England got the better of Australia for the second time in succession as they beat comfortably beat the visitors 35-18 at Twickenham on Saturday in what has been described as their best performance since winning the World Cup in 2003.

Their were signs of great things to come a week ago when going down valiantly to New Zealand, but this time around there was no doubt that this may well be a new era for English rugby as they mixed their power up front with an expansive style of play.

Fullback Ben Foden has insisted its worth keeping their feet on the ground at this stage however. "Legends aren't made out of one result," he said.

"We need to keep working and getting better and better and hopefully by the time the World Cup comes around we will be there or thereabouts. It was a pretty convincing win and we can be pretty happy with the sort of rugby we played," Foden added.

Wallaby coach Robbie Deans, whose team came into the match following wins over the All Blacks and Wales, said that he could see a big game from England on the horizon.

"I have seen it growing in this England side. They played better against the All Blacks but were frustrated with where they got to. They will take a lot out of it," Deans said.

"They are broadening their game and had success with it against us. They took initiatives in speeding up the game that worked for them," he added.

England scrumhalf Ben Youngs had an outstanding game, as did Chris Ashton, who scored two fantastic tries. The second of which was started by Youngs behind their own tryline, with dynamic lock Courtney Lawes then drawing two men before releasing Ashton. The Saints flyer then put in an incredible 90m sprint to score a sensational try.

"The southern hemisphere teams have to take us seriously. That was our main aim to put ourselves up there and make sure we're competing with the big boys. That's what we've gone out to do. We've put down a marker now," said Foden.

Viewing 120 comments

Cooper's defense was once again atrociously bad, kudos to Johnno for doing his homework and exploiting that. Also, Australian forward pack continues to find itself on the backfoot, changes have to be made.

I wouldn't say england have peaked too early at all! top quality play, and the younger generation of players are starting to come through, with room to grow before the world cup, so proud to be english right now!

if you look he is tackled by Flood, Tindall and Palmer. They all stay on their feet during the tackle,apart from Palmer, who is over turned by australian players joining the ruck. But the ball was over turned. From what i understand this is allowed.

The two teams seemed to completely switch with each other. After a quarter of the match or so, England got to spreading the ball out wide - like the Wallabies usually do, and the Wallabies seemed to hardly ever get the ball out to their magnificent backline - like England usually neglect to do as well. Imagine if England had been giving the ball to the backs all along this year.

England also, for the first time in a very long time, looked to have an actual game plan. They seemed to have actually planned for set running lines depending on the situation, and it worked out for them. Dunno why people tend give Tindall a hard time, he played excellently, breaking the gainline on pretty much every occasion.

On a somewhat unrelated note, why is it Rod Kafer seems to be the only one in the Wallabies booth who seems to know what's going on? Maybe he ought to have Robbie Deans job...

Fair play to England - they do seem to peak at the right time (ie in the lead up to the WC - especially impressive as they are often completely shit for a year or two after the WC)

Amazing step by 9 to lead to that try - and was 14 smiling from miles out?!? Looked that way.

All of a sudden, England seem miles ahead of Ireland for the 6N.

Ireland, on the other hand, seem to be taking, as usual, the exact opposite trajectory to England re World Cups - brilliant the year after one (e.g. after the one England won, Ireland went to England and slaughtered them -scoring an amazing full length of the pitch try themselves). They were also brilliant last year.

Gotta hand it to the Poms this time, they looked like a modern rugby union team out there and suddenly seem streets ahead of the other "Home Unions" going by the last two weekends. Nothing dazzling but lots of ball, lots of speed and playing what's in front of them instead of safety first all the time.
Of the 3N sides on tour the Aussies, with their youth and erratic pack, were likely to be the most brittle and when Eng hit the ground running and then surprisingly kept going, it was catch-up rugby for a team that wasn't firing. The Oz backs can be brilliant but they need to get the ball and preferably to get it going forward. Pocock is the only definite World XV guy in the Oz pack and never plays badly but the Eng pack all played well and gave their backs plenty of ball and on the front foot.
Personally I think Aus were crucified at the tackle by the ref and I shared their obvious bewilderment at times, but I don't think it changed the result much.

Why the hell do England go on and celebrate like theyve just won the dam world cup or something?! eff sakes they win one test match and they're jumping around popping champagne and parading their trophy around. Honestly find some humilty, this is exactly why people find it so hard to support them. I think the Springboks will give them a huge wake up call in two weeks time

yeah there were 2 guys that made no attempt at all to roll away when genia went for that try, just the type of inconsistency thats spoiling the game. its gooten to the point that refs alot of the time have a bigger influence on the outcome of the game than the players do.
scrums have become a farce, half the time it looks like the ref is guessing who to give the penalty to.

Excellent performance by the England side, this is coming from a Kiwi.

It seems England have really embraced the new style of running rugby which is a real joy for us rugby fans to watch. So lets hope more International sides look to run the ball a lot more also, which would make the world cup in my country next year a cracker.

Typical convicts - letting down the southern hemisphere's hopes of a clean sweep of the northern nations! Seriously good game though - I thoroughly enjoyed Ashton's try, and thought England were magnificent in all aspects, particularly their running rugby.

I was a little mystified by the refereeing re ruck and maul (I think the refereeing across the weekend was poor), but thought the scrum battles were regulated well. I agree with a couple of other comments: Pocock, despite being a part of a poor scrum, is consistently immense (the next McCaw), and Quade Cooper, is very much the new Carlos Spencer, enigmatic and at times freakishly brilliant in attack, but is also terribly inconsistent, and at times can cost his team. In addition, his defence sucks.

England has a much stronger strategy than Australia and executed well for the win, so congratulations to them. The game would have been better and closer if not for the combination of bad Australian goal kicking and Craig Jouberts typically mind boggling refereeing.

England did a great job of neutralising Pocock which I think had a bigger influence on the result than has been ackownledged.

Great game from England, rugby needs them to be good and playing a good style.

Red roses take note - your boys did not win this in the scrum, they won it in the loose. Creaming ones pants over over Sheridan and scrum strength is all well and good, but if it means the forwards are too big and slow to get to the next ruck, then that big scrum is just a liability.

IMO Ashton needs to watch his celebrations though. He may suffer the wrath of the RugbyDump hordes for daring to show some excitement and attitude. Or does that only apply when NZ'ers showboat?

Quote from Doos "Why the hell do England go on and celebrate like theyve just won the dam world cup or something?! eff sakes they win one test match and they're jumping around popping champagne and parading their trophy around. Honestly find some humilty,"

Did you miss the match a couple of weeks ago between the All Blacks and Australia or something? Australia carried on exactly the same way (especially the Australian commentators). Not that there was anything wrong with it mind you, just trying to put some perspective on your comments.

England are shaping up as a really good team, really enjoyed this game. Australia are very lucky to be as high as 2nd place on the IRB ladder (or does this loss drop them to 3rd now?). Will be interesting to see how SA goes against the English.

Fuck. English 'form pattern' is really frustrating. They are shit for 3 years, then rise from the dead to go top everytime a WC is looming. Which is the exact opposite of France (and NZ too actually)...

6N is nice, but we (french people) would like to be competitive during world cups...

Ben Robinson was penalised quite rightly all game for holding the tackled player while on his feet. He actually let go once and was still penalised but what can you do. All 3 england players who tackled Genia held on.. but no penalty- mindboggling.

on the scrum- all penalties warranted as both sides were trying it on.

Ehhh it's a lose to England. Doesn't mean much to Australia, but helps England's confidence. They needed a win. The team to beat are the All blacks right now. England finally has a scoring threat at wing.

That came from Kurt Baker getting crucified on here for celebrating the match winning try at the commonwealth games final vs. England in the same way Ashton did. Naturally, it was mostly by disappointed England fans.

Anyway, well done England. Have to agree I thought Genia was hard done by in the lead up to Ashtons 2nd try, but well done Laws to help set it up. Makes a difference if your second rowers, etc. can play a little.

Makes a difference also if you play with the ball and not kick it away, i.e. it's not only time where you are attack but it denies the opposition the ball. Something England seemed (I've only seen the highlights)to do here and did in the 2nd 40 vs the All Blacks.

England played very well. Unexpectedly well, in fact - but I was more pleasantly surprised by the cohesion of the "new" blood Youngs, Ashton etc with the old hands. Even Flood looked excellent with ball in hand.
Unfortunately Australia looked bereft of ideas - I couldn't understand why the first two Aus penalties of the first half (near the sideline, and half-way, mind!) were shots at goal and not kicked to an attacking lineout!?! That lack of aggression gave England hope, I think.
Yes the refereeing was atrocious - not only inconsistent, but missing blatant infringements and dropped balls. However, this wasn't the reason we lost - we simply played terribly almost to a man (exceptions being Beale and Moore).

As a cazy kiwi expat its Good to see Mother England give the Criminal Elite a good royal spanking.
Big Martin Johnson really got these time clicking Courtney Laws looks good ball in hand, Aston becoming a house hold name.
Who every would have thought the POMMYS would keep ball in hand the Roo farkers defense must have gone walkabout. If Harry potter can pull a rabbit out his arse then Kurtley can pull a rocket out his arse, Man the boys got speed every since he gave up the Goon bag he's been on fire and looking better every game.

This result is not just good for English rugby but good for world rugby its just another kick in the teeth to negative journalism in this country.
Now that Stevie PDIVY jones and his capped Crusaders Have nothing to Whinge about in there Sunday times column they can focus all there energy on putting a end to the AB'S and the haka
YEAR RIGHT !!

Another thing as AB'S supporter was disappointed with the All Black management appealing against Kevvy's 4week band he deserved it. In my opinion it wasn't reckless but a intent to hurt.

Crikey, that Ashton can move his limbs fast. He's almost the opposite of Christian Cullen: Ashton's limbs are a blur when he's outpacing everyone else, where Cullen at full sprint looked like he was still jogging. Both fast, just look completely different. Nice seeing Ashton burn Mitchell.

One thing I hope to see sometime is Sonny Bill Williams taking on Quade Cooper's defensive channel / funnel. Should be a try or two in that one...

I think its going to be a titanic battle next weekend.
SA struggled defensively, wales punched to many holes in the midfield. SA miss forie? at center they needed that straight hard running. England cant afford to let SAFFA get there set piece cos there no better team at the rolling maul then SA. POMMYS have the players if they can get that go forward ball they have speed around the ruck with young and pace out wide., but its going to come down to what tight 5 dominates it always is with SA Bakkie & Matfield are like calk and cheese but complement each other in there style of play. In the lose forwards is going to be a real contest tom croft and co might lack the power of Speise, Juan but they got break down speed and need to get up and close them down quick dont fall into wales trap by giving space our they going to break tackles.

I think its going to be a titanic battle next weekend.
SA struggled defensively, wales punched to many holes in the midfield. SA miss forie? at center they needed that straight hard running. England cant afford to let SAFFA get there set piece cos there no better team at the rolling maul then SA. POMMYS have the players if they can get that go forward ball they have speed around the ruck with young and pace out wide., but its going to come down to what tight 5 dominates it always is with SA Bakkie & Matfield are like calk and cheese but complement each other in there style of play. In the lose forwards is going to be a real contest tom croft and co might lack the power of Speise, Juan but they got break down speed and need to get up and close them down quick dont fall into wales trap by giving space our they going to break tackles.

i'm in england and you'd think their performance was awesome from the press ect. sure they played better, and did their homework to exploit australias weaknesses, but by far the biggest weakness was the goal kicking. the play by the two teams was pretty even.
also the ref was quick to yellow card australia but england killed the ball like that a couple of times and the ref didn't even warn them.

Mat, I totally agree with your point about goal kicking.
The Auss havnt had a regular dependable kicker otherwise their job in Hong Kong would have been a lot easier.
Those who think England peaked too early clearly think they can't do better than this.
I'd say they've found their game plan: screw the notion of expansive vs conservative rugby, just play what's in front of you.
I'd like to see more options and combinations in the mid field. Perhaps Samoa is a good game to try things out. They are worthy opponents who didn't seem to need a coach.

I agree vinniechan you have to play what is in front Aus played lose so there was space to exploit if its going to be tight then you have to play that tight game. I have to say there is room for improvement in this England team Its going to be interesting to see how danny cipirani goes in super 15 has differently got the skill and running game. not taking any thing away from Flood tho.

Australia's yellow card was because giteu (spelling) dived in from the side and lay on the ball when england were about to score a try. it was a professional foul. I don't remember england doing this once?

@ Nathan, before ashtons 2nd try, genia got tackled less than a metre from the line, the 2 main tacklers did not release and made no attempt whatsoever to role away while a 3rd ripped the ball without first releasing the player.

The main tackler was Palmer who got cleared out. Flood released and re enaged and could play the ball from any side, and Tindall was a supporting defender to counter ruck
The key point was Genia got turned and couldn't get the ballback on the right side and he had no support, which was a quite big difference.

Great performance from England, what i loved about it is that despite the attempts from various Aussies on here to find an excuse, England beat them without the Aussies being able to have any excuse for the defeat - England played them off the park, and never let their players have enough ball to get going.

The aussies were taken to the cleaners fair and square, through Englands good play, rather than their bad play.

Long way to go for England, but the road to the RWC looks like a bright one.

Bad weekend for the Aussies, i bet that loss to the Kiwis in League hurt too!

Great performance from England, what i loved about it is that despite the attempts from various Aussies on here to find an excuse, England beat them without the Aussies being able to have any excuse for the defeat - England played them off the park, and never let their players have enough ball to get going.

The aussies were taken to the cleaners fair and square, through Englands good play, rather than their bad play.

Long way to go for England, but the road to the RWC looks like a bright one.

Bad weekend for the Aussies, i bet that loss to the Kiwis in League hurt too!

R120 said...Bad weekend for the Aussies, i bet that loss to the Kiwis in League hurt too!
Gives a high five there brother !! haha The golden glory the lime light was short lived the criminals have to go back to wot they gud at....... Roo fucking go get im Skippy.

R120 said...
Great performance from England, what i loved about it is that despite the attempts from various Aussies on here to find an excuse, England beat them without the Aussies being able to have any excuse for the defeat

How do you know the people making excuses on behalf of Australia are themselves Aussies?

I'm English and I think the turnover against Genia leading up to Ashton's second was won illegally. Palmer was lying all over the wrong side of the ruck and made no attempt at all to release him. Some good work by Tindall to dig it out though.

Anyway, I'm glad the ref let it go, otherwise rugby fans, whatever their nationality, would've missed a great try. TV producers are going to get vast mileage out of slow-mo-ing Ashton's facial expression where you see him face-on at about half-way. Nick Easter described it as "like a rhino mid-orgasm"...

No need for the racism, England have finally put in a 100% performance, for the first time in a long, long while. its proved to everyone that theres more than one way to beat the big 3 (ie not just pack + kicking) playing them at their own game and pressure works!

To answer your question, how: see my complete post that you responded to.
1. Palmer makes a tackle but does not release the player - that's not allowed and under the new breakdown laws you're given even less time to release.
2. As the ruck is formed, Palmer gets himself on the wrong side of it, preventing Australian players from getting to the ball. That's not allowed either.
3. Not mentioned in my earlier post, but having watched the highlights above again, I'll add that Toby Flood, after helping to make the tackle, then enters the ruck from the side. That's not allowed either.

In fact, the only England player contesting that ruck legitimately is Mike Tindall, who in my opinion made a great steal.

Then you say it's "hardly Englands fault that Genia played the ball on Englands side", which doesn't make sense. Genia was the ball-carrier. Until he was tackled he's not on England's side of anything. Once the ruck formed he'd have had to release the ball, which indeed he did, resulting in the turnover.

However, that same point leads you to suggest that "if he held onto it he may have got a penalty"... Presumably you mean he (Genia) may have given away a penalty?

As I said, as an England fan, I'm pleased England got away with it. As an objective rugby fan, I have to say they did indeed get away with an illegal turnover.

As an englishman i have to be proud of that performance and we are definitely building from the last 6N and summer tour. Have watched a lot of 3N this year and the Aussies have looked very exciting recently.

Both teams are still young and i am hoping for real fireworks from both come the RWC. At the end of the day the better team won in a high quality encounter.

Beale and Ashton would both be in my dream team back 3 at the moment, well played both, Ashtons Second SUBLIME!

More of the same should answer the doubters! 2:03; Does Matt Giteau have descension issues, was it Kristy with a fake moustache (played like it was) or did someone get Peter Andre to do a voice over for a chuckle???

"but it would be much appreciated if you posted the ABs vs Scotland highlights."

Wasn't much in the way of highlights, were there? Aside from Scotland making a few easy breaks through the AB defensive line, it was pretty much as you'd expect for a 49-3 slaughtering. That and the awful-looking injury to Max Evans just before the end of the match.

In any case, there's a requests section on this site you might try visiting.

wonder if the game would have been different if the reffing had been more consistant.
Giteau got sent off for not rolling away while england were hot on attack. england score 13 points while hes off.
later on 2 english players commit the exact same offence if not worse and get absolutely nothing.

Anonymous complaining about the reffing: Australia had been warned about repeated infringements at the breakdown. That meant that the next blatant offense would result in a card. Voila, there's Giteau's card. England hadn't gotten on the ref's bad side, so they were spared.

good greif, the ref favoured England at the breakdown, but that often happens when a teams playing at home.
England played the ball on the ground a few times, didn't release and weren't punished.
If Australia did the same thing they were being penalised.
I thought Robinson in particular was harshly penalised. At one point he made a tackle, threw his arms to both sides to show he'd released then grabbed the ball from the tackled player.
It's a gray area.
If a guy makes a tackle but doesn't gop to ground doing it, then lets go of the guy while still standing over him, then grabs the ball, has he released? Because that's what Robinson did twice and he got penalsied both times. If pocock did that he'd get away with it.

Not taking anything away from Egnland, they deserved the win Australia's defence simpyl wasn't good enough.

They confirm the first good impression given vs the AB. Sound like MJ is finally finding the right balance between the forward/back lines. The game play was attractive (actually the most enjoyable to watch of all NH teams) and consistent.
As usual England is slowly improving before an important event.

Well, the breakdown that lead to Ashton's second try was completely legal.
The tackler, Palmer, tackled the player and turned him in the tackle. The Aussie scrum half didn't release the ball (and so if anything should have been an England penalty). Flood aids in the tackle and when he hits the floor stands up and immediately starts rucking. This is allowed, watch McCaw or Pocock do it over and over in a game when they are the first to the breakdown. By this time, in a normal situation, the ball carrier would need to release the ball. However, in this situation, the ball carrier wouldn't maybe due to the fact he was injured, maybe due to the fact he would have looked like a complete tit. (It is not Palmer holding it in, look at the arms not releasing the ball (and without being racist), the skin colors do not match). Therefore neither the tackler or the ball carrier could release the player or the ball.
Then Tindall comes in and cleans out. Again, legally. And what happened from then on was pure class :).

The difference between this event and the play leading to Giteau's sin binning is that in the first half, England had run the whole pitch and then were tackled. They were going forward and were vastly outnumbering the Aussies. For Giteua to end up on the wrong side of the ruck should have been a red card and then a penalty try. (Although, I am pleased it wasn't, because then the Poms would have been making up excuses for Englands absolutely destroying them).

Anyway, the win was really amazing. However, if any of you watched the full match, you would agree with me in saying that England could have scored about 4-5 more tries, very easily. So although the try count matched, Australia got off lightly.
Flood in my opinion played amazing, he was shipping balls all over the place and smashing into tackles and kicking like a king.

There is so much more to come :)

For the world cup, the SH should be quaking in their boots. England have been training together for maybe the last month in prep for these Autumn internationals and have produced (finally) some amazing rugby due to confidence in their own ability and team work.

The SH are together for almost 3 months, due to the tri nations and then various matches before coming to the NH.

Next year, Eng and the NH will have been together for 3 months building up to the WC and they will all be playing matches regularly and will be on a level of the SH in terms of match prep. The World Cup is going to be amazing!!!

Well, the breakdown that lead to Ashton's second try was completely legal.
The tackler, Palmer, tackled the player and turned him in the tackle. The Aussie scrum half didn't release the ball (and so if anything should have been an England penalty). Flood aids in the tackle and when he hits the floor stands up and immediately starts rucking. This is allowed, watch McCaw or Pocock do it over and over in a game when they are the first to the breakdown. By this time, in a normal situation, the ball carrier would need to release the ball. However, in this situation, the ball carrier wouldn't maybe due to the fact he was injured, maybe due to the fact he would have looked like a complete tit. (It is not Palmer holding it in, look at the arms not releasing the ball (and without being racist), the skin colors do not match). Therefore neither the tackler or the ball carrier could release the player or the ball.
Then Tindall comes in and cleans out. Again, legally. And what happened from then on was pure class :).

The difference between this event and the play leading to Giteau's sin binning is that in the first half, England had run the whole pitch and then were tackled. They were going forward and were vastly outnumbering the Aussies. For Giteua to end up on the wrong side of the ruck should have been a red card and then a penalty try. (Although, I am pleased it wasn't, because then the Poms would have been making up excuses for Englands absolutely destroying them).

Anyway, the win was really amazing. However, if any of you watched the full match, you would agree with me in saying that England could have scored about 4-5 more tries, very easily. So although the try count matched, Australia got off lightly.
Flood in my opinion played amazing, he was shipping balls all over the place and smashing into tackles and kicking like a king.

There is so much more to come :)

For the world cup, the SH should be quaking in their boots. England have been training together for maybe the last month in prep for these Autumn internationals and have produced (finally) some amazing rugby due to confidence in their own ability and team work.

The SH are together for almost 3 months, due to the tri nations and then various matches before coming to the NH.

Next year, Eng and the NH will have been together for 3 months building up to the WC and they will all be playing matches regularly and will be on a level of the SH in terms of match prep. The Wor

Well, the breakdown that lead to Ashton's second try was completely legal.
The tackler, Palmer, tackled the player and turned him in the tackle. The Aussie scrum half didn't release the ball (and so if anything should have been an England penalty). Flood aids in the tackle and when he hits the floor stands up and immediately starts rucking. This is allowed, watch McCaw or Pocock do it over and over in a game when they are the first to the breakdown. By this time, in a normal situation, the ball carrier would need to release the ball. However, in this situation, the ball carrier wouldn't maybe due to the fact he was injured, maybe due to the fact he would have looked like a complete tit. (It is not Palmer holding it in, look at the arms not releasing the ball (and without being racist), the skin colors do not match). Therefore neither the tackler or the ball carrier could release the player or the ball.
Then Tindall comes in and cleans out. Again, legally. And what happened from then on was pure class :).

The difference between this event and the play leading to Giteau's sin binning is that in the first half, England had run the whole pitch and then were tackled. They were going forward and were vastly outnumbering the Aussies. For Giteua to end up on the wrong side of the ruck should have been a red card and then a penalty try. (Although, I am pleased it wasn't, because then the Poms would have been making up excuses for Englands absolutely destroying them).

Anyway, the win was really amazing. However, if any of you watched the full match, you would agree with me in saying that England could have scored about 4-5 more tries, very easily. So although the try count matched, Australia got off lightly.
Flood in my opinion played amazing, he was shipping balls all over the place and smashing into tackles and kicking like a king.

There is so much more to come :)

For the world cup, the SH should be quaking in their boots. England have been training together for maybe the last month in prep for these Autumn internationals and have produced (finally) some amazing rugby due to confidence in their own ability and team work.

The SH are together for almost 3 months, due to the tri nations and then various matches before coming to the NH.

Next year, Eng and the NH will have been together for 3 months building up to the WC and they will all be playing matches regularly and will be on a level of the SH in terms of match prep. The Wor

Wow, forgive me Doctober, but I didn't actually read all of that.
The first thing though, is that you are wrong about Palmer.
He has to release the tackeld player once he makes the tackle.
Release and roll away.
He never did that, if you can't see that your blind.
He clearly makes the tackle, then holds on to Genia the whole time, never lets go, turns hima fter the tackle and attempts to play the ball.
Completely illegal.
But again, home town advantage, the ref let it go.

Jono, the thing is that first the ball carrier has to release the ball. Palmer was not restricting Genia's arms, he tackles him around the middle and pins Genia on his front. He is legally allowed to hold him like this until the ball is released, then he may get up and start rucking.
I agree with you after the ball is released. However, when the Aussies were rucking over, there is no way he can get up. Depending on the discretion of the referee he makes the call.
Throughout the game, he let a lot of similar calls go, for both teams to do with not releasing the tackler. If he was to do that, his reffing would have been inconsistent; which I believe wasn't throughout the game.

(Nice to hear from someone on these forums who knows the rules though :) )

Aparently horrendous conditions though Tony, at one point the Munster half back put up a bomb, which went bacwards from his poisition ten metres and he had to run backwards to catch it.
I would read exactly sweet fuck all into that game.
Doctober, that's an interesting interpretation.
I don;t agree, the act of releasing the ball after being tackled and the tackler rolling away are two seperate things, two seperate offences.
If we appleid your logic, all any tackler would have to do is wrap up the ball and then he could just stay holding on in the tackle forever. The tackled player can't release if the tackler is holding the ball, and the tackler doesn't have the right to play the ball.
Watch Palmer, he gets to his feet and immediatly plays the ball, he's standing there on his feet, with his back to the Aussies.
That means he's playing the ball from an aillegal position, ebcause if he;'s the tackler and he's released, he then has to go around and enter the ruck legally. He never did that and he was clearly playing the ball.
Genia must release at some point, or how did England get the ball.
Palmer shouldn;t have been doing what he was doing though, which won the turnover.

But this is a small thing, the ref may have favoured England a bit at the breakdown, I persoanlly think he did.
However, Australia didn't deserve to win anyway, they weren't strong enough defensivley, missed far too many tackles (thanks Cooper).

doctober - you're confused. the tackler must release the tackled player immediately. This gives the tackled player an opportunity to place the ball. Palmer did not release immediately and never allowed Genia to place the ball.

Doctober, a tackler can't hang on until the player releases, he must let go once a tackle is made, which occurs when a player's momentum is ceased and he has gone to ground.
The act of the tackled player placing the ball is a completely seperate issue to the tackler rolling away.
Also, a player having made a tackle must not only release the tackled player, he must then enter the ruck legally.
In Palmer's case that would have meant running around behind the English defensive line and entering the ruck from the correct channel.
In other words he broke two laws.
He never released the tackled player and he never entered the ruck legally.

doctober said...
"Anyway, the win was really amazing. However, if any of you watched the full match, you would agree with me in saying that England could have scored about 4-5 more tries, very easily. So although the try count matched, Australia got off lightly."

The rational way to look at this is, despite playing better than they have for yonks England completely botched a couple of other chances and didn't deserve any more points than they ended up with. If they could've scored them "very easily" then why didn't they?
I also agree with all the comments about England being very lucky with the Genia tackle and an Australian penalty there might've made things very different. So be happy with the points you got.
btw I'm not Australian.

the whole rule about releasing the player is to allow the man with the ball the opportunity to place the ball.
the rule now is that even players on their feet must also release the player completely before going back in for the ball.
Genia had 3 guys committing penalizable offences and it wasnt picked up. like the hartly try the week before, there were half a dozen things which could have been called in the direct lead up to that try yet none were.
something seriously needs to be done about the reffing.

@ Doctober - you're mistaken about Palmer being allowed to hold on to the tackled player. Hopefully other explanations above have clarified that for you.

Genia did eventually release the ball, which is how it ended up in English hands.

Anyway, you're jumping the gun a bit on England's world cup chances aren't you! We've won two matches against the same team, (who we actually seem to have a bit of a hex over now, which is nice :). But that's it so far.

If England resoundingly beat Samoa and South Africa, as well as at least three of the other six nations teams, THEN we can start dreaming about being world-beaters again......

Palmer does not have to go round and enter the ruck from the back feet. As the tackling player he simply has to release the player holding the ball and then he may stand up and compete for it, where ever he is. People need to check the rules before they start shouting them out!

Actually Jimbo that rule is almost void now. If ther tackler has to roll away, it makes the playing the ball from any direction superfluous.
If he's left the ruck, moved away, he can't come back into it from any direction.
It makes the rule about the tackler playing it from any direction almost moot.

Ashton's try, top 10 at least for England all time? You don't see too many length of the pitch efforts at test level nowadays.

Traditionally I don't cheer for the limies but you have to love the rugby they are playing and the players playing it. Youngs, Foden, Lawes and Ashton have to be some of the most exciting young players in the world.

Bill, the player only has to roll away if he is impeding the opposition. I also mentioned nothing about him leaving the ruck and re-entering. IF Palmer had been able to get to his feet he could have challenged for the ball from anywhere (after releasing the player) until cleared out by the opposition as he was the first tackler. The IRB website makes this quite clear.

Yeah but he went to the ground.
He was on the wrong side of the ruck and clearly impeding the opposition, he's the main reason they couldn't get to Genia.
He then got to his feet, without rleasing, then lost his feet again, still without releasing.
Everything he did in that ruck was illegal.
Flood too never released. It was illegal. It's obvious.

I really have a long list of complaints about the reffing. Too long for this area...
My thoughts: terrible reffing, Eng overall gaining some advantage from it (though australia got the rub in the first 10 min but didn't capatilise).
I don't doubt the skills of the English team, but Joubert made some signficant calls or no-calls in the game.
Could have been a different result with different ref on the day, which is not a good thing.

England played all the rugby and were comfortably 10 points better than Australia on the day. If there was a different ref then he might have made different decisions but England would still have won. The ref did not cost Australia 18 points, no ref can do that. If it was a case of England sneaking home by one or two points then you might be right.

Bill, if you read my entire comment you'll see that I agree that what Palmer did was illegal and the penalty should have been awarded to AUSTRALIA. My comment about the laws was aimed at Tom several comments above who said that Palmer needed to leave the ruck and reenter it from the back feet. Again I will capitalise this for you... IF, I say IF Palmer had been able to get to his feet he was legally entitled to challenge for the ball from any position as he was the tackler. However, he makes no attempted to roll away or get to his feet, therefore it is a penalty to Australia. Please read entire comments... :)