I am amused at the invective at men with secular credential, a known syndrome of ideologues with headquarters at Nagpur. Can we take it that the vernacular press is the ideal one for rational readers? It has been the target of the saffron brigade across the country over decades for reason not difficult or far to seek. I do not say the English language press is all white and pious like lily. The English language papers too have their patrons and publishers with definite philosophy to follow and objectives to accomplish. They too can be as rabbid as that of the vernacular ones.
With a person of such pre-fixed attitudinal notions, it is difficult to carry on a debate with frankness and candour.
A nation is great by its liberal attitude towards and ungrudging accommodation of its weak, halpless and needy; not by its persecution, prejudice and hatred against them.
The great claims to lofty heights achieved in ancient India is a pet theme song of the RSS and its camp followers. If we, in the process, ignore the volumes of perverse literature of the same era, we cannot claim to be enlightened, can we?
Thanks, I will not react to invectives from you any longer.
A K Biswas

"Dr.A.K. Biswas"I see that you are determined to stick with your favourite theme. We are getting more and more "anecdotes". Many editors of Indian "English language" press are rather like you. Under a misguided and misunderstood notion of secularism, they would highlight, even falsely, "anecdotes" such as the one about the PSO of this army officer. The habits of mind of the Indian journalists are so pathetic.1) My cousin's "social status" is not one that would impress status-conscious Indians. In any case he was one of a party of 10 people who worshipped at the Puri Mandhir.2) He is disillusioned with what he saw of Christianity from the inside. Too long to go into details.3) I will give you a few anecdotes of my own: Eraiyur, near Villupuram in TamilNadu, Dalit Christians and "Naicker" (OBC) Christians are in a violent struggle over allegations of caste discrimination by the latter - separate burial ground for the Dalits and the Naickers.4) The Vidudhalai Siruththaigal, a Dalit party is leading agitations in several parts of Tam.Nadu over how Dalit Christians are being discriminated against in the selection of clergy, separate pews in Churches and so on.5) Caste system amongst Kerala Christians is very complicated. Even those that were allegedly converted by St.Thomas around 60 A.D. are still maintaining their caste identity. I am sure they would NOT have heard of Manu Smriti, because Manu Smriti became widely known only around 300 A.D., reaching SouthIndia only around 500 A.D. - all estimates.6) Little noticed is the fact that both Kerala and T.Nadu have prominent Hindu temples in which the priests are Dalit / OBC Hindus. I have been to several of those - not a single brahmin priest in sight. Many famous Hindu Swamijis are now of Dalit or BC or OBC origin - example: "Bangaru Adigalar" of the Parasakthi temple near Madras. There are more Dalit Hindu priests than there are Dalit Christian priests in these southern states. Prove me wrong.7) There is a conspiracy by sections of the Indian media and some political parties to create controversies around Hindu temples. A Christian lady actress, who alleged that she went to the famous Mandhir of Ayyappa at Sabari Hills in Kerala and "touched" the Vigraha ( "idol" ) while she was mensurating, turned out to be part of a Christian group in Bangalore. The Indian Media likes stories like this. Many gobbled it all up without any verifications. Truth is a casualty in many reports that belittle Hinduism and Hindu issues.Likewise, in Tamil Nadu's famous Nataraja temple, a group of Hindus, Christians and Muslims invaded the temple on some flimsy grounds to do with the use of Tamil prayers as opposed to Sanskrit prayers. 8) Christians are active around famous Hindu pilgrimage centres. In Andhra, they wanted to build a huge church close to the famous Tirupathi Mandhir of Venkateswara. They hoped that the Christian C.M., Samuel Rajasekara Reddy would help them. But the Andhra Hindu leaders warned him of the political consequences - being a politician first, then a Christian, he listened.They have not given up on the Sabari Hills Ayyappa temple, because it is VERY POPULAR, especially with the "lower castes" of Hindus.9) You do not have to be an addict to "conspiracy theories" to know what the Christian missionaries are up to in India.More and more Dalits are discovering the true state of affairs - like my cousin's and his wife's family.

Your post did not leave any indication/suggestion as to the social status of your cousin that he is a dalit converted back to Hinduism. Please tell us his experience, before, during and after conversion/reconversion.
I do not know if the Jagannath templehas guards posted at the gates in Puri. But recently an army brigadier accompanied by an escort {PSO, i.e, personal security officer} figured prominently in the media because the PSO was a Muslim. Last year, Her Highness the Princess of Thailand was denied entry in the temple. Who spotted them? In case of the foreign dignitary, a formal communication might have reached the temple authorities. Some foreigners, perhaps Europeans too were denied entry as being Christians making it to the media. But Governor General Mountbatten too though a Christian was given rousing welcome. They know which side of the bread is with butter, be it Mountbatten or Mayawati.
Some have raised the phenomenon of Mayawati. I would ask them to give me their reaction what if the journey were in reverse direction? In other words, if Mayawati were to seek entry into an outfit of Brahmins, Rajputs, Kayasthas etc., what would be her fate? An Upanishad, styled "Allaho Upanishad" was written by the Brahmins to please and appease the Mughal Emperor Akbar.
The Union Cabinet has Meira Kumar, daughter of Babu Jagjivan Ram. A former IFS offcier, she, though holds a portfolio, [Ministry of Empowerment & Social Justice] has no voice to defend the interest of the target groups of her charge. The case of Dr. Buta Singh is well known as being a telling instance. He was used and thrown away as a liability from Bihar where he went as the Governor. A person with vast experience in governance Dr. Singh has been consigned to National Commission for Scheduled Castes, lest he opens up his mouth and diclose what all went in Bihar which was put under Presidential rule in 2005.
The instance of levying fine of 25,000 rupees was related to me by a person, who can be trusted. Rarely a legend is woven around dalits.
You may make light of the issue by saying that next time caste of the friends will be diclosed to the pandas, but fact remains that the untouchables are not allowed entry in Hindu shrines.
A. K. Biswas
USA

"Dr.A.K. Biswas"I meant to include, but missed the following points:1) You remark on my cousin and his visit to Puri Mandhir with two Dalit families: "He might be right (in describing your point as "rubbish") as he ACCOMPANIED two Dalit families to worship at the shrine."It is curious that you ASSUME he may not be Dalit himself !!!Here are the facts: He converted to Christianity in the 1970s, married a Dalit Christian girl from ORISSA. They both re-converted in the 1990s to Hinduism. My cousin views himself as a Dalit. The two families he was with were- are - his wife's Hindu relations.I will question my cousin on whether they all went up to the Pandas and declared to them: "We are all Dalits, now in your temple, polluting everything!!"As of now, I can tell you, all of them are "dark-skinned" strong, healthy and look like average Indians. I can also tell you, there is none at the entrance to the Puri Mandhir trying to stop Dalits or "non-Hindus" from entering the temple.2) How can a senior bank officer be "compelled" by a handful of priests to pay a "fine of Rs.25,000/-" for entering the Mandhir.? Please tell us something that most Indians will find credible.3) It is Mayawati who said that Rahul Gandhi, the favourite of "pseudo-secularists" and their fellow travellers in the Indian Media, had performed a "Suddhi Karana" after eating at a Dalit's house. Whereas, the vast majority of Indians, as I said in my earlier post, eat food cooked by Dalits everyday, everywhere in Indian "hotels" road-side Dabbhas. Please get to know India better, as it is NOW.4) On Afro-Americans getting their civil rights in the 1964, my next sentence should read: "By then Dalits in India had voted in THREE general elections".

"Dr. A.K. Biswas"I do read, understand and respect your views,because you are interested in the betterment of my country. I have said, your views and comments are relevant to 1947, or THE PAST. You are "cherry-picking" from the past to build your present view of Indian society.See "Manag56" - this person is also learned like you, but he/she is dealing with the PRESENT. With due respect to you, you are living in the past. "Manag56" is living in the present. You do NOT wish to register the VAST CHANGES taking place in Indian society. Have you heard of MAYAWATI? Is she to be dismissed as a "Chamar"? Did you know how many BRAHMINS VOTED for her, still support her? Have you heard of the support she is getting throughout INDIA - thousands of brahmins amongst them? Please do not get fixated on some priests in Benares. Even in the PAST the picture was NOT "black and white" as you portray it.Priests have NOT influenced Hindu society as much as you make out - in the Past or certainly do NOT influence it in the present. All of our SMRITIS were ADVISORY only as far as RAJA NEETHI was concerned. Historical records show that the Maha Rajah's of INDIA applied our Smritis AT THEIR DISCRETION. Laws in S.Africa and in the USA that discriminated against "people of colour" were LAWS enforced by the police. Smritis, even that of MANU were NOT like that.I do NOT mean any innuendo, when I ask you to consider the RELATIVE BLAME one can put on different societies at different times in the PAST - just to show you that if you wish to stay with 1803, Hindu society was less evil than European and American societies as of 1803. After all, Afro-Americans got their civil rights ONLY IN 1964. But Dalits had voted in at least THREE general elections in India. In a world of "mis-behaving" groups, with no "ideal" groups for us to admire, we should moderate our criticism according to the "degree of evil" we see in each group.Therefore, I do not adopt a "black and white" approach.I do not understand how mentioning the tragedies of 1,500 years of "persecution of the Jews" and the wanton, fanatical "destruction of the Maya, Aztec and Inca peoples" - is really to justify the killings anywhere in India. My intention was to show the nature and scope of "mis-behaviour" by societies. Evil is evil under all circumstances. Further, as "manag56" is asking: "Who are these caste Hindus?" Who are the oppressors? Why should the priests of the Puri temple wait for someone to declare he/she is a Dalit - if they are determined to "shoo" them away? It is incredible. The local RSS and Bajrangis will beat the Pandas up and throw them out of the temple. Both organisations are strongly "casteless" organisations. But, not many know this.Please understand that if Dalits are prevented from entering any famous temple, it would make national news. Vast majority of Hindus would join the Dalits in taking the offenders to task. That is the REALITY. Nothing to do with your belief or mine.How many tea-stalls have "two-tumbler" system in Tamil Nadu? In remote corners of any country, strange habits may persist. I hope you are not implying that "followers of Manu Smriti" own these tea stalls. I can tell you that in TamilNadu, most kitchen workers in "hotels", even five star ones, are Dalits. This is true of very small towns also. Hindu society changes faster than some others and is NOT as evil as your set ideas portray it. Any way, both of us have had our say, we will leave it at that.

"Mr. Impassioned"
The questions re: persecution of Jews, destruction of Maya, etc. you have raised are but understandable and expected from those who want to justify the killings of Christians in Orissa, Gujarat, Karnataka, Chattisgarh. Else why should such fanatical contention is being raised?
Hindus have preached thro' their saints, sages and godmen to tell the world how peaceloving and tolerant they have been or are over centuries. This is a lie. They are very tolerant, admirably lovable, sweet, well-behaved and restrained when they deal with someone more powerful. They are worst tyrant if they meet a weak person. And ask the truth of this statement to any dalit of India. They have created untouchability by scriptures, which they preached as flowing from the sacred mouth of gods!!! This social evil coupled with discrimination and graded inequality is far, far worse apartheid in Africa and other parts of the world. No sufferes of discrimination and untouchability practiced by Hindus can have a word of appreciation for them.
A. K. Biswas,
USA

"Mr. Indica"
I am obliged that you showed my views to your cousin, who, did you say?, rubbished it. He might be right as he accompanied two dalit families to offer worship in the Puri shrine. I know a contrary case of 2005 when a dalit bank officer, when ascertained his social identity by the pandas, was compelled to pay a hefty fine, believ it or not, of Rs, 25,000 for visiting the same shrine. May I ask Mr. Indica to clarify if the dalit family that accompanied his cousin had disclosed their caste identity to the temple mandarins before entry? We will accept that caste discrimination, inequality and hatred do not exist in India if this is stated/admirtted freely by dalits themselves, and none else. Mr. India may taunt me by saying that I have cited caste-centric instances as well as mindset of 1947 or before from the US. In Rajasthan, the Chief Minister Shib Chandra Mathur led a group of dalits to famous Nathdwar temple to offer puja and prayers. When the officially sponsored programme with the CM in attendance was over and the party left, the temple complex was washed to remove the sins and pollution caused by entry of the untouchables there. Mr. Mathur was Rajasthan's CM about half a century after 1947.
That brings to my mind the case of Babu Jagjivan Ram, the most outstanding defence minister India could boast of. It was during his tenure Pakistan was decisively defeated in war, leading to the birth of Bangladesh. He was invited to inaugurated the statue of Dr. Sampurnanad in the Benares Hindu University campus. This done, the students, patrons of learning and their cohorts washed the statue of Dr. Sampurnand with Ganga water for removing the touch of a Chamar!!! He did not, in the Hindu eyes, rise above his caste. Babuji has a book, Caste Challenges to India [if my memory serves me well], which Mr. Indica might read with profit. In it he has noted down his bitter experiences of the famed temple of Puri. There it is said that piosonous gas that emits from the bodies of untouchables pollutes the gods and goddesses.
The two tambler system in roadside teastalls in Tamil Nadu is a living reality even now. The cheap one of plastic for dalit customer is required to washed after use by him. The other for respectable non-dalit customer is of stainless steel, which they are not required to wash after sipping tea.
When Dr. K. R. Narayanan was to unfurl the National Tricolor after becoming the President on Republic Day, the Nairs of his home state observed contemptuously that he might climb up the flagstaff instead of hoisting the flag on the uaspicious occasion!!! This was a crude reference to the traditional occupation of the caste Dr. Narayanan belonged. Traditionally the castemen of the former President climb coconut tree to pluck its fruits.
Whether Mr Indiac believes it or not, it is a harsh fact and ground reality in India that no dalit will be welcome in any Hindu temples if his caste is known to the priests/managers concerned. The disappearance of discrimination, prejudice and hstred of Hindus have to be attested by the victims of these eevils and none else. The Hindus have great stake in propagating without an iota of truth across the globe that the untouchability and discrimination on acccount of birth has ceased to exist in India. becausae they or their forefathers were creators, sponsors and abetters of discrimination which has been the hallmark of their scriptures. In Durban International Conference 2001 they tried and were ridiculed badly.
The priestly castes in Benares openly declare that the scriptures are their manuals to guide them in all walks of life and living. They just do not bother for the Constitution of India made by men nor for its objectives. What do these people preach to their followers and supplicants?
Mr. India may note that we need to engage ourselves in healthy debate over throny social issues with frankness, candour and freely without hurting, taunting and insinuating any for that. Can we do it?
A. K. Biswas,
USA

Who are these so -called caste Hindus? The media in all cases of atrocities against the dalits freely uses the expression “caste Hindus”. Are they the Brahmins? No. Though the Brahmins were traditionally in charge of disseminating spiritual knowledge to the other three castes, they do not practice caste discrimination
. Example: the practical example as shown by the Great Ramanujacharya who chose a person of another caste as his guru. People like the enlightened V V S Iyer, poet Bharathiar and freedom fighters like Rajaji who showed example for others by choosing a person of another caste for his daughter. There were and are many Brahmins who are against discriminating the dalits as lower caste. Does it refer to the Vaisyas or the “Sreshtis”(the great ones) as they were known coz they were the owners and controllers of the finance in the social order of the four-fold caste system? Does the expression “Caste Hindus” refers to the Kshatriyas? There are very few Kshatriyas-- the rulers of the Kingdoms left to be identified separately.
Unfortunately the expression refers to the fourth caste people who succeeded in discriminating those who could not become ship builders or architects or any technicians of high level. These gullible people were marginalized to do some menial and cleaning jobs like washing the clothes of the fourth class people. Those who were not smart enough to do specialized jobs like metallurgy, goldsmith, ship- building and many other skilled technical jobs, in the course of time,classified by the fourth class of technicians. The fifth caste was created and discriminated by the former as socially untouchables.
In the Hindu scriptures there is no mention of a fifth caste. Take the Gita. There is no mention of the fifth caste. These were the dalits whom Mahatma Gandhi wanted to uplift by giving them the name of Harijans “Children of God”. In spite of strict law against any discrimination of the dalits many crimes have been done often by the so- called caste Hindus. Now things have gone awry long way. In this animosity ridden social set up what is the remedy? What is expected of the “caste Hindus”?
Hindus should take up the right steps against the evil of caste discrimination especially crimes against the dalits by the so - called caste Hindus. duty of all Hindus especially those in remote villages to do welfare schemes for the dalits in an organized way. It is very important that no dalit is treated in any cruel way as it has been witnessed by the atrocities in many villages .I saw the news of a dalit having been dragged along with a two -wheeler by an officer. On June 16 this year in Maharashtra State, a 40 years old jeep driver was burnt alive in his vehicle for re on refusing to ferry some influential members of a higher caste. Crimes against the dalits are only reported in paper but the offenders are not punished. Only the recently in Khairlanji punishment has been meted out the court of law to the offenders.. This is the real safety for the dalits. In another village in Latur district a teen age boy is taunted for wearing good clothes and using mobile phone.
It is also argued that some dalits become upstarts and ill treat hem an behave in arrogant way. The only way to confront this is to tolerate. Yes. Tolerate them for their indignation as they were suppressed for centuries and now have social status. They will have the desire to give expression to their past sufferings undergone by them and by their parents. Let them have some time to become great scientists and Nobel Prize winners. They will settle down then.
The concept of untouchability imposed upon certain section of society is a black mark on the Hindu religion. It is a shame on Hinduism. If they take up the cause of these people and protect them from the so-called high caste Hindus, the problem of conversion can be dealt with effectively without any lethargy or conflict.So all the so -called caste Hindus must unite in not discriminating against dalits. The educated Hindus should take up the social service of the poor Hindus and organize them for group prayers. Celebration of festivals like the Ganesh Chathurthi and many other festivals can be celebrated at a social level as taught by great people like Gokale in the Maharashtra during the years of freedom struggle. Some clergy personnel said recently in one of channels TV said that people become Christians not for money and food but for religious freedom. Dalits should not be discriminated or insulted socially in any place public or private. Laws relating to offences on discrimination mentioning the caste of any people should be punished with severe deterrent punishment.
The deterrent punishment meted out to the criminals for horrible crimes against the dalits in Klailanji is the best way of dealing with caste discrimination. So all the"so called Caste Hindus", it is your primary duty to shed off all ideas of caste poltics, invite dalits for a lunch ---

"Impassioned"Give me the date of the post where you read "my" statement, "lots of Christians have been killed this year by muslims in Pak.." It may be your imagination at work. Check and let me know. We should hear from Pak. Christians also. They know how much they have suffered.I do not admit to making up anything. Readers would know which one, of the two of us, is making things up. They would also know which one, of the two of us, deals with points in a rational manner.I take a comparative view of the world. I do not say that everything with a "Hindu" label on it, is either "hunky-dory" or "vile". People of the mid-east religions like you are the ones who make amazingly adamant "truth-claims". You are the ones saying, "We are the only ones with a "special line" to GOD." Hinduism respects ALL spiritually inclined individuals. It can relate to ALL sects that bring about ethical behaviour. It is now prepared to fight, peacefully, as much as possible, people who USE RELIGION AS A MEANS OF AGGRESSION against Hindus and Hinduism."Dr.A.K. Biswas" and you - answer if you can, 1) What was the role of the Church in the HOLOCAUST of SIX MILLION Jews between 1940 and 1945? Why did the Pope recently apologise to the Jews? 2) What was the role of the Church in the total destruction of the great civilisations of the MAYA, AZTEC AND INCA people of the Americas?It is recorded history that the Church had KNOWN ALL ALONG of the way Jews were mis-treated in the whole of Europe. The Church had castigated the entire Jewish community as early as the 8th century for the crucifiction and death of Jesus. In fact, it was the Roman imperialists who had destroyed Jewish civilisation, tried and crucified Jesus Christ. In the Americans precious records of the Maya, Aztec and Inca's were systematically burnt and all their religious artifacts melted for their gold or destroyed under Church supervision. Compare this record with that of Hinduism. It never ever destroyed any native cultures. On the other hand, it took on board many tribal deities on board. Many deities we are familiar with as being part of Hinduism, were originally part of many tribal, Dalit cultures.3) Why is it that Dalit Christians and Dalit Muslims are discriminated against by their fellow Christians and Muslims? Why is it that there is a caste system in those mid-east religions as practised in India? Why don't you guys set a good example for the Hindus?

>>>>>>The Hindus do not feel ashamed or embarrassed about these priestly highhandedness, meanness and hatred against dalits. They have no qualms of consicence to condemn these atrocities and discrimination.

Dr. Biswas....this corroborates the reports that I have too from many who have visited India and found the hideous prevalent practice of discrimination to be exercised blatantly or surreptitiously. Treating humans like dirt and filth because of their "caste" is most uncalled for and violates the constitution of reason. Those who then get converted into Christianity or Islam as they are being virtually driven into the arms of those faiths, should not be further wronged by being chased out of their dwellings and terrorized and maimed! The irony of it all is how unashamedly the perpetrators of these acts are at the helm of a few major political parties and are thus leveraging this angle to swing "popular Hindu vote" in their favor, for example in Kerala and in Gujarat. Blame is squarely on those then who vote according to this trend and reward the murderers and criminals as it satiates their appetite also for human discrimination in this day and age. Times have moved on but the purveyors of this nasty practice march on with unbridled impunity in modern India. South African apartheid-merchants learnt their lesson the hard way and eventually the Hindus of India will too if they keep on this same virtue-less path.

Hence Indica, you tacitly admit that you made it all up - that "lots of Christians have been killed this year by Muslims in Pak!" This is a highly dangerous and arbitrary approach as it sidelines the facts and shows a highly blinkered approach borering on the unreasonable as you start seeing things which do not even exist as you have yourself accepted eventually.

Now coming to India, as is reported in this very article, indeed there has been widespread killings of Christians and burning and rampaging of their churches by fundamentalist Hindus - that's a fact.

"Impassioned"There have not been any recent riots in Pakistan between Christians and Muslims - Because, a) the Christians know that there is no judiciary to protect them and b) they are not in enough numbers, as in India and c) they know the nature and scope of the violence they would have to meet, if they protest.Since you are passionate about truth and human rights, I suggest you do a google search on "Christians in Pakistan". Let us know what you find.

"Dr.A.K. Biswas"I showed your post to my cousin, who was in Puri last February. He worshipped at the Puri Mandhir in the company of two Dalit families. I am sorry to say, he described your point as "rubbish".You are living in the USA dreaming up your caste-centred thoughts. So you think Dalits can he "shooed" away from Puri temple? Are you for real? Why don't you to come down from your boulevard in the USA, stand at the entrance to the Puri Mandhir and watch who comes in. Since caste issues are uppermost in your mind, you may be able to tell who the Dalits are and who are not. There is no power in India who can stop a single Dalit from entering a famous temple.Next, I suggest you go to meet Mr.Karunanidhi, Mr.Rajasekara Reddy, Mr.Shibu Soren, Mr.Yediyurappa and other power-wielders in India and discuss your views with them. You may find that worthwhile.Your comments and views may have had some relevance in 1947. No longer. Perhaps, you went to the USA around 1947. You may not have noticed any changes in India in the last 60 years.Tell me sir, is the proportion of Afro-Americans in U.S. prisons still the same as in 1947? Is there the same degree of discrimination against them? I am asking because a lot of them are converting to Islam, same way as the Chandals did, perhaps, for the same reason, you think? May be you are not interested in the affairs of your adopted country. If so, I am sorry to have troubled you.

deepth:
If you read my comments there is no sweeping statement that Hindus are against Christians.
I also thought funding was abundant in Christianity only when you travel abroad do you realise funding is abundant in Hinduism too.
Christian marketing/Hare Krishna Marketing - Also you come across marketing in various forms for products/services etc. you don't buy all of them, you ignore if you don't like.

You said: So if in bakward states like Orissa or Bihar if some people get killed dont bring out sweeping statments that Hindus are againts Christians.

The above statement from you shows how much you value human lives. You want Orissa Bihar to remian backward but you have to tour the world.

Allama Iqbal - A poet who has been appropriated by people on both sides of the India-Pakistan border; claimed by many some in Pakistan as a visionary who agreed with the two nation theory (incorrect) and by others in India as a traitor (also incorrect), highlighted the nature of India's spiritual synthesis and the co-existence of its many faiths. It's composite and secular culture.In a poem called "Naya Shivala" (A New Temple), he puts forward his vision of an India that belongs to all people ... one where all see their religion as synonymous with taking care of the country and their fellow citizens.-----A NEW ALTARMy friend, Brahman, don't take offence... May I state an unvarnished truth?The idols in the temples are antiquated.They have taught animosity towards our own;Would God have taught the preachers The ways of violence and war?Disillusioned, I renounced temples and mosques;Abstained from pious sermons and stale parables.God (you say) resides in the idle idols?Why! Even a grain of India's sand is to me God.Where are our differences then? Join hands again and we will remove the curtains of doubts;We, the separated will reunite. Remove this shadow of the unfamiliar.The heart, for long a barren stretch;We will a new temple on it build.A land holier than all other pilgrimages!A temple whose spire will race the sky!Each dawn, amiable hymns from it will emanate,And intoxicate with camaraderie India's pilgrims.Power and peace, of these we Indians should sing.In our brotherhood, is the seed of world's salvation!-----What a contrast to where we stand today.

I am under obligation to address a few queries by friends like "Impassioned" on Puri temple entry in out time. Yes, if a dalit declares his social status, i.e, his caste, I am afraid, he will not be allowed entry inside the Jagannath Temple. He will be shoed away for his temerity.
Let me tell a very interesting historical episode on the priests' love for people in power. Lord Mountbatten, the last Governor General, accompanying Dr. B. R. Ambedkar, a Member of his Executive Council in 1947 paid a visit to Puri. The Brahmins of jagannath temple gave the last British Paramount a red carpet reception whereas Ambedkar was not allowed entry in the temple!!! [Please read the Mandal Commission Report quoting Prof. Madhu Dandabate who deposed before the Panel]
The Hindus do not feel ashamed or embarrassed about these priestly highhandedness, meanness and hatred against dalits. They have no qualms of consicence to condemn these atrocities and discrimination.
There is constitutional provision to give financial grants to certain Hindu temples in Kerala out of taxpayers money. The Orissa government of Mr. Naveen Patnaik in recent past has given financial support as grants to tide over the deficit budget of the Jagannath Temple. That again was out of taxpayers money. And a close look at the financial mismanagement in these shrines will shock anybody.
Let's also look at the Hindu action for keeping Hindu preists appeased and temples in running order.
A. K. Biswas,
USA

The greatness of a people or for that matter, a nation lies in its approach to the disadvantaged, underprivileged and discriminated. The poor, deprived and unfortunate people merit to be treated with highest respect, compassion and catholicity. Has the country done it adequately? Educational discrimination and inequality are most horrifying and eloquent illustrations of Hindu aproach to the underdogs of India. In a rare guesture, on 7th May 2007, the US Congress adopted a Concurrent Resolution on the status of Dalit discrimination in India. The European Union Parliament too have done so in similar vein. In both the cases, the representatives of those legislative bodies in US and EU have highlighted all forms of discrimination plaguing the lives of Dalits.That has not made any difference to the Hindu hotheads. Nor is there any visible sign of change of attitude and approach to them per se.
Let me give a historical example of its catastrophic impact of discrimination on nation's life. The Chandals in Bengal embraced Islam in tens of thousands and descendents of those converts alone stood at nine millions in 1901. This is all thanks to the upper caste Hindu oppression, exploitation and hatred against the Chandals. No mythological tale is complete across India without a hateful reference to the Chandal and those tales were/are over centuries relished by the Hindus. The caste now under a new nomenclature [from 1911] as Namasudra is about a crore souls. Besides India, they are in Bangladesh, Nepal and Pakistan. So the mischief or credit, if you so like, of creation of East Pakistan goes single handedly to the upper caste Hindu onslaughts against them. The Chandals, thus, got freedom by conversion. All this happened long, long before M. A.Jinnah and the Muslim League appeared on the political horizon!!! In 1947, when the partition took place in Bengal curbing out East Pakistan, the Muslim majority there arose on account of Chandal converts and their descendents solely. If ninety lakhs of them were deducted from the Muslims in East Bengal, they were in minority. Where could then the demand for Pakistan stand on religious ground?
A. K. Biswas,
USA

>>>>>>The minorities are under attacks all over India. The Christians in Orissa, Karnataka, Gujarat and Madhya Pradesh etc. are in news. Aggression against the Christians in Orissa, Karnataka,and Gujarat is particularly worrying as the local governments are perceived to be, overtly or covertly, in league with the attackers.

The problem is that if the underdogs in India without education, food in the stomachs and without medicare die in tens of thousands, no Hindu per se is bothered. But they will not allow them to seek or aspire to a life with dignity. Let them not get education, which the Christian missionaries provide.

Dr. Biswas, this is but a manifestation of the hand-in-glove approach between the murderous marauders and the political parties in power in those major regions of India - an unashamed unholy union which has made life hell in India for the poor downtrodden minotities.

>>>>>Indica wrote: How many Christians have been arrested and executed under your Hadood (Blasphemy) Ordinances, since that law was passed?

These are nothing but blatant lies and fabrications designed to create smokescreens. Now let me expose the one making this outrageously false accusation. Can he answer the question posed himself and substantiate it? He cannot because he does not even know what he is talking about. Ask him how many Christians have been killed in Pak in the last year because of religious riots. He would struggle to find a few instances and then equate that with what the intolerant Hindu marauders have done to Christians in a day alone according to the article we are allcommenting on.

It's time Indians own up to the intolerance and the skewed discrimination that is rife in their system. Some of their political parties like the infamous and blood-stained Hindu-based BJP are proudly stampeding over the rubble of minority rights and lives, and using Christian and Muslim exploitation and tagetting as a means to retain power.