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this test device is high end.. but the devices on the end of the plan are the lower end which are currently bada, bada doesn't allow them easy enough customization and features to go easily for the better-chips cheap phones that are on the way in 2-3 years.

*** now this could have been said about some other os's years ago too. exact same fucking plan. bada already replaced their internal fuckfest of several os's with just about the same justification. also it is their insurance

Samsung Wave phones were pretty decent phones. No, not phablets with gazzilion of everything and the kitchen sink. Just a very good smartphone, with decent browser and some level customization.

On top of that, the whole premise "Samsung develops new mobile OS" is bogus. It might have been the case with Bada, but not the case with the Tizen [wikipedia.org]:

The Tizen Association formed to guide the industry role of Tizen, including requirements gathering, identifying and facilitating service models, and overall industry marketing and education.[4] Members of the Tizen Association represent every major sector of the mobility industry and every region of the world. Current members include operators, OEMs and computing leaders: Fujitsu, Huawei, Intel Corporation, KT, NEC CASIO Mobile Communications, NTT DOCOMO, Orange, Panasonic Mobile Communications, Samsung, SK Telecom, Sprint and Vodafone.

What's more, Tizen isn't particularly "new". Not only there are tried bits of LiMo and Bada inside, but there were already several releases for the "In-Vehicle-Infotainm

Telecoms do lots of development and are involved in lots of connected things. There is no way around it.

Anyway, I'd rather first wait for the Tizen phones to arrive and then evaluate them. Considering the race to bottom Google has choosen as a path forward for Android, Tizen might get a fair chance in the market. That, of course, if the Tizen would be even comparable to Android.

This is the difference between real capitalism, and American capitalism. In real capitalism, you naturally get a race to the bottom. In American capitalism, you get government protectionism to keep your antiquated, inflated business practices afloat while you strip people of every penny you can.

(Posting AC because I'm at work and I don't log into websites from work not because I'm unwilling to put my name behind my post.)

That is simply one of the most moronic things I've read on Slashdot in quite some time.

Or, to put it in a car analogy so you understand why I think you're utterly daft, please ask yourself which auto manufacturers make the high end cars that don't care about competing on price and which manufacturers are primarily interested in being just a bit cheaper than their competitors.

Isn't a "race to the bottom" just a natural consequence of a competitive market working properly?

Only to a point.

A race to the bottom can hit a natural limit under which the only way to make it cheaper is to cut corners. See $500 laptops, cheap LCD monitors, etc, where the GPU is Intel, the screen 1366x768, etc. High res screens are available, but spendy ($300 on sale vs. $80 for 1920x1200 vs. 1080p screens, $500 laptops vs. $1000+ laptops, etc).

That sounds like a market working correctly. Most people want a cheap phone rather than the expensive flagship model and thus the market is selling more of the cheap phones.

480x800 sounds more than enough for most phone functions. Probably a bit small for doing any web browsing, but in my experience people would rather browse the web on a larger screen anyway. It depends on what you want, but a lot of people would buy a cheap phone (gonna drop/break/lose it soon anyway) and a cheap tablet rather than just

Price difference between shit on a stick 1366x768 panel, and a proper 1920x1200 (or even 2K) one is about $20-40. The only other thing you need to change in the whole laptop to swap screens is flex strip connecting lcd with mb because new screen needs two LVDS channels (or is eDP instead of lvds).

As you can see they dont make those shitty ~720p laptops because of component cost. They force this shit on us to artificially create "luxury" (read not totally shitty) market segment.

Isn't a "race to the bottom" just a natural consequence of a competitive market working properly?

Not at all. Quite the opposite, actually. "Race to the bottom" happens in a product category where the buyer cannot easily determine which value is worth more. Let's say a $1,000 laptop and a $1,100 laptop that has a better battery, longer lasting keyboard and some other advantages that you only figure out after using it for two years. Since the customer can't see a difference, they buy then one for $1,000 even if they would prefer the $1,100 one if they had known the advantages.

I think the tech market is somewhat different to most markets in that a good product today is an obsolete product (still functional, but not desired) in a years time. This means that companies can easily get away with rubbish components as most tech is virtually disposable. In markets with longer product lifespans, it's easier for quality manufacturers to distinguish themselves and get a name for quality, but most people don't care if a laptop from 10 years a

I haven't followed Tizen much previously. As far as I know, it picked up quite a lot from other previous Linux-based mobile OSs. Samsung AFAIK played big role in the push into mobile phones by bringing in the components from Bada (the interface for non-native, managed run-time) and also the Android compatibility layer. (Interesting bit: Nokia provided to Tizen the navigation app and maps.)

My interested in Tizen piqued only recently, when updates for Google Apps started removing functionality and crippling

Samsung were much smaller at the time. They are now pretty much dominant, with a good name, and plenty of marketting muscle.One of the benefits of Tizen is that it does run on both low end devices and high end ones, so they've got plenty of pots to dip their paws into. It's lower maintenance than Android, as there's much more standard upstream packages, less specific to the platform, and it's way-way-way more open than any other platform. (Though not quite as much as I would have liked.) Will it succeed? I'

With Samsung throwing masses of cash at it, it should get a decent enough market share. There'll be a fair few people going into these new Samsung physical stores wanting 'a Samsung phone' and they'll be pushed to these over Android.

Well, this would have been my source:http://www.theguardian.com/info/2014/jan/27/1But they pulled it, as apparently it's not the case any more. Things must have changed several times in the last few years, as I've heard of costs higher than 75c/unit historically.

Presumably they get all the money just from (advertisers who want) users using their services.

There's no general-case connection; but this is Samsung we are talking about here, so it's pretty safe to assume that anything they added will be about as classy as the bloatware on a Best Buy HP-Compaq at the bottom of the price range...

If we are lucky, the BSP side might not be a total failure; but Samsung makes a hell of a mess when they try app development, at least on their android devices.

From my experience working with and for HW-centric companies, they all view SW as a zero-revenue expense. As such, they don't invest in the people, tools and processes that make for successful software products.

I'd tend to think being a top h/w vendor is actually a detriment to delivering good software.

hrm, I wonder...I have noticed on my travels the ubiquity of non-Google Android devices. I wonder if the value of *those* is doubled.

I am, of course, assuming you mean, by 'base Android', the one which is installed on Nexus devices - ie it doesn't have all the manufacturer-added software? If you instead consider 'base Android' to be what is available for free, then perhaps it does indeed add value since it is otherwise quite simple, constituting just a platform.

Being one of the top hardware vendors doesn't magically enable you to write good software.

It might make you code at producing gazillions of ROMs, or flash drives, or DVDs, containing the good software, because that's what hardware is about, but it doesn't make you good at writing good software.

Being one of the top of anything can help you become the top of something else.
Do you know what you need to make good sw?
good programmers.
Do you know what you need to get them?
money.
Does Samsung have money?
Yes.
So, can Samsung be a company with good software, if its CEO wants it?
Yes.
Does the hw business help you make good sw?
Yes.
Do you know how?
OFC, you have your own platform that sells like shit and then you can make the sw and optimize it for you own platform.
Do you know any other company th

true, the best programmers (like CEOs) work more for the joy of working. Those who only come because you throw bucketloads of cash at them tend to be interested in only 1 thing, and that ain't the work you need them doing.

Still, from another post: "Samsung uses EFL as UI framework and has in it's payroll Carsten Haitzler (Rasterman) and Cedric Bail, the main developers of Enlightenment".

That's not just the developers that are the problem. The overall environment need to be adapted for those developers to work: what are the processes, the managers, IT, environments,... I have seen shop where corporate policy prevent a developer to be admin, install software and use another browser than IE7. Others where you have several months of lead time to setup a new database test server, where you cannot run a compiler locally, where only a manager can access the source control system. where bugs can

HP being a good example. Their hardware is generally solid, but every piece of software they're associated with is crap. This includes drivers, most firmware, and pure software (QTP is overpriced and broken, their diameter api crashes as often as it works). I suspect that the process for building good hardware is so different from the process for good software that companies have trouble doing both.

I don't even know why they would. A new OS could be written to run Androids current apps, sure, but further fragmentation of the ecosystem wouldn't help either party and Samsung has the most to lose. They know this.

I'm all for a multiOS mobile culture today. I've owned phones with 4 distinctly different OSs on them and each has their pros and cons. I just don't feel that yet another player, even the size of Samsung, is going to make much headway in the current market. Though I will say Samsung is probably

Hahaha, always a possibility. Though I had thought OpenMoko's lack of success wasn't about it being poorly written, and iirc, that's what you were questioning here.

To clarify, I think Tizen will have an uphill battle:* Android has a massive head start, and is easy to pick up if you know some C.* Macolytes generally won't consider anything other than "their precious".

but, if i had to pick a mobile os based on efficient use of hardware resources, Tizen would be worth a look just from its pedigree.

Sailfish, that is a Tizen cousin, can run android apps in a similar way that does BB10. And if it supports QT will have easier to port native apps from Meego (that have already a good enough core apps package), native BB10 ones, or even Ubuntu Touch.

Actually, I don't think that's always true. The smartphone market is a good example for why. First, you end up with 1000 different Android phones (let's ignore iOS for the moment) that have tiny differences amongst themselves, leading to a choice paradox (you can't decide because there's so many options).

Second, because the market is so crowded with so many so similar products, it's hard for a vendor to really innovate. What we see is rapid evolution, but not innovation - everyone is moving forward at break

Competition is good, but in markets like the US where the mobile space is functionally broken due to the business models of the carriers, you can't enjoy innovation.

How many players are actually in the market?

Shockingly few, mostly those willing to crank out new handsets every 6 months (Samsung, HTC, et. al.) to comply with carrier demands or the single US example of Apple, who can build a single hardware platform and deliver one new handset to carriers per year.

'The form factor, for example, has largely standardized on the iPhone +/- some deviation in size."

That's a bit disingenuous. You have almost every vendor offering tiny 3 inch smartphoned and their range goes all the way up to 5 inches, with 6inch "phablets" filling the gap to tablets.

I don't see any lack of design variety either. Rounded or square, Metal or plastic, thick or thin, and soon curved screens are all taking part. You also have some very risky type of gimmicks, like waterproof phones and a smart

Maybe you should elaborate your argument instead of being so pretentious.The popular GSM phones of the late 90s were candybars with numeric keypads.In case you didn't know, you can still buy these phones, ranging from the most basic to relatively sophisticated feature phones. They don't run Smartphone OSs which require large touchscreens.

Furthermore there have been recent attempts at selling smartphone flip phones and sliders which were popular in the 2000s. The reason you don't see more is because they don

Well, for me seeing an operational open-source OS on a phone would indeed *trigger* my first buying of a Samsung phone.I own an Openmoko, have carefully reviewed the Jolla phone recently (alas: not operational, IMHO) and believe Samsung indeed is capable to succeed here.

That really works only for systems like OpenBSD where the code is truly audited and not just signed off. Linux is developed by a chain of trust, which works well, but outside that does not guarantee that there are not backdoors. So for the best results you want 100% open source and 100% audited code.

Just some weeks ago I was ready to pay a premium to get a Jolla phone (with Sailfish); I went up to registering into Sailfish newsgroups etc.Honestly, and it's sad to say: the OS looks cool but there are just no applications at all. Not even a decent email, not even an ad-filter.

I sincerely hope Jolla succeeds, but I cannot invest now hoping next year the phone will work.In contrast the enormous size of Samsung (an issue of its own) may at least bring a machine that works upon switchon...But I'll definitely

SailfishOS has an Android runtime, so Android apps should run on the device. They also plan to provide images compatible with standard Android hardware, claiming that e.g. in the Chinese market it is common for users to pimp their phones with custom roms. So, I might wait for first reviews on how well the compatibility-layer works, but if it works I wouldn't be concerned about lack of apps.

I see a lot of distrust of the Tizen interface, and even though I'm not a big fan of tiles, Samsung uses EFL as UI framework and has in it's payroll Carsten Haitzler (Rasterman) and Cedric Bail, the main developers of Enlightenment, which I think, grants that the end product will be quite good.

...but only if they can release OS updates for 1-2 years after a phone's release.

My experience with Samsung, (my first 3 android phones were Samsung), is that they tend to ship and forget. They showed no loyalty to me and so I never developed any loyalty to them. I think they got where they are by market saturation rather than any real, inherent superiority of their products.

Wife and I are shopping for a new carrier and new phones. I'm getting another iPhone. I've had one since the 3G and like other Apple products I own, it stays out of my way and lets me get work done.

But she has Samsung devices, Tablet & Phone, but every time we went in to ask questions there was someone in front of us returning a Samsung S4. Well we noticed something. We've gone to 6 different stores and every time we waited the person in front of us was returning a Samsung device, less than 30 days

"Leak" seems to be the new term for "press release." Samsung are just drumming up their marketing machine to promote their next product. Must have learned it from Apple Inc. Perhaps they'll "lose" a prototype somewhere (Starbucks?) so that PR marketers... ahem, "journalists" have an excuse to generate more advertising revenue for their publication(s).

Well, that's a great load of anecdotal shit. I have had an S3 since it came out in Canada in 2012, and it is still working fine (I've moved on to the Nexus 5, but my wife uses the S3 to this day). It has had no problems, and a few months ago I moved it to Cyanogenmod without issue.

The hardware is fine, and it's never had an issue. So while I'm sure this new OS will probably suck, let's try to figure out why it'll suck for actual reasons, rather than the Galaxy line which is actually pretty good. Credit wher

Not entirely anecdotal. When my S3 died it simply turned off and never turned back on. When I searched Google I found lots of other people had the same problem with the S3. Not necessarily everybody... plenty of people love their S3s and have no problem but this particular failure mode happens to the S3 far more than is usual for other models.

Since we are talking about Samsung developing software I must say I don't know if the problem with the S3 is hardware or software related. It sure seems like a har

I had a Samsung Galaxy S1. No actually I still have it, and it still works.My girlfriend had an S2, no actually that one still works too.Both of us have S3s though she had the LTE version.I now have an S4.

Not a single failure and we didn't coddle these phones even in the slightest, the S1 even has a broken screen. Yeah I tried a Motorola phone and I'm very glad I went Samsung. Dare I say I'm a fan?

Up through the S3 my wife had the same phones that I did. She loves her Strat and her S3.

My Strat was great for about 2 days then it sucked. It seemed like I couldn't install much of anything on it or it would slow down to a crawl. I wasn't installing anything sketchy either, almost no games (I think I did have angry birds). Some health related stuff that my wife had too (hers worked well) and some ham radio apps. There was nothing that was likely to be infected plus on my previous phone (a Motorola Droid

It's a weird phenomenon, but it seems that the Japanese don't "get" system software/operating systems AT ALL.

It almost seems to be a cultural thing. They like baroque/quirky interfaces and systems. For video games, that is often a good thing; it makes the game interesting. For applications, it sucks.

You hit nail on the head. For more reference just read about Nintendo Wii/WiiU. They delivered TEN (10) years old development environment for the Wii (straight from GCN days). It only got worse for WiiU.

Heck, even just that screenshot looks better than WP, in that you can clearly have different size/shape tiles, and it doesn't have the stupid Fisher Price color scheme of WP. Add to that, the tile-based home screen will likely be optional, just like their similar launcher screen is on their current Android phones. Likely, they depicted it this way so there would be no question it wasn't yet another Android handset.

The phone design is very similar to Galaxy phones, while the UI reminds us of Windows Phone 8.

Apple will undoubtedly claim to have invented some obscure detail, and insist that the product be banned here in the States. Unless, of course, it's a flop... Apple doesn't design flops.

You are really grasping at straws if you want to start an Apple hate frenzy over this. According to TFA summary it would appear that it's more likely Microsoft's turn to sue Samsung's ass off over copycatting the Windows 8 UI (and that's assuming that Microsoft will even bother).

Even if Samsung did something blatantly actionable (wherever that point lies, 'look and feel' lawsuits seem a bit subjective), it would be interesting to see if Microsoft did anything about it. They certainly aren't shy about lawsuits in general; but they might actually be pleased to see a major Android OEM spitting out some non-Android devices that might help fragment the non-WinPhone market (both by adding another OS to the mix, and by likely encouraging Samsung to cultivate a variety of APIs and services

Who carries a sizable amount of computing power virtually everywhere? And answering a mail, taking note of an idea you just had, or doing a post in some social site may need some sizable amount of text, without building around you a whole desktop just for that or limiting your capacity of expression to write just "ok" in all those situations.

Space constraints. With a touchscreen, your typing sucks; but you recover all the keyboard space for viewing whenever you aren't typing. If you want a hard keyboard, you either chop the bottom third of the screen, or add nontrivial thickness and mechanical complexity for a folding or sliding keyboard.

Damned if I can understand the freak kids who seem to enjoy typing with their thumbs on a featureless pane of glass; but it isn't really hard to see why screens larger than the classic blackberry layout allowed have taken over, given that using tiny screens is also pretty miserable.

First, it requires constant focused attention because there is no tactile feedback.Second, I type too often in various languages (spoken or technical) and have to disable all help and autocorrection, not because they're bad at English, but because they're wasting my time correcting stuff that they can't understand.

Therefore, I will keep using a slide-out keyboard for as long as they are available, because for all-important-me it's massively more efficient.

I used to feel the same way, going so far as basing smartphone purchases entirely on the keyboard (Touch Pro and Touch Pro 2, both of which had best-in-class hardware keyboards. Got those despite the WinMo interface they came with).
The days of lousy on screen keyboards are in the past. I can Swype far faster than I could ever type on a 4" keyboard (with keys that were measured in millimeters). Is my input speed up to the ~100 wpm I can type on my desktop keyboard? No, but I doubt anyone can do that reg

Swype is far better than an onscreen keyboard. I actually forked out for swype since my new phone didn't come with it. Swype is a pile of crap to a proper miniture keyboard. Swype makes replying to emails bearable.

You might tell me, well, that wasn't a very good physical keyboard, and maybe you're right. So what would make a "proper" mini keyboard?

Good question, I don't know exactly. It's something of a "I know it when I see it". If you dig back through old reviews, the Zaurus keyboard gets excellent ratings and generally comes up as the second best mini keyboard ever made. Apparently the first is the Psion 5. I've never used one though.

I don't think it's a no true scotsman kind of deal, since there are measurable di

They're keeping patent law alive. Not content with being sued by Apple, they will now be sued by microsoft - presumably as their 'tiles' are 'too square'.

Samsung has done plenty of suing themselves - not with much success. The worst failure of course in the EU, where Samsung has been threatened with a fine up to 13 billion dollars if they continue to try using Samsung patents in an anti-competitive way.

Never used a Windows phone, but I do have Surface, and I have to say I really like the Metro (aka Modern) UI on a touch device. I refuse to buy a phone without an SD card slot, so iPhone is out of the picture (as are many Android phones), so my next phone may very well be a Windows Phone. I'm not very impressed with Android and the only reason I have Android is because it was the only option at the time that had an SD card slot. The lack of ability to update the phone OS without going through the phone m