Interesting event I guess , first time in 15 years Russian Submarines patrol off US Coast line. According to the article the subs are Akula class attack subs not boomers ,so it is a little less of a threat it seems .

I don't feel that it is all that provocative ... maybe it is ?. I would certainly hope that the Navy tracked em there and was trailing them .

A worry of mine however ,.. is that our Military becomes so focused on fighting guerrilla insurgents and pirates that we let our guard down. Is our navy now more focused on missile threats and sea to land attack then they are Submarine hunting like in the Cold War? I have no knowledge of it .. just curious . I also read the other day that the Navy had grounded a good portion of our P-3C fleet for spar cracks and that it was going to be a while until they were back on line.

Two Akula's 200nm off the East Coast is not exactly the next Cuban Missile Crisis; USNLA Improved are superior in technology and crew quality (due to training) and the USN Seawolf and Virginia class subs have since then relegated everything else under the seas wholly inferior.

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):Interesting event I guess , first time in 15 years Russian Submarines patrol off US Coast line

I have no sources but I would question that 15 year gap. Apparently these subs have also been seen on the surface, they are nuke boats, so whats with coming up for air?
This is probably another publicity stunt, if a normal aptrol they ceratinley would not be that close to be called a pair and the US Navy would not be saying anything. The US Navy has patrols by China, Russia and other areas, no fuss there, figure the Russians do the same.

As for practising ASW, the US Navy has been "reshaping" its capabilities since the end of the Cold War, on paper they are fine, wwhy test them?

Quoting Par13del (Reply 5):I have no sources but I would question that 15 year gap. Apparently these subs have also been seen on the surface, they are nuke boats, so whats with coming up for air?

According to CNN News:

"Two nuclear-powered submarines have stayed in international waters. The U.S. miltary is monitoring these subs but recognizes right to "freedom of navigation". Russia hasn't been able to send subs so far afield for years, military official says

The Akula-class nuclear-powered submarines, which are normally equipped with surface-loaded cruise missiles and surface-to-air missiles, have stayed in international waters, the source said. These are not the class of submarines that can launch intercontinental nuclear missiles."

The American public has an irrational sense of entitlement when it comes to security of its borders.

If they only knew how many assets we have near, on, or beyond the borders of nations we consider enemies... it would make these two Ruskie subs off the coast look like a joke! Hell, off the top of my head, I can think of at least 5 borders of hostile nations, that I've flown along... sometimes purposely doing so in an aggressive manner.

It's the nature of the business. This is what we do. It's hardly newsworthy.

The American public has an irrational sense of entitlement when it comes to security of its borders.

If they only knew how many assets we have near, on, or beyond the borders of nations we consider enemies... it would make these two Ruskie subs off the coast look like a joke! Hell, off the top of my head, I can think of at least 5 borders of hostile nations, that I've flown along... sometimes purposely doing so in an aggressive manner.

It's the nature of the business. This is what we do. It's hardly newsworthy.

Very nicely put.

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.

The American public has an irrational sense of entitlement when it comes to security of its borders.

If they only knew how many assets we have near, on, or beyond the borders of nations we consider enemies... it would make these two Ruskie subs off the coast look like a joke! Hell, off the top of my head, I can think of at least 5 borders of hostile nations, that I've flown along... sometimes purposely doing so in an aggressive manner.

It's the nature of the business. This is what we do. It's hardly newsworthy.

You been delegated to speak for the American public now? Save your self righteous superior Bravo Sierra for the Bar.

Yeah but like the article points out, since the fall of the Soviet Union and evident by more than one submariner catastrophe since then, they haven't had the budget to project their force as they once used to during the height of the Cold War.

What worries me is that the US seems to be focusing everything on the types of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan and forgetting that we are still vulnerable to large countries like Russia. One of the reasons for halting production of the F-22 was we need aircraft aimed at fighting insurgents, not large countries. I find this to be a big mistake, and this Russia incident proves my point. We may think that all future wars will be like the ones in Iraq where you are fighting non technical small groups of people on the ground in cities, but the fact remains that we should be prepared to fight a country the size of Russia or China.

AGM - no I wasn't aiming that at you! I was aiming it at the numerous news outlets/commentators who highlight this story as though its something alarming. And it's not just this story, but go back and look at the overreactions to when two Russian bombers flew down to Cuba, or a few Bears flew along the northern borders of Alaska. Hell, even when the Chinese sub popped up within out carrier group. In these events the media, and some people, act like, "the nerve of those other guys! Who do they think they are?" When in reality, we're doing the same thing, and doing it on purpose. So no worries AGM, we're good.

Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 19):You been delegated to speak for the American public now?

Uhhhh.... I wasn't speaking for the American public. If you go back and read it, I was speaking about the American public.

But if you would like to nominate me to fill that role, sure I'll take it!

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 21):What worries me is that the US seems to be focusing everything on the types of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan and forgetting that we are still vulnerable to large countries like Russia.

Good point, but really a lot of this sub activity is about Russia strutting to remind us their still in the game. Also, the anniversary of the Georgia war is here and this could be muscle flexing to highlight the fact.

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.

Yup... Jaxs is it.... NAS Brunswick is set to close soon... leaving only NAS Jacksonville on the east coast. At one time we had 3 VP bases just on the eastcoast... NAS Brunswick had 4 Squardrons with as many as 30 aircraft stationed there... now just a hand full are left

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"

25 LHCVG
: Yeah, and as far as I'm concerned if they were there for two weeks, that means they just handed us two weeks' worth of sonar recording tapes of some

26 KiwiRob
: I didn't think you guys could track a Trafalgar, let alone its replacement. Diesel electric subs are even quieter the nuclear ones.

27 STT757
: There were more than that, but for the past 15 years or so it's been Jacksonville (3-4 squarons), Willow Grove JRB (2 squadrons) and Brunswick Maine

28 UH60FtRucker
: It would definitely be an interesting concept to bring the new P-8As online for active service, while pushing down the P-3s into Reserve Patrol squad

29 MCIGuy
: Exactly! Far better to have something and not need it than to need it and not have it! As for the subs, I agree with most here who say it's no big de

30 AirRyan
: Uh huh, well if that's the extent of your information on the USN's modern nuclear submarine fleet, than please don't let me be the one to burst your

31 Astuteman
: Whether it's a post-refit example equipped with 2076, or not, will influence that position... That's the fun of these discussions isn't it? Most of t

32 KiwiRob
: Not my info, I heard it from a BAe rep at the last Euronaval Expo. He also said the hardest subs of the lot to track were the Vangards.

33 Astuteman
: Wasn't me guv. In truth, such matters are pretty sensitive, and these days we work VERY closely with our friends and allies in the US Subs fleet (and

34 AirRyan
: Well look at the source; BAE had to ask Electric Boat for help in their Astute manufacturing process. I know the Astute is a fine vessel and I wish t

35 Astuteman
: Are you kidding? When Astute declared an overrun of £500m and 3 years, the UK MOD insisted that EB audit what we were doing. Dumbasses. Do you know

36 KiwiRob
: And what would you call the Collins Class, they are ocean going with a mission profile similar to a nuclear attack sub. There are also some rather ni

37 TheCol
: I doubt there would be much need for more than a couple of P-3's at Whidbey Island. 407 Maritime Patrol Squadron already operates a number of CP-140'

38 Maxter
: And then there is this... A bit dated perhaps, but still an exceptionally capable platform. http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/na...es-formidable-assa

39 StudeDave
: And they (alone) can cover the ENTIRE West Coast of North America??? Those guys are gooood....

40 Olle
: Sweden used to have worse problems Here is a Soviet sub into swedish waters 20 years ago! http://svt.se/content/1/c6/44/87/63/u137_svtbild.jpg

41 GDB
: Olle, that would be the 'Whiskey' class sub that ran aground. As in 'Whiskey on the rocks', as one Scotch company would use in advertising at the time

42 Racko
: How good are the German Type 212 submarines compared to the international competition?

43 Lumberton
: Entering Vlad? That sounds like pub talk or opdec. Why not Petro? That's where the boomers were. Why risk a boat and crew for info that could have be

44 Astuteman
: Go along with that. there's a fair bit of "circumstantial" overlaid on top of the "engineered", as far as I can see Rgds

45 GDB
: Thanks for the interesting link Lumbertown. The 'O' class were one of the high points of British post war designs, both sub and surface vessels. Hence

46 KiwiRob
: It was recently declassified, not pub talk at all, http://www.theage.com.au/news/nation...face/2006/09/07/1157222265317.html Do a goodle search you'l