so any web resources on C++? or is it best to buy a book or take a class? i got a friend whos father has been programming for a looong time(writes software for banks) if i get really stuck im sure i could get some pointers from him :).

well a good start is online tutorials and free shells. You can start by just testing out c in basic linux scripts and ****... How i got started is that i helped a few friends program some linux backdoors and false daemons for warboxes and some exploits and ****...

((as many of you know I was one of the first to type up a laymens report on PDG_Cart, Cisco Routers, etc))

If you need any help feel free to ask and i'll help you out. As for shells, look for something that has Pico access, i can't ****ing stand VI..

The best way to answer your question on what language to start with first is with a bit of information. With that information, I'll tell you what to start with and why.

1) Are you a smart study (able to self-teach, good ability to grasp concepts)2) Why and for what do you want to program3) How important is easy and fast programming verses harder and slower programming.4) Do you want to program for windows, linux, or cross-platform (like Java and Perl)?

I think with that I can answer your question intelligently rather than enforcing my personality and circumstance specific opinions on you.

1. yes very much so.2. ive always been intriqued by programing and would like to fully understand it.3.doesnt matter to me right now i have alot of time on my hands.4.i mainly use windows so would prolly be a windows thing.

i looked at some c++ tutorial earlier today and with my past CNC programing experience it just clicked seems natural. now i didnt say i can go write a program but it makes good sense to me.

1) Both are very popular and you'll have no problem with finding learning materials and example code.2) VC++ is a bit harder to learn3) VB programming is a bit faster4) VC++ is more powerful and flexible and can have less overhead than VB

whats the diff between C++ and VC++ ? i looked for Microsoft VC++ and it was all menu driven it looked like. i was under the impression this would be more like just plain text? or is that where the visual? part comes in? anyway used to writing NC programs from scratch but those were just X and Y coordinates and g code. or canned cylces whatever you want to call it.

huh, well, I chose VC++ cause you said "easy to learn" in your first post. But hey, if you don't like that gorge of a GUI VC++ has, then consider GIMP perhaps. I think that's the gcc equivilent for windows. I don't know if it has an IDE or not. LCC is good too (that's what I use), but it is only for C - not C++. You can also go to the Borland website and get there free Borland Command-Line Compiler, it is for C and C++ - absolutely no GUI, just compiler/linker type stuff.

Do I want rapidly deployable applications with fewer options, or do I want in-depth applications with a multitude of options that I will spend more time on?

If you want rapid deployment, learn PHP and Perl. Both free, both SIMPLE to learn. Took me 30 minutes to get the basics of Perl down.

If you want in depth, take the route these guys suggest: C++. Go to your library, find the oldest, most beat up C or C++ book. Beat it up some more; make sure it looks old. Take it to the front desk and say that you think it's too old to be of any use anymore, and ask if you can have it or any other old 'puter books. This is what I do - I have 3 bookcases of books I didn't pay for at home.

Have fun!

Oh yeah - remember this word, "man", before you post anything to a message board it'll save you time.

hmmm i suggest Dev-C++ its for windows its deved by a load of linux geeks and u can even have it look like its on linux - hehe Gnome look! well no thats not the fun part the good part its free and u can dl it from download.com allthough a sad part is that it does not include all header files with it!

but thise are easely aquired over the net!

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The use of "hacker" to mean "security breaker" is a confusion on the part of the mass media. We hackers refuse to recognize that meaning, and continue using the word to mean, "Someone who loves to program and enjoys being clever about it."--------------------"Its not a bug, its a feature" (Epic Games)

C and C++ are gonna be your best bet for learning to do systems and socket programming. Java is also good, because it's essentially as powerful as C++, and is extremely portable. It will run on almost any OS without any change in code. Some good Java tutorials can be found at http://rrfn.promodtecnologies.com/otherfiles.htm