There was a lot of discussion about the Mosin Nagant 1891 CO2 BB Rifle last time. Some of you were angry that such an airgun even existed, while others complained about the firearm from which it was copied! That’s like panning the World War II Liberator pistol because it isn’t a sporting arm!

Other folks were intrigued by this gun, but I still heard a lot of warnings. One was that Gletcher CO2 guns all leak — or at least that was one person’s experience. As it turns out, that ties into today’s report, so let’s start there.

Piercing the first cartridge
I was warned by a blog reader that the gun might leak. So when I pierced the first CO2 cartridge, I was extra cautious. And it did leak! For more than a minute, gas leaked out very slowly. I’d used Crosman Pellgunoil on the tip of the cartridge, as I always do, so that wasn’t the problem.

Remember the report I recently wrote about how to make CO2 guns better? That report talked about face seals that are too thick (making the piercing pin too short) that can cause problems with new guns. That was the problem with this gun. So, I cranked the piercing screw tighter, forcing the cartridge into the face seal harder. That slowed the leak but didn’t stop it.

Then, I backed off on the piercing screw, allowing the cartridge to move back because it’s being pushed by the thick face seal. That lets the Pellgunoil get around to the back of the face seal and fix any small irregularities in the metal against which the seal is pressing. I had to do this several times — tightening and loosening — but never to the point the CO2 was escaping around the seal as it does when you remove the cartridge.

Eventually, the leak stopped completely. The gun was now sealed as it should be. Many modern gas guns seal rapidly with a pop when their cartridges are installed, so the procedure I just described may seem strange to many of you. This was what we used to do with most gas guns in the 1960s. I lived through that time, so this procedure doesn’t seem that strange. It’s just that I haven’t had to do it in many years.

Daisy BBs
I began the test shooting 10 Daisy Premium Grade BBs. The first shot went 414 f.p.s., which I thought was brisk, the following shots all decreased in velocity until, on shot 5, I had a double-feed. That shot recorded 270 f.p.s., but with both BBs going through the chronograph that’s to be expected. The shot after that one (shot 7?) went 394 f.p.s., and then they dwindled again. Shot 10 went out at 391 f.p.s. During this entire string, I was waiting a minimum of 10 seconds between shots.

Hornady Black Diamond BBs
There were some feeding problems with the Hornady Black Diamond BBs. They seemed a trifle large for the magazine, and one actually stuck in the hole where they’re loaded but also come out when shot.

The first shot was a double-feed that registered 311 f.p.s. on the chronograph. After that, the velocities were all over the place. Let me show you:

I will not bother giving the average for this string, because that number would not apply to any actually shot. This is a bimodal distribution, which is fancy talk for saying that there are 2 things happening. In this case, something is happening randomly that puts the velocity into either the high or low category. Bottom line: This is not good.

Umarex Precision Steel BBs
Next to be tested were Umarex Precision Steel BBs. They loaded just like the Daisy BBs, and that gave me hope that they would also do well. They were also the only BB that shot all 10 shots from the gun without a double-feed. But look at the string:

The average for this string was 334 f.p.s., but you’ll notice that none went at that speed, or even very close. That’s that bimodal thing again. Even these BBs, which seemed okay during loading, did poorly in the velocity test.

So, I went back to Daisy BBs once more. This time they started out at 371 f.p.s. and dropped to 297 f.p.s. on shots 9 and 10, which was a double-feed.

It’s over — for now
Okay, I thought. I’ll give it one more chance. I loaded another 10 Daisy BBs. When the first shot was a double-feed at 215 f.p.s., the test was over.

I don’t give up on an airgun often, but I am giving up on this one. However, because it has so many good reviews, I’ve ordered a replacement from Pyramyd Air .

I’m sad bout how this has turned out, because this Mosin Nagant airgun has a lot going for it. The weight of the gun and the rugged construction do put me in mind of a Mosin Nagant firearm. Say what you will about 98 Mausers and 1903 Springfields (and I have said as much as anyone about both of them), the 1891 Mosin Nagant is a classic military rifle that’s earned its rich reputation for reliability and simplicity.

It was a pleasure to handle this Mosin BB gun and cock the bolt that didn’t fight with me because of an overly powerful mainspring. I didn’t mention it, yet, but the rear sight on my test gun is so loose and wobbly that I was wondering if I could put all my shots into the BB trap at 5 meters. Then, when BBs started coming out 2 at a time and bouncing off the walls of my office, I knew I couldn’t.

73 thoughts on “Mosin Nagant 1891 CO2 BB Rifle: Part 2”

Hopefully the replacement gun will work better. I like to see more brands out there to choose from. Besides,lot of fun reading the different reviews of those different choices.
BB, do you have a favorite plinker pistol ? Just to kill a little time, I seem to end up with my non blowback Makarov bb pistol. for fun plinking. For a change of pace and do a little cold weather plinking, seem to go back to my 1377. Keep up the good work. I enjoy your posts.

I hope the gun you received to test is not typical of all Gletcher guns. While I don’t really have a desire to own the Mosin Nagant I am very interested in another of their guns the Gletcher SW R44. I think I am going to wait to see some reviews (hopefully one will be by you) before ordering after reading about this gun.

BB–I have been looking at gadgets that use co2 to unload muzzle loading firearms without firing them. I wonder if there is a way to convert muzzleloaders into co2 powered guns ? Or into pcp,s? I have an under hammer that could have its forestock replaced with an air tank ( ditto for its buttstock). Ed

I tried to upload this this morning in your blog about 10 yrs but my computer/or the blog site wouldn’t let me. So I replaced it with a longer version but it, too, failed to upload. When I tried to retrieve it, this original showed up but I lost the second one. Computers…AAARRGGHHH! Anyway:

Dear Edith,
Thank you for this address. I followed it to Tom’s Shotgun News articles, then from there to the Am Airgunner site and from there to the American Airgunner episodes on youtube. FINALLY! I got to see eps of Am Airgunner, which I’d been wanting to see since its inception (I never was able to see them on my TV lineup). Again, Thank you. It was great to see Tom and to hear him speak.
JoeB

Your original comment went to the spam folder, and I approved it very shortly after you submitted it. Likewise, I happen to be unable to sleep and am doing some work and saw this comment in the spam folder and approved it.

I’m going to add you to the good-guy list for the blog to see if that stops sending everything to spam.

I had trouble sleeping. Usually because my brain won’t stop thinking about what needs to be done in the future. I can replay that list over and over. There’s three things I do that help me get a decent nights sleep:

1-I quit working at least an hour before I go to bed.
2-I add the items to my TO DO list that are only in my head
3-I warm a glass of milk so it’s too hot to drink, immediately stir in a tablespoon of honey and grate fresh nutmeg on top. I drink this about 30 minutes before I go to bed. (recipe is from Gayelord Hausers book, New Treasury of Secrets, I bought about 40 years ago. We make his recipe for henrici’s pancake at least every 2-3 weeks. Everyone likes it. )

I take off from exercise on Wednesdays, Saturdays & Sundays, and the nights before those days are so exciting to me because I look forward to cooking when I get up early the next morning. This morning, I got up after 3 hours of sleep and made lemon-blueberry scones, cherry-chocolate scones and sweet potato biscuits. And that’s not even everything I wanted to do! If you find something that delights you so much that you can’t sleep, I think that’s actually a good thing if not taken to extremes. Also, I have so many exciting things planned for Tom’s website that I can hardly contain myself (and that’s what I was working on last night). These are the things that keep my motor running 🙂

Aaah, Mosin… One of favorite models here. However almost no one uses it the way it’s been built. The rule is to buy this, buy a surplus Mosin stock, remove original barrel, install longer 4.45 smoothbarrel blank or rifled one for lead BBs shrouded to look like real Mosin and then install all this into original wood. Then it is considered to be “proper” and becomes a thing of awe 🙂
By the way, real obrez had no front sight and the one used here is a copy of Chinese post-WWII Mosin clone’s.

Feast your eyes 🙂 All pics don’t belong to me, they are made by their respected owners.

Of course, there should be some milling and drilling as Gletcher receiver is a bit thicker in some places (to fit CO2 bottle), and changing barrel is no dumb task, but with some tools and installation of eyes.dll, straight_hands.sys and head.ini people do marvels.

Duskwight
Unfortunately I am unable to access any of the pictures from the links you provided. From reading BB’s reply, I would assume he had no trouble viewing the links. I get a “403 Forbidden” message at the top of a blank page. I wonder if Canada has somehow started refusing message links sent from Russia in protest to the troubles in the Ukraine. Sounds like something our astute politicians would dream up. I enjoy reading articles and books concerning the weaponry of the two World Wars.The Mosin Nagant has earned a place alongside the iconic rifles of Britain, America, Switzerland, etc
Ciao
Titus

Copy one of the URLs that duskwight supplied in his comment and paste it into the search box on the above site. It’ll take you to duskwight’s image. After you’re done looking, click the browser back button and insert the next URL in the search field. Do that with every URL and any other site the gov’t snoops don’t want you to see. Unclick the checkboxes below the search field for things you don’t want.

While we’re on this subject: I don’t like Google and other search engines tracking my every move. I’m not doing anything illegal, but that’s no excuse to let down your guard and invite constant intrusion from companies that I don’t know and don’t know how they’re using my info. I use only these search engines because of that:

There are some guys here, they make stainless or brass barrels/liners with 4.45 inner diameter up to over 500 mm length. Steel BBs here are most times made at ball bearing factories or they are their refuse, not hardened of course. So 4.45 fits best ang gives good gas sealing.
Another good solution is to use properly heat-treated copper tube from fridge’s heatsink/condenser, they are perfectly 4.5 ID. There are also brass and stainless tubes sold, they vary from 4.48 to 4.6 mm ID. Anyway this solution call for shroud for support and realistic barrel OD.

Of course not pellets. Rifled barrels are for lead BBs (read my first comment here). Well, lead BB from rifled barrel, somewhat elongated on travel through the barrel seems to fly better than steel BB from smooth barrel.

Conversion pics – see my answer to BB, which I’m going to punch in right after I put here this dot > .

Duskwight,
I like yourasessment of the round lead balls’tendency to conform to barrel restrictions and also consider the absence of a flared skirt helps sustain energy transferwhile minimizing wind deflection.

I just go an email from PA with the new design for from the Crosman 1377/1322. It appeared that all of the changes were cosmetic from description in the ad and on the PA site. Do you know if there were any other changes than new foregrips and pistol grips?

I really like the new looks. I might have to order one in 22 to go with my 1377c that I purchased a couple of months ago. I really would like one with the butt stock, steel breach, and a 16″ to 18″ barrel. I wish that the Crosman Custom Shop would offer the 13xx as option. Hmm… I wonder if PA is going to put the older model on sale.

I know that I can order the steel breach and butt stock from PA but what about a barrel? What is a good source? I don’t believe that Crosman offers them direct anymore.

At the bottom right of their home page and click on the diagrams and manuals.

The only long barrel that I know of is the Discovery barrel and its roughly 23″ long. Get the part number of the diagram and call and order it.

I don’t think there is any guns that have a barrel in the 16-18″ length that you can get a part number from.

I had a couple 1377’s that I put the 1399 stock on and the steel breech and disco barrel. One I left full legnth. And the other I cut down to I think it was 18″ and recrowned.

And the main reason I cut it down was it was to long for my daughters to walk and carry at that time. It wasn’t about performance because both legnth barrels grouped pretty well the same and it was no more than if I’m remembering right about 70 fps difference between the two barrels.

And while you looking at the diagrams any barrel that fits the plastic breech that the 1377/22 and 2300 and 2240 series guns will fit and work with that steel breech and your 1377/22.

Bummer! I have been drooling over this air gun ever since i first saw it on P.A.’s New Products page. Did you try any Copperheads? They’re so much smaller perhaps they could do better, if the Mosin’s problem is a tight barrel.

I just heard a advertisment on the radio for the Long Beach Home Show. They had a list of attractions including a airgun range. I was really surprised, I’ve never heard of such a thing before. Especally here in very very liberal southern California.

I just visited that show’s website and looked at the special features and what’s happening at the show, and nothing was listed about guns, airguns or a range. If you go, let us know if there really is a range.

B.B., I don’t know if it matters much in this instance, but I have decided to mention it. Although the context is about extending the life of a co2 gun the method is to place a piece of plumber’s teflon tape on the tip of the co2 cartridge to seal irregularities that have developed. I can’t mention my source for this info due to conflict of interest issues, but I do consider the source to be reliable.

The process you have described for us certainly is less expensive and worth knowing. I just mention the tape as an alternative possible solution. I plan to try this on one of my pistols as soon as I remember to stop in and get a roll of the tape.

I have had the Nagant Revolver for a few weeks and I have had no problem with leaks or double loading or anything else for that matter. The gun handles and shoots great, is very accurate and is built exceptionally well.

I just thought you should know about a very positive experience with a Gletcher product.

And I see they got that anti-recoil scope mount listed in their new products. I like to know if it will really save a scope. And just as important will it still produce a good group of shots when used with the same scope on the same gun. And its suppose to be a drooper mount at that.

I have the drooper mount on my wish list for the 460 Magnum. That’s a wait and see for me since the Leapers drooper and rings do work well. However the combo positions the scope a bit high for my liking.

What I would like to see is a two peice scope ring set that has the droop and angle made into the set.

That way all you would have to worry about is mounting the rings on the gun and be done. Only the rings and not have the multiple clamping if the rings to the droop mount then the droop mount to the gun.

I have a set of Sport Match adjustable rings I bought from Pyramyd to try on the 460 Magnum but I haven’t been able to try them yet. That along with gettng a base line on the Crosman Vantage project rifle have been on hold because of the lousy winter weather we have been having. It snowed Sunday and is snowing again today. When it isn’t snowing it has been bitter cold, can’t wait for spring.

I just got my 1720T yesterday and was chronying it to compare the results with one I had before and sold. (For what reason I don’t know. Because it was a accurate gun. I think I sold it to use the money towards getting another gun.)

But anyway it started snowing right in the middle of my chrony session so I had to stop.

Well after my experience with Gletchers, It seems you were underwhelmed as well. I fooled around repositioning the cartridge , but was not successful even backing off a little resulted in immediate leaking of ALL the co2 , even after your tranny leak fluid as a hail Mary. I feel Gletcher productsare not equal to the other companies products offered by Pyramid. Will stick with known companies, My prediction , Gletcher will be gone soon. Sent the Stechkin back and will get a Peacemaker and when available the Umarex SELECT fire Beretta

I have to repeat myself. I have the Nagant Revolver and I forgot that I also have the Gletcher Tokarev TT . Both of these guns are very well built. The finishes are excellent. They both handle very well and are above average accuracy.

I have not had a single problem with either of them. So far I would say that the Gletcher guns are at least equivalent to both Smith & Wesson and Dan Wesson guns. I hope that others start to have the same experiences with them as mine. I would hate to see them go.

Well a broken clock is right twice a day. Glad yours work, but I won’t take any more chances with them. Looking forward to the new SIG AIR lineup. Best new airgun for design ,innovation and quality , the Webley Mark VI. They should offer more variations like the short barrel bulldog