Welcome, one and all, to the second year of the Group Pick'em game. After our inaugural season was something of a hit and miss, I've decided to overhaul the game a little this year. Our first Champion, Herb, pretty much cruised to the title in the end, so it wouldn't be (an) F1 (related game) if we didn't do everything in our power to eradicate that advantage, would it?! The changes for this year are as follows:

All-new scoring systemOne of the biggest issues last season was that the scoring system was based on its real-life equivalent, which meant that in every race, you had 12 drivers scoring the same number of points: zero. It also meant that selections such as the Saubers and Manors of the F1 world were, at most races, absolutely useless. In a bid to combat this, every driver will score points using the revised system:

So I've added 10 points to each of the real-life points to allow us to have them handed out for the rest of the finishers as well. Hopefully this will mean a greater emphasis placed on all selections, not just those at the front of the field. And to reiterate, these points will be awarded regardless of whether a driver actually makes it to the end of the race or not. Otherwise certain teams (*cough* McLaren *cough*) look likely to have so many DNFs that they'll end up scoring about as many points in this new system as Manor and Sauber did in 2016...

Points for teams will be the combined total their two drivers score under this system. So if Hamilton and Bottas are classified 1st and 17th, Mercedes would score 39 points for that race (35 + 4).

All-new transfer system (v2!)

The joker system, while actually not that terrible, was a little limiting. The biggest issue with it was not so much the joker system itself, but the fact that once everybody's selections were locked in for the season, it made it impossible for those with bad predictions to overcome that handicap. Even, say, someone who made awful selections but actually accumulated the most joker points (I wonder who that awesome, handsome person was?!) still finished well down the order. So for 2017 we bid the joker adieu, introducing the following transfer system in its place:

- Everyone starts with 200 transfer points to use however they wish. There is no limit on the number of transfers you can make per race or per group; the only limitation is the 200 points.- A transfer will be considered final when a race weekend begins (when FP1 goes green). Like last year, a transfer can be requested in advance of a race weekend but cancelled before the weekend begins. However, this must be done in a separate post stating that you now wish to cancel that transfer. Deleting the original post will not be considered a withdrawal of a transfer request because I'm unable to see when posts are deleted (and therefore it would be open to abuse).- A driver's transfer value is dictated by their standing in the WDC. Whichever driver is first in the WDC costs 20 points to transfer; the driver in 2nd costs 19 points to transfer; the driver in 3rd costs 18 points to transfer; and so on down to the driver in 20th, who costs just 1 point to transfer. - A team's transfer value is dictated by their standing in the WCC. Whichever team is first in the WCC costs 40 points to transfer; the team in 2nd costs 36 points to transfer; and so on down to the team in 10th, which costs 4 points to transfer. - When you transfer a driver/team out of your selections, you do not receive their value back in additional points. There are also no additional points on offer for not making transfers (as there were in the previous transfer rules).- At the end of the season, any transfer points you have remaining will be added to your overall score, with the exception of 'inactive' teams. A team will be considered 'inactive' if four consecutive races pass without the team's manager posting in this thread at least once. Any team which suffers three such inactive periods will not have remaining transfer points added to their overall score. This is mainly to avoid a situation whereby someone signs up, doesn't come back to the thread all season, and then receives a 200-point bonus by virtue of having made no transfers.- No transfers will be permitted until after the third race of the season (Bahrain). This is to try and avoid a situation where misfortune in the opening rounds results in a driver/team being significantly less expensive than they otherwise would be. It is also to ensure extra weight is attached to everyone's initial picks.

And... actually, that is it as far as the changes go. To be fair, it wasn't a particularly complex game in 2016 and I didn't want to change that for 2017. I did consider continuing the joker system alongside the transfer system, but I was a little worried it might all get a bit overcomplicated. Which brings us nicely onto:

2017 Groups

You need to make one selection from each group, so you end up with five drivers and three teams.

As you can see, we're running five groups of drivers and three groups of teams, as opposed to the six/four we had in 2016. This is partly to reflect the fact that Manor's demise has reduced the grid by a team, but also to (hopefully) mix up the selections a little more. More groups = smaller groups = less variation in selections. This is probably the most challenging aspect of the game from my perspective as I can only really go off of testing/speculation as to the competitiveness of the teams, so there is always the chance there are clear favourites in each group. Again, though, I'm hopeful that by extending the points system it'll limit that as much as possible. I did consider the possibility of moving drivers/teams around after a few races to reflect the actual pecking order, but I would expect that to end up becoming a huge mess so I'm going to leave the groups as they are for the year.

What If...

This was a pretty useful section to have last year so I'm including it again.

What if one of my selections is replaced by a driver not on the grid? For example, one of my selections gets sick of his GP2 - sorry, FIA F2 - engine and decides to quit F1? (Sorry, Jenson). Or one of my drivers is unable to take part in a race due to injury/suspension? Then you will receive any points scored by the replacement for as long as they continue to replace the original selection. You would, of course, be able to transfer out the replacement for another driver in that group.What if the aforementioned F2 engine suddenly improved and the disgruntled Spaniard decided, actually, he quite fancied racing in F1 again? (Sorry, Jenson). Well if you hadn't transferred out his replacement, you would revert back to having Alonso in your team. If you had transferred out his replacement then you would continue with the driver you transferred into your team, but would be able to transfer Alonso back in upon his return if you wanted.What if we have a repeat of 2016 whereby one driver on the grid swaps seats with another driver on the grid, like Max Verstappen and Daniil Kvyat? Using 2016 as an example, from the moment Red Bull promoted Verstappen, anyone who had originally selected Kvyat began scoring whatever points Verstappen scored, whilst those who had originally selected Verstappen started scoring the points Kvyat scored. Essentially, it is treated as a driver being replaced so as not to unbalance my carefully crafted driver groups! Of course, the big difference in 2017 is you can transfer out one (or both) drivers involved in a swap if you wished.What if a driver and/or team is excluded from the result of a race? I won't post the results for a race until, at the earliest, Monday afternoon, and they'll usually come later in the week as it takes a little time to write it all up. So hopefully any exclusions will have been made very clear by that point. However, if a driver/team is under investigation when I post the results then they will remain unofficial until that investigation has been concluded and it all becomes official. What if a driver or team I've selected is excluded from the overall standings, such as Schumi in '97 or McLaren in '07? I would follow the FIA's lead on this one. If they allow the driver/team to retain the points they've scored then I will do the same. If, like McLaren in 2007, the team is banned from scoring constructors points but the drivers are still awarded points towards the WDC then that would be what we would do here. Basically, whatever the FIA decide in such a scenario would be what I would do. What if I want to make a transfer for the next race, but FP1 had already begun? I'm going to be very clear on this: no transfers will be accepted once FP1 has commenced. As I will not always be online at that moment, I will take the timestamp on any post made as a means to determine whether a transfer is permitted or not. So if FP1 is scheduled to begin at 9am GMT, if a transfer post was made at 8:59am GMT then it would be accepted; if it were made at 9:00am GMT then I will assume FP1 has commenced and it would be rejected. Of course, if the start of FP1 is delayed then I would do my best to find the exact time it began and use that time as the deadline for transfers.What if something that hasn't been covered here happens? In that case I would put it to a vote whereby the majority would rule. I would try to run any poll for a week but if it were something that needed to be determined for the next race weekend, I would set a deadline of the start of FP1.What if a 21st driver takes part in a race; how does that affect the transfer point costs? In that scenario, the 21st driver would, by virtue of being bottom of the WDC standings, have a value of 1 point. Every other position in the WDC would therefore see its value increased by 1 transfer point, so 1st in the WDC would cost 21 points, 2nd in the WDC would cost 20 points, and so on down to 20th, who would now cost 2 transfer points. What if two new drivers take part in the season from the same race? We would extend the scoring as above, just by two places this time. In terms of how the values of those two drivers would be determined, as I assume neither would be officially ranked in the WDC standings until they had taken part in a race, whichever was officially confirmed for their season debut first would be deemed to be higher in the WDC standings and therefore would cost the additional transfer point.

Teams group 1: Mercedes; Ferrari; Red BullTeams group 2: Williams; Force India; Toro Rosso; RenaultTeams group 3: McLaren; Haas; Sauber Please select one team from each of the five groups.

Team name:(you can leave this blank if you wish and I'll just use your PF1 username as your team name)Sex:(I'm asking this as in my write-ups last year, I quickly realised I couldn't presume his/her and instead had to refer to 'their team', 'their selections', etc., which felt a little weird. So if you're happy to disclose your gender then that would help my write-up a little. Obviously not everyone is so it's cool if you don't want to. Oh and 'yes please' isn't a valid answer here!

You are free to make any changes to your team between now and FP1 in Melbourne. However, please try and make a new post rather than editing your original post as while I will review all submissions once FP1 begins, it is easier for me to keep track of changes that way.

All entries must be in before the start of FP1 in Australia; any entries after that will not be accepted.

Thanks Jenson's Understeer - I enjoyed it last year, so I'll be to first to enter my team.

With the transfer system - to avoid everyone just changing to the same team, perhaps there should be a bonus for not transferring? Maybe at the end of the season, unused transfer points (or multiples of) should be added to your score?

With the transfer system - to avoid everyone just changing to the same team, perhaps there should be a bonus for not transferring? Maybe at the end of the season, unused transfer points (or multiples of) should be added to your score?

Jezza13 wrote:

I like Herbs idea re the transfer system. Should throw another variable into the mix.

I like it as well, but I would have to do something about inactive managers. Anyone who signs up but doesn't return to the thread is going to gain 45 points (assuming one bonus point per unused transfer point) just by being inactive. The way around that seems to be keeping a tab on activity and deeming anyone who hasn't made a post in the thread for three races as 'inactive', and adding a rule that a manager who is labeled inactive will not receive any bonus transfer points until they actively participate in the thread again. I might even go as far as to say a manager who has been labeled inactive for a total ten or more races becomes ineligible for any bonus points. Otherwise we could get someone reappearing with a race or two left having been inactive all year.

One other change I'd considered making for this year, which I'm now considering again as an option in light of the bonus point idea, is to change the way the overall scoring works. So instead of your overall score simply being the total number of points you score, we would award points for each race based on the results for that race. So if we had 15 teams, the highest scorer at each race would receive 25 points, second would receive 22 points, third 19 points, etc., all the way down to one point for whoever finished 15th. Does that sound like a good idea, or is it better to simply continue the system we had last year whereby the points your selections score at a race are the points you receive?

With the transfer system - to avoid everyone just changing to the same team, perhaps there should be a bonus for not transferring? Maybe at the end of the season, unused transfer points (or multiples of) should be added to your score?

Jezza13 wrote:

I like Herbs idea re the transfer system. Should throw another variable into the mix.

I like it as well, but I would have to do something about inactive managers. Anyone who signs up but doesn't return to the thread is going to gain 45 points (assuming one bonus point per unused transfer point) just by being inactive. The way around that seems to be keeping a tab on activity and deeming anyone who hasn't made a post in the thread for three races as 'inactive', and adding a rule that a manager who is labeled inactive will not receive any bonus transfer points until they actively participate in the thread again. I might even go as far as to say a manager who has been labeled inactive for a total ten or more races becomes ineligible for any bonus points. Otherwise we could get someone reappearing with a race or two left having been inactive all year.

One other change I'd considered making for this year, which I'm now considering again as an option in light of the bonus point idea, is to change the way the overall scoring works. So instead of your overall score simply being the total number of points you score, we would award points for each race based on the results for that race. So if we had 15 teams, the highest scorer at each race would receive 25 points, second would receive 22 points, third 19 points, etc., all the way down to one point for whoever finished 15th. Does that sound like a good idea, or is it better to simply continue the system we had last year whereby the points your selections score at a race are the points you receive?

I think you might be starting to over complicate things - I think the scoring system in your OP was fine, just maybe with the addition of adding unused transfer points

So, we're not just going to suck it and see? In that case, here's my two cents.

- The 25 + 20 possible transfer points seem too generous to me.- Shouldn't the better team and driver groups have a higher cost in terms of transfer points than the weaker groups?- Herb's suggestion looks good to me. I would not worry about inactive managers. Surely, the cost of not changing any drivers/teams throughout the season is much higher. Besides, incorporating thread activity into the scoring system, that's going to be very slippery grounds.- I take it you ditched the idea of a cool down system per driver/team group that you were toying with, then? - A different alternative would be to allow two (or three) changes per group over the course of the season, so 16 (or 24) in total. No transfer points system needed.- As for the suggestion of relative scoring based on ranking, I don't think that would be an improvement. It takes away some of the inpredictability.

I know you're not going to make changes to the group selections now, but I'm not sure that having fewer, larger groups will lead to more variation in choices, as you say. After all, there are fewer choices to be made now. And some drivers just won't get picked. For instance, if driver group 1 was Hamilton/Vettel and driver group 2 was Bottas/Raikkonen/Ricciardo/Verstappen, that would lead to more variation than the one pick out of the six drivers we have now.

- Transfer SystemI think 25 points is too much for a starting base, at least with the current costs. With our current calendar that's more points than it's possible to spend on drivers alone, and it seems likely more people will make driver changes than team changes. I would propose as a quick fix that the cost to change might be based on group - altering a group one selection could cost 5 points, then 4 for G#2 and so on and so forth. With only three groups of team, they might go 9, 6, 3 for example. I think it's important that the transfer pool / cost ratio is high enough that there needs to be a strategic element in making too many transfers - otherwise I suspect that, as you fear, the teams will all end up looking very similar. And from your point of view, people will probably make transfers at every race, which might get confusing!

Herb's idea of giving the unused pool as points is something that also occurred to me as I was reading the OP. It would give people an incentive to hold on to their starting picks and help cut down on potential homogenization of the grid. Another similar idea that occurred to me is to give posters a (probably small) bonus for each selection they never changed throughout the season, which would also reward good initial selections. It would however give a potentially powerful advantage to anyone who isn't active in the thread; last year that might have been enough to give Hamilton_Jar the win, for example. So the bonus points - if any - would need to be balanced to be lower than the expected return for good transfer management.

- Position-based ScoringI'm heavily in favor of this. In my opinion positional scoring enhances the competition by putting one's destiny in one's own hands, and makes the championship battle more exciting. However, I realize from when this has been brought up in the Pick 10 competition that not everyone agrees with me (to put it mildly! ) so I do understand if scoring stays the way it is. I will happily present more arguments in favor of positional scoring if given the opportunity, however.

My selections, which I will hopefully not come to regret quite as much as I did last season's, despite taking only one or two less risks on some areas (albeit more risks in others)! At least in theory this year I can do something about if I can see I'm crashing and burning.

Drivers group 1: Kimi Raikkonen (why not start off with a big gamble?)Drivers group 2: Felipe MassaDrivers group 3: Carlos SainzDrivers group 4: Fernando AlonsoDrivers group 5: Romain Grosjean

Teams group 1: Ferrari (it... it will work out this season! )Teams group 2: Force IndiaTeams group 3: McLaren

Team name: Phoenix Racing*Sex: Eh, I got no problem being referred to as "they".

* Which will become somewhat ironic if I do just as badly this season, but if that's so, I may as well go for it!

- Shouldn't the better team and driver groups have a higher cost in terms of transfer points than the weaker groups?

I know you're not going to make changes to the group selections now, but I'm not sure that having fewer, larger groups will lead to more variation in choices, as you say. After all, there are fewer choices to be made now. And some drivers just won't get picked. For instance, if driver group 1 was Hamilton/Vettel and driver group 2 was Bottas/Raikkonen/Ricciardo/Verstappen, that would lead to more variation than the one pick out of the six drivers we have now.

Exediron wrote:

- Transfer SystemI think 25 points is too much for a starting base, at least with the current costs. With our current calendar that's more points than it's possible to spend on drivers alone, and it seems likely more people will make driver changes than team changes. I would propose as a quick fix that the cost to change might be based on group - altering a group one selection could cost 5 points, then 4 for G#2 and so on and so forth. With only three groups of team, they might go 9, 6, 3 for example. I think it's important that the transfer pool / cost ratio is high enough that there needs to be a strategic element in making too many transfers - otherwise I suspect that, as you fear, the teams will all end up looking very similar. And from your point of view, people will probably make transfers at every race, which might get confusing!

Gauging the groups is definitely the toughest aspect of the game to perfect because whether we have larger groups or smaller groups, if there is one option in them that is better then the chances are most people will gravitate towards that driver/team. I feel like I have to at least keep the drivers from the same team in the same group, because if I put Hamilton and Bottas in two different groups and it turns out the Merc is actually six tenths of a second faster, you then end up with two groups where most would select the Merc driver.

But... this has given me another idea. What if, rather than saying any transfer in group 1 is x points, any transfer in group two is x-1 points, etc., we had a system whereby the highest scoring driver/team in each group was the most expensive, with the lowest scoring driver/team in each group costing the least. So let's say Australia finishes Hamilton - Bottas - Vettel - Raikkonen - Ricciardo - Verstappen, the cost to transfer each of those six drivers after Melbourne would be as follows:

If Bottas then won the second race with Hamilton DNF'ing, he would become the highest scoring driver in group 1 and therefore the most expensive to transfer. That system would apply to each group, so the highest scoring driver in group two would be the most expensive. Team groups would have to be twice as expensive to reflect the fact that they'll score twice as many points.

Does that sound like a good plan? Too complicated? I feel like any changes should be sorted by Monday so I can PM those who have already submitted selections and they can adjust them if they wish.

I think that sounds like an entirely reasonable way to deal with the scoring, provided that you're willing to deal with keeping track of it all. It is somewhat complicated, and you'll certainly need to post the current values of the drivers and teams after each race so that people can make the decision to transfer to a certain driver or team or not, but it should reward having a good initial slate and make it so that people can't just all change to the best performing teams and drivers.

But... this has given me another idea. What if, rather than saying any transfer in group 1 is x points, any transfer in group two is x-1 points, etc., we had a system whereby the highest scoring driver/team in each group was the most expensive, with the lowest scoring driver/team in each group costing the least. So let's say Australia finishes Hamilton - Bottas - Vettel - Raikkonen - Ricciardo - Verstappen, the cost to transfer each of those six drivers after Melbourne would be as follows:

If Bottas then won the second race with Hamilton DNF'ing, he would become the highest scoring driver in group 1 and therefore the most expensive to transfer. That system would apply to each group, so the highest scoring driver in group two would be the most expensive. Team groups would have to be twice as expensive to reflect the fact that they'll score twice as many points.

Does that sound like a good plan? Too complicated? I feel like any changes should be sorted by Monday so I can PM those who have already submitted selections and they can adjust them if they wish.

A way to maybe simplify this a little, would be to tie the transfer cost to the WDC ranking regardless of driver groups. The driver who tops the WDC would cost 20 points to put in your team. The driver who is last in the WDC ranking would only cost 1 point. In that system the total number of driver transfer points available could be 100. That's enough to make 10 midfield driver swaps over the course of the season, or probably 6 top driver swaps.

For the constructors', you could either have a separate transfer cost pool with, say, 50 points (no.1 team costs 10 points to swap in, no. 10 team 1 point). Or combine it with the drivers' in one big transfer points pool of, say, 200 points, where team swaps are double the cost of a driver swap.

I think that sounds like an entirely reasonable way to deal with the scoring, provided that you're willing to deal with keeping track of it all. It is somewhat complicated, and you'll certainly need to post the current values of the drivers and teams after each race so that people can make the decision to transfer to a certain driver or team or not, but it should reward having a good initial slate and make it so that people can't just all change to the best performing teams and drivers.

Of course. Whatever way we go is going to be more work for me than in 2016, as last year all I had to do was add the joker points to the overall total whereas this year I'll have to update the spreadsheet with whatever transfers are made.

TypingChicane wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:

But... this has given me another idea. What if, rather than saying any transfer in group 1 is x points, any transfer in group two is x-1 points, etc., we had a system whereby the highest scoring driver/team in each group was the most expensive, with the lowest scoring driver/team in each group costing the least. So let's say Australia finishes Hamilton - Bottas - Vettel - Raikkonen - Ricciardo - Verstappen, the cost to transfer each of those six drivers after Melbourne would be as follows:

If Bottas then won the second race with Hamilton DNF'ing, he would become the highest scoring driver in group 1 and therefore the most expensive to transfer. That system would apply to each group, so the highest scoring driver in group two would be the most expensive. Team groups would have to be twice as expensive to reflect the fact that they'll score twice as many points.

Does that sound like a good plan? Too complicated? I feel like any changes should be sorted by Monday so I can PM those who have already submitted selections and they can adjust them if they wish.

A way to maybe simplify this a little, would be to tie the transfer cost to the WDC ranking regardless of driver groups. The driver who tops the WDC would cost 20 points to put in your team. The driver who is last in the WDC ranking would only cost 1 point. In that system the total number of driver transfer points available could be 100. That's enough to make 10 midfield driver swaps over the course of the season, or probably 6 top driver swaps.

For the constructors', you could either have a separate transfer cost pool with, say, 50 points (no.1 team costs 10 points to swap in, no. 10 team 1 point). Or combine it with the drivers' in one big transfer points pool of, say, 200 points, where team swaps are double the cost of a driver swap.

That could work, and is probably more straightforward than what I'd suggested as well! Although I think I'd keep one overall transfer points pool rather than having two separate ones (it simplifies it a little from my perspective). Also, if we started with 200 transfer points each, I would do away with any additional points being earned by not making a transfer, but I would keep Herb's suggestion that unused transfer points are added to the overall scores at the end of the season.

So to recap, what is proposed is the following:

- Everyone starts with 200 transfer points to use as they wish.- A driver's transfer value is dictated by their standing in the WDC. Whichever driver is first in the WDC costs 20 points to transfer; the driver in 2nd costs 19 points to transfer; the driver in 3rd costs 18 points to transfer; and so on down to the driver in 20th, who costs just 1 point to transfer.- A team's transfer value is dictated by their standing in the WCC. Whichever team is first in the WCC costs 40 points to transfer; the team in 2nd costs 36 points to transfer; and so on down to the team in 10th, which costs 4 points to transfer. - You do not receive any additional transfer points over the season. - At the end of the season, any transfer points you have remaining will be added as a bonus to your overall score.

I'll keep the inactive rule as 200 points could make a huge difference in the standings.

I'm also wondering if it would be a good idea to put a freeze on transfers until after the third race of the season? That would mean the initial picks have a little more meaning whilst also preventing a situation whereby a driver who is massively out of position after the first race or two isn't ridiculously cheap as a result. For example, Ferrari have the fastest car but Vettel fails to finish either the first two races and languishes down in 18th in the WDC after China, therefore only costing 3 transfer points. Yay/nay?

I think that sounds like an entirely reasonable way to deal with the scoring, provided that you're willing to deal with keeping track of it all. It is somewhat complicated, and you'll certainly need to post the current values of the drivers and teams after each race so that people can make the decision to transfer to a certain driver or team or not, but it should reward having a good initial slate and make it so that people can't just all change to the best performing teams and drivers.

Of course. Whatever way we go is going to be more work for me than in 2016, as last year all I had to do was add the joker points to the overall total whereas this year I'll have to update the spreadsheet with whatever transfers are made.

TypingChicane wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:

But... this has given me another idea. What if, rather than saying any transfer in group 1 is x points, any transfer in group two is x-1 points, etc., we had a system whereby the highest scoring driver/team in each group was the most expensive, with the lowest scoring driver/team in each group costing the least. So let's say Australia finishes Hamilton - Bottas - Vettel - Raikkonen - Ricciardo - Verstappen, the cost to transfer each of those six drivers after Melbourne would be as follows:

If Bottas then won the second race with Hamilton DNF'ing, he would become the highest scoring driver in group 1 and therefore the most expensive to transfer. That system would apply to each group, so the highest scoring driver in group two would be the most expensive. Team groups would have to be twice as expensive to reflect the fact that they'll score twice as many points.

Does that sound like a good plan? Too complicated? I feel like any changes should be sorted by Monday so I can PM those who have already submitted selections and they can adjust them if they wish.

A way to maybe simplify this a little, would be to tie the transfer cost to the WDC ranking regardless of driver groups. The driver who tops the WDC would cost 20 points to put in your team. The driver who is last in the WDC ranking would only cost 1 point. In that system the total number of driver transfer points available could be 100. That's enough to make 10 midfield driver swaps over the course of the season, or probably 6 top driver swaps.

For the constructors', you could either have a separate transfer cost pool with, say, 50 points (no.1 team costs 10 points to swap in, no. 10 team 1 point). Or combine it with the drivers' in one big transfer points pool of, say, 200 points, where team swaps are double the cost of a driver swap.

That could work, and is probably more straightforward than what I'd suggested as well! Although I think I'd keep one overall transfer points pool rather than having two separate ones (it simplifies it a little from my perspective). Also, if we started with 200 transfer points each, I would do away with any additional points being earned by not making a transfer, but I would keep Herb's suggestion that unused transfer points are added to the overall scores at the end of the season.

So to recap, what is proposed is the following:

- Everyone starts with 200 transfer points to use as they wish.- A driver's transfer value is dictated by their standing in the WDC. Whichever driver is first in the WDC costs 20 points to transfer; the driver in 2nd costs 19 points to transfer; the driver in 3rd costs 18 points to transfer; and so on down to the driver in 20th, who costs just 1 point to transfer.- A team's transfer value is dictated by their standing in the WCC. Whichever team is first in the WCC costs 40 points to transfer; the team in 2nd costs 36 points to transfer; and so on down to the team in 10th, which costs 4 points to transfer. - You do not receive any additional transfer points over the season. - At the end of the season, any transfer points you have remaining will be added as a bonus to your overall score.

I'll keep the inactive rule as 200 points could make a huge difference in the standings.

I'm also wondering if it would be a good idea to put a freeze on transfers until after the third race of the season? That would mean the initial picks have a little more meaning whilst also preventing a situation whereby a driver who is massively out of position after the first race or two isn't ridiculously cheap as a result. For example, Ferrari have the fastest car but Vettel fails to finish either the first two races and languishes down in 18th in the WDC after China, therefore only costing 3 transfer points. Yay/nay?

Sounds good to me - although I would stick to 100 points and still not add any after each race - points then need to be used carefully!

Sounds good to me - although I would stick to 100 points and still not add any after each race - points then need to be used carefully!

And I agree on only allowing transfers after the 3rd race!

Personally, I think 100 would be a little on the low side. Assuming Merc/Red Bull/Ferrari are the top three in the WCC, it'd cost at least 32 points to make a change in that team group. I know it would promote more consideration with what transfers were made but having one transfer potentially swallow up 40% of someone's transfer points is too much. 150 might be a more reasonable amount; that could allow a couple of expensive driver/team moves and still afford some smaller ones, too. 200, meanwhile, would potentially promote more activity, more opportunity to take risks (possibly allowing people to make changes for a single race) whilst also providing more of a bonus for those who make less changes.

I take it that points for the chosen constructors are calculated by adding the points of both drivers according to the revised scoring, not by taking the team ranking of a race and then giving them points according to that ranking.

I take it that points for the chosen constructors are calculated by adding the points of both drivers according to the revised scoring, not by taking the team ranking of a race and then giving them points according to that ranking.

Happy with the new rules for this season, particularly the scoring incorporating the whole grid.

The only thing I question for the transfer system is bumping up the costs if new drivers join the championship. I don't fundamentally disagree with it, as I think it's interesting to see further fluctuation, especially as driver changes become more likely the longer the season goes on, and by that stage, gaps between teams become more apparent. Hence, since you're more aware of the car and driver performance, any transfer can be better judged and thus could be expected to cost you more than at the start of the season.

But by the same logic, it could limit transfers late in the season a bit arbitrarily, to the amount of just a few points. I say this because in normal circumstances these days, we only see changes based on injuries and sponsorship money drying up - the first type of change could be enforced by any team but the second is likely to only affect the team towards the back of the grid anyway. Let's say there's a freak accident in one of the early races, and several drivers have to sit out one race each due to injury (5/6). It would then seem unnecessarily for the drivers towards the top of the standings to have accrued an additional 5 or 6 transfer points, but worse, those extra points carry over for all remaining races. Similarly, if Sauber really are off the pace of the all the other teams as they've looked in testing (and Macca can actually finish races), and then for some reason, they start drafting in new drivers, it feels a bit weird that those drivers at the back of the grid who'd likely not be transferred in, cause inflation for all other drivers.

I realise the hypotheticals are extreme, but alongside the threat of inactivity being rewarded too much and keeping the transfer costs simple, would you consider keeping the costs static for 1st-20th and maintaining a transfer cost of 1 for any driver ranked lower than 20th?

Just to clarify ahead of the season, since it's not clear to me from the rules as written: what is the limit on transfers in a given weekend? Is it 1 transfer of any type per weekend (after Bahrain)? 1 driver and 1 team? No limit?

I know we discussed that, but I don't see it actually spelled out in the starting post. Or maybe I'm just tired and it's actually there...

Just to clarify ahead of the season, since it's not clear to me from the rules as written: what is the limit on transfers in a given weekend? Is it 1 transfer of any type per weekend (after Bahrain)? 1 driver and 1 team? No limit?

I know we discussed that, but I don't see it actually spelled out in the starting post. Or maybe I'm just tired and it's actually there...

Quote:

- Everyone starts with 200 transfer points to use however they wish.

I will, however, edit this to be a little more explicit and avoid any doubt!

- A transfer will be considered final when a race weekend begins (when FP1 goes green). Like last year, a transfer can be requested in advance of a race weekend but cancelled before the weekend begins. However, this must be done in a separate post stating that you now wish to cancel that transfer. Deleting the original post will not be considered a withdrawal of a transfer request because I'm unable to see when posts are deleted (and therefore it would be open to abuse).

I will, like last year, quote reply any transfer requests I see. However, in the event that I don't get online to do that, I don't want a situation whereby somebody requests a transfer, the driver they asked to transfer in crashes at the start of FP1, and they then subtly delete their post in the hope it has gone unnoticed!

Hello and welcome to the first post-race update in this year's Group Pick'em competition. For those who are new to the game this year, you might be unaware of the format I use in the write-ups. Rather than just posting the scores, I like to go into a little more detail about the finishing order for the race, as well as scattering in some relevant statistics and other bits of information to try and paint a better picture of how everyone ended up where they did. For this year, we'll have a race-by-race look at the transfers that have been made, as well as the impact that has on each participant's remaining transfer points. In general, I try to keep it lighthearted, if only because my own team's performance tends to be so woeful that if I actually started taking it seriously, I might be too busy curled up into a ball to actually post these updates! We've also got some new graphical headers this year, which I spent literally minutes designing in Photoshop, something I believe now makes me qualified to design the next McLaren livery...

However, before we go any further, let's have a recap on this year's runners and riders, as well as a closer look at which drivers/teams were the most popular.

As promised, a closer look at which drivers/teams were the more heavily selected:

- In Driver Group 1, Lewis Hamilton was the heavy favourite as no fewer than eight of our 12 participants opted for the man who started the year as the title favourite. Intriguingly, selections of the two Ferrari drivers were split 50/50, with two managers opting for Seb and two going for Kimi. Nobody selected Bottas, Ricciardo or Verstappen.- In Driver Group 2, only two of the four options were picked. Seven people opted for the not-so-retired Felipe Massa, with the other five managers each going for his old Mexican adversary. Nobody took a punt on either of their inexperienced teammates; will that change as the year progresses?- Driver Group 3 again saw only two of the four options taken. Eight managers were wooed by Renault recruit Nico Hulkenberg, whilst the other four went for potential Renault recruit Carlos Sainz.- Driver Group 4 was an all-McLaren affair and we once again saw an eight/four split, this time in the favour of Fernando Alonso. - Driver Group 5 saw the single highest selected driver in Romain Grosjean, who no fewer than nine managers went for. His new teammate, Kevin Magnussen, won over three managers, while both Sauber drivers went untouched.- Team Group 1 followed the lead of Driver Group 1, with seven managers going for the Silver Arrows of Mercedes and another four deciding Ferrari's pre-season form was as quick as their times suggested. This was also the only group in which a selection was taken by just one manager as Jezza13 picked Red Bull. - Team Group 2 has an intriguing twist in that although more people picked Felipe Massa than Sergio Perez (seven to five) the reverse is true of the team selections, with Force India favoured by seven picks to five over Williams. Does this suggest that, at least amongst Group Pick'em participants, the belief is that Massa is going to score more points than Perez but the Perez/Ocon combination will outscore Massa and Stroll?- Team Group 3 again saw Sauber completely neglected as eight Haas selections were made, with four managers taking a risk that McLaren's pre-season troubles wouldn't continue once the racing got underway.

Podium Finishers

...yes, I know it is spelt champagne. And in case there is any doubt, as much as the drivers have been bulking up for the faster cars, that isn't actually Sebastian Vettel's body. What is without doubt, however, is that the first race of 2017 has delivered us a first-time Group Pick'em winner! That's right: after a season spent slipping closer and closer to the bottom of the standings, Exediron has kicked off 2017 with a bang by climbing onto the top step of the Group Pick'em podium for the first time. What I can only assume is a strong score of 171 was helped by being one of just two entrants to select Sebastian Vettel (35 points), and the only person to have both Vettel and Ferrari (another 57 points) in his team. Felipe Massa also contributed 18 points, while avoiding picking Romain Grosjean (just 1 point as the first retiree) and selecting McLaren over Haas (15 points to 7) also helped. This is what happens when you avoid making the same selections as Jenson's Understeer!

Joining Exediron on the podium was another manager who had a woeful 2016. In fact, Remmirath had the most woeful 2016 as Ferrari's failure to deliver on their pre-season promise caught Remmirath out more than anyone. Undeterred, Phoenix Racing again put their faith in both Ferrari and Kimi Raikkonen, collecting a combined 79 of their 161 points courtesy of the Scuderia. Other strong weekends came from Felipe Massa, Carlos Sainz (14 points), Force India (27 points) and McLaren. Despite their only being three steps on the podium, we had a total of four managers spraying the champagne as two teams tied for third. Fountoukos13, having managed just a single podium in 2016, equals that in the first event with a score of 160 points, while debutant mcdo gets off to a strong start by steering Uncle Ron's Retirement Rodeo to third place. Despite both going in very different directions with their selections, they were each just a single point from sneaking into second. Fountoukos13 scored the majority of their points courtesy of Raikkonen, Ferrari and Force India (22, 57 and 27 points respectively) while Uncle Ron's Retirement Rodeo bagged 115 of their 160 points through Vettel, Mercedes and Force India.

2017's new scoring system led to what was, generally, quite a condensed field. Of the twelve teams, the gap between second and eleventh was a mere 13 points, suggesting we could be in for a rather close season. The best of the rest, so to speak, in the opening race of the season was Mayhem's self-titled team, who collected 157 points to narrowly miss out on the podium. They were closely followed by Peter McG.'s Bootleg Honda Racing; very closely followed, in fact, as Peter McG's team collected 156 points. Also in the 150s were Icemanjee1 and theferret. Both scored 152 points to start the year off with a solid performance. One team so far conspicuous in its absence? 2016's dominant force, Herb. His newly christened The Champions stuttered out of the blocks in 2017, registering a 148-point performance that was only prevented being the weekend's worst score by Jezza13's Grid Fillers. Coincidentally, the only two identical teams we've got so far in 2017 are those of Jenson's Understeer and Herb. 2016 saw Exediron struggle all year having made the same selections as Jenson's Understeer. I guess this is what happens when you don't avoid making the same selections as Jenson's Understeer!

Everyone still has 200 transfer points remaining as transfers won't begin until after Bahrain. After Bahrain, I'll post the current transfer costs of every driver/team here, as well as the total number of points each driver/team has scored in this game. With the new scoring system, it won't correspond with the WDC/WCC points so that information will actually be quite important! For now, please use this handy link for a full list of the points each driver/team scored in Australia. It is of course too early to read too much into it, but if we were to do so, Sauber outscoring Haas (and only just getting outscored by McLaren) is interesting. Could Sauber be slow but reliable, and pick up decent enough points across the season to make themselves a legitimate option in Team Group 3? Vandoorne outscores Alonso, too, despite being nowhere all weekend while Fernando seemed destined to drag his car to an unlikely points finish. Again, could reliability sway that in the favour of Vandoorne?

Talking of Alonso, just marvel at how naturally his head fits onto Bottas' race suit...

What a difference a few months makes. When I last posted the overall standings, Exediron was 13th while Remmirath was 14th and last overall. Fast-forward a couple of months and they proudly sit 1st and 2nd. Both our debutants sit in the top half of the table, while The Champions find themselves kept off the bottom only thanks to The Grid Fillers. Still, if all this change feels a little foreign then you can take solace in Jenson's Understeer still being right near the bottom of the standings. I guess some things never change (unfortunately)!

The Chinese grand prix saw something of a return to normality as Lewis Hamilton took his first victory of the year. His main rival, Sebastian Vettel, was left to fight through the frontrunners after some misfortune with the timing of a safety car, while Red Bull had a stronger weekend than expected to round out the top four. In the Group Pick'em, could Exediron follow on from his victory in Australia, or will the second race of the season bring us a second winner? Well...

Podium Finishers

...the answer is a resounding no: no, Exediron couldn't make it two victories from two races. In fact, after taking victory at the first round, it was to be an afternoon to forget for Exediron who finished last of all twelve entrants. And in an ironic twist, the man who finished last in Australia is our race winner in China, as Jezza13 posts a 172-point score to claim his first victory of 2017. Big contributions towards that score came from Lewis Hamilton (35 points), Carlos Sainz (16 points) as well as Force India (23 points) and Haas (24 points). 172 points also represents our highest score of this still very young season. So congratulations to The Grid Fillers for becoming The Grid Beaters!

After a strong debut in Australia, mcdo's 'Uncle Ron's Retirement Rodeo' went one better in China, taking second place and missing out on the victory by the narrowest of margins. However, mcdo wasn't the only man standing on the second step of the podium. Joining him with a 171 point score was TypingChicane & The Inflatable Shark Fins. It means that mcdo is not only the only person to have finished on the podium at both races so far, but he's also had someone keeping him company on both occasions! At this rate, he'll be standing atop the podium in Bahrain, presumably with somebody else on that top step with him! Both men picked up good points from Perez, Grosjean, Mercedes, Force India and Haas, whilst splitting their DG1 and DG3 choices on Vettel/Sainz (mcdo) and Hamilton/Hulkenberg (TypingChicane).

The final place on the Chinese podium was taken by our other rookie, Peter McG. His Bootleg Honda Racing team improved on their Australian score by 3 points, with 159 points enough to take third place in China. While his driver picks not named 'Lewis Hamilton' didn't have a great race (Massa, Hulkenberg, Vandoorne and Grosjean managed just 29 points combined!) Ferrari, Force India and Haas did a lot of the heavy lifting, contributing nearly 100 points and underlining the importance of having strong team selections.

Having all opened 2017 with scores in the 150-point range, Icemanjee1, Mayhem and theferret's White Visor again put in such solid scores. Icemanjee1 headed the field with 156 points, an agonising three points from the podium, while Mayhem and theferret's teams were a single point back, both scoring 155. Our 2016 winner, Herb, had a better outing in China and scored 149 points, but his 'The Champions' team will remain alarmed at their relatively slow start to 2017. It also meant Jenson's Understeer had a less forgettable afternoon, too. But as previously mentioned, our race one winner was the big loser in China as Exediron's Infiniti Infinity Ltd. suffered a spectacular fall from grace, swapping places with Jezza13's team and scoring just 127 points.

Everyone still has 200 transfer points remaining as transfers won't begin until after Bahrain. After Bahrain, I'll post the current transfer costs of every driver/team here, as well as the total number of points each driver/team has scored in this game. With the new scoring system, it won't correspond with the WDC/WCC points so that information will actually be quite important! For now, please use this handy link for a full list of the points each driver/team scored so far in 2017.

A lot of movement at this early stage in the season. As our only entrant to finish both races in the top three, Uncle Ron's Retirement Rodeo moves up two places to take the overall lead, opening up an 11-point advantage over TypingChicane's second placed teams, who is our biggest mover, climbing seven spots. Our other rookie, Bootleg Honda Racing, is also into the top three. Mayhem, Icemanjee1 and White Visor all see their position improve in China. Of course, with so many teams moving up, there have to be some teams losing places. Those are Foutnoukos, Infiniti Infinity Ltd. and Phoenix Racing, who all tumble down the standings courtesy of poor weekends in China. The bottom six teams are split by just three points, while the overall spread of the field is only 35 points, suggesting the scoring will be a lot tighter this year than in 2016.

Having been beaten to victory in China, Ferrari (well, Sebastian Vettel) bounced back nicely in Bahrain, claiming a second win from the opening three races of the 2017 season. Would it be a similar story in the Group Pick'Em game, as having won in Australia, Exediron followed that up by finishing last of all in China. Conversely, Jezza13 posted the lowest score in Australia before winning the Chinese round. Would he make it two in a row, or would we see a third different winner from the opening three rounds?

Podium Finishers

The answer is quite simple: neither of the above happened.

Actually, that's not simple at all, but victory in Bahrain was claimed not by Jezza13, nor by Exediron, and we don't leave the Gulf state with three different winners from the opening three races. In fact, we don't even leave with four different winners from the opening three races as, quite remarkably, three different teams posted 173 point scores to claim a joint victory. In our very young history, this represents the first time a round victory has been shared, and the fact that it is between three teams makes this a very rare result indeed! But who were those three teams?

Our first winner, having shared second place in China, is TypingChicane & the Inflatable Shark Fins. Hamilton, Perez, Hulkenberg and Grosjean all produced well on the driver's side of things, while Mercedes, Force India and Haas delivered from the team's perspective. Joining TypingChicane on the top step is our first rookie winner of 2017, Peter McG.'s Bootleg Honda Racing. Largely similar picks meant that having Stoffel Vandoorne on his team gave him a six-point disadvantage to TypingChicane, who went for Fernando Alonso. However, picking Massa over Perez and Ferrari over Mercedes allowed him to recover those points to also score 173 points. But it wasn't just Peter McG. who scored victory as a rookie in Bahrain, as our third winner for the round was our other rookie, mcdo's Uncle Ron's Retirement Rodeo outfit. Points were gained by selecting Sebastian Vettel rather than Lewis Hamilton, but the same seven points were lost by plumping for Carlos Sainz rather than Nico Hulkenberg. Other slight variations gained a couple of points here but lost them elsewhere, leaving us with our first ever joint winners.

You could almost be forgotten for thinking about the other two steps on the podium! Both gave first podium finishes in 2017 to those who stood on them, as Mayhem followed our leading threesome home in second, eight points adrift with a score of 165, while our 2016 Champion Herb made a welcome return to the podium, just a single point adrift of Mayhem with 164 points. Of course, that also means Jenson's Understeer joins him on the third step by virtue of the pair having identical selections. It means that, quite remarkably, half of the teams found themselves in the top 'three'.

The sheer number of teams to fill out the podium means this section of the results are a little more sparse than usual! Our Australian winner, Infiniti Infinity Ltd. was the 'best of the rest' in Bahrain, scoring 161 points to finish fou... er, fif... wait, si... seventh. Remmirath's Phoenix Racing took eighth with 158 points, a result equaled by theferret's White Visor, who are now one of just two teams to have not registered a podium finish. Icemanjee1's team, who like theferret's haven't yet sprayed the champagne in 2017, were a further point below with 157. Meanwhile, it really does appear to be 'boom or bust' for The Grid Filler's. Having finished last in Australia and then won in China, Jezza13's team fall back to last, scoring just 136 points in the process.

Exciting news: with three races of the season now in the history books, you are now permitted to make transfers.

Each team is given 200 transfer points and is able to make as few or as many changes as they wish, whenever they wish, between now and the end of the season. Any transfers you wish to make have to be made before FP1 commences at the upcoming race weekend. Transfers can be made during the race weekend but they would only take effect at the following race weekend. A transfer will become official once FP1 commences. If you wish to cancel it, you are welcome to, but you must say so in a separate post prior to the beginning of FP1. Failure to adhere to that rule will mean your transfer is not cancelled.

Remember: any unspent transfer points will be added to your total at the end of the season, so make your choices wisely!

I will post the current driver/team points, as well as the transfer cost of each, in a separate post after this one.

Having shared the round win amongst themselves, our top three show absolutely no change. Uncle Ron's Retirement Rodeo remain 11 points ahead of TypingChicane & the Inflatable Shark Fins, who themselves are a further five clear of Bootleg Honda Racing. Mayhem's team slips a little further adrift but, having finished directly behind those three in Bahrain, remains in fourth. Icemanjee1 also retains fifth, albeit being joined by White Visor for a share of the position, while a first podium in 2017 allows The Champions and WIIN-MOOAR Racing to both climb three spots. Infiniti Infinity Ltd. and Phoenix Racing slip places for the the second race in a row, although they are now no longer on the same number of points, while the bottom two are unchanged.

As promised, here is the list of drivers, teams, their total score so far in 2017 and the amount of transfer points it will cost to transfer them into your team. They are as per their driver/team groups and in order of highest to lowest scorer within each group.

Note that as the costs are based on the WDC/WCC standings, a driver with a lower WDC ranking may actually have outscored a driver with a higher WDC using the Group Pick'Em scoring system.