Thats nitpicking. It's the same raiding game just at the easy difficulty. And it has to be easy as it isnt an unorganized raid tier.

There are almost no similarities between NM raiding and LFR, aside from the fact that you're pushing buttons to defeat the same monster. There is no teamwork or coordination involved at all in LFR, which is the quintessential element of normal raiding.

There are almost no similarities between NM raiding and LFR, aside from the fact that you're pushing buttons to defeat the same monster. There is no teamwork or coordination involved at all in LFR, which is the quintessential element of normal raiding.

The main reason people don't raid is because their guild doesn't or are giving up. My first real break from raiding was in WotLK when my guild at the time decided to stop raiding during the summer (same year as Cataclysm was gonna come out) so I took a break aswell. THen after summer I came back and joined a new guild and started raiding again.

So basicly as soon as you see you starting to lose people (or you think you are going to lose people) find new ones to replace them ASAP! It is much better to have reserves than it is to not raid at all. Almost all guilds I have been in during Mists of Pandaria have recruited just enough to raid, but almost never have any reserves at all. I wouldn't mind at all to be left out of raiding a bit now and then if it meant we are still raiding on all guild raid nights.

The main reason people don't raid is because their guild doesn't or are giving up. My first real break from raiding was in WotLK when my guild at the time decided to stop raiding during the summer (same year as Cataclysm was gonna come out) so I took a break aswell. THen after summer I came back and joined a new guild and started raiding again.

So basicly as soon as you see you starting to lose people (or you think you are going to lose people) find new ones to replace them ASAP! It is much better to have reserves than it is to not raid at all. Almost all guilds I have been in during Mists of Pandaria have recruited just enough to raid, but almost never have any reserves at all. I wouldn't mind at all to be left out of raiding a bit now and then if it meant we are still raiding on all guild raid nights.

What you say is very true and the correct way to manage a good guild.

BUT, OP is saying that they try to do this - and that recently it's as if there are no other raiders to recruit (dwindling population) or there are no recruitment offers from the few guilds he sees that are still raiding. My theory is that it's LFRs fault, there are other theories about the age of the game and whatnot. But I think OP knows how to recruit and keep a guild going.. he is saying there is no one to recruit.

---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 10:16 AM ----------

Originally Posted by namelessone

Unless you show me a quote from the game supporting this, this is merely your opinion, and therefore, wrong.

Strange that someone stating something that is their opinion is simply wrong because it is an opinion. I guess no one has ever had a right opinion?

I think the problem is the number of people who are actually interested in raiding was never to big to begin with. I personally find normal raids insanely boring. I'm not a raider. Thing is, before I was FORCED into raids because there was no other way to advance my character beyond a certain point. I think this might have been the case with a lot of players - they didn't raid because they loved it, they raided because it was the only way to get gear past heroics.

As I stated earlier, LFR raiding is fine with me. Between working 11-12 hours a day, traveling and being married, I don't have time to commit to a normal raiding guild with set times, etc. Jumping into LFR while doing dailies or anything else in between is just fine with me.

The main reason people don't raid is because their guild doesn't or are giving up. My first real break from raiding was in WotLK when my guild at the time decided to stop raiding during the summer (same year as Cataclysm was gonna come out) so I took a break aswell. THen after summer I came back and joined a new guild and started raiding again.

So basicly as soon as you see you starting to lose people (or you think you are going to lose people) find new ones to replace them ASAP! It is much better to have reserves than it is to not raid at all. Almost all guilds I have been in during Mists of Pandaria have recruited just enough to raid, but almost never have any reserves at all. I wouldn't mind at all to be left out of raiding a bit now and then if it meant we are still raiding on all guild raid nights.

you sound like exactly the type of player we look for mind set wise. you do not know how tiring it is to lose people who just cannot understand that you do on occasion have to switch up classes in order to move forward and get butt hurt when their favorite class is the one that has to sit out a boss or two.

To be honest allot of the problems in this tier come form the fact they switched it up to a full tier of mechanical challenges vs a mix of dps check and mechanical fights.

Thus instead of having some easier mechanical fights and then being road blocked by a dps / gear check 4-5 bosses in it was 1 dps check boss and BAM mechanical check! The problem it has created form what I can see is there is no longer the 3-4 bosses to farm up gear to overcome the traditional "gear check boss" and many normal / avg groups are being road blocked now with no gear up path. To say go back and do T14 heroics for gear to a normal guild is the equivalent of saying "throw more time at horridon you will get it". If they fail at mechanical fights then they will fail at T14 heroics as the harder part of those fights are the new mechanics and 10% less dmg and hp wont trivialize the mechanics!

What they should have done to be honest was have a little less mechanical cap for bosses #2 and 3 and then used a traditional wall on 4... did not need to be dps/gear check wall could have been a huge mechanical wall that would have slowly been chipped away with better gear! This would have given "normal" raiders 3 bosses to farm and 1 to work on thus you keep them coming back for more > keep bashing head on the Horridon wall and if you don't like it...you can lfr and wipe to t14 hard modes ...have fun!

For myself I like the difficulty as it is giving our group a nice challenge. Then again we only raid 4 hours a week but our group has a couple of old timers that use to be server first players that just don't have the time we use to. Thus for us this tier provides just the right amount of difficulty for our time invested to keep us at about 1 progress kill per week... but I can see where it would road block a similar guild time wise that did not have previously "hard core" raiders to buffer the lower amount of time.

I would not call the 2nd or 3rd boss normal tuned atm ..it's more Hard mode Diet or HM light :P

The main reason people don't raid is because their guild doesn't or are giving up. My first real break from raiding was in WotLK when my guild at the time decided to stop raiding during the summer (same year as Cataclysm was gonna come out) so I took a break aswell. THen after summer I came back and joined a new guild and started raiding again.

So basicly as soon as you see you starting to lose people (or you think you are going to lose people) find new ones to replace them ASAP! It is much better to have reserves than it is to not raid at all. Almost all guilds I have been in during Mists of Pandaria have recruited just enough to raid, but almost never have any reserves at all. I wouldn't mind at all to be left out of raiding a bit now and then if it meant we are still raiding on all guild raid nights.

What you are saying is the exact formula that raiding guilds survived on. This is also the reason I started this forum because it is no an option. There used to be such a surplus that you would have some back ups that were fine with only being replacement but those are the same people that are cool with just running lfr. The casuals were a saving grace in the past because they were there to fill in when needed but now they have ran their lfr and are doing 9000 daillies so they can get their valor gear to look better in lfr.

Well we getting older.Start a job most have wifes and familly.For me every year the time who i spend in WoW for raiding become smaller and smaller mine guild for example was raiding 5 days back in Wrath now we raid 3 days and have half hour cut off from raid time

A group of people getting together to do something bigger than usual, it feels epic and rewarding.

Ok so you want to raid but cannot commit the time, if you can't do 2 nights a week then raiding is not for you. Do not drag down the rest of the population. I’ve always saw this as bullshit any way. I’ll see people who say they can’t commit a little bit of time to raiding but then are in LFR on various alts 5 nights a week.

Raiding should be an option but not anyone’s right to be able to be coddled like a child through content. Anything worth doing should be at least some sort of commitment, but that percentage of people who need instant gratification and “gimme” attitudes really hold back the original intent of what Blizz tried to capture with raiding.

There will be those that feel the journey and payoff should mean something and those that want it spoon fed to them. There will always be this imbalance but the RIGHT thing to do it obvious. You want to raid then fucking raid, do not turn it into some bullshit of dragging content down to the lowest skill set and/or work ethic. Do not need to cater to the top 10% either but come on...it’s fucking raiding.