Idea: hold sessions at the park where it's only open to a select few who want to participate in a more controlled play session with their dogs. This will limit the idiot with the poodle from coming in, letting his dog piss mine off, then blaming mine when his becomes dinner. It will also make sure I don't lose the opportunity to allow my dog to run and get exercise. I live downtown. No yard. 3' x 20' "dog walk" area for pooping.

I've always thought that being able to rent/lease time at the dog park would be great for some organizations/groups. I used to frequent a dog park that had two sides, little dogs and big dogs (like most dog parks have). The little dog area wouldn't be busy, so then the little dog folks would all come over to the big dog section. The greyhounds that used to be in the big dog section all of the time had to then get muzzled, or removed. They could play with the big dogs, but the little ones were "bunnies". I figured it'd be nice if the greyhound folks could lease some time for just greyhounds to sprint around in a safe, fenced area without having to worry about "bunnies".

I've never seen a dog park that it would work in though...unless you had a locking gate with pass codes, like some do in my area now...and a dog park committee that contacted everyone so they'd know it was only for a certain group at certain times. I'd hate to drive 30 minutes to the dog park to find that I couldn't take my dogs inside. It would take time and patience and dedication...as well as good organizational skills...things that I don't often see with dog parks.

I have seen this happen with private dog parks...but that's a whole 'nother story.

"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw

It would probably be more constructive to get involved with an established training club. Someone is bound to have a yard available.

For most of us, the very best thing we can do is work on teaching our Pits to consciously ignore other dogs and work on handler focus. The best place to do that is in a club with others who have experience teaching the same thing.

Demo Dick

"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge

DemoDick wrote:It would probably be more constructive to get involved with an established training club. Someone is bound to have a yard available.

For most of us, the very best thing we can do is work on teaching our Pits to consciously ignore other dogs and work on handler focus. The best place to do that is in a club with others who have experience teaching the same thing.

Demo Dick

No one else can ever be right, or have a decent idea with you, huh? Like... I make a reasonable suggestion that seems to be in the "right" direction, and you STILL say it's wrong? What's with you man!? You're totally some kind of Type-A Alpha Male dominant person, huh?

It's cool. I'm ignoring you now that I've established that you oppose for the sake of opposition, rather than recognizing a compromise when you see it.

Furthermore, "For most of us, the very best thing we can do is work on teaching our Pits to consciously ignore other dogs and work on handler focus." completely goes against your previous stance of "you can't train instinct out of your dog." Which one is it... training? Or just accepting the genetically predetermined fate? You can't have both!

1. I think your idea is a good one. Scheduling times for specific small groups makes sense. I'm not sure how you'd regulate it unless you can enforce it with "closed sessions" though. Is it a members only park? Who would decide on the groups?

Megumi-Oni wrote:Furthermore, "For most of us, the very best thing we can do is work on teaching our Pits to consciously ignore other dogs and work on handler focus." completely goes against your previous stance of "you can't train instinct out of your dog." Which one is it... training? Or just accepting the genetically predetermined fate? You can't have both!

Yes you can.

Instinct - it's there. Like it or not, it's there.

Riggs wants to kill lots of dogs. That's the way he is. At home he looks for opportunities to grab Connor and a few times he has almost succeeded. However, when we are at training we have worked the boys off leash in very close proximity without problems. Handler focus and "obedience mode" is the difference. Is the instinct still there? Yes, of course. Riggs still wants to start crap with Connor, however, he is also doing as he is told and holding his down and watching me for my next direction. His focus is on me, not Connor.

When he's just hanging out in the house and Demo or I make a handler error, then Riggs' focus is on Connor and, well, then we have another issue.

Training can override instinct, but it doesn't make that instinct go away. It doesn't "fix" the problem, and when the training gets lax the problem returns. If the dog doesn't respect the handler, the problem returns. There are a lot of things that will bring the problem back up to the surface. It's instinct, it's there.

Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.

Megumi-Oni wrote:No one else can ever be right, or have a decent idea with you, huh?

Not when (1) they're wrong and (2) the idea is a bad one.

Like... I make a reasonable suggestion that seems to be in the "right" direction, and you STILL say it's wrong? What's with you man!?

I am against bad ideas and I support good ones.

You're totally some kind of Type-A Alpha Male dominant person, huh?

Yes.

It's cool. I'm ignoring you now that I've established that you oppose for the sake of opposition, rather than recognizing a compromise when you see it.

I offered a reasonable alternative that would serve you well. But you can't see that.

Furthermore, "For most of us, the very best thing we can do is work on teaching our Pits to consciously ignore other dogs and work on handler focus." completely goes against your previous stance of "you can't train instinct out of your dog." Which one is it... training? Or just accepting the genetically predetermined fate? You can't have both!

You are either unwilling or unable to step out of your own oppositional though patterns to learn. You are addicted to internet conflict, project that addiction onto others, and everyone here sees it. With every post, you alienate more people and clearly demonstrate that you are exactly the type of person we need to keep away from this breed, and all dogs in general.

I'm sure you're going to completely misread this post, come up with yet another straw man argument, and go off on a few tangents while projecting your own dysfunctions onto me, or anyone else that rattles your cage. But that's what you really seem to enjoy, so fire away I guess.

Demo Dick

"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge

mnp13 wrote:Training can override instinct, but it doesn't make that instinct go away. It doesn't "fix" the problem, and when the training gets lax the problem returns. If the dog doesn't respect the handler, the problem returns. There are a lot of things that will bring the problem back up to the surface. It's instinct, it's there.

Thank you for asserting the point I tried to make (poorly, I admit) before. It's nice to know my mind was in the right place, but my words didn't translate that effectively.

I think the point I failed to mention that I recognized is that at a park, it isn't always "obedience mode" with every dog. This point I will completely and strongly agree on. The part I got a little miffed about is that it seemed like the consensus was that regardless of obedience mode or not, you can't distract a dog from its instinct. Clearly, by the "bite training" I've looked at, you can. Can you do it 100% of the time you're at a dog park in a larger crowd? No. Absolutely not. And I think that is a point a lot of you missed about me that could have caused you to react the way you did... and I didn't do well to make that point apparent to you initially. So, I'm sorry for leaving that critical detail out.

Megumi-Oni wrote:Thank you for asserting the point I tried to make (poorly, I admit) before. It's nice to know my mind was in the right place, but my words didn't translate that effectively.

I think the point I failed to mention that I recognized is that at a park, it isn't always "obedience mode" with every dog. This point I will completely and strongly agree on. The part I got a little miffed about is that it seemed like the consensus was that regardless of obedience mode or not, you can't distract a dog from its instinct. Clearly, by the "bite training" I've looked at, you can. Can you do it 100% of the time you're at a dog park in a larger crowd? No. Absolutely not. And I think that is a point a lot of you missed about me that could have caused you to react the way you did... and I didn't do well to make that point apparent to you initially. So, I'm sorry for leaving that critical detail out.

Thanks! Good feedback so far!

Explain. In what way is bite training distracting a dog from its instinct? I'm just not really clear on what you are referring to exactly.

Also, "bite training" is not typically a natural instinct for bulldogs. In fact, many bulldogs need to overcome a mental conflict - the one that tells them NOT to bite people. For example, I had to work my dog Dylan through this conflict. Biting a tug was fun to him, biting a pillow was fun too, but at first biting a sleeve on a person just blew his mind. He wasn't sure he was doing the right thing. But, nonetheless we have overcome this. If I wanted a dog with the natural instinct to do bite work you would find me with a Malinois (which I do want).

But I do agree about the whole "obedience mode" thing being able to intervene with a dog's natural instincts to fight another dog. I'll use Dylan for another example here: There is a Mal named Darth at the old club that I trained at. Dylan and Darth HATED each other. They wanted to fight and they behaved like snarky buttholes to one another if they were not in "obedience mode". Nonetheless, the other dog's handler and I could have our dogs lay down next to one another and not have a problem. It's the same reason I can down my dog in the middle of his walk, take his leash, and go collect a neighbor's dog that is running around while it's owner is frantically (and unsuccessfully) trying to catch it. It is called training.

Megumi-Oni wrote:Thank you for asserting the point I tried to make (poorly, I admit) before. It's nice to know my mind was in the right place, but my words didn't translate that effectively.

I think the point I failed to mention that I recognized is that at a park, it isn't always "obedience mode" with every dog. This point I will completely and strongly agree on. The part I got a little miffed about is that it seemed like the consensus was that regardless of obedience mode or not, you can't distract a dog from its instinct. Clearly, by the "bite training" I've looked at, you can. Can you do it 100% of the time you're at a dog park in a larger crowd? No. Absolutely not. And I think that is a point a lot of you missed about me that could have caused you to react the way you did... and I didn't do well to make that point apparent to you initially. So, I'm sorry for leaving that critical detail out.

Thanks! Good feedback so far!

Explain. In what way is bite training distracting a dog from its instinct? I'm just not really clear on what you are referring to exactly.

Also, "bite training" is not typically a natural instinct for bulldogs. In fact, many bulldogs need to overcome a mental conflict - the one that tells them NOT to bite people. For example, I had to work my dog Dylan through this conflict. Biting a tug was fun to him, biting a pillow was fun too, but at first biting a sleeve on a person just blew his mind. He wasn't sure he was doing the right thing. But, nonetheless we have overcome this. If I wanted a dog with the natural instinct to do bite work you would find me with a Malinois (which I do want).

But I do agree about the whole "obedience mode" thing being able to intervene with a dog's natural instincts to fight another dog. I'll use Dylan for another example here: There is a Mal named Darth at the old club that I trained at. Dylan and Darth HATED each other. They wanted to fight and they behaved like snarky buttholes to one another if they were not in "obedience mode". Nonetheless, the other dog's handler and I could have our dogs lay down next to one another and not have a problem. It's the same reason I can down my dog in the middle of his walk, take his leash, and go collect a neighbor's dog that is running around while it's owner is frantically (and unsuccessfully) trying to catch it. It is called training.

The conflicting info is a little dizzying, I'm sorry. You said "In fact, many bulldogs need to overcome a mental conflict - the one that tells them NOT to bite people." but everyone else seems to assert that a pit WILL bite, regardless. I'm really confused... is a pit naturally prone to biting, as previous posts indicated, or does a pit have to be trained to overcome his instinct NOT to bite?

Megumi-Oni wrote:The conflicting info is a little dizzying, I'm sorry. You said "In fact, many bulldogs need to overcome a mental conflict - the one that tells them NOT to bite people." but everyone else seems to assert that a pit WILL bite, regardless. I'm really confused... is a pit naturally prone to biting, as previous posts indicated, or does a pit have to be trained to overcome his instinct NOT to bite?

Thanks!

I'm not sure what previous posts you are indicating...maybe it is because all of your threads are running together?

Also, if you are talking about a Pit Bull being trained to overcome his instinct not to bite other dogs that is totally different from doing any bite work with a decoy. Biting a dog has nothing to do with biting a person, and vice versa.

Megumi-Oni wrote:The conflicting info is a little dizzying, I'm sorry. You said "In fact, many bulldogs need to overcome a mental conflict - the one that tells them NOT to bite people." but everyone else seems to assert that a pit WILL bite, regardless. I'm really confused... is a pit naturally prone to biting, as previous posts indicated, or does a pit have to be trained to overcome his instinct NOT to bite?

Thanks!

I'm not sure what previous posts you are indicating...maybe it is because all of your threads are running together?

Also, if you are talking about a Pit Bull being trained to overcome his instinct not to bite other dogs that is totally different from doing any bite work with a decoy. Biting a dog has nothing to do with biting a person, and vice versa.

Michelle mentioned this in the other thread...but pits were not bred to be people aggressive. In fact, I've heard (and I thought it was on here, but I may be wrong) way back when, when fighting was "acceptable" it was very bad if your dog was human aggressive. As I understand, to keep things "fair" a fighting pit was handed off to it's opponent's owner and that owner washed the dog. So, let's say that michelle and I were going to fight our dogs (okay, yes, I know I don't have a pit)...I would give her my dog to bathe, and she would give me hers...you couldn't do that if the dog was aggressive to people...the point of bathing the other person's dog: to make sure there was no poison, etc, on the dog to give the other person an unfair advantage.

I don't know who wrote this, or how accurate it is, but, at least it wasn't Wikipedia

And regardless of whether I own pits, or not, I will say that you can manage dog aggression. My husband used to own a pit (Rusty) who was straight from fighting lines and he was incredibly dog aggressive...but he could be around other dogs if he was in obedience mode...I have a dog (again, not a pit, but I'm just using him as an example) who is dog aggressive and will kill our other male alpha if given the chance....like Michelle and Demo, my husband and I have had both of these dogs around each other....but it's in obedience mode...

katiek0417 wrote:And regardless of whether I own pits, or not, I will say that you can manage dog aggression.

Yup. I think I'm on my way to doing that w/my two... *sigh*We have our own backyard "dog park", but the boys need to be separated lately... can't imagine taking either one (or both) to a public dog park and letting them loose.

katiek0417 wrote:And regardless of whether I own pits, or not, I will say that you can manage dog aggression.

Yup. I think I'm on my way to doing that w/my two... *sigh*We have our own backyard "dog park", but the boys need to be separated lately... can't imagine taking either one (or both) to a public dog park and letting them loose.

That's the thing...your two boys...well, Faust grew up with Sepp...so if there were any chance of getting along with other dogs, it would be the one they live with...so, then you take the dog to the dog park and there are dogs it doesn't know...well, that, to me, is a recipe for disaster...

...just to clarify, I don't mean they should get along...I just mean that would, IMO, be the best chance...

DemoDick wrote:It would probably be more constructive to get involved with an established training club. Someone is bound to have a yard available.

For most of us, the very best thing we can do is work on teaching our Pits to consciously ignore other dogs and work on handler focus. The best place to do that is in a club with others who have experience teaching the same thing.

Demo Dick

No one else can ever be right, or have a decent idea with you, huh? Like... I make a reasonable suggestion that seems to be in the "right" direction, and you STILL say it's wrong? What's with you man!? You're totally some kind of Type-A Alpha Male dominant person, huh?

It's cool. I'm ignoring you now that I've established that you oppose for the sake of opposition, rather than recognizing a compromise when you see it.

Furthermore, "For most of us, the very best thing we can do is work on teaching our Pits to consciously ignore other dogs and work on handler focus." completely goes against your previous stance of "you can't train instinct out of your dog." Which one is it... training? Or just accepting the genetically predetermined fate? You can't have both!

You REALLY need to pop a valium or two & chill out a bit. Demo doent agree with you, the world will not end because of it. He doesnt agree with me on a lot of things either, who gives a shit. Oh noes!!! I did it again!!!!!

By the way, have you posted pics of your dog yet? i ADORE boxers, whether you believe me or not

There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.

cheekymunkee wrote:You REALLY need to pop a valium or two & chill out a bit. Demo doent agree with you, the world will not end because of it. He doesnt agree with me on a lot of things either, who gives a crap. Oh noes!!! I did it again!!!!!

By the way, have you posted pics of your dog yet? i ADORE boxers, whether you believe me or not

Did she not get the memo that we've moved on to greener pastures, and we're now in Happy land? I mean really... why swat a hornets nest again?

Yes, I have pics. Somewhere buried in here is a link to my facebook album which should be publicly viewable.