Thanks for posting this as it is a great reference, but the big thing we need to know is how much cap space will be gained/lost if we cut one of these players. People are about to start yelling for KVB, Nate, and Dom to be cut/possibly resigned, but it is possible that the savings simply won't be there.

KVB's cap number is over 10 million. That is way too high, but if cutting him only nets us 1 million or so in space it might not be worth it to lose his leadership.

January 17th, 2013, 5:06 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3485Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

Great post Pablo.

January 17th, 2013, 5:14 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

LioneeR wrote:

Thanks for posting this as it is a great reference, but the big thing we need to know is how much cap space will be gained/lost if we cut one of these players. People are about to start yelling for KVB, Nate, and Dom to be cut/possibly resigned, but it is possible that the savings simply won't be there.

KVB's cap number is over 10 million. That is way too high, but if cutting him only nets us 1 million or so in space it might not be worth it to lose his leadership.

Like I said, last season was the season to cut Nate. Now people are starting to realize what I was talking about. Because Martin Mayhew kept kicking the can down the road, and "restructuring" Nate's deal, later guarantying his salary, cutting Nate only nets us about $500k. His salary of $6.5 million is flat our ridiculous and he should have been gone last year. That's why I say Mayhew isn't as "shrewed" as you guys make him out to be. He really has been the "boob" in many contract negotiations.

To the best of my knowledge KVBs salary (and the amount we would save if we cut him) is $5 million dollars. He would still count $5 mill toward the cap, but it would be wise to replace him for the $5 mill. That said, if he's willing to take $2 mill in salary, saving us $3, do we do it? We're not going to be able to negotiate his contract below $5 mill, that much is guaranteed. What number is he worth outside of that $5 mill? $1 mill? $2 mill? His leadership is welcome and needed, but we really need a LB field general out there calling plays and putting people in position.

This team is a wreck.

January 17th, 2013, 5:23 pm

thelomasbrowns

Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2824

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

I knew Dom was well paid--i didn't know he was THAT well paid. Get rid of the guy!

_________________"Good teams don't worry about a whole lot of stuff. They travel, they play, they win. And it doesn't matter where they go, what the time block is, all those kinds of things. They never seem to bother teams that play well, and we want to be one of those teams." -Jim Caldwell

January 17th, 2013, 5:28 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

thelomasbrowns wrote:

I knew Dom was well paid--i didn't know he was THAT well paid. Get rid of the guy!

It's been that way for three seasons. That's why I wanted Kontz so bad, and Alex Mack before that. His salary is ridiculous for his contribution to this team.

January 17th, 2013, 5:30 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3485Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

wjb21ndtown wrote:

thelomasbrowns wrote:

I knew Dom was well paid--i didn't know he was THAT well paid. Get rid of the guy!

It's been that way for three seasons. That's why I wanted Kontz so bad, and Alex Mack before that. His salary is ridiculous for his contribution to this team.

You werent the only one WJB, you werent the only one.

January 17th, 2013, 5:48 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

kdsberman wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

thelomasbrowns wrote:

I knew Dom was well paid--i didn't know he was THAT well paid. Get rid of the guy!

It's been that way for three seasons. That's why I wanted Kontz so bad, and Alex Mack before that. His salary is ridiculous for his contribution to this team.

You werent the only one WJB, you werent the only one.

I'm pretty sure I was a lone soldier regarding Nate B...

"WJB, why do you HATE NATE!?!?!?" was the general sentiment. He's flat out not worth his contribution to the team. Mayhew screwed us, yet again.

January 17th, 2013, 6:16 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4180Location: Davison Mi

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

wjb21ndtown wrote:

thelomasbrowns wrote:

I knew Dom was well paid--i didn't know he was THAT well paid. Get rid of the guy!

It's been that way for three seasons. That's why I wanted Kontz so bad, and Alex Mack before that. His salary is ridiculous for his contribution to this team.

100% with ya here. when he was available n the 2nd I nearly messed my shorts...untill we drafted a WR. it may not be fair to broyles, but I HATED that pick. Most people had us getting Kontz in the first round....sigh

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

January 17th, 2013, 6:37 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

regularjoe12 wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

thelomasbrowns wrote:

I knew Dom was well paid--i didn't know he was THAT well paid. Get rid of the guy!

It's been that way for three seasons. That's why I wanted Kontz so bad, and Alex Mack before that. His salary is ridiculous for his contribution to this team.

100% with ya here. when he was available n the 2nd I nearly messed my shorts...untill we drafted a WR. it may not be fair to broyles, but I HATED that pick. Most people had us getting Kontz in the first round....sigh

It really pisses me off that Kontz has been pretty decent at OG too. He would have been an upgrade over Peterman, and a HUGE upgrade over Dom next season, not to mention that he would have taken nearly a decade off of our OL. He played really well in Atls playoff game.

January 17th, 2013, 6:46 pm

sweetd20

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 amPosts: 2489

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

For me the mistake with not replacing Raiola was taking Fairley instead of Pouncey a couple of years ago. As far as Nate goes I think they kept him around because they haven't been able to develop any WR talent over the past decade. CJ is who he is and with better coaching would probably even better. If you look at it financially last year was the right time to let Nate go, but as far as production keeping him was the right move at the time and again that goes back to the inability to develop talent.

Looking ahead I'd move on without KVB, Raiola, TY, Best, and I wouldn't mind moving on from Nate even if it only means a minimal gain. Unfortunately the lack of WR depth doesn't really make it viable. As far as their FAs are concerned I'd let Cherilus walk if he wants more than average RT money. Next both Durant and Levy can find employment else where and likely get overpaid by another team instead of the Lions for once. The same goes for Houston, if the Lions offer him more than an average salary between $3.5-4 million they are foolish. Avril is as good as gone with teams with big cap space likely to overpay him the first year or two and make him cutable in afew years. At some point this team needs to learn that the best player on the team doesn't always mean they should get paid top tier money. Tulloch being re-signed is a prime example they overpaid for a MLB that lacks pop and is a liability in coverage.

The Lions have some talented players but they need to learn to develop talent and not just overpay average FAs big contracts. The future of the Lions is CJ and Stafford and even if it means a step back like this year was; the two of them are young enough that if the team starts spending wisely they can still have about six years of top production from the two of them. The problem with the Lions is they always game plan for the current season and never look ahead. Some of the most consistantbteams don't overpay or at least rarely do so and aren't scared to let big names walk.

January 17th, 2013, 8:12 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

sweetd20 wrote:

For me the mistake with not replacing Raiola was taking Fairley instead of Pouncey a couple of years ago. As far as Nate goes I think they kept him around because they haven't been able to develop any WR talent over the past decade. CJ is who he is and with better coaching would probably even better. If you look at it financially last year was the right time to let Nate go, but as far as production keeping him was the right move at the time and again that goes back to the inability to develop talent.

Looking ahead I'd move on without KVB, Raiola, TY, Best, and I wouldn't mind moving on from Nate even if it only means a minimal gain. Unfortunately the lack of WR depth doesn't really make it viable. As far as their FAs are concerned I'd let Cherilus walk if he wants more than average RT money. Next both Durant and Levy can find employment else where and likely get overpaid by another team instead of the Lions for once. The same goes for Houston, if the Lions offer him more than an average salary between $3.5-4 million they are foolish. Avril is as good as gone with teams with big cap space likely to overpay him the first year or two and make him cutable in afew years. At some point this team needs to learn that the best player on the team doesn't always mean they should get paid top tier money. Tulloch being re-signed is a prime example they overpaid for a MLB that lacks pop and is a liability in coverage.

The Lions have some talented players but they need to learn to develop talent and not just overpay average FAs big contracts. The future of the Lions is CJ and Stafford and even if it means a step back like this year was; the two of them are young enough that if the team starts spending wisely they can still have about six years of top production from the two of them. The problem with the Lions is they always game plan for the current season and never look ahead. Some of the most consistantbteams don't overpay or at least rarely do so and aren't scared to let big names walk.

Sweet, I feel you on Pouncy, but I think Alex Mack was the real blunder. We're splitting hairs though, the bottom line is, an effective GM should have replaced at least one or two of these pieces on the OL with REAL TALENT 2-3 years ago. It's utterly irresponsible what Mayhew has done with this team, IMO. I also agree on WR talent, but my issue is not picking one up in FA last year. Nate is just flat out not a #2. That's the bottom line. He's one of the better paid #2's in the league, and he's a mediocre #3 AT BEST. Rather than "restructure his deal" kick the can down the road, and get us in bigger cap trouble, Nate should have been cut last year, we would have saved $3 mill, and we'd have $3 mill to play with this year. Now, I realize that the player we signed would likely eat up that $3 mill and then some (but not by much more), but that's a heck of a lot better than paying him $6.5 this year. That's just moronic, and all but about $500k of it is guaranteed next season, if I'm not mistakin'.

IMO the bottom line is Mayhew has to go. He's SLIGHTLY better at evaluating talent that Millen, but he has no clue as to how to run a team. I think Schwartz has to go too, I don't think he has the personality to lead this team, but if we hire an effective GM he may be able to temper Schwartz's douchiness...

January 17th, 2013, 8:43 pm

inheritedlionsfan

League MVP

Joined: January 13th, 2006, 4:18 amPosts: 3632Location: Maryland

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

We're so hamstrung with the contracts we've had to pay out to the #1 or #2 overall picks (Calvin, Stafford and Suh currently) that I'd be surprised if we were able to add any free agent of note from another team. We have to re-do Stafford this year and probably Suh next year unless the cap jumps up more than the $1M it is this season. Even with extensions, it's not like they'll take less money than their current mega-contracts are paying them, so it will still be big money just spread out further. Unless we hit on some later round picks this year and some of the guys from last year step up, we're screwed. Those are the guys who are supposed to be filling in our roster and taking over for impending free agents, but we don't have a lot to show past the second round in the last 3 years.

I dunno about you but I'm not comfortable with a defense consisting of Young, Suh, Fairley, and R.Lewis, Whitehead, Tulloch and T.Lewis, Bentley, Greenwood, Spivey and Delmas, and that's assuming we re-sign Young, Delmas and Spivey!

January 17th, 2013, 9:21 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

inheritedlionsfan wrote:

We're so hamstrung with the contracts we've had to pay out to the #1 or #2 overall picks (Calvin, Stafford and Suh currently) that I'd be surprised if we were able to add any free agent of note from another team. We have to re-do Stafford this year and probably Suh next year unless the cap jumps up more than the $1M it is this season. Even with extensions, it's not like they'll take less money than their current mega-contracts are paying them, so it will still be big money just spread out further. Unless we hit on some later round picks this year and some of the guys from last year step up, we're screwed. Those are the guys who are supposed to be filling in our roster and taking over for impending free agents, but we don't have a lot to show past the second round in the last 3 years.

I dunno about you but I'm not comfortable with a defense consisting of Young, Suh, Fairley, and R.Lewis, Whitehead, Tulloch and T.Lewis, Bentley, Greenwood, Spivey and Delmas, and that's assuming we re-sign Young, Delmas and Spivey!

Like I said brother... last offseason was the offseason to make it happen.

I've never been so irate or negative on here for a 3 month period, ever. People act like I'm this "negative Nancy," but I was never that way until about the 3rd year into Millen's term. The team hasn't done much right sense, I've seen it coming before it happened, and people get mad that I recognize things that they're too blind to see.

Maybe the next regime will get it right.

January 17th, 2013, 9:27 pm

thelomasbrowns

Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2824

Re: Lions 2013 Cap Situation - Who is getting paid what

If you look at it, our major problems still stem from the draft pre-rookie wage scale. I still think they should offer some kind of 'cap amnesty' to teams in this situation because contracts like Suh's and Staff's were unavoidable at the time. Suh is a great player and all, but his cap hit makes me physically ill.

_________________"Good teams don't worry about a whole lot of stuff. They travel, they play, they win. And it doesn't matter where they go, what the time block is, all those kinds of things. They never seem to bother teams that play well, and we want to be one of those teams." -Jim Caldwell