You know, those people who get theys panties in a knot over "Happy Holidays".... are now sporting signs on they houses and churches that say, 'Happy Harvest" or "Harvest Festival Oct. 31 for the entire fambly"?

I say Keep All Hallows (and fairytale princesses, and astronauts, and vampires, and grim reapers and zombies....) in Halloween.

Elspeth

10-20-2012, 05:11 PM

Are you serious?

Do they still think Halloween is a demonic holiday?

txradioguy

10-20-2012, 05:16 PM

You know, those people who get theys panties in a knot over "Happy Holidays".... are now sporting signs on they houses and churches that say, 'Happy Harvest" or "Harvest Festival Oct. 31 for the entire fambly"?

I say Keep All Hallows (and fairytale princesses, and astronauts, and vampires, and grim reapers and zombies....) in Halloween.

Nope and don't really care that you've noticed either.

That you try to make something out of this, in an effort to try and make Christians tired of Christmas getting taken out of everything by religious bigots like you out to be hypocrites, is not surprising.

Zero bongs on the bouncy ball scale.

Novaheart

10-20-2012, 06:19 PM

Nope and don't really care that you've noticed either.

That you try to make something out of this, in an effort to try and make Christians tired of Christmas getting taken out of everything by religious bigots like you out to be hypocrites, is not surprising.

Zero bongs on the bouncy ball scale.

The part that makes them out for the fools they are, is that Christmas is alive and well and barely scratched by its encounter with our secular and atheistic (by some Judeo/Christian/Islamic standards) society. Walmart already has its Christmas stuff on display, every bit of it made in atheistic China. Baby Jesus is stamped "Made in China". http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/baby-jesus-statue.html

And this has absolutely nothing to do with the war on Christmas and everything to do with letting your inner intolerant bigot loose on the general population.

You know damn well what you posted has nothing to do with the real issues of the whole Christmas kerfuffle.

Bigot.

JB

10-20-2012, 07:58 PM

Worst. Troll Thread. Ever.

Hawkgirl

10-21-2012, 12:48 AM

Someone call the Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance!

Odysseus

10-22-2012, 11:31 AM

So, you are saying that celebrating a harvest, rather than Halloween, offends your sensibilities? I wasn't aware that you'd converted to Wicca (at least, I hope that it's Wicca; if you've become a Druid, the ceremonial sacrifices tend to run afoul of the law).

Arroyo_Doble

10-22-2012, 11:48 AM

Halloween turned into Fall Festival a long time ago in communities with a heavy Evangelical influence.

I know of one Episcopal Church will be talking about the origins of Halloween next week though, for the kids.

djones520

10-22-2012, 12:08 PM

Nothing I've noticed at all. Just saw one story on Drudge about a school that removed all mention of halloween, but that was it.

Novaheart

10-22-2012, 02:56 PM

Nothing I've noticed at all. Just saw one story on Drudge about a school that removed all mention of halloween, but that was it.

I was actually referring to things I had actually seen around here. The Fifth Avenue Baptist Church is one of the funnier ones because they have up the "Harvest Festival" sign, in Halloween colors, and they also sell pumpkins. Of course, they also sell Christmas trees...

djones520

10-22-2012, 03:07 PM

I was actually referring to things I had actually seen around here. The Fifth Avenue Baptist Church is one of the funnier ones because they have up the "Harvest Festival" sign, in Halloween colors, and they also sell pumpkins. Of course, they also sell Christmas trees...

Do you know for sure it's not a concerted effort to stamp out Halloween?

NJCardFan

10-22-2012, 04:31 PM

Nothing I've noticed at all. Just saw one story on Drudge about a school that removed all mention of halloween, but that was it.

The closest I saw of this was some school district somewhere(can't remember off hand) who banned Halloween costumes at schools because it might offend the kids who's parents can't afford to buy costumes.

Novaheart

10-22-2012, 04:37 PM

Halloween colors are fall colors.

Black and orange?

djones520

10-22-2012, 04:56 PM

Black and orange?

You live in Florida right? So it's not as evident down there. Spend october up north though and you'd understand.

Apache

10-22-2012, 07:38 PM

Black and orange?

Drop it Princess... You know nothing of which you speak....

Up here, right NOW, we are AWASH in fall AND harvest festivals... and on the 31st there will be plenty of lil' gobblins and ghosts going door to door.

noonwitch

10-23-2012, 12:34 PM

The closest I saw of this was some school district somewhere(can't remember off hand) who banned Halloween costumes at schools because it might offend the kids who's parents can't afford to buy costumes.

Pat Robertson once called for the banning of Halloween-it was a long time ago, before the 1988 primaries (because it was brought up during his campaign). Also, there are fringe people who continue to call Halloween Satan's holiday and such-Jack Chick, of the Chick tracts is one. When I lived in Detroit, the church around the corner put one of those in my mailbox, it was amusing.

I grew up in a pretty Christian community-I had friends who weren't allowed to dance, who weren't allowed to listen to rock or pop music, and who weren't allowed to play on Sundays, but all of them went trick or treating on Halloween.

The alleged war on Christmas is a fabrication by FOX News, based on reports of the usual cranky atheists who object every year.

Elspeth

10-23-2012, 12:44 PM

So, you are saying that celebrating a harvest, rather than Halloween, offends your sensibilities? I wasn't aware that you'd converted to Wicca (at least, I hope that it's Wicca; if you've become a Druid, the ceremonial sacrifices tend to run afoul of the law).

Interesting you bring up Wicca. The new Wiccans-the ones that have emerged since the 60s (and there are many here is California) have reclaimed Halloween as their holiday.

http://www.witchway.net/halloween.html

Halloween, plain and simple is our favorite time of year. A true time for witches, Witchcraft itself, and Wiccans alike who feel that on this night the separation between the physical and spiritual realities is it's least guarded and it's veil the thinnest. It is a time for dimensional openings and workings, it is a somber holiday, one of dark clothes and thoughts for the dead, it is said to be the time when those of necromantic talents can speak with the dead and it is certainly a time to remember ones own dead. Witches believe it is a time of endings of relationships and bad situations and it is the time when one can see the glimmer of hope in the future. There are as many concepts attached to this holiday as any other, truly a time of remembrance of our ancestors and all those who have gone before.

and this one that has an interesting claim:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_np.htm

Ancient Druids were not bloodthirsty killers of humans. All of the stories of human sacrifices by Druids are traceable to a single passage in one of Julius Caesar's books. And that passage is probably simply a centuries-old example of wartime propaganda.

Ody, if you are around, do you know about the ancient Druids? I figure this is your kind of question.

Elspeth

10-23-2012, 12:48 PM

I grew up in a pretty Christian community-I had friends who weren't allowed to dance, who weren't allowed to listen to rock or pop music, and who weren't allowed to play on Sundays, but all of them went trick or treating on Halloween.

I grew up Catholic, and we always had the day after Halloween off (Nov. 1, All Saints Day) and were expected to go to church. November 2 was all Souls Day, and though church was not required when I was a kid, the church still celebrated it as a day when you prayed for all the people who weren't saints--that is, all the regular Janes and Joes who had died (like everyone!) who were waiting around in Purgatory until the right amount of time had passed when they could enter heaven. Purgatory was supposed to be a pretty dismal place, so we were told to pray for all those souls, and our prayers could cut off the time our loved ones would have to serve in this celestial DMV office.

noonwitch

10-23-2012, 02:11 PM

I grew up Catholic, and we always had the day after Halloween off (Nov. 1, All Saints Day) and were expected to go to church. November 2 was all Souls Day, and though church was not required when I was a kid, the church still celebrated it as a day when you prayed for all the people who weren't saints--that is, all the regular Janes and Joes who had died (like everyone!) who were waiting around in Purgatory until the right amount of time had passed when they could enter heaven. Purgatory was supposed to be a pretty dismal place, so we were told to pray for all those souls, and our prayers could cut off the time our loved ones would have to serve in this celestial DMV office.

I kind of like the idea behind All Soul's Day. A day to celebrate average people.

I think Purgatory is an interesting concept, but I particularly like your comparison to the DMV, where I have to go spend my morning and my money on Friday. They've come a long way over the past decade (although we call them the Secretary of State, here), but one computer malfunction and the whole system can crash for hours. I'll bring a book-maybe I'll bring Dante's Divine Comedy!

Elspeth

10-23-2012, 02:26 PM

I kind of like the idea behind All Soul's Day. A day to celebrate average people.

I think Purgatory is an interesting concept, but I particularly like your comparison to the DMV, where I have to go spend my morning and my money on Friday. They've come a long way over the past decade (although we call them the Secretary of State, here), but one computer malfunction and the whole system can crash for hours. I'll bring a book-maybe I'll bring Dante's Divine Comedy!

That seems appropriate. You can figure out which circle of hell will contain the DMV in the afterlife as you wait for divine intervention to get you to the window. :friendly_wink:

Elspeth

10-24-2012, 01:00 PM

School Officials: No Halloween Celebrations In Phoenixville District This Year (http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/10/22/school-officials-no-halloween-celebrations-in-phoenixville-district-this-year/)

PHOENIXVILLE, Pa. (CBS) – Halloween is a little more than one week away, but students at Schuylkill Elementary School aren’t planning their classroom costumes.

That’s because there won’t be a Halloween celebration here, or at the other two elementary schools in the Phoenixville School District.

District officials sent a letter home to parents on Monday, reminding them of the decision they said was sent out in the “Welcome Back” letter in August.

Superintendent Alan Fegley said there were a number of factors considered when making the decision, including that the elementary schools were all doing different celebrations and the school wanted to keep them consistent, that costume safety was becoming a real concern, and that students who couldn’t afford costumes were feeling left out.

District officials told Eyewitness News that the absentee rate more than doubled — from 4% to 9% — on Halloween.

THAT explains it. Schools can't afford a double absentee rate, even for a single day. Federal dollars are lost when kids are absent. --E

The kids may not be celebrating Halloween, but that doesn’t mean they’re having just a normal day at school. Fegley says they will have a fall festival, complete with parties for the kids.

Alison Cirone is helping plan her daughter’s second grade fall party. “I know we were told no scarecrows, no witches, no ghosts,” said Cirone.

Cirone is in charge of snacks and paper products.

“There were quite a few parents that were upset, and others were neutral,” said Cirone. “But I think some of us just wonder, there’s no more birthday celebrations, so if there’s not Halloween, what could there possibly be next that we won’t be celebrating in school?”

Donna Sisti’s children used to go to one of the public elementary schools. “It’s a fun activity for the kids that they look forward to every year. I don’t see why it should change.”

Eyewitness News talked to several parents off-camera who said they didn’t mind the decision.

In Monday’s letter, the superintendent also said, “We understand that not everyone will agree with this decision. We hope you will realize it was made with the best interests of ALL our students in mind.”

FlaGator

10-25-2012, 11:20 AM

You know, those people who get theys panties in a knot over "Happy Holidays".... are now sporting signs on they houses and churches that say, 'Happy Harvest" or "Harvest Festival Oct. 31 for the entire fambly"?

I say Keep All Hallows (and fairytale princesses, and astronauts, and vampires, and grim reapers and zombies....) in Halloween.

Your bigotry is showing...

Novaheart

10-25-2012, 11:28 AM

Your bigotry is showing...

Because I am speaking specifically of two white fundamentalist churches?

fifth avenue baptist church of saint petersburg

faith fellowship of saint petersburg

Wibbins

10-25-2012, 12:50 PM

I grew up Catholic, and we always had the day after Halloween off (Nov. 1, All Saints Day) and were expected to go to church. November 2 was all Souls Day, and though church was not required when I was a kid, the church still celebrated it as a day when you prayed for all the people who weren't saints--that is, all the regular Janes and Joes who had died (like everyone!) who were waiting around in Purgatory until the right amount of time had passed when they could enter heaven. Purgatory was supposed to be a pretty dismal place, so we were told to pray for all those souls, and our prayers could cut off the time our loved ones would have to serve in this celestial DMV office.

Wait... American Christmas is a Christian Holiday? What do colored lights, christmas trees, gift-wrapped presents, egg-nog, oversized stockings, laurel wreaths, and a fat man in red suit riding a sleigh powered by flying magic reindeer who drops presents down your chimney and can manipulate time have to do with the birth of Jesus?

We're not talking about Ramadan or Yom Kippur here.

AmPat

10-26-2012, 06:40 PM

We were the original. :biggrin-new:

Not so.

Hawkgirl

10-26-2012, 07:28 PM

Wait... American Christmas is a Christian Holiday? What do colored lights, christmas trees, gift-wrapped presents, egg-nog, oversized stockings, laurel wreaths, and a fat man in red suit riding a sleigh powered by flying magic reindeer who drops presents down your chimney and can manipulate time have to do with the birth of Jesus?

They all have Christian significance.

JB

10-26-2012, 07:46 PM

Wow, catholicism doesn't seem very Christian to me, purgatory, sainthood, confessional, mary etc.Catholics are the highest order of Christians.

Protestants, Lutherans, Methodists are just Catholic-lite. That is, they're Catholics that couldn't hack it any more so they had to invent something easier.

Novaheart

10-26-2012, 07:54 PM

Catholics are the highest order of Christians.

Protestants, Lutherans, Methodists are just Catholic-lite. That is, they're Catholics that couldn't hack it any more so they had to invent something easier.

Yeah, that explains it.

AmPat

10-26-2012, 08:37 PM

Catholics are the highest order of Christians.

Protestants, Lutherans, Methodists are just Catholic-lite. That is, they're Catholics that couldn't hack it any more so they had to invent something easier.

Now what are those 7 deadly sins again?

Elspeth

10-26-2012, 08:39 PM

Not so.

Are you referring to the Gnostics?

AmPat

10-26-2012, 08:58 PM

Are you referring to the Gnostics?How many years elaspsed between the Early Christian Church and Constantines conversion and Roman blessing for the Christian religion?
That would predate the behemoth RELIGION known as the Catholic Church.

Rockntractor

10-26-2012, 09:06 PM

Now what are those 7 deadly sins again?

The Catholics will probably make it in, but it will be so close their asses will be smoking.http://www.picgifs.com/smileys/smileys-and-emoticons/happy/smileys-happy-775829.gif (http://www.picgifs.com/smileys/)

Novaheart

10-28-2012, 11:53 AM

How many years elaspsed between the Early Christian Church and Constantines conversion and Roman blessing for the Christian religion?
That would predate the behemoth RELIGION known as the Catholic Church.

If the Council of Nicea was weld in 325 calling in all of the bishops of the day, then there were presumably bishops of the day. Each would be a bishop by apostolic succession. It was then that they declared their belief in one catholic and apostolic church, but that was an affirmation of what already existed. Constantine's command was that they get their shit together, standardize the liturgy, and make the existing Christian church an arm of the Roman government and unifying force in the Empire.

The first use of "catholic church (lower case) was in 107 AD and while it did not refer to the Vatican or Holy See, it would be difficult to argue that in retrospect it did not refer to that which would become the Catholic Church and eventually split into various other churches.

In any event, it wasn't a bunch of screaming, clapping, and dancing Baptists, that's for sure.

Wow. Nice going at showing your ignorance. Not one of those is considered a deadly sin even though some of those are considered sins save from your attempt at snarkiness by putting Bible reading in there. But you're an asshole anyway so this is to be expected.

Mistletoe
A sprig of evergreen plant hung at Christmas time. Custom is that people can kiss each other standing under it.

I get that these things are all customs that people do at Christmas. But that's not the same to me as having specific religious significance when associated with Jesus's birth. My point was just that American Christmas doesn't seem to be particularly religious (it seems more like an American holiday than a religious holiday).

djones520

10-28-2012, 02:34 PM

Mistletoe
A sprig of evergreen plant hung at Christmas time. Custom is that people can kiss each other standing under it.

I get that these things are all customs that people do at Christmas. But that's not the same to me as having specific religious significance when associated with Jesus's birth. My point was just that American Christmas doesn't seem to be particularly religious (it seems more like an American holiday than a religious holiday).

In the case of mistletoe, I don't think anyone really knows today how it became associated with Christmas. Mistletoe had a lot of connotations throughout pagan religions for male verility, and like many other aspects of pagan religions early christianity most likely tried to absorb it in some way.

txradioguy

10-28-2012, 02:38 PM

Wow. Nice going at showing your ignorance. Not one of those is considered a deadly sin even though some of those are considered sins save from your attempt at snarkiness by putting Bible reading in there. But you're an asshole anyway so this is to be expected.

You didn't expect a bigot like Nova to engage in honest debate did you?

Hawkgirl

10-28-2012, 02:57 PM

Okay, what is the Christian significance of these things.

Christmas tree-the evergreen is an ancient symbol of eternal life, which we have through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. The Christmas tree has a star on top. When we look at a Christmas Tree, we are reminded of the eternal life we will enjoy in the presence of Christ.

Christmas Lights-represent the fact that Jesus is the Light of the World in the midst of profound darkness. When we see Christmas lights on buildings and Christmas trees, and lit candles, we're reminded of Jesus, the Light of the World.

Nativity Scene-I don't have to explain this one do I?

The use of Red and Green Christmas colors: Red=the blood of Christ, the sacrifice of blood that Jesus shed while hanging on the cross.
Green=eternal life

Santa Claus : the original St. Nicklaus who lived in what is now modern-day Turkey back in the 3rd or 4th century. He was a devout Christian who served and helped poor people, living out the dictates of Jesus Christ. We honor him because he set us an excellent example. The Christmas stocking has many supposed origins. One is that children left their stockings on the fireplace mantle to dry, and St. Nick tiptoed in the door and dropped treats into them.

Bells:In the days before people had phones, wall calendars, wrist watches, etc, the church, which was the center of the community, would ring its bell(s) to call people to church services, toll someone's death, etc. The bells were (and still are, in some places) rung to announce the anniversary of Christ's birth. When we see Christmas bells, we are reminded of the announcement of Jesus' birth.

Stars: at Christmas time represent the biblical Star of Bethlehem for the wise men to follow,. It is said that they travelled so far that by the time they found Jesus, He was a couple years old. When we see stars at Christmas time, they remind us of that special star that showed foreign dignitaries where Jesus was.

Gifts: Giving one another presents is a ritual straight from the Bible. Salvation is called in the New Testament 'A free gift'. Jesus is God's gift to human beings. We give each other gifts because God set the precedent by giving so much to us, in the form of His creation, His Son, and Himself. When we see Christmas presents they remind us of the most precious gift God gave us-- the way to Heaven through Jesus.

Some things like candy canes, mistletoe etc may originally come from the pagans.

RobJohnson

10-28-2012, 06:17 PM

So, you are saying that celebrating a harvest, rather than Halloween, offends your sensibilities? I wasn't aware that you'd converted to Wicca (at least, I hope that it's Wicca; if you've become a Druid, the ceremonial sacrifices tend to run afoul of the law).

Of course the clueless troll does not realize that harvest celebrations are a way to celebrate the end of a long & tough spring and summer for the farmers. Harvest Festivals have been around for a very, very long time.

MountainMan

11-02-2012, 12:06 AM

Catholics are the highest order of Christians.

Protestants, Lutherans, Methodists are just Catholic-lite. That is, they're Catholics that couldn't hack it any more so they had to invent something easier.

Man, what are you smoking? Lutherans are just like Catholics without the whole guilt thing.....and we have better pot lucks than any other religion either.:biggrin-new:

Elspeth

11-02-2012, 12:30 AM

Top 10 Christmas Symbols (http://www.squidoo.com/christmas_symbols)

Wreaths of Holly and Berries

- Druids once believed that holly, with its shiny leaves and red berries stayed green in Winter to keep the earth beautiful when the sacred Oak lost it leaves.

- Holly was the sacred plant of Saturn and was used at the Roman Saturnalia festival to honor him. Romans gave one another holly wreaths and carried them about decorating images of Saturn with it.

- Holly in Christianity, serves as a reminder of the crown of thorns worn by Jesus Christ at his crucifixion.

The Star Atop The Tree
Guidance and Protection

The original Nautical Star, or North Star, was seen as providing guidance, and good luck for sailors.

- In Germany and in Amish lore, the 5-Pointed Star provides protection from fire and lightning or a protection for livestock, good fortune, hope, love, fertility, energy and harmony. The Eight-Pointed Star symbolizes goodwill, good omens, light and protection. The Triple Star represents good luck, success and happiness.

- Before becoming a prominent symbol of Judaism, the six pointed star was used by alchemists and was said to have been used by Druid priests as protection against evil ghosts.

- In the Old Testament, the starry sky symbolized the numerous children of Abraham, and gave direction to the promised land.

- In Christianity, the Star of Bethlehem guided the three wise men and announced the birth of Christ. Eventually, stars were placed on the tops of Christmas Trees to celebrate His birth.

The Tree of Life and The Origin of The Christmas Tree

Pagans had considered the "World Tree" or the "Tree of Life" as a representative of life and their universe for thousands of years. It was only natural to continue to use a tree as a symbol for the birth and re-birth of Christ.

In the early seventeenth century, Germans began bringing these trees indoors at Christmas and decorating them with candles.

The end result is that today we see these trees all over the world, used in a festive spirit of peace and joy, and still place a star or an Angel over the top, much as the Ancients did over 5000 years ago.

The Ringing of The Bells

Drive out Evil
-Bells were rung at pagan winter celebrations. It was thought that evil spirits could be driven out by loud noises, and bells often accompanied singing and shouting.

- Bells are mentioned in the Old Testament as being used on the robes of the high priest.

- During the Middle ages bells were rung with increasing frequency until midnight, to warn the devil of the approaching birth of the Christ Child.

Mistletoe and the Kissing Ball
Health and Luck
- The vines and berries of mistletoe were sacred to the ancient Druids who used them in their sacrifices to the gods as well as to celebrate the winter solstice.

- The mistletoe, which was also believed to have miraculous healing powers, was placed over doorways to ward off evil and bestow health, happiness, and good luck.

- In eighteenth century England, kissing balls were made of evergreens, ribbons, and ornaments with sprigs of mistletoe tied to the bottoms of the balls.

- Because embraces of welcome occurred at doorways, the custom evolved into balls of greens and berries hung at entrances.

Molon Labe

11-02-2012, 09:33 AM

Are you serious?

Do they still think Halloween is a demonic holiday?

Halloween has it's origins in some pretty weird Occult stuff. I personally knew a reformed Satanist who said that making Halloween all warm and fuzzy was bad. Some people hold it very sacred for nefarious reasons.

Novaheart

11-02-2012, 09:53 AM

Wow. Nice going at showing your ignorance. Not one of those is considered a deadly sin even though some of those are considered sins save from your attempt at snarkiness by putting Bible reading in there. But you're an asshole anyway so this is to be expected.

So you get that the list is "snarkiness" but you think it's a sign of ignorance of the subject matter. I think that spending all that time policing the caged humans with IQ's averaging near chimpanzees is taking its toll on you.

Hawkgirl

11-02-2012, 05:07 PM

Man, what are you smoking? Lutherans are just like Catholics without the whole guilt thing.....and we have better pot lucks than any other religion either.:biggrin-new:

The Jews have cornered the market on guilt, with Catholics a close second. it's guilt that makes us not do the wrong thing. It has always worked fo me.:blue:

djones520

11-02-2012, 05:11 PM

The Jews have cornered the market on guilt, with Catholics a close second. it's guilt that makes us not do the wrong thing. It has always worked fo me.:blue:

I thought the Jews had the market cornered on "WHY ME!?!?!?!".

I will say that the other day I drove by a local episcopalian church that was advertising their harvest festival, on Oct 31st, from 6-8pm.

I don't know anything about whether or not it's a halloween deflection or an actual celebration of the harvest (which blew this year), but the fact that it occured right when the prime trick or treating hours were did catch my eye.

Hawkgirl

11-02-2012, 05:19 PM

Harvest festivals are normally before Thanksgiving. Setveral churches in my neighborhood have them. They have pumpkins, scarecrows, corn mazes...etc. Some start right before Halloween. In fact I went to one last weekend with my daughter. I was not offended.:rolleyes: