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Re: This team needs to be blown up

The president and gm don't have a clue and have come to the conclusion that no top flight player would want to play for their franchise. They apparently do not know what a difference maker player is. Teams like the Knicks go out and get veteran, proven players to come off their bench. Players that have proven they can get it done in this league.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Just like always there are no easy answers with the Pacers. The answer at this stage is obviously not to blow up the team but Pacergeek does make a point. I have wondered for years why the Pacers hardly ever go after the more athletic, quicker players who can easily get their own shot. We get killed when we play teams like this. Paul George should be in this category but for whatever reason he's just not. I like Vogel a lot but I think a new head coach(and maybe FO) may be a necessity in the near future if for any other reason that it is time for a philosophy change. The team out-performed their ceiling last year and I do give them credit but that's definitely as far as you will get without some shot creators and shooters.

Wow....what I said I kind of still agree with. The Paul George part sounds a little silly now but he's still not the greatest at creating a one on one shot. I could see the writing on the wall that the Pacers lacked shot creators and shooters. Don't think we need to replace Vogel though

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Re: This team needs to be blown up

I like pacergeek because he is a passionate fan who can praise and cheer for the team just as strongly as he can post his concerns and dismays when things aren't going well. And I always respect people who are easily willing to admit when they got something wrong.

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Re: This team needs to be blown up

While I didn't support blowing the team up, I did say we took a step back. Of course I meant that in terms of the bench and Granger's availability. Even now I think Gerald Green and DJ Augustin is a major downgrade from Dahntay Jones and George Hill. I never thought Paul would blow up like this, but I knew both he and Hibbert would be good. I just didn't think it would be last year until they proved it.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Maybe Larry Bird IS walking through that door at seasons end? I mean this sincerely, maybe this is a situation that gets his blood pumping again, lets him have his hand at righting the ship, if it doesn't get corrected on its own.

Two things: Walsh will say, if he hasn't already that they need to see how this team does over time. So, as Pecks says on Odd thoughts today, a fix will have to come from within if it happens this season. Secondly, that doesn't mean they can't and won't hand the wheel back to Larry in May. I think you can argue whether he's the answer going forward or not, but he's as straight forward as you can get.

Blown up is a really tough way to go, in its true sense, plan on sucking for 5 years, not sure the franchise or city can endure that. Now, rearrange the things if they don't get better, absolutely, but it won't be Donnie doing it, maybe KP, but my money is on Bird.

So here we are 4-7 heading out west in a week, after looking awful in all but about 2 or 3 quarters all year. I think they are better than what they've shown. I don't think what we've seen, so far, is the norm. Its too big a drop. I think they start to play tied together lock down defense and have a HUGE upgrade to below average offensively. I'm not chatising for the negative reactions, hell, I'm with you, its unwatchable. I'm just saying lets get through the middle of January and see if they are still standing, things get much more favorable the last few months. Its a marathon, not a sprint. I don't see how blowing it up is an option, unless there's a Lebron or Durant in this AND next years draft, it could mean blowing up the Pacers in Indiana. That, none of us are for.

Good post. You nailed the bolded part

I love those threads, seriously. It lets you confirm who has a record of overreacting the crap out of slow starts

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

1) Danny will not be out for the whole season. If Danny is to be out for the whole season then you can feel free to overwrite most of the things I've said as wrong as I'm counting on Danny to be back on February as it has been stated.

2) The bench will not look like that for the whole season. Ian, Green, DJ and Young need some time to mesh together. It's almost an entirely new bench. You cannot expect results from day 1, imo.

3) Roy will not suck for the whole season. He has been in such slumps again only to emerge again as the Roy we all know and love (and sometimes even better).

4) I agree that teams like the Knicks and the Nets got better. But teams like the Hawks and the Bulls got slightly worse (granted, the Bulls mainly due to Rose's injury). Orlando got a lot worse and Philly is a wild card. If we played as good as we played last year we would have no problem to secure the Central. Of course, we're playing a lot worse than last year. Still, I have faith that we can turn this around and secure a 4th to 6th seed.

Please stop with the "people don't want to hear it" thing. It is annoying and untrue. People don't want to listen to exaggerations and overreactions. They have no problem listening to some actual facts.

1) Brook Lopez being out was a valid problem for the Nets. Shelden Williams is simply not a starter. Johan Petro is one of the worst big men that France ever produced. Their front court rotation (except Humphries) was brutal.

2) Deron getting hurt was a problem as well, of course. The Nets sucked last year for those simple and valid reasons. It makes absolute sense that they are good now.

3) Amare being out does not seem to be such a big problem for the Knicks now, does it? It never was. Amare is still not a good fit with Melo. They will never be a good fit.

4) Woodson is a lot better than D' Antoni for the Knicks. Their last season surge was not a fluke. This Knicks team is not bad at all. But with Danny we can still beat them. Just like we did last year.

Both the Knicks and the Nets are legit this season. But I have no reason to believe that they are any better than we were last year.

Obviously, I was wrong on Danny. He only played 5 games and his injury was more severe than I thought. The bench looked better but it still wasn't good enough so I was wrong about that as well. But I was right about Roy and I was also right that weren't a #7 seed.

All in all, I feel proud about what I wrote. I am very happy that the team was able to meet and slightly surpass my expectations.

Those are nice bumps. They teach us to be careful when overreacting

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

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Re: This team needs to be blown up

Shout out to the sunshiners, or at least those who kept their heads up when the team struggled out the gate last season. 10-15 games in, I admittedly was extremely pessimistic about our prospects. I don't know how you guys managed to have such positive outlooks, but clearly you all were right!

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Shout out to the sunshiners, or at least those who kept their heads up when the team struggled out the gate last season. 10-15 games in, I admittedly was extremely pessimistic about our prospects. I don't know how you guys managed to have such positive outlooks, but clearly you all were right!

Its all about being patient and recognizing that its a VERY long season.

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Shout out to the sunshiners, or at least those who kept their heads up when the team struggled out the gate last season. 10-15 games in, I admittedly was extremely pessimistic about our prospects. I don't know how you guys managed to have such positive outlooks, but clearly you all were right!

It's nice to be a sunshiner and actually be correct in retrospect for once!