Will Sims II promised to find sandwiches for his No Collar tribe as early as day one. And he fulfilled that promise in the form of a proverbial knuckle sandwich, as he voted each and every one of them out of Survivor: Worlds Apart.

That aspect of Will’s game goes largely ignored when we talk about the man best known for his killer Bon Jovi impression. He entered Survivor knowing almost nothing about the show, by his own admission, and yet he adopted a version of the “anybody but me” attitude that once allowed Sandra Diaz-Twine to become the only two-time winner in Survivor history.

However, as another Worlds Apart contestant might say, you can’t blame people for not patting Will on the back. He entered Final Tribal Council against two of the season’s toughest competitors, Mike Holloway and Carolyn Rivera, and walked away with nothing more than a single vote for the Sole Survivor title, as well as a new nickname: Dead Fish. By his own admission, Will lacked the resumé to win the game, what with his challenge performance, his inability to showcase big moves – even if he was the final No Collar standing – and his role in the demise of each of his original tribe mates.

The game aside, Will’s biggest moment of the season was also one of the season’s ugliest, as he reamed fellow contestant Shirin Oskooi in front of his entire tribe and millions of viewers at home, telling her she has “no soul,” and holding to the point, even in the middle of her revealing a personal history with domestic violence. It became one of the biggest talking points of the season, and stands out as one of the toughest moments to endure in Worlds Apart.

When I spoke with Will at the Worlds Apart finale, we talked about what happened with Shirin from his perspective, and where he stands on things today. He discussed how he became the final No Collar, why he couldn’t get a handle on those challenges, and if he ever thought he had a shot at winning the game.

Will, you’re the last No Collar standing.

Pretty intense!

Did you have an idea early on, when you looked at who was with you on the mat, that it could be you?

Oh, no! No, no, no! No way. I mean, we got Joey Amazing. We got Vince. We got Nina. These are students of the game. And then there’s me. I’m not as astute as they are. I had to learn on the fly. It’s very tough! Very tough. If No Collar lost one more challenge, then you and I are not having this conversation right now.

Very true. What did you know about Survivor coming into this?

I knew very littleabout Survivor going into this, and to me, that was a good thing because if I was making a mistake, I didn’t know it. I wasn’t just overanalyzing every little thing. I said, “Whatever happens, happens. Just do your best.” And here I am. I got into the Final Three.

For not knowing the show very well, there’s one thing I think you figured out quickly: Sandra’s attitude of “anybody but me.”

I knew my social game was the only thing I had going into this. I could judge people real quick. I knew that whatever I needed to do, as long as it’s not me, I’m gonna do it.

That attitude required you to break a bunch of alliances along the way.

Oh yeah. You have to. You have to. It’s called Sole Survivor, not Group Sole Survivor.

And that led directly to you flipping on the No Collars. You get to the merge and you pivot away from your original tribe. Why?

When we hit the merge, they stopped talking to me. We stopped talking to each other. I didn’t know if that was their strategy, not wanting other people to know if we were close or not. But I talked to Rodney and Kelly and they were like, “Hey, why don’t you come over here? We trust you. We have a strong seven.” So that’s what I did.

So, you’re jacked now.

Oh, thanks!

Wouldn’t it have been nice if you were jacked on the show?

Oh, man. I was going up against Joe and Joaquin and they’re like GQ models, and I’m National Geographic. [Laughs] It did not work. I was in between sizes. I like where I’m at right now.

You and those challenges did not get along.

I just couldn’t comprehend them because I didn’t know the show that well. It’s hard to learn on the fly when you’re doing those types of difficult challenges. They were harder in Season 30. When you go for a million dollars, they’re going to make it hard.

When you got to the final three, did you think you had a shot at winning?

No. I didn’t have the resumé that Mike and Mama C had. Mike had five immunities and Mama C had two. Then there’s me with nothing. I knew socially I was good, but in the jury’s eyes, they didn’t see that I made big enough moves. Maybe they did, because Carolyn only got one vote, and I got a vote. I was surprised about that.But I knew. When Mike kept winning, I knew he was going to win. And you couldn’t even justify [my case]. And with Mama C, the same thing. She was tough. She was a strategic player. She won immunities, and people saw that.

Talk me through your side of what happened with Shirin. What was your relationship with her like, and how did it fall apart?

We didn’t have a relationship. She didn’t like me from the beginning. I don’t want to get into a he-said-she-said. What I said was wrong. I own up to it. No matter what she said about me, no matter what was done to me, I took it too far. I went all in like Vegas. I put all my chips in. I didn’t know about her past. It made me look worse, like I knew, but I had no idea.

Watching the show, it showed us arguing, but Mike was there, too. Mike was there, and I was arguing with him, but you guys didn’t see that. They underline how I’m yelling, and then she says that she’s a victim of domestic violence, and I’m like, “Whoa! Where did that come from!” I get that they had to show that, and I apologized for it.

You apologized to Shirin during the finale, she didn’t necessarily accept it, and then she’s whisked away to compete on Survivor: Second Chance. Do you feel there’s isn’t a sense of closure there?

For me, there is. Whether or not for her? I can only do my part. I apologized to her. She can either accept it or not. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t ask for an apology, and then I do it, and then you blew it off.

What’s your take on Dan?

Dan just wanted the truth to be told. He wanted to get his voice out there. It might have not worked. It might have hurt him a little bit. As long as he’s okay with it, I just gotta stand by him. You get your truth out, and whatever people say, they say.

It’s a tough situation, because… it’s hard because people can only judge you on what they see. And that’s not always what’s happening in the situation. You take me, for example. You didn’t see Mike in the picture, me yelling at Mike as well. Because what’s more interesting? Me yelling at Shirin, or me yelling at Mike?

But the point is, you still got into an argument with this girl, and you said some really mean things. I own up to it. I think that’s what Dan was trying to do, but he was also making the point of trying to be right instead of just owning up to it. He did apologize, but he kept snowballing and snowballing.

One of his complaints has been the edit and how he was portrayed. Do you have problems with your edit?

No problems with it. What you gave them is what they showed. If you look at it from episode one until ten, I was fine. I never had another blowup. You never saw another female contestant say anything bad about me, you never saw me talk to anyone that way, except for Shirin. Everybody had a problem with her. It’s a give and take. It’s tricky.

Josh Wigler is a writer, editor and podcaster who has been published by MTV News, New York Magazine, Comic Book Resources, Digital Trends and more. He is the co-author ofThe Evolution of Strategy: 30 Seasons of Survivor, an audiobook chronicling the reality TV show’s transformation. Josh hosts podcasts about film and television on PostShowRecaps.com.