Bhakta Stanislav sent this query about the ability of the soul to change its relationship with Krsna in the spiritual world:

Question:

Hare Krishna! All glory to Shrila Prabhupada and devotees! Your answer to question about svarupa reminded me of the saying of Srila Prabhupada’s in the introduction to Bhagavad-gita:

“Every living being, out of the many, many billions and trillions of living beings, has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi—perfection of one’s constitutional position.”

Here Srila Prabhupada said that the soul has eternal and specific relationships. On the other hand, in a conversation that you have led, Srila Prabhupada said that a devotee can change his shape.

Here is one more interesting conversation on the morning walk (07/06/1976):

“Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, when the devotee is in the original relationship with Krsna, his siddha-deha, why is it that he sometimes changes his original rasa with Krsna?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Ramesvara: Each one of us has an original relationship with Krsna, some as plant, some as tree, some as cow, some as cowherd boy. So if that is re-established, why should the devotee desire to change it?

Prabhupada: Well, that is spiritual kingdom. You can change if you like.

Tamala Krsna: It is not static, Prabhupada once explained. Love is not static.

Prabhupada: Generally, it is not changed. Just like mother Yasoda, she’s mother all the time, eternally.

[end quote]

How properly to understand these points about what the soul already has eternal certain relations, on the other hand, it can change them? When is this happening?”

Answer:

I can’t claim to have any realizations about this topic at all. I can make some comments based on what I heard from Srila Prabhupada and if any reader has any deeper insights, they are welcome to add them.

I was present at the above conversation with Ramesvara prabhu.

And as you noted, I did participate in a short exchange with Srila Prabhupada in an after-class questions and answers session in Melbourne Australia on May 20 1975.

Prior to the class I had a debate with my Godbrother Yasomatinandana prabhu about the original spiritual form of the soul. He had read that every soul starts off as with a human form and then transforms. I held that since the spiritual form is eternal, that means it is always the same. Therefore, if one is a peacock in the spiritual world,

that is an eternal and unchanging form i.e. that soul could not have had a human form previously.

Consequently at the end of this particular class, Yaso prabhu put the question to Srila Prabhupada:

Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 — Melbourne, May 20, 1975

Yasomatinandana: Srila Prabhupada, you were saying that because the body has arms and legs, then the coat has a similar shape. Then does the spirit soul that’s within our body have arms and legs like that?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Yasomatinandana: Would the spirit soul that is within, say, a cow’s body, is in a different shape?

Prabhupada: Yes. It has got also legs. But the shape has taken according to his desire. Every animal has got these four things. Just like bird, it has got two wings, two legs. The animal has got four legs. And the man has got two hands, two legs. So the same parts of the body, they are appearing in a different type. But the four limbs of the body are there. Hm?

Yasomatinandana: Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?

Madhudvisa: The question is that whether the eternal form of the spirit soul is a human form or is it…

Prabhupada: Yes, human form. God is also human form. “Man is made after the shape of God.” I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs.

Hari-sauri: How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?

Prabhupada: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul.

Hari-sauri: They are covered in the spiritual world?

Madhudvisa: He is asking if they were actually covered in the spiritual world as well.

Prabhupada: Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that “As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna,” he becomes flower, voluntarily.

And he can change his…, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [Bg. 4.11]. That is Krsna’s all-powerfulness, spiritual life.

At this stage I had only been in the temple just over three years. So my concepts of spiritual life were still very undeveloped. It was a revelation to me that spiritual formscould change, because I thought that change was a material symptom and something only wrought by time. I was thinking that if we have a form that is eternal, that means it will never change in appearance or rasa.

However in the above two references, Srila Prabhupada makes it clear that it is our relationship as eternal servants of Krsna that never changes. The particular way we engage in that relationship can change, and is subject to transformation due to desiring to please Krsna in a variety of ways.

Variety is infinite and therefore the ways in which we can serve Krsna are also infinite. Krsna provides the means to serve Him based on the desires of the devotee. So if, as Srila Prabhupada points out, a devotee wishes to change his particular way of serving, or wants to experience the flavor of another rasa, it is possible to do so. In the spiritual world anything is possible, by Krsna’s mercy. Generally though, devotees don’t change the particular way that they offer themselves for the Lord’s pleasure.

I am now translating nightly, and each day Shyamasundar types the tape and Pradyumna is editing Sanskrit, so we shall be sending more and more material because you say that you can edit any amount we can supply, so I take that as a challenge and I shall try to see if you can keep up with me. Yes, you are correct to say that "It is all nectar,¨ everything having relation with Krsna or Lord Chaitanya is nectarine, and our literature in our line of Vaisnava acharyas is so nice that there is no comparison anywhere in the world for it, so I want that my disciples like you and others should take this task very seriously to give the world the access to this great treasure of Vaishnava literature by producing innumerable books and small booklets, and that the force of literary influence will change everything and save the people from their miserable condition and corrupt status of life.

I am now translating nightly, and each day Shyamasundar types the tape and Pradyumna is editing Sanskrit, so we shall be sending more and more material because you say that you can edit any amount we can supply, so I take that as a challenge and I shall try to see if you can keep up with me. Yes, you are correct to say that "It is all nectar,¨ everything having relation with Krsna or Lord Chaitanya is nectarine, and our literature in our line of Vaisnava acharyas is so nice that there is no comparison anywhere in the world for it, so I want that my disciples like you and others should take this task very seriously to give the world the access to this great treasure of Vaishnava literature by producing innumerable books and small booklets, and that the force of literary influence will change everything and save the people from their miserable condition and corrupt status of life.

Haribol. A bit of a late post today. My Grandkids had school holiday concerts yesterday and today. My kids just uploaded some video to YouTube from this weekends kirtan. So here is a clip of my wife, Ashalata devi dasi (ACBSP) chanting and the rest of the posts tomorrow.

4:49 A.M.

Sri Harinama Cintamani (spoken by Haridasa Thakura to Lord Caitanya and written by Bhaktivinoda Thakura):

How a Vaisnava imbues his potency in others:

“When one sits in the presence of Vaisnava for some time, one feels Krishna’s potency expanding from his person. This potency enters the heart of a faithful person and impregnates it with bhakti. He experiences immediate ecstasy, just a moment’s association with a Vaisnava, bhakti is invoked in the heart of a pious person. Immediately he will be inspired to chant Lord Krishna’s name; gradually, the holy name will offer him all the spiritual qualities.”

The power of just being in the presence of a pure chanter of the holy name can not be overestimated. The potency “exudes” from his person. You want to chant because you see how blissful he is in chanting, and if you talk to him you hear the gems of wisdom. You become attracted to him and want him to be your spiritual master. It is a magnetic force that takes place beyond ordinary reasoning. It happened like that to us who came into the presence of Srila Prabhupada. Just by his humble sakti we took our chanting and experienced the ecstasy of the holy name. Whether in kirtana or in japa we wanted to do what he was doing. We wanted to feel what he was feeling or at least what we saw of it. One of the devotees remarked: “Whatever is he’s got, I want it.”

I woke up confused this morning and was tired and did not wish to get up from bed. I got from bed for a little while but then on Baladeva’s suggestion I went back to bed until past 4:00 A.M. I can’t explain it but I just don’t feel enthusiasm this morning in my body. At least I have all day to make it up and have chanted eight rounds so far.

When you come near a true Vaisnava, his potency extends to you. You want to be like him. Some of his habits you take up superficially, but more important, you really feel the pull of bhaktiand despite what other people think of you, you take up dancing, chanting Hare Krishna, stopping from eating meat and avoiding illicit sex. You owe it all to him and stay with him as much as possible picking up the genuine radiant current.

According to Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy, Srila Prabhupada may be in Goloka Vrndavana in the form of a gopa directly playing with Krishna, or he may be in the form of a manjari assisting the gopis who are arranging for the conjugal pastimes, of Radha-Krishna, or He may be moving in Lord Caitanya’s sankirtana movement. Just as the eternally liberated Narada Muni travels sometimes in the spiritual world and sometimes in the material world, playing his vina and helping conditioned souls by glorifying Krishna and giving relevant instructions, so Srila Prabhupada may be doing like that. I do not know.

I do know I had a very definite pastime connection with His Divine Grace, when he came to us at 26 Second Avenue. A tiny, conditioned entity cannot expect to know very much about confidential devotional service. Furthermore, he should be satisfied to carry out the orders of the spiritual master as given in this world.

So what is the basic message of Prabhupada? The very first thing he said to us was, “Chant Hare Krishna, and be happy.” And for reading, Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam are all we need. Live with devotees, cooperate and push on Krishna consciousness. These are our goals and this is our work. Only by faithfully prosecuting these orders can we realize Prabhupada’s promise that we will think of Krishna twenty-four hours a day.

Free Write

I turned at random to Srimad-Bhagavatam, Canto Three, Chapter 25, text 26. “Thus consciously engaged in devotional service in the association of devotees, a person gains distaste for sense gratification, both in this world and in the next, by constantly thinking about the activities of the Lord. This process of Krishna consciousness is the easiest process of mystic power; when one is actually situated on that path of devotional service, he is able to control the mind.”

Purport: “In all scriptures people are encouraged to act in a pious way so that they can enjoy sense gratification not only in this life but also in the next. For example, one is promised promotion to the heavenly kingdom of higher planets by pious fruitive activities. But a devotee in the association of devotees prefers to contemplate the activities of the Lord—how He has created this universe, how He is maintaining it, how the creation dissolves, and how in the spiritual kingdom the Lord’s pastimes are going on. There are full literatures describing these activities of the Lord, especially Bhagavad-gita, Brahma-samhita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. The sincere devotee who associates with devotees gets the opportunity to hear and contemplate this subject of the pastimes of the Lord, and the result is that he feels distaste for so-called happiness in this or that world, in heaven or on other planets. The devotees are simply interested in being transferred to the personal association of the Lord; they have no more attraction for temporary so-called happiness.

I liked reading A Walk Between Heaven And Earth because it was written as a journal, not about or how to textbook on the subject. The only weakness for me is that it was a little “newagey” with discussion of sweat lodge sessions, nature excursions with an old man who lives on Mt. Shasta, cogitations on dreams. For example the woman’s brother dies during the course of the writing the journal. She has a dream that two cougars are running down the tree, and she speculates that maybe there is afterlife. I want to learn there is afterlife by reading Krishna telling me so in Bhagavad-gita As It Is, not from a vision of baby cougars. But what I liked is her deep commitment to the journal. She practices it all the time and loves it. It’s rare to find a person like that. And she is aware that most of it wouldn’t get published and she doesn’t mind; it’s a modest personal art form. Self-effacing yet as the same time strongly passionate about doing it. Writing on that white page. Keeping it in one journal and often re-reading the journal and finding out things about herself. She is a teacher of journal writing and workshops (she titles her workshops with different titles to make them acceptable in different academic circles but usually they are about journal writing).

Caitanya-candrodaya is here. He was speaking humbly and intelligently. Around this time of year I start thinking about being a spiritual master.

I’m having trouble writing paraphrases in my journal in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, First Canto, and now on the rasa-dance. The Caitanya Bhagavata was very entertaining with lots of stories, and I could paraphrase it in the retelling. The beginning of the First Canto is “technical”, no lila, no stories, and I just can’t go riding into it.

I started reading the rasa-dance but found it too much physical description, perspiring, embracing and so on.

Caitanya-candrodaya hinted that the journal is getting very formal and that it can use some loosening up. You can think of it now, but it’s hard to get into writing something like Under Dark Stars. I could do writing sessions. You just have fun and not write in any particular object. I would like to be writing like the lady from Austria.

Here’s a well crafted piece of work by a young Vaishnava film maker. I think you might like it. Its about this year’s Summer Getaway by our ISKCON youth here in the UK. Every year the energetic Pandava Sena – around 150 of them – get away from the UK to another holiday location. As well as holiday fun in the sun there’s plenty of time for singing kirtan, listening to inspirational talks, and lending a hand in practical service to the local devotees. The 150 youth include many who are coming to a Vaishnava event for the first time. They’ve been to many countries over the years and its become a bit of an institution. See what you think by clicking through to Youtube:

Floridians feel like its' the end of the world. Temperatures are dipping to the near freezing point. At least three people asked me “Hey Maharaj, did you bring that cold weather from Canada with you?

“I don’t remember packing it in my luggage “I replied. What a dual world we live in! It’s hot; it’s cold, up, down.

Dario, a Bosnian devotee, took to walking with me to the marine at Coconut Grove. Perhaps it had to do with it being Monday morning but yacht owners carried a rather grumpy persona. The weekend likely presented more sanguinity.

In Sanskrit you have this term “chappala sukha” referring to the flickering happiness of this world. The material energy does a very excellent job at throwing a merry go round of pointed ponies going up and down. To all this duality what comes as a response for some folks is moodiness.

I once heard a motivational speaker say “if you are moody it is symptomatic of self-centeredness”. I analyzed this remark for some minutes. When I put faces of acquaintances that are considered to have “moody” disposition that remark very much resonated with me. We are looking at people who don’t take too well to changes or dualities. They generally want you to know, “I’m miserable. I need some attention and for that ‘I’ll rear up my ugly hood and become a real irritation. It’s contagious you know. Here it is whether you like it or not.”

Perhaps this type of shock culture sounds familiar. The above description of drama queens and kings is so far removed from the transcendence that spiritualists try to achieve. The fact is that every one has a good chance to reach the enviable position of transcendence. But first we must learn to adjust outside.

Just like the fellows at the marine who use the sails. Winds and currents change constantiy. They know it more than anyone. The challenge is not the wind as Arjuna so aptly confesses to Krishna. It is the mind that rides through gusts of happiness and sadness that needs to be anchored. We must be firm against dualities.

One who con­stantly says he is a poor soul sur­ren­dered to Lord Krishna and who constantly chants Krishna’s name is a real sadhu. He con­sid­er­ing him­self lower than a blade of grass and more tol­er­ant than a tree offers all respects to oth­ers with­out expect­ing any­thing for him­self. The holy name of Krishna grants such a sadhu divine love of God­head.

if a sincere soul goes out and opens a center in any part of the world Krishna will help him in all respects. Without being empowered by Krishna, nobody can preach Krishna Consciousness. It is not academic qualification or financial strength which helps in these matters, but it is sincerity of purpose which helps us always.

I’m from Russia but I have been living in Mayapur Dham for the past three years. I was born a devotee. Just before I started this course I was studying in the girls school. I was also doing service in the sewing room. I want to do this course because I want to become a better devotee and want to learn how to serve Krsna. I am really looking forward to this course!

Radharani (Bhn.)

Writing and book work has always been my best areas of focus in school. After I graduated high school I spent six years in college developing a degree in English and communication. I also thrived in history and bio-anthropology. None of these subjects had me do anything more than open a book and type on a computer. And to most of the masses, what I was studying was quite difficult. So up until last week I felt proud of myself for having these credentials… until turban wrapping and deity dressing came into my life.

Mandakini (Bhn.)

Read These stories and more at the Mayapur Academy Blog. Here’s the video:

1969 December 7: "Srila Prabhupada desired that a temple should be established in the center of London, so you will be pleased to know this is going to take place on the Odansasthi Day. I am submitting herewith our humble invitation for your blessings."Prabhupada Letters :: 1969

1969 December 7: "I am requesting a small piece of land within the vicinity of Caitanya Math. It is not for my personal use or satisfaction of personal whims. It is in pursuance of the desire of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Prabhupada."Prabhupada Letters :: 1969

1969 December 7: "I have requested him to donate this land to our institution because the land was meant for the service of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So if you can advise him in this way then we can fulfill the desire of Srila Prabhupada by mutual coooperation."Prabhupada Letters :: 1969

1969 December 7: "I could not check my laughing when you have said so many things in bereavement. A child sometimes commits mistakes, and the father says 'Don't do like this.' So there is no question of being very seriously bereaved."Prabhupada Letters :: 1969

1973 December 7: "This is not a good style of painting. This type of painting is sentimental and not authorized. It is an artistic style for sense gratification only. I cannot encourage this style - it should be stopped immediately."Prabhupada Letters :: 1973

1975 December 7: "Upon seeing the photos of the doll exhibit I thought it was our devotees play acting. Now make a museum for the public. This doll making was my Guru Maharaja's program and his original exhibit is still touring India today."Prabhupada Letters :: 1975

1975 December 7: "Cleanliness within and without, that is very important for brahminical life. Instruct the newly initiated Brahmins about taking bath three time daily and taking bath after passing stool. They must chant at least 16 rounds daily, that will keep them strong."Prabhupada Letters :: 1975

1975 December 7: "You always have my blessings as the father always wishes that the son may be more successful than himself. We are running on the mercy of the Spiritual Master, to understand this point is to get mercy more and more."Prabhupada Letters :: 1975

I have gone through endless failed “conjugal” relationships-whether it be with devotees or non-devotees. Should I give up totally on searching or waiting for a proper life partner since maybe it’s my karma that I am paying and I should not struggle to make things work when they end up always disastrous?

Someone might call themselves a human being but it doesn’t mean that they are civilized. With students from UF in Gainesville I read a passage from the Bhagavatam (1.9.26).

“One cannot be called a civilized person without acquiring the preliminary qualities:

1. not to be angry 2. not to lie 3. to equally distribute wealth 4. to forgive 5. to beget children only by one’s legitimate wife 6. to be pure in mind and hygiene in body 7. not to be inimical toward anyone 8. to be simple 9. to support servants or subordinates

These principles as outlined by King Bhisma offer the backbone to a civilized community. The discussion that followed the reading was really wholesome and allowed those university students to look outside of the fishbowl.

The balance of my day was primarily in attendance on a presentation at the ISKCON Orlando Centre. Everyone Knows Orlando. It holds a civilization shaped around a happy mouse. That’s rather incredible. At least Mickey has always been perceived as a moral mouse for the most part. My dear monk friend, Trivikrama Swami, who’s pushing for 69 years to have been on this planet, confirmed the popularity of Disney World. “There are more hotel accommodations in Orlando than any other place on earth” he said.

Anyways my presentation in the late afternoon was about self-discipline and that it was a human being’s obligation. Refering the book, Bhagavad Gita 2.67 which states that anyone of our senses can lead us astray as a swift wind could move a boat over water in an uncontrollable way.

Bhisma’s list is an anchor for people. He draws a line between what is civil and what is not. It’s a good criterion.

When one has devel­oped a real taste for chant­ing, then a sin­gle utter­ance of the holy name can erad­i­cate all pre­vi­ous sins. Some ves­tiges of sin­ful reac­tion may still remain in a par­tic­u­lar individ­ual, but these also are grad­u­ally removed by the process of chant­ing.