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Russia's impact on our election is not Obama's fault; Russia is to blame.

Now we can argue about what an appropriate response should have been, but we both know virtually anything Obama would have done would have been twisted by the other party and the Trump campaign, or thwarted by the Republican House and Senate.

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You sir...are absolutely right that any action taken by Obama would have been twisted by the other party and made to look like a political move.

My question is: And??????

I mean, isn't political wins one of the goals?

This goes right back to my original criticizm of Obama and his wimpy behavior in the face of Republican opposition.
Him and other Democrats were so frightened about what their Republican adversaries would do or think they were virtually paralyzed with fear.
Him and his unconditional supporters constantly invoked,"The Republicans won't let him do that"
.....to excuse his inactivity and weakness.

Republicans make moves not giving a damn HOW it looks.
They are more concerned about WINNING.

Do you think Trump cared how he looked when he fired Comey?
Especially to Democrats?

People say there's a civil war going on in Washington and I disagree with them, because a war is when BOTH sides are fighting.
For nearly 40 years Republican conservatives have been waging war and fighting dirty and the liberals and Democrats haven't really been fighting at all.

One of the reasons people liked Trump and George W. before him is because regardless of he atleast fights for his base and throws bones to them.

Obama had MORE than enough evidence as well as the entire Justice Department on his side to take action and hunt down everyone suspected of colluding with a foreign power to undermine the United States.

He had the evidence and the power to do his job, but refused to do so.

And because of his cowardice and inaction.....the United States may be heading to a place of no return.

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Your criticism is overkill. Did Obama really have to power to stop the Russians? What was he going to do? Threaten to bomb them if they didn't cease and desist? To a person with a hammer. everything is a nail - if he's irrational.

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First of all he didn't even ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that the Russians were helping the Republicans....a fact that he KNEW to be true but withheld the information and instruced his Justice Department to do the same.

Second, he could have secured the election and prosecuted all the people that were involved and detain all the people suspected of colluding with the Russians which would have included a large chunk of the Republican party and the Trump campaigne.

But he refused to do so, because he was frightened of what his political enemies the Republicans would "think" of him.

Who cares about the Democrats or the disenfranchised Black voters who were probably cheated out of their votes in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and other states by Republican manipulation of the voting ballot.
He's gonna play Mr Fair Nice Guy and not put up a fight, and now the Republicans are in full power....thanks to Brutha-bama.

If you love Obama, you should love Trump....because Obama MADE Trump President.

infact, when the election was just getting over and it looked like Trump was going to win Obama URGED Hillary Clinton to just go ahead and concede even when some other members of her campaign urged her to stay in and fight a little while longer.

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He refused to do it because, like everybody else, he thought Clinton was going to win. He was a lame duck president, so what did he have to lose by outing Russia, if he thought it was feasible.( And when did you get privy to all of this inside information about what went on behind the scenes during the election????) Been listening to Fox news?

Yes Obama did help Trump enable all of those bigots and homophobes and hypocritical Evangelicals and white supremists and misogynists "forgotten people" yearning to get that nigger out of office and make America great again. Which is right up your alley since you've proven to be a closet Obama hater who loves this wonderful country. .

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It wouls be more destabilising to admit that our election was hacked. An investigation also wasn't likely tobbe finished before the election. Also its a transitional government. So what as done was document abmormality. To leave a paper trail.

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He refused to do it because, like everybody else, he thought Clinton was going to win. He was a lame duck president, so what did he have to lose by outing Russia, if he thought it was feasible.

He could have GUARANTEED Clinton's victory instead of assuming it...like Gore did in 2000.

Democrats refuse to fight half the time, and don't even know HOW to fight when they choose to.

He had absolutely NOTHING to lose by launching a major investigation in the last few months of the election to find out if the Republicans were colluding with Russia and perhaps making arrests of those suspected.

This would have assured Clinton's victory.....but he just couldn't do that.
He seemed to always have an excuse for losing or NOT giving his grassroot supporters what they want.

Yes Obama did help Trump enable all of those bigots and homophobes and hypocritical Evangelicals and white supremists and misogynists "forgotten people" yearning to get that nigger out of office and make America great again. Which is right up your alley since you've proven to be a closet Obama hater who loves this wonderful country. .

I don't hate Obama.
I voted for him the FIRST time he ran.

I'm more disappointed in him than anything.

I see him more as weak, too "cerebral" and out of touch with what most people are going through.

People love a fighter, especially someone who's fighting for THEM.

I'm sure that most of the few Black people who DO support Trump are doing so because they believe he'll actualy DO something for them, as opposed to Obama who had a million and one excuses for why he couldn't.

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Obama listened to his advisers. Like Eisenhower, he ruled by committee, always erring on the side of caution. He always responded to his harshest critic, Cornel West, by asking him to submit an agenda and be specific about what he wanted the presidency to do. Has anybody ever said what he should've done to turn things around for black people. What could've been done to create more jobs and make law enforcement more accountable. And it can't be so lightly dismissed that he was hog-tied by a Republican senate. His biggest mistake was touting hopes that had little chance of being fulfilled and he ended up looking like a wimp.

The plight of black people will never be a priority in this country no matter who is president. Like Troy always says, it's becoming more about class than race and the black underclass keeps itself down by having too wayward fatherless kids who better schools wouldn't effect or turn around and who don't really have a good work ethic.

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Pioneer Trump's behavior appears to be motivated by ignorance of the issues, self-aggrandisement, lack of civility, greed, and narcissism. I'll take Obama over that any day of the week--shoot I'll take Bush (1 or 2).

I understand that some people confuse Trump's characteristics as desirable in a world leader at this time, but this reflects a profound dysfunction in our culture and the way our government operates, not anything positive about Trump.

Cynique, I'm not so sure Obama dismissed West because of a lack of agenda. Keep in mind West campaigned with Obama hard--something like 85 trips. I saw one of these campaign stops in Harlem, when the local democrats were still supporting Hillary Clinton. He knew what West was interested in achieving.

I also know West had an agenda, both he and Tavis Smiley (think of him what you will), even published some books in the subject the most popular was The Covenant with Black America,

Obama jettisoned West early. West became harshly critical once it became obvious that Obama was not going to do any specifically to address the needs of Black people. West was I 'm sure felt betrayed because Obama presented himself differently during the campaign. Perhaps West, indeed many in the Black community were reading into Obama, because of his brown skin characteristics, he simply did not have

Obama then when on to align himself with sycophants (like Sharpton) and Ivy League educated elites who were already with the program...his "advisers."

So while "Obama creating Trump," as Pioneer suggests, is a stretch in my view; Black America's complete disillusionment with the democratic party made itself abundantly evident at the polls. Some of this blame ,I'm sorry to say, belongs to the Obama presidency.

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@Troy Everything you write about Obama is true. What did i say that was contrary to it? I assume that you are saying that i didn't go far enough in my observations. Likewise, you didn't go far enough in offering specific solutions or strategies whose logistics wouldn't have been an insurmountable problem for Obama. implementing a black agenda was wishful thinking. Hope that was, indeed, audacious.

Obama's critics expected him to be a miracle worker. They were just as naive as anyone else in thinking he was a Messiah. Maybe they would've felt better if he had given more lip service to black problems.

i disagree with your assertion that black people's complete disillusionment with the Democratic party made itself clear at the polls. Their support for both Obama and Hillary remained solid; never under 85 per cent. The black masses seemed to understand that Republicans were dedicated to thwarting Obama and Republicans should also be blamed for the failures they were successful in causing.

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Cynique I was keying off your statement, "He always responded to his harshest critic, Cornel West, by asking him to submit an agenda and be specific about what he wanted the presidency to do." West was always crystal clear on the agenda.

Obama was the leader of the democratic party. The democratic party has gotten it clock cleaned by the Republicans. If you don't want to give Obama any credit for the failures of the party that is cool, we'll just have to agree to disagree....

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Has anybody ever said what he should've done to turn things around for black people. What could've been done to create more jobs and make law enforcement more accountable. And it can't be so lightly dismissed that he was hog-tied by a Republican senate.

Ever heard of "executive orders"?

Trump has issued dozens of them since the 6 months he's been in office.
More than Obama's entire 2 terms.

Obama has a Black Attorney General in office for both terms, they are the HEAD of all the law enforcement in the United States.
Any orders he gave them they would have been duty bound to carry out all the way down to the lowest police officer.

But what did he choose to do instead?
Have beer with the cop who assaulted Henry L. Gates, one of our foremost Black scholars today.

As far as creating jobs, he could have used an executive order to initiate those too.....like Franklin D. Roosevelt did to aleviate the Great Depression.
Ofcourse congress would have had to fund it, but he could have still initiated it.
But again, he refused to do so and instead came up with some "cash for clunkers" garbage.

You can get things done when you WANT to get things done.
But if you're just going through the motions and bullshitting people, then you'll come up with every convenient excuse in the world to cover for your inaction.

Troy

I'll take Obama over that any day of the week--shoot I'll take Bush (1 or 2).

Yes and no.
Yes I'll take Obama over Trump simply because I don't think Obama would be quite AS caustic to Black America as Trump is.

But if I thought he'd actually DO something positive for me and other Black people, I'd sure enough support him!

I'm not a Republican or a Democrat....I'm for whoever will support me and my cause.

If you asked me who I think would be the most effective leader and who would accomplish the most for his base and those who got him in office....I'd go with Trump all the way.

Ofcourse he lies like most politicians, but with this travel ban and his urging to eliminate Obama Care...he's done more for his base already than Obama has done for HIS in the past 8 years.

Look at all the Black men who have been shot by cops under Obama.
And look at all the White officers that shot them who have been exonerated under Trump.

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@TroyWell, just because the Republicans cleaned the Democrat's clock, doesn't mean that black people deserted the Democratic party in large numbers, which was your original claim. it just means that the Republicans successfully tapped into the resentment and discontentment of a key segment of the white population. Their victory was a fluke because everybody including Republicans, themselves, underestimated the insidious bigotry permeating white America. And, I'm surprised you don't point the finger of blame at Hillary Clinton for the loss of the presidency. Obama wasn't running her campaign and knowing her, i doubt if she was seeking his counsel. And of course, you are conveniently overlooking the Democrats winning the popular vote by a million ballots.

You constantly put me in the position of defending Obama but that's because your offense is more about petulance that relevance. What points would you dispute when historians agree that Obama will go down as one of the better presidents of this country. I am curious about this and in my quest for truth i, myself, would be interested in hearing why they say this.

@Pioneer1 FDR was president of a nation caught in the throes of a great Depression and he had bi-partisan support in mobilizing the country to get back on its feet. He also realized that a war would be a boom to the economy, and the 1941 Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was anticipated. A war did boost the economy - at the cost of millions of American lives. Your statements about Trump keeping his promises is misleading. The travel ban is very modified, and still in court, Obama care is in shambles, the Mexican wall reduced to being a joke. Trump being regarded by half of the country as being a lying, childish, petty. ill-informed, egomaniac and global laughing stock addicted to Twitter, not to being mention being investigated for collusion with Russia is not a record anybody needs to be touting. He will eventually gain momentum, however, because this stupid country is full of Bigotry and Bull shit. And people like you blindly admire this unscrupulous snake-oil salesman.

Time and time again, you and Troy keep making it sound like Obama could've just waved a magic wand and made all black problems vanish. As if he didn't have to contend with a Republican congress dedicated to blocking his every move. Yes, he could've spoken out more and given moral support, but that still wouldn't have amounted to nothing more than humoring blacks. Plus, black leaders, themselves, would get leery any time there was hint of government intervention in the inner cities because they feared this would make matters worse, stiffening resistance and emboldening the "shoot-first-and-ask-question-later" mentality of ill-trained, trigger- happy cops who were backed by their strong unions, their code of silence and the powers-that-be-whose priority is to maintain "law and order". How many of these white cops who executed unarmed people "driving-while-black," have been absolved of guilt? Most of them. The message being sent is that law enforcement has the upper-hand in this or any society. Whose fault is that? Providing jobs? OK. Providing jobs that pay a living wage, not so much. Whose fault is that?

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Cynique, I made a very simple statement regarding Obama's leadership of the democratic party. He was the president for 8 years--not Hillary, but you put the blame on Hillary, without seeing how inconsistent and unfair that is...

If Black people fail to vote for Democratic candidates in all of the midterms of the last 8 years and the last presidential election what is difference does it make whether they leave the party or not? They did not vote for the last Democratic presidential candidate, that says it all.

Now if I point out the fact that the majority of Black democrats did not bother to vote for the Democratic presidential candidate, you call that "petulance." You can't substantiate that statement based upon what I wrote.

Also, please don't conflate what I write with Pioneer's statements. If you try to understand what we are both writing you will see that the perspective are actually quite different in some regards.

Before Obama ran for democratic nomination, I was a registered independent, but I changed to Democrat party (unlike Pioneer) to vote for Obama over Hillary in the primary. I also voted for Obama in both presidential elections. I voted for Bernie in the primary and Hillary in the general. I even contributed to his campaign and attended a rally. I have never done this for a candidate (for any office). I recall give YOU grief for not be supportive of Obama when he first announced his candidacy (I did not forget that). I SUPPORT Obama, arguably more than you. Misconstruing my words is not going to change that fact

Surely I can critique the man and still support him.

Presidents are not elected by popular vote, it is a waste of time to even bring that up and it does not change the fact Blacks turned out in far less numbers. this presidential election. Actually, gerrymandering is a more significant problem, but here too, the democrats, under Obama's leadership, have failed to do anything about it. The impact of this abject failure to combat the impact of gerrymandered districts will be felt for generations.

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Come on, Troy. Now all of a sudden you are defending Hillary's honor. How can you blame Obama for her defeat?? Even she takes the blame for most of it including keeping a private e-mail server and buying into the polls that said she was going to win, ensuring that Obama didn't need to intervene and muddy the picture with accusations about Russian hacking. And this assessment is shared by many pundits, Especially those who were just waiting for her to fall flat on her face.

Furthermore, Obama didn't have anything to do with the white female head of the Democratic National committee offending and driving Bernie Sanders supporters away and creating a split in the party. causing many young people to stay home or vote for 3rd party candidates. And didn't you yourself just dispute Pioneer for crediting Obama with Trump's election, saying: " Russia's impact on our election is not Obama's fault; Russia is to blame. Now we can argue about what an appropriate response should have been, but we both know virtually anything Obama would have done would have been twisted by the other party and the Trump campaign, or thwarted by the Republican House and Senate".

And why do you keep dismissing the popular vote like it means nothing when it means quite a bit which is why there's a movement to abolish the electoral college? Everybody agrees that voter reform is in order but how can Obama be blamed for that being necessary?? And the reason why Republicans have been winning local elections is because they are taking place in red states where blacks are concentrated in the urban centers that are neutralized by the rural and suburban white areas.

And i didn't call you petulant based on your pointing out your "unsubstantiated" fact that the majority of Black people did not bother to vote for the Democratic presidential candidate. So don't put words in my mouth. i called you petulant because in your critiques i could not recall your expressing anything positive about Obama's terms in office, your disappointment implicit with the idea that you felt his unsatisfactory performance proved your reservations about him to be justified.

And what words of yours did i twist? You and Pioneer keep saying i love Obama in spite of how i repeatedly tell you that i am not, and never have been, an avid fan of his. So who's hearing what they want to hear? The future of the Supreme Court was always my prime concern. And, frankly, at this point i am neither concerned about Obama's future in the Democratic party, nor his presidential legacy.

I'd be the first to agree that Democrats need to get their act together by any means necessary and it is important to learn from previous mistakes. They need to work on converting white people voting against their own interest and on corralling the disgruntled black people that Trump is driving into the Democratic ranks. But, if we are to believe your assessment, all is lost because Obama didn't do his duty. So be it.

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Cynique I'm simply not an all or nothing kind of guy. I can loath Hillary on something and have sympathy on another. I can be critical of Obama on many issues but still be his supporter. When you cast me as someone who is "...all of a sudden you are defending Hillary's honor" you make it appear as if I can't hold more than two thoughts in my head at one time. I love you and your way with words, but I can still disagree with you on many things, right?

Cynique, a lack of disputing something does not imply agreement. If could be I just did not know enough or care enough about the issue Pioneer raised to voice an opinion.

The popular votes does not mean anything when it comes to how the president is elected. i don't agree with it, but that is the was it is. Just because more people voted to Hillary and Gore does not mean they win the election--that s not how the rules work.

Just because you don't recall me saying anything positive about Obama does not mean I have not done it. Don't you recall my, admitted over the top, endorsement of Obama even before he announced his candidacy? Don't you recall your support of Hillary, and my calling you (unfairly) a self-hating negro, for failing to endorse "the Brother?" In hindsight, time has appeared to proven you right.

I say you are twisting my words, because you keep putting me in the same box with Pioneer on this issue, you have a position on Obama and you allow for no nuance or subtlety. There is no gray area with you on this issue. Anyone who expresses a critique of Obama that you disagree with is in the same one dimensional box--you are unable to see any difference between Pioneer an myself--we aren't even in the same political party!

Obviously we agree on the Democrats needing to get their act together, however we strongly disagree on Obama's role in this. I feel he is part of the problem, you obviously don't. Again, I'm don't understand your reasoning why you think a two-term president bares no blame at all. But again, we'll agree to disagree.

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Well, forgive me, Troy, if i expected consistency from you, When a person has 2 opinions about one subject, this is often referred to as "vacillation", something i mistook your "flexibility" for. i will also confess to being unable to read your mind in regard to your unexpressed positive opinions about Obama's presidency.

But i'm truly surprised at your strawman argument about you and Pioneer! The only thing i connected you with him about was when i said that both of you persist in saying that i "love Obama". i quoted verbatim what you said to him about Obama being the blame for Trump's victory! So you did voice an opinion on the subject and i didn't twist your words. In what other instance did i put you in the same category as Pioneer whose position i'm not even sure about.

Again, i say I AM NOT A STAUNCH OBAMA SUPPORTER, and do not aggressively or passionately defend him. i just react to his critics. Believe it or not i didn't even vote in his second term because i didn't feel like going to my old voting location something i would've had to do because i was not registered under my current address. i figured he didn't need my vote to win so i stayed home. The only position i have on the subject of Obama stems from the statements you make that inspire me to do what i always do when people opine; challenge them.

And i am also surprised that you would simply accept the status quo about the electoral college, disinterested in steps being taken to change a system that does not reflect the will of the majority, while at the same time insisting that reform is necessary in the voting process. These 2 things go hand-in-hand.

i guess i'm wrong when i think that a black president elected twice is not to blame for the outcome of a white woman candidate who subsequently runs for the office and loses because her campaign strategy failed, in part, due to a white backlash to this black president as demonstrated by how he harmed more than helped Hillary when he campaigned for her in red states.

President Harry Truman is remembered for having a sign that set on his desk, saying "the buck stops here". So Obama has to shoulder the blame. It's said of the Presidency that either the man makes the office, or the office makes the man. Apparently, in Obama's case, the office made him an ineffective wimp who let the Democratic party down. And so it goes.

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(1) If I change my mind about something after additional consideration that is not vacillation that is evolution, growth.

This is also a problem with the political process where nobody is allowed to change their position without being called a flipflopper or a vacillator, which is code for "weak." So my stance on Obama has hardened over time and my position on hillary has softened (a bit), but over all they have both been largely ineffective relative to the strength and effectiveness of the Democratic party. This is not subjective this is a fact as evidenced by the results of elections.

(2) Pioneer wrote, "If you love Obama, you should love Trump....because Obama MADE Trump," I completely disagree with this statement and any conclusions that flow from it. I would have to invoke my "Power to Defy Logic," to cosign on that one

Still, I fail to see any connection on what I wrote that allows you to join me at the hip with Pionner's opinions on this topic. Iif Pioneers says Obama was responsible for Trump and I agree that he was a factor, you can't then assume I cosign with all of Pioneers other opinions solely because you disagree with him in this issue.

So while I would agree that Obama deserves some blame, there were of course other more important factors that contributed to Trump's victory like the scared (often racist) white masses.

I'm not surprised that you did not vote for Obama the second time. In fact, as I reviewed my statements I forgot that I was in FL when I voted in the 2012 election and I voted for Jill Stein. Which had zero impact other that to voice dissatisfaction with the party we needed fundamental change, which I saw, but it was all going in the wrong direction...

So what do you want me to do regarding the President is elected? What are you doing? Changing this would require a constitutional amendment with 2/3's of both the house and the senate voting in favor of it. With the GOP owning both houses the likelihood of this happening is virtually nil.

The current rules can, and have, worked for us, but if people are so disaffected by, and disappointed in, our democratic politicians and candidates we don't have a chance...

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WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING THAT I AM JOINING YOU AT THE HIP WITH PIONEER????? i directly quoted how you categorically disagreed with him about Obama being responsible for Trump's election! And i haven't linked you with him on any issue except for how you both admire Farrakhan, - and you do.

Everybody, including me, has mixed emotions about things, so i am not trying to make a big deal out of you having them. i was just a little surprised by the softening of your attitude toward Hillary since you said you had to hold your nose when voting for her.

I don't expect you to do anything except to support any movement that gets underway to change the flawed electoral college, and - to stop down playing how Hillary won a million+ more votes more than Trump.

i don't intend to anything about about anything except, in the few years i have left, watch America get made-over in Trump's image without it even knowing that this is happening.

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Oh, OK sorry about the statements regarding you lumping me in with Pioneer. OK I'm clear you see a difference between my position and Pioneer's I won't mention it again...

Regarding my softening on Hillary. I think that started when I saw reaction to loosing to Trump. That must have been hard; my heart went out to her. Honestly I kinda forgotten that she is a human being, who fought hard to become president. Again, in hindsight, she was more qualified than Obama and we don't even need to compare her to 45. She probably could have done more specifically for Black people too, because she, unlike OBama, did not have to worry about showing favoritism to Black folks.

Again Trump won more electors and that is what Hillary and the Democrats failed to do. Everything else is largely irrelevant.

I truly hope you see Trump get kicked out office or whipped in 2020. Hey I'm a Black man in America--I hope I get to see it myself

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Pioneer wrote, "If you love Obama, you should love Trump....because Obama MADE Trump," I completely disagree with this statement and any conclusions that flow from it. I would have to invoke my "Power to Defy Logic," to cosign on that one

You find it illogical that Obama is the reason Trump is in office today?

Then let me ask you two questions:

1. If President Obama had ACTED on prosecuting or atleast investigating in a public manner EVERYONE he and his Justice Department suspected of colluding with the Russian government at that time.....do you think Trump would be president?

Trump was accusing Obama of spying on him WITHOUT any evidence, and here Obama HAD evidence and just let things go!

2. Because she won the popular vote by such a large margine, Hillary Clinton as well as most of those in her campaign wanted the challenge the results of the election but Obama was the FIRST to call her up and told her not to and to go ahead and concede.

And you don't think that made a difference.
You think if Obama hadn't called and encouraged her to concede as opposed to demanding that she actually FIGHT for the spot.....Trump would have just as easily gotten into the Whitehouse as he did?

Cynique

https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/9056-troy/Well, just because the Republicans cleaned the Democrat's clock, doesn't mean that black people deserted the Democratic party in large numbers, which was your original claim. it just means that the Republicans successfully tapped into the resentment and discontentment of a key segment of the white population. Their victory was a fluke because everybody including Republicans, themselves, underestimated the insidious bigotry permeating white America.

The Republicans didn't clean the Democrats' clock.
The Democrats just gave up without a fight....as usual....and let the Republicans have the Whitehouse.

Remember 3 million MORE Americans voted for Hillary than Trump, so the majority of the American people are actually for the Democrats and their agenda and I believe that includes most White people.

FDR was president of a nation caught in the throes of a great Depression and he had bi-partisan support in mobilizing the country to get back on its feet. He also realized that a war would be a boom to the economy, and the 1941 Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was anticipated. A war did boost the economy - at the cost of millions of American lives.

The economy was boosted BEFORE the war.
As soon as Roosevelt took office he used the powers of his executive office to immediately create jobs for the millions of unemployed as well as implimented major welfare programs to address the immediate problems of homelessness and hunger.
This was done in the early 30s. The United States didn't really get involved in WWII until a decade later in the 40s.
The war certainly HELPED the economy and sent it into overdrive, but the economy was improving long before then based on the executive action of the President.
Something Obama....and Clinton...and other presidents before them could have done but didn't.

The message being sent is that law enforcement has the upper-hand in this or any society. Whose fault is that?

Well.....
During the Obama Administration...OBAMA was at fault.
He had Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch, two AfroAmerican Attorney Generals who could have used their positions to change police policies all over the nation, yet he failed to do so.

Not picking on Obama, because the presidents before him could have done the same.
Just showing you what Obama COULD have done if he indeed wanted to and took the problem seriously enough.

Providing jobs? OK. Providing jobs that pay a living wage, not so much. Whose fault is that?

Again, if it's during Obama's Administration it's HIS fault because he could have used executive orders to engineer a jobs program the paid living wages like Roosevelt did.

Now all of a sudden you are defending Hillary's honor. How can you blame Obama for her defeat??

I can blame him for her defeat!

In part atleast.................

Does anyone find it suspicious that President Obama is the one who first told Hillary not to challenge the election but just go ahead and concede?

There were those in her camp that wanted her to challenge the results and take it all the way to the Supreme Court like Bush v Gore, but Obama....the same one you claim EXPECTED her to win.....for some reason TOLD her to go ahead and concede the same damn night.

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@Pioneer1You're always declaring that if Obama had just done this or had just done that, everything would've worked out just fine and by the time he left office everybody would've had a good job and cops would've become Officer Friendlys and public schools would've been turning out college-ready scholars. Talk is cheap. and you are the consummate Monday morning Quarterback.

Where are you getting your information about what the President told Hillary Clinton??? Did she take Obama's advice instead of her husband's? Did she really buckle under pressure from him. i have my doubts.

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Pioneer I can;t know the answer to your questions, but if I followed your logic it would be reasonable to conclude that Obama actually wanted Hillary to lose and for Trump to be president. I find this hard to believe. Do you believe this @Pioneer1? If not who else would you explain Obama's behavior?

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Where are you getting your information about what the President told Hillary Clinton??? Did she take Obama's advice instead of her husband's? Did she really buckle under pressure from him. i have my doubts.

Pioneer I can;t know the answer to your questions, but if I followed your logic it would be reasonable to conclude that Obama actually wanted Hillary to lose and for Trump to be president. I find this hard to believe. Do you believe this @Pioneer1? If not who else would you explain Obama's behavior?

Like John Gotti would say,

"I dunno.....you tell me.

Whudduz it look like to you?"

Whether it's likely or not, do you think it's IMPOSSIBLE that Obama maybe would have wanted Hillary to lose?

I can't figure out what was going on in the head of Obama or Clinton.
What I DO know is Hillary had a very real chance to be president that night and it's hard to believe someone who put in all of those years of wheeling and dealing and becoming senator and secretary and campaigning and hard work and came THIS CLOSE to being president and ready to fight and challenge the election results......only for the head of the party to repeatedly urge her to go ahead and concede and give up.

How could Obama, sitting on all of that information about Trump and the Russians STILL urge Clinton to just give up and accept defeat?

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@Pioneer1Have you vetted the obscure sources of these reports that sound like fake news. I never heard anything like this on the regular newscast after the election. Do these articles say why he advised her to concede and is it clear whether she was seeking his approval about a decision she herself decided to make as opposed to following his orders..

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Pioneer anything is possible, but for me to believe Obama wanted Hillary to lose and Trump is inconceivable. Again I need a good reason to explain the motivation for Obama to want this outcome.

I can't get into a brain as complicated as Obama's and try to figure out what would motivate his behavior.

Nor am I blaming him totally for Clinton's loss.

But I AM holding him PARTIALLY responsible for it because:

a) He had a legal and legitimate opportunity to stop Trump before the election and refused to do so and

b ) Instead of encouraging his Secretary of State and party's nominee to fight tooth and nail until the very end for one of the world's most important positions, he is one of the first to urge her to immediately surrender and admit defeat.

Not sure what President Obama's motives were but those are facts, make of them what you will.

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@Pioneer1Well, maybe Hillary and Bill, in all of their white entitlement and privilege, humbly decided that it was best to listen to the counsel of a meek black president when it came to the most important decision of her life.

i still don't give any weight to articles that appear in obscure right wing publications. Why wasn't this information about Obama ever released on Fox News, who never passes up a chance to besmirch both Obama and Hillary. And , surely, CNN wouldn't keep quiet about this charge if it was actually accurate.