Jesus christ Kangodo how do you live with yourself posting this kind of weak stuff? I even acknowledged that races like Gnomes have always been silly, Warcraft has always had a measure of silliness, that wasn't my argument.

Taurent did NOT start off like that. If that would have been their original presentation you can be sure as hell I would have went "WTF is this?" when I first saw it. It was added later on for World of Warcraft just like units have funny things to say when you click on them many times in the RTS.

Tauren had presence and presentation when they first made their appearance, and it followed through with the WoW cinematic and in-game lore, regardless of their on the side complementary silly stuff. They're a proud and noble race and were so before they got a million Native American references in WoW and a silly dance.

Pandaren got a bad introduction, a bad re-introduction, some awesome artwork, a good cinematic presence, then the whole thing felt like it fell flat for that actual in-game introduction.

You're just taking the least significant and unrelated portion of the game and trying to pass it off as an entire argument.

Gnomes and Dwarves are the only redeeming factor for Alliance! lol. Every other alliance race just looks stupid.

Which is exactly my point!
Pandaren have tons of dark, interesting and mature things on them.
But people can't stop focusing on ONE quest-hub with rabbits and the name of a racial-trait.

If we are talking about Pandaren then one small thing is suddenly enough to ruin the entire expansion.
But Kobolds and the other million jokes in other expansions was never a problem.
That seems like a gigantic bias, some people just want to dislike MoP and there is no discussion possible.

Maybe I can spell it out again: Some people don't agree with you.
Some people don't think that their presentation or the delivery failed and they think they do fit in this game.

No you don't have a point. You're just taking the last phrase of each of my posts completely ignoring all previous statements which show wrong you were in your previous post. I'm done wasting my time with you.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Compstance

Gnomes and Dwarves are the only redeeming factor for Alliance! lol. Every other alliance race just looks stupid.

No you don't have a point. You're just taking the last phrase of each of my posts completely ignoring all previous statements which show wrong you were in your previous post. I'm done wasting my time with you.

I DO have a point and I skipped the rest of your post because I have no interest in derailing this thread by discussing the 'maturity' of Tauren.
I like Panren and their implementation, others like Pandaren and how they are in the game.
We don't need some random persons on the internet making fun of us because we have a different opinion on something.
And that's my problem with these threads, they all follow the same steps:
Someone claims Pandaren don't fit > I disagree > He tells me I am wrong and uses examples from the game > I still disagree > They start attacking and ridiculing me.
Get it now?

The more I play, the more I realize this was the most complex and mature presentation of their brand of fantasy that they have done yet. Somehow it had more weight than a demonic invasion. It seems like they realized their audiences overall age has gotten older over the years, which is common sense, but the fact that they are developing for it is great.

I'm glad they have the good sense to be able to balance whimsical ideas that can be throwbacks to our younger years with pretty mature themes in a very emotive landscape for their developers. I hope they realize how great what they have designed is even against the sub loss and ever growing age of internet nerd ragery.

The more I play, the more I realize this was the most complex and mature presentation of their brand of fantasy that they have done yet. Somehow it had more weight than a demonic invasion. It seems like they realized their audiences overall age has gotten older over the years, which is common sense, but the fact that they are developing for it is great.

I'm glad they have the good sense to be able to balance whimsical ideas that can be throwbacks to our younger years with pretty mature themes in a very emotive landscape for their developers. I hope they realize how great what they have designed is even against the sub loss and ever growing age of internet nerd ragery.

Warcraft 3 was far more mature without insulting itself by introducing characters which downtalked to everyone as if we were all retarded and they were the supreme authority of the universe. Through Thrall and Jaina, we saw everything we saw in pandaria, minus all the extra unnecessary sugarcoating and feeling that we were being treated as bloodthirsty idiots with no intelligence. Ironically, this was also the game where pandaren appeared.

Warcraft 3 was far more mature without insulting itself by introducing characters which downtalked to everyone as if we were all retarded and they were the supreme authority of the universe. Through Thrall and Jaina, we saw everything we saw in pandaria, minus all the extra unnecessary sugarcoating and. Ironically, this was also the game where pandaren appeared.

In your opinion sure wc3 was more mature. It still had all the sillyness their games have (in my opinion).

Personally I think MOP has struck a balance on Mature/family friendly theme. Sure there are plenty of parodies and such while at the same time there are lots of darker elements. I have personally enjoyed the lore behind this expansion and the presentation of it both in AND out of game (the emperor animation stuff was very well done).

In your opinion sure wc3 was more mature. It still had all the sillyness their games have (in my opinion).

Personally I think MOP has struck a balance on Mature/family friendly theme. Sure there are plenty of parodies and such while at the same time there are lots of darker elements. I have personally enjoyed the lore behind this expansion and the presentation of it both in AND out of game (the emperor animation stuff was very well done).

I've stated about 3 times so far in this thread that I have nothing against silliness, and that's it's inherent to all Warcraft games ever since the clicking stuff lots of times to hear funny quotes and exploding sheep in Warcraft 2, however that silliness didn't really intrude in the main storyline and lore, it was on the side while playing the levels.

As you say though, pandaria struck a balance between mature/family friendly, which Warcraft didn't use to try to be as far as I remember. You'd never hear dads tell their kids "come on now children, gather around to see Arthas murder his father in cold blood."

Pandaren got a bad introduction, a bad re-introduction, some awesome artwork, a good cinematic presence, then the whole thing felt like it fell flat for that actual in-game introduction.

I disagree. If anything, they went way overboard with seeding the pandaren; most races get a handful of quests and a starting zone, then maintain a token presence throughout the rest of the world... if that. Pandaren got an entire continent's worth of lore and backstory, not even counting the giant turtle island and stuff. Pandaren have a spectacular plethora of lore available now, more so than many other playable races.

The only thing they're lacking in is the Huojin and Tushui factions, which were both poorly implemented and boast no relevance beyond a cute blurb and their leaders' Romeo and Juliet love story. Especially the Horde one. My little panda wanted to pay that psychotic megalomaniac warchief his lip service and run right back to the turtle after meeting him, not join Mordor's standing army and swear to kill everyone who had better sense than she did.

I've stated about 3 times so far in this thread that I have nothing against silliness, and that's it's inherent to all Warcraft games ever since the clicking stuff lots of times to hear funny quotes and exploding sheep in Warcraft 2, however that silliness didn't really intrude in the main storyline and lore, it was on the side while playing the levels.

As you say though, pandaria struck a balance between mature/family friendly, which Warcraft didn't use to try to be as far as I remember. You'd never hear dads tell their kids "come on now children, gather around to see Arthas murder his father in cold blood."

Yeh I think its fair to say they struck a balance between seriousness and fun/silly in this expansion. I think thats part of the allure of the expansion for me. It was about fun and exploration. We have had 2 back to back expansions of "I AM ENDING THE WORLD" while TBC had a villain and a clear one it still had some exploration feel to it and didnt feel like the world would end until KJ turned up.

I don't understand why you feel the need to make excuses for MoP, or pretend people didn't love it.
It's been very widely well received, unsurprisingly, it is a very good expansion, with lots of lore, content and Pandaria is damned pretty.

Your attempt at arguing against my opinion has completely revolutionized my way of thinking and I now see that you are so right! Why I would ever think for myself and hold my own views that are different than yours is beyond me at this point. From now on you can form all my opinions on World of Warcraft and I'm gong to unsub. Thank you for your help.

Oh wait, I happen to have my own opinion and I expressed it. There's nothing to argue with. I've been wanting to send them a good message commending them on a job well done, maybe I'll do it today in your honor. Great expansion is great. Great story is great. Great design is great.

Not enough superlatives in the world to disagree with you on the appropriate level. Sincere thank you for reinforcing how pleasurable it is to simply enjoy something, especially when other people try to convince others they should hate it. I'll hug a Pandaren or two for you today.

Your attempt at arguing against my opinion has completely revolutionized my way of thinking and I now see that you are so right! Why I would ever think for myself and hold my own views that are different than yours is beyond me at this point. From now on you can form all my opinions on World of Warcraft and I'm gong to unsub. Thank you for your help.

Oh wait, I happen to have my own opinion and I expressed it. There's nothing to argue with. I've been wanting to send them a good message commending them on a job well done, maybe I'll do it today in your honor. Great expansion is great. Great story is great. Great design is great.

Not enough superlatives in the world to disagree with you on the appropriate level. Sincere thank you for reinforcing how pleasurable it is to simply enjoy something, especially when other people try to convince others they should hate it. I'll hug a Pandaren or two for you today.

Believe it or not I actually have a level 90 pandaren female rogue because I think it looks really cool in Van Cleef tier armor. Would I be really sad if they decided to retcon pandaren tomorrow and I'd lose my rogue? Just a bit disappointed, because I feel no attachment to their lore otherwise. They've taught me nothing that Thrall and Jaina didn't try to teach me already, and they've done nothing to inspire me as a Warcraft race.

The only reason I answered your post was because I felt this line "I hope they realize how great what they have designed is even against the sub loss and ever growing age of internet nerd ragery." implied that those of us critiquing it are nothing but nerd ragers, which I tried to demonstrate is not true through what I hope was reasonable language and temperament in my response..

The only reason I answered your post was because I felt this line "I hope they realize how great what they have designed is even against the sub loss and ever growing age of internet nerd ragery." implied that those of us critiquing it are nothing but nerd ragers, which I tried to demonstrate is not true through what I hope was reasonable language and temperament in my response..

So you made an assumption, which was not true, then responded based on that? Why am I not surprised? It was a general statement aimed at no one in particular. Especially given the fact that I didn't quote anyone, but felt like giving my positive opinion of something, you can see how even with seemingly reasonable language it was a little uncalled for.

Especially after you pretty much argued against everyone's opinion for the entire last few pages. Let's not be coy here. I like Pandaren and this entire expansion just fine and wasn't talking to you in any way. Arguing against my opinion wasn't necessary. We can agree to disagree and be on our way.

PS: Saying the 'age of nerd ragery' pretty much is a direct statement that I'm talking about a very general concept. So it seems like you just wanted to pick another fight in your battle for this thread.

I sit with the feeling that Pandaria would be an excellent spin-off to WoW tbh. I don't think it deserves a place within the WoW MMO though. But that is my personal opinion, I don't mind the teddybears and the expansion will end, bringing us a theme that hopefully will be more fitting in my eyes. Mind you, I am a lore fanatic and it is due to lore reasons and lore direction I feel they don't fit as a part of this current game. If WoW2 was released tomorrow, I would bring in both Pandaria as a Zone AND Pandaren as a neutral, playable race. But I wouldn't do it now, simply because I don't feel it's story relevant.

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

So you made an assumption, which was not true, then responded based on that? Why am I not surprised? It was a general statement aimed at no one in particular. Especially given the fact that I didn't quote anyone, but felt like giving my positive opinion of something, you can see how even with seemingly reasonable language it was a little uncalled for.

Especially after you pretty much argued against everyone's opinion for the entire last few pages. Let's not be coy here. I like Pandaren and this entire expansion just fine and wasn't talking to you in any way. Arguing against my opinion wasn't necessary. We can agree to disagree and be on our way.

PS: Saying the 'age of nerd ragery' pretty much is a direct statement that I'm talking about a very general concept. So it seems like you just wanted to pick another fight in your battle for this thread.

I've only started posting in this thread today I haven't been battling for it for the past 15 pages before 18. That aside, let's agree to disagree as you say. Just for the record, I specifically typed "...I felt this line "quote" implied..." to imply that I might be wrong about it, and that you weren't implying anything, and it turns out I was indeed wrong about my feeling, which I admit.

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

― C.S. Lewis

C.S. Lewis, so much more eloquent than anything i could ever come up with!