03 April 2013

Talking Wood: Andrew Castner

Jake Wrote:

In early March, we
had the chance to talk barrels and brewing with Andrew Castner. Andrew is the
Head brewer at The RAM Downtown
Indianapolis and Fishers locations. Although The RAM is a
national chain, Andrew is given license to brew a number of his own recipes on
the seasonal side. He has won multiple awards locally and nationally including a GABF medal and two Brew Bracket Championships in 2012 (Amber
and Barrel-aged).

HBG:
One of the interesting factors we discovered in talking with Josh and Poff was
how the barrels are prepped. What is your approach?

AC: You know, that is
an interesting one, because it depends on the outcome
I am looking for. With a rinse,
you lose some of the spirit flavor, but it
works really well if you want to push more of the wood characteristics into the
beer. But, if you want to get the bourbon notes with the wood tones in the
background, then you don't rinse it. We learned this lesson with the Oak-Aged Big
Red IPA. I am a big fan of dry hopping in the barrel with our house IPA. The
first run we did, we did not rinse. So, it came out bourbon over oak with the
dry hop. The second run on
that barrel showcased oak and the dry hop. So, if you want that bourbon
character in a big imperial stout, don't rinse the barrel. But, if you want
some oak flavor with a dry hopped IPA, rinse it.

HBG:
How hot does the water need to be for the rinse?

AC: You need to get
the barrel
as close to 180 degrees as possible. Now,
you're not going to kill everything because the water can't get in to
every crevice, but you can make it as safe as possible.

HBG:
We see a few barrels tucked away, how many do you currently have filled? Are
they mostly Bourbon?

AC: We currently have
eight filled and are looking to fill a few more. We have been lucky because we
have a really good relationship with our liquor distributor (Republic National)
[Since the RAM is a Brewpub, they have Liquor on-site]. So, we have mostly
Buffalo Trace, Woodford Reserve, Jack Daniels, Jim Beam. They have been great about partnering with us on events as cross-promotional
opportunities. We have mostly bourbon, but have had some wine barrels too. The Barrel Aged Maibock that won
Brew Bracket was in a local Harrison Bourbon barrel. I was really happy with the caramel, butterscotch,
and vanilla flavors that came through in that one.

HBG:
What projects do you have in the works with the barrels on order?

AC: We are hoping to
take the ReplicAle (a
Strong Ale) from
this Winterfest and put it into four different barrels (Bourbon, Port, Rum, and Cider). We are going to fill those
barrels and release them singularly plus a master's blend. It should be a fun
event. We really like to do educational stuff like comparing the beers young and then aged
like we did with the Ramageddon series in
2012.

HBG:
Speaking of the Ramageddon series, which was awesome, were you the only
location doing that or was it a nationwide thing?

AC: It was just us.
Chris [Knott. Assistant Brewer] was really the brains behind that and did most
of the recipe creation. We not only got to use it as a teaching tool for our
guests, but it allowed us to test some new glassware. Because of that test, the tulip glass has now been adopted
nationally, so not only do we get to push some of our customers, but we can
also help drive the company a bit too.

HBG:
With the eight barrels, are they split up in batches or are they all one-off?

AC: With everything
we do, for now, they are going to be one-off. We just don't have the space. We have cleared out space in our parking garage storage
area to store a couple barrels out there as well. We could get up to
16, but we are space constrained. Also, we don't have room for a forklift, so
we're having to move them around on a dolly.

HBG:
You guys are also storing the barrels vertically. Have you had any issues with
the bungs coming out of the side?

AC: We have to make
sure the bung is in there tightly, but have not had an issue.

HBG:
Is eight barrels about the average you try to keep at one time or is that more
or less than average?

AC: About four months
ago, we were up near 12. We only did one in the first year, but we keep adding to it. The goal is to release a barrel
aged beer each month. Since we do not do carry-out beer sales for these premium products, the barrel
aged beers last a bit longer than they would in other locations.

HBG:
On the note of beers lasting a bit longer on tap, do you think you get hurt at
times by having the stigma of a chain?

AC: You guys know I
am a huge fan of buying local. But, I do think we get overlooked from
time-to-time. My goal is to continue building our seasonal offerings so that
when people ask their friends, "Hey, I am staying downtown, where should I
go?" That people say, "Go to the RAM and check out the seasonal
board." Although we are a national brand, all of our beer is made locally.
We do special
events like tap takeovers and events. Those have been one of our main goals
for the last three years. The
RAM has been really great about granting us the freedom to do those fun things
for craft beer fans.

HBG:
Speaking of special events, I remember coming to the tapping of the homebrew
recipe competition last year. Is that happening again this year?

AC: Definitely. We
started it in 2011 to celebrate session beers. I think we were slightly ahead
of the curve since session beers are still at least a year from hitting the big
time, but that was the goal. Last year we wanted a session IPA. It had to be
less than 5.5% in ABV and have IPA flavor. Our
winner was Tom Wallbank, and the
guys from Tuxedo Park in Fountain Square took 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. This year, itis Rye that we're after. The beer has to be less than 6.5% ABV and contain at
least 20% Rye malt, but it can be any style that you
want. We are lucky to have an incredible judging panel every year.

HBG:
How did you start with barrel aging?

AC: Our first barrel was an Evan
Williams 1792 Bourbon barrel. But, with Republic National, we
have been able to get access to a wider variety. We started three years ago
with a Barrel Aged Brown ale that was released for the 2011 Kentucky Derby. We
released another beer for the 2012 Derby, but the Ramageddon project really
pushed it forward.

HBG:
A common theme we have seen in these interviews is alternating room temperature
with storage in the cooler. What have you learned about that?

AC: it is absolutely
necessary. If you want all of the qualities that the barrel has to offer, you
have to simulate the seasons. As soon as we fill the barrel from the crashed fermenter,
we warm it immediately. We typically want at
least one temperature change and
then it all goes on taste from there.

HBG:
Both Josh and Poff mentioned tasting every three to six months, but going based
on taste. What are your thoughts.

AC: With our setup, we taste around the 4
month mark and adjust from there. I
agree with those guys that you have to trust your instincts as well to determine how often you need
to check the beer.

HBG:
You mentioned earlier how you can never get all of the natural bugs out of the
wood with a rinse. Do you guys have any plans to intentionally sour any beers?

AC: It would be
interesting, but since everything is so compressed in our space here, it isn't smart to take the risk. As long as I am here, we
won't do it. It is just too risky with
possible cross-contamination in mind.

HBG:
What other lessons learned can you share?

AC: One early lesson
was to fill the barrel with uncarbonated beer. You tend to create a large
amount of foam if you have carbonated beer hit the uneven surface of the wood. Also,
with dry-hopping in the barrel, you need to use an air lock or release the
pressure from the bunged barrel slowly. That was a hell of a mess.

PS Andrew, thanks for the hops, we'll have our recipe and demands over to you at some point in the future.

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