I dont think Blizzard fully looked into what would actually happen with the item upgrade system. I know in my guild, a lot of us are completely geared in HT14 with several items fully upgraded AND on track to be close to fully upgraded heroic gear AND have the valor cap for 5.2. That alone will make the next tier easier to clear and the possibility of upgrading each piece of gear as you get it which will just snowball the ilvl's even further.

Love how any feature that offers even a 0.0001% boost to someone's character power becomes "mandatory" and "necessary".

I only run LFR, due to work schedule, raiding is out of the question (4pm-12am, Mon-Fri = Not gonna work). I got my Relic of Xuen and my Sha-Touched Axe both upgraded. That is all I plan to do, cause nothing else will be sticking around as long frankly.

The feasibility of upgrading all your gear, as the mandatory crowd will argue, is out of the question. It takes just short of 6 MONTHS to do that. The only time we might see a content cycle that long (that you also won't have other things to spend JP on) with the timeframe they are working under in MoP, may be between Siege of Orgrimmar and Expansion #5.

5.2 rolls out. VP is downgraded to JP (as the usual happens every new tier). Are you gonna spend VP on Upgrades of your Normal Epics from your first week of raiding, or saving up for the new 5.2 Faction VP items? Right there, you can likely void 4-6 weeks (or more, depending on slots) of VP gains from being applicable to upgrading. By then, if you are "serious about raiding", you will be plugging away in Heroics, you aren't gonna spend a drop of VP on anything that isn't BiS, which you may have little to none of yet, depending on level of progress.

People arguing about "mandatory work we are forced to do to be better". It's a GAME. Have some FUN in it, and don't be all about the math and numbers. You'll realize how much more enjoyable it can be, when you don't try to consume every ounce of content immediately.

Games are not necessarily "easier" today. You are just a better player.
It takes more now to impress many gamers than it did 2-5 years ago, because so much has already been seen and done.
Many players expect to be wow'd with every release of a beloved franchise.
These are generally NOT the fault of the developers, but the fault of many players over-hyping and/or setting expectations too high.

Love how any feature that offers even a 0.0001% boost to someone's character power becomes "mandatory" and "necessary".

To the extent that increasing player power is felt to be necessary, upgrading will be felt to be necessary.

To the extent that increasing player power isn't felt to be necessary, the feature can be removed from the game and it will not be missed.

"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson

Love how any feature that offers even a 0.0001% boost to someone's character power becomes "mandatory" and "necessary".

The funny part is that most of them spend so much time on their gear, that they don't spend enough time figuring strats to progress faster. Better strategies and playing is much more "necessary" than minor gear upgrades. But shhhhhh - no one will admit that. All they care about is maximizing that ilvl number...

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 05:22 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Osmeric

To the extent that increasing player power is felt to be necessary, upgrading will be felt to be necessary.

To the extent that increasing player power isn't felt to be necessary, the feature can be removed from the game and it will not be missed.

That is only true when there is only one way to progress. Currently, there are so many ways to do it. So there is no need to remove features.

Love how any feature that offers even a 0.0001% boost to someone's character power becomes "mandatory" and "necessary".

I only run LFR, due to work schedule, raiding is out of the question (4pm-12am, Mon-Fri = Not gonna work). I got my Relic of Xuen and my Sha-Touched Axe both upgraded. That is all I plan to do, cause nothing else will be sticking around as long frankly.

The feasibility of upgrading all your gear, as the mandatory crowd will argue, is out of the question. It takes just short of 6 MONTHS to do that. The only time we might see a content cycle that long (that you also won't have other things to spend JP on) with the timeframe they are working under in MoP, may be between Siege of Orgrimmar and Expansion #5.

5.2 rolls out. VP is downgraded to JP (as the usual happens every new tier). Are you gonna spend VP on Upgrades of your Normal Epics from your first week of raiding, or saving up for the new 5.2 Faction VP items? Right there, you can likely void 4-6 weeks (or more, depending on slots) of VP gains from being applicable to upgrading. By then, if you are "serious about raiding", you will be plugging away in Heroics, you aren't gonna spend a drop of VP on anything that isn't BiS, which you may have little to none of yet, depending on level of progress.

People arguing about "mandatory work we are forced to do to be better". It's a GAME. Have some FUN in it, and don't be all about the math and numbers. You'll realize how much more enjoyable it can be, when you don't try to consume every ounce of content immediately.

THANK YOU. I'm so sick of people bitching constantly about "WAAAH, I'M REQUIRED TO DO THIS, WAAAH" for the stupid item upgrades. Bunch of tryhards.

Min/maxing is NOT REQUIRED for raiding unless you're a top 100 competitive guild, and if you're in that you should be used to maxing out.

VP/JP upgrades are supposed to be a valor dump so that if you already have all the valor gear you need, you can still progress your character by upgrading the gear slightly.

The whole "it gives me power so I'm 100% required to do this" mentality is killing the game.

I swear if Blizzard added an item in the game that increased all your stats by 20, but to be able to get it you had to kill every boss in the current tier 5 times, and it cost 30k gold, people would bitch and whine about it being 'mandatory'.

edit: I completely agree with the complaints about upgrading pvp gear.

Love how any feature that offers even a 0.0001% boost to someone's character power becomes "mandatory" and "necessary".

I only run LFR, due to work schedule, raiding is out of the question (4pm-12am, Mon-Fri = Not gonna work). I got my Relic of Xuen and my Sha-Touched Axe both upgraded. That is all I plan to do, cause nothing else will be sticking around as long frankly.

The feasibility of upgrading all your gear, as the mandatory crowd will argue, is out of the question. It takes just short of 6 MONTHS to do that. The only time we might see a content cycle that long (that you also won't have other things to spend JP on) with the timeframe they are working under in MoP, may be between Siege of Orgrimmar and Expansion #5.

5.2 rolls out. VP is downgraded to JP (as the usual happens every new tier). Are you gonna spend VP on Upgrades of your Normal Epics from your first week of raiding, or saving up for the new 5.2 Faction VP items? Right there, you can likely void 4-6 weeks (or more, depending on slots) of VP gains from being applicable to upgrading. By then, if you are "serious about raiding", you will be plugging away in Heroics, you aren't gonna spend a drop of VP on anything that isn't BiS, which you may have little to none of yet, depending on level of progress.

People arguing about "mandatory work we are forced to do to be better". It's a GAME. Have some FUN in it, and don't be all about the math and numbers. You'll realize how much more enjoyable it can be, when you don't try to consume every ounce of content immediately.

PvPers feel obligated to do it. And they actually can get their gear maxed before a new season begins. Albeit it being barely.

Forcing people to keep on playing like that is an entirely wrong approach.

PvPers feel obligated to do it. And they actually can get their gear maxed before a new season begins. Albeit it being barely.

Forcing people to keep on playing like that is an entirely wrong approach.

I believe that the primary argument against having pvp upgrades (or at least upgrades to current season conq gear) is that the exceptional players that are able to gain very high ratings get far more conq points per week than other players, which means they effectively max out much sooner plus they have upgrades. These powered up characters can now make it more difficult for other players to break into higher brackets due to how the pvp system works. Basically, the upgrade system gives an even greater advantage to the elite pvp players.

I don't really see a huge advantage when it comes to pve, unless you say the advantage goes to those who have raided/had characters longer, but it is only natural for you to have some sort of advantage from actually playing the game.

Why do people continue to state that the game 'forces' you to do this? Is there some sort of sliding scale where everyone determines what the game 'forces' you to do in order to actually play the game? According to the argument that you are forced to play because a way of getting a marginal upgrade exists, shouldn't i also complain that I am forced to pvp because I am not just gived a full set of epic pvp gear without pvping? Complaining about being forced to play because you 'need' these upgrades is like running a marathon and then complaining about the last 500 feet, getting to the point where you really even have anything worth upgrading means you have already been 'forced' to play quite a bit.

Blessed is the day. And the one Who destroys the day.
Blessed is this ring of fire In which we live
Blessed are those who stand still In their confusion.
Blessed is the field as it burns.
Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell

I believe that the primary argument against having pvp upgrades (or at least upgrades to current season conq gear) is that the exceptional players that are able to gain very high ratings get far more conq points per week than other players,

What you believe is wrong. The primary argument against it is that PvP should be equal and fair at all times. And more farming for gear goes in the exact opposite direction of that goal.

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 07:44 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Venant

shouldn't i also complain that I am forced to pvp because I am not just gived a full set of epic pvp gear without pvping?

Please, start doing that. If blizzard listens then PvP can finally be good and equal for everyone without having to farm like a madman.

but Ive spent the last 72 hours upgrading about, 6 piece or so of heroic gear, and not once did I get a single ilvl from it, I know 1 gear ilvl is .25 over all or something, but still I dont feel like I see a physically change to it

Anything that increases character power, should be done by any raider that is worth a spot.
So yes item upgrades are mandatory for those who care, those who dont upgrade their gear are slacking, they might aswell not take a heroic item of the same slot as they have a normal item "as it is just a few ilvls higher". Upgrade= upgrade, hence why pve-ers got conq items at start as they were better then the 463 dungeon blues.
Sure ppl killed bosses in less gear then we have now, but there are different amounts of skill, and ppl have been playing together for various times, some are guildies for 1 week, others for 5 years, the later will know how the tank moves in a certain situation= dps gain for melee.

As we aren't all in guilds full of top 50 material players, every single gearupgrade will bring you closer to a kill (provided that you have a working strategy). If you dont get these upgrades you are holding your guild back.

What you believe is wrong. The primary argument against it is that PvP should be equal and fair at all times. And more farming for gear goes in the exact opposite direction of that goal.

The problem here is that the game was not designed from the ground up as a pvp game, therefore pvp will apparently always be tied to gear. Sometimes I wonder why there is so much interest in pvp when it comes to WoW, there are many superior platforms designed around the idea of facing off against other players. They are never going to balance pvp in this game the way you will get balance in a game like Starcraft, so what is it that is so much more appealing about WoW than SC where you can perform many more APM? What is more appealing about wow than say, a FPS where it comes down to hours of honing fine reflexes to play competitively?

Blessed is the day. And the one Who destroys the day.
Blessed is this ring of fire In which we live
Blessed are those who stand still In their confusion.
Blessed is the field as it burns.
Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell

Anything that increases character power, should be done by any raider that is worth a spot.
So yes item upgrades are mandatory for those who care those who dont upgrade their gear are slacking, they might aswell not take a heroic item of the same slot as they have a normal item "as it is just a few ilvls higher". Upgrade= upgrade, hence why pve-ers got conq items at start as they were better then the 463 dungeon blues.
Sure ppl killed bosses in less gear then we have now, but there are different amounts of skill, and ppl have been playing together for various times, some are guildies for 1 week, others for 5 years, the later will know how the tank moves in a certain situation= dps gain for melee.

As we aren't all in guilds full of top 50 material players, every single gearupgrade will bring you closer to a kill (provided that you have a working strategy). If you dont get these upgrades you are holding your guild back.

You don't need extreme min/maxing in order to raid, and I'm sick of people who say this.

Originally Posted by Dvaldin

Blue post two hours ago confirms this is temporary and appears to indicate upgrade system will stay, while the rotation process between patches is in question.