It's some of the same old people posting with the same old ignorant and uninformed argument and simplistic attitudes that just don't jive with today's
sociological, medical and scientific understanding of sex and gender. Jesus effing Christ on a stick people! (for the sensitive, that was a vulgarity,
not a comment on religion)

I was originally drawn to this site over nine years ago because it made me think. It made me learn about things and different perspectives and my
knowledge grew as I tried to follow the site's motto to deny ignorance. I continue to learn and expand and grow and it makes me wonder why those so
rigidly brain locked and close-minded even come to a site like this except to regurgitate their own canned dogma and response and knowledge that
doesn't seem to have progressed beyond what they learned in 7th grade health class. Let's try to raise the bar around here and get back to that site
that was full of interesting, inquisitive and thinking people with minds receptive to learning and understanding new things. What's that motto again?
Deny ignorance - not perpetuate and spread it.

Open your eyes folks. Gender non-conforming people are all around you, always have been and always will be. The language and terminology may have
progressed a bit and society's awareness of the diversity of the human condition has broadened as has acceptance of the fact that not all people fit
neatly into black and white little boxes but when it comes to people that are queer, trans or don't quite fit the gender stereotypical mold, that
hasn't changed. Not one bit. Some new labels may have been devised to describe these things that don't quite fit the either/or binary but being gender
variant is as old as humankind.

I've spent the last year and half here talking about all things transgender and in particular, children and have tried to bring research, information
and knowledge to my fellow members to help with their understanding of these things. This is somewhat my area of study and expertise because it also
my perspective and experience in life. While being transgender and gender non-conforming is not the same thing, both are relevant to a thread such as
this.

If you believe that non-typical gender expression is something that can be caused or promoted or that this is something foisted on children by their
misguided parents or follow-the-leader pressure from peers or the media or something in the water, in most cases you would be completely wrong.

People are born male, female or with a multitude of various anatomical or genetic intersex conditions. Although predisposed by our wiring and prenatal
chemical influences toward certain gendered behaviors, as we establish our own individual personalities and identities from infancy, our understanding
of ourselves as boys or girls is at the central core of that development. Any book will tell you this. What sex we are and how we express that by
displays and performance of expected gendered behaviors is at the heart and soul of everyone regardless of who or what you are although most are
likely oblivious to this fact. These things are innate and built into who we are a people.

Because I've slept about six hours since Friday morning and it is now nearly 3:30 AM on Tuesday morning, let me just rant about this in my altered
state... Let me get some wine too because I plan to sleep all day tomorrow.

Once again, I'll put myself out there as an example so that others may learn from my perspective. I was born with a male body but there's never been a
time in my life that the gendered behaviors and roles and parts that went along with all of that ever fit in with who I was as a person or with my
heart and soul. To myself, I was just a girl with some odd complications and in a weird situation.

From an outward point of view, as a boy child I was what today would be labeled as gender non-conforming, gender variant, gender expansive or
non-binary, etc. Take your pick, they're all different PC terms describing the same thing. There were no words to describe these things in the 1950's,
polite ones anyway, nor was there a whole lot of social acceptance for those that were different in these ways. A lot of things were misunderstood and
hidden away back then but here's another point of view to consider in all this: Mine.

Had I been born with a female body, my non-conforming behaviors, personality and emotional and psychological makeup and my own sense of who I was
WOULD have been conforming and typical. This gross dichotomy between the mind/spirit and the physical reality brought awareness and perspective of
this fundamental problem to me as a very young child. As far back as I can remember things anyhow. I've never known anything different or felt myself
to be the gender that went along with the parts I came out of the womb with.

As a kid, even a 4 or 5 year old kid, you know things aren't right even if you can't put your finger on it and it forces you to gain a certain
awareness of these things at a depth of understanding far exceeding chronological years and in ways that even most adults can't comprehend. People
often say kids are too young to know what they are but they do. Didn't you? Weren't most of you pretty sure you were boys or girls at a young age?
Could anyone ever have changed your mind about that? Gender is completely entrenched in who we are.

Who I am and who I know myself to be has never changed, wavered or been questioned. For others, sometimes these things aren't so clearly defined so
they do question, they do experiment, they do break some of the rules trying to find themselves. After all, isn't growing up supposed to be about
finding out who we are and defining ourselves as people or at least something we hope we can all do one day?

As I got older and gained a little agency in life the more able I was to show the rest of the world who I was and the less I became willing to even
attempt to meet the expectations of the gender roles, behaviors and appearance typically associated with my sex at birth. This isn't something I "did"
or decided. It all happened normally and organically.

It started earlier but by 16 and 17 you would have had a hard time figuring out if I was a boy or a girl unless you got to know me then it was pretty
obvious but hella weird and confusing to people. Outwardly, I was neither or both but inwardly, I was only one - the same one I'd always been and the
same one I still am. From 18 onward, I was socially and legally known only as a girl and now at nearly 62, I've lived my entire adult life as just a
regular woman. There was the whole sex change thing in there too but let's not turn that into part of this discussion.

Another thing that gets my goat and especially here at ATS. So many of you fuss that the educational system, society or the government is churning out
mindless monochromatic drones and that there is some evil social agenda or programming at work to turn our kids all into sheep conditioned to obey but
when someone does express their diversity or individuality by existing somewhere in-between the masculine/feminine - male/female binary, then they get
shunned, mocked or ridiculed rather than celebrated and honored. I find that rather ironic.

I can't speak for non-binary or people somewhere along the spectrum of gender because I myself do fit into the binary and into the traditional but I
certainly don't put it upon myself to attempt to define other people. That's not my job. That right is reserved for the individual as I'm sure
everyone would protest if someone tried to tell you who you are.

Not that I haven't already written tens of thousands of words about this in other threads but if someone is seriously interested in knowing more about
kids like I was or has legitimate and considerate questions or desires a more in-depth discussion, I'm game as long as you're respectful. I'm kind of
unique around here and present the opportunity for others to get things straight from the horse's mouth as it were. 82% of people have never knowingly
met someone transgender. (which isn't a word I use to describe myself) Fewer have ever spoken to someone that has actually changed sex. Even fewer
than that have ever have ever spoken with someone that was a trans child (former member JadeStar excluded - she was the only one I have ever
known personally.)

If you are going to comment, I also ask that you be original. Check my post history - I've heard all the negativity and detractions imaginable and
find them tiresome and redundant. Surprise me ATS! Turn this into a chance to learn, grow and expand your understanding and not just another thread
ragging on trans and gender non-conforming folk with ill-informed rhetoric.

Beyond dead tired and finally headed horizontal but my intent was to open up an actual thoughtful discussion to maybe help ATS get back to its roots
and for this not just be another thread of one or two-liners of people showing how poorly informed or how opinionated they are.

Non-binary? Oh boy, how long before parents start turning their children into plants? A 10y old child has not developed an own identity yet so why not
stop plaguing their mind with the extra bull#. Enough of it is already there.

The fact, that the mother went public with this, baffles me and I seriously question sanity in this case.

Yeah... His mom likes all the attention just as much as him.
As for kids not being sexually developed at that age.. Boy you, wouldn't have wanted to see me between the ages of 2 and 6.
Trust me, kids have 'impure' feelings to, they just have no idea what the hell is going on.

The world needs to stop shouting lgbt pc nonsense from everywhere... Why can't the media just report on facts, as unbiased observers. Why is there so
much opinion to a job that's supposed to be all about facts and reporting the facts as they happened.

The world got caught up in a craze caring to much about everyone's feelings.
Kids are still dying Africa from hunger, yet these kids get all the attention. What is wrong with everyone?

Not threatened, but uncomfortable.
We don't want to know about these things, but the media wants us to know, heck, every lgbt member wants us to know.
They have parades, they must be 'proud', they must shove it in your face at every opportunity.

If they din't tell us, we wouldn't complain.
I'm not basing this off nonsense..
The media is just putting ideas into people's heads.. And obviously kids heads intern.

10 is too young.
10 year olds do not even know what it is to be a man or woman.
They are CHILDREN.
Some young boys are very feminine, some young girls are tom-boyish.
No need to convince them that they are some special exotic hybrid, because most likely, they are not.
just a confused kid with improper guidance.

Well good for him. Doesn't affect me any way the cards are laid. While I don't fully understand gender fluidity, I feel that I understand it to an
extent. Although I identify as a female, and was born a female, and will likely always refer to myself as a woman, with female pronouns...... I enjoy
the ambiguous appearance most days. I like looking very masculine some days, no makeup, hair clipped up under a fitted hat, fresh kicks, sweats, and a
tshirt...... and other days I enjoy doing my hair and makeup and putting on a pair of stilettos.

SO I'm not really sure if any of that is similar to being gender fluid, but I feel like it helps me be more compassionate towards others in this
regard, because I understand it's natural to not conform to societies gender laws, even if its the minority that experience this. You are who you are
in body and in soul regardless of what any language labels you as.

Non gender conforming seems closest to how I roll, but then maybe not because I am ok with only being referred to as a female. I actually don't care
what anyone refers to me as now that I think about it. I am who I am, a label doesn't dictate that.

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o
10 is too young.
10 year olds do not even know what it is to be a man or woman.
They are CHILDREN.
Some young boys are very feminine, some young girls are tom-boyish.
No need to convince them that they are some special exotic hybrid, because most likely, they are not.
just a confused kid with improper guidance.

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