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stat should be starting when he comes back, and after, lets say 4 minutes into the game, he should go to the bench while moving melo to the 4 and JR and Brewer coming in as one of kidd or felton (i prefer felton, better pnr, and kidd has chemistry with chandler)goes to the bench. Then around 3 minutes (after other substitutions for chandler) melo should sit while amare and a felt come in with camby/sheed (better spacing) with JR and novak to give amare good spacing along with good playmaking from our backcourt. (prigs could also come in depending on the situation, also a good pnr player, should do wonders with stat)

It's reasonable for us to be expectant of all our players, and in particular our star players; but we should also pay props where they're due. He's not been terrible. He's been great at points, and sub standard at other points. He started this though and for that he deserves some acknowledgement. There are people who have forgotten he's even part of the Knicks setup due to the amazing start we've made. If he's got any drive left in him he'll be looking to deliver a big slice of shut your mouth when he returns. If he fails, then we've got him to thank for the adequate cover and depth we've developed over the past 3 years.

It's absolutely reasonable to be expectant. But in Amar'e's case, what you'd expect at max money, at 6'11, at 250, and at an athletic level rarely seen in someone that size, "not terrible" and occasionally "sub standard" are not meeting reasonable expectation. The lack of effort, the lack of awareness and predictive anticipation ~ man. He's hardly given us a consistent model worthy of a contract or a leader in over a year.

Originally Posted by p0nder

He rolls just as good as tyson does man.

No, he doesn't. Not with last season being used as reference. In fact, I'd say that Tyson's picks and rolls far exceed those of Stoudemire without recent evidence to the contrary.

Originally Posted by Red

Good points. Basically a player like STAT is only as good as the guards feeding him. Creating off the dribble, although tried many times, is just not his thing. This results in something negative more so than positive. I agree Felt/Kidd/Prig trio will help put him in to better positions to succeed.

As good as TC is, STAT was known as one of the best p&r finishers of our day. That's partly due to his speed, explosiveness, and ability to draw fouls and finish. I believe he led the league in and-1's.

But that's just it... does he still have what it takes to be successful? His speed and explosiveness? Well to be honest he probably has diminished, but he has expanded his game to adapt.

I see how we click, and I see the need for some more scring in the post/at the basket with a big. TC is not that dude. And Melo cannot do that all by himself, or he will get banged up. I see a quasi-need/opportunity for STAT to fit in.

I imagine what a team like the HEAT would think, doubling Melo to get the ball out his hands, only to see him hit:

- a cutting STAT
-AN OPEN Smith/Novak/or Kidd

And I see them struggling to match our size with waves of astute bigs coming at them. You can never have too much size... no homo.

The questions you raise are the reasoning behind my cynicism. I have absolute faith in Woodson to provide the base, but little to no faith in Stoudemire to execute things in a cognitive, intelligent or (most importantly) consistent way.

I don't see quasi need, I see paramount need need for STAT to come in strong, as we move forward in to a continuity not seen in NY since Mark Jackson ruled the pill.

Originally Posted by elcol

Ray was putting all-star numbers up WITH stat running a pick and roll, I don't see how you can say that chandler runs it better when we have all see them run the P&R together and really click well. Amare is also a much better finisher than Tyson but thats obvious. What really is important right now is his defensive effort. I remember with Felton, Amare was getting a few blocks each game and he was really easing into. I'm not sure tho.

With STAT playing at centre as the main offensive option outside of the 3 point bomb, in a highly spaced offence that boasted ZERO post players. Enough said there, IMO.

I'm looking forward to STAT's return to throw this back in your face 8's. He is a better PnR man then Tyson. He often did the soft pick to get loose early. It's designed that way so that he's better able to finish. It's a veteran play, one that Tyson hasn't even whiffed yet. Tyson is very raw on offense though he is getting better and maybe this year he can rise up as a threat on that end but I don't see him out performing STAT in the PnR game.

In his one stint with Felton at the point STAT was going off for 30+ point games and being considered for MVP candidate. I for one can't wait to see that fire rekindled.

yeah well be stronger Offensively... but what about the defense? what about the floor spacing? what about the ball movement? what about the chemistry? I don't want to say Amare will mess everything up but...

Bringing Amare off the bench makes a ton of more sense and makes this team a POWER HOUSE.

Starters

FeltonKiddBrewerMeloChandler

Bench

PrigioniJr smithNovakAmareWallace

When shump returns

PrigioniJr smithShumpNovakAmare

This would make our opponents commit suicide

Agreed EXCEPT. Kidd off bench and shump start, its better for STAT and others with Kidd's ability to make others better.

This team looks like a team, and if STAT accepts that his role isn't the star right now, that he's part of a twelve-man unit, despite his crazy contract he can still bring some value to this team.

I'm hoping beyond hope that he'll accept that role tho.

I'm still kind of weary when it comes to his defense. Whether he starts (please god no) or comes off the bench, he'll still need to contribute at least a little bit on the defensive end.

I also hope that he's learned how to set a screen. Set the screen with some conviction and force the switch, get the ball and have a smaller man contesting your shot - or have a smaller player trying to contend with you crashing to the rim, force the help to come, and make the extra pass. Simple fundamental ish. Constantly slipping the screen and rolling with a big trailing right on his hip is only going to lead to him getting mauled at the rim again.

No more "missed assignments" (his excuse when Diaw cooked him for 27 last season), if he's setting a pick he can't constantly slip it, rebou-......box out to create some easier rebound chances, and most importantly: don't get lost in the shuffle out there. I don't want to see STAT just standing around letting dudes run right by him, or just hanging out on the offensive end. If he can't do anything that'll show up in the box score, then it's time to start playing like a 10 year vet who wants to win a ring.

It's a tall order, but I'm not gonna count him out just yet. But with the way the team is playing right now..he doesn't (and shouldn't) have much time to show up.

I'm still kind of weary when it comes to his defense. Whether he starts (please god no) or comes off the bench, he'll still need to contribute at least a little bit on the defensive end.

I also hope that he's learned how to set a screen. Set the screen with some conviction and force the switch, get the ball and have a smaller man contesting your shot - or have a smaller player trying to contend with you crashing to the rim, force the help to come, and make the extra pass. Simple fundamental ish. Constantly slipping the screen and rolling with a big trailing right on his hip is only going to lead to him getting mauled at the rim again.

No more "missed assignments" (his excuse when Diaw cooked him for 27 last season), if he's setting a pick he can't constantly slip it, rebou-......box out to create some easier rebound chances, and most importantly: don't get lost in the shuffle out there. I don't want to see STAT just standing around letting dudes run right by him, or just hanging out on the offensive end. If he can't do anything that'll show up in the box score, then it's time to start playing like a 10 year vet who wants to win a ring.

It's a tall order, but I'm not gonna count him out just yet. But with the way the team is playing right now..he doesn't (and shouldn't) have much time to show up.

Good points but I think you are not considering one thing...

we have COACH WOOD-SON.

SO when we factor in a coach who holds players accountable, preaches defense, and has galvanized the bunch, STAT reinserted doesn't seem so far fetched.

Switch STAT with Brewer and now we have size and inside scoring with the option of having a lock down defender ready to come in and lock it down, ala Shump last year.

If you doubt STAT you inadvertently doubt coach.

Don't doubt coach. He can get it done with STAT in the starting line-up.

SO when we factor in a coach who holds players accountable, preaches defense, and has galvanized the bunch, STAT reinserted doesn't seem so far fetched.

Switch STAT with Brewer and now we have size and inside scoring with the option of having a lock down defender ready to come in and lock it down, ala Shump last year.

If you doubt STAT you inadvertently doubt coach.

Don't doubt coach. He can get it done with STAT in the starting line-up.

I did forget about Woodson when I wrote that post.

I also forgot about the veteran presence on the team. There are more positive signs that STAT will get his **** together and jell with this team than, negative signs.

He either works at it and willingly comes in and does his job, or Woody & Co. will get on him and make things uncomfortable until he says "****...maybe I should box out a bit more." I never thought about that.

There's always the chance a player could get fed up and become a malcontent, but I don't think Amar'e has that sort of personality.

I'm still not sold on him starting right now tho, I kinda want that pesky perimeter defender with athleticism and size in the starting lineup, so I wouldn't switch STAT for Brewer. I'd rather STAT come off the bench and be option 1 or 1A, depending on how JR is doing. Either Kidd or Pablo, JR, Novak, Sheed, STAT as our second unit.

He can also get some mins in the 4th with Melo, Felton, and Tyson out there. Extra fire power in the 4th for the defense to have to account for.

If stat can return to anything like that. We can be the best team in the league. I know we are playing well right now but I feel like there is just a little something missing, even though we are 6-0. We are a bit undersized. If amare can come back, give us 16-19ppg, 8 rebounds, and 2 blocks. We are so much better. We don't have enough inside scoring

While melo plays well at power forward, Im not sure it will translate to play off ball. Like it didn't last night at all, because he can't drive and dunk with authority as well as someone who plays that position should.

Melo got a lot of great passes down low last night that the stat we just saw in that vid would have easily slammed in for easy points. Yet melo got knocked away several times because he doesn't quite have the size or strength needed with D that intense in your face.

Melo doesn't need to play at powerforward for mismatches. Hes been scoring 20-30 ppg his whole career at small forward. But our offense, and defense, needs a power forward like stat. Good stat that is.

If stat can return to anything like that. We can be the best team in the league. I know we are playing well right now but I feel like there is just a little something missing, even though we are 6-0. We are a bit undersized. If amare can come back, give us 16-19ppg, 8 rebounds, and 2 blocks. We are so much better. We don't have enough inside scoring

While melo plays well at power forward, Im not sure it will translate to play off ball. Like it didn't last night at all, because he can't drive and dunk with authority as well as someone who plays that position should.

Melo got a lot of great passes down low last night that the stat we just saw in that vid would have easily slammed in for easy points. Yet melo got knocked away several times because he doesn't quite have the size or strength needed with D that intense in your face.

Melo doesn't need to play at powerforward for mismatches. Hes been scoring 20-30 ppg his whole career at small forward. But our offense, and defense, needs a power forward like stat. Good stat that is.

This.

I'll add STAT needs to work on his PASSING, MOVING WITHOUT THE BALL, and DEFENSIVE ASSIGNMENTS. He will be fine.

But yeah I feel incomplete, and I've also concluded it's size and post presence we could use. Followed by Perimeter defense ala Shump to thwart the penetration.