Does a .38 Super cartridge offer anything that a 9mm doesn't provide? Other than being a non-military round in places that have restrictions on ownership. I had a colt 70 gov model in .38 super. It would punch holes in things you pointed it at but the cartridge had a reputation as being inherently inaccurate, something about the rim being supported on 23 degree segment of rim instead of headspacing on case mouth. I bought it because of a soft spot for oddballs and under dogs. But given equally strong, modern actions could a super be loaded to give more perfomance than a hot 9mm?

I seem to recall reading years ago that the additional velocity of the .38 Super did not translate into significantly increased stopping power, but that was when all you could get was FMJ ammo. Probably a different story now.

One other thing--thee was something about the way the semi-rimmed case fit the chamber that reportedly affected accuracy adversely. I understand that can be remedied by doing something to the barrel. May require a new one.

In general the 38 Super can do a bit more than the 9mm can. When the 9mm tops out at it's peak +P+ pressures the Super has not reached it's yet and can usually do 100 or so fps more. It can also do more with heaviers bullets.

More commercial ammo is available than at any time in the last 70 years. Low cost ammo like Aguila and Armscorp is available for plinking and drills. The better stuff is usually more expensive than it's counterparts in 9mm.

It shines in handloading.

Not as powerful a round as the 9x23 but there is a lot more commercial ammo available.

The Winchester stuff is quite good and moderate in price. Cor-Bon is better and also more expensive.

These days barrels from Colt, Kimber, STI , Springfield, Sig (when you can find a Sig in .38 Super) and other manufacturers who make guns in .38 Super are generally quite good.

The story on .38 Super accuracy is fairly simple. When Colt first began production they headspaced off the vestigial semi-rim, and as you can imagine that didn't work to well. The aftermarket, noting the foolishness of this, began to make barrels designed to headspace off the mouth and as a result had much improved accuracy. Later (in the 80s IIR) Colt started to do the same on production guns. My new Colt has fine accuracy and will hang with any other pistol with no problem. I have also never had or heard of 1911 pattern pistols having an issue with rim lock like you here .32 ACPs having from time to time.

I've chrono'ed several loads of Super .38 through my Lightweight Commander. I posted a review of it with some chrono data in my post here. Comparing it to actual speeds that I've observed, on the range, from other person's pistols the super runs about 100 FPS faster THEN THE 9mm Para. Now this is no scientific; just my humble observations. The .38 Super does this at lower pressure than the 9mm +P No matter how you cut it the .38 Super bests the 9mm; one can argue degree, but the super has superior ballistics.

I think a better comparison would be to the .357 Sig. The Sig is a very good cartridge with excellent consistency and reliability, but again operating at a much higher pressure. A really good comparison would be between .357 Sig and 9x23 Win.

If you consider the 9 and the 38 equals then it becomes a matter of platform preference. If you prefer the 1911 then the .38Super/9x23 is the best choice for every reason except (possibly) the availability and price. If you prefer 9mm sized guns then stay with 9mm or upgrade to the .357sig.

All that being said - I do like my Super .38

Last edited by mnw42; September 25, 2008 at 02:42 PM.
Reason: spelling

The story on .38 Super accuracy is fairly simple. When Colt first began production they headspaced off the vestigial semi-rim, and as you can imagine that didn't work to well. The aftermarked noting the foolishness of this began to make barrels designed to headspace off the mouth and as a result had much improved accuracy. Later (in the 80s IIR) Colt started to do the same on production guns.

I'm not involved in competitive shooting but I seem to recall the .38 Super got a boost because it could be loaded hot enough to make "major" in competitive shooting.

__________________
Jim's Rules of Carry: 1. Any gun is better than no gun. 2. A gun that is reliable is better than a gun that is not. 3. A hole in the right place is better than a hole in the wrong place. 4. A bigger hole is a better hole.

I've done quite a bit of shooting and reloading of both 9mm and .38 Super over the past 40 years. The Super can be reloaded to give higher velocities than the 9mm for any given weight bullet. But, in my experience, modern .38 Super FACTORY ammo gives little, if any, advantage over the factory 9mm, especially if the best 9mm +P and +P+ loads are considered. I did some chronographing of .38 Super and 9mm factory ammo in similar 1911 type Colt and Kimber pistols with 5" barrels.

But only if one reloads the round. Factory rounds are seriously underloaded currently.

The 38 Automatic (38 ACP) was introduced in 1900 and was the equal of the 9mm Luger. The Super was introduced in 1927 and was a significant improvement. However, between lawyers and lawsuits, most ammo has been downloaded ever since.

So, current Super 38 loads are very similar to 9x19. The Super has more chamber space and therefore can burn more powder and drive bullets faster at the same pressure levels. But only if one reloads.

Accuracy? Most all modern Colt barrels headspace on the casemouth, and all the aftermarkets (notably Kart and BarSto) headspace on the casemouth. Accuracy is as good as any other equally prepared 1911 or other pistol.

Just for the record, I've been a Super 38 fan long before IPSC discovered it. I've been back in the Super business for several months now (divorce and such, don't ask) and I'm rather pleased.

I'm not involved in competitive shooting but I seem to recall the .38 Super got a boost because it could be loaded hot enough to make "major" in competitive shooting.

Well, it was not considered safe to run 9x19 at major pressures. However, USPSA now allows open guns to run major 9. So it is now an especially bad idea to pick up 9mm ammo at the range because it may be someone's reloaded 9x19 loaded to push a 125gr bullet at 1350 fps....or more.

This email link is to reach site administrators for assistance, if you cannot access TFL via other means. If you are a TFL member and can access TFL, please do not use this link; instead, use the forums (like Questions, Suggestions, and Tech Support) or PM an appropriate mod or admin.

If you are experiencing difficulties posting in the Buy/Sell/Trade subforums of TFL, please read the "sticky" announcement threads at the top of the applicable subforum. If you still feel you are qualified to post in those subforums, please contact "Shane Tuttle" (the mod for that portion of TFL) via Private Message for assistance.

This email contact address is not an "Ask the Firearms Expert" service. Such emails will be ignored. If you have a firearm related question, please register and post it on the forums.