BlackLegion wrote:Maybe the Shaltari wanted to punish the Humans because they didn't want to wage their wars? "You don't want to fight and die for us? Well then be Scourge-fodder."

That's a possibility, or...

Creeping Dementia wrote:Perhaps they were planning on humanity losing, but were hoping for a fight that would leave the Scourge in worse shape than actually occurred.

I think, overall, you've got it a bit off, CD, (or did in your OP), at least the way that I'm interpreting it is that the Shaltari have thrown Humans in the path of the Scourge in another (third) attempt to wipe out the Scourge once and for all. They keep trying, sacrificing any other species than themselves, until the two warring sides (Scourge and, this time, Humans) are so decimated by their conflict that whatever remains can simply be "swept away". That eliminates the Scourge as a threat to the Shaltari (and any other species the Shaltari want to subjugate for their own purposes) and eliminates Humans as a way of "punishing" them for not being the Shaltari's lackeys. It also eliminates Humans as a potential future threat to the Shaltari themselves.

The Shaltari had been watching the Humans for a long time. Then we venture out into the stars, bumbling along, and they make contact. They (the Friends, aka the Aztecs) see us as great cannon fodder in their conflict with the other tribes. We're war-like in our own right, and very prolific, if somewhat short-lived by Shaltari standards. So they spoon feed us the Cradle Worlds which allow us to procreate like the mad rabbits that we are. But then we reject them. "Fine", says they, and just leave. Really? Well, I think the Aztecs may have sent the Scourge our way to A) punish us for our insolence, and B) because they see us as a great way to try their great "exterminate the Scourge" experiment for a third time. But, the White Sphere happened, so maybe it didn't work out perfectly for the Shaltari, but maybe it did... They keep the Scourge from discovering the Colonies until we can do our rabbit act on those planets again and build up a huge population that we can hurl ourselves back at the Scourge with in the Reconquest and this time we have a decent chance of either wiping out the Scourge, or, at least weakening them severely enough for the Shaltari to step in and "sweep away" what remains. And if we win, we'll be so weakened that the Shaltari can just "sweep away" us. That's what I think they're trying to do.

But I don't think anyone, not the Shaltari and not the Scourge, figured the PHR into their initial plans, and that's thrown a monkey wrench into the whole works.

Now, at GenCon 2015 I had some time to speak to Dave when it was just him and me, and he told me some stuff, and I asked if I could relay that to the Forum (cuz he knew I was pumping him for info and then putting up what I'd learned here, I was upfront with him about that), and this time he said, "Some of it." So, most of what he told me you now know from Reconquest: Phase 2 (he didn't tell me everything that's in R:P2, conversely, but some of the major themes were hinted at, and now we all know what we know), but two things need to be emphasized. One, which BlackLegion brought up elsewhere, is that the Scourge are not running from anything, they are the apex predators of the galaxy. We know that. But, second, is that the PHR know more about what's going on in the galaxy than the Shaltari do. Yes, the Shaltari are very technologically advanced, but they don't know as much as the PHR do. And the PHR are aware of this "threat to all life". Are the Shaltari aware of this threat? Dunno...

So all this activity by the PHR on Asgard, the Tlolacan moons, Shangi-La, etc, is utterly fascinating, and hopefully we'll find out more about what the PHR are up to when Dropfleet finally gets here. But to be sure, the PHR are a young "race", but are wise beyond their years thanks to the White Sphere.

But the PHR know of a "threat to all life" that is coming, and that the UCM needs to be prepared for it. To do so, it serves the PHR's purpose that the UCM views them as a threat, if not an outright enemy. We know this from R:P2.

But I don't think the Shaltari know what that threat is, or even that it exists. They're a bit myopic and selfish in their motives. Plus, they are separate tribes, that have seemed to have polarized into two main groups, but it's entirely possible that when the Scourge emissary talked about "the Shaltari" he either meant A) all of the Shaltari, or B) different tribes are doing different things to influence the war in different ways, and the Scourge aren't aware or don't care that this is the case. In other words, one tribe may have led the Scourge to Humanity, and another kept them from finding the Colonies after their initial invasion; OR it was the Shaltari in their entirety that has orchestrated this whole thing. Given the nature of the different tribes, or groups of tribes, which do you all think is the most likely?

BTW, the whole "I will get you to hate me so that you can achieve even greater things, but I am your brother" trope that the PHR seem to be on with the UCM totally reminds me of Racer X and Speed Racer! I'm sure it's been used in other places, but that's what I think of...

I love my job (well, I love having a job), but a bad day of gaming beats a good day of work every time!

just finished reading Phase 2. That last story was pretty intense. One thing that I thought very interesting and that I have not seen mentioned yet is the amount of intelligence that the Scourge apparently posses about the UCM. - The scourge hinted at knowing what is in the higly classified report. - They either managed to infiltrate the Ferrum system and plant their own fold space nodes, or they managed to get their hands on the UCM codes and use the UCM's own nodes.How does this work? Are the Scourge able to access the memory of their hosts? Are they able to pass as normal Humans? At least now we know they are capable of speech. Have they infiltrated the UCM by taking UCM officers as hosts and then return to the colonies? Has this been discussed elsewhere?Cheers

1) I think it's pretty obvious that the threat the PHR is talking about is not the Scourge. Why? Because they approve of the UCM's actions in a "for now this is okay" way. If the Scourge was the "real" threat, then the PHR would be completely comfortable with the UCM focusing on them indefinitely.

2) Additionally, while the Scourge have a certain wicked charm, there's also a bit of a nod towards them being a little... pitiful. They are a desperate people, driven by their biology to search for host after host. They go crazy, their insane host bodies eventually rebelling against their control until they become insane and self-destructive. They are pathetic, broken, unfinished things. I'm not sure that's the profile of a setting-wide mega-villain.

Personally, as a Shaltari player, I would really like to see a little of the veil of mystery parted. It's obvious that the Shaltari are a fragmented people with vastly different cultures. Some of them are bloodthirsty, some venerate warriors but might actually prefer to live in (relative) peace. Some are honest, others are manipulative. One of Mankind's mistake was in assuming that each Shaltari spoke for the entire race.

Hopefully the Shaltari will be a little more intimately involved in the story soon!