121 Responses to “An amusing look at the stupidity of the Bible”

That was actually pretty entertaining. It demonstrates the link between paganism and Christianity in quite an effective way, even if it is done in such a satirical manner.

Thanks for the link!

on 07 Jun 2010 at 12:54 am 2.Corey said …

I completely disagree with this video not only for it’s horrible explanation through mocks and insults, but also for its lack of truthful information. Dinosaurs could have most definitely lived among human beings and there are many explanations and evidence for it.

on 07 Jun 2010 at 10:56 am 3.Jimmy said …

@ Corey. “Dinosaurs could have most definitely lived among human beings”

Perhaps they could have but they didn’t. What evidence do you have for your claim that refutes all other evidence to the contrary?

on 07 Jun 2010 at 2:08 pm 4.Xenon said …

If the guys was FUNNY it might have been more entertaining. Guys that must drop the F-bomb and insult those of faith have run out of ideas.

But as typical of atheist, they have not the first idea of what the Bible teaches. We don’t think humans walked with dinosaurs but we thought Lucy was our missing link and NOW we know that is wrong. We are guessing at the moment.

Picture the primordial soup and then a bolt of lightning striking said soup and Ursula Andress walking up onto the beach. That is real science yes – and funny!

on 07 Jun 2010 at 6:29 pm 5.PulRalSol said …

Xenon, I not aware that Lucy was found to unrelated to homo sapiens. I’m having trouble finding a reputable source that confirms this. Perhaps you can provide yours?

on 07 Jun 2010 at 7:30 pm 6.Severin said …

4 Xenon
“But as typical of atheist, they have not the first idea of what the Bible teaches.”

Why don’t you tell us?
As typical, you frequently repeat your claim that atheists have no clue what the Bible actually says, but you NEVER explain what is it we are missing in our understanding of that book.

What am I missing? I read and read and read it (in my language and English), and could not find anything:
– logical
– moral
– consistent

Help!

on 07 Jun 2010 at 7:53 pm 7.Snowflake said …

Xenon: “Picture the primordial soup and then a bolt of lightning striking said soup and Ursula Andress walking up onto the beach. That is real science yes – and funny!”

That’s what science claims? I had no idea. No wonder people have such a hard time accepting evolution. Now that I know it’s such a crazy theory, I do too. Unless, of course, it was God’s lightning bolt, and instead of Ursula it was Adam. THEN it’s okay. This is real Christian theology yes – and funny!

on 07 Jun 2010 at 8:02 pm 8.Biff said …

X – Don’t forgot the Piltdown man, Nebraska man and Java man.

on 07 Jun 2010 at 8:04 pm 9.Severin said …

4 Xenon
“…Lucy was our missing link and NOW we know that is wrong.”

There is no such a thing like “missing link”, of course. Talking “missing link” today is like talking Newton’s physics.

Unlike Bible, science is making progress! I am happy with this, otherwise we would never discover sun was not orbiting earth, and would never be able to stop smallpox and plague.

“Picture the primordial soup and then a bolt of lightning striking said soup and Ursula Andress walking up onto the beach. That is real science yes – and funny!

I prefere picturing Brigitte Bardot (young and naked) made by a long beared old man from a man’s rib, with spots of mud/dust/dirt on her naked body.

on 07 Jun 2010 at 8:06 pm 10.Severin said …

Sorry: “bearded”, not “beared”

on 07 Jun 2010 at 8:37 pm 11.Corey said …

3. Jimmy

Here is your evidence. check out these two links and let me know what you think.

11 Corey
The problem with missing water for the BF will not disappera if you just ignore it!

The problem with salty water animal fossils found at places where salty water could not exist(except at the time those areas were sea bottoms) will chase them/you too. It will not just vanish if you do net mention it any more.

Your friends form the “Institute of stupidity” did not find answers yet?
I will repeat the questions untill I get some answer.

WHERE did god find so much water? The math involved is very exact, and anyone can check it by very simple operations. If you count Mount Everest (which existed at the time of BF!), even more water was necessary!
WHERE came billions of cubic kilometers of water from?

What about the rate of raining? HOW did god make water to rise more than 5.5 km for only 40 days?

Maybe YOU can get some answers without assistance of your (bad) teachers?

on 07 Jun 2010 at 10:14 pm 13.Severin said …

Corey
After you calculate the amount of water necessary for the BF, try to arrange pairs of:

to 3 decks, 101,000 sq feet each. Add them (liberally) other 1,200 to 1,500 pairs of dinos, including Mr. and Mrs. Tiranosaurus Rex, then insert 8,000 pairs of other animals among them.

PLEASE do not forget ants, bees and some 1 million of species of other insect living on solid ground.
Find some room on the ark for about 10,000 species of birds, please!

They would all die in the first few days of BF if they had no place to rest! They were not able to fly for 40 days!
Problems?

on 07 Jun 2010 at 10:42 pm 14.Observer said …

Corey- Why would you look to an engineer for answers about paleontology and stratigraphy? John Morris never studied, aside from an odd course, nor ever did research into geology or paleontology. The blurb in his link as much as says he can’t answer why there are dino footprints in the context of the fictional Noah’s Flood.

This Lubenow joker is cut from the same cloth as Morris. If you happened to tune into PBS (formerly referred to as educational television ) on occasion, there have been a couple programs on the very topic Lubenow tries unsuccessfully to twist into some sort of refutation of human evolution.

I can assure you you will learn more from people who actually understand and research a topic than folks like Morris and Lubenow who’s only aim is to twist honest research into the dishonest and ignorant aims of Creationists.

Why are you so afraid to read something legitimate?

on 08 Jun 2010 at 1:17 am 15.Xenon said …

Biff I hadn’t forgot them, there is just not enough time to go through then all!
Imagine 50 yrs from now how antiquated today’s version of evolution will seem!

Baby dinosaurs are small. Put them on the ark. Not that many species.

10,000 species of birds would never be needed when micro-evolution is clearly present. Only a few would be needed.

Just helping you there Corey. Debunking Sev is sort of a hobby! I have a long history of packing light for very long trips.

on 08 Jun 2010 at 2:20 am 16.Corey said …

Severin, the simple answer to your space problem is level of maturity. Dinosaurs have to grow too. The most likely chance is that Noah had babies onboard the ark. :) and thank you Xenon.

on 08 Jun 2010 at 5:59 am 17.Severin said …

Corey and dearest Xenon,

You are not debunking anyone, but making fools of yourself. I am not sorry for Xenon, he seems to be old enought to take care of himself. I am really sorry for Corey, but what can I do?
Yes, sorry, I forgot you said (YOU, not BIBLE, but let’s try to be a little bit liberal!) Noah took young animals and/or their eggs.

Now I have some very simple additional questions (BESIDE missing water, and sea fossils in mountains, because I am still waiting the Institute for Brainwashing to dig out some answers).

YOU said god „created“ all animals in their today’s shape. Polar bears are alive and happy today. So are armadillos and kangaroos. Lamas are happyly jumping through Cordilleras, lemurs from tree to tree on Madagascar. Pinguins around the south pole, gorillas in Africa, platyipus in Australia, …….
Either there was no BF or Noah somehow managed to collect them all to save them, according to gods order.

HOW did Noah collect them all, young or old? Did he travel to Australia, Antarctic, Arctic, Madagascar, South America…?
Or did he just whistle and all of them heard his whistle and traveled (for decades) to come to his ark? Kangaroos swam from Australia….or what?

on 08 Jun 2010 at 6:27 am 18.Severin said …

Corey
Did god kill ALL people in China, Mongolia, Japan, Africa, North and South America, Australia, Madagascar, Scandinavia, Siberia (etc, etc) in the BF?

If he did, WHY?
Poor people never heard of THAT god!They had their own gods! Christian god never made an effort to discover himself to them! IF they did sins against him, they had no knowledge of it! If god killed them all, he killed them for nothing.

If god DID NOT kill them all, something is (additionally) very wrong with the BF “theory”, as it says:

“20Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
(Imagine! 15 cubits above the Mount Everest! This comment is not from Bible, it is mine)

21And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and EVERY MAN (my bold!):

22All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.”

on 08 Jun 2010 at 7:52 am 19.Severin said …

Corey
God would avoid all inconsistencies and obviously illogical (stupid!) “solutions” with the BF if he just caused all the people he did not like to die from heart attack.
Or to just die because he said so!
If he wanted them to suffer (typically for lunacy he expressed through the whole Bible), he could postpone their death and make them die in pains, by only saying a word, then enjoy performance from heaven.
If he enjoyed to see animals dying too (as typical for a monster who ordered babies to be masacred), he could do the same with animals!

Was it a problem for him?
In THAT case people like me would have more problems today to deny his existance and his divinity.

WHY bothering with the BF?
Your god was either stupid, or did never exist.

on 08 Jun 2010 at 8:04 am 20.Severin said …

Xenon

WHAT is “microevolution”?

on 08 Jun 2010 at 11:15 am 21.Xenon said …

“sea fossils in mountains”

There are sea fossils in mountains all over the world. I have seen them personally at 5000’elevations.

Google could have answered both your questions. Thanks for not feeling sorry for me though.

on 08 Jun 2010 at 1:00 pm 22.Severin said …

21 Xenon
“There are sea fossils in mountains all over the world. I have seen them personally at 5000?elevations.”

I saw them too with my eyes, somthing lower than you, in the middle of Europe, nearest sea more than 1000 km from the spot. The question (for Corey, now for you too)was: how did they get there?
Corey claimed these fossils of SEA animals in the middle of mountains, and very far from any sea, were residues of animals killed in the BF.
What Corey practiclly claims is: sea animals lived there, then the BF came and killed them. Something is wrong in this explanation!
If god sent salty rains, why would sea animals die?

I doubt the BF water was salty after 1,5 billion sq. km of rain felt down by god’s will in 40 days, no matter HOW this impossible event happened (to rise sea level for 5.5 or 8.8 km in 40 days!!!)
IF it somehow was salty (no way, but we are talking god!), what did people and animals on the ark drink?

With only 1 liter per person or animal per day of water they needed to bring with 2,400 tons of water for 150 days, but I doubt 1 liter would be enough for young hipos and elephants! Even for people it would be not enough.
How did they clean animal shit (tens of tons a day)?

Where did god find additional BILLIONS of CUBIC KILOMETERS of water to rise the existing level of seas for additinal 5.6 km (Arararat) or even for 8.8 km (Mt. Everest)?

And, again: WHY the BF, if god was mighty enough to create the earth? Why not heart attack or some less complicated (but painfull, if god enjoyed it) punishment?

on 08 Jun 2010 at 1:01 pm 23.MrQ said …

Sev

Microevolution is the same as “normal evolution”. Looks like progress.

Corey,
As for the mighty ark, that must have been one sad and sickly entourage. All those viral infections, parasitic illnesses like tapeworms, heartworms, liver flukes, etc. Don’t forget the good and bad bacteria that was aboard. And all that in the days before modern medicines.
BTW, if our Earth is 6000 years old, when in our history did the big boat (aka ark) float?

on 08 Jun 2010 at 1:13 pm 24.Severin said …

Did god kill by BF all people in the above listed (and other) countries too?
Why?

on 08 Jun 2010 at 1:24 pm 25.Severin said …

23 MrQ
It seems, if that is the case, that gentlemen are involving some compromises in their theories, just hiding them under made up names, such as “microevolution”.

I understand and symphatize their “transitional troubles”! It is not easy to admit delusions they used to live with!

Welcome, gentlemen! Todey “microevolution”, tomorrow maybe we will salute you as atheists!

on 08 Jun 2010 at 3:46 pm 26.Biff said …

“maybe we will salute you as atheists!”

Can’t speak for everyone, if dementia ever set in I guess I could go off the deep end. I don’t have enough faith.

Sev

If you are going to be a man of science at least understand it. Macroevolution is evolution we can observe in a species. Dogs for instance consist of wolves to yorkies all within the same family. As evolution took place and information was lost in the process, we see the formation of different breeds of dog.

Macroevolution is what has not yet been proven through observation. Microevolution is used to justify that macroevolution is possible.

Oh, and there is not a religious group to my knowledge who denies microevolution. Get educated my boy. You guys do not have a corner on the market with science. You just assume theories are facts.

on 08 Jun 2010 at 5:05 pm 27.Observer said …

Biff, Jesus’ dim-witted pal, you have the temerity to tell Severin to get educated? That is astonishing. It is you who should learn a bit. What you write about dog breeds betrays both your own ignorance and unwillingness to learn even the basics of life science. You are a buffoon.

I think we should create a new classification for those of your ilk, Christianus entoprocta. I guess you can get the first word. The second is a group of animals who defecate out of the same hole they eat. Of course, anyone as full of shit as you must avail themselves to excrete from every orifice available, which makes your offenses against reason and progressive culture more comprehensible, if none the less excusable.

on 08 Jun 2010 at 7:18 pm 28.Severin said …

26 Biff
“You just assume theories are facts.”

Should I stop trusting scientific theories which obviously DO something for human society?

The meaning of words „scientific theory“ is not the same as when we proclaim something as „theory“ in common speech. Inform yourself about meaning of those words, please.

Some scientific theories fall, yes, some of them are getting upgraded, they CHANGE all the time, and I am very happy with that fact. HOW could we (human society) go ahead if we were satisfied with something we did, and stopped further development of science? The process is called LEARNING. We can NOT learn if we do not make some mistakes or (more freqently) understand a part of something, leaving the other part for future.
We first have a “theory” that lightning is god’s anger, then we LEARN something about electricity, and make foundation for a new theory.
Einstein’s achievments and achievments of other physicists were called „theories“ all the time (including today!), but Japs got the „theory“ in Hiroshima (I am not happy with that, it is only for purposes of explanation here).

Most of today’s achievments that WORK and people USE them are based on „theories“ which are not completed yet, and are still called “theories”. However, our GPS sustem works well!

Should I assume the Bible as fact instead?

on 08 Jun 2010 at 7:33 pm 29.Severin said …

Bif
And, of course, terms like “microevolution” and “macroevolution” are recognized only by Corey’s “Institute of Stupidity”, or whatever it calls, and similar quasi-scientific organisations.
Serious scientist do not recognize those “subtle differences” necessary to believers to somehow keep their “theories” fitting reality.

They (Corey’s institutes) DO claim earth is 6000 years old, and DO insist the BF really occured, but are unable to support their “theories” by answering very simple questions: how kangaroos came to Noah’s ark, or where their god found all the wtaer for their BF, or how was it possible to rise the level of water for 8.8 km in only 40 days.
Would you try?

on 08 Jun 2010 at 7:48 pm 30.Biff said …

You see Severin. This is why few speak to you. You lack understanding and you refuse to learn. Maybe it is above you to understand what can be observed and what is strictly theory with no observational results.

But alas, maybe you do have some observational data that supports macroevolution? I even accept the theory but I am wise enough to know the difference between what is proven and what is not. You are just a drone.

“HOW could we (human society) go ahead if we were satisfied with something we did, and stopped further development of science?’

Finally you made a little sense. Start living it.

Corey you have your own institution?

on 08 Jun 2010 at 9:15 pm 31.Severin said …

30 Biff
Thank you!
I will not call you an idiot although you do behave like one.
I am full of understanding for helpless rage caused by your incompetence to answer simple and clear questions and/or to offer some arguments instead of „drones“.
I felt the same in similar situations untill I was 6 or 7, then I understood my anger can not replace arguments, and began to behave normally.
Some people understand it sooner, some later, some never!

Corey told us some institution prepared answers for him. Why wouldn’t I call it „his institution“?

So, HOW did kangaroos come to Noah’s ark?

on 08 Jun 2010 at 9:56 pm 32.Horatio said …

“So, HOW did kangaroos come to Noah’s ark?”

Hopped?

lol, Biff you really pissed of Buster. I mean isn’t he suppose to reasonable and full of great knowledge?

I knew a guy like him in middle school. His best responses were idiot, your momma and a-hole. I think he got drunk and shot his mother.

We have greater expectations for your Buster.

on 08 Jun 2010 at 9:59 pm 33.MrQ said …

“So, HOW did kangaroos come to Noah’s ark?”
Hopped?

Kind of like Jesus – Didn’t he walk on water? Hor, maybe pay less attention to your sister and check out a map or globe. Or is that too much science for you?

on 09 Jun 2010 at 1:03 am 34.Corey (Christianus Entoprocta) said …

First, Let me start by saying, “I hope everyone enjoys my new name that Observer most kindly gave to me and all other believers.” hahaha

Sev,

Being that God is all-powerful, he could have easily provided Noah with all the animals that he needed.

Second, as far as people go, God created the first humans in the Garden of Eden. I’m pretty sure that the entire world didn’t populate that fast, being that there wasn’t enough time for it to happen. From the beginning until that point, there wouldn’t have been enough time to populate several different continents, especially since they didn’t have the technology to get to other continents

Third, everyone has the natural knowledge of God. Given that a person has no knowledge of science and no outer influence, eventually they will come to the conclusion that someone or something of a higher power created our world. Also, hearing of the word of God only reenforces that thought, because every aspect of God supports creation. You may not totally agree with this, but considering you throw all your aspects away and sit down with a professional who actually knows all the answers, you might be able to see the Christian side of creation.

Fourth, God did not only use the BF to destroy all corruption and sin on this earth, he used it to show his almighty power. Not only that, but disease is an effect of sin, the laws of nature are not! Had God killed everyone with a heart attack, he would be sinning. But since God is by nature not sinful, he used a flood to destroy the corruption instead.

Fifth, the BF is most definitely a possibility. Those underwater creatures were put there by the flood. think of it like this…As the water rose, the creatures rose with it, but when the water started to recede, many of those creatures were stuck on the land that protruded from the water.

Mr.Q,

God has the power to end all suffering and sickness. Once again, God is all-powerful, he can defeat sin, which was and still is the cause of all the suffering that takes place today.

As for the ark.

Wow lets begin in genesis chap 5. notice the formula God gives. A direct son will state born after his own image or after his own likeness. If it does not say that were born after his own image they were a new patriarch born in the lineage at the point of the death of the great great grand father. adam did beget seth after his own image. seth did beget enos after his own image it says so at the end of genesis 4. after that add the entire life of the patriarch and you will come to lemech who had a son named noah after his own likeness , add noahs 600 years to the very date he entered the ark and GOD shut the door, the date. may 21 4990 bc or in linear biblical years 6023.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 1:37 am 35.MrQ said …

Corey
“God has the power to end all suffering and sickness. Once again, God is all-powerful, he can defeat sin, which was and still is the cause of all the suffering that takes place today.”

My point was that in order for all the parasites and sickness of the past to survive the flood, they must have been aboard the ark. So all those nasty creatures which god made – such as parasitic worms, bacterial and viral diseases, molds, and fungus – were all aboard the ark. In effect the whole ark was a huge festering, contaminated, and sickly enterprise.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 1:50 am 36.Corey (Christianus Entoprocta) said …

For the last time, hopefully, I will tell you that God is all-powerful. Temporarily altering the animals’ nature would not be outside of God’s limitations because he has none. Yes, once again, I am using circular reasoning, or so many people on here would call it, but I cannot prove this correct, nor can you prove it wrong. It is simply a theistic belief statement implied by the bible that was written by God’s chosen prophets.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 2:12 am 37.MrQ said …

Corey
And, of course, the ark has been found? Not yet? Still looking? Some archeological data would help. But that’s science. Keep the faith, Corey, it does not need to make any sense or be logical.

I am truly amazed at how many of the posters here believe that an ark actually floated as described in the bible. Wow!!! Common sense, people, common sense. Turns out it’s not so common.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 2:35 am 38.Horatio said …

“And, of course, the ark has been found? Not yet? Still looking? Some archeological data would help. But that’s science. Keep the faith, Corey, it does not need to make any sense or be logical.:

It sounds a lot like the answer atheist give for origins? Don’t know yet but we will one day? Keep the faith Q.

The fact an ark that is multiple thousands of years old will be found is remote at best. I watched a special on Discovery this past weekend where many believe it may have been found. I doubt it since it is wood!

Corey (Christianus Entoprocta)

Just refer to Observer as Buster. He love it! He is such a pleasant fella!

on 09 Jun 2010 at 3:24 am 39.MrQ said …

Hor
“It sounds a lot like the answer atheist give for origins?”

That it needs to be logical? and make sense? Follow the evidence, don’t give up Hor. There’s hope if you decide to think logically. Or you could just go back to your bible, it explains everything and you don’t need to think.

Definition of Faith= “Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.” OR
“firm belief in something for which there is no proof : complete trust”

The ark and religion fits right in for the definition of faith. Not much wiggle room when things are absolute; just more pretending and making things up. Keep the faith, Hor, you wild and crazy Libertarian.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 3:45 am 40.Biff said …

Hor

You nailed it. Time and time again atheist have no answer for origins yet they claim with great certainty. There is no God!!!

Mr Atheist how did origins take place? Uh, um we don’t know but we will eventually!

Mr atheist isn’t it possible there is a Creator? No, we do do KNOW that much.

They are faith based as much as anyone else and science turns out to be wrong more times than not when it comes to history. Being wrong is like a badge of honor for them.

Their best argument are observer like rants. Attack the individual and offer no answers.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 6:27 am 41.Severin said …

40 Biff
“Their best argument are observer like rants.Attack the individual and offer no answers.”

This deserves no comment. Everybody can see in only last few comments who gives arguments and who starts to offend on the personal level in lack of arguments and helpless rage, starting from Biff 30!

Seek help guys!
And urgently! You totally lost your compasses! Do not harm yourself in your “righteous anger”.
Just bite your nails, it is more or less harmless.

So, HOW did kangaroos come to Noah’s arc?
God is all-mighty?
Why then doesn’t he provide you with some grey cells?

on 09 Jun 2010 at 7:12 am 42.Severin said …

Corey,
I can only hope, because of your age, that you will some time and somehow get out of that ugly dark hole you (volontaryly?) trapped yourself in.

I am sure you are intelligent and you can see yourself that your answers do not fit anywhere.

Being “all-powerfull” means RESPONSIBILITY!
How can you worship a being who uses its power SO irresponsibly and SO illogically?
Who behaves like an offended infant?

HOW CAN YOU, as decent and intelligent human being, ACCEPT and JUSTIFY someone using his endless power to kill EVERYTHING on the earth just to show his muscles?. Imagine babies in arms of their mothers drowning, and their mothers trying to save them, all in glory of a blood thirsty monster who ONLY wanted to shaw people who he was!
Couldn’t he show his power some more human way? Couldn’t he move Mt. Everest for 100 km left or right.
If he was allmighty, he could, of course, but he rather chosed to kill people and animals.
Something SMELLS there!

There is NO example in history of religions that GOD HIMSELF exterminated his entire congregation!
Maya’s PRIESTS sacrificed humans in name of their gods, NOT their gods directly, and christianity is the only example in which god himself kills the whole population (+animals!) to only show his power!

Look at me how big, clever and mighty I am!

If such an irresponsible monster ever existed, people should use all THEIR power to kill him.
I am AGAINST ANY KILLING, but such a creature would deserve it!

Lucky we it exists only in lunatic biblical stories!

on 09 Jun 2010 at 7:36 am 43.Severin said …

Corey
I guess you would never justify Nero who burnt Rome to just enjoy the spectacle, BECAUSE HE HAD POWER to do it?
Many people, including innocent babies died in pains to enable a powerfull monster to “show his muscles”.
THAT is an example of using power IRRESPONSIBLY.

Serial killers irresponsibly use their power to “show the muscles” to innocent victims dying in pain.
Look victim/people how nice, clever and POWERFULL I am!

Imagine WHAT would a serial killer do if he had REAL power!
Hitler, for example!

EXACTLY the same your god did!

WHAT is it that makes him different of other serial killers?

on 09 Jun 2010 at 8:10 am 44.Severin said …

Corey
Of course, your possible justifying of terrible crimes which anyone, including god, ever did, makes you a “moral accomplice”.

Skinheads propaguing Hitlers ideology are not directly responsible for Hitler’s crimes, but by JUSTIFYING them, they put themselves on Hitler’s level.
They are LIKE Hitler: potential serial killers.

Do not take burden of god’s crimes on yourself!
For the sake of your innocence, your intelligence, your age, do not take part in terible crimes by justifying them.

I do not say god did them really, because I do not believe there is god.
But how many books and TV serials dealing with made- up events were triggers for crimes?

Bible is a trigger for crimes. It gives you perfect examples about how to irresponsibly use your power.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 8:30 am 45.Severin said …

Corey
“Third, everyone has the natural knowledge of God.”
Please do not think that if you or your obscure Institute say something it makes it automatically right.
You/they just say something and it is done!

I have no „natural knowledge of god“. My daughter does not have it. I know really MANY people which were „infected“ by religions from their early childhood, but started to doubt the very moment they started to THINK.

I grew in a religious family and was very interested in religion untill I was 9 or 10.
I was lucky NOBODY FORCED ME to stay with religion, and my parents and grandparents allowed me to use my own mind to make my own conclusions.

On my own example I can say that some „natural knowledge of god“ is far from being the truth!

CURIOSITY , QUESTIONING and ability to COMPARE are tools naturally built in human mind to enable people to LEARN.
Not all the people have those tools equally developed, but in general, human race DID develop thanks to the a.m. tools. VERY slow and VERY painfull, but it DID.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 8:57 am 46.Severin said …

Corey
For the first time I will use the “debate tools” typical for people like Horatio, because I am not sure you had oportunity to see what such people really have in mind.

HE was the one who posed the glorious question:
“Why is incest immoral”, and insisted to get the answer for pretty long debate.
A so-called christian did not understand the incest was immoral!

I can find it for you if you want.

It is just for you to see who are the people you are dealing with!

I obviously do not agree with you, but I respect your personality. I do not recognize your arguments, but DO respect your efforts to try to find them and to expose them.
Of course, I would never offend you, unless you first offend me, but even in that case I would keep some dignity, unlike people who call other people “drones” and “nail” them with their stupid unargumented comments.

Of course, I would NEVER pose such a question (why is oncest immoral), as I have “built in” mechanisms to protect my species of inbreeding. You may call it “morals”, and I would agree.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 9:33 am 47.Severin said …

36 Corey
“….nor can you prove it wrong.“

Maybe proving it cruel, stupid, irresponsible, illogical would help?

on 09 Jun 2010 at 11:54 am 48.Horatio said …

Yes Biff, they know there is no God because it make no sense. We have creation but no creator makes more sense to them. It is astounding they could believe such bunk.

I like where Q stated above follow the evidence. Ironically the late Antony Flew used the same words when he converted from atheism to theism. Oh well.

Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Or you will also be like him.
Answer a fool as his folly deserves,
That he not be wise in his own eyes.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 1:10 pm 49.MrQ said …

Hor
“I like where Q stated above follow the evidence. Ironically the late Antony Flew used the same words when he converted from atheism to theism. Oh well.”

Yes, it’s true. But sadly:
Flew never claimed to be Christian; he is a self-identified deist who does not believe in an afterlife.

Oh well. No ark in his world view. Try again Hor. Follow the evidence. Or, in the case of the ark, make stuff up due to the lack of evidence. Keep the faith, my friend.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 2:45 pm 50.Horatio said …

Ooops,

Q missed this part.

“Flew used the same words when he converted from atheism to theism.”

We need to start with big picture with you. But isn’t that always your way?.. ignore what doesn’t fit your preconceptions. Enjoying the irony?

A flood of world-size proportions took place. That is all we know. Most ancient cultures attest to the fact with the story. Weather a guy by the name of Noah built a boat is not relevant to the fact you refuse to follow the evidence as Antony did.

I had a dog with no ability to smell that could follow the trail better than you my quackish friend.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 2:58 pm 51.MrQ said …

Hor,

Floods occur on our big blue marble at some place or another every year. So what’s your point? Floods happen?

So now you say Noah didn’t build an ark? Or that it’s irrelevant? Shhhh, don’t tell Corey.

Nice jump, Hor. There were floods in the past, I accept that. Follow that evidence; it must lead to “Jesus is Lord” – Talk about making your own trail! You’re pathetic, my faithful friend.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 5:17 pm 52.Horatio said …

“Floods happen?”

yes, they do happen.

“So now you say Noah didn’t build an ark?”

Well, I don’t know. I wasn’t there. There could have been a ship builder named Noah who built a boat.

Hey, did lightning strike soup and produce life? They both seem pretty unlikely right Q?

“Follow that evidence; it must lead to “Jesus is Lord””

Quaker, there you go again changing the subject. I don’t have time to explain the difference, I think you are just willfully ignorant. Follow the evidence to theism. Isn’t it time to give up the silly game.

“You’re pathetic, my faithful friend.”

Sigh! You ran out of arguments again?

on 09 Jun 2010 at 5:56 pm 53.MrQ said …

Hor
“Follow the evidence to theism.”

If there was any evidence, I surely would. But since there is nothing there, why would I? Might as well put my faith in little pink unicorns? Bearded altruistic skydaddies? Faeries? Allah? Jesus, there’s so much to choose from. Which way should I go? Help me out, Oh mighty Hor. You are one of enduring unshakable faith. Where do I turn? God = Unexplainable energy ?

Another fallacy of bifurcation. It just goes on and on. At least you have recognized the unexplained energy. Now if you can overcome your uniformitarianism, naturalism presumptions and irrelevance you may see the light. A logic course might be in order as well.

Good luck to you Mr Q.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 6:51 pm 55.Observer said …

Hor- How can anyone think there is evidence for a world covering flood? Has anyone who claims to think this is the case ever looked at actual rocks where marine fossils are found? If you find an empty Coke can, or McDonalds cup, do you assume you are standing on the site of a Coke bottler, or McDonald’s restaurant?

Where did all the calcium carbonate come from in the flood? ( Creationists, this is the stuff that makes up much of the material where the marine fossils are found. ) It virtually insoluble in water. Even more confounding, where did the dolomite come from?

Where are the human accounts of what would have had to be worldwide tree-flattening, hell grass shearing, cataclysms to generate the world’s mountain ranges? Where did the water go that covered the earth above cloud layers?

This flood thing is just too stupid for words.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 6:52 pm 56.Observer said …

Corey (Christianus Entoprocta) Dude- If the shoe fits, wear it.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 6:57 pm 57.MrQ said …

Hor,
“At least you have recognized the unexplained energy”

I asked:
God = Unexplainable energy ?

Did ya notice the Q mark at the end of energy ??? And I need a logic course !!!

I am all about Q’s my faithful friend. The search continues unabated. Just not buying into the ark story- it’s just that, a story. All Xtians whom I know don’t literally buy the story either.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 7:22 pm 58.Corey (Christianus Entoprocta) said …

Sev,

God wanted to have a personal relationship with his creation! He had to allow them to have the choice of loving him or not! He didn’t want to make us into some complex machine that bowed down and worshipped him, he want true love, not forced love. God could stop all the evil today, but if he did, all the people could do is choose God because God is the definition of good. If he did that, he would be making us do the exact thing he didn’t want for us!

The bible my not explain all the actions of God, so u can’t say that God didn’t create more than just Adam and Eve. That is the main reason why we have different ethnicities today, because God created them! If you do a little backward reasoning, you will see that there is nothing that denies the fact that God could create more people and did!

Once again, true love only comes through choice! You can’t force to people to be together who don’t wanna be and call it “true love.” That is what I think is illogical.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 7:50 pm 59.veritas said …

Choice = true love??? If god plans out our entire life before we are even born, there is no choice.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 8:27 pm 60.Corey (Christianus Entoprocta) said …

God sees what our choices will be in the future, he doesn’t plan out anything. We still make the choices that lead to our demise or our eternal life in heaven, but he can just see the future and he already knows what will happen.

on 09 Jun 2010 at 9:17 pm 61.Severin said …

58 Corey
I leave you to your contradictories, I see there is no more sense to tell you anything.

God of the “true love” who kills his entire congregation to just show them who’s the boss does not fit to my understanding of love.
I have my eyes and my brain, I see and understand what is written in the Bible.

A book of such an importance as the Bible is supposed to be, MUST be CLEAR.
Its relevance MUST NOT be questionable.

Yet, I read something, then YOU explain to me what god had in mind when said or did something!
WHO ARE YOU to explain god’s words and god’s deeds?
WHY should anyone trust you more than the Bible?

One totally confused sentence of yours says: „Had God killed everyone with a heart attack, he would be sinning. But since God is by nature not sinful, he used a flood to destroy the corruption instead.“

Are you aware what are you saying?
Killing by heart attack is „sin“, and drawning of thosands of innocent babies (and innocent animals) is – WHAT?
The right word is: masive (lunatic, sick, twisted, morbid, dirty, perverted….) CRIME.

If your god ever existed and was so powerfull, he had many ways to show his power without doing sin or crime.
HE chose to be a monstrous serial killer of (mostly) innocent people (babies did not do any sins!) instead to move mountains to show his power. IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE!
No need for anyone’s explanations! No need for anyone to justify him! If any justification were necessary they would be written in the Bible.

If YOU justify his perverted deeds, YOU will live with it, not I.
Because, even is SUCH a god showed himself to me and convinced me in his existance, I would spit in his face, no matter what would happen to me later.

I can not worship baby killers!

on 09 Jun 2010 at 10:20 pm 62.Curmudgeon said …

But yet your worship nature.

strange

on 10 Jun 2010 at 12:14 am 63.MrQ said …

Corey
“u can’t say that God didn’t create more than just Adam and Eve. That is the main reason why we have different ethnicities today, because God created them”

But didn’t the big flood wipe out all the different ethnicities? It was up to Noah and his crew to re-populate the entire world and generate new and different ethnicities. From the day that the ark came ashore, the different groups of people in the world today have arisen from the gene pool of Noah and crew – the pygmys, eskimoos, zulus, aborigines, orientals, etc, etc.
All this has occurred in, what, about 3000 years? And you have the mtDNA evidence for proof of this? Or what is your science, Corey?

on 10 Jun 2010 at 1:08 am 64.veritas said …

Idon’t think that “love me or go to hell” is a valid “choice”

on 10 Jun 2010 at 1:12 am 65.Corey (Christianus Entoprocta) said …

MrQ,

Once again, the bible doesn’t say that God didn’t create after the flood. God is fully capable of do that, whether it says he did or not.

NO, i haven’t lived for 3000 years, but I believe in my God and his good nature enough to have faith that he did such amazing things and what to such extraordinary lengths to have an all-loving relationship with his creation; sinners who don’t deserve what He has.

Sev,

I just don’t even know what to say to you. You can be so completely psychotic sometimes. I guess God just left you here on earth to be an example for what not to be. When I give you our side of the information you don’t stop to think about it do you? the only thing that pops into your head are refutations for something that you really have to have more faith in than us theists! I feel bad for you my friend! you keep ignoring all the evidence that I have given you in plenty of my arguments and refuse to let them stick.

on 10 Jun 2010 at 1:18 am 66.Anonymous said …

You guys are pretty entertaining

on 10 Jun 2010 at 1:18 am 67.Anonymous said …

You’re almost like estranged lovers or diffent sides of the same coin

on 10 Jun 2010 at 2:04 am 68.MrQ said …

Corey,
You’re completely, hopelessly lost. Ouch, the science burns. God did it all. Just use your bible and fill in the blanks when the bible fails to mention something.

Anon:
“You’re almost like estranged lovers or diffent sides of the same coin”

Ouch, that hurts me! You aren’t talking about me are you? It’s really important to me to know that you are not !!!! I just want people to like me. ;-)

on 10 Jun 2010 at 2:45 am 69.Curmudgeon said …

“You’re completely, hopelessly lost. Ouch, the science burns.”

So lets simplify this little debate. Science is not a side of a debate it is a tool. MrQ, share with these bloggers what facts of science you can offer that proves Corey is incorrect. You claim the science burns, however you have not inflicted any of the rays to produce a burn.

I find that the facts remain consistent, it is only the INTERPRETATION that changes.

on 10 Jun 2010 at 3:59 am 70.God lives on ur anus said …

God does not exist! He exists to you just as much as the boogie man exists to kids. The bible is just the middle ages version of entertainment since they didn’t have the internet or TV……or modern education. You have no real proof he exists. Should kids tell their parents that they can’t prove the boogie man isn’t in their closet or under their bed? They truly believe he is hiding there. It is called a mind trick, people. Wake up to reality and get out of la la land.

on 10 Jun 2010 at 4:17 am 71.Anonymous said …

Earlier in this post there was a discussion on sea fossils in mountains. There is an easy explanation for this. Many mountains come from continents coliding a long time ago. Our world’s continents have always been shifting over millions of years. When the continental plates run into each other, one of the plates gets shifted upwards. So the mountain that exists today used to be at sea level at some point in time. Is this too mind boggling for those of you that think the earth is only 3000 years old?

on 10 Jun 2010 at 11:58 am 72.Severin said …

62 Curmudgeon
Sorry Curmudgeon, just HOW did you conclude I worship anythin or anyone?

I do not.

on 10 Jun 2010 at 12:14 pm 73.Severin said …

69 Curmudgeon
There was a joke about the constitution of ex-USSR some 30 yeras ago. It was said that the constitution of USSR has only 2 articles:
#1: Communist party is always right
#2: In case communist party is not right, apply #1

The same with Corey, (you?), and some other people debating here: you may say what you want, they will repeat and repaet all the time the same.

Just look the new Corey’s “invention”: no more and no less than NEW GENESIS after the big flood!
Bible is saying nothing about it, HE does! Of course, believers just CAN NOT BE WRONG ever.

I wish you all the best!

on 10 Jun 2010 at 12:20 pm 74.Severin said …

71 Anonymous

Welcome aboard!
Try to explain this to Corey, Horatio, Biff, Xenon…

I did, but none of them excepts it.

Do not be surprised if one or more of them calls you a “drone” because of your “blasphemy”!

on 10 Jun 2010 at 12:35 pm 75.MrQ said …

Curmudgeon:
“MrQ, share with these bloggers what facts of science you can offer that proves Corey is incorrect.”

How about you and Corey doing some honest research and not making up a bunch of BS as you go along. I could say that a little pink unicorn dropped a load and “poof”, it created the universe; It says so in a book I read.

Corey has chosen the bible as his reference book, I know many Xtians who have done likewise. However, the Xtians in my life treat the bible stories as parables and not as literally true histories. But, as has been mentioned on this blog before, “your mileage may vary”

on 10 Jun 2010 at 1:52 pm 76.veritas said …

I would still like someone to answer my question of how is “love me or go to hell” a choice?

on 10 Jun 2010 at 4:23 pm 77.Curmudgeon said …

“MrQ, share with these bloggers what facts of science you can offer that proves Corey is incorrect.”

I see that none of you could meet the burden of proof. Don’t feel like failures, it cannot be done.

Science deals with facts, observations, tests, data and the such. These are interpreted under presuppositions that will in fact bias the conclusions.
The past cannot be observed therefore observation is not possible. Theories, hypothesis are all well and good but observation will always be lacking. This is why we have a discipline known as history. A microbiologist view of what took place a millions years into the past is about as relevant as a historians.

on 10 Jun 2010 at 5:08 pm 78.Severin said …

65 Corey
“I feel bad for you my friend!”
Please don’t! I feel perfectly well.
“you keep ignoring all the evidence that I have given you in plenty of my arguments and refuse to let them stick.”
Sorry, Corey, you did not give me/us any evidences.
I am fair enough not to ignore your “explanations” and “justifications” that has nothing to do with “evidences”, but I am trying to respond them the best way I can, hoping that you could learn to think.

When I say there was not enough water for the BF, THAT is an evidence, based on facts anyone can prove easyly, without any effort, immediately.
This evidence ALONE, without any other, makes the BF legend impossible. The part of Bible describing the BF is WRONG. That story was made up by people who knew nothing about simple facts of geophysics.

When I say level of water could not rise as quickly as the Bible describes, it is also an EVIDENCE, based on geophysics (physics, mathematics, practical measurments) everyone can check any moment, and any meteorologist will confirm it. This evidence ALONE proves the Bible wrong in the part of the BF.

When I asked how Noah cllected lemurs, polar bears, kangaroos… the only possible answer to that question was: “no way!” That, of course makes biblical claims aout the BF incorrect (lies, or bullshits, not to be too polite).
That is also a VERY big and serious evidence that ALONE destroys biblical BF myth.

When MrQ says that, acording to Bible and according to you Noah’s family (same as A&E!) COULD NOT be the only ancestors of multiple very different races and types of humans, that IS a serious evidence, which destroys the myth ALONE, without other evidences.
These WERE evidences! You got them several, EACH of them ALONE, without other ones, brakes the myth to dust.

What you gave us were EXPLANATIONS of your own.
To each logical evidence I or MrQ gave, you found (YOU FOUND!) your own explanations to MAKE REALITY FIT THE MYTH. All of your explanations are illogical, and do not fit anywhere but your imagination.
Moreover, none of your explanations/interpretations has support in the Bible either! Bible DID NOT mention creation of new people after the BF, for example!

What Bible had to say was said! Neither Corey nor I are authorized to make corrections or to give explanations/interpretations. In fact, NO ONE is authorized!
What you claim, is an EXTREME CHANGING OF THE BIBLE, so extreme that it could BE called “reformation”! Are you Mr. Luther (or maybe god himself) to DARE to reconstruct the bible your way?

Your most frequently used “explanation” that god was “all powerfull” is…you know what! Such claims are NOT evidences. They lead ONLY to childish stories about whose father is stronger!
Yes, it is physically impossible that my father flys, it is also illogical, it fits nowhere, but my father can do it – is THAT what you call evidence?!

And, of course, if Bible has to be all the time explained, corrected, excused, re-interpreted, changed, defended….then WHAT IS THE BIBLE?

REALLY?! Please do not xpose such claims, people will make fun of you!
In what realm do you live?

on 10 Jun 2010 at 5:50 pm 80.Severin said …

Corey
Could you agree that anyone who brutally kills innocent child is a sick criminal?
Anyone who kills millions of innocent children is a sick serial killer (Hitler, …)?
Is it possible to justify their crimes?
For example, would Hitler’s crimes be somehow “justified” if someone said he was abused when he was a child?
Or, MUCH closer to your justificaton of god’s crimes: Hitler himself, and his regime, justtified pogroms of Jews (among other “justifications”) by blaming them to “soil” the superior race and to “undermine” German economy.
Was Hitler right to brutally kill millins of innocent people (almost ½ of them children!) under such “justifications”?

YOU said that god caused the BF and brutally killed millions of innocent children
a) To destroy corruption (in which children could not take part)
b) To show the people his power
Your explanation/justification of his crimes was never questionable, I understood what you said. No need to repeat WHY god did it. It is clear to anyone, and THAT is what makes him a lunatic serial killer!

Beacause NOOTHING CAN JUSTIFY SUCH CRIMES!

What I can not understand is how can YOU accept such explanations! How can you even SAY something so ugly as: “god killed millions of innocent babies to show his muscles to people. To show them who was the boss!”
Not using these words exactly, you in fact DID say that! What else?
Now, WHAT IS THAT what makes difference between Hitlr and god?
I can help you: Hitler was lunatic, and had big, but limited power.
Aaccording to you god’s power was UNLIMITED.
His lunacy was unlimited too.

on 10 Jun 2010 at 6:47 pm 81.Xenon said …

Sev,

Could you does us and servers a favor? Could you just link to your previous posts on all the other threads rather than typing the same old tired remarks?

Thanks

Curmugeon,

Excellent point. Historical sciences escape Severin. He is witnessing origins daily in his own mind!

on 10 Jun 2010 at 6:51 pm 82.MrQ said …

Cur:
“I see that none of you could meet the burden of proof. Don’t feel like failures, it cannot be done.”

I need to meet that burden of proof? How about you prove to me that a little pink unicorn didn’t drop a load and create the universe? Can’t be done, can it? Don’t worry, you’re not a failure either. You’re special, just like me.

Why don’t you tell the same to others who repeat and repeat and repeat their claims always the same ones?

Curmudgeon, in his comment #77 claimed that “The past cannot be observed ….”

And you tell ME that historical sciences “escape Severin”!?

Please, read more carefully!
I hope it was not malicious from your side to do such a mistake (fake?)!?

on 10 Jun 2010 at 8:12 pm 84.Severin said …

Corey,
The last one from me:

Kangaroos were not mentioned in the Bible, because god did not write it, neither did he dictate it, but it was written by VERY primitive people who never heard of kangaroos.
They had no idea there was some “Terra Australis” on their antipodes.
Of course, they did not know anything about anipodes either, because they thought earth was a plate.

on 10 Jun 2010 at 8:19 pm 85.Severin said …

81 Xenon
“Could you DOES us and servers a favor?” (my bold)

This is NOT a malicious question: what is YOUR native language?
Just curious!

on 10 Jun 2010 at 8:55 pm 86.Curmudgeon said …

X

I like the handle. These little debates on what happened 4 billion years ago or even 150,000 yrs ago always amuse me. I always see the statements “Science says” when SCIENCE does not say a thing. Men take some discoveries, add some assumptions based on their OWN presuppositions and then attempt to tell us what happened. We don’t know. It is all faith based. When one group attempt to claim science supports their particular view, it is my job to bust their chops.

Sorry guys, you need to be informed.

on 10 Jun 2010 at 11:09 pm 87.Anonymous said …

Cur,
A dog takes a shit outside. A few days later someone comes across it.

on 10 Jun 2010 at 11:17 pm 88.God lives on ur anus said …

Cur,
A dog takes a shit outside in the neighbors yard. A few days later the neighbor comes across it. They see it. It looks like a piece of shit. They smell it. It smells like a piece of shit. It is dried up, so they know it didn’t happen recently. They use their knowledge that a dog lives next door. They go and ask their neighbor if the dog got off the leash recently. They say yes. Conclusion is that a few days ago the neighbors dog took a shit in their yard. But if it happened in the past, how does the neighbor know what really happened? They used facts they gathered and pieced it together. Others with these same facts can piece the same conclusion together. This is exactly what scientists do to piece together what happened a long time ago, but with higher level knowledge. Get the idea?

on 10 Jun 2010 at 11:18 pm 89.God lives on ur anus said …

Sorry, 87 was also me, but I hit enter by accident when I realized my name wasn’t listed.

How about trying to determine what happened 2000 years ago? Or 200 years ago? No witnesses to say what actually happened. Could be that some Jesus guy never existed. Could be the stories in the bible are just the re-hashed fables of previous cave dwellers.

But what we do know is that some methods are better than others. Ask Corey, he makes things up all the time based on the unlimited powers he gives to his god. I can’t prove him wrong.

Corey or anyone could say that god created the Earth and everything we see this morning, and this god implanted false memories to make it seem that we were born. We can’t prove them wrong.

So we have to decide what we need to prove that the world is billions of years old. Some use the bible to say the Earth and universe is only 6000 years old. Others use science and find that by looking into space (Hubble space telescope) or studying the Earth (Geology, Anthropology, Archaeology, etc) that our Earth and universe is slightly older than the bible says.

Cur:
“It is all faith based. When one group attempt to claim science supports their particular view, it is my job to bust their chops.”

On a scale of faith – where is science? Versus Corey’s worldview? Hmmmm….Keep busting those chops.

on 11 Jun 2010 at 12:54 am 91.Curmudgeon said …

“They go and ask their neighbor if the dog got off the leash recently. They say yes.”

This is the best you have got?

Well, when we run across someone who was there at the Big Bang to verify this is indeed what happened, we can talk neighbor. Until then your example is worth what the dog left on the lawn.

That was priceless! Deal with your faith, accept and realize we all utilize it. Maybe a support group?

Chop Chop!

on 11 Jun 2010 at 3:42 am 92.A real-ist said …

“when we run across someone who was there at the Big Bang to verify this is indeed what happened, we can talk”

Have you run across God yet? Why don’t you ask him? Oh, wait, none of us have actually seen or talked to him because he isn’t real.

“Deal with your faith, accept and realize we all utilize it. Maybe a support group?”

Is Jesus leading this support group? He can turn his blood into wine and we can all get drunk. Then we can go to another support group called AA.

on 11 Jun 2010 at 11:16 am 93.Curmudgeon said …

Argument By selective observation realist? Once you understand (all) the reality will smack you between the eyes.

Perhaps you are simply making an argument that is non sequitur?

on 11 Jun 2010 at 11:44 am 94.A real-ist said …

“Once you understand (all) the reality will smack you between the eyes.”

Smack me between the eyes? LOL I do understand reality, and it doesn’t involve God. If God actually existed, we wouldn’t be questioning his existence, now would we? You are here because you believe, but are starting to question his existence. I am here because I used to believe and now I don’t and I just want to show others their stupidity and laugh at their nonsense. Maybe once YOU understand reality, it will bitch slap you in the face.

on 11 Jun 2010 at 4:54 pm 95.Curmudgeon said …

(lol), Real buddy. Maybe you should just start at #77 and work your way down. See now you are engaging in the fallacy of digression or red herring if you like. I have not once attempted to support any religious creed. You are a one tick pony. Blah blah blah doesn’t cut it here. Your personal experiences are your own but you are still a guy of faith.

Your threats are juvenile and shows a lack of any real intelligence. (sigh!) The wanna-be bully behind the keyboard!

on 11 Jun 2010 at 5:55 pm 96.Severin said …

91 Curmudgeon
„Well, when we run across someone who was there at the Big Bang to verify this is indeed what happened,…“

You have just spit on the Bible! No one to meet today who was there to confirmt it!
You have just spit on your god too! No o ne to confirm there is one!

on 11 Jun 2010 at 6:03 pm 97.Severin said …

93 Curmudgeon
„Once you understand (all) the reality will smack you between the eyes.“

I am so sorry we can not keep Cur for eternity, to tech future generations!
FINALLY SOMEONE who understands (all) reality!

Could you kindly explain to me HOW did human race come from being almost exterminated by smallpox, plague… to dying from heart attack because of being too fat?

HOW did it happen that people first made coaches with horses, then railroads, then plains, then rockets, and today are constructing experimental space ship on solar wind?

Then, HOW did human society come from extremely primitive chemical experiments (Lavoisier…) to synthetic cell? O.K., to “simple” nylon? Nano carbon tubes?
Also, HOW did they come from …well, I would need a book much bigger than Bible to only list achievments human society did in only last few centuries.
Especially in last few decades!

I mean, YOU understand (all) the reality! Do not be selfish, share your knowledge with us!

I mean ALL thet happen AFTER year 0, I just can not understand HOW?

If god made earth and man, WHY did he let MAN to do all that?
Eden would be much more confortable with air-conditioned apartmans, no moscitos!
And: what was the life without Coke?

on 11 Jun 2010 at 9:05 pm 100.MrQ said …

Starting at #77, Cur;
“Science deals with facts, observations, tests, data and the such. These are interpreted under presuppositions that will in fact bias the conclusions. The past cannot be observed therefore observation is not possible.”

If you are somehow able to comprehend the first sentence of what you wrote, you will fully understand that science is:
1) Factual
2) OBSERVABLE
3) May be TESTED and Re-TESTED
4) Has actual DATA involved
5) “and the such” would likely include: Is peer reviewed, continuously scrutinized, updated if and when necessary, and is too tough to comprehend by the likes of yourself, Corey, Merlin, and numerous other posters on this blog.

To have a pre-supposition requires faith in something which:
1) Lacks facts
2) Has never been observed
3) Has never been tested or is untestable
4) Has no data

Unfortunately, Cur, you’re wrong again -the past can be observed. Look skyward on a clear night – that star light you’re looking at didn’t originate yesterday. Just look it up. Dare to explore the world around you and be amazed at what you find. Chop, chop -time’s running out for you.

I doubt this has any affect on you. Logic and reason work on you like water on a duck’s back.

on 11 Jun 2010 at 10:46 pm 101.God please read said …

God, if you are real, please do not allow me to post this next post. If it gets posted, then you are a fake……

Actually the light is happening NOW as it makes its path to earth. You are not viewing light as it originated billions of years ago, you are viewing light in the present, lol, genius!

So when you view a 400 yr old tree do you, think you are viewing the past?

But, another shot for you, then you CAN tell us what happened 4.5 billion years ago? Tell us and then provide some observations for us as you test the past. May we retest to verify your observations?

Can you provide some observations of life as it formed in the primordial ooze as well? That could be fascinating!

Just curious, are you guys capable of discussing issues without resorting to God, Jesus and the Bible? You seem like parrots!

on 12 Jun 2010 at 12:23 am 105.MrQ said …

Cur, you numbskull:
“Actually the light is happening NOW as it makes its path to earth. You are not viewing light as it originated billions of years ago, you are viewing light in the present, lol, genius!”

Wrong, wrong wrong. You really are beyond stupid. Do you realize that light travels at 300,000 km/sec? Meaning that the light you are observing from a DISTANT star is the light from that star as it was at some time in the past. In the case of our own SUN, we are seeing light that is about 8 minutes old. So you see, numbskull, we are able to see into the past by looking into the skies. You and your buddy Xenon should challenge yourselves and look into simple physics.

Chop, chop get off your ass and start LEARNING – that’s an order, you numbskull.

on 12 Jun 2010 at 2:11 am 106.Curmudgeon said …

“So you see, numbskull, we are able to see into the past by looking into the skies.”

Sigh, let us try your way. Numb-nut, you are observing the light in the PRESENT, not the past. Do you believe your are HG Wells? The tree originated 400 years ago is still observed in the PRESENT. A ship traveling at light speed and landing on earth is still observed in the PRESENT. And now, could you enter the present?

Nice job with another fallacy of the red herring. However, we are concerned with origins. Oh, when you look at a fossil you also are observing it in the PRESENT, not the past.

104 Curmudgon
“So when you view a 400 yr old tree do you, think you are viewing the past?”

Of course! View in section of the tree and analysing of layers of it tell us much about, for example, climate that tree was passed through, but not only about it.
Layers of ice Geenlnad, Arctic, Antarctic) tell us what was the comosition of atmosphere, when some vulcanos were active, and WHICH ONES, because chemical comparison of residues with actual composition of specific vulcano tell us exact information about that.

on 12 Jun 2010 at 6:57 am 109.Severin said …

104 Curmudgeon
“Actually the light is happening NOW as it makes its path to earth”

Yes, you are right: the light is happening NOW, for us, for our eyes, but the INFORMATION the light brings are as old, as many light years the source of that light is far from us!

So we see NOW what was going on on Alpha Centaury some 4 years ago, and we see NOW what was going on on Andromeda some 2 million years ago.

Maybe there is no more Alpha Centaury, but we will know it about 2014.

on 12 Jun 2010 at 7:09 am 110.Severin said …

Curmudgeon
We are NOW directly looking the PAST of stars! DIRECT OBSERVATION of the past!

Tree, ice, fossils, layers of rocks…are examples of indirect observation of past. You may call it another name, but through investigating them, we actually see what happened in the past.
Who cares we were not there to see it directly, if we are able to reconstruct events very precisely.

Who was in the past to see big flood, Jesus, A&E….

Unfortunately, unlike for the BB,and climate changes, and vulcano eruptions, and dionsaurs, and….for which we have perfect “holes” to see their past, no “holes” to see the a.m. events (BF, Jesus, Eden…)!
It is called EVIDENCES.

on 12 Jun 2010 at 3:51 pm 111.Burebista said …

Actually you do not! If a star exploded 4 billion years ago that is the past. You might review the results of past events by reviewing results (light) vs the actual event are not the same.

If you comes upon a wrecked vehicle, you see the results of the wreck (past) not the actual wreck which occurred in the past.

Cur is correct.

on 12 Jun 2010 at 6:56 pm 112.Severin said …

Burebista
What is actually your point?

If you see a star nicely sparkling today, and you know it is 4 light years far from you, then tomorrow you see it exploding, you positively and without any doubt know:
a) The star existed and sparkled 4 years and 1 day ago
b) The star exploded 4 years ago.
Whatever happens to the star next, we will se it 4 yeras later than it actually happens, and we will know it because:
a) We know how far the star is
b) We know how fast the light is running

If anything happens with our sun, we would know it some 500 seconds (about 8.3 minutes) later than actually happened, and we WOULD KNOW it, because we exactly know how far the sun is and how fast the light travels.

So, you DO see the event itself, just later than it actually occured. How much later? Depends on how far from us the event occured!

What is wrong with this conclusion?
I thought it was crystal clear!?
And why is it important at all?

on 12 Jun 2010 at 7:09 pm 113.Severin said …

Burebista
“If you comes upon a wrecked vehicle, you see the results of the wreck (past) not the actual wreck which occurred in the past.”
Yes, and what is wrong with that?
Experts are able to reconstruct the event with precision by measuring some parameters on the spot.

BUT, please do not forget that scientists DID directly observe many changes on stars, including explosions of them!
So, if they saw explosions (or other changes) on some stars, they can reconstruct also what happened with a star debris of which they discovered, without being direct witnesses of the event.
What is unusual or wrong here?
Scientist have more sofisticated tools and much more knowledge than police officers reconstructing car accident!

on 12 Jun 2010 at 10:47 pm 114.state of ..? said …

“Experts are able to reconstruct the event with precision by measuring some parameters on the spot.”

Like said, some (not all) parameters are measured. The word “precision” is too accurate for a reconstruction of an event. Please consider revising.

“Scientist have more sofisticated tools and much more knowledge than police officers reconstructing car accident!”

Many times, Police officers have an advantage with a reconstructed accident. One key word which is witnesses.

on 15 Jun 2010 at 5:48 am 115.A real-ist said …

Light and sound travels, so when it reaches you, you see or hear what happened at the time of it’s origin. Timewise you are seeing or hearing what happened in the past.

Other examples, like trees, are a different type of history being observed since they aren’t traveling from an origin. They do show the changes over time, though. Observation is made based on those changes to come up with a result of what did happen at one time. Same thing with the car accident example, the beginning of the accident to the end of the accident.

And what is this stupid chop chop shit? Are you cutting down trees or cutting up veggies?

on 17 Jun 2010 at 2:31 pm 116.Martin said …

OK, anyone who argues that religion is more accurate than science is just plain misinformed and will NEVER see it any other way, period.

Gods are man-made, ALL GODS ARE MAN-MADE! History, not science proves this for those who want to argue history or observation. Proof: The Romans, Greeks, Aztecs, and Egyptians all were convinced that they were worshiping the ONE TRUE GOD/GODS, and yet today we know those gods were false. And yet, they built enormous structures (pyramids, the accropolis, etc) and today those structures are little more than tourist attractions. They mummified their dead which now show up in our museums, they sacrificed thousands of humans in the name of their gods and today we know with CERTAINTY that was wrong.

And today, we have Christianity and Islam, and others who are JUST as convinced that their god/gods are real. Doesn’t that smack of irrationality? Christians and Muslims build enormous structures, they kill thousands in the name of their god, they expect the dead to rise again; how much more PROOF does one need to see that history is simply repeating itself?

And yet again, Christians and Muslims refuse to even consider the FACTS.

on 17 Jun 2010 at 2:33 pm 117.Burebista said …

“And yet again, Christians and Muslims refuse to even consider the FACTS.”

Again another fallacy! But, go ahead provide the FACTS against the Christian God.

on 17 Jun 2010 at 2:48 pm 118.Martin said …

“Hor

You nailed it. Time and time again atheist have no answer for origins yet they claim with great certainty. There is no God!!!

Mr Atheist how did origins take place? Uh, um we don’t know but we will eventually!

Mr atheist isn’t it possible there is a Creator? No, we do do KNOW that much.

They are faith based as much as anyone else and science turns out to be wrong more times than not when it comes to history. Being wrong is like a badge of honor for them.

Their best argument are observer like rants. Attack the individual and offer no answers.”

I don’t normaly cut and paste, but this was just too good not to. I could PROVE to you that god could not exist simply by using LOGIC, but the argument is very complex and most wouldn’t understand it anyway, so I’ll just mention it here. Let’s imagine that there are two sets, one set contains all that came after the big bang and one that contains all that was before the big bang, or we could even call it creation. Now BE, before, and AE after are sets, and we know that a set can not contain only ONE element. Therefore, in the set BE, who are what are in that set? God, and what else? To say god is the only thing in the set isn’t a valid argument because then it BEGS THE QUESTION, and loses it’s logic. So, in order to keep the logic in place, one would have to say that there is something or someone with god in set BE. Also the argument that religion makes about there has to be a cause for an effect to take place, which then begs the question what was gods cause? You can’t have it both ways.

on 17 Jun 2010 at 2:51 pm 119.Martin said …

By the way, if you want to read the entire argument for BE and AE, read the book by Dan Barker, “Godless” he explains it so much better than I do. Oh, and his logic comes from a logician who is a believer.

on 17 Jun 2010 at 9:57 pm 120.Daniel said …

Hilarious truly, I love the pictures and the whole dialogue, but let look at it more closely.

First of all, we should all question about dinosaurs, why didn’t the Bible mention them? The quickest and the best answer is of course, the term dinosaur didn’t even exist back then. If the term dinosaur didn’t exist then how could an ancient Hebrew lived thousands of years before the first discovery of fossils. But you should ask yourself that first, the Bible told us that God created LAND creatures and SEA creatures. I don’t know how clearer it could be.

Secondly, Creationism is not Christianity, again, Creationism is NOT Christianity. Since most Christians believe in evolution except a few minors, this guy against is showing his great ignorance of theology and religion.

Let’s pass all the jokes about Jesus and dinos and get the the real points. If God decided to destroy the dinos, I fail to see why can’t God did it in the span of millions of years and who is the speaker to say that God can’t? Goodness this man is not just ignorant about religion but also science. He fail to see that everything that happened in the past itself is a contribution to the evolutionary chain. Plus if you’re a scientist, the last thing you would want to do is to compare something to human. Walk out of the human thing for Pete’s sake, comparing human to God is like comparing an ant to an elephant. Both mentally and biologically they’re completely different. Then how long for God to caused evolution is God’s problem, and should not be compared to what the human thinks.

Note that Jesus can’t blame God for being crucified on the cross because Jesus clearly chose to do it. If the speaker ever read the Bible with a rational mind, he would understand it.

Did Jesus really tell his disciples to drink his blood and eat His flesh as though as vampires and cannibals? An another conspiracy, since Jesus already dead and ascended up to Heaven, I fail to see how could a person drink blood and eat His flesh. Rather we should all read the whole passage that Jesus also told them to “do this in remembrance of me”, clearly Jesus told them to eat the bread and drink the wine in memory of His sacrifice, and to remember always that by His sacrifice, by his blood that their sins are purged.

So to conclude my message, I’ll quote from Sam Harris with a little revision:

“”This is an American discussion, attesting to American ignorance, spoke for Americans who believe that ignorance is stronger than death. Listening it should provoke feelings of collective guilt in any sensitive secularist. We should be ashamed that this was said in our own time.”

I suggest we should change the title, to something like: An amusing look at the stupidity of an Atheist”

on 18 Jun 2010 at 3:02 am 121.A real-ist said …

“I suggest we should change the title, to something like: An amusing look at the stupidity of an Atheist”

This is coming from someone who talks to imaginary friends. And calling someone stupid because they realize that imaginary friends are not real. Who is the stupid one?

Gotta love how when people try to defend the existence of God by trying to make the real world fit to have a God. They make up things such as God works in mysterious ways. Bullshit. Ways are mysterious because life is about randomness, not a God directing it.

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