also the customer service on public transport is TERRIBLE so i feel justifed bunking a couple of bus journeys (literally, i've only done it a couple of times)
i've been screamed at at a train station for er-iterating a question for absolute confirmation and i've had buses that aren't even full drive right past me.

and the amount of times i've had to wait for late trains/buses just havent come i think it's pefrectly fiar that im compensated by a few few bus rides, especially when most travel is so expensive.

I've seen groups of young boys barge on the buses, go upstairs and nothing is said. Then some teen girls get on with one valid/one invalid pass and the driver goes mad and makes a show of calling them back and kicking them off the bus.

why should those that don't intimidate them pay for these people that willingly dodge fairs and stick two fingers up to the system that allows travel companies to provide their services?

I agree that we should pay for public transport.

Before now I've seen a bus driver kick a woman off the bus because she ran to catch it and another passenger held the door open for her when the driver wanted to go. Then even though she'd used her oyster he refused to drive unless she and the passenger who helped her on the bus got off which they did. Had it been some annoying youths in a pack he'd have kept his mouth shut.

i get pissed off about buying a ticket and it not being checked, that on occasions I will not buy one just incase. There's no excess between Notts and Leics, so it doesn't hurt to buy on the train. Ticket barriers have ruined my fun. This post is fairly pointless.

There are certain times you can get on a South West Train and be positive you won't be asked to produce a ticket. I'm poor so don't buy one on these occassions. I'd never actually refuse to pay if an inspector came along though

You're still using the service being provided for you, just because your ticket hasn't been checked, doesn't mean you're not contributing to the improvement, upkeep and maintenance of the service you have used.

don't buy tram tickets because the routes aren't policed properly. It's pretty expensive and it does feel unfair when you've paid and people haven't then the conductors don't appear once. I noticed last time I was there that they had cracked down on fare dodgers, doing stop checks and issuing ten pound fines for first time offenders.

then use a different form of transport. You have no right to use the service without paying, we don't live in a communist state and you can't even use the government argument anymore as the rail operators are all (with two franchise exceptions) privately-owned businesses.

but (although Crablin could be unique among music industry types) I'd be amazed if he hasn't accepted the odd freebie or guestlist spot that come his way in a context where he isn't directly helping the band or label by attending.

Most people abide by rules only if they know that they are going to be caught and face a reprimand for not doing so.

So although you are completely right in saying people should pay, you shouldn't be overly surprised that they don't, especially considering how easy ineffective management on much public transport has made it to escape paying.

Most people do abide by rules and will do so simply 'cos the rule is in place. (If you don't think this is true imagine how dangerous the roads'd be if the vast majority drivers didn't stop at zebra crossings or get into the right lanes at roundabouts - two examples of acts where people aren't that likely to be caught out and reprimanded).

But you are right that there will be a significant minority of people who will break rules if they believe they can get away with it.

But I'd argue there is a good chance that people who usually stick to rules/laws may not do so with public transport fares, for the simple reason (substantiated by much of the above discussion) that people feel they have the right to fare-dodge, can save money in doing so, are (on some routes at least) unlikely to get caught and will ultimately not face much of a reprimand if they are.

"Bunking a fare" was when one train of mine was delayed, which meant if I ran from it to a different platform, I'd JUST make it in time for my last train home from York.

I, however, only had enough money for a cheap day single, which you cannot purchase on trains.. I explained this to the train-man before boarding, and asked if it would be possible to buy that ticket on the train, which tends to be "frowned upon".. He said yes. Whoo.

Also, when i fell asleep on a bus and ended up 20 miles from where i was meant to be. But that was hardly a conscious decision.

I don't do it anymore cos it's pretty much impossible to do it on Edinburgh buses, but doing it London made me feel good, mainly cos i was quite poor. Also, the bus driver I used to get to my missus' house in Blackheath used to accept my daily train ticket! What a guy.

North West and Midland Express gouge me enough on my occasional visits to distant parts of the coutry for me to justify waltzing past the blokes who can't speak English at Manchester Piccadilly every once in a while.

UK North were probably taken off the road because their drivers had dodgy credentials,there was that accident where a UK North driver knocked a man off some scaffolding on wilmslow road, maybe he had no license.

Then there was the bus war with stagecoach, they were undercutting stage coach prices and both companies flooded the routes, especially popular ones like the 86 to and from Chorlton, with buses. Eventually they were pulled off all routes.

vis a vis guards at Piccadilly, good for them. I remember once rushing to get a train at platform 13 and seeing the guy in front of me being stopped and asked to show a ticket. So I stopped and waited politely by the little ticket dispenser machine. Completely ignored me, even after they finished with the other guy and even after I made repeated polite coughing noises and exaggerated watch gestures. Eventually, goaded by the sound of my train pulling in, I just walked straight past them. Didn't stop me.

than people who constantly feel like the world owes them something. I grew up 10 miles outside of Bristol and was unable to get back to my house from Bristol beyond 11 at night without paying a fortune for a taxi. And bus fares were way, way higher than London.

Tube delays are frustrating and the over-crowding's a pain but anyone who thinks London has a bad transport system really needs a reality check.

When did everyone get so socially responsible? Who is it really going to affect if I bunk the train? Everyone used to bunk the route masters, and they could still afford to replace them with bendy buses. Now everyone does the same on the bendy buses, and I don't see any lying prone and rusting in the street.

The government knows this is going to happen, that's why it covers the (very minimal) shortfall in other areas.

I just don't like it personally. Yeah, sure, place anything in context with other events and it means nothing.

You know: shit, I'm single! Never mind, there's a riot going on in Burma...

But yeah. It annoys me, and always has done. I don't have a particularly strong moral code, I just don't like fare dodgers, people who sit on the back of benches this putting their feet on the 'seating' bit and people who think that charging over £1 for a game of pool is acceptable.

If someone wants to say "I'm not paying because I can't afford to, don't want to and no-one's gonna catch me" that's up to them. But if someone says "I'm not paying because London transports rubbish sometimes and therefore they owe me some free journeys" then that's silly and annoying.

To the point that I bought a bus ticket from the machine on New Year's Eve/Day when travel was free. I always used to buy a ticket to go to play rugby at uni even though everyone else would bunk the fare.

However, recently I was going to play rugby in Overton. We all bought tickets which cost £14 from Wimbledon, but the trains were fucked. A station attendent told us to go a different way to a different station. He gave us a little note to explain what had happened.

We got to the different station, the guy went mental at us, started saying how we were abusing the system for everyone else. Gave us all £20 fines and made us pay for full price returns from Waterloo (apparently he knew we were scammers because we said we came from Wimbledon). When we tried to argue our case he called the British Transport Police over. A £14 journey which we had paid for ended up costing us £60 each.

Since then, whilst I still pay my fares, it is not with the joyful gusto I once emabarked with; the noble cause of contributing to the whole. But with begruding disdain at the jobsworthy cunts we put in charge of important things and drive people to fare didge.

that I will happily not break rules and laws as long as there are systems in to stop me, barriers ticket checkers etc, I think this is quite a british trait, in europe I think they really more on peoples general decency rather than physically stopping people its why english people go mental abroad, the 'because we can' attitude takes over

on the train, that is.
Me being on that train for 15 minutes probably costs very little. I dont break anything whilst i'm there, and the trains are never full so i'm not taking away a paying person's seat.

My conscience = clear

I never go on busses anyway. The underground you pretty much have to pay for.

you say this is a "socio-political/moral issue" which I guess it is. But then you say
you take drugs. Where do you think drugs
come FROM? I'm sure they have a much
more detrimental effect on communities
than people having to pay an extra 20p
on the bus or something.

Is it just a recent phenomenon that if you
are wearing a hoodie and dont appear to know
what a belt it that you get free bus travel?

I've done it occasionally, and I've not really got any excuse. I don't do it anymore though.

Sometimes I'll get a free ride because there'll be no ticket-checkers on the train or at the station. I'm not going to queue for a ticket for 20 minutes because some people can't be arsed doing their job.

Ticket prices are such a fucking joke now. They want people to use more public transport, but they've raised the prices three times this year here!

The bus has one entrance and one exit and all major train stations have guarded ticket barriers.

I don't see why this isn't the case everywhere else.

That said, one thing that really, REALLY hacks me off in this thread is people complaining about the poor quality of public transport, then saying that's why they don't pay to use it. YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE PROBLEM YOU MOAN ABOUT.