No nation has ever taken the steps Israel has taken, to warn civilians to get out of certain areas because of the potential strikes by it's military. The surgical strikes are proof of this. It would be very easy not to avoid these strikes which poses risks to it'Israel's military. On the other hand, we have terrorists using civilian structures undoubtedly being used as pawns. Life matters to civil societies, less can be said to primitive societies.

One wonders where the UN was, when rockets were being fired into Israel weeks or months ago. The silence was deafening.

If the reporter is trying to tell us, that Israel's retaliation is a result of the upcoming elections in Jan., he has failed. Any country would do exactly what Israel is and will be doing in the future.

I tend to believe I have a pretty balanced opinion on the Israeli/Arab conflict. I usually place the blame where it rightfully belongs. I can't help but see that part of the problem might just be your view that your society is "superior" to anyone else's. I mean I thought we were done with those times, wouldn't you agree?

your post is the proof that today Israel is the new jew.
Same arguments were used by classic racists against jews.
The fear that the jews were "superior" was the base for justifying anti semitic rethoric.
I'm sure lots of people would prefer seeing Israel/jews been unable to defend themselves...

Israel isn't carpet bombing and attacking civilians. It is only targeting military cites that Hamas has located in civilian areas. Israel has a right to attack them, as they are used by Hamas to fire rockets at Israeli civilians. Thus, the onus is on Hamas to move its rocket sites to non-civilian areas. They don't want to do this, because they want child martyrs to film for propaganda purposes.

Does noticing this make me a fan of Israel? No, I'm quite critical of many aspects of current Israeli policies. However, favoring an independent Palestinian state doesn't make me blind to the fault Hamas bears for using its civilians as shields.

Hamas is fighting for the liberation of the marginalized and oppressed community who have been continuously deceived by hypocrite international community especially USA, slave of Israel. When words cannot find solutions, weapons rose. And check stats in the last week not a single Israeli soldier is killed and Palestinian civilians are being killed.

Not a single Israeli soldier killed simply because Hamas and their extreme-extremist buddies couldn´t hit water from a boat. They poked the bear and now the civilians of Gaza have to pay, again. Gazans should push Hamas to the sea and wash them off their shores.

Sounds very patriotic and inspirational and all, but one can't help but wonder if the Gazans and Hamas had decided to try maintaining and running the lucrative greenhouses etc. which were left them when the Israelis departed (paid for on behalf of the Gazans by donations from Jews worldwide, ironically, rather than their wealthy brethren in the Arab oil states) rather than letting their major potential source of incoming cash turn to rubble in favor of using their country as a platform for random bombardment to take revenge for the Israelis having occupied the area before the Israelis departed the area; if in that case the Israelis would be wasting time, lives, money, and international goodwill periodically invading Gaza just to annoy the residents, or perhaps in an attempt to win back rule of the area which they had ruled until they decided they didn't want to rule it.

In sort of a backhanded defense of the Palestinians, this is a perfect example of the same human tendency which inflames politics in the US, where as so many have noted, nearly half the country votes for policies that would hurt them: the truth is that people are more motivated by things like pride and insults than they are by the actual physical and economic welfare of themselves and their families. If it were otherwise, we'd have achieved Paradise on Earth a thousand years ago, at least.

The diversity of the comments below - some dispassionate, many more rightfully emotional - only seems to illuminate how sadly far we are from any solution. With the exception of a few who have correctly pointed out the need for constructive, meaningful and representative dialogue as the only means to resolve this problem, the large majority have resorted to blaming one side or the other. While this may perhaps be legitimate, and it certainly is worthwhile to consider historical roots - long term and short - political and social dimensions, current parties should somehow come to agree that killing each other is not in anyone's best interest, and as many have mentioned, you are both doomed to live next to each other. However much this may sound like pie in the sky, dialogue over finding even a minimally amicable solution with SOME sense of finality and closure is the ONLY way forward. It doesn't help when the voices of moderation are always drowned out.

Dear Beans, from the very illegitimate birth of Israel by Britain, France and then USA, negotiations are being done. Israel does not listen anyone be it a case of human rights violations or anything. Israel is illegitimate and its historical fact. negotiations is a delaying tactic , grow up its been more than 60 years now.

Most countries had an illegitimate birth. International law doesn´t care about that, it only cares about wether a state fulfils the criterias for statehood. And you would really have to stretch your reasoning quite far to back up any claim that says Israel doesn´t fulfil these criterias.

Ashraf, you have a lot going for you. Your stupidity, lack of schooling, ignorance,immaturity, a school drop out, and a genetically modified brain that never functioned properly. But hey Ashraf, their is hope for you, tremendous strides have been made in genetic engineering. Just think, you might become normal again.

Ashraf, any basic look at history and you can see Israelis lived in Palestine thousands of years ago. Modern Palestinian Arabs only date back around 1300 years or so, no matter what their religion says about land rights.

And seriously, what nation starts out "legitimate"? Every nation in history that has claimed that plot of land has done so through force of arms. The fact is, they are both there now, and the two sides' leaders need to realize that the extremist approach simply cannot work. It never has, and never will.

It's a shame that our world's politicians have gone to such extremes. Like the recent American elections, it seems that moderate, level-headed people are in short supply - and quickly dismissed by the insanely partisan ruling elite.

The most irritating thing is the armchair warriors who cheerlead the whole thing. Anybody who is Israeli, Palestinian, Arab, Jew, Muslim, or related to either party in the conflict in some way is, of course, logically entitled to be biased. But the vast number of people in the world who have no "dog in the fight" almost literally, yet pound the drums for one side or the other to fight the Evil Enemy until the bitter end and remind their favored team continually of every atrocity they have to pay back, have a moral standing somewhere among those of spectators at gladitorial combats, dog fights, and lynchings.

Remmember Belfaur declaration in whcih British and French pledged to "grant" Paltestinian territory to jews from europe. AT that time there already some jews living in Palestine and Iran as well. Even now jews have some offcial ranks in Iran. But point is that how is it to justify to bring in a nation from around at the expense of the already locals? AT the expense of atrocity and oppression of the helpless poor locals? Noam Chomsky rightly said that Israel is not at war with palestinians but is a "murderer" why? becasue war is fought between two sides when both have weapons etc
Palestinians have nothing! So who do they rely on then? The one who gives them hope to shield oppression and give them liberation. Israel is slowly taking out territory and no one is stopping it! Is that justice? Ok if jews had been dwelling there so did others whats their fault?

it is evident Israeli forces know extremely well where the terrorists are, and love this flashy rambo way of missiling the foe and going viral over the internet. Why not taking them out with little noise and no fanfare at all ?

some years ago a few IRA terrorists went to a petrol station in Gibraltar, and ended horizontal. Do we need to know who it was ? do we need to make a scoop on tv ? no. Take them out and keep quiet.

What country in the world would not retaliate against rocket attacks against it? Whatever the virtues or vices of Israel, it DOES have the right of self defense. Its retaliation is not immoral just because it has superior weapons. Perhaps the Palestinians would be well advised to cease firing rockets into Israel--at least until they have the capacity to win the war they are provoking.

Someone asked me What kind of world do I live in? The poor Gazans don't even control their own borders etc... Why doesn't this commenter ask: Why won't their Arab neighbors allow them to move across their borders? Jordan and Egypt?? Why don't the other rich Arab cousins send money and equipment to Gaza. They only send WEAPONS. I feel sorry for the poor people of Gaza. and how is it that I met some amazingly wealthy Palestinians in a 5 star hotel in Europe who were in shock that American Jews had given large amounts of money to start a school in one of the territories when their own people who have money leave the Gazans to sit as victims in houses less than housing projects in the slums of NYC. I am not a dreamer. I am someone who makes things happen.

No, but West Bank does, and fat good it does them. Cal girl, you hit the nail on the head. All the Arab nations bitch about how unfair Israel is but they are too self righteous to help out the Palestinians. The same goes with the Kurds - no wonder they want to start their own nation.

The Palestinian nation was doomed from the start because their own ethnic kin shun them. They appear to want the conflict to continue, because a peaceful Gaza would reduce Israel's supposed infidel illegitimacy.

Inheriting The Wind? Is this what Israel under P.M. Netanyahu is now doing?

In 1996-99, he had the good chance to make peace. But he chose to renege on the Oslo Accords. Since 2009, he has refused to even start serious negotiations with the Palestinians. Now a new Egyptian government supportive of Hamas is in power. This is closer to reflecting the will of the majority of the Egyptian people than Mubarak was. It seems like, as the region opens up to democracy, more and more Middle Easterners will move the same way. So, now the tide of history is moving against him. will P.M. Netanyahu wake up and negotiate before his and Israel's hand is further weakened? Or do blind, self-believing ideologues just keep going in the same bad direction regardless? I guess in the next few years we will find out?

Meantime here's what Wikipedia tells us about Netanyahu's handling of the Oslo Accords. Let's only hope this is not how things will go again now :

" From the inception of the Oslo accords, Netanyahu opposed them. During his term as prime minister in the late 1990s, Netanyahu consistently reneged on commitments made by previous Israeli governments as part of the Oslo peace process, leading American peace envoy Dennis Ross to note that “neither President Clinton nor Secretary [of State Madeleine] Albright believed that Bibi had any real interest in pursuing peace.”

In a 2001 video, Netanyahu, reportedly unaware he was being recorded, said: "They asked me before the election if I'd honor [the Oslo Accords]," "I said I would, but ... I'm going to interpret the accords in such a way that would allow me to put an end to this galloping forward to the '67 borders. How did we do it? Nobody said what defined military zones were. Defined military zones are security zones; as far as I'm concerned, the entire Jordan Valley is a defined military zone. Go argue." "

Speaking about generalizing about people: in general, it's exactly Oslo Accords which led to the bloodshed in the Middle East.
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As to RajPoru rhetoric, it is all that is different between him and you. You and he use different rhetoric but demand one and the same thing: Israel to commit suicide one way or the other to please the cowardly Pinko crowd French kissing the Mohammedan derrière.

And what does Wikipedia tell you about the previous Israeli administration who were actually in power at the time, regarding the Oslo Accords?
"Robert Malley, special assistant to US President Bill Clinton for Arab–Israeli Affairs, has confirmed that while Barak made no formal written offer to Arafat, the US did present concepts for peace which were considered by the Israeli side yet left unanswered by Arafat 'the Palestinians’ principal failing is that from the beginning of the Camp David summit onward they were unable either to say yes to the American ideas or to present a cogent and specific counterproposal of their own'"
and regarding Camp David:
"Barak reportedly put forward the following as 'bases for negotiation', via the U.S. to the Palestinian leader; 92% of the West Bank and the entire Gaza Strip,[16] as well as a Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem, and that 69 Jewish settlements (which comprise 85% of the West Bank's Jewish settlers) would be ceded to Israel ... President Clinton reportedly requested that Arafat make a counter-offer, but he proposed none. ... Clinton blamed Arafat for the failure of the Camp David Summit."
So, at the next election, the Israeli public decided to go a different way. Does this all suggest to you that Netanyahu is the sole and major reason there isn't peace in the Middle East by now?

Yes, agreed. But it's a pity you stop your assessment at the Camp David II meeting with Pres. Clinton.
As I understand it, Camp David II was ill-prepared - in good part because the P.M. Ehud Barak was a far better general than politician. He never consulted any of the other Israeli political parties or his cabinet about the terms he would offer, even though supposedly the meetings were intended to agree a long-term peace with the Palestinians.
In addition, the land map presented by the Israeli side at Camp David II was the same one the Palestinian negotiators had rejected outright three months before. This because it included large numbers of security corridors between Israeli settlements - which Palestinians would have been excluded from using, thus making territorial integrity for the proposed Palestinian state all but impossible.
Neither side really expected Camp David II to lead to an agreement. Nor did they want it. After all, there were huge popular demonstrations by both Israelis and by Palestinians in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, and in Ramallah, respectively demanding that their leaders reach no agreement without first consulting them! It's not a big stretch to imagine how dangerous it would have been to agree anything far reaching then!
In talks at Taba and later in Jerusalem, the Israeli negotiating team led by Shlomo Bon-Ami and the Palestinian negotiators led by Saeb Erekat did finally hammer out the details of a mutually acceptable long-term peace agreement - including the details on land swaps, settlements, right (or not) of return etc. Had this agreement been finalized one can only imagine how very different the lives of both Jewish Israelis and Palestinians would be today!
The Second Intifada intervened. This was sparked off by a very provocative visit to the Dome of the Rock by Ariel Sharon - which Yassir Arafat had pleaded with Ehud Barak to prevent. Oddly, the Israeli police who usually used rubber bullets at such events use live ammunition that day. So over 200 Palestinians were killed. Not surprisingly, this put a stop to any deal for either side. When you said Israelis decided to turn another way, this is clearly what contributed greatly to that.
Once Ariel Sharon came to office, he promptly consigned the draft agreement worked out by Ehud Barak and Yassir Arafat to the dustbin of history. You will recall that in 2002-03, when the Quartet drew up the "roadmap" for peace, the Likud cabinet debated long but could never agree to ever accept the existence of a Palestinian state!
After all the false starts and aborted efforts at peace, one has to wonder whether Abba Eban's famous remark about the Palestinians - that they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity - may not one day be better ascribed to the Israelis themselves! Let us sincerely hope not!

Hamas is already being funded by the Qataris. It is dellusional to believe that resistance against Israel will disappear thanks to external factors. Only an end to the oppression Palestinians suffer at the hands of Israel can effectively change that.

As was painfully/gleefully seen when Mursi visited Teheran, Iran has been made almost irrelevant by the arab spring. If the arab spring turns to a persian spring when Syria gets its freedom Iran might be made relevant again, but in a good way.

So funny to hear "supremacist Zionist". When the surviving jews from the holocaust crematories were put in ships, all those ships were dennied entrance everywhere, even in America. No one wanted "untermenchen". Some decades passed and the world, ironnically discovered that the "untermenchen" were gaining many of the Nobel Prizes... Israel is a tiny, tiny country, much smaller thant the arab territorial domination. Live your lives, and let us live ours.

You obviously need some enlightenment: Hamas has nothing to do with the PA bid for some fake status at the UN. PA and Hamas are enemies. It doesn't matter if the PA gets its cherished status and what it provides - they have no influence over the Gazan (Hamas) banditry. They do their own.

Yes keep comparing Israel to Nazism. Common one-sided, exaggerated propaganda used to undermine Israel. What about Assad's concentration camps in Syria? They have killed over 36,000 people. Why are you not talking about Syria? Was it not the grand mufti of Jerusalem who worked with the Nazis to exterminate the Jews in World War II? Was it not Yasser Arafat who rejected the two state solution? Israel has continuously made concessions while the Arabs continue to reject it. Why? Because the Arabs and Hamas want the Palestinians to continue living in harsh conditions in order to perpetuate their own political agenda.

Yes keep comparing Israel to Nazism. Common one-sided, exaggerated propaganda used to undermine Israel. What about Assad's concentration camps in Syria? They have killed over 36,000 people. Why are you not talking about Syria? Was it not the grand mufti of Jerusalem who worked with the Nazis to exterminate the Jews in World War II? Was it not Yasser Arafat who rejected the two state solution? Israel has continuously made concessions while the Arabs continue to reject it. Why? Because the Arabs and Hamas want the Palestinians to continue living in harsh conditions in order to perpetuate their own political agenda.

I do understand that the Arab world looks down on the Palestinian people but are you truly serious when you say..."Why? Because the Arabs and Hamas want the Palestinians to continue living in harsh conditions in order to perpetuate their own political agenda."

"Why? Because the Arabs and Hamas want the Palestinians to continue living in harsh conditions in order to perpetuate their own political agenda."
Of course that's true. Why else haven't some of the wealthiest nations on earth per capita seen fit to help their suffering brethren? Why else is it so hard for Palestinians to attain citizenship in any of the various Arab countries where they are given guest worker visas? Going back to the origin of the problem, why else would the Arab countries deviate from the norm of post-war behavior, wherein treaties are signed, and captured territory (and the inhabitants thereof) are returned, after the 1967 war, and instead come up with the Khartoum Resolutions, i.e. no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel, and doom their beloved Palestinian brethren to an indefinite military occupation, or force Israel into formally annexing the territory? Have you not noticed whenever something horrible happens in an Arab country, from natural disasters to somebody saying something insulting about Mohammed on YouTube, the state media always inform the populace that it was the Zionists' fault? Heck, if the American public can be distracted from the suppurating state of their nation by pointing a finger at mysteriously powerful and evil foreign enemies, there's no doubt you can do the same with the citizens of a third world nation that have been deliberately kept in a state of feudalism. See also the book "1984", for the political values of perpetual war.

Ah, but comparing the Israelis to Nazis serves a great purpose, in that it does a lot to salve the still delicate consciences of Europe. "Hey, we're not so bad; look, the Jews are just as bad! Gaza is the world's largest concentration camp!" As if the inhabitants of Auschwitz spent their time firing missiles into the German heartland.

Israel's response to the mostly futile rocket attacks from Gaza tends to be disproportionate but it is obvious Hamas thinks it can get more world support by appearing as victims. It is hard to imagine a more idiotic policy, Hamas leaders need some serious therapy. The world will not come to their aid if Israel's escalates and more misery will descend on the Gaza population for no gain whatsoever.

"Mostly futile" rocket attacks send a million of civilians to shelters several times a day for years now. A family of three was killed in their home couple of days ago. To ask "proportionally" to reply to that is idiotic. It's a war which Islam started against Jews not when Israel was established but when Islam has been established. There is no such thing as a "proportionate" war.

There is such a thing as proportionate war. The US did not use atomic weapons in any of its wars since WWII to give an extreme example.
The last time Israel bombed Gaza it caused massive civilian casualties, many more than were killed by rockets from Gaza.
I am not justifying the rockets, there is no excuse for them,
and I don't question Israel's right to retaliate. But it is not the whole of the Gaza population that is involved in this idiotic
endeavor. A sustained bombing campaign will kill many more Gazans than Israelis will be killed by rockets. One can blame Hamas for this, but it is still Israelis who will be doing the killing.

A cursory examination of history shows that Christians have, generally speaking, hated and attacked Jewish folk much more strenuously than Muslims ever have.
Muslims, often as not, gave Jews safe refuge from angry Europeans. As for America, it has only been in recent decades that Jews were allowed into many clubs, fraternities and organizations, including golf clubs.

But aren't you forgetting History? For many centuries, Islamic states were more accepting and tolerant towards the Jewish people than Christianity ever was? From 8th to 12th centuries, Moorish Al-Andalus - now Spain - accorded full citizenship status to Jews and Christians, as fellow "Children of the Book". It seems it has only been since Israel was established that this situation has changed. Perhaps there is a connection?

Israels problem is that, as an occupying force, it doesn´t have a "right to retaliate". It is responsible for the security of the people of Gaza and as such they are responsible for the policing of the occupied territories. But because it decided to design Gaza legally as a kind of purgatory rather than a status that would release Israel of its obligations it now has to police Gaza with fighter jets and heavy artillery, which really isn´t ideal.

Is there evidence that Israel is carpet bombing civilian areas in order to target civilians?

I suspect that Israel is targeting Hamas military targets that Hamas has locating in civilian areas to increase civilians casualties. Israel has a right to target rocket sites no matter where Hamas locates them. I would say that the onus is on Hamas to not use its civilian population as shields.

The Gaza population elected Hamas to rule them; and the Hamas decided to use this population as a human shield. Israel, on the other hand, won't allow the use of their population as a human target.
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As to the US not using nukes in wars after WW2, it's simple: they didn't need it is all.

But I guess it takes two to tango, as the saying goes. Didn't the Jewish terror militias in Palestine start the process in order to create the state of Israel? This stirred up a lot of hatred across the Arab world, where previously Jews had lived in peace.

As to the caliphates, I'd rather have been a wealthy, secure, comfortable, accepted outsider than a prisoner of the Inquisition.

"Is there evidence that Israel is carpet bombing civilian areas in order to target civilians?"

It doesn't matter what they're targeting. Carpet bombing a civilian population is a bad thing regardless. Even the US leaders in WWII, where there was far more of a moral high ground, will never live down their carpet bombing campaigns, a decision made out of laziness and an unwillingness to accept the inefficiency of the tactic.

It is inane to attempt to justify medieval Islamic dhimmitude by the Catholic Inquisition. The Inquisition was a retrograde authoritarian nightmare and life was probably a little better in medieval Islamic Spain (but still far below modern civil liberties standards), but what the fu#$ does that have to do with the current geopolitics of Israel and Hamas? Its a non sequitur.

Yes, it takes two to tango. And Israel does indeed have fault. But the present casus belli rests on Hamas and its indiscriminate firing of rockets into civilian areas of Israel. Does this mean that Israel doesn't bear an onus to rectify the Palestinian-state issue and restrain the settler movement? No.

Btw, would you want to be a Jew or Christian in present day Gaza under Islamist and Salafist Hamas?

It is inane to attempt to justify medieval Islamic dhimmitude by the Catholic Inquisition. The Inquisition was a retrograde authoritarian nightmare and life was probably a little better in medieval Islamic Spain (but still far below modern civil liberties standards), but what the fu#$ does that have to do with the current geopolitics of Israel and Hamas? Its a non sequitur.

Yes, it takes two to tango. And Israel does indeed have fault. But the present casus belli rests on Hamas and its indiscriminate firing of rockets into civilian areas of Israel. Does this mean that Israel doesn't bear an onus to rectify the Palestinian-state issue and restrain the settler movement? No.

Btw, would you want to be a Jew or Christian in present day Gaza under Islamist and Salafist Hamas?

The stupidity is gaping! Israel isn't carpet bombing and attacking civilians. Hamas is locating their rocket sites in civilian areas. And Israel has a right to attack them. Thus, the onus is on Hamas to move its rocket sites to non-civilian areas. They don't want to do this, because they want child martyrs to film for propaganda purposes.

Does noticing this make me a fan of Israel? No, I'm quite critical of many aspects of current Israeli policies. However, favoring an independent Palestinian state doesn't make me blind to the fault Hamas bears for using its civilians as shields.

Nothing depends on how you go about obtaining your nation. Just for example, Arabs have obtained all their 22 states by sword, and same goes for the biggest part of Moslem nations. The whole proliferation of Islam was by sword.
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But those are just particular examples. As the land owning goes, more than 70% of the Earth landmass IS NOT owned by the original inhabitants. Peoples keep their land IF THEY CAN.
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Yes, a lot of nations meet a lot of problems of different nature. Once again, IF THEY CAN - they resolve them. Rest assured that the Gaza problem which Israel has on her hands now, will be resolved.

Yes, perhaps. But isn't it always so revealing that : the damage done in Palestinian territories including in Gaza always seems massively more extensive than in Israel? Also, if you add up the total casualties on both sides in the past ten years, isn't it telling that the total Israeli casualties are so few, whereas the Palestinian fatalities number in tens of thousands?

On the issue of whose "fault" it is, I find this difficult to assess. After all, what has really been going on all these years is a war between two adversaries - Israel and the Palestinians - over disputed lands, from which the former had to drive the latter to set up its state. As long as the state of war persists, both parties will use whatever means they consider necessary to pursue it. I wouldn't want to play a sort of artificial blame game in this context. It sounds as if one party broke a peace that never has really existed.All that's important really is to find a just resolution to the conflict acceptable to both sides, surely?

Why if add up the total casualties on both sides just in the past ten years? I cannot cite the source now, but if you compare casualties in all Arab-Israeli conflicts, it appears that the Arab ones are about 14 times higher.
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What does it say to you, considering that all of them were initiated by Arabs?
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My conclusion is that all their fingers are thumbs. And that you don't go into a shooting contest with a knife.
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If you are not dumb, that is.

Not so "inane" actually! I was responding to the claim that from its origins Islam has always been anti-Semitic. I see little evidence to support this. In the same way I see little evidence that Judaism or Christianity were always anti-Islamic. I also wasn't trying to "justify" anything - history doesn't work that way for me. The fact remains that certain Moslem states accepted Jews and Christians in ways that for centuries many (but not all) Christian states did not accept Jews or Moslems. Of course the Norman kings of Sicily - who were Christians - had Jewish subjects and were stoutly defended by Moslem battalions!

Well, either you have targeted assassinations, or you have collective punishment. Pick your poison. You can't very well have normal warfare between the Israeli Army and the Gazan Army, can you? Me, I have to say the lesser of the two evils is the targeted assassination, as ugly as that works out to be.

No one notices what’s wrong with the picture in this article? The picture is showing rockets being fired behind building that civilians leave in.
The Hamas blame Israel for targeting civilians, after using civilians as human shields, this is the simple fact.
This is the real war crime here, the Hamas leaders are planning this in advance so that when Israel is using its right to defend itself Hamas will have a better chance of showing dead baby’s on TV. The ones that are looking to blood and dead baby’s are Hamas leaders, they need it and without it they will be shown to what they real are – dictators that the last thing on there mind is there people.
I think that a Nobel prize for cynicism should be awarded in this case

I'd prefer the US to recognize Palestine as its own independent nation and treat Palestinians and Israelis as equals-- and using whatever non-military means at our disposal to force the leaders of both sides to come to terms with their own stupidity.

Regarding war crimes, let’s say for example that a 10 year old attacks you in the street of your home town with a baseball bat. What do you expect to be the verdict in case you have to break his arm in order to take it from him? Are you the one to be blamed for this?

Hmm.... rockets falling on Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Is that what Israel elected Netanyahu for? I understand the hardliners might see this as an opportunity, however, the people must be getting tired of this crap. How about electing leaders who´s interested in a permanent solution to the woes of the israeli and palestinians?

Israel has been in serious trouble for some time now. Do you recall the furor that was had by religious hardliners over Israel trying to repeal the laws that allowed the hardliners to essentially leech off the government without doing any public service at all?

They did. Who do you think sat down to discuss the Oslo Accords, or Camp David? But, as should be obvious to most, and especially to all revolutionaries, it's a lot easier to fight the oppressor than to be in power and keep the streets clean and the electricity turned on. And apparently a lot more lucrative too, judging from the new reports in the Palestinian media themselves, regarding not just Arafat and his cronies, but Hamas as well.
Voters being voters, when the hesitatingly extended hand of peace fails to bring about peace, they will then vote for something different.

"The timing, as the veteran Israeli peace campaigner Gershon Baskin points out, has been peculiar. Baskin, who helped to negotiate the release of kidnapped Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit and communicated through an intermediary with Jabari, alleges that Jabari was preparing to sign a formal ceasefire plan when he was killed."

If the above is correct, Netanyahu assasinated Jabari to prevent peace. I am a disinterested observer of the catastrophe that is Israel/Palestine, but from where I am sitting Netanyahu looks like part of the problem, not part of the solution.

A lot of native South Africans are looking back in a nostalgic reverie to the happy days of bantustans... when ANC fat cats didn't rob them to the hilt, didn't prescribe them to take shower after sex with a stranger as a preventive measure against AIDS... when violence and crime were not unlimited...
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Egypt will never open their borders for Palis, no matter who is in the helm. You know why? Egyptians cannot care less about them. Moreover, they despise them, think of them as some lowlife... and the rest of the Arab world is exactly of the same opinion.

Sure, and a lot of African-Americans must be looking back in nostalgic reverie to the happy days of slavery, where the good master would give them food and shelter, and defoliate their backs from time to time with his whip.

Which is a good case for Hamas either being stupid or seeing the blockade as a politically useful tool to unite the party, but not really a good case that the blockade doesn't exist, if that's what you're attempting to insinuate with the sarcasm quotes.

Yeah, much as Jordan opened up its borders to the West Bank when it annexed it in 1948. Which led to the PLO and its splinter groups setting up the proverbial "state within a state" within Jordan, taking up practices difficult to distinguish from those of organized crime, and eventually attempting to explicitly overthrow the Jordanian government and to assassinate the King. Understandably annoyed, the King instituted "Black September", massacring thousands of Palestinians and driving the PLO out of Jordan. The PLO, in turn, took revenge against Israel, of course.

And yet, after the last Gazan horror, none other than Ehud Barak himself proposed a 30 mile tunnel between the West Bank and Gaza. In fact, every failed atttempt at a treaty between Israel and Palestine has featured a safe corridor connecting the West Bank and Gaza, so the Israelis are willing to go to that length to see peace.

Waging war is the best election campaign in Israel, which clearly shows that Israeli people don’t want peace. Both Israelis and Palestinians seek the peace in annihilation of one-another. Someone should convince them neither could do it in short run; however, Palestinians may have more chance in the long run. Perhaps President Obama would try, but I ma not sure if he could convince either.

What does President Obama have to do with that?
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I remember a lot of indignation from the American commenters when it was suggested (with no solid grounds, I'd add) that PM Netanyahu somehow tried to influence American elections. "The US is a sovereign nation, sod off!" was the collective shriek back then.
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Well, Israel is a sovereign nation too. She will do anything necessary to defend her citizens, full stop. Shelling from the terrorist enclave of Gaza will be not tolerated anymore. Presidents of foreign nations can have an opinion on that, but not sway.

You are quite right: best thing for our President would be to do just nothing, avoid this crap, stay out. There is no oil, nothing to be gained, just nuisance.

Then let the two parties sort it out between themselves ...mmmhh: he who nukes first wins ? really ? What if it becomes a war between two religions ? Ooops, they've been there already some zillions years ago and it wasn't pretty

You are quite right: best thing for our President would be to do just nothing, avoid this crap, stay out. There is no oil, nothing to be gained, just nuisance.

Then let the two parties sort it out between themselves ...mmmhh: he who nukes first wins ? really ? What if it becomes a war between two religions ? Ooops, they've been there already some zillions years ago and it wasn't pretty

"Well, Israel is a sovereign nation too. She will do anything necessary to defend her citizens, full stop. Shelling from the terrorist enclave of Gaza will be not tolerated anymore."

Israel´s already occupying Gaza, so what´s the plan? If Israel had released Gaza completely (no naval blockade or airspace restrictions, and respect Gazas borders) for a sustained period at an earlier stage it would be established as a de-facto sovereign state by now. And any aggression from a sovereign Gaza could be dealt with as one sovereign state (Israel) defending itself from the aggression of another sovereign state (Gaza). One might ask wether a truly sovereign Gaza would use its freedom in such a way (especially if The West Bank was a sovereign state as well, or part of the same palestinian state). However, now Israel is responsible for the security of both the Israeli citizens and the palestinians living in the occupied territories. It´s a raw deal, and I can´t understand how the israeli people can accept this from their leaders.

To be a sovereign nation you should be able to survive on your own, means without America’s strong economic and military support. Israel must understand that America cannot fight forever Israel’s war, neither Israel can continue. Israel must prepare to live in peace with its neighbors. For President W Bush Israel was a political rod. Obama administration is its best chance to achieve peace if Israeli politicians can seize it.

What a memory! That's nearly two weeks ago. Your 'adding' that Netanyahoo didn't try to influence the US election doesn`t make it so. Oh, I see...You didn't say he didn't, you said there was no grounds to the suggestion that he did. You win. Keep talking like that...

Cut this crap about occupying Gaza and, especially Judea and Samaria, wudya? The naval and airspace blockade of the terrorist enclave of Gaza is perfectly legal, if it wanted peace it would have had it long time ago.
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As to Judea and Samaria, including the eternal indivisible capital of the Jews - Jerusalem, it's simply Israel. With some pesky guests here and there forgetting to return to their homes in Syria, Egypt, Jordan and where not... but Eretz Isroel nevertheless. Israel occupying Israel? What an absurd notion!
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Oh, and something about Israelis accepting or not different things. They'll sort off their relationship with their leaders without your intellectual assistance, thank you very much. But no matter who their leaders are and whether you approve of them or not, they'll not accept shelling from Gaza anymore. Just wait another couple of days and see.

Half thinking is worse than no thinking at all. That's your case.
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I understand you're fascinated by Netanyahu... what is it, an adolescent crash? But let me tell you something: you mightily overestimate your hero. However he behaves, even if he manages to behave like not 21st century statesman, but 23d, he wouldn't be capable of solving this mess peacefully or otherwise ALONE. He needs - like any other statesman - a counterpart prepared to resolve this mess together with him also peacefully. Try for a second to get rid of your fantasy image of almighty Netaniahu and tell me who's this counterpart now, and - since you're homemade prophesier - in a couple of years time?

I wonder what would happen in USA, or Britain, or... you can continue the list at will, if the population of any of their prisons started to launch primitive, but nevertheless deadly "firecrackers" over the wall?
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Well, no inmates even in Kenya can do that, but just for the discussion's sake? Right, they'd be smashed, and not after 8 years of shelling but on the first instance.
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That leaves us with two alternative conclusions: either Gazans are not prisoners and Gaza isn't a prizon; or you peddle propaganda crap. Actually, why alternative? Both are right on the mark.

Just to please you, Ric - yes, Israelis are freedom fighters. They fight for their freedom, and always did. As to the Pals, they just wore the disguise of freedom fighters, because they always were free - to go. Part of them did exactly this in 1948. The wiser part, to be fair.

"That leaves us with two alternative conclusions: either Gazans are not prisoners and Gaza isn't a prizon; or you peddle propaganda crap. Actually, why alternative? Both are right on the mark."
I love a feisty punchline as much as the next guy, but that just doesn´t maker sense. You put a badly craftet statement up as "two alternative conclusions" to reveal that you think both are right, which isn´t that odd since both depend on each other rather than oppose each other as "two alternative conclusions" would. You´re tired dear RP.
BTW tirnanog33, those aren´t firecrackers.

"It's like the prisoners in a vast jail throwing firecrackers over the wall at their Israeli guards, and the response is to terrorise and murder the prison population."
Except for the part where the firecrackers kill 60 of the guards.

Gaza will always be a thorn in Israel's side.
The inhabitants are clearly being encouraged to leave but they have nowhere else to go.
So why not just a drop a small tactical Nuke on them all.?
Problem solved.

There is this myth about the Israel-Palestine conflict that says it´s unsolvable. It´s too complex. But the solution is simple. As long as Israel insists on anything less than full sovereignty for the palestinians, an enduring peace is off the table. If Israel releases Palestine from its grip it will no longer be responsible for it. Palestinians will have the opportunity to enter the community of sovereign states (either as a united Palestine or as a west bank state and a Gazan state) and handle their affairs within this new realm of freedom and opportunity.

The heart of the issue is the Gaza militants arsenal of missiles which they use indiscriminately on southern Israel. But in order to destroy the rocket arsenal there will inevitably be civilian casualties because the Gazans hide them in civilian locations; they use there own people as human shields. So, it behooves us as onlookers to be less condemning toward Israel than we were during Cast Lead.
Therefore, get the job done as precisely and cleanly as possible. Do whatever is necessary to clean out the stockpiles of munitions and rockets launchers, and I for one support Israels right to self defense.