Translation: if you disagree with certain of Ron Paul's Austrian School views on economics, then even if you agree with him on ending wars of aggression and dismantling the police state, you still hate "freedom" and are hence not welcome in his movement (unless, of course, you agree to keep your mouth shut whenever you hear someone advocate instituting a new gold standard or making our tax system even more friendly to rent-seeking land speculators than it already is).

My thanks to Anthony Gregory for proving my point about how the Austrian School-dominated Tea Party movement of 2007/2008 needlessly narrowed its own base, and thereby made itself unnecessarily vulnerable to being hijacked by Republican Party operatives who, of course, have made a career out of parroting the very same empty platitudes about "economic liberty" (an obvious illustration of this being the euphemism-laced "Contract from America" which begins this thread.)

I'm sure more such proof is forthcoming.

Their needless narrowing of the base is the correct observation, but the economic issues being the cause is the wrong analysis. The problem is the TP was NEVER in Austrian camp to begin with, and are only just now stepping their toe into antiwar waters as it stands. MOST of Ron Paul's emphasis is on an Austrian approach to economic issues, yet the TP has not been firmly associated with him. The emphasis of the group was on tax and spending restraint, without any firm (or even vague) intellectual grasp of the underlying principles of liberty as applied to the market. This lack of a base led to the incoherent agenda, that made the TP susceptible to being raided. Tax-and-spend austerity is standard "fiscal conservative" rhetoric, and absent a true alternate framework, was easy for Republicans to exploit.

The warfare leads to the welfare state, and vice versa; being opposed to half a loaf does not eliminate the bread. Unlike the 'brainy' or consistent-to-a-fault libertarians, the TP was more 'heart' or action oriented, and is the inconsistent side of the liberty movement. it senses something is wrong, but does not apply a systematic embrace of liberty to fight it. That's why Gregory's critique is correct. What the Libertarian sites, from LRC to AWC, have actually been guilty of in needlessly narrowing the base, is refusing to openly embrace 9-11 truth, tax honesty, birthers, or any other subject (besides anti-war, or end the Fed) that the mainstream derides. These issues would have given the TP a backbone of unique issues, making them less vulnerable to being compromised. If the real TP can rebooted, it has to hitch its wagon to the array of issues of the liberty movement, not those of the GOP leadership.

Logged

"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered!... I am not a number, I am a free man!"

One movement long long ago, was in my oppinion 99% on the level. Vietnam Vets against the war.(non political, non Gov) Sure there are allways those sukling opportunist leaching, Lil Johny Kerry being one who was with us, we didn't along well, I had met some of his former crew, I knew his game. That asside, any movement of a political nature have been and allways will be infiltrated, when the base of a movement in overshadowed by these faces-actors-pols-the raw level of its origins can be slanted. SOP

Their needless narrowing of the base is the correct observation, but the economic issues being the cause is the wrong analysis. The problem is the TP was NEVER in Austrian camp to begin with, and are only just now stepping their toe into antiwar waters as it stands. MOST of Ron Paul's emphasis is on an Austrian approach to economic issues, yet the TP has not been firmly associated with him. The emphasis of the group was on tax and spending restraint, without any firm (or even vague) intellectual grasp of the underlying principles of liberty as applied to the market. This lack of a base led to the incoherent agenda, that made the TP susceptible to being raided. Tax-and-spend austerity is standard "fiscal conservative" rhetoric, and absent a true alternate framework, was easy for Republicans to exploit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that the mistake the original, non-partisan Tea Party made was in not narrowing its base enough to only that small percentage of the population who accept as divine gospel the anarcho-capitalist dogma of the privatize-everything Austrian School.

If that is indeed the case, then all I can say is: good luck effecting meaningful change with that backwards approach, because you're going to need it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that the mistake the original, non-partisan Tea Party made was in not narrowing its base enough to only that small percentage of the population who accept as divine gospel the anarcho-capitalist dogma of the privatize-everything Austrian School.

If that is indeed the case, then all I can say is: good luck effecting meaningful change with that backwards approach, because you're going to need it.

The growing success of Austrian candidate Paul shows that the honest pro-constitution libertarian approach is not the problem. The problem was in the TP being manipulated into casting off the patriot movement issues that WERE the attraction point for the movement. Once woken up, it's easy (or much easier) to get people to re-orient towards a more radical vision of the role of government. Most people are otherwise prone to accept divine gospel the corporate-capitalist dogma of the mega-welfare state, including the backwards notions that there will always be infinite money around to pay for infinite subsidies. So long as the government tax and Fed policy is robbing Peter to pay Paul, or Mary Inc. or inflating the currency to do so, there absolutely will be no change.

Logged

"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered!... I am not a number, I am a free man!"

The growing success of Austrian candidate Paul shows that the honest pro-constitution libertarian approach is not the problem. The problem was in the TP being manipulated into casting off the patriot movement issues that WERE the attraction point for the movement. Once woken up, it's easy (or much easier) to get people to re-orient towards a more radical vision of the role of government. Most people are otherwise prone to accept divine gospel the corporate-capitalist dogma of the mega-welfare state, including the backwards notions that there will always be infinite money around to pay for infinite subsidies. So long as the government tax and Fed policy is robbing Peter to pay Paul, or Mary Inc. or inflating the currency to do so, there absolutely will be no change.

So the Austrian School's brilliantly-conceived public relations message to the American people is: even if you want to abolish wage taxes, abolish sales taxes, abolish taxes on capital goods, abolish taxes on houses, buildings and other improvements, abolish prohibitively high licensing barriers, abolish ObamaCare, abolish corporate welfare, abolish corporate personhood, abolish compulsory school attendance laws, abolish gun control laws, abolish the Deparment of Homeland "Security," abolish the DEA, abolish the BATFE, abolish the CIA, abolish FEMA, and abolish the Department of "Education," you're STILL not welcome in the non-Republicanized Tea Party movement if you're either (a) a Greenbacker instead of a Goldbug, or (b) a Georgist who, as such, thinks America's Founders had the right idea when, in the Articles of Confederation, they called for deriving federal revenue from a tax levied upon "the value of all land within each State."

If you honestly think that that sort of ridiculously exclusionary approach to movement building is a recipe for "success," then you're in for a very rude awakening.

If you want to know if someone is serious about freedom, ask him about the last president, U.S. war, or major federal program that he admires. If he names anything from the last sixty years, he is obviously not serious about the short-term threat and long-term struggle for liberty.

New Orleans, Louisiana (CNN) - Jon Huntsman was a no-show at the Republican Leadership Conference in New Orleans, but the former Utah governor raised eyebrows with a surprising second place in the conference’s 2012 presidential straw poll Saturday.

Texas Rep. Ron Paul, who delivered a fiery and well-attended speech here in Friday, continued his record of strong straw poll performances and won the vote outright with 612 votes. Huntsman came next with 382 votes.

Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann, coming off an impressive debate performance on Monday in New Hampshire, finished in third place with 191 votes.

Former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum finished in eighth place with 30 votes. Former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, who did not speak at the conference, finished in a dismal ninth place with 18 votes.

Former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson came in last with just 10 votes.

It was Huntsman’s surprising runner-up finish, though, that grabbed the most attention on Saturday when the results of the two-day vote were announced.

When he was booked as one of the speakers at the semi-annual event, there were questions about how Huntsman - who has broken with GOP orthodoxy on issues like climate change and same-sex civil unions - would be received among the conservative activists who typically attend such gatherings.

Huntsman, though, came down with a last minute cold this week and decided to skip the event. He dispatched his wife, Mary Kaye, to greet conference-goers in his stead.

And his strong finish in the straw poll might have gotten a boost from some behind-the-scenes work by his political team. Several of his political advisers, including John Weaver, Chris Allen, John Yob and Jake Suski, made the trip to New Orleans and were seen huddling with delegates at the riverfront hotel where the conference was held.

Miller attributed the win to the former ambassador to China’s economic message. He did not comment when asked if Huntsman advisers paid for their supporters to get to the ballot box.

“His willingness to take the debt crisis seriously and his foreign policy message really resonated with the younger conservatives who attended,” Miller said.

At this point, I just want an honest person to step up and rationally explain what needs to be done and I know it will never come from Washington D.C.I remember when the Campaign for Liberty began. I gave money for the first time for a political cause and was proud of it. Look what grew from its hijacking; nothing but an abomination controlled by financial elites mouthing words of fake patriotism, Ron Paul sidelined by slander from the fake left and ignored by the warmongers on the fake right and a chance for a new American awakening snuffed out by ignorant, emotional imbeciles.

We are beset on all sides by what appears a fundamental corruption at all levels of our polity. We have a soul sucking apathy in our citizenry. Always around us it seems people more interested in name calling and point scoring but never real solutions. And we fear taking the steps necessary to have a real correction for we fear by our actions causing what little we have left will be swept into a maelstrom of destruction.

We, you and I, need to be the men and women this time demands we be. We need to take action, we need to demand to be heard, we need to unite.We will not be slaves for corporate greed. We will not submit to the wishes of madmen lost in the insanity of power and greed. Our children's future demands it!

Logged

We work jobs we hate to pay for stuff we don't need to impress people we don't like. Am I the crazy one here?

At this point, I just want an honest person to step up and rationally explain what needs to be done and I know it will never come from Washington D.C.I remember when the Campaign for Liberty began. I gave money for the first time for a political cause and was proud of it. Look what grew from its hijacking; nothing but an abomination controlled by financial elites mouthing words of fake patriotism, Ron Paul sidelined by slander from the fake left and ignored by the warmongers on the fake right and a chance for a new American awakening snuffed out by ignorant, emotional imbeciles.

We are beset on all sides by what appears a fundamental corruption at all levels of our polity. We have a soul sucking apathy in our citizenry. Always around us it seems people more interested in name calling and point scoring but never real solutions. And we fear taking the steps necessary to have a real correction for we fear by our actions causing what little we have left will be swept into a maelstrom of destruction.

We, you and I, need to be the men and women this time demands we be. We need to take action, we need to demand to be heard, we need to unite.We will not be slaves for corporate greed. We will not submit to the wishes of madmen lost in the insanity of power and greed. Our children's future demands it!

We are beset on all sides by what appears a fundamental corruption at all levels of our polity. We have a soul sucking apathy in our citizenry. Always around us it seems people more interested in name calling and point scoring but never real solutions. And we fear taking the steps necessary to have a real correction for we fear by our actions causing what little we have left will be swept into a maelstrom of destruction.

We, you and I, need to be the men and women this time demands we be. We need to take action, we need to demand to be heard, we need to unite.We will not be slaves for corporate greed. We will not submit to the wishes of madmen lost in the insanity of power and greed. Our children's future demands it!

Agree entirely. But facing corruption needs resolve, self-discipline and intellectual coherency to prevail against the tide. To reiterate, verbatim, what was stated earlier about the TP (before things got misdirected), the emphasis of the group was on tax and spending restraint, without any firm (or even vague) intellectual grasp of the underlying principles of liberty as applied to the market. This lack of a base led to the incoherent agenda, that made the TP susceptible to being raided. Tax-and-spend austerity is standard "fiscal conservative" rhetoric, and absent a true alternate framework, was easy for Republicans to exploit.

Logged

"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered!... I am not a number, I am a free man!"