If Lion will run on my 2009 White Macbook. Granted this machine is beat up (I kicked it off a bunk bed) but it still runs fine. I understand that much of the multitouch probably won't work, but I hope Apple does not 'tempt' me to upgrade before this machine dies. Some of the features in Lion (like Autosave) are ones I would REALLY enjoy--losing work because I forgot to save is. not. fun.

Summer '09 Macbook 6 GB RAM, SSD; iPhone 3GS, aTV v.2

Jesus told her, I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. Anyone who lives in me and [trusts]...

I'm not seeing anything good about Lion. A new file vault, what's wrong with the old one? Oh , that is right, it was never secure, but they sold it to you, and now they want to resell it again. The mobileme thing is crap. Back in the days when I had OS 9, iTools came with it, sort of like mac.com. Apple giveth and Apple taketh away, now they want to sell a free service that was included with OS 9. Let me know when Apple finally brings something new to the table, because all of this regurgitated CRAP is old already. I really see no reason to buy Lion , the same way I saw no reason to buy Snow Leopard. Apple wants my money like Microsoft, but they aren't offering anything really new.

Don't buy it then.

Go over to windows and use their true full screen apps, versions coupled with autosave and the full server OS built into their desktop OS.

Autosave sounds like a nightmare. People don't expect their computer to automatically save what they're doing. And unless I'm guessing wrong, it won't - unless they're using new 10.7 aware applications. ...

Disagree. All the new users who are coming to OS-X because they like their iPhone/iPad are going to come with the assumption that their work will be saved automatically and disappointed when it isn't. Only the older computer users who are already used to it not saving will not expect the new behaviour.

Also, behaviours are quickly learned when they aren't dependant on actions. By that I mean if the user doesn't have to do anything, but is simply presented with the document open to the exact last place they left off, they will simply accept it, and after two or three times, grow to expect it.

I would expect what will really happen is the expectations of the average users will force developers to step up their game and add the features in as fast as they can. Software that isn't updated with new features will be quickly discarded. Software that isn't available through the Mac App store will be quickly obsolete. Something like the PPC apps (discussed above) that haven't been updated for five long years will become an anomaly, if they survive at all.

The whole world of Mac software just moved into overdrive this year IMO and developers that don't step up will be lost in the dustcloud in our collective rear-view mirrors. The idea that you can put out a single gigantic piece of software and only update it once in a blue moon is already gone. It will just take folks a while to realise this has happened.

Imagine a beginner sitting down to a Mac with all those gestures enabled. They're just trying to learn the trackpad and they'll be having things flying left right and centre and not understanding why. They will freak out.

You must know some very stupid people, or have a very low opinion of the average intelligent individual. There aren't that many people on the planet who haven't played with an iOS device or used a track pad before.

AutoSave will be great, but Versions? So totally irritating and annoying in Windows-programs that it only gets people mixed up and makes them loose the version they're actually hoping to rescue. Hope you can choose the one or the other.

However, there are three features my former windows clients are really hoping to see in Lion.

1. SAVE WINDOW POSITION. Everyone of my former windows clients misses the ability to have an application open maximized automatically. (Application opens full screen except the dock is still visible.) A maximized screen focuses the user on the task at hand but allows quick application switching via the dock.

Full screen mode is nice for those with a small screen. However, if you have a large screen, why take an extra step to make the dock visible if have have the screen space available for the dock.

The user should have the option to either have full screen or have the operating system remember the users preferred window size and location.

2. Mouse pointer size my clients with 27 inch iMacs really wish Apple would give the user two additional mouse pointer sizes medium and large. Currently you can scale the mouse pointer size but the pointer becomes jagged very quickly.

3. Magic Mouse control None of my iMac clients like the speed of the Magic Mouse. The slow movements are too slow and the fast movements are too fast. Clients like the Magic Mouse under Bootcamp but not in Snow Leopard. Maybe Apple should allow the user to adjust the non accelerated movement speed and separately adjust the acceleration factor.

Overall I think my clients will be fairly pleased with what Apple will introduce with 10.7.

Full-disk encryption - quite a few people have wanted that one. I am looking forward to seeing the new Mail app - the iPad mail app is very nice.

The current mail app, which I like very much in terms of its functionality, is a little long in the tooth in terms of the UI. But, I hope making it more iPad like actually makes it a better Mac app, and not just more iPad like. Not that there's anything fundamentally wrong with the iPad mail app, just that it's designed for a tablet/touch UI.

The current mail app, which I like very much in terms of its functionality, is a little long in the tooth in terms of the UI. But, I hope making it more iPad like actually makes it a better Mac app, and not just more iPad like. Not that there's anything fundamentally wrong with the iPad mail app, just that it's designed for a tablet/touch UI.

I really dislike one iPad Mail feature. When I edit > select > delete on a message, the program thinks I should look at the message before I delete it. I get a lot of junk that isn't spam, since that gets filtered, just junky newsletters and notifications, which I know I don't need to look at. Each message has to pop onto the display as I prepare to delete it. So annoying. It works differently on the iPhone which is how it should work on the iPad IMO.

I really dislike one iPad Mail feature. When I edit > select > delete on a message, the program thinks I should look at the message before I delete it. I get a lot of junk that isn't spam, since that gets filtered, just junky newsletters and notifications, which I know I don't need to look at. Each message has to pop onto the display as I prepare to delete it. So annoying. It works differently on the iPhone which is how it should work on the iPad IMO.

It's different on the iPhone because there isn't room to show the message list and the messages. I can see the reasoning behind showing the message you've selected to delete, but I find it a little annoying too. Better junk handling would be an improvement, though, although, I'm sure the Mac version would retain that. I just wish the iOS versions supported creation of folders and rules, also not an issue for the Mac version.

My main fear is that what works well on a tablet, and may even work well on a MBA or MBP, will just seem clunky on a 27" monitor.

Autosave sounds like a nightmare. People don't expect their computer to automatically save what they're doing. And unless I'm guessing wrong, it won't - unless they're using new 10.7 aware applications. More user confusion ahead.

I expect it as do most people I know (especially productive ones - say not nerds -).
It's a nightmare to lose the last updates of an iMovie project or mail etc.
Mac OS X is rock solid, but applications can (and do) crash.
So auto save is an absolute necessity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkVader

versions? Hard to believe that it's taken until 2011 to finally get around to pulling this feature out of 1980s VMS, isn't it? Yeah, that's right, multiple document versions were automatically maintained by an operating system back in the '80s. It was simple enough, the OS just appended a semi-colon and a version number to the filename. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see it happen, but don't imagine for a moment that it's actually an innovation.

Your right, its not new. But did you use VMS?
I can tell you it's absolutely unusable, like thinking upside down. Unix command-line is a blessing in comparison.

It's different on the iPhone because there isn't room to show the message list and the messages. I can see the reasoning behind showing the message you've selected to delete, but I find it a little annoying too.

I seems as if, after they invented the pretty cool layered message view feature, the programmers were so enamored with it that they could not be persuaded to remove that part of the view controller when it went into edit mode.

I'm not seeing anything good about Lion. A new file vault, what's wrong with the old one? Oh , that is right, it was never secure, but they sold it to you, and now they want to resell it again. The mobileme thing is crap. Back in the days when I had OS 9, iTools came with it, sort of like mac.com. Apple giveth and Apple taketh away, now they want to sell a free service that was included with OS 9. Let me know when Apple finally brings something new to the table, because all of this regurgitated CRAP is old already. I really see no reason to buy Lion , the same way I saw no reason to buy Snow Leopard. Apple wants my money like Microsoft, but they aren't offering anything really new.

Yes, they wanted a whole $29 for Snow Leopard. I'm sure this would have broken your bank. A revised OS for the price of a large pizza and soda sounds like an incredible deal to me. I'm sure Lion will go for a bit more, but still an incredibly good value IMO. It seems to me that the UI functional improvements alone are worth far more than $29.

Can anyone confirm the real deal-killer on this "upgrade" - the rumor that Rosetta is going to be removed? Because it's WAY too soon to stop PowerPC software from running.

Too soon to shitcan Rosetta? Really?

Here in 2011 I can say that I have no apps installed that require Rosetta. The vast majority of developers have upgraded their software to Intel (or, at least, universal) so Rosetta is, and damn well should be, a non argument.

You must know some very stupid people, or have a very low opinion of the average intelligent individual. There aren't that many people on the planet who haven't played with an iOS device or used a track pad before.

I seems as if, after they invented the pretty cool layered message view feature, the programmers were so enamored with it that they could not be persuaded to remove that part of the view controller when it went into edit mode.

In their defense, it's not an entirely unreasonable decision that you should show people what it is that they are about to delete, but, it might be better if this were optional. One thing that is annoying about the implementation, though, is that after you delete messages, it may still be displaying the last displayed but deleted message instead of, perhaps, an empty view, which would make more sense, in my opinion. The deleted message stays there until you select another message, but it's no longer in the message list, which is certainly confusing.

Imagine a beginner sitting down to a Mac with all those gestures enabled. They're just trying to learn the trackpad and they'll be having things flying left right and centre and not understanding why. They will freak out.

No, they will have been pre-trained on the gestures from the age of two on the family/friends/neighbors iPad, iPhone or iTouch.

The first thing I do when I'm setting up a new Mac for a user is disable most of the multi-touch crap. Every time I forget, somebody calls me in a panic, "Why did everything on my desktop just get really small?!???!!???"

The one-button mouse was one of Apple's best innovations. It's a shame they've forgotten that lesson.

I am very happy about all the gestures and in fact downloaded a program that allows me to further customize the gestures and keyboard shortcuts. I LOVE LOVE LOVE them. I can do with a simple gesture something that would take a bit more time and effort. This is one of the main reasons why I love using the Mac so much.

My very employment has depended on Apple and Microsoft operating systems lending themselves well to tweaks and optimizations for creative professionals to do their work efficiently. My clients need expensive, sophisticated software/hardware solutions running at speeds that exhaust the resources of the hardware. The features described here will only further drag us into a "dark period" that is the beginning of the end of the video post-production industry as we know it. I think Snow Leopard is a great OS for Final cut Studio 3, and, eventually, the many varieties of CS5. Most of my clients use tablets. I don't sell the moronic magic mouse, and the one client's setup where I "accidentally" did, yielded a guy demanding it go away because the lag from 8ft away made it unusable. (There was a $340 USB 2.0 extender already in place from the existing setup being upgraded).

Apple needs to realize that killing the professional products (Xserve, Snow Leopard's "spirit," software sales conducted by resellers, the Mighty Mouse), they are executing an industry that kept them alive for the decade it took for them to realize that the iPod thingy generated more revenue than those computer thingies.

They are, with "Lion," as one of you said, trying to make the iPhone/iPad converts more comfortable once they arrive. I get it. My 3.5yr-old daughter is a master at both the iOS on my iPad (company issue) and the Android OS on my phone (NOT company issue). For her, and adults at or below her level of comprehension, I say "well done" to the industry. These operating systems are great as gaming platforms and appliances for Google/Yahoo/Apple services like maps and email. They deserve a place in the industry, but should be on the other side if a wide rift - far apart from desktop computers.

iPhone users who are new to Apple aren't buying the $7k Mac Pros that I am selling. They aren't - or shouldn't be - video editors and producers. It's all well and good that the people that, in fact, are still making tens of thousands of dollars at a time producing and editing video (not YouTube crap, and necessarily Hollywood movies in this context), ALSO have tablet devices and smartphones. They aren't asking Apple or Google or Microsoft to now modify their editing platforms to work more like their toys. Why would they?

As for Windows 7 - my company laptop is a PC, and I ADORE Windows 7 compared to any Microsoft predecessor. With that said, it has been nothing short of a pain in the ass to implement in place of WinXP for my clients. Great for productivity boxes, but ironically unproductive for professionals.

Apple has become the evil, self-righteous establishment they once considered their adversary. Way to not see the forest through the trees.

My very employment has depended on Apple and Microsoft operating systems lending themselves well to tweaks and optimizations for creative professionals to do their work efficiently. My clients need expensive, sophisticated software/hardware solutions running at speeds that exhaust the resources of the hardware. The features described here will only further drag us into a "dark period" that is the beginning of the end of the video post-production industry as we know it. I think Snow Leopard is a great OS for Final cut Studio 3, and, eventually, the many varieties of CS5. Most of my clients use tablets. I don't sell the moronic magic mouse, and the one client's setup where I "accidentally" did, yielded a guy demanding it go away because the lag from 8ft away made it unusable. (There was a $340 USB 2.0 extender already in place from the existing setup being upgraded).

Apple needs to realize that killing the professional products (Xserve, Snow Leopard's "spirit," software sales conducted by resellers, the Mighty Mouse), they are executing an industry that kept them alive for the decade it took for them to realize that the iPod thingy generated more revenue than those computer thingies.

They are, with "Lion," as one of you said, trying to make the iPhone/iPad converts more comfortable once they arrive. I get it. My 3.5yr-old daughter is a master at both the iOS on my iPad (company issue) and the Android OS on my phone (NOT company issue). For her, and adults at or below her level of comprehension, I say "well done" to the industry. These operating systems are great as gaming platforms and appliances for Google/Yahoo/Apple services like maps and email. They deserve a place in the industry, but should be on the other side if a wide rift - far apart from desktop computers.

iPhone users who are new to Apple aren't buying the $7k Mac Pros that I am selling. They aren't - or shouldn't be - video editors and producers. It's all well and good that the people that, in fact, are still making tens of thousands of dollars at a time producing and editing video (not YouTube crap, and necessarily Hollywood movies in this context), ALSO have tablet devices and smartphones. They aren't asking Apple or Google or Microsoft to now modify their editing platforms to work more like their toys. Why would they?

As for Windows 7 - my company laptop is a PC, and I ADORE Windows 7 compared to any Microsoft predecessor. With that said, it has been nothing short of a pain in the ass to implement in place of WinXP for my clients. Great for productivity boxes, but ironically unproductive for professionals.

Apple has become the evil, self-righteous establishment they once considered their adversary. Way to not see the forest through the trees.

There is absolutely nothing in your post, or in Apple's actions, to justify your conclusion. Sounds like you just wanted to say that and threw in a bunch of words on various topics so that it might seem like you had made an actual argument.

I'm concerned how many of these new features contain the word 'swipe'. How do you swipe with the mouse? (sorry, the new trackpads are just annoying and I won't be getting one...)

Personally, I love the magic Trackpad and can't see how I would ever use a mouse with my iMac again. But those who don't like or don't have a Magic Trackpad can still do many of the multi-touch gestures on the Magic Mouse which comes standard with all new iMacs.

In their defense, it's not an entirely unreasonable decision that you should show people what it is that they are about to delete, but, it might be better if this were optional. One thing that is annoying about the implementation, though, is that after you delete messages, it may still be displaying the last displayed but deleted message instead of, perhaps, an empty view, which would make more sense, in my opinion. The deleted message stays there until you select another message, but it's no longer in the message list, which is certainly confusing.

I don't have my iPad with me at the moment, but I believe It is optional already with a trash icon, like iPhone. So if they removed the layering feature in the edit mode, it would theoretically still be possible to delete the message from the view mode if one was inclined to view the message prior to deleting it.

I don't disagree with you. I've been noticing Apple's decline away from the professional level, catering more towards the consumer. I think its made clear by this whole "Back to the Mac" thing of bringing iOS to the Mac, along with the focus on the iDevices (look at the top bar of Apple's web page and compare iDevices to Computer tabs. iDevices could have been all reduced to one tab easily.)

I say, let Apple go in this direction. It appears to be best for shareholders, best for Apple as a company, best for the Jobs, best for their overall bottom line. How many companies out there can claim they have such a large amount in savings and rising profits in an economy like this? They are making money hand over fist my friend, and who wouldn't blame them for riding the current.

I don't really like Apple, and I really don't like Microsoft either. I love the idea of Linux, and have various computers running some flavor. However, for professionals, especially in the AV world (of which I am a part in my current job), it can't cut the mustard. Not enough decent programs, and not enough funding or resources to pull it off.

(In the AV world)
Apple - Controlling, Consumer Based, Simple, Stable
Microsoft - Controlling, Trying to do Too Much, Standard in Workplaces, Bloated
Linux - Confusing for Consumers, Not enough large funded projects for AV, Build it to do what ever you want.

Aka: No one wins. Its so disheartening and frustrating. I rely on all three OSs just to get my job done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACK

My very employment has depended on Apple and Microsoft operating systems lending themselves well to tweaks and optimizations for creative professionals to do their work efficiently. My clients need expensive, sophisticated software/hardware solutions running at speeds that exhaust the resources of the hardware. The features described here will only further drag us into a "dark period" that is the beginning of the end of the video post-production industry as we know it. I think Snow Leopard is a great OS for Final cut Studio 3, and, eventually, the many varieties of CS5. Most of my clients use tablets. I don't sell the moronic magic mouse, and the one client's setup where I "accidentally" did, yielded a guy demanding it go away because the lag from 8ft away made it unusable. (There was a $340 USB 2.0 extender already in place from the existing setup being upgraded).

Apple needs to realize that killing the professional products (Xserve, Snow Leopard's "spirit," software sales conducted by resellers, the Mighty Mouse), they are executing an industry that kept them alive for the decade it took for them to realize that the iPod thingy generated more revenue than those computer thingies.

They are, with "Lion," as one of you said, trying to make the iPhone/iPad converts more comfortable once they arrive. I get it. My 3.5yr-old daughter is a master at both the iOS on my iPad (company issue) and the Android OS on my phone (NOT company issue). For her, and adults at or below her level of comprehension, I say "well done" to the industry. These operating systems are great as gaming platforms and appliances for Google/Yahoo/Apple services like maps and email. They deserve a place in the industry, but should be on the other side if a wide rift - far apart from desktop computers.

iPhone users who are new to Apple aren't buying the $7k Mac Pros that I am selling. They aren't - or shouldn't be - video editors and producers. It's all well and good that the people that, in fact, are still making tens of thousands of dollars at a time producing and editing video (not YouTube crap, and necessarily Hollywood movies in this context), ALSO have tablet devices and smartphones. They aren't asking Apple or Google or Microsoft to now modify their editing platforms to work more like their toys. Why would they?

As for Windows 7 - my company laptop is a PC, and I ADORE Windows 7 compared to any Microsoft predecessor. With that said, it has been nothing short of a pain in the ass to implement in place of WinXP for my clients. Great for productivity boxes, but ironically unproductive for professionals.

Apple has become the evil, self-righteous establishment they once considered their adversary. Way to not see the forest through the trees.

I think perhaps that a lot of less able users than you and I *do* expect their computers to start where they left off. I certainly know of plenty of users I have the need to "support" who just don't get saving, or even files and directories in a lot of cases. A bit of a switch in our expectations will probably harder for an experienced user to accept than the less able.

As for versions, I totally get you, but let's not think for one second that your Mum would have ever bought and used a VME system for email Bringing what was once an enterprise feature (no matter how old) to everyone including your mum has to be a good thing so long as it's easy to use, and that's they key, not if it can be done, but if it can be done in a way that is understood and usable to your mum...

Exactly! Thank you, I can't wait to get these feature in Lion onto my dad's iMac. He is 86 and God bless him does pretty well on an iMac, but most these features in this upgrade will help. Do people understand why people have Macs in the first place?

Aqua defines the look and feel that users come to expect from Mac OS X. Lion takes this experience and brings it to a new level with popovers, overlay scrollbars, and powerful Multi-Touch gestures and animations.
Popovers

AppKit framework now includes popovers, a new unit of content that can be positioned relative to other content on the screen. Popovers automatically move whenever the positioning view moves. You can also design popovers that can be detached, allowing them to become a separate window.
Overlay Scrollbars

Mac OS X Lion introduces overlay scrollbars similar to those in iOS. These scrollbars appear as an overlay on top of the window's content while the user is scrolling and remain visible briefly to allow scrollbar dragging.
Multi-Touch Gestures and Animations

The fluid, responsive animations that create the magical user experience on iPad and iPhone are available in Mac OS X Lion. Design your apps to use Multi-Touch gestures and animations and redefine the interaction users have with your apps

This is disturbing. Popovers is a deal-killer, and animations in apps? If you can't turn all this stuff off, then I'm depressed. Who wants apps to look and act like webpages, with blinking lights, popovers, etc.?

I don't have my iPad with me at the moment, but I believe It is optional already with a trash icon, like iPhone. So if they removed the layering feature in the edit mode, it would theoretically still be possible to delete the message from the view mode if one was inclined to view the message prior to deleting it.

I'll believe this version is easier to setup line of bull regarding OS X Server every time they release a new OS.

I truly hope they have a server version a user who is a little above average can install and make use of. TIme machine backups, shared wiki's, shared calendar and address book, software updates should be a piece of cake to work with and offer "I want in" or "I want out of" access to the server benefits without a lot of work.

I don't disagree with you. I've been noticing Apple's decline away from the professional level, catering more towards the consumer. I think its made clear by this whole "Back to the Mac" thing of bringing iOS to the Mac, along with the focus on the iDevices (look at the top bar of Apple's web page and compare iDevices to Computer tabs. iDevices could have been all reduced to one tab easily.)

I say, let Apple go in this direction. It appears to be best for shareholders, best for Apple as a company, best for the Jobs, best for their overall bottom line. How many companies out there can claim they have such a large amount in savings and rising profits in an economy like this? They are making money hand over fist my friend, and who wouldn't blame them for riding the current.

I don't really like Apple, and I really don't like Microsoft either. I love the idea of Linux, and have various computers running some flavor. However, for professionals, especially in the AV world (of which I am a part in my current job), it can't cut the mustard. Not enough decent programs, and not enough funding or resources to pull it off.

(In the AV world)
Apple - Controlling, Consumer Based, Simple, Stable
Microsoft - Controlling, Trying to do Too Much, Standard in Workplaces, Bloated
Linux - Confusing for Consumers, Not enough large funded projects for AV, Build it to do what ever you want.

Aka: No one wins. Its so disheartening and frustrating. I rely on all three OSs just to get my job done.

Interestingly, I was expecting said "earful" from you, but you only reiterated my point, and I agree with everything you said. I guess I apologize to the guy who didn't think I had anything to say. I assumed these points were obvious.