It’s my understanding that the Mormons believe that sometime very soon after the life of Christ and the Apostles, the Christian Church completely apostatized. Then God the Father and Jesus and John the Baptist and the Apostles Peter James and John appeared to Joseph Smith and restored the Church and the Aaronic and Melchizedik priesthoods with Joseph Smith and the other guy I forget his name.

So…the Church needed to be restored almost from scratch in around 1830.

Is it possible…hypothetically speaking, that the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS could apostatize again and once again need restoration?

It’s my understanding that the Mormons believe that sometime very soon after the life of Christ and the Apostles, the Christian Church completely apostatized. Then God the Father and Jesus and John the Baptist and the Apostles Peter James and John appeared to Joseph Smith and restored the Church and the Aaronic and Melchizedik priesthoods with Joseph Smith and the other guy I forget his name.

So…the Church needed to be restored almost from scratch in around 1830.

Is it possible…hypothetically speaking, that the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS could apostatize again and once again need restoration?

It’s my understanding that the Mormons believe that sometime very soon after the life of Christ and the Apostles, the Christian Church completely apostatized. Then God the Father and Jesus and John the Baptist and the Apostles Peter James and John appeared to Joseph Smith and restored the Church and the Aaronic and Melchizedik priesthoods with Joseph Smith and the other guy I forget his name.

So…the Church needed to be restored almost from scratch in around 1830.

Is it possible…hypothetically speaking, that the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS could apostatize again and once again need restoration?

Yes, the Mormon Jesus is actually a two-time loser. They teach that the church in the old world went into total apostacy before 100 AD. And according to the Book of Mormon, the church Jesus established in the Americas went apostate soon after he left.

So the LDS church is actually overdue for total apostacy. Joseph Smith bragged that he had done a greater work than Jesus, because by 1843 the Church was still functioning. He spoke too soon. And guess what?

Because of political pressure and financial ambition, they abandoned plural marriage, which according to Joseph Smith, is the New and Everlasting Covenant without which a man cannot be exalted.
To become more palatable, they have “changed the ordinances”, revising and deleting vast portions of the most sacred of all ordinances - the temple endowment. By contrast, Christians have always gone to their deaths rather than surrender their religious principles.
They, like several of the Mormons on this forum, have denied the doctrines proudly and publicly proclaimed for over 150 years by Mormon prophets and apostles. But the apostle Paul was “not ashamed of the gospel of Christ”. He was beheaded in Rome for his testimony of Jesus.

The Mormons say no. Doctrine and Covenants 13:1 says: “Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of the Messiah I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth, until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.” So to Mormons a complete apostasy is not possible. Of course since they deny that Peter is the Rock, I suppose some group could come along and say this scripture is deniable as well, but the Mormons use D&C 13:1 to bolster their continuing authority.

**
From your experience, do most Mormon missionaries know about that argument to defend the continuing and not apostatizing authority.**

Of course, as a Catholic, we could come right back and say that Christ had already promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church “and lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world” (KJV).

But I guess** they could say** “the end of the world was the period of time beginning with the apostacy and ending with Joseph Smith Restoration.”

Yes, the Mormon Jesus is actually a two-time loser. According to the **Book of Mormon, the church Jesus established in the Americas went apostate soon after he left. **

So the LDS church is actually overdue for total apostacy. **Joseph Smith bragged that he had done a greater work than Jesus, because by 1843 the Church was still functioning. **He spoke too soon. And guess what?

Paul

Dude, where did you get that stuff??

That’s what I’m talking about, thanks!

And thanks for everyone’s contributions thus far. Though there seems to be some disunity amongst approaches to the answer, that’s ok, I’m taking it all in.

And thanks for everyone’s contributions thus far. Though there seems to be some disunity amongst approaches to the answer, that’s ok, I’m taking it all in.

The Book of Mormon

I have more to boast of than any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I (Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, Vol.6, pp. 408-09).

The Mormon Church today would looks very little like Joseph Smith’s Church. The best representation of Joseph Smith’s Church would be the isolated communities that still practice the principle of D&C 132 (polygamy), they still have a priesthood ban on blacks, and live in a commune where the Church owns everything.

I honestly believe that if Brigham Young had saw black priesthood holders, and polygamy being a reason for excommunication he would roll over in his grave.

Like someone else said when Ed Decker came out with his book assailing Mormonism (Ed Decker isn’t reputable, but his book opened up the Temple rituals to the public before the internet). Mormons took a lot of heat for their depiction of Catholic Priests and Christian preachers. So what did they do? They simply changed it. How do you just change something like the Temple ritual which was given to Joseph through divine revelation?

So yeah, Mormonism in Utah appears to be in total apostasy from the original Mormonism.

Come to Arizona, to Colorado City, to see real Joseph Smith type mormons.
Salt Lake City claims that the CO City mormons are not REAL mormons, but they are far closer to JS teachings than the politically correct group in SLC.
Since Warren Jeffs has been arrested (leader of the Co City FLDS), the SLC group are really making every effort here, in the media, to claim that the CO City group are no part of “true mormonism”.

Yes, the Mormon Jesus is actually a two-time loser. They teach that the church in the old world went into total apostacy before 100 AD. And according to the Book of Mormon, the church Jesus established in the Americas went apostate soon after he left.

Thats a very very interesting point, I never really realized this until now. If even the america church went belly up then honestly what was Jesus doing?

I’m not sure where to go in the Book of Mormon to find that the Joseph Smith followers apostatized. Can you maybe lend me a hand with that?

Thanks,

Rob

Not Joseph Smith’s followers, but the ancient Christian church on the American continent after Jesus appeared in the Third Book of Nephi. There was peace for about 200 years, then the church began to apostacize.
Paul

Not Joseph Smith’s followers, but the ancient Christian church on the American continent after Jesus appeared in the Third Book of Nephi. There was peace for about 200 years, then the church began to apostacize.
Paul