This whole thread needs deleted. It contributes NOTHING to board; and certainly shouldn't be replied to by moderators, who are supposed to be above this sort of thing. Posters like this only get emboldened when they know they have captured the attention of a moderator.

JK

JKhttp://www.mudskippercafe.comWhen I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.

jkisha wrote:This whole thread needs deleted. It contributes NOTHING to board; and certainly shouldn't be replied to by moderators, who are supposed to be above this sort of thing. Posters like this only get emboldened when they know they have captured the attention of a moderator.

JK

I disagree. Posting the private information of individuals was the original reason I deleted a thread. Here and There thought it was deleted for other reasons. He was wrong. He has the information on cyberstalking, and if he feels it is worthwhile, he certainly can share it for all to benefit.

I feel it is important for all users of the eplaya to know that if they reply to such a thread that their post is in danger of being deleted when the entire thread goes away. While I do try to edit out such information post by post, if it is the main thrust of the thread, then outright deletion is what happens. Stand by your words is the usual mode of operations, until it crosses the line into real life information. Case by case basis.

While parts of this thread are inaccurate and useless, fundamentally I feel I should answer the questions raised as best I can. Above replying? No, not at all. You all have my attention.

maggiemayday wrote:As a moderator, I can see IP addresses for every post if I choose. See the Quote button? For a mod, there are more buttons in that corner. The IP address is our primary anti-spam tool. Just a useful side effect that we can see socks.

I can see three problems with that, immediately:

1. Dynamic IP: many isps assign temporary IPs out of a block of addresses that will be common to thousands of users.

2. Shared Computers. As the median income continues to drop, these will become more common.

3. Shared IPs

The entire nation of Qatar was blocked from Flickr for a while, because a single IP covers the whole country, and one person decided to post spam. There might be other cases of this nature.

IP addresses are good for proving that two different users can't be the same person, because, as with JPQ and me, the single person would have to be in two different places a few hundred miles apart at the same time, for that to be true. They're not so good for establishing that two people are the same person. There should be some way of fixing this problem, like having some sort of tag attached to the IP indicating which account on a shared computer or which one of an ISPs users has borrowed the IP, so one can know who is who, but nobody seems to have decided to work on this.

I wish I had better news to offer you on that score, because I can see how sock puppets can become a problem. What's to keep somebody who's been a problem from creating one throwaway id after another, after he's been banned for good reasons? But the facts are what they are, even when they aren't so pleasant or at all convenient.

AntiM wrote:LOL, dammit, I logged in as my sock to double check the non-mod view, and it switched me over in both tabs. I'm not good at being a sock, which is why I don't use them.

Maggiemayday can't see what Anti M an see.

Problem easily solved. Ever log into ePlaya in one browser, and then view it in another? Logins are browser specific.

Just be logged into ePlaya as AntiM in one browser, and Maggie Mayday in another. Don't worry too much about having used the wrong account. Even somebody as out of the loop as I am knows that maggiemayday is an acknowledged sock, so I don't believe that this will lead to any misunderstandings.

AntiM wrote:LOL, dammit, I logged in as my sock to double check the non-mod view, and it switched me over in both tabs. I'm not good at being a sock, which is why I don't use them.

Maggiemayday can't see what Anti M an see.

Neither can Minister of State see what Bay Bridge Sue does. (I just checked as well... )

Funny, I forgot how little I use that account - mainly for old camp business, or for comedic relief... Depending on the computer, not only do I have to log out and REFRESH the log out before I log in, I also have to clear my cache on one of them...

Too much of a hassle IMO!!

as to...

Here and there wrote:I can see three problems with that, immediately:

1. Dynamic IP: many isps assign temporary IPs out of a block of addresses that will be common to thousands of users.

2. Shared Computers. As the median income continues to drop, these will become more common.

3. Shared IPs

There are ways we can glean multiple IPs and users and coorelate them. Back when I had a LOT of time to do it, it became somewhat easy... it still remains a tool in our toolkit should we be on the receiving end of a similar attack in the future. (which is why I don't say HOW we do it... just know it can be done.)

And some mods have even better powers than I... as do those with the "evil admin powers"... I didn't realize the depth and breadth of those until I got to play Goddess on a phpBB board once...

jkisha wrote:This whole thread needs deleted. It contributes NOTHING to board; and certainly shouldn't be replied to by moderators, who are supposed to be above this sort of thing. Posters like this only get emboldened when they know they have captured the attention of a moderator.

JK

I disagree. Posting the private information of individuals was the original reason I deleted a thread. Here and There thought it was deleted for other reasons. He was wrong. He has the information on cyberstalking, and if he feels it is worthwhile, he certainly can share it for all to benefit.

I feel it is important for all users of the eplaya to know that if they reply to such a thread that their post is in danger of being deleted when the entire thread goes away. While I do try to edit out such information post by post, if it is the main thrust of the thread, then outright deletion is what happens. Stand by your words is the usual mode of operations, until it crosses the line into real life information. Case by case basis.

While parts of this thread are inaccurate and useless, fundamentally I feel I should answer the questions raised as best I can. Above replying? No, not at all. You all have my attention.

I agree. Yanking a thread without a clear explination leaves scars. This may leave scars as well, but they aren't as ugly.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

We certainly are aware of the IP issues you raise. It is problematic. And yes, banned people can come back. Keeps the admins hopping when the mods point out returning users. Spammers do this all the time. That's why we have to go case by case, and be a part of the community to know who is where, what and why. When in doubt, I usually just ask. When it looks like spam or a spambot attack, I report and delete. I'm not always right, but my track record is quite good.
When moderators were being recruited, there was much discuss about community mods with powers of mediation vs. completely impartial mods with a set of unbreakable rules. Community involvement prevails, and I am glad of it, although it is a major pain in my personal backside some mornings. The give and take between personalities would otherwise be lost, and that is one thing which makes this a good board. Not everyone agrees, but personally, I dislike heavily moderated boards where you can't sneeze without being deleted, and the word "fart" is auto-censored away. Some people prefer the old Wild West Flame War Open Range this board used to be, but it was unusable as a source of information, and made the current squabbles look like love sonnets.

theCryptofishist wrote:I agree. Yanking a thread without a clear explination leaves scars. This may leave scars as well, but they aren't as ugly.

When I pull a thread, I PM the OP with an explanation. Others admins and mods may or may not do the same thing in the same fashion, but it is my standard practice. In this case, I did PM JPQ, then pulled the thread.

One of the reasons I have the moderator thread in Open Discussion is so folks can ask, "Hey, what happened to such and such?" If I did the deletion, I'll explain. If someone else did it, I'll go ask. We do have an area off the main eplaya for mods to talk over users, spam, topics and so on, for feedback, information and consensus.

Immediate deletion without notification of the OP means it is spam, enough of a violation of the TOS to be removed ASAP, or a concerted board disruption. Those are the shoot first situations.

I want to say this single post really spoils eplaya for me. you want to bitch and moan do it private, if there are legal aspects and you feel they are relevant go that road, if not stfu and do it by pm. Eplaya is a well moded board everybody is relatively pleasant and a lot of work goes into making this a nice place to be by people that GIVE there time to make it so.
i understand there is history i am not aware of BUT if i was a virgin who had just got here (oh fuck i am) it would seriously make me think twice about going to thEplaya for real

some people do say stupid stuff, they usually apologise quickly if they are wrong and are forgiven. Everybody i have messaged in public have been welcoming and private have been friendly.
so please here and there if you want to be a politician do it behind closed doors, I am sure if you have anything constructive to add the admin and mods will listen, discuss and respond to your personal issues with eplaya, if not well there are other places, i understand there are other burning man forums -tribe is it?
I for one do not want to read negative and personal bitches

yes i know i could use my personal censor and simply not read this thread but you could equally not subject all the other guests and users to your displeasure. besides form what i hae read you weren't even the origanal complainant (sure that wasnt aword)

FREE THE SHERPASBurners with torches is right and natural and just.-fishy.CATCH AND RELEASE.

Like the real playa, you can't expect people here to conform to your needs or desires. Can it get unruly, even ugly, sometimes? It most certainly can- but you can ignore that thread just like you can walk away from an ugly scene on the playa (or in your local pub).

The real playa is not at all like the eplaya, except that some of your new favorite people will be there. You won't see the "hot button" issues being pushed as much, if at all, and I've rarely heard politics talked there (except when Katrina hit New Orleans).

Some people love these threads as much as you hate them. Some people love dubstep as much as I hate it. Some people like going to bed on the playa at midnight as much as I love staying up until sunrise. You just need to pick & choose your threads here- for example I try to avoid politics like the devil on here now (I didn't in the past), and there are posters who I've plonked because they added nothing positive here for me but lots of negative.

Just chant this when you get frustrated with the eplaya:

the eplaya IS NOT the Playa!

Trust me, once you hit the dust you won't even remember the little crap on here. Well, except you'll understand better why we gang up on DJ's.

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

sorry i have to walk away, i find myself slipping into depression, a virtual life is no substitute for a real life and friends a world away are no substitute for real friends. I will be on the playa and Will find you there but for now i have to stop this before i spoil what could be.

someone on another thread said nothing spoils your chances as the smell of dseperation and i can smell my own desperation.

I hope when i come back i will be able to start again with a more hopeful attitude but right now i feel that if i can take offen.

enough.

see you soon if not i will see you on the playa.

FREE THE SHERPASBurners with torches is right and natural and just.-fishy.CATCH AND RELEASE.

AntiM wrote:When I pull a thread, I PM the OP with an explanation. Others admins and mods may or may not do the same thing in the same fashion, but it is my standard practice.

If its obvious spam, or an ad from a one post user made for that single purpose Ill dump the page without telling the OP about it. Some asshat was trying to sell all sorts of digital cameras a couple of days ago, even though they were smoking deals (if legit) I dumped it. Ill let OP's know why I dumped a thread otherwise.

Eplaya is a blast to read, like anyone else here some stuff annoys me so I do not read it closely, but skim over it at a minimum. Other stuff sucks me in and I have to read it.

AntiM does the lions share of modding our board that's for sure and I appreciate it. I do what i can. As far as socks, I know the majority of whos is whos, and it only takes a key stroke or two to find out with our mod panels. Who ever pointed out that you can hide IP addresses is correct, but most people are not good enough to remember to do it every time. Eventually they log in and the DB remembers that Ip and correlates it with the other user names on that IP. Is it flawless system? no, but I can certainly tell who here has 3-4 socks or 10. Some people have thousands of posts on several accounts from the same IP. could be separate people at work, but some of the suspected socks have the same exact IP's time and time again with no unique ones. So that tell me that they live together, work together and travel together as well. Entirely possible, but getting more unlikely.

PM's are usually the best way to get my attention to a problem as well so dont be shy about

maggiemayday wrote:As a moderator, I can see IP addresses for every post if I choose. See the Quote button? For a mod, there are more buttons in that corner. The IP address is our primary anti-spam tool. Just a useful side effect that we can see socks.Most folks who use socks are not careful in which device they post from, so an IP often comes up with all usernames attached. I do have to be careful, as any users with the same IP comes up, such as friends using a shared computer. Years of being on the board is what sorts that out.

The board looks different to mods than it does to users.

You're implying that the IP shows where they are posting from, not which address they were registered from. Is true?

theCryptofishist wrote:Apparently, every single device (computer, whatever) has its own unique number, Dougly.

I wonder if you could build one at home that had no number, or would the internet would just give you one the first time you logged on?

You have to have an IP address to connect to the internet- Internet Protocol Address. Without that number there is no way to be recognized by the internet & one would have to be added for you to connect.

There are plenty of ways to "spoof" IP's, including some that let you browse anonymously, but, like 007 said- it only takes one screw up for your real IP to get pegged to your sock.

I know a few hard-core techies, and those who hack have elaborate systems on their "hacking" computers (as opposed to their "check the email" computer)- anonymizers, multiple firewalls, spoof routers... Sort of a pain just to be an asshat on threads.

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

theCryptofishist wrote:Apparently, every single device (computer, whatever) has its own unique number, Dougly.

I wonder if you could build one at home that had no number, or would the internet would just give you one the first time you logged on?

No, you can't be connected to the internet without a unique IP address, which is assigned either randomly each time you connect, or they assign you a static IP address that never changes. Most ISPs charge extra for a static address.

However, there are a ton of proxy services that you can join that will totally conceal your IP address. You log onto the proxy server and then you connect to places like eplaya through the proxy server and your IP address is hidden. If it is a good service, they have a large enough block of IP addresses that make it virtually impossible to know who the poster is, as the assigned IP address is totally different each time you log onto the proxy. Good paid services will even route your calls to servers in other countries--different each time, which makes detection even more difficult.

JK

JKhttp://www.mudskippercafe.comWhen I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.

The other factor is that the eplaya is not 100% anonymous. Many of us do attend the event at the same time, we do have the chance to meet and greet, we do post where we camp, what we are working on. We visit. We're in theme camps together, go to fund raisers together, attend regionals together, spin, work and play together. Just not all of us at the same time. Even the now and then factor improves online interactions.

This is my favorite part of eplaya, and of all the forums I've been active with over the years. I've met a bunch of you, those I've met know ones I haven't- there's a connectedness. It's not just strangers playing "win the internet", at least not for the most part.

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Simon isn't the one who had your back when you were the one getting ganged up on, not so very long ago. I was, which I guess just goes to show that others understood you more clearly than I did. I will be pleased to learn from my own mistakes, and their insights. Goodbye, DVD.

AntiM wrote:The other factor is that the eplaya is not 100% anonymous. Many of us do attend the event at the same time, we do have the chance to meet and greet, we do post where we camp, what we are working on. We visit. We're in theme camps together, go to fund raisers together, attend regionals together, spin, work and play together. Just not all of us at the same time. Even the now and then factor improves online interactions.

Everyone is nicer in person, most of the time.

That's what I like most about eplaya. I really look forward to meeting the people I know here in person on the playa. It helps to keep it real here too.

JK

JKhttp://www.mudskippercafe.comWhen I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.

maggiemayday wrote:As a moderator, I can see IP addresses for every post if I choose. See the Quote button? For a mod, there are more buttons in that corner. The IP address is our primary anti-spam tool. Just a useful side effect that we can see socks.Most folks who use socks are not careful in which device they post from, so an IP often comes up with all usernames attached. I do have to be careful, as any users with the same IP comes up, such as friends using a shared computer. Years of being on the board is what sorts that out.

The board looks different to mods than it does to users.

You're implying that the IP shows where they are posting from, not which address they were registered from. Is true?

No, it shows the IP's that a user has ever used to log into their account. Some peopel that travel a lot show hundreds of IP's Anyone else who posts or has posted from that IP shows as well.

This makes me wonder how many I have associated with me...Minnesota, Nebraska, Missouri, Colorado, Nevada...multiple ISP's, bouncing all over the place...would one of the mods care to share my numbers?

Kinetic V ~~~~~~I bring order to chaos. And I bring chaos to those who deserve it, wherever that may be.

Kinetic V wrote:This makes me wonder how many I have associated with me...Minnesota, Nebraska, Missouri, Colorado, Nevada...multiple ISP's, bouncing all over the place...would one of the mods care to share my numbers?