Phillies Shave Off The Beard

Today the Phillies removed Eric Bruntlett from their 40-man roster to make room for some minor leaguers to be added to protect them from the Rule 5 draft. This essentially means that Eric Bruntlett will not return to the Phillies in 2010. Tyler Walker, Paul Hoover, Andy Tracy and John Ennis were also taken off the roster, though there is a chance Hoover, Tracy and Ennis could return next season.

In two seasons with the Phillies since coming over from Houston in the Brad Lidge deal, Eric hit .202 with a .550 OPS on top of two homers, 22 RBIs and 20 stolen bases. Looking at those numbers, especially on the heels of a dismal 2009 campaign, it’s surprising he even lasted this long. However his contributions during the 2008 season – filling in for an injured Chase Utley – combined with his efforts in the post-season will remain his best memories in red pinstripes.

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108 Comments

Phils fan in NYC

November 17, 2009 at 1:28 pm

i know he gets blasted on this site all the time, but i liked the guy. He scored key runs, filled in on defense admirably, had a great beard and was never a jackass. Whenever there was some wild comeback, he was always one of the guys scoring. Sure, he was pinch running for some slowass, but hey, the guy was scoring key runs.

I was at the game at citifield with the triple play, i’ll always have love for him for that alone. As a native new yorker who laughs at the mets, it was a great subway ride home.

Don – you’re a Bruntlett supporter and I respect that. I don’t think that he’s a terrible player (he’s a good base runner, he doesn’t hit into DP’s, he can bunt and he can adequately field multiple positions) BUT we’re moving forward without him and I understand why. There are other tastier fish in the sea and we might be able to land one of them… if we don’t end up with a super utility guy, a minor league replacement is not going to kill this team and it would save us some money. I would rather see us roster one decent bench guy and one minor leaguer than two non-productive bench bats (a la Stairs/Bruntlett).

I wonder what level of suckiness is acceptable for the Phillies 25th man? Alot depends on what they do with 3b, but I think Ruben and Co are of the mindset that their regular line-up is pretty much sufficient in the offense dept, probably looking for someone who can fill in defensively and not hurt you. I don’t see them going all hog wild over a bench guy, but I could be wrong.

That’s the whole point… if you are really concerned what the last guy on your bench does with the bat … maybe you should have planned out your lineup a little bit better

That is why they won’t get DeRosa or someone as a bench guy if they cost $3+ Million … you can’t go spend Monopoly money .. so you pick the best out of the guys that are willing to play for the League Minimum, or just above that ..

The problem is that The Beard does not belong in the majors. Get rid of him. Trade for Cole. Send Cole and two AAA players for Doc. Dock, Lee, Drabek, Blanton, and Happ. Bring in Figgins or Beltre. Get a few bench players and build up the pen.

Love how everyone is still on the trade Cole idea. 25 year old lefty who two years ago was MVP of the world series… you’d have to be out of your mind.

Pitchers have bad years. We all love Cliff Lee and he’s an amazing pitcher to watch, but in 2007 he went 5-8 with a 6.29 era and had to be sent back to the minors. Kind of puts that 10-11 season into perspective. Let’s see how Cole does this year before we give up on the guy, Lee bounced back in 08 winning the cy young award.

I think it would be an expensive, but i’d like them to sign Beltre for third (Better defense and higher offense potential) and Derosa as our utility guy. My reasoning is that the team really seemed run down in September this year when they were trying to clench. Having a guy like Derosa would really give the team the option to spread out some offdays without sacrificing too much offensively or defensively. It would also let us have a bench guy getting fairly steady work to keep the bat alive.

Bruntlett, like many former Phillies, will not leave without his fair share of memories. Most former Phillies, however, didn’t have blogs petitioning for their release, like we were. It’s a happy, happy day at FEB.

Who, really was the 25th man, Bruntlett or Stairs? One bad bench spot I can see, but not two. This year, the bench didn’t perform at all offensively, and it needs an upgrade, because even defensively the bench players weren’t all that good.

I think that if we go out and get a guy like Carroll or Derosa, we can get them enough AB’s to have success… the problem with Bruntlett and Stairs is that neither of them are well rounded enough to rely on. You’re essentially giving up something by using either of those guys for an entire game… if you had a guy that could play a little defense and swing the bat and play a few positions, you could afford to rest Utley, Feliz and Ibanez (without severely hurting your lineup).

I liked the Beard, he hustled, played every position except catcher and pitcher, was a good team guy. And when he got some playing time at the end of the season and played 3 out of 4 days he had like 4 hits. Cut the guy some slack, I am not saying they should keep him, but he was on the team that won a WFS and then went back the next year. So he will be remembered. I wish him luck and thank him for two quality years of service to the Phillies.

I agree with the point the starters need a little more rest during the year, not just to rest the regular guys but to keep the bench guys sharp and in the game. Look at Dobbs compared to 08, he had many more at bats, then in 09 and he was a better hitter then. I do think the bench guys need to be able to defend their position in the field more then Stairs could

I dont care is Cole is the next coming of Carlton, which he isnt. He has a terrible mindset to play in this town. I dont like what came out of his mouth. The league has caught up to him. Yes if we have to pay 65 for seats thats fine. They yankees do and they have the RING.

Hey MOAB, I’m pretty sure that right now Moyer should be listed last on everyone’s rotation unless he decides to retire or the Phils plan on eating a huge amount of $$. I like Happ as the #4, but at the sametime (Setting aside payroll restrictions) if the Phils could get Halladay for Happ, Taylor, & a carpenter/savery type I’d make that deal in a second.

Jeff, If you want to dream about the Phils have a 200 million dollar payroll like the Yankees that’s fine, but be prepared for dissappointment. If we can get to 150 I’ll be more than satisfied.

Cole is a strange guy who’s gonna say strange things, we can put up with him if he can help us win. I think we need more than one bad season to be sure that he can’t. Let’s see how his offseason goes from what I hear he’s going to be working on pitching 2-3 days a week during the winter, I pray to god he learns to throw a cutter.

jeff, you scenario will never happen. First of all Drabek is NOT ready for the majors he still hasn’t pitched in AAA. Also, as it was previously stated the phillies don’t have enough money. They would need to get 1 starting pitcher(Drabek is not starting the year in the rotation), new third basemen, 1 or 2 bench players and at least 2 bullpen pitchers. Thats 5 new contracts not to mention Roy Halladay’s contract. Also, add in all the players who will file for arbitration which include victorino who will most likely get a long term deal, and blanton who will get a decent amount for next season. This look like around a $200-250 million dollar payroll. reality check…that is not happening

The Phightens need Juan Uribe as their infied utility player. He can play ss, 3rd and 2nd and hit for some power. He can also ensure that Jimmy Rollins does not cruise, but hustles all year. He can also pinch hit. If someone gets hurt for a period of time, he will be a valuable and effective replacement. Someone is bound to break a toenail at one time or another. Uribe is only 31. Much better than Bruntlett.

I for one like the fact that you can get decent seats at the Bank for reasonable prices, we have a ring, and do not pay $70 for nose bleed seats(not that there are any really at the bank,) If that means we only get one ring every 3or 4 years and are always in the playoffs or in the hunt for the WS, like that much better, then eliminating much of your fan base because they can not afford to go. IMO DeRosa is not an everyday 3rd basemen but that is just me.
Uribe is a interesting chose, I kind of like that idea, or a player like that, that can spell whoever is at third and rest Chase a little more.
I see Dobbs as having a rebound year, maybe not 08 pinch hit numbers but better then 09. I say you concentrate on re-signing Lee for 3 years and hope some of the prospects(Drebek) will be ready by 2011 to solidify our rotation. Cole deserves another year to see which one shows up. If he can be a solid #2 guy with Blanton, and Happ for next year. Then when these minor league guys are ready to step up you end up losing Blanton before 2011 and go from there. Build from the farm up. I still hold out hope for Feliz to resign at about 4 mil. and get a good bench guy that can rest him, DeRosa would be great for that, but I think he would be too expensive for that roll. I like Beltre but I worry about his ability to stay injury free, same goes for De Rosa.

I too thought that they should have kept Geoff Jenkins on the team last spring instead of releasing him. Believe that he was 35 years of age and declining in ability but still would have had quite a bit more left in the tank than Matt Stairs. Amaro Jr. was wrong on this one as I believe that Jenkins would have done a much better job pinch hitting compared to Stairs and Bruntlett and would have been a much more capable outfield replacement and fill-in. The Phils gave up on a great team player and player-cheerleader on that bench. If I remember correctly, Amaro Jr. was talking about bringing in Gary Sheffield or Andruw Jones at the time with neither of those possibilities panning out.

Bruntlett was a good guy, but very inconsistent and lets remember that he made many key errors. If your role with the team is as a bench player you need to be one or 2 of the following.
A long ball hitter, contact hitter, or a solid glove.

This season he was none of them.

Don, your claim of the 25th man is fine, but hitting .0something and not making good defensive decisions makes him suck!

saying your 25th man hits .125 or worse shows very little expectation for that spot. Shoot I should try out.

I look at Ben Francisco as the 4th Outfielder.. and your top RH pinch-hitter

In the National League.. that means a lot

It means that he should play in almost every single game, in some role
…

Bruntlett, however, is there in case of an injury, etc.. so that if Rollins or Utley were to go down during a game, you wouldn’t have Greg Dobbs playing SS

They are looking to bring Miguel Cairo to Spring Training … he’s that same type of player. You guys can’t expect everyone on the roster to excel at hitting .. when a guy’s main role is to be a UTILITY MAN

Bruntlett had a few errors this year, and that’s why he is being let go.. they could care less about his hitting

Yea Honestly… I think the real problem is that people expect the Phillies to have a team where a player like Ben Francisco.. or Greg Dobbs .. is the worst player on the team

and that isn’t going to happen, ever ..

Francisco could start for multiple teams in MLB.. and Dobbs is one of the best pinch-hitters in baseball over the past 3 years

For some reason, since we started winning, people forget what the makeup of a Major League Roster is …

things you need include:
A Defensive-Minded Utlity Player..capable of playing multiple positions
and
One or Two LONG RELIEVERS in the bullpen (often these guys have ERA’s at 4.50+) ..

And those are the guys that fans say “SUCK” .. we’ll they don’t suck if they are playing in the majors.. but they aren’t AWESOME either .. they are guys in a role in the majors ..

we’ll have those same types of players this year.. and I’m really looking forward to reading all the negative posts in May, when Player-X is batting only 3-for-24 but gets used to pinch-run, play defense, and get random starts in Day games, after Night games

joedad: You could make a similar argument for Pedro Martinez… nobody wanted him… and he was just sitting there waiting for a team all season long (salary-wise there wasn’t that much of a difference between what Pedro got pro-rated and the league-minimum salary).

Maybe there was something else about Jenkins that we didn’t know? Injury?? But he was solid –even in 2008 and DESPITE Matt Stair’s historic moonshot– he was still the better bench player for this team.

I am relieved that Eric Bruntlett won’t be returning next season. I enjoy my men clean shaven…everywhere. Furthermore, Bruntlett was way to versatile of a player. You could put the man in almost any position. Nobody wants a player that can play almost every position. I just want a man that can play one position…catcher.

This is almost the perfect summary of my arguement, as to expectations:
From Andy Martino, Daily News…

…
“So here is what Amaro needs to find: A guy who can play shortstop, and is willing to accept a bench role, and can handle the bat well convince Manuel to use him.

One problem. That guy probably does not exist.

“If the ideal guy was there, he would be playing every day in the major leagues,” Amaro said. “The likelihood is not great that we’re going to find a guy who can hit enough and field enough. You’re going to have to make a sacrifice.”

So where will Amaro make that sacrifice? On offense, apparently. He is seeking someone who can play the difficult position of shortstop, and has played that position regularly. By cutting ties with Bruntlett, the Phils sacrificed their only player who could sub for Rollins if the shortstop were injured for a significant period of time.

“Shortstop is a specialized position, almost like catcher,” Amaro said. “You would err on getting defense over offense.”

That would seem to eliminate the following names from the super-utility hunt, among others who haven’t played much shortstop lately, if ever: Jamey Carroll and Ronnie Belliard.”

Thanks to the Beard for playing hard for two years. Good luck.
I think the Cards do it better than anyone – a few core guys, good starting pitching, then a bunch of role players. Bench players and the bullpen (with the exeption of closer) are usually filled with older players whose best days are behind them, guys with an injury history trying to make it back, or one dimensional players. The Phils have done a pretty good job with this over the past several years, even generating 2 all-stars (Werth and Vic), and getting one of the best single season pitch hitters ever.
I think Cairo is an upgrade over Bruntlett, could certainly live with him starting 3 or 4 times a month spelling Utley and Rollins. I thought I heard that Dobbs was injured to begin 2009. While I don’t expect a repeat of 2008, if back to health, feel good about him starting at first, third, and left here and there, the primary lefty pinch hitter, with Francisco the righty pinch hitter and 4th outfielder. Off the bench, all you really need is a lefty power bat.
The other hole remaining is another righty starter. Pedro wants to pitch another year, wouldn’t be a terrible signing. Start him once/week, with Moyer and Kendrick filling in the gaps. Won’t really help in OCt though. I’d still love to see Halladay in red pinstripes, and don’t think he’s going to cost all that much. Jays want to shed salary, and don’t want him in the AL east. Cubs and Dodgers are in a financial mess, and the Mets don’t have much to offer (unless they agree to take Well’s salary). Their finances aren’t strong either. Detroit has starting pitching, and the White Sox have too many holes to spend all their money on 1 guy. I think the Phils could get away with an mlb ready starter (Happ?) and an outfield prospect. The competition is probably limited to the Angels (unless they sign Lackey), the Rangers, and maybe the Braves. I have also heard on the 4 letter network that Halladay is looking for a 3 year deal, while Lee is looking at a Sanatana/Sabbathia type contract when this contract is up. Hamels and Halladay for 4 years, with 1 year of Lee looks pretty good, and may not break the bank.

“You would err on getting defense over offense.” EXACTLY. If you have to sacrifice a little offensively to get a guy who can adequately fill in for Jimmy and/or Chase defensively, so be it. I see Jeff (G) has put in his 2 cents, hope he has more than that to spend for Phils tickets if they increase the payroll and start spending $$$ like the Yanks. And Cole is not going anywhere this year, knock it off.

Omar Vizquel. VERY INTERESTING. Goes along with what Amaro said about defense over offense…. from MLB TRADE RUMORS:

“You could hardly think of two more dissimilar players than Omar Vizquel and Nick Johnson, but Evan Brunell of The Hardball Times took a look at where these two free agents may end up playing in 2010.

First, Vizquel. Brunell thinks that Vizquel’s desire to play for a higher-profile club than Texas may stem from the fact that playing for a big-market team may improve Vizquel’s chances of being voted into the Hall of Fame when his career is over. There’s also the fact that the 42-year-old shortstop would no doubt love to get another chance at a World Series title after coming so close with Cleveland in 1995 and 1997.

With these factors in mind, Brunell feels that Philadelphia is the ideal destination for Vizquel, as he can serve as a backup to Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley and whomever the Phillies get to play third base. Vizquel’s presence as a late-inning defensive replacement would also mean that the Phils could focus their third baseman search on finding a solid hitter, not necessarily a top gloveman.”

I find it hard to believe that the Phillies want to get themselves into a situation where they have both an OFFENSIVE and a DEFENSIVE 3b

If you get Beltre, he can play solid defense at 3b

…
Also on that page somewhere it said that multiple teams are interested in Mark DeRosa .. so the idea that we could get him cheap to be a Bench-Player should stop .. and he can’t play everyday at 3b .. so I think he should be officially off our radar

The more and more I think about it. Beltre is our guy. Has to be. Vizquel is long in the tooth. I want someone younger who can sub adequately defensively for extended periods of time if needed. He has to be able to hit better than bruntlett, but not necessarily that much better really. Because if he can hit well then he wouldnt be a backup.

Figgins is a good player, but not worth 10M a year. But if they feel taht they can afford it Im not opposed to him. However, WHEN Figgins loses his speed he will become a bad contract on the books. Be wary of that. DeRosa will get paid somewhere to start. Beltre is the guy for this team. He would slide right in confortable.

As far as a backup utility man, If he HAS to have played SS recently, why not bring in Juan Uribe? He can handle a glove still.

Figgins $$$ just isn’t going to happen. Todd Zalecki says the Phils are the favorite to land Derosa. If the Phils could land him for $10 million over 2 years why not? The combination of Derosa and Vizquel would give Charlie a ton of fleaibility. Derosa won’t need to play 150 games with Dobbs and Vizquel on the bench.

Can Endy Chavez field? Decent left handed hitter as a potential 5th outfielder.

Derosa and Uribe are both starters in their minds so I don’t see either as a utility player.

I like the idea of waiting on Halliday. It’ll be tough to outbid the Yanks and Sox $$$ wise but with Lee and Moyer’s money off the books that’s 17 million so going 3 years $60 million isn’t out of the question.

Don M, You are quite a Bruntlett apologist. Nobody but you has said that fans want bench players to hit .300. Most of us would be happy if he could just out-hit the pitchers he’s pinchhitting for. And make no mistake, although Bruntlett SHOULD have only been used for defensive emergencies, Manuel had him in the regular pinch-hitting role for much of his time here. He strikes out far too often to be used as a pinchhitter. (And don’t excuse him with the old “how’s he supposed to hit well if he doesn’t play much?” argument. Other players have done well as pinchhitting specialists over the years.) You would think a 2-time NL champion team could find sonmeone interested in filling that role here!

I think Derosa and Scutaro will comand pretty similiar salaires and years, I’d perfer Scutaro. Signing Scutaro would remove the need to find that light hitting solid middle INF for the bench instead sign a guy like Joe Crede to play occasionally. (which would hopefuly keep him healthy all year if he was only used twice a week)

Why could we not sign Lee to a 3 year extension this year. Is that so out of the question. That is what I would look for instead of paying Doc. Plus he will not make it to the off season, if he is not traded before the season starts the Jays will trade him at the deadline to get something for him. Lee Hamels Happ Blanton(one more year) then the #5 guy from Moyer, Kendrick, Bastardo, Pedro, Carpenter, or a guy like Lopez who pitched well until he got hurt. Then by 2011 Drebek.

Lee is said to be seeking AT LEAST a 5 year deal.. there have been reports that his agent will not give any home-town discounts, or discounts of any kind.. and that he will be seeking a CC Sabathia type contract

Those line ups are nice but you forget Charlie will not move JRoll out of the lead off, he will not hit 7th, That is one reason you will not see Figgins in Red Pinstripes. Get used to it, JRoll is the lead off hitter for 2010 and probably 2011.
The big reason you need a guy who can play once a week is because DeRosa, Beltre, or Feliz, need time off during the year as well as Utley. That is why if you can get Feliz to re sign for 4 million, you can use the extra 1.5 million you saved on a decent bench guy that can play infield for 50 or so games during the year. And fill in if injuries occur

“Manuel had him in the regular pinch-hitting role for much of his time here.”

Huh??…..Last I checked, last year Bruntlett’s primary role was filling in for Chase and being Pat Burrell’s late-inning defensive replacement….two roles where he did an adequete job.

I guess I’m “apologist” too but cut the guy some slack….he did what he was asked to do….without moaning or complaining….and did it with as much desire and hustle as anyone could in that role. Are there better options?? Sure, of course.

I appreciate what Eric Bruntlett did to contribute to this team and hope he has future success.

I still think if Lee pitches well in Philly and say they go deep into the playoffs again next year, I do not care what they are saying now, it will change, Even the Yankees only have so much money. Even though I do not think any pitcher should get a 5 year deal, I would give one to Lee against my better judgement.

Thing is….and I like J-Roll…..but are his numbers declining enough and will continue to do so to consider NOT bringing him back??….to free up payroll dollars….

My argument is… where are the priorities with payroll..??…with a Cy Young-type pitcher the likes of Cliff Lee or with the Jimmy Rollines and Chase Utleys and Ryan Howards??…Obviously, you can’t sign them all..

Don you have to have a little faith in the fact that maybe he likes playing here, and if they continue to via for a WS title every year he will stay. Not everyone is a money grubbing whore. I’ll give you Chase and Ryan, but JRoll will not cost an arm and a leg on his next contract, plus they may all give home town discount to be in the series every year don’t you think. I do not care that his agent is now saying there will be no home town discount, winning changes a lot of minds

This is the part I hate, you’re ruining the little fantasy I have going that Cliff Lee is the perfect man. I just fell in love with him this season, always looked forward to the games he started, and you knew you weren’t in for a 4 hour game, quick-hand Cliff is on the mound! The fact that he’s hot doesn’t hurt, oops, tmi. But now you’re telling me he’s just going to go with the team that gives him the biggest contract? I really thought he might be different and stay where he will be appreciated for his amazingness and always pitching to a full house with fans who support him 100%. Maybe you’re wrong Don, maybe he’ll tell his agent to stuff it, and give us a home town discount.

Hey for once I agree with Geoff, You have to try an lock him up for 3 and if you have to 5 years, I am not saying you trade JRoll or not resign him, I am just saying he will not be a top dollar guy in 2 years. Chase and Ryan will give home town discounts to a degree if they keep showing they are willing to pay to win, including locking up guys who are proven winners. I say you give Lee 3 years 55 million with an option for the 4th even if you go to 60 million it would be worth it, and the extra income from the playoffs will pay for it.

3yrs/60 mil with a 4th year option is a nice contract….will Lee take less than a guaranteed 5 years, though?…

Money has a way of getting to players…even Cliff Lee….and is he wrong for wanting to get the most he can??…

Hopefully, Ruben can get something done with him BEFORE the end of the season…because anything relatively close to the kind of season he had this year and his value skyrockets…to the point where he’s then unsignable.

Don you are missing the point what people say now does not mean anything, Ryan did not go to arbitration last year and up till he signed everyone out there was saying there is no doubt he is going to arbitration. Well he didn’t. If Cliff has a year like he did last year, you mean the guy that was in Cleveland, and the first 4 starts in Philly, or the guy who was very hittable in his next three starts, or his playoff run. I am no means dissing the man he was awesome and would love to see him in Philly for a long time. Just saying again even the Yankees and Red Sox only have so much money. And what an agent says in November really does not mean anything.
I say winning and being in a City that supports theirs team, and fills the ball park every f’in day can change some peoples minds.
So you can believe what you want. All I am saying is you got to try, and if you over pay a guy like Lee for the last year of a 5 year deal it is worth it, as long as you do not sell the farm along the way.

So 60 million or so for 3 years and anther 20 for four years is not going to set this guy and his familly up for life, where do you live Don. Plus he is 32 and unlike the steriod guys like Clemens and Petite, can this guy pitch till he is 38 or 40 at a 20 million dollar clip. Other than the Yankees, and Maybe the Red Sox I do not see many teams comiting that kind of money in the next few years for guys. Other than CC and AJ to the Yanks what team overed paid any player, even a pitcher.

Don, Again, I’m not sure you and I have watched the same Phillies season: In a World Series game, the Phillies were down by a few runs and Ruiz was on 1st. Who pinch=hit for the pitcher? BRUNTLETT. That is who Manuel turns to at an important point of an important game? BRUNTLETT?

Yes, playing everyday keeps a player in tune, but there are many guys who pinchhit that can maintain a .240 and above average. BRUNTLETT IS NOT ONE OF THEM!

All of your comments either excuse Bruntlett’s offensive shortcomings because he’s some kind of defensicve wizard (he’s not), or that a team should be satisfied with a 25th man that’s a Mendoza-line stiff that can merely avoid making errors in the field (not Bruntlett EITHER, as his 2 errors set up his triple-play opportunity). Maybe the Nationals should aspire to such a 25th man, but the Phillies can (and should) do better. Their starting 8 (7 anyway) are good, let’s now address the rpoblem of impotent pinchhitting.

If anyone has lots of time to listen while working.. its a very interesting discussion.. Stark touches on Polanco being a great-fit in terms of years and dollars, and he doesn’t strike out a lot, etc..

Chuck, you said:
“Huh??…..Last I checked, last year Bruntlett’s primary role was filling in for Chase and being Pat Burrell’s late-inning defensive replacement….two roles where he did an adequete job. ”

Filling in for Chase and Burrell? Chuck, that was 2008. Let’s get up to date. Bruntlett was horrible in 2009 in the roles Manuel had him in:

1. Occasional starts with multiple at-bats per game.
2. Pinch-hitting in crucial situations when better hitters were still on the bench.

Based on some descriptions by you guys here, this is how you characterized his 2009 role. It’s roles 1 & 2 where he (actually, ultimately Manuel) killed us.

I don’t fault Bruntlett for doing the best he can, and hanging around as long as he did. I fault Amaro & Manuel for having such a player on a Phillies roster this year. The Phillies of 1994-2005? Yes; The Nationals or Pirates? Yes; But a Phillies team of this calibre can to better (even with their 25th man!)

jman….what I said was LAST YEAR that’s what his primary role was…and he was fine LAST YEAR…

He had a different role this year and didn’t do as well….and I do agree that more at-bats and more playing time would have benefited him to the point that he would have hit at least .200…maybe higher..

yea I am going to listen to guy like Stark who is wrong more than he is right, and a bunch of talking heads in November on what may or may not happen in Feb. or March or for that matter June or July. I really do not think you give some of these guys credit, the total amount of a contract is not all they look at. Yea you got guys like A-Roid who blew out of Seattle for Texas for a gazillion dollars. But you also have guys that will leave 10 mil on the table to win, and be in a place they like and go to the playoffs every year. And not everyone wants to go to NY or can play in NY, Randy Johnson any one.
You put a good contract in front of the guy, that over pays him for the 4 and or 5 year of the contract and say sign if he says no so be it. Is there really that much difference between 85 mill and 100 mill. You want to go to just for 15 million of which you could never spend in your life time. Come some players have a little more heart and would rather win than that. I am not saying Lee will stay, but you have to give it a shot.
And it does make them greedy whore a$$holes if all they look at is the money.

Doesn’t that bother you.. the fact that you would have to OVERPAY for anyone

Wouldn’t it make so much more sense to get Halladay next year as a Free Agent? Especially since Halladay would balance the rotation, and would be much more willing to sign a contract that is team-friendly in YEARS and DOLLARS ??

I like how the “talking heads” are a former manager of our team.. and now a coach for the team we played in the NLCS the past two years

and a guy who used to pitch for the Phillies, then work for our AAA team, now covers the Phillies everyday as an analyst

these guys know more than the rest of us combined..

But you don’t want to pay any attention to what they say.. you spend time talking about YOUR ideas for next season, but you don’t think that their educated-opinions and ideas hold any weight? Interesting..

Lee is not signing an expension so let’s hope nobody gets Halladay in a deal so we can offer 3/60 next year. At his age that should get it done and it won’t kill the payroll with Lee and Moyer off the books.

What’s the status of verlander and Hernandez in 2011? Are they still under team control?

No it does not bother me to over pay a guy at the end of his contract if he brings titles and rings to the city in the begining of his contract. It is called paying for past perfromace. I would rather overpay a guy at the end then sign a kid to 8 years and pay someone who has done nothing for this team. My point about the talking heads is that is what they do they talk. And at this point in the year no one knows what anyone is thinking. Did Manny think he was getting a big deal last November YES, did he no, what he get one year with play option. That is the point it is November, so to say some team has no shot at re signing a guy or getting a FA is just that talk.

he’s also been a Free Agent before, and already had his MONSTER contract when he signed with the RedSox before

When guys get their first shot at Free Agency, they usually chase the money.. the fact that comments from his agent agree with that.. tell me that he’s not going to want to accept any contract for less than he feels he’s worth

And if I’m him.. I become a Free Agent, and tell the Phillies i’m still interested in playing in Philadelphia, if you are willing to pay me market value

Yo Manny…..I like your position on Cole…..Hey, we gotta think positive!!

booya!!!!!

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Seriously, I DO think he’ll rebound…maybe not to 2008 levels but probably MUCH better than 09….still….what to do with Lee is critical…if we can get him, fine…but everyone needs to realize what that will cost and whether or not that’s worth it moving forward.

We all still have stars in our eyes from his performance this year…..now reality sets in and that reality isn’t necessarily very attractive…..