Animation Paper

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Now what?

Today, we only got one day to go with our crowd funding on Indiegogo. We have about 1/5 of the funding needed to make Animation Paper for Mac happen. So it is time for me to admit that we didn’t make it. As you know, all of you who generously pledged money, will automatically get it back.

Of course I am sad that it didn’t work out. Especially because so many of you have been so excited about Animation Paper – and were eagerly looking forward to it. Me too!

We didn’t make it – and I’m not exactly sure why. I guess it must be a combination of things. The fact that I decided to do it as a native Mac app first must be of some factor. There are plenty of animators and creatives out there on Mac, but since the old PAP was on PC, the most excited people have seemed to be Windows users, who already knew and worked with PAP. Maybe they naturally understood the best how well the modern Animation Paper would work?

Also me failing to reach any of the large news sites must weigh in as well. Being part of a network, you easily get a feeling that the word of Animation Paper is “everywhere” – but in fact new people hearing about Animation Paper for the first time kept coming in until this very end. My guess is, only a smaller fraction of our target audience have heard about our crowd funding campaign. Also I was warned beforehand about doing any crowd funding in the summer holiday season.

I could mention plenty of other potential reasons, but never mind. One thing I am convinced is not a problem is the product it self.

So, now what?

I will have to think long and hard about this. At first I will put it all to rest, at least for a while. I still very much believe in our concept and I would hate for it not to be made. But with under 500 actual contributors I, naturally, have to think.

Right now I need a break, but I will come back and continue my work, continuously refining the concept and find alternative ways to get Animation Paper out to all of you.

Should I try with the Windows version on Kickstarter?

Anyway, thanks for all your support. It’s been great. So many good suggestions that helped shape Animation Paper. And thanks so much for all your nice words. I am sorry to have to send out this disappointing message.

Keep and eye on this site for news in the future. You are welcome to sign up at the front page as well, to get any important future messages.

113 Comments on “Now what?”

I understand and support your need for a break, but I truly think you should have another go at this in the near future, opting for a windows and mac simultaneous release would definitely be a smart move, but at the same time, perhaps before setting up the kickstarter try and get those larger news sites onboard, i know a lot have policies against crowd funding campaigns but they do and have made exceptions to the rule? AWN, Cartoon Brew etc and not just the animation sites, art, design and technology (like TheVerge and Engadget) sites too! I truly believe this application, at its price point could help create and introduce a lot of people to the world of traditional and professionally aimed animation, it could be game changing to have such an app available!

Social networks too, artist communities on Behance, tumblr, deviantart, CGSociety etc are definitely where you need this to go viral. I guess setting up presence before the kickstarter starts up again is the general idea.

I’m sorry for this. I have talked to many animators and friends. Here is what i think and what i heard, i’ll be honest and well, i tried to help as you know 🙁 but here is what i think, i share it with the rest so people can say if i am wrong or not:

—–> Crowdfunding means people don’t get it now. Besides,Windows users will get it MAYBE. Windows users are a lot… The problem of not being able to get it now is the cost of the software. The further, the cheaper, or i will not pay. That´s the psycology.

—–> Crowdfunding means discounts. Huge discounts and benefits. Private videoblogs, contents… and a very low price compared to the final product. Not just the same price as the rest of the people.

—–> Nothing for people giving less than all that money for the software, which is a lot. As we discussed, you said it is not. I still think it is. For the masses, it is. For students, for curious people, it is. For people who want to play with it, it is. If you only want professionals, hardly will trust it, no matter what PAP meant before. You see people paying what they can (from 1$ to 5000$) in Humble Bundle, that works, makes lots and lots of money. That’s crowdfunding for me. I have a big discussion on “software” cost, i worked developing software. Very cheap means a lot of participants, no piracy, even curious people will pay. People will love it. That’s it.

—–> Asking for a lot of money for the project (final goal). It is just psycology. People see it impossible to be done. Maybe a smaller goal with more benefits for the participants…

—–> Choosing MAC is ok. But all windows users get frustrated to pay more for the windows version. Nowadays even WEB would be greater 😀 i think… I had the same discussion in my company. We started windows, then at the same time MAC. then we realized people is moving to web and changed there. Multiplatform is still a big problem… I would have choosen Windows, but there is no real reason…

I backed this but I have to be honest – though I really wanted this to happen – I did not expect it to make the goal for a few reasons:

1) Windows as a stretch goal. Your userbase, the people who already care, are on Windows. These are the people most likely to spread the word and back the project initially. I don’t know what competition is like on Mac but probably Mac users are not as easily convinced that they need this new tool if they haven’t used the old version.

2) Animation software is relatively niche, 2D more so. From the start you’re only talking to a small subset of animation professionals and hobbyists as potential backers which makes it difficult to get larger sums (compared to things like games or comics).

3) 175k is waaay too high. This may truly be the absolute minimum you need, but I have personally never seen a project on Indiegogo make this much (though I’m sure exceptions exist), never mind a specialist tool for artists.

– Indiegogo is (at the moment) significantly smaller than Kickstarter and even some of the most promising projects that get a ton of press barely scrape by even on relatively modest sums (eg https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ghost-of-a-tale) and those are projects accessible to a large audience.

As you say, nothing to do with the software itself (love using PAP4 and new version looks and sounds great).

My recommendation would be to start with Windows OR have both Windows and Mac in the base goal, lower the minimum amount if possible and try again on Kickstarter.

Best of luck regrouping and I hope to see Animation Paper re-appear soon!

I did realize that the 175.000 is a lot, compared to other Indiegogo campaigns, however, this is what it costs to do such a software – even with programmers working for greatly reduced salaries. So I couldn’t do a lot about that.

I couldn’t go with Kickstarter as a danish citizen (because of their rules) – but I hear rumors that they will soon open up for the nordic countries. So I might be in luck.

Hi Niels,
I am very sorry that it did not go through, but I agree with others that you should give it another try.

Two things Struck me immediately as less-optimal when I first saw the campaign, and I am sorry for not bringing this to your attention earlier, if it could have helped in anyway.

First, as others mention, it is a very high final campaign goal – even the bigger Kickstarter projects do not have such high financial goals and I do think they have a wider audience.

Secondly, but probably more important, your video presentation gives the impression that this is NOT for beginners or casual users. It is even mentioned in the second sentence that it is designed for industry professionals and veterans.
If you could market it (and if it fits the actual product) towards casual users as well and/or emphazise that this is a great tool for creative students everywhere, I think you could reach many more people – and thus also get more media interested.

Thanks for your comment. Animation Paper IS designed for the pro animators – but so easy to work with that students and more casual users will find it fantastic to work with and learn from. It is for animators of all levels, since the beginners will like to work with software that is easy to learn and isn’t complex, but at the same time know that this is what the pros are using as well. I agree that this could probably have been more clearly said.

I was thinking about ways to do this better. Why not make a cheaper version, more basic, (which is what i would like to use), for 15$ or 20$, and then the PRO version, for studios, for 60$ ?.

I talked to my friends. They all said: i would never pay 60$ for a software, not a game, they prefer to download it for free. Nobody buys original Windows, and it costs 60$…. AN OS!. And still people prefer not to buy it. ?¿
The 30 day or 90 day license … who wants that?. The proof is nobody purchased those. That could give you an idea of what people want.

I bet you that if the windows version & mac version were 20$ licenses for kickstarter funders, then you would have reached your goal. Probably.
5$ for help. 10$ for basic version,25$ not more for full version. You would have get all the money needed. Way less piracy. Happy funders. Sounds funny, but see, Unreal Engine and other engines turned down to 20$ a month and surprise, lots of people started using it.
Then , other money comes, publishers, schools, students… That’s the real value of the software. Not the license.

As a Windows only user, I would indeed like a simultaneous release. Also, the wording of the $20 Windows ticket was a little confusing.

“This is your ticket to get a $20 discount, when Animation Paper will eventually be available for Windows.”

Mac users get 25% off of $79 (about $20).. will Windows users get and the same discount? If so, where does the $20 pledge go? If it ends up being the same price in the end, maybe it’s best to call it a “pre-order”.

As far as how to get the word out.. how about some kind of contest? For example: Old PAP is still available to download. So, why not have a short animation contest in which the contestants have to create an animation with Old PAP? Maybe that could get more people using PAP, and more excited about its next release…

Thanks C Butler. I made a great effort to make everything very clear, but I promise you if I take it up again, and try to crowd fund once more, I will make sure these Mac/Windows issues will not exist – it will be much more clear and precise.

– It was first announced has being worked on because old PAP was well, old by today standards, then it become a “Kickstarter” similar and we are getting bombarded with this crowd funding projects all the time now. We are getting a bit numbed out by them.

– Mac only first? This was my personal let down. I don’t have a MAC or any Apple products and don’t plan to have in a near future (if ever), funding a product that I was interested and seeing it being developed first on a platform I don’t plan to use was my turn around point. The promise that it would be available for Windows made no sense to me, I fund what I can use on a short period of acceptable time, not what maybe could appear “god” knows when…

– The presented benefits of helping out funding the product were naive to say it politely , im sorry I don’t want to be harsh, but I expect a discount by helping funding something, paying in advance for a product that no one for sure can tell me when it will be available is not what I (and probably others) think of benefiting for our monetary support. Sure you could say but when its out you will benefit being able to use it, ok but I can wait and do the same right?

I really hope PAP gets a redone, im not even its main target since I do 3D Animation but I was nicely surprised when its first announcement of getting developed and told about it to friends that do 2D Animation.

This is not a failure as a see it, but more as maybe a lesson on what went wrong, you guys have a nice product and from what its been shown it looked even better, maybe tackle some Online animation Schools and propose a partnership, iAnimate has it with Digicel´s FlipBook, theres a special free version for its students that are tailored for the Courses, but the founder of Digicel is also a partner on iAnimate, so maybe theres no much luck in there. But there are a lot others schools:

– Animation Mentor
– Animschool
– Animsquad
– CGTarian

And of course there are others that might have an interest in getting associated with PAP.

Thanks Marco. I was crowd funding the Mac version. I added the Windows “ticket” since many PC users wrote me and kindly wanted to support the project anyway – even though they couldn’t use a Mac version for anything. There was no guarantees of a Windows version – because I would need even more funding for paying programmers to do that too. Additional funding for the PC version would come from what is now the obvious unrealistic stretch goal, or from another new crowd funding or from income of sales (beyond the crowd funded licenses) from the finished Mac version.

Yes, nice to not see this as a failure, but as a lesson. I sure learned a few things. 🙂 Thanks again.

I’m said to see this did not get funded. I already told you the reasons why I felt I could not support you at this time on your FB page, but to reiterate, I am a windows user.

In fact, here in the US in the game industry, I do not know very many people who use apple products, and no studios that I am aware of use Macs exclusively. Usually its just one or two audio guys. I’m pretty confident in saying that the vast majority of animators in my industry use PC. I know Apple has this reputation as the machine that artists choose… but honestly, in my 14 years of working in the industry, I have not seen it. I think it’s all marketing.

So, I don’t know why you chose to hit the Apple platform first, but unless you wanted to sell it on the App store for $.99 I don’t think that’s going to work out well for you. I think the PC platform would garner your project more support. Hopefully enough. 2D Animation is niche to begin with, nowadays.

I would definitely make it a point in future marketing to show how you can use the software to help with your 3D animation workflow, such as importing an animation as a layer, and doing drawovers.

Sad to hear that Animation Paper didn’t reach it’s funding goal. I think that you’re right about doing it for Mac and not Windows could be considered as one of the reasons for not reaching enough supporters.

I’ve seen other graphic applications that started up with a Windows version, and then came out with a Mac version later with great succes. I definitely don’t have anything against Mac, but I can follow you in the notion of first opening those windows to let the wind in, and then Mac can come by once he’s finished eating that apple, followed ofcourse by Rogue Boy Linux and his bag of tricks. ; )

I could also imagine that the affordable price of Animation Paper would speak to many Windows users – the amateur animator, the parents who would like their kids to sit and play around with 2D animation, I’d go as far as saying that 9 out of 10 of those that I know that have such potential interests, runs on Windows. Windows is also (as far as I’m aware of) the platform for many student classes, an educational area where I could see Animation Paper become very succesful in. I would definitely go for a Windows version on Kickstarter, for me it is a crowdfunding brand that seems more widespread and mainstream – maybe you could reach a larger group via that approach.

I also missed some more rough animated examples and WIP videos using the Animation Paper interface, instead of referring to the old PAP. I know that the package isn’t there yet, so it’s rather difficult to show any work from something that’s still in early development – but I missed that small extra tangible bite.

Finally I must say that your idea with Animation Paper is indeed very appealing, PAP was my first introduction to digital hand drawn animation back in 2005 going from pen and paper to stylus and tablet – I was so thrilled about the whole package, it was so intuitive and easy to use – fitted my way of thinking very nicely. I think it would be an awful shame to not let such a great concept see the light of day – I wish you the best of luck with it all.

As a hobbyist 2D animator, I wanted to see this succeed and wanted to pledge. However in the end I didn’t and to mimic some of the other responses, here’s why I didn’t pledge.

– I have no need for a Mac version and wasn’t guaranteed to get a Windows version no matter how much I pledged. I could be throwing that money away for all I knew. I too was confused about the 20.00 Windows rebate and what that really meant. I really think you missed the user base here with trying a native Mac version first.

– I would expect a discount for pledging and waiting. If I just wait until the software is complete, I could purchase it then for the same price I would be paying now or close to it. I would expect my early pledge to be approximately half the cost of the final product which would make me feel like I supported and got something in return for my loan of money over a substantial time period. Otherwise I would rather wait and buy the final product to get it immediately and keep my money until then.

– A lower goal price would entice me to pledge knowing that it could be a realistic goal. If it would’ve cost 175,000 to pay for everything to get it done, take some of that risk upon yourselves to be recouped with sales of the final product. For example set the goal at 75,000 and recoup the other 75,000 with final sales of the product.

Again, I would like to see this project succeed on the Windows platform. I just didn’t feel like the parameters set out in this campaign were conducive to success in its current form. I hope you try again and succeed! Don’t give up.

Actually the 175.000 is already a lower amount with parts to be recouped later. But I see what you mean. It is a lot – and it would have been a lot more if I had gone for both Mac and Windows at the same time. I would like to investigate more the possibilities of doing it in one go, using QT or some similar development environment, where you support more platforms at the same time (Windows, Mac & linux in one go).

Qt is quite popular nowadays. Autodesk is using it for maya, mudbox and a lot of their other multiplatform products. Its reliable and mature, open source too. only added work for you to be the need to occasionally have to build your software against new versions of the library, or bundle it with qt. I am sorry the indie gogo did not succeed although i had a feeling it would be a tough sell with the established target audience…mac pro animators with big pockets. I agree with the majority of posters here who claimed the rewards and prices were a bit naive too. Kickarter and indiegogo projects thrive on two things- highly reduced exclusive prices targeting impulse buys and very few expensi awards that have some collectors value. There is nothing exclusive about a trial

I’m very disappointed but not at all surprised that the campaign didn’t reach it’s goal. I thought it truly bizarre that you basically said you were going to do a Mac version and possibly, maybe, some time in the future do a PC version but only if you reached the stretch goal? Eh?? I did pledge $20 but, I too, had no idea what that $20 meant to be honest. It was a ticket towards the Windows version but would the windows version cost me the full price? Would I get a discount? Maybe the Windows version cost more than the Mac version? I had no idea as it wasn’t stated. I pledged $20 because I really wanted you to succeed but I bet there were hundreds of Windows users that would be totally alienated by your odd decision to aim it at Mac users only with a vague possibility of a Windows version…..sometime. On the very first day of the campaign I said on Facebook that I only know one person with a Mac. I work with 200 people, all on Windows machines and a lot of those are interested in 2D animation. In fact, an email did go round at work highlighting your campaign but because it was Mac only nobody seemed very interested of course.

I hope you will try again and either do a Mac and Windows combined campaign or Windows first with a Mac version to follow.

I was supporting the crowdfunding for a Windows version. I don’t use Apple. Exeptionella iPad. As a hobbyist I use Photoshop for animation. It is good. Animation Paper would be the Number One tool for pencil test animating for me. So I will still support another crowdfunding campaign if there is one. Especially if It is for Windows.

This is just the opinion of one animator so I’m sure it won’t be of much help to you, but I use Windows and Linux and although I follow the project with a lot of interest, I’m afraid I couldn’t support a Mac version simply because I don’t use it.

I already voiced my concerns with your campaign in a private comment on the campaign page, but I’ll double dip and state them again just to give my opinion publicly, and hopefully give some other points that might help in future endeavours.

First and foremost, and this has already been brought up on this page but it bears repeating to an extent, the pitch was pretty off-putting to me as a windows user. Not intentionally, I’m sure, but that’s still how it came across. Windows users were expected to pledge in hope that the stretch goal was met, and if it was they’d still pay the full amount in the end, while Mac users who backed for 59 usd paid 20 usd less in total. In future possible campaigns, don’t segregate the audience like that. This is probably a point that is probably getting a bit long in the tooth by now, and from replies to other commenters here I think you’ve taken note, so I’ll leave it at that.

Two other crucial points that I’ve noted is the presentation and the product.

The presentation, while servicable, wasn’t great. The campaign video were ok in general, until you stepped towards the camera for no apparent reason. I assume it was to give a sense of import or closeness to the audience. Maybe it was completely subconscious. Whatever the case, it made the rest of the video slightly uncomfortable to watch. It has to do with the sense of personal space, and this varies between people and cultures. So I’m sure that there are people that didn’t notice or care. Still, you set up the personal space of the audience at their monitor and you sitting at a comfortable distance, then you break the space by walking up close to the camera. Normally a person could/would back away when that happens in real life, but when it’s a video like this, they can’t, and thus the message of the video suffers. I’m not saying that it’s what caused the campaign to not go through, or that it had a significant impact (I don’t know, I don’t have the numbers). I’m simply giving my interpretation so that the next presentation video might give a better impression.

Speaking of impressions. There seemed to be a constant mentioning (even now on this page) of how people would get their money back if the campaign failed. That tells me as a potential backer that you think it will fail. If I’m backing a campaign I don’t care that I might get my money back, I care about my money going towards something. Any pledge in a crowdfunding campaign is potentially lost money already, and backers are aware of that without being told so. So that angle of your campaign was entirely self-defeating.

As for the product.“One thing I am convinced is not a problem is the product it self.”
This, in my opinion, is both true and false. Because as far as I can tell, there’s no product. All we saw in the campaign videos was a mockup of the interface. That’s not much to go on, even given the availability of the old PAP software.

I’ve only dabbled with PAP a little bit myself. Mostly because I just can’t get into working with it. The UI is very cryptic at first glance. So for me, only seeing a mockup of the interface instead of an in-progress prototype video or other made me go “… oh”. Yes getting a prototype running might require more work or cost than simply showing a mockup, but it would invoke so much more confidence from your potential backers.

As for how to proceed from here. If it was up to me:

– Get a workable prototype running before your next campaign. Doesn’t have to be pretty, doesn’t have to be feture complete, but it has to show what to expect. A way to cut costs on that is to approach a college or university and see if there are programming students in need of a thesis project that could help you develop the prototype.

– Multiplatform from the start. There’s no ways around it, Mac is no longer the homestead for graphical work that it once was. Now the market is much more varied, but leans heavy towards windows. Focus on mac and windows from the get go, with no price differences between versions. A good example of a cross platform piece of software that I backed (it’s not a kickstarter campaign thing, just a paid-for beta access deal) is Pyxel Edit. It uses Adobe AIR to achieve mac/windows compatibility.

– Consider using Kickstarter. IndieGoGo is nice, and takes (from what I’ve heard) a smaller cut than Kickstarter, but Kickstarter is simply bigger. It reaches so many more people (ironic considering both are just websites) and consequently attracts larger sums. There’s very little difference between IGG and Kickstarter in how it functions, but Kickstarter has always had somewhat more of serious feel to it than IGG (potato salad aside).

Amazon was supposed to open up Kickstarter for us in the north, but I don’t know if that’s the case yet or not, but I do know that smaller swedish game studios have had campaigns on there, so I’m sure you can get Animation Paper on there.

– As has been suggested, more license options would probably be a good idea. If you have a student, a personal, and a professional license option you would have a wider net, so to speak. There are various ways to differentiate between license versions, but I’ve always found that the more agreeable way is to not restrict features, but instead have the various licenses allow for different things. Student license allows for any and all student related works. Personal allows for personal use and limited commercial use, while Professional allows for full commercial use.

– Drop the paid-for trial tier reward and consider other tier rewards. The truth is most, not all, backers pledge in order to get something, that something is often the thing the campaign is for. 30 days full use of a program is what I expect from a trial license, not something I paid money for. Consider other incentives, even if it might be adding to your campaign cost. If the campaign is successful the trial would/should be available for people anyway, making its value as a tier reward negligible at best.

As for the campaign goal. I don’t think 300k usd is unreasonable. I’ve seen kickstarter campaigns with goals higher than that make it and beyond, and I’ve seen campaigns with less than 80k as a goal make it beyond 300k. I’ve even seen an IGG campaign with a goal of 150k go beyond 800k. Of course, all of these were game campaigns, but it shows that money can be made from both Kickstarter and IGG.

There is of course a difference for a piece of software. Spriter, a 2D animation tool for games had a kickstarter campaign with a goal of 25k that ended up making 75k. So there’s examples of successful campaigns for animation software on there as well.

I can see two routes to take.

Either you go for broke and set the goal to 300k from the start, or you set a smaller goal, and hope that it makes it beyond 300k and/or have other private investment to supplement it (bank loan or an angel investor).

Another big thing is to drum up more press for it, but I think you already know that.

Hopefully my points help your next step for this software, because I think there is a place for it.

Hi Lukas. Thanks very much for your lengthy message and for your points. I read it with interest and it is all noted.

I am not entirely in agreement on all your points, but I appreciate your thoughts a lot anyway 🙂 First of all, it was never my expectation that PC owners would pledge money for a Mac version. Of course not. Some did anyway just because they liked the project so much. But I didn’t expect that at all. I admit that the whole Mac/Windows thing wasn’t clear enough. I guess I subconsciously was lured into thinking that there would be a much greater response from the Mac communities and therefor less of a problem.

Also it seems that a misunderstanding has arisen, since in a few of peoples comments it says that the Mac and Windows versions wouldn’t cost the same? Of course they would. $79 when finished. $59 when “buying up front” pledging in the/a crowd funding. If this campaign had gone better, as stated elsewhere, the PC version would of course be the same $59. The $20 “ticket” was just to let people support now, because many wanted a chance to do that, and then deduct the $20 later – if they paid $59 or $79. But never mind. If/when I go again, this will not be an issue. 😉

About me stepping close to the camera: I don’t know. It is of course a cultural or personal thing if you like that or not. I was being true to my self, and thought it worked well and showed the seriousness of the situation. On the other hand I kept my staggering mistake with the “simple and clean” in to show some personality as well. Some didn’t like that. But that is all a matter of personal taste. I actually had a first version of my video pitch, where I only sit. That seemed stiff and impersonal, so I decided to do it all over into what you saw (standing and walking freely).

Yes, it would of course be better and give people more confidence if I could show a working prototype. But that would be 80% (or at least 50%) of the work done, and then I would have no need for a crowd funding. I decided to go with experienced professional programmers to make sure the quality will be right. And they are of course more expensive than students – even though they agreed to work for much less and take %’s of any future sale. We did do some speed tests though. And they proved to me that I was safe in going out and promising the stuff I did.

And after all, as you say, I did have the old PAP as a working prototype. I know it is outdated, that’s the whole reason for Animation Paper, but it still proves some good core points.

Did you see my video tour that I put up in the middle of the campaign period? That helped a lot of people understanding more of the concept.

Only reason I didn’t go with Kickstarter (which of course was my first choice) was because they officially don’t accept other nationalities than American (or Australian/UK/Canadian). I am well aware that there are ways around this and I know a few Danes who did Kickstarter projects, but it requires an american straw person who I would have to ask a lot of – which I didn’t had or wanted to ask for. I am hoping the rumors are true and Kickstarter will open up for Scandinavians running campaigns in the near future.

Anyway thanks again for all your well meaning advice. I really do appreciate it. It is noted. Thanks a lot.

Hi mate sorry to hear you didn’t reach your goal. But to be fair I thought your target was a bit extravagant. I tried to get a game going, had press in the local paper told friends etc put it on kickstart, and was trying to make a goal of only $10,000 , didn’t even make a $100.
I was absolutely traumatised and upset couldn’t work it out.
if I was you I’d still go ahead and make the program, learn coding yourself, if you have to, there’s always a way. You know People want the product in mac and pc version. Best of luck.

Thanks Richard. Despite the fact that I actually coded my own tools when I started as a graphic artist and animator in the 80’ies, I dropped the programming part to focus on my artistic skills. It wouldn’t be effective, or result in a quality app, if I decided to code it my self. 😉

I really hope this backlash crowd funding wont let you down. I really think the world needs a program like the Animation Paper. The whole idea that you present is brilliant. Animation Paper is needed for all kind of animation enthusiasts; pros and amateurs. As a hobbyist and animation fanatic. especially traditional hand drawn or digitally drawn, I can see the future for Animation Paper. It fills a gap. So don’t give up. We need it. We need you.

Very sorry to hear the goal wasn’t reached. The program looks amazing and as a casual/ex-animator myself who loves to play occasionally, I would love to see it made. I have a lot of animation friends who can’t find a favourite 2d animation program because they’re all very heavy and technical and hard to customise or master or integrate with other programs, and often very counter-intuitive, so they stop learning and practicing. This needs to exist.

Try again with the crowdfunding! So what the first try failed, try again! Perhaps if it’s up for long enough it will start to snowball and the funds will come in. Selling an idea is a skill and with mastering any skill there are failures. Try again.

Sorry you didn’t reach your goal Niels.
I found out stupidly late in the game about animation paper. If you can get in touch with your old backers when you have another crack at crowdfunding I’d be more than happy to try and help you out again.

Sorry to see this didnt make it, but wanted to point out that I only just found out about this. I follow some animation sites/blogs and tumblr accounts, but this never came up. I think if you could spread the word more it would get funded. Why is this on Indiegogo instead of Kickstarter? If you lean into the Apple Mac side of it and promote it on Kickstarter as a great new creative tool for Mac people it should take off.

Hi Nick, thanks for letting me know. Yeah, I had a hard time getting the more popular news sites/blogs to write about our project. Once they hear it is about crowd funding they pull back. If only they knew about what it was. 😉 But I agree with you completely – I think it could have been much more visible.

My first choice was Kickstarter, but as a Danish citizen you can only get on Kickstarter with a lot of help from an american straw man. Something I couldn’t make my self ask of my american friends.

Niels-
Very sorry you didn’t reach your goal- I really want to see some software like this and fully believe in the idea for this app. For what its worth here is my feedback: I first heard about the Animation Paper plans through the article on Cartoon Brew. I was very excited and signed up to be notified, etc. However, when the Kickstarter finally launch I ended up not supporting for these reasons: 1) My primary platform I would use this on would be Windows and it was not a guarantee that I would get a Windows copy if I supported. 2) I use a Mac at work (where I work as a professional animator), but for the Mac I would be most interested in Beta access. Unfortunately I would have had to have bought 2 copies to get access to the beta. There is a good likelihood I would have shelled out $50 if it would have given me beta access. 3) I am a a big supporter/follower of Krita (digital painting program that is open source) who were simultaneously doing a Kickstarter (successful!) and intend on implementing animation in a way that seems very promising. Their deliverable on this was about the same time as Animation Paper, beta access is free when available, and it is on the PC. 4) As Toonboom just implemented a bitmap engine into Harmony, I suspect it won’t be long before they do the same with Animate (the software I currently do all 2D animation on). So with all these factors, I had decided my best course of action was to “wait and see” and possibly pick up Animation Paper when it was publicly available.
As I said, I am sorry that the project was not funded and would absolutely hate to see it go away. Ultimately if there had been early access beta available and a Windows version I would have supported in a heartbeat. Please keep me posted on what your next course of action will be- I am very anxious to see this thing come to fruition!

Dude – keep your chin up. The old PAP was amazing and your ideas for the new one just needed a little more polish.

I am part of the group of people who learnt about PAP v1 and started using it after you made it free. I, and others in this group, have been impressed with this simple tool that allows users to animate freely and quickly. Simple features on top of a reliable tool. Rigid UI yes, cumbersome navigation yes again – but after the initial learning curve – you get a sweet small-footprint and straightforward animation tool. I do previz and I appreciate the simplicity tremendously.

Ok, so the members of this group that I belong to are keen on your animation product. There is no doubt about that. We are also excited because we can imagine that with some help from us you can give us something that builds on and improves this great tool. We want it on Windows as well as other platforms. We want it to remain simple. We want it to remain light and occupy a small footprint (small size, easy to install, does not require complex drivers / OS versions / plug-ins).

You asked for funds and wanted to give us the Mac version first. Also no firm Windows release plan. Also donation options were a little off the mark. I think we would have liked more say in the features. Maybe through some sort of voting system corresponding to the amount you donate.

I think you are on the right track. You probably need to think about:
– Clarifying the value you give to donators. Money equals input into the features, or Money equals faster access to the end product etc
– Consider releasing on major platforms simultaneously, or at least have very firm release dates for Windows and Mac.
– Marketing your fund raising campaign more. I heard of it late – and I am a keen old PAP user!

Thanks for your comments and advice. I am keeping my chin up by the way. 😉

You have some good points. And I am aware of it and in agreement. But one thing, I am not so sure about, is letting people contribute money and in return get to decide on features. I have always been strict with the old PAP – I mean what features and functionality could be included and what had to be left “by the entrance”. 😉 I want to continue this way with Animation Paper. Only this way we can make sure it is properly streamlined, light weight and intuitive. I mean, someone need to keep it on track. Keep the goal in mind at all times. Most people understand and appreciate this vision (including you, I can tell), but if only a few people could pay to force something in, we run the risk of ruining the overall experience. I am not saying it wouldn’t necessarily be good and fitting ideas – and as you know, suggestions are more than welcome, and indeed many features in Animation Paper came directly from very good ideas from our community. But we need to have a “moderator” – and that is me. 😉 I hope you see what I mean.

Anyway, you are right, making subjects in a future crowd funding campaign clearer is important. My dream is to do both Windows and Mac at the same time (possibly even Linux too, let’s see). – which of course helps getting rid of any OS confusions/disappointments when crowd funding. And of course is the most ideal situation – to be able to reach everybody in one go. And regarding marketing – yeah, people heard about our project for the first time all through the period. I guess this is natural, but it also tells us, that probably much more people is out there to still discover Animation Paper. We need a wider reach – a greater/better marketing.

Really sorry that the campaign didn’t make it. I was really rooting for you! Like others here, I saw a few weird parts from the get-go, and have my share of critiques that others have already mostly covered. I won’t bore you with everything as I’m no expert in crowd funding myself. I do professionally edit video though, so one thing I will say is that your campaign video could have used a little more attention. I’d love to see this project get up and running. I’d be delighted to help out in anyway that I could(editing, sound, direction, camera pointers, mock ups, color, lighting), if you need help putting together another video. I have many things to say about it, but an important thing for the next video is this: While your danish charm adds a lot to the loveliness of the previous video, I would definitely recommend having a native english speaker at least be involved to make sure your message is clear. You should definitely be the person in front of the camera, but it couldn’t hurt to have someone helping you say what it is you want to say. I know not all of your audience and backers will be native speakers themselves, but a crystal clear message of what Animation Paper is, and will be, is paramount to getting people behind this project without hesitation.

Again, I’m open to discuss it further when you get closer to your next campaign!

Thanks Greg. Yeah, I know my english may not be clear enough all the time. With a native english (american) speaker we can interleave a voice-over a few places. That would be great. And thanks for your editing offer. I’ll keep you in mind and contact you, to talk about it when time comes. Thanks! 🙂

Most of the above comments summarize my thoughts pretty well. If you want to gain enough momentum, targeting only professionals won’t result in enough users. You need to include the common folk too, who wants to play around with this as a hobby thing. And these users are typically Windows users.

Then there’s a cultural thing: 2D animation is sadly considered a kid’s thing in the western world. This again limits the potential user base. In Japan everyone age group reads manga (cartoons) and thus the potential user base here could be much larger. I think the whole anime/manga community (both in Japan and outside it) should have been targeted big time, because this could be the program they’re all waiting for. “Create your own anime” would certainly sell, if you brand it the right way. Just look at how popular Vocaloid got. Everything needs to be in japanese though, as they usually don’t speak english over there.

Someone mentioned creating a web application instead of a native application. I must say I disagree in this. A professional would never want to sit and work an entire day inside the horrid usability hell that a browser can offer, let alone the aspects of stability: Many people consider browser based things as something that can be lost very easily, if you hit reload by accident or close the browser.

I am an ameteur animator and all I do is 2D black and white stuff with PAP 4.0.
Thats what I like doing, I can do stuff quickly and get it on my YouTube channel every couple of weeks. I dont think I will do colour and even if I did, with a new kind of programme that you use in a totally different way, it has a different feel and when I look at a lot of animation done that way, its like the characters were made of cardboard and hinged with joints, I just dont like it. What I would like is PAP 4 just improved a bit. Maybe a way to more quickly erase the part of a layer that is under a shape you want to keep. And not crashing when you try and delete a lot of frames! And saving to more file types. And not making the image fuzzy when its rotated or pasted or resized a lot. Unless I’m doing it wrong, which is possible! But I LOVE USING IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR PAP! best wishes Skizzy

Hi Skizzy – the new Animation Paper, will feel like a big improvement to PAP, but not a huge lot more. It will still be super simple and easy to work with.

A couple of answers to your problems in PAP: To erase a larger area of a drawing, press x on your keyboard, draw around the area (you are making a cutout and erasing it from the drawing) – then press esc to release the cutout.
When resizing: Yes, your drawing will get a bit fuzzy especially if you are scaling a cutout up, but it will not get more fuzzy by applying more transformations in one go. I.e. you can freely scale, shear and rotate again and again until you are completely satisfied with the exact state of your cutout. – As long as you do not stamp it down and pick it up again. Try to do all your manipulation while having it picked up in one go. Then you will not build the little fuzziness by adding to it every time you pick it up again and scale again.
You can stamp the cutout down, and even press esc to get rid of it from your pointer – but then get it back by pressing b and continue the scaling/rotating. That doesn’t add to the fuzziness. Anyway, you will often just use scaling and rotating for the rough animation. When it comes to cleaning it up/inking in the end to finalize your animation – you often want to do the last finish by hand (drawing).

Hello Mr. Niels!
I know I’m a little late in posting. I was following the campaign, but I didn’t realize you posted an update here.

I would like to say, first off, I love PAP! I was researching some animation programs when I came across your program and it was exactly what I was looking for. I’m not a professional animator, it’s just one of my hobbies, but many of the animation programs I was researching were more of the flash/joint type of programs and I was looking for a 2D traditional style of animation program. I’ve worked a little in
PAP and I love it! Thank you for this wonderful tool!

Also, I’m not sure if anyone mentioned this or not, but I feel like your campaign was too short. I understand that 175k was the absolute minimum price you could ask for, but I don’t think one month was enough to raise it. I found your campaign in the the middle of the month, and I feel like a lot more people could have found it or been told about it if there had been more time.

I sadly wasn’t able to contribute to the campaign, but I regret that a lot. If you do another campaign, I will definitely contribute what I can. I happen to use a Windows computer, but this would definitely be worth the wait, as PAP is awesome!

I also wanted to say that I personally think your final price for the program, $79 USD, was very reasonable. After researching some programs which might have 2D traditional animation capability, I found them to be too expensive and not worth the cost, especially considering that I am someone who is not currently majoring in animation and will only use the program in my free time. Your price, on the other hand, is reasonable and one I would be willing to pay for.

I really like your PAP program and I hope you continue to develop this program and gather funds. Even if you do have to take a break from it for a while, my personal interest in animation will never fade, and I am definitely and willing to wait!

Hello,
Nice try and thanks for the hard work. I feel that the whole campaign should be done differently. Some discounts where not interesting at all.
15$ just to test it!
20$ windows ticket
30$ for 90 days !

Most will give in that amount range but what is the point if after a certain time it isn’t worth anything?

There should also be a team feeling to the project. At the moment it looks like you are just working with programmers but we have no sense of a team devoted. A one person band cannot work.

A appreciate all the work you have done but redesigning the campaign would be the first place I would look.

Thanks for saying this Albo. Even though I had my reasons for doing things the way I did, I am learning, and I totally agree with you. If/when I go again, those rewards will not be there. Also I need a real dedicated team around me – helping out with all sorts of issues. Thanks again for your points.

First off, I think it’s a really big shame that the indigo campaign didn’t make it. Like most people have said, there is DEFINITELY a place for Animation Paper in the 2D animation comunity.

I used Adobe Flash for animation in uni and frankly couldn’t believe that it is considered the go-to-program for digital 2D animation. Although it makes for fairly robust animatic creation tool it just doesn’t cater towards people who want frame by frame drawn animation (which for high profile 2D animation is a must. Auto tweening just doesn’t cut it).

I’ve been trying to create an animation workflow that I’m comfortable with for a while now, and it seems to me that what I’ve been missing is exactly this! A clean, tight 2D animation program that focuses on one thing and does it well.

But it seems I’ve arrived at the party 2 months late. Like pretty much everyone else who’s commented here, I really hope you give this project another go; it deserves it.

I suppose it’s pretty easy to say that from the sidelines, but at the very least I vow to intensly promote and support any future attempt at raising funds.

Or, for that matter, anything else that an Aussie 2D animator might be able to offer; feel free to hit me up.

As someone with a Mac preference who was looking forward to an affordable Mac native 2D animation program: That Windows stretch goal was just too far off and the campaign required far too many people paying at least $59 to get anywhere near just the Mac version, let alone the Windows goal. Mac is kind of niche, and more and more artists around me who had stuck with Mac are switching to Windows, and I may join them soon myself. Combine that with how Traditional 2D software is also a very specific, niche interest, and you have a small, picky, and stingy audience to work with.

Maybe tackling iOS or Android versions early would be a good idea? Mac is niche, but iPads seem to be everywhere these days.

A lot of people contribute to crowdfunded projects for discounts and exclusive goodies. I’m not sure what the rewards could be for a project like this, but “$20 off the Windows version if we even get there” just didn’t do it for enough people . Too many preferred to wait to see how things went before pledging even $20 on something they probably wouldn’t even get anything out of. You need more to entice them to donate, and to donate more than that, because that $20 won’t go that far. You also need to give the people who paid $59 for the full program reason to donate a little more. Maybe there could have been a tier between that and $118 (“Double for two versions, when all my animator friends use Windows? Beta sounds like fun but I’ll pass”) to convince them to say “why not?” because they wanted an extra perk.

Man, this is so sad. I just found out the program and i got so excited cus it was finally what i was looking for in an animation program, raster and intuitive animation!! And immediatly after i read it didnt get funded X)

I’m no crowdfunding expert, and I don’t know what you did in yours, but since those things function on a word of mouth basis, what about trying to involve as many animators with huge followings as possible? Seeing what people i personally admire can do with your program, be it a beta, would definetely make a nice impression!

I will definetely be funding the next one, if you guys get around to it 🙂 do you have a mailing list or something to keep us public updated?

Thanks a lot Elisa. Please sign up at the front page of this site. I will not send too many emails out (don’t want to annoy), but you’ll get a notice if/when I decide to run a new crowd funding campaign. Cheers.

First of all, many thanks for giving PAP windows version for free. I was able to install PAP under Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, with help of Playonlinux, without problems so far. I am at lesson 4 now. It’s runs very stable. Really impressed with it.

Is it not possible for you to get free help from ICT students? There must be a lot of students who want to learn programming and this would help them, at the same time they help you. Choose the ones who are going to graduate. They have to pass it, that depends on your grade. =) I bet they will work good.

How about introducing your software package to high schools? Update the last errors and teach many teachers how to use it. That must give you extra income as well.

Personally I think it’s better to sell your software 2 million times 50 euro, then
5000 times of 250 euro. I have been in my family bussiness. And people like cheap and good. The important thing is to get a name first. After that your product will sell itself. If you place this software on Steam…. you got your self a huge advertisement!
Plus sell it from your website for a bit less. Hoping they buy directly from your website instead from Steam.

I know I’m late to the game here, but like the others, I was excited by the prospect of a Mac version of Animation Paper. Sorry the crowd funding fell through.

I know it’s a hard road to go through a campaign like this but I have a few ideas that might make the next one a little easier.

There are several companies out there that specialize in helping artists create a crowd funding campaign. Breadpig is the first one to come to mind.

Also, have you thought about approaching a studio that might want to invest in your software? One stop-mo studio I worked for was the sole provider for a little Mac app called Frame Thief to capture the frames for animators.

Thanks Santi. I know a lot of people like you are waiting and rooting for Animation Paper. Of course this wants me to make it even more. I’m working on it – finding investors, Kickstarter campaign, etc… Nothing too concrete yet though. /Niels

I know you’re on Hiatus with the production of Animation Paper, but I was wondering if I could help you with the support by mentioning and sending a link to wherever people need to go to do the crowd funding on my podcast? I may not much of a following, but I love 2D animation, trying to get a job in it, and felt like helping out with spreading the word.

That’s very nice of you Kevin. Thanks! I suggest you mention animationpaper.com, so people can learn what Animation Paper is and what I want to do. Then later, when/if a second crowd funding is launched you are of course most welcome to help again.

If people sign up at the front page of this site, they will be sure to get a notice when any new crowd funding campaign is coming up.

Yeah I was crestfallen when I heard this didn’t even come close. I tried pimping this as hard as I could (Even if I’m not really notorious XD) I was actually really wondering what the fate was.

As someone who’s trying to make animations and despising Flash, I really wanna see this made.

I wish I knew what to say about the minimum money barrier, I guess making big damn programs is expensive. It’s a stretch, but have you thought about Patreon? You could have Beta test reward tiers or something.

Hi. Thanks for your support and nice words. I did not know about Patreon. But Kickstarter seems to me to be the best choice for Animation Paper. I would hate not to see our software be made – so I’m hoping to be able to do another much more effective crowd funding fairly soon.

Hello, I’ve been following PAP for a while now, I was also ecstatic when I saw that there was an opportunity too get this program back up and running to start animating some characters for a video game Idea I’ve had mustering… Well, that was until I saw the Operating system that it was for, Mac. Sadly, while Mac is still becoming a more larger and more dynamic computer than what it once was, still most users would probably be more windows-based (And linux) like myself than mac-based. I say this because of how easy it is to acquire a windows computer than a mac(due To cost). Still, I keep my hopes up and pray that this software becomes a reality. Old PAP had a bit of a learning curve, but MAN! That software was amazing. By the way, you wouldn’t happen to release the source code of the old pap? Please (:P)

~ I will definitely keep my hopes up with this one!

P.s. Please don’t make a $600 or higher program like other companies, making this affordable for independent users (somewhere within 65 – 300) would benefit you guys greatly!

While it’s sad news and surely frustrating to know about some steps back, I think you should rethink things and try to launch the application in a more up-to-date format. I have been following PAP for some time, but I don’t think it’s a good move to confine it to Mac. Maybe you should take a look at the artists that are using more and more tablets every day. There’s the Cintiq companion, nice android tablets with pens, and of course the Surface. I use windows tablets or tablet pcs for many years, and I grant a good animation app such as PAP is missing. There seems to be a good number of ‘surface artists’ going after nice cel-animation apps that work well with this kind of devices, that are improving a lot with time.

I don’t know facts about the different markets… but it seems that making applications that are simpler, well done and cheaper to sell them on app stores could be a way, instead of ambitiously trying to compete with expensive apps like Toon Boom and the likes.

PLEASE! Don’t give up this project, but you need to move to Kickstarter for a number of reasons. Just regroup and move to the funding platform that works. If you still have your dev team in place, it’s just that easy to succeed.

I never heard anything about this so I am just finding this now and sadly I missed the chance to donate.

Looks like I may be the minority. I used to use PAP years ago until I moved to Mac and have been looking for something to fill the gap since.

From the numbers I have seen Indigogo success rate is no where near Kickstarter so that for me would be step #1 and now that you are able to do that I really hope that helps kick things into high gear

$79 seems really cheap. I could see that for an entry level (limited) version but I can’t see that being enough to maintain the software in the long term since we are talking a pretty niche market.

Sadly for me (Mac user) it does seem from the comments above going Windows may have been the way to go first.

I really hope you don’t give up. The new Mac version looks incredible and I am definitely in the next time around.

One last thing. Not sure if you have heard of Assembly but I definitely think that it may be worth looking into. Perhaps you can find some people to help get things going before the campaign starts.https://assembly.com/

Thanks Tom. Yeah, Animation Paper is too good to give up on. 😉 As you already read elsewhere, I am hoping to soon do a Kickstarter to help fund both the Windows and Mac version in one go. Thanks for the Assembly link. I haven’t heard of it – I’ll give it a look.

As you probably know I am only working on this project in my sparetime. I have to pay my bills. I am planning a new crowdfunding on Kickstarter this fall. I learned a lot from the previous crowdfunding, so plenty of things to do better this time.

Much more thoughts have gone into every aspect, including the software it self. But still not a single line of code has been written on Animation Paper (apart from a few new promising tech- and speed tests). We need the Kickstarter to succeed, so I can hire my programmers and get my production plans executed.

As you can see from the above post, I will soon launch a much more focused website to go in hand with the Kickstarter.

I hope I can have your help as well, to help spread the word and ultimately get Animation Paper funded.

Yes, basically that was a mistake. Just to make sure there’s no confusion: The old crowdfunding was on IndieGogo – the new and much improved one will be on Kickstarter. This will have both Windows and Mac! 😉

I just found this site about a week ago and downloaded the old PAP, I quite like it, aside from the cursor being off XD. I’m planning on using either the old PAP or the new one to make anime movies, I’d like to use the new one, but it sounds like it’s going to be expensive, but either way, i’ll be using one of them. This is the best animation software i can find, its exactly what I’ve been searching for. I can’t wait to see what comes out next!

Thanks. 🙂 You’re up for a surprise! You think $79 is expensive? 😉 $79 is the price tag when it is finished and sold online. … And by supporting my soon to come Kickstarter you will get it for even less: $49!! That’s for a full license – no subscription or any strings attached.

No problem. 🙂 Thanks a lot Barry. The status is that we need funding through a Kickstarter in order to make it happen. I’m hoping to be able to do the Kickstarter soon (it all depends on me alone at this stage unfortunately). Once the project is funded, my programmers can get going. It will then take about 6 months for the first test versions to be ready and after 12 months the final version will be out for everybody.

I think it’s a real shame this isn’t going ahead. But it may well be that your program simply isn’t as widely seen as other programs such as ToonBoom or TVPaint. I’ve been searching for ages to find the right 2D animation program for me (and I run on mac), but Flash’s drawing tools are terrible and the GUI of both ToonBoom and TV Paint make me feel dyslexic when I look at it. However I’ve only found out about this program via word of mouth last week, well after the campaign ended, so I suspect a lot of the reason you didn’t reach your goal was probably due to a lack of awareness.
I really hope in future you retry to produce the software, as from your tour video it looks like something I would fork out <$100 for if it meant I could finally get my hands on some animation software that had an easy to use timeline that had some half decent drawing tools in it, and not just one or the other. Maybe in future reach out to organisations such as Animation Mentor or various Facebook pages, I see plenty of advertisements through there of animation tools and tips, often from sources that are not their own, purely for the benefit of their followers and the art form.

Thanks a lot for your thoughts. I think you are right, much more people need to know about Animation Paper – because they would love it!

Even though I admit this process could be faster, things are progressing. Animation Paper will become a reality! And with the help of our community and fans of our project we will be able to get through to the large sites and get the word out.

Thanks. As far as I understand, citizens of almost all countries in the world are allowed to support through Kickstarter. So it shouldn’t be a problem. But if it somehow still turns out to be impossible for you to go through Kickstarter, then please get back to me and we will find a solution without Kickstarter.
Best, Niels

Mr. Niels K. M., what is with the delay of this awesome software. Me and my friends have been waiting in anticipation for this software. One of my friends has been hyped up for this since you announced it. We hope you finish its development as soon as possible. It would make all our lives easier. Thank you.

Yeah, I know. But thanks a lot for your patience. As I have said elsewhere, the project is progressing, even though I admit it could have been faster. Everyone WILL be able to get it eventually. Thanks for your comment.

If your Kickstarter plan is not successful? Could you find another way to get support for your Animation Paper app and make it a reality? Perhaps, you can start recycling your metal cans for money and have a bank to save your money until you have enough to develop the Animation Paper app. Could you, please?

I don’t want you to cancel your project. I would like you to never give up and keep working on your project. Perhaps you can write a book all about the new Animation Paper app and get everyone in the world to know about your app. Then everyone will love the new app, and will want to support the development of it. Animation studios will need the app to do animated movies. Could you please?

Perhaps you could order two recycle bins and mark one with a standardized label for aluminum cans from RecycleAcrossAmerica.org and mark the other one with the standardized label for plastic and put the aluminum cans and plastic bottles in the bins and once they are full, you could recycle them for money and you could save enough money to get work on the Animation Paper app, could you please?