"We don't have anything whatsoever on the table in terms of a trade, or anything even remotely close to a trade, for Rip Hamilton,'' Dumars told FanHouse Tuesday. "Nothing.''

"He knows I went through exactly what he's experiencing now, and that helps,'' Dumars said. "It's tough for anyone who has been at the top, and then finds himself not competing at that level. It's tough for any athlete.''

"He wants to win. He understands the situation. He understands we've had an incredibly long run, and we need to revamp,'' Dumars said. "But he has not come to me and said one word (about wanting to be traded). I think he wants to see it get turned around here soon.''

Richard Hamilton - owed $12.65 million: Richard Hamilton is the player that makes the most sense to trade in Detroit, yet deal after deal is turned away by the Pistons.

Sources close to the situation say that Joe Dumars values Richard far more than he should and as a result he has placed such a premium on what he'd want in return for Rip its almost crazy.

There is a reality approaching. The team is for sale and the Pistons are no closer to a playoff berth than they were last year for a lot of the same reasons.

If the Pistons are going to make a meaningful change, Richard Hamilton has to be part of it.
The problem is no one around the Pistons believes Joe Dumars will trigger a deal involving Rip unless it returns a real All-Star and he's not worth that in trade, especially not with three more seasons at $12.65 million per left on his deal.
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most probably offers are &quot;various versions of sixth player of the year&quot; and Pistons already has those types ( stuckey, villaneuva, TMAC???) with overpayed salary as Rip's.

I'm absolutely sure that for &quot;promising big man&quot; 1st round picks are demanded, and either daye or jerebko.

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You don't see the point, Rip is holding up the team moving forward, we've all accepted the idea of sucking, but to suck with Daye glued to the bench or playing out of position or to suck because Ben Gordon can only get 4 shots in a game!!!!!! Rip isn't the reason why we suck, but he's part of the problem, it's time to move forward. FIRE JOE, he can't get it done anymore, I think it's clear he's lost his objectivity.

You don't see the point, Rip is holding up the team moving forward, we've all accepted the idea of sucking, but to suck with Daye glued to the bench or playing out of position or to suck because Ben Gordon can only get 4 shots in a game!!!!!! Rip isn't the reason why we suck, but he's part of the problem, it's time to move forward. FIRE JOE, he can't get it done anymore, I think it's clear he's lost his objectivity.

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you simply "can't get rid of Rip" nobody wants his contract before lockout, that's why I said in my previous post that IMO most trade propositions offer similar contracts back. If you want to get rid of Rip right now, you have to sweeten the deal with 1st round picks, etc.

Rip is the team's major anvil. If we could comfortably hold onto him until Feb 2012, he'll be very tradeable as he'll technically be on an expiring contract -2012-2013 is only $3 mil guaranteed. The problem is he's becoming a huge distraction for this team. He hates playing with this loser group - he gets kicked out of games periodically because he has a 2004 mentality temper - he doesn't fit what the team needs anymore - he just doesn't try all that hard 100% of the time like he used to - and he's totally blocking the full integration of BG and Daye's development. Oh yeah, he's playing terrible BB and isn't even shooting a high percentage anymore. (Stuckey gets to line up with him, Ben Wallace, Maxiell and Tay - and we really expect him to run the team smoothly? Really? Let's wake up please. With this crap lineup, Stuckey's got crap to work with. It's amazing his stat line is as good as it is.)

The problem is it will be very painful holding onto him. Too bad his attitude stinks.

Personally, I'd deep bench him. A bad choice but possibly the best choice under the circumstances.

Agreed. Dumars needs to go. Not only has he not made any moves to improve this team in the last 4 years but one could argue that the moves he's made have actually done more harm than good. Successful franchises retool but remain competitive (San Antonio is the prime example, they've remained competitive while making changes to their roster to adapt to a decline in the skill level of their players or need to keep up with their main competition). The Pistons? Traded their all-star PG for cap space which Joe used on Ben Gordon and CV when we already had a starting SG and IMO could have hung on to Amir to see how he'd develop rather than overpay for CV.

Instead of remaining competitive this franchise has once again sunk to the depths of the NBA. I'm not one of those fans who claims I could have done a better job that Dumars but at the same time I don't see how anyone can claim he knows what he's doing at this point.

Agreed. Dumars needs to go. Not only has he not made any moves to improve this team in the last 4 years but one could argue that the moves he's made have actually done more harm than good. Successful franchises retool but remain competitive (San Antonio is the prime example, they've remained competitive while making changes to their roster to adapt to a decline in the skill level of their players or need to keep up with their main competition). The Pistons? Traded their all-star PG for cap space which Joe used on Ben Gordon and CV when we already had a starting SG and IMO could have hung on to Amir to see how he'd develop rather than overpay for CV.

Instead of remaining competitive this franchise has once again sunk to the depths of the NBA. I'm not one of those fans who claims I could have done a better job that Dumars but at the same time I don't see how anyone can claim he knows what he's doing at this point.

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Who, Amir - you mean the guy who started for Toronto last night in their win, going 5-5 and 4-4 at the free throw line - with 9 rebounds? That guy? But then again, Afflalo has been starting for Denver for ages now. And all for making room for Wilcox, who has yet to play hardly at all. Now, actually, if you look at the two things separately, with the Amir / Afflalo fiasco separated from the fiasco of loading us with two starting shooting guards, it ain't as bad.

Amir should be starting aside Ben Wallace right now, with guys like CV and JMAX getting spot minutes after Monroe. Not that bad a setup.

And Afflalo, not Ben Gordon, should be our other guard, vastly shoring up our perimeter D. (Along with Amir, who is excellent at helping on the perimeter for a big.) But say we had both yet, to Afflalo's detriment. You would have to have a coach who keeps Rip's and Gordon's minutes down, and forcing Gordon to play the point - but you could still have Afflalo giving us a lot of good work out on the perimeter. Depth don't hurt.

So basically, between the two moves - getting nothing in return for letting Amir and Afflalo go has to be the silliest thing Dumar's has done lately.

10. Moving Corliss Williamson for cap space following the 2004 championship season. Corliss, in key games, like in the playoffs when it counts, gave us excellent post scoring. Not easily replaced. Note, I have railed against this move since it happened. Not talking hindsight here.

9. Letting Milicic go for nothing after he asked for a trade. Look, no other GM has a policy of giving away players just because they ask for a trade. And neither should Dumars. Bad business.

8. Drafting Rodney White at 9, as a young snot nosed kid - and then never getting anything for him in trade since we would not play him - because he was a young snot nosed kid.

7. Refusing to let Brian Cardinal play in our rotation in the year before Carlisle got here.

Man, I was a big fan of Corliss and hated that move too. He was our FG% leader in the Championship year. A guy with actual post moves, which is a lost art.

What about taking a pass on Okur... who ended up being an all-star center in the Western Conference (not exactly a lightweight)? A career .380 3-point shooting 7 footer! Good job drafting him, bad job letting him go. You gotta make room for talented bigs since they are extremely rare.

Tremaine Fowlkes got almost twice as many minutes in 2004 than our #2 draft pick.

Joe is the anti Rambis. He has no appreciation for big man development.