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so ironic.... I'll prefer if Naruto is the one who fought Obito because he need to take on revenge for his parents... but it's better for him to deal with the mastermind, Madara.... He's the only one now who can stand Madara...

I kinda feel sorry for Obito because everything he experienced... well, Kishimoto really did a great job in telling the flashback
now I also know who's grave Kakashi visited every morning (the reason why he always being late...)

and we got another break when everything almost reached the climax...
I wonder what can Naruto's friends do when they arrived?? their power is most likely useless in front of Madara... maybe they'll just arrive to congratulate Naruto's victory

Yes and no regarding the revenge. Naruto theme is NO Revenge, just move on and be happy! :3

how about the fact that the mist was called the bloody mist before obito became tobi? and the possibility that madara planned the entire rin incident using the mist?

the mist was called the bloody mist because of the death matches in the chunnin exams of the village, it is not necessary that the fourth mizukage was in control, may be the fourth carried out such practices himself, even danzou did the same thing in konoha's anbu root,
i highly doubt madara to be the one behind the rin incident, i am pretty sure he did not plan kakashi killing rin, which was the main deal there. and i also think rin is no mist spy because if she was kakashi wouldn't take the trouble to go to her grave and talk to her, and her grave in konoha itself shows that she was a konoha ninja

I guess both Kishi and Kubo have hit their limit. Although though be fair, Naruto is a tiny bit more interesting than Bleach, atm IMO.

i think they've both reached their creative limits years ago, which is probably why they're trying to finish their respective series. although, i think they should have finished them much earlier. bleach should have been done eons ago.

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"Sometimes you wake up. Sometimes the fall kills you. And sometimes, when you fall, you fly."~ Neil Gaiman (The Sandman)

i think they've both reached their creative limits years ago, which is probably why they're trying to finish their respective series. although, i think they should have finished them much earlier.

I still see potential in Naruto to finish out as an overall good manga. It has definitely not reached the lows of Bleach. There is still a lot of hope in this series and I think once we are able to move past Obito (when his character is killed off and laid to rest for good) the story will have another ‘high’. Naruto—to me—has always been one of those series that has these slumps, where it feels like it just can’t get any worse, but then it picks itself up again and becomes an entertaining story (as well as one that doesn’t try to hard). And I think that is the main problem.

Kishimoto tries too hard sometimes. The most recent example being Tobi’s reveal—something most people had figured out when his character was introduced. When Kishimoto goes more with the flow and not trying to meet up with any expectation, I think he produces better work. I simply feel that the story needs to focus on Madara and Sasuke with Naruto in the same room—not Sasuke with Orochimaru in the flashback machine (but I know it will happen either in real time or in a flashback). I want to see progression in this story because that is what Kishimoto is good at.

But I wouldn’t say that Naruto is in the same position as Bleach. I have a feeling that Kishimoto has some sort of idea how he wants to end his series—Bleach is more ‘anything goes’. But if Naruto is given sharingan, I’d probably jump on this bandwagon too.

I still see potential in Naruto to finish out as an overall good manga. It has definitely not reached the lows of Bleach. There is still a lot of hope in this series and I think once we are able to move past Obito (when his character is killed off and laid to rest for good) the story will have another ‘high’. Naruto—to me—has always been one of those series that has these slumps, where it feels like it just can’t get any worse, but then it picks itself up again and becomes an entertaining story (as well as one that doesn’t try to hard). And I think that is the main problem.

Kishimoto tries too hard sometimes. The most recent example being Tobi’s reveal—something most people had figured out when his character was introduced. When Kishimoto goes more with the flow and not trying to meet up with any expectation, I think he produces better work. I simply feel that the story needs to focus on Madara and Sasuke with Naruto in the same room—not Sasuke with Orochimaru in the flashback machine (but I know it will happen either in real time or in a flashback). I want to see progression in this story because that is what Kishimoto is good at.

But I wouldn’t say that Naruto is in the same position as Bleach. I have a feeling that Kishimoto has some sort of idea how he wants to end his series—Bleach is more ‘anything goes’. But if Naruto is given sharingan, I’d probably jump on this bandwagon too.

though i agree with you for the most part, you are still way more positive than i am when it comes to naruto. i admit that kishi is better than kubo as a writer but unfortunately, i can't say that naruto still entertains me. i read naruto out of habit and because i want to read it all the way to the end. i rarely stop reading a series i've started. i want to know how it ends, that's all. so i guess, in a way, kishi still manages to interest me. but then again, kubo also does that for me. what i do enjoy is the discussions i get in this forums.

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"Sometimes you wake up. Sometimes the fall kills you. And sometimes, when you fall, you fly."~ Neil Gaiman (The Sandman)

When did any of Obito's action seem intelligent to you? He has yet to do a single intelligent thing as far as I am concerned...

My bad I should have said more focused.... Either way he turned from Naruto to Sasuke in half a heartbeat.... for a girl.... I guess girls aren't underpowered at all they can cause wars just by doing nothing.

Why do people keep saying it's so obvious that Obito is going to turn good?

most probably because of the parallelism between him and darth vader. and because obito was not evil to begin with, even his intentions are not evil, it's just that he ended up doing evil deeds. he was brainwashed by madara just like nagato was. heck, even sasuke and kabuto were mind-fucked. he turned dark side because he was made to believe that he could retrieve everything he had lost if he worked with madara, he betrayed his clan, shunned his friends and disowned konoha. sooner or later he will realize his mistake and when he does he will try to make amends. only two people could possibly talk-no-jutsu him, it will either be kakashi or naruto with his "this is my way of the ninja" speech. come on, you gotta admit this is the most obvious progression of the plot. unless kishi pulls a major twist and turns obito into the big baddie and not just some madara lackey (which i doubt will happen). kishi will try to redeem obito.

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"Sometimes you wake up. Sometimes the fall kills you. And sometimes, when you fall, you fly."~ Neil Gaiman (The Sandman)

Why do people keep saying it's so obvious that Obito is going to turn good?

Considering the unanswered questions during the flashback, it seems fairly likely that once the truth about Rin is revealed something major will happen. Consequently, it is highly unlikely that Obito will simply shrug his shoulders and say "Whatever" and continue with his current plan (what he does when the truth is revealed is debatable).

To put it into perspective, if the entire basis of your faith system is based on a false assumption, then everything you've done will working under that system must be questioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronin myael

most probably because of the parallelism between him and darth vader.

No, it is the simple fact that many villains in the series, especially the big ones, get some form of redemption. Nagato, Gaara, undoubtedly Sasuke, Kabuto and Sasori to an extent (theirs was mostly sympathy or at least pity), and especially Itachi. We have been literally conditioned to expect some form of redemptive outcome.

No, it is the simple fact that many villains in the series, especially the big ones, get some form of redemption. Nagato, Gaara, undoubtedly Sasuke, Kabuto and Sasori to an extent (theirs was mostly sympathy or at least pity), and especially Itachi. We have been literally conditioned to expect some form of redemptive outcome.

that too!

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"Sometimes you wake up. Sometimes the fall kills you. And sometimes, when you fall, you fly."~ Neil Gaiman (The Sandman)

No, it is the simple fact that many villains in the series, especially the big ones, get some form of redemption. Nagato, Gaara, undoubtedly Sasuke, Kabuto and Sasori to an extent (theirs was mostly sympathy or at least pity), and especially Itachi. We have been literally conditioned to expect some form of redemptive outcome.

I totally disagree with the 2 i put in bold which you basically said but still why even include them? (although i'd probably add haku and possibly zabuza). just because we saw kabuto and sasori's backstories doesn't mean that it was a redemptive outcome. just because there was a reason behind a villain's actions whether it's an identity crisis like kabuto or losing his parents like sasori, it's not any form of redemption. telling sakura about the spy was just a whimsical statement that was ultimately a shot at orochimaru who was sasori's enemy. that's not redemption. and i'm not really sure what to say about edo-sasori since that was just a bad storyline all together. we've also seen deidara, hidan, kakuzu, kisame and danzo die as villains, flashbacks into their earlier lives or not, they weren't redeemed. it's kind of a wash with villains being redeemed or not.

i highly doubt orochimaru will ever be redeemed. sasuke, yes of course. madara no. but obito is still an enigma as far as i can see. which is what still makes him interesting to me. i agree that there is a little to be desired from the explanations of tobi being obito, but i like the story and obito so far. i'm not down on it hardly at all, not nearly like the last few posters on this thread at least. i'm excited to see what happened behind rin's death and i want to see which course of action obito will take once all is out in the open. personally i'd like to see obito get even more evil (or the same as he has been i guess) but i can see it going either way at this point. i do think he'll turn on madara which would be a semi-good act though. since obito and madara are so over-powered, their downfall will probably be not working together and not trusting each other.

^well we can agree on this point, that i would like obito to remain evil, even after he learns the reason of rin's death, he has gone far too long and caused too big of a havoc to go for redemption now,
even if obito decides on not continuing on this path surely someone will just slay him

No, it is the simple fact that many villains in the series, especially the big ones, get some form of redemption. Nagato, Gaara, undoubtedly Sasuke, Kabuto and Sasori to an extent (theirs was mostly sympathy or at least pity), and especially Itachi. We have been literally conditioned to expect some form of redemptive outcome.

Agreed, even Oro seems to be 'helping' out a little atm (though his agenda is obviously suspicious)

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Current Anime - Attack on Titan
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Well Orochimaru is more of a wild card really. He is largely uninterested in destroying the world. he did attack Konoha on a whim, but that was partly a ploy to get Sasuke, and partly just for the evulz.

As for the whole "Obito turning" thing. I don't exactly see how the truth behind Rin's death would even change anything. It won't make the world any less rotten, and it won't make Rin any less dead, which are his two primary motives for doing things.

I totally disagree with the 2 i put in bold which you basically said but still why even include them? (although i'd probably add haku and possibly zabuza). just because we saw kabuto and sasori's backstories doesn't mean that it was a redemptive outcome. just because there was a reason behind a villain's actions whether it's an identity crisis like kabuto or losing his parents like sasori, it's not any form of redemption. telling sakura about the spy was just a whimsical statement that was ultimately a shot at orochimaru who was sasori's enemy. that's not redemption. and i'm not really sure what to say about edo-sasori since that was just a bad storyline all together. we've also seen deidara, hidan, kakuzu, kisame and danzo die as villains, flashbacks into their earlier lives or not, they weren't redeemed. it's kind of a wash with villains being redeemed or not.

I did forget Haku and Zabuza, thank you for reminding me.

That being said, I was indicating an expressed sympathy on my part for Sasori and Kabuto as redeeming the characters for me rather than a strict redemptive action. To put it another way, by Kishimoto providing some context for their actions I was able to view them not as simple bad guys, but rather characters that due to flawed histories performed evil actions (this was especially true of Kabuto). So, while they did not have a strict redemptive moment, I do feel the were "redeemed" as characters if for no other reason than they became somewhat sympathetic and understandable.