This blog is devoted to stuff that white people like

#116 Black Music that Black People Don’t Listen to Anymore

All music genres go through a very similar life cycle: birth, growth, mainstream acceptance, decline, and finally obscurity. With black music, however, the final stage is never reached because white people are work tirelessly to keep it alive. Apparently, once a music has lost its relevance with its intended audience, it becomes MORE relevant to white people.

Historically speaking, the music that white people have kept on life support for the longest period of time is Jazz. Thanks largely to public radio, bookstores, and coffee shops, Jazz has carved out a niche in white culture that is not yet ready to be replaced by Indie Rock. But the biggest role that Jazz plays in white culture is in the white fantasy of leisure. All white people believe that they prefer listening to jazz over watching television. This is not true.

Every few a months, a white person will put on some Jazz and pour themselves a glass of wine or scotch and tell themselves how nice it is. Then they will get bored and watch television or write emails to other white people about how nice it was to listen to Jazz at home. “Last night, I poured myself a glass of Shiraz and put Charlie Parker on the Bose. It was so relaxing, I wish I had a fireplace.” Listing this activity as one of your favorites is a sure fire way to make progress towards a romantic relationship with a white person.

Along with Jazz, white people have also taken quite a shine to The Blues, an art form that captured the pain of the black experience in America. Then, in the 1960s, a bunch of British bands started to play their own version of the music and white people have been loving it ever since. It makes sense considering that the British were the ones who created The Blues in the 17th Century.

Today, white people keep The Blues going strong by taking vacations to Memphis, forming awkward bands, making documentaries, and organizing folk festivals. Blue and Jazz music appeal mostly to older white people and select few young ones who probably wear fedoras. But that doesn’t mean that young white people aren’t working hard to preserve music that has lost relevance. No, there are literally thousands of white people who are giving their all to keep old school Hip Hop alive.

Even as you read this, white people are telling other white people about the golden age of Hip Hop that they experienced in a suburban high school or through a viewing of The Wackness.

If you are good at concealing laughter and contempt, you should ask a white person about “Real Hip Hop.” They will quickly tell you about how they don’t listen to “Commercial Hip Hop” (aka music that black people actually enjoy), and that they much prefer “Classic Hip Hop.”

“I don’t listen to that commercial stuff. I’m more into the Real Hip Hop, you know? KRS One, Del Tha Funkee Homosapien, De La Soul, Wu Tang, you know, The Old School.”

Calling this style of music ‘old school’ is considered an especially apt name since the majority of people who listen to it did so while attending old schools such as Dartmouth, Bard, and Williams College.

What it all comes down to is that white people are convinced that if they were alive when this music was relevant that they would have been into it. They would have been Alan Lomax or Rick Rubin. Now the best they can hope for is to impress an older black person with their knowledge.

In a city like Chicago, the only blues clubs are on the northside. Blacks do not patronize blues clubs anymore and probably haven’t since even the 1970’s, possibly since it’s usually White guys in them, and no “blondes” to lust after.

Somebody’s never been to New Orleans . . . yes there are lots of white people here but there are many many black people. And we got the good kind of jazz you can dance to, not that intellectual bullshit.

I read the headline and thought: Finally, one that doesn’t apply to me, I don’t listen to rap or hip-hop at all. But right as I unpaused my iTunes to the Charlie Hunter Trio’s Fables of Faubus I realized the essay was about Jazz too. Damn you SWPL, stop stalking me!

I’m curious about this website. I’m also curious to know if there are any progressive cities on the planet built from the ground up by Black’s? I mean functioning, vibrant, modern cities..

I have always found it fascinating how Black’s cry about the injustices of the world but as soon as they have a lil money or fame they are the first one’s to look around for someone to look down on to make themselves feel better.

This site isn’t even close to being intelligent or progressive or humble.

This is by far the best entry since the book came out and SOOOO VERY TRUE. However as a black guy I’m offended that I’m supposed to like commercial rap. I hate it and totally listen to the underground.

Yet I find it funny that every show I go to is filled mostly with white people and half are probably there for novelty. The thing is whites buy/download more Rap/Hip Hop than anyone else because they are a majority and have resources to do so. And therefore going to be exposed to all types of Rap/Hip Hop.

WOW! What an ugly musically illiterate article! I haven’t seen ignorance since, maybe “deposit Beatles trash here” (I wasn’t there when people booed Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring off stage). Hey, why don’t we just burn all traditional jazz recordings now, now that “Indie Rock” has transformed all of music into the Sarah Palin-esque “We-only-look-forward” garbage idioms. Hell, let’s just “1984” all music except what this twit likes, and magically rename EVERY song ever played or recorded as crap.

I love when 20 year old clowns claim ownership of pop garbage. But ONLY a thoroughly uncreative non-musician would flush the primary American musical idiom so readily. Kind of stinks of racism; you people smell the odor?

christian, have you addressed white people’s love for their large, catalogued collections of bootlegged live performances? in the jazz realm, you’re not a real white person unless you can name that tune, every performer on each instrument, the year and venue. and preferably hum a few choicer licks.

“All white people believe that they prefer listening to jazz over watching television”

You have an exceptional ability to make sweepingly inaccurate and patently absurd generalisations Christian. Very few Black, White, or Asian people like Jazz. It’s a niche market. Jazz is not a “Black” musical phenomenon. Some people really do like Jazz and some of these people happen to be White. These people include the unashamedly racist poet Philip Larkin. Your unconvincing attempts to shoehorn this into the one-trick pony which is your comedic oeuvre is laughable.

To conclude from the observation that the majority of people who follow Hip-Hop, in whichever of its nauseating guises it presents itself, means that Black people do not like this genre, might have a fig-leaf of credibility if it were not for the fact that in a country with an overwhelming White majority, I think you will find that every musical genre is disproportionally subscribed to by the majority ethnic group…duhhh! My limited college retail experience in music stores does point out one racial preference that seems quite clear. Black people have virtually no interest in the more demanding, and ultimately more rewarding, musical forms.

Are you aware of that you start by writing “You have an exceptional ability to make sweepingly inaccurate and patently absurd generalisations Christian” and then you end with “Black people have virtually no interest in the more demanding, and ultimately more rewarding, musical forms”?

“They will quickly tell you about how they don’t listen to “Commercial Hip Hop” (aka music that black people actually enjoy), and that they much prefer “Classic Hip Hop.””

I just had this argument the other day with a blond girl. She says American clubs don’t play good hip hop. I said what, like Snoop, Dr. Dre, Biggie, Tupac? Her response: OMG, you call that hip hop? Me: Ohh so you listen to hip hop that only white people listen to!

I like Southern hip hop! Give me some Luda, Lil Jon, T.I so I can actually dance and not stand and sway!

The salient point of this conversation is really the contempt expressed for the authors musical preferences. This indicates that the young woman was engaged in an act of “negative affirmation”. NA is about enhancing your self-esteem by denigrating others. This being the case we are really dealing with social snobbery and this is not a phenomenon that can in any way by deemed to be racially exclusive to Whites, or, indeed exclusively expressed in the patronage of Blacks by Whites. As an example we have only to look at the late Joe Strummer, a Jewish member of the social elite who spent his entire career masquerading as a member of the White English underclass. Indeed, prior to the nineteen eighties far from having any interest in Black culture (unlike the White working-class who embraced Ska), the White middle-class intelligentsia were engaged in intense competition to appear as proletarian as possible. Obscurantist elitism is not a White phenomenon: why is it being discussed on a blog about White people?

I hope that you now realise that any activity undertaken by Whites is an attempt to establish a status that they don’t deserve and perpetuate a superior position in society that is no no way shape or form attributable to ambition, work and perseverance, and has its basis in “the exploitation mannnn!”, and that no one actually likes Jazz unless they are Black.

My joke has always been, “you get older, you get into jazz”, which does apply to urban white people fairly accurately. Basically you will go to a club with mostly white people (except the bass player) and you will eat an expensive dinner, “listening” to perhaps the first 2 songs before you get all wine-buzzed and talk about finance to your bored date.

BTW “jazz” is now officially a meaningless term which encompasses everything from squeaking dissonant noise to John Tesh/Kenny G.

So you have achieved a socially secure status, presumably from years of work and application, and you can now enjoy good food and wine and pleasant conversation, but you feel the need to apologise because you tend to enjoy an inoffensive musical genre as a pleasant backdrop to your evening? I’d suggest you stop groveling before sneering pseuds and maybe grow a pair?

I must admit that I am a jazz loving whitey. The birth of this love stems from 9 years of youth trumpet playing. I possessed solid technical skills but lacked the intangible qualities that the giants in jazz have that make them great.
Being total devoid of any creativity myself, I can’t help but to be moved by it in others.

I must admit that I am a jazz loving whitey. The birth of this love stems from 9 years of youth trumpet playing. I possessed solid technical skills but lacked the intangible qualities that the giants in jazz have that make them great.
Being total devoid of any creativity myself, I can’t help but to be moved by it in others.

Then surely you object to Christian’s racist claim that honkeys only fake an interest in Jazz as a means of boosting their PC credentials, because they have an inability to truly appreciate music (whiteboy ain’t got no soul). Why don’t you just go back to sleep Carl?

Notice how the vermilion domed Christian carefully and meticulously references all of the most relevant bands in this dispute. Christian is as anxious to display his credibility by testifying to his knowledge of Black culture (in as much as such a thing exists) as the group he deconstructs. When rap music gained popular appeal it lost elite appeal. The natural reaction of the elitist White music snobs was to reject the now popular Black music and to extend the claim that only pre-commercial Black music was “real”. Inevitably this “old school” “real” rap begun to attract the attention of White late adaptors who picked up the successive trends. The next stage in this sorry charade for White Music snobs is obviously to reject the increasingly popular old school rap and to re-embrace the “commercial” musical form that is being rejected by the late adopters. Far from being a critique of musical elitism, Christian’s post is an example of a White liberal elitist hopping like a frog on a hot shovel in an increasingly vain attempt to keep ahead of the fashion curve. This sorry charade is reminiscent of the infatuation that former punk rockers had with bands like ABBA whom they had previously expressed hatred for once their music had fallen out of fashion.

Jazz is the new Classical Music. Someday, Hip Hop will be show tunes and you’ll see on PBS during pledge time very very old rappers filling orchestra halls with Aarpers mouthing along to the lyrics, like you see now with Doo-wop or the lesser British Invasion bands.

At last a post that’s not just for American white people! Jazz has been ‘taken up’ by fashionable Europeans (almost all white people) for the longest time — it was they who were the keepers of the flame during the long years between the time the ‘cool school’ faded with hip whites took up drugs, sex and rock and roll and the more recent NPR-inspired revival of jazz.

“It is not written anywhere on this site that these habits and customs are exclusive to whites”

Okay! Let me rephrase, “This is not a phenomenon that can in any way be deemed to be significantly more evident among Whites thahn it is among any other groups”

If we now apply your degree of semantic rigidity to this blog title, we will find that “Stuff White People Like” now encompasses anything ever done by any White person at any time. Things like, eating chicken, wearing shoes and taking a shit on a full bowel for example.

I agree strongly with this post. . I LOVE the blues-masters (The Martin Scorcese mini series was great), and I just cannot get enough of old school James Brown (Funky Good Time), Earth Wind and Fire, the Commodores and the Brother’s Johnson. If you ever rent the Spike Lee Movie “Crooklyn” (A hidden gem, in my opinion) the soundtrack plays homage to early 1970’s soul…What I cannot understand with Hip Hop is that musicianship and vocals are non-existant.

I’m not a hypocrite because my opinion is based on credible evidence. Christian’s opinion is based on the slanted analysis of a biased sample. I probably do sound like a hypocrite to people who are of above average stupidity.

I am a black person and read this site for the market group perspectives. I laugh most of the editorials because of how dead on I think they are. This particular one was not only disappointing, wrong, but surprisingly obvious in regards to the type of eliticism these stories usually have as an undertone.

Blacks love Jazz, have you not recognized all the recent sub genres that only mostly blacks listen to

Beat Poetry
Neo Soul
Acid Jazz Est….

What frustrates me the most is that many people like yourself classify what is white with your middle to upper middleclass but do not do blacks the same justice.

Our poor often define us, even though our middle and upper middle class make up a very significant fiscal contribution to many major metropolitan areas.

When will you begin to see us and define us by our successes as appose to failures I wonder?

Anyway, I don’t put much faith in the ability of whites in American to see, understand, or change their conditionally racism, ( I guess that’s my eliticism popping out…lol) but I thought I write a comment just the same

You can justify it by comparing yourself to Christian Lander all you want. And defending your actions, while insulting those who call you on your mistakes (questioning our English, our “level of stupidity”), doesn’t change the fact that we know you’re a smart but confused individual screaming for an identity of an intellectual on Stuff White People Like. Funny but sad. :)

I have been listening to jazz and blues since I was a wee bairnie at the tat. I learned to love John Lewis, but I can’t stand Djangirov’s playing. Give me Oscar Peterson any day, all the old school guys.
And blues. Sigh. What jazz is for the intellect, blues is for the soul. The complete food group.

“What frustrates me the most is that many people like yourself classify what is white with your middle to upper middleclass but do not do blacks the same justice”

So as a Black man you are upset that middle class Blacks cannot be subjected to the same inaccurate and insulting stereotyping that Christian subjects Whites to? Christian is now pissing off Blacks who are asserting their right to be called superficial, patronising and hypocritical. Hal, my mind is going!

It says you are working out an angle to improve your social kudos and impress your friends. Don’t you get it? White people are incapable of just liking music. It’s probably to do with us being the “cancer of humanity”, or something

Or, you agree with the title “Stuff White People Like: Black Music that Black People Don’t Listen to Anymore,” didn’t read the post, and just wanted to leave a self promotional link without it looking like SPAM.

Any white person (and since I am one, I can say this) who is under the age of 35 who says, “Oh yeah, I’m down with the Old School” needs to be horsewhipped and connected to battery cables. The little shits weren’t even ALIVE when Old School was in.

And what about NWA?

Jazz has morphed too far to still be labeled “jazz.” I like Dixieland and ragtime, but I cringe when we call it “jazz” because it bears almost no resemblance to Miles and Thelonius.

Probably because most of the “whities” who love this sight don’t regard themselves as part of the white mainstream, but have a fantasy that they belong to a special, superior, enlightened white minority to whom the stereotypes don’t really apply.

I agree with the “enlightened white minority to whom the stereotypes don’t really apply” comment. I still think this site is hilarious, though, and a great opportunity to laugh at myself and ask, “Why do I like______?”

I also love how the premise at the end of each entry is always that someone is trying to befriend a white person, and is using this information as social collateral. Hilarious!

Absolutely and without a doubt one of the best SWPL so far…… I LOOOOOVED:

“Calling this style of music ‘old school’ is considered an especially apt name since the majority of people who listen to it did so while attending old schools such as Dartmouth, Bard, and Williams College.”

Your comment just proves how vastly different every person perceives information.
lol. My comment was a social point aka “grand stand”

And so I suppose to directly comment on your statement, yes I much rather even have negative points of view directed at the group of blacks that work hard, provide for our families, and contribute to society. Those of us within that group are more incline to hear criticism and establish dialogue towards a solution of healing racial pain.

Our poor traditionally don’t embrace diversity….lol…
Its all-good man I am sure you will find another negative comment to make about this statement as well

The whitest, white people I know LOOOOOOOVE their jazz, particularly while drinking a fine pinot. They also love to point out to less hip white people that they are attending a jazz show. Here’s how a convo might go:

“What’s about [insert white person’s name]. What are you doing this weekend?”

“Nothing good. You?”

“I’m going to Bloc Party.”

“Oh. I was thinking of going to that, but I don’t like their new album very much and now that they are on One Tree Hill, I like them even less. Plus, [insert name of obscure, probably awful jazz artisit here] is playing at Johnny D’s on the same night and I’ve got to see him. But have fun at your less cool show.”

God I hate jazz. And the white people who like it because they don’t like it either.

for a religion spanned from inclusion its amazing how incredibly exclusive many people make it. The Christian religion I know rarely has a big church and a denomination, and usually serves the public with no other intention than to serve others

No need for international trips abroad or political endorsement. I suppose they just think we should love god first ourselves second and our fellow man

Yes! I’ve been waiting for this one. I became a fan of the blues and then I started going to clubs seeing nothing but white people playing and being in the audience. I began to ask myself, “what do these people know about the blues?” It seemed very fake. If there is one thing the blues are about it’s coming to terms with really deep sad feelings brought on by a hard lived life. I can see the white people in the crowds perhaps feeling blue because ‘they didn’t get a promotion’, or ‘their car broke down’ or ‘didn’t have a recipe turn out right.’ White yuppy people love to skim the surface of things and skip to the next thing. They love the mechanics of the blues and can talk about it, but they don’t live it. No way. They couldn’t handle it and would resort to losing themselves in video games and buying crap rather than deal with something head on.

Shut up, all of you, shut up. What the hell is going on? I’m convinced people listen to what they like. Their choice is something that, in most cases, is a free choice. What the hell is all this blabber from clander to Steve about? Lander it might be time to get a real job.

lol Amen, Its amazing the depth of Euro centrism, First upper Africa and all its history, then Spain, American history as a whole, and now music, well to be honest, white have been claiming black music since its inception.

Hey, just a point of reference white people, if another group of people from a different race create something amazing, it doesn’t make you less of a race, aka Egyptians society, Moors, and southern Africa,

If Obama does well Kenya well soon be considered white next………lol

Every race is beautiful in their particular way. You don’t have to piss on it to lay a false claim to enjoy it. I know that’s how our country got started and all but geesh I though we have learned from that mistake lol

I just played some “old school hip hop” for a group of boring late-20 somethings from my predominantly white hometown at a wedding this weekend. Cries of, “Hell yeah, bra!” went up as the boom boom of their 90s past played over the speakers. I wanted to vomit on myself.

This is totally true. I hate it when i go to a club with my white friends and the “old school” session comes on and the battle to show me ( the one black friend they have) that they are “down” and know all the lyrics to Sir Mixalot’s ” I like big butts” followed by the next 5 songs the DJ plays in that category. LOL

Good article, but I think there is still love for Jazz by blacks. My dad turned me on to Jazz when I was a kid and I have been a fan of Miles Davis ever since. But as a hip hop head, and any hip hop head could agree with is that jazz plays a vital role in the genre. When I say hip hop I mean true hip hop with all its essence, not that commercial crap on the radio. But just listen to the samples in the music, it all comes from Jazz. One of my favorite groups Slum Village has a song that samples John Abercrombie Timeless track. And just a few weeks ago a DJ has a album in which he remixed several of the Miles Davis classics from Bitches Brew and other albums. To go further just a bit Gangstarr always comes with a Jazzmatazz album fusing hip hop and jazz together. I could go on and on to validate this point, Jazz is very much alive in the hearts of young black people, just like anything you just gotta find them.

Well I believe The Hip Hop that has been 80’s influenced has and will always have an esoteric following in Black Society. Those who listen to music don’t change their opinion about what’s good music it’s just this new generation has been influenced by what the media has pushed. Since corporate don’t have the ties with the So-Called Old Skool Hip Hop, they haven’t been promoted. But It’s great to see White Asian Black Latin and Europeans grooving to the essence of what the culture is about. So regardless of the fly by night stars, like the a lot of Music that comes from the South, the cream well always rise no matter how far they try to bury it. It’s crazy because I heard an Old Skool MC say that he has more fans now than he did we his music was new and hot. I think All People Recognize that we are one soul and the more we accept each other’s culture the more we can be one family. One Nation Under A Groove.

I also think there’s still a love of jazz by blacks, but blues audiences are mostly white. I used to work at a jazz and blues club and the one exception would be when the white Mose Allison played, the audience was mostly black.

My favorite romanticized notion of black urban life was captured in Method Man & Mary J. Blige’s video for “You’re All I Need.” I identify with it completely because I too like sitting on rooftops. It’s as if the video’s director filmed my entire life/struggle exactly as it were if I could make it exactly how it is not.

Oh, and Christian, I’ll happily do the copy editing for the site. Just give me five min before you publish a new entry. As everyone knows, my content-rich website contains precisely zero typographical errors. I pride myself on this almost as much as I do on the 800 verbal I got on my SATs.

I read this post twice and all of the comments here thus far. Not really sure if I agree or disagree with the OP due to the fact that I’m not a white person. I can say I have been in the situation where a white person brings up some now defunct Hip-Hop group, artist etc. or may even segue into a Jazz band or artist as a way of trying to connect with me on some level.

Since I have a blog where I attempt to bring underground artists and groups to light while also reviewing older albums from established artists and groups in an effort to show the universal aspect of music, I find the humor in what the OP is trying to convey but am also disturbed by the writing of a post to make a statement as broad and sweeping as you have. I get the tongue in cheek of the blog but assuming that White People only like Jazz or the Blues or “Old School” anything just it because it seems to be the “in thing” to do and to show a black person (how more than likley could care less) they are “down” is utterly ridiculous to me. It’s almost as if you are saying that these genres are undergoing an “Audio Gentrification” similar to thousands of predominately black and hispanic communities in the US solely for a gain in status. Music is too universal for that. I don’t feel it can be contained in a pre-concieved box of that sort. You either listen to it or you don’t. You like it or you don’t. If someone takes the time to turn you on to it and you then get into it more, kudos!

I have these types of discussions on a regular basis and they can be quite enlightening for both parties involved, unless the person I am speaking with has no real clue as to the real history of any genre or is unaware of how it all links together and is just spouting nonsense and is unwilling to embrace a real discussion. It is quite incensing to have a person that pretends to want knowledge about the subject strike up a conversation to appear in the know and then not be able to back up any point they are trying to make.

That being said and going back to the OP, now that this has been written in glaring black and white, are you also attempting to state that ALL black people don’t listen to Jazz, Blues, Funk etc? If you really think about it, those genres might not be as mainstream as other music of today that gets heavy rotation on modern Radio and Video networks but most of those songs take root in those other Genres in the form of sampling. Is it the actual complete origianl work? No. Will most people be able to pick those samples out and instantaneously state with glee; ” Hey, that’s a Stan Getz song, that J. Dilla sampled part of for the Pharcyde’s song Runnin’ from their Labcabincalifornia album!”? Of course not.

I guess that is another major purpose for my blog as I listen to all mentioned genres and have taken the time to attempt to upload them to several Virtual Hard drives to give people a way to access the same music you state we (Black People) don’t listen to.

Personally, I can’t wait for the day when black people start getting in to harsh noise. That’s a genre pretty much entirely dominated by Asians and Whites (plenty of the wrong kind of white people in that crowd though).

I have tried to expose the African American teens that I teach to Jazz, Blues, Soul, and Funk with the zealotry of a white evangelical missionary in the Congo. Occaisionally they feign interest, or say “My Gramma listen to that junk.” Of course, they are all going to successful rappers, so why should they bother to learn about some of the greatest art ever created in the USA? When they start talking about the big stack of dough, bling, Lambos, booty, cribs, etc. they gonna get when they bigger than T-Pain, I suggest that they pick a weekend a couple of months hence and make as much as they would on a single shift at McDonald’s, say 50 bucks, in that weekend rapping. “Huh?” I then hear the gears turning, and often the deer in the headlights look appears on the face. Then I teach: “If you want TO ALWAYS MAKE MONEY in the music business, learn Blues. There is always a tavern that will let you play there and collect money from the white people in the audience, who will be very happy to pay it to you.”

But I do like the white people that comment about how white other white commenters are. What I love is that white people love to call out other white people as white and thus prove that they aren’t so white themselves.

White people also like to call out other white people that call out white people for being white. And on and on….

Nick. Glenn Miller, Duke Ellington, Benny Goodman, Sinatra, etc. and basically ALL of the music that was on the radio in the 40s was jazz. I know people back then were smarter than folks today, but it’s probably possible for you to learn to appreciate jazz, even the more advanced stuff. I suggest you start with “Charlie Parker with Strings” and work your way up to Miles, Coltrane, Jimmy Smith, and the other greats.

I like to listen to Fifties R&B and imagine I would have been a cool enough white person to go to a black neighborhood where they actually sold it in the Fifties back when they used to call them, “race records.”

Ahhh…. The golden age of hip hop… Brings back memories of high school… Tribe, De La, LONS, Black Sheep, Das EFX, Fu-shnickens, Brand Nubian…. Yes, I am in fact naming all these groups to impress everyone as that’s exactly what white people who listen to the old school do.

Know what’s even more obnoxious? Assuming all white people have easy lives. Its equally bad as the assumption that all poor people have hard lives.

By your logic, any poor black person who listens to rap talkig about living lavishly and being rich, hookers, etc, and aren’t themselves rich, aren’t living the life of a rap star and can’t understand it then.

Just want to point out that there are many Black people who actually do listen to hip hop such as De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, etc.
But I do remember I was at Rock the Bells that had a bunch of hip hop acts and Rage Against the Machine, and when Mos Def came on, a group of white people went crazy. Almost as if he were Obama, ha.

I know that it may be offensive to you, but keep in mind that the whole blog pretty much is just making fun of white people. I’m a bit offended that as a white person I can’t actually enjoy classical or jazz music. The message I get from the entries is “pretentious shallow guy with too much money”. But I laugh at that and move on.

An important part of appearing someone’s intellectual superior (aka The Lisa Simpson Syndrone or LSS) which afflicts us whitefolks is that you like what is obscure and not what everyone else likes – this gives the appearance that you have refined tastes.

Being conversant with Jazz is okay, but only if you know the Jazz played more than 50yrs ago. Similarly, if you are going to say I prefer Hip Hop, it is best to choose a group that no-one ever heard of.

However, all this takes time consuming research and patience, having to develop your own tastes, remembering names of artists e.t.c

A much easier way that achieves the same results is to denigrate mainstream artists or pop figures – a perfect choice is Kylie Minogue.

“I hate Kylie Minogue, she’s so commercial” is your ticket to instant refined tastes status, without the hassle of having to listen to any music

lol Amen, Its amazing the depth of Euro centrism, First upper Africa and all its history, then Spain, American history as a whole, and now music, well to be honest, white have been claiming black music since its inception.

Hey, just a point of reference white people, if another group of people from a different race create something amazing, it doesn’t make you less of a race, aka Egyptians society, Moors, and southern Africa,

If Obama does well Kenya well soon be considered white next………lol

Every race is beautiful in their particular way. You don’t have to piss on it to lay a false claim to enjoy it. I know that’s how our country got started and all but geesh I though we have learned from that mistake lol

ok
#1I’m white…, at leat i belive i am
#2 i like jazz
#3 i wear fedoras
………..
T_T <<<<<<*crys*
what are you trying to say?
i was wondering are these supost to only be for white males or females too? at least for the most part?<3<3<3<3 loves this place …: ( but my school has the site blocked

That was quality, son! Glad to see this site getting back on track. That was a clever idea and well executed. I think you can link this back to how all white people love the album “Midnight Marauders” by A Tribe Called Quest.

The part about only liking old school or non commercial “hip hop” (which isn’t a music style, rap is) is hilarious and so true with white people.

If you are a white person who likes commercial rap (and not the wrong kind of white person) you had better be the type who makes sure to make a big show of it, dancing in an exaggerated way and making corny gestures, maybe throwing in a “yall” or “dawg” in conversation once in awhile.

i find this sooooooo funny and the white people i know have afro-man on their i pods and yes some vanilla ice but classic hip-hop is actually considered what was hot when you were in the young prime of your life and what was your soundtrack to life .
the classics are jay-z nas, talib kweli , mos def , camp lo , etc.

I find this site sooooo boring. Does anyone have anything worth reading too say. I knew YOU PEOPLE were full of it when it came to ethnic music, but too what extent. This is just plain awful. I had more fun rearranging my underwear drawer than reading some of these blogs. How does anyone of non black background know what music afro american people listen too. Further more, who really cares. Stick too what you people know, poorly remade rythme and blues music recorded by alot of piss poor non white musicians. LOL.

I guess Im the wrong kind of white person, but am I the only person who thinks rap and hip hop is kind of retarded. Ok lets take a James Brown/80’s new wave sample and perform rhyming poetry over it. Old school or new school it has to be the most talentless form of music since a neanderthal first banged on a drum. Ok maybe some guys who can freestyle are impressive and I have to admit some of the more commercial stuff is fun and kind of catchy, but I’ll take music with guitars and actual singing any day.

In college in the early 2000’s I used to go to a bar where they played Biggies “Juicy” and all the middle class white kids from LI and Westchester used to go crazy. It was a “white chicks and gang signs” extravaganza. People singing along to a song that they cant relate to in anyway, it was the only time in my life I was embarrased to be white.

I am a DJ at my college radio station, and let me tell you something. We have a Reggae show (hosted by a white guy), Blues show (black and white guy), Abstract hip hop show (white guy), Jazz show (white guy,korean girl), Soul music show (white guy), and our other hip hop shows are hosted by black people.

you didn’t really mention Reggae, but that is a BIG genre that has a large white listener base.

I used to listen to a little bit of Dead Prez, busdriver, Dalek, and Cannibal Ox, but i stopped listening because i kind of just did it to look like i had some rap on my ipod.

i love noise! Prurient, Gang Gang Dance, Merzbow, Sunn O))), Fennesz, Nurse with Wound, Black Dice, Einsturzende Neubauten, Animal Collective, and the works. but i am not the WKWP. I can’t wait till afro-americans experience as much individualism as us (irony). if this site taught me anything it is that White people’s perceived individualism isn’t that individual. It is pretty ironic, since white people complain about blacks and other minorites not listening to different kinds of music like them, however, most white people adhere to the posts of this site. I just blew my mind.

there have been people here that have tried to make a good point and failed. essentially this site partakes in a socially acceptable form of stereotyping and racism. when it says “white people” it presumes to classify a race as what is more accurately described as a liberal stereotype. so people have said, what if there was a list about things black people liked and then said things like “chicken”. now this is not fair because this site is successful precisely because it goes above that basic level of stereotyping and is a lot more sophisticated and insightful in it’s racism. (and honestly i agree with a lot of the things you say, i just don’t think that makes it any less racist). it would be interesting for an author, preferably this author, or another black author, to post a list of things black people love. don’t say you are black. just post it, and see how long it takes before people start calling you a bigot. what if that list included things like:

*louis farrakahn– i’ve never met a single non-black person who thought he was an admirable individual

*being “in da’ club”– just do a brief survey of how many of the hip hop songs in the top 40 charts right now talk about being in the club

as you can see all of these things refer to a single type of black person, a stereotype that rings true in some of our minds. it’s no more of less racist than anything else on this site because racism doesn’t necessarily mean negative attitudes, it just mean attitudes based on race.

Good points, and well said. But, as long as we continue to apply racist principals to words, and they are just words, we will never be allowed to celebrate diversity by acknowledging our cultural differences without offending.

As humans being, we all need to evolve into emotional creatures with thicker skin.

Then we can truly celebrate and enjoy our cultural diversity without worrying about who we will offend.

the typos and bad grammar were very distracting. while i do thoroughly enjoy this website, i’d appreciate it if the next article was proofread. and yes, i realize my appreciation for good grammar makes me a stereotypical white person.

I don’t like jazz, and I don’t claim to like jazz, but old-school-2Pac is GREAT! A Tribe Called Quest! Fugees!

COME ON!!!

Alright, so I went to a suburban high school, and all my firends wished they were black. But I didn’t even listen to that stuff back then all that actively! I only recently re-discovered these. They really ARE great!

true that – very few people with an actual sense of humor ever comment here … most of the posts are by someone who got their feelings hurt because something struck home or by someone who feels the need to battle racism on a spoof site. Today’s post was actually pretty lame compared to some of the early ones. And, hey, maybe you should rearrange your underwear drawer and relax… you sound bitter.

I didn’t read all of this incredibly long diatribe from a professional blogger because after two paragraphs it got unbelievably boooooorrriiing. My gawd, man, say it and move on. Pick your emotion, create your prose, and move on. Quickly!

Jeezus Khrist, I told myself to control my anger, and I lost it. I’ll try again tomorrow.

You really think white people are the ones keeping jazz, blues and conscious/”classic” hip-hop alive? That seems like giving a lot of credit where its NOT due. just cause they listen to it/appropriate it doesnt mean that Black people have given up on it. not at all.

Very good post! This site is an insidious facet of a campaign of deligitimisation of Western (White) civilization, which is being undertaken by the White intelligentsia, whose aim is the restructoring of society with themselves as a new elite. These cultural Marxists know that they have zero ideas that appeal to the public and are incapable of formulating constructive social innovation, and so depend upon a withering and relentless campaign of carping, complaining and criticisism of the established paradigm.

In my freshman year at a small, rural, 99.9% white liberal arts college – this was 2001 – we had Naughty by Nature perform at the school’s annual spring festival. It was hilarious. Until they invited a bunch of girls back to their rooms and proceeded to trash the local Holiday Inn. That was the last “big name” act we had on campus, but at least we did our part to keep aging hip-hop alive.

I am very relaxed JkinLBC, Im just amused at the comments i am reading here. My feelings were never hurt and mommy and daddy never touched me inappropriately, I just think that all your comments SUCK!!!! It is my constitutional right to feel that way. Its not slanderous because its true. I have not seen anyone mention Public Enemy yet, I guess the truth hurts sometimes. Its OK, I understand. I didnt mean to make you cry, it will be better in the morning. Now suck it up and take a hike. Nobody asked for your opinion anyways. I am finished with you.

It’s always a shock to white liberal aficionados of militant chic, whose stance is nothing more than a fashion statement, to discover that militant , hostile and confrontational attitudes projected by underclass minorities, are actually the result of hostile militant, confrontational attitudes. Never mind! The capacity of White liberals to not learn from their own experience will surely overcome!

jkinlbc, i do have a humor, i just dont see anything funny here. my feelings have never been hurt and mommy and daddy or anyother relative or friend touched me inappropriately. I just know what i know and that is this, especially you SUCK. i have not seen anyone mention Public enemy yet. you are right on one thing, this post is LAME, i have to be the judge on the other ones, time will only tell. so, go bite the big one and let me do what i do DUDE. my bad, did i hurt your feelings, did i make you cry, take it like whatever you are and hit the road. I am finished with youl.

After its success in Russia Marxism failed in Europe, because it was opposed by the workers it was supposed to appeal to. Marxist intellectuals theorized that this failure was due to the hold of traditional values and traditional culture. A campaign of cultural subversion was launched, which was brought to America after WWII in the form of the Frankfurt School. Marxism was essentially a movement that appealed to intellectuals, the modern American intelligentsia are as febrile in their support of neo-Marxism as their antecedents were in their support of paleo-Marxism.

dahoffa, you act like you recognize that term “you people”, i guess you use it often. the sword dont feel so good on the receiving end huh….., i said several things in my blogs and all you could focus on was YOU PEOPLE, all i have to say is take it anyway you like. HA, anything else you want to say SON, i am a busy person and dont have time to play around with the likes of you.

Dude, that shit is funny as hell…and since i said dude…you would be right in thinking i’m white…but i can recognize the funny when i see it…now did someone see my illmatic cd…i need black people to think i know what i’m talking about when it come to the rap

Yup! Racist humor is funny as hell. That’s why Cultural Marxists had to work for so hard and so long to prevent people making jokes about Blacks, Jews, Asians, Women and Homosexuals. We’ve now got Henry Ford racism, you can have any style you like, as long as it’s white!

OMG, I can hardly stand it. I actually change the genre on most of my jazz and old vocal standards to “Dinner music” so I can just hit the playlist when people come over for dinner parties. People always say, “You have the best dinner music”. And it’s the only time I listen to it. IASW!

I hate jazz music, and I can’t even admit that in public because of the look of disdain I get every time I do. And jazz brunches? Why the eff would I want horn instruments blaring in my ear when I am hungover and trying to get some greasy food time.

Eventually white people get around to inserting white people into the origins of said music.

“Well, you know the African adopted the European scale which is what enabled Jazz itself to be formed in the first place so it can’t rightly be called ‘Black music’.”

“Well, you know, Black people were sampling hard rock records on turntables invented by white people which is what enabled Hip Hop to be created in the first placeso it can’t rightly be called ‘Black music’.”

“Well, you know, white people created the horrible conditions that inspired The Blues so it can’t rightly be called ‘Black music’.”

So on and so forth.

The tragedy, of course, is that there is no popular musical form today that can be traced back to a “white” origin. We’re EVERYWHERE even the White House! ESPECIALLY your White House!

I always read comments by individuals who claim to be white that this blog is racist. I would like to point out a few things that argue against this claim.:

1) Scholars (Research Psychologist and Sociologist) of Racism and Sexism define these -isms as racism/sexism = prejudice + power. And they distinguish between discrimination, prejudice and racism though laypeople tend to use these terms interchangeably. See the definitions below.

2) This is blog is clearly humorous and it is satire.

3) One could argue that that this blog is prejudice, but prejudice assumes that there is no knowledge, thought or reason. I believe that this blog is written with knowledge, thought and reason, the authors are clearly writing about people they know and themselves.

4) At best this blog is a stereotype of white people who are upper class and liberal. This is clearly not about all white people. This rules out racism because racism is strictly about being a member of a different racial group based on skin color and other physical features.

5) Even black people make fun of other black people. Black comics have always made jokes about black people. Most white people are less aware of this because the shows typical have a largely black audience. However, watch an episode of In living Color or the Chapelle show, if you don’t believe me. I think the problem here is that SOME white people are uncomfortable about anything that criticizes/mocks them. And some of these people are prejudice against blacks — hence the comments some of the arbitrary negative comments against blacks. Clearly MOST of the white readers see this blog as humor.Do you believe that black humor by black people is the result of racism?

Definitions from the National Association of School Psychologists:

Prejudice: Prejudice is an attitude, opinion, or feeling formed without prior knowledge, thought, or reason.

Discrimination: Discrimination is differential treatment that favors one individual, group, or object over another. The source of discrimination is prejudice, and the actions are not systematized.

Racism: Racism is racial prejudice and discrimination supported by institutional power and authority used to the advantage of one race and the disadvantage of other race(s). The critical element of racism which differentiates racism from prejudice and discrimination is the use of institutional power and authority to support prejudice and enforce discriminatory behaviors in systematic ways with far reaching outcomes and effects.

What a great post!! Captures the dickheaded pomposity and superiority mixed with condescension (Not to mention the kissing of black ass–which is whiter peoples favorite sport) of whitey,as he blubbers about Mississippi John Hurt and Muddy Waters et al. White people have this great capacity to lick the anuses of older blackies,the people that blacks themselves have gotten sick of–as the poster says. Yep,jazz is horrible. Blues (electric) is mostly junk,but sometimes is actually good. But whitey listening to “old school hip-hop”—YOU DUMBASSESS!!! “De La Soul”???? Go to hell!!

You’re an idiot! Of COURSE the music can be traced back to us. What kinda music did you guys have in Africa??(That is when you werent busy selling each other to the Arab slavetraders??) Just banging on the drum all day. White people have music that stands on its own(from an unlimited diversity—I hate that word–of folk music all the way up to Mozart)but black music is totally dependent on the European element to be worthwhile. I mean,what do you listen to out of Africa?? (Aside from people screaming??)

To Comment on #116 Black Music that Black People Don’t Listen to Anymore by Nicole

I wonder if you miss the best feature of this site: the pointlessness of being above it all. White people REALLY like “Stuff that White People Like” Sure, your comments are true enough at some level, but is not like saying water is wet? To observe racism is bad is true, but is it about as insightful as being against cancer.

Is seems the more helpful insight is that we are all “prejudice”. I have a prejudice in favor of Honda and against Ford. Ok, maybe the word is preference, but regardless of the word you use and the definition you impose the reality is that we make choices based on both informed and uniformed preferences about many things and prejudice/preference always enters the equation when is comes to the way we act and react to others. Some women may have a prejudice against short, stocky bald men (I can attest that many do). Is that wrong of them, is that a moral failure? No, if you in questions of romance, it is a question of personal preference, Yes if the issue is civil rights.

With all due respect to the learned Dr. West, and the requirement that racism exist only when conjoined to power, it misses the more universal truth that all people (all, coming from the original Old English word meaning “all”) make distinctions between US and THEM. Race is just the easiest way to make an US and THEM distinctions (“race” is a word of little scientific precision; there certainly are groups with more or less genetic diversity). Babies are drawn to other babies and often afraid of men – small = us, big = them. Young children often segregate according to sex – boys with boys, girls with girls. Teenagers segregate by clicks, Jocks = us, Goths = them (or vice-versa)

Until we all admit that we all make justified and unjustified; moral, amoral, and immoral choices based on US and THEM and that is it so much bigger than race and racism we will never make progress. The key is to make sure the US does not have the power to treat them unjustly. A necessary condition of this ideal is that we quit fretting over the fact we will always divide ourselves in to US and THEM.

You make a good overall point about the differences in cultural acts that are in and of themselves funny, but critique of ethnic practices for the sake of humor is not racism. Racism requires,

a) the belief in distinct races based on physiological/genetic distinctions (which, of course, do not exist)
b) the belief that such groups can be placed on scales of value that indicate one is better than another.
c) a general institutional support of this overvaluation of one group over another (for instance, in job hiring, political representation, relative earnings, imprisonment, health, and so on).

So I think an attitude based on race requires the idea that races exist, that some are better than other, and that some are doing better than others in order to be racism, per se.

Just an fyi, because you must have been absent that day in ebonics…”to” and “too” have different meanings. You have used “too” incorrectly every time in your writing, just swap ‘em around in your rantings and you should be all set!

Come on.. Jazz and the Blues are still alive for black people too. I love Jazz, and I love hip hop combined with it, which is often the “old school” stuff. If by commercial rap you mean most of the mainstream, gangsta stuff, then I guess I’m not black cause that stuff is crap (a lot of it anyway). Seriously, I like most posts you put on here but I’ve gotta call you out on this. The so called “old school rap” (which some artists still make?) is the best kind, and it IS real hip-hop–just ask Nas.

I think Soul and Funk count. Let’s not forget Hollywood’s obsession with having Julia Roberts and various other starlets sing along to Motown hits in a touching moment that brings everyone together. That may be more of a ’90’s technique, but it sure is effective.

African music sounds like people screaming??? LoL, you should ask a few black folks what heavy metal sounds like to them… Blues, rumba, salsa, jazz all derive from African traditions that were brought to the west via the slave trade. This is why they are traditionally referred to as Black music… Not because the majority of artists are Black. Many contemporary genres (punk, rock, pop, even indie) originate from Rock n Roll which has deep roots originating from Blues music.

And THAT is what we listen to out of Africa… So, next time you’re listening to Nickelback on your Mp3 you will know that African music made it possible… :)

Its cool white folks prefer “Classic Hip-Hop”, but can we keep it out of the karaoke line-up? If I hear Baby Got Back one more time Ima throw my drink at somebody…

If I ever questioned if whites, (as a whole), were incapable of understanding and accepting people that don’t look, act, or speak like them, I am definitely without question positive that it’s (for the most white people) true now after reading many of your posts. Lol. But many will think I am referring to the some one who obviously shows his disdain, but apathy is just as ugly in regards to compassion for others or lack thereof. PC is necessary for most of you because its not natural to be respectful I suppose. Unfortunately, oppression has affected many blacks and those of use succeeding despite of it have begun to accept you behavior as a byproduct.

To the guy that talks about the site being for whites, I give you that’s, kind of like blacks and Ebony, but you wont see anything in ebony or anything that “black people like” that is polarizing.

Its cool man, you guys have ruled, in comparison to the other races, for a short term on this earth, and unless your thinking becomes more inclusive, (kind of how Rome stayed up for awhile) then your rule will pass soon enough….lol

As a white person who enjoys the blues (but not jazz) I have to say that there are far too many of us who like to think they’re being culturally aware by doing so. I just happen to like the sound, but many people talk about how much they “empathize with black experience” because they listen to Muddy Waters or Buddy Guy. Just shut up and enjoy the music.

I would only argue the country point. Some of it may be derived from proto-ranchero music, but some of it is derived from Irish and Scottish musical traditions brought to Appalachia from Scotch-Irish immigrants (is it white to call a group Scotch-Irish?).

However, the rest of pop music? (I mean anything they play on the radio that isn’t in a classical format) is DEFINITELY derived from African traditions. And I like it like that!

And I think alot of the RKOWP actually enjoy commercial hip-hop, they just don’t want to it admit for fear of being mocked by their friends. How else do you explain acts like Rianna, TI, and Chris Brown consistently being the top single downloads on iTunes. When you get caught you can sheepishly laugh and say its a “guilty pleasure.” White people love guilty pleasures!

It’s not his production and mixing that I have a problem with, in fact- most of the time I am thoroughly impressed by it.
I just wish he would shut up and stay behind the scenes; most of the time. I don’t really think he’s the best MC and that a lot of his beats would sound so much better with somone else over them.

I’m a Scandanavian-American from northern Wisconsin/NE Minnesota. I love the blues and have traveled to Chicago, Mississippi and Memphis for blues tourism.

I’ve always wondered if there are black kids from the south who make pilgrimages to northern Minnesota to track down obscure polka players. If a carload of African-Americans from Alabama will ever show up at my great aunts house and ask her to play some tunes on her concertina for them.

damnit. how you continue to cut to the core of my whiteness and stuff i like is just straight-up uncanny. i like jazz. i like hip-hop (but not 98% of commercial hip-hop). and i also like blues (except when performed by awkward middle-aged white dudes).

though, i actually do listen because i enjoy it. not because i pretend to relate to the majority of themes on say, The Chronic. i grew up in suburban minnesota and therefore relate more to The Jonas Brothers.

It’s a free exchange. Black music takes from white music, white music takes from black music. Soon enough it will all just be music (just take a look a rap-metal or white rappers or black rockers). Anyway, it’s nothing new either, just listen to this “old-school hip-hop” that takes it’s music straight from the whitest of white bands. Kraftwerk – a bunch of German nerds playing around on electrical equipment.

As the wrong kind of white person in college, I used to hate it when fellow (white) classmates would go on an on about Robin Hitchcock, Nick Cave or whoever the f—. It was all a big game of who could be the most esoteric. The height of this nonsense: I was once in a bar with friends and my pseudo-date actually LEFT the building while a certain popular song was being played because it apparently pained his highly refined sensibilities too much to listen to it for 3 minutes, let alone dance to it. Needless to say, he did not get any play that night. Jackass.

I know all kinds of people who like various forms of jazz, swing, blues, whatever, but they don’t have to announce it to everyone. There is a certain kind of white person who will self-consciously talk about it ad infinitem. Often it’s the twenty-years-later version of the people who crowed about the obscure indie rock they listened to in college. There may be a certain kind of black person who does this too, but I have never met that kind of black person, so I wouldn’t know.

Still, busted: I have found myself referring to “Old School” lately while talking about such gems as Digital Underground’s “The Humpty Dance,” Run-DMC’s “It’s Tricky” and Salt’n’Pepa’s “Push it.” And I have no idea what I’m talking about, other than it is “old” and dates from the time when I was in highschool.

Sorry to get technical here but there’s an entire discipline call ethnomusicology. Africans did indeed bang on logs but its music if mainly vocal. The scale used is mostly pentatonic (five note) plus those “blue notes” between major/minor thirds and seventh. Blues is the closest to African roots. Jazz is a hybrid of the European harmonic system with Blues (African). Thus in coldly scientific terms, Jazz is a product of musical miscegenation. And I disagree that punk and heavy metal contain any African influence at all. When you eliminate ska punk (itself a mixed race baby), the metal/punk tradition is Celtic/Nordic European folk music on steroids. When you add Classical European influence, you get the likes Iron Maiden . Finally, the decline of rap followed the decline of white musical forms as well. Old School rap sold to white college kids in the 80’s because it had a high level of excellence in composition and execution. As all new genres degenerate, its standards decline as it tries to find a bigger audience and approaches least common denominator. Not everything sucks these days. Excellence is still out there.

As soon as I saw the title of this post, I busted out laughing because it is SO true. I anjoy a lot of jazz and “old school” hip hop myself, so I can really identify with this one. This post applies to the majority of my friends, too.

hey SML, thanks for the english lesson but the next time i want your opinion, i will give it toooo you. no go take a flying hike and save your unwanted grammar lessons to someone who gives a rats butt.

Back in the 80s/90s artists like Too $hort, NWA, E-40, etc. were “Underground Rap” while the Neo-Afros like Del, Heiro, De-La, KRS, Pharcyde, etc. were “Mainstream”.

Times change, but one thing doesn’t:

At no point in Hip Hop’s history have white folks been in an authoritative position regarding what’s hot / real / authentic / great.

—

When y’all say “I like Hip Hip but not the modern commercial kind” you tell on yourselves. You want what’s ours, but you don’t want us.

The tables have turned… you’re just behind the curve.

The truth is…
Y’all are salivatin’ and waitin’ for the black man to deliver /
The next form of expression cos we’z the culture life giver /
Ya crossing your fingers and hoping and dreamin’ /
That you can say you were there before it went mainstream.
… Ether…

I’m from Yorkshire, am so white that I’m virtually translucent and I once trained a Kestrel that my brother Jud killed because I didn’t go to the bookies for him. Hardcore rave and Brass Band music don’t get a mention in any of the entries on here so how’s it racist?

This interpretation of racism was invented by Cultural Marxists to contest allegations by White people could be victims of racism. Anyone who understands basic English can understand that this is bullshit. Racism can only be “expressed” when conjoined to power. To infer from this that only white people can be racists necessitates a belief that Whites have power over Blacks at all times and in all situations. In reality a two hundred pound Black man has a power advantage over a one hundred and thirty pound White man in a prison cell, a Black man in an unlit car park has a power advantage over a White woman, a Black man with a gun has an advantage over a White man without a gun on a deserted street. The degree of racism inherent in any race can only be discerned when the race in question are able to give expression to that inherent racism. Zimbabwe might be a useful example.

“Racism is racial prejudice and discrimination supported by institutional power and authority”

No it isn’t. Racism is a belief that there are significant heritable differences between historically isolated human groups. Your conception of racism has been created by Cultural Marxists as a means of ignoring the many obvious examples of non-White racism. Because in White majority nations White people naturally dominate authoritative bodies and institutions, it is convenient for the ideological enemies of European civilization to allege that a negative value (racism) is coterminous with this constant. This silly analysis ignores the fact that there is no relation to the degree of power held by White people in any given political system and the degree of racism extant under that system. Hitler’s Nazi regime was powerful and racist. Stalin’s Communist regime was powerful and not racist. Both regimes were White. It is also untrue that “power” is a non-situational phenomenon manifest only in institutions and authoritative bodies. An unarmed White person in a Black underclass neighbourhood does not have meaningful power over the Black residents. It’s convenient for Black racists and White CM’s to assert this only because it identifies racism uniquely and falsely with White people. You are not very clever.

And maybe many of the people who were most opposed to the Nazis were rabid Marxists who hated American free-market democracy with as much vehemence as they hated Nazism? The fact that Hitler wanted to kill you makes you a good person does it? That Joseph “Gulag” Stalin must have been one hell of a nice chap then!

Therefore I stand by my assertion that Metal and Punk are interpretations of amplified and distorted Blues.

—

RECHILL WROTE: “… the metal/punk tradition is Celtic/Nordic European folk music on steroids. When you add Classical European influence, you get the likes Iron Maiden…”

STAG SAY: In imagery, yes (Viking, Saxon, Anglo, Norse, etc.). But other than the operatic vocal stylings of Bruce Dickinson, Maiden were a straight draw down from Sabbath (ditto for King Diamond). Now, go back to the Paul Dianno days and you’ll see that pre-Dickinson Iron Maiden is really just amplified and distorted blues. I do agree, however, that Iron Maiden is the turning point from Blues towards more native European influences. Such as on “The Rime of the Ancient Mariner”.

Now, European “Black Metal” (e.g., Mayhem, Celtic Frost, Bathory) is an intential quest to abandon the African roots of rock music in search of an aggressive, modern European musical style.

This is demonstrated by their use of European instrumentation (keyboards, violins and folk instruments) and their abandonment of the Verse-chorus song structure with its undeniable links back to the Blues and hence to Africa.

—

RECHILL WROTE: “Old School rap sold to white college kids in the 80’s because it had a high level of excellence in composition and execution.”

STAG SAY: I disagree on the terms that Old School rap did not have a significant foothold with white college kids until the 90s. And it wasn’t for quality, it was for safety. When rap became dangerous, white kids looks to it’s older, less threatening big brother.

JAMES WROTE “To infer from this that only white people can be racists necessitates a belief that Whites have power over Blacks at all times and in all situations. In reality a two hundred pound Black man has a power advantage over a one hundred and thirty pound White man in a prison cell, a Black man in an unlit car park has a power advantage over a White woman, a Black man with a gun has an advantage over a White man without a gun on a deserted street.”

Your examples of Black “power” are singular non-sytemic occurences that while emotive, are ultimately misleading (more on this later).

I agree with your fundmental premise that common cries of racism are often “Bullshit”, that’s really the result of a lack of linguistic sophistication by the accuser.

In American we incorrectly refer to name-calling as “racist”.

NOTE: It’s too bad that your feelings get hurt when people incorrectly call white people “racist”. Similarly, it’s too bad that anyone gets their feelings hurt by name calling.

We incorrectly refer to mistrust as “racist”. E.g., “I don’t like those people, I hear they smell funny.”

That’s not racism. That’s prejudice or, well name-calling, but it’s not “racism”. And I agree that the average white person lacks the power to be racist.

Now, when we get to “I will work to keep them out of my neighborhood” or “I’d never hire one.” we are stepping up to racism. And then when we get to “I just bombed a bunch of them last week”, we’re pretty much at the tippy top of the scale.

That’s the racism that matters.

——

JAMES WROTE: “Zimbabwe might be a useful example.”

Zimbabwe is an example of political comeuppance. The white settlers stole the land and were eventually forced off. Simple. South Africa and Kenya should do the same. Or, like Ghana, simply outlaw foreign ownership.

——

It’s quite telling that you chose criminal examples of Black “power”.

As you likely know, examples of white “power” are significantly more potent.

For example: The creation of all white towns/counties through violent banishments (e.g., Forsyth County, GA and White Settlement, TX),

The forced segregation of cities like Chicago and Boston with the police as the enforcers.

The creation of toxic dumps in areas that have been designated as black/brown areas.

The redlining of loans so that black / brown people are unable to create new financial opportunities in their communities.

Stagolee is right: the original rock bands were just minor variations on the blues with distortion. About 80% of Led Zeppelin songs (my favorite band) can be traced directly to African styles of some kind or another (blues has African roots, not just African-American) including reggae and New Orleans style funk grooves.

You make a valid point James, but the point your making is just as racist as you can get. Racism IS based on power, walk into a bank and try to get a loan, try to catch a cab at night, or walk in a fancy neighborhod as a non-white and see who has power. You can put away your thesaurus, all the big words in the world cant hide your ignorant…no STUPID points. Racism is conjoined to power because if you control system, if your the majority, if you are considered the man, that equals what? son, it equals power.

But, I do have to say that due to the recent turn of events as of late, the tide may be turning for wanna be blowhard nazi rejects like yourself who think your superior because you have a dictionary beside you so you can pretend to be and intellictual. ha, Well ponder upon this, you may be right after all. Now that I think about it. Non-whites no longer need 40 acres and a mule, 50 states and a white house will definitely do.

As far as your examples, if you replaced the big scary black man with a trailer park loser like yourself, a ignorant neo nazi reject, you would still have the same effect. Non whites may seem to have racist tendancies but they arent racist. If someone oppressed you for 400 years, you would be pissed. Thats not racist, thats understandable. And with people like yourself spreading ignorance, you are not helping the cause non at all. I would keep on but I will leave on this happy not, A BLACK MAN IS PRESIDENT NOW, isnt america great. We shall over come will be the next american anthem right next to the Star spangle banner. Now stand up and salute your new commander and chief.

You made your allegation first. Please validate your allegation. I’d like examples of the indigenous African pre-Western forms of these musical genres, and the prototypes of the instruments used in these musical genres. Since I can’t find any evidence of the existence of nascent form Jazz or Blues among the detailed accounts of Stanley, Mungo Park, Livingston, or Richard Francis Burton I wish you good luck!

Crawl back into your cave where you belong with that ignorant talk. Science says that the oldest man was found in Africa meaning while DA REAL SOUL BROTHA #1 was evolving into kings in africa building pyramids and mastering the sciences, angloceltic ….. CAVEMEN were still scratching their ass saying uhga buga. Just about all great non-black groups out there then and now give credit to the blues, black mans blues that is. Ethnic music. I will let you have bluegrass though. lol

Son, if you don’t know that The Blues is drawn from African call & response, field shouts, hand claps and percussion, then you’re probably a great candidate for America’s Next Great Village Idiot. And I say that with love. Love meaning hate in this case. Kinda like how we made “bad” mean “good”.

And if you don’t know that Jazz (which came after Blues) is regarded as the first “Indigenous” form of American music then you’re hopeless (a respectful and somber nod the the Native people of this land. We simply don’t know enough about your music. My apologies.)

Until recently (like the 1980s), white music had always took from Black music, due to racism, and put white faces to black music (ex: Perry Como, etc) . In the 50s, ‘rock and roll’ (which meant in the black vernacular of the 50s, having sex) was a term taken by Allen Freed to introduce black music to white kids who were not exposed to it. Freed was a white DJ who loved black music, and he believed that music should not be segregated, but the white establishment eventually crushed him (payola scandals), and white bread established DJs like Dick Clarke rose up and had white singers sing black music…..

Rock and Roll is nothing more than black rhythm and blues dance music…..

Disco music is nothing more than black rhythm and blues dance music….the word ‘disco’ became a bad word when whites tried to imitate extended dance songs like black artists…and out of the disco era, the white extended songs are more or less forgotten, while extended dance tunes by black artists (Harold Melvin and the Bluenotes, McFadden and Whitehead, GQ, Cameo, Donna Summer, War, etc)..all these artists had songs that went 6-7…up to almost 17 minutes long (Donna Summer ‘Love To Love You Baby’…arguably the first 12′ ever put out in 1975)…..you play these songs today, and people dance to them…..play some BeeGees or the Rolling Stones late 70s tunes and……uh…..good luck getting a bunch of black folk running in droves to the dancefloor!!

Don’t get me wrong….I like their music….but when played in a mix group of blacks and whites, inevitably, most whites groan and say that they don’t like disco…..

Now in my opinion, the 1980’s was the best time to be a DJ and to be ‘into music’……………music was what you described Koubi…whites liberally borrowing from blacks…who borrowed from middle eastern (Eric B. & Rahim Pump Up the Volume)…who borrowed from africa…who borrowed from europe….who all of them for a time borrowed from the caribbean…..Music in the 80s crossed over each other so much that catagories were blurred beyond recognition for awhile……..I was extremely fortunate to be a DJ thruought the 80s….there was no such thing as white or black music, even though radio stations in the 80s tried their hardest to pigeonhole the music….was Debbie Harry a rocker, a reggae singer or a new waver???

The 90s was when the music industry finally got their catagorizing ways back into the music and in my opinion, with the exception of World Music, popular music in general has gone seriously down the drain….there are some gems out in the desert, but you have to look hard for songs that you can actually remember from 10 years ago!….

Stag, don’t forget, no self-respecting white singer would NEVER go on a world tour without the perverbial backup FEMALE BLACK SINGERS!!!……LOL…..

It’s like, in order to ‘legitimate’ that music to the world, american singers HAVE TO HAVE black backup voices….Don’t believe me? Look at any concert that comes on PBS….hell, look at any Rolling Stones concert the last 30 years!!….

Nicole, the problem is not the blog, it is the bigoted people people who write on it (and they are mostly white…and if you don’t believe me, look thru these blogs and read for yourself)…..

While you make some valid points about satire, as a non-white, i am not going to let some bigot, under the guise of ‘satire’ just get away with unsubstantiated bull****.

While all that you wrote is true and valid, unfortunately, the words ‘white people’ brings out the worse in white people….not all of them, but enough of them to take the humor out of whatever the author of this blog hoped to generate.

When it come to race and racism, it is alive and well….just because we have an african american president does not mean that there’s a big shift in race relations…..the country is still 80% white, and until whites change their attitudes, there will be racism.

PS: only 43% of all registered white voters voted for Obama in this election…..which means that 57% voted against him….

Wow. I gotta say. I read this blog because I think it’s good for a nice chuckle here and there, and I’ve only perused the comments a couple of times…but jeez, the hating going on here really blows me away. I mean, this seems like a good place to have a respectful conversation about race, but instead it just looks like cut downs and one ups. C’mon folks, there’s got to be a better way, I mean, what’s the point?

Whites make up 80% of the US population…..whites are in almost all places of power on the state and local level (on the national level, with Obama, this may change)…..The only way that a non-white can be racist in this country is if he believes in the superiority of whites over all other races…….a good example of this is Justice Clarence Thomas…..

hmmm…..like the capacity of white conservatives to not learn from THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES IN 2006….only to be kicked OUT in more numbers in Congress in 2008…..silly conservative….it is funny how you cast off on others while you cannot see the hypocrisy of your words……

Come on, don’t you think that’s a little behind the curve? I know plenty of white people who like commercial hip-hop, and plenty of black people who like the more underground stuff. Then again, you and the white people that this site is making fun of are probably of an older generation than I am, so I guess you see the world differently. I’m just saying though, things are changing. Or maybe the midwest suburb where I grew up is not at all a microcosm of America.

Guy in the chair, why aren’t you saying anything to James? He’s the one who drew first blood with his pompous claims about black music…….Or is it because the brother is giving you more knowledge about the music YOU LIKE…..sort of like, too much chocolate in your white milk……

For a person who thinks its just ‘fuckin music’ you sure are upset by what the man has put down……I guess November has been a bad month for ya, eh??…..first, you have to look forward seeing that ‘black guy’ who happens to be president…every single day for at least 4 years….then you come to ‘music that black people don’t listen to anymore’…..thinking that you’re gonna have nice white to white conversation about black music…..but then your eyes come across some GASP!!…..NON-WHITE PERSON!!….and more GASPS…..he’s dropping some knowledge on you not about only black music, but….GAG & GASP!!!!…..that beloved so-called ‘white music’ (heavy metal, rock, punk, etc)…..Daaamn!!…..is there anywhere a laid off white guy can go without encountering these……..NON-WHITES???

It’s OK Guy……go to #111…pea coats……i think there are only people like you on that blog…..then you can then sit back in your easy chair, sip on your Bud, and wait for your unemployment check without the distraction of guys like Stag to bother you….

Less of a White person!! Haha, just joking!! You can enjoy any music and still be good to your folk! I am 29, White and listen to rap, bluegrass, oldies, rock and White pride music. I expecially enjoy DJ88’s type music!!

Yep! Just like I said, the highest level of musical achievement attained by Africans under their own steam amounted to field calls and hand clapping. Only a totally asinine liberal could believe that the introduction of Black people into a civilization that had a sophisticated repertoire of musical instruments and a fabulously rich, live and vibrant musical culture, was not the major significant factor in the creation of the American musical forms Blacks are falsely credited with authorship of. Even Black Church singing has its origins in the Western Isles of Scotland.

Hey enigma, I hate to break it to you but the pyramids were built by white Egyptians. Sub-Saharan Africans mastered no sciences at all. Perhaps the oldest man was from Africa but those that left the motherland evolved into races with higher IQ’s (on average).

Do you not even care anymore about proof reading? So many mistakes, and yet you only have one post a week? I would love to hear your excuse. If you had more than one post a week I would forgive you, but one post with that many mistakes is sad, so so sad.

Well played, sir. Well played. I agree with you on everything except the assertion that the European scale is a Moorish scale. Arabic music divides the octave into more than 8 notes. There was a Turkish (Ottoman) influence into classical music beginning around the time of Mozart and made for some interesting compositions “ala Turk” which utilized the leading tone to flat 6th melodic gestures. Really impressive stuff, Stag. And no, I’m not laid off from my IT job….yet. ;)

nice….being from europe, and just entering my “old school hip hop” stage just about now…..and being white….nice article
lot’s of truth in it, at least from what i’ve heard from white people in the US of A.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!, i dont have to read a history book to tell you that you are full of it too RECHILL, fly your ass to africa and see for yourself. I will never say there is no such thing as a white egyptian cause then I would sound as stupid as you, but what i am saying is the truth is what it is. Eygpt today is still majority non-white. The sphynx had a soul brotha nose before it was shot off so save me your im the superior race propaganda. And dumb ass, using your own logic, da superior race evolved from big black brothas. haha. unfortuantly, not every one of the black white cousins evolved to have a high IQ. Namely the ignorant racist trailer park offspring from the orignal black man’s seed like yourself who is shame to not have a tan of golden brown. ha ha. I would be bold enough to say than majority of non black people dont believe in the crap you are trying to dish out and they proved it on Nov 4 when they voted a BLACK MAN into office so bow down to your commander and cheif and like it.

The banjo was “upgraded” to European engineering standards by Joel Walker Sweeney. President elect Obama is genetically (using Physical Anthropological terminology) Of Congoid/Caucasoid ancestry. Hip-Hop is not a complete musical art form. it has ALWAYS “sampled” music or shall I say PLAGARIZED from other peoples arrangements, compositions, licks and phrases. Too much political correctness has been payed praising how Definitive a genre it is. Sorry, but the emperor has no clothes on.

I bet you would kiss my ass you HOMO, (no disrespect to the gay people on this site, including this buttwipe into your group is insulting enough) so pucker up. Your language is sorta offensive, was all that necessary? I guess you were trying to refer to me as one of the two jackassess earlier, let me kindly just say to you that i do practice what i preach and you can still kiss my ass. have a wonderful day cupcake.

Why dont you learn how to mind your business, if i want your opinion i will give it to you. And with your superior mind, the only thing you can think of to call me is DUMB ASS, wow, you really put me in my place with that one huh?!!! LOL, I will really think twice about saying something to you, dumbfuckaroo.

Don’t you understand that Christian is describing people like you as being engaged in an act of moronic and pretentious, musical one-upmanship? You have just basically said, “thanks for pointing out what an asshole I am”. I’m sure you must have friends, or even family members that could have done that for you.

James, I see what you’re doing……..LOL……you’re just thowing stuff out to illicit responses…….I was one of those, along with alot of others, who had fallen for this……

but…..your credibility has gone out the window….that last sentence you wrote, “even black church singing has its origins in the western isles of scotland” has shown your true hand….even YOU don’t believe most of the stuff you’re saying!!

Black church singing have ORIGINS in the western isles of scotland??….you REALLY stretched it on this one!

Sorry, but your ‘opposition’ credibility card has just been cancelled!….you had a good run, but it is over…….look on the bright side, you provoked lots of back and forth conversation on the subject….but you just had to go just a little too far……

Now if you want your card back, tell us where did you get your information about the Black church, and how did you connect this information to the origins of the western isles of scotland? Give some specific sources (two or three would suffice).
(Now THIS should be interesting!)

Hustodore, all stagolee is doing is bringing to attention the historical foundation of that music…..it may sound like he’s “behind the curve’ to you because he is talking about WHERE today’s music you listen to ORIGINATED.

Older music tends to sound like, well, old music, when listened to by newer generations like yourself…..but the popular music that you hear today borrow more than ever from that ‘older music’ that stagolee is talking about……

James, I see what you’re doing……..LOL……you’re just thowing stuff out to illicit responses…….I was one of those, along with alot of others, who had fallen for this……

but…..your credibility has gone out the window….that last sentence you wrote, “even black church singing has its origins in the western isles of scotland” has shown your true hand….even YOU don’t believe most of the stuff you’re saying!!

Black church singing have ORIGINS in the western isles of scotland??….you REALLY stretched it on this one!

Sorry, but your ‘opposition’ credibility card has just been cancelled!….you had a good run, but it is over…….look on the bright side, you provoked lots of back and forth conversation on the subject….but you just had to go just a little too far……

Now if you want your card back, tell us where did you get your information about the Black church, and how did you connect this information to the origins of the western isles of scotland? Give some specific sources (two or three would suffice).
(Now THIS should be interesting!)

You have an unfailing ability to strangle yourself with your own sphincter.

“So off went the good (Black) professor – first of all to Benbecula and then to Back on the Island of Lewis. When he heard the Gaelic psalm singing he was blown away. To him it was very similar to the old style of Gospel music in the Black churches back home. He played it to an old Black precentor who wept when he first heard it”

“he was, by his own admission, ugly, but, as Dies continues to recount, not ‘in his form but only in his pock-marked skin and the brownish complexion.’ His complexion was in fact so swarthy that he was once dubbed a ‘Blackamoor’ by his prince at Esterháry. ”

—

Alexander W. Thayer (Beethoven biographer) wrote, “Beethoven had even more of the Moor in his features than his master, ‘Haydn.'”

—

At the very least, we can agree that in your eyes, James, they would not be regarded as “White”.
.
..
…
Was that the sound of your head exploding?

LOUIECOOLGATO WROTE: “play some BeeGees or the Rolling Stones late 70s tunes and……uh…..good luck getting a bunch of black folk running in droves to the dancefloor!!”

And ^^ this, people, is the true test.

What louiecoolgato has done is demonstrate how you measure the influence of one culture over the other.

You put on rock or Country music and white people will start gyrating and throwing up the devil horns.
Put on Ranchero and Mexican people start gyrating.
Put on Karoake and Korean people will pretend they’re gyrating :D
Put on some African American Soul or Hip Hop, or some Jamaican Reggae and EVERYBODY jumps up and starts gyrating.

—

On another note, Louie… Great background history. You clearly love music. Glad to be in your company.

RECHILL WROTE: “There was a Turkish (Ottoman) influence into classical music beginning around the time of Mozart and made for some interesting compositions “ala Turk” which utilized the leading tone to flat 6th melodic gestures.”

90% of ALL music is shit. The appeal of “old-school” anything lies in the fact that only the good 10% is ever allowed into this category. Because 90% of PEOPLE are as thick as shit, with sufficient finance, the public can be convinced, in the short term, that ANY music is good. When promotion ceases music has to survive on its own merits. This music is then given the misleading category of “old-school”, when, in fact, it is just good music. The relevant factor being overlooked in this shallow Cultural Marxist analysis is the exculpatory scalpel of time.

The author makes a foolish blanket assumption that most whites are consumer robots who soak up all black culture without any taste. But not all black music is good. Rap and hip hop is audio poison or mentally ill noise for small lesser minds. With the election of Barack Obama, one hopes blacks will sing happy songs again, not make mad animal zoo cage sounds.

But I think when white people make statements like “I don’t like that. I only listen to old school” they’re hiding the fact that they loved songs “Set a drift down memory bliss” or “Let me clear my throat” but are ashamed to say it outright. The term is used to camouflage how behind they are in the genre, and sound like they listen objectively to non-old school hip hop and dislike it.

I can just hear Lander’s conversation:

“Hey Tom, what are you listening to?”

“Hey Frank. The new XXXX album. It’s really good! Do you like hip hop?”

“(What? Who the hell is that?) Yeah, I like hip hop.”

“Wanna listen?/Want me to burn the CD for you?”

“(Gotta sound like I know what I’m talking about, but not sound uninformed or prejudist) No, that’s ok. I only listen to old school.”

Not mentioned in the entry, but it’s interesting that reggae popular with white people is old stuff, especially songs by a dead man/political singer-songwriter/professional pothead/religious icon. If you have to ask who he is….

aaahhh….therein lies your FOOLISHNESS James….you did not read what i asked you….I stated..

“Tell us where did you get your information about the Black church, and how did you connect this information to the origins of the western isles of scotland?”

You provide information about scotland, but I wanted to know what do you KNOW about the Black Church BEFORE you give me your propoganda about the isles of scotland……Just as you know so much about the isles of scotland music, I know about the Black church….but of course, you can’t say nothing about The Black Church because you are so pressed with your ‘ANGLO creationist of all music’ bull****. Help a brother out and tell us what you know, then i will consider your ‘isle of Scotland’ theory….

Silly wabbit, if you want to play intellectual chess, at least read the directions before you make a move!!

As typical with quasi-eurocentric intellectuals like James, they put this false information out as fact, under the guise of ‘scientific thought’ and think that people would be dazzled with their so called brilliance.

Unfortunately for James, there are non-whites who have studied not only eurocentric history, but history of others who happen to NOT be white.

James, I would suggest that you read some non-white historians and sociologists, because the information you use has passed its time. This is 2008, not 1958 and before.

This blog is satirical, until you get some ‘people’ who take satire for fact and go on intellectual diatribes on things they don’t know about.

satire |ˈsaˌtīr|
noun
the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people’s stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.

When some white people start to use the satire as a basis of fact for to spread falsehoods and inaccuracies about non-whites, their culture, and their music, then what you have is a fight. Those falsehoods and inaccuracies have to be corrected.

I believe this about New Orleans. Is Public Enemy still touring? I saw them live a few years ago, LONG after they’d become irrelevant, and it was sad (I loved them in the 80’s). They were all up on this little stage at this teeny club in SoCal, Chuck D, Flava Flave, Professor Griff, and the S1W’s. It was sad because when the S1W’s did their karate chops they almost knocked over some lights, they were so cramped up there. But man, the white people loved it.

Music is a universal thing, just as people are different, so is their style of music. Ol school music is just as it implys, old music that survived the test of time. There was some god awful “ol school rap” as well as regga, rock, punk, metal, etc…. the list goes on and on. I may have liked metalica but hated dokken. I may like public enemy but loathed two live crew, both groups still had to have something going for them because we all know who they are.

Making music a black or white issue is just a show of how ignorant people can be. I love old music, back when music ment something. The problem with modern music is most artist are doing it for the money. Name the number 1 song from march of 06. Bet you cant because music is so forgetable now. Not all new music is bad, but a big number of it is. Personally, I dont listen to the radio unless im listening to the news. I rather listen to my cds. lol. And i will leave you with this thought, how many cds do you have that you dont have to skip to particular songs. Not many. The ones you dont have to are the ones majority of people deem true classic from AC/DC’s back in black to Dr Dre’s da cronic.

If a white person were making fun of “black people” would that be racist? Because you refer to “white people” in mocking ways in this article….if the coin were flipped, would it be racist? If so, then this is as well.

I am a white woman and my head hurts too much today to try to be bright. I’m not very smart anyway, so be kind. It’s nice to have a voice. Any voice.

I stumbled upon this blog and have been reading some of the posts. Interesting stuff and good study material for me to mull over. I think slow, but I think often. It will happen while I’m loading the dishwasher or driving down the road, though it probably doesn’t happen much if I am also chewing gum.

I like obscure black music so I can be cool? Well, I think I know the people you’re referring to but it’s not me. I could be a stereotype but I’m not. I just like what I like, and I don’t know enough to know why. I just feel it. Some music bores me and other music makes me lift my palms to the sky (and my hips sway). I honestly haven’t thought much about the origins of it all, although the study of it might fun. Running out of time in this buffet of tantalizing questions.

Oh, there was one comment in which the writer disparaged of the musically inept who keeps a beat that only he or she can feel…….oh but what a blessing to feel any beat at all. I remember meeting someone once who said they didn’t like music. Wow. I’m thinking maybe that’s a sign of sociopathology. Or am I forcing the piece into an incorrect opening in the puzzle? (A piece that’s been in my pocket for thirty years or so. No, it’s not bothering me. I can keep holding the piece infinitely.) No problem. However, I do need to pee.

And there’s the writer or writers who want to put it in my face that there’s going to be a black president. Ha. Well who do you think voted him into office? I said to myself it’s this man’s turn to be president, above and beyond the woman’s turn or the brutalized soldier’s. (But not until after I’d read one of Mr. Obama’s books.) We are called upon to discern and make a decision and I did my best. You’re going to take my choice and rub my face with it? Rub my face with something else I love too. Don’t stop until it’s a true facial.

I feel better now. I kneel down to NO ONE, except maybe ONE LOVE. Not the song though. It doesn’t make my hips sway.

Wow. Who knew a white guy making fun of white people would elicit such rage? It’s gotta suck going through life with no sense of humour. This is the first article that was bullet-proof enough to the point where I couldn’t weasel out of admitting that I was THAT white guy. I rail all the time against most current hip hop (eg: Lil’ Wayne) and lament the loss of the golden age of hip hop from the early 90’s. BDP, EPMD, Erik B 7 Rakim, 3rd Bass, Lords of the Underground, Pharcyde…sigh…wait, I’m doing it again…goddammit!!

I will state the evidence is clear that the major contributions of science and technology, civilization building, engineering, liguistics and even the highest examples of the arts etc. have come from the subracial subspeciation of peoples of the Caucasoid racial branch. Of the five racial branches of the Homo sapiens categorised through craniofacial analysis in Physical Anthropology: Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Congoid, Australoid, and Capoid and further subcategorized from each respective branch. (Skin color has little relevance to a complete racial identification. A more detailed classification of man prior to quantized genetic analysis has been through examination the the skull. ) Academicians have argued about which subcategory of the branch has been at the forefront of this creativity. Nevertheless the evidence clearly shows these contributions have come from morphologically Causasoid peoples. Be they the Tocharians(a cultural bearing Caucasoid people to China and Mongolia 3000+years ago) or the ancient evidence of Celtic civilization, Sumerian Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Persian, Hellenic etc. These are simply facts not opinions. You can see the record for yourself.

So the Scots learned how to line out from the African Americans? Since this form of worship existed in Scotland before there were Blacks in America, can you tell which Black genius invented the time machine they used? Your ignorance is almost comical.

What in the hell is the matter with you people (and I mean this across all racial and national lines)?

The intellectual discussions on music here are great! Anyone who read them has walked away knowing more about different people’s ideas. This part of the discussion was worthy of a great college music class.

But, lets lose the racist shit. It’s 2008, the United States has elected a President (who has African American and Hawaiian ancestry) who is a human, nothing more, nothing less. Though hopefully a hell of a lot better than the moron that destroyed the world’s economy, while padding the pockets of his buddies (including those in Saudi Arabia). But, I’m sure he’ll make some mistakes too. No matter what anyone thinks it will not change the face of America. It is the everyday efforts by everyday people who make the great things and the world great. (I happen to be eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich (thank Carver for the peanut butter and the Earl of Sandwich for the idea, while I’m using a computer that was made possible by some guys playing around in their garage. But none of it effects my life anymore than that, I appreciate what some really smart people did. A big thank you for each of their contributions to my day (I would have used musical references from my commute, but I know very little about any of the people I was listening to, I just enjoyed their work and don’t regret buying their music. But someone would have pounced if I said something wrong and the whole message here would be lost (though that will probably happen anyway to those who need to hear it most))). I would love to think he (President Obama) is a Lincoln or a Roosevelt (the country could sure use one right about now, and even more so in January), but to think they did everything on their own is just wrong. The facts are nobody in this discussion had anything to do with the music you’re talking about. Like everything in this world it evolves by each person who plays a part in it. There is not a pure this is where it started unless you go back the first big bang, or God’s hand (depending on which way you think), but it sure as hell wasn’t anyone posting here. The thing that started it all is a funny post and is probably true for some people, just as stereotypes are probably true for some people. But as is evident here, as long as we (and I mean as people) hold on to the black people, white people, asian people… identities, we will continue to give fuel to the people who love to see us fight amongst ourselves. The whole of you, who have made this a my race is better debate, really don’t even belong in the human race. Maybe it time we get over fighting with and killing each other and start to work on fixing what we have. Who really cares what the ancestral origin of person writing or performing a song is, if you enjoy, do just that (they are not going to share their wealth with you just because your skin color is the same and their message doesn’t mean less because their skin color is different). They are all richer than anyone posting on this blog.

The intelligent people in this discussion, please continue to have discussions, I learned a lot. To the racist here go reenact the civil war, but use real bullets and we’ll all win.

I was listening to Run-DMC, Kurtis Blow, and so on when I was junior high age. It was great music, and I loved it.

From there I tried to do jazz – still a teenager mind you – but I just couldn’t wrap my head around it.

The blues I could listen to. Muddy Waters was one of the first albums I bought ever, and was one of the most played. John Lee Hooker of course, and a few other more obscure artists.

Ironically the blues kind of steered me towards Southern rock, and I discovered that there was a gritty spirit shared by the early southern rock scene and the blues. Getting a little older, I found some great bar scenes here and there where you’d have the equivalent of Muddy Waters, and Lynyrd Skynyrd hanging out together.

All of the yuppie trendy stuff was a foreign language to me then, but it just kills me to watch pasty white kids from Scottsdale with the whole urban thing going on. Pull up your pants for crying out loud, and get a normal baseball hat!

James, tell me HOW did you reach this conclusion? Your FALSE assumption is that in order for Blacks to have a certain type of worship, they HAVE TO BE EXPOSED to Scottish worship!

You also assume that blacks in America did not worship before being exposed to scottish worship…….And what is “learned how to line out”??? I’ve never been to any Black worship service that ‘lines out’.

Are you confusing “line dancing” with “Black worship”??….If so, you are exceedingly more ignorant than i thought. Stick with what you think you know and leave subjects that you know nothing about alone. Non-white history is NOT your strong point.

Mike, all you are doing is spewing a myth that skin color actually means something when it comes to civilization and the human race. Your ideas are built on a belief that white skin actually had something to do with humanity and civilization. This is a myth, no matter what gobledygook you write on race.

What do all so-called ‘races’ have in common? We are all homo-sapiens. Humans are all of the SAME SPECIES.

Species: (Webster’s dictionary)- a distinct kind; sort; variety; class; 2) outward form, appearance, mental image. 3) (Biological definition)- a naturally existing population of similar organisms the usually interbreed only among themselves, and are given a unique, latinized, binomial name to distinguish them from all other creatures.

This means that RACE, or skin color, or all of the above stated differences you make mean absolutely nothing in terms of trying to make a hierarchy of intelligence within our species, because skin color has NO CORRELATION TO INTELLIGENCE.

Race and racism was a white concoction to separate humans into a superior/inferior hierarchy, with the justification that white skin is superior to all other shades of skin. The word caucasian was NOT originally used to designate white skin, but rather to designate a LOCATION:

Caucasoid- (adj.) from the erroneous notion that the original home of the hypothetical Indo-Europeans was Caucasus…the Caucasus is a region in Southeast European Russia between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea.

People who try and justify superior intelligence and civilization as the domain of White skinned people, are by definition, RACISTS.

Racism- a doctrine or teaching, without scientific support, that claims to find racial differences in character, intelligence, etc., that asserts the superiority of one race over another, and that seeks to maintain the supposed purity of a race.

Let it go. White people are no more than people who have not yet been darkened by sunlight. We are all the same and your white skin does not reflect anything except, maybe light.

Attitudes based on race is BIAS. Bias does not necessarily mean
that you are racist because bias:

Bias- a mental leaning or inclination, partiality; prejudice; bent; (verb) to cause to have a bias; influence; prejudice.

whereas Racism is:

Racism- a doctrine or teaching, without scientific support, that claims to find racial differences in character, intelligence, etc., that asserts the superiority of one race over another, and that seeks to maintain the supposed purity of a race; any program or practice of racial discrimination, segregation, etc. based on such beliefs.

Everyone is bias in one form or another (bias towards Froot Loops as opposed to Cheerios), whereas with racism, you CHOOSE to become. Racists are not born, they are created.

If you don’t stereotype all black persons with all of what you said, then you are BIAS.

BUT, if you believe all the things you said hold true to all Black people, you are a BIGOT.

Bigotry- the behavior, attitude or beliefs of a bigot; intolerance; prejudice; bigot- a person who holds blindly and intolerantly to a particular creed, opinion, etc; a narrow-minded person

BUT, if you not only believe all those things you said hold true to all Black people, AND that is why you don’t like black people because YOU FEEL SUPERIOR TO ALL BLACK PEOPLE because of their skin color, then you are a RACIST.

Bias is another word for partiality (a liking or dislike for a person, place or thing), which everyone has. When bias is based on skin color, then you go into that realm of bigotry, and the most extreme form of bigotry, which is racism.

Those sights do not bring out the bigots like this sight does. It seems that alot of white people actually BELIEVE the satire they read here, take it to heart as fact, and then take the next step in thinking that ‘white people’ are the ‘end all to be all’ in everything, from civilization, to culture, to music.

Fortunately, these types are not as numerous as they were before the presidential election.

Rechill, if there were white egyptians who built the pyramids, then all the presidents of the United States were at least half black. Oh, you say that this is foolish…..all we have to do is see their portraits and we will see 43 white men!!

Well, how the hell can you say that there were white egyptians when if you looked at any of the paintings within the pyramid walls, all of the depictions were of NON-WHITE people?

And as for your diatribe about Sub-saharan Africa, during the European Middle Ages (The Dark Ages as eurocentric historians love to say), the people of the sub saharan were living MUCH BETTER than your european counterparts. Read up on how Europe was after the fall of Rome…..No Sciences there for a good 500 years……guess who brought the sciences to Europe?

The Moors!….they happen to be Africans and Iberian-Africans. Look it up and educate yourself…

Today is not 4000 years ago. Today the racial makeup of people inhabiting the lands we call Egypt is Arab, not African. In ancient times, the Greeks, Romans and Egyptians were closely related racially. Relax, you’ll always have peanut butter, blues/jazz and great dancing. I never bowed down to any president and certainly not to this empty suit. Obama is brand that was sold to the Amerikan consumer. He’s this year’s IPod. Enjoy. I’m going to go listen to some jazz.

It is naive to say…just listen to music and enjoy, don’t think about who made it….like..who gets the ‘airtime’, the cachet, access to internet, ….look, you people have no idea what it is like to live more than 1km from the nearest mall. We are talking here on this blog about American musicians….as non-Americans we can’t even take part in your so called debates about neutrality. We wait and see if your president will really change all that…if other continents can find a voice that is heard above the loudness, domination and firepower of yours, if this is Africa’s century…for instance

As a sweeping generalization, this is pretty good. But some of us actually do love old jazz. I’m a 52-year-old white guy whose favorite album of all time is Miles Davis, Kind of Blue. I know, I know. I went through several years of jazz-only listening, with a kind of snobbery about popular music, and I was nuts for old Charlie Parker records, Satchmo, Ella, Sissy, etc. Then I really got into free jazz, and would listen for hours at a time to Ornette Coleman, convinced I could understand it if I listened to it enough.

When rap started up, my kids were interested, because their friends were. I actually liked Kool Moe Dee (in small doses), but found everything else they brought home a little dull and repetitive. They outgrew most of it, too. The first rap song that ever made me say, whoah, there’s something interesting going on here, was Eminem’s “Lose Yourself.” And I was knocked out by the intricacy of the writing in “Cleaning Out My Closet.” So my fave rapper is actually white.

But my fave musical artist of the past decade is D’Angelo. I still listen to Voodoo a lot.

And my point? I have none, I guess, except that for me, music isn’t about posing for my friends. It’s about feeling alive. Some music makes you feel alive more than other music does. And for whatever reason, there’s a lot of aliveness in black music–especially the old stuff from before the business crushed so much of the unique attributes of music and homogenized it.

You see this with other types of popular entertainment too–i.e. whites (or maybe more accurately the educated middle class) embracing something once it’s no longer popular with the masses. Think of silent films, Hollywood musicals, even schlocky seventies horror films. It’s easy (if not inaccurate) to make fun of the snobbery behind this phenomenon. On the other hand, it is also good to see someone keeping the best of older forms of entertainment alive too.

Point #1: “…Obama is genetically….of congoid/caucasoid ancestry…” Your argument is based on “genetics equals race differences.”….Well your argument is based on a falsehood because people of all shades are of the HUMAN RACE. All humans are of the same species, and although there are variations within our species, SKIN COLOR IS THE LEAST IMPORTANT. WHITE SKIN DOES NOT EQUAL HIGHER INTELLIGENCE. All that congoloid/caucasiod bull**** you are talking is scientific RACISM, and YOU know it!

Point #2: “..the banjo was ‘upgraded’ to european engineering standards…” …..”Hip-Hop is not a complete music art form…it has always….plagarized from other peoples arrangements ..etc….”

Now let’s just use your words and look at this….Europeans basically made the banjo ‘better’ with European engineering standards…..BUT…..DID NOT GIVE CREDIT TO WHO INVENTED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE…….Isn’t this called…..STEALING??…Oh, but since the european made the original sound better, it is OK for the european to take credit for it…..sounds like the european is a THIEF (which is nothing new to non-white people who study history and culture…. but…. it is so nice of you to justify why whites/europeans steal from non-white cultures.
…. to make the original better….Ok…?)

And as for your diatribe about hip-hop plagiarizing from other music…It is OBVIOUS that you know absolutely NOTHING ABOUT MUSIC IN ANY FORM. What you call ‘plagiarizing’ is what goes on in all forms of music…..This is what make music, music.

plagiarize |ˈplājəˌrīz|
verb [ trans. ]
take (the work or an idea of someone else) and pass it off as one’s own.
• copy from (someone) in such a way.

Hip Hop artists do not create music and take claim for it. On the contrary, they COMBINE different forms of music and make it ‘better’, to take your words. And unlike the European (of your example) who readily steals and do not give credit, Hip Hop artists give credit because…..if you knew anything about the music industry, the people who created the original samples are given credit on the albums, and are PAID for their use….

Point #3: …”sorry, but the emperor has no clothes on..” This is the most correct statement you made….we would appreciate it if you’d kindly put some clothes over your ignorance in certain subjects and leave those out-dated anthropological manuals alone!

Rechill, you cannot change directions so easily and not go unnoticed…..You KNOW that when you said white egyptians, you meant that there were white egyptians 4000 years ago….now in mid stream, you try to laugh it off and say:

‘today is not 4000 years ago. Today the racial makeup of people inhabiting the lands we call Egypt is Arab, not African.’

WRONG. The last time I checked a map, Egypt is STILL on the Continent of Africa. The people may have Arab culture, but they are by definition: AFRICANS. Today there is more mixing of races in Northern Africa, so what you have is NOT white africans (unless you procreate with exclusively white europeans while on the continent of Africa, your offspring WILL NOT be white), but people of color.

By using the standards that racist whites love to use to separate themselves from the ‘lower, darker shades’ of humanity: If you mix with anyone other than people with white skin, then your offspring is NOT WHITE.

You can’t have it both ways Rechill. Unless millions upon millions of white people from Europe came to Africa and refused to procreate with the natives, then by definition, there is no such thing as a WHITE AFRICAN. you may claim to be of the CULTURE OF Europe, but your skin color will give you away.

PS: the Greeks, Romans and The Egyptians were NOT closely related…..BUT…..if we would choose to believe your assumption, then you would concur when I state that Greeks and Romans were of African descent….

And how could i come to this conclusion? Well by using your assumption of all three are related, we could safely conclude that the progenator, or the original, or the OLDEST of the three civilizations were the EGYPTIANS.

Now if the Egyptians were the oldest and had the longest continuation of civilization (over 20 centuries), then we can come to to conclusion (by using your assumption) that this AFRICAN civilization (which had extremely little contact with Europeans over this period), is the beginning of all European civilization (Beginning with the Greeks and continued with Roman Empire).

And of course, you KNOW that Egyptians were Black people, right?….Yea….I think you already know that 4000 years ago there were NO WHITE PEOPLE in Africa….

Rechill, do not use the word RACE ever again in your arguments…..it is painful to read your so called knowledge on the subject.

This has got to be the most irrelevant topic on this page. Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny. And Charlie Parker’s music is not relaxing, it burns with energy and drive. Many of his tunes are played at tempos faster than anything Slayer or Metallica ever did. Being an avid white jazz listener and player myself, i should inform you (the writer) that jazz has always been changing and still continues to do so today. To call modern jazz irrelevant is just silly. Did you (the writer) know that your definition of “relevant jazz” was mostly exclusive to big cities (NYC, LA, New Orleans) and was for the most part the same style (Bebop, Swing, Dixieland)? Nowadays jazz is so diverse and combines so many elements of styles that it sounds nothing like the said “relevant era” of jazz. In fact, it is more relevant than ever. Check out names like Joshua Redman, Brian Blade, Christian McBride, Roy Hargrove, Bela Fleck & The Flecktones, Esperanza Spalding, Dave Holland.

Can I add my own blog that talks about how white people have formulaic views of jazz? Improvisational music really is hard to understand if all you have been accustomed to is the verse-chorus-verse-chorus/hooky lyrics/produced band sound.

Stag, I think that you were overwhelmingly merciful NOT to include how the BRITISH INVASION of the 60s pop music into america was initially based EXCLUSIVELY on Black Blues songs remade by Brits, and amplified going into the 70s (which you covered rather well). The Beatles and the Rolling Stones, along with almost all British groups who came over in the 60s readily acknowledged where their so-called ‘new’ sound came from, but white america said that they don’t care about the roots of the music, just shut up and play. And they did.

American Pop music by its very nature, is derived from African American music and tradition. No one outside of the US really reminisce over Grunge Music of the early 90s, or Industrial (unless some ‘color’ is injected into it…ie: drum rhythm beats, and Hip Hop samples……Hell, no one except the most dedicated to Industrial music/rock would even know the group Skinny Puppy (one of the first, and in my opinion, best example of the genre).

funny stuff… thought provoking… but i thought people liked charlie parker just because he was charilie parker- a on-of-a-kind savoured in time musician. in fact if music is an outward expression of one’s inner emotions… forget about race… just dig that shit. i’d travel the world to understand different music and different emotions but would never bump my head to any corperate music inspired by dollar signs. Dont give a damn how many inner city black kids or country white kids buy it.

but thats just me. a little bit more real white dude than the black dude who thinks he knows me. enjoy your ranting playboy. i’ve got some shiraz and parker to attend to.

I was actually responding to the implication (or maybe outright statement) in stagolee’s post that only black people can ever really know what the next big thing in hip hop is, because I think that attitude is misguided. I will definitely concede that, historically, white people have always been behind the curve in knowing what black music is actually good. But that’s not the case anymore. Hip hop may have had a predominately black audience in its early stages, but it’s become widespread enough at this point that many white people follow it just as closely as do black people. It just seems narrow-minded to write off those white people as mere followers of the trend rather than people who are informed enough about the art form to decide for themselves what’s good and what isn’t.

As for the historical side of the discussion, I’m not really qualified to participate-but I don’t want you to get the impression that I don’t appreciate ‘older music.’ I’m sure I’m not as well-versed in it as you are, but there’s plenty of old music that doesn’t sound the least bit outdated in this day and age.

Do many Americans not read T.S. Eliot? That’s a damn shame. I am American and I haven’t read much T.S. Eliot, but we should pay more attention to our poets. Although he wasn’t techinically our poet in later years, but still…..

They only thing better than the people offended by this site are the people that defend themselves by expounding on how “its so true how someone people pretend to like jazz but others, like myself, truly appreciate it.”
It makes the blog even more relevant.

I believe this has just proven the writer’s point of the “prestige” associated with jazz that about .05% of white people actually understand and the rest pretend to so they look intelligent and cultured.

You mention lots of details about jazz that most of the population doesn’t know or care about unless they’re professional (or wannabe) musicians, teachers, or NPR music critics. This blog is talking about masses of middle or upper-middle class whites who say they like jazz, but don’t understand any of it beyond the stereo-types.

Thanks for fighting the good fight. Thou noblest of deeds hath been to swing thy shining sword in arrest of the comment board creeps, those foul slingers of mud and misconception, those masterful in the art of the intellectual diatribe against whom you and your equally noble companion stagolee have so staunchly defended the masses in such trying times. My hat, nay, all of our hats, go off to you, fine sir, for keeping the commentary clean of all who would’st dare to spread lies and deceit to the multitudes of daily readers of this, the loftiest of social blogs. May the cool cat never die.

Yes but stag, don’t you get it? So much of that demonic death metal is acting, just playing out a role to entertain the fans. That zoo animal stuff simply does not fall into that category. It’s inconceivable that rappers would adopt any sort of stage or musical persona in order to make their music more entertaining. Unless that rapper happens to be Eminem, but he’s white.

Well Matt, I think you may be right in some ways, about these “me think thou dost protest too much” posts, but relative in what ways? I’m relieved I don’t much like jazz.

Do you think it’s of any worth for people to “see” themselves in the mirror of other people’s words? “OMG, is that ME?!!!” I guess I think it’s a worthy thing, but hopefully not in a way that gloats (or feels embarassed when it is ME). Is it relevant to be able to “peg” someone with no future development to the story?

Here I am on Christian’s blog, about to call him pompous and self-serving……. on HIS blog. In his own home so to speak. He’s making a buck off this fluffy dead-ended stuff he writes. But wait, I can see his redemption. If he can make at least a few people question themselves…….. “Who am I? Am I who I think I am?” Christian doesn’t seem to want to break things down further…..or does he? I don’t know Christian at all.

Shall the darts be thrown at me for trying to think analytically about it? Do I fit into the stereotype of the self help junkie? Is there a corresponding TWPL number to go with this category?

As a Folklore and Ethnomusicology student at Indiana University Bloomington, you truly hit the nail on the head.
– The Lomax’s are my heroes
– I’m studying the blues, particularly ragtime
– I want to work at Smithsonian Folkways Recordings

What the F?
A: I don’t give a shit about who is in the Oval Office — has nothing to do with what kind of music I like.
B: I’m not reading every single entry to follow the arguments between a couple of dickhead music snobs.
C: I’m not the least bit upset by the arguments arising between aforementioned dickheads with waaaay too much time on their hands.
D: I don’t think about skin color when I listen to music.
E: Only teenagers should use ‘LOL’
F: F you, you fuckin loser.
Have a nice day.

Hey guy in chair,
1. It looks to me like you do care who is in the oval office, daddys little girl mad because there is a smart AFRICAN AMERICAN man in the BLACK, ooops, white house. Also, your mad because you cant join in the convo because your dumb ass dont know jack about music.

2.Your not reading all the entries because they are writen above a third grade level so your little mind cant comprehend.

3. You must have too much time on your hands also because you put your ignorant two sense into it, but I guess that makes you the PUSSY because you can respond intelligently to any of the remarks.

4. The only smart thing you said, music is universal, my bad, its for all people.

5. LOL means laugh out loud or laugh on line, just to let you know sense you must not have known that. Three universally known letters is alot easier and quicker to write than a whole phrase. Atleast for intelligent people so I guess i understand your complaint.

6. F you you fuckin losers, WOW, spoken like a true scholar. Did it take you twenty minutes to think of that profound thought. Im impressed. Pretty soon you will move up to saying See spot run.

7. Keep your dumb ass on your chair and shut the hell up. If you dont have nothing smart to say, keep it to yourself.

.Your not reading all the entries because they are writen above a third grade level so your little mind cant comprehend

Hmm. Let’s see.
You misspelled “written,” and the proper contraction is “you’re” not “your.”
You are a major league retardo, enegro.
Who has the 3rd grade reading level?
Seriously, my brutha, I could give 2 shits about whichever fuckwad occupies the OO, whether it’s Dubya or Black Obama or Jackie Chan.
It’s shitbags like you that make blogs like this utterly humorless. Do you understand sarcasm — when it’s not directed toward your tiny penis?
I know what LOL means, you fag, and guess what?
It’s a cliche for teenagers. Congrats.
And I never said music is universal. I said I don’t think about skin color when I listen to music.
Having traveled all over the world, I’ve found good and bad music on several continents. Music is either enjoyable or it sucks, and only douchebags like you worry so much about color, probably because you’re actually scared of white people. I guess as a child some white kids poked fun of the pubic hair on your head and you got mad.
So now you respond as such.
So sad.
And why the fuck is an angry black boy like you reading a blog for white yuppies?
You must have serious identity issues or you must be seriously bored/lonely.
Later enema. Peace out homie.

WOW, I got put in check by the stupidior race, now you speak. Thanks for letting me know that I made a few errors in my humble lil blog, but it lets me know that not only did you read what I wrote, but that it hit a nerve also. Now dont you feel better about yourself, I probably made more mistakes than what you have pointed out but who cares because in the end, you still look like the asshole that you are. Yes, after I put you in your place, you couldnt help but to think about my penis, sorry, I only do females. I dont play wit “BOYS”, boy. So SON, leave that gay talk to your lil homo friends you hang out with. Hey…. I remember you. Your old name use to be “boy under the desk”. Looks to me like your steppin up your game huh?

You do know that excessive use of profane words shows a lack of intelligence, hence, your blog. It is a case in point of how dumb ass red necks who failed second grade three times think. Its a dark place in that big empty place between your ears so Im going to cram this in there.

Nope, I wasnt picked on as a kid, I got along with people, black, white and everyone in between. No one picked on my head of hair, thats your memory, not mine. I gave your ignorant behind the benifit of the doubt when I said you made one smart comment, and instead of taking a underserved compliment, your dumbass is going to let the world know that you are to small minded to even make a comment like that. “I didnt say I said music was univeral, I said I dont think”. ENOUGH SAID, you got that part right cupcake. Your dumb butt didnt think when you decided to put your two cents (happy) in a conversation between grown folks.

I guess the third grade reading level was abit to advanced for you, let me downgrade you to kindergardin. Actually preschool. Im sure you took that class several times too. You did ask a interesting question though, Why is an angry boy like me reading a white yuppy blog? Because i can, and because I understand what is being said. My question to you is why is a poor white trash kkk reject like yourself doing on this site. Shouldnt you be on trailer trash .com or something of that nature. You would fit right on in BOY. Now you look SON, you mind your manners and respect authority. Watch your tongue when grown folks r talkin. Dont make a bigger ass out yourself than you already have already. Got that BOY. Now shut the hell up and beat it, your dismissed.

But the bottom line is the best hip hop that I jive with is ol’ school…know what I’m sayin…fool.
The new stuff is micro managed by pimps that prostitute the client that they signed to work with various professionals.
You can discriminate between organic rap and synthetic.
So…whites don’t take offense at his content but take pride in it

Guy, you commented on Stag’s post…..it seemed to you that ‘he had too much time on his hands’ in explaining the history of Jazz in particular, and overall music in general….i merely pointed out that you should keep your mouth shut if you don’t like to read about knowledge……what he explained to Rechill, what you call ‘fuckin music’, was an educational dialogue……UNTIL you put your two cents comments in it!!

And judging by your comment, and what you call yourself, “Guy in the Chair” one can imagine you doing what i described…afterall, only a dumbass sitting in a chair commenting on things he does not know about, or worse, does NOT WANT to know about, would make IGNORANT COMMENTS on credible information…..let us look at your statement;

‘sweet double dribbling Jesus you have way too much time on your hands.
I guess getting laid off from your IT gig sucks, eh?
It’s just fuckin music.’

Yup, you are all that i said about you AND MORE…not only are you IGNORANT, YOU ARE STUPID also…..Tell us what do you know about music??….that you love to listen to it?….well that is just great…..why don’t you SHUT YOUR MOUTH and keep listening?…..If your mind cannot grasp the adult conversation about the inner workings of music in general son, it would behoove you to KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT so that no one would not have to point out your deficiencies……You left yourself open, you got smacked, take it like a man and move on……

this singer grand father is from north africa, which is LOCATED in AFRICA … ha ha ha !!

Juliette Noureddine, better known by her stage name of Juliette, is a French singer, songwriter and composer.

She was born on September 25, 1962 in the 17th District of Paris. Her grandfather, of kabyle origin, arrived in France during the 1920s. Her father, Jacques Noureddine, played the saxophone. Juliette began to learn to play the piano at the young age of seven. Her first teacher was an old woman who used Debussyto teach the young girl. Juliette quickly bored of this music. Her old teacher was replaced by a much younger one who used music by Elton John to teach the young prodigy. Juliette had her beginnings in Toulouse; after spending her teenage years in a religious institute, and after passing through the faculties of Literature and Musicology, she started playing in bars and restaurants throughout Toulouse as a pianist, performing songs by Jacques Brel and Édith Piaf. It was around the age of 18 that Juliette began to write and sing. Her first song was entitled “This evening I’m sleeping with Chopin.” One evening, Juliette sings a song accompanied by the piano in a bar in Toulouse. The boss quickly hires her, and she sings there every evening for a year and a half.

In 1985, and in 1986, she was present at the festival Découvertes du Printemps in Bourges, a festival that features promising young talents. After a tour in Germany, she played the opening act for Jean Guidoni in 1990. It was at this time that she had a meeting with Pierre Philippe. She received the grand prix de la chanson française at Sarrebruck.

In 1991 she published her first album, “Que Tal?”. She received a nomination for the award of “Victories of Music” (“Victoires de la Musique”) in 1994, and received the prize of “revelation of the year” at the same awards in 1997.

After her fifth album, “Assassins sans couteaux” (Assassins without knives) in 1998. She appeared at l’Olympia for the first time in 1999 for six days, and again for two days in 2005.

Her current artistic merits includes seven albums and the medal of Chevalier des Arts et Lettres. Juliette is one of the most original and important voices of today’s french music.

She hosts a radio show at the France Musique station, called “Juliette” or “La clef des sons”. Every Sunday, she presents a selection of eclectic and diverse music, from pop to classical, according to her mood.

Of course you like anal sex.
No surprise there. Guess you’re one of those “down low” brothers? Hey — when you drink a lot of brandy and King Cobra after you leave the club, a hole is a hole, right?
Fortunately it ensures stupid negros like you will not reproduce.
Gotta love the irony: The only thing your race does well — besides park cars at state fairs and football games — is reproduce, and you can’t even do that.
Classic.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to the trailer park to whip up some meth and fuck my cousin, and then it’s off to the swamp to shoot some gators.
I love how you refer to me as the “stupidior” race.
Genius.
Isn’t that the pot calling the kettle…..nevermind.
See you at the next Mensa meeting, holmes.
Fo sho.

So…..”oh god”……..what is a “half formed pseudo profundity” in this case? Is it otherwise sometimes called a query of questionable merit? Are they only able to be half-formed in the environ of one’s ass? Are they fully formed outside of one’s ass? Can there be a cross-over of the two? (a half formed both inside and outside) (a fully formed both outside and inside).

Try to be a little more clear with the whys of your wishes. It’s really not enough to say “pull your head out of your ass”. It’s so vague.

You’d like me to stop talking and you yourself don’t want to talk other than to say pull my head out. That leaves me reading Christian’s writings……. Shall I go buy the book also? Please let me know. I don’t want to assume anything. Talk loud so I can hear you. Things are a bit muffled.

I have a theory. Check the radio that is still blaring while the car is a crumpled mess and strobe lights are circling. That is the music the driver really listens to. Mine (an old white lady) would be jazz nine times out of ten. Gotta watch pouring that glass of wine while driving.

I enjoy your antropol0gical work on White People. It is always entertaining even when off the mark.

So what, by overanalyzing my statement (which meaning of you most likely heard loud and clear), you’re hoping to overpower me with your intellect? Well, I think it worked. Or perhaps you’re teaching me a lesson in clarity? Point taken, I’ll admit that I used nineteen words (unless pseudo-profundities is one word, in which case eighteen) where two (“shut up,” just to be clear) would have done just as well. But if that’s the case, you’re guilty of the same crime-you would have probably been better off with a simple “say what you mean,” or maybe a “put up or shut up.” I sense that you’re also trying to defend yourself by turning my “pseudo-profundities” into your “query of questionable merit,” but that doesn’t come across too well because all you’re really doing is asking me questions that I can’t answer.

Put simply, I think you’re trying too hard to say something of meaning without realizing that your meaning gets lost in the attempt.

Oh I just thought of something, wouldn’t it be funny if I wasn’t the same ‘Oh God’ as the one who posted last night? Or what if I decided to post a response to this as Opalintj and then carried on an argument with myself? I would get a kick out of that. Or if the two posts by Opalintj were by two different people, the second merely someone who wanted to defend the first from an unfair attack? I would have just wasted a whole bunch of time explainng myself. Thanks a lot, jerk.

Welcome back, your giving yourself alil too much credit dont ya think. I know you do meth but you dont hold the mental capibility to make the stuff. It involves science and brain power something that you dont have. I see your a glutton for punishment huh, you had to go straight to the dumb mans ace card huh, ignorant racial slurs. I bet your soo jealous of those big black negros for their ability to actually be able to attract a female mate so that procreation can happen. Unfortunately for you, the only offspring that will come from the palm of your hand will be “sticky fingers”. LOL, you are a total loser. Ha Ha Ha. It must really get your goat to know that you just keep getting your ass handed to you by a BROTHA, its ok, your not the first bigot asshole i had to put in place and you wont be the last. It must also piss you off that everytime you look at a woman of any ethnicity, she may have been done by a big black brotha. Basically, its none of your beeze wax what my favorite position is, Im not going to give you something to fantisize about tonight in your lonely pathetic chair, but atleast i dont have CHIN NUTS, Oh, in other words. A big dick in your mouth!!!!!!!

Since you had trouble comprehending LOL, I certainly should have known better than to expect you to get “stupidior”. I just joined stupid (which is you) and superior (which your not) together and tada, there you go. You say ” we are good for is parking cars…..” well at least we own cars unlike losers like you who use your feet all day. You must not have a life, where can you find the time to worry about what black folks are doing anyways. Come on,,, you can tell me. Secretly , you want to be a nigga dont ya. Good looks, big dick, screwing white women, driving cadillacs , eating fried chicken and watermelon. You can only dream of it. NOPE, all you got is your busted up chair and a hate for blacks. Its ok, you will be alright. Take your ass back to the trailer, along with your right hand girl friend and deal with it. Oh Yeah, incase you didnt get the memo, there is a black man in the white house. I know you just love that dont you. Now BOY, mind your manners and stay in your place. Dont make me have to tell you again SON.

Unfortunately Jennifer, your obsessions are NOT prominent among the majority of white persons…..I am quite surprised that a person from Indiana (the birthplace of the KKK), would be interested in ethnomusicology……I am surprised but pleased…

I live in DC and I visit the Smithsonian often….I also have tons of CDs produced by the Smithsonian Folkways Recordings….If you stick with your studies, you will find out how diverse american music is, and you will also find out how much history has been hidden and ignored when it comes to the origins of a lot of musica americana……Race and socio-economic conditions play a major part in this hidden history (from african american bluesmen (and women!) to the music of the Appalachian Mountains)

You have a good start with your particular curiosity for ragtime…. hopefully, this will begin a long love affair with MUSIC in general for you…starting with ‘american’ music…and expanding out to World music…..

Boy under the desk, I see your still up to your shinanigans again. Trying to make yourself feel better about yourself talking about black people. Havent you learned your lesson yet SON, its not nice to talk about people. Just because you see one of your lil insignifigant buddies talk stupidity dont mean i gave you permission too. Lets think what poor white trash like you and fuck you like;
1. screwing first cousins. got to keep it in da family huh
2. picking on other people because you dont have anything going for yourself.
3. not working either, you must be mad that a black man is qualified than you. I heard about the janitor job you applied for but didnt get because you were not qualified.
4. welfare, dont get it twisted now. minorities are not the only ones utilizing the system.
5. sheep, you better leave them alone, your right hand is starting to get jealous.
6. crime, thats universal. unfortunately, there are some dumb black folks in jail just like there are some dumb white folks too. Screw them all. And for the record, you will be back in soon to reunit with your boyfriend.
I like our little list we made. As for your crackhead buddy, he is right. blacks do like crack, so that it can be sold to poor white trash like yourselves who have no life.
Well kids, whats the lesson today, if you do drugs, you will call yourself FUCK YOU, a name of champions im sure, I bet his two dads proud of him, and you will be a lonely bigot asshole like boy under the desk. Meth kills too, right b.u. d, we discussed that earlier. Well ladies, im done with you two. I have better things to do with my time like rearranging my sock drawer. Its more mentally stimulating.
now,

The jazz part of this article is pretty off. It’s wrong and borderline offensive to say that white people have been keeping jazz on life support for a long time. Making a statement like that completely ignores and disrespects Joshua Redman, Christian McBride and other black jazz giants of the modern era. Anyway, that part of the article was one of the few more ignorant and off base posts on what is a generally awesome website.

I may not always agree or disagree with what is said in this blog but I think it’s enternaining as hell!! I live in Naples, Florida (I’m from Dayton, Ohio) and I see a lot of the things discussed in this blog. Funny as hell!!

I love that only the superior-level white people have the mastery of white-irony (where you pretend to criticise white people to negotiate your guilt and confusion about your own identity)

the one’s that miss it are hilarious, but not the main game. I love the one’s who get it most like me. (check my fixed-gear bike, organic vegetable coop, obama-supporting, hip-hop ‘digging’, italian speaking, gradschool attending, white arse if you want to know…)

good work to all concerned.

The fella who put this thing together is, of course, the whitest of the white, because he turns this white-irony into cash-money (buy the book folks, give it to your white friends), and ’street cred’.

some of u are legible.
but there are too many psuedo intellectuals among you including the blacks that read and post pretentious commentary.
fucking annoying.
yes, rap is poetry with a groove.
yes, whites high up on the evolutionary scale do their grocery shopping where the stuff is highest quality because they need air to breath and food as sustenance.
Yes they wear cardigans because the latter are easy on the eye…
beatches

When I was in the ATL my ignorance of this rapper called ‘Nas’ induced some ridicule from these black girls. I tried to defuse their scorn by mentioning that I enjoyed rap music cause I listened to a station called 95.5. They laughed even more….

I don’t really think that radio station was so different from their “black” one except that they had white DJs, but essentially, they played the same stuff…..

I love how black people are “the blacks” and yet white people are “whites”. Why shouldn’t black people be entitled to post pretentious commentary? Why the incredulity? Are you upset that black people are capable of writing more intelligent and substantial comments than yourself, ‘white pride’.

There are many genres in every community regardless of color.
There are those in the black community that attempt to mold themselves into whitey.
This is probably true of those who visit this satirical site and post serious responses ala psuewedo intellectual idiots…with spotless grammer but otherwise humdrum response

This comment almost makes a valid point but I remember listening to an interview Lander did on NPR. He had said he made this site to poke fun at stereotypes. I like that. Stereotypical notions are alive in every culture and subculture. Since the world is obsessed with the false notion of ‘race’ and stereotypes, this site does well.

To the person who mentioned the Jamaican comment earlier, that reminded me something from the weekend: white fratboys that love to sing Bob Marley, most notably “No Woman, No Cry.” Whenever I hear a fratboy sing that song, I ask them if they have a clue about what it means. I have yet to receive a coherent answer.

On a side note to my fellow whities, it’s fine if you like listening to black music, but don’t think you’re cool because you do it.

most black people love rock and roll, white man music! some are straight up about it others are closet listners! I guess rapping about botty and bling gets to be old even to real black people! go figure!!

Rereading some of these posts……. Wow, when I took a glance more than a few days ago, it wasn’t so bad……..and now this crazy stuff. Shame on both of you bad (shut your mouths). Spiralling down into the pits. I might be more angry at the guy in the chair because he is fairly evil, but enigma is getting pretty ugly too. I do think it’s the right thing to insert a strong objection to this guy in a chair’s hideous racism but I don’t think I’m going to let enigma’s disgusting behavior slide either. Aw, geesh, what ugliness.

I guess it’s intense here because music is so personal and yet it gets sold to just ANYONE with money for the jukebox. Hell, I don’t know.

I want to say “black music” is my music too, because it was playing out the radio when I was a teenager cruising at the mall young and so alive and innocent……… but maybe not everyone thinks I deserve such a fine thing. I know a good thing when I hear it no matter what continent or culture it comes from. But maybe someones think I have taken too much of the stuff that floats to the top. Maybe someone wants to shut me outside while they dance inside.

It might have been my fiftieth I’m thinking….a few years ago celebrating my birthday with the free birthday dessert at one of the chain restaurants that don’t suck so much……..had a handsome black waiter, probably a college student. He asked me what I was going to do next to celebrate and I told him I might go out dancing so I could shake it like a polaroid picture. I said it prim and proper like I usually talk. He sure did a step back and double take, laughed and asked if I had a younger woman hiding inside me.

Well yes I do. I have decades worth of music in me too. When I was a child I wore my father’s records out. I waltzed with the broom and the blue danube. Polkaed with I don’t want her you can have her, she’s too fat for me. Old man river, he just keeps rollin. (sang it hanging upside down in a tree looking at the creek) After the ball is over……..after the break of day (dawn?)……. Big rock candy mountains. And I keep hearing something a lot in my memory like a xylophone………I see the black man on the album cover but I can’t remember his name. I think it was forties music but I don’t know what it’s called.

And I remember my old man and me sitting on a roof, shingling it together when I was a teenager…….and he’s singing “Will it go round in circles? Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky?” My life was (is) always accompanied with music……like a movie soundtrack.

Well you want to make sure I give credit to the black or african influences of whatever music I’m listening to and don’t just take it with no gratitude? Don’t you worry. Not everyone is as careless as the white people Christian writes of.

Did Germans bring the accordian to the Mexicans? It sure sounds like maybe they did……… How much did the French influence Vietnamese cooking?

I like music that nobody listens to anymore. But then too……..who is this Timbalake fellow that Chris Cornell is teaming up with? I wonder about the new direction……..I’ll always have the old CC……..and what will the new be like? WORTH WAITING FOR I am hoping.

Having never been as desperate as you to suck up to Black people by displaying how much I empathize with them, I’ve no idea what the song is about. I’ve always assumed that it was a song about someone parted from his beloved in some kind of prison. In which case it clearly falls within the subject range of traditional European folk music. I enjoy it at that level. I have no need to look for an understanding that can be utilized to bolster my “right on” credentials. Good luck with your credibility quest though!

Wow! Yet another musical genre that only White people listen to. Only White people listen to Blues, Jazz, Classic Hip Hop, Funk, Heavy Rock, Synth, Folk and classical music. Where does that leave Black people? What Lander and his legion of “me too” comment posters are really saying is that Black people only listen to commercial music of the moment. That Black people listen to music without discernment or taste and are the dupes of the corporate promotion machine. Any intelligent Black person should be insulted by this blog.

Actually, very few Blues songs from Son House to Jimi Hendrix centre around racial discrimintation, they are mostly about women….

I love Blues, Reggae and Soul and R&B, any non-metal related rock-band revolves around those types of music. Jazz however is music without soul, and never went anywhere besides newer forms of Jazz itself. I hate it when people put Blues and Jazz in the same boat, it’s like how the term classic rock encompases both Black Sabboth and The Mama’s and Papa’s, and God forbid Eric Clapton and ughh… Def Leopard.

I’m confused by this post. Is it saying that we should let music die? Some white people like hip hop and some black people like indie rock. Should they throw their albums away and go back to fitting comfortably within the stereotypes? I do agree that “old school” hip hop is better because it’s actually relevant to the world. New hip hop talks about expensive cars and hot women and what all your money gets you. Who can relate to that? What’s the point?

Why does something have to “fall in the range of traditional European folk music” for you to like it? Why can’t you take something outside of your White-centric viewpoint as valid as it is rather than equating it to something that makes sense to you? A white person who listens to Bob Marley is not “sucking up to black people to show how much they empathize with them.” Maybe to colorblind racists it is, and maybe you should get your intentions checked out. Also, why are your “credentials” more important to you than anti-racist compassion?

I will say that my tone did come off alil harsh, BUT necessay due to the ignorant tone of M.I.C. I enjoy all types of music and music to me has no color. Thank you for sharing your memories opalintj and dont let our lil spat take away from your love of music. I will strive to be a more kinder and caring enigma, atleast till provoked. Thats the best I can promise you. :)

Its all well and good to judge something as being of another culture but isn’t it better that we stop judging things that way? I get it. It’s funny. And pretty true (which is scary) but at least white people have overcome their attitudes to accept and even enjoy some part of a different culture. I recently got to see Cadillac Records (comes out Dec. 5) at press screening. It’s about the rise of blues in 1950’s Chicago. Despite a star-studded cast (including Mos Def, who white people apparently love) and amazing shiny Caddy’s, the movie shows what can be accomplished by people when they embrace different cultures instead of reject them merely on the basis of being different.

PS-White people would love this soundtrack, action packed with old school blues like Muddy Waters, Chuck Berry, and Etta James.

“Why does something have to “fall in the range of traditional European folk music” for you to like it?”

It doesn’t have to, but it’s more likely to appeal to me when I can reference it to something I am familiar with. That’s called the availability heuristic. I am taking issue with the claim that I have to understand it from the point of view of a Black man. I’m not and I don’t and i don’t care. It’s a good song.

“A white person who listens to Bob Marley is not “sucking up to black people to show how much they empathize with them.”

No, but a white person who posts a comment denigrating other white people for failing to understand the song from a Black man’s point of view is, which is what I said thicko.

“Also, why are your “credentials” more important to you than anti-racist compassion”

Wow, what a stupid thing to say. I am a 52 year old white guy that has listened to and loved rap and hip-hop since its inception, going back to Sugar Hill Gang when it first came out. Before that, I enjoyed Kool and the Gang, Ohio Players, Parliament Funkadelic, De La Soul, Barry White, and all sorts of so-called “black music.” I also like classic rock and bluegrass. I’m a diverse person who loves music.

I think it’s very racist to believe that when people say they are really into something that they aren’t being genuine.

Don’t hold your breath, whatever you do ! The legions of people of all colours wearing everything imaginable by way of clothing, who threaten nightly to make the roof fall in with their screaming, whistling, roaring approval of that they have just heard…………..that’s a Nigel Kennedy performance.

Don’t hold your breath, whatever you do ! The legions of people of all colours wearing everything imaginable by way of clothing, who threaten nightly to make the roof fall in with their screaming, whistling, roaring approval of that they have just heard…………..that’s a Nigel Kennedy performance.

Well, as a black person, I laughed out loud at this one (forwarded to me by a white person who completely identified with the post). And by the looks of the ruffled-feather comments, I think you may just have hit a nerve.

Stuff black people like: the “stuff white people like” blog. You nailed it.

Well, as a black person, I laughed out loud at this one (forwarded to me by a white person who completely identified with the post). And by the looks of the ruffled-feather comments, I think you may just have hit a nerve.

Stuff black people like: the “stuff white people like” blog. You nailed it.

Can not express how I’ve come to grow weary of all that “Real” shit. Every. Single. Time. I mean, like do they realize how arrogant and close-minded that is? Prolly doing it purpose, can’t be helped. Thanks 4 that last part. Man, lotta people don’t realize it, but where would hip-hop be w/o Rick Rubin?

im glad we all cling to something whether it be old or not. white poeple are their strongest when they forget what they are told. black poeple the same. we are all strong when we forget all the bullshit i mean “can’t we all just get along!!!” is just another euphanism that has been shattered. the real problem is “deep within…” we are clinging to alot of bad shit we need to let go. i guess we are all living in the past.

The real reason people listen to classic hiphop is much simpler: Some of us never progress beyond the music we listened to in high school or when we last felt young. I’ve met grown men who still worship Jesus & Mary Chain for the exact same reason.

How many ways can you be colorblind?
You don’t have to understand the song “from the perspective of a black man” to read the lyrics. You are reifing racial hierarchies by claiming that the only way you can relate to a song is by approximating it to Eurocentric values.

The guy you responded to was critiquing people who appropriate reggae because they’re rich white stoners who don’t know a damn thing about what post-colonial Jamaica except for their family vacation resorts there. Which is valid.
Clearly he’s got some fucked up shit going on with that kind of language, but you should check your privilege as well, friend.

Have you, or have you just read a review written by some home counties private school girl playing at being a journalist? In the context of a classical music concert, “wearing everything imaginable by way of clothing”, means a few students dressed in a pastiche of evening dress culled from thrift shops and perhaps an exuberant pair of cords. Have you seen a disproportionate number of Black people at a Nigel Kennedy performance, or any classical, operatic, folk or medieval music performance for that mater?

Have you, or have you just read a review written by some home counties private school girl playing at being a journalist? In the context of a classical music concert, “wearing everything imaginable by way of clothing”, means a few students dressed in a pastiche of evening dress culled from thrift shops and perhaps an exuberant pair of cords. Have you seen a disproportionate number of Black people at a Nigel Kennedy performance, or any classical, operatic, folk or medieval music performance for that mater?

“Historically speaking, the music that white people have kept on life support for the longest period of time is Jazz”

Funny! I just saw a Mozart performance on Sky Arts and was recently listening to Canteloube on BBC Radio. Apparently “Jazz” predates these two genres, or is Lander just a jackass who has found a niche market among pseudo-intellectuals?

White people are guilty of the same crime in the field of literature, preserving dinosaurs like Shakespeare and Dostoevsky.

I am not claiming that the ONLY way I can relate to this song is “approximating it to Eurocentric values”, I’m saying that this is the way that I CHOOSE to relate to it because it is more convenient for me to do so. Why do you insist that Europeans cannot be allowed to appreciate music within the frame of their own cultural reference points? Is that an example of your famous “tolerance” and “diversity”?

“The guy you responded to was critiquing people who appropriate reggae because they’re rich white stoners”

Nice theory, unfortunately there is zero evidence to support the notion that the majority of White people who like Marley are rich, or stoners. The only thing you are demonstrating is your class prejudice.

You can’t understand Reggae unless you are an underclass Jamaican, so presumably you can’t appreciate Hamlet unless you are a Dane of royal blood?

Thanks for taking the time out from your busy, important life to set me str8. Yes, upon re-reading your post I see the truth and wisdom in your screed that only the truly enlightend can behold. And as a token of my gratitude when ever I pass you or one of your ilk on the street I’ll drop a little extra change in your cup.

Steve, the more correct word is ‘bigoted’, not ‘racist’…..at least in the case you are describing….

And I agree with you……no one can tell you what you like and dislike because….they are not YOU…..good points…

PS: Only white people call the music you like (Parliament, Barry White, Ohio Players, etc) BLACK MUSIC……..I know that if you’d ask any black person what they’d call this music, they WOULD NEVER say black music, but rather……DAMNED GOOD DANCE MUSIC…….

The answer to your first question is no. Then next you weren’t writing “in the context of a classical music concert,” were you ? You were writing in the context of “a Nigel Kennedy performance.” I have attended many of these and noticed many styles of dress, including that of the principal performer himself, which could never by any stretch of the imagination qualify as “sober.” As for seeing a disproportionate number of black people…………….disproportionate to what ? I don’t see a disproportionate(?) number of black people at Nigel Kennedy’s jazz concerts either. Sorry, James………I really don’t know what you mean by “disproportionate.” The word resonates with inverted racism to me, I’m afraid.
And I still can’t imagine applying the phrase “politely applauding” to the deep-noted roar of approval that escalated into shouts, whistles, and frenzied clapping,which greeted Nigel Kennedy’s performance of Beethoven in Frankfurt last May.

I’m not sure I like this website. It’s the first time I’ve visited – and I’m all too aware [from the blog title alone] that it’s meant to be controversial.. but honestly. Saying black people aren’t into jazz and blues… really? I mean, how many black people do you know? Do you know more black people than white? Does it matter? Culturally, races are mixing now – there is less of a big deal about what is ‘black’ and what is ‘white’ music. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not discounting the source of these genres, but if you knew anything about jazz in particular, you’d know that from the pretty early on (20’s/30’s) it was a mixed-race affair (both musicians and fans).

It just hacks me off to think that after all this time, some people still think that generalising is a productive activity. Sure, not all black people like jazz… but neither do white people. Sure, not all black people like the blues either, but I’ll be damned if I meet one new black or white person today that knows who Son House or Muddy Waters is. The point is, all genres of music have different fans from all different races and generations. Take me for example. I’m half British, half Thai, born in the 80’s. I like blues, jazz, psych, rock, 60’s garage.. all sorts of shit. Even though I’m half white, I still don’t understand this blog. It doesn’t make sense to me. If I were to show it to my African or West Indian friends, they would be just as confused as me with all your pigeon-holing.

The problem with all the farts posting is that they either dont have a sense of humor (an essential trait of all whites) and are followers not leaders.
they listen to what they do because one who does not follow and does not lead does so while thumping the nose at so called authority.
They long to identify with a group (ethnic, religious, nationality) so as not to confront the loneliness that is inevitably sensed when that association is passed.
Taste, like taste in food is not dictated by anyone else other than the connoisseur who will probably nibble at fast food yet spit it when no one is around.

Love the site! And what makes every entry even better are the comments! How many people for every comment get mad, complain, bitch about race relations, or flat out deny there are huge gapping chasms of difference between the races? It’s simply amazing. The comments remind me of all the people in grad school who were so uptight and never laughed. I’ve made it a habit to keep reading the comments until I see one where a poster is swearing they will never read this blog again. Unfortunately, this usually means I stop before I get more than 5-6 comments in.

Dude, you are reading way too much into this……don’t let this stuff make you think about things that’s not worth thinking about…..namely, skin color and how it supposed to be a representation of some kind of individual CULTURE…

First, this guy who writes this blog is Canadian!….not many west Indians, Africans, or many people of color in general live in Canada anyway…..so he is going by what he has experienced with his group of friends and what sees…. fortunately, the sample group that he base his conclusions are very small in number.. …..so his basis for all of these blogs is OPINION….just his opinion….

And like you said, fortunately for free speech, he can say these things….

the problem arises when his words, or any other bloggers words, are taken at face value and applied to oneself…..no one can pigeon-hole you unless you let them….and unless you identify yourself with a certain group, like say…….the all encompassing ‘white people’, then you are setting yourself up for confusion…

The basic foolishness that you are reading is coming from people who think that their identity is wrapped up in their skin color……the white (skinned) people culture……I am guessing that the author of this blog KNOWS THIS and he gets immense humor reading all of the blogs from people who say that ‘what is written on these blogs is soooo me!’……He (the author) knows that the words ‘white people’ will keep the foolishness going because unfortunately, there are too many white people who buy into that notion of white culture, which at times, lead to thoughts of white superiority……which is a notion of thought that is way too prevalent in American society today.

Keep liking what you like in terms of music….no one can tell you what you are and what you like unless you let them…

I wonder if there’s a difference in this in various parts of the country. From my experience, I’ve found a lot of white people in the South who are under 35 seem to be into hip hop, rap, reggae even more.

Hibs, I forgot to mention how multi cultural Canada is….I was not trying to knock your great country….afterall, it was the place most african americans went to first when they could not take the racism of the US….

thanks for pointing this out……

And not to worry, I am having fun…..BUT….i won’t let ignorant statements go unchallenged…..

It seems that, unfortunately, you’re not actually in the audience for this blog, despite being half-white. What you don’t understand, and what it is necessary to read between the lines to see, is that this is a blog specifically targeting the suburban/urban affluent yuppie-inclined post-Boomer white people. In the world of these particular white people, this blog really resonates. This particular post, on music, does a better job than many of the posts on this blog at exposing the pseudo-intellectual inquiries that this sort of white person is constantly making of the world that s/he lives in. The irrelevant black music is part of a really half-baked bid for integrity, authenticity, and identity, all of which this white person has sort of decided that s/he needs, but isn’t sure how to get. If you aren’t asking yourself any of the typical questions that this particular white person is asking, then that’s fine, but it also means that you can’t get it. And I think you realize that.

Also: you seem quite intent on pointing out factual inaccuracies in the post. This is totally pointless. In fact, factual inaccuracies further underscore the point of the entire blog, which is to demonstrate the misguidedness of the various imperatives that this brand of white person has developed for him/herself. If white people think they are listening to authentic black music because it’s not hypercommercialized, and then it turns out that back in the day it was hypercommercialized, and not only that but white people played it, then it totally thwarts what they were going for. See?

Dude (SWPL), just roll with it. Put on some NWA or BB King, grab some hummus and plan next summer’s trip to South Carolina. Better yet, check to see if On Demand has an Welcome Back Kotter or House Party available.

….”trendy white people in the MEDIA made him PART of an ideological cause??”…

Ray G, you had better READ UP on Ali again….He had an ideological cause BEFORE ANY WHITE MEDIA, OR WHITE PEOPLE IN GENERAL bothered to jump on HIS BANDWAGON…..and for a guy to be BARELY BLACK, it made no difference to all those white racists he encountered…he was still black enough to be treated as badly as any darker skinned person….

Hmmm….now why did Ali say he threw his gold medal into the river after he got home?….nothing changed in terms of his dealing with white racism….

hmmm…now where were all these white supporters when he had his first heavyweight match with Sonny Liston??….Angelo Dundee and maybe Howard Cosell…but the rest of white america? to them he was a uppity, loudmouth…..

hmmm…where were white people when Ali refused to fight in Vietnam?…The Heavyweight champ of the world refusing to fight because, as he said, “he had nothing against those people…it’s the racist whites here in america (he had issues with)” and almost in unison (1966-67) white folk called him every name in the book, and stripped his belt, and took his passport….it wasn’t until a full TWO years later when, what you call, “trendy white people in the MEDIA” jumped on HIS BANDWAGON and used HIM to make a point against the war…but during those two years, he was struggling to make a living…and he was an outcast in White society…

Meanwhile, Joe Frazier and George Foreman rose up to be the darlings of boxing and white folk…

what you are talking is revisionist history when speaking about Ali….He is called the Greatest because NO ONE IN ANY SPORT has ever sacrificed the peak years of their respective sport for a ‘righteous cause’….Ali was the best fighter never to be seen in his prime (1966-1970)…all because he would not fight ‘a white man’s war’….and for that civil disobedience, they stripped him of his livelihood…..

and inspite of this….he came back and STILL became one of the greatest boxers who ever lived….PAST his prime!!

“He is called the Greatest because NO ONE IN ANY SPORT has ever sacrificed the peak years of their respective sport for a ‘righteous cause”

You are full of shit as usual. “No one” except people like Joe Louis, Tony Zale, Marcel Cerdan and the literally hundreds of boxers and sportsmen who suspended their careers to serve in WWII. Ali is unique only in that his lacuna was the result of NOT serving his country. Cassius Clay gave up a few years of his career. Thousands of Americans gave up their lives, their limbs and their sanity in Vietnam, but you think that Ali made the greater sacrifice? You’re not the brightest bulb in the box are you?

The website should be dubbed stuffpinkpeoplelike because if you look at your skin shade you will notice it is not white but as mentioned above.
The site is offensive because it means that pink folks are monochromatic ala white.
some are tanner than others so it should be named stuffbeigepeoplelike.

And comparing “white trash” and “trailer park trash” to the “N” word is like comparing a steak knife to a steak knife. The term used to denigrate Black people is totally and emphatically unacceptable. The two term used to denigrate white people are perfectly acceptable, and will in fact raise a cheap laugh in polite society, and the reason for that is that racists like Lander make mocking people because of their European origins acceptable.

How many times have you heard Britney Spears called white or trailer park trash? But do you think that anyone would dare to call Whitney Houston a dumb “N” bitch? The only standard the gibbering baboons of the liberal intelligentsia have left is the double standard.

The “N” word denigrates an entire race (ie. rascist). The term “trailer trash”, while bigotted (and I understand that if you’re an Apalachian American, James, you might be personally offended by this term), is not denigrating an entire race. It’s denigrating a subsection of a whole. That doesn’t make it right to use the term, but the two terms are not comparable, IMHO. “Cracker” denigrates the entire white race.

Either way, does your point even apply to this blog? Lander never uses the term “white trash”, or “cracker”.

Joe Louis, Tony Zale and Marcel Cerdan fought in A RIGHTEOUS WAR AGAINST EVIL, whereas you will find it very difficult to call the Vietnam War RIGHTEOUS, or even necessary………

While I am NOT saying that the veterans of the Vietnam War are NOT true, brave soldiers……THEY DID HAVE A CHOICE TO GO OR NOT TO GO…..choosing NOT to fight (consciensus objector status) was a real option…..ESPECIALLY FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS…and most african americans would NOT have gone if they had another option from the poverty and racism they were suffering at the time……at least in Vietnam, you had a gun to protect yourself from the Viet Cong…AND the racists who fought beside you….

Ali made good sense…why fight against a small country (which were NOT a threat in any way to America) for a country that did not treat you as an equal?…….He sacrificed a lucrative career at the prime of his life to make a STATEMENT ABOUT AMERICAN RACISM AND HYPOCRISY over an unjust war and how they treated their own people…..And guess what? It was at a time when he had literally no whites supporting him, and he stood up in the FACE of the racist system so ALL THE WORLD could see……I will state again….

“He is called the Greatest because NO ONE IN ANY SPORT has ever sacrificed the peak years of their respective sport for a ‘righteous cause.”

As for your statement about the sacrifice many made in Vietnam, you are correct on all points…..BUT….even though all that blood had been shed, THE REASON for that bloodshed in Vietnam was a WASTE…..as time has shown…..Ali eventually was called the greatest because he KNEW this all along and he made a PERSONAL SACRIFICE here in the US (racists of the day threatened his life all the time….which is like living in a war zone in his own country…..and i do not have to give you the numerous incidences of VIOLENCE AND RACISM perpetrated by whites on blacks during that time, do I?…

Sometimes James, you have to take off your sunglasses in the room to see the real brightness of the bulb…..and it would help if you stop looking for brightness in a box full of bulbs….the last time i checked….uh….a lamp causes the bulb to brighten?…..

Uh, excuse me James……but why should I reflect upon why ‘negative impressions persistently follow my ethnic group?’…..I already KNOW why……But since I am not white, I cannot tell you the reason why white people such as yourself tend to hold on to these ‘negative impressions’….

I have an idea, but I will let you tell me…..since you are a member of your particular ethnic group (I am speaking in terms of the world……whites are the smallest group in terms of numbers if you go by the white racist standard of studying people by “race”)…

Now I can tell you why MY ethnic group have ‘persistent negative impressions’ on your group…..but they are too numerous to write……YOU PEOPLE (the ones who think like you) have too many issues to point out…..

They are, in a de facto sense, race specific insults based on stereotypes. You are quibbling about how many angels can dance on a pin head. Lander’s blog is an insidious Fabian attack on the whole concept of the validity of whiteness. Underclass whites can be attacked with fairly open contempt. More successful whites are, for the time being, merely subject to ridicule. This understanding (or misunderstanding) of whiteness paves the way for Jewish fair weather whites like Noel Ignatiev to call for the “abolition of the white race”, for Susan Sontag to call white people the “cancer of history” and for racist Blacks like Kambon to openly demand that white people be “exterminated of off the face of the planet”. None of these sinister claims is taken very seriously because people like Lander prime people to believe that “being offended” is a “white thing”. I’ve as much right to be offended by Lander’s blog as blacks were by Don Imus’s recent comment, and I have the right to expect that Lander will be treated the same way as Imus was. That’s called a level playing field.

Uh – well, that would not describe me. Born and raised in the south, with LOTS of black music, including all the soul music of the 50’s and 60’s, I never once have gone to a jazz or blues club. I HAVE gone to some really cool black backwoods haunts where real blues is played, and real soul music as well. Once you’ve heard the real thing, all that commercial crap doesn’t ever compare. Real blues is made up on the spot, one man, one guitar, four chords, one painful outpouring of emotion. THAT is the blues.

I get really tired of being lumped in with the people described above. I have never been, nor will I ever be, one of those people. I’ve been described as a black person with white skin. And I hate Shiraz. Give me some good Jamaican sorrel wine any day over that bottled shit they sell in the grocery store.

If a black man called you “white trash”, observers would definitely say that some sort of racism was involved. “White trash”, when used by other whites, is “classist” at best. Not racist.

And again, you’ve compared a situation where a white has insulted blacks to a white who pisses some whites off (like you James) . Do you really think a white guy’s right to be offended by another white guy is comparable to Don Imus’ comment to those of members of another race (especially blacks in the U.S.)? :)

And Louie misses the entire point – Again – that this website isn’t about white people at all.

It’s about pretentious, arrogant Left wing types, of which you are one with gold stars, and bonus points.

No one has commented on whether your articulate or not. You’re not, btw, as much you think, but you tend towards the pedantic. Very annoying, and very arrogant. Hallmarks of the “white” yuppie class who assume so much, but know so little.

Nassim Taleb calls it epistemic arrogance. I love that.

In your search to be well spoken black man, you should look up “inductive logic.”

Think of deductive logic as starting at the broad base of an inverted pyramid. You have a relatively broad base of information, and you whittle down to a single conclusion or truth.

What you engage in is the opposite. It’s inductive. You start at the point of a normally situated pyramid of knowledge. You begin with one bit of information. From there you speculate more and more broadly, presumably filling in the blanks of the unknown, but you’re still speculating, . . . . and usually wrong.

the pink folk are all different despite their appearances.
they are as versatile as their shades of skin.
btw, what kinda brownish types read this site?
maybe like… the token black anchors from fox?
that would be fitting if the chosen ones from that network (picked as a sign of diversity) would study the stuff all whites like.
They seem like black kens and barbies which is kinda funny.
It is kinda weird to think in terms of color when potus doesn’t appear white

By the way, a person who accuses others that they ‘think too much’ usually do not do much thinking of their own….

you know Ray, you are really showing your true nature….I see that you have not attacked my equally wordy opponent in intellectual battles here, James…..I see that you are of the school of thought as Mr. James…….

Always missing the point due to trying to make your own point…at least I ADDRESS what is written to me….as for you, you just run on with this ….inductive logic gobbledygook, all the while not answering the questions asked of you…..

If you want to play with the big boys and talk the talk, the least you could do is answer the questions asked of you to make the debate interesting….save the inverted induction stuff for your logical thinking class……a class that you may have to study harder in……

James you are a complete BORE. I am sick of your agenda. This website makes many people laugh and I would appreciate it if you took your buzz kill somewhere else. I would hate to party with you because I’m sure you are the guy who kills the mood every time. James in fact I find you so boring that if you leave your email address I will Paypal you $50 to never post here again.

For the record, my speculation, as you call it Ray, has been quite accurate…..if you would read the stuff that people write, THEN read my replies, it would be common sense to any reader that it is not I, who is/was the problem, but rather, your so called liberal/conservative/whatever white friends who insist on making ignorant statements…..

What you should be doing is criticizing some of the stupid, based on non fact, ignorant rants that have been going on this blog…

Your biggest issue with me is NOT what i am saying, but rather, how i am saying it……therein lies your conclusion that i am arrogant…

typical reaction from certain types of white folk i’ve encountered …..but I ain’t goin nowhere….as long as people like you put out statements not based on truth and fact, then i will be here to correct them and hold you accountable….

Now the easiest cure for your ailment is simple….THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE…..Heck you should be GLAD that i am here….Ha Ha Ha.

How do white people perceive flatulence?
Do they condone the activity in polite company or are they apt to take offense?
If one white person deems it offensive does that mean others will likely do the same?
This post is for a friend who has gas and is of color and is surrounded by whites when chatting at the water cooler ext…
Should he take offense at the white people feigning offense?
Do white people ever let go amongst themselves?
Just tell it like it is-

I do have a sense of humour, it’s just that this website isn’t funny or humourous – in my opinion. The article/blog/whatever is devoid of anything that resembles funny (well, to me anyway!). Sure, it’s cynical – all the stuff about ‘real Hip Hop’ is interesting, and pretty much on point – but is still grossly innacurate. Although saying that, I don’t know what the land of Canada has to offer!

Whatever guys, if you think writing a few paragraphs is going to effectively summarise this aspect of contemporary culture – even regionally – then fine! I just don’t agree. Also if it is only regional, why is the blog called ‘Stuff White People Like’ and not ‘Stuff White People From My Town In Canada Like’? Perhaps I just don’t get it. I’ve hung around with so-called white people (and really I am one of them/you too as well as the other you know) and none of them have ever expressed such narrow minded opinions as the ones on this here blog-thang. Is that statement ok with you, white people?

Oh and by the way L. – ‘everyone’ knows who Son House and Muddy Waters are? You don’t meet many new people do you? And by people I don’t mean your right hand or girls in chat rooms. And that question is hypothetical – you don’t HAVE to answer it.

Otherwise, thanks for your efforts at getting me to understand the reasoning behind this paticular website.

I can’t believe so many people are reading this site. This is a project of Satan that distracts us from reading our Bibles.
If one is suffering of fragrant flatulence it is clear that you have demons living in your colon. Pray sinner. Pray at the water cooler, pray in the closet, and pray for a bowel detoxification program or an exorcism.
Polite whites don’t even acknowledge that they pass gas, let alone post it on the internet. Shame on you!

Ha. I’m a Chicana and could never get why white people have to listen to music that’s either really bluesy or jazzy. I have to have my pop music sounding icy and Teutonic; basically, if it sounds like a robot composed it, I’m there.

And what’s so funny is that white people will bash music minorities are actually listening to in favor of stuff that sounds just as unorganized and chaotic as blues and jazz sound to me. Look at the anti-disco brigade from the 1970s. Blacks and Latinos were all over disco, but the disco haters hated disco for not sounding like Boston or the Doobie Brothers or any other unwashed, overearnest ’70s band that attempted a Mississippi delta affectation but just sounded like noise.

Me, I’d rather have music that sounds organized and as far away from the blues/jazz trope as possible. John Foxx, Ultravox, the Berlin Blondes, Gary Numan, Naked Eyes, Vice Versa — all good examples of what I’m talking about. Even one of the greatest songs ever to come from America, A Number of Names’ “Sharevari”, has this very icy, passionless atmosphere around it, and guess what? A bunch of black teenagers from Detroit recorded that. It was the very genesis of Detroit techno, embraced by real minorities, while white people were trying to guilt themselves into getting into stuff *they* felt that “minority music” sounded like. (Bruce Springsteen is a good example here.) Hell, rap’s pioneers were completely into that icy Europeana, Gary Numan especially.

Whoever said to just enjoy whatever it is you truly enjoy is the most right on here. I have no qualms about the fact that 2/3 of my music collection originates from England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. That’s what I’m into. Multicultural teenagers rated R.E.M.’s “Radio Free Europe” especially highly on “American Bandstand” in the early 1980s. The reason for that being that it had a good beat and you could dance to it, the purest reason for liking something anyone’s ever given. Just go with the flow and don’t be hip for hipness’s sake because what’s hip today is square tomorrow, whereas if you’re genuine, that will last the test of time.

So what? It’s not difficult to get stupid people to laugh, as legions of now forgotten comedians have proved. Just as many people laughed at Jew jokes in the pre-PC era, does that make anti-Semitism funny? If you were not an ignorant poltroon you would know that you are deploying a bogus argumentum ad populum, but you are and you obviously don’t.

BTW, $50 may be a fiscal inducement in your world, but it’s small beer to me. I am, however, a man of little principle and if you could increase that to $5,000, I might, If I needed to buy a new pair of shell cordovans, consider it. Then again I might not.

I’m mixed-race, so I never am sure whether my agreeing with certain posts makes me more or less white. Hmm.

I do know that my dad (black) is the person that got me into blues and jazz, so there’s one exception for you. Apparently he was pretty weird and only listened to Muddy Waters and Charlie Parker in high school…

White’s loving hip-hop and jazz? Anything goes, now that we have Barack. He’ll let Israel slide on 9/11 and bailout everyone. Whites listening to black music is mandatory with Obama and why not?
Israel and 9/11, here:

Well, okay, I am a jazz lover, I like some blues, I like some rap, and some soul…now, the real question is…What music DO black people listen to these days? It must be some real obscure genre for no one to know until it’s, shall we say, “uncool”.

black people like crank n blues
it is just their genre ala ciara and her peeps.
they have block parties where they bring their cars and just park and just blast their music from their speakers and everybody shakes their booty.
thats what these do.
white people should start doing the same.
every suburban neighborhood should take over a parking lot (lets say wallgreens or safeway) and blast their favorite songs.
suburban heaven.

White people use the term white trash to “denigrate” a class/culture among whites. They’re not “denigrating” the whole white race. They still like and love other richer whites with no problems whatsoever. What don’t you get about that, James? :)

There’s a clear distinction between words that denigrate a subsection of a race, and words that denigrate a race as a whole. You stated ” comparing ‘white trash’ and ‘trailer park trash’ to the ‘N’ word is like comparing a steak knife to a steak knife”. You’re wrong: they’re clearly in two entirely different classes of slur. One has a long history that started being used almost 400 years ago. The other has been used for a much shorter time. One is applied to much more people in the world than the other. If you call the term white trash racist (and it can be) than you would have to call the “N” word super racist, or uber racist.

louiecoolgato, I like what you have to say. But I believe that sampling does create new music. Who’s the arbiter of what a piece of music is? And if European composers constantly pulled motifs and phrases from each other to build new music, then I say sampling does the same.

PS to Mike H.: You obviously weren’t paying attention in your BioAnthro 101 class. I know that most students take it as an elective, rather than a major requirement, but if you had paid attention during the whole semester, you would have learned that skin color is controlled by 7 alelles on 1 gene and no anthropologist hase used that “caucasoid” classification in 75 years. Except maybe Mengele and the Nazis.

This article is so true. Indie hip-hop is essentially white music performed by “white” black guys like Del who are really just hippies themselves and are shunned by real rappers. Real rap is gangster rap, ask any black dude who grew up in the hood what he would rather listen to, 50 or heiroglyphics, and he’ll tell you 50. Indie hip hop sucks too btw. Nothing beats gangster rap. Who wants to go to a club and listen to indie garbage when you can get down to some timbaland or nas. Kanye is a strange anomaly since he fuses the two, but after his latest garbage album he has gone “white.”

Na that was all in good fun but really I choose not listen to hip hop thats on the radio because it doesn’t appeal to me. I don’t own an guns, i’ve never sold drugs and because i’m in college I can’t afford to make it rain in the club. Oh and because I listen to hip hop that is intellectual and has meaning. Not just old school and not only made by blacks. Check out Blu’s debut album Below the Heavens. That album came out last year and it’s one of the best hip hop albums ever.

I’ve been noticing grammar issues and typos in a lot of these posts. Why not look over the entry a couple of times and make sure everything is correct? I know, I know, I’m being a stereotypical white spelling and grammar snob.

Dude, even if this site doesn’t align with your sense of humor, it’s worthwhile from an anthropological point of view. The people described by Lander are very good at looking at other groups’ cultural traits but not particularly self-aware.

Very well thought out article–i’ll say that. But, somebody has to much time on their hands to distinguish between all this information. Whatever happen to music being the universal language? Music is music, who gives a fuck what race listens to another race’s music.
It sounded a little biased to me.

I’ve been reading thru most of the comments and it seems like this isn’t a place for discussion but instead it’s a place where people flex their vocab. skills. I mean c’mon people, talk about the topic not whether they spell something correctly.

I don’t know if this is supposed to be serious, but if it is…damn. Ignorance on display.
1.) Plenty of blacks still like/listen to/perform jazz.
2.) Most blues bands playing in local bars/clubs/studios in Memphis are are made up of black musicians.
3.) Most, and I mean 99.9%, of blues lyric content deals with the troubles of life (woman left me, got no money, death, etc), NOT just issues that speak to blacks alone.
4.) Making the statement that black people only listen to party and crunk hip-hop is racist. No opinion there, just fact.

Damn. I dunno. I want to believe this article was trying for humor and failed.

why does a black creature need validation from a white man in regards to his taste in music.
any one can make generalizations yet it does not change the fact that if you listen to jazz then you listen to jazz even if someone claims you listen to pop.
The self esteem of people of color who seem to be rediculously on the defensive needs to be assessed.
It is obsurd that a random opinion (regardless of its eloquence) would draw such a vociferous debate.

I usually don’t do this….but….ummm….were you intentionally trying to sound intelligent by using words not commonly used in everyday language…at the same time writing “obsurd” for “absurd”, and “rediculously” for “ridiculously”?
Oh dear…and I am not sure if “black creature” is the term you want to use..black creation, maybe?
Anywho, jazz is all nice and all…yeah…
well this is a funny page.

And to anyone wondering…..THIS IS A FUNNY WEBSITE…A HUMOROUS WEBSITE…fuck! If you take it seriously, you clearly do not have a sense of humor sophisticated enough to wrap your brain around why this site exists.

“stuff that sounds just as unorganized and chaotic as blues and jazz sound to me.”!!!

Come on girl!!!
i’m speechless vis à vis this blindness !
jazz is the real classical american music!! the only one you hear in clubls in tokyo, tehran(yes iran) , stockhom, lagos and in all continents!

“I have no qualms about the fact that 2/3 of my music collection originates from England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland”

never heard the bluesy ton in Eric Clapton, Joe Cocker, Lisa Stansfield, ColdPlay ?
girl , you do have to revise your opinion!

Louie and james you forgot the great ones! JOHN CARLOS and TOMMY SMITH .

In Mexico olympic games they raised their hands : Black power , and they paid A HIGH PRICE for doing so!!!
their career was broken by the stupid white establishment of those years !!

James , you are funny !!! marcel Cerdan , you don’t seem to know much about him ! let this french guy aside ! he has no racist issues with black people (like you seem to have … hope i’m wrong … correct me PLIZ!)

Listen folks, you need to know how the rest of the world see America, some of you are full of themselves , others aren’t . from europe, things are a little bit different … don’t you agree father james …
————————————–

What are the origins of American exceptionalism? How much of the Bush administration’s foreign policy and the temptation of imperialism can one ascribe to this belief in an America outside of the world stage? Thomas Bender, American historian, proposes a new narrative of American history in this time of change to give it back its rightful place, as a history among histories.

Thomas Bender is an American historian who teaches at New York University. His main areas of research have been American urban and intellectual history, but he has also been known for his continuing concern for the way historians and history teachers are taught, as well as for building bridges between international perspectives on global history. In 2006 he published A Nation Among Nations: America’s Place in World History, hailed as a landmark work in American historiography, in which he seeks to bring into the light the many connexions that exist between American history and other histories throughout the world so as to try and put an end to the recent revival of American exceptionalism, a defect he esteems to be inherited from the Cold War. Other famous works include New York Intellect: A History of Intellectual Life in New York City, from 1750 to the Beginnings of Our Own Time (The Johns Hopkins University Press, 1987), Rethinking American History in a Global Age, ed. (University of California Press, 2002) and The Education of Historians in the 21st century (University of Illinois Press, 2003).

——————————————————————————–

1. The American nation, globalization and multiculturalism
La Vie des Idées: In the introduction of A Nation among Nations, you write that “this book proposes to mark the end of American history as we have known it”. What are your criticisms about this “old history”? Why has American history been shaped in such a way that it now should be abandoned?

Tom Bender: Well, I think that the first thing to say is that history, as a discipline, grew up with the making of the modern nation-state, and was an agent of the state. One of its purposes as it became academicized was to create a common story that would be the foundation for national self-identity. That story seemed to me to become more obvious than it actually had been before in the 1990s, when there was all this talk about globalization and, in the US, multiculturalism; and it seemed to me that these two discussions suggested that the nation-state was not this inherent natural carrier of history that we seemed to assume it was, but actually something to be examined as to how it was constructed and how it changed over time. It seemed like the suggestion was that a national history is some kind of sum, or result, of the collision of histories larger than the state and smaller than the state; that is, globalization on the one side, and our big debates on multiculturalism on the other side. That was where I sort of moved from that position, that was a kind of purely intellectual thing about how one might construct a new narrative.

There was also, in the United States, the question of – and this got worse a few years later as I started working on the book, beginning with the Bush administration – this revival of American exceptionalism; that we do not share the history of the rest of the world. Particularly in the recent years, this notion that the international is everything but us. It’s an intriguing usage, that we’re not in the international. In fact, when they created American Studies programs in the beginning of the Cold War, they created Area Studies and those at the same time, but didn’t grasp that American Studies was also an area, in the international world.

VDI: Global history sometimes suggests that historians should leave aside the category of the “nation” and focus more specifically on global concepts and experiences. Your position seems to be different, as you hold the nation to remain a crucial political entity. How do you view the relationship between national and transnational factors?

Tom Bender: I think that, basically, the idea of abandoning the study of the nation for the study of globalization misses an absolutely fundamental point about the nation-state. It is, I think, perhaps the most powerful mobilizer of human beings in history, and whatever its future may be it will have different permutations – but I don’t think it’s going to go away very soon. It has shaped the world we live in, the world that is the product of the 19th and 20th century and of the nation-states and their system, so I don’t see how we can understand where we are without taking that in as a factor. Then, is the nation-state as autonomous, and as self-contained as we thought? No. Is it also sometimes the product or deeply affected by global processes? Absolutely. One can see it as both floating on a sea of global processes, but at the same time these global processes are profoundly shaped by the activity and the interaction of these different nation-states as well.

We’ve seen in recent years that people can’t cross borders very well. So this notion that we have of a seamless world: it’s not that seamless; that was a fantasy; it was seamless for certain people in certain circumstances. So I think we have now, I hope, a more complicated notion of the nation, and a more complicated notion of global processes.

VDI: What do you think of the efforts of historians such as Frederick Cooper and Jane Burbank who are trying to rewrite world history with the category of the “empire”, suggesting that nations should be understood as empires rather than strictly-speaking national political bodies?

Tom Bender: I think that their recovery of “empire” is extremely important. Part of my experience of writing this book was to learn a great deal about empires. I think that there may be three categories in the world: empires, nation-states, and what I would call – and something I would think that the United States in the 20th century is, and most 20th century nations who’ve at least aspired to this, I think certainly the Soviet Union was too – a “nation/empire” with some of the characteristics of a nation-state but some of the ambitions of an empire. And I think that empire, at least to an americanist, is quite striking because empires did not demand the kind of homogeneity that nations do – because of the nature of citizenship, which is a fundamental part of the nation-state – they are less interested in borders, it’s the dynasty that has to survive. If they lose a province, it’s not fatal; to a nation-state, this is catastrophic.

They don’t even have to have all their provinces continuous: you can have colonies in all kind of places, so I think that thinking about that solves a lot of multicultural problems that we have in the nation-state because you don’t demand uniformity, in fact there are different rules for several sub-units of the empire. The nation-state looks for a certain kind of homogeneity, at least formally equal citizens although we know that socially they’re not, and so that’s a whole set of alternative problems. I’ve been much taken by a book, recently, written by a historian, I guess, named Harold James; it’s called The Roman Predicament [1]. To crudely summarize the argument, it is that republics often end up becoming empires while trying to save the republic because the only way you can save the republic is by becoming an empire. For example, I just finished collaborating with a German historian, Michael Geyer, on an essay on Germany and the United States in the 20th century as “nation/empires” competing with each other and I think that this third category helps, as we think about it.

Humor is in the EYES of the beholder…..not all of us have clouded eyes to laugh at non-funny statements….but….some people believe that inaccurate, general statements about certain groups of people whom they themselves are not members of…..they THINK it is “humor sophisticated enough to wrap your brain around”…..

‘White guilt’ has been foisted upon all of white america. For
the crime of slavery that most whites had nothing to do with. But, enough of us have been foolish enough to buy into it. Affirm action, for starters.

Never mind that the U.S. imported the least amount of Africans during that time.

‘White guilt’ has been foisted upon all of white america. For
the crime of slavery that most whites had nothing to do with..”

The white guilt that you are talking about is NOT the actions that most whites did not commit, but rather, the BENEFITS that most whites recieved from the actions of the guilty….

If it were not for the LABOR of african americans under slavery, your beloved towns and cities would not have been built…The Capitol Building here in DC was built with SLAVE labor…

If it weren’t for the LABOR of african americans under slavery, whites would not have food to eat because it was slaves who produced the food…..in addition to taking care of your children, and doing every other menial work that whites refused to do…

Affirmative Action is a rule MADE BY WHITE MEN to correct the injustice of WHITES….it white people were doing the RIGHT THING in the first place, there would not be any affirmative action…

As for your comment that the US imported the least numbers of Africans….that makes the guilt of whites that more magnified….look at all the work whites got out of those few africans and their descendents…..

Why don’t you lay off the ‘guilt trip’ and take a trip to some history books and educate yourself babalugatz?…

When there is apology by whites it is almost always for slavery. I think an issue that is often overlooked is the fact that most African Americans are part white and therefore related to what are referred to as white people. A thing that is very sad and needs forgiving is that white people rejected their own direct relatives and children and allowed them to continue in slavery instead of accepting them as family which they and we are. We are related back to Adam and Eve of course but many white people and many black people in america are family yes because of rape or perhaps other reasons, but regardless still family and still part white and black and it really is a tradgedy. I think there are a lot of truths on both sides that both of us need to accept as truth. One truth is that a large amount of white people in america have rejected their own relatives and ancestors. We really arent as different as we try to make ourselves out to be. Even genetically, when the majority of black people are part white, watch African American lives 2, you can find clips of it on youtube.

LOL I disagree with this post. There are plenty of white kids who love the hell out of crappy rap music. It’s not just black kids. I also listen to jazz while enjoying some wine and maybe a cigarette. It’s relaxing. Jazz is soulful and relatively devoid of the crap being pushed out from the radio and record companies.

Now, I will say that rappers like Wu-Tang have a huge white following, but they had them WHEN they were popular on radio and tv/mainstream. That’s nothing new. I will also thank those people, white, black, Asian or polka dot, who have the common sense to appreciate good music enough to keep it alive. THANK YOU! I still listen to Wu, I love the Cool Kids, Jedi Mind Tricks are cool, Blackalicious, Atmosphere, Murs. Those are real rappers. The people on the radio: Soulja Boy, Yung Berg, Ace Hood, etc. SUCK.

As much as I hate to agree with you, brothas do love sistahs with big booties, Caddillacs, Popeyes more than KFC. LOL. I will not argue with those known facts. As far as getting parole, I guess whites dont get parole as much as blacks or you wouldnt bring that up. Anyone who was locked up would be happy to parole, cigarettes are for folks who smoke and dont like their lungs and what the hell you talking about yelling at people in passing cars? It that one of your lil kinks. I have no idea what your ignorant behind is talking about there. You never disappoint me with your talking out your ass again.

yes, white people have adopted blues….but, above all the genres of music that are popular nowadays, I think there are some white boys that play the blues very respectably….Jack White and Keith Richards just to name 2…

Something white people enjoy more than listening to jazz at home is listening to jazz in a crowded bar, so they can say, “You know who I saw in some shitty little bar? So-and-so. Yeah, that’s right, So-and-so. I was sooooo close.” It’s even better if it’s referenced that said white person saw a famous musician IN THE PAST, as everything that happened in the past is really white.

Just one of the many things you got wrong :*Current* HipHop-Artists have over 70% of their sales in white suburbia. As some commenter noted, she went to a concert with kanye, rihanna and nerd and the audience was completely white.

Oh, and : I got no TV, but roughly 1500 Jazz-Vinyl-Records. But I guess by your standards I just try *really* hard to pretend.

i’m just pretending to like duke elllington, especially “fleur africaine” on the “money jungle” soundtrack. i’ve been pretending to get chills. you’ve outed me, i can finally stop smiling, that is pretending to smile, when i listen to thelonious monk do “bye-ya” on a “prestige” label 45 with art blakey. what a relief, the charade is over. this is great. i can finally throw out my first press of “giant steps” and my 78’s of louis armstrong.

Good to see that people are taking this seriously, because this is, after all, a completely serious site with no intended satire or whimsical cultural commentary. I think that as a whole, we need to micromanage and be as offended as possible from every idea, whether it be intended as humorous or not. This world is not high strung enough as it is, so thank you!

Not really. It’s more of a case of people who have a genuine love of music getting pissed at pseudo-intellectuals discouraging others from that enjoyment by falsely claiming that their musical preferences are solely impelled by a desire to curry favour with Black people.

White cultural snobs get so sanctimonious when their lame stereotyping is, like their own sense of superiority, exposed as having virtually no basis in any kind of reality recognised by normal people.

Blacks constitute a small minority of the population. If only Black people liked it, it would never become “commercial” in the first place. The claim is eo ipso bullshit in the first place. David Hannum has a very good explanation of why you love it.

Whilst the bill abolishing slavery was passed in the British parliament, White children as young as four were being forced up chimneys to be used as “human brooms”, the majority of them died in horrible accidents, many were burned alive when they became stuck in chimney breast and attempts were made to “smoke” them out. The “survivors” died very young of a myriad of cancers associated with inhaling creosote and soot. During and AFTER the period of Black enslavement, pregnant White women hauled three hundred pound coal carts underground. During the winter the working day was so long that these miners never say sunlight for months on end. Take your bullshit sob story and shove it Louie. We don’t owe you anything.

Satire: the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.

The argument that this site is not satire rests upon the many convincing arguments that this site’s claims are based on vice and follies that are consistently found to be based on fiction and the social niche prejudices of its author.

the ONLY reason african descendants haven’t gone after Brazil or any other countries for “reparations”, is that, unlike the guilt-ridden U.S., all the other countries would tell you to stick it up your collective asses.

plenty of Chinese & Irish helped build this country, along with the blacks.
I don’t hear any of my people whining

honestly how lame are all of you people getting offended and citing some Jazz you listen too… this web site is funny because it satirically points out stereotypes of goofy white people. Why even come on if your going to find a way to get offended and call it “hollow prejudice”… oh yeah.. probably because the site was funny to you until it mentioned your precious jazz. I’m guessing you write hate mail to any comedian or show writers who were ever funny for the “hollow prejudice” they display in the media. Take the stick out of your asses, douchebags.

#14 Angrily telling people to be more loving
#15 Mispronouncing the word ‘ask’
#16 Hanging out at barber shops
#17 Sucking imaginary food out of their teeth
#18 Holding a pistol sideways while shooting
#19 Tyler Perry
#20 Pimpin and hustlin
#21 Holding saggy pants with one hand to keep them from falling completely down
#22 Substituting the word ‘stay’ for ‘live’ as it refers to place of residence; i.e. – where you stay at?
#23 Ending sentences with prepositions
#24 Worrying grievously over whether one is properly respected
#25 Keepin it real

Since when did listening to music be about trying to emulate, ‘keep alive’ or ‘be in touch’ with a certain time, race or feeling? Since when did you have to be ‘relevant’ to its theme in order to listen and enjoy it?

According to your theory, nobody listens to music for the simple reason that it is good and can stand the test of time. Black Americans only like modern hiphop, but are so fickle and shallow that as soon as it becomes unpopular, they will move on. Is that what you really want to say?

So when I listen to Mozart, am I keeping alive the 18th century? Am I clinging on to a dying form of music, creating a niche that can be looked down upon by those who know better? Or is it just good music?

When I put on my KMD records, I am not dreaming of the days when I could solve my differences through breakdance. I am not holding onto any belief that the music was created with relevance to me and my social surroundings. I am simply enjoying good music. Why does it have to be about image?

G.U.Y, am I so wrong to recommend putting a little love in ones heart, golly gee, I did not realize I was troubling you so. I am actually empressed with your ignorant stereotypes. Lets see, #18, 19, occasionally 20,22,23 and 25. You did your homework, looking at ‘boyz n da hood’ & ‘menace to society’ have paid off. I can only say that not all brothas act like that, but to keep it real, alot do, accoriding to the media. LOL. You still suck though so dont get happy and take this as submission to your bull You just put alot of thought into your ethnic slur list and hit a few that cant be ignored. Now, #14,17, and 21 are just nonsense. # 15 & 24, Im just torn. I cant tell whether to agree or argue. You have put me in a difficult situation here my nemisis. I will only say that only a very vocal few act like this. The majority of non white people are far from your list of propaganda, and since you did put some thought into your lil list, I will take the high road and let you off the hook this time.

ps, your still an asshole and you still need to put alil love in your heart:)

Ok, I’ll be the first to admit that I match like 90% of the things you list here except this one because I actually like jazz. But I run into these assholes all the time that claim to love Miles Davis yet can’t name a single song of his. Oh, you bought the Herbie Hancock album with Christina Aguilera on it? you must be a jazz fanatic (whatever).

Also, I just started grad school and everyone I meet listens to “old school” hip-hop. You hit the nail on the head with this one.

Haha, this is true. I’ve been to plenty of hip-hop concerts in So Cali and most often when the concert involves Common, Mos Def or The Roots, you are apt to see more non-blacks. Perhaps that is because these artist(s) are also considered “safer” in terms of the type of crowd they appeal to.
I think it also means that these artist(s) are more diverse and speak to a wider range of people.
Hip-hop music is music for the people. All people.

how about all the “underground rap” that extremely white hipsters (redundant i know) are into? i love listening to them talk about how much they love that stuff, not to mention watching big crowds of them dance to it, yay!

guys, I didnt mean to come off racist sorry if I sounded that way. I was just trying to say that it sad that white and black people for the most part in America are related, this info. comes from new dna tests emerging and geneology searches. A great show that was on this was African American lives 2 on pbs. I just believe its sad that we arent as different as we think and we dont have to separate ourselves as we do. Thats what I was trying to say, if you believe that is hateful or racist than I apologize.

I am confused. What is this post about? A lot of rap music producers are influenced by blues and jazz. It’s really hard to say what a particular race prefers listening to. Is it impossible for a person to listen both to commercial rap and the music that “white people are saving?” My last question, what does white have to do with any of this?

Wooweewow. I love the site and how it highlights the light hearted sense of humor and life lacking in uptight, liberal white folks. White liberals, especially those educated at UPenn, Swarthmore, Brown and the like, are so lacking in soul and shoot-from-the hip fun it’s great fun to simply observe in action. I don’t think this site is about politics particularly, but it’s enlightening to read the reactions to some of the posts. I think lefties are upset they can’t work with their hands like the “wrong kind of white people” do…

Okay, this post totally cracked me up! I just found “The Best Rap Tracks” at used CD store. The kid at the counter asked me if I like hip hop and I almost replied…”yeah, but only Old School…I can’t stand the sh** they play nowadays”
I am sooo guilty.

A rather shallow response by the kind of people watcher who is afraid to venture beyond Starbucks. Fashion doesn’t dictate the historical importance of movements in music. I find this article to be not only ignorant but blatantly racist.

Music is music. No one made it for no one, but made it because they liked it. And as listeners, we choose to listen to the music that an artist that was made from a different race than ourselves. What about respect for music history and music that embraces struggle for equality? It’s just music my child, and we are but listeners with free will. (Even if that free will is acting like posers and e-mailing friends about how we liked ”Jazz,” or ”R&B Soul.”

“”“I don’t listen to that commercial stuff. I’m more into the Real Hip Hop, you know? KRS One, Del Tha Funkee Homosapien, De La Soul, Wu Tang, you know, The Old School.”

Calling this style of music ‘old school’ is considered an especially apt name since the majority of people who listen to it did so while attending old schools such as Dartmouth, Bard, and Williams College.””

It is a-hole of me for me to quote against a piece of blog, but this is just a load of crap. I don’t listen to that commercial stuff” Let me ask you; are white people or black people the ‘leaders’ of ”that commercial stuff”? It is not fair since I have met many minorities who also call Wu Tang, De La Soul, DTFH, and NWA old school. The term old school didn’t come about because it was old, it was because every musical masterpiece made in that era was classified (late 80s to mid 90s) as old school when Millennium hit. I understand the context that these ‘white’ people used when saying so, but that is how they learned and that is how the rest of us (minorities) learned. I bet you that if you ask Ice Cube if he still remembers “Gangsta Gangsta,” he’ll probably say something along the lines of referencing it somewhere along ‘old.’

Also the term ‘old school’ white people say and the old schools that white people attend (like Dartmouth and Bard) are not exactly the same here. When I say that I am an ‘O.G’ (a.k.a Original Gangster-‘a), I’m not referring myself to Al Capone or Bugsy Siegel. And when I say I am O.G., people understand that I am referencing original gangsta (not gangster like Capone).

And your comment calling out a conformist coward makes you an a-hole who makes himself bigger than life by picking out others weaknesses that they had the courage to share online. Oh, but they did it behind their monitors, they’re not courageous? I see the same load of dog feces right here and now. And what does this make me? Maybe someone who has had it with people who reply to other readers comments to make their epeen bigger online to compensate for their shortcomings.

I’m a bit puzzled by your response Golis. When Lander pointed out out what an a-hole Wunder was being you didn’t feel the need intercede. When I point out what an a-hole you are, your appreciation of self-deprecation turns to infantile rage. It seems you just a-kiss on the basis of Internet status. What a feeble loser you are.

Basically Lander’s post just highlights how White people are less likely to be swayed by novelty and heavy commercial promotion in their musical choices. Maybe Lander yearns for a time when the majority of all people lap up whatever the ad-man shoves down their throats. The liberal intelligentsia are just pissed that more and more people are rejecting commercial culture in ways that used to be much more exclusive to liberal elitists. Lander isn’t poking fun at White people, he’s just bitching about the amount of plebs who are infringing liberal copyright.

As a middle-aged white guy (the target demographic for jazz) I feel compelled to report that while I *do* like jazz — snicker if you must — most of the white people I know don’t care for it at all. Make of this observation what you will.

And I’ve never cared for hip hop. I bought that big Run DMC album back in the ’80s — when I guess it was called rap, not hip hop — and enjoyed their cover of “Walk This Way” (which, I guess, confirms that I’m white) and “You Be ‘Illin”. But aside from enjoying the occasional iTunes download my 11-year-old daughter plays by hip hop artists I’m not curious enough to ask her to name, hip hop’s relentlessly throbbing tunelessness — to say nothing of its profanity and leering sexual innuendo — leaves me cold.

Hahaha. People who get worked up over internet blogs kill me. Do you realize the person that runs this site named it “stuff white people like”? There is a comical undertone within the entire list in case you didn’t realize it. It’s not a bible for white preferences, just funny trends. Have a good day! sincerely.

Not true james! one of those frankfurt School , Adorno hated jazz music and the huge commercial aspects of american culture !! Frankfurt … is sooo german! so european , that’s more likely to fit your taste james!!

Maybe we could gain some insight if you could give an alternative explanation for your self-censorship? If you didn’t restrain yourself out of a desire to not be laughed at, maybe you are an ideological snob pandering to the dictates of fashionable opinion? Maybe you are conformist by nature? Who knows? You seem to be totally lacking in self-awareness.

And a few white moms too.
Ditto on the Run DMC comments. We all had that “album” back in high school, before the genre became so racially segregated. Actually around the same time that the Beastie Boys mainstreamed it.
Wait, the Beastie Boys are white! OMG! Why is it that when white people try to assimilate with blacks through culture, we become wanna-be’s, instead of culturally sophisticated?
Why can’t we all get along?

Be polite james!! don’t loose your education! on “asian girls” , when commenting on Michel Houellbecq’s novels, you see “good info” (your own words) and here i become a* ? this doesn’t elevates you , great thinker!!!

For your info bulk of FS , went back to Germany . only Herbert Marcuse and Adorno , stayed in USA , mainly in german-jewish milieu with high nostalgia to beloved german culture , although as jews , they knew the dark side of the story!!

The essence of your argument is that the blog should not be considered satirical because its subject material is consistently ridiculous, and presumably because it is easy to identify as such. Why don’t you read the definition of satire you have provided a few more times.

I am an Anglo-Saxon. The ability to laugh at your own ethnic peculiarities whilst holding the ethnic foibles of others to be beyond comment, criticism or humour, is symptomatic of neurosis, not confidence.

Did anyone see this NYT article on “Finding the Right Turntable for Your Stereo System”…??? Holy cow. For a minute, I thought the author of SWPL had passed off one of his posts as an actual Times article. Here is the first paragraph or two:

“WHEN Melissa Walker, 31, was growing up, vinyl records were nostalgic artifacts. But when three crates of LPs were left in an apartment she had rented, a $10 thrift store record player turned those records into a kitschy novelty. And when her boyfriend bought her a Rega P1 turntable and a Bill Evans jazz album for her 30th birthday, playing the records became a daily ritual.

“Dave brought it home, and we dimmed the lights and sat on the couch with a glass of wine, and I felt like we were in a jazz club,” Ms. Walker said. “I could hear the musicians breathing. It felt like I could hear them smoking.”

But I don’t know enough about music to really appreciate what’s going on, even in the standards. So I like it on a gut level; does my ignorance of the intellectual level mean that I’m only pretending to enjoy what I’m hearing?

James, the fact that wunderschoener *recognized* him/herself in this blog post and what’s more, is able to laugh about it, implies MORE self-awareness, not less. And there are many reasons someone might choose not to voice every thought in an exchange with a stranger in a public place. Seems like you’re making a lot of assumptions here.

Wow. Okay, I’ll bite and explain how I read this blog. So calling Obama the name you mentioned is very, very different from what Lander is doing in this blog. The epithet you’re making reference to is an extremely loaded, hurtful one with a long history…and is tied to an equally long history of violence against and oppression of black people in America. This much is obvious. It should be equally obvious that nothing in Lander’s blog could possibly approximate this because we don’t have equivalent words or stereotypes about white people as a group (about smaller groups of white people, yes of course we do, but that’s not what Lander is getting at here; as you’ve noticed, this blog doesn’t make fun of Irish people or POlish people, for instance). And whatever words or stereotypes we can think of associated with white people are NOT associated with violence against or oppression of white people as a group.

What I think Lander is trying to get us to do is to recognize some of our tastes, preferences and opinions as culturally derived (which doesn’t make them good or bad) rather than matters of Good Taste or Right and Wrong. Yes, he makes sweeping generalizations, partly (I think) because it’s funny, and partly to make the point that we do this to other groups all the time. And I know what he’s doing here isn’t very scientific, but a lot of readers recognize the tastes, etc he’s pointing out, and we are beginning to see ourselves as a demographic group like any other. We white people typically see our choices as informed, intelligent, right, tasteful etc. but NOT as subjective, culturally influenced, one perspective among many, etc. This is a luxury that people of color often don’t have. Yes, I’m sure many people of color will still explain why their tastes and preferences are right, intelligent, etc…but I think they’re much more likely to grasp the concept of multiple perspectives and of the connection between culture and our personal choices. We white folks tend not to be aware of our culture. But we’re not living in a vacuum, and we’re not unique…that’s all Lander is trying to tell us.

Ummm…. ok- did not reference any level of confidence, only humor…. no reason to try and get me to hate you as well… so given your intellect, when did you first realize your being so symptomatic of an active neurosis; or- in layman’s terms, if you don’t like it, don’t read it…

i am black, i am at work and was looking for coffee to order for my boss who is white and lo and behold, here i am here at this website. very interesting and funny. your site describes ALL the white people i’ve EVER worked with. i’ve worked in many different areas from accounting (very white) to colleges and universities (white on white)!!! this is funny. you hit it right on the nose. i never realized that whites and their tastes, attitudes, etc. are the same wherever you go…exactly the same!! with blacks, we have diversity–in color, how we speak and attitude. but with you whites, you are all in one category. sorry, but that’s just the way i’ve seen it for many years!! take it how you want! :-)

Hilarious!
You forgot one thing that white people like:
They believe their own bullshit!

Oh, and some of us prefer Black….not African American. Due to a few things out of my control, I don’t know what parts of Africa my folks come from. I can only tell you the lowdown on the American and European blood lines.

Peace Out my precious wack, white European buddies!
We Blacks sure do appreaciate you keeping it real!
What a great blog!

This is the first time I’ve come to this site. It is hilarious. I’m black and you have to appreciate this honesty. It’s nice to hear it from this point of view. Kudos to whoever started this site. Again, I’m new so I don’t know who that person may be.

Can I still be a stereotype white person listening to old school hip hop if it’s just because I’m old? It would be fun to be on ragged edge but with a job and three kids I can only watch Krush Groove on Netflix and the only the only place I’m likely to encounter LL Cool J and Run DMC is at church on Sunday.

KRS-One, WuTang, Del are all black musicians enjoyed by black/white/whatever race people. Just because some white people like it doesn’t mean it is somehow racist/reverse racist or whatever this blog is trying to prove.

My God… A black man takes revenge for all of those terrible hollywood stereotypes of black men (usually played by Eddie Murphy and shouting “sheeeeeeiit! Mother f***er!” a lot) and lumps a couple of billion white people into the same category of Dork Who Wants To Be Black (TM).

I’m sorry, but your stereotype is just as wrong as all of those Hollywood stereotypes, and it’s just as racist.

Marcelle…. if you think all white people are exactly alike, you’re waaaaaaay off. Just letting you know. Way off. It’s not true. An Irish American has ethnic baggage not shared by an English American. Recent immigrants are different from people whose families have been here for generations. There are diffrences in religion, class, identity… If you pay attention and get beyond what we might have in common, you’ll notice that there are differences.

Your point might have a vestige of credibility if I had said whites are “never” swayed by novelty and commercial promotion. Unfortunately for you what I said was “whites are LESS LIKELY to be swayed by novelty and commercial promotion”. Lander agrees, because he is the person claiming that Black people don’t like Blues, Jazz or Old School. I would also add classical to the list of music that is not much liked by Blacks but has a devoted white following. I always enjoy someone stumbling in the starting blocks and falling flat on their face. Thanks for posting!

thanks man, i am not, in fact, truly offended because that would be just like a white person. Y’all come on down to new orleans and i’ll buy you a po’boy and take you to indian practice. really, no kidding, we’ll have fun. you’d have to be here on a sunday.

So the spread of ideas is “theft” now is it? In which case we “stole” flying from the birds and polar exploration from the penguins. Of course, if all of these ideas belong to Iraq, Asians, Africans and Amerindians will also have to immediately suspend all participation in agriculture and animal husbandry, so I’m looking forward to the reversion of around 99% of the human race returning to hunter gatherer modes of subsistence. Millions of people like you have the right to vote vote. Scary!

LOL, if you want to play that game, just remember that without paper or gunpowder (Chinese inventions) European civilization would never have gotten into its dominant position today.

Every civilization has its ups and downs, remember that while the Germanic people were wearing bear skins and performing human sacrifices, the Mediterranian and Middle Eastern people were creating grand cities, religions, and world wonders.

This and the #108 “Pretending to Like Classical Music” perfectly illustrate how the culture industry has stripped music of all its expressive powers and turned it into a tool for promoting cultural stasis and conformity. Nicely done. (I mean it — even though this blog is humorous, I think it also raises some very nice sociological points.)

So when people listen only to commercial music they are promoting cultural stasis and conformity, and when they reject commercial music and explore less mainstream musical avenues, they are also promoting cultural stasis and conformity? Sounds like your comment is promoting ideological conformity and stasis Etha.

Tosh I’m afraid! There is no substantive evidence that Europeans acquired gunpowder from China. European gunpowder was superior to Chinese gunpowder and the advanced state of metallurgy in Europe meant that it was only Europeans who were capable of developing functional firearms.

PS. The region known as the Mediterranean is generally regarded as European, twat!

I find it hard to believe that you’re planning on changing, or to play in your playground, saving the world by commenting on a humorous blog. (And I don’t care if you don’t think it’s funny, the point is that it’s satire, not sincerity.)

Not entirely, it encompasses North Africa and Asia (Anatolia) as well. And I was merely stating that while northern Europeans were living in barbarism, southern ones were creating Europe’s classical culture.

This is so funny. Being a black person reading this site always brings a tear to my eye because, where I live, all this stuff is true! And for those people who think they understand every individual black experience as a collective, it’s just not possible to. Everyone is different and has different experiences. The people that are talking about ol’ school hip-hop are just impregnating the wackness!! I know that many of these same people loved to criticize hip-hop as ‘too black’ and ‘not progressive enough’ or ‘they aren’t real musicians, because they don’t play instruments!” All of this rhetoric and jocking seems highly dubious to me as a person who actually grew up in the culture and listened to the music! Just my two cents

I’m white but i have to take exception to Wu Tang – i’ve always loved them and everything (almost) that they’ve done. But i did notice a trend at my High School with my White Friends. While i was listening to Enter 36 chambers Freshman year i was made fun of, by Senior year everyone was playing it at their little get togethers actually thinking it was funny and “old school”! I was so pissed. That music gets me going like nothing else though, even if i cant repeat their choruses “shame on a cracker”

Thank god this site exists – finally white people are starting to understand they are racialized too (hopefully)

“It makes sense considering that the British were the ones who created The Blues in the 17th Century.”

“Calling this style of music ‘old school’ is considered an especially apt name since the majority of people who listen to it did so while attending old schools such as Dartmouth, Bard, and Williams College.”

Every angry black person should read this blog b/c it would totally diffuse them. This is the most penetrating satire on white people ever created. And it just keeps coming! God bless you Mr. Lander

The fourth reason to plant a racially reconciled church in downtown Cincinnati is this: racial reconciliation forces us to have a missionary mindset.

One of the most important things for aspiring missionaries to learn in preparation for the mission field is how to best communicate with people who are different from them. This is called contextualization. Basically, the patterns of communication that work for me in my context may not work so well in someone else’s context.

For example, I have spent two summers in Argentina leading short term mission projects. I had to speak to people who didn’t know English primarily and had different culture and customs. It was perfectly acceptable for men to kiss each other on the cheek. In fact, to not greet someone with a “beso” would have been perceived as an insult.

But they also had different customs in terms of food, time, family, and community. As missionaries, we recognized that this was their country, and to reach them we had to be aware of that fact and work within their context.

This experience has led me to a couple of conclusions regarding racial reconciliation in Cincinnati. First, we are first and foremost citizens of the city of God, and only secondarily citizens of any earthly city. God requires us to interact with one another on the basis of mutual love for each other and seek the highest good of other people.

Secondly, yielding our cultural preferences to another person is not easy to do, but can be learned with patience, practice, and accountability. Suppose a person is part of a church body that constantly urges him to consider the perspectives of a person of a different race. This person would learn to love and respect the other person because (1) he is his neighbor and (2) he is a fellow believer in Christ.

When I was in Argentina, many of their customs seemed strange to me. Yet I respected them because my purpose was to die to myself and show them Christ, not be a cultural colonialist. Likewise, there is much about the African American community that I do not understand as well. But since my citizenship is in heaven and not white America, God has called me to behave according to Christian conviction first and foremost. That’s what it means to be on mission: I respect my neighbor as a fellow bearer of God’s image before I indulge my own cultural preferences, even if I have good reason for them.

As Christians, our calling is to die to ourselves daily and follow Christ. We are to be good neighbors and not cultural colonialists. White people are terribly uncomfortable with this. What if, God forbid, we had to mix in some Fred Hammond with our Chris Tomlin? What if we had to follow a Bible study leader who votes for Obama (never!). What if this experience led us to places in our own hearts where we realize that maybe we’ve baptized white Americanism and called it Christian?

We can’t be cowards. It takes guts to consider other people as better than ourselves; to allow others to be first while we’re last. Regular American Christians don’t live this way, but missionaries do.

Here’s my prediction: a gospel saturated, Christ glorifying, self-denying, racially reconciling, poverty killing, cross-cultural church will send lots of missionaries to crazy places because the people will have developed a mind-set of gospel centered self-denial.

“Secondly, yielding our cultural preferences to another person is not easy to do, but can be learned with patience, practice, and accountability”

How about yielding up your cultural preference for antique, executed Jews? What you mean is that white people should give up everything that is important to them, in order that you might persuade non-white people to accept what is overwhelmingly important to you. Screw you baby!

“It makes sense considering that the British were the ones who created The Blues in the 17th Century.”

Seventy percent of the African population were enslaved to other Africans. Slavery was a historical institution in Africa long before white men were ever involved in the transatlantic slave trade, but Blacks only begun to get a sense of despair about slavery when white men started to get involved? Bullshit! The “Blues” were the creation of a fusion of the innate emotionalism of Africans and their exposure to sophisticated European musical traditions. Nothing to do with slavery.

I listen to and own a lot of different music, however, far and away the bulk of my music collection and what I most enjoy comes down to 2 genres-

1- “Old”/”Real” (for lack of a better term) country (which is kind of like soul music for the wrong kind of white people ye know)

and yes-

2-R&B/Soul/Funk/early rap (kinda lost interest in rap/hip-hop somewhere around the mid 90s)

Which if you consider my background makes perfect sense. I am a 33 year old white southerner who grew up in a majority black town (I was the only white kid in my 4th grade class, hows that for silly WP street cred?) First album I ever bought at age 7 was “Best of the Sugar Hill Gang” FWIW.

No real point to the above, just thought I’d chime in as it seemed a bit topical!

“… The “Blues” were the creation of a fusion of the innate emotionalism of Africans and their exposure to sophisticated European musical traditions. Nothing to do with slavery….”

Uhhh……what was the CAUSE of that ‘innate emotionalism’ within these Africans, James??…..could it have been….uh….the Africans BEING ENSLAVED by these Europeans??

Music has a way of comforting the miserable, you know….and those enslaved Africans were PLENTY miserable…..

As for slavery as an institution….It has been the means of building civilization in ALL societies from the beginning of time…It’s just that Europeans took the institution to a NEW LOW never before seen in previous history….

But one fact is clear, that practically every society in the world had been slaves to another society at sometime in history. The institution of slavery was universal through much of history. It was seemingly an essential part to the economic and social life of a community (society), and man’s conscience was seldom troubled by it. Both master and slave looked upon it as inevitable. People from all parts of the world were enslaved at one time or another…..

It was 15th century AD Europeans who initiated the association of skin color with the institution of slavery, and as a result, we talk about skin color as if it REALLY does separate humans into different species….thus this ‘white’/’black’/asian’ talk all the time……

Sorry, but RACE is a myth….there is only one race….the human race…..which happens to be different shades of skin color….

Maybe the converse post should be “Why don’t black people listen to good music anymore?”

Please to be pointing me to a great band of the last five years that has black people playing actual instruments and physically singing melodies. TV On The Radio doesn’t count because I am pretty sure they have a white guy in there somewhere.

“Last night, I poured myself a glass of Shiraz and put Charlie Parker on the Bose. It was so relaxing, I wish I had a fireplace.” Listing this activity as one of your favorites is a sure fire way to make progress towards a romantic relationship with a white person.

An “innate” quality doesn’t come from any experiential factor Louie, it comes from within. Black people are naturally more emotionally expressive. Blacks are quicker to laugh, quicker to anger and quicker to cry than Eurasians. As well as the blues Blacks developed joyous gospel music. When the african is down he is down, and when he is up he is up. whites steer a more even path.

Come on, people. Get some perspective. We’ve been nailed good with this one.

You really should do one on music white people don’t like: modern country, hair metal, and (though they’d deny it) R&B like K-Ci and Jojo. Won’t find many white people at their concerts; they’re just not “authentic” enough.

Jules, how the hell you come to the conclusion that there are several races IF you believe that humans are of ONE SPECIES??

Race- Biology a population within a species that is distinct in some way, esp. a subspecies….

Now tell me Jules, do you believe that there are a sub-species of humans?? (PS: skin color does NOT qualify as a characteristic of a subspecies….If it did, then there would be literally several thousands of ‘subspecies’ in the human race)..

My white friends make fun of me because I listen to Hip Hop and my black friends too. I do not care because I know the reason why I listen and I do not feel the need to impress someone with my knowledge of Hip Hop. I even feel Hip Hop betrayed its spirit, since originally it stood for equality.

black person here- I just wanted to tell most of you in this blog to fuck off and get over yourselves. Sometimes I dont think what Tim Wise is doing is the best thing, because now you are AWARE you are privileged, which makes you act more like hypocrites and assholes, which is not surprising, considering the history of the United States.
oh, and by the way- fuck all of your stupid ironic bullshit. grow up. start seeing reality for once and quit hiding behind your oh-so-hip novelty fake cultures. take responsibity and own up to what you are, even if you are prejudiced and a racist, because it’s damned confusing trying to figure out who the decent white people are sometimes.

haha very accurate entry but you also forgot to mention how white people LOVE to say they listen to “underground” hip hop…and how they say artists like Wayne aren’t “real” hip hop artists…when clearly the are alive and living therefore real.

You’ve put your finger on an undercurrent on this blog: “Listing this activity as one of your favorites is a sure fire way to make progress towards a romantic relationship with a white person.”

This is one of many examples of a prevailing subtext: that this blog’s target audience is somehow non-whites who wish to ingratiate themselves with whites. The surface joke is that of stereotyping whites, but the hidden stereotype is that non-whites are mostly interested in taking white people’s money, bedding white women, and generally manipulating “The Man”.

The implication is that non-whites are by definition poor – the world’s eternal have-nots – and are striving to obtain what the white man has. The implication is made by writing this blog as a sort of manual for infiltrating white culture.

It’s brilliant, in a way. Naturally also, as is par for the post-modern course, you can’t tell whether the hidden racism is for real, or a caricature. Is it even racism at all, or is it an honest reflection of a consequence of the world’s power distribution? (As I type, I’m listening to M.I.A.’s “Paper Planes”, with its “All I wanna do is . . . [gunshots] . . . and take your money” chorus.)

In the replies, you can see people alternately appreciating and missing both layers of humor, which makes for good fun, if you enjoy that kind of show.

Ultimately, the writer is (writers are?) raising questions and making people think – or at least espouse opinions. Good work.

“…It’s just that Europeans took the institution to a NEW LOW never before seen in previous history….” Dumbass, read your history, in particular, Roman history. You may learn something. I might add that the Roman Empire was largely in Europe, but I don’t think that was the era of Europeans you where speaking of.

You just keep on feeding nobama little morsels for him to forage on. You do this in addition to showing your lack of education and ignorant ways. Hey man, I feel for you. You just dread being you, and it keeps on getting worse. I know where there is a high bridge.

well look-e here??…..Mr. Buckaroo is trying to show some knowledge now……First you get ‘punked out’ by almost everyone you blog to, and now you are trying to salvage your dignity by provoking me??…..Sorry Buck, but you are DAMAGED GOODS…

This is one blog I find ridiculous. Some whites actually enjoy jazz and the blues because of the complexity of rhythms and ways artists show expression in their work. Charlie Parker is one of the Main Stream artists that whites may know and those who have only one CD by him are posers. Kind of Blue, everyone knows that album, so must a white person like all of Davis’ work? I know that I don’t care for anything he did during his “Electric Period”. I wonder why whites can’t like blues either? Isn’t music all about how it feels when you listen to it? Not because you are black or white? Jerry Garcia got much of his solo/collaborative music from early blues songs and he even did a few jazz works in his own style. So, to really appreciate Jazz and the blues, we must listen to it 24/7? As a white person who loves and listens to both genres of music, I hope that other whites aren’t selling themselves short by being the complete stereotype mentioned above.

My point still is: what happened to black (afro-american) music? When did it all turn to shit with badly timed preset riffs in pro tools and the auto-tune 3000 for terrible singers. From a musical standpoint, most rappers are about as talented as say, a large pile of half turned compost. Sure they can spin a phrase or two, but they can’t sing and they can’t play. Of course you could say that about ol’ Whitey McCrackers who is in the top 20 as well.

It just seems strange to me that after several decades of amazing black *musicians and singers* (ie, they can actually play and sing), the last decade or so has seen a massive decline in the quality of output which I don’t think anyone can deny. Seems to me that shitty rappers are seen as the pinnacle and so kids emulate them, resulting in some kind of super vortex of sucky music.

Let’s hope that some can make it past the event horizon and make some more good music so white people can enjoy it . . .

This guy sure has white people pegged. I like Jazz and old school hip hop. I am much older than my asian girlfriend and I like her hair cut when she has bangs. My favorite holiday is Halloween and I always wear ugly sweaters. I’m just a walking stereotype and I will never be as cool as minorities.

Black is good. I’ve actully been black my whole life and I love it. There isn’t another color in the whole wide world that I would rather be. Some those of color do all this bitching about Louiecoolgato oppression on, etc. Screw em; get a job. i’m just a girl!

It’s possible to enjoy the humor and digs taken in this blog without subconsciously believing that you have to avoid doing anything listed here so as not to conform to some stereotype of whiteness. I understand the impulse that arises to do so whenever I read something I’m “guilty” of on here, but I ultimately shrug it off and take it for what it is – a joke.

Bob said: “…My point still is: what happened to black (afro-american) music? When did it all turn to shit with badly timed preset riffs in pro tools and the auto-tune 3000 for terrible singers….”

CORRECTION: I say: What happened to ALL music? When did it all turn to shit with badly timed preset riffs in pro tools and the auto-tune 3000 for terrible singers???

From the early 90s til now, good music of ANY KIND is extremely hard to find…..people who’ve been listening to different genres of music for a LONG TIME (I’m telling my age with this statement) are disgusted with these weak, retreads of so-called music that comes over the airwaves…..You listen to almost ANY genre (rock, R&B, alternative, rap, etc) and you could easily identify where the new music “borrowed’ shamelessly from the older music….

I guess the old adage is true: ‘there is no new thing under the sun’….Music in general may have run out of new, fresh ideas..

Well, that’s true to an extent. I mean, you would hardly call a band like Wolfmother original (exceedingly derivative), however that doesn’t discount the fact that they could actually play/sing/rock.

As I said they, looking away from top 20 stuff, which is uniformly bland and talentless, regardless of race, they are plenty of good bands out there. Where are the Afro-American bands?

Serious question. I don’t want to listen to them just because they are black, but I want to know what is going on in the scene. Is there even a scene? Do young black people even play instruments anymore?

Hey whities, stop whining. Of course the blog is ridiculous. It is meant to be humorous, not factual. Some are obviously funnier than others. I didn’t really like this one but that doesn’t mean I have to post rants about how I’m White and I legitimately like Jazz and Blues.

“Calling this style of music ‘old school’ is considered an especially apt name since the majority of people who listen to it did so while attending old schools such as Dartmouth, Bard, and Williams College.”

This has to be the finest line I’ve read on this blog. Oh jesus.

Also, it appears that I’m getting whiter by the minute. And I don’t even classify as white…

A boy is born in hard time Mississippi
Surrounded by four walls that ain’t so pretty
His parents give him love and affection
To keep him strong moving in the right direction
Living just enough, just enough for the city…ee ha!

His father works some days for fourteen hours
And you can bet he barely makes a dollar
His mother goes to scrub the floors for many
And you’d best believe she hardly gets a penny
Living just enough, just enough for the city… yeah!

His sister’s black but she is sho’nuff pretty
Her skirt is short but Lord her legs are sturdy
To walk to school she’s got to get up early
Her clothes are old but never are they dirty
Living just enough, just enough for the city…um hum

Her brother’s smart he’s got more sense than many
His patience’s long but soon he won’t have any
To find a job is like a haystack needle
Cause where he lives they don’t use colored people
Living just enough, just enough for the city…

I never thought of music as black or white, its universal. I do know this…Rap, Hip Hop or Hate Whitey music…or whatever that shit is….is sure not music….gold jewry, giant sunglasses, adidas, work boots (has a rapper ever worked? do any of you work? not by the way I pay taxes) pants falling off, derbys, gold teeth, big cars, or rather big chines, hand signals, holding guns sideways, scratchin records on turntables, cell phones, earrings, girls with hairy armpits, cornrows, thug life, being obese, 6th grade dropout, no tune, no harmony, no musical instuments…that is not music. Hey you can have it because it shows your intelligence “yo be like Tupac”. You can have Slim Shady, Nilla Ice and Kid Rock…and the Beastie Boys…ever heard of Miles, Parker, Coltrane, Booker T., Otis Redding, JB, Sly, Sam and Dave, Robert Johnson, Neville Brothers, Jimi H, JL Hooker, Muddy, BB, Freddie, Issac Hayes, Ike and Tina..no I guess not…you just want to use the n word every other breath….oh well, as your Lord Biggie said, you nobody til someone kills you. Wake up.

I am a 50 year old black man with an education, a family, a career and a good life. I never let anybody white or black stop me from succeeding. Call me Unc Tom, but I would rather have worked, suffered and gotten where I am by not quitting than worship, Tupac, Biggie, Chuck D et al….losers, not musicians, haters….who would rather complain than have any kind of thought process….you people pull our people down….try follwing Obamas path instead of Tupacs…its nicer and might make you learn what love is about….loving all people.

It is apparent that both the author AND many of these readers have a very limited knowledge of hip hop. First off, I’d like to point out that while hip hop does have an element which is materialistic, misogynistic, and violent, those same qualities appear in another genre of music that other people like……rock. But since many of the establishment listen to rock, hip hop often finds itself getting skewered for having the same qualities.

First off, jazz is not dying off in the black community, if anything, it’s stronger than ever. Incredibly it’s been transplanted into hip hop via J-Dilla (RIP), Common, and even Kanye West.

And to those who knock on Tupac, and others like him….While I will admit that there are some times when their music is really ignorant, but many times they are spitting true poetry. Tupac’s portrayal of street life is both beautiful and tragic if one would just listen and have a little empathy.

Again and again other forms of entertainment get away with all the same things that hip hop gets criticized for and this article didn’t help.

So where did you get the notion that Tupac, Biggie, and Chuck D didn’t work or suffer for their work? Have you ever actually listened to their work? Those three have written some of the most socially relevant pieces of music I’ve ever heard of. And don’t give me this whole “you people being our people down” thought process. With that train of thought, you are just as guilty as those you accuse because in a way, you are conditioning people to blame instead of taking action.

Those three that you call “losers” did what they did to survive. Let me guess, you think they should have gone to school or gotten a regular 9 to 5? In the neighborhood they lived in, they wouldn’t stand a chance, not with the sub par education system they’re stuck with, or with the dead end entry jobs available to them. Tupac once said that when your surroundings are so bleak and limited in opportunity, then hustling doesn’t seem so outrageous. You should take the blame you place on rappers and place them on the government that systematically forced them into this avenue.

Miles Davis loved to wear outrageous outfits during performances especially after the release of Bitches Brew so how is that different from the way rappers dress?

And where did you get brainwashed into this notion that hip hop is somehow NOT music? Last I heard, rhythm was a musical quality and even an idiot will admit that a rapper has to have a good grasp of it to be able to rap to a beat. And the beats OH THE BEATS! The beats create the atmosphere for the emcee. If the words are the meat, the beat is the potatoes. Listen to the beats done by Just Blaze, J-dilla, and Kanye, and I dare you to say that that isn’t music. Hip hop music is comprised equally of the lyrics AND the beats.

Tell me, beyond what the media told you about Tupac, what else do you know about him? Do you know where he came from, what he had to do to survive, his thoughts on politics. Ever wonder……WHY, he felt the way he felt and said the things he said?

And I know you did NOT just put Eminem in the same sentence as Vanilla Ice! Vanilla was a fraud who did nothing but pretend, Eminem was a master of telling story and very few could spit better than him. Listen to his verse in Renegade, read the lyrics and tell me that doesn’t take skill!

I really don’t get how your favorite musicians are any different from these rappers you dog on. They did drugs, had sex with different women every night, drank all night, and all the same things you disapprove about rappers.

You are more than welcome Hoffa, Im glad to see that you had some mental capability of realizing the error of your ignorant ways. I know that sooner or later the dumb become inlighted. Wisdom is free so you dont have to spend your life savings helping the needy on my behalf, no, use that money to help repair that leaky roof on your cardboard box you live in. Im proud of you SON, actually, I take that back, you have graduated to LIL BOY now, keep up the good work, pretty soon you will be elevated to dumbass. Keep the love in you heart Lil Boy. :)

Hey someone who dont know jack, you mean to tell me that millions of lil white boys and girls who are blasting mad animal zoo sounds out there cars and ipods are wrong, corp. america is wrong for using those songs in all forms of media and commercials. I bet you have some jungle music in your 8track too..LOL, you are a propaga tool, I bet your dumb ass actually believes the crap you wrote. I listen too all music and for you to say that rap music dont fall into the catagory of entertainment is ALMOST as stupid as you. Metal and rap are the two most extremes of music there are, both are intertainment. Sometimes entertainers get caught up in their own lil hype and do something stupid, whether it be going to jail for some stupid charge to biting the head off of live animals. Is that smart, no, but it happens. Anyone who judges music based on the skin color of the performer is an asshole who has little to no credibility. Hope you see the light one day, put alil love in your heart. :)

I had to laugh at you…anyone cool with the term uncle tom is most certainly a self loathing negro. You could have made plenty of points about the lack of musicianship in Tupac for example, but you hit everyone with the broad brush. But hey..you’re 50 and educated…in the vein of Clarence Thomas and his master Scalia. Btw…Barack referred to a Jay-Z lyric during the primaries. I guess he’s “bringing us down” in your opinion.

I find this site funnier and funnier not only for the funny posts but all the funny white people who don’t get what a stereotype is, don’t have a sense of humor, and get offended easily and seem to have to explain that THEY are actually different, not the kind of white that this website talks about. lighten up… this shit is funny… stop explaining yourselves cause that just makes you whiter!

Dear Felicity,
We black people award you the medal of honor for your music listening skills, but the fact that you have failed to evolve is something that did not escape our notice and we hereby take our medal back.
Sincerely,
The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People Music

Dear Riff,
We are all proud of your education. You however, sound like an as*hole. If you are so educated, can’t you recognize irony or satire in the written form? Also, people stop using so many elipses because I find them offensive.

Hey Riff, for someone that is sooooo educated, you sure are closed minded. And you know what they say about closed mined people, they dont expand their horizons, and that they are content in being an IGNORAT dumbass. Your an educated man, you know why I chose that word. I will agree that for the most part, most music today whether from a black, white or any other color artist today is garbage, you cant just brush all artist, especially rap artist into the same catagory. One of my favorite artist is Ray Charles, remember ‘lets get stoned’. im not going to go into a music lesson with you, im just going to say that your entitled to your opinion as well as i am entitled to mine, and black and 50 or black and 10, an unjustified comment is an unjustified comment. Your using only the stereotype to justify your point. Thats really brilliant. Just because you know a hand full of old school artist dont mean you know jack about music. It just makes you a blow hard.

Agreed. I am a white person who was laughing my a$$ off reading this because I felt like I was reading my own biography. I just thought about how many times I’ve uttered the phrase “you know, REAL Hip-Hop”
Seriously, lighten up white people and learn to laugh at yourselves.

Ah… Cute. Really cute. Of course the fact is … Well I won’t get into it. It’s a little too naughty to talk about. But we all know what I’m getting at, don’t we? The truth is commercial hip hop DOES suck and yes it’s true that a majority of black people DO enjoy it. But that’s just like saying NICKELBACK is white people music because a majority of white people listen to crap like that. Dig what I’m saying? Yes the majority of black people listen to bad music (mainstream hip hop) but so do the majority of white people. Mainstream music (white & black) sucks.

As a white man, I have to admit this is absolutely hilarious!! All people like crazy things, and whoever put this in writing has a keen sense of observation!! White people are so funny and these truths prove it. I have a lot of friends who like this stuff, and I have laughed at them often. I am sure things I like are funny as well; we are unique unto ourselves regarding our taste, but its amazing how much its shared and even more amazing how funny it is.

Regarding the music. I am a serious vinyl collector, and have a lot of black music I love. Parker, Coltrane, Miles Davis, Ray Charles, Muddy Waters,Freddy King, Sun Ra, Wille Dixon, Robert Johnson, Marvin Gaye, Staples Singers, King Curtis…and many other artists from their eras. I know who alot of hip hop artists or rappers are, but I do not own any of their material, and probably never will. There is violence in it, but it is in all of the above artists as well. I have listened to the rappers or hip hoppers, and though it is in a different form, they are making statements just like my preferred artists are making. I think music in its basic form is a call from one human to another to be aware or take notice of a human emotion that they will experience somewhere sometime in their lifetime. I can relate to the blues and jazz artists easier, but by listening to rap, I can feel the pain, anger, hurt and joy of their world as well. I think the trick is being open to a different form of delivery of common emotions I share with my fellow humans. By listening and understanding, instead of shunning a different delivery, it will help me further my own life, feelings and compassion for my fellows, regardless of our differences. Does that strike a chord with anybody else?

This is amazing. I have thought the same thing for so long but never put it in writing. White people are such snobs with music, thinking that the only good type of music is the music they listen to themselves. Get off your high horse!

I think the only exception is swing music. During the 1930’s the form of jazz that came to be known as Swing Music was popular with both whites and blacks and had their share of both white and black artists performing the music (Benny Goodman and Count Basie for example) when it was at it’s height of popularity.

I’m using Lander’s definition of “white” here, not the David Duke definition, although I do think Duke is an authentic heretic, which takes guts. He’s not the fake-radical “heretic” that virtually every member of your local Unitarian church will pat themselves on the back for being, while they subscribe to every belief and petty prejudice described on this blog.

tom, i agree with you. i enjoy jazz, blues, rap/hip-hop (both “old school” and new commercial “crap”) because i’m a music lover i basically love stuff from all genres. i know there are pretentious people out there who act like the whites in this article but i am not one of them! maybe my parents though…haha.

My guess: Since black people are raised black they hear all that stuff growning up, so they are uninterested as adults. Blacks show some interest in music whites are not interested anymore, for example Biz Marky sings “Bennie and the Jets”. How about (European) classical music and asians?

Seriously…once Southern Rap hit the radio, Hip Hop died…give me PE or KRS one. An MC with something to say will have more longevity on my iPod than a gold toothed charicature with a diamond studded tank.

There are a ton of black musicians in the rock and metal scenes who are not only awesome, but they’ve completely inspired me to pick up a pair of drum-sticks and an acoustic guitar (though I wanted to do so anyway, because I have my own anti-music-stereotype crusade…long story), the list goes as follows:

Excuse me, Schweppes, but where did you get this statistic? I’m sure in real terms whites are the largest consumers of rap music because most consumers are white. But in relative terms, blacks consume more hip-hop.

Mr. Cow – The posts are the best part! You know what is just hilarious? A lot of the old black music people white people are listening to was “mainstream” at the time. White people, however, are terrified of listening to someone who is currently mainstream like Usher, Brandy, or Christina Aguiliera. No doubt 15 years from now a new generation of white people will be listening to these artists talking about how great Ray J or Mariah Carey was.

I’m white and I like the blues. Not because of any of the reasons you listed above, but just because it’s good. Same thing with rock. It’s good. People who listen to it for the reasons above aren’t necessarily “white”, they’re just posers.

A suggestion to add to you list/blog: this blog. White people like myself love to make fun of/laugh at our own eccentricities, and it gives us an enjoyable feeling of ironic superiority.

Okay…Thanks for being offensive. I’m a white jazz musician…I’ve been playing the music for over 20 years now, because the music is the most difficult to perform, and it was mostly all written when writers/musicians still gave a crap about the music and not just about the money or the ego
(and no, I don’t include “smooth jazz” anywhere in the genre…this music is basically glorified muzak elevator fodder). This is intellectual music…you have to really think about it to understand it…unlike the blatant caveman primordial urge crap that gets put on the air now (example: the song “Put it in my mouth”). I do play lots of other styles…funk, R&B, blues, reggae, house, hip hop (even opened for Common at one of his shows), but I’m always brought back to jazz because it makes you use your heart as well as your brain. Nuff said.

I am white and cant stand any of that ghetto music. It takes absolutely no talent to put out your records. Besides who cares about nigs killing each other – the shit is hillarious – that is why they are stupid!!!!!

Now forgive me if I’m wrong, I am kinda lacking pigment here. It’s just that in my opinion the intended audience of music is whoever’s willing to listen to it and whoever can appreciate the meaning behind it which has very little to do with colour of skin.
If someone would care to get back to me on how wrong I am I’d appreciate it because although I’m white, making me at least part wrong by default, I’m also Jewish so there might have been a grain of truth in what I said. Although it seems only to be the colour of your skin that matters on this page so I’m probably completely wrong

Spoiledwhitegirl, you are about as ignorant as they come. Please refrain from making such idiotic statements and retreat to your cave dwelling from which you come. In addition, you need to study some world history and gain a greater understanding of the African civilizations that taught your ancestors about science, mathematics, utilizing tools, and bathing daily.

Also make note that Jazz is the only classical music art form derived in America and created by “Nigs”. Jazz is also largely based on the art of improvisation, which is noted as a true skill, especially in Jazz music. During the golden age of Jazz, many of the great artists were African American and were often musically imitated but could never be duplicated because of the “Blue Note Theory”. The Blue Note Theory is based on the fact that White jazz musicians had a difficult time playing like African American jazz musicians because the music was not heard the same, and White could not hear the “Blue Note”. This could be true which explains the “lack of rhythm” that SOME whites have when it comes to dancing. White people may simply dance to a different rhythm when hearing the same song.

I think you’re completely right but I mean, what do I know? I apparently don’t fit the appropriate music-listening criteria. Apparently only those lacking pigmentation are allowed to listen to NIN. Shit gets crazy if you have kinky hair and a tan and play “Head Like a Hole.” Wars get started.

But really I think the funniest thing is that you don’t even mention music. That’s OK, I think all white people secretly want to be Jewish anyway, so you can just go on your merry way doing whatever it is you do.

This is so racist but true. I don’t know about older white people and jazz and blues. But every white person at my high school talks about how they are only into “old school rap” and like all they do is go to SamGoody and get like 10 classic hip hop mixtapes.

Don’t think of me as a racist because I honestly feel awful about laughing so hard. If I was white I would truly be offended.

i should have known this was a growing phenomenon from the disproportionate number of white people at the last “real” hip hop show i went too [i knew it was real because it took place in williamsburg].

is yo la tengo underground again? would i be cool if i listened to them again?

I am a white person with a background in classical music. I have been listening to blues since the late 1960’s. Your condescending, ignorant comments do not describe me or any of the people like me that I know.

“What it all comes down to is that white people are convinced that if they were alive when this music was relevant that they would have been into it.”

No, I never thought that ever. I just like the music.

In the last decade or so, there has been a real resurgence of black blues musicians, with quite a few outstanding young performers appearing. If we whiteys managed to preserve a viable market for this art form in the interim, good for us.

If you are not into the music yourself, you just don’t get it. Maybe you should restrict your comments to something you understand.

How much blues have you ever listened to? Did you ever hear Son House or Willie Mae Thornton live, like I have? Are you familiar with Blind Willie McTell, Mississippi Fred or maybe Buddy Guy or Jimmy Dawkins? Maybe if you actually listened to this music for a while, you would understand why it connects emotionally with people all over the world.

There is an implication here that the only thing white people could get from this music is ego gratification. This implies that the music itself has no intrinsic merit of its own, and is extremely demeaning to the many people of the last century who created it.

Yes, I also listen to things like the Brahms German Requiem, and Bartok string quartets. Blues is a powerful artistic medium, and no one should have to apologize for finding satisfaction in listening to it.

YOU IGNORANT NEOCON FUCKS–IT’S NOT CALLED BLACK MUSIC THAT BLACK PEOPLE DON’T LISTEN TO ANYMROE…IT’S CALLED PERSONS OF COLOR MUSIC THAT PERSONS OF COLOR DON’T LISTEN TO ANYMORE WHY DON’T YOU EJUCATE YOURSELFS!!!

This article so funny because it is so true. I was at a Wu-Tang concert last night in DC and 80% of the people there were the whitest people you could find. I mean shockingly caucasian white people. They weren’t even any cool whiteboy types that are good at dressing urban and acting black like the type of white kids you can find in Philly or NYC. There were so many pasty white nerds that looked like Beauty & The Geek contestants at that show. But this not a new phenomenon in American society. I was watching some old footage from the 70’s of James Brown singing “I’m Black and I’m Proud” to a crowd of young white women who were ironically singing along.

Although I think you’re overreacting, I kind of see the point you’re trying to make. The music of my ancestors should in no way be minimalized in order to give people some sort of ego boost. The music itself is significant on its own. ITA with the gist of your post.

Why do people think mainstream music sucks so much? I don’t get it. I like my share of indie music but I cannot imagine listening to it exclusively. Half of the indie/underground music friends and music snobs have referred to me I hated. I don’t get the attack on the mainstream and I believe most people who say that they don’t listen to mainstream music at all are lying. Listening to non-mainstream music does not make you cool.

Because times change and we are trendy people. Also why are you only asking about Black people? White people listen to Britney Spears, Jonas Brothers and other non singing asses and that in my opinion is not “good music”.

My question:

” Why do White people act like they are music authorities on what is good or bad music?”

I think the point you’re missing is that this blog is a satire. (I think) Also, If you re-read your post you may find that you sort of perpetuate the stereo type. Name dropping 17th century type names. Glad you know a couple classical era composers. Instead of jazz, SWPL could have used “classical” music in the article. Quotes because classical is the only word white people know to describe the pieces of art played by symphony orchestras.

grand. truly. i’ve been recently turned on to the site and the world swirling about it and i am intrigued enough to interact. woo-ha!

there’s no way around it. white people exist as a direct contrast to black people in the context of US history. the term is specifically meant to ensure the disenfranchisement of the non-white/black people. ever read the liner notes to the first me’shell album? there’s a quote that points out, to paraphrase, that what distinguishes hip-hop from other african-american musics is that black men were able to pimp along with white men rather than the traditional relationship of whites to blacks in music that is so well typified in Cadillac Records–whites historically pimp black music for personal gain. this is not news.

what is news is the lack of commentary about economic privilege determining the output of music generally and how few of us, white people, act upon the ethical imperatives inherent in the privilege to regular attend concerts, buy albums, travel to festivals? the capacity to accumulate vast musical knowledge is directly related to class and race dynamics that have combined in the US to make “white” = “rich” and “black” = “poor”. thus, in a market system, any musics are targetted to the whites that could buy it. the challenge is to bridge the divide and renegotiate the reality of our concrete lived relationships in our communities and nations to rectify concrete injustices. if black music has anything to say to white people it is that–correct yourself.

which means? generate a world where our simplistic defiintions and stereotypes are replaced by concrete historical reconciliations and lived cultures of common humanity. might be pie in the sky, but as a good white guy… i’m gonna follow that dream.

Have you ever felt yourself compelled to state you like rock, as opposed to mid-80s american art rock? Perhaps then you may understand why he spoke in a generality, as opposed to a rather narrow label. Since they share many traits in common, it is not unusual to refer to the entirety of the classical music spectrum are merely classical- it is, however, understood that this is only a formality used when say one is learning Classical style composition.

it’s different to learn about music from living instead of having to go to college to hear it. funny how i feel like i am fifty years late to actually witness something really happen. incidentally, a week after i discovered a love for Howlin’ Wolf, somebody gave me a fedora.

I wasn’t offended. And had you cared to read my comment you would have noted that I did mention music in the first paragraph. If I had been offended I probably would have sworn abit more. I do disagree with the article though. I also hate the attitude that only oldschool rap is good rap. There’s plenty of good rap being released now.

This web site is very funny, being a Black dude, I find some of this stuff interesting to say the least. Browsing through the site, Blacks and Whites have some of the same interest, but Blacks don’t have the cash to sustain long term relationships with some of the activities they would like to participate in like shopping at Whole Foods, living on the sea shore, reading the N.Y. Times or flying to Europe or Africa to learn about other cultures, even our African heritage. I love jazz and hip-hop, but the blues are dead and boring. Actually, young Whites and Jewish label owners have sustained hip-hop for this long because of the selling and purchasing of C.D’S and concert tickets. If Blacks had to keep hip-hop alive it would have been dead a long time ago. To my White friends, keep hip-hop alive!

I would tell you about your racist self spoiledwhitegirl, but I am a humanitarian and I know exactly what you need. In laymans term, you need a big injection of erection from a non-white source. After a few hours of some hot steamy jungle love, you will be all better. Unlesss…., youve been there and done that and got dumped by the very ghetto “nig” that you now hate. Hahaha. Thats probably the case. Once you go non white, you never go back unless you lost your ghetto pass, then you just shit outta luck. :)

On the contrary ‘socialist’….if Blacks had to keep hip hop alive, it would have been relegated to only Black neighborhoods….i doubt that it would have died out….of course, hip hop artists would NOT be making the money like they are now, also……..black music has ALWAYS survived in all its forms without white support….

As for whites keeping hip hop alive, if you are talking about spreading it outside of Black neighborhoods AND spending money on hip hop (thus hip hop artists would be making money), then you are absolutely correct….as you so correctly stated….

“…To my White friends, keep hip-hop alive!…”

PS: as for your statement….”I love jazz and hip-hop, but the blues are dead and boring….” I would suggest that you re-listen to and read up on the history of blues…..One cannot ignore the FOUNDATION to which popular american music owes much credit to….

Nie piece of work man! I totally agree about this. It has always been like this. Blacks are creating music and white are trying to innovate and industrialize it like they did with everything that was pure. Thats why music nowadays is so poor.

Ok why did this happen to me this summer. I was “debating” a white guy I worked with about the coolness of little lame, I mean Lil Wayne (notice how I spelled out little). I find Weezy aka Lil Wayne wack, overrated and annoying. He thought Weezy was the best thing since I don’t know some obscure “old school” hip hop artist that I’ve never heard of or only heard referenced emerged on the hip hop scene.

Of course he took the time to educate me like only he could on “real hip hop”, I remember laughing in his face. One because I’m like five years older than him and can truly claim to be an 80s baby (<hip hop’s heyday to some) and two sorry to say because he’s white. Not saying he can’t know anything about hip hop but the fact that he was trying to educate me on hip hop was truly comical at best.

I wouldn’t call this hip hop today anything post 91 is nothing more than the trick 97 format generation, You wanna thank white people for that? who during the whole decade of the 80’s downed hip hop and said they couldn’t understand it until a group based la sold 2million lp’s from the trunks of their cars, then white lable heads finally opened up to hip hop why? cuz they could finally define it that’s why.

Impress an older black person with their knowledge? Are you implying that knowledge of crappy pop music is what will impress older black people? What about a discussion regarding science, art, religion? But no it’s knowing about crappy pop music that will impress older black people.

Your writing disgusts me. You are the unwashed taint of a gangbanged crackwhore.

I enjoy Stan Getz. He was a magnificent musician and if you want to listen to a beautiful CD listen to “Focus”.One critic said it was one of the most impressive records ever made. They called Getz “The Sound” and with good reason.
Some people enjoy jazz because they wish to hear good brass, and rhythm. The same reason I enjoy Elizabethan music.

Let it die. Hip hop is the worst most commercialized music out there along with that teeny bopper shit all over the radio. I have a really hard time finding any musicians that I can actually stand to listen to anymore.

and enough of this blacks are poor whites are rich bull shit. rich are rich poor are poor. I am white and I grew up poor. family on wic, food stamps, and had to shop at ames for my $50 worth of school clothes that had to last me all year. pahleaze!

To be completely correct, Wu-Tang, De La Soul, and Del aren’t old school. They’re still making music. But really, what the true thing that white people like (and black people too. It’s ok) is good hip hop. JayZ and Kanye (along with Wu-Tang) are current popular artists who make good hip hop. There are plenty who are current as well, that aren’t commercial (aka just doing for the money. I’m talking to you, superman that hoe) such as MF DOOM, Atmosphere, Hieroglyphics, Murs, Blackalicious, Jurassic 5, Count Bass D, CunninLynguist, I-Phantom, Jedi Mind Tricks, Black Milk, Lupe Fiasco, Madlib, Rhymefest, and Weird Science, just to name a few. This type of music is liked because at least it preaches some sort of message, often positive, or at least just true. They don’t focus on skeet skeeting on a girl’s back. RECOGNIZE!!!

This blog is really funny. I’m black, but I actually like some of the things that supposedly only white people like. I hope I don’t offend any white people by saying that. I’m all about the sea salt, jazz music, and enjoying a nice Shiraz.

I think the real problem with modern black music is that it has become so far removed from the tradition from which it came, with the exception of New Orleans (where jazz is still very much alive in the the black community), younger black generations are quick to dismiss the importance of the older music tradition and therefore never learn how to play instruments and the music forms that evolved from young people learning tradition.

Let’s face it, the more we have to endure Ne-yo and ten other guys who sound just like him, or listen to beyonce try to write a song with a “bridge to nowhere”, the more we will have to realize that the life of American music is slowly being squeezed out.

Oh sure, because Jay-Z, Diddy, Kanye, and 50 Cent are just victims of the white capitalist machine. Their pure black souls have been tainted with white money. If it weren’t for the white devils, they would still be performing in basement parties and driving Geo Metros, known only to a small group of elite hip hop heads. Now they are sucessful and must be shared with the unwashed masses who listen to the likes of Britney Spears and Soulja Boy. Shame on them for selling out to the corporate white people. What gives them the right to whore out their talents to the phony American dream of prosperity and freedom from hunger and want?

Hey runninsheep, You hate listening to black music like you hate listening to your english teacher when it was time to learn how to write. I see what grade you dropped out of in school. The fourth grade was alil hard on ya huh, runninsheep. Maybe you need hooked on phonics, or better yet, hooked on not being a dumbass. You hate being a dumbass but being a dumbass loves you. I see you enjoy having not so loving views on non whites of the black persuasion, hmmmmm. I guess the clan meeting let out early today huh, well bitch, allow me to put alil love in your heart. :)

runninwoof on January 11, 2009 at 2:13 am

“WEED IS TEH JESUS and yes i bought 2 500$ bongs and a 250$ vaporizer and they are my babies! i would never smoke with my kids but man weeds baby weeds be the shitss! and i cant play basketball but whenever i have a black guy (0-4-0 is a code name for black people cuz its the number of black paint for a mercades! FYI) (or any 1 for that matter) around to smoke 1 of my phat ass peeces i can always be sure he will be like deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeem WTF why am i soooo high AND WTF is with this mutha fucken bong! and then i make them rap to techno! and if they dont then i get my shotty and whip on my southern accent and shit starts to get outa hand so they throw up and then i make them clean it while im puttin cigs out in thier sheepish hair”

You feelin kinda tough today huh sheep, you let that wolf clothing get the better of you huh, well no worries, we real wolves can see the bitch in you a mile away and the only black you ever seen was the black on the brothas fist knocking your bitch ass out for trying to act cool. LOL..

For the record, majority of ALL music today is garbage, regardless of what ethnicity made it. But thats a different blog. You better put alil love in your heart sheep, as well as learning to write, we real wolves dont run. RUNNIN SHEEP. :)

In the 60’s and 70’s black music [soul/R&B/funk, whatever…] UNITED black and white audiences. Since the mid 80’s black “artists” have been deliberately DIVIDING their black audience from the white mainstream with messages of hate and oppression. How sad. The fact is that the parents and grandparents of these under-30 African Americans gave these people a chance to succeed but most of them let it go to waste. Race relations today are as bad as they were in the 1950’s but don’t go blaming white folks like me who were born then. We weren’t taught prejudice as kids and if we’re leery of black youth on the street today it’s because of the antaganism that’s being demostrated towards whites.

This item misses the whole point of black music. It is not about race, or even music.

What it IS about is the secret society of confirmed hypocrites (SSOCH). This shadowy organisation helps black ‘artists’ write about the opression of the ghetto, the lack of community values and the white man’s efforts to keep the black man down.

Writing a good song about keeping the black man down requires a healthy amount of reference to treating your wife/girlfriend like a whore or bi-atch, frequent mention of your own substance addiction (Cristal, anyone? It’s the next stepo up from Malt liquor) and of course as much anti-police sentiment as the record company’s formula allows. Mix well and bask in the splendour of the white man’s world – mansions, cars, stupid clothing and tasteless adornments.

God forbid that a successful rapper would re-invest in his commmunity to give kids the chance to get out of the ghetto that he never had. God forbid that his ‘lyrics’ would help those kids develop a grasp of english that would help them get employment, for doing so would be the beginning of the end – educated kids might not actually LIKE hearing about beating down on black “Ho’s” – after all, a black kid’s mother is herself likely to be black. Who would choose to listen to music that glamourises rape and assault on your own mother?

White folk must listen to black music to keep the sales up, thereby helping Mr 50 cent and his ilk to keep the black youth uneducated and repressed. THAT is worthy of a medal, isn’t it, Mr Bush?

“…White folk must listen to black music to keep the sales up, thereby helping Mr 50 cent and his ilk to keep the black youth uneducated and repressed…..”

Well by following your rationale Mike, my question to you is this…
are WHITE PEOPLE buying all this ‘rap music’, as you described, to learn how to start “… beating down on WHITE “Ho’s” – after all, a WHITE kid’s mother is herself likely to be WHITE. Who would CHOOSE TO LISTEN to music that glamourises rape and assault on your own mother?…”

Well it is OBVIOUS that WHITE PEOPLE are paying GOOD MONEY to learn this behavior….and from what we see on the news everyday, white people are actually DOING exactly what you describe!!…..with one BIG DIFFERENCE…..you all pay GOOD MONEY to learn this behavior from these rappers (if I follow your way of thinking)…….AND MR. 50 CENT and all those OTHER rappers that white folk support thanks you for that good money…

And you are correct, Mr. Bush does deserve a medal…a medal for getting white folk to continue to buy the very music you describe in order to support the economy…..but Mr. 50 and all the rest of those rappers are kind of disappointed because you white folk did not buy enough music to keep the economy from collapsing!!…..this upset them to no ends!!!

Next time you generalize Mike, don’t leave your ass exposed with stupid statements…….It might get shot at again….

“…Race relations today are as bad as they were in the 1950’s but don’t go blaming white folks like me who were born then. We weren’t taught prejudice as kids and if we’re leery of black youth on the street today it’s because of the antaganism that’s being demostrated towards whites….”

Well Russ G., you’ve given the perfect example of what PREJUDICE is….

prejudice |ˈprejədəs|
noun
1) preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience

Your very words tell us that the antagonism that makes you leery of black youth IS NOT from personal experience, but rather, a preconceived opinion NOT based on actual experience…

PS: NOT all black youth do not act the same, Russ G., thus by lumping all of them under the same category (saying that their ‘antagonisms’ towards whites makes you leery), you are demonstrating the behavior of MOST WHITES who have issues with black people in general, and young black males in particular…

Thus, you are PROOF that race relations are as bad because of white people holding on to PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS about blacks…

Skin color DOES NOT define behavior, character, or intelligence….when white people begin to believe this, then most of our racial problems will diminish in the US…

Both are creatively dead in the 21st century. Classical music as a living, breathing form of music seemed to be a casualty of World War II. Jazz died in the 1970s. However I wouldn’t say blacks no longer listen to jazz – the black equivalent of the whites who pretend to be connisseurs of classical music (and jazz) still listens to it (or pretends to listen to it), you’re in L.A., go to the Catalina some time and you’ll see plenty of black “cultural elitist” types paying high prices to see jazz there.

and Asian people listen to white music white people don’t listen to anymore. The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Metallica, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd… I mean what kind of a white person listens to those old rock shit? HAHAHA and I know some black people who listen to those shit. Whites>blacks and Asians

Asians do listen to a lot of 80s pop and stuff , then sing it on their karaoke machines. They even practice karaoke in their own house in order to go over to other Asians houses and brag how good they sing Michael Jackson or Tina Turner.

Has anyone thought about WHY there is no 90’s Nite or post 2000 music Nite at ANY clubs or place to go dancing??

Could it be that most music made after 1991 (black and white music) is mostly garbage throw-a-way music??

Has anyone notice that the music industry promotes ‘a sound’, and not music….thus groups and individual singers come and go as fast as the use of toilet tissue?….Post 1991 music in general is about the producers…they write (or rather, take credit for writing) the songs, then they find a ‘singer with a look’, not necessarily a good voice, but a ‘look’….then they begin the ‘hype’ machine via the tv, internet, and radio waves……..

…..the singers are just ‘disposable vehicles’ to deliver the mostly garbage sounds that are on the airwaves these days……they are interchangeable…thus the reason why AMERICAN IDOL is so popular….get fame for a moment, then thrown out after your usefulness has been used up…

And now i read how people here criticize 80s music and before…..you people do not even realize that the reason you are criticizing it is NOT because the music was bad, but rather because you remember how GOOD the music was BUT in your view, the music is OLD…

I’d rather listen to OLD good music, then to be tortured by this NEW garbage music that we hear these days…

What about these powerful voices : Jennifer Hudson ( i bet she will last as long as Aretha , those girls from the church are simply graced by Gog himself …), macy Gray( unique), aussie james morrisson ????

I ask this question with the utmost sincerity: what makes music “good”? People always make the distinction between “good” and “bad” music, but few take time to explain what makes “good” music.

To me, something is “good” if it excels at achieving its purpose. We can differentiate between “good” and “bad” for some things, sports teams. Some teams are better at achieving their purpose (i.e. winning) than others. But isn’t the point of music, at least to the listener, to make the listener happy? How can you say with such conviction that one piece of music will make a person happier than another piece of music?

I consider, as a general statement, ‘good’ music as thematic music that is remembered by more than one generation….and is used again in different forms (remakes, pop culture, etc)…

the ‘THEME’ is the period that the music was popular in at the time…..Now there is alot of garbage music under certain themes, but for the most part people associate the music for a certain time period…and they like to use the music to re-associate themselves to that period of time…

For example….Motown music would be catagorized as ‘good music’, not because of any personal belief, but because of how many generations STILL listen to it, and how it is identified ALL OVER THE WORLD, and how people of all ages and creeds and cultures can relate to it….

As for ‘bad music’….this is a recent occurrence (my opinion, of course)…..after 1991, ‘themes’ are hard to come by…recession?…who remembers hits of the 1990s recession?….late 90s I would say that there was a period of ‘good music’ with the technomusicians (fat boy slim, prodigy, crystal meth, etc) coming on the scene and mixing it with rappers, and girl-girl groups made a return)….but after 9/11….themes were basically gone…..who can remember lots of songs about 9/11? from then until now, music in general, in my opinion, has been squeezed and reprocessed to a tasteless paste…..

People who have a WIDE variety of tastes in music will vouch for me….when we hear a ‘new’ song, almost INEVITABLY we can guess the original song or chord or beat that the ‘new song’ stole from…..there is no such thing as sampling anymore…it is wholesale pillaging of older music and rapping or playing other instruments over, or just repeating a 30sec or longer segment of an older song…..and ALL GENRES of pop music does this now….

I may be wrong, but i am curious as to hear some other opinions on this….

I wouldn’t quite throw in the towel at 1991, I mean there WAS good music being produced. Oh, you meant “RAP” music…well in that case…there never was any talent involved. Just pick five sentences that rhyme, and hum along whilst thumping your finger on the side of a wooden stool. Does anyone think that there will be “rap” groups still making “rap” music 40 years from now? The Rolling Stones have been around sense the early 60’s, and they STILL make good music. No comparison will EVER exist in a “rap” genre….EVER..!!!

The story doesn’t end with the British blues bands’ White version. It’s much more horrific than this. While it was bad enough that the likes of Eric Clapton took to the likes of Howlin’ Wolf, Led Zeppelin paved the way to even further debauchery. According to Robert Plant, lead singer of said mega-rock band, they found that their (mostly White) audience took a liking to the ‘sexual innuendo’ element of the Blues. This element certainly existed among many of the Black Blues musicians, but it eventually became the primary focus of White rock bands. This was obviously due to the fact that their White audience couldn’t relate nearly as much to the ‘hard-life/struggling’ element of the Blues. This has lead to what we now refer to as ‘hard rock’, which is blues based, but emphasizes mainly a White alpha-male sexual prowess theme.

Grunge music is a type of music where talent is not needed …..back in the 60s, garage bands made music that made lots of noise and every once in awhile, one of them make a tune that is a hit….it is (was) the same with grunge music…..two examples:

1960s—the Kingsmen (garage band one hit wonder) re-make hit of Richard Berry’s “Louie Louie”
1990s—Nirvana with their major and biggest grunge band hit “Smells Like Teen Spirit”

While rap may be ‘bad’ in your eyes, paxvox, it has been adopted ALL OVER THE WORLD as a form of music that youth can relate to….Israeli rappers, Palestinian rappers, Turkish rappers, French rappers, etc….

whereas, there is NO SUCH THING as a grunge band that has world wide influence….I’ve heard of somali rappers, but have you heard of a somali grunge band??……No world influence, nor any long lasting shelf life…..thus grunge is in the ‘bad music’ bin…..

PS: Rap music in one form or another has been around in the Rhythm and Blues genre since the late 1940s….Louie Jordan and His Tymphanie 5 may have had the first ‘rap’ song with ‘Beware, Brother Beware’……but if you want a more ‘modern’ beginning of rap, go back to 1979 with the Fat Back Band’s hit rap tune “King Tim”….that’s between 30-60 years of rap….much longer period than the Rolling Stones (which i agree with you as in the ‘good music’ category)

Horace, i do not agree that Led Zepplin and Clapton and other heavy metal bands committed debauchery on blues music…on the contrary, I find their versions of black blues musicians music pretty AWESOME…

As a non-white who grew up listening to the blues and heavy metal (along with many other genres of music), I thought it very funny to see all those white kids who thought that HEAVY METAL was THEIR music, as in ‘white music’, when in reality, they were listening to amplified, electric guitar laden versions of BLACK MUSIC!!

To this day, you cannot convince a metal head that he is listening to black music!!…..

Yep, white people (me included) love Wu Tang, De La, PE, anything RAWKUS, Doom ect. Your right, too-chances are that we will complain about the latest G-unit or dirty South crap & say that we appreciate real hip hop. Then again, in 2000, no white people I knew were proclaiming Silk tha Shocker as the future of hip hop- like lots of black guys I knew.

Interesting point, I didn’t account for longevity in music. Still, I believe that describes one characteristic of music – that is close enough to music basics that it can be accepted by many generations/cultures – but it does not serve as a total evaluation of the music.

Again, this is just personal belief, but I consider the whole discussion placing value on music to be pointless. Personally, I’m comfortable enough with myself that I can listen to music that enriches my time devoted to listening to it – I listen to music I like, not because the artist has integrity or talent according to some.

That said, I think there’s a lot to be said for simplicity in music. No one was simpler than the Ramones, and many consider them one of the most important bands in rock history.

Dude, there’s definitely talent involved in rap. Agreed, the most visible forms of rap may seem a bit… derivative (and I’m really not trying to be an indie advocate for the sake of independence), but there’s lots of rap that takes talent. The best rappers’ lines are clever in terms of what they say and how they rhyme it, and the rhythm is really intricate too. A lot of it is also very political, if that matters to you.

It’s like any unfamiliar music, or anything in the world, actually – it all seems the same in the beginning, but once you learn about it more, you can appreciate the differences.

“All white people believe that they prefer listening to jazz over watching television. This is not true.”

But I don’t believe this at all:

“Every few a months, a white person will put on some Jazz and pour themselves a glass of wine or scotch and tell themselves how nice it is. Then they will get bored and watch television or write emails to other white people about how nice it was to listen to Jazz at home. “Last night, I poured myself a glass of Shiraz and put Charlie Parker on the Bose. It was so relaxing, I wish I had a fireplace.” Listing this activity as one of your favorites is a sure fire way to make progress towards a romantic relationship with a white person.”

“To this day, you cannot convince a metalhead that he is listening to black music”

Yes, this is ironic louie! As far as British blues rock, I do see the other side of the coin. One cannot blame Clapton, Paige, Mayall, Gallagher, etc. for liking the blues. To their credit, they did perform original numbers from various folk blues musicians that did not always center on a sexual theme. One couldn’t expect them to sound like Leadbelly. For a White person to capture the ‘exact’ sound of the original folk blues would be something like trying to make a new Humphrey Bogart movie. It just can’t be done. However, I think there still is the inevitable ironies involved. For one, blues in it’s purest format was when the term ‘the blues’ was used in the literal sense. And that was basically what has been relabeled as “folk-blues” which relegates the original style to a ‘sub-division’ of what many want to consider the Blues which is basically an ‘electric’, and ‘lead guitar solo’ based style. This of course allows for White lead guitar heroes. So consequently, the Blues has been incorporated into the ‘rock and roll’ history books as a mere sub-format/influence. It’s now merely a branch on the rock and roll tree just like punk, techno, jazz-rock, etc.

The Ramones are a continuation of garage bands of the early 60s…now don’t get me wrong, I like Ramones music, but, I believe that their importance is only significant to people like you and I, who knows history behind them….

the sex pistols are the British version of the Ramones, if you want to catagorize them in simpliciity (and minimalistic–my opinion) in music….Of course, groups like the Ramomes, The Pretenders, Richard Void and the Voidoids, etc, got swamped up into the 80s wave of vast varieties of music and sound….

Too bad the Ramones and their sound came near the end of the 70s……BTW, i think grunge music made an attempt to bring back that sound, but pretentiousness was that genre’s downfall—my opinion, of course.

Hello White people, how do you like having a black president so far, dont it feel great. I love having a black prez. I feel so liberated now. Hell, i guess i dont have to move to canada afterall. hahaha. It feel so good being black. We back in black. Lets join hands and sing we shall over come. Pretty soon, we will have a Obamas face on mt rushemore. LOL. wont that be nice. hahaha

No man, I totally agree, but come on, with a name like “run away slave” and making such ridiculous statements like “soon we will have Obamas face on mt rushemore [sic]”, the evidence points to trolling.

Good music is not genre specific. If it hits you on an emotional level, it;s good. For me, that means Cobain, Angus Young, Gza, Kanye, Chesney & lot’s of others. All music has it’s roots in something, but I don’t buy into genres having a race or color. Company Flow or Charlie Pride would probably agree.

Don’t you remember back in the 90’s when we were all soooo embarrassed about the 80’s, how it was a glaring blot on decades of sensible fashion and musical development? Maybe in the long run we’ll come back to that view, but for now it seems the 80’s has been vindicated with the return of leggings and bag shirts and neon. The same thing goes for the 90’s.

Maybe you haven’t noticed but 90’s music *is* beginning to be played in clubs now- because the kids who grew up listening to it are old enough to actually get into clubs. People are ‘so over’ what just happened until it’s been long enough that they can laugh about it and feel guiltlessly nostalgic. Believe me, in the next few years even late 90’s pop will be ironic again. Then it’s all Nsync and Backstreet Boys all over the dance floor.

Well grandpa, don’t take it personally, but it’s pretty much ridiculous and so played out to say that it takes no skill to make rap music. The same was said of jazz and rock n roll in thier times. It’s something old people say when they don’t like something and can’t understand the appeal. If you don’t like it and don’t get it that’s fine but it doesn’t say anything about the quality of the thing itself.

And this is a slight divergence although still relevant, but many linguists have written papers about how ebonics (black american slang) is actually more complex and subtlely meaningful than so called “standard” english. Alot of (white) people percieve that way of speaking as uneducated or ignorant, but actually, they’re the ignorant ones, and ironically, in privileging thier own hegmonic way of speech and disparaging new ways of communicating, they’re actually missing out on layers of meaning that might actually help them understand the contemporary world in a more complex and relevant manner.

I was born in ’84 and so my memory about early 90’s music is hazy, which may be why I’d be totally down for dancing to some of that stuff once in awhile. I was too young to hate it. Of course nothing will ever convince me to dance to that ‘blue’ song, or any of the boy band era schlock, but I was old enough to know better by the time that started happening.

Hey billy with a blank brain, how does it feel to be part of the global minority. How are NON WHITES becoming extinct when all i have to do is stick my massive non white dick in one of your white women and get her pregnat. Guess what, baby wont be blonde hair and blue eyed. Hahaha, look bitch, shut the hell up and go back to the cave that you crawled out of. Maybe one day, after years and years of working at Mcdonalds working for a black teenaged manager, you can upgrade to a box in the gutter. Hell, in 50 years, you will be able to claim trailer parks as a home.

It seems the basic rift between yourself and Chris and me is how we define “good” music. To Chris and me, it’s music that resonates within you. To you, it’s music that is accessible to many people in many different generations. I doubt any of us will convince the other that their own perspective on evaluation is correct, so we might as well not even try.

I don’t really care if you (or anyone) agrees with my belief. I just get so annoyed and offended when people tell other people their taste is inferior or inadequate. (And I’m not saying you do, I just felt like putting my own perspective out there.) Simply put, everyone is entitled to listen to the music they WANT to listen to and not necessarily what they feel they SHOULD listen to, and they should be able to listen to that music without feeling dumb.

Disregarding the fact that “Blue” is fucking awesome, you make excellent points. People tend to connect particularly to the music we heard in our childhood and early adolescence. 90s kids that had classic rock played for them by their parents cling to that, while those that listened to pop radio get nostalgic about that. And because it affects us with nostalgia, we can say it hits us emotionally, a major factor in our preference in music.

Not to use a terribly tired cliché, but we choose our music based on our mind and our soul, not just the former. If that were the case we’d all listen to Mozart and nothing else.

Okay, fuck. Look, everyone who is arguing over race, Obama, and “your massive non-white dick,” just shut the hell up. All of you, whites, blacks, latinos, whatever. Seriously here’s the skinny: White People are no longer as racist as black people tend to think. Whitey ain’t always gonna keep you down. Black people are more racist than white people want to think, but that’s just making them worse. Here’s the best example on this thread “My massive non-white cock in front of your white woman…” Wow, first off, let’s congratulate you on that big ole’ peepee you got. Women really don’t care about your dick size (and no, just because I’m saying this doesn’t mean I have a small dick. I’m just not ashamed of my 8 1/2 inches.) Secondly, this is an ignorant argument. All of it. Shut up. This isn’t funny.

So to white people: Shut up and stop feeling bad for blacks because they were enslaved 140 years ago. It’s over, been over since the 60s, so stfu and stop feeling bad.

Black People: STFU. You often wonder why there are still racist tendencies between your races, it’s because you fuel it with anti white remarks. You don’t see whites trying to keep your culture down. Secondly, again, stfu, there is no correlation between race and penis size, idiots. Only in porn do you find the “BIG BLACK DICK.” It’s a myth, heresay all because of porn. The AVERAGE HUMAN DICK SIZE IS 5 INCHES. THE WORLD’S LARGEST DICK WAS A WHITE MAN’S, AND HE WAS 7 FOOT TALL, AND HAD A 13 INCHER. YOU’RE NOT AS BIG AS YOU THINK YOU ARE. Third, clean up your culture. it breads hate, violence, and stupidity. Go to school, start dressing correctly, speak right, and get your self out of the ghettos (btw, Enigma, seriously shut the hell up. Black people are a GLOBAL MINORITY, you make up 22% of the worlds pop., and it’s quickly dropping. Why? Because of african AIDS and the fact that white people are breeding YOU out. In america, there’s no where near enough blacks to “breed” out white, they make up 83% of our country. So, in other words, even all black men mated with 5 white women. That still means you’d be losing population due to half white/half black children, and black females would not produce true black kids, therefore, your race would quickly die out. So, you should not be bragging about breeding your own race out and how cool it is that you’re killing off your own kind.)
I’m hispanic, my father’s from Puerto Rico, and my mother’s Brazillian, and I have an asian girlfriend, and I fully support all races coming together and being friends, I’m not racist at all, however I will use your stupidity against you. That applies to whites, black, and even my own kind.

So don’t get so sensitive spack….chris has no issues with my OPINIONS….i have no issues with either of you or his opinions….all of what we all say is subjective anyway, but this blog is to express OPINIONS….or have you forgotten this?

opinion |əˈpinyən|
noun
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge

Stop being so SENSITIVE and enjoy the back and forth of the conversations..

I would just like to say something……we DO NOT HAVE A BLACK PRESIDENT! We have a mulatto president. Which is how it works…..anyone who has actually studied history would know that very rarely does a “black” person make it into office. They are almost always mixed. Our first two “black” senators were Blanche Kelso Bruce(white father and coloured mother) and Pinckney B.S. Pinchback who was so light he could pass as white which with what his grandson would go on to do. Even Colin Powell who is extremely light, his grandfather was white enough to pass and did frequently. Open up any book of so called blacks that have made it big or done something important and 9 out of 10 are mixed. Even Martin Luther King’s grandmother was white. So, one could say that this is just as much a white accomplishment as it is a black. And Obama is half African which makes him the truest definition of African American unlike close to 90% of blacks in our country that on average carry 20-25% European genes(stats came out of Color complex). Obama made it because he didn’t use his color as a reason why he should make it, he used his intellect and skills. This I think should be a lesson to all those blacks who think white people keep them down, which by the way I think is crap! I happen to know my family tree and we never owned slaves and we fought to free them and I hate that because I am white there is this assumptions that “my people” kept “their people down”. Blacks owned slaves too!Anyway I got off point, Blacks have just as much opportunity to go to school and get jobs as whites, but rarely do I come across a black person that is trying. And mind you I work a job where I deal with mostly inner city blacks that have never had jobs so perhaps my viewed is skewed. I know that there are some who are working and supporting their families, but it doesn’t always seem that way. So Obama has set a new standard for them…..and I think Cosby is right.

Firstly, I didn’t say there were “issues;” I just said it was a disagreement, which is true. And I’m not trying to tell anyone they’re wrong, I’m just saying we have different but equally valid opinions.

I really do enjoy the civility of these discussions. I’m not telling anyone anyone else is wrong, and no one is telling me that.

I must commend you on making it to the second tier of biggots: the first would say “Damn, a black guy became President!”, where as a member of the second tier would say “He’s not even really black so it doesn’t really count.” You made it J!

Sorry, I’m white – ish – and I hate jazz. I like the blues, but best of all I like Barry White, 4 Tops, Stevie Wonder, they are the masters of feelgood music – so much better than the utter crap that is called Hip-Hop – ie blindingly insignificant rhymes set to blindingly insignificant rhythms.

Music should make you want to be a better man by inspiring, not threaten and sound ugly and cruel.

If one of the person’s parents is black, and the other parent is white… the UNITED STATES of AMERICA laws says that you are BLACK…

If one of the person’s parents is ANY NON-WHITE identification, and the other parent is white, guess what?….US laws says that you ARE A NON-WHITE…

on the US census, there is NO LINE that asks you if you are half-white/half-black, or mulatto….white racist laws were developed deliberately to make sure that the so-called ‘white race’ stays ‘pure’…..and unfortunately, this practice is STILL used in our government today..

It kind of sucks for some whites (who still think racially) to be on the short end of racist laws, doesn’t it?

Dem, you had alot of potential to make serious points, but you had to let your biases show….

#1: why would you argue with anyone over penis size? Unless you’ve seen millions of them and measured them yourself, you cannot claim any stats on this subject

#2: you are correct to say that white people need not feel guilty for past wrongs…BUT….they do need to know that these United States were not built on the talents of ‘dead white men’ only that fills our history books….unfortunately, this history shows things that they do not want to see or hear about, but they NEED TO SEE AND HEAR ABOUT IT because it is AMERICAN HISTORY, not black history or asian american history, or latino american history….all of these are included in american history, and whites HAVE to accept this

#3: you are also correct in stating: “…white People are no longer as racist as black people tend to think. Whitey ain’t always gonna keep you down. Black people are more racist than white people want to think, but that’s just making them worse…”……We are all AMERICANS, and we have to accept the fact that we are ONE people with many differences…..Whites have to let go of their perception of black people, and black people have to give white people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to whites perceptions……Bias, along with bigotry and discrimination, are ACTIONS….what a person does reveals their biases…

#4: You lost some of your credibility when you spoke about AIDS….this is a disease that infects PEOPLE…and you make it sound like it is exclusive to black people…and you know full well that there are brazilians, asians, and puerto ricans that have unfortunately been afflicted with this terrible disease….your racial bias showed profoundly on this subject.

#5: Your statements on breeding (which i believe you made up on the spot to make a point) is profoundly incorrect also…by what you presented, one could conclude that only WHITES and BLACKS breed in america!….sorry, but white people do not exclusively sleep with only whites and blacks….you can figure out the rest…

#6: finally, i am in total agreement with your statement, “… fully support all races coming together and being friends..”
…hopefully this will be the goal of all peoples of the world.

Unfortunately, the author seems to hate grammar. So I guess that white people love bad grammar, as the person who created this list is clearly a white person overwhelmed by his/her own white guilt. After all, white people really do like clever irony.

If it was written by a non-white person, well then that is just reinforcing a bad stereotype and it brings us all down a notch.

There appears to be a lot of ‘clever’ things said on this website that I just disscovered today in a local rag. I’m in an inter-racial family and community. It appears this website was started between friends as a mutual joke. The state of race relations especially among newer immigrants and the rest of the ‘experiment’ is often stillted and I’m beginning to wonder what these ‘jokes’ are for. There are no ‘white’ people. Only those who identify with the concept.
We should be careful what we ‘joke’ about.

Careful, now.Stevie Wonders’ ‘Living Just Enough For The City’ is not so much feel good music. If by hip-hop you mean ‘rap’, let us recall Gill-Scott Heron and Bob Dylan. This site is on the verge of cousing conflict. Let us not threaten, sound cruel and ugly ourselves. Peace.

Actually, white people don’t really like Jazz and the blues, etc. They usually just pretend to like these genres to not sound racist for hating hip hop. Generally when a white person says that they hate hip hop, they will soon follow up by saying that they love Stevie Wonder, Bob marley, or (most commonly) Jimmy Hendrix. This lets you know that they are still totally down with black people.

Also, I’m going to have to disagree about the white people liking ‘Real Hip Hop’ statement. It’s vaguely racist to assume that only white people are smart enough to like golden age hip hop instead of mainstream. I would instead argue that EDUCATED people like old school and political hip hop or ‘Real Hip Hop’, and that these individuals can be of ANY race.

“…The state of race relations especially among newer immigrants and the rest of the ‘experiment’ is often stillted and I’m beginning to wonder what these ‘jokes’ are for. There are no ‘white’ people. Only those who identify with the concept….”

thank you darline for cutting straight to the point on this ‘white people’ stuff…..i agree with you totally……we should be very careful what we all joke about…..

Afterall, a joke is most effective if everyone understands it, correct?…

Loved the book. The site is hilarious, and I’ve been wondering how long it would take people to notice #116. Thing is though, one of my all time FAVORITE forms of “Black” music was really overlooked here. SKA (and nooo Save Ferris and No Doubt don’t count as Ska). Every time I go to a Ska show I’m always one of the only non-white faces in the crowd and it makes me wonder… Do actual Jamaicans even listen to Ska anymore? I don’t know, because it only ever seems to be played/enjoyed by white people these days (with the exception of Hepcat or The Toasters). Having said that, we all need to lighten up for real and learn to laugh at ourselves. Stereotypes wouldn’t be so prevalent if they didn’t have some basis in fact. I’m a Native man and therefore like many of my people I have much ancient wisdom and know of that which I speak, palefaces. So listen up. Or whatever….

I disagree with the opinions that white people cover their fear of being deemed racist by pretending to like blues. I absolutely hate hip-hop, rap, and jazz. I believe I would hate it if I were 15 or 25, rather than my actual age of 62.

But I have been listening to blues since being introduced to it by the British bands, and my tastes range from Albert King back to the Delta blues. I also like dub and reggae.

Actually, nothing beats the blues put out by groups like Cream/Clapton, Zeppelin, the Stones, ACDC (Bon Scott era), SRV, and the new troubadors KWS and Johnny Lang.

And while I will agree that I have always found an iffinity for “roots” blues, I will also say that originators who recorded from way back in Robert Johnson’s time up through the early 60’s present an extremely limited expression of the art. I have a great respect for many of these performers for their dedication to their craft, but let’s face facts, electrification only improved things and the younger set, white or black are far better musicians than the old masters.

When white people say they hate hip hop but then follow with saying they like blues/jazz/whatever, what they are really saying is that what they like is music, and not the noise that hip hop tries to pass off as music.

If there is a question about what any particular person truly likes (as opposed to simply being a poser) the simplest way to determine the truth is to look in their collection. If they say they like blues, and you find that a significant percentage of their collection is indeed blues, then there’s your answer.

Actually those laws were made during the Reconstruction Period, and a great many of them are no longer on the books. And you can now pick the race of your child on their birth cert. when their born, there isn’t a nurse standing there making sure that you pick the right one. So all these light skinned “blacks” running around claiming their the blackest person in the world are only doing that because they(black people) reinforce the one drop rule that was put in place 150 years ago. And as for whites in this country, 75% of whites have NO traceable African DNA. However 85-90% are mixed with Native American and European decent. But I guess if the government allowed me have scholarships for marking only black, and allowed me to go to ALL Black schools, because I would black, maybe I would pick it. However I am not black, and the government doesn’t allow all white schools or all white scholarships, although someone tried in Berkley and was crucified by the media. And WE are the racist?? Let me remind you that whites don’t have all white channels on tv, all white schools, and when a cop shoots one of our people white don’t destroy a city over it. Blacks…..are racist, at least the ones born in the last 40 years. Most of us wouldn’t think about race if it wasn’t thrown in our faces every time a black person can. And for the record I refuse to give in to the one drop rule and mulatto is a perfectly good description word. You all don’t like it cause your stuck on black is black, regardless if their “light bright and nearly white”(your saying not mine). Why should someone who was raised by his white mother and white grandparents disregard them for a black father who left him? This has never made since. And by the way it is black people I keep hearing on the news saying he isn’t black enough. Whatever you all are Hypocrites. And if I am the only one thinking “racially” as you put it I would have needed to reply, but all of you are thinking racially and thats why you got up set a mulatto.

Oh, and one more thing, “It kind of sucks for some whites (who still think racially) to be on the short end of racist laws, doesn’t it?”
Yes it does I would love for the government to give me hand outs because of my colour.

I also think you all are mad, because I did make some points and the only thing you can point out is my word usage.

If one of the person’s parents is ANY NON-WHITE identification, and the other parent is white, guess what?….US laws says that you ARE A NON-WHITE…

on the US census, there is NO LINE that asks you if you are half-white/half-black, or mulatto….white racist laws were developed deliberately to make sure that the so-called ‘white race’ stays ‘pure’…..and unfortunately, this practice is STILL used in our government today..

If you havn’t noticed, this website isn’t about all white people. It takes it’s shots at a certain culture of hipster/douchebag white people that persist even to this day. Based on the other posted items I have seen, the ‘white people’ in question here, are of the type who dislike the spirit and audacity of hip hop and black culture in general. However, because of their coffee shop liberal views, they still do their best to appear not racist, hence the follow up statement: “… but dude, I love [insert name of old black musician here].”
Furthermore, the statement that all hip hop music is bad music is not only untrue, but vaguely racist. It’s an assumption that these people (that is young black Americans) can’t do any better. I could list a whole bunch of “conscious” of “real” rappers for you people to listen to, but I know the truth; it’s not really the lyrical content that bothers you, it’s the beat. If you’re middle aged or older, its understandable that you would say such things because, well, you’re old. But young haters better face it: the real reason you don’t like hip hop is because the cool kids like it and you were never a cool kid. That’s why you listen to you’re obscure indie bands and you’re emo music.. That’s all it comes down to in the end. And I’m not saying that only “cool kids” listen to hip hop, I’m saying that any young person who says that “all hip hop is bad” is probably a huge loser, and should EDUCATE himself/herself about the genre before making a dumbass statement like that.
Peace out y’all.

What’s the take away from this post supposed to be? That only the newest, most currently popular music is the best of all published music? I guess classical music is music dead people don’t listen to anymore…

By the way if “hip hop” is such cool music, then why must it have such a gay name? “Rap” was the first coinage, and still works fine.

I’m white, and I like all music so this doesn’t really apply to me. I think white people actually like PUPPIESSS!!! My friend just got this new puppy and he plays with it by putting a chew toy in his mouth and letting the puppy try to rip it out. It’s kinda funny. Check it out: http://TwitPWR.com/2Z0/

In my circle of White People, aka “Cool White People”, aka Hipsters and Yuppies… Lil Wayne is the new guilty pleasure. Go to any small coffee shop in SF, Seattle, Portland etc and ask any white guy in a faded weezer or reading rainbow T-shirt and corduroy pants on if he has Lil Wayne on his iPod. Answer, YES.

This article is 100% spot on! I spent a lot of time in the 1990s with white people who were obsessed with 1960s ska and rocksteady.

Ironically, when I visited Jamaica in 2007, the vast majority of Jamaicans had no idea who Prince Buster was, nor any interest in his 1960’s era rivalry with Derrick Morgan. For that matter, not too many Jamaicans seemed to care that Rocksteady came before reggae, they had no interest in trojan records and thought “skinhead reggae” was some sort of oddball oxymoron.

Anyone who spends time in Madison, Wisconsin will no doubt have some friends who have LPs with songs that rappers would later sample, rare copies of old cds that no one listens to anymore, and a passion for Stevie Wonder.

Um as much as I find this hilarious and support, however I think you left out the fact that these groups also attract us back packers who turned 30 and miss the 90’s despite our professional degrees and six figure incomes. To be honest, I can’t listen to Lil Wayne and bang out a balance sheet but for some reason Ghost’s Supreme Clientele makes spread sheets flow. It not that black people enjoy the music you named, its actually that KIDS do. People my age can’t take club music serious because we know the templates these “artists” pull from. Theres some age segmentation that needs to be addressed.

I guess this article is half-decent as a satire, which is what I assume it is supposed to be. And I actually agree that a lot of really awkward light-skinned dudes have formed a lot of wack blues bands.

But if the article represents the writer’s actual opinion I’d like to make one contradiction. As a light-skinned person (since that seems to still be so important), if you asked me about “real hip hop” as the writer put forth, my response wouldn’t be anything about commercial music or real music or whatever. My response would be to ask how someone can qualify music of any kind as “real”. Saying something isn’t “real” is a loaded statement and probably an insult to the artist in question, since most of them are probably “real” and so is their music, whether obscure or popular.

Since I have rapped, played drums for rappers and even done security at rap shows, I probably shouldn’t even join this argument anyway. But, just making sure I am being thorough here, I am “white” and grew up with rap and hip hop of all kinds. I did not go to an Ivy League school, but did spend a little time in community college.

This is a great blog and this is oh so true. However, you left out one genre: 1960s soul music, the more obscure the better.

The reason “Shout!” by the Isley Brothers is so popular today is 100 percent due to its inclusion in the movie Animal House. This was not a big hit when originally released. The real-life Boon would only allow songs by black artists on the frat house jukebox.

I’m “guilty as charged” too, but I beg to differ about at least one of your arguments:

“Shout, Part I and Part II” by the Isely Brothers WAS a significant hit when it came out in the early 60s. And it was even bigger as a live-band raveup than as a record-seller.

Animal House undoubtedly made more people of a younger generation aware of it, but there are many of us old white codgers still alive who remember it well. And plenty of musicians who’ve been playing it reguarly for years, since before that movie came out if they’re old enough.

My 28-year-old son has a scholarly knowledge of 60s soul music similar to my enthusiasm for 30s Delta blues. That must prove something…

I have to agree with you on all levelS except the “Commercial Hip Hop” (aka music that black people actually enjoy) statement. Time are turning and black folks are turning away from this commercial bullshit. I for one have always been an old school fool, one because I grew up in it and lived it and 2 because it said something, had a meaning or took a stand. What are we to do now, we can’t fight the power anymore, hell we have a black president. Things are turning back to the go ol’ days of Hip hop and I for one can’t wait. Yeah commercial has come along way and everyone did love it at one point and time, but I think when we lost two of the best in the hip hop game (Pac and Big) we sort of lost our souls as well. As far as white folks holding on to these old genre and reinventing them and making them there own, it’s cool. Shit we’ll come up with some other shit. Naw, for real tho that the beauty of it all, they can keep the party going. For nostalgic sake, put on some RUN DMC and scream MY ADIDAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! btw i’M BLACK.

Well apparently black people don’t enjoy the music of their own culture. The majority of today’s music evolved out of the blues and for black people to ignore their race’s own contributions to musical evolution is just dumb. You can have soulja boy, I’ll stick to soul and funk (thank you older black people).

SoWhite – there you go casting the lot of black people into a realm only experienced by a segment of the young Black Population.

You really think we’ve given up our roots you White People stole from us?

Back during the time of our music being listened to and played by Black people, you would get cast out of your White society by listening to Black music.

You need to have higher hopes for yourself, get out the dumps, hold your head up and remember where we all came from.

I remember when you all weren’t allowed to listen to black music. Disco wasn’t so bad during disco’s time, it’s just that the rockers who stole rock and roll from us during the 50’s and 60’s was to be the music of choice for you white people. You even classified our Rock and Roll music as Devil music. Those who listened to black music back then were cast out of your White Society as well.

Perhaps, you should rent the History of Rock and Roll in order to learn what I’m trying to summarize here. Even Tom Petty gives his, if I may digress to slang, “Props” to old Blues Negros!

Elvis was acceptable to your white community during this period in which I am referring to so that you White People did not have to listen to “Devil Music” ……. And what happened to Rock and Roll thereafter, it turned literally to what you all had created – Devil Music!

Don’t forget to Hold Your Head Up Too as you claim Black People are Dumb and Have Left Their Roots regarding Music!

but mainstream hip hop just… sucks so much ass. the only reason anyone enjoys that shit is because theyre told ‘everyone loves this shit!’ its so goddamned boring.

step 1. make inane drum pattern, supplement with repeated snare rolls
step 2. add cliched synth melody
step 3. put lil wayne on the track to gain immediate notoriety, despite the fact that the lyrics read ‘my voice is a cracked out nasally monotone, heres an irrelevant analogy about a dog and his bone’
step 4. create nonsensical chorus line to be repeated so often that it is drilled into the listeners’ head, causing them to sporadically repeat it aloud in the days after hearing it
step 5. have chorus line read by random black guy and apply heavy vocoder effects so it appears he has mad studio skill

not to mention these dbag producers only get up on fl studio cause they too damn stupid to figure out an mpc or ableton live

I’m seeing some strange analogy between this music genre life-support and the next economic bailout. Both are being kept alive for nastalgia’s sake and in truth things need to work themselves out. If it’s meant to die off, it will- something better (or at least different) will take it’s place.

seriously?
people mean “real” as in not talking about all money and girls you don’t have. “real” as in rapping about stuff that is substantial, stuff that people can relate to. hip hop, i.e. tribe, de la soul, outkast, common, early kanye is real. bow wow and soulja boy are not real. and although that “commercial hiphop/rap” makes you move your feet, it sure as hell doesn’t compare to nas’s illmatic.

Well stink – I guess as a 45 yo legally Hispanic but really, really white woman, I’m officially a parody. Except I don’t know any “classic” hip-hop, just the new stuff with exceptionally filthy language that I personally don’t use (or allow my teenagers to use). I don’t even really know the artists, except Lil Wayne, Jay-z, 50-cent, Eminem… I love the music, some of it is really deep, but mostly just because of the crazy rhythm and great word play.

Well, I will certainly pick up the book. It looks like a great read, however this is definetly the wrong title. It should read “What white liberals like”. As I said, I will be reading this book because it looks like a great read, but this is definetly a daily operating manual for most of my ultra liberal friends.

Really? Because all my friends listen to The Roots, A Tribe Called Quest, Blackstar, Blackalicious, etc… To tell you the truth, based on your comment, it just sounds like you don’t and never did have many black friends. Just sayin.

This is so funny because this is me. I don’t really like the mainstream rap because there’s alot of bs. I don’t care how big your rims are, or how much crack you sell. “Old School Hip-Hop” like KRS One, Tribe, Goody Mob, actually discuss socially relavent topics in their music.

Statistically the majority of all rap listeners have to be white. There is no way that the black population of about 13% of the popuation could support the culture of Rap as a whole. Think about it and let me know if I looking at this in the right light.

White people like to think that they are the only ones who like critically acclaimed but commercially unsuccesful music, and for some unexplained reason, they always claim to discover said music while attending junior high.

People like what they like to listen to. This post is not funny, not accurate, and who gives a shit what you think anyway. Not me! Just checked out this site cause of the cnn article, hope your book drops, stinks and sinks.

While not rap, hip hop or Jazz I do listen to black music blacks do not listen to anymore- Oldies Rock ‘n’ Roll! ;) Smokey Robinson, Dianna Ross, Arethra Franklin, Jimmi Handrix (sorry for any mis-spellings). But that also means I listen to whites: Beatles, Mamas and the Papas, Barry MacGuire, etc.

I would like to say it is a shame that fewer and fewer people listen to that type of music. I really is the original American music and was created, well “created,” by blacks. They took the melody ballads of Europe and blended it with the beat music of Africa, which allowed them to express complex songs in a way that can be danced to. Wonderful invention. :)

OLD SCHOOL RULEZ!!! I dont listen to anything to do with rap or r&b if it was produced after 1990. Back than everyone had there own style and the music was good. Now a days, all rap and r&b sounds the same and it’s CRAP!!!!!!!

spoken like a true whity(regardless of your race)….don’t you realize how ridiculous you sound???….obviously because you know so little about the genre you are unable to even dig below the main stream surface and find fantastic rap or r&b being created all the time…just shows how shallow you are musically. That music was written to express what was going on in society at that time and the hearts and minds of the people writing it…get with the times guy!

As a whitey, Gen X’er, this article is so true. I grew up in Seattle during the grunge to rap/hip hop transistion. The funny thing is that most of my black friends wouldn’t listen to half of the rap that the white guys did (along with the whole hat/clothing ensemble). But, my black friends always have fun laughing their butts off at them (I guess they figured they were straight out of a wierd al video).

So, when you gonna write about the white teen girls that try so hard to appear “ghetto or boss bitchez” (from their parents nice upscale home)???

Your site is catchy… it pokes at stereotypes. I enjoyed the article on an entertainment basis. However, my opinion is somewhat different that yours.

I believe ALL music is relevant. From a P&L standpoint, the non old school music is selling, driving profits for who (?) a group of moraless business men who have no concern for what that “pop” music does to children. Let me not get of topic bc surely this is a whole different converstation (how pop music influences ppl).

Lets look at Soulja Boy for example. This is a young man is being called genius for his musical success. Head VP’s are fighting to get a piece of his puzzle which led to 5 million SOLD… not records, but ringtones. the most popular gave reference to “superman dat hoe”.. which translates “toss that woman when your done with her”. IMO, Soulja boy was just like any other young teen with a ounce of computer know how. He mad some songs on Fruityloops, a program that gets dissed my industry topsellers and used by industry heads without the bankroll, i.e. 9th wonder. His lyrics where everything you could find in a typical southern hit made to jumpstart your energy: Sex, Drugs, Alcohol, Women Bashing, and Male Machismo. Cleverly, but surely not genius, he adds his songs to heavily trafficked websites (thisis50.com, youtube) and falsely put them under other artist names.

I know, whoever wrote this, is possibly more in depth than the article may reveal… Keeping “older” music alive is a role that MUST be filled by somebody… Hip Hoppers do it by sampling, pretty much taking the BEST of song, lyrics or melody, redoing it… making a hit, and NOT showing any love to the original artist or producers! So if it takes a “white initiative to keep the names of these obviously talented and well deserving artists and musicians.. THAN So BE IT… JAZZ ON WHITEY!!!

Indeed, black Music hasn’t the quality like it was in the 60’s, 70’s or 80’s.
Why is a Black Pop Star like Kanye West in need of sampling music from white FrechHouse-Legends DaftPunk?
The Fact ist, the people who stuck to Jazz, funk & soul the most where black Pop-Producers. But now, in these days this formula doesn’t work anymore. Kraftwerk are thousend times more influential for modern pop music than any jazz or soul legend.

In fact, black producers make their music mainly for the white majority, otherwise they couldn’t earn so much money, to them making music is all about making as much money as possible, if they would sell their muisc only to black people, so would never be able to get as rich like they are now

maybe it is satire, and i do agree to the writer of this article that many white people have a faible for old black music styles, but is isn’t true that whites don’t like modern hip hop, which is preferred by black people now

this article only describes the behaviour of a typical white nerd, who is deep into some sort of music.
There is said nothing about average white people. nothing.
Maybe because the writer only has to do with this sort of white people. beyond any reality.

I like the blues… a lot. It’s really ironic that as I was reading this I was listening to the blues station on Pandora.

But I must argue that I do not think the blues fall under the same category of “black” music that old school rap and hip-hop fall under which white people have become so fond of. I don’t think that the blues have the kind of novelty that hip-hop does. For example: most blues songs are not produced to be hits while most hip-hop artists hope for fame and fortune. The blues have feeling and emotion that anyone who is feeling a little “blue” can relate to. Watch The Blues Accordin to Lightin’ Hopkins – it will make you appreciate the [true] blues.

i think what we can get out of all this is that most people listen to commercial pop music but the “white people” described think they are music experts and that black people of today as well as the ‘wrong kind of whites’ are monolithic in their love of new commercial (often) black music and don’t know shit.

Hey there, Ted,
HOW is it understood as applying exclusively to North Americans? Whites are found around the world, and Europe’s where they’re especially found, in large densities. White-skinned people from all parts of the planet crawl the web. It’s been going on for years.
Having first heard about this quirky venture on CBC radio, I actually thought, initially, that it was a Canadian game; the bloggers quickly disabused me of that notion. But I still don’t see how “white people” (as per title of book, site)could ever be interpreted as “Canadian, U.S. and Mexican white people” — not without explicitly stating so. So I’m going to agree with Ynot.

It’s true! I like OLD music a lot. Blues, jazz, classical (‘course that’s got an entry all to itself), Brazilian, Latin American, Caribbean, folk music, Romanian music, all sorts of OLD music.
I don’t think it’s because I am white, though. Most people, of all races, don’t seem to be taking it in so much anymore. Think it’s because MOST folks like what gets pushed, whatever their ethnic heritage, and musical people like what they like, whatever their heritage/race, because it’s good. The Duke said there are just two kinds of music – good, and bad.
But yes, this site was meant for silliness and satire, not for sincerity and discourse. Are ALL the threads turning into stereotyping generalities and racist diatribes ?

You mean Teddy? Sure hope the clarifications above will help calm him, then. But what are the odds?
Does it not seem that this whole list is inciting a fair amount of feeling offended, by people of all shades? Seems such a shame, I’m sure they meant it all in fun (Lander & co.)!

I like this concept, Stuff White People Like. I’m white, live in a very white state, Maine, and I am presently surrounded by whiteness, snow. Having read this entry on music, I immediately put John Coltrane on my Bose, poured myself a Bud, began typing this comment, and just generally felt that life is good.

Holy sh#t – the golden era of hip hop!!!!!!!! I was pumping (and by this I mean put the car radio on 10) Kool G Rap the other day. This is so true. I don’t know any black person that listens to old school hip hop anymore – I am the white man who listens to old school hip hop.

I haven’t bought a new CD in years!!! the last one I bought was from The Wiz, which isn’t in business anymore!

Actually rea, it is you who sounds ridiculous. The crap that is made and played now has nothing to do with bustin’ out of the ghetto and growin’ up on hard times. The crap that is made is only made to made money. Back in the seventies when rap was created, THAT is when people were writing to express what was going on in society and their life struggles. The only recent musicians to create music that reflects the roots of the seventies are people like Tupac, Notorios BIG and Eminem. Get your shxx straight before you dis other people.

Wow, some of you guys are so clueless!! Black people don’t listen to Aretha or Smokey or Jimi or Diana Ross anymore??? You’ve got to be kidding me. CLEARLY a lot of you don’t have ANY black friends, whatsoever.

Well Teddy, I think you are asking too much if you expect anyone reading this to do research before replying to a post.

I read, and then I reply. We are not talking DNA derivatives or the future of Darfur. This is only someone’s views, posted on the net, requiring someone else’s views back.

Furthermore, how is it “sort of understood” that is is only meant to apply to North Americans? By Divine decree? It is neither implicit nor explicit.

I’m part Canadian. I can tell you a lot of what you say does not apply to White Canadians, nor White Hispanics. So perhaps White North Americans is a bit of a strech. As I initially wrote, it should be relabeled Stuff White Americans Like. Although, since anyone born in North America is also an American, if not necessarily a US citizen, then perhaps…”Stuff White people of the USA like” might be much more accurate. Ethnocentrism is never a good thing.

As a previous reply has pointed out, White people are found all over the planet. I live in Europe and the title, such as it is, encompasses me and everyone else on Earth who happens to be White.

If grand generalizations are written, expect grand questions and replies.

Chances are, your ‘old school’ hip-hop was lifted from James Brown, Quincy Jones, Joe Cocker, the Beatles, EW&F, etc. etc.
We can enjoy the music without embracing hip-hop and, hence, look even whiter. We can do it white people!!!

According this pattern that all music genres follow, unless of course they’re saved by white people, the genre that has been on life support the longest is classical music, hands down. It was probably overlooked because it does not fit the mold, as white people invented it.

Actually, I think that most of this is even more applicable to Canadians; by white people the author really means white Democrats, which is what almost all white Canadians are (if you don’t count our fly-over provinces).

this is hilarious…I’m dating myself, but I remember during lunch in high school in 1988 joining a group of my white friends huddled around a boom box listening to Rappers Delight, which was about ten years old at the time. to them, however, it was like it was the latest hit.

Want to revisit the 90’s in a hallucination-like crime epic? this is THE most amazing and important hip hop project to come out in 10 years and is EXACTLY what this post is talking about.
Nas, Wu Tang, Biggie, Jay Z, Sam Jackson, Laurence Fishburne, Delroy Lindo, Joe Bataan… crazy!

This is straight up the funniest thing! I don’t see how its offensive at all! Im black and I totally agree! There is a club here in dallas that plays strictly hip hop from the 80’s and 90’s and its pretty much white people there. And then I find myself getting educated by a white person about “real” hip hop. Also, one night we were at this club and the dj wouldn’t play any rap or r&b and when he asked us if we want to request a song, we asked to hear Lil’ Waynes a milli. He refused to play it but said he would play James Brown??? WTF!!?? My parent wern’t even born yet!! Are you serious!! LMAO!! Much respect to him. I got a few of his stuff in my ipod. But when Im at the club can you please be a little more resent?? I love it though. Its all in good fun. This is a racist country. We might as will laugh about it!

i think it all boils down to censorship. modern rap is always pushing the boundries. some of the stuff that is said today would have landed people in jail 20 years ago, even though we have freedom of speech! its just like television. back in 1960 u wouldn’t dare see people half naked on television, it was unheard of. we still had rated x movies in the early 90s. the point of it all is times change and some areas evolve quicker than others. older white people are being forced to accept the stuff that is put out in the movies and on tv because it is driven by the younger generation; so if they are to accept hip hop, what better place to start than what they knew of when they were younger. its a lot easier to deal with something older and more familiar than to pretend you know about the newer stuff.

most white people hate jazz. i happen to like it because i genuinely like jazz. im the only person that i know that likes it and i get made fun of for it. jazz is performed by actual musicians who actually play instruments. they didnt push a few buttons and rhyme. anyone can rhyme. they also didnt scratch up someone elses record and repeat the words over and over. maybe if people could just not listen to something in stead of hating it i wouldnt be addicted to seeing just how dumb this gets. i know this is “satire” but its still not funny you can make fun of white people sooooo many other ways that are funny but these just arent.

Hey Pat. Id like to hear you rhyme and make it flow well and mix a beat and make it sound good. Go ahead. If it was that simple we would all have record deals. And white people do try to keep old songs alive. You guys need to lighten up for real.

Im not white yet i can say that i listen to the “golden” hip hop. Its a shame that “blacks” and anyone else who would prefer to listen to the shit that is on the radio instead of legends of what is real hip hop. Murs adresses the issue in his second album.

More to the point, everything on this site refers to a painfully specific sub-group of American white people. I would venture that the majority of white people in America don’t even know anyone who fits into whatever this stereotype is. This comes from upper-middle class liberal arts majors hanging out only with people who are just like themselves and making the fallacious assumption that everyone is the same as them and their friends.

For every white guy out there going on and on about “true hip hop”, there have to be at least a dozen who have all of Lil Wayne’s albums.

Yeah black people steal white people stuff even more like antibiotics, cars, houses, science, computers, or just about anything you can think of that was invented in the last few centuries. White people made invented things. But yeah, black people have good music. Thanks for the contribution, and you may take full credit for it.

Wasn’t it Nas who proclaimed that hip hop (because of that current commerical shit) is dead? Maybe white people are onto something with their love of Nortorious B.I.G. and even older school Run DMC (oh lord, now I know I’ve lost all my street cred)

For me though, my golden age of hiphop was New Orleans’ own DJ Jubilee. HE was onto something. And I was that white suburban kid that can now remember being at all those inner city block parties he spun for, even though I most certainly wasn’t. Youtube helps me remember it.

Owning my whiteness and loving it! Oh, and some of that current commerical shit is quite entertaining too, but I’ve found it’s better for me not to wave my fingers in the air when I listen to it.

I love hip hop too and when I go out to majority black clubs, they play the old stuff too but they do it in sections or basically they play the new stuff, then do some other stuff like regae however its spelled then break it down with some old school. We like the old music but white people do tend to play the played out stuff. Like when I go to certain majority white places. They won’t play rap or r&b but if they do, its Young MC bust a move or Tone Loc’s wild thing/funky cold madena in which you will never hear that at a black club lol!

That is hilarious – I don’t even know how I stumbled across this blog, but I’m white, and I’m laughing hysterically. You got us nailed to a T on the jazz – I DO wish I had a fireplace!

But, to be honest – and my age will show – MY old school hip hop goes all the way back to 1984ish with “Luke Skywalker” the cassette tape that got you sent to the principal’s office if you were caught with it in school! Too funny…

No, its not really a bold statement. Modern science comes from the European enlightenment. Technological advancements of Europeans are a direct result of this. Yes, centuries of forced servitude, as you said, must have been hell for those forced to endure it. Its hard to invent things when you are a slave.

I am not arguing the superiority of one culture over another. That’s just ridiculous. All humans have roughly identical DNA. Culture is something you have absolutely no control over. It is something that you are born into. It is larger than yourself and it is shaped by history and nature and circumstance.

All I’m saying is that if you want to go on some tirade about all the stuff white people have stolen, and the atrocities they have committed, fine that’s totally fair and accurate. But then to also be fair, you have to say, well white people did eradicate smallpox, they did figure out how to harness electricity, how to sanitize water, they amassed a huge body of literature and history, and many white people sacrificed their lives in the Civil War. I could go on, but you get the idea.

Hey, your blog is funny, but I stopped on this one. I am not white and I DO listen to old school hip hop….. mostly because this was when music tended to express our true feelings about the world around us. Commercial hip hop is bought mostly BY whites. Black ppl BURN a track if they like it….. but, BUY? That must be non-blacks doing that. The friends that I have JUMP at the thought of going to an 80’s jam that someone is throwing. You were going pretty good there with your blog, but this is not the case in NYC (where I lived all my life). Commercial rappers are big with white audiences, NOT so much Black. Same thing with Obama. We were supporting Clinton (did u all forget?). It wasn’t until black ppl started seeing that white ppl were backing a black candidate that we decided to jump ship. Otherwise, no black ppl would have fully endorsed Obama. He is not Black to me, actually.

Ask your self why someone who is a closeted homosexual (L’il Wayne) is moving towards the more ACCEPTING white people. He knows once the full story comes to light about his life, Black people will just make him go through hell and high water. Anyone notice that he is now making a “rock” album?? Chance? Hardly. They know who’s listening and buying their music…. and it ain’t us, lol. Cause he sucks….. maybe white people like token black kids who front with dreds like they are Marley incarnated….. not.

yeah, but rap music from 1991 and on DOES suck. Most of it is just talentless bragging. That’s old now and completely useless in a sagging economy. HH was meant to keep people from killing each other (turning gangs into battle crews). Now, all it does is promote the same bs. I would much rather listen to Jazz because IT IS THE MUSIC MY ANCESTORS PLAYED….. period.

The European enlightenment was brought about by North African muslims who conquered Iberia and installed libraries and baths everywhere they could find. Most of Europe was in the dark ages when this “European” enlightenment was going on. The Arabs modified ancient Kemetic and Greek ideas and imprved them. THIS is what the Rennaissaince was based upon. Science came from Blacks as the first 100,000 years or so of humanity posited ALL modern sapiens in East Africa.

OK, you were going fine until you made a comment: “If you’re middle aged or older, its understandable that you would say such things because, well, you’re old. But young haters better face it: the real reason you don’t like hip hop is because the cool kids like it and you were never a cool kid. That’s why you listen to you’re obscure indie bands and you’re emo music.”

First off, I am middle aged and I listen to EVERYTHING there is. I was down with the “cool kids” and still hated some of the crap I heard. I live in the Bronx and have witnessed hip hop since I was born 42 years ago. Even growing up I listened to indie bands and obscure stuff… the REASON?….. HH literally TOOK old records and turned them into something new. The fact that kids today do NOT do this anymore is WHY everything sounds annoyingly the same. Everyone is copying everyone else and is NOT being THEIR SELF. ALL HH from the Golden Age is this way….. experimental. Just as white kids may listen to black music. Black kids ALSO listen to white music…. and….. in order to make it more palpable to black people, they will change it up to suit us.

The problem was NEVER HH. The problem is that the racist institutions that run this nation really need to upgrade.

Cosby is an ELITIST who made his a lot of his money off a bunch of “ghetto kids” (Fat Albert) who spoke EBONICS. His castigation of the lower classes of Black Americans is not only hypocritical, but off-target. Cosby represents the upper-most echelons of Black society in the U.S. yet he has the gall to insult those who ARE struggling to be educated and hard-working yet still live in the ghetto as “not doing our part”. Screw Cosby. He does NOTHING for us a Black community except attend award shows and talk a lot of shit. Hillary Clinton showed more love to us as Blacks than did Obama or Cosby or any of those high-falooting Black people who think that pressing our hair and bleaching our skin is going to get us somewhere in life. I don’t aspire to be like Mike (Jackson)…. so, those Black people who think the rest of us are “too ghetto” to invite to their 300-dollar a plate functions….. SCREW U. I work very hard and have just as much education as the next person, yet I choose to buy a house in the inner-city where the rest of Black America lives. Nothing wrong with moving on up, but Bill Cosby and Herndon and all those stupid Black Americans who think that it’s the “denizens” in the ghetto who are ruining our image, get a life. It’s Black people who do things like runs inside sexually-vague “closets”, teach us how to hate our features in favor of looking closer to white that bring us down…….. for the sake of being more conservative (our Republican roots are showing). I am so sick of the upper classes of Blacks who keep acting like we all should be weeded out of existence simple because they and whatever other eugenics organizations they belong to want us to be. They seem to forget that not everyone in Black America is a millionaire, yet that gives them no right to knock the rest of us who HAPPEN to live in Cosby’s bracket of “economically-challenged”.

Yes, I do agree with you that the Semitic Muslims from North Africa and the Middle East played an important role in the European Rennaisance. To what extent, we could argue all day, and I really don’t know enough about the subject anyway. The Rennaisance was a revival of ancient knowledge accumulated by the Greeks, Romans, Jews, and Arabs.

But you are confusing the Rennaisance with the Enlightenment, which was what I was talking about in the OP. The Enlightenment came much later, and without this revolution what we call science and technology today would not be possible.

Few historians would argue, though, that the Europeans played the dominant role in shaping the west, including Africa. You can nitpick all you want on this, but our entire western civilization, our cities, our system of governance, our science and medicine, our capitalist values, our architecture, ect . . . are of European origin.

Europeans did a lot of terrible things, and no its not fair. But I’m against the wholesale dismissal of the values upon which our civilization is built. If you don’t like it, go ahead and live in some malaria infested swamp run by a tribal chieftan.

Why is this ignorant? I didn’t say there is anything bad about living this lifestyle. You inferred it by calling me ignorant. For most of human history, people lived in small ethnic communities run by an alpha male. Some parts of the world still live like this, and some people prefer to live like this. I am simply saying if you want to dismiss western civilization is uniquely evil, corrupt, and exploitative, go ahead and disengage from it. Live in the bush, hunt and gather, and if you get malaria or polio go to your witch doctor’s hut and hope for the best.

BTW: I have a Master’s degree in History from a liberal arts college. How white is that?

OMG i know exactly what you mean and now all these white gangster wanna be boys wear their jeans on their knees practically it’s disgusting I mean do you not just want to walk up to them and say what the hell!!!!

You’re from new york, therefore you have no clue how things works in the rest of the country. I’m sorry, but its incredibly true. I’d tell you to move to the suburbs but you’d only blog about how you hate it, or marry some dude with a box shaped house and then you’d never get online or listen to old school hip hop again.

I just want to let you know that if you don’t think barrack is “100% bonafide grade A negro meat” thats fine. BUT if you had ever lived in the south you’d know that even in the 90’s, let alone the 70’s, halfsies or not, Barrack Obama would be considered a black man, whatever that meant, to whoever was dealing with him. So I’m sure he’d be dissapointed that you said “he’s not black to you.” I’m sure he’s got a lot more perspective on the “black-american experience” than you’ve got.

I have one final question: who the are you, and why are you so great (other than being from new york, city of stone) that we should care what race you consider the president to be?

I’m from Indiana, which I think makes me one of the whitest kinds of white in the world. I’d just like to say that I love rap and I think it makes it even better and funnier because I’m white. There is nothing I love more than rapping along with Shook Ones Pt. 2, Shame On a Nigga (or should I be even whiter and correct the spelling to -er-?), and any other number of songs with lyrics that don’t relate to my lifestyle whatsoever. I know nothing about dumping bodies off bridges in New York and I know nothing about sticking a Wu-Tang sword right through your navel, but God help me I love the music. But just so every non-white person who reads this blog knows, not all white kids are gangster wannabes…those kids went to public school..haha

When I was 11 my friends and I knew all of the lyrics to “I got that Fire” by Juvenile. We consisted of 3 whites, 1 Cuban, all nerds in honors and ap classes at school. I guess we identified with that stuff at some immature level. I mean, when you’re on the streets its all about survival. When you’re in the cafeteria of an overpopulated public middle school in texas, its all about survival too: You need that fire. Ask Juvenile.

I agree…which guy’s ass do I want to pound in the shower today? But you know, because I’m black I’m incredibly homophobic, because homosexuals are faggots. Because us blacks went through our civil rights struggle in the 60’s, we feel it’s our turn to deny others their civil rights. Go America!

In my city, atlanta, Clander annouced in Creative Loafing that he will soon put up a post on Bob Marley. here is the previewed, plagarized for your enjoyment!

“I am actually working on a post about this right now. I say that many colleges around the U.S. are considering just painting the Bob Marley Legend poster on every dorm room wall to save the cost (both financial and environmental) of having white students put it up and then take it down year after year. Advanced white people like Burning Spear or Peter Tosh, but without a doubt, white people like reggae and hope to examine it one day from the safe confines of a Jamaican Resort.”

no seriously, are there any white people like me that LOVE African music, like afropop and world reggae like Alpha Blondy?
and if you guys haven’t heard Ali Farka Toure and Ry Cooder’s collab “Talking Timbuktu” you should check it out.

This blog has a sort of morbid curiosity for me and also makes me a bit sad. I like so many of my generation wanted so much more of those that came after.

Rap at it’s core is the degradation of the black female (we are all bitches and hoes). To use and art form to imbed that image of black women in every American male, heck in the world view of Black women, is horrendous at best.

Many a white person will say they “love” rap, but perhaps at it’s core is the very secret heart of racism. White people really do want black people to go back to the days of being “colored” (even if they don’t know it and can’t really articulate it) and feel much more comfortable knowing that black people really don’t think that much of themselves after all they are capable of depredate their women (the ones that give them life) to such a low level as being a bitch and / or a hoe and make money. BTW if all black women are bitches and hoes doesn’t that mean that the Rappers mama and sisters are bitches and hoes – but I digress.

I love jazz and currently while writing this I’m listening to my Jazz Pandora station. When I was younger I was lucky enough to be able to hear real Jazz – live (not of course the commercial stuff). As with all things there is the good stuff and then there is…well the not so good stuff

Jazz is the only true created American art form and is celebrated all over the world as such, but what the Hell it was created by black folks so you are right it can’t possibly be worth anything, so it should be discarded.

you are right. I think it is the major record labels that like to exploit the kind of rap that degredates women and glorifies violence because it sells, so rap inherently isn’t about degredation, it is the music industry and hollywood that exploit this new form of blackface.

as a black jazz musician and professional i gotta say your article is one of the most stupid ive ever written. stop wasting cyber space with b .. sh.. like this and do something to actually promote art. people who cant do generally sit back and criticize over the glass of wine because they dont have the juice to actually put anything worthwhile out there. jg

as a black jazz musician and professional i gotta say your article is one of the most stupid ive ever read. stop wasting cyber space with b .. sh.. like this and do something to actually promote art. people who cant do generally sit back and criticize over a glass of wine because they dont have the juice to actually put anything worthwhile out there. jg

I got bored with jazz around Junior year. It is so stuffy and atonal. Yeah yeah It’s artistic and complex. Hell, you can at least dance to punk.
Indie Hip-Hop does not degrade or glorify violence. I listen to some Rap and Hip-Hop and I don’t hate women (womyn?). I do not want to return to Jim Crow and all that BS.
You do know that this is a satire site and yes, you need to lighten up.

Ha! Spot on. I bought a Grandmaster Flash Disc this summer and still love it. It does remind me of middle school when it was coming down from NYC and Philly acts were getting noticed. Back then, we Rock & Roll guys thought it was just a fad…….
This site always cheers me up and gives me a huge laugh. Thanks.

I’m a professional jazz,soul,funk musician, and I used to love what “black” music was up until about 1989.

There was still a lot of musicality, wisdom, dedication and commitment to making good, quality music that people could sing to, play and learn from, and grow as musicians from emulating.
You had amazing male singers like James Ingram, Luther Vandross, Stevie Wonder.
You had music being produced by deeply music people, with decades of experience, knowledge and musicality, like Quincy Jones, Earth Wind & Fire….
Deeply funky grooves in the 70s from Rose Royce, Parliament, etc.

Then what the fuck happened, starting circa 1989…
Rappers, gangsta trash, loss of actual musicianship in the so-called ‘artists’…
Musically illiterate punks with small minds and big egos, trashing musicality and replacing it with ‘bling'(artists and record companies).

Suddenly, male singers were disappearing in r&b. It seemed only females singers with t&a (like another commentator mentioned here) were allowed to sing.
Males had to become ‘rappers’ to have any career at all in black music.

I have nothing against female singers, and love a lot of them…again up until about 1989.
Anita Baker, Patti Austin, Patti Labelle,

Beyonce can really sing and she is quite beautiful, but I HATE the “music” she sings to.
It was only once I heard her in Austin Powers 3, singing to a song that sounded suspiciously like “Get Down Tonight” that I could really appreciate her singing talent.

Anyways, music took a serious nose-dive in 1989, and is only starting to show a glimmer of hope now, 20 years later.

Funny, thought-provoking blog, guys. I will buy the book, that’s for sure! The title drew me in because I am brown, and I just knew I would find these heavy comments flowing on and on. People should generally lighten up. Need to see all the stuff white people like, so get the book into shops in Uganda asap!

The reason I would disagree with the “real” argument is because every artist that gets out there writes at least one song that means something special to somebody. The connection in people’s real lives makes it important to them. I would assert that those who spend time talking about how their musical taste is better or more intelligent than others is just taking away time in which they could be enjoying music.