It’s all about the Greeks in Europe this week, and really around the world. The Greeks’ debt. The Greeks’ crisis. The Greeks’ stunner of a sudden conversation about voting on whether or not to accept their own bail-out from Europe and the pain that would come with it.

The “hemlock ballot,” wags called it – and it’s off, apparently, already. Greece got in way over its head on debt and spending. Now it’s in a world of hurt and struggling over how to respond. In the Euro-zone, or out. In the streets, or off.

This hour On Point: we talk with Greeks about their close encounter with Greek tragedy, and ours.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 09:58:41 AM by Jetavan »

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

I don't know a lot about Greece but something I've heard many, many Greeks say is that no one in Greece pays their taxes... seems like that might be part of the problem. Its easy to blame bankers but if absolutely no one pays their taxes its the entire country/culture's fault.

I don't blame the banks, I blame the people who allowed socialism to destroy the spirit of a great industrious, heroic people.

PASOK (the Pan Hellenic Socialist Movement), let by Andreas Papandreou, destroyed Greece. When his and the corruption of his government was exposed, he raised the pensions and expanded the government patronage and was reelected. Over 10% of the populous "works" for the government; retiring at early ages; and pensions were paid over a 14 month period. There's little if any manufacturing left. PASOK fully subsidized hotel and resort construction. But the abuse of the tourists encouraged the Turks to develop their beaches, so tourists now take their holiday's in Turkey; how appropriate!

The people who said "No" to Fascism and fought off the vile Communist civil war, are a minority living in villages and the islands (or emigrated); they do not live in Athens and its environs. Their PASOK government signed for the loans that they stole and couldn't afford to repay---now they blame the loaner and their terms? America, take a lesson from the Greeks, see where socialism leads...

"The Wall Street Journal" classified them over a year ago, "PIIGS," Portugal, Italy-Ireland, Greece, Spain.

Poor Prime Minister George Papandreou, he tried but his father's policies destroyed the majority of the people. "The sins of the father will be visited upon the son;" Is that the Old Testament quote? How applicable.

I don't blame the banks, I blame the people who allowed socialism to destroy the spirit of a great industrious, heroic people.

PASOK (the Pan Hellenic Socialist Movement), let by Andreas Papandreou, destroyed Greece. When his and the corruption of his government was exposed, he raised the pensions and expanded the government patronage and was reelected. Over 10% of the populous "works" for the government; retiring at early ages; and pensions were paid over a 14 month period. There's little if any manufacturing left. PASOK fully subsidized hotel and resort construction. But the abuse of the tourists encouraged the Turks to develop their beaches, so tourists now take their holiday's in Turkey; how appropriate!

The people who said "No" to Fascism and fought off the vile Communist civil war, are a minority living in villages and the islands (or emigrated); they do not live in Athens and its environs. Their PASOK government signed for the loans that they stole and couldn't afford to repay---now they blame the loaner and their terms? America, take a lesson from the Greeks, see where socialism leads...

"The Wall Street Journal" classified them over a year ago, "PIIGS," Portugal, Italy-Ireland, Greece, Spain.

Poor Prime Minister George Papandreou, he tried but his father's policies destroyed the majority of the people. "The sins of the father will be visited upon the son;" Is that the Old Testament quote? How applicable.

That's most of the story; but that doesn't excuse the awful human invention of profiting on another's debt which then grows their debt. What banks did to the housing market they're doing to under-performing economies, hastening decline while lining their pockets.

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"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."" Isaac Asimov

Greece should just default on their loans. They've done it before, and won in International Court when sued under the principle that their primary responsibility is to their citizens, and debt payments cannot be forced if it will prevent fulfilling its duties to said citizens.

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."" Isaac Asimov

I don't know a lot about Greece but something I've heard many, many Greeks say is that no one in Greece pays their taxes... seems like that might be part of the problem. Its easy to blame bankers but if absolutely no one pays their taxes its the entire country/culture's fault.

When I lived in Italy, I noticed that the national sport was not soccer but evading taxes (at least in the Southern half of the country). This is not my opinion or conclusion but something that almost all Italians that I spoke to agreed on. Another validation of Adam Smith and repudiation of Communists who do not know their Marx..

Big financiers' heads (and a few others') should be carried on spears amid public jubilation,as they did to the princess of Lamballe.

Just an aside: Your politics are nauseous.

Just an aside: I feel the same about yours. And I would add they only amount to continually fellating those with money.

You know that there is a better way of saying this. Even though this is part of the Free For All forum, the following rules still apply:

* Respect Others -- Things can (and do) get heated on this board... Keep civil and respectful of others.

* Proper Language -- Offensive terms may be bannable based on the context of the sentence. Please use common sense when posting. If you wouldn't say it in church, chances are it probably won't be appropriate here.

I am posting this publicly so that all may be reminded of the rules. Thanks, Second Chance (not posting as this section's moderator)

ADDED on 11/12/2011: Augustin--I took your egregious infraction of the rules to the Board. I have been authorized to put you on warning for 30 days. Any further infraction of the rules listed above will result in additional disciplinary actions. Second Chance