Deseret News recruiting grades in for BYU, Utah and Utah State

Comments

Didn’t Deseret News just reported that both Utah and BYU national average
in 2014 for recruiting was between 60 - 70 out of 124 schools?

Isn’t this just about middle of the pack or a grade C ?Didn’t the article say that Utah state’s recruiting was below that
60-70 mark?

If that article is correct, your grade for Utah, (C)
has to be perfect while Utah States (B) has to be false, and BYU’s (A-)
has to be a fantasy of wishful thinking.

If you grade on the curve,
62 is a C grade while anything below is below a C and anything above is above a
C.

If the article is correct, perhaps Utah got the C, BYU got the
C- and Utah State got a grade somewhat lower.

plyxplySLC, UT

Feb. 10, 2014 11:18 a.m.

Utah is in a tailspin and unless something major happens this next season they
will be in worse shape than they could've imagined when they were allowed
in the pac 10.Even Utah coaches are getting out while they can, both Brian
Johnson and Jay Hill have moved on and I'm sure there are other Utah
coaches sending resumes out as we speak.BYU is spinning this year's
class nicely, but as we've all seen BYU doesn't usually do well with
good recruits, they either burn out or transfer. As I've said before,
Poppinga is the worst recruiter in the state, followed closely by Mark Weber at
USU. Neither one can recruit and while BYU has it's own holier than thou
attitude about players coming there, USU really dropped the ball with Weber.The college football schedules keep getting better, too bad only USU has
amounted to anything on the field, the other two keep falling further and
further from relevance.

BeSmartCheyenne, WY

Feb. 10, 2014 10:42 a.m.

@ CrowIt states in that research less games usually means a higher
rating.BYU also had rated games on ESPNU and ESPNNEWS which it also states
significantly reduces it.Utah gamesUU v. USU 311,000BYU
Virginia (on ESPN3 due to weather) 299,000BYU Texas 1.29 MillionUtah
v. OSU 329,000BYU v. Utah 1.29 millionUtah Oregon 747,000BYU
v. MTSU 329,000 (2nd highest rated ESPNU game all year on Friday Night)UCLA v. Utah 529,000BYU Georgia Tech- 358,000 (6th highest for ESPNU all
year)BYU Houston 205,000 (6th highest on ESPNNEWS all year)BYU Boise
1.97 Million (only 1 Pac game better on Fri. Night Oregon Civil War)BYU
Wisc. 2.18 MillionBYU Notre Dame 2.29 millionUSU FRESNO 1.7
MILLIONNow this is funny BYU v. Utah was almost twice as high as any Utah
game.USU has higher ratings than Utah during their bowlWhat really
matters is where you are rated compared to other teams in the time slot.BYU was consistently rated near the top in all their time slots.

CrowSandy , UT

Feb. 10, 2014 9:51 a.m.

@BeSmart once again you have proven my point. The article was based on games
being on the following ABC, NBC, ESPN, FOX, and FOX1. Utah had 1 gme on ESPN2
against byu and 4 games on Fox1 which all season long struggled for ratings. On
Fox1 Utah played games against the likes of USU and Oregon St and still managed
to have a viewership close to 700K. Where as byu was on tv 4 more times then
Utah played on ESPN and NBC which has higher distrubution then Fox 1 and still
only managed to brake 1 million thanks to them having Notre Dame and Texas two
of the power house of football and both listed as having over 5 millio. Take
away the Notre Dame and Texas game and byus viewrship is close to Utah and not
nearly the National brand as byu fans claim.

I would not be surprised
with the amount of money ESPN is paying the Big 5 that they do not resign with
byu when their contract expires. They will be going against the NFL on Thursday
night now that NBC has that contract. ESPN will need better teams to compete
against the NFL.

CrowSandy , UT

Feb. 9, 2014 5:39 p.m.

@besmart still not a national brand many of the teams with viewership of 5
million or more were on tv the same amount of time byu was Utah was on only 5
times on a national broadcast and were not far behind byu. For being a national
brand who played the majority of their games on ESPN no one really watched. The
proof is in the numbers

BlutoSandy, UT

Feb. 8, 2014 1:27 p.m.

@Uteology

There were 7 recruits which both BYU and Utah recruited.6 of them chose BYU, 1 chose Utah.I would say that BYU "is"
winning the in-state recruiting battle.

And for U, who endlessly
touts the Star System, according to Scout, BYU won that battle as well.

BlutoSandy, UT

Feb. 8, 2014 8:52 a.m.

@Uteology

There were 7 recruits which both BYU and Utah recruited.6 of them chose BYU, 1 chose Utah.I would say that BYU "is"
winning the in-state recruiting battle.

And for U, who endlessly
touts the Star System, according to Scout, BYU won that battle as well.In
fact, Utah was dead last in recruiting, in the Pac.

Keep clinging to
your Conference Crutch. Every recruit knows which teams are their
respective Conference doormats, and that be U!

Premier athletes
aren't persuaded to play for losing programs which are also ignored by the
Major Networks. see Utah.

CougarOnTheProwlMurray, UT

Feb. 7, 2014 9:59 p.m.

BYU made good use of the scholarships they had available,they filled holes at
WR, LB and added some OL to the mix that could develop into very good players.
Then you factor in stealing away several recruits from PAC 12 schools and BYU
overall had a very productive 2014 recruiting class. BYU for the most part got
who they wanted, except for 1 or 2 recruits that went elsewhere, overall they
did well and I think the the class is a bit underrated. These rating systems are
flawed though and we will find out how really good these players are on the
field.

UteologyEast Salt Lake City, Utah

Feb. 7, 2014 5:04 p.m.

@Bluto

U can argue minutia until pigs fly, but the fact remains that
Utah is becoming embedded as the Pac's cellar-dwelling bottom-feeder and
that is hard to shake in a young recruits mind, once it sets it. Meanwhile, BYU
still has it's Legacy and Brand.

-------------

The
same cellar dwelling bottom feeder that OWNs your team? Like I said Utah's
class this year was a failure yet it's similar to your "A-" class.

Utah lost two big commits, Shultz and Frison. It happens, we had
bad recruiting year. Is it a trend? We'll find out next year.

BYU's legacy and brand hasn't helped BYU in in-state recruiting nor
has it helped it land a Big 5 conference invite.

Uncle RicoProvo, UT

Feb. 7, 2014 5:00 p.m.

a C in the Pac-12 is better than an A- as a mid-major, just check the scoreboard
for the last 3 years.

ekuteLayton, UT

Feb. 7, 2014 2:02 p.m.

Can't get up for the Utes huh. Even after having been dominated for 20
years, lost 3 in a row, bronco said that a state championship was a priority and
KV called it his Super Bowl? Notice that Virginia, Utah, Wisconsin and
Washington are all Power Conference teams...

p eRICHFIELD, UT

Feb. 7, 2014 11:50 a.m.

Some more observations:Chris B is the one acting like BYU has a top ten
class! The bottom of the PAC is still the bottom of the pack.We
(BYU) did better this year in every way.

Having said those things, We
still need to win a game against Utah.How is it that we are now more
competitive against some higher ranked programs in their conference?How
can it be that they have owned us for so long (Why can't we get up to play
them like they do for us)?

Cougsndawgs West Point , UT

Feb. 7, 2014 11:13 a.m.

I've heard the Utah fans comparing themselves to TCU in regards to the
struggles of stepping up in SOS and conference difficulty. I was thinking about
this and realized some things. First, both Utah and TCU finished their inaugural
seasons in their respective conferences with winning records and a bowl game.
Both programs have declined since then. So the question is, why did they perform
so much better in their first season and are struggling now, even getting worse
from one year to the next? Why would a program move to a tougher conference and
have success initially, then start to tank? I think one answer is simply that
both Utah and TCU just aren't as good now as when they entered their
leagues.

Second, I think there's a familiarity that teams get
with one another when they've scouted and played each other more often. Now
that teams have seen more of Utah and TCU they are more familiar with their
tendencies and weaknesses and better able to exploit them, and that is the
reason for digression. Any thoughts? I believe it's a combination of both
of these factors.

ekuteLayton, UT

Feb. 7, 2014 9:04 a.m.

WON84,The schools are 45 miles apart and their fan bases are intermingled.
If you spent some time here on the Wasatch Front you would see that the face to
face banter is much more friendly and cordial than what they are on these
comment boards. Notice that many of the pot stirring comments come from out of
state.

WON84PLANO, TX

Feb. 7, 2014 8:18 a.m.

I like what BYU got but, these recruiting rankings and projections don't
matter. What matters is who you beat.

Furthermore, why bother with
writing articles comparing BYU and Utah? They're no longer rivals and will
likely not see each other often at all in any of the sports moving forward.

BlutoSandy, UT

Feb. 7, 2014 6:06 a.m.

@Uteology and Mountain Man.

If you eliminate the "Number of
Recruits Factor" in these rankings and go strictly on "Star
Averages", BYU's class would rank #49. Utah abt. #56. Either way,
BYU had a better recruiting class than U.

Perhaps more than any other
program, these goofy rankings are irrelevant to BYU in the short term. With 18 returning missionaries and BYU's willingness to recruit JC
transfers once again, these are what will have the more immediate impact on
BYU's football program.They have an ongoing pipeline with
missionaries and Bronco is managing it quite well.

U can argue
minutia until pigs fly, but the fact remains that Utah is becoming embedded as
the Pac's cellar-dwelling bottom-feeder and that is hard to shake in a
young recruits mind, once it sets it. Meanwhile, BYU still has it's Legacy
and Brand.

We've all had to observe the Ute-fans "Mask of
False Bravado" for 3 years now. Boasting of affiliation instead of
achievement.

The Red Tailed "Chicken" Hawks are merely
roosting now and recruits are noticing..

let's rollLEHI, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 7:43 p.m.

@ MountainMan

Be careful...Kentucky had the 17th ranked recruiting
class in the country.

rlsintxPlano, TX

Feb. 6, 2014 7:40 p.m.

While all these comparisons are made between teams and conferences at a national
level, the real measure of success is if a given team was able to sign a set of
players which fill their needs given existent (and returning in the case of BYU
/ Utah / USU) players. That's how they should be graded. From what I
read, all three did well.

eric2002xMiami, FL

Feb. 6, 2014 7:23 p.m.

The most significant problem for Utah in recruiting is that its PAC affiliation
did it no favors in getting recruits within the PAC footprint, where it is
playing games every week, where the PAC TV station is aired. 2-3
"SEC-country" recruits is more dumb luck on mid-tier recruits. As the
saying goes, even a blind squirrels find a nut every once in a while.

MountainMan25Salt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 6:24 p.m.

Just another reason why Whit needs to go. It's one thing to be at the
bottom of the barrel performance-wise, as long as the long-term plan and the
future look bright. But when our recruiting is at the bottom of the barrel too?
Utah has become a joke. We can and should be competing in the PAC 12. We
should not be getting embarrassed week in and week out in nearly every sport
THREE YEARS IN.

You supposed Ute fans need to raise your
expectations. I thought we had surpassed BYU...if so, why are we happy to be
slightly better than them in recruiting? We should be crushing them. And
don't get me started on Utah State. Isn't THREE YEARS long enough for
us to see the fruits of our conference affiliation advantage? I fear we have
become the Mississippi State or the Kentucky (football) of the SEC. Toting
conference affiliation when we can't compete in our conference just makes
us sound pathetic.

We need a change in leadership. Whit should be
fired. Chris Hill needs the boot as well.

UteologyEast Salt Lake City, Utah

Feb. 6, 2014 5:33 p.m.

TatorsHyrum, UT

@ Uteology and Mike Johnson:

One
thing you guys don't seem to understand. A factor in how rankings are
determined is how many recruits were signed. And since BYU didn't have as
many scholarships to offer as other schools, due to their number of returning
missionaries, that fact cost them in the overall rankings.

------------

Utah signed 20 recruitsBYU signed 19 recruits

Source: Scouts

IRS AgentPROVO, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 5:03 p.m.

Alright Chris B, here is the simple math for you.

Let's assume
2% of the US population is LDS, and by default, 2% of the recruiting pool is
LDS. If BYU is able to secure 90% of the LDS recruits, but exclude 90% of
Non-LDS recruits (due to unwillingness to live the honor code), then the math
looks like this:

(2% x .9) + (98% x .1) = 11.6%Meaning that
BYU's actual recruiting pool amounts to 11.6% of total recruits.Assuming that the 10% of Non-LDS recruits would also consider schools other
than BYU, and that 10% of LDS recruits would also consider other schools, then
by default, the pool for all other schools would amount to 98.2% of total
recruits.

It is a pretty simple 8th grade algebra problem that should
be no issue for someone from an intellectually elite PAC-12 school to calculate.

WA_Alum&DadMarysville, WA

Feb. 6, 2014 5:01 p.m.

If the grades are based on getting who they went after, then I think the A- is
warranted.

Recruiting comparisons between BYU and UoU are largely
meaningless. It is not only ability/willingness to live the honor code, but it
is also grades. Ask Star Lotulelei.

Based on the inherent
restrictions BYU athletics places on itself by being true to the
university's mission, I think they are recruiting just fine.

If your deepest wish for your favorite college football team is that they be
the best NFL farm team in the nation, then more power to you. Makes no sense to
me.

BeSmartCheyenne, WY

Feb. 6, 2014 4:40 p.m.

@ CrowBYU had over 1 million viewership on 9 games that counted.Utah
had 600,000 during 5 gamesThe TV listings do not include those games on
the Pac-12 network (go ahead and look it up)My guess is 1-2 hundred
thousand watched the Utes on the Pac-12 network (similar to the games watched on
ESPNU)

let's rollLEHI, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 4:12 p.m.

Just an illustration of the point made by many that ranking teams on overall
points rather than star average is misleading.

Oklahoma State is
ranked #27 on Rivals, it's star average is 2.89.

Maryland is
ranked #54 with a star average of 3.06. Hard to see how OSU should be 27 places
ahead of Maryland, it's just a function of OSU having more scholarships
this year.

I counted at least 15 schools with a star average higher
than Oklahoma State that were below them in the overall ranking.

And
please, no one try the ranking exercise one poster made with the PAC-12 and the
WAC (or MTW) with the PAC-12 and the SEC...that would just be too discouraging
for me as a fan of west coast football.

plebliansalt lake city, utah

Feb. 6, 2014 3:51 p.m.

Chris B,

You confuse players "drafted" to the NFL with those
"hired".

In 2009, a BCS athlete was 7.2% more likely to
make an NFL roster.

55% of all D-1 players play for BCS schools.
Assuming the best high school players are randomly distributed among Non-BCS and
BCS teams, 55% should come from BCS schools and 45% from non-BCS. Alternatively,
if reality is as Chris B wishes it, and BCS schools do recruit better athletes
out of high school than non-BCS schools, the margin of NFL players on ROSTERS,
not DRAFTED, should well exceed 80%.

Unfortunately for Chris B, in
2009 only 62.5% of NFL rosters were paying BCS players, in spite of the fact
that a significantly higher proportion of BCS players were drafted.

Conclusion, BCS marketing and exposure increases a college player's
chances of being drafted, but only barely increase the likelihood he will make
an NFL roster.

The results are even more even if you look at NFL
veterans (5+ years in the league). ESPN actually found that to achieve veteran
status in the NFL, it makes no difference whether they attended a BCS or a
non-BCS school.

So, BCS recruits are better, 7.2% of the time.

CrowSandy , UT

Feb. 6, 2014 3:34 p.m.

@Area 52 byu is not a national brand if they were their viewership would be
closer to the top programs in the Country 5 million +. Your viewership on ESPN
was barley over 1 million. Utah had over 600,000 + and they played on the PAC12
Network.

Once again GMAN shows his true colors. Utah had a very good
recruiting class and filled their needs if you look at the film of the players
Utah got SPEED. That is what they need to compete in the PAC12. The WR should be
able to get separation from the DBs in the league. The new DB should be able to
play man on man and on an island.

Utah will compete in the PAC after
all they were close their first year. Remember out of the 22 players on the all
PAC12 team there were no 5 or 4 star just 2 and 3 star recruits.

AZguyPhoenix, AZ

Feb. 6, 2014 3:11 p.m.

I am not seeing how the #70 ranked recruiting class for BYU can be seen as an
A-. Obviously, stars are not the only predictor of success, but you certainly
want the best athletes possible. I love the emphasis put on effort and
discipline, but you still would want that in folks that are more athletic.

I am not disappointed, but the truth is that I don't see how this
can lead to a top 25 ranking, when there are only three BCS schools lower than
BYU in the recruiting rankings.

I love the Cougs, but I also believe
they must get all of the top recruits that are even remotely interested in BYU.
They need to bring them in.

Sports NutzSmithfield, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 3:07 p.m.

@Chris B

Utah FB = Titanic

TatorsHyrum, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 2:41 p.m.

@ Uteology and Mike Johnson:

One thing you guys don't seem to
understand. A factor in how rankings are determined is how many recruits were
signed. And since BYU didn't have as many scholarships to offer as other
schools, due to their number of returning missionaries, that fact cost them in
the overall rankings. However, because they got a higher percentage of
those recruits they went after and even beating out Utah, USC, Stanford and even
Oregon in head to head battles, they received an A- grade.

Utah, on
the other hand, lost out on a higher percentage of their targeted recruits and
went down in their average stars from last year. Literally every national
recruit ranking service has them either last or second to last among all PAC12
schools. Even with fewer overall commits, BYU was still ranked better.As
such, a C grade was as good as they could possibly expect.

Between
these 3 factors... 1) Where Utah finished in the PAC12 this past
season.2) The level of recruits they just committed.3) An extremely
tough schedule next season...The immediate future doesn't look too
bright for Utah. That's an objective assessment.

BeSmartCheyenne, WY

Feb. 6, 2014 2:28 p.m.

UteologyI agree that an A- for BYU is way to high, but I think what
impressed the author is the ability BYU had to compete with bigger programs and
land the recruits.Almost all of BYU's recruits had offers from power
conference teams.I would maybe give BYU a C+

A grade of "C" is about
right for Utah, we had a big drop off compared to the last few years.

But an "A-" for BYU?

I guess the grades were relative to
strength of conference?

stonewallCottonwood Heights, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 1:51 p.m.

Chris B. is actually right about star ratings. Utahns have a very kindergarten
view toward recruiting. No school in Utah has ever been a destination school for
the truly big-time recruits, so they try to degrade recruiting rankings because
it's an inexact science. But the problem with that is that it's using
the exception to prove the rule. Obviously there are 5-star kids that will be
flops and 1 and 2-star kids that will be stars. But they are EXCEPTIONS. The
higher a star ranking, the higher the likelihood that player is successful.
We're still talking likelihoods and not guarantees, but that's no
reason to throw recruiting evaluations out the window. For every Heaps that
flops, there's a Winston, Tebow, Teo, Clowney, etc. that were top recruits
and did turn out to be star players.

And people need to understand
how Rivals and Scout decide rankings- they assign a point value for stars and
ranking, then add up all of the signees and use the sum to rank them. Which
means teams with fewer scholarships to give are by default ranked lower. Average
star ranking is the better indicator

ChewbaccaMagna, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 1:42 p.m.

Hmmm..... When you consider the standards that Bronco has set for the team,
competing for a National Championship, this is probably a C at best.

3grandslamsIowa City, IA

Feb. 6, 2014 1:29 p.m.

When you consider the standards that apply at BYU including that honor code,
this class is a home-run, A++++

DuckhunterHighland, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 12:32 p.m.

The best part of this whole article is no perspectives complete metldown. lol

Cougsndawgs West Point , UT

Feb. 6, 2014 12:30 p.m.

Area 52:Actually Utah's academic standing and tier one research
status were absolutely huge in their PAC12 invitation. They are a great school
that has large research grants and a research emphasis. BYU is a great school
also but as MP stated their mission is more for professional training programs
than research...just saying.

MP:You are correct. The tenuous
situation if the Big 12 was also an issue for BYU. In hindsight BYU
shouldn't have balked but hindsight is 20/20.

BeSmartCheyenne, WY

Feb. 6, 2014 12:22 p.m.

@ My perspectiveI agree that Utah has a a lot more research wise and
graduate program wise and that is a big reason for the invite.

MyPerspectiveSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 12:19 p.m.

BeSmartCheyenne, WY

"Any person who says BYU has not been
included in expansion for athletic reasons needs to read a little more, it is
all over out there that BYU has very good athletics."

I never
said that. I said that for decades byu is about sports, sports, and sports and
that it takes more than that for the Pac-12...also well documented.

Area 52Tooele, UT

@MyPerspective

"You got to
be kidding yourself if you think Utah’s robust academic portfolio and
research is the reason why. We all know BYU has a higher academic portfolio than
Utah.

"You still haven’t clearly detailed Utah’s
reason to be invited to the PAC12 over BYU."

I'll make it
clear for you...1. Academics 2. Research3. Athletic prowess
(Success in the BCS era)

The criteria was very clear.

I'm sorry but an undergrad institution like byu is fine and has a
specific purpose and mission but it is not Pac-12 caliber. Even USNWR shows
that...look at their assessment of byu's graduate programs. I won't
even bother bringing up the Medical School and research AGAIN.

Cougsndawgs West Point , UT

Feb. 6, 2014 12:17 p.m.

Chris B:Stop saying "we would invite them". You have no
affiliation with these conferences and no say whatsoever in who they chose to
bring in and leave out. You also have no idea what their real objectives or
reasons are for taking certain programs over others unless you sit in the board
room with them.

Btw, ND wouldn't want U or the PAC12. I think
their absence from any conference is a clear indicator that they don't need
or want U so don't worry about bending over backwards for them, especially
since you wouldn't be...the PAC12 officials would be, and they have no need
or desire for your input or opinion.

And BYUs happy where they are
and don't need U either...our recruiting is improving, we can schedule all
over the country any day we want without big brother telling us what to do, and
we aren't getting abused and torn apart in a conference like U are.
I'm perfectly happy without U, thank you very much.

LeftCoastUteDANVILLE, CA

Feb. 6, 2014 12:17 p.m.

The real issue for Utah is on the field performance for 2014.

If the
team gets back to a bowl and achieves a winning record in conference, then the
coaching staff can point to progress, stay in tact and next year's
recruiting improves.

If the team is 5-7 or worse again next year,
then I think we have a coaching change and a complete rebuilding process begins,
which could take years.

2014 recruiting class won't have much
impact on what happens next fall. The issues that really matter are the
quarterback situation and the brutal schedule. 3-9 is a real possibility.

MyPerspectiveSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 12:05 p.m.

CougsndawgsWest Point , UT

"To your point, BYUs struggles
with Utah, in no way show how they would do in the PAC12..."

Agreed, it's a data point. Nothing more. My comment was in response
response to a statement of fact that byu would be competitive in the Pac-12 and
we simply don't know that. Given the results of Utah/BYU match ups the
last few years there is nothing to suggest that BYU would be any more
competitive today than Utah is and potentially even less. Again, it's only
one data point.

"That being said BYUs large fan base and national
following were what attracted the Big 12, but BYUs desire to maintain tv rights
and their exclusive relationship with espn (as well as Sunday play) nixed that
deal."

If I remember right, there was a little more to it than
that. Wasn't the question of the Big 12's survival also giving BYU
pause? I might be wrong. Bottom line...the Big12 used different criteria and
byu was a better fit for them. However, fan bases don't just
"will" themselves into a conference and certainly not based on one
recruiting class as Area 52 suggested.

Utes FanSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 12:06 p.m.

I don't know why the Deseret News gives so much a higher grade to BYU than
to Utah. Here are the national rankings:

Rivals, Scout, ESPN, and
24/7:

Utah # 68, 69, 64, and 63BYU # 70, 62, 62, and 66

I would say that they are pretty even. Yes, Utah needs to improve if
they want to compete in the Pac-12. No doubt about that. But head-to-head,
player-to-player, BYU and Utah were very even.

Chris BSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 11:54 a.m.

@BeSmart,

Sunday play is not really an issue - its something that can
be worked around.

If Notre Dame wanted to join the pac 12 or Big
12(which also doesn't want byu) and if they had a no sunday rule, we'd
bend over backwards to accomodate them and welcome them to the conference.
We'd happy work around their sunday issue(if they had one) and we'd
invite them to the conference.

so no, sunday play is not the issue.

Chris BSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 11:52 a.m.

BlueHusky

"But the star rating is probably a poor predictor of
success when applied to an individual."

You coudlnt be more
wrong. Its proven to be on AVERAGE a very good indicator.

ON
another article I pointed to a recent article on NFL.com that said in a recent
study(or call it a review or whatever you want if you dont like the term study)
of a span of 10 draft classes I believe that 44% of 5 stars were drafted.

An uninformed person would conclude that the star ratings are not good.
But that person wouldnt know what they are talking about.

The article
points out that only 1% of all recruits are given a 5 star rating, and yet 44%
of them get drafted.

isn't it interesting that it wasn't
just 1% of 5 stars who got drafted even though only 1% of the college population
of footblal players was 5 stars.

This particular article didnt
mention the percentage of 3 and 4 star recruits who get drafted, but I have seen
other articles that show indeed the higher the star the higher the proabilty of
being drafted.

So, is this an attempt to
show that Utah didn't do quite as well as BYU, or a glaring comparison of
how you stack up against your peers in the rest of the PAC?

Either
way, who (in their right mind) would purposely point this out as a Ute fan???
I'd be shaking my head if I wasn't so busy LOLing (as Chris B would
say)

Cougsndawgs West Point , UT

Feb. 6, 2014 11:35 a.m.

MyPerspective:Also to your point to Area 52, it is true that BYU did not
meet the bar established by the PAC12 for being a tier 1 research school...BYU
is more geared toward training than research. Utah deserved their invitation
because they are in fact a tier 1 research school. That being said BYUs large
fan base and national following were what attracted the Big 12, but BYUs desire
to maintain tv rights and their exclusive relationship with espn (as well as
Sunday play) nixed that deal.

In terms of landmark tv deals, you do
realize that the Big 10 will make a bigger deal for TV money bringing in
powerhouses like Rutgers and Maryland right? The tv deals have to do with major
tv markets not the quality of the programs, as these additions show. Yes, Utah
brought more money in terms of a championship game and the SLC tv
market...neither of which infers that the additions were great athletic
programs. Again, Colorado, Rutgers, and Maryland are all examples of this.

RdubSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 11:35 a.m.

Good for BYU, they definitely need all the help they can get. It's made the
rivalry much weaker beating them year after year. Sadly it looks like Snow may
be their new up and coming in state rival. Even the gap is widening for the
basketball team. Surely BYU can stay competitive on that front.... can't
they?

RealBlueHolladay, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 11:28 a.m.

@MyPerspective

You realize that your "Landmark TV deal" is
only seen in a regional area, right? Nobody on the midwest, east coast has
access to or is interested in your pac12 network. Have you seen the ratings of
your ute football games, its non-existent. The pac-12 network is a joke.
Everybody but you knows that.

BlueHuskyMission Viejo, CA

Feb. 6, 2014 11:27 a.m.

Yawn. Another protracted pot-pourri of commenters repeating each other.

I don't agree with Chris B's assessment in its entirety, but
certainly stars on average do matter. A little. But they are a rating of high
school kids. A regression model predicting success based only on star rating
would probably would not do much better than a 55% R-square (explaining 55% of
the variance).

A better model would be based on a lot of factors.

Ultimately, it is success on the field that validates a star rating. But
the star rating is probably a poor predictor of success when applied to an
individual.

Elementary statistics, Mr. B.

BeSmartCheyenne, WY

Feb. 6, 2014 11:25 a.m.

@ MyperspectiveThe Pac-12 expanded in order to renegotiate a tv contract.
And what did tv want a championship game (some people have estimated this at
40-60 million dollars) so the Pac-12 would have added SUU to get to 12 if that
was their only choice. But they added a good program in Utah.Any person
who says BYU has not been included in expansion for athletic reasons needs to
read a little more, it is all over out there that BYU has very good athletics.
See all athletic department ratings.Sunday play is also an issue. 11 games
were televised on ESPN networks on sunday. That is a large source of revenue
that would stop with BYU.

Area 52Tooele, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 11:25 a.m.

@MyPerspective

This is starting to get real entertaining reading your
replies and comments LOL

You got to be kidding yourself if you think
Utah’s robust academic portfolio and research is the reason why. We all
know BYU has a higher academic portfolio than Utah. You really want to go there?
Just ask Star who has higer academic standards.

You still
haven’t clearly detailed Utah’s reason to be invited to the PAC12
over BYU. I at least gave you some really good reasons why BYU did not. So, stop
with all the side mumbo jumbo and tell me why Utah deserved to be in the PAC12
over BYU?

Cougsndawgs West Point , UT

Feb. 6, 2014 11:24 a.m.

MyPerspective:First off let me say I enjoy our back and forth and the
insight you bring. You have shown me that respect so I return it.

To
your point, BYUs struggles with Utah, in no way show how they would do in the
PAC12, so you are in fact speculating. You can't do anything but speculate
considering BYU isn't in the PAC12. BYU may match up better with other
PAC12 teams. I will concede that BYU may do no better than Utah, but again that
is by definition a speculation.

I'm glad to see that you agree
that it's "obvious" that Utah has not shown they belong or have
earned their place in the PAC12. That has been verified...BYUs success in a
hypothetical situation is speculation. Surely you can concede that.

FTsalt lake city, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 11:19 a.m.

It's ironic that most national services graded Utah and BYU about equal but
the DN gave BYU an "A" and Utah a "C". I guess the grades are
given on what is expected vs what is attained.As a Ute fan for over 40
years, I'll admit the program is headed downward and Coach Whit's
tenure is probably on life support. Momentum has a lot to do with sucess and
the Utes don't have much right now.

CougOrUte..NaahNibley, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 11:10 a.m.

It is nice that Utah did well as opposed to BYU and USU. But even the most rabid
Utah fan has to realize that compared to the rest of the PAC 10+2 teams they are
still falling behind. I don't get the big brag by Chris B and others that
they are beating the other in state schools on the field and in recruiting. You
are getting killed in your conference....that is what should matter to you. I
get it that you are embarrassed by your lack of success in the PAC 10+2. It does
not reflect well on you to try to sooth your conscious by beating down BYU and
USU. With the absolutely monster of a schedule you have next year, and the
athletes you are recruiting, it is going to be another tough year. Hey and I
admit, with BYU and USU's recruiting, it would be just as tough or more so
for them. Utah is 4 or 5 years away from competing in the PAC 10+2 even if they
start getting higher ranked recruits. Good luck to you, but quit with the chest
thumping until you win.

Magna Ute FanMagna, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 11:07 a.m.

The rankings in regards to Utah are somewhat skewed for the worse. Perhaps that
is true for USU and BYU as well? But some of the recruiting services are still
not showing DJ Law as committed to Utah. And, I believe none of them are
crediting Utah with Lowell Lotulelei, although he wasn't counted last year,
because he didn't sign a LOI then. That's screwy in my opinion.

MyPerspectiveSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 10:56 a.m.

Area 52

"BYU is a national brand, has a bigger fan base, better
facilities (I’m sure you will argue this because Utah is upgrading
theirs), a bigger stadium. Oh, and one other thing, a National Championship! So,
I really don’t know what Utah has over BYU."

Good grief,
you have yourself worked up. Yes, byu has intangibles (I doubt facilities is an
advantage any longer - tough to accept, I know) but I'll point out to you
again...you can't pick and choose the intangibles for an invitation to an
elite conference. The conference determines what they are looking for and the
bar was simply too high for byu which was never considered.

Regarding your assertion of fan bases, I will remind you that the Pac-12
struck a land mark TV deal with Utah in the mix. Therefore, the point you are
attempting to make (whatever it is) is moot.

ekuteLayton, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 10:46 a.m.

BeSmart,byu has an advantage in recruiting their target base. If it was
the national brand that it and it's fans incessantly proclaim, it
shouldn't lose any targeted LDS athletes to other schools.

RSLfanalwaysWest Valley, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 10:46 a.m.

The biggest thing to take away from all this is that USU is taking recruits from
bigger teams than them. With Ute's and BYU leaving MWC really has helped
USU. That conference is good luck for Utah teams when they are in it. But when
you leave it gives you a curse.

MyPerspectiveSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 10:46 a.m.

Area 52..."We all know if BYU wasn’t a religious school and if their
basketball team could play on Sunday they would’ve been invited to join
the PAC12."

We all know that? Really? Apparently that message
didn't make it to the Presidents and Chancellors of the Pac-10. Was byu
even asked about the the Sunday play that you claim was solely responsible for
keeping them out of the Pac-12? No. Therefore, there is no reasonable way to
make that assertion. Unfortunately for byu and its fans, byu has spent decades
building sports programs. Sports, sports, and more sports. Over that same
period of time, The University of Utah focused on a robust academic portfolio
and research. There is far more than Sunday play keeping byu off the Pac-12
radar. Entitlement is alive and well in Provo. You don't just simply will
yourself into a conference like the Pac-12.

Congratulations to byu
for finally putting together a recruiting class equivalent to Utah. However,
given the struggles Utah has had and it's total domination of byu in every
respect, in what world do you think that would make byu even remotely
competitive in an elite conference?

dww722North Salt Lake, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 10:41 a.m.

Ty Detmer was recruited as a 3 star QB out of Texas. He wasn't the biggest,
strongest or fastest which is what the star rating is based on. What he did have
is serious qb smarts and a system that allowed him to showcase the amazing
talents he did posess. In the process he and his teammates made the mighty, 4-5
star laden, number 1 rated and defending national champion Miami Hurricanes look
rather pedestrian in a victory for the ages and sent Detmer on his way to
winning the Heisman Trophy.

Chris B would probably say that's a
one time lucky shot. Maybe, but BYU football history is loaded with similar (if
not as spectacular) games that rocked the college football world because they
devised a scheme that allowed their 2-3 star athletes to compete on the same
level as the big boys. Boise State did the same thing. Yeah stars matter some
but not as much as CB would have you believe.

MyPerspectiveSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 10:36 a.m.

Cougsndawgs

Cougsndawgs...Utah's complete and utter domination
of byu and ownership of Provo is all evidence needed to show where byu would be
in the Pac-12 if it were worthy to stand with the elite. Yes, Utah is
struggling as is TCU in their elite conference. Both programs are perfect
examples that BCS conferences are far more competitive than the mid-majors. You
bring nothing to table by stating the obvious.

BeSmartCheyenne, WY

Feb. 6, 2014 10:26 a.m.

@ CByou do realize 2-3% of the US population is LDS right?That is
not a huge advantage in recruiting.

nhatch82Eagle Mountain, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 10:26 a.m.

@ Chris B

Enough with Jamaal thinking BYU wasn't a division 1
school. He chose BYU over Utah! Thats right the uties offered him a
scholarship and he chose to go to the "DIV 2" school instead. What does
that say about the utes?

Its funny that you seem to think that, yet
Nick Saban, Les Miles, and Urban Meyer(among others) all seem to be going after
and getting a lot more of the 4 and 5 stars than most schools and their teams
are usually among the best.

Probably purely coaching though.
I'll bet they could put together a team of 1 star nobodies and do just as
well.

LOL!

RealBlueHolladay, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 9:56 a.m.

I still think its funny how the ute fan base thinks just because they got a
couple kids from SEC country that all of the sudden they have opened this
teleportation device the size of the grand canyon from florida to salt lake
city. "Look out everyone, players in the southeast are tripping over
themselves to get to salt lake city". Let's get real you found ONE yes
ONE player that is a 3 star recruit from florida, oh by the way, he can't
decide where he wants to go. Stevens Henager College just reported that they
just received a letter of intent from a Mr. Law in florida.

Chris BSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 9:52 a.m.

Area52

How did jamaal Williams think byu was division II?

Did he not know about the national brand?

I've never heard a
recruit think any other national brand school was division II

Chris BSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 9:48 a.m.

Brsmart

What you fail to realize though is that many kids, mostly
lds, choose byu BECAUSE of the honor code as the uniqueness of byu. Yes, many
kids won't want to go to byu because of the uniqueness, but many lds kids
go because of it, which means byu gets kids they otherwise would not have. You
lose some because of uniqueness but gain others because of it.

So
you still fail to explain how that hurts recruiting on a net basis. Yes, there
are more non lds kids in the nation but byu also gets a much higher percentage
of the Mormon recruits than most colleges get.

And if by can be qb
university or linebacker university, doesn't that HELP recruititing and not
hurt it?

Want to try again?

TRUTHSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 9:43 a.m.

Hey Chris b...hang your hat on the fact that some of BYU recruits will not cut
it academically and will fall to the Utes like Star.....see you in the funny
papers

Area 52Tooele, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 9:29 a.m.

@MyPerspective

Looks like the only pair of glasses you use are the
Rose Colored Ones LOL. You should definitely get a different pair. So you tell
me, what has Utah done to deserve to be in the PAC12? We all know if BYU
wasn’t a religious school and if their basketball team could play on
Sunday they would’ve been invited to join the PAC12. Those two reasons are
why they did not get invited (The PAC12 will never admit though).

If
you tell me Utah deserves to be in the PAC12 because of their two big wins
(Sugar Bowl win and Fiesta Bowl win) over BYU that is totally ridiculous.
Because what has Colorado done as of late and if I’m not mistaken
Washington St. and Arizona have really done nothing to bolster the PAC12 as
well.

BYU is a national brand, has a bigger fan base, better
facilities (I’m sure you will argue this because Utah is upgrading
theirs), a bigger stadium. Oh, and one other thing, a National Championship! So,
I really don’t know what Utah has over BYU.

Go Cougs!

Mikeylikesit Davis, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 9:24 a.m.

Congrats Cougs! So glad we don't have a game with the TUN to ruin our
season this year ;)! ChrisB, ErnstTBass, MildredinFilmore have a great season.

WildCougarHolladay, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 9:22 a.m.

Chris B. Please Read This!!!Chris you make it a point to criticize
everything BYU, everybody knows you have no credibility in your perspective. Let
me point out some recruiting insight to you that you seem to be missing. Since
you are so enamored with stars and the pac12, but lets touch on stars.

You look at rivals (I say rivals because you get the best rating there, versus
scout) Your beloved utes are ranked 11th in your conference in recruiting, and
6th in the south division. How is that helping your cause to even win the pac
south? You are quick to point out the mediocrity of BYU but we are out
recruiting you according to scout.

You need to put down the animosity
towards BYU and focus on your own team. Please come down to earth and recognize
your beloved utah utes are nothing but a feeder fish to your superior cohorts in
the pac12. USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, completely dominated you over
recruiting this year. Oh wait so did Colorado. Sorry mr. pac12. Maybe another
pac12 sticker in your rear view mirror will make you feel better.

plebliansalt lake city, utah

Feb. 6, 2014 9:18 a.m.

What "star" recruit was Austin Collie? 3 stars

For Utah, Eric
Weddle, perhaps their best defensive player ever, was a two star recruit.

Jake Heaps was 5 star and could not outperform 2 star Riley Nelson.

Bobby Wagner, RObert Turbin and Chuckie Keeton were 2-star recruits.

Chris Cooley and Kevin Curtis were not even two star recruits.

That is all I have to say about the reliability and foreseeability of the
Scout and Rivals' "star" systems.

It seems the athletic
threshold is 2 stars, after that, stars mean nothing.

Cougsndawgs West Point , UT

Feb. 6, 2014 9:11 a.m.

MyPerspective" Further, byu isn't in the Pac-12 because they have
proven they don't belong there and have done nothing to earn their place
among the elite."

You realize you could say the exact same thing
about Utah, right? The difference is Utah is actually in the PAC12 and is
actually showing they don't belong and actually have done nothing to earn
their place in that conference. With BYU you're just speculating, with Utah
it is verifiable and proven fact. Being in the PAC12 doesn't change the
fact that Utah is a MWC caliber football program.

Ed GradyIdaho Falls, ID

Feb. 6, 2014 9:06 a.m.

I wish I could track the various recruiting services like some on this message
board, but I have a job.

ekuteLayton, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 9:02 a.m.

I agree with Gurney.byu deserves an A for recruiting on the same level
Utah.Utah deserves a less than average grade for recruiting on the same
level as byu.

On a different scale I would give the byu program and
fans an F for their ecstatic celebration of mediocrity and the Utah program
should get an F for ranking at the bottom of the PAC 12 in recruiting.

BlutoSandy, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 8:55 a.m.

@Chris B.

You lost us all at Hello!

As for your Utes.

-Last in Pac-12 Athletic budgets.-Last in Pac-12 recruiting.-Last in Pac-12 teams with National Games on a "Major" Network.-10th in Pac-12 Academic Rankings.-11th in Pac-12 Attendance.

Two straight losing seasons...No players in the College Hall of Fame or
National Award winners.

We tried to warn you to remove your Masks of
False Bravado!

BeSmartCheyenne, WY

Feb. 6, 2014 8:43 a.m.

@ CBHave you ever been around college athletes? Like friends with them,
being one, talking to one?Well from experience at the College athletic
level 10 guys out of the 12 on my team would never consider BYU as an option
because of the honor code. Most of them drank, partied late, and were
explicitly active in their romantic lives.A lot college athletes want
that, that is part of the experience.So coming from someone with
experience with college athletics, it is a huge hamper. It is amazing to
see such in cognizance in you remarks, absolutely baffling the image you portray
of yourself.

MyPerspectiveSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 8:42 a.m.

Area 52Tooele, UT

"Man, if BYU was in the PAC12 or another
Super Conference, it wouldn’t even be close, BYU would destroy Utah in the
recruiting battle and that is a fact."

LOL...getting a bit
carried away aren't you? It's easy to call something a "fact"
that can never be proven but it makes the author look silly. Further, byu
isn't in the Pac-12 because they have proven they don't belong there
and have done nothing to earn their place among the elite.

I love
the pipeline that Utah is establishing in SEC country. However, what concerns
most Utah fans is that similarities in recruiting with other in state programs
is not going to cut it in the Pac-12. UCLA, USC, and the other programs in the
Pac-12 South (and Pac-12 North) just raised the level of competition a notch.
Utah bringing in a recruiting class that is equivalent to byu's class is no
complement. That's exactly the point that Gourney is making with the
relative grades for the same level of talent.

DrUteWoods Cross, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 8:40 a.m.

Have to agree with most of the comments posted here, but passing thru the
obvious recruiting challenges that exist for the various Utah programs, I'm
curious now what will the teams and coaching staff do to develop the young men
who have joined their ranks.

Star Lotulelei was a 3-star in Scout,
Taysom Hill a 3-star, as was Chuckie Keeton. Each seems to have blossomed in
their respective systems.

The ball is now in the coachs'
court(s).

In Utah's case, it will be particularly interesting
to see what the various new coaching assignments can produce with (1) the
personnel returning from either last year's team or (2) from their
missions, plus (3) the results of yesterday's activities.

And we
know that every team in the PAC improves significantly every year. Quite a
challenge.

BlutoSandy, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 8:39 a.m.

Rankings according to Scout..

If you strictly look at the
"Star" averages, and drop the "Number of Recruits" factor, which
is irrelevant anyway, then BYU's recruiting class would rank #49, not #62.
While Utah would rank at #56 not #68.

Either way, BYU had a
better recruiting class than did Utah.

What is more pressing for BYU
are the recruits from 2011 and 2012, i.e. returned missionaries.

Tom in MSMadison, MS

Feb. 6, 2014 8:39 a.m.

Well, Brandon, I guess you are showing you really do bleed blue (I've
guessed it all along). You are really giving the Utes a "C" when their
speed just went to warp level 10 speed? Did anyone, particularly Brandon, even
look at the video clips to see how fast these guys really are? Personally
I'm excited to see an Eric Weddle type hitter that's a little bigger
and has blazing speed. And let's not forget the drama with DJ Law. I work
with a couple of Ole Miss fans, and they were laughing at me when I said that DJ
Law was going to be a Ute. Ole Miss's fan site said that he had sent his
LOI in to Ole Miss, and that the Utes were down the list of other programs
(including four or five other SEC programs)that were beat out. Whitt was right
when he said we don't know half of the drama involved with recruiting. I
believe you rate BYU too high, and the Utes too low.

BeSmartCheyenne, WY

Feb. 6, 2014 8:32 a.m.

@ MyPerspectiveYou do realize that he was at UTEP right. BYU is a major
step up.Do you also know coming out of High School he turned down the
Pac-12?

MyPerspectiveSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 8:20 a.m.

KralonHUNTINGTON BEACH, CA

"Good recruiting classes for all
three big programs in the state, but not good enough to keep Utah and BYU
competitive with most of their opponents."

What? Obviously, you
haven't seen byu's 2014 schedule. byu's "competition" is
going to make this class and the current players look like absolute superstars
and the coaches look like football gurus. The receiver who signed on with byu
for one year employed a brilliant strategy to dumb down his competition for his
last year of football will have numbers off the charts (if byu's qb decides
that he isn't the only one on the team and actually throws the ball) and be
a top prospect for the NFL. Brilliant!

BeSmartCheyenne, WY

Feb. 6, 2014 8:15 a.m.

I think BYU and Utah both addressed big needs.I think what BYU fans are
excited about is the beat USC 3-1 (losing Mama), Utah 7-1, and other power
conference teams for a lot of their recruits. A definite change in BYU's
recruiting philosophy and refreshing. Even BYU's late pickup (Gulley) was
getting calls from Georgia.I applaud both schools the U for breaking into
the south and recruiting elite speed (DJ Law is 4.3 type of guy hopefully he
qualifies), and BYU for changing philosophies and recruiting in a wider area and
against the power conferences.

Steven S JarvisOrem, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 8:11 a.m.

Smelling the roses...Eventually Utah will do that but not by weakening each year
in a league that they should be getting better in. I am not expecting the Utes
to win their division. It'll happen once in awhile when both USC and
Arizona State have bad years and Utah has an easier road of it avoiding Stanford
and Oregon. But the weakening of recruiting and the lack of bowls are seriously
weighing down the program.

BYU on the other hand does not need to
recruit specifically against other programs. They just need to recruit for
their needs like they did this year. The A- was deserved because the most
pressing needs were adequately addressed. Those three receivers they picked up
are huge after Cody graduating.

worfMcallen, TX

Feb. 6, 2014 8:02 a.m.

This can't be!

How can a MWC, and Independent team, have a
higher graded recruiting class than a PAC 12?

Unless it's the
utes?

Didn't Weber also have a "C"?

Chris BSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 7:54 a.m.

Alex,

Blaming the honor code for recruiting?

I thought
byu was a national powerhouse and that tons of kids want to go to byu?

Sure, some wont want to go there, but BECAUSE of the honor code many WANT to
go there, so why doesn't byu do better in recruiting because of the honor
code?

Saying limited recruiting pool doesn't answer the question
because due to the Mormon affiliation byu's recruiting pool is expanded to
the Mormons across the nation.

What specifically about the honor
code hurts recruiting? Doesn't that help recruiting? Don't many kids
WANT the byu experience and honor code in their lives? Doesn't that benefit
recruiting and not hurt it?

I would live to know why you use the
honor code as an excuse for worse recruiting than you would have otherwise. But
please be specific

xertSanta Monica, CA

Feb. 6, 2014 7:36 a.m.

Both of these grades are way off. C minuses would be generous, elites get real.
BYU got the warner kid and that is nice. Utah picked up a big and highly rated
lineman and that is also nice. Beyond that? Let's wait and see. But truth
is truth and my Utes had arguably the second worst recruiting class in the Pac
12. That is not good, especially from a coach who calls recruiting the lifeblood
of a program. Both BYU and utah we're beat out by the likes of Marshall and
western michigan for talent. Good luck to the new guys and I hope they make
believers out of everyone, but to call these classes a- and c+ or whatever, is
like tying a nice ribbon on a box of Whitman chocolates and calling them Sees.

oddman,

Feb. 6, 2014 7:27 a.m.

Neither stars nor Rivals measures the heart nor desire. Let's give em all
a chance to show us the number of stars in their attitudes.

still_thinkingDraper, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 7:26 a.m.

What a lot of people miss is that BYU doesn't recruit by 'stars'.
BYU players have to not only be willing, but have a DESIRE, to live to BYU
standards. BYU's list is based first on who wants to live the standards,
and then the athletic talent. It is a different metric. I think it's really
a compliment to say BYU's class is rated similar to Utah (a member of the
vaunted PAC 12) given BYU's true recruiting pool is a fraction of
Utah's (i.e. Utah can go after any recruit, while BYU only recruits the
tiny fraction of D1 quality players willing to live LDS church standards).

evansrichdmwest jordan , UT

Feb. 6, 2014 7:23 a.m.

Since BYU is and indy and people keep saying being indy makes it harder to
recuit I think BYU did well. Sure Utah has the PAC 12 to recuit and it does pay
off to some point, but BYU has ESPN and that seems to be paying off just as well
has PAC 12 does, but here is the thing, BYU is winning and players want to go to
a team that wins. Right now Utah is not winning and it is effecting its
recuiting. BYU is winning, could use some more wins against great teams, but
bottom line it is winning and winning on a national TV station.

Final though Utah, a PAC 12 school, should worry because this is the first
years since joining the PAC 12 that BYU and indy school either beat or match
Utah in recuiting.

Real BassIdaho Falls, ID

Feb. 6, 2014 7:08 a.m.

Chris. Why the focus on BYU? Aren't you in the big time now? Oops. Worst
recruiting class in the PAC! No more bowling for u!

CBAXProvo, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 7:06 a.m.

I love football here in provo but I hate the hype. Lets not get too excited
anticipating the next 50-10

BlutoSandy, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 7:01 a.m.

Rankings according to Scout..

If you strictly look at the
"Star" averages, and drop the "Number of Recruits" factor, which
is irrelevant anyway, then BYU's recruiting class would rank #49, not #62.
While Utah would rank at #56 not #68.

Either way, BYU had a
better recruiting class than did Utah.

What is more pressing for BYU
are the recruits from 2011 and 2012, i.e. returned missionaries.

Adirondack CougarLoon Lake, NY

Feb. 6, 2014 6:58 a.m.

My take-away is that the tide is turning. The ESPN exposure is helping, Indy
football can work. It works because BYU can make its schedule as hard or soft
as it wants. So if they can ramp it up over the next 5 - 10 years as they
continue to get better (high stars) players they can continue to have winning
seasons and go to bowl games. Winning records helps recruiting, so it is an
upward spiral. Utah doesn't have that luxury. Every year they will face a
tough schedule and struggle to get to .500 and a bowl game, and that does not
help recruiting, so a downward spiral.

shortsPayson, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 6:51 a.m.

Chris B.

"byu fans are acting like they have a top 10 recruiting
class." You are the only one on this board commenting there are NO BYU
comments.

Area 52Tooele, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 6:50 a.m.

@Chris B

Wake up and smell the Roses for once. If Utah ranked higher
than BYU by the very slimmest of margins you would be rubbing it in and doing
the exact same thing as BYU fans. Because a win is a win right? Doesn’t
matter how much you win by. LOL Just face the fact, the only reason Utah is
even in the Top 70 is because of their affiliation with the PAC 12. Man, if BYU
was in the PAC12 or another Super Conference, it wouldn’t even be close,
BYU would destroy Utah in the recruiting battle and that is a fact.

Y Grad / Y DadRichland, WA

Feb. 6, 2014 6:44 a.m.

Making the star discussion more meaningful, I think you might be willing to
agree that a 4 star JuCo experienced player is more likely to pan out than a 4
star high school player. To that end, BYU fans are indeed positively giddy.
Losing the production of Cody Hoffman is discouraging. Picking up three
experienced players to replace him is hopeful.

As you so often and
ably remind us, Utah plays in a big boy conference now. To that end, if
comparisons must be made, Utah didn’t do very well this year. However, I
am confident in Coach Whit’s ability to get more out of less, and I
honestly hope he gets the chance to continue to do so.

BYU will
continue to wander in the wilderness, playing some big boys, but not competing
in a big boy conference. But if our recruiting improved by over 10%, that has
to be good, right? If that improved out winning by 10%, that would be good. At
least for most BYU fans.

Y Grad / Y DadRichland, WA

Feb. 6, 2014 6:43 a.m.

Ah, Chris. So many things to say.

First off, most BYU fans are NOT
acting like we have a top 10 recruiting class. Exaggeration and hyperbole are
not a sound basis for making your criticisms. And that’s a shame, because
you frequently have good facts to discuss in defense/promotion of the team you
proudly support.

Second, I appreciate your use of star average for
comparison instead of total stars.

Third, most BYU fans are not
interested in the comparison between BYU and Utah, but since you mention it,
2.68, IS better than 2.63.

The important comparison, for most BYU
fans, is 2.31 to 2.68. BYU had a much better recruiting class this year than
last year. And since you mentioned it, 2.96 to 2.63 is a much worse recruiting
class.

I am willing to admit, I am one who STILL doesn’t place
a lot of stock in stars. Most BYU fans have lived through Jake Heaps and Cody
Hoffman. But as you aptly reminded us, over and over (and over) again, stars DO
matter.

WiscougarfanRiver Falls, WI

Feb. 6, 2014 6:42 a.m.

RE: Chris B.

"byu fans are acting like they have a top 10
recruiting class. "

Which fans are those? Seriously, can you show
even one comment that provides evidence for this claim? All I see is our top fan
(Chris B.) rushing to post before anyone can even express an opinion.

Ricardo CarvalhoProvo, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 5:56 a.m.

Chris B - Help me understand how BYU fans are "acting like they have a top
10 recruiting class" when no obvious BYU fans have posted on this page. I
have never seen anyone as fixated on BYU as you.

Congratulations to
all three in-state teams for decent recruiting classes. Despite the lack of
large numbers of highly ranked recruits, each of our three teams play some
pretty good football and consistently enjoy post-season play with a few
exceptions now and again.

DennisHarwich, MA

Feb. 6, 2014 5:45 a.m.

Regardless of the opinions stated and for as much as I dislike the BYU program
and grew up a Ute lunatic the most entertaining football in the state is played
by Utah State. Period.

Don't Feed the TrollsSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 5:38 a.m.

Chris,

So what you're saying is Utah is destined to continue
being the bottom dweller in the PAC?

That is not news.

Mike JohnsonStafford, VA

Feb. 6, 2014 3:53 a.m.

So, Utah with a rivals.com rank of 68th gets a C and BYU with a rivals.com rank
of 70th gets an A-?

That says a lot about expectations on the two
teams.

cougar76Raleigh, NC

Feb. 6, 2014 1:21 a.m.

Some people seem to have hours to spend researching and coming up with
meaningless statistics. How about researching some questions that are relevant
to the future of football at the u - How does utah's class compare to the
rest of the PAC-12? How will Utah get out of the cellar if their recruiting
class is in the cellar? Since u don't play BYU for two years will beating
the buffs be your bowl game? If BYU is not relevant, why are you so obsessed
with us? BYU signed 2, 3 and 4 star recruits. SC and the other elite programs
signed 3, 4, and 5 star recruits. I don't see a NC in BYU's future
and u should get used to the cellar

Alex TMurray, UT

Feb. 6, 2014 1:02 a.m.

Chris B

What BYU fan thinks that we have a top 10 recruiting class? I
have no idea who you talk to...unless that BYU fan is your 8 year old little
brother? Maybe you just feel the need to start some fire.

UTAH = mediocre signing class (will ALWAYS have a mediocre
signing class unless they can get out of cellar...not likely)

Utah
State = little brother...no one really cares. get real.

No in-state
program will ever be top-tier. Unfortunately Utah will ALWAYS be at the bottom
of the pac-12 when it comes to recruiting.

No need to even argue or
discuss who has a better class. Even if it is .05 or a .65 difference. Is that
really a big win for the Utes?

Lets just all be happy that each
school picked up some good kids!

DnquixoteLas Vegas, NV

Feb. 6, 2014 12:29 a.m.

Mr. Gurney gets that Utah and BYU were neck and neck (but way down) on the major
sports sites right? But somehow this was an amazing class for BYU and a garbage
class for Utah? I would say sub par for both. But the expectation for Utah is
clearly higher.

BlueNtheFaceRancho Cucamonga, CA

Feb. 6, 2014 12:01 a.m.

Nice spin as usual, Chris B.

Bottom line, BYU got all they wanted
minus a couple. Utah missed on many, including about 6 or 7 that chose to play
at "Indy BYU."

I know they've already been counted a
couple of years ago, but the Troy Hinds and Rawlinsons that are included in the
18 or so returning missionaries rejoining the program give us more than enough
to edge out the instate programs and a lot of the mid-to-lower level BCS
teams.

It's a great time to be a Cougar fan. Rise up!!

Go BYU!

Hoosier87American Fork, UT

Feb. 5, 2014 11:57 p.m.

I gotta say it's quite comical reading Chris B's meltdown.

I honestly haven't enjoyed your posts this much in A LONG, LONG
TIME...

As for Utah's recruiting class - it is pretty weak and
will not help Whittingham keep his job past this year. It's certainly not
strong enough to compete in the PAC12. I like Coach Whit, but his days are
numbered.

BYU's class on the other hand seems like exactly what
the Cougars needed. Get the O-Line figured out and this could be a very good
team. If someone could help Anae figure out how to run an offense, this could
be an excellent team.

Jeff lsFarr West, 84404

Feb. 5, 2014 11:54 p.m.

Chris B. What can you tell me about that running back committment for
Utah. You know, the guy that signed and sent three LOI's. One to Utah, So.
Miss, and some community college. No doubt a future Academic All American for
Utah, wait he may not actually show up. The So Miss Coach is very pleased at
signing him.Jeff

Utah fan operated "Rivals" has inflated the u recruiting class numbers
ratings and probably deflated BYU's class numbers. I would not use Rivals
in the state of utah as it is a biased system. The actual difference is
probably much wider that Rivals would lead us to believe.

Down underSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 5, 2014 11:16 p.m.

So I guess CB is saying that EVERY team i the pac out recruited the u.
That's a way to compete. The gap at the bottom of the pac will continue to
grow. When WSU can out recruit the utes it speaks volumes about the direction
of the two programs.BYU is heading in the right direction and the utes are
heading the other way.

KralonHUNTINGTON BEACH, CA

Feb. 5, 2014 10:53 p.m.

Rivals isn't up-to-date so their numbers are incorrect. ESPN looked correct
showing BYU at 62nd and Utah at 64th, but you have to pay to see the details and
I don't care enough to pay. 247sports also looked correct and they have
Utah at 63rd and BYU at 66th.

Point is BYU and Utah's 2014
classes are roughly the same which means neither team got more than a couple
great athletes and probably a couple more that will develop into top players.

To compete with less than the best players teams need to have top
coaching. If they don't have the best coaches and don't have the best
players then they need to have a strategy of trick plays and different looks to
try and confuse their opponents (Boise State should come to mind).

Good recruiting classes for all three big programs in the state, but not good
enough to keep Utah and BYU competitive with most of their opponents. It is
football, so you never know, any team can have a great year where the ball
mostly falls their way or the team plays above their talent level.

Chris BSalt Lake City, UT

Feb. 5, 2014 10:36 p.m.

Comparing all teams in the West, here is how the conferences stack up with local
teams displayed:

When you see this
list its no surprise to know the Pac 12 went 14-1 against the mwc and quasi mwc
byu last year.

Very very strong correlation between higher stars and
wins over teams with lower stars

This also shows what recruits think
of the bottom of the Pac 12 vs the top of the WAC - better recruits still prefer
being at the bottom of the Pac 12 tot he top of the wac, as the bottom of the
Pac 12 is still better than the top of the WAC