kenzo wrote:DudeL - you should try joining the 21st Century. It's pretty great over here.

I like how you're accusing the guy who believes a character's portrayal is sexist of being insensitive

How do you not see the inherent conflict in claiming something is sexist, and then condemning it using sexist rhetoric? Women and female characters can have dispassionate and casual sex and flaunt their sexuality in the modern age without being labeled sluts.

How do you not see the inherent conflict in claiming something is sexist, and then condemning it using sexist rhetoric? Women and female characters can have dispassionate and casual sex and flaunt their sexuality in the modern age without being labeled sluts.

Not if they're all "Hey I'm a female fuck me cause that's only role I serve!"

"I never understand people who like Star Wars but don't even like Star Trek or people who like Star Wars but don't like Star Trek."-Adam Fitch

Not only that, but man or woman, throwing your dick or pussy into anything that moves is a BAD thing. Emotional drama, pregnancy, and STDs are all serious risks of careless casual sex. I don't have a problem with a woman fucking however many people when/how she wants, but if she does it recklessly? Slut.

Raine wrote:Not only that, but man or woman, throwing your dick or pussy into anything that moves is a BAD thing. Emotional drama, pregnancy, and STDs are all serious risks of careless casual sex. I don't have a problem with a woman fucking however many people when/how she wants, but if she does it recklessly? Slut.

Thank you man who has Spiderfist as his avatar.

"I never understand people who like Star Wars but don't even like Star Trek or people who like Star Wars but don't like Star Trek."-Adam Fitch

How do you not see the inherent conflict in claiming something is sexist, and then condemning it using sexist rhetoric? Women and female characters can have dispassionate and casual sex and flaunt their sexuality in the modern age without being labeled sluts.

Not if they're all "Hey I'm a female fuck me cause that's only role I serve!"

1.) You haven't clearly defined this as the case for Starfire. Having casual, recreational sex with someone you don't love is a natural and normal thing. That's the only grounds you've had with calling her a slut, and that's awful. It's only okay for Starfire to be sexy if it's within the confines and context of a monogamous relationship with someone? Do you realize how fucked up and antiquated that sounds?2.) Again, within a serious discussion on gender roles and sexuality, there's no room for using that kind of word, even if you think it's totally applicable. Or would you think it's okay to call a gay character a "faggot" just because you don't like their depiction? Or an Asian character a "chink"?

Raine wrote:Not only that, but man or woman, throwing your dick or pussy into anything that moves is a BAD thing. Emotional drama, pregnancy, and STDs are all serious risks of careless casual sex. I don't have a problem with a woman fucking however many people when/how she wants, but if she does it recklessly? Slut.

1.) In this case, it's not been established what-so-ever that the casual sex in question is "careless." The complaint in question is simply that it's casual.2.) Starfire is an Alien, so not only is it ridiculous to judge her and her culture based on human standards, but these "serious risks" like pregnancy and STDs are probably not applicable at all.3.) The problem with calling her a slut with regards to your concerns, "man or woman," is that "slut" is specifically a derogatory word that's only applicable to women. There's no male equivalent to "slut". DudeL isn't up in arms that Roy would have casual sex with Starfire, willy-nilly -- the expectations here are only for Starfire. That's a sexist double-standard.

How do you not see the inherent conflict in claiming something is sexist, and then condemning it using sexist rhetoric? Women and female characters can have dispassionate and casual sex and flaunt their sexuality in the modern age without being labeled sluts.

Not if they're all "Hey I'm a female fuck me cause that's only role I serve!"

1.) You haven't clearly defined this as the case for Starfire.

He didn't need to. Judd Winnick did within the confines of the comic she was depicted in. Have you even read the comic or are you truly just talking out of your ass here?

You've done a great job of proving that your initial posts about Starfire are completely disingenuous and hypocritical. Great fake-outrage DudeL.

LiQuid wrote:

kenzo wrote:There's no male equivalent to "slut".

Yes there is... "Slut."

Show me in any dictionary where the word "slut" even remotely refers to males.

LiQuid wrote:He didn't need to. Judd Winnick did within the confines of the comic she was depicted in. Have you even read the comic or are you truly just talking out of your ass here?

I'm just commenting first and foremost on the conversation here - that DudeL called a woman character a slut because she has casual sex. I'll read the comic later and make my own judgments. But even if he's right about Starfire being portrayed in a sexist manner, my original point that calling her a "slut" undermines his argument stands - it's hypocritical to show a concern for feminism and simultaneously steep your argument in sexist diction.

Raine wrote:Not only that, but man or woman, throwing your dick or pussy into anything that moves is a BAD thing. Emotional drama, pregnancy, and STDs are all serious risks of careless casual sex. I don't have a problem with a woman fucking however many people when/how she wants, but if she does it recklessly? Slut.

Starfire is an alien right? So she would have a different bio-physiology. Human STDs may or may not affect her, and I doubt she could get pregnant. If we're being realistic and all. Just saying.

kenzo wrote:Show me in any dictionary where the word "slut" even remotely refers to males.

Also, specifically addressing LiQuid's Wikipedia article, nothing written in that sub-section of the article implies the same negativity and condemnation towards men that the word inherently holds towards women. In fact, it specifically states at one point "The term has been 'taken back' to express the rejection of the concept that government, society, or religion may judge or control one's personal liberties, and the right to control one's own sexuality." There is no male equivalent of "slut" for men, because it's never been bad for men to sleep around in the same way it's been bad for women to sleep around.

Last edited by kenzo on Oct 8th, 2011 @ 12:23am, edited 1 time in total.

Raine wrote:Not only that, but man or woman, throwing your dick or pussy into anything that moves is a BAD thing. Emotional drama, pregnancy, and STDs are all serious risks of careless casual sex. I don't have a problem with a woman fucking however many people when/how she wants, but if she does it recklessly? Slut.

Starfire is an alien right? So she would have a different bio-physiology. Human STDs may or may not affect her, and I doubt she could get pregnant. If we're being realistic and all. Just saying.

So I'm not allowed to use negative terms to describe something negative? okay smart person.

I have clearly stated that my observation on Starfire is not based on human standards, it's based on the standards of her species established in the mythology. Once again, Tamaraneans are very emotional so things like friendship and romantic love are important to them, and this was especially the case with Starfire. Sex does not always have to be about passion and romance but for her it was because performing such an intimate act would naturally invoke her empathetic nature as a Tamaranean. Other characters may be allowed to have meaningless casual sex but it's not okay for her because it is vastly out of character. And I have expressed my outrage at Roy for him acting like a frat boy when propositioned by Starfire and for them keeping him a jerk despite retconning all the stuff that made him a jerk, mind you before the reboot Roy Harper was a loving single father until some dummies said they want him back on heroin so they killed his daughter and chopped off his arm. And I don't need to express my distaste for Jason Todd because Jason Todd was always an asshole.

And I really didn't want this to be a battle of semantics because those are really fucking stupid but you just had to take it there Kenzo. Here's the thing about words, we are their masters not the other way around. Words are only given the meaning we want them to have. That is why today there are things like police officers being okay with being called cops and African-Americans adopting a derogatory slang word as a a term of endearment amongst themselves. I used slut because to me it means an individual who is of low moral fiber because of his or her loose sexual activity, I don't think it's sexist I only think it's a decent word to describe someone of that description. And my outburst of cunt was meant to mock your overreaction to a word as mundane as slut. Cunt may be considered the worst thing to call a woman but do you know what cunt really is? A silly made up nonsense word. Sometimes it's used to refer to women or female genitalia in a derogatory way but it's still just nonsense, we gave it a meaning so I treat it as the nonsense word it is. So while you may get all butthurt over a word as simple as slut most of us, in fact many women, can be okay with slut because we don't give it such an exaggerated definition.

In conclusion Red Hood and The Outlaws sucks. Somewhere out there in the universe this is Ryan Higgins.

"I never understand people who like Star Wars but don't even like Star Trek or people who like Star Wars but don't like Star Trek."-Adam Fitch

kenzo wrote:Show me in any dictionary where the word "slut" even remotely refers to males.

Right as soon as you show me in any dictionary where it says it implies sexist gender role expectations that just aren't applicable anymore.

"a promiscuous woman; especially : prostitute"

implying someone is a prostitute because they're more liberal about their sex-life is pretty backwards.

Guillermo_DudeL wrote:I used slut because to me it means an individual who is of low moral fiber because of his or her loose sexual activity

Casual sex does not equate to low moral fiber, sorry. And insistence upon the chastity of a female character is a sexist expectation. I understand the meaning of your explanation and the context of your understanding of the character, but it's not consistent with your expectations of sexual abstinence. You even said she's a "free love" kind of person, and part of free love is free sex (whether you meant implication or not). Your intent is to paint this character as a kind of nasty 'space-hood-rat'. But all I'm reading is the description of a 'space-hippy', which is inconsistent with 'low moral fiber' and the derogatory connotations of 'slut'.

Guillermo_DudeL wrote:Here's the thing about words, we are their masters not the other way around. Words are only given the meaning we want them to have.

Refusing to take into consideration the possible inappropriate/offensive nature of words to your listeners/readers and refusal to choose your diction carefully does not demonstrate a mastery over words - it's the exact opposite and demonstrates a willful subservience to ignorance. I have no problem with people being as crass and insulting as they feel like with their words. Look at LiQuid, I love the guy despite (or maybe because?) his continual attempts to provoke a response out of me. But I found it a contradiction to try and call something out as sexist or offensive, but then to use words that are sexist and offensive yourself in your critique. I'm merely pointing that out, not getting butthurt.

LOLLLLLL, just read Red Hood and the Outlaws. It's bad, but in a way that seems intentional and campy. I don't have any of the expectations you guys probably have so I can detach myself from that. But it seems like they're going for an inversion of what the Teen Titans are. I don't really see anything as sexist though.

Man, I was just talking about the general idea behind the usage of the word "slut" and whether or not it's a degrading and sexist term. The details about this Starfire mean nothing to me, I was just talking about the word itself.

waitaminute, that Spider-Man musical had Ben die in a random car accident? Wouldn't that be like if Batman's parents were still around? Somebody fucked up.