Turtleburp & i were at the pub tonight with a friend that is coming to the burn for the first time (tootled)

Turtleburp said, that last years conditions were easy & not too dusty. Have a comparison to 2001, when he said that there were whiteouts ALL the time (and looser on all other accounts too)

I returned the comment that there were a lot of dust storms last year in 2012 - in fact if i remember correctly the Tuesday was pretty dusty, as was the friday - when there were many a dust storm (the day/night that funnily enough he was in the van with a hangover all day) and that i don't think the conditions were "easy" and almost perfect conditions. However, in fairness to his weak argument - i have nothing to compare it too or reference it.

So please all that are out there - settle our pub bet (no wagers but pride) that last year in 2012 the conditions were not easy & fine but dusty - ok not the dustiest but pretty dusty all the same?

In 2012, a lot depended on which side of the city you were camped on. There were pretty good whiteouts, but folks on the other side of the city might not experience them. So yes and no. I didn't think it was that bad.

2000 was fucking dust-stormy as hell! In '01 I brought two first-timers who had to be talked out of turning around and going home upon arrival Sunday night.
I missed 2012 but by all accounts from long time burner friends it was the mildest weather year ever.

GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

2011 was the perfect weather year.
2012, as M said, one side of city was dusty and the other was not so much. We had a couple of dust events with the most intense (to me and where I was) on Friday. If you were on the dusty side during that event it felt a lot like the end of the world. But the rest of the week was really fabulous for me.

When the only tool you got is a hammer, every problem looks like a hippie.

Mmmmmm I love the smell of Burning Man - Token

Getting overly dramatic about the ticket sale process is so 2012. - Maladroit

got to chime in with AntiM. That is true every year. There can be whiteouts on one side of the city and just some wind on the other. except in extreme cases the wind is not uniform across the playa, nor is the dust available to be blown around. example entrance road has about 2" dust at early entry, but Tuesday after the burn it is over a foot deep alongside the road. downwind form that with any breeze is a whiteout

There is a documentary, I think it's named This is Black Rock City or something similar. Marian is riding around in a golf cart during a little wind. It gets your attention. Any of you guys know the name for sure?

When the only tool you got is a hammer, every problem looks like a hippie.

Mmmmmm I love the smell of Burning Man - Token

Getting overly dramatic about the ticket sale process is so 2012. - Maladroit

Wait... which was the dusty side last year? Cause I barely made it to the 10 o'clock side and ours seemed pretty dusty.

Not horrible, but it did put me on schedule to cook in the early morning hours rather than the early evening.

Also, spent the Friday storm on the open playa with no shelter. That was glorious. Like enjoying a good rainstorm when you're already soaked to the bone and there's just nothing you can do about it so you just let it drench you.

2001 was my first year..we didn't know any better than a week long dust storm..
i fell in love with the playa.. learning through getting our asses kicked has not been a bad thing.. we beefed up our equipment.. in the next years we were ready to stand up to some big storms..Also heeding the printed warning has been very helpful

Actually you guys are right it was 2011 (that I also missed) that all my friends said was so ridiculously mild.
Our worry was that some first-timer friends would think we all exaggerate the weather and wouldn't be ready for "normal" playa conditions.
In 2007 I was at 4:15 & outer ring and there were literally whiteout conditions on the side of the street toward town and clear conditions on the side toward open playa.

GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

2011 was quite possibly the mildest weather the event has ever seen. 2012 was extremely rough by comparison, but still didn't really seem to be a bad year overall. The playa was extremely loose and dunes were all over the place, but it really wasn't that bad as dust storms went. 2004 and 2007 were much worse, IMO. I'd side with Turtleburp as far as the wager is concerned.

I missed 2004 and 2007, so the two 8-hour storms of 2008 are my most vivid experience. Anything less than that is great.

2011 was ridiculously clement. 2012 made no impression on me, dust-wise, but I was on the 9 o'clock side. From this thread alone, I think it's safe to say that the opposite side of the city caught the brunt of it.

*** 2018 Survival Guide ***
"I must've lost it when I was twerking at the trash fence." -- BBadger

(2012) I was camped at 3:30 and J. The roads were brutal, had to walk the trike to the Esplanade, or down to 5, or up to 2:30. Washboard. I got caught at Opulent during Carl Cox at 2AM on Friday night without....my goggles! What an idiot. Walking back across the open playa to 3;30 at 3-4AM, I finally understood how the pioneers could die in those dust storms.

Dogs are the leaders of the planet. If you see two life forms, one of them’s making a poop, the other one’s carrying it for him, who would you assume is in charge?
" I am a controlled substance". Savannah.

In 2004 there was a dust storm that started on Tuesday night and never really stopped until Friday. Sustained winds weren't too hellacious, but the cumulative effects were that it never got truly hot during the day and night time was FREEZING! The weather was also severe enough that registered art no-shows and late arrivals were a significant problem. It was my first year so I had nothing to compare against, but the veterans with me mentioned several times that it seemed like there was a lot less art on the playa (there was a big furor over it over on tribe.net at the time). I noticed that most of the big art was either being worked on all week or didn't get finished until the weekend (that year was David Best's biggest temple, and took them until Friday or Saturday during the event to finish.

In 2007 the worst of it was both before and after the event, though there was a terrible storm (and the first condition alpha to happen during the event) on Friday. The storm only lasted a few hours, but at one point rangers with bullhorns actually went up the streets (we were camped at 9:30) to tell people to take cover. There was a storm on Thursday afternoon that I slept through, but was so severe as to bend the steel framework of my mutant vehicle. We got it fixed, but it took 2 days. There was a condition alpha storm at some point before the event too, it lasted more than 6 hours and set my campmates and I back a full day on trying to unload trucks or get anything set up. After the event, we thought we were safe as we struck camp on Tuesday, the weather had been clear all morning and through early afternoon and we thought whatever insane weather system we were dealing with had passed. Then in what seemed like minutes things got dusty fast, and soon the winds were so severe they were knocking over full packed bins and we couldn't see our hands in front of our faces (condition alpha). For a minute we thought we'd try and brave through it hoping that we'd get enough visibility to be able to finish taking apart the frame of our dome, but soon realized that a) there was some big shit flying around, and we didn't want to get clobbered, and b) if we tried it, we'd probably lose the nuts/bolts for the dome in the wind. Pandorra and I dropped to our knees and crawled in the direction of our van (fortunately it was where we expected it). I ducked back outside for a minute when the bins started getting blown around, only to be pelted by the stinging small black rocks as I tried to secure what I could. Later there was a little hail, followed by rain. That didn't let up until sometime just before sunup on Wednesday.

2011 was incredible weather - best I have seen on the playa not just because of the lack of dust, but it never got too horribly hot either.

2012 did have some big challenges with the blowing dust at Greeter's. Visibility got so bad we had to hold cars at greeter's on opening night and slowly let a few go at a time to avoid wrecks. Same on two other days as well. My face was so windburned that it peeled layers and layers of skin off. It really does depend on where you are in the city. In stormier years we have seen giant dust devils go in the opposite direction of the usual prevailing wind, hang a left, and take out one side of a street and not the other.

I don't remember which year it was that on the Saturday night pre-entry, I was snowed on at about 3:30am. It only lasted a moment but it was really astonishing.

in 2007 it was some crazy storms and i was out in the shiity area at like 4:45 and J street.. some multi hour long white-out storms

since 2008 ive camped in center camp.. and it's amazing how much protection the city provides.

once everyone arrives and gets setup by tuesday morning.. the dust storms, and high wind, blow right over our camp.. you can often look up and see a layer of dust/high winds blowing like 20-30 feet above the surface.

the bummer is once things start clearing out on saturday the wind starts blowin in camp, and the dust.. all those structures that werent getting TOO battered all event-week suddenly feel the normal winds again.. and the dust.

during the event ive found centercamp to be a calmer place than other places in the city and most years kind of blur together without any sticking out in terms of super dusty or super windy in camp.

That's weird I don't remember '04 or '07 being that bad (probably just because I considered it "normal") but I do remember the cold nights of '04... so damn cold we really wanted to go out but just couldn't take it. That's another weather condition that is hard to convince newer people to prepare for!

GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

Well it's always going be dusty, even 2011 was dusty at times. The question/bet seems misconceived. What's the bar here? Given the doom and gloom, I was expecting/hoping for some sort of alpha condition type storms, but last year's weather and dust situation was disappointing in that regard. The dust storms basically amounted to stopping or slowing down until it passed, but nothing during the day that would've made me want to stay in camp or in shelter. I think I was out on the playa more during the day last year than previous ones.

Hell, it was during the night that the dust made me want to stay back at camp. Usually it's pretty clear after the burns complete. Things just felt downright soupy near the end of the week. It could've also been that extra subdued feeling nearing the end, or just being tired.

"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

2012 there was a Friday night whiteout from Center Camp to 2 from at least 10:30 until sometime well after midnight - dust was so thick we couldn't see the kleig-lights around the Man until almost halfway there. Had to walk our bikes back because the wind was pushing so hard against us. We were coated, but then it cleared up as the night went on. We were at Center Camp & Esplanade (at 6:30) and there was a lot of dust early in the week - enough we couldn't see across the street, then just intermittent until Friday. Location really matters.

I've got video from 2007 posted, that was a lovely year for dust. Lot's of white-outs. Thought the year I remember the most was '06, when our area of Center Camp got hit with a micro-burst that shredded our parachute & almost knocked out the dome at Recycle Camp behind us. Also freezing on (Weds?) that week at night. Thank god I found a blanket & he liked snuggling.

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

I'm told by my gf and those who've been going to the event longer than I have (2004) that we haven't seen real rain on the playa yet. In 98 a storm came in that got so bad people were stranded for days. Axle deep mud. My gf still packs several extra days' worth of food, just in case.