Comments on: League again denies that it made Vilma an offer https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/
ProFootballTalk on NBCSports.comThu, 23 Aug 2012 22:46:06 +0000
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By: cwwgk https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1951574
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 22:46:06 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1951574If/when Judge Berrigan rules against Vilma, will she be added to the list of conspirators?
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By: musicman495 https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1951461
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 22:05:35 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1951461For the 5,000th time, the CBA does not give the Commissioner unlimited power to do whatever he wants in whatever cases he wants. There are limits to the types of cases in which he has sole authority for both rulings and appeals, and there are descriptions of the responsibility he has to be impartial in those cases. Mr. Vilma and the others are suing in court to say that the NFL’s case and Goodell’s handling of it fail on both points. They have a perfect right to file that suit, and the CBA does not automatically make their case pointless, as many will see when the judge rules in their favor.
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By: silentcount https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1951085
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 19:37:39 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1951085Bungled the internal desciplinary procedure? Uh duh, you think? Goodell intentionally manipulates public outrage by accusing the Saints of having a pay-to-injure-bounty program in EVERY GAME FOR 3 SEASONS. If that were true, then Sean Payton and Vilma deserve to be suspended. However, Goodell still hasn’t provided clear proof that it even occurred IN JUST ONE GAME! Therefore, true justice would be for their suspensions to be lifted and Goodell resign over the mistakes he has made. He can do this on his own, or wait until a higher authority insists on it!
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By: samapoc https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1951067
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 19:32:04 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1951067Well as John Clayton put it, Vilma would have taken the offer “in a heartbeat” if it had been made to him. And I’ll take his word over anyone’s on here. So I doubt the offer was made.

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Why take half off if you think you deserve all off? That’s ridiculous and bad negotiating skills. As soon as Vilma started to get offers, he would try to increase the offers. His strategy is proper, but the NFL is playing really dirty. I find it astounding that people think Vilma did anything because there is zero evidence. There was admission to pay for performance by players like Shanle and Fugita (and Shanle isn’t even being punished). This whole fiasco is ridiculous.

If you want to beat the Saints, you want it to be fair. Not with their best defender sidelined for a bs penalty. You want to go against your opponent’s best effort, be that effort dirty or not, and you want to win. Best versus best, all the time.

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By: hail74 https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1951051
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 19:26:24 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1951051If roger should have to show proof to be believed than so should reporters using unnamned “sources”.

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See, you have it reversed, my friend.

All you people who are so quick to defend Goodell not sharing his “evidence” because he is supposedly protecting his sources are now screaming because Florio’s story used sources. Somehow, it’s okay for Goodell but it’s not okay for the defense.

No I don’t have it reversed, just implying how some are making whats reported fit their arguments al a cart while ignoring other bits of info as lies and speculation. By the way, I’m a skins fan whose team was heavily punished this offseason as well and I don’t approve of the way either situation was carried out. However, that is what both sides agreed to and goodell is well within the rights of the CBA.

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By: samapoc https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1951030
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 19:18:28 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1951030Source: NFL will do anything to win, including lie, exaggerate, and ruin careers. Stay out of Rogers’s way!
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By: sb44champs https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1951013
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 19:11:26 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1951013“Then again, absent a settlement, the judge may soon be declaring that, in her view, the league bungled the internal disciplinary process.”
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That’s what Saints fans have been trying to convey right from the start!!!
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By: purplegreenandgold https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950991
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 19:02:52 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950991BREAKING NEWS!!!…Today as NFL spokesman Greg Aiello left the Manhattan office of the NFL his pants started smoldering…he quickly took his pants off in the middle of high pedestrian traffic to take care of the problem. When asked of his quick thinking he said “it’s happened before”.
This is Chad Johnson reporting for OCNN
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By: daveman8403 https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950944
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 18:43:49 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950944Loomis and Payton took responsibility because they are in charge of the team. They also don’t have a Union backing them, so whatever the commissioner says goes.

Benson did NOT issue a statement confirming bounties, and in fact is still arguing that Goodell overstepped his bounds.

“Bounty”, in the rule book, also includes pay-for-performance (look it up). Technically, there was a a “bounty”, but that in not what Goodell issued punishments for, nor does the punishment fit the crime. pay-for-injury has NEVER been admitted to by anyone associated with the Saints.

If they hadn’t, they wouldn’t be in the position they are now, which is trying to make unofficial offers to settle behind closed doors and while simultaneously denying that they have made any official offers to settle.

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By: sj39 https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950855
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 18:05:22 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950855I hope Vilma’s restaurant business goes well. I have a feeling that he will never play a significant role on an NFL team again.
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By: cwwgk https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950846
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 18:00:12 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950846People are so quick to call Goodell a liar. By implication they therefore consider Benson, Loomis and Payton liars as well. Each acknowledged in writing Goodell’s allegations of a bounty program are true and took full responsibility for them.

Yes, they did.

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By: geauxjay https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950834
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 17:55:13 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950834If roger should have to show proof to be believed than so should reporters using unnamned “sources”.

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See, you have it reversed, my friend.

All you people who are so quick to defend Goodell not sharing his “evidence” because he is supposedly protecting his sources are now screaming because Florio’s story used sources. Somehow, it’s okay for Goodell but it’s not okay for the defense.

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By: woodworthbayoutiger https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950803
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 17:41:53 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950803“it’s a pay for performance world”. Look let me put it another way. Most big corporations talk out of both sides of their mouths. The difference is that they do it quietly, discreetly, behind closed doors.

Mostly because they don’t have a CBA to protect them or MOST importantly an antiquated, outdated Sherman Anti Trust Law to hide behind. AND that is their worry here. AND worried they should be!

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By: thraiderskin https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950756
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 17:21:47 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950756The league should offer the reduction, because this isn’t being done in a court of law, they made their case in the court of public opninion and outside of the opening statement, they have really fouled it up. I believe he(Vilma) offered up the money, but to what extent was he leading the happenings? The league doesn’t seem able to prove anything and quite honestly, unless he is almost as culpable as Williams, a full year suspension is rediculous. I understand the coaching punishments, but the league has mostly failed to prove their case against the players (as the ringleaders), now they just look vindictive and draconian.
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By: hail74 https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950647
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 16:34:27 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950647If roger should have to show proof to be believed than so should reporters using unnamned “sources”.
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By: ilovefoolsball https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950634
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 16:30:49 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950634People give Goodell and the NFL administration waaaaay too much credit.
The sport is the reason that the NFL is so popular, not the people who run it.
I don’t think people realize how big this would be if the administration is shown to have bungled this case or worse, manufactured evidence or made huge leaps in determining intent.
This would not be good for the league and it would definitely be the end of Goodell.
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By: brenenostler https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950598
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 16:09:25 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950598Well as John Clayton put it, Vilma would have taken the offer “in a heartbeat” if it had been made to him. And I’ll take his word over anyone’s on here. So I doubt the offer was made.
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By: redman6ft4 https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950569
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:58:21 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950569@thejuddstir,
When you don’t hear Benson…..Payton…..Williams arguing or threatening to sue the league, it means there is something but yet saints fans would rather believe the spin that the lawyers put out there. Also, if it were so clear that the league was wrong, Judge Judy wouldn’t have to be searching high and low for a “reason” to rule in Vilma’s favor now would she? Judge Judy knows she needs something substantial (which 2 months later she hasn’t found yet) to rule in Vilma’s favor because the Federal Appeals Court is going to otherwise overrule her prejudical ruling. It’s really not that difficult to understand but for saints fans it’s easier to believe the innuendo, spin and threat of lawsuits as proof of “real evidence” of innocence. I especially like the posts about “Vilma said he didn’t do it and 7 other saints players signed affidavits supporting that claim”. ……. kind of like someone robbing a bank and his entire family signs an affidavit saying he didn’t do it, LMAO

1. Benson will handel this in a manner that we the public will not hear about it till later.
2. Payton and Williams are still at the mercy of Goodell any negative comment about the so called “Bount” will extend their punishments
3. Last, all the eveidence the NFL claimed to have aganist the players does not match their claim. the letters, the tape, Roger get’s the C’MON MAN award!!!!!!

The league already has their admission of the ‘pay for performance’ program that was in place. If they were going to go your route, they’d have to be holding out for the players and coaches to admit to what the nfl* says they did.
Since it didn’t occur the way the nfl* insists it did, that’s simply not going to happen.

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By: kokomike https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950497
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:27:28 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950497It is in the Saints best interests for all this focus to be on Vilma and the NFL. Once that limelight turns back to the Saints, we will learn that it really was worse than the defense attorneys on this site would like you to believe. Sure is quiet down in the bayou.
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By: sportsmeccabi https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950491
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:25:08 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950491I think Goodell was trying to do the saints a favor by suspending vilma without pay. He’s been garbage the last two years.
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By: rhodeislandpatriotsfan https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950485
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:22:48 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950485I can’t imagine Goodell and the league offering any significant reduction in the player suspension(s) WITHOUT first securing what they deem to be an appropriate admission re: the alleged “pay-for-performance/bounty” program. Otherwise, the Commissioner and the league risk being seen as capitulating in this highly visible, precedent-setting case. And that could conceivably not only work to dilute Goodell’s message about player safety, but it might create a perception that he is weaker authority figure in the wake of this case.

Absent such an admission, I think this litigation should move forward WITHOUT a settlement. Based on the deference the Appeals Panel must show the System Arbitrator under the standard of review set out in the 2011 NFL CBA, Article 15, Section 2(b), I think it is unlikely System Arbitrator Burbank’s ruling affirming Goodell’s jurisdiction will be overturned by that Panel. On the whole, I think that the Fifth Circuit will look favorably on some the legal arguments raised by Goodell and the NFL.

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By: goodellsadouche https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950479
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:15:54 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950479@thejuddstir, you’ve got it all figured out! Vilma should just accept the punishment. Even if there’s no proof. This Commissoner has cherry picked so called evidence, ignored other evidence that might prove him wrong. That is why a Judge is wanting to overturn his decision you f*ckin idiot. The only conspiracy goin on is with the simpletons that still believe that the Shield wouldn’t lie to them!
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By: sfsaintsfan https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950471
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:07:05 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950471The NFL wants to avoid at all cost having Roger Goodell having to testify under oath, either in open court or in a deposition. The man has told so many lies that there is no way he can keep his story straight.

A quote from Mark Twain applies here: “I would rather tell seven lies than make one explanation.”

Roger Goodell has been lying about this whole “bounty” fiasco all along and does not want to have to give an explanation, under oath.

Vilma very likely has a big choice to make very soon. He can take the best deal he can get from the NFL. Maybe an 8 game suspension, maybe a little less, or he can go “all in” and force the issue. He risks losing everything, but the ultimate pay-off could be the eventual firing of Roger Goodell and exoneration of the Saints players, coaches and organization. Big choice to make by one man. I hope he makes the right one, I just don’t know which one that is…..

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By: richndc https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950460
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 14:56:43 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950460Amazing, you keep digging and digging at this story. All it seems to do is make those who feel like New Orleans has been unfairly punished feel vindicated, while the rest of us would likely be happier with another story of ANY KIND, whatsoever. What happened to manning up, being responsible? Admit whatever you did and taking whatever punishment is meted out. No reasonable person buy the BS that this all came out of the clear blue sky and the Saints are being villified by Gooddell because he has to prove a point, he is a bully, a dictator, whatever. C’mon MAN!!! enough already. damn
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By: honkeyt https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950458
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 14:53:24 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950458“Don’t worry about it, Bill. Bring the evidence up to my office and I will burn it myself”

-Roger Goodell-

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By: calv23 https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950434
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 14:38:03 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950434How many times do Goodell & the NFL’s PR department need to get caught red-handed in a lie before people realize that their job is to be a sociopathic machine set to maximize profits, & crush the pushback from labor, media, & fans?
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By: jouvernile https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950425
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 14:34:50 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950425this is starting to get like a couple school girls going back and forth, they gave an offer, no we didn’t, yes you did, no we didn’t….who flippin cares stop writing about BS until you have something tangible to write about.
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By: packhawk04 https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/league-again-denies-that-it-made-vilma-an-offer/#comment-1950418
Thu, 23 Aug 2012 14:32:15 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1118853#comment-1950418“The NFL could risk alienating a person who will make important decisions very soon.”

Wouldnt want to upset someone whose mind is already made up, would you? The NFL knows what this judge will do. Anything and everything for the players. The NFL knows the appeals court will do the right thing and laugh in the players face.