Documentary Chronicles Life With Alibaba’s Jack Ma

Porter Erisman’s timing couldn’t be better. His documentary, “Crocodile in the Yangtze: the Alibaba Story,” has just been released for global digital distribution at the same time the Chinese e-commerce giant is preparing for what could be the largest tech IPO in history.

“Crocodile in the Yangtze” tells the story of how Alibaba founder Jack Ma transformed a 17-person startup working out of a small apartment to China’s first global Internet company, with 24,000 employees. Drawing on 200 hours of archival footage, the slightly hagiographic film covers 1995 to 2009, when Mr. Erisman—who had been the company’s vice president in charge of international marketing and corporate affairs—left the company to pursue other ventures, including making the film. (Mr. Ma stepped down as CEO of the company last May but continues to be executive chairman.)

The film’s title is based on something Mr. Erisman recalls Mr. Ma saying when Alibaba was battling with U.S. marketplace eBay for the dominant spot in China’s e-commerce market: “EBay is a shark in the ocean. We are a crocodile in the Yangtze River. If we fight in the ocean, we will lose. But if we fight in the river, we will win.”

Advertisement

The 75-minute film goes beyond the usual business documentary, opening with a scene in which Mr. Ma, dressed as a punk rocker, takes the stage at a 2009 company event to the opening theme from “The Lion King.” It also illustrates how Taobao, the company’s retail branch, won the market fight against eBay in China.

Porter Erisman

Courtesy Porter Erisman

“Could our inexperienced team of dreamers really stand up to U.S. Internet giants?” Mr. Erisman asks in the film. It turns out they could.

China Real Time Report sat down with the 44-year-old Denver native to talk about why he left the company, what Alibaba’s upcoming IPO means for the company and Jack Ma’s reception to the film. Edited excerpts.

Why did you make this film?

I really wanted to write a memoir, to explain to entrepreneurs and Westerners so they could understand what was going on on the ground in China. But another author had just sold a book on Jack Ma and Alibaba, so I decided to do a documentary. I want audiences to feel as if they are picked up and dropped into a Chinese Internet startup in 2000, and to see things through my eyes the way I saw it.

Why did you leave Alibaba in 2009?

I had been there for eight and a half years. I moved eight times in eight years and was on the road 50%of the time. I loved it, but I dedicated so much time – even in my free time I was thinking about it all the time. It was time for me to take a break.

Do you regret leaving when you did?

We had beaten eBay. Our business-to-business company (Alibaba.com) had gone public in Hong Kong. The market was really Alibaba’s to lose, so I felt it was a natural time for me to go and do something else. I like the startup creative phase. Even though I think Alibaba is just getting started. That’s the amazing thing. E-commerce in China – it’s just the beginning.

What did Jack Ma think of the film?

When I was at the company, I could always read his reaction. But this is the one time I really didn’t know what he was thinking. One interesting thing was that in the film I discuss a private conversation I had with him, after he laid off staff [in 2001, after the dot-com bubble bust]. He was really upset, his voice was shaking, and the first thing he said to me was, “Porter, do you think I’m a good person?” Our CEO, the one guy who seemed to have this unfailing self-confidence, was suddenly questioning himself. Later, he pointed that out as his favorite part. I couldn’t believe it.

Were there other reactions after that?

The film first came out in April 2012. I saw on my phone one day that there was a missed call from Jack. I was worried. But he invited me to show the film to Taobao employees at their 10-year anniversary.

What has been the overall reaction to the film?

As I’ve gone around the world showing the film, I’ve run into certain preconceptions. There were some people who think Alibaba only succeeded because they were protected by the government. But we were always pushing up against government. Jack had a saying: Be in love with the government, but don’t marry it. And in a sense, we were pushing up and not getting too close but trying to educate the government about the benefits e-commerce would bring to China.

How would you describe Jack Ma’s personality?

I can give you an anecdote. When we acquired Yahoo China, we were trying to expand into search engines, so I bought a book about Google. I read it, and I brought it to Jack and tried to hand it to him. He turned it away and said, “Porter, you should give it to someone else. I don’t want to read it because I might get too focused on what Google did and I want to innovate our own way.”

What do you think the upcoming IPO will be like?

One thing it will do is jolt business people in the West, making them aware of what’s happening on the ground in terms of e-commerce. The assumption was always that e-commerce would be slower to take off [in China] and lag behind the West, but what’s happened was that e-commerce was slower to take off, but once it took root, it leapfrogged beyond the West.

Did your film have any role in raising awareness of Alibaba?

Unfortunately, no. I’ve been talking about my film for the last two years, but it wasn’t until the last two months that people really started to listen. Now suddenly people are waking up and asking, ‘What is Alibaba? Where did this company come from?’ And my film provides the answers, at least from my own perspective.

Expert Insight

New rules on labor negotiations in southern China offer a potential solution to the country's growing problem with labor unrest while at the same time illustrating the difficulty the Communist Party faces in effectively addressing workers’ grievances.

For much of the last half-century, changing China through economic reform seemed to make far better sense than transforming the country through political revolution. Xi Jinping is trying to flip that on its head.

About China Real Time Report

China Real Time Report is a vital resource for an expanding global community trying to keep up with a country changing minute by minute. The site offers quick insight and sharp analysis from the wide network of Dow Jones reporters across Greater China, including Dow Jones Newswires’ specialists and The Wall Street Journal’s award-winning team. It also draws on the insights of commentators close to the hot topic of the day in law, policy, economics and culture. Its editors can be reached at chinarealtime@wsj.com.