Im not talking about what I would call "slight deviences" such as S&M, bondage etc......they can all be explained because they are an activity that appertains to sex. What im trying to work is is how for instance really strange sexual devience's are created.

It's not something which a person is born with, and unless childhod sexual abuse is a factor, it generally ISNT a learned pattern of behaviour.

The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

Im not talking about what I would call "slight deviences" such as S&M, bondage etc......they can all be explained because they are an activity that appertains to sex. What im trying to work is is how for instance really strange sexual devience's are created.

It's not something which a person is born with, and unless childhod sexual abuse is a factor, it generally ISNT a learned pattern of behaviour.

well, i think most feel it is a learned or formed pattern. certainly attraction is not a natural thing or any brother/sister childhood would be messed up.

in Africa, even today, many tribes are nudist colonies and there is no apparent mass rape, incest or activity not found in an Amish community.

i don't know about gay. most i have known were just not attracted to an opposite sex, but then childhood events that may cause this could be events that happen in any home any day.

socially unacceptable deviance may be forms of rebellion, as kids seem to all go through. rapist tend to hate women and child molesters seem to lack maturity. dominance may be a factor and as the rapist has to be the aggressor and most any adult can control a child.

makes perfect sense what you are saying...although I was thinkning more along the lines of what causes extreme "weird" deviences, such as....ppl that get attracted to steel or wool or fur, or people that enjoy having their elbows licked or their hair pulled...these are just some of possible many examples of people that seem to get sexually turned on by non-sexual things. Im trying to work out, why ?

The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

makes perfect sense what you are saying...although I was thinkning more along the lines of what causes extreme "weird" deviences, such as....ppl that get attracted to steel or wool or fur, or people that enjoy having their elbows licked or their hair pulled...these are just some of possible many examples of people that seem to get sexually turned on by non-sexual things. Im trying to work out, why ?

in short, i would suggest its the same principle. you or anyone may have any number of fetish's but never know them. likewise what currently turns you on, may not next week. aside from being learned its also tends to change.

we hear and see so much, in media today that would seem not very deviant, but to those around 100 years ago would seems extreme by any person.

pain however is not one. this form of "turn on" is documented in many ancient writings. pulling hair, scratching, bondage is usually to the one turned on or not inflicting. occasionally giving pain becomes such a thing and is again based on sexual control for reason. mother dominance, some bad experience as a child and such....which can become deadly.

women tend to fetish in soft, tender, pretty, cute and so on. blowing in the ear is very common as is sweet talk. few men have such desires, to give or take in...

I saw something a while back about how people are "imprinted" by their first sexual activity or environment. That is, if somehow a pastrami sandwich was involved when you had your first crush, then when you got older, the thought of a pastrami sandwich would turn you on.

But I don't know how much truth to this there is, or even how to check.

There are certain ages during childhood (around age 2, 7 etc) when things imprint on us sexually so what we are exposed to at those times can be very influentual. If we are exposed to unatural things we may imprint on them sexually, such as a rubber glove, a stiletto. Girls seems much less affected by this.

perhaps when someone is aroused, most likely at their most "climactic" arousal, they develop an ultra-sensitivity to their environment and surrounding stimuli, and later in life they subconsciously seek that environment or stimuli in hopes of attaining that initial climactic arousal.
Some people may, for some neurological reason, attach unevenly to stimuli -putting more emphasis on even the slightest hair pull during that first arousal than the other truely sexual things.

I knew a man who was into dogs once, and there didn't seem to be any large event in his life that caused it. When a friendly dog would lick his face, he would open his mouth and become aroused. Yet his parents never molested him, and he seemed to be perfectly normal in every other way.

I knew a man who was into dogs once, and there didn't seem to be any large event in his life that caused it. When a friendly dog would lick his face, he would open his mouth and become aroused. Yet his parents never molested him, and he seemed to be perfectly normal in every other way.

Did he grow up watching Wishbone?

Philosophy consists very largely of one philosopher arguing that all others are jackasses. He usually proves it, and I should add that he also usually proves that he is one himself.
--Henry Louis Mencken.

It's not something which a person is born with, and unless childhod sexual abuse is a factor, it generally ISNT a learned pattern of behaviour.

It's not something which a person is born with, no, but it is possible that people have natural affiliations for such things. Recent studies have shown that certain people (I think it's a genetic thing) are more likely to smoke because they are more subsceptible to niccotine. They aren't born smokers but they are born being more likely to smoke.

Learned behaviour. Again, it is possible that at some point the subject did learn it, just not in an obvious way. What I mean by this is that learned behaviour is gained from birth to about 6 years (most professionals agree with each other on that point) during which time, the child will pick up on any behaviour it sees around it.

I remember visiting calcutta some years back and seeing a feral child. her mother had died when she was four and the next few years she had been living on the streets. The problem is that whilst she had gained four years of human interraction, she had also gained two years on animal behaviour.

She would walk around like a dog and suckle at the teet (sp?) of a bitch, but she could speak to people and was able empathise and was logical in her actions.

The same could happen to most children. If the children see two dogs mating or whatever, they may immitate this behaviour. This is then seen later on in life vis-a-vis sexual deviance.

An old friend of mine walked in on her father watching porn when she was a child, and had until recently repressed it. She never knew why she liked anal sex so much until the father recounted the tale over dinner one night.

Everything is a web of complexities when it comes to this kind of behaviour and I'm still not convinced that it is just nature vs nurture, but I hoped all this helped.