Agreed. I was pissed when the dwarves short amount of in game lore pretty much summed up to "Magni is a stone, now the counsel of the three hammers is here." .... I just hope they do something at all with them.

This reminds me of something a guildie said. "No matter how much you complain about lack of lore, no matter how unfair or unjust you may think Blizz is being, I can invalidate anything you say with two words. Gnome lore."

This reminds me of something a guildie said. "No matter how much you complain about lack of lore, no matter how unfair or unjust you may think Blizz is being, I can invalidate anything you say with two words. Gnome lore."

To be fair, Draenei and Worgen lore are both as equally badly treated. But at least they've got potential to be awesome in future, something I don't see the Gnomes ever achieving (since they will always be viewed as a joke, and not the highly skilled engineers that they should be portrayed as. Goblins get both, and work out much better overall).

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Originally Posted by Lokann

However, remember that Garithos had support from dwarves with siege tanks. That probably rules out the Wildhammer, so there's a chance they were Ironforge soldiers.

They may have been mercenaries, but probably not. Likely they were Ironforge soldiers, but were cut off from the rest of the Dwarven army and banded together with the Humans and few remaining Elves in Garithos' army for protection. I imagine if given half a chance those Dwarves would have marched south as quickly as possible back over the span and to relative safety.

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Originally Posted by The Mister Madgod

No but I feel that shift of power was so dramatic and those events were so catastrophic that denoting that it isn't really the same thing is valid. The Alliance of Lordaeron broke the moment Sylvanas seized control of Lordaeron City. The Alliance in general survived, but that part of its identity was gone.

It was all but destroyed by the death of King Terenas. Sylvannas seizing the capital was just the nail in the coffin.

To be fair, Draenei and Worgen lore are both as equally badly treated.

Eh, the main difference I see is that while both the other races truly got new lore, stuff happening to them, moments when they were really allowed to shine... gnomes got none. They've just sort of been kicking the can around until the pre-Cata events when they... well, didn't even finish their job of retaking their own city.

I've got some hopes for the gnome vs. goblin rivalry, now that Mekkatorque's been seizing Blackfuse's stuff, but eh... while I'm remaining hopeful, I wouldn't bet on the storyline going anywhere really.

What pissed me off in WoW storyline? No mention about dwarfs! Seriously, after Mangi petrifited there is little lore about dwarfs... If we consider Blood In The Snow scenario, sure but not what i excepted...

Honestly? Where is also a lore about Draenei? That Velen come to Swamp Of Sorrows mean nothing.

What pissed me off in WoW storyline? No mention about dwarfs! Seriously, after Mangi petrifited there is little lore about dwarfs... If we consider Blood In The Snow scenario, sure but not what i excepted...

Honestly? Where is also a lore about Draenei? That Velen come to Swamp Of Sorrows mean nothing.

The problem with Velen is he doesn't really care for such trivial conflicts, even though he vows to support the Alliance, his main goal is the Army of light and everything else is secondary, if Velen hadn't returned from his seclusion, the Draenei would have left Azeroth.

He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

Well someone showed a Twitter Screenshot ina thread from Metzen when someone asked "Will there be peace now between horde and alliance" and he replied. "Well the game isnt called peacecraft"

It will be cold war again, for a few years most likely,if they continue the faction wars, it would be nice if the Alliance becomes the aggressor, burns down a couple of horde towns or nations and gets beaten into submission for a change, otherwise it would be rather dull.

He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

Varian states that their goal now, instead of crushing the horde and losing thousands of alliance soldiers invading Thunder Bluff, is to prevent another Garrosh from rising. He than indicates that they want to clean Gilnaes of the plague and contain Sylvannas. This is implying he believe Sylvannas will be the "next Garrosh" and doesn't want her gaining to much power.

There's a massive difference between crushing the entire Horde and telling them, "You're beaten and broken. As a sign of your honor, you're to pull out of the lands you took by force or else we will end you."

To retake lands stolen as an act of war under Garrosh isn't asking too much of the new leader. It's a sign of faith that they actually want peace too. Instead, he packed up ship, sailed home with the worded threat that if you don't behave, daddy Varian will come back and spank you. He then claimed that the Alliance would retake Gilneas and cure the curse.

Instead of making the demands a true leader would have while the enemy was weak, he went home to let them strengthen themselves back to a proper fighting force. Then, if they misbehave, it will cost millions more lives then it would have had he made the demands today and followed up immediately if action wasn't taken.

Sure, it's a game and you can't just trade lands willy nilly because of leveling purposes, but once you hit 90, there's no reason phasing can't kick in to show those lands reclaimed by the Alliance. Blizzard doesn't want to put in that story telling patch though, although 4.3 was fine to show the Horde uprising in action. We can't get a 5.5 to show the aftermath and reclamation of lands by the Alliance in those areas taken by Garrosh's Horde.

It will be cold war again, for a few years most likely,if they continue the faction wars, it would be nice if the Alliance becomes the aggressor, burns down a couple of horde towns or nations and gets beaten into submission for a change, otherwise it would be rather dull.

Problem with that is yourll have horde saying "Blizzard favor the alliance." seems no matter what they do the playerbase will always say "Blizzard favors <faction> more in this expansion."

Problem with that is yourll have horde saying "Blizzard favor the alliance." seems no matter what they do the playerbase will always say "Blizzard favors <faction> more in this expansion."

That will happen regardless, whatever they do, people will always whine, so let the Alliance kick in some horde teeth, scoring major victories against the forsaken and orcs for example, or something like the Kirin Tor trying to take over Quel'thalas.

He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

The problem with Velen is he doesn't really care for such trivial conflicts, even though he vows to support the Alliance, his main goal is the Army of light and everything else is secondary, if Velen hadn't returned from his seclusion, the Draenei would have left Azeroth.

That possible scenario, why? Velen mentioned in few ocasions about army of the light... But if he will don't care about Alliance, he will refuse to heal Anduin and shows him his visions... I guess in all this years, when Draenei landed in Azeroth, find a good ally for his crusade against Legion...

Otherwise also... Most races in alliance, believe to holy light religion. But night elves believe to Elune, but this is same as holy light for night elves?

The main interesing question, is what future brings with Gilneas or Gnomeregan. Or maybe with Dark Iron Dwarves.

What pissed me off in WoW storyline? No mention about dwarfs! Seriously, after Mangi petrifited there is little lore about dwarfs... If we consider Blood In The Snow scenario, sure but not what i excepted...

I personally want to see the Ironforge Dwarves and Muradin take the spotlight for the Dwarves atm. The Dark Irons have been thoroughly introduced to the Alliance and shown as willing soldiers and members. The focus now needs to return to the playable Dwarves. Give Muradin a larger military role, heck have him as second in command of the Alliance military or something like that.

Dwarves are my favorite race but I wouldn't say their story is exactly dire. They have received a constant trickle of lore for quite a while now. Wrath had a lot to do with the Titans and also touches upon Muradin's friendship with Arthas. Cata featured the return of Moira and introduction of the Dark Irons along with the Wildhammers playing a more centralized role in Dwarven politics as well as the Wildhammer story in the Twilight Highlands. In MoP we have a scenario demonstrating the role of the Dark Irons in the Alliance.

I'd like them to be shown as far more central to the Alliance than they currently are, kinda like how the Trolls have been shown in the Horde. But at the end of the day they really aren't skint on lore.

Originally Posted by DesoPL

Honestly? Where is also a lore about Draenei? That Velen come to Swamp Of Sorrows mean nothing.

What needs to be done with the Draenei is a secondary character needs to be established. One who exemplifies the zealous nature of the Draenei and some of their flaws and is willing to encourage military actions. Maraad would fit this role pretty damn well. He's a well respected Vindicator who's also been shown to be a little bit arrogant in the face of many of the Alliance races (He didn't seem overly fond of the Humans in Velen's short story) and very faithful in the Light.

Velen does need to appear at some point. However he is characterized by his constant meditation to view the future of the universe and while he may have completely agreed with the Alliances actions against the Horde during MoP, he himself still sees his "path" as more important. So for him to not personally appear makes sense. It's also worth bearing in mind that the Draenei have been portrayed as incredibly protective of him, they don't want any harm to come to him. Heck they were shocked when he got blood and dirt on his robes "The Prophet lowered himself to the muddied, trampled, bloodied ground, his hooves touching down. There was a collective gasp from the other draenei as the muck stained the end of the Prophet's robes.".

I'm not underplaying the actions of the orcs in the past, but your argument is hardly fair. Azshara, Xavius, Kael'thas, Arthas and Kel'thuzad are all traitors of their own races. Right there is the big difference between then and characters like Orgrim and Grom. Those are venerated because they are indeed orcish heroes that acted for the best of the orcish race.

Pretty much this. A fair comparison would be if the orcs would keep venerating Gul'dan, and indeed Gul'dan is not venerated, is treated like a foul betrayer, and in fact he betrayed his people, he sell all of them to the Legion so that he could satisfy his egoistical lust of god-like powers.

Gul'dan and Azshara are some of the worst non-corrupted villains of Warcraft's history, if we consider that people like Arthas, Kael'thas, Illidan, hell, even Garrosh, had some good intentions at some point or just initially. Gul'dan and Azshara were egoistical bastards caring for themselves alone by the beginning.

Originally Posted by Keyblader

It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact

Originally Posted by Amerrol

So many ignorant Horde fanboys. I guess if you play a savage faction it slowly starts to lower your IQ