M.V. Reddy: Project Uttam LRDE has completed the development part of it and only the aircraft integrationpart is left and that they are working out with ADA and once it is proved and then probably wewill get orders. We are in the fray and it may take some more time for us to get the productionquantity so the discussions are going on with, the DRDO is discussing with users so we are yet tofinalize the quantity and all sort of a thing.

Ketan Gandhi: Sir user trial is completed for Uttam or still under process?

Saurav Jha is the Editor-in-Chief of Delhi Defence Review. Follow him on twitter @SJha1618

The recent withdrawal of the move to import 114 ‘single-engine fighters’ (SEF) by India’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) opens a window of opportunity for the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), controlled by the Defence Research & Development Organization (DRDO), to rekindle its effort to develop a MK-II variant of the Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA). Because, even though reports suggest that MoD is planning to replace the SEF competition with a larger competition that will see both single and twin- engined jet fighters in contention (in a manner reminiscent of the failed multi-role medium range combat aircraft (MMRCA) tender from a decade ago), the most realistic way to augment the Indian Air force’s (IAF’s) combat strength continues to be the building of more Tejas variants, as we have argued before. As such, it is now time for DRDO to use its internal allocations to fund the further development of the Tejas MK-II, with full support from MoD, in order to be future ready given that fighter import tenders take a lot of time in India and may never actually reach fruition, judging by recent experience.

The MK-II design must return

ADA, has long proposed a Tejas MK-II with a more powerful engine than the baseline MK-I, as well as aerodynamic refinements, to address the IAF’s 1995 air staff qualitative requirements (ASQR) with respect to kinematic performance. After all, one of the regrets of the IAF has been the fact that the MK-I design does not meet the ASQR in terms of sustained turn rate (STR), transonic acceleration and climb rate. The developers of the Tejas, i.e. ADA, however believe that the MK-II design, which will also incorporate a pair of canards, will be able to address MK-I’s shortfalls in terms of aerodynamic performance. The 1995 ASQR apparently requires a STR of 18 degrees (same as the F-16’s) and Mk-II will close in on that. The climb rate will also be more or less satisfactorily reached. Transonic acceleration is expected to be realized fully. Moreover the Mk-II airframe will be able to reach a top speed of Mach 1.8 at altitude.

Development work on MK-II had been progressed by ADA over the years as part of the overall allocations for the LCA programme. Currently, ADA’s work on the Tejas is being financed via the LCA Phase-III project which was sanctioned in November 2009 with an allocation of Rs 2431.55 crores and is scheduled to be complete by December 2018. Most of this allocation has gone towards developmental activities related to achieving operational clearances for the MK-I design as well general development work on the Tejas design family (Air force version). However, while funds from this allocation have helped advance the Tejas MK-II design to a level where the ‘inboard’ i.e the complete layout for Mk-II is ready and plenty of wind tunnel work into adding a pair of canards has also been done, it is not enough for ADA to develop a pair of MK-II prototypes. For that, fresh allocations are required.

Now while the SEF proposal was in vogue, there was this general belief in the fighter development community in India that there was perhaps no point in pursuing the Mk-II variant, since it was unlikely to receive orders given that the IAF seemed to be keen on importing a fighter in the same class instead. However, with the SEF proposal going nowhere and its successor unlikely to yield early returns either, the time is ripe for DRDO to fund ADA on its own to develop a pair of MK-II prototypes. The finance wing of India’s MoD must greenlight such an effort along with the total support of the Defence Minister. Development work on the MK-II has progressed sufficiently for ADA to achieve first flight with a prototype within 2-3 years of funds being allocated.

ADA’s confidence with respect to this timeline also stems from the fact that modifications to the 98 kilo newton generating F414-GE-INS6 (F414), in order for it to fit the MK-II design, have already been certified by the Center for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC). What is more, eight of the 99 F414 engines ordered by ADA earlier have already been delivered to it by GE. Clearly, ADA now has some engines waiting for an airframe, i.e MK-II. The F414-GE-INS6 is course more powerful than the F-404-GE-IN20 engine that currently powers MK-I.

Moreover, the Mk-II design has some 25-30 percent commonality in parts with MK-I and these parts (i.e not requiring any modification) are already in production. For the MK-I parts that have to be replaced, thousands of new drawings have being worked upon jointly by DRDO- Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) along with the private sector and these are now ready. Clearly, the stage is set for the early creation of two prototypes that will probably cost some Rs 3000-4000 crores and can be funded by DRDO directly. Once the efficacy of this effort is demonstrated to the ‘user’ i.e the IAF, they can fund the rest of the development effort all the way to certification which is expected to take 2 years from first flight. If sanctioned early this year, Tejas MK-II could be easily be in production by the time HAL finishes producing the last of the 83 Tejas MK-1A for which it recently received a request for proposal from the IAF. The IAF is of course fully aware of the nature of Tejas MK-II given that it has positioned 23 officers to support the overall Tejas program and according to sources ADA has had several discussions with the IAF about it.Not just more agile

While the Mk-II design is expected to achieve a 5 percent improvement in drag characteristics through ‘production improvements’ related to further streamlining (reduced contour variations etc) of the Mk-I airframe, it is actually a step up from the baseline MK-1 and even the improved MK-1A in other ways as well.

With only 25-30 percent parts commonality with Mk-I or Mk-IA, MK-II will have many modernized line replace units (LRUs) which will serve the purpose of both obsolescence management and improved maintainability. MK-II will also have a higher maximum take-off weight reflected in the carriage of more on-board fuel thereby increasing endurance. (endurance will also be helped by its better aerodynamics).MK-II will have a new indigenous flight control computer and will see refinements in the control law for the LCA design as well.The glass cockpit for the Mk-II is going to be new as well. For one it is going to feature bigger 8 x 12 inch displays rather than the 5 x 5 and 6 x 6 inch displays currently featured in the MK-I cockpit. A prototype of the Mk-II cockpit already exists. The MK-II displays are likely to be supplied by India’s Samtel.

While HAL is looking to outfit MK-1A with an imported active electronically scanned array (AESA) and a foreign self-protection jammer, MK-II should fly with the indigenous Uttam AESA being developed by DRDO’s Electronics and Radar Development Establishment (LRDE) and the ‘unified electronic warfare suite’ (UEWS) created by the Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE), another DRDO lab, in partnership with Israel’s Elisra. Uttam, which weighs 120 kg, has been put through extensive ground evaluation by LRDE and is reportedly ready for integration onto a Tejas test vehicle. UEWS is currently undergoing tests on the Tejas PV-6 prototype vehicle.

A modular ‘Make in India’

Not only is MK-II supposed to be a superior product in terms of performance, it will also lend itself to being produced quicker, as is the need of the day. ADA has done of a lot of work together with HCL with the objective of making the Mk-II design ‘modular’. In this modular scheme of things, HAL as the integrator will receive 8-10 Tejas MK-II ‘modules’ as sub-assemblies from domestic private companies such as L&T and will then put them together to build a complete aircraft ready for checkout and flight testing. Each of these module suppliers will therefore be ‘Tier-I’ suppliers to HAL and will receive LRUs from Tier-II suppliers (w.r.t to HAL) for integration into the modules, which will then be dispatched to HAL. According to Dr K.Tamilmani, former Director General Aeronautics, DRDO, ‘The idea is to ‘terminate’ things like electrical looms, hydraulic pipes, fuel line pipes etc. at the module level which can then be connected with other such modules.’

Of course, for the Tejas Mk-II program to be an all-round success in the industrial sense, the time has come for India to get GE to produce the complete F-414 engine on Indian soil in association with a domestic partner. In this light, the setting up of a joint venture between GE and Tata Advanced Systems Limited (TASL) in Adibatla for the manufacture of various components of GE engines looks like a timely development. This JV which will see the setting up of tooling that can produce F-414 parts, can be encouraged by the Indian Government to take on the production of the entire F-414 engine under manufacturing know how transfer from GE.

The F-414 can actually be retro-fitted onto the Mk-I/IA airframes also since the existing intake of these aircraft can can easily handle the additional mass flow from the F-414 as compared to the F-404. Of course, other modifications to the Mk-I/IA airframe will be required for this purpose. In the course of its lifetime any single engined jet fighter needs about 3.5 jet engines. So a hypothetical run of at least 200 Tejas MK-II in addition to the 123 Mk-1/1A (modified to field the F-414) that are on order will mean that the IAF’s future fleet will require north of 1100 F-414 engines in the course of their service life. Clearly, GE should not have any compunctions in transferring know how for even the F-414 core for an order of that size. Perhaps, the India-US ‘joint working group on jet engine technology’ should burn some midnight oil to explore this potential.

Aditya_V wrote:But seriously, MK-2 has been talked about since 2008, and we dont have funds sanctioned for TD's yet?

Mk2 was an enigma until very recently (late 2017). A lot happened since 2008 ---> Episode I - MMRCA (launched in 2007 and lumbered on till Sept 2016), then Episode 2 - SEF (launched in 2017 and ended in Feb 2018) and now Episode III (restart of MMRCA contest). In the middle of all that, how can one expect Mk2 to survive? See below...

How long did it take the geniuses in the MOD to figure that out. Why is action not being taken against those responsible for delays in indigenous procurement. The simple reason is that everyone has a finger in the import pie.

Indian bureaucracy can kill any project. I remember George Fernandes saying that arms dealers were too deeply entrenched. When the defense minister of a country says that, you can imagine how serious the problem is. AK Anthony only had ideas about indigenisation but did not have the gumption to make things happen. The present govt has laid a big bet on make in India but in a totally wrong context. Playing musical chairs with regards to defense ministers in an important ministry like defense hasn't helped. The MOD needs to be restructured. Get rid of the bureaucrats and get in technocrats. Get a small team in with a dedicated focus on procurement. Whichever party is in opposition will always try and make a noise , shouting "scam",its nothing new. Every party when in opposition does it. But whichever party is in govt needs to have the guts to take tough decisions to meet the requirements of the country.

Also, the MK 2? Is it still a project anymore? No one, including the IAF, ADA or the govt has talked about it in years.

The answers lie in the (1) maturity & capability of our systems matching our (2) policies and standards. It is going to be a struggle till we get there. A couple of operational squadrons of LCA (any version) will make a huge systemic change towards enforcing the 2.

back to the question (posted in Mk1 dhaaga), any pics of Canards config on Mk2?And, there was an article that talked about retractable refueling probe. Any info on this?

After much dithering the government has finally taken a decision to shelve the $10-billion project on procuring only single-engine fighter from foreign vendors even as it plans to push for Tejas Light Combat Aircraft Mark-2 for the Indian Air Force, which is in dire need of modern fighter jets. In 2016, the plan to procure imported single-engine warplane got a major push when the Air Force had sent letters to foreign vendors seeking their interest in building a single-engine fighter aircraft in India in collaboration with an Indian player. Finally, the choices narrowed down to US aerospace giant Lockheed Martin’s F-16 Block 70 and Swedish Gripen E manufactured by SAAB.

Both these companies also came out with exhaustive plans under ‘Make in India’ with the promise to set up production units here and eventually transforming India into a global export hub. While Lockheed Martin joined hands to Tata Advanced Systems Ltd (TASL), SAAB announced its partnership with Adani Group for the programme. However, it seems that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has now decided that it will not specify the number of engines - inviting unnecessary controversy - by restricting itself to number of engines and only in between a couple of players, sources told Business Line. Keeping in mind the requirement of the Indian Air Force (IAF), the government has decided to push for the home-grown Tejas Mark 2, which is much cheaper than F-16 Block 70 or Gripen E, given the paucity of financial resources even as the government continues to face political heat over procuring 36 French Rafale jets off-the-shelf.

Procurement Plan

Apart from this, scrapping the single-engine project will also serve the government’s twin objectives of reducing it reliance on imports thereby strengthening the domestic defence industry and keeping the order books of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) steady, sources said. The plan is to procure at least 120-150 Tejas LCA Mark 2 for the Air Force, according to sources.

Interestingly, the Indian Air Force, which is in dire need of at least 200 fighter planes, rejected the domestically built Tejas last year. In a detailed presentation to the government, the IAF made a case of procuring the jets only from global vendors. However, Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman, along with National Security Adviser Ajit Doval, have decided that either the IAF places an order for Tejas Mark 2 or open up the competition to all, much on the lines of the Medium Multi-role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) deal that was floated by the previous UPA government in 2010 in a bid to buy 126 jets. Finally it was Rafale and Eurofighter that were shortlisted. When contacted the Indian Air Force declined to comment.

Besides, with the roll-out of the ‘Strategic Partnership’ policy the process of procurement has undergone a major change. Unless the policy is fully implemented no big-ticket programme can take off. Moreover, the negotiations also hit a deadlock over the issue of transfer of technology. “We need to have an India-made plane where the design is ours, the intelligence inside the aeroplane is ours while we can source some of the components globally. But importing a whole plane is regressive. We just cannot end up strengthening the foreign aerospace industry while looking down on your own,” said Bharat Karnad, Research Professor in National Security Studies, Centre for Policy Research.

If I were the Govt who sincerely want to push domestic MIC, I would ask ADA to take part in MMRCA 2. Take 3-4yrs to get to trial stage meanwhile fully supporting ADA to get a prototype flying and then selecting MK2 as MMRCA eventually. It shouldnt be that difficult if everyone agrees that all the power lies with MoD only. Its no brainer to tweak tender to suit for MK2 and no political party would oppose selection of MK2 later. If IAF is happy with Gripen E, they will be more than happy with MK2. But of coarse I do not see GOI driving it the way they are driving prohects in other fields. Of coarse there are lobbies and babus and perhaps a ha dful corrupt AF officers trying to derail the whole thing, but if Modi himself puts his weight behind such initiative these things can be dealt with I feel.

JayS wrote:If I were the Govt who sincerely want to push domestic MIC, I would ask ADA to take part in MMRCA 2. Take 3-4yrs to get to trial stage meanwhile fully supporting ADA to get a prototype flying and then selecting MK2 as MMRCA eventually. It shouldnt be that difficult if everyone agrees that all the power lies with MoD only. Its no brainer to tweak tender to suit for MK2 and no political party would oppose selection of MK2 later. If IAF is happy with Gripen E, they will be more than happy with MK2. But of coarse I do not see GOI driving it the way they are driving prohects in other fields. Of coarse there are lobbies and babus and perhaps a ha dful corrupt AF officers trying to derail the whole thing, but if Modi himself puts his weight behind such initiative these things can be dealt with I feel.

And would you believe that the IAF would offer a fair and impartial evaluation of an indigenous program when they could instead go in for a fighter of a bigger class with more range and payload from abroad? They would raise similar arguments to the kind that we had seen earlier that compared the F-16 with the LCA Mk1 and said that the F-16 had longer range, more payload and greater endurance. Of course! because the IAF asked the Tejas to be built as a MiG-21 replacement, not a F-16 analogue!

Rakesh wrote:Under the procurement plan sub-heading, it appears that HAL may have knifed the SEF contract They realized that if this deal went through, they were going to get no orders and thus they killed it.

Also by opening the competition to all, our Defence Minister appears to have played a chanakya move

Pray tell what heft HAL carries to knife MOD initiated SEF? Imho that is like my pushcart sabziwall preventing lady of the house from going to grocery shop.

i feel like going to HAL-Tejas gate and bursting a 10000 waala and then distribute sweets there and put a flex poster nearby. Heck when people can do this for 2-bit councillor birthday why not for such a momentous event. "buland bharat ki buland tasveer hamara tejas hamara tejas"

JayS wrote:If I were the Govt who sincerely want to push domestic MIC, I would ask ADA to take part in MMRCA 2. Take 3-4yrs to get to trial stage meanwhile fully supporting ADA to get a prototype flying and then selecting MK2 as MMRCA eventually. It shouldnt be that difficult if everyone agrees that all the power lies with MoD only. Its no brainer to tweak tender to suit for MK2 and no political party would oppose selection of MK2 later. If IAF is happy with Gripen E, they will be more than happy with MK2. But of coarse I do not see GOI driving it the way they are driving prohects in other fields. Of coarse there are lobbies and babus and perhaps a ha dful corrupt AF officers trying to derail the whole thing, but if Modi himself puts his weight behind such initiative these things can be dealt with I feel.

And would you believe that the IAF would offer a fair and impartial evaluation of an indigenous program when they could instead go in for a fighter of a bigger class with more range and payload from abroad? They would raise similar arguments to the kind that we had seen earlier that compared the F-16 with the LCA Mk1 and said that the F-16 had longer range, more payload and greater endurance. Of course! because the IAF asked the Tejas to be built as a MiG-21 replacement, not a F-16 analogue!

I would like to believe that. And as Dejay and Akshay Sir has pointed out many, IAF has no real power. All power rests with MoD. Some crooked elements within IAF might try hard to stop Tejas, but I don't think they can stop a fully commited GOI.

Seriously speaking, a hell bent government can arm twist all those are unwilling to co-operate. This government hasn't really shown the intent to use its weight, at least on Defense front. That's why we needed a political heavy weight in MoD. Sometimes I feel Modi should have kept MoD with himself. With all the brouhaha on MII, I don't see the GOI itself is convinced that 'Made in India' is real solution. They themselves still are torn between 'Make In India' screwdrivergiri and true 'Made in India' product.

Since the topic of who has "power" to make decisions keep coming up in a circular fashion, can someone put together a list of who is responsible for what exactly? We have services (IAF/IN/IA et al), GoI (MoD, MoF et al), R&D labs (DRDO et al), Production public/private (HAL et al), various committees and other internal/external agents. Everyone needs to see the whole picture of who decides what exactly.

Both engine development programs - Kaveri88 and Kaveri200 - are kept tightly under wraps. Nothing is announced until something concrete has been achieved. Too many hands in the pot will ruin it. Let folks speculate, let us do our job quietly and at the end of the day....show us a finished product. That is what Safran and RR are doing.

It is too fail-open a topic if you want to keep power of any operation or decisions or function with one entity.

Roles and responsibility driven power distribution provides a joint ownership. People have power to elect and select. Fin min the power on funds, IAF on specs and needs. MoD on strategic initiatives and planning, approvals as a process - like an architect.. not to be thought of as roadblocks between each institutions.

There is a strong reason / trade offs, objectives and goals from PMO too.

If it makes sense that Mk2 satisfies SEF needs, who would not want it? An external power is quite possible especially with a setup where corruption is easy and undocumented or burned down.

Wiki says 657 Mig 21s were built in India. I dont know exact numbers in operation now but it has significant history with IAF specifically for all of us on the kills against Pakis.

LCA taking over that history with a new history to be made is something everyone will be caught up too. And of course our enemies would love LCA not to take up as Mig replacement/ displacement. And there is this love towards firang maals too.

SEF, imho is LCA landscape. We now have to see who or which power wants to unsettle this market. Some names never get mentioned over security reasons... so let's keep it that way.

After much dithering the government has finally taken a decision to shelve the $10-billion project on procuring only single-engine fighter from foreign vendors even as it plans to push for Tejas Light Combat Aircraft Mark-2 for the Indian Air Force, .............

....... Keeping in mind the requirement of the Indian Air Force (IAF), the government has decided to push for the home-grown Tejas Mark 2, which is much cheaper than F-16 Block 70 or Gripen E, given the paucity of financial resources even as the government continues to face political heat over procuring 36 French Rafale jets off-the-shelf.

.................“We need to have an India-made plane where the design is ours, the intelligence inside the aeroplane is ours while we can source some of the components globally.But importing a whole plane is regressive. We just cannot end up strengthening the foreign aerospace industry while looking down on your own,” said Bharat Karnad, Research Professor in National Security Studies, Centre for Policy Research.

Where is the Lungi dance icon when you need it. As Mogambo would say - "Mogambo khush hua". Glad to see a NSA and RM with balls!! Could not have said it better.

Of course once a FINAL decision is made, the onus will be on HAL to produce and deliver - AHEAD OF TIME. Perhaps privatization of HAL should be considered with additional support (and orders of SARAS etc) to Taneja Aerospace. Wasn't Mahindra also producing a light sport aircraft?

SaiK wrote:Wiki says 657 Mig 21s were built in India. I dont know exact numbers in operation now but it has significant history with IAF specifically for all of us on the kills against Pakis.

LCA taking over that history with a new history to be made is something everyone will be caught up too. And of course our enemies would love LCA not to take up as Mig replacement/ displacement. And there is this love towards firang maals too.

SEF, imho is LCA landscape. We now have to see who or which power wants to unsettle this market. Some names never get mentioned over security reasons... so let's keep it that way.

A real number will probably never be available. It was probably higher than 657 - also purchases of units manufactured in Roos would boost that number. An ultimate LCA force of 400 aircraft in a 1000+ IAF would be great.