A smarter person would have inspected the campaign finance reports before they called her probable to win. I guess I got caught up focusing on elections in my own municipality instead of studying Glendale. Turns out that Clark had only $17k while her opponent's chest was $43k.

First off all, I think Jamison/Glendale AMF negotiation is one thing completely different from what NHL want/can do with the Coyotes.

We can all speculate if Jamison will buy the team or not, if Glendale will give 0, 5 or $15M a year.

Honestly, taking your scenario (Dec 1st season start ?) it's too late to move the team and Jamison definitely cannot close the AMF nego in 3 weeks.

That being said, I think the NHL will put the Coyotes on a strict minimum spendings, no ads, cheaper hotels while traveling, less personnel and so on for the season (shorter one so could be accepted easier).

They could if they decide to sell the team to someone who wants to move it, they could tell Jamison to give up and negotiate with lets say PKP to buy the Coyotes now, play one last season in Arizona (once again, a 60ish games season, so less expenses and all) as a condition of selling him the team. Yes an owner in Quebec, or Seattle or Toronto might not want loosing 40-50M for the season, but it's either buy the Coyotes for $170M + $50M Relofee + $50M 2012-13 expenses or you won't get a team ever, not even an expansion one.

That year gives time to other city to get ready and 2013-14 opens up in a new city.

So to resume, I think NHL won't have choice but to accept that Glendale won't give them a single penny anymore, and they can either stay in Az at their own expense or sell/move elsewhere, but as I said, I doubt any city, even Quebec city could and would take an NHL team with 3 weeks notice.

Three weeks notice will be more of a stretch but then since the NHL will have to come up with a new schedule after a CBA get signed that give them some leway. If an emergency relocation happen just after the CBA issue get resolved I could see them send the Nordiques on a 2 weeks road trip to start the season. You can bet that Quebecor got a plug and play plan ready to roll in case that happen. How hard could that be you just keep the manegarial staff for at least a season. Change the uniform to the new design and let billetech handles the tickets sales. I don't expect it will happen but it won't be the end of the world if it does.

Three weeks notice will be more of a stretch but then since the NHL will have to come up with a new schedule after a CBA get signed that give them some leway. If an emergency relocation happen just after the CBA issue get resolved I could see them send the Nordiques on a 2 weeks road trip to start the season. You can bet that Quebecor got a plug and play plan ready to roll in case that happen. How hard could that be you just keep the manegarial staff for at least a season. Change the uniform to the new design and let billetech handles the tickets sales. I don't expect it will happen but it won't be the end of the world if it does.

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't PKP expect to lose money in the years that the team plays in Pepsi Colisee? If thats the case would a 55 game season in Glendale be all that bad. Plus if they are in Glendale knowing they will be in QC in a year they can probably mitigate some of the losses by broadcasting games in Quebec

A smarter person would have inspected the campaign finance reports before they called her probable to win. I guess I got caught up focusing on elections in my own municipality instead of studying Glendale. Turns out that Clark had only $17k while her opponent's chest was $43k.

Goldwater v Glendale on Friday. Quite an interesting week for COG.

It's hard to know how much more stomach the COG has for all of this.

Ever since the NHL and Beasley convinced them to back the NHL's bid in bankruptcy court with the promise of magical solutions to the Coyotes financial problems, they have been bludgeoned financially, legally and politically. Meanwhile, you have Bettman smugly claiming that they support the Coyotes in Glendale and string of ownership hopefuls holding out their hands and blowing smoke. Jamison's special characteristic in this carnival is his penchant for mystery and silence, to the point of refusing to even communicate with Glendale officials. It's a cautionary tale for municipalities and NHL fan bases.

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't PKP expect to lose money in the years that the team plays in Pepsi Colisee? If thats the case would a 55 game season in Glendale be all that bad. Plus if they are in Glendale knowing they will be in QC in a year they can probably mitigate some of the losses by broadcasting games in Quebec

Ever since the NHL and Beasley convinced them to back the NHL's bid in bankruptcy court with the promise of magical solutions to the Coyotes financial problems, they have been bludgeoned financially, legally and politically. Meanwhile, you have Bettman smugly claiming that they support the Coyotes in Glendale and string of ownership hopefuls holding out their hands and blowing smoke. Jamison's special characteristic in this carnival is his penchant for mystery and silence, to the point of refusing to even communicate with Glendale officials. It's a cautionary tale for municipalities and NHL fan bases.

I would hope to see books written, films made, and courses taught in universities on just how not to do things. Should be required training for all people with political aspirations.

Best case scenario is that they vote next week. Last vote was on a Friday, so we'll say 11/16/12 for the new vote. Referendum effort then has 30 days to collect signatures after that date. Signatures due 12/14/12. If the effort fails, they could pull this off. If the matter is referred to voters, they are doomed.

Ever since the NHL and Beasley convinced them to back the NHL's bid in bankruptcy court with the promise of magical solutions to the Coyotes financial problems, they have been bludgeoned financially, legally and politically. Meanwhile, you have Bettman smugly claiming that they support the Coyotes in Glendale and string of ownership hopefuls holding out their hands and blowing smoke. Jamison's special characteristic in this carnival is his penchant for mystery and silence, to the point of refusing to even communicate with Glendale officials. It's a cautionary tale for municipalities and NHL fan bases.

It would be unconscionable, unaccountable, and simply unfair to Glendale residents, if a lame-duck council pushes through a vote on this deal which will cripple their budget for a generation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rt

Best case scenario is that they vote next week. Last vote was on a Friday, so we'll say 11/16/12 for the new vote. Referendum effort then has 30 days to collect signatures after that date. Signatures due 12/14/12. If the effort fails, they could pull this off. If the matter is referred to voters, they are doomed.

Best case scenario is that they vote next week. Last vote was on a Friday, so we'll say 11/16/12 for the new vote. Referendum effort then has 30 days to collect signatures after that date. Signatures due 12/14/12. If the effort fails, they could pull this off. If the matter is referred to voters, they are doomed.

Right?

It's not my understanding that people voted "NO" to repealing the tax increase so that revenue could be handed over to Mr. Jamison.

Those that saw their way through the city clerk's creative wording; anyways.

They voted "No" so as to fund firemen, policemen, libraries and sundry public services.

Firemen and police unions didn't lobby so that revenue from tax increases could be handed over to the Yotes.

It would be unconscionable, unaccountable, and simply unfair to Glendale residents, if a lame-duck council pushes through a vote on this deal which will cripple their budget for a generation.

It would create a remarkable political spectacle for them to push the Jamison lease through in the current circumstances before the new mayor and council take their seats. I expect that it would set off a series of events that would through up a variety of potential roadblocks, thereby frustrating attempts to keep the Coyotes in Glendale.

I think that the only realistic option is for Jamison and the NHL to come forward with a much more reasonable options for a lease deal the COG. If they fail to do that, I think that a local sale is pretty improbable.

It's not my understanding that people voted "NO" to repealing the tax increase so that revenue could be handed over to Mr. Jamison.

Those that saw their way through the city clerk's creative wording; anyways.

They voted "No" so as to fund firemen, policemen, libraries and sundry public services.

Firemen and police unions didn't lobby so that revenue from tax increases could be handed over to the Yotes.

This is a fine and dandy, but as I said in a previous post, are there any controls in place to make sure they don't? This is a city that has put a lot of effort into trying numerous ways to get the potential owner of the Coyotes the money they are asking for via questionable methods.

There was absolutely no mention of the Coyotes in the proprosition that was being voted on, so there should be no money going towards the Coyotes.

And although the newly elected officials had nothing to do with what happened in the past,
It would be nice if something was put in place to audit the funds that are brought in via the tax increase to make sure this money is in fact going towards what the voters want it to go towards, and not the AMF.

It would create a remarkable political spectacle for them to push the Jamison lease through in the current circumstances before the new mayor and council take their seats. I expect that it would set off a series of events that would through up a variety of potential roadblocks, thereby frustrating attempts to keep the Coyotes in Glendale.

I think that the only realistic option is for Jamison and the NHL to come forward with a much more reasonable options for a lease deal the COG. If they fail to do that, I think that a local sale is pretty improbable.

I agree. If they tried try to do that, the people will speak up and say "wait, we voted to pay the firemen and the police, not millionaires". I would think it GWI ample ammunition in itself as a way of showing a "bait and switch" to the electorate. I could see the new council trying to push an annullment of the agreement as a sign of bad faith by the lame duck council.

Well the Mayor of Montreal just resigned for a corruption scandal, Quebec's entire construction industry is run by the mafia while linked to the Province, and the current Canadian Federal government is the furthest thing from transparent.

In Winnipeg, our Mayor concluded a land deal for a house in Phoenix (you can't make this up) for $1, which was brokered by the former CEO of the City (public servant). He also owns the local baseball team in a 'blind trust' and pays no tax on a parking lot near the Forks downtown --- some of the most expensive property in the City.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rt

I dont know what politicians are like in Canada, but here in the States they are liars and thieves.

This is a fine and dandy, but as I said in a previous post, are there any controls in place to make sure they don't? This is a city that has put a lot of effort into trying numerous ways to get the potential owner of the Coyotes the money they are asking for via questionable methods.

There was absolutely no mention of the Coyotes in the proprosition that was being voted on, so there should be no money going towards the Coyotes.

And although the newly elected officials had nothing to do with what happened in the past,
It would be nice if something was put in place to audit the funds that are brought in via the tax increase to make sure this money is in fact going towards what the voters want it to go towards, and not the AMF.

In the public discussion leading to the approval of the original Jamison lease, Glendale publicly claimed that retaining the Coyotes with the AMF negotiated with Jamison in June would be cost-saving, compared to losing the Coyotes and having to continue to pay for the Jobing.com management. Since then, they have amended that version (without explaining why), and now indicate that it will cost several million more per year to keep the Coyotes with the Jamison lease. Based on their most recent financial scenarios, a substantial portion of the revenue from the sales tax increase will indeed go into supporting a subsidy to Jamison via the AMF. I don't think that's a secret.

In the public discussion leading to the approval of the original Jamison lease, Glendale publicly claimed that retaining the Coyotes with the AMF negotiated with Jamison in June would be cost-saving, compared to losing the Coyotes and having to continue to pay for the Jobing.com management. Since then, they have amended that version (without explaining why), and now indicate that it will cost several million more per year to keep the Coyotes with the Jamison lease. Based on their most recent financial scenarios, a substantial portion of the revenue from the sales tax increase will indeed go into supporting a subsidy to Jamison via the AMF. I don't think that's a secret.

I don't think its a secret either... at least not for anyone on HFB

But I'm sure there are some people that specifically voted for the tax increase after having read the proprosition and saw no mention of the hockey team. I read the proprosition and what everyone was saying ( ie: fire fighters etc. ) and based on what I read.... I would have voted in favour of the tax increase no problem. It sounded good with all that money going to support infrastructure and keeping services.

It's not my understanding that people voted "NO" to repealing the tax increase so that revenue could be handed over to Mr. Jamison.

Those that saw their way through the city clerk's creative wording; anyways.

They voted "No" so as to fund firemen, policemen, libraries and sundry public services.

Firemen and police unions didn't lobby so that revenue from tax increases could be handed over to the Yotes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbcwpg

This is a fine and dandy, but as I said in a previous post, are there any controls in place to make sure they don't? This is a city that has put a lot of effort into trying numerous ways to get the potential owner of the Coyotes the money they are asking for via questionable methods.

There was absolutely no mention of the Coyotes in the proprosition that was being voted on, so there should be no money going towards the Coyotes.

And although the newly elected officials had nothing to do with what happened in the past,
It would be nice if something was put in place to audit the funds that are brought in via the tax increase to make sure this money is in fact going towards what the voters want it to go towards, and not the AMF.

They voted simply on the repeal of a tax increase, not some sort of appropriation. There are no strings attached to the revenue. They could annually commission $20 million of public art made of manure if they so desired.

... indeed. Not the greatest Batting Average there Councillor. Ya reckon it was her Hispanic Conspiracy Theories or the news on Monday of $6M being improperly transferred out of the trust to wit she was supposed to oversee as Chairperson?