I'm a huge fan of the M&M science fantasy universe, so understandably I'm very attracted to the notion of the Forge, and I eagerly read any and all news on projects aiming to recreate this town.

But based on all projects I've seen so far, I've noticed that none of the creators ever went with NWC's concept of superpowered units with high cost and low population. The units were always anywhere from up there with the best of the tier to downright weak. I mean, at least half of the appeal of Forge would be for the units to be OP, as this town was never intended for competitive play anyway, it was just supposed to be in the campaign as an obstacle for the player to overcome. I do realize that balancing the town will be necessary if it ever gets made (in HotA for example), but why not try going this particular route that NWC intended? The town is already so different from all the others, that adding yet another difference won't hurt that much. Also, I think balancing around smaller unit populations is very much possible.

Xfing said:I'm a huge fan of the M&M science fantasy universe, so understandably I'm very attracted to the notion of the Forge, and I eagerly read any and all news on projects aiming to recreate this town.

But based on all projects I've seen so far, I've noticed that none of the creators ever went with NWC's concept of superpowered units with high cost and low population. The units were always anywhere from up there with the best of the tier to downright weak. I mean, at least half of the appeal of Forge would be for the units to be OP, as this town was never intended for competitive play anyway, it was just supposed to be in the campaign as an obstacle for the player to overcome. I do realize that balancing the town will be necessary if it ever gets made (in HotA for example), but why not try going this particular route that NWC intended? The town is already so different from all the others, that adding yet another difference won't hurt that much. Also, I think balancing around smaller unit populations is very much possible.

Holy cow! Yeah, this is sort of the balance I was thinking about. If compensated by low weekly growth, this could fly.

Except for the Dreadnought of course, it's more like a T8 unit than a T7 upgrade

That said, I could live with the Juggernaut's stats being as they are, but for the Dreadnought. Stronger than Archangels alright. I also love the crap outta the model for the Jug/Dreadnought, these are just beautiful!

Strong forge was my dream too. This was were more technology of the Ancients was introduced. Sadly none of the teams tried to make it like it was suppost to be. You can make it look more autentic by combining creatures from forge and factory factions. Somewhere it was stated that even low lv creatures were as strong as angels so i used azure, crystal, rust, faerie dragon stats on 7-4lv creatures and titans, nagas, dendroids stats on 1-3lv creatures. All have the the same prices as creatures that were used for stats but only lv 7 uses gold and crystals for purchase. Others have increased gold cost instead of other resource cost. Non upgraded version has stats and cost halved. All growth is 1 per week but i dont know how to reduce growth when you build castle and grail. I used factory faction cause it looks more like original forge. Still there is a lot of work to do. Its just a demo verion. I still hope that those who know how to create mods can make forge autentic cause i dont know how to edit a lot of things. People had the forge faction files. Why did you edit the town? Zombies could use some editing to look more like original ones from screenshots. Goblins look ok but in screenshots upgraded version has a blaster rifle so it needs editing (also i need to replace zombies and goblins cause goblins are lv 1). Pyros, minotaurs are great. Ogres need some editing with rocket launchers like in screenshots. Upgraded naga needs to have 6 hands. Juggernaut seems ok cause its suppost to be fully mechanical but its a flying unit so i still need to replace naga building with juggernaut cause in factory faction it is mixed up.

salubri said:Why did you edit the town? Zombies could use some editing to look more like original ones from screenshots.

nwc had a lot of older versions of stuff that got refined until the final release was different from what they originally worked with. it's called improving, and everyone who creates stuff does it. there's no reason to be satisfied releasing substandard work that represents your ideas. you should want the best version of your work displayed for others. for some people, that means changing the lineup. for others, that means refining what's already there. "original" doesn't automatically mean "best".

What do you think about such a setup? Every unit is top-notch within its tier, beating out all competition in at least one aspect. The town in this form would be wickedly overpowered (I can see it even now), but the effectiveness of the army would be dampened by its ungodly costs and low growth. I'd be happy to see the Forge in such a form. What do you think? What about the special abilities of the units?

Changing stats is easy. In Era in VCMI. Personally I think if you want forge you must redesign all game because this city completly dont fit and breaking game design. But in VCMI its possible because we have some technical cities. You can play them the same time.

What do you think about such a setup? Every unit is top-notch within its tier, beating out all competition in at least one aspect. The town in this form would be wickedly overpowered (I can see it even now), but the effectiveness of the army would be dampened by its ungodly costs and low growth. I'd be happy to see the Forge in such a form. What do you think? What about the special abilities of the units?

Grunt/Foot Soldier no obstacle penalty/no obstacle penalty, shoot twice (cause of blasters and blaster rifles)
Cyber Dead/Cyber Zombie remove disease cause they are now more mechanical. Maybe add a little magic dmg resist (golem type) like 10-20%
Pyro/Pyromaniac no retaliation for upgraded version.
Stinger/Bruiser it's ok but no wall dmg. Instead of that AOE atack like death cloud. (missle explosion)
Jump Trooper/Jump Soldier replace abilities with harpie abilities. Strike and return/ strike and return, no retaliation.
Tank/Heavy Tank sounds ok but i want to nerf it to cerberus type atack and add no retaliation to upgraded version like upgraded nagas have. (i like that you didnt remove nagas ranged weapons like in concept art. she can have them and still be hand to hand fighter)
Juggernaut/Dreadnought mechanical (so no morale or luck, certain spells have no effect) golem type (gold and diamond) magic dmg resist. Immune to slow.

I dont mind replacing some of the buildings in forge like people in DF2 did but they are trying to add buildings that were in official concept art so it still is autentic. I mean look at this http://imgur.com/Mg2Y7Bs this is even better than 3do was planing i think. Do they still work on that? Cause posts in that section of forum are rare.

thanks. that screenshot is from my forge project. i make/modify/add map objects, so forge map objects will be included(as what you see in the screen). the release is years off, though. although, i may finish the forge project before i complete my lovecraft faction, since most of the work is already done.

i only need to know 3d to remake the forge castle, for the townscreen. it's the only thing still flawed(but don't quote me on that, as it's been awhile). i cannot change the lighting of the current one without screwing the whole def. any changes i make in photoshop would have to exactly match each of the 3 defs for the townscreen castle; which would be impossibly difficult and tedious to complete without the help of 3d.

after that issue is fixed, i'd have to further tinker with the positioning tool that i got from oxfea, that for some reason i cannot get to work.

after that, i can continue making the remaining progress needed, to finish the project for release(artifact scripting, object replacing, puzzle map, completing forge map objects; of which i have many yet to do/replace).

Xfing said:
But based on all projects I've seen so far, I've noticed that none of the creators ever went with NWC's concept of superpowered units with high cost and low population. The units were always anywhere from up there with the best of the tier to downright weak. I mean, at least half of the appeal of Forge would be for the units to be OP, as this town was never intended for competitive play anyway, it was just supposed to be in the campaign as an obstacle for the player to overcome.

As a "yet-another-man-with-Forge-project", I can answer.
It's just not interesting.
OK, I'll waste hundreds of hours for creating a town..for what? For town that is supposed to be "campaign-only" or "legal ingame cheat"? No, it's not an option.

yeah, not for me, either. making/having a town that you can't use except for campaigns is a waste of resources(not to mention, a town slot), imo. it'd be that much more fun trying to beat them in any solo map. or, playing as forge, and having an epic opposition to kick off heroeswar3.

One overpower city was in HI and HII and it was mistake. The best option is ban all medieval cities and run only technical mods for VCMI. Variuos forges, Covenant and other this type. It will be with sense. One fit to another.

Baronus said:One overpower city was in HI and HII and it was mistake. The best option is ban all medieval cities and run only technical mods for VCMI. Variuos forges, Covenant and other this type. It will be with sense. One fit to another.

But now you can edit cities for balance. You couldnt do that in H1 or H2. High price, low growth, strong units. Covenant? Explain to me how that one fits into might and magic universe? Forge is a town that came when might and magic 7 ended when siding with evil. If you want towns that make sence then you need to take a look at might and magic. Cove is a town that pirates of Regna own. Abyss could be a town that Tritons from MM8 own. Asylum could be converted to a town owned by the dark elves of Jadamane.

If you edit other cities forge will not be strong :-) Where is sense?
Covenant is techno city like forge and easy can be add with fited story. But forge and peasant? How looks fight tridents contra tanks? And I think about sense like this. Not about story. Forge faction was removed because player protested, dont fit to knights, peasants, pikemans etc.