So while other countries deal with gun violence, climate change and child sex trafficking, New Zealand this month has faced no less than two controversies concerning Santa and whether Santa parades can have the jolly Elf portrayed 1) by a Women 2) by another ethnicity (in this case a NZ Maori dressed in a red feather cloak)

People have lost jobs over the debate, Media commentators have had a field day and City Mayors have been forced to apologies to the nation. The fact they are debating a fictional character/marketing gimmick seems to have been overlooked in favour of outrage about tradition and anti-PC-ism.

So oh festive revellers of NSG as we wait for the lolly scramble could you gift me with your opinions - would you be outraged/saddened or confused if your communities local public Santa was non-standard Gender or Ethnicity? Can Santa be portrayed as anything other than a fat old white man?

Cetacea wrote:So while other countries deal with gun violence, climate change and child sex trafficking, New Zealand this month has faced no less than two controversies concerning Santa and whether Santa parades can have the jolly Elf portrayed 1) by a Women 2) by another ethnicity (in this case a NZ Maori dressed in a red feather cloak)

People have lost jobs over the debate, Media commentators have had a field day and City Mayors have been forced to apologies to the nation. The fact they are debating a fictional character/marketing gimmick seems to have been overlooked in favour of outrage about tradition and anti-PC-ism.

So oh festive revellers of NSG as we wait for the lolly scramble could you gift me with your opinions - would you be outraged/saddened or confused should your communities local Santa was non-standard Gender or Ethnicity? Can Santa be portrayed aas anything other than a fat old white man?

Considering how many pagan mythological figures the modern corporate Santa is an awkward mishmash of? Why not?

I think it depends on the depiction and the logic behind it. There's been movies where Santa is a Rorschach for those around him and see him as their respective race/gender and how Santa is not actually any of them specifically.

This strikes me as acceptable and not inconsistent with the lore. There's also white dude depictions, likewise consistent with the lore given the characters history.

If you're depicting Santa as a christmas entity who is not and has not been human but just sort of happened, then depicting them as any race or gender seems fine to me provided it isn't asserted they are in fact that race/gender. (I.E, it's fine to have a santa who looks like a black woman. Because Santa is not a black woman, not a white man, and this is merely how they present themselves to us.).

If you're depicting Santa as Saint Nicholas or S.N who has transformed into a christmas entity, they pretty much should be a white male.

There's also a mishmash of these two by which you can portray Santa as Saint Nicholas who merged with the spirit of christmas, thereby ceasing to be solely a white male and capable of presenting differently, but who tends toward white maleness because it's what he's most used to.

And then we get to The Santa Clause depiction, where Santa is a title that is handed down upon the previous holders death. This interpretation is acceptable to have minorities and women too, but is likely to go over less well because it involves telling children who say "i thought Santa was a white guy" straight up "Santa's dead kid, i'm his understudy."

The worst of them is going "No, ur wrong, Santa was always a black woman."

If minorities or women are depicting Santa, they should roll with the first explanation. This might piss off some tribalists on both sides since it involves specific denial and rejection of "Black Santa" and so on at the same time as rejecting "White Santa.", but is the only means (other than Clause), by which Santa can be portrayed as a minority or woman without straining credulity beyond that which is normally expected for a Santa depiction.

In terms of "representation" however it also provides the most room to maneuver and allows multiple combinations of demographic to be presented throughout the event, and also provides a means for mall santas to explain away the situation in various means AND explain away how all the various white guy Santas look "Different.".

Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?That's alright, neither do they apparently.

Who Santa is such a mishmash of things anyway...That said, the modern interpretation is essentially that of Saint Nicholas with a wee bit of Woden the Wanderer thrown in, plus gift bearing and red suits. I've seen all sorts of stupid interpretations of Santa, including a crucified santa in a Japanese shop window which made me unsure whether to laugh or cry.

I don't disagree with a non-white Santa in principle, but upon seeing these 'offending' Santas in question, I must remark that they aren't all that festive-looking.A woman Santa doesn't really make much sense given we already have Mrs. Claus, although I suppose it's acceptable if she's a particularly jolly woman.But fat? Yes, he must be fat. Let's not get carried away here.

Would you rather want him being portrayed as a Roman Robin Hood, going around slapping heretics at councils?

I mean, I would

A federation of kingdoms, united by the Imperial Throne of StannismarckThe only competent ruler is he who serves his people, honors them like the Saints in heaven, and devotes his life to God alone.-Emperor Janius XIV Chrysostom, Son of Axeres VIIMonarchist, Future Tech, Space Travel

Cetacea wrote:So while other countries deal with gun violence, climate change and child sex trafficking, New Zealand this month has faced no less than two controversies concerning Santa and whether Santa parades can have the jolly Elf portrayed 1) by a Women 2) by another ethnicity (in this case a NZ Maori dressed in a red feather cloak)

People have lost jobs over the debate, Media commentators have had a field day and City Mayors have been forced to apologies to the nation. The fact they are debating a fictional character/marketing gimmick seems to have been overlooked in favour of outrage about tradition and anti-PC-ism.

So oh festive revellers of NSG as we wait for the lolly scramble could you gift me with your opinions - would you be outraged/saddened or confused if your communities local public Santa was non-standard Gender or Ethnicity? Can Santa be portrayed as anything other than a fat old white man?

I honestly don't care. If corporations want to make Santa woke/stunning and brave, that's okay with me because Jesus is the real focus of Christmas and Santa is just a Coca-Cola commercial. [1]

May 30, 1981: Clashes between black and white nationalists have been broken up by Louisiana police. President Dave Treen says that though the protest has been broken up and leaders on both sides have been arrested, there is still an environment of ethnic strife in Louisiana.

Cetacea wrote:So while other countries deal with gun violence, climate change and child sex trafficking, New Zealand this month has faced no less than two controversies concerning Santa and whether Santa parades can have the jolly Elf portrayed 1) by a Women 2) by another ethnicity (in this case a NZ Maori dressed in a red feather cloak)

People have lost jobs over the debate, Media commentators have had a field day and City Mayors have been forced to apologies to the nation. The fact they are debating a fictional character/marketing gimmick seems to have been overlooked in favour of outrage about tradition and anti-PC-ism.

So oh festive revellers of NSG as we wait for the lolly scramble could you gift me with your opinions - would you be outraged/saddened or confused if your communities local public Santa was non-standard Gender or Ethnicity? Can Santa be portrayed as anything other than a fat old white man?

May 30, 1981: Clashes between black and white nationalists have been broken up by Louisiana police. President Dave Treen says that though the protest has been broken up and leaders on both sides have been arrested, there is still an environment of ethnic strife in Louisiana.