lorenzo ran a blistering pace the whole race, and it was VERY clear that there were places that the m1 excelled over the rc213, and vice versa. jorge had an obvious advantage coming off the corners (as is always the case with the m1), and the lack of long straights at valencia certainly didn't play into mm's favor

and also given that mm had been VERY VERY publically criticized for "meddling with the championship", why would he risk taking out lorenzo and spoiling his chances? lolly was lightning the whole race, you can't just ride by the guy.

it seems that rossi fans are all too quick to give marquez more credit for his ability than he deserves. they all seem to fancy him some sort of alien who can win any race at will, this obviously isn't true. lorenzo rode a perfect race from qualifying to the final corner, he won fare and square and most certainly wasn't "given" the victory. he has done this countless times in his career and nobody has ever accused the losers of sandbagging, why should they now?

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It would be totally hypocritical and disingenuous to deny that MM didn't try or have the speed to pass Lorenzo at Valencia. And, if HE wasn't going to pass Jorge, he sure as Hell wasn't going to allow Dani to do it either. Right or wrong, I can understand why he did what he did and, in the same way Rossi is absolutely convinced that Marquez obstructed his chances of winning the title in various ways and junctures, I have no doubt Marquez feels exactly the same way. Perception being the greater part of reality, it's hard to object or argue with the final outcome.

Agreed. Regardless of whether his allegations are true or not, here, he now surrenders his dignity and comes off as a sore loser.

Like the Doctor did with Biaggi and Gibernau, MM appears to be fully and irrevocably inside Valentino's head. His post race statements against Marc, Honda and Jorge reflect poorly on him as a MotoGP Legend and sportsman. Very sad.

Agreed. Regardless of whether his allegations are true or not, here, he now surrenders his dignity and comes off as a sore loser.

Like the Dostor did with Biaggi and Gibernau, MM appears to be fully and irrevocably inside Valentino's head. His post race statements against Marc, Honda and Jorge reflect poorly on him as MotoGP Legend and sportsman. Very sad.

They're all sissies.

Jorge's Sepang Post-Race rant about race direction not penalizing Rossi his 3rd place points and essentially handing him the championship was the bitchiest move of the year. Then he had a conniption when the reporter asked him how he felt about not being penalized when he passed another rider under a yellow flag. What a straight up Wanker! Then he walked off the podium to get back at the crowd because they cheered Rossi and boo'ed him.

Rossi is at a level that all of us can only dream of achieving. Here he is at 36 years old and cut through 20 world class riders like it was a track day. He's been racing bikes since he was in the womb, and his level of perception and intuition is borderline superhuman. With all the beef he had with Biaggi and Gibernau, he knows BS when he sees it. So, if Rossi says they formed an alliance, then it's very likely they ganged up on him. None of us are in a legitimate position to disagree. We can neither prove nor disprove it. We don't even have enough data to form an opinion, but we will anyway because we're all friggin' retarded and that's what we do because in the back of our minds we think we know best. For a man who's GOAT legacy is already sealed, even acknowledged by Nakamoto of Honda and many others, he doesn't need to come up with cockamamie excuses! Add to that he has job security for the rest of his life. I would take his word over anyone else's in the paddock.

There are simply too many Spaniards on factory bikes. Moto GP needs more diversity so stuff like this can't happen. .....and for the love of God, how did Marquez land a Factory ride in his rookie season again! But I won't go there.

In Medieval Japan, Marquez would have to fall on his sword after the last two races and even going as far as to ride mellow behind Lorenzo but attacking his own teammate who clearly had the pace for the win.

Nakamoto wasn't pleased and if Marquez doesn't win the championship next year I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up getting the boot from Honda for this fiasco, while Pedrosa remains, and who also seems to be getting better with age. Kind of like fine wine.

SECTION8 FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Nakamoto wasn't pleased and if Marquez doesn't win the championship next year I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up getting the boot from Honda for this fiasco, while Pedrosa remains, and who also seems to be getting better with age. Kind of like fine wine.

Did you even read what you wrote? It's so funny that it has to be a troll post. Well played Nate, well played! But you have to wake up earlier than that to get me.

It would be totally hypocritical and disingenuous to deny that MM didn't try or have the speed to pass Lorenzo at Valencia.

Yep

Lorenzo, who ended the season with seven wins to Rossi's four and five points clear, suggested it was to be expected that his compatriots would rather see him win.

Words out of Lorenzo's mouth.....

"The fact that they knew what I was going for and that they are Spanish has helped me and in another race they may have tried everything to overtake," said the new champion.

"Dani did well because he could have tried a crazy overtake. We are Spanish and the title remains in Spain. If it had been in Italy and with two Italians behind Rossi then it would have been the same."

So, there you have it. It's become a national team sport. Lorenzo himself is saying that they did not pass him because they wanted a Spanish champion.

The hilarious part?

Marquez denies he didn't try to pass Jorge - despite Jorge admitting that they helped him by not trying to pass him!!! THAT is hilarious!!!!!

So.....where does that leave the non-conspiracy brigade of 3 people now?

So.....where does that leave the non-conspiracy brigade of 3 people now?

It's over Old Man. Your Lover choked it away because he cracked under the pressure AGAIN! He has NO ONE to blame but himself. He had a 28pt lead with 5 races to go and just didn't have what it takes. But of course he has to blame it on everyone but himself.

Lorenzo and Marquez trade Championships for the next 9 years and they both retire with 9. Just like Rossi!

Jorge's Sepang Post-Race rant about race direction not penalizing Rossi his 3rd place points and essentially handing him the championship was the bitchiest move of the year. Then he had a conniption when the reporter asked him how he felt about not being penalized when he passed another rider under a yellow flag. What a straight up Wanker! Then he walked off the podium to get back at the crowd because they cheered Rossi and boo'ed him.

Rossi is at a level that all of us can only dream of achieving. Here he is at 36 years old and cut through 20 world class riders like it was a track day. He's been racing bikes since he was in the womb, and his level of perception and intuition is borderline superhuman. With all the beef he had with Biaggi and Gibernau, he knows BS when he sees it. So, if Rossi says they formed an alliance, then it's very likely they ganged up on him. None of us are in a legitimate position to disagree. We can neither prove nor disprove it. We don't even have enough data to form an opinion, but we will anyway because we're all friggin' retarded and that's what we do because in the back of our minds we think we know best. For a man who's GOAT legacy is already sealed, even acknowledged by Nakamoto of Honda and many others, he doesn't need to come up with cockamamie excuses! Add to that he has job security for the rest of his life. I would take his word over anyone else's in the paddock.

There are simply too many Spaniards on factory bikes. Moto GP needs more diversity so stuff like this can't happen. .....and for the love of God, how did Marquez land a Factory ride in his rookie season again! But I won't go there.

In Medieval Japan, Marquez would have to fall on his sword after the last two races and even going as far as to ride mellow behind Lorenzo but attacking his own teammate who clearly had the pace for the win.

Nakamoto wasn't pleased and if Marquez doesn't win the championship next year I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up getting the boot from Honda for this fiasco, while Pedrosa remains, and who also seems to be getting better with age. Kind of like fine wine.

Lorenzo would have won with a 2nd place. MM could have ''let'' Pedrosa go on to win and stayed behind JLo ''blocking'' a very distant rossi. And again, if MM was helping JLo from PI why did MM win PI?

Still waiting for RD and Yamaha or rossi's own team manager to address the issue or file an official complaint for PI, Sepang and now Valencia? Notably rossi's appeal was filed by rossi's lawyers, not yamaha. rossi is the only one seeing this ''evidence''.

Again, Nakamoto is never happy when a rider loses. Your point about forming opinions without evidence applies here. I've yet to read anything from Nakamoto saying the fix was in or disappoint with MM's performance, yet some seem to be jumping right to that conclusion... Honda dropping MM, youngest ever double world champion, is a very silly idea.

I think you've nailed the point with your comment that rossi's claims, while unsupported and simply too incredible to believe, are believed because of his reputation. You cannot prove an untrue statement with any kind of evidence. Once doubt is put in play it festers. If this was Stoner many would be reacting totally differently. People will gladly believe a Spanish conspiracy rather than rossi simply lost it and lost the title.

FWIW this weekend was a losing proposition for MM. There was a huge hew and cry for the all riders to stay out of rossi's way so he could win the title. I find it highly amusing that MM is being accused of doing the same thing the rossi fanbase was asking for, albeit for JLo. Would everyone have had the same reaction if MM did it for rossi? Would MM now be a hero if he had done that for rossi and rossi had the title? Strange stuff in a competitive environment to consider. The only way MM would escape unscathed this weekend was to crash out, alone.

Mat Oxley retweeted this and I think it put it best re the conspiracy et al

Quote:

We need a new definition of "truth:" if you WISH it were true, even when you know it isn't, then it's true. QED.

Mat also tweeted that he talked to Cal C

Quote:

Then I spoke to Cal: "I know the Honda's weak points & strong points - MM had no acceleration grip out of turns to set up a pass."

2006 BMW HP2
2015 Triumph Rocket III Roadster

Sour grapes are a lesser man's fruit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Little ShopThe [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

MM foiled any chance Honda had at winning that race (and not one attempt on Lorenzo; imagine that)... I couldn't stand that little $hit in Moto2, and I can stand him less now...Jorge had an outstanding year, congratulations to him. Rossi is still the best motorcycle racer to ever throw a leg over a bike...

So if those allegations are true, is he supposed to keep his mouth shut? Give me a break.

As is much of the biased "drivel" emanating from your keyboard over the past weeks. You're entitled to your "opinion" but your ardent worship of all things Rossi clearly renders your viewpoints far less objective than you've deluded yourself into thinking they are with your recent proclamations of absolutes. I admire your passion but you often blindly confuse opinions with the facts.

To all you conspiracy theorists out there, An imaginary letter to Rossi from Marquez:

Dear Valentino:

Your tricks and mind games may have been successful in the past against weaker minded competitors and adversaries but this will never be the case with me. In the meantime, Good Luck next year and don't forget that payback is a bitch should you get any ideas for next season.

Bull$hit end to a great championship.... Unless you are a blind hater of Rossi, you can't actually say that MM did not directly influence the outcome of the championship in the last 2-3 races. If your argument is that he didn't technically break any rule, then I agree. No rules about blocking anyone or slowing them down, or interfering in a championship when you are out of it, so technically he didn't do anything wrong... but the way people view you is not that black and white. For Lorenzo and Marquez to be booed in SPAIN after Lorenzo just won a world championship tells you all about what people think about that.

I agree with Rossi that in reflection Lorenzo may not be very happy about this either... he probably had enough pace and confidence to have won this championship outright, but now it will always carry a stigma of not a clean win.

It is going to be a very interesting winter season. I am curious to see how these two carry on now that so much has been said in public. Only winner here is Pedrosa!

Bull$hit end to a great championship.... Unless you are a blind hater of Rossi, you can't actually say that MM did not directly influence the outcome of the championship in the last 2-3 races. If your argument is that he didn't technically break any rule, then I agree. No rules about blocking anyone or slowing them down, or interfering in a championship when you are out of it, so technically he didn't do anything wrong... but the way people view you is not that black and white. For Lorenzo and Marquez to be booed in SPAIN after Lorenzo just won a world championship tells you all about what people think about that.

I agree with Rossi that in reflection Lorenzo may not be very happy about this either... he probably had enough pace and confidence to have won this championship outright, but now it will always carry a stigma of not a clean win.

It is going to be a very interesting winter season. I am curious to see how these two carry on now that so much has been said in public. Only winner here is Pedrosa!

There was a rousing cheer when Lorenzo crossed the line so what race were you were watching?

Valencia has long been know as (one of) rossi's home tracks away from home. The commentators always remark on it and the VR46 crowd. Even in the yrs previous when JLo or MM won their respective titles there were as many if not more VR46 regalia in the stands as there was JLo or MM gear. The most ardent rossi fans would have been there so are we really surprised JLo and MM were booed? Does it substantiate any of the allegations... nope.

Lorenzo on reflection will look back at the abysmal start to the season he had, how it looked exactly how the previous season had started, and how he clawed back from a 28 pt deficit to win the title in the final rounds.

Let's remember how written off Lorenzo was at the beginning of the season

We looked left and then saw a forlorn figure, sitting in a chair. Tomo and Roberts were not alone in the motorhome; another person was there with them, but he was almost easy to miss, sitting deep in a chair, shoulders slumped, head down. His body language spoke defeat, exasperation and frustration. He never looked up, but stared at his feet, or his mobile phone, the whole time we were making our good-byes to Roberts...

As we spun, still talking to Roberts, we recognized the face of the young man who seemed to have been having a soul-searching conversation in the King's motorhome.

Jorge Lorenzo.

JLo has long been immune to the mind games. IMO JLo"s only regrets will be the crashes in the wet, the very obvious equalizer races where rossi proved superior. That's something to improve on.

rossi will also have regrets, moreso than JLo, in that this was his best chance at a 10th title while Lorenzo still has many yrs ahead of him. Hard to think of anyone with such a commanding lead going into the final rounds of a season losing so spectacularly and convincingly having less regret than the title winner. Can't think of a one. That will weigh heavily on rossi and his decisions in the future.

2006 BMW HP2
2015 Triumph Rocket III Roadster

Sour grapes are a lesser man's fruit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Little ShopThe [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Rossi's post Valencia rant to the media and his disrespectful antics toward Dorna Chief, Carmelo Ezpeleto, was another example of sour grapes and terribly poor sportsmanship. Rossi is further disgracing himself and his legacy. When HRC finally release the data that unequivocally demonstrate/prove that he did indeed kick Marquez' brake lever at Sepang, his reputation and legacy will be further and forever tarnished.

Marquez had every right to choose TO TRY or NOT TO TRY passing Lorenzo at Valencia. I suspect he would have if Pedrosa had not caught up at the end AND he believed he could make the pass safely without endangering Lorenzo in any way. In my opinion, it was less of a Spain thing than a friendship and respect thing. Marquez likes and respects Jorge. I'm guessing he doesn't feel quite the same way about Rossi after all the shit Rossi has pulled.

Don't forget that Rossi's rants incited ugly and threatening behavior that presented itself on the doorstep Marquez' and his family's home.
I wouldn't go out of my way to "help" such a person win a championship. Would you?

In the end, Rossi's failure to win the title was a summary of his own mistakes and shortcomings. Period. The faster and and better Yamaha rider won the title this year and deservedly so.

My only concerns at this point are the harmful consequences Marquez or his family may suffer at the hands of some hysterical Rossi fan(s) acting out a vendetta fueled by Rossi's shameless and bitter rants for which he would surely be morally, albeit not legally, accountable.

As is much of the biased "drivel" emanating from your keyboard over the past weeks. You're entitled to your "opinion" but your ardent worship of all things Rossi clearly renders your viewpoints far less objective than you've deluded yourself into thinking they are with your recent proclamations of absolutes. I admire your passion but you often blindly confuse opinions with the facts.

There has indeed been plenty of "drivel" associated with this thread, but I believe you are incorrect from which keyboard it is emanating...
You are one of the few here with such hatred of Rossi you regularly embarrass yourself and have the gall to call someone else "biased"
Several years ago, I would have argued with you forever, but I've grown up. Maybe one day you will too.
Now I realize that you and your ilk simply aren't worth it. You are hateful, small, little people who make posts to inflame to garner attention because something in your real life is out of balance.
I wish you peace and balance in life sir. Time will heal all...

There has indeed been plenty of "drivel" associated with this thread, but I believe you are incorrect from which keyboard it is emanating...
You are one of the few here with such hatred of Rossi you regularly embarrass yourself and have the gall to call someone else "biased"
Several years ago, I would have argued with you forever, but I've grown up. Maybe one day you will too.
Now I realize that you and your ilk simply aren't worth it. You are hateful, small, little people who make posts to inflame to garner attention because something in your real life is out of balance.
I wish you peace and balance in life sir. Time will heal all...

Once again, more "Drivel" from "The Drizel". I do not hate Rossi by any stretch of the imagination and have the utmost respect for his outstanding talent, unstoppable drive, supernatural ability, incredible determination, endlessly long list of achievements and the massive contributions he has made to the sport of Motorcycle racing and its' popularity. His amazingly improved level of performance this season alone at the age of 36 was truly remarkable and nothing less than astonishing. What I dislike and take exception to were his poor behavior and unsportsmanlike conduct at various points this season. Hopefully, you have the objectivity and clarity of mind to make the distinction between the two. If not, I don't really know what else I can do to help you understand.

Lorenzo told the Movistar MotoGP TV channel shortly after Sunday's race that Marquez and Pedrosa's Spanish nationality had 'helped' him during the race, saying: “They knew what I had in play. The fact they are Spaniards like me helped me. That helped me because for sure in another kind of race they would have tried to overtake, which they didn't this time.

“If Valentino had been in my position and with Italians behind they would have done exactly the same. The title had to be for Spain.”

Asked to explain his comments in the post-race press conference, the Majorcan backpedalled somewhat, implying that he made the claims without fully understanding how the circumstances of the race had panned out for Marquez and Pedrosa.

I love Rossi but I agree with Jorge. He really did beat Rossi at everything except for rain performances and podium streak.

Regardless of the outcome Moto GP took a major blow. The millions of viewers as well as paying subscribers were robbed of an exciting finale and that will certainly play a part in whether or not I renew for next season. I'm sure I'm not alone.

If Moto GP is going to allow for nationalism in their sport then why not divide the teams up by nationalities then? There's the Olympics for that anyway.

Rossi lost, but he made it a series this year and the viewership was at a high due to his performances.

It just makes me appreciate WSB and BSB that much more. None of that monkeying around in those series.

I'm just impressed that at 36 years old, Rossi is better than 98% of the entire Moto GP grid. He's old in racing terms but after that performance of passing 20 riders he's not going anywhere. The last time he did that was at Philip Island several years back and I think he was on the Honda.

Rossi snapped at Marquez and he paid the penalty. Jorge's post race rant about Dorna not handing him the championship just killed any respect I had for him. What a pu$$y! Reminds me of a type of employee in Corporate America that will put a knife in your back at any given opportunity. lol

Anyhow, it's over. Maybe next season will be even better. I doubt Rossi will stop getting podiums. Pedrosa is back on form and looks to be the fastest he's ever been. I'd actually like to see him win it next season. Talk about a guy who's put his time in!

SECTION8 FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:

Password

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.