Nope. Big can of Nope. Unless it's a raping simulator, games shouldn't be banned. 18+ ratings sure, all in all it's up to the consumer, and parents, otherwise it's a failure of parents to watch their kids. Imho.

Anyone who takes actions in video games and other media to heart and applies it in RL, needs some major help. The majority of us know right and wrong.

This all comes from a country that has pretty much legalized prostitution....was the term "double standards" not something that got carried over on the prison ships?

Other fun laws include:-Children may not purchase cigarettes, but they may smoke them.-Taxi cabs are required to carry a bale of hay in the trunk.-Bars are required to stable, water and feed the horses of their patrons.-Only licensed electricians may change a light bulb.

Maybe its all that sunshine they're getting? Making them go slightly nutty...

To be fair that's the same as in the UK. A 16 year old can get drunk and smoke as many cigarettes as they want, their consumption isn't illegal, only the purchase of them either by or for someone under-age is.

OT: Yeah stupid rule. If it's bad slap an 18/21+ rating on it and let mature adults decide for themselves.

They're probably just jealous that there's no Australia gun that shoots huge goddamn spiders and murderous pieces of nature....uh...Australia is still actively trying to kill the people inhabiting it, right?

This decision is stupid and is only going to hurt our local businesses and economy. In a world of digital sales and international shipping, there is no chance of them keeping it out of Australia, it just means we will be putting our money into the economies of other countries. And if *somehow* they managed to ban imports and digital sales, well our own government will be forcing us to do something illegal and hurtful to the companies that make and produce it. I'm still sore about the toned down version of L4D2 Australia got, and the fact that even on steam, we can't buy the proper version here.

I think that it's appalling that our R18+ rating is just being dodged because people feel scared of drugs. We fear drug use incentives more than murder incentives? Really?

I suppose the argument for it in the conservative mind is that it's easier to be teased into drug use than to be teased into murder. But even assuming that drug use is immoral, and I would call THAT a double standard - we do use many legal drugs to boost ourselves, like caffeine - how is an R18+ rating not enough to guard people from being influenced so heavily?

The answer is that as usual we have a bunch of very old religious or otherwise ignorant people deciding what genuine adults want to do with their time, including shoving their barbaric, over-fearful stances towards drugs right down our throats. As a gamer and as an Australian, I've had enough. They have not seen the end of the movement for the R18+ rating. As word spreads that the rating is not enough to fix everything, I am sure that we'll have a storm of angry people ready to force the system not to do this or else practice civil disobedience and find their own way to this content.

At least this mess started with a game that was not looking like it would be that great to begin with.

6unn3r:This all comes from a country that has pretty much legalized prostitution....was the term "double standards" not something that got carried over on the prison ships?

Apart from your borderline prejudiced and ignorant language here (really, our country existed before "prison ships" - there were indigenous people here for up to 40,000 years before any Europeans arrived, not to mention the many people who brought and worked with the convicts), I must take issue with the idea that this is somehow related to the double standard at work here. Where is the connection between prostitution being legal and the game being banned for giving incentives to drug use?

On an unrelated note, prostitution being legalised is an excellent idea for societal stability. It creates a good source of tax income for governments, reduces potential rape and the dangers involved in actually using the service of a prostitute due to regulation - and there are people, for example, with mental disabilities, that deserve their chance to enjoy a sex life if they can afford it, or at least the experience. Legalisation also brings down the connection between other crime and prostitution, removing it almost completely from the underworld social circles of the countries where this is done.

Other fun laws include:-Children may not purchase cigarettes, but they may smoke them.

Of course this is how it is. This makes a lot of sense. How would you enforce a rule that stops people from smoking cigarettes, say, in their own home? There's plenty of reason not to smoke as a minor as it is if the cops will come up to you and ask who gave you cigarettes, then finds out who. What do you think the person who got in trouble will do?

-Taxi cabs are required to carry a bale of hay in the trunk.-Bars are required to stable, water and feed the horses of their patrons.

Where are these laws enforced, if they even exist? None of this is true or at least practised, I can tell you as an Australian myself. And if it's a joke, it's in poor taste.

-Only licensed electricians may change a light bulb.

Maybe its all that sunshine they're getting? Making them go slightly nutty...

This may - MAY - be true, but I don't think that this stops a lot of people from changing their own light bulbs.

As for the nutty comment, I might ask who's talking. Making assumptions is definitely insane. There's a light bulb you yourself might change.

By and large I agree with you. I think the depiction of drugs in videogames still receives undue weight in classification ratings because of this idea that being 'interactive' is more convincing and indoctrinating than a non-interactive form of media. This hasn't been conclusively demonstrated by various studies, but it forms the backbone of this policy. What's most ridiculous is that they can get around the restrictions by just changing the names - this hardly implies that the system is working as intended.

But given that the other half of why Saints Row was banned involved raping people with anal probes, you can't say it didn't have it coming.

Of course games don't have a responsibility to be moral. People have a responsibility to be moral. What is the point of escapism if I can not say "Screw my responsibilities" in that escapism. Same reason that in most games you don't have to go to school, get a job, pay bills or taxes, and respect other peoples feelings.

6unn3r:This all comes from a country that has pretty much legalized prostitution....was the term "double standards" not something that got carried over on the prison ships?

Other fun laws include:-Children may not purchase cigarettes, but they may smoke them.-Taxi cabs are required to carry a bale of hay in the trunk.-Bars are required to stable, water and feed the horses of their patrons.-Only licensed electricians may change a light bulb.

Maybe its all that sunshine they're getting? Making them go slightly nutty...

America has some fun laws too:You have to be 18 to star in an adult film, yet 21 to watch one. You are allowed to die for your country at an age where you do not get to vote. In one state five or more native Americans traveling together may be considered a war-party and may be fired upon. I'm not sure which state had a rule that setting of a nuclear bomb within city limits is punishable with a 500 dollar fine.

Most of these laws are antiquated and not enforced by polite society, they're apparently a pain to remove from litigation so bureaucracy maintains them.

Also fun, Nasa has a protocol in it's manual for what to do in case of viking invasion.

As an Australian who played and enjoyed Saints Row 2 and 3, I'm not to disappointed. This game really doesn't look that appealing to me- looks almost identical to Saints Row the Third, except the graphics are a bit darker and murkier.

6unn3r:This all comes from a country that has pretty much legalized prostitution....was the term "double standards" not something that got carried over on the prison ships?

Other fun laws include:-Children may not purchase cigarettes, but they may smoke them.-Taxi cabs are required to carry a bale of hay in the trunk.-Bars are required to stable, water and feed the horses of their patrons.-Only licensed electricians may change a light bulb.

Maybe its all that sunshine they're getting? Making them go slightly nutty...

America has some fun laws too:You have to be 18 to star in an adult film, yet 21 to watch one. You are allowed to die for your country at an age where you do not get to vote. In one state five or more native Americans traveling together may be considered a war-party and may be fired upon. I'm not sure which state had a rule that setting of a nuclear bomb within city limits is punishable with a 500 dollar fine.

Most of these laws are antiquated and not enforced by polite society, they're apparently a pain to remove from litigation so bureaucracy maintains them.

Also fun, Nasa has a protocol in it's manual for what to do in case of viking invasion.

I think you mean drinking alcohol instead of voting, voting and military service are both at 18 to my knowledge. Also, if this was meant to be a jab at 6unn3r's country, then you made a direct miss my friend (unless you know more about him than I found on his profile).

OT: I can't help but feel disappointed about this. Regardless of game quality, this means validating the 18+ rating has had no effect and the censors can still decide what Australian gamers can buy locally. Adult gamers will still be able to play whatever they want, but it still sucks to be forced into either huge import prices or piracy. Any chance action like this can become not allowed before a good game comes out with some less than child-friendly subject matter?

Well, sucks. But then Australians gamers will thn do what they have always done ... import the game from the UK. Anybody with even a modest collection of games know they can simply import a game from the UK, or Hong Kong, and it will likely cost less even with individual game shipping than paying full Australian retail for the same game.

All this denied rating bullshit does is hurt Australian retailers who might have been able to compete, atleast, on the ease of returns side of things.

Apart from your borderline prejudiced and ignorant language here (really, our country existed before "prison ships" - there were indigenous people here for up to 40,000 years before any Europeans arrived, not to mention the many people who brought and worked with the convicts), I must take issue with the idea that this is somehow related to the double standard at work here. Where is the connection between prostitution being legal and the game being banned for giving incentives to drug use?

On an unrelated note, prostitution being legalised is an excellent idea for societal stability. It creates a good source of tax income for governments, reduces potential rape and the dangers involved in actually using the service of a prostitute due to regulation - and there are people, for example, with mental disabilities, that deserve their chance to enjoy a sex life if they can afford it, or at least the experience. Legalisation also brings down the connection between other crime and prostitution, removing it almost completely from the underworld social circles of the countries where this is done.

I think there's nothing wrong with prostitution being legalized, but if the government is going to nanny you about video games and then when it comes to prostitution say that adults can make their own decisions, it seems a bit inconsistent.

6unn3r:This all comes from a country that has pretty much legalized prostitution....was the term "double standards" not something that got carried over on the prison ships?

Other fun laws include:-Children may not purchase cigarettes, but they may smoke them.-Taxi cabs are required to carry a bale of hay in the trunk.-Bars are required to stable, water and feed the horses of their patrons.-Only licensed electricians may change a light bulb.

Maybe its all that sunshine they're getting? Making them go slightly nutty...

Yarp. Well, specifically on the horse thing it dates back to the fact that public hotels ('pubs') had to house travelling intercolonial drovers or people looking for work. Pubs were (and still are) affordable accomodation, and given that pubs regularly served station masters also on the move, as well as other proprietors of local business for meals and drinks, it was a good place to conduct business, make some quick friends, and ease one's travels.

So semi-decent lodgings for live transportation methods were required. It was a big country with very few people in it. Not like the rest of the world, where travelling inbetween towns and cities even on horseback was not so much a chore. Australian climate is also much harsher than the average climes of Europe, or the colonies of the Americas (On average, that is ... Canada and Peru are examples that first leap out at me as places wholly hostile to human life within a natural context). Very little fresh water or good grazing land.

Last thing you wanted was one of perhaps only two horses you have taken on the trip from Melbourne to Brisbane dying of thirst because the lonely inn and innkeeper on the side of a dusty road wouldn't provide a bucket of water and some high energy bran for your horse.

To give you an idea of such a journey, it is 1638 kilometers (Further than Paris to Warsaw), and that's assuming you are using the same optimized path as current 21st century ground transportation. Over a countryside that, in the 19th century, had a far reduced population, ranging from rocky to arid conditions, lacking accurate topographical maps, and in many situations droving 1000s of heads of cattle.

So it made good sense that an innkeeper was required to help take good care of both a traveler and his mount(s). It was critical for business.

-------

On the taxis thing, that's bollocks. As too is getting an electrician to change a lightbulb. And minors above the age of 16 are allowed to smoke, just not purchase cigarettes.

Upon reading your profile however, I will remind you that a greater number (per capita) of your countrymen choose to live in Australia, than Australians choosing to live in Great Britain. One of the stated reasons is specifically because of our sunshine and our white beaches. It's totally worth the skin cancer!

Upon reading your profile however, I will remind you that a greater number (per capita) of your countrymen choose to live in Australia, than Australians choosing to live in Great Britain. One of the stated reasons is specifically because of our sunshine and our white beaches. It's totally worth the skin cancer!

Well i'll be the first to admit "my country" has gone to the dogs, i blame the government and all the silly laws they do and or dont pass....To be honest i really dont care anymore, i just live my life, make my money and get along just fine without the need to listen to Mr...urrgghh Thatcher is it still?

If you want to ban games because of violence then why not do the same with all other mediums? Books contain far more violence than any video game...(the bibles a good starting point) same for tv and film. People will always find a way around a ban, just like school kids did with Lady Chatterly's Lover and Catcher in the Rye and Catch 22 and so on and so on...

Buy me a plane ticket and i'll gladly spend the British winter down under.

As for the nutty comment, I might ask who's talking. Making assumptions is definitely insane. There's a light bulb you yourself might change.

I think you had a sense of humor failure. Jokes can be in any taste the joker makes them, you dont find it funny? So what? I dont find fart jokes funny but i dont start slinging accusations about regarding the jokers intelligence. It's age old banter, lighten up.

I think there's nothing wrong with prostitution being legalized, but if the government is going to nanny you about video games and then when it comes to prostitution say that adults can make their own decisions, it seems a bit inconsistent.

6unn3r:I think you had a sense of humor failure. Jokes can be in any taste the joker makes them, you dont find it funny? So what? I dont find fart jokes funny but i dont start slinging accusations about regarding the jokers intelligence. It's age old banter, lighten up.

After all im just a "pommy bastard". What do i know?

I'd find what you said funny, in other circumstances.

I never made that comment, and sure, you can call it age old banter. But let's say you made a similar comment about America in here. Would that be then labelled "flame bait", or responded to by about twenty times as many people defending it? Australia is constantly criticised in this forum just because of our R18+ rating debacle and I'm sick of the double standards which people practice about it. It's still flame bait if it's about my country, same as any other - or else it's never flame bait. Consistency is something that I demand.

Before anyone says it, I am not a nationalist either, far be it from me to defend a country from jokes if everyone is made fun of equally. I just think it's hypocritical for people to be careful about joking about one nation but not another. Whether you'd do that is beside the point, in fact at this point it sounds like you'd make fun of America too. Just to be clear, I was taking a position on principle, not due to some personal problem with you.

There's also the risk that people will take seriously whatever generalisation is said in jest here. That is how ignorance develops. I'd rather nip that in the bud. Sure, lighten up - but it's easier when it's not you who's under scrutiny.