Need some input on rim choice and tires

Bit of a newb still but just got a new fork (manitou tower pro w/15mm axle) and forced myself to buy a new wheelset with the larger front axle so after much searching and debate decided on stans but trying to decide on either arch or flows, found that flows are stronger and wider? So is wider better?
Tried calling some local shops on this tires but got no where go figure figured the local mtb riders would know a good tire for the trails here....Going to go tubeless, im not a hardcore rider, the trails here have river type rocks sticking out of the dirt and kinda hard dirt with little bit of loose dirt on top, now I only get to the trails maybe on weekends and during the week I ride by my house on pavement to get ride time and exercise.

The wheels are gonna break me so dont have alot left to buy different tires and seems they are not all that cheap either so hope for some good suggestions.
Just to clarify, do I need the flows or will arches do fine? Good tires for me?

Right now I am around 212lbs and dropping slowly, bike is a 2013 trek wahoo, not sure what else you need to know just let me know.
Thanks!!

I would go with the Flows. I just purchased a pair and am getting them built up now. I like wide rims, I have Salsa Gordos on my SS. I also went with Maxxis Ardent 2.4s. I don't have the Gordos set up tubless but I don't think I need to. With a wide rim I don't get many flats or pinch flats, thorns are another story that's where the tubeless helps.

Ok sounds good then, the color part was hard to accept cause I wanted red since the hubs on the bike now came with red which go with its color scheme and why I picked it.
After I got the fork however it only comes in white that I really didnt want but what you gonna do lol, looking at it I thought red hubs would clash with the fork so gonna get the black ones and save a few buks to

Sounds like a sweet wheelset. I'm in the Sac area and have been running flows with lightish tires (I like the extra wide footprint). So far, I haven't run into very demanding conditions, but various Kenda tires have been serving me well. Most of my rides involve 20+ miles of Tarmac on the ART, so fast tread is paramount to me.

"Paved roads...just another example of needless government spending"—paraphrased from rhino_adv

Should all fit into your budget for a solid fool proof tubeless system.

since you talk about wheels breaking your budget, I would go with this setup initially, very nice to your budget and will allow you more money for different tires which are far more important. can't go wrong with shimano hubs and i have these rims at 250lbs so far they are great.

Sounds like your budget is under $1000 ? There are lots of choices out there.
Here are a few recommendations especially if you plan to ride more and see more of the trails in your area. For additional tire choices, you may want to check the N.California area folder and post up for some recommendations from the local riders -

Thanks I will check that section, like to find others to ride with to.
Yea less then $1000 wanted to be more around the $600 range which Ghisallo Wheels got me in that range, I was going to go right through Stans web store where you can build your wheels with various options but that came to $775 with hope hubs.

Those continental tires look pretty good!
So does that set sound like a good worthy set?

Thanks again

I'm kind of down on Stan's rims right now. Do a search for spoke tension and flows. When you build these wheels up, you get the spoke tension right, then when you mount a tire the wheel goes slack. Bottom line the beads fit very tight. So tight it can be difficult to mount and dismount tires. I'd never build a stan's rims for my wife or younger son because they'd never be about to change a tire on the trail.

The flow my older son has on the front performs fine and has been a reliable tubeless rig. But it doesn't offer any benefit over the i23 rims on my bike and the i19 my son has on the rear of his bike, and the i# rims are easier to air up, easier to mount and unmount, and even more secure at lower pressures.

go for a used 29er wheelset, the market seems to be flooded with them in the $250 to $400 range --- check ebay, mtbr classified, and also pinkbike buy/sell.

I hate to harp on it, but i wouldnt go used when i could get that set from jenson for under 200. To the op, you already stated your a bit of a newb. Start with the jenson wheels then save up a couple more months and buy your "dream wheels". As someone over 200lbs i wouldnt want to be messing around with rims that have known tensioning problems

You could consider Sun Ringle Charger (Flow) or Blackflag (Arch)wheelset. Couple of people here ride them and seem pretty happy with them. Range of models from around $350 to $650. They have Stan's BST rim profiles. Comes with all adapters for 9mm, 15mm,or 20mm front. They also come with rim tape and sealant.

I recently purchased a NEW set of Stan's Flow EX 29" wheels with Stan's 3.30 HD hubs for $479.00 shipped on eBay. I set them up with Schwalbe Racing Ralph's. I went 2.4 on the front and 2.25 on the rear. I'm in SoCal, hard pack with loose gravel. I am very happy with wheelset so far. Tires are great as well. I run Nobby Nics on my 26" bike and I don't like them as much as the Racing Ralphs.

I have owned more than a dozen wheelsets over the seasons. I usually have more trouble deciding on hubs than the rims. I currently have DT Swiss hubs built on Stan's Flow's which have had no issues w/ a season's use. I have had trouble, in the past, w/ damaging rim sidewalls which have not happened w/ the Flows (lowered sidewall ? Maybe). Don't think you can go wrong w/ WTB's or Flows. If you ride hard or don't run enough air you will kill any rim. Improper initial build or lack of tension will also hurt any rim. I really like the DT hubs and the 350 is a cheaper alternative to the 240.

More then likely I will just go with my list I posted, flows with white hubs...price isnt bad the builder has good rep. Far as the dream set I dont really have one in mind, dont know enough obviously to decide what would be considered a dream set, maybe carbon fiber? lol...really was set on hope 2 hubs but saving $125 seems alot just to get red hubs so black it is

Sure I will be back, plans to upgrade other items later but these 2 things were the most costly(fork and wheels) so thats done....next is maybe brakes, shifters or cranks. This bike came with pretty low stuff so plan was going in to upgrade as I could...

btw is their anything I need to know about swapping my cog set from wheel to the next? Its a 24sp right now but like to up that when I do shifters.

Went to performance yesterday and picked up the park cassette tool and their brand chain whip, girlfriend paid for it for a late xmas gift lol...she also picked up one tire but not sure now if its a good choice, the guy there siad he used it and would be good for the local trails and pavement its a stans raven, he suggested putting it on the rear and run something else up front...

They have a poor selection of tires and had to order the Stans but here are some I looked up online, what so you guys think?

I have no idea what the trails are like in Sacramento, but I would be hard pressed trying to find a balance between road and trail. Not sure what your road requirements are but I might consider putting some low resistance road worthy tires on your old wheel set and put some good trail tires on your new set. I don't think you will find a happy medium between the two.

So that in mind I understand there can be a lot of loose dirt. Someone already mentioned it. Maxxis Ignitors for the rear and a Panaracer rampage in the front. That is what I am running right now. A bit more rolling resistance for the rampage than I like but it makes up for it in traction and cornering. While I don't have one yet everything I have read the Schwalbe Nobby Nic for the front is probably hard to beat in terms of lightness, least rolling resistance, and cornering grip. Out of the ones you have listed though an I would think and Ardent 2.4 in the front would do well.

Actually have been thinking about the 2 tire setup, catch is I need to get the front wheel redone to fit the 15mm axle so maybe a reasonable hub nothing fancy.

Guess far as terrain its got river rock all over and a loose sandy like top layer then its pretty much hard dirt under that....this is my stock tires from bontrager and they slide around alot on the trail, other shot is the trail best one I got right now.

Kinda leaning towards for the front a knobby nic and racing ralph rear, both tubeless?

I am in the Bay Area CA and winter tires are fully knobbed front and rear - Panaracer Rampages. RR might be a good dry weather hardpack tire but I wouldn't want it for winter use - actually I wouldn't want a RR for any rocky riding as the sidewalls feel like TP.

I run a Nevegal up front and a Rapid Rob in the back, both set up tubeless on Stan's Crest wheels. Best combo I have found IMO, I am riding in pretty crappy, sloppy, muddy, rocky, rooty (and now snowy) conditions too on a regular basis.
The Nevegal has excellent side knobs to keep the front from washing out in the turns.
Also highly recommend Specialized Purgatory up front, Geax Saguaro TNT in the back...

I built a front wheel with an XT hub and a Flow rim - I'm 285 and it's been great. It is VERY hard to put a tire on though. I don't look forward to having to change a tube (yes, I'm still tubed - get off my lawn) on the trail. So far, so good.

I recently put Kenda Nevegals on front and back and I love them but they are noticeably slower than the Specialized Fast Tracks my bike came with. Much more grip though, especially in loose and muddy conditions. I wouldn't recommend them for pavement use however.

How about an ignitor rear and high roller up front? That was always my go to setup on my 26inch trail bike during the rainy season. Since I've converted to the 29ers...I've been rolling the racing Ralph rear and nobby nic front...both are snake skin versions. Works great in the dry and rolls fast. Haven't tried that combo in wet winter conditions yet...I've been trying to stay off the trails when it's wet to avoid treading and tearing up the land...my favorite trails don't seem to drain water very well.

For wheels...you should just get the least expensive option for the time being. It doesn't sound like your a weight weenie...and i doubt you will notice any difference between a 200 set vs a 650 dollar set right now. The big difference is gonna be weight/hub quality. Once you log some more miles on the bike, then consider a nicer wheelset. You will most likely appreciate it more later down the road. A nice wheelset is hands down one of the best investments you can make...and recommend saving for your "dream wheelset". I've got the arch ex/Stan's 3.30 hubs...and they are very nice for the money. I paid $425 plus tax from a local shop. But I bought them as a temporary replacement until I can save up for some carbon rims. Once you own a high end wheelset, it will spoil you, and you'll want them on every bike you ride its worth the wait!

Been debating on this a while but I like the nobby nic front and maybe the fast trak rear, totally forgot about specialized had tires but like the looks of that one.

Actually I do care about weight to a point, the bike is 30lbs right now and with a fork upgrade sitting here and new wheels it would be nice to get down to 25lbs or less at some point. Thing is I kinda need to splurge now as later I wont have say $650 laying around.
I am however looking now for maybe a inexpensive hub to get my stock front wheel rebuilt so I can get the fork mounted and least try the thing out then get soe pure street rubber for those wheels and call it a day, then use the nicer set for offroad.
Called the shop yesterday and he said a XT hub and rebuild would run me $150, seem good? Also tried seeing if by a miracle formula makes a adapter set for my current hubs but dont see anything but I sent a email to see what they say.

Called the shop yesterday and he said a XT hub and rebuild would run me $150, seem good? Also tried seeing if by a miracle formula makes a adapter set for my current hubs but dont see anything but I sent a email to see what they say.

Thanks again

why on earth would you consider that good when we have already directed you to a brand new wheelset front and rear with xt hubs that costs less than $200. no it's a terrible move. first of all, xt hubs aren't even light so if your looking to get another hub and relace and save weight, thats not it. 2nd, if you don't get a new hub with the same flange dimensions, you are also going to need new spokes, thats where some of the additional expense comes in. 3rd. labor for a wheel build is about $50 so ultimately, the price he quoted you is a fair price but it is certainly NOT your best option. As for having the money now but not later, exercise some discipline and don't spend it! (pot meet kettle!) seriously though, I use an ally bank account online for stuff like this. it takes more steps to get at my money so I tend to save it and have it instead of pissing it away. I highly recommend it.

The only stand-alone XT hubs I've seen with a 15mm thru axle are centerlock, so you'd have to buy a new front brake rotor as well. $150 for a new hub laced to your current rim sounds a little high (hub= $60, spokes=$32, build=$58?)

Don't waste $150 on a new front hub when you can buy a decent wheelset for $200. BTW, I found the Fulcrum Red Power XL 29 wheelset on closeout recently for $149.

You also could probably get close to $100 selling your current wheels to help offset the cost.

I think your best bet still is to get those WTB/XT wheels from Jenson. If you wanted to just do your front wheel, I bet you could find a Hope/Flow front only for around $250. Then save the rest until you can afford the matching rear.

I did some rereading through this thread to see what kind of bike you had and all the issues. I just built up my first 29er from scratch with a new diamondback frame that came with a suntour nvx fork which is a cheaper and even crappier fork than what yours came with stock. I just swapped mine out for a tower pro, it only shaved 1lb of weight. Also, you are over 200lbs so certainly your not huge but the possibility of damaging wheels exists. As someone who is new and probably going to be a bit harder on wheels cuz you lack the skill that experienced guys have you really shouldn't worry about weight. Also, you said you want to go tubeless, I challenge you to price out tubeless ready wheelsets for under $250, they really just dont exist. Those wtb whees are an excellent value to get you started. your bike is simply too entry level to even h ave a whiff of getting it down to 25lbs without some more significant expenditures but that doesn't mean it isn't a good bike. by saving some bucks on the wheels, the rest of your budget could easily go towards upgrades that would lighten your bike up. Here are some examples of stuff all carried at jensen so yous shipping would be free. First we have the wheels that we already mentioned

All of these upgrades total $552 and all are available from Jensen. I'm not a shill for them I swear, just a guy who loves riding bikes, and loves building them up. sometimes it saves me money, sometimes it doesn't. With the deals that jensen is having now, this is a great opportunity to save. Also, you can sell off all of those old parts and recoup some of this expense or save them to throw on another bike down the road.

My bike has a lot of the components I listed above on it, I sourced most of mine locally and got them used almost at the same price points so you would be doing great getting all this stuff new. My bike is appx 26.5lbs which is pretty good considering I'm 250lbs. The problem with all these entry level mtbs is you really have to swap out a lot of things at once unless your going to go with older generation used stuff that may be beat up or you find some good new old stock parts. the bottom line is you have an 8 speed bike when all the higher end and lighter stuff is now 10 speed.

Went back to bed after posting and wow lol...ok so some good points and I slept on it and decided to scratch the front wheel idea.
Funny most of those parts you list are ones I have plans to replace at some point, just wanted to knock the more expensive items out first which I got the fork now just wheels then I can move to other stuff....

Curious, is the frame I got good? When I went to buy the guy showed me the upper bikes which have the same frame just higher components, I knew going in mine were at the bottom and would replace them when I could, main thing was having a good frame to build on.
My stumpjumper m2 I had 18 years ago came with grip shift, now I see those arent the thing since every bike I see comes with the trigger style, be honest not a huge fan of them I liked grip shift but my shifters are goofy looking to me with the little window and all

Anyway thanks cpfitness for all those links and I just might do those wheels or just wait a bit and apply the money towards a nicer set like the ones I listed from ghisallowheels.

Thanks for the replies from all to, sorry I can be rather undecided at times...just I dont get alot of money a month so my purchases need to thought out well and stuff

Went back to bed after posting and wow lol...ok so some good points and I slept on it and decided to scratch the front wheel idea.
Funny most of those parts you list are ones I have plans to replace at some point, just wanted to knock the more expensive items out first which I got the fork now just wheels then I can move to other stuff....

Curious, is the frame I got good? When I went to buy the guy showed me the upper bikes which have the same frame just higher components, I knew going in mine were at the bottom and would replace them when I could, main thing was having a good frame to build on.
My stumpjumper m2 I had 18 years ago came with grip shift, now I see those arent the thing since every bike I see comes with the trigger style, be honest not a huge fan of them I liked grip shift but my shifters are goofy looking to me with the little window and all

Anyway thanks cpfitness for all those links and I just might do those wheels or just wait a bit and apply the money towards a nicer set like the ones I listed from ghisallowheels.

Thanks for the replies from all to, sorry I can be rather undecided at times...just I dont get alot of money a month so my purchases need to thought out well and stuff

nothing wrong with your frame whatsoever. Normally it doesn't make sense to upgrade such a large number of the components on a bike because we simply can't purchase one off components at a low enough price point to make it cheaper than buying a new bike but in this case thats not true. If you were to buy a bike with a similar frame loaded up with SLX and XT components from one of the big name brands like Trek or Specialized you are probably going to spend AT LEAST $2000 to do it. I see the MSRP on the wahoo is listed as $629 so spend another $600 upgrading and you have a really really good bike for $1200. Most people would tell you to just ride the crap out of this bike and only replace things as they break. Nothing wrong with that strategy either especially if you sock away the $600 you have to spend now and add to it.

BTW, dont think that those wheels we are suggesting are bad wheels. They are actually quite good. Shimano hubs are sort of like the gold standard. They are certainly not the best and most high end, however, with simple maintenance, they will work and work for a long time. the hubs should easily outlast the rims and could be reused down the road. having heavier hubs isn't the end all be all because that weight isn't on the perimeter of the wheel. that is where losing weight really counts the most. the lighter you can get on the perimeter the easier it is to accelerate. Where did you get the fork from anyhow? is returning it and ordering it with the 9mm quick release dropout an option so you can keep your existing wheels?

Look at what Trek's $2400 29er hard tail option gives you. Tubeless wheelset but they are only 28 spoke and you are up over 200lbs. not to say that they wouldn't be fine but probably not ideal. only has slx level shifters and fd and brakes (though I've heard the latest and greatest SLX are an awesome value on par with xt) IT does have a good quality fork but I've never read a single bad review about the tower pro once riders have the proper spring installed for their weight.

Big name bike companies have lots of employees, lots of advertising they need to pay for and a whole host of other costs. Bike snobs try to act like these companies bikes are better because they need to justify to themselves why they spent so much money. The bottom line is that if you have the time and patience to shop around for some deals and the know how to wrench on a bike, often times you can do better. In this case, you will make out a LOT better by upgrading your existing bike.

Ok that makes me feel alot better! I knew spending more on a higher bike would save some but I just didnt like the other bikes(color choices) and I spotted this lone 2013 hanging there and the colors on it were all me lol, we had a 2012 model of the same in my hands and I was ok with it not the best colors but then saw the 2013 and said ok thats mine....I had gone shopping on labor day weekend so I could have got the 2012 for 20% off think it was $500 and change but the 2013 was $629 plus 10% off so yea paid a bit more for a color im happy with
The fork is a no go got it little over a month ago off ebay, new in box and all for $400 shipped. Its all good I want the larger axle so will just wait till Feb. and get my wheels, had some stuff pop up this month is why I was looking at cheaper alternatives and im dying to get this fork on and yea im not to patient I will just suk it up and wait a month.

Ok that makes me feel alot better! I knew spending more on a higher bike would save some but I just didnt like the other bikes(color choices) and I spotted this lone 2013 hanging there and the colors on it were all me lol, we had a 2012 model of the same in my hands and I was ok with it not the best colors but then saw the 2013 and said ok thats mine....I had gone shopping on labor day weekend so I could have got the 2012 for 20% off think it was $500 and change but the 2013 was $629 plus 10% off so yea paid a bit more for a color im happy with
The fork is a no go got it little over a month ago off ebay, new in box and all for $400 shipped. Its all good I want the larger axle so will just wait till Feb. and get my wheels, had some stuff pop up this month is why I was looking at cheaper alternatives and im dying to get this fork on and yea im not to patient I will just suk it up and wait a month.

Thanks again man really made me feel alot better about my purchase!

no problem, the fork is really going to make a big difference for you once you get it installed.

When I started mtn. biking some 10+ years ago I rolled my new $350 Marin hardtail into the LBS and asked where I should start w/ my upgrades ? I started the conversation by rattling off all the greatest components I read in the magazines that might be potential pieces to the puzzle. The LBS tech. gave me a bit of advice - Make sure your cokpit is setup w/ good grips, bars & seat to give the best comfort / control. Next replace your fork and tires After that its time to ride the bike until components break then upgrade. He said you might come to a realization (sooner than you think) you want a full suspension or HT w/ different geometry. His point was I didn't really know what I wanted and some experince might benefit my purchases. He was spot on, I rode the HT for 6mo. and moved to a XC FS. Another 6mo. passed and I was moving into trail / AM bikes...