Is a big joke, actually the church is nothing but wagging and pursuing a joke that can have ramifications when other religious groups starts to fly
around their "violations of religious freedom" also

If the joke we call church in the US get aways with this "violation of religious freedom" they are pushing up the arses of people in the US
so any religion out there can do the same base on whatever they want

That includes getting away with those that under religion freedom do not eat certain food or drink alcohol or follow whatever

Because as employers this can violate their "religious rights", so if your employer doesn't eat pork or drink so you can not do so because
they can hold back on the mandatory health care.

No I am not in favor of Obamacare that is another joke but the ramifications of what the joke we call church is doing can span either way under the
"religious Freedom" banner

This goes way deeper than the Catholic Church. The true intent by Obama is clearly to start the process of removing the separation of Church and
State, along with freedom of thought and belief. Even those who are not Christian or Catholic should be angry about what Obama is attempting.
Something important to you may be next on the radical progressives list.

Remember that most Democrats are also Christians or belong to other Faiths. They are endangered by this also.

It's all part of the divide and conquer strategy. Sadly this method works on those not alert to what is being done to them or how they are being
used. This has nothing at all to do with Women and their rights, it's an attempt to remove freedoms one at a time "for our own good" by people who
would control us all.

People ignore this at their own peril. Even the Atheists should be against this form of control coming from the Alinsky / Marxist crowd.

The Catholic church-run hospitals are on the public dole, taking in federal dollars. If they want to be the recipients of our tax dollars then they
can start complying with federal laws, like employment and wage laws, and start paying their taxes like every other for-profit institution. Otherwise
they can STFU.

Originally posted by DrBones666
Ok, so no offense intended to the miriad of replies and people for whom this is a hot button topic but; since when did right wing catholic
fundamentalists ever vote for a left wing black man anyway? In todays world, and with his particular progressive voter base (including those who are
just sick of meaningless social division) a few less ring kissers won't have any effect whatsoever. The very people that this set of fundies have
alienated will vote left regardless.

Catholics, too, moved noticeably in a Democratic direction in 2008; overall, Catholics supported Obama over McCain by a nine-point margin (54% vs.
45%).

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Oh Hi religious organization
I see you want to become a political organization now...ok, cool.
lets just remove that pesky tax exempt status that religious organizations enjoy.

Oh Hi ignorant poster.

I see you want to pretend that religious organizations have never been political at all...O.K., cool.

Go ahead, let's just remove that pesky tax exempt status and let's watch the IRS crumble to pieces because they're pressured to tax churches who
have never been made liable for any so called "income tax" and are not in anyway subject to any applicable revenue laws. Go on, sport. Remove that
pesky tax exempt status and watch the Vatican go toe to toe with an organization barely a hundred years old. You think the silly IRS can go up
against the Catholic Church on this, do you?

It won't only be the Catholic Church, either. The Jewish Temples, Muslims, and other Christians, not to mention the pagans, will all come to realize
they're under no obligation to file any stupid forms with the IRS, and certainly do not need any approval by the IRS to be a "bona fide" religion.
No religion needs to apply for "tax exempt" status in order to be a religion, and no government agency has any Constitutional authority to say
otherwise.

Technical difficulties aside.
What do you personally think about the vatican deciding how the US should run?

I remember the concern of JFK. the people were up in arms that a catholic would be potus, because they didn't want the Vatican to stick their nose in
american politics. He even had to ensure that he would be running the country based on our ideals and constitution and not be a puppet for Vatican
desires.

So, I am wondering if the people have changed their mind...

Maybe we can change to become one of the papal states

and back to the technical: Seniority means little
the sword was used long before the gun.
Which would you rather have on you in a fight?

What do you personally think about the vatican deciding how the US should run?

Wasn't aware they were after all people scream separation of church and state all the time around here which means some people are advocating the
unconstitutional act of telling a certain group of people who have the right to worship as they see fit.

You speak in generalities. Why don't you get more specific in what you mean by the Vatican "deciding how the U.S. should run?" This thread is,
quite frankly, about the Catholic Church resisting the federal governments directive telling the Catholic Church how they should "run". Are you
attempting to use subterfuge and make it appear as if it is the other way around? That would be foolish since you clearly believe that you have some
sort of lawful authority to tell religious organizations how they should "run". So, why don't you explain to all of us how it is the Vatican is
dictating U.S. policy.

If Congress or the IRS most imprudently attempt to impose some kind of tax on the Vatican (a sovereign state in a foreign land) for simply being a
religion, the law is on the Vatican's side, not the federal government, and you think seniority has nothing to do with it? The Vatican has dealt
with all sorts of people sitting on thrones, with pretenders to the throne, with democracies, with dictatorships, and totalitarian regimes. You think
their long history in dealing with governments has no bearing in this matter? Think again.

You added nothing to the discussion but anger and cliches... I get it your a super atheist and the church is bad blah blah blah.

I'm not catholic, personally I think the people responsible for covering up or molesting children should meet their maker. But they were sins of
humans and have no bearing what so ever on the message of Jesus (which is what the catholic church is suppose to be about). Did you say all of
congress is evil and pedophiles because what Mark Foley did? No because it's a dumb argument.

And if you don't think evil is a very big part of human nature your blind, naive and idealistic at best. Look at our overcrowded prisons for
inspiration... Oh yea and hitler, Mao, Stalin, etc. just misunderstood guys?!

Wrong again, I'm not an atheist nor have I ever been. Although I would like to point out that half of the evil examples that you used to defend your
argument are and/or were Catholics. Namely Mark Foley and Hitler, go figure.

Furthermore, the Congressional leaders didn't sit there and play three card monte with known pedophiles in their mists either but the Catholic Church
did and if I'm not mistaken, they also aided Hitler during the war.

As far as I'm concerned, the Catholic Church is not a reliable source for understanding the message brought to us by Jesus but rather, they are in
the business of controlling people and their weapon of choice is fear and ignorance. Almost reminds you of the GOP, doesn't it.

Yes sir! Any organization that can raise money to push an agenda and has a tax exempt status should lose it -PRONTO! Having said that, religious
organizations have been given these guidelines before they are given a tax exempt status.

So in other words, in regards to tyranny, what's good for the gander is good for the goose? I hope that you remember your comment the day they come
after your ethical belief system.

I'm not delusional so I have nothing to worry about. There is no tyranny here except on the churches part they seem to forget that people even women
have rights in this country. And if they want to deny people those rights then maybe it's time they pack their bags and get out.

I'm not arguing whether the separation of church and state appears anywhere in our constitution or the Declaration of Independence. I'm well aware
of that. Thomas Jefferson never wrote it in, but he clearly didn't want religion to control government. That's another topic altogether.

I really don't think many people in the United States would want a government to be controlled by a select religion. I mean the United States was
established because people wanted to be free from the control by the church of England (Jefferson's concern). If you believe religion should
dictate government policy, than maybe you should pay more attention on how religion controls all aspects of life in the middle east.

Having said that, I'm talking about this law.

The law against churches intervening in political campaigns was passed by the US Congress in 1954. Since then, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS)
has been successful in using the law to revoke the tax-exempt status of only one church: the Church at Pierce Creek in Binghamton, NY, which had
placed an advertisement in USA Today and the Washington Times rebuking Bill Clinton four days before the 1992 presidential election.

This goes way deeper than the Catholic Church. The true intent by Obama is clearly to start the process of removing the separation of Church and
State, along with freedom of thought and belief. Even those who are not Christian or Catholic should be angry about what Obama is attempting.
Something important to you may be next on the radical progressives list.

Yes, very well said. Take for instance Native American Indians, they are all exempted from Obamacare,
as are Muslims. And Scientology also. And this is without a waiver. They are in the very legislation exempt.

Yet for some reason, other religions are not.

And yes, we are all on the list, just in what order...?

It's all part of the divide and conquer strategy. Sadly this method works on those not alert to what is being done to them or how they are being
used. This has nothing at all to do with Women and their rights, it's an attempt to remove freedoms one at a time "for our own good" by people who
would control us all.

Again, your spot on Blaine. I am a woman, and am shocked by the ignorance displayed
by those who claim women are entitled to contraceptives covered under insurance.

And even further shocked that the Federal Government needs to provide this,
by way of further taxation on the people!

People ignore this at their own peril. Even the Atheists should be against this form of control coming from the Alinsky / Marxist crowd.

Spot on again. I think they have been sold a bridge to no where, under the guise of
a free rainbow.

Obama is a hater of all things Christian. He makes this clear in a couple of his speeches when using examples. So deductive reasoning directs us to a
hidden muslim faith with a twist. The twist is the question but there is no doubt he is issuing in a very dark power that he represents which may be
ancient and is most certainly malevolent.

I know I'm biased when it comes to the subject of nwo, just as others are biased towards religious groups, but I don't see how anyone can look at the
multitude of evidence and still not see them for what they are. And no, I don't think you're delusional, maybe a little oblivious, but who isn't.

And for the record, I'm not partial to some of the Catholic organizations either. I think some of them have been corrupted down to their core, but I
am not going to be prejudice towards all of them based on the actions of a few.

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