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Are Hal and Lois bad parents? Or are their children just bad seeds?

lois-

i think that lois has had a negative effect on the developtment of her children, as we've seen francis is basically still dependent in many ways on lois, first of all she sent him to military school when he was sixteen and he never lived at home again and by the end of the series he was just obsessed with her. just finished watching emancipation and he says in the end that he's had 3 and a half years at that school, continuation error?

she's made reese what he is by being too hard on him, in the episode "reese cooks" she should have never taken cooking away from him, thinking about it cooking was the one good thing going on for him, the one thing he could actually do well, and he has to be afraid that his mom will take it away if he does anything wrong. she was also not very good at controlling her son all in all, for example in the episode "evacuation" she just let reese run his own black market basically, if she couldn't take care of her (then four) five children she should have been more diligent from the start and not have so many children.

she's ruined malcolm's life by putting way too much pressure on him, she has huge plans for him and even makes him help the other children with their homework yet she spends HIS grant and in the episode "evacuation" grounds him for doing what she wants him to do, study!

i'm not saying she's ruining dewey's life, he's too young for us to know that but she probably didn't give him the attention he needed.

jamie- ?

but as has been brought up in many episodes the wilkerson's boys have a taste for trouble and she needs to be the way she is with them or they'll just do nothing. in the episode "convention" she says it'll be nice to not yell at anyone for a few days but then immediately yells at a driver on the road, maybe she's just prone to screaming and being all around mean.

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hal-
hal's effect on francis i'm not sure of, francis is already out of the house by 16 but most of the times he's visited at military school he gets francis beat up by the other cadets, except in "mini-bike" he finally understands why francis is a "trouble maker" at military school.

he's basically steered away from reese a bit and has admitted that he's a bit slow and has given up on him, as shown in "flashback" he filled reese with idea's and childhood stories of hal's own youth.

with malcolm he basically just trys to help him through what's basically a very tough time being in his youth and yet being so far advanced intelligence wise, supports him and tries to spend time with him.

with dewey i'm not sure.

jamie - ?

so through it all i think he's had a positive effect on his children and made sure even with a mother like lois they still have a bit of fun.

this is just my opinion and if anyone replies i'm sure they or you'll have yours

Ho, wow do I have a huge problem with this question. While they are not blameless, Hal and Lois are the most loving, most caring, most realistic parental couple on television.

I mean, shit, you've never had your parents take away some you love because you were bad? You've never had your parents put pressure on you about grades because your smart? Or because you need money? You've never been grounded because you and a friend left your sister in the cemetary after dark?

and being all around mean.

Hah!

I'm sorry.

HAH!

As she said in Lois Battles Jamie: "I love you, and I will do anything to protect you and keep you safe, you might grow up hating me but thats fine, as long as you're safe."

Also, for an idea, guys, lets not have this turn into an argument about the Graduation Speech, okay?

Ho, wow do I have a huge problem with this question. While they are not blameless, Hal and Lois are the most loving, most caring, most realistic parental couple on television.

I mean, shit, you've never had your parents take away some you love because you were bad? You've never had your parents put pressure on you about grades because your smart? Or because you need money? You've never been grounded because you and a friend left your sister in the cemetary after dark?

Hah!

I'm sorry.

HAH!

As she said in Lois Battles Jamie: "I love you, and I will do anything to protect you and keep you safe, you might grow up hating me but thats fine, as long as you're safe."

Also, for an idea, guys, lets not have this turn into an argument about the Graduation Speech, okay?

sometimes they're caring and loving, other times they can be quite mean, hal totally gave up on reese in the like the 3rd season and in the 7th season actualy stated that. hal and lois had to spend that 10 grand, malcolm wouldn't need to take care of janitorial duties if they hadn't probably, they were short 5 grand then 8 grand when his other grant didn't come through. lois also grounded malcolm in "evacuation" for doing what she wants him to do, study and who she wanted him to do it with, stevie.

reese was a failure at everything and instead of encouraging him cooking they take it away from him. over pressure him about grades and then when he tries to make an effort he gets grounded for it.

maybe if she hadn't have had 5 kids instead of scaring them into commision she could have given them the love and supervision they needed from the beginning. in "graduation" he was offered a 6 figure job and immediately lois speaks for him and says no. why does lois get to decide his future! why does he have to fit her mould, and they're all like we thought you knew and dewey's the one who can ride by rich and careless, that's just stupidity, it wasn't funny and it wasn't a very good way to go out.

it's not god dewey, it's just my crappy car, although in a larger sense i suppose he could have helped out my career a bit from time to time. thrown a promotion my way once in a while, so you're right maybe it is god! hal

sometimes they're caring and loving, other times they can be quite mean, hal totally gave up on reese in the like the 3rd season and in the 7th season actualy stated that.

So you're saying you have moral superiority to the point where you would have kept cheering on Reese to do his best, and achieve high grades, when he clearly could not do that. Ultimately, Reese gave Hal and Lois no reason for them to support him academically, and showed no inclination to reach any great heights in other interests (cooking, sports, wrestling and the like). What else could they do?

hal and lois had to spend that 10 grand, malcolm wouldn't need to take care of janitorial duties if they hadn't probably, they were short 5 grand then 8 grand when his other grant didn't come through.

True, this was a miscalculation on their part. But, when you have money after being poor? It commands you.

lois also grounded malcolm in "evacuation" for doing what she wants him to do, study and who she wanted him to do it with, stevie.

It wasn't about the studying, it was a metaphor for power. And the struggle to keep that power. Which is what the whole spanking thing was about (which I find extra hilarious, because I don't see a problem with giving a kid a smack on the arse). Even when Malcolm think she has the power, and is able to rise up, it's not possible. Because Lois is flexible, and malleable. She can play the game better than him.

reese was a failure at everything and instead of encouraging him cooking they take it away from him. over pressure him about grades and then when he tries to make an effort he gets grounded for it.

They took the cooking away once, and it wasn't a permanent thing, it a punishment because he did the wrong thing, and it actually worked.

maybe if she hadn't have had 5 kids instead of scaring them into commision she could have given them the love and supervision they needed from the beginning.

Wow. This statement just boggles the mind. You're saying it's all Lois' fault? You're saying she does not love her kids? I'm sorry, but, the f***?

in "graduation" he was offered a 6 figure job and immediately lois speaks for him and says no. why does lois get to decide his future! why does he have to fit her mould, and they're all like we thought you knew and dewey's the one who can ride by rich and careless, that's just stupidity, it wasn't funny and it wasn't a very good way to go out.

You know Gouki, I wouldn't be surprised if I were you if your posts here get edited for its profanities. Its happened to me before. Just thought I should mention it.

Main topic: I would never fool myself in thinking that Hal and Lois are perfect parents. But their intentions have always been basically good, even if their practices have been suspect.

Francis: While Lois has acknowledged that her handling of her eldest child through his formative years was flawed, Francis is now an adult and therefore eminently responsible for his own actions. Any mistakes or stupid gambits in the present and future are on his account and his alone.

Reese: Lack of sufficient encouragement or no, Reese, at the best of times, has not displayed the proper drive to improve himself in certain areas. Whenever he does use his brains, its only for petty revenge trips or childish pranks that kids younger than himself would deem very immature. Much like Francis he needs to grow up.

Malcolm: While Lois' attitude toward Malcolm was often over-bearing and ridiculously arbitary, Malcolm was himself definately not without his flaws. Sometimes displaying a severe lack of common sense and maturity in certain situations, being to enarmored with how certain people percieve him, there are moments when one thinks that perhaps Malcolm should have someone supervising him on a routine basis as long as he keeps making the kind of mistakes that someone supposedly less intelligent than him would avoid. Although Malcolm's occasionally nauseating arrogance is no one else's fault but his own and has only himself to blame for the offence he can cause.

Sports: Either Lois' is bad at teaching sports to Malcolm because her technique is too rigid and high-handed? Or Malcolm is a bad student because he's too full of himself to take good advice? Perhaps its the inevitable personality clashes that prevent proper dialogue between them? Or just maybe that Lois is such a proud athlete, that she subconsciously engineers her charges failures by feeding them overly complex tips and advice. Even at the possible cost of her team's victory. If that was the case, then she would only differ in practice to Hal, whom ruthlessly assualts his own sons in order to stay ahead of the game.

Dewey: At the best of times, Hal and Lois do ignore him. Sometimes there is a justified reason, usually stemming from the misdemeanors of their older children. Nevertheless, whether or not they feel guilty about neglecting his emotional growth through the years, the apparent lack of baby pictures (although I do recall seeing a few framed photos of Dewey on the mantle in certain episodes), the failure to attend parent-teacher evenings etc, they try to convince Dewey that its enough to have clothes on his back, a roof over his head and food in the house and that he should just be grateful for it. He'll often find some way to compensate for his parents lack of attention. I think he's mostly accepted that this may not be a bad thing as whenever they do spare him attention, it somehow turns to sh*t anyway. Like I've constantly bleated about in other posts, Dewey, like his brother, is a genius. Whether Hal and Lois notice that is not certain. They're either only capable of dealing with one of thir kids at a time, or Dewey deliberately hides his intellect if he values his personal freedom instead of having Lois on his case all the time.

i don't "cheer" for reese but i think giving up on your child is really only needed if they're a horrible murderer or so on, reese is just a misguided kid who needs his parents to help him through his issues. time after time in episodes i see a glimmer of maybe a reese to come, not just a hopeless slack, one moment that comes to mind is in "reese's job" where he thinks it's wrong to make a personal transaction and puts the cash back. reese just needs help through his awkward stage of adolescence, in the last episode they show us a bit of what's to come watching him at his new job and even though malcolm and reese are at totally different stages/places in their life they still find the time to talk to eachother.

"when you have money after being poor? It commands you." they didn't have money, they STOLE malcolms money, that's illegal. they try to teach their children maturity but they're not even mature enough to make a good decision regarding malcolm's (the only hope they have) future.

she'll just end up ruining his life by pressuring him too much, from an episode in early season 3 we already hear of her plans for malcolm about girls, she doesn't have the right to "spend" his life just because she ruined hers.

they take the cooking away once, that we know of. whether it worked or not isn't the issue, it's just plain mean they should be nurturing his love of cooking not using it to hold everything else over his head. even lois said that reese won't get many chances in life and when he gets one the mighty hal and lois decide to hold it over his head.

i'm not saying she doesn't love them, i'm stating the obvious and saying there's only one of her and 4-6 of her children, there's no way she can accurately supervise them all so instead she decides to scare them into submission to the point where just seeing her face sends chills up their spines, sure it might work but at what cost.

Last edited by backfence; Jul 24, 2007 at 04:33 PM.

it's not god dewey, it's just my crappy car, although in a larger sense i suppose he could have helped out my career a bit from time to time. thrown a promotion my way once in a while, so you're right maybe it is god! hal

i don't "cheer" for reese but i think giving up on your child is really only needed if they're a horrible murderer or so on, reese is just a misguided kid who needs his parents to help him through his issues. time after time in episodes i see a glimmer of maybe a reese to come, not just a hopeless slack, one moment that comes to mind is in "reese's job" where he thinks it's wrong to make a personal transaction and puts the cash back. reese just needs help through his awkward stage of adolescence, in the last episode they show us a bit of what's to come watching him at his new job and even though malcolm and reese are at totally different stages/places in their life they still find the time to talk to eachother.

Reese may have morals, but he's also "a ruthless thug" (in Malcolm's own words, and Reese agrees with him). Hal and Lois gave up on him academically, because what else could they do? Hal himself called Reese "his guy" numerous times, and while sleepwalking admitted that Malcolm scared him, but he was his favourite--the one most like him. Thats hardly giving up.

"when you have money after being poor? It commands you." they didn't have money, they STOLE malcolms money, that's illegal. they try to teach their children maturity but they're not even mature enough to make a good decision regarding malcolm's (the only hope they have) future.

They made a bad decision. That's the whole point of the episode, greed. Money they should not have and the way it corrupts. They realise they've done a bad thing. And they try to scrape back as much money as possible.

she'll just end up ruining his life by pressuring him too much, from an episode in early season 3 we already hear of her plans for malcolm about girls, she doesn't have the right to "spend" his life just because she ruined hers.

You get that she often says thing like that a) as a subtle jab at Francis, b) no doubt because she doesn't want Malcolm to repeat what she did (as loving and complete as her and Hal are together) and c) because it gets a rise out of him. Makes them angry? You're gonna go on about it.

As for the planning, covered that. Been there, done that. It's been reiterated since the pilot Malcolm could quite easily be the greatest thing to happen to America ever. Lois, Hal, Dewey, Reese, Francis even Piama all see this. Lois and Hal want whats is best. And that, ultimately, is.

they take the cooking away once, that we know of. whether it worked or not isn't the issue, it's just plain mean they should be nurturing his love of cooking not using it to hold everything else over his head. even lois said that reese won't get many chances in life and when he gets one the mighty hal and lois decide to hold it over his head.

I'm trying to find a way to ask about the discipline in your household without sounding like an arse. Cooking was what he loved, no other punishment worked, they took it away. It happened once. It worked. It made him want to be good. As seen by later episodes his cooking clearly had been nurtured.

If we're going to start bringing in "that we know of", well. Hell. For all we know Reese killed a guy. It's just a slippery slope.

i'm not saying she doesn't love them, i'm stating the obvious and saying there's only one of her and 4-6 of her children, there's no way she can accurately supervise them all so instead she decides to scare them into submission to the point where just seeing her face sends chills up their spines, sure it might work but at what cost.

You lost me with the "chills up their spines". She's not tried to scare them. She's tried to (as she said to Piama, or Caroline), "beat them down into submission like a puppy." Not scare them. There is a difference.

Reese may have morals, but he's also "a ruthless thug" (in Malcolm's own words, and Reese agrees with him). Hal and Lois gave up on him academically, because what else could they do? Hal himself called Reese "his guy" numerous times, and while sleepwalking admitted that Malcolm scared him, but he was his favourite--the one most like him. Thats hardly giving up.

They made a bad decision. That's the whole point of the episode, greed. Money they should not have and the way it corrupts. They realise they've done a bad thing. And they try to scrape back as much money as possible.

You get that she often says thing like that a) as a subtle jab at Francis, b) no doubt because she doesn't want Malcolm to repeat what she did (as loving and complete as her and Hal are together) and c) because it gets a rise out of him. Makes them angry? You're gonna go on about it.

As for the planning, covered that. Been there, done that. It's been reiterated since the pilot Malcolm could quite easily be the greatest thing to happen to America ever. Lois, Hal, Dewey, Reese, Francis even Piama all see this. Lois and Hal want whats is best. And that, ultimately, is.

I'm trying to find a way to ask about the discipline in your household without sounding like an arse. Cooking was what he loved, no other punishment worked, they took it away. It happened once. It worked. It made him want to be good. As seen by later episodes his cooking clearly had been nurtured.

If we're going to start bringing in "that we know of", well. Hell. For all we know Reese killed a guy. It's just a slippery slope.

You lost me with the "chills up their spines". She's not tried to scare them. She's tried to (as she said to Piama, or Caroline), "beat them down into submission like a puppy." Not scare them. There is a difference.

they didn't just give up on him academically, i remember in "secret boyfried" hal admitted that he gave up on reese years ago, the plot was reese moving out and finding a job, not academics. he was sleep walking, he also did whatever reese said during that time and would moon walk at the toaster beeping? something like that i haven't seen the episode since it premiered.

i'm not saying that they don't love their kids because they do but they're always trying to mature their children and that episode also showed that they weren't all that mature themselves, even lois, a DOLL HOUSE.

how is being president what's best for him? they already have put tons of pressure on him since they found out he was a genius so now he needs the u.s and most of the world to rest on his shoulders. i think lois, hal, francis, reese and dewey is enough. they want him to live up to his potentional but that doesn't mean the voters will believe in him and sweep him into office, they could be setting him up for the horrible, embarrassing, humiliating ego check ( the ego check he needs ) but they've set up his whole life for him, what happens when he can't live up to those standards of greatness selfishly tossed on him.

the discipline in my househoud, lol... well my parents would always hold things over my head but they weren't really parents i could basically do anything i wanted and in my current household my kid isn't old enough to be going through any of these issues. and yours?

regardless of what's she's trying to do, they are scared of her and so is hal for that matter, lol.

it's not god dewey, it's just my crappy car, although in a larger sense i suppose he could have helped out my career a bit from time to time. thrown a promotion my way once in a while, so you're right maybe it is god! hal

No one is perfect and Hal and Lois are definitely not perfect parents, but they are certainly not bad parents. They love all their children very dearly and to express that their children shouldn't even exist is incredibly mean. Hal and Lois love each other very dearly, and we've heard the accident stories of how all the kids have been conceived. But just because they were accidents doesn't mean they don't love them and nurture them and care for them in whatever way they can. It's just that the Wilkerson children are not always the easiest to love and care for. Francis didn't care about anything but destruction; how are you supposed to combat that? And what would you have done to Reese if he used the cats to concoct whatever crazy thing he did in Reese's Apartment? Hal and Lois don't do what they do because they're crappy parents; they do it because they've tried every other punishment and they just don't work.