Thursday, July 23, 2009

Tananarive got a prescription for migraines, so Blue Shield wants to put her on the most expensive plan they have. Heaven help us if they saw this as a "pre-existing condition." I consider this price gouging and fixing. If the insurance companies are spending 1.5 million a day in lobbying, that's obviously not money invested in providing services to their clients. This suggests a gigantic amount of profit that can be used to muddy the waters. There are legitimate reasons to oppose socialized health care (especially if you are one of the fortunate ones to either be able to pay for the best, or work for an organization that provides top-level care). I think that the same level of care (for the top 5%) will end up costing a little more. But all of the fear that the system will somehow collapse strikes me as pure hysteria.

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The public option clearly panics many people--literally, they don't want people to have the CHOICE, which is bizarre to me. Among the questions I have are:

1) People ask how we'll pay for this. But...aren't we paying twice as much for our health care as Canada (per capita) for lesser results? Even if we say that the results are "comparable" that "twice as much per capita" remains. So my question is: if everyone who wanted a public option switched their insurance investment to the public option, how much money would that be? If the people who CURRENTLY say that they want this put their money behind it, how much would that be? Even considering that we want to cover the poor and elderly who might not be able to pay their own way...wouldn't that be a serious chunk of the change.

##

Let's remove direct self-interest from this debate. I figure there are only two groups of people who can be trusted to speak more from "the good of the country" than naked self interest. These two groups are:

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1) People who can afford health care, or currently have health care, but believe in the Public option.

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2) People who do NOT have health care, but are AGAINST a public option.

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I would love to hear from ONLY members of these two groups, explaining their positions.

The arrest of Henry Louis Gates seems to be one of those polarizing events that points out blindness on both sides. I've yet to see a precise chronology of what exactly happened, or if Gates actually offered the police officer his driver's license. I know he offered a university ID card, but am not at all sure that the officer was obliged to accept it. My sense is that Gates was offended, and allowed that offense to interfere with the quality of communication. The officer, on the other hand, probably allowed his own sense of power gradients to interfere in HIS ability to communicate. Anyone who thinks that race had NOTHING to do with this is blind. Anyone who thinks race had EVERYTHING to do with it is blind as well. White people get arrested for not presenting proper identification. Was Gates MORE likely to have a problem because of his skin color? I would think so, yes. But if someone broke into my house, and a neighbor called it in to the police (and saying "two black men" as the neighbor did is simply describing the men. She might have said "two tall men" or "two women" or "two blond men"--in other words, just an attempt to make the officer's job easier, and protect her neighbor's property. On the other hand, she might have been more likely to call cops because the men were black. Historically, that has certainly been true.)

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My sense is that wealthy, famous people get a sense of entitlement. Gates, from that point of view, didn't want to be given the privilege of a white person. He wanted the privilege of a WEALTHY, FAMOUS white person. And when he didn't get it, he got...well, the term "uppity" comes to mind. Ultimately, this is all good for the national debate. And will probably move things in the right direction.

##Anyone know a "Birther"? I knew the crazies would come running from under their flat rocks when Obama was elected, but their frenzied disbelief is still kinda stunning. Knowing lots of black people who never believed they'd see a black man in the White House, and watching the steam come out of their ears as they saw it happen...I wondered what the parallel thought pattern would be among the whites who harbor racial antipathy. And clearly, they just can't believe it. He must be a fake. He must be a Manchurian Candidate (wouldn't McCain actually fit that bill one hell of a lot closer..?) There must be a gigantic conspiracy, involving thousands of people and stretching back almost five decades. Wow. That is some serious mental difficulty, and I feel sorry for them.

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It is one of these "Birthers" by the way, who would make a perfect "lone gunman" fall-guy if anything Kennedyesque were to happen to our Prez. Man oh man, can I see that one coming.

124 comments:

My immediate reaction was that the Gates' incident was all about race, but you are right; there is a lot we don't know.

I have good health care paid for by my employer, but I think that public universal healthcare would most likely be better, so long as it did not involve taking away my choice of how much vitamin C and vitamin D, etc, that I take. Having a choice of a public option seems a pretty good way to go. For myself, I think I would not choose a voluntary public option immediately, but might well after seeing how it works in practice. All my friends who have experience with the systems in Canada, England, and Austria seem very happy with them.

On the health care issue: I previously had health care through my employer but then switched to my wife's employer's health care when she was eligible for health care coverag through her employer.

I'm in favor of the public option. In fact, I would be in favor of universal health care. My reasons are as follows:

1. I lost my job about a year ago and lost health care coverage as a result. Did I mention that my wife was six months pregnant at the time and that she was not eligible for health care coverage under her employer? I was busting my butt to find new employment (as an attorney) as soon as I found out that I was going to lose my job. I was lucky and found a new position. Paying for health care coverage and my son's birth on my own would have been difficult if not impossible. Do not bring up COBRA. It is a joke. If I am going to have a choice in the matter, I would rather pay for a system where I will be covered if I lose my job, than one where I lose coverage as soon as I lose my employment. (By the way, as an employment lawyer, who graduated from the University of Chicago law school [extremely proud of my former professor. Unhappy about the long delay in returning my term paper] in practice for about 7 years, in a small and stable firm for the past 1.5 years, I consider loss of my job to be a real and constant threat).

2. My experience of living in Europe and having some contact (admittedly limited) with the German healthcare system indicated to me that such systems are not the massive-lined/delayed care systems that they are presented to be.

3. My wife has worked in the British healthcare system and the U.S. system. Her opinion is that while the UK system is not perfect, it does a lot better for the majority of its citizens. Particularly with an emphasis on preventive care.

4. My previous healthcare through my employer was absolute crap!!! $550 per month (more than my federal tax withholding) for my family with a $5600 annual deductible. It was catastrophic care at best.

5. I don't buy the argument that people have against paying for someone else's health care. (a) That's what you're doing with insurance anyway and (b) I'll pay for everyone else's health care as long as I know that when I'm in need, they (or the system) will pay for mine.

I have great employer subsidized health care -- less than $200 a month for a family of 7, PPO including vision and dental. Maybe U.S. Senators have better health care than me, but not by much.

I'm not particularly in favor of the public option on insurance, though I'm OK with it; whatever mechanism gets us to universal health care is fine by me. My only question about the public option is whether it does that. (That is, my concerns about it run to the left of what's being disussed, not to the right.)

To borrow from Reagan, a rising tide lifts all boats -- a healthier country is a more productive country. Being in favor of universal health care is like being in favor of universal schooling -- I'm very skeptical of the people who object to either, and I think both improve my quality of life by improving the quality of life of the people around me.

I'm in the top 10% of wage earners in this country, and not at the bottom of that 10%, either. There's no practical scenario where I'm going to have difficulty providing for my family -- though even here college expenses for five kids are looking like somewhere north of a million dollars.

But my oldest daughter is 19. As long as she's enrolled full time at berkeley (28K a year) she's covered by my insurance. As soon as she's out, she's not. What does she do then? Daughter #2 is almost 18, same problem. I don't assume that employer-paid insurance is going to be around in another ten or twenty years; even now it's one of the largest expense centers for all companies.

The population is aging. If we don't get a handle on medical expenses now, there's zero chance this country's finances are ever going to get straightened out.

I spent the last year out of the country. There are better ways elsewhere to handle medical insurance, and if it comes to it, I'll take them. Most people don't have that option -- I can work anywhere. Most people can't.

The U.S. is flat-out broke. If it doesn't get a handle on the places where it's spending too much, and medical care is certainly one of them, the country's headed for dark, dark times, sufficient to make people look back on the Great Depresssion fondly.

Well, I can afford health care and have it through my job, but if I could save money with a public plan I would.

I have only sent two days in the hospital in my life and that was for appendicitis.

What the plan needs to do is sponsor healthy diets and lifestyles from childhood or obesity and sickness will continue increasing until we look like the people from Wall E. Well not me.

As far as birthers, it's just the ignorant coming out of the woodwork. People like that don't have the guts to attack anyone physically. They rely on people being unwilling to fight their whole life for what's right and just.

That's where our race has failed - at least the "men." There are 35-40 year old men dressing like 17 year old near-illiterate thugs.

I have cursed cops out before and never got arrested. WHite ones at that.

I remember this one time I was riding my bike to check on my tax return and I was stopped by a female officer for - get this - riding my bike on the sidewalk.

I refused to show my ID until they proved that it was illegal. One large cop called himself intimidating someone by leaping out of the car. That didn't work.

And that's when I started cursing. Not at them but abotu the Brooklyn BS. I asked the black female why she wasn't concerned about the young "thugs" NOT having a dress code..She said, "that's not up to me" as if Americans can't make changes.

Christian, I will tell you via private message, but not here. I have no wish to stir things up there; it is a discussion group that mostly I like. Are you on Steve's 5MM discussion board? If so, I will send you a private message there if you tell me your name there.

Steve: I know you said only those who are happy with their health care and for a government health care program should answer this post but I have to ask this. Medicare is the only example of government health insurance in this country. If government provided health care is so good, how come there exists a need for medicare supplemental insurance and so many people buy it.

I don't have insurance. I believe the current system is diastrously bad, but I'm not convinced that any solution which comes out of the political process will be much better.

My prediction is that, if Obama gets a plan through, more people will be covered, but the costs will get a lot higher, rather than lower. And most of this will be because of deals made by the medical industry, not because more people get medical care.

I'm expecting something at least as impudent as the government not being allowed to bargain on drug priced.

I was wondering if Obama's ability to raise money from the public would be enough to free him from the lobbyists, but probably not. I don't know if it's because congress members don't have the same ability to raise money, Obama isn't sure he can do it twice, or whether his inclination to keep everyone in the discussion is preventing him from using it as a threat.

I have cursed cops out before and never got arrested. WHite ones at that.

You were lucky. I got threatened with arrest, when stopped on a bicycle, simply for repeatedly asking the cop what I was under suspicion for before showing him my ID. In a level, non-cursing voice. (I'm convinced the cop wouldn't have acted that way, though, if I hadn't been living, at the time, in a poor, mostly Latino neighborhood. Every other time I've interacted with cops, including a time when I was in a car where the woman decided to flee rather than letting the cops stop her, the cops were less aggressive than that.)

Not, mind you, that the cops should have arrested you for cursing them. Cops should have thicker skins than that, and, even if I take the cops' report on Gates as gospel at all the points where it's at odds with his, they'd still be out of line for letting an identicifation request in his own home escalate to arrest after he'd showed him an ID and they knew he was the resident. No real excuse for them. Probably influenced by the fact that he was black, but even if it wasn't, no real excuse.

I do have a health plan (and have had one my whole life except for one year after I graduated from college, when I was stuck without insurance or enough money to get it). I support a public option because:

1) Several other countries with a healthcare system that includes a public option seem to have a system that delivers comparable care to ours in most cases, and perhaps better results on some measures (e.g. infant mortality) in a more cost effective way.

2) The fact that a certain set of people under the current system wind up getting all their primary care in the emergency room troubles me.

3) Though I do have good health care, I'm also sole breadwinner for a chronically ill spouse, and despite all my attempts to save, I'm not that many paychecks from being unable to take care of him, should I get laid off, given the cost of covering COBRA myself (unless I drain my retirement plans to pay for his health care, if I can even do that without severe tax penalties). I'd be willing to pay a little extra in taxes for more security for me and especially for my husband, in the event of layoff. Because even though I'm darned good at what I do, I've learned that that isn't proof against layoff in all economic climates.

I think that you hit the nail on the head. Ultimately, in the Gates situation, once he provided identification, there was no need to arrest him. The problem with this case is that race is going to dominate the debate. If you taken race out of it entirely what do you have: A man is arrested in his own home after providing identification.

Disorderly conduct - my general impression as a former prosecutor is that D/C charges are usually bs.

Medicare is the only example of government health insurance in this country.

Not true. VA.

If government provided health care is so good, how come there exists a need for medicare supplemental insurance and so many people buy it.

Dunno about so good, but the people with medicare are happier than the people with private insurance, and report better access to care.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/njonline/mp_20090629_2600.php

Consider some results obtained by the same Kaiser tracking poll. When asked how much they trust various health care players "to put your interests above their own," respondents rank doctors (78 percent trust "a lot" or "some") and nurses (74 percent) at the top of the list.

Among those insured through Medicare, however, "the Medicare program" (68 percent) scores nearly as high. Among those with private insurance, "your health insurance company" earns much less trust (48 percent).

And his isn't recent; similar results from ths poll, which is 7 years old:

Simple. Because people always want more. Nothing wrong with that. But your example certainly puts the lie to the idea that insurance companies will go out of business. There will be a THRIVING business in providing additional services.

Pagan Topologist:You are welcome, and thank all of YOU for helping to keep things civil here. Yes, we have the occasional juvenile post, but little actual venom. This kind of dialog is critical to a democratic society. Hell...to any society at all.

And remember when I said we should talk to our enemies? Well, political or philosophical opponents aren't "enemies"--if I can't speak respectfully to honest, honorable people who see the world differently, what the hell am I doing advocating discussion with people who might want to kill us?

A) Birthers- You're right; the (right-side) tin-foil brigade is in full howl about this. OTOH, the time and effort spent by Obama and his folks to keep from actually presenting a real birth certificate raise my concern, because of this rather unique "feature" of Hawaiian citizenship (from http://www.hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html

) "Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country." It reminds me too much of Kerry's DD214 flap, which never was resolved.

B) Gates - They're both in the wrong. Gates for too being too damned touchy and the cop for being badge-heavy. Lipping off to cops is almost always a losing proposition. They get into the cop business because they like that power, and they're trained to always be "in control"; never reactive, always pro-active. Faced with a little agression, like lip, they respond at a higher level, like threats. Keep it up, and Gates found out where that leads. We need better police training and recruiting.

C) Health care -First off, I'm over 65, so I'm "on" Medicare, but since I'm still working, I have regular employer-paid insurance, so I've never used a cent of Medicare, including the big bill for open-heart surgery. What insurace didn't cover, I paid for.

Second, I have dealt with Medicare- my MIL lived with us for years, and the level of paperwork for us was 2 to 3X what I dealt with with private insurance. As well, Medicare reimbursement to the doctors and hospitals was extraordinarily slow. The longest I've ever seen a private payment take was 7 months. My MIL was buried 18 months and some of her medical bills were still unpaid.

Third, my grandson is living with us while he goes to school, and he can't get decent insurance coverage because of a "pre-existing condition" (an ADD diagnosis), so I'm paying out-of-pocket for his medical expenses (dental care, prescription Ritalin and regular visits for prescribing same). Not cheap.

Fourth, I've personally dealt with government provided health care as well; I attempted, when I first got out of the Army to have the VA pay for correcting the dental screwups of the military. I finally gave up and paid my own.

I think you can see where I'm going with this. Gov't control - and that's EXACTLY what Obamacare is- of the health care system in this country would be a disaster. What we need is a better regulatory environment for health insurance, one that is more transparent, and one less likely to be captured by the medical establishment.

I know people who could certainly use some free health care, but I look at them and say, "You know, compared to me, right now, they are lacking, but, compared to me thirty years ago, there's no difference."

I have a bit of a selfish motive here, as well. It's pretty damned obvious that if the gov't controls all the medical resources, some bureaucrat is going to get to decide whether or not I'm "too old" to get the knee surgery I'm heading for. I'd rather take my chances on my own, thank you.

Lynn: the article about the AMA and ADA the number of physicians and Dentist and indicating that there are the same number of graduates today as in 1970 when the population was only 200 million is some what unfair in that it doesn't give the whole picture. In 1970 the position of Physicians Assistant and Dental Assistant were brand new and there were very few of them today there are over 68000 PAs in the U.S and the number is growing rapidly. They do many of the routine exams the primary physicians used to do.

I find that the only thing people "in power" respect is the desire to fight for your rights.

It had nothing to do with "cursing." I didn't curse the cops I said a curse word.

My point was that I have dealt with cops in "situations" and have always walked away. Hell, I've had cops pull their guns on me and I still cursed them out and walked away. Not every time but once shows that there is something else involved in these 35 shot cases.

It also brings up the case of the off-duty cop who looked like a thug and was shot by another officer.

IF men are knowing that certain modes of dress place you in the "suspicious" category,

IF men are knowing that certain modes of dress place you in the "suspicious" category,

It's true that wearing certain modes of dress will make you more likely to be seen by cops as "suspicious." But ...

... are you actually saying that Skip Gates was arrested because he dressed shabbily and didn't assert his rights forcefully enough? Because this seems really, really unlikely to me, given Gates' account, the cop's account, and the arrest photo I've seen of Gates.

"Knowing lots of black people who never believed they'd see a black man in the White House, and watching the steam come out of their ears as they saw it happen"

Reading back though old posts, now that Instapundit has turned me on to you (why I'm posting now on such an old post).

I can tell you I have steam coming out of my ears because someone who was manifestly and foreseeably unprepared to even grow into the job got elected because of his skin color. To go by his record, Senator "Present" should have stuck to the usual graft of Chicago politicking.

"##The public option clearly panics many people--literally, they don't want people to have the CHOICE, which is bizarre to me."

Why should anyone want people to have the choice to cut checks from the fed treasury? Why is that distortion of the market and moral hazard a good thing to expand?

"But...aren't we paying twice as much for our health care as Canada (per capita) for lesser results?"\

Are we? Lesser how (more to the point, greater how)? Why are we paying more?...

..Because the only way to make them pay more (of the fair share for drug development costs) would be to bomb their pharma factories when they started making the results of the 1 of 50 (at best) drug development efforts which pan out, after we pay to find out which one that is, and then try to charge them the full fraction of freight they owe, and they tell our drug patent holders to sod off.

RE Birthers, there are only two rational reasons I can think of for Obama not producing the long form birth certificate, 1) there is something embarrassing to him on it, 2) never interrupt your opponent when they are making a mistake. There's nothing saying it can't be both.

"Knowing lots of black people who never believed they'd see a black man in the White House, and watching the steam come out of their ears as they saw it happen"

Reading back though old posts, now that Instapundit has turned me on to you (why I'm posting now on such an old post).

I can tell you I have steam coming out of my ears because someone who was manifestly and foreseeably unprepared to even grow into the job got elected because of his skin color. To go by his record, Senator "Present" should have stuck to the usual graft of Chicago politicking.

"##The public option clearly panics many people--literally, they don't want people to have the CHOICE, which is bizarre to me."

Why should anyone want people to have the choice to cut checks from the fed treasury? Why is that distortion of the market and moral hazard a good thing to expand?

"But...aren't we paying twice as much for our health care as Canada (per capita) for lesser results?"\

Are we? Lesser how (more to the point, greater how)? Why are we paying more?...

..Because the only way to make them pay more (of the fair share for drug development costs) would be to bomb their pharma factories when they started making the results of the 1 of 50 (at best) drug development efforts which pan out, after we pay to find out which one that is, and then try to charge them the full fraction of freight they owe, and they tell our drug patent holders to sod off.

RE Birthers, there are only two rational reasons I can think of for Obama not producing the long form birth certificate, 1) there is something embarrassing to him on it, 2) never interrupt your opponent when they are making a mistake. There's nothing saying it can't be both.

About Me

For the last thirty years or so I’ve been a lecturer, coach, novelist and television writer. For the last forty years I’ve been involved variously in the martial arts, and for all my life I’ve studied and enjoyed yoga. Not that I worked at it as hard and honestly as I should have—I’d be a combination of BKS Iyengar and Bruce Lee if I had.
After publishing about three million words of science fiction (including the New York Times bestsellers The Legacy of Heorot and The Cestus Deception) and having about twenty hours of produced television shows (including The Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, Andromeda, and Stargate, as well as four episodes of the immortal Baywatch), I’ve got opinions on the writing life.
After earning black belts in Judo and Karate, and practicing the Indonesian art of Pentjak Silat Serak for the last fifteen, well, I have some opinions there, as well. And having struggled to live consciously since childhood...well, those opinions are probably strongest of all.