Well, crap...RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman (Read 289 times)

I'm sure you understand, Spaniel. I'd say the good ones are given a natural position, as it seems to me that anyone who is highly skilled in a field that's in the public eye will always be given a more favorable social status.

No, I do not understand why we elevate a group of people who, as a collective, exhibit extraordinarily high levels of bad behavior, narcissism, alcoholism, and drug addiction. I find it sad that convincing acting is enough to get people to look past that.

I watched The Last Samurai again recently. I liked Tom Cruise in that role. But he is a piece of work as a person, if he walked into the room I would ignore him.

Not an actor, but I ran into Dennis Rodman a few years ago. Pathetic excuse for a human being. Crashed a relative's wedding, made a scene, and spent the rest of the night going through the hotel bar trying to get people to pay attention to him. And some people give him attention.

Bah humbug.

"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

No, I do not understand why we elevate a group of people who, as a collective, exhibit extraordinarily high levels of bad behavior, narcissism, alcoholism, and drug addiction. I find it sad that convincing acting is enough to get people to look past that.

I watched The Last Samurai again recently. I liked Tom Cruise in that role. But he is a piece of work as a person, if he walked into the room I would ignore him.

Not an actor, but I ran into Dennis Rodman a few years ago. Pathetic excuse for a human being. Crashed a relative's wedding, made a scene, and spent the rest of the night going through the hotel bar trying to get people to pay attention to him. And some people give him attention.

Bah humbug.

Hasty generalization, generalization from the particular, argument from outrage.

As a collective, I don't think actors are any worse than the general population. Their partying gets magnified by their status, and the ones who develop problems, we see in the tabloids. Which actor do you want to look at? I could make a long list of actors and actresses who haven't been busted, have not gone into rehab as far as I know, who treat their spouses and children well, and bust their asses to make a living and to be excellent at their crafts (it's not easy "pretending to be someone else" and making it believable). Off the top of my head: Alan Alda, Paul Newman, Robert Redford, Tom Hanks, Meryl Streep, Bill Cosby, Kevin Pollak, Tom Cruise, Gene Hackman, Julia Roberts, John Hamm, Sandra Bullock, Daniel Day Lewis, Ben Kingsley, Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner, Leonard Nimoy, William Shatner, James Doohan, George Takei, Walter Koenig, DeForest Kelly, Will Wheaton, John De Lancie, Nichelle Nichols, Majel Barrett, Armin Shimerman, etc. (oops, I'm revealing too much about my obsessions)

Just like in the general population, the young ones tend to party heartier than than the older ones, and there always some who can't kick it, or grow past it. Some had problems, then kicked it. But as a collective, I would say 99.9% of the Screen Actors Guild are just as normal as the local collective of construction workers or scientists and are just trying to make a living. It's rare one dies with a needle in their arm, or from an overdose. Just like in the general population. There are probably the same percentage of functional alcoholics and drug users as any given neighborhood. It's just that you don't hear much about your neighbors, as people still tend to keep things private (there are AA and NA meetings in the richest and poorest of towns). Celebrities on the other hand have a hard time keeping it so. Alcohol and cigarettes kill the most people out there. I've known people to die from both. I refuse to buy into the perception that just because my friend died of lung cancer due to smoking that he was some kind of narcissistic low-life who didn't deserve the position in life he enjoyed, and earned (because he was kind, loving, hard-working, an expert in his field, and about as generous as anyone I've ever known). Or if Phillip Seymour Hoffman couldn't kick an addiction and couldn't survive it that he was a worthless piece of crap. It doesn't negate his life and personhood as a whole.

Tom Cruise has given me nothing but good entertainment for a long time. He might have an uncommon religion, but as far as I can tell, the guy works his tail off, has never been busted, is clean, has never killed anyone, displays great enthusiasm for his work, generates a lot of money for his collaborators (which includes crew, writers, local economies in which he films, etc.). He's a licensed pilot, has raced cars, and has been nothing but a light in this society. A giver. A creator. He's added to the wealth of the nation. Paul Newman liked him. I'm sure I could nitpick him about some of the rumors about his marriages that pass through the tabloids. But that would just be nitpicking and sticking my nose where it doesn't belong (someone else's marriage).

Haven't met or know of a perfect person yet, and definitely have never seen one in the mirror (I spend hours looking into it, and still I have not been cleansed of the zits of sin--I need Soulasil)

Well jimmy, we'll just have to disagree. Granted you named some people I can't say anything bad about in that list (watch Star Trek much?)

However, your perception of the frequency of drug issues in the acting community...and 3rd/4th/5th marriages....and other issues...compared to the general population just doesn't mesh with mine. Barring hard data which I doubt exists, it's just a difference in perceptions.

"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

Well jimmy, we'll just have to disagree. Granted you named some people I can't say anything bad about in that list (watch Star Trek much?)

However, your perception of the frequency of drug issues in the acting community...and 3rd/4th/5th marriages....and other issues...compared to the general population just doesn't mesh with mine. Barring hard data which I doubt exists, it's just a difference in perceptions.

I've seen almost ALL the Treks from beginning to end. The only I one I petered out on was Enterprise. I don't have a transporter in the bathroom or anything like that (well, I guess a toilet is sort of a transporter).

I can see we have a different way of looking at this issue, but that makes for good discussion, as long as it doesn't get personal. it passes the time between runs.

Last word (ha!) on the marriage issue you brought up: I've been to lots of weddings, and about half of those marriages have ended in divorce. I know people who have been married 2-4 times. And these are good, outstanding, creative, hard-working , "clean" people. As far as I can tell, either these people had their fingers crossed behind their backs when giving their vows, or it's damn hard staying married. For at least 50% of the people, maybe more (but some survive). I don't view it as evil or sinful, just a fact of life. At least the ones who keep getting married keep trying to find love, and hopefully have one marriage that survives. But to be fully honest, it saddens me when friends get divorced. I'm sure it's a painful experience all-around, especially for the kids, if there are any. I believe divorce can happen to anyone. Sometimes, it comes out of the blue, and a partner who would never divorce, seemingly, gets blindsided by his or her spouse, and its over. People change.

I've seen almost ALL the Treks from beginning to end. The only I one I petered out on was Enterprise. I don't have a transporter in the bathroom or anything like that (well, I guess a toilet is sort of a transporter).

I can see we have a different way of looking at this issue, but that makes for good discussion, as long as it doesn't get personal. it passes the time between runs.

Last word (ha!) on the marriage issue you brought up: I've been to lots of weddings, and about half of those marriages have ended in divorce. I know people who have been married 2-4 times. And these are good, outstanding, creative, hard-working , "clean" people. As far as I can tell, either these people had their fingers crossed behind their backs when giving their vows, or it's damn hard staying married. For at least 50% of the people, maybe more (but some survive). I don't view it as evil or sinful, just a fact of life. At least the ones who keep getting married keep trying to find love, and hopefully have one marriage that survives. But to be fully honest, it saddens me when friends get divorced. I'm sure it's a painful experience all-around, especially for the kids, if there are any. I believe divorce can happen to anyone. Sometimes, it comes out of the blue, and a partner who would never divorce, seemingly, gets blindsided by his or her spouse, and its over. People change.

Personal? Nah, jimmy, you're a reasonable fellow. We don't always have to agree to get along.

I'm not going off on a tangent on the marriage issue. I used it in context of the entire Hollywood culture (it's not just the one think it's many things together). Yes you've been to weddings that have resulted in marriages not working but honestly it's hard to find Hollywood stars who are not on 3-4-5, period. And I never associated evil/sinful with that, to be clear. And yes, it can happen to anyone, and it's sad when it happens.

We're so far off the original topic, and I really care so little about it, nice chatting but I'm out of this one.

"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

What I don't understand is, when people use a defense of someone along these lines

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

or

We cannot know what it is like to walk in his shoes

does that mean they believe we are not entitled to judge anyone's actions, from the actor addict committing suicide, to the smoker blowing nicotine into his kids mouths, to the priest molesting kids, to the rapists and murderers?

What I don't understand is, when people use a defense of someone along these lines

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

or

We cannot know what it is like to walk in his shoes

does that mean they believe we are not entitled to judge anyone's actions, from the actor addict committing suicide, to the smoker blowing nicotine into his kids mouths, to the priest molesting kids, to the rapists and murderers?

No not at all. I believe we are always making judgments about everything in our awareness, sometimes consciously and much of the time unconsciously. It's natural, a survival mechanism. There's a difference between someone committing suicide and someone raping someone, killing someone, and abusing children. This thread was about Phillip Seymour Hoffman overdosing and not surviving and celebrating his acting (at first), not heinous (making a judgment here) acts of violation on others. I used "he or she who is without selfish acts cast the first stone" as an offense, not a defense, and in response to the use of "selfish acts", which felt to me like people kicking a corpse and calling it selfish. People are free to judge anything they want, as I am free. My response was an expression of a judgment I created about someone else's judgment. Sort of like hopping on the bandwagon of judgment but pointing mine at what was being said. Other's did the same to my words.

I think it's wise not to believe every judgment I make up without a bit of questioning and reasoning first. Many times, my judgments have been way off the mark, just nicking the surface, and without truly understanding the person, situation, history, what really happened, and so much more. It's as if I believe my belief can really define e.g. the vastness of another person and his or her life. But when I challenge it, I realize quite often, I know very little, and my belief has nothing to do with anything going on in current reality, and everything to do with the past, which is just a memory twirling in my brain (so essentially, I'm judging my scant, flooby memory most of the time). The core belief "if I believe it, it must be true" must be avoided as a lifestyle choice. It's too lofty, and I'm afraid of such heights when there's nothing substantial propping me up. The eventually crash into the ground of reality is way too harsh from that high up. I know, I've been splattered by it too many times to count.

As Spaniel said: "We're so far off the original topic, and I really care so little about it, nice chatting but I'm out of this one." I'm going to have some fun and play follow the leader (Spaniel being the leader), and get back to the mundaneness of this pause between runs. Count some sheep, cuz I got too deep, made too much peep, and now it's time to sleep, and count sheep, and REM-reap..