Decent at low gear levels. Survival plays very well in dungeons and is fairly easy to learn. As for high gear levels, there are a lot of intricacies and micro management requirements to the class which can be frustrating. Be prepared to learn how to play both BM and Survival.

If I am not mistaken, they are easy to pickup and play but how are they when it comes to mastering and getting a full grip of the class. Is it tough to do or relatively easy or in-between?

Pretty much what most people have already said. I imagine this is why many people (at least from what I've seen) have a hunter alt: 1. They feel OP in lower level gear when soloing and doing dungeons. 2. Our shots do similar damage so as long as you're casting SOMETHING you'll get ok numbers, doing it wrong on other classes is much more punishing. 3. Lack of having to stand still provides slightly less complexity with mechanics.

Unless you're in a progression guild it is reasonable to stay one spec over the other. You will of course get better DPS out of BM single target and better AoE depending on the situation from Survival. This is however if you are playing the spec optimally, which I would wager most non progression or heroic hunters are not doing.

If you're just starting out I would suggest going survival, as it is easier of the two to play. I would then suggest mastering it, that is, understanding how to conserve focus for shots coming off CD, using DPS Cooldowns at the proper time, using personal utility skills etc... much of this will transfer to BM. Once you have that then I would suggest attempting BM as it does have some intricacies that Survival does not. Personally, and I think most people in a raid would agree, I would rather have someone doing very well with one spec than mediocre with two especially since we're not going to see insane DPS differences between AoE/Cleave/Single situations that some of the other classes enjoy.

Marksmanship is pretty meh in single target and bad in AoE. It can be ok with the T14 4p, but even then it gets clunky as your ideal focus dump (Aimed) costs 50 focus and Chimera costs 45, leaving you with a buffer of 5 focus before focus capping.

Personally, and I think most people in a raid would agree, I would rather have someone doing very well with one spec than mediocre with two especially since we're not going to see insane DPS differences between AoE/Cleave/Single situations that some of the other classes enjoy.

Honestly though, if you want to raid in the future just go with bm right away, the time you put into in will later reflect in your dps. Survival requires a grand total of 5 minutes to learn, so just do that on Tortos HC trash (since that's the only boss where you might actually need sv, though even that is just my noob opinion because I have yet to find my pet during that bloody boss encounter and it buggers my misdirect).

Honestly though, if you want to raid in the future just go with bm right away, the time you put into in will later reflect in your dps. Survival requires a grand total of 5 minutes to learn, so just do that on Tortos HC trash (since that's the only boss where you might actually need sv, though even that is just my noob opinion because I have yet to find my pet during that bloody boss encounter and it buggers my misdirect).

Trash and adds are two different thing. If u kiting bats in tortos bm is better, if u kill em bm is still better if pet is positioned good, survival is good in that fight and IMO in any other fight only for scumbag dps. Megaera survival might be better since pet has pathing bugs there. Only place where survival is better is trash before ji-kun, God I hate those snails.

It's funny how hunters at the same time complain that we need more utility and meanwhile claiming bm is superior just because it does a bit more dps.

My 10m raid has stubborn casters who don't switch very good to adds on council for instance. I could complain which won't change a thing because humans don't change, or I could play sv which can handle adds tons better than a bm could. Our raid setup also lacks in the aoe department so while a bm can do fun dps on keeping pet on 50/100/150/200 debuffed Horridon, I play sv so that the adds actually die while our multidotters are too busy padding on Horridon.
Last week I even had to switch from bats to turtles on tortos because our damned warlock couldn't listen and kept aoeing the bats instead of dotting up the turtles. I dropped from 350k dps to 245k dps but I don't care, we got the kill and I still beaten the warlock on the meters.

That's utility guys. You lose on the dps but you gain on getting a kill which is the real goal of most raid groups. If you hate how limited bm is, just switch to sv and meet a world where you can handle every dps situation needed. Hunter utility doesn't come in the form of 1 button you can push to save the raid, it has always been and should always be our versatility. There is not 1 other spec in the game which is so adaptable and who can easily switch to aiding bad situations.

I'm not saying we are doing the dps that is acceptable and Blizzard has gone too far for leaving our class broken like this for a complete expansion which is inexcusable but expected from how bad they have become at developing. But I am saying that hunters are still an extremely good class for progression because of our versatility in how we apply dps, nobody is better at avoiding damage which in turn helps your healers tremendously (aside from ironhawk and our perfect movement, our +10% healing is too often forgotten) and we are almost always the best class to do the gimmick mechanics that some fights have.

I loved my hunter. I hate the current hunter community that wants to turn them into brainless dps just like the other uninspired classes are. Soon druids will be the only interesting class left but sadly they are always more broken than hunters are.

Easy to play and faceroll in pvp where they are disgustingly overpowered.

Their dps isn't really impressive in pve, though, which is the only reason GC isn't bringing down the nerf hammer upon them, cause he has no clue how to tweak them without wrecking their dps in dragon slaying dungeons.

Easy to play and faceroll in pvp where they are disgustingly overpowered.

Their dps isn't really impressive in pve, though, which is the only reason GC isn't bringing down the nerf hammer upon them, cause he has no clue how to tweak them without wrecking their dps in dragon slaying dungeons.

What I meant was sv is so p*ss easy you can learn the whole spec during that trash IF you want to use it on tortos (joke. joke.). I haven't done Tortos as bm in a while, but unless you're allowed to stay on bats/boss wouldn't your pet have to cover miles running around in order to get to his target? Meanwhile sv is so easy, when kiting bats you get to serpent sting all of them and dps greed without greeding since it's necessary for md :P

Having said that, I do agree that bm is better for everything else.

Originally Posted by StijnDP

Our raid setup also lacks in the aoe department so while a bm can do fun dps on keeping pet on 50/100/150/200 debuffed Horridon, I play sv so that the adds actually die while our multidotters are too busy padding on Horridon.

Mate bm is brilliant on Horridon ads, beast cleave is great... How about make your friends dps the correct targets and play the spec you want? Now, I don't do great on Council but my Twisted Fate goes down in seconds with a KC. I think you're being over-dramatic here.

Originally Posted by StijnDP

That's utility guys. You lose on the dps but you gain on getting a kill which is the real goal of most raid groups.

So you're saying hunter utility is that we don't greed on dps? That's dumb. You're talking about the players here, not the class. If you want to make a victim out of yourself, that's fine, but you know some of us have good raid teams who prioritise the correct targets? You can't call that raid utility.

Originally Posted by StijnDP

and we are almost always best class to do the gimmick mechanics that some fights have.

This is not our utility either. Other classes have either one of those "one button" ones (tranq/totems/smoke bomb/healthstones etc), or are mages. So it makes sense to send us to do all the painting/dancing/singing when a boss fight requires it. I don't mind it, it makes the fights fun, but I see where people are coming from with all the utility/dps whining. But yeah, you can't call utility the fact that we are considered as the most likely to be sent off to do that stuff, it's not because we're good at it, it's because other classes are wanted on boss. Because we don't have a utility.

(Just to counter other possible arguments, MD doesn't count since rogues have it + like a million others, also there's a limited amount of fights it's needed, while a tranq is always useful... buffs don't count since each class has 1-2 and if you have people to choose from, you can make a team without a hunter and still have all covered)

Originally Posted by StijnDP

I hate the current hunter community that wants to turn them into brainless dps just like the other uninspired classes are.

Survival = pretty much the definition of a brainless spec, so what difference will it make for you?

All in all, personally I like my dps and my spot as the painter/dancer/whatevs, and I love bm at the moment, but I still think that others make a good point. We DO have less utility than others (again, utility = one button raid wide anything-that-helps) and we can't boost out crazy dps like mages which would make it fair. If you feel like an extra utility to your raid group, means they are not doing what they're meant to on boss fights.

It's funny how hunters at the same time complain that we need more utility and meanwhile claiming bm is superior just because it does a bit more dps.

My 10m raid has stubborn casters who don't switch very good to adds on council for instance. I could complain which won't change a thing because humans don't change, or I could play sv which can handle adds tons better than a bm could. Our raid setup also lacks in the aoe department so while a bm can do fun dps on keeping pet on 50/100/150/200 debuffed Horridon, I play sv so that the adds actually die while our multidotters are too busy padding on Horridon.
Last week I even had to switch from bats to turtles on tortos because our damned warlock couldn't listen and kept aoeing the bats instead of dotting up the turtles. I dropped from 350k dps to 245k dps but I don't care, we got the kill and I still beaten the warlock on the meters.

That's utility guys. You lose on the dps but you gain on getting a kill which is the real goal of most raid groups. If you hate how limited bm is, just switch to sv and meet a world where you can handle every dps situation needed. Hunter utility doesn't come in the form of 1 button you can push to save the raid, it has always been and should always be our versatility. There is not 1 other spec in the game which is so adaptable and who can easily switch to aiding bad situations.

I'm not saying we are doing the dps that is acceptable and Blizzard has gone too far for leaving our class broken like this for a complete expansion which is inexcusable but expected from how bad they have become at developing. But I am saying that hunters are still an extremely good class for progression because of our versatility in how we apply dps, nobody is better at avoiding damage which in turn helps your healers tremendously (aside from ironhawk and our perfect movement, our +10% healing is too often forgotten) and we are almost always the best class to do the gimmick mechanics that some fights have.

I loved my hunter. I hate the current hunter community that wants to turn them into brainless dps just like the other uninspired classes are. Soon druids will be the only interesting class left but sadly they are always more broken than hunters are.

I would rebut your argument but it really makes no sense at all to begin with.

It's funny how hunters at the same time complain that we need more utility and meanwhile claiming bm is superior just because it does a bit more dps.

My 10m raid has stubborn casters who don't switch very good to adds on council for instance. I could complain which won't change a thing because humans don't change, or I could play sv which can handle adds tons better than a bm could. Our raid setup also lacks in the aoe department so while a bm can do fun dps on keeping pet on 50/100/150/200 debuffed Horridon, I play sv so that the adds actually die while our multidotters are too busy padding on Horridon.
Last week I even had to switch from bats to turtles on tortos because our damned warlock couldn't listen and kept aoeing the bats instead of dotting up the turtles. I dropped from 350k dps to 245k dps but I don't care, we got the kill and I still beaten the warlock on the meters.

That's utility guys. You lose on the dps but you gain on getting a kill which is the real goal of most raid groups. If you hate how limited bm is, just switch to sv and meet a world where you can handle every dps situation needed. Hunter utility doesn't come in the form of 1 button you can push to save the raid, it has always been and should always be our versatility. There is not 1 other spec in the game which is so adaptable and who can easily switch to aiding bad situations.

I'm not saying we are doing the dps that is acceptable and Blizzard has gone too far for leaving our class broken like this for a complete expansion which is inexcusable but expected from how bad they have become at developing. But I am saying that hunters are still an extremely good class for progression because of our versatility in how we apply dps, nobody is better at avoiding damage which in turn helps your healers tremendously (aside from ironhawk and our perfect movement, our +10% healing is too often forgotten) and we are almost always the best class to do the gimmick mechanics that some fights have.

I loved my hunter. I hate the current hunter community that wants to turn them into brainless dps just like the other uninspired classes are. Soon druids will be the only interesting class left but sadly they are always more broken than hunters are.

Serpent spread isn't raid utility, it's just a spec mechanic. Other classes can multidot just fine. Just as well? Maybe not but it doesn't actually do anything to benefit the raid other than doing damage. Are you attempting to say doing DPS is raid utility?

Serpent spread isn't raid utility, it's just a spec mechanic. Other classes can multidot just fine. Just as well? Maybe not but it doesn't actually do anything to benefit the raid other than doing damage. Are you attempting to say doing DPS is raid utility?

I think he's saying hunters are the only class with brains and that's our raidutlity? oh all those days of being called a huntard was actually a compliment!

If I am not mistaken, they are easy to pickup and play but how are they when it comes to mastering and getting a full grip of the class. Is it tough to do or relatively easy or in-between?

Isn't it the design for every class?

If it's tough or relatively easy, well like you said, it's relative.... I personally think every class in WoW is easy to master. But on the other hand, I see hunters still struggling to push 80k in 510ish ilvl. I actually see all the other dps class struggling to push 80k in 510ish ilvl, not counting LFR.

So I really can't tell for you if it's easy or not. To me, WoW is one of the easiest game to perform in, but it probably isn't since I see people being terribly bad everyday. I would say that the difficulty factor of mastering a class depends on your ability to put the effort in it, or passion.

Hunters are great, currently our "overall DPS" is considered lower in PvE but if your a good hunter you can still out DPS mediocre players of all other classes. You may find issues out DPSing good players but its really going to spitting hairs over 20-50k dps. In the end a smart raid group will take you if your a good hunter, our manoeuvrability and ability to DPS with 100% uptime should still be considered handing when creating a raid.