I've been running the W8 Consumer Preview for a while now. There isn't a whole lot to complain about except the search feature in the "Start" page, which doesn't find most of the things I want it to. Hopefully that'll be addressed in the finished product.

Do you like using the Windows Key? No? Well tough shiat you're going to learn to love it, because it's now the easiest way to get between the Desktop and the "Start Menu". Oh, you can also do it by finding the hidden menu on the left side of the screen that only appears when you mouse over the 10x10 pixel image I guess.

Install Office? Here, let me helpfully put icons for Silverlight, Office Download Center, Picture Manager, and all that other crap you don't care about right on your Start Menu. You can unpin each of them individually if you like.

Here's an option to display Admin Tools on the Start Menu, aren't I helpful? Yes, I'm going to put every one of them on there and make you unpin the ones you don't want. Or you can just go pin only the ones you want. Once you figure out how to add the Control Panel app to the Start Menu.

Did I mention I put the IE icon right where the Start Menu button has been for the past 20 years on the Desktop? So you'll be opening IE accidentally for at least a month? Wasn't that thoughtful of me? You don't use IE enough, it's really great!

How about these awesome weather/stock/mail/picture widgets I have on the Start Menu by default? Aren't the great? Well I'm going to remove them all if you join me to a domain. No, I'm not going to give you any kind of hint or indication how you might get them back. What are you doing on a domain anyway? Sell out.

Would it have been so farking terrible to give us a choice Microsoft? Traditional Desktop or Metro? That's all you had to do, and I might be throwing this on my main at work to see if there's anything worth getting excited about. Just a little concession that maybe 20 years of user interface isn't worth throwing into the trash because iPad.

jayhawk88:Just a little concession that maybe 20 years of user interface isn't worth throwing into the trash because iPad.

So my sister worked for MS for a few years. Shortly before she quit, she joined the Windows 8 team (as a user computer interactions expert/researcher. I'm not sure I should be saying this, but she did not tell me not to.

I asked her what the F they were thinking and this is what she said...

Here is an anecdote that has become legend in my house. At my ONE meeting with my new Manager at Windows 8, - keep in mind this guy oversaw 28 researchers! 28! - I presented him with a detailed research plan and asked for the resources to fulfill it. He responded with "Well Jennifer, you see here at Windows UX Research, we don't really work with data. We prefer to work with 'hunches'".

She quit weeks later. This brought me to the realization, if it really looks like they don't know what the fark they are doing, they almost certainly don't.

Microsoft is an extremely dysfunctional work environment full of only two motivations. Greed and Ego.

B: WTF Microsoft? WTF Apple? I DO NOT want my desktop OS to look and act like a farking tablet. I want it to look and act like a Desktop PC, and I want my tablet to look and act like a farking tablet, why is that so hard to understand? What's with this "merging" shiat, anyway? a touchscreen layout sucks when you're using a mouse to navigates, but a tiny little Start menu sucks when you're using your fingers. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, quit trying to force the weak one onto the wrong platform, get off your lazy asses and design a different user experience for the tablet than you do for the PC.

Actually, as I look at my bookshelf, I wish to revise my statement about the box art looking like Office for Mac. It looks more like the old box art for Adobe products (Photoshop 3.0 specifically). So 90's Microsoft.

Feepit:I've been running the W8 Consumer Preview for a while now. There isn't a whole lot to complain about except the search feature in the "Start" page, which doesn't find most of the things I want it to. Hopefully that'll be addressed in the finished product.

We've got it on a test box here and had the same results, Meh, not a disaster, but no compelling reason to change from 7 either.

Perlin Noise:jayhawk88: Just a little concession that maybe 20 years of user interface isn't worth throwing into the trash because iPad.

So my sister worked for MS for a few years. Shortly before she quit, she joined the Windows 8 team (as a user computer interactions expert/researcher. I'm not sure I should be saying this, but she did not tell me not to.

I asked her what the F they were thinking and this is what she said...

Here is an anecdote that has become legend in my house. At my ONE meeting with my new Manager at Windows 8, - keep in mind this guy oversaw 28 researchers! 28! - I presented him with a detailed research plan and asked for the resources to fulfill it. He responded with "Well Jennifer, you see here at Windows UX Research, we don't really work with data. We prefer to work with 'hunches'".

She quit weeks later. This brought me to the realization, if it really looks like they don't know what the fark they are doing, they almost certainly don't.

Microsoft is an extremely dysfunctional work environment full of only two motivations. Greed and Ego.

/that's my CSB for the month

Well, to be fair, design IS a lot about 'hunches' and 'intuition', and the design aspect IS important, but it's not the full story for something like an OS, there is a lot of technical knowledge as well.

From what I remember of the //build keynote last year, if your computer has more than a certain number of horizontal pixels on the main display it'll default to classic view. And you can always set it to boot in classic view, unless they're changing it for release. I'm not sure where people got it in their heads that they'll be forced into Metro (or whatever the hell they're going to be calling it). I've used it a little bit on a tablet and it's pretty solid. I'm looking forward to getting one of the Microsoft Slates with the x86 processor when they're released.

Of course, I'm a little biased since I program in C#. Looking forward to seeing what I can make this little OS do.

Mikey1969:Well, to be fair, design IS a lot about 'hunches' and 'intuition', and the design aspect IS important, but it's not the full story for something like an OS, there is a lot of technical knowledge as well.

I don't entirely disagree. The point is, proving the hunches should be a priority investment. Its all well and good to "feel" that something is better, but you should really prove it before adoption.

I own a computer store and have been running win8 to learn it before i have to deal with it daily.. and the sad thing is that without that horrible ungodly bad metro interface the OS is VERY fast. and very nice.. but that UI just is so painful to deal with on a pc:( i could see it being nice on a tablet or phone though

jayhawk88:Would it have been so farking terrible to give us a choice Microsoft? Traditional Desktop or Metro? That's all you had to do, and I might be throwing this on my main at work to see if there's anything worth getting excited about. Just a little concession that maybe 20 years of user interface isn't worth throwing into the trash because iPad.

I told my boss to tell the kid to remove Server 2012 trial and put on "an operating system that I can farking use, or I will walk off site". Doing VPN to that shiat is basically intolerable.

Personally, I reckon the tablet market is going to stagnate pretty soon. They're pretty much a complete product for what people want (browsing, playing noddy games). With a bit of luck, Windows tablets will be a crushing failure and they'll give users traditional or metro.

Mikey1969:Perlin Noise: jayhawk88: Just a little concession that maybe 20 years of user interface isn't worth throwing into the trash because iPad.

So my sister worked for MS for a few years. Shortly before she quit, she joined the Windows 8 team (as a user computer interactions expert/researcher. I'm not sure I should be saying this, but she did not tell me not to.

I asked her what the F they were thinking and this is what she said...

Here is an anecdote that has become legend in my house. At my ONE meeting with my new Manager at Windows 8, - keep in mind this guy oversaw 28 researchers! 28! - I presented him with a detailed research plan and asked for the resources to fulfill it. He responded with "Well Jennifer, you see here at Windows UX Research, we don't really work with data. We prefer to work with 'hunches'".

She quit weeks later. This brought me to the realization, if it really looks like they don't know what the fark they are doing, they almost certainly don't.

Microsoft is an extremely dysfunctional work environment full of only two motivations. Greed and Ego.

/that's my CSB for the month

Well, to be fair, design IS a lot about 'hunches' and 'intuition', and the design aspect IS important, but it's not the full story for something like an OS, there is a lot of technical knowledge as well.

A good design team would also listen to their user base, specifically when the user base is in an uproar over the beta versions of the design.

The user base I talk about is the corporate users. If THEY are pissed over Microsoft's design and saying they will not be upgrading to the new OS, no matter if Microsoft was giving it away for free and Microsoft refuse to listen to them, then Ego and Greed truly are clouding Microsoft's vision.

Seriously, being successful is not only about technical knowledge, hunches and intuition. It is also listening to the feedback from what your beta testers, what your customers you allow to preview the product and what the common user have on your product. Their are many games and other software that can be used as examples of great Technical Know-how, hunches and intuition which failed because the company failed to heed the feedback of their customers.

Who else is going to buy your product if the users reject it?

*IF* Apple was smart, they would immediately discuss a way to capitalize on Microsoft's possible flop of Windows 8. Perhaps the best way they could do this would be to create a version of Mac OS X for PC's which they could have ready for release shortly (within 6 months to a year) after Windows 8 was released. I know, they would have to hurdle the various hardware issues and such but perhaps a specific "This limited hardware is supported for now, and in the next release we will have better hardware support" (this is off the top of my head so I haven't fully thought all this through).

I could see Apple pulling a serious coup on Microsoft if Apple was able to successfully pull this off when people are still fuming over Windows 8. Could backfire if people just stick with Windows 7 and the Mac OS X port is buggy as hell but hell, it has huge potential if it could work.

Apple's too arrogant to be smart, but there would be nothing stopping them, they already have the ability to address Intel chips. It would be interesting to see, that's for sure, and it WOULD be a huge coup, I agree.

pushpinder:Hello, 1987 called any they would like their packaging back.

Christ, Lord, somebody please get Balmer out of there! He is destroying the company.

He really is.

I have a theory that Ballmer, being the obnoxious, ape-like bully that he is, somehow intimidated nerdy little Bill Gates into hiring him, and eventually letting him run the whole show. There's no other explanation. The guy is a TERRIBLE at product development, terrible at PR, and terrible at managing employees.

Books will be written about Ballmer and the fall of Microsoft. Books are already being written, but Microsoft is on the path to being legendary for throwing it all away.

xalres:rom what I remember of the //build keynote last year, if your computer has more than a certain number of horizontal pixels on the main display it'll default to classic view. And you can always set it to boot in classic view, unless they're changing it for release.

Neither of those are true anymore. Windows 8 will always boot into Metro (excuse me, the "Windows 8 UI") regardless of the screen, and they very recently (as in, the past week or so) said that they've removed the (hidden, anyway) option to have the user set the default. It can still be done now, but it requires either 3rd-party software or scripting with the mouse movements.

Another problem is, Microsoft has no collective vision. They are fiercely internally competitive.

One example is the original Microsoft tablet PC. It was pretty good except for one thing, the embedded software that allowed you to convert written text to computer text was very very poorly integrated with other Microsoft products (Office). This looks like dumbass mistake to users outside the company and was a large reason the product flopped.

The truth is, the Office branch did not want to work with the tablet people for fear of them encroaching on their territory. Because Office makes more money, they got their way and the tablet died a horrible death due to poor integration with other Microsoft products.

Icetech3:I own a computer store and have been running win8 to learn it before i have to deal with it daily.. and the sad thing is that without that horrible ungodly bad metro interface the OS is VERY fast. and very nice.. but that UI just is so painful to deal with on a pc:( i could see it being nice on a tablet or phone though

I use something similar as an extension on my start page on Chrome. THERE it works. On a browser, this icon-based navigation is nice, but for my OS GUI, they can kiss my ass. I'll stick with 7, it's awesome, no need to change.

Bschott007:Actually, as I look at my bookshelf, I wish to revise my statement about the box art looking like Office for Mac. It looks more like the old box art for Adobe products (Photoshop 3.0 specifically). So 90's Microsoft.

You might want to point this out to the supposed "art director" who posted above you, apparently he finds it to be absolutely peachy.

Nope. Not even close. I did the public beta of 7 and told everyone how awesome it was, and how there wer no problems. We've been deploying it at work the whole time also. My network admin removed 89 within the first day of testing it though.

Bschott007:*IF* Apple was smart, they would immediately discuss a way to capitalize on Microsoft's possible flop of Windows 8. Perhaps the best way they could do this would be to create a version of Mac OS X for PC's which they could have ready for release shortly (within 6 months to a year) after Windows 8 was released. I know, they would have to hurdle the various hardware issues and such but perhaps a specific "This limited hardware is supported for now, and in the next release we will have better hardware support" (this is off the top of my head so I haven't fully thought all this through).

Apple doesn't want to do that. Remember, they aren't a software company. They are a hardware and media company. Their software (Mac OS X, iOS, the App Stores, Final Cut X, iWork/iLife, iTunes, iCloud, etc) are simply there to help them sell (and have complete control over) said hardware and media. Their goal isn't to have the biggest marketshare (although that's a bonus if it does happen), but to have the most profitable one. They can sell Mountain Lion for $20 because it's designed to run on a very specific set of known hardware, and that any money the lose on its development is more-than-recouped via selling more laptops, iMacs, and even iOS devices, because of the integration features.

Mikey1969:MrSteve007: Two years ago:"I hate Windows 7! I'm going to stick with XP, it does everything I'll ever need."

Nope. Not even close. I did the public beta of 7 and told everyone how awesome it was, and how there wer no problems. We've been deploying it at work the whole time also. My network admin removed 89 within the first day of testing it though.

Yeah, I don't remember very many people poo-pooing Windows 7. It was actually pretty beloved when it hit the testing stages.

But I guess it's harder to paint things in a light that you want without making shiat up, right MrSteve007?

Bschott007:Actually, as I look at my bookshelf, I wish to revise my statement about the box art looking like Office for Mac. It looks more like the old box art for Adobe products (Photoshop 3.0 specifically). So 90's Microsoft.

Mikey1969:MrSteve007: Two years ago:"I hate Windows 7! I'm going to stick with XP, it does everything I'll ever need."

Nope. Not even close. I did the public beta of 7 and told everyone how awesome it was, and how there wer no problems. We've been deploying it at work the whole time also. My network admin removed 89 within the first day of testing it though.

Yeah, I don't remember anyone saying "fark win7".... I DO recall quite a bit of "Fark Vista, I'm sticking with XP." Most everyone was looking forward to win7 around my end.