Times Union Event NOW on YouTube — Debate over whether Bouchey dominated conversation is settled

There has been some debate on Frank Report about Monday’s Times Union event “Nxivm Exposed’ and whether Barbara Bouchey unfairly dominated the conversation, ignoring the desire of the audience to listen to the other panelists – Catherine Oxenberg and attorney Mike Grygiel.

Concerned Mom wrote, “The overall consensus within 3 tables was that [Bouchey] took over and was taking credit. If anyone on that panel truly made this happen [taking down Nxivm], it was Catherine. Who sadly we didn’t hear much from.”

Anonymous wrote: “Barbara did dominate the discussion. The few times Catherine Oxenberg actually got to speak, Bouchey would often be dismissive of her comments and say, ‘Well I was there!’ implying that Ms. Oxenberg was not. …The audience wanted to hear what each of the panel members had to say and the frustration in the audience was evident. And those who registered online were asked to submit questions to ask the panel. Not a single one of those questions was addressed.”

Albany Defense Attorney With Big Ears wrote, “If the TU actually put up a video of that entire proceeding, Frank Report readers will find out that this summary of the event actually understates how much she sought to dominate the conversation about every issue that was discussed.”

Barbara Bouchey explained, “One of the reasons I spoke more than others is the list of questions the Times Union has was four times more, and I possessed facts and knowledge of NXIVM that neither Catherine nor Michael have, given they were never a part of the NXIVM community. I will respond to this later, but want to be on the record now informing readers that [the Frank Report post describing the TU event] is a slightly jaded portrayal of what I said, and I think it only fair for them to learn of the inaccuracies. The video will be provided, hopefully soon, wherein readers can hear the entire panel discussion, and judge for themselves.”

Did Barbara dominate the conversation? And if she did, was it only because she had so much more important stuff to say than Catherine Oxenberg or Mike Grygiel?

The second question I cannot answer. I leave that to each viewer to decide.

But the first question can be answered: Barbara spoke 71 percent of the time.

How do I know?

I asked longtime Frank Report reader and occasional intern, Julia Brown, to review the entire video and measure the amount of time each panelist spoke – based on the time they had the microphone in their hand.

This is the result:

Catherine Oxenberg spoke for 8.55 minutes.

Barbara Bouchey spoke for 49.51 minutes.

Mike Grygiel spoke for 12.45 minutes.

Julia added: “Barbara was interrupted from her soliloquies by Brendan Lyons with a 10-second question a few times. That may cut Barbara’s time down to 48 or 49 minutes.

“Below is my time chart based on the video. Barbara often spoke for 4 or 5 minutes straight, while Catherine’s replies were usually under one minute. Mike Grygiel spoke the least number of times but was less susceptible to Barbara interrupting and being dismissive so he actually spoke a little longer than Catherine.”

No offense to Barbara but it is funny that Frank had a intern printout a spread sheet.

Frank, you are incorrigible.

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Barbara you should laugh the whole episode/story off. Do not let it bother you seriously. Do not take any of it seriously, Frank has quite the sense of humor just watch the Vice episode about him.

It matters because it wasn’t the Barbara Bouchey panel and Catherine Oxenberg and Mike Grygiel had just as much relevance and their insights just as interesting as Bouchey but obviously Barbara didn’t think so.. And the fact she was dismissive of Catherine’s role is also problematic because hearing about her struggles to get India out is as harrowing as anything in the news..

If you’re asking questions about a cult then someone who spent years in it at a senior level and was sleeping with the leader will know a lot more than someone who did a few courses and left and a lawyer who dealt with some cases involving them. Why do you think they would have “as much relevance”? She spoke a lot but most of the questions were aimed at her.

I am glad that someone taped the whole panel discussion, and it is now available for everyone to view so as to make their own judgment of how it went.

It has been an intense and emotional few days for various reasons, including many comments on the FrankReport portraying how the panel discussion went, along with many inaccuracies of what I did or didn’t say.

I will do my best to respond to all questions, however, given the events of the last week along with a backlash of negativity towards me – I hope you might understand why I am taking a few days for a breather.

I will touch base on two things right now, and expand more when I respond at a later time.

One, is to say now is that moderator and journalist Brendan Lyons showed me the list of questions to be asked during the panel discussion PRIOR to it beginning. It was a page long of typed questions. There were only a handful of questions listed under Catherine and Michael’s name, however, the majority of the questions were listed under my name to be asked. THIS is why I spoke much of the time, which was by planned by the TU in advance. I was fine with that given I was the only one on the panel involved within the NXIVM community and possessed much of the knowledge that the audience had requested to be asked.

Two, the readers may recall in my comments last week that I mentioned one month after leaving NXIVM that I met with the FBI, U.S. Attorney General’s Office, Immigration, Customs, and the IRS. At that time, I provided them with the knowledge that I did have about the abuses, unethical conduct and other things. This included emails I had recovered from my computer server AFTER I left NXIVM (which had been deleted by one of my key long-standing employee), which contained around 30 emails with minutes of meetings between certain high-ranking members that this employee conducted secretly in my office for over a year. I also shared this info with these authorities including a list of NXIVM member’s status as foreign immigrants. I further informed them of the young underage girl I witnessed at volleyball with Keith one month before I quit, which alarmed me, along with my full knowledge of this Mexican family, and their children, who arrived in the community in 2003. Therefore, I DID ALERT the authorities of what I knew and hoped they would investigate.

I hope that you will keep an open mind and gather more information BEFORE assuming what I did or didn’t know, and what I did do or didn’t do before casting doubt and or judgment.

One more thing, I hope that with this new information coming to light on why the list of questions in large part were meant for me, and that I agreed with Brendan Lyons to answer them ahead of time, that he might consider editing this post as it is very misleading why I spoke more than the others.

Previously as I have mentioned I think you are a good person who endured hell.

I think at this point in time with regards to you stating “Nxivm did some good”, and comparing it to the” Catholic Church” you are creating a huge public relations nightmare for yourself.

Barbara If you think the pushback you are receiving now at the Frankreport is bad, wait until the press/media starts covering the actual trial and much of the public hears about the lurid and depraved aspects of Nxivm and Raniere for the first time.

People are going to pile on and attack you like a crazed mob. Barbara if you persist on defending the “good” NXIVM you are giving your detractors the ammunition they need to destroy your reputation completely. Barbara you will be attacked in social networks and perhaps even in the media. Media shows will trick you to coming on their shows and than tear you apart for ratings.

I do not wish to see someone who has endured so much misery suffer anymore.

Barbara please at the very least put of your defense of the good that Nxivm did and comparing it to the Catholic Church, for sometime.

Barbara if you think the pushback and attacks are bad now…….April will seem like an unadulterated living nightmare if you continue on with your defense of “NXIVM good”.

Do us a favor, and don’t refer to NXIVM as a “community” ever again. That word reminds me of David Koresh, Heaven’s Gate, Jim Jones, Charles Manson, etc. I don’t think that is the image you want to project, or is it, Barb?

I don’t understand why you need a breather, just answer the questions. It should be helpful to reduce your stress level to get the information in the open.

When did the audience request which questions/topics to be asked?

Why did your employee remove emails? Was it an accident, were they loyal to NXIVM, or some other reason?

Did you also go to the press with your story? Did you start a website? It could have saved you from the NXIVM lawsuits coming your way and put pressure on the government to do something.

Barbara has the most important viewpoint. It is only right she did the talking. Thank God she did. She made the event worthwhile watching. Besides she is really very nice looking. Still hot. And she’s single. Forget about Allison and Kristin Kreuk. In the day Barbara was ALWAYS the hottest woman in NXIVM only Keith had her all to himself.

I didn’t like Barbara speaking so much. It was as if the forum was about her and not about Keith and his crimes. It was all about her. And comparing nxivm with the catholic church!! C’mon Barb, the Catholic church has bad people, but nxivm was created by someone bad, they get to you from what you are afraid of, and grab you from that, to squeeze all the juice they can out from you! No good came out from there, the only good that was in there was that they had good people that wanted to change the world, the bad is that they took advantage of that and changed them, the Catholic church is another thing. (or any religion in fact). If you protect the system, you are in fact guilty also because as you see, all the people that took the course and belonged to the community were affected. There are many foreigners who didn’t even met Keith who ARE affected, got a divorce, cut relationships with parents or long-time friends, lost all their money and gained debts thanks to the nxivm draining so don’t say that the system is good and that it helps the human beings and that human potential rocks because it does not, this system disconnects you from your feelings, and makes you look like an autistic person (with all due respect for the autistic persons), but this is what the system does, it gets you into another language, a Keith Raniere convenient language and it zooms you into the darkest place of all, but hey, guess what, you feel you are doing good and that all the others are wrong BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THERE YET!! Wake up and smell the coffee Barb. Nxivm is bad, even if it made you feel good. Have you spoken to people who consume drugs? They feel they are great but the aftermath is bazooka! And uhmmm guess what? DRUGS ARE BAD FOR YOU, AND SO IS NXIVM

Barbara, with all due respect, Catherine was involved as well. She just saw the writing on the wall and did not invest herself as much.
As far as the young girl, I do not for a minute think you did not say something once you spoke to the authorities, my concern is that you didn’t contact them instantly.

Come on, Scott. Nobody seems to hate Barbara more than this Jim Smith character. Even he came to her defense regarding this point on a different comment section. He explained to you why she couldn’t/shouldn’t have done this.

I believe that many of Raniere’s girlfriends, past and present, are seriously damaged by the experience.
And I believe that Raniere often attracted women who already had deep personal issues before they began their affairs with the “man.”
From my understanding Bouchey still has feelings for the huckster Vanguard.

I strongly disagree about the”good Nxivm did” ; which occurs in the video at the 45min mark. I honestly believe Barbara is sincere, unfortunately the reality is Nxivm ruined and destroyed people’s lives as well as countless families.

I believe Barbara did go to the FBI, U.S. Attorney General’s Office, Immigration, Customs, and the IRS. Her attempt at reporting NXIVM to various government agencies met the same succes as everyone else that reported Nxivm, it accomplished nothing.

The US government contrary to popular opinion is actually under staffed. The IRS
is a great example:
“According to data seen by Reuters, At its peak in 1995, the agency had 3,358 agents.”…

In 2018 the IRS had approximately 2,500 special enforcement agents.

I have no interest in debating politics by my example. I am just pointing out that Barbara is most likely telling the truth. So many other people went to state law enforcement in New York and we’re turned away. Not even a regional newspaper could get state or federal officials to take notice.

Besides a website, which I will be honest I am shocked that it worked, what else could anyone have done? Seriously

I honestly would like to know. I am completely open to anything you might suggest.

Seriously Scott what else could they have done? Besides the website idea.

Frank is actually a trailblazer off sorts, I don’t know if he realizes the significance of what he’s done with his website in taking on Nxivm. Frank’s success means a whole new world for victims advocacy provided someone like Frank is at the helm.

I strongly disagree about the”good Nxivm did” ; which occurs in the video at the 45min mark. I honestly believe Barbara is sincere, unfortunately the reality is Nxivm ruined and destroyed people’s lives as well as countless families.

Very true.
If people want a self-help course, Barnes and Noble has self-help books for 20 dollars without Worshiping the Vanguard.

Barb – Thank you for standing up and being vocal about this. Great information and much appreciated.

When you are done dodging haymakers and are ready to comment on FR, can you please tell us more about the volleyball? I’m guessing we won’t get to see any leaked video, so I’m relying on you for filling us in on important things like Keith’s vertical leap, if he regularly wore knee pads, who the good players were, and who the last ones were to be picked?

The video was horrifying to watch. It was like watch a bad pilot of the Barbara Bouchey Show.
It would be interesting to see what some Cult Experts, psychologists who specialize in PTSD and narcissism have to say about her performance.

Who came up with the questions? Was it just the TU or did the panel speakers come up with some/all of the questions?

How many of the questions for each party involved got answered? It seems like Bouchey took most of the time. Was it planned that way or was she just pushy with her answers.

Is the rumor true that Barbara Bouchey bought 25 tickets to give out to actors to give her a standing ovation?

I don’t know how Barbara Bouchey can say she did not known about the other women. When I took a 16 day course and went to one Vanguard week shortly afterward my 16 day (and quickly did an exit forever afterwards), it was pretty clear that her part time lover, Vanguard had more than a just lesbian lover. How could you be so blind Barbara to the fact he had other girlfriends?

I don’t understand why it had to be so hush hush he was having sex with you unless he was telling other women the same lie?

Don’t understand what the concern is regarding who spoke the most amount of time. Was it a contest? Hardly. Why not appreciate what was shared and perhaps have a second or third event. Clearly, there is more to be told.

This article is SO STUPID! Of course Barbra will speak a lot more than Catherine! She has so much more to say based on her EXTENSIVE experience with NXIVM as compared to Catherine who was in NXIVM for only a couple years and who wan’t that involved!

Catherine Oxenberg is asked a question regarding the government corruption she witnessed. Catherine Oxenberg’s answer to the question seems to get cut out, to her passing the “floor” back the moderator/reporter.

At some point the recording stopped and started again. I watched the clip 5 times.

The recording positively stops and starts.

Did anyone else watching the video notice this. I am sure nothing nefarious happened I just wish I could hear what Catherine said.
One of the most intriguing and disturbing aspects of this case is federal,state, and local law enforcement corruption.

I would greatly appreciate hearing what Catherine said about the federal government officials.

Right after that, she said nobody ever asked her if she was in a relationship with Raniere. That’s probably because it was obvious, as she had just said that when she and Raniere came into a room people made room for them to sit together, they held hands, etc. She said she would have been honest and straightforward, but what would she have said? Yes? No? Other?

I attended the Times Union Event and can say that Catherine Oxenburg was not asked as many questions, was not open to a long answer and was asked questions that required a simple answer, such as, “Does India live with you?” Of course Barbara spoke more, she was asked more questions that required explanations and background. As far as the lawyer, he spoke about his case but didn’t have the inside information and he wasn’t asked many questions. This should even be part of the discussion.