I support this thread, I'm too tired just waking up for work to add to it, but I agree with everything you've listed. SWTOR may have many faults, but damn I still love the game.

This. I love this game, despite its faults. It's honestly some of the most fun I've had in an MMO (the storyline, being able to develop your character etc). I left briefly for GW2, which I'd anticipated for years, but now that I've had my share of it (don't get me wrong, I still love GW2), I'm resubscribing. I love both games. <3

"Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere." --Dr. Carl Sagan

after playing swtor for a while and getting 2 50s in the game, ive come to the conclusion that swtor woulda been alot more successful as a single player RPG then as a MMO, based purely on the merits, that it has no end game or its end game was wayyy to easy, that it was done in > a month...(while i dont have any personal experience on the matter, this is what ive heard from friends, i was a pvper in swtor)....so my 2c

Except single player wouldn't have had the pvp which is actually pretty good, and also wouldn't have had the FP and OPs which are also pretty good. People stating it plays more SP than MMO didn't actually try to play it like an MMO. You can level in WoW like a single player game and people don't suggest that it would be better as a single player game. Makes me wonder if other people saying it would be a better SP game have actually played it.

after playing swtor for a while and getting 2 50s in the game, ive come to the conclusion that swtor woulda been alot more successful as a single player RPG then as a MMO, based purely on the merits, that it has no end game or its end game was wayyy to easy, that it was done in > a month...(while i dont have any personal experience on the matter, this is what ive heard from friends, i was a pvper in swtor)....so my 2c

This is possible if you just stick with one of the more successful guilds on your server, try staying with the guild you start the game and it looks much different. People shouldn't judge the content according to "Progress-guilds" as they will clear stuff always much faster than anyon else. In EQ2 some people did clear content only 1 year after us but as it was our intend to kill everything as fast as possible it doesn't apply to majority playing the game.

This is no way criticism towards Star Wars on my part - I love it - but it's the "science" part I'd leave out of the definition. As far as I know practically nothing in the Star Wars universe is rooted in actual science. Except for the droids maybe.

If I had to come up with a genre, I'd call it "future fiction" or "future fantasy".

But yeah, the game is great. It's a real shame it had so many issues at launch that they practically alienated half the player base. Some say it's a better single-player RPG than an MMO, but leveling up with a friend of mine was one of the best co-op gaming experiences I've had. Really looking forward to doing the same on Sith side.

Regardless, people who claim content is cleared to fast... try to enjoy the game, I've been doing HM's for a while now but still haven't gotten to Ops with the guild because I'm playing with casual players, and I like it. I'm in a great guild with hilarious people all motivated to learn the ways of PvE. We just do it step by step while Rp'ing asside from that. I'm telling you, this adventure is worth every step in the process.

But yeah, the game is great. It's a real shame it had so many issues at launch that they practically alienated half the player base. Some say it's a better single-player RPG than an MMO, but leveling up with a friend of mine was one of the best co-op gaming experiences I've had. Really looking forward to doing the same on Sith side.

I agree partially.. the same you read about people complaining in SWTOR, you can hear in GW2. People which powergame through the game and complain there is nothing left to do other than grinding. First it was the lack of endgame, then PvP, then UI, then Groupfinder, tbc. Constructive arguing is more than welcome but the kind of rant going on since the very beginning of this game is astonishing and while I agree with frustration now at this point, there was no way to open pandorras box after 1-2 weeks the game was out.

servers are merged, i am just gonna wait till it gets f2p then ill play the all the classes and see the stories.

This. I really want to play through BioWare RPG part of the game, but I'm absolutely disinterested in MMO component. I feel like I've already paid enough for the single player portion with box purchase.

I agree partially.. the same you read about people complaining in SWTOR, you can hear in GW2. People which powergame through the game and complain there is nothing left to do other than grinding. First it was the lack of endgame, then PvP, then UI, then Groupfinder, tbc. Constructive arguing is more than welcome but the kind of rant going on since the very beginning of this game is astonishing and while I agree with frustration now at this point, there was no way to open pandorras box after 1-2 weeks the game was out.

Yeah MMO launches never go without complaints, but the drop in SWTOR subs after the initial rush was pretty dramatic. My personal experience was hindered by the infamous ability lag and graphical performance issues. When I came back last summer, it's like I wasn't even playing the same game anymore. Well optimized engine - no performance issues despite maxing out the graphics settings - ability lag gone, amazing UI customization. I couldn't help but think "if only they'd released in this state.."

Anyway I have no desire to derail this into another MMO wars thread, I'm simply sad that people couldn't see the huge potential in the game because of maybe a little hasty launch. Because now it really is quite a polished and great game.

Yeah MMO launches never go without complaints, but the drop in SWTOR subs after the initial rush was pretty dramatic. My personal experience was hindered by the infamous ability lag and graphical performance issues. When I came back last summer, it's like I wasn't even playing the same game anymore. Well optimized engine - no performance issues despite maxing out the graphics settings - ability lag gone, amazing UI customization. I couldn't help but think "if only they'd released in this state.."

Anyway I have no desire to derail this into another MMO wars thread, I'm simply sad that people couldn't see the huge potential in the game because of maybe a little hasty launch. Because now it really is quite a polished and great game.

It may have potential and it may not have potential. Personally, I quit because I questioned the potential of Bioware to follow through with any of their promises. So far their track record has been less than stellar. Also, I question the potential of the Hero engine that I see nothing but bad things about. I played from Day 1 early access until the end of July. I gave the game more than a fair shake. I got tired of the lack of dev communication, lack of bug fixes (seriously, 9 month old bugs?), and lack of content.

after playing swtor for a while and getting 2 50s in the game, ive come to the conclusion that swtor woulda been alot more successful as a single player RPG then as a MMO, based purely on the merits, that it has no end game or its end game was wayyy to easy, that it was done in > a month...(while i dont have any personal experience on the matter, this is what ive heard from friends, i was a pvper in swtor)....so my 2c

so, by those merits, WoW should be a single player RPG, because it has no end game, or the end game it has is WAY too easy, and is usually done in < a month ... then you wait 3->6->9 months for anything new.

yep, I'm using the elephant to prove the point, it is keeping up with other games, EA pushed it out before it was ready, so it had/has issues still ... but it has just as much end game as any current tier of WoW ... unless, of course, you are comparing to Rift, who is the best producer of the genre right now, even if I don't prefer to play it ... Trion is #1 for timely quality content production and consumer respect.

There is nothing wrong with you personally feeling you had nothing to do. Or you weren't engaged enough to continue to pvp (what you enjoyed, not related to 'end game' in any way though, WoW = new season, new gear, not new bgs/arenas, no new 'pvp end game' either).

For me, after raiding, and dealing with my wife raiding at a much more 'hardcore' level ... we both have returned to valuing the Roleplaying experience. Which means, leveling/questing together, building up our profs, companion relationships, PLAYING WITH OTHERS (if this was KotOR 3, we wouldn't be able to do that). Burnout from H DS in particular, most bosses being super easy for her raid group only about a month into it (spine hang ups a little bit longer) ... left her feeling bored while raiding, and empty. I realized that a while back ... and brought her to the 'light side' so to speak.

What I see an MMO should be is ... engaging leveling experience with the ability to play with several friends and family in a persistent world. It isn't a race to 'end game' ... if so, then why even have the leveling at all? 'End-gamers' could have a game that has NO LEVEL at all. Just log in, raid, log off. In fact, THAT should be a separate model, for these people that could care less about leveling and lore, to play, and a logical alternative ... because if they don't waste time on quests, cutscenes, any VOs, all the gear and mechanics behind leveling, professions, etc. And just developed raid areas, and raid bosses/content ... they could release it much, much faster ... but I bet it wouldn't work very well long term, people wouldn't want to pay a monthly fee just to hump each other in a game lobby (like Phantasy Star), with no other story, or experience to the game.

So as much as I can admit, this product isn't 'perfect' ... neither is any of the competition, never will be (though Trion, gets it damn close).

We came back, we like it when we left, but our raid groups demanded more from us for a while, and we just stayed in that game with alts and making gold. Now we LOVE it even more (even with its current imperfections), because we are enjoy the entire game, not just a race to 'max level', then a race to gear up, then a race to finish all the hardest content as fast as we can ... just so we can sit in the fleet and bitch there is nothing to do, ignoring the fact we would've ignored 90% of the game.

We even re-rolled on a new server, left our credits and 50s behind ... just to get a fresh, pure feel for the game as it currently is. There are some issues, but nothing game breaking for us. It is TONS of fun ... and it irks both of us reading about these people who said they enjoyed questing, want to finish story lines or experience the other stories, but can't be arsed to pay $15/month to do it, and will wait for it to go free to play ... it is just as disgusting to us as the people we see parking on the side of the road outside a state park, to avoid paying $30 for a year sticker ... but they sure as hell use the grills, bathrooms, enjoy the scenery, the trash cans, the well kept pathways, the protected wildlife and land ... but a penny a day is too much to 'donate' to the cause, while they spend $10 in gas to drive there in their SUVs.

If you don't enjoy it, you have no desire to see the content, then by all means, don't waste your money, on anything you feel that way about. But if you WANT it, but are just a cheap bastard, you have no sympathy from my household, and I'd rather you NOT roll on my server, when it does go F2P ... because you are doing nothing to support something you enjoy. OR, maybe they should put big advertisements all over your screen if you are F2P. Loading screen = advertisements, period. An advert window in your screen. So at least, while you are ENJOYING the game, they can get some funds to continue to do stuff, and maybe hire some people back.

I should go eat a cookie or something ... everyone wants everything for free, wants it to be the best thing ever ... but fails to see we aren't in a Star Trek money-less society, and everything costs money, and 50 cents a day is not bad of you get at least 4 hours of play in a month, because a movie is more expensive than that.

I agree with you, I would never have as many characters at high level with others only waiting to come there in any other game. I can have 8 completely different stories in SWTOR and fill up the rest with PvP, flashpoints and stuff because the planetary quests got pretty boring pretty fast for me. Heck I can even just do some brainless railshooter if I feel like and I get xp for it.

I recently came back to swtor, stoped becouse i had rl stuff to do, and i must say i love it. I loved it even when it was full of bugs, easy content, and loads of fails, but i still loved it. Now, they fixed bunch of stuff, introduced some new things the game needed, and after playing each and every MMO including wow since vanilla, i must say this one is my game of choice.
I think this f2p option will be really good to get the people to try the game, instead of believeing random retards on internet that the game sucks. It is superior to other games in so many ways. And the comunity is more mature, at least from my expirience.

I thought swtor was a very fun game, the ops and fps were a good time. My complaints with the game all stem from how it was managed and I understand that my biggest complaint has been resolved and corrected - but it doesn't fix the 3 months I paid for and couldn't play because I was on a dead server and am only interested in the MMO part of an mmo.

6° the leveling is very nice, it's good when you make another ALT and you don't have the same class story

I really, really, really hate levelling in SWTOR. After going through Imperial Balmorra for the fourth time it's just no. No is all I can say.
Levelling in SWTOR is horrible. The different class stories didn't help either.

If I had to come up with a genre, I'd call it "future fiction" or "future fantasy".

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away......

I've have always struggled to get my head around peoples comments that it feels like a single player game, IMHO during leveling the game nudges
you towards grouping more than any other MMO that I've played.
One thing I prefer about TOR above any other MMO I've played is the stories and character building, my characters feels more like a characters rather than just something to hang gear onto.
But the biggest pull for me is that 9 months in I still raise a little smile when I force leap into combat and hear the hummmm and clash of lightsabers...that is what I love most about the game.

I've have always struggled to get my head around peoples comments that it feels like a single player game, IMHO during leveling the game nudges
you towards grouping more than any other MMO that I've played.

I agree. I just can't fathom how people can call SWTOR a single player game, but not WoW. SWTOR has more features that allow you to track group members quests, and you get experience and loot buffs for being in a group. There's also social points as just another little benefit. SWTOR also made group leveling easier with the way they handle objects on the ground. In WoW when you pick up a ground item everybody has to wait for it to respawn, but in SWTOR it will stay there for the entire group to loot. SWTOR's leveling system has a ton of features that support leveling and playing with other people, but it's somehow a single player game while MMO's that restrict you in groups are not.

I might get some hate for this...but in my opinion they should open up cross realm warzones and permanently end same faction matches, i.e. Republic vs Republic and Empire vs. Empire matches.

I agree with cross realm WZs, don't necessarily with ending same faction. While I prefer the idea of same server group finder, same server WZs really serves no purpose. It isn't quite the same material. Also, it should have been out for Rated WZs. They really fucked up when they didn't bring out cross realm for that despite saying they would. As for same faction, whatever pushes the queue pops out faster is alright, in my book.

Side note. Since I don't play anymore. Have they even started Season 1 yet in Rateds?