OMCTO

IvCNuB4 wrote:You might want to check if some of your pages are stuck together. "Supergirl" has had numerous narratives and a multitude of flashbacks showing her life on Krypton and explaining how it has shaped and affected her in the present.

Granted she was inexplicably a dumb blonde through the entire "H'El On earth" arc

OMCTO

IvCNuB4 wrote:You might want to check if some of your pages are stuck together. "Supergirl" has had numerous narratives and a multitude of flashbacks showing her life on Krypton and explaining how it has shaped and affected her in the present.

Granted she was inexplicably a dumb blonde through the entire "H'El On earth" arc

Swedish Pinata of Death

chap22 wrote:No it's not. Hawkeye, Thor, DD, Hulk, the X-books, the Avengers books all still good. Nothing has been screwed up

Are the Avengers and X-books crossover-free? Because Cat's original complaint, the thing that is getting him "pissed off again" with comics is all the cross-title reading that we have to do to follow a story.

I've heard this same argument from my comic shop owner about DC. When I complained about all the events, he insisted that this Trinity War/Forever Evil garbage is "the first time" DC has done this with the New 52. I said, "What about Death of the Family, H'el on Earth, etc?" and he said, "Well those are just within a given family."

It seems like for some folks, if the crossover is within a related group of books or a family, it's "not really a crossover." Maybe that's true for some of you here. But for me, a crossover is a crossover -- because no matter how you slice it, the whole thing is still a gimmick by DC or Marvel to try and force my hand as a customer, and make me buy the books within that family that I am not reading. Maybe most people either read the whole family, or none of it, but I am not one of those people.

If Cat isn't either, then telling him to read X-books when he doesn't want to read books full of crossovers is counter-productive (as well as inaccurate).

Swedish Pinata of Death

chap22 wrote:No it's not. Hawkeye, Thor, DD, Hulk, the X-books, the Avengers books all still good. Nothing has been screwed up

Are the Avengers and X-books crossover-free? Because Cat's original complaint, the thing that is getting him "pissed off again" with comics is all the cross-title reading that we have to do to follow a story.

I've heard this same argument from my comic shop owner about DC. When I complained about all the events, he insisted that this Trinity War/Forever Evil garbage is "the first time" DC has done this with the New 52. I said, "What about Death of the Family, H'el on Earth, etc?" and he said, "Well those are just within a given family."

It seems like for some folks, if the crossover is within a related group of books or a family, it's "not really a crossover." Maybe that's true for some of you here. But for me, a crossover is a crossover -- because no matter how you slice it, the whole thing is still a gimmick by DC or Marvel to try and force my hand as a customer, and make me buy the books within that family that I am not reading. Maybe most people either read the whole family, or none of it, but I am not one of those people.

If Cat isn't either, then telling him to read X-books when he doesn't want to read books full of crossovers is counter-productive (as well as inaccurate).

Wrasslin' Fan

Chessack wrote:Are the Avengers and X-books crossover-free? Because Cat's original complaint, the thing that is getting him "pissed off again" with comics is all the cross-title reading that we have to do to follow a story.

I've heard this same argument from my comic shop owner about DC. When I complained about all the events, he insisted that this Trinity War/Forever Evil garbage is "the first time" DC has done this with the New 52. I said, "What about Death of the Family, H'el on Earth, etc?" and he said, "Well those are just within a given family."

It seems like for some folks, if the crossover is within a related group of books or a family, it's "not really a crossover." Maybe that's true for some of you here. But for me, a crossover is a crossover -- because no matter how you slice it, the whole thing is still a gimmick by DC or Marvel to try and force my hand as a customer, and make me buy the books within that family that I am not reading. Maybe most people either read the whole family, or none of it, but I am not one of those people.

If Cat isn't either, then telling him to read X-books when he doesn't want to read books full of crossovers is counter-productive (as well as inaccurate).

But that ignores Hawkeye and Daredevil, good examples of books that are on long runs with no crossovers what so ever. Both of which were also recommended by Chap and recommendations I personally agree with.

Wrasslin' Fan

Chessack wrote:Are the Avengers and X-books crossover-free? Because Cat's original complaint, the thing that is getting him "pissed off again" with comics is all the cross-title reading that we have to do to follow a story.

I've heard this same argument from my comic shop owner about DC. When I complained about all the events, he insisted that this Trinity War/Forever Evil garbage is "the first time" DC has done this with the New 52. I said, "What about Death of the Family, H'el on Earth, etc?" and he said, "Well those are just within a given family."

It seems like for some folks, if the crossover is within a related group of books or a family, it's "not really a crossover." Maybe that's true for some of you here. But for me, a crossover is a crossover -- because no matter how you slice it, the whole thing is still a gimmick by DC or Marvel to try and force my hand as a customer, and make me buy the books within that family that I am not reading. Maybe most people either read the whole family, or none of it, but I am not one of those people.

If Cat isn't either, then telling him to read X-books when he doesn't want to read books full of crossovers is counter-productive (as well as inaccurate).

But that ignores Hawkeye and Daredevil, good examples of books that are on long runs with no crossovers what so ever. Both of which were also recommended by Chap and recommendations I personally agree with.

Swedish Pinata of Death

I'm not ignoring them. The statement I quoted listed Avengers and X-Men as examples that "nothing has been screwed up" and another poster quoted that list, including those two series, and said that lots of Marvel books are stand-alones. Those two book groups are not stand-alones. That's all I was pointing out.

Swedish Pinata of Death

I'm not ignoring them. The statement I quoted listed Avengers and X-Men as examples that "nothing has been screwed up" and another poster quoted that list, including those two series, and said that lots of Marvel books are stand-alones. Those two book groups are not stand-alones. That's all I was pointing out.

Rain Partier

Chessack wrote:I'm not ignoring them. The statement I quoted listed Avengers and X-Men as examples that "nothing has been screwed up" and another poster quoted that list, including those two series, and said that lots of Marvel books are stand-alones. Those two book groups are not stand-alones. That's all I was pointing out.

The argument has shifted, though. The question I answered was whether we still had good books or not. I replied we did, and listed the Avengers and X-books. Yes, they are in a crossover right now. If you want to bitch about that forcing you to spend more, that's certainly your right. And it's a different argument. B/c not all crossovers are bad. And, IMMO, crossover or not, those two lines of books right now are still good books. Whereas the DC crossovers have been shit.

Rain Partier

Chessack wrote:I'm not ignoring them. The statement I quoted listed Avengers and X-Men as examples that "nothing has been screwed up" and another poster quoted that list, including those two series, and said that lots of Marvel books are stand-alones. Those two book groups are not stand-alones. That's all I was pointing out.

The argument has shifted, though. The question I answered was whether we still had good books or not. I replied we did, and listed the Avengers and X-books. Yes, they are in a crossover right now. If you want to bitch about that forcing you to spend more, that's certainly your right. And it's a different argument. B/c not all crossovers are bad. And, IMMO, crossover or not, those two lines of books right now are still good books. Whereas the DC crossovers have been shit.