Verno wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 09:07:The vanilla Skyrim experience is a really average game and is a bit of a technical mess, you pretty much need to extensively mod it IMO.

I amiably disagree -- the design elements of the giant game looks great (especially the dwarven areas) and there's plenty of variety in the landmass. I dont like at all the melee combat which is basically whack-a-mole. But the magic combat rocks.

My biggest complaint is that the game is too easy about 8 hours in and mods do help with that.

Verno wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 09:07:The vanilla Skyrim experience is a really average game and is a bit of a technical mess, you pretty much need to extensively mod it IMO.

I agree, I wouldn't really know what an unmodded version plays like, well I do, but I mod asap. I would say I mod for functionality, not for gfx or technical reasons.

I always wondered why they didn't come out with a free DLC that looks at the most popular features and then adds them into the main game. There is one mod, don't recall that has literally 50+ game balancing features you can adjust. That should just be built right into the game.

Krovven wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 21:18:It's stuff like this that baffles me in a sandbox game. Why would you have a trigger to spawn the dragon after I met quest requirements, when I could easily find the place if I'm just exploring near the starting area?

Yep have that, imo still not close to a skill bar. I would discuss more, but nda'd.

1. NDA'd on a 2 year old game?

2. You're real name is Horrorscope, so you fear being found out?

Not talking about Skyrim on the NDA, but reference to another game like Skyrim but added a power bar and it helps tremendously. Just think about it.... if you had Skyrim as-is and then could place 10 additional magic skills on a power bar to use on a press of a key. That will surely give you more immediate options. Nothing to complex to figure. Being a Single Player game I'd even offer an option for a few power bars to toggle.

The vanilla Skyrim experience is a really average game and is a bit of a technical mess, you pretty much need to extensively mod it IMO. I am rarely running less than 50 mods when I play, most are minor tweaks but they add up to a much better RPG with less crashes and jank. The balance in the game is utterly broken without mods too.

I just wish Bethesda would hire some better animators and take a serious go at the combat engine again, their games feel so stiff and clunky compared to stuff like Dark Souls. The eastern dev houses have their weaknesses but damned if they don't do the best combat stuff in videogames.

I am (was) playing on the difficulty one below the hardest. At first I was on normal, but kept increasing it until it gave me a challenge without being a grind. Taking the skill perks in smithing is a waste in the vanilla game. As you level up smithing you can just keep improving the basic leather armor making it equal to or better than the next available armor, eventually to the point where you hit the armor rating around 570 at which there is no point going higher. Any armor rating above that doesn't do you any good because of the DR cap at 80% and lack of degradation. The only perks worth taking in smithing are the one that allows you to improve enchanted armor, and then you are better off investing skill points in enchanting. You can enchant various things to improve your armor skill which will allow you to improve your weapons as well as if you'd taken the smithing perk. Plus now you can enchant your armor with different resistances, and give your weapons offensive enchantments.

There isn't really any character building in Skyrim like there is in a real RPG, the game just adapts to how you play. I liked the idea at first of gaining skill and leveling by using the skills, but after playing it, I prefer the traditional RPG method of gaining XP to level up and spending skill points to "build" your character.

sdgundamx wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 22:17:I'm about equal with you with number of hours played and still haven't finished the main story. I spend most of my time tinkering with different character builds. For example, how about an archer that only uses poisons and a bound bow? How about a wizard who only uses staves to cast? etc.

I'm surprised about your comments about smithing. Are you playing on Master or Legendary difficulty? Smithing is most certainly not wasted perks on those difficulty settings, as you'll need the increased firepower/protection pretty early on to survive if you're a melee-type character.

jimnms wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 19:08:I can top that. I have 377 hours without finishing it. Not all of that is actual game play. A lot of that is testing mods screwing around....[snip]

[/snip]...Having realized I wasted skills in the smithing tree was the final straw. I quit out of frustration with the game. I've gone back to it a few times. I'll update my current mods, install some new ones, play around a little, but then never stick with it...

Quinn wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 17:44:"Skyrim was developed for the XBox first and foremost", really? What, because the UI was so retarded? You simply cannot claim that. Apart from the inv system, the game is an absolute jewel from the PC gamer point of view, since vanilla day one. Great visuals, great performance, great gameplay. Trust me, Skyrim is one of the few games out there that was built for the PC the moment the first brainstorm session marked it's conception.

Bullcrap.

FOV in vanilla is shocking, poor support for widescreen/surround, crappy textures etc designed for the limitations of the PS3 and XBox360.

There are 4 unofficial fix up patches which resolve most of the CTD issues (and aren't available to console users), and a number of mods which replace the junk in game textures etc with crisp clear HD ones. Completely replaced water system, weather effects etc.

I run the game with all these mods + max details + 6080x1200 surround resolution. This is only possible via mods (otherwise I'm stuck with a single monitor, shitty FOV etc). The game was not engineered for the PC because you can see the hard limits coded directly in to the game which ignore 90% of what a PC can actually do.

This. Skyrim was not a good port. Aside from the lousy UI, the port was poorly optimized and ran way worse than it should have (though they eventually improved this through patching). It also didn't support more than 2 gigs of RAM (this was eventually patched as well). All of BGS's games have lead on X360 since Oblivion. Todd Howard even stated as much during an interview.

Krovven wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 21:18:It's stuff like this that baffles me in a sandbox game. Why would you have a trigger to spawn the dragon after I met quest requirements, when I could easily find the place if I'm just exploring near the starting area?

Yep have that, imo still not close to a skill bar. I would discuss more, but nda'd.

Quinn wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 17:44:"Skyrim was developed for the XBox first and foremost", really? What, because the UI was so retarded? You simply cannot claim that. Apart from the inv system, the game is an absolute jewel from the PC gamer point of view, since vanilla day one. Great visuals, great performance, great gameplay. Trust me, Skyrim is one of the few games out there that was built for the PC the moment the first brainstorm session marked it's conception.

Bullcrap.

FOV in vanilla is shocking, poor support for widescreen/surround, crappy textures etc designed for the limitations of the PS3 and XBox360.

There are 4 unofficial fix up patches which resolve most of the CTD issues (and aren't available to console users), and a number of mods which replace the junk in game textures etc with crisp clear HD ones. Completely replaced water system, weather effects etc.

I run the game with all these mods + max details + 6080x1200 surround resolution. This is only possible via mods (otherwise I'm stuck with a single monitor, shitty FOV etc). The game was not engineered for the PC because you can see the hard limits coded directly in to the game which ignore 90% of what a PC can actually do.

Creston wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 17:18:I found the UI just as terrible with a controller, to be honest. It isn't the actual controlling part of the UI, but the horrendously limited amount of information it conveys, and the manner in which it does so.

Let's hope Bethesda, after making 300 hojillion dollars off the PC version of Skyrim, will put some more fucking effort into the PC version for both FO4 and ES6.

eg. Even using SkyUI + the WSGF surround fix + sorter, there is still no easy or intuitive way to figure out that you have a damn disease apart from the fact your carry weight has dropped dramatically...

A simple character pane with a ragdoll and stats attached to it would convey all the information required, but noooooo!

sdgundamx wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 22:17:I'm about equal with you with number of hours played and still haven't finished the main story. I spend most of my time tinkering with different character builds. For example, how about an archer that only uses poisons and a bound bow? How about a wizard who only uses staves to cast? etc.

I've played the Fallouts and Skyrim multiple times (I'm on a Skyrim replay right now). I always finish the main quests the first time through but usually don't finish them on subsequent runs. I actually really enjoy building my character, getting him to be the best I possibly can as soon as possible, then once that's done I lose interest. As much as I love New Vegas the main quest is incredibly boring. Hate the casinos, hate the Mr. House story line, I always stop playing when I get to those points. But building my character, trying different perks and specialties - that never gets old.

Jerykk wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 17:24:I don't know if Bethesda is capable of making good UI, PC or otherwise. Their only interest is making UI that looks cool, with little to no regard for speed or efficiency.

Yeah that is really its flaw atm. A nice power bar would be appreciated so I can use more skills, especially magic skills at once. I have all these skills but it is so laborious to get to them to use.

I believe you can add hotkeys to swap weapons, use spells, etc, so you don't need to use the UI. Just look around, I probably even have it in the link to the forums talking about all of the tweaks, etc.

Krovven wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 21:18:It's stuff like this that baffles me in a sandbox game. Why would you have a trigger to spawn the dragon after I met quest requirements, when I could easily find the place if I'm just exploring near the starting area?

Yep have that, imo still not close to a skill bar. I would discuss more, but nda'd.

Krovven wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 21:18:It's stuff like this that baffles me in a sandbox game. Why would you have a trigger to spawn the dragon after I met quest requirements, when I could easily find the place if I'm just exploring near the starting area?

Yep have that, imo still not close to a skill bar. I would discuss more, but nda'd.

That's too simplistic a statement, there are certain styles of games that majorly benefits from mods, mostly sandbox style games. In fact, locking down the base game from mods + pumping out dlc and microtransactions is becoming the norm. Games like BF4, Borderlands 2, COD, Sims 3, Crysis 3, etc...

People will happily spend $15 for a map pack that use to be free with mods. Also, there are no mods on consoles so a lot of companies will not even bother to support it on the pc side.

Your point about why DLC is popular is completely valid but I have to agree with Bats - mods >>>>>> dlc. Mods strengthen a game's community; dlc will often splinter it. I'm not against dlc; quite the contrary actually. I have bought hundreds of dollars' worth of it. But if the base game is solid I think great mod tools is a better investment for the publisher in the long run. Battlefield 2 is still being modded and is still hugely popular. Battlefield 3 was largely locked down and will be long forgotten while BF2 will still be going strong.

This comment was edited on Dec 1, 2013, 22:38.

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” - Mahatma Gandhi

Absolutely agree with you about the exploration aspect. All the hours I've played and I still come across things that I never noticed before (hidden chests in dungeons or high up on wilderness mountains, side quests I never new were even there, etc.). I haven't picked up Dragonborn yet and I'm really looking forward to that feeling of not knowing what's around the next corner.

About Ancient's Ascent, it sounds like it was a bug. Before you do the main quest, there are either bandits or other mobs (Wisp Mother's, skeletons, etc.) guarding the word walls. I kind of understand why they limited the first dragon appearance to the main story line--they wanted to have NPCs on hand to explain about the dragon soul absorption and using shouts rather than just some tool-tip box telling you about it. Plus that first fight is pretty dramatic. A couple of Whiterun guards usually get eaten before the end of it and I always get a chuckle out of looting the dragon only to find Whiterun guard armor and shields in its belly. It's too bad that the dragon fights quickly become so boring. I have far more tense encounters with giants (who will one-hit kill you at lower levels) and bandit chiefs wielding two-handed weapons than when fighting dragons.

Krovven wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 21:18:A friend of mine, is almost 1000 hours into Skyrim. Yes, you read that right, 1000 hours, 982 specifically. I'm sure he will hit the 1000 mark sometime this upcoming week.

I've been holding off on Skyrim for a long time. Batman bought it for me as I was still sitting on the fence about getting it. If it wasn't for mods, I'd probably find it unplayable. How some of these things were not done by Bethesda just astounds me. The biggest problem with Skyrim is that there are too many mods due to severe design deficiencies from Bethesda. So instead of mods focusing on adding excellent content, mod authors have had to spend a lot of time on trying to improve the gameplay and GUI.

I've got 31 mods installed right now and I'd have more if my computer could handle graphical mods. And if I ever finish 1 playthrough, I'm sure I'll add more mods to increase immersion. As it is, I've been adding a mod here and there as I play.

Horror, if you use SkyUI, skills and items you add to Favorites you can bind to the number keys for quick access and use. While it's not a power bar...it's close enough.

Edit: What I like most is the exploration. ie: last night I came across the Pinewatch house, found the hidden door and made my way through. Killing the bandits, stealing their loot, through the traps (that was a bit weak), and stole the treasure. Loved it. This is why I like games like this.

On the flipside. Prior to Pinewatch I had found Ancients Ascent and got the Dragon Word. Problem was, there was no dragon protecting it (yet I could hear him flapping his wings from down the mountain at the burnt out hovel). Talking to my friend, the dragon wasn't there because I hadn't progressed the main storyline yet by going to Whiterun, and the dragon will show up there once I do.

It's stuff like this that baffles me in a sandbox game. Why would you have a trigger to spawn the dragon after I met quest requirements, when I could easily find the place if I'm just exploring near the starting area?

I'm about equal with you with number of hours played and still haven't finished the main story. I spend most of my time tinkering with different character builds. For example, how about an archer that only uses poisons and a bound bow? How about a wizard who only uses staves to cast? etc.

I'm surprised about your comments about smithing. Are you playing on Master or Legendary difficulty? Smithing is most certainly not wasted perks on those difficulty settings, as you'll need the increased firepower/protection pretty early on to survive if you're a melee-type character.

jimnms wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 19:08:

Dirwulf wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 15:44:I wonder how many people actually finished the main story in Skyrim. I have 71 hours invested in that game, and I didn't even get close. Maybe 71 hours isn't that much. I just got bored with the game. It's the same shit over and over and over and over and over...

I can top that. I have 377 hours without finishing it. Not all of that is actual game play. A lot of that is testing mods screwing around....[snip]

[/snip]...Having realized I wasted skills in the smithing tree was the final straw. I quit out of frustration with the game. I've gone back to it a few times. I'll update my current mods, install some new ones, play around a little, but then never stick with it...

Quinn wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 17:44:"Skyrim was developed for the XBox first and foremost", really? What, because the UI was so retarded? You simply cannot claim that. Apart from the inv system, the game is an absolute jewel from the PC gamer point of view, since vanilla day one. Great visuals, great performance, great gameplay. Trust me, Skyrim is one of the few games out there that was built for the PC the moment the first brainstorm session marked it's conception.

Yeah, I'm going to go with no on that. UI built for a controller aside, the game featured very low-res textures (to the point that Bethesda released a high(er) res texture pack for the PC later on) and had several terrible coding inefficiencies in it that caused major performance issues on the PC. It wasn't until the modding community modded those issues out that Bethesda put those same fixes in their actual patches.

The game was not developed for the PC. It was probably developed ON a PC, but it was made with the lowest common denominator (the PS3) in mind.

Hopefully Skyrim's unprecedented success on the PC will make them change their minds for the next game. Probably not, but who knows.

Quinn wrote on Dec 1, 2013, 17:44:"Skyrim was developed for the XBox first and foremost", really? What, because the UI was so retarded? You simply cannot claim that. Apart from the inv system, the game is an absolute jewel from the PC gamer point of view, since vanilla day one. Great visuals, great performance, great gameplay. Trust me, Skyrim is one of the few games out there that was built for the PC the moment the first brainstorm session marked it's conception.

The UI is only one part that shows it was designed for console foremost. Another big part is the obsolete engine that continues to use DX9, YEARS after something better was out. They claimed they were going to do a new engine, but turns out it was just a coat of paint on the old one.

Now they do have great PC features, namely the modability and editors they release. But it certainly wasn't a game designed for PC foremost.

That's too simplistic a statement, there are certain styles of games that majorly benefits from mods, mostly sandbox style games. In fact, locking down the base game from mods + pumping out dlc and microtransactions is becoming the norm. Games like BF4, Borderlands 2, COD, Sims 3, Crysis 3, etc...

People will happily spend $15 for a map pack that use to be free with mods. Also, there are no mods on consoles so a lot of companies will not even bother to support it on the pc side.

You both are forgetting something DLC done right in multiplayer lets anyone without a DLC join a host who does have it. That way there's very little fragmentation. I've seen a couple games work this way.

A friend of mine, is almost 1000 hours into Skyrim. Yes, you read that right, 1000 hours, 982 specifically. I'm sure he will hit the 1000 mark sometime this upcoming week.

I've been holding off on Skyrim for a long time. Batman bought it for me as I was still sitting on the fence about getting it. If it wasn't for mods, I'd probably find it unplayable. How some of these things were not done by Bethesda just astounds me. The biggest problem with Skyrim is that there are too many mods due to severe design deficiencies from Bethesda. So instead of mods focusing on adding excellent content, mod authors have had to spend a lot of time on trying to improve the gameplay and GUI.

I've got 31 mods installed right now and I'd have more if my computer could handle graphical mods. And if I ever finish 1 playthrough, I'm sure I'll add more mods to increase immersion. As it is, I've been adding a mod here and there as I play.

Horror, if you use SkyUI, skills and items you add to Favorites you can bind to the number keys for quick access and use. While it's not a power bar...it's close enough.

Edit: What I like most is the exploration. ie: last night I came across the Pinewatch house, found the hidden door and made my way through. Killing the bandits, stealing their loot, through the traps (that was a bit weak), and stole the treasure. Loved it. This is why I like games like this.

On the flipside. Prior to Pinewatch I had found Ancients Ascent and got the Dragon Word. Problem was, there was no dragon protecting it (yet I could hear him flapping his wings from down the mountain at the burnt out hovel). Talking to my friend, the dragon wasn't there because I hadn't progressed the main storyline yet by going to Whiterun, and the dragon will show up there once I do.

It's stuff like this that baffles me in a sandbox game. Why would you have a trigger to spawn the dragon after I met quest requirements, when I could easily find the place if I'm just exploring near the starting area?