It is not the right time to ship Bargs in my opinion. This effectively tells a potential suitor that he is so bad that we can't even wait out pre-season to see if he blossoms. It is not like adding one more player is going to get us over The Hump, so what's the rush? It isn't as if anyone who might be interested doesn't already know about the mediocre rebounding and soft defense, so his stock is not likely to drop much in the next 2-3 months.

Personally, I would send a clear message to B and basically say: you have until December to prove you can be the player we want you to be in the system we want to run. If not, no hard feelings but let's move in a different direction before much longer.

The absolute WORST thing that could happen is that we are have to have this conversation again next year. If B makes it through this year without improvement AND without a trade I will be upset.

Agree, I will give him until December to show some improvements(which will be unlikely) and ship him out. That draft pick was a huge mistake and I have already accepted Bargs is a bust(Kwame Brown, Kenyon Martin, Michael Olowokandi, Sam Bowie and Greg Oden are also busts). What we can hope for as Rap fans is that with a likely Top 5 pick in the 2011 draft, we don't make same mistakes like the Bargs, Graham and Araujo picks, if not, we officially become LA Clippers North.

The sky is falling!..The sky is falling!...It's been two whole PRESEASON games and Bargnani hasn't done much!!! Quick, let's trade him, his career is obviously over and his new haircut isn't that great either...
Gimme a break! Everyone on here who has lost their minds and given up on Bargnani after two whole PRESEASON games needs to give their heads a shake!
First off, the only PRESEASON games that matter to any degree are in the middle and towards the end of the PRESEASON.
Secondly, PRESEASON has always been more about players who are fighting for starting spots or minutes to prove their abilities not for already proven starters.
Finally, I knew all the haters would be all over him because all of them are just waiting for any meaningless excuse to justify their ridiculous posts. Ask any real basketball person and they will tell you that you NEVER get to high or low during PRESEASON action. It's basically a time to develop the offensive and defensive system in real game action, younger players (rookies and sophmores) to prove themselves and earn a spot and get or continue to stay in game shape.

It is WAY TOO EARLY to pass judgement on Bargnani or any other player who is struggling thus far and also just because a player is playing well this early doesn't mean their going to be an all-star this season.
All the haters need to take a deep breathe, relax and concern themselves with more important matters like...work, a social life, relations with members of the opposite sex or same sex in sirchilly's case and a productive hobby at least until the real season begins...

Agree, I will give him until December to show some improvements(which will be unlikely) and ship him out. That draft pick was a huge mistake and I have already accepted Bargs is a bust(Kwame Brown, Kenyon Martin, Michael Olowokandi, Sam Bowie and Greg Oden are also busts). What we can hope for as Rap fans is that with a likely Top 5 pick in the 2011 draft, we don't make same mistakes like the Bargs, Graham and Araujo picks, if not, we officially become LA Clippers North.

OK, putting Bargs in the same basket as Graham and Araujo is just plain mean. His problem is that people had great expectations being the no.1 pick in the draft, but let's face it they were unrealistic. That must have been one of the all-time worst draft classes, and BC saw in him a guy who can stretch the floor. He is exactly that kind of player. What everyone was hoping was that he can improve his defense and rebounding and become one of the best big men in the league, but we can safely say that won't happen. So he is what he is, a good shooting big man (which always has value in this league), but poor defender.
The real question is does Bargs fit into Raptor plans? If we are in total rebuild mode of course we would trade him for a descent offer, but after the off-season does anyone really think BC wants to go that way?

Let me first say that I'm personally not a Bargnani fan, but remember, its been well known that GMs around the league have salivated at Bargnani's skill set and the mis-match problems he creates. He was picked #1 for a reason, and its probably not just the raps that would have done that. Have to learn how to use him effectively, thats all, give it time.

I think it is unfair to put the poor pre-season efforts just on Bargnani. Yes his shot wasn't falling, but it's pre-season and even the best shooters have off nights.

My bigger concern is the overall gameplan, or lack thereof. To think that Bargnani stands out of the 3-pt line all the time because he's lazy and wants to play there, is complete ignorance. Bargnani is there because he is told to be there. Triano has come out and said that through the first 2 games, there have been no set plays for any specific player. I think Triano should be running set plays for Bargnani in the paint, posting up. Bargnani has solid offensive skills, but he seems more like a player that needs to know what plays are being run to know where he should be and what he should be doing - he does not strike me as the type of player who would do well in a pickup game where everything is chaotic. At times in the Phoenix game, the YGZ were hogging the ball and seemed only interested in looking for their fellow YGZ - I am not making an excuse for Bargnani, though I do think a good coach would realize what type of gameplan is needed for Bargnani to thrive, in order to get the most out of him. A gameplan with no set plays is not the right gameplan for that.

Bargnani just needs to get into better gameshape (to get his stamina and legs under him), find his rythym and get used to playing the run-and-gun style of play. There is no reason to expect that to happen through just 2 games. In addition, Triano needs to run more of a defined gameplan with at least some set plays for Bargnani, which force him to post up and to get him some open looks. Like any streak shooter, Bargnani needs to be involved early on and get a couple easy shots to fall, otherwise he gets complacent and forces bad shots.

I hope Bargs gets dunked on 100 times this season just like that... because if he is it means he's contesting the help-side defense and challenging attempts at the rim. Even the announcers were like "Bargnani was right there..." - He challenged the dunk attempt without fouling him and Lasme had a difficult time putting that down (to the point of landing on his ass) which is all you can ask of a big man trying to cover up someone else's mistake (albeit Dorsey was in a bad mismatch)

I think some of you are misunderstanding what is being said... to simplify: Bargs is great, he does alot of things well but its in the raps best intrest to trade him now and collect some decent assets for the future. Jjust cause some of you like bargs (myself included) doesnt mean he should be on te raptors. other Gms show intrest in him. Maybe the raps can pickup something good.

Open your minds and look at the big picture... its time
David fricken-anderson is playing better then Andrea right now.... Cmon MAN!

I think some of you are misunderstanding what is being said... to simplify: Bargs is great, he does alot of things well but its in the raps best intrest to trade him now and collect some decent assets for the future. Jjust cause some of you like bargs (myself included) doesnt mean he should be on te raptors. other Gms show intrest in him. Maybe the raps can pickup something good.

Open your minds and look at the big picture... its time
David fricken-anderson is playing better then Andrea right now.... Cmon MAN!

Great points. Trading Bargnani is about making the team better and getting more assets or acquiring pieces to help the team. It has nothing to do with if he is your favourite player or not. I think any decision about trading Bargnani would have to be made only after seeing Davis in action.

I ask this question because this thread has turned in to trade him or not:

If you want to trade Barganani, what do you want in return?

*Please be realistic, meaning no sense sending Bargnani to OKC for Durant or Miami for LBJ or NOH for Paul*

Here are my suggestions - some would need to wait until off-season or until Bargnani's BYC is expired:

1) Sign and trade Jeff Green for Bargnani in the off-season. I'm not sure how much Green will be looking for but 5 years at $45-50M seems reasonable given the current market. Green is a true wing player who has never played his proper position in the NBA. The fact he does what he does behind Durant and Westbrook is amazing. Durant rebounds very well and Aldrich is looking to be the banger and grinder they need in the middle. I think Bargs would fit well here and Green would fit well with the Raps. It would probably push Kleiza to the second unit.

2) Bargnani to LAC for Kaman. Kaman is an all-star quality centre. Bargnani would fit well with Blake Griffin IMO.

3) Bargnani to Orlando for Gortat, Anderson, draft pick.

4) Bargnani to GSW for Biendris and draft pick. *IF Biendris has proven to return to 2 seasons ago form*

Not necessarily saying I'd do these but I could see them working for each team.

My bigger concern is the overall gameplan, or lack thereof. To think that Bargnani stands out of the 3-pt line all the time because he's lazy and wants to play there, is complete ignorance. Bargnani is there because he is told to be there.

This is one of my biggest complaints among his excuses. First of all, no, Bargnani is not told to stand out by the three point line and not be active in the offense. He's there because that's where he's most comfortable. When there's no gameplan on offense, everyone does what they're most comfortable doing.

And why does Bargnani need to get in better gameshape when he's been playing basketball all summer? There are four guys who can't use the excuse that they need to get in better shape: Kleiza, Andersen, Barbosa and Bargnani. Three out of the four of them have played well so far.

And besides, Bargnani's shooting woes is something most people care in the least about. He's still shown himself to be a liability on defense and on the boards. I think we all could live with Bargnani shooting poorly if he showed us something else. But he hasn't. Personally, I don't give a crap how he's shot, but the fact of the matter is that when he's missing, he's a big liability, and when he's not, he's still a liability, just not as much.

Your whole comment was about his offense, and that is the least of his problems.

1) Sign and trade Jeff Green for Bargnani in the off-season. I'm not sure how much Green will be looking for but 5 years at $45-50M seems reasonable given the current market. Green is a true wing player who has never played his proper position in the NBA. The fact he does what he does behind Durant and Westbrook is amazing. Durant rebounds very well and Aldrich is looking to be the banger and grinder they need in the middle. I think Bargs would fit well here and Green would fit well with the Raps. It would probably push Kleiza to the second unit.

2) Bargnani to LAC for Kaman. Kaman is an all-star quality centre. Bargnani would fit well with Blake Griffin IMO.

3) Bargnani to Orlando for Gortat, Anderson, draft pick.

4) Bargnani to GSW for Biendris and draft pick. *IF Biendris has proven to return to 2 seasons ago form*

Not necessarily saying I'd do these but I could see them working for each team.

1) I like Green and was one reason I wanted Bosh to sign with Oklahoma. He's a poor PF, but I think he'd be an above average SF. Only problem is that the Raptors already have a SF, now. Of course, I don't think Kleiza is good enough not to go after Green. Overall, I like it.

2) Kaman is a very productive player whose also not a very good defensive player. No thanks.

3) I think this makes sense for both teams. Bargnani can play at the PF position and back Howard up. Gortat would probably flourish with the Raptors. Don't know I'd want Anderson, though.

4) There was a time I liked Biedrins, but he's played in a bad system so long it's hurt his development. He's actually not a good defensive player and he's paid far too much.

Personally, I'd like to see if the Raptors can get Rubio and maybe a draft pick or another player off of Minnesota for Bargnani.

I think the Knicks would be a great team for Bargnani to go to, but I don't know if there's anything they have I'd want.

Maybe New Jersey would trade Derrick Favors for Bargnani, in the hope Favors can be a center.

Possibly a sign and trade for Marc Gasol?

Phoenix might want to trade TUrkoglu for him in a couple of months. Okay, I just wanted to see if you were paying attention.

I haven't agreed with everything Colangelo has done, but at the time, Calderon got a decent contract. He was coming off a very good second half of the season and was being courted by Pat Riley in Miami. It was evident, at that time, that Calderon was the PG of the future for the Raptors.

And Bargnani's contract is certainly not bad at all. I don't know why you'd say that. He's making $8 million this season, which is 1 million less than Boris Diaw, 5 million less than Antawn Jamison, 8.5 million less than Kenyon Martin, and is currently the 16th highest paid center in the league. There are several things you can criticize Bargnani for, but being overpaid, at this point, is not one of them.

Fair enough.

But I was against giving Jose that contract at the time because he had never played a full season as the primary starter for TO. Subsequent to that contract he has been very injury prone to say the least unlike Jack who hasn't missed a regular season game in 3 years but one would need a crystal ball to see that coming.

Bargnani got his contract extension based on exactly what? Potential? I'll give Barg's 20 regular season games to gauge where his play is at in relation to his contract. There are alot of bad contracts in the NBA- can't argue that, & Barg's may or may not end up as one of them- it's all up to Bargnani.

As well, Jose & Bargnani (the 2 highest paid Raptor's for 2010-11) are tying up 17 million real dollars (Barg's is a BYC....smh) that could be used to upgrade TO significantly not to mention that either one or both could eventually be on the bench this season when the Rap's start games.

1) I like Green and was one reason I wanted Bosh to sign with Oklahoma. He's a poor PF, but I think he'd be an above average SF. Only problem is that the Raptors already have a SF, now. Of course, I don't think Kleiza is good enough not to go after Green. Overall, I like it.

2) Kaman is a very productive player whose also not a very good defensive player. No thanks.

3) I think this makes sense for both teams. Bargnani can play at the PF position and back Howard up. Gortat would probably flourish with the Raptors. Don't know I'd want Anderson, though.

4) There was a time I liked Biedrins, but he's played in a bad system so long it's hurt his development. He's actually not a good defensive player and he's paid far too much.

Personally, I'd like to see if the Raptors can get Rubio and maybe a draft pick or another player off of Minnesota for Bargnani.

I think the Knicks would be a great team for Bargnani to go to, but I don't know if there's anything they have I'd want.

Maybe New Jersey would trade Derrick Favors for Bargnani, in the hope Favors can be a center.

Possibly a sign and trade for Marc Gasol?

Phoenix might want to trade TUrkoglu for him in a couple of months. Okay, I just wanted to see if you were paying attention.

I thought Kaman was alright defensively. He is certainly a step up from Andrea. Maybe I overestimated his ability there.

Favors would be a risk at this point IMO but I do think he'd work well with Lopez - although Lopez is not a great rebounder for his size and position.

I can't see letting Gasol go for Bargnani because having Randolph (while a free agent next year) and Bargnani would be the worst defensive PF/C combo in the league.

Minnesota trade Rubio for Bargs I would totally go for but I don't think we'd be getting a draft pick from them nor do I think we should send them a draft pick.

At this point in the game Bargnani needs to send Lasme to the foul line- point blank. Hopefully this type of play or lack of game situation recognition from Barg's won't carry over into the regular season.