Simipour- Outclassed? Or not?

Simipour is often looked down upon in the world of Water-types due to subpar bulk and somewhat average offenses, which is one of the many reasons to use them, as many of them have good bulk. Even in NU, the water monkey faces direct competition from fellow Water types such as Gorebyss and Ludicolo, which have access to moves that make them extremely threatening. However, there are several things which set it apart from its aquatic brethren. Access to Nasty Plot and natural speed are two of the things which make this monkey just as dangerous as the aforementioned threats, as well as coverage moves such as Focus Blast.

What are good sets for Simipour? What are potential checks/counters? Is it worth using over other Water-types? Post sets/experiences below!

SubSalac Simipour is pretty good because it has 3 more spots left for STAB + Coverage, and it's 3 coverage move covers pretty much the entire tier. The strategy with this is pretty basic: Substitute until you get to Torrent + Salac / Petaya Berry range, and fire off insanely high powered STAB Surfs. Ice Beam and Grass Knot let you hit Grass and Water-types, respectively. Salac Berry is useful if you need Speed, although if you want to hit even more harder, Petaya Berry is the best option.

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I really like giving it specs, mainly because it really has a great base speed already and specs is rly powerful. Actually thinking about it specs doesn't really do that much compared to the other sets but I just like the extra power. :x Simipour is a great attacker though and its base speed in general makes it sometimes more useful than the other big water mons.

Super Moderator

To me, it's almost entirely outclassed. Really, Simipour's main niche is its speed. Pretty much anything Simipour can do (well), Samurott can do better. It has better bulk and a noticable difference in base SpA. Simipour can run a physical set, but this would usually carry Acrobatics, and without STAB to back it up, he's going to miss that item slot used for a Flight Gem once it has been consumed. Probably the most viable set that Simipour can run better than Samurott is a mixed set to help get by the sturdiest special walls in NU such as Lickilicky and Regice.

Ultimately, if you can manage to run an effective set on Simipour, that's great. But in my opinion, there is usually someone who is going to fill that role better.

AcroPour is a really cool set. Also, its access to Nasty Plot and a great speed tier (for NU) mean once it sets up, it is very good at killing things. Its subpar bulk lets it down, though, as any scarfer will probably KO it. Simipour also makes a great threat to Golurk, which is one of the best mons in the tier right now imo.

What Samurott doesn't have, however, is access to Nasty plot and Gluttony: any successful niche Simipour has must come from that. I ran a NP + 3 attacks set (Hydro pump, Ice beam, HP Grass) with Salac berry, since using Substitute killed my coverage. There're surprisingly a lot of attacks that Simipour can survive one hit of, but weak enough to knock it down to 50% where the Salac berry activates, and unless they have strong priority not named Aqua jet, Ludicolo, or Regice, gg.

As for counters, Ludicolo flat out wins vs this Simipour and probably everything save AcroGem Simi, offensive sets taking a +2 Ice beam to the face for only 73% damage max, while a LO Giga drain is a OHKO. Max Sp. Def Regice takes 49% max from a +2 Hydro pump, threatening back with Thunderbolt. Oddly enough, Sp. Def Bibarel manages to wall Simipour completely, taking 38% from a HP grass, and killing with Return + Quick attack. Roselia and Lickilicky are capable of checking it from full health, especially if Simi's taken damage already.

For revenge killing, priority almost always must be used, so Fake out users, Zangoose and Swellow with Quick attack are the primary ways of ending Simipour's rampage, if it ever starts, anyways.

Brick Break is for hitting Steel Types and Steel/ROck types hard as well as getting rid of screens which can be annoying. Waterfall and Aqua Tail are is primary stab and is realy a choice between accuracy and power. Hone Claws can make Aqua Tail Perfect Accuracy and also works well with Rock Slide but return can be used for extra coverage.
Shadow claw can be used to hit ghost types a little harder and Rockslide can be used to hit the common flying types going around the tier

Brick Break is for hitting Steel Types and Steel/ROck types hard as well as getting rid of screens which can be annoying. Waterfall and Aqua Tail are is primary stab and is realy a choice between accuracy and power. Hone Claws can make Aqua Tail Perfect Accuracy and also works well with Rock Slide but return can be used for extra coverage.
Shadow claw can be used to hit ghost types a little harder and Rockslide can be used to hit the common flying types going around the tier

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Its main STAB is weaker than it would be on any of the other sets (Hpump > Waterfall in power) and you fail to get coverage over bulky physical grass types such as Tangela which you would with Ice Beam, then there's bulky water types such as Alomomola that hate Grass Knot that you can't really do anything to on your set. Physical walls are also more common than special walls in general, too so you're better off going special really.

true but it can suprise the opponent when they try to switch in the LickyLicky to take a Hydro Pump when there meet with a Brick Break or You set up a Hone Claws. Although Simi realy doesnt like being hit with toxic when it already has to deal with life orb recoil

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But Lickylicky is basically 3HKO'd both ways - through Brick Break and Hydro Pump. There is no element of surprise if it can just Dragon Tail it out then Wishtect to restore its HP (at least in regards to the support one). :(

Brick Break is for hitting Steel Types and Steel/ROck types hard as well as getting rid of screens which can be annoying. Waterfall and Aqua Tail are is primary stab and is realy a choice between accuracy and power. Hone Claws can make Aqua Tail Perfect Accuracy and also works well with Rock Slide but return can be used for extra coverage.
Shadow claw can be used to hit ghost types a little harder and Rockslide can be used to hit the common flying types going around the tier

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The problem with physical Simipour is that its physical movepool isn't great. Relying on moves such as Shadow Claw and Return for coverage attest to such, and Samurott has access to SD and lacks the tissue paper defenses of Simipour. Even then, one of the primary reasons to use Simipour is Nasty Plot, so neglecting it and the rest of its useful special movepool for a weaker physical set is not a very good idea. Also, NU is more physically than specially bulky, and as such, the effectiveness of this set is reduced.

That is all true except it doesnt HAVE to have shadow Claw and return shadow claws only there because it hits ghost for 20 Bp more and return is for Grass Types that resist Water type attacks but most of them can be hit with Brick Break

That is all true except it doesnt HAVE to have shadow Claw and return shadow claws only there because it hits ghost for 20 Bp more and return is for Grass Types that resist Water type attacks but most of them can be hit with Brick Break

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Those moves won't be doing much though if Simipour is unboosted due to low BP and lack of STAB, and with Simipour's tissue paper defenses, 3 and 4hkoes are not helpful when most pokemon can comfortably 2hko it at least.

That is all true except it doesnt HAVE to have shadow Claw and return shadow claws only there because it hits ghost for 20 Bp more and return is for Grass Types that resist Water type attacks but most of them can be hit with Brick Break

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But Simipour learns Ice Punch to deal with Grass-types, and Low Kick / Superpower are better than Brick Break (although the latter negates the HC Boost)

And as CBTerrakion and the others said, Simipour is better suited as a Special Attacker with a great 101 base Speed and a solid 98 Special Attack with access to Nasty Plot. Physical ones are outclassed by SD Samurott and even SD Ludicolo since the mexican bush can set up in Alomomola and Frillish.

NU Co-Leader

the most alluring thing about simipour by far is its speed, and i think you guys underplay that a bit. ludicolo and samurott are indeed dominant and some of the best pokemon we have available to us, but they're outsped by a load of other very good threats, like braviary, gardevoir, sawk, rotom-a, sawsbuck, etc. simipour struggles with many of the same problems that the special variants of the other two have, including being unable to break through regice and friends reliably. simipour should really only be used if its speed is a necessity or you'd prefer to not stack weaknesses to stuff like sawsbuck (which IMO is one of the best pokemon right now). it's also the only one of the trio with a special boosting move outside of rain dance, which actually lends it quite a bit since it can do a buttload to regice (+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Regice: 226-266 (62.25 - 73.27%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock).

mixed simipour is uhhh possible, but really you've got access to a much stronger stab in hydro pump, great coverage in ice beam / grass knot, and even a better boosting move (nasty plot > hone claws). the only thing i would really consider along those lines is acrobatics flying gem for a ludicolo / roselia lure if you're really bothered by them. simipour isn't really outclassed but it's just not as useful as the other two; samurott provides a lot of stability and power in one package and can run coverage moves to bypass stuff, while ludicolo is a sweeping dynamo and can run over a load of stuff in a single turn of set-up, while also preventing stuff like gorebyss from running over a team.

I was always a fan of specially attacking Simipour. If anything, it definitely 2HKOes specially defensive Charizard in the sun with hydro pump without any boosts, and outspeeds. Out of sun, surf massacres non specially defensive variants, and even with it manages to hit the 2HKO. With amazing coverage and NP, it's actually possible to sweep entire teams with support taking out checks beforehand.

this is just a bit theorymoning i guess since im about to post a set which i havent tested out due to lack of time. there are three pretty good offensive water types in the tier, and since you obviously dont want a defensive simipour you have to run a offensive set which takes advantage of what Simipour has over these three pokemon. im talking about Samurott, Ludicolo and Gorebyss. where gorebyss and ludicolo serve as rain sweepers (the former also as set-up sweeper), samurott is pretty similiar to Simipour, with good attacking stats and a similiar movepool as well. also, gorebyss and (special) samurott struggle somewhat with Regice, something that Simipour can take care of with Superpower.Simipour has one big thing over all these three, which is a good immediate speed. anyways, here is the set. the idea of it is taking advantage of simipours awesome speed which can be used to revenge frail sweepers while still being capable of dealing with stuff like regice which more than often is a full stop to special attackers (it still misses out on licki though). its a mixed set featuring Superpower:

the EV spread is in such a way that it outspeeds every unboosted base 95 and below. like mentioned earlier you can run max speed to outspeed base 100 and below, but you'll lose some much needed firepower. this set safely 2HKOs standard/offensive restalk regice, who will try to grab a switch in to absorb those hpumps and KO with t-bolt. this means that its not really safe to bring it in on regice unless it has some prior damage, or otherwise you'll end up with a dead monkey. it's worth nothing that this set OHKOs and outspeeds sawsbuck with superpower, as ice beam does 80% of the time (the point is that it outspeeds and KOs sawsbuck). hydro pump is still a really great move even without positive nature, as water moves an are awesome offensive typing in this meta and hpump gets boosted even further when simipour is below 33%. most offensive mons wont like to switch in on hydro pump. ice beam is usually a must for coverage, and the last moveslot is up to you really. she has numerous usable moves, including knock off which can be really annoying to multiple things like eviolite users, grass knot/hp grass for better overall coverage (namely Alomomola though), or in my case Taunt, which makes it annoying for things like Musharna and Alomomola.

if someone has time, maybe you can experiment with this set a little bit, like i said earlier i havent tested it out so sorry in advance.

i gotta go now, maybe ill ad some more later if i've tested it myself.

it's worth nothing that this set OHKOs and outspeeds sawsbuck with superpower, as ice beam does 80% of the time (the point is that it outspeeds and KOs sawsbuck).

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your spread has a guaranteed OHKO on sawsbuck after stealth rock, which isn't too bad, or max spa can be used to make it 88% without stealth rock. that means you're pretty much exclusively using this set to beat regice and lickilicky at the cost of being able to dent other water-types bar ludicolo well. i suppose you can run four attacks if you really wanted to, but why not use focus blast which can already 2HKO lickilicky and regice after stealth rock, or nasty plot which gives simipour the fire power that complements its extraordinary three-attack coverage? given how regice is susceptible to any kind of hazards and is prone to getting worn down, i would much rather use nasty plot and three attacks and save it for a mid- to late-game situation where regice may become a non-issue since it will be taking over half from a +2 hydro pump.