Recently Robert Spencer argued on Frontpage that I, once a “moderate Muslim,” have joined the jihad against “infidels” and especially the state of Israel.

Well, not really. If I ever join an armed struggle one day, I will tell you. What I actually did was to condemn a particular action of the Israeli government: their bloody raid on the Free Gaza flotilla, an international group of NGOs that tried to bring in humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip, defying Israel’s blockade.

The incident has become a global issue, as nine Turkish activists on the flotilla were killed by Israeli commandos. The two sides, as you can expect, have their own versions of the events. Mr. Spencer seems to accept and defend the Israeli narrative, and that is just fine. I, for my part, don’t accept the Israeli narrative, and hope that a “credible, independent international investigation,” as a recent New York Times editorial suggested, will show us what really happened.

Meanwhile, I don’t think that the fact that some of the activists on board were “Hamas sympathizers” justifies Israel’s attack. In Turkey we have a few million “PKK sympathizers,” and although I regard the PKK (Kurdistan Workers’ Party) as a terrorist organization, I don’t regard those people as terrorists and thus legitimate targets. I understand that they just see the world quite differently.

I also don’t accept that Israel has a right to put a blockade on the Gaza Strip — a collective punishment on 1.5 million people — for the terrorist actions of the radicals in that destitute part of the world. I actually think that the radicalism on the Palestinian side is only exacerbated by such brutal and humiliating policies of Israel, which include the occupation of Palestinian lands since 1967 and the building of illegal settlements on them. The latter recently infuriated even Joe Biden, who does not shy away from describing himself as “a Zionist.”

I, on the other hand, am not a Zionist, but I certainly accept Israel’s right to exist, in its internationally acknowledged pre-1967 borders. I also strongly support a two-state solution which will, hopefully, give peace and security to both the Jewish and the Palestinian peoples.

The bottom line, I guess, is that I am not “pro-Israel,” as I believe Mr. Spencer is. I am rather trying to be pro-justice, and equally respect the rights of the both sides of the Middle Eastern conflict.

As for being a “moderate Muslim,” I never recall calling myself as such. The only political-sounding term I prefer to use is “liberal,” in the classical sense of the word. In other words, I do define myself as a “liberal Muslim,” for I uphold individual liberty, and criticize some elements within the Islamic tradition that contradict this value — things such as the ban on apostasy, the bans on “sinful” things, or the enforcement of certain religious practices.

I probably am “moderate,” too, for I always prefer dialogue to confrontation and diplomacy to armed conflict. But if being a “moderate Muslim” means being uncritical of Israel, or any other government, in order to enjoy flattery by them and their supporters, then let me kindly return the badge.

Spencer responds:

Mustafa Akyol, oddly enough, seems in his note to equate “jihad” with “armed struggle,” and to ignore the jihad of the tongue, the jihad of the hand, the jihad of the heart, and the jihad against the lower self, all of which are abundantly represented in Islamic tradition. But for the record, I do not believe and did not intend to imply that Mustafa Akyol was going to blow himself up in a crowded restaurant in Tel Aviv, or hide explosives in his underwear and attempt to set them off on an airplane, or drive a bomb-rigged car into Times Square, or shoot soldiers on a U.S. Army base. I do not believe that he is ever going to take up arms in order to further the hegemony of Islamic law over the world — but that doesn’t mean that in endorsing the Jihad Flotilla, and accepting the Islamic supremacist Turkish government’s fantastic version of events, that he is not siding with the jihad against Israel, and hence with the larger global jihad of which the jihad against Israel is just one of many fronts, albeit the foremost.

For the dispute between Israel and the Palestinians is indeed a jihad — if it weren’t, Mr. Akyol would have had his two-state solution in 1948, when the Arabs rejected a Palestinian state and went to war with Israel instead, motivated by the jihadist intransigence that demands all the land of Israel as an Islamic waqf. That line of thinking is also why the Camp David Accords, the Oslo Accords, the Road Map, and all other attempts to “solve” the Israeli/Palestinian conflict have failed, and why all future such initiatives will fail unless they involve the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state and its incorporation into an Islamic Sharia state. That is the stated goal of the Hamas movement that runs the Gaza strip that was to be the recipient of this “humanitarian aid.”

The “radicals,” as Mr. Akyol calls Hamas and its ideological kin, are supported by the overwhelming majority of Gazans, who voted them into power by a large margin. The society they envision is not in any sense “pro-justice” except in the eyes of Sharia supporters and sympathizers, and given that Mr. Akyol acknowledges that “some of the activists on board were ‘Hamas sympathizers,'” it reflects poorly on the moral sense of the other “activists” that they made the trip at all in the company of such people.

Meanwhile, Mr. Akyol conveniently ignores the fact that what he characterizes as the “Israeli narrative,” to which he generously grants me permission to subscribe, is abundantly established by video footage showing that the “activists” attacked the Israeli soldiers first, and by the photographs showing that the weapons they used were anything but the harmless “kitchen utensils” he earlier characterized them as being. But it has already been abundantly established that the world will not accept Israeli evidence no matter how compelling, while swallowing Palestinian propaganda (which they are very skillful in packaging for the mainstream media) with eager credulity.

So I do not, by any means, expect Mr. Akyol to break ranks with the dominant mainstream, the overall objectives of which he accepts anyway. I do wonder, however, what would happen to this self-professed “liberal Muslim” if he himself were to visit Gaza and proclaim publicly his opposition to the Islamic death penalty for apostasy. He might in that event not find too many of the oppressed, starving, but inexplicably obese (indeed, one of the most obese populations in the world) people of Gaza not quite as “pro-justice” as he might have hoped.

1. The Hamas doesn't care about international law acknowledged borders, pre or post 67'. They want to destroy Israel. PKK want's a state along side Turkey – a big difference.

2. It's very nice of you to support the existence of Israel in 67' borders but on the other hand, lifting the embargo from Gaza is like saying that Israel shouldn't be allowed to defend itself from terrorists who don't just abuse International law by targeting Israeli civilians, but give the same treatment to any Arab who doesn't think like them, including Fatah members, Islamic Jihad, Al Quaida and even Egyptian soldiers.

3. 67' war was forced by the Arabs and its original goal was to kill all Jews and drive them to the sea by their own admittance. It's anyone's guess what the Turks would do to any nation/s that wanted to destroy it. Oh wait, no need to guess, just look at how the Turks handled the Armenians and Kurds without calling for Turkey's destruction and genocide.

Conclusion: your only moderation is in your choice of words but not in the meaning of your message.

Dave L.

Hey, Aliko,

That was a great post!

aliko

Thank you.

WildJew

Mr. Akyol's support of the existence of Israel in 67' borders, means he supports Israel's annihilation or subjugation or at minimum a mass-slaughter of the Jews, because that will be the end result of a Muslim-enemy state in Judea, Samaria, Gaza and possibly east Jerusalem. Akyol is clearly a jihadist-sympathizer; that is he supports jihad terrorism, violence, lynchings, kidnappings, etc., of non-Muslims (or maybe Jewish non-Muslims), the likes of which we saw on board the Mavi Marmara. I am unclear why we should not consider a jihadist-sympathizer a jihadist in his own right.

Tanstaafl

Islam is like a box of chocolates – you never never know what favor of jihadist you will get next.

shmaltz

Hamas is at war with Israel, according to its own public statements. I don't understand yet why this foundational fact is not driving the public discussion. What have I missed?

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadConserv CanadConserv

A true Muslim moderate supports ISrael's right to defend itself against those who seek its destruction. As Mr. Akyol surely knows, the "aid flotilla" was a strategic effort to break the blockade, so that Iran could supply unlimited weapons to Hamas, in turn with which to kill Israelis.

A true Muslim moderate would recognize and acknowledge the reality of the ISraeli videos.

BTW, when Israelis unloaded the "aid," tons of weapons were found behind the flour bags. Anyone surprised?

Flora/France

tones of weapons??we didn't see any the only thing that all world saw was a criminal Israelis soldiers and just last week one of the UN sections (human rights council) said that Israel is criminal and it will be joude , shame on you you are a disgrace to humanity you can lie as much as you want but i'm sure deep in your hear you know you are a lier i was a big fan of Israel i didn't know all the crimes thanx to Youtube it show me the truth next year i'll be on palastine side of land and i'll defend palastinians like european youth there

CanadConserv

As I said, “A true Muslim moderate would recognize and acknowledge the reality of the ISraeli videos.”You've proven yourself to NOT be a moderate.

ApolloSpeaks

THE PRO-JUSTICE ANTI-ZIONIST MR. AKYOL

Apparently the "liberal" anti-Zionist Mr. Akyol doesn't accept the Oslo Accords that give Israel jurisdiction over the Port of Gaza with the legal right to impose blockades for national security reasons. Could it be that he challenges the legitimacy of the Oslo Accords then? And if so on what grounds? The grounds of justice? Whose justice? As the blockade is legal by international law it must be Islamic justice that the "liberal" Mr. Akyol is appealing to when he says that he's "pro-justice." Pro-Islamic justice is that it Mr. Akyol? Is that your justice? The Laws of Allah that allow for endless violent holy war against the non-Islamic Jewish State of infidel Israel?

Leo

As a Turkish Jew Living in the states, I can tell you that Mr Aykol is is neither Liberal nor Moderate Muslim. He is a wolf in a sheep clothing. I have been reading he's columns for very long time, he's very cleaver and knows how to appear reasonable. Thank God for the videos that showed the truth and not Israeli narrative. Mr Aykol you can not spin it this time, the truth is on the Israeli side and you know it.

frabul slomn

Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. lve seen the footage of the Turkish peaceniks vowing Gaza or martyrdom. lve read the Turkish press reports that some of the peaceniks wanted martyrdom. lve seen the footage of the peaceniks grabbing the stupid nice lDF soliers as they were lowered one by one onto the deck of the peacenik mother ship – and the clubbing with steel poles that followed and lve seen the photos of the bleeding lDF soldiers and seen the photo of the peacenik with the knife and lve read the description of the stabbings and the removal of the lDF commanders intestines by the peaceniks. lf Mr Akyol thinks this was a peaceful protest he must be from the planet Zlom. About the only thing these peaceniks dont engage in is cannibalism, theyve got every other form of violence infliction pretty much covered. lf this is peace then give me war.

http://intensedebate.com/people/AbdullahMikail AbdullahMikail

Unfortunately Mr Aykol has fallen into Spencer the Spin Doctor's trap. Every nuance of every word in every question it speaks is double talk loaded to fuel the islamophobic spewing. It labels people just to illicit a response. Like the Pariah State the truth and the facts erode the credibility of clowns like Robert and the Three Ring Circus of liars, the Pariah State.

http://intensedebate.com/people/kafirman kafirman

Prior to the interception, the jihadists were filmed singing of the virtues of Mohammad who committed offensive and unprovoked genocide of the Jewish town of Kaybar. Like their prophet, these jihadists just wanna kill the juice.

The followers of Mohammad want either their 72 virgins or Israeli blood on their hands. They do not want humanitarianism or even "Palestinian self-determination." What, is Hamas going to sanction apostasy as part of Fakestinian self-determination?

When you drink from the juice killing, all juice killing looks good to you.

That's why I don't read the NY Times, except to intentionally go into a dingy cavern exploring the slime decor.

http://intensedebate.com/people/AbdullahMikail AbdullahMikail

From the evidence of what you just wrote, you have no clue what you are talking about…

http://intensedebate.com/people/AbdullahMikail AbdullahMikail

The Jews of Khaybar did not show any hostility toward the Muslims until the leaders of Banu al Nadir settled among them. These leaders had been deeply hurt by their expulsion from their homes (In Madina). The expulsion had not destroyed their power, because they had left Madinah with their wives and children and their wealth, followed by singers beating drums and playing wind-instruments in an act of conceit and pride, the like of which had never been seen among any people at that time.

The most prominent leaders of Banu al Nadir who settled in Khaybar were Salam ibn Abu al Haqiq, Kinanah ibn Abu al Haqiq, and Huyayy ibn Akhtab. When they came to Khaybar, the people accepted their leadership.

contd.

http://intensedebate.com/people/AbdullahMikail AbdullahMikail

The leadership of these three men was enough to drag the Jews of Khaybar into conflict aimed at retaliation against the Muslims. They were driven by an inner hatred and strong desire to return to their homes in Madinah.

Their first move against the Muslims came in the Battle of the Ditch, when the Jews of Khaybar, led by the leaders of Banu al Nadir, played a significant role in the incitement of Quraysh and the desert Arabs against the Muslims, and spent their own money for that purpose. Then they succeeded in persuading Banu Qurayzah to betray the Muslims and cooperate with their enemies.

After God had aided the Muslims in defending Madinah and defeating the tribes, the Messenger felt that it was important to deal with the situation in Khaybar, which had become a source of great danger for the Muslims.

Thus the continued hostility and arrogance of the Banu Nadir was what drug the Jewish tribes of Khaybar into conflict in which they were vanquished…they got what they planned for.

http://intensedebate.com/people/AbdullahMikail AbdullahMikail

BTW to Roberts BS line about activists attacking first: the IDF armed solidiers, launched ships and helicopters, engaged in hostile postures in international waters, further pursued an unarmed fleeing civilian cargo vessel deeper into international waters, then fired upon it with live rounds from helicopters while boarding (autopsy verified that one civilian victim was shot through the top of the head). Maritime law provides for vessels under attack of piracy the right to repel boarders with all means necessary…obviously unarmed they attempted self defense with weapons of opportunity.

contd.

http://intensedebate.com/people/AbdullahMikail AbdullahMikail

contd. from above

This cowardly act is only superceded in cowardice by the IDF lies in response and people like Robert supporting them in their dissemination of those lies.

I mean, if you hear the voice of the IDF (Special Forces???) in the IDF blacked out screen version of the attack whining cowardly as he cries "They have real weapons!!" I imagine there may have been an overpowered IDF (Special Forces???) member who was disarmed by elderly overweight peace activists prior to his heroic act of bravely leaping over board to save his own skin…Special Forces??? [Maybe Special Ed : ) ]

Is this their finest? : )

I digress…these are not only the actions of a failed state but of a failed military force…it is spiraling downward and will collapse inward on itself if it does not right the course of the Israeli administration…seriously, Israeli government is currenlty the Israelis wost enemy.

Israel’s Foreign Secretary’s Department released a video yesterday of the captain of the Turkish ship “Marmara” testifying how the so-called “peace activists” on board of his ship prepared to use violence against the Israeli soldiers enforcing the blockade. “I tried to stop the preparations for violence, but with no success,” captain Muhamet Toobel told Israeli interrogators. “I ordered the employees of the ship to collect all the iron rods (sticks).”

Toobel said that the extremists on board started preparing for their fight with the IDF two hours before their ship was boarded. Tensions suddenly increased, Toobel noticed, so he decided to conduct a quick check. He saw that Turkish members of the IHH had created iron clubs. This worried him tremendously, so he told his crew to intervene and stop the preparations for violence.http://www.newsrealblog.com/2010/06/12/turkish-ca…

Maritime law gives them the right to prepare to repel borders with any means necesarry. It's clowninsh you giving credence to a video produced by the master spin doctors on earth, the IDF. They make invasion, murder, and occupation sound like "Self Defence"

And what a bunch of spineless wimps they are.

I say Turkey should exercise the right to protect it's own citizens in international waters and send a couple destroyers and a missile frigate along to escort the next flotilla.

The Islamic world is rife with conspiracy insanity. Seems you've caught the bug.

Steve

AbdullahMikail

Canadian Steve,

I see you are still warped by your "Israel does no wrong" mania…no wonder you think any rational criticism of as being "conspiracy insanity"… don't be an idiot, repelling borders is a right…it isn't as if they left port with gund loaded intent on killing, is it? But someone did…

The IDF admitted today in a press release that it doctored audio footage from its exchanges with the Gaza flotilla in order to paint the flotilla passengers as anti-Semites. I am beginning to wonder if the Israeli military hired James O’Keefe to handle its press shop."

END EXCERPT

Gee, Steve, I called it as I saw it and you tried to spin it as "conspiracy insanity"…now who is the one spinning and disembling false information? The IDF that's who, and you are backing them up.

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadConserv CanadConserv

You should learn to read better.

Israel breathes; world condemnation instantaneous
Andrew Pessin
-Satire-
Israel breathed this morning. There was a quick intake of air, and then a gentle exhalation.
World condemnation was instantaneous.

P.A. President Abbas decried the Israeli attempt to commandeer the Middle East air supply, and demanded a prompt return to the 1967 air distribution which Palestinian leaders had previously violently rejected. Iranian President Ahmadinejad interrupted his weekly call for the destruction of Israel in order to blast the Zionist entity for its blatant oxygen grab and call for its immediate destruction.

Egyptian newspapers detailed the malicious Mossad plot to exhale germs into the air and then spread the poisoned air via high-tech windmills directly into the lungs of Muslim children. Exiled Hamas leader Khaled Meshal announced that in response to the Israeli aggression, Hamas would not let the Red Cross visit captured soldier Gilad Schalit. When it was pointed out that they hadn't allowed such visits in the four years prior to Israel's action, he snorted, "And now you see why!"

Turkey announced it would be withdrawing its ambassador, only to retract that announcement in slight embarrassment when it realized it had already withdrawn him last week, in response to some other Israeli outrage it could no longer quite recall. The United Nations General Assembly, after meeting for an all-night emergency session, called for another all-night emergency session. And the Security Council demanded an immediate impartial investigation, only to backtrack when it was informed that all its available staff were already tied up in ongoing impartial investigations of other Israeli actions.

Indeed, outrage at Israel's action was heard around the globe. People everywhere exclaimed that Israel's aggression was against international law, and then asked for a copy of the newspaper so they could see just what it was, in fact, that Israel had done this time. Others, more intellectually-inclined, asked for some links on "international law," curious to find out, at last, just what was this special code which apparently all non-Israelis had secretly agreed upon. And, of course, there were numerous calls for Israel's leaders to be brought up on charges of war crimes.

Loudest of these were from regimes as diverse as China, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, and North Korea, which took time off from their busy schedules oppressing Tibetans, Darfur civilians, women and all religious minorities, and their own citizens respectively to make their pronouncements. In fact, Israel's action this time was so offensive that Muslim extremists actually paused from their work installing massive explosives in each others' mosques in order to condemn Israel's attacks on Muslim civilians.

The criticisms could even be heard within Israel itself. "How can Israel call itself a democracy," Haaretz asked in an editorial, "while allowing its Jewish citizens to consume 75% of the air?" Arab-Israeli MKs signed a petition demanding that the Israeli constitution, guaranteeing their right to sit in the Knesset despite their repeated calls for Israel's destruction, should be dissolved, preferably in favor of something more totalitarian. "On this day I am ashamed to be a Jew," proclaimed one prominent left-wing leader, a man who had repeatedly urged all peoples to be proud of their ethnic and religious identities, except for Jews.

Israel initially attempted to respond to these criticisms, but quickly realized that speaking would require it once again to inhale and thus draw upon itself further global ire.

Ther is no such "thing " as a liberal muslim – To quote the infamous blank panther – "You are either part of the problem or part of the solution" no halfways in this argument.

badaboo

Israel has a legal right to the sea blockade of Gaza . Hamas firing 7000 rockets into Israel is an act of war .Thus a defacto war exists between Israel and Hamas who control Gaza .
the phony IHH sponsored flotilla's intentions were not peacefull nor humanitarian , especially after being given an alternative port to land their cargo and accomplish their "alleged goal " . To run a military blockade after being forewarned , and GRACEFULLY given an alternative is a military action .Any "humanitarian action here was on the part of the Israelis , who refrained from blowing the Mavi Maramara out of ther water or atleast disabling her , which would have been quite easy with no risk to Israeli lives….but the "passengers " wanted a bloody confrontation ,and got it by their actions , which was a preplanned attack on the commandos who boarded her .

http://intensedebate.com/people/AbdullahMikail AbdullahMikail

"Israel has a legal right…" In your warped reality, maybe.

Under international law the siege on Gaza and all Israeli acts in the West Bank are considered illegal.

badaboo

And to AbdullahMikail , forget your phony hubris and bravado , any Turkish warships foolishly sent to run a blockade in international waters off the Gaza coast , would be SUNK by the IAF in a matter of moments , the Turks know it and so do you .
And they would have every right to , Erdogan can do all the "sucking up " he wants to the islamists of his country , but it wont be done at Israel's expense , nor with the phony cunard of concern for the Palestinians.
So put away your pan arab pipie dream of Turkish warships escorting anything to or near Israel .

AbdullahMikail

Do you recall that 34 day war? Remember the, as George Galloway put it, "Damned good hiding!" the mighty IDF got at the hands of some ill equipped poorly trained unsupported civilian defence forces using worn out kalishnakovs and WWII era Kytyusha rockets…its all in the IDF troops…their heart and spine just isn't in it…the first sign of real resistance sends them running like cowards…if it isn't a defenseless half starved civilian the IDF is useless…Israel is becoming more and more isolated…watch all the flopping and twitching that they do as they lose even more support world wide. The actions of late are that of a failed state resorting to violence because it is becoming increasingly irrelevant.

The CIA called the fall of the Soviet empire, and they already called the fall of the Pariah State…Israrael needs to change the way it behaves with it's neighbors or it will cease to be…it's nothing to do with your fantasy of "pan arabism"… you idiot… it has to do with Israel and Israel alone.

badaboo

Mustafa says he's for "justice " and not jihad , but to the ignorant , that sounds reasonable . However the word "justice " in the islamic lexicon IS JIHAD , JIhad IS JUSTICE .__ Anything that stands in the way of "The Goal of The Prophet " -is unjust , thus any and all means used to remove such obstacles is considered JUSTICE . ____And What is The Goal Of the Prophet ? Nothing less than world subjugation to islam.____So one must know what muslims mean when they say justice , for they are counting on your ignorance . The same applies to the word innocent , muslims say they do not murder or kill the innocent …"how kind of them " !! __The only problem with that is , that anyone who IS NOT MUSLIM ,IS NOT INNOCENT , and that too is applied between muslims such as sunni and shia , for one considers the other "apostate " thus NOT INNOCENT , hence the slaughters between the two that occur and have occurred down through history .__ What is this , 'double-speak " ?? ____No , it is called TAQIYYA , or religiously approved LIES , for the sake of the UMMA .

badaboo

So , in view of this taqiyya double-speak , religious approved LIEING , any suggestion of a return to '67 borders means nothing less then the next step in the Pan -Arab Dream – The Destruction of Israel .
For amongst arabs and muslims the very existence of Israel is called "the Nakba " meaning disaster , and they are religiously and ideologically hell bent on reversing it , no less tyoday than in 1948 . NOTHING has or will change .

William Kerrigan

What hate and bigotry Mr. Spencer has in his heart. I can't believe he is representative of the average Israeli. There appears to be only one reasonable person in this exchange.

I’ve been browsing on-line more than 3 hours today, but I never found any fascinating article like yours. It is pretty price sufficient for me. Personally, if all website owners and bloggers made just right content material as you probably did, the net might be a lot more useful than ever before.

SKhan

I think Robert Spencer is doing stealth jihad. He claims his grandmother was forced to convert to islam but declined. But what if…And besides that, He has A Jihadi beard. Also, he has supported MEK terrorists. I think he is an islamic radical implementing stealth jihad.

SKhan

David Horowitz has a Muslim Beard. Do you think HE could be a jihadist? He might be implementing stealth jihad as we speak…

SKhan

Raymond Ibrahim's last name is IBRAHIM, the Islamic word for "Abraham". Also he speaks Arabic, the Islamic language. I think he is also a stealth Jihadist.

SKhan

Daniel Pipes has a Muslim beard. He might also be a stealth jihadist.

SKhan

Geert Wilders is of Indonesian descent. Indonesians are the largest muslim population in the world…

SKhan

you fools realize that taqiyya is a shia name for an islamic concept that allows lying about one's religious identity (ex.: Christian, muslim) but not about what the faith entails, right?

SKhan

Rick Perry has a friend who is a Muslim. Do you think that he is a stealth jihadist?

SKhan

Frank Gaffney has a muslim beard. Do you think he is a stealth jihadist?

lucky bead

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