~ A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you … John 13:34

The problem with Protestantism

Protestants: it is so easy to generalise, is it not? But is it right? Over the past couple weeks I have been reading the posts on this site, and there are lots of things that I agree on, and I am also learning a lot about what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. However, I am seeing too much generalisation when speaking about Protestants.

How many groups are in the Protestant Church? most will say about 30,000. Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists, the Dutch Reformed, just to name a few.

But guess what? There are even separations WITHIN the denominations. The separation is this: Reformed, and not Reformed. Traditional, and Contemporary.

When I moved to a different state, myself and my family were appalled with what the Presbyterian Church has been getting up to. They are going hard-core contemporary. Church is slowing becoming a Sunday morning rock concert where you have your emotions targeted with a “sermon” from a preacher who is a hypocrite. Babies are taking part in communion, and I mean 6 month old babies, I wouldn’t lie about that. These are small pieces of information with what the contemporary movement is getting up to.

I have been raised in the Reformed Church my whole life, and I praise the Lord for that. We have one or two musical instruments at most, and are played quietly enough so that they don’t overpower the congregation’s singing. We sing only hymns, not praise songs. The style of preaching is called expository preaching. Meaning the preacher gets a piece of Scripture, or a topic, and delves right into the heart of it. It is a really good way of preaching. And the Reformed church is a lot more devout, I can guarantee you.

This is why I get upset when I hear someone like Patrick (bearing in mind I have nothing against him) say something like, “Protestants say Catholics worship Mary.” Protestants like myself are called Reformed for a reason. We know how it all works. Just don’t bother talking about theology to someone from one of Hillsong’s Church. If you drive there, the road you’re driving on is going to Hell.

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24 thoughts on “The problem with Protestantism”

Insteresting post Classicalmusicianguy, I was following along but then I’m not sure what your concluding paragraph is meant to convey. Can you expand on this sentence a little more: “Protestants like myself are called Reformed for a reason. We know how it all works.” It seems you might be saying that you know how making generalizations about other religions/denominations works? I am sure that Patrick knows that not ALL protestants say that Catholics worship Mary, but you do know there is one particular commenter here who makes that accusation repeatedly. If you disagree with the protestants on this site that accuse Catholics of worshipping Mary, it would be great if you could write about that.

I am sure that you see that making generalizations about other people’s faith works both ways. Broad sweeping accusations are made against the Catholics here that they worship Mary, worship statues, worship idols, think they are saved by eating crackers, don’t think for themselves, and even worse, don’t know Jesus and don’t follow the gospel.

Your friend Bosco felt free to comment to me just the other day that I hate the scriptures. I guess he didn’t care for what I had to say in challenging something he had written. He chose not to address the issue we were discussing and attempted to insult me instead, and saying that I hate scripture is about as low an insult that can be directed at any Christian. You do see this, I hope. And just to be clear, I am not a Catholic but I am fair minded, just as I think you are.

And good sister Celia, I didn’t mean it as an insult. I meant it as truth. If you put validity into the CCC, then you put no validity in scriptures, because the CCC is anti Christ. You cant have it both ways.

Bosco you can’t go and say that a Christian hates the Scriptures. It isn’t a good thing to say… and to answer your question, Celia, which somehow I only just saw now, is I mean that if you ask a contemporary or charismatic Protestant who Martin Luther is, they might say “Isn’t he the one who said he had a dream?” They have no idea about how the Protestant Church was formed and so have no knowledge of it, now go by the Reformer’s practices. Traditionalists know where their church came from and go by the Reformer’s practices instead of replacing it with their nonsense. That’s what I meant by “Protestants like myself are called Reformed for a reason, we know where we came from.” So if you’re going to talk to a Protestant about theology, make sure they know what they are talking about. And Bosco is not a Protestant, he has no denomination.

OK, I get what you mean now, thanks! I may have misread what you wrote since it was very early in the morning when I read your post and probably shouldn’t have tried to comment on it. 🙂 I agree wth you about contemporary music in church, by the way, I just love the traditional hymns.

That is one of Protestantism’s problems in a nut shell. I do realize that not every Protestant sect doesn’t claim this or that, but the majority do claim some sort of anti-Catholic accusation. That’s why they are Protestant, is it not? They “protest” the Catholic Faith. I do try to represent topics with “most Protestants accuse the Church of…”, because I do realize that there are far too many denominations to accurately generalize. But that’s not a good thing. There can be only one truth, and yet there are oh so many denominations, churches, groups, etc…. Its just not a very realistic scenario.

Only one can be right. These ongoing separations just seem to show someone that joining one of these churches is not the way to go. If someone started a church 200 years ago, and I was asked to join it, what would I say? Using baseball terminology, right off the bat, I’d say no. Realistically, there has to be some older, more authoritative Church that teaches the Truth. God didn’t wait till 200 years ago to finally give everyone the His church. The RCC is the only logical choice, as it alone can be traced to Christ and the Apostles. That is one reason I intend to remain Catholic all my life.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As I said, I will try to show a bit more awareness of the separations of Protestants, with phrases like “Many Protestants” or “Some Protestants”, and so on.

I do admire your style of thinking. You don’t come off as abrasive or (sorry to say this, Bosco) a jerk like Bosco. Sometimes, there is just a time to agree to disagree. Thanks for the article.

Music Guy has a point here Steven. Protestantism is a term without real meaning, defined only by what it is not – Catholic. But, Lutherans and Anglicans both identify as Evangelical Protestant Catholics. Others identify differently, my original church identified as Evangelical and Reformed, similar but different.

The origin of the term Protestant was that the Reformers protested various practices of the Medieval Roman Church. They saw (Trent says truly) that the Church had got off course. That the Church forced them out is on the Church, not them, they kept their faith.

Sure about this? “There can be only one truth, and yet there are oh so many denominations, churches, groups, etc…. Its just not a very realistic scenario.” Personally, my one truth is contained in the Nicene and Athanasian creed. That is the essential, the rest are aids to comprehension.

Roman (and Lutheran, for that matter) doctrine is almost exactly what it was 450 years ago, but that doctrine is not what the Church taught in Germany 501 years ago. The Catholic Church, founded as it may have been by Jesus, with St Peter as cornerstone, is still a construct of sinful men, prone to error. Sorry, but I’ll take the catholic church.

My experience is that when anyone uses Protestant as a pejorative, they simply seek to attack something (they may well be right) but to attack half of Christianity for something that bugs you in a small sect seems unwise to me. The same is, of course, true for anyone who uses Catholic as a pejorative, or Orthodox. It’s simply a sign that someone is shotgunning, attacking a broad swath of Christianity, instead of whatever practice he was thinking of.

When I say “one truth”, that is to say that there can be only one true teaching of faith, as handed down from Christ. Lutherans differ from Baptists in their teachings; or else they wouldn’t be Lutheran. If Lutherans and Baptists (I am just using the two denominations as examples) differ in doctrine, and both claim to teach biblical truth, then one has to be wrong, right?

Not necessarily, often it is a matter of emphasis, rather than a 180 difference. I could just as easily say what the Jesuits teach contradicts what the Franciscans teach.

If both teach (and believe) the three creeds, they teach Christianity, although one may well be a fuller version of it.

To use your example, as a Lutheran, I consider Baptists (most of them anyway, like us all, even Catholics, they have some strange outliers) Christians. That is not true of Mormons, although usually they are fine people, they just aren’t Christian.

Neo, I’m sorry, but you’re equivocating here. Let’s just be clear, I spend a lot of time with LCMS Lutherans, as my wife is one, although they do not have a full understanding of transubstantiation, they do have the understanding of consubstantiation. Regardless, it’s the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. Baptists do not teach this doctrine, or at least many do not, Baptists have the most splinter groups of denominations from the last polling that I’ve seen. Therefore, it is very fundamentally different between the spiritual teaching of Jesuits and Franciscans.

I use the Eucharist example because in scripture disciples said, “This is a hard teaching, who can accept it?” Well, many could not accept the truth, so they returned to their former way of life.

The point that Patrick makes is that there is truth, and one of the theological views of many mainline protestant denominations is so long as we adhere to the creed–we’re the same. I assert this to be a fallacious point, I will concede that it’s great for ecumenical relationships, heck it’s how my marriage works, but the Catholic Church teaches that Christ gave it authority here on earth, either that point is right or it is wrong, but regardless, it points to a single truth instituted by Jesus Christ.

I will also refute the notion that the Catholic Church’s teaching from 450 years ago vs. 501 years ago is different. I agree with Peter Kreeft on the matter that sure there was plenty of sinful men who were sinning, but the Church’s magisterium never taught error.

An interesting and informative read – for which many thanks. I don’t think Ceila was thinking you were like Bosco (you aren’t), but she was making the more general point that it is hard to sort out who is what – which is I think, one of your points. Protestant’ is too broad a term – not, incidentally, that Bosco accepts he is any type of Protestant 🙂

To accuse someone of lying is reckless, If one were to worship Mary, as God it is heresy. The Church excommunicates those who do so.

Bosco, everything that I’ve witnessed from your comments is that you do nothing but worship yourself. You know no authority but that which you deem to be your own doctrine–not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." J.R.R. Tolkien <br>“I come not from Heaven, but from Essex.” William Morris