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Last summer I observed men with long shorts entering the Vatican Museums and St.Peters. The guards do get a bit touchy about the Sistine Chapel, but they seem much more concerned about women with bare shoulders and above the knee shorts than men with knee length shorts. You can always go to Travelsmith or Lands End and buy long pants with zip off legs (easy to store in cargo pockets). I used those throughout Italy last summer, as I am generally loathe to relinquish shorts but did not want to be excluded from any churches (as I was a few years back in San Gimgnano).

Or - how about those cargo-type pants that zip off at the knee. Not that attractive - but in this situation they make great sense. Slip the bottom half of the legs into your day pack and zip them on while in line at the Vatican. Then zip them off again when you're done.

Our experience was that only small (I mean younger than 10 years old) boys were allowed in with short pants. Our boys had zip-off pants which they used - same for my husband. Women are required to cover their arms/shoulders as well. We saw people turned away.

Why not a pair of cotton or linen blend pants? That is what my husband always wore on hot days. A bonus is if you go to sit somewhere that has had the sun beating on it for hours his legs would have some protection.
That type of good looking pant is also great to wear for dining on hot and humid evenings.

I wouldn't recommend it. A few years ago my husband was wearing what you describe as "long shorts" and he was turned back. However right in front of us a woman with a miniskirt which showed the bottom of her underwear was let in.

I just don't think that shorts, particularly those which fall to or below the knee, would keep anyone that much cooler than a pair of thin cotton or linen pants. Wear pants; it's a grown-up thing. It'll be hot anyway. It just won't matter that much.

I'm an American who agrees that grown men look ridiculous going about in European cities in shorts. And no place is stricter than St. Peter's. Wear long pants. If not because you might not be let in otherwise, then simply because it's more respectful.

I don't think men should wear shorts in any city. One of the most horrifying sights in my life was seeing a hairy-legged German wearing bright green gym shorts, black socks and sandals on 5th Avenue on a hot summer day.

Adults have to sacrifice some comfort for propriety. After age 16 -- no shorts in the city!

I wear what I please, and trust my own judgement as to what manner of dress is appropriate to a given set of circumstances -- judgement that, by the way, has proven itself pretty reliable over the years.

If someone has a problem with what I choose to wear then, golly that's a problem, all right. But I'm also quite clear as to whose problem it is, and it ain't mine.

If you have any respect for the Roman Catholic Church, you would wear your best. If a president of the United States asked you to a state dinner at the White House, would you wear shorts and a tee-shirt?

We live overseas - in an old-world, conservative country (altho they are trying to modernize!).

While there are NO OFFICIAL rules for men - it's just common knowledge that shorts are looked upon as underwear. And unless you're under 10 - men don't wear them. So even in the heat of summer, when my husband goes downtown - whether to go shopping, have lunch, or just get a haircut - he wears long pants.

It goes back to the very simple idea of respecting the culture you are visiting (or in our case - living in)!

My level of respect for any religious institution or for the current governing administration is not the issue here.

The issue, from my perspective, is my intention to ignore, or at least avoid, the self-appointed finger-waggers of the world. Using some vague standard of 'propriety' for justification, these scolds intrude unbidden into other individuals' lives, regardless of whether real harm is being done either to other people or to other people's property.

I did state that I would apply my own well-exercised judgement, not anyone else's, as to what clothing is likely to be appropriate to a given situation. For example, in this particular case, should I wish to see the interior of the Vatican then I would likely judge a change of dress to be necessary, based on the dress standards published by that institution, not based on some third-party's tsk-tsk'ing.

I will refrain from assessing the quality of your judgement, and I would appreciate your similarly refraining from assessing mine.

Fritzl

PS: As I've typed this response, I've noted with amusement that many of you have reacted to my original response with eager censure, questioning my maturity, my level of respect for other cultures, my poor judgement -- all based on nothing more than my preference for clothing on a hot day. M'gosh, by the time I finish this addendum, you may all have added even more items to the list of my personal faults. I commend you all on your insight.

i am kane:
I believe the poster is showing that a woman (the figure in the orange) can wear stuff to her knees and the man (the figure in the purple) can't. I know for a fact they will prohibit entry to men (but not kids) in shorts.

I wonder why people don't argue about the fact of having to change clothes and be formally dressed in some restaurants but feel so bad because they cannot wear shorts in Catholic churches... I just don't go to restaurants that ask for formal dressing when in holidays..but don't discuss their rules

Is there a parallel universe Europe that you folks visit? I see PLENTY of men wearing shorts, especially in Italy. And most are not tourists. Plenty of the locals tool around in shorts in mid-July. It's freakin' hot there and many guys take necessary measures to keep their necessary parts cool.

We are always surprised at hwo cothing has become such a hot-button issue here in the states - even at expensive restaurants (we're in California), there are often men in leisure outfits; including sweat outfits, albeit expensive designer duds. Why is this such a problem? When did we get this way? Why can't people dress appropriately? Most of us remember a time, or can see by the movies, that we Americans used to look pretty sharp -and our men looked pretty good - bella figura...

Over the years, I have found that most of the time when you see inappropriately dressed people, they are usually Americans. It's embarassing...and they are also the ones that gripe so loudly, even though all travel guides say what will be acceptable and what won't be.
By the way - I believe that is why at the Vatican (loud tourist griping, bullying)it is now acceptable to wear those truly obscene paper pants.

And yes - the Roman Catholic Church has every right to demand respectable clothing in cathedrals, etc., as it remains a place of worship, not a museum, or wonder of the world. If you have absolutely no respect for that don't go there.
I have noticed people are a bit more flexible about other religious beliefs re. clothing (muslim headgear for women, etc.)..why is that?
Throughout Europe there are people travelling in outfits more suitable for rural hiking than in cities. (And we have travelled with young boys, and no we don't stay in fancy places..)

Raised as a catholic I completely understand the churches expectations that certain parts are covered when you enter certain churches. I can only wonder why this only seems to apply major churches in Italy and not all churches all of the time. As for wearing shorts after the age of ten, what century are you guys living in? I understand the public eyesore from the guy in green shorts and black socks with sandals but that guy would probably be an eyesore if he had to dress like the women in the Arab world. Some people just have no taste and no amount of coverage is going to help. On the other hand I refuse to wear long pants in 90 plus degree weather just because it doesn't fit someone's twisted sense of propriety. When the weather gets hot the shorts come out but they are tasteful. I am going to wear sandals also because my feet do much better when they can breathe. Some of you need to get a life so you can stop telling other people how to live the details of theirs. Oh, and if I was going to dinner with the current president I might have to wear shorts anyway as he doesn't seem to have any respect for those who don't agree with him.

In the '50's in the States to go downtown shopping, women would wear gloves & hats. Then there was the Kennedy era when elegance was sought after. Finally there was the Summer of Love & all hell broke loose. Who can forget the double-knit polyester of the 70's that didn't burn, it melted?

But isn't that the crux of the question? Why is it so absolutely necessary to ascertain whether an adult man can gain admittance to St. Peter's Basilica in shorts? Will it seriously impair his health if he wears pants for one day?

Judging from the St. Peter's pictogram (men are purple; women are orange), an adult man in shorts will not be admitted to St. Peter's Basilica.

To get back of topic, last summer I saw men with just below the knee length shorts turned away. However, there were some men inside St Peter's that had knee length shorts. My observation is that there is a "Studio 54" mentality, ie the bouncer seems to have discression and uses it.

Oddly, they let one Eastern European woman in with a see through "cover up". While it did cover her from her shoulders to mid-calf, it was so see-through that her flimsy lace bra and teeny-tiny thong were quite prominent. Go figure.

My advise is that its always better to err on the conservative side. For my money the discomfort of wearing a light linen slack for a day is nothing like the aggrivation of working your way over to St Peter's, standing in line and getting told to hit the road. JMHO

We were in Italy last year in June/July and it was VERY VERY HOT! Yes, we wore shorts (shame on us). We were not allowed in the Vatican with our shorts, which were knee length. We knew this, so we just pulled out pants that we had stuffed in a travel bag and put them on right over or shorts. No big deal, everyone was happy. When we came out of the Vatican we just took off our long pants and continued on. And there are many people wearing shorts these days in the VERY HOT summer in Europe, not just Americans, but Europeans as well. Including our tour guide, who was from Rome.

You beat me to it...I was thinking that the guys should wear light-weight pants, but put a pair of shorts in a small knapsack and change later in the day after we leave St. Peters/Vatican Museums (if that's what they want to do).

We were at the Vatican last July and they are strict about the women covering their shoulders and some of the leg. My husband and sons both wore long shorts, myself and daughters had on crop pants. Be sure and get there early, the line was 1 1/2 hours to get in. Enjoy.

I agree that it is a matter of respect to wear long pants if that is the rule of the Vatican. One does not have a "right" to visit the Vatican; rather, you are invited in as a guest, and should follow their request out of respect. As someone else pointed out, you would not expect to get into a fine restaurant with shorts (or paper pants), so what's the big deal about wearing pants for a few hours at the Vatican?

On the other hand, I had a good laugh over the comments about grown American men looking "ridiculous" wearing shorts in European cities. Who cares what anyone is wearing walking around a city? Of course, anyone can judge anyone, but would you also judge Indian women walking around Europe in saris? Wearing shorts (I'm talking about longer shorts, not "short shorts") is part of modern American style, and I see no reason for anyone to change their style just because they are on vacation. We're all judgemental at somepoint, however, because I know I can barely contain my laughter when I see hairy European men walking about Miami Beach in Speedos.

Reminds me of the time a few years back we were backpacking around Europe. My friend, who is now a doctor, dropped his shorts right in front of the main doors, took out a pair of jeans from his backpack, and walked right in. I sat outside in my shorts, and watched his backpack for him. He told me afterwards that Micky did a pretty good job on the ceiling!
Bill