Is Nigel Farage wimping out on scary Nick Clegg’s debate challenge?

Who knew Nick Clegg was so scary? As James revealed this morning, the Lib Dem leader has challenged Nigel Farage, never knowingly silent, to a televised leaders’ debate for the European elections. But the Ukip response isn’t quite so enthusiastic. The party’s director of communications Patrick O’Flynn has said that ‘it would be ridiculous if Nick Clegg were to refuse to extend his invitation to David Cameron and Ed Miliband too’ and that ‘we also want to know from David Cameron and Ed Miliband that they are not running scared and will be happy to present their case on the EU to the British public as well. We can see no reason why they would not wish to take part’.

Farage has his own phone-in on LBC tomorrow morning, where he will respond in full. Which gives Clegg the opportunity to call in, if he wishes, and ask the Ukip leader if he’s scared of a debate. If the Ukip leader sticks to his guns and calls for a debate between all four party leaders, it’s because he doesn’t really want a debate to happen – David Cameron would not agree to a debate involving Farage.

Which is odd, because debating a pro-EU politician who doesn’t believe in an In/Out referendum on Britain’s relationship with Europe would be a much easier way for Farage to pitch for the Eurosceptic vote than giving space for Cameron to remind everyone that the Conservatives have promised one and have been trying to legislate for it too. When I chatted to Farage recently, he admitted that this pledge by the PM had weakened Ukip’s appeal to any would-be defectors in Parliament. If he debated Clegg alone, he would risk no such dilution of his message.

Why debate with Clegg? He is a non-entity, a dead man walking. He’s calling for a debate because he knows his party is finished and UKIP have a hand in their demise. Little point debating with a non-entity like Clegg unless you bring in the PM and the leader of the opposition.

Clegg will end up working in Greggs the way he and his party are going.

Cyril Sneer

Down vote away – how hard is it to understand that to have any decent political debate you really need the two largest political entities there (at least) otherwise you’re just wasting your time.

Debating solely with Clegg is like having a TV debate with just the Monster Raving Looney Party – pointless because they’re irrelevant.

David In Rome

This will be the non-entity that increased his popular vote in 2010 by almost the same amount as the entire Ukip vote?

This will be the non-entity that has more than 10 times as many councillors as Ukip?

You are getting your non-entities mixed up. Look at Farage – 3rd in Buckingham, runs away from the by-election in Eastleigh – in case he wins it.

FuglydeQuietzapple

Farage’s bluster should not be mistaken for confidence. The only party leader ever to admit his worst nightmare is winning power.

pretty_polly

Well you have to admit that successive Labour governments have wrecked Britain to a large degree, not least through democratically illegitimate mass immigration.

Obviously it will take decades and many very hard decisions to pull the country back from the brink..

pretty_polly

Cleggie only increased his vote largely because of a lucky tele debate, where, mainly because he was better looking than the other two, he managed to attract a few floating voters.

Of course they very quickly abandoned him when they discovered what he was really all about.

Now if Nigel had been in that debate, the UKIP vote could very easily have been much higher.

No wonder Dave chickened out from debating with Nigel, both then and now.

Dave knows he would be a loser.

David In Rome

Blast, I thought I was safe from you over here. Obviously your desire to chase me around knows no website limits.

“he was better looking”

Are you an aspirant cleggover candidate???

I thought you preferred bad teeth, beer and ciggy-breath.

pretty_polly

Safe?

I am only helping you with your posts in the interests of truth, honesty, and even handed argument without any element of bias.

No, Cleggie is not my type being far too old and wet, but there can be little doubt that he better looking than Dave or Gordon.

As to Nigel, those descriptions may well be true, but he is not my type either. An interesting character though he undoubtedly is.

David In Rome

Thank you for your “help”, it is of course something I have no need of.

pretty_polly

Sadly, in view of your errors, various episodes of self contradiction, and very evident bias, we will have to disagree about that.

Although I am tempted to view such misdemeanours as being less serious for the moment in view of your welcome support against an apparent common enemy.

David In Rome

I almost admire your ability transfer your sins on me.

We both however know the truth of things such as on your assertions about Swiss Immigration and how only 2% of foreigners had been naturalised.

Nevertheless your words on the Ukraine are well placed even if you perhaps miss the point about that other ally of Putin…

The Ukrainians are surely no less meritorious than the Syrians – and for the benefit of some Ukippers – they’re not “darkies” either (with apologies to the late Graham Chapman).

FuglydeQuietzapple

Ukraine has 18 recognised regional languages, and an “ethnic” Russian minority. I doubt they need Ukip’s particular political skills. Pity.

David In Rome

Perhaps they should show repentance by helping to man the barricades, after all most of them were pro-Putin over the Ossetian issue.

pretty_polly

In that case there is a very happy uniformity of opinion between your very goodself and the Ukippers.

After all, you told us recently..

‘I have commented a number of times at my dismay when I go to London and it is clear that I am now the minority’..

and..

‘I have also commented on a few visits to the “Identity and Passport Service” where I was the only W person’.

Apparently the Kippers are just as conscious and just as concerned about such basic and crucial matters as yourself.

When will you be supporting UKIP, perhaps you are an enthusiastic, but secret, UKIP supporter already?

David In Rome

Perhaps you will answer the point made rather than diverting.

Given you were in favour of Syrian immigration, should we not allow Ukrainians in too?

pretty_polly

I have answered a very evident point that you apparently have a great deal in common with UKIP supporters on R matters.
As to Syria, I thought it reasonable to allow in 500 Christian refugees instead of a huge number of E Europeans subject to elector approval.
Of course Ukraine at present is in no way similar to Syria.

David In Rome

“I have answered a very evident point that you apparently have a great deal in common with UKIP supporters on R matters.”

Piffle.

pretty_polly

Oh c’mon.
‘Dismay’!
All those words are pure Kip, if not – - –

pretty_polly

Oh yes, Swiss immigration.

Of course you were wrong in your statement..

‘Up until this year (2013) ALL the (Swiss) referendums on immigration were rejected by the people’

Of course your comparison between British and Swiss immigration collapsed completely when you suddenly told us..

‘But you well know that the Swiss have approved of immigration since the year dot and have voted in such a manner’

Not that your comparison was valid anyway, because for it to be otherwise, Britain would have to be landlocked in central Europe just like Switzerland.

Perhaps your research revealed that Switzerland was an island like Britain off the NW coast of France which is the other possibility?

As to your accusation against me, that is completely invalid because your statistics were misleading, as stated by a well known independent authority.

When will you get things right I wonder, first time, every time?

David In Rome

More boring misrepresentation.

More ignoring your errors, particularly on the number of naturalisations in Switzerland.

Oh dear.

Still it matters not, no matter how many people you may fool here, YOU know you who was really found wanting.

pretty_polly

Yes, the person who was really found wanting was your very goodself.

You were completely wrong in your statement..

‘Up until this year (2013) ALL the (Swiss) referendums on immigration were rejected by the people’.

Your emphasis on ALL being particularly funny

You also destroyed your own comparison between Swiss and British immigration which was invalid anyway.

Not least because your research must have revealed that Britain was landlocked in central Europe just like Switzerland with all other characteristics equally identical..

As to naturalisations, all those figures fell within your ‘misleading statistics’ as criticised by a very well respected independent observer.

So clearly your presentations on the subject were both wrong and invalid.

Cyril Sneer

You talk about the past as if it is the future. There is no future for the Lib Dems – they’ll cease to be of any relevance after the next GE.
Your fooling yourself David, which isn’t difficult I’m sure.

David In Rome

Well I suppose Eastleigh was technically in the past it’s true, however Farage’s runner back to Brussels was clear and quite recent.

The truth remains though that out of about 20,000 councillors, Ukip have around 200.

Your opinion about the LibDems is an interesting one if, I believe misguided. Don’t underestimate the ability of their activists to retain their seats (as they did in Eastleigh too).
.

As for fooling myself, did I do so before the 2010 election when I predicted Eukip would get NO seats?

This was despite the howls of rage from the fruitcakes about how they were going to hold the balance of power in a hung parliament..!

No, I’ve seen too many predictions of electoral glory for Ukip and disaster for the other parties to do anything but laugh at you lot and your ability to delude yourselves.

Valerie Arnold

Nigel did not “run away from Eastleigh” in case he lost it, he did not stand because it would have meant he would have to give up being and MEP and that is where we need him. Nigel does not “run away” from anything.

Two Bob

There’s a basic law in politics: no one with the upper hand calls for a debate.

Nick Clegg might now be one of the most unpopular politicians since records began – he has a disapproval rating of minus 53 per cent – but that wasn’t always so. Remember Cleggmania?

Eurofanatics such as Nick Clegg like to give the impression that they are the voice of sweet reason and their opponents are all either extremists or mad.

A debate between a true believer in a United States of Europe and the leading advocate of withdrawal would be enlightening.

Make no mistake about Nigel Farage’s ability to do that to Nick Clegg. The other parties like to portray him as a beerswilling pub bore but he’s as shrewd as they come. I’ve seen him in front of an audience of 400 and believe me there’s no other political figure today who comes close to his ability to persuade.

telemachus

Quite
A sign of Clegg’s desperation

starfish

Given that the coalition and labour position on the EU is fundamentally the same why should Farage have to debate Clegg alone and not Milliband and Cameron too?

Tom

UKIP Director of Communications Patrick O’Flynn said: “A televised leaders’ debate for the European elections is a very interesting idea.

“But it would be ridiculous if Nick Clegg were to refuse to extend his invitation to David Cameron and Ed Miliband too.

“So we want to know from Mr Clegg that Mr Cameron and Mr Miliband are invited as well and that he has in mind a comprehensive and live leaders’ debate on a major broadcast outlet.

“We would also like to hear from Mr Clegg that he is ready to resume his support for an In/Out EU referendum, which he supported before the 2010 general election, but abandoned soon after.

“Naturally we also want to know from David Cameron and Ed Miliband that they are not running scared and will be happy to present their case on the EU to the British public as well. We can see no reason why they would not wish to take part.

“So we need some clarity from each of the other three party leaders and hope that the media will apply pressure for such clarity in the hours ahead. In any event Nigel Farage will set out his views on this subject fully tomorrow on LBC at 9am.”

Clegg and his party are in meltdown and this is the action of a desperate man.
I say thanks but no thanks why should Farage throw the drowning Clegg a lifeline.

Hexhamgeezer

What on earth gives that little euro-squirt the idea that Farage would deign to give him exclusive airtime as opposed to a more efficient evisceration of the liblabcon triumvirs in a single show?

David In Rome

The Eurosquirt is Farage
- 15 years at the Eurotrough so far.
- Runs away from Westminster By-elections he might win.

R Fairless

To Isabel Hardman.
What a strange and distorted view you have of both Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg.
One is an advocate of English freedom and independence and the other, the opposite.

saffrin

Let’s face it, who could take clegg seriously? The man is a joke all on his own. He only needs turn up somewhere to make people laugh.

R Fairless

Nigel Farage should not lower his dignity by giving Clegg undeserved publicity. Clegg’s invitation is an insult. How dare he put himself in the same class as Nigel Farage!
Clegg wants an opportunity to voice his propaganda and ingratiate himself into EU favour. The reason? He knows he is going to be out of a job shortly but he wants another job on the gravy train. He knows also that Nigel Farage’s worldwide popularity as a speaker would guarantee him also a wide audience.
Let Clegg go debate with, say, Milliband and leave all English patriots out of it. UKIP does not need to have any connection with Clegg’s notoriety, let him stick with his Lib/Dem weirdos.

saffrin

Nigel Farage, scared of Clegg, don’t make me laugh.

David In Rome

If he had any sense he should be.

saffrin

The only people who need fear Clegg are the people of Sheffield.

Northerner1001

I suspect Farage will accept the challenge, he has too as he’s been going on about TV debates for ages, If he bottles out of facing Clegg it’s not going to do much for his political cred. I’m no LibDem but people saying Farage will wipe the floor with Clegg should be careful, Clegg has obviously planned this & he’s worked at Brussels so will know his stuff. With the LibDems bombing in the polls the LD’s have nothing to lose anyway but Farage & UKIP do. I actually think the main losers would be Miliband & especially Cameron if they don’t take part…If it’s just Clegg v Farage I can’t see it pulling in much of an audience anyway

Valerie Arnold

Nigel did have to accept Cleggs challenge , he did hope to have the other two there as well, but they are to “busy”. I think Clegg hoped Nigel would refuse because he really wanted all three and that would have made Clegg look good, backfired big time, he knows he is no match for Nigel, the only thing in his favour is that it will be BBC and Dimbleby, no doubt a hand picked audience as well, with rentamob in full attendance , the LBC programme will be much fairer.

Lady Magdalene

The Clegglet is going to be creamed in the EU Parliament elections.
Why should Farage give Clegg the opportunity to publicise his campaign on the back of UKIP’s far more popular one.

global city

Please Isabel, do not fall into the trap all the other useful idiot journalists in the MSM have?

UKIP are raising vitally important issues, so when you try to mock them you are diminishing the issues too.

andagain

What issue? Not the EU – you can’t raise that as an issue because people never shut up about it in the first place…

Two Bob

And why would that be?

andagain

The Conservative Party. They haven’t been able to talk about anything else for ten minutes since long before anyone heard of UKIP.

global city

I was on about jumping onto the soft bandwagon of hinting that UKIP are somehow ‘unsound’. This latest one is introducing the idea that Farage is a fraud and aware that Clegg would wipe the floor with him…. the EU’s good, there is no real objection to the EU…..etc.

Wahrheit

Farage invited Milliband and Cameron to the debate because he expects them to refuse, allowing him to paint Cameron as scared of the very issue he wants a referendum on, Milliband on the otherhand hasnt really shown his colours on the issue at all so he can be put under scrutiny on the topic. Makes perfect sense.
If all Farage gets is Clegg, he gets to make the anti-EU case, if he gets Cameron he gets to expose how meaningless his referendum offer is and Milliband, well, nobody knows what Milliband stands for, he doesnt have policies as such. It is a win whichever way it goes for Farage, he is just playing for a better hand if he can get it.

Two Bob

Clegg is in government so he is as good as Cameron in terms of Farage attracting floating anti coalition voters who might have been tempted to go for Labour. It will be just what UKIP needs for that final push for first place in May.

HookesLaw

Clegg is as rabidly Europhile as Farage is Europhobe. Miliband is almost as bad.
Cameron is a realist.

Conway

Cameron is a chameleon. He tries to be all things to all men. I doubt he has anything he truly believes in, other than that he deserves the top job.

Mike

Why should Farage enter a debate with a third rate irrelevance without the two main leaders present. I wouldn’t give that LibDumb the time of day if I was Farage and it doesn’t look like he will.

Two Bob

Because it will give him a platform. He has his own Van Rumpypumpy to debate with on British media!

That should push UKIP into first place come May.

I think he should go for it, because media exposure is the name of the game.

Clegg knows absolutely nothing about the art of politics and the mood of the country.

Clegg is just about the most discredited and disliked politician in the UK, and Farage can capitalise on this big time. Farage can muscled in on tuition fees, and just about everything that Clegg has been involved with since 2010.

Oxygen!

Mike

You could be right and I hope you’re right as Clegg is a worthless piece of Eurotrash and the main party leaders aren’t much better in supporting the UK.

They are running this same sort of message in the D Mail (wonder why?) and asking if the UKIP leader is running scared. Seems as though they are misreading/misrepresenting the situation, as indeed Ms Hardman seems to be.

Your headline is surely premature A wiser counsel would be to
wait to see what Farage says tomorrow.

Self evidently Farage does not have to “pitch for the Eurosceptic vote” in the EU elections, he already has it, masses of it and that vote is certainly not going to be swayed by anything Clegg can say. Like Cameron, Clegg is just not believed any more.

My small testing of views makes me conclude even those who might vote other than UKIP in a General Election are thinking of supporting UKIP in the EU elections, on the basis of nothing to lose and stirring the pot.

Clegg is desperate, absolutely desperate, he risks being wiped out in the EU elections.

Farage can play him like a fish

James Allen

Precisely, but surely that’s not lost on Farage. He knows what utter sh*t Clegg is in….. even if Isabel and the ‘village’ occasionally forget… The idea they can repeat Eastleigh right across the country in a GE!!! Preposterous!!

Mike

Spot on, Clegg like all of the LibDumbs are an irrelevance and no one takes them seriously other than a few wet liberals.

Cleggs policies and political positions change faster than a hookers draws in Kings Cross during a busy period and are not to be believed.

James Allen

The real story here is the imminent catastrophe about to befall the Lib Dems, hence Clegg’s offer (request? plea?). But Farage is not stupid and may not see the benefit in risking a debate for minimal potential gain. UKIP are winning the argument… why should they stoop to placate the Lib Dems?? Don’t make no sense…

James Allen

That being said, I hope he does debate Clegg, and indeed I expect him to agree to do so in the fullness of time….

James Allen

And there it is. Well done, Nige. Bravo!!

Denis_Cooper

I shouldn’t think so; I remember a public debate between Farage and Huhne and guess who wiped the floor with whom?

colliemum

Nothing like a bit of selective reporting! Here’s the UKIP answer, on Iain Dale’s blog*):

“UPDATE: Response from UKIP… A UKIP spokesman said:

“Mr Farage would like to thank Mr Clegg for his kind invitation to a debate on the great issue of Britain’s membership of the European Union. Perhaps he could also let us know whether he has invited David Cameron and Ed Miliband too in order that the British people can see all their main political leaders argue their positions. If this challenge means that Mr Clegg is going to restore his backing for an In/Out referendum, which he gave before the last election but then withdrew afterwards, then it could be a significant moment in British politics. Mr Farage will give a full response to this development on LBCtomorrow morning.”

But why doesn’t he have a head-to-head debate, why does he have to hide behind a radio station, does he think Nick Cleggs Scawy :s

colliemum

Clegg proposed this debate on LBC Radio – so Farage answers him (debate yes or no) on that selfsame medium.
Neither is debating the other as of yet.

Northerner1001

The debate will be live on TV, several stations have already expressed an interest

colliemum

I bet they have – viewer counts will be astronomical!

Smithersjones2013

Whats the point of having a debate with Clegg when

a) Clegg is not an MEP so is not directly involved in the Euro Elections and is not directly involved in the business of the EU

b) Clegg is refusing to have a referendum.and as such any debate of that would be futile given the enormous changes in the EU that are taking place as a result of the financial crisis.

Whats the point? Whilst its obvious Clegg has nothing of import to do but wait for the inevitable slaughter of his party this year and next, the rest of the political world does have important things to do. Basically Clegg should stop annoying everybody with his pointless wheezes and go back to being the spare member……

serialluncher

I didn’t think Ukip saw any difference between the parties given they frequently use the BNP’s “liblabcon” term. So why are they fussy about who turns up to the debate?

telemachus

Interesting
I did not know that the BNP originated the liblabcon term
Used by a cadre of BNP fellow travellers here

saffrin

If your ignorance and prejudice betray you. If you allowed yourself to view the BNP’s policies, you would recognise them as traditional Labour policies.

telemachus

Andrew Neather would disagree

saffrin

Then Andrew Neather knows as little as you regards to Labour’s history.
Labour’s traditional voters however have long memories.
Today’s Labour party have betrayed Labour’s traditional voters, betrayed Labour’s founding fathers and the only reason many still vote Labour is because they still see them as the best chance of keeping the Tories out.
Labour are more of a danger to Britain’s working class than Thatcher ever was.
The myth UKIP only take votes from the Tories is just that, a myth.

FuglydeQuietzapple

Fantasy.

saffrin

So who was it that nationalised the rail network, the utilities, the transport industry, the hospitals etc?

FuglydeQuietzapple

Fascisti of a blether, abuse together.

Tom

Because while they are all pro EU only Clegg is admitting it.

FuglydeQuietzapple

True Clegg called for a straight In/Out Referendum when the Lisbon Constitutional Treaty was being discussed, he had to adopt a different position to the two main parties. At that time Ukip didn’t want a referendum, they wanted a General Election and a mandate to leave the EU. At the General Election they got no seats whatsoever, but did not regard that as a mandate to do owt but screech. Perhaps the policy about taxi drivers’ uniforms in the dress circle of theatres put people off.

OriginalChris

In reply to your question, Isabel, far from it. See the ukip website, where quite rightly they are calling for Nick Clegg to extend the invitation to Cameron and Miliband, and to have the debate on a major broadcast outlet. What an opportunity for UKIP, and how Cameron must be rather concerned!

So if Farage agrees but makes it conditional on all parties, that’s UKIP + Lib Dems. What if Miliband decided to take the risk and pitch in too… to make Cameron look the coward? We could very quickly see a 4-way debate. That would be good to see….

OriginalChris

I think the inevitable consequence would be the 4 way debate that Farage has always wanted. Indeed, a very good thing. What Clegg thought was a clever move has, in fact, backfired, I believe. UKIP needs this platform, and will have gained it via an unexpected route.

James Allen

But Cameron and Miliband will get off scot-free, unless Ed’s feeling brave.

WatTylersGhost

4 way debate, how? There are only 2 sides to this argument, UKIP wants out, all the others want in.

Conway

Cameron has to try to pretend he wants a referendum so he’s stuck on the “please believe me I want out” side. Labour and LibDems both want in.

Pip

I don’t think the author of this piece of clap trap should be writing in the MSM, anyone can make such claims, but only a fool would listen.

the viceroy’s gin

Well, you must forgive the young lass. She has to do what her bubble establishment paymasters tell her to do, transparent though it might be.

ButcombeMan

Do you think someone really tells her to write kite flying headlines like that?

She is just not very good on political analysis.

The subject could have had a much weightier covering. An opportunity missed

the viceroy’s gin

Yes, this is all directed from within the bubble, and the young lass is just doing her part. Politics are nothing but reality television to these Speccie kids, so it suits their sensibilities to immediately jam such claptrap into the program’s script, tauntingly.

A proper media coverage would involve deliberation and sober analysis, but that’s not for these children. They deal only with 140 characters, blasted out as fast as their little fingers can peck a keypad. And that suits their paymasters of course, who profit from the LibLabCon clones and are terrified of UKIP, and seek to deprive them of oxygen.

Q46

Perhaps Nigel Farage understands it is best to fight your enemy at a place and time of your choosing not theirs.

Clegg has a purpose for his invitation and you can bet it is not to serve the interests of either the public or UKIP.

the viceroy’s gin

Clegg has likely talked it over with his fellow EUSSR apparatchiks, and they agreed on a strategy. They all know he’s finished, as does he, so he’s obligated to follow their direction if he wants to pick up his EUSSR sinecure, after he’s disappeared in 2015.

slyblade

Clegg’s just doing Camerons dirty work for him. The man has no Cojones

WatTylersGhost

Perhaps Cleggy would offer me a televised debate. But why would he, I might wish to stand on his taller shoulders, it might benefit me, but it would do him no good at all.
Clegg simply wishes to have a little light shed on him as he stands beside Farage, a much more significant and recognisable politician.

Kitty MLB

Nigel Farage is absolutely correct, this issue is of paramount of importance,
and all party leaders including Cameron, Miliband , and( I would say even Wee
Alex)
After all they are the main political parties in our country.Its not the time for
Cleggie to say I can puff my chest out bigger then yours.
Nigel Farage should be the bigger man, he has gravitas and stamina,
and tell the childish Cleggie that he will debate with those who have more substance
and who will debate seriously.

rtj1211

I don’t think your comments at this site make you a very good judge of childishness and substance, myself.

Whether you agree or not with Clegg he is assuredly not childish. He may be hypocritical, he may not hold the same politics as you and he may lead a party you really can’t stand. But he’s not childish.

You on the other hand are shrill, egotistical and insulting.

Three traits of children who can’t have their own way………

Colonel Mustard

“You on the other hand are shrill, egotistical and insulting.”

Too funny, coming from you, Mr Judgemental.

Nicholas chuzzlewit

A nice piece of rank hypocrisy. Your insult in the penultimate line is redolent with childish petulance.

Cyril Sneer

Pot.
Kettle.
Black.

telemachus

The issue is not of paramount importance
No vote on any referendum issue is binding on Parliament
Even if the Tory eurosceptics and Farage got their way and further the vote were to quit which is far from certain no UK government would be crazy enough to sign our economic death warrant and actually pull out

Kitty MLB

I just think its the case of someone bursting the boil ( sorry that’s disgusting)
The issue is just festering away, and on any blog site a
article on the EU manages to get the largest amount of posts.
It did so the other day at Con Home, there was a couple of articles
in regards to education, and the benefits system that were
very well written and totally ignored.
Telemachus, we just need to have that conversation, and
both sides must be heard, I know my view, I want to leave the EU,
but I will listen to those who think otherwise, assuming they can tell
the reason why we should stay without saying the words ‘Little England’.

Colonel Mustard

Don’t encourage him. Moronic telemachus is here only to stalk, spam, harass and provoke on behalf of the Labour party. He is an archetypal troll. Best to ignore him completely. Far more annoying to the nasty little spud.

Kitty MLB

The lefties who invade Con Home are really
quite bonkers, we have little signs which say Do Not Feed The
Trolls! the little dears get very upset when ignored, you see.

telemachus

The boil that will burst is Farage
Time is not on his side
As months go by more and more folks realise he is nothing more than a diluted BNP
And want none of it

Two Bob

At least his party do not cuddle up to pedophiles. Unlike certain members of the Labour party.

Ron Todd

Not getting much coverage on the BBC that one.

telemachus

Substantiate that slur

Two Bob

Its true. Harriet Harman and husband Jack Dromey. They were leading officials in the NCCL, which was linked to predatory pedophile group ‘Paedophile Information Exchange.’

A senior source on the investigation says there is evidence PIE members were abusing children ‘on an industrial scale’.

The Home Office is also probing shocking claims that the Labour government of the 1970s may have helped finance the pedophile group.

Alexsandr

this needs to be properly investigated and prosecutions brought if necessary.

telemachus

But not trumpeted unnecessarily on a political blog

Alexsandr

you idiot. If it were tories involved in something dodgy like this labour would be all over it. And you know it.

telemachus

Typical Mail lies is all

ButcombeMan

if what you say is correct I look forward to the two of them taking action against the Mail and receiving substantial damages for the ugly smears.

Cyril Sneer

So you deny it without any investigation, like a true lefty you are.

Do you like kids?

Cyril Sneer

Oh you could imagine if UKIP were involved in something similiar, you’d never hear the end of it.

Lefties don’t like it up them, they don’t like their own tactics used against them – I make a point of trolling and abusing lefties almost daily if possible – it’s a sport, such is my contempt for the left wing.

telemachus

Come on
This is libel

Alexsandr

what part?

telemachus

That the Dromey’s had anything to do with PIE
A tenuous organisational connection dredged up by the Mail, a notorious peddler of right wing smears, does not constitute a story

gerontius

Come off it telemachus.

Quote from Kim Beazley Sr:
“When I joined the Labor Party, it contained the cream of the working class. But as I look about me now all
I see are the dregs of the middle class. And what I want to know is when you middle class perverts are going to stop using the Labor Party as a spiritual spitoon.”

Different country, same problem: A party founded to protect the interest of the working class hijacked by middle class trash.

Andy

Not a ‘slur’: it is a fact.

Nicholas chuzzlewit

Tagged tripe as usual on behalf of Labour the party of lies, lying and liars.

telemachus

Which bit of my post are you able to refute

Nicholas chuzzlewit

Firstly, membership of the EU and debate surrounding it is of paramount importance. The EU is an anti-democratic institution ( much loved by Fascist Labour). Second, a referendum which delivered a vote for exit from the EU would be ignored by Parliament at its peril. Not all parties take the same attitude to public opinion and public will as the Fascist Labour Party. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest leaving the EU would be economically ruinous. Business is not against leaving the EU it simply dislikes uncertainty. Once we had left the EU our businesses would continue to thrive as long as they produce high quality goods and services at a competitive price. So as I said, tagged tripe on behalf of the Fascist Labour Party.

telemachus

Sentiment is sentiment
Salmond’s referendum was all about sentiment but when harsh economic realities are pointed out the dream crumbles
So with Europe
I doubt an out vote would result but if it did and the government then looked at the mechanisms and consequences of withdrawal they would not countenance the risk of poverty inherent in the concept

Nicholas chuzzlewit

As anticipated, verbose tripe without a shred of verisimilitude.

telemachus

Convince me that a responsible government would risk the potential economic chaos

Daidragon

Labour were fighting fascism when the right wing were wooing it. No lectures are required from swivel eyed loons or right wing fools who supported the party that signed the Maastricht Treaty. Heath opened the door to the EU, Thatcher walked through it and Major slammed it behind leaving us in the EU. Treacherous capitalists. Farage is right to avoid debate though as he would undoubtedly be exposed for the clown he actually is.

Nicholas chuzzlewit

I think you are sufficiently employed keeping your own eyes from swivelling. Second, the Labour party today is anti-democratic, authoritarian and anti free speech. It is a Fascist party .I and I suspect many others, have had enough of its illegal wars, refusal to let us have a say in whether or not we want to remain part of its kindred anti-democratic dictatorship the EU, sick to death of its attempts to control what we eat, what we say and what we think. It is a Fascist party and I will not be lectured by a leftist idiot like you.

Daidragon

I think your understanding of the term fascist is even poorer than your memory of the history of Britain’s entry into the EU.

Nicholas chuzzlewit

Fascism is an extreme, authoritarian political doctrine it is not the exclusive preserve of the political right. Hitler was a sel-proclaimed socialist and Mussolini was originally a communist. Labour is authoritarian and constantly seeks to criminalise the activities of British citizens. Thanks to Labour, Britains can now be prosecuted for whatever it chooses to define as ‘hate crimes’, supposed religious intolerance et. Its blanket and immediate endorsement of the Leveson enquiry demonstrates its loathing of freedom of speech. Every quango is stuffed with its ‘Placepeople’ peddling the approved leftist agenda. Its refusal to countenance boundary changes reinforces its loathing of democracy. Labour is a Fascist party.

Ron Todd

National socialism or international socialism it will always end badly.

Ron Todd

Labour was fighting facism in support of their mate Stalin.

gerontius

“Labour were fighting fascism when the right wing were wooing it.”
That was the old Labour Party Daidragon. It no longer exists.

Cyril Sneer

Labour supporters seem to live in a different era. They still think the tories are right wing, and that Labour are still the party of the working class. They are about 20 years out of date.

saffrin

All of it, in every post.
Your post are 100% bolix.

telemachus

I care
My party cares
The posts are ultimate reasonableness

saffrin

They are all lies and denials.
Labour wrecked this country.

telemachus

Gordon saved first the World’s banks and then our economy from the effects of the US subprime

saffrin

Gordon Brown threw all the money down the drain on Foreign Aid, forced the people of this country into the unmanageable debt when his open door mass immigration policy would have otherwise left them homeless.
Labour did nothing for this country during its thirteen year tenure but inspire racial and religious hatred where there was none before.
Labour put millions out of work, they wrecked the country’s economy and ability to compete and the only reason Labour come anywhere in the polls is because those that vote Labour do so in order to keep the Tories out.

telemachus

Sorry
Gordon’s massive investment in Health and Education prevented the collapse of both services
It is fashionable to do Gordon down but look at the facts

saffrin

You really do live in your own little fantasy World.
If Gormless was so great, how come he lost the 2010 general election. Why did he resign if it wasn’t for the fact he knew the electorate saw him as a complete idiot.
And before you even try to blame it on the financial crisis, Idiot Brown knew he was a failure in 2007 when he bottled out from holding an election.

Colonel Mustard

See above. Ignore him.

Nicholas chuzzlewit

Which idiot are you referring to? Tele idiot or rjt etc idiot. Best to ignore both I suspect but I cannot resist the urge to refute dissembling Labour fascist nonsense.

telemachus

Chuz
In all authoritarian societies and organisations there are those who wish to silence the contras
See for example the trial of the 3 journalists in Egypt today
Here it is a sign of weak argument and poverty of character

Nicholas chuzzlewit

I dont have to look at Egypt I when I can see Fascist Labour in my own country. Bursting with desire to restrict the freedom of the press and freedom of speech, ever eager to control what we eat, drink, say, think and do. Poised to wreck the country’s finances in order to gerrymander its own client state and keep those people poor, compliant and voting for them or, preferably, postal voting for them. Ever eager to preserve the twin pillars of its authority failure and mediocrity and use them to create a drab barren landscape where ambition, success and aspiration are crushed. That is the Fascist Labour Party.

Colonel Mustard

telemachusallvomit. And the nasty little spud doesn’t appear to understand the difference between advice to ignore him and a wish to silence him. The Spectator ought to do the latter as he makes this site a joke but I suspect, knowing who he is, they are intimidated by him.

Let him post his tripe but don’t respond to it. That is exactly what he wants. As soon as he tags a top post start down arrowing it, regardless of its merit.

Alexsandr

mebbe tellytubby us nelson acting as agent provacateur?

Kitty MLB

‘ agent provacateur’
That almost makes Telemachus sound like a mysterious
member of the iluminati, wandering the clandestine
shadowy corridors of power, intriguing.

Kitty MLB

Regardless of knowing that we must leave the EU,
we also must have a debate and listen to both sides, yet Labour and others,
do not want that, they do not want us to ever have our say.
Which suggests this referendum, which I believe was just a fig leaf to see off UKIP will not be fair with the leftie dominated
media etc in this country.

telemachus

See above
The referendum is a monumental irrelevance
Our MP’s Re charged with looking after our interests and would never let us withdraw

saffrin

That’s why we’ll be changing our MP’s come May 2015.
You LibLabCon artists have made it perfectly clear you’re not prepared to represent Great Britain, so why you lot bother to stand for Parliament I do not know.

telemachus

Please divorce Lab (who care about you and your country)
from LibCon who have been doing you down for the last 3 and a half years

Nicholas chuzzlewit

Agreed.

HookesLaw

Cameron wants to renegotiate terms and have a referendum.
Miliband and Clegg do not. So you are wrong to lump Cameron in with the ‘others’.

Conway

Cameron should know (if he’s been listening to the likes of Barroso et al) that he has zero chance of negotiating anything. He is on record (El Pais) as saying he would not like to take the UK out of the EU if the result were for out. The only way in which Cameron is not with “the others” is that he is putting on a show of pretending to be different.

Kitty MLB

Well, although I did not hear it myself, my husband
who is unfortunately a devoted Cameroon was
saying that an EU spokesperson was on TV that these renegotiations were impossible for various reasons,
and that Cameron needs to make decide about the referendum, whatever that means.
Merkel apparently even helping Cameron with the IN campaign.
As Conway has already said, Cameron is putting on a show,
if all is above board in regards to the referendum, why is it not earlier then 2017 but I give him some due at least
we have a date. Yet that is dependant on him winning the
next election.Its almost blackmail.

Two Bob

What do you have to say about that Labour/pedo scandal?

telemachus

Libel

chudsmania

Economic death warrant ? I take you not seen the ghastly Eurozone economic figures lately ? If this is success , we should have no part with it , but simply trade with them as we have for many centuries , whilst free to conduct trade deals with whom we wish. This is economic vision , and we should grasp this, for the prosperity of the UK.

telemachus

The catastrophic consequences to ourselves, the Eurozone and the USA will trigger a world recession

chudsmania

You really need to see a shrink. You’re really bonkers. You’re doing your side no favours at all. Just making yourself look silly.

Cyril Sneer

There will be a world recession anyway.

The economy will go pop at some point, then see how the ‘spend someone else’s money’ labourites get on when there is no money for benefits.

Income, education and welfare – all pants in Labour safe seats. Which makes a mockery of the moronic telemachus’ boasting and hubris.

If nasty little Labour spuds like him spent less time trying to control the discourse here and more on actually caring for those they pretend to care for Britain would be a much better place. But their narrative is essentially dishonest. They are the Labour party – the party of lies, lying and liars.

Kitty MLB

A very good example of what a failure they
are and why they cannot be trusted with a few seats tell alone
a entire country.
They are so dishonest that they will not admit to the smallest
amount of responsibility for their country wrecking rampage.
Deceit and division.

Nicholas chuzzlewit

Hear, hear!

sfin

“If the Ukip leader sticks to his guns and calls for a debate between all four party leaders, it’s because he doesn’t really want a debate to happen…”

This is nonsense! Nigel Farage is well used to organised, televised debates on this one topic – and he has a 100% record of victory when the question of the debate is put to the audience vote. He is relishing the prospect of another one.

What UKIP are (cleverly) doing is trying to get all of the mainstream parties to play their cards and to highlight the fact that all three social democratic parties are holding the same hand.

the viceroy’s gin

Well said.

Kitty MLB

Indeed I said the same thing myself but not as eloquently as your self.
The debate must include the 3 main party leaders, Farage is
not afraid of Little boy Cleggie, he just wishes to show the subject
more respect.
For Cleggie its only about trying to look the big man,and he hopes to show Farage up and for Farage its actually about the very important issue itself.

telemachus

You are totally right about Clegg
He knows if Farage accepts it gives him credence
If he refuses Clegg gets oodles of publicity

James Allen

Funny isn’t it, that all the party leaders refuse a debate, week-in, week-out, and it’s considered normal, but as soon as Farage even hints he might refuse he’s considered a ‘coward’. Talk about double-standards….

telemachus

As I said mattereth not
The thrust of today was all about publicity for Nick

Kitty MLB

Cleggie likes centre stage.
I always remember after the last election,
that Frank Field mentioned that one of the younger
Labour MP’s told him that Cleggie was just playing one party
off against the other, and not quite telling the truth-
he has serious issues with that word.

James Allen

Yes, but the media is the 5th player. If Farage refuses to accept the invitation, you can bet it will be all over the Mail, BBC, Guardian etc (already is). But if he accepts and wins the debate, it will barely make a headline. BIG danger for Farage in this…. I hope he’s receiving sober advice.

sfin

Agreed. But the LibDems current standing in the polls, after their record in office, also puts them in the ‘not big enough to debate with exclusively’ category. As things stand, it’s a lose/ lose situation for UKIP – debate at the same level as a minnow party, or be accused of running scared. It’s essential to UKIPs election strategy that they highlight the lack of difference between the main parties on this crucial issue.
As you, rightly, say – it’s a conundrum for UKIP and they have to get the other two social democrat parties involved.

James Allen

Yeh, but basically scotching the idea immediately would make the issue go away PDQ. Or maybe Nige fancies a bit of fisticuffs? Who knows….

sfin

Good point, and possible solution to the conundrum.

Kitty MLB

Well maybe it was actually meant as a trap,
I would not be surprised in the slightest,
you are right though, I do hope
that he gets sober advice, and that my party leader ( I nearly bit my tongue saying that) as well as Ethelred Miliband will also be present,
as others here have also said.

Cyril Sneer

“he fact that all three social democratic parties are holding the same hand.”

Indeed, much like QT when Farage repeatedly asked representatives of the Lab and Con party where they stood with immigration, what their policies are. Farage was quite clear on what he wanted to do, but you couldn’t get a straight answer out Lab or Con. Hence why Dave and co don’t want to get into a debate – they know there is no separating liblabcon, and the only thing a tv debate would show is the liblabcon are the same and that UKIP are the only party to offer something else – something most of us want.

Smithersjones2013

Why would anyone waste their time on loser Clegg?

monty61

Indeed. Clutching at straws again.

Pip

In just one term in power, in fact only 4 years, Clegg and that fool Cable have utterly destroyed the LibDems for generations to come, quite an achievement, maybe they both deserve a peerage for such hard work and selfless dedication to duty in freeing the British People from the clutches of yet another Party of self serving, duplicitous, venal, inept Warmists and EU Luvies.

Rbennett

You are showing your ignorance to how politics work. Lib Dem MPs have the highest approval rating of any MPs and wont to voted out. Even the worst estimates for 2015 give the Lib Dems 25 MPs, 25 more than UKIP. Even with the Lib Dems usual protest vote UKIP can’t win a By-election.
Just because you dislike the party doesn’t mean that they are self serving. If they were self serving they wouldnt have entered the coalition in the first place. UKIP MEPs are the most self serving politicians in Europe, they take their bloated pay cheques but never actually turn up to work. If I turned up to work 53 per cent of the time ,like Paul Nuttall, I’d be fired. The biggest waste of money in the whole EU budget is UKIP MEPs pay cheques.
The reason Nigel and UKIP are running scared is because their economics on the EU don’t add up, most economists agree with Clegg because Clegg’s economics doe add up.
UKIP are an unpatriotic party because they are putting 3 million jobs at risk and want to destroy any say the UK has on the world stage. And because of the Rise of UKIP Scottish Independence is more likely to happen, because the Scots hate right wing parties and having two prominent ones in England adds fuel to the fire of independence. UKIP are ensuring Great Britain becomes Little England.

telemachus

You are wrong
General elections are all about mood and national sentiment
Liberals score at rock bottom on those

MirthaTidville

Think you lost your deposit at the Wythenshawe by election and I think you might have 2 MEP`s left in Europe after the May elections….but thats because the Dum Lubs are so admired eh

ButcombeMan

3 million jobs is a figure that cannot be substantiated. Clegg keep repeating it does not make it true. He is being even more ridiculous than usual. He really is desperate now.

Trade with the EU would still carry on if we left, they need our big and relatively wealthy market and WTO rules apply anyway.

the viceroy’s gin

Clegg is finished longterm, yes, but he’s still quite useful to UKIP for now, as he’s a millstone to be hung around the LibLabCon neck. That’s best done personally.

ADW

The outcome of Farage v Clegg would be either:

1. Farage wins, in which case he gains much and Clegg loses equally

2. It’s unclear, in which case both lose

3. Farage loses, in which case UKIP will need a new leader.

But if Farage bottles it, he’s lost anyway.

AnotherDave

He won’t refuse. Today the evening news will be: “Mr Clegg challenges Mr Farage to a debate, Mr Farage will give his answer tomorrow on LBC.”

The delay just gives UKIP an opportunity to think how to get maximum benefit from the debate, and it increase the attention given to Mr Farage’s radio programme tomorrow.

Wessex Man

we can only hope, I do hope my party leader doesn’t back out now he’s got the chance to debate with at least one of them!

the viceroy’s gin

Farage needs to use this to exercise maximum leverage on the Millipede and Call Me Dave. We’d assume UKIP has gamed out some of this, and all of the various ways LibLabCon will maneuver to isolate them, and countermeasures for each. Right now, he needs to heap scorn on the other 2 of the 3-cheeked backside. He can submit to this debate any time, no rush. Right now, he needs to make sure that the Millipedes and Cameroons are full participants, even if they’re not physically present. That should be his goal. Those 2 are too stupid to understand it, but they’ll be damaged worse in their absence.

AnotherDave

I think this challenge from Mr Clegg came out of the blue.

It may be that UKIP are wondering how to fit this debate into their EU Parliament election campaign, which I’d guess is thoroughly mapped out.

James Allen

“Thoroughly mapped out”…. hopefully not in the Dog and Bone at 2am over a keg of Doombar….

the viceroy’s gin

I think you could be right, and Clegg dreamed this up by himself. That would make sense, as he’s in most desperate shape.

But Farage can’t let that change his strategy, of dealing with the LibLabCon clones as a single entity. He should use (any) one of them to attack all of them.

Cyril Sneer

Out of the blue? No.
It’s called getting trounced in by-elections and knowing that you will go from a power sharing party to the 4th largest party and a non-entity in the space of one year.

Pip

Farage has never ‘bottled’ anything, he is the most courageous and selfless Political Leader and Champion of real Democracy this country has known in many a decade, and lets not forget it is he who has been calling for a Leader debate for a long time now, Clegg alone does not constitute such a debate.

OriginalChris

Well said, Pip.

Cyril Sneer

‘bottles it’

Why spend the time debating with a dead party and a soon to be unemployed Clegg? Little point unless Dave and the Millipeed join in.

I note that little was said when Dave refused to be drawn into a debate with Farage, and yet it’s different rules for UKIP. Same old media BS of lies and mud slinging, and not an ounce of proper journalism to be found.

MirthaTidville

I think Farage is far too astute to fall for this trick, which is all about giving Cleggy the oxygen of publicity. His standing within his party is probably lower than the Libs, as a whole, are likely to poll in the Euro elections. He desperately needs a grandstand to try to rally his dwindling supporters. Dont fall for it Nige, look where it got us at the last election

global city

The Europhile issues are few and mainly based on lies. I hope this goes ahead as it would be a chance to blow the basic ones completely out of the equation. This is vital in the long term, as too many of the generational lies about the EU and it’s impact are still believed.

telemachus

You and I are lucky to have the cloak of solidarity that is the EU around us

global city

Please, explain how?

telemachus

The single market
The security
The emotional nourishment of the historic cloak of Christendom

gerontius

And of course the cheap imported labour.

gerontius

Ha Ha Ha!
Truly, you are a Lib/Dem at heart little telemarchus.

Kitty MLB

I hope not! telemachus would have to start, tying himself
to useless wind farms – wonder where Lib Dems get all their hot air from. As well as
yoghurt knitting ( as someone says) as well as making strange
things with mushrooms ( but I hope he doesn’t become
know for their other less palatable habits!)

telemachus

Telemachus does indeed believe in the drive against global warming with sustainable energy
Given the recent floods it is unpatriotic to do likewise

Who’s afraiid of the Big Bad Wolf? Well Nige is, apparently.
Nige is all wind and no knickers. The fact is Clegg is pretty good on TV and LBC, but absolutely hopeless in the Commons.

James Allen

What, by repeatedly calling for a debate? No, he’s just not stupid enough to rise to the bait being offered by the duplicitous Cleggy (who talks to camera with his best ‘honest, off-the-cuff, nice public schoolboy’ bullshit mouth).

swatnan

As Mrs T would have said: ‘Nige is ruunning frit’

James Allen

Apparently not.

anyfool

He would risk debating with a man and party that is fading out of the mainstream of British politics, the people who remain with the Lib Dems are unthinking fanatics on Europe, Why give Clegg a sole moment in the light, besides the refusal by Cameron and Miliband will give an indication to Labour and Conservative sceptics that they are not really serious about their feelings on Europe.
He should milk it for all it is worth then debate wiyh Clegg while at the sametime calling the gutless two out.

George_Arseborne

No Comment!!!!!!!!!

anyfool

Even no comment!!!!!!!!! is a comment, probably the only sensible one you have ever made.

Nicholas chuzzlewit

Definitely the only sensible comment he has ever made.

Kitty MLB

Indeed silence is the art on conversation,
and I assume this is the most productive most he’s ever
written.