- Occultist hunting damage through the Warp ability in Occultism and the Decay ability in Necromancy have been slightly decreased at low skill ranks and slightly increased at high skill ranks.

- The damage increase offered by increased skill rank in Occultism and Necromancy for Warp and Decay respectively is now calculated by the number of lessons you have learned in the skill rather than your current rank. This means that spending 15 lessons in Occultism will now increase the damage, whereas previously you had to learn up to a new rank (like Skilled -> Gifted) to see any damage increase.

How much of a difference in damage would 15 lessons make regarding denizens? Assuming it takes three or four hits, I don't imagine 15 lessons reducing that by one hit, otherwise 1700 lessons in would turn someone super-saiyan.

Just did some testing on the new changes and here's one thing I can confirm:

Dragon gut now kills a denizen in the same amount of attacks as a 70 damage whip garroting(ridicuously low stat on a whip), and they have about the same balance time. Takes 13 guts to kill a sidhe knight now, as well 13 [low-damage whip] garrotes.

As someone with zero personal stake in Dragons, and who is unlikely to attain Dragon in the foreseeable future, I'm still surprised they felt that Dragons needed be brought "in line" with other classes on this front. Dragon is an "unlocked achievement" requiring a lot of hard work. A PvE reward for Dragons is justifiable -- unlike getting hunting advantages from choosing a class, when all that's required for that is to walk to Certimene, and then buy enough credits to Trans.

That a big Dragon is now as weak against denizens as a bunch of puny humans and humanoids brandishing scimitars and quarterstaves doesn't make much IC sense to me either.

- Occultist hunting damage through the Warp ability in Occultism and the Decay ability in Necromancy have been slightly decreased at low skill ranks and slightly increased at high skill ranks.

- The damage increase offered by increased skill rank in Occultism and Necromancy for Warp and Decay respectively is now calculated by the number of lessons you have learned in the skill rather than your current rank. This means that spending 15 lessons in Occultism will now increase the damage, whereas previously you had to learn up to a new rank (like Skilled -> Gifted) to see any damage increase.

How much of a difference in damage would 15 lessons make regarding denizens? Assuming it takes three or four hits, I don't imagine 15 lessons reducing that by one hit, otherwise 1700 lessons in would turn someone super-saiyan.

Tiny. The point is that every lesson now contributes to increasing the amount of damage you can deliver, instead of needing to wait, for instance, to spend all 448 lessons after Mythical to again get a damage boost by reaching Trans.

Just did some testing on the new changes and here's one thing I can confirm:

Dragon gut now kills a denizen in the same amount of attacks as a 70 damage whip garroting(ridicuously low stat on a whip), and they have about the same balance time. Takes 13 guts to kill a sidhe knight now, as well 13 [low-damage whip] garrotes.

Just did some testing on the new changes and here's one thing I can confirm:

Dragon gut now kills a denizen in the same amount of attacks as a 70 damage whip garroting(ridicuously low stat on a whip), and they have about the same balance time. Takes 13 guts to kill a sidhe knight now, as well 13 [low-damage whip] garrotes.

I could already kill things much easier as a shaman than a dragon (and I still can even post-swiftcurse nerf). This change is terrible. I can't even begin to fathom what the roleplay reason for dragons suddenly becoming weaker than a rajamalan shaman in terms of their bashing capability might be.

That said - if for some classes weaponry increases hunting ability, ie. speed, strength of hits, etc., how does it reconcile that the one thing shamans have to help with that (the artefact swiftcurse pendant) is now not as useful? In the same way, how can a jester possibly bash now without a Level 3 blackjack. I just can't imagine it.

I'm interested to know whether other factors were considered here - like varying durability; compare occultist or jester with sylvan or runewarden - or whether the only goal was, as stated, simply to equalise bashing DPS.

I don't feel specifically victimized due to the fact that dragon was so recently attained. That's just my general luck in life quite often. I just think that if what Santar posted is about right... and that dragons aren't really any better at killing things than some or most other -lesser- races... well, just bummer is all. I mean you're a flipping dragon for pete's sake. You're a giant clawed and toothed beasty! You should be superior at hunting. I know there are plenty of reasons to continue to gain dragon for other reasons regardless. I just don't bash in dragon for xp, so getting more xp doesn't really lessen the sting of moving more slowly again. Well it was fun while it lasted all of a few weeks.

Man, to think I was considering changing to Monk for better bashing. Glad I didn't go through with that, even though apparently BM got a good bit of the bullet to bite as well. Hopefully a band will make up for it.

So I did a bit of testing as a dragon (with no str gloves) vs. unartied, partly artied, and fully artied Sylvan. Partly was with just L1 con artefacts and diadem, fully had those plus L3 collar and L2 sash.

As partly and fully, Sylvan definitely is going to win out over dragon right now. I can tank most things I could as a dragon (might have to run like, once or twice against the worst things, and that's just with level 1 belt and bracelets plus viridian). Unartied Sylvan is about the same speed as dragon, both damage and speed-wise (seemingly - I don't have exact numbers), just less tanky. But a couple of artefacts and Sylvan is suddenly better than something I spent a lot of time bashing for.

Now, don't get me wrong, dragon still has gare, which is useful for quick escapes and getting around to ulangi/the tundra area. Leaping is also great when you're getting your rear end jumped in Annwyn (icewalls, urgh). But I don't think that outweighs the fact I have more speed and better (seemingly) damage than dragon. I'd rather bash (assuming I was going to) in Sylvan, as of right now.

I still need to do an Annwyn/UW run to compare those results, I just did some things I had a general feel for hunting. But unless I suddenly can't tank Annwyn in lesser (I might not be able to do DKs in lesser either way), then I don't forsee using dragon to hunt with anymore.

That kind of sucks. I'm just about done with Elder, which is lovely, but now it's like... other than very key instances (quick travel, needed abilities to help in raids), I don't see a big lure for dragon anymore, unless you just seriously dig dragon roleplay (I was never a huge fan, though I've gotten a bit better at it).

I hope you guys have some other plans for dragons, because as of right now it's kind of a bummer, mediocre class overall, that has a very couple of perks.

And I love too Be still, my indelible friendThat love soon might end You are unbreakingAnd be known in its aching Though quakingShown in this shaking Though crazyLately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby

The dragon debuff is weird, I think they should be better bashers than all the other classes, and that's speaking as someone who is level 88 (87? Maybe 88? I don't even know) who will likely never be one.

I don't feel specifically victimized due to the fact that dragon was so recently attained. That's just my general luck in life quite often. I just think that if what Santar posted is about right... and that dragons aren't really any better at killing things than some or most other -lesser- races... well, just bummer is all. I mean you're a flipping dragon for pete's sake. You're a giant clawed and toothed beasty! You should be superior at hunting. I know there are plenty of reasons to continue to gain dragon for other reasons regardless. I just don't bash in dragon for xp, so getting more xp doesn't really lessen the sting of moving more slowly again. Well it was fun while it lasted all of a few weeks.

What doesn't make sense to me is that I was under the impression that Dragon was kind of an "end of the bashing grind goal" sort of deal, so making it less effective than many classes seems like the only difference between level 85 and 100 is HP/MP/END/WP, which many don't bother with anyway. If stats are now the only reason to go past the 80 bracket, I'll probably be stopping there.

Speaking as a none dragon as well, I think they should be rebuffed. Its not fair for all those who worked so hard to be one, and then get the strength taken away. Its okay that they were OP, thats the whole drive to become one!