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BOG #941
Heckler and Koch Club #50
"There are only two ways to live your life.One is as though nothing is a miracle.The other is as though everything is a miracle."
- Albert Einstein -

I've been seriously considering getting PTC's for my Dad and Uncle, but everything seems unsure at the moment (ongoing pa yung Jaworski-Yap issue). Since the heat of the elections are over, our dear madam GMA might suddenly decide to suspend anew all PTC's (like what happened last year), rendering the hard-earned P10T-P12T you forked out wasted. Might be better to get lang muna short-term PTT's and see how it goes. Just my .02 cents.

Originally posted by flyboy 1 I've been seriously considering getting PTC's for my Dad and Uncle, but everything seems unsure at the moment (ongoing pa yung Jaworski-Yap issue). Since the heat of the elections are over, our dear madam GMA might suddenly decide to suspend anew all PTC's (like what happened last year), rendering the hard-earned P10T-P12T you forked out wasted. Might be better to get lang muna short-term PTT's and see how it goes. Just my .02 cents.

good point and lets keep our fingers crossed that other ryan jaworksis never get to hold a firearm again.

Medyo off topic pero tumatama pa rin. I'm reading this book, "Guns, Crimes and Freedom". The book has a lot of arguments why civilians should be allowed to carry their firearms and I'd love to see our Congressmen read it and see that PTCs will be for the benefit of society. In fact, according to the book, concealed carry permits or PTCs (for us Filipinos) is a better crime deterrent as compared to gun bans or any other existing (American) laws.

Bought the book at Books for Less Greenbelt if anyone is interested.

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I was at North Star this afternoon and this person from Crame approached me.He asked me if I wanted to apply for a PTC.I asked him on how much shall it cost to get one.He told me that it would cost 11,000.00 Pesos with Non-Appearance.I told him that I'll think it over.Malamang,I won't get it.

jmy

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Member: BAND Of GLOCKERS(PHILIPPINES)
"I always tell the truth even when I lie."

I think 11K is about average, with some others charging 20K and up for
"non appearance". IIRC, the actual receipted fees run to only 4,150.00
Plug in maybe 3,500 for the paperwork pre-requisites, and then another 2,000 for certain persons at FED, and the balance (in the case of an 11K charge) goes to the outfit/gunshop offering to take care of things.

I believe paying 11k for a PTC and receiving a receipt of only 4k is akin to digging our own grave. These ogres won't stop jacking up the price if majority of us sanctions this exorbitant, and clear-as-crystal corruption-motivated increases.

I'm way past being naive when dealing with the Philippine government. I personally witnessed local government officials pocketing at least fifty percent of the medicine funds allocated to their municipality. I bribe MMDA traffic enforcers so as not to inconvenience me. But sometimes one has to stop and evaluate the present level of slime we're all in and find out how much more we can bear the stink until we throw up. Like everything else around us, it has its limitations. And the breaking point keeps going higher and higher as long as the majority sanctions the system.

This PTC issue is shameful for us Filipino shooters. I feel losing much more than 11k. I feel I'm losing grip on my pride as a Filipino.

Just a thought, gents.

__________________The sword that cuts down evil is the sword that gives life.

Alexii,
I agree in principle,
and in a perfect world, principles count for something.
But I don't know of a country that is free of corruption,
and in this case (PTCFOR's), the peso value of said 'corruption'
may be mis-perceived, to excess:

The whole premise to the offer is 'non-appearance',
so if grease causes unease, then apply via the normal way.
You will pay 4,150 for fees and processing at FED, but you will
wind up paying another 1,000 to 1,500 elsewhere to legally obtain
other paper pre-requisites, plus travel, etc.

Now, let's say you decide to hire a 'runner' to legitimately
wait on PNP-FED to process your application. How much would you pay
a person daily to do this, for a process that might take several
weeks?

In any case, the price tag isn't the issue, if we
couch this PTCFOR transaction in moral terms:

You say you've been willing to pay a traffic enforcer to ignore
your road violations. I've never done that, but I likely will one day.
A law-breaking driver can be as deadly as an unqualifed CCW-er.
Whether one pays PNP-FED or the MMDA to ignore a lack of ability,
or lack of qualification....
the law is violated and the public is placed at increased risk.
It's bad juju, long-term... but the short term alternative may
simply be untenable.

Where does the line lie, between suffering corruption and abetting it?
I don't know where the line lies, save on a day-to-day basis.
Persons of greater affluence and comfort have the luxury of indulging
more principles than I can.

Some have no deadlines to meet, and so can afford the delays involved
when an MMDA traffic cop pulls them over for a violation. Others have
much more to lose from delay than the cost of a bribe, and so pay up.

Perhaps there are those who actually need a PTCFOR.
There are also those who merely want one.
To the latter, sticking to principles with regard to bribery
might be an easier choice to make.

another thing, govt. is thinking of holding a constituent assembly next year (is this the same as a plebiscite?). if that's the case, won't there be another gun ban?

Yup, PTC's need to be renewed after one year.
They will be holding a plebiscite once they finish amending the constitution. Isn't the Barangay elections also slated for next year? If this is so, there will definitely be a gun ban :(

i personally think that for 11,000pesos for a ptc is reasonable. just image that comes out to be less than 1,000 a month for the privilege to carry a fire arm for protection. i wish i knew who the right people to contact so can get my ptc because yung tagalakad ko is asking 14k from me, i'm just waiting til end og august for gma to gety settled sa pwesto before i have my ptc done. sana makahanap me masmura pa....

Originally posted by horge Alexii,
I agree in principle,
and in a perfect world, principles count for something.
But I don't know of a country that is free of corruption,
and in this case (PTCFOR's), the peso value of said 'corruption'
may be mis-perceived, to excess:

The whole premise to the offer is 'non-appearance',
so if grease causes unease, then apply via the normal way.
You will pay 4,150 for fees and processing at FED, but you will
wind up paying another 1,000 to 1,500 elsewhere to legally obtain
other paper pre-requisites, plus travel, etc.

I agree that principles count for something in the perfect world; however, its value and the need for it increases tenfold in an imperfect one.

The whole premise of the PTCFOR is to grant carrying permits to qualified and supposedly level-headed individuals. This non-appearance option is a highway pass for affluent drug junkies who have no business within ten feet of a firearm. The inviolate raison d'etre of the whole program is violated by this option alone. And yes, I have a problem with that.

__________________The sword that cuts down evil is the sword that gives life.

Originally posted by horge Perhaps there are those who actually need a PTCFOR.
There are also those who merely want one.
To the latter, sticking to principles with regard to bribery
might be an easier choice to make.

Those who want one actually perceive they need one.

__________________The sword that cuts down evil is the sword that gives life.