I agree, but the only reason i see him staying if BC can't find a player to replace his 20pts per game.

That is probably the worst reason in the world not to trade a player. I can't find the article, but a few weeks ago I read a piece about how fears about replacing a great scorer are always over hyped. The fears are almost never realized because scoring can come from everyone. Simply someone replacing his minutes is going to probably give you at least ten points. The rest would be made up by DeRozan and others raising their ppg by a couple of points or so.

Besides, what does it really matter? Do rebuilding, 22 win teams really need to be worried enough about where their scoring is going to come from that they stall the development of the team? It's pretty clear to most fans (around here, anyway) that trading Bargnani is best for the team. The Raptors were 17th in the league in scoring and one of the worst teams in the league defensively. They should be far more worried about how to move up defensively than whether or not they might move down a few places offensively.

If Bargnani doesn't get traded...?!?

It seems that about 90% of the fan base wants him gone. I am on the fence and feel he can still be an asset on our team, and a decision could be made at the deadline/mid-season, or none at all. However I am in favor of trading him before the season if we get a good return. My problem with this is how low people around here are evaluating his trade value. Some of the trade propositions in the Bargnani trade thread are just plain steals for the other teams. It seems as if most are willing to trade him for anybody (Okur?) and they'll throw anybody into the trade machine, match the contracts, and call it a good trade.

My question(s) is, if Bargnani doesn't go via trade before the start of the season. Do you think all hope is lost for the upcoming season even if we draft Knight? Do you curse BC out for failing to do what everyone thinks to be a must-do move? It will be interesting to see if he doesn't get traded...I can see fans booing him if he doesn't when those boos are really pointed at BC. We can be harsh on our own players, and let's face it..there is very little love 4 Bargs. Not that Bargs lack of D and visible motivation to get better doesn't warrant some grief. But I can see a bad situation if he can't/doesn't get move. Your thoughts on another year with Bargnani?

On one hand it's time for him to go but on the other hand I'm not going have a meltdown if he isn't traded. Depending on who comes in as new coach, who knows, we could be spelling redemption "b-a-r-g-s" next season.

On one hand it's time for him to go but on the other hand I'm not going have a meltdown if he isn't traded. Depending on who comes in as new coach, who knows, we could be spelling redemption "b-a-r-g-s" next season.

This is how I see it. Having him under a new coach like Casey or Cheeks with some good defensive schemes might save this kid. Triano wasn't really new to Bargnani, and he must be feeling the pressure. If he stays I predict a good year for him, in fact I predict a good year for Bargnani no matter where he is next year, which is why I wanna puke at some of the trade proposals. I think BC is not urgent to ship Bargs out unless its a beauty of a deal. He's more likely to go at the deadline or mid-season because I can see BC giving him one more chance and then parting ways with his 5 year project. We should get something decent from Jose/Bay and I love the thought of Walker or Knight...actually the more I hear about this "weak" draft the more I get excited about the players we might get.

Bargnani can have a good year, offesnivley, in any city he plays IMO. As much as I hate his play defensively, he's a very good offensive player given he gets his shots. The fact that we're such a young team and he's had year-in year-out to prove himself just gives me the inkling that he will never be the player most(or just Raptor brass) had hoped for.

I really don't want to get into another Bargs hate piece because personally, I'd love nothing more than a homegrown talent prove their worth in this league. But to myself, and many others, he's proven himself to be nothing more than a very good scoring big man that brings nothing else aside from his outside/pull up J and occasional drive to the hoop.

It would definitely be heartbreaking to see him pull it all together on a good team(other than Raptors), but chances are we've seen the best of him already. Time to move on, but let's not get screwed in the deal!

If Colangelo doesn't trade Bargnani, then I take back all the nice things I've said about him over the years, because it would mean he clearly doesn't get it and he's succumbed to the same battered wife syndrome that so many Bargnani fans seem to have.

"This time it's going to be different! He really means it this time. I know he's going to change!"

Bargnani has been like a manipulative little North American kid who gets overindulged and gets lazy and will never reach his potential. He has never been held accountable. Even when Sam tried to make him accountable, Bargs always had BC, the indulging mother on his side. Triano never sat him.
simple, make him earn his minutes and account for his lousy defence in your line up and defensive schemes. If he cannot be enough of the other things he needs to be to make his offence an asset, then ass-sit his ass and make him a 6th man. But stop handing this guy the keys and blowing sunshine up his behind. If you spoil him, you will be successful: he'll be spoiled.
He is constantly being misused here and messed with. C, PF, SF. He is a pretty great scorer, really. We do not value his talents enough, but then again neither does he.

Bargnani is 6 years younger than Okur, so I'd say Utah would win in that regard even though Okur is a better overall performer right now. Now, Okur + #3 for Bargnani is a deal that I think BC has to take for both financial and talent reasons. I don't see why the Jazz would trade the third pick though, they can easily select Kanter and be done with it. And of course save money by letting Okur expire.

Bargnani has been like a manipulative little North American kid who gets overindulged and gets lazy and will never reach his potential. He has never been held accountable. Even when Sam tried to make him accountable, Bargs always had BC, the indulging mother on his side. Triano never sat him.
simple, make him earn his minutes and account for his lousy defence in your line up and defensive schemes. If he cannot be enough of the other things he needs to be to make his offence an asset, then ass-sit his ass and make him a 6th man. But stop handing this guy the keys and blowing sunshine up his behind. If you spoil him, you will be successful: he'll be spoiled.
He is constantly being misused here and messed with. C, PF, SF. He is a pretty great scorer, really. We do not value his talents enough, but then again neither does he.

I think 95% of NBA players would love to have been misused the way Bargnani has. He's a very solid scorer, but there's never been any indication he'd be anything but a poor rebounder and defender. That was his big problem when he was drafted.

I think 95% of NBA players would love to have been misused the way Bargnani has. He's a very solid scorer, but there's never been any indication he'd be anything but a poor rebounder and defender. That was his big problem when he was drafted.

I have followed basketball for years, but have not had tons of direct exposure to good coaching, so I have a questions I want to throw out there.

In games when Bargnani played in the post and hit his first few shots, I found that he was very effective, full of confidence and seemed more dialed in on the defensive end (at least his man-2-man d). I hated games where he played on the perimeter from the start and relied on long jump shots, because if he didn't start the game hot, he was essentially worthless (or needed 20 shots to make 20 pts).

Personally, I always felt that more of the blame should have fallen to Triano, rather than Bargs, because I assumed he played out at the perimeter as part of the set plays. I would love to see a coach come in that demands he establish himself as an inside offensive presence more consistently (having some decent 3pt threats would help).

That is one of the reasons I lean towards keeping Bargs, since I feel if he is used properly and gets his ass kicked and benched when he doesn't play up to expectations on both ends of the court, he could be a real asset. I know Smitch attempted this, but as a young kid who was just drafted 1st overall, coming to a new league in a new country, I somewhat understand why BC wanted him treated with kid-gloves back then. He is now experienced, understands the NBA and I feel that BC is more than ready to take those kid-gloves off whatever hard-ass defensive minded coach they bring in.

My question is does my logic make sense? Is it fair to assume that a new coach could force him to play more inside on the offensive end, by drawing up more plays that way and threatening a short leash if he voluntarily drifts outside too much? Or are offenses less constructed and more fluid, meaning plays didn't put him out there, just his natural instinct/preferences did???

I have followed basketball for years, but have not had tons of direct exposure to good coaching, so I have a questions I want to throw out there.

In games when Bargnani played in the post and hit his first few shots, I found that he was very effective, full of confidence and seemed more dialed in on the defensive end (at least his man-2-man d). I hated games where he played on the perimeter from the start and relied on long jump shots, because if he didn't start the game hot, he was essentially worthless (or needed 20 shots to make 20 pts).

Personally, I always felt that more of the blame should have fallen to Triano, rather than Bargs, because I assumed he played out at the perimeter as part of the set plays. I would love to see a coach come in that demands he establish himself as an inside offensive presence more consistently (having some decent 3pt threats would help).

That is one of the reasons I lean towards keeping Bargs, since I feel if he is used properly and gets his ass kicked and benched when he doesn't play up to expectations on both ends of the court, he could be a real asset. I know Smitch attempted this, but as a young kid who was just drafted 1st overall, coming to a new league in a new country, I somewhat understand why BC wanted him treated with kid-gloves back then. He is now experienced, understands the NBA and I feel that BC is more than ready to take those kid-gloves off whatever hard-ass defensive minded coach they bring in.

My question is does my logic make sense? Is it fair to assume that a new coach could force him to play more inside on the offensive end, by drawing up more plays that way and threatening a short leash if he voluntarily drifts outside too much? Or are offenses less constructed and more fluid, meaning plays didn't put him out there, just his natural instinct/preferences did???

You`re right about establishing the inside game. Last year was the first year he consistently showed a post game and put it on the deck a hell of a lot more. I can still here Jack Armstrong commenting about Bargnani getting back to the inside where he was effective in the first quarter like it`s an alarm clock going off on a work day. I can see Triano pulling Bargs away from the basket to pull the centre away etc. and that certainly did not help in the games where he was effective early. But bargs is a jump shooter, and when his shot is on its absolute butter. Problem was he was too inconsistent in his shot last year. It was as if he gained a decent post game but couldn`t mix his jumper with it. But I wouldn`t blame it all on Triano. Bargnani failed tremendously on the D and boards last year. But we forget it was his first season with the keys to the bus, and Bosh never had a team that bad to work with. Do I wanna make excuses for this guy anymore NO. But if we keep him, I wouldn`t be surprised if he picks up the slack. He`s faced heat before but not like this offseason.