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Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

You really believe that an operator who is trying to be stealthy will use a flashlight to communicate Ever heard of radios?

If you are going to be stealthy you ARE NOT GOING TO USE A FLASHLIGHT

I hate to tell you my FRIEND i understand quite a lot about noise discipline and being in a life threatening situation, do you? or is your apparant expertise being based on hollywood movies and the Surefire website?

+1

On an episode of either Kansas City, Detroit, or Dallas SWAT on of the guys accidentally dropped his flashlight while trying to twist it. OOPS! What's more quiet now?

What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

Well the meaning of 'loud' is subjective, but having said that I've never ever heard of a quiet clicky switch (well not as quiet as the electronic ones, such as those on my Photon Freedom, and Novatac 120T, anyways) If you've ever used a Photon Freedom, you know what I mean - it's like a forward switch, only that it's an electronic one, not mechanical like most.... and more silent than a Ninja's fart (yes even Mall Ninjas! )

Originally Posted by KeeperSD

If you are going to be stealthy you ARE NOT GOING TO USE A FLASHLIGHT

So do you propose humans should develop the ability to see at night? Oh, and don't attempt to refer to that 'Pitch Black' movie! Yes, radio is great... and that's another beast... another one of the many ways of communication.

Anyways, it has never hurted anyone, that a flashlight switch is quiet when operated.

Originally Posted by KeeperSD

I hate to tell you my FRIEND i understand quite a lot about noise discipline and being in a life threatening situation, do you?

Well, I don't know about that, because you sure are making yourself heard on this thread! BTw, that's a good thing.

Well I'm an expert on noise since I work in the Noise Industry, and let me tell you (without going into private details) that at the dead of night can rival the silence of the sound studio's we work in.

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

People who depend on firearms for their own well being have very specific needs in a flashlight. Any police, sheriff, FBI, military person etc. trained in the use of a light for duty would refer to that light as a "Tactical" light". As posted in another post it has a specific planned purpose.

Lights can have other "planned purposes" other than Police/Military use and could be tactical for that specific purpose. A person who inspects say mine shafts or gas wells may need a light with specific characterisics to be safe in their field of use. It would be a light with a planned purpose.

My point is that lights can have specific characterisics based on certain needs. I would say the biggest need outside the everyday refridgerator raider would be the thousands and thousands of Police and Military users. When they want to look for a light I'm sure the easiest method would be to find all the lights that state Tactical and just pick from that lot. Unfortunately nothing is ever that easy. Even the specifics of a Tactical light could change from one police agency to another or from one country to another. So where do these characterisitcs that make a flashlight a Tactical light start and end and to whose set of criteria?

Each light must be taken on each of its characteristics and chosen based on those characteristics, user reviews, and proven testing. I don't think we can get to caught up in what a light is called because there is no specific set of rules from manufacturer to manufacturer, and I doubt that will ever happen on a flashlight.

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

If you're close enough to hear the click, you're close enough to see the blinding light no matter which direction it's pointed. If you want complete darkness, they make something call NVG...

I would love to know 2 things:

1) How do you seem to know so much about a subject in which you have absolutely NO experience?

2) How have you managed to give a negative mini-review of a light (T1) which NO ONE owns yet, including yourself?? You always seem to have opinions about all the Fenix lights, but you don't even own ONE... That doesn't entitle you to make ANY opinions about their form or function, as you DON'T KNOW!!

BTW, the forward switch on my Energizer Cree from SamsClub is both a forward mechanical clickie, and SILENT. So HA!

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

Originally Posted by xiaowenzu

So do you propose humans should develop the ability to see at night?

Humans already do, hence the reason the our pupil's dilate and constrict to regulate the amount of light that enters the eye and hence provide a natural form of night vision. One that has been relied on for many years prior to NVG becoming available. Now we also have NVG that have already been mentioned.

Originally Posted by xiaowenzu

Anyways, it has never hurted anyone, that a flashlight switch is quiet when operated.

If you want a quiet switch on your flashlight then great, power to you, however it is not high on my priorities and certainly doesn't define if a light is tactical or not.

Originally Posted by xiaowenzu

His words had an audible quality to it... heck, my ears are still ringing from it!

I am not posting to argue every point with you, i too don't like the word Tactical, ask GlenC what i called the phrase when he asked me, but you continue to post information as if it is fact even after being shown why it is incorrect or not necessarily accurate

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

As a matter of information, the practice of hitting the "Report Post" icon for each post that you find unfavorable is becoming tiresome. Such improper use of it could well be considered abuse of the system, and could be handled accordingly.

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

Oh yeah and there's NVG, forgot that one. I was thinking of a pirate eye patch. I hear ya on that one BigD64, I have to use my red led Stylus when the wicked witch of the midwest has a migrane day and has to have all lights off.

One thing that I'm suprised that slipped all of our minds is the experience of the person using the flashlight and how well they maintain it. A new guy who hasn't much real world tactical experiances with flashlights may not be as skilled with a twisty, expecially if it's "just a flashlight" to him and doesn't properly maintain it and the threads get all rough and gritty. If I remember correctly the dude on the swat show was relativlely new, just a wee bit nervous and it may be possible he didn't even clean the threads before use.

What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

Thanks for all the input, guys! There sure are some valid points being made..

Like everyone, I too am annoyed at lights, which describe themselves as being ‘tactical lights’ when they’re obviously not. It just skews the meaning of the terminology for the average Joe. Next thing you know, manufacturers will start calling their $2 plastic light, as “Weapon lights” simply because it can be used to ‘fight the darkness’.. and they’d use the dictionary definition as their defence. So, but where does that leave the actual REALweapon-lights that are mounted on firearms & used in combat by SWAT teams, FBI agents, and military operations, etc?

It just confuses everyone; now the same thing is happening to the word ‘tactical’ but thankfully we flashoholics are smart enough to know the REAL deals from the wannabes.  Hey, I could use my Pen-light to pick my nose using great tactics, but heck I’d never dare to call it a ‘tactical light’ – it’s simply not worthy of that honor.

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

xiaowenzu ... your posting history indicates an omnipresent pattern where Fenix / Chinese lights are attacked and SF lights are elevated. While no such post on its own is problematic, the context on the long run suggests an agenda that not only reduces your credibility with those stereotypes, but it also seems to be annoying for the other members, when looking at the reactions your posts are provoking.

May I (or make that "we", CPF staff) suggest a change in posting style in order to avoid looking like a blind brand loyalist, or someone with a grudge ... or ... in the worst case ... like a troll?

Thank you for considering.

bernie

There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content. - paulr
It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black.
My shoes are too tight. But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

Please keep on the topic, guys! Okay you can still talk about 'Vegetarian nut cracks' but it has to be done in a tactical way. hehehee

Originally Posted by BigD64

Tactical actually means using my SF Kroma on low red to sneak into bed without waking the wicked witch of the east. [content removed due to being inappropriate for CPF discussion]

That's an amazing light BigD!

Yep, the SF Kroma, sure is a genuine tactical light, as defined by Paul Kim, of Surefire... it has a Tailcap switch: press for momentary-on low beams, press further for momentary-on high white beam; twist for constant-on low or high beams... this ensures almost silent operation.

Well, I'm sure that NVG (night vision goggles) have their place in SWAT, military, special agent operations, etc... but Flashlights also have their places too... that's why you still see lights mounted onto soldiers guns, SWAT member's guns, and FBI don't always wear NVGs. IMO, the googles are of course another piece of tactical equipment, albiet a different kind of beast... but the subject we are discussing here is 'flashlights'.

As I mentioned before it's very important to have equipment which can perform as quietly, effectively as possible. Because every little noise adds up in the end, and no-one on a tactical team would want to risk giving away their position... ie losing their life.

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

Originally Posted by xiaowenzu

As I mentioned before it's very important to have equipment which can perform as quietly, effectively as possible. Because every little noise adds up in the end, and no-one on a tactical team would want to risk giving away their position... ie losing their life.

As mentioned before, retina scorching light will give your position away LONG before a pindrop of a sound.

If you're being "uber stealthy" you have NVG or night adapted eyes. If you're busting drug dealers in metropolis, you're knocking down doors, which kind of drowns out the sound of a clickie switch...

Sounds like someone has been taken in by the "tactical marketing" of some particular company. cough cough, Paul Kim

BTW, weapons lights are there for the purpose of blinding your enemy (and illuminating them to shoot them), often while shouting at them to surrender. In those circumstances, I think they have once again realized you are there without hearing your first.

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

Originally Posted by xiaowenzu

But the loud sound of a clicky non-tactical light would alert your enemies BEFORE, you even get a chance to bust down the doors... or jump their backs. HAHAHA

I have yet to hear a clickie so loud as it can be heard through a closed door, no matter how cheap, crappy, ill designed the switch is. Also, I also have yet to hear of a bad guy sitting alone, in a dark room with no ambient sound, waiting, thinking to himself "I just have to listen for the click. That will give them away, and I'll have the jump on them as they bust down my door, flashbang me, and come running in yelling with assault rifles and weapon lights pointed at me."

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

Originally Posted by Marduke

I have yet to hear a clickie so loud as it can be heard through a closed door, no matter how cheap, crappy, ill designed the switch is. Also, I also have yet to hear of a bad guy sitting alone, in a dark room with no ambient sound, waiting, thinking to himself

Great video, there! But.... LOL, Well, not all tactical operations involve closed doors or kicking them down, like in Hong Kong movies. In real life, the teams could be positioning right above the enemy, in the ceiling. and also, MOST tactical operations are conducted in the dead of night where even a leaf falling can be heard a room away.

The question is, would a tactical SWAT team want to even RISK being heard, by using a LOUD clicky light?

Lives are at stake, my friend.... don't make the wrong Choice. Buy a Surefire today, for some enlightenment.

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

Originally Posted by xiaowenzu

Great video, there! But.... LOL, Well, not all tactical operations involve closed doors or kicking them down, like in Hong Kong movies. In real life, the teams could be positioning right above the enemy, in the ceiling. and also, MOST tactical operations are conducted in the dead of night where even a leaf falling can be heard a room away.

The question is, would a tactical SWAT team want to even RISK being heard, by using a LOUD clicky light?

Lives are at stake, my friend.... don't make the wrong Choice. Buy a Surefire today, for some enlightenment.

1) That video was real life, not a Hong Kong action flick. Did you not notice the multiple use of flashbangs? They are also used at night, even more heavily.

2) In a TRUE tactical operation, you won't be using ANY flashlight until you're A) blinding someone or B) doing a secondary search after the fun has ended.

3) Most tactical operations in the US are fast and loud, as to not give the bad guy a chance to respond. Part of the core training is be fast, loud, and aggressive.

4) Would an officer want to risk DROPPING a light while trying to operate the twisty one-handed, or worse yet not have it work because he forgot it was locked out so the sensitive momentary (common with twist momentaries) wouldn't come on at a bad time (giving away his position) while in his belt?

5) That last line sounds like you haven't read the new TROLL warning...

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

4) Would an officer want to risk DROPPING a light while trying to operate the twisty one-handed, or worse yet not have it work because he forgot it was locked out so the sensitive momentary (common with twist momentaries) wouldn't come on at a bad time (giving away his position) while in his belt?

Well I do have to admit that because of exactly these issues, that is why my husband uses a Surefire for his tactical missions... and so does the rest of our SWAT team... No one has had a single "failure" yet.

I still have to agree though that xiaowenzu's style needs some improvement. Remember... it's not what you say... it's how you say it...

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

Originally Posted by Sasha

Well I do have to admit that because of exactly these issues, that is why my husband uses a Surefire for his tactical missions... and so does the rest of our SWAT team... No one has had a single "failure" yet.

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

Originally Posted by Sasha

Well I do have to admit that because of exactly these issues, that is why my husband uses a Surefire for his tactical missions... and so does the rest of our SWAT team... No one has had a single "failure" yet.

I still have to agree though that xiaowenzu's style needs some improvement. Remember... it's not what you say... it's how you say it...

Thanks for being with me, Sasha and.... Umm.. sorry, my grammar is not too eloquent.. so everyone should bear with me, but yeap, I agree it's without a doubt that SWAT teams would choose tactical lights over loud clicky non-tactical lights. Sometimes a situation calls for 'Loud Bust in and blind opponent' tactics, but sometimes the mission is covert. It really all depends on the circumstances, but one thing can't be denied is that having a silently operated light affords you more advantages. Cheers.

Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

Originally Posted by xiaowenzu

Sometimes a situation calls for 'Loud Bust in and blind opponent' tactics, but sometimes the mission is covert. It really all depends on the circumstances, but one thing can't be denied is that having a silently operated light affords you more advantages.

Originally Posted by xiaowenzu

But the loud sound of a clicky non-tactical light would alert your enemies BEFORE, you even get a chance to bust down the doors... or jump their backs. HAHAHA

If the situation calls for covert then using a light when you are approaching the scene is definately out, i don't know how this is so hard to understand. Well adapted natural night vision provides enough vision to silently approach a scene prior to needing the light to illuminate the scene. As for hearing it through a door, i would be more concerned about the light being seen under the door or through a window than the slight click the light may make at the same time as the light is being switched on.

Originally Posted by xiaowenzu

MOST tactical operations are conducted in the dead of night where even a leaf falling can be heard a room away

Please show your source for this FACT........

Your posting style has nothing to do with grammar, it is the fact that you can't see another point of view, and even when corrected you continue with unfounded information.