I always thought my little Baratza Maestro was a nice match for the Silvia. Then I brought home a used commercial grinder to clean up and install at work...a big old La San Marco. Scrubbed, cleaned, soaked, reassembled. Set it about nine clicks from zero and ground up a few ounces just to give it a try before I packed it up to take to work. BAM! Far better tasting shot than the Baratza I've had at home for years!

So it's pretty obvious I need a better grinder. Budget is pretty tight. I'd like to stay under 500. I think I can pick up a used Mazzer mini (doser) for around 300 but it looks like it might not fit under the 16" cabinet height. The S.O. is not cool with big, expensive commercial equipment that can't tuck under the cabinets. I'd like to stay away from another Baratza as I'm feeling a little cheated by the sub par quality my current one produces. Ideas?

If it's just grind quality bothering you about the Baratza, then they are you best bet for the size and budget. The Maestro is inadequate for espresso. I actually started with one...then got a Rocky and thought oh wow, where have I been hiding?...then I bought a Mini Class grinder (Macap M4), and was blown away. Next step up from the Mini is the Super Jolly, but it's far too big for your cabinets. In walks the Baratza Vario, small enough to get under your cabinet, grind quality rivaling the Super Jolly, impeccable customer service from Baratza. The refurbished units actually fall into your budget. Seems like they were made for you...unless you have another issue with getting a Baratza. They update their refurbished units available on Thursdays, and they come with a one year warranty...check out their website.

.Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!

The Mini or Super Jolly would fit without the hopper; I like the size of the mini better. Shoot, even an older Mazzer Major would fit, but it's a monster. Better question is do you want doserless or doser. There's no reason to buy new except for aesthetic reasons, clean up the used grinder and replace the burrs.

For espresso I use both a Super Jolly (with the short mini hopper so that it fits under the upper cabinets) and a Baratza Vario-W (with ceramic burrs). I find that I use these alternately and can tell little difference in the grind quality from either of them.

The Maestro is NOT an espresso grinder. Never was and no matter what you do to it, will never be one. I used my Maestro (and Maestro plus) for pour over and press grinding which they did an acceptable job with. Both Maestro models have been replaced with a Preciso with an Esatto weight based attachment for my pour over and press grinding.

I appreciate the replies. My bad attitude about Baratzas comes from using the sub par results of the Maestro. It's been a few years now but when it was purchased it was marketed as good entry level grinder for espresso. Now that I've used other machines I realize how much I've been missing. The switch is going out on it as well. Every once it a while it will randomly turn on in the middle of the night. Freaks everyone out!

I'm not a fan of dosers. I use one at work and it seems like in low volume situations it's a bit of a waste.

I'm not afraid of lightly used or refurb machines, but I think the S.O. would veto a bruised up old Mazzer Major, with or without the hopper.

I checked out Baratza's website. I gotta admit the Vario-W packs a lot of tech into a sub 500 dollar package.

I had a Vario, could not stand the thought of a doser, got a very clean Major with a doser for sub $500, after a few months of sharing the counter the Vario was history. More than a year later the doser is still on the Major and I have 0 regrets about the Vario or the doser. If i had landed on the sofa over it I might have some regrets, maybe. :)

Best of luck, tough to go wrong considering the grinders your looking at.

Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.

Dosers aren't wasteful unless they don't sweep clean. There are a few mods out there to make poorly functioning vanes work better (when needed). Dosers tend to be cleaner on the counter (from what I've read -I've always had dosers) and they have less clumping. In the end though, it boils down to personal preference.

.Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!

Dosers aren't wasteful unless they don't sweep clean. There are a few mods out there to make poorly functioning vanes work better (when needed). Dosers tend to be cleaner on the counter (from what I've read -I've always had dosers) and they have less clumping. In the end though, it boils down to personal preference.

not really for most people, though with your counters, that might be the case - I realy don't know for sure. I think most kitchens have 17 3/4 inches clearance, and most of the grinders in the Mazzer Mini class will fit in that space. There was a review several years ago comparing the leaders in that class, such as the Mini itself, the Macap M4, the Compak K3 touch, etc. you should be able to find it on home-barista.com In the review, not only can you read the comments about each grinder, but you can see the results tabulated, and they included the dimensions of each grinder. There was also a thread on here a few months ago dedicated to listing grinder dimensions (maybe it was just heights). It included 10 or more grinders, iirc. You might be able to find it using the search tool.

.Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!

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