Posted by rangerup on 12/11/2012 9:24:00 PM (view original):Coaches are more important that most people think. They have an affect on an individual game level that is hard to quantify but is there. An appropriate coaching staff at the ML level can be the difference in winning 5 more games a season, which can mean a lot. I rarely go below 14M in budgeting and make sure to get good coaches.

Posted by damag on 12/11/2012 6:31:00 PM (view original):But you have to wait till the end of the signing period to lowball them successfully, right?

Yes and it's a gamble. You can still be rejected.

So the strategy, then, would be to budget 6 million for coaches. Throw the X million you save into whatever you want. Wait till the end of the signing period and lowball as many good coaches as possible, knowing that there is a pile of good coaches who never get hired because that's how the system works.

How big, then, is the risk that none of your cherry picking works, all offers get rejected, you get to the deadline and the system assigns you some talentless bottom of the barrel coaching?

It would seem based on all of this that budgeting a good amount of money for coaching is simply an effort to sign coaches early and avoid very poor coaching.

Posted by damag on 12/11/2012 6:31:00 PM (view original):But you have to wait till the end of the signing period to lowball them successfully, right?

Yes and it's a gamble. You can still be rejected.

So the strategy, then, would be to budget 6 million for coaches. Throw the X million you save into whatever you want. Wait till the end of the signing period and lowball as many good coaches as possible, knowing that there is a pile of good coaches who never get hired because that's how the system works.

How big, then, is the risk that none of your cherry picking works, all offers get rejected, you get to the deadline and the system assigns you some talentless bottom of the barrel coaching?

It would seem based on all of this that budgeting a good amount of money for coaching is simply an effort to sign coaches early and avoid very poor coaching.

IIRC, I've failed to sign a coach a couple of times. So my success rate is probably over 95%. However, it's a little nerve-wracking when no one will accept your lowball offer. The easier route is to budget 8m and have some wiggle room. Especially if you're not sure you'll be able to check in every half cycle on the last 16-24 hours of coach hiring.

It just depends on how much risk you're willing to take for that extra 2m.

And, FWIW, if your BL team is full of 5th-8th year players, poor coaching isn't going to do any real damage. It's a bigger deal if you have a young/old team.

Posted by rangerup on 12/11/2012 9:24:00 PM (view original):Coaches are more important that most people think. They have an affect on an individual game level that is hard to quantify but is there. An appropriate coaching staff at the ML level can be the difference in winning 5 more games a season, which can mean a lot. I rarely go below 14M in budgeting and make sure to get good coaches.

I haven't done any spreadsheets, but have tweaked seasons enough to see the difference in my teams. I believe that they aid on a game by game basis, as well as an in season basis, ie, increasing or decreasing ratings among players. I am a big believer in the coaching staff and think WIS puts more into that segment of the game than most players give credit for.

Posted by damag on 12/11/2012 6:31:00 PM (view original):But you have to wait till the end of the signing period to lowball them successfully, right?

Yes and it's a gamble. You can still be rejected.

I've had success offering good ML level coaches (who are asking for the usual $1.6M, $1.7M, up to $2M contracts) contracts worth between $1M and $1.25M right away. I don't wait until the end of the signing period. Of course I get outbid if anybody ever offers those guys a real contract. And, like anybody else who gets coaches on the cheap, you don't get the top 2 or 3 coaches avail. I know I could prob get them for a bit cheaper if I did wait, but I prefer not to. I generally budget $8-10M for coaches and, when all is said and done, I nearly always end up with above average coaching staff.

I agrew ith what mongoos just said. You can lowball them in the 1-1.3m range and they will sign well before the end of coach hiring, assuming no one else is bidding on them.

As for rangerup's statement, Admin has specifically said that coaches don't affect performance, only development, so other than the bench coach strategy when your ML coach is ejected, I don't think it makes a difference in games. Either way, rangerup has no evidence whatsoever that his claim is true. Anecdotal evidence is worthless in this game.

There is no evidence to the contrary either though. It is whether you believe what admin says, or what your own experience tells you. Even with admin claiming they only affect development, I find it absurd that a coaching staff would not affect daily performance (as my experience tells me it does). Why not just leave the staff at home and not even bring them to the ballpark then? WIS is trying to make this game close to 'real life' baseball, no?