(04-24-2012 08:47 PM)ricelynnevans75 Wrote: You're right, I can't prove what happened with your cards that you handled, only you can, and I don't see said proof. Just saying it does not make it true. You stated that you submitted 900 cards and that it gives you experience with cross overs? I'm curious exactly how many of those were crossovers.

Additionally, the bolded part above in your quote? You are aware that a PSA 10 is EQUAL to a BGS 9.5 correct? Being that they are both a Gem Mint grade?

Not sure exactly how many but more that the average submitter. 1-5 per submission maybe? I've seen my share...

And your rational of a PSA 10 and a BGS 9.5 being equal is definitely nothing more than your opinion. I find it hysterical. What PSA grade is equal to a BGS 10? PSA 10.5? You can call them both super gem mint, their still not the same. As a buyer I'll pay at least twice BV for a BGS 10, maybe below BV for a PSA 10. I get the same kind of responses when selling. Everyone knows that the PSA 10 could very well be a BGS 9.

(04-24-2012 07:52 PM)ricelynnevans75 Wrote: Oh, I know you're lying about it. When you "know" information and withhold it when asked, that's deceit. What better way to show how great and "strict" BGS is compared to the others right? You'd be posting something like that all the time talking about the card if it was legit. You're full of it, nothing new.

As it is, there are only five cards that it could possibly be anyway. There are only five Nolan Ryan cards that have been graded an SGC 100 in which BGS has graded some a BGS 9.5.

de·ceit

noun /diˈsēt/
deceits, plural

The action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth
- a web of deceit

A dishonest act or statement

Deceitful disposition or character
- I can't stand your treachery and deceit

Your comments and accusations are completely out of line. Nolan has done nothing to deserve the disrespect your giving him. Your choice of words and plan of attack show a real lack of character. Accept the fact that this is a forum and folks are supposed to have different opinions on the same subject. You don't have to start attacking everyone. Your opinion isn't necessarily the correct answer, it's just how YOU see things. Nothing more.

(04-24-2012 11:13 PM)giantfan270 Wrote: Not sure exactly how many but more that the average submitter. 1-5 per submission maybe? I've seen my share...

And your rational of a PSA 10 and a BGS 9.5 being equal is definitely nothing more than your opinion. I find it hysterical. What PSA grade is equal to a BGS 10? PSA 10.5? You can call them both super gem mint, their still not the same. As a buyer I'll pay at least twice BV for a BGS 10, maybe below BV for a PSA 10. I get the same kind of responses when selling. Everyone knows that the PSA 10 could very well be a BGS 9.

Your comments and accusations are completely out of line. Nolan has done nothing to deserve the disrespect your giving him. Your choice of words and plan of attack show a real lack of character. Accept the fact that this is a forum and folks are supposed to have different opinions on the same subject. You don't have to start attacking everyone. Your opinion isn't necessarily the correct answer, it's just how YOU see things. Nothing more.

Tell me what the assigned grade of a PSA 10 is as well as the assigned grade of a BGS 9.5. You see? Same thing. Each company gave the card same grade, but you're saying it's different? To sit here and talk about how one is better than the other and you don't even understand the grades of the companies you're talking about is laughable.

Exactly, this is a forum to discuss things. Am I not allowed to ask people to back up their statements with supporting items or facts? Am I just supposed to take people's statements as fact? I guess that means I'm attacking someone if they cannot back up their statements? That's some sound logic and a typical card that people will play to divert the discussion away from the fact they can't support their claims. I've got no problems with people's opinions and have stated as such many times in the past. I could care less about what grading company anybody uses, as I've said many times in the past. It's all personal choice for different reasons. However, when people want to state their opinion as fact, I'll ask them to support it. If they can't, well, you know what that means.

I'm sure Nolan doesn't need you running to his defense, especially when he called me out for no good reason what so ever and has made more than a few condescending/snide posts in the past. But hey, THAT'S alright since he's a fellow BGS fanboy so do what you must. Additionally, I wouldn't be talking about character when, in another thread, you started insulting another user's wife. I can pull the link if you'd like. Regardless, that's not the point of this thread anyway.

(04-25-2012 06:09 AM)ricelynnevans75 Wrote: Tell me what the assigned grade of a PSA 10 is as well as the assigned grade of a BGS 9.5. You see? Same thing. Each company gave the card same grade, but you're saying it's different? To sit here and talk about how one is better than the other and you don't even understand the grades of the companies you're talking about is laughable.

Exactly, this is a forum to discuss things. Am I not allowed to ask people to back up their statements with supporting items or facts? Am I just supposed to take people's statements as fact? I guess that means I'm attacking someone if they cannot back up their statements? That's some sound logic and a typical card that people will play to divert the discussion away from the fact they can't support their claims. I've got no problems with people's opinions and have stated as such many times in the past. I could care less about what grading company anybody uses, as I've said many times in the past. It's all personal choice for different reasons. However, when people want to state their opinion as fact, I'll ask them to support it. If they can't, well, you know what that means.

I'm sure Nolan doesn't need you running to his defense, especially when he called me out for no good reason what so ever and has made more than a few condescending/snide posts in the past. But hey, THAT'S alright since he's a fellow BGS fanboy so do what you must. Additionally, I wouldn't be talking about character when, in another thread, you started insulting another user's wife. I can pull the link if you'd like.

1. When you submit 1000 cards, you let me know. I forgot more about grading than most will ever know.

2. Supporting your opinion is fine, ridicule is out of line. (BGS fanboy comments and the like) Nolan has always been more than courteous to me and everyone else I know one the site. He doesn't deserve that. No one does. If he called you out I'm sure he had good reason. He doesn't pick fights. And BTW, he did thank me for saying you were out of line and rude.

3. I supported my opinion with fact and actual examples, and you still don't accept it. Seems you don't want to do anything but argue your view is the only way to look at it. Your right, were all wrong. I get it. Now, I ask you for proof. Show me a PSA 10 that came back BGS 10. If you can do that I'll send you a $20 bill, no questions asked. You can't and you never will be able to. If you do I'll apologize and be shocked.

4. I'm never proud of getting ugly with another member, but if my honesty and integrity is called into question, I'd do it again, no questions asked. My rebuttal to dumb, is stupid.

Lets be done with this and move on like big boys. Your not going to change your mind or anyone else's mind.

(04-25-2012 07:47 AM)giantfan270 Wrote: 1. When you submit 1000 cards, you let me know. I forgot more about grading than most will ever know.

2. Supporting your opinion is fine, ridicule is out of line. (BGS fanboy comments and the like) Nolan has always been more than courteous to me and everyone else I know one the site. He doesn't deserve that. No one does. If he called you out I'm sure he had good reason. He doesn't pick fights. And BTW, he did thank me for saying you were out of line and rude.

3. I supported my opinion with fact and actual examples, and you still don't accept it. Seems you don't want to do anything but argue your view is the only way to look at it. Your right, were all wrong. I get it. Now, I ask you for proof. Show me a PSA 10 that came back BGS 10. If you can do that I'll send you a $20 bill, no questions asked. You can't and you never will be able to. If you do I'll apologize and be shocked.

4. I'm never proud of getting ugly with another member, but if my honesty and integrity is called into question, I'd do it again, no questions asked. My rebuttal to dumb, is stupid.

Lets be done with this and move on like big boys. Your not going to change your mind or anyone else's mind.

1. The number keeps getting higher and I still question your knowledge when you are unaware that a BGS 9.5 and a PSA 10 are both Gem Mint.

2. You apparently (and conveniently) missed his post where he mentioned me earlier in the thread. Can't say I'm surprised. I didn't say he picked fights, I said he makes condescending and snide comments to those that think/believe differently than he does. If that's fine in your book, by all means, have at it. And of course he's going to say that, do you think he'd send a PM and say otherwise? If he doesn't like it, he shouldn't give it out to others. I'm certain he's familiar with the phrase "Do to others as you would have them do"?

3. Again, just saying something does not make it fact. Especially when they are broad and general statements. I can't say I've argued my way is right and yours is wrong either. Can you locate where I said that? I've simply asked for proof to backup claims and have yet to see it. Being that my job revolves around presenting evidence to support a claim, I think I know very well what proof/evidence/supporting items are. A blanket statement on the internet is not.

Never said I was trying to change anyone's mind and if you've ever paid attention to these boards, you would know my stance on grading which is pretty liberal and I've stated it more than a few times. Of course, unless I'm saying that grading company XXX is the best and everyone else is more lenient (still no proof on that one) or not as reliable, nobody pays attention.

I gave you proof. That's how I got started in this thread. You refuse to accept it. Two different stories.

I'll go at it again, nice and slow.

I HAVE submitted a good amount of PSA to BGS crossovers. At least 20-25.
NEVER ONCE HAS THE BGS GRADE COME BACK EQUAL TO, OR HIGHER THAN THE PSA GRADE. They always come back lower. Sometimes, PSA 10's come back as BGS 9's.

That my friend is evidence.

This would make anyone that graded a large number of cards realize BGS is a stricter grader. Again, I'm not talking about vintage. That is not my thing.

You never addressed my request for proof on your part. Show me one PSA 10 that came back BGS 10, if you feel they are so equivalent. Just one.

(04-25-2012 08:56 AM)giantfan270 Wrote: I gave you proof. That's how I got started in this thread. You refuse to accept it. Two different stories.

I'll go at it again, nice and slow.

I HAVE submitted a good amount of PSA to BGS crossovers. At least 20-25.
NEVER ONCE HAS THE BGS GRADE COME BACK EQUAL TO, OR HIGHER THAN THE PSA GRADE. They always come back lower. Sometimes, PSA 10's come back as BGS 9's.

That my friend is evidence.

This would make anyone that graded a large number of cards realize BGS is a stricter grader. Again, I'm not talking about vintage. That is not my thing.

You never addressed my request for proof on your part. Show me one PSA 10 that came back BGS 10, if you feel they are so equivalent. Just one.

I don't know how strong your case is, jury's out....

That's not evidence, that's you simply saying something. Evidence would be before/after photos, or something along those lines. Similar to when someone says they pulled card X out of a pack and nobody believes them unless they post a picture. Same thing. I can say that I just physically picked up my car. It certainly doesn't make it true just because I typed it on here.

AND, I never said anything about a PSA 10 coming back as a BGS 10 OR that a PSA 10 is the equivalent of a BGS 10 as they are two completely different grades. I'd love for you to show me where I said this. What I said, is that a PSA 10 came back as a BGS 9.5, which came from another poster who submitted a card in your group submission. Previously, you said that you've never had a card come back the same or higher. Well my friend, are you telling me that a PSA 10 and BGS 9.5 are not Gem Mint grades?

(04-25-2012 09:17 AM)ricelynnevans75 Wrote: That's not evidence, that's you simply saying something. Evidence would be before/after photos, or something along those lines. Similar to when someone says they pulled card X out of a pack and nobody believes them unless they post a picture. Same thing. I can say that I just physically picked up my car. It certainly doesn't make it true just because I typed it on here.

AND, I never said anything about a PSA 10 coming back as a BGS 10 OR that a PSA 10 is the equivalent of a BGS 10 as they are two completely different grades. I'd love for you to show me where I said this. What I said, is that a PSA 10 came back as a BGS 9.5, which came from another poster who submitted a card in your group submission. Previously, you said that you've never had a card come back the same or higher. Well my friend, are you telling me that a PSA 10 and BGS 9.5 are not Gem Mint grades?

(04-25-2012 10:16 AM)giantfan270 Wrote: 9.5 is not BGS's top grade. And I don't lie.

Did I say a BGS 9.5 was BGS's top grade? Did I say anywhere that you said this? Can you show me where I said this?

You said you never had a PSA card cross over to BGS in an equal or higher grade. Fine. Yet you acknowledge that someone who submitted a card through your submission received a BGS 9.5 on crossover that was a PSA 10.

(04-25-2012 10:51 AM)ricelynnevans75 Wrote: Did I say a BGS 9.5 was BGS's top grade? Did I say anywhere that you said this? Can you show me where I said this?

You said you never had a PSA card cross over to BGS in an equal or higher grade. Fine. Yet you acknowledge that someone who submitted a card through your submission received a BGS 9.5 on crossover that was a PSA 10.

A BGS 9.5 and a PSA 10 are both Gem Mint correct?

Your hung up on this "gem mint" thing. It's just a phrase. It has no meaning other than an indicator of the condition. The grade is what holds the value. And I never quoted you.

I'm saying; a BGS 10 is a better grade than a PSA 10. Again, in my opinion.

Believe me the submitter of the PSA 10 would of much rather had it come back BGS 10, but it did not. So I say, they hit it right on the head. The card doesn't warrant a BGS 10. In PSA's eye's it's a perfect card. In BGS's eye's it is not. 2+2=4.

(04-25-2012 11:11 AM)giantfan270 Wrote: Your hung up on this "gem mint" thing. It's just a phrase. It has no meaning other than an indicator of the condition. The grade is what holds the value. And I never quoted you.

I'm saying; a BGS 10 is a better grade than a PSA 10. Again, in my opinion.

Believe me the submitter of the PSA 10 would of much rather had it come back BGS 10, but it did not. So I say, they hit it right on the head. The card doesn't warrant a BGS 10. In PSA's eye's it's a perfect card. In BGS's eye's it is not. 2+2=4.

So you're saying that "gem mint" is not a condition and is just a phrase? Ummmm............

I'm sure he would have loved for it to come back a 10 as I'm sure everybody who crosses over hopes for a bump. In PSA's eyes, the card is Gem Mint. In BGS's eyes, the card is Gem Mint. Hence, it came back the same grade correct?

Did you not say that you've never submitted a card where the PSA crossover did not equal out to or grade higher with BGS? Did the owner of the PSA Gem Mint card not receive a BGS Gem Mint card back? Those are the two questions you seem to be avoiding.