I'd known of Swamp Ratte' back when I was just a teenager with a modem
trying to make a name for himself as The Slipped Disk. He called himself
"Swamp Rat" (the Ratte' was a later affectation) and was one of a band
of kids sending out textfile after textfile on every weird or evil
subject possible. Metallica lyrics sat next to game documentation and
they were sandwiched by sick stories of mutilation, sexual frenzy and
what it meant to be elite. They called themselves the evocative "Cult of
The Dead Cow" or "cDc" and branded everything they made with their logo,
making it instantly memorable and collectable. We never sent mail between
each other and while I may have snuck onto his BBS (Demon Roach Underground)
on one occasion or two, we never had any of that sort of communication.
I was a BBS kid, he was a BBS kid, the twain did not meet.

As it turned out, the kid who took over my BBS when I got into college
(handle of Dave Ferret) got it listed as a "Cult of the Dead Cow Node"
and attached itself to the cDc, becoming friends with the fluctuating
members through the early 1990's. One of them, Deth Vegetable, had
helped this happen, and had become a member of the cDc when he began
writing files for them.

Then the media got involved. Deth Vegetable started getting yanked into
every hacking and cracking story that the newspapers and television
stations could dream up, riding the frenzied wave of hype that surrounded
hackerdom throughout the 1990s. Instead of avoiding the limelight, the
members of cDc embraced it; they accepted the interviews and turned the entire process on
its head, manipulating the media to their whim. Their slogan, "World
Domination through Media Saturation" became, in fact, the truth, and
the appearances of cDc and cDc-affiliated members in mass media became
legion. They earned fame (and the usual derision of any public figures)
and had a great time doing it.

For his part, Swamp Ratte' happily fell into the whole mess, declaring
himself "Grandmaster Ratte'" and involving himself in more and more
elaborate shows and pranks during conventions, the peak of which may
very well have been the appearance of basically all members of cDc at
DEFCON in 1999 to announce the release of Back Orifice 2K, a "remote
administration tool" whose anticipation rivaled that of any other
software release at the time. Their antics on stage, including a
projection of their logo and related video, massive revival by
Ratte', and serious discussions of the power of BO2K, were broadcast
around the world and became part of the grand story of hackerdom.
While they have their share of critics and "playa haters", there is no doubt
the Cult of the Dead Cow (and Swamp Ratte') have left a lasting
impression on their subculture.

Imagine my surprise when I found out at that DEFCON that Swamp Ratte'
not only knew of but admired me, and we became colleagues of a sort
through the ensuing years. He'd moved from Texas to New York City,
so it was a no-brainer that when I asked him if he could be up for an
interview, he'd say yes. In fact, throughout his work with cDc, Swamp
Ratte' had always been one to bring up the past, glorify the Apple II,
and generally keep things historically real. His file #200 for cDc is
the classic example, with many examples of historical BBS knowledge
combined with the latest in jargon and humor.

We conducted the interview in his apartment in Harlem, both in front
of his computer setup and in his bathtub. Now, as for that bathtub...

cDc have always been about showmanship (and really over-the-top
showmanship, too), so naturally I joked about some sort of Hunter S.
Thompson interview where he'd be in the bathtub with a stogie and
a gun ranting about BBSes. So when I got there for the interview and
he said "I got the stogie!" I knew we were in trouble.

The first part of the interview was conducted seriously, in front of
that gear, and Ratte' did his best to harken back to his Apple II days
and the times that his BBS had made him happy.

The second part is almost unusable, partly because it is the most jarring,
disturbing thing to see a guy in a bathtub rant about Apple IIs, but also
because you can hear me literately gasping for breath from laughing so
hard, as Swamp Ratte' jibed and joked and laid out some hysterical
challenges to those who had wronged the Cult of the Dead Cow. There are
some usable clips that will show up in the final product (I have no
idea where, at the moment) so it was DEFINITELY not a loss. And look
at those pictures!

We ate downstairs at a cute little soul food restaurant with a buffet of 4-5 dishes,
chatting about the good times and the various cDc historical figures and
events, and went back and talked for a few hours more. It was a great
time.