0.75 steals/ 40 min

None of the above

16 and 12 tonight. Orlando will not make the playoffs this year. They may have the worst pair of point guards I've seen. Dwight and Darko were abusing the Nets down low, yet the pg's kept jacking up outside shots, which they missed.

Saw a first, a player try to draw a block on his own team mate. Darko was under the basket wide open, begging Arroyo to pass him the ball. Arroyo was at the 3 point line, saw Darko, and instead of passing, he dribbled from the arc, into the paint, into Darko, then tried to shoot over Darko, bricking the ball. Classic Arroyo.

Saw a first, a player try to draw a block on his own team mate. Darko was under the basket wide open, begging Arroyo to pass him the ball. Arroyo was at the 3 point line, saw Darko, and instead of passing, he dribbled from the arc, into the paint, into Darko, then tried to shoot over Darko, bricking the ball. Classic Arroyo.

What's even more frustrating is to here overbloated praising (triple teaming references) and poor logicial deduction (dominated Duncan) over and over again. Although I appreciate your courtesy of omitting my name from a criticism that is obviously linked to my post, your comment is off the mark in my opinion. My perspective on Darko was that he played great defense on Duncan at the expense of the rest of his game (poor rebounding/scoring/assists). Having watched many Orlando Magic games (in person as well), I see that as a trend throughout the season.This makes him a role player in my eyes. He has not shown the ability to put it all together yet. That makes him absolutely no different than a ton of players in the league who have potential that never manifests into starter/all-star status. It is possible to enjoy the game, the victory without making Darko out to be the second coming. You should try it sometime.

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How much did you watch Kamen in his first season of palying in the NBA? Kamen had night after night with nothing for stats. And on defense, heck, he was nothing compared to Darko. Nothing at all. Putting the whole package together usually comes in a players 3rd season. However, compared to most, Darko is putting things together quite well as of late. You look at Bosh's first season or two (I watched every game he played those two seasons) it was none too impressive. Indeed, Bosh is still a zero on interior D. Thats not putting it altogether either. The criticism of Darko not already being a superstar is pretty thin to me. Give it some time.

1-2 with darko starting...keep that lineup orlando!! we want a lotto pick!!

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Orlando is only 1 game from falling into the lottery. Actually, they are only a couple games back from falling into the bottom ten in the NBA, which would be a top ten pick for the Pistons. The Magic schedule isn't getting any easier either and the team seems to be falling apart.

... When will Darko's newbieness finally be put to rest? At what point will he no longer be considered a rookie? When he becomes a starter? When he starts putting up decent numbers? When he builds up enough material to support your argument? Will the dream ever die? Will the obsession ever die?

Perhaps its time to realise that he is not going to be a double-double machine like All-Stars Bosh and Howard, that Darko's niche in the league will be a defensive specialist and solid role player.

For me, I still have a hard time understanding what makes this guy such an obsession for some people. He didn't work out in Detroit. He is on another team. Why are people so fixated with his career? Who cares, see you later, hope we kick your team's behinds every time we play you. There's only one loyalty to me. Team loyalty.

And I don't even live in Detroit. I don't even live in Michigan. Hell, I don't even live in the country. But the Pistons are my team. Thats all that matters. Players come and go, but loyalty for my team will never waver.

How much did you watch Kamen in his first season of palying in the NBA? Kamen had night after night with nothing for stats. And on defense, heck, he was nothing compared to Darko. Nothing at all. Putting the whole package together usually comes in a players 3rd season. However, compared to most, Darko is putting things together quite well as of late. You look at Bosh's first season or two (I watched every game he played those two seasons) it was none too impressive. Indeed, Bosh is still a zero on interior D. Thats not putting it altogether either. The criticism of Darko not already being a superstar is pretty thin to me. Give it some time.

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Alot actually. Central Michigan was our rival in college so I was very interested in his progress.

But thanks because it only serves to prove my point more.

Have you seen Chris Kaman this year? Chris Kaman is average.

BTW, you don't have to be a superstar to put up good numbers. That's an assumption. The fact that he had yet to have a breakout game is however relevant. Please refer to the previous posts that compared Darko's stats to superstars in their rookie years (although Darko is far from a rookie).

After checking up on Chris Kaman's stats last year I need to recant my statement. Based on last year's performance a label as a potential all-star center is definitely not too far off.

Your point about young players taking sometime to put it all together has some credence. I guess I just don't buy the whole Darko is really a rookie campaign. Doesn't sit well with me. I will agree that if Darko strings a couple of games like tonight together...he might finally be on to something. Doubt that he will though.

I see where Okur Doker has stepped up his game considerably, much to Zeke's disappointment last night, since Boozer has been out.

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The same thing happened last year- with Boozer in, Okur is the 2nd option and his game is less effective. With Boozer out, he fills his role.
I guess Okur feels way better playing the 4 than the 5. He's already one of the best clutch shooters in the league (there have been tons of games he hit the game winner or tying basket with the final second).
Yet for Darko, he keeps struggling. Next season will be the ultimate test.
If he doesn't pan out then he'll be one of the biggest disappointments ever considering the fact that players like Wade, Anthony or Boch were drafted after him. I wished that would've happened to another team than the Pistons.

Nothing in my post had anything to do with consistency. I said he has yet to put together a complete game.

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is 16 points, 12 rebounds, 1 steal, 4 blocks as the 3rd or 4th option on offense a complete game?? i told you he was like a 7 foot ak47. i disagree that you're a role player if you are great on 1 side of the floor. that would mean ben wallace is a role player. he's garbage on the offensive end.

And please answer me this question. Why does playing with Sheed/Dice/B.Wallace/Campbell not count as an advantage over other players his age.

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because during an nba season they don't practice as often as you think. darko probably watched them just as much as he played against them.

while other nba big men played against okur, b.wallace, dice, sheed, randolf, o'neal, j o' neal, mourning, d. howard, tim duncan, okafur, kristic, k. abdul jabbar, the dream, yao ming, amare, bosh etc. darko can defend sheed, dice, b. wallace and elden he is playing these other guys for the first time.

He's also had the benefit of multiple summer league camps and substantial minutes at the end of last season. As convenient as it is to call Darko a rookie he really isn't by any stretch of the imagination.

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darko is a vet that's played less than the minutes of any other nba lottery pick would have got in thier first year. i do understand who i'm talking to and concepts that are good for darko are difficult for you to grasp.

So, are these numbers really conclusive one way or another? Depends on what side you're on and what colour glasses you wear. Minutes are a factor with Bosh and Howard playing similar minutes, around 10 more than Darko. But so what? We are comparing rookie seasons* here. Both Bosh and Howard had well and truly shown us what they are capable of by the half way point of their true rookie seasons with a number of big breakout games.
Darko has 2 double-doubles to his name and a few semi-break out games featuring some high block totals in his rookie season*. But nothing that stands out.

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you also forget the role on the team darko plays. d. howard and bosh were called upon to be the man on thier lottery teams. darko was called upon first to be the low post presence off the bench and now he is the robin to d. howard. yes his stats don't match up to thiers but he hasn't been called upon to do so.

When will Darko's newbieness finally be put to rest? At what point will he no longer be considered a rookie? When he becomes a starter? When he starts putting up decent numbers? When he builds up enough material to support your argument? Will the dream ever die? Will the obsession ever die?
Perhaps its time to realise that he is not going to be a double-double machine like All-Stars Bosh and Howard, that Darko's niche in the league will be a defensive specialist and solid role player.

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i'll put it to rest when he's played a complete 82 game season. rasheed isn't a double double machine, ben isn't a double double machine, j oneal wasn't a double double machine, okur wasn't a double double machine, dirk wasn't a double double machine and yet none of these guys today would be called solid role players.

For me, I still have a hard time understanding what makes this guy such an obsession for some people. He didn't work out in Detroit. He is on another team. Why are people so fixated with his career? Who cares, see you later, hope we kick your team's behinds every time we play you. There's only one loyalty to me. Team loyalty.

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darko is relevant because he represents detroits lack of talent development. he was a good thing that happened to us because he changed the teams attitude on developing talent. now delfino, maxiell and hopefully amir will get real legit shots at becoming contributors.

And I don't even live in Detroit. I don't even live in Michigan. Hell, I don't even live in the country. But the Pistons are my team. Thats all that matters. Players come and go, but loyalty for my team will never waver.

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if you are loyal to your team don't you want them to do what's best for the team??

Alot actually. Central Michigan was our rival in college so I was very interested in his progress.

But thanks because it only serves to prove my point more.

Have you seen Chris Kaman this year? Chris Kaman is average.

BTW, you don't have to be a superstar to put up good numbers. That's an assumption. The fact that he had yet to have a breakout game is however relevant. Please refer to the previous posts that compared Darko's stats to superstars in their rookie years (although Darko is far from a rookie).

Okay, I have to stop now...I have enough bballjays to deal with.

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Darko is a rookie, and worse than that, he is a rookie who has not played basketball for several years, leaving him at an even greater disadvantage than the average rookie.

Kamen was the 6th pick in the draft that year. Are you now going to claim that Kamen, a lottery pick, is a bust? He is an NBA starter and has had many very complete games. Is Kamen just a role player in your book. I would like to know, because there have been a lot of people who claim Kamen is a far better player than Darko. If in your opinion Darko is the better player, that would make him not that much of a bust afterall.

Darko is a rookie, and worse than that, he is a rookie who has not played basketball for several years, leaving him at an even greater disadvantage than the average rookie.

Kamen was the 6th pick in the draft that year. Are you now going to claim that Kamen, a lottery pick, is a bust? He is an NBA starter and has had many very complete games. Is Kamen just a role player in your book. I would like to know, because there have been a lot of people who claim Kamen is a far better player than Darko. If in your opinion Darko is the better player, that would make him not that much of a bust afterall.

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You obviously didn't read the following post.

Summary...

Kaman was on the brink of all-star status last year but this year he has been one of the most underachieving players in the NBA. I also agreed with your thoughts on taking time to put together a complete game, but disagreed that Darko should be evaluated like a first year player.

is 16 points, 12 rebounds, 1 steal, 4 blocks as the 3rd or 4th option on offense a complete game?? i told you he was like a 7 foot ak47. i disagree that you're a role player if you are great on 1 side of the floor. that would mean ben wallace is a role player. he's garbage on the offensive end.

because during an nba season they don't practice as often as you think. darko probably watched them just as much as he played against them.

while other nba big men played against okur, b.wallace, dice, sheed, randolf, o'neal, j o' neal, mourning, d. howard, tim duncan, okafur, kristic, k. abdul jabbar, the dream, yao ming, amare, bosh etc. darko can defend sheed, dice, b. wallace and elden he is playing these other guys for the first time.

darko is a vet that's played less than the minutes of any other nba lottery pick would have got in thier first year. i do understand who i'm talking to and concepts that are good for darko are difficult for you to grasp.

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Missed the point. Ben has a complete defensive game. Darko hadn't put up good rebounding numbers to compliment his man to man defense.

I would agree that Darko just had a complete game. He should be applauded for that. That would explain why you came out of hiding. Where will you be when he sucks it up again?

Darko didn't just play with quality big men, he was mentored by them. Big difference.

Your happiness with Darko's play is meaningless as it pertains to validating his performance since you've never been able to admit when he isn't playing well.

Ok, so say we buy this junk that Darko is a 'rookie'. Lets compare his 'rookie' season so far against those other special players mentioned - Chris Bosh and Dwight Howard - with their rookie seasons shall we?

All 3 are big men, who mostly play around the rim (when Darko hits a 3 I may consider him a perimeter player), therefore as special players, should be racking up double-doubles. Lets check those numbers.

Through end of January in respective rookie seasons.

Bosh - 7
Howard - 14
Darko - 2

So what about breakout games? Something to indicate these guys may one day become special. Best 3 performances through end of Jan.

So, are these numbers really conclusive one way or another? Depends on what side you're on and what colour glasses you wear. Minutes are a factor with Bosh and Howard playing similar minutes, around 10 more than Darko. But so what? We are comparing rookie seasons* here. Both Bosh and Howard had well and truly shown us what they are capable of by the half way point of their true rookie seasons with a number of big breakout games.
Darko has 2 double-doubles to his name and a few semi-break out games featuring some high block totals in his rookie season*. But nothing that stands out.

When will Darko's newbieness finally be put to rest? At what point will he no longer be considered a rookie? When he becomes a starter? When he starts putting up decent numbers? When he builds up enough material to support your argument? Will the dream ever die? Will the obsession ever die?
Perhaps its time to realise that he is not going to be a double-double machine like All-Stars Bosh and Howard, that Darko's niche in the league will be a defensive specialist and solid role player.

For me, I still have a hard time understanding what makes this guy such an obsession for some people. He didn't work out in Detroit. He is on another team. Why are people so fixated with his career? Who cares, see you later, hope we kick your team's behinds every time we play you. There's only one loyalty to me. Team loyalty.

And I don't even live in Detroit. I don't even live in Michigan. Hell, I don't even live in the country. But the Pistons are my team. Thats all that matters. Players come and go, but loyalty for my team will never waver.

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Thanks Webz. This post brought tears to my eyes. Cue the Final Countdown...

Here is the thing about Darko's rebounding. The Magic are 4th best in the league in rebounding differential. And on this team, Darko has the 2nd highest rebs per game. And this is coming off the bench in only 23 minutes. So is he a good rebounder? Well, besides Howard, the Magic don't have a better one.

We all know the Pistons inside and out, so let's compare him to our team. The Pistons' rebounding leader this year is Sheed with 8.2 rebs per 33.6 minutes. If you give Darko 33.6 minutes, his rebounds would come in at 7.6. So Sheed would gets .6 more rebounds per game than Darko in the time alloted. Virtually dead even.

Last season is probably a better comparison, since Detroit had a Dwight Howard type in there with Ben Wallace, who was hogging the boards. Last year, Sheed was averaging only 6.8 rebs in 35 minutes. In 35 minutes this year, Darko is averaging 7.8.

My point is, dominating rebounders get rebounds that their teammates would otherwise get. Also, smart players will do things to help the Dwight Howards and Ben Wallaces of the world, like boxing out and tipping balls in their direction.

Here is the thing about Darko's rebounding. The Magic are 4th best in the league in rebounding differential. And on this team, Darko has the 2nd highest rebs per game. And this is coming off the bench in only 23 minutes. So is he a good rebounder? Well, besides Howard, the Magic don't have a better one.

We all know the Pistons inside and out, so let's compare him to our team. The Pistons' rebounding leader this year is Sheed with 8.2 rebs per 33.6 minutes. If you give Darko 33.6 minutes, his rebounds would come in at 7.6. So Sheed would gets .6 more rebounds per game than Darko in the time alloted. Virtually dead even.

Last season is probably a better comparison, since Detroit had a Dwight Howard type in there with Ben Wallace, who was hogging the boards. Last year, Sheed was averaging only 6.8 rebs in 35 minutes. In 35 minutes this year, Darko is averaging 7.8.

My point is, dominating rebounders get rebounds that their teammates would otherwise get. Also, smart players will do things to help the Dwight Howards and Ben Wallaces of the world, like boxing out and tipping balls in their direction.

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So if Darko has spent most of the season on the floor when Dwight is out, who is gobbling up his rebounds. Trevor Ariza?