Convert air support loiter abilities to cheaper single/double strafes?

IMO it would be better if most air abilities came in as directional strafes and were cheaper, instead of being the timed auto-targeting loiters. Gives you more control over your target, you can use the abilities more often, and its less punishing for you if they get shot down.

That said, you will miss more often than a computer with tracking would as is now, but I think that's less desirable for fair play. The sweeping mortar nerfs were under the logic of nerfing auto-attack power.

Comments

I wouldn't be upset to see skillplanez get dumpestered in exchange for strafes, but I'd be curious to see them overhauled into a support role (ie lower cost, lower damage and have their main draw being debuff infliction) rather than their current area denial/click to win one.

I like the idea of status effects and what not in favor of less raw damage. They should be support abilities not assault makers/breakers. Ost assault support has the pinning loiter and its just broken in team games, let alone the il_2 and its new found suppression.

Well at least it can't wipe several full hp squads anymore, but I agree. Air support should be buff/debuff support abilities that supplement an assault or defense rather than just completely denying a quarter of the map to all enemy vehicles or infantry with the click of a button.

Strafes are way worse (almost useless) than loiter abilities. No auto-search and they don't deal enough damage to kill heavier targets in a single run. The enemy can repair everything while you have to wait to call your second strafe. Loiter abilities are a larger thread to all unit types which is in my opinion a good balance with the fact that they can be shot down.

> @SneakEye said:
> No auto-search and they don't deal enough damage to kill heavier targets in a single run.

Yeah exactly, those are the reasons to get rid of loiters. If you're the kind of person who wants abilities in the game where the computer does most of the work for you, then we aren't going to agree on anything anytime soon.

@SkysTheLimit said:
Yeah exactly, those are the reasons to get rid of loiters. If you're the kind of person who wants abilities in the game where the computer does most of the work for you, then we aren't going to agree on anything anytime soon.

Don't get me wrong, I do like abilities that require the skill of the player. But I think that strafes are just to easy to dodge.

@SneakEye Oh well that's a fair point, but plane travel time, initial response time, projectile angle, ROF etc. are all stats that can be modified to make them more useable. With the loiter versions, you can edit stats all you want, you still might have an auto-targeting ability getting the finishing blow in a tank fight.

I should say the OST anti infantry loiter isn't problematic for me at all; its SCAS, Hawkers, P47s etc. that id like to see converted.

Imo off maps shouldn't be a substitute for skill and AA isn't reliable enough for that to be an excuse. Waiting for munitions to obliterate the enemy with minimal input is just as bad if not worse as doing the same thing with fuel (king tiger for example)

I don't want to expend any munitions on something that misses completely.
Strafes are too easy to dodge.
Loiters punish loitering. Clustering your troops is bad play and should be punished (hence the word "cluster-f*cked"). Off-maps are the best way to do it. If you don't like them, invest in air-defenses or get your troops out of the area ASAP.

@PanzerFutz As I have already explained in this thread, strafe response times can be adjusted. AA is not entirely consistent (it's better than it used to be) and some factions have it better than others. Also all of the Aircaft loiters can fire at units WELL outside the range. It all depends on when the plane starts tracking a tank.

And air based off-maps are not at all the best answer to clustering, what are you talking about? The most problematic ones target 1 or 2 individual vehicles for the kill. Artillery pieces/barrages are by far the best for clustered units.

@panzerfutz most of the game has minions costs that can amount to nothing. Those mines yuu set up might just sit there, that snare you fired might hit too soon, before your AT gun fired meaning no snare. The grenades y oh throw might end up doing nothing because the enemy moved. That's the game. You can't have something like Loiters that are omnipowerful (il-2 loiter and stuka MG loiter 100% shut down infantry play in the area for duration) without a WORKING hard counter. AA is not good enough for abilities of that magnitude so the logical progression is raise the skill cap on them. If you have to predict and lead your enemy to deal damage its OK for it to half health a tank. If you click in a general area once and the computer does the rest it's not OK. Being able to lock up infantry our demolish tank just because you waited 4 minutes for the munitions and nothing else is bad

@SkysTheLimit I didn't say airstrike off-maps were the best, I think artillery off-maps are better. In fact, if it were up to me, I'd get rid of the smoke/flares so arty strikes came in without warning the enemy, like in real life.

That is my point: I want the game to reflect reality not just be a good "capture the flag" jerk-off. Air power is hard to stop and artillery is almost impossible to stop. If you think it's too powerful, the answer is to make it less effective (debuff it) or make it cost more in munitions, not get rid of it altogether. World War 2 airstrikes were notoriously inaccurate so I have no problem with debuffing them. I just don't want to see them removed because you don't want to spend any resources on air defence.

And yes, AA guns were pretty weak in WW2 because they were hand cranked and not radar controlled. It was up to the skill of the operator so, a green AA unit should be spraying the sky with lead and rarely hitting anything. A 3-star veteran, on the other hand, should be lethal - hitting anything that comes in range and denying the enemy the use of air power in that region. That way the opposing player has to hunt down and destroy the veteran AA unit if he wants to use airstrikes.