Acharne:Silly Jesus: Acharne: Pick: To be fair most of the people in the Sheriff's "Mugshot Roundup" tend to be.....well, you know.

/ facts is facts

If you arrested 40 retired white women and 10 black men, the mugshot roundup would be 80% white. What exactly was YOUR point? Police arrest who they want to arrest.

Huh? You're really in the camp that thinks that criminals are disproportionately black because the cops just don't arrest all of the white criminals?

Your phrasing is a bit awkward but essentially covers it. The police look harder at black people, and the results of that are more black arrestees. I'm not saying black people don't commit crimes, of course they do, they are people. I certainly see a bias though, and much profiling. I don't know where you live, but where I live if you are native, you get looked three times. If you're white, maybe half a glance. Cops do that shiat, you can't ignore it.

Got anything to back that up other than a hunch?

Also, if you look at something specific, like, say, murder, the stats are pretty clear. Black males are something like 10% of the population and commit something like 70% of the murders. Are the police just not investigating / solving all of the white murders?

Gyrfalcon:Lsherm: Silly Jesus: Huh? You're really in the camp that thinks that criminals are disproportionately black because the cops just don't arrest all of the white criminals?

Dude, I consider myself a conservative and I have yet to see a goddamn banker frog-marched into jail for wrecking the whole worldwide economy.

There is a good argument to be made that minorities are disproportionately arrested not because they aren't committing crimes, but because we tend to dedicate the most police resources to problem areas, and those areas are disproportionately populated with minorities.

Think about the number of white people you know who smoke pot. There's probably a close to zero chance they are ever going to be arrested for it. It's a real risk if you're a young black male, however because the cops are around watching for it.

It's not as unlikely a scenario as you might think. About the only place left one has any guaranteed 4th Amendment rights is in one's house, and to a great extent, one's business. The crimes cops arrest ANYONE for are crimes they can see. So if you smoke dope outside you get busted for it; do it at home, not so much. If people could commit bank fraud out on the street, I guess they could be arrested for it; but it's kind of tough to do. Since bank fraud or insider trading needs computers and phones and lots of paper, it has to be done inside where nobody can see it.

It's worth noting that one of the most successful counterfeiters in recent history was a black ex-gangster, who'd done time for robbery, who had a whole setup in his home in Lawndale (not the best of all LA areas). But he never got caught until the Secret Service finally tracked him down...because it was all inside. So just being black, or even a black criminal, isn't a guarantee that cops are going to be all over you.

Exactly. One group is more likely to smoke pot in the hallway of the projects where the police are constantly present investigating murders etc. The other group smokes in their living room where the police don't usually come around to investigate murders / assaults etc.

destardi:Maybe if we approached it more like this cop, there wouldn't be a 10 month old white baby shot in the head by 14 and 17 yo black monsters in Georgia.

Older black folk cross the street when they see black kids coming. There's a reason. UNLESS YOU LIVE IN THE HOOD AS A WHITE PERSON YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE DEFENDING.

They won't put that story on Fark for some reason. I know it's been submitted many times by different people and it's a pretty significant story. I guess it's sort of the opposite of the Trayvon story so it doesn't fit the libby lib agenda of the site.

Also, if you look at something specific, like, say, murder, the stats are pretty clear. Black males are something like 10% of the population and commit something like 70% of the murders. Are the police just not investigating / solving all of the white murders?

Perhaps you missed the article and the thread that you are posting in. You also fail to understand how statistics are generated. Yes I am suggesting that a black person will get blamed for a crime a white person commited. Yes I am suggesting there is poor policework happening.

You cannot think that all the stats are based on black people committing more crimes. I'm not saying they don't either. What I am saying, and you seem quick to ignore, is that the police are using racial profiling not just too much, but to the exclusion of actual police work. Mistrust the stats as much as the police.

rewind2846:Silly Jesus: When did statistics become racist? Do the laws of probability no longer apply if they don't suit the libby lib agenda?

"Statistics" cannot be racist. How they are used is what can make them racist.Unfortunately we have people in this country, many of them on FARK, many of them in this thread, some even using the name "Silly Jesus", who would choose to use these numbers to "prove" either the inferiority of "the other" or superiority of the group to which they believe they belong.

These people also tend to use those numbers in a vacuum... it's called "cherry-picking". Without the numbers relating to other factors in the matrix, such as high school drop out rates, under and unemployment, single parenthood, poverty, incarceration rates by police who specifically target them (as in this article), types of crimes accused of and committed by and a whole host of other social factors, any statistics which might show that one group or another is more "criminal" are meaningless.

But they will be cited anyway, with a screeching howl of "See! See! It's their fault!" and an accusatory finger waved in the general direction of the group which the amateur statistician is trying to accuse.

Like a gun, the numbers are a tool. Some people use them to plink targets in a cornfield, and some use them to shoot up an elementary school.

Yes, I answered a known troll, but it had to be said.

You could have just said that the daily black murders in Chicago etc. are the fault of whitey and patted yourself on the back. Would have been a lot less typing.

Spend the budget fixing the differences in culture that make 16-year-old black men so much more likely to commit a crime in the first place, rather than spending it harassing them after we already farked them up.

Then you'd have to do away with liberal policies that provide a financial incentive for the father to not stick around and for the government to raise the child. And that's a non-starter. That would ruin the modern day plantation model that the democrats have worked so hard to cultivate. It's done more to harm the black family unit than any republican policy has even come close to.

Statistically, children raised by a single parent is 60% more likely to criminally offend. The black illegitimacy rate is about 70%.

(citation needed)

You've really never seen that information before?

Single motherhood is the greatest predictor of future criminal activity of the children even when race / income / location etc. are controlled for...and the democratic plantation has made it attractive for 70% of black mothers to be single.

Spend the budget fixing the differences in culture that make 16-year-old black men so much more likely to commit a crime in the first place, rather than spending it harassing them after we already farked them up.

You would do that if you were employed as a policeman?

Strange idea of the scope of the job. Sounds more like social work than police work.

What would I do? I would stop and search only those persons who gave me probable cause to do so. But then, I give a damn about the Constitution, and the rights of citizens, whereas most authoritarians do not.I'd also not do DUI checkpoints, because I disagree with the Supreme Court ruling that there's a 4th Amendment exception for drunk driving, just like a disagree with you that there's a 4th Amendment exception for young black men.

There are quotas, handed down from politicians through top people in the force down through to the guy on the street. These quotas are based on whatever the politicians are trying to push forward, gain support for, or appear to `fix`. They exist, it is how they show they are `doing their job`, it would be foolish to act as though they did not. This is essentially the premise of the wire season 4 I believe which was written by an ex-cop who worked in baltimore...

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.(my bolding)

Lets actually look at this. It appears there is a right. The right is to be secure against unreasonable searches. This implies reasonable searches are ok, otherwise you would have the right to be secure against searches (all searches).

It could be argued that these searches are reasonable (in that there is reasoning behind them) so the 4th does not apply although I agree with you about checkpoints for DUI which are a blanket stop. The difference ironically is the profiling which makes the frisk reasoned at some point and therefore reasonable. The checkpoint is random and therefore not reasoned so not reasonable.

Often (not always) reasonable is that which can be reasoned or expected, not that which is sort of nice and accommodating.

Google. I'm on my phone. It's been cited in similar threads many many times and is readily available if you are genuinely interested in broadening your knowledge, which I doubt.

Single motherhood is the greatest predictor of future criminal activity of the children even when race / income / location etc. are controlled for...

And correlation doesn't equal causation.

That's what "controlled for" means. Not sure if serious.

and the democratic plantation has made it attractive for 70% of black mothers to be single.

Because being a single Mom on welfare is so freaking awesome, am I right?

There is a financial incentive to being a single mother with multiple kids. The check keeps getting bigger. Not saying that it's freaking awesome, but the financial incentives are set up in such a way that you get more money (even if it's still poverty level) the more irresponsible you are. There's also a cultural component that contributes to it being OK / cool / expected / accepted to not care for your children if you are a male.

I wonder if its ever occurred to you that the high incarceration rate of black men (who statistically do FAR more time for the same crimes as white men) might maybe gee golly gosh have something to do with it?

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the draconian sentences imposed by the War on Drugs (which disproportionately target minorities) are the real problem?

Maybe you should stop scapegoating black people as being a bunch of mooches and calling for social programs to be undercut and look at the problems of institutionalized racism in our prison system?

Silly Jesus:Acharne: Silly Jesus: the democratic plantation has made it attractive for 70% of black mothers to be single.

Holy fark. Holeee fark. I've seen people out themselves as dumb and racist before, but not quite like that.

You get the 'Dumb racist' award. Hopefully you're not a fundy too, though that would totally fit.

Please explain how you arrived at your conclusion? I've merely stated well known facts. What do you dispute?

It's not very productive to just call those that you disagree with names. Especially if you don't even know what you are disagreeing with.

Statistics are hard. Durr.

Using statistics generated by racists to prove racism is the lowest of low hanging fruit. I don't think I'll make a point you'll appreciate, let's end this now. You stop assuming young black men are bad, and you'll stop helping to socialise them negatively. Try that.

Acharne:Silly Jesus: Acharne: Silly Jesus: the democratic plantation has made it attractive for 70% of black mothers to be single.

Holy fark. Holeee fark. I've seen people out themselves as dumb and racist before, but not quite like that.

You get the 'Dumb racist' award. Hopefully you're not a fundy too, though that would totally fit.

Please explain how you arrived at your conclusion? I've merely stated well known facts. What do you dispute?

It's not very productive to just call those that you disagree with names. Especially if you don't even know what you are disagreeing with.

Statistics are hard. Durr.

Using statistics generated by racists to prove racism is the lowest of low hanging fruit. I don't think I'll make a point you'll appreciate, let's end this now. You stop assuming young black men are bad, and you'll stop helping to socialise them negatively. Try that.

One group is more likely to smoke pot in the hallway of the projects where the police are constantly present investigating murders etc. The other group smokes in their living room where the police don't usually come around to investigate murders / assaults etc.

Did it ever occur to you that black people get busted for pot more since they are more likely to be stopped and frisked, not necessarily because they're all as stupid as you make them out to be?

I wonder if its ever occurred to you that the high incarceration rate of black men (who statistically do FAR more time for the same crimes as white men) might maybe gee golly gosh have something to do with it?

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the draconian sentences imposed by the War on Drugs (which disproportionately target minorities) are the real problem?

Maybe you should stop scapegoating black people as being a bunch of mooches and calling for social programs to be undercut and look at the problems of institutionalized racism in our prison system?

Or is wrapping your brain around that too hard?

You explain to me how it's societies fault that 70% of the murders are committed by less than 10% of the population first.

The differential sentencing is a bad thing. I agree. Some of the studies that I've seen on that though don't account for prior convictions impacting later sentences. And minorities are much more likely to have prior convictions. Otherwise, the sentences should obviously be equal if race is the only difference.

The culture in these communities needs to change. That's where the problem originates. It needs to stop being OK to punish a kid for succeeding at school. It needs to stop being OK to not raise your children. It needs to stop being OK to encourage antisocial and criminal behavior. Sure, there's institutional racism all through society, but there are also some serious problems within black culture that need to be addressed, but they can't be because anyone who brings them up is instantly called a racist by people of your ilk because there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with the people committing all of these crimes, it must all be the fault of someone else.

I wonder if its ever occurred to you that the high incarceration rate of black men (who statistically do FAR more time for the same crimes as white men) might maybe gee golly gosh have something to do with it?

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the draconian sentences imposed by the War on Drugs (which disproportionately target minorities) are the real problem?

Maybe you should stop scapegoating black people as being a bunch of mooches and calling for social programs to be undercut and look at the problems of institutionalized racism in our prison system?

Or is wrapping your brain around that too hard?

This. I don't think he realises that if you treat 'a people' like shiat, that is affects behaviour. There are no black people where I live, here it the police are always on about 'Native crime'. The same natives we don't give jobs too, barely educated and treat like drunks and criminals. if one were to take all the statistics, one could develop your own bullshiat model that Natives are 'less intelligent, more prone to crime'. This is a social problem, not a law enforcement problem. People like SillyJesus just will never understand that. They'll hide behind statistical racism and declare themselves to be 'thinking people'. It's almost useless to engage them in debate. They think what they use is 'facts' and fail to ascertain how those 'facts' were forumulated.

One group is more likely to smoke pot in the hallway of the projects where the police are constantly present investigating murders etc. The other group smokes in their living room where the police don't usually come around to investigate murders / assaults etc.

Did it ever occur to you that black people get busted for pot more since they are more likely to be stopped and frisked, not necessarily because they're all as stupid as you make them out to be?

I made them out to be stupid?

Sure, that contributes to it some, but it's also a difference of where the activity is performed.

The leading cause of incarceration of an African American male is a non-violent drug offenseBetween 1985 and 1995 the American prison population of drug offenders increased from 38,900 to 224,900 with African American males at the top

Silly Jesus:The culture in these communities needs to change. That's where the problem originates. It needs to stop being OK to punish a kid for succeeding at school. It needs to stop being OK to not raise your children. It needs to stop being OK to encourage antisocial and criminal behavior. Sure, there's institutional racism all through society, but there are also some serious problems within black culture that need to be addressed, but they can't be because anyone who brings them up is instantly called a racist by people of your ilk because there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with the people committing all of these crimes, it must all be the fault of someone else.

The fault is shared, and it's not racist to comprehend that.

This was shocking to read. Shocking. Turns out you DO understand some of the problem! This is progress.

Seriously, no sarcasm, you've been a mouthbreathing racist twat in this thread until that statement right there. Good for you. It is the point I keep making.

I wonder if its ever occurred to you that the high incarceration rate of black men (who statistically do FAR more time for the same crimes as white men) might maybe gee golly gosh have something to do with it?

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the draconian sentences imposed by the War on Drugs (which disproportionately target minorities) are the real problem?

Maybe you should stop scapegoating black people as being a bunch of mooches and calling for social programs to be undercut and look at the problems of institutionalized racism in our prison system?

Or is wrapping your brain around that too hard?

This. I don't think he realises that if you treat 'a people' like shiat, that is affects behaviour. There are no black people where I live, here it the police are always on about 'Native crime'. The same natives we don't give jobs too, barely educated and treat like drunks and criminals. if one were to take all the statistics, one could develop your own bullshiat model that Natives are 'less intelligent, more prone to crime'. This is a social problem, not a law enforcement problem. People like SillyJesus just will never understand that. They'll hide behind statistical racism and declare themselves to be 'thinking people'. It's almost useless to engage them in debate. They think what they use is 'facts' and fail to ascertain how those 'facts' were forumulated.

The leading cause of incarceration of an African American male is a non-violent drug offenseBetween 1985 and 1995 the American prison population of drug offenders increased from 38,900 to 224,900 with African American males at the top

http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet

According to Unlocking America, if African American and Hispanics were incarcerated at the same rates of whites, today's prison and jail populations would decline by approximately 50%

5 times as many Whites are using drugs as African Americans, yet African Americans are sent to prison for drug offenses at 10 times the rate of Whites

Now why is that, Silly Jesus?

Again, there is less reason for the cops to be in my gated community than there is for them to be in the projects on the outskirts of downtown. If you listen to the scanner they are called there constantly over reports of gun shots, thefts, gambling in the stairwell complaints etc. etc. If my neighbor is smoking pot in his living room and there are no calls of gunshots ringing out or assaults, the police are much less likely to stumble into his living room and find him smoking pot. On the other hand, while they are investigating the gun shots for the third time of the night they are fairly likely to stumble upon the guy smoking pot in the stairwell of the projects.

Acharne:Silly Jesus: The culture in these communities needs to change. That's where the problem originates. It needs to stop being OK to punish a kid for succeeding at school. It needs to stop being OK to not raise your children. It needs to stop being OK to encourage antisocial and criminal behavior. Sure, there's institutional racism all through society, but there are also some serious problems within black culture that need to be addressed, but they can't be because anyone who brings them up is instantly called a racist by people of your ilk because there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with the people committing all of these crimes, it must all be the fault of someone else.

The fault is shared, and it's not racist to comprehend that.

This was shocking to read. Shocking. Turns out you DO understand some of the problem! This is progress.

Seriously, no sarcasm, you've been a mouthbreathing racist twat in this thread until that statement right there. Good for you. It is the point I keep making.

Your definition of racist is lacking a basis in reality. Remember, after 3rd grade it no longer works to just call those that you disagree with names, even if you are just trying to make up for your intellectual inferiority. It makes you look too desperate.

The differential sentencing is a bad thing. I agree. Some of the studies that I've seen on that though don't account for prior convictions impacting later sentences. And minorities are much more likely to have prior convictions. Otherwise, the sentences should obviously be equal if race is the only difference.

The culture in these communities needs to change. That's where the problem originates. It needs to stop being OK to punish a kid for succeeding at school. It needs to stop being OK to not raise your children. It needs to stop being OK to encourage antisocial and criminal behavior. Sure, there's institutional racism all through society, but there are also some serious problems within black culture that need to be addressed, but they can't be because anyone who brings them up is instantly called a racist by people of your ilk because there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with the people committing all of these crimes, it must all be the fault of someone else.

The fault is shared, and it's not racist to comprehend that.

That's swell and all, Silly Jesus, but why do you emphasize the culture of the communities over institutionalized racism? Why do you condone stopping and frisking minorities more often than whites, as per your Weeners:

When did statistics become racist? Do the laws of probability no longer apply if they don't suit the libby lib agenda?

Why is that, Silly Jesus? Why is yourimmediate reaction to blast black people for their supposed moral failings and ignore the overarching effects of the the institutionalized racism in the criminal justice system and only grudgingly concede to that point when myself and other posters call you out?For someone who claims to care about the good of society, you seem mighty selective the parts you criticize.

If you listen to the scanner they are called there constantly over reports of gun shots, thefts, gambling in the stairwell complaints etc. etc. If my neighbor is smoking pot in his living room and there are no calls of gunshots ringing out or assaults, the police are much less likely to stumble into his living room and find him smoking pot. On the other hand, while they are investigating the gun shots for the third time of the night they are fairly likely to stumble upon the guy smoking pot in the stairwell of the projects.

Therefore that justifies unconstitutional stop and frisk of young black men who did absolutely nothing to garner suspicion? Your own logic shows that they should probably be targeting whites as well, and yet they don't, and you sit there and tell me that statistics show that blacks should be frisked. You. Make. No. Sense.

Silly Jesus:Your definition of racist is lacking a basis in reality. Remember, after 3rd grade it no longer works to just call those that you disagree with names, even if you are just trying to make up for your intellectual inferiority. It makes you look too desperate.

The fact is, that last comment I complimented you on was not racist. It was on point, valid and fair. It's the rest of the time you condone implying black people are genetically determined to have lower socio-economic factors that I will challenge and call racist. Since I find racism dumb, and racists quick to use dumb reasons to be racist, you got called a dumb racist. I'm not taking it back.

You should keep elaborating on the good point about this not being somethign we 'blame' black people for. We need to blame society. Call that pat all you want, it's true. We socialise people. We have responsibility. You did a 180º suggesting that was part of the problem, as prior to that you were defending profiling. You still are. I get why, that it's silly to have 50 cops in Bel Air and 50 in Harlem when more crime is happening in Harlem. That fine. However, there are real problems caused by profiling that we are talking about here, and you sounds like you are justifying it based on racist statistics, not because you want people to believe that the real issue is about culture, which it.

So, lesson learned, if you do not want to be called a Dumb Racist, don't act like one. Apparently it is within you, just try a little harder.

MeanJean:That's swell and all, Silly Jesus, but why do you emphasize the culture of the communities over institutionalized racism? Why do you condone stopping and frisking minorities more often than whites, as per your Weeners:

Why do you emphasize institutionalized racism over culture? It seems that we both agree that both factors contribute to the problem, we only differ on the degree to which each is a factor. Institutionalized racism has been directed toward many other groups in our society and those communities have somehow overcome it. I simply think that the lack of the ability to overcome it stems largely from a broken culture. You seem to just think it's mostly the fault of whitey.

As far as the stop and frisk, I have some constitutional problems with it as a practice, but if it's going to be practiced anyway, it only makes sense to use statistics and play the odds. It's similar to airport security. Remember when the TSA put on a show of stopping and searching Senators to make sure they weren't terrorists? That's asinine. With limited resources, it makes sense to direct those resources toward an area that is more likely statistically to generate results. If a big group of middle easterners in their mid 20's hijack a plane, it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense to prevent future attacks by searching wheelchair bound 3 year old Caucasian girls being pushed by their grandmother. Wouldn't you agree? Same goes for crime on the streets. Looking at the girl is just for show and everyone knows it, even you. It's a feel good measure and it's a waste of time and asinine...all based on emotions.MeanJean:

Why is that, Silly Jesus? Why is yourimmediate reaction to blast black people for their supposed moral failings and ignore the overarching effects of the the institutionalized racism in the criminal justice system and only grudgingly concede to that point when myself and other posters call you out?For someone who claims to care about the good of society, you seem mighty selective the parts you criticize.

Again, I think that we both agree that both things contribute, we only disagree about the ratio. Looking at other groups that have succeeded despite seemingly insurmountable odds of discrimination, I am prone to look within the group that is failing to succeed for clues as to why.

If you listen to the scanner they are called there constantly over reports of gun shots, thefts, gambling in the stairwell complaints etc. etc. If my neighbor is smoking pot in his living room and there are no calls of gunshots ringing out or assaults, the police are much less likely to stumble into his living room and find him smoking pot. On the other hand, while they are investigating the gun shots for the third time of the night they are fairly likely to stumble upon the guy smoking pot in the stairwell of the projects.

Therefore that justifies unconstitutional stop and frisk of young black men who did absolutely nothing to garner suspicion? Your own logic shows that they should probably be targeting whites as well, and yet they don't, and you sit there and tell me that statistics show that blacks should be frisked. You. Make. No. Sense.

LOL wut?

In another post I address the constitutionality issue, but you totally glossed over my point and explanation and jumped to some unrelated nonsense.

Does that not make sense that the police don't stumble upon people smoking pot when they aren't in a random white guy's house in a gated neighborhood but spend 75% of their time dealing with nonsense in the projects?

Acharne:Silly Jesus: Your definition of racist is lacking a basis in reality. Remember, after 3rd grade it no longer works to just call those that you disagree with names, even if you are just trying to make up for your intellectual inferiority. It makes you look too desperate.

The fact is, that last comment I complimented you on was not racist. It was on point, valid and fair. It's the rest of the time you condone implying black people are genetically determined to have lower socio-economic factors that I will challenge and call racist. Since I find racism dumb, and racists quick to use dumb reasons to be racist, you got called a dumb racist. I'm not taking it back.

Liar. Please back up this assertion. You can't, because I never said anything of the sort. I never mentioned genetics or implied it. I spoke of culture, which is not genetic. You jump to that argument because it's your only defense mechanism against any opposing viewpoint. It's a safe harbor to call your opponent a racist rather than to address what they are saying.

You should keep elaborating on the good point about this not being somethign we 'blame' black people for. We need to blame society. Call that pat all you want, it's true. We socialise people. We have responsibility. You did a 180º suggesting that was part of the problem, as prior to that you were defending profiling. You still are. I get why, that it's silly to have 50 cops in Bel Air and 50 in Harlem when more crime is happening in Harlem. That fine. However, there are real problems caused by profiling that we are talking about here, and you sounds like you are justifying it based on racist statistics, not because you want people to believe that the real issue is about culture, which it.

So, lesson learned, if you do not want to be called a Dumb Racist, don't act like one. Apparently it is within you, just try a little harder.

I'm still waiting on an explanation for how the FBI crime statistics are racist...

Silly Jesus:Acharne: Silly Jesus: Your definition of racist is lacking a basis in reality. Remember, after 3rd grade it no longer works to just call those that you disagree with names, even if you are just trying to make up for your intellectual inferiority. It makes you look too desperate.

The fact is, that last comment I complimented you on was not racist. It was on point, valid and fair. It's the rest of the time you condone implying black people are genetically determined to have lower socio-economic factors that I will challenge and call racist. Since I find racism dumb, and racists quick to use dumb reasons to be racist, you got called a dumb racist. I'm not taking it back.

Liar. Please back up this assertion. You can't, because I never said anything of the sort. I never mentioned genetics or implied it. I spoke of culture, which is not genetic. You jump to that argument because it's your only defense mechanism against any opposing viewpoint. It's a safe harbor to call your opponent a racist rather than to address what they are saying.

You should keep elaborating on the good point about this not being somethign we 'blame' black people for. We need to blame society. Call that pat all you want, it's true. We socialise people. We have responsibility. You did a 180º suggesting that was part of the problem, as prior to that you were defending profiling. You still are. I get why, that it's silly to have 50 cops in Bel Air and 50 in Harlem when more crime is happening in Harlem. That fine. However, there are real problems caused by profiling that we are talking about here, and you sounds like you are justifying it based on racist statistics, not because you want people to believe that the real issue is about culture, which it.

So, lesson learned, if you do not want to be called a Dumb Racist, don't act like one. Apparently it is within you, just try a little harder.

I'm still waiting on an explanation for how the FBI crime statistics are racist...

Acharne:Silly Jesus: Acharne: Silly Jesus: Your definition of racist is lacking a basis in reality. Remember, after 3rd grade it no longer works to just call those that you disagree with names, even if you are just trying to make up for your intellectual inferiority. It makes you look too desperate.

The fact is, that last comment I complimented you on was not racist. It was on point, valid and fair. It's the rest of the time you condone implying black people are genetically determined to have lower socio-economic factors that I will challenge and call racist. Since I find racism dumb, and racists quick to use dumb reasons to be racist, you got called a dumb racist. I'm not taking it back.

Liar. Please back up this assertion. You can't, because I never said anything of the sort. I never mentioned genetics or implied it. I spoke of culture, which is not genetic. You jump to that argument because it's your only defense mechanism against any opposing viewpoint. It's a safe harbor to call your opponent a racist rather than to address what they are saying.

You should keep elaborating on the good point about this not being somethign we 'blame' black people for. We need to blame society. Call that pat all you want, it's true. We socialise people. We have responsibility. You did a 180º suggesting that was part of the problem, as prior to that you were defending profiling. You still are. I get why, that it's silly to have 50 cops in Bel Air and 50 in Harlem when more crime is happening in Harlem. That fine. However, there are real problems caused by profiling that we are talking about here, and you sounds like you are justifying it based on racist statistics, not because you want people to believe that the real issue is about culture, which it.

So, lesson learned, if you do not want to be called a Dumb Racist, don't act like one. Apparently it is within you, just try a little harder.

I'm still waiting on an explanation for how the FBI crime statistics are racist...

I am not a liar. It turns out you do not want to have an adult conversation, it's too bad, you were coming around and we were finding common ground.

But, turns out you had no interest and called me a liar, so, I'm done with you. I'm at work, I have spent far too much time on this thread already, and now I've got a guy calling me a liar who just a short time ago was all hoppin' mad at me for calling you a racist, and explaining your racism.

Acharne:Silly Jesus: So you're shown to be a liar and you flee? Niiiice.

I am not a liar. It turns out you do not want to have an adult conversation, it's too bad, you were coming around and we were finding common ground.

But, turns out you had no interest and called me a liar, so, I'm done with you. I'm at work, I have spent far too much time on this thread already, and now I've got a guy calling me a liar who just a short time ago was all hoppin' mad at me for calling you a racist, and explaining your racism.

We almost had something.

You lied and it can be demonstrated by simply looking through the thread. I never said the inflammatory thing that you claimed that I said, and you know it, otherwise you could easily quote it. You were losing the argument so you made up a racist comment and attributed it to me, and when I called you on it, you were suddenly too busy to carry on the conversation.

Not shocking that someone with your views would be so spineless and resort to such tactics and then run away.

In another post I address the constitutionality issue, but you totally glossed over my point and explanation and jumped to some unrelated nonsense.

Fair enough. Kindly reiterate why targeting black people is justified. I'd normally use the search function to locate the post but your screen name appears well over a hundred times in this thread, so I don't feel like searching for a needle in a haystack.

Why do you emphasize institutionalized racism over culture?

Why do I emphasize institutionalized racism over culture? Because I don't believe that black people are anywhere near as stupid, short-sighted, and selfish as you like to make them out to be. But hey, maybe that's because I'm not a racist.

It seems that we both agree that both factors contribute to the problem, we only differ on the degree to which each is a factor. Institutionalized racism has been directed toward many other groups in our society and those communities have somehow overcome it. I simply think that the lack of the ability to overcome it stems largely from a broken culture.

And that is because you're an overprivileged white guy who has never had to deal with institutionalized racism firsthand and would much rather place all the burden on the most powerless, marginalized people in society then (heaven forbid) raise a finger to make the tiniest difference by critically examining institutions.

I really find it hard to believe that a guy who lives in a gated community knows anything about what blacks in the projects experience in their day to day lives. You know about as much about the day to day life of the average black person as a dolphin knows about mountain climbing.

You're selfish, and you are trying to justify your selfishness and lack of concern with the burdens of the poor and minorities with a smokescreen of steaming, self-serving, smug bullshiat.

Silly Jesus:Acharne: Silly Jesus: So you're shown to be a liar and you flee? Niiiice.

I am not a liar. It turns out you do not want to have an adult conversation, it's too bad, you were coming around and we were finding common ground.

But, turns out you had no interest and called me a liar, so, I'm done with you. I'm at work, I have spent far too much time on this thread already, and now I've got a guy calling me a liar who just a short time ago was all hoppin' mad at me for calling you a racist, and explaining your racism.

We almost had something.

You lied and it can be demonstrated by simply looking through the thread. I never said the inflammatory thing that you claimed that I said, and you know it, otherwise you could easily quote it. You were losing the argument so you made up a racist comment and attributed it to me, and when I called you on it, you were suddenly too busy to carry on the conversation.

Not shocking that someone with your views would be so spineless and resort to such tactics and then run away.

Your Boobies in the thread had 'libby libs'. You then went on to justify the FBI stats as 'totally accurate and totally not biased' and then argued that it is about culture. I think much of those statistics gets used by racists to justify racism. You did it here, don't pretend you didn't. You actually *do* understand this stuff, but you're too goddamn up on a high horse to have a real conversation. I should have known right there I was not dealing with someone worth the time of day. I was not losing the argument, but if you want to 'declare yourself the winner', I cannot stop you. I see you can handle calling others names but cannot take being called a racist. It makes you defensive and frankly, apparently, it makes you smarter since your posts begin to take on a positive narrative.

Frankly, we both failed here. It's not about calling people names that I don't agree with. I called racists racist, and I disagrees with racism. I never lied, I *do* have time to debate you but I'm realising it is fruitless, you do not care, not one witeless moment to actually talk about the issues. You want to assume people are 'libby libs' and don't match whatever agenda you might have. Me calling you a racist derailed any valid point I have for you, as you didn't read it. You went to high horsing about elementary school, then called me a liar.

Silly Jesus(farkied: Jesus must indeed seem silly to this guy):Single motherhood is the greatest predictor of future criminal activity of the children even when race / income / location etc. are controlled for...and the democratic plantation has made it attractive for 70% of black mothers to be single.

jasnotron:So you'd spend the budget limiting their first amendment rights ? Seriously their gangster rapper, screw anything that moves and then don't be a dad culture is the main problem.

"Their" culture? Did you give up your US citizenship? Because I'm pretty sure "their" culture is also "your" culture -- and therefore also your responsibility to fix. Outgrouping people and then blaming them for your problems is not a valid solution for any social problem.

Besides being wrong -- the statistics you link do not support that claim -- you might want to check your assumptions against the way we treat the "politically correct" group of women vs. those same violent crime arrest statistics. The vast majority of violent crimes are committed by men; do your claims of "politically correct" willful blindness hold up when applied to men vs. women? If not, what's so special about the combination of race and political correctness that make your claim true in that case?

Strange idea of the scope of the job. Sounds more like social work than police work.

Neither is managing a budget in the first place. But so long as we're ignoring the context of my reply I guess that's not important.

More importantly, I don't understand why you want to distinguish so clearly between police work and social work. Isn't the primary duty of a police officer to maintain social order? Don't we want the police to be a force for good in the community?

Silly Jesus:Then you'd have to do away with liberal policies that provide a financial incentive for the father to not stick around and for the government to raise the child. And that's a non-starter. That would ruin the modern day plantation model that the democrats have worked so hard to cultivate. It's done more to harm the black family unit than any republican policy has even come close to.

Exactly what policy are you referring to that only applies to blacks? Because last time I checked the same incentives would be equally available to whites. Which makes it an unlikely cause for the problem you describe. Did I miss a black-only incentive program to destroy families?

Also I think families should be eliminated as method for childrearing in the first place, so I'd fully support a plan that ends all incentives related to any sort of family behavior. If you want to talk non-starter, tell people about your plan to take away their "right" to control "their" children -- economic policy changes, even those related to political power, are cakewalk in comparison.