What is the deal with all the RVD love? I saw him in ECW. He sucked then too. A 4 year old can do forward tumble rolls. Let's see, what else does he bring? Kick someone holding a chair, jump off the apron and drop your leg on the guy hanging on the rail, bust people open with your sloppy punches and kicks...blah, blah,blah... frogsplash. I just don't get it. It may have something to do with being male but I am also sick of seeing close-ups of his taint sweat through those little airbrushed leotard thingies but that's just me. I guess I am trying to figure out how he is so over with the target male demographic. And that is just with the marks. What really baffles me is reading posts about how he is being held down along with the likes of guys like Benoit, Jericho and Booker T. It kills me when someone tries to make a point about guys being held down and throw his name in. Again, I just don't get it.

I would give him some credit for crushing the throat of Mr. 20 min. promo but since we get Shawn as a replacement I can't even give him that.

RVD just has that charisma, athleticism, and unorthodox style that makes people like him. Watch the reaction he gets from the crowd and you will see that you are in the small minority with your dislike of his style. That doesn't mean that you're wrong, just that you have different tastes.

I'm not a big fan of RVD's flippy floppy crap but I wasn't a fan of Hogan's crap in the 80's either.

You can crap on RVD's work all you want but he's one of the most over guys on the roster. People wanna see Rob Van Dam and that's why he gets mentioned with the guys being held down. Last night's show was built around him and the ratings proved people are interested in RVD, Booker and Jericho. Those guys are the ones RAW should be built around. But hey, I'm just a cynical smark who looks too deeply into things, right?

Shin Strife says...Well...he's a great. He's comparable with a young Shawn Micheals,not quite as Mic talented yet,and a high spot machine who with time will be a great? Why,because in my opinoin he can be that dam good.

Plus he just has the charisma too. He has the tools...and he decide to combine them to create the Van Daminator instead of something else

(ranting stops...now)

Mattitude(ma't-e-toodeh'): Mattitude, is something that can not be taught or learned. Mattitude is something that burns within. In the ring, Mattitude is the intangible, the x-factor, that gives Matt Hardy Ver.1 an advantage over everyone else.

Me, I dislike RVD because his offense looks fake. All those flippy kicks, froggy splashes and rolls don't look like they hurt at all. Even his regular kicks, punches and forearms look like a child is throwing them. RVD is agile and innovative, but his offense is boring as heck.

I can't explain why I like RVD; I just know I do. People talk about wrestlers having "It". Whatever "It" is, he has it in spades. If you could combine his "It"ness with benoit's ringwork/intensity with Angle's promo skills you'd have a helluva main-eventer.

Charisma? Well, maybe phyiscal charisma. His mic skills are pretty piss poor. I refer to him as Rob...Can't...Act when he points to himself.I can understand why people love him, since his acrobatics are pretty impressive for a big guy to pull off. As far as being a wrestler, I'd say he's about average. He can certainly hold his own, but he masks a lot of his weaknesses with flips/kicks. I will say I'm curious to see how he looks with Shawn next week, since HBK will probably sell his kicks like he's dead.

Originally posted by JacksonWhat is the deal with all the RVD love? I saw him in ECW. He sucked then too. A 4 year old can do forward tumble rolls. Let's see, what else does he bring? Kick someone holding a chair, jump off the apron and drop your leg on the guy hanging on the rail, bust people open with your sloppy punches and kicks...blah, blah,blah... frogsplash. I just don't get it.

I don't disagree with your point that you don't like RVD, he's boring, whatever. That is your opinion, and that's fine if you think that way. I don't expect everybody to love him.

However, one thing I strongly disagree with you on is the fact that a 4-year old can do his tumble rolls. Hate him all you want, but please don't question the man's athletic ability. He is an incredibly gifted high flyer, regardless of shitty forearms and bad psychology.

Anybody with basic gymnastics training *can* do all of RVD's moves. Hell, it's been nearly 20 years since the last time I took a gymnastics class and I'm pretty sure I could pull off a Rolling Thunder, albeit not as pretty as his since I'm out of practice. What else, the somersault into the corner? I'm sure that helps his momentum tremendously. Frog splash? Doesn't exactly require a lot of athleticism, other than for distance, and even then it's not that hard to do. Flipping out to the floor? Saw several dozen idiots do that on backyard wrestling, so I know that requires absolutely no talent.

Rob Van Dam is certainly a great athlete, but he sure doesn't show it much in his in-ring performance. I remember when ECW first appeared on TNN and I was excited to watch it after hearing so much about it on the 'net. The 2 shows I managed to catch were more than 50% RVD vs. Jerry Lynn matches and were some of the most boring crap I've ever seen. It was like watching 2 jobbers go at it on WCW Saturday Night except instead of being paid for the victory, they were paid to see who could execute the most high spots in a single match. Better than the first time I saw ECW, though, where the match was so fake looking that I thought it was supposed to be a comedy fed like GLOW was back in the 80s.

I digress, though. Van Dam does have charisma, he just doesn't have any personality. He stated that you shouldn't confuse peace of mind for lack of intensity, but I add that you shouldn't confuse brain damage for peace of mind. If RVD had an extended run as champ, I honestly believe I would be bored enough to stop watching again.

I hope that was meant as sarcasm. Storm's technically proficient, but as far as his offense looks, he'd be better off throwing balls of wadded-up tissue. His moveset is uninteresting -- how much more generic can you get than having a superkick and a one-leg Boston crab for your finishers? -- and his strikes are so weak I wouldn't be surprised to see Spike Dudley no-sell them. He's Benoit without the speed, intensity, or stiffness ... which is to say, not much of anything. (Guess who got one of my votes for Most Overrated this year?)

As for RVD, I agree that a lot of his offense -- particularly his forearms and those low kicks he's started using -- needs work. What I like about him, though, is that his style is markedly different from that of most other people on the roster. He doesn't work the generic punch-kick-spinebuster style that's dominated the main events for several years now. He's got an immediately recognizable flair, and I think that's what people respond to in him.

Aserje ja de je de jebe tude jebere sebiunouba majabi an de bugui an de buididipi!

Originally posted by InVerseAnybody with basic gymnastics training *can* do all of RVD's moves. Hell, it's been nearly 20 years since the last time I took a gymnastics class and I'm pretty sure I could pull off a Rolling Thunder, albeit not as pretty as his since I'm out of practice. What else, the somersault into the corner? I'm sure that helps his momentum tremendously. Frog splash? Doesn't exactly require a lot of athleticism, other than for distance, and even then it's not that hard to do. Flipping out to the floor? Saw several dozen idiots do that on backyard wrestling, so I know that requires absolutely no talent.

Once again, have to disagree here....Sure, anybody with gymnastics training can do a roll, but can they flip over and land on somebody without killing them? That's part of his ability that separates him from the rest of the 'gymnastics' people. Frog Splash? It does require athleticism, check out his height. I dare your average "Joe Gymnastic" to hit at move like that.

The point is, anybody can roll around, just not in a wrestling ring with an opponent to land on. That's why he's more impressive than a 6th grader in the school gym.

You say he's a great athlete, but he doesn't show it...what should he do to show it?

Originally posted by InVerseAnybody with basic gymnastics training *can* do all of RVD's moves. Hell, it's been nearly 20 years since the last time I took a gymnastics class and I'm pretty sure I could pull off a Rolling Thunder, albeit not as pretty as his since I'm out of practice. What else, the somersault into the corner? I'm sure that helps his momentum tremendously. Frog splash? Doesn't exactly require a lot of athleticism, other than for distance, and even then it's not that hard to do. Flipping out to the floor? Saw several dozen idiots do that on backyard wrestling, so I know that requires absolutely no talent.

Once again, have to disagree here....Sure, anybody with gymnastics training can do a roll, but can they flip over and land on somebody without killing them?

I got interested in Van Dam when the invasion started because he had this grass roots-like movement of fan support for him. After his two PPV matches with Jeff Hardy at Invasion and Summerslam he was solidly over and there seemed to be a groundswell of support for him to take on Austin for the belt. I still think the WWE missed a great opportunity to capitalize on that. In the last 2 years, no new WWE performer has been more over than RVD. I wasn't around for Jericho's WWE introduction, but I hear that was comparable.

I think there are a couple of reasons for this. Van Dam can fly around like a cruiser, but he's stocky enough to mix it up with the main eventers. His promo skills are lacking, yes, but when he's given material that fits his character, like his fun "You can sure spit water" promo on HHH, he can come across as funny and confident. I think fans take to him because he's got a very Gen-X laid back attitude, but he's extremely talented. He does more than punch, kick and hit his finisher. I mentor a 9-year-old kid and I overheard his friends talking about their favorite wrestlers at a birthday party. I asked them who they liked and almost every one of them named Van Dam (one of them was a HHH mark).

His moveset is getting monotonous, though. You can make a list of 5-6 spots that he's guaranteed to hit throughout a match. But it seems like he's working on throwing better punches and has added things like the monkeyflip, so he might be freshening things up.

He's been knocked for his psychology and hurting people. Both are valid. He'll regularly take a 20 minute beating from the likes of Benoit, then will promptly pop up, hit a rolling thunder and a frog splash. He's also gotten notorious for busting people open, it seems. But I don't think that Sunday's mishap was his fault. HHH was way too close to the turnbuckle and RVD had no room to elevate on his splash. Here's hoping that he doesn't get "punished" for what looked like an accident.

What's keeping RVD from main-eventing PPV's (I think), is that lack of psychology and bad promos. But I think if he fixes those, he could be a huuuuge star. The fan support is still there (his pops seemed comparable to HBKs at the PPV) and he's got all the other tools. Which is good, because the WWE needs that big breakout star right now.

On the night that WCW and ECW “merged” to form the Alliance, all WCW/ECW Superstars were pushed as heels against the face WWF Superstars. And for the most part, the fans booed the WCW/ECW Superstars and cheered the WWF Superstars.

But there were two exceptions to that rule. The fans were resistant to any attempt to push X-Pac as a face (booing him at InVasion against Billy Kidman, for example), and the fans were equally resistant to the WWF's attempts to push Rob Van Dam as a heel.

Why is that? After all, coming in, RVD was definitely a heel. At InVasion, the Hardyz were having a backstage conversation when RVD came out of nowhere and blindsided Matt Hardy with a chair. As he walked away, RVD pointed at Jeff and said, “You're next!” The Hardyz were definitely the faces at that point.

But listen to the crowd reaction for even the earliest RVD matches in the WWF. Can you hear the R-V-D chants? I know it wasn't just the ECW Mutants who were chanting for him, because all the other ECW guys got heel reactions. So what caused them to cheer RVD (and everyone wrestling against X-Pac) but boo every other Alliance guy?

It has to be a reflection on how much ass RVD kicks, doesn't it? Some people may scoff at his “flippy gymnastic moves that any 4-year-old could do”, but the fact that his style is unorthodox is exactly what makes it interesting to watch. And have you seen the height he achieves on a Five-Star Frog Splash? He gets up so high that when he finally lands on his opponent, he bounces off him slightly!

However, because of irregular booking, RVD (while still one of the most popular guys on the roster) appears to have been overtaken by Booker T in popularity. Booker T is charismatic and funny, and has tremendous ability in the ring. Plus he's got the spinarooni! According to a few reports from Survivor Series, people seemed to boo RVD when he was wrestling Booker T. But I suppose that's all right with me, because I like Booker T better as well, and Booker has been booked better as of late.

But RVD's popularity can not be underestimated. When one is booked as a heel but cheered like a face, you know you've got a special person on your hands.

I've been sold on RVD since he hit the plancha (or whatever move it was) on Bigelow when he won the ECW TV title. (If you have never seen this highlight, RVD went from the top turnbuckle with a somersault plancha on to Bigelow who was about 3 rows deep in the crowd.) And I love the looks of the Van Daminator (I'm not as sold on the Van Terminator).

I think he does have some mic skills that he hasn't been able to utilize in WWE. He seems best as the classic cocky heel. Some of his best mic work in WWE has been from this same vein. (Ragging on HHH's water spitting talents for example.)

Ultimately, does it matter that some like him and others don't? Of course not. The WWE presents different wrestlers with different personalities in order to meet a variety of tastes. That's why many people like the Hardys, or HHH, or the Rock, etc. If I don't enjoy someone, no big deal, but no matter how hard someone tries to convince me someone they like is great, if I don't like them, no amount of convincing in the world will change my mind.

RVD needs a little... something. As he is now, he is not Champion material.What he needs is a hell turn.Think about it- an RVD heel = Stone Cold.Yeah.. a tweenerish-heel who cares about nothing or no one. RVD as a face, right now, does nothing for me. He needs a little more- brutality. With a heel turn and a little work, RVD could be the Stone Cold of a few years ago. I do not know why no one else seems to see this...

PB, do you think the marks would buy RVD as a heel? They refused to during the invasion angle. Of course, if they could get people to boo Stone Cold, I guess they could do it with anyone. RVD's offense just seems to lend itself to a good guy.

His offense does lend him to be a face but it's the way he acts in the ring that can change the fans reaction to him. Picture the showing off RVD already does and multiply that by an insane amount and you've got heel RVD. He's not as intense as heel scsa. I would say RVD is more of a narcisist who can go in the ring.