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Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

Originally Posted by Ouroboros

It's funny to look back at that scene in light of the episodes that happened later like "broken ties" where it shows how the Wraith interrogation process actually works.

Probably because the interrogation process in BT and EATG was just some made up thing for later and was never intended this way. Why would they interrogate like this. First they are telepaths and second if you give back the victims life, it's not just a threat anymore to take it, is it. And I also think that would put a body quite through some strain leading to the death of the person. I really hated how they put this "gift of life" from Todd in CG into some ridiculous interrogation and braking method.

About the queen, is stabing her in the stomach really doing more damage then shot wounds? I was kinda surprised after we saw her healing abilities before. Also for the guards, they went down too quickly.

Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

Ok, I just started watching Atlantis. I really never like McKay in SG-1, but he gets one iota of respect from me because he was the one telling Weir it was time to go and she was pulling a Daniel trying to stay. Of course, I still think it's his weenie survival instinct, but at least he seemed to have it together and not be whining.

Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

This is a great start to the show, but I've seen the pilot a few too many times now which means I naturally find it a little more difficult to appreciate due to "rewatch fatigue". Atlantis is a gorgeous city, and the moment of it rising up out of the water is just stunning. I'm watching on blu-ray, so it looks better than ever (despite the fact that the CG shots appear to be upscaled and not true HD).

There's a great cast of characters put together here, but I was never the biggest fan on Dr. Beckett. Almost every line of dialogue he has appears to be complaining or whining. McKay is great, Shepard is a little bland at this point but a natural leader. I always liked Weir, but I'm not a Teyla fan at all. Ford is also not the most vibrant of characters at this point, and originally I didn't like him all that much. In the guest star roles, Robert Patrick is fantastic and Chris Heyerdahl is always awesome whatever part he's playing.

Immediately, the Wraith are a far more interesting enemy than the Goa'uld. The only aspect of them which doesn't work for me is the Queen, who is somewhat unwatchable in her cheesiness. I quite like the digital Stargate, but I find myself slightly missing the classic spinning one. Puddle Jumpers are brilliant; I want one.

Story-wise, it's a nice transition from SG-1 and a good follow-on from Lost City. The first half actually moves very slowly, but I think it's necessary. There's a lot of info to be delivered, and the build-up to arriving at Atlantis needs to be effective. Looking back, however, very little really happens in the show: arrive at Atlantis, meet Athosians, wake up the Wraith. It's okay, though, because we get to spend time with the new characters and begin to get a feel for them.

It's been quite a while since I've watched Atlantis. It ended up being my favourite series of the franchise, so it will be interesting to see how I feel about it during the rewatch. The city of Atlantis itself is a lovely, lovely place. I kind of wish I lived there (apart from the constant risk of danger/attack/death).

Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

As pilots go Rise is really well done all the way around. Clearly they are benefitting from the years of experience with SG-1 because everything works together smoothly and looks like they've been around for years.

There are definitely things that will change and work themselves out as the series goes on, but the main framework is already surprisingly well defined by the end of the episode.

Can't say I like the wraith nearly as much as the Goa'uld; they're just not as much fun. Also I prefer false gods from ancient earth mythology to space vampires.

Nothing like Jack/Daniel banter. I can never get enough and it's a nice way to pass the baton. Sheppard clearly gets the leading man nod from Gen. O'Neill, and it seems like they are at least considering setting him up with Teyla the warrior princess.

Since the characterization and relationships are still early yet I'll hold off on commenting further for now, but Carson has always been a favorite from the beginning. He's such a cutie. Just had to add that in.

Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

I'd already said most of what belonged here in the pt 1 bit! It's one episode on my DVD and goes to show how much I know of this series of Stargate!

So I guess what's left is the Wraith. I seemed to recall them being a lot more scary first time round, and I was sure their 'soldiers' weren't that easy to kill, they revived really quickly. Here they went down easily as did the Queen since they were supposed to have amazing regeneration abilities.

Watching the Wraith Queen was interesting as Andee Frizzel who played her was talking about her part in this episode at the last Creation Convention in Vancouver a few weeks ago. She was telling us about how the Wraith started out as wearing Wraith hand 'gloves' which were really awkward to work with. I did notice on watching this episode that the tips of her fingers seemed to twist to the sides! Hers were made to size but she said the other 'Wraith' shared them and being made of silicone they ended up becoming very sweaty and smelly! Later on the actors' hands were painted. She also said the teeth she was wearing went flying to land on Sheppard's chest during shooting the scene with him on the table, he cried out, "this Wraith is falling apart!"

Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

Later that night if memory serves...

1. I'm with Shep on this one...they were already on the Wraith's radar and surely they would have come after Atlantis sooner or later if not Earth. They had nothing to lose by bringing it to the Wraith.

2. Problem is...they still woke up a load of Wraith.

3. The city rising scene...I forgot how impressive that looks.

4. Also forgot that McKay wasn't originally on Sheppard's team, wonder why JOhn picked him?

Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

Can't say I like the wraith nearly as much as the Goa'uld; they're just not as much fun. Also I prefer false gods from ancient earth mythology to space vampires.

Hmm yeah, I'm not sure I get the facination with the Wraith a lot of people seem to have on this forum yet. Maybe I need to see more of them...
Love the part when Atlantis rises though, freakin' awesome!

"Thanks to denial, I'm immortal."
"A big 'Hello' to all intelligent life out there, and for everyone else, the secret is to bang the rocks together, guys!""Excuse me, barmaid? You seem to have brought me the wrong offspring. I ordered an extra large boy with beefy arms, extra guts and glory on the side. This here, this is a talking fishbone!"
"I'm Jack. It means... what's in the box?"

Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

If part 1 is about the mystery then Part II is about the action. The first scene is the Atlantis team shooting at Wraith darts on Athos. That really sets the tone for the whole episode of action oriented. The whole rising of Atlantis because the shield failed is cool and everything but doesn't it seem a little deus ex machina to have the solution solved so easily. I like how the Wraith were introduced. Their was only a little information released. It makes them scary especially sense they were shown to have defeated the Ancients. Sure they get a little wussy later one but here in the moment its pretty awesome how they defeated the Ancients. The Puddle Jumper was an interesting idea that we know is fairly prominent in all 5 seasons of Atlantis. Once again they feel a little more mysterious then they are in later season. The nice thing about the pilot is yes we saved the day but its kind of a hollow victory in that not only did Shepherd have to kill Col. Summer but also he woke up the Wraith. So yes we won the battle but we may have made things worse

Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

Joe Mallozzi's notes on this episode:

RISING II (102)

Part 1 is the wind up and the pitch while Part 2 is the base-clearing grand slam that hits it out of the park. The sequence of the city of Atlantis rising from ocean’s depths is one of the most stirring moments in all of Stargate. Hmmm. That sounds like a great idea for a future post: Top 10 Moments in Stargate History. Well, in my books, Atlantis’s resurfacing would rank right up there.

Ah, the puddle jumpers. Brad had been pitching the idea of these compact hips capable of gate-travel as far back as SG-1?s seventh season. And the new show was the perfect opportunity to introduce them. As much as I thought the SG-1 gate superior to its Atlantis counterpart, SGA jumpers beat the hell out of both the F-302?s and those clunky cargo ships.

Ah, Jinto. We hardly knew you. As often happens in television, certain characters pop and are developed (ie. Where’d that Zelenka guy come from?) while others eventually fade into obscurity. The character of Jinto has the distinction of falling into the latter category for no other reason than: 1. He was a kid and 2. He was Athosian. While interesting, Teyla’s people became a less important part of the narrative as the series developed and so, they eventually left Atlantis to make their homes on the mainland and, later, off-world. As for Jinto, not much is known about following the events of those early episodes. I like to think that he became a productive member of Athosian society, settling down with his long-time sweetheart and eventually fathering two boys, Torren (named after Teyla’s fathter) and Toran (named after the Athosian who the wraith queen feasts upon in this episode). Alternately, I like to imagine he spent his years deep in the bowels of Atlantis, playing an protracted game of Hide and Seek following the episode of the same name, convinced he had the best hiding place ever – until his skeletal remains were discovered by an exploratory crew sometime in season four.

Speaking of evolving elements, two particular wraith attributes are in full display in this episode but appear to fade as the series progresses. 1. When our heroes are being harassed by wraith darts, they begin to glimpse ghostly images. We learn that these images are hallucinations being created by the wraith to confuse them. They’re, it turns out, a weaker manifestation of the queen’s mind controlling abilities. The reason we eventually lost this ability was because it was, essentially, a mind trick – and once it stood revealed as such, there wasn’t much traction to be gained by going back to it either for the wraith (as an effective tool to be used against us) or the writers (as a dramatic element). 2. The wraith are damn hard to kill! It takes multiple rounds to put them down for the count. And yet, in subsequent episodes, a couple of shots will do the trick. What gives? The answer: switching to more devastating armor-piercing rounds.

Re: Rising, Part 2

Rising (Part 2)

If Part 1 was the setup/mystery then Part 2 must be the payoff/action; this part also aims to do to our unknown enemy what they did to the Gou'ald in "Children of the Gods" and that is to establish them as a really credible threat but here's the twist, they made them deadlier then ever. Oh, and they got a cool name; the Wraith. I mean how cool is that?

Everything about this episode screams heart-pounding action, from the way the enemies are taken to the "are they there, aren't they?" feeling to even the gun shots and random explosions; it seems like there is an attempt to make it as chaotic as possible and though there are many times where it doesn't come through, they are making an effort since this is supposed to be different from SG1 and all. It's not limited to off-world as well; there is some action in Atlantis pertaining to imminent failure and the like and they really manage to showcase that tension all the way up (even using technobabble to further it) until the end where what happens that will both surprise you and be expected. Alot of the action is close ups of the guys and shots of their expressions as they call out military terms, shots as they attempt to kill the enemies and static scenes that more then not represents the rush and the danger that they're feeling right now which means that it's classic Stargate; almost anybody can get into the action and feel it but here's where the problem comes in, there isn't much that separates these guys from the average SG-1 crew, yet... There isn't anything that separates Shephard from O'Neill but his dialog and his actions do suggest that with time, he can become his own character action wise; same goes to all of the other guys because showing individuality from the mothership is the only way the show will survive.

They also present the whole "rescue mission" thing in mostly the same way, with shots that clearly shows them sneaking in, snooping around, looking for enemies, preparing stuff and just hoping that the plan goes through a-okay. It's a somewhat enjoyable experience mainly because we're watching these new guys explore the dark Wraith base of mystery and danger, filled to the brim with unexpectedness and clock-ticking and when the stuff does hit the fan, it gives a tremendous payoff that shows exactly what SG is capable of when it's focused and inspired. Shephard's actions and dialog help to add to the situation and to prevent many of the scenes from becoming boring, because you don't want your lose your audience during the most pivotal part of the episode do you? The near-death stuff is also a delight to see all that escaping and the attempts to dial the gate and get back to Atlantis come to fruition; (that space battle is one of the few in Stargate which are decent as it's both satisfying and purposeful.) it just brings a smile to your face doesn't it.

Doesn't it?

It's establishment of the Wraith as SGA's bad guy is deeper then it was in Part 1 (to the point where it takes up most of the episode), and for good reason. This episode shows us some of the inner workings of the Wraith, their culture, their genders, their intentions, their abilities, their ships and even some of their tactics; if you've seen SG-1 then you know who the Gou'ald are and if you're seeing SGA for the first time in history then you'll definitely notice the differences, everything feels more realer, more philosophical, more Gothic, more mysterious, more altruistic and definitely more powerful/unstoppable then it's predecessors. Their looks are very scary with their greenish-white on white look, their uniforms are more serious then they are funny, their methodology (involving a skeleton no less) is clear and they create a certain sense of paranoia that'll have viewers questioning themselves. All of this is good because they have to differentiate themselves from the Gou'ald however they can, otherwise the series itself would just be seen as a clone of SG-1 and nothing more; though there are some times where the Wraith seem no more like a Gou'ald clone/cliche sci-fi bad guy, the Wraith themselves mostly succeed in separating themselves from their Gou'ald brethren.

The lighting, CGI and detail featured in this episode is mostly amazing; it's clear that the creators knew what to do in order to showcase the beauty and scale that is Atlantis, with tons of warm colors, sunset motifs, water-based reflection shots, shots showing a specific element of Atlantis, and even certain nighttime shots. The lighting really reflects the situation at hand while managing to maintain a hint of realism on the side; in conversation scenes, you get sunset shining down the actors faces while they talk and nighttime when they're just talking, in action scenes you either get modest brightness or in the case of the later part of the episode, deep blue hues that suggest awkwardness and hopelessness; they know how to make the lighting just shine on the surfaces, reflect the characters and even hint at the appropriate situation even when there's no action going on, it's just a beaut to look at. Though there are some scenes where the entire thing feels unconvincing; as in the CGI doesn't entirely mix in with real-life, a jarring cut between the set and CGI, some things being out of scale and the occasional CGI error but for the most part, the special effects team manages to make this thing look very good with the budget that they have; this is certainly an impressive example of what anybody can do if they put their hearts and minds to it.

True beauty.

The characters themselves act mostly the same as they do in Part 1; but this time some of them are making different impacts on me. I'm starting to see Shephard as his own character, motivated, determined to follow through with promises, just an all around good guy. There is a visible attempt behind the actor to try to come up with as many catchphrases as possible, detracting from his character but the parts where he acts determined, the parts where he shows heart, the parts where he's confrontational, that's where Shephard lies in the SGA realm; there's also seems to be a romance brewing between Taylor (who's character is still undefined but is given some development) and Shephard which I hope will be explored sooner or later, they look very cute together. Dr. Weir is surprisingly better then she was in the first act, managing to show more emotion, sternness, empathy and leadership then ever before; the scenes with Shephard are the ones where it comes out the most as she manages to come across as a more modest/emotional General Hammond, one where she's hard but she has some amount of softness when it comes to situations like this; she yells sure but she manages to find some common ground, which is what will ultimately make people flock to Dr. Weir like birds aside from her character plus her acting which I thought was very decent. The others are mostly okay; Rodney is still 50/50 for me though he is starting to come across as annoying. (there's still time David, there's still time.)

Lastly, we can't forget about the stuff that's introduced... Yes even more stuff is introduced though much of it pertains to those ships we've seen in the beginning; through this episode, we learn of how they work, what they're capable of and what potential lies with these things. There is also something introduced that relates to people who've seen the 1994 directors cut of "Stargate", stuff that'll also provide possibilities and represent the differences of the universe that they're in as a whole; we also can't forget about the people from the village, the very people who'll be inhabiting Atlantis. I like that it reminds me of DS9 and with both the people the multicultural people from Earth and the people from the Village; it'll provide a ton of situations and it'll ensure that SGA is different from SG-1 in terms of both technology, possibilities, civilizations and bad guys.

Just imagine...

So while one part is good, the other is better with it's action packed pace and it's truly deadly feeling; it won't have you out of the seat much but when it does, it's a thrill to watch. The stuff shown here manages to establish the bad guy while leaving you with some really classic SG action that does not disappoint and the stuff here does not indicate that it'll be a Stargate clone; sure, it has much of the same basis but there are certain things that make Atlantis different from SG-1. Both parts combined however manages to make an impressive debut for such an ambitious series; it effectively shows you what this series will consist of, unfamiliar worlds, characters from across the globe, asian influences, action abound, mystery, the scale of Atlantis and a bad guy who's presence cannot be denied. It works really well as a movie, giving us great cinematic shots, decent buildup, a reason to invest in the characters and a satisfying ending as well, there are some scenes that are cringeworthy but those are outnumbered by the scenes that make us laugh and make us cry. There is some feeling that this could of been better then the combined parts but overall it manages to entertain the people who watched it on it's premiere day and launch the series in an impressive way and in the end, isn't that what's supposed to matter?

Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

Starting my SGA rewatch. I say rewatch but in reality i never saw them all in chronological order and iv missed a full 2 seasons so looking forward to enjoying SGA episode by episode. So far so good,1st episode which iv seen before but im paying close attention this time round,lol. Does anyone else think maybe the reason both SG1 and SGA folded is cos they were running in tandem?Maybe MGM could only afford one at a time,etc?I read from Peter Jackson interview today that he says The Hobbit nearly didnt happen cos MGM were going bust and thats when he stepped in as director after del torro pulled out,etc.

I do wonder if running SGA and SG1 at same time maybe was over ambitious considering the size of the audience.If the size of the audience wasnt the issue then what was? Mucho Gracias to the guy who put the whole of SGA on a kat.ph with all the SGA extras included!OK,time to get re-watching.Cheers

O'Neill: So, what's your impression of Alar?Teal'c: That he is concealing something.O'Neill: Like what?Teal'c: I am unsure. He is concealing it.

Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

I tried to get my mother into this series. Unfortunately, she said it was too intense for her. She also didn't think any of the characters were 'good looking' and the wraiths totally freaked her out. Oh well.

Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

Haha yes, I always get these reactions when I show them wraith. "Ewwl they're ugly!!"
Pay them no attention they're awesome *said a wraithfan*

I recently rewatched the show as well, paying attention and it's a pity that stuff like the wraith making you see things isn't continued in later seasons. I mean, they look and act a lot stronger here. As for Atlantis team I like McKay the most, he's funny the way he squeels XD and he's an amazing scientist doing things I could only dream of...
I like Ford, I think it's sad what they done to him because he could have been a great value to the series. I like the scene in the puddle jumper with him.

Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

I like Gate Ship 1 better. Puddle Jumper sounds like they wet themselves. Love the vampires just wish they were less evil. Being that advance you would think they could find some other way to eat without having to kill people.

Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

Originally Posted by Thorthewraith

Haha yes, I always get these reactions when I show them wraith. "Ewwl they're ugly!!"
Pay them no attention they're awesome *said a wraithfan*

I recently rewatched the show as well, paying attention and it's a pity that stuff like the wraith making you see things isn't continued in later seasons. I mean, they look and act a lot stronger here..

Perhaps the wraith felt that continuing to use them against us was counter productive as our minds were stronger than other humans they encountered, and figured we would eventually overcome them..??

Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

I've just started watching Atlantis (it's popped up on Netflix). It's also my first time watching it. At the risk of being flayed alive, after getting through all ten seasons of SG-1 in a ridiculously short time and absolutely loving it, I'm struggling with Atlantis.

My overall reaction to the pilot was... meh.

It just feels a little forced, though it has its moments. McKay has always been an a**, but a likable one nonetheless so that's a plus. I am not liking Sheppard. Could they not even give him a name other than John? Jack is the diminutive form of John, so essentially, he is also a Jack! I love O'Neill so much that it doesn't take much prompting to start drawing comparisons, but I really don't want to be encouraged to do that.

I realise SG-1 had a bit of an advantage because anyone who watched the film prior to the series was already introduced to the characters of Daniel and Jack and had already gotten to know them and like them. It didn't feel like you were starting off with a whole new show, more like getting reacquainted with old friends. Atlantis is definitely a whole new show, but I felt like they could've spent more time in the pilot letting us get to know some of the new characters.

So, overall I think it has potential. I'm gonna stick around for the first season and then go from there.

Re: Rising, Part 2 (102)

I already seen all of SGA, hmmm well I think I did now. Maybe I missed few but I don't feel it is as strong as SG1. I can go through a couple of SG1 but never more than 1 episode of SGA at a time. To put in perspective I thing B5 and BSG were 10 times better than SG1. Those I find more intellectual and less cartoony.

I would say SGA is like sour candy. Good in small doses . SG1 is like chocolate. If you aren't careful you'll eat the entire bag. B5 and BSG are like good steaks. You just savor the crap out of them.