Tuesday, February 18, 2014

Postmodern CofE weddings: "Just ask the church for what you want"

The recent statement from the House of Bishops has confirmed that - in accordance with Catholic doctrine and Church tradition - services of holy gay matrimony will not be performed in the Church of England. But that doesn't stop wedding ceremonies being thoroughly camp.

His Grace thought this website was a spoof - a rollicking send-up of the Church of England's endless capacity for irreverent travesty and self-parody. Alas, it is not: it is the Church's official website dedicated to making that special day really memorable, if not utterly peculiar. "We're here for you", they say:

Wherever and whenever you choose to get married, you make a public declaration of life-long commitment to love each other faithfully and take on a whole new legal status as husband and wife.

There is a page dedicated to the biblical foundation of the institution, but it is couched beneath "What's so special about marriage". In this vacuous, dumbed-down era of post-modern liturgical accommodation to every fad and fetish, "You can choose" exactly the type of service you want. All you have to do is ask the nice vicar:

Our advice would be if you’ve got a dream for your wedding, don’t be afraid to ask the Church what you can do. You might be surprised at the answer you get.

Surprised?

Not at all: there's very little that could surprise His Grace about the Church of England,

They had many loyal pub customers and wanted them to be part of the celebrations too, so they decided to host a themed wedding at their pub which they based on the ‘wild west’.

By the time the wedding arrived, they had transformed their pub car park with a marquee, complete with wild west backdrop, hog roast, cactus table decorations and more than 400 guests in a vast array of cowboy and cowgirl costumes.

Before the party, Andy and Emma had married in a register office, and Emma said: “I wanted to give something back to all our wonderful customers, so we planned this party, but I also wanted my marriage to include a Vicar. It was second time around for both Andy and me and we wanted it to be right. The local Vicar was very supportive and encouraging to us and said he was able to do a type of service in the marquee.”

The service was based on a Thanksgiving for Marriage service in the book of Common Worship.

Our advice would be if you’ve got a dream for your wedding, don’t be afraid to ask the Church what you can do. You might be surprised at the answer you get.

The Vicar, the Revd Tim Sumpter, arrived at the marquee wearing Stetson, leather waistcoat and neck tie, along with his dog collar. The bride arrived shortly afterwards on horseback, in denim cut-off shorts, checked shirt and Stetson.

“Tim completely changed my view of the church,” said Emma. “He was modern and funny but still did a very special service for us. We sat on chairs throughout, and the vows had a contemporary feel. Tim had a bit of fun with us and brought out some ‘Pritt Stick’ in the service to ‘glue us together’. It was brilliant.”

Andy added: “Our wedding really gelled our community and afterwards we were inundated with calls from other couples who wanted to do similar things."

The Vicar brought out some Pritt Stick?

No, you moron: marriage is supposed to be Super Glue: God is the cyanoacrylate whose dense monomers can withstand the fiercest flashpoint and irrevocably bind anything together.

It is true, however, that Andy and Emma were married in a registry office and Rev'd Tim was presiding over a service of thanksgiving. But surely the Way-out-West fancy dress belongs in the registry office. And one wonders, amidst the stetsons, spurs and buffalo herding, whether Jesus got much of a look-in.

And it's not as though this buckaroo bride is a one-off on this website: here's the Rev'd Andy Davies getting into the spirit of a "biker wedding". Yup, whether it's bronco-busting or burning rubber, the jolly CofE has got the party theme for you.

His Grace is all for applying theology to cultural context and making ecclesiology comprehensible. It is good to question traditions, test ideas and challenge sentiment. But not at the expense of theological reality and divine presence. And certainly not to the detriment of matrimonial decorum, ecclesiological dignity, or the exacting quest for holiness.

don’t be afraid to ask the Church what you can do. You might be surprised at the answer you get.

Yes, I'd say, having known a few prickly members of the clergy, depending on the clergyman and the nature of the request, you might be very surprised at the response.

Setting aside that point, the key issue here is that Christians are no longer willing to stand deserted with Christ crucified. So great is the fear of being deserted that Christianity is becoming trivialised by the very people who should be emphasising its sanctity. It's not a popularity contest.

That's a daft comparison. It's hard to build your first Catholic Church in a city where there are already many Catholic Churches. Have you not noticed? Catholics are everywhere. Every Catholic parish I know is full to over-flowing - not just once on a Sunday, but four times. I couldn't tell you about the global south, but I do know that the Church is growing there are huge rate.

As for the lack of central leadership, have you not noticed that that is part of the problem of Islamism?

As someone who was weaned on the 1662 BCP, the contents of which are seared onto my brain, I am appalled by the frivolity which has engulfed many churches. I wouldn't go within a mile of any church embellished with drumkits, big screens, interesting seating arrangements or any of that nonsense. I have long felt that the demise of the BCP is responsible for the sloppy doctrine which abounds. And trendy vicars send a chill down my spine.

However, I am aware that I have turned into Grumpy Old Woman, and that my idea of church is not a resounding success right now, so I think in the right context some of these new ideas should be given a chance. I don't know what conversations took place between the clerics and the happy couple in these particular instances, but so long as it is impressed upon them that marriage must be 'honourable among all men and therefore is not by any to be enterprised, nor taken in hand, unadvisedly, lightly, or wantonly' I don't see too much harm in blessing it in a manner they appreciate.

If we don't accommodate the young to some degree, they will continue to see the Church as being full of crusty old fogies (like me) which is a turn-off. Catch them where they are, and use the opportunity to unfold the faith gently.

The foundations of the Church have been uprooted and until that problem is addressed the Church will remain largely irrelevant to a huge section of the population.

The Church is trying (instead of getting to the root of the problem) be 'relevant' to the modern World.

'Former archbishop of Milan and papal candidate Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini died on Friday aged 85He said the Church had failed to 'move with the times' as was '200 years out of date''

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news.

Darwin came up with' a theory 'about the origins of life which has been accepted as 'fact' by the secular world and by much of the Church. Darwin`s 'theory' is used to deny the validity of the Word of God and IF the foundations of the Bible are shown to be false then the whole Word of God is not to be trusted.This is the problem the Church is facing and why Christians are being opposed when they try to explain the Gospel to a modern world which has been conned into believing the lie of' Darwin`s theory'.

That is irrelevant to your question: we cannot build first churches where we already have many. And why do we have many? Partly, because of our centralised structure, which (among other things) prevents the missionary work of the Church losing energy to interminable arguments about things.

Lack of central leadersip is part of non-islamists problem with islam - islamists themselves are thriving on it...

Thriving at what cost?

Modernisers are killing the CofE - but they get to keep the power and the money (until the death throws are complete), so what do they care?

Now you're getting somewhere. The CofE is pretty uncentralised - a pope in every parish, as the saying went (now it's a pope in every parishioner). It is that lack of centralisation that has prevent the CofE from standing up for traditional Christian belief.

In case I get accused of 'Catholic bashing ' I can only say some of the Protestant Churches are as equally as bad as the Catholic if not worse in some cases.It makes me cringe to see how some Churches present themselves to the World and they would certainly 'turn me off' from what I am seeing presented on TV if I was not a believer already.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the key to eternal life and it appalls me to see how disgracefully it has been treated and presented to the World by many professing 'Christian' Churches.

Don't know what's funnier, the Stetson vicar, buckaroo bride (she looks pretty good to me) or the old prelate's foaming and apoplectic indignation.

At the Wedding at Cana – Our Lord's first miracle and a stunning announcement of the beginning of his ministry – there were many who were upset at the upending of an established tradition (the best wine served first). Jesus did not much care about this and neither should we care about non-traditional wedding ceremonies.

The lovely bride, Emma, said: 'I also wanted my marriage to include a Vicar. It was second time around for both Andy and me and we wanted it to be right.' That is heart-warming, not depressing – she is saying that for a wedding to be done properly God must be present. From the sound of it they are both divorced, so could no remarry in church, though I suspect they both wanted to.

The Revd Tim's willingness to enter into the spirit of the day has probably done more to encourage them and their friends to go to church or see Christianity in a new light than any posting or comment on this blog – that also is heart-warming.

The Revd Tim Sumpter is, I believe, vicar of the Ockbrook and Borrowash parish. This is from their website:

'As part of the Trinity of God – Father, Son and Spirit – we believe that our life as a Christian community is influenced by the power and presence of God through the Holy Spirit. It is the presence of God, now, today and what makes our faith alive and personal.

'Reading and studying the Bible together is integral to our life as Christian disciples and Scripture is read out publicly at every service.'

'Prayer is a crucial part of life for a Christian – spending time in dialogue with God, bringing concerns for ourselves and those around us, and in turn receiving his love and his direction for our lives.'

Your Grace,Marriage provides more and better sex.Sex within marriage has an enduring and unifying quality.I ask myself what the church is suggesting here? Marriage provides more sex? Are they suggesting that sex outside of marriage is ok but you get less of it?This follows on from my recent thoughts on the difference of peoples perception of Adultery and fornication.Even most non Christians have a revulsion for adultery but fornication seems 'Par for the Course' these days. Is it because of the marriage vows that makes the difference? Then why are there so many couples 'Living in Sin'? Maybe it's the availability of contraception that has made sex so easy, in my youth girls were scared to get pregnant. But we have so many single mothers today. Just what is the answer? It must be that people have forgotten about God.

@ IntegritySadly money and opulence are the leaders in many marriage ceremonies. So first the modern way goes, find and move in with partner, then save up, meanwhile possibly having children. When you have enough dosh stored book the reception pay out top dollar for the mega-dress, and dance into the night. If you like that sort of thing have a vicar and a church as part of it, but remember to book them only after you have got the reception sorted. At the service you will generally choose 3 out of a range of about 6 hymns, a third to a half of which are most suitable for young children and not for someone of a mature faith.

As for the pritt stick it is probably about accurate for the average length of marriage. The superglue couples still exist, bless them, but are the minority, even in firm intention on the day.

The church should care so much we want to give the best. I am fine with no robes for the Vicar if that's what people want but surely tight jeans are unsuitable, surely, please....

The problem I see is that Christians happily send their children to places that are aggressively antagonistic to the Christian faith. Some are even deluded enough to believe that the little ones will be salt and light in these places, when the reality is that they are no match for an organised assault on their tender faith. This is coupled to peer pressure is brutal and effective.

If we send our children to Babylon to be educated we shouldn't be surprised at the end result.

The Inspector has told me that Mrs Proudie likes nothing more than to invigorate herself with smelling salts, disrobe down to her bonnet and engage in vigorous carpet beating, so is unlikely to be shocked.

Very true of a considerable (and growing) part of it. But there are many traditional and orthodox churches remaining - both evangelical and anglo-catholic. They regard it as their highest ecclesiastical duty to remain and restore the CofE to its Gospel purpose. They may fail eventually; they may be thrown out or otherwise dispossessed. But it is their Christian duty to try to prevent, if at all possible, the CofE from going the way of TEC in America.

I don't think that extremes, like this, ever tell us much about the average, old journalistic device though it is. But I agree that, reflecting society, weddings have become too consumerist, losing their central meaning. That's why many vicars prefer funerals, when they congregations are in a sober, reflective, listening mode, rather than "show off", but superficial weddings.

The centralist vs decentralist dispute is also a very old one, having always applied across the spectrum of human activity. The tension between pros/cons of central/decentralized models of organization has existed since geographically spread larger scale human activity first started. There too simplistic answers abound. Both systems can work well, or badly. Dogma is to be avoided. If it works, it works.Good central direction can be a blessing. But make it a dead heavy hand, or just plain wrongheaded, and it does immense harm to local shoots and initiatives. Similarly local energies can reflect the work of The Spirit, but it must the true Holy Spirit, not impersonators, that are leading; in dubious situations good central authority would correct any such errors.Often a hybrid model, of defined, limited local autonomy works well across a range of organizations staffed by humans. Good local managers/priests should be granted more autonomy, rewarding success and fostering autonomy. That's my opinion. There are deep problems with the C of E, but is His Grace suffering these last few weeks from a touch of masochism and self - basement perhaps, I ask respectfully? Maybe it's winter gloom feeding "Black Dog". Do I recognize the symptom, perhaps?

Hear, hear, well said, Your Grace. Especially, "Surprised? Not at all: there's very little that could surprise His Grace about the Church of England...

Just so you don't think you're alone pulling at your hairs, a rabbi friend was once asked if the Dad could bring his son to the reading of his Torah portion for his Bar Mitzva on the back of a Harley Davidson. My shocked friend said no, but the family found a synagogue that let them do it, although apparently not with the 1200 cc engine booming and spewing blue smoke all over the sanctuary. Fire code restrictions and insurance regs, not sudden emergence of common sense, I'm afraid.

the vicar on the Harley dressed in his robes looks a bit of a prat, in my opinion. But that's post-modernism for you, as Cranmer says, falling over backwards not to appear authoritarian - doesn't leave a whole lot of room for God, who is the ultimate authority does it ? But society will learn, painfully, I predict. Like all ages it will pass, but not while I'm this side of eternity I think.

Cheer up Your Grace. Can we have positive stories of the Christian Church next, even of the C of E ?They do exist ! Anglicanism is booming in the global south, not that they think a great deal nowadays of the present incumbent of Augustine's chair.

You can pretend that the CofE is uncentralised, but how do you explain women vicars and now bishops against sizable objections?

Women clergy in the CofE reflects something of the uncentralised nature of the CofE. Remember: these things go through Deanery and Diocesan Synods long before they come to the centre. In these local fora they tend to have much greater support than they have in the centre. Moreover, even when these things pass, it remains down to local clergy and parishes whether they accept them.

Contrast that with the Catholic Church. In the early 1990s there was pressure in the Catholic Church for the unscriptural innovation. Pope John Paul II gave a resounding "No" and the movement has largely died away.

Feel happy and smug as it disintegrates if that is 'your bag' - but others will see it as the disservice that it is.

I wasn't feeling happy and smug about it. Life would be better for Catholics if the CofE were stronger - and not just in this country. Think of how Catholics and other Christians suffer in Muslim countries simply because Protestants in the West are so liberal about homosexuality.

I think you've forgotten where we started off: you were saying that the centralisation of Christian groups was the problem. I was simply observing that the evidence stands against your view. That doesn't make me smug or happy; it's just a fact.

Your Grace,There seems little in the NT about the form of worship. They certainly prayed, sung hymns, broke bread and wine and had long sermons by the sound of it if someone fell asleep and fell from a window.On the basis of this, we can have whatever form we feel is appropriate and I think that worship should be progressive as long as it is spirit lead. The style of Cranmer from the 16th Century is not for every one.

Goodness! Where to begin... dear Bluedog, in Barchester we ALL wear period costume, buttoned up to the neck and boned to the core. Dear Mr Explorer, why of course Happy Jack was referring to Lazarus, what else? And dear Ars Hendrik, disrobe myself? Why, I have only done so once at Brighton and even then in the privacy of the bathing machine. As for carpet beating, one has servants for that caper... However, addressing the ghastly theme of this thread, where will all this nonsense end? What happened to the beauty of tradition? When did parish priests cease being gentlemen and turn into circus clowns? Sabine Baring-Gould, Octavius Pickard-Cambridge and their ilk must be turning it their graves...

Don’t be too hard on Andy and Emma, old chap. They did freely invite Tim the modern vicar, and one is suitably impressed that in this age of crass godlessness, which the secularists are not only crowing about, but helped achieve, there is still room for the spiritual side. Of course, it is regrettable that it’s the second time for both of them, but as we all know, marriage is up against that most insidious of enemies, the pursuance of self interest, whatever the cost to yourself, and those rejected by you.

A peasant’s medieval wedding would have quickly decamped to a barn where a giant drinking binge would take place. With the unconscious laying around on bales of straw as the night progressed, probably including the groom by the end. The wild west setting looks a definite improvement on that !

It’s all a question of standards, you know. We are living in an age where crassness is prized. The old values of decorum have all but gone. We can thank banal influences like television and of course, the destruction of the grammar school, that bed rock of standards.

And Archbishop, there’s always hope. Perhaps standards will once again improve, as they did massively in the 19th century. But having returned from the centre of town at lunchtime and seen the tattoos, the body piercings, the daft hairstyles, the cheap and nasty garments worn, and the obesity they are thankfully covering, it won’t be in our lifetimes…

Goodness, Happy Jack! One has seen a bit of the world you know! I have often visited Cranford and Middlemarch, and the Mayor of Casterbridge once made us very welcome on our Cream Tea tour of Wessex. Mr. Slope also visits his friend, a Mr Dorian Gray, in London, and I believe is having his portrait painted by a dear friend of Mr. Gray's...I don't know where we shall put it but Mr Slope says he has to be well hung. I think the privy in the Eeast Wing is the ideal spot...

Before the party, Andy and Emma had married in a register office, and Emma said: “I wanted to give something back to all our wonderful customers, so we planned this party, but I also wanted my marriage to include a Vicar. It was second time around for both Andy and me and we wanted it to be right. The local Vicar was very supportive and encouraging to us and said he was able to do a type of service in the marquee.”

I'm guessing that their previous spouses are still alive. The Vicar's response should have been 'No'.

This is exactly where I saw the CofE going. Instead of being transformed by the renewing of your mind(s), it is conforming to the society in which it is situated. On some US blogs, I know that people who generate such nonsense as this are seen not as Christian but rather as 'churchian'.

Perhaps if the CofE insisted that its clegy preach on 1 Corinthians 7 at least once every year, people would see some benefit in church weddings.

About His Grace:

Archbishop Cranmer takes as his inspiration the words of Sir Humphrey Appleby: ‘It’s interesting,’ he observes, ‘that nowadays politicians want to talk about moral issues, and bishops want to talk politics.’ It is the fusion of the two in public life, and the necessity for a wider understanding of their complex symbiosis, which leads His Grace to write on these very sensitive issues.

Cranmer's Law:

"It hath been found by experience that no matter how decent, intelligent or thoughtful the reasoning of a conservative may be, as an argument with a liberal is advanced, the probability of being accused of ‘bigotry’, ‘hatred’ or ‘intolerance’ approaches 1 (100%).”

Follow His Grace on

The cost of His Grace's conviction:

His Grace's bottom line:

Freedom of speech must be tolerated, and everyone living in the United Kingdom must accept that they may be insulted about their own beliefs, or indeed be offended, and that is something which they must simply endure, not least because some suffer fates far worse. Comments on articles are therefore unmoderated, but do not necessarily reflect the views of Cranmer. Comments that are off-topic, gratuitously offensive, libelous, or otherwise irritating, may be summarily deleted. However, the fact that particular comments remain on any thread does not constitute their endorsement by Cranmer; it may simply be that he considers them to be intelligent and erudite contributions to religio-political discourse...or not.

The Anglican Communion has no peculiar thought, practice, creed or confession of its own. It has only the Catholic Faith of the ancient Catholic Church, as preserved in the Catholic Creeds and maintained in the Catholic and Apostolic constitution of Christ's Church from the beginning.Dr Geoffrey Fisher, Archbishop of Canterbury, 1945-1961

British Conservatism's greatest:

The epithet of 'great' can be applied only to those who were defining leaders who successfully articulated and embodied the Conservatism of their age. They combined in their personal styles, priorities and policies, as Edmund Burke would say, 'a disposition to preserve' with an 'ability to improve'.

I am in politics because of the conflict between good and evil, and I believe that in the end good will triumph.Margaret Thatcher, Baroness Thatcher LG, OM, PC, FRS.(Prime Minister 1979-1990)

We have not overthrown the divine right of kings to fall down for the divine right of experts.Harold Macmillan, 1st Earl of Stockton, OM, PC.(Prime Minister 1957-1963)

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.Sir Winston Churchill, KG, OM, CH, TD, FRS, PC (Can).(Prime Minister 1940-1945, 1951-1955)

I am not struck so much by the diversity of testimony as by the many-sidedness of truth.Stanley Baldwin, 1st Earl Baldwin of Bewdley, KG, PC.(Prime Minister 1923-1924, 1924-1929, 1935-1937)

If you believe the doctors, nothing is wholesome; if you believe the theologians, nothing is innocent; if you believe the military, nothing is safe.Robert Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury, KG, GCVO, PC.(Prime Minister 1885-1886, 1886-1892, 1895-1902)

I am a Conservative to preserve all that is good in our constitution, a Radical to remove all that is bad. I seek to preserve property and to respect order, and I equally decry the appeal to the passions of the many or the prejudices of the few.Benjamin Disraeli KG, PC, FRS, Earl of Beaconsfield.(Prime Minister 1868, 1874-1880)

Public opinion is a compound of folly, weakness, prejudice, wrong feeling, right feeling, obstinacy, and newspaper paragraphs.Sir Robert Peel, Bt.(Prime Minister 1834-1835, 1841-1846)

I consider the right of election as a public trust, granted not for the benefit of the individual, but for the public good.Robert Jenkinson, 2nd Earl of Liverpool.(Prime Minister 1812-1827)

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.The Rt Hon. William Pitt, the Younger.(Prime Minister 1783-1801, 1804-1806)