Obamanomics on parade: Hey, how about a minimum-wage hike to help the middle class?

posted at 12:41 pm on February 13, 2013 by Erika Johnsen

President Obama threw around quite a few deliberately misleading ‘statistics’ and ‘facts’ last night during his State of the Union, but among the most stupidly egregious was his claim (nay, his refrain) that the corporate world is currently rolling in the chips at the direct expense of the middle class, and that the middle class’s dire straits can only be absolved with more forcible big-government engineering: “Corporate profits have rocketed to all-time highs – but for more than a decade, wages and incomes have barely budged.”

Okay, President Obama, have it your way — the average hourly wage in real dollars has in fact been pretty flat for about fifty years, but wages and incomes are far from necessarily accurate measures of the economic growth and prosperity that make everyone better off. This is what economic growth really means: Not that incomes’ numerical value is increasing (which can be entirely meaningless, thanks to inflation), but that those incomes’ purchasing power is increasing.

Now, it is definitely true that our economy has struggled to create jobs and wealth throughout this longtime economic “recovery” — which is stubbornly lingering because of the many top-heavy, overly bureaucratic and regulatory, growth-discouraging progressive policies under which businesses have been fighting for survival in the past few years. One of President Obama’s proffered solutions to this pickle? More government intervention and completely fake stimulus, obviously:

We know our economy is stronger when we reward an honest day’s work with honest wages. But today, a full-time worker making the minimum wage earns $14,500 a year. Even with the tax relief we’ve put in place, a family with two kids that earns the minimum wage still lives below the poverty line. That’s wrong. That’s why, since the last time this Congress raised the minimum wage, nineteen states have chosen to bump theirs even higher.

Tonight, let’s declare that in the wealthiest nation on Earth, no one who works full-time should have to live in poverty, and raise the federal minimum wage to $9.00 an hour. This single step would raise the incomes of millions of working families. It could mean the difference between groceries or the food bank; rent or eviction; scraping by or finally getting ahead. For businesses across the country, it would mean customers with more money in their pockets. In fact, working folks shouldn’t have to wait year after year for the minimum wage to go up while CEO pay has never been higher.

Out of what magical hiding place is all of this extra money for minimum wage hikes supposed to come from? From the greedy, hoard-happy CEOs yucking it up over the little people? Wrong-o: This proposed minimum wage increase would make itself felt in the rest of the economy in any of several ways, mostly via higher prices and fewer jobs.

Higher prices and fewer jobs do not grow the economy, do not stimulate the middle class, do not enhance anyone’s purchasing power, and in the long run make everybody worse off. Just like pretty much all “well-meaning” government mega-programs and regulations meant specifically to stave off poverty, ever, the regressive consequences end up hurting the very people they’re meant to help.

I mean, come on; out of everything he might’ve proposed, a mandated minimum wage hike is practically tailor-made to worsen our national unemployment rate:

But the business community says it would be a job killer. A minimum wage hike “could be very problematic for segments of a struggling small-business community,” says the National Small Business Association in a statement.

David French, senior vice president for government relations at the National Retail Federation, said in a statement: “A minimum wage hike right now would be one more factor driving up costs for employers and creating headwinds for job creation, especially among the small businesses that create most of our nation’s new jobs.”

The Employment Policies Institute (EPI) has multiple studies showing how minimum wage hikes, “including the one called for by the president, lead to job loss, not job creation, as well as fail to reduce poverty or stimulate the economy,” says EPI spokesman Stephen Ford. …

Research published in the Southern Economic Journal from economists at Cornell and American Universities have estimated that a minimum wage hike proposed by the President “would eliminate at least 467,000 jobs,” notes EPI’s Ford. “The study also found that the higher minimum wage would not reduce poverty, as a majority of beneficiaries live in households with incomes about the poverty level.”

Obamanomics: Ruining the economy, one mistaken big-government attempt to fix it at a time.

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Comments

I have assumed for a while that Barack Obama was routinely lying and just didn’t really give a damn. That he had an agenda and that our ends justified his means (party time at the White House).

Is it possible that he, somehow, actually believes this stuff?

Is he both delusional and pathological? And the head of the free world?

Does this give anyone else chills? And not the down-the-leg kind.

IndieDogg on February 13, 2013 at 1:09 PM

He was well indoctrinated by Columbia and Harvard in the 1980s. Hung out for years with folks who thought Reagan was the Devil. Yeah, he really believes this stuff works. Old-time liberals will never, ever give up their belief in government being smarter than markets.

And he doesn’t care about teenagers or blacks losing jobs or not getting them because of a minimum wage increase. He cares about those millions of about-to-be-legal immigrants who are making minimum wage and came from countries where there isn’t a minimum wage. They do not understand economics and they will not look past their own paycheck to see which President and which party made that paycheck bigger.

As a former mid-level Managment worker in retail (big box & high end) thanks for the update.

Execept the years I was out of work, in a industry that had a history of “easy hire” for those that want it, is really struggling under this Admintsraion.

Currently I am underemployed, driving 2 hours a day to a job that barely keeps me above water…and I’m not the only one.

You think the jobs rate is bad right now? What happens when another major retailer like JC Penny, Sears/K-Mart or Best Buy eats it? You think it MIGHT cause a hiccup in the stock market and the Budgets of the States those Corporations call home?

BlaxPac on February 13, 2013 at 2:11 PM

Its not a happy unicorn under this admin, nor was it 1999-2002.

Personally – I will never work for a large corp again (former AIG guy through a buyout) – we see how well that worked.

I have changed industries 4 or 5 times in the past 20 years – due to supply and demand of those industries. I refuse to lose and refuse to ever struggle for I found something I was good at – selling. Products, services – you name it, I can sell it. Some years good, some great – but that skill will never leave me.

In the past 6 months I turned down 2 positions, and currently am negotiating a commission only on top of my job. I didnt seek it, but earned it after a 20 minute conversation at a cocktail event.

Good luck to you – sorry if my comments were biting – but that 2 hour commute beats nothing. I did it and know all about it.

Ipod nano was a door prize at a college fair where I happened to be the only HS sophomore.

MelonCollie on February 13, 2013 at 1:54 PM

So you’re just a HS kid? No wonder you don’t understand any of what’s happening. And you’re definitely doing something wrong in your jobs and/or job searches. Your posts so far make you sound like a pathetic whiner.

My 20 year old son has had several jobs since HS – and has ALWAYS gotten whatever job he applied for. He started in an ice cream shop, got hired as a server for a pizza restaurant (then quit ice cream), got a 2nd job as a waiter at a small new restaurant, moved up to shift management in the pizza place and quit the waiter job, got demoted back to server because a new manager said he was too young to be in management, got hired by Costco to work in the food court and quit the pizza place. That’s all over the last 3 years. So for a kid less than 2 years out of HS (no college), within 1 year at Costco he’s gotten employee of the month, now up for shift supervisor, and is making over $11 an hour – $16 an hour on Sundays and for overtime hours – just making pizzas.

You need to take a seriously hard look in the mirror and figure out what YOU are doing wrong.

So you’re just a HS kid? No wonder you don’t understand any of what’s happening. And you’re definitely doing something wrong in your jobs and/or job searches. Your posts so far make you sound like a pathetic whiner.

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2013 at 2:20 PM

Do I have to spell it out for you with a neon sign, grandpa? I won that several years ago. I finally graduated with my associates after a painful venture into culinary arts, which was such a dream-shattering failure I don’t even wanna talk about.

Try not being able to trust free-market businesspeople more than a DC politician. That freaking HURTS. I used to have some faith in the free market for pete’s sake.

MelonCollie on February 13, 2013 at 1:52 PM

Wow. You know what – come to think of it, I never had a single hurdle I had to overcome in my 20 year journey to the ranks of middle management. Oh – wait. Yeah. I had hundreds of them. Like Tom Daschle Concerned said earlier. Put on a cup and nut-up. Life sucks sometimes.

12 years ago I was making less than Obama’s proposed minimum wage. Eating Ramen noodles and splurging for Keystone on a Friday night. I didn’t take the girlfriend to TGI Fridays because I couldn’t afford a girlfriend. I had lots of friends though. Broke people are good at entertaining each other if they can acknowledge that they’re broke as $#it and can’t afford to go to the movies or go shopping. For a spell there – I think I caught Breakfast Club every single time it came on TBS. It’s still funny. And it’s cheaper than a trip to the movie theatres to pay the exorbitant salaries of the Trots in Hollywood.

I got shot down more times than I can count. I remember a time that I traveled cross-country 3 times for interviews with the same company for the same position. Scraped together the money for the trip every time. Pretty much broke me. Didn’t get the job. I relocated 5 times just to move up the ladder with my previous employer. That’s expensive. I racked up enormous amounts of debt. I missed bills, had power turned off. Had cell fones shut off at the worst possible times (like right after I sent out resumes with that number on it as my contact.) Couldn’t afford to get it turned back on. Surely missed at least one call.

Waited for my one shot (with my current employer), and burst through the door when it was left cracked open for me. Have busted my @$$ and worked my way up in short order. Making a healthy wage now and supporting a wife and 2 kids – with another one on the way. And got the debt paid down so my only obligations are the car and house and a manageable credit card bill.

I promise you I didn’t spend ten years on the computer bitching about how unfair my lot in life was. Life is tough. Growing up sucks. And you never get what you want until much further down the road. Back then, if I was on the computer – it was to look for opportunities. The rest of my time was spent doing odd jobs, refereeing youth basketball for a few extra bucks, and anything I could to keep the bills paid.

The problem is that you think it’s someone else’s fault that you can’t take your lady anywhere but TGI Friday’s tonight. And you see taking her to TGI Fridays as a bad thing. Be thankful you can splurge for that, and if she’s worth a damn, where you take her doesn’t matter. And if you are really busting your ass to make it happen – she’ll stick around for the payoff ten years from now.

One thing I noticed as an out of shape average looking guy. The handsome guys are fun for the ladies to look at – but the guys that have a job and are responsible are the ones they marry. Good looks rarely pay the bills.

My son has had similar experiences with part-time jobs as a college student. He stands out at these jobs because he is personable, does whatever he is asked, is always on time and volunteers for shifts that others don’t want.

But I fear for him now, because he simply isn’t worth $9 an hour. Businesses that normally hire kids for the summer in my town are already cutting back on hiring and handing those jobs to older worklers who need the jobs more. My daughter turns 16 in May and has been excited abnout finally being able to get a job this summer to pay for stuff I won’t buy for her. But at $9 an hour she probably won’t find one.

You seem to misunderstand the basic principles of the free market and those who actively compete in it. A prospective employer will hire you only if you are seen as a way to improve the economic efficiency of the operation. That could mean greater production, better production or lower costs. PERIOD. A company owner invests resources to make money. The employee has only one real purpose when hired: to make their employer more profitable. PERIOD. If they don’t see that potential in you, they won’t hire you.

If you want to be considered for a job based on race, color, religion, and/or sexual preference where performance is gauged not by merit, ability or results, but by attendence, then apply for any government position. (It will help in the interview to talk up government unions and gay marriage rights.)

Smug, hateful attitudes of the old folks aside, are you lot going to actually do anything to help us yunguns get jobs? Are you just going to sit and complain about Obama while he gets everything he wants? CAN you even do anything?

Do I have to spell it out for you with a neon sign, grandpa? I won that several years ago. I finally graduated with my associates after a painful venture into culinary arts, which was such a dream-shattering failure I don’t even wanna talk about.

MelonCollie on February 13, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Well kid – you didn’t spell it out. Maybe communication is a big part of your problem – which makes it that much more clear that perhaps sales is not a good place for you either. So you spent 2 or more years on a degree you’re not even using? Not a good move. So have a culinary degree – why not get a job in a restaraunt in whatever position you can get.

My older son tried engineering in college, but at least he figured out in the first year that wasn’t for him, so he’ll graduate in May with a Business degree. My younger HS grad son works with a girl with a dietitian degree – making pizzas at the same pay rate – but he doesn’t have school loans to pay for.

Good luck to you – sorry if my comments were biting – but that 2 hour commute beats nothing. I did it and know all about it.

Odie1941 on February 13, 2013 at 2:20 PM

On the contrary, I thought nothing of it, just offered it as an example.

To be fair, even when I was still at managment level, my job required me to travel as much as possible (site visits), so it isn’t the commute that bothers me per se, because I was reasonably compensated for it. However in this job it is not the case.

In my current situation, its the same commute, but with *less* compensation. OTOH, I don’t pettiton my job for more money, I suck it up and do what I can. Which is the case for alot of people out there.

But I don’t claim it’s easy, but I do claim that before this Administration came into rule, it *was* easier for an average worker to advance or parallel into a similar field if he so chooses…because the company was projected to make the money back on that worker and they would make the “investment” in that position.

While this sounds good in principle to class warfare shills, it simply doesn’t work in reality. It never has. A better solution would be for government to get the hell out of the way of prosperity and allow businesses with BETTER opportunities to thrive, hire, and pay employees accordingly. This is a long read, but it’s an empirical look at the effects of raising minimum wage throughout history. It simply has an opposite effect on jobs:

Old-time liberals will never, ever give up their belief in government being smarter than markets.

rockmom on February 13, 2013 at 2:19 PM

That’s because they’re quite literally religious zealots. They have deep faith in Big Government as the salvation of the people. Their religion is statism. It’s as simple as that. The “unintended consequences” of their good intentions are met with a yawn, at best. Their faith is unyielding, reality be damned.

These people never change. Obama and Co. are right out of the 1940′s. They’re neo-luddite, anti-science, religious-zealot throwbacks.

Smug, hateful attitudes of the old folks aside, are you lot going to actually do anything to help us yunguns get jobs? Are you just going to sit and complain about Obama while he gets everything he wants? CAN you even do anything?

MelonCollie on February 13, 2013 at 2:26 PM

I think you just showed us more clearly why you can’t get a job – or get promoted. You’re really just a whiny liberal at heart if you expect someone else to GIVE you a job.

I’ve been in the defense business since 1987 (when I got out of the Air Force). I’ve worked for about 10 different companies in that time in a bunch of different positions (wherever they wanted me and I could contribute – engineering, software, requirements analysis, business development, project management). I got laid off twice in 2008 – and only collected 1 week of unemployment over the 2 months I was out of work. And I NEVER expected someone else to GIVE me a job – I went and got one even though it paid $25K a year less than I had been making.

When you figure out that YOU have to go out and EARN a job, and EARN your pay raises, and EARN your promotions, the whole job market starts looking a lot more reasonable and realistic. Life’s tough – and it’s very competitive – deal with it. As the military people say – “engage, adapt, overcome”.

Do I have to spell it out for you with a neon sign, grandpa? I won that several years ago. I finally graduated with my associates after a painful venture into culinary arts, which was such a dream-shattering failure I don’t even wanna talk about.

MelonCollie on February 13, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Did you ever consider the way you treat people might be the reason you’re a failure?

One thing that is lost on a lot of people is the fact that of decreasing employment in 2000 – 2002 (the result of both the Dot Com Bust and the 9/11/2001 attacks) and the 2003 Bush Tax Cuts turned that around so that employment increased in 2004, 2005, and 2006.

And then the Dems took control of both houses of Congress in 2007 and raised the minimum wage three times. The recovery in promptly employment ended in 2007, and was in a nose dive by the time the third minimum wage hike hit. Yes, the sub-prime crisis hit in 2008, but the minimum wage hikes had already shown their negative impact on employment, and only made the 2008-2009 recession worse.

Take a look at the Employment-Population Ratio and make your own mental notes of the timing of the Dot Com Bust, the 9/11/2001 attackes, the 2003 Bush Tax Cuts, the January 2007 shift in the balance of power from Republicans to Democrats, and the correlation of the minimum wage hikes in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

If Dems succeed in raising minimum wage again, it will NOT result in people making more money… it will result in more people becoming unemployed.

You earn promotions. You earn paychecks. But if nobody will look at you and say, “Okay, I’ll give you this position”, you’re SOL even if you don’t have so much as a parking ticket to your name.

MelonCollie on February 13, 2013 at 2:57 PM

If you can’t sell yourself well enough to get an employer to hire you – you don’t belong in sales. Getting a job IS a sales job – you earn the job with your convincing sales pitch about what you can do for the employer.

I have a bunch, from electrical wiring to basic construction to computer repair. I am not wanted for anything by anyone, no matter how nicely I dress, smile, say “yes sir” and act like I have a chance.

Those jobs all pay very well, and they’ll hire almost anyone willing to work.

Vera on February 13, 2013 at 3:00 PM

*puts head in hands*

Meaning no insult to you Very…but do you have any idea how many times I’ve been told that by everyone from ‘bus friends’ to my mother to online pals? And how many times it’s been unknowingly untrue or an outright exaggeration?

One thing that is lost on a lot of people is the fact of decreasing employment in 2000 – 2002 (the result of both the Dot Com Bust and the 9/11/2001 attacks) and how the 2003 Bush Tax Cuts turned that around so that employment increased in 2004, 2005, and 2006.

And then the Dems took control of both houses of Congress in 2007 and raised the minimum wage three times. The recovery in employment promptly ended in 2007, and was in a nose dive by the time the third minimum wage hike hit. Yes, the sub-prime crisis hit in 2008, but the minimum wage hikes had already shown their negative impact on employment, and only made the 2008-2009 recession worse.

Take a look at the Employment-Population Ratio and make your own mental notes of the timing of the Dot Com Bust, the 9/11/2001 attackes, the 2003 Bush Tax Cuts, the January 2007 shift in the balance of power from Republicans to Democrats, and the correlation of the minimum wage hikes in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

If Dems succeed in raising minimum wage again, it will NOT result in people making more money… it will result in more people becoming unemployed.

You are not a prospective employer, you do not know me, I do not know you. I highly doubt any of us act IRL too much like we do on an online political forum.

MelonCollie on February 13, 2013 at 2:59 PM

Well I have been an employer. I have been the hiring manager in several different companies, and hired dozens of people into jobs ranging from admin clerk to PhD level engineer/researcher.
And if you approach your job search and interviews the way you’re talking on this thread – with the same kind of attitude, I sure as hell wouldn’t hire you.

Ok – granted I’ve “verbally” smacked you in the face a bit (so have a few others). Now learn something from it.
Here’s some straight up advice – look for an entry level position somewhere – anywhere – everywhere. Write a resume that talks up any skills you have that are applicable to the job – for EACH job – - that clearly shows what you can do for them. If you get an interview, SELL them on what you can do for them. And if you get the job, no matter how low the pay is, work your butt off to EARN raises and promotions.

I have a bunch, from electrical wiring to basic construction to computer repair. I am not wanted for anything by anyone, no matter how nicely I dress, smile, say “yes sir” and act like I have a chance.

*puts head in hands*

Meaning no insult to you Very…but do you have any idea how many times I’ve been told that by everyone from ‘bus friends’ to my mother to online pals? And how many times it’s been unknowingly untrue or an outright exaggeration?

Then you must be hiding something – or there’s something wrong with you that you aren’t admitting to yourself or us.
Maybe it’s time for you to consider joining the military – which will give you job skills that companies want, both technical and non-technical – like showing up for work on time (and NOT drunk, stoned or hungover), wearing the clothes/uniform you’re supposed to wear, working in a team, etc. I know hundreds of companies that are eager to hire ANYONE who has been in the military for just those reasons.

Ok – granted I’ve “verbally” smacked you in the face a bit (so have a few others). Now learn something from it.

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2013 at 3:14 PM

You and your pals have SPIT in my face, and I’ve learned that you care about as little as liberals.

Those facts aside…would you hire someone who quietly came into an interview, well-dressed, trying with all his might and main not to break down and outright BEG to be hired, instead quietly saying “yes sir” or “no ma’am” to everything he was asked?

That’s me. Trying to come in and quietly ask as politely as I can to be hired, once again, after not being wanted by anyone anywhere for anything. I simply cannot brag or exaggerate my accomplishments like I keep getting told to do by ‘career counselors’ without sounding ridiculous. Believe me, I’ve tried, it didn’t end well.

Then you must be hiding something – or there’s something wrong with you that you aren’t admitting to yourself or us.

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2013 at 3:20 PM

At this point I really am wondering if there isn’t a convicted felon (or someone similarly horrible) with the same name as me who keeps turning up in reference checks.

Maybe it’s time for you to consider joining the military – which will give you job skills that companies want, both technical and non-technical – like showing up for work on time (and NOT drunk, stoned or hungover), wearing the clothes/uniform you’re supposed to wear, working in a team, etc.

Would be a good idea if I hadn’t been told by everyone from parents to relatives to counselors that I would not handle it well at all. Frankly, I wouldn’t trust myself not to walk out of collateral-damage range and crack two grenades together after getting chewed out for screwing something ELSE up.

$10 for a Big Mac. Maybe in 2 or 3 years. But aren’t today’s price increases bad enough?

Paul-Cincy on February 13, 2013 at 1:00 PM

They are, I can’t believe how much it now costs just to feed me, a single person. I can’t imagine how hard it is for an average family to feed and clothe themselves.

And don’t get me started on gas prices.

JPeterman on February 13, 2013 at 1:06 PM

We are a family of 4, and it IS getting harder to keep within a reasonable and affordable budget for groceries. It was not that many years ago that I could easily feed us on $75/wk. And that was some extras, like steak or shrimp thrown in every now and then. Now, it’s about $150/wk., and forget the extras and goodies. It’s scary.

Try this. Walk into a nonskilled manual.labor job listing and say “I’m here because I want to work hard and do my job well. Eventually, I’d like to learn a skill to move up into a skilled position. I’ve heard a lot of good things about your company, and I believe I can make a positive contribution due to my X skill/personality trait ect.

You and your pals have SPIT in my face, and I’ve learned that you care about as little as liberals.

Life is tough, and not always fair, and sometimes the truth hurts.
You need to distinguish the difference between really not caring versus saying what needs to be said to actually help (tough love style).

Those facts aside…would you hire someone who quietly came into an interview, well-dressed, trying with all his might and main not to break down and outright BEG to be hired, instead quietly saying “yes sir” or “no ma’am” to everything he was asked?

That’s me. Trying to come in and quietly ask as politely as I can to be hired, once again, after not being wanted by anyone anywhere for anything. I simply cannot brag or exaggerate my accomplishments like I keep getting told to do by ‘career counselors’ without sounding ridiculous. Believe me, I’ve tried, it didn’t end well.

MelonCollie on February 13, 2013 at 3:23 PM

Probably not. If you come off as overly meek and quiet and scared – which is what I see in what you described – no I probably wouldn’t hire you – especially not for any kind of sales job. You need to be able to present yourself as confident and outgoing to some degree.

Would be a good idea if I hadn’t been told by everyone from parents to relatives to counselors that I would not handle it well at all. Frankly, I wouldn’t trust myself not to walk out of collateral-damage range and crack two grenades together after getting chewed out for screwing something ELSE up.

MelonCollie on February 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM

As someone else said earlier – you need to man up.
It sounds to me like you NEED something like military training. Frankly I would guess Army and Marines might be too much for you. You might be able to handle Air Force training.
When I was in HS and applied for the Air Force and Navy Academies, my dad’s response was “you’ll never survive a place like that”. I still don’t know if he believed what he said, or if he said it challenge me, but I got into Air Force, and I did survive – at least partly to prove my Dad wrong.

I really don’t understand why all these people are being vicious to MelonCollie. What these people don’t understand is that the world has changed since they worked up the ladder in the 70s-80s. Learning a new skill doesn’t always help either. And before you all berate me, I am someone who is not afraid to work. I have taken odd jobs and hustled my way to other jobs. I absolutely have no issue working certain jobs if it puts income in my pocket. I have worked for two degrees and working on a third.

When I realized that my degrees were basically useless, I did what many of you guys prescribed and am back in school for nursing. We were told of a nursing shortage and that nurses were in high demand. But because of the bad economy and now Obamacare, new nurses cannot find jobs. And I am sorry, I am not meant to be a welder nor will I pay additional money to go to welding school or oil rigging training if I can’t afford it. There are some people that are trying to do the right thing, it just is difficult out there. Try having some compassion. Something that is sorely lacking around here.

Good sales, most multi-million dollar sales, are predicated on some sales person somewhere selling themselves long before they even mention the product.

Employers are not at all truly intereSted in what they can do for you…but they are keenly interested in what a prospective employee can do for them, and what they can add to that margin of profit they need to see at the end of the day…and what makes them better, more appealing, than any other employee candidate out in the waiting room on any given day.

Meloncollie…I tried sales before my several careers, and after…and I am just not cut out for that sort of thing. Two of my sons are born to it. Love it. Relish it. My oldest sibling likewise…has made a fortune doing so in a very tough market, too. Lives it, daily. Every person encountered is a potential customer, if not today than perhaps next week, or later. But, selling yourself, offering your best qualities in your appearance, attitude and demeanor…and likeability…it is all part of the successful sales shtick.

Melon – I am sorry for your plight. I realize in some places it can be tougher than others and if you are married to a particular region you may need to rethink that.

Your discussion on minimum wage is incorrect. This was pushed by labor unions to raise the point at which they would jump off for wages as well minimize the wage differences of non-union shops. Just like Bacon-Davis which also included the side benefit of expressing the old trade unions’ contempt for the black underclass.

There are jobs out there today – though they may be heavy, dirty, bad hours, or skilled/technical. It means you need to show up on time, be drug free, and not claim sickleave all the time. I am not suggesting you are having a problem with any of these issues – merely that I have been surprised by the numbers who do.

As to the heartless capitalists – and more importantly the small business owner – they will cut if their labor costs increase by 15-20% along with Obamacare requirements when they decide based upon the number of hours they are putting in they would like to at least make the old minimum wage. That the current idiots in DC don’t realize that is not the capitalists problem. It is the dolts who keep putting them in office.

I really don’t understand why all these people are being vicious to MelonCollie. What these people don’t understand is that the world has changed since they worked up the ladder in the 70s-80s. nyclakerfan on February 13, 2013 at 3:53 PM

I got news for ya – even those of us who started in the 70s and 80s are STILL in the workforce – working our way up and down the ladder – and we know exactly what how the world has changed because we’ve lived it every step of the way. I’ve gone both directions (up and down the ladder) multiple times based on job availability, company and government budgets, contract changes, and sometimes just the need to get away from a bad job or bad management. I’ve been a manager in charge of 35 people on an Air Force contract, and right now I’m a test engineer in a non-supervisory position (i.e. worker bee).

Meloncollie…I tried sales before my several careers, and after…and I am just not cut out for that sort of thing. Two of my sons are born to it. Love it. Relish it. My oldest sibling likewise…has made a fortune doing so in a very tough market, too. Lives it, daily. Every person encountered is a potential customer, if not today than perhaps next week, or later. But, selling yourself, offering your best qualities in your appearance, attitude and demeanor…and likeability…it is all part of the successful sales shtick.

In a tough economic period…even more so.

coldwarrior on February 13, 2013 at 3:59 PM

Meloncollie – what he said.
I also have been in business development (government defense contracting type). I’ve been good at writing proposals, but I also was not quite cut out for the full blown “sales and marketing” kind of work – just not my “single best destiny” (as stated in Star Trek). I’m much more comfortable, and better, in a hands-on engineering type job. You have to find out what you’re actually good at and focus there even if it doesn’t lead to being CEO – which not everyone is suited for.
Dirty Harry – “A man’s got to know his limitations.”

And now for something completely different:
Since when has the lowest paid workers been the Middle Class”?

OldEnglish on February 13, 2013 at 4:14 PM

Good question. I always thought “minimum wage” was designed for the bottom entry level jobs and people – no job skills yet so you earn the absolute minimum the company can afford to pay you just so you can get a job and start learning some skills.
The best thing we could do for EVERYONE, in my view, is totally eliminate the minimum wage.

I really don’t understand why all these people are being vicious to MelonCollie. What these people don’t understand is that the world has changed since they worked up the ladder in the 70s-80s.

nyclakerfan on February 13, 2013 at 3:53 PM

I got news for ya – even those of us who started in the 70s and 80s are STILL in the workforce – working our way up and down the ladder – and we know exactly what how the world has changed because we’ve lived it every step of the way. I’ve gone both directions (up and down the ladder) multiple times based on job availability, company and government budgets, contract changes, and sometimes just the need to get away from a bad job or bad management. I’ve been a manager in charge of 35 people on an Air Force contract, and right now I’m a test engineer in a non-supervisory position (i.e. worker bee).

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2013 at 4:04 PM

Yeah – I thought that too. I started my trek in the late 90′s, and the only thing that has stayed the same is that your value to an employer is all that matters. Sure – they want to treat you well – but at the end of the day – you are providing them with a service, and if you want to be paid for it, they have to perceive value in what you’re selling.

Yeah – I thought that too. I started my trek in the late 90′s, and the only thing that has stayed the same is that your value to an employer is all that matters. Sure – they want to treat you well – but at the end of the day – you are providing them with a service, and if you want to be paid for it, they have to perceive value in what you’re selling.

CycloneCDB on February 13, 2013 at 4:47 PM

Yup – and I see that with my boys as well. My 20 year old son who works in the Costco food court has even pointed out to his manager “the customers had better REALLY like this pizza I’m making – since you’ve got me on overtime, so you’re paying me $16 an hour to make it.” That direct attitude, and a solid work ethic, is why he’s already under consideration for a bottom level management position a little over a year into the job.
And, yes I’m darn proud of him even if he doesn’t ever go to college.

Yup – and I see that with my boys as well. My 20 year old son who works in the Costco food court has even pointed out to his manager “the customers had better REALLY like this pizza I’m making – since you’ve got me on overtime, so you’re paying me $16 an hour to make it.” That direct attitude, and a solid work ethic, is why he’s already under consideration for a bottom level management position a little over a year into the job.
And, yes I’m darn proud of him even if he doesn’t ever go to college.

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2013 at 4:57 PM

Precisely. And not to hammer away on MellonCollie here – but that’s why begging for a job doesn’t matter. Best interview advice I ever got was that it’s a simple business transaction. A buyer and a seller on both sides of the table. You’re not looking for a prom date. It’s not a marriage. It’s a business transaction. Now tell me why I want to do business with you.

I’m glad you’ll show up on time and work hard – but I wouldn’t expect you to tell me anything different than that in an interview.

I’m glad you show me respect and call me “sir”…but that’s kind of just meeting a minimum requirement. The guy that is flippant and uber-casual isn’t getting a call back either, I promise.

As a hiring manager, I don’t care if you have a job. I care if I have a job. If I hire you, I have not accomplished anything. I’ve taken a risk with the hope it will improve my operation.

I don’t get a bonus for hiring you. My boss would prefer I make due with the resources I have and not hire you. So – all I get by hiring you is a new liability, and increased scrutiny from my boss. If I hire you, and you suck, I may find my own @$$ out on the street. So tell me why it is I should do it?

This is the part that Obama and all of the typical lefties miss all the time. They think you have a moral obligation to hire people. As though it were a civic duty.

This is the part that Obama and all of the typical lefties miss all the time. They think you have a moral obligation to hire people. As though it were a civic duty.

CycloneCDB on February 13, 2013 at 5:08 PM

Ya – that part there is one of the main problems we have and why the Dems will never be able to fix the economy. They see the hiring process as that obligation you mentioned – becasue they see themselves as all-knowing benevolent overlords. They just don’t understand that if the government makes it too risky or too expensive for me to hire someone, I just won’t hire anyone – at least not until the business balance shifts to the point where I HAVE to hire someone or I lose money because I can’t get the work done otherwise.

And I also don’t give someone a pay raise just because someone else says I should. The employee gets a raise when they’ve proven they are worth the money AND perhaps if I don’t give them the raise they leave for a better paying job.

The employee gets a raise when they’ve proven they are worth the money AND perhaps if I don’t give them the raise they leave for a better paying job.

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2013 at 5:23 PM

Bingo. It’s about retention. If you’ve proven that your skills are worth more than I am paying you – I better pay you more, before someone else does. It’s not a reward. It is – once again – a business transaction.

Just the same way that I will sell my product to the highest bidder…you will take your services to the highest bidder. I’ll give a raise to keep you from opening the bidding.

It’s great your kid is doing well. Costco pizza is garbage, as many customers and employees agree. They just don’t care enough to not shovel it in their mouths, but there’s no disputing taste and it’s their bodies. And whoever came up with that hideous carne asada item should’ve been fired. Btw, if it is true that they train their employees to say things snidely like “Is that it?” to customers who only buy one or two items, they should knock it off already.

There is more money to pay Middle Class workers, if you don’t have to pay those on the bottom more. We ought to have a call to lay off the worst minimum wage worker, and promote someone who seems promising who might do a little bit more for the company. Give the minimum wage workers a ladder to aspire to.

It’s great your kid is doing well. Costco pizza is garbage, as many customers and employees agree. They just don’t care enough to not shovel it in their mouths, but there’s no disputing taste and it’s their bodies. And whoever came up with that hideous carne asada item should’ve been fired. Btw, if it is true that they train their employees to say things snidely like “Is that it?” to customers who only buy one or two items, they should knock it off already.

Christien on February 13, 2013 at 5:33 PM

Ya – my son won’t eat the pizza there either and he makes them. He says what you said – they’re cheap and don’t have much taste.
I don’t think Costco tells employees to make snide remarks – at least not at his store. Sounds like you’ve got some lousy workers at your store. My son says they are told to bend over backwards for the “members” – and from what he says, they make zero profit on the food court – it’s nothing more than a service for the customers to keep them in the store longer.

Costco isn’t a bad place. I have a free membership there because of my son, and I pay for a Sam’s membership – which I’ve had for almost 20 years – since my mom worked there. Pretty much a toss up between the 2 in my view, but I shop more at Sam’s just because its closer to home. I like Costco’s liquor store though – really good prices – one brand of wine I like is $3 a bottle cheaper there than at any liquor store in the area ($8 vs $11). (in Colorado wine and liquor can only be bought at actual liquor stores – nothing but 3.2% beer in grocery and convenience stores)

The federal gubmint could save a bundle if they did that. I see it every day in the defense industry. Way too many useless bureaucrats doing unnecessary make work just to justify their existence. I spend way too much of my time every week just providing the same status updates in differenet formats and meetings to a bunch of different gubmint managers who all want the same info, but to each in their own way.

If they eliminated half of all the civile service employees in DoD and eliminated the overlapping and unnecessary make-work they do, nobody would see any difference in our military capabilities. In fact it would probably get better, and then we’d be able to afford the stuff we really need – or eliminate the deficit.

Yeah, I shop there mostly to show support for a buddy who works there, too. Costco ain’t all that, despite their ‘tude and “Buy Democrat” approval rating. Sam’s is ok, though not as many of The Beautiful People shop there, IMO.

Research published in the Southern Economic Journal from economists at Cornell and American Universities have estimated that a minimum wage hike proposed by the President “would eliminate at least 467,000 jobs,”…

Think like a proggie! That should read: ‘would create at least 467,000 hardcore democratic voters’.

You are not a prospective employer, you do not know me, I do not know you. I highly doubt any of us act IRL too much like we do on an online political forum.

MelonCollie on February 13, 2013 at 2:59 PM

Depends. No, I do not call Obama a rat-eared wonder IRL. But it is clear you have a sense of entitlement typical of younger generations. You resent the hell out of the fact that you are manning a watch kiosk at a mall when you got a couple years of college. Yet you have no plan on how to get a full BA or BS and start a career. Apparently somebody needs to hand that to you.

I’m not sure what you are talking about — Costco makes good pizza, on par with Pizza Guys, Papa Johns, or Mountain Mike’s. Granted, you have to like cheese, peperoni, or combo pizza, but, assuming you do, its a great value.

Smug, hateful attitudes of the old folks aside, are you lot going to actually do anything to help us yunguns get jobs? Are you just going to sit and complain about Obama while he gets everything he wants? CAN you even do anything?

As an “oldun” who hires young people pretty much once per month for the last 1.5 years even in this “down” economy, then, yes, I can help you get a job. Go read my first post. I can assure you I have a lot of applicants, and looking back over the last year and half… NONE of my employees have quit. I doubt you’d even get a call back with your attitude.

You see, when I tell my employees “You’re making your own problems,” they seem to listen and try to improve by working harder, asking questions, paying attention, being on time, and basically trying to do the right thing for the right reasons.

When you’re told “You’re making your own problems,” you ask me and others to get you a job.

Did you miss the quote where he said what are WE going to do to help HIM get a job? Let me get rid of all the other words, to make it easier for you:

“are you lot going to actually do anything to help us yunguns get jobs?”

You’re another “blame the other guy first” complainer who is destined to the welfare line. If the two of you spent half as much time and effort working as you do complaining, you’d already have another job. You’re Melon’s apologist, and just as like to be a whining loser.

Pardon me if someone has already expressed this, but…this dolt really is just looking for a cause to champion without real regard to any consequences.

Do you realize that we just raised the minimum wage in July of 2009, completing a stepped rise of almost 40%? Some employers are only now recovering from that setback–at my business, some of us actually took a pay cut in order to share the revenues with the min. wage-earners. Our wages have never recovered since then.

IMO, he’s not looking for a cause to champion so much as trotting out the same old, tired progressive wishlist items in order to reassure Dems they can go back to sleep, now that he’s won a second term. Good point about the 2009 raise and thanks for bringing it up.