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But my whole point being, while the Ukrainians are so desperate for international sympathy, would they really commit such not only stupid but also terrible as hell mistake?

The crowds on the street (a small minority of the population) is a diverse group. There are some very unsavoury people among them. But the people attacking (Jewish) minorities don't even have to be part of the protestors, they could just be thugs exploiting the relative lawlessness of the situation. I wouldn't read too much into it, for now at least, because unfortunately it's not rare for a Jew to face racism or even physical violence in the large cities of Europe (broadly defined to include the Ukraine).

"He has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to
the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free". ~ Luke 4:18

"Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

I believe no one really is surprised by this development. Let's say no people really want to face the reality that this may trigger a new Crimean War. And a new Crimean War be confined in the Black Sea. This, is gonna be a world war if it breaks out, ending the prosperity we are now enjoying.

Let's face this: Putin won't step back, but the world of freedom should not neither. Yulia is (I hope this is not a "was") maintaining friendly terms with both the east and the west. Let's hope she can be the angel resolving this crisis. But with the west not showing its muscle, I really don't have high hope in it.

As I know, in Kiev and Western Ukraine, there is no mood of celebration. Outlook is really not bright as you guys have pointed out (western support being elusive), and they are still mourning for the lost souls.

You guys have update on the fate of the 5000 riot policemen? As you all know the whole riot police force being deployed in the event is now disbanded by the provisional government, so are they just reassigned or they simply lose their jobs? Or if they really are fired, would they face even worse fate, like facing criminal charges? I hope the new government would be the warm and also wise decision to show leniency to them. Seriously you cannot blame them for the bloodshed. It's the deposed regime should be held solely responsible, not those frontline troopers. I agree that the riot police force must be disbanded, but those officers should be reassigned in stead of being fired. They are just following orders, and it is not their responsibility to judge. They should be retained in the police force, but with this incident being recorded in their files. They are given a test of whether disapproving an unlawful order from the top brass, and they fail the test. It's just bad luck, I know. With such record they can probably forget about promotion, but at least keep them in the police force. They are just performing police duty back then as assigned.

In terms of single nations, the only people who can really "go to war" with Russia (with a reasonable chance of success) are basically the US and China. China won't be getting involved for obvious reasons, and the US people are largely of the opinion "Fuck it, we don't live there" after the wars of the past two decades (mostly Iraq and Afghanistan).

So that leaves a cooperative effort by multiple nations: Basically all the usual suspects have their own problems to deal with and the odds of a successful "Alright, let's all go to war to defend the Ukranian people" is HIGHLY unlikely. Especially because the last few "let's all work together to make the world a better place through bombing and shooting shit" endeavors were flops where, at most, a token force was sent by most nations. Nah, at best we'll get a bunch of un-enforced sanctions, just like we always do.

And say what you will about him as a human being, but Putin is smart. He knows politics. All he has to do is avoid going TOO overt ("Oh, it is just extremist groups that we aren't involved with but will totally work with in the future") and everyone can pretend it is "just a few bad seeds" (just like when the protest groups were full of horrible assholes) and turn a blind eye to it. Because it is in EVERYONE'S best interest to believe the lie. Well, not so much the Ukraine, but everyone else.

It is just like with the whole "The US spies on everyone" crap from a little while back. Nobody with half a brain cell should have been surprised. Of COURSE we spy on everyone. And everyone spies on us. But once it was made public, people had to react and pretend they cared. Same thing is going to happen here. Everyone is going to know that the various armed militia groups rocking the Febreeze on various ethnicities are backed by superpowers (mostly Russia), but nobody will be willing to look too deeply (publicly).

And before anyone says "the journalists will expose it!": Look at what just happened in the Ukraine. All the media cared about was "Innocent freedom fighters are being persecuted" and never cared enough to dig deeper into what made up said freedom fighters. And anyone who did was basically ignored or dismissed ("Of course there will be bad groups involved, it is a revolution"). Ironically, I suspect only the Fox Newses of the world will give a shit about Russia being involved and they'll be dismissed as warmongering dicks (and it will be true). In a decade people will study this and "uncover the truth", but not while it will make a difference and not to a degree that the ordinary folk will care.

WOW I am cynical.

Steam: Gundato
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If you want me on either service, I suggest PMing me here first to let me know who you are.

In terms of single nations, the only people who can really "go to war" with Russia (with a reasonable chance of success) are basically the US and China. China won't be getting involved for obvious reasons, and the US people are largely of the opinion "Fuck it, we don't live there" after the wars of the past two decades (mostly Iraq and Afghanistan).

So that leaves a cooperative effort by multiple nations: Basically all the usual suspects have their own problems to deal with and the odds of a successful "Alright, let's all go to war to defend the Ukranian people" is HIGHLY unlikely. Especially because the last few "let's all work together to make the world a better place through bombing and shooting shit" endeavors were flops where, at most, a token force was sent by most nations. Nah, at best we'll get a bunch of un-enforced sanctions, just like we always do.

And say what you will about him as a human being, but Putin is smart. He knows politics. All he has to do is avoid going TOO overt ("Oh, it is just extremist groups that we aren't involved with but will totally work with in the future") and everyone can pretend it is "just a few bad seeds" (just like when the protest groups were full of horrible assholes) and turn a blind eye to it. Because it is in EVERYONE'S best interest to believe the lie. Well, not so much the Ukraine, but everyone else.

Sounds very familiar. Is this called the Appeasement Policy in the 1930s?

I mean, Russia is now claiming the right to protect "overseas Russians", back then Nazi claims that it should protect "overseas Germans". And you know, all Britain, France and the USA were saying "Nazi? WFC."

Sounds very familiar. Is this called the Appeasement Policy in the 1930s?

I mean, Russia is now claiming the right to protect "overseas Russians", back then Nazi claims that it should protect "overseas Germans". And you know, all Britain, France and the USA were saying "Nazi? WFC."

1. Nice G-Bomb :p
2. Makes sense, history tends to repeat itself, and we are still in that "Well, the last war was really crappy, let's avoid another one" phase.

Steam: Gundato
PSN: Gundato
If you want me on either service, I suggest PMing me here first to let me know who you are.

2. Makes sense, history tends to repeat itself, and we are still in that "Well, the last war was really crappy, let's avoid another one" phase.

That's one of the two only great legacies Nazi left us: autobahn, and the horrible lesson to deter us from engaging in another World War. Seriously, I always believe that it's this lesson, not nuclear weapon, which drives us away from any thought of declaring war among true powers.

But Crimea is too important for the world of freedom. For Ukraine, it's no brainer. You think Ukraine's already terrible economy can survive for its country being reduced to a landlock nation? Plus...... Okay you know what I am talking about, I don't want to be banned for speaking against any nation. But Ukraine is not a buffer, it is the first and last line of defence. I am not making drivel here. Crimea is a territory of sovereign Ukraine and this fact is not open to a second intrepretation.

We will know by the end of next week to know which direction it will take. Russia as announced officially that as a direct response to a change of regime of Ukraine, it is gonna conduct military exercises at the Ukraine's doorstep. I seriously hope that you are right, no one really want a world war.

That's one of the two only great legacies Nazi left us: autobahn, and the horrible lesson to deter us from engaging in another World War. Seriously, I always believe that it's this lesson, not nuclear weapon, which drives us away from any thought of declaring war among true powers.

Rockets, Godwin's Law, confirmation of a lot of REALLY fucked up shit in science and "science", Israel (sort of), and SPACE NAZIS!!!!!!

And nah, it is the nukes. People are stupid. They think they can win a land war or blow stuff up. But nukes are the great equalizer: Even a small nation can wipe out a large one, albeit at the cost of the known world.

But Crimea is too important for the world of freedom. For Ukraine, it's no brainer. You think Ukraine's already terrible economy can survive for its country being reduced to a landlock nation? Plus...... Okay you know what I am talking about, I don't want to be banned for speaking against any nation. But Ukraine is not a buffer, it is the first and last line of defence. I am not making drivel here. Crimea is a territory of sovereign Ukraine and this fact is not open to a second intrepretation.

I'll admit, my knowledge of the history of the Ukraine and European history (with respect to it) is limited, but even if Russia completely swallowed it the border would still be in "Eastern Europe" (outside of Poland, and, well, yeah). What am I missing?

We will know by the end of next week to know which direction it will take. Russia as announced officially that as a direct response to a change of regime of Ukraine, it is gonna conduct military exercises at the Ukraine's doorstep. I seriously hope that you are right, no one really want a world war.

Military exercises at the border are the international way of feeling someone out.

Steam: Gundato
PSN: Gundato
If you want me on either service, I suggest PMing me here first to let me know who you are.

"Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

Looks like we are seeing the next generation of charity, financing of paramilitary groups, and probably scammers.

Ostensibly this is to fund relief efforts and is one of the great ways that internet moneys can be used to bypass bank fees and sanctions and the like to help the people on the ground. In practice, Reddit has basically tracked this to going to some guy's personal account (hopefully he is actually helping people with it), the protest groups have a lot of really fucked up aspects to it, and this is just going to be another nail in the coffin of bitcoin as "But Terrorism!" is now a card that WILL be played.

Steam: Gundato
PSN: Gundato
If you want me on either service, I suggest PMing me here first to let me know who you are.

You think Ukraine's already terrible economy can survive for its country being reduced to a landlock nation?

You might want to double-check your maps.

Originally Posted by squirrel

Ukraine is not a buffer, it is the first and last line of defence.

Against what? The 'evil Soviet Empire'? Please. For the last two decades the Russians have been poked, taunted and mocked by the continued expansion of the EU and NATO in to Eastern Europe, a policy Western powers in the early 1990s explicitly said they would not pursue.

"He has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to
the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free". ~ Luke 4:18

I know what you are saying. Right now the focus of public media is Crimea. But you seriously think Russia can conclude just by claiming Crimea? Either it's the Crimea and the whole Eastern and Southern Ukraine or nothing.

Right now Russia is claiming protection of Russians, next it will claim "protection" of the whole Slav...... Wait a minute, it seems I get the chronology wrong. Russia has claimed to be protector of Slav since 1999 NATO strike on Serb......

Originally Posted by Lethe

Some choppers owned by somebody flying from somewhere to somewhere else.

While you guys are here, any news about 4A Games (they are in Kiev)? Their facebook updates didn't really show much. Hopefully the situation will resolve soon or reduced to tense debate.

Their engine is really much more solid than the powerful yet buggy as hell X-Ray. I exactly recall that when the first time launching Clear Sky, once entering the game after menu, the mouse became unresponsive, and I was not alone on GSC's official forum, I had to wait the second patch (which was the third patch if you include the first patch of CIS version). Can't believe that the two engines were developed by the same team under different employers.

"Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

I know that CNN's map seems a bit misleading as it colors the oblasts with Russian population from 25-74% in red - those with less than half population being Russians should be safe, right? You are wrong. You don't understand Russia.

Of course, if it feels unchallenged (NATO scares as hell wants to stay out of this mess, its military commanders publicly announced that they would be incapable to response to any Russia's hostile military action against Ukraine. I am speechless. Seriously, what kind of soldiers are they?!), it may soon declare to be protector of the whole Slav. So let me see, Ukraine, White Russia, Poland, Czech, Slovakia, Serbia......

Poor Ukrainians, I hope they stay strong but now it is a great possibility they cannot make this through. Free from oppression for a brief period of two decades and it may end just like that.