A question about the Shepperd's Rod and Reform Movement (and whatever movement I have not mentioned but may need to know about) - Adventist Online2018-08-14T22:59:33Zhttp://www.adventistonline.com/forum/topics/a-question-about-the-shepperds?commentId=1451550%3AComment%3A537860&feed=yes&xn_auth=noIndividual leaders do make mi…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-03-21:1451550:Comment:5481132009-03-21T15:42:16.277ZN Himhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/NHim
Individual leaders do make mistakes frequently. But if it was not an official act by the General Conference ... then it was not the will of the people. It was the will of an individual leader.<br />
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And NO leader ... not matter HOW powerful ... has the right to disfellowship a member. The right to disfellowship lies within the local board and congregation.
Individual leaders do make mistakes frequently. But if it was not an official act by the General Conference ... then it was not the will of the people. It was the will of an individual leader.<br />
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And NO leader ... not matter HOW powerful ... has the right to disfellowship a member. The right to disfellowship lies within the local board and congregation. remain faithful in the light…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-03-21:1451550:Comment:5477192009-03-21T05:53:22.604Zrommelhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/rommel
remain faithful in the light that you have received, God knows them by name. I am one of those millions who received the adventist faith, I am not one of any so-called offshoots. I want to see them also to comeback. We cannot deny the mistakes of some leaders in our church but we have to remember that we are not warring against flesh and blood (Eph. 6:12) Sabbath is the ony zeall of loyalty and I also believe that tru this commandment God will gatherr us once more.
remain faithful in the light that you have received, God knows them by name. I am one of those millions who received the adventist faith, I am not one of any so-called offshoots. I want to see them also to comeback. We cannot deny the mistakes of some leaders in our church but we have to remember that we are not warring against flesh and blood (Eph. 6:12) Sabbath is the ony zeall of loyalty and I also believe that tru this commandment God will gatherr us once more. 4 Him,
Did you read it very…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-03-19:1451550:Comment:5443022009-03-19T05:12:46.714ZJimhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/JimGale
4 Him,<br />
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Did you read it very thoroughly? The official leadership of the church disfellowshipped Germans who refused to follow the leader's orders during the war. Many of these went to prison and some were executed for refusing to fight in the German military. Conradi was the principal SDA leader who made these decisions. He was president of the European division. That is very "official."<br />
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Look at this:<br />
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There was still the breach between the Seventh-day Adventists and the Seventh-day Adventist…
4 Him,<br />
<br />
Did you read it very thoroughly? The official leadership of the church disfellowshipped Germans who refused to follow the leader's orders during the war. Many of these went to prison and some were executed for refusing to fight in the German military. Conradi was the principal SDA leader who made these decisions. He was president of the European division. That is very "official."<br />
<br />
Look at this:<br />
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<br />
There was still the breach between the Seventh-day Adventists and the Seventh-day Adventist Reform Movement after this meeting [in 1923], which needed to be healed. L.R. Conradi, the president of the European Division, tried to justify the actions of the German Adventist leaders by explaining that the General Conference had “given German Adventists tacit approval.” This tacit approval was to allow German Adventists to work on the Sabbath and bear arms. This explanation only made matters worse between the Adventists and the Reformers. Soon after World War I, the General Conference sent a delegation led by A.G. Daniells to try and heal the growing breach between the Adventists and the Reformers. A.G. Daniells stated that the “German [Adventist] leaders of the church have been wrong, but he also criticized the Reformers for setting up a separate organization and using misleading tactics to promote their views.” In the end, the Reformers were disfellowedshiped from the Seventh-day Adventist Church. The Reformers decided to create their own church where they “refused all military service and insisted on a rigid Sabbath observance”and they would “continue with original teachings and practices of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.” The Reformers no longer believed it was acceptable to be non-combatant during times of war. They believed the Seventh-day Adventists were no longer following the original teachings of the Church. In Gotha, Germany, July 14-20, 1925, “the SDA Reform Movement was first organized, officially, as a General Conference, when the ‘Principles of Faith and Church Order’ were drawn up and the name ‘Seventh-day Adventist Reform Movement’ was adopted.” I agree with your whole post,…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-03-19:1451550:Comment:5442902009-03-19T04:57:43.557ZJimhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/JimGale
I agree with your whole post, Don.<br />
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It is true that when you volunteer for the military, it is different for Sabbath-keepers than it is for soldiers who are drafted. I was drafted and I got away with refusing to work on the Sabbath. There were about 4 of us SDAs in my unit who refused to work on the Sabbath. If we had been volunteers, we would have received a court-martial or, at the very least, an Article 15. But as it was, all they did was have us stay in our room on Sabbaths when we couldn't…
I agree with your whole post, Don.<br />
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It is true that when you volunteer for the military, it is different for Sabbath-keepers than it is for soldiers who are drafted. I was drafted and I got away with refusing to work on the Sabbath. There were about 4 of us SDAs in my unit who refused to work on the Sabbath. If we had been volunteers, we would have received a court-martial or, at the very least, an Article 15. But as it was, all they did was have us stay in our room on Sabbaths when we couldn't leave the barracks.<br />
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When you volunteer for military duty now, they figure that you know that you will have to work any time your commanding officer or NCO requires you to work, 24/7. Thank you for this link. Inte…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-03-18:1451550:Comment:5438562009-03-18T21:27:39.912ZN Himhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/NHim
Thank you for this link. Interesting reading. According to this paper ... it was not the official church (General Conference) that went against the 'noncombatant' status .... but just a group of un-named people within the church. I had not heard this before. I had always thought that the church owed them an apology. But according to this paper ... I would say not.
Thank you for this link. Interesting reading. According to this paper ... it was not the official church (General Conference) that went against the 'noncombatant' status .... but just a group of un-named people within the church. I had not heard this before. I had always thought that the church owed them an apology. But according to this paper ... I would say not. I ran across this article tha…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-03-18:1451550:Comment:5438302009-03-18T20:34:22.194ZBlessed 2 Givehttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/Blessed2Give
I ran across this article that may shed some light on your question concerning the Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement. It is a research paper written in 2002 with footnotes for a History Class at the University of California-Santa Barbara. If you can find them, the books referred to in this research paper may give you even more light on the circumstances that happen during WWI &amp; WWII and the origin of the SDA Reform Movement. Hope this helps. I will keep researching for more info.…
I ran across this article that may shed some light on your question concerning the Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement. It is a research paper written in 2002 with footnotes for a History Class at the University of California-Santa Barbara. If you can find them, the books referred to in this research paper may give you even more light on the circumstances that happen during WWI &amp; WWII and the origin of the SDA Reform Movement. Hope this helps. I will keep researching for more info.<br />
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<a href="http://www.history.ucsb.edu/projects/holocaust/Research/Proseminar/corrieschroder.htm">http://www.history.ucsb.edu/projects/holocaust/Research/Proseminar/corrieschroder.htm</a><br />
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Have a Blessed Day! Many have served as medics th…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-03-18:1451550:Comment:5419142009-03-18T00:47:06.095ZN Himhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/NHim
Many have served as medics though and many SDAs will continue this tradition of our church.
Many have served as medics though and many SDAs will continue this tradition of our church. Dear Raquel, I understand you…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-03-18:1451550:Comment:5418962009-03-18T00:35:03.975Zskyhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/sky
Dear Raquel, I understand your zeal. I was there before. Did you take the time to visit <a href="http://www.hidden-treasures.ca">www.hidden-treasures.ca</a> to take a look at the third booklet on the first row titled THAT WHICH HAS BEEN WILLBE? This is a study of the parable of Matt.22. It is a must read Raquel. I would like your feedback. Please check it out sister and God bless you as you read.<br />
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sky
Dear Raquel, I understand your zeal. I was there before. Did you take the time to visit <a href="http://www.hidden-treasures.ca">www.hidden-treasures.ca</a> to take a look at the third booklet on the first row titled THAT WHICH HAS BEEN WILLBE? This is a study of the parable of Matt.22. It is a must read Raquel. I would like your feedback. Please check it out sister and God bless you as you read.<br />
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sky Well My problem with the Bran…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-03-17:1451550:Comment:5407882009-03-17T05:08:07.559ZJoshhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/Josh
Well My problem with the Branch Davidians (the Rods) is anyone who likes getting up during a sermon in a normal SDA church to interrupt the pastor during his sermon and to push their views of the bible on a whole church during worship is just plain rude and inconsiderate. Some of you know me as a conservative adventists. (old fashion) But I dont agree with (the Rods) feeling it is their duty to beat other adventists over the head with their rods. If they want to help the church then they need…
Well My problem with the Branch Davidians (the Rods) is anyone who likes getting up during a sermon in a normal SDA church to interrupt the pastor during his sermon and to push their views of the bible on a whole church during worship is just plain rude and inconsiderate. Some of you know me as a conservative adventists. (old fashion) But I dont agree with (the Rods) feeling it is their duty to beat other adventists over the head with their rods. If they want to help the church then they need to have bible studys with who ever wants to hear. Not force people to listen to them and beat them until the agree with their point of views. Anyone who trys to force their ideas on you turns people off to God. And that can't be a good thing. Gabriel,
I agree that just b…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-03-17:1451550:Comment:5404182009-03-17T02:31:15.605ZJimhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/JimGale
Gabriel,<br />
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I agree that just because the government tells us to take up arms doesn't mean we have to do it. That is not what Jesus is talking about. He is not saying we should take up arms just because the government says to do it. The principle is if it doesn't violate our conscience, then we should do it. Well, taking up arms to kill for the government-- even when I support the government-- does violate my conscience. The point is that we can't tell other people what their consciences should…
Gabriel,<br />
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I agree that just because the government tells us to take up arms doesn't mean we have to do it. That is not what Jesus is talking about. He is not saying we should take up arms just because the government says to do it. The principle is if it doesn't violate our conscience, then we should do it. Well, taking up arms to kill for the government-- even when I support the government-- does violate my conscience. The point is that we can't tell other people what their consciences should tell them on subjects that are not clearly spelled out in the Bible. I think carrying weapons in war is one such subject that the Bible is not completely clear on. So there is room for believing either way.<br />
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This is why I don't side with Reform SDA. While I wouldn't sign up for combat duty, I believe in your right to do that, and I don't believe it would mean you are committing a sin. That is between you and God. Also, while I wouldn't necessarily be a Police Officer carrying a weapon, I have an nephew who is SDA and he's an armed policeman in AZ. In fact, he was so good with a weapon he has trained cops to shoot. Somebody has to do those things in this wild, sinful, and very dangerous world.