20190311 - Facets of the Nether Ch 4 - 4280 words - Sub 4

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Chapter 4 this week. As always, let me know what you think. This is the first of a new POV, so let me know how it works. Reactions on anything/everything else is appreciated, from character reactions, to description needed, to grammar and phrasing.

Previously: E coaxed S out of his room after a strange chime went off. The maji are interested in S's new house. R got some information from a source, and M wants to restart the Society. R reveals the location of the Coalition's headquarters, but can't get there, and everyone is called to the Assembly.

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I think this chapter read pretty smooth. It could use some tightening in a few places, especially the first few pages, but once it got going it was an easy ready. There was lots of good tension in the council meeting and I loved the end--though that last line could go. There's plenty of punch to A assassins without R's reaction.

More please!

As I go

- S thinking the being that went inside his mind erased his memories is unreliable narrator, yes?

- Doesn't O already know about I/E thing? Why does it matter if people who already know they are Ar find out they have a mental connection?

- But it only confirms statistical fact to admit that <--- this doesn't make any sense to me. There's statistical significance but not really statistical facts. All stats are open to interpretation

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While I didn't feel like it dragged, I had some trouble staying focused through the tram ride part. S is starting to feel a little repetitive for me in this section. I feel like a lot of what he thinks to himself is not covering any new ground, just rehashing something that I've already read. I also feel like some of the things he's thinking about -- his memory, being worried about being worried, the drains -- would be better positioned earlier, with the rest of the catching-up-from-last-book

The council meeting was more interesting. I also wanted to skim the LC's speeches, but I'm pretty sure that was from my distaste for that kind of political talk (which you captured perfectly), so I guess that's sort of a good thing?

I was also not a fan of the new POV. Not because he's poorly done or uninteresting or problematic in any way (he's not) -- I just plain don't like the guy. So, I mean, well done on making his personality distinct and believable!

- "Who knew what a semi-sentient giant crystal got up to?" "R knew the translation it offered was helpful, but that didn't mean it wasn't creepy as well." So it's not just me who thinks this is creepy.

- "the old man what was in charge of the Nether," This feels off but I don't know why...

- "R jerked up in his seat. That was impossible. The Ar were extinct." I think it would end better with out this part

S is starting to feel a little repetitive for me in this section. I feel like a lot of what he thinks to himself is not covering any new ground, just rehashing something that I've already read.

I can definitely see that. I think I need to spread this stuff around, or just cut it. Funny enough, the parts you said should go earlier were actually cut from the over-thinky first chapter and moved here! So maybe I just need to condense them.

10 hours ago, Atium said:

"R jerked up in his seat. That was impossible. The Ar were extinct." I think it would end better with out this part

Another vote for this. I'll look into it.

On 3/14/2019 at 1:53 PM, industrialistDragon said:

I was also not a fan of the new POV. Not because he's poorly done or uninteresting or problematic in any way (he's not) -- I just plain don't like the guy. So, I mean, well done on making his personality distinct and believable!

10 hours ago, Atium said:

- I liked the new POV

Yay--I think? ;-)

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- (pg.1) - The difficulty I have with the epigraph is that it's not clear that it's referring to the original incursion by the LC. I guess there's no army or drain this time, but that's not been confirmed yet, so until R refers to S's intervention, there's some chance it could be a retrospective description of what is happening now.

- (pg.1) - I'm confused. Where are we? And when are we? Who is this other apprentice that he's starting at and where did they come in?

- (pg.2) - "Ever since the presence in his headhad made itself known in his head" - Flows better if the parts of the object are kept together, I think. Also, again, at first glance, I thought this was happening now. Hence, suggest adding 'had'. And I'm not really clear what his logic is here. Is he saying the entity made him more confident?

- (pg.2) - "You thought you might be able to help MA?” He asked E" - 'he'. Part of the same sentence.

- (pg.3) - Where did the other apprentice go?

- (pg.4) - "their group filed on with representatives of all ten species filed on" - You keep splitting the object of the sentence by put the verb in the middle of it.

- (pg.4) - Wait a minute. They filed on, now S is back on the platform holding the banister. I assumed he filed on with the rest of them. Unclear, I think. And this new apprentice, she's in this group and open the tram? No description despite the fact that S was looking at her.

- (pg.4) - "M a j i C and C" - This is starting to bug me. You never used to do this, putting M plural in front of two m's and capitalising it. We can argue the toss back and forth about the syntax, but my main point is that you haven't done this in any of the other stories that I can recall and I think it's weird, 'cause my brain always tells me it's one person. It's all over the place now. I just don't see why it's necessary. Why not just say C and C, or IF and HD? it just all seems so cluttered with titles every time an m appears int he story. I guess it's only in S's POV, but it just makes me like S POVs less than I did before, and they are (and always have been) my least favourite, because he's the least competent and confident.

- (pg.4) - "a deep pealing sound" - So, is this a different noise to the one before? I presume it is, or he would have said 'That sounded happened again.'

- (pg.4) - Ah, he does. But why not on the first instance, if it was the same noise?

- (pg.5) - "he signed"- He's a bit late to the party. His response comes several seconds after the sound, and the responses of the others.

- (pg.5) - "That's very observant" - And that's very condescending.

- (pg.5) - "damage to the Dome" and "some remnant of the drain" - Eh? But those things happened ages ago, why would this sounds only start now?

- (pg.8) - "not all prejudices common on his homeworld were true" - I know it's his thought, and so entitled to be grammatically 'incorrect', but are prejudices not valid or invalid?

- (pg.8) - "head incline" - This does't sound right, to me. Incline as a noun is a slope, of course. Incline as a verb, to me, associates more readily with someone having the inclination towards some mood or action, rather than literally to tilt something, which is what makes me suggest 'tilt' instead.

- (pg.8) - "more important the beauty" - Typo 'than', obvs.

- (pg.9) - "Mebbe" - Does this mean 'maybe'? I recently had a bad experience with dialect (in The Name of the Wind, the ludicrous patois of the woodsman / pig-farmer(?), which is skipped.) Is this going to get more extreme? I don't mind the yers, and the contractions/abbreviations, but this seems like a new level, just because it's his POV.

- (pg.10) - The sessions begins before the Eff waves for it to start.

- (pg.11) - "our organization has been around" - This is very informal and does not mesh with the rest of the language, imo. Easy enough to say since our org was formed, or something similar.

- (pg.11) - "claim to the m" - Sounds off to me. His claim to the status of m, the title of m, perhaps.

- (pg.13) - "we will respond with those who still fight with us"- Really awkward. I feel like there's a much simpler wording, like 'we and our allies will respond.' for example.

- (pg.13) - Hmm. R's last line reads to me like the start of another paragraph. I thought you had the zinger with the previous paragraph. I think leaving it at "the A." is a more powerful ending to the chapter.

Overall

For me, the weakest chapter so far. I'm always kind of ambivalent about S's POV. As usual he was a spectator, so momentum dropped quite a bit. Then R's POV. I can see why you wanted this one to give the LC an open hearing, as it were. I don't think the voice brings all that much, but the I can see how the perspective was useful. Not entirely convinced that there isn't another POV that would have served for this. Maybe even E's. Seeing her internal reaction to that last line would have been a doozy.

I'm hoping to be back to R's POV, or even (faint hope) back with Man next time. Events have progressed, no argument there, but I feel like this chapter was really quite passive. I guess that probably would have been the case whoever's POV it was in.

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I read this earlier in the week, but didn't write anything down. I thought it was okay but could definitely be better, but I couldn't quite pinpoint why. I intended to go back, reread, and make notes, but then, "oh, right, that con I signed up for really last minute and got a table at because someone cancelled" so I never got back to it.

For the most part, I remember being fairly into the chapter. I would have made notes on the first read if I had a huge problem with something very specific. I did get annoyed at the new pov. I was not a huge fan of that character, and had a hard time getting into the rhythm of that character's dialect. However, I can see the value of including that POV since it offers a different perspective from the other narrators like S, O, R, E etc...

Since my brain still fried, I'm kind of going to bounce off of what other people said.

On 3/11/2019 at 11:48 PM, kais said:

There was lots of good tension in the council meeting and I loved the end--though that last line could go.

This was one of the better council meetings. I didn't get lost or bored with it as I sometimes do with the council.

On 3/14/2019 at 1:53 PM, industrialistDragon said:

I just plain don't like the guy. So, I mean, well done on making his personality distinct and believable!

I feel the same as @industrialistDragon and this might be why I was struggling to comment. I couldn't find a good reason to critique him; I just really didn't like him and thought he was super annoying. But that isn't a flaw on your part...you could take it as a compliment.

6 hours ago, Robinski said:

Not entirely convinced that there isn't another POV that would have served for this. Maybe even E's. Seeing her internal reaction to that last line would have been a doozy.

I'm hoping to be back to R's POV, or even (faint hope) back with Man next time. Events have progressed, no argument there, but I feel like this chapter was really quite passive. I guess that probably would have been the case whoever's POV it was in.

I think what actually happens in the meeting and what not works, but I'm not 100% we are seeing it all from the right character...but I also could be bias because I didn't like the new POV and didn't like that character in Seeds...

Anyway, this week is spring break, so you will probably get a much more detailed reply on tomorrow's sub!

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I feel the same as @industrialistDragon and this might be why I was struggling to comment. I couldn't find a good reason to critique him; I just really didn't like him and thought he was super annoying. But that isn't a flaw on your part...you could take it as a compliment.

I think what actually happens in the meeting and what not works, but I'm not 100% we are seeing it all from the right character...but I also could be bias because I didn't like the new POV and didn't like that character in Seeds...

Yeah, I'm going to have to feel this character out. Please let me know what conclusion you come to as the story progresses. There are some plans for his character in the 3rd and 4th book, so I want to introduce his POV (and I seem to be on the right track with everyone disliking him!), but if he's too annoying, I can modify.

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I did it a couple times. It's either this or repeat "Majus." I'm not a big fan of it either, so I'll have to see how I can change it.

Hmm, yeah. Difficult one. I can see how it's good form for the youngsters to do it, showing respect for their mentors and elders. I presume that m a j i would not refer to each other in that way. It's possible that it's just me being a grumpy old man, but that would not cover your own dissatisfaction with it, of course

6 hours ago, Mandamon said:

Well, he is feeling the vibrations...

And I kind of got that from reading on. I almost left my comment out.

5 hours ago, Mandamon said:

There are some plans for his character in the 3rd and 4th book,

Whoa, what are you James Cameron now No, absolutely delighted to hear there is a long game at work. I've kind of flip-flopped a bit on this. R's POV is so distinctively different from the others, not just because of the patois, but because of his standpoint, and that does bring a valuable change in feel to that section, which serves to contrast against the other POVs which, essentially, are all striving after the same thing. I can relate it back to Callan (the 'villain')'s POV in TMM, which got adverse comment at the time, but maybe that is just a good sign that it really reached people on that level, and was effective at what you wanted it to do. As long as it's not in every second chapter, it could be perfectly serviceable, I think. Also, it allows us to hear his mentor's Sath POV on what's going on.

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Whoa, what are you James Cameron now No, absolutely delighted to hear there is a long game at work. I've kind of flip-flopped a bit on this. R's POV is so distinctively different from the others, not just because of the patois, but because of his standpoint, and that does bring a valuable change in feel to that section, which serves to contrast against the other POVs which, essentially, are all striving after the same thing.

He only pops up here and there, but I'm really enjoying his different take on things!

And yes, I've got plans! Books 2 and 3 were originally going to be one, but I figured I could sell two 100k books more easily than one 200k book! Which means what was originally book 3 will probably end up being #4 and 5...