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I've fucking had it. The Independent yesterday featured three articles mentioning her, every last fucking Kate Nash review does it, every review where a band have a fan base that was in part aided by the fucking internet.

I'm kind of letting pass because obviously they both have a London twang and all that crap.

But seriously, mentioning Lily appears to be acceptable wherever people talk about Myspace or any kind of 'internet phenomenon' or whatever. It's doing my nut in. There are people who have benefited more directly from an internet fanbase than Lily, without the aid of a major label marketing budget.

This is coming from someone who actually really likes Miss Allen and her music!

referencing an artist so similar that Kate Nash could quite easily fit onto a bill with, without anyone batting an eyelid isn't as much lazy or ridiculous as it is pertinent. if you don't see the similarities you should be worried.

Why is it necessary to have your own phrase for 'lazy journalism'? It's not like clichéd prose or an over-worked lyric. It's like me asking you to invent your own phrase for 'bad music'. Bad music IS bad music. Lazy journalism IS lazy journalism. Why don't you invent your own phrase for 'equilateral triangle'?

You're right that the Nash/Allen comparisons are pertinent, but overworked journalist similes ('Nash is like Allen') are much more tiring than people trying to refine the standards of journalism. Talking about Kate Nash in terms of Lily Allen is inevitable, but if it dominates ALL her press then frankly it's unfair, damaging, and, like Colin said, lazy.

I don't even like Kate Nash, and I think Lily Allen is great. Maybe it's the fault/bad luck of Kate Nash to be so similar and chronologically close to the far out-strippingly successful career of her 'predecessor'. I don't know.

Kate Nash came to wider attention as a direct result of Lily Allen putting her in her "top 8" so it's entirely appropriate and relevant (and perhaps even necessary) to mention her if giving any overview of her rise to prominence (as most debut albums tend to do)

I'll start penning disgustingly trite little ditties about walking down the street and living off my fat allowance in my parent paid studio flat while my TEAM puts my career plan together, then I'll be poshcore.

But I don't think Lilly Allen is poshcore. As annoying as Kate Niah and Allen are, at least the charts are populated by people writing their own, half decent pop songs. And it is ridiculous that she is mentioned every time the word 'Myspace' is used - so lazy. Kate Nash was described as a 'lo-fi Bjork' in the Guardian recently, my friend told me. Like, whatever.

when bands exaggerate (or even invent) their "working class backgrounds" in order to try to appeal to wider audiences 'cos I find it dishonest.

But as long as someone isn't trying to deceive people into thinking their something they're not I don't think people's backgrounds are a problem.

Again I accept the point John (Brianlove, not you!) is making about how unfair it is when bands make it big due to who their parents know rather than on their own merits. But again I'm pretty sure this wasn't the case with Kate Nash.

I don't know if that's what John means, I'm just guessing he isn't talking about 'working class heroes' and more likely about priviledge in its various forms.

Personally speaking, I think it's a shame that it isn't possible/easy to make a living being an artist. I don't begrudge people who are well-off and well-connected getting somewhere, though. It's the way the world is. I wish I could make a living as a musician but I never will.

or 'beyond'. Essentially I don't think it's really about class, is it? We know what we mean here: people who are financially solvent and who know a lot of people who are in positions to help them in the media, via their parents or going to the 'right school'.

These days that could mean people whose parents would have been described as 'working class' but have 'done good'.

I should make it clear that I have no idea who Kate Nash is in terms of her background, schooling, contacts, etc. I am talking entirely about hypotheticals.

I will say that I find it unlikely that Lily Allen's father didn't make a difference to her ability to break into the music industry, but she's obviously doing something right or else her musical career would have sunk without trace like Kelly Osbourne's seems to have. Mostly it's about the opportunity to show others what you're doing.

If you know people who know people I'm sure the job of securing a record deal and so forth is a lot easier. So much of what makes music 'popular' these days is down to marketing I would think.

is the element of 'cultural gatekeeping'.
This is not the fault of the girls, of course, but it's what their success represents. They are not responsible for being quite as safe and palatable as they are. But that doesn't stop me becoming massively frustrated at the lowest-common-denominator cash-tills-ringing approach to music that they represent (in my mind, at least).

I don't actually have a massive problem with people from any certain background - you can't control where you are from, and why should you want to - but there is a frustration with the general lack of meritocracy and the fact that some people have string pulling parents with deep pockets to aid in their career development, regardless of whether they're worth developing... that's not to romanticise poverty in any way at all. I guess it's just a frustration with the nature of how things are, rather than anything directly to do with any specific artist, but you can see how the two run in parallel when certain people just seem to unintentionally embody something you're uncomfortable with.

So yeah, posh just means how you sound. I got a lot of stick at school for sounding posh. It's because my mum's from Penicuik and has a light Scottish accent which combined with a South England upbringing essentially guarantees me speaking without glottal stops or the other trappings of London speech.

I realised you probably thought I was making a point by saying she sounded posh, suggesting it was a bad thing.

I don't think it is, though I don't like that she puts on a different accent when singing her stuff. I didn't particularly like Damon putting on OTT cocker-knee tones in the Parklife days but he was clearly singing in 'character', something Lily doesn't seem to do.

...what is your belief that Kate Nash is "moneyed" and posh based upon?

Aside from the fact she lives in Harrow (which is, I believe does not not entirely consist huge houses etc.) and wanted to go to the Brisol Old Vic Theatre School (which isn't exclusively full of posh kids), I'm not actually aware of any evidence whatsoever supporitng this assertion.

my problem with the lily allens/jack penates/kate nashs etc etc of this world isn't their 'poshness' per se (although I do generally find private school people irritating, if only for the assumptions they seem to have about how life is and the general lack of recognition that their upbringing and the opportunities that come with it is not 'normal' for most people eg. being able to do months and months of unpaid work experience in the media, an opportunity most people are denied).

It's more about the way they present themselves (or are presented) as representing 'normal'/'everyday'/'street' life, with their 'social commentary' lyrics sung in wildly exaggerated 'working class' (or what they percieve to be working class, i've never heard anyone speak like jamie t does in real life) accents, when they do and are nothing of the sort. It's the Guy Ritchie syndrome put to music.

That is what is so irritating about this whole LDN scene, it is pretentious in the true sense of the word ie a front of 'authenticity' with nothing of truth behind it.

most songs about 'everyday life' are shit anyway. I've spent half my life walking round a small city centre dodgy beer boys, I know what it's like, why do i want to hear about it constantly in musical form. Observation is about more than just 'say what you see', surely?

Many people seem to think that singing about the mundane details of everyday life means they're singing about what's "real" or "true" but "truth" is a much deeper thing - you could sing about dragons and castles and still make a "true" observation of the nature of humanity just as you can sing about what goes on down the pub on a Friday night without saying anything true at all.

...REALLY hate when people use "private schooled" as a criticism. especially when they actually have no idea of the artist's upbringing and they're just using it because they dislike that one song they heard on radio one a bit too much.

Kate Nash is compared with Lily Allen because she has the 'LDN' accent and because lily had her in her top 8 for a few months. its so fustrating. lyrically Kate is indeed similar but musically much more like regina spektor.

no journalist has ever made this link.

and this bollucks about public school as mentioned above. SO WHAT!! if the artist did go to public school whats the difference between that and state school? their parents were middle class? big wow.

to me if these people went to private school or not. If the music is good I couldn't care less.

To echo what other people are saying, what I have a problem is with people that went to private school singing as if they're auditioning for the role as the Artful Dodger when they REALLY don't sound like that.

If someone talks like Barbera Windsor, goes to private school, then sings like Barbera Windsor..fair do's.

But if they talk like Nigella Lawson, go to private school, then sing like Barbera Windsor they are a fake.

(I'm not saying any of the particular artists involved ever had a voice like the MILF chef, but you get my point)

Odd how they all cropped up following Artic Monkey's success with strong accents. isn't it.