A Muslim cleric said back in 2011 that Islam allows for girls as young as 2 to be married off, as long as the marriage is not consummated before age 9. He cited the example of Prophet Muhammad and said that if it was acceptable for the Prophet then it was acceptable for Muslims to do so. This has added more legitimacy to the growing practice of child brides in the Middle East. India is also plagued by this thanks to Hindu traditions, which allow children to be married to adults. Currently there are 25,000 new child brides every single day, and unless something is done about it, over the next decade 100,000,000 new girls will be married off to grown men. This has led to an increase in violence against women, as husbands frequently beat their child brides into submission. But more worryingly, it is resulting in long term physical harm for these children. Child brides often suffer from obstructed labor, ruptured organs, and massive internal bleeding as their bodies are not mature enough to handle a pregnancy to full term and delivery.

I have linked an article below that contains pictures documenting this practice. The pictures are sad, and show a life of tears, abuse, and neglect that many of these child brides have to endure. But I post it because it is important to put a face to this shocking practice if we are ever going to raise awareness of this evil and disgusting practice. The stories of these girls must be told, and pressure must be put on the religious communities to do something about it. Remember that 100,000,000 girls over the next decade will be subjected to this unless people do something about the problem.

I know that the culture over in that part of the world is far behind ours. I have a problem with what we are doing. I hate when these people come to our country to live and try to force our country to change to be more like the one they fled. The muslims are pressing for sharia law in the U.S.. We are equally guilty of changing their laws to be more like ours. Unless we are going to truly drop the whole idea of borders, we need to stop playing with the laws of other countries. I get that you hate the idea of marriages to children. I agree that a marrage with a child that is 2 is way way too early. I do however disagree with you about fucking with the laws in another country. What happens if the muslims that are in favor of the practice start to outnumber people like you in this country. Do you really think that our lying theiving politicians would hesitate to make it legal if they were certain that it would buy them enough votes to stay in power? They may have good reason to do what they do over there. In this country even the fat lazy pieces of shit with no desire to work for a living and sit on welfare all their lives have access to housing, food, clothing, and health care. Not to mention they are also given computers and cars. In the poor third world country where daughters are married off, children are unfortunately a commodity. If you do change things to make sure that this cannot happen, all you will be doing is condemning those families and the children in question to starving to death. Before you say that we can help by offering food and money, take a good look at things. Our economy is circling the drain really fast now and about to be pulled under. Our government hands over billions of dollars a year to many of these countries. Not only do we never get paid back, but the money never gets to the people that need it. It is taken by the corrupt dictators that use it to maintain and further their power. I also ask you to define child marriage. What constitutes a child to you? When I was in high school I knew kids that were extremely smart and I knew some that were so slow they were almost mute. They had the blank (lights are on but nobody is home stare). They were failing the class that I shared with them while I was getting A's without even trying. In fact, you might say I was the biggest asshole in the class. Constantly back-talking the teacher. I am now 33 and I am sure the kids I mentioned are around 32 or 33 by now as well. If you were to meet one, you would probably equate their level of function to that of a 4 or 5 year old. Actually scratch that, I would have to say less than that. If I encountered one of them tomorrow, I could bang the shit out of her as long as she consented to it. Now let's talk about a normal and healthy 17 year old. Some consider 17 to be still a child. If I were to jump into bed with a 17 year old, my ass would be in prison. So, where do you draw the line? Also, you make the case for having a baby before being fully developed being dangerous. What about people that are never going to be fully developed. There are some that I learned about through one of those cop shows out there. They still look 12 even late into there 20's and lose the ability to reproduce before the age of 25. Do you advocate making it illegal for them to have children or even to ever has sex? Then what about midgets, dwarfs, and little people? You know, the ones that even at 50 are only about waist high on average people? Do you say that they should never be able to reproduce or even have sex for fear they may get pregnant? I say let cultural norms be what they are in those countries and let's focus on fixing our own country before fucking around with laws in other countries.

(12-10-2012 01:51 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote: There are some that I learned about through one of those cop shows out there. They still look 12 even late into there 20's and lose the ability to reproduce before the age of 25. Do you advocate making it illegal for them to have children or even to ever has sex?

How on Earth did you get from child brides to somehow assuming that I advocate banning adults who look young from having sex? This is about sex with 8-9 year old girls being justified by religious traditions. You are way out of line in accusing me of trying to stop consenting adults with youthful looks from having sex.

(12-10-2012 01:51 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote: Then what about midgets, dwarfs, and little people? You know, the ones that even at 50 are only about waist high on average people? Do you say that they should never be able to reproduce or even have sex for fear they may get pregnant?

No one ever mentioned anything about adults being prohibited from having sex. A consenting adult can make a responsible choice about having sex and the consequences that it may have. However, a little girl cannot make those decisions, and having them forced on them is way different from what you describe. You are way out of line with those attacks on me. You completely missed the point of my post and grossly misrepresented what I said.

Stop the itchy blanket of Creationism from spreading to our classrooms. Say no to Iron Age superstitions

(12-10-2012 01:51 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote: There are some that I learned about through one of those cop shows out there. They still look 12 even late into there 20's and lose the ability to reproduce before the age of 25. Do you advocate making it illegal for them to have children or even to ever has sex?

How on Earth did you get from child brides to somehow assuming that I advocate banning adults who look young from having sex? This is about sex with 8-9 year old girls being justified by religious traditions. You are way out of line in accusing me of trying to stop consenting adults with youthful looks from having sex.

(12-10-2012 01:51 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote: Then what about midgets, dwarfs, and little people? You know, the ones that even at 50 are only about waist high on average people? Do you say that they should never be able to reproduce or even have sex for fear they may get pregnant?

No one ever mentioned anything about adults being prohibited from having sex. A consenting adult can make a responsible choice about having sex and the consequences that it may have. However, a little girl cannot make those decisions, and having them forced on them is way different from what you describe. You are way out of line with those attacks on me. You completely missed the point of my post and grossly misrepresented what I said.

I was reffering to the article that you posted. "Adolescent wives are more likely to have obstructed labor because their bodies have not fully developed yet. Statistics show that pregnancy death for child brides is double that of women in the 20s, according to the Pulitzer Center on Crisis Reporting.
One doctor based in the Yemeni capital Sanaa listed some of the medical consequences of forcing girls into sex and childbirth before they are physically mature - ripped vaginal walls and internal ruptures called fistulas which can lead to life-long incontinence.
Girls are often too young to understand the concept of reproduction. The doctor said: 'The nurses start by asking, "Do you know what's happening?" "Do you understand that this is a baby that has been growing inside of you?"'

Some people develope faster than others and some stop developing well before being done. To be in favor of making the youngest legal age in those country be 18, you should also be in favor of rendering those who are not standard for being 18 incapable of having kids. While it is true that supposedly someone who is an adult can make those decisions, how can we insure they make the right one? Sex is addictive because it feels good. If you are underdeveloped and therefore can't safely carry a baby, you might be having sex without the intent to get pregnant just because it feels good. If you doubt that people do it just for the fact that it feels good, I have a load of people here every night of the week at the bar just looking to fuck anything drunk enough to say yes. I question the ability of anyone to really do the right thing. Also like I said, what about those that are over 18 but lack basic intelligence? It is true that for some the parents of those people can retain control over their lives through a court order, but how do you know they won't at some point be taken advantage of and get pregnant? The only way to ensure that won't happen is to make it impossible to get them pregnant. Also, I am happily married to a 27 year old. I am not advocating being married to kids or even having sex with them. I just have a huge problem with 18 being the age where you are supposedly now magically an adult. Some are before that magic number and some will never truly be either physically or mentally an adult even way beyond turning 18.

If you have a problem with 18 being the legal age because some may be mature enough to have sex before age 18, take that with the cops or legislators. I neither make the rules nor enforce them. As for adults, I agree that sometimes adults make stupid decisions, but that's life. And yes, there are laws about the ability of someone mentally incapacitated being able/not able to consent to sex. Check your local laws and make sure you follow them.

I would appreciate it if we could terminate this discussion. I do not want the thread to be filled with conversation that has nothing to do with the issue of child brides being forced to marry adults.

Stop the itchy blanket of Creationism from spreading to our classrooms. Say no to Iron Age superstitions

(12-10-2012 02:37 AM)Ozzie Wrote: If you have a problem with 18 being the legal age because some may be mature enough to have sex before age 18, take that with the cops or legislators. I neither make the rules nor enforce them. I would appreciate it if we could terminate this discussion. I do not want the thread to be filled with conversation that has nothing to do with the issue of child brides being forced to marry adults.

I just want to ask one more question, which is where I was initially going with this. What gives you the athority to legislate what is or is not allowed in countries other than your own?

(12-10-2012 02:41 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote: I just want to ask one more question, which is where I was initially going with this. What gives you the athority to legislate what is or is not allowed in countries other than your own?

I'm not legislating anything, simply raising awareness of the situation. And those of us who are outraged can advocate to bring awareness of this situation and promote change. At the end of the day the local authorities in those countries are the ones who have the power to change this, but there is nothing to prevent outsiders from disagreeing with their practices and taking steps to express our displeasure, such as choosing not to vacation or invest in these countries because we do not want our hard earned money to fund these practices.

Stop the itchy blanket of Creationism from spreading to our classrooms. Say no to Iron Age superstitions

(12-10-2012 02:41 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote: I just want to ask one more question, which is where I was initially going with this. What gives you the athority to legislate what is or is not allowed in countries other than your own?

I'm not legislating anything, simply raising awareness of the situation. And those of us who are outraged can advocate to bring awareness of this situation and promote change. At the end of the day the local authorities in those countries are the ones who have the power to change this, but there is nothing to prevent outsiders from disagreeing with their practices and taking steps to express our displeasure, such as choosing not to vacation or invest in these countries because we do not want our hard earned money to fund these practices.

The is a flaw in that logic though. There are only so many fights and hotel rooms. So, let's say you get everyone who agrees with you to boycott going to those countries for vacations. Do you know what those jets going there will be instead filled with? It will be a mix of business men that are going there to conduct legit business and of course the other side of the equation men going there to have sex with kids. Either you go there and make it worth while to build maybe a disney world or other attractions there or they build more child brothels to attract more money. Their athorities will of course allow this practice, because the economy needs to keep going.