Rider aids like traction control and ABS continue to prove the notion that electronics are the new horsepower, and with the US debut of the KTM 1190 Adventure R just a couple months away, we learn that the hot new adventure-touring machine will debut the new Bosch Motorcycle Stability Control (MSC) system.

An extension of the venerable Bosch 9+ME ABS package, whose dual-channel setup has become the benchmark for OEM-equipped ABS units, the Bosch MSC is the next iteration of that standard. Integrating the ability for riders to brake into corners with a reduced risk of low-sliding, the Bosch MSC system is the next evolution in braking with its anti-lowside technology.

Working with KTM to bring MSC to the KTM 1190 Adventure R, Bosch says that the unit has multiple advantages over traditional ABS pieces:

While KTM is the first company out of the gate with the Bosch MSC system, it is only logical that other companies will be equipping their machines with the technology. And since we know where the minds of current KTM 1190 Adventure owners are going; yes, the Bosch MSC equipment can be retrofitted to current machines.

Would this have been able to assist in Tim’s Broventure mishap? That body-before-bike sacrifice of his right wrist? Inquiring minds want to know more about that downing, and how much he wishes Bosch had developed this a few years prior.

H-man

I love it! Except for the linked braking. I hope it can be turned off. There are times when a rider want to use only the front or rear brake.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com Jensen Beeler

Deez, it would have made no difference.

http://www.bikewriter.com Mark Gardiner

“When you can feel the power of the engine in your arms”? “…the wind in your face…” (while wearing a full-face helmet) “…and the hum of the bike in your belly.”

@ADG: Hmm…because all road riders are perfectly skilled and trained at riding their bikes, right? As soon as it has saved one persons life in a panic situation, then it has proven itself as far as I’m concerned. But ahh yes, you’ll say that rider should have actually learnt to ride properly, and he wouldn’t be in that panic situation to begin with…

https://twitter.com/AaronBBrown Aaron B. Brown

Sounds great, the kind of thing that will prevent novice riders from getting themselves into trouble. But I’m not impressed with KTM’s Safety video which shows riders driving irresponsibly, even recklessly. We’re not talking about lightweight dirt bikes here, these bikes are big and heavy with a high center of gravity. What I see are riders going too fast on tight rough roads lined with dangerous obstacles like huge boulders that will squash you like a bug if you get pitched off and hit one, as well as along the side of a lake, where you drown after getting knocked unconscious. Taking stupid risks when you’re out in the middle of nowhere is always unwise. It’s almost as if the promotion for this technology encourages riders to take chances they normally wouldn’t. I don’t think that kind of riding appeals to the buying demographic for these motorcycles either.

meatspin

awesome technology. I’d even let the MSC take over the steering in a panic situation via servo motors located in the steering head stem. Jesus take the wheel.

BBQdog

If they first would add Bluetooth to my KTM’s cockpit and a nice app for my phone. Would save time adjusting settings though endless stupid button combinations. And a helmet please which opens the visor a centimeter every time I stop the bike.

paulus – Thailand

Where will it end? A gyro stabilised machien that you simply sit on/in?

I ride to be in control… and accept the consequences of my mistakes.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com Jensen Beeler

You realize the irony involved when complaining on a motorcycle blog about technological advancements coming to motorcycles, right?

Murat

What I saw was spirited riding at best, nothing irresponsible. Things like ABS, TC and now this, shouldn’t make anyone feel they can do anything and get away with it of course, I agree with that…

Frenchie

Damn disc brakes, nowadays nobody knows how to properly stop a bike with drum brakes. Same old story as when they mandated fitting turning lights instead of just sticking your arm out, suddenly no one knows how to properly ride with one arm…

smiler

Another 3 letter invention from Bosch. Isn’t there a possibility that all the fun will be engineered out of driving? I have had a highside and lowside on trackdays. Riding with electronic controls means you can simply avoide anything like this but then then rider knows no boundaries and the skill needed to ride is reduced?

Dave P

OK, so when are we finally going to see an independent motorcycle reviewer strap on the airbag leathers and push these bikes with electronic safety systems to the point of failure? I have very little funds for a new bike and I ride a sport bike (600cc) without any rider aides. I would need to know what real world affect these electronics would have before I bought one.

I wanna see some offs and compare to how easily they go down with the safety systems turned off. And there should be a camera mounted to record the bikes levers so I can see how silly you can get with the throttle or brake and what this system really does. I mean I’ve read reviews on how the TC system such as on the kawasaki zx-10r help you get around turns easier, but I’m not sure what kind of magnitude of effect we’re talking about here…some one needs to show if this stuff is idiot proof or not. That is the demographic some of this is being marketed to, after all.

Yes this is all a little tongue in cheek, but seriously, how awesome would it be to see someone (Jensen? This is your chance!) taking these things to the failure point (so like braking or accelerating until you low side…if you can!) and putting together a well-edited video of the data (throttle control, lean angle, braking) and video of the levers and controls (so we can see how hard/fast the rider grabbed the brakes) and see if they actually go down. Who knows, this might be the best way to make some converts to these electronics. I know I’d be [gleefully] watching (assuming no one got hurt…at least not seriously).

Jake F.

Yep, all these electronics rider aids have completely taken away the risk-factor and fun associated with operating a motorcycle. Why, with ABS, traction control, and the full gamut of idiot-proofing they use in MotoGP and WSBK these days, can anyone even remember the last time someone crashed? I tell ya, you need slightly less skill to race a motorcycle these days as walking and chewing gum at the same time.

Give me a break.

sbpilot

This MSC system sounds advanced. The first 3 points seem like an advanced ABS system, the last two:

So Bosch packaged all those things, TC, ABS, AWC etc. into one system called MSC. Well, I guess the upside is if bikes begin to use it as standard equipment you don’t have to read all these acronyms, just the one.

And though I don’t like rider aids, when it comes to dual sports or ADV type bikes, I’d gladly welcome an arsenal of anti fall over stuff when hauling all that weight and travelling extensive kilometers.

For those who complain about the tech, there’s no need to fret, if you buy the bike with this MSC, don’t like the systems then turn them off! Though I doubt people would once they realize they will save your arse.

However @ Jensen, there’s no irony, it’s a blog with an open comment section, don’t you expect people to discuss and express their opinions? Whether they agree with the post/tech or not?

sbpilot

For the record I’m all for safety advancement. I do like this tech.

I can see why safety advancements are hugely unpopular in the parts of the USA though. I only recently understood this. When I went to Indy MotoGP earlier this year (first time), I have never been so shocked at how many riders ride without helmets and wear absolutely no protection. From the drive all the way to Indianapolis to getting into Indy, most riders had little to no protective gear. 9/10 didn’t wear a helmet. It’s actually a strange sight to see people riding with no helmets coming from a place where it’s illegal to do so.

I thought all those silly youtube videos I watched of overweight helmet less riders falling off on roads with no gear etc. were just outliers, but now I fully understand how there can be so many of these videos.

Mariani

@Frenchie That’s a fallacy. And a truly mediocre one at that.

That’s right, having computers that control all sorts of things based on hundreds of factors does not take away the job of the rider. Not at all.

Next up on the line, DCT and radar-controlled braking, to add to the experience.

Anyway, I can live with the fact that this system is on a bike I’d never consider owning, but how long until it comes to one that I do? Sigh.

Also, Jensen, I don’t see the irony at all. The guy is voicing his opinion, same as everyone else.

tony

we are all different kinds of riders, with different goals for our motorcycling. i’m a huge long way round fan, but i ride a classic fireblade. i can see how this tech can help adv riders…but i’m gonna pass…

same with the s1000rr. why have 200hp if you cant get to the last 25 of it because of the electronics? pure riding, skills development, personal improvement, greater satisfaction, faster laptimes! 150hp, 175 kegs…wheres that 98 r1 i left lying around ?

see you all at ca superbike school end of october!

Tim

Jeezus F’ing christ did all the wanker doctor/lawyer biker wanna-be’s who all bought harleys last year now want sport bikes?

I cannot fathom why people have a problem with this. Do peoples enjoyment of riding a motorbike come from the knowledge that they could crash and die when they hamfist a braking procedure?

Murat

Here in Istanbul, they have very poorly aimed water sprinkler systems for the grass that adorn the sides of many streets, which have the traction quality of oiled glass – when they’re dry. More than a few riders crashed when they went into a curve, saw an obstacle (car, people, animals etc) and tried to stop. Some have even lost their lives. Yes they could’ve been more careful, but nobody is that good all the time. I love my ABS (hardly ever activated it though), I’d love the best TC and this stability control as well, because you really need it just once….

http://www.tonupjax.com Ton Up Jax

With computer-controlled electronic systems handling the throttle, braking, traction, and suspension, is the rider becoming more of a passenger? Are future motorcyclists going to be really safe, fast riders without having any actual riding skills? Is this what people really want?

More importantly- how many computer/software devices do you regularly use that do not have occasional “glitches”? Personally, I’m more comfortable relying on the skills I have developed riding mechanical devices for 40+ years than trusting a computer to “interpret and adjust” my inputs for throttle, braking, traction, and suspension control- especially when computer/software/electronic failure is a daily experience in my life.

I’ll not even mention the issue of the ease of “designed obsolescence” into electronic devices…

Norm G.

i’m a big proponent of ABS and TC. I am however apprehensive of the “pucker factor” a system that takes control of your motorbike will create. particularly when it comes to FADEC (full authority) and any sort of “auto throttling”.

any time a bike does something different than what your brain (and right wrist) commands…? you’re likely to crash anyway. why…? because it wasn’t what you were expecting.

using this system, would almost require a dedicated MSF course for one to “unlearn what they have learned” in order for it’s full benefits to be realized. I almost wadded an S1000 because of it’s electrics. this is likely what this Bosch system is. bankrolling development during R&D for the S1, BMW would theoretically have first dibbs, but the “no compete” agreement has since elapsed. Bosch as the manufacturer is now free to hock this system to others. it’s not a coincidence that the next bike is a KTM… ie. Germany’s Austrian cousins to south.

Norm G.

re: “With computer-controlled electronic systems handling the throttle, braking, traction, and suspension, is the rider becoming more of a passenger?”

no, because unlike car world, the rider’s weight is much greater percentage of the GCVW. that means you’re still going to “yardsale” the bike the first time an incident occurs.

the good news… if you survive the first few crashes…? by the 4th or 5th time, you will hopefully be able to predict what the systems going to do to save your hide. :) the only reason the guy in the video link posted by meatspin didn’t crash the VFR the 2nd time is because he KNEW what to expect, and KNEW (intuitively) where to place his weight.

rest assured, the “tag team” of Darwin and Newton will still continue WEEDING OUT those who should’ve never thrown a leg over a motorbike to begin with.

Norm G.

re: “Next up on the line, DCT and radar-controlled braking, to add to the experience.”

survey says…!!! (*DING*) facebook connectivity.

afterall, it’s important to know who’s recently “friended” you, and of course what miley cyrus is going to say next on her twitter feed.

Mariani

@Norm G.

Damn, Norm, that was painful. It’s like the F10 M5 rumours, all over again.

Jake F.

Man, if only there was a way to transfer the demigod-like riding ability of all the ace riders who regularly oppose any electronic riding aids to us mere motorcycling mortals. Rarely does one find such an awe-inspiring assemblage of über-riders as are found within the comments section of A&R.

http://www.tonupjax.com Ton Up Jax

Jake F.- you miss the point. The issue is not about the invincibility of the human riders, but about the dubious certitude of the infallibility of computers/software/electronics. I am personally more comfortable trusting the mechanical design of my motorcycle than arcane computer controlled systems with their proven consistent failures- especially when they are between me and every input control a rider has on a motorcycle. The majority of recalls on cars now are electronics related, but the media doesn’t seem interested in covering those stories. The margin of error is much smaller on bikes, and I for one prefer the decisions to be left up to me. But that’s just me.

Again, the topic of “designed failure” and “designed obsolescence” in relation to electronic devices seems to be a topic very few understand, or are willing to face…

Tim

“””Jake F. says: Man, if only there was a way to transfer the demigod-like riding ability of all the ace riders who regularly oppose any electronic riding aids to us mere motorcycling mortals. “”

It is a Get-It-Your-Damn-Self kind of Sport. Thats right Sport!!

All sports take skills you hone &earn your damn self.

Hence they are called sport bikes.

They are not “Family” freakin vehicles. Then again I could care less what training wheels you need. Fine go get them.

Just dont shove this crap down everybodys throat like all “Safety”aids eventually go.

Or….go ride that couch & buy a PS-2 thingy if you need total safety.

Jake F.

Tim, evidently sarcasm is lost on you. Also, a PS2 reference? You must be in your 50s-60s and are exactly the skill level of rider who benefits from this kind of tech but is too proud to believe it.

https://twitter.com/aaronbbrown Aaron B. Brown

I am not one of those then who thinks that stupid and/or inexperience riders should be hurt or killed when they act imprudently on a motorcycle. Only sadists and sociopaths derive enjoyment from that kind of thing, admittedly the world is filled with such Neanderthals, they breed like rats its true, but their opinions should carry little weight with those of us who are… more normal shall we say, or at least more socially acceptable in a civilized society.

I don’t care how good you are, if you’re riding off-road in the dirt, rain, mud, snow, gravel or any combination thereof, a system like this could save you and your bike. If you’re smart you appreciate that. Of course if you’re one of those macho douche bags who think that such a system makes you feminine, and anything feminine is an expression of weakness, well there really isn’t much that can be done for you. We can only hope you don’t get the opportunity breed and pass on that brainwashing on to another generation.

For those purists who want the full sensation of losing control and being flung headlong into a tree at 50 miles an hour, to be found a week later with your brains oozing out of your eye sockets, let’s hope they offer an off switch. :)

Tim

“”Jake F. says Also, a PS2 reference? You must be in your 50s-60s and are exactly the skill level of rider who benefits from this kind of tech but is too proud to believe it.””

Sorry no but if I am not up on the latest video game terminology it is only because unlike you I dont ride the couch; )

Tim

“”Aaron B. Brown says: I am not one of those then who thinks that stupid and/or inexperience riders should be hurt or killed when they act imprudently on a motorcycle. Only sadists and sociopaths derive enjoyment from that kind of thing, admittedly the world is filled with such Neanderthals, “”

Oh snap here we go!! lol

Grow a pair will you?

Maybe you need On-Star on your bike too? They can send help when you fall……. if that is even possible? Take the freakin panties off or find a new sport….please

Better yet they can disable your bike if it goes over the speed limit or exceeds “normal” lean angles for normal non-neanderthals like yourself?

Tim

“”Aaron B. Brown says: For those purists who want the full sensation of losing control and being flung headlong into a tree at 50 miles an hour, to be found a week later with your brains oozing out of your eye sockets, let’s hope they offer an off switch. “”

See this is the problem.

None of the folks who do not want rider aids ever said you cannot have them. But instead folks like you want to insist that folks like us will wrap ourselves around a tree because we like you are somehow incapable?

Then the clincher perfectly said by you is this…. “”let’s hope they offer an off switch. “”

We dont want a switch & we dont want the aids in the 1st place. We dont want to pay for them & switch them off. Offer the bike without these

Because like ABS many of these “aids” when switched off do nothing to return the important “to some riders” feel of a good braking system. With the feedback that comes from a good braking system Instead now we are stuck with yards of extra brake lines & pumps that take all the feel away & you want to say….Oh just switch it off????

Shows how little you know about any of it.

MikeD

I’m cool with it.

Is not like everytime i go out for a ride i’m at 100% of my mental and/or phisical capacity NOR is the conditions of the road, weather, traffic . . . u get my drift.

Even if it only saves your Bacon ONCE, u’ll be glad it did and u had it on your bike . . . that’s what i always hear from those who “had” to use it.

Shit, i wish my 03 SV1000N had all these safety nets . . . i can tell you i can put it to good use from day one.

I ain’t no Rossi, Lorenzo or Marquez and in my neck of the woods motorcyclists are seen as moving targets/waiting to happens traffic death statistics.

For those of you who don’t like the trend, i sugest you to hold TIGHT, VERY TIGHT to your favorite ride because electronics aides are here TO STAY.

Like Comedian Dave Chapelle said: Is like sex with Koby Briant, you can kick and scream all you want but is going to happen.

@Murat:

If people don’t get it after reading you comment, then i don’t know what would make them reconsider their train of thought.

http://www.tonupjax.com Ton Up Jax

Some more perspective:

Right now in our shop we’re servicing two 1973 models, one 1980, two 1982, and one 1993 model motorcycles. Do you believe in 40 years any shop will be servicing 2014 model year bikes with electronic throttles, brakes, suspension and traction control? No- why not? Is it because current 40 year old bikes can have almost every part fabricated by a competent mechanic? Is it because of the relative simplicity of their mechanical design? Or could it be the lack of “little black boxes” with “No User Serviceable Parts Inside” that can only be fixed by replacing them?

I get a kick out of asking electronics experts to show me exactly what failed when diagnosing a computer/software/electronics problem. They look at me curiously, holding whichever little plastic box is the current culprit, and say “Well, this part failed”. I respond by asking what part inside that box broke, and what caused the failure? They always get a blank look on their face and say “I can’t tell what part broke- these things just fail, and you have to replace it”.

For some reason, I can accept failure when I can physically see where a failure occurred. When failure is visible it provides two things- a reason and a possible solution. When I am handed a plastic box and told that it will work fine until the smoke gets out, after that it’s no good and must be replaced- I have issue. Can I make the smoke stay in? Can I build a better plastic box? Not hardly. And the coup de grace: you’ll never know if that black box failed because something really went wrong inside there, or because an engineer programmed it to die at that specific time- so it could be replaced… at your expense (and hopefully not at the expense of your life or limb).

Jake F.

Ton Up Jax says:

“Do you believe in 40 years any shop will be servicing 2014 model year bikes with electronic throttles, brakes, suspension and traction control? No- why not?”

I wouldn’t presume to know the capabilities and resources of mechanics and hobbyists in the year 2054.

http://www.tonupjax.com Ton Up Jax

Jake F.,

Would you have any luck getting a 1982 Dell computer fixed anywhere today?

ML

For the most part, you can turn these safety features off or reduce their ‘interference’. at least this is the case on all of my modern bikes.

I love safety improvements and like having them on my bike because when I don’t expect something to go wrong is when it normally does… so having these aids is nice.

If I want to be a hooligan, I can turn the features off or reduce their impact.

Now, if its on all the time and you can’t adjust the features, well…

Jake F.

Ton Up Jax,

Dell computers didn’t exist in 1982 so that would be a little tricky. However, using a real-world example of early 1980s electronics – the Atari 2600 – a quick Google search shows there are a number of places to get it fixed or, if you prefer, guides for fixing it yourself.

If there’s a demand for fixing up 40 year old bikes in 2054, there will be ways to do it. Bet on it.

http://www.tonupjax.com Ton Up Jax

Jake F.,

You are correct, I hit the wrong number- it was 1984 when Michael Dell started selling PC Unlimited computers out of his dorm room at UT.

Point is- I would personally trust my well-being to a 40 year old mechanical device before I would trust a 40 year old computer/software/electronic device.

We are going to have to agree to disagree, and then revisit this conversation in 40 years. I’m betting there will be 80 year old motorcycles still being ridden then- but very few if any 40 year old ones.

Again, what is being missed or ignored here is that computers/software/electronics enable the manufacturer to program a lifespan into in the product. This enables them to have complete control over the use of their customer’s bikes- it dies when they say, and they can make it economically unfeasible to repair it. When it’s too expensive to fix, it’s time to upgrade to the new model- which is great for the OEM, not so great for the owner. This also plays well into the “green” political agenda, which would like to see no “old” vehicles on the road.

Are you aware of the new BMW Service Computer System? It has been rolled out to dealers (well, dealers have been forced to purchase it), and is an internet link directly from the service floor to Munich. When your new BMW motorcycle tells you it’s time for service (there’s no maintenance schedule in the owners manual anymore- because you’re not supposed to touch anything), it goes to the BMW dealer where the technician plugs the bike into the computer system. The bike itself is then linked to Munich where all the stored information (yes, real “black box” info- everything the bike has done has been recorded) is uploaded to the Mothership, and the technician is told what OEM BMW parts/services need to be replaced/completed. When the tech has replaced the parts, the Mothership in Munich then resets the bike’s computer and then you’re free to pay and take your bike home… er, well, if you can really consider it “your” bike. Any of this bother you at all? It rubs me all kinds of bad ways.

Have you ever taken a 15, 20, or 25 year old bike to a dealer for repair only to be told “We don’t work on bikes over 10 years old.”? Do you think a BMW dealer who won’t touch a 20 year old BMW motorcycle today will work on a current model in 20 years time? What’s the difference, you may ask? Well, my shop gladly takes in and repairs 20, 30, 40 year old or more motorcycles BECAUSE THEY”RE MECHANICAL AND CAN STILL BE FIXED. I expect the support you’ll find for the new computer-laden bikes in 40 years will be about the same as the support you’ll find for a 1984 PC Unlimited computer today- rare to non-existent. Why? Because electronics are designed to quickly become obsolete and be disposable.

The real question should be: is it possible to remove the electronic devices from motorcycles and still have them function? Hey, there may be a future for repairing old(new) motorcycles in the future after all…

Mariani

I don’t think you guys are getting the picture here. The reason people such as myself don’t want electronics on motorcycles/cars/etc is not because of the danger of falling and/or getting hurt.

You fine people with TCS/ABS/Anti-wheelie/etc still fall all the time.

I don’t want that nonsense because it takes away from the experience. I want to be in control. I want every input of mine to mean something, and I want the motorcycle/car to do what I tell it to, whether that’s not the finest use of traction or if the front wheel will slowly but surely shoot up.

It doesn’t matter if rider X uses linked ABS or if traction control is the rule in category Y. Personally, I perceive that the job of controlling the bike should be of the rider. I don’t care who we are talking about here, racers shouldn’t be allowed the damned thing to begin with.

‘What do you know, you aren’t half the rider that they are, blah blah blah…’

Maybe. Probably.

But, again, that is not the point.

The reason I desire older cars more than newer ones is the same. The stuff you can buy today [save from Morgan, Noble, Pagani or some other small makers] is a technological, sterile celebration of ‘let us do it for you’.

We can turn most of those things off it is true, but we still have to buy them, we still have to carry them around and we still have to ‘maintain’ them.

It is tremendous fun to maintain machinery. As a petrolhead, my mind melts every time I think about gears and levers and the like, but a black box?

People like me don’t seek to have others getting hurt or killed because of some moronic ideal. It’s simple, I don’t mind if you have those things, but I don’t want them. I don’t want to be forced to have them.

But I’m fairly confident motorcycles are going down the same ill direction that cars did.

‘You don’t need to have it’ won’t be the case for long.

That’s why I complain. I’m sure that’s why others do, too.

MikeD

My dear PROFESSIONAL fellow STREET riders , BITCH NO MORE, wait, that came out wrong, i meant complain no more ! . . . for it seems that the fancy schnancy Bosch MCS System will be optional (at least on the U.K and this KTM).

Don’t have a clue if it’ll be OBLIGATORY (Standard equipment) when the 1190 Adventure comes to this side of the Atlantic or other models from different OEMs.

On the U.K the MCS option cost 800 pounds more over the standard MSRP of the base 1190 Adventure, couldn’t make out if MSC HAD to bundled with their electronic boingers in order to have either one of the other.

Jensen … HELP !

Murat

I don’t understand what this system takes the experience off of. Falling off? How does it dilute anything? I rode the new Adventure (without this system of course) and it’s a headbanger. It pulls incredibly hard and you can hardly believe you’re going so fast on an adventure bike. I never thought it was less breathtaking than my non-TC VFR1200 at speed just because it has TC. Its brakes feel wonderful as well, and I’m sure none of the current superbikes such as the S1000RR and the Panigale have spongy feeling brakes just because they have ABS. What’s the bitching about really? I’m sure in 40 years we won’t have IC engines and we’ll all be in diapers, so why worry about it?