Gundam 00 Second Season – 21

In the aftermath of the battle and after Lockon beat him up, Setsuna gets asked by Saji if there was no other way. Setsuna asserts that there wasn’t and that Anew wasn’t herself at that time, and when Saji questions how Setsuna can be sure, Setsuna doesn’t know. The thing he is confident about is that Lyle would have died if he hadn’t shot Anew, and he suspects that it will be the same for Louise – he can sense that she’s being confused by something. That last part prompts Saji to note that something about Setsuna has been strange recently, and he becomes alarmed when he notices a certain glow in Setsuna’s eyes. On the bridge, Feldt reports that an urgent coded message had arrived directing them to the colony Eclipse at Lagrange 5. What they don’t realize is that it’s Hong Long and Wang Liu Mei who are at that place right now, and the latter is hurt. Despite this, both Setsuna and Ian think that they should go, with Ian pointing out that Linda and the others of Celestial Being are there, and he thinks they might have new equipment ready.

Elsewhere on the ship, Allelujah asks Soma to be at the helm of the Ptolemaios while Lasse is out of action. Soma knows that this is to keep her off the battlefield, so Allelujah admits the promise to Sergei, but she still refuses to listen. This leads to Allelujah suggesting that something might happen to her if she continues to fight, however he pauses when he sees that she’s frustrated and tearing up. By now, Setsuna and Saji are ready to head to Lagrange 5 on the 00 Raiser since the Ptolemaios will be taking a detour first. Before leaving, Setsuna runs into Lyle who apologizes. Lyle admits that he got too emotional and declares that he’ll fight, and Setsuna accepts this. Internally, Lyle is resolved to crush the Innovators by his own will, but as Setsuna is moving down the hall, Lyle takes out a gun and points it at Setsuna’s back. After struggling with his conscience though, Lyle finds himself unable to pull the trigger.

Setsuna and Saji thus leave for Lagrange 5 without incident, and the Ptolemaios’ subsequent course change is noticed by the A-LAWS fleet. Arthur orders them to continue pursuing with the intent on beating Celestial Being with overwhelming force. Also still with the A-LAWS fleet are Hiling and Revive, and Hiling is bothered by how even Anew was killed. Revive is troubled by how easily they and Louise were defeated by the 00 Gundam in the previous battle, and the way the Gundam fought makes him think that its pilot is starting to undergo innovation. In short, Revive wonders if Setsuna will become mankind’s first Innovator. Louise meanwhile is desperately taking more pills, and she snaps at Andrei when he comes to check on her. They are interrupted by Mr. Bushido who reveals that he and Louise will be going on a mission. Andrei insists on coming along, but Mr. Bushido doesn’t think Andrei will be able to keep up.

Down on Earth, Shirin finds Klaus injured but still alive, and he explains the plan to head into space with the remnants of the coup d’état faction. Refusing to be pessimistic, Klaus reveals how Marina and the children’s song is spreading across the world, and he thinks that it’s because people want peace. He feels that they might have lost sight of how people can understand each other, and Shirin recalls how Marina has wanted that. Back at Lagrange 5, Hong Long worries if Celestial Being is coming, and Wang Liu Mei thinks that if they don’t, then the world will belong to Ribbons and the Innovators. When Hong Long then wonders when Nena joined the Innovator’s side, Wang Liu Mei tells him to think for himself. She blames him being like that for her having to become the head of the Wang family, leading to her own life being twisted, and that’s why she wanted the world to change. She’d give up her status and fortune for a fresh start in life so that she can obtain her future, and she feels that it’s her brother’s responsibility to stick with her until the end.

The two are interrupted by Nena who had overheard everything and has decided that Wang Liu Mei is indeed an idiot. Since she still hates Wang Liu Mei, Nena shoots her, but Hong Long protects his sister by taking the bullet for her. As Nena continues shooting him in the back, he pushes Wang Liu Mei through a nearby door and then tries to stop Nena, but she just shoots him in the head. Instead of pursuing Wang Liu Mei right away though, Nena turns to Regene who’s there with her, and Regene is happy that his plan is moving forward. The 00 Raiser arrives soon after, and Setsuna sets out alone into the colony. He quickly runs into Wang Liu Mei, and she hands him the location of Veda, urging action since the Innovators might move Veda if they find out about this. Setsuna offers to help her escape, but she turns him down because she feels that she can’t go with him. What she doesn’t tell him is that it’s because they’re after different things.

Unfortunately, when Setsuna returns to the 00 Raiser, he finds it being held hostage by Mr. Bushido and the updated Masurao, the Susanoo. Mr. Bushido has removed his mask, causing Setsuna to recognize him as Graham, and what Graham wants is a serious duel between them. Based on everything that Setsuna has done to him, Graham feels that this is past love and hate – it became fate. Setsuna ultimately agrees to the duel, so Graham lets him board the 00 Raiser, and the two get started. While this is going on, Wang Liu Mei tries to escape the colony in a shuttle, but she gets stopped by Nena and the Throne Drei. Since Wang Liu Mei’s role in all this is over, Nena summarily executes her by blowing up the shuttle, and she laughs with glee afterward. Nena feels that this is punishment for Wang Liu Mei treating people like things. For the sake of her own happiness and life, Nena is obeying the Innovators, but much to her surprise, Ribbons starts talking to her through her Haro about punishing her.

Ribbons claims that someone will appear to judge her, which causes Nena to think of Ali Al-Saachez, but the one Ribbons is referring to is Louise. Louise quickly recognizes the Throne Drei as the Gundam that killed her parents, and she starts blowing it up piece by piece. Setsuna realizes that Louise is here, but he’s unable to do much because he has his hands full with Graham and the Susanoo. Even though the Throne Drei is soon reduced to nothing more than a cockpit, Nena refuses to die like this, but what pisses Louise off is that her parents didn’t get to say even that much, and she finishes Nena off. Andrei arrives on the scene afterward, and he can hear Louise addressing her parents, telling them that she’s avenged them. Louise’s laughter however soon changes to screams and despair as she asks for her parents to praise her. The 00 Raiser and the Susanoo meanwhile continue their fight, and Graham relishes the battle that he’s been waiting for. He had lived for this, even if he had been reduced to being a puppet for the Innovators in the process.

Both Graham and Setsuna eventually activate their respective Trans-Am systems, and it leads to Graham awakening in the dream-like world. Setsuna is there as well, and he explains that it’s actually a place where the quantum concentrates. What’s more, Setsuna claims to understand the reason that Aeolia Schenberg created the GN Drives, and he thinks that all the military intervention was in preparation for this. Aeolia Schenberg’s goal was to guide humanity to innovation, and – eyes glowing – Setsuna declares that he has been trying to change.

Preview

Well the death count certainly went up this week with three characters biting the dust (more on this in a moment), yet that managed not to be the most important thing to come out of this episode. Instead, the big plot twist is that Setsuna is becoming an Innovator, and it puts him in a position to perhaps fulfill Aeolia Schenberg’s wish in a good way and fight Ribbons on equal footing. It feels a little weird to me though that, as opposed to just being amazing on the battlefield, Setsuna has literally become god-like – seemingly all knowing, all powerful, and his eyes glow to boot. Such an ascendancy has to come at a cost, and in this case, I suspect that Setsuna either won’t survive the series all or he won’t survive the series with any Innovator abilities. Then again, evolving into an Innovator could be like evolving into a Newtype in UC Gundam, and it might only seem special because Setsuna’s the only human to do it so far.

As for the three characters who died, the only one I felt any sympathy for was Hong Long since he died a fairly noble death and since he wasn’t portrayed as incredibly selfish. I was rather disappointed at Wang Liu Mei’s motivation because after all this, it felt rather petty, and for characters who have been around so long, her and Hong Long’s background was developed pretty poorly. What I did find interesting though was that Ribbons has a hand in everything, including Nena’s Haro, and I’m curious to see what Ribbons does with Regene now. There’s also how Louise went completely crazy after killing Nena and reverted to a child-like state. Saji’s got his work cut out for him, but I still think they’ll end up together safely, especially if Setsuna or the 00 Raiser can help out.

Unfortunately, it’s looking more and more like Marina’s song is going to save the world or at least help bring it together. I’m still not a big fan of her character or the children, and it seems kind of ridiculous to be taking them into space, as shown in the preview. It’s highly unlikely that any of them will die, but I’m hoping that they stay mostly out of the picture until the end. On the other hand, I do rather like Graham’s character, and I think it’d be cool to see him fight alongside Setsuna at some point, though that might be too overpowered. Hopefully they won’t just kill him off. Next week looks to be another big battle, and Graham isn’t looking that great in the preview.

Setsuna is like Ichigo from bleach (I think Hogokyu is acting like GN particles and affected Ichigo along the way) where Setsuna is a human + GN Particles [supposed to kill him) + 00RaiserTransAM converted the GN particles on Setsuna’s body and turn him to Vizard… rather be called Pioneer

Pioneer = Setsuna

Pure Innovator = Ribbons

Semi Innovator Human = Louise and Ali (both their bodies have lose something and Ribbons restored them using the Innovator’s technology granting some of the Innovators power *Louise having strength of a man holding Sergei’s wrist tightly in some episode* but it cost both of them the ability to be controlled by Ribbons himself) *downside they need medicine

Human cell restoration using GN particles = Lasse (have his lifespan shorter), (Louise and Ali, safe due to the special medicine given to them by Ribbons)

Semi Innovator created by Ribbons = Revive, and other fallen innovators

Innovator made by VEDA = Erde and Regene

Super Soldier = Soma and Allellujah

Human that wants to overuse himself = Graham (Similar to Zechs, bomiting blood after using Tall Geese’s speed)

I cant really agree on Graham’s character. I mean, if all he wants is a duel, why can’t he just wait until peace is restored. There’s really more important things in the world (i.e. peace) than a petty wish for a duel.

On the same “human ethics” veign, what I really liked in this episode was the emphasis on Louise’s realization that revenge didn’t bring back her parents. Japanese culture and history has had a lot of “honorable revenge” stuffs, so it was nice to see some actual ethical message that’s way above that.

The urge for revenge was pretty high for Louise… an urge that she thought would bring fulfillment. Instead it brought emptiness, because now she has to face her parents’ death without anyone she can kill and blame for it.

This might be (one of) the core message(s) of the entire series, really. Conflict arises from an endless chain of “wanting revenge”, and the only way to stop that is stop that chain reaction.

“Finally, Louise gets her revenge on Nena for causing her to become what she is now, though it seems she too is earmarked for death. At least that’s one satisfactory vengeance meted out.”

As I said in my last post, I think it’s pretty clear that the message here is “revenge is bad”.

Saji would have a lot of reasons for revenge (think about his sister), but he has instead chosen a different, better path. Unless he goes all mad, wanting revenge on Ali Al Sarchez in the last few eps…

Revenge is a bad thing. And Im really glad they showed that revenge does not bring satisfaction.

Thanks a lot Omni for posting fast again a detailed summy of his weeks episode, very much appreciated.
Also thumps up at *GP* for posting your theory/thoughts on Setsuna’s evolving/changing; I agree completely.

The real me, not the fake person who wrote this twisted thing: “I like the death of Wang, bitched deserved what she get. Louise killing was wtf, but that way was cool!!! In my opinion the series is going in the right direction, and Setsuna becoming Gundam, that is awesome and needs no explanation.” Still think the dead of Wang was very easy, there was something without imagination. I want to see an amazing battle between Louise and Nena, and yes the dead of one of them. What do you need to become an Innovator???, the Trans-am, been shot by Ali, the twin-drive system, gene modification??? Well for the moment we have to wait, but I still want a VERY GOOD explication

Real me as well and hopefully we’re good now. Ahhh the late season Sunrise anime “trainwreck” labelling, right on schedule, but it looks like we’re getting some good discussion set beside it so perhaps we’re not all going to do that whole bit yet again, or at least not until the very end of episode 25. Still amazes me how many people changed their minds about R2 after all was said and done.

Anyway, if anybody is going to do the talking about how Setsuna is becoming an Innovator it will be Ribbons when they meet again. I just can’t see it not coming up, there’s literally no reason or excuse for it not to.

First Post …ok All I got to say why are the gundam series now having more crazy females. There was stella in GSD. Now louise and Nena. Why would you give theses females gundams come on things don”t end well if you get on their bad sides. shin in GSD sees stella is a little off ah she ok and she wipes out a few cites. wang knows nena kills people for fun and laughs about it. Then she kills her and brother. Now louise half the a-laws knows she is off taking pills taking to herself. Andrei sees her at the end of this ep come on this not a good thing. plz no crazy females in gundam series. Crazy girls fun at parties but not in gundams. end of first post thanks

So what exactly was the point of having Nena survive when her brothers were killed in season 1, if they were just going to kill her off now? They literally did nothing with her in season 2 that couldn’t have been done without her presence.

Nena was the catalyst in Wangs death, through her betrayal. Then later she’s also the catalyst that pushes Louise over the edge and into lala mode.

Nena’s character wasn’t developed because she’s used as a plot device in a sense, through her actions that is. A tool if you will, once Ribbons has no other use for her he gets rid of her (like the rest).

Nothing more nothing else. Not every character will get development or play a big role. Nena is like Anew before her, and how Andrei is as well. It’s more their actions and what they do that moves the plot along. Thus Nena was kept around and used in season 2 since she was the one close to Wang.

i just hope Setsuna is a newtype innovator in a good way and also does this mean that Setsuna might be able to locate Ribbons and Ribbons might be able to manipulate him since he is the very thing he is trying to eliminate “you either die a hero or live long enough to see urself become the villian”.

Wang really disappointed me… she was so conniving and she made such a stupid decision…she had few choices:
1. stay on ship and nena kill her
2. go with setsuna, who’s armed and will transport her to CB so nena cant get to her. She could regroup etc.
3. go off alone on a small slow ship and hopes nena doesnt catch her…

@alex
Yeah I bet Hong Long is banging his head into a wall in the afterlife. I mean you die to save this person and she makes a stupid move. She had no other good options than to go with Setsuna.

While Louise has gone into a bad place still think she’ll be saved. She has what Wang and Nena lacked. A love interest with connections to a very powerful Gundam :). Definitely going to be tough though with her fragile mental state and Ribbons having his mind control at the ready.

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If Graham doesn’t join forces with Setsuna/CB….then please….please….kill him off. I could’ve sworn Setsuna was the only one who didn’t hurt any of Graham’s friends and comrades. The only thing I remember Setsuna doing is sort-of defeating him in battle.

I don’t think calling that place a “dream world” fits. And I say this because it also covers the reason why they’re always naked. It’s not some alternate world or mass shared dream, it’s basically a mind link between characters. They showup nude to more or less point out that they’re not physically there.

It’s a mental shared space, probably what the innovators also see when they connect to each others minds. When Saji and Louise do it a 2nd time they also share a common vision (of being in space) so it changed.

the way ribbons connect to others is not the same as setsuna. like every innovators said they use different frequency to “communicate”. setsuna’s thing is more than that if remember sumaragi said “we felt your feelings setsuna” i forgot which episode is that. so in short its not just “to communicate” but to feel each others feelings as you see with saji and louise (thats why louise was crying after that dream state because she felt saji’s feelings is true).

the best way to describe the difference between setsuna and ribbons is:
setsuna = newtype
ribbons = innovator

another good episode as we get towards the end. Im still not sure how exactly they are going to end this, but hopefully they will end it well. Setsuna becoming an innovator was awesome, even if it wasn’t that surprising given the last couple of episodes.

23:56 freeze frame. Seven swords gundam, and for sure there will be a season 3 theres just too much to be resolved not to have a season 3 they still need to go in depth about the Jupiter mission etc, I cant wait to see the 7 swords gundam in action they hinted at it in this episode when Ian mentioned that they may have “new equipement” waiting for them also in the preview you can see the sword with the green outline? yeah that’s the GN particle condensed blade one of the 7 encompassed on the 7 swords gundam holy shit this is going to be good, also there will be 3 seasons each according to Aoelia’s plan

step 1) the armed interventions, and the destruction of celestial being (celestial being was dismatled but not destroyed)
step 2) the unification of humanities will through A laws
step 3) the expansion of humans towards the deep reaches of space and human innovation.

Plus I don’t believe ribbons will die in 4 episodes, meaning he will still be a major player in the 3rd season, also theres still the issue of Veda and the Jupiter mission, theres no way they can wrap it up in 4 episodes, I speculate what will happen is that the issue of love will be vanquished meaning that some and Allelujah plus Saji and Louise will end up together. Notice how there is also a trend of past foes joining the crew? well I have a feeling Louise and Graham will be joining the C being crew before the end. And there is also the rivalry between Mannequin and Sumeragi to hammer out, so for sure there WILL be a season 3 no doubt

Why is everyone asking how come Setsuna’s becoming an innovator. The series has been building up to it ever since he got shot.

Setsuna’s character is stronger than Amuro in the mental sense. He got manipulated with religion to kill his *own parents* He knows what war costs and the depth men can sink to. Comparing them is like asking a filthy man and a clean dressed man how it feels like to be dirty. The clean fella will tell you what he *thinks* being dirty feels like while the dirty man *knows* exactly how it feels like.

They explained it pretty well. So did a lot of people here in this comments section.

Setsuna is becoming an “innovator” because of 00-Raiser and its massive GN particle output. It may or may not have also something to do with the fact that he was shot by a faux-GN gun or whatever. Ribbons commented on this like 2 episodes ago when he was thinking of why 00 was able to sortie when Setsuna shouldn’t even be in a condition to pilot it. Anew, when examining Setsuna after the shot wound, said something was blocking the infection from spreading at a quick rate. Even Regene and Revive both figured out that he was becoming an “innovator” because of 00-Raiser.

I think the mass confusion comes from the fact that everyone thinks that because Setsuna has become an innovator. He can’t be controlled by Ribbons because

A) He’s not connected through Veda or can’t really be hacked
B) When you notice the scene after anew is shot by setsuna, I believe Ribbons is surprised not because she was shot but rather because his connection with her was cut off by 00-Raiser’s dream like world

In that sense, like everyone has said before, Setsuna is more a newtype than an innovator per say but the show just calls everyone who has been changed to be “innovators” as a whole.

“Innovation” might not exactly mean the evolution of the entire human race per se. It might simply be a metaphorical term for a certain kind of philosophical enlightenment that Schenberg wants mankind to achieve. The Innovators are able connect to one another psychically, and this could be symbolize perfect understanding the hallmark of the philosophy of Innovation. When you can see into the innermost reaches of one’s mind, you are able to understand him or her intimately (in theory). This perfect understanding between all humans that what everyone desires is really just peace; this is probably the enlightenment that Schenberg desires, which will put an end to conflict and create peace.

The name “Celestial Being” could not be more apt. Celestial Being will be the overseers who watch over the people of the world in this time of turmoil. They will also be the forerunners of the coming change, an organization which fights for this “enlightened” ideology, though they may not all understand it. They are the ones who will lead humanity to “innovation.”

The term” Innovators” is an interesting term. In definition, it means “Agents of change.” The innovators are meant to be the catalyst that will bring along innovation. They are the ones who are forcing Celestial Being to act, and through the actions of Celestial Being, (And through observing the ruthlessness of the Innovators) humanity will see the light, and change will come.

Setsuna is the first among the Innovated humans, his innovator powers enabling him to fully understand the true meaning of Innovation, and Schenberg’s true goals. Through him perhaps Schenberg hopes that this understanding can be spread to the rest of humanity.

I do not really think that Schenberg intended evolve all humans into Innovators, but rather simply to be of an “Innovated” mind. (Even Ribbons states this clearly, though I don’t think he fully understands why.)
Also, in the Gundam 00 universe, where everything seems to be at least marginally based on science, I do not see a way where everyone on Earth could be quickly converted into innovators; certainly not a way that would take any less that a few hundred years. The only way this would be achievable is through a Deus ex Machina device, like the thought elevator in Code Geass. It might be tempting to think of Veda as such a device, but so far it has done nothing to show that it is capable of playing any role in human evolution. It will most certainly play a central role in the end, but it is more likely to be the instrument through which Ribbons and the Innovators will be defeated.

I think that Setsuna becoming an Innovator is perhaps the greatest plot twist in the whole series! Setsuna in that state is as strong or perhaps stronger than Hallelujah and Allelujah combined consciousness, and since he is the first ever human to become an innovator is that why he is stronger than the artificially created Innovators by Aeolia? Since Setsuna was just able to pawn a lot of innovators, where even an Innovator like Tieria is having trouble beating one. The thing that I really want to happen in the next episode or so, is everyone in the Ptolemy learning about Setsuna becoming an Innovator. It’s quite ironic in contrast to Tieria who completely denies his existence as Innovator, and instead chooses to become human (the ep. where he killed that innovator, declaring that he is human).

Though your right Omni, Setsuna’s fate in the series seems to be gloom, since doesn’t he and Ribbons have the same goal of uniting humanity by turning them all to innovators? Though I suspect that Ribbons’ plan is more so of world domination, but the means is still the same, guiding humans into becoming innovators.

Anybody notice 00 Gundam’s new sword in the preview? It looks like Exia’s main weapon, and it has a pointed edge. Unlike the GN sword IIs. They have to do an OVA at this point. There are just too many questions to be answered in four episodes. I hope they redesign the Gundams, like they did with all the Gundam Wing Endless Waltz Gundams.

And when are the DVDs coming out? This Gundam series is definitely a keeper.

I’m guessing that Graham realizes how petty his motivations are compared to what its costing the world (maybe seeing his future self in Ali?) and fights alongside CB but dies to Ribbons in a some super suit

I don’t want any sequels of Gundam 00. I already can’t stand Meisters especially Lyle and Alleliujah. I am not emotionally attached to any of them. I reamember the best only 8 episode from 21 episodes.

@Nakobass the gn sword III is supposed to combine the beam saber and the gn physical swords so, the sword is gonna cut just as easily as a beam saber but since it’s part of the physical sword it can go through gn fields too

The way they have so many lose strings, if they wrap them up neatly in four episodes. They are good for doing so. But the potential profit of comming back to the 00 universe later after the next series; must be too tempting in this global economy at this point and time.

Why not go for a sure profit, instead of pushing ahead with another series with no familar proven characters?

Besides 00 is easily my favorite Gundam series after both Seed series with Wing and G Gundam trailing behind in that order. So I would not mind seeing another series based in the 00 universe.

However, they can wrap everything up in four episodes just neat enough. First the major fleet battle, Veda discovery with exposition and fighting, fighting and exposition, the end. That can be done in four episodes, especially since Gundam shows are famous for rival fighters to blast each other with words as well as beams while having their final duel.

I can imagine Ribbons losing his cool while fighting Setsuna and just blabbing on and on about how everything went, and how everything should go according to his plan and will. And also how he was made to lead mankind.

And how Setsuna blasts back, in conjunction with Saiji who probally will Innovate at the last second too, how humans desire the ability to choose and make choices for themselves as well as a deeper understanding of one another.

Actually this gundam has been much more subtle and deeper than the previous ones like seed and wing. I’m sure some people prefer to read between the lines rather than having the plot and characterizations hammered out, all the red herrings exposed and everything explained to the most minute detail.

Unfortunately, sunrise will probably have to cater to people like lilu who needs everything explained.