Trouble logging in?If you can't remember your password or are having trouble logging in, you will have to reset your password. If you have trouble resetting your password (for example, if you lost access to the original email address), please do not start posting with a new account, as this is against the forum rules. If you create a temporary account, please contact us right away via Forum Support, and send us any information you can about your original account, such as the account name and any email address that may have been associated with it.

Favorite characters are
Fate-chan: I have this unrelenting desire to protect her. She looks as cute as possible, and her demeanor compliments her features nicely. Not to mention that she is one of the best friends anyone could ever ask for. She puts their lives infront of her own, while dealing with her own traumatizing life. Never pitying herself or loathing, she bares it all while bringing a smile upon her friends faces. Both loli and Milf Fate are love and win. Including that hawt gothic loli battle suit and scythe she wields as a loli and Milf Feitos Riot Zamber form is....
Suffice to say, she is and will always be my favorite character from any anime.

Nanoha-san: She ofcourse, is also very cute. She doesn't quite reach terminal levels of cuteness like Feito, but she takes a solid place as my #2 favorite character. Her assertiveness and unwillingness to back down from a fight is what seperates her from other generic magical girls.

Vita: MSLN's lovely tsundere. The first season I only mildly liked her, but she really grew on me during Strikers. Wanting to protect Nanoha and willing to sacrifice her life for that very cause, was touching to say the least. Truly a great character which I won't soon forget.

Hayate: Poor Hayate was drastically shafted in Strikers, but that won't stop me from loving her. She wields massive amount of power and has one of the coolest looking battle suits ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazghkull

I'm just wondering, the rule for no campaigning...does that include Moe-contests? Because there's one that's pitting Yuki VS Fate that's happening tomorrow, so I'm wondering if that in particular is allowed.

The header post is just referring to campaigning for votes in this threads particular character poll. I'm sure that mentioning Feitos match Vs Yuki Nagato tommorow is perfectly fine. I plan on voting for her, ofcourse. I also plan on letting everyone in the Nanoha Image thread know of the match when her match actually arrives. Must support and campaign for mai Goddess Feito-chan.^^

My favorite character would have to be Nanoha, of course. xD; I just love her personality and her kick butt battle skills... it's true, she is a god.

I also put down Lutecia (though I've very upset we didn't get to see more development in her, I had such high hopes) and Vivio, for her unfathomable cuteness.

Now after voting, I realize I should have voted "other," Fate, and Vita. Since I love them, too. The other's for Agito, of course! :3 Vita's determination to protect Nanoha and Fate's kick butt Riot Zanber were just all win. And then Graf Eisen with DESCTRUCTION MODE! I was like omgwtf (in a good way).

Well, my favorite character would definitely have to be Hayate. I really wish she got more screen time, especially since she didn't get much of a chance in A's until the end, but I can understand that they wanted to focus more on the new forwards. She's such a nice and caring person though, especially with the Wolkenritter in A's and then about Division Six. She really...reminds me of someone I'm close to.

Nanoha and Fate are really cool too, they do a very good job of taking care of the forwards and in A's trying to make friends with the Wolkenritter. Of course they started the whole series too, so can't forget that. xP
Nanoha also reminds me of a really great friend of mine. =D

Of my favorite people in StrikerS, it'd be Subaru at the later part of the series. She was kind of like, naive at first but she had some really good character development later to being able to go up against Ginga.

I dunno, it was hard to choose people after Hayate since they're all really cool for different reasons.

It's spelled Destruction Mode, and a few of my friends (figuratively) cummed in their pants when they saw it XD

Although mind you, all they saw was Graf Eisen transforming into that form XD

Lol, I jumped out of my seat when I saw Fate in her new Sonic Form.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chi-no

Yes. Hayate's time that appear in this series is much too short especially for the actions. Not too much actions for her in this series.

But glad that I like it.

Fate is my favourite. No matter what. But I like this series also. Though not much better than the previous two. But it lead me to watch back the the two previous series.

I too was dissapointed with the lack of show time for Hayate. For me I love Fate, Nanoha and Signum but this season since there were new characters. I voted for Subaru alone because she reminds me of myself .

Well, my favorite character would definitely have to be Hayate. I really wish she got more screen time, especially since she didn't get much of a chance in A's until the end, but I can understand that they wanted to focus more on the new forwards. She's such a nice and caring person though, especially with the Wolkenritter in A's and then about Division Six. She really...reminds me of someone I'm close to.

She not only didn't get screen time, she is remembered mostly for Character Assassination screen time. I should hope that someone you mention is not like Hayate as of StrikerS, or actually a few years leading up to StrikerS...

Frankly if they just didn't want to invest time in her they shouldn't have made her show up. It is perfectly possible, given her present position in the Nanoverse to be like Chrono, far, far away. Negative screen time does not please anyone.

She not only didn't get screen time, she is remembered mostly for Character Assassination screen time. I should hope that someone you mention is not like Hayate as of StrikerS, or actually a few years leading up to StrikerS...

What happened to Hayate in the years leading up to Strikers?

Quote:

Frankly if they just didn't want to invest time in her they shouldn't have made her show up. It is perfectly possible, given her present position in the Nanoverse to be like Chrono, far, far away. Negative screen time does not please anyone.

To be fair, they did invest enough time to finish off their hatchet job. There really isn't any chance of rehabilitation without retconning all of Strikers.

Not mentioned officially, but a veteran officer's performance is largely due to years of preparation, or lack thereof. Hayate's performance in StrikerS strongly implies she has failed completely to prepare in almost every respect for at least several years leading up to her commanding RF6, very likely even leading all the way back to her first day as an officer.

A good officer takes talent. A mediocre officer is effort. Hayate's performance is below mediocre. What does that say about Hayate.

As I once told Chaos, a person's or organization's chosen tactics onscreen reflect their values and competence. Thus, while people are used to giving slack to anime characters, horrible tactics is tantamount to character assassination.

Not mentioned officially, but a veteran officer's performance is largely due to years of preparation, or lack thereof. Hayate's performance in StrikerS strongly implies she has failed completely to prepare in almost every respect for at least several years leading up to her commanding RF6, very likely even leading all the way back to her first day as an officer.

A good officer takes talent. A mediocre officer is effort. Hayate's performance is below mediocre. What does that say about Hayate.

As I once told Chaos, a person's or organization's chosen tactics onscreen reflect their values and competence.

I agree with that completely. I've echoed similar thoughts in other threads. In Hayate's case, I would say that she has suffered from character assassination, as the negative portrayal is consistent, doesn't fit well with past portrayal and is clearly deliberate.

Quote:

Thus, while people are used to giving slack to anime characters, horrible tactics is tantamount to character assassination.

I think that is going a bit far. There should be evidence of intent and malice on the writer's part before coming to that conclusion. Otherwise there is nothing to distinguish it from simple bad writing.

Take Nanoha for example. The writers seem to want to portray her as a great instructor, officer and tactician but all they've provided towards that end is hearsay. In Strikers, what I've actually seen on screen from Nanoha is a lot of poor leadership and tactics, where they exist at all, and the negative results of her instruction. Simple suspension of disbelief would lead me to conclude that Nanoha is a mediocre officer and trainer.

I agree with that completely. I've echoed similar thoughts in other threads. In Hayate's case, I would say that she has suffered from character assassination, as the negative portrayal is consistent, doesn't fit well with past portrayal and is clearly deliberate.

I think that is going a bit far. There should be evidence of intent and malice on the writer's part before coming to that conclusion. Otherwise there is nothing to distinguish it from simple bad writing.

Take Nanoha for example. The writers seem to want to portray her as a great instructor, officer and tactician but all they've provided towards that end is hearsay. In Strikers, what I've actually seen on screen from Nanoha is a lot of poor leadership and tactics, where they exist at all, and the negative results of her instruction. Simple suspension of disbelief would lead me to conclude that Nanoha is a mediocre officer and trainer.

Has Nanoha had her character assassinated?

As I said, because we understand that 1) anime producers are not (famous general here) reincarnate and 2) SoDwise, there may be some obscure factors affecting tactics that we don't know about, we tend to give their characters great slack before we jump to the Incompetent / Character Assassination conclusion. It is definitely an unhappy conclusion no one wants to make.

By your standard, you can't even say they character assassinated Hayate, since they did seem to want to portray her as a good, though budding (which is still wrong when one considers this is her 10th year in the paramilitary) commander - the fact that they kept portraying the inverse from about Ep7 on notwithstanding. Yet we both agree it is character assassination.

Spoiler for Enjoy the Length and Stiltedness:

In Nanoha's case, it definitely wasn't flattering, but:Duties as Instructor
1a) The canon shows effort.
1b) The canon shows no development in the level of tactical and moral-psychological training, but substantial improvements in combat skill equivalent to at least one full mage rank, as verified by enemy evaluation, results of mock combat and the real combat, which while sloppy (due to the lack of tactical and moral-psychological training) did end with their victory due to a mixture of luck and combat skill.
1c) The canon has described her experience, which implies that Nanoha probably has little experience (and thus readiness) to deal with her expanded responsibilities of Tactical (in the English, not Midchildran definition) and Moral-Psychological trainer.
1d) The conclusion is that Nanoha, pushed into a role that she was not properly qualified for, executed her task in the only way she knew how. She proved to be reasonably effective in the task she was experienced in, and the overall product, while hardly a success, proved marginally adequate to the task.

Duties as Commander
2a) Her daily responsibility to ensure the readiness of her subunit is arguably untenable due to Factor 1C and her extra duty as Instructor (which seems to take up most of her time). Fate is presumably in a similar situation due to her extra duty as Investigator.
2b) Her combat responsibility of troop control is complicated by both Factor 1C and the unrealistic unit organization which bears no resemblance to Operational reality, resulting in the near impossibility of positive troop control.
2c) Under the circumstances, the Subunit Commanders' (Fate and Nanoha) decision, after the first battle of the unit (Ep5), to create a new ad hoc ground squad organization and delegate control to the initiative of senior, most tactically competent member of their ground units for the duration of combat is probably correct.

Combatant
3a) In Ep5, Nanoha operated in accordance to the Concept of Battle of the Unit Commander commanding from the Command Post.
3b) In Ep7, Nanoha operated under the Direct Control of the Unit Commander commanding from a Command Observation Point.
3c) In Ep9, Nanoha operated in accordance to the Decision (made after conferring with staff) of the Unit Commander commanding from the Command Post.
3d) In Ep12, Nanoha operated under the Direct Control of the Unit Commander from a Command Observation Point.
3e) In Ep16-17, Nanoha operated under the failure of Troop Control due to the effective negligence of the troop control system by the Unit Commander.
3f) In Ep21-26, Nanoha operated under the supervision of the Unit Commander commanding from the Forward Command Point. The poor decision to split up is at the strong insistence of her subunit's deputy commander, in accordance to the Concept of Battle of her Unit Commander (as well as what passes for TSAB Doctrine), and not overriden by the supervising Unit Commander.

Responsibility
1a) The responsibility for selecting Nanoha for the job of Instructor, despite the requirements and reality of Factor 1C, is the responsibility of the Unit Commander, who apparently was given wide powers to select the optimum personnel.
1b) Alternatively, the selection of Nanoha for the job of Instructor may be adequate if the Unit Commander spends some time on Commander's and Tactical Training to complement the instructor's limitations. This was not done, perhaps because the Unit Commander feels it un-necessary or worse, perhaps because she lacks the ability and/or confidence to do so.
1c) The cause is likely due to assuming Tactics (戦術) = Martial/Combat Skills (戦技), an assumption probably prompted by the Midchildran lexicon (see Nanoha's ID card and compare to Japanese), but nevertheless ignorant and indicative of a poor level of professional developmen on the part of the Unit Commander.

2) The responsibility for 2A (overtasking) 2B (unrealistic unit organization), lies with the Unit Commander. As the person who proposed the very concept of the unit, she has wide influence in the organization of the unit to avoid such problems. This shows a poor understanding of the workloads involved in the various duties, or the capabilities and proper employment of various units.

3) I suppose the responsibility in all of 3 is obvious.

Conclusion: Nanoha was (mostly) not character-assassinated. Nanoha knows that she's not a very good commander or investigator - in fact she says she doesn't have a lot of "special talents" (tokugi) in the pre Striker-S Sound Stage M, to the instant protest of her friends but in retrospect Nanoha knows herself better than the other two know themselves. That she did not succeed brilliantly when pushed out of her limitations and experience, which she is at least partially aware of (I like to think of that as one of the reasons she refused the promotion to 3rd Air Commander), is not exactly character assassination, but arguably character development (the addition of character flaws or limitations is not necessary an assassination).

As I said, because we understand that 1) anime producers are not (famous general here) reincarnate and 2) SoDwise, there may be some obscure factors affecting tactics that we don't know about, we tend to give their characters great slack before we jump to the Incompetent / Character Assassination conclusion. It is definitely an unhappy conclusion no one wants to make.

By your standard, you can't even say they character assassinated Hayate, since they did seem to want to portray her as a good, though budding (which is still wrong when one considers this is her 10th year in the paramilitary) commander - the fact that they kept portraying the inverse from about Ep7 on notwithstanding. Yet we both agree it is character assassination.

That would make sense if their intent remained static but it hasn't. By a certain stage, it becomes clear that their intent is to portray her in a negative manner (when she shows up at all), inconsistent with her earlier portrayal. The malice becomes apparent because not only is the portrayal consistently negative, much of it conflicts with earlier treatment of the character. Episode 7 onwards is more than 3/4 of the episodes.

The manga makes Hayate look even worse. Contrary to her previous work ethic, it establishes her complete dismissal of close combat and physical training. The only time the writers have broken from that pattern is when Hayate is fighting inside the Cradle. Even then, she is only able to fight with Reinforce's help and then they end up becoming two extra bodies to rescue.

Quote:

Spoiler for Enjoy the Length and Stiltedness:

In Nanoha's case, it definitely wasn't flattering, but:Duties as Instructor
1a) The canon shows effort.
1b) The canon shows no development in the level of tactical and moral-psychological training, but substantial improvements in combat skill equivalent to at least one full mage rank, as verified by enemy evaluation, results of mock combat and the real combat, which while sloppy (due to the lack of tactical and moral-psychological training) did end with their victory due to a mixture of luck and combat skill.
1c) The canon has described her experience, which implies that Nanoha probably has little experience (and thus readiness) to deal with her expanded responsibilities of Tactical (in the English, not Midchildran definition) and Moral-Psychological trainer.
1d) The conclusion is that Nanoha, pushed into a role that she was not properly qualified for, executed her task in the only way she knew how. She proved to be reasonably effective in the task she was experienced in, and the overall product, while hardly a success, proved marginally adequate to the task.

Duties as Commander
2a) Her daily responsibility to ensure the readiness of her subunit is arguably untenable due to Factor 1C and her extra duty as Instructor (which seems to take up most of her time). Fate is presumably in a similar situation due to her extra duty as Investigator.
2b) Her combat responsibility of troop control is complicated by both Factor 1C and the unrealistic unit organization which bears no resemblance to Operational reality, resulting in the near impossibility of positive troop control.
2c) Under the circumstances, the Subunit Commanders' (Fate and Nanoha) decision, after the first battle of the unit (Ep5), to create a new ad hoc ground squad organization and delegate control to the initiative of senior, most tactically competent member of their ground units for the duration of combat is probably correct.

Combatant
3a) In Ep5, Nanoha operated in accordance to the Concept of Battle of the Unit Commander commanding from the Command Post.
3b) In Ep7, Nanoha operated under the Direct Control of the Unit Commander commanding from a Command Observation Point.
3c) In Ep9, Nanoha operated in accordance to the Decision (made after conferring with staff) of the Unit Commander commanding from the Command Post.
3d) In Ep12, Nanoha operated under the Direct Control of the Unit Commander from a Command Observation Point.
3e) In Ep16-17, Nanoha operated under the failure of Troop Control due to the effective negligence of the troop control system by the Unit Commander.
3f) In Ep21-26, Nanoha operated under the supervision of the Unit Commander commanding from the Forward Command Point. The poor decision to split up is at the strong insistence of her subunit's deputy commander, in accordance to the Concept of Battle of her Unit Commander (as well as what passes for TSAB Doctrine), and not overriden by the supervising Unit Commander.

Responsibility
1a) The responsibility for selecting Nanoha for the job of Instructor, despite the requirements and reality of Factor 1C, is the responsibility of the Unit Commander, who apparently was given wide powers to select the optimum personnel.
1b) Alternatively, the selection of Nanoha for the job of Instructor may be adequate if the Unit Commander spends some time on Commander's and Tactical Training to complement the instructor's limitations. This was not done, perhaps because the Unit Commander feels it un-necessary or worse, perhaps because she lacks the ability and/or confidence to do so.
1c) The cause is likely due to assuming Tactics (戦術) = Martial/Combat Skills (戦技), an assumption probably prompted by the Midchildran lexicon (see Nanoha's ID card and compare to Japanese), but nevertheless ignorant and indicative of a poor level of professional developmen on the part of the Unit Commander.

2) The responsibility for 2A (overtasking) 2B (unrealistic unit organization), lies with the Unit Commander. As the person who proposed the very concept of the unit, she has wide influence in the organization of the unit to avoid such problems. This shows a poor understanding of the workloads involved in the various duties, or the capabilities and proper employment of various units.

3) I suppose the responsibility in all of 3 is obvious.

Conclusion: Nanoha was (mostly) not character-assassinated. Nanoha knows that she's not a very good commander or investigator - in fact she says she doesn't have a lot of "special talents" (tokugi) in the pre Striker-S Sound Stage M, to the instant protest of her friends but in retrospect Nanoha knows herself better than the other two know themselves. That she did not succeed brilliantly when pushed out of her limitations and experience, which she is at least partially aware of (I like to think of that as one of the reasons she refused the promotion to 3rd Air Commander), is not exactly character assassination, but arguably character development

What does "mostly not character assassinated mean"?

Quote:

(the addition of character flaws or limitations is not necessary an assassination).

Of course. That is why it is important to establish intent and malice.

Hi every body, my name is Evil Rick and I am new here (This is the first foro I belong. How exiting!)
Errr... you will have to escuse my english, I am mexican so it isn't very good. Ja, ja, ja!!

Well, well let's see, my favorite characters from Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Series, that's easy.
Vita!!! She is so cute and so rudness tath I just can't ignore here, is like say"Hey! I have a pretty face but spoildme and I Gonna kick your but!" Oh! yeha, also I like Fate, Nanoha, Vivio and the cyberbots Nš 5 & 10... but I like more Vita!