Presley, Louise

ORAL HISTORY OF LOUISE PRESLEY
Interviewed by Don Hunnicutt
Filmed by BBB Communications, LLC.
September 7, 2016
MR. HUNNICUTT: This interview is for the Center for Oak Ridge Oral History. The date is September 7, 2016. I'm Don Hunnicutt, in the studio of BBB Communications, LLC., 170 Randolph Road, Oak Ridge, Tennessee, to take Louise Presley's oral history about growing up, and living in Oak Ridge. Louise, please state your full name, place of birth, and date.
MRS. PRESLEY: Louise Langston Stoddard Presley. Stoddard being my maiden name. I was born in Orangeburg, South Carolina, and I was born on August, 27, 1944.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was your father's name, place of birth, and date, if you recall.
MRS. PRESLEY: David Lowry Stoddard. He was born in Columbia, South Carolina, on March 8, 1913.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, about your mother's maiden name, place of birth, and date.
MRS. PRESLEY: Ok. My mother was Ruth Cooper Stoddard, and she was born in Orangeburg, South Carolina, and, her story is that she's an April Fool's child. She was born on April 1, 1916.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Your grandparents, on your father's side. Do you remember their place of birth, and give me their names, please.
MRS. PRESLEY: On my ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Father's side.
MRS. PRESLEY: Father's side.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I'm sorry.
MRS. PRESLEY: Ok. David’s side, James Alexander Stoddard, and Linda Toland, T-O-L-A-N-D, Stoddard.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, on your mother's side of the family.
MRS. PRESLEY: William Seabrooks Cooper, and Louise Langston Cooper. I was named after that grandmother.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me about your father's school history.
MRS. PRESLEY: My father's school history was that, he was the fourth of five children, of a professor at the University of South Carolina. So, when he got past high school, and all, he was a professor's kid, and he, actually, part of the time, lived on the Carolina campus, in a professor's home, just there off of the, the “U” on campus, at the University of South Carolina, on Sumter Street.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, what was the furthest grade of education he went through?
MRS. PRESLEY: He got a Master's degree at the University of South Carolina. He had a bachelor's in chemistry, and a Master's in chemical engineering, I believe, which led to him being an industrial hygienist at K-25, eventually.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's quite a different contrast, isn't it?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yes. He was not in World War II, actively, in the military, because he was helping Wanamaker Chemical Company, in Orangeburg, South Carolina, make a chemical supply for the war.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you know what type of chemicals they made?
MRS. PRESLEY: I do not.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about your mother's school history?
MRS. PRESLEY: High school. And, a little bit of business school, beyond that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have sisters and brothers?
MRS. PRESLEY: I have two sisters. I'm the eldest of three girls.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, what are their names?
MRS. PRESLEY: Francis Stoddard Parrett, now, and Mary Stoddard Kirkland. She lives in Memphis.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Your father, you mentioned he worked at a chemical company. What did he do after that, if anything, well, before he came to Oak Ridge, let's say that?
MRS. PRESLEY: His history, really, was before he went to work for Wanamaker Chemical. He was in the CCCs [Civilian Conservation Corps], and became a supervisor with the CCCs, and helped build state parks in South Carolina, and Oconee State Park.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you know about what year that might've been?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, he completed the CCCs when the program was closed down.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember when that program was closed down?
MRS. PRESLEY: Probably, around, 1941.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I don't know.
MRS. PRESLEY: No, it seems that it was'41, I think, because he, and Mother, were married, and he was getting ready to be moved to another place, down on the coast of South Carolina, to Walterboro. Anyway, CCC, Civilian Conservation Corps, ceased to exist, and that's when he went to work for Wanamaker Chemical.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I had the same experience, with my father, in a different location.
MRS. PRESLEY: Mom said it was ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, describe, what do you remember about the house you lived in, before you came to Oak Ridge. Or were you too young to remember?
MRS. PRESLEY: No, there were several houses that we lived in. The one I remember the most was, sort of, an Arts and Crafts style, early nineteenth century home. If you can picture that. It was a rental property, and my parents, and I, actually, went in it, probably, 15 years ago, and took pictures. It's a day care center in Orangeburg, now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that a single level house, or a ...
MRS. PRESLEY: It was.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, describe to me, a little bit, how was it, how many bedrooms was in the house.
MRS. PRESLEY: Two, and, possibly three, because it, since it'd been transformed, turned to a day care center. They have rearranged the house, so they have a big central kitchen and fireplaces.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were your sisters born at that time?
MRS. PRESLEY: No, they were born here in Oak Ridge. I was the only one born in South Carolina.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And how old were you when the family left that ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Two and a half.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... house?
MRS. PRESLEY: Daddy came to work in December of 1947, at K-25. He came home for the holidays, and Mother, and I, came back with him. Around January first...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall why he came to work here?
MRS. PRESLEY: The, the chemical job, and he went to work in the medical department at K-25, which is where they did the industrial hygiene type work. The interesting thing about him is that, he was a registered industrial hygienist, and he, his number of registrations was somewhere around 550, 550 number, and they're into a multiple 50,000, or more, now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you know what an industrial hygienist's job requirements are?
MRS. PRESLEY: As a kid, people would say, "What does your Daddy do?" And, I'd say, "He's an industrial hygienist." "What's that?" would be the next question. I said, "I don't know. He's an industrial hygienist." When I got old enough to learn more, and went to work at Y-12, as an 18-year-old, I learned more about what my dad had done, as an industrial hygienist. It's in the, the monitoring of the safety and health systems, in an industrial environment.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It's, kind of, basic take care of yourself and other people, isn't it? I mean.
MRS. PRESLEY: You've got that right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. Did your mother work?
MRS. PRESLEY: She was never employed after they were married. She was a homemaker.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where were they married?
MRS. PRESLEY: They were married in the parlor of her mom and dad's house in Orangeburg, South Carolina.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember the date of that?
MRS. PRESLEY: January 29, 1940. And, in South Carolina. It was a cold day, and they had a freeze, and the pipes froze off the wall in the bathroom.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did, you've have a lot of knowledge about your parents, back in the day. Did they talk to you during your years of growing up, to gain this knowledge? How did you gain this knowledge? Because, sometimes, that's, with me, it's lost. I have to go look at the Bible to refer to something. How've you gained all your knowledge about the days of ago, of old?
MRS. PRESLEY: I think I was born old, with deep roots in South Carolina, and in history. My grandfather was the head of the summer school, and professor of education at the University of South Carolina. So, we've always liked history, and telling a story. I have books in my library at home that got passed down through many generations in my family. The oldest is a copy of John Bunyan's, Pilgrim's Progress, hidebound, not in real good shape, but it's got a 1686 publication date, and it's been passed through the family.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, you've had a passion for history ever since you've ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Always.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... been young, and you've just been able to retain all that information.
MRS. PRESLEY: We had a good history teacher in Oak Ridge High School. Mrs. Barns? And, she fed my energy there, in, probably, eleventh grade.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall how your mother felt about moving to Oak Ridge?
MRS. PRESLEY: No. My main memory of being a child in Oak Ridge was when my two sisters came along. We lived in an A house, at 101 New York Avenue. And, there was just Mom, and Dad, and me, when we moved in. But two more little girls came, and there were, three children sleeping in that small, extra bedroom, in the A house. And, I was old enough to remember my mother crying, because we were busting at the seams. Kids didn't have as much excess to toys and clothes, and things, then, as they do now. But, because of the way housing was assigned, we, ultimately, were moved into a C house, with three bedrooms, at 195 California Avenue.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When the family first came to Oak Ridge, do you recall how they got here?
MRS. PRESLEY: Drove across the mountain before the interstate was built. We either came up through Hot Springs, or through Asheville ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: That old ...
MRS. PRESLEY: ... and Cherokee.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... 25’s a twisting highway, wasn't it.
MRS. PRESLEY: You got that right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: People think that “the dragon” down there, what they call “the dragon” is twisty, which it, it's more twisty, but that one's almost as bad as that dragon.
MRS. PRESLEY: The only time I've ever been carsick was going from Oak Ridge to Orangeburg in a pick-up truck that my dad borrowed from an old fellow, family friend in Clinton, to go pick up an upright piano for me to learn to play the piano. I had never sat up that high in a truck, and going around those curves, I was carsick by the time we got to Spartanburg.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I've experienced that many times, myself. Give me the locations of that particular town in South Carolina. What's it close to?
MRS. PRESLEY: It's about 40 miles south of Columbia, between there and Charleston.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, the second house was a C house on California, and what school did you attend, first school did you attend?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, I, probably, am one of the unique ones that got to attend multiple elementary schools. I first attended Elm Grove from kindergarten, through Christmas-time of second grade. Second grade, mid-year, we moved to California Avenue, and I got moved to Elm Grove, and I attended Elm Grove through fourth grade, with my fourth grade teacher being classmate Roger Karns’ mother, Mrs. Karns, as my teacher. Then, that was the year when all the East Village houses were opened back up, or built. They reopened Glenwood School, in East Village, so, I spent my fifth grade at East Village.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, you went to kindergarten at?
MRS. PRESLEY: Pine Valley.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Pine Valley, because you lived on New York Avenue.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And then, the first grade was Elm Grove, is that?
MRS. PRESLEY: No, no, mid-year of second grade, Elm Grove.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Ok. And, you mention about Glenwood School being reopened, that that area was full of trailers, at the time.
MRS. PRESLEY: And, flattops.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, flattops, yeah. I mean flattops, not trailers, you're correct. So, when they moved those out, they had a new housing project, and they built the ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... the type houses, and reopened Glenwood, at the time. Ok. Wanted to get it straight for the record.
MRS. PRESLEY: And, those were not rental houses. They were houses ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Right.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... you bought. When East Village was developed.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall what type of dress, attire you wore when you went to school?
MRS. PRESLEY: Always a skirt, or a dress.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It wasn't proper for girls to wear jeans, or anything like that, was it?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't think I ever wore a pair of jeans, except to a football game.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What were some of the classes that you took when you were in school? Elementary school?
MRS. PRESLEY: Elementary school. We didn't change classes back then. You, basically, had the same teacher all day, except for art, and music. And, that's one thing you can say about the arts programs in the schools, in Oak Ridge. They've always had a good one, and we had all kinds of art teachers. You did paintings and all, and then, I remember playing, not a piccolo. What do you call those little things you blow on?
MR. HUNNICUTT: A flute.
MRS. PRESLEY: Like, a little flute, in the music class. And, we'd have plays, and singing programs, at the schools.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You recall, in music, how they used to teach us about old time spiritual songs, and all different types of music, to give us a musical cultured education, I guess.
MRS. PRESLEY: From public domain, yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: But, you know, those things stick with you, in your mind. I mean, you don't hear that today. I mean, sometimes ...
MRS. PRESLEY: My favorite old timey tune is, "Old Rugged Cross."
MR. HUNNICUTT: Some of those songs today would, probably, be called racist songs, you know, but they, they, really, wasn't. Like, "Old Black Joe," and some of the other spirit, Negro spiritual songs. I mean, today's society just has changed so much, but they taught us, in school, those types of songs, and other songs, as well. You remember them teaching you Pledge Allegiance to the Flag? I think that was about the first grade, wasn't it? Or somewhere in that range.
MRS. PRESLEY: Said it every day, to start the day. Roll call, and pledge.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The teacher always, did, in your class. Did the teacher have you set in a particular spot, or did you, could sit wherever you wanted to?
MRS. PRESLEY: You had assigned seats.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I remember when we got to high school, they'd put a boy, girl, boy, girl, boy, girl. They didn't let boys and girls crowd up together, I guess, to keep people from ...
MRS. PRESLEY: And the ones that didn't behave as well, had to sit up front.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, I set up front. (laughs) What about physical education, in the elementary school, when you went. What do you remember about that?
MRS. PRESLEY: I remember having it, I think, every day? You had your reading, writing, and arithmetic in the homeroom teacher's class. But then, you did the other, and, Phys. Ed. was good. I remember more about Phys. Ed. being in junior high school, Jefferson, with Coach Orlando, and Bobbie Smith being the teachers.
MR. HUNNICUTT: There's something that came across my mind the other day, and I’ll ask you this, and see if you recall this. And, it may have just been at Woodland, I don't know. Some school year, I guess, it was the health department came, and they checked boys' and girls' spines. I mean, to see whether or not, I think this was the case, to see whether or not you had a ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Scoliosis?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes. And, I remember that, of course, they kept the girls and the boys separated, because they had to look at their backs, our backs, and, it seems like to me, there was something, like, they put little white mark, maybe, like shoe polish, or something, on your back, and took a picture, or something? Do you ever recall anything like that?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember that. No.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Maybe I had a science fiction dream of that. No ...
MRS. PRESLEY: The medical thing about school that I remember the most is, you and I came through the years of polio, and we had classmates with polio.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, this may've been related to that. I don't know. I need to try to find that out from somebody. Maybe, some of our former classmates would know that.
MRS. PRESLEY: But, it wasn't just the children. There were adults. My Sunday school teacher, at First Presbyterian, had polio. And, he got through it, and then, I saw in The Oak Ridger that he had a, his second bout of polio.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your parents keep a lot of things from you, like, maybe, how serious polio was, or any other things that? Today's society is just wide open with information. But, do you recall that?
MRS. PRESLEY: Communications weren't quite as open between parent and child then, as they are now. Now days, you have to be two steps ahead of them. (laughs)
MR. HUNNICUTT: They didn't seem to want us to know much about anything, except getting up, going to school, and certain things. And, other than that...
MRS. PRESLEY: And, you ate what was on the table.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. And, did what they told you to do.
MRS. PRESLEY: I, I have an eating story. I didn't like eggs. One morning, Mother fixed my egg for breakfast, and went to the back of the house. And, when she came back, the egg was gone. She knew it wouldn't've been gone that fast. I had carefully wrapped it up in a piece of paper towel, and put it on top of the garbage. She lifted the garbage can lid and looked in it, and found it, and she got it out, and made me eat it. (laughs) I had protected it. If I'd just thrown in there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were your parents strict on you?
MRS. PRESLEY: Very. I received spankings.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, we all did. That was the way of punishment.
MRS. PRESLEY: And, it was, you know, do as I say, not as I do, and you didn't ask questions.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The thing I hated was, you had to go pick the switch to be switched with, and those ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Or else, Dad went to the, he, we never was injured, but the belt was used sometimes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Oh, yeah.
MRS. PRESLEY: So. The switching I remember is if you got out of line with my grandmother, my namesake. She would make me go out and get a switch in the yard, and I can still see those skinny little fingers stripping the leaves off a switch. And, usually, it was used around your ankles.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Boy, it hurt bad down there, didn't it? (laughter)
MRS. PRESLEY: It didn't do any damage, but it sure did put a little burn.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Made you jump off your feet, too, didn't it? What was the next school you attended after elementary school?
MRS. PRESLEY: Jefferson Junior High School.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, where was it located?
MRS. PRESLEY: Up on Kentucky, I believe, right at the Blankenship Football Field location, on the hill. It'd been the original Oak Ridge High School.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What'd you notice different, when you attended Jefferson, than the elementary school you came to, from?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, for a kid, it was much more public. It was a different era, for me. I went through junior high school as the heavy girl. And, that made a difference, you know. That's, was, probably, my first feeling of peer pressure. It was much broader than being in a school with a community of, basically, neighbors, and friends. It made you a little more worldly. That was the basis.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let's go back to elementary, for a minute. I have a question. How many students do you recall being in your class?
MRS. PRESLEY: Over 30, I believe.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, did most of the kids get along with each other?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember single, being singled out. We had playground time every day, when the weather permitted, a little bit. And, I think, we did. Although, then, as now, there were, probably, some little cliquish groups, where your best friends played together.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have a favorite teacher in the elementary school?
MRS. PRESLEY: I loved Mrs. Karns, and my first grade teacher was Miss Bright.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was she bright?
MRS. PRESLEY: She was bright. That was, sort of, the basis of my elementary school friendships, because the first grade picture has me standing with three other classmates, that I finished high school with.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It brings up another question about elementary school. Do you recall, and it may've only been the first grade, I don't remember. But, do you recall at, I know at Woodland, they had restrooms right there. You didn't have to go down the hall, to the main restroom. Was that the case where you went? Or do you remember?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't really remember the restroom locations. The only restroom story I can really tell is my first week at Oak Ridge High School. It was two, it was two stories. On the bottom floor, the women's rest, the girls' restroom was on the far end, and the boys' was on the end closest to the office, I believe.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I know where you're going.
MRS. PRESLEY: The next, the second story, the girls' was right above there, so you could go up the stairs and be, have a boy, and girl bathroom on top of each other and, and the locations were reversed. I forgot I was on first story one day, that first week in school, and I went barreling into the restroom, and here came one of my classmates out, a male. (laughs) I said, "Oops!" and turned around and went out. (laughs)
MR. HUNNICUTT: Those things never leave your mind, do they?
MRS. PRESLEY: No, that's a snapshot in time.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, at Jefferson, how did you get back and forth to school?
MRS. PRESLEY: On the bus.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, during, let me back up, my thoughts are getting confused here. During the summertime, what did you do in between school years?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, back then, in my younger years, actually, until I was, probably, a sophomore, or junior in high school, we only had one car. My dad was in a carpool, and Mother would have a car when it wasn't his turn to, time to drive to work. Sometimes, we could ride the bus, or sometimes she would take us. I participated a little bit, in the summer programs at the elementary schools, that the city of Oak Ridge Recreation Department had. Playground-type games, and they would use the older high school students, and college students, and give them a job during the summer, to look after the children on the ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: That was a great place for kids to go. The parents could relax while they were gone.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, each school had that program, if I remember right.
MRS. PRESLEY: A lot of my summer activities, I loved to read, which is, probably, part of the love of history, and genealogy, and all. I would read five, or six books a week. So, I loved the public libraries that we had. I especially remember the one there in Jackson Square. And ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where do you remember it being located?
MRS. PRESLEY: On the corner of Kentucky, and ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tennessee.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... Tennessee.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, it was in the bottom. The rec hall was in the top ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... originally.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Then, it moved to the top, eventually moved to where it is now.
MRS. PRESLEY: We also had those travelling book trucks that would go.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Bookmobiles.
MRS. PRESLEY: Bookmobiles.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall the rolling stores? It was a big truck, enclosed in the back, and you were, come through the neighborhood ...
MRS. PRESLEY: I've seen ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... selling groceries, and various things.
MRS. PRESLEY: I've seen them other places. I don't remember my parents buying from them. The only thing I remember, like that, is that we had, was it Avondale Milk? Delivered to the house.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It was.
MRS. PRESLEY: And then, the ice cream trucks that would go through, selling ice cream.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Avondale and Broadacres.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I'm not sure Norris Creamery was involved in the early days, but ...
MRS. PRESLEY: My dad built a wooden box at the front door of our C house, and that was for milk, and mail.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You know, the milkman would bring you what he, you had set out.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I don't remember how you paid the milkman. Do you recall that?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember whether you left the money. I don't think you got billed back then. You probably just ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... put the money in the box for them to pick up.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, I have heard of stories where the milkman came in the house, and put it right in the refrigerator, for people.
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, I think they did that for some of them. But, my dad, evidently, didn't want that, so he built a milk box.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. (laughs) Well, Avondale was the brand we, we had, as well, and I didn't like the taste of Broadacre milk. I don't know why.
MRS. PRESLEY: Since, since the taste buds get used to a certain brand.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I guess so. Did you work any, when you were a teenager?
MRS. PRESLEY: Not for an employer, per se. I did a lot of babysitting.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How much was babysitting fees in those days?
MRS. PRESLEY: The earliest that I remember making was 35 cents an hour. If you were babysitting after midnight, it would, they would pay you 50 cents an hour. But, my best babysitting story is going to work for a couple that lived, and he was, like, a PhD at ORNL [Oak Ridge National Laboratory]. They lived in East Village, and they had one little boy. And, the mother was expecting. And, when the baby came, it was times two. So, I went from babysitting one, to babysitting three.
MR. HUNNICUTT: At the same price.
MRS. PRESLEY: And, I used to feed them by putting, when they got, got a little age on them, I would sit, put them in one of these chairs with the hole in them, and feed them this way, at the same time.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you get any more money, or was the same price?
MRS. PRESLEY: It was, I think they went up to 50 cents an hour, for two more children.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What, what do you, did the mother leave food for you to feed, or did you have to figure out what to feed them, or how did that work?
MRS. PRESLEY: No, she left food.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that baby food ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Jarred baby food.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... in those little, baby jars.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. How did you know how much to feed them?
MRS. PRESLEY: I just did. I guess, back then, if a baby quit eating, you just quit feeding. (laughter)
MR. HUNNICUTT: Back to Jefferson Junior High School. You mentioned Nick Orlando, and Bobbie Smith. Bobbie Smith was the girls' Phys. Ed. instructor.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, Nick was the boys' as well as the football coach, and everything else up there. Tell me something you remember about going to gym class at Jefferson. What do you recall?
MRS. PRESLEY: The boys had one half of the gym, and the girls had the other half, because your classes went at the same time. We did, mainly, indoor activities, as I recall. There may've been some outside, weather permitting, but it was, mainly, inside.
MR. HUNNICUTT: This was, for the record, this was where the original high school was, and ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... Jefferson moved there. So, the gym, you remember how the gym was laid out?
MRS. PRESLEY: It was, sort of, perpendicular to the ball field, is that right? Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, the bleachers ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Were toward the front door.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, you could walk in a door at the top, and you'd go sit down on the gym ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... sit down. How did they separate the boys from girls, in the gym?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, they're dressing room was on one side of the gym, and the girls' dressing room was on the other. And, that was the main separation. You just didn't go across the center line, they didn't have curtains, or anything, you just stayed on your side of the floor.
MR. HUNNICUTT: They did have a curtain.
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh, did they? I don't remember that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes. Now, how often they pulled that, I don't know. But, I remember the curtain, because when those girls was on the other side, and they'd get up next to the curtain, there's a few boys that slapped the curtain.
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh, I don't remember that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: After that, everybody lined up on the other side, and Nick Orlando used his razor paddle on all of us.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Whether we did anything or not. And, I remember that happening, and the girls would sit over there, on the other side of that curtain, and snigger at us, because we got in trouble for ...
MRS. PRESLEY: They knew you were getting paddled.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MRS. PRESLEY: Every once in a while, he'd paddle a girl, if she got out of line.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Oh, I didn't know about that, now.
MRS. PRESLEY: I have a good Orlando story, though. After Bob and I married, we wanted a kitty cat. Our first cat was a Siamese cat that came from the Orlando household.
MR. HUNNICUTT: He was a unique person. He would never survive in today's society.
MRS. PRESLEY: He wasn't real tall.
MR. HUNNICUTT: No.
MRS. PRESLEY: But he was full of might.
MR. HUNNICUTT: He really loved all the kids. He really did. Even though he, he paddled a few, and, and, I think, mainly, that was just to keep us in line, make sure we knew who was in charge.
MRS. PRESLEY: Some would disagree with me, but I think we need to go back to some of that. Prove the authority.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's like growing up in Oak Ridge. There'll never be another day like that.
MRS. PRESLEY: No.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's for sure. So, you attended Oak Ridge High School, and what did you see different when you walked into Oak Ridge High School, and started experiencing that, from Jefferson?
MRS. PRESLEY: It's very vivid to me. I went in to, I believe, it was a sophomore geography class, and there was one black young woman in the class with me. That's the first time I had ever attended a class with a black student in it. I believe Robertsville had had black students on that end of town, because of the geographical assignment, but, at Jefferson, we didn't, back then. And, my heart hurt for her, because, in my mind, I put myself in her place, and wondered how I would feel if I was the only white child in a black class. It's a very vivid memory.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, I think we all experienced that, that went to Jefferson ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... when we got to the high school, it was different. What was some of the classes you took at the high school?
MRS. PRESLEY: I can remember Biology, and pouring perfume on my frog when we had to dissect it, (laughs) and that didn't help at all. And, my Chemistry class, we were making, is it esters?
MR. HUNNICUTT: I don't know.
MRS. PRESLEY: Where you put them in a, a vial, and they boil up. Well, I had on a Banlon sweater, and it boiled over, and put, melted holes in my Banlon sweater. (laughs) I loved my history class, in eleventh grade. I took business classes. I learned how to do shorthand, and I could go up to about 140 words per minute, taking shorthand.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you take Home Ec.?
MRS. PRESLEY: I took Home Ec. in Jefferson. I think, the first year, sophomore year, at the high school, I had Mrs. - it started with an, "S". We went to school with her kids.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Struxness?
MRS. PRESLEY: Struxness.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MRS. PRESLEY: That's who it was, the teacher. But, my most memory about Home Ec., other than sewing -- I made all the clothes that I wore back then. I took my babysitting money, and bought fabric, and made my clothes. But, we had Miss Lamb, who was a spinster, taught Home Ec. at Jefferson, and the first thing she taught you how to cook was mush.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, what's that consist of?
MRS. PRESLEY: Corn meal, and water, and you mix it together and then, put it in the refrigerator and let it set, and then you cut it in slices and fry it. But, it wasn't very tasty. Now, I like grits, being from South Carolina, but it wasn't like my grits.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Wonder where she came up with that recipe.
MRS. PRESLEY: It was an old, that was a staple in old households, I'm sure.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You know, I don't recall Jefferson having Home Ec., although I wouldn't be interested in that anyway.
MRS. PRESLEY: It was upstairs, toward the office.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Speaking about ...
MRS. PRESLEY: And, you asked me about high school, but I'm reverting back to Jefferson ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... because my other Jefferson memory was being in seventh grade, in Miss Westbrook's class. Somebody brought a snake into the class. I had -- all snakes are deadly to me. I was standing at the back wall, as far as I could, at the back of the room, when they brought that big ol' snake in the class.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Joel Cunningham's mother was the seventh grade teacher, up there, at Jefferson, as well.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Speaking of, speaking of Jefferson, there was a particular individual woman, that taught music up there, at Jefferson, and had the band, and all of it. Do you remember her?
MRS. PRESLEY: Miss ... L ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Lyman?
MRS. PRESLEY: Lyman.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you ever have any classes with her?
MRS. PRESLEY: I wasn't into band, or anything like that. I was in the chorus up there, and did some singing. So, that's how I knew her.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, one thing I ask to get a, whoever may look at this interview, or listen to it, perspective how things change, you left elementary school, and you had Phys. Ed., physical education, and you wore gym shorts, and so forth, and you brought those from home. When you went to Jefferson, it was a whole different story. You still had gym shorts.
MRS. PRESLEY: But, you had to change in the shower rooms.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MRS. PRESLEY: And, that was a little bit uncomfortable, for me, because I was an earlier developing young lady.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, it was uncomfortable for boys, as well, because you're, you're looking, you're in an environment with other kids ...
MRS. PRESLEY: In the shower room.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... that you normally don't.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. And then, obviously, when you went to the high school, you had the same scenario. But, I always ask that, just to get the perspective of how it was.
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, we had been so protected at home and, to go into that public environment was part of growing up.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, yeah, it was. It's, it's a different culture shock you have to learn to live with.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: A lot of times, boys would just skip showers, they didn't get caught at it. Then, other times, we had to do it. But, that's just part of growing up, isn't it? In high school, did you attend any of the dances that they had for, for the kids?
MRS. PRESLEY: I've got pictures of all of them. I went to, I remember the dresses. I wore a pink chiffon to the first one, and then, I had a blue dress. Actually, I had a two-tone dress that I took my babysitting money, and my mother wasn't into spending a lot on clothes, so my babysitting money went for my clothes. I went to the old French Room, downtown Knoxville, at Miller's, and bought me a beautiful, strapless, floor-length gown, to wear to the junior prom. And, it had a hoop skirt under it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You were referring, talking earlier about making your clothes. Where did you buy your material in Oak Ridge, in those days?
MRS. PRESLEY: Right there, across the alleyway from Merle Norman's, at the Cloth Shop, primarily.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's in the Downtown ...
MRS. PRESLEY: We didn't have a downtown.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... area, that we call Downtown.
MRS. PRESLEY: We didn't have a Wal-Mart, or any place like that, then. I got my yarn, to knit with, at the Knitting Nook in Jackson Square. That reverts me back to another fifth grade story. My fifth grade teacher, Mrs. Gonzales, taught me how to knit, in fifth grade, at school. And, I have carried that forward today. I'm part of a prayer shawl group, and I knit and crochet at my church.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have to go grocery shopping with your mother, when you were young?
MRS. PRESLEY: We went, but we would walk to the grocery store, because 101 New York Avenue, was just doors from the Pine Valley shopping center. Then, when we moved up on California, we shopped a lot there at the, there where Glenwood Baptist Church is, now, and where the Elk's Club used to be, the shopping ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: East, East Village shopping.
MRS. PRESLEY: East, East Village Shopping Center. Or Elm Grove.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall, the family had a car, and your dad carpooled, so, I guess, the days he didn't have to drive, your mother used that ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... to run errands, and do family chores. What about your mother washing clothes. What do you remember? How did she do that?
MRS. PRESLEY: We always had a clothes washer. So, she washed them at home. But, I don't remember a dryer. We had a clothesline, out in the yard. And, that's where she hung the clothes to dry.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall the neighbors gathering at the clotheslines, and talking?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, up on California, they didn't really do that, because our house was backed up to the, what do you call it, the green space, or ... ?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Greenbelt.
MRS. PRESLEY: Greenbelt. It was, actually, up the hill from where one of those old, ‘40s-era, Boy Scout building was.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, what do you remember about that building.
MRS. PRESLEY: We visited on the front of the house, you know. Not at the clothesline, because there's was down, to the side of the house.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, that number on California, is that at the top or the bottom? Where is that?
MRS. PRESLEY: It's about four houses from the top, where it intersects with Outer Drive.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, you mentioned a Boy Scout building. Tell me about what you remember about that.
MRS. PRESLEY: It was, in my younger years, it existed, and I don't know whether it was torn down, or whether it fell down, because I'm sure it was not permanent structure, down there. But, there was a road access, that went, we were one ... between 197, and 199, California, there was an old road, that wasn't, or a walkway, that would lead down to that, in the Greenbelt area.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, that was just a building that the Scouts use.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You think.
MRS. PRESLEY: And there used to be one in the East Village, if you come up California, where that greenbelt is between California Avenue, and where East Village started, there was a Boy Scout thing over there. Near where Taylor Delaney lived.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, I, I recall the area, but I never did see that.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: As kids, you grew a, kind of, zones. You stayed in your own area ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... and neighborhood, unless you had to go out someplace.
MRS. PRESLEY: Except on Halloween, and it was a safe enough community, your parents just turned you loose on Halloween. You didn't have to walk with them, like you do now, and keep an eye on them.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What do you remember about trick or treating?
MRS. PRESLEY: I can remember starting out near the top of California Avenue, and walking all the way out Outer Drive. One year, when I was older, I went down Delaware, and up California.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's pretty steep terrain, isn't it?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, when you're young.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How long did it take you to do it?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't know, but (laughs) and that was the days before daylight savings time.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember the Y-12 whistle?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Big Toot, I think they called it?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah. I was far enough away I didn't hear it much, but my husband grew up with that in his back door.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about the civil defense sirens going off, do you remember those?
MRS. PRESLEY: Now, I do remember those.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I mean, even before they used to test them every day, at five o'clock. Before that, do you remember those going off, in the middle of the night, unexpectedly?
MRS. PRESLEY: I was such a heavy sleeper, I probably didn't hear them at night.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, well, probably I lived in an area where ...
MRS. PRESLEY: You were close to it, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... you heard it pretty good, yeah. That's pretty ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Because you were all, you were close to the plant.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, well, it's pretty startling when that goes off at two o'clock in the morning ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... and, your mother's panicking, your daddy's working, and she can't get to the radio. You supposed to turn a radio on, you know. That was the silliest thing I ever heard of, turn the radio on. They'd say, "This is a test. This is a test." But, two o'clock in the morning, there was no radio.
MRS. PRESLEY: And, now, they do it on TV. I've heard several in the last couple of days.
MR. HUNNICUTT: But, the information that the public got wasn't too good, in those days, about that kind of stuff.
MRS. PRESLEY: I, I relate those kind of sirens to the old days when people lived in houses that were close to railroad tracks, where the train came through. When, once you lived there for so long ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Never heard the train.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... you never heard them. (laughs) Got used to it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. Well, it's a memory, if you live in Oak Ridge, about the sirens. They go off on Wednesdays, I think, now, at noon ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... once a month, to check them. Did you ever ask your dad what he did at work, K-25, when you were growing up? What his work duty was?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember, really, being interested in, in the specifics of what he did. My main memory is that he was involved, or his job was under the auspices of the Medical Department, at K-25. It was a very friendly group, and they would have picnics. So, we knew the bosses, and all. I didn't really know specifically what he did, other than work in that department. My father-in-law also worked in that department, for a number of years. But, the, one of the side benefits, were that, if you had illness in the family, the doctors from K-25 would come check on your family. (laughs)
MR. HUNNICUTT: Oh, really? So, you got personal doctor service, huh?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah. My dad made homebrew, and one of them was musically talented, that moved here from Paducah. And, he'd come, and see us, and visit, and play the piano, with no music, and drink some of my dad's homebrew.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I bet the more he drink, the more he played, huh?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah. If I go too far in that direction, y'all ... (laughs)
MR. HUNNICUTT: All right. That's quite all right. That's the way it was, in the day.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah. He had a bad batch, one time, that got overheated. We went into the kitchen, and it was stored up at the top of the cabinets. They had remodeled the C house kitchen, and taken the, the furnace room, and the kitchen and put them together. It had cabinets, and he stored it up on the top, and, I guess, that's where the heat was, and where the homebrew was. It had popped the lids, and it was dripping down the cabinets. (laughs)
MR. HUNNICUTT: How did your mother handle that?
MRS. PRESLEY: We just cleaned it up.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Speaking of that C house, what do you recall about, tell me how it was designed?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, it was L-shaped, and after I married, Mother and Daddy added 12 feet onto the bedroom end, so they had a huge master bedroom on the back side, with their own private bath. The front bedroom had three or four extra feet added to it, and was enlarged with that addition. But the main thing I remember about that house is, it was built on a rock structure. My dad would set off small doses of dynamite, under the house, to fracture the big rock that was there. He would leave for work, and oldest of three girls, we had so many wheelbarrow loads that we had to carry out from under the house. We, we helped him dig the basement. The back yard used to be down, at an angle. We got enough dirt out from under that house, and rock, to build the back yard.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where did your dad get the dynamite? Do you recall?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't know.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Used to be able to go to Clinton.
MRS. PRESLEY: Probably.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I think it was ...
MRS. PRESLEY: To the Hendrickson's Hardware Store, probably.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's exactly what I was thinking about.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right along the river.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You know, that was a unique hardware.
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh, very.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You'd go in there, and they had anything, just about, and everything you ever thought of, things you didn't even know what was in there.
MRS. PRESLEY: That's where I learned what gin, ginseng was, because people would go in there, and sell ginseng to them.
MR. HUNNICUTT: They moved over in Clinton, over there, backside of where old Hammer's used to be ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... for a while, didn't they?
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: But, it never was the same store, after they moved.
MRS. PRESLEY: One of my daughter's best friend's mother worked for the Hammers. I, actually, have a cross made out of Bakelite that has Tennessee River pearls in it, that belonged to the Hendrickson family, that the friend's mother gave to me. It's a treasure.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I don't know whether you remember, or not, but you remember where Hammer's used to be there, in, on, what is that, Broad Street, or whatever it is?
MRS. PRESLEY: Main Street.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Main Street, when they first started, I think it was.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: There was a woman, two women, that used to get cardboard out of the back. And, this lady, I didn't know whether she's a woman or man, when I first saw her, because she wore a hat like a cab driver would wear. And, they had an old car, seemed like it was a Studebaker, or something of that nature. And, she'd get that cardboard out of that back, both of them, and stack it up, and put it in there, and then, tie it on the roof of that car.
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I would've never thought of that if we hadn't talked of this.
MRS. PRESLEY: What I remember about that location, where Hammer's is now, or where it used to be, on Main Street, Clinton, was the building that was there before that. We used to go to the Park Hotel there, and eat dinner in the old hotel that was on that corner, before they built, right across from the railroad tracks. And, that's another story. My Mom and Dad, from the time I was in about sixth grade, or, surely, seventh grade, would take me over to Clinton and, about six-thirty in the morning, and put me on the train, by myself, the Carolina Special that ran from Cincinnati, all the way to Charleston. I would ride 12 hours on that train, by myself, and get off in Orangeburg, three blocks from where my grandmother lived. They would meet me at the train, and I would go spend a number of weeks there, during the summer. Then, the reverse trip was, I'd get on in Orangeburg, and they would meet me in Knoxville, because they could pick me up earlier when I got there, and not have to go through the layover there, then come to Clinton, which would've made it a lot later. We could be home. But, you wouldn't do that in today's environment, put a child ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: One, there's no train to ride.
MRS. PRESLEY: No.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How old were you?
MRS. PRESLEY: Seventh grade, sixth, or seventh grade. I did that until I graduated high school, and went to college.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, what do you remember riding on the train?
MRS. PRESLEY: Riding?
MR. HUNNICUTT: What do you remember about riding on the train?
MRS. PRESLEY: The, the noise, and the rolling, and, of course, it wasn't air conditioned then. That's the first time I ever saw a woman nurse a baby in public, was on the train. You know, out in something like that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was the train crowded?
MRS. PRESLEY: It was, people did a lot of train travel, then. Probably more so than buses. We got to the mountains in North Carolina belong, beyond Asheville, one time, and I looked up, and here came one of my cousins down the aisle. She had been to church camp, in the summer, and I was headed to my other grandmother's house. She was on my daddy's side, and ... small world.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you got out ...
MRS. PRESLEY: I love trains.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you first boarded in Clinton, did, did you have a ticket, and the porter came down through there, and asked for tickets, or do you recall how that worked?
MRS. PRESLEY: I just got on, with my luggage, and ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have to sit ...
MRS. PRESLEY: ... rode the train.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... with your luggage?
MRS. PRESLEY: I think it was under the seat, or someplace like that. You didn't travel with a lot of luggage, back then. They would come through with snacks, or Mother would fix me a lunch. I don't ever remember going to the dining room by myself. Maybe, once, when I got older.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did they have a restroom on the train?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah. With an open hole to the track below. When you flushed, you saw the gravel on, on the tracks.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, was that during the time of segregation?
MRS. PRESLEY: It would've been, well, seventh grade, I would've been, what '50, 57, '56, 57. But, I don't remember seeing a lot of African Americans riding the train, back then.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember ...
MRS. PRESLEY: I just didn't notice the difference, if they were there, I didn't, we were just all ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... passengers.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How many times did you do that?
MRS. PRESLEY: Probably six, or seven times. My grandfather, who was deceased by the time I started riding the train, had been a freight master for the Southern railroad, and my mother grew up in a railroad house, right across from the train station in Orangeburg. So, trains were, sort of, in their blood.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that, do you recall, was that a diesel, or steam locomotive. Do you remember?
MRS. PRESLEY: I think it was steam. Once you left Knoxville, you followed the French Broad River, to get over the mountains.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, you started early of the morning, I guess, and got there in the afternoon.
MRS. PRESLEY: Six-thirty, and it was about, after six, it was about a 12-hour ride.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did the train have a layover anywhere, or a stop?
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh, yeah. Clinton, we left at Clinton, it stopped in Knoxville, it stopped in Asheville, it stopped in Spartanburg, it stopped in Columbia. Those are the ones that I remember, before we got to Orangeburg.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were the stops very long, or just for boarding, unboarding passengers.
MRS. PRESLEY: Ten or 15 minutes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was Christmas like at your house?
MRS. PRESLEY: It was ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Growing up, as a young girl, versus up through high school, let's say.
MRS. PRESLEY: We had one Christmas tree, a live tree, you know, not a lot of other decorations in the house, and one main gift per child. It was always anticipated, and looked forward to, and we had a stocking. But, it was church. I remember being in a Christmas play. The first play I was ever in was at the First Presbyterian Church in Oak Ridge. I was an angel at the Christmas play. So, there were activities like that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your family have a telephone in the early days, when you moved here?
MRS. PRESLEY: We always had a telephone with a five-digit number: 5-7-0-4-2.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were you on a party line?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember being on a party line, here. We might have been. The only party line memory I have is going to visit an aunt and uncle up in Kentucky, and they were on, in a smaller community, and they had a party line, but ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your family have any visitors during the time, you know, in '49's when they opened the gates, but prior to that, the city was ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Had to go meet them, to get them in. My grandmother would come visit us, both grandmothers.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember where you had to meet them?
MRS. PRESLEY: At Elza Gate.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Or, if my grandmother came through Elza Gate.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, I presume, your father had, or mother, whichever, had to make arrangements with the authorities to get a pass. Was there a requirement on how long a person could visit?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember it. It was just getting through the gates, and then, once you were in, I guess, the household you were visiting was responsible for that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember going in, and out through the gates?
MRS. PRESLEY: I still have my mother's pass, with her picture on it, and Bob's mom's pass.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, all right, well ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Of course, the daddys had their work badges.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I don't remember going through the gates, for some reason. Guess we didn't go.
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, my dad had a sister that was a teacher in Knoxville, so when we would go over there, to see her, we would go through the gates.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What do you remember about that experience?
MRS. PRESLEY: Just showing the adult badges, and driving through. I don't remember ever being held up, or anything.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You recall them searching the car when you came back, or anything?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. I think, in the early days, they did more of that ...
MRS. PRESLEY: The security, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, than they did later on, just like anything else, they get tired of looking in trunks.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let's talk about the Oak Ridge swimming pool. It's quite unique place to go to. What do you remember about it?
MRS. PRESLEY: Wonderful summer days there, learning to swim. That's, that's the most magnificent pool. I don't know anywhere that there's a bigger pool than that. I don't remember the day, swimming there before it was concreted in, but I know it used to be, like, a lake, spring-fed lake. Then, they ultimately concreted it in. But, I remember the Olympic lines, and the, where you could go jump off the deep end, and, and it had a nice beach area, and I took swimming lessons there. I actually saw my swimming teacher, at the Secret City Festival, one June.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's one, one other unique thing about the Oak Ridge swimming pool that you haven't mentioned. It was spring-fed, and the water was cold.
MRS. PRESLEY: It was.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Very cold.
MRS. PRESLEY: But, it's like going tubing in the river. Once you get used to that, it feels good. My husband, Bob, was a lifeguard there, in summers, when we dated.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's a good job for young kids. That gives them responsibility, and makes a little money for them, as well. What do you remember about the municipal market building? And, I may have to give you a little more clues to that.
MRS. PRESLEY: Is that where Downtown is now?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, not exactly.
MRS. PRESLEY: Or is it the one that was out east?
MR. HUNNICUTT: It's where, it was behind CN, where CVS is, and that's where Lizz's Market was, at one time, and WA Tillery [sp?]...
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh, ok, I remember Lizz's Market.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. That, that's what the right name for that building was. That was, kind of, did you ever go shopping, or with your mother, or yourself in Lizz's Market?
MRS. PRESLEY: We did. But, I think, most of our shopping was done at Elm Grove, or Jackson Square, or East Village.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MRS. PRESLEY: Or Outer Drive.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about, let's talk about Jackson Square, a little bit. What do you remember, as a child, in Jackson Square?
MRS. PRESLEY: Jackson Square Hardware, and the movie theaters. My memory of the movie theaters is, when you went to the movies, it cost nine cents, back then, to see a movie, if I recall that right. I used to have money to buy popcorn, and a drink, above that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Twenty-five cents would go a long way, wouldn't it?
MRS. PRESLEY: It will, it did. One of the other special things that I remember Jackson Square is, when Friedman's Jewelry Store was there, next to where Samuel's was. And, Max Friedman, who was the owner, was the uncle of Hymie Billig, and Hymie was a classmate, and a friend of my dad's, growing up in Columbia, South Carolina. So, he was our jeweler. If we had any needs, we went to Friedman's Jewelry Store.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, if you're looking at Samuel's, which side of Samuel's would that've been on?
MRS. PRESLEY: On the left.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Between Samuel's, and the shoe store?
MRS. PRESLEY: Near, maybe, next door to Hall's.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The shoe store, Hall's Shoe Store.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah. I, that's another memory. I made a note for you about that, because I can remember going to Hall's, and having my feet measured, and having custom-made sandal, leather sandals made at Hall's Shoes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You recall, every time ...
MRS. PRESLEY: I love family-owned businesses.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... every time you went in the store, they had shoes for sale. You'd sit down and, of course, the clerk would come out, and they had a way of measuring your feet, supposedly, to fit the shoes. I don't know how accurate that was.
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, it was like a measuring, a metal measuring thing.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Guess it's the most ...
MRS. PRESLEY: And, they added a little extra for your toe room.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did girls have a tendency to want to buy shoes smaller than their actual size?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: (laughs) Why is that?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, because I, finally, got a, I don't know whether it's vain, or just not knowing, or knowing that your feet are going to hurt when you wear dress shoes. And then, when you get to be older, when your feet hurt, you hurt all over, and you learn to go bigger, and more comfortable with your shoe size.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me what else you did for pleasure, other than the swimming pool, and the movie theaters.
MRS. PRESLEY: Reading. I knitted, once I learned how to knit, I did a good bit of knitting. I picked up crocheting later, but I, being the oldest child, with a household that, where Dad's income raised us all, but there wasn't a lot of extra activities. I didn't get to take dancing, and do things like that. I was in the Brownies, and Girl Scouts, for a while. But, my main activity was church-related, through the youth group.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What church did your family attend?
MRS. PRESLEY: First Presbyterian. My dad was on the committee to sign the paperwork, to build the existing First Presbyterian Church. Because we started, when we joined, we were meeting up at New York Avenue, in the gymnasium, for church.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, where did the original church, where was it built?
MRS. PRESLEY: First Presbyterian is where it is now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where is that?
MRS. PRESLEY: At the corner of Lafayette, and the Turnpike.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Right. I just wanted you to ...
MRS. PRESLEY: You're making me think.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I just wanted you to tell me. (laughs)
MRS. PRESLEY: You're giving me a test.
MR. HUNNICUTT: All this is a test. (laughter) Do you recall, when they opened the gates, and had the parade here, do you remember going to that?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yes. Well, let me tell you this: I don't remember me being there. I remember that because Bob, and his family, were there. They were there watching the parade. I don't know that my parents went, be ... I don't remember being there in person. What I remember is the 60th anniversary.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Oh, of the city?
MRS. PRESLEY: When the, the gate opening.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MRS. PRESLEY: That's when the flattop house was dedicated.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. We'll get to that in just a minute. The Grove Theater was a little different, I thought, than the other theaters just for the fact that, seemed like they showed better grade movies. Is that your opinion?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, I think it was, probably, more centrally located in Oak Ridge, the way the residential communities were, and the better parking, and all. Because The Ridge didn't used to have that parking, across the street, that they do now. That was green, so ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, the Center's the bigger theater of all the theaters, indoor theaters.
MRS. PRESLEY: I remember going to see the Center, you know, what is that, Jefferson, or down that way?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Jefferson.
MRS. PRESLEY: That's where I saw the movie of the coronation of Queen Elizabeth, in that theater.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That theater later became the Wayne Theater, down at Jefferson.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Probably, in our time it was Wayne.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: We're too young for the Jefferson.
MRS. PRESLEY: But the neat thing about the theaters is, that a future aunt of Bob's family, who was a family friend, at that point, from Middle Tennessee, worked at The Ridge, and his uncle ended up working at The Grove. Bob ushered, primarily, well, he ushered at both of the theaters. But when he, and I, started dating, our senior year in high school, and after that, until we were married, if we wanted to go see a movie, we got in free, because his connection at The Ridge, and The Grove. So, it was Friday night at one, and Saturday night at the other.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What year did you graduate from high school?
MRS. PRESLEY: 1962.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, what did you do after you graduated?
MRS. PRESLEY: I stayed off that summer, and had been accepted at East Tennessee College, it was back then, the year I was there, it was changed to East Tennessee State University. I started out as a business major, but I, and we were on the quarter system then, instead of semesters. The spring quarter, the third quarter of that first year, I got a diamond, from Bob. When I got home, in June, my mom said, "If you're going to get married, you can just get you a job." So, I never went back to school. I tell people I got an MRS, instead of a BS, (laughter) from that one year of college.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where were you, and what do you remember about, when you heard about, President Kennedy being shot.
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, I went to work in June of 1963, at Y-12. And, Kennedy was shot in November of 1963, Thanksgiving week. We had the PA, Public Announce system, from the plant shift, shift superintendent's office at Y-12, and I remember hearing the announcement that President Kennedy had been killed. Standing in that hallway, near the speakers, and all of us just, almost, motionless, and stupefied by the news. That set off days of mourning, nationally, through the US. They even closed the plant, and made a national holiday, the day of his funeral, so we could all stay home, and watch the proceedings on TV.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall any security change at Y-12, when that happened?
MRS. PRESLEY: It geared up. The other part of that day is, Bob was on Fort Knox base, going through basic training to be in the Tennessee Army National Guard. We were going up to see him that weekend, because it was Thanksgiving. We didn't know whether he'd get off base, or whether they would confine all the military to the base, but then, the news came out that James Earl Ray [Lee Harvey Oswald] had shot Kennedy, and, and we were, actually, at his aunt's house up there, just off of Fort Knox base, at Radcliff, Kentucky, watching the proceedings on TV, when they were moving James Earl Ray, and we saw Osborn [Jack Ruby] shoot him. So, that's a big snapshot in my growing up years.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let's, let's talk about you and Bob. Where and when did you get married?
MRS. PRESLEY: Where, and when. We married in the Presbyterian Church in Oak Ridge, on December the nineteenth, 1964. It snowed that day. Mr. Bob was worried that he wasn't going to get out of town, and across the Solway Bridge, to his honeymoon in Gatlinburg (laughs) because of the snow that day. But, we made it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, tell me where you first met Bob. Was that in high school?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, actually, Bob and I had known each other since we were five-years-old, because we grew up in the same church. Our parents, my parents were members there before his parents joined, but we grew up in the same church. Then, when we got involved with the youth group, Gordon Ripper was our youth director, at the church there, and he was wonderful with the teens. But, Bob and I were friends, on that level, and he was dating a girl that had gone to Jefferson. Of course, Bob was a Robertsville student, in junior high. So, he, they had some problems, and he, I don't even remember the situation now, but he came to me with his problems with his girlfriend and, I tell people, I guess I fixed them. Because he showed up at my house, in the snow, at the top of California Avenue, on New Year's Eve, the year we were seniors in high school. And, after that, we were never apart again.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have strict dating rules, when you were dating Bob?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yes. The front porch light would get -- if we were spooning out, out on the street, and Mother heard us drive up, she'd be watching for us -- the front porch light would get flickered, and that meant it was time to come in.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have a curfew time?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yes. Back then, that house hadn't been added onto, and there was just the central living room. So, if you had a date, the whole family was there watching TV, because the houses only had one TV, back then.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was the curfew time? Do you recall?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, usually, it was around 11, 11:30, unless it was a, a dance or something. I got to stay out all night, first time, or pretty late at night, for junior prom.
MR. HUNNICUTT: If you were, you, and Bob, were outside, and the porch light came on ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Parking in the front of security. (laughs)
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... did that, also, give him the, the ability to be able to come in the house, and stay longer, or did he have to leave.
MRS. PRESLEY: No, usually, that was, "Good night." I don't even remember him walking me to the door, if Mother was standing there. I just went in.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was he afraid of your parents?
MRS. PRESLEY: No. No.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you have a, some pictures there of your mother's badge. Let's show that a minute.
MRS. PRESLEY: This is Bob's mother's badge.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Bob's mother's ...
MRS. PRESLEY: I, my, I should've brought it, but ... that's Charlcie Presley
OFF CAMERA VOICE: Down, for the light ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Is that better?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. Move your finger there, a minute.
MRS. PRESLEY: And, that was her security badge. She had to use that every day, because she was a teacher in Clinton, at the elementary school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, the way that worked was, if you left the area, you had to have that badge to get back in, also.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I'm sure there was ways to getting back in, if you'd forgot your badge, and left, but that was what you were supposed to carry with you, at all times.
MRS. PRESLEY: Probably had to have somebody from the family come meet you, or the employee with an employee badge, I don't know.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. Well, point out some of the people in that.
MRS. PRESLEY: Ok. Is it? This is Charles and Charlcie Presley.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's Bob's parents?
MRS. PRESLEY: His parents, on the day they got married. His dad had, that's an interesting story. They became engaged on December 7, 1941. Bob's dad was in the National Guard unit, in Cookeville, and he had also been in the CCCs, and migrated into the National Guard for an income, and all. But, he got called to active duty that night. They were with a teaching friend of his mother, and they became engaged that night. Well, he went to, in the Army, and ended up out at the Presidio, and Camp Roberts, out in California. When he came back, he was diagnosed with tuberculosis, and he was in a, they called them sanitariums, for TB patients, out in California. Then he moved to one at Hopkinsville, Kentucky, and that's where that picture is made. And that's, she got on a bus, at Cookeville, Putnam County, rode up there, and married him. The preacher's wife was the observer for the wedding. She got on the bus, and came back home to her family, and then, that was in October the 21st of 1942.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And then, they came to Oak Ridge to work, he did?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah, when he got out of the service, and got home, she taught, and he worked in Putnam County, for a while. Then, Bob was born in '44, and when he was six weeks old, they moved, rented a room, and had bathroom and kitchen privileges, in Knoxville, near St. Mary's hospital, with a family, because that's what you did back then.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, what did he do, here at, during the Manhattan Project?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, they both had very, almost, austere family backgrounds, because Bob's dad had to quit school in eighth grade. He was the oldest of four children, and his mother died of tuberculosis. There was a lot of people that had tuberculosis in that community, and other areas, back then. So, he quit school, and took care of his three younger siblings. His dad was, basically, a share crop farmer, where they rented, lived on property, and he helped till the land. They never owned a house, at all. When Bob was born, at six weeks old, they came to Knoxville, and on the GI Bill, and he was going to go to school. He did get his GED, but he just didn't like the learning environment. So, he ... After, they didn't live in that place near St. Mary's in Knoxville very long. They moved to, out off of, near West High School, in Knoxville. Sutherland Avenue, I guess it is. There was a neighborhood out there, that had houses built, almost like houses you would see on a military base, for veterans, GI Bill. For them to have a place to live. It was a family friend, that had a three-bedroom house, and they took up residence there for a while, while his dad got a job in Oak Ridge, when he decided not to go to school any more. He came to work at K-25, and his first job there was fitting safety shoes, which everybody had to wear back then, with the steel toes to protect your feet, at K-25. I guess, he got mentored into it, but he, too, went to work in the Medical Department, and became, like, a lab technician, doing blood samples, and things like that. Then, he evolved from that into being an optician, and fitting the safety glasses that people wore. Ultimately, that led him to getting certified, through the State of Tennessee, and he was laid off at K-25, when they had some of those big lay-offs there, in late '50s. He went to work for the Christenberry Optical Dispensary, or hospital, that was downtown, near where the, is it the Hilton, is built, now? In the downtown area.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I don't know.
MRS. PRESLEY: It was an old, like, an old house, and he went to work for Christenberry Optical for a number of years. Then, ultimately, he opened Presley Optical Dispensary, in Oak Ridge, which was next door to where the Snow White was, on the, what is now, the Methodist Medical Center property.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me about the flattop house that's located at the American Museum of Science Energy. It's got a connection with you. What is that?
MRS. PRESLEY: It is. Because of Bob's work at Y-12, and our involvement with the community, he had friends at the museum. After we moved to Seymour, I was riding with him a lot, because his mother still lived in Anderson County, and we hadn't sold our house out between Oak Ridge, and Clinton. One day, I stopped by the museum, and Lissa Clarke, who was the public affairs person there, said, "Louise, are you and Bob coming to the gate opening ceremony, and the flattop dedication, the 60th anniversary?" And, I said, "We’ll be here Saturday, for the gate opening, but we hadn't planned to be at the flattop dedication. But, you know Bob, and his mom, and dad, lived at 68 Outer Drive." And, her mouth flew open, and she made a wheelie to go into her office, and picked up the draft of the program, for the flattop house dedication. She came out, and she said, "Louise, that house came from 68 Outer Drive." So, of course, we were there for the dedication, and, their pictures, like the wedding day picture, and some pictures of Bob, as a toddler, on a tricycle, in the flattop house. We also gave them, before it opened, a wooden shipping crate, for a set of encyclopedias that his parents had ordered, that was mailed to that address, and it has the shipping label that says, "Charles Presley, 68 Outer Drive." So, that verified it. It was dated October of '49, so they moved there when Bob was, probably, two and a half, three-years-old, which would've been the '46, '47 time frame, and lived there until Dec, January, of 1950, I believe it was. They moved to a Woodland block house, there on the corner of South Purdue, and Manhattan, I believe, it is. The sidewalks weren't even paved. The house was just barely finished when they moved into it. But, the reason they moved there, and, I guess, had priority as renters there, was -- the story is that the water tower, above the hill from 68 Outer Drive, had leaked, and had come across, down the hill, and across the road, and had weakened the underpinning of the flattop house, which was located there, just a couple of doors from Outer Drive Shopping Center.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Those flattops, kind of, sit down below the road, if I remember right.
MRS. PRESLEY: It did. It did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, there were two water tanks. One was wood, and one was metal, like it is, now.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The wooden one's the one that sprung a leak. But, there was something else that I remember Bob telling me about that day, was when he was out there, and people would come in, and he'd say, "Welcome to my house." They had no clue what he's talking about, and he explained that to them.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's, kind of, unique situation, there.
MRS. PRESLEY: The museum has a little 90 second video of him talking about that being his house, and they took our granddaughter with us, that day, and all. But his favorite tale, when he got through talking about the house, was to say, "Abe Lincoln, and I, have our childhood homes in museums." (laughter)
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. You have a couple of other photographs there. This is the ...
MRS. PRESLEY: This is a memory board that I did after Bob passed away. And, this is him, as a child, can you see it?
OFF CAMERA VOICE: Just tilt it forward. There you go.
MRS. PRESLEY: In Putnam County, before they moved, or they were visiting. They already lived in this area, but they'd go back there. His grandfather still lived there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's at the flattop, right there.
MRS. PRESLEY: This is in front of the flattop, and that's the hill, behind him, where the water tower released the water, and came across the road. This was at Fort Knox, Kentucky, when he was in basic training for the Tennessee Army National Guard. And, that was, probably, Don remembers that view, probably, at Woodland.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes, it was.
MRS. PRESLEY: This was the day, that was our last date, before he went off to basic training, and we were up at Clingman's Dome. Now, you talk about a mama being worried, knowing he was going off to the military, she thought, she didn't want me to go that day, because she thought we were going to run off to Georgia, and get married, like (laughs) a lot of other young people did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, this is the ...
MRS. PRESLEY: And then, this is ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... flattop.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... Bob, standing on the porch of the flattop, the day we did the filming, for that 90 second video, for the museum. And, that's our granddaughter, Kendall, standing beside us.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, Bob was involved a lot with the county fairs, wasn't he?
MRS. PRESLEY: That's a horseshoe pitching contest. We, actually, started out volunteering in our late, in our 20s, as the Jaycees and Jaycettes, in Oak Ridge. When we aged out, at 36, we got involved with Anderson County Fair. That was about, he was, probably, about that age, and he was doing horseshoe pitching contests. That evolved into him being the Tennessee Association of Fairs State President, in 1992. We visited 36 fairs, that year, all the way from Gray, to the Mid-South Fair in Memphis. The Appalachian Fair at Gray. So, we have friends through the Jaycees, and the state fair organization, all across Tennessee. It opened up wide friends for us, and my granddaughter, to this day, will say, "GaGa," -- that's my grandmother name, GaGa -- "who're we going to see that you know today." I said, "You just stay tuned. You just never know."
MR. HUNNICUTT: Bob had a long career of Y-12, as well, and he had a lot of VIPs that came to the plant. He'd, he did a lot of escorting for them, I remember. And, was the, I guess, I used to call him, the Premier Director for Y-12, for visitors. Did a great job with that. Oak Ridge is such a unique place. It's very difficult to cover everything that happened in our lives, or, or tell about those things. Is there anything, that comes to mind, that we haven't covered, that you'd like to speak about?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, work, I worked at Y-12 for 36 and a half years. I was in an administrative capacity, and I worked in human resources, and salary administration. So, I knew people, by names, and faces. Names, and, maybe, not faces, or whatever. It was a unique group to work in. Then, I moved to the production area. Bob's work history was different. He worked for Dr. Kyle, in the early years of our marriage. He sold cars at Watlington Chrysler Plymouth, that was on Melton Lake Drive, for a little while. And then, he got a job with Dr. Kyle. Well, actually, I guess, he worked at the Comparative Animal Research Lab, for a while. My dad had left K-25 when they had a lay-off, and gone out there as their safety engineer, for a number of years.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let me ask you a question about that. Where was that located?
MRS. PRESLEY: On Scarboro Road.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's where Scarboro School used to be.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right, that was the office for that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, do you recall, can you tell me anything, information about that operation out there?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, my dad was the safety engineer, and they're, you know, some of the employees lived in the farmhouses, that were located just across the road from that location. When Bob went to work there, he was, sort of, the yard man, for mowing the fields, and all. He would help, that was probably his first exposure to radiation, because he would help deliver pig fetuses, for research, and help radiate them. I'm sure he wasn't monitored, or anything, back then. So, when he finished that job, he got an opportunity to go to the Mouse House, at Y-12, Biology Division, located on the Y-12 site. He worked there, for a while. That's an interesting story, because that was the early days of unionization of the biology workers. Bob just really didn't want to be in that environment and, because, I guess, likely, because I was working in human resources, and, fortunately, had contact, I said, he would like to transfer to another position. So, he was transferred from an animal handler in biology, to being a dispatcher, at Y-12, which put him in the production area, hands-on, moving product, radiation parts from shop to shop. Eating lunch in those areas. He ended up, eventually, he always had good, he almost had a college degree, but he never finished. He had three plus years of college, but he had a good engineering background, and he moved into product engineering. He was, more or less, mentored into being an engineer. He was an engineering assistant, and then, a senior engineering assistant, then a staff engineer. That led him to being a special production nuclear weapons engineer. He would travel to Albuquerque, Los Alamos, Livermore, Pantex, and the different sites. At the Nevada Test Site, outside of Las Vegas, he even went down into the holes to set up shots, for testing out there. So, he had a unique experience. When the Cold War came, and that started trimming down the efforts in that area, he knew the buildings in Y-12, because of his experience with dispatching, and having worked in the east end in biology, and all. He had done tours, even when he was in product engineering. Gordon Fee, at that time, became the president of the, I guess, it was under Martin-Marietta, because Carbide had gone, as a contractor. Gordon arranged for Bob to be provided with a 15-passenger van, and when they had dignitary people, or important people come to visit the plant, he got a commercial driver’s license certification through the State of Tennessee, and he would drive, with either Fee, and DOE [Department of Energy] managers.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I don't remember, at that time. Go ahead, though.
MRS. PRESLEY: Ok. But, with ... LaGrone, Joe LaGrone. He would take DOE, and corporate, Martin-Marietta, people, and they included secretaries of the state. I can remember a vivid tale about Bill Richardson, when he was Secretary of the Department of Energy.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Defense?
MRS. PRESLEY: Department of Energy.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Department of Energy.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... being there, and some of the tales he could, he could've written a book about the stories with these people. Governors, and he helped with the tours, when the President would come, on one occasion, to Oak Ridge. So, he had a, a unique background, and perspective, and he knew the buildings in Y-12, and, basically, what had gone on there, and he could give unclassified statements about that to the visitors. Because of that knowledge, and work history, on the Friday before 9/11, which I think was the seventh of September, 2001, we got home late in the afternoon, six or seven o'clock, and there was a voice message left on our telephone line. A call to Bob from the White House. He thought it was too late to call back that day, so he waited until Monday morning to call the White House, and they got a little, fussed at him a little bit because he didn't call back. But, the reason for the call was to tell him that he had a presidential nomination to the Advisory Board on Radiation and Worker Health, which is the Sick Worker Bill for the nuclear weapons complex people. He had to go through a confirmation process, just like you were going to be secretary of the state. We had to bare every penny of everything we owned, and where -- he, and I -- to be approved for that. But, once it was approved, he went to his first meeting on that advisory board, in Washington, D.C., in January of 2002. And, he served on that until he passed away, in September 2011, five years ago.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let me back you up a minute, to the research. And, the reason I'm doing that is because there's not much information available on that. And your, Bob's father worked there, as well.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did Bob's father have any exposure that might've contributed to his passing, that you know of?
MRS. PRESLEY: No, not that I know of. I think, I don't know where he did the safety shoes, whether that was, probably, in a stores department, back then, if I remember how we operated at Y-12. But, he wasn't out, in the plant, as much, as my dad was at K-25. And, he passed away of Parkinson's, and then, ultimately, a stroke.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, that research hospital was where they brought ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... animals back from nuclear blast, being exposed to ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... above ground nuclear blast?
MRS. PRESLEY: The Alamogordo test cattle, offspring, were brought to the Comparative Animal Research Lab, which was UT, University of Tennessee, and the, I guess, DOE provided the comparative animal research federal funding. So, Bob was, Bob was, that was, probably, his first exposure to the radiation materials. The irony there is that my dad was the safety engineer part of the time that he was employed there. And, a trained (siren sound went off as we were talking, in the background) industrial hygienist. (laughs)
MR. HUNNICUTT: Speaking of the alarm ...
MRS. PRESLEY: (laughs) That's the siren.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The siren, it must be 12 o'clock.
MRS. PRESLEY: Must be 12 o'clock, on Wednesday.
OFF CAMERA VOICE: First Wednesday.
MR. HUNNICUTT: First Wednesday in the month.
MRS. PRESLEY: It is.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, there's some other people that have some ties to that, that died later. One individual that we went to school with, I'm not going to mention a name. His father worked there, and he got exposed, and he did pass away, later. But ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Many of Bob's coworkers died of the exposure.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. But, we don't have much about that, and, I guess, they don't publicize much about that, but all that prop, all that property, that, where that new road goes through, out at, going toward Solway.
MRS. PRESLEY: To Carbide Park?
MR. HUNNICUTT: No.
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: From the new four-lane that goes out of Oak Ridge, and out through, parallel to the cemetery.
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That was pasture area, for all those animals ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Correct.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... to graze in.
MRS. PRESLEY: Correct.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, I can ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, what year was the cemetery built? That was part of the farm, I think, where the cemetery is. Was it not?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, the original ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Or, it's adjacent to it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes. It was. The original road came down there in front of the cemetery, just a two-lane.
MRS. PRESLEY: I can remember the names of some of the families that lived in those two farmhouses, over there. Toliver Thomas, and his family, and Bob Reynolds, and his family, and then, the superintendent was ... I've drawn a blank. He had kids a little younger than we did. But, he lived in the first house, which backs up, now, to where the garden, the UT garden, experimental garden is.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, there was about three, four, original farmhouses.
MRS. PRESLEY: Three, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And then, on down, where you went across the original ...
MRS. PRESLEY: There were some farmhouses there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... Solway Bridge, on that little peninsula, the Davis family, that ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... we went to school with ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... lived in that house.
MRS. PRESLEY: And my dad worked, and Bob worked, with all of those.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. Well, it's been a pleasure interviewing you. And, I'm, we could sit here three, or four more hours, and talk about Oak Ridge. It's, it's just a unique place to grow up in. And, I want to thank you for your time.
MRS. PRESLEY: Thank you.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Thank you.
[End of Interview]
[Editor’s Note: Portions of this transcript have been edited at Mrs. Presley’s request. The corresponding audio and video components have remained unchanged.]

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ORAL HISTORY OF LOUISE PRESLEY
Interviewed by Don Hunnicutt
Filmed by BBB Communications, LLC.
September 7, 2016
MR. HUNNICUTT: This interview is for the Center for Oak Ridge Oral History. The date is September 7, 2016. I'm Don Hunnicutt, in the studio of BBB Communications, LLC., 170 Randolph Road, Oak Ridge, Tennessee, to take Louise Presley's oral history about growing up, and living in Oak Ridge. Louise, please state your full name, place of birth, and date.
MRS. PRESLEY: Louise Langston Stoddard Presley. Stoddard being my maiden name. I was born in Orangeburg, South Carolina, and I was born on August, 27, 1944.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was your father's name, place of birth, and date, if you recall.
MRS. PRESLEY: David Lowry Stoddard. He was born in Columbia, South Carolina, on March 8, 1913.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, about your mother's maiden name, place of birth, and date.
MRS. PRESLEY: Ok. My mother was Ruth Cooper Stoddard, and she was born in Orangeburg, South Carolina, and, her story is that she's an April Fool's child. She was born on April 1, 1916.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Your grandparents, on your father's side. Do you remember their place of birth, and give me their names, please.
MRS. PRESLEY: On my ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Father's side.
MRS. PRESLEY: Father's side.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I'm sorry.
MRS. PRESLEY: Ok. David’s side, James Alexander Stoddard, and Linda Toland, T-O-L-A-N-D, Stoddard.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, on your mother's side of the family.
MRS. PRESLEY: William Seabrooks Cooper, and Louise Langston Cooper. I was named after that grandmother.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me about your father's school history.
MRS. PRESLEY: My father's school history was that, he was the fourth of five children, of a professor at the University of South Carolina. So, when he got past high school, and all, he was a professor's kid, and he, actually, part of the time, lived on the Carolina campus, in a professor's home, just there off of the, the “U” on campus, at the University of South Carolina, on Sumter Street.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, what was the furthest grade of education he went through?
MRS. PRESLEY: He got a Master's degree at the University of South Carolina. He had a bachelor's in chemistry, and a Master's in chemical engineering, I believe, which led to him being an industrial hygienist at K-25, eventually.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's quite a different contrast, isn't it?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yes. He was not in World War II, actively, in the military, because he was helping Wanamaker Chemical Company, in Orangeburg, South Carolina, make a chemical supply for the war.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you know what type of chemicals they made?
MRS. PRESLEY: I do not.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about your mother's school history?
MRS. PRESLEY: High school. And, a little bit of business school, beyond that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have sisters and brothers?
MRS. PRESLEY: I have two sisters. I'm the eldest of three girls.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, what are their names?
MRS. PRESLEY: Francis Stoddard Parrett, now, and Mary Stoddard Kirkland. She lives in Memphis.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Your father, you mentioned he worked at a chemical company. What did he do after that, if anything, well, before he came to Oak Ridge, let's say that?
MRS. PRESLEY: His history, really, was before he went to work for Wanamaker Chemical. He was in the CCCs [Civilian Conservation Corps], and became a supervisor with the CCCs, and helped build state parks in South Carolina, and Oconee State Park.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you know about what year that might've been?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, he completed the CCCs when the program was closed down.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember when that program was closed down?
MRS. PRESLEY: Probably, around, 1941.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I don't know.
MRS. PRESLEY: No, it seems that it was'41, I think, because he, and Mother, were married, and he was getting ready to be moved to another place, down on the coast of South Carolina, to Walterboro. Anyway, CCC, Civilian Conservation Corps, ceased to exist, and that's when he went to work for Wanamaker Chemical.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I had the same experience, with my father, in a different location.
MRS. PRESLEY: Mom said it was ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, describe, what do you remember about the house you lived in, before you came to Oak Ridge. Or were you too young to remember?
MRS. PRESLEY: No, there were several houses that we lived in. The one I remember the most was, sort of, an Arts and Crafts style, early nineteenth century home. If you can picture that. It was a rental property, and my parents, and I, actually, went in it, probably, 15 years ago, and took pictures. It's a day care center in Orangeburg, now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that a single level house, or a ...
MRS. PRESLEY: It was.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, describe to me, a little bit, how was it, how many bedrooms was in the house.
MRS. PRESLEY: Two, and, possibly three, because it, since it'd been transformed, turned to a day care center. They have rearranged the house, so they have a big central kitchen and fireplaces.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were your sisters born at that time?
MRS. PRESLEY: No, they were born here in Oak Ridge. I was the only one born in South Carolina.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And how old were you when the family left that ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Two and a half.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... house?
MRS. PRESLEY: Daddy came to work in December of 1947, at K-25. He came home for the holidays, and Mother, and I, came back with him. Around January first...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall why he came to work here?
MRS. PRESLEY: The, the chemical job, and he went to work in the medical department at K-25, which is where they did the industrial hygiene type work. The interesting thing about him is that, he was a registered industrial hygienist, and he, his number of registrations was somewhere around 550, 550 number, and they're into a multiple 50,000, or more, now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you know what an industrial hygienist's job requirements are?
MRS. PRESLEY: As a kid, people would say, "What does your Daddy do?" And, I'd say, "He's an industrial hygienist." "What's that?" would be the next question. I said, "I don't know. He's an industrial hygienist." When I got old enough to learn more, and went to work at Y-12, as an 18-year-old, I learned more about what my dad had done, as an industrial hygienist. It's in the, the monitoring of the safety and health systems, in an industrial environment.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It's, kind of, basic take care of yourself and other people, isn't it? I mean.
MRS. PRESLEY: You've got that right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. Did your mother work?
MRS. PRESLEY: She was never employed after they were married. She was a homemaker.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where were they married?
MRS. PRESLEY: They were married in the parlor of her mom and dad's house in Orangeburg, South Carolina.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember the date of that?
MRS. PRESLEY: January 29, 1940. And, in South Carolina. It was a cold day, and they had a freeze, and the pipes froze off the wall in the bathroom.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did, you've have a lot of knowledge about your parents, back in the day. Did they talk to you during your years of growing up, to gain this knowledge? How did you gain this knowledge? Because, sometimes, that's, with me, it's lost. I have to go look at the Bible to refer to something. How've you gained all your knowledge about the days of ago, of old?
MRS. PRESLEY: I think I was born old, with deep roots in South Carolina, and in history. My grandfather was the head of the summer school, and professor of education at the University of South Carolina. So, we've always liked history, and telling a story. I have books in my library at home that got passed down through many generations in my family. The oldest is a copy of John Bunyan's, Pilgrim's Progress, hidebound, not in real good shape, but it's got a 1686 publication date, and it's been passed through the family.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, you've had a passion for history ever since you've ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Always.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... been young, and you've just been able to retain all that information.
MRS. PRESLEY: We had a good history teacher in Oak Ridge High School. Mrs. Barns? And, she fed my energy there, in, probably, eleventh grade.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall how your mother felt about moving to Oak Ridge?
MRS. PRESLEY: No. My main memory of being a child in Oak Ridge was when my two sisters came along. We lived in an A house, at 101 New York Avenue. And, there was just Mom, and Dad, and me, when we moved in. But two more little girls came, and there were, three children sleeping in that small, extra bedroom, in the A house. And, I was old enough to remember my mother crying, because we were busting at the seams. Kids didn't have as much excess to toys and clothes, and things, then, as they do now. But, because of the way housing was assigned, we, ultimately, were moved into a C house, with three bedrooms, at 195 California Avenue.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When the family first came to Oak Ridge, do you recall how they got here?
MRS. PRESLEY: Drove across the mountain before the interstate was built. We either came up through Hot Springs, or through Asheville ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: That old ...
MRS. PRESLEY: ... and Cherokee.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... 25’s a twisting highway, wasn't it.
MRS. PRESLEY: You got that right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: People think that “the dragon” down there, what they call “the dragon” is twisty, which it, it's more twisty, but that one's almost as bad as that dragon.
MRS. PRESLEY: The only time I've ever been carsick was going from Oak Ridge to Orangeburg in a pick-up truck that my dad borrowed from an old fellow, family friend in Clinton, to go pick up an upright piano for me to learn to play the piano. I had never sat up that high in a truck, and going around those curves, I was carsick by the time we got to Spartanburg.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I've experienced that many times, myself. Give me the locations of that particular town in South Carolina. What's it close to?
MRS. PRESLEY: It's about 40 miles south of Columbia, between there and Charleston.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, the second house was a C house on California, and what school did you attend, first school did you attend?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, I, probably, am one of the unique ones that got to attend multiple elementary schools. I first attended Elm Grove from kindergarten, through Christmas-time of second grade. Second grade, mid-year, we moved to California Avenue, and I got moved to Elm Grove, and I attended Elm Grove through fourth grade, with my fourth grade teacher being classmate Roger Karns’ mother, Mrs. Karns, as my teacher. Then, that was the year when all the East Village houses were opened back up, or built. They reopened Glenwood School, in East Village, so, I spent my fifth grade at East Village.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, you went to kindergarten at?
MRS. PRESLEY: Pine Valley.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Pine Valley, because you lived on New York Avenue.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And then, the first grade was Elm Grove, is that?
MRS. PRESLEY: No, no, mid-year of second grade, Elm Grove.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Ok. And, you mention about Glenwood School being reopened, that that area was full of trailers, at the time.
MRS. PRESLEY: And, flattops.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, flattops, yeah. I mean flattops, not trailers, you're correct. So, when they moved those out, they had a new housing project, and they built the ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... the type houses, and reopened Glenwood, at the time. Ok. Wanted to get it straight for the record.
MRS. PRESLEY: And, those were not rental houses. They were houses ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Right.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... you bought. When East Village was developed.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall what type of dress, attire you wore when you went to school?
MRS. PRESLEY: Always a skirt, or a dress.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It wasn't proper for girls to wear jeans, or anything like that, was it?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't think I ever wore a pair of jeans, except to a football game.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What were some of the classes that you took when you were in school? Elementary school?
MRS. PRESLEY: Elementary school. We didn't change classes back then. You, basically, had the same teacher all day, except for art, and music. And, that's one thing you can say about the arts programs in the schools, in Oak Ridge. They've always had a good one, and we had all kinds of art teachers. You did paintings and all, and then, I remember playing, not a piccolo. What do you call those little things you blow on?
MR. HUNNICUTT: A flute.
MRS. PRESLEY: Like, a little flute, in the music class. And, we'd have plays, and singing programs, at the schools.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You recall, in music, how they used to teach us about old time spiritual songs, and all different types of music, to give us a musical cultured education, I guess.
MRS. PRESLEY: From public domain, yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: But, you know, those things stick with you, in your mind. I mean, you don't hear that today. I mean, sometimes ...
MRS. PRESLEY: My favorite old timey tune is, "Old Rugged Cross."
MR. HUNNICUTT: Some of those songs today would, probably, be called racist songs, you know, but they, they, really, wasn't. Like, "Old Black Joe," and some of the other spirit, Negro spiritual songs. I mean, today's society just has changed so much, but they taught us, in school, those types of songs, and other songs, as well. You remember them teaching you Pledge Allegiance to the Flag? I think that was about the first grade, wasn't it? Or somewhere in that range.
MRS. PRESLEY: Said it every day, to start the day. Roll call, and pledge.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The teacher always, did, in your class. Did the teacher have you set in a particular spot, or did you, could sit wherever you wanted to?
MRS. PRESLEY: You had assigned seats.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I remember when we got to high school, they'd put a boy, girl, boy, girl, boy, girl. They didn't let boys and girls crowd up together, I guess, to keep people from ...
MRS. PRESLEY: And the ones that didn't behave as well, had to sit up front.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, I set up front. (laughs) What about physical education, in the elementary school, when you went. What do you remember about that?
MRS. PRESLEY: I remember having it, I think, every day? You had your reading, writing, and arithmetic in the homeroom teacher's class. But then, you did the other, and, Phys. Ed. was good. I remember more about Phys. Ed. being in junior high school, Jefferson, with Coach Orlando, and Bobbie Smith being the teachers.
MR. HUNNICUTT: There's something that came across my mind the other day, and I’ll ask you this, and see if you recall this. And, it may have just been at Woodland, I don't know. Some school year, I guess, it was the health department came, and they checked boys' and girls' spines. I mean, to see whether or not, I think this was the case, to see whether or not you had a ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Scoliosis?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes. And, I remember that, of course, they kept the girls and the boys separated, because they had to look at their backs, our backs, and, it seems like to me, there was something, like, they put little white mark, maybe, like shoe polish, or something, on your back, and took a picture, or something? Do you ever recall anything like that?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember that. No.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Maybe I had a science fiction dream of that. No ...
MRS. PRESLEY: The medical thing about school that I remember the most is, you and I came through the years of polio, and we had classmates with polio.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, this may've been related to that. I don't know. I need to try to find that out from somebody. Maybe, some of our former classmates would know that.
MRS. PRESLEY: But, it wasn't just the children. There were adults. My Sunday school teacher, at First Presbyterian, had polio. And, he got through it, and then, I saw in The Oak Ridger that he had a, his second bout of polio.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your parents keep a lot of things from you, like, maybe, how serious polio was, or any other things that? Today's society is just wide open with information. But, do you recall that?
MRS. PRESLEY: Communications weren't quite as open between parent and child then, as they are now. Now days, you have to be two steps ahead of them. (laughs)
MR. HUNNICUTT: They didn't seem to want us to know much about anything, except getting up, going to school, and certain things. And, other than that...
MRS. PRESLEY: And, you ate what was on the table.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. And, did what they told you to do.
MRS. PRESLEY: I, I have an eating story. I didn't like eggs. One morning, Mother fixed my egg for breakfast, and went to the back of the house. And, when she came back, the egg was gone. She knew it wouldn't've been gone that fast. I had carefully wrapped it up in a piece of paper towel, and put it on top of the garbage. She lifted the garbage can lid and looked in it, and found it, and she got it out, and made me eat it. (laughs) I had protected it. If I'd just thrown in there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were your parents strict on you?
MRS. PRESLEY: Very. I received spankings.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, we all did. That was the way of punishment.
MRS. PRESLEY: And, it was, you know, do as I say, not as I do, and you didn't ask questions.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The thing I hated was, you had to go pick the switch to be switched with, and those ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Or else, Dad went to the, he, we never was injured, but the belt was used sometimes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Oh, yeah.
MRS. PRESLEY: So. The switching I remember is if you got out of line with my grandmother, my namesake. She would make me go out and get a switch in the yard, and I can still see those skinny little fingers stripping the leaves off a switch. And, usually, it was used around your ankles.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Boy, it hurt bad down there, didn't it? (laughter)
MRS. PRESLEY: It didn't do any damage, but it sure did put a little burn.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Made you jump off your feet, too, didn't it? What was the next school you attended after elementary school?
MRS. PRESLEY: Jefferson Junior High School.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, where was it located?
MRS. PRESLEY: Up on Kentucky, I believe, right at the Blankenship Football Field location, on the hill. It'd been the original Oak Ridge High School.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What'd you notice different, when you attended Jefferson, than the elementary school you came to, from?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, for a kid, it was much more public. It was a different era, for me. I went through junior high school as the heavy girl. And, that made a difference, you know. That's, was, probably, my first feeling of peer pressure. It was much broader than being in a school with a community of, basically, neighbors, and friends. It made you a little more worldly. That was the basis.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let's go back to elementary, for a minute. I have a question. How many students do you recall being in your class?
MRS. PRESLEY: Over 30, I believe.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, did most of the kids get along with each other?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember single, being singled out. We had playground time every day, when the weather permitted, a little bit. And, I think, we did. Although, then, as now, there were, probably, some little cliquish groups, where your best friends played together.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have a favorite teacher in the elementary school?
MRS. PRESLEY: I loved Mrs. Karns, and my first grade teacher was Miss Bright.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was she bright?
MRS. PRESLEY: She was bright. That was, sort of, the basis of my elementary school friendships, because the first grade picture has me standing with three other classmates, that I finished high school with.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It brings up another question about elementary school. Do you recall, and it may've only been the first grade, I don't remember. But, do you recall at, I know at Woodland, they had restrooms right there. You didn't have to go down the hall, to the main restroom. Was that the case where you went? Or do you remember?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't really remember the restroom locations. The only restroom story I can really tell is my first week at Oak Ridge High School. It was two, it was two stories. On the bottom floor, the women's rest, the girls' restroom was on the far end, and the boys' was on the end closest to the office, I believe.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I know where you're going.
MRS. PRESLEY: The next, the second story, the girls' was right above there, so you could go up the stairs and be, have a boy, and girl bathroom on top of each other and, and the locations were reversed. I forgot I was on first story one day, that first week in school, and I went barreling into the restroom, and here came one of my classmates out, a male. (laughs) I said, "Oops!" and turned around and went out. (laughs)
MR. HUNNICUTT: Those things never leave your mind, do they?
MRS. PRESLEY: No, that's a snapshot in time.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, at Jefferson, how did you get back and forth to school?
MRS. PRESLEY: On the bus.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, during, let me back up, my thoughts are getting confused here. During the summertime, what did you do in between school years?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, back then, in my younger years, actually, until I was, probably, a sophomore, or junior in high school, we only had one car. My dad was in a carpool, and Mother would have a car when it wasn't his turn to, time to drive to work. Sometimes, we could ride the bus, or sometimes she would take us. I participated a little bit, in the summer programs at the elementary schools, that the city of Oak Ridge Recreation Department had. Playground-type games, and they would use the older high school students, and college students, and give them a job during the summer, to look after the children on the ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: That was a great place for kids to go. The parents could relax while they were gone.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, each school had that program, if I remember right.
MRS. PRESLEY: A lot of my summer activities, I loved to read, which is, probably, part of the love of history, and genealogy, and all. I would read five, or six books a week. So, I loved the public libraries that we had. I especially remember the one there in Jackson Square. And ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where do you remember it being located?
MRS. PRESLEY: On the corner of Kentucky, and ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tennessee.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... Tennessee.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, it was in the bottom. The rec hall was in the top ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... originally.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Then, it moved to the top, eventually moved to where it is now.
MRS. PRESLEY: We also had those travelling book trucks that would go.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Bookmobiles.
MRS. PRESLEY: Bookmobiles.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall the rolling stores? It was a big truck, enclosed in the back, and you were, come through the neighborhood ...
MRS. PRESLEY: I've seen ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... selling groceries, and various things.
MRS. PRESLEY: I've seen them other places. I don't remember my parents buying from them. The only thing I remember, like that, is that we had, was it Avondale Milk? Delivered to the house.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It was.
MRS. PRESLEY: And then, the ice cream trucks that would go through, selling ice cream.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Avondale and Broadacres.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I'm not sure Norris Creamery was involved in the early days, but ...
MRS. PRESLEY: My dad built a wooden box at the front door of our C house, and that was for milk, and mail.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You know, the milkman would bring you what he, you had set out.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I don't remember how you paid the milkman. Do you recall that?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember whether you left the money. I don't think you got billed back then. You probably just ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... put the money in the box for them to pick up.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, I have heard of stories where the milkman came in the house, and put it right in the refrigerator, for people.
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, I think they did that for some of them. But, my dad, evidently, didn't want that, so he built a milk box.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. (laughs) Well, Avondale was the brand we, we had, as well, and I didn't like the taste of Broadacre milk. I don't know why.
MRS. PRESLEY: Since, since the taste buds get used to a certain brand.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I guess so. Did you work any, when you were a teenager?
MRS. PRESLEY: Not for an employer, per se. I did a lot of babysitting.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How much was babysitting fees in those days?
MRS. PRESLEY: The earliest that I remember making was 35 cents an hour. If you were babysitting after midnight, it would, they would pay you 50 cents an hour. But, my best babysitting story is going to work for a couple that lived, and he was, like, a PhD at ORNL [Oak Ridge National Laboratory]. They lived in East Village, and they had one little boy. And, the mother was expecting. And, when the baby came, it was times two. So, I went from babysitting one, to babysitting three.
MR. HUNNICUTT: At the same price.
MRS. PRESLEY: And, I used to feed them by putting, when they got, got a little age on them, I would sit, put them in one of these chairs with the hole in them, and feed them this way, at the same time.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you get any more money, or was the same price?
MRS. PRESLEY: It was, I think they went up to 50 cents an hour, for two more children.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What, what do you, did the mother leave food for you to feed, or did you have to figure out what to feed them, or how did that work?
MRS. PRESLEY: No, she left food.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that baby food ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Jarred baby food.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... in those little, baby jars.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. How did you know how much to feed them?
MRS. PRESLEY: I just did. I guess, back then, if a baby quit eating, you just quit feeding. (laughter)
MR. HUNNICUTT: Back to Jefferson Junior High School. You mentioned Nick Orlando, and Bobbie Smith. Bobbie Smith was the girls' Phys. Ed. instructor.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, Nick was the boys' as well as the football coach, and everything else up there. Tell me something you remember about going to gym class at Jefferson. What do you recall?
MRS. PRESLEY: The boys had one half of the gym, and the girls had the other half, because your classes went at the same time. We did, mainly, indoor activities, as I recall. There may've been some outside, weather permitting, but it was, mainly, inside.
MR. HUNNICUTT: This was, for the record, this was where the original high school was, and ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... Jefferson moved there. So, the gym, you remember how the gym was laid out?
MRS. PRESLEY: It was, sort of, perpendicular to the ball field, is that right? Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, the bleachers ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Were toward the front door.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, you could walk in a door at the top, and you'd go sit down on the gym ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... sit down. How did they separate the boys from girls, in the gym?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, they're dressing room was on one side of the gym, and the girls' dressing room was on the other. And, that was the main separation. You just didn't go across the center line, they didn't have curtains, or anything, you just stayed on your side of the floor.
MR. HUNNICUTT: They did have a curtain.
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh, did they? I don't remember that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes. Now, how often they pulled that, I don't know. But, I remember the curtain, because when those girls was on the other side, and they'd get up next to the curtain, there's a few boys that slapped the curtain.
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh, I don't remember that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: After that, everybody lined up on the other side, and Nick Orlando used his razor paddle on all of us.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Whether we did anything or not. And, I remember that happening, and the girls would sit over there, on the other side of that curtain, and snigger at us, because we got in trouble for ...
MRS. PRESLEY: They knew you were getting paddled.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MRS. PRESLEY: Every once in a while, he'd paddle a girl, if she got out of line.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Oh, I didn't know about that, now.
MRS. PRESLEY: I have a good Orlando story, though. After Bob and I married, we wanted a kitty cat. Our first cat was a Siamese cat that came from the Orlando household.
MR. HUNNICUTT: He was a unique person. He would never survive in today's society.
MRS. PRESLEY: He wasn't real tall.
MR. HUNNICUTT: No.
MRS. PRESLEY: But he was full of might.
MR. HUNNICUTT: He really loved all the kids. He really did. Even though he, he paddled a few, and, and, I think, mainly, that was just to keep us in line, make sure we knew who was in charge.
MRS. PRESLEY: Some would disagree with me, but I think we need to go back to some of that. Prove the authority.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's like growing up in Oak Ridge. There'll never be another day like that.
MRS. PRESLEY: No.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's for sure. So, you attended Oak Ridge High School, and what did you see different when you walked into Oak Ridge High School, and started experiencing that, from Jefferson?
MRS. PRESLEY: It's very vivid to me. I went in to, I believe, it was a sophomore geography class, and there was one black young woman in the class with me. That's the first time I had ever attended a class with a black student in it. I believe Robertsville had had black students on that end of town, because of the geographical assignment, but, at Jefferson, we didn't, back then. And, my heart hurt for her, because, in my mind, I put myself in her place, and wondered how I would feel if I was the only white child in a black class. It's a very vivid memory.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, I think we all experienced that, that went to Jefferson ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... when we got to the high school, it was different. What was some of the classes you took at the high school?
MRS. PRESLEY: I can remember Biology, and pouring perfume on my frog when we had to dissect it, (laughs) and that didn't help at all. And, my Chemistry class, we were making, is it esters?
MR. HUNNICUTT: I don't know.
MRS. PRESLEY: Where you put them in a, a vial, and they boil up. Well, I had on a Banlon sweater, and it boiled over, and put, melted holes in my Banlon sweater. (laughs) I loved my history class, in eleventh grade. I took business classes. I learned how to do shorthand, and I could go up to about 140 words per minute, taking shorthand.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you take Home Ec.?
MRS. PRESLEY: I took Home Ec. in Jefferson. I think, the first year, sophomore year, at the high school, I had Mrs. - it started with an, "S". We went to school with her kids.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Struxness?
MRS. PRESLEY: Struxness.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MRS. PRESLEY: That's who it was, the teacher. But, my most memory about Home Ec., other than sewing -- I made all the clothes that I wore back then. I took my babysitting money, and bought fabric, and made my clothes. But, we had Miss Lamb, who was a spinster, taught Home Ec. at Jefferson, and the first thing she taught you how to cook was mush.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, what's that consist of?
MRS. PRESLEY: Corn meal, and water, and you mix it together and then, put it in the refrigerator and let it set, and then you cut it in slices and fry it. But, it wasn't very tasty. Now, I like grits, being from South Carolina, but it wasn't like my grits.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Wonder where she came up with that recipe.
MRS. PRESLEY: It was an old, that was a staple in old households, I'm sure.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You know, I don't recall Jefferson having Home Ec., although I wouldn't be interested in that anyway.
MRS. PRESLEY: It was upstairs, toward the office.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Speaking about ...
MRS. PRESLEY: And, you asked me about high school, but I'm reverting back to Jefferson ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... because my other Jefferson memory was being in seventh grade, in Miss Westbrook's class. Somebody brought a snake into the class. I had -- all snakes are deadly to me. I was standing at the back wall, as far as I could, at the back of the room, when they brought that big ol' snake in the class.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Joel Cunningham's mother was the seventh grade teacher, up there, at Jefferson, as well.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Speaking of, speaking of Jefferson, there was a particular individual woman, that taught music up there, at Jefferson, and had the band, and all of it. Do you remember her?
MRS. PRESLEY: Miss ... L ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Lyman?
MRS. PRESLEY: Lyman.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you ever have any classes with her?
MRS. PRESLEY: I wasn't into band, or anything like that. I was in the chorus up there, and did some singing. So, that's how I knew her.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, one thing I ask to get a, whoever may look at this interview, or listen to it, perspective how things change, you left elementary school, and you had Phys. Ed., physical education, and you wore gym shorts, and so forth, and you brought those from home. When you went to Jefferson, it was a whole different story. You still had gym shorts.
MRS. PRESLEY: But, you had to change in the shower rooms.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MRS. PRESLEY: And, that was a little bit uncomfortable, for me, because I was an earlier developing young lady.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, it was uncomfortable for boys, as well, because you're, you're looking, you're in an environment with other kids ...
MRS. PRESLEY: In the shower room.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... that you normally don't.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. And then, obviously, when you went to the high school, you had the same scenario. But, I always ask that, just to get the perspective of how it was.
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, we had been so protected at home and, to go into that public environment was part of growing up.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, yeah, it was. It's, it's a different culture shock you have to learn to live with.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: A lot of times, boys would just skip showers, they didn't get caught at it. Then, other times, we had to do it. But, that's just part of growing up, isn't it? In high school, did you attend any of the dances that they had for, for the kids?
MRS. PRESLEY: I've got pictures of all of them. I went to, I remember the dresses. I wore a pink chiffon to the first one, and then, I had a blue dress. Actually, I had a two-tone dress that I took my babysitting money, and my mother wasn't into spending a lot on clothes, so my babysitting money went for my clothes. I went to the old French Room, downtown Knoxville, at Miller's, and bought me a beautiful, strapless, floor-length gown, to wear to the junior prom. And, it had a hoop skirt under it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You were referring, talking earlier about making your clothes. Where did you buy your material in Oak Ridge, in those days?
MRS. PRESLEY: Right there, across the alleyway from Merle Norman's, at the Cloth Shop, primarily.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's in the Downtown ...
MRS. PRESLEY: We didn't have a downtown.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... area, that we call Downtown.
MRS. PRESLEY: We didn't have a Wal-Mart, or any place like that, then. I got my yarn, to knit with, at the Knitting Nook in Jackson Square. That reverts me back to another fifth grade story. My fifth grade teacher, Mrs. Gonzales, taught me how to knit, in fifth grade, at school. And, I have carried that forward today. I'm part of a prayer shawl group, and I knit and crochet at my church.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have to go grocery shopping with your mother, when you were young?
MRS. PRESLEY: We went, but we would walk to the grocery store, because 101 New York Avenue, was just doors from the Pine Valley shopping center. Then, when we moved up on California, we shopped a lot there at the, there where Glenwood Baptist Church is, now, and where the Elk's Club used to be, the shopping ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: East, East Village shopping.
MRS. PRESLEY: East, East Village Shopping Center. Or Elm Grove.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall, the family had a car, and your dad carpooled, so, I guess, the days he didn't have to drive, your mother used that ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... to run errands, and do family chores. What about your mother washing clothes. What do you remember? How did she do that?
MRS. PRESLEY: We always had a clothes washer. So, she washed them at home. But, I don't remember a dryer. We had a clothesline, out in the yard. And, that's where she hung the clothes to dry.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall the neighbors gathering at the clotheslines, and talking?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, up on California, they didn't really do that, because our house was backed up to the, what do you call it, the green space, or ... ?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Greenbelt.
MRS. PRESLEY: Greenbelt. It was, actually, up the hill from where one of those old, ‘40s-era, Boy Scout building was.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, what do you remember about that building.
MRS. PRESLEY: We visited on the front of the house, you know. Not at the clothesline, because there's was down, to the side of the house.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, that number on California, is that at the top or the bottom? Where is that?
MRS. PRESLEY: It's about four houses from the top, where it intersects with Outer Drive.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, you mentioned a Boy Scout building. Tell me about what you remember about that.
MRS. PRESLEY: It was, in my younger years, it existed, and I don't know whether it was torn down, or whether it fell down, because I'm sure it was not permanent structure, down there. But, there was a road access, that went, we were one ... between 197, and 199, California, there was an old road, that wasn't, or a walkway, that would lead down to that, in the Greenbelt area.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, that was just a building that the Scouts use.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You think.
MRS. PRESLEY: And there used to be one in the East Village, if you come up California, where that greenbelt is between California Avenue, and where East Village started, there was a Boy Scout thing over there. Near where Taylor Delaney lived.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, I, I recall the area, but I never did see that.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: As kids, you grew a, kind of, zones. You stayed in your own area ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... and neighborhood, unless you had to go out someplace.
MRS. PRESLEY: Except on Halloween, and it was a safe enough community, your parents just turned you loose on Halloween. You didn't have to walk with them, like you do now, and keep an eye on them.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What do you remember about trick or treating?
MRS. PRESLEY: I can remember starting out near the top of California Avenue, and walking all the way out Outer Drive. One year, when I was older, I went down Delaware, and up California.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's pretty steep terrain, isn't it?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, when you're young.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How long did it take you to do it?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't know, but (laughs) and that was the days before daylight savings time.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember the Y-12 whistle?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Big Toot, I think they called it?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah. I was far enough away I didn't hear it much, but my husband grew up with that in his back door.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about the civil defense sirens going off, do you remember those?
MRS. PRESLEY: Now, I do remember those.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I mean, even before they used to test them every day, at five o'clock. Before that, do you remember those going off, in the middle of the night, unexpectedly?
MRS. PRESLEY: I was such a heavy sleeper, I probably didn't hear them at night.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, well, probably I lived in an area where ...
MRS. PRESLEY: You were close to it, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... you heard it pretty good, yeah. That's pretty ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Because you were all, you were close to the plant.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, well, it's pretty startling when that goes off at two o'clock in the morning ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... and, your mother's panicking, your daddy's working, and she can't get to the radio. You supposed to turn a radio on, you know. That was the silliest thing I ever heard of, turn the radio on. They'd say, "This is a test. This is a test." But, two o'clock in the morning, there was no radio.
MRS. PRESLEY: And, now, they do it on TV. I've heard several in the last couple of days.
MR. HUNNICUTT: But, the information that the public got wasn't too good, in those days, about that kind of stuff.
MRS. PRESLEY: I, I relate those kind of sirens to the old days when people lived in houses that were close to railroad tracks, where the train came through. When, once you lived there for so long ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Never heard the train.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... you never heard them. (laughs) Got used to it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. Well, it's a memory, if you live in Oak Ridge, about the sirens. They go off on Wednesdays, I think, now, at noon ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... once a month, to check them. Did you ever ask your dad what he did at work, K-25, when you were growing up? What his work duty was?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember, really, being interested in, in the specifics of what he did. My main memory is that he was involved, or his job was under the auspices of the Medical Department, at K-25. It was a very friendly group, and they would have picnics. So, we knew the bosses, and all. I didn't really know specifically what he did, other than work in that department. My father-in-law also worked in that department, for a number of years. But, the, one of the side benefits, were that, if you had illness in the family, the doctors from K-25 would come check on your family. (laughs)
MR. HUNNICUTT: Oh, really? So, you got personal doctor service, huh?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah. My dad made homebrew, and one of them was musically talented, that moved here from Paducah. And, he'd come, and see us, and visit, and play the piano, with no music, and drink some of my dad's homebrew.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I bet the more he drink, the more he played, huh?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah. If I go too far in that direction, y'all ... (laughs)
MR. HUNNICUTT: All right. That's quite all right. That's the way it was, in the day.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah. He had a bad batch, one time, that got overheated. We went into the kitchen, and it was stored up at the top of the cabinets. They had remodeled the C house kitchen, and taken the, the furnace room, and the kitchen and put them together. It had cabinets, and he stored it up on the top, and, I guess, that's where the heat was, and where the homebrew was. It had popped the lids, and it was dripping down the cabinets. (laughs)
MR. HUNNICUTT: How did your mother handle that?
MRS. PRESLEY: We just cleaned it up.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Speaking of that C house, what do you recall about, tell me how it was designed?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, it was L-shaped, and after I married, Mother and Daddy added 12 feet onto the bedroom end, so they had a huge master bedroom on the back side, with their own private bath. The front bedroom had three or four extra feet added to it, and was enlarged with that addition. But the main thing I remember about that house is, it was built on a rock structure. My dad would set off small doses of dynamite, under the house, to fracture the big rock that was there. He would leave for work, and oldest of three girls, we had so many wheelbarrow loads that we had to carry out from under the house. We, we helped him dig the basement. The back yard used to be down, at an angle. We got enough dirt out from under that house, and rock, to build the back yard.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where did your dad get the dynamite? Do you recall?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't know.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Used to be able to go to Clinton.
MRS. PRESLEY: Probably.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I think it was ...
MRS. PRESLEY: To the Hendrickson's Hardware Store, probably.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's exactly what I was thinking about.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right along the river.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You know, that was a unique hardware.
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh, very.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You'd go in there, and they had anything, just about, and everything you ever thought of, things you didn't even know what was in there.
MRS. PRESLEY: That's where I learned what gin, ginseng was, because people would go in there, and sell ginseng to them.
MR. HUNNICUTT: They moved over in Clinton, over there, backside of where old Hammer's used to be ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... for a while, didn't they?
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: But, it never was the same store, after they moved.
MRS. PRESLEY: One of my daughter's best friend's mother worked for the Hammers. I, actually, have a cross made out of Bakelite that has Tennessee River pearls in it, that belonged to the Hendrickson family, that the friend's mother gave to me. It's a treasure.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I don't know whether you remember, or not, but you remember where Hammer's used to be there, in, on, what is that, Broad Street, or whatever it is?
MRS. PRESLEY: Main Street.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Main Street, when they first started, I think it was.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: There was a woman, two women, that used to get cardboard out of the back. And, this lady, I didn't know whether she's a woman or man, when I first saw her, because she wore a hat like a cab driver would wear. And, they had an old car, seemed like it was a Studebaker, or something of that nature. And, she'd get that cardboard out of that back, both of them, and stack it up, and put it in there, and then, tie it on the roof of that car.
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I would've never thought of that if we hadn't talked of this.
MRS. PRESLEY: What I remember about that location, where Hammer's is now, or where it used to be, on Main Street, Clinton, was the building that was there before that. We used to go to the Park Hotel there, and eat dinner in the old hotel that was on that corner, before they built, right across from the railroad tracks. And, that's another story. My Mom and Dad, from the time I was in about sixth grade, or, surely, seventh grade, would take me over to Clinton and, about six-thirty in the morning, and put me on the train, by myself, the Carolina Special that ran from Cincinnati, all the way to Charleston. I would ride 12 hours on that train, by myself, and get off in Orangeburg, three blocks from where my grandmother lived. They would meet me at the train, and I would go spend a number of weeks there, during the summer. Then, the reverse trip was, I'd get on in Orangeburg, and they would meet me in Knoxville, because they could pick me up earlier when I got there, and not have to go through the layover there, then come to Clinton, which would've made it a lot later. We could be home. But, you wouldn't do that in today's environment, put a child ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: One, there's no train to ride.
MRS. PRESLEY: No.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How old were you?
MRS. PRESLEY: Seventh grade, sixth, or seventh grade. I did that until I graduated high school, and went to college.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, what do you remember riding on the train?
MRS. PRESLEY: Riding?
MR. HUNNICUTT: What do you remember about riding on the train?
MRS. PRESLEY: The, the noise, and the rolling, and, of course, it wasn't air conditioned then. That's the first time I ever saw a woman nurse a baby in public, was on the train. You know, out in something like that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was the train crowded?
MRS. PRESLEY: It was, people did a lot of train travel, then. Probably more so than buses. We got to the mountains in North Carolina belong, beyond Asheville, one time, and I looked up, and here came one of my cousins down the aisle. She had been to church camp, in the summer, and I was headed to my other grandmother's house. She was on my daddy's side, and ... small world.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you got out ...
MRS. PRESLEY: I love trains.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you first boarded in Clinton, did, did you have a ticket, and the porter came down through there, and asked for tickets, or do you recall how that worked?
MRS. PRESLEY: I just got on, with my luggage, and ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have to sit ...
MRS. PRESLEY: ... rode the train.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... with your luggage?
MRS. PRESLEY: I think it was under the seat, or someplace like that. You didn't travel with a lot of luggage, back then. They would come through with snacks, or Mother would fix me a lunch. I don't ever remember going to the dining room by myself. Maybe, once, when I got older.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did they have a restroom on the train?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah. With an open hole to the track below. When you flushed, you saw the gravel on, on the tracks.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, was that during the time of segregation?
MRS. PRESLEY: It would've been, well, seventh grade, I would've been, what '50, 57, '56, 57. But, I don't remember seeing a lot of African Americans riding the train, back then.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember ...
MRS. PRESLEY: I just didn't notice the difference, if they were there, I didn't, we were just all ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... passengers.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How many times did you do that?
MRS. PRESLEY: Probably six, or seven times. My grandfather, who was deceased by the time I started riding the train, had been a freight master for the Southern railroad, and my mother grew up in a railroad house, right across from the train station in Orangeburg. So, trains were, sort of, in their blood.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that, do you recall, was that a diesel, or steam locomotive. Do you remember?
MRS. PRESLEY: I think it was steam. Once you left Knoxville, you followed the French Broad River, to get over the mountains.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, you started early of the morning, I guess, and got there in the afternoon.
MRS. PRESLEY: Six-thirty, and it was about, after six, it was about a 12-hour ride.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did the train have a layover anywhere, or a stop?
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh, yeah. Clinton, we left at Clinton, it stopped in Knoxville, it stopped in Asheville, it stopped in Spartanburg, it stopped in Columbia. Those are the ones that I remember, before we got to Orangeburg.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were the stops very long, or just for boarding, unboarding passengers.
MRS. PRESLEY: Ten or 15 minutes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was Christmas like at your house?
MRS. PRESLEY: It was ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Growing up, as a young girl, versus up through high school, let's say.
MRS. PRESLEY: We had one Christmas tree, a live tree, you know, not a lot of other decorations in the house, and one main gift per child. It was always anticipated, and looked forward to, and we had a stocking. But, it was church. I remember being in a Christmas play. The first play I was ever in was at the First Presbyterian Church in Oak Ridge. I was an angel at the Christmas play. So, there were activities like that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your family have a telephone in the early days, when you moved here?
MRS. PRESLEY: We always had a telephone with a five-digit number: 5-7-0-4-2.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were you on a party line?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember being on a party line, here. We might have been. The only party line memory I have is going to visit an aunt and uncle up in Kentucky, and they were on, in a smaller community, and they had a party line, but ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your family have any visitors during the time, you know, in '49's when they opened the gates, but prior to that, the city was ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Had to go meet them, to get them in. My grandmother would come visit us, both grandmothers.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember where you had to meet them?
MRS. PRESLEY: At Elza Gate.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Or, if my grandmother came through Elza Gate.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, I presume, your father had, or mother, whichever, had to make arrangements with the authorities to get a pass. Was there a requirement on how long a person could visit?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember it. It was just getting through the gates, and then, once you were in, I guess, the household you were visiting was responsible for that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember going in, and out through the gates?
MRS. PRESLEY: I still have my mother's pass, with her picture on it, and Bob's mom's pass.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, all right, well ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Of course, the daddys had their work badges.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I don't remember going through the gates, for some reason. Guess we didn't go.
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, my dad had a sister that was a teacher in Knoxville, so when we would go over there, to see her, we would go through the gates.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What do you remember about that experience?
MRS. PRESLEY: Just showing the adult badges, and driving through. I don't remember ever being held up, or anything.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You recall them searching the car when you came back, or anything?
MRS. PRESLEY: I don't remember that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. I think, in the early days, they did more of that ...
MRS. PRESLEY: The security, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, than they did later on, just like anything else, they get tired of looking in trunks.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let's talk about the Oak Ridge swimming pool. It's quite unique place to go to. What do you remember about it?
MRS. PRESLEY: Wonderful summer days there, learning to swim. That's, that's the most magnificent pool. I don't know anywhere that there's a bigger pool than that. I don't remember the day, swimming there before it was concreted in, but I know it used to be, like, a lake, spring-fed lake. Then, they ultimately concreted it in. But, I remember the Olympic lines, and the, where you could go jump off the deep end, and, and it had a nice beach area, and I took swimming lessons there. I actually saw my swimming teacher, at the Secret City Festival, one June.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's one, one other unique thing about the Oak Ridge swimming pool that you haven't mentioned. It was spring-fed, and the water was cold.
MRS. PRESLEY: It was.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Very cold.
MRS. PRESLEY: But, it's like going tubing in the river. Once you get used to that, it feels good. My husband, Bob, was a lifeguard there, in summers, when we dated.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's a good job for young kids. That gives them responsibility, and makes a little money for them, as well. What do you remember about the municipal market building? And, I may have to give you a little more clues to that.
MRS. PRESLEY: Is that where Downtown is now?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, not exactly.
MRS. PRESLEY: Or is it the one that was out east?
MR. HUNNICUTT: It's where, it was behind CN, where CVS is, and that's where Lizz's Market was, at one time, and WA Tillery [sp?]...
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh, ok, I remember Lizz's Market.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. That, that's what the right name for that building was. That was, kind of, did you ever go shopping, or with your mother, or yourself in Lizz's Market?
MRS. PRESLEY: We did. But, I think, most of our shopping was done at Elm Grove, or Jackson Square, or East Village.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MRS. PRESLEY: Or Outer Drive.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about, let's talk about Jackson Square, a little bit. What do you remember, as a child, in Jackson Square?
MRS. PRESLEY: Jackson Square Hardware, and the movie theaters. My memory of the movie theaters is, when you went to the movies, it cost nine cents, back then, to see a movie, if I recall that right. I used to have money to buy popcorn, and a drink, above that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Twenty-five cents would go a long way, wouldn't it?
MRS. PRESLEY: It will, it did. One of the other special things that I remember Jackson Square is, when Friedman's Jewelry Store was there, next to where Samuel's was. And, Max Friedman, who was the owner, was the uncle of Hymie Billig, and Hymie was a classmate, and a friend of my dad's, growing up in Columbia, South Carolina. So, he was our jeweler. If we had any needs, we went to Friedman's Jewelry Store.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, if you're looking at Samuel's, which side of Samuel's would that've been on?
MRS. PRESLEY: On the left.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Between Samuel's, and the shoe store?
MRS. PRESLEY: Near, maybe, next door to Hall's.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The shoe store, Hall's Shoe Store.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah. I, that's another memory. I made a note for you about that, because I can remember going to Hall's, and having my feet measured, and having custom-made sandal, leather sandals made at Hall's Shoes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You recall, every time ...
MRS. PRESLEY: I love family-owned businesses.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... every time you went in the store, they had shoes for sale. You'd sit down and, of course, the clerk would come out, and they had a way of measuring your feet, supposedly, to fit the shoes. I don't know how accurate that was.
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, it was like a measuring, a metal measuring thing.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Guess it's the most ...
MRS. PRESLEY: And, they added a little extra for your toe room.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did girls have a tendency to want to buy shoes smaller than their actual size?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: (laughs) Why is that?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, because I, finally, got a, I don't know whether it's vain, or just not knowing, or knowing that your feet are going to hurt when you wear dress shoes. And then, when you get to be older, when your feet hurt, you hurt all over, and you learn to go bigger, and more comfortable with your shoe size.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me what else you did for pleasure, other than the swimming pool, and the movie theaters.
MRS. PRESLEY: Reading. I knitted, once I learned how to knit, I did a good bit of knitting. I picked up crocheting later, but I, being the oldest child, with a household that, where Dad's income raised us all, but there wasn't a lot of extra activities. I didn't get to take dancing, and do things like that. I was in the Brownies, and Girl Scouts, for a while. But, my main activity was church-related, through the youth group.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What church did your family attend?
MRS. PRESLEY: First Presbyterian. My dad was on the committee to sign the paperwork, to build the existing First Presbyterian Church. Because we started, when we joined, we were meeting up at New York Avenue, in the gymnasium, for church.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, where did the original church, where was it built?
MRS. PRESLEY: First Presbyterian is where it is now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where is that?
MRS. PRESLEY: At the corner of Lafayette, and the Turnpike.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Right. I just wanted you to ...
MRS. PRESLEY: You're making me think.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I just wanted you to tell me. (laughs)
MRS. PRESLEY: You're giving me a test.
MR. HUNNICUTT: All this is a test. (laughter) Do you recall, when they opened the gates, and had the parade here, do you remember going to that?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yes. Well, let me tell you this: I don't remember me being there. I remember that because Bob, and his family, were there. They were there watching the parade. I don't know that my parents went, be ... I don't remember being there in person. What I remember is the 60th anniversary.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Oh, of the city?
MRS. PRESLEY: When the, the gate opening.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah.
MRS. PRESLEY: That's when the flattop house was dedicated.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. We'll get to that in just a minute. The Grove Theater was a little different, I thought, than the other theaters just for the fact that, seemed like they showed better grade movies. Is that your opinion?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, I think it was, probably, more centrally located in Oak Ridge, the way the residential communities were, and the better parking, and all. Because The Ridge didn't used to have that parking, across the street, that they do now. That was green, so ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, the Center's the bigger theater of all the theaters, indoor theaters.
MRS. PRESLEY: I remember going to see the Center, you know, what is that, Jefferson, or down that way?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Jefferson.
MRS. PRESLEY: That's where I saw the movie of the coronation of Queen Elizabeth, in that theater.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That theater later became the Wayne Theater, down at Jefferson.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Probably, in our time it was Wayne.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: We're too young for the Jefferson.
MRS. PRESLEY: But the neat thing about the theaters is, that a future aunt of Bob's family, who was a family friend, at that point, from Middle Tennessee, worked at The Ridge, and his uncle ended up working at The Grove. Bob ushered, primarily, well, he ushered at both of the theaters. But when he, and I, started dating, our senior year in high school, and after that, until we were married, if we wanted to go see a movie, we got in free, because his connection at The Ridge, and The Grove. So, it was Friday night at one, and Saturday night at the other.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What year did you graduate from high school?
MRS. PRESLEY: 1962.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, what did you do after you graduated?
MRS. PRESLEY: I stayed off that summer, and had been accepted at East Tennessee College, it was back then, the year I was there, it was changed to East Tennessee State University. I started out as a business major, but I, and we were on the quarter system then, instead of semesters. The spring quarter, the third quarter of that first year, I got a diamond, from Bob. When I got home, in June, my mom said, "If you're going to get married, you can just get you a job." So, I never went back to school. I tell people I got an MRS, instead of a BS, (laughter) from that one year of college.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where were you, and what do you remember about, when you heard about, President Kennedy being shot.
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, I went to work in June of 1963, at Y-12. And, Kennedy was shot in November of 1963, Thanksgiving week. We had the PA, Public Announce system, from the plant shift, shift superintendent's office at Y-12, and I remember hearing the announcement that President Kennedy had been killed. Standing in that hallway, near the speakers, and all of us just, almost, motionless, and stupefied by the news. That set off days of mourning, nationally, through the US. They even closed the plant, and made a national holiday, the day of his funeral, so we could all stay home, and watch the proceedings on TV.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall any security change at Y-12, when that happened?
MRS. PRESLEY: It geared up. The other part of that day is, Bob was on Fort Knox base, going through basic training to be in the Tennessee Army National Guard. We were going up to see him that weekend, because it was Thanksgiving. We didn't know whether he'd get off base, or whether they would confine all the military to the base, but then, the news came out that James Earl Ray [Lee Harvey Oswald] had shot Kennedy, and, and we were, actually, at his aunt's house up there, just off of Fort Knox base, at Radcliff, Kentucky, watching the proceedings on TV, when they were moving James Earl Ray, and we saw Osborn [Jack Ruby] shoot him. So, that's a big snapshot in my growing up years.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let's, let's talk about you and Bob. Where and when did you get married?
MRS. PRESLEY: Where, and when. We married in the Presbyterian Church in Oak Ridge, on December the nineteenth, 1964. It snowed that day. Mr. Bob was worried that he wasn't going to get out of town, and across the Solway Bridge, to his honeymoon in Gatlinburg (laughs) because of the snow that day. But, we made it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, tell me where you first met Bob. Was that in high school?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, actually, Bob and I had known each other since we were five-years-old, because we grew up in the same church. Our parents, my parents were members there before his parents joined, but we grew up in the same church. Then, when we got involved with the youth group, Gordon Ripper was our youth director, at the church there, and he was wonderful with the teens. But, Bob and I were friends, on that level, and he was dating a girl that had gone to Jefferson. Of course, Bob was a Robertsville student, in junior high. So, he, they had some problems, and he, I don't even remember the situation now, but he came to me with his problems with his girlfriend and, I tell people, I guess I fixed them. Because he showed up at my house, in the snow, at the top of California Avenue, on New Year's Eve, the year we were seniors in high school. And, after that, we were never apart again.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have strict dating rules, when you were dating Bob?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yes. The front porch light would get -- if we were spooning out, out on the street, and Mother heard us drive up, she'd be watching for us -- the front porch light would get flickered, and that meant it was time to come in.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have a curfew time?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yes. Back then, that house hadn't been added onto, and there was just the central living room. So, if you had a date, the whole family was there watching TV, because the houses only had one TV, back then.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was the curfew time? Do you recall?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, usually, it was around 11, 11:30, unless it was a, a dance or something. I got to stay out all night, first time, or pretty late at night, for junior prom.
MR. HUNNICUTT: If you were, you, and Bob, were outside, and the porch light came on ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Parking in the front of security. (laughs)
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... did that, also, give him the, the ability to be able to come in the house, and stay longer, or did he have to leave.
MRS. PRESLEY: No, usually, that was, "Good night." I don't even remember him walking me to the door, if Mother was standing there. I just went in.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was he afraid of your parents?
MRS. PRESLEY: No. No.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you have a, some pictures there of your mother's badge. Let's show that a minute.
MRS. PRESLEY: This is Bob's mother's badge.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Bob's mother's ...
MRS. PRESLEY: I, my, I should've brought it, but ... that's Charlcie Presley
OFF CAMERA VOICE: Down, for the light ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Is that better?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. Move your finger there, a minute.
MRS. PRESLEY: And, that was her security badge. She had to use that every day, because she was a teacher in Clinton, at the elementary school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So, the way that worked was, if you left the area, you had to have that badge to get back in, also.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I'm sure there was ways to getting back in, if you'd forgot your badge, and left, but that was what you were supposed to carry with you, at all times.
MRS. PRESLEY: Probably had to have somebody from the family come meet you, or the employee with an employee badge, I don't know.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. Well, point out some of the people in that.
MRS. PRESLEY: Ok. Is it? This is Charles and Charlcie Presley.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's Bob's parents?
MRS. PRESLEY: His parents, on the day they got married. His dad had, that's an interesting story. They became engaged on December 7, 1941. Bob's dad was in the National Guard unit, in Cookeville, and he had also been in the CCCs, and migrated into the National Guard for an income, and all. But, he got called to active duty that night. They were with a teaching friend of his mother, and they became engaged that night. Well, he went to, in the Army, and ended up out at the Presidio, and Camp Roberts, out in California. When he came back, he was diagnosed with tuberculosis, and he was in a, they called them sanitariums, for TB patients, out in California. Then he moved to one at Hopkinsville, Kentucky, and that's where that picture is made. And that's, she got on a bus, at Cookeville, Putnam County, rode up there, and married him. The preacher's wife was the observer for the wedding. She got on the bus, and came back home to her family, and then, that was in October the 21st of 1942.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And then, they came to Oak Ridge to work, he did?
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah, when he got out of the service, and got home, she taught, and he worked in Putnam County, for a while. Then, Bob was born in '44, and when he was six weeks old, they moved, rented a room, and had bathroom and kitchen privileges, in Knoxville, near St. Mary's hospital, with a family, because that's what you did back then.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, what did he do, here at, during the Manhattan Project?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, they both had very, almost, austere family backgrounds, because Bob's dad had to quit school in eighth grade. He was the oldest of four children, and his mother died of tuberculosis. There was a lot of people that had tuberculosis in that community, and other areas, back then. So, he quit school, and took care of his three younger siblings. His dad was, basically, a share crop farmer, where they rented, lived on property, and he helped till the land. They never owned a house, at all. When Bob was born, at six weeks old, they came to Knoxville, and on the GI Bill, and he was going to go to school. He did get his GED, but he just didn't like the learning environment. So, he ... After, they didn't live in that place near St. Mary's in Knoxville very long. They moved to, out off of, near West High School, in Knoxville. Sutherland Avenue, I guess it is. There was a neighborhood out there, that had houses built, almost like houses you would see on a military base, for veterans, GI Bill. For them to have a place to live. It was a family friend, that had a three-bedroom house, and they took up residence there for a while, while his dad got a job in Oak Ridge, when he decided not to go to school any more. He came to work at K-25, and his first job there was fitting safety shoes, which everybody had to wear back then, with the steel toes to protect your feet, at K-25. I guess, he got mentored into it, but he, too, went to work in the Medical Department, and became, like, a lab technician, doing blood samples, and things like that. Then, he evolved from that into being an optician, and fitting the safety glasses that people wore. Ultimately, that led him to getting certified, through the State of Tennessee, and he was laid off at K-25, when they had some of those big lay-offs there, in late '50s. He went to work for the Christenberry Optical Dispensary, or hospital, that was downtown, near where the, is it the Hilton, is built, now? In the downtown area.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I don't know.
MRS. PRESLEY: It was an old, like, an old house, and he went to work for Christenberry Optical for a number of years. Then, ultimately, he opened Presley Optical Dispensary, in Oak Ridge, which was next door to where the Snow White was, on the, what is now, the Methodist Medical Center property.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me about the flattop house that's located at the American Museum of Science Energy. It's got a connection with you. What is that?
MRS. PRESLEY: It is. Because of Bob's work at Y-12, and our involvement with the community, he had friends at the museum. After we moved to Seymour, I was riding with him a lot, because his mother still lived in Anderson County, and we hadn't sold our house out between Oak Ridge, and Clinton. One day, I stopped by the museum, and Lissa Clarke, who was the public affairs person there, said, "Louise, are you and Bob coming to the gate opening ceremony, and the flattop dedication, the 60th anniversary?" And, I said, "We’ll be here Saturday, for the gate opening, but we hadn't planned to be at the flattop dedication. But, you know Bob, and his mom, and dad, lived at 68 Outer Drive." And, her mouth flew open, and she made a wheelie to go into her office, and picked up the draft of the program, for the flattop house dedication. She came out, and she said, "Louise, that house came from 68 Outer Drive." So, of course, we were there for the dedication, and, their pictures, like the wedding day picture, and some pictures of Bob, as a toddler, on a tricycle, in the flattop house. We also gave them, before it opened, a wooden shipping crate, for a set of encyclopedias that his parents had ordered, that was mailed to that address, and it has the shipping label that says, "Charles Presley, 68 Outer Drive." So, that verified it. It was dated October of '49, so they moved there when Bob was, probably, two and a half, three-years-old, which would've been the '46, '47 time frame, and lived there until Dec, January, of 1950, I believe it was. They moved to a Woodland block house, there on the corner of South Purdue, and Manhattan, I believe, it is. The sidewalks weren't even paved. The house was just barely finished when they moved into it. But, the reason they moved there, and, I guess, had priority as renters there, was -- the story is that the water tower, above the hill from 68 Outer Drive, had leaked, and had come across, down the hill, and across the road, and had weakened the underpinning of the flattop house, which was located there, just a couple of doors from Outer Drive Shopping Center.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Those flattops, kind of, sit down below the road, if I remember right.
MRS. PRESLEY: It did. It did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, there were two water tanks. One was wood, and one was metal, like it is, now.
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The wooden one's the one that sprung a leak. But, there was something else that I remember Bob telling me about that day, was when he was out there, and people would come in, and he'd say, "Welcome to my house." They had no clue what he's talking about, and he explained that to them.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's, kind of, unique situation, there.
MRS. PRESLEY: The museum has a little 90 second video of him talking about that being his house, and they took our granddaughter with us, that day, and all. But his favorite tale, when he got through talking about the house, was to say, "Abe Lincoln, and I, have our childhood homes in museums." (laughter)
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. You have a couple of other photographs there. This is the ...
MRS. PRESLEY: This is a memory board that I did after Bob passed away. And, this is him, as a child, can you see it?
OFF CAMERA VOICE: Just tilt it forward. There you go.
MRS. PRESLEY: In Putnam County, before they moved, or they were visiting. They already lived in this area, but they'd go back there. His grandfather still lived there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's at the flattop, right there.
MRS. PRESLEY: This is in front of the flattop, and that's the hill, behind him, where the water tower released the water, and came across the road. This was at Fort Knox, Kentucky, when he was in basic training for the Tennessee Army National Guard. And, that was, probably, Don remembers that view, probably, at Woodland.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes, it was.
MRS. PRESLEY: This was the day, that was our last date, before he went off to basic training, and we were up at Clingman's Dome. Now, you talk about a mama being worried, knowing he was going off to the military, she thought, she didn't want me to go that day, because she thought we were going to run off to Georgia, and get married, like (laughs) a lot of other young people did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, this is the ...
MRS. PRESLEY: And then, this is ...
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... flattop.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... Bob, standing on the porch of the flattop, the day we did the filming, for that 90 second video, for the museum. And, that's our granddaughter, Kendall, standing beside us.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, Bob was involved a lot with the county fairs, wasn't he?
MRS. PRESLEY: That's a horseshoe pitching contest. We, actually, started out volunteering in our late, in our 20s, as the Jaycees and Jaycettes, in Oak Ridge. When we aged out, at 36, we got involved with Anderson County Fair. That was about, he was, probably, about that age, and he was doing horseshoe pitching contests. That evolved into him being the Tennessee Association of Fairs State President, in 1992. We visited 36 fairs, that year, all the way from Gray, to the Mid-South Fair in Memphis. The Appalachian Fair at Gray. So, we have friends through the Jaycees, and the state fair organization, all across Tennessee. It opened up wide friends for us, and my granddaughter, to this day, will say, "GaGa," -- that's my grandmother name, GaGa -- "who're we going to see that you know today." I said, "You just stay tuned. You just never know."
MR. HUNNICUTT: Bob had a long career of Y-12, as well, and he had a lot of VIPs that came to the plant. He'd, he did a lot of escorting for them, I remember. And, was the, I guess, I used to call him, the Premier Director for Y-12, for visitors. Did a great job with that. Oak Ridge is such a unique place. It's very difficult to cover everything that happened in our lives, or, or tell about those things. Is there anything, that comes to mind, that we haven't covered, that you'd like to speak about?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, work, I worked at Y-12 for 36 and a half years. I was in an administrative capacity, and I worked in human resources, and salary administration. So, I knew people, by names, and faces. Names, and, maybe, not faces, or whatever. It was a unique group to work in. Then, I moved to the production area. Bob's work history was different. He worked for Dr. Kyle, in the early years of our marriage. He sold cars at Watlington Chrysler Plymouth, that was on Melton Lake Drive, for a little while. And then, he got a job with Dr. Kyle. Well, actually, I guess, he worked at the Comparative Animal Research Lab, for a while. My dad had left K-25 when they had a lay-off, and gone out there as their safety engineer, for a number of years.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let me ask you a question about that. Where was that located?
MRS. PRESLEY: On Scarboro Road.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That's where Scarboro School used to be.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right, that was the office for that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And, do you recall, can you tell me anything, information about that operation out there?
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, my dad was the safety engineer, and they're, you know, some of the employees lived in the farmhouses, that were located just across the road from that location. When Bob went to work there, he was, sort of, the yard man, for mowing the fields, and all. He would help, that was probably his first exposure to radiation, because he would help deliver pig fetuses, for research, and help radiate them. I'm sure he wasn't monitored, or anything, back then. So, when he finished that job, he got an opportunity to go to the Mouse House, at Y-12, Biology Division, located on the Y-12 site. He worked there, for a while. That's an interesting story, because that was the early days of unionization of the biology workers. Bob just really didn't want to be in that environment and, because, I guess, likely, because I was working in human resources, and, fortunately, had contact, I said, he would like to transfer to another position. So, he was transferred from an animal handler in biology, to being a dispatcher, at Y-12, which put him in the production area, hands-on, moving product, radiation parts from shop to shop. Eating lunch in those areas. He ended up, eventually, he always had good, he almost had a college degree, but he never finished. He had three plus years of college, but he had a good engineering background, and he moved into product engineering. He was, more or less, mentored into being an engineer. He was an engineering assistant, and then, a senior engineering assistant, then a staff engineer. That led him to being a special production nuclear weapons engineer. He would travel to Albuquerque, Los Alamos, Livermore, Pantex, and the different sites. At the Nevada Test Site, outside of Las Vegas, he even went down into the holes to set up shots, for testing out there. So, he had a unique experience. When the Cold War came, and that started trimming down the efforts in that area, he knew the buildings in Y-12, because of his experience with dispatching, and having worked in the east end in biology, and all. He had done tours, even when he was in product engineering. Gordon Fee, at that time, became the president of the, I guess, it was under Martin-Marietta, because Carbide had gone, as a contractor. Gordon arranged for Bob to be provided with a 15-passenger van, and when they had dignitary people, or important people come to visit the plant, he got a commercial driver’s license certification through the State of Tennessee, and he would drive, with either Fee, and DOE [Department of Energy] managers.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I don't remember, at that time. Go ahead, though.
MRS. PRESLEY: Ok. But, with ... LaGrone, Joe LaGrone. He would take DOE, and corporate, Martin-Marietta, people, and they included secretaries of the state. I can remember a vivid tale about Bill Richardson, when he was Secretary of the Department of Energy.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Defense?
MRS. PRESLEY: Department of Energy.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Department of Energy.
MRS. PRESLEY: ... being there, and some of the tales he could, he could've written a book about the stories with these people. Governors, and he helped with the tours, when the President would come, on one occasion, to Oak Ridge. So, he had a, a unique background, and perspective, and he knew the buildings in Y-12, and, basically, what had gone on there, and he could give unclassified statements about that to the visitors. Because of that knowledge, and work history, on the Friday before 9/11, which I think was the seventh of September, 2001, we got home late in the afternoon, six or seven o'clock, and there was a voice message left on our telephone line. A call to Bob from the White House. He thought it was too late to call back that day, so he waited until Monday morning to call the White House, and they got a little, fussed at him a little bit because he didn't call back. But, the reason for the call was to tell him that he had a presidential nomination to the Advisory Board on Radiation and Worker Health, which is the Sick Worker Bill for the nuclear weapons complex people. He had to go through a confirmation process, just like you were going to be secretary of the state. We had to bare every penny of everything we owned, and where -- he, and I -- to be approved for that. But, once it was approved, he went to his first meeting on that advisory board, in Washington, D.C., in January of 2002. And, he served on that until he passed away, in September 2011, five years ago.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let me back you up a minute, to the research. And, the reason I'm doing that is because there's not much information available on that. And your, Bob's father worked there, as well.
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did Bob's father have any exposure that might've contributed to his passing, that you know of?
MRS. PRESLEY: No, not that I know of. I think, I don't know where he did the safety shoes, whether that was, probably, in a stores department, back then, if I remember how we operated at Y-12. But, he wasn't out, in the plant, as much, as my dad was at K-25. And, he passed away of Parkinson's, and then, ultimately, a stroke.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, that research hospital was where they brought ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... animals back from nuclear blast, being exposed to ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... above ground nuclear blast?
MRS. PRESLEY: The Alamogordo test cattle, offspring, were brought to the Comparative Animal Research Lab, which was UT, University of Tennessee, and the, I guess, DOE provided the comparative animal research federal funding. So, Bob was, Bob was, that was, probably, his first exposure to the radiation materials. The irony there is that my dad was the safety engineer part of the time that he was employed there. And, a trained (siren sound went off as we were talking, in the background) industrial hygienist. (laughs)
MR. HUNNICUTT: Speaking of the alarm ...
MRS. PRESLEY: (laughs) That's the siren.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The siren, it must be 12 o'clock.
MRS. PRESLEY: Must be 12 o'clock, on Wednesday.
OFF CAMERA VOICE: First Wednesday.
MR. HUNNICUTT: First Wednesday in the month.
MRS. PRESLEY: It is.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, there's some other people that have some ties to that, that died later. One individual that we went to school with, I'm not going to mention a name. His father worked there, and he got exposed, and he did pass away, later. But ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Many of Bob's coworkers died of the exposure.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. But, we don't have much about that, and, I guess, they don't publicize much about that, but all that prop, all that property, that, where that new road goes through, out at, going toward Solway.
MRS. PRESLEY: To Carbide Park?
MR. HUNNICUTT: No.
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh.
MR. HUNNICUTT: From the new four-lane that goes out of Oak Ridge, and out through, parallel to the cemetery.
MRS. PRESLEY: Oh, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That was pasture area, for all those animals ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Correct.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... to graze in.
MRS. PRESLEY: Correct.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, I can ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Well, what year was the cemetery built? That was part of the farm, I think, where the cemetery is. Was it not?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Well, the original ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Or, it's adjacent to it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes. It was. The original road came down there in front of the cemetery, just a two-lane.
MRS. PRESLEY: I can remember the names of some of the families that lived in those two farmhouses, over there. Toliver Thomas, and his family, and Bob Reynolds, and his family, and then, the superintendent was ... I've drawn a blank. He had kids a little younger than we did. But, he lived in the first house, which backs up, now, to where the garden, the UT garden, experimental garden is.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah, there was about three, four, original farmhouses.
MRS. PRESLEY: Three, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And then, on down, where you went across the original ...
MRS. PRESLEY: There were some farmhouses there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... Solway Bridge, on that little peninsula, the Davis family, that ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... we went to school with ...
MRS. PRESLEY: Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: ... lived in that house.
MRS. PRESLEY: And my dad worked, and Bob worked, with all of those.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yeah. Well, it's been a pleasure interviewing you. And, I'm, we could sit here three, or four more hours, and talk about Oak Ridge. It's, it's just a unique place to grow up in. And, I want to thank you for your time.
MRS. PRESLEY: Thank you.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Thank you.
[End of Interview]
[Editor’s Note: Portions of this transcript have been edited at Mrs. Presley’s request. The corresponding audio and video components have remained unchanged.]