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With today's negative news all over the media on MS, data monitoring issue has surfaced and begin to get another criticism wave. It is like what Apple experienced with its iPhone. New technology vs. privacy. What do our MS owners react on this issue?

July10Models | 2013/02/11 - 17:28

Don't slender tesla and they won't call you out. This is 2013 we are way past 1984. Seriously I just shared some very personal financial information with a notary public and a bank employee. How is that different from the information tesla retrieve from the car for maintenance.

TonyF | 2013/02/11 - 17:40

Are they currently logging everyone's info and just not 'viewing' it? Or are they not logging each car unless we sign a release allowing them to log? I kind of hope they are currently logging my info so if I have some trouble with my car, I can ask them to look at the log and try to figure it out.

kublai | 2013/02/11 - 17:56

Per Elon's tweet-

Tesla data logging is only turned on with explicit written permission from customers, but after Top Gear BS, we always keep it on for media.

bfranks273 | 2013/02/11 - 17:56

Its sort of like the lady I knew that was sure the NSA was watching her. Is there really any value? worth the bandwidth, management, and data storage? Seriously? At best they want to count miles and look for errors. However I will note that you could cut it off in the roadster, but not the MS. So maybe you are right after all. Quick, Look out your front window, see that guy to the left?

Brian H | 2013/02/11 - 18:33

Elon specified they do not access logs without specific written permission -- except for the media, after the Top Gear sham empty battery show.

Brian H | 2013/02/11 - 18:34

Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk
.
"Tesla data logging is only turned on with explicit written permission from customers, but after Top Gear BS, we always keep it on for media."

noel.smyth | 2013/02/11 - 18:49

Um, Tesla is not the only car manufacturer that knows where its cars are.. A friend just purchased a lexus, they have same capability.

Superliner | 2013/02/11 - 18:59

Not to worry "nickniketown@gm" Most of the same information can be collected from your ICE as well (GM OnStar CAN collect real time data as to what the vehicle is doing) Since the implementation of EEC III and EEC IV nearly two decades ago. The onboard powertrain control modules have had data logging capability and that information can be seen when connected to a scan tool

Each time your mechanic connects a scan tool he can see exactly what the car or truck was doing when a fault code / crash detection / etc. occurs. The modern PCM is akin to a black box in an airliner and the information it contains has been available to "anyone" with a scan tool for decades and in GM's case over the air via OnStar.

This is NOT new. Relax.

Kleist | 2013/02/11 - 19:05

The owner decides if he wants the tracking capability to be turned on or not. As I understand this was a Tesla owned car given for a test drive. I don' t think there is any argument here.

Ron5 | 2013/02/11 - 19:10

We were all given a document to sign with the purchase paperwork. It gave permission for Tesla to monitor us (for the car to send Tesla information). I signed it, though nobody explicitly told me I had to. Did anyone not sign it?

DJung | 2013/02/11 - 19:13

From Elon in his interview with CNBC: "BECAUSE WHENEVER WE DO MEDIA TEST DRIVES WE ALWAYS TURN ON DETAILED VEHICLE LOGGING. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS TURNED ON FOR CUSTOMERS UNLESS WE GET THEIR EXPLICIT WRITTEN PERMISSION. SO I WANT TO BE CLEAR, WE'RE VERY SENSITIVE TO PRIVACY AND WE DON'T DO THIS WITH ANY CUSTOMER CARS UNLESS THEY GIVE US EXPLICIT LITERALLY WRITTEN PERMISSION WITH A SIGNATURE."
All modern cars have this capability so that when you bring the vehicle in for maintenance, they can see what is wrong with your car. And that phone in your pocket is also able to track your every move. So what if Tesla and Verizon knows I was at Starbucks at 8:40 today? If "Big Brother" wanted to know if you were at Starbucks, they could just contact your cell phone provider to see where you were. As long as your not involved in illegal activity, you should be fine.

Superliner | 2013/02/11 - 19:18

I'll Gladly sign, on delivery. If it will help Tesla improve the product

Think you have privacy? Google yourself, you might be amazed at the information that is out there.

bradslee | 2013/02/11 - 19:47

Isn't it true that when we decide to buy MS, one of the amazing features of MS that attracts us is its easy of use that likes an iPhone? If we can accept our 4G phone with all sorts of tracking functions, why are we bothered by MS with the similar function? Even when you ride a horse, someone will see the trail.

olanmills | 2013/02/11 - 20:26

There's so much data, that if we volunteer to share it, I want Tesla to provide interesting ways to play with it. You could make some cool apps both for indivulized data and aggregate data from all Tesla drivers.

For example, and this is just off the top of my head, what if there was a "heat" map that showed Wh/mi? "Cool" areas would indicate routes that are more efficient to drive, "hot" areas would probably coincide with higher speed limit roads and large hills, but also, I'm sure you would also see trends that you didn't expect. It would be interesting.

If there was an API, I'm sure people would come up with all kinds of things.

I think there should be two APIs, one where you could access detailed data logs for your own car, authenticated and authorized with your Tesla account, and another API where you could receive anonymized data (like the heat map idea), but you wouldn't be able to get anything that's potentially individualized, like the specific route a single car drove, even if there was no name or ID attached to the route.

TikiMan | 2013/02/11 - 20:36

LOL! No ONE in American as any real privacy, unless you live off the grid (i.e. no bank account, no cell phone, no credit cards, no passport, no DLR, no home phone, no electrical power, no gas, no water, no sewage, no trash pickup, no mortage, no loans, no guns, no car, no airflight, no train travle, no bus travle, etc).

Tesla monitering your MS is the LEAST of your worries IF you are worried about people finding you, or knowing what you are doing.

I'm sure Chris Dorner isn't having an easy life right now.

gammd | 2013/02/11 - 21:08

Drove this weekend from Raleigh to Columbia. Had to charge each way at a public (J1772) station. Slow at 19 mi/hr and 30 A. Inconvenient but not a real problem.

The 'SuperCharger' network should solve most of these problems.

We all have data tracked all the time: iPhone, Debit Cards, ATM withdrawals - not sure why the car is really different. Furthermore if Tesla has all of the various vehicles consumption data then improvements in software management and 'SuperCharger' network station placement will be facilitated.

Had I had access to one of the Tesla network stations the trip would have been identical to an ICE trip.

Robert22 | 2013/02/12 - 00:15

As mentioned above, we all gave Tesla free reign to acquire personal data on everything we do with the car
(and more )when we signed the MVPA. I am curious however to know what the difference is between data logging and acquiring every blessed piece of data generated (which we all gave Tesla written permission to collect).

I did ask Tesla before taking delivery of the car if they planned on handing over "black box" data to insurance companies which frequently use this information to establish culpability. I was told they would not hand this information over without a subpoena. On the brighter side, The ability of the car to be tracked via GPS might allow for a "LoJack"- type insurance discount.

Brian H | 2013/02/12 - 01:49

Robert22;
That's "rein". No 'g'! Horses, not kings.

It's comforting to know that the data is available to the driver, too. I was once nailed by a driver jumping out of line at a feeder intersection I was cautiously crossing. I had right of way, etc., etc., but the (gov't) insurance office called me "70% responsible". >:( I'd've loved to be able to provide an exact re-creation of the accident!

bobinfla | 2013/02/16 - 19:19

In the week I've had my car, I had noticed that when charging it appeared to stop and start numerous times. Not a big issue, since it was always fully charged by morning. I spoke to the Service Center today, he checked the logs, touched base with Engineering and a couple hours later I had a firmware update for my second charger that seems to have completely fixed the issue. One phone call on a Saturday and my car was fixed while sitting in my driveway. So I say do all the logging you want, Tesla, and thanks for being able to use that data to help me out.

Funny, after the NYT article and follow-on, I mentioned to my wife that I had no qualms whatsoever with Tesla tracking all my driving, but wouldn't trust my government or insurance company with this kind of data.

Brian H | 2013/02/16 - 21:20

bobinfla;
Would you trust her? Will she have the App? Hmmmm.... ;) :D

Alex K | 2013/02/16 - 21:53

@bobinfla | FEBRUARY 16, 2013; I mentioned to my wife that I had no qualms whatsoever with Tesla tracking all my driving, but wouldn't trust my government or insurance company with this kind of data.

Yes, but I'm sure Tesla would hand over the information with a court order.

Robert22;
No, nowhere does it say or imply "accepted". Simply that misuse is increasing somewhat. Given the free-form education most juveniles under about age 60 got, it's not surprising.

dtesla | 2013/02/17 - 08:05

So what is covered by "data logging" and what is not?

I e-mailed Tesla about a problem with my MS (the door just opened on it's own... fortunately I was not moving at the time). They called me back and said they pulled the from my car and they saw the problem, they had ordered the part and wanted to schedule an appointment for repair. At no time did I give them permission to access my car remotely.

When my car was being serviced the repair tech gave me a nice tour of the Service Center (I liked the SC). When we got to some batters from the beta cars I ask some questions and was told if my battery faults Tesla will be notified and I would then be called. Once again, without written permission.

For the record I have no problem with any actions by Tesla relative to my repair. And it made the repair process much easier.

I would assume making my data logs public to my insurance company or others is only a court order away.

cloroxbb | 2013/02/17 - 08:32

@dtesla
Im guessing that you asking them to troubleshoot your car gives them permission to access data logs?

jjaeger | 2013/02/17 - 10:50

dtesla - have a detailed read through your signed MVPA to address the couple of questions you raised.

July10Models | 2013/02/17 - 12:30

The car phones home when it is in trouble. You already gave Tesla written permission to repair your car.

Amped | 2013/02/17 - 14:31

The more info an engineer has, the easier it is to find root cause.
Long term historical data is even better.

@brian h, you should really give up on calling out spelling.
This is the second string I've noticed you do it on & it's getting old.

Captain_Zap | 2013/02/17 - 15:27

I was pretty upset when I read this on page 24 of the "Model S Owner Safety Information booklet":

"Tesla does not disclose the data recorded in your vehicle to any third party except when:

• An agreement or consent from the vehicle’s owner (or the leasing company for a leased vehicle) is obtained.

• Officially requested by the police or other authorities.

• Used as a defense for Tesla in a lawsuit.

• Ordered by a court of law.

• Used for research purposes without disclosing details of the vehicle owner or identification information.

• Disclosed to a Tesla affiliated company, including their successors or assigns, or our information systems and data management providers.

In addition, Tesla does not disclose the data recorded to an owner unless it pertains to a non-warranty repair service and in this case, will disclose the data that is related to the repair."

====
I asked for information about their data collection and whether I could opt out when I ordered the car. They said that they didn't have a privacy policy for anything other than the website at that time. If I had the information when I was making my decision it probably would have been a deal breaker for me until they had a acceptable privacy policy.