In all the talk about expansiopocolypse, there is one thing that most people on any side of the issue can agree: it sucks to lose rivalry games. Things change. New rivalries develop. New hate. But there is something special about being able to share that hate. Share the rivalry between generations. Comparing. Looking at the history. Taunting someone else of a long past game.

[Brief tangent here on Missouri. The Missouri slow dance to the SEC is succeeding in pissing more people off than I could have expected. Everyone in the Big 12 seems to just want them to stop pretending and get out already so they get the replacement. Everyone in the SEC is hating them for jerking this around and not showing the proper unbrideled lust and desire to be in the SEC like Texas A&M did. And the rest of the country just wants them to make the move so we can forget about them once more.

Honestly, I can’t help but think that the slow move by Mizzou is all orchestrated out of desperation in a fruitless hope that the Big 10 will make an eleventh hour offer. That’s where they really want to go. Where they think they belong. The midwest. Rivalry with Illinois and natural rival with Iowa and old Big 8 foe, Nebraska. If they sign on to the SEC, it is going to be a long-term commitment and they may miss their chance when the next cycle of expansiopocolypse strikes the Big 10. It’s not going to happen. The Big 10 doesn’t need Missouri, and that conference would never do any reacting to what others do (or at least would act like it wouldn’t).]

Now, before West Virginia was about to find that “Get out of jail” card, they were at risk. The Big 12 appeared to favor Lousiville over WVU because of geography, market and even academics. But as usual with the Big 12, Texas had a different preference and dictated it.

Asked why the Big 12 would be upgraded, the official said, “West Virginia has better football than Missouri, better basketball than Missouri, a better budget than Missouri and more passion among its fans than Missouri. They’re better, anyway you turn ‘em. The travel’s not good (to Morgantown, W. Va.), but that’s it.”

He added there is support for Louisville, but said a lagging football program hurts its appeal.

The well-placed administrator said Missouri would probably have to remain in the Big 12 next school year because it’s getting so late in the process to find a replacement quickly, and an early Missouri exit could lead to financial liability for that school.

…

A second Big 12 school official told the Statesman he prefers Louisville because of its closer proximity and said travel to West Virginia would make for too big a burden on athletes.

“The only place where there’s an advantage for West Virginia is better football,” the second official said. “Their academics is not as strong. If there’s any thought about what’s best for the student-athlete, we’ll go with Louisville.”

The thing worth noting is that the Big 12 expects Missouri to be stuck in the Big 12 for 2012, simply because of how late things already are and Mizzou may be less willing to cut a huge check to bail early. That does seem likely, and is probably the best for WVU. It is almost November and most of the football schedules for the following season are finished by December — finalized and announced in January.

Given that anything short of complete implosion of the Big East, any poached Big East member — Pitt, Syracuse and probably WVU — are going to be held in the conference for next year. Not even for spite. It’s survival of the conference. They need at least 8 members to be an AQ conference in the BCS. The other potential new members will probably be stuck in their own conferences for another year since they haven’t even gotten formal invites and been able to provide notice to their conferences.

“I have not had any discussions with the Pitt folks. I have kind of let them be, quite honestly, with all the activity,” Luck said. “But my sense is they will be interested in maintaining the football rivalry with us. We bring 25,000 fans to Heinz Field. We fill it up. Pitt is not filling up Heinz Field on their own, so that game from a financial perspective is pretty important to them.”

Considering that WVU didn’t use their allotment at Heinz Field last year and Milan-Puskar hasn’t been filling up this year, Luck has been on a roll. DiPaola wonders if comments like that will hurt the chances to keep the Backyard Brawl. Pitt will likely have only 3 open dates for the non-con in football once in the ACC — and if it became a choice between playing ND every year or WVU — personal affronts along with a wash on the financials could send the Brawl into hiatus on the football side.

I doubt stupid words would (we are talking utterances from a Hoopie), but the money/exposure issues might. Playing ND is a national game. It is guaranteed big coverage. The Backyard Brawl is a regional rivalry. It is intense. It is often entertaining. But it is still regional, and takes on slightly less importance when it will no longer relate to the conference standings for either. It goes back to being like Georgia-GT and Clemson-South Carolina.

So, yeah, the Backyard Brawl could fade more easily than we realize. I hope not, though.

The Backyard Brawl is worth keeping — even over Notre Dame. It is a true rivalry and has real hatred and history.

Yes, I know ND and Pitt have now played 67 times. They are tied with Syracuse as Pitt’s 3d most played opponent, behind WVU and Penn St. And for ND, Pitt is fifth on their list behind USC, Purdue, Michigan State and Navy. And fifth is about where Pitt is on the list of teams ND wants to beat in a given season. Let’s also be realistic. Pitt has historically been dominated by the Domers. To the tune of 20-46-1. I can hate the Irish and want to see them beaten badly, but I can’t declare that it is a rivalry.

The Backyard Brawl is a rivalry. It has doomed seasons. Made seasons. The fans get after it. There’s true hate.

Pitt has been very good about keeping rivalry games when it can. Even when there is little reason to do so, and costs the program money. The City Game with Duquesne is a good example. At this point, the game is high risk, low reward for Pitt. Win and Pitt is supposed to, lose and it is a big blow to an at best, middling A-10 school. Beyond that, Pitt has been willing to treat Duquesne like an equal by letting the contest be a home-and-home series — until the recent move to the Con. Giving up a home game to treat them more than fairly and more respect than would be expected. I expect Pitt will make the right decision to try and continue playing WVU in football and basketball.

The good thing with WVU probably heading to the Big 12, is they have less reason to not keep the Backyard Brawl going. Hard feelings over Pitt going to the ACC would be defused. If there really any were, considering WVU was more active than Pitt in trying to get out of the Big East. I think both sides recognize the importance to the fans and the region, and will make sure it continues.

As Pitt fans, we’ve seen the loss of one great, historic rivalry game. I don’t want to see the loss of another.

Also remember that the week after the announcement regarding Pitt/ACC, Luck went on the radio and publicly called the Pitt administrators (i.e., Pederson and Nordenberg) liars. I think most folks recognized it for what it was – sour grapes from a guy who had been angling to get out of the Big East only to be upstaged. Still, those are not the kind of statements an AD should be making publicly, and probably did not help as WVU was trying to wedge itself into the SEC and ACC discussions. For as bright as Luck seems to be, he also seems to have a huge ego and be a bit of a loose cannon, things the SEC in particular frowns upon.

With all of that, I wouldn’t be shocked if this game goes away for a few years, but I’d be surprised if it didn’t come back.

I can live without my toothless cousins from the South if the Domers replaced them. ND will always be a national game and the road trip to South Bend is far better than Morganhole since Irish fans are civilized.

Where Luck is accurate is that casual Pitt fans come out of the woodwork to attend the Brawl because it is one of the few games that draws casual interest. So whether they are Pitt or WVU fans, it is true that 20,000 more fans come out for the Brawl than Pitt vs UConn for example

Luck’s comments on that issue are surprisingly arrogant and stupid. I think the fact of the matter is that WVU needs that game more than Pitt does. The reason? They recruit heavily in the Pittsburgh area, whereas we don’t recruit West Virginia, because that state doesn’t produce very many players at all. Dropping that game might help us hang on to more local players who are thinking about going to WVU.

As Coach Dixon says with basketball, rivalries even in football have as much to do with success as anything. I’d love to play ND each year but frankly even that’s losing its luster as both teams are mediocre (although the trip to South Bend is cool). Ideally the football program improves to the point where a natural rivalry develops in the ACC. Maybe Va,Tech? Who knows, but while ideally it’d be great to see WVU, PSU and ND all on our schedule as much as possible, I’d trade those games for a football program consistently challenging for a conference championship. (Legitimately challenging for it, not in a “slide through the back door” manner.)

Never thought I would say this, but time to move on. We are going to the ACC. In for a penny, in for a pound. Time to make new rivalries. Got to start somewhere for the upcoming generations. I think the Pitt Syracuse, Pitt BC, Pitt VA Tech, and Pitt Maryland all have potential. Penn State has been trying to move on ever since they left for the Big 10. Their problem is, they don’t belong there and just can’t make it work. Pitt can because the ACC is a good fit. Basketball will have to take the lead initially, but it can work. Time to leave the hoopies and catholics behind.

You are right abought Mizzou leave or dont leave.
shit or get off the pot. what a pain they are.

And the difference between the psu and the WVU move is that the WVUfans have killed it any way with there crazy gross behaveior iwouldent go to there home games any more who wants to be hit with rocks there is no rivary when you cant go to there games.

You do realize that all of you above who said it’s time on once we move to the ACC and forget WVU, were probably the same ones who complained about PSU’s arrogance when they did the same to Pitt when they joined the B10

Penn State joining the conference was not what had folks up in arms. It was the fact that they would not schedule Pitt as a non conference game. And they were down right pissy about it, as those of us who were around at that time well remember. They are the ones who opened up this can of worms. Penn State thought they hung the moon when they went to the Big 10. They even made a big deal out of how the Michigan State game was going to take the place of the Pitt rivalry. How did that work out for them? They are an average team 2 hours from New York City who play half their games in Wisconsin, Indiana and Illinois for crying out loud. They made a mistake but won’t admit it. Bobby Knight said at the time Penn State was not a fit for the Big 10 because, among other things, it was a “camping trip”.

I live less than an hour from Morgantown and have not attended a game there since Pitt won that tie game under Gottfried. And I travel everywhere to see Pitt play (ie Iowa, Utah , Nebraska, ND, Texas AM, etc). I won’t travel to Morgantown for fear of damage to my car or worse yet a loved one or me. Those people are animals ! End the backyard brawl for tose reasons.

DaveD read spindlers spirit and you see what i am talking abought.
That stuff did not happen at penn state not that bad .
fights yes but broken car windows pregnant women thrown to the ground a mans eye put out bye thrown quaters please you would go to the game and take a child or your mother with them nut cases they arent fans they are monsters hiting a lady that is with child they have ruined the rivary.

Actually, I call em’ like I see them wbb, and not afraid to say I was wrong. I knew the whole time it would be a tough fit, conference schedule needs filled out, then you need a couple home games for the bank account.

Disappointed, but, as in business, I understood that would be the end of Pitt-PSU.

The only thing that ever raised my ire’, was when someone up there offered a 2 home for one away in PSU’s favor.

We may not have the football program they do, but, we are also not anyone’s lapdog, and whoever told them to go pound salt, glad they did.

I was more upset and jealous that they got into a good conference, than the fact that the rivalry was pretty much dead, in all honesty.

Now, that we landed in a top conference, ya, I’m a bit gleeful, but I would never ask WVU for a 2 for 1.

Agreed Frank, any rivalry anywhere, can have moments of nastiness, but, for the most part, I have gone to away games at Notre Dame and Penn State many times, and have had some jovial back and forths, and many a beers in the parking lots with both of those folks.

West Virginia is a different animal, very similar to a Steelers-Browns game up at Cleveland, where it can get downright nasty after a game. Or before or during for that matter.

People going around after the game, especially if they have lost, just looking for trouble.

Hey, can happen anywhere, but, they are a step above, or below, depending how you phrase it!!

This is a guess; but I’m betting the people that pay the majority of the money to the Pitt Athletic Department would much rather go to an away game at South Bend then Morgantown…so if Pitt has to choose between WVU and ND…ND will prevail.

WV has always had the issues….it’s no worse now than it was 20 years ago. I won’t go there for a game and would miss traveling to South Bend. But I sure would miss causing them problems…..which will not happen if the rivalry goes away. I’m with Chas…I don’t want to lose that tradition. We would all miss it over time. Keep the Brawl…it’s too much fun!

The only reason to keep ND is they sell the stadium out. They could have kept the Big East from imploding a long time ago by joining for football. They should have been booted out of the basketball conference long ago.

I would much rather see WVU every other year and they sell tickets as well.

Agree with several other fellow Panthers here.
I can live without playing a school that beats up pregnant women and throws quarters from the alumni section with intent to injure Pitt coaches.

Let them play others that condone and revel in that kind of garbage. We don’t need them, they need Pitt & Pittsburgh as a news outlet. Last time I checked that whole stinkin state didn’t have a major news outlet and will never have.

We have Syracuse and BC to hate if that’s your thing. And I know several on here already hate Notre Dame, so there you go.

FWIW, I sometimes listen to College Sports station on XM satellite, which this time of year can be called SEC Football station. Anyway, understandably the BE conference FB is scoffed at. But the one positive thing I have heard a couple of times was when referencing the good football rivalries, the ‘Backyard Brawl’ was cited a couple of times.

BTW, while the BE FB is lowly regarded, BE basketball has been analogized as the “SEC of college football”, which I assure you is a grand compliment on that station. In fact, they compared Pitt and Syracuse leaving BE basketball to Florida and Alabama leaving SEC football.

PSU played what, 7 conference games prior to Nebraska joining the B1G. That left 5 OCC games. Pitt could/should have been one of those. PSU chose not to renew the series.

The CFB landscape (superconferences) will now have 8 or 9 conference games which only leaves 3-4 OCC games. It will not be as easy to schedule the traditional rivalry games if the teams are in different conferences.

One possible solution is that Pitt could schedule games with WVU every other year, and ND in the years WVU is not on the schedule. This way you preserve the series with each team while allowing games against teams in lower-tier conferences. Other than this, I don’t see how they can keep both going without 4-6 year gaps.

I personally coulndn’t care less if we ever play those hoopers ever again. And i wouldn’t mind seeing their Big 12 exploits fall thru and see them land in Conference USA or the Colonial. It’s a bigger deal to their fans than it is to us….similar to the way Penn St fans don’t care about us as much as we care about them.

To me…our program benefits more with this priority order of rivals 1)Penn State 2)ND 3)Hoopie Hick Drunks…

It pisses them off when we turn our noses up at them…so lets do that one more time and never play them again….hopefully their rivalries in the future are with Central Florida and Marshall.

I think between WVU/PSU/ND you gotta try to play 2 of the three each year. It makes for a tough non conference, but your schedule is going to change a good bit in the ACC. Pitt can’t expect to run the table, so a tough schedule with a lot of exposure should help recruiting.

I love the rivalry and I do HATE the Hoopies, BUT I’m too old to put up with all the crap from their fans. WVU deserves their reputation and deserves to be looked down upon. Their behavior and academics are despicable.

The one game that always counted as THE BIG ONE was Pitt/PSU. Make no mistake about it the games with WVU and NDU were always considered highly important, however, they were not even close to the Irish and Hoopies.
The entire State of Pennsylvania would stop to pay attention to every play.

No excuses, like Auburn/Alabama….Mich/MSU….
Ore/Ore St…Army/Navy and yes, “The Game” Hahvahd/Yale…Pitt/Penn State was and should continue to be the game that must be on the schedule EVERY YEAR!!!

wbb…i really dont hate WVU…i dont care about them that much. i think they act like idiots…but they aren’t a team im just dying to see pitt beat. for me…penn state is that team. to see us beat them (ideally with joe fa-fa still ‘coaching’) would really produce some bragging rights around here…and aren’t bragging rights around the water cooler what rivalries are really all about. there’s a crazy amount of penn st grads in pittsburgh (where i’m writing from) and they act like pitt isnt in the same class. i dont run into many WVU fans (probably because i dont hang out around too many trailer parks…and you need to be able to read in the line of work that im in).

i like to joke about WVU because its easy…but im passionate about pitt beating penn state. i bought season tix this year when they announced that we’d be playing those jag-offs in a few years just so I can ensure that ill have a seat when it does happen.

PSU basically said ‘The hell with Pitt’ when they did not renew the series. Why hang on to something that is no longer there?

Am I unhappy that this once great rivalry has ended? You bet. But why continue to persue something that no longer has importance to PSU? This is just feeding their arrogance.

WVU is Pitt’s rival now, for better or worse. Additionally, the Pitt-WVU rivalry extends to b-ball. The one with PSU did not.

There have been just as many memorable football games between us and WVU as we had against PSU in the 70s and early 80s. Which by the way was pretty much the only time the Pitt-PSU rivlary was nationally relevant.

when a PSU or WVU is posted on the Heinz scoreboard and either are losing, there is a big cheer from the Pitt fans.

When a Pitt score is posted at Puskar stadium, the Eer fans cheer if Pitt is losing.

However, a Pitt score posted on the Beaver Stadium scoreboard goes pretty much unnoticed. This is because the Nits’ fanbase is composed of followers up and down the eastern seaboard and only PSU fans from Western PA show any passion towards Pitt.

Like it or not, both Pitt and WVU are much more regionally based and their rivalry remains meaningful.

I think you keep pursuing the PSU rivalry because playing them…and playing ND…makes your program stronger. I hate to say it, but they are monster programs…bigger than ours right now. whether WVU is or not is debatable…but playing monster programs and winning is big what propels us to the next level. and screw basketball…in the ACC we are not going to need any help on that front.

but if we don’t end up playing any of them, i won’t be that concerned either. my view on this changed as soon as we went to the ACC. i luv beating some of these teams, but what pitt needs right now is legitimacy…not rivalry.

and even if we dont end up playing PSU, ND, or WVU…we’ll work up new rivals. i feel like going to the ACC is going to bring match-ups with some great teams that will more than give us our fill. by going to the ACC we’ve made a move that has us moving in the right direction. we need to focus on competing in that conference….when we do that we’ll have arrived as a legit contender. and when that happens, we’ll have new, better teams lined up to be our rivals. lets make it so our biggest game of the year is an ACC championshiop game

All reports are that WVU is in the Big 12 once Mizzou leaves for SEC. I read that some of the hold up is that if Mizzou leaves then Kansas City will lose the Big 12 basketball tournament which is a pretty big deal to the city.

I personally would get rid of WVU. I go to many road games, but I refuse to go to Morgantown due to all the issues at the game. I don’t think Pitt should play any team in which Pitt fans will fear for their safety. I’d take just about any team over WVU. Heck even a team like Iowa is better. I know we have no history. But my trip to Iowa this year was awesome. The fans were friendly and helpful and it was a great time, minus the final score of the game of course.

I agree completely with pghFred. WVU is Pitt’s rival now. Many a season have been ruined in the Brawl since Penn St. dropped Pitt from the schedule. Let’s not let this rivalry rot chasing PSU and ND.

Its too bad that Joe Pa was willing to let the Pitt-PSU rivalry wither away, but all the venom is gone. They don’t care about us and I think the only reason Pitt fans care about them is because it reminds them of the glory days of Pitt football

Please correct me if I’m wrong. I attended Pitt from out of state and was a freshman during Pitt’s first Heinz season, so my view on this is from a way more recent vantage point. I have zero personal feelings about PSU, only the echos of hate left behind by the people who attended before me. I remember my freshmen year there still being some P-E-N-N-S-T Sucks chants. Those eventually disappeared by the time I graduated.

But goddamn do I like beating WVU. Getting beat at Heinz with thousands of hoopies filling the seats has really ruined my weekend a few times. Also, the best victory I have experienced as a Pitt fan is the 2007 Brawl. I guess as a non-PA resident, who started attending Pitt at the turn of the century, WVU has a hell of a lot more meaning to me than PSU.

Man Chris, that was a good post. I’m the opposite. Growing up in eastern PA all it was either Penn State or Notre Dame. There was no other option. But Penn State was the one you hated. Maybe it was the arrogance, the fact that you grew up with it. Do you know how many goddamn “Why is the sky blue? (Because God must be a Penn State fan)” bumper stickers I’ve seen? How many times I’ve seen those ridiculous blue and white paw prints stuck onto mini-van doors? How many times I heard “You Pitt fans are so funny, I can’t believe you think we are rivals.”? Nobody from my town ever made it to Notre Dame, but a whole bunch of my friends loved telling me how awesome Penn State was, over and over and over again…

I graduated from Pitt the year after we beat PSU 12-0 at Three Rivers – the last game of the series. And man, let me tell you that was a WIN. 55,000 people never sounded so loud. I also traveled to Happy Vally the year before when we came within a hair’s breadth of beating them at their place, even though we like 17 point dogs. And let me tell you that stadium was off-the-hook loud. Have you ever felt bleachers vibrating beneath your feet, BEFORE the game? I have.

Maybe you’re right though…maybe it’s been to long and all the venom is gone. Maybe. But I don’t think so. I think it runs too deep. I think it runs too local. I respect that you’re from out of state and you’ve never seen us play PSU, but if you ask me, that venom is there, and it always will be.

I’ve gone down to Morgantown to watch Pitt play WVU in football (and basketball) and never experienced what some of you are describing. Sure, some fans may say things like, “Eat Sh!T Pitt”, but for the most part they just watched the game. Maybe I lucked out and sat in a more reserved section, but I jumped up and cheered when Baldwin caught a late touchdown to tie up the game in 2009 and nobody said a thing to me. No objects were hurled at my head. Nothing. My two cents: We should continue the Brawl.

The Pitt/Penn State game was one of the best rivalry games in the country…but over 10 years ago, PSU walked away and has acted like their mediocrity doesn’t stink ever since…any mention of reviving the game has been met with derision on their part (although they have acquiessed to bless us with two meetings beginning five years from now) and they have pretty much told Pitt to get lost anytime the subject of the game comes up…so I say the hell with them…

I was one who once thought that we needed to play the game every year; a great tradition for both schools…something that both schools needed…

But now, I say the Brawl is better…”The Backyard Brawl is a rivalry. It has doomed seasons. Made seasons. The fans get after it. There’s true hate.”…couldn’t agree more!

[…] but before the Big 12 needed to get WVU, the WVU AD Oliver Luck spoke a little too quickly about how much Pitt needs the Backyard Brawl. Reality actually suggests otherwise. Pitt has an easier time finding teams willing to do […]