Hey Wd, I like the “classics” too, but I do have a few “non-traditional” mugs in my collection.
I never have appreciated the tiki bob mug but it most definitely tiki. I have seen many vintage primitive masks that may have inspired the creation of this much sought after mug. Plus it has a pretty solid pedigree. I often wonder if it had been created recently would it still be desirable or would it it bemuse us tikiphreaks?
Just thinking-mahalo for indulging me
Cheers

On 2013-10-18 10:52, nui 'umi 'umi wrote:Hey Wd, I like the “classics” too, but I do have a few “non-traditional” mugs in my collection.
I never have appreciated the tiki bob mug but it most definitely tiki. I have seen many vintage primitive masks that may have inspired the creation of this much sought after mug. Plus it has a pretty solid pedigree. I often wonder if it had been created recently would it still be desirable or would it it bemuse us tikiphreaks?
Just thinking-mahalo for indulging me
Cheers

A quite legitimate point: Bob has been more or less "grandfathered in" by virtue of his historicity, while sharing seemingly little in common with traditional Polynesian iconography. I'm not saying there aren't gray areas: those are everywhere, and can actually work to improve the whole. I do think Tiki can be blended with other design concepts, but the creativity has to match the inspiration, and that's what's lacking in the mugs I cited, IMHO.

I would be ok with the addition of all these other elements to "tiki", if it were not for the fact that in today's scene, they now occupy a position of primacy, pushing far more authentic items (be it artifacts, drinks, decor or music) to the "pay no mind" list.

Tiki farm is capable of awesome work. I have a few of the original mugs. Good stuff. I admit, (though I have a lot of friends here that would disagree with me), that I really don't care for the addition of low-brow, punk, rock, kar kulture, or any of that other stuff.

For me, I always found the original idea and concept of tiki, as it was in the 50/60/70s to be cool enough without expanding or watering down the concept to make it more acceptable to the masses.

I know this has nothing to do with mugs, but if you are going to expand on tiki or try to modernize it, I think it's better to go the way of the new Tonga Hut in palm springs, or this new "Ventiki" place. I am not against anything new, but i prefer when things are "In the spirit of" the original concept of tiki.

And this is real important....I find a lot of this supposed tiki stuff (be it mugs or music) to be first rate, very creative, and made with obvious passion and care....I just find the relation to tiki is far too nebulous.

really, are people that bored with the original concept of tiki? Isn't that why the orginal tiki died in the first place?

in 1964, times were a changing...youth culture took over, and that youth culture deeply resented the themes of the Eisenhower and Nixon generation. Rock was suddenly cool and hip, where it was Jazz before. Tiki bars and restaurants became something your nerdy parents were into.

There is even a scene in "Jailhouse rock" where Elvis gets all flustered when someone at a hip hollywood party asks his opinion on Dave brubeck...classic, and really shows the divide.

You may disagree with me. In fact, seems like most of tiki central has always disagreed with me..but I love the original concept of tiki. I don;t need skull mugs or hot rods...(though I actually like both)

You may disagree with me. In fact, seems like most of tiki central has always disagreed with me..but I love the original concept of tiki.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, Lucas. I'm not throwing off on the relative virtues of the mugs for what they are, nor the quality of the product. But as you say more eloquently, this stuff will be identified by the less-exacting as "tiki", and those who know better have an obligation to make the distinctions plain. I think it's marvelous that we live in a country where anyone with an inclination can manufacture a hot rod mug, or hell, a Rat Fink toilet if they're so moved to. But a Rat Fink vessel ain't tiki, and if words don't matter then nothing else does either.

Your Elvis/Brubeck analogy is perfect, and that purist mindset has beset the arts since they were invented. And new art has almost always come about as a result of those few who could imagine Elvis with Brubeck...but the high standards of the purists have to prevail to some degree in order to preserve the integrity of the hybrid's original inspiration. Otherwise, all we ever end up with is brunswick stew.

It may be that every word ever logged on Tiki Central has been one concentrated effort to crystallize the essence of Tiki, and to differentiate it from non-tiki. But if that definition can't ever really be nailed down verbally, and we're left with only a relative compare-and-contrast process of expressing an inexpressible ideal, then here's my stab at it (by way of Tiki Farm and Notch)...

Which of the above is the real Tiki, and which the imposter?

As far as the consumer is concerned, to each his own. As far as the creator/manufacturer is concerned, which do you want to be identified with?

London based CheekyTiki has Bespoke Barware which produces their non-tiki related barware.
Do you think Tiki Farm should do the same thing?
Tiki Farm is asked by many different companies to design mugs that aren't tiki at all. They are a small business and they have been able to grow their business in what has been a very crappy economic climate and in a state that isn't easy to do business in. I would say that their business model has worked well for them.

On 2013-10-18 11:46, tikilongbeach wrote:London based CheekyTiki has Bespoke Barware which produces their non-tiki related barware.
Do you think Tiki Farm should do the same thing?
Tiki Farm is asked by many different companies to design mugs that aren't tiki at all. They are a small business and they have been able to grow their business in what has been a very crappy economic climate and in a state that isn't easy to do business in. I would say that their business model has worked well for them.

That being said, I prefer the traditional style.

Business is business, but art is art. Just because you helped establish tiki mugs as a resuscitated collectible, that doesn't give you the authority to twist the defining concepts of Tiki. I'm all for anyone making money doing what they do best and love, but don't sell me shit and tell me it's chocolate.

I think there is really too much emphasis on irony and kitsche in this scene. The original purveyors of tiki did not see things the same way most tiki-ites do today. The fact that the stuff was in-authentic had less to do with irony and more to do with being naive.In those days, Martin Denny and les baxter really thought they were making world music....and those tiki restaurants serving cantonese style american food really probably thought they were serving authentic island cuisine....I mean, serve POI? Most people can't stand it!

Same goes for the music these days. Turns out, most people actually dislike hawaiian music. Also, less people probably really like Les baxter then would admit. I for one, listen to the albums over and over, but for many others, the albums are only used for wall decorations.

I find the same disconnect with the neo lounge/swing scene of the 90s. I was watching "swingers" the other day, and was reflecting on those scenes with Big Bad Voodoo daddy playing "swing" music in the back ground....good band, don't get me wrong, but they rely heavily on the crime jazz hype, and the imagery of swing, all the while ignoring what made real big band music of the 40's great.

I get that tiki farm makes stuff for other businesses other then tiki bars...and I love what they do. I looked at some of those mugs that WD posted, and think they are really creative and well done...heck, I sure could not design and make one....but are they tiki?

10-15 years from now, when the average lay person thinks about tiki mugs, it will be skulls and hot rod figurines and other low-brow stuff that will be the main representation.

Can't really blame tiki farm for any of this. Production follows demand. If more people were into real, pure tiki, they would focus on that. I can't really blame them, since they are providing what people want.

Can't really blame tiki farm for any of this. Production follows demand. If more people were into real, pure tiki, they would focus on that. I can't really blame them, since they are providing what people want.

Oh, but I do blame them. By taking ownership of the "Tiki" in Tiki Farm, they also inherit the responsibility not only of truthfully and faithfully delivering on what the word entails, but being ambassadors of quality. If you want to (or have to) produce this type of product...

...in order to support the real thing...

...then be up-front and precise in your descriptions: don't deliberately confuse the unenlightened public (or tiki community, for all that). But the fact that Tiki Farm HAS occasionally delivered the real deal over the course of its existence means that they know the difference. So why this streak of product that progressively puts a new low in lowbrow? Since you know the difference between the authentic and the inauthentic, why do you consistently deliver mostly the inauthentic?

My opinion of the buying public isn't so cynical that (given the choice) they can't tell the difference between high and low-quality merch, but even if that's true, I still have the responsibility to inform their taste as an ambassador of Tiki culture.

As a staunch Tiki traditionalist & purest myself (how many people have I pissed off by pointing out inaccuracies)
some very good points made here, but to be fair to "Tikifarm" you really have to represent their whole body of work
most of which is based in more traditional Tiki iconography, but I also agree that unrelated influences
like "Hillbilly" etc. have no place in the Tiki movement, I myself have been rather disgusted with the recent
attempts to merge the two disparate genres.

It goes back to what each person believes "Tiki" is... Is it the first man?, is it a wood polynesian statue?, is it the decoration style from 1950-1970?, is a hawaiian luau theme?, is a bar with bamboo and some seashells in florida?

The answer is Yes, depending on who you ask and what there personal definition is.

Seems like Tiki Farm is providing Tiki for all those opinions and tastes. Which is smart business.

While tiki central and a few people may have Decreed what Tiki is ..... there are people who disagree, don't understand, or don't care.

I'm sure the sales of the mugs the "purists" don't like, help keep the business going to produce the ones they do like.

This is an interesting to mix "What you think tiki is" with "What you think a for profit business should be doing". I operate a group of restaurants, and guests, with the best of intentions, often tell us what we ought to do. Their perspective, while very important to us, comes from a different place. (And yes, sometimes the customer IS right.)

It goes back to what each person believes "Tiki" is... Is it the first man?, is it a wood polynesian statue?, is it the decoration style from 1950-1970?, is a hawaiian luau theme?, is a bar with bamboo and some seashells in florida?
The answer is Yes, depending on who you ask and what there personal definition is.

But someone's personal definition may be so far removed from fact that it doesn't register as a vote. I dare say no one would opine that true Tiki has bumbling British detectives with magnifying glasses peeking out its ass.

Quote:

Seems like Tiki Farm is providing Tiki for all those opinions and tastes. Which is smart business.
While tiki central and a few people may have Decreed what Tiki is ..... there are people who disagree, don't understand, or don't care.
I'm sure the sales of the mugs the "purists" don't like, help keep the business going to produce the ones they do like.

But as I alluded to above, smart business doesn't get to change the definitions of the art they may or may not be producing. The people "who disagree, don't understand, or don't care" also don't get to redefine the meaning & history of it, any more than the businesses pimping Tiki for all it's worth. And that's literally what's happening, if we're to be brutally honest here: the forced prostitution of a legitimate popular culture meme in the cause of generating revenue. When you resort to cramming porta-potties and cartoon celebrities into your notions of Polynesia, who is it you think you're fooling the most? If you cheapen the heart & soul of your chosen art form by hiring it out to the supposedly highest bidder, are you still worthy of the mantle?

As a staunch Tiki traditionalist & purest myself (how many people have I pissed off by pointing out inaccuracies)
some very good points made here, but to be fair to "Tikifarm" you really have to represent their whole body of work
most of which is based in more traditional Tiki iconography, but I also agree that unrelated influences
like "Hillbilly" etc. have no place in the Tiki movement, I myself have been rather disgusted with the recent
attempts to merge the two disparate genres.

[ This Message was edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2013-10-19 04:36 ]

And that's what I have always liked about you, ATP....you can "agree to disagree" without accusing someone of being "Negative" or being a "sociopath" just because that person writes something others might disagree with. I think people need to chill on that attitude, you know? It's OK to disagree with things, to critique things, to offer dissenting opinions on things....this is supposed to be a talk forum, after all.