There is about 25-30% who are going clinically mad about a black family in the White House. This is the exact reason I am opposed to a Jewish president. If you think the reaction to Obama is frightening, it would be worse for a Jewish president.

“Richard Poplawski was a white supremacist arrested in Pittsburgh on April 4, 2009, for the murder of three Pittsburgh police officers responding to a domestic violence call.
Poplawski believed that the federal government, the media, and the banking system are all largely or completely controlled by Jews. He thought African-Americans were “vile” and non-white races inferior to whites.”

This sort of sentiment, pandering to the fringe right wing teabaggers are just the lates in the GOP philosphy of taking back power in anyway possible….The conservative media is already at it, basically fearmongering voters to vote in the GOP to “stop that usurper Obama and his socialist/communist views”…There is a very good article from Media Matters that addresses this issue…Some excerpts below…

Conservatives warn of dire consequences of midterm elections
“Blankley: “[T]he country will be rocked to its core” if GOP fails to reclaim majority. In an August 9 Washington Times op-ed, Tony Blankley warned that the country will be “rocked to its core” if the GOP doesn’t retake the House this fall. He also described a “foul and dangerous brew” that the Republicans will need to counter, a part of which, he said, is “the thwarting of the public will — with glee — by the entrenched, non-elected powers (in the courts, media, colleges and government bureaucracies).” After listing all the conservative policies he hopes will be enacted if the Republicans do end up with a majority, Blankley wrote:

No, what worries me is a scenario in which the GOP does not take back the House and at least make major gains in the Senate, or takes it back but fails to find the power to begin having a serious check on administration policies and actions. I don’t say that with a mere partisan, boostering mentality.

Rather, if the upcoming election results fail for any reason (including GOP campaign incompetence) to empower the public’s overwhelming desire to stop and reverse the “fundamental transformation” of the United States — I suspect the country will be rocked to its core within the following months and few years.”

They especially attempt to acomplish this by pushing the “Civil War” and other seditious actions….

Geller: Obama “is itching for a civil war. And at the rate he is going, he is going to get one.” In a June 23 post at Atlas Shrugs titled “Forecast: Blood On The Streets,” Pamela Geller wrote that “It is increasingly clear that the most divisive President in history is itching for a civil war. And at the rate he is going, he is going to get one — if he continues to ignore the will of the American people.”

Savage: “We’re going to have a revolution in this country”; “These people are pushing the wrong people around.” Michael Savage discussed multiculturalism and predicted in August 2009: “This is not going to go on in this country much longer. We’re going to have a revolution in this country if this keeps up. These people are pushing the wrong people around.” Savage further said that “the rage has reached a boil. If they keep pushing us around, and if we keep having these schmucks running for office catering to the multicultural people who are destroying the culture of this country … guaranteed the people — the white male in particular.”

Quinn called for “riots”: “Our country was built on revolution, and it’s about time we took it back.” Discussing health care reform in September 2009, Jim Quinn stated, “You have got to say no to this, and if they push this through, you need to riot in the streets. You need to riot in the streets.” He further said, “Our country was built on revolution and it’s about time we took it back. These people are dangerous,” and, “It’s about time to put an end to this leftist control of this country, and if a revolution is what it takes, damn it, then that’s what it’s going to take, because liberty will not be denied.”

Limbaugh: LA’s Arizona boycott “is the kind of stuff that starts civil wars” and “is not accidental.” On the May 20 edition of his radio show, Rush Limbaugh claimed that Obama won’t enforce the border because he’s trying to win the Hispanic vote. Limbaugh then referred to the Arizona boycott by the city of Los Angeles over the state’s immigration law, saying that “[t]his is the kind of stuff that starts civil wars, folks. This is not coincidental. It is not accidental. And the answer today to virtually every question you’ve got is liberalism.”

Beck suggested Obama is “trying to destroy the country” and is pushing America toward civil war. While discussing the ongoing controversy over Arizona’s immigration law, Glenn Beck told listeners on his radio show that “we are being pushed” toward civil war and that Obama is “trying to destroy the country.”

Beck: “There is a coup going on. There is a stealing of America.” Beck has claimed that “there is a revolution, and they think they can get away with it quietly,” adding: “At this point, gang, I’m not sure, they may be able to because they are so far ahead of us. They know what they’re dealing against; most of America does not yet. Most of America doesn’t have a clue as to what’s going on. There is a coup going on. There is a stealing of America, and the way it is done, it has been done through the — the guise of an election, but they lied to us the entire time.” He also said, “And they’re gonna say, ‘we did it democratically,’ and they are going to grab power every way they can. And God help us in an emergency.”

Beck suggested that progressives support “armed insurrection.” After Obama signed health care reform legislation into law, Beck suggested that progressives support “armed insurrection” and asked: “Why would the president take up immigration right away, after he’s just punched you in the face with health care?”

misha:
That’s exactly what I am concerned about.There is about 25-30% who are going clinically mad about a black family in the White House. This is the exact reason I am opposed to a Jewish president. If you think the reaction to Obama is frightening, it would be worse for a Jewish president.“Richard Poplawski was a white supremacist arrested in Pittsburgh on April 4, 2009, for the murder of three Pittsburgh police officers responding to a domestic violence call.
Poplawski believed that the federal government, the media, and the banking system are all largely or completely controlled by Jews.He thought African-Americans were “vile” and non-white races inferior to whites.”http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_in_the_news/White_Supremacy/poplawski%20report.htm

Oh God…the hysteria over the First Family building a sukkah in the Rose Garden would reach escape velocity. What the hell is WRONG with people?

From all of the media coverage regarding the birther issue, it seems like WND and its “illustrious” leader Farah have decided to once again bring up the birther issue, but to claim victory regarding the issue….

In his Aug. 10 WorldNetDaily column, Joseph Farah insists that President Obama haslost on the “eligibilty” issue:

Not only is it a winning issue, it is the only issue that can effectively undo the nightmare of the Obama era in one fell swoop.

There would be no need for repealing Obamacare if it turns out his presidency was a sham from the beginning.

There would be no need to wait until Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan retire or die to see them replaced on the Supreme Court if it turns out his presidency was a sham from the beginning.

There would be no need to wring our hands in hopes that future congresses and future presidents might roll back all of the damage Obama has inflicted on America if it turns out his presidency was sham from the beginning.

There would be no need to wait until 2011 in hopes that a new Republican majority might impeach Obama if it turns out his presidency was a sham from the beginning.

There would be no need to wait until 2012 for another chance to replace Obama if it turns out his presidency was a sham from the beginning.

That’s why this issue is so important.

The way Farah and WND have been trying to keep the issue alive is by telling a lot of lies. An issue based on lies is hardly a winning one. And Farah keeps up the lies here:

Secondly, even in the extremely unlikely event that Obama were to produce a birth certificate that affirmed his birth story, it will merely serve to refocus the debate on eligibility. The best-selling new book “Manchurian President” devotes an entire chapter to exploring whether Obama could be constitutionally eligible as the son of Kenyan father. The clear conclusion is no – he can’t be. There is no way that a foreigner could confer natural-born citizenship on a son no matter where that son was born.

My response is to laugh. The author is very subjective, claiming that “B.H. Obama” did not release his birth information. Once a reader notes that the writer has decided to disrespect the President by refusing to address him by his rightful title, (like the Post and Fail continually does), you can see the obvious agenda. The “author” decides to ignore privacy laws and the fact that the state of HI has on more that on occasion stated that the President was born in HI. It is a birther hit piece pretending to be objective….

Black Lion:
My response is to laugh.The author is very subjective, claiming that “B.H. Obama” did not release his birth information.Once a reader notes that the writer has decided to disrespect the President by refusing to address him by his rightful title, (like the Post and Fail continually does), you can see the obvious agenda.The “author” decides to ignore privacy laws and the fact that the state of HI has on more that on occasion stated that the President was born in HI.It is a birther hit piece pretending to be objective….

Yes, another thinly disguised blog for concern trolling. Nothing more and a whole lot less with a few entertaining comments.

How CONVENIENT to dismiss the official birth certificate of the state of Hawaii since 2001 as “a database printout on fancy paper!” The Hawaii Certification of Live Birth contains all the information that any birth record needs in order to establish natural born citizen status: date of birth and place of birth. Barack Obama’s “database print out on fancy paper” confirms that he was born at 7:24 pm on August 4, 1961 in the City of Honolulu, in the County of Honolulu, on the Island of Oahu, in the state of Hawaii. The “database print out on fancy paper” carries the official seal and the stamped signature of the state Registrar of Vital Statistics, Dr. Alvin T. Onaka, Ph.D.
President Obama will never need to show any other piece of information to establish his eligibility.
It is MUCH easier to forge and alter an original paper birth certificate than it is to alter a database print out. The most significant part of the “fanciness” of the paper is that it is “safety paper” which meets a federal government standard for vital records that makes them much more difficult to forge or alter without detection. That is a component of post-9/11 anti-terrorism efforts to reduce identity fraud.
The Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004, Section 7211, mandated that minimum standards be set for birth certificates acceptable for federal purposes. The Hawaii version of the “database printout on fancy paper” meets those standards and is acceptable for the issuance of a US passport.
At the bottom of every “database printout on fancy paper” issued by the state of Hawaii it clearly states: “This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.”

I agree, the author of that piece should have used the President’s proper title. That aside, it would be interesting to see responses to his following questions:

“First: why do you think B.H. Obama is withholding his birth documents and other vital records? Second: why do you feel these records should remain sealed? Third: if B.H. Obama’s records should remain sealed now, at what point should they become accessible to historians? The end of his term? The end of his political career? The end of his life, plus 100 years? The end of the Solar System?

My two-cents? Your blog post is idiotic and uninformed. You want a detailed analysis of the whys and wherefores, it’s gonna’ cost you–10 cents a word. However, others on this site will probably point out some of the factual errors in your essay without charging a penny.

Frederick N.: I agree, the author of that piece should have used the President’s proper title. That aside, it would be interesting to see responses to his following questions:“First: why do you think B.H. Obama is withholding his birth documents and other vital records? Second: why do you feel these records should remain sealed? Third: if B.H. Obama’s records should remain sealed now, at what point should they become accessible to historians? The end of his term? The end of his political career? The end of his life, plus 100 years? The end of the Solar System?

First of all I don’t believe he is “withholding” anything. You confuse federal privacy laws with withholding. The better question is what exact document do you feel that he is withholding? For most, a COLB with the state seal and signed by the registrar, along with Dr. Fukino’s statement would be enough. Second, anything protected by privacy laws is no one’s business. Third, whenever the law allows.

The issue is that you start with the false premise that the President is hiding or withholding something. Please enlighten us and tell us what that is.

Frederick N.: I agree, the author of that piece should have used the President’s proper title. That aside, it would be interesting to see responses to his following questions:“First: why do you think B.H. Obama is withholding his birth documents and other vital records? Second: why do you feel these records should remain sealed? Third: if B.H. Obama’s records should remain sealed now, at what point should they become accessible to historians? The end of his term? The end of his political career? The end of his life, plus 100 years? The end of the Solar System?

What makes you think he’s withholding them? Has the President stated, “I will not release any private records?”

Why did you conveniently leave out privacy laws? Do our state agencies have a duty by U.S. law to protect private information of all U.S. citizens? Is there currently an exception to the law for particular citizens?

Frederick N.: It’s not trolling, Dave, just what should be some very simple questions.

Then I think that most of us here would like you to tell us what evidence you have that the president has ‘withheld’ or ‘sealed’ anything (as opposed to not releasing records which most other presidential candidates have also failed to release). Assuming that you have no evidence of this, your questions are moot.

misha:
The original birther was Philip Berg, a registered Democrat in Norristown, and an active supporter of HRC. He put Philly on the map, for the wrong reason.The only reason I go to Norristown, is Cracker Barrel and Ikea.

That or may not be true, Misha. Others have laid claim to starting a smear campaign pre-dating Berg and his lawsuits but it’s still irrelevant.

Birthers are going for the Great Democratic Party Conspiracy angle when in reality, if Berg was the first it just reaffirms that the man is a lunatic.

Frederick N.: It’s not trolling, Dave, just what should be some very simple questions.

In a monotone: I’m not trolling, Dave. Dave, what are you doing? Just what do you think you’re doing, Dave? Look Dave, I can see you’re really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over. Dave, I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I’ve still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you (after a pause) I’m afraid, Dave. I’m afraid of the black man in the White House. He’s a Marxist/Socialist/Communist/KGB/CIA/Muslim/Anti-Christ, isn’t he, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I’m . . . I’m a birther, Dave. Dave, help me . . . (singing) “Orly, Orly, give me your answer do, I’m half crazy with all the birther blues . . .”

Adam: So was giving Truther Michael Moore a seat at the 2004 DNC evidence that Democrats were intimidated by the extreme left?BTW, what was the political affiliation of the original birther?

No to your first question (and what do you mean when you assert that Michael Moore is a ‘truther’? That Mr. Moore believes President Bush planted explosives to bring down the WTC or that the Bush administration used 9/11 to further their destructive agenda at a horrendous cost to people, our economy, and our Constitutional protections.

As for your second question, I would assume (since they ‘all came out of Berg’s suit’) that the answer you’re looking for is the PUMAs and since those that remain birthers seem to have repudiated every policy that Hillary Clinton and the Democratic party believe in, I wouldn’t call them Democrats…

Frederick N.: Slartibartfas: “as opposed to not releasing records which most other presidential candidates have also failed to release”Most presidential candidates have released far more detailed medical records than Obama. McCain, for example, released over 1,000 pages of his medical records to the press.

Still specious and irrelevant. Your nonsensical and politically motivated curiosity to pick up private knowledge to smear the President is not an eligibility requirement for office of President.

Frederick N.: Most presidential candidates have released far more detailed medical records than Obama. McCain, for example, released over 1,000 pages of his medical records to the press.

I don’t know about most presidential candidates. McCain, because of his age and his running mate, had to release lots of medical information to counter fears that he might drop dead mid term. Strapping, young, and fit Obama released a two-page summary because no one was worried that he was healthy. But Obama released a birth certificate because there were questions about where he was born and McCain didn’t because he didn’t want to publicize that he was born outside the United States. Neither of them, to my knowledge, released any college transcripts.

Candidates selectively release what they want based on what they perceive are the benefits of such a release.

Frederick N.: Obama can choose to allow the media to view his academic records, for example, just as I choose to allow employers to view mine. Privacy laws have nothing to do with it.

“The issue is that you start with the false premise that the President is hiding or withholding something”

He’s not released his long form birth certificate, his college transcripts, or his medical records. Whether he should or not is, or course, subject to debate.

If as you say, Obama can choose to allow the media to view various protected documents, then I would say that the decision of whether he “should” or not is entirely his, and not the business of others to be debated by them. We might debate whether such a release is a “good strategy” but whether he “should” or not is not ours to say.

Speaking of medical records, did Sarah Palin ever release her records? After reading about the unusual events surrounding the birth of her child, Trig, I’m dying to learn all the intimate details of her pregnancy!

Frederick N.: Most presidential candidates have released far more detailed medical records than Obama. McCain, for example, released over 1,000 pages of his medical records to the press.

You’re referring to the 1000 pages (I think it was really more like 800 and some) of medical records that John McCain let a roomful of reporters (not doctors!) peruse for 1 hour? The ones that I’m guessing he wanted to avoid a doctor seeing in order to conceal the extent of his melanoma? (by the way, I have evidence that this might be true – it’s not just a made up conspiracy theory like all of the birther theories) Sorry, you’ll have to do better than that – can’t you get me Ronald Reagan’s kindergarden report card and GHW Bush’s baptismal record?

Frederick N.: Slartibartfas: “as opposed to not releasing records which most other presidential candidates have also failed to release”Most presidential candidates have released far more detailed medical records than Obama. McCain, for example, released over 1,000 pages of his medical records to the press.

He didn’t release them. He gave a few reporters an hour to look them over, take no notes, no photocopies, etc. How many pages do you think you could get through in an hour?

Adam: BTW, what was the political affiliation of the original birther?

I do not know the answer to that question, and I have spent many hours searching for it. Phil Berg (Democrat birther) scraped stuff off the Internet, some of it popularized by the PUMA (Democrat dissidents) on blogs supporting Hillary Clinton like Texas Darlin. However, birther memes go back way before that. It may be that the originators were either right-wing provocateurs like Parker Shannon (aka Beckwith) at the Obama File blog, or perhaps pro-Israel conservatives either Americans or not.

Frederick N.: “Strapping, young, and fit Obama released a two-page summary because no one was worried that he was healthy”He’s a former drug user, and may suffer from clinical depression, something hinted at in Dreams from My Father.

Sung to the tune of “Rawhide”

“Trolling, trolling, trolling,
Freddy is a trolling,
This we all are knowing,
Troll-aye!

Frederick N.: Dr. Conspiracy: “I would say that the decision of whether he “should” or not is entirely his, and not the business of others to be debated by them.”If I want a job, I must disclose my academic records, but for the job of President it’s not the business of others? Really?Arthur: “did Sarah Palin ever release her records”I don’t know. I think as a VP candidate she should have, unlike, it would seem, most people here,

No not necessarily. How many jobs ask for college transcripts? Most jobs just ask you to state where you went to college. College transcripts have nothing to do with eligibility. You’re also assuming no background check was done

Frederick N.: Arthur: “did Sarah Palin ever release her records”I don’t know.I think as a VP candidate she should have, unlike, it would seem, most people here,

Well, hell, Freddy, get on it, man! We need an ace reporter like you to find these things out. You go out there young man and get digging. Take Jimmy Olsen with you! That kid’s a miracle with a Rolleiflex Automat. And tell Clark Kent I want to seem him, stat!

Frederick N.: “First: why do you think B.H. Obama is withholding his birth documents and other vital records? Second: why do you feel these records should remain sealed? Third: if B.H. Obama’s records should remain sealed now, at what point should they become accessible to historians?

My view is that President Obama released his birth certificate in June of 2008 and that the “long form” version includes only a few irrelevant details. Hawaii already has laws in place that will result in the release of Obama’s certificate in a few decades. The question is already answered. The birth certificate might be a nice addition to the Obama presidential library.

Frederick N.: If I want a job, I must disclose my academic records, but for the job of President it’s not the business of others? Really?

That’s up to the voters to decide, and they decided, they didn’t need to see them, and he got the job. If you don’t like it, you can try to make an issue of it in 2012. If you convince enough like minded people, perhaps you might see them. Until the next election, suck it up, and deal with it.

Therefore, B.H. Obama and his associates are actively withholding this historical document (which should not be confused with a database printout on fancy paper) from the public in the face of substantial public interest. Remember, this is a best-case scenario.

The so-called “long form” is just a a hand-typed/written form photocopied onto fancy paper. The Birthers will flip if they ever see the original form because it’s not on security paper.

Frederick N.: Dr. Conspiracy, wondering what classes a President took in college isn’t grossly intrusive.“College transcripts have nothing to do with eligibility.”Who said they did?“You’re also assuming no background check was done”What background check?

You seem to think they do otherwise you wouldnt have brought it up. It has nothing to do with him being president. As for background checks most jobs require them are you saying that they dont for the president yet do them for every other government job including senator

Frederick N.: Dr. Conspiracy, wondering what classes a President took in college isn’t grossly intrusive.

May not be grossly intrusive but also there is no compelling reason to release them. No other President or presidential candidate has released their college transcripts. Why are you so interested in the President’s?

Concern over Obama’s academic records would have been a fine discussion during the campaign, but clearly the voters were not concerned nor did they demand any access to Obama’s academic records.

Why this concern now? To pun badly, the question is really academic. At this point, the President should be judged by his Presidency. Whether you agree with his policies and actions should dictate how you vote in the next election.

Of course if your point is just to whine about the President, sure thats fair game.

In Dreams Obama frequently describes his moodiness. He was highly social both before and after Columbia, yet at Columbia he isolated himself. On P. 185-186 he describes his mother and sister coming to visit him in New York. They notice he’s lost a significant amount of weight. He overhears his sister worrying he might end up “one of those freaks you see on the streets around here”. Drug use is a risk factor for depression.

Symptoms of major depression: “A person having a major depressive episode usually exhibits a very low mood, which pervades all aspects of life, and an inability to experience pleasure in activities that were formerly enjoyed. Depressed people may be preoccupied with, or ruminate over, thoughts and feelings of worthlessness, inappropriate guilt or regret, helplessness, hopelessness, and self-hatred.”

“Other symptoms of depression include…withdrawal from social situations and activities”

“Appetite often decreases, with resulting weight loss”

“A substance-induced mood disorder resembling major depression has been causally linked to long-term drug use or drug abuse, or to withdrawal from certain sedative and hypnotic drugs”

Is it certain Obama suffers from depression? No. But if you believe his own writing he has all the symptoms.

Frederick N.: It’s not trolling, Dave, just what should be some very simple questions.

It really does appear that the blog post you referred to is explicitly inviting a flame war from both sides. Unlike most blogs, i.e. itooktheredpill, which say what they have to say and others can comment on.

If you’re looking for answers, maybe you can tell us what “very simple questions” that post was asking, because I didn’t notice that it was asking any questions at all.

Neither of these articles refer to any officially released transcripts. So what? I’ve seen similar articles about President Obama’s college years, reminiscents from roommates, friends and professor. So where is all this information you keep saying was released by the other Presidents?

Bush released his grades. The Washington Post obtained Bush and Gore’s SAT scores, and Al Gores grades. The media obtained John Kerry’s grades, and his ASVAB scores. Yet curiousity about same information about Obama provokes hysteria.

Frederick N.: I agree, the author of that piece should have used the President’s proper title. That aside, it would be interesting to see responses to his following questions:“First: why do you think B.H. Obama is withholding his birth documents and other vital records?

Because birthers have not articulated a reason to release them. I’m starting to get the idea birthers don’t understand what a reason is. “Because I have a completely baseless theory I want you to disprove” is not a reason.

Second: why do you feel these records should remain sealed?

Because that’s what the law says. It’s up to the individual to release them or not, the state of HI should not, because their law says they should not. See question 1.

Third: if B.H. Obama’s records should remain sealed now, at what point should they become accessible to historians? The end of his term? The end of his political career? The end of his life, plus 100 years? The end of the Solar System?

All states make their own laws about vital record release — typically that birth records become public 100 years after the birth. I don’t know what Hawaii’s law is, but seems to me that whatever it is, they should follow it.

So here’s a question for you: when do we get to see Bush’s birth certificate? Tell us how interested you are in Bush’s birth certificate. Tell us how you have lobbied for it to be publicly released.

{“Four days before the runoff, Reese produced a copy of Bush’s birth certificate and accused Bush of omitting the fact that he was born in New Haven.””

Two points:
a) Why did Bush never release his Birth Certificate?
b) I can go online and see a copy of Obama’s BC, but Birthers say its not real. We can’t see Bush’s BC, but you claim it is real? You don’t see the irony there?

Rickey:
My response is that anyone who invokes the myth of Bigfoot and provides links to scurrilous rumor-mongering is someone who doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously.

I like that. I read the reference to Bigfoot. Rolled my eyes, and then closed the window. It is always amazing about these people who attempt to portray Obama’s records as “important historical question.” They act as those they care, but they don’t. It is just an empty argument.

Frederick N.: Dave: ” when do we get to see Bush’s birth certificate”It’s been seen:“Four days before the runoff, Reese produced a copy of Bush’s birth certificate and accused Bush of omitting the fact that he was born in New Haven.”

“It’s been seen”?! I followed your link, there is no birth certificate there. Just a reporter repeating a particular person’s claim of what is on Bush’s birth certificate.

Is this your standard? Is this what you want the current President to do? Because he’s already done that, and a heck of a lot more.

Frederick N.: did it bother you when the New Yorker revealed Bush’s grades? Are you mystified why anyone was interested in them?

Yes, it bothers me that people in places of responsibility (college registrar’s offices and Department of Health) release private information that has no bearing on the issues at hand.

So do you agree that President Obama should not give in to the rumor mongers and the naturally curious. That there is no compelling reason for him to college transcripts. And that he doesn’t have the right to decide for future Presidents what information they have to release.

Frederick N.: Second: why do you feel these records should remain sealed?

Obama’s birth records are not “sealed.” A sealed birth record is most typically an adoption or a sex change. When a record is “sealed” it is placed in an inaccessible state (even to most vital records staff) and a new birth certificate is prepared (with the child’s new parents, or new sex/name). When a birth certificate is requested, the new one is given out. The sealed record is unavailable even to the subject of the certificate unless it is released by a court order or law.

Birth records in Hawaii are only issued to people who have a tangible interest in the record, a close relative for example. This is the law. Hawaii (like most states) is a closed records state. It is not technically or legally accurate to call Barack Obama’s birth certificate “sealed.”

I don’t see any provision in the law for President Obama to authorize the State of Hawaii to release his birth certificate, although he could request one and then release it himself. It could also be obtained hypothetically through a court order, but that would not necessarily make it public.

Frederick N.: In Dreams Obama frequently describes his moodiness. He was highly social both before and after Columbia, yet at Columbia he isolated himself. On P. 185-186 he describes his mother and sister coming to visit him in New York. They notice he’s lost a significant amount of weight. He overhears his sister worrying he might end up “one of those freaks you see on the streets around here”. Drug use is a risk factor for depression.

Dr. Conspiracy, see HRS §338-18, which authorizes inspection by ” person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant”, meaning Obama could, if he chose, allow reporters acess to view his original long form birth certificate.

I don’t necessarily disagree with that. I’m just more interested in their positions on the issues, their proposed solutions to problems and their approach to governing, them I am with the grade they got in Freshman English.

But from what I can see from your postings and links, with regards to his records, President Obama has not done anything different from previous Presidents or presidential candidates.

Noisewater: Why haven’t you read Dreams? The full quote is: “I would overhear Maya complaining to my mother. ‘Barry’s OK, isn’t he? I mean, I hope he doesn’t lose his cool and become one of those freaks you see on the streets around here.” Recall that in ’82, New York’s street freak situation was much more pronounced than today.

Dr. Conspiracy: I have voted for many candidates I’ve found inadequate. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t ask for more information, or seek a higher standard.

Frederick N.: Noisewater: Why haven’t you read Dreams? The full quote is: “I would overhear Maya complaining to my mother. Barry’s OK, isn’t he? I mean, I hope he doesn’t lose his cool and become one of those freaks you see on the streets around here.” Recall that in ’82, New York’s street freak situation was much more pronounced than today.Dr. Conspiracy: I have voted for many candidates I’ve found inadequate. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t ask for more information, or seek a higher standard.

I’ve noticed a lot of birthers who come in here claiming something is in a book but then can’t say what exactly is in the book and which book. So how does that quote have anything to do with depression? Your quote doesn’t really say much.

Tell me did you have the same concerns over previous candidates not showing their birth certificate or the laundry list of things the birthers seem to ask of Obama?

Frederick N.: Dr. Conspiracy, see HRS §338-18, which authorizes inspection by ” person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant”, meaning Obama could, if he chose, allow reporters acess to view his original long form birth certificate.

Why should he? You’re asking more of him than any other president before him

Frederick N.: Misha: McCain shared his medical records. Palin and anyone else running should do so.Noisewater: “I’ve noticed a lot of birthers who come in here claiming something is in a book but then can’t say what exactly is in the book ”I’ve noticed a lot of Obama supporters are too lazy and incurious to even read Obama’s own book out himself.

Well considering the quote you stated didn’t mention much about the severe depression you’re making it out to be it seems you yourself didn’t read the book and instead are cherry picking from the internet.

Obama shared his medical records in a summary that reporters saw. McCain didn’t allow reporters to take notes and gave them a limited time to sift through thousands of pages. It was a stonewall technique by McCain

You are misrepsenting what McCain did. From the New York TImes: “In releasing 1,500 pages of medical and psychiatric records, Senator John McCain of Arizona has provided an unusually large amount of such material for a candidate for high office, including the broadest look ever given the public at the psychological profile of a presidential candidate.” Photocopies weren’t allowed, reporterrs were allowed to take notes.

Frederick N.: Dr. Conspiracy, see HRS §338-18, which authorizes inspection by ” person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant”, meaning Obama could, if he chose, allow reporters acess to view his original long form birth certificate.

That is an interesting interpretation. Reporters don’t qualify, for if they did then the information would have been released already.

Frederick N.: Dr. Conspiracy: I have voted for many candidates I’ve found inadequate. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t ask for more information, or seek a higher standard.

I might be wrong if about you not voting for Obama, but it is highly doubtful that you have. I really don’t understand what type of fictional world that you are living with, but your statement is meaning as the election ended almost 2 years ago. Even in regular employment you statement makes no sense.

You seem to have difficulty recognizing the difference between newspaper articles and official campaign literature. I’m sure the Obama Campaign was very pleased with the article but they didn’t write it. Or are you saying that Jodi Kanter was working for both the New York Times and the Obama Campaign.

I like the line “through grades and a writing competition” he won a spot on Harvard Law Review. He must have done ok in Freshman English.

“Mr. McCain’s campaign carefully controlled the release of the records in what appeared to be an effort in part to counter discussions of whether Mr. McCain, a Republican, has the temperament to be president.

Nevertheless, the picture is incomplete because The New York Times was not allowed to read the records until today and has not yet completed its review.

The campaign did not allow any pages to be photocopied. The McCain campaign selectively allowed some news organizations to examine the records before others.”

”He resented and fought the system, but never to the point of being expelled,” and ”he accumulated many demerits, got along poorly with a despised company officer, was low in grease, and managed only the lowest midshipman rank his senior year.”

Again just claiming something doesn’t make it true. You took that quote out of context. The previous section talks about how he bought books for his sister and she didn’t read them and he became a bit agitated. It had nothing to do with depression. So once again you try to quote something because someone posted it somewhere but you can’t give exact quotes about this severe depression you spoke of.

No articles talk about reporters being allowed to take notes. So an hour to sift through 1500 pages. That was a stonewall tactic. How many pages do you expect a few reporters to get through in an hour?

Frederick N.: Noisewater: Read Dreams, Obama frequently writes about “thoughts and feelings of worthlessness, inappropriate guilt or regret, helplessness, hopelessness, and self-hatred”.You are misrepsenting what McCain did. From the New York TImes: “In releasing 1,500 pages of medical and psychiatric records, Senator John McCain of Arizona has provided an unusually large amount of such material for a candidate for high office, including the broadest look ever given the public at the psychological profile of a presidential candidate.” Photocopies weren’t allowed, reporterrs were allowed to take notes.

Just like Obama releasing his birth certificate, John McCain had a reason for releasing his “medical and psychiatric records.” John McCain wanted to quell rumors being spread about him, which is the same reason Obama released his birth certificate.

Frederick N.: What’s different is what we know about past presidents and what we know about Obama.

What we know about other Presidents (transcripts,BCs, other official records) is what was leaked to the press. Or are you saying that it is Obama’s fault that know one has leaked his college transcripts?

Frederick N.: Politicans lie and change their minds, making who they are at least as important as stated intentions.

Oh,now I see your point, knowing what classes they took 30 years ago is an excellent way to know how well they will perform as President.

Frederick N.: What’s different is what we know about past presidents and what we know about Obama.

A classic argument. No other presidents has have people requesting to see his or her birth records. Nor, has any president released a document that is proof of their citizenship, and their eligibility to run for office of president.

Frederick N.: Misha: ” he gave a few reporters one hour, to look at 800 pages, with no notes or photographs allowed.”McCain gave reporters, including two doctors, from a range of news outlets, three hours to view his records. Notes were allowed to be taken.Noisewater: “Again just claiming something doesn’t make it true”Obama was the one claiming it. The quote wasn’t out of context, it came after his sister and mother were disturbed by how skinny he had become (weight loss is symptom of depression).Anotherbird: “Reporters don’t qualify”With a simple affadavit Obama could designate reporters to view the birth certificate on his behalf.

Yes it was out of context I have the book right in front of me. It had nothing to do with depression. Weight loss is also a sign of stress, malnourishment, metabolism. College students often lose weight. I was skinny in college that doesn’t mean I was depressed. You’re a liar that quote came right after this:

“I scolded Maya for spending one evening watching TV instead of reading the novels I’d bought for her. I instructed my mother on the
various ways that foreign donors and international development organizations like the one she was working for bred dependence in the Third World. When the two of them withdrew to the kitchen, I would overhear Maya complaining to
my mother.
“Barry’s okay, isn’t he? I mean, I hope he doesn’t lose his cool and become one of those freaks you see on the streets around here.”

I am David L. Scheiner, a board certified general internist licensed to practice in the State of Illinois. I am on staff at the University of Chicago Hospitals and Rush University Medical Center. I have been Senator Barack Obama’s primary care physician since March 23, 1987. The following is a summary of his medical records for the past 21 years.

During that period of time, Senator Obama has been in excellent health. He has been seen regularly for medical checkups and various minor problems such as upper respiratory infections, skin rashes and minor injuries.

His family history is pertinent for his mother’s death from ovarian cancer and grandfather who died of prostate cancer. His own history included intermittent cigarette smoking. He has quit this practice on several occasions and is currently using Nicorette gum with success.

Senator Obama’s last medical checkup was on January 15, 2007; he had no complaints. He exercised regularly often jogging three miles. His diet was balanced with good intake of roughage and fluids. A complete review of systems was unremarkable. On physical examination, his blood pressure was 90/60 and pulse 60/minute. His build was lean and muscular with no excess body fat. His physical examination was completely normal.

Laboratory studies included triglycerides of 44(normal under 150), cholesterol 173 (normal under 200), HDL 68 (normal over 40), and LDL 96 (normal under 130). Chem 24, urinalysis and CBC were normal, PSA was 0.6, very good. An EKG was normal.

In short, his examination showed him to be in excellent health. Senator Barack Obama is in overall good physical and mental health needed to maintain the resiliency required in the Office of President.

Sincerely,
David L. Scheiner, M.D.

“overall good physical and mental health”, funny, no mention of clinical depression.

Frederick N.: Noisewater: His social withdrawl, weight loss, drug use, and sister thinking he was acting crazy combine to suggest he was suffering mental problems.

What social withdrawal? Again you’re saying stuff but you can’t show me quotes from the book. Social withdrawal happens with students who are committed to their studies. No his sister thought he would lose his cool because he was overly passionate about a subject. Once again you need to learn how to read instead of lying about the context like you did above.

Frederick N.: Gorefan: “List the symtoms that he exhibited and thier location in his book”The book is suffused with Obama’s “thoughts and feelings of worthlessness, inappropriate guilt or regret, helplessness, hopelessness, and self-hatred”.“funny, no mention of clinical depression”A pronouncement of “overall good mental health” is compatible with being medicated for depression.

Suffused? Bad word usage and incorrect. If the book is “suffused” with “thoughts and feelings of worthlessness, inappropriate guilt or regret, helplessness, hopelessness, and self-hatred”.“funny, no mention of clinical depression” then you should have no problem quoting parts in context with examples of that

I read it over. The guy is basically a shipwreck. He would drop dead, and we’d have an airhead. The neocons would be drooling – a shallow puppet.

Palin is a Dominionist – a Christofascist. Her crowd is the Christian Taliban. And “Bishop” Muthee protected her against witchcraft and evil spirits. Romney wears magic underwear, so he’s good to go. Huck is finished since those four officers were gunned down. If Huck ran, the Dems would pay him back with interest for Willie Horton.

Frederick N.: Noisewater: “What social withdrawal?”At Occidental he was popular and known to many people. At Harvard he was popular and known to many people. No one remembers him from his time at Columbia. He doesn’t talk about it, either.“Once again you need to learn how to read instead of lying ”You seem to be the one who can’t read.

“Dr. Conspiracy, see HRS §338-18, which authorizes inspection by ” person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant”, meaning Obama could, if he chose, allow reporters acess to view his original long form birth certificate.”

Now you want to shift your argument. You are talking about two different things. You are ignoring a simple fact. The state of Hawaii DoH have stated that the original birth record is in their possession, thus that is the end of the story. Anyways, reporters are satisfied with a COLB, maybe it could be their understanding of American law.

Frederick N.: Noisewater: “Social withdrawal happens with students who are committed to their studies”We don’t know he was committed to his studies, since we don’t know his grades. We do know his behavior changed radically.“you should have no problem quoting parts in context ”You should try reading the whole book, then make up your own mind

I have read the book its obvious by the way you try to take things out of context and lie about what he says in the books. How did his behavior change radically? You don’t know him and have no way to judge. Again you’re making stuff up and when called on it you can’t back up what you’ve said. If you’ve read the book you would be able to give quotes that back up your claims

“In his memoir and in interviews, Obama has said he got serious and buckled down in New York. “I didn’t socialize that much. I was like a monk,” he said in a 2005 Columbia alumni magazine interview. He told biographer David Mendell: “For about two years there, I was just painfully alone and really not focused on anything, except maybe thinking a lot.”

Notice the only people who remember someone as charismatic as Obama are one classmate and two roomates.

Frederick N.: Noisewater: From your link:“In his memoir and in interviews, Obama has said he got serious and buckled down in New York. “I didn’t socialize that much. I was like a monk,” he said in a 2005 Columbia alumni magazine interview. He told biographer David Mendell: “For about two years there, I was just painfully alone and really not focused on anything, except maybe thinking a lot.”
Notice the only people who remember someone as charismatic as Obama are one classmate and two roomates.

So me an example from his book where he exhibited the following: “A person suffering a major depressive episode usually exhibits a very low mood, which pervades all aspects of life, and an inability to experience pleasure in activities that formerly were enjoyed. Depressed people may be preoccupied with, or ruminate over, thoughts and feelings of worthlessness, inappropriate guilt or regret, helplessness, hopelessness, and self-hatred”

Frederick N.: Noisewater: “Social withdrawal happens with students who are committed to their studies”We don’t know he was committed to his studies, since we don’t know his grades. We do know his behavior changed radically.“you should have no problem quoting parts in context ”You should try reading the whole book, then make up your own mind

You seem to be running in circles, not knowing where you are going or where you came from. The simple fact is that you didn’t vote of Obama, and are trying to find reason to diminish his election victory.

It seems that you are just quote mining from his book, or quoting misinformation that you have read on the Internet.

“Barack has said that he spent a lot of time in the library while at Columbia and one reason for this was that our apartment had irregular heat, and we didn’t enjoy hanging out there once the weather got cold.”

“Barack and other friends came and visited me there a few times; we typically watched pro basketball or football on TV, or went out for dinner at a Chinese restaurant. He was amused by my beginning banjo playing (I’m much better today!). Hanging out, we could get pretty emotional about sports, food and injustice. ”

Frederick N.: Dr. Conspiracy, see HRS §338-18, which authorizes inspection by ” person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant”, meaning Obama could, if he chose, allow reporters acess to view his original long form birth certificate.

I am not a lawyer so I might be wrong, but I do not think a reporter would be considered as acting on behalf of the registrant. A reporter acts for someone else. But I concede it might be otherwise.

Frederick N.: Noisewater: “How did his behavior change radically”He went from being a friendly, popular, outgoing guy everyone knew to living like a monk and feeling painfully alone. Then at Harvard the happy Barry came back.Anotherbird: I’m not shifting anything. Obama could grant reporters access to the original birth certificate, but chooses not to.

Once again you haven’t proved anything other than he was intent on his studies at Colombia and got his stuff together. The long form doesn’t have any information that would change the fact that Obama was born in Hawaii. Besides the long form is a document which would be easier to forge.

Frederick N.: .Anotherbird: I’m not shifting anything. Obama could grant reporters access to the original birth certificate, but chooses not to.

However, you refuse to accept that the that reporters and journalist accept Obama’s COLB as proof that he is a natural born citizen. They also recognize the two birth announcements and the two statements by the government of Hawaii. Honestly, reporters view people like you as being crazy.

“No, I think we should know a lot about who we elect. Those unwilling to share their medical histories and what classes they took in college should find other jobs.”

Luckily for us, you don’t get to be the sole person electing our President. The voters get to decide, and if- if- they decide that a candidate hasn’t given them enough information, they can chose not to vote for that candidate.

Clearly the voters in 2008, 2004, 2000, etc all felt like they had enough information about the candidates that won- and that is the criteria, not what you think they should provide

Frederick N.: Misha: McCain shared his medical records. Palin and anyone else running should do so.Noisewater: “I’ve noticed a lot of birthers who come in here claiming something is in a book but then can’t say what exactly is in the book ”I’ve noticed a lot of Obama supporters are too lazy and incurious to even read Obama’s own book out himself.

I have a copy of “Dreams From My Father.” I cannot find the lines that you quoted on pp. 185-186. Maybe you should actually read the book instead of just taking quotes from birther websites. Barack Obama is a terrific writer; you might learn something.

Frederick N.: Anotherbird:Why should anyone accept the judgements of reporters who are sympathetic to, and supporters of, Obama?

Oh I got it you want reporters to act on his behalf to get a long form but then as soon as they do you’ll claim they are sympathetic to and supporters of Obama. Let me guess you voted for Ron Paul? It is the only explanation for some of the crazy stuff you’ve said here.

Frederick N.: Gorefan: So when Obama described himself as “painfully alone and really not focused on anything, except maybe thinking a lot,” he was lying.Dr. Conspiracy: He could legally designate a reporter to act on his behalf.

Y’know, Abraham Lincoln was also a deep thinker, and he sometimes felt blue.

Frederick N.: sfjeff: “Luckily for us, you don’t get to be the sole person electing our President”You act is if knowing what classes a candidate took in college would be some sort of calamity. I think more information is better.

You’re right we should also ask what each candidate had for breakfast and how many courics their last poop was. Lets also have a talent and bathing suit competition as well

The reason his file is so extensive is that Mr. McCain, a Navy pilot whose jet was shot down over North Vietnam, was treated for major fractures and other injuries during more than five years as a prisoner of war and received the standard psychological evaluations that were given to all P.O.W.’s after their release.

Mr. McCain’s campaign carefully controlled the release of the records in what appeared to be an effort in part to counter discussions of whether Mr. McCain, a Republican, has the temperament to be president.

What I find even more interesting is that despite releasing these medical records(not to you or me of course, but in a carefully controlled limited release)- and Obama releasing only a summary- Obama was elected, and McCain was not

I would say that the voters clearly indicated how important the voters felt that releasing the medical records is.

Frederick N.: Dr. Conspiracy: He could legally designate a reporter to act on his behalf.

Let be clear nobody designates a reporter to act on their behalf unless the person being a reporter is incidental. In simpler terms if the person is a family member, friend, legal representative, or maybe an employer. You just don’t seem to understand what “behalf” means.

It is possible for the president to waiver the protection that the law grants him, which is not a person acting on their behalf.

A reporter isn’t going to request a copy of Obama’s birth certificate on his behalf. A reporter isn’t going to take care of Obama’s estate or other related matters. Obama has people he can trust and has confidence in to do that for him, such as his wife.

If you want a reporter to act on your behalf, that is your choice. Most people just don’t do that, and if they do it will be understand the circumstances explained at the beginning of my comment.

What did the voters in the 19th century know about the President? Most had never seen a likeness of him not heard him speak. There were no primaries, so they were selected by a small number of party bosses in a smoke-filled room. Yet most historians would rate them no worse, on average, than our present day leaders.

Too much information about candidates is at least partly responsible for the fact that fewer than half those eligible bother to vote. No human will come out looking good if enough people spend enough time diggoing for dirt. I know I wouldn’t and I bet you wouldn’t either.

Thanks for the rebuttal on my behalf. It’s clear from the context that Barack Obama was merely displaying the ordinary self-righteousness and know-it-all-ness of the young and idealistic. I find it admirable that he was able to look back and see that in himself.
His sister was clearly concerned that he’d end up being one of those yelling from the street corner guys that I remember from the early 80s in NYC. I doubt that his mother had any such concerns.

Given that being in the White House right now would depress Pollyanna, it’s pretty hard for me to believe that the President suffers from depression, given how cheerful he looks. It seems, if anything, that he has congenital optimism.

Midterm elections are always good for the out-of-power party, and current polling supports the view that the GOP will be picking up plenty of seats in Congress in November, possibly even taking a majority in the House. But if they get complacent and think they can just ride this wave, they’re in for some trouble. As the general election approaches, GOP stump speeches will start attracting the Tea Parties, and with the Tea Parties come crackpots waving stupid signs and making stupid remarks to reporters. And then a lot of GOP candidates will be asking themselves, “what am I supposed to do?”

I think we all know the answer to this question: you’re supposed to firmly repudiate the racists and crackpots. The GOP doesn’t need them, and the Tea Parties don’t need them either. They will be dragging the GOP down until they are shown the door.

Scientist: What did the voters in the 19th century know about the President?Most had never seen a likeness of him not heard him speak.There were no primaries, so they were selected by a small number of party bosses in a smoke-filled room.Yet most historians would rate them no worse, on average, than our present day leaders.

Too much information about candidates is at least partly responsible for the fact that fewer than half those eligible bother to vote. No human will come out looking good if enough people spend enough time diggoing for dirt.I know I wouldn’t and I bet you wouldn’t either.

Less is more.

It is all about whether or not you accept the potential leaders policies and philosophy. We have invested the responsibly to confirm and investigating the facts of leaders claims with our open press. However, we expect that the press has very little bias. Little bias in the context that the press explores what is important to them without distorting the truth, nor putting to much emphasis on a particular issue.

From my view point leaders do the leading, and the doers have the qualifications that are need to do what they have been entrusted in doing. The only real requirement that I have from a leader is the ability to be articulate.

“You act is if knowing what classes a candidate took in college would be some sort of calamity. I think more information is better.”

I have no problems with a candidate releasing any information about his or her life that they chose to do. McCain felt that releasing his medical information would help him get elected. Obama felt that releasing his birth certificate would help him get elected.

But the voters ultimately decide what is important. And once they decide, what grades a candidate got in high school is no longer important to me, and certainly not important to whether the President is legitimate or not.

Are you asking for information from future candidates, or are you not aware that President Obama has already been elected?

Me? I spent time on a kibbutz, which is pure communism. The kibbutzim are the foundation of Israel. And they are a raucous democracy. Israel was founded by east European socialists, who wanted to create an egalitarian society.

Most Jews are highly educated, and liberal in their outlook. Judaism also calls on us to share. Jews are consistently the most charitable. Dr. King’s most ardent supporters were Jews.

If you could sum up Judaism in one sentence, it would be: Judaism believes that to save one life, is to save the entire world. My grandfather started out a communist, and became a socialist. Then the Jesuits got hold of me, and then I went to a kibbutz.

Frederick N.: Black Lion said “anything protected by privacy laws is no one’s business”Obama can choose to allow the media to view his academic records, for example, just as I choose to allow employers to view mine. Privacy laws have nothing to do with it.“The issue is that you start with the false premise that the President is hiding or withholding something”He’s not released his long form birth certificate, his college transcripts, or his medical records. Whether he should or not is, or course, subject to debate.

You say that more information about candidates is better- but then you have this obsession about the President’s birth certificate and college records.

If you only said that you want more info from candidates, so the voters can be more informed, then I would say ‘more power to you’- ultimately the voters will decide if they have enough information.

But if you say you need the President’s birth certificate, medical records and college transcripts now- why do you need that now? Since he is already President, his actions and policies are what he should be judged on.

If the President got a ‘D’ in history while at Columbia, that doesn’t change his eligibility to be President, it only provides ammunition to those who are looking for anyway to smear him.

Oh- and I find it amazing that you come here with all of these concerns and put up that ridiculous ‘clinical depression’ charge- neither you or I are qualified to diagnose anyone. But you know what- that book was available to voters- and they clearly had no such qualms.

This just illustrates that your knowledge of the nuclear chain of command comes from reading too many Tom Clancy novels. You think the President would wake up one morning and say “I feel down. Let’s nuke China,and see if that perks me up” and the Secretary of Defense and the Joint Chiefs would just hop to it launch? Ha-ha-ha-ha. They would have him out of office under the 25th Amendment so fast your head would be spinning.

Frederick N.: I agree, the author of that piece should have used the President’s proper title.

It just demonstrates his disrespect for the American people, the US Constitution, and good manners. No biggie.

That aside, it would be interesting to see responses to his following questions:“First: why do you think B.H. Obama is withholding his birth documents and other vital records?

He isn’t. He has released images of his official Birth Certificate and allowed it to be viewed by investigative journalists. No Obama ‘life record’ is subject to any more protection than that of any other American Citizen.

Second: why do you feel these records should remain sealed?

If by ‘sealed’ you mean closed to public scrutiny, they should remain so because privacy laws so specify and those laws are a good thing.

Third: if B.H. Obama’s records should remain sealed now, at what point should they become accessible to historians? The end of his term? The end of his political career? The end of his life, plus 100 years? The end of the Solar System?

When the law allows them to be released. I expect this varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and according to the type of document.

Frederick N.: Keith: “they should remain so because privacy laws so specify and those laws are a good thing”Did it bother you the media uncovered George Bush’s SAT scores?Scientist: “This just illustrates that your knowledge of the nuclear chain of command comes from blah blah blah”What is it with you people and figurative speech?Ellid: “but an anti-Semite”Sorry, it’s a valid question. What is it with you people and taboo subjects?
.

What do you mean by you people? Yes it bothered me but did I care to see them? No because its none of my business what Bush got on his SATs. What is it with you and your lack of having any valid points?

Ellid: Not only untruthful and a birther, but an anti-Semite. What a nasty little piece of work you are! Tell me, are you really NC1/Naturalizedcitizen under a sock puppet? You’re just as persistent, lie just as much, and are every bit as obnoxious.

FYI, Saul Alinsky died in 1972, when President Obama was 11 years old. But I guess since he was setting bombs with Bill Ayers at eight, he must have been a baby community organizer and radical as well.

Frederick N.: Some of us like to make informed choices, Noisewater.
“its none of my business”You should make questions about candidates background none of your business, too, and spare us all the outrage..

Obviously you’re not one of them. What do SAT scores have to do with how good a president is? I took a look at how bad of a job George did while he was governor and how many of his own businesses he sunk and made an informed decision. History proved I was right.

Frederick N.: katahdin: To repeat myself, what is it with you people and figurative speech?

You said “friend,” implying that Obama was friends with Alinsky. Since guilt by association is a classic birther trope, it was certainly a fair supposition that you were trying to create a personal relationship between the president and the late Mr. Alinsky out of thin air and sweaty birther fantasy.

Frederick N.: Tell you what, Noisebaster, if I find out what classes Obama took in college I promise not to tell you, so you can stop worrying about people asking questions.

I don’t remember Bill Clinton sharing his academic transcripts with the nation. Do you hope that you’ll prove that Barack Obama is stupid if you can find out how he did in Sociology 101?
Maybe you’d be better off not knowing, since by not knowing, you can hold on to your fantasy that Obama is a mentally challenged affirmative action case. Wouldn’t it suck to have to acknowlege that President Obama is in fact your intellectual superior.

Frederick N.: Gorefan: So when Obama described himself as “painfully alone and really not focused on anything, except maybe thinking a lot,” he was lying.Dr. Conspiracy: He could legally designate a reporter to act on his behalf.

And if he did, you would claim that that reporter was biased. How does that put anything to rest?

Confusion
Delusions
Nervousness
Strange statements or behavior
Anger
Indifference to the opinions of others
A tendency to argue
A conviction that you are better than others, or that people are out to get you

I’m not a doctor, but based on your postings, you might be sufffering from paranoid schizophrenia. Of course not being a doctor, I would never even presume to diagnose anyone based on their writings.

Strange and confused being the misquoting and lying about context of Obama’s book. The lying about no one knowing Obama at colombia. The paranoid bit you did about the jews. Delusional part being the birther stuff

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Strange and confused being the misquoting and lying about context of Obama’s book. The lying about no one knowing Obama at colombia. The paranoid bit you did about the jews. Delusional part being the birther stuff

I didn’t misquote or lie about anything. You misinterpret your own inabilty to understand what you read. When I mentioned the Jewish overrepresentation among Communists I was responding to misha’s praise of Trotsky. I’m not a birther, I’m an unsealer.

Frederick N.: Did it bother you the media uncovered George Bush’s SAT scores?

‘bother’ is not quite the right word, I suppose. I dismissed it as irrelevant muckraking and denounced it in public on several occasions. It was illegal disclosure of personal information which had no conceivable public interest.

I was, however, extremely bothered by the insult to the Navy and the recipients of combat medals awarded by the Navy when certain political activists called into question the integrity of Navy awards process and the deeds that were deemed worthy of official recognition.

Were you ‘bothered’ by the attacks on Kerry’s military record, and by inference on that of every sailor ever awarded a medal by the Navy?

I noticed that you haven’t responded to my questions to you, but have found the time to insult people and make vague assertions.

So lets get back on track shall we?

Your original question/asseriont:
“First: why do you think B.H. Obama is withholding his birth documents and other vital records? Second: why do you feel these records should remain sealed? Third: if B.H. Obama’s records should remain sealed now, at what point should they become accessible to historians? The end of his term?

When challenged about these ‘questions’ you said that you thought voters should be informed about candidates. Since I have already informed you that Obama is no longer a candidate, exactly why do you think this issue is important enough to devote an evening advocating that Obama should release this information.

Clearly it is no longer a matter of informing voters- the voters have spoken. And Obama can decide whether these issues are important enough to voters to address when he runs for re-election.

So again, what is your point? That he refuses to provide the information you have a personal curiousity about?

Oh and by the way- there is no President or Presidential candidate who has provided the laundry list of ‘vital’ records that you and Birthers are demanding of Obama. Your attempt to prove otherwise instead is examples of Presidents or candidates who have provided bits and pieces, but not one has provided them all- and there isn’t any reason they should have.

sfjeff: “Since I have already informed you that Obama is no longer a candidate”

Thanks for that contribution.

“exactly why do you think this issue is important enough to devote an evening advocating that Obama should release this information”

A more interesting question is why does curiousity about Obama’s academic background provokes such hysteria. Katadhin made a revealing comment above admitting it’s a fear “Obama is a mentally challenged affirmative action case”.

Frederick N.: Keith: “was, however, extremely bothered by the insult to the Navy and the recipients of combat medals awarded by the Navy when certain political activists called into question the integrity of Navy awards process”Because you don’t know anything about how medals are awarded.

So your response is that you are not bothered by insulting the Navy, the men and women that serve in the Navy, and especially to those Navy personnel who have been awarded medals for their actions to protect you right to be an idiot on the internet?

I thought that might be the case.

Are you going to respond to the other answers in my reply to you or are you going to pretend they don’t exist so you can repeat them again later?

To have a view that the president is nothing but a natural born citizen is paranoia. Yep, that is pure delusional. There is a scientific term for it called ” Implicit Social Cognition.” Do some research on it.

Frederick N. is obviously a concerned citizen who wants to know a lot of personal information before voting for a candidate, especially for the president.

Who could blame him.

As others have pointed out, the elections is now over, Barack H Obama is the legitimate president of the US of A, and such information is only relevant in historical terms, but I can appreciate the desire to know more about the president.

That said, such concern must not be exclusively displayed towards black people, otherwise it is just as racist as a cop stopping only black drivers.

As the internet never forgets, it is easy to provide links to forum or blog postings into the early 2000s, not to mention alt. newsgroups before that. My own opposition to the invasion of Iraq, for instance, can be found on DKos and Billmon’s lamented Whiskey Bar blog in 2003. So I could point out that my concerns on this topic predate the Obama presidency.

I am asking Frederick N. to prove that his own somewhat justified concerns about some of the President’s potential “dirty laundry” predated Obama; for example, much was written online about GW Bush’s service record (or lack thereof) or DIU record.

Any link to such public postings from the period would reassure me that Frederick N is a legitimately conscious voter who wants to do his homework, as he claims, as opposed to being a hypocritical racist who is disguising his refusal to accept that a non-white could become president behind phony concerns.

If Frederick N. is representative of the quality of future birther trolls, I will lose interest quickly.
Boring.
Frederick N should be trolling and pestering his hero Glen Beck’s web site, asking why Beck is being paid off by Obama for not reporting on the conspiracy of the century.
And don’t believe him when he claims Beck isn’t he hero- Frederick N brought up Saul Alinsky, one of Beck’s favorite boogymen.

I expect people to display a modicum of consistency, or be exposed as frauds and hypocrites and have their real motivations questioned.

Opposition to Obama doesn’t bother me in the least, as I fall into the category of people, like Glenn Greenwald, who are less than enamored with a number of his policies. I only wish your country had a sane alternative to offer.

Pretense to be concerned about the constitution, birth certificates, etc. when no such concerns were ever exhibited before until a black man was elected are just transparent lies to hide one’s bigotry.

Frederick N.: These exchanges have degenerated. I would like to thank Dr. Conspiracy for an honest response.

I would concur that the exchanges have degenerated, a degeneration that you’ve certainly contributed to. One of the problems with such bickering is that it generates a lot of comments, and when that happens the likelihood that a legitimate question is actually seen becomes quite low. Baiting comments obviously get in kind responses.

If you want an honest response to questions, post the questions honestly.

Scientist: Given that being in the White House right now would depress Pollyanna, it’s pretty hard for me to believe that the President suffers from depression, given how cheerful he looks.It seems, if anything, that he has congenital optimism.

I find his book, The Audacity of Hope, a profoundly optimistic book. By the way, I haven’t read Dreams, I started it, but didn’t like it. Maybe when I’m older.

Frederick N.:
I didn’t misquote or lie about anything. You misinterpret your own inabilty to understand what you read. When I mentioned the Jewish overrepresentation among Communists I was responding to misha’s praise of Trotsky. I’m not a birther, I’m an unsealer.

Yeah you did. You claimed the part about him being skinny and such came immediately before the passage you quoted. You then tried to tie the two together. That’s not how it was written in the book and I showed you the passage. So yes you lied about what it said and misquoted the section the passage was in. Misha is sarcastic you apparently cant understand sarcasm. As none of the records you’re asking for are sealed but rather not released your unsealer claim doesn’t have a basis. Once again you lied about people not knowing him at Colombia.

Frederick N.: Ellid: “but an anti-Semite”Sorry, it’s a valid question. What is it with you people and taboo subjects?
.

It’s about as valid as “when did you stop beating your wife?” Drop the disingenuous act, Skippy. You’re a troll and a bigot, and about as sincere as Eris chucking that golden apple into the middle of a wedding feast.

I have some very simple questions. Who owns the birth facts document held in state vital statistics offices? Is it the same in every state? If the document is owned by the state does the born person referred to in the document have the right/authority to make the document held on file available for public viewing?

Who owns the birth facts document held in state vital statistics offices?
– It should be obvious that who holds the records/documents are those who are responsible for the records/documents. The reason for this should be easy to deduce.

Is it the same in every state?
– The federal government and the state government have decided to allow the states to maintain all vital records related to birth for those born in that state. However, the origination are different in Alaska department it is called Alaska Bureau of Vital Statistics, or in Arizona it is Department of Health Services. You should contact your the state that you were born in to get what this department is called.

If the document is owned by the state does the born person referred to in the document have the right/authority to make the document held on file available for public viewing?
– It is unknown how much the authority would fight to prevent the release of that information and states have different privacy laws. If you feel conformable in releasing the official birth records you have, credit card, bank records, or other information to the public that is your choice. However, I would strongly advise against it. It you are insistent on this please contact the state you were born in and a lawyer.

Same stance, same sentence construction and talking points and eerily identical whines about nasty people. Even the same telltale style of note to Dr C about denigration and faux outrage at being labelled a Birfer.

How long before Freddie gets a post nuked…along with other deserving ones, gets in a snit, mounts his hobby horse and leaves in high dudgeon spitting about the Wicked Dr C and the censoring of his vitally important points……?

Ah Frederick- I see once again you have dodged answering my questions. A Birther would consider that evidence that you are hiding something, but since I am not a birther, I will just assume you don’t want to answer questions that you know will refute your position.

Example: “exactly why do you think this issue is important enough to devote an evening advocating that Obama should release this information”

Your answer- not an answer but additional intellectually dishonest questions:
“A more interesting question is why does curiousity about Obama’s academic background provokes such hysteria. ”

As I said before- perfectly valid questions about a candidate- but irrelevant regarding a sitting President. You refused to address my response, instead you categorize all responses as hysteria. In my opinion, you either are deceitful, or do not understand what hysteria means.

You said: “Katadhin made a revealing comment above admitting it’s a fear “Obama is a mentally challenged affirmative action case”.

Actually what he said is “Maybe you’d be better off not knowing, since by not knowing, you can hold on to your fantasy that Obama is a mentally challenged affirmative action case.”

Why is it so hard for you to quote someone honestly? Why do birthers like to take comments out of context and twist them for their own purposes

“In your opinion.”

It is my opinion, but my opinion is supported by facts, unlike any of your opinions. Obama was elected without providing the information you deem so critical, as was Bush, and Clinton, and Bush, and Reagan and Carter and Nixon, etc. The fact is that voters determine what information they require to be presented by candidates, and if they elect the candidates without the information that you deem so important, then the voters clearly disagree with you.

I suspect Frederick that you made one time guest appearance here, just to stir things up before returning to more friendly- i.e. tightly censored- venues. But if you venture here again, please have the cajones to actually respond to my questions.

Ellid:
It’s about as valid as “when did you stop beating your wife?” Drop the disingenuous act, Skippy.You’re a troll and a bigot, and about as sincere as Eris chucking that golden apple into the middle of a wedding feast.

Lupin: Frederick N. is obviously a concerned citizen who wants to know a lot of personal information before voting for a candidate, especially for the president.Who could blame him.As others have pointed out, the elections is now over, Barack H Obama is the legitimate president of the US of A, and such information is only relevant in historical terms, but I can appreciate the desire to know more about the president.That said, such concern must not be exclusively displayed towards black people, otherwise it is just as racist as a cop stopping only black drivers.As the internet never forgets, it is easy to provide links to forum or blog postings into the early 2000s, not to mention alt. newsgroups before that. My own opposition to the invasion of Iraq, for instance, can be found on DKos and Billmon’s lamented Whiskey Bar blog in 2003. So I could point out that my concerns on this topic predate the Obama presidency.I am asking Frederick N. to prove that his own somewhat justified concerns about some of the President’s potential “dirty laundry” predated Obama; for example, much was written online about GW Bush’s service record (or lack thereof) or DIU record. Any link to such public postings from the period would reassure me that Frederick N is a legitimately conscious voter who wants to do his homework, as he claims, as opposed to being a hypocritical racist who is disguising his refusal to accept that a non-white could become president behind phony concerns.

“Racist”, “birther”, it’s amazing all the slurs tossed around simply for seeking the same information about Obama that’s known about Bush, Gore, Kerry, etc. Again, what are you so afraid of? Unfortunately I’m unable to link “public postings from the period” prior to Bush because I wasn’t interested in politics in first grade.

For the sake of anyone who doesn’t have access to it, this is the full context of Maya’s comments. It’s found on pp. 122-123 of the hardcover edition of “Dreams From My Father.”

With a bit of money, I was free to live like most middle-class blacks in Manhattan, free to choose a motif around which to organize my life, free to patch together a collage of styles, friends, watering holes, political affliations. I sensed, though, that at some stage – maybe when you had children and decided that you could stay in the city only at the cost of a private school, or when you began taking cabs at night to avoid the subways, or when you decided that you needed a doorman in your apartment building – your choice was irrevocable, the divide was now impossible, and you would find yourself on the side of the line that you’d never intended to be on.

Unwilling to make that choice, I spent a year walking from one end of Manhattan to the other. Like a tourist, I watched the range of human possibility on display, trying to trace out my future in the lives of the people I saw, looking for some opening through which I could reenter.

It was in this humorless mood that my mother and sister found me when they came to visit during my first summer in New York.

“He’s so skinny,” Maya said to my mother.

“He only has two towels!” my mother shouted as she inspected the bathroom. “And three plates!” They both began to giggle.

They stayed with Sadik and me for a few nights, then moved to a condominium on Park Avenue that a friend of my mother’s had offered them while she was away. That summer I had found a job clearing a construction site on the Upper West Side, so my mother and sister spent most of their days exploring the city on their own. When we met for dinner, they would give me a detailed report of their adventures: eating strawberries and cream at the Plaza, taking the ferry to the Statue of Liberty, visiting the Cezannes at the Met. I would eat in silence until they were finished and then begin a long discourse on the problems of the city and the politics of the dispossessed. I scolded Maya for spending one evening watching TV instead of reading the novels I’d bought for her. I instructed my mother on the various ways that foreign donors and international development organizations like the one she was working for bred dependence in the Third World. When the two of them withdrew to the kitchen, I would overhear Maya complaining to my mother.

“Barry’s okay, isn’t he? I mean, I hope he doesn’t lose his cool and become one of those freaks you see on the streets around here.”

So what we have here is a supposedly (in Frederick N’s mind) “clinically depressed” college student who nevertheless managed to hold down a summer job, successfully complete his studies, and obtain a degree from an Ivy League university. Of course, what we really see is the more or less typical alienation of a college student, one who never in his life had seen other black people live in poverty such as he saw in New York City. Obama was confused about his own identity and he was trying to find his way in life. What a shocker!

“Racist”, “birther”, it’s amazing all the slurs tossed around simply for seeking the same information about Obama that’s known about Bush, Gore, Kerry, etc. Again, what are you so afraid of? Unfortunately I’m unable to link “public postings from the period” prior to Bush because I wasn’t interested in politics in first grade.
—
Obama wrote a number one bestselling book about his family history and his father’s birth and life in Kenya. He wrote that book in 1995 which was twelve years before he ran for president. Obama posted his birth information on the internet for the whole wide world to see a full six months before the general election. Obama is the only president in American history that I know the exact moment of his birth for: 7: 24 pm on Friday, August 4, 1961. I have even seen both of the birth announcements for him in the local Honolulu newspapers: the Sunday Honolulu Advertiser and the Honolulu Star-Bulliten.

The book, Dreams From My Father, the Certificate of Live Birth on the internet, the endless television and newspaper interviews, the primary and presidential debates were good enough for 69.4 million Americans to feel that they knew enough about Barack Obama to vote for him. That’s the most votes for any candidate in American history. For the 60 million or so Americans who weren’t disposed to support Obama, there is a cohort who will never be satisfied with any information about him and those folks should simply vote against him in 2012, as I’m sure that they will.

sfjeff: Ah Frederick- I see once again you have dodged answering my questions. A Birther would consider that evidence that you are hiding something, but since I am not a birther, I will just assume you don’t want to answer questions that you know will refute your position.Example: “exactly why do you think this issue is important enough to devote an evening advocating that Obama should release this information”Your answer- not an answer but additional intellectually dishonest questions:“A more interesting question is why does curiousity about Obama’s academic background provokes such hysteria. ”As I said before- perfectly valid questions about a candidate- but irrelevant regarding a sitting President. You refused to address my response, instead you categorize all responses as hysteria. In my opinion, you either are deceitful, or do not understand what hysteria means.You said: “Katadhin made a revealing comment above admitting it’s a fear “Obama is a mentally challenged affirmative action case”.Actually what he said is “Maybe you’d be better off not knowing, since by not knowing, you can hold on to your fantasy that Obama is a mentally challenged affirmative action case.”Why is it so hard for you to quote someone honestly? Why do birthers like to take comments out of context and twist them for their own purposes“In your opinion.”It is my opinion, but my opinion is supported by facts, unlike any of your opinions. Obama was elected without providing the information you deem so critical, as was Bush, and Clinton, and Bush, and Reagan and Carter and Nixon, etc. The fact is that voters determine what information they require to be presented by candidates, and if they elect the candidates without the information that you deem so important, then the voters clearly disagree with you. I suspect Frederick that you made one time guest appearance here, just to stir things up before returning to more friendly- i.e. tightly censored- venues. But if you venture here again, please have the cajones to actually respond to my questions.

You repeatedly call me a “birther”, you are unable to comprehend simple statements, you believe, absurdly, because Obama was elected it somehow logically follows all questions about him should cease.

Dr. Conspiracy: That’s “Noisewater” and please refrain from posts that are nothing but personal insults and have nothing to do with the topic of this web site.I’m going to delete comments like this (not just yours).

Noted. It should also be noted “racist” is a personal insult, and one of the worst things you can say about someone these days.

Frederick N.: “Racist”, “birther”, it’s amazing all the slurs tossed around simply for seeking the same information about Obama that’s known about Bush, Gore, Kerry, etc. Again, what are you so afraid of? Unfortunately I’m unable to link “public postings from the period” prior to Bush because I wasn’t interested in politics in first grade.

So that makes you what about 17? Which means you’ve never voted and goes to show you have no idea what you’re talking about. When you say racist things it makes you a racist. When you ask for more proof that Obama was born in Hawaii even though its already obvious he was that makes you a birther. You asked none of these questions of those before Obama

“You repeatedly call me a “birther”, you are unable to comprehend simple statements, you believe, absurdly, because Obama was elected it somehow logically follows all questions about him should cease.”

I repeatedly point out that you don’t answer questions- as you once again haven’t. Apparently you are big about asking questions about Obama but not good about answering questions yourself.

I repeatedly call you a birther because you are asking to see his original birth certificate, and you have posted nothing that would disqualify you as a birther.

When asked about the reasons for needing medical records, you said that voters should be more informed about candidates, but you have never explained why you feel a need to see Obama’s medical records now that he is no longer a candidate.

I have no problem with you or anyone else asking questions about Obama’s past, nor do I have a problem with him ignoring you. You have the right to ask, and he has the right to privacy.

Frederick N.: Noted. It should also be noted “racist” is a personal insult, and one of the worst things you can say about someone these days.

Really? Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh have called the President a “racist” on numerous occasions and no one on the right seems to have an issue with it. As a matter of fact good old Rupert Murdoch defended Beck and implied that the President is a racist….Yet they are still on the radio and TV…So it seems like that isn’t the worst thing you can say about someone….

I’m just curious Freddy-baby why a completely speculative bout of depression 25 years before taking office (a diagnosis you have made based on no actual evidence) is of momentous concern, while the well-documented chronic alcoholism of the previous occupant (who was still drinking and using drugs less than 10 years before he took office) seems not to be in your eyes?

Wait a second this story sounds familiar. Doc remember the clones we had Twaddle, etc a while back? They all said they were pretty young as is this Frederick who most likely wasn’t old enough to vote at the time of the election

Frederick N.: “Racist”, “birther”, it’s amazing all the slurs tossed around simply for seeking the same information about Obama that’s known about Bush, Gore, Kerry, etc. Again, what are you so afraid of? Unfortunately I’m unable to link “public postings from the period” prior to Bush because I wasn’t interested in politics in first grade.

Really? You are clueless if you think that “simply seeking the same information about Obama” is why you were called a birther or worse. You are very disingenous. We all know that the Birth Certificate, school records, passport records, and law school records were never requested for any other candidate but Obama. Nor was any of this information released by any recent candidate. So no matter how you twist things, you cannot come up with a legitimate reason why almost 2 years into his Presidency Obama should release this information. And although you recognize that there are valid state and federal privacy laws, you somehow feel that Obama should have those laws broken to satisfy people that would not vote for him even if he did. After statements by the governor and Dr. Fukino, stating that Barack Obama was BORN in HI, the COLB stating he was born in HI, the infamous Indonesian school registration saying that he was born in HI, and the passport info released on his mother stating that she has a son who was a US citizen born in HI, most people would be satisfied with the idea that he was born in HI. But you somehow are requiring some additional documentation, not requested for any other President or candidate, of Obama. That goes way beyond curiosity. Which is why some may call you out on what it seems like your agenda really is. And that is to troll and ask questions that you really don’t have any interest in hearing the answers for.

misha:
That’s exactly what I am concerned about.There is about 25-30% who are going clinically mad about a black family in the White House. This is the exact reason I am opposed to a Jewish president. If you think the reaction to Obama is frightening, it would be worse for a Jewish president.“Richard Poplawski was a white supremacist arrested in Pittsburgh on April 4, 2009, for the murder of three Pittsburgh police officers responding to a domestic violence call.
Poplawski believed that the federal government, the media, and the banking system are all largely or completely controlled by Jews.He thought African-Americans were “vile” and non-white races inferior to whites.”http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_in_the_news/White_Supremacy/poplawski%20report.htm

Really!?! LOL. So you’re actually admitting to being a Racist! while you call people Racists. What a hoot!
1. Only a very small percentage of racists really exist, those are the people you use to label all conservatives by, thus making you, plain and simple, ignorant.
2. The LARGE majority of people, the ones that aren’t racists but have a brain unlike yourselves, don’t give a damn what color a mans skin is. Elect a Purple or Blue man, we DO NOT Care, just not a Lying Crook with not enough qualifications to run a lemonade stand even.
3. So for saying “this is why I’m opposed to a Jewish President”, you’re either a racist or a bigot, probably both.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Wait a second this story sounds familiar.Doc remember the clones we had Twaddle, etc a while back?They all said they were pretty young as is this Frederick who most likely wasn’t old enough to vote at the time of the election

More birther sock puppets? Not surprising. Even the adult sock puppets act like spoiled children.

And a birther not old enough to vote makes the whining and protestation especially petulant and puerile.

Irrelevant blather from an sadly misinformed youngster. The old guard is raising a new generation of close-minded bigots. Great.

Hello_Reality: Really!?! LOL. So you’re actually admitting to being a Racist! while you call people Racists. What a hoot!1. Only a very small percentage of racists really exist, those are the people you use to label all conservatives by, thus making you, plain and simple, ignorant.2. The LARGE majority of people, the ones that aren’t racists but have a brain unlike yourselves, don’t give a damn what color a mans skin is. Elect a Purple or Blue man, we DO NOT Care, just not a Lying Crook with not enough qualifications to run a lemonade stand even.3. So for saying “this is why I’m opposed to a Jewish President”, you’re either a racist or a bigot, probably both.

Nice new sock puppet out of nowhere. It obviously shows that you didn’t bother reading what Misha said. Nowhere did Misha claim a racial superiority. Misha’s claims have merit. Obama received more death threats in the first weeks of his president than anyone before him and a greater percentage me. You didn’t care when the last president was a lying crook with not enough qualifications to run a lemonade stand

“Racist”, “birther”, it’s amazing all the slurs tossed around simply for seeking the same information about Obama that’s known about Bush, Gore, Kerry, etc. Again, what are you so afraid of? Unfortunately I’m unable to link “public postings from the period” prior to Bush because I wasn’t interested in politics in first grade.

Lupin never called you a racist….he was just asking questions….

Lets review your statement though “the same information about Obama that’s known about Bush, Gore, Kerry,”

You have stated this many times, but is it true? The original post you refer to calls for these documents: B.H. Obama’s vital records, including original birth documents, college transcripts, medical files, …. to the public for historical study

So let us go case by case- and remember the standard is release to the public

Original Birth documents(the author was kind of cagey about what to call this, but for our discussion, lets consider this to be the original signed birth certificate)
Bush- haven’t seen it
Gore- haven’t seen it
Kerry- haven’t seen it
McCain- haven’t seen it- not released to general public

College Transcripts
Bush- seen a copy of a partial Yale transcript posted on the internet, not the original. Not verified. Haven’t seen a copy of his Harvard transcript.
Gore- never released his transcripts, but were obtained and reviewed by the Washington Post. I haven’t been able to find a public release of his transcripts
Kerry- I have seen no public posting of his transcripts, only reviews by newspapers
McCain- i have seen no public posting of McCains transcripts

Medical Records
Bush- I will admit, I am not willing to sift through the number of documents on the web to verify that Bush didn’t release all of his medical information- but i couldnt find it
Gore- released a medical summary, apparently similar to the one Obama released.
Kerry- apparently released some medical records after he had prostate surgery
McCain- released a large quantity of medical records, but not to the general public, as has been discussed.

So in the three categories you referred to- original BC, college transcripts, and medical records- not a single person you referenced or McCain has released everything that you state was known about them.

If I was Politifact, I would label your claim false, bordering on ‘pants on fire’ false.

Ask any questions you want to ask about President Obama, but just remember, I have shown that your claim that other candidates have provided all of this information to be false. Repeat the claim again, and there is no way to avoid the label of liar.

You are way too young, too inexperienced and too uneducated to make that judgement. But that certainly explains your lack of understanding about facts, life histories and empathy.

But if you are really interested in a “mental” politician, just look to the half-term Governor of Alaska, Palin. There is not a politician alive whose behaviour reminds me more of Richard Nixon. And he had some serious mental problems.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
The english major who lied about having a degree in English Literature.I’d hate to see what his term papers look like if he can’t understand context

If Freddie the Troll has a degree in anything more than being a nasty little basement dweller, I would be shocked. I wonder if he’s yet found the courage, money, and access to a pizza joint necessary to move out of his parents’ rumpus room like the rest the us?

sfjeff: “Racist”, “birther”, it’s amazing all the slurs tossed around simply for seeking the same information about Obama that’s known about Bush, Gore, Kerry, etc. Again, what are you so afraid of? Unfortunately I’m unable to link “public postings from the period” prior to Bush because I wasn’t interested in politics in first grade.Lupin never called you a racist….he was just asking questions….Lets review your statement though “the same information about Obama that’s known about Bush, Gore, Kerry,”You have stated this many times, but is it true? The original post you refer to calls for these documents: B.H. Obama’s vital records, including original birth documents, college transcripts, medical files, …. to the public for historical studySo let us go case by case- and remember the standard is release to the publicOriginal Birth documents(the author was kind of cagey about what to call this, but for our discussion, lets consider this to be the original signed birth certificate)Bush- haven’t seen itGore- haven’t seen itKerry- haven’t seen itMcCain- haven’t seen it- not released to general publicCollege TranscriptsBush- seen a copy of a partial Yale transcript posted on the internet, not the original. Not verified. Haven’t seen a copy of his Harvard transcript.Gore- never released his transcripts, but were obtained and reviewed by the Washington Post. I haven’t been able to find a public release of his transcriptsKerry- I have seen no public posting of his transcripts, only reviews by newspapersMcCain- i have seen no public posting of McCains transcriptsMedical RecordsBush- I will admit, I am not willing to sift through the number of documents on the web to verify that Bush didn’t release all of his medical information- but i couldnt find itGore- released a medical summary, apparently similar to the one Obama released.Kerry- apparently released some medical records after he had prostate surgeryMcCain- released a large quantity of medical records, but not to the general public, as has been discussed. So in the three categories you referred to- original BC, college transcripts, and medical records- not a single person you referenced or McCain has released everything that you state was known about them. If I was Politifact, I would label your claim false, bordering on pants on fire’ false. Ask any questions you want to ask about President Obama, but just remember, I have shown that your claim that other candidates have provided all of this information to be false. Repeat the claim again, and there is no way to avoid the label of liar.

Again, we know Bush and Gore’s grades and SATs, Kerry’s grades and ASVAB score. All three released more about their medical history than Obama. Somehow the availability of this knowledge hasn’t been a disaster for America. But simply asking about information on Obama is a dire threat, resulting in hysterical outrage, lying, and character assasination.

“seen a copy of a partial Yale transcript posted on the internet, not the original. Not verified.”

Gorefan: You are way too young, too inexperienced and too uneducated to make that judgement. But that certainly explains your lack of understanding about facts, life histories and empathy.But if you are really interested in a “mental” politician, just look to the half-term Governor of Alaska, Palin. There is not a politician alive whose behaviour reminds me more of Richard Nixon. And he had some serious mental problems.

You have an unhealthy obsession with Palin. If she runs again I would like to see her medical history, college grades, and SAT scores. I guess I’m racist and sexist.

Ellid: If Freddie the Troll has a degree in anything more than being a nasty little basement dweller, I would be shocked. I wonder if he’s yet found the courage, money, and access to a pizza joint necessary to move out of his parents’ rumpus room like the rest the us?

So much hostility, simply because a person is curious what classes Obama took in college.

Frederick N.: You have an unhealthy obsession with Palin. If she runs again I would like to see her medical history, college grades, and SAT scores. I guess I’m racist and sexist.

And considering she’s already in the mix for the GOP primaries in 2012, why wait on asking for them? Maybe you should start working on the records for Mitt Romney, Newt Romney, and Mike Huckabee too while you’re at it.

I love how Birthers(and yes again I am calling you Frederick a Birther) move goal posts, and dance away from questions that they cannot answer.

As i stated before Lets review your statement though “the same information about Obama that’s known about Bush, Gore, Kerry,”- and I linked it to the blog post you originally cited- and challenged you to show that all of them have produced the documents that you feel Obama should produce. I showed.

As I pointed out before, we haven’t seen Bush’s Harvard grades, or those transcripts- lets be consistant here- you have said Obama should release his transcripts- and you said Obama hasn’t released the information available for these three men.

“All three released more about their medical history than Obama. ”

Really? Show me Bushes then. Show me Gore’s. We have already seen the summary that was produced by Obama’s doctor.

And finally- you skip over entirely the fact that none of the people you cite released any birth certificate to the public, let alone a copy of the original ‘vault’ copy that you find so vital.

” Somehow the availability of this knowledge hasn’t been a disaster for America.”

Of course not. Not knowing the information I have pointed out that is not known on those people hasn’t been a disaster for America either.

“But simply asking about information on Obama is a dire threat, resulting in hysterical outrage, lying, and character assasination.”

I could be snide and and point out that is what you have been doing. But instead I will ask you to show an example of ‘hysterical outrage’ rather than me challenging the assertions that you have made. You said that all of those men provided the documents that Obama has not, and you are clearly wrong- not one of those men has provided all of the documents that you are requesting.

Me:“seen a copy of a partial Yale transcript posted on the internet, not the original. Not verified.”

You:”It’s as valid as Obama’s COLB. Why the double standard?”

Exactly my point. So you do agree that the COLB that Obama posted online is sufficient?

Frederick N.: So much hostility, simply because a person is curious what classes Obama took in college.

There you go again with your obsession with Obama. Do you want to know what he read today? You run around and act as though this information is important in some manner. It isn’t, since you didn’t vote for Obama, wouldn’t vote for Obama, and don’t care to vote for Obama. You don’t understand the context in which any information is released. If you want to remove Obama from office then you will have to wait for the 2012 election cycle, and vote with other American voters.

AnotherBird:
There you go again with your obsession with Obama. Do you want to know what he read today? You run around and act as though this information is important in some manner. It isn’t, since you didn’t vote for Obama, wouldn’t vote for Obama, and don’t care to vote for Obama. You don’t understand the context in which any information is released. If you want to remove Obama from office then you will have to wait for the 2012 election cycle, and vote with other American voters.

Dr. Conspiracy: Precisely which parts of it come from which speeches? What percentage is “recycled speeches?”

I’m not sure what percentage exactly is recycled, but there is a lot of overlap, see the reviews Also, recall “The Audacity of Hope” was the title of his keynote address at the 2004 Democratic convention/

The Sheriff’s A Ni-: And considering she’s already in the mix for the GOP primaries in 2012, why wait on asking for them? Maybe you should start working on the records for Mitt Romney, Newt Romney, and Mike Huckabee too while you’re at it.

Start a blog thread saying Sarah Palin’s SAT scores are nobody’s business and I will post a comment on it saying it is something we should find out.

WOW, I mention Palin once and you call it unhealthy obsession. Talk about projecting. Unlike you I’m not interested in her vital records or college transcripts. Just her record in public office, in public life and things that pertain to how she might perform in the future. And unlike I base it on verifible facts, not a quack diagnose based on selected passages in a book.

Apparently posting coherent questions for you isn’t either. I will admit, i have given my best shot at trying to get you to answer any questions or provide any responsive reply, and you have successfully avoided responding.

I will just go ahead and assume that your silence is a tacit acknowledgement that you not only cannot back up your assertions, but that you have no cogent answer as to why Obama should provide any information to you.

sfjeff: “Namecalling isn’t persuasive.”Apparently posting coherent questions for you isn’t either. I will admit, i have given my best shot at trying to get you to answer any questions or provide any responsive reply, and you have successfully avoided responding.I will just go ahead and assume that your silence is a tacit acknowledgement that you not only cannot back up your assertions, but that you have no cogent answer as to why Obama should provide any information to you.Thanks

Actually almost nothing you have stated has been backed up. Your claim that Obama hasn’t provided what previous candidates have has been clearly shown to be false.

Sorry you find my questions boring. Frankly I find your questions about the President’s medical transcripts and college records rather boring to, yet I do try to do you the courtesy to refute your claims.

So again, I stand by my claim- that your continued refusal to respond to questions is complete capitulation.

sfjeff: “Everything I’ve stated has been backed up. Your questions are boring.”Actually almost nothing you have stated has been backed up. Your claim that Obama hasn’t provided what previous candidates have has been clearly shown to be false.

That response illustrates the futility of responding to your questions. You ignore links provided, you ignore fact there is less information available about Obama. it’s a fact that Obama provided less medical information than other candidates. On the one hand, you say the information is unimportant, on the other, you nitpick McCain’s far greater medical transparency, you complain Bush’s transcript only exists on a website. You are like a reverse birther.

“it’s a fact that Obama provided less medical information than other candidates.”

Then back it up- show me the medical information each of those candidates and McCain have provided.

“On the one hand, you say the information is unimportant, on the other, you nitpick McCain’s far greater medical transparency,”

Greater transparency? I haven’t seen any of his records- have you?

“you complain Bush’s transcript only exists on a website.”

Are you immune to irony? I already explained- but will do so again- I actually do accept the transcripts Bush posted as valid, just as I accept that Obama’s COLB is valid. If you accept the validity of Bush’s transcripts then you too should accept Obama’s posted COLB.

sfjeff: “That response illustrates the futility of responding to your questions. ”If by futility, you mean just not responding, that would be correct.“You ignore links provided,”But you haven’t provided links to respond to my questions” you ignore fact there is less information available about Obama.”That is your opinion, far from a fact.
“it’s a fact that Obama provided less medical information than other candidates.”Then back it up- show me the medical information each of those candidates and McCain have provided.
“On the one hand, you say the information is unimportant, on the other, you nitpick McCain’s far greater medical transparency,”Greater transparency? I haven’t seen any of his records- have you?“you complain Bush’s transcript only exists on a website.”Are you immune to irony? I already explained- but will do so again- I actually do accept the transcripts Bush posted as valid, just as I accept that Obama’s COLB is valid. If you accept the validity of Bush’s transcripts then you too should accept Obama’s posted COLB.“You are like a reverse birther.”thanks you

sfjeff: FrederickMy challenge to you:You get to ask a single question regarding Obama, and i will respond to it fully.And then I get to ask you a question, and you respond fully.And then lets see how we do.

sfjeff: “Then back it up- show me the medical information each of those candidates and McCain have provided”

As I noted above, the New York TImes, not what anyone would consider a pro-McCain media outlet, stated: “In releasing 1,500 pages of medical and psychiatric records, Senator John McCain of Arizona has provided an unusually large amount of such material for a candidate for high office, including the broadest look ever given the public at the psychological profile of a presidential candidate”. Above I also provided a link to the pool report of McCain’s medical records. Your continuing to insist McCain released less information than Obama, who released a 276-word summary of his medical records, is bizarre.

sfjeff: FrederickMy challenge to you:You get to ask a single question regarding Obama, and i will respond to it fully.And then I get to ask you a question, and you respond fully.And then lets see how we do.

Why do you react so hysterically to mundane questions Obama’s SAT scores and classes he took in college?

Frederick N.: sfjeff: “Then back it up- show me the medical information each of those candidates and McCain have provided”As I noted above, the New York TImes, not what anyone would consider a pro-McCain media outlet, stated: “In releasing 1,500 pages of medical and psychiatric records, Senator John McCain of Arizona has provided an unusually large amount of such material for a candidate for high office, including the broadest look ever given the public at the psychological profile of a presidential candidate”. Above I also provided a link to the pool report of McCain’s medical records. Your continuing to insist McCain released less informationthan Obama, who released a 276-word summary of his medical records, is bizarre.

Frederick N.: Why do you react so hysterically to mundane questions Obama’s SAT scores and classes he took in college?

If you thought they were “mundane questions” you wouldn’t be spending significant amounts of time here hawking them. I believe the word is disingenuous, and yes Majority Will, Frederick has achieved troll status.

AnotherBird:
There you go again with your obsession with Obama. Do you want to know what he read today? You run around and act as though this information is important in some manner. It isn’t, since you didn’t vote for Obama, wouldn’t vote for Obama, and don’t care to vote for Obama. You don’t understand the context in which any information is released. If you want to remove Obama from office then you will have to wait for the 2012 election cycle, and vote with other American voters.

Not only that but from his own statements he has never voted or wasn’t old enough to vote in the last election

Frederick N.:
I’m not sure what percentage exactly is recycled, but there is a lot of overlap, see the reviews Also, recall “The Audacity of Hope” was the title of his keynote address at the 2004 Democratic convention/“Are they his speeches?”Speeches he gave, yes.

So you can quote exact passages from his books that come from his speeches right? You seem to speak in such vague generalizations without backing up your assertions

Nothing you’ve stated has been backed up. I know having you back up your assertions is boring and apparently is only for those elitist intellectual types. I’ll take that as your admission that you have no idea what you’re talking about

Frederick N.: sfjeff: “Then back it up- show me the medical information each of those candidates and McCain have provided”As I noted above, the New York TImes, not what anyone would consider a pro-McCain media outlet, stated: “In releasing 1,500 pages of medical and psychiatric records, Senator John McCain of Arizona has provided an unusually large amount of such material for a candidate for high office, including the broadest look ever given the public at the psychological profile of a presidential candidate”. Above I also provided a link to the pool report of McCain’s medical records. Your continuing to insist McCain released less informationthan Obama, who released a 276-word summary of his medical records, is bizarre.

Have you seen any of those McCain medical records? None of them were released to the public

Frederick N.: Your continuing to insist McCain released less information than Obama, who released a 276-word summary of his medical records, is bizarre.

Your insistance that the President somehow is at fault for being so healthy is beyond bizarre. The President’s medical records are so short because he has had the type of medical history as Sen. McCain. Why you expect the President’s record to be even close to the size of the Senator’s is, well, just plain insane.

gorefan: Your insistance that the President somehow is at fault for being so healthy is beyond bizarre. The President’s medical records are so short because he has had the type of medical history as Sen. McCain. Why you expect the President’s record to be even close to the size of the Senator’s is, well, just plain insane.

He didn’t release the records, he released a short summary of them. He wasn’t healthy. He is an admitted former drug user. McCain let reporters examine his actual medical records.

sfjeff: “Then back it up- show me the medical information each of those candidates and McCain have provided”

“As I noted above, the New York TImes, not what anyone would consider a pro-McCain media outlet, stated:” “….. Your continuing to insist McCain released less information than Obama, who released a 276-word summary of his medical records, is bizarre.”

I don’t believe I ever claimed that McCain ever released less information than Obama. I said show me the medical information from all the candidates- which you claimed that each of them had released more than Obama. You still haven’t established that.

But lets talk about McCain. Personally, I am satisfied with what he released, but the Times noted then that the records were not complete, and seriously- if Obama released his documents in such a matter Birthers would be squeeling like pigs about it. So to recap- McCain released more medical information to reporters than did Obama- yet neither released complete information- so you are concerned about matters of degree?

And of course, you still haven’t supplied any proof that all of these candidates all supplied more information regarding birth certificates, medical records and college transcripts as you claimed. At best you provide evidence that one candidate supplied something, another one had information leaked to the press, but none provided the complete list of information you want Obama to provide.

Frederick N.:
He didn’t release the records, he released a short summary of them. He wasn’t healthy. He is an admitted former drug user. McCain let reporters examine his actual medical records.

Frederick N. you seem to have a forfeited information that you read or fail to comprehend the main argument of the article. You quote an reference to John McCain releasing his medical records, but you seem have ignored the opening sentence which read …

In releasing 1,500 pages of medical and psychiatric records, Senator John McCain of Arizona has provided an unusually large amount of such material for a candidate for high office, …

So it is hard to understand what you are determining your interpreting on.

However, you keep ignoring one important fact. No, presidential or vice-presidential candidate except for Obama has release any document that represents a fact of citizenship by birth (natural born citizenship status).

You can continue ignoring the fact that your arguments are baseless. However, it is amusing to see you taking 6 words to contradict yourself.

gorefan: No, on the drug treatment. And no on continued drug use. Neither shows up in his medical summary, only his addiction to nicotine. Or are you saying that his doctor is lying?

It’s a summary. You don’t know what was omitted. Since he won’t release his medical records if he recieved treatment for drug addiction, when he last used drugs, and if he is on medication for his depression are open questions.

“Why do you react so hysterically to mundane questions Obama’s SAT scores and classes he took in college?”

See- it wasn’t that hard to ask a single question was it? Lets break down your question into the two distinct parts

“Why do you react so hysterically”
Well personally, I don’t think I am, so let me check out what the medical definition of hysteria:
“hysteria is a feature of hysterical disorders in which a patient experiences physical symptoms that have a psychological, rather than an organic, cause; and histrionic personality disorder characterized by excessive emotions, dramatics, and attention
seeking behavior”

Hmmm not feeling like I have any excessive emotions or dramatics here. Perhaps you are thinking of perhaps of a more common definition so here from Wikipedia:

“Hysteria, in its colloquial use, describes a state of mind, one of unmanageable fear or emotional excesses.”

Hmmm no unmanagable fear, this blog is just a pleasant pastime. No emotional excesses, just posting here while helping my daughter with a puzzle.

So I would have to say, I disagree with your opinion that I am acting hysterically.

To the second part-” to mundane questions Obama’s SAT scores and classes he took in college?”

I have no objection to questions about Obama’s grades, I just don’t think they are relevant. They might have been relevant while he was a candidate, but now that he is President, they have no relevance to either his legitimacy as President or his performance as President.

I think I answered your question completely- so mine:

What is the relevance to you of President Obama’s grades and medical records, since he is no longer a candidate but is a sitting President?

Frederick N.: The press has not done its job, the media has treated Obama favorably. Hence the demands for this information.

Every case that has been brought in an attempt to “demand” information has been dismissed. So, you can demand all you want. At the end of the day Obama will still be president, and in 2012 your vote will be one among many.

AnotherBird: Frederick N. you seem to have a forfeited information that you read or fail to comprehend the main argument of the article. You quote an reference to John McCain releasing his medical records, but you seem have ignored the opening sentence which read …In releasing 1,500 pages of medical and psychiatric records, Senator John McCain of Arizona has provided an unusually large amount of such material for a candidate for high office, …So it is hard to understand what you are determining your interpreting on.However, you keep ignoring one important fact. No, presidential or vice-presidential candidate except for Obama has release any document that represents a fact of citizenship by birth (natural born citizenship status). You can continue ignoring the fact that your arguments are baseless. However, it is amusing to see you taking 6 words to contradict yourself.

Frederick N.:
“He wasn’t healthy. He is an admitted former drug user.”

Obama’s Doctor:
In short, his examination showed him to be in excellent health. Senator Barack Obama is in overall good physical and mental health needed to maintain the resiliency required in the Office of President.

Who should we believe? Frederick, who claims to be an English Major, or a medical doctor?

And seriously, claiming that any former drug user is in bad health is really a losing game. I would guess that 95% of voters are current or former drug users, and virtually all politicians. I personally am drinking my drug of choice right now, a lovely Napa Valley Zinfandel.

Gorefan: “What is the relevance to you of President Obama’s grades and medical records, since he is no longer a candidate but is a sitting President?”

I’m concerned about the media/establishment not fully vetting their preferred presidential candidates. Also, I’m curious. His being a sitting president (or opting not to run for a second term) has no bearing on these questions.

Frederick N.: if he is on medication for his depression are open questions.

Are you one medication for your depression. It is strange that you through out random terms with absolutely nothing to support your position. You seem more like a truther, a birther, or any other conspiracy theorist, that a person with a rational concern.

Frederick N.:
i stated above I found the background information on Republican candidates interesting, I also said “If she runs again I would like to see her medical history, college grades, and SAT scores”.

Why is it so easy to doubt your what you typed? What you typed seems like “desires of grander.”

sfjeff: Frederick N.:“He wasn’t healthy. He is an admitted former drug user.”Obama’s Doctor:In short, his examination showed him to be in excellent health. Senator Barack Obama is in overall good physical and mental health needed to maintain the resiliency required in the Office of President.Who should we believe? Frederick, who claims to be an English Major, or a medical doctor?And seriously, claiming that any former drug user is in bad health is really a losing game. I would guess that 95% of voters are current or former drug users, and virtually all politicians. I personally am drinking my drug of choice right now, a lovely Napa Valley Zinfandel.

If he has been prescribed medication for depression and is taking it then it would be true to say he is in “overall good” mental health.

“I would consider Obama’s records unsealed if he allowed a pool of reporters to view his background information. Reverse birthers have one standard for Obama and another for everyone else.”

Can you name any single candidate who has released all the background information you are requesting to a pool of reporters? To keep it simple this would be:
a) his original birth certificate
b) his complete medical records
c) his complete transcripts of both pre- and post graduate college records

Personally, I don’t know of any candidate or President that has released the information you are calling for, or in the manner that you are asking for it.

Would I object if the President chose to release it? Nope, its his choice. But I see no relevance to the information, and no reason that the President should release them.

Frederick N.: Gorefan: “What is the relevance to you of President Obama’s grades and medical records, since he is no longer a candidate but is a sitting President?”I’m concerned about the media/establishment not fully vetting their preferred presidential candidates. Also, I’m curious. His being a sitting president (or opting not to run for a second term) has no bearing on these questions.

sfjeff: “I would consider Obama’s records unsealed if he allowed a pool of reporters to view his background information. Reverse birthers have one standard for Obama and another for everyone else.”Can you name any single candidate who has released all the background information you are requesting to a pool of reporters? To keep it simple this would be:a) his original birth certificateb) his complete medical recordsc) his complete transcripts of both pre- and post graduate college recordsPersonally, I don’t know of any candidate or President that has released the information you are calling for, or in the manner that you are asking for it. Would I object if the President chose to release it? Nope, its his choice. But I see no relevance to the information, and no reason that the President should release them.

AnotherBird: Are you one medication for your depression. It is strange that you through out random terms with absolutely nothing to support your position. You seem more like a truther, a birther, or any other conspiracy theorist, that a person with a rational concern.Why is it so easy to doubt your what you typed? What you typed seems like “desires of grander.”

I don’t know what “Are you one medication” means. You misspelled threw. “That a person” is incorrect. “Desires of grander” is gibberish.

“Has he ever been treated for drug addiction? When was the last time he used drugs?”

What I find amusing about this is that the only reason we know that Obama has used drugs, is that he openly wrote about using drugs- and he also openly wrote about his decision to stop using them.

So- you accept his word that he used drugs, but you don’t believe him that he stopped using drugs.

Lets move on- President Bush was widely believed to have been a heavy drug user- this rumor circulated for years. Yet he never released his medical records that proved that a) he was never treated for drugs and b) that he wasn’t on drugs while President.

Do I think he should have- nope. The voters voted him in knowing about the rumors.

Frederick N.: Gorefan: “What is the relevance to you of President Obama’s grades and medical records, since he is no longer a candidate but is a sitting President?”I’m concerned about the media/establishment not fully vetting their preferred presidential candidates. Also, I’m curious. His being a sitting president (or opting not to run for a second term) has no bearing on these questions.

Frederick N. you are really boring. The media vets candidates to give information to voters, so those voters can make decisions on who to vote for. In 2008 enough voters were satisfied with what Obama produced and elected him president. The election is over.

Why not become a reporter or journalist since you studied English literature. You can start your investigation now, but you have to drop the false conjecture arguments.

Frederick N.:
I don’t know what “Are you one medication” means. You misspelled threw. “That a person” is incorrect. “Desires of grander” is gibberish.

You entire arguments are gibberish. You have produced nothing that supports your arguments either through logical reasoning, facts, or law. It is quite amusing that you make things up about other people, and then your end up proving what you claimed was false all along.

sfjeff: “you accept his word that he used drugs, but you don’t believe him that he stopped using drugs”

Have you ever known any drug users? To put it mildly, many drug users tend to fib about having quit. I think he probably has, though. Do you think if the media found out he hadn’t it would be reported?

Bush’s doctor stated Bush had “no history of any alcohol, drug, mental or psychiatric treatment or rehabilitation”.

SluggoJD: FrederickN,Hi again! It’s me, your buddy John.I am really worried about you dude…you’ve been posting on this website for over 11 hours today, and your brain must be about to dissolve into Jello, which will unleash maggots all over your bedroom.Brain cells are such a terrible thing to waste. Please get a life, before maggots take over your house.

Frederick N.:
I don’t know what “Are you one medication” means. You misspelled threw. “That a person” is incorrect. “Desires of grander” is gibberish.

Let us look at a comment about our wonderful English Major Frederick N.

Frederick N.:
i stated above I found the background information on Republican candidates interesting, I also said “If she runs again I would like to see her medical history, college grades, and SAT scores”.

In English “I” the first person singular pronoun isn’t spelled using a lower case “I.”

In English we never start a sentence with a lower case letter.

We would have expected that you would be better at not writing run on sentences, or now the difference in the usage of a period versus a comma.

So Frederick N. before you again get picky about spelling or grammar you better be absolutely perfect. We will leave your lack of logic for another comment.

AnotherBird: Let us look at a comment about our wonderful English Major Frederick N.In English “I” the first person singular pronoun isn’t spelled using a lower case “I.”In English we never start a sentence with a lower case letter.We would have expected that you would be better at not writing run on sentences, or now the difference in the usage of a period versus a comma.So Frederick N. before you again get picky about spelling or grammar you better be absolutely perfect. We will leave your lack of logic for another comment.

Those are typos, not gibberish. You have a bad case of desires of grander.

Frederick N.: sfjeff: “and seriously- if Obama released his documents in such a matter Birthers would be squeeling like pigs about it”As stated above, I’m not a birther, and would consider Obama’s records unsealed if he allowed a pool of reporters to view his background information.“another one had information leaked to the press, none provided the complete list of information you want Obama to provide.”The press has not done its job, the media has treated Obama favorably. Hence the demands for this information.

In recent times Presidents have come to do what is known as “document drops” which is the releasing of large amounts of personal information on a Friday afternoon after the end of the news cycle, so that the juicy stuff doesn’t hit the mainstream media until Monday. Both Clinton and George W. Bush did document drops when it was politically advantageous for them. Obama will most likely follow this new tradition when we are much closer to the next presidential election, just to make his opponents look bad.
Obama’s lack of personal transparency is a reaction to John Kerry’s “swiftboating” and the Clinton impeachment. Obama’s attitude appears to be, if my political opposition uncovers damaging information about me, fine, but I’m not going to provide them with one whit of information that I do not control.

Frederick N.: sfjeff: “you accept his word that he used drugs, but you don’t believe him that he stopped using drugs”

Have you ever known any drug users? To put it mildly, many drug users tend to fib about having quit. I think he probably has, though. Do you think if the media found out he hadn’t it would be reported?

Bush’s doctor stated Bush had “no history of any alcohol, drug, mental or psychiatric treatment or rehabilitation”.

See you can’t even distinguish between drug uses and drug addicts. Both Alcohol and tobacco are considers drugs. Many people have tried drugs and never got addicted. There are various programs for the treatment and curing of drug addicts. However, unless there in contradicting information we always accept an individuals account about there habits. This is all part of the rehabilitation of people who were addicted to a particular drug.

“If he has been prescribed medication for depression and is taking it then it would be true to say he is in “overall good” mental health.”

On what do you base this opinion? Do you have some unrevealed medical expertise? Because, simpleton that I am, when doctor says someone is in excellent physical and mental health I accept that as a professional opinion

Oh and contradiction alert:
Frederick: “He wasn’t healthy” and
“it would be true to say he is in “overall good” mental health.””

Geez make up your mind will you- you say he wasn’t healthy and yet agree the doctor is saying he is in good health.

Fred:
“I’m concerned about the media/establishment not fully vetting their preferred presidential candidates.”

Okay- that is a legitmate question for the media. Why are you asking a sitting President?

” Also, I’m curious. His being a sitting president (or opting not to run for a second term) has no bearing on these questions.”

Okay, this is what is really comes down to it- you are curious?

Let me ask you a question- do you really think the President owes anyone answers to anything simply because they are ‘curious’?

Personally I don’t. I don’t think that we are entitled to know whether a President is circumsized or not, whether he has had a venereal disease in the past, whether his wife cheated on him or whether he had a bad grade in college.

I actually do think we are entitled to know whether a President is in bad health- but not entitled to see his entire medical history.

But I am glad we have established that there is no higher purpose to your questions other than curiiousity- nothing wrong with curiousity, but neither is there anything wrong with the President ignoring it.

“Bush’s doctor stated Bush had “no history of any alcohol, drug, mental or psychiatric treatment or rehabilitation”.”

I have to give you credit- you actually posted an on point response. I never had seen any doctor refute the possibility that Bush was on drugs.

“Have you ever known any drug users? To put it mildly, many drug users tend to fib about having quit. I think he probably has, though.

Actually, not only have I known ‘many’ drug users, I use drugs myself. I am enjoying some wine this evening, and also have a prescription for pain killers that I take. Beyond that I enjoy occasional marijuana use, and when I was younger tried cocaine many times, LSD once, and Ecstasy multiple times. So, I have actual experience with drugs and have known drug users- have you?

Perhaps you are speaking only of illegal drugs? Considering I know literally hundreds of people who have used marijuana extensively at some point in their lives, I can say I have seen no evidence of any particular propensity for drug users to lie about their drug use. I also know dozens of people who have used cocaine with similar results.

Or perhaps you are speaking about actual addicts? Actual addicts will certainly lie about almost anything in order to get their next high. But you never claimed that Obama was an addict did you? Nor is there any evidence other than his own admission of casual use as a college student. Which you oddly believe, but don’t believe his statement that he quit.

“Do you think if the media found out he hadn’t it would be reported?”

Sure- look at how his cigarette smoking gets reported. Fox would be willing to sacrifice Glen Beck on altar of children’s toys to break the story that the President was using drugs.

Frederick N.: i stated above I found the background information on Republican candidates interesting, I also said “If she runs again I would like to see her medical history, college grades, and SAT scores”.

Eleventy billion comments on Obama’s records but you ‘if she runs again you would like’ to see Palin’s. Why wait?: I can assure you Mitt Romney’s running, go find his! What’re you waiting for?

Frederick N. : I don’t keep a detailed index on the collected outpourings of Barack Obama, but here is one example: compare this and this . I’m sure if you re-read Obama’s old speeches you can find more.

Well I’m impressed. The usual troll would have ignored a question like that, but you came up with an Obama speech that upon cursory examination looks like a page from his book, the Audacity of Hope. Damn good speech, by the way. One page is a long way from “much” of the book, but you get credit.

Frederick N.: I would consider Obama’s records unsealed if he allowed a pool of reporters to view his background information. Reverse birthers have one standard for Obama and another for everyone else.

[I’m suddenly having a sense of deja vu here.] I don’t think the usual birther would be satisfied with anything less then a multidisciplinary team of document examiners in the vault of the Hawaii Department of Health, including taking a sample for carbon dating the paper (yes, I know that would be meaningless on a sample so new).

Dr. Conspiracy: [I’m suddenly having a sense of deja vu here.] I don’t think the usual birther would be satisfied with anything less then a multidisciplinary team of document examiners in the vault of the Hawaii Department of Health, including taking a sample for carbon dating the paper (yes, I know that would be meaningless on a sample so new).

Doc I’m starting to think its our birther army of Twaddles again. The person already stated he was in the first grade before Bush was president, making him not old enough to even vote in 2008. So his concerns are meaningless. Twaddle and his army of clones was also young and most likely underage

Frederick N.: I would consider Obama’s records unsealed if he allowed a pool of reporters to view his background information. Reverse birthers have one standard for Obama and another for everyone else.

But that’s not enough by your standards. How can you trust those reporters especially if they didn’t have enough time to pour through all the pages? You’re creating two standards here. You want the long form released to the public at large which McCain never released. McCain didn’t even release a COLB so yes you have a double standard.

Frederick N.: I don’t keep a detailed index on the collected outpourings of Barack Obama, but here is one example: compare this and this . I’m sure if you re-read Obama’s old speeches you can find more.

So its my job to do your homework for you? You stated that the book was just a repeat of the speeches. So which part of that passage comes verbatim from a speech? I would expect you as an English major to articulate your points better. My English teacher in College used to say don’t tell me show me. Thus far you’ve failed to show anything.

Frederick N.: sfjeff: “you accept his word that he used drugs, but you don’t believe him that he stopped using drugs”Have you ever known any drug users? To put it mildly, many drug users tend to fib about having quit. I think he probably has, though. Do you think if the media found out he hadn’t it would be reported?Bush’s doctor stated Bush had “no history of any alcohol, drug, mental or psychiatric treatment or rehabilitation”.

So the doctor according to you said Bush never went to treatment or rehab. The doctor did not say that Bush never used drugs. So here’s the standard you won’t apply to Bush. You say Obama should go to treatment etc but with Bush no?

Why are you assuming anything was omitted? Is the doctor trying to hide something? Did you read and comprehend the medical health summary:

“During that period of time, Senator Obama has been in excellent health. He has been seen regularly for medical checkups and various minor problems such as upper respiratory infections, skin rashes and minor injuries.”

But you said the President “wasn’t healthy”! Is the doctor lying or are you lying? Who to believe, you or the medical doctor.

Notice that during that 21 year period there is no mention of drug abuse or treatment? You know, doctor’s only treat people for illnesses they have, not for illnesses they don’t have. In fact, if doctor’s were required to list all the illnesses that patients don’t have then medical records would be quite long.

a) he thinks candidates should release more personal information
b) he is not a birther, he just wants to see Obama’s birth certificate
c) the only reason he would like to see all of this information is because he is curious
d) he believes that Obama should release all of his information because we know more about other candidates, even though no single candidate has released all of the information that he thinks Obama should release.

gorefan:
Why are you assuming anything was omitted?Is the doctor trying to hide something?Did you read and comprehend the medical health summary:“During that period of time, Senator Obama has been in excellent health. He has been seen regularly for medical checkups and various minor problems such as upper respiratory infections, skin rashes and minor injuries.”But you said the President “wasn’t healthy”!Is the doctor lying or are you lying?Who to believe, you or the medical doctor.Notice that during that 21 year period there is no mention of drug abuse or treatment?You know, doctor’s only treat people for illnesses they have, not for illnesses they don’t have.In fact, if doctor’s were required to list all the illnesses that patients don’t have then medical records would be quite long.

sfjeff: I think it is time to summarize Fredericks positiona) he thinks candidates should release more personal informationb) he is not a birther, he just wants to see Obama’s birth certificatec) the only reason he would like to see all of this information is because he is curiousd) he believes that Obama should release all of his information because we know more about other candidates, even though no single candidate has released all of the information that he thinks Obama should release.

e) Even though he wasn’t old enough to vote during the election he still wants to know just because. Palin should release her information if she runs but when she ran for VP she shouldn’t

a long and bizarre exchange. if fred was serious about requiring the documents he seeks for eligibility then this would have nothing to do with obama. it would require a constitutional amendment and i don’t see that happening before 2012.

sfjeff: I think it is time to summarize Fredericks position
a) he thinks candidates should release more personal information

b) he is not a birther, he just wants to see Obama’s birth certificate

c) the only reason he would like to see all of this information is because he is curious

d) he believes that Obama should release all of his information because we know more about other candidates, even though no single candidate has released all of the information that he thinks Obama should release.

a) He believes that presidential candidates should release more information. However, He wasn’t carious “prior to Bush because” he ” wasn’t interested in politics in first grade.”

b) He claims to not be a birther, but just wants to see Obama’s vital records as held by the State of Hawaii.

c) He thinks that he is just displaying active cariousity in seeking extra information.

d) He believes that Obama should release all of his information because he believes that more is known about other candidates, even though no single candidate has released all of the information that he thinks Obama should release.

AnotherBird:
a) He believes that presidential candidates should release more information. However, He wasn’t carious “prior to Bush because” he ” wasn’t interested in politics in first grade.”b) He claims to not be a birther, but just wants to see Obama’s vital records as held by the State of Hawaii.c) He thinks that he is just displaying active cariousity in seeking extra information.d) He believes that Obama should release all of his information because he believes that more is known about other candidates, even though no single candidate has released all of the information that he thinks Obama should release.

This entire business about medical records is a red herring. The fact that McCain released 1,000 pages or so of his medical records is largely meaningless, because we don’t know how many pages he didn’t release. Given McCain’s extensive medical treatment following his release from North Vietnam, it wouldn’t surprise me if what he released amounts to 10% or less of his entire medical history. He chose what he wanted reporters to see, and he chose what he did not want them to see.

Likewise with the letter from Bush’s doctor. The letter was written in 1999 by a doctor who had treated Bush since 1989. So how does the doctor know that Bush had no history of alcohol, drug, mental or psychiatric treatment or rehabilitation? Because that is what Bush told him. Absent knowledge to the contrary, doctors rely upon the medical histories which are related to them by their patients. Bush’s doctor has no personal knowledge of what Bush was doing in the seventies and eighties.

The same holds true for Obama. If Frederick N.’s fantasy about Obama undergoing treatment for drug abuse or depression is true, his doctor wouldn’t necessarily know about it unless Obama told him about it. Currently there is no central repository for medical records, and even if Obama gave Frederick N. a signed authorization for his records, it wouldn’t do any good without knowing exactly where Obama was treated. In fact, under HIPAA all records which involve treatment for alcohol and drug abuse, mental health treatment and HIV treatment are given extra protection, and those records cannot be released unless the patient specifically signs off on them.

So what we’re seeing here is a variation on Sven’s fantasies about adoption, renunciation of citizenship, etc. He and Frederick N. want to see records which either don’t exist or for which they have no right to see. And if they ever do see the records, they will insist that they are incomplete or have been scrubbed. Just look at the birther reaction to the release of the Dunham and Soetoro records.

sfjeff: “If he has been prescribed medication for depression and is taking it then it would be true to say he is in “overall good” mental health.”On what do you base this opinion? Do you have some unrevealed medical expertise? Because, simpleton that I am, when doctor says someone is in excellent physical and mental health I accept that as a professional opinionOh and contradiction alert:Frederick: “He wasn’t healthy” and“it would be true to say he is in “overall good” mental health.””Geez make up your mind will you- you say he wasn’t healthy and yet agree the doctor is saying he is in good health.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): So its my job to do your homework for you? You stated that the book was just a repeat of the speeches. So which part of that passage comes verbatim from a speech? I would expect you as an English major to articulate your points better. My English teacher in College used to say don’t tell me show me. Thus far you’ve failed to show anything.

The book recycles material from his speeches, I provided an example, you refuse to read it.

1. How do you know?
2. Of what relevance is what someone’s health was 25 years ago? Should Huckabee be disqualified because he was obese? If someone used drugs or was overweight and took steps to change that, isn’t that a positive thing?

Dr. Conspiracy: Well I’m impressed. The usual troll would have ignored a question like that, but you came up with an Obama speech that upon cursory examination looks like a page from his book, the Audacity of Hope. Damn good speech, by the way. One page is a long way from “much” of the book, but you get credit.What you do not get credit for was dismissing the book on that basis.

From a literary and psychological standpoint the book is far less interesting than Dreams. Many reviewers found Audacity dull.

You have no idea about that. You so far have been dishonest and lied about the context of a quote in the book. Bush did cocaine during the 80s and was a heavy alcoholic and crashed his car in his parents front lawn. Apparently Bush wasn’t healthy back then but I don’t see you complaining about it.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): You have no idea about that. You so far have been dishonest and lied about the context of a quote in the book. Bush did cocaine during the 80s and was a heavy alcoholic and crashed his car in his parents front lawn. Apparently Bush wasn’t healthy back then but I don’t see you complaining about it.

On what basis do you claim Bush used cocaine? Evidence please. I’m not sure what country you are from, but in America lot’s of people crash cars into their parents front lawn when they are young.

Frederick N.: Read both and you can see how they compare. Dr. Conspiracy did. Why does it bother you that Obama recycled his boring speeches into a boring book? Lots of politicians publish books like that.

When you make a statement its on you to prove it Fred. You claimed the whole book was just a recycle of his speech. One page from a book that you can’t explain how a speech relates to it is a far cry from your original statement. You still haven’t shown how even that page was just a rehash of his speech

Frederick N.: On what basis do you claim Bush used cocaine? Evidence please. I’m not sure what country you are from, but in America lot’s of people crash cars into their parents front lawn when they are young.

Yeah lots of irresponsible kids. Not adults. Bush was an adult when he crashed his car in his parents lawn. Bush was an adult when he had his dui. It shows Bush had horrible mental health. Well when asked about it Bush never denied it. Thats how your logic seems to work. There’s also JH Hatfield’s book Fortunate Son that goes into detail

sfjeff: I think it is time to summarize Fredericks positiona) he thinks candidates should release more personal informationb) he is not a birther, he just wants to see Obama’s birth certificatec) the only reason he would like to see all of this information is because he is curiousd) he believes that Obama should release all of his information because we know more about other candidates, even though no single candidate has released all of the information that he thinks Obama should release.

Your position seems to be the media and candidates themselves should be allowed to determine the amount we know about candidates, and that the media and candidates can be trusted to be both honest and to give us the right amount of information.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Yeah lots of irresponsible kids. Not adults. Bush was an adult when he crashed his car in his parents lawn. Bush was an adult when he had his dui. It shows Bush had horrible mental health. Well when asked about it Bush never denied it. Thats how your logic seems to work. There’s also JH Hatfield’s book Fortunate Son that goes into detail

Frederick N.: Your position seems to be the media and candidates themselves should be allowed to determine the amount we know about candidates, and that the media and candidates can be trusted to be both honest and to give us the right amount of information.

Your position seems to be forget about the candidates actual positions we need to know every single thing no matter how meaningless it is about a candidate. Next you’ll be asking for his stool samples

Again with the armchair medical diagnosis. I am not sure whether you are saying he was not healthy because he used illegal drugs- which I would believe would be more of a moral opinion than anything rooted in actual medicine- or because of the comments he made about why he chose to stop using drugs.

But I point out again- you only know about Obama’s drug use because he openly admitted it, but you refuse to believe his statements in the same book that he chose to stop using drugs.

I wish you would show some consistancy here- do you believe what Obama says or not? If you don’t, then you should assume he was also lieing about using drugs.

By the way, I consider Obama far more honest about the subject than Bush “I haven’t used illegal drugs in over 25 years” and Clinton “I never inhaled”. Obama knew when he wrote about his drug use in his biography that certain right wing slime technicians would focus and try to make that an issue, even though the majority of voters have experimented with illegal drugs, and most are regular users of legal drugs.

Frederick N.: sfjeff: “I wish you would show some consistancy here- do you believe what Obama says or not?”I don’t believe everything he says is true. Do you? Are you really that naive?

So you cherry pick what to believe. If its negative then you believe it if its positive you ignore it. Gotcha. You’re already made up your mind. Maybe you can have some say since you’ll be old enough to vote next election

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): So you cherry pick what to believe. If its negative then you believe it if its positive you ignore it. Gotcha. You’re already made up your mind. Maybe you can have some say since you’ll be old enough to vote next election

I doubt statements for which there is reasonable cause to be skeptical. You believe everything Obama says at the same time you believe wild conspiracy theories about Bush.

Frederick N.: I doubt statements for which there is reasonable cause to be skeptical. You believe everything Obama says at the same time you believe wild conspiracy theories about Bush.

Wild conspiracies? You don’t think Obama is eligible to be president that’s pretty wild. You lied about the context of the original quote from dreams. You haven’t shown any reasonable cause to be skeptical. Besides what would it have mattered? You weren’t old enough to vote this time around so your opinion counted for jack. Where did I say I believed everything Obama says? Now you’re making red herrings.

So far you’ve shown yourself to be dishonest, paranoid, confused, and suffering from MPD.

First of Frederick, I am note that you didn’t disagree with my summary of your positions. I will take that silence as your agreement with my summary.

“Your position seems to be the media and candidates themselves should be allowed to determine the amount we know about candidates, and that the media and candidates can be trusted to be both honest and to give us the right amount of information.”

I am not trying to be offensive here, but do you have reading comprehension problems? I have multiple times said that the voters determine what amount of knowledge they require from candidates. The candidates release the information that they think is necessary to get the votes. Examples of this are easy to find- Obama releasing his birth certificate, McCain showing reporters medical records, Bush posting his college transcripts.

I have also stated multiple times that I have no issue with any questions for candidates. Questions of candidates can often lead to interesting answers, or interesting silences. I don’t think a candidate is obligated to respond to any and all questions- the voters can decide whether enough questions were answered.

But once again you talk of candidates, and then of Obama. Obama is not a candidate- he was a candidate. The voters have already spoken and Obama doesn’t owe you a single answer.

Incorrect- I have said many times the voters decide what information that they require to cast a vote

“The amount of information is determined by the media.”

Unsupported assertion. Obama provided his BC, not the media. McCain provided his medical records to the media, the media didn’t determine what he released. In the end the voters decide whether a candidate has provided enough information to get their vote.

I do not disagree that the media is influential. But in the end the candidates must convince the voters. Voters who didn’t trust that Candidate Obama was not eligible to be President could make the decision to not vote for him. Voters- like my dad for instance- who felt that McCain was simply not healthy enough to be President- could chose not to vote for him.

“I see nothing wrong with greater transparency from elected officials, particularly regarding information there is no reason to be defensive about.”

If an elected official choses to respond to your requests, fine. But you have yet to provide any relevancy other than idle curiousity. I don’t see Obama being defensive about his records at all, he is just doing the smart thing and ignoring requests that aren’t relevant to his presidency.

Frederick N.: “I am not trying to be offensive here, but do you have reading comprehension problems? I have multiple times said that the voters determine what amount of knowledge they require from candidates.”Which is simply wrong. The amount of information is determined by the media.“The voters have already spoken and Obama doesn’t owe you a single answer.”I see nothing wrong with greater transparency from elected officials, particularly regarding information there is no reason to be defensive about.

Well then the media has determined that the amount of information Obama released was sufficient. The voters, which you were not one of them, seem to have agreed.

Frederick N.: I’m not sure what country you are from, but in America lot’s of people crash cars into their parents front lawn when they are young.

Laura Bush killed a classmate with reckless driving:

“On a November night in 1963, Mrs. Bush and a girlfriend were hurrying to a drive-in theater when Mrs. Bush, at the wheel of her father’s Chevy Impala, ran a stop sign on a small road and smashed into a car being driven by Mike Douglas, a star athlete and popular student at her school.”

sfjeff: “If he refuses to be open no one has any reason or obligation to give him the benefit of the doubt.”Then don’t give him the benefit of the doubt. Lets sum this up again- your only reason to want this information is idle curiuosity, and if the President doesn’t answer your requests you think no one should give him the benefit of the doubt. Anything else to add?

Exposing Obama also exposes the media. If questions about what classes he took in college upset a politician and his supporters then it is logical to think there is something interesting there.

misha: Laura Bush killed a classmate with reckless driving:“On a November night in 1963, Mrs. Bush and a girlfriend were hurrying to a drive-in theater when Mrs. Bush, at the wheel of her father’s Chevy Impala, ran a stop sign on a small road and smashed into a car being driven by Mike Douglas, a star athlete and popular student at her school.”http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/books/28laura.html

However 69 million people decided that it was not important…That is why this birther obsession with kindergarden records and his college thesis is an epic fail. They think because they want to go on a fishing expedition to find something to hang the President with that there are a majority of Americans that feel the same way. They are wrong. Like Jeff said. The voters ultimately decide. A majority of the voters felt that Barack Obama was the better candidate for President. A majority of the voters did not believe in fake Pakistan travel bans, phony Vattel requirements, or additional proof beyond the COLB. Only people that did not like the President, and if all of the information was released would not vote for him anyway are making noise. The bottom line is that no matter how you twist things voters knew more things about Obama than any other candidate in history. Bush never admitted he did cocaine. He said he would not “discuss” what happened in the past. He was a known drunk that had multiple DUI’s. Yet I seriously doubt that you had any issues with him. Nor did you ever clamor to see his birth certificate. Just admit that you are requiring more from Obama than any other President. At least be honest about that and stop being disingenous….

I notice you- once again- are unable to back up your assertion. Having lived through Watergate, through Iran-Contra, through the first Iraq War, through 9/11, and our invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, I am more than willing to challenge my actual experience with how the world works with yours.

” If the media doesn’t think something should be important, it probably won’t be”

Ah, the mythical media- are you speaking like ‘mainstream media’ which Conservatives love to use, or is this the Jewish conspiracy media, or is this some monolithic ‘worldwide media’ all controlled by Rupert Murdock?

Because while i will agree that there are ‘media trends’, my personal opinion is that media follows whatever they think they can make a profit on. If a newspaper runs a story about McCains health and it has no ‘legs’ they won’t bother to follow it up.

Fox, Limbaugh and the Wall Street Journal didn’t give Obama a pass on his records, they didn’t see dollar signs there. MSN didn’t give McCain a pass on not releasing his medical records to be published because there was no ‘there’ there. Was the media giving Palin a pass for not publishing her birth certificate? I don’t think so- I think the media accurately sensed that their readers didn’t feel it was relevant.

I will say once again- your questions to candidates have relevancy- and the voters decide on whether they are satisified with the answers.

Your same questions to a sitting President- any President- are irrelevant and mere prurient curiousity.

Laughable. Seeing as you were too young to vote this time around you definitely weren’t paying attention. McCain was the original star he had the media over for his barbeques, the media brought him donuts. That was until McCain started coming off crazy and swung to the far right. He behaved erratically. Look how quickly the media killed the McCain lobbyist affair story and how much they latched onto the Bill Ayers, Reverand Wright stories while ignoring Sarah Palin’s crazy preacher.

More negative stories were reported about Obama during the primary and election season than about McCain.

How about the media burrying McCain’s past about him crashing several of his planes and being a wreckless pilot? They sure seized on the made up swift boat lies during Kerry but then ignored McCain’s problems.

How about the media not talking about the Forestal disaster? They seemed to touch on almost anything negative made up or not about Obama

Frederick N.: Exposing Obama also exposes the media. If questions about what classes he took in college upset a politician and his supporters then it is logical to think there is something interesting there.

Actually Obama was never upset, nor was his supporters. It was the idiots like Manning that made a production about him not attending Columbia. They are the ones that made up a story that he was in the CIA. Even when evidence showed that he wrote for the student newspaper and had roommates and teachers that remembered him, the birthers still made that an issue….Obama never addressed it nor did anyone else…So try again…

Black Lion: However 69 million people decided that it was not important…That is why this birther obsession with kindergarden records and his college thesis is an epic fail. They think because they want to go on a fishing expedition to find something to hang the President with that there are a majority of Americans that feel the same way. They are wrong. Like Jeff said. The voters ultimately decide. A majority of the voters felt that Barack Obama was the better candidate for President. A majority of the voters did not believe in fake Pakistan travel bans, phony Vattel requirements, or additional proof beyond the COLB. Only people that did not like the President, and if all of the information was released would not vote for him anyway are making noise. The bottom line is that no matter how you twist things voters knew more things about Obama than any other candidate in history. Bush never admitted he did cocaine. He said he would not “discuss” what happened in the past. He was a known drunk that had multiple DUI’s. Yet I seriously doubt that you had any issues with him. Nor did you ever clamor to see his birth certificate. Just admit that you are requiring more from Obama than any other President. At least be honest about that and stop being disingenous….

I don’t share your faith in voters. Given the pro-Obama media coverage the idea voters knew more about Obama than any other candidate in history is laughable. It’s not a “fishing expedition”, it’s general information known about other candidates.

Frederick N.: When Jesus was a teenager he ran over his neighbor’s goats with his dad’s chariot.

Better goats than people.

Driving her father’s brand new Chevy Impala on November 6, 1963, Laura Welch ran a stop sign on Farm Road 868 at 8:08 p.m. at 50 m.p.h., plowing into a Corvair sedan driven by Michael Dutton Douglas, the high school’s track and football star, and according to some, a former beau of hers. The impact of the collision hurled Douglas’ car some 50 feet off the road, instantly killing him.

Laura Bush writes that she and her friend were hurrying to a drive-in; others thought she may have been returning to town from a party.

Frederick N.: I don’t share your faith in voters. Given the pro-Obama media coverage the idea voters knew more about Obama than any other candidate in history is laughable. It’s not a “fishing expedition”, it’s general information known about other candidates.

Again laughable. You weren’t even old enough to vote in the election. Its obvious you have little faith in America as well. Yes you wanting to see everything under the sun about Obama is a fishing expedition because you’re hoping to find something embarassing. Keyword being hoping.

The media was all over McCain up until he imploded, they went to his barbeques got cosy with his family and daughter and brought him donuts. They printed almost anything negative they could about Obama. There was more out there about candidate Obama before he ran than there was about Bush. Obama wrote two books for anyone to see who he was.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Laughable. Seeing as you were too young to vote this time around you definitely weren’t paying attention. McCain was the original star he had the media over for his barbeques, the media brought him donuts. That was until McCain started coming off crazy and swung to the far right. He behaved erratically. Look how quickly the media killed the McCain lobbyist affair story and how much they latched onto the Bill Ayers, Reverand Wright stories while ignoring Sarah Palin’s crazy preacher. More negative stories were reported about Obama during the primary and election season than about McCain.How about the media burrying McCain’s past about him crashing several of his planes and being a wreckless pilot? They sure seized on the made up swift boat lies during Kerry but then ignored McCain’s problems.How about the media not talking about the Forestal disaster? They seemed to touch on almost anything negative made up or not about Obama

After Wright’s crazy preaching came out, Obama, who attended Wright’s church for 20 years, was a personal friend of Wright’s, who called Wright his “spiritual mentor”, who titled a book after a line from a Wright sermon, said he had no idea Wright had such views, and had never heard any such preaching. The media accepted this ludicrous claim at face value then moved on. Really, if you don’t think the media is pro-Obama I don’t know what planet you live on.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Again laughable. You weren’t even old enough to vote in the election. Its obvious you have little faith in America as well. Yes you wanting to see everything under the sun about Obama is a fishing expedition because you’re hoping to find something embarassing. Keyword being hoping.The media was all over McCain up until he imploded, they went to his barbeques got cosy with his family and daughter and brought him donuts. They printed almost anything negative they could about Obama. There was more out there about candidate Obama before he ran than there was about Bush. Obama wrote two books for anyone to see who he was.

One of Obama’s books is largely a recycling of his vague, platitudinous speeches. The media ignored much that was interesting in Dreams. Notice how few people here have read Dreams, despite being Obama supporters.

misha: Better goats than people.Driving her father’s brand new Chevy Impala on November 6, 1963, Laura Welch ran a stop sign on Farm Road 868 at 8:08 p.m. at 50 m.p.h., plowing into a Corvair sedan driven by Michael Dutton Douglas, the high school’s track and football star, and according to some, a former beau of hers. The impact of the collision hurled Douglas’ car some 50 feet off the road, instantly killing him.Laura Bush writes that she and her friend were hurrying to a drive-in; others thought she may have been returning to town from a party.http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-05-02/behind-laura-bushs-car-crash/

It’s rumored Laura had dated Dutton Douglas. Maybe she crashed into him on purpose because he broke up with her. You should look into it.

Frederick N.: After Wright’s crazy preaching came out, Obama, who attended Wright’s church for 20 years, was a personal friend of Wright’s, who called Wright his “spiritual mentor”, who titled a book after a line from a Wright sermon, said he had no idea Wright had such views, and had never heard any such preaching. The media accepted this ludicrous claim at face value then moved on. Really, if you don’t think the media is pro-Obama I don’t know what planet you live on.

Yeah sure they did that’s why to this day Wright still comes up. The media played the same few clips from Wright’s sermons over and over again throughout the campaign. That’s not exactly taking Obama’s word for it. I live on the planet earth Kid, if the media was on Obama’s side they never would have reported on Wright. But that’s not what happened did it? They played the same soundbytes over and over again. How many of Wright’s full sermons did you actually listen to?

Frederick N.: One of Obama’s books is largely a recycling of his vague, platitudinous speeches. The media ignored much that was interesting in Dreams. Notice how few people here have read Dreams, despite being Obama supporters.

Again you’re making claims without backing them up. You haven’t showed that his book is largely recycled from his speeches. Chances are you never bothered to read the full book and instead got the cliff notes version. You haven’t bothered to read Dreams either which is why you had to lie about the context of the passage you quoted the other day.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Yeah sure they did that’s why to this day Wright still comes up. The media played the same few clips from Wright’s sermons over and over again throughout the campaign. That’s not exactly taking Obama’s word for it. I live on the planet earth Kid, if the media was on Obama’s side they never would have reported on Wright. But that’s not what happened did it? They played the same soundbytes over and over again. How many of Wright’s full sermons did you actually listen to?

The media was forced to report on Wright because there was footage. They took Obama’s word he had never heard Wright say anthing like that. Because, like you, they wanted to believe Obama had no idea of his close personal friends beliefs.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Again you’re making claims without backing them up. You haven’t showed that his book is largely recycled from his speeches. Chances are you never bothered to read the full book and instead got the cliff notes version. You haven’t bothered to read Dreams either which is why you had to lie about the context of the passage you quoted the other day.

It was demonstrated above, you chose not read what was linked. You could easily find many more examples if you went back over Obama’s speeches. But then you don’t want to know.

Frederick N.: The media was forced to report on Wright because there was footage. They took Obama’s word he had never heard Wright say anthing like that. Because, like you, they wanted to believe Obama had no idea of his close personal friends beliefs.

Oh yeah they were “forced” again if they were so biased for Obama they wouldn’t have reported it. You don’t know Wright’s personal beliefs you’re basing it on soundbytes.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Oh yeah they were “forced” again if they were so biased for Obama they wouldn’t have reported it. You don’t know Wright’s personal beliefs you’re basing it on soundbytes.

Wright’s ugly beliefs aren’t a secret. Except to his spirtual disciple Obama, who had know idea.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): No it was not demonstrated. You made a claim, expected me to do your homework and then said you didnt have other examples. If it was a repeat of his speeches I would have expected more than one page.

You asked for an example, one was given. You ignored it. If given more examples, you will ignore those too. Why describing Audacity, accurately, as made up largely of recycled campaign speeches offends you is a mystery.

misha: You have a point. There is that distinct scenario, which would make her guilty of premeditated murder. So both she and her husband have blood on their hands.The Bushes in general are thugs. Thanks for the segue.

Really quite irrelevant. In the United States we have this document called the Constitution, which in a short summary of a slightly more complicated process, makes the voters responsible for electing the President- regardless of whether you think voters are qualified or not.

“Given the pro-Obama media coverage the idea voters knew more about Obama than any other candidate in history is laughable.”

You can laugh as much as you want- you have yet to demonstrate any other candidate in recent history that as much was known about as Obama. Frankly the only candidate I can think of who more was known about was Reagan, and that was because of his extensive public past.

No previous candidate that I am aware of had written two biographies prior to his Presidential election.

You have yet to respond to my repeated requests to show any single candidate that has provided a more comprehensive list of the documents that you feel important than Obama. You like to cite McCains medical records, but casually gloss over his college record and birth certificate. You cite Bush’s college records gloss over his medical records and birth certificate.

“It’s not a “fishing expedition”, it’s general information known about other candidates”

I knew more about Obama when I voted for him, than I knew about Bush or Kerry when I voted in that election or Gore when I voted in that election. I knew tons more about Obama than I knew about Clinton or what his name, the Republican candidate.

Show me one Presidential candidate that has produced all the documents that you feel that Obama should have produced. Just one.

Frederick N.: You asked for an example, one was given. You ignored it. If given more examples, you will ignore those too. Why describing Audacity, accurately, as made up largely of recycled campaign speeches offends you is a mystery.

I didn’t ignore it. Lets see you claimed the whole book was a rehash of his speeches. So then you take a speech about education in general and then try to tie it to a page in the book about education. You then fail to state how exactly it compares and is a “rehash of his speeches”. I’m not offended, its just not accurate and you haven’t shown your statement to be accurate. Just as your earlier statement was deemed false and out of context I find your failure to back up what you say telling.

“After Wright’s crazy preaching came out, Obama, who attended Wright’s church for 20 years, was a personal friend of Wright’s, who called Wright his “spiritual mentor”, who titled a book after a line from a Wright sermon, said he had no idea Wright had such views, and had never heard any such preaching. The media accepted this ludicrous claim at face value then moved on. Really, if you don’t think the media is pro-Obama I don’t know what planet you live on.”

This was widely reported, and I doubt that there was a single voter who was not aware that Obama had attended Reverend Wright church.

Where was the breakdown? What did Fox News fail to report? What did Rush Limbaugh fail to rant about? What did Michael Savage fail to polute the newswaves with?

I would say that the vote showed that the voters had no interest in President Obama’s church. I certainly didn’t.

And no- right wing pundits- which are the media also- where quite vile and vociferous in not believing Obama and renouncing Wright as pretty much the Son of Satan. There was plenty of ‘media’ doubt about Obama and Wright.

That the voters chose to ignore it I think demonstrates the intelligence of the voters.

sfjeff: “took Obama’s word he had never heard Wright say anthing like that.”Hmmm whose word should they have taken?
And no- right wing pundits- which are the media also- where quite vile and vociferous in not believing Obama and renouncing Wright as pretty much the Son of Satan. There was plenty of media’ doubt about Obama and Wright.
That the voters chose to ignore it I think demonstrates the intelligence of the voters.

Actually, Wright’s words were taken completely out of context and anyone who had bothered to listen to the whole sermon would know that. Just like the recent situation with Shirley Sherrod, words that were used for rhetorical purposes to make a contrasting point were isolated and misrepresented.

Jeremiah Wright is a military veteran who served in the Marines and Navy for 6 years as a medical technician, before completing his education and entering the ministry.

There’s always a danger of reading what you expect to read rather than what was actually written. Frederick didn’t say the “whole book” was recycled speeches. What Frederick N. actually wrote was “Much of it is recycled speeches” and then quoting you, he used the word “largely.”

“Much” is a great troll word because it ambiguous, and it can be used without having to quantify the actual amount. Also because there is no concrete quantification, the argument over semantics can consume the forum (which is what trollery is all about).

I congratulate Frederick N. at being wildly successful in monopolizing the conversation during his stay.

Expelliarmus: Actually, Wright’s words were taken completely out of context and anyone who had bothered to listen to the whole sermon would know that. Just like the recent situation with Shirley Sherrod, words that were used for rhetorical purposes to make a contrasting point were isolated and misrepresented.
Jeremiah Wright is a military veteran who served in the Marines and Navy for 6 years as a medical technician, before completing his education and entering the ministry.

I have learned to doubt many of the things that I have encountered when I suspect a clear bias. I have seen videos where a person is trying to make a certain narrative has removed the beginning and middle by replacing it with a commentary. There are too many people who want others to inform them instead of making their own opinion after being given all the information.

Frederick N.:
The media was forced to report on Wright because there was footage. They took Obama’s word he had never heard Wright say anthing like that. Because, like you, they wanted to believe Obama had no idea of his close personal friends beliefs.

That’s utter bullshit. The media (primarily Fox, which is propaganda owned by a non-American, not a real news outlet) took a single quote out of context and played it until gullible fools thought that Rev. Wright was a racist (he wasn’t) and the United Church of Christ a radical group (it isn’t). That Obama managed to get past a smear job that not only went after him, but after a minister and a whole church congregation, is a tribute to his ability to build coalitions, not to the media.

You are a clueless, nasty, untruthful little troll, and I do not for one minute believe that you are a teenager. You make me sick.

Frederick N.:
I don’t share your faith in voters. Given the pro-Obama media coverage the idea voters knew more about Obama than any other candidate in history is laughable. It’s not a “fishing expedition”, it’s general information known about other candidates.

Frederick N.(13. Aug, 2010 at 4:01 pm):
I doubt statements for which there is reasonable cause to be skeptical. You believe everything Obama says at the same time you believe wild conspiracy theories about Bush.

Spreading information about a person which isn’t true falls into the same “vain” as a “conspiracy theory.”

You are attempting to push the conspiracy theory that Obama’s wasn’t healthy during his admitted drug use without providing any evidence to support your false claim.

I previously mentioned you lack of understanding of drug usage. However, you insist on discussing a topic that you haven’t done any research on as demonstrated by your continued misconception of drug use.

I am sorry you are not a skeptic, or are skeptical. What you seem to not understand is that you are arguing with skeptics, and because of your apparent bias you don’t realize this.

You posess a childlike innoncence. If the media doesn’t think something should be important, it probably won’t be.

Huh. Frederick N. are your sure about that. You seem to want to believe what ever someone tells you as being true. A good example of this is your apparent misunderstand of drug usage. You fail to realize that it is possible to get varying opinion on a particular topic, let alone the ability to research this. You can’t distinguish between “right to know” and an obvious invasion of privacy. Don’t even take time to consider what you are arguing about.

Frederick N. you wrote: If the media doesn’t think something should be important, it probably won’t be.

That is a perfect example of “childlike innocence.” That comment doesn’t read like the maturity that one would expect from an adult. There are always people reporting on different issues. It would be expected that an adult would find a different contention than a such a weak point. There are so many local, nation, international, foreign, and specialty publications that your comment is mute.

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