G'day folks, need some help here. I'm looking for an HD camera to record videos of my 10-yr-old playing tennis. He is an upcoming jr (we are in Melbourne, VIC, Australia).

I'm looking at 720p (but can live with 480p) 16:9, at 120fps (but can live with 60fps). Would want to record for 3+ hours and edit with an iMac. Slo-mo's are an important requirement for serve/stroke analysis. I'm looking for something that won't break the bank.

Anybody used the GoPro HD Hero2 for tennis? [see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZsykO1lXkU]. If yes, what are the settings used (medium angle, 720p 60fps, maybe)? Can you provide some link for uploaded videos? {Fyi, this is under $300 on Amazon}

Any other comparable options that ought to be considered? Your suggestions and guidance would be most appreciated.

I have one of those Koday waterproof pocket cams that can take any size micro SD with an adapter. It can shoot fast action and I just bought one of those bendy tentacle looking tripod and hook that one the fence if no one can shoot for me. Works great and it didn't cost what a GoPro does. If I wanted to get crazy I'd take my Canon DSLR out and shoot that way, but I'm almost positive if someone stole that I'd be more ticked than if they stole the Kodak. Lol

A perfectly adequate camera with high speed video capability and MANUAL exposure control to minimize motion blur for stroke analysis is the Casio FH100. Unfortunately, since 2010 Casio no longer manufactures this camera. Some new left-over stock from Japan appear on E*bay, $380. Used FH100 cameras are also available. [In HD the FH100 records to only a maximum 4 Gb video file size even with a large SD card installed so that the camera must be restarted to record long match times.]

To my knowledge all other currently available affordable high speed video cameras are AUTO exposure control. Too much motion blur will result.

If I could find HD and high speed video together in an affordable camera I'd buy in a second, good luck. If you wish to do high speed video for stroke analysis research also Jello Effect distortions for any camera that you are considering.

You can get cameras that do 60p - 60 frames per second progressive - that will AUTO select very fast shutter speeds in bright direct sunlight. 60p with small motion blur can be very useful even for some slower stroke analysis. Forget the serve.

I did read that weblink earlier. And yes, my major grouse is that the Casio FH100 is discontinued and it might be a little dodgy buying one on Fleabay. I'll hunt some more... Has any replacement been launched yet for the FH100 by Casio?

I would want to view it on a 16:9 widescreen HDTV and in slo-mo; mainly for groundstrokes and serves. 720p/120fps would be desirable, but I can live with 720p/60fps. A half-decent poor man's compromise to the FH100 seems to be the GoPro HD Hero2. The 720p/60fps slowed down to about 40% on the GoPro HD Hero2 seems ok; but I'd like to hear from somebody on this forum who has actually used this for tennis. As you rightly pointed out, I can't afford any 1080p camera which films in high-speed.

The best stop action that I have found for Vimeo or Youtube is to click the play-pause button as fast as possible.

There are also some Jello Effect Tests in my Vimeo videos.

The Casio also has 30-240 or 30-120 fps modes. The video records at 30 fps and then when the the trigger is hit again it switches to 240 fps. Standard and high speed video in the same video back & forth 30 to 240 to 30 to 240 fps........., etc..

My only interest so far has been high speed video for stroke analysis. If I wanted to video an entire match I'd use my Aiptek HD Action at 720 60p. It produces sharp pictures in sunlight - fast shutter low motion blur - but there is some minor Jello Effect. [Jello Effect increases with the number of pixels read out so that HD is likely to have more JE distortion in comparison to the reduced resolution cameras designed for high speed video performance.]

I have an older Aiptek. Aiptek ActionHD(2008 ), 5 Megapixel. It does 1080 30 fps & 720 at 60fps progressive. I especially like it because in bright sunlight I believe its AUTO control chooses a faster shutter speed so that motion blur is small. I did a Jello Effect test and posted it on Vimeo. It shows the sharpness and Jello Effect of the camera. The rotating tube simulates the arm rotation seen in the serve - axial arm rotation produced by internal shoulder rotation. https://vimeo.com/30281692

The one I have does a good job showing strokes - only not the highest speed stuff. The stop-action single frame on the camera is not good so you should plan to view on a computer for stop action. My camera came with a remote which is a very good thing to have. But the remote is not mentioned on the box or in the user's manual so maybe not all the cameras came with a remote.

The Aiptek ActionHD is a useful camera but the Casio FH100 has everything needed for tennis stroke analysis.

These videos display considerably more sharply directly on my computer and not through Vimeo. Compression issue? These were taken in bright sunlight. Notice that the edges of the racket and other rapidly moving edges do not have excessive motion blur.

Jello Effect Distortion. On the backhand video, stop frame right after the ball impact. You will notice that the racket face appears to be bent. I believe that is false image bending due to Jello Effect distortion of the AIPTEK under these specific shooting conditions.

How is this camera any better than a smartphone cameras or any other 60 fps progressive camcorder or camera? Smartphone cameras also seem to select a very fast shutter speed in bright sunlight. Test motion blur. Is the smartphone 30 fps or 60 fps? Smartphones have a fixed wide angle lens and not a 3X Zoom like this Aiptek and therefore require closer positioning of the camera for acceptable image size. There is more distortion using wide-angle fixed lens. How much Jello Effect is there on a given model of smartphone? Other 60p camcorders/cameras have an unknown amount of Jello Effect. Most importantly it is unknown how the AUTO exposure control will select shutter speed. Test any video camera or smartphone in bright sunlight to observe motion blur.

I hope that there are some properly framed Smartphone, GoPro Hero 2, and other 60p videos for comparisons of tennis stroke videos.

Outdoor sunlight lighting is about 100X as strong as indoor lighting so AUTO will have to select a much slower shutter speed with much increased motion blur.

Unfortunately, this Aiptek model is an older one and I don't know how other Aiptek models perform. I have found it impossible to find information on how the AUTO exposure control works in any camera models from any manufacturer. Suggest testing the cameras for motion blur in bright sunlight.

Thanks for taking all the effort, Chas. How does one do slo-mo? Is this all done post-processing?
(Sorry for all the q's - total newbie here...)

Click to expand...

I am interested in tennis stroke analysis and shoot high speed videos at 240 fps always using faster shutter speeds to reduce motion blur. I use mainly stop-action single-frame analysis of the videos to identify what is missing, done wrong, poorly timed, etc., in my strokes. I easily find many issues to work on. Since I take videos at 240 fps and they are played back at 30 fps, time is already stretched by 8 times just from the 240 fps/30 fps ratio. In addition, the Casio FH100 viewing screen is large, about 3" across, and I do a lot of viewing and editing on the camera itself. The FH100 will also playback the 240 fps forward or backward at variable slow speeds. My need for showing videos to others is very low so I have not done much video editing. If I had 60 fps to view in slo motion I would view it either on 1) Quicktime - QT can play back at 1/2 speed or 2) Kinovea Version 8.15, variable playback speed from 3-198% of original playback speed. Both QT and Kinovea are free. But again, so far, I do almost all single frame analysis with just a little slo motion playback.

Editing to Display Videos at 30 fps. Take a video at 30 or 60 fps and stretch it to make a new video that displays for a much longer time. To display a video slowly there are video editing programs that will basically repeat a frame a few times or more for display at 30 fps- so that the faster things can be observed when displayed at 30 fps. There are also more sophisticated video editors that will compute intermediate false frames between the real frames and make a new video that plays slower. I consider those techniques to be for display purposes and not for analysis.

There is a golf video in Japanese (?). At 2:12 on the side view you can see the motion blur on the club head . You might also try searching Youtube with golf Casio FC200S. Always look for a side view to examine motion blur as the club head moves across the frame rather than away from the camera as in the rear golf view.

I bought a Canon Powershot SX 260 earlier this year as a compact camera mainly because it sports a 20x optical zoom but it also shoots video at both 120 and 240 fps, which I have used to record myself practicing tennis. The price has actually dropped about $100 since I bought mine too.

I bought a Canon Powershot SX 260 earlier this year as a compact camera mainly because it sports a 20x optical zoom but it also shoots video at both 120 and 240 fps, which I have used to record myself practicing tennis. The price has actually dropped about $100 since I bought mine too.

I bought a canon A1300 over black friday for $60 with the pure intention of filming tennis. The video quality isn't exactly what I thought it would be. My iphone 4s takes better videos than this camera. I guess you really do get what you pay for.

So I'm looking around for something of a higher quality. I'm looking for one that has full HD capability, but I will most likely record at 720p to conserve storage. From what I've seen, cameras that can go 1080p tend to record better videos at 720p than those cameras that max out at 720p

The old, cheap Aiptek camera, discussed in replies #14 & 15 above, is 60 fps at 720 and does not have high speed video. But in bright sunlight the Auto exposure control selects a faster shutter speed and the motion blur allows considerable stroke analysis. Do you want to tape matches or tennis strokes, both?

I am very uncertain about camera specs from online sources unless I own the camera or see forum replies from reliable owners. You can download the full user's manuals from Casio and look for shutter speed in high speed video mode. Often this information is buried in the 'notes' as for the ZR cameras. You can also search youtube FC100 FC150 golf or tennis. For golf, find side views (not the behind view where the club head is going away) in bright sunlight only (with sharp shadows). If a camera's AUTO uses a faster shutter speed in bright sunlight it might do a nice job reducing motion blur. Look at the motion blur of the golf club head. Realize that the cameras in these videos are not often set to minimize motion blur.

I am uncertain whether some Casio FC cameras have an AUTO exposure control with shutter priority in high speed video mode. I don't trust some of the info on the golf site as people who don't use the cameras for HSV, myself included, sometimes see the still mode spec and assume it applies to the high speed video mode.

Any video camera and especially any high speed video camera will provide new information on your strokes that can't possibly be seen or felt. If the cost is reasonable give high speed video a try.

That quality HS video would be very useful for tennis strokes. You can see the body parts well. You would not see the racket face or ball position well or the fastest body motions in the serve. In bright direct sunlight the FC150 would probably? choose a shutter speed that is faster. But exactly how AUTO exposure controls would work is never made clear.

To estimate the shutter speed in the video-

If you look at second 20 just after the ball has left the racket you can see the motion blur on the racket head and ball. (I can do stop action while viewing Youtube on my laptop by pressing the mouse pad key as fast as possible on the YT 'play-pause' button.) The motion blur on the ball seems to be roughly 12".

I bought a canon A1300 over black friday for $60 with the pure intention of filming tennis. The video quality isn't exactly what I thought it would be. My iphone 4s takes better videos than this camera. I guess you really do get what you pay for.

So I'm looking around for something of a higher quality. I'm looking for one that has full HD capability, but I will most likely record at 720p to conserve storage. From what I've seen, cameras that can go 1080p tend to record better videos at 720p than those cameras that max out at 720p

I bought an FH100 off fleabay last fall from Japan and the seller was highly regarded selling these cameras. I had no problems and it came new in the box. The seller even threw in a bag of cheeto chips from Japan. I love my FH100. Arrived in about 7 days because he sent it using a fast service.

A shame it maxed out at 1/1000 shutter speed, but it seems plenty fast! If I use f3.6, the max shutter speed is only 1/800. Tested it indoors, I had to go down to f 3.6 with shutter speed of 1/400 to get a useable video even with ISO 3200. How good is the FH100 indoors?

The FC150 does a great job showing your serve. You can see the racket orientation very well throughout the serve.

For indoor tennis courts the typical lighting level are only roughly 1% of direct sunlight. The shutter has to be slow to collect enough light. The FH100 has a reputation for doing well in low light. As I recall my FH100 might need shutter speeds of about 1/400 to 1/1000 sec with ISO 3200 and f3.2. I usually will go for a faster shutter speed to get minimum motion blur as long as I can see the arms and racket, that is, I accept dark and less attractive videos.

At exposure times of 1/1,000 sec the motion blur should only be considerable on close-ups of very rapidly moving objects, for fast racket head speeds, etc.. Even then, you might still see what you are after, such as where on the racket face the ball was contacted.

If the FC150 can record at 60p fps and also set 1/1000 sec shutter speed in that mode you can record a match and still do pretty good stop action with 60p fps. Then at any time in your match you can evaluate your strokes, identify the causes of errors, lack of pace on some strokes, etc..

If you really want to get into it and compare your serves to pro serves side-by-side, look into free Kinovea.

So for $90 you got a high speed video camera that is capable of providing analysis of your serve!

Unfortunately it doesn't do 60fps, just 30 fps in HD (720p) or STD (640x480). Plus the lens doesn't go wide enough to get a good view of the entire court from the back fence. But I'm pretty happy with it!

Tried filming a match indoors just now, auto exposure works OK, you just get a low shutter speed and resultant blurs on slow motion. Manual high speed was just barely enough with f3.6 and 1/800 shutter speed. Dark but useable video.

Greg G, you should also be able to easily get your serve velocity on your serve videos with the camera side view (perpendicular to the serve's trajectory). Most accurate if you can record a scale placed in the direction of the serve before or after the serve without moving the camera. In a pinch, use your tennis racket for a scale .

It would be more accurate to measure over a longer distance, say, several frames at 240fps. With 1/1000 sec exposure time, the ball image will have motion blur. Just estimate location of the ball by the center of the blur or best guess front edge of the ball.

Not nearly as convenient as a radar gun but it could be very accurate if done properly.

(I was going to try it with my android smartphone, Samsung Galaxy SII, but I've read that some smartphones, including iPhones, might have variable frame rates under some circumstances.)

Hey! I just pressed the HS continuous shutter button, and in this mode it allows manual exposure, up to 1/40000 shutter speed, 40 fps, maximum of 30 frames! With a 10 second delay timer, I can still manage to record my serve!

Addendum: the shutter speed in HS continuous shutter mode seems to carry over to video (!). The camera is allowing me to adjust the shutter speed all the way, and the video I take has the same exposure as the 1/40000 shutter speed still picture (at least by eyeballing the brightness of the picture and video). Will have to confirm this next time out. Crossing my fingers...

The motion blur on the ball and racket look very small. You can farther evaluate motion blur by taking close ups of the racket and ball.

Have you found anything in the user's manual (Casio 200 pages) that describes what you have found regarding the HS button and getting faster shutter speeds?

I like the behind view for showing the serve. You should see all the details and some important angles. Direct sunlight also shows the shadows, for example, shadows on the elbow bones that are helpful in analyzing the upper arm rotation on the serve. https://vimeo.com/21512296

I have just recently discovered that Youtube now will single frame using the forward and backward arrows. Before it didn't.

The FC-150 manual is the typical cryptic Casio manual- it does differentiate standard/HD movie mode and HS movie mode by saying that only auto exposure is avilable for standard mode video, while auto/shutter priority/manual exposure are available in HS movie mode. It also mentions that the range of the shutter speed depends on the current high speed recording speed (fps). The specifications do mention a 1/40000 shutter speed available in high speed CS mode/shutter speed priority AE, or manual mode.

Anyway, I believe it does work because when I try to force manual mode for standard video, I can set it up to high shutter speed but when you press record, automatic exposure settings override it. This is not the case when doing high speed video, it seems to accept the manual settings with nothing overriding the settings- the videos have an exposure equal to the high speed CS photos.

Again, the video looks great with small motion blur. The shot from behind will produce less motion blur because the fastest part of the swing near impact is moving away from the camera.

There is a risk of hitting the camera or, more likely, the tripod. I would never put my camera behind me except when practicing the serve. I put it to the side for forehand or outside the fence, protected from ball impact.

Again, the video looks great with small motion blur. The shot from behind will produce less motion blur because the fastest part of the swing near impact is moving away from the camera.

There is a risk of hitting the camera or, more likely, the tripod. I would never put my camera behind me except when practicing the serve. I put it to the side for forehand or outside the fence, protected from ball impact.

Doesn't the sun ever shine there?

Click to expand...

Well this was a practice session, I would probably not put the camera there during an actual match! I am trying to figure out how to add some protection for the camera...

Oh we get a lot of sunshine here in Manila. It's probably Murphy's Law at work..yup, clear skies out now, when I'm not scheduled to play... :???:

Wrap a tripod in some soft sponge for shock protection and bungee cord it to the fence outside?

Use a tripod with a geared elevator and bungie cord it to the fence with the sponge between the fence and tripod. Use the geared tripod elevator to raise the camera to look through a hole in the fence. Make something to block the fence hole so that a ball can't get through - a piece of plywood with a hole in it that the ball can't get through.

If a ball hits the fence and there is no sponge/shock absorber the shock might cause damage.

Someone mentioned that possible theft might be an issue with a camera outside the fence.........