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Anonymous and Craigslist: Proof that Scientology Knows It’s Under Attack

We’ve been meaning to come back to the subject of Scientology and Craigslist since our story of September 22 seemed to kick off some interesting and frenetic activity in that sector.

Since 2009, folks at Project Chanology, the Anonymous collective that watches Scientology like a hawk, have been making efforts to curb the church’s use of deceptive ads at Craigslist. This “Clear Craig” program was coordinated at WhyWeProtest.net, but had slowed down in recent months, as one would expect after several years of effort.

Then, a reader sent us a previously secret manual that Scientology was using to train its “cyber dissemination” people to post ads on Craigslist from locations around the country.

And that’s when things got interesting.

We published portions of the manual, showing how Scientology orgs are taught how to lure people in by looking for people who are depressed or have anxiety. It’s not until they make a call that people answering the ads learn that the “group” they wanted to join was really the Scientology mission in their neighborhood.

Outraged at the deception, a number of our readers vowed to do something about it, and in our comments section they began comparing notes as they flagged Scientology ads on Craigslist pages in their area. Our readers also reached out to WWP, and the Clear Craig program there was revived and is now the nexus of the ongoing activity.

Besides flagging ads for being deceptive, the clever folks at Anonymous also began putting up ads of their own that mocked Scientology, and when one of our readers brought that to the attention of the Business Insider, the publication bit. And so did a number of other publications.

But did the campaign really affect Scientology and its Craigslist effort? Evidence suggests that it has.

Not only are we seeing more reports that flagged ads are down, but we’re seeing reports that some cities now have no deceptive ads at all.

And an e-mail forwarded to us by a tipster suggests that Scientology is feeling the heat — but vows to fight on. Here it is…

You may or may not have ran into some suppression on Craigslist. If not, good for you. If you did, here is the solution.

Account Being Put on Hold?

I’ve just received a few reports yesterday and today that some of our Cyber Dissemination members’ Craigslist accounts were being put on hold. This is not a big problem. We can easily solve this.

Basically there is an SP saying we are running scams or crimes on Craigslist in some cities, which caused some of our accounts getting shut down. This false reporting doesn’t happen to us much at all, but it could happen once in a while, as it is now. Craigslist management has only about 30 staff members, and they manage millions of ads each day, so basically if they get complaints or scams, they might shut down the ads or accounts without investigation.

It’s definitely a “sign of success.”

Fortunately, the solution is simple. It’s simpler than trying to get Craiglist management to reverse the accounts from being shut down. Simply create more accounts and post more ads than ever before. That’s the solution. Use www.pvaspot.com to get more phone numbers if you need more phone numbers to verify accounts.

Create more accounts than you had before. Post more ads than you did before. You will reach more people and flourish and prosper.

If your Craigslist account for Scientology ads are intact, make sure to IMMEDIATELY back up your ads, just in case the accounts get shut down due to this problem. (Some SP’s are on the loose right now.) This way you won’t lose any ads you’ve created.

An SP is Posting A Lot of Entheta Ads on Craigslist in Your Area?

If an SP is posting a lot of entheta ads on Craigslist, you can get the SP’s ads being taken down by reporting them to Craigslist management. Use this link: http://www.craigslist.org/about/help/abuse

You will see this:

Harassment, publication of personal information
If your personal information has been posted on craigslits:

Use our online form to report the issue.
Choose “harassment / flagging” option.
Choose an appropriate option for what type of harassment issue you are experiencing.
Put 911 in the subject field.
Provide as much information as possible, including the posting ID number, keywords that might appear in the posting, and the specific craigslist city and category in which your personal information appears.

Do the 911 thing like it says. List the URL’s of the entheta posts in the report. The entheta posts will be taken down within hours.

I hope this helps.

Let me know if you have any questions.

We will win!

The enthusiasm is infectious, isn’t it?

For the record, we just want to point out that the Underground Bunker has merely revealed the existence of a Scientology manual for spamming Craigslist, and we’ve now published evidence that Scientology is aware that Anonymous is making efforts to flag ads. The Bunker is not involved in any activity regarding Craigslist, and does not condone or endorse any activism that may have been expressed in our comments section. (Hey, we have lawyers, too, and sometimes they need reassuring.)

——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on October 9, 2013 at 08:45

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Well, maybe they could care less. They mean the opposite, of course. Makes ya want to smack somebody!

Sandy

I’m tellin’ ya. In rural Minnesota, it is a common phrase …

Eclipse-girl

totally I agree. It is a colloquial expression in various parts of the country.

Do they say “road” or “pop?”
Do they “bubble?”

Bury_The_Nuts

Oh my gosh. I am in Florida and my friend/co-worker was getting all kind of shit for calling it “pop” today.

Eclipse-girl

I grew up in Upstate NY. I called it “pop”, too

Now in Wisconsin, it is “soda.”

I have been told that in Atlanta and perhaps all of GA, all soda pop is referred to as “coke.” I have never been able to confirm that weird rumor

Sandy

In MN, it is still pop

ETA: Unless younger people have changed that. How would this old fogy know???

Bury_The_Nuts

LOL, Confirmed.
Here is the deal. The original coke recipe is in a Suntrust Bank Vault in Atlanta, GA.
And I can confirm that…usually,,,we ask for a coke…and then the waitress says pepsi and we say yeah whatever.

Disclaimer: I used to work for Suntrust.
John and Kellys local bank in the south.

Ok, I have said enough now

Sibs

Oops, didn’t see this comment. I can confirm!
Also, according to my friends who actually lived in Atlanta, where I grew up doesn’t count as the Atlanta area, so consider that confirmation for all of GA (honestly, I never seriously considered that people called it other names until after I moved).

Eclipse-girl

TY for that confirmation. How would I I order a root beer in Atlanta?

Sibs

Well, when you say you want a coke, they ask you what kind of coke you would like.

My first job (this was after I moved away from GA) was at a fast food stand, and it took me a while to train myself not to ask “What kind?” when people ordered a coke.

Eclipse-girl

TY. I would hate to make an ass of myself in Atlanta. I understand the difficulty of “what kind?” What general part of the country are you in, and what word do you use there?

Sibs

Welllllll I live in LA now, and here people are from all over of course but the main word is “soda”. But I went to high school in the midwest, where they call it “pop”. I still call it coke because it’s hard to break that habit… and I get a lot of questions (and I’m used to it. I get questions anyway because I don’t run into anybody from GA who isn’t from Atlanta, and there’s a lot of huge cultural differences).

Robert Eckert

What if the “kind” of coke that you want is, you know, Coke?

MadMaxi

“Co-cola” is Coke in my area, and a coke is usually Dr Pepper. Many use the term “soft drink” or “sodee pop” in rural SW VA.

Robert Eckert

I heard “soda pop” a lot in Indiana (so either the “soda” people or the “pop” people would understand you, I guess) but “sodee pop” sounds like someone from Bare Creek Holler.

MadMaxi

If you ever watched the reality tv show “Moonshiners” you will get the mountain accents from my area. Filmed all around here. Watched it once since it was local, took me about 3 minutes before I realized they were running subtitles on the screen. We just thought they talked normal, like when there aren’t any strangers around.

Sibs

Regular coke!

GlibWog

To Go

Nick Overmyer

Here in Texas, it’s aaallll referred to as “coke” as well. This is despite the fact the Texans’ cola of choice is usually our homegrown Dr. Pepper. Go figure.

Eclipse-girl

How does one receive receive non coke selections in TX?
Do I have to ask ” what kind of cokes do you have?”

Captain Howdy

On the west coast we called it “soda”, down south they call soda “a cold drink” and on the east coast the locals call it a “seltzer”.

Sibs

It’s COKE, dammit!
(I grew up in the South)

jeff

I grew up in Pittsburgh. We called it “pop”. A soda had ice cream in it.

EnthralledObserver

Soft-drink with ice-cream in it is known as a “Spider”.

EnthralledObserver

In Australia, all sweet carbonated beverages are “soft-drink”… if you want to get specific, it’s coke, Fanta, lemonade, solo, portello, sarsaparilla… etc, etc…

Eclipse-girl

Would “soda” or “pop” be recognized as “soft-drink?”

EnthralledObserver

Yep.. but you’d immediately be outed as American.
We also have soda-water, which is just carbonated water, but I doubt anyone would think you were talking about that if you said ‘soda’ by itself.

Eclipse-girl

My accent would out me before I got too many words out. ;- )

Soda water implies carbonated water, too

Seltzer water should imply that too, but sometimes there is stuff in seltzer.

Jimmy Threetimes

From Ohio, and “could care less” is heard more frequently than “couldn’t care less”. When you think about it, it works if you treat it as sarcasm, but really its just an accepted phrase because you grew up hearing it. Also, we say “pop” in Ohio, but still drink soda from time to time.

GlibWog

Yep.. OHIO Could Care Less that I drink POP..

Jimmy Threetimes

Yep..

Robert Eckert

That’s why Tom Cruise wanted to be in the film, because Grisham talks like Miscavige.

ThetaBara

What’s with the messages that “are not active” yet they appear?
Is that what happens when you lock your message history? Anyone know?

jeff

I don’t know but a couple of times I hit reply and subsequently changed my mind and could not close the box. These may be an “are not active”.

aquaclara

Please notice the absence of down arrow tech on this fine Wednesday, people.
In the past, we would see this as early as Tuesday, but almost always revved up by Wednesday, in order to make 2 pm Thursday stat time.
Perhaps the chairs needed re-arranging over at the Big Tent today.

Observer

Tomorrow will be the true test.

DamOTclese2

I’m willing to use one of my few remaining and very expensive down arrows for today, if it will help.

aquaclara

Much appreciated, D.

ze moo

Those few with internet access are much too busy re posting Craigslist ads.

aquaclara

There you go! We keep them running, and they think they are clearing the planet. WIN all the way around!

MissCandle

Aqua (my favorite color, btw),
You are so full of surmizationness!

Douglas D. Douglas

That token down vote is cute. Looks good on you!

DamOTclese2

I was saving it to use on a special occasion. It does look cute.

Jgg2012

As for spoofs, one could have a field day (“want to understand whyTom Cruise jumps on couches?” “Want to learn why Psychiatry became obsolete 50 years ago?” “Want to join the fastest growing religion in the world [for this, give the phone # of an idle morgue]”

Verve

Yep

chukicita

I see that the Tampa Bay Times posted a story a few hours ago that has a photo of Pat Harney about an “scn rep’ meeting with Clearwater people about the Super Power building. But I can’t get to it because i don’t have a stupid digital subscription and can’t get out of my body to go read it.

TonyOrtega

It was from yesterday. Basically, Harney showed up at a community meeting but didn’t really give any details about the upcoming events. Charlie Frago pointed out that if Scientology is determined to open Super Power before year’s end, and wants street closures and police protection, they have to choose from three weekends: Oct. 27, Nov. 17 and Nov. 24. Until we get definite word that they’re choosing one, I was going to wait before writing something.

chukicita

Sweet baby Xenu, it IS Wednesday, isn’t it? Thanks for the teaser, looking forward to the story.

Robert Eckert

I don’t remember if it was you up in a post or a commenter down below who quoted from the e-mail sent to the UK Scientologists and leaked to Mike Rinder, where they are still going to have three events, namely a rebroadcast of the Super Power opening, a Golden Age of Tek rollout, and the IAS regging without their magic tent: “The events will all be held at Saint Hill on either a Friday, Saturday or Sunday evening before Christmas.” They should hold all of those dates open, I guess.

thought some might enjoy a famous person getting served pic I came across…..

Bury_The_Nuts

I loved that woman.

http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

So did Ari Onassis. She was a great talent.

media_lush

The latter half of Callas’s career was marked by a number of scandals. Following a performance of Madama Butterfly in Chicago, Callas was confronted by a process server who handed her papers about a lawsuit brought by Eddy Bagarozy, who claimed he was her agent. Callas was photographed with her mouth turned in a furious snarl. The photo was sent around the world and gave rise to the myth of Callas as a temperamental prima donna and a “Tigress”. In 1956, just before her debut at the Metropolitan Opera, Time ran a damaging cover story about Callas, with special attention paid to her difficult relationship with her mother and some unpleasant exchanges between the two.

Source wikipedia

….. can you imagine tiny fists’s face when he gets served…..

Frank

Tony O & John P future reference Peter Mansell (head of OSA) said aloud (Yelling) in 2010-2011 there were only 1200 scientolgists in the entire Tampa Bay area. This as he was yelling at SO thinking others did not hear him. I only posted this as John is quite good at extrapolating figures. While I am horrible at grammar this might be useful.

John P.

Thanks for contributing that information. I am assuming he meant “public,” since that’s substantially less than the number of culties that I think work at all the various Flag buildings. If that turns out to be true, then it is possible that the number of culties in the US, which I currently estimate at 15,000 could be a bit high. The number of Scientologists in the Tampa area should be second only to the number of Scientologists in LA. And if he did in fact say that at the start of 2011, then the number could easily have gone down materially since then, particularly after the Debbie Cook e-mail in January 2012.

If this is true, then the chances of an implosion in the events business increase significantly. The only way Miscavige could hope to fill the new Tent of Theta given that he refuses to commit dates to anything is if he is heavily relying on local Tampa public to fill seats, since the inability to plan for a cross-country trip makes it hard for people from LA and other areas to attend. But if it turns out that the estimate of 1200 active public in Tampa is correct, it is unlikely that he can get more than half of those to the IAS event, plus some number of “whales” who are not constrained by travel costs.

However, normal prudent analytical principles that I have learned in all these years at Global Capitalism HQ come into play. Any time you have a new data point that provides significant support to your thesis or your desired outcome (in our case, the disappearance of the cult), it is always a better idea to cross-check that data point as much as you can, particularly since a data point like this has big “ripple effects” on other parts of your scenario, such as the amount of money the cult can pull in at major events. So I am going to treat this as an interesting hint of a potential change but I don’t think it prudent just yet to revise my scenario of the membership, the cult’s revenues, etc. Let’s see just how big a disaster the attendance at the Big Top of Planetary Clearing event series turns out to be. If event attendance is a disaster, especially if we find out for sure that Miscavige revealed the date of the event too close to the time of the actual event, then we can start to incorporate this data point in our thinking.

Frank

Wow John you are really on top of things, However Peetie was talking about SO & Public. He was not aware others overheard the conversation. There are more OOT now but the numbers are still not good. However you do you what you do best.
Oh the estimate then was around 700-800 SO at Flag.

Bury_The_Nuts

The numbers right now are so inflated in Clearwater. Dave has a serious batch of people in from outer org’s. They appear to be donning a grey vest as an Identifier.
Another thing Dee pointed out to me was that right now…….There are more “epaulettes” walking the streets than ever seen before.
I started looking around and noticed that was true. Lots of them.
I am really wondering how many people from Gold are in Florida right now.

It just “feels” odd down there now.

Edit: let me qualify that…more odd than usual.

John P.

One would suspect that there are a lot of people from Gold at Flag right now, so that Davey can keep an eye on them. He is probably paranoid that people from Gold are going to be out there conspiring to break Heber out of the Hole and mount a palace coup and depose him while he’s gone. Easier to bring them along with him (though I’m sure they didn’t get to travel on his private jet) than it is to try and keep an eye on them from across the country.

Bury_The_Nuts

yepper sir

Frank

The Grey’s would be OOT also the expanded numbers of “epaulettes” are another indicator. They would either be Midshipman/Warrant Officers or a higher rank. If it were a small gold bar with a smaller Blue line in the middle. They are Midshipman usually not a lot to be found at Flag. BTN it might be an idea to familiarize yourself with Naval insignia. The norm is only Warrant, Ensign and a very few LT junior grade. For laughs it will even help at protest to be able to identify various Naval insignia. As much as it repulses me to see them wearing the uniform. Information is power. They rarely show Petty Officer insignia

Thank you. I will go educate myself. cuz i was overwhelmed and confused.

Frank

Just an FYI should one wish to contact another on this discus thing how do you go about it. With all due respect please send my love to Dee this is Charlie:)

Bury_The_Nuts

Frank, I am a conduit to FREEduM (i will tell Dee who)

BuryTheNuts AT Gmail dot com.

i can point you to where ever you wish

L. C. Spencer

I would believe numbers that small. I’ve lived in Tampa since the early 90s, with a lot of interaction around the Bay, and the only Scientologists I’ve ever met outside of Clearwater itself (and that not far from Flag) were the ones that were plainly bused to USF Tampa campus for a CAN protest. Literally. I’ve met a few in Nature’s Food Patch, and the rest in downtown CW. Not one anywhere in Tampa, or St. Pete, or Sarasota; on any USF campus. I’m sure if I lived in Clearwater I’d meet public who keep local businesses and such, and I’m sure there must BE at least some Scientologists scattered around, including presumably a few to staff that enormous YBorg. But they’re hard to find without looking for them.

Frank

It’s true they do Bus Clearwater OSA security to work in Tampa at least they use to. Ryan Gosling as he was called had to work Clearwater & Tampa (Ybor). It’s quite often a game with them to make you think there are more then there really are at an area. They will move SO in one door, exit where you do not see them. Then send them right back, personally I don’t believe there are any more than 10,000 tops.

edge

I’m finding it difficult to remember a scenario where the silence of an organization was more fascinating. The longer it takes Miscavige to put a hard date on any of the fall’s three major events, the more we can infer that a slow motion implosion is going on.

We can make a pretty good guess that at least part of the reason why the IAS event was moved Stateside was because of the UK Sun infiltrating the 2012 event with ease. That’s a security hole that probably pissed off Daveyboy to no end. Be that as it may, East Grinstead at least has the ‘hook’ of St. Hill for the Scis to go there. If Super Power isn’t opened before or at the same time as the IAS event, there’s no real hook for the UK whales. I doubt Miscavige has the awareness to gauge the UK whales’ interest in coming to the US for events, let alone on little or no notice. Also, as you and others have mentioned even last minute, cross country flights from LA are super expensive. Which could mean the realistic audience for the fall events are just those public Scientologists in the Tampa area, and any Sea Org/staff/RPF that can be rounded up and given civilian clothes. That might be enough to fill the tent of a couple thousand, but I doubt it will be anywhere near 10,000.

aquaclara

This is a significant set of data. I want to add in an anecdotal bit that won’t change your conclusions, but I find it interesting. I believe there is a pocket of potential whales that are cultivated and worked over regularly. I know of two near Flag. They get invited to big events, get their pictures taken with celebs, etc. They do not donate or take classes, but like going to the events and there is a potential business connection. I wonder if there are more of these?

Jeb Burton

I think people think that these ads on craiglist are more effective than they really are. I would imagine as soon as you learn that the people are scientology and they are going to charge you money, most people are out. In my opinion, this tactic is less successful than stress tests on the street. Craiglist people are there because they dont want to pay. But I guess if they get 1 out of 100, its a success for them.

AsthmaticDwarf

Just doing it, in and of itself, is a win for each poster, for their DIV 6 stats, for Thurs. 2pm end-of-week. Whether anyone responds, is another stat.

Frank

Correct whether effective to their bottom line or not it will be pushed to a Stat the the org will use for their own purpose.

ThetaBara

That’s why spam still exists. Do you really think people are dumb enough to fall for it? Well, occasionally one does, and it’s essentially free to send out.
But I do agree that it is unlikely that many people are suckered. Some even have the same clip art photo!

DamOTclese2

Congratulations, ThetaBara, your message posting just won you $318,000 dollars! Please send me your banking information so that we may award you your prize!

ThetaBara

OMG!!!!!

Frank

True I do not think it was until Robert Vaughn Young had his Bachelor’s degree and was working on his PHD that they got him. I know in my own area they set up on campus with the stress test. Yet there are still educated young kids the first time away from home. Away from the family with only a computer and the internet then someone offers the answers. They are vulnerable for the tactics used by scientology and some do fall prey. So I think it’s best to cover all the bases Robert or even Mike were really not stupid. They just got caught at the wrong time and the wrong place.

Bury_The_Nuts

The fun part of this project is it getting picked up in the press that Anon vs. Scientology on Craigslist is happening.
Just one more bit of crappy publicity for Dave!

PILE ON!

Frank

That could be yet I think it is America flagging deceptive adds and this website among others has brought it to the public’s attention. I am an Anon yet you got our there BTN along with Dee. My Honor & Respect to all of you, the pics were great, Truly:)

Bury_The_Nuts

I wore bat glasses? Doesn’t that count?

OK. I am going to don the Guy Fawkes soon….Just so I can argue with Espiando.
heh heh heh.

Seriously, thank to you all. We really are one big team. We just don’t bunk in the same place.

Eclipse-girl

The cleaning crew is disappointed that you do not find our services good enough for you to retire here.

Bury_The_Nuts

Then you all need to make sure the moscato is chilled.
Warm moscato sucks.

Eclipse-girl

We supply beverages and snacks. The mini fridges are under the tables laden with snacks and glasses. We supply all the various shapes of glasses for the plethora of beer and myriad of wines , multitude of liquors that are on hand

Bury_The_Nuts

LOL, what are you? Cherry 2000?

I just want some Goddamn ice in my wine.

That is all

edit: hope you know I am just being…er…me.

Eclipse-girl

Ice cream is provided in separate freezer case, along with some liquors like Vodka and Aquavit.. We attempt to provide for all your (non sexual) needs

Yes : I appreciate you for who you are. : – P

Bury_The_Nuts

good freakin job!

Funnybroad

crappy publicity to pile on

Bury_The_Nuts

U R not right.
I like Ya!

Funnybroad

I made you look!!!

Bury_The_Nuts

yes, yes…and I am not happy about that…LOL

ThetaBara

Pass the eye bleach!

DamOTclese2

Every time a prospective mark answers one of these fraudulent ads either by email or making a phone call, the crooks get to report that as a “new member” on their Thursday statistics. If the crooks can swindle some money from the mark, all the better, of course.

He sure throws his money away like a Scientologists. $40 mil guaranteed for Albert Haynesworth, the guy couldn’t even pass a basic conditioning test. Lullin

Robert Eckert

The completion reports can hardly be referring to a different Dan Snyder: the number of trips to the Freewinds confirm it is a whale, not some other person of the same name whom we haven’t heard of.

L. C. Spencer

We certainly already knew he’s a jerk.

noseinabk

If this is true Monkey is going to go on a epic rant.

Seannie5

Question – when Hubbard skulked off like a coward in the 80’s how did they explain it away to church members? I can guess it was ‘to do important work’… am I right?

AsthmaticDwarf

Yes

Bella Legosi

And to hide from the government.

Poison Ivy

“Research.” Ground breaking “research.”

His research methods and protocols were all meticulously recorded and quantified by his many able lab assistants. The results were then published in SCIENCE and a few other peer-reviewed professional journals. Other scientists then repeated his experiments and miraculously duplicated his ground-breaking results again and again. And that, my little ones, is how he became known as “Mankind’s Best Friend.”

What?

Hubs doesn’t have any records of any “research”? None? Nowhere?

No peer-reviewed journals?

No corroborating experiments?

No record of ANY experiments, at all?

The dog ate it all?

Never mind.

Johnny Tank

I am as baffled as you are!

Douglas D. Douglas

Is that a typo there? I believe you meant to write “the WOG ate it all.”

Jgg2012

And he died with Vistaril in his system.

Andrew Robertson

No, it wasn’t a dog that destroyed the research results of Mankind’s greatest friend. It was space aliens from the Marcabian Fifth Invader Fleet realizing that their plans to enslave us were doomed if the ‘tech’ became widely known. Marcabians have fragile skulls which are easily broken by flying ashtrays.

Andrew

SLIM

I heard it was a 5 year old boy….
That ate ALL his telexes…

Andrew Robertson

For the full horrific story of this poor little boy’s punishment by Ron ‘The Humanitarian’, see Bent Corydon book ‘Messiah or Madman’ page 21:

The four-year-old boy could no longer cry. He had been nearly 4
hours in the chain locker of the flagship Apollo and his entire body
was aching from his efforts to chip off rust. His knees and hands were
raw with cuts and bruises. His voice was raspy from crying, and he
was desperately afraid. He was constantly making resolutions to
never, never again eat the Commodore’s telexes–the most recent
crime of which he had been accused.

[…]

Andrew

Poison Ivy

Horrifying.

Verve

Research!

Robert Eckert

It’s not a coloring book, it’s a COOKBOOK!

VickiStubing

It’s a floor wax AND a dessert topping!

Verve

My bad…

Suzy

“To Serve Man…” one of my fav Twilight Zone episodes

L. C. Spencer

He was off saving the universe by finishing the “discovery” and “documentation” of the OT levels! Can’t do that amid the hustle and bustle of the workaday world

Ruby

First we were told that it was research.
Then it was something like, he had done his job here, so he could go back to his pleasure of writing Science Fiction, the Mission Earth book series. (OK…I will say it so others don’t have to …go back to writing science fiction?!?!)
Then, when he passed away, it was back to the research story and that it was completed since he was able to causatively “drop the body and move on to Target 2″.

SLCesspee

Longtime reader, first time poster. I just checked my local Craigslist and we are inundated with these ads. Lots of classes, all with a cutesy photo of one of Elron’s corresponding books. None of them mention Scientology. I’ve been on the sidelines too long. How do I proceed to get these flagged?

Welcome! And thanks for the heads up–I never thought to check SLC on Craigs List.
Of course, that leads to all sorts of interesting questions, like, can my Beloved and I stay with you while I attend a machine embroidery class and he learns how to inject Botox? mwahaha

Bury_The_Nuts

Machine embrodery and botox.

What a pair! I love it.

Frank

Quite a few I did read through each one and found them to be deceptive. Almost attempting to prey on people so I took it upon myself to flag what I though was inappropriate. So deceitful and shameless truly sickening.

Sandy

Done all I found.

Funnybroad

I flagged all of the ones that aren’t obviously L. Ron Hubbard or Scientology. After perusing all of the bizarre fund-raising and volunteer-soliciting campaigns from various orgs, I had to look twice at: Learn Michael Jackson’s Thriller & PERFORM IT!

KJP in Portland

Hi Funny I flagged everything I could too!

AngryElf

K – flagged everything relevant. Had to read the botox ad just for grins.

Plus, SLC may be full of Gentiles, but those are gonna be harder to recruit than the average raw meat. They’ve built up some immunity

jmh

We are on it over at WWP. You can flag each ad as spam by choosing either the spam or the prohibited option in the upper right hand corner of each ad page.

Eclipse-girl

SLCesspee may not realize that WWP stand for Why We Protest.

SLCesspee

Don’t worry, I can keep up with the Scilon speak. I started my little hobby by following Chanology when they fought back against Cruise’s rant on Youtube. Up until now, I thought that by buying and then passing on the books from Lawrence Wright and Jenna Miscavige to friends in the hopes they’d pass them on too. Today, I decided that I didn’t want these folks bilking my neighbors.

Eclipse-girl

cool. it took me a while to get up to speed with $ci – lon speak. I still do not get all of the jargon.

‘Because it was founded to trick stupid people out of lots of money. That’s what a cult is. Of course by that definition Christianity is a cult as well.’

wtf is this? Christians don’t have to give all their money away in order to learn about Christianity. BIG difference.

Eclipse-girl

As an atheist, there are times when I think all religions are cults. They inculcate you and try to tell you how to think.

As a member here, I try to stay away from that..

IT IS NOT ABOUT BELIEF
IT IS ABOUT CRIMINAL ACTS.

After that rant, I agree with you Seannie5. It really depends on the christian denomination involved. My In-laws were a part of an evangelical denomination that would have liked to receive more of their wealth than they did. However they were also pretty damn good about providing support to both of them as they were dying.

Douglas D. Douglas

By the strictest definition, any religion is, indeed, a cult. Any group that sets itself apart is a cult.

That definition is rapidly becoming obsolete and has been for years now, even though dictionaries (which are by definition reactive) still give leeway. Language changes even more rapidly now than before the advent of mass media, and already “cult” is shifting to the sense of “a group that isolates and controls the lives of its members to a severe degree,” with plenty of wiggle room to define terms like “severity” and “harm.” That’s why some academics tried to introduce “new religious movement,” because they wanted something that lacked the negative, “controlling” connotations that “cult” brings to mind for most people now. It sort of worked, but unfortunately there are a lot of movements that fit into both categories.

Sorry, had to wordnerd for a second there. The use of “cult” in such a general sense is nearly gone now, in practical terms. It has come to mean one of those groups that steals your loved ones and turns them into people who are faithful to none outside an arbitrary tightknit group. Which is something anyone can relate to who’s ever been disconnected.

Poison Ivy

Agreed. I go more by Stanley Lifton’s definition, as the English word “cult” has evolved to denote “mind control cult.”

jeff

You mean Robert Jay Lifton, nicht wahr?

Poison Ivy

Yes, my error. Robert Lifton.

Douglas D. Douglas

Context is everything. In the context of discussing religion, I would definitely agree with everything you are saying.

(And wordnerding is a GOOD thing!)

Seannie5

Oh certainly, every religion lends itself to cultish behaviour, and Catholicism is riddled in it’s own very serious problems – but as somebody who grew up as a Catholic I can categorically deny that it ”takes all our money”. A donation is a donation – you give what you want and what you can afford. Whoever wrote that hasn’t a clue – or else is familiar with some very shady parish priests! – possible, I guess!!!

Johnny Tank

There are cults, and there are money grabbing, brainwashing, soul crushing, family destroying, lie telling, evil cults. Of the two I guess I would put Scientology in the second category.

Sandy

Yup. My in’laws were devoted Lutherans. This usually conservative group sure had a handle on my wealthy FIL. But, when he died, they treated him & the family well. They had a minister spend the night at the hospital while we waited for him to pass.

While he did leave them quite a bit of $, they have treated my MIL with respect.

Sibs

See, I’m a Lutheran, and sadly out here where I live now they are way more conservative than they were where I grew up and where my family lives now… so I get that viewpoint, but at the same time it confuses me to read it. I did grow up in an extremely conservative environment in general, but the Lutherans were always more liberal than everyone else. But… again… ever since I moved out here I’ve realized that the overall denomination has official “views” that I’ve never experienced.

Anyway. My point being that I wouldn’t compare them to Scientology at all, and I would say that what I’ve experienced in that religion makes me more attuned to how screwed up it is that Scientology poses as a religion to rope in people at all.

Sandy

depends on the synod, doesn’t it …

Sibs

I think it depends on the individual church. The pastor at my family’s church in the midwest was part of the group lobbying for the synod to support gay marriage. That didn’t go their way.

Sandy

Bless his heart

Sandy

Here in MN, every synod imaginable is available. In my small home town, there were at least 3 with at least 5 diff churches to choose from. IIRC. Could be more. Strong Scandinavain and
German roots

Sibs

Oh heck yeah, Minnesota! Yeah, all of my family originates from Wisconsin/Ohio/Upper Peninsula/German roots so I totally get that.

KJP in Portland

Agreed Eclipse! I still have beliefs, but I respect others’ viewpoints / beliefs (well, certainly NOT CoB$!). My wife is atheist too. It makes for spirited conversation on rare occasions, but it doesn’t ruin our relationship…

We’re all here for a common cause and I don’t care what people believe in…

(((hugs)))

Eclipse-girl

I have argued with fundamentalists a lot. I don’t bother anymore because it doesn’t help and it only elevate my blood pressure.

as an atheist, i really do not care what you believe as long as….

1) you do not hurt or harm any one else
2) you understand that public school should teach sciences to the best of our knowledge (creationism is not science)
3) I do not want to be forced to follow religious laws / regulations to be a citizen of the US. I will fight against such laws.

(((HUGS))) day 2 is over.

I would like to meet you and your wife , some day. I thing spirited conversations can add some excitement into the relationship.

KJP in Portland

I agree! Science, yes…creationism no. And not some Sharia Law type, never. Faith is a personal thing. That’s how I view it. Absolutely no church and state combination, ever. Pure democracy, yes (and we still have a ways to go indeed! )

And of course I would love to meet YOU and several of the other Bunkerites someday. I still don’t know for sure who is sorta near me. I know of one in Eastern Oregon, and one in Seattle. Anyone else near me?

ThetaBara

That is their very favorite straw argument. “All religions are cults!” They also seem to target Catholics in particular, but in any case it is their favorite derail.

Eclipse-girl

They go after catholics because of the bad publicity of sexual abuse.

BUT we now that $cientology is guilty of covering up the sexual abuse that has occurred at Flag , and probably elsewhere

This could only divide us rather than unite us in defeating $cientology

Verve

Ha, I’ve heard of similar attempts at conjuring up “new, shocking proof of blah blah blah…” Yeah, whatever, if it was true it would be on the evening of ABC, CBS, NBC, et al.

ThetaBara

Nice ID! LOL!

FWIW, it is well known that the New Testament was written many (40 to 100+) years after the historical Jesus (for whom there is at least some proof) died. Also, with the exception of (IIRC) Mark, the gospels were not written by the people whose names were attached to them. The actual Jesus appears to have been a radical who the Romans were eager to snuff lest he foment a real uprising. There’s a book about it: Zealot, by Reza Aslan. I’ve only read the preview but he apparently conducted extensive research.

Sandy

I learned this in a “Bible as Literature” class as a college Junior. I was initially so angry at my preacher for not telling me that – cuz- of course, he knew this. But, I finally decided to let sleeping sheep lie and let it all go …

MadMaxi

This was due the strong oral tradition in those times when written texts were extremely rare. Back then scholars and people were trained from youth to memorize works word for word. a tradition largely lost among most humans today save the Aborigines from Australia, and certain other who cultivate the techniques.

ThetaBara

The Jewish folks still memorize the Torah, too.

MadMaxi

Ditto, and Muslims the Koran.

http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

There was a good New Yorker article about an ethnic group in India that has an annual recitation of their religious epic, I think it ran about 3 or more years ago. If you’re interesting in that sort of thing, it’s worth looking up.

MadMaxi

Great! I’ll have to look it up, thanks for the reference.

Robert Eckert

The Zealot sect, which had their own line of Davidite claimants, were not on entirely good terms with the early Christians. Aslan’s viewpoint is heavily affected by the presumptions he carries over from his Muslim upbringing.

ThetaBara

Interesting, thanks. Like I said, I have not read his entire book, but I do know that some of his basic premises are well supported.

http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

The oldest manuscript of Christian literature, is the Gospel of Thomas, which has a Gnostic flavor to it, which is why it isn’t recognized by mainstream Christianity. Also, the three Synoptic Gospels are considered by many scholars to be related to a now-lost Gospel called the “Q” document, q from the German word quelle or spring(like a water spring) because it was first advanced by German Biblical scholars in the 19th Century.

I had a friend who read the book, he found a lot of logical holes in it, one being that the book said there wasn’t much of a need for carpenters in the Holy Land at the time Jesus is said to have lived, despite the fact that even mud structures need wooden beams and the like for support, even in a land without many trees as it was at the time.

Robert Eckert

Gospel of Thomas has two sections to it. The Greek text that we have, unfortunately rather fragmentary, is quite old but only contains sayings from 1 to 39 (although it appears that “1st Thomas” actually continues up to 47; we just don’t have Greek fragments for the last few). The Coptic manuscript is from much later and contains 114 sayings, but 48-114 are in a very different style (“2nd Thomas”; here is where we find the “Gnostic” interpolations). 1st Thomas appears to be well-preserved quotations from Jesus sometimes giving a better text than the “Q” material in Matthew and Luke (“consider the lilies who card not, neither do they spin”– here “card” is a rare verb for a step in the clotth-weaving process; a single-letter change turns it into “toil” as in Q; Thomas appears to have the original text; again “a wild grape has been planted in my Father’s garden” refers to a passage in Isaiah where YHWH plants grapes but beushiym grow up, a very obscure word for “wild grapes” which the translators of Q apparently could not puzzle out, telling us instead “a plant has been planted in my Father’s garden”).

The word rendered “carpenter” is techne “craftsman”, not specifically “woodworker”; it is only the Latin rendering which makes us assume Joseph worked in wood specifically.

http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

According to the Wiki:

After the Coptic version of the complete text was discovered in 1945
at Nag Hammadi, scholars soon realized that three different Greek text
fragments previously found at Oxyrhynchus, also in Egypt, were part of the Gospel of Thomas.[18][19]
These three papyrus fragments of Thomas date to between 130 and 250.
Prior to the Nag Hammadi library discovery, the sayings of Jesus found
in Oxyrhynchus were known simply as Logia Iesu. The corresponding Koine Greek fragments of the Gospel of Thomas, found in Oxyrhynchus are:

P. Oxy. 1 :
fragments of logia 26 through 33, with the last two sentences of logion
77 in the Coptic version included at the end of logion 30 herein.

P. Oxy. 654 : fragments of the beginning through logion 7, logion 24 and logion 36 on the flip side of a papyrus containing surveying data.[20]

P. Oxy. 655 : fragments of logia 36 through 39. 8 fragments designated a through h, whereof f and h have since been lost.[21]

The wording of the Coptic sometimes differs markedly from the earlier
Greek Oxyrhynchus texts, the extreme case being that the last portion
of logion 30 in the Greek is found at the end of logion 77 in the
Coptic. This fact, along with the quite different wording Hippolytus
uses when apparently quoting it (see below), suggests that the Gospel of
Thomas “may have circulated in more than one form and passed through
several stages of redaction.”[22]
Although it is generally thought that the Gospel of Thomas was first
composed in Greek, there is evidence that the Coptic Nag Hammadi text is
a translation from Syriac (see Syriac origin)

“Although it is generally thought that the Gospel of Thomas was first composed in Greek, there is evidence that the Coptic Nag Hammadi text is a translation from Syriac” The “wild grape” passage is also evidence that the Greek text of Thomas, and the Greek text of Q, had a common Aramaic or Syriac original (or Hebrew, but it does not appear that Hebrew was really used at the time to compose new works, except to sprinkle a few Hebrew words into Aramaic). I do not know why it was generally thought that Greek was the original language of composition, perhaps just because some of the Greek fragments are from very early in the 2nd century. If the manuscripts from ~100 are already translations of an earlier Semitic version, then this is confirmation that Thomas and Q are well-preserved 1st-century material.

Captain Howdy

It’s obvious to me that Jesus was actually Yeshu ben Pantera..and i’m not looking for a debate.

Robert Eckert

I have had the dubious pleasure of debating that guy on the Comparative Religion forum. He is an absolute raving lunatic.

AsthmaticDwarf

A terrific link, BareFM- thank you!! On answers-yahoo, Justin asks- Why is Scientology a cult? Scroll down a ways- *Very Big Sword* wipes out with a serious takedown, a $cilon faker!!

Personally, I’m stunned that South Florida as a whole is clear given how close to the promise land of crappy Clearwater we are.

WogRoxy

Just some Miami info, in case you were curious, the “church” bought the property (and from the address I knew it was huge money) back in ’76 for 425K, Today it’s valued at 2m practically. I may have to do a drive by one day to see if anyone is actually inside. Either way, quite the investment.

It’s basically located parallel to miracle mile, so there is a lot of foot traffic there, CRAZY, but if they don’t speak spanish they are toast.

cindyplahuta@msn.com

Wow! I just checked Craig’s List for the Southcoast Mission in Orange County, CA. My daughter is on staff there. In the months of April and May I was putting my own ads up on CL that looked like the Mission’s deceptive ads but with my story of Disconnection. As soon as I got one done, two more would be up. I also flagged the ads as spam.
When I say the ads were deceptive, I mean it! Most of them Never mentioned Scientology. They were for pregnant women, people that wanted a group, college students, etc.
There has not been one ad put up on Orange County Craigs List since Sept 30th!!!!! This is awesome news! Project Chanology, and Anonymous are totally awesome! I know this will wake my daughter up! Less people in the door, the doors will close! I feel so hopeful today that my daughter will be back by the Holidays! I will be able to take the candle out of the window! Thank you all!

Bury_The_Nuts

Yay! I am so happy to hear you so hopeful.
Yipee!

edit:
hey Dave…
Fuck you.

Verve

Yes, I also hope you have your daughter back soon.

And I’m with BTN here-
Dave… my monkeys are coming for you. Say hello to Karma The Just.

Kitty lover

May you and your daughter be united very soon. {{Oh, I can just picture the candle.}} Hugs to you across the miles.

My heart goes out to all the families who are torn apart by the Church of Scientology’s practice of Disconnection.

This is why.

Eclipse-girl

All of us wish for a quick reunion. We wish for a quick dissolution of the freaking colt.
I hope you get your (((HUGS))) soon

GlibWog

Oh Cindy.. OMG I hope she is home for the Holidays too.. In our thoughts.. and for me ..My prayers
((( HUGS)))) from a mother…

Cat Daddy

For great Justice !

IBBy

Alright, probably no bunker for me tonight cause I gots me a date, so keep up the good work everyone!

Eclipse-girl

Have a great time.

Bury_The_Nuts

Your pic kinda looks like Juliette Lewis in Kalifornia.

This was NOT meant to be a slam!!!
Wait: error…NBK.

Jo

Great movie.

Bury_The_Nuts

LOL, which one? both?

Jo

Kalifornia.

KJP in Portland

Oooh, oooh, oooh, give him hell! Have fun!

Jgg2012

Maybe we should simply ask Craigslist to alert everyone about phony Scientology ads. I don’t think we or Anonymous should lower ourselves to their level. Writing spoofs on satire sites is a good idea (it will come up in search engines) but its up to Craigslist to respond to the inundation of bogus ads, which affects their credibility.

Bury_The_Nuts

We have. Repeatedly.

Edit: Crickets!

jmh

I’d say at least ten of us have sent several e-mails. There are at least six news outlets that have asked CL for a statement and they have not responded to anyone. Google scientology and craigslist and you’ll see 15 or more sites carrying the stories from last week. Believe us when we tell you… Craigslist knows!

Bury_The_Nuts

Yeah, they KNOW. And they need to respond!!!
They are beginning to look like cult apologist’s by the silence!

KJP in Portland

Chicklets!

Jgg2012

And they have done nothing. Maybe we should spoof them also?

sugarplumfairy

If Craigslist cared about their credibility, they’d do something about it.. They’re as bad as co$.. Ok, that’s not right.. But still, It’s all about the money..

Bury_The_Nuts

That is why heat from the press is fun.

ThetaBara

They are SO NOT as bad as Co$. CL is kind of like that bulletin board they have at the hippie grocery store – anyone can post something and there is hardly any oversight. And it’s not really about money IMHO as most categories of ads are free to post. If anything, their lack of money means they don’t have the resources to keep a close eye on the free section.
CL started organically and they are really not in the business of policing their users.
Flagging tech seems to be the best option. I wont buy software but I’ll gladly ‘poon any ads brought to my attention.

sugarplumfairy

I have a friend involved with a group trying to get underage prostitution ads off craigslist.. I listen to her complain a lot about how uninterested and slow to respond CL is in helping them police the ads.. paid ads.. It has colored my opinion..

Bury_The_Nuts

As it should!!!

KJP in Portland

Hi SPF! I look at craigslist a lot over the past few years, mainly for antiques and stuff I collect, but I don’t think they police things very well at all. When I was doing my long search for good work, I swear, some of the job ads were bogus, too. It really frustrated me. EDIT: It really pissed me off; some of those job ads…

sugarplumfairy

So glad you don’t have to look at job ads any more..

Co$ is famous for bogus job ads.. “Receptionist wanted..” They don’t tell you it’s $50 a week and you pretty much have to sell your soul..

Poison Ivy

Yes, the human trafficking (sex, not Scientology) industry got a foothold in Craigslist early on and it still hasn’t cleaned itself up.

Disclaimer: I do not support or condone the use of flagging software. Use of this software can get your account closed or banned.

With that said, I can say that I learned much about how craigslist really works from reading the websites of those that create the software. I learned that craigslist has the lowest rating of customer service possible. I learned that getting a response from emailing craigslist is comparable to winning the lottery. I learned that your emails will be read, but there most likely won’t be a response.

“There are many Craigslists on the internet, each city has its own calibration depending upon the number of users, the number of flags is adjusted proportionately, automatically. Depending upon the competitiveness of the section, (number of users flagging each other) the threshold adjusts. They personally get involved when the crybabies who started it all send in emails. Then CL admins will watch, ghost, manipulate accounts and thresholds and manually override the automatic settings to confuse, deter, frustrate and infuriate you deliberately. They don’t email many responses, but they watch and read everything that comes their way. Every single account has its own massive hidden checklist of behaviors stored in its own section of their database. It keeps a record of how you post, and flag in every respect, how you log on, and whether or not you are engaging in commercial activities. As you violate their TOU, your record gets bad marks. If you post from a different ip than you created the account with.. your threshold will suffer a bit. You need to learn all of the hidden rules and secrets or your own behavior will damage your ability to post successfully.”

Bury_The_Nuts

You………ARE A ROCK STAR.!!!

KJP in Portland

Craigslist doesn’t police themselves for shit. Read their nasty personal sections and similar stuff. The place is an almost unregulated free for all. So, with that said, I’ll keep doing what I can (when reminded) to ‘just keep flagging, just keep flagging’!

“John Wayne Was A Nazi”
Awesome song by MDC (this, for my pal, Cap’n Howdy).

Missionary Kid

Wayne was a far right wingnut, IMO, but I would never characterize him as a Nazi.

WhereIsSHE

It’s a song, MK (not a personal opinion).
But it’s a kickass song!

Missionary Kid

I realize it’s a song, and it’s probably a good one, but I dislike mischaracterizations, even in titles.

WhereIsSHE

It wasn’t a serious characterization though.
You didn’t grow up on Punk rock, eh?

Missionary Kid

Nope, way before that. I had friends in punk bands, and even worked security for them when they brought Fear to town from L.A.

I realize they weren’t being serious. The problem is that I deal with people who have opinions close to those of Wayne. I object to their use of the terms socialist and communist because they have no idea of the definition of those terms. At the same time, calling someone a Nazi who is far right is the same type of misapplication of terms. I’m an equal opportunity stickler for insisting on the accuracy of terminology.

It’s also one of the biggest objections I have against $cions. You can call me a definition Nazi.

Captain Howdy

Actually Fear was a right wing band, at least the singer/leader Lee Ving is. Great band and Lee was a very pleasant guy when I met him but his politics were definitely out of flavor with most of the punks.

O’Crap! Yes, indeed. But I had in mind the other fellow that did musicals and acting, mainly in the 50s. Oh well…I’ll suddenly blurt his name out in a week or something!

Missionary Kid

Definitely not as good an actor, but Peter Lawford did a lot of musicals about that time.

KJP in Portland

Nah…I guess when my dad died in March, I lost a lot of my old movie memories with his passing. It was almost as if we shared each others’ brains.

Missionary Kid

I often watch Turner Classic Movies. The movies out of the 30s, 40s and 50s I got to see as a kid on TV because the studios wouldn’t release movies to TV until they’d been released for for 10 years. I got to see films like the Maltese Falcon and Bogey as Phillip Marlowe as ordinary films. There were also some real turkeys, too.

GlibWog

I’m sorry KJ.. : /
But on a brighter note.. Good Luck with your new Job.. Congrats..

Exterrier

OK, KJP, I have to ask somebody, and you seem pretty darn congenial. How does one get an avatar, or gravatar, or whatever? I have one I would use, but don’t know the process. Any advice for an analog guy in a digital world?

NormanTheGnome

That’s easy i’ll help you with that one.justgo to google search images.look for a picture you like say”funny looking terrier” for instance pick one,right click on the image then save as picture and it should come up in your picture library/file.then go to your disqus profile on here and add the photo through browse photos and Voila! your done.

Exterrier

thanks, I will do.

KJP in Portland

Well, tell Sherb that I said hello, please. She’s one of my champions here and has ALWAYS been extra nice to me!

Bury_The_Nuts

OK, I was trying to ignore and pacify.
(Ruby got me)

I am a dork like that.

But you people (U know who you are) ….are acting like kids who are mad cuz someone stole yer swing on the playground.
Knock it the fuck off.
if you want to box with me personally…bring it on.

But Tony’s stats are ROCKIN!
Is that not the POINT.?

anyhow…I love you all.

GET THE FUCK OVER IT.

Really, That IS all for tonight…heh heh

Jimmy Threetimes

I don’t know what you’re talking about, but now I am kinda mad because I didn’t know there were swings on the playground here.

KJP in Portland

I tried to post as ‘GUEST’ at work today. I failed…badly. I did; however, get into the Redwood City CL and Flagged away! I flagged and flagged! Keep putting up those links to what ads need to be flagged and I’ll be right there flagging those muthas asap!

I might be logging in at work soon, but for now, at least I’m reading and ‘liking’ as ‘guest’ while I’m at work!

So…Good evening everyone, great to be back at my ‘second home’ for the evening!

(((HUGS)))

K

Jo

Your fired, sorry Alan Sugar took over my body for a moment. Nice job, you get to read the bunker at work?

Yo, KJP, I missed your story, but got a couple glimpses of it. Is it posted anywhere? Like, the new job is you’re ‘starting over’, do I have that right?

KJP in Portland

Just starting over after 2 years on graveyard on a ‘Plan B’ job after leaving my old company 2 years ago. No biggee for asking. It’s nice to be productive again…

Jo

Now I feel bad, hope this makes sense of my terrible humour, been laughing at it all day.

KJP in Portland

I read when people are away from my office…shh!!!

stillgrace2

The last company I worked for directly had monitoring software. It kept track of all the internet sites visited during work hours. I found this out when my boss called me into his office and asked me if I had enjoyed last night’s “Lost” episode. Then he laughed. It was his way of letting me know that people’s internet usage was being tracked.

KJP in Portland

It’s really loose there. Other people play streaming music and stuff. So, I’ll keep reconnoitering the situation

AsthmaticDwarf

What Grace said. Plus mucho companies are tracking ‘every keystroke’, not only site visits. (I mean, just in case you wanna find out your co.’s policy)

I know…weirder every day. Much different town than when I grew up here.

WhereIsSHE

Do you know how much I hate the fact that we clash on the legal matters when I see you post cool things like this???
Can we agree to not discuss legal issues and just get along otherwise, please?

Robert Eckert

Uh, no. I do not like you as a human being, and have no interest in interacting with you except for your legal knowledge. The legal profession, like Scientology, acts on some people as a soul-stealing mindfuck, and you have reached OT8.

Jimmy Threetimes

You can’t post as “Guest” here. Those who appear to do so actually post from an account and immediately delete it, which leaves the comment up as coming from a “Guest”

Others have “Guest” as the “full name” in their profile, but are logged in on an account.

KJP in Portland

Makes sense from what I’ve seen. OK.

KJP in Portland

Did I show up and everyone ran away? Sheesh!

jmh

I’m here… catching up on the latest comments. How are you?

KJP in Portland

I’m good and enjoying your company!

Frank

If you are in Portland any chance of daytime photo’s showing a dead ideal-morgue. DM is always speaking about ideal orgs. By pics this can be shown to be a lie, so as often as possible would show those still left he is in fact lying.

KJP in Portland

I avoid ‘Overtown’ (Downtown) like the plague…the city has changed so much and all the bicyclists (bicycle nazis) think they own every square foot of asphalt there.

Maybe I’ll make a Saturday pilgrimage and do a drive by, and see how dead it is. I could stand nearby for an hour or so and count the foot traffic.

But I can tell you for certain; of all people I know around Portland; no one even talks about Scientology…so you can tell it must be real popular around here. Ha, even the newspaper (fish wrapper) doesn’t even cover them.

I think the city folk figured out they were whacko some 30+ years ago and just kinda chuckle whenever the name is brought up.

Frank

That is excellent intel as scientology made such a big thing of opening that org. It just gives those who are good with numbers additional information to shoot down the cult’s lies.

Missionary Kid

Bella spent some time checking out the org after the opening. She didn’t spent a whole bunch of time observing the Portland Ideal mOrg, but she did talk to the street people who hang around across the street, and they said that the place was basically dead.

Actual numbers would be nice, though.

KJP in Portland

Now that I’m on days, I’ll get real opportunities to go look at the place.

AsthmaticDwarf

Very importante, KJP, if you can.

KJP in Portland

I do kinda wanna see this new extravagance they ‘graced’ our downtown with. You’re on. I’ll check it out Friday night or Saturday.

AsthmaticDwarf

Smartphone camera too, eh?

IBBy

I’m back home, was just a quickie dinner since we’re both first shifters that get up at 4am. glamorous. good fun though and good dinner. I had the lamb

Eclipse-girl

I hope you had a nice time. Now get to bed

IBBy

yes maam! Just getting everything ready for the day and then off to bed!

KJP in Portland

What’d he have???

IBBy

the best view in the joint, duh

KJP in Portland

Was just checking…derp!

KJP in Portland

He got the seat with the window view?

I’m just messing with ya…’cause I like ya.

Been a long time since I encountered your combination of humor and wit, lol!

IBBy

well, I was sitting in front of the window, so pretty much yes

KJP in Portland

Double the fun! You better get ready for night-night!

IBBy

for the record he had rib eye. We went to a Basque place thats been in the city since 1948. Next time I’m getting dolled up in one of my vintage dresses

SandiCorrena

Yes, where is the night shift? Oh Kjp watch out for the internet police at work-one day at work I got an email from IT saying here’s all the websites your staff has been on today…….

aurora50

Disqus was not loading for past 15 mins or so…

Eclipse-girl

Oh, and that too.

Eclipse-girl

It is Wed night. It has been a long run of busy nights from the bunker. Some of us usually go to sleep around now.

KJP in Portland

Kiss my butt…a downie! Ah, that’s ok, I increasingly get the feeling I’m a pain in the butt or something.

KJP in Portland

And that’s what I get for undivided, absolute solidarity with everyone here.

KJP in Portland

I dunno MK, looks like I have a hater or something. Odd…I never, ever downvote a regular Bunkerite.

EnthralledObserver

You’re being targeted… someone definitely following you.

KJP in Portland

I’m not sure what to say…

I always lend a ‘like’ and a cheer for the cause. Never seen this before. Why don’t they just come out and tell me what pissed them off?

EnthralledObserver

Either OSA, or on OSA’s command or just a random amusing himself… just ignore, it’s no biggie. Don’t take it personally, as I definitely don’t believe it’s anything personal or specific to your comments, it’s just random nonsense.

KJP in Portland

EO…thank you for your support and kindness these past couple months (((hugs)))

EnthralledObserver

AsthmaticDwarf

I looked at all your posts. On my computer system I see no downvotes on your posts above this right here. That happened to me once; a downvote was there, then gone a minute or 2 later. And I’ve done it once: accidentally hit the downvote, noticed it a minute or 2 later, and took it off. Looks like that’s what happened to you. If not- please copy the post that has the downvote you saw and reply to this and paste it in. Okay?

KJP in Portland

I refreshed and they’re all gone now. How weird is THAT? I thought I wore out my welcome or something? Ok then, I guess all is cool or someone had a change of heart and reversed them.

EnthralledObserver

lol… I’ve seen both ups and downs come and go and come and go with refreshing… weird disqus glitch, me thinks.

AsthmaticDwarf

KJP, dude, I recommend you let go of the thought, “… wore out my welcome or something.” I see you as being highly thought of, with affection, by a lot of Bunker peeps. So- that’s a strength you have. And a downvote here and there don’t mean shite, brother.

Sibs

Holy shit, that down arrow appeared right as your comment came up on my feed! You probably shouldn’t think anything of it.

IBBy

if the bunker was tired of any of us, they’d let us know with more than a downvote. Either its a glitch or someone being a jackass. dont worry about it. stats are just up and down arrows, thats all

Exterrier

Maybe yer being gaslighted, KJP. Keep steady, reef the mainsail, and weather the storm of downies.

Mooser

And darn the torpedoes, in case any kids are listening.

EnthralledObserver

I see them… pretty much the ones from about an hour ago… but not so much since.

L. C. Spencer

Weird… I see exactly one downvote on every KJP comment in this thread.

L. C. Spencer

Hey, don’t take it to heart! It’s almost stat time, and prolly some poor staff underling somewhere just hates Portland

Missionary Kid

I countered it with an uppie.

KJP in Portland

Bless you, Sir! My comrade in arms!

Missionary Kid

I think the downie was a fat fingered one.

AsthmaticDwarf

You can rely on The Kid.

KJP in Portland

Where. Is. Everybody? Is there somewhere they go and I’m not allowed?

Missionary Kid

I think that the legal and celebrity news got everyone excited. Craigslist isn’t as sexy, so people are taking time to take a break.

EnthralledObserver

There are only so many comments you can make about the CL project, I think.

Dude- calm thyself (who said that!); the pace in the Bunker ebbs and flows. It’s slow late EST. Oz and NZealand might come on and post who knows.

EnthralledObserver

I think KJP was just nattering at his downie… not referring to his previous comment.

AsthmaticDwarf

Oh… I’m fading. Late here Eastern Standard Time. Ciao ~

EnthralledObserver

Night…

GlibWog

NEVAH! night xoxo yawnnnnnn

Nevermore

Some of us were asleep!

Mooser

“My stats have tanked anyway..”

Now you’ve done it. You’re not supposed to look at those. No good, and much harm, results from it. If you can forget such things as “stats” even exist, do so, and you will be a happier man, and get a heapin’ helpin’ of elan, to boot. You may have mooted a point, everybody has, but have you ever booted elan? It’s fun!

Eclipse-girl

That gives you times to actually read what happened during the day and not be worried about trying to keep up with new comments.

Its good. really it is.

EnthralledObserver

lol… true.

Inbtelligence

Fking LOVE what Tony writes about!!! <3

Watcher

Just flagged every add in the New Orleans and Baton Rouge area again. Got too many extended family members wasting their life with the Scientology pyramid scheme. Truth is that no one needs to do any of this and Scientology will still fail. They aren’t getting new members. New recruits are allowed to read the Google and Wikipedia and UB still. Only a matter of time before it all implodes.

AsthmaticDwarf

As the court cases unfold Fall 2013, there’s been mucho speculating on what Dave Savage Miscavage will do, in response; what with Tommy Butt-Boy Davis being deposed and Leah’s deposition. Davey has a monstrous man’s blueprint on what to do and how to treat people. Thanks to Bare Faced Messiah’s blog http://barefacedmessiah.wordpress.com/, here’s a brief sketch of how Lafayette Ronald handled his legal issue when the Federal Govt. was after his sebaceous-foreheaded cyst and fat arse:

In truth, Mary Sue [ Lafayette’s wife, Mrs. Hubbard, head of Guardian’s Office (GO) ]
had much to complain about, because she had no doubt
that she was going to have to take the rap for Operation Snow White.
‘Hubbard abandoned her’, said Ken Urquhart, ‘and made it quite clear
within the org that he had abandoned her. It’s the one thing I find hard
to forgive – that he was prepared to allow his wife to go to jail for
crimes he was equally guilty of. After the FBI raid I was put to work
making up reports to show that he did not know what was going on. In
other words, I was to cover his ass. He was privy to almost all of it
and was as guilty as Mary Sue.

1subgenius

Interesting because a feature of Narcissistic Personality Disorder is that the person will inevitably throw a friend “under the bus”. Eg. Mary Sue and LRH.

“There is also the success oriented narcissist. She will be your friend and keep you close to her as long as you are useful. Once you do not have anything more to offer and she has taken all they wanted from you, you are history. You are no longer desired, wanted, or sought.”

And I found the article’s discussion of when and how the disorder becomes fixed in a person’s psyche informative.

“In my work with extreme narcissist patients I have found that their emotional age and maturity corresponds to the age they experienced their major trauma. This trauma was devastating to the point it almost killed that person emotionally. The pain never was totally gone and the bleeding was continuous. In order to survive, this child had to construct a protective barrier that insulates him/her from the external world of people. He generalized that all people are harmful and cannot be trusted.”

I was reminded of a scene in an old British documentary interview with Hubbard, where he was asked if he was mad. You can see some mental gyrations going on in Hubbard’s brain, and then he attempts to make a glib joke/profound statement about the question by saying, “Oh, the one man who thinks he isn’t mad, is mad.”

From the article:

“Try to get close or ask personal questions as to how he is internally doing and feeling and you will find is that he will quickly distract you. They will sidestep the question with another joke, making you suddenly forget what you were asking. Narcissists can be very skilled at dodging and ducking personal questions. If you press them, they will then slot you as “unsafe” and will begin to avoid you and exclude you from their life.”

If I recall correctly, Hubbard took some long solo sea voyages as a child. I suspect that some very traumatic events occurred.

In learning what little I have about Narcissistic Personality Disorder (I believe the term itself has been abandoned recently in the new Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), I have gained some measure of sympathy for those suffering from it. Something really bad happened to them as a child. Something really bad.
This of course should not be taken as tolerance for their behavior. It just has helped me get over being angry at them personally, as with a (former) “friend” of mine.

Exterrier

Yes, I had to research that disorder quite extensively to put in perspective somebody like that in my life. It was a tough one. And they are just on the edge of psychopath, actually, when they go malignant. One must carry a ten foot pole and use it if you are going to deal with them.

D.Y.G.

A narcissitic personality has no empathy for others. They don’t bond emotionally to anyone so they discard people whenever their use-value is consumed, and especially when their inappropriate behaviors are about to be exposed.

Hubbard threw Mary Sue under the bus because he didn’t give a shit about her and her value to him was gone. As mentioned in your post, it’s certain that he didn’t trust her a but because all narcissists are inherently paranoid and convinced at some point that people in their inner circle is out to get them.

“Try to get close or ask personal questions as to how he is internally
doing and feeling and you will find is that he will quickly distract
you. They will sidestep the question with another joke, making you
suddenly forget what you were asking. Narcissists can be very skilled at
dodging and ducking personal questions. If you press them, they will
then slot you as “unsafe” and will begin to avoid you and exclude you
from their life.”

Even better questions to ask a narcissist are “How do you think that makes me feel?” and “Can you put yourself in my shoes?”, then wait for the blank stare and ridiculous answer.

1subgenius

One “good” thing about certain conditions like this, is that it makes things pretty predictable, from your point of view.
And someone suggested elsewhere, easier to manipulate.

1subgenius

I have a working theory that auditing implants Hubbard’s brain problems.

KJP in Portland

Oh, I am going to go to bed now. Thanks for the company. I’ll be peeking in as guest tomorrow at new job. Hope we have another great post by Tony! Goodnight from Portland to all my friends here at THE BUNKER.

(((hugs)))

EnthralledObserver

G’night

AsthmaticDwarf

Dang!! I was fading out here in the pup-tent by the Bunker, nodding off, and — shazaaam!! abracada-dang!!! All of a sudden I received communicaton. “Hallooooooo~ you there~ halloooooooooo. I’m here along your alimentary canal… And I wanna blow… And I need you to ask me… What am I… Who am I … and then snap | zoom | varoom | I’ll be off and blown!!! Off to that hospital a couple blocks away. Grab me a new meat body!!

It was this BT. Dag-nabbit !!!!!!!

Krista

It’s funny to read the email, I am happy we are having an effect. There are only a handful of ads left in Sacramento, really good to see!

Has anyone noticed that leah looks different now? Here eyes have a bit of sparkle now. Before she had the lights are on no ones home look

L. C. Spencer

I just noticed that about Katie recently too. She glows now!

Tory Christman

This tends to happen once one gets OUT of $cientology! I know…I was “in” for 30 years, finally woke up, escaped out (literally) and oh my gawd! What a shock to find out what a wonderful world it is out here. That’s why I call it the Scio-Truman Show. Love to ALL Tory/Magoo

L. C. Spencer

Tory, you ABSOLUTELY glow! I could read a book by your smile – you could light up the Bunker! Big hugs to you and thank you for *everything* you do to help others recover

Should I get one now or wait a few weeks and get a new, better one?
Decisions, decisions…

Exterrier

Wow, great video. And people thought Timothy Leary was a little far out.

Scientology: It makes LSD unnecessary….

Nevermore

LSD is the better proposition!

Exterrier

So true. With LSD you get to “drop out” and nobody phones you daily and fills your mailbox to get you back.

Thanks for the Avatar advice, and hopefully that does the trick for me.

Nevermore

BTW, you were asking about avatars. On the same line of the page as My Disqus, there’s a little ‘gear’ symbol – at the right hand side of the page, Click that, click on your name and then edit profile. There’s a ‘avatar’ tab, that will let you load one up.

Nevermore

Wouldn’t give them 50 pence for it!

Couch_Incident

Buy the Ducati!

Snippy_X

A fun and inexpensive holiday project with the kids might be another choice.