swerb wrote:Whats the odds on Roby staying? And where will John Simon get drafted?

Coin toss on Roby. If he were a guy that needed to support his family I would say 100% gone, but luckily he is not. He is a guy that is a 2-3rd rounder if he stays or a guy that could potentially be a top 10 guy if he comes back and repeats last year, but plays a little more physical at the line. I say 50:50 on Roby, I honestly don't think he even knows what he is doing. Meyer may be able to sell him on a Captaincy next year, to get him back.

Simon is a very tough one to project, he is a tweener in the NFL. To small to play DE, not fast enough for 3-4 OLB, but he is a productive player and an effort guy that you know will succeed. I say he is a 3rd rounder or so if he puts up the unreal combine strength numbers we expect and drops a time in the 4.7s.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

swerb wrote:Whats the odds on Roby staying? And where will John Simon get drafted?

Coin toss on Roby. If he were a guy that needed to support his family I would say 100% gone, but luckily he is not. He is a guy that is a 2-3rd rounder if he stays or a guy that could potentially be a top 10 guy if he comes back and repeats last year, but plays a little more physical at the line. I say 50:50 on Roby, I honestly don't think he even knows what he is doing. Meyer may be able to sell him on a Captaincy next year, to get him back.

Simon is a very tough one to project, he is a tweener in the NFL. To small to play DE, not fast enough for 3-4 OLB, but he is a productive player and an effort guy that you know will succeed. I say he is a 3rd rounder or so if he puts up the unreal combine strength numbers we expect and drops a time in the 4.7s.

Does this description remind anyone else of Mike Kudla?

How different is Simon from Kudla? I know it's just because I'm a homer, but I was always surprised he didn't at least have mild NFL success.

Mike Kudla, Simon Frasier, Vernon Gholston, Quinn "The Video Gamer" Pitock, if there is any one type of player coming out of OSU that consistently blows in the pros it's the workout warriors with limited athleticism (yes, Gholston was fast, but he was only fast running straight).

Look for Simon to be the next in the line of meh to shit.

I half expect Zach Boren to have a longer pro career just because a guy like him will always be a special teams monster and can serve as an emergency back-up wherever (H-Back, FB, LB, etc).

e0y2e3 wrote:Mike Kudla, Simon Frasier, Vernon Gholston, Quinn "The Video Gamer" Pitock, if there is any one type of player coming out of OSU that consistently blows in the pros it's the workout warriors with limited athleticism (yes, Gholston was fast, but he was only fast running straight).

Look for Simon to be the next in the line of meh to shit.

I half expect Zach Boren to have a longer pro career just because a guy like him will always be a special teams monster and can serve as an emergency back-up wherever (H-Back, FB, LB, etc).

Those guys tend to suck no matter what school they come out of.

Simon was much more productive than Frasier and Kudla (both went undrafted I believe). I think he'll find a role in the NFL but he won't be a star and might not even start.

You're right about Boren. Hopefully for him he finds a place that still utilizes the FB, and then he can play ST and be an emergy LB too. I would say his versatility perfect for NE except they don't use a FB.

And as much as replacing 4 DL starters sucks, Spence and Schutt over Williams and Goebel might be an upgrade right away, and definitely will be in the near future. Williams added a missing dimension to this year's D but he didn't make a whole lot of plays. Goebel was solid and underrated, but he too didn't make a lot of plays. I think Spence and Schutt will make plays.

swerb wrote:Whats the odds on Roby staying? And where will John Simon get drafted?

Coin toss on Roby. If he were a guy that needed to support his family I would say 100% gone, but luckily he is not. He is a guy that is a 2-3rd rounder if he stays or a guy that could potentially be a top 10 guy if he comes back and repeats last year, but plays a little more physical at the line. I say 50:50 on Roby, I honestly don't think he even knows what he is doing. Meyer may be able to sell him on a Captaincy next year, to get him back.

Simon is a very tough one to project, he is a tweener in the NFL. To small to play DE, not fast enough for 3-4 OLB, but he is a productive player and an effort guy that you know will succeed. I say he is a 3rd rounder or so if he puts up the unreal combine strength numbers we expect and drops a time in the 4.7s.

Does this description remind anyone else of Mike Kudla?

How different is Simon from Kudla? I know it's just because I'm a homer, but I was always surprised he didn't at least have mild NFL success.

Kudla is a very good comparison (unfortunately), but I think Simon plays with a bit better leverage (hence the success when he was a DT) and is a tad more athletic. He is also a high effort sort that coaches and teams may take a flyer on. I think 3-4th might be a bit optimistic, but I could see someone reaching. Love Simon as a college player, just not sure there is a spot for him in the league, just like Kudla.

Folks here forget what a good player Kudla was in 2005, he was solid. His season in 2005 compares with Simon's last year pretty well. Again, he is a guy with retard strength and decent speed, but in the league all the OL are retardedly strong and relatively quick.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

neoleo wrote:And as much as replacing 4 DL starters sucks, Spence and Schutt over Williams and Goebel might be an upgrade right away, and definitely will be in the near future. Williams added a missing dimension to this year's D but he didn't make a whole lot of plays. Goebel was solid and underrated, but he too didn't make a lot of plays. I think Spence and Schutt will make plays.

I have never been a Nate Williams fan, except for his freshman year when it looked like he would develop and be a player. He was the best option this year, and proved to be a bigtime warrior, but it is unfortunate that he was the starter at one of the most important, playmaker positions on a team, WDE. He sure didn't make a ton of plays, but he was solid.

That said, there was a big drop off when Spence came in. He is quick, but that is all he is right now. He reminds me of a young Thad Gibson; if the tackles gets into him, it is over... he is getting blown out of the play. He really is a one trick pony right now, relying almost completely on a quick first step to the outside. He has great talent, but if we are thinking he will be an upgrade next year we will be sadly disappointed. He needs to develop a TON of strength in order to stop being a liability against the run. He needs to use his hand better to break contact with the OT and he needs to learn some pass rush moves.

Goebel was a very good player this year. He did exactly what he was supposed to do, line up at the 0/1 and take on the center and or SS guard. He did not make a lot of plays that get stats, but he did keep the MLB clear to make plays. Zach Boren owes a lot of his success to Goebel and Hankins. The Buckeyes did not ask Schutt to two gap much (at least not that I noticed), and I wouldn't expect them to line up a true frosh to 2 gap; they just are not physically ready. Schutt did a great job penetrating while playing 1 Gap and that is certainly a good sign, but don't discount Garrett Goebel's contribution just because he didn't get a ton of sacks or make a bunch of tackles.

I actually think Washington replacing Simon will be an upgrade. Sounds crazy, but Washington is physically ready to play, and is a much better athlete than Simon, especially once he loses his "DT" weight. Washington will play in the low 270s next year and he will be a FACTOR.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

neoleo wrote:And as much as replacing 4 DL starters sucks, Spence and Schutt over Williams and Goebel might be an upgrade right away, and definitely will be in the near future. Williams added a missing dimension to this year's D but he didn't make a whole lot of plays. Goebel was solid and underrated, but he too didn't make a lot of plays. I think Spence and Schutt will make plays.

I have never been a Nate Williams fan, except for his freshman year when it looked like he would develop and be a player. He was the best option this year, and proved to be a bigtime warrior, but it is unfortunate that he was the starter at one of the most important, playmaker positions on a team, WDE. He sure didn't make a ton of plays, but he was solid.

That said, there was a big drop off when Spence came in. He is quick, but that is all he is right now. He reminds me of a young Thad Gibson; if the tackles gets into him, it is over... he is getting blown out of the play. He really is a one trick pony right now, relying almost completely on a quick first step to the outside. He has great talent, but if we are thinking he will be an upgrade next year we will be sadly disappointed. He needs to develop a TON of strength in order to stop being a liability against the run. He needs to use his hand better to break contact with the OT and he needs to learn some pass rush moves.

Goebel was a very good player this year. He did exactly what he was supposed to do, line up at the 0/1 and take on the center and or SS guard. He did not make a lot of plays that get stats, but he did keep the MLB clear to make plays. Zach Boren owes a lot of his success to Goebel and Hankins. The Buckeyes did not ask Schutt to two gap much (at least not that I noticed), and I wouldn't expect them to line up a true frosh to 2 gap; they just are not physically ready. Schutt did a great job penetrating while playing 1 Gap and that is certainly a good sign, but don't discount Garrett Goebel's contribution just because he didn't get a ton of sacks or make a bunch of tackles.

I actually think Washington replacing Simon will be an upgrade. Sounds crazy, but Washington is physically ready to play, and is a much better athlete than Simon, especially once he loses his "DT" weight. Washington will play in the low 270s next year and he will be a FACTOR.

Great points. I do think Spence will get stronger, as Pup says. Plus I don't think Williams was that much better. He was one dimensional too, he could sometimes get around the end but didn't make sacks when he got there. He wasn't great at stopping the run. The biggest difference is he was able to drop into coverage to help disguise the defensive look, which is something Spence looked lost when trying, but Williams didn't make plays when he did that either. I think a stronger Spence with a better understanding of the defense will be an upgrade, based on how he was showing at the end of the year.

I definitely am not overlooking Goebel, dude was as solid as you can get. We probably won't have that pure NT next year, so your point is valid, but I do like Schutt and Bennett. They probably won't play the position the same as Goebel did, but they'll be more disruptive (whether that leads to a more productive D is the question).

I agree on Washington. Dude's gonna be a beast at SSDE.

It's crazy to think that our DL can still be good when you're replacing all 4 starters, and no matter how we get there, that's the overall point I'm trying to make.

e0y2e3 wrote:I think when discussing Spence it's unjust to not mention that he did certainly improve as the year went on.

Absolutely a fair point Lee. You cannot coach the athletic ability that Spence has, you just have to hope that you can coach the athlete. Spence is a freak athlete, and hopefully he develops. Based on what I have been reading out of the Shrine Bowl practices you can expect Tyquan Lewis to push him.

Speaking of Lewis, I gotta give the staff credit on that one. I was surprised at the speed of the recruiting process on that kid and I was really perplexed about how hard the staff went after such a lowly rated recruit so early. Then I saw his senior highlights.... Wow. They aren't Jamal Marcus or Jadeveon Clowney highlights, but they are pretty damn impressive.

Only issue I see with Schutt and Bennett upfront is that both are really one gap/penetration type players (at this point). I think Schutt could develop into a true NT, hell he may be able to do it this year.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

e0y2e3 wrote:I fully anticipate Hale taking on some of the Goebel role next year.

I agree. He is strong, short limbed, and plays with good leverage. He is more of a "hold the line" sort, but he will not make stat sheet plays (just like Goebel). I gotta say have two high quality penetration players at DT at the same time is pretty exciting, but our MLB (whoever that is) better be ready to take on the center!

That is pretty much the wet dream of a center right Lee? Unopposed to the second level right at a 225lb MLB with 7 yard head of steam? Probably knock that guy right on his ass and go straight at the free safety!

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

There were lots of rumors that he was leaning toward staying, but this is very reassuring. He was probably a 2nd/3rd round guy in this year's draft with an outside shot at the late first. Next year, he could be a top 10 pick based on being on a team that will get a LOT of pub, oh yeah, and he is the best cover corner we have seen at tOSU since maybe Gamble or perhaps even back to the 90s golden era of tOSU DBs.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.