So a simple yet dedicated mundane item from 3.5 DnD is very sorely missed on my PFS character. In the Forgotten Realms Campaign setting on page 96 it lists a potion belt and a masterwork potion belt. These are worn as bandoleers but hold only potions. The regular belt holds 6 and the mwk belt holds 10. With either belt, once per round a potion can be drawn from it as a free action as opposed to a move action. This is due to the fact that there is no fumbling around in your gear searching- you just reach up and grab the potion.

Since this technological wonder is a simple strip of leather with slots sewn on, I was hoping it would be available in the Pathfinder system somewhere. Can an item such as this be found in any of the Pathfinder books? If so then please tell me which one so I can purchase it forthwith.

So a simple yet dedicated mundane item from 3.5 DnD is very sorely missed on my PFS character. In the Forgotten Realms Campaign setting on page 96 it lists a potion belt and a masterwork potion belt. These are worn as bandoleers but hold only potions. The regular belt holds 6 and the mwk belt holds 10. With either belt, once per round a potion can be drawn from it as a free action as opposed to a move action. This is due to the fact that there is no fumbling around in your gear searching- you just reach up and grab the potion.

Since this technological wonder is a simple strip of leather with slots sewn on, I was hoping it would be available in the Pathfinder system somewhere. Can an item such as this be found in any of the Pathfinder books? If so then please tell me which one so I can purchase it forthwith.

Given that spellcasters can instantly leaf through their Rolodex of bat guano and live crickets and pull out whatever they need for any given spell, I have no problem with someone wearing a bandolier, a chatelaine, or even an anachronistic photographer's vest instantly having some small useful item in their hand without having to rummage around in their backpack for it.

The "Attack of Opportunity" business is also extremely overdone, IMHO.

Did the old potion belt really reduce drawing to a free action? That's insane!

I thought it just negated the AoO for drawing it out or something.

I don't have the book on me, but I'm pretty sure both models (normal and masterwork) specified they only allowed one free action potion draw per round. So it's like a swift action that doesn't eat your swift action.

Edit: Yeah, once a round. Only difference between the two is number of potions there. Doesn't say drinking the potion is any different, just no rifling around in your stuff to find it. So no real benefit to an alchemist's extracts (my main concern), since retrieval is included in the action to consume an extract already (I thought).

Well my main concern is that I do not want people dipping into barbarian class to drink a potion as a move action and casting a spell or using a special ability, possibly with a swift action added to the mix.

Drawing a knife is a move action, I do not see it working any different for a potion. next thing we will have a "weapon belt" to allow drawing weapons as free action.

I've never quite understood it, but the devs really really really really really don't want PCs to be able to draw anything quickly unless it is a traditional weapon. The Quick Draw feat for Pathfinder has its wording changed from 3.5 to explicitly forbid all of the adventuring items one would expect PCs would want to draw quickly, such as positions.

I'm of the complete opposite mind. I want to see a whole slew of mundane items that are specifically tailored to make PCs more efficient. I dislike that magic is the only way to really start becoming efficient.

The problem is that the game rules have system mastery baked into it from 3.0, but almost all of that system mastery is very "meta" where it deals with combining this or that feat or ability to gain more effectiveness. Because these elements are fairly abstract and framed within the meta-structure of the rules, you aren't really mapping efficiency to anything the player is doing within the game world.

What would be great would be for a lot of efficiency to come from ordinary mundane items. Go down the list of actions in the combat chapter and tease out as many different actions which could be performed faster if the PC uses an item or combination of items. Say, make sheaths mean something in the game. Allow for quick access belts and bandoliers, have quick release backpacks, etc.

If you did that, then at least it would provide a baseline of efficiency with the system that properly maps over the immersion of being in the here-and-now of the game. That experience of efficiency, by using the power of tools to perform more quickly, helps augment immersion because it fits in with our intuitive understanding of how the world works.

Unfortunately, that isn't there and instead we have weird incoherent abstract effects. Wizards can grab whatever they need from their pouch in an instant, likewise Alchemists can get their concoctions out without any effort... but otherwise it requires everyone else, dedicated adventurers that would have learned from experience, to get something out with a move action or full round action.

The other element is that swift actions simply aren't being used much in the system, and they would be mechanism for these kinds of equipment. They don't jump to a free action, which can have unintended side effects, and instead fit right into the timeframe that models well equipment that is designed to be accessed quickly.

The problem is that all that mundane gear is meaningless, the only thing it will achieve is that everyone has a standard list of gear and now retrieving potions is a free action 'oh you dont got a fancy potion belt like everyone ? sucker..'

Besides I think a move action to get a potion is reasonable IF it is within easy reach, so I basically assume it is tucked in your belt or in a bandoleer already. If it is inside the backpack on your back, you might as well forget it, it will take at least a full round getting it.

The problem is that all that mundane gear is meaningless, the only thing it will achieve is that everyone has a standard list of gear and now retrieving potions is a free action 'oh you dont got a fancy potion belt like everyone ? sucker..'

Besides I think a move action to get a potion is reasonable IF it is within easy reach, so I basically assume it is tucked in your belt or in a bandoleer already. If it is inside the backpack on your back, you might as well forget it, it will take at least a full round getting it.

I'm not sure why standard gear would be meaningless. That's the current state of things. Belts, bandoliers, etc are meaningless at the moment. But if you gave them mechanical properties that had an impact in the game then they'd actually fit in with how the world works.

Also, in general these types of things would be swift actions. Just enough of an action to pull something out, but not enough to do crazy free action things with other combos.

At that point you'd have a situation that intuitively makes sense, you could move + draw a holstered item + use it, all within six seconds. Anyone ought to be able to move 30', draw a wand/potion/alchemist fire and use it in a single round. Nothing in that sounds like a break from reality. And yet there are all sorts of other combinations of actions within six seconds that are actually very difficult to comprehend, such as firing seven arrows in six seconds.

My assumption there is that you used the Errol Flynn special effect of nocking seven arrows on one bowstring and fired them all at once. It's not realistic but it looks fantasy cool, and is at least better than the archer having quicker timing than the Flash.

The problem is that all that mundane gear is meaningless, the only thing it will achieve is that everyone has a standard list of gear and now retrieving potions is a free action 'oh you dont got a fancy potion belt like everyone ? sucker..'

Besides I think a move action to get a potion is reasonable IF it is within easy reach, so I basically assume it is tucked in your belt or in a bandoleer already. If it is inside the backpack on your back, you might as well forget it, it will take at least a full round getting it.

I'm not sure why standard gear would be meaningless. That's the current state of things. Belts, bandoliers, etc are meaningless at the moment. But if you gave them mechanical properties that had an impact in the game then they'd actually fit in with how the world works.

Also, in general these types of things would be swift actions. Just enough of an action to pull something out, but not enough to do crazy free action things with other combos.

At that point you'd have a situation that intuitively makes sense, you could move + draw a holstered item + use it, all within six seconds. Anyone ought to be able to move 30', draw a wand/potion/alchemist fire and use it in a single round. Nothing in that sounds like a break from reality. And yet there are all sorts of other combinations of actions within six seconds that are actually very difficult to comprehend, such as firing seven arrows in six seconds.

I am not against drawing a potion as part of a move action, much like drawing a weapon I find that perfectly acceptable. Allowing it to use it as a swift action is something like saying: it is really a swift action. Having it as a similar action to drawing a weapon makes plenty of sense, no need to make it swift by default.

Well my main concern is that I do not want people dipping into barbarian class to drink a potion as a move action and casting a spell or using a special ability, possibly with a swift action added to the mix.

I assume that you're referring to the Barbarian Archetype ability. They can only use that when Raging, which prevents them from doing anything requiring concentration. So no spells, and quite a restriction on what abilities they can do, unless they sink another level into it to get the "Moment of Clarity" rage power. Or end their rage and become Fatigued, essentially hosing themselves anyway.

Remco Sommeling wrote:

Drawing a knife is a move action, I do not see it working any different for a potion. next thing we will have a "weapon belt" to allow drawing weapons as free action.

That seems like a much more well-founded concern that I admit I hadn't thought about. I figured that part of drawing a weapon involved removing snaps and things that kept them from falling out during adventuring, just as the later Potion Belt incarnation involved leaving buttoned pouches either opened or closed.

Either way, I have no problems using equipment that encourages players to use the overpriced healing potions during combat. Especially if it competes with the ever-present magical belts.

How about a masterwork potion belt that lets you draw a potion as you would draw a weapon - it would let Quick Draw apply to potions, but wouldn't give *everyone* the ability to draw potions as a free action. Price tag: 500gp.

Did the old potion belt really reduce drawing to a free action? That's insane!

I thought it just negated the AoO for drawing it out or something.

+1

It should at least be a swift action.

Part of the issue is that swift action weren't introduced into the game until a few years after that book was published. It should have been errata d into swift, but I think WotC had a lot more pressing issues of truly broken material to worry about.

I've never quite understood it, but the devs really really really really really don't want PCs to be able to draw anything quickly unless it is a traditional weapon. The Quick Draw feat for Pathfinder has its wording changed from 3.5 to explicitly forbid all of the adventuring items one would expect PCs would want to draw quickly, such as positions.

I know this is an old post, but just for those reading for the first time, this isn't true. The 3.5 Quick Draw feat as written only works with weapons.

3.5 Quick Draw wrote:

Benefit: You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill, page 81) as a move action.

A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).

All Pathfinder did was clarify it. It didn't actually change what 3.5 Quick Draw as written did.

PF Quick Draw wrote:

Alchemical items, potions, scrolls, and wands cannot be drawn quickly using this feat.