On 22/05/2014 Climboholic wrote:>On 22/05/2014 Snacks wrote:>>On 22/05/2014 Climboholic wrote:>>>On 21/05/2014 kieranl wrote:>>>>It's illegal to leave a camp-fire unattended, whether it's in a proper>>>>fireplace or not. >>>>>>Show me a link to this law and I'll stop leaving fires unattended like>>>I have without incident on a weekly basis for the last 30 years.>>>>National Parks and Wildlife Regulation 2002 Section 14>> >>Lighting a fire in a national park other than in a fireplace, when a>total>>fire ban is in place; leaving a fire unattended,;>>failing to report or extinguish a fire; handle any flammable substance>>in a way likely to cause a fire >>>>30 penalty units>>>>http://www.aic.gov.au/crime_types/property%20crime/arson/arson%20legislation/summary.htm>>>>>>That's NSW not VIC, but thanks for the link. As I vaguely recalled, there>is no Victorian law against leaving a fire unattended unless it's during>a fire danger period. >>Country Fire Authority Act 1958 39 Prohibited actions near fires >During a fire danger period: leaving a burning fire without leaving>another in charge or extinguishing it; being in the open air and throwing>down or dropping a lighted cigarette, match or other burning material;>undertaking certain other fire hazardous acts; failing to report a burning>fire >>Forests Act 1958 63 Restrictions as to lighting etc. fires in certain>areas >Lighting - intentionally or negligently and where authority should have>been obtained - or maintaining a fire in the open air in a state forest>or national park; failing to prevent the spread of a fire; leaving a fire>without taking reasonable precautions to prevent it spreading or>causing injury.>>You could argue that having the fire in a fireplace and clearing leaf>litter around it are reasonable precautions. Again, it depends on the conditions.>>I don't doubt that it's very dry down there and having fires probably>isn't a good idea. I'm sure Fiona thought she was doing the right thing>and from the description of the conditions she's probably right.

I gave the NSW reference as I'm fairly sure it is as it stated in that link. But, the new Emergency Services legislation for Victoria (which may have come into effect by now?) will supercede or amend various parts of those 1950s Acts...

On 22/05/2014 harold wrote:>Could a fire really spread in sub 10 degrees temps? Even with dry wood I find fires need a fair bit of encouragement on a cold night like that.

Hmm.
This is not intended to be a thread hijack, ok?

Just sayin...

Here is a photo of the 'best' day weather-wise, of ratman's bike at an Alpine Rally at Brindabella that I attended once...

I post it to indicate the frost on green grass (11 am), and minimal leaf litter around...
Earlier the trees were covered in frost to the tops of 15m gums etc.

What amazed me most about that particular Rally, was the fact that someone inadvertantly managed to set fire to the hillside on the opposite side of the creek (background) on the night before, and it took about half a dozen blokes to put it out.
The temperature at the time was in the negative 4 or 5 range!!!

Yes. I have had my fair share of recalcitrant fire-lighting episodes with 'damp' wood, etc; ... but if you asked me before this event if it (the unwanted hillside fire), could have happened, I would have said no.
As a result of that experience, these days I am more open minded!

I was with Fiona and I was in a long sleeved t-shirt when we poured water over this fire. I don't really know the exact time it was and I didn't have a thermometer, but it wasn't 7.7 degrees when the fire was left unattended. I would expect that temperature itself (in the ranges we're talking about here) has less bearing on how a fire spreads anyway - relative humidity is probably more of a factor.

All that aside, are people seriously arguing that an unattended campfire in the gums is OK? Fire wood collection is not allowed in the park, there are no 'constructed' campfire pits in the gums and there is a sign saying no fires. Legal or not, fires shouldn't be left unattended because they can and do get away - I'm sure you wouldn't get any argument from the CFA or DEPI over that statement - in fact it's written on the DEPI website.

Would this fire have gone anywhere? probably not - it wasn't huge, but the fact that a bunch of people arrived after dark and started to break trees, dig a firepit and then disappear to another campsite without putting out their fire, shows that they really didn't care about the legalities and (as evidenced) more than likely didn't put much thought into technicalities such as ambient temperature and fire pit construction.

So we did the right thing and dumped some water on it, and Fiona posted about it to remind people that it's not cool to leave unattended fires in Australia 'cause our bush likes to burn.

On 22/05/2014 stingray4100 wrote:>So we did the right thing and dumped some water on it, and Fiona posted>about it to remind people that it's not cool to leave unattended fires>in Australia 'cause our bush likes to burn.

Exactly the wrong hting to do for our fire loving native species.
How are the grass-boys going to propagate if you take away that mechanism?
What about the native grasses?
What about the hakeas?
Think too of the banksias, I implore you!

On 22/05/2014 harold wrote:>Sorry about the hijack. That's very impressive M9, are you sure there>wasn't a liberal amount of petrol involved :) >
No petrol. It was genuinely unintentional.
~> which is what impressed me.
... that along with half a dozen blokes, forsaking fireside warmth, getting into very cold water above the tops of their offroad motorcycling boots-height, to wade across, and put it out!
I nearly joined them when I saw their initial attempts were not particularly successful, but by the time I got to waters edge, they started getting it under control...

There were many campfires at that rally (I guess about 20 along a 300m creek frontage), and these regularly stoked due to the temperatures being experienced; ... no-one knows* which fire started it.

On 22/05/2014 stingray4100 wrote:>I was with Fiona and I was in a long sleeved t-shirt when we poured water>over this fire. I don't really know the exact time it was and I didn't>have a thermometer, but it wasn't 7.7 degrees when the fire was left unattended.>I would expect that temperature itself (in the ranges we're talking about>here) has less bearing on how a fire spreads anyway - relative humidity>is probably more of a factor.

The beauty of the internet. Back in the 80's these issues could have merely been solved by talking to the people concerned (and having them probably tell you to f**k off). A better outcome than a bunch of computer-tied critics putting their two worthless cents in via cyberspace. Plenty of other more critical issues exist in the campfire world of today, notably tone-deaf guitar players, idiots that think bongo drums and two six packs of Melbourne Bitter make a good relationship (from 10.00pm onwards) and a bunch of hippies who play their version of Wimbledon with hackie sacks (dipped in shellite and torched for good measure). Did you see any of these wild animals on this chosen night, or were you fast asleep with ear plugs in, content in the knowledge that you'd poured 300ml of your precious rainwater onto three embers, and had 'done your bit' for world peace?

On 22/05/2014 TwistedA wrote:>>The beauty of the internet. Back in the 80's these issues could have merely>been solved by talking to the people concerned (and having them probably>tell you to f**k off). A better outcome than a bunch of computer-tied critics>putting their two worthless cents in via cyberspace. Plenty of other more>critical issues exist in the campfire world of today, notably tone-deaf>guitar players, idiots that think bongo drums and two six packs of Melbourne>Bitter make a good relationship (from 10.00pm onwards) and a bunch of hippies>who play their version of Wimbledon with hackie sacks (dipped in shellite>and torched for good measure). Did you see any of these wild animals on>this chosen night, or were you fast asleep with ear plugs in, content in>the knowledge that you'd poured 300ml of your precious rainwater onto three>embers, and had 'done your bit' for world peace?
Weird what gets some people's knickers in a twist.

edit : Oh well I guess he/she is just another (anonymous) computer-tied critic putting their two worthless cents in via cyberspace.

On 22/05/2014 TwistedA wrote:>>The beauty of the internet. Back in the 80's these issues could have merely>been solved by talking to the people concerned (and having them probably>tell you to f**k off). A better outcome than a bunch of computer-tied critics>putting their two worthless cents in via cyberspace. Plenty of other more>critical issues exist in the campfire world of today, notably tone-deaf>guitar players, idiots that think bongo drums and two six packs of Melbourne>Bitter make a good relationship (from 10.00pm onwards) and a bunch of hippies>who play their version of Wimbledon with hackie sacks (dipped in shellite>and torched for good measure). Did you see any of these wild animals on>this chosen night, or were you fast asleep with ear plugs in, content in>the knowledge that you'd poured 300ml of your precious rainwater onto three>embers, and had 'done your bit' for world peace?