Was the Pope Blackmailed into resigning?

The Guardian – A potentially explosive report has linked the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI to the discovery of a network of gay prelates in the Vatican, some of whom – the report said – were being blackmailed by outsiders.

The pope’s spokesman declined to confirm or deny the report, which was carried by the Italian daily newspaper La Repubblica.

The paper said the pope had taken the decision on 17 December that he was going to resign – the day he received a dossier compiled by three cardinals delegated to look into the so-called “Vatileaks” affair.

…

Pope Benedict has said he will stand down at the end of this month; the first pope to resign voluntarily since Celestine V more than seven centuries ago. Since announcing his departure he has twice apparently referred to machinations inside the Vatican, saying that divisions “mar the face of the church”, and warned against “the temptations of power”.

La Repubblica’s report was the latest in a string of claims that a gay network exists in the Vatican. In 2007 a senior official was suspended from the congregation, or department, for the priesthood, after he was filmed in a “sting” organised by an Italian television programme while apparently making sexual overtures to a younger man.

In 2010 a chorister was dismissed for allegedly procuring male prostitutes for a papal gentleman-in-waiting. A few months later a weekly news magazine used hidden cameras to record priests visiting gay clubs and bars and having sex.

Gee somehow Leviticus 18:22 and Romans 1 come to mind. Those that wish to follow the Master might want to seriously consider reading His Field Manual. Building one’s house upon the Rock Of Ages sure beats building said frame on the sinking sands of perdition.

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thank God there are ppl that can see through this malarky. i give most of the ppl here credit for having the brains but i see there are some ppl still predisposed to eat this stuff up.

TexasPGRRider

XLNT Point Ken…”Consider the source”….

911Infidel

The source is an Italian newspaper not the Guardian. Left-wing or not, they got some pretty good intel from time to time. So I wouldn’t exactly dismiss the report.

Cindy09

The Pope defended (quite vigorously) Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone when the scandal about some secret papers were stolenby his personal butler last year. They all could be related to the story going on.

Also Bertone is a man that could benefit from the Pope’s downfall, as he is pretty close to politicians and high powered financiers.

Anyhow, I found this interview given by Tom Horn, author of “Petrus Romanos” quite interesting. Not to mention that Horn referred to St Malachy’s prophecy in his book, which now seemed to have been spot on, since the Pope actually resigned last year and the news was kept secret until this February.

It doesn’t matter who takes his place. The corruption in the Catholic Church needs to be purged once and for all. And I seriously doubt that will take place, since it has been swept under the rug time and time again. From the Irish laudries to the pedophile cases, to priests dying of AIDs, alchoholism, drug addiction, to the lay teachers, priests, and nuns who were just transferred to another parish in another state rather than face prosecution or sanction from the church…This corrupyion seems to be the Gordian knot within the church leadership and has been so for decades.

It requires a simple solution. Follow the Scripture. Forget what some humanist says about life. Harvest the wheat, cut down the weeds and the Church will be whole.
Jesus “I am the way, the truth and the life.” Secular Humanism is not the way. Get rid of it. Use the sword of the Spirit to cut that Gordian Knot.

AmigoRed

The Church has done many things, including working on preventing, and getting rid of homosexual priests.

911Infidel

And yet the Vatican is in crisis mode. Why? Because homosexuality is an institutional
problem. Try going to seminary without being a homosexual. I know two guys that tried. And they both left when they realized that unless they became one, they would never graduate.

Mary Sieg

That prophecy of St. Malachy’s is scary. Also scary is how much of it actually has come true. Pope John Paul 2 was born on a day with a solar eclipse and was also buried on the day of a solar eclipse. There are other things that were actually true to that prediction…can’t remember all of it. Pope Benedict belonged to some Olivarian sect (probably not saying that right) and the prophecy connected Pope #111 – Benedict with an Olive Branch. Interesting, but scary. I try to just believe in scripture, not prophecy by Malachy. Things like predicting the future, ouiji boards, all are connected to the devil, in my opinioin.

Cindy09

Thank you for your input Infidel!

Personally, I do not know under which spirit St Malachy was, when he gave that prophecy. Like the Bible says, we have to test every spirit. I somehow believe that the devil knows part of the future (somehow!) and he certainly knows that in the end he is going to be thrown into the pit of fire. However, I have found many people giving creed to that prophecy. The scary thing is: part of this might fulfill as prophesied. But this does not mean that the prophecy was uttered under God but rather Satan, himself, is showing his plans. Nowadays things get so diluted into the christian faith. While we know that there will be signs, it does not mean that all of them are from God!

CO2isGood

Also, contrary to what we would all like to think priests are not immune to sin. Considering the fact that catholic priests are not permitted to marry makes the priesthood an ideal place for this kind of activity to become entrenched.

Conservative_Hippie

911, there is no where in that article to click through to the original source. Do you have a link to the La Repubblica article?

I agree that the Guardian is leftwing trash, much like our mainstream media is too. The fact the Vatican won’t confirm or deny the allegation is damning in itself. The Guardian was only reporting what the Italian papers have reported. If you google it, the coverage is from multiple sources. I’m sure the Guardian reporter was orgasmic as he was able to the paint the Catholic Church/Christianity with such a tainted brush.

KenInMontana

Frankly I see this “story” as more speculation, in this mad rush to put a finger on why Benedict has chosen to resign, aside from his stated reason. I’m not really all that surprised why the Vatican has chosen to ignore it, when any response will not satisfy the critics.

Marky_D

It’s the worst anti-christian rag in the UK. I wouldn’t eat chips out of it. It’s not fit for last resort toilet paper.

Once again, the Catholic policy of banning priests from marriage rears its ugly head.

57thunderbird

I agree.The scripture says it is better to be married than to burn with passion.

gothicreader

As always the misinformed have no clue. However, to help you better understand you may want to watch and listen, so that you will understand the underlying problem we are facing within the Catholic Church.

This has absolutely have nothing to do with priest being able to marry.

I know many have absolutely no knowledge or inclination to understand the teachings of the Catholic faith.

57thunderbird

I just know what I have heard from the mouths of Catholic parishoners.I know enough to know that I have no inclination to join the Catholic church.The post you were looking at was in answer to another post.Perhaps you missed the context of that conversation.

911Infidel

Now why is it that everytime that a negative story about the Catholic Church is posted, suddenly people are “misinformed about the Catholic faith”.There is no misinformation here, this is what a newspaper in Italy is saying about a corruption scandal within the Catholic chain of command. That’s all it is. As a former Catholic who witnessed corruption and abuse on a wide-scale as a young Catholic student in their school system, this “story” is neither surprising or unexpected. It has nothing to do with understanding the Catholic religion. That “understanding” is irrelevant to the issue of long-standing corruption in the Catholic Church that has been left festering for years. Its long past the time to purge that corruption once and for all.

gothicreader

First, I wasn’t replying to your comments on the article. My response was to “I agree.The scripture says it is better to be married than to burn with passion.”

People without knowledge seems to think that if priests are allowed to get married the Church would not have these problems.

I’m going to assume you did not view the video, because then you would know that I am in agreement with the article.

The Catholic Church has been infiltrated since the 60’s.

As a Catholic I recognize this. However, it the men who will fall on the sword and not the Church.

911Infidel

Nope I sure didn’t.

The trouble with the Catholic Church is the same as it was when I was growing up. Which is to say that secular humanism – man’s wisdom has replaced the Oracles of God – i.e the Scripture.

“People without knowledge seems to think that if priests are allowed to get married the Church would not have these problems.” That’s true it won’t solve anything.

All the problems in the Church could easily be solved if the Church would adhere to the Scriptures instead of trying to supplant and subsume Scripture with human wisdom.

What people fail to realize is that the Vatican/Vatican City is the world’s smallest sovereign nation. Vatican City is as much, if not more so, about politics and power than it is about “religion” or worshiping Jesus. It is a powerful, corrupt entity. How do you think hundreds if not thousands of priests have gotten away with pedophilia and virtual rape for decades and we seldom hear about them going to prison. We never hear about their sentencing. Why is that?

911Infidel

Every priest in my parish when I was in High School, but one was arrested and hauled off to jail for child molestation and that was a long time ago. Some get caught others got transferred to other parishes in another state. Kids were taught not to challemge or question any priest or nun. So that went a long way to shutting kids up. But not anymore. Now the cat is out of the bag.

PJRodman

Since the “scandal” seems to involve homosexuals, I assume then that you are for Gay Marriage?

3d81

How so? Those were gay men.
If this report is true then it would explain the liberal culture of the church and the weakening of the Mass. Pope Benedict has been trying his best to drive out those liberals.

Again the lefty homosexual agenda invades even the most holy of places. Destroys everything in its path. Be on guard.

911Infidel

The Mass got ruined when they took away the Latin Mass. I hated the new “Mass”; Guitar Mass…whatever. I memorized the entire Mass in Latin and found it to be superior to the jive crap that took its place. I also noticed a liberal trend in the Church at that time that seemed to be a war between the ideas of the Jesuit Georgetown elitists vs the SJ. And the nuns morphed into feminazis. To me growing up, the Church was all “Going My Way” and “Bells of St Mary’s” Its what I expected. The reality was anything but.

CO2isGood

As a catholic I have also seen the way this has effected the church. It has been around since way before the 60’s as others have stated, and has nothing to do with Liberals.

The fact, that the church does not allow marriage may not have been the sole cause of the problem, but it certainly created the perfect environment for pedophiles and closeted homosexuals to live comfortable and outwardly “respected” lives, while still egaging in in some of the most egregiously sinful activity any person can imagine. For many the fact that the activity was sinful probably added to their pleasure.

sDee

Something is going on. I am speculating it has more to do with social justice, liberalism, world governance and islam.

If Cardinal Dolan becomes Pope they’d all better be worried.

57thunderbird

Yeah,Dolan comes across as a pretty tough cookie.I think he might upset the apple cart.

true but if you can’t keep a vow as a priest what makes you think a man will keep a vow if he’s married? BTW.that’s not all scripture says:”Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom it is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it” (Matt. 19:11–12). Paul was saying it ws better to marry than to give into immorality. BTW> Eastern Catholic priests may marry as are some Anglicans. Finally,marriage for priests would not keep men from being pedophiles or gay or anything else. It has its own set of problems as does celibacy. What matters is that people keep the vows of their vocation(single,married or religious.)Here’s a newflash SINGLE Catholics(ALL Christians)are supposed to remain ‘celibate’ until and if they marry anyway. Priests are not banned. It’s a discipline,not a dogma. If a man does not feel he is called then he is always free to marry or remain single. This is another off the wall news story meant to do damage to the Church. Why do they bother?

ItsJustDad

Maybe I am mistaken here, but I don’t believe Paul wrote the book of Matthew. Nor was it Paul who was being quoted in the book of Matthew, it was Jesus.

57thunderbird

Good catch.I should have recognized that.

sDee

true but if you can’t keep a vow as a priest what makes you think a man will keep a vow if he’s married?

Excellent assessment.

Evil is course going to attack the church first and foremost. These priests are simply evil – the devils tools. What should be of great concerns is when the church institutionalizes evil. Social justice is an insidious form.

The vow of the priest should have never been conceived in the first place. There is no Biblical merit to it as that of the vow of Marriage. The two are not the same nor should they be compared to each other. One is made-up malarkey the later (marriage) is given to us from God.

Though it is true that marriage would not keep priest from committing other sins, one point that has been left out is that with marriage the RCC would have expanded the pool of prospects. With the “celibacy” demand, it dramatically increase the potential for those who struggle with such sins to get in.

“Eastern Catholic” are those the Eastern Orthodox that do allow marriage of the priest as long as they are married prior to ordination? I do find it interesting that after Luther left the Catholic Church that he did get married. One other point, if Peter was the first pope why didn’t the church follow his lead? He was married.

However, the liberals would not be happy or satisfied unless the newly elected pope is a black partnered lesbian female or transgendered (either way) muslim.

badbadlibs

From the article:

Listen to Rodriguez Maradiaga’s own words:

“It certainly makes me think that in a moment in which all the attention of the mass media was focused on the Middle East, all the many injustices done against the Palestinian people, the print media and the TV in the United States became obsessed with sexual scandals that happened 40 years ago, 30 years ago. Why? I think it’s also for these motives: What is the church that has received Arafat the most times and has most often confirmed the necessity of the creation of a Palestinian state? What is the church that does not accept that Jerusalem should be the indivisible capital of the State of Israel, but that it should be the capital of the three great monotheistic religions?”

Oh-oh…..duck, Jews….if this guy gets the high office. Christians, get ready, Jesus will be back shortly, however, not before a great tribulation. Anyway, imo.

TexasPGRRider

If this is the beginning of a smear campaign against Catholicism, Christianity, and Believers everywhere, the hypocrisy shall be evident to a global audience. Meanwhile the islamists behead the “infidels”….

NPC

Tex, in my opinion the entire world is at each others throat for one reason or an other.
Everybody wants to be an authority on somebody else’s business, and that is especially in the world of religion. It has always been this way, the only difference today is that the advances of the electronic media shoves it in our face, without let up. Don’t expect it to ease up anytime soon. It’s now part of our lives.

true but if you can’t keep a vow as a priest what makes you think a man will keep a vow if he’s married? BTW.that’s not all scripture says:”Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom it is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it” (Matt. 19:11–12). Paul was saying it ws better to marry than to give into immorality. BTW> Eastern Catholic priests may marry as are some Anglicans. Finally,marriage for priests would not keep men from being pedophiles or gay or anything else. It has its own set of problems as does celibacy. What matters is that people keep the vows of their vocation(single,married or religious.)Here’s a newflash SINGLE Catholics(ALL Christians)are supposed to remain ‘celibate’ until and if they marry anyway. Priests are not banned. It’s a discipline,not a dogma. If a man does not feel he is called then he is always free to marry or remain single. This is another off the wall news story meant to do damage to the Church. Why do they bother?

57thunderbird

Unless the priest or the man has faith in Christ and trusts and obeys him,there is no guarantee that they will keep their vows.

yeah the media can’t contain itself.
delete the copies. not sure what happened there. they were supposed to be replies and it didn’t work out that way. I’m moving along. this story is not worth further comment. Tune into EWTN. apt to get more accurate and HONEST information.

NPC

I feel the same way as you do.
For the media it’s job security. There are no limits on what they can, and will put out anymore. Common sense, integrity, professionalism,and honesty are things of the past. They all want their five minutes in the spotlight.

proudhispanicconservative

If this report is true, it explains the church’s liberal leanings, why else would you explain how the church instead of letting their parishioners know what Obummer did to them with the mandate on Obama Care, and why they dont call out the people that vote for democrats which is the party of Planned Parenthood and abortion on demand. One of the reasons I left the catholic church was because of their liberal and pacifist mentality.

sDee

I believe the Catholic Church is a last stand. Evil has infiltrated but we cannot abandon her.

Why the Catholic Church does not stand against islam remains a disturbing mystery to me. It is troubling that no churches do, but there is no other with both the resolve and the reach of the Catholic Church, to do anything about islam.

proudhispanicconservative

WHAT IS DISAPPOINTING IS HOW THEY JUST SIT BACK, AND NOT FIGHT AT ALL

Mary Sieg

I read something recently, sDee about how the Vatican is trying to address Muslims and their attack on Christians around the world. Sorry but I can’t remember where I read it.

The Catholic Church cannot stand against Islam because it does not embrace the full gospel. RCC theology puts man’s ability on a pedestal. Historically, every single desire to reform the church has met with dismal failure (one exception: Gregory the Great) due to the fact that as someone else has mentioned it is about power, politics, and prestige.

RCC cannot stand against something that they claim worships the same God. By the way, many churches do stand against Islam and call it for what it is, including many of the Protestant faith.

n2dstormwego

Here’s the report by Fr. Dariusz Oko, Ph.D. “With the Pope against the Homoheresy”.

The article you linked has a clear and balanced story of how homosexual groups have operated in the Catholic church. It gives names and documents evidence.

The sad thing is that some of the abuse victims, essentially fatherless boys, became abuser priests themselves.

Sadder still, the advocacy groups for victims are pro-gay and theologically non-Biblical and liberal. This is tragic because science and statistics show that homo-bi-etc. sexual practice is deadly and drastically increases incidence of all STDs, cancers, injuries, violence, suicide and other mental health issues.

Same-sex attraction is a symptom, of pain, trauma and needs to be healed, not mistaken for one’s identity.

That the priests were infected with same-sex attraction, unable to minister in a healthy way to fatherless boys is the greatest tragedy of the Roman Catholic Church.

Child sex slaves are also part of Islamic culture. Many of the child sex, drug and porn rings are run by Islamic groups. Bin Laden had a huge stash of porn. Pakistan has the greatest consumption of porn in the world.

Children are brutally wounded by sexual, physical and emotional abuse whether it is violent or not. Many turn to drugs, sex and porn to try to soothe and numb the pain. They grow up to become communist dictators, Islamist leaders or psychologists, or pastors/priests and some commit the same crimes that were perpetrated against them.

opinionatedhermit

Unfortunately, … The [my] Church has a long and not so distinguished history of being in some serious need for the gift of self reflection…..I can only wish we had a Tea Party….

xjesterx

Can I just point something out that I really can’t stand?

How quick Christians are to come out and destroy each other!

I know there are a lot of Christians who belong to Protestant churches, or they have decided to forego “religion”…meaning any organized church, and there are many Christians who belong to the Catholic church. Where we pray is everyone’s right under God. We have the choice as given by Him.

But for pity’s sake, can Christians stop bashing Christians? I see WAY to many people bashing Catholics, and WAY to many Catholics bashing Protestants. ALL are Christians. I’ve visited churches where the pastors openly talk about Catholics like they were mormons or something. I’ve also had Catholic friends talk about Protestants burning in hell for not being in the “right” church.

The Catholic church is a huge organization, and with that there will always be problems. If there are problems that are illegal, then they should be dealt with swiftly and without reservation. But the vast majority of people and priests and nuns are not lost and going to hell. There is a lot of good done by those people. (Mother Theresa?)

Now is NOT the time for Christians to be arguing among themselves about who has a right to heaven, and who is going to hell. The liberals don’t divide and conquer among themselves, and neither should we.

(Disclosure: This coming from a Catholic who has a LOT of problems with the church, including how the Bishops welcomed Obamacare turning their backs on so many in their flock only to cry for help when it came back to bite them.)

911Infidel

No one is bashing anyone. That’s what’s making the news.

Conniption Fitz

Seeking and telling the truth is not bashing – it is a way of cleansing and refining the church (all denominations) by fire so that those who have sinned may repent.

Look at Scripture – GOD never covered the sins of great religious leaders – Moses, Aaron, etc. God didn’t cover up problems and sins in the early Church. Only God never sins. Humans need transparency and repentance and forgiveness.

One does have to be careful but I am also tired of the “will Christians stop bashing each other” syndrome. If you are married, do you agree with your spouse 100% of the time? Nonetheless, I have always made it clear that the argument is not against an individual but against the theological tenants of the institution that are problematic.

Doctrine is important. One cannot be a Christian and not accept doctrine. And, since doctrine is foundational to salvation, it is imperative to have right doctrine. Paul writes to both Titus and Timothy to teach and defend sound doctrine. The sad truth is that most who claim to be RCC’s do not know their church’s doctrine nor do they care. As well, there is a great increase in Protestants that have no clue as to what they protest. So, you get people from both sides yelling at each other over things that they themselves do not understand.

Needless to say, the RCC has many issues theologically that if practice puts them outside of orthodoxy. However, that is not to say that individuals and even priests may preach and proclaim the gospel. It is why there is a small shall I say division (read denomination) within the RCC call RCC evangelicals, whatever that is.

NPC

We need to forgive them, ‘for they know not what they do’.

NPC

Regarding all your points given, in a nutshell, Satan is having a ball. If we can’t see through all of what’s going on, it’s better that we sit back and reflect what we’re doing to ourselves. But don’t worry, God will sort it all out, we do the best we can, while we can, and He’ll take care of the rest. Stick to your faith and your belief, let others do “their thing”, we don’t have to partake.

This poorly researched article inaccurately states that Celestine V was the last pope to resign before Benedict XVI. Actually, it was Gregory XII, who resigned in July 1415. As for the present, it has been revealed that Benedict XVI is in worse health than had been previously known. Back when Pope John Paul II was very ill and unable to perform his duties, Cardinal Ratzinger resolved that, if he were ever in that position, he would resign.

911Infidel

That’s what an Italian paper is saying. You can send them a response if you like. But I can recall from my many years as a Catholic that the Italian papers were pretty reliable.

This poorly researched article inaccurately states that Celestine V was the last pope to resign before Benedict XVI. Actually, it was Gregory XII, who resigned in July 1415. As for the present, it has been revealed that Benedict XVI is in worse health than had been previously known. Back when Pope John Paul II was very ill and unable to perform his duties, Cardinal Ratzinger resolved that, if he were ever in that position, he would resign.

Think back to the sudden demise of Pope John Paul 1 and Roberto Calvi, known as “God’s Banker”. He was found hanging under Waterloo Bridge (I think is was this bridge) before the Pope “died.” Again, a massive coverup of Vatican wrongdoings, all related to money and money laundering. http://www.economist.com/node/21558249 There is still speculation as to how Pope John Paul 1 died and who actually did the deed.

I’m not defending the Church, the Pope or anyone involved, all I am doing is laying out other scenarios, along with this one, as to why Pope Benedict is resigning.

To be honest, no one, save the Pope himself, will know the real reasons why this resignation came about, we can speculate til the cows come home, but as “xjesterx: said below, “Now is NOT the time for Christians to be arguing among themselves about who has a right to heaven, and who is going to hell. The liberals don’t divide and conquer among themselves, and neither should we.”

Speculate all you want, but, as you do, the liberal elite is continuing to divide and conquer right thinking conservatives.

1endtimes2020

It doesn’t surprise me. When I was younger, I remember parishioners at my church debating if it would be acceptable to include homosexuals into the priestwood. Homosexuals said the temptations they had would be much less if they were celibate. People were concerned the screening was not good enough, and it was a ploy to be able to penetrate the Church and destroy it from within. When voting was taking place the last time, a CNN reporter was told by the spokesman for the Vatican that the world had no idea of the struggle between left and right that was going on inside the Vatican. 200 years ago, Freemasons said the best way to destroy the Vatican was from within. Now we have this report about gay activists.
Infiltration is not unique to the Vatican, but it was protected when it was traditional and conservative. In the early 1960s the Vatican 2 became much more liberal. This had been a warning from previous Popes for centuries, due to the slippery slope.
Infiltration exists, militarily—the Chinese army recently being found out re cyber attacks, hacking and in the governments, i e, muslims in the White House.
Enemies of the Catholic Church knew if they could give the Church a bad name, it would turn a lot of people away from the Church. People will do that, not thinking that all the good works the Church does can be forgotten by a few infiltrators.
As far as being forced to resign. it’s possible, but it would mean the next Pope could be one that will not be the best. If Pope Benedict resigned for truly health reasons. then there’s a chance the next Pope will be a good one. Time will tell, sometime during this year.

911Infidel

Homosexuality is not a new problem in the Catholic Church. It was problem 40 years ago and before that. It was kept quiet cause back in the day anyone questioning anything in the Catholic Church was told to keep quiet upon pain of retribution. This is what kept children from turning in their abusers. And then some of the priests and brothers died of AIDS and some of children came forward and like in my parish growing up, all of the priest minus one guy were arrested for pedophilia and the bloom was off the rose.

1endtimes2020

It makes me sad and mad that this sort of thing could happen.
I’m glad that I didn’t have to go through any experiences like that.
I would like to believe that those episodes were rare, because of all my relatives, I have never heard of anything to do with homosexuality being experienced by even one person. As I said before, there was infiltration in the Church as there are infiltrators in other institutions.
I remember an acquaintance meeting up with me downtown where I lived. I had never been a friend, but we knew of each other, just as someone who went to the same school. When we met, it was a recognition, only. He invited me to his place and we had a beer together, talking about the school, and teachers, etc. Suddenly, he started to become a bit aggressive with his touchings. I left right away, feeling disappointed. Months later, I remembered what he did for work. He worked at a foster home for young children.
I’m not saying he took advantage of any of those young boys, but it goes to show, just the same, how people can infiltrate where they don’t belong.

911Infidel

Yep. Well I got another post that may go up that will blow your mind. First hand testimony of corruption and scandal in the parishes that I frequented in my youth. Homosexualty is nothing new in the Catholic Church. Its been going on a loooooong time.Bad things happen in other churches is true, But homosexuality and corruption is an institutional thing in the Catholic Church and has been so for a very long time. This corruption is what convinced me to leave. I wanted Christ not secular humanist tripe that follows a corrupt interpretation of Christ and His teachings. I don’t do catechism anymore, I do Scripture. I prefer the Oracles of God over the false wisdom of man. Just be advsed if Scoop lets me post my article its going pi$$ off a lot of people. Like I keep saying, truth is a b_tch. Life experience doesn’t lie. Unless a man is born again he cannot see the kingdom of heaven. Its a simple and uncomplicated warning from the noble “I Am”. Its a wonder to me why so few choose the narrow path to life.

Conniption Fitz

Be careful. Earlier, I put up a post about what has gone on in the church in my area, the US and world and it was removed.

Yes, 1endtimes, I have never experienced the corruption either, nor any of my family members or schoolmates either, for that matter. Men corrupt the church, the church didn’t corrupt the man. I still love my catholic faith. Now the Catholic Church has a movement called “Catholics come home” for people like me who felt long ago that they no longer belonged due to divorce, etc. I feel very accepted and wouldn’t want to be some other faith, …mainly because I was raised Catholic. I love learning about other faiths and cultures, find it very interesting. ….except for Muslims. I know as much as I need to know about them.

badbadlibs

I wonder if this isn’t an understandable outcome of a faith (doesn’t matter the name on the religion) that doesn’t call sin a sin?
I understand the Catholic belief that it isn’t a sin to be homosexual, but to act on that inclination is the sin?
The Bible is very clear that homosexuality is an abomination in the site of God.
I don’t see the distinction between acting on it or not.

911Infidel

Me neither. Jesus said to first clean the cup on the inside, then the outside will be claen as well. its pretty straightforward teaching.

I have been reading about that. Scary. And the front runner for being the next pope is named Peter…a black man from Africa. Prophecy says the popes are numbered and that this next one No. 112 will be the last one. Don’t know how much I believe of it…but it is interesting.

white531

I wish the Catholic Church was not so corrupt, but in spite of what I wish, it is. Most of you who would like to defend it, as something pure throughout history, need to read a little more history.

In deference to those Catholics among us, some of who are my friends, I will go no further.

I believe we need to forget about all the different denominations of Christianity, and just concentrate on the teachings of Jesus. The pure teachings of Jesus.

Years ago, I lived in Wickenburg, Arizona. I had the privilege of knowing both a neighbor and a friend, in the same person. Being the friends we were, we talked about a lot of things, religion included. I asked him one time, how he thought his belief affected his life.

His answer still lives with me this day, though I have not seen him for twenty years. Life is like that. He said, “whenever I am faced with a problem, and I have to make a decision, I pray, and I ask God what the best course might be. He never fails me. Somehow, I always make the right decision.

That simple description, is the best I ever heard in my lifetime, for defining true faith. He is one of the best human beings I ever knew.

He and his wife operated a senior care center in Wickenburg, under the name of, “My Father’s House.” The name pretty much says it all.

I also like this message. Someone once said to me in the midst of controversy, “Jesus did not say I had to know all the answers to every question. He just said I had to get up and walk with Him every day.” This has been on my mind ever since, and I am often convicted to remind myself, “Am I walking with Him today?” despite whatever answers I think I must have. Personal responsibility.

I think is also likely true that there is probably a parallel amount of sin, including corruption, in the protestant church, yet with 30,000 denominations it is not tracked as easily.

I don’t believe the Catholic Church is corrupt. Sure there were times when there were episodes when some may have gone too far, or whatever, But the vast majority ofmembers of the Church made a lot of sacrifices, were martyred, and did a tremendous amount of good, and still do. I never experienced any corruption in all the churches I attended, all my life. It isn’t fair to paint the whole church for the errors of a small percentage. King Henry the 8th did more harm to the name of Christianity, singlehanded, than any Pope did throughout history, but somehow, he gets ‘a pass’.

Conniption Fitz

That is an exaggeration. At least Henry VIII and James I allowed the Bible to be published in English so the people could read, digest and understand.

Thank GOD for the English Reformation and the European Reformation. It was much needed.

1endtimes2020

Oh, I see; it was okay for Henry to kill his wives, as long as he published the bible in English. Obviously, the translation didn’t help his wives any.

Conniption Fitz

Didn’t say that…King H8 was a tyrant, sick man and murderer. But no less so than the church officials who were burning Christians and sincere reformers to death right and left.

It’s pretty clear that he was looking for a good time to resign for quite some time. His brother George is also a retired priest and they have long planned to quietly retire together.

B16’s accomplishments are profound and now they are secure and complete forever.

RighteousCrow_JustCaws

“…absolute power corrupts absolutely.” – Lord Acton, 1887.
A widespread application in today’s world. I’ll take a mix of strong and weak, good and bad, exalted and flawed any day – choose a blended mutt over most purebreds for a balanced disposition and sensible results.

TLaMana

I look at the Vatican as a religious mafia. They have been after money and power for centuries. The whole Spanish Inquisition was nothing but a money and power grab. I do not condemn the Catholic religion, just the administration.

1endtimes2020

You have to look at the cause too. The people rose up when they were being persecuted and executed first. Just as he Spanish did during th Spanish Civil War. The Crusades didn’t happen for the fun of it, but because the Catholics were being attacked and it all went too far, and people had enough. In both instances, the ‘administrators’
at the Vatican, had to intervene to put a stop to it.
Look at how the Catholic church is attacked today. Do you think it’s possible the coptic catholics will have had enough of muslim terrorists, and Islamic cult one day?
It’s interesting how King Henry 8 can murder his wives and start his own ‘mafia’ and still get a pass.
Jesus told his disciples they would be persecuted, and the descendants experienced it also, with martyrdom and all sorts of devilish attacks.
Infiltrators were always a threat to destroy the church from within, and still is. Jesus said ‘if they persecute you, remember they persecuted me first’, and He also said that we should be faithful to the end, and His church will prevail.
If you really believe in Jesus, you will know that he would not want you to be so unloving toward the church He initiated.
Do you ever acknowdge all the good things the church does, and the members who are your neighbors.??? C’mon now. Take a look in your own mirror once in a while.

Conniption Fitz

Don’t white wash Roman Catholic history. It’s shameful, filled with blood, torture and corruption, power-mongering and political intrigue, sexual deviance and promiscuity. Look up what they did to those who dissented from their practices of fleecing the sheep. Look up the Waldensians.

Thank GOD for Henry VII if it allowed the Roman church to be divested of some of its much-abused power.
Henry was a tyrant, but at least he allowed the Bible to be read in English, and James I allowed it to be published in English.

Thank GOD for Wycliffe, Tyndale, Hus, Luther, Calvin, Ridley, Latimer and others who died standing up to the tyranny of the Roman Church.

TLaMana

That is why I don’t condemn all Catholics. SOME of them do good work. Others get away with crimes that would land anyone else in jail. There are true Christians and then there are those that call themselves Christian but fail the test on a daily basis.

I don’t believe in the axom of “Too big to fail”, I believe in Too Big to NOT fail.

notsofastthere

You’re correct. Power corrupts and any organization run by human beings is prone to deceit. We find corruption in sports, the media, government, religious organizations, and police departments. This does not mean that the ‘idea’ of the organization is bad.
As in America, when people find out those running the government are corrupt – we throw them out but don’t disband the entire government.

1endtimes2020

Exactly. When Christ hands out His justice, it will be for all, and not one will escape, including those who tried to destroy His church, even from within.

Mary Sieg

Yes, absolutely. Well said.

PhillyCon

This is one of the best posts on this thread. Thank you for injecting some rationality.

We throw them out? Since when? If this past election is any indicator, it would seem that we then are deeply in love with and in bed with corruption from the highest position of power in the US government.

Yet, we cannot forget that the “idea” of an organization could be the very reason why it is corrupt in the first place.

notsofastthere

I should have said we CAN throw them out. That won’t happen if the public is apathetic, ignorant, or single issue voters. We don’t always take the opportunities available to us to be informed, and a con game can always exist.
Power corrupts and all of us have an innate ability for self-indulgence. That’s why we need others to keep it as honest as possible.

The source is the Guardian…a newspaper know for not only being Pro-Islamist, but blames everything on Israel. No wonder leftists in this country love it so much!

dontdrinkthecoolaid

To paraphrase Margaret Thatcher: Nothing in The Guardian is true.

57thunderbird

That is good enough for me.I have great respect for Miss Thatcher.

1endtimes2020

Yes, and the descendant of King Henry 8th, Queen Elizabeth, took an oath to be “Defender of the Faith”. Her son, Charles, said, a few years ago, that the Queen was now the defender of the faiths—that’s with an ‘s’. It isn’t just defender of Christianity anymore.
King Henry would be pleased? Well, maybe not…but he would see how his grave sins of murder,and starting his own church, led to the slippery slope displayed by The Guardian,and so many other traitors of Christianity.

Betsey_Ross

Hold it! I can’t let this go on. Elizabeth was Henry VIII’s daughter. She had no children. Yes, she was Defender of the Faith. Yes, she took it seriously. Henry changed the religious landscape because he didn’t want to follow Catholic dogma not because he was some great reformer. He murdered more than just his wives. He went after everyone that didn’t succomb to his will as far has his new ‘church’ was concerned. When he died his daughter Mary, did the same only she reversed the process. She was back on the Catholic side which was opposite of her father. She also murdered folks for not being Catholic. To say these two were confused is an understatement. Until Elizabeth I showed up it was pretty scary living in 16th century England. She was very liberal(in a good way) about religion. She left them all alone to practice what they needed to paractice.

So the new church and Catholicism existed as freely as possible back then. The Churches themselves were not corrupt, but the people that ran them, worked in them, strove for power in them were the problem not the Church itself. It was the humans that are having the problems, not the Church. It’s the humans that seem to be fighting the word of God. Isn’t that why we go to church—-to strive to be better people? The work goes on.

Hence the historic label “Bloody Mary”. I also think people tend to forget how many English Catholics participated in all four Crusades.

Well said Betesy!

1endtimes2020

I agree with both of you…. The misunderstanding of the ‘Elizabeths’ notwithstanding.

1endtimes2020

I wasn’t talking about Henry’s daughter; I am referring to the Queen Elizabeth of 2013. It was her son, Prince Charles, that said his mother was the Defender of the Faiths–plural, meaning muslims also, that are causing mischief in dear old England—with threats—in front of the police—as if they were the ones that developed England since the Magna Carta. I have spoken to several families from England, and they are appalled at the direction England is going.

Conniption Fitz

One very elementary error in the Guardian story – the author got the Commandments wrong.

The Commandments against adultery and stealing are the 7th and 8th respectively. The 6th is Thou shalt not kill/murder.

Amjean

It is not the religion itself that is corrupt. It is always the men running
the organization, if you will. Who, like our politicians, are in it for the
power and perks and to be rulers over others.

If anyone didn’t believe in the work of the devil before, perhaps in these
times it is time to take a second look.

1endtimes2020

The Catholic church and other denominations may not have always been perfect, according to what Jesus expected, but in comparison to Islam, it is.

Mary Sieg

Applause to that. All Christian churches are wonderful in my view…and they all have their own “spin” on things. But the fundamentals, the 10 commandments, love of God and Charily….all good. I even have 2 Buddhist friends….one from China and one from Sri Lanka….beautiful, gracious people. It’s their religion and I respect that, and they respect mine. And, by the way, they say Merry Christmas at Christmastime, even tho they don’t believe Jesus as Savior. Islam is the devil…the Anti-Christ’s church.

1endtimes2020

I agree. There is, however, that one very important qualification for entry into heaven that Jesus insisted on; “NO one goes to the Father, but by me”. That’s the key, no matter how nice people are.
Jesus said the whole world had to have heard the Good News (and make their decisions) before the Judgement.

Mary Sieg

And I believe that with all my heart. I pray for my friends who are not Christians. I also speak freely about Christianity with them.

I’m sorry but let us not compare anything to Islam and call it good. The only standard is Scripture and with that RCC theology falters. Just in case, there are Protestant churches as well and movements that claim to be protestant. However, if one does not accept the 5 Solas, I find it hard to think them protestant.

Mary Sieg

Absolutely. I love our catholic church here in the little town I live in. I like the fellowship of other members, although I do not follow all the beliefs of the church. I especially enjoy the lenten season, Easter Mass. It is a time that I feel especially close to my Jesus.

NPC

Amjean you got your finger right on the pulse, I just wrote Tex similar to what you’re saying, Satan is having a ball. And laughing all the way to Hell. This part sounds weird.
I’m getting away from this particular subject, there won’t be anything accomplished here , anytime soon. This is getting too deep.
I’ll keep some responses to my self.

You don’t have to go out on a limb to express your opinion, as long as your conscience is clear.

Conniption Fitz

No doubt the homo-bi-whatever sexualists are growing louder and more powerful inside the church as they are outside.

Whatever happens, the true Church, Catholic and Protestant, will not deny Scripture, science, statistics and evidence in the lives of those who practice sexual sin (homo/hetero/porn, etc.) and embrace the pansexual activists agenda which is the removal of all constraint and morality.

In sexual matters, the evidence in science and real life lines up with Scripture.

To eliminate moral conscience is the goal of the communist/fascist/totalitarian agendites along with abortion and devaluing human life so that abortion and euthanasia are merely choices, ‘bumps in the road’ and people can be eliminated without any conscience whatsoever if they happen to disagree with your ideology and goals…such as global tax, taking over a country. Genocide is just ‘advancing cohesion’ or ‘re-aligning people groups.’ or some such ‘leftist speak’ propaganda.

Another clear explanation about Pope Benedict XVI and the homosexual issue here:
“Pope Benedict has long been concerned about homosexual behavior, taking the stance that there are different kinds of homosexuals. In 1975 he issued the “Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics” which delineated a difference between transitory and pathological homosexuality. However, even in denouncing homosexual behavior, he called for empathy and compassion from followers. He denounced violence of speech and action against homosexuals in “The Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons.”

Despite his call for compassion, he has not stepped down from his stance that homosexuality is a moral evil. He stated that the inclination toward homosexuality is not necessarily a sin, it can be considered a “tendency toward an intrinsic moral evil, and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.” He continued, “A person engaging in homosexual behavior therefore acts immorally,” because he feels that sex is only good if framed in the stance of being for procreation between a married man and woman.

Pope Benedict is not the only Pope or Vatican member that has denounced homosexuality. In 1961 the Vatican discouraged church officials against ordination of homosexuals, because they were “afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty.” Currently the Roman Catholic church has strict limitations on allowing homosexuals to become members of the clergy, and it also continues to fight the legal recognition of homosexual couples.”http://christianteens.about.com/od/homosexuality/f/RomCathHomosexu.htm

This Pope seems to have stood against the deceptions of this age and for the truth in Scripture, science, medicine and statistics despite the overwhelming pressure from many groups within and outside the church. He did try to remove those who promoted gay-ness and covered up abuse. However, there are powerful political parties and persons in the Roman hierarchy…he is but one against many.

An association of doctors, who focused on researching only homosexuality for over 35 years, put out a report, a few years ago, saying there was no ‘gay’ gene. I sent many letters out to editors and governments, and was ignored. I wrote to the president of that association, to ask him why that was, and he answered me with only one word “Politics”.
see http://www.narth.com The National Association and Research and Treatment of Homosexuality. Last year the government in California banned that association from treating young teenagers. It’s okay to indoctrinate them in the schools, in favor of homosexual acceptance, which can influence their minds and confuse their gender thinking, but not be able to seek sound, professional, non-religious assistance.
The devil is at work everywhere. Today, if you are accused of ‘homophobia and hate’ and brought up in front of a human rights court, you can quote ‘Narth’, and you will win. The courts don’t want to mess around with professional doctors.
Ever wonder if heterophobia exists? Men afraid of interaction with women? God did not create several sexual categories of human beings, but the devil tries to say He did. Homosexual sodomy is still the same sin as it was in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah, and in the days of Noah, and the Roman Empire, and the good ‘ol USA, that is bringing terrorists through our doors like in the days of the Trojan Horse—except there are many Trojan Horses, and many open fields.

Conniption Fitz

I have read and recommend Dr. Nicolosi’s books, articles and the NARTH organization. The work of NARTH is based on evidence in science and decades of clinical practice.

I can tell you the seminarians that train new priests are a heck of a lot better and meticulous at screening , now, than ever before, for a long time. Yhey tried the ‘understanding’ liberal way, and all it got them was a bad name from the enemies of Christianity, and from ‘low information Christians’ as well. Those days are now OVER.

gilleysuited

One question for Catholic posters, and I am in no way trying to diminish the religion. Why is it priest can not marry when the first pope of the church was married, St Peter.

Mary Sieg

I am catholic. I was always told, as a kid in parochial school, was so they could devote their entire life and energy to the church. Ever since the huge child abuse scandal came out, I have been hugely disappointed in how the church handled it. Much of the information now is hiddin at the Vatican. Locked away.

1endtimes2020

All Catholics were disappointed—an understatement. I wrote a lot of letters to the Bishops and to Rome, and I didn’t mince my words.
I’m telling you, the infiltration into the Vatican includes even Communists. We all know how the devil hates humans and wants to destroy all of us in any way he can.
As for the future of the Church. nothing that is bad lasts forever. We are approaching the time when things will be so horrific in the end, that Jesus will have to come and settle things down. He won’t let His creations be annihilated.

TLaMana

There is plenty locked away from the public inside the Vatican because it doesn’t jive with the Catholic church.

Who has the largest collection of Pagan artifacts and doctorian? The Vatican.

1endtimes2020

I like your question. The answer is that a married man has to focus on both his family and the denomination of hundreds and even thousands of individuals in his congregation. He can’t do both as well as just the focus on his work for Christ.
Some men can live with that and others can’t. It isn’t up to me to say what others are capable of doing or not. I know it’s easier to avoid sex if it isn’t started in the first place, but the men who stay celibate, do so to imitate Jesus, who was, of course, celibate.
I don’t think Peter was married, but if he was, he didn’t live very long to fulfill it.

The Apostle Peter? He had nothing to do with Catholicism, and biblical accounts show he spent very little time in Rome. On top of that, Apostle Peter was an Apostle that never started any church, much less set himself up as a king in one.

I’ve read the Texus Receptus, multiple times, and that is not true. Jesus was never recorded as starting a single church, and that wasn’t why He was here, anyway.

1endtimes2020

I don’t expect the head of the church—a Pope—to lie.
I’ll take him at his word. Apparently, he made his decision in March 2012 while in Mexico.

cabensg

Conspiracy stories already abound especially from the left. Also the Vatican will protect itself with secrecy. We’re left to believe what ever we want to believe according to our like or dislike of Catholicism.

1endtimes2020

The Vatican has been overly discreet, to say the least, about revealing what has been the ‘3rd secret’ regarding the Virgin Mary at Fatima in 1917. So much evaluation has been done on this topic that a conclusion has been reached that the 3rd secret is the persecution of the Church brought upon itself for not consecrating Russia.
see http://www.fatima.org. This will end very soon, and we all hope the new Pope will be the one that fulfills the request of the consecration of Russia. WEhenever that happens, it will be very obvious to the world that a big change has taken place in the hearts and minds of the people and leaders of that country. This will result in obtaining “peace for a time”. as Mary described it.
We’ll find out very soon just what kind of Pope he will be.
Let’s not rush to conclusions, or speculation; just take a wait see attitude.

57thunderbird

To be honest,the Vatican and Catholic church have no effect on my life,so whether true or not it has zero effect on my walk of faith.

Mary Sieg

You are so right, 57Tbird. I also don’t think I/you have to go to church at all to be a good Christian. It’s all about your walk with God. Amen.

57thunderbird

Amen Mary.We do need to fellowship with other believers occasionally.It is very tough to be a lone ranger Christian.But sometimes organized religion(denominations)can be a detriment.The true church is in your heart.

1endtimes2020

It’s true but there’s a fellowship with like minded people I enjoy, and the most important aspect of all—partaking in Holy Communion. It is truly the body and blood of Jesus Christ, and Jesus said those who do not partake in this gift ‘have no life in them.’
Our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit. God bought our bodies on the cross. Without Him taking all our sins away, we would all be condemned. This is huge.
When women say they can do whatever they want with their bodies,, and abort their own flesh and blood, as seen on an ultra sound, alive and kicking, they don’t realize their bodies belong to God. God gave them the privilege and the gift of being co-creators with God of new souls. The devil talks to those women, and we better not dare to tell them the truth of the purpose of their existence.–oh, but we do have the responsibility to speak up. That way, they cannot say they didn’t know. Science also shows abortions excite and throw the cells in a tailspin. It is in shock. Later in life, a woman could have a stillborn, a defective child, and even cancer. This is the new science that no media will print. CNN included—all those nice people who avoid anything to do with God, as if it would bring on a plague.

57thunderbird

But communion can be taken amongst any group of believers.Does not have to be given by a man of the cloth.And should not be taken if one has an unrepentant heart.

DebbyX

…………..excite and throw the cells in a tailspin……….? There’s a description I’ve never heard. What on earth is that supposed to mean? I have stated here before, that I have 2 close friends who have put themselves in the unfortunate situation of having abortions, a long, long time ago. They suffer from enough guilt and shame without adding the sadness of a stillborn or God forbid CANCER to their anguish.

I really dislike when people (not necessarily you) in their moral superiority, preach about the evil that IS abortion. I can put a face to it and know the depth of their regret. They don’t need the guilt of a disease like cancer to know the wrong they’ve done to both themselves and the unborn.

badbadlibs

You’re a woman, I’m a woman. We have something at stake in the matter of abortion and what it does to the physical body and the spiritual aspects of us women.
I don’t believe it’s necessarily “moral superiority” that is speaking when hidden scientific truths are pointed out.
I believe it’s a huge disservice to women in general not to warn them of what could lie ahead for them if they have an abortion.

The abortion breast cancer link is real but hidden from women. And that’s to the shame of all that participate in allowing the health risks to remain hidden.
The risk for women who have had an abortion before having a full term pregnancy or even a natural miscarriage are significantly higher. They should know. Forewarned is forearmed. I counsel women who had abortions to be villagent in their health screenings. I’m not condemning them, I want them to keep their health.

Au Contraire my friend. They do have an effect. Millions of Catholics worldwide that follow the Pope and use his teachings and that effects their voting, polcies, etc. Pope John Paul II effected you when he helped Reagan end the Cold War.

Nothing would really surprise me when it comes to papal intrigue at the Vatican. After all, these are the same people that made a Borgia a pope. Also, there were a lot of rumors that Pope John Paul I (the pope that died only a few weeks after being made pope and was succeeded by the Polish John Paul II) was murdered because he wanted to institute some financial reforms at the Vatican. So this story here wouldn’t surprise me one bit.

MadAsHellJack

The same thing is wrong with the Catholic Church as is with America. The left has taken over both. The Church threw out the Bible long ago and thus its continuing downfall.

57thunderbird

I will never understand any church that changes to meet modern standards.In the scripture God says,”I am the Lord your God.I change not.I am the same yesterday,today,and tomorrow.Pretty much sums up that the church should remain steadfast in their belief regardless of changing times.

MadAsHellJack

@57thunderbird, AMEN! I am in my mid 60s and I was raised a Catholic. I went to Catholic grade school and high school. Over the course of my life I cannot believe the changes in the church. And to me none of them have been good. All of the changes have been a concession to the leftists in the church. I believe it is Satan’s work.

57thunderbird

I respect your opinion as a parishoner of the Catholic church.Any time I want to say something concerning the Catholic church,I feel as though I am walking on eggshells.I know there are many faithful Christians that belong and I don’t want to give the impression that I am criticizing them.I think they have a serious leadership problem,as do many other churches.Men/women are fallible creatures.Thus the need for a Savior.

Mary Sieg

I also am catholic, MadAsHellJack….went to catholic school also. I agree with all you have said. I stopped going to confession years ago….I like to think I have a “direct line to God” thru prayer to confess my sins…..especially after finding out how sinful some of THEM were. Also, (I’m 60 now), went thru a bad divorce in my 20’s…my spouse at that time abandoned me and my 2 small children…at the time I needed my church the most, I was abandoned again by the church…told I couldn’t take communion, etc. I stayed away for years but have in the last several years returned to church , although I still do not follow all the beliefs. I was a good kid, too…played the music at mass every week, etc. But felt like a 2nd class citizen once I became divorced. I am remarried now to a great guy….have been for 35 years. He is catholic but we were not allowed to marry in the church because they still see me as married to that first guy – who was not catholic. In the churches eyes, I must get an annulment before we can get married in the church. BS. I had children by that marriage and don’t want some piece of paper that says it never happened. The church has become corrupt, just like DC. You are right.

MadAsHellJack

Mary I feel your pain. I am also divorced and there is no help for me as far as the church is concerned. I however don’t care what they think as Jesus Christ is my Savior no matter what the Catholic church says.

Mary Sieg

Hi MadAsHellJack – I just wanted to say to you that for me – the peace came from within me….between me and my Jesus. For a long time I did not take communion and then stopped going to church….for years. I prayed about it a lot. I decided that God does want me to partake in that sacrament and have been taking communion ever since. I also do not feel guilty doing it. I follow Gods laws, not those set before me by other mortal humans who have as much sin as I do. That is also why I don’t believe in “confession” thru a priest. I get great peace from the sacrament of communion and am so glad I made that choice. I don’t care what others may say…my husband and I both take communion…we were not married in the church, but both were raised catholic. We even thought about changing religions, but then decided that we were more comfortable staying with the church we were raised with. I know just how you must feel. At a time in our life when we needed our church the most, they made us feel sinful and unworthy..abandoned in our darkest hour. That is not what God wants us to feel. All men are sinners. I hope you will consider continueing to practice your faith and not to let these mortal “rules” keep you from it. God Bless.

1endtimes2020

My dear nother has said several times, she never thought the Catholic church would abandon its centuries-long traditional conservatism, as it did at Vatican 2. Not in her lifetime. So many elderly just go along with things, not realizing anything. Younger people are easy to instruct.
But, we’ll endure to the end, and better days are yet to come.

sarahsupporter

The smoke of satan has indeed entered the catholic church. Satan is trying to tear it down. He will not succeed.

1endtimes2020

The last time an election was taking place at the Vatican—the one Pope Benedict won— a spokeman from the Vatican told a CNN reporter “People have no idea of the struggle going on within the Vatican”. Good people fight for the good of their home, family and communities. The same is taking place in the Vatican. If all was about to be lost, you can be certain those good people would shout out to the world all that is going on.

jollyjellybean

Um, The Catholic Church threw out the Bible??? That’s news to this lifelong Catholic. Stop getting your information about the Catholic Church from the secular news media, and let the Church speak for herself. It’s astonishing how ignorant so many people are (including many who profess to be Catholic) about what the Church teaches. (I’m not talking about rouge individuals, I’m referring th the Magesterium,and the Deposit of Faith left by Jesus carried throughby Apostolic succession, always guided by the Holy Spirit) If you take on a serious and truthful investigation, you will laugh at yourself when you see the Truth. Really, you’ll be EMBARASSED at how far off the mark you have been. Pray for discernment. And Wisdom. Ask and you shall recieve.

MadAsHellJack

I do not get my information from secular news outlets. I get it first hand. My 90 year old Mother who was one of the most devout Catholics I have ever seen will no longer go to Mass as she says God is no longer in attendance at Catholic churches. She says they have become hideouts for decadent pedophiles which has been condoned by the church for years…

We know how the Left wing media likes to twist the truth to their own ends.

So don’t fall for it.

Bunjy

Maybe more “straight” men would consider service in the Church if they were allowed to marry. In the Armenian church we have two tiers of priests. One can marry, but won’t make it up into the hierarchy, and the other cannot. It is the celibate that generally govern the church, but the married priests are the “robes on the ground”, so to speak, in the local churches. Just a thought.

No disrespect to the Catholic Church, however. Just thinking out loud from my personal observations.

jollyjellybean

“Seriously damning material???” lol. Don’t take the bait……Anti-Catholicism ignorance is alive and well in America I see. Oh well. God is going to have His Way. Regardless of the media approach to the Church Jesus Christ founded.

If you are talking about the catholic church (please note small ‘c’), I am in agreement. However, if you are talking about the RCC, then you may need to read up a bit more on their theology and history (please note: not talking about individuals but actual teaching/dogma).

JRD1

Yep, we must take down the church because Big Gumint is the only true religion! LOL!

Marxists ALL!

As a conservative female I just love it that those feminazi, dragon lady, abortion lovin’, oppressive bigots can’t be priests. God does have a sense of humor.

57thunderbird

All you need to do tho know God has a sense of humor is look in the mirror first thing in the morning immediately after rising from bed.Pretty funny.

It wouldn’t surprise me if this was true. The Catholic Church is certainly not a stranger to politics since it has been participating in them since it’s beginning. Insidious men, with the help of some ignorant women, long before most of us were born inserted the social justice movement into the Catholic Church and then married it to the culture. Before the Church knew what evil hit them it became too late. Now most of the Church’s time seems to be fighting forces within the Church instead of those outside of the Church. It’s a pity. I am not Catholic but I do respect Catholics and value them.

This article by a conservative clergy author discusses ‘gay’ activity and sexual abuse in the church and describes the Pope’s battle with the ‘gay network’ in the church hierarchy. It may be a source for the Guardian article above: http://www.churchmilitant.tv/documents/vort-2013-02-22.pdf

msverde1

“The Enemy from Within” has always been the most effective way to destroy an individual or institution by the degradation of moral judgment and good character, based on biblical principles. I have had conversations with fellow Catholics brothers and sisters who believe that the subject of abortion is a black and white issue while doing their best to interject the idea that homosexuality is gray, which for the latter yours truly does not understand nor accepts the logic. The gay community has always been on the search for ways to infiltrate and subvert the moral fabric of our great country and apparently believe that they have found a crack in the armor of Christ’s church, where upon Peter, His rock, He will build His church. Never forget the history of great nations in past years which have suffered at the hands of immoral subversiveness.

PAWatcher

Has the gay movement infiltrated the Catholic Bastions for a reason akin to the liberals infiltrating our schools or the muslims inflitrating our government…………..the results being a collapse of the enemy/resistance from within?
Coincidence obama has zeroed in on the Catholic Church, while promoting gays in every aspect of society?

white531

I wasn’t going to continue on this subject, because I have many Catholic friends, and I do believe the current Catholic Church for the most part represents true Christians and true Christian belief.

It is just that as I read these comments and arguments, because anything to do with Religion, is really an argument, I am somewhat disturbed that so few people actually read History.

The history of the Catholic Church is rife with objectionable behavior. How many people were murdered and raped during the Crusades? I’m not making this up. It is a part of World History. Popes had Concubines. Popes had children, for God’s sake! It was accepted as normal behavior Do your own research!

With the History of the Catholic Church being what it is, I am amused that any current criticism, is met with such outrageous anger, that any criticism of the Church is somehow forbidden. Let me give you a wake up call. No criticism of any religion is forbidden, and that includes Catholics and Muslims.

Let me soften up the mood of this conversation just a little bit. Abraham Lincoln was once asked by a reporter, (there were no Journalists in Lincoln’s day) “What is your Religion? Fully aware of the trap that was placed in front of him, Lincoln, in his wisdom replied, “When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That’s my Religion.”

I believe Lincoln pretty much summed it up. Let’s just treat each other the way God intended. Its not really complicated, when you think about it.

ApplePie101

The lesson in this is that when governments/organizations become absolutely powerful, they become corrupt, abusive, and tyrannical.

ApplePie101

If I understand the referenced Bible verses, they forbid homosexual activity, but don’t condemn homosexuals per se. Those who enter the priesthood or take holy orders must be celibate, no matter what their sexual orientation. What you lock up in your heart is a sacrifice to God.

This is a disturbing story (‘Corruption and scandal in the Catholic Church’), and I’m impressed with the strength of faith that could survive such a dark experience with religion. One can understand why many of those who go through the Catholic education system turn agnostic.