Teen charged as adult in Ballard murder

Posted by Geeky Swedes on July 30th, 2009

The teenager accused of killing Manish Melwani on Sunday at the Pit Stop is being charged as an adult, according to the Seattle Times.
The Times says 17-year-old Elijah Hall is now facing first degree murder charges. Charging papers say that Hall was seen at the scene where the suspect’s clothes were found Sunday evening and he talked with detectives. Hall gave them his address and told them that he had heard two gunshots that morning. On Monday, the state crime lab matched fingerprints found inside the convenience store to Hall. The teen was arrested later that day.

I don't sympathize with criminals. But I do believe that Seattle Times article is written irresponsibly. The third paragraph states:

“Footage from a surveillance camera inside the Pit Stop Express showed Hall entering the empty store at 6:28 a.m. while Melwani was in the back room. Video from the store shows him wearing a dark-colored beanie cap with the snowboard-designer name “Burton” printed in gold”

Hold on: Mr. Hall was CHARGED with and implicated in this crime. But he has not been CONVICTED by anyone other than the Seattle Times. The “suspect” entered the store wearing the clothes described here. But until Hall is convicted, it is erroneous to name him as the actual killer. This is Journalism 101 stuff, folks. Innocent until proven guilty.

I truly look forward to justice prevailing in this case, which is an ugly, unfortunate, brutal occurrence. But this shoddy reporting is ridiculous. Don't believe me? Ask Richard Jewell.

Actually, I just re-read the Times article (or it was updated since my post) and this paragraph is prefaced by “according to the court charging record.” But by refusing to put the charging-record section in quotations, we're left to wonder if the author paraphrased it herself or if we're reading the charging record verbatim. Lame.

Yeah I noticed that too. It's difficult to leave fingerprints through gloves.He was seen where the clothes were dumped, questioned and picked up later.If I was in that store, my prints could be on the door, the counter, etc. Not saying that he's not the guy, hopefully it's clearer than it looks to be.

An associate has some interesting questions about the house, the other teens that frequent it, and what is happening with that issue as well. Are they investigating the role of others? Are charges pending for the other teens arrested? And what about this father allowing this kind of environment to develop in his home, especially given the behavior of this punk and his thug buddies last summer?

You guys are being too harsh on him.I went to school with him at Ingraham and he was the jokster and everyone liked his personallity.Also he was a good track star who could've went to college if he kept his grades up.Did you know he accidentally pulled the trigger and now hes on suicide watch.Yeah, he's so regretful and I know he didn't mean it.Anybody could've done this so stop dissin' him and just notice he was a good kid.Do your reseach before makin' false statements saying he should be off the streets.Typical Ballard, i've always hated that area…

Umm he was gettin' desperate so he needed some money.The stupid part was that he loaded the gun and had the safety off.Also, you need a gun to rob a bank so he went in.I don't think he wanted to kill someone but unfortunately it happend.Finally, he made one slip up and people think he's caused trouble all his life.If you knew his personality you would know it was an accident but you have never seen him in your life so keep your mouth shut.I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished, I'm saying you guys should calm down with all this hanging shit.

All you guys are too paranoid.I was at the summer school at Ballard HS the time he “assulted someone”.I bet the whole story was blown out of proportion like the cops always seem to do because nothin' popped off at Ballard last July.Also, I'm not his friend at all.I had some classes with him and it's hard not to learn and detect his personality…Sammy, you need a reality check and you need to stop judging a person after one post calling me a scumbag.Keep your cranky comments to yourself because nobody wants to hear it.I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished, (have to say it twice cause people are talking like I want him to be free.Read next time) I'm saying that you guys want to hang him which is ludacris.He's 17.

Terry, I want to thank you for posting. You are so clearly a morally bankrupt fool, it helps to understand what kind of person your buddy must have been too. Keep posting, this really helps to see what defines scumbags vs. decent human beings.

How come every time someone identifies themselves as a Seattle public school kid on myballard.com they can barely string a logical sentence together with proper spelling and grammar? Are all the kids in the system in Ballard this dumb or just a few? Should I be seriously thinking about sending the kids to private school?

Sammy: “lets change the subject because I have no more things to talk about on the murder investigation”.Get a life and stop making up random things to get me on the edge of my seat.Do you get a thrill over talking to people like that hypocrite? Maybe you should get some education because clearly you have no common sense and have no idea what you're talking about.You call me a “morally bankrupt fool” when you can't even listen to what people have to say and can't comprehend any of your life lessons it seems as well.

Again, he is not my “friend”.I've had some classes with him and participated in some football with him.As for the family, I'm deeply sorry for their loss and I hope they can someday forgive Elijah.It seemed like the victim just bought a new car and was about to get married so the loss couldn't of come at a worser time.

Those are the only two stupid things you can think he did that day? How about going to rob a store? How about pulling out the gun? How about pointing the gun? How about being a lazy SOB and not getting money the way civilized people do: by earning it?

But, you know the truth I guess, that he shot Manish twice, accidently both times.

The moment he took a loaded gun into that store, the moment he shot a well loved clerk, that's when we got the right to judge him. And those who try to justify his actions that morning. And please don't roll out with that 'he's 17' crud. That's old enough to know better.

chances are w/ a mind set like terry206, he too will have encounters w/seattle finest. and i find terry206 just as illiterate as mr. hall. buddy, turn your life around now. don't excuse ANYTHING mr. hall has done and realize, friend or not, that what his intent was, it got him nowhere. hey, i could use an extra buck or two too but i'm not going to pull the stunt he did. pure common sense and human decency.

So T206- you say you don't know him well but then you say he is regretful. You contradict yourself a few times. Either way you need to accept that you are not a good judge of character. At 17 one is old enough and should be mentally developed enough to know that if you pick up a gun and walk anywhere in public, you have crossed a line and are inviting and accepting certain outcomes. The time it took to load that gun was enough time to reconsider. The time it took to put on the 'disguise' and walk over was plenty of time for the little voice of morality to kick in. Would you feel the same if the person he shot innocently by accident was your father or brother? Give him a hug because he was just hard up for cash.

I really hope that you reconsider your posts and give this serious thought. If nothing else, learn that when you take a gun out on the street, things often go sideways with irrevocable, permanent consequences. Hopefully you will make better decisions when/if you need cash. The life you save may be your own.

He needed some money…did he consider getting a JOB? Or perhaps moving back in with his parents?

“Also, you need a gun to rob a bank so he went in.”Well, Einstein, that's what comes of playing too many violent video games.“…it was an accident…”Accident? He shot him TWICE. He aimed a loaded gun at another human being and shot him TWICE. That was no accident. And he was already charged with robbery and assault. “the cops have it out of proportion, like they always do….” Well, that's a nice little justification for criminal behavior.

Terry, they do hang people here. They also have lethal injection.

I'm just hoping that he didn't procreate, so as to pass his genes along.

This was not an “accident.” This “kid” procured a gun (where did he get it?) loaded it, dressed up in a disguise, walked into a store, and shot the clerk twice. This was premeditated, and it's first-degree murder.

Terry, here's a life lesson you need to learn: actions have consquences. Life is not a video game. The law doesn't care about your 'personality”. The law doesn't care that he was 17…it wouldn't matter if he was 15, WA State law has NO minimum age that someone cannot be tried as an adult.

I love how so many people are making crazy rash character judgements on T206 just because he's sort of defending a guy in a situation none of you know the full details of.

Maybe he's young and doesn't have the ultimate life experiences that you all have had that allow you to know everything about everybody else in the world…but calling him a scumbag and making 100% baseless accusations about his character is just ridiculous.

PS: I fully realize that “accusations about his character” doesn't really make sense, so let's please NOT jump on me for that and assume I'm a scum bag idiot who deserves to be executed for a poor grasp on the English language. kthx

Spelling is not your forte, stay in school. Ludicrous? At 17 (barely 17) he made the decision to move in with his girlfriend in Ballard. He made the decision to obtain a weapon, don a disguise, commit a robbery, and commit murder.

The law does not take age into account as a mitigating factor. It doesn't matter if you are 17 or 85; this is still a state with capital punishment for murderers. This isn't a video game; you don't get a “do-over.” You don't get time off for having a fun personality.

Oh, I'm sure he's regretful- regretful that he got caught. And I'm pretty sure the family of the victim is never, ever going to forgive Elijah Hall. He was their only son, their only source of support, and some “kid” gunned him down like a rabid dog because he was “desperate for money.” The sense of entitlement in that sentence is mind-boggling. I'm with the other posters, terry205, you are morally bankrupt. Look up that phrase in the dictionary.

I judge t206 the way I judge everyone on forums. With what they tell me by what they write. By what they choose to show me about themselves. I did not make unfounded baseless assumptions about this person. I carefully read their own statements. Anyone over…let's say 14, should know that walking into any business with a GUN is a really bad idea. For themselves. To stick up for 'the suspect' with the arguments t206 did show that this person could be on a parallel path.

'crazy, rash, etc.'huh, based on what he said, he does have some serious character issues.Reread his posts, please.If not for the adults, or responsible kids is this neighborhood, how is he supposed to see the error of his beliefs???

His first post contained the following.“Umm he was gettin' desperate so he needed some money”Been there, as most have, and no trail of dead bodies as a result.

“The stupid part was that he loaded the gun and had the safety off.”Oh, the stupid part wasn't THE 17 YEAR OLD HAD A HANDGUN?

“Also, you need a gun to rob a bank so he went in.I don't think he wanted to kill someone but unfortunately it happend.”First, this wasn't an f'ing bank, dummy. Second, you don't 'need a gun' to be a two-bit punk thief. Banks will hand it over if you simply imply that you are armed. Third, 'unfortunate' would be the defense of such blatant irresponsibility as to be in that store, with a gun, at 6:30am, and no job application in hand.

Finally, Terry206, you'd better take a good hard look at your perspectives. You are headed for a life of hell and misery.“Finally, he made one slip up and people think he's caused trouble all his life.”Whether that's true or not, buddy, that's all it takes. One time of being an idiot, is too many times of being an idiot. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.That was just one post from this poor diluted moron. Lay off.If you think you could handle this better, chime in.

I said “sort of defending” because he states multiple times that he knows what this kid did is wrong and he should be punished for it. The way I took his posts is that he's just trying to get people to stop being so reactionary and “locals with pitchforks”-y.

I think you're really over-simplifying how somebody could wind up accidentally shooting somebody in a hold up. Maybe he went into it fully NOT expecting to shoot the guy, but he got in over his head and freaked out and shot him. If you're gonna shoot somebody once and you're freaked out, and/or just pumped full of adrenaline, I could see how you might shoot them again after the first shot.

I'm not saying he hasn't made some severe bad life decisions, and doesn't deserve whatever he gets for the crime, but you're acting as though he went into the situation fully expecting to kill that person and that the only course his life was going to take was that of a hardened criminal. Maybe that is the case – I don't know. But you don't either.

And, under-educated does NOT = a person of bad character, who is probably 2 steps away from killing somebody himself. Surely you realize that? C'mon.

This is what really p*sses me off the most. Manish and his family came here from India, no doubt with nothing, and worked there butts off to get the American dream. Then along comes Mr Entitlement Terry206, and the scumbag murderer, who think it's acceptable to write: “he was gettin' desperate so he needed some money” on a public blog.

What also p*sses me off is that the few times I went to this shop and was served by Manish I never really talked to him. He was the sweetest guy in the world by the looks of it, hard working and always friendly. I wish just once I'd taken the time to talk to him.

Anybody could have done this? No, that's patently not true. Anyone with any moral compass at all would not have obtained a gun, donned a disguise, set out to rob a business, and shot the clerk twice.

“…just notice he was a good kid.”No, he was NOT a good kid. Again, patently untrue. He was a person with a previous record for assault and robbery. He ramped it up to armed robbery and murder.

“Do your research before making false statments that he should be off the streets>..” What about that statement is false? This is not a logical statement.I not only believe (as will the courts) that he should be off the street, but that he is in fact, taking up too much oxygen.

BTW, you should be in summer school : your spelling and grammer is terrible. “could've went to college?“worser”?

but to your point of all of the focus this kid needs.I agree that rational adults should be concerned, but then again I agree that rational adults should behave as rational adults as well.

do you find that angry name calling is the proper approach of reaching today's youth? i'm not saying we hold hands and sing kumbaya or anything like that, but consistently slinging insults and ganging up oh him like an angry mob will most likely be less than well received. your message is lost in its own delivery.

poke fun at his grammar (or grammer) and spelling all you want, but he is a product of our school system and somebody is passing him.

I'd like to think that you mean time should be spent on these kids to show them love, set them straight, and educate them…

But I have a feeling it's something more along the lines of “do whatever it takes to wipe these scum bags off the face of the planet because they have no value or worth as human beings whatsoever and never will”.

Hooboy… gonna walk the knife edge here for a second and hopefully not get cut.First, this is an absolutely horrible crime, and the worst thing that could have happened to Manish and his family. I feel so sorry for them, the grief, their lives turned upside down and now they'll spend the rest of their lives wondering what could have been for the son they lost.I feel the anger of the community over such a senseless loss. You can read that anger right here. I was shocked when I heard about it, a cold blooded murder in our neighborhood. I hoped the police would catch the perpetrator, and was relieved when they did. I read the stories yesterday where the circumstances of the crime were given in more detail, that Elijah Hall was trying to open the cash drawer while Manish was in the back room. It seemed that this was a very different crime than the one we first imagined, that someone walked in and shot Manish twice in order to rob the store. With so little information at first, I was even wondering if this was something personal, like a psychotic customer trying to get even or something more bizarre. But no, it was a simple robbery that ended in cold blooded murder. Inexcusable.For Terry206 this is a different story, finding out that someone he knows, if only on a superficial basis, is the monster that the town has been searching for. It's hard to come to terms with that and then read all the comments about giving him enough rope. Hopefully he takes some time to consider what happened here and the result for the victim's family and learns something from this. I don't think that T206 condones the murder, but also I doubt he fully grasps the moral implications of justifying it. I wonder if people realize that any detour into criminality has these kinds of consequences. For Elijah there were a lot of bad decisions and character flaws that put him where he is now. I don't excuse them and I don't have any sympathy for him, but neither will I be making any veiled rape jokes or death wishes at him. He knew what he was doing and he didn't want it to end up like it did, but that's the choice he made and now he has to live with the consequences.There's a lot of real people involved in this. The horror of being shot dead at your job is one Manish never wanted and I doubt that Elijah really wanted it either, but he is nonetheless responsible for it. Let's take a moment before attacking people and making petty remarks to think about what we're saying here.My sympathies and condolences to the Melwani family. My thoughts are with you.

At 17, my grandfather had come to Ballard from Sweden and gotten himself a job. (he came with his brothers and cousins at the age of 14.)At 17, my grandmother was attending Lincoln HS and helping out working in the family store in Fremont. At 17, my paternal grandfather was going to HS and working on the family farm in Eastern WA. At 17, my mom was working part-time in a grocery store in Fremont to help suport her family during the Depression. (and going to Lincoln HS.)At 17, my dad was working in his family business (while at BHS) during the Depression. At 17, I was in college and working almost full-time. At 17, my sister was in college, and working part-time, on the UW crew team, and working full time in the summer as a camp counselor and lifeguard.At 17, my brother had bought himself a car with his paper-route money and was working in the summer on a fishing boat.At 17, several of my friends were working at Ballard Blossom and Ballard Library.At 17, several of my friends were working on their family's fishing boats in Alaska.

Compare and contrast with Elijah Hall, who at 17 , decides that he's “desperate for money” and decides to get money by armed robbery. A kid who at 15 or 16 had already been charged with assault and robbery.

A good kid who had a “slip up”? I think not. More like a punk kid with an enormous sense of entitlement, who decides to “get money” by criminal means.

So am I, and with the exception of the occasional typo, I learned not only to read and write but also not commit murder, assault, armed robbery etc.

Sorry, these kids are classic examples of entitlement syndrome. A syndrome that is encouraged by people who teach these kids that they are poor 'because of someone else'; they have a tough life 'because of someone else'; they are criminals 'because of society'. Never, ever hold them responsible for their positions in life.

Then these thugs go out and murder folks, in this case a man who came to this country to take control of his life and work hard:

Ahhhhhh but Jules, you know how it works today, your success is directly responsible for this scum bag's poverty and suffering. Everytime your family worked hard and took a 'bite from the pie', little Elijah Hall and his buddies got a smaller and smaller slice.

where did i say i wanted to hug-a-thug? and since you're so helpful and concerned what do you do to help the situation besides rail off at teens on the internet? what do you think you'll accomplish with the name calling and immature behavior. you're providing a shining example of what these “thugs” as you call them can grow up into.

you can add your name to the list. i can't believe you want to somehow defend this potentially up and coming athlete. he made his bed. it sounds like he was getting all the hugs he needed. he screwed up and your need to want to find a decent person deep down inside mr. hall seems fruitless. i hope you're first to visit him while he's locked up to hold his hand when he needs a friend.

stupid doesn't equal illiterate and in your anger you're not being considerate of those you're maligning. there are many illiterate people who aren't “stupid” as you like to say, and to lump those who are truly illiterate in with murderous trash is irresponsible. i don't know why you're so upset with me when all I did was kindly ask you to consider the words you sling around (at teenagers, lets not forget.)

quoting you:“you can add your name to the list. i can't believe you want to somehow defend this potentially up and coming athlete. he made his bed. it sounds like he was getting all the hugs he needed. he screwed up and your need to want to find a decent person deep down inside mr. hall seems fruitless. i hope you're first to visit him while he's locked up to hold his hand when he needs a friend.”

I would love to know how my suggesting that the supposed adults on this forum who feel charged with teaching kids right and wrong feel that name calling and baseless accusations consider their actions is in any way supporting this kid?

i'm sorry you got offended that i called you out for your misuse of “illiterate” as a slight against this kid, but your accusation is baseless and offensive to the truly illiterate.

he did make his bed and i feel he truly deserves to lie in it. read every post I've written and show me where I've said otherwise. Just because I'm suggesting rational thought and for adults to behave as such you assume i'm some apologist for a murderer, which only goes to prove how little you're paying attention and how much you're spewing words based on emotion.

as for my search to find a good person deep down in Mr. Hall. you're mistaken. I”m actually trying to find the decent people in the name calling adults on this forum. (and the fact that i'm trying indicates that i believe there's goodness in each of you.)

IF you feel so strongly for the kids, please show up at Ballard Brothers this weekend between 11am and 6pm and help the Global Youth Project raise money for Hoops for Hope, which raises money for victims of gun violence. Put your money and your actions where your mouth is and step away from the computer and the hatred it allows you to spew.

Honestly, I hope he does manage to kill himself. It was NOT an accident! He went in there and deliberately pointed a gun at an innocent person. You do that you deserve whatever happens to you. There is absolutely NO excuse to rob someone, let alone shoot them.

“Anybody could've done this” Huh?? You're a moron. This might come as a shock to a whining little punk like you but most people actually manage to go their entire lives without pointing a gun at someone for no legitimate reason.

Couldn't keep his grades up?? Are you kidding? Sorry but schools these days are a joke. If you can't get decent grades you're not trying.

That you seem to regard this as nothing more than an accident pretty much tells me your a loser too (well that and your inability to spell!)

Also this wasn't his first slip up according to the police records. Again, this might come as a shock to a loser like yourself but most people manage to live their whole lives without resorting to violence.

Finally, I spent 10 years in the Army and have fired tens of thousands of rounds out of everything from handguns to a 120mm tank cannon. There is NO way you accidentally shoot someone TWICE!! No way. The first shot? Maybe you can claim your finger slipped. Twice? Forget it.

Given your clear lack of judgment I'm sure it's just a matter of time before we'll be reading about your brilliant exploits. Just hope the cops catch you before you too kill someone.

So what that he's 17. When I was 17 I was in the Army learning how to be a responsible adult. I was given the responsibility of driving a 70 ton tank and carrying automatic weapons and making life and death decisions. Sorry but at 17 you know the difference between right and wrong.

I could care less what that guy thinks. You know, at 17, one of my uncles lied about his age (he was 6″4'), joined the Navy, and went off to fight in the South Pacific.

The point I was trying to make was that in our generation, and in previous generations here in Ballard, 17 was considered old enough to be an “adult” and to make adult decisions, and carry adult responsibilities.

And if it were my kid who was already in trouble with the law at 15, or 16, I certainly wouldn't be letting him move in with a girlfriend. He'd probably be packed off to a military boarding school. Allowing him to move out shows a lack of parental responsibility and accountability.

It is this kind of attitude that perpetuates this type of behavior; a lack of accepting responsibility for what one has done. He shot accidentally? Did he also slam the poor man's face into the counter hard enough to break glass accidentally? Did he enter the store WITH the gun accidentally. If he has confessed and if he feels remorseful it is too late for that. It is certainly way too late for the poor victim and his family. The vicitm was simply EARNING a small (probably) wage the moral and correct way; by having a job. He should not have died for that, your friend deserves everything that happens to him as a result of his thoughtlessness, accident or not.

I live in Lake City and from all these comments from “myballard.com” makes me think Ballard is beautiful on the outside but dull and stupid deep down inside.Some are even willing to say I'M GOING DOWN A WRONG PATH.Listen to yourselfs! I have a clean record and I go to Ingraham High School, one of the most educated schools in Seattle because of their IB program.Check yourselfs before judging a book not even on its cover if you know what I mean and grow up.

I always get a chuckle out of this pining for the 'good old days' when everything was just swell. Not like Ballard ave wasn't one big brothel, or the Jesse James gang, Bonnie and Clyde, Al Capone, etc weren't famous for their crime sprees, and back then a man could run the 'Injuns' off the land and take it for himself and buy some slaves to work it.Our history is replete with horrible events and twisted logic that allowed the horrors to continue. People robbed others, people killed other people too, and all sorts of people committed lesser acts of stupidity on a regular basis.We're making some progress in places, and maybe less in others, but don't think for a second that this sort of thing didn't happen in the good old days.

What on earth does “the most educated schools in Seattle” mean? Does that mean the teachers have the highest level of education? Or that it gives you the best education? Or that a higher percentage of its graduates go on to colllege? Judging by your English skills, you aren't a great advertisement. What is an “IB program?” Trust me, if you are now a senior in High School, you're going to have to do better than that to get into college. (For the record, I went to BHS and my SO went to Ingraham.) (P.S. it's “yourselves.”)

I have no idea if you are “going down a wrong path”, but your thinking that robbery and murder is a “slip up” makes me believe that somewhere, your moral education is lacking.

Well, there WERE brothels in Ballard (most notably where the Sunset Hotel is now, which was “The Harvey Rooms” and the vacant lot next door, but Ballard was not “one big brothel.” There were a LOT of bars here, BUT there were also a lot of churches. (BTW, no truth to the myth that there was some sort of edict that there had to be as many churches as brothels. The UW did a documentary on it….and I wrote a book about it.)

Sure, there has always been crime, and there has always been murder. (starting, I guess, with Cain and Abel.) But our little quadrant of the galaxy has been pretty free of murder until fairly recently. And this episode is particularly shocking because of the age of the perpetrator, and because it was a “senseless killing”. (not that all murder isn't senseless, but this one was particularly heinous. )

I think you'd have to look pretty hard in the archives for another robbery with a murder in Ballard, unlike, say, Columbia City.

This comment didn't make it because of a “computer error” a couple of days ago. Since terry206 continues, it is still appropriate today:

While Sammy1981 had some very harsh things to say here, I have to say I agree with him. This was not some “little thing” mistake that happened to Elijah. This was cold blooded murder that took the life of a good innocent guy at 28 YO, who was working for a living and helped his parents.

If Ballard HS students can't relate to how serious this was, they need to learn the difference between right and wrong before coming onto this blog and lecturing folks about “being too hard on him.” Maybe they should look around and see if there are other kids who might need an intervention before getting in over their heads with guns and crime.

Obviously, something is really wrong with our society if young people see a murder like this and their first reaction is sympathy for the killer rather than concern for the victim, his family, and APPROPRIATE JUSTICE & PUNISHMENT for the criminal. Wake up terry206 before it is too late.

Hate to burst your bubble but you are clearly not well educated!! Do yourself a big favor and turn on the spell check function in your browser and also pick up a copy of The Elements of Style. Maybe when you can write a proper, complete sentence people will take you seriously.

It's not just the high school kids who can't put two words together. The last time I had to hire interns a full 1/3 of the resumes I received from recent grads were littered with spelling errors (even though everyone uses Word with spell check!) It doesn't get much better for people who have been in the workforce for a number of years. I had someone with a MBA from UW and working at the Director level put her resume that she had “outstanding atention to detail”!! If you ever wonder why nobody responds to your resume you might want to have someone look it over. If your resume is sloppy it's only fair that I assume the rest of your work is sloppy. I know that sounds harsh but in a competitive job environment that's how it goes.

My dad joined the army several times before he was 18 even making it to Germany before being found out. He did it because he was the man of the house at the time. And yes, desperate to help support his family and his country. Did every teen do the same thing? No.

Elijah Hall shot and killed a man during an armed robbery. Is every other 17 year old doing the same?

I've worked since I understood the concept of getting paid for it. babysitting, mowing lawns, paper routes, etc. I paid cash for my first car. I put myself through college by working full-time and with a full class load. And before you come back and tell me it's because my parents raised me right, explain to me why my sister of the same parents and upbringing was pregnant by 18 and busted for doing coke in a parking lot at 21.

You act as if the only 17 year olds to have ever worked a day in their life are from your generation and the only screw-ups are the youth of today. Have you stopped in any neighborhood shops lately? Who is working there? kids!

Have you heard of the Vera Project? school of rock? 826 Seattle? Have really seen what kids around you are capable of?

Painting everyone with the same brush betrays this picture you like to paint of yourself as someone who is so enlightened and who has seemingly written a book on every topic under the sun.

deep down, i think you're an interesting person. you have a lot of knowledge and have accomplished much, but i can't help but be frustrated by how dismissive you are of others and how you seem to be trapped in the past.

Actually, I do go to many of the shops in Ballard on an almost daily basis, and I don't see too many kids working there. As a matter of fact, several of my friends are shop owners who said that they have a lot of difficulty hiring anyone under 30, because they don't have a well developed work ethic. (and one of those shop owners is in her 30's.) I worked at the UW for 22 years, and over that period of time, each year my (new) assistant became less, and less a product of the work ethic.

But I do see plenty of my friends' kids at 17 and 18 who are working and going to college, and are not robbing convience stores because they are “desperate for money.” But today, at the car wash, some kid about 15 years old asked me if Elijah Hall couldn't “get his parents to pay to get out of this fix. ” Amazing. I think that the generation of kids (like my friend's kids, too) have an enormous sense of entitlement, that our generation didn't…possibly because OUR parents grew up with the Depression and WWII. My point is not that we are the only generation to work hard; my point is that people my age (mind you, not all of them) had kids, who they have “infantalized” by not making them take responsibililty for their actions. There are kids out there who are responsible and dependable; there are kids in the Maritime program at BHS, kids from the Sea Scouts helping out at the barbeque at SeafoodFest, the kids at “Hoops for Hope.” But they seem to be the exception, rather than the rule.

And, yes, I have written a few books.(history)…why should that bother you? You seem threatened by people better educated than yourself.

There is an old adage that says ” Those who ignore history are bound to repeat it.”

I'm sure that this generation will produce hard working, responsible, law abiding citizens. Perhaps you will be one of them. Too bad Elijah Hall isn't one of them.

Just think: he will never go to his HS prom. He won't go to his HS graduation. He probably won't get married- unless it's a jailhouse marriage. He won't be going to college with the rest of his peers; going to football games and parties, and going through college graduation. He won't walk on a beach, have sex with a woman (perhaps a conjugal visit), have children and see them grow up, walk down the aisle with his sweetheart, see a sunset, hang out with his friends, go hiking, ride a bike, or any of the 1001 other things we all take for granted every day…for at least the next 20 years. Tonight, as he's sitting in a jail cell- do you think that HE thinks it was worth it?

Hey SweetRose, I am waiting for someone to say “you're not the boss of me!” Hahahhahaha.

And, BTW, I do in fact blame MY generation for a lot of what the younger generation does…our parents grew up in the Depression and that shaped their world and ours…my generation didn't want their kids to have to work as hard, and in many ways, infantalized their kids. This is of course not true for all parents, and all kids, but it's certainly become more of the norm.

And, yes, I do blame Elijah Hall's parents, at least partially, for his behaviour.

Yeah, totally my english is bad.Its a random forum, not the SAT's so calm down.Also, the IB program is like honors to a higher and more difficult degree.Finally, it was a slip up! He didn't go in there wanting to kill a innocent clerk.He was just in the moment and he wasn't thinking clearly.”Lets all agree with our fellow neighbors and hang the low life!”…Wow.Oh yeah, LA is one of my premier subjects and I'm probably going to major in journalism in college while you guys are critiqueing people on their grammar in a forum.Look, I didn't want to start a big argument over this kid I went to school with.I wanted to state my opinion without getting ridiculed and I guess I was wrong.You defend everyone exept me even if someone suggests that he needs to be hanged.Come on, be reasonable and don't get carried away here.Please don't say it was on purpose and maybe all you guys should go pick up a copy of 48 laws of power while you're at it!

For the record…Humble does not equal silent, nor does it imply a lack of opinion, an unwillingness to share it, or fear of rebuke from others.I live my life with humility, but I've taken no vow of silence.Sorry if my posts mislead you.

Totally stupid, totally a punk, totally slaughtered an innocent human being, on purpose. His choices led to this outcome. Deny it all you want, that is the truth.I certainly hope that you aren't as willing to throw your life in the trash heap, terry206, but defending this scum, portraying him as anything but a thug, and maligning the folks outraged by his behavior is a lousy way to show personal responsibility, morals, or any educational development.

If you are planning on studying journalism in college, you might want to start by studying English a bit harder in High School Really. I'm not trying to be mean; but I assure you that journalism is all about correct English, pretty much the same way engineering is all about math. Do yourself a favor . i congratulate you on your college plan, but really, drop the ghetto=speak like “dissed” and “worser”. “Finally, it was a slip up.”No, it was NOT a “slip up.” A slip up is forgetting to fill up your gas tank. A slip up is forgetting to take out the garbage. A slip up is missing a dentist appointment. A slip up is oversleeping and missing your bus. From dicttionary.com: slip-up /ˈslɪpˌʌp/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [slip-uhp] Use slip up in a Sentence–noun a mistake, blunder, or oversight: “Several slip-ups caused a delay in the delivery of the books. ”

This was a premediated crime. He obtained a gun, donned a disguise, loaded that gun, and walked into that store with the express purpose of robbing it. He shot the clerk TWICE. This was not a slip up. It was not an accident. Perhaps he didn't mean to kill the clerk, but when you rob a store with a loaded gun, that's going to be an obvious outcome. It may not have been the outcome Elijah Hall had wanted (I think somewhere he said that he had plananed to shoot the clerk in the leg) but it was in fact, premedidated. He got that gun…on purpose. He loaded that gun on purpose. He set out to rob that store, on purpose. Each of these actions was deliberate, and premeditated.

From dictionary.compre⋅med⋅i⋅tat⋅ed /prɪˈmɛdɪˌteɪtɪd/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pri-med-i-tey-tid] Use premeditated in a Sentence–adjective done deliberately; planned in advance: a premeditated murder

While he may not have premeditated the muder per se, he defintely premeditated the robbery. He didn't get that gun “in the moment” nor did he don a disguise “in the moment.” And while I'm sure that he has many endearing personality traits, so did Ted Bundy. That does not change the fact that he set out to commit a crime. The fact that the outcome is not perhaps what he expected does not alter the fact that a man is dead because of his actions, and nothing will bring him back.

Terry, I'm not exactly sure what your purpose for posting on Myballard.com is, I can only imagine your empathy for a former class mate has you here looking for sympathy. Unfortunately the severity of his crime does not lend well to much sympathy. The only thing you will get here is a lot of righteous chest puffing. Save us all some time and write a letter to your favorite news paper on this issue. And to the frequent readers/trolls on Myballard.com: let's leave the judgment to the court system.

Yeah, we trust that completely. NOTE- The court system isn't exactly the arbiter of morality. More likely it's the arbiter of enabling.How many 'Honor Students' have gotten off for killing someone? Need I remind us all of the Tuba Man?Yeah, each of those punk thugs got a hand slap.No wonder this poor diluted moron thinks that his buddy deserves a break…Sure, talk him down if you want to.Either way, he needs an f'ing clue, or, he's going down.Still, his choice.

I don't think that what best represented that era of this region is anything to see let slip away.Poke holes all you want. Evil has always existed.Which side are you on, anyhow?Back then, people ate what they had.How they got it, defined them. It always has, it always will. Oh, but we are SO much more enlightened now.sheeeesh

Sure, there are opportunities for kids to pursue something productive.How many today have another option? Too many.This kind of reality leads to an entitlement mentality. If your only option is to be responsible, you are more likely to be responsible.'Oh, well, one of these days, I'll have to get a job…”I'd call that irresponsible. But I'm an a$$.sheeeesh

Disclaimer, I like Jules2, and I like stopthebuzz, so don't think I'm choosing any side ;-)

I don't think that Elijah Hall would have this level of remorse if he wasn't caught.It is human nature to justify our worst actions and given enough time he would have come up with enough justifications.

Chopper said: “Poke holes all you want. Evil has always existed.Which side are you on, anyhow?…Oh, but we are SO much more enlightened now.sheeeesh”

Since we're getting into the skinny part of the replies, I'm assuming that was directed at me. I'm not on a side unless the two options are good v evil then of course I'll join the superheroes in the League of Justice. Cape size is 17 1/2.I know we have problems around here now, I'm definitely not one of the ones burying my head in the sand, but I just can't accept that everything was somehow better when ______, and now we've messed it all up. Somethings are better and somethings are worse. I hope we can continue to progress on the good things and eliminate more of the bad, but I don't think that all of us acting like it's 1956 or 1963 or 1887 is going to fix anything. Where do we go, and what's the golden era we're supposed to recapture? (fully recognizing the hyperbole danger here) Isn't the taliban's goal to return to the 7th century?

uh, um, how to do this without coming off as a jerk? hmmm, ok, no way to really, but it's been bugging me, so here goes…

diluted = dilute –verb (used with object)1. to make (a liquid) thinner or weaker by the addition of water or the like.2. to make fainter, as a color.3. to reduce the strength, force, or efficiency of by admixture.

deluded = –verb (used with object), -lud⋅ed, -lud⋅ing.1. to mislead the mind or judgment of; deceive: His conceit deluded him into believing he was important.

39 and I have two children, thank you very much. Sorry but this kid needs to pay more attention in school – my 8 year old can write better than terry206. Like I said, he needs to learn how to spell and read through The Elements of Style.

My sarcasm detector is out of batteries, so I have to take that as genuine. I make this same kind of homonym mistake too, as we all do, amongst my more egregious grammatical errors, like overuse of commas, but I'd prefer to be corrected once rather than repeatedly embarrassed. Feel free to call me out on my spelling or grammar too, I won't take offense.

39 years old and you still feel the need to make fun of him, anonymously, on the internet?

What a role model!

I'm in my mid-twenties, and I must say, my version of what an adult was supposed to be, what I thought they were when I was younger has been tainted – not necessarily by you, but by society as a whole. I think it's more of a concept than a reality.

I feel the need to pull out this quote, “Nothing has done more to make us dumber or meaner than the anonymity of the Internet.”

Let's put aside the subject of whether or not the murder was intentional for a moment. You came here wanting to give your point of view. Fair enough. Problem is you did so with the articulation of a dumb street thug. It's hard to take you seriously when you come across that way.

If you admit that “totally my english is bad” how well do you think you'll fare in any respectable journalism program?? University profs are much more demanding than high school teachers. Assuming you graduate you will then face incredibly stiff competition for a job. Universities graduate far, FAR more journalism majors than there are actual journalism jobs. I know because over the years I've hired dozens of writers including journalists who written for the NY Times and The Economist. If you want to get a glimpse of what you're in for get hold of a copy of the NY Times copy editing test. If you score anything less than a 95% you need to seriously hunker down and study.

People who excel at any given field always have one trait in common: they always have their A-game on. Doesn't matter if they're a journalist or a wood carver. If you truly want to be a journalist you need to treat everything you write as if it were the SAT! Having an attitude of “Its a random forum, not the SATs” is only going to drag you down. Doesn't matter if it's just a school essay or just a text message. Trust me, the people who REALLY want to be journalists – the sort of people who apply for James Reston Fellowships with the Times – treat every word they write with equal care.

I'd like to see you succeed if for no other reason than your failing will mean yet one more wasted life and yet another person scraping by, content with their mediocrity. We have way to many mediocre people in this country as it is.

I was actually driving up to the Mountain gravel pit to shoot and sight in my AR-15s. I had just built a Mk12 SPR clone with help from Compass Lake Engineering and Rainier Arms the day before. 6:30 AM going up Market, I saw three cop cars tearing down at 60 miles an hour.

I'm glad Elijah Hall will be charged as an adult and I hope he stays locked up for life or fries. I was broke and stupid when I was 17. I didn't acquire weapons illegally and rob people. I certainly didn't murder anyone either. The excuses people are coming up for his anti-social behavior is a perfect example of the dangers of morale subjectivity. There is right and wrong, and their are consequences for actions. I don't give a shit if you're 30 or 15. You do wrong, you pay the price.

And what the hell is this apologist bullshit. peace and love, stop the hatin, lets help victims of gun violence etc. etc. Are you fucking HIGH? Maybe you haven't been to the UK recently, but guns are banned, and guess what: delinquent teens are still shooting/killing people for stupid reasons, and robberies with knives take place all the time too.

Way to completely forget the use of logic and blame the illegally acquired firearm. I wouldn't have hesitated to ventilate Elijah Hall had I been gassing up my car at that very gas station i frequent. And to think Seattle tried to curb CCW rights last year. Imbeciles. If I had taken 15th that morning instead of 8th…

I'm not an angry or violent person at all, but I do own about $20,000 in high end weapons. My MK-12 SPR alone will cost $5K after factoring optics and other “accessories” for a complete Crane replica. What can I say, i grew up in family proficient with weapons. The ATF has its fair share of tax revenue from me.

Like usual, your kind automatically assumes that physical items drive human behavior, and once again delivers people from responsibility. Funny, and downright hilarious for a camp that tries so hard to drive marijuana legalization. Guns make people turn into violent killers, weed does nothing to affect human behavior. Don't see anyone baking brownies with gun powder though.

As much as I like peace and love, I know enough through my second major (history) to know that there will always. always be evil and sick people in the world. While there are those who are unjustly treated by the criminal justice system, things don't get any more clear with Elijah Hall.

SPG: 'Twas a typo. I noted it, but there is no edit button this forum software. Oh well.

I actually kind of understood where you were coming from with your first rant. Then this:

“Like usual, your kind automatically assumes that physical items drive human behavior, and once again delivers people from responsibility. Funny, and downright hilarious for a camp that tries so hard to drive marijuana legalization. Guns make people turn into violent killers, weed does nothing to affect human behavior. Don't see anyone baking brownies with gun powder though.”

Oh dear god. I guess “Peace and love, stop hatin” is something you can expect from someone who just finished a joint, but what you just stated comes from the guy that drank the bong water. Take it easy turbo!

That doesn't make any sense. Look at your post. You outright state that you never used to go there, not only that, but you avoided the store. Now, since you feel the need to try and be a fucking saint, you actually have the nerve to say donations are being accepted by his family.

I have a store, or two, that I frequent. I did avoid that store for two reasons. This man that was killed wasn't either of those reasons.I feel for his family, that doesn't make me a saint. Mentioning, again, that donations are being accepted for his family doesn't either.You must see the boogy-man too often. Let me guess, he must look like a saint.

Monthly IDPA matches at Renton place scenarios in T-Town and Belltown frequently. I don't think there's been a single scenario placed in Ballard yet. Maybe I should talk to the match director about that ;)

This will be my last reply,not that you'll care.Assuming that it's a bad thing to arm, and defend yourself makes you sound ignorant.Assuming that anyone who does do such, and takes the choice seriously, doesn't make one angry or violent.Of course, you'll find that doesn't satisfy your question. Sorry.

Sorry, one more.G. you aren't the enemy.I know, many folks would assume you are.Sorry for that.Yes, many are armed.Many more are more conservative than they would ever admit.Silence isn't either one of those.I don't like the red/blue crap. The first rule of control is to divide. Too many play along with that game.Get a clue, your neighbor isn't your enemy.

This is an old thread, so I'll probably not come back to it, but for the record…

G.Freeman does come off a little creepy to anyone who isn't into gun porn. That same little riff with all the details about how you're going off to sight your weapons may be very interesting and normal to other gun afficionados, but to the other 99% of the readers it comes off as a weird mix of bragging and threatening, as though you're so into your guns that you can't wait to find yourself in a hero scenario so you can shoot up a 'bad guy'. Name dropping the guns and places makes it sound like an obsessive who can't socialize and know when it's appropriate to talk guns and when it's not. Think Walter Sobchak and ad nauseum references to 'Nam.Not only that but you did drop three different curse words in there as well.I don't think G.Freeman (telling pseudonym btw) is a nut/violent/especially angry person (a bit too into guns) but the post was written from a standpoint of intimidation so you shouldn't be surprised that other people would point it out.