Of course if the girl is pretty, there are thousands of guys involved.

But, if she can't give even an inkling of attention despite actively pursuing, then there's no point. Why bother fighting other people Spartan-style when I can pursue a relationship with someone else who also reciprocates the attention.

In the Spartan like deathmatch you are guaranteed the price if you manage to come out on top. That isn't at all the case with a woman that has shown, in your example, no indication whatsoever that she's interested in the first place.

"Why bother fighting" - the girl is pretty, that is why.
You do have to stand out from the long line of schmucks if the girl is pretty. Initially it will take some effort, especially if you (they) just met on a street. For her you are the same schmuck as hundreds of others.

Ps: I think my comment got very misunderstood. You should not start doing backflips when pretty girl walk ins. But knowing how to do it would help.

Too many guys nowadays play computer games, work dead end jobs, have zero ambitions and complain that pretty girls do not pay attention to them.

"Why bother fighting" - the girl is pretty, that is why.
You do have to stand out from the long line of schmucks if the girl is pretty. Initially it will take some effort, especially if you (they) just met on a street. For her you are the same schmuck as hundreds of others.

Ps: I think my comment got very misunderstood. You should not start doing backflips when pretty girl walk ins. But knowing how to do that would help.

I have more self respect then that. I'm notgoing to be begging for some girls attention because she's hot. She needs to do just as much work to woo me as I need to woo her. If a relationship is not a two way street it's not worth pursuing.

No one needs to put a girl up on a pedestal like that, especially if she isn't reciprocating. They're just people, and there are billions of them. One girl being hot isn't a good enough reason to waste time desperately vying for her affection when it's apparent she isn't interested.

There's plenty of other pretty girls, you don't just latch on to the first one you see. I don't want a pretty girl if she's got the personality of a brick/doesn't even give me the time of day.

That shit isn't worth it and you're really just wasting your time, trust me when I say you'll have so many more opportunities that pop up- more than you ever thought you would.

And they'll not only he pretty, but also really fun to be around and want to hang out with you. It's not a fantasy and honestly you should have more standards than just "she's pretty".

Source: Me and my GF, I spent so much time getting hung up on pursuing another girl I almost lost my chance with my current GF. I almost lost an opportunity that I would've regretted for quite some time if I did.

Sure I would've gotten over it eventually but I'm really glad I got my shit together and my current GF gave me a chance.

You do have to stand out from the long line of schmucks if the girl is pretty.

Why? She’s got to offer more than good looks if she’s going to retain any quality guys. If all she’s got going for her is her looks and has low standards then all she’s going to attract is horndogs and thirsty creeps.

If she has gone on that many dates with you and hasn't bolted yet, she's more than likely at least a little interested in you. I'm no dating expert, but I would ask her what she's looking for, and discuss it with her if both of you want the same thing.

It's definitely changing though, I'm pretty sure all of the dates I've been in recently (in the US) the woman at least offered to split it or even insisted on it.

The whole thing where the guy pays made sense back when women didn't have jobs and therefore couldn't pay. But it was also understood that the woman would reciprocate with a home cooked meal at some point. Somehow that part got lost along the way.

In Canada, a lot of people are heavily influenced by American television, so they often kind of thing of the default in dating to be the guy taking the bill, but in reality, it's almost always a 50/50 split. You pay for what you buy.

I'm from the UK, have been on my fair share of dates in my 24 years on this earth and I do not know what the hell you're talking about. I think I've only ever been on one date where the woman has offered to pick up half the tab or even pay for anything. You probably live in a more 'liberal' area than me, but my experience has been almost completely of women who at the very least expect the man to pay for the first date - even if it's just drinks in a bar, not necessarily a meal out.

Dude im in oxford but also have had dates in Edinburgh and Bristol. Never has it happened that the girl expected me to pay for everything. Never have gone on a dinner date as date1. Have a huge friend circle and rarely have heard of girl not offering to pay. When we have, its always seen as a negative sign.

Damn... Clearly i've been dating the wrong type of woman haha. I live in a rural, but 'well-off' area but have also dated in York, Leeds and Cambridge and my experience has been completely the opposite. It has always rubbed me the wrong way when a woman expects me to fork out for everything, but I don't seem to find any that would even consider sharing. I've even had girls say stuff to me along the lines of "i was worried you were going to be a cheapskate and expect me to pay half" - that has always been a deal breaker for me

Dude i know this is going to sound like a generalisation but seems you are dating/seeing a certain type of girls. Id say not so educated, conservative beliefs etc. I might get downvoted to hell for saying this. Oxford happens to be a very multicultural city so iv interacted with girls from several places. Unfortunately the worst offender whom i ended up dating (long story) was uk born n bred from a shitty town called Farnborough. She fits the bill exactly. On the flip side she also complied with all the traditional gender roles (in an unhealthy manner).

Btw mind you with my past girlfriends/flings there have been dates when i paid for everything, like her birthday or graduation etc but they also treated me on special occasions.

People were definitely doing this 15 years ago and you're absolutely kidding to think otherwise.

However, the internet and internet culture makes it easy for things like this to spread and catch on more.

There was a phase for like 6 weeks where girls on tinder were trying really hard to get randoms on Tinder to deliver them a pizza. Which admittedly is a terrible idea giving lonely/desperate men your address. It still happens, but everyone is pretty caught-on now about it.

are those girls raised by ghouls? Who the fuck raises a child to think it is acceptable to beg food from strangers by showing some titties? There are schools and libraries there, not just strip bars and night clubs?

They don’t show titties and tbh I don’t have a problem with them doing it, if you’re a guy and dumb enough to buy a girl something without ever meeting her, than you’re dumb enough to get what’s coming to you. Unfortunately lots of desperate men don’t understand a lot of these things.

Yeah, I've been on a few of these when I started dating after college and caught on quick. I think after my 3rd free dinner (this girl didn't hold back, cost me like $45 on a first date going full 3 courses) I made a rule to only do drinks for first dates.

Big advantages I found was:

You know you're not spending too much over 1 drink

There's a good timeline for you to bolt if you figure out there's no chemistry there

If there IS chemistry, it doesn't hurt to either order another drink and/or dinner since most bars serve food too

One of my best dodges was this girl who not only showed up like 20 minutes late but also we just couldn't connect at all. Thank god she wanted to do coffee instead of liquor so I made up a BS excuse about helping my roommate move and bolted after spending like $5. Had I been my innocent self we would probably have been stuck in a restaurant for 40min before I can even skidaddle.

Not really. I have this female friend who dated many guys from tinder, she thinks they’re ok as friends but don’t want anything more. At the same time, she doesn’t want to be mean/impolite for saying no, and enjoys the attention & company. She compares every guy with her French ex boyfriend and thinks her ex is the best.

6-7 dates in a month is a lot however I understand the desire to be wanted. I want you to reach out to me to hang out sometimes. You can either talk to her about it or you can just stop asking her out and see what happens

Question: have y’all kissed or hooked or anything yet? Either one of these doesn’t always mean that she likes you, but it’s usually a good indicator and if you’re trying to figure it out I’m going to guess by your questions here that y’all haven’t.

it is not too much. You have to gravitate toward being with one another all the time or that is not the relationship. Couple times a week is fine if you like spending time together, it is not drowning.

It's not too much, but you've hung out on average 1-2 times per week. and you say your schedules clash? If you initiated every time, she probably has no other free time to offer to hang out with you. Me and my gf rarely see eachother outside of the weekend due to our schedules. She could also just be reluctant because youve always made the move so keeping the status quo is easy. Ask her if theres something she would like to do the next time you hang out, maybe mention an interest she has shared with you?

You're over thinking it bud. If I've learned one thing is usually women will not go out of their way to give you attention unless they're interested 6-7 dates is a good indicator she's into you. Joke about her bringing you chicken nuggets or something amd if she does you're ready for smooth sailing. If not don't spaz though. What indicators make you feel like she's not interested?

Well we haven't been intimate that much. Kissed a few times (i went for it). We haven't had sex, and I'm okay with that. I'm not trying to push her for sex. The only thing that makes me think she isn't into me is that and the fact she never initiates.

I was in the same position as you a year ago. She wasn’t initiating text conversations, no initiating hangouts, and no initiating physical affection. But she still seemed interested in continuing to see me.

Turns out she has anxiety, that was it. We’re still together.

What helped for me is asking if she was looking for a relationship. Once we were boyfriend and girlfriend, that gave me a lot more breathing room.

Yes for sure wait for sex, the best way for it to work is when it kinda just starts to happen. BUT STOP RIGHT THERE if it is your first time with her you need to actually have a good conversation about what both of you expect and what you're comfortable with etc. Don't worry about killing the mood, be well educated on her. Kissing wise I'd prolly stop or slow down only because shes prolly getting used to you coming to her. My guess is you're "pushing right now" and so she is most likely "pulling" try turning the tables on her and wait for her to text you first, doesn't matter how long it takes, ya just gotta wait and see. If she texts you Woo-hoo! If not then she wasn't as dedicated to the thought of you guys as you are.

It's very easy to get excited, I don't thi k it'd hurt to slow down a bit. I feel like she'll value her time a lot more with you if she recieves a bit less of it. I totally know where your coming from and I don't think you have done anything wrong or bad. Just be careful not to Drown her :) best of luck OP feel free to hit me up whenever if you'd like my advice (I'll do my nest but no promises haha)

Then that’s an excellent sign, because she’s reciprocating initiative.

If she declines a date but follows up with an alternative date, it means she would hang out with you if she could, and the only reason why she can’t is because of something out of her control (prior commitments etc.). That’s a clear sign of interest.

If she rejects and says “maybe some other time” with no follow up date, she doesn’t want to hang out with you at all. That’s a clear sign she’s not interested in you.

Watching for a follow-up after a declination is one of the clearest, simplest, most foolproof, and most obvious means of gauging someone else’s interest.

She is definitely interested in you.

If you want her to make the first move more often, invite her to do so! There are ways of tactfully approaching the subject without placing blame. Just be like, “So I was thinking, most of our dates have been things I want to do, and I feel like that’s not fair to you and your interests. Would you be down to plan our next few dates? I wanna do what you would want to do!”

Not only are you encouraging her to take initiative, you’re also expressing interest in her interests!

The easiest way to find out is make the next 2 dates something free, then 3 dates from now tell her youd like to go out to eat but your strapped fir cash at the moment and if shell pay. If she is not down for any free dates like a walk in the park or her covering the tab for a dinner then shes just enjoying free nights out and posting videos to her social media that somebody is taking her out to push up her desireability level for some dude she actually wants. Also by the 7th date if she is not putting out and is not explicitly religious then its too late and you've already been friendzoned. Also if you just struggle with confidence then the next time you guys are together or meeting up. Surprise her with a sensual hug from behind and kiss on the neck and whisper in her ear and ask her if she missed you. If shes put off you now 100% will be informed and you can stop wasting your time. If she is interested then you've now taken the next step and she will be happy you took the initiative.

Damn, this is my exact system to the letter. If a girl is: explicit in that she isn't interested, shows disinterest by not responding to two texts, or shows disinterest by turning down two date offers, then I'm moving on.

Both genders are equally good at showing not so good behaviour. If that person doesn't do shit for 2 weeks, you've won. That person clearly isn't capable of being honest, therefore he/she shouldn't be in the relationship game whatsoever anyway. There are good people out here I promise!

Because I am introverted I can empathize with someone who isn't outwardly extroverted but at the same time if she's making absolutely zero effort and I'm doing the heavy lifting it seems like there's nothing there.

The tough thing for me with this girl I've been talking to is that she is just so dang busy it's hard to pin her down for free time. It's even harder cause I'm a transplant in my city and she was born/raised here so she has tons of friends and family established. After a week of texting we had something planned for a Sunday, but she didn't want to do it cause she was tired from her plans earlier that weekend. She said she really wanted to see me soon, but didn't end up initiating anything in the near future! I had to reschedule for us.

​

Idk man, thanks for being a listening ear to my rambling lol. The fact we have only physically hung out once in a month of talking is probably not a good thing, regardless of how busy she is. Or is that just adult dating? Ugh. Good luck in your situation OP!!

Co-worker, she started spending a lot of time with me at my desk. I mean, a lot of time. In my personal space, long hard eye contact, and conversations that would go on for hours, well past when her shift was over. I felt a lot of tension between the both of us, and taking into consideration she's very shy and suffers high anxiety, I took my time with her, and didn't want to date someone I work with.

She sent signals, and said certain things that made me thing that yeah, I had a shot with her, and I was falling for her, HARD. Then after a few months, the conversations changed, and it was all about another guy at work, a gay one at that, one that she clearly had a thing for. Eventually as time went on, and I tried my hardest to at least become friends with her, as to stay on her comfort level, plus not shitting where we eat, it soon became apparent that I was most likely being used as an emotional tampon. After nine months, and she had to take a leave of absence, I asked her out, and got a HARD no, like NEVER, not if I was the last man on earth type of no. It even came down to the fact that weren't even really friends, and that for us to be that, she still needed more time. "Baby steps", as she framed it. The worst of it was when she said I was "former co-worker's" replacement, as she used to spend a lot of time with a former colleague the same way, as in, get advice and have a shoulder to cry on. She laughed when she told me that, and thought it was funny.

Essentially, I got duped into believing she was into me, but wasn't. I didn't even get friend zoned. I cut her off cold after that.

nope. you got the "I don't give a shit about you anymore, because you didn't react to me" speech. Off course, she would say that and not "I was desperate for you to ask me out, but you didn't". Girls change mind about someone if he doesn't react on their flirtations. You can't "reserve" a girl by waiting forever to approach to her. Every man has a fleeting windows of few days/weeks/whatevers to act on flirts or he is history to her and she moves on to someone new.

That's not what happened at all. She told me within the first few weeks of us "bonding" that our boss asked her out, and she doesn't shit where she eats, which made me reassess the situation. Either she knew I had a thing for her, and said this to put on the breaks, or she was completely naive in her figuring out that I liked her. I think it was a bit of both. Long story short, she played me, dumped all of her emotional shit onto me, and claimed that I wasn't even her friend, just a replacement for the last guy she used to do this to. Her admitting that just showed what kind of person I was dealing with.

I like feeling that the girl is just as into me as I am to her. If you guys aren’t exclusive, start going out with other people. If she reaches out and wants to hangout, it’s a win, if you find someone else to go have fun with, then it’s a win

I've only really pursued one girl, and after three dates she told me she felt like it was going to a friendship instead of a relationship. I told her I was interested and more and would like to keep trying, but she said she didn't, so I stopped pursueing it then. Sadly, not every person is as clear in what they want as that. My advice would be to ask her how she feels about you if you dont know whats going on

When she stips pursuing me back. Though one girl got mad at me that I didn't try and fuck her. Apparently she's into rapeplay and was trying to "bait" me, but I don't need the guilt of that riding me throughout my life

When it stops being a mutual effort. If they're not reaching out to you as much as you reach out to them, then that's all you need to know. It takes very little these days to just reach out to someone, even if they're busy.

This girl I would see at parties would always flirt with me. One day about 3 weeks ago I sent her a text to see if she would like to get together for lunch and she quickly said yes. On the day of our date, I texted her three hours beforehand and she said she had to go to her grandmother’s birthday dinner. I thought it was weird that our date was at 2 and she wouldn’t have time because the dinner was at 7. Anyways, I told her we can reschedule because family is always first.

She never texted me back to reschedule, so I stopped pursuing.

You only get one shot in my book if you ghost me. If you actually feel bad and make an effort to reschedule, I’ll play along for a bit.. On the other hand, I’m not going to bother pursuing someone who isn’t mature enough to at least tell me they’re not interested.

I just broke up with a woman I'm dating and was seriously considering a long term relationship. She's one of the hottest women I ever dated, a vascular surgeon and incredibly intelligent and kind. But she simply has no time. It's a struggle to get together and I can't even remember the last weekend we hung out even for just a few hours.

If she does not reciprocate or makes any effort after you guys went on 4-5 dates then that's it. A lot of women are fickle at the beginning or reluctant to dedicate time at the very first dates but once you get things going they need to carve time for You. You matter and she is looking for a LTR then you should matter more than most things in her life at that point. If you keep getting bumped because of random events or friends she hasn't "seen in a while" just move on no matter how incredible she might be.

I used to believe I was unnaproachable, because no-one would ever initiate anything with me first. So I've been forcing myself to initiate conversation with anyone and everyone around me (in public).

​

I was very surprised that I had a positive engagement with almost everyone (recently I've been chatting to older folk, and I've been enjoying their tales and stories - legit!!). So I stopped believing that I'm unnaproachable. But prior to that, no-one would engage with me first, ever.

​

So I've been doing this for about a few months at least. Funnily enough, now when I go to a coffee shop or out in public, people initiate conversations with me. So obviously something about my attitude has changed.

Perhaps she does like you, but you're just hard work, or are a little bit insecure and she would initiate if you had a bit more self esteem or self belief.

​

See, I'm still the 200 lb muscle monster I've always been. The only thing that has changed is my perception of myself. And doing just that now makes me way more approachable.

​

Maybe she picks up on the fact that you worry way too much about these things, and that scares her a little bit.

Dude, I have been in your exact same shoes. You've been to 6-7 dates! That is enough time for both of you to get to know each other and your interests. All you need to do now is to ask her to know about your future course. Just ask her bro

thats tough. My wife was doing that when we were dating and I thought she wasn't interested. Im glad I was wrong because I am very happy now. I would continue on. If she gets evasive when you try and schedule dates then chances are you need to move on.

Is she the only girl you're seeing? If so, why? Start seeing other people and spend your time with the ones that make an effort. Eventually you'll realize it's been months since you stopped talking to her and didn't even notice.

I kind of am at that level lol it actually happen to me once. Confidence comes from internal and external successes as well as feedback. If your dating life and social life are hell due to your appearance it doesn’t matter how confident you come off. Reddit loves to assume everyone who is ugly is a basement dweller but believe me I take care of myself just got a hairline that’s as jacked up as my face

I actually have a crush on this girl and she is super introverted, and not that social with guys because she doesn't talk to any but she's really open with her girl friends(completely understandable because I'm somewhat the same). So chatting with her is really tough and she replies after long periods like 3-4 hours.

I've always believed ''Rationality and logic are way better then emotionally infused flights of fancy'' because I hate being emotionally vulnerable.

So I guess this might be the advice I needed to hear and remind myself of who i really was ( not like I changed a lot )

Yeah but she also replies to you. Meaning that she is interested in you in some way and she enjoys your company. You could be her next murder victim, maybe she is fighting her own feelings and rationality. Maybe she over analysises the information you've given her and is diguesting that and thinking of a reply and then dissects her own replies?

Either way, treat her like a friend and if nothing else, you have a friend.

Make your world less lonely even if you are alone in it.

Yeah but she also replies to you. Meaning that she is interested in you in some way and she enjoys your company. You could be here next murder victim, maybe she is fighting her own feelings and rationality. Maybe she over analysises the information you've given her and is diguesting that and thinking of a reply and then dissects her own replies?

Thanks for this comment. Went on 2 dates recently with a girl I really like, both which went very well, and now there's no communication from her. I need to remember what relationships do to me mentally and physically for that matter. And not get caught up with these very superficial feelings for someone I don't know very well.

Grats on the two dates! Yeah she's probably got her own thing going on as well. Life is unpredictable and she could be a hermit like me and trying to reassure her ownself without trying to become codependent. Maybe she's binging out on all the marvel movies. She became a cat and wandered around and is now waiting to become human again so she can feed herself.

6-7 dates is a good number, and the fact you've kissed is a good sign. I went on 6-7 dates with a girl (who was initiating just as much as me) but turned out that she just wanted to be friends and was never really interested in me in that way, which was fine still. Leave it for a bit though, let her come to you now. It'll be hard, but the pay-off is worth it for your mental health. If you don't message her for 3-5 days, she'll either:

​

A) Message you (and say something like "Haven't heard from you recently", and you can just reply and say "Didn't think you were interested to be honest!")

Normally once she says no. I have had two girls say "but I wanted you to chase" a while after I gave up but... No. Not doing that.

Also lack of effort once we're actually involved. Especially at the start there's a misconception that women don't need to put any effort in. Frankly that's not a balanced power dynamic and I'm looking for a partner not a pet.

In your situation ask her. If she's not that bothered she will say or possibly put more effort in. If she doesn't once you have asked though it's not worth the time to ask again. A month into dating is not a committed relationship yet. It's possible she's busy and it's new enough other things are more important but more likely she's just not as interested as you are.

Also possible she is always beaten to the message. A month in I would imagine you have seen her a handful of times this month? How old are you both? That makes a massive difference here.

Low-interest, too hard to get, If I get the sense she would forget me really easily after a date.

Or if she's acting like she wants me to believe those things.

Too many women in this city to worry about the ones who think they're too good for me. I also don't really like introverted women, so it's a good filter for me if I interpret shyness as that. I don't need her to lead me unless that's what she wants to do, but if she's so shy she's too stricken by anxiety to show any emotion but anxiety, she's not my type anyways.

Also just the usual red flags of shit I don't like. Don't like heavy drinkers, smokers, druggies, weed smokers. Prolly other stuff, but those are my insta-nopes.

In your case, is she saying yes when you initiate? Cause idk, some girls are just bad at planning shit and literally do nothing unless someone invites them out. Some guys are like that too, but they usually just end up stuck at home forever.

I personally would have stopped trying after a few days. The energy has to come from both sides for these things to work. It's shitty but, at least in my experience, you'll be better off in the long run by looking for that energy elsewhere.

I stop pursuing a girl when I realise I'm the one who initates everything. I never hear back then a couple weeks later when we randomly meet I get hit with a "why did you stop talking to me" bs. I dont want to deal with a one sided thing. I tell them I stop initiating to see if they are interested and they always act offended. Maybe I am in the wrong but it's so draining to be the one who initiates every time.

Lol i am actually suprised so many men feel familiar to me. Had the exact same thing happen multiple times lol. Me initiating everything and when i stop she acts shocked.

I get that women want a men that goes all in for them in some circumstances but this just isnt worth our time. I have had multiple women i spend litteral months trying to get together with and it ended with nothing. It takes allot of energy and time and am not willing to go through that again.

If she doesn't reply after 3 texts or 2 phone calls (spread over 7 days), she doesn't want anything to do with you. If she had an emergency over that week and she's still interested, she *will* reach out. Otherwise, move on, she's not worth your energy.

Yep. Talking to a girl right now who is an absolute blast in person and quite flirty, but over text she’s a dead end. She’s on her phone 85% of the time so I know it’s not that she just isn’t into texting. Not too far away from packing up and moving along.

If she doesn’t put in any effort, she doesn’t really care. I found myself in a similar situation recently, I was bending over backwards for her trying to plan dates, hangout, etc. But she would never follow through with me. At that point you just need to place a value on your time & cut your losses. If it’s meant to be, you’ll know.

Dude women are fucking complicated. If you really like her keep pursuing her but DONT be needy or clingy just act chill. They often appreciate the effort you put into this. Really cant tell whether she means it or not but i would say it is pretty positive if she tells you she needs time.

I messed things up with a girl a bit ago and I know I was a complete mess. I was able to apologize and we were "friends" again but recently I told her I needed a week or two to get my ducka in a row because I'm still really interested in her and I know I gotta fix myself before I can try to fix us. Originally I was acting desperate. I figure if after this week I call her and ask her to coffee and if she says no then it's time to move on. But this girl makes me feel like I'm back in third grade crushing on her haha and I sire as hell want to fight for that. Just don't wanna Cross the creep line n make her uncomfortable.

Showing interest involves texting back, texting first, and being the one to initiate dates (not necessarily romantic dates, just hangouts in general - coffee, that sort of thing). I'm always down for friends, but if they're not showing that they want to spend time with me, I'll stop. There are exceptions, of course - some people don't really communicate in that way, or expect me to do it. There's this one girl who kinda? seems to be interested? Sort of? Mixed signals. She doesn't text first, or much at all, and it's at the point where I would normally stop, but she proposed coffee first (and things have been delayed so many times due to various legitimate-sounding circumstances), and today she said that I'm one of her favourite people.

But there's also a difference between pursuing something and keeping the option open. I'm not pursuing this girl (I don't normally pursue anyone), but I'm also undecided as to where to place her in my social life.

The only thing playing hard to get accomplishes is a one-way ticket out of my contacts.

Couldn't agree more with you - see the thing that I find interesting is that if you lurk on the other side of the wall, there are so many more 'dating advice for women' to be 'hard to get'. Apparently if we as men do not chase them, we become emotionally lazy.

It's been said before - if she's interested in you, she'll put in the effort to see you too. I've had a recent experience that might shed some light.

I recently started dating again and met a girl at a bar. We talked, we danced, we exchanged numbers and messages, and agreed to be each other's 'dancing buddy' in an upcoming salsa class. Fast forward a few months later, I've always been the one initiating, both messages and asking her out.

At first I thought nothing of it since she's always a yes, but she's never a fuck yes. In the end I made up some excuse about being busy at work and cancelled on our most recent date, and took a wild guess that she'll never message me again. I was right.

At the end of the day, you get what you settle for. I'm of the belief that if you work on yourself hard enough, there will be that girl that you find insanely attractive that will also put in the effort. If you're lucky she may even trust you enough to walk alongside you in an LTR.

Women often wont tell you that they're not interested. Too many jerkass boys have made that impossible for them. Instead they will beat around the bush and make it impossible for you to know where you stand.

They're basically hoping that you fall off the face of the earth.

Grant them their wish. They're not worth it.

For your situation:
You owe it to yourself to have the "What are we doing talk" with the woman you're seeing.

That depends.. when you say you have been seeing this girl. Is it a full on relationship? Or do you just hangout?
Anyways, she should show interest, if she doesn't, move on. There are a ton of girls looking for someone, whether that is long or short term.
So independent of the time you are with someone it should feel worth it.
Even for short term.
I always believed a 2 week amazing story with someone is better than a year's worth of meeeh with someone else.

Smallest sign of lack of interest... before at least. Nowadays I don't even try in the first place. My anxiety is so bad I can barely stay in a club. Attention makes me want to run away and if someone walks in my direction I run to the toilet. I had to go up stairs in the club so the group I went with didn't notice how much I was drinking (which was constantly chugging pints of beer and going back to the bar)

I am too lazy to pursue, plus I hate it and it is physically draining to me. I might ask on first few dates, initiate texts, try to initiate first kiss, first touch and all that crap, because I have to. However, if after some time girl just does not seem to be equally interested in me as I am in her, and does not change her attitude even after pointing that out, first I become sad, then angry, then sad and angry again few times again, then I just stop trying.

To be honest, I rarely do any chasing in the first place, but here are a few red flags for dates:

Never texts back but is on her phone all the time while she's with you - finish your drink and bail there and then

Has excuses for not meeting or generally doesn't seem keen to do something soon. If a girl is interested in you, she'll want your attention and will be finding any excuse to have you over/do something etc. This is another surefire sign that you're wasting your time

Doesn't put much effort in generally, doesn't make much eye contact or there is no playful atmosphere or repeated touching. If all of this is true and she still wants you to pay for dinner, pay your half and bail because you're just a free lunch.

If you're seeing each other, I suppose that means that you are in a some kind of relationship, so I don't think you're "pursuing" her anymore. Pursuing is trying to initiate relationship. Now, since you're initiating things, it might mean several things among which are:

she lets you be assertive and plan your activities. nothing wrong with that, talk to her and see if she opens up

she is brought up in a tradition where it is up to a man to be the driving force in the relationship. Also, talk to her

Or maybe she is not that into you, but I don't know what woman would go on dates with you if not interested, right? You are seeing her, in the "we go out together" way, not "looking at her window at night with goggles" kind a way, right?

You aren’t paying her to spend time with you, so I would say that she probably does like you. I wonder if she isn’t confident enough to pursue you, and feels more comfortable letting you do it. You said that you are both introverts, which makes initiating social situations challenging, but you are making the effort...not unreasonable to expect her to indicate that she’s interested in you as well. Not a big fan of game playing, although maybe this week you might keep yourself too busy at work to text every day (if you do). Might be hard if you really like her, though. You may just want to go the route of talking to her about it.

young generations have screwed up mating rituals by girls and blokes hanging together non-romantically and you can thank them for the confusion. It didn't occur me before, but consider this: are you just hanging out as friends or did you at any point make it painfully clear that these are romantic dates and not friends dates?

Aah. So dating is ruined because girls/boys or men/women started to interact with one another without the intention of sex or a relationship. So basically men being friends with women or vice versa killed dating. Damn that younger generation for seeing the opposite gender as more than a sexual being and try to develop relationships outside of sex. You should definitely take advice from this person.

I was in a similar situation with my girlfriend, she has messaged me fewer than ten times of her own accord in the time we've been together. But it's evident she cares in other ways, and that's what you need to look for.

If she gives good vibes when you guys are together. My girlfriends social skills are lack luster which is where this poor messaging comes from. If this girl you're seeing is outward and communicates with other people you might be right. But if everything's great when you guys are together asking can't hurt.

When she doesn't want to wait for sex. I know this sounds really weird, but I dated this girl who put out all the time and I was super excited about it and things didn't work out because it was just about the sex. The problem for me is, sex makes me grow incredibly attached to someone whether I want to be or not. So when I'm dating a girl and she wants to get it on I explained the situation to her and ask her to wait since I don't want to grow attached to someone before I know them. Granted, I haven't had to stop doing the pursuing. A shocking amount of women have immediately dumped me on the spot when I explain that to them. Hollywood didn't prepare me for this, they always told me that women had no interest in sex and now I'm finding out the opposite is true.

Hollywood doesn't cause broken hearts any more than video games cause violence.

What you are describing is projection and that's probably why your confession is a turn off. Trying to saddle someone else with your morals is awkward, and it's a not very subtle method of controlling someone else. Just enjoy your date, and if things escalate, decline. You always have the right to say no, and you aren't required to give a new friend an explanation. "No." is a complete sentence.

About the other thing, of course women enjoy sex, they are human, just like you.

That isn't what I meant; your opinions and experience are as valid as mine. I just hate reading that "rom-coms told me that the head cheerleader will marry the chess champion if he pursues her relentlessly".

No. You cannot learn reality from fantasy. You actually must participate in life and interact with others and learn how your personality and ideals mesh with others.

There probably are inhibited women out there who are reluctant to have sex, but you'll have to go to their wheelhouse. Catholic school, Christian college, etc.

Your average women with a public or liberal arts education is perfectly at ease with her sexuality and embraces it as part of her persona. You just can't dictate another's biology, but you can probably prey on the insecurities of those who have been raised in a culture of shame or oppression. But before you glom onto a hesitant virgin, consider how marrying a person with such a low sex drive might pan out.

I mean my bedroom is pretty dead right now and I'm 27 lol. Also I meant "Hollywood taught me" as more of a tongue-in-cheek joke than being serious about it. I don't even own a tv, always assumed it was a saying that was always spoken dripping with sarcasm.

Honestly I think more than anything I'm still hurt about a bad breakup a few years back. The smartest thing for me to do right now would be to not date at all until I get all of that sorted out.

Hell, I knew a girl named Allison that did the same thing but at least if you treated her to a great meal you at least got anal at the nights end.
Not all the time but usually.
She had a fear of getting knocked up so she’d only go for anal!
I don’t know what ever became of her but lots of guys around town had their first anal sex with her!
She lived a good meal followed by a good bum fuckin!

The pursuit is over pretty much after the first time we sleep together. Not because I check out. Women just seem to get hooked after that. Even the few times it was supposed to be NSA sex. They always catch the feels.

Another way of looking at it: I wouldn't actively pursue after about 3 dates though. If there's not a natural, mutual connection at that point, not worth my time.

This girl... what all have you done together? Do you chat a lot besides to talk about going out?