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...The triple-plain wire unisons extend much further down the scale. That's why concert grands can get up near 60-70,000 lbs. of tension. But the wire is NOT thicker or heavier for any given note. The opposite is true, sir. In fact, concert grands generally use a lighter wire than an upright or spinet for any given note; because they can use the LENGTH of the piano instead of the WEIGHT of a shorter thicker string.

Well, not really. Maybe comparing a concert grand to a spinet is a bit of a stretch. If you compare the notes within the Steinway instrument family, you will find that large instruments indeed have larger string gauges in the plain wire sections. Even compared to their uprights, the string gauges of the larger grands are on the heavy side.

I have published stringing scales for Kawai and Baldwin grands, and they are similar to Steinway in that regard. Longer pianos may have one or two notes where they are thinner gauge than smaller pianos, but the trend is that longer pianos have the same or larger gauge wire.

I am away at the moment and i am using my phone to check in and post, and the whole process is time consuming and a bit more costly as it uses up my air time. So i am battling to stay in touch and tune with the thread.

Well, not really. Maybe comparing a concert grand to a spinet is a bit of a stretch.-Jurgen

Dear Jurgen,

Apologies! I should have said; "Any given bass note". One of the huge advantages to the sound and power of the concert instruments is the sheer length of the instrument. And I was, of course, purposely using the most extreme example the came quickly to mind. D vs. Winter spinet!

Smiling,I am,Off to tune a Model-4,And a 'B',(Yesterday was the Winter and an Aeolian Chickering),

Now that I take offense too. My statement is not false in my case. I'll kindly ask you not to call me a liar. Personally, I do NOT say OH MY GOD!!! I hate that saying. I always have. It is used far to often. I say; "oh my gosh." Or, Geez, So do many others.

Marc, if you tune electronically, there well be less difference, as the machine will compensate for you. If you tune by ear, you are in for a treat, especially if it's a nice D with lots of overtones. Have confidence, and treat the tuning as if you have tuned 100 of them before. At some point in your career, you will have tuned 100 of them, if you lean towards concert or university work. Don't over-think it. It's just another tuning. You will remember this tuning fondly years from now. You will do just fine.

a 9-ft does have significantly more tension overall. But that is because there are simply more strings in the piano! The triple-plain wire unisons extend much further down the scale. That's why concert grands can get up near 60-70,000 lbs. of tension. But the wire is NOT thicker or heavier for any given note. The opposite is true, sir. In fact, concert grands generally use a lighter wire than an upright or spinet for any given note; because they can use the LENGTH of the piano instead of the WEIGHT of a shorter thicker string. ,

Greetings, I don't think additional tri-chords will require that much more tension, but I have a factory listing of tension in the Steinway pianos and it lists the D as having approx. 45,000 lbs. The D uses a 13 1/2 wire at the top, the S uses a 12 1/2.Regards,

They may be longer but are not necessarily thicker. Bass strings on a 9' piano will always be significantly thinner than on a spinet. String lengths from c-52 up to c-88 on a 9' piano won't be much different from on a 45" upright.

Scaling style is not governed by the length of piano. For example, S&S "D" has a shorter scale (and lower tension) than the Kawai GS 100 scale which is a long scale/high tension scale. Both are 9' pianos, but that model of Kawai has a much higher tension scale.

A couple of comments: That longer pianos almost always have longer and thicker strings is not a conclusion. It is an observation.

There is an additional basic style of stringing scale, one which is very common:

Scale lengths designed with no regard for tensions, with varying tensions across the range of the piano.

In the other recently dredged up topic about scales, you can see my before and after charts of a piano designed with this stringing style, alongside my revised scale for the piano.

Greetings, I don't think additional tri-chords will require that much more tension, but I have a factory listing of tension in the Steinway pianos and it lists the D as having approx. 45,000 lbs. The D uses a 13 1/2 wire at the top, the S uses a 12 1/2.Regards,

If I remember correctly, the D has a top C measuring less than 2". The S top C measures more than 2" or at least significantly more than the D.

Greetings, I don't think additional tri-chords will require that much more tension, but I have a factory listing of tension in the Steinway pianos and it lists the D as having approx. 45,000 lbs. The D uses a 13 1/2 wire at the top, the S uses a 12 1/2.Regards,

If I remember correctly, the D has a top C measuring less than 2". The S top C measures more than 2" or at least significantly more than the D.

Anomalous but interesting.

I am not certain whether those dimensions are correct, because there can easily be sample error in that range of the piano, but even if they are, the longer speaking length would call for a thinner gauge to maintain the same tension.

Greetings, I don't think additional tri-chords will require that much more tension, but I have a factory listing of tension in the Steinway pianos and it lists the D as having approx. 45,000 lbs. The D uses a 13 1/2 wire at the top, the S uses a 12 1/2.Regards,

If I remember correctly, the D has a top C measuring less than 2". The S top C measures more than 2" or at least significantly more than the D.

Anomalous but interesting.

I am not certain whether those dimensions are correct, because there can easily be sample error in that range of the piano, but even if they are, the longer speaking length would call for a thinner gauge to maintain the same tension.

An that's precisely what Ed just got thru sayin'.

This was from a check of 4-5 new NY instruments 15 yrs ago. I have another 4-5 hamburg instruments I can check on the next couple o days.

Now, I see some have offered disagreement to my statement that a Steinway D has a higher tension. Especially in the longer strings.

Before I plod through each and every comment about higher/lower/thicker/thinner

May I ask those who have so quickly commented to find the next Steinway D, B, L, M they find, take measurements and plug these measurements into the Scale sheets everyone seems to have and then come here with the facts.

It is sort of a pain to post the Steinway gauges, but they are printed on the plates next to the tuning pins. They are also in their technical information. I do not have the speaking lengths for most of them, which is crucial, but I do not believe that there are any scales where a shorter piano has thicker plain strings than a longer piano.

As a retired English professor, I would point out that abbreviating a phrase conventionally euphemises it--and thus removes any profanity. Also, while there are several synonyms for the phrase "lose one's virginity" that could qualify for the usage labels "vulgar" or "obscene," there is no coarseness in the phrase itself.

As a retired English professor, I would point out that abbreviating a phrase conventionally euphemises it--and thus removes any profanity. Also, while there are several synonyms for the phrase "lose one's virginity" that could qualify for the usage labels "vulgar" or "obscene," there is no coarseness in the phrase itself.

Greetings, I agree, I was more offended by the use of the phrase "loosing" ones virginity. Though loose people may lose theirs more readily, that still isn't reason enough to misspell it. Virginity means the same thing everywhere you apply it, virgin forests, virgin steel, even those vestal thingees. There is no need for people to get their brain caught in their zipper every time they hear the word. Regards,

The S scale is a bit of an anomaly - the speaking length is 54 mm. The other models are all 49 mm, except for the C and D which are 50 mm.As I understand it, Steinway grands are in low tension scale area, except for the high tension models C and D. The S is a bit of a separate animal; some might say a nice piece of Steinway furniture.

The S scale is a bit of an anomaly - the speaking length is 54 mm. The other models are all 49 mm, except for the C and D which are 50 mm.As I understand it, Steinway grands are in low tension scale area, except for the high tension models C and D. The S is a bit of a separate animal; some might say a nice piece of Steinway furniture.

Thank you Jurgen, any idea about Boesendorfer ?

54 mm in high treble is nice, usually !

_________________________
Professional of the profession.

I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

The S scale is a bit of an anomaly - the speaking length is 54 mm. The other models are all 49 mm, except for the C and D which are 50 mm.As I understand it, Steinway grands are in low tension scale area, except for the high tension models C and D. The S is a bit of a separate animal; some might say a nice piece of Steinway furniture.

I have heard that Jurgen. Interestingly, I rebuilt an S action a year ago with Steinway Parts. With thoughtful voicing, this S is truly a nice instrument.

I am keeping an open mind on this one.

_________________________"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants."Isaac Newton

One can assume that the speaking lengths of longer pianos are not shorter than those of shorter pianos. It is sufficient to know that the speaking length is not longer and the gauge is thicker to know that the tension is higher.

You know, all of this talk about certain words being used including the word "virgin" reminded me of this. And, there is nothing wrong with the terminology in American English.

Did you know that we have Virgin Pine Tree's in Michigan? Yep, we have them! It is called Hartwick Pines which is about 30 miles from my cottage where we have lots of snow and Virgin Pine Trees. They are huge and they are beautiful! Look up Hartwick Pines sometime. I've been there many times. It's a great place to visit.