Pen-F confuses me

I've looked for someone addressing this issue but found no comment or explanation. I don't get the big rotary switch on the front of the new Pen F. Not only is it ugly, looking like the channel selector switch from a 1970s TV set (Grundfos, if I remember correctly) but most of it's prospective buyers will be RAW shooters who've never used the Art Filters in their existing cameras and are very unlikely to use them now that they are in a switch in the front. Is it Emperors New Clothes? Why is no-one pointing and laughing?

I've looked for someone addressing this issue but found no comment or explanation. I don't get the big rotary switch on the front of the new Pen F. Not only is it ugly, looking like the channel selector switch from a 1970s TV set (Grundfos, if I remember correctly) but most of it's prospective buyers will be RAW shooters who've never used the Art Filters in their existing cameras and are very unlikely to use them now that they are in a switch in the front. Is it Emperors New Clothes? Why is no-one pointing and laughing?

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Are you trolling? Most discussions so far have gone over it at great length. And I expect most of the prospective buyers are the typical Fuji type users who prefer manual controls, a great OOC look and NOT fiddling with RAW.

I'm not a fan of the PEN F, but who knows, it may be a hit. People loooove their filters. Just try and find a modern camera or a phone without filters...they put them in and people use them. I'm a little confused as to why it's so prominent on a camera with such a steep price tag, but it's a feature of even the highest-end cameras Olympus makes, so it's not unheard of for an expensive M4/3 to have this function, it's merely more pronounced on the PEN F.

When I started doing photography seriously years and years ago (I was shooting for newspapers), I had a Canon 30D, which was about the equivalent of a PEN F today (price, market position) or even a bit higher (it was the top "prosumer" Canon at the time). I remember using the B/W function on it all the time (for my personal stuff, never the paper). I kind of figured if I can get it done in camera, why bother post processing? I remember fiddling a ton on those cameras to set up different profiles, I can't recall what they were called now, where you could adjust saturation, sharpness, contrast, etc, in camera, and save a set of settings. Then you could use whatever profile you wanted...I did that quite a bit and did very little to no post processing (for the paper I always shot with neutral settings, and other people - editors/layout people - did all the post processing, but for my own shots, I set profiles and shot them with those, and then did no post processing because I hated sitting behind the computer any more than I had to for work.

Since then I've moved past that phase and now always shoot in RAW or neutral JPEG profiles and then post process. But I can understand where people who would want filters are coming from.

I don't think anyone even saw it to laugh at it, going by how far you have to scroll down to even find the bugger on any best sellers list. Put it this way: #60 on amazon and - hilariously - coming in behind the Hasselblad Lunar at the same price point (how much would you pay for the original A6000?) on B&H seems to ensure it will be quickly and quietly snuffed.

I don't think anyone even saw it to laugh at it, going by how far you have to scroll down to even find the bugger on any best sellers list. Put it this way: #60 on amazon and - hilariously - coming in behind the Hasselblad Lunar at the same price point (how much would you pay for the original A6000?) on B&H seems to ensure it will be quickly and quietly snuffed.

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Not to bash on the PEN F, but I'm not surprised by your findings at all. It's overpriced and underwhelming. It's priced like a class-leading, revolutionary camera. It isn't. The mirrorless market is fiercely competitive these days with no shortage of excellent offerings from a huge variety of manufacturers.

The PEN F offers nothing in terms of features or price that would make it stand out.

As for that Hasselblad...how the heck are they still making it and who is buying them??

.....but most of it's prospective buyers will be RAW shooters who've never used the Art Filters

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You are making a HUGE assumption there - presumably because you shoot raw and assume everyone else does too. That's simply not the case as we discussed in another thread. I am a 100% raw shooter, but there are others who are 100% JPEG shooters and many others in between who shoot both according to their needs at the time. Several people spoke up about wanting to use the art filters since they could get the look they wanted in-camera and don't like messing with software like lightroom.

Not to bash on the PEN F, but I'm not surprised by your findings at all. It's overpriced and underwhelming. It's priced like a class-leading, revolutionary camera. It isn't. The mirrorless market is fiercely competitive these days with no shortage of excellent offerings from a huge variety of manufacturers.

The PEN F offers nothing in terms of features or price that would make it stand out.

As for that Hasselblad...how the heck are they still making it and who is buying them??

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It's funny though, they both kind of seem like that same cargo culty approach to creating a premium camera - not through you know, actually developing anything or changing anything around that's already developed to justify its position, just stick some ill-thought-out bits on a regular camera and see who bites. Premium cameras all have weird bits on them so we stuck just a shitload of them in all kinds of places so you know this is definitely worth 1200 bucks.

It's funny though, they both kind of seem like that same cargo culty approach to creating a premium camera - not through you know, actually developing anything or changing anything around that's already developed to justify its position, just stick some ill-thought-out bits on a regular camera and see who bites. Premium cameras all have weird bits on them so we stuck just a shitload of them in all kinds of places so you know this is definitely worth 1200 bucks.

I've looked for someone addressing this issue but found no comment or explanation. I don't get the big rotary switch on the front of the new Pen F. Not only is it ugly, looking like the channel selector switch from a 1970s TV set (Grundfos, if I remember correctly) but most of it's prospective buyers will be RAW shooters who've never used the Art Filters in their existing cameras and are very unlikely to use them now that they are in a switch in the front. Is it Emperors New Clothes? Why is no-one pointing and laughing?

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This camera isn't for me but I can see why someone would buy it. Personally I think it gorgeous...

The PEN F offers nothing in terms of features or price that would make it stand out.

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The Pen F offers a very significant appeal that has never been offered before: rangefinder styling, with a built-in EVF, coupled with the superb 5-axis IBIS! With this combination, you have a m4/3 body that I believe will ultimately be a strong seller for Olympus. But whether it becomes a strong seller, or not, is not all-important to me.

As an avid RAW shooter, the filter features aren't of very much interest to me, though I will occasionally dabble with them, along with my RAW captures, and don't mind that the camera has them.

I dislike DSLR styled m4/3 bodies and have stopped buying them. The GX7 has been my primary m4/3 body ever since it was released. Fantastic camera and form factor. Now, I can have a similarly styled body with the fantastic 5-axis IBIS! To me THAT is the significant appeal of the Pen-F, why I bought one, why I love it, and why I'm keeping it.

EDITED TO ADD - now that I've been shooting with the camera for a while... I LOVE it and also appreciate the quick and easy convenience of B&W film-like capture right along with my RAW captures. No problem whatsoever with the ArtFilters control and how it works. It's great. Big thumbs up on this camera.

Since owning an OM-D, my output has almost exclusively changed from RAW to jpeg (given the quality of the Olympus jpegs)...I generally send pictures by wi-fi to my ipad and tweak in VCSO, then share or print. There's only been a handful of shots which I have felt the need to edit in Lightroom tbh.

I've looked for someone addressing this issue but found no comment or explanation. I don't get the big rotary switch on the front of the new Pen F. Not only is it ugly, looking like the channel selector switch from a 1970s TV set (Grundfos, if I remember correctly) but most of it's prospective buyers will be RAW shooters who've never used the Art Filters in their existing cameras and are very unlikely to use them now that they are in a switch in the front. Is it Emperors New Clothes? Why is no-one pointing and laughing?

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I know you can't see me but I am laughing. But at you. Most buyers will be raw shooters? Do you live under a rock? MOST people shoot JPEGs.

On another note, why do you care so much so that you would start a thread to bash a new product? If you think you know so well what the buying public wants, why not get a job wit Oly? What is with all the armchair experts since the introduction of the F? I'm on my phone so I am not going to attempt to see your "award winning" shots, but shouldn't you worry more about "you" since you are the weak link and not any of the modern gear? No camera will turn our snapshots into best sellers. Jeeeesus.

The Pen F offers a very significant appeal that has never been offered before: rangefinder styling, with a built-in EVF, coupled with the superb 5-axis IBIS! With this combination, you have a m4/3 body that I believe will ultimately be a strong seller for Olympus. But whether it becomes a strong seller, or not, is not important to me.

I'm a RAW shooter and, thus, the filter features aren't of much interest to me, though I will occasionally dabble with them, along with my RAW captures.

I dislike DSLR styled m4/3 bodies and have stopped buying them. The GX7 has been my primary m4/3 body ever since it was released. Fantastic camera and form factor. Now, I can have a similarly styled body with the fantastic 5-axis IBIS! To me THAT is the significant appeal of the Pen-F, why I bought one, why I love it, and why I'm keeping it.

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I'm a huge fan of 5 axis IBIS. However, I would choose a GX8 (rangefinder, EVF, 4 axis IBIS, and weathersealed!!) over a PEN F any day of the week. In real world applications, there isn't a noticeably difference between the 4 and the 5 axis IBIS. Plus, does the PEN support Dual IS?

Whether it's a strong seller or not SHOULD be important to you. Mirrorless cameras aren't exactly bringing buckets and buckets of profits to Olympus. For the brand to survive, they can't afford too many flops, and they need some big successes like the OM-D series.

I've looked for someone addressing this issue but found no comment or explanation. I don't get the big rotary switch on the front of the new Pen F. Not only is it ugly, looking like the channel selector switch from a 1970s TV set (Grundfos, if I remember correctly) but most of it's prospective buyers will be RAW shooters who've never used the Art Filters in their existing cameras and are very unlikely to use them now that they are in a switch in the front. Is it Emperors New Clothes? Why is no-one pointing and laughing?

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There is nothing about the PEN-F to 'laugh at'. Though I'm an avid RAW shooter, I don't mind the ArtFilter capability, which I may dabble with on occasion (along with RAW capture).

This is a very significant camera, in my view. It is the first rangefinder-styled camera with a built-in EVF and Olympus superb 5-axis IBIS! I also like the size of the body very much. THAT is the reason I bought a PEN-F, why I love it, and why I will be keeping it.

Since owning an OM-D, my output has almost exclusively changed from RAW to jpeg (given the quality of the Olympus jpegs)...I generally send pictures by wi-fi to my ipad and tweak in VCSO, then share or print. There's only been a handful of shots which I have felt the need to edit in Lightroom tbh.

I'm a huge fan of 5 axis IBIS. However, I would choose a GX8 (rangefinder, EVF, 4 axis IBIS, and weathersealed!!) over a PEN F any day of the week. In real world applications, there isn't a noticeably difference between the 4 and the 5 axis IBIS. Plus, does the PEN support Dual IS?

Whether it's a strong seller or not SHOULD be important to you. Mirrorless cameras aren't exactly bringing buckets and buckets of profits to Olympus. For the brand to survive, they can't afford too many flops, and they need some big successes like the OM-D series.

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Buy whatever you prefer, any day of the week. I don't mind at all. The GX8 is a great camera (though I don't like the increase in body size vs. the GX7) and I may add one to the mix. But it doesn't make me appreciate the PEN-F any less!

I don't wish for Olympus to go out of business, so from that standpoint, I hope for all of their models to sell well. Same with LUMIX.

There is nothing about the PEN-F to 'laugh at'. Though I'm an avid RAW shooter, I don't mind the ArtFilter capability, which I may dabble with on occasion (along with RAW capture).

This is a very significant camera, in my view. It is the first rangefinder-styled camera with a built-in EVF and Olympus superb 5-axis IBIS! THAT is the reason I bought a PEN-F, why I love it, and why I will be keeping it.

Laugh if it makes you feel good.

I like this camera!

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If you're happy with it, then that's great. Regardless of what I think of the camera, I do hope (for the overall benefit of the brand) that's it's a massive success and they sell a billion of them. (No sarcasm!) I just won't be one of those customers, that's all.

Please tell me you are counting in "internet" time. The 30D was released in 2006, and I'm having enough trouble not feeling old without a decade being considered "years and years ago".

--Ken

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Haha...I'm definitely counting in internet/technology time.

And I hear you on that! (This is going a little off-topic, but hey, at least we're getting along and not insulting each other like some others *cough cough*, right? lol)...I'm a teacher and I was getting my Grade 8s to do timelines. A couple of them got the years 1851-1900. They came up with an idea of trying to find a company that is still around today, but was founded in that time period. The first one they thought of was YouTube. When I said it's way too new, they replied with "But it's been around forever!!!". Then I realized that as far as their memories go, there's never been a time when YouTube didn't exist...THAT made me feel old!

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