Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

Numerous surveys have shown us that the most widespread, persistent category of such beliefs is in supernatural beings—in gods, ghosts, and suchlike. A sufficient explanation for this phenomenon is critical for several reasons. It is necessary to counter the “So many believe, therefore there must be something in it” argument. It can guide us strategically in our quest to enable more people to hold beliefs that are evidence-based and are therefore more likely to correspond to the realities that the Enlightenment and the scientific process have revealed to us.
[www.csicop.org]

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

Rotor,
There is a fantastic mini series on Netflix called "The Last Kingdom". I'm a history buff so I loved it. It is about Christian England being overrun by the Pagans of Denmark soon after the Romans left.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

QuoteGumbo
Rotor,
There is a fantastic mini series on Netflix called "The Last Kingdom". I'm a history buff so I loved it. It is about Christian England being overrun by the Pagans of Denmark soon after the Romans left.

I bet the pagans were pissed after the Christians took all their holidays and christified them....

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

If that kind of history stuff fascinates you, I think you'll find this amazing as well.

I found it deeply fascinating and have watched it several times. The part I really enjoyed was the research into the origins of Christmas ceremonies and rituals (stockings, xmass trees, ornaments... all things that seem to have nothing to do with Christianity... this video explains why....)

QuoteThe Pharmacratic Inquisition 2007 is a video version of the book, "Astrotheology & Shamanism" by Jan Irvin & Andrew Rutajit. The painstakingly detailed and heavily footnoted research in the book comes to life in this video and is now available to you for FREE! For further research of the claims made in this video, please read AstroTheology & Shamanism - this book is available to order as a combo with the DVD.

Thousands of years ago, in the pre monarchic era, sacred plants and other entheogenic substances where politically correct and highly respected for their ability to bring forth the divine, Yahweh, God, The Great Spirit, etc., by the many cultures who used them. Often the entire tribe or community would partake in the entheogenic rites and rituals. These rites were often used in initiation into adulthood, for healing, to help guide the community in the decision process, and to bring the direct religious experience to anyone seeking it.

In the pre literate world, the knowledge of psychedelic sacraments, as well as fertility rites and astronomical knowledge surrounding the sun, stars, and zodiac, known as astrotheology, were anthropomorphized into a character or a deity; consequently, their stories and practices could easily be passed down for generations. Weather changes over millenniums caused environmental changes that altered the available foods and plant sacraments available in the local vicinity. If a tribe lost its shamanic El-der (El - God), all of the tribe's knowledge of their plant sacraments as well as astronomical knowledge would be lost. The Church's inquisitions extracted this sacred knowledge from the local Shamans who were then exterminated...It is time to recognize the fact that this Pharmacratic Inquisition is still intact and destroy it.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

QuoteGumbo
Rotor,
There is a fantastic mini series on Netflix called "The Last Kingdom". I'm a history buff so I loved it. It is about Christian England being overrun by the Pagans of Denmark soon after the Romans left.

I'll check it out. I watch the Vikings series on the History Channel. It has a lot of this too.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

The human propensity to believe the improbable keeps church doors open. It is also the reason that confidence tricksters live well. Perhaps prophets are merely con men who specialize in the spiritual. There are two ways to test out this idea. First, are mainstream religions founded by con men? Second, if one were to set up a fake religion, would it get exposed?

Mormonism is an intriguing case history because it has a very shady past but has come to be accepted as a mainstream religion. As a comparatively new world religion it is susceptible to historical documentation in ways that were impossible for, say, Christianity. We do not know whether Jesus ever existed as depicted in the gospels and historians like to expose problems in the New Testament account of his life. Joseph Smith actually existed and had a real criminal record.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

Billions of people attend millions of churches around the world to worship God.

Yet the God they worship is completely imaginary. Their belief represents a delusion.

It is easy to prove that God is imaginary. Start at the beginning with Proof #1, or try these five all-time favorites:
•Analyse prayer
•Imagine heaven
•Notice your church
•Understand delusion
•Think about science

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

Back in 2013, we reported on the case of veteran Puerto Rico police officer Alvin Marrero-Méndez, who was demoted for refusing to take part in police prayer sessions, and was demoted and humiliated for his refusal.

Well, it’s just been reported that Marrero-Méndez, an atheist, has won a a lawsuit against the Puerto Rico Police Department, which stripped him of his gun, and demoted him to being a messenger and car-washer.

Good glad they are in jail. I believe prayer is a very powerful addition to medical treatment but I've never understood watching someone die praying for a miracle. Especially a child that you are responsible for. It's criminal neglect. If your an adult go for it if that's what you choose.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

When you look at the history of what we know about the world, you see a noticeable pattern. Natural explanations of things have been replacing supernatural explanations of them. Like a steamroller. Why the Sun rises and sets. Where thunder and lightning come from. Why people get sick. Why people look like their parents. How the complexity of life came into being. I could go on and on.

All these things were once explained by religion. But as we understood the world better, and learned to observe it more carefully, the explanations based on religion were replaced by ones based on physical cause and effect. Consistently. Thoroughly. Like a steamroller. The number of times that a supernatural explanation of a phenomenon has been replaced by a natural explanation? Thousands upon thousands upon thousands.

Now. The number of times that a natural explanation of a phenomenon has been replaced by a supernatural one? The number of times humankind has said, "We used to think (X) was caused by physical cause and effect, but now we understand that it's caused by God,or spirits, or demons, or the soul"?

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

We had this conversation some time ago that you asked if I thought Atheists could be moral which I agreed that certainly they could be. Just as I've experienced Christians that I would not trust. So what do you think is at the root of our moral compass?

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

No, not really. I have thought about this quite a bit. I believe in the "natural" world, and the best way to understand the natural world is through science. I have never had a "supernatural" experience nor have I ever talked to anyone who has had a credible "supernatural" experience.

More and more things are explained by science. I have never had a void or a problem with which I felt that a supernatural imaginary friend could help.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

Rotor,
Your way of looking at things may not be mine but certainly they are respectable. I think people should be allowed to believe as they choose. Love who they choose. And vote for who they choose.
I was told Liberals believed the same way until the last election.
I already knew better. Now millions know better.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

I agree with you about people being able to believe as they wish and live as they wish. My only real problem with religion is not people believing it, It is when they force it on others.

I have a problem when I go to a government meeting and am forced to sit through a prayer as admission to the meeting. Why can't people pray at home or in church? If you feel a need to pray at a government meeting why can't it be done silently so as not to disrupt the meeting?

I also have a problem with people teaching children that something is true when they have no evidence to support it. A book is not evidence, it is a claim which should be supported by evidence. If a parent wants to teach their child mythology I guess that is their right, but teaching it in public schools is and should remain off limits.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

Their is some validity to your argument. I think a moment of silence is a fair compromise. If someone doesn't choose to pray, most including me could use a little self reflection.
I didn't push my beliefs on my Son, It wouldn't have worked on me. It would have just led to rebellion. My decision was to expose him to it and let him decide. As far as public schools go I believe the history of all people including their religion or lack of it should be taught. But not practiced.
If you want to send your kids to a church school that's your right as a parent. As I previously noted. It wouldn't have worked for my kid or me. Just a waste of money and someone's effort. I believe that the Bible does contain God's word and has some additions to benefit the people that transcribed it. When people get involved it always becomes self serving. No matter what they believe or don't believe. It's just our nature. Religion and many other things have been shoved down our throats for way too long. I can't agree with religion or political correctness being pushed on anyone. It's OK to provide information, but let people decide for themselves. Just like this thread. I read it and find much of it intresting.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

This needs to end! No one should be forced to sit through a prayer in order to conduct government business. If the judge needs to pray he should do so before he comes to court.

A Texas judge is being sued in federal court by the nation's leading secularist legal organization because of his courtroom tradition of having guest pastors and chaplains offer an invocation before each session.
[www.foxnews.com]

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

Church officials confirmed that the Diocese of Great Falls-Billings is unable to settle the lawsuits that have been so far been filed by 72 of the victims of pedophilia at the hands of Catholic priests.
[www.neonnettle.com]

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