Potentially contentious proposal: Rename this group to "Queer Drupal" or similar

Back at DrupalCon San Francisco, when this group was created, we spent a fair amount of time discussing the name of it. We wanted it to be inclusive of all "non-straight" identities, and so we went for the most inclusive acronym we could think of: Lesbian Gay Bisexual Trans[gender|sexual] Queer (I've also seen "Questioning") Intersex.

I very strongly support the spirit of this group's name. However, the practicalities of it create some challenges:

It's pretty much impossible to either remember or communicate verbally the URL to this group. This makes it challenging to bring new people on board, and to keep an existing community around and thriving.

Not all LGBTQI people are aware of the acronym LGBTQI. It therefore can work against our stated ideal of inclusiveness because people don't realize the group exists and is for them.

When trying to coordinate at conferences on Twitter and similar, #queerdrupal has obvious immediate meaning, #lgbtqi could be misspelled #glbtqi or #glbt and now you have a big-ass coordination mess on your hands. :)

So. Thoughts? Is it possible to improve the "usability" of this group without making individuals feel unwelcome?

As a transgender person, I would feel less than unwelcome. While I have many friends who identify as queer, I know of no TG who would accept that label. We had to fight to put the T on LGBT, and still have our battles to keep it there.

I agree that the alphabet soup is not great (and you don't have the "A" for allies). So how about "Rainbow?" That shouldn't be off-putting to anyone.

But I do get that it's problematic for some in the community, so probably good to go with something more neutral like "rainbow" or "pride" or whatever. But definitely in favor of changing the group name from LGBT.*, way too cumbersome to add all the letters and everyone seems to prefer a different order for them.

First of all, let me say for as hard as it is to be gay or lesbian, it's so much more difficult to be trans. Love you! embrace you! And whether or not you feel it, you always have a place at my table. You are beautiful in every way and don't let anyone on this planet tell you different.

That being said, drupal-q is very memorable and automatically puts an idea of what the group is about in the head of anyone reading the title.

I agree that the acronyms are confusing (when I moved to the Pacific Northwest, I got a little confused by LGBTA since it had been GLBTA everywhere I had previously lived), but I also agree with Nancy that "queer" leaves out both transgendered people and our straight allies.

Rainbow seems a little tired, but it's something that everyone seems to identify with and recognize.

Webchick, thanks for starting this and also being so clear in intention about why you wanted to change the name -- that's made this a really productive conversation.

Though rainbow feels kind of generic, it's easy to remember, everybody knows how to spell it, and it's inclusive. And so, I vote for that.

While I personally identify as queer, I think "queer" in general is not always welcoming to other communities, in particular communities of color, straight allies, and transgender folks that have other lexicons for being non-straight, transgendered, etc.

I air on the side of "less is more" and by that agree that LGBTQI it long and inaccessible for some (although queer and questioning aren't alternates for one another, they traditionally go side by side - LGBTQQia -- which is LONG). I think Drupal-Q would be a great choice because it 1. it adds a little color to Drupal, 2. references queer, without necc labeling anyone who doesn't want to be, queer 3. has a panache to it 4. doesnt take up too many characters (and employs a hypen which makes it readable by google). I think it's important to distinquish ourselves as a unique community, but also to remain a part of the larger body of the Drupal community.

I am on the board for an organization calle "BUTCH Voices" and we run into this same problem with naming because we recognize that we all have different names that we call ourselves -- and not every Masculine of Center woman is a "butch" sometimes she's a "Stud" or a "Domme." But that knowledge begets the issue of "Do we list every type of person we mean? Or... Do we find something that everyone understands?"

The organization is called BUTCH Voices probably most because there is no misunderstanding the core demographic - but upon closer inspection we are much more thoughtful than that.

Frankly I think Queer Drupal also works - mostly because "Queer" isn't a term that isn't restrictive to those who are cisgender vs. those who are transgender. Being queer is (at least for me) more of a political identity that simply means you don't abide by cisgender heter-norms. If you're cisgender and gay, lesbian, bisexual, "same gender loving" that's queer. If you're transgender and gay, lesbian, bisexual, straight - that's queer. The common thread is that we all, in some way, work around the "rules" of how we should interact sexually with another person.

All that said, I know that many people still avoid the word because of how it "sounds" or "feels." I'm less inclined toward "Drupal Pride" - I think it relies to heavily on a secondary metaphor. And frankly I get tired of having to be directly associated with events branded as "GAY or Queer" that do next to nothing to create more space for people like us.

This is an interesting conversation, and thanks webchick for the initiative. I totally support the intention to have something memorable, hard to mess up, inclusive, and obvious to newcomers. I hate admitting it, but I'm so sick of gay/trans/bi/whatever non-mainstream-hetero things being Rainbow-y or Pride-y; and yet, it does seem like the most logical choice. Personally, I'd be fine with Queer Drupal, but I respect the opposition of those who don't identify as such. It seems self-defeating to rename an inclusive group to exclude some members.

of all the names I like Drupal-Q the best for all the reasons Krys pointed out. However, I understand the hard fought battles that Nancy wrote about, so we can't overlook that. Rainbow is sweet and seems to fulfill the task of needing to be all-inclusive and easy to identify as an LGBTQ group. However Drnikki has hit on the tired feeling of things always having to be rainbow-y or pride-y.
I think everyone should brain storm a bit more so we actually have some names to choose from and not just leave it at the first great idea.

I'm really interested in Nancy's thoughts on Drupal-Q? Given the discussion. I'm grateful to be a part of this conversation.

Also a note, there's a website I know of, that employs the Q as a symbol of being a special brand of "dapper" --- dapperQ.com.

I think the name should really be meaningful to the audience for which it will be primarily shared (read: the people who would be in it) accessible to people who will join, and intriguing to everyone else.

Oh... and not cliche? (Read: pride, and rainbows)

We should bear in mind that not all hetero-non-conforming people get down with rainbows or pride, that People of Color (PoC) prides look a lot different from prides advertised for "everyone." And that the community about which we speak despite the small cluster of letters we use to describe it, is in fact quite vast.

We can makes themes so fine
LGBTQI
Just take a look
modules and hooks
the Drupal Rainbow

Personally, I like Queer Drupal. I have also thought of Queer as a vastly inclusive umbrella term. I know that it was used as a derogatory slur in times past, but I've reclaimed it. I'm on the upper end of the drupal age demographic and most of the people I know who object to it are older than I.

I'm entitled to a couple of those letters, but big ol' d*ke suites me fine ... (grin) ...
I'm a member of the local MCC here in Fairfax - couple years ago we had a big discussion on the Queer term.
A number of the church members of near retirement age had problems with "queer" ...
I came to terms with that term years ago - it has no sting, just means odd or different -
and as a geek girl, I like the being different badge!
... but Queer? Some folks haven't or can't get there!
I've no problem with Drupal-Q (sounds like a CCR song)
Rainbow is ok with me, but it is kind of rainbow-brite cliched ...!

I didn't actually expect this thread to get many replies given the general activity level of this group, but look at how many of us there are out there lurking! :) Awesome. It also looks like everyone so far is pretty well on board that our current "alphabet soup" is a bit problematic.

I actually didn't know that the word "queer" had a definition in some peoples' minds of excluding transgendered folks. Maybe this is a generational thing? My understanding of this word is much the same of Krys Freeman's and others': a very inclusive word intended to encompass the myriad of "not abiding by cisgender heter-norms". So thanks, Nancy, for sharing that perspective.

I prefer "Drupal Rainbow" (or similar) over "Drupal-Q" due to the obviousness and inclusiveness factor, which are the primary reasons for this thread. "Q" also clearly implies "Queer" which is problematic for at least one person who's spoken up so far. On the other hand, I also definitely empathize with Nikki and others who've said that the "Rainbow" cliché is tired, as is the expectation that LGBTQI people have to be "pride-y".

I think it probably makes sense though to keep this thread open a bit longer (maybe a couple of weeks?) to give folks a bit longer to respond and see if any other suggestions come up that people feel favourable about. Then... I'm not sure. A poll node? Seems a bit weird, but not sure how else to capture data "scientifically" and fairly. If anyone has some other suggestions on reaching a consensus, though, I'm all ears.

Generational, perhaps. I am, as one person called it, "near retirement age." I certainly was degraded by my [career Army] father as being "queer" but I don't object to the word for that reason. I do appreciate those who feel it to be inclusive of us. But I have also met many L's and G's who do not include T's in the term. But the exclusion is probably more from the T side than the other. Many T's appreciate being included in LGBT (in any order), but also want to maintain the identity of T, as do L's anf G's at some point. Witness the desired addition of "gender identity" to discrimination statutes rather than wishing to use the "sexual orientation" clauses. I personally consider myself a "straight" woman, but by legal and theological definitions, my transition makes me homosexual. One thing that does set T's apart is that many of us wish to "blend in" and become indistinguishable from the mainstream - somewhat at odds with the "Pride" movement. Others, like me, would rather accept our situation and use it to educate the general public (okay, and the LGBT community as well) to the meaning of being TG.

I do tend to agree that "Rainbow" is a bit hackneyed. However, it does speak to a spectrum of diversity rather that a separateness. I believe that, as Drupallers, most of us wish to be equals and included in the Drupal community, rather than let our orientation/identity define us. I started going to the local Drupal group well after my reputation on DO was established and it was so wonderful to be accepted for that than for my personal presentation. But it was a bit amusing to see Moshe's initial double-take.

Drupal is as much (if not more) about community as it is development. Whenever you join a community or even just look to join a community, you want to know if there are other people like you -- people you can identify with on a level beyond just your craft. They aren't segregation lines; they're anchor points. You keep people in a community by showing that you value who they are, not just what they can provide for you.

It's also easy for those of us who have been out for a while to forget what it was like to not be out or to have just come out. There's a huge amount of fear that being who you are will ruin your professional life, especially if you live in a repressive region. Having this group lets people know that they don't have to choose one or the other: they can be who they are and be part of the Drupal community.

Also, we want the members of the Drupal community to feel like human beings with identity and that that identity is acknowledged. What we don't want is a community of generic developers, developers, developers who don't exist to us unless they're writing code. This is something that sets the Drupal community apart, and it's a stark contrast to many other development communities.

I agree Shannon. If it weren't for awesome community that surrounds Drupal, I probably would be doing python or rails now :-) And remember too, the Drupal community is not just developers but writers, editors and other non-techies.

Before I confessed to being what I am (that's different from "who"), I experienced disregard in the community both for being a newbie and for being a woman. For those of us in the Western world, the sexual aspect is largely a shock, but the Drupal community is truly global, and there are parts of this world where women are still second class citizens who are not allowed to work, and even still regarded as property. And whether you are one of those people or not, as one described, the "repressive areas" still cover the vast majority of the Earth, and even the USA. When one encounters that, there is usually a need to vent; having people who understand and can help one get over it is a very valuable resource. It's very difficult for those who have never felt the sting of discrimination (or oppression) to understand how de-humanizing it can be. From looking at your picture, other than possibly anti-semitism, I doubt you have experienced that.

If you really don't care what a person is as long as they can do the job, kudos to you and your open mind. I wish there were 6 billion more people like you in the world.

Yes, we are all just Drupallers here, or at least that's how it should be.

Shannon and Nancy, y'all write so passionately and I am really happy to be in this group with all of you.

In the meantime, I have been trying really hard to come up with something new and different and what do I come up with?

Ladyfingers.

Drupal Ladyfingers. Can you believe it? I am also very drawn to anything with "thunder" or "robots" in the title. So I came up with
Drupal Trans-G Thunderbots... and Ladyfinger friends.
Is this descriptive of our diversity? No. Or maybe. I don't know anymore. Help, I hope there is a poll soon!!

Drupal Rainbow is sounding better every minute. But who wouldn't want to be a Trans-G Thunderbot !!?

Maria, it is easy to be passionate when you've finally become free to be yourself after 55 years of living someone else's life. And I've experienced just about the worst of the discrimination (obviously I haven't yet been killed for it). I have been beaten; I have been publicly laughed at; I have been told by my lifelong church that I was no longer welcome; I have watched as people argues over who would wait on me; I have been denied employment. I was less than human when I was in the US South. Now here in Boston, it's almost like heaven. My God calls me to educate, so I do.

Trans-G Thurnderbot? I like that. May I use it when I form the softball team?

Nancy it hurts my heart all you had to endure. Your strength really comes through in your beautiful writing.
I think one of the things that ties us all together, is the common experience we have of being treated less-than at some point in our lives. Yet each of us is so different, our experiences, how we identify- sexually or otherwise. So this group is for cherishing our differences as well as our commonalities.

Commonality: We all love Drupal and want to be Drupal rockstars if we aren't ones already... also, in certain parts of the world we would all be killed.
Differences: Geography, skin color, background, sexual identity, sexual preference, experiences, culture, ethnicity.....

So many differences, yet we are all one. What does that make you think of?

A Trans-G Thunderbot that's Wot!

Hell, yeah Nancy use it for the team! We are all Trans-G Thunderbots. with a little rainbow ladyfingers thrown in. Forget the unicorns. You know what's better than a unicorn?
A pistachio pony that's Wot!

Seeing as how the name Drupal is based on a Dutch word, maybe if the decision is to go with rainbow, it shouldn't actually be the English word "rainbow" ... but rather based on the Dutch word for rainbow, "regenboog." I think this would make the members Regenboogies :)

I definitely agree that the acronym is unwieldy and a bit opaque. I'm personally fond of Q (we talk about the "Q-munity" here, and it can mean whatever you want it to), but I can definitely sympathize with all the trans people who've struggled their whole lives because so many don't understand that trans identity is completely different from "gay." On the other hand, the nice thing about "Queer" is that it avoids specific labels and so (hopefully) doesn't exclude people who don't see their "letter" specified in an acronym.

I do think it's important to include "allies" too, somehow.

I personally find "pride" uncomfortable, because a lot of us don't want to march in any parades, you know? And it sort of excludes "allies" again.

I think "Rainbow Drupal" sounds a bit silly, though I certainly wouldn't object to a rainbow Druplicon. :)

Contemporarily I've found that the folks most bothered by the term "queer" are folks of our elder generations - and I think I am very empathetic to this issue because quite frankly it only recently became "en vogue" to self identify with the term. However I don't think that necessarily makes it an absolute write off.

c. Regarding the pending name update.

It sounds like, we all agree that:
-- Alphabet Soup = Not Ideal
-- "Queer" is problematic for some so we don't want to exclude
-- "Rainbow" and "Pride" are hackneyed/cliche
-- "TransG Thunderbot" = Fun (Perhaps tongue in cheek?)

I've heard others mention that they dig Drupal-Q. I think we need not to lose sight of the fack that this entire thread was broached by WebChick who came to the table with the original suggestion. I personally feel like it would be nice to consider her thought on this with a little weight, given that no one else broached it, even if we each may have been thinking it.

I think Drupal-Q offers a compromise -- as it does not explicitly identify anyone as Queer who does not want to be. And lends itself re-branding. What if it's an anchor to the alphabet soup? For instance ---> LGBT[Q] --- if we were to add the name of the group to let's say the Druplibow/Drupalbow t-shirts? For simplicity's sake and ease of explaining sharing with new people (and outsiders)- we could make the Group Name:Drupal-Q - For a subtitle or tagline we could go with xjm's point earlier -- and describe the group to others (in conversation) as - The Drupal LGBT[Q]-munity

Could that work?

As far as allies are concerned - I think the Q-munity -- implies allies. And I think that we might overcomplicate it by forcing a reference to allies in the name.

"BUTCH Voices is a grassroots organization dedicated to all self-identified Masculine of Center* people and our Allies. We, at BUTCH Voices, feel it is important to bring together our diverse communities, build bridges, make connections. We use our collective voices to gain better understanding of each other and promote positive visibility with intention, integrity and transparency."

"For simplicity's sake and ease of explaining sharing with new people (and outsiders)- we could make the Group Name: Drupal-Q - For a subtitle or tagline we could go with xjm's point earlier -- and describe the group to others (in conversation) as - The Drupal LGBT[Q]-munity."

I think it makes a lot of sense and should work. I like how it sounds and looks and it is identifiable. Finding something snazzy and identifiable is tough. I wish people thought immediately of LGBTQ when I said the word "transG thunderbot" but that is just not gonna happen.

Drupal-Q is the front runner for me.

I also think Druplibow makes the most sense because it is a a type of Druplicon.

Regardless of our age, we must also consider the general public's (or even just the Drupal public's) perception of "queer." Personally, I can't support it, or even "Q." But that's just me, and, yes, we should give Angie some extra weight in this decision - or even absolute power.

@xjm: Gay and transgender are not really so different as you may think. Take a look at http://nancywichmann.com/gender_101.html (sorry, I messed up my theme and am temporarily back on Garland). To be really controversal, I think the conditions have the same root cause(s), just "slightly" different manifestations.

Why sorry? :-) We've got to love each other across the spectrum. Flex your femme hun!

"Off Center Drupallers" I like where this is going. I think this starts to push us out of the established groove, and offer possibilities for new language. Although I could see this easily become a way to stigmatize the group as well. Also think it's still pretty wordy.

If you all haven't gathered I'm anti-cliche. It's too easy and perhaps not the best representation of our creative assets. And I'm pretty sure we're creative talented people here if we get down with Drupal.

I'm still not big on "Rainbow" at all. Too literal. Not creative.

So as not to be a critic without offering alternatives, I'm throwing out some more brain storm options for folks to chew on, and or inspire more - maybe even something that we can all get comfortable with:

"Drupal Spectrum" (referencing rainbow)

"Drupal Arc" (referencing Rainbow)

"Drupal Storm" -- brain storm -- which implies rain... and a showering of some sort? (I know a stretch - thinking out loud. Bear with me!)

I'd leaning toward Rainbow Drupal, because, cliché as it may be, it's a lot wider understood. While I'm down with queer, a lot of LGBTQ folks in my age group and older are not. If you go even older, you'll find folks who aren't even comfortable with "gay."

I would like us to co-opt another word. I am thinking now that when someone searches on Drupal.org and types in gay or lesbian etc, our group will come up because of our description and conversations on the site. So we don't really need something "identifiable" do we? Because Identifiable will leave us with something that's played and tired and something we don't even relate to anymore.

Also we will be present at the Cons and Camps so eventually our name will become synonymous with all that is LGBTQ and Drupal.

Therefore Drupal Spectrum, Arc and Storm are good ones to think about. Especially if Drupal-Q feels offensive to some.

It just seems like none of us feels particularly like a "rainbow" or "pride" or "queer" or even Gay or Lesbian. Lets face it we are something different. So we need to come up with a word that comes close.

Just to clarify, I personally identify as gay, lesbian, queer or even just "non-heterosexual." I have a few big ol rainbow flags from marching in gay pride parades, and some tongue-in-cheek "I'm a homo" queer accessories. There's not a lot of labels we could give the group that would offend me personally.

With that said, I think we're stuck on a confusion between talking about personal identities and what we're comfortable calling the group.

While my initial vote wasn't for Rainbow, I'm beginning to think it's the best choice. I don't know that we're going to find a term that's as obvious to newcomers, or as inclusive to the way each of us identifies. Yes, it's cliche, but it's cliche because it's overused - which is precisely what makes it obvious and convenient. I don't think we're going to find the same benefit in a word that we co-opt or the same inclusiveness in a word which carries personal-political identity implications (read: queer).

I don't want to silence this discussion prematurely, but perhaps it's time to consider how a final decision will be made. To webchick's earlier point would we resolve this with a poll? Seems rather clinical. A representative from each "identity category" (which just begs a joke "A transman, lesbian, pansexual, butch, gay man, asexual, boi, ally, bear, and a femme walk into a bar....") to weigh in on whether they feel comfortable and included? Seems absurdly reductive.

This is totally the sort of conversation that I love! Can't believe I missed it for this long.

My first choice is to stick with the LGBTQI acronym. I work with many queer and trans community organizations, and most of them opt to spell the entire LONG list out in both full word and acronym form, e.g. "Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Two Spirit, Trans and Gender Non-Conforming People of Color/LGBTSTGNC" from the Audre Lorde Project. That's a deliberate choice to be as fully and explicitly inclusive as possible. For that reason I don't mind acronyms, but I also recognize that this group is not exactly a community organization and that such acronyms are not terribly accessible. (Side note: we're including "I" for intersex, but is that just lip service? Not a fan of just lip service, even with good intentions! I also notice that "I" is not included in the acronyms of many organizations that I know and love; there's probably a very intentional reason for that.)

My second choice is Queer & Trans Drupal (a new choice), with both "Queer" and "Trans" serving as umbrella terms, "Queer" for sexuality and "Trans" for gender. I don't support Queer Drupal or Drupal-Q because they're both just about sexuality, and I do think they exclude folks in the trans spectrum. I don't think we can just say "Oh, but we know it includes trans folks, too." It doesn't, not necessarily. Most people will think about "Queer" or "Q" and basically just think "LGB."

My third, fairly begrudging choice is Rainbow Drupal. I personally feel so over rainbow stuff. And I think it's pretty vague, somewhat euphemistic, and also apt to be interpreted as simply "LGB" without the T or even the Q.

We can look the the language of organizations doing work around these issues for guidance. Here are some examples that are familiar to me:

Audre Lorde Project (org for people of color): Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Two Spirit, Trans and Gender Non-Conforming People of Color/LGBTSTGNCFIERCE (org for youth of color): lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer (LGBTQ)Queers for Economic Justice: they just stick with "queer" in the name and in their text but also refer to "sexual and gender" diversity, identity, liberation, etc.SAGE USA (org for elders): LGBT or GLBTSoutherners on New Ground (SONG): LGBTQ

Responding to my own, somewhat rambly post – I realize that sticking with an acronym in the name doesn't address the problems that Angie/webchick brought up in the first place. And all my example organizations, with the exception for Queers for Economic Justice, avoid naming included identities in their organization names altogether, too. So I rescind my previously stated first choice and am fine for moving away from having an acronym in the group name, but I do think we should be careful and intentional if and when we do list out identities, use acronyms, etc in the group description.

Quick note: On some online communities (well... tumblr), there's an interesting difference in the use of trans vs trans*; trans is narrower used relating to people that are transsexual or at least transitioning whereas trans* is used as umbrella.

I'll try to stay off my soap box here. Within the T community there is way too much differentiation attempted and that's a big part of why we have trouble being recognized as a real political entity. "Transgender" is the preferred umbrella term that encompasses "crossdresser" and "transsexual." Some people want to include drag queens in that group. Regardless of surgical status, a transsexual is someone who wants (needs) to live in the birth-opposed role. Possibly a better term for crossdresser (no hypen is needed any more) is "ambi-gendered;" that is the person is comfortable living in both roles.

IMHO, further differentiating "transsexual" is wrong, except when dealing with the medical community. And yes, I have met many who do, even to looking down on me because I haven't been able to pay for my surgery yet. [If you'd like to donate, please contact me off-list. ;-) ] I'm not even happy with differentiating between transsexual and crossdresser. We're all on one train; does it really matter whether we get off in St. Louis or LA?

Personally, I would prefer to recapture the term "trannie" as short for transgender, but some still dislike the term.

“The limitations of language are something about which all people who are searching for understanding complain; their identities are invisible, incomprehensible, minimized, marginalized, and unacknowledged—and it hurts. Some people respond to this by developing new language, new identity terms, and fresh lexicons of slang to differentiate themselves through which they can bond with others who are ‘in’ enough to know the code. There are many variations on the theme of gender freedom, and many different interpretations of transgender ideology. While acknowledging this normal process of self-assertion, I realized that there are times when groups must accept less-than-ideal terms, at least temporarily, so they can build a broader base of support, comprehension, and understanding.”

On use of transsexual vs transgender, I found this posts made a interesting distinctions before I hadn't really considered. I prefer the use of transgender as an umbrella term, but it helped my understand why people have issues with identifying as it, and possible why the move to using trans* vs trans.

I would include in the umbrella, well, any identity that would consider itself part, but whether an identity considers itself part of it varies depending on person using that identity, it seems. An acronym I saw for the first time this morning was TGQIGNC, which stands for Transgender, gender queer, intersex, and gender non-conforming people (via http://transenough.com/).

Gender Variant has been taught as The Really Big Umbrella Term, describing not only trans and queer but gay, lesbian, and just non-conforming people in general. It's about the most inclusive (and specifically non-exclusive) term I know.

But it's a little dry, so I wouldn't necessarily promote it in this context.

An aside, however: I've observed that whenever language becomes an issue in queer/pickyourterm groups, "trans identity" and all of its variants and contradictions and internal issues and language becomes an overriding, if not controlling, concern. I don't want to see that happen here... it's not all about us, any more than it's all about being gay or lesbian or even something else entirely. What we're reaching for here is commonality, not precision and differentiation.

We're here because we've already decided that we're a group. The only question is how best to communicate that groupness, as opposed to simply labeling it.

I wish that GV was as low as we bothered to segregate. The problem with labels is that they all too often become a way to stratify the community rather than unifying it. Gay is not better than lesbian; transsexual is not better than crossdresser; straight is not better than LGBT. And, yet even that RBUT itself doesn't acknowledge our allies. And even "keyword stuffing" is invariably going to forget somebody, if for no other reason than that person has invented a new identifying term. So I'd like to be known as a "Situationally appropriate partner choosing, femme-leaning, birth-gender-opposing, rights equal human being."

As someone who would appreciate more justice and equality in the world, I am tired of seeing Trans always tacked on to the end of acronyms. That's where my idea for TransG Thunderbot started. I don't mind being represented in a name as an ally instead of what I actually identify with... But I totally respect the need for that in other folks. Anyway my point is:

Why don't we create a name with Trans in the front?

I think it would satisfy my need for something new and forward thinking. Lambda is ok but I dunno, it feels like we went from old to ancient with that one.

I also like Drupal QT's - kinda cute, and counteracts a stereotype I've heard about Butch Lesbians about us being Lesbians because we're not QT's... pshhhh. If they only knew ;-)

I totally dig TORQUE @Maria!! Well played.

It meets a variety of needs:
- Inclusive of those of us of Trans idenitities
- Leadings with a "T" - which I think is dope/radical
- Doesn't anchor group identity on Queer which is problematic for some

Other Benefits
- Sounds kool, gives us a nice kind of swag ;-) (scientific/physics and not!)
- Relates to another term in Physics (re: @Nancy's earlier comment about Lambda and wavelengths)

@Jack: Glad you were able to chime in! Totally the kind of conversation I geek out on too - I deal relatively often in these sorts of conversations so it's a breath of fresh air to talk about this sort of thing with people who also geek out on code! (p.s. i remember you from twitter!)

Re: the alphabet soup, in instances where I'm less concerned with how folks expect to see the letters ordered (or when I am trying to demonstrate a point) I write the letters

TBLG
TQqBLG
TiQqBLGa

Mostly because of points others have raised:
- Trans being tacked on the end
- Queer continuing to be stigmatized by elder generations
- Intersex people only being included as a kind of lip-service while most people in the spectrum don't understand or recognize the complexity of living our society as an intersex person.
- B ahead of L and G because some folks discriminate against bisexuals because of some expectation that they choose
- L before G because we live in a patriarchical society and GLBT was reorganized to LGBT to acknowledge that reality

All really great and compassionate points folks. I continue to enjoy this process.

My votes updated:

Drupal TORQUE!!

Drupal-Q

Drupal QTs

Queer & Trans Drupal

Trans-Queer Drupal (Throwing out Another Formation)

As an aside I think @vonn.new's suggestion of "FABGLITTER" was fun :-) I think the thinking behind that approach is similar to that which helped TORQUE come into fruition!

P.S. I'm wordy. Sorry for the always long posts. I try to condense my comments into maybe 1 a day :-)
P.P.S I still don't think Queer is exclusively about "sexuality" or "sex." [Queer --> "wide open for anyone who does not abide (or subscribe) to by cisgender heter-norms"] I think Queer only starts to fit in those boxes, when are set ideologically on putting it there.

That is a good point about the various sequences of the alphabet soup (my current personal preferred one being LGBTQQI and the longest one I can think of being LGBTQQITSBBDSM) being potentially offensive.

It's probably possible to program the site so that any possible permutation gets redirected to a single group which displays whatever name that was typed in (a la Wikipedia redirects), -- that is, you could type in TGLB or GLBT or LGBT and the name of the group would appear as groups.drupal.org/TGLB or groups.drupal.org/GLBT or groups.drupal.org/LGBT respectively -- that's probably going overboard, although a cool show of Drupal capabilities if it is in fact possible.

We're still left with the issue of spellability and recognizability. LGBTQI is at least unambiguous (athough apparently potentially offensive in sequence).

While Lambda and Pink Triangle are recognizable, they exclude transgender folks.

Queer is offensive to many members of the potential in-group.

Gender and Sexual Minority Drupal? Too wordy.

So, I now revise my vote to either Rainbow or the redirect I describe above.

I don't believe g.d.o is using path_redirect, but I believe it's using core path, which does allow multiple aliases to work at the same time, but that will not redirect (but it will make the url work), but that has problems with SEO I believe and would need an administer to set up.

This site does use path_redirect. I'll gladly create a few redirects for groups as long as they promote the best user experience. I think the rule here would be that the end point for the redirect must be the obvious destination for the start point if a link is given without context.

For example, I don't think a redirect from g.d.o/lambda to g.d.o/lgbtqi-drupal would be obvious to people. Lambda can mean a lot of things and, at least for me, it doesn't have an immediate connection to lgbtqi.

But if there is a decision to change this group name to "Rainbow" (my favorite as well, fwiw) then it makes complete sense to me to have g.d.o/lgbtqi and g.d.o/lgbtqia and g.d.o/glbta all redirect to g.d.o/rainbow

One suggestion: if there is a decision to rename this group in a way that is less obviously tied to the group's focus then I suggest you do a bit of super-inclusive-keyword-stuffing to make sure search engines can find this group. For example, people searching for this group might search for "lesbian Drupal" or "queer Drupal" but they are unlikely to search for "rainbow Drupal" nor "Torque Drupal." The group mission can include lots of acronyms and fully spelled out descriptions. That helps both for SEO and as an indication of inclusiveness (which jackalope has pointed out can be beneficial for its own reasons).

Drupal Qt, Drupal LGBT, Drupal TORQUE, etc.
All good names, if you read the description.

My opinion is that the name should be clear, just by itself.
I'm gay all my life, but still I keep forgetting what LGBTQI stands for.

We can add more and more letters, but there is always one who will feel left outside. Therefore, I think it's very important that we have an umbrella name. That includes anyone. Can we please just make it Drupal Rainbow? Or maybe even better, Drupal Diversity?

For me Queer Drupal would be perfect, but I accept that some groups of people are not ok with this. We had a similar problem with a local group a few years ago, and renamed from LGBT to MSGI - Minority Sexuality and Gender Interests; this was good for many people and it included poly, asexual, kinky people on top of LGBT.

MSGI was deemed to not be obvious enough for people who may be looking for us, so we renamed to LGBTQ a year later. The people defining as queer (including me) then left because we felt Q was just being added as a token measure and were unhappy with removal of support for poly/asexual/kinky people.

The whole naming thing is a nightmare, but I believe that we should first decide on the remit of the group. If it's a support group for LGB people then we call it LGB Drupal, if it's something wider then the name needs picking to suit. Drupal Rainbow to me doesn't cover straight, cis people who are poly/asexual/kinky - but that might be ok if we are unable to support those people.

What I love about the Drupal community is that it is diverse enough and honest enough to acknowledge the full variety of self-identities in people. I'm really loving this thread. It makes our commitment to inclusivity evident.

Drupal Spectrum? Instead of Rainbow? Similar concept, different connotations.

This thread is freekin EPIC !
We should shoot this into space so when humans finally blow up the earth people in other galaxies can see we weren't all that bad.

Our awesomeness aside, I agree with Kaerast and it would be very helpful to review the group's mission.
I get who the group is for, Webchick wrote : "non-straight identities"
Maybe Webchick, who started this group and is the organizer, could outline:

why was the group created?
what will the group be doing?
how does drupal fit into this?

This will make it easier to decide which name is most appropriate. um prolly not, but I realized I am not really clear on the answer to these questions.
I think we would end up being more active in the group if (besides knowing who we are) we knew what we were doing together and how drupal fits into it.

I know there are groups that use ANGLE as an acronym: A_____ Network of Gay and Lesbian Employees, but that is not my suggestion, thus it's use of lowercase letters after the capitalized 'A'.

Why Angle?

It is in contrast to straight (and narrow) but this is subtle at first appearance.

It does not favor any one group of people.

It's catchy enough that people may ask "What is Drupal Angle?" and may even be enlightened when they wander into the group if presented with a well crafted statement.

It's not overused.

My one complaint might be that "angle" suggests "not straight" unless you construct straight as a 180 degree angle.

I think I actually like Angles more than Angle because the plurality suggests there's more than one angle or more than one type of person in the group or more than one view represented including that 180 degree angle. Angles suggests diversity.

Also, inclusion is today a more important theme for me. When I began my outward journey as a gay man, it was most important to join a gay group. What was most important then was identification and self-acceptance within a community of like-folk. But soon after, it became equally important to belong to a group that represented inclusion rather than a group of my own kind. I was a board member of a GLBT community center with the motto, "Many Communities, One Center" and I began thinking why were we not a center that embraced all sexual orientations ... including the "straight" community.

I am also a person of color and Jewish. I sometimes become disappointed when a diversity organization becomes more about "getting my piece of the pie" rather than operating from a philosophy of "everyone getting a piece of the pie." Put another way, I sometimes become disappointed when you recognize inequality and discrimination against your own group and not that inequality and discrimination is equally as disruptive for other groups. However, this is common as a natural response to being oppressed is to oppress another.

A social worker friend tells me that groups progress from Forming to Storming to Norming to Performing and that all groups (e.g. a married couple, a group of employees, a nation) must go through these four stages. None of these stages get to be skipped though the more skilled one becomes at forming groups the more peaceful those transitions can be. Such is useful knowledge. There's going to be some storming so plan for it. Forming happens because we are excited and often overly-excited (but blind to some degree) about what can happen when we get together (e.g. infactuation, what's in it for me?). Storming happens because we had preconceived notions about what was going to be once we got together (e.g. the honeymoon is over). Norming happens when we get honest and come to a consensus (e.g. communication, compromise). And, Performing happens when we then have something to give away (e.g. selflessness, giving). I think a greater Performing would happen when even those communitees that we're trying to distinguish ourselves from are included in our efforts. I look forward to when the more common conversation is "Look at what we learned from the gay community about marriage because they forced us to look at marriage in a different way because they have been forced to view relationships in a different way." I see that as a powerful act of Performing and a sign of self-worth within a community, however, it appears it takes a lot of work, time and patience to get there.

Small issue: Unless they changed the rules, on g.d.o group names are not suppose to have "Drupal" as part of the name, so the g.d.o group title would likely be "Rainbow," "Queer," "Torgue," etc.

My suggestion is "Umbrella," cause umbrella's are cool, though I bet they annoy druplicons.

(Mental image of upset down umbrella with rainbow water splashing out).

I personally like Queer, but it doesn't work for everyone so I'd give it a miss. As for QT (Qte? cute? :P), I've seen others use both of words like that before, so there is president.

However, with identity based terms, there is generally always someone who doesn't identify with them, and so will feel excluded. For example, there's people that have transitioned that do not identify as transgender, (and possible not transsexual, or queer either), so QT would not cover them.

Rainbow seems fairly neutral, so does Spectrum. Rainbow is easier to figure out what it refers to than spectrum, though spectrum has a cooler visually mental image. TORQUE is really quite cool sounding, but non obvious also. Could make a snazzy looking druplicon though (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torc).

I had no idea this was going on until I got a message in my inbox this morning. This is absolutely the most productive, least contentious instance of this conversation I've ever seen on the 'tubes.

Way to go :-)

And my very late zwei pfennigs:

I have absolutely no investment in any particular term. For the record, I am queer (as well as Trans, as well as Cranky, as well as...) so I have no problem with Queer. I also acknowledge both the spirit of consideration that went into LGBTQI, and the problems we always knew it would have.

I also agree with many here that Rainbow is a bit hack - and am not entirely sure that it fully represents the intent. I have always associated the rainbow symbol with a particular segment of the queer tribes, and not with the whole. Maybe that's just a lack of vision on my part.

We could perhaps re-appropriate the broader idea with the related term, Spectrum, which others have also suggested. It's geeky, it's modern, and it carries less baggage.

And I'm fine with TORQUE. Sound symbolism, fun name, even if abstract.

That'd mean 2 weeks for this thread to be open, which should be ample time.

Looks like the choices on the poll should be (filtering on those which got at least a couple of nods of approval from others):

Leave the name as-is

Drupal Rainbow

Drupal Spectrum

Queer Drupal

Drupal-Q

Drupal QTs

Trans & Queer Drupal (it was suggested as "Queer & Trans" but later the poster agreed Trans should come first)

Lamdba Drupal

TORQUE: Trans and Other Radical QUeer Entities

Uh. Something about Trans-G Thunderbot LadyFingers Unicorns ;)

If there are other options people think should be there, please advise. Bear in mind though that the more options available, the less chance that we reach consensus, so we should probably try and stick to options we're serious about voting on.

I'll probably set up a copy of Advanced Poll module on webchick.net (just because it's less of a hassle than getting it installed here), and use the Borda count method, where people pick their top 3 and rank in order of preference. That should help us determine consensus around the name in one shot.

Any objections? Any people with actual experience (as opposed to my "10 minutes of dinking around and reading?" ;)) doing this kind of "fancy" voting who has another suggestion?

Thanks for the bug report. I would dig into this, but I'm planning on porting webchick.net to D7 sometime in the next couple of weeks, so I don't really want to sink time into fixing a D6 theme, and by that time the poll will be closed.

And yes, if you ever want to feel really good about yourself, you can rest assured that no matter how little you know about CSS, you definitely know more than I do. :D

Angie, that does make feel good about myself. I assume that also means I know more about theming. Now, if you could tell me I know more about anything than Dries knows (other than being closer to the ground), I'd be in heaven. ;-)