You're still making excuses for PP? what for, since obviously (lol) they weren't in the wrong, caught on tape, cutting deals for 'tissue samples',
over dinner?

Which excuses am I making for PP? I'm asking YOU to stop believing lies and stop supporting GOP members on an obvious witch hunt.

What lies are you talking about? You do realize that the undercover people are in trouble only for using false ID's, right? After the charges were
brought on them, everyone expects the whole thing to drop, but there are still illegal actions going on within PP that deserve investigations. Why
should anyone call that off? Have you watched the videos?

No. There aren't. Are you missing the fact that these charges against CMP resulted from a trial that was investigating PP initially? Instead of
indicting PP, they indicted CMP. That should tell you something.

Have you watched the videos?

Are you a lawyer? No, but you are clearly trying to be an internet lawyer here. I don't care about your or my opinion of those videos. I DO care about
all the legal evidence showing that no legal action has resulted against PP as a result of those videos.

Well, if CMP was so gun ho about going through a discovery process... they wouldn't have fought the discovery process all the way up to the supreme
court in the National Abortion Federation case.

actually the video sting did not backfire. The indictments are for using false IDs to get past the PP persona non grata activist black list. Same
thing sixty minutes used to do in their investigative reporting. The indictments have nothing to do with the veracity of the reports.

Daleiden’s group, the Center for Medical Progress, said in a statement Tuesday that he used “the same undercover techniques that investigative
journalists have used for decades” and is protected by the First Amendment. One of his defense lawyers, Charles LiMandri of the Freedom of
Conscience Defense Fund, issued a statement Wednesday reiterating that Daleiden and Merritt are “investigative journalists … using standard, and
legal, undercover investigative techniques.” The law they are accused of breaking, LiMandri’s statement said, “was never intended to act as a
means of preventing undercover journalists from doing their jobs. Rather, the law was intended to stop people like identity thieves from stealing
Social Security checks from seniors.”

Those arguments won’t do Daleiden and Merritt much good as a matter of law, according to the experts I talked to Wednesday: First Amendment scholars
Jane Kirtley of the University of Minnesota and Eugene Volokh of the University of California; Nicole Casarez, a lawyer and journalism professor at
the University of St. Thomas in Houston; and George Freeman, a former New York Times assistant general counsel who is now executive director of the
Media Law Resource Center.

“The law against fraud applies to everybody, whether you’re a journalist or not, Casarez said. “There’s no First Amendment right to fake a
driver’s license.”

No, journalists don't typically use fake id's and break other laws while going after a story. This article brings up a few cases where journalists
have gotten into trouble for thinking that they were above the laws.

Although this might be more of a scare tactic on the part of the prosecution, it seems that there are two laws in tx pertaining to using fake ID's,
they chose the toughest on, the one that deals with changing a real gov't doc in an attempt to defraud someone, no one that is created from scratch.
Maybe they have the proof that it was an original document, who knows. But it wouldn't surprise me if it's brought down to the lesser charge.

furthermore the indictments came from the same DA office that jury shopped seven times in order to get the former GOP speaker of the House. It is not
an honest legal process down there in that county. It will require PP to open itself to the discovery process. additionally legal experts opine that
the state/PP will lose.

ya know, this is the second time a pro-life group pulled a stunt like this, back in the early 2000's a group did something so similar that it almost
seems that CMP use their guidebook. There was investigations then also, nothing illegal was found, and interestingly enough, the same kind of denials
were heard from the right.

They gripe and complain year after year about how much of their taxmoney is wasted in programs that feed poor families, put a roof over their head,
provide them with medical care, but when it comes to defunding a program that will help families control their own reproduction and thus the number of
children they bring into the world, well, they are willing to beat a horse that many of the old timers should have known was dead to begin with.
After all many were around the first time, they had been there, and done that before, but still beat away, knowing full well that in the end it was
going nowhere. Weather they are in denial, maybe some are, but I do believe that many know danged well the horse is dead! But they need votes, they
need the christian right behind them, so they will beat that dead decaying horse till it stinks up every airway, internet channel, and newpaper in
america!!! And waste money left and right doing it while they whine about the poor sucking their livelihoods out of their pockets!

originally posted by: Psychonautics
Would it really even be a huge deal if they COULD sell human fetuses?

I mean, it's an aborted human being, the parents didn't want it, and it's gonna end up either incinerated or dumped who knows where.

At least selling it to medicine or something would be better than literally nothing.

I don't see how it's a moral issue, then again I am not a proponent of life after death, a corpse is a corpse, to me.

Blame religion. No one will admit it, but all these anti-abortion efforts and attacks against PP are rooted within religion trying to implement
religious law in this country. Think Sharia Law, except for Christians instead of Muslims.

another thing I find interesting is how, whenever a conservative republican doesn't do something that the conservative base doesn't like they all of a
sudden become liberals.

Heck I was told a few times after bush left office that he and his gang were "liberals".

The left and right 'sides' are illusions used to divide us against each other, while they make war for money. They go one way together when it comes
to that, appearing 'divided' when its 'for the people'.

You think the videos backfired? I think they did an amazing job at making people aware of the raw and awful things that go on at Planned Parenthood
and the results from millions of abortions. I didn't think for a second PP would be shutdown or any of the people in the video would every be held
accountable. The videos definitely brought their actions to the front of the news cycle and I don't think anyone will be forgetting anytime soon that
PP encourages women to get abortions and then sells off the dead baby parts.

Looking the other way? What are you smoking? Seriously, some of the VERY states that have investigated Planned Parenthood have also tried to defund PP
only to have the federal government force them to reimplement funding. That screams to me that no one was accepting a bribe to let PP off the hook.
You are just trying to alter events because things didn't play out exactly like you thought they would.

hmmm... you are aware that one of those investigations was on the congressional level....it was chaired by a republican, as it was getting to the end,
it was announced that they would be starting a new investigation, and all the material the investigation obtained would be transferred over to the new
one....well in the in the republican chairperson of that first investigation admitted that there was no evidence of wrong doing on the part of planned
parenthood. Heck does anyone know weather or not they ever brought in the CMP for questioning? I know they grilled the planned parenthood ceo for
quite a while and I also know that the dems in that investigation wanted to ask the CMP people some questions, but never heard weather or not they got
to ask them.

It's a good fight, and you are fighting it well, but you are up against the mindset used by the modern conservative movement in the US:

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Don't expect facts and reality to get in the way of a perfectly good witch hunt.

And the modern conservative movement in the US absolutely DOES NOT let facts get in the way of a good narrative. If scientists used the same thought
model we'd still be trying to build flying machines that work by flapping big wings.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
You think the videos backfired? I think they did an amazing job at making people aware of the raw and awful things that go on at Planned Parenthood
and the results from millions of abortions. I didn't think for a second PP would be shutdown or any of the people in the video would every be held
accountable. The videos definitely brought their actions to the front of the news cycle and I don't think anyone will be forgetting anytime soon that
PP encourages women to get abortions and then sells off the dead baby parts.

You know technically you are right. The videos DID succeed in their intentions. Muddying the waters and appealing to the willingly gullible to the
point that the gullible will fight tooth and nail to deny they may have been wrong in the end. It's on display in this very thread.

But then again that is the intention of propaganda, to deceive the public from the truth.

the videos didn't exactly backfire, did they? I mean, Planned Parenthood HAS lost funding. Has anyone here watched the videos? The unedited ones are
available, if you want to spend 10 hours listening to mostly casual dinner conversation punctuated by grotesque human behavior. But it's cool right,
because "women's rights?" The argument for PP makes zero sense. Yes, I understand that that they are the largest provider of legit services for women,
but they did a lot of shady things. Did they actually reach into a suitcase and pull out an infant's brain? No, but they sure tried to facilitate that
sort of behavior. With them gone another provider, hopefully with ethical standards, can (will) take their place. So, ask yourself, why would someone
be opposed to that?

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