Maybe Louise woke up as she was shot the first time?The photograph is disgusting, but judging by her expressionI would say she woke up aware of what had happened and the look of shock on her face could be her gasping for air.

I also wonder why she is clutching her necklace... Did she hold it each night in her hand as she slept,or was she clutching it because she knew what hadjust happened to her?

It is better to return a borrowed pot with a little something you last cooked in it.

Lamelune wrote:I am sure at 100% that she was not murdered in the position where her body was found by the police. Further, her arms were not outstretched forward, like the other victims.

She saw her killer threatening her with his rifle before shooting.

Unless you subscribe to the idea that the whole family were sleeping while the murders were going on, then it is logical to assume that Louise saw her murderer. But when you say “killer” do you mean Ronnie or do you think that it was someone else?

The bullets passed through her body into the bed. This alone proves she was killed in bed she wasn't killed elsewhere and then transported to her bed. There was no blood on the dresser. Just because you think it looks like blood doesn't make it so. There is zero evidence there was more than 1 killer. 1 weapon was used on them all, that weapon had only Ron's prints on it and there were no prints found of anyone else at the scene. The fairytale about there being a number of people doing drugs and drinking and smoking is not supported by what was found at the scene.

quotestheraven wrote:That "stain" looks more like a blemish in the print than blood splatter.

It is definitely not blood spatter.

It is very easy to claim something looks liek blood in a photo that is not proof in the least it actually is. There were stains he claimed was blood too even though tests proved it wasn't. The police actually tested various stains and used Luminol all over. hey are the ones in a position to render a definitive conclusion. Ryan wouldn't know blood spatter from a ketchup stain. His ignorance is only exceeded by his desire to ignore the truth even when peopel inform him of the facts like when I established the gun he found can't have fired a 38 special round. He didn't want to hear that and chose to ignore it. He is not only downright dumb, he is intentionally dishonest and that is how he hooked up with Geraldine- birds of a feather....

The fairytale about there being a number of people doing drugs and drinking and smoking is not supported by what was found at the scene.

One of the things that people seem to either not be aware of, or they ignore it - is that the murders happened on a week night. People had to get up and go to work and/or school the next morning. It just wasn't a night that people would be up partying/doing drugs. Dawn had school the next morning. Her alarm was set for and went off at 7:30 am. No way was she up drinking/doing drugs at 2:00 am.

Another thing that people assume for some reason is that Ronnie just spontaneously decided to kill his family while he was watching Castle Keep. Like one minute he was sitting there not a homicidal maniac. Then, the next minute he goes to get his gun and kills his family. Balogna! I think he planned this as carefully as someone with a limited intellect can.

1) He picked a weeknight. A night that everyone would be home. Nobody was going to spending the night at a friend's house. Everyone would be going to bed at a civilized hour because they had to get up and out the next morning.

2) It was also a night that no friends would be staying over. One of the few pieces of useful information gained from Shattered Hopes is that the Defeo boys almost always had over night company on the weekends. Ronnie had just enough of a conscience to not want to kill non-family members.

3) His father wasn't expected at work the next day (another bit of useful information gained from Shattered Hopes). His father was taking Marc to the doctor the next morning, so he wasn't expected at work. If this hadn't been the case, Mr. Brigante would have been calling or maybe even gone over to the house to find out where Big Ronnie was. The bodies would have been found much sooner.

Back then a school didn't automatically call when a child missed just one day of school, so nobody was really missing the Defeo's/wonder what was up until around 3:00 that afternoon - when friends would have started calling to find out why Allison and John weren't in school.

The fairytale about there being a number of people doing drugs and drinking and smoking is not supported by what was found at the scene.

One of the things that people seem to either not be aware of, or they ignore it - is that the murders happened on a week night. People had to get up and go to work and/or school the next morning. It just wasn't a night that people would be up partying/doing drugs. Dawn had school the next morning. Her alarm was set for and went off at 7:30 am. No way was she up drinking/doing drugs at 2:00 am.

Another thing that people assume for some reason is that Ronnie just spontaneously decided to kill his family while he was watching Castle Keep. Like one minute he was sitting there not a homicidal maniac. Then, the next minute he goes to get his gun and kills his family. Balogna! I think he planned this as carefully as someone with a limited intellect can.

1) He picked a weeknight. A night that everyone would be home. Nobody was going to spending the night at a friend's house. Everyone would be going to bed at a civilized hour because they had to get up and out the next morning.

2) It was also a night that no friends would be staying over. One of the few pieces of useful information gained from Shattered Hopes is that the Defeo boys almost always had over night company on the weekends. Ronnie had just enough of a conscience to not want to kill non-family members.

3) His father wasn't expected at work the next day (another bit of useful information gained from Shattered Hopes). His father was taking Marc to the doctor the next morning, so he wasn't expected at work. If this hadn't been the case, Mr. Brigante would have been calling or maybe even gone over to the house to find out where Big Ronnie was. The bodies would have been found much sooner.

Back then a school didn't automatically call when a child missed just one day of school, so nobody was really missing the Defeo's/wonder what was up until around 3:00 that afternoon - when friends would have started calling to find out why Allison and John weren't in school.

Ronnie showed a violent streak well before the murders. He pulled guns on friends and in bars. He allegedly had the incident where he was going to shoot his father and the gun didn't go off. His parents allowed him to have guns even though he was on probation at the time and probably wasn't allowed a gun as a condition of his probation.

The fairytale about there being a number of people doing drugs and drinking and smoking is not supported by what was found at the scene.

One of the things that people seem to either not be aware of, or they ignore it - is that the murders happened on a week night. People had to get up and go to work and/or school the next morning. It just wasn't a night that people would be up partying/doing drugs. Dawn had school the next morning. Her alarm was set for and went off at 7:30 am. No way was she up drinking/doing drugs at 2:00 am.

Another thing that people assume for some reason is that Ronnie just spontaneously decided to kill his family while he was watching Castle Keep. Like one minute he was sitting there not a homicidal maniac. Then, the next minute he goes to get his gun and kills his family. Balogna! I think he planned this as carefully as someone with a limited intellect can.

1) He picked a weeknight. A night that everyone would be home. Nobody was going to spending the night at a friend's house. Everyone would be going to bed at a civilized hour because they had to get up and out the next morning.

2) It was also a night that no friends would be staying over. One of the few pieces of useful information gained from Shattered Hopes is that the Defeo boys almost always had over night company on the weekends. Ronnie had just enough of a conscience to not want to kill non-family members.

3) His father wasn't expected at work the next day (another bit of useful information gained from Shattered Hopes). His father was taking Marc to the doctor the next morning, so he wasn't expected at work. If this hadn't been the case, Mr. Brigante would have been calling or maybe even gone over to the house to find out where Big Ronnie was. The bodies would have been found much sooner.

Back then a school didn't automatically call when a child missed just one day of school, so nobody was really missing the Defeo's/wonder what was up until around 3:00 that afternoon - when friends would have started calling to find out why Allison and John weren't in school.

We don't know if it was just a crime of opportunity or long planned out. He often went to work with his father. His father staying home presented a good reason why his father would not be with him. He messed up thpough by not taking his father's car to work like he was supposed to. He was supposed to take his father's car so it could have some work done on it. Maybe he didn't take his father's car because he forgot in all the excitment of murdering his family. Maybe he figured why bother since his father was dead. It is also possible he didn't because then he would not be able to leave work early. If he had half a brain though he would have carried on as usual and worked all day and tried to find a way for someone else to discover the bodies and act shocked. Leaving early to tell his friends he was locked out etc certainly ended up not helping at all. He quickly became the prime suspect.

I personally think he was being kicked out of the house and that is why he did it. His friends sure made it seem that his father was done with him since he would not even talk with him and didn't want him visiting Marc and they implied he was being thrown out. I think he was told to find somewhere else to live but allowed to stay a short time as he tried to figure out where and that is what made him snap. But you never know he could have simply wanted the fmaily house and money for himself and done it for that reason.

When I was in college having to go to school or work didn't stop partying so that alone doesn't prove they would not have been hanging out late. But there would be evidence of that and there was none. The parts that make the least sense is Augie supposedly being there. Why would he go hang out with Dawn? Worse yet why would he play the piano to try to conceal that Big Ronnie was talking about killing the kids? He allegedly was brought on board to kill the parents. So if he was in on the plan to kill th eparents why would he want to hide the parent's saying they wanted to kill Rpon and Dawn? He would call the to hear it. It gets even worse from there with the pathetic plan to have him drive the kids and Dawn all the way to Brooklyn. Instead of calling police or driving them to a neighbor, the police station or their grandparents who were 10 minutes away he takes them to Brooklyn? Yeah ok that makes sense. Only an idiot would believe such a ridiculous tale. Especially since the kids would tell the cops Ron was there. They would have wanted to knoe why he didn't call police and what he was doing as they were going to Brooklyn.

There is just no way to know if he planned it for a while or just took decided on the spur to take advantage of the opportunity.

Rokiisun wrote:Why would Big Ronnie and Louise allow Ronnie access to gunswhilst on probation in the first place and to have them in hisbedroom when there were young kids in the same building?

Were they scared of what he may do to them if they attemptedto take his guns away? (If Ronnie's bedroom had no lock theycould have easily done this).

Or did they see butchie in a different light as opposed to thedangerous thug he really was?

Big Ronnie was not afraid of Little Ronnie. They had many physical battles. Appears guns were quite prevelent in the family. After all, Big Ronnie's Uncle was a mobster and there was lots of suspision the rest of the family was. Big Ronnie himself had thuggish behavior in him. Like father, like son.

Whether or not Ronnie was allowed to have guns as a condition of probation would depend on if he was on misdemeanor or felony probation. Only felons lose the right to have guns, and I'm not even sure when that law came about. Laws about felons/guns have gotten a lot tougher since the mid-1970's. I can remember when the passed the law that no felon (as opposed to only violent felons) could have guns.

I think he did it in an attempt to get away with that money he stole from the dealership. Remember - he was supposed to have gone to look at mug shots the previous Friday and blew it off. Ronnie was probably facing having charges brought against him for that. He seems like he is stupid enough to think that if he blew away the whole family it would 1) get back at his father for not bailing him out AGAIN, 2) the cops would somehow believe the carjacking story, or 3) they'd feel so sorry for this poor pitiful schmuck whose entire family was just murdered that they wouldn't have the heart to bring charges against him for the grand larceny.