]]>By: Anita McKayhttp://blog.timesunion.com/wagingpeace/a-story-seldom-told/2075/comment-page-1/#comment-4458
Fri, 10 Dec 2010 00:26:14 +0000http://blog.timesunion.com/wagingpeace/?p=2075#comment-4458There seem to be a couple of points to be made here. One is that allying with Nazis really has nothing to do with religion. There were many factors involved in who sided with whom. One factor in Eastern Europe was that some people (the Cardinal of Zagreb, for one) saw Nazis as a counter to the Communists. It is far too easy for Americans to be Monday morning quarterbacks about the decisions people under the gun (literally) have to make. We haven’t had those problems.

The other point I wanted to make is that the topic of the post originally was how, when we research, we can find out things about a group we view negatively which might surprise us. Linda’s point is well taken: We don’t speak of the Christian world as if it were a unity. Why do we talk that way about the Muslim world?

Since the off-topic of Nazi alliances has been raised, I’ll point out that far more Christians than Muslims supported Hitler. That is just one more datum with no real point to be made from it. There is a big difference between a piece of information and a point. It takes a lot of the former to come up with one of the latter.

Do you see the closed mindedness, indicated by Anita’s own words, Linda?

]]>By: Linda Muralidharanhttp://blog.timesunion.com/wagingpeace/a-story-seldom-told/2075/comment-page-1/#comment-4453
Thu, 09 Dec 2010 17:54:24 +0000http://blog.timesunion.com/wagingpeace/?p=2075#comment-4453#13, Edgar, I can accept that there are many facts that I do not know in detail. On the other hand, I have some information that a lot of Americans may not know. For example, some leaders of the Indian indpendence movement (Gandhi was obviously not one of them) thought they would further their own just cause by siding with Germany in World War II. Some, escaping British repression at home, even spent part of the war years in Germany itself. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” is the strategy behind this position. I find it a primitve approach and one that can errode the healthy values that were part of the original cause. We have experienced that ourselves with the United States support for war lords and religious fundamentalists in Afghanistan when there was a revolt against the Soviets who had been invited into their country by the incompetent but homegrown Communist regime of the time.

So that brings us all back, Edgar, to the point that we can prove nothing by pointing to flaws in this community or that community. If we have a position to support…it might be fair treatment for all or the end to US imperial wars, or whatever…we can try to correct any faction on our side that seems to be counterproductive to the cause. But people who have misguided ways of reaching a goal do not make the goal itself invalid.

As I indicated before, Esgar, the news media, the politicians, the general public, and many published books..especially those on “Orientalism” have given a distorted and sometimes completely false negative picture of Muslim populations in general. While there are faults and problems within such populations as within any typical group of people, the needed information at this point is the positive information that will leave more people with a clearer picture of Muslims individuals and of the world of Islam..to the extent such a generalization can be made. E.g., what is the “Christian World”?
Interpersed within its usual designation are atheists and humanists, the Mormon practices, the Greek Orthodox and Coptic Christian practices, the Southern Baptists, the Episcopalians,…the Quakers…

As far as “answering” a question like Edgar’s is concerned, I don’t see the point. I try to form my own opinions based on as many facts as I can. To try to guess what someone I don’t know might have done far in the past is a meaningless exercise. That kind of conversation might sound as if it means something, but I don’t see what.

]]>By: edgarhttp://blog.timesunion.com/wagingpeace/a-story-seldom-told/2075/comment-page-1/#comment-4444
Wed, 08 Dec 2010 01:15:03 +0000http://blog.timesunion.com/wagingpeace/?p=2075#comment-4444‘On March 1, 1944, while speaking on Radio Berlin, al-Husayni said: ‘Arabs, rise as one man and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor. God is with you.’[140][141][142]‘

“#11. For the sake of argument, Edgar, I’ll hazard a guess and answer your question. In Albania, the rescued Jews were being kept in Albania itself and not sent away with the expectation of migration to Palestine.

Thus, I expect that Mufti would have left the matter alone.” Linda

Linda, I believe you are mistaken.

“How do the actions of a Middle Eastern cleric regarding Croatia figure into a discussion about Albania?”

I referenced the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem because he had occassion to recruit Albanian Muslims for a Nazi SS division, and the original item on this thread noted: “Two things make this story remarkable. One is that it was Albanian Muslims who saved the Jews.” it was also Albanian Muslims who joined the SS, after being recruited by the Mufti.

Obviously, there was a tremendous difference in the behavior of Albanian Muslims, toward the Jews, during WWII. Some acted with humanity, while others did not.

]]>By: Mickie Lynnhttp://blog.timesunion.com/wagingpeace/a-story-seldom-told/2075/comment-page-1/#comment-4442
Tue, 07 Dec 2010 21:55:41 +0000http://blog.timesunion.com/wagingpeace/?p=2075#comment-4442Since Anita’s original story was about the saving and the extermination of many Jewish people during the Nazi holocaust and since tonight I’ve lit the next to the last Hanukah candles here’s a little song sung to the tune of a traditional Hanukah song. The new words were by Larry Bush but I’ve changed them somewhat to add more activism, cooperation and peaceful pursuit of economic justice.

Hanukah America

(Sung to the tune of “Oh Hanukah”)

Hanukah America, come light the menorah.

We all need a miracle. Speak up we implore ya.

Light a light for every home that’s been lost.

Banks too big to fail while millions get tossed.

Meanwhile, friends,

We know friends,

Our billions bring death overseas.

Wars without cause, are wars without pause,

Just to gas up our huge SUVs!

Wars without cause, are wars without pause,

As our nation is brought to its knees.

Hanukah America come light the menorah.

We all need a miracle, speak out we implore ya.

Light a light for courage to get through these times.

Light a light to protest corporate crimes.

Only then ganovim* will pay us some mind.

Childcare not warfare!

Bring justice by sharing the wealth!

Working together to build better times.

With the courage that brings us new health.

Working together to build better times

With the courage that brings us new health.

*Ganovim—Yiddish for theives

]]>By: Linda Muralidharanhttp://blog.timesunion.com/wagingpeace/a-story-seldom-told/2075/comment-page-1/#comment-4440
Tue, 07 Dec 2010 20:33:59 +0000http://blog.timesunion.com/wagingpeace/?p=2075#comment-4440#11. For the sake of argument, Edgar, I’ll hazard a guess and answer your question. In Albania, the rescued Jews were being kept in Albania itself and not sent away with the expectation of migration to Palestine.

Thus, I expect that Mufti would have left the matter alone.

You also forget that under the instigation of those with Zionist ideas, Muslims were being made into second class citizens in their own land of Palestine with the collusion of the British and other Western powers. I may not agree with the Mufti’s choice with regard to innocent children, but you need also to acknowledge that it was Jewish people who set up the conditions leading to some people wanting to protect the Arabs.

So, the issue in the post is that some people act honorably and some don’t. Those who do act honorably are not dependednt on any particular religion or any religion at all in order to act out of high moral character. In fact, in web sites describing those who rescued Jews during the Nazi era, there is a chart that shows the countries with the worst track record (more likely to turn Jewish populations over to the Nazis when ordered to) were the Catholic countries of Europe. With the Protestant and Muslim countries having a better record…as did Japan which was Germany’s ally at the time.

But why go there at all Edgar? Why not discuss with relevence the bad press that Muslims have received in recent decades in the West and appreciate that we all can have a better view when someone like Anita brings significant facts to light? I repeat, in every group and subgroup of human beings there are those to admire and those to chastise.

How about getting down to some current problem solving, such as finding ways to better integrate immigrant communities, especially the ones who have met us more than half way and worked hard and educated themselve or helping more people use alternatives to violence when faced with a grievance?

]]>By: edgarhttp://blog.timesunion.com/wagingpeace/a-story-seldom-told/2075/comment-page-1/#comment-4439
Tue, 07 Dec 2010 13:57:53 +0000http://blog.timesunion.com/wagingpeace/?p=2075#comment-4439I’ll be happy to answer your question, Anita, once you answer the question that I asked before you asked yours. Thanks, in advance, for answering my question!
]]>By: Anita McKayhttp://blog.timesunion.com/wagingpeace/a-story-seldom-told/2075/comment-page-1/#comment-4438
Tue, 07 Dec 2010 13:13:15 +0000http://blog.timesunion.com/wagingpeace/?p=2075#comment-4438How do the actions of a Middle Eastern cleric regarding Croatia figure into a discussion about Albania?
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