Pendantically speaking (a common trait in some threads), you are both right; what I see in the words of the 'saint' is the thin edge of a very fat wedge. I think the man displayed an honesty most hide, not only in that genre but in many.

But shucks, gotta believe in something, so why not yourselves, even when you know better?

This afternoon, after my ritual walk, I was so hot that I could hardly think, so I decided to play again a Sierra Club film that I have on DVD about Ansel Adams.

Trying to keep in mind the gist of this thread, and to cut through the while the drone of John Sczarkowski’s commentary, jumping from his voice to others adding their ten cents, it seemed to come over pretty firmly that Adams, far from having the slightest interest in being ‘creative’ was bending over himself in order to try and catch what was in front of him on the several epiphanic moments that affected him most deeply on his hikes and climbs. He was searching to record the literal truth before him.

During the entire run of the film, nothing was mentioned about Zone Systems nor of any other technical trickery or conceit beyond the trend-setting (for him) red filter he almost accidentally decided to use at the end of a shoot up Half Dome, El Capitan or some other rock of disproportionate mass – I forget which (it was a hot afternoon – mine). Odd how often accident seems to play its role (Moonrise – Hernandez?)… kind of fits in with my own theory about landscape photography. However, there were several shots of darkroom work going on, and if the film is to be believed, much shading and burning-in was involved, regardless of any imagined perfection of exposure of negatives! Seems a contradiction lies therein.

What also came across – possibly a crumb of comfort for mere mortals – he was stretched for money right up into his mid-seventies when he met a guy who marketed him and parted the Red Sea.

So, all in all, I conclude that at least one of the icons of our world never seems to have made any claims about creative shooting nor creativity of any form, but certainly paid his dues, working every day of the year except when ill.

It is said that the harder you work the luckier you get.

His early love was music, and after many years of study, his natural talent wasn’t enough to sustain him in the pursuit; a quotation from a letter to his wife-to-be was to the effect that music was wonderful but that the musical world was one built from solid crap. I wonder how he’d have viewed the photographic ‘art’ world of today.

... far from having the slightest interest in being ‘creative’ was bending over himself in order to try and catch what was in front of him on the several epiphanic moments that affected him most deeply on his hikes and climbs. He was searching to record the literal truth before him.

Perhaps to record the truth he saw - but, no, not the literal truth of what was in front of him.

Quote from: Ansel Adams

Many consider my photographs to be in the "realistic" category. Actually, what reality they have is in their optical-image accuracy; their values are definitely "departures from reality." The viewer may accept them as realistic because the visual effect may be plausible, but if it were possible to make direct visual comparison with the subjects, the differences would be startling.

There's no conflict: the differences, apart from the obvious limitations of the optical factors, are all about printing, which has bugger all to do with creativity at the time of capture, which is what creative photography is supposedly all about. (Considering HC-B seldom had any interest in printing his own work, I suggest he would have agreed.)

You might as well claim that if you give an AA neg to fiteeen different printers, then you get fifteen different, creative, works of art. You don't: you get fifteen prints from fifteen printers of different skill levels and with fifteen different perceptions of what's correct or expected from them. That's not creativity - that's just how things are.

Having had dogs for many years, I realise full well that when they find a stick on the beach, they are perfectly happy to have you play tug-o-war with them; I tire of the game before the pooches do.

This afternoon, after my ritual walk, I was so hot that I could hardly think, so I decided to play again a Sierra Club film that I have on DVD about Ansel Adams.

Trying to keep in mind the gist of this thread, and to cut through the while the drone of John Sczarkowski’s commentary, jumping from his voice to others adding their ten cents, it seemed to come over pretty firmly that Adams, far from having the slightest interest in being ‘creative’ was bending over himself in order to try and catch what was in front of him on the several epiphanic moments that affected him most deeply on his hikes and climbs. He was searching to record the literal truth before him.

Rob C

Hi Rob...I think you would really enjoy a book , a 2001 paperbook copy of which I recently found myself with the hours to read. If you would like a very enjoyable look behind the curtain, I would be glad to post off to you my copy of "Ansel Adams Letters 1916-1984" Even the letters between John Szarkowski (during his Museum of Modern Art tenure), and Ansel give a very distinct counterpoint to what was publicly expressed. If you provide an address I will see you have it to read as I don't know that there are copies easily available.My best to you,ACW

I've just picked up your Ansel book from my PO box in the Port of P; I must thank you and let you know you are truly a special person: that postage alone would have made me change my mind about doing anyone a good deed! Thanks again, and if I go offline for a while, everyone will know whom to blame - or thank, depending on one's point of view.

Should you ever grace this isle, I owe you a very good lunch! I shall rephrase that: I already owe you a good lunch; if you blow in here at some stage, then I shall repay my debt.