Friday, June 25, 2010

Ergun Caner Removed as Head of Liberty University Seminary

"Liberty University announced today that Ergun Caner will no longer be dean of the university’s Baptist Theological Seminary.

After an investigation conducted by four members of Liberty’s Board of Trustees, the university said it found that Caner has made “factual statements that are self-contradictory” concerning “dates, names and places of residence.“ The statements included his description of being raised as a Muslim in Turkey, when documents indicate he moved to the United States at the age of 4.

His contract as dean of the seminary expires on June 30 and will not be renewed, according to a statement from LU. Caner will continue to serve on the seminary’s faculty, as a professor."

This is sad news, but it is about what I expected, and the best that could have been hoped for by Caner in this circumstance. Although Reed doesn't report on this, my hunch is that Caner may have expressed remorse and actually repented over his decade of deceit, and thus they justified keeping him on as a professor, but determined that his exaggerations and other statements made during his speaking tours prevented him from being able to remain as president of the seminary.

This is exactly what I had predicted would happen when I wrote the following on my blog May 18th, when I gave a Christian defense of Ergun Caner. It was then that I said:

"I don't see how at this point he can stay as president of the Liberty seminary even if he truly repents, if for no other reason than for the academic credibility of the university. But if he truly repents for the decade of deceit as the "Preaching-Circuit Ergun" and seeks forgiveness, my hope is that he will stay as a professor at Liberty, and even as a preacher at the Campus Church, and continue his ministry to students. So that is my hope for Ergun.

I will pray for him, that he will do the right thing."

Perhaps he did do the right thing, and repented, and this allowed him to stay on staff at Liberty University.

All in all I am pleased that Liberty has taken this action. It will help to salvage their reputation, and it shows the world that a high-profile preacher who speaks lies from the pulpit will eventually be held accountable by his peers. As one that was present at FBC Jacksonville in November 2001 when Caner first came on the scene claiming to be a Jihadist trained in 9/11 style terrorism, I am pleased that my blog nine years later in 2010 contributed to the gathering of the evidence needed to confront Caner with his deception.

Sadly, the University will never be able to erase the disgrace that it took Internet bloggers like myself and a host of others, including Mohammad Khan, to finally get action out of Liberty University on this important issue.

As a Southern Baptist pastor who will recommend to my students colleges and seminaries to attend, I have serious reservations about recommending Liberty to any my young people. How many other liars are they keeping on the faculty?They admit he lied but they are going to keep him on any way.

Hey Liberty, Darryl Gilyard will be out of prison in a couple of years, you got a position for him?

I'm certain that without exposure from blogs like this one, Liberty might have continued to cover for their top man. Yes. With Caner still on the faculty, I'd hesitate before sending a student their way.

You were right, but I think that this hurts Liberty's credibility in the long run. They have chosen to retain Caner as a professor of theology and apologetics when not only much of his life in the past ten years has tarnished his Christian Witness, but the quality of his scholarship, research and writing is now also questionable. Claiming to know Arabic and then totally bombing in his public presentations should raise questions about the quality of the remainder of his work.

I am all for forgiveness, repentence and restoration, don't get me wrong. However, that should have happened after Liberty terminated Caner's employment.

And I continue to raise the question, how much of this embellishing continues to go on in Baptist life, fundamentalist circles, and the wider body of the church universal?

"You were right, but I think that this hurts Liberty's credibility in the long run. They have chosen to retain Caner as a professor of theology and apologetics when not only much of his life in the past ten years has tarnished his Christian Witness, but the quality of his scholarship, research and writing is now also questionable. "

You got what you wanted my Brother! Congrats! Dr. Caner has helped me in my walk with God and my understanding of His Word. Dr. Caner always taught us to become all things to all people. He was the Best at that! He did exactly what Paul said..."He became all things to all men that he might win some to Christ" and Dr. Caner was crucified for that. He got a few dates mixed up and a few facts out of sorts....I caught a fish a few weeks ago and I have changed my story about how big it really was....I couldn't fully remember! I don't remember everything about when I was 5 years old...Come on now!Good news though....You can probably build a new house out of that big piece of lumber that is coming out of your eye!

10:57 you're delusional.and thats what happens when people are your idols. God is the one who said to tell the truth.So, I hope sincerely that Ergun Caner goes in to counseling to find out why he felt he had to lie.Nobody wants this guy to be unemployed or ruined or anything else. So come on, 10:57...you really think anybody wanted this to happen? Ergun Caner brought it on himself. The good news is that God forgives people and gives another chance. Thats the good news of Christianity. I'm glad for Ergun Caner that God stopped him and is giving him a real chance now, not bound to falsehood. If God didn't love Ergun Caner, He wouldn't have cared what he did in the pulpit, right? Now he can preach and not be bound to lies. Its probably a relief to him.

I suspect Caner will keep the same salary, and there will never be a public apology. Truth be known, he's probably happier now not having to do all the "formal" stuff that goes with being a seminary president. I'm sure he'd much rather hang out with the students and be a Bubba, and now he'll have more time for that!

"The SBC Today Bunch is so far into left field they are almost over the wall."

Imagine no internet where one cannot substantiate these sorts of things but knows someone famous is lying over a long period of time. how does one get others to see it?

You see, this has always worked for them. THEY decided the venue. THEY rewrote the facts, THEY defined sin. And it was done as a group providing cover for each other and following the leader. it worked because they had power and controlled the information.

Now it is not working but the tactics are ingrained.

If you think about it, they most likely knew what the outcome was going to be and gave us hints along the way. There is a communication grapevine of what to say on blogs. Don't think there isn't.

They WANTED the focus to be on those who said Caner was not a Muslim. They tried hard with that one but most were not buying into it.

And if you read the Liberty statement closely it hints at this. That is why they say he is exonerated because the investigation decided he was a Muslim!

Most of us agreed he was a Muslim of some sort except for Debbie and her crew. He was a Muslim by virtue of having a Muslim father sort of like one being described as a Christian because of being born into a Christian family. It was always silly to deny he was any sort of Muslim. But that is not what the Muslims involved in this wanted to hear.

So, the SBCToday gang declares a win and tells everyone to "move on".

And we have an unrepentant liar teaching future pastors. We even read the other day a current student saying she heard 7 minutes of him claiming his innocence that she recorded on her cell phone and offered as evidence and then for some reason changed her mind the next day. Hmm. Me thinks Caner is back in the business. Perhaps he cannot help himself?

WD-Just curious and I'm not sure here, but wasn't it Caner who told the membership that Dr. Brunson was just a redneck who drove around in a pick-up truck? If so, then that is just another lie told to God's people for personal benefit of him and/or his cronies.

Yes, Caner was interviewed by Jeff Brumley back in 2006 in one of the first articles in the Times Union introducing Brunson:

"That modesty and his Southern boy-meets-seminary theologian manner make him one of the most sought-after preachers in the 16.2 million-member denomination and will help him succeed at First Baptist Jacksonville, Caner said.

"Mac carries in his own groceries, drives his own pickup truck and picks his teeth with a business card," Caner said. "That's Mac, and that's why we love him."

New Testament Greek rolls off his tongue in sermons as easily as analogies between his wife's grits and God's grace. Both are delivered in a deep, Southern drawl.

"I'm a country boy," he told worshipers at the pastors' conference in Jacksonville Feb. 6. "I grew up in South Carolina eating grits, and I'm not ashamed of it."

Yes Lydia, I did say that and looking from a Muslim's point of view I still say that. He was not an ex-Muslim according to what a Muslim truly is. It has been equated to what we believe a true Christian is. According to a practicing devout Muslim, birth in the family does not a Muslim make. It's be devout or you are not a Muslim, there is no inbetween here.

If you will read any post on my blog where I talk about this, for me it is more an issue of semantics. To say that he is a Muslim but not a devout one is also fine with me.

I beg to differ. The Caner situation was brought to a head by Christian bloggers which include Rich, Burleson, and Kaufman. These folks have changed the face of Christian accountability and I tip my hat to all of them.

2:36: Right, Tom is no Matt Drudge - he is Tom Rich, and indeed someone who brought to light "facts" that never would have come out had he along with others who commented on this blog who kept doing research until the truth came out.

This reporter needs to be commended for acknowledging Mr. Rich in his newspaper article.

As a parent, I'm pleased as well that Liberty took this action.

"Tom Rich, another blogger who frequently wrote about Caner, said Friday that, “I am pleased that Liberty has taken this action. It will help to salvage their reputation, and it shows the world that a high-profile preacher who speaks lies from the pulpit will eventually be held accountable by his peers.”

FFBI - I know that many are not happy with the terribly weak Liberty statement, refusing to call Caner's lies what they were. And some wanted him removed completely.

But their actions speak the loudest and they are the most important. The statement was probably negotiated to help Caner and his defenders save a little bit of face, and to not overly embarrass the SBC legend heavyweights who were resopnsible for launching Caner to SBC stardom without checking his story out.

But we all know: you don't demote the prez to a teacher for "misstatements". You do it for a decade of deceit when you have confirmed that the allegations were true. Can you imagine a mega church pastor like Charles Stanley or Steve Gaines being demoted to a Middle School director? It hurts these guys, and I don't think Caner will stay at Liberty long.

My hunch is he will be there one year or less, and won't have much of a teaching load. I look at this as a year's severance pay to give him time to get his next job.

Prediction: Caner will continue to speak, and will probably get a TV show on the INSP or the TBN. He is a ham for the camera, and I think he has a bright future. He will be the next Dennis Swanberg, a Christian comedian of sorts with his irreverent sense of humor. He is a self-proclaimed olive-skinned "towel head" and will continue to get laughs with his racial humor. He needs a good Christian marketer to help him rebuild his brand (hmmm, I wonder who could help him) and he will have a bright future. Just my prediction.

I was watching Deadliest Catch last night. When I get to heaven I will ask God why in his sovereignty, Capt. Phil Harris died of a stroke and all of you pathetic self aggrandizing jackals are still breathing. Well there's always tomorrow.A pox on all your houses.

Not taking credit for anything. Just saying that I am pleased that 8 1/2 years after I sat there and Caner duped me and convinced me that he was an ex-terrorist raised in Europe in Islamic Youth Jihad, my blog was able to contribute to investigation by exposing his deception from that November 2001 sermon at FBC Jax.

The Caner story was the front page headline story in the News & Advance...something you don't necessarily glean from the N & A website. If anyone wants a photo of it I'll take one and send it to you. Definitely a very obvious story! One thing that bothers me though...every article Mr. Reed has done has had the comments turned off. Why? They don't seem to do that with other LU stories. In fact, usually there's a ton of comments on any story about LU. They didn't turn them off for the convocation direction caught breaking and entering houses to steal narcotic drugs and they didn't turn them off for the professor who was convicted of sexually assualting a student.

anon 9:40 wrote "It is simply amazing to me that now the standard is absolute total sinlessness."

The thing that is truly amazing is that anybody could be so far removed from truth as to make the comment you made. The issue has absolutely NOTHING to do with "sinlessness." The issue is that Caner REFUSES TO REPENT despite the fact that he has been caught in a decade of lies!

How is it possible that you could fail to understand this simple fact? I find it absolutely impossible to believe that any human being could be as deceived as you and still be able to write posts.

Actually, there is an even bigger story...how few "Christians" understand the Word who go to these churches and seminary's.If they did, they would recognize "hirlings" and "woloves".

"If Peter were alive today, there is absolutely no way that he would have been allowed to be a Leader in the local church."

Actually, Peter was publicly rebuked by Paul for his behavior. And in comparison to what we have witnessed by "pastors", what Peter did would not seem that big of a deal.

But Paul knew it was a big deal. He did not go to Peter privately. He rebuked him in front of everyone even though Peter was a more 'senior' apostle. Perhaps Paul was witch hunting in your view?

Be careful whom you follow and listen to. Some of these celebrity pastors are leading you right off a cliff.

Go read Hebrews 10: 26-31 and tell us what it means about those who willfully and continually sin knowing yet knowing the truth.

Then go read 1 John. All of it.

Jesus Christ WILL present a pure Bride to Himself. Not a perfect one but a pure one. If you do not know the difference, then dig into the Word to find out. It is becoming increasingly obvious that pew sitters in these pastors churches really do not understand the Word in context.

9:40 anon person. You need to study the Bible. The Bible has a lot to say regarding liars. The sum total of what you don't know and what you are willing to COMPROMISE with is astounding. You can't be serious about comparing Paul with ANYONE on this planet today!!!! IF you are capable of understanding ANYTHING in the Bible you would be embarassed by your own stupidity!!!

I am *disgusted* by a few comments on here that include Dr. Caner's wife. Shame on you!! Perverse and pathetic. Shows your true nature.

June 27, 2010 12:47 PM

It is truly sad that Caner chose to speak quite a bit about his wife and her family in his "sermons". Frankly, he spoke more about himself and his wife than he did about Jesus Christ. Which is what has gotten him into so much trouble. He made himself the center of attention.

I live in the Lynchburg area, and my children have a negative view of LU because it's all they've heard from the locals. I remind my children all the time that "a prophet is not welcome in its own home town" and that the folks at LU are good people. My children will not even begin to think about attending LU. But now they are seeing this about Caner in the news and all it does is reinforce the negative things they've heard about LU in the four years we've lived here. Pretty sad.

Biblewheel - I think now that there is some level of resolution to this, and LU has investigated, given their statement, and taken their action, now we have to consider:

- what does the Caner decade say about SBC pew sitters who soaked it all in and laughed and guffawed at all his stories and jokes the past 8 1/2 years?

- what does the Caner decade say about the SBC leaders who vaulted him to instant stardom post 9/11? Why did they not do their due diligence in confirming his story, or did they know but did nothing because a good testimony, true or not, SELLS!

- what does this say about pastors who knew Caner pre 9/11 and saw that he was something different post 9/11 - did they say anything to SBC leadership? If not, why not? Do our seminaries train their students on ethics of truthfulness in their testimonies and their preaching?

- why did Falwell not do his due diligence before hiring Caner to ensure his testimony was true?

Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on US. We've been fooled at least twice by SBC leaders when it comes to SBC preacher celebrities.

If we didn't know before, we certainly have no excuse now. Theres simply been too many examples of Christianity being USED as a big business. It's our responsibility to be aware and no longer be blindly fooled.

Excellent questions! You asked "- what does the Caner decade say about SBC pew sitters who soaked it all in and laughed and guffawed at all his stories and jokes the past 8 1/2 years?"

I have noticed that a lot of folks say they like Caner because he is "politically incorrect" and not afraid to "speak truth about Christianity." But they got it all mixed up. They get the "politically incorrect" feeling not from Caner preaching the Gospel, but from Caner making racial and sexist jokes about Mexicans, women, and blacks! Consider the depth of deception here: they are confusing being bold for Jesus with insulting people who are different than themselves!!! That is a horror of great proportion. It is exactly the OPPOSITE of the Gospel that teaches us to love our neighbor!

Note also that the Liberty Way says Caner would be kicked out if he were a student making those kinds of jokes. It seems that logical incoherence characterizes the Liberty campus.

So what does this say about the people in the pews? They are poorly taught - so I blame it on the teachers and preachers who tickle their ears for money and fame.

You also wrote: "- what does this say about pastors who knew Caner pre 9/11 and saw that he was something different post 9/11 - did they say anything to SBC leadership? If not, why not? Do our seminaries train their students on ethics of truthfulness in their testimonies and their preaching?"

It says to me that they are corrupt. See below.

You also wrote: Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on US. We've been fooled at least twice by SBC leaders when it comes to SBC preacher celebrities.

The shame is on us, the lay people in the SBC.

Yes, there is shame on the people, but then again, there is a reason Scripture warns that teachers would be subject to greater judgment.

I think your aphorism is spot on. It seems we have an outrageously absurd situation on our hands. Liberty actively and openly tried to suppress the truth before the second "inquiry" (remember, the first "inquiry" that exonerated Caner "wasn't an inquiry or anything like that") so it should be no great surprise that their second "inquiry" whitewashed the situation. It's funny how it fulfills your aphorism. They tried to fool us with the first fake inquiry - we would be fools indeed to believe the results of their second, especially with its transparently absurd "factual statements that are self-contradictory."

I won't mince words - I believe that the leadership of LU is absolutely corrupt. Here's how I explained it in today's post:

The locals here in Lynchburg are hurt and wounded over the castration of Ergun Caner. Here is a man that has sought to lead thousands to Christ and is being persecuted by a handful of zealots! There is a petition started to get him reinstated to his position and I can promise you that you have not seen the last of Dr. Caner. He will come out of these ashes and will not be destroyed by trumped up charges by pseudo-Christian groups.

I am just thankful that in a time when so many Christians are reaching out to help the suffering, the dying and the lost in the world, there are still some who remember the causes that are closest to God's heart, like self-righteous blogs aimed at dividing the body of Christ.

I am just thankful that in a time when so many Christians are reaching out to help the suffering, the dying and the lost in the world, there are still some who remember the causes that are closest to God's heart, like self-righteous blogs aimed at dividing the body of Christ.

June 28, 2010 9:18 AM

How you blaspheme the Body of Christ when you suggest it is made up of consistent willful liars and that is no big deal to our Lord. Try reading Revelation 21.

I am just thankful for Christians like Ergun Caner who are reaching out to help the suffering, the dying and the lost in the world by showing them how to get rich off 9/11 by lying in the name of Christ.

Would Jesus blog? He didn't have to. He wrote the bible. Read it and see what he called white walls, hypocrits, apostates, self righteousness, and on and on. Obviously you fail to call spade a spade. Loosen up and get some composure. Then re-read Pauls epistles and you might just learn what is real Christianity!!!

Anon 7:37. I notice no bile just facts here. If people were all alike there would be no individualism. Also, no reason to attend church. Well, maybe that last one could be comforting. Deacons do smoke and some even drink beer and alcohol particularly Baptist especially in the South. Where you been?

The Ergun Caner's of the world are not going away because one of them was caught. The peddlers of falsehood will continue to plague the church. They can only be thwarted when we stop exalting talented ministers without regard for truth or character, when we demand that preachers give us Christ and the Scriptures rather than anecdotes and jokes, when we recover a sense of the glory of God in worship and put away our crass desire for entertainment, and when we trust God to give growth to the church rather than put our faith in men and programs.

Thy Peace. You hit the nail on the head. Oftemtimes the members have no idea what is going on until it is too late. This is the main argument about one studying their own Bible. I'm afraid too many are just too lazy to open their Bibles and that is the main reason so many are FOOLED and some of these preachers know it and take advantage of their sleeping pew sitters. Shame on both the sleeping pew sitters and the idle shepherds.

Thy Peace. You hit the nail on the head. Oftemtimes the members have no idea what is going on until it is too late. This is the main argument about one studying their own Bible. I'm afraid too many are just too lazy to open their Bibles and that is the main reason so many are FOOLED and some of these preachers know it and take advantage of their sleeping pew sitters. Shame on both the sleeping pew sitters and the idle shepherds.

June 29, 2010 7:54 AM

It is easy to tell who these are, too. They parrot the sermon soundbite proof texts very well. But do not understand them in context. I see it on this blog all the time.

It makes me want to weep. Teachers of the Word are going to have quite a bit to answer for. But the pew sitter will answer for not studying on their own, too.

This blog and entire conversation is sickening. Truth or not - it is keeping the church from action. Just what the Evil One desires...all believers bantering on Ergun Caner...not Jesus or reaching the lost...Ergun Caner. May we all repent of not being about the mission of the Father right now and spending WAY too much time on this - no matter what side of the issue you're on. Father forgive us.

FBC Jax Watchdog wrote, "Hi Craig - sure, come on down to Jacksonville. Let me know when you get here."

Watchdog, this guy's history does not inspire confidence. Do you really want a sometime homeless man who has threatened you with violence to show up on your porch? I don't think it's an act, I think he really is mental.

I have taken the Liberty to string a few of the comments of Craig Daliesso together for you. With the friendships that you have made with state and federal prosecutors, they may wish to take have a copy:

CraigD2599 - "These people are beneath you and I and those others who considered ourselves friends of Ergun Caner ... my advice is not to respond anymore. If I catch them I will hurt them…period" June 29, 2010 SBC Today

CraigD2599 - "If one of these unsaved charlatans died I’d have to force myself to remember what I believe about hell and make myself be sorrowful for the fate of their souls" June 29, 2010 SBC Today

CraigD2599 - "I feel a trip to Jax is on the horizon..." FBC Watchdog, June 29, 2010

I am confident Craig Daliessio is unaware that threats of physical bodily harm over the Internet are taken seriously by the FBI, and depending on the person against whom the threats are made, considered felonies in every state of the Union.

Wade: here is the last one Craig left for me, posted right about the time he said he might have to come down to Jacksonville

CraigD2599 has left a new comment on your post "Caner/Liberty Aftermath: What They're Saying":

FBC Jackass you left this on my blog. Keep your crap away from my site. You aren't in my league as a writer, as a Christian or as a man. If you'd care to prove the latter wrong, a meeting could be arranged.You sicken me and you sicken Christ. You went after Caner's WIFE. You're going to rot in hell and if I could get away with it I'd enjoy sending you there on a shuttle.Here is the post where you refer to a great man like Dr. Geisler as "Baghdad Bob"."FBC Jax Watchdog has left a new comment on your post "Norman Geisler Speaks About Dr. Ergun Caner":

It's more like Bagdad Bob saying "The Americans are not here, they have been defeated".

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About Me

We're small, insignificant, and harmless. But we have a loud, piercing bark that seems to annoy those in mega churches the most. Not Kool-Aid drinkers, only fresh, filtered water, please; with Grape or Cherry flavoring from Walmart. "Let him alone; God hath bidden him to speak:"