I don't know where to start. I don't think this is ppd but I don't know what it is and there wasn't a better forum for it.

I just delivered a beautiful baby boy on May 20. I ended up with a emergency c-section. I also have an awesome 20 month old daughter and 2 wonderful older boys (11yrs & 13 yrs) When I was carrying my daughter I couldn't wait to meet her, I knew her before she arrived and when I delivered her I fell in love instantly. I had a birth plan, we filmed her birth & saved the placenta to plant under her tree. It has been awesome from day 1. She was very high needs, she cried alot but she was always in my arms, in the bundler or in the sling.

The thing is with my son there wasn't really any anticipation. I wanted him but it wasn't "I can't wait". I made a birth plan but we didn't get around to discussing it with the doctor. We didn't get to film his birth because of the c-section. And now even as I hold him I don't feel that "overwhelming" love for him that I did for her. I do care about him. He is really alot easier than she was, I can actually lay him down & not have to carry him all the time. The thing is that since I don't have the same feelings for him that I did for her I am now feeling alot of guilt over the differences in the births & etc. After a month I still feel like I don't know him. I feel like a horrible mother. I feel like I don't deserve him, he is so beautiful & sweet, he deserves a mother that not only love him but is in love with him as well. I don't ever want him to feel less than or unloved. Why can''t I fall in love with him?

I don't feel like I have described my feelings fully, it's hard to explain but at this point I feel as if I'm just ranting.

Hi Raihana:
I am so sorry you have been feeling this way about your little baby boy. I read once that guilt is pretty much a natural part of motherhood and parenthood. Now, in a way, I can empathize with you because I had an emergency c-section too... and that was after I had planned to have my daughter through homebirth! I felt so sad and mourned the loss of not having the beautiful birth that I had imagined. Then, I worried a ton about all the drugs she had in her system from the delivery, and the pain meds they gave me that were passed on to her through my breastmilk. I felt like I had no control in any sense over anything that happened and that bothered me considerably - so that was another thing I mourned about. Then I had major guilt over any trauma my little baby experienced. I also didn't get to videotape her birth like I had planned, or even see her be born. I could go on and on about the things I felt upset and guilty about. Just know that you may be experiencing a lot of sadness over the trauma of your birthing experience and that may be what is making it harder to feel the love that you already have for your precious little baby. It is obvious that that you love him. I would recommend some flower remedies to help you bond with your son in the manner that you want. And I would simply just talk to him and tell him exactly how you feel because he can understand you on some level. There is also a book called "birthing from within", by an author called Pam England who is a midwife and counselor for women dealing with situations just like your's. You can do a search on google for the "birthing from within" website and get more info. Maybe there is someone there that you can speak with or email that has some loving words to share with you. But let me know if you want some more info on flower remedies. Maybe even do some meditations with your son asleep in your arms... where you visualize the overwhelming love you have for him... It sounds too that because he is a more easy going baby and doesn't "demand" your attention as much as your daughter did that you mistake it for not giving him "enough" since he doesn't ask for a lot. Maybe you were so used to giving your daughter your everything because she asked for it and this new experience with your son is totally different and you are simply figuring out the dance of your relationship to one another. Some dance steps take longer to learn than others but once learned, you enjoy them and the steps come easily! You and your darling son are going to be just fine. And I am not saying this to trivialize your feelings. Just trust that the love you feel for him is flowing the way it should. Peace.

Raihana: I've been wanting to reply to this for a few days now, but every time I try, the baby wakes up!!

I only have one baby, so I don't have the comparison factor that you're dealing with, but I know what it's like to have a baby that you love but aren't in love with. A couple of months ago I posted a thread about it somewhere and got some really validating and supportive answers. Let me see if I can find it...

Little by little this babe of mine is growing on me. It's a complex relationship. I think sometimes you fall in love immediately (there is love at first sight!) but sometimes it takes a while to develop. And because nobody talks about it, those of us who are in the middle of it feel guilty, wrong, depressed, bad... It has helped me a lot to be honest with my myself and my partner about it.

I remember a bit in the Sears' Baby Book about "recovering from a bad start" or something like that. It really resonated with me (I didn't have an emergency C-sec, but had a birth that was a little tough, and horrible PPD immediately after). Sears wrote that you should do with your babe what you would do with anyone you were falling in love with - take long walks together, look sweetly in his eyes, cuddle up all day. I know you said he isn't high needs and doesn't need to be held all day - maybe you should carry him as much as you can anyway? Take baths with him. Give him massages. Take naps with him when you can (I know you have a house full of other kids!).

And, talk to him. I spent a lot of those early days crying with my baby, telling him the story of his birth and how much I was trying to stay connected to him. Apologizing for not being the mama I wanted to be, thanking him for loving me anyway.

You are not a horrible mother. I've had that feeling myself on too many occasions, and I know what it feels like. But you are doing the very best you can and it really means that you're a great, connected mother that you're having these feelings - if you weren't, you wouldn't know the difference, right? If you weren't, you wouldn't care. You have high standards for your relationships with your children. This one is just happening in a different way, it's own pace.

Well, you could be me, the way you talk. My firstborn was intense, we bonded before she was born, I am deeply in tune with her. But all kids, all births, all pregnancies, and the mother herself, is different each time. Are different each time. What a convoluted sentence.
My #2 dd is very mellow, and I felt unneeded for a long time after she was born. I had to work at the bonding for months, and I had to remember that she wasn't the same as #1dd. So while my first dd always wanted me in the tub with her, my second thought it was the WEIRDEST thing and seemed very uncomfortable. So I had to figure out what she responded to. That means reading ten books in a row, which both like, or a long full body massage, which my oldest found too stimulating. I worried for months about my relationship with my younger one, until she became sick. Then I thought about her constantly, did research to find new ways to help her, and I discovered that the bonding had crept up on us secretly. With her first big illness, I realized we were ok. It's been better ever since.
I had issues with her birth, with the lack of bonding during pregnancy, with her personality. I learned to adjust to her and the type of mom she needed, and how so much of what she was, was opposite what I was used to w/DD#1. I also realized I was different, that my feelings were a different type of love-not that intense, on-fire, kill-anyone-who-makes-her-cry kind of mothering...but this warm, flowing, deep like a lazy river kind of love. Both are great.
There are so many books about fussy babies (I know, I 've bought most of them trying to deal with my firstborn) but none about the mellow child. I intend to write that book one day. They come with a unique set of challenges, to say the least.
To be more specific, I found lots of skin touch to help with bonding. Whispering lots of love messages. Sinking my nose in her hair and inhaling deeply. I don't feel those overwhelming milk letdowns with this one that I experienced with the first, so I think her contact with me isn't affecting me as much, but it is. It's so much more subtle. I've had to listen closely. Watch closely. And give myself credit. Be easy on yourself. Be the lazy river.
It ain't easy being the intense mother for one and the hands-off mom for the other, is it?
These are great boards, aren't they?

I am sorry to hear about your feeling blue with the birth of your baby boy. It is a familiar story to me though--I think those of us who read magazines like Mothering are so committed to planning for that ideal natural birth, that one our plans are surprised or interupted by a c-section, we can feel let-down about the birth, like we failed our baby--I've seen more than one freind depressed over a situtation like this.

It may also be, from your description of your little boy, that he's not as demanding as your little girl. It is human nature for parents to sometimes bond more with child who is more demanding. I hope you can come to see your little boy as a blessing in that his mellowness and easy-going nature can be a beautiful counterpoint to your daughter's colorful personality.

If you're feeling some post-partum, I hope you will consider some support regimim in the form of herbs, etc. I did this after the birth of my second child, my daughter--it made me a better, brighter Mom for her, for my son, and a better wife to my husband, and a better me to myself!

I also think the fact you expressed your concerns to this group, means you are a thoughtful, caring mother, who really does love that baby boy. Good luck to you! Your kids are lucky to have you as a mother!

(((((HUGS)))))) to you dear Raihana...with my 2nd, i felt different, too. I still get the strange feeling that she's not real...
Please know you are and can be a good mom, it just takes time to understand what lesson we are facing.

Dear Raihana- I want to share my story, because it sounds so similar to yours. My first child came out into the world with her eyes wide open, perfect pink skin, nursing like a pro, and just ready to bond and get to know me. I thought about her constantly while I was pregnant and after she was born, we spent months just nursing, smiling and staring at eachtother. I KNEW her so well, she revealed every emotion to me, and 4 years later, still does, even the not so fun ones...BUT, my second child, who is 9 months old, was a total shock to me, even after 9 months of pregnancy. I just didn't have the luxury and time to just sit and dream about her and wonder and be emotionally and mentally ready. After an awesomely short labor, she was in my arms, crying LUSTFULLY and all red and swollen (i didn't see her eye color for days...) and I felt relieved, but I'm thinking "who is this kid?". And she slept for the first few weeks, as I was dying to get to know her and feel that same intensity as with the first one. It's totally not the same, but I really am loving having a different kind of relationhsip with her. I think I am and will be a really different mom to each of my girls. I went through the guilt, but I realize it is just a waste of energy and I'm sure since you are reaching out to other moms, you are bonding with your baby. Give him a chance to reveal himself to you.... he will.

I thought when I read your post that this child has a very different soul-bond with you, and perhaps a very different previous-life history with you, than you have with your other child.

I believe we all have different reasons for incarnating with the families that we do....and sometimes there karmic-type debts and issues are carried, and these kinds of things may effect your feelings, naturally.

What may help is to be quietly determined to enjoy the process of discovering who these little beings are who come to us no matrer how it seems now, and just see what they may bring with them, and learn how to love them by way of being open to who they are. Perhaps the soul bond with this child is stronger for this one with his father, which could show up much later on in his childhood...

just a thought or two...

Also, you may need some support from things like flower essences, and/or mood-enhancing herbs like St. John's Wort regularly to support brain chemical balance, for if you are having a low on seratonin, that could definately effect your ability to feel that closeness as well. Just the added stress of another child may be more than you realize, you may not be fully aware of the stress factores that are in your world now.

so...more power to you! I suggest gently reflecting on your experience and noticeing what it is, and in this away continue to be gentle with yourself, and support your self in this always-new motherhood journey...

What was your birth like with your daughter? From my own experience of an emergency c-section with my son, I felt that the connection with him was much more a 'mind' connection than a heart connection at first. You know you're 'supposed to' love your baby, so you do what you think you should. The feelings from the heart and gut come later. I had a natural waterbirth at home with my daughter, and I immediately felt a much more visceral love for her. The way the birth turns out can really influence how you feel about the baby, on a very organic, hormonal level.

I agree with the previous posting -- *Birthing from Within* has some wonderful suggestions for dealing with what happened during birth. You also might look at *Silent Knife: Caesarean Prevention and VBAC*, which helped me a lot in processing the cesarean experience.

Another thing: I'd say you have a right to feel tired, and not feel as much energy after this pregnancy. You've got 3 older kids demanding your love and attention, too. It's a great gift to your son that he has 3 older siblings, but the attention he gets from you might be a little more diluted than it was for your daughter.

Don't beat yourself up -- it will all come in time. My view is the cesarean may be one cause of the feelings of disconnection. C-section can be very hard to accept. All we can do is to try to find the gift in the experience, the things we can learn from it that we couldn't have learned in any other way. Even 4 years later I still wonder, 'did the cesarean have to happen?' but I also think I have gained from the experience. I trust you will find the same thing. Your son will have the gift of a mother who has learned something valuable from the cesarean experience. And of course you will feel great love for him on many levels. It is just a question of time.

Dear Raihana,
I really understand how you feel. I just had boy #2 in March and feel terribly guilty that I don't love him as intensely as the 1st. Perhaps some of what you're feeling has to do with the birth experience, but I think that 2nd babies are just different. My 1st son, I spent much of the pregnancy anticipating him, reading everything I could, etc. His birth was difficult and ended in forcepts after 4 hours of pushing. I had a lot of anger and guilt over the birth experience, especially since I didn't get to hold him right away, but yet I love him so intensely and fiercely that I surprise myself. My 2nd son, the whole pregnancy was different. I was busy working, we were planning to relocate, I was chasing the first. His birth was a beautiful water birth and I got to hold him immediately, but the intensity is just not there. I do love him, but it scares me sometimes that it's not as intense. Even the milk let-downs are not as intense. He's easier to put down, and I do put him down more because this time I had to return to work immediately. I do computer work from home, and I worry that I'm not responding to him as quickly when I'm working, or wishing he'd sleep a bit long so I can work. I'm hanging in there hoping this will change and I will be able to feel the same deep love for him.

Love can look many different ways, just like you can feel happiness without smiling. Don't expect it to be the same connection with your son that it was with your daughter, just let it be what it is. Drop the guilt--that's what will interefere with bonding. If you can, carry him in a sling, smell him, and let it be. I don't doubt the love is there and will grow.

I also had an emergency c-section, and felt extremely ambivalent toward her for quite some time. I think what helped me through was not judging myself and giving myself space to be honest about my emotions. I talked to people I trusted & wrote a lot about it. The ambivalence went away and was replaced with a deeply symbiotic love for her. I'm so glad I didn't punish myself during that time...

Edited to add: Oh, yes--I see others have mentioned this-bedsharing and baby-wearing did the trick.

I do try to carry him in the sling, it's harder to do in the summer because he gets so hot. ( Dd was born in October) & we do the bed sharing with Dd & youngest Ds both. I guess it just bothers me because I loved Dd SO MUCH!!! & With Ds it is almost like I'm babysitting, I love him but it's like I love any child. It doesn't do him justice, he deserves so much more. I also feel that I am not doing Dd justice either because I'm not there for her as much now. Could I be resentful of him on some level? Someone suggested smelling him... I did that all the time with Dd, I was drawn to do it on some instinctual level. With him I'm not, I do it & *that scent* isn't there. I'm afraid that I will not get better. I do feel "down" over everything. I sleep whenever I get the chance, but is that ppd or is it just lack of sleep? Could it be ppd or baby blues? I want to love him so much but I can't connect. I try to let go of the guilt but every time I see him, hold him & etc.. & that feeling isn't there it all comes rushing back. I know that children are all different my oldest two are night & day but I don't think that's the problem. And yes the milk let down is even different too. At this point I feel like I'm just going through the motions & it's even spilling over to my other children too.

First off, congratulations on having a healthy boy. I have only one daughter, but my experience with her seems to be similar to yours with your firstborn. I spoke with my own mom about this (she has three daughters), and she said that after her first child, she wondered whether she could love the second as much and as intensely as the first (she didn't have to wait long; my sister and I are 18 months apart.)

Mom says she loved my sister as much, but there was a difference. With her firstborn, she was surprised at how much she loved the baby, and that made the love more intense. With her second, the love didn't take her by surprise. I can understand a little bit. I mean, I knew I would love my daughter, but I had no idea it could be like this. I think that the second time around, I'll love the child just as much, but I don't think the intensity will be there. And perhaps that's for the best. If I fell in love with a second child in the same way I fell in love with the first, I would probably ignore the first child around the new baby. That doesn't mean I won't love the second as much; it just means that there has to be room for the first, as well. I hope this makes sense to you. I don't think you're a bad mother. I think different babies need different kinds of love. Good luck.

Hi Raihana,
your post brought tears to my eyes, I think I know how you feel, and it is just sooo sad. I had a girl by C-section last October (planned hb) and in the month that followed I sometimes tought she doesn't like me and I don't specifically care for her either... I do think it was mostly ppd and the feelings of sadness that follow and linger for some time. I went through the motions, basically overextending myself in order to mute the guilt. It had all been such a dream with my firstborn and I had had such high expectations. But maybe that was the mistake!?
Anyway, it is all a bad memory now, since love slowly krept up on us both. For a few month now I do enjoy her smell, her sweet smile, and everything about her. I didn't get any help since I still can't even get close to a doctor's office, but I gave her baby massage every day, and made sure there was a special time for the two of us every day.
I hope you will get better, I wish you the very best, but know that some have felt similarly and things can change. The feelings I have for my daughter now are even more precious after the hard months behind us. Still, I mourn for every single day I lost.
Take good care of yourself!!
Beate

Hi Raihana,
I don't have much of an answer for you, but sometimes it helps to know we are not alone. My dd was born in Nov. and I am still waiting for the flood of love I hear about from other mothers... I know I do love her, somewhere deep inside of me, but what I feel is a very strong sense of obligation, not love. She is my first so I don't even know what it feels like and my birthing experience was wonderful, oh and she is high need so we seeem to bond, I just don't feel that love. ?
Anyway, everyone seems to think it will hit us eventually so I wish you the best and stay posting, like-minded parents help.
Marlene

Dear Raihana, I didn't have a c-section with my second child, yet I shared some of the same emotions you are having with your little one. My first ds needed to be held (and nursed) ALL the time. It was a wonderful time, I felt incredibly close to him and completely in love with him. My dd was an *easy baby*, she slept 4hrs at a stretch right away without being held---(what?! babies really do that!!? I was so shocked). And because I wanted to give ds attention, I would put her down. I felt like there was this distance between us and it really frightened me. I began trying to spend time just with her (it helped I think) but there was just no getting around the fact that I didn't love her the same way I loved my son. I read what i'm amy wrote: "Give him a chance to reveal himself to you....he will". I started to cry, because that's exactly what happened for my sweet dd and I. I don't know when or precisely how it happened but I am crazy in love with this amazing little girl. And that time that I felt unconnected to her seems like a lifetime ago. If you suspect you may be experiencing ppd or baby blues you may need to investigate what kind of help is available. And if it's not.....my best (humble) advice is to give it time and be kind to yourself. Sending loving thoughts your way! Maisy

While pregnant with DD 8 years ago, I spent the entire nine months worried about her health, yet not feeling any real attachment to the child within me. That being my first pregnancy tho, I didn't have a basis for comparison so I assumed it was normal, that I would fall in love after she was born. Then I ended up needing an emergency c-sect which I was put under for and then held in the ICU for the next 15 hours. By the time I was returned to my room and handed my daughter, not only was I in real pain from the incision...but this perfect, beautiful girl felt like a complete stranger to me. I felt protective of her, but no real affection, no breath taking surge of love like I had expected. She had a terrible time nursing (due I believe to the drugs administered during my 18 hour labour and subsequent c-sect) and I had to fight the nurses not to give her formula. She turned out to be an extremely sensitive, high-need baby...and I responded dutifully to her needs, swaddling her and carrying her in her sling almost constantly, nursing on demand...and yet, after a month I was still refering to her as 'the baby' and not by her name, so foriegn she still felt to me. Eventually real love developed, but it took much, much longer than I thought it would have. All my visions and expectations of labour, delivery and what a baby would be like had to be re-structured to incorporate what my actual experience WAS. She is nearly 8 now, and I still struggle with being the parent she needs me to be as our personalities are complete opposites. I keep trying, tho, and she can see and feel that I really want to be the mama she needs. I feel probably more guilty now that I have DS, as the entire pregnancy, birth and just our relationship in general seem to flow with the greatest of ease! I felt very very attached to him early in my pregnancy, had a successful VBAC, he came out big and calm and quietly looking around the darkened room, our personalities are very similar, in general he just makes so much SENSE to me. When I took him in my arms I was filled with so much emotion I thought my heart would burst. Sorry this got so long, I thought perhaps sharing my experience would help you feel less alone. It
sounds like you have alot on your plate right now and would benefit greatly from some help around the house. Is there anyone who could come stay with you for a few days to help with the other kids, so you can devote some uninterrupted time with the new baby? Kind of a 'babymoon' period? Also hold him naked against your bare chest, this totally helped with my daughter and I forming a bond...just feel how tiny he is, how perfect and soft, etc...and think warm, loving thoughts while doing so, they pick up on that, too! Everything will be fine...{{hugs}}

Aroha Raihana, I hope by now your relationship with your baby is as sweet as it can be, I totally agree with all the other contributions made thus far, life is always holistic and there never is just one answer. Perhaps if you still feel something is missing you should see a Naturopath,e.g., it is becoming very common that women suffer a deficiency of essential fatty acids, found in Flaxseed or evening primrose oils etc and this often causes ppd. Also can be involved with ADD etc. Within 3 weeks of supplementation, this deficiency can be resolved quite simply, or there may be a mineral deficiency, all easily helped, there is no need to miss out on this most special part of life. Much aroha, Trudy.

When I was pg w/ Gus and Emmet we were told that most likely they would die in utero. I was put on complete bedrest for two months before they were born and I had no other children so all I did all day was lay on the couch and feel them moving inside me. I wanted to remember what it felt like incase they did die. Then they were born at 29 weeks, completely sick. Emmet fought death for 2 weeks. I was so afraid that my time with them was limited that I spent 12 hours a day sitting at their bedside, just looking at them trying to burn their pictures into my head.

Then 3 months later they came home. They were still really sick and on monitors and O2. I really threw myself into becomeing the very best mom in the history of the world! I spent the next 2.5 years trying to teach them and get them caught up to their peers.

Then I had Abe.

When I was pg with him I barely noticed it. I didn't have even 5 minutes a day to acknowledge the lil babe growing in my belly. My toddlin' twins took up every minute of the day and half the night. The whole pg was like that. I also recieved a crushing blow 2-3 months into the pg. I was NOT a canidate for VBAC, and would HAVE to have a c-birth. This caused depression very early on in the pg. It never left.

The day he was born by planned c-birth, I just wasn't ready. I didn't want anyone to touch me. I was scared and just didn't feel happy. I already felt tired and overwhelmed before they ever lifted him out. When he was born and dh said "It's a BOY!" I was dumbstruck. For 9 months I had thought FOR SURE it was a girl, and frankly, for a short time, I was disappointed. I felt like "who is this kid?" If I hadn't seen the birthmark on his cheek minutes after birth I would have thought we took home the wrong baby! Dh confided the VERY SAME THING a few months ago!!!!

Nursing was a flop. He just couldn't do it. No one, not the pedis, nor the LCs, or the nurses ever figured it out. Then, to top it off, he always cried when *I* held him. He was quiet for Grandma, Papa, the neighbor and ANYONE else, but screamed when I was near. So I wasn't "allowed" to birth him, couldn't nurse him, and then he hated for me to touch him. Man, PPD began to rear it's ugly head and stayed for about a year.

I totally do not remember ONE thing between 2 weeks pp and 10 months. I remember dressing him in a blue and white striped onsie at about 2 weeks and the next thing I remember is putting him in our new sling at 10 months. I'm TOTALLY serious. When I see baby pics of him, he looks like a distant relative. It's SOOO weird.

Mama, you are not alone. I still don't have that fierce love for him like I do the twins-it's the lazy river kind, fer sure.

I am PLEADING with you to call someone re: possible ppd. It's the pits and it can steal your life from you.

YOU ARE NOT A BAD MOM! You are an AWESOME mama 'cause you recognize it, and are trying to figure it out, understand and accept it! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE email me if you need to. I'll send you my phone # and you can call me day or night.

I'M SERIOUS!!! PPD STOLE MY HAPPINESS and I don't want any mama and baby to ever have to go through it again!