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[Quote by: Magpie]The messianic tones always put me off - From the Face of Boe "giving his life to save everyone" earlier in the season to this finale with everyone's faith in The Doctor making him float around, Christ-like - with his arms out in a sort of walking-on-water pose - and then he cradles The Master "I forgive you" .... urghhh is it just because I'm an atheist that this annoys me?

Although self-sacrifice, forgiveness, and renewal are associated with Jesus and other messiah figures, by no means are they specifically religious themes. In fact, they have all been major parts of Doctor Who in the past.

The Doctor's attempts to forgive and reach out to the Master after all that he's done, and the Master's utter rejection of the Doctor, even to the point of death, is perhaps the best part of the whole episode for me.

[Quote by: Linquel]
Was that a real song, or something written for the episode like Song for Ten or Love Don't Roam? It was kinda catchy.

It is a real song. Its called "I Can't Decide" and is in fact track three on the Scissor Sisters album Ta-Dah.

As for the episode, I think that despite it being gorgeous in a epic way and the special effects being really good, the story makes you suspend belief on too many levels. The whole Let's All Believe in the Doctor bit was cute but how does that undo the aging process and the whole little creature he became. I know its a children's program but I expected more. I can even buy that if fit in with a tie to the Shakespeare Code and the power of words but I didn't truly get that in the Shakespeare Code and its harder to follow here.

The fact that they killed the Master, one of my fave characters is just awful when they went to great lengths to set him up in this series. While I'm glad they gave him an out and a way to return, its not the Master's character to give in and die instead of regenerate.

By transfering himself to Lucy's body is he now going to have to steal bodies again instead of regenerate? I think it implausible the Master would choose that when his ego would make him think that he could outwit the Doctor and escape the Tardis. I think it would have been great to have him a prisoner in the Tardis for season four even if Simm couldnt be in a lot of episdoes. I'm going to miss him. He was great in a insane way.

I did like that the Doctor forgave the Master and was genuinely hurt by his death.

Somehow, Captain Jack being the Face of Boe is just sad to me and not a cool "a ha" moment. Its like in tying up so many threads in this series in this last episode, RTD reached too far and started connecting stuff that should have been left alone.

My problem with the season finale episodes in all three seasons now is that RTD sets up something brilliant, and then its like he paints himself into a box, cannot get out logically and then you have to suspend belief or he doesnt take full advantage of wonderful story ideas.

The whole Bad Wolf thing in Season 1 could have been better outlined. The finale is saved by the emotional pull of Eccelston leaving.

Season 2, the idea of a war with the Daleks and the Cybermen is too juicy for words, but besides some funny trash talking between the two groups this idea isn't fully developed into something great. Finale, saved by the heart wrenching story of Rose left in a parallel world.

I see the same pattern in Season 3. Two great ideas in the preceeding episodes, leaving the last episode to fall flat.

That said, I can't wait for Christmas and next season to see what happens.

I wonder if we can start giving odds on which returning monster makes it into the finale.

[Quote by: LanaiaD]As for the episode, I think that despite it being gorgeous in a epic way and the special effects being really good, the story makes you suspend belief on too many levels. The whole Let's All Believe in the Doctor bit was cute but how does that undo the aging process and the whole little creature he became. I know its a children's program but I expected more. I can even buy that if fit in with a tie to the Shakespeare Code and the power of words but I didn't truly get that in the Shakespeare Code and its harder to follow here.

I think that the Doctor's rejuvenation is being given a lot of undeserved negative attention. Yes, it's a bit cheesey, but it's not the nonsense everyone's making it out to be. It makes more scientific sense than a lot of stuff that goes on in Doctor Who.

It is quite well established in Doctor Who that psychic energy exists. It has also been established that the Archangel network was being used to affect the minds of the people. It has also been established that the Doctor has psychic powers of his own. If psychic energy exists, and the whole human race is logged into a psychic network, and the Doctor can spend a year painstakingly integrating himself into that network, then I don't see what's so implausible about everyone syncing up their thoughts so that the Doctor can use their psychic energy to give himself temporary godlike powers.

It has nothing to do with the "power of words" that we saw in "The Shakespeare Code." This is psychic stuff. It's like the idea that some sort of catastrophe would happen if everyone flushed their toilets at the same time.

[Quote by: Ace] I enjoyed this Episode but not as much as last week's one

the negatives were
at one or two points it did fell to drag but i suppose that would have something to do with increasing it to 55 mins
Martha leaving i just feel she was never given a chance
also the death of the Master saddened me surely not the end of him
And lastly Lucy Saxon not being given a larger role

8/10

If as I suspect this was written before they knew that there would be a series 4 then all might not be doom and gloom.

Probably it is not only not the end of the Master but also not the end of John Simm, same for Martha

If they had to look at the possibility of the series going back into hiatus then they would have cast these actors with one season contracts and extension options.

The choice of JS as the Master seems to have been pretty popular so it would make sense to bring him back.

Same with Martha.

Now that they know that there will be a 4th series they have probably already made their offers

I was glad to read the comments on this board. Over on Outpost Gallifrey, the groupthink is deafening.

I liked the episode well enough -- I was a little put off by the 900-year-old MiniMe Doctor at first, but thought it was an interesting choice putting him in a cage. The fairy dust rejuvenation didn't bother me as much as it did a lot of people, apparently. I was also glad that the magic Time Lord killer gun was a ruse! If that had been for real, I'd have been really disappointed -- talk about messing with the mythos...

[Quote by: mistertarty] I was also glad that the magic Time Lord killer gun was a ruse! If that had been for real, I'd have been really disappointed -- talk about messing with the mythos...

Why ?, it makes sense really if you consider all the times Timelords ( especially the Master ) have turned up on earth and have been up to no good I find it very likely that research would've been done on how to kill them, I assume that even if it was real it was untested so who's to say it would've worked anyway.

[Quote by: mistertarty] I was also glad that the magic Time Lord killer gun was a ruse! If that had been for real, I'd have been really disappointed -- talk about messing with the mythos...

Why ?, it makes sense really if you consider all the times Timelords ( especially the Master ) have turned up on earth and have been up to no good I find it very likely that research would've been done on how to kill them, I assume that even if it was real it was untested so who's to say it would've worked anyway.

Primarily because I think it would have been one of the more advanced spacefaring races that would have come up with a way to kill a Time Lord.

[Quote by: mistertarty] I was also glad that the magic Time Lord killer gun was a ruse! If that had been for real, I'd have been really disappointed -- talk about messing with the mythos...

Why ?, it makes sense really if you consider all the times Timelords ( especially the Master ) have turned up on earth and have been up to no good I find it very likely that research would've been done on how to kill them, I assume that even if it was real it was untested so who's to say it would've worked anyway.

Primarily because I think it would have been one of the more advanced spacefaring races that would have come up with a way to kill a Time Lord.

Fair enough although plenty of alien technology has been left here according to various episodes and accroding to both the new series of Doctor Who and Torchwood we've been reverse engineering all sorts of things so why not create a Timelord killing weapon.

[Quote by: LanaiaD]As for the episode, I think that despite it being gorgeous in a epic way and the special effects being really good, the story makes you suspend belief on too many levels. The whole Let's All Believe in the Doctor bit was cute but how does that undo the aging process and the whole little creature he became. I know its a children's program but I expected more. I can even buy that if fit in with a tie to the Shakespeare Code and the power of words but I didn't truly get that in the Shakespeare Code and its harder to follow here.

I think that the Doctor's rejuvenation is being given a lot of undeserved negative attention. Yes, it's a bit cheesey, but it's not the nonsense everyone's making it out to be. It makes more scientific sense than a lot of stuff that goes on in Doctor Who.

I think another thing that I've not seen mentioned widely in fan circles so far is the extent to which, as a phone network as much as a "psychic" one, the telephonic properties of Archangel were what, scientifically, caused the undoing of the "hypersonic resonance" of the Lazarus laser.

The other property of the resurrection—telekenesis—is more explicitly something that came from a being with psychic powers overdosing on psychic energy. The effect of the world thinking about the Doctor is that the top-down power which previously resided with the Master was broken, in preference for bottom-up power given to the Doctor.

At its most basic, all that happened is that Martha reversed the polarity of the psychic flow, man. Since when has such a thing been a problem on Doctor Who?

"I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986

[Quote by: mistertarty] I was also glad that the magic Time Lord killer gun was a ruse! If that had been for real, I'd have been really disappointed -- talk about messing with the mythos...

Why ?, it makes sense really if you consider all the times Timelords ( especially the Master ) have turned up on earth and have been up to no good I find it very likely that research would've been done on how to kill them, I assume that even if it was real it was untested so who's to say it would've worked anyway.

Primarily because I think it would have been one of the more advanced spacefaring races that would have come up with a way to kill a Time Lord.

Fair enough although plenty of alien technology has been left here according to various episodes and accroding to both the new series of Doctor Who and Torchwood we've been reverse engineering all sorts of things so why not create a Timelord killing weapon.

That's fair, too.

I just felt like it would take some of the mystery out of Time Lord physiology -- like turning them into something you could kill with a wooden stake, or a silver bullet, or gold dust in the breathing apparatus

[Quote by: mistertarty] I was also glad that the magic Time Lord killer gun was a ruse! If that had been for real, I'd have been really disappointed -- talk about messing with the mythos...

Why ?, it makes sense really if you consider all the times Timelords ( especially the Master ) have turned up on earth and have been up to no good I find it very likely that research would've been done on how to kill them, I assume that even if it was real it was untested so who's to say it would've worked anyway.

Primarily because I think it would have been one of the more advanced spacefaring races that would have come up with a way to kill a Time Lord.

That, and it's incredibly silly and cliche that Martha would have to collect various items in a set in order to bring about the downfall of the enemy.

The idea of needing to collect X number of chemicals or magic artifacts or segments of the Key to Time or Millennium Items or Spiritual Stones or Horcruxes or Chaos Emeralds or Pokémon gym badges or Dragon Balls or any other such set of items has been done to death so badly that to use it anywhere other than in a video game is absolutely unforgivable, unless it's being used as an ironic joke like it was here.

Okay, I've been cool and tolerated the grossly unjustified Martha-dissing going on on these boards, but that's ONE STEP TOO FAR buddy!

Step outside Whoovie, me and Martha are challenging you to a fight.

LOLROF!!!

On another note, I just had a thought about that ending of 'Last of the Timelords' with the Titanic crashing into the TARDIS. Wouldn't it be funny if we find out that as the Doctor lands, the Chameleon circuit repairs itself temporarily and the TARDIS materialized as an iceberg?