Comments on: Is the Church Governed by Social Revelation?http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169
Fri, 26 Jun 2015 09:36:09 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1By: Andyhttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169&cpage=1#comment-1208
AndyThu, 29 Sep 2005 09:40:52 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169#comment-1208I remember it all so well. Thanks.
I remember it all so well. Thanks.
]]>By: donhttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169&cpage=1#comment-1207
donTue, 27 Sep 2005 19:51:07 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169#comment-1207J., I was gone by '68, and Bellevue was and is the upper crust area, I lived in "Rat City" - White Center (West Seattle area....slums)J., I was gone by ’68, and Bellevue was and is the upper crust area, I lived in “Rat City” – White Center (West Seattle area….slums)
]]>By: J. Stapleyhttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169&cpage=1#comment-1206
J. StapleyTue, 27 Sep 2005 19:23:52 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169#comment-1206Ron and Julie. They lived in Bellevue from 69 to 89. They were pretty involved in with the Temple.Ron and Julie. They lived in Bellevue from 69 to 89. They were pretty involved in with the Temple.
]]>By: donhttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169&cpage=1#comment-1205
donTue, 27 Sep 2005 09:15:00 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169#comment-1205J.
Who were your parents that I should know them? Where did they live and when?
Considering all the changes that have taken place, it would be interesting to speculate on what will take place in the near future.
How about LDS acadamy schools to protect our youth and educate them with like minded peers?
Or expanding the PEF to include all members?
Or ??J.
Who were your parents that I should know them? Where did they live and when?

Considering all the changes that have taken place, it would be interesting to speculate on what will take place in the near future.

How about LDS acadamy schools to protect our youth and educate them with like minded peers?

Or expanding the PEF to include all members?

Or ??

]]>By: Geoff Jhttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169&cpage=1#comment-1204
Geoff JTue, 27 Sep 2005 03:57:40 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169#comment-1204RT,
I agree -- tensions can and do arise. And you are right that culturally we are in the midst of a period where bureaucracy/authority is sometimes overpowering/drowning personal revelation. I think it is high time the trend started reversing, personally. I believe that over reliance on authority (and neglect of personal revelation) has led to spiritual and revelatory atrophy among many of the saints.
I think this disharmony that occasionally arises between the two as you describe is what drives many of the best posts and discussions in the bloggernacle.RT,

I agree — tensions can and do arise. And you are right that culturally we are in the midst of a period where bureaucracy/authority is sometimes overpowering/drowning personal revelation. I think it is high time the trend started reversing, personally. I believe that over reliance on authority (and neglect of personal revelation) has led to spiritual and revelatory atrophy among many of the saints.

I think this disharmony that occasionally arises between the two as you describe is what drives many of the best posts and discussions in the bloggernacle.

]]>By: RoastedTomatoeshttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169&cpage=1#comment-1203
RoastedTomatoesTue, 27 Sep 2005 03:37:33 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169#comment-1203Geoff, there's an interesting element of tension between your two proposed constitutive elements of the true church. Authority in human hands tends toward bureaucratization and sometimes authoritarianism; personal revelation in human hands tends toward anarchy. Early LDS history shows experience of both of these extremes; recent LDS experience tends much more strongly, I think, in the bureaucratic direction. But in mortal experience, these two principles are not always in harmony. Perhaps this could best be described as an opportunity for creative and constructive disharmony, as each principle works to undermine the negatives of the other?Geoff, there’s an interesting element of tension between your two proposed constitutive elements of the true church. Authority in human hands tends toward bureaucratization and sometimes authoritarianism; personal revelation in human hands tends toward anarchy. Early LDS history shows experience of both of these extremes; recent LDS experience tends much more strongly, I think, in the bureaucratic direction. But in mortal experience, these two principles are not always in harmony. Perhaps this could best be described as an opportunity for creative and constructive disharmony, as each principle works to undermine the negatives of the other?
]]>By: Geoff Jhttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169&cpage=1#comment-1202
Geoff JTue, 27 Sep 2005 02:48:27 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169#comment-1202<i>this seems like a useful starting place, no? </i>
I agree, RT. And in fact, we may eventually learn that revelation and authority are basically the whole story.
I mean the primitive church was changing all the time too (think of the revelation Peter received about preaching to the gentiles for example). I think that the rock Jesus talked to Peter about really was the rock of current revelation (at every level of the church). That is the rock upon which the true is always founded in all ages.this seems like a useful starting place, no?

I agree, RT. And in fact, we may eventually learn that revelation and authority are basically the whole story.

I mean the primitive church was changing all the time too (think of the revelation Peter received about preaching to the gentiles for example). I think that the rock Jesus talked to Peter about really was the rock of current revelation (at every level of the church). That is the rock upon which the true is always founded in all ages.

]]>By: J. Stapleyhttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169&cpage=1#comment-1201
J. StapleyTue, 27 Sep 2005 01:26:06 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169#comment-1201Don, did you know my family back in the day?Don, did you know my family back in the day?
]]>By: Brethttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169&cpage=1#comment-1200
BretTue, 27 Sep 2005 01:21:01 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169#comment-1200Don,
You were a YOUNG couple when the Seattle temple was being built? Are you sure?
RT and everyone,
I like to think (not that you disagree or agree) that many of those old things were weeded out and in some ways the church is more refined without all the weird things like the Adam-God doctrine, etc.
Maybe with all the people the church continues to employ they'll get rid of visitor center sisters.Don,
You were a YOUNG couple when the Seattle temple was being built? Are you sure?
RT and everyone,
I like to think (not that you disagree or agree) that many of those old things were weeded out and in some ways the church is more refined without all the weird things like the Adam-God doctrine, etc.
Maybe with all the people the church continues to employ they’ll get rid of visitor center sisters.
]]>By: Clarkhttp://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169&cpage=1#comment-1199
ClarkTue, 27 Sep 2005 01:02:47 +0000http://www.nine-moons.com/?p=169#comment-1199John, I've worked on several church farms here within the last 10 years. Although more and more of the orchards are being sold as subdivisions as the housing market squeezes out farming in the region. Why should the church have fruit orchards for little return when it could sell the land to developers for millions of dollars? A few million dollars buys a lot of pears...
However the canning program and the like are still going great guns here in Utah.
I'd also caution about the law of adoption. I don't agree with RT in the least that we don't follow it any more. Rather, we only follow it with respect to mortal adoptions. But the grafting of adoption seems primarily to necessitate knowledge that we don't have right now and that likely can't be had convincingly until the Millennium.John, I’ve worked on several church farms here within the last 10 years. Although more and more of the orchards are being sold as subdivisions as the housing market squeezes out farming in the region. Why should the church have fruit orchards for little return when it could sell the land to developers for millions of dollars? A few million dollars buys a lot of pears…

However the canning program and the like are still going great guns here in Utah.

I’d also caution about the law of adoption. I don’t agree with RT in the least that we don’t follow it any more. Rather, we only follow it with respect to mortal adoptions. But the grafting of adoption seems primarily to necessitate knowledge that we don’t have right now and that likely can’t be had convincingly until the Millennium.