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Re: Do You Need Formal Teaching To Meditate?

All, Thank you for your thoughts, guidance, and opinions. I believe it all makes sense. I suppose the trouble I am dealing with is starting. Since I am a

Message 1 of 15
, May 25, 2010

All,

Thank you for your thoughts, guidance, and opinions. I believe it all makes sense. I suppose the trouble I am dealing with is starting. Since I am a researcher and my research involves meditation directly I am exposed to hundreds of studies, books, journal articles, etc., everyday. I know why meditation works, I know how meditation works, and I know what areas of the brain are stimulated through meditation. I've read several Dalai Lama books, Thich Nhat Hanh, Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche, and other respected teachers. I've written a 150 page dissertation on the subject

Yet I sit down to try it myself and find that I don't even know where to begin. How can I advocate something I can't even do?! Hence I went to the Kadampa Center for guidance and was given a variety of opinions; "You should start with a teacher." "You don't need a teacher." "You're over complicating things."

I understand what Chris is saying about simply looking for a way to de-stress and how a teacher may not be necessary based on what one is looking for. I also understand Bryan's feelings on trial and error because what works for one person may not for another.

Am I trying too hard? Have I complicated something that should not be so complicated?

Katrina

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Boozell <cjb@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Katrina,
>
> "My question is if there is a proper way to begin? Can someone with no experience truly grasp the concepts by themselves? Does the kind of technique matter here?" This can be a provocative question and I'm sure you'll hear many thoughts. The answer to this question is: it depends on your goals.
>
> Learning the mechanics of locus, or centering, meditation is the work of about 5 minutes and involves 2 primary skills: 1) placing your attention on some object of your choice, and 2) paying attention to what your mind is doing so you can bring your back to that object when thoughts wander. In the beginning, the emphasis is on the second skill, but as you develop the habit of attending to one particular object that need will fade a bit.
>
> If you are simply looking for a sure-fire way to destress, those two skills will do you just fine, and it won't usually be necessary to connect with a teacher. This approach is the basis for the popular 'The Relaxation Response', and is very approachable by just about anyone.
>
> But if you are interested in using those meditative skills for something more involved, as in spiritual development, a teacher would be very valuable. There are a number of reasons for this: there are several modes of meditation, and having an experienced spiritual advisor can help you understand how, when and why you might employ each mode. Also, without an advisor/teacher, our spiritual efforts tend to focus on things we already grok, and avoid the stuff we aren't comfortable with (or haven't even thought to look into), which usually dampens our progress. A good teacher can make sure you look in all the metaphorical 'dusty corners' that we could otherwise miss.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Vigilate,
>
> Chris Boozell
>

Aideen Mckenna

Dear Katrina, In short, yes. That s MHO. Listen to Nike & Just Do It. I meditated for some time & then discovered all the books & articles etc. I may well

Message 2 of 15
, May 25, 2010

Dear Katrina,

In short, yes. That’s MHO. Listen
to Nike & Just Do It. I meditated for some time & then discovered all
the books & articles etc. I may well have read hundreds. I don’t
really regret having done that, but I noticed that the more I read about
meditation, the less I meditated. I became anxious. Should I be doing this
rather than that? Did I leave this until too late in life? It was like
quitting smoking to stop the compulsive reading, which had become a way to
avoid the cushion & the concomitant anxiety & doubt. Ridiculous,
because I like to meditate; I’m happier & more peaceful when I
practice regularly.

As for the teacher question, I think you
don’t need a teacher at first, but later in your practice, you may find
that you do. When/if you need one, you’ll meet one.

Thank you for your thoughts, guidance, and opinions. I believe it all makes
sense. I suppose the trouble I am dealing with is starting. Since I am a
researcher and my research involves meditation directly I am exposed to
hundreds of studies, books, journal articles, etc., everyday. I know why
meditation works, I know how meditation works, and I know what areas of the
brain are stimulated through meditation. I've read several Dalai Lama books,
Thich Nhat Hanh, Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche, and other respected teachers. I've
written a 150 page dissertation on the subject…

Yet I sit down to try it myself and find that I don't even know where to begin.
How can I advocate something I can't even do?! Hence I went to the
Kadampa
Center for guidance and was given a variety
of opinions; "You should start with a teacher." "You don't need
a teacher." "You're over complicating things."

I understand what Chris is saying about simply looking for a way to de-stress
and how a teacher may not be necessary based on what one is looking for. I also
understand Bryan 's
feelings on trial and error because what works for one person may not for
another.

Am I trying too hard? Have I complicated something that should not be so
complicated?

>
> Hi Katrina,
>
> "My question is if there is a proper way to begin? Can someone with

no experience truly grasp the concepts by themselves? Does the kind of
technique matter here?" This can be a provocative question and I'm
sure you'll hear many thoughts. The answer to this question is: it
depends on your goals.

>
> Learning the mechanics of locus, or centering, meditation is the work of

about 5 minutes and involves 2 primary skills: 1) placing your attention on
some object of your choice, and 2) paying attention to what your mind is doing
so you can bring your back to that object when thoughts wander. In the
beginning, the emphasis is on the second skill, but as you develop the habit of
attending to one particular object that need will fade a bit.

>
> If you are simply looking for a sure-fire way to destress, those two

skills will do you just fine, and it won't usually be necessary to connect with
a teacher. This approach is the basis for the popular 'The Relaxation
Response', and is very approachable by just about anyone.

>
> But if you are interested in using those meditative skills for something

more involved, as in spiritual development, a teacher would be very
valuable. There are a number of reasons for this: there are several modes
of meditation, and having an experienced spiritual advisor can help you
understand how, when and why you might employ each mode. Also, without an
advisor/teacher, our spiritual efforts tend to focus on things we already grok,
and avoid the stuff we aren't comfortable with (or haven't even thought to look
into), which usually dampens our progress. A good teacher can make sure
you look in all the metaphorical 'dusty corners' that we could otherwise miss.

>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Vigilate,
>
> Chris Boozell
>

sandeep chatterjee

Hi Katrina, Greetings and welcome. As you were getting dumped with all guidance(s), felt like giving you a respite by not adding to the pile. You know newbies

Message 3 of 15
, May 25, 2010

Hi Katrina,

Greetings and welcome.

As you were getting dumped with all guidance(s), felt like giving you a respite by not adding to the pile.

You know newbies on such Lists is always fresh meat for the salivating "been there-done-that" old geysers.:-)

Thank you for your thoughts, guidance, and opinions. I believe it all makes sense. I suppose the trouble I am dealing with is starting.

-------

Any reason why to move at all away from this start, aka where you are, as you are?

--------

Since I am a researcher and my research involves meditation directly I am exposed to hundreds of studies, books, journal articles, etc., everyday. I know why meditation works, I know how meditation works, and I know what areas of the brain are stimulated through meditation.

Yet I sit down to try it myself and find that I don't even know where to begin.

---------

While sitting down............simply and just....... sit.

When writing a desertion..........simply and just........ write

When reading all the plethora of "How to..." by all the famous and infamous.....

.....simply and just......... read.

The content , nature, shape, manner, hue of the unfolding act...

....whatever that particular act be....

.....is immaterial, irrelevant, insignificant.

The sense of either a total immersion.....in the unfolding act-in-and-as-the-moment....

.....or.....

... the sense of a transcending witnessing.............. of the unfolding act-in-and-as-the-moment.....

....is........that-which-is.

If there is a sense of a strive towards total immersion, or the sense of a strive
towards transcendence...

invite ....the pondering .............just for whom...........is this sense of strive of relevance?

Striving for whatever...the whatever is immaterial...

....for whom is this sense of striving .......which is a thought(maybe a persistent one)....

....who is it .......that took delivery of this thought?

In the ponderance......... in the quietude..............is the quality of meditativeness ( to use a mere term).

So are the multitude of meditation techniques, whether learnt under a famous/infamous teacher.........wrong?

Not all.

They all have a benefit, a relevance............at a particular level.

----------

How can I advocate something I can't even do?

--------

Why the need to advocate?

For whom, is this need to advocate ........of relevance?

Does not the world need a respite for
all these teeming advocates anyways?

:-)

As the infamous UG muttered...........all that the world needs is to be saved from the saviours.

------------

! Hence I went to the Kadampa Center for guidance and was given a variety of opinions; "You should start with a teacher." "You don't need a teacher." "You're over complicating things."

I understand what Chris is saying about simply looking for a way to de-stress

---------

A way to de-stress is a way to de-stress.

And no doubt physical and mental gymnastics are useful for such an objective........ to be striven for.....

.....to replace the stress intrinsic in trying to grasp and hold on to the transient....

...with the stress to reach and hold onto the eternal.

----------

and how a teacher may not be necessary based on what one is looking for. I also understand Bryan's feelings on trial and error because what works for one person may not for another.

Am I trying too hard? Have I complicated something that should not be so complicated?

---------

Meditativeness (using a mere term)............is not conditional,
not dependent.

Not conditional not dependent to and on time, place, state of
mind/emotions/mood......

...... and not a cause-effect phenomenal event of a
physical or mental hoopla.

So walking down the street, hooping it up in a singles bar, watching a
heron plucking a fish from the flowing waters, haggling with a street
vendor, screaming at a surly waiter in a restaurant, deep reading of esoteric books of spirituality, meditation or cooking of Indian Tandoori cuisine......

.....the totality of
immersion ......

....or the totality of witnessing transcendence.

Which means that in-and-as-the-moment.............there is only...

...the walking..........but none to walk;

.......the hooping....but none which hoops;

...the watching........but none to watch;

...the haggling..........but not the haggler;

....the screaming...........but not the screamer;

..the reading........but no reader.

The hilarity is that such is already the defacto case......

......it
is not something which has to be created, constricted, practiced, reached, attained
or can experienced.

What is attainable must be apriori losable.

What is losable...........is not worth much.

So have fun..........sitting in zazen, or doing KapalBhati....or chanting OM.......or feeding the rich...opps I mean the poor.....

....or the cessation of all of these and just a-watcher-on-the-hill...

....witnessing ......

....the stream of sensations, impressions, actions both physical and mental and emotional...........the coalesced bundle of which....

... is popularly known as "Katrina".

Dooo Beeee Doooo Beeee Dooooo.

(A Primal beat to which Shiva dances and got plagiarized by Frank Sinatra)

.

sean tremblay

Anybody out there in meditation land know anything about Bike!! Zen in the art of Motorcycle Maintenance? More like ARRRGH and the art of motorcycle

Message 4 of 15
, May 25, 2010

Anybody out there in meditation land know anything about Bike!!Zen in the art of Motorcycle Maintenance?More like ARRRGH and the art of motorcycle maintenance!2002 Triumph Bonnyrebuilt carb new needle jetsnew plugsnew fuelnew oilnew air filterand still giving me a hassle, ran great for two days then concked out on my way home, this is really messing with my inner peace?open to suggestions?

Thank you for your thoughts, guidance, and opinions. I believe it all makes sense. I suppose the trouble I am dealing with is starting.

-------

Any reason why to move at all away from this start, aka where you are, as you are?

--------

Since I am a researcher and my research involves meditation directly I am exposed to hundreds of studies, books, journal articles, etc., everyday. I know why meditation works, I know how meditation works, and I know what areas of the brain are stimulated through meditation.

....for whom is this sense of striving .......which is a thought(maybe a persistent one)....

....who is it .......that took delivery of this thought?

In the ponderance.. ....... in the quietude.... ......... .is the quality of meditativeness ( to use a mere term).

So are the multitude of meditation techniques, whether learnt under a famous/infamous teacher..... ....wrong?

Not all.

They all have a benefit, a relevance... ......... at a particular level.

----------

How can I advocate something I can't even do?

--------

Why the need to advocate?

For whom, is this need to advocate ........of relevance?

Does not the world need a
respite for
all these teeming advocates anyways?

:-)

As the infamous UG muttered.... .......all that the world needs is to be saved from the saviours.

------------

! Hence I went to the Kadampa Center for guidance and was given a variety of opinions; "You should start with a teacher." "You don't need a teacher." "You're over complicating things."

I understand what Chris is saying about simply looking for a way to de-stress

---------

A way to de-stress is a way to de-stress.

And no doubt physical and mental gymnastics are useful for such an objective... ..... to be striven for.....

.....to replace the stress intrinsic in trying to grasp and hold on to the transient... .

...with the stress to reach and hold onto the eternal.

----------

and how a teacher may not be necessary based on what one is looking for. I also understand Bryan's feelings on trial and error because what works for one person may not for another.

Am I trying too hard? Have I complicated something that should not be so complicated?

---------

Meditativeness (using a mere term)....... .....is not conditional,
not dependent.

Not conditional not dependent to and on time, place, state of
mind/emotions/ mood..... .

...... and not a cause-effect phenomenal event of a
physical or mental hoopla.

So walking down the street, hooping it up in a singles bar, watching a
heron plucking a fish from the flowing waters, haggling with a street
vendor, screaming at a surly waiter in a restaurant, deep reading of esoteric books of spirituality, meditation or cooking of Indian Tandoori cuisine..... .

.....the totality of
immersion ......

....or the totality of witnessing transcendence.

Which means that in-and-as-the- moment... ......... .there is only...

...the walking..... .....but none to walk;

.......the hooping....but none which hoops;

...the watching.... ....but none to watch;

...the haggling.... ......but not the haggler;

....the screaming... ........but not the screamer;

..the reading..... ...but no reader.

The hilarity is that such is already the defacto case......

......it
is not something which has to be created, constricted, practiced, reached, attained
or can experienced.

What is attainable must be apriori losable.

What is losable..... ......is not worth much.

So have fun......... .sitting in zazen, or doing KapalBhati.. ..or chanting OM.......or feeding the rich...opps I mean the poor.....

....or the cessation of all of these and just a-watcher-on- the-hill. ..

(A Primal beat to which Shiva dances and got plagiarized by Frank Sinatra)

.

WestWindWood

You need to do a little basic trouble shooting. See if you have a spark. Take an old spark plug, put the plug wire on it, tie the plug to metal, give the

Message 5 of 15
, May 26, 2010

You need to do a little basic trouble shooting. See if you have a spark. Take an old spark plug, put the plug wire on it, tie the plug to metal, give the engine a spin and see if you get a spark across the electrode. Be careful if a bike has a magneto, as the spark can be strong enough to be fatal. Battery powered spark just makes you jump real good. I no spark, check points for pitting. Pitting is usually caused by poor electrical connections, usually where the points are. Also check for oil foiling. Does the plug have a black oily deposit on the electrode? If there is a good spark, then check for water in the gas, fuel flow from the tank, plugged float valve if there is no fuel filter on the bike. Smell at the exhaust and see if there is the odor of gasoline. There is also the
possibility of a seized piston from lack of oil. That can be expensive because of bearing damage and weakened pistons for excess heat with sudden breakage. About meditation, maybe you can do that while you push your bike to the nearest service station.

Anybody out there in meditation land know anything about Bike!!Zen in the art of Motorcycle Maintenance?More like ARRRGH and the art of motorcycle maintenance!2002 Triumph Bonnyrebuilt carb new needle jetsnew plugsnew fuelnew oilnew air filterand still giving me a hassle, ran great for two days then concked out on my way home, this is really messing with my inner peace?open to suggestions?

Thank you for your thoughts, guidance, and opinions. I believe it all makes sense. I suppose the trouble I am dealing with is starting.

-------

Any reason why to move at all away from this start, aka where you are, as you are?

--------

Since I am a researcher and my research involves meditation directly I am exposed to hundreds of studies, books, journal articles, etc., everyday. I know why meditation works, I know how meditation works, and I know what areas of the brain are stimulated through meditation.

....for whom is this sense of striving .......which is a thought(maybe a persistent one)....

....who is it .......that took delivery of this thought?

In the ponderance.. ....... in the quietude.... ......... .is the quality of meditativeness ( to use a mere term).

So are the multitude of meditation techniques, whether learnt under a famous/infamous teacher..... ....wrong?

Not all.

They all have a benefit, a relevance... ......... at a particular level.

----------

How can I advocate something I can't even do?

--------

Why the need to advocate?

For whom, is this need to advocate ........of relevance?

Does not the world need a respite for all these teeming advocates anyways?

:-)

As the infamous UG muttered.... .......all that the world needs is to be saved from the saviours.

------------

! Hence I went to the Kadampa Center for guidance and was given a variety of opinions; "You should start with a teacher." "You don't need a teacher." "You're over complicating things."

I understand what Chris is saying about simply looking for a way to de-stress

---------

A way to de-stress is a way to de-stress.

And no doubt physical and mental gymnastics are useful for such an objective... ..... to be striven for.....

.....to replace the stress intrinsic in trying to grasp and hold on to the transient... .

...with the stress to reach and hold onto the eternal.

----------

and how a teacher may not be necessary based on what one is looking for. I also understand Bryan's feelings on trial and error because what works for one person may not for another.

Am I trying too hard? Have I complicated something that should not be so complicated?

---------

Meditativeness (using a mere term)....... .....is not conditional, not dependent.

Not conditional not dependent to and on time, place, state of mind/emotions/ mood..... .

...... and not a cause-effect phenomenal event of a physical or mental hoopla.

So walking down the street, hooping it up in a singles bar, watching a heron plucking a fish from the flowing waters, haggling with a street vendor, screaming at a surly waiter in a restaurant, deep reading of esoteric books of spirituality, meditation or cooking of Indian Tandoori cuisine..... .

.....the totality of immersion ......

....or the totality of witnessing transcendence.

Which means that in-and-as-the- moment... ......... .there is only...

...the walking..... .....but none to walk;

.......the hooping....but none which hoops;

...the watching.... ....but none to watch;

...the haggling.... ......but not the haggler;

....the screaming... ........but not the screamer;

..the reading..... ...but no reader.

The hilarity is that such is already the defacto case......

......it is not something which has to be created, constricted, practiced, reached, attained or can experienced.

What is attainable must be apriori losable.

What is losable..... ......is not worth much.

So have fun......... .sitting in zazen, or doing KapalBhati.. ..or chanting OM.......or feeding the rich...opps I mean the poor.....

....or the cessation of all of these and just a-watcher-on- the-hill. ..

You need to do a little basic trouble shooting. See if you have a spark. Take an old spark plug, put the plug wire on it, tie the plug to metal, give the engine a spin and see if you get a spark across the electrode. Be careful if a bike has a magneto, as the spark can be strong enough to be fatal. Battery powered spark just makes you jump real good. I no spark, check points for pitting. Pitting is usually caused by poor electrical connections, usually where the points are. Also check for oil foiling. Does the plug have a black oily deposit on the electrode? If there is a good spark, then check for water in the
gas, fuel flow from the tank, plugged float valve if there is no fuel filter on the bike. Smell at the exhaust and see if there is the odor of gasoline. There is also the
possibility of a seized piston from lack of oil. That can be expensive because of bearing damage and weakened pistons for excess heat with sudden breakage. About meditation, maybe you can do that while you push your bike to the nearest service station.

Anybody out there in meditation land know anything about Bike!!Zen in the art of Motorcycle Maintenance?More like ARRRGH and the art of motorcycle maintenance!2002 Triumph Bonnyrebuilt carb new needle jetsnew plugsnew fuelnew oilnew air filterand still giving me a hassle, ran great for two days then concked out on my way home, this is really messing with my inner peace?open to suggestions?

Thank you for your thoughts, guidance, and opinions. I believe it all makes sense. I suppose the trouble I am dealing with is starting.

-------

Any reason why to move at all away from this start, aka where you are, as you are?

--------

Since I am a researcher and my research involves meditation directly I am exposed to hundreds of studies, books, journal articles, etc., everyday. I know why meditation works, I know how meditation works, and I know what areas of the brain are stimulated through meditation.

....for whom is this sense of striving .......which is a thought(maybe a persistent one)....

....who is it .......that took delivery of this thought?

In the ponderance.. ....... in the quietude.... ......... .is the quality of meditativeness ( to use a mere term).

So are the multitude of meditation techniques, whether learnt under a famous/infamous teacher..... ....wrong?

Not all.

They all have a benefit, a relevance... ......... at a particular level.

----------

How can I advocate something I can't even do?

--------

Why the need to advocate?

For whom, is this need to advocate ........of relevance?

Does not the world need a respite for all these teeming advocates anyways?

:-)

As the infamous UG muttered.... .......all that the world needs is to be saved from the saviours.

------------

! Hence I went to the Kadampa Center for guidance and was given a variety of opinions; "You should start with a teacher." "You don't need a teacher." "You're over complicating things."

I understand what Chris is saying about simply looking for a way to de-stress

---------

A way to de-stress is a way to de-stress.

And no doubt physical and mental gymnastics are useful for such an objective... ..... to be striven for.....

.....to replace the stress intrinsic in trying to grasp and hold on to the transient... .

...with the stress to reach and hold onto the eternal.

----------

and how a teacher may not be necessary based on what one is looking for. I also understand Bryan's feelings on trial and error because what works for one person may not for another.

Am I trying too hard? Have I complicated something that should not be so complicated?

---------

Meditativeness (using a mere term)....... .....is not conditional, not dependent.

Not conditional not dependent to and on time, place, state of mind/emotions/ mood..... .

...... and not a cause-effect phenomenal event of a physical or mental hoopla.

So walking down the street, hooping it up in a singles bar, watching a heron plucking a fish from the flowing waters, haggling with a street vendor, screaming at a surly waiter in a restaurant, deep reading of esoteric books of spirituality, meditation or cooking of Indian Tandoori cuisine..... .

.....the totality of immersion ......

....or the totality of witnessing transcendence.

Which means that in-and-as-the- moment... ......... .there is only...

...the walking..... .....but none to walk;

.......the hooping....but none which hoops;

...the watching.... ....but none to watch;

...the haggling.... ......but not the haggler;

....the screaming... ........but not the screamer;

..the reading..... ...but no reader.

The hilarity is that such is already the defacto case......

......it is not something which has to be created, constricted, practiced, reached, attained or can experienced.

What is attainable must be apriori losable.

What is losable..... ......is not worth much.

So have fun......... .sitting in zazen, or doing KapalBhati.. ..or chanting OM.......or feeding the rich...opps I mean the poor.....

....or the cessation of all of these and just a-watcher-on- the-hill. ..

(A Primal beat to which Shiva dances and got plagiarized by Frank Sinatra)

.

WestWindWood

When first starting meditation, the problem is not knowing what is going on with your mind. If you have access to an EEG, that can tell you; however, there are

Message 7 of 15
, May 26, 2010

When first starting meditation, the problem is not knowing what is going on with your mind. If you have access to an EEG, that can tell you; however, there are other simpler ways to know what your mind is doing. Of course the mind is incredibly complex, but for the purpose of learning meditation, lets put enlightenment aside for the moment and first divide the mind into an intellectual part and emotional part. The first step is finding something to concentrate on that the intellectual mind cannot do anything with so that the intellectual mind becomes quiescent. The first time this happened to me was at a Native American sun dance listening to the chanting and drumming. It was a very powerful experience, but I did not know what was happening so I lost a chance to explore further. I thought it was
somewhat like a hypnosis experience I had previously, but without the direct experience of another’s direct input of suggestion. Using an EEG, it would be interesting to check on the differences. I suppose you could try hypnosis with a post hypnotic suggestion that you can attain self-hypnosis by some signal of your own. The second time experiencing quiescence was a few years later listening to the wind in the oak trees at my grandmother’s home. This time I knew what I was looking for. I recognized the experience of my intellectual mind not being there. This can be checked by trying to add numbers in your head (no need for an EEG machine), and if you cannot, then the intellectual mind is not there. Quiescence of the intellect can be obtained by a number of methods like watching the breath, a mantra, chanting in a group, watching a clock pendulum, a candle… take your choice of anything that takes your fancy and experiment. Without the intellect
jumping around with various analyses, you will be left with your feelings. For instance, if you have noticed that you are uneasy, anxious, but cannot discern the cause; now offer that feeling up and you will be surprised at the cause, what ever it is, but will recognize the response back from your emotional part of the mind as the true source. It will just feel right. However, you can do the exercise again a month later and find you still have exactly the same issue, you just forgot about it. This will be frustrating, like how can I resolve the issue? It’s beyond you. The next step is enlightenment. There are two approaches. The first is to offer up the problem in a devotional way, the will of the Universe be done, let go of your cravings and accept what comes. The second is making the mind blank of the emotional stuff that is welling up, a willingness to accept whatever is and to work towards your betterment. A point to remember is that if the
intellect is not involved, the answer will always be consistent and also that the answer will not harm others. Enlightenment can be elusive, but keep trying. Once you discover enlightenment you can work out your problems. This takes maybe two decades, but you will be calmer and happier; and it will be all you can do for each day, and not too much unless you choose a forceful yoga like Kundalini.

Thank you for your thoughts, guidance, and opinions. I believe it all makes sense. I suppose the trouble I am dealing with is starting. Since I am a researcher and my research involves meditation directly I am exposed to hundreds of studies, books, journal articles, etc., everyday. I know why meditation works, I know how meditation works, and I know what areas of the brain are stimulated through meditation. I've read several Dalai Lama books, Thich Nhat Hanh, Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche, and other respected teachers. I've written a 150 page dissertation on the subject…

Yet I sit down to try it myself and find that I don't even know where to begin. How can I advocate something I can't even do?! Hence I went to the Kadampa Center for guidance and was given a variety of opinions; "You should start with a teacher." "You don't need a teacher." "You're over complicating things."

I understand what Chris is saying about
simply looking for a way to de-stress and how a teacher may not be necessary based on what one is looking for. I also understand Bryan's feelings on trial and error because what works for one person may not for another.

Am I trying too hard? Have I complicated something that should not be so complicated?

Katrina

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Boozell <cjb@...> wrote:>> Hi Katrina,> > "My question is if there is a proper way to begin? Can someone with no experience truly grasp the concepts by themselves? Does the kind of technique matter here?" This can be a provocative question and I'm sure you'll hear many thoughts. The answer to this question is: it
depends on your goals. > > Learning the mechanics of locus, or centering, meditation is the work of about 5 minutes and involves 2 primary skills: 1) placing your attention on some object of your choice, and 2) paying attention to what your mind is doing so you can bring your back to that object when thoughts wander. In the beginning, the emphasis is on the second skill, but as you develop the habit of attending to one particular object that need will fade a bit. > > If you are simply looking for a sure-fire way to destress, those two skills will do you just fine, and it won't usually be necessary to connect with a teacher. This approach is the basis for the popular 'The Relaxation Response', and is very approachable by just about anyone. > > But if you are interested in using those meditative skills for something more involved, as in spiritual development, a
teacher would be very valuable. There are a number of reasons for this: there are several modes of meditation, and having an experienced spiritual advisor can help you understand how, when and why you might employ each mode. Also, without an advisor/teacher, our spiritual efforts tend to focus on things we already grok, and avoid the stuff we aren't comfortable with (or haven't even thought to look into), which usually dampens our progress. A good teacher can make sure you look in all the metaphorical 'dusty corners' that we could otherwise miss.> > Hope this helps!> > Vigilate,> > Chris Boozell>

Katrina

All, I want to thank you for all your words of guidance. It has taken me a while to sort through them all and I will most likely read them over several times.

Message 8 of 15
, May 28, 2010

All,

I want to thank you for all your words of guidance. It has taken me a while to sort through them all and I will most likely read them over several times.

Aideen,

I liked your response in the sense that I agree there is a certain level of anxiety when you know perhaps "too much"? and focus purely on the technique and not the journey.

I wonder if the best route is to seek a teacher with an open mind and see if that works. If not, perhaps at a later time. Or perhaps the real answer is the truncated form of that...just keep an open mind!

Thanks to all,

Katrina

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Aideen Mckenna" <aideenmck@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Katrina,
>
>
>
> In short, yes. That's MHO. Listen to Nike & Just Do It. I meditated for
> some time & then discovered all the books & articles etc. I may well have
> read hundreds. I don't really regret having done that, but I noticed that
> the more I read about meditation, the less I meditated. I became anxious.
> Should I be doing this rather than that? Did I leave this until too late
> in life? It was like quitting smoking to stop the compulsive reading, which
> had become a way to avoid the cushion & the concomitant anxiety & doubt.
> Ridiculous, because I like to meditate; I'm happier & more peaceful when I
> practice regularly.
>
> As for the teacher question, I think you don't need a teacher at first, but
> later in your practice, you may find that you do. When/if you need one,
> you'll meet one.
>
>
>
> Aideen
>
> _____
>
> From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Katrina
> Sent: May-25-10 5:14 AM
> To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Do You Need Formal Teaching To
> Meditate?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> All,
>
> Thank you for your thoughts, guidance, and opinions. I believe it all makes
> sense. I suppose the trouble I am dealing with is starting. Since I am a
> researcher and my research involves meditation directly I am exposed to
> hundreds of studies, books, journal articles, etc., everyday. I know why
> meditation works, I know how meditation works, and I know what areas of the
> brain are stimulated through meditation. I've read several Dalai Lama books,
> Thich Nhat Hanh, Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche, and other respected teachers. I've
> written a 150 page dissertation on the subject.
>
> Yet I sit down to try it myself and find that I don't even know where to
> begin. How can I advocate something I can't even do?! Hence I went to the
> Kadampa Center for guidance and was given a variety of opinions; "You should
> start with a teacher." "You don't need a teacher." "You're over complicating
> things."
>
> I understand what Chris is saying about simply looking for a way to
> de-stress and how a teacher may not be necessary based on what one is
> looking for. I also understand Bryan's feelings on trial and error because
> what works for one person may not for another.
>
> Am I trying too hard? Have I complicated something that should not be so
> complicated?
>
> Katrina
>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com> , Christopher Boozell
> <cjb@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Katrina,
> >
> > "My question is if there is a proper way to begin? Can someone with no
> experience truly grasp the concepts by themselves? Does the kind of
> technique matter here?" This can be a provocative question and I'm sure
> you'll hear many thoughts. The answer to this question is: it depends on
> your goals.
> >
> > Learning the mechanics of locus, or centering, meditation is the work of
> about 5 minutes and involves 2 primary skills: 1) placing your attention on
> some object of your choice, and 2) paying attention to what your mind is
> doing so you can bring your back to that object when thoughts wander. In
> the beginning, the emphasis is on the second skill, but as you develop the
> habit of attending to one particular object that need will fade a bit.
> >
> > If you are simply looking for a sure-fire way to destress, those two
> skills will do you just fine, and it won't usually be necessary to connect
> with a teacher. This approach is the basis for the popular 'The Relaxation
> Response', and is very approachable by just about anyone.
> >
> > But if you are interested in using those meditative skills for something
> more involved, as in spiritual development, a teacher would be very
> valuable. There are a number of reasons for this: there are several modes
> of meditation, and having an experienced spiritual advisor can help you
> understand how, when and why you might employ each mode. Also, without an
> advisor/teacher, our spiritual efforts tend to focus on things we already
> grok, and avoid the stuff we aren't comfortable with (or haven't even
> thought to look into), which usually dampens our progress. A good teacher
> can make sure you look in all the metaphorical 'dusty corners' that we could
> otherwise miss.
> >
> > Hope this helps!
> >
> > Vigilate,
> >
> > Chris Boozell
> >
>

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