Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014? Posted on: Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:12 am

Monroe wrote:

It's ok there is a rocket- just not going to waste it.

So it appears that Prometheus is no longer pursuing the N-Prize. Are there any other groups that will attempt a launch by the deadline? How about WikiSat? If not by the deadline, how about by the end of 2014?

Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014? Posted on: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:23 am

Space shot- not orbital. Orbital balloon launch is out air launch is in. Looking for a Mig 29 for orbital attempts, need funding for that. We won't need funding for the space shot in not much more time.Our private airstrip on Matagorda can support a Mig if we can get one.

Monroe

Dave the answer is no there won't be any orbital attempts at the N-Prize. With the N-Prize gone I'm sure any future attempts will be outside the N-Prize criteria.

You can check yourself for orbital payloads with the UN if you like. If one get's filed for launch it would be big news.

I doubt there's even another team that knows the whole procedure to actually orbit any craft.

Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014? Posted on: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:26 pm

Thanks for the explanation. So you don't want to waste your rocket on a space shot. You want to wait till you have a Mig 29, so you can strap the rocket to the bottom of the Mig and launch it into orbit. That's amazing! Can you post a picture of your rocket? It must be something if it can achieve orbit launched from a Mig. Or is the rocket you have intended for a space shot from a balloon? Either way I'd liked to see it. It must be an incredible rocket.

Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014? Posted on: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:56 am

Dave I don't see why you need to convolute everything I said. I think it's pretty plain.

Yes, I am seeking investors for a Mig 29 and small orbital launcher.

I am not interested in balloon launches to orbit (only an N-Prize thing). I am interested in making a balloon based space shot.

We are moving onward from the N-Prize yes.

Team Prometheus is still working on a space shot.Aeronautic Enterprises Inc. Is seeking funding for an orbital launcher.

Thank you Dr. Paul Dear for a great time and a great adventure. Let's do it again!

I have posted photo's of the space shot rocket motor and 170,000cft balloon and everything else I mentioned. Just go to the FB page they are on there. See Matagorda the boats the mission control the antennas the trackers ect... The recent plane drops the guidance and telemetry are solid to 70 miles now.

With more to come. Where's your rocket, launch site ect... ? Who's hard work over 5 years got Team Prometheus this far?

Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014? Posted on: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:39 am

Monroe, I launch rockets for fun. I'm part of the 98% that you claim are wasting our time. I've seen the stuff you've posted on your webpage, but I haven't seen anything there that would make it to space. I'll have to look at your facebook page again to see if I missed something.

BTW, Paul Dear announced that he will announce that he's removing the deadline for the N-Prize. Maybe there's a chance that someone will win it in the next 20 or 30 years.

EDIT: I looked at the pictures on your Facebook site, and the only rocket I saw appeared to be an old U.S. Rockets model rocket with a balsa nosecone. It looks like it uses BT-80 cardboard tubing that has a diameter of 2.6 inches. Is that the rocket you're going to use for your space shot?

Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014? Posted on: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:10 am

Quote:

Re: Keep me posted!!!!by rick m » Wed May 25, 2011 3:06 pm Hi Paul,

I hope a team somewhere can pull this off before the September 19th deadline. As I've stated before, if it doesn't happen by the deadline, and because of our late decision to try, we are working to see this happen at some point in time and would welcome the expertise of other teams that have/had been involved to join together with us (as a united "Team N-Prize") to see your challenge eventually happen. Heck, we are now looking at the N-Plus Prize as well. I just hope you're announcement isn't a cancelation of the challenge and even if it is, we are committed to still do it.

Rick

Thanks to Paul lifting the deadline, while it may not be done by 2014, I would again like to invite people that were interested in doing the N-Prize but were intimidated by the deadline, complexity, funding, etc to join talents under a TEAM N-PRIZE to make this happen. International in scope like our Sugar Shot program and open source with free exchange of ideas and information. Any space project is a serious undertaking requiring the talents of many but together we can make this happen.

Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014? Posted on: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:56 pm

SA Rocket Guy,

“UpStart” and as soon as possible, but not by the end of 2014. Sorry, that’s all you get. Can’t say where, can’t say when, but with the deadline for the N-Prize abolished I am certain someone or an other on this forum is going to leave Paul a little poorer but pleased as Punch. Maybe even someone from the southern hemisphere... Naaah! It’s going to be an American, probably a Texan! (“Them’s fightin’ words!”)

All joking aside, your postings here and your work at AeroSpace Research clearly demonstrate you are very serious about progress in the field in general and in the competition for the N-Prize in particular. I see a bright future for commercial and scientific aerospace services using small-scale, low-cost orbital and suborbital transportation systems. The N-Prize has become a surprisingly important factor in the development of that market and AeroSpace Research is leading the way in South Africa. Best of luck to you.

We are keeping “Tata Madiba” and his family and all of South Africa in our hearts and prayers.

Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014? Posted on: Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:46 pm

Thanks, Nelson Mandela means a lot to many people world-wide. He is turning 95 on the 18th.

Just to be clear. I still don't believe that the N-Prize can be won even without the deadline. If someone does accomplish it I will eat a good helping of Humble-Pie. My personal wish is to see Dr. Dear attempt the N-Prize. If he succeeds, the next group to do it could get the prize money. Imagine if someone proves that it can be done, how many people would want to try for themselves.

My view on the N-prize notwithstanding, I see a future for small payloads to orbit. I am fully committed to creating a launcher capability for Cube-Sats and larger. Our National Space Agency, SANSA, has shown interest in such a capability and that gives me something to work towards.

BTW: We are running a school-program during the holidays where we teach STEM with Rocketry to kids from various backgrounds. Some have never even heard of a satellite.

Would you, USJay, care to give us some insight into your background? Since you have read about me on the internet, I am curious to know about you.

Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014? Posted on: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:37 pm

Hi all,

I figured I was well overdue in commenting here! As you know (from this thread and from posts in other threads), the N-Prize is being left open, meaning that it can be won at any time in the future. Yes, in a sense (as someone pointed out), the original N-Prize was "lost" at the time of the first deadline extension. But that is more a reflection on my optimism than on the teams.

A couple of people here have mentioned that the N-Prize set them, or others, off on an adventure - and that was half the motivation behind starting the Prize. People - including me - need adventures, and half the reward is the journey itself.

But did I start the N-Prize expecting, or even hoping, that I'd never have to pay out? Absolutely not. If the adventure is half the reward, then seeing the Prize(s) won will be the other 9/10ths

The N-Prize is important to me because it reminds me that there are still people out there like me (except that they are way better at rocketry than I could ever be!) What I mean is - I have always believed that individuals and small teams can come up with solutions where the big money can't. I have a tremendous faith in the power of ingenuity over money. This is a typical "British" attitude - we were brought up on tales of Barnes-Wallis and other "back-room boys" who had limited resources but who either beat the odds and succeeded, or at least had fun trying.

I put the same philosophy into my day-job (in science). I can't say I'm changing the world, but I'm doing OK and enjoying it at the same time. Big budgets do get things done, and there are some things that can only be done with big money, but low-budget small-team science is often behind some of the best discoveries.

But, all around me, I see science heading toward bigger budgets, toward massive teams, toward a corporate attitude. Inevitably, this means that things get too big to fail, which in turn means that there's a loss of risk-taking.

So, for me, the N-Prize was a chance to see if the "back-room" spirit is still alive and well, and it has gladdened my heart to see that it is not just alive, but thriving, in countries around the world. The N-Prize teams range from nuts (don't get me wrong - 'nut' is intended as a compliment!) through to some very sophisticated and realistic engineers, and everything in between.

I understand also why some people who have been in rocketry for a long time get annoyed by the N-Prize. After all, I'm just some schmoe with no space-related credentials (apart from optimism) wandering in and saying "it's easy, and can be done on a shoestring". Truly, I know how difficult this stuff is. I'm not saying "it's easy"; I'm saying that there is still room for innovation even (or especially) at the bottom of the financial ladder.

If there was no argument over whether the N-Prize is possible or not, I'd be unhappy. That would mean that either it was absolutely, fundamentally impossible; or that it was obviously, easily possible. If opinion on its feasibility is split anywhere from 90:10 to 10:90, I'm happy.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I am very privileged to have the opportunity to get involved in this and (apart from the ludicrously small prize(s) for the winner(s)), all I can offer in return is the hope that some people have fun along the way.

Yours,Paul

_________________"Gentlemen, we haven't got any money, so we are going to have to think!"

Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014? Posted on: Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:53 am

SA Rocket Guy,

(I wrote this just before Paul’s latest post, so I hope you will overlook any overlap in the overview. Over.)

You have been very clear in your belief the prize can not be won. I see the challenge as a juggling act. We have all been amazed at one time or an other by the skill of a juggler. Four, five even six balls in the air and all done seemingly effortlessly. What is unseen is how he got there. The juggler begins tossing just three balls until he masters them. Only then does he add a fourth, and then a fifth, and so on.

The N-Prize competition requires the winner(s) to juggle a dozen or so variables that determine the success or failure of any attempt; thrust, drag, weight, specific impulse and so on. One by one the variables must be mastered, until the day arrives when you can keep them all in the air. Then you invite Dr. Dear to visit and politely remind him to bring his checkbook!

However, the challenge is not merely to miniaturize step by step what has already been done by governmental space agencies. Paul clearly saw the opportunity for real innovation when he decided to turn an interesting question into an international competition and I believe real innovation is the only way to success.

This means everything regarding spaceflight is subject to question, except the laws of physics. The established technology for shifting a motionless object on the surface of the Earth to orbital velocity a hundred miles higher is entirely open to scrutiny. No detail is too small (or too big). Nothing can be assumed to be invariable. Nothing.

If the challenge were simply to make a smaller cheaper version of existing aerospace technology, I might agree with you. The prize might not be winnable. The N-Prize requires more than that, though. Winning requires original thinking, going back to the beginning and starting over. The teams already registered are a population of original thinkers and more are likely to join the race. There is no doubt. Sooner or later, the prize will be won.

Regarding whether Dr. Dear should attempt a flight, personally, I hope not. Mostly because I fear for his life if he does!

Paul, wonderful that you mention Sir Barnes Wallis. I have always admired that lovable lunatic. Stick with the search for extraterrestrial microbes, though. What harm could they do you? Oh, wait...

Last edited by USJay on Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.