Sheila_McSly:Ok, this is going to sound crazy, but why do we care what poor people spend the money on anyway? Whether they spend it on cornflakes, TP or school supplies it still goes back into the economy.

Because if they have money for an xbox then they really don't need the money.

I'd like it if the data was released to the public. However, I'm guessing that instead of having a discussion at how to reduce the potential fraud, it will just be used as evidence to defund the program.

vpb:Well, we already know that it's at the places that sell fillet minion and lobster.

They're welcome to spend their food stamps on lobster. Then they go hungry for the last 10 days of the month.That habit gets squashed pretty quick.

DrewCurtisJr:Sheila_McSly: Ok, this is going to sound crazy, but why do we care what poor people spend the money on anyway? Whether they spend it on cornflakes, TP or school supplies it still goes back into the economy.

Because if they have money for an xbox then they really don't need the money.

You mean the $25 XBox they bought at a flea market? Yeah, they're rolling in dough.

Sheila_McSly:Ok, this is going to sound crazy, but why do we care what poor people spend the money on anyway? Whether they spend it on cornflakes, TP or school supplies it still goes back into the economy. Let's bring food stamps, WIC, welfare and unemployment into one benefit program and just send people the money. You could probably slash administrative costs & stimulate the economy at the same time. And you wouldn't have a bunch of busybodies trying to manipulate the free market by inspecting poor people's grocery receipts.

/deregulate welfare

It's so funny how the party of self-reliance & keeping the government out of our lives is so intent on judging the lives of others.

And by funny, of course, I mean hugely hypocritical. We've got much bigger fish to fry.

DrewCurtisJr:Does it hurt to have other entities also investigate the problem?

I don't know, define "hurt". It costs money, time, and resources. How about we use those resources to investigate the $100 billion we lose in defense industry fraud every year. A lot more potential to save the government money.

Dusk-You-n-Me:So the government does actively seek out fraudsters and take action. It follows that more funding would catch more fraud, though I doubt there's any political will for that. Also important to note that 40% of SNAP recipients live in a household with earnings. Meaning they work, but still require assistance. Historically low wages will do that.

And of course presumably some fraction of the "fraud" is people trading in feeding their families properly to get money to pay the rent that month, or to have enough gas to get to work that week, which while not the what the program is for, is hardly a serious issue to spend massive amounts of resources to stamp out.

Dusk-You-n-Me:So the government does actively seek out fraudsters and take action. It follows that more funding would catch more fraud, though I doubt there's any political will for that. Also important to note that 40% of SNAP recipients live in a household with earnings. Meaning they work, but still require assistance. Historically low wages will do that.

But at what point to you go from catching more Medicare fraud through false claims to catching welfare recipients on drugs or voter fraud with voter IDs? I'm all for finding and mitigating fraud, but there's a point where your do more harm than good.

xria:And of course presumably some fraction of the "fraud" is people trading in feeding their families properly to get money to pay the rent that month, or to have enough gas to get to work that week, which while not the what the program is for, is hardly a serious issue to spend massive amounts of resources to stamp out.

Yep. Or trading stamps for cash, usually at 75-95 cents on the dollar, to pay for items like diapers, which aren't covered under SNAP. Clearly these people are the cause of all our problems.

Dusk-You-n-Me:I don't know, define "hurt". It costs money, time, and resources. How about we use those resources to investigate the $100 billion we lose in defense industry fraud every year. A lot more potential to save the government money.

Because a particular entity may feel they are in a better position to investigate fraud in this area.

Summoner101:But at what point to you go from catching more Medicare fraud through false claims to catching welfare recipients on drugs or voter fraud with voter IDs? I'm all for finding and mitigating fraud, but there's a point where your do more harm than good.

Absolutely there is. I think a 1% fraud rate is pretty good for such a large program. Of course the goal is 0%, but that's just not feasible.

Many of the same people who are obsessed with the statistical noise that is voter fraud also like to proclaim there is nothing that can be done to address the statistical national embarrassment that is gun violence. Imagine that.

eraser8:rzrwiresunrise: vpb: Well, we already know that it's at the places that sell fillet minion and lobster.

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None of those can accept food stamps.

You knew that, right?

How will we know if they're not accepting if we don't get access to all the DATA??!? HUUUHHH??!? Them poor folk er thieves n liars dintcha know?? Ain't no way fer them folk to be comin outta them places fat like a hog on his birthday less'n they had the means teh pay fer it!!!!

Psst, and Obummer's jus' th' one teh help em OUT!!

Whut about them FONES!!!! They get them free fones don't they??!? Whut if they're usin them stamps teh buy them fones and then tradin em fer CASH???!?!???

rzrwiresunrise:eraser8: rzrwiresunrise: vpb: Well, we already know that it's at the places that sell fillet minion and lobster.

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None of those can accept food stamps.

You knew that, right?

How will we know if they're not accepting if we don't get access to all the DATA??!? HUUUHHH??!? Them poor folk er thieves n liars dintcha know?? Ain't no way fer them folk to be comin outta them places fat like a hog on his birthday less'n they had the means teh pay fer it!!!!

Psst, and Obummer's jus' th' one teh help em OUT!!

Whut about them FONES!!!! They get them free fones don't they??!? Whut if they're usin them stamps teh buy them fones and then tradin em fer CASH???!?!???

My guess is that people on food stamps spend a lot of them in corner markets which horrors of horrors also sell alcohol and cigarettes, never mind that grocery stores do that as well and that they can't buy that with food stamps. Now people on food stamps do this solely because they lack quick transportation to better and cheaper markets since the major chains just don't put a grocery in poor neighborhoods. The locations tell you what, that poor people are screwed or that some make poor choices because they could take a bus that may run when they are working or a long walk when they are on their second job to a cheaper store? I don't doubt that, and have watch as, some food stamp recipients spend their money in a less that optimal way, but the program is aimed at feeding children and the supposed "lobster buys" have all been shown to be fraud by someone other than the recipient who has been caught and prosecuted. Compared to the billions we spend on business welfare I am unimpressed by the whining over a program that feeds children and their mothers.

DrewCurtisJr:Sheila_McSly: Ok, this is going to sound crazy, but why do we care what poor people spend the money on anyway? Whether they spend it on cornflakes, TP or school supplies it still goes back into the economy.

Because if they have money for an xbox then they really don't need the money.

And we already have fraud agencies that identify those who really don't need the money, and they are better at finding it out than most previous administrations.

I think we should do this with everyone who gets paid by the taxpayers.it's our money right? we should be able to decide what they can and can't buy with itmaybe I don't want some congressman's whore daughter buying birth controlwe need to know this stuff people.

interstellar_tedium:I don't doubt that, and have watch as, some food stamp recipients spend their money in a less that optimal way, but the program is aimed at feeding children and the supposed "lobster buys" have all been shown to be fraud by someone other than the recipient who has been caught and prosecuted.

How do you know about every single lobster purchased with ebt benefits as in most cases it actually isn't fraud to buy lobster with food stamps?

eraser8:rzrwiresunrise: eraser8: rzrwiresunrise: vpb: Well, we already know that it's at the places that sell fillet minion and lobster.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 400x300]

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 640x480]

[www.venturaweekly.com image 490x267]

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None of those can accept food stamps.

You knew that, right?

How will we know if they're not accepting if we don't get access to all the DATA??!? HUUUHHH??!? Them poor folk er thieves n liars dintcha know?? Ain't no way fer them folk to be comin outta them places fat like a hog on his birthday less'n they had the means teh pay fer it!!!!

Psst, and Obummer's jus' th' one teh help em OUT!!

Whut about them FONES!!!! They get them free fones don't they??!? Whut if they're usin them stamps teh buy them fones and then tradin em fer CASH???!?!???

Think about it.

Okay. Poe's Law confirmed.

Also, super interesting/relevant book for issues like this? Angry White Men: American Masculinity at the End of an Era

Well, to be perfectly honest, the book isn't SUPER interesting/relevant...but, it IS moderately interesting/relevant. So, still worth the read.

Voiceofreason01:Generation_D: You know grocery stores and what not probably already know, to great detail.

and watch, most of it'll be on food.

this. I really don't think there's a good reason that kind of info should not be disclosed but at the same time I suspect that a lot of the people interested in getting the info just want to turn it into an excuse for further cuts to SNAP.

Democrats are concerned about bad things happening to people who don't deserve it.

Republicans are concerned about good things happening to people who don't deserve it.

Hobodeluxe:Robin Hoodie: Hobodeluxe: so they just want to know which stores are most of them shopping at?

I'm guessing the big ones are going to be Wal Mart,Kroger, Safeway,Publix,Bi-Lo,Target etc,

what are they really thinking they will find?

why was the administration trying to hide this info? Dept of Ag attorneys must be bored. waste of time/effort

maybe they don't want to waste the money tracking this stuff and then making it available to the GOP so they can prowl through people's garbage to make sure they aren't eating pizza instead of ramen?

they already track it and audit it, and since this is a fairly enormous government agency, they're probably already subject to lots of FOIA requests. This just sounds like the DoA leadership and attorneys trying to stretch the law for no particular purpose. Just let the stupid South Dakota newspaper have the info they requested and move on

Voiceofreason01:Generation_D: You know grocery stores and what not probably already know, to great detail.

and watch, most of it'll be on food.

this. I really don't think there's a good reason that kind of info should not be disclosed but at the same time I suspect that a lot of the people interested in getting the info just want to turn it into an excuse for further cuts to SNAP.

I think the Democrats could win huge at the polls with one commercial series, entitled "My Mistake". Find a Republican who says "We shouldn't punish the rich for the poor's mistakes" (I know you'll be able to find someone who's said this or approximately this), then bring on those who've been in car accidents that have left them quadriplegics, cancer patients, those who've been laid off from high-profile jobs where the CEOs took golden parachutes, and others whose financial woes were no fault of their own, and have them keep repeating how "they made the mistake of" something that they didn't have any control over. At the end, the voiceover: "These are the people Republicans think deserve to starve because of their "mistakes". Who's punishing who?"