I need to bring up to the forum something that has been bothering me. The level of hostility on our boards seems to be on the rise. Either that or I am becoming more sensitive to some of what I would now consider unnecessarily harsh attacks on individuals, which I doubt.

This is a plea for a bit more civility when responding to those you don't agree with, or even those people who are obviously wrong. If being downright hostile isn't necessary to make a point, and it rarely is, I would suggest not composing your posts with hostile comments as a tool. More often it's a distraction, and it almost never results in the desired outcome unless that outcome is to simply piss someone you don't agree with off. Overt hostility will never change a mind…

That said, I am not going to start censuring people just because I'm bummed out. We have a very open forum here, and in many ways that makes SFN special. And I'm not really asking you to censure yourselves. What I am asking is that you think about what result you would like when responding to someone in a debate and focus on that. And yes, none of us here is a stranger to how frustrating that can be. But in here, that frustration just happens to come with the territory. Some people cannot be gotten to and will never hear what you have to say. Oh well…

I am not looking to lobotomize the forum. I am asking only to bring it back to what it was. A little more civility, please…

Thanks,

Kil

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

I reserve the right to tell off those that deserve it and do please feel free to call me a moron when my words betray me.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini

I have been an egregious offender (especially with GK Paul and "braintrust" Bill Scott) and I wholeheartedly agree. I apologize and will endeavor to raise the level of discourse.

"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"

"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"

It is hard sometimes to not anger people when it is your opinions they are upset about. Like in the PartyPartyParty thread, Dude is angry about my opinion of the Green Party Membership.

So, do we not give our opinions?

Or the big battle Dave and I had that likely precipitated this thread, I can't speak for Dave's reasons for going on and on but I was terribly offended by personal attacks and while sometimes I don't get as bothered by such things as other times, in this case I felt I had to say something.

I agree completely that when people are just plain shi++y with each other back and forth, it's a useless exchange. And there are a few things that seem to set such exchanges off.

For example, why is someone a "liar" when you don't agree with them? That's absurd. Do they supposedly plan false statements? Of course not.

And is it possible to clarify things with people before assuming some meaning or connotation in what they posted that might not be correct?

And when they have gotten something wrong about what someone else posted, can't the other person just correct the misconception without assuming the person who made the mistake is evil for having made it?

Is everything an insult? Sometimes things are said that were not intended to be offensive. Maybe the person is like me, socially challenged. I say things I never thought were offensive, only to have someone take offense. How was I to know? And how much is being read into what was said that really wasn't there? We don't have all the verbal cues when everything is just on the screen.

So those are some of the things I see going on. So, go ahead, tell me all the things I do that piss everyone else off. It's not like I'm bad all the time, I hope.

It is hard sometimes to not anger people when it is your opinions they are upset about. Like in the PartyPartyParty thread, Dude is angry about my opinion of the Green Party Membership.

So, do we not give our opinions?

Or the big battle Dave and I had that likely precipitated this thread, I can't speak for Dave's reasons for going on and on but I was terribly offended by personal attacks and while sometimes I don't get as bothered by such things as other times, in this case I felt I had to say something.

I agree completely that when people are just plain shi++y with each other back and forth, it's a useless exchange. And there are a few things that seem to set such exchanges off.

For example, why is someone a "liar" when you don't agree with them? That's absurd. Do they supposedly plan false statements? Of course not.

And is it possible to clarify things with people before assuming some meaning or connotation in what they posted that might not be correct?

And when they have gotten something wrong about what someone else posted, can't the other person just correct the misconception without assuming the person who made the mistake is evil for having made it?

Is everything an insult? Sometimes things are said that were not intended to be offensive. Maybe the person is like me, socially challenged. I say things I never thought were offensive, only to have someone take offense. How was I to know? And how much is being read into what was said that really wasn't there? We don't have all the verbal cues when everything is just on the screen.

So those are some of the things I see going on. So, go ahead, tell me all the things I do that piss everyone else off. It's not like I'm bad all the time, I hope.

A whole day...! Well done, B'gal!

As for opinions, if you have one and the information inspiring at least seems sound, then by all means put it forth. An honest response might pick it apart or confirm it, but either way the flow of information becomes more accurate.

"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres

"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Part of the problem has to be the medium. Even with smileys and whatnot, some comments that weren't meant to be harsh or insulting nevertheless come across that way because we've evolved (!) to communicate via the spoken word and not in this manner.

As an example, some of us SFN-regulars met in DC this past summer. During the afternoon, there were discussions and debates and the like, but never was it heated and never did anyone take offense at anything. This was no doubt because when talking in person, things like facial expressions, intonation, and other verbal and physical cues lets us know that things said were in fun, or not meant to be hurtful.

I'm sure that if the exchanges that took place that afternoon took place via SFN on the forums or in chat, there would have been a number of clarifications and such to make sure that comments weren't misunderstood.

In light of this, following Kil in trying to be civil is probably a good idea, since in general it's so hard to communicate in this medium anyhow.

As difficult as it may be when dealing with an arrogant, condescending jerk, especially one whose lack of knowledge of the topic fails to justify any level of arrogance, I will attempt to maintain an acceptable level of civility.

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge. T. H. Huxley

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