In my experience, "Go back to WoW" is a response to someone demanding a nerf of a boss/quest/generally making something easier.

Having played WoW (And also Ultima Online for ~8years) since day 1, and experiencing all the nerfs to WoW, I realy love using the expresion on people complaining that something is difficult, you simple tell them to go back to WoW!

Because that's a game where you will recieve epics in the mailbox soon, and legendary drops from Van Cleef. Blizzard has listened TOO much on their whiny customers who can't play the game themselves!

I find it interesting that it's so prevalent on DDO, which is the only MMORPG I've ever played. I think this has a few different causes, and it's not necessarily because the game is "unhealthy" or "struggling" (it isn't, that I've noticed).

1.) a lot of the people who play DDO seem to have some sort of religious belief (religious = faith without proof) that their game is "more complex" than, say, WoW. This is not true, from what I've seen--I'd like to see some of these elitist twats do a feral druid dps build in an elite guild raid on Professor Putricide in WoW. The raids in DDO are LAUGHABLY simplistic compared to WoW. Anyway.

2.) DDO started out as pay-to-play and suddenly became free-to-play. This, predictably, brought in an enormous crowd of amazingly clueless yahoos, and because DDO is NOT SOLO FRIENDLY (there is NOT A SINGLE a quest flagged as "solo" above level 3, I believe) long-time pay-to-play people leveling their sixth alt are almost forcibly brought into contact with said clueless yahoos. Needless to say, they get frustrated. Part of this just means you need to be patient and reasonably kind with newbies, but part of it is exacerbated by the fact that it's impossible to kick people mid-quest and very difficult to get useful info about other players when you're setting up a group. (All you can see is their user-name and class levels, you can't, say, examine them as you can in WoW to see their build and their EQ.) And before you think that "clueless yahoos" bit is out of line, I ran into a newbie who COULD NOT figure out how to EQUIP ITEMS. I finally convinced him that he needed to go back to Runequest because he wanted to auto-follow me (no such option in DDO) and "hated questing" (which is the only way to level/get gear).

3. DDO is NOT LIKE WoW. The quasi-tabletop-esque leveling system is unspeakably bizarre and arcane (not actually more complicated, just way out in left field) to people used to playing most other MMORPG's. And people genuinely do come over from WoW, realize that the game is nothing like they expect, and start pissing and moaning about it.

KillerRabbit:Because that's a game where you will recieve epics in the mailbox soon, and legendary drops from Van Cleef. Blizzard has listened TOO much on their whiny customers who can't play the game themselves!

Wotlk raiding was joke!

That logic makes perfect sense. Obviously if WoW is easier than you'd like then it's impossible any other game could have content that's stupidly hard for no reason and would benefit from being made a bit easier. No, really, I completely agree. Your argument does not at all sound like someone saying, "If you don't like being robbed then get out of our city!" I mean it would be totally unreasonable for someone to hope that some more effective law enforcement might take place to prevent those robberies that define the very character of your city - obviously they should just get the hell out rather than try to improve the neighborhood. Definitely the more sensible course of action to demand that they leave for even suggesting such a ludicrous idea.

Apologies if this was already mentioned, but you forget to say that the term is often used when the thread is about making the game more like WoW. Which you get ALOT. It can be used out of context and not appropriately, but in general it's used as an insult to the theme park MMO's when one of the bazillion players suggests "let me keep my stuff if I die!" or "will i be able to max my character in a month?".

the reason that there is such a stigma tied to world of warcraft is because it is by far the most casual of all MMOs. that is not to say that you cannot be 'hardcore' (or whatever the opposite of casual may be), there are just tools set in place for you not to be just that.

personally i don't think there's anything worthwhile in world of warcraft; to me it is a testament how a game can become an excellent product, while at the same time being an awfully mediocre game (based on game elements and mechanics in comparison with other MMOs before and after the original release of world of warcraft in 2004).

WoW, casuals, bads, whatever else aside, this specific request I can never hold against anyone given my first MMO was Everquest just a couple of months after release.

Did you ever experience the fun of a long-distance corpse run in EQ due to having forgotten to rebind after changing continents?

How about trying to retrieve your corpse from one of the Planes in Downtown Badville?

No? That's not surprising, because it was not fun. It was terrible.

Oh, yeah, and if you couldn't do it within a period of time (fairly generous - something like 48 hours from death, I think), your corpse disappeared. With everything it had on it. All your gear, all your inventory, all your cash-in-pocket: poof! Gone now. Bye epics. Buh-bye. No backsies. So you couldn't just get frustrated and give up on it for too long, or you'd REALLY be giving up on it.

Maybe WoW has gone too far to the casual side of things now, I don't know, I'm not one to quibble about things like that for long. I can say that when I first started playing WoW (just before BC release) the tremendous number of user-friendly features compared to EQ's system was immediately apparent and welcome. I don't mind hard games - I like a good challenge. It's why I like to test the limits of what I can solo in MMO's: raiding is all well and good, but not really my cup of tea; soloing a raid instance, on the other hand, is a blast if I can pull it off. I do, however, mind games that are difficult in that they are actually hard to play due to UI problems, user-unfriendly design choices (Hey, you died! Now you lose the experience you just spent the last 7 hours grinding up. Way to completely waste a day's work!), graphical/geographical glitches (falling through the world isn't funny the first time, much less any time after the first), and so on.

I went off on a tangent. Point being, I never fault someone for wanting to avoid corpse-runs of the naked gear's-on-your-body variety. If someone's complaining about a ghost run or some other trivial penalty for dying, screw that, but if you just want to not lose your stuff when you die, I can sympathize with that.

Hah, if I was more creative I'd add my own made up insult here. But I just wanted to say I found that funny (though maybe not as good as boatfags)

anyway on topic, I don't play MMOs but I've heard of this syndrome from a friend who dose. It feels elitist to me, kind of the "It's popular now it sucks mentality". Like some pretentious Indy rock snobs who look down there noses at every one else because they listen to some obscure band and you don't.

Also you should have put WoW on the list of MMO forums. It's a big community so it has to have been said a few times.

Mr. Mike:I won't go back to WoW, I like to be able to play my games forever when I buy them. And yes Shamus I know it's cheaper to play WoW (or was it Funk that did an article on it?), but I prefer to diversify in regards to the types of games I play and the unique experiences that come with them.

The only reason people are so elitist against WoW is because they want to be seen as "cool". They consider themselves "above WoW". They're sheep that call us WoW players sheep. They're "non-conformist" conformists.

KillerRabbit:In my experience, "Go back to WoW" is a response to someone demanding a nerf of a boss/quest/generally making something easier.

Having played WoW (And also Ultima Online for ~8years) since day 1, and experiencing all the nerfs to WoW, I realy love using the expresion on people complaining that something is difficult, you simple tell them to go back to WoW!

Because that's a game where you will recieve epics in the mailbox soon, and legendary drops from Van Cleef. Blizzard has listened TOO much on their whiny customers who can't play the game themselves!

Wotlk raiding was joke!

Bloody hell, you should see the WoW Suggestion forums. Whenever I venture on there, I'll usually see a number of people requesting that emblems be made Bind To Account. That's just incredibly lazy.

Blizzard posters always counter-act with, "Yeah, NO. We feel that if you want to gear up and work on a character, then you should put in the time with that character, not just stay on your main the entire time farming emblems to gear up your alts."

And I agree with them. Making emblems BoA pretty much makes the game even easier for the lazy players. So Blizzard is doing something right. :P

You forgot the Star Wars: The Old Republic forum. In fact, you could probably find examples of nigh any complaint you could have with a forum, let alone an MMO forum, by checking out the history of that site (the Off-Topic Discussions in particular), and possibly even the present day but I haven't been there in awhile.

The gaming community as a whole is full of individuals that will throw around all sorts of insults like "Go back to X" or "You're a(n) Y", mainly due to the anonymity of the internet. That's why you won't see it so easily in real life entertainment. Sure there's a few sports that enjoy the same level of stupidity; but overall... it's far less than in the gaming community.

To be honest... I hope they continue to act like idiots, so it'll all blow up in there face sooner or later (As they won't learn or change). Till that time comes, I'll just sit here a play me some Portal whilst waiting for that to happen.

Oh my God... so many times I have wanted to punch someone for telling someone else to 'go back to WoW'. I've only played the game once myself, but the utter hypocrisy and tiny-mindedness conveyed in those few words make me so, so angry. GGGRRRR!

Great subject for an article, thanks for putting these fools in their place.

All development studios have a motovational poster in the office. It has a guy's head exploding and underneath is written - "Fanboys: Listen to them at your own risk".

No games developers check their games' online forums, it fills them full of depression and anger, which you can get just as readily from CNN.

Games developers used to be able to make great, nay, LEGENDARY games, without any "input" from the fanboys and gamers in general (in those dark days before the internet). What makes you think they should change their strategy now?

Mr. Mike:I won't go back to WoW, I like to be able to play my games forever when I buy them. And yes Shamus I know it's cheaper to play WoW (or was it Funk that did an article on it?), but I prefer to diversify in regards to the types of games I play and the unique experiences that come with them.

Perhaps you should try reading the article instead of responding to the title.

Perhaps I did read the article, but this is just the thoughts I had on it all so I expressed that. If you want me to address the topic more, I shall.

The whole notion of WoW being that standard for noobs (like how people view COD or Halo) is preposterous. Sure, they might not be my cup of tea, but I appreciate the fact they are very easy to pick up and play and allow the player to get a sense of satisfaction quickly and feel comfortable with the game. Make a game TOO miche or hardcore and only the most dedicated of fans will stick with it to learn its intricacies. Games like WoW are very polished, and if nothing else, act as a very good starting point for a player to take their first steps into the genre of the game. Go back to WoW... sometimes it's good to go back to a genre's roots, no?

The Aion number is way off because no one posts on the official forums, try doing a search of Aionsource instead, I promise you results substantially more than 15.

On the Age of Conan numbers, that mainly comes from people who buy the game, pick a melee class, and then come to the forums to whine about the lack of "auto attack" and to complain about being forced to use directional attack to complete combos. That and when you quote it will cause Google to see the result again everytime it is quoted, and people on the Age of Conan boards LOVE to quote.

Of course, the people who have been playing AoC from the start know about the problems and issues, even the most diehard AoC fanboy jumps all over Funcom everytime they screw something up, so we really don't need someone fresh thru the door saying how much better WoW is, or how much more content WoW has, or how WoW's endgame is so much deeper...... of course it is, the game has been out for 5 years and seen 3 xpacs. Of course it has more content...... and then...... Go back to WoW is uttered.

theklng:the reason that there is such a stigma tied to world of warcraft is because it is by far the most casual of all MMOs. that is not to say that you cannot be 'hardcore' (or whatever the opposite of casual may be), there are just tools set in place for you not to be just that.

personally i don't think there's anything worthwhile in world of warcraft; to me it is a testament how a game can become an excellent product, while at the same time being an awfully mediocre game (based on game elements and mechanics in comparison with other MMOs before and after the original release of world of warcraft in 2004).

Maybe the new one should be "Go back to Farmville"... that's even more casual-friendly than WoW (not to mention being an awfully mediocre game).

On a side note. Every time a play an MMO after my 12 months on WoW i ALWAYS feel ike going back to playing WoW. I don't want to sound like a fanboy (havn't played WoW in about 2 years) but from every single non WoW experience of MMOs i have has WoW has been vastly superiour, more excessible and better integrated.

I also feel that WoW has a really strong community, so much more so than any other big MMO i have ever played (or even smaller ones, im looking at you runescape!)

Gaming is full of fanboys. Are other hobbies like this? Do skiers and snow boarders hate each other with the same fervor as Xbox and PS3 fans? Do people that fish using waders call the other fishermen "boatfags"? I'm having a hard time picturing it. Perhaps our hobby is just less tolerant of diversity in personal tastes. Maybe it's just a side effect of the hobby being so entwined with the internet, which seems to cultivate this sort of behavior. In either case, it does the hobby no credit.

It might come off as a surprise to you, but people have done far worse for less trivial matters, like stabbing each other over what part of town they are from, what kind of music they are listening to or which sports clubs they endorse.

Overall, I'd call "gaming" a rather tranquil hobby, maybe it also has to do with people not being able to punch or stab each other over the Internet yet though xD

On the matter of WoW, I played that game... got to max. level back in the day and got over it long before the Beta was even over.

theklng:the reason that there is such a stigma tied to world of warcraft is because it is by far the most casual of all MMOs. that is not to say that you cannot be 'hardcore' (or whatever the opposite of casual may be), there are just tools set in place for you not to be just that.

personally i don't think there's anything worthwhile in world of warcraft; to me it is a testament how a game can become an excellent product, while at the same time being an awfully mediocre game (based on game elements and mechanics in comparison with other MMOs before and after the original release of world of warcraft in 2004).

Maybe the new one should be "Go back to Farmville"... that's even more casual-friendly than WoW (not to mention being an awfully mediocre game).

farmville is not in the same genre and will by most not even be considered a 'real' game. not to mention it is much less known than world of warcraft.

Shamus Young: Are other hobbies like this? Do skiers and snow boarders hate each other with the same fervor as Xbox and PS3 fans? Do people that fish using waders call the other fishermen "boatfags"? I'm having a hard time picturing it.

Have you ever been to a football match Shamus? REALLY big on fanboys there. Or if you criticise Eastenders/Dallas/Neighbours.

Galenor:I saw a lot of that in EVE Online forums. This is probably because the game is renown to being deep and complex, and EVEites see WoW as a shallow play. As soon as someone doesn't like the confusing UI, the complex upgrades and armor types, or the cruel wastelands of lawless space, well...what? You expect us to make our game more accessible? Screw that. To WoW, you luddite!

Theres a problem with demanding accessibility. Very few people know the difference between accessibility and familiarity. Explaining the difference is akin to explaining the difference between gold and pyrite to a six year old. Creating accessible, yet unique systems is hard. So in most cases developers will simply clone a popular preexisting system, then call it "accessible." Thus most who demand "accessibility" aren't demanding well written tutorials and "easy to learn, hard to master" game design, they're demanding a new skin on what they've grown accustomed to.

Not even mentioning the people who confuse "accessible" with "piss easy."

The people who play EVE only to give up after a week (or more) are the ones who instantly begin grinding "gear" like they're playing world of warcraft, in space. They give up once they learn how long it'll take to grind anything, how long it'll take to learn skills, and/or how dangerous it is to actually go anywhere. If EVE was altered to accommodate these people the game itself would become something completely different. Maybe it would be more familiar, but it would lose what sets it apart from wow.

So, yea, "go back to wow" is more often than not, a very valid shorthand counter-argument. Anyone who thinks EVE should be less demanding and more forgiving should go back to wow. CCP is attempting to create a MMO simulation, rather than the MMO wankfest wow has been for a few years.

Interesting article, but the "go back to wow"-symptom theory is flawed. EVE Online's forums have 15800 for that phrase on google, and it is certainly not said because the game is flawed, but because EVE really is a completely different kind of game than wow, and people expecting anything similar will get flamed on the forums.Cases such as those mentioned in the article do exist of course, but they are not the majority of such occurrences.

Sonic Doctor:Some people play the game for story, but they can't complete it because the game forces them to interact with other players.

Kinda defeats the entire point of the genre doesn't it? That's like playing first person shooters but not actually attacking anything because you're a pacifist.

They do make RPGs that involve 0 interaction with other players yanno.

The problem is is that when a game is super popular a lot of players will go and try something else and bitch when it's not similar to their favorite game. I.e. Cod 4 morons going to play Bad Company 2 and then whining about all the stuff that isn't like COD, or WoW players expecting Eve Online to lead them along a very set and narrow path just because they're incapable of thinking outside the box.

Some criticisms are valid, but often times they're not. It's important to be able to separate the few good points from the retarded ramblings of the masses.

The people who play EVE only to give up after a week (or more) are the ones who instantly begin grinding "gear" like they're playing world of warcraft, in space. They give up once they learn how long it'll take to grind anything, how long it'll take to learn skills, and/or how dangerous it is to actually go anywhere. If EVE was altered to accommodate these people the game itself would become something completely different. Maybe it would be more familiar, but it would lose what sets it apart from wow.

Exactly, back when I did play Eve, I made my few few million by scamming other players rather than just grinding. All the WoWtards that I tried to get to play with me though just couldn't figure out what to do though because their wasn't a magic carrot on a stick to guide them through the game.