I wanted to add that I'm pretty sure we have never had an opportunity to trade Suh. His dead money has always been to high and more keeps getting added to each year making it not possible the following year.

They would have had a chance next year, but again a restructure killed it before they have gotten there.

Your entire premise is that Baltimore did it, so therefore it is possible...

Look at what's happening to Baltimore now... It's not sustainable, and I'd argue that the trend is to get away from paying a small group a ton of money. Look at what virtually every other playoff team is doing.... Additionally, we're so far away from a SB run it's sick. Virtually every unit is in shambles, except for possibly RB and QB, if you can call those positions units. Our OL is in shambles, our DL is in shambles, LBs? Shambles... DBs? Shambles... We need at lest 2 more starters in our backfield. Ridiculous...

I've said multiple times when we post about these things, I don't like the way Mayhew is doing this. I also don't think it will be sustainable, but if his goal is getting to the Super Bowl then there is at least one team that have done it with a load of money put into three players. Pit is also a team that I'm sure has done well with a ton of money in 3 guys, they are always in cap hell. Everything depends on Mayhew drafting well and that's his biggest failure because even if he was trying to build a different way it still severely damages your ability to build a good roster.

Even if they weren't paying Suh, Stafford, and CJ the money they are getting it would just be a different 3 guys making huge coin because they don't get players out of the draft. My problem is you complain about the money these 3 guys are getting, but it's simple for him to get around it and isn't whats holding the team back. It's his terrible post 1st rd round drafting. Look what Miami did with their cap space, look at Indy blowing money on the first day. The Lions would be doing the same thing because they are barren of talent outside of the big money guys they got in the 1st round.

All those teams you are throwing out there don't have guys making money like the Lions team because

1) They haven't spent 4 years trying to work with the only assets Millen left them

2) They draft well enough to be able to let their FAs walk because they have servicable replacements available already on the roster.

3) They have been ran well enough for long enough they haven't had to draft 3 guys in the top 2 of three different drafts since 2007.

The Redskins proved many years over you can't build a team with FAs. The lack of cap space isn't helping the situation, but it sure as hell isn't the most important thing holding the team back.

I don't disagree with you, but I will contend, that you can (and we should have) at least filled the roster with quality B level free agents. When teams sign players like Porter, Michael Bush, and Manningham for an average of around $3 mill per it drives me nuts when we have holes at CB, RB, and #2 WR. We COULD have fielded a good team last year, and we should have moved on from Matt Millen prior to 2012. Mayhew has had far too much time with this team to blame anything on Millen. It's Mayhew killing this team, not Millen.

You like to bring up these guys like Porter as options, but they went to good teams with solid foundations. I don't think those guys are an option for Mayhew, I wouldn't be surprised if they politely decline to even visit most of the time. Even coming off their playoff year they still had a ton of stink left on them.

Mayhew's best thing he can do is cling to his tiny bit of talent and use the draft to make it a winner, but he has failed at using the draft. The cap situation is more of a symptom of his bad drafting making him unable to let go of what he does have.

You know I'm with you on Mayhew should be gone, but we didn't get that. I feel like your mad at the wrong problem and I really don't believe dumping Suh will actually improve the team with the current results we are seeing from Mayhew.

March 14th, 2013, 9:02 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Salary Cap

rao wrote:

You like to bring up these guys like Porter as options, but they went to good teams with solid foundations. I don't think those guys are an option for Mayhew, I wouldn't be surprised if they politely decline to even visit most of the time. Even coming off their playoff year they still had a ton of stink left on them.

Mayhew's best thing he can do is cling to his tiny bit of talent and use the draft to make it a winner, but he has failed at using the draft. The cap situation is more of a symptom of his bad drafting making him unable to let go of what he does have.

You know I'm with you on Mayhew should be gone, but we didn't get that. I feel like your mad at the wrong problem and I really don't believe dumping Suh will actually improve the team with the current results we are seeing from Mayhew.

We were coming off of a playoff year and Porter went to the 6-10 Broncos. It's tough to argue that he wouldn't have came here. I can't agree that we had any "stink" left on us. We were picked by a few analysts as dark horse SB contenders. We were definitely on the "up and coming" list, and our stock was at an all-time high.

I see dumping Suh (for value, not for free) as correcting the salary cap problem. His value is inflated beyond his worth due to his "celebrity." He's known for being a lockrroom cancer and a "me first guy." To me that just seals the deal. We can't afford the guy anyhow, so the sooner the better. Get him gone and be done with it.

I've stated long ago that I prefer more "traditional" DTs. I don't think the Lions have the credibility to "re-invent" the NFL like they seem to want to. The NFL does constantly evolve and change directions, but IMO it's not what people think. People think that the NFL evolves from rushing, to passing, to defense heavy, etc...

What I see is the NFL "evolving" and inflating the value of certain positions (first it was RB, then WR, then CB, now TE)... IMO the good teams constantly add value where the "cheap" talent is. NE picks up on these trends and says "screw paying a #2 WR $6.5 million per year, we'll get an awesome TE throw to him a ton, and pay him $3.5. NE says "screw paying a RB $7,8,9 million per year, we'll draft one every 2-3 years and treat them as disposable diapers." It's smart, and it's something we constantly fail to do. We're throwing TONS of money at the DL when DL is the most expensive position on the defense right now... We're doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the current trends are, and worse of all, it's NOT working...

That's why I came up with the little mantra... "we're doing it wrong..."

March 14th, 2013, 9:17 pm

JL

Div 1 - Starter

Joined: December 13th, 2005, 2:09 pmPosts: 536

Re: Salary Cap

wjb21ndtown wrote:

I see dumping Suh (for value, not for free) as correcting the salary cap problem. His value is inflated beyond his worth due to his "celebrity." He's known for being a lockrroom cancer and a "me first guy." To me that just seals the deal. We can't afford the guy anyhow, so the sooner the better. Get him gone and be done with it.

I call BS. Can you link even ONE article from a reputable reporter that sources that?

Seriously wjb, I've grown so used to your negativity that most of the time I just pass your posts/opinions instead of wasting time reading them. But I saw that little comment and just had to ask you to put up or shut up it.

_________________If God isn't a Lions fan, then why is the sky Honolulu Blue?

You like to bring up these guys like Porter as options, but they went to good teams with solid foundations. I don't think those guys are an option for Mayhew, I wouldn't be surprised if they politely decline to even visit most of the time. Even coming off their playoff year they still had a ton of stink left on them.

Mayhew's best thing he can do is cling to his tiny bit of talent and use the draft to make it a winner, but he has failed at using the draft. The cap situation is more of a symptom of his bad drafting making him unable to let go of what he does have.

You know I'm with you on Mayhew should be gone, but we didn't get that. I feel like your mad at the wrong problem and I really don't believe dumping Suh will actually improve the team with the current results we are seeing from Mayhew.

We were coming off of a playoff year and Porter went to the 6-10 Broncos. It's tough to argue that he wouldn't have came here. I can't agree that we had any "stink" left on us. We were picked by a few analysts as dark horse SB contenders. We were definitely on the "up and coming" list, and our stock was at an all-time high.

I see dumping Suh (for value, not for free) as correcting the salary cap problem. His value is inflated beyond his worth due to his "celebrity." He's known for being a lockrroom cancer and a "me first guy." To me that just seals the deal. We can't afford the guy anyhow, so the sooner the better. Get him gone and be done with it.

I've stated long ago that I prefer more "traditional" DTs. I don't think the Lions have the credibility to "re-invent" the NFL like they seem to want to. The NFL does constantly evolve and change directions, but IMO it's not what people think. People think that the NFL evolves from rushing, to passing, to defense heavy, etc...

What I see is the NFL "evolving" and inflating the value of certain positions (first it was RB, then WR, then CB, now TE)... IMO the good teams constantly add value where the "cheap" talent is. NE picks up on these trends and says "screw paying a #2 WR $6.5 million per year, we'll get an awesome TE throw to him a ton, and pay him $3.5. NE says "screw paying a RB $7,8,9 million per year, we'll draft one every 2-3 years and treat them as disposable diapers." It's smart, and it's something we constantly fail to do. We're throwing TONS of money at the DL when DL is the most expensive position on the defense right now... We're doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the current trends are, and worse of all, it's NOT working...

That's why I came up with the little mantra... "we're doing it wrong..."

He went to a 6-10 Broncos team getting Peyton Manning and one year removed from going to the playoffs with Tim Tebow. That isn't a normal 6-10 team. Record is also only a small part of a players decision. DET as a city is far from an enticing place to come live. The coaching staff's style of coaching also plays into it and I'm willing to bet Schwartz isn't popular with every player.

They keep adjusting Suh cap number to line up with other top DTs, so it's not a cap issue. It will be in the future but it has yet to prevent them from making the signings they want. You can't say they are being held back by their cap if they make all the signing they go after. Last season was Mayhew franchising Avril that killed their space and he said himself he wasn't planning on making changes to his playoff team.

It's not Mayhew's choice of paying 3 crazy contracts that's holding the team back, it's his choice of personnel. There has never been any evidence they even look at the Tier B FAs you like so much when they do have space, so you can't say it's due to lack of cap space. This year is a perfect example of them still getting what they want no matter the state of the cap and like so many other bad teams they rushed into FA signing on the first day. If they were into bargain shopping they would have let things happen more. They can still fit the guys you like under the cap with their 3 "superstars", but Mayhew and Schwartz don't like the same players you do.

IMO you keep looking at a problem that would make little difference to this team and you should be looking at all the problems that if they would fix them can work with their 3 huge contracts.

March 14th, 2013, 9:59 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Salary Cap

JL wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

I see dumping Suh (for value, not for free) as correcting the salary cap problem. His value is inflated beyond his worth due to his "celebrity." He's known for being a lockrroom cancer and a "me first guy." To me that just seals the deal. We can't afford the guy anyhow, so the sooner the better. Get him gone and be done with it.

I call BS. Can you link even ONE article from a reputable reporter that sources that?

Seriously wjb, I've grown so used to your negativity that most of the time I just pass your posts/opinions instead of wasting time reading them. But I saw that little comment and just had to ask you to put up or shut up it.

Terry Foster calls Suh out for it all the time. There have been articles on it, and there was an "anonymous" source in the lockerroom, on the team, that has stated there is a whole sect of the team that's sick of him, fed up with him, and can't stand his "me first" pitty parties."

March 15th, 2013, 1:39 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Salary Cap

rao wrote:

He went to a 6-10 Broncos team getting Peyton Manning and one year removed from going to the playoffs with Tim Tebow. That isn't a normal 6-10 team. Record is also only a small part of a players decision. DET as a city is far from an enticing place to come live. The coaching staff's style of coaching also plays into it and I'm willing to bet Schwartz isn't popular with every player.

They keep adjusting Suh cap number to line up with other top DTs, so it's not a cap issue. It will be in the future but it has yet to prevent them from making the signings they want. You can't say they are being held back by their cap if they make all the signing they go after. Last season was Mayhew franchising Avril that killed their space and he said himself he wasn't planning on making changes to his playoff team.

It's not Mayhew's choice of paying 3 crazy contracts that's holding the team back, it's his choice of personnel. There has never been any evidence they even look at the Tier B FAs you like so much when they do have space, so you can't say it's due to lack of cap space. This year is a perfect example of them still getting what they want no matter the state of the cap and like so many other bad teams they rushed into FA signing on the first day. If they were into bargain shopping they would have let things happen more. They can still fit the guys you like under the cap with their 3 "superstars", but Mayhew and Schwartz don't like the same players you do.

IMO you keep looking at a problem that would make little difference to this team and you should be looking at all the problems that if they would fix them can work with their 3 huge contracts.

I love the bolded quote... I absolutely LOVE that Hixon came out and said that he wouldn't' want to play for Jim Scwartz. Other people have indicated the same, and I'm guessing it bleeds into our team as well.

I agree with you somewhat about Suh and players. I do think this team would have upgraded Peterman, Levy, our #2 CB, and AT LEAST one of our S's if we had more cap space. That's why I think our top three-four contracts are killing this team, and with all of the "restructuring" going on, we're going to be dead at least next year, maybe for the next two years.

I really don't have a problem with them not picking up Tracy Porter, Michael Bush, or Mario Manningham last year. I think we would have been in better shape this year if we had, and I don't think we would have gone 4-12 last year if we had those players, but that's just me. My problem is that we DO go after B-list FAs, but we pick the wrong ones (Drayton Florence, among others), and we blatantly ignore players like Peterman, Levy, whomever is playing SS for the minute, and whomever is playing #2 CB for the minute. Then we'll rely on some BS later round draft pick AS A STARTER! That's ridiculous. I don't mind us drafting Bently and Co. or even the Lewis', but 1) you can't expect them to start right out of the gate, and 2) we have to upgrade what we're getting out of Levy and our #2 CB in FA. I don't care who we get, as long as they're a decent starter. We fail time and time again to accomplish that end, and it's total incompetence from our current administration, and nothing is ever done about it.

March 15th, 2013, 1:46 pm

LionsAllDay

National Champion

Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 2:06 amPosts: 885

Re: Salary Cap

wjb21ndtown wrote:

rao wrote:

He went to a 6-10 Broncos team getting Peyton Manning and one year removed from going to the playoffs with Tim Tebow. That isn't a normal 6-10 team. Record is also only a small part of a players decision. DET as a city is far from an enticing place to come live. The coaching staff's style of coaching also plays into it and I'm willing to bet Schwartz isn't popular with every player.

They keep adjusting Suh cap number to line up with other top DTs, so it's not a cap issue. It will be in the future but it has yet to prevent them from making the signings they want. You can't say they are being held back by their cap if they make all the signing they go after. Last season was Mayhew franchising Avril that killed their space and he said himself he wasn't planning on making changes to his playoff team.

It's not Mayhew's choice of paying 3 crazy contracts that's holding the team back, it's his choice of personnel. There has never been any evidence they even look at the Tier B FAs you like so much when they do have space, so you can't say it's due to lack of cap space. This year is a perfect example of them still getting what they want no matter the state of the cap and like so many other bad teams they rushed into FA signing on the first day. If they were into bargain shopping they would have let things happen more. They can still fit the guys you like under the cap with their 3 "superstars", but Mayhew and Schwartz don't like the same players you do.

IMO you keep looking at a problem that would make little difference to this team and you should be looking at all the problems that if they would fix them can work with their 3 huge contracts.

I love the bolded quote... I absolutely LOVE that Hixon came out and said that he wouldn't' want to play for Jim Scwartz. Other people have indicated the same, and I'm guessing it bleeds into our team as well.

I agree with you somewhat about Suh and players. I do think this team would have upgraded Peterman, Levy, our #2 CB, and AT LEAST one of our S's if we had more cap space. That's why I think our top three-four contracts are killing this team, and with all of the "restructuring" going on, we're going to be dead at least next year, maybe for the next two years.

I really don't have a problem with them not picking up Tracy Porter, Michael Bush, or Mario Manningham last year. I think we would have been in better shape this year if we had, and I don't think we would have gone 4-12 last year if we had those players, but that's just me. My problem is that we DO go after B-list FAs, but we pick the wrong ones (Drayton Florence, among others), and we blatantly ignore players like Peterman, Levy, whomever is playing SS for the minute, and whomever is playing #2 CB for the minute. Then we'll rely on some BS later round draft pick AS A STARTER! That's ridiculous. I don't mind us drafting Bently and Co. or even the Lewis', but 1) you can't expect them to start right out of the gate, and 2) we have to upgrade what we're getting out of Levy and our #2 CB in FA. I don't care who we get, as long as they're a decent starter. We fail time and time again to accomplish that end, and it's total incompetence from our current administration, and nothing is ever done about it.

All of the guys we signed on Wednesday have huge signing bonuses, so they won't be as tough to pay for in the coming years. Mayhew isn't an idiot, he has a plan, and I strongly hope a Suh trade is part of it.

He went to a 6-10 Broncos team getting Peyton Manning and one year removed from going to the playoffs with Tim Tebow. That isn't a normal 6-10 team. Record is also only a small part of a players decision. DET as a city is far from an enticing place to come live. The coaching staff's style of coaching also plays into it and I'm willing to bet Schwartz isn't popular with every player.

They keep adjusting Suh cap number to line up with other top DTs, so it's not a cap issue. It will be in the future but it has yet to prevent them from making the signings they want. You can't say they are being held back by their cap if they make all the signing they go after. Last season was Mayhew franchising Avril that killed their space and he said himself he wasn't planning on making changes to his playoff team.

It's not Mayhew's choice of paying 3 crazy contracts that's holding the team back, it's his choice of personnel. There has never been any evidence they even look at the Tier B FAs you like so much when they do have space, so you can't say it's due to lack of cap space. This year is a perfect example of them still getting what they want no matter the state of the cap and like so many other bad teams they rushed into FA signing on the first day. If they were into bargain shopping they would have let things happen more. They can still fit the guys you like under the cap with their 3 "superstars", but Mayhew and Schwartz don't like the same players you do.

IMO you keep looking at a problem that would make little difference to this team and you should be looking at all the problems that if they would fix them can work with their 3 huge contracts.

I love the bolded quote... I absolutely LOVE that Hixon came out and said that he wouldn't' want to play for Jim Scwartz. Other people have indicated the same, and I'm guessing it bleeds into our team as well.

I agree with you somewhat about Suh and players. I do think this team would have upgraded Peterman, Levy, our #2 CB, and AT LEAST one of our S's if we had more cap space. That's why I think our top three-four contracts are killing this team, and with all of the "restructuring" going on, we're going to be dead at least next year, maybe for the next two years.

I really don't have a problem with them not picking up Tracy Porter, Michael Bush, or Mario Manningham last year. I think we would have been in better shape this year if we had, and I don't think we would have gone 4-12 last year if we had those players, but that's just me. My problem is that we DO go after B-list FAs, but we pick the wrong ones (Drayton Florence, among others), and we blatantly ignore players like Peterman, Levy, whomever is playing SS for the minute, and whomever is playing #2 CB for the minute. Then we'll rely on some BS later round draft pick AS A STARTER! That's ridiculous. I don't mind us drafting Bently and Co. or even the Lewis', but 1) you can't expect them to start right out of the gate, and 2) we have to upgrade what we're getting out of Levy and our #2 CB in FA. I don't care who we get, as long as they're a decent starter. We fail time and time again to accomplish that end, and it's total incompetence from our current administration, and nothing is ever done about it.

All of the guys we signed on Wednesday have huge signing bonuses, so they won't be as tough to pay for in the coming years. Mayhew isn't an idiot, he has a plan, and I strongly hope a Suh trade is part of it.

I just don't see how a Suh trade can be in the plans at all. If they trade Suh they will still be at the same cap hit without him and they aren't going to get good value because of no one wanting to pay his next contract. Look at Revis, no one wants to take him on if they have to give up a high pick. Suh is gonna be here to stay at least for one more contract and they are going to just have to work with it. Hopefully the next contract they give him will make him movable in a couple years after he signs, but right now his contract is a crazy mess and it will stay that way until he is extended.

He went to a 6-10 Broncos team getting Peyton Manning and one year removed from going to the playoffs with Tim Tebow. That isn't a normal 6-10 team. Record is also only a small part of a players decision. DET as a city is far from an enticing place to come live. The coaching staff's style of coaching also plays into it and I'm willing to bet Schwartz isn't popular with every player.

They keep adjusting Suh cap number to line up with other top DTs, so it's not a cap issue. It will be in the future but it has yet to prevent them from making the signings they want. You can't say they are being held back by their cap if they make all the signing they go after. Last season was Mayhew franchising Avril that killed their space and he said himself he wasn't planning on making changes to his playoff team.

It's not Mayhew's choice of paying 3 crazy contracts that's holding the team back, it's his choice of personnel. There has never been any evidence they even look at the Tier B FAs you like so much when they do have space, so you can't say it's due to lack of cap space. This year is a perfect example of them still getting what they want no matter the state of the cap and like so many other bad teams they rushed into FA signing on the first day. If they were into bargain shopping they would have let things happen more. They can still fit the guys you like under the cap with their 3 "superstars", but Mayhew and Schwartz don't like the same players you do.

IMO you keep looking at a problem that would make little difference to this team and you should be looking at all the problems that if they would fix them can work with their 3 huge contracts.

I love the bolded quote... I absolutely LOVE that Hixon came out and said that he wouldn't' want to play for Jim Scwartz. Other people have indicated the same, and I'm guessing it bleeds into our team as well.

I agree with you somewhat about Suh and players. I do think this team would have upgraded Peterman, Levy, our #2 CB, and AT LEAST one of our S's if we had more cap space. That's why I think our top three-four contracts are killing this team, and with all of the "restructuring" going on, we're going to be dead at least next year, maybe for the next two years.

I really don't have a problem with them not picking up Tracy Porter, Michael Bush, or Mario Manningham last year. I think we would have been in better shape this year if we had, and I don't think we would have gone 4-12 last year if we had those players, but that's just me. My problem is that we DO go after B-list FAs, but we pick the wrong ones (Drayton Florence, among others), and we blatantly ignore players like Peterman, Levy, whomever is playing SS for the minute, and whomever is playing #2 CB for the minute. Then we'll rely on some BS later round draft pick AS A STARTER! That's ridiculous. I don't mind us drafting Bently and Co. or even the Lewis', but 1) you can't expect them to start right out of the gate, and 2) we have to upgrade what we're getting out of Levy and our #2 CB in FA. I don't care who we get, as long as they're a decent starter. We fail time and time again to accomplish that end, and it's total incompetence from our current administration, and nothing is ever done about it.

Again you make a lot of good points and you and I are a lot of the times in the same ball park as what we want. My one thing I will continue to argue about is the idea it's the 3 contracts that are putting a strangle hold on the team. I just don't believe it's that. The problem is Mayhew isn't a personnel guy and he doesn't have a real personnel guy to help him make the decisions. The bad state of the cap would be fixed if they were making good decisions with who they added and when to get rid of them. Mayhew relies to much on Schwartz for finding players and who ever they use to interpret the scouting info they get is absolutely terrible or getting ignored. The top GMs people rave about a lot of times come from a scouting back ground or they leave the decisions up to a guy with a scouting background as the head of personnel. The way the Lions setup their staff they should just put Lewand in charge since he at least knows money incredibly well.

I've told you guys hundreds of times before that if I could create cap space out of thin air, then Mayhew could too. And he did. While I've never liked the kicking the can down the road approach, many of the top Lion contracts will stabilize next year, thus limiting the consequences.

As wjb states, and I concur with, the Lions' main salary cap problems are caused by having three top 2 picks over 4 years (CJ, Stafford, Suh) under the previous rookie CBA rules. Those 3 players account for a third of the team's cap space and that is not sustainable. CJ has already been extended and Stafford will be either this year or next. That leaves Suh as the odd man out. I'll be sad to see Suh go, but retaining him is not an option.

Unfortunately, the Lions won't be able to franchise or trade him. Because of the kicking the can down the road with his contract (which includes a voidable 6th year), the cap hits would be too much to do either.

But on the bright side, I'm happy with the signings of Houston, Bush, Quin, and Jones. Those were market value (or even below) with very low initial year cap hits. Their increases in year two will be offset by KVB's dead money and Raiola's contract coming off the books.

_________________

March 15th, 2013, 2:47 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Salary Cap

slybri19 wrote:

I've told you guys hundreds of times before that if I could create cap space out of thin air, then Mayhew could too. And he did. While I've never liked the kicking the can down the road approach, many of the top Lion contracts will stabilize next year, thus limiting the consequences.

As wjb states, and I concur with, the Lions' main salary cap problems are caused by having three top 2 picks over 4 years (CJ, Stafford, Suh) under the previous rookie CBA rules. Those 3 players account for a third of the team's cap space and that is not sustainable. CJ has already been extended and Stafford will be either this year or next. That leaves Suh as the odd man out. I'll be sad to see Suh go, but retaining him is not an option.

Unfortunately, the Lions won't be able to franchise or trade him. Because of the kicking the can down the road with his contract (which includes a voidable 6th year), the cap hits would be too much to do either.

But on the bright side, I'm happy with the signings of Houston, Bush, Quin, and Jones. Those were market value (or even below) with very low initial year cap hits. Their increases in year two will be offset by KVB's dead money and Raiola's contract coming off the books.

I agree with all of this, the only thing I don't agree with is Jones. I really don't think he's a starting caliber DE, and last time Mayhew tried to get a us a "poor man's version" of anything, it didn't pan out. IMO this team is really going to suffer from a lack of pass-rush this year, depending on what we do in the draft... But... It's a damned if we do, damned if we don't proposition...

We're either going to struggle with our pass rush, or we're going to struggle against the pass rush, depending on whether we go OT or DE.

I've told you guys hundreds of times before that if I could create cap space out of thin air, then Mayhew could too. And he did. While I've never liked the kicking the can down the road approach, many of the top Lion contracts will stabilize next year, thus limiting the consequences.

As wjb states, and I concur with, the Lions' main salary cap problems are caused by having three top 2 picks over 4 years (CJ, Stafford, Suh) under the previous rookie CBA rules. Those 3 players account for a third of the team's cap space and that is not sustainable. CJ has already been extended and Stafford will be either this year or next. That leaves Suh as the odd man out. I'll be sad to see Suh go, but retaining him is not an option.

Unfortunately, the Lions won't be able to franchise or trade him. Because of the kicking the can down the road with his contract (which includes a voidable 6th year), the cap hits would be too much to do either.

But on the bright side, I'm happy with the signings of Houston, Bush, Quin, and Jones. Those were market value (or even below) with very low initial year cap hits. Their increases in year two will be offset by KVB's dead money and Raiola's contract coming off the books.

I agree with all of this, the only thing I don't agree with is Jones. I really don't think he's a starting caliber DE, and last time Mayhew tried to get a us a "poor man's version" of anything, it didn't pan out. IMO this team is really going to suffer from a lack of pass-rush this year, depending on what we do in the draft... But... It's a damned if we do, damned if we don't proposition...

We're either going to struggle with our pass rush, or we're going to struggle against the pass rush, depending on whether we go OT or DE.

Have you ever heard the saying, " Pressure/Pick, Coverage/Sack" ? Yes, our DL is weaker. But, our DB's are vastly improved and will get stronger in the draft. Our safeties are now one of the team strengths. We have 3 of them who can start and do a decent job. If we can get a #1 CB in the draft, our DB's will be fun to watch for a change.

I've told you guys hundreds of times before that if I could create cap space out of thin air, then Mayhew could too. And he did. While I've never liked the kicking the can down the road approach, many of the top Lion contracts will stabilize next year, thus limiting the consequences.

As wjb states, and I concur with, the Lions' main salary cap problems are caused by having three top 2 picks over 4 years (CJ, Stafford, Suh) under the previous rookie CBA rules. Those 3 players account for a third of the team's cap space and that is not sustainable. CJ has already been extended and Stafford will be either this year or next. That leaves Suh as the odd man out. I'll be sad to see Suh go, but retaining him is not an option.

Unfortunately, the Lions won't be able to franchise or trade him. Because of the kicking the can down the road with his contract (which includes a voidable 6th year), the cap hits would be too much to do either.

But on the bright side, I'm happy with the signings of Houston, Bush, Quin, and Jones. Those were market value (or even below) with very low initial year cap hits. Their increases in year two will be offset by KVB's dead money and Raiola's contract coming off the books.

I agree with all of this, the only thing I don't agree with is Jones. I really don't think he's a starting caliber DE, and last time Mayhew tried to get a us a "poor man's version" of anything, it didn't pan out. IMO this team is really going to suffer from a lack of pass-rush this year, depending on what we do in the draft... But... It's a damned if we do, damned if we don't proposition...

We're either going to struggle with our pass rush, or we're going to struggle against the pass rush, depending on whether we go OT or DE.

I think DE is going to be their focus until the season starts. Schwartz said in an interview with Mike Florio that they got Jones to set the edge and wall up that part of the line. It seems like even if they aren't switching to the same formation as Seattle, they are still moving toward a similar philosophy. It's kinda a good thing to hear since it means they are trying to correct their terrible run defense, but it does seem like they are going to consciously weaken their pass rush to do it.

March 21st, 2013, 2:10 pm

conversion02

RIP Killer

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pmPosts: 10863Location: Sycamore, IL

Re: Salary Cap

Part of it is the horrid LB play.

______________________Draft defense - CB, LB, DT, LB...WR/KR

March 21st, 2013, 2:31 pm

thelomasbrowns

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2855

Re: Salary Cap

rao wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

slybri19 wrote:

I've told you guys hundreds of times before that if I could create cap space out of thin air, then Mayhew could too. And he did. While I've never liked the kicking the can down the road approach, many of the top Lion contracts will stabilize next year, thus limiting the consequences.

As wjb states, and I concur with, the Lions' main salary cap problems are caused by having three top 2 picks over 4 years (CJ, Stafford, Suh) under the previous rookie CBA rules. Those 3 players account for a third of the team's cap space and that is not sustainable. CJ has already been extended and Stafford will be either this year or next. That leaves Suh as the odd man out. I'll be sad to see Suh go, but retaining him is not an option.

Unfortunately, the Lions won't be able to franchise or trade him. Because of the kicking the can down the road with his contract (which includes a voidable 6th year), the cap hits would be too much to do either.

But on the bright side, I'm happy with the signings of Houston, Bush, Quin, and Jones. Those were market value (or even below) with very low initial year cap hits. Their increases in year two will be offset by KVB's dead money and Raiola's contract coming off the books.

I agree with all of this, the only thing I don't agree with is Jones. I really don't think he's a starting caliber DE, and last time Mayhew tried to get a us a "poor man's version" of anything, it didn't pan out. IMO this team is really going to suffer from a lack of pass-rush this year, depending on what we do in the draft... But... It's a damned if we do, damned if we don't proposition...

We're either going to struggle with our pass rush, or we're going to struggle against the pass rush, depending on whether we go OT or DE.

I think DE is going to be their focus until the season starts. Schwartz said in an interview with Mike Florio that they got Jones to set the edge and wall up that part of the line. It seems like even if they aren't switching to the same formation as Seattle, they are still moving toward a similar philosophy. It's kinda a good thing to hear since it means they are trying to correct their terrible run defense, but it does seem like they are going to consciously weaken their pass rush to do it.

Yeah, I heard that interview and found it interesting. Schwartz has said before that the Wide-9 was developed because they had smaller DEs in Tennessee; in the interview, he implied that they were running it in Detroit because of Cliff. I think Jones will give them an opportunity to go in a bit different direction on the line, which IMO is a good thing.

_________________"Good teams don't worry about a whole lot of stuff. They travel, they play, they win. And it doesn't matter where they go, what the time block is, all those kinds of things. They never seem to bother teams that play well, and we want to be one of those teams." -Jim Caldwell