A homebrew "Changing Breeds" creation set that I need input on; it's mostly for NPCs as I lack the Changing Breeds sourcebook, but I might put it to use for PCs. Took the values for forms from Werewolf: the Forsaken, nerfing a couple and trying to create better multi-form balance. If anyone could crit these, I'd appreciate it.

Shapeshifter Forms:

Human - Regular human form. -2 dice to detect as supernatural.

Near-Human - Human form with minor supernatural characteristics, such as fangs, pointed ears, animal eyes, etc. Add +1 to the two attributes that are highest in your beast form, -1 from manipulation, +1 or -1 Size depending on your Size in your beast form. (+1 for sizes 5 and above, -1 for Sizes 4 and below.)

War Form - Anthropomorphic beast/human hybrid. Add +3, +2 and +1 to your highest, second-highest and third-highest attributes in beast form, respectively. -2 or +2 to your Size depending on your Size in your beast form (-2 for 4 or below, +2 for 5 or above); +1 Initiative, +2 or +3 Speed depending on your Strength rating in your beast form (higher than human means +2, lower means +3), +2 or +4 to Health depending on your Size in beast form (+2 to 5 or higher, +4 to 4 or lower), +2 or +1 to Perception depending on your Wits in your beast form (+3 if lower than human, +1 if higher than human). Manipulation is at 0.

Near-Beast - Exaggerated and/or mythologized version of your beast form. Add +2 to your three highest attributes in beast form, -3 Manipulation. Size is -1 or +1 depending on your Size in beast form, +1 or +3 Health depending on your Size in beast form, +2 Initiative, +3 or +4 Speed depending on your Strength in beast form, +2 or +1 to Perception depending on your Wits in your beast form. Use the higher of Wits or Dexterity as Defence.

Beast - Animal/creature form. Add +2 and +1 to your highest and second-highest attribute, respectively. Adjust Size to fit beast form, ST permission needed for forms that have more than +2 or -2 to the Size of the human form. Initiative is +2, recalculate Speed. Add +2 or +3 to perception rolls depending on your Wits level in beast form. Use the higher of Wits or Dexterity as Defence. -2 dice to detect as a supernatural.

Not having Changing Breeds isnt a bad thing. The book is pretty much a insult to White-Wolf's standard quality. It's kinda like Highlander 2. We pretend it doesnt exist. You're better off using Skinchangers or the mechanics provided in the back of the Werewolf book War Against the Pure for creating other changing breeds.

The default for most War forms is defined as :

You have six bonus dice to split among Strength, Dexterity and Stamina. At least a +1 die modifier must be applied to each (meaning that no modifier can go above +4). The form also gains +2 Size, +2 Perception and innate armor (1/1). Adjust all Advantages (Defense, Health, Initiative, Speed) in accordance to the bonuses granted to Physical Attributes. Claws, teeth, talons, beaks all cause lethal damage in this form.

Near-Man:This form gains +1 to two Physical Attributes chosen. The two bonuses chosen may not be changed after the initial purchase. Size goes up by +1, and Perception goes up by +1. Note that other advantages (Initiative, Health, Speed and Defense) may change with the bonuses granted to Physical Attributes.

Animal/Beast form is:

The animal form gets +3 bonus dice to split among the Physical Attributes. They can be split in any way desired; an Attribute does not require that it receive any bonus at all (and so, a full +3 bonus can be granted to a singular Attribute). The animal should become a Size approximately equal to that of the animal (example: owl 2, vulture 3, lion 6). The animal form gains a +3 bonus to all Perception rolls. Adjust all Advantages (Defense, Health, Initiative, Speed) in accordance to the bonuses granted to Physical Attributes. In many cases, too, bonuses may correlate to Size.

Health, for sake of game balance, shouldn’t drop more than one for those shapechangers that lose Size in their animal forms.

For beast and near-beast forms, to reflect the animalistic nature of those forms, I had it with like animals in nWoD where the higher of Wits or Dexterity is used for Defence. Is that too much of a balance breaker if Defence values changed like that in those forms?

For beast and near-beast forms, to reflect the animalistic nature of those forms, I had it with like animals in nWoD where the higher of Wits or Dexterity is used for Defence. Is that too much of a balance breaker if Defence values changed like that in those forms?

shape-changers never automatically get this trait in NWoD. Skinchangers and Uratha either require a specific aspect (for skinchangers) or gifts and merits (in the case of Uratha. The same goes for Gangrel vampires whom must take the red surrender.

The reason for this mechanics and game play is by applying the rule of the lowest of wits of dexterity, you prevent abuses of defense builds in combat. Fluff wise it's because animals are attuned to their senses and bodies at an intuitive level that humans aren't inherently. An Uratha in wolf form isn't a wolf, he's a Uratha in wolf form with the mind and thought process of a human. If he is to learn how to react like an animal, he must learn specific reactions and skills (hence taking the appropriate ability separately, purchased with EXP)

Now, this might be a silly question, but for a game taking inspiration from cWoD's Bygone Bestiary...is it possible to apply to these mechanics to shapeshifters, who, say, have beast forms that are certain mythological creatures from D&D?

Is it possible? Sure. Best way to go about it however? I will probably have to get back to you. I'm not familiar with the older book so I'll have to pull out out of my PDF vault and check the specifics before I can advise.

Just to clarify, I'm not looking to use Bygone Bestiary mechanics on these shapeshifters, but rather, if mythological creatures could work within the system without breaking it because of possible optional abilities.

Now, this might be a silly question, but for a game taking inspiration from cWoD's Bygone Bestiary...is it possible to apply to these mechanics to shapeshifters, who, say, have beast forms that are certain mythological creatures from D&D?

sure, you can use skin-changers as a base for mythological beasts, thought personally I'd suggest using Predators and Book of Spirits as well.