I think this is going to be me playing the victim again. Telling a sob story again. But guess what? I think I'll just tell it anyway.

1) I decided not to go back to my centre, after they made it clear they don't welcome me. They starting passing snide remarks about me, and after one particularly insensitive remark, I think I just had it. I broke off all contact, including phone, sms and Facebook. I had a good relationship with the resident teacher, which was a shame. I don't know falling out like this will land me in Vajra hell.

2) I have schizophrenia and depression and after the thread about Vajrayana and psychological problems, it just got me thinking. Maybe I shouldn't have touched Vajrayana at all. Among my delusions are being in the bloodline of Jesus, becoming the anti-Christ, someone trying to kill my mum etc and some concerning Vajrayana, which I'd rather not mention. I also had the delusion I caused the demise of e-sangha, because of slander and wrong speech. I can't judge whether being condemned to Vajra hell is a delusion or not.

3) I thought a girl in a 3 year retreat whom I corresponded with (she claimed I was the only one sending letters) wanted to be steady with me, then she dumped me and announced her relationship on Facebook. We had a falling out and I don't know if that will condemn me to Vajra hell.

4) I tried to take an overdose last year after some silly falling out with my classmates in a degree course. I discontinued my course, becoming paranoid.

1) In the morning, if I have 5 minutes, I would count my breath for a 100 breaths. If I have 15 minutes, I would chant "Verses of Noble Auspicious Ones" and "Lama Chenno". If I have 30 minutes, I would chant refuge and Vajra Guru Mantra.

Sometimes when I'm depressed I'll even miss practice for a couple of days.

2) I see the pdoc, a psychologist and take my medicine.

3) I am in an email group that chants the Sanghata Sutra and one that chants the Golden Light Sutra.

Ease up. You've done nothing that leads to an experience of Vajra hell.Keep seeing your doctor and treating yourself.Avoid the center where you are mistreated, but be sure that's the case and not just paranoia.Keep out of facebook. Online people tend to act more foolishly.When possible, discuss your situation honestly with a qualified lama.

Schizophrenia and depression must very tough for you my friend. I work with folks who have severe mental illness such as schizophrenia and depression. Not to mention the staff members who basically need to be medicated themselves. Crap it is tough for you, for me, and for everyone else. Stress is up to my eyeballs everyday. But reciting Amitabha really keeps me sane, and I have been reciting my own hallucinations away. So the quickest way to exit out of cycle of death and rebirth is through recitation of Amitabha, you can go within 7 days if you are sincere enough to chant or recite within 7 days, and request for Amitabha to come get you. What you experience is really suffering man, and it's the worst.

NAMO AMITABHANAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)Bodhidharma [my translation]―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

Dechen Norbu wrote:Ease up. You've done nothing that leads to an experience of Vajra hell.Keep seeing your doctor and treating yourself.Avoid the center where you are mistreated, but be sure that's the case and not just paranoia.Keep out of facebook. Online people tend to act more foolishly.When possible, discuss your situation honestly with a qualified lama.

Best wishes!

At the center, people might just be on edge. A vajra sis of mine stopped her meds, started calling my other vajra sis at all hours, with various conspiracy theories...she would also lash out at people without warning etc. Needless to say we 'talked about her'...we had to, she was causing problems for the rest of us. I think we were scared of her at some level. We wanted to help her, but no one really knew how.

So maybe the people at the center just got frustrated at some point. If you can contact the teacher w/o making contact w/the rest of the sangha, maybe go that route.

"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra

Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?

Dechen Norbu wrote:Ease up. You've done nothing that leads to an experience of Vajra hell.Keep seeing your doctor and treating yourself.Avoid the center where you are mistreated, but be sure that's the case and not just paranoia.Keep out of facebook. Online people tend to act more foolishly.When possible, discuss your situation honestly with a qualified lama.

Best wishes!

At the center, people might just be on edge. A vajra sis of mine stopped her meds, started calling my other vajra sis at all hours, with various conspiracy theories...she would also lash out at people without warning etc. Needless to say we 'talked about her'...we had to, she was causing problems for the rest of us. I think we were scared of her at some level. We wanted to help her, but no one really knew how.

So maybe the people at the center just got frustrated at some point. If you can contact the teacher w/o making contact w/the rest of the sangha, maybe go that route.

That's why I said: Avoid the center where you are mistreated, but be sure that's the case and not just paranoia.Still, there's many ways to approach this sort of situations by other Sangha members. Seldom people are able to do it in a positive way. Then instead of helping solving the problem, people end up generating negative karma for themselves. Usually there's too much gossip in Dharma centers. If someone is ill, a doctor is in order. If that person doesn't want to receive treatment, he may be denied access to the center. His family should be contacted and, if no one is available to help, health authorities should be contacted. Gossip and amateur measures rarely lead to good results. All this should be very discrete and done kind heartedly, not out of fear or done to get rid of a problem. It may just happen that we may become part of the problem if we think this way. Don't take me wrong as I'm not specifically addressing the situation you describe in your Dharma center. Just speaking of it generally.

I think you are doing absolutely wonderful. Considering the circumstance you are in you have identified a many step plan to progress personally and spiritually nevertheless.

I am actually quite impressed and am not just saying that.If I was in your situation I probably would not do half as well. And writing down things one is doing in a orgainzed fashion...quite remarkable.

Vajra hell, as others have said...forget about it.You are trying to maintain your spiritual practice despite haveing a tough row to hoe. That is for people who have forcefully thrown it away for no good reason. Neither is the case.

This is no sob story but a very real challenge you are riseing to meet.Eventually, given enought time you will be successful. The only advice I could give to one doing so well is...don't put a time line to it. These things take time. Quite a while....don't expect the impossible of yourself. Advancement regression it may seem like one is always down, but the obvious to any others that may read this thing....no way.Most remember good things and forget bad, some remember bad things and forget the good. The latter maythink they are never going anywhere progressing in any manner...the truth is they are advancing likely more than the first. A higher standard they are holding is all.

So it is perhaps the feeling that one is always going down that is most difficult. It is obvious that is not the case. Every change may seem a deficit or negative. That is quite quite unlikely to be true.

I especially like the martial arts idea. I personally would be very serious about it and condition myself as well so one may succeed at it. Success at this time may be a very nice thing to have, even if it just a physical success. Make sure you find the right place that has classes tailored to adults, not just children. Some of the lesser places throw in newbees with kids and that is not conducive to good training to my opinion. If you intend to train seriously make sure you tell that to your doc. He may find it necessary to tailor your meds as you go along..(I don't know but maybe). At the very least the doc should be told what you are doing. In evaluating a place to train and learn, I advise to pay attention to what the master of the dojo may say but more important is to watch a class or two and see how the students are at varying levels of their training. How is their demeanor and are they with the proper attitude.self respect and respect for others and the dojo. Obvious disrespect and I would choose another.Sometimes the smallest of places is the best.

Some martial arts disciplines require one to first have a backround in general martial arts befor one can qualify as a student in that particular discipline.That may take a year or two to endeavor before one may qualify.

Last edited by ronnewmexico on Tue May 24, 2011 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:1) I decided not to go back to my centre, after they made it clear they don't welcome me. They starting passing snide remarks about me, and after one particularly insensitive remark, I think I just had it. I broke off all contact, including phone, sms and Facebook. I had a good relationship with the resident teacher, which was a shame. I don't know falling out like this will land me in Vajra hell.

I also had difficulties with my former sangha. They weren't unkind to me in the ways that they were to you, but I just felt it wasn't for me anymore and felt negatively about it. I recently visited there just to be friendly and it was VERY awkward, so I don't think I'll visit them very much anymore, although I'm still in email contact with a few of the nicest members. Sometimes it's best just to leave and wish people well from a distance.

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:2) I have schizophrenia and depression and after the thread about Vajrayana and psychological problems, it just got me thinking.

That's difficult stuff and I'm no expert, but you might want to also try reciting the mantra's of Medicine Buddha and Green Tara because they have healing powers.

But ultimately the best thing would be for you to find a good lama to guide you, even if this lama is further away and you can only see him once or twice a year (this is what I'm doing now).

That's great that you have lots of plans to improve yourself, but at the same time, I hope that you don't stress yourself out with too many plans at once. Just do what you're capable of doing and then add a little more as you are able to. Remember to be kind to yourself as well!

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:Sometimes I really think I cannot take it. That I want to go away and never come back. And being a Buddhist that's mean Nirvana! Death is not an answer in Buddhism and that really sucks!

I felt like that when I was depressed when I was a teenager. My suggestion would be to reflect on impermanence: Life might suck now, but things change, so it won't suck forever. Suicide doesn't improve anything; it just moves your confused mind to a new location which won't necessarily be any better, and the bardo is some scary business. So hang in there, and things will eventually improve, even though you can't imagine it at the moment.

gnegirl wrote:At the center, people might just be on edge. A vajra sis of mine stopped her meds, started calling my other vajra sis at all hours, with various conspiracy theories...she would also lash out at people without warning etc. Needless to say we 'talked about her'...we had to, she was causing problems for the rest of us. I think we were scared of her at some level. We wanted to help her, but no one really knew how.

So maybe the people at the center just got frustrated at some point. If you can contact the teacher w/o making contact w/the rest of the sangha, maybe go that route.

I was mostly not symptomatic in the centre. I have been taking medication faithfully. My relapse last year had to do with my this Vajra sis and my classmates, rather than centre people. I think they just don't need me anymore. I am jobless and can't offer anything, not even fruits for tsog. Although I was tasked to tutor the young lama and do typing, I've not finished these projects. But in my defence, I have written flyers, booklets and translated stuff like long-life prayers. It's a pity. I've grown to trust the resident lama. Now, I'm all alone again and barred from Tibetan centres by my mom, and I can't do anything as I'm not financially independent.

Dechen Norbu wrote:That's why I said: Avoid the center where you are mistreated, but be sure that's the case and not just paranoia.

Paranoia is very difficult to deal with. You want to cut off ties with people. And yet in prayers you're saying you want to benefit everyone. How can that be when in real life, you think people want to harm you?

1) In the morning, if I have 5 minutes, I would count my breath for a 100 breaths. If I have 15 minutes, I would chant "Verses of Noble Auspicious Ones" and "Lama Chenno". If I have 30 minutes, I would chant refuge and Vajra Guru Mantra.

Gyaltsen Tashi

Actually, I don't do this. What actually happens is that I'll think "What a good day. I have no commitments today. I'll have the time to go through all my teachings and prayers". Then 1-2 hour later, I find I get tired going through my basket of teachings and prayers. Then I'll either stop or do my commitments rushing through. But I still think it's all important. And I get guilty for not completing everything, although I have no other commitments for the day.

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:1) In the morning, if I have 5 minutes, I would count my breath for a 100 breaths. Gyaltsen Tashi

It's very strange. I hope I am not boasting when I say this but I have little trouble counting to hundreds while counting breaths, but it doesn't translate to anything off the cushion. I still throw the biggest temper tantrums.

Last edited by Gyaltsen Tashi on Wed May 25, 2011 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:3) I thought a girl in a 3 year retreat whom I corresponded with (she claimed I was the only one sending letters) wanted to be steady with me, then she dumped me and announced her relationship on Facebook. We had a falling out and I don't know if that will condemn me to Vajra hell.

I've actually slandered her in an email on another issue, not related to our relationship. I guess I was casting aspersions on her character, after what I perceived as being cheated by her. Wouldn't this is a serious breach of samaya, not withstanding what she did to me?

I bumped into her once, and she immediately disappeared. Now I think I may never attend Garchen's Rinpoche's teachings again for fear of seeing her.

ronnewmexico wrote:I especially like the martial arts idea. I personally would be very serious about it and condition myself as well so one may succeed at it. Success at this time may be a very nice thing to have, even if it just a physical success. Make sure you find the right place that has classes tailored to adults, not just children. Some of the lesser places throw in newbees with kids and that is not conducive to good training to my opinion. If you intend to train seriously make sure you tell that to your doc. He may find it necessary to tailor your meds as you go along..(I don't know but maybe). At the very least the doc should be told what you are doing. In evaluating a place to train and learn, I advise to pay attention to what the master of the dojo may say but more important is to watch a class or two and see how the students are at varying levels of their training. How is their demeanor and are they with the proper attitude.self respect and respect for others and the dojo. Obvious disrespect and I would choose another.Sometimes the smallest of places is the best.

Some martial arts disciplines require one to first have a backround in general martial arts befor one can qualify as a student in that particular discipline.That may take a year or two to endeavor before one may qualify.

The class is taught by a Shaolin monk. He's pretty young and full of youth and vitality:D And I'm mostly doing it to obey my mom, who thinks martial arts is better than counselling for me. One lesson and I was full of aches and pains. Hope I can persevere, and not beat a hasty retreat again.

1) In the morning, if I have 5 minutes, I would count my breath for a 100 breaths. If I have 15 minutes, I would chant "Verses of Noble Auspicious Ones" and "Lama Chenno". If I have 30 minutes, I would chant refuge and Vajra Guru Mantra.

Gyaltsen Tashi

Actually, I don't do this. What actually happens is that I'll think "What a good day. I have no commitments today. I'll have the time to go through all my teachings and prayers". Then 1-2 hour later, I find I get tired going through my basket of teachings and prayers. Then I'll either stop or do my commitments rushing through. But I still think it's all important. And I get guilty for not completing everything, although I have no other commitments for the day.

Why don't you pick one thing and focus on it every day? Keep it simple. Vajra Guru mantra would be perfect - they say Guru Yoga is a complete path. Guru Rinpoche embodies all your teachers, past, present and future, as well as all the yidams, dakinis, protectors, etc. It sounds like you're overwhelmed by all the practices you feel you should do. Don't worry about doing everything.

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:I've actually slandered her in an email on another issue, not related to our relationship. I guess I was casting aspersions on her character, after what I perceived as being cheated by her. Wouldn't this is a serious breach of samaya, not withstanding what she did to me?

Vajra hell is every moment you are not sorry about negative actions you have done, or that you feel powerless to rectify them. It's never too late to purify. Just acknowledge how much it hurts to harbor anger - and do your best to wish her happiness. Even if you can't wish her happiness right now, simply make the aspiration that one day - in the near or distant future - you may possibly develop that quality of being able to wish happiness even on people who hurt you.

Friend of mine had schizo your age, now he's much better a few years later, he also went without gluton (bready) foods for a while and felt better & realized he is allergic, cut down on most dairy too. See which overall lifestyle factors improve or deteriorate your condition. Definitely do the degree in something you dig.

Using analysis as you do is good but sometimes instincts are needed too & both are best. Sometimes just do nothing, rest your boiling poor head. Also no need to practice every day if no commitments as long as not dropping the habit and practice regular, just remember the lama-yidam-dakini in your heart even for a few seconds every day, but be genuine for those short moments. Short quality session is better than long & quantity.

Paranoia scenarios for you? Stop being a prima-donna drama queen. Being nice & turning over a new leaf with people changes all given time, but positive persistence is needed. Research & develop & innovate your creative side as a hobby/therapy & not as a fantasy career for now. Limitations? They're challenges. Dare yourself every few days to do some little new positive non-harmful daring & fun challenge. For a few seconds be a carefree tiger, practice small at first. Flow with the world having fun & progress on the path while you have this wonderful channelled/chakrad vehicle of a warm human type body for a few short years. Vajra hell for you? Don't flatter & big-up yourself so much, get real. Every thing you worry about and/or feel guilty above is a sack of sh!t you're carrying around. See things from others' POV to see true reality & develop sympathies instead of seeking them. Have fun.