"At a speech in Reno on Saturday, Sarah Palin said she thinks a recently discussed media boycott of her is good--because then she won't get "blamed" for the uprising in Egypt.

According to a report by The Daily Beast, Palin made a clear reference to Washington Post columnist Dana Milbank's widely circulated pledge not to write anything about her for the whole of February. Milbank wrote that, since Palin did not hold political office and had become "more like Ann Coulter," he would try to ease his "obsession" with writing about her, or mentioning her in any media appearance, for a month.
Speaking at a meeting of the Safari Club, a hunting organization, Palin apparently said that was fine with her. The boycott, she said, "sounds good, because there's a lot of chaos in Cairo, and I can't wait to not get blamed for it--at least for a month.""
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_816159.html

I guess she doesn't support democracy either, sheesh, sheesh, sheesh!

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

"At a speech in Reno on Saturday, Sarah Palin said she thinks a recently discussed media boycott of her is good--because then she won't get "blamed" for the uprising in Egypt.

According to a report by The Daily Beast, Palin made a clear reference to Washington Post columnist Dana Milbank's widely circulated pledge not to write anything about her for the whole of February. Milbank wrote that, since Palin did not hold political office and had become "more like Ann Coulter," he would try to ease his "obsession" with writing about her, or mentioning her in any media appearance, for a month.
Speaking at a meeting of the Safari Club, a hunting organization, Palin apparently said that was fine with her. The boycott, she said, "sounds good, because there's a lot of chaos in Cairo, and I can't wait to not get blamed for it--at least for a month.""
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_816159.html

So, Sarah Palin "knows no bounds" because she makes a snarky quip about the obviously biased and obsessive writing and "reporting" regarding major events and her alleged influence over them?

"At a speech in Reno on Saturday, Sarah Palin said she thinks a recently discussed media boycott of her is good--because then she won't get "blamed" for the uprising in Egypt.

According to a report by The Daily Beast, Palin made a clear reference to Washington Post columnist Dana Milbank's widely circulated pledge not to write anything about her for the whole of February. Milbank wrote that, since Palin did not hold political office and had become "more like Ann Coulter," he would try to ease his "obsession" with writing about her, or mentioning her in any media appearance, for a month.
Speaking at a meeting of the Safari Club, a hunting organization, Palin apparently said that was fine with her. The boycott, she said, "sounds good, because there's a lot of chaos in Cairo, and I can't wait to not get blamed for it--at least for a month.""
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_816159.html

I guess she doesn't support democracy either, sheesh, sheesh, sheesh!

It's moronic!!!

"Glad I dont post so much as I won't get blamed for saving someone's life!"

God help America...

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

"As of a few minutes ago, WTI has just passed $91, which for those who have taken math means that $100 oil is less than $9 away. And as a reminder, every $1 rise in oil reduces US GDP by $100 billion, just as every cent increase in gas prices lowers disposable income by $600 million. Who would have thought that trillions in binary dollars just sitting there, unused, unwanted, doing nothing but taking up EEPROM space could possibly have an inflationary impact..."
~ http://www.zerohedge.com/article/cru...ed-out-minutes

I'm not sure where the quote abive got their figures from. They may not be accurate. Anyone who thinks they have more accurate figures please post them and I will too.

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

"As of a few minutes ago, WTI has just passed $91, which for those who have taken math means that $100 oil is less than $9 away. And as a reminder, every $1 rise in oil reduces US GDP by $100 billion, just as every cent increase in gas prices lowers disposable income by $600 million. Who would have thought that trillions in binary dollars just sitting there, unused, unwanted, doing nothing but taking up EEPROM space could possibly have an inflationary impact..."
~ http://www.zerohedge.com/article/cru...ed-out-minutes

I'm not sure where the quote abive got their figures from. They may not be accurate. Anyone who thinks they have more accurate figures please post them and I will too.

Brent Crude is $100.07 now.

Quote:

The price of Brent crude oil has hit $100 a barrel for the first time since October 2008 on concerns about the political unrest in Egypt.

You know one thing that is puzzling.... when wingers are in full flow (ie on a quite news week or when the Dems try to pass a bill, someone wants to build a mosque or else the Obama time of the month comes round) all you can hear day after day after day is the constant refrain:

The trouble with the Middle East is the dictators need to go blah, blah

The ME needs democracy honk honk

Free speech in Islamic lands etc etc
Well hear it is happening and so far we've had one person going on about Syria (though we had to decode that one), the obligatory reference to the Goddess Palin and an sweet Fanny Adams else.

Why are they so quiet?

It's almost like they don't want democracy in the region and are in mourning...

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

You know one thing that is puzzling.... when wingers are in full flow (ie on a quite news week or when the Dems try to pass a bill, someone wants to build a mosque or else the Obama time of the month comes round) all you can hear day after day after day is the constant refrain:

The trouble with the Middle East is the dictators need to go blah, blah

The ME needs democracy honk honk

Free speech in Islamic lands etc etc
Well hear it is happening and so far we've had one person going on about Syria (though we had to decode that one), the obligatory reference to the Goddess Palin and an sweet Fanny Adams else.

Why are they so quiet?

It's almost like they don't want democracy in the region and are in mourning...

I cannot speak for anyone but myself...and I'm not a "winger"...but I will say this. Mostly I've been trying to follow (when I can) what's going and try to understand it. But in the broader strokes, I have no problem seeing HM gone from Egypt...but that's up to the Egyptian people. Secondly, I don't specifically or necessarily favor democracy...but rather freedom (for all people, everywhere). These two things are not necessarily one in the same (though they're often conflated).

I cannot speak for anyone but myself...and I'm not a "winger"...but I will say this. Mostly I've been trying to follow (when I can) what's going and try to understand it. But in the broader strokes, I have no problem seeing HM gone from Egypt...but that's up to the Egyptian people. Secondly, I don't specifically or necessarily favor democracy...but rather freedom (for all people, everywhere). These two things are not necessarily one in the same (though they're often conflated).

You're not in the winger class are you though? Not sure where you fit in so you'll have to be unclassified hahah! Not that it;s up to me - all the labeling here seems to be self-labelling!!

Your points raise an interesting issue - one I often ponder over and is why I don't vote: basically it's this - is it ever possible to actually HAVE freedom?

I mean freedom for the majority - sure. bit even this only holds if the majority choose an 'acceptable' expression of freedom.

For some people wearing total niqab is freedom. Fair enough but that expression - at least here in Europe (is recently banned where I live) is often opposed and restricted. And there are many other (harmless) examples.

I am not sure it is possible to have freedom across the board. So if this is true then on what basis do we decide where to draw the line?

This is actually very relevant to the Egypt situation and they will have to address it soon...it is a very difficult issue. The West does not address it but just pays lip-service to democracy and this has worked till now...but with the impact of other cultures who do not have the same basis the cracks are showing.

In the East they do not address this issue either - but they don't run away from it. They handle it by a shift to the (imo false) certainties of hard-line fundamentalism which makes the issue a moot one.

What do you think? Is freedom possible? Do we have it? if not then should we not go back to the drawing board and try to get it?

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

Your points raise an interesting issue - one I often ponder over and is why I don't vote: basically it's this - is it ever possible to actually HAVE freedom?

I believe it is, but it requires constant vigilance because it seems that there's always someone around who thinks they ought to be telling you what you can an cannot do and shouting "There oughta be a law damnit!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by segovius

I mean freedom for the majority - sure. bit even this only holds if the majority choose an 'acceptable' expression of freedom.

Definitely a good point. We live in a time where the majority doesn't really either understand or want freedom...or they want it for themselves but not so much for others. This puts a burden on those who value freedom to constantly be communicating, education, informing and driving home the value of freedom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by segovius

I am not sure it is possible to have freedom across the board.

I think it's possible but hard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by segovius

This is actually very relevant to the Egypt situation and they will have to address it soon...it is a very difficult issue.

Agreed. They could very easily and quickly find themselves with a new, different kind of dictator (or, more generally, tyranny and oppression).

Quote:

Originally Posted by segovius

What do you think? Is freedom possible? Do we have it? if not then should we not go back to the drawing board and try to get it?

I think it is possible. I think it hard to get and to keep. I also don't think it is necessarily binary (you have freedom or you don't) by virtue of the fact that you can have freedom in some things and some areas of life but not in others*. Do we have it? I guess it depends on who "we" is and on what subject you're talking. In the US indeed we do have a great many freedoms but, I'd argue, many fewer than 20, 50 or 100 years ago. Some areas of life are much less free than others.

*In a similar vein, I don't think it is easy to simply say a country (or politician) is "socialist", "free-market capitalist" or "fascist" or whatever because there appear to be degrees of these things.

Rather than wax philosophically about what freedom is let's hope the people of Egypt get a bit more of it than they've had in the past. You don't need to be a rocket surgeon to know that they need more of it than they have now.

Rather than wax philosophically about what freedom is let's hope the people of Egypt get a bit more of it than they've had in the past. You don't need to be a rocket surgeon to know that they need more of it than they have now.

No, it doesn't take a Rocket Surgeon to realize this. However, I think, it does take more depth of thought to realize that they could over throw one tyranny and install another one that starts with a veneer of freedom and lead them down a path of repeating past mistakes.

Rather than wax philosophically about what freedom is let's hope the people of Egypt get a bit more of it than they've had in the past. You don't need to be a rocket surgeon to know that they need more of it than they have now.

That will depend on whether the US can butt out.

Which it can't. Even if it wanted to (which it doesn't) Israel would have that Batphone ringing off the hook quicker than you can say 'yes massuh'.

If you look at all the shit going down in the ME they fall into two distinct categories:

1) Results of US/UK Imperialism

2) Reactions (and over-reactions) to US/UK Imperialism

So, they've had a US puppet. They'll get another one or they will be Iraqified.

Only two options on the menu I'm afraid (unless some sort of quasi-revolutionary movements or at least solidarity movements kick off in the West.)

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

No, it doesn't take a Rocket Surgeon to realize this. However, I think, it does take more depth of thought to realize that they could over throw one tyranny and install another one that starts with a veneer of freedom and lead them down a path of repeating past mistakes.

It's deeper. Waxing philosophical is, unfortunately, here necessary.

Many people regard what some here might think of as 'hardline Islam' as freedom. They may want it. They may vote for it. They may get it.

In such a case who is anyone - even in Islamic culture but certainly in the West, who is anyone to say "that is not freedom" if they feel it is?

Is that freedom?

Because if it is then for sure they will see that as the same old story - the West imposing their own ideas and ideals. And the cycle will begin again.

There may be problems in that region but there are also problems of an equal weight but different nature in the West. Both sides need to fix their own asap before they can come together.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

surely our inclination, other things being equal, should be towards representative government. We have, after all, made the same mistake before. In Iran, we lined up behind a brutal autocracy because the alternative was thought to be Islamic fundamentalism. As Sarah Palin might put it, Hows that workin out for ya?

We did the same thing in Algeria, refusing to recognise a legitimate election result, and plunging the country into a whorl of entropy which spews out radical preachers and suicide bombers. We are doing the same thing in Saudi Arabia. And we are certainly doing so in one country which I do know a bit about: Uzbekistan. Because Islam Karimov had the wit, in 2001, to declare himself an ally in the war on terror, we have propped up his monstrous regime. Karimov was sly enough to label all his opponents jihadis: this in a country where Islam was only ever fitfully observed, and where seventy years of Soviet atheism had virtually eliminated the old faith. But, of course, Karimovs propaganda has become self-fulfilling. Repeatedly told that the only alternative was Islamic fundamentalism, some Uzbeks turned in desperation to that doctrine. The West is creating the very thing it purports to fear.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

"The Egyptian Army announced Monday for the first time that it would not fire on protesters, even as tens of thousands of people gathered in central Liberation Square for a seventh day to demand the ouster of President Hosni Mubarak.

The extraordinary announcement delivered on state TV with no elaboration by the Armys official spokesman declared that freedom of expression through peaceful means is guaranteed to everybody. Yet, coming from a government dominated by former military officers, including Mr. Mubarak, it raised as many questions as it answered.

Experts said it could reveal cracks in the ruling elite, or perhaps reflected an evolving strategy to resurrect the police, who were back on the streets Monday for the first time in days. Others took it at face value, as a straightforward promise to abstain from any violence against Egyptians, but others saw a veiled threat to those who would go beyond peaceful means.

Whatever the motivation, the opposition was not prepared to celebrate the announcement as the turning point it was in Tunisia, where the regime collapsed after the military refused to shoot at its own people."
~ http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/wo...t.html?_r=1&hp

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

I'm not sure I've taken a position on anything here. Other that it's sure funny to watch Bashar scurry like a rat and it's hard living next to a democracy and not want some for yourself. But we can all agree on that.

I'm not sure I've taken a position on anything here. Other that it's sure funny to watch Bashar scurry like a rat and it's hard living next to a democracy and not want some for yourself. But we can all agree on that.

Let's keep trying.

It can be a metaphor - just like those suffering under oppression strive for freedom even if it seems impossible, so we here can strive to get you to make points that make sense and to engage in debate - that is after all, the point of a debating forum.

So...in that spirit: what form does this scurrying evinced by President Asad take?

Just making a valid comment on the Egypt situation? Or perhaps, and I rather incline to this, Syria to you represents something like Palin represents to me.

With the exception of course that I know quite a lot about Palin and any criticism of her is based on facts and you seem to know nothing of Syria but still have it as a hate figure.

I've encountered this before. Is quite fascinating.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

Who cares about Palin? She rarely cross my mind. Other than the amusement I get at watching liberals go bat shit crazy over her.

Don't you think it's funny to read that dictator like Bashar all of a sudden thinks NOW is the time for reform. Not last month or last year but NOW! I guess the idea of swinging by a noose causes one to act fast to save their hide. Who next? Gaddafi?

Don't you think it's funny to read that dictator like Bashar all of a sudden thinks NOW is the time for reform. Not last month or last year but NOW! I guess the idea of swinging by a noose causes one to act fast to save their hide. Who next? Gaddafi?

Most of the years I spent in Syria were when his father was in power. The other son Basil was lined up for the take-over succession and for sure he would have been a lot worse (imho). Bashar was actually never considered at all for this role. He just wanted to carry on being an eye doctor in London but when Basil was killed in a car crash he was shoe-horned into it. At first I think he tried to make a few reforms but he hadn't reckoned on the army that effectively ran things. It took him ten years to get any reforms through.....but many things have changed. IN fact as much as is possible to change in the time has changed imo.

He is what you would probably call a dictator - but so what from a US pov? They support dictators all over the world no problem. He is not of the same type though imo. His father was but not him.

The only problem here is that he is a non-US friendly dictator. I would even argue that he is not really a dictator in the mould of Mubarak - elections are not rigged as such and although human rights abuses occur they are nowhere near the scale of Egypt or even Saudi.

I don't get the hostility to Syria - it has a way to go with reform but it is way, way down the list of 'the bad guys'.

Of course the US propaganda machine brainwashes the citizens with Syria and Iran....both places I would personally guarantee you would be absolutely safe and welcomed in regardless of political opinion or nationality (unless the US was carpet bombing somewhere nearby at the time) which is certainly not the case in the US puppet regimes or allies like Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi (you could well be killed if you managed to go there in certain instances - and if you did go you would see some horrors I assure you) and all the rest of the Boys in the Band.

The fact is a sad one but nevertheless true: Iran and Syria are not controllable by the US and refuse to take the shilling.

If they DID come on board and - say - increased torture and general evil-doing by 500% then they would be welcomed with open arms as 'reforming and embracing democracy'. This actually happened with Bush if your recall...the Saudis went on some torture spree (literally) and clamped down on women's rights (the few they have) and he praised their reforms a few weeks later.

That's what we're dealing with - and they know it. Hence the hate towards them.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

One other thing - I hadn't known the context of Asad's comments, nor had an exact quote.....this was because you refused to provide the links, context or quote despite being encouraged by myself and another poster to engage more fully.

I didn't bother to go looking but now I have and it is interesting. First, it seems that protests are planned for Damascus and Aleppo and his comments were in this context. We'd never have known. Now we do....you should have shared that. Because in context I agree with you....but we didn't get to that bit. C'est la vie.

As it happens I would be behind the protesters on this...of course they need more freedom. And their demo may well be suppressed. Still, I want to make it clear that I would be with the protesters and the people right down the line.

One thing though....when I read this:

Quote:

Protest organizers want better living standards, human rights improvements and a greater voice for youth, according to the Middle East Media Research Institute, a Washington-based organization that studies and translates news accounts and social-media postings.

I know to reach for an enormous pinch of salt. ACCORDING TO MEMRI. - words to set alarm bells ringing into meltdown.

There is a reason that they always have to add 'a Washington-based...' to every mention of MEMRI - because it may have a base in Washington but it's general centre is a tad closer to Tel Aviv and it serves one purpose and one alone.

I think they have repeatedly been caught in dramatic distortions of truth on many occasions. I don't know why they bother: most Americans already believe all that about Muzzlims and the ME and far, far worse.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

One other thing - I hadn't known the context of Asad's comments, nor had an exact quote.....this was because you refused to provide the links, context or quote despite being encouraged by myself and another poster to engage more fully.

I didn't refuse to link so much as assume someone like you that so scary smart and ultra informed would already know current events and basic information.

It's only 'wow' to people who don't know shit about Iran beside what the warhawks tell them.

Yeah...and to people who cannot conceive how a people's voice somewhere thousands of miles away in a vastly different culture thousands of years older than their own may somehow....you know.....want different things...

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

A subtractive color model explains the mixing of paints, dyes, inks, and natural colorants to create a full range of colors, each caused by subtracting (that is, absorbing) some wavelengths of light and reflecting the others. The color that a surface displays depends on which colors of the electromagnetic spectrum are reflected by it and therefore made visible.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

I guess those open elections and political process in Iraq has wet the beak of the arab street. They need to slake their thirst now.

It's something a rabid bush-supporter would say, "See, Bush was right all along, by invading and forcing Iraq to embrace democracy, the people in the other arabic states will see how much better Iraq's situation has become, how freedom, selfdetermination... leads to prosperity... so that they would long for the same for their societies..."

but the problem with that argument is that Iraq is very far away from enjoying the fruits of its new freedoms, entangled in so many problems, be it the shia-sunni-kurd-relations, the rampant corruption, torture, militias.. that it can't possibly serve as the "light" Bush envisioned, at least not yet, maybe decades later, if (a big if) Iraq solved its mess eventually.

I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?