The thing is, C isn't the one that is insisting on a date change...and C is really the only one with a conflict. K's parents are being ridiculous at best and if I were C, I'd be scared to death and how involved and present they plan on being during and immediately after the birth of my baby. Heck, C may even want them to be distracted by K's wedding.

I don't think K was rude not to consult with her family members before choosing a date. She's obviously not springing this on them at the last minute (she's at least 6 months out, right?). She chose a date that was important to her and her FH and then told her family the date. If she's expected to find an ideal time for her immediate family, her FH's immediate family...then where does it end. She can't forget about her best friends, grandparents, Aunt Ethel who's always been there for her, etc.This is her special day and if it's important to her friends and family, they can start making arrangements and fixing their schedules so they can be there...and if they can't, that's ok too. But it's pretty awful, IMO, for anyone to say "Change your wedding date to accommodate me."

And I'm trying to picture how this conversation with C was supposed to go. "C, I know you are trying to get pregnant. How's that going? I'm planning my wedding and I need there not to be any conflicts. What date works for you?"

"Well K, thanks for asking. Not pregnant yet, but I'm going to keep trying so can you hold off until I'm successful and then plan for something a good 6 to 9 months later to make sure that everything is fine with the baby and I'll be up for going."

It just doesn't seem to work. Since K and C are already discussing ways for C to see the ceremony, then I think that K is in the clear. She knows her sister cares and wants to be part of it in any way she can. If I were K, that would mean as much to me as her attending.

If only we could say her parents (who have zero conflict) are being that reasonable.

I guess that perspective is based on family dynamics. In my family it would be perfectly reasonable to expect the mom and grandfather to be at the hospital when the baby is born and to be available to help out when the baby comes home.

If that is the case in this family, the mom is going to spend the next 6-7 months hoping that the baby doesn't come until after the wedding. I know I'd feel aweful if I had to tell my DD who had just delivered a child "Sorry, sweetie, I've got to leave now to go to your sister's wedding." While I'm sure my DD would understand, it would still be hard to do. Or worse for them to get a call during the ceremony that the baby been delivered, but the grandparents can't leave because they are at a wedding or if they did leave, they'd feel like they were abadoning one DD for the other.

That's just additional worry and stress I'd never had wanted to put my mom through. And my mom would have stressed about it. She never wanted one of us to feel less loved then another so trying to balance to things like this would have drove her a little bonkers.

It's customary in my family as well. But that doesn't mean the family is on lockdown during that time either. Like I said earlier, I'm sure it would be a lot for the parents to both help their older daughter prepare for her wedding and their younger daughter to prepare for a baby, but it's not impossible. If C was really expecting that her parents be there 24/7 during and after the birth, she's being unreasonable....yet, she doesn't seem to be the one that even cares. So it seems to me this is more about the parents putting importance on one event and stating that it trumps all others. It doesn't. As a matter of fact the wedding date is a known, so C can already be certain that the day of the wedding and possibly even the day before, her parents will be attending to her sister. If she hasn't had the baby yet, then great. And if she has, then she knows her and her DH are either on their own or will rely on help from his family or friends that aren't at the wedding.

The only possible conflict I can see is if she happens to be in labor the day of the wedding, but again...what is the grandparents role? Sure it's nice to have them there waiting in the lobby or even holding her hand during delivery, but it's not necessary. Again, I think that anyone who thinks that everyone else has to be there 100% for them to help them care for/celebrate a new baby is unreasonable.

And why would a parent feel awful for leaving a daughter alone to care for and bond with her new baby for a few hours but not awful in missing her own daughter's wedding? If I had two daughters (or two children), as a parent, I would never minimize a life event of one in favor of the other (I hope). I think a better reaction from her parents would have been "Wow! What great news! A marriage and a baby the same week. I'm so excited for both of you and happy to help you in any way that I can. I'm sure we'll all be exhausted that week from all the big changes, but what a good exhausted."

Really, the only consideration that K and C should make for each other at this point is to be sure not to schedule baby and wedding showers on the same day.

ETA: I think that the mom can stress about it all she wants. I know I would love to be in the room (or just outside it) the day my first grandchild arrives, but to expect my other children to rearrange their lives to save me from worrying about something like that is selfish. For the bolded, I think asking/expecting a daughter to move a wedding date so that I could be available 'just in case' my other daughter has a baby that day, is making it look like I love one more than the other. Is it really sending a message of "non-love" to attend a daughter's wedding and then go to the hospital after to coo over my hours old grandchild? Is that few hours really going to hurt my relationship with my other daughter or even the grandchild? If so, they are the ones that are being unreasonable, not the one who didn't postpone her wedding for 6 months.

And FWIW, my younger sister was 4 or 5 months pregnant with her second child during my wedding. We actually had to get her a new dress at the last minute because the one we had for her didn't fit. She also had some complications that caused us to have her sit vs stand during the ceremony (she was in the bridal party). She wasn't pregnant when we announced the wedding (but I also didn't consult her first). And if I had waited for her to stop having babies before I got married (she had them every 18 months to 2 years apart and pretty much in the 'trying' stage the whole time), instead of getting married 13 years ago, I would have gotten married 6 years ago.

And when I was pregnant, we planned for my whole family to be there for the birth. Instead, we delivered 6 weeks early. My parents were in another country on vacation, my brother wasn't due to arrive in town for another 6 weeks, and my sister was at some event for one of her children. Life happens...and not always how we plan.

I have mixed feelings about this one. To me, a wedding date is chosen AFTER discussion with parents on both sides. If certain people are essential to you to have at the wedding, you would discuss the date with them first. You don't just announce a date and expect everyone to fall in line.

Really? It didn't even occur to me to consult my parents. Perhaps if I was choosing a date quite close, I might but I picked a date nearly 1 year away. It was unlikley that our parents would have had plans that far ahead without us being aware of them already.

There was a lack of communication on both sides. K didn't want to say anything until they had the date locked in. C most likely didn't want to say anything until they were sure, or until three months had passed, or something like that.

And K could have picked a date two years out, and C could still be expecting a baby that week.

Life happens.

If C isn't upset and K isn't upset, I think the parents are rude to make a big deal of it. The parents are also rude to even imply that K is only deserving of a courthouse marriage.

The parents should make contingency plans. If it does happen that C goes into labor the day of the wedding, the mom stays with C and provides support. The dad goes to the church and walks K down the aisle. It's not ideal, it's not what all parties would like. But it's not the end of the world, either.

...And I'm trying to picture how this conversation with C was supposed to go. "C, I know you are trying to get pregnant. How's that going? I'm planning my wedding and I need there not to be any conflicts. What date works for you?"

"Well K, thanks for asking. Not pregnant yet, but I'm going to keep trying so can you hold off until I'm successful and then plan for something a good 6 to 9 months later to make sure that everything is fine with the baby and I'll be up for going."

It just doesn't seem to work...

well yeah that's a weird conversation.

but hundreds of millions of people have totally non-weird conversations about their wedding plans every day.K: So we are thinking of mid-October for the wedding, its not planned for sure yet, but we'll be trying to lock down a date by next week... we're just checking to see if anyone important to us has any conflicts around then.

C: Mid-October? Hmmm, ok... but just to be candid, we have been trying to get pregnant for a while and if all goes as planned we might not be able to make it then, as I'd be due around then... no official news yet though [big grin]

I think that's a weird conversation to have too. If I were K, I'd be wondering what she meant (and if it were the relationship I have with my sister, I'd come right out and ask). But what if K said "Oh wow...that's exciting! Of course I'd love to have you at my wedding...obviously...but if you can't come because of a baby I would certainly understand"...would you consider her rude? When someone announces something like a pregnancy, you're not talking about a conflict of a short period of time...(This isn't a long planned family vacation, or a birthday party conflict)...it's a baby. The birth date is unknown, the circumstances are unknown, the health of the mother and baby are unknown. Asking someone to postpone a wedding to accommodate the birth of a baby is not easy. It's not moving it to the next weekend or even the next month. To be sure there are absolutely no conflicts at all, K would have to move her wedding out at least 6 months (late enough that the baby is born, C and the baby's health are known/planned around, and probably too early for C to be pregnant again...though even that can't be guaranteed). And I think that's an awful lot to expect of someone. It would be easier and more gracious to say "I'm bummed I can't be there, but want to help you as much as I can. If there's a way for me to see the ceremony, I'd love that!"

I still think that unless for some reason K has already paid a considerable nonrefundable deposit people will question why she does't just change the date. Of course she doesn't have to. But I personally think it's odd and apparently so do her parents.

When I saw K had "already started arrangements," I took it as they made deposits (non-refundable). If they switch the date, they could be out a lot of money. Are the parents willing to reimburse K is that happens?

A wedding only takes at max 12 hours of the parent's time, it could even be less if the day is arranged so they can leave the events after dinner. I don't see how a grandparent needs to be at the mom-to-be's side 100% of the time and cannot take a little break to attend their other kid's wedding.

My Mom was in the Philipines for a friend's wedding 2 weeks before my due date. She had booked the trip before I was expecting and it she had promised a friend to go. I certainly didn't have a problem with it but other people seemed to, talking about my mother should be there just in case the baby was early.

I think in these parent's case the problem is they had two children and can only seem to prioritize around one child.

In my family if the parents didn't come no one who think "why didn't you change the date (as you need to book most wedding venues a year in advance and babies take less than a year)" but why were the parents so cruel to not come. No one would expect the mom-to-be to put her baby making on hold for a wedding so the same goes for a wedding. If it was such an issue to these parents when the bride got engaged the parents should have told the sister not to try for baby until after the wedding.

My coworker and her fiance planned to be married on the anniversary of their first date (early September). His parents were planning to go on a cruise a few weeks later (early October), and asked them to bump it up a few weeks for financial purposes (since they aren't paying for much or traveling anywhere I am assuming a big wedding gift, that is an assumption on my part though). The couple accomodated and moved the wedding up to mid August. Since then they have been "forced" to: add people to the wedding party, choose a different color scheme, use the flowers Grandma approved, putting off the honeymoon to take a cruise with his parents--yes, the October cruise (at least Coworker, the bride, refused to share the suite)...every week I hear, in casual conversation, about one more thing she's caved on for family unity.

In short, the word "no" is not rude, particularly when followed with "I'm afraid that won't be possible." If K caves on something important to them, where will it end? And this situation starts out with parents who already don't seem to respect the choices being made (white wedding).

Logged

“A real desire to believe all the good you can of others and to make others as comfortable as you can will solve most of the problems.” CS Lewis

...And I'm trying to picture how this conversation with C was supposed to go. "C, I know you are trying to get pregnant. How's that going? I'm planning my wedding and I need there not to be any conflicts. What date works for you?"

"Well K, thanks for asking. Not pregnant yet, but I'm going to keep trying so can you hold off until I'm successful and then plan for something a good 6 to 9 months later to make sure that everything is fine with the baby and I'll be up for going."

It just doesn't seem to work...

well yeah that's a weird conversation.

but hundreds of millions of people have totally non-weird conversations about their wedding plans every day.K: So we are thinking of mid-October for the wedding, its not planned for sure yet, but we'll be trying to lock down a date by next week... we're just checking to see if anyone important to us has any conflicts around then.

C: Mid-October? Hmmm, ok... but just to be candid, we have been trying to get pregnant for a while and if all goes as planned we might not be able to make it then, as I'd be due around then... no official news yet though [big grin]

I think that's a weird conversation to have too. If I were K, I'd be wondering what she meant (and if it were the relationship I have with my sister, I'd come right out and ask). But what if K said "Oh wow...that's exciting! Of course I'd love to have you at my wedding...obviously...but if you can't come because of a baby I would certainly understand"...would you consider her rude? When someone announces something like a pregnancy, you're not talking about a conflict of a short period of time...(This isn't a long planned family vacation, or a birthday party conflict)...it's a baby. The birth date is unknown, the circumstances are unknown, the health of the mother and baby are unknown. Asking someone to postpone a wedding to accommodate the birth of a baby is not easy. It's not moving it to the next weekend or even the next month. To be sure there are absolutely no conflicts at all, K would have to move her wedding out at least 6 months (late enough that the baby is born, C and the baby's health are known/planned around, and probably too early for C to be pregnant again...though even that can't be guaranteed). And I think that's an awful lot to expect of someone. It would be easier and more gracious to say "I'm bummed I can't be there, but want to help you as much as I can. If there's a way for me to see the ceremony, I'd love that!"

Nothing in life can be planned months in advance without life possibly stepping in and making scrap of plans, but I totally disagree one can't plan around a due date. If the sister is due Oct 1, and her mother, and other females by blood on her mothers side all have a history of giving birth late, then you assume Oct 1-30 for the birth and plan for Sept or November. If the female record is for early births, you assume Sept 1-Oct 1 for the birth. If there is no pattern, you assume Sept 14 to Oct 14 for the birth.

Might you miss the target? Of course you might. And the sister might very well still not be able to attend even if it works out to 4 weeks before or after. But at least you took the due date into consideration to try to minimize (not eliminate, just minimize) the conflict. Planning is not an absolute. But just because you can't plan something absolute doesn't mean you should not bother planning at all.

Not that anyone has to. But if people's attendance is important to you, that's what you do. My DH and I spoke with our 4 sets of parents (incl steps) and a total of 6 sets of siblings before we set our date. we didn't ask everyone we ended up inviting, and we didn't let everything effect us (for example one sibling has school age kids and would have to travel to get to our wedding, oh well, we didn't want to plan around school holidays) but we took our nearest and dearest into consideration before anything was set. And we would have graciously accepted a decline in we'd gotten one.

K's parents aren't taking her wedding seriously, and that's upsetting for sure. But K didn't take their attendance very seriously if she failed to consult them prior to locking in dates. Its a two-way street.

But it's not just a month. If you're seriously going to try to accommodate a pregnancy, then it's shortsighted to consider just the actual birth in that calculation. The month before a baby is due can be hellish for the MTB. She may not be feeling well enough to attend (that's actually likely) or even on bed rest. And the months after that can be even more difficult. There's breastfeeding issues, there's not wanting to expose the baby to germs or put them in the care of others, there's having a newborn at the wedding, and many other things. If you have to plan a month just for the birth, then think about the month before the birth as well as several weeks after and even then, you are likely to miss the target. So, yeah, you can try to minimize the impact but if you're going to truly try to minimize it, you're looking at a several month window at least. It's unreasonable for someone to think that anyone should postpone a wedding or plan around something with that much uncertainty ...especially when that person isn't even the one having the baby. And as nice as it may be for someone to attempt to make that kind of accommodation, it certainly shouldn't be a requirement.

I'm sure if K really truly wanted her parents there, she could accommodate them. But, honestly, it doesn't surprise me that she doesn't want to. They sound horrible. They don't listen to her when she says she's not having a courthouse wedding. They minimize her wedding due to her age (which is a normal age to marry). They demand that she "should have known" her sister would get pregant. And they pretty much put a damper on her whole wedding date announcement.

The only person that has a real conflict is C...and K and C seem to have found a way to work around it that works for them. Her parents insisting that their availability for the birth of their grandchild be The.Most.Important.Thing.Ever really does paint them as unreasonable, inconsiderate, and even rude. They expect K to change her wedding date so that they can available in case C goes into labor, but she doesn't have to postpone the wedding so that C could also attend? (see above on the real time frame she'd have to plan around).

I wonder what they expect if K and C ever end up pregnant at the same time? That they discuss their reproductive schedules and coordinate their pregnancies around each other so the grandparents can be sure to be present for each birth?...and it wouldn't surprise me if C got first dibs on that as well (from the parents' perspective).

I don't blame K for not caving one bit. As other posters have pointed out, sometimes changing the date just isn't that easy - where I live, popular wedding venues can be booked more than a year in advance. If K and her FH have already started making arrangements, it may not be as easy to change things as some posters have assumed.

I'd sort of recommend that K enjoy her wedding, spend time with C at another time if C isn't able to attend...and seriously consider giving her parents the cut direct, or at least seriously reducing contact to the absolute minimum required to maintain a relationship with C. It will probably save K some heartache, or at least some headaches, in the long run.

Coming at this from the perspective of someone who is due in 10 days and has two weddings she's been invited to (tomorrow and Saturday) I don't blame K for not moving her wedding date.

One of the weddings was planned 2+ years out - the date was picked right around the time Husband and I were having our first wedding anniversary. We found out about my pregnancy and looked at the calendar - oh hell Star's due the same week that BIL is getting married! So we called BIL and FSIL and let them know that there's a niece/nephew incoming and that s/he is likely to appear around the time of their wedding. We also let everyone else know about our expected due date around the same time, and although MIL is a little saddened that her eldest son won't be at her youngest son's wedding (it's a 9 hour drive away) she accepts it for what it is. BIL and FSIL are happy for us and really don't mind that Baby is due then; like FSIL said to me - babies will do what they want!

I never in a bajillion years expected her to change anything because of me!

The other wedding (tomorrow) is local, as in, I could walk to the ceremony location even though I'm 38+ weeks. So, unless I go into labour tonight, we'll be attending. This wedding was planned in a matter of months, the date was picked around Christmas and the bride was well aware of my due date when she chose it. She knew up front that our attendance was 'baby permitting' and has no issue with it either.

In this situation it does sound like it's the parents who have the issue and would not be happy even if K did move her wedding; because if she moves it earlier, there is still a chance that the baby might come early, and if she moves it later, then "How can you expect your sister to bring Precious Grandbaby out into the Big Bad World when s/he is so tiny?" I think K is doing completely the right thing and as long as her sister has no issue, and K is aware that C's attendance is 'baby permitting', then the problem disappears.

Coming at this from the perspective of someone who is due in 10 days and has two weddings she's been invited to (tomorrow and Saturday) I don't blame K for not moving her wedding date.

One of the weddings was planned 2+ years out - the date was picked right around the time Husband and I were having our first wedding anniversary. We found out about my pregnancy and looked at the calendar - oh hell Star's due the same week that BIL is getting married! So we called BIL and FSIL and let them know that there's a niece/nephew incoming and that s/he is likely to appear around the time of their wedding. We also let everyone else know about our expected due date around the same time, and although MIL is a little saddened that her eldest son won't be at her youngest son's wedding (it's a 9 hour drive away) she accepts it for what it is. BIL and FSIL are happy for us and really don't mind that Baby is due then; like FSIL said to me - babies will do what they want!

I never in a bajillion years expected her to change anything because of me!

The other wedding (tomorrow) is local, as in, I could walk to the ceremony location even though I'm 38+ weeks. So, unless I go into labour tonight, we'll be attending. This wedding was planned in a matter of months, the date was picked around Christmas and the bride was well aware of my due date when she chose it. She knew up front that our attendance was 'baby permitting' and has no issue with it either.

In this situation it does sound like it's the parents who have the issue and would not be happy even if K did move her wedding; because if she moves it earlier, there is still a chance that the baby might come early, and if she moves it later, then "How can you expect your sister to bring Precious Grandbaby out into the Big Bad World when s/he is so tiny?" I think K is doing completely the right thing and as long as her sister has no issue, and K is aware that C's attendance is 'baby permitting', then the problem disappears.

<threadjack> The combination of the last line of your post and your tagline just made me laugh out loud . </threadjack>

The chance that the baby will be born on exactly that day at the precise time of the ceremony is infinitesimally small. If it does turn out that way, then the parents (both the sisters' parents and the brand new parents) will have to make some choices.

Maybe if labor is still in progress during the ceremony, they can skype or something, which the sisters both seem fine with.

Or they can have a private family party after the wedding where a DVD of the wedding is shown to anyone who missed the actual ceremony.

The parents are not being very reasonable here. And they're expecting one daughter to completely run around in circles to appease the other. Thank goodness, the pregnant sister is fine here. It's just the parents. They can choose to do what they wish.

Hopefully K and C will just go ahead with their respective wedding and pregnancy plans and not worry about what Mom and Dad think about it.

The thing is, C isn't the one that is insisting on a date change...and C is really the only one with a conflict. K's parents are being ridiculous at best and if I were C, I'd be scared to death and how involved and present they plan on being during and immediately after the birth of my baby. Heck, C may even want them to be distracted by K's wedding.

I don't think K was rude not to consult with her family members before choosing a date. She's obviously not springing this on them at the last minute (she's at least 6 months out, right?). She chose a date that was important to her and her FH and then told her family the date. If she's expected to find an ideal time for her immediate family, her FH's immediate family...then where does it end. She can't forget about her best friends, grandparents, Aunt Ethel who's always been there for her, etc.This is her special day and if it's important to her friends and family, they can start making arrangements and fixing their schedules so they can be there...and if they can't, that's ok too. But it's pretty awful, IMO, for anyone to say "Change your wedding date to accommodate me."

And I'm trying to picture how this conversation with C was supposed to go. "C, I know you are trying to get pregnant. How's that going? I'm planning my wedding and I need there not to be any conflicts. What date works for you?"

"Well K, thanks for asking. Not pregnant yet, but I'm going to keep trying so can you hold off until I'm successful and then plan for something a good 6 to 9 months later to make sure that everything is fine with the baby and I'll be up for going."

It just doesn't seem to work. Since K and C are already discussing ways for C to see the ceremony, then I think that K is in the clear. She knows her sister cares and wants to be part of it in any way she can. If I were K, that would mean as much to me as her attending.

If only we could say her parents (who have zero conflict) are being that reasonable.

I guess that perspective is based on family dynamics. In my family it would be perfectly reasonable to expect the mom and grandfather to be at the hospital when the baby is born and to be available to help out when the baby comes home.

If that is the case in this family, the mom is going to spend the next 6-7 months hoping that the baby doesn't come until after the wedding. I know I'd feel aweful if I had to tell my DD who had just delivered a child "Sorry, sweetie, I've got to leave now to go to your sister's wedding." While I'm sure my DD would understand, it would still be hard to do. Or worse for them to get a call during the ceremony that the baby been delivered, but the grandparents can't leave because they are at a wedding or if they did leave, they'd feel like they were abadoning one DD for the other.

That's just additional worry and stress I'd never had wanted to put my mom through. And my mom would have stressed about it. She never wanted one of us to feel less loved then another so trying to balance to things like this would have drove her a little bonkers.

In my family it is reasonable for the grandparents (and aunts/uncles to be there when the baby is born too). It is also reasonable to be there in the days or even weeks after. The reality is that it is also possible to have the baby early - weeks or even a couple of months. So that would mean as the much older sister who has never been married I would have to alter my plans by several months to make sure there was no conflict. That is the last thing my sisters would want. Especially since I could leave the wedding on the scheduled date and it is just as possible everyone would be there for the baby's birth because babies don't come on schedule.

I'm not saying I would try to remove all possibility of a conflict, but the most probable. Most babies arrive within a few weeks of the estimated delivery, so I'd try to avoid scheduling for those 4 weeks.

I'd be looking at the dates based on risk, probability of occurrence and impact if it did occur. The further away I schedule from her due date, the less probability of a conflict.

You can never schedule around every unknown factor. But I do like to schedule around known factors.