Why, oh, why are we still pursuing Zune and online subscriptions. The subscription music business is proven failure as a business model Yet, our leadership continues to plow resources into that pit.

I am excited by the upcoming layoffs, we need to cull the herd. Too many folks want to do only the minimum to get by.

HR and Marketing are great examples. Everyone there is a Director or Senior Director. Check into there org and note they typically have one direct report - a vendor, who is the one that actually does the work.

Mini, while it might be easy to draw a separation between the groups that built the commons (windows, office) and the groups that got the commons (windowsmobile...) the distinction is not that clear.A fairly significant part of the engineering issue hounding windowsmobile is due to Robbie's groups hiring the same "successful" stars from these large orgs to build a light fast mobile operating system. You certainly know how overengineered winmo has become, and how much of it is due to folks porting over desktop philosophy to mobile.

Oddly enough XBox is the only thing of Microsoft's somewhat holding its own against the competition in your list of items above... :) I don’t believe it’s doing great but it’s not losing market share like a sieve like IE is for instance.

As for more cost cutting possibilities, how about a dip in our quarterly dividend? It'll save a few hundred million each quarter.

Hmm 360 is doing ok, but I'm worried that the price cut has eaten away too much there (our per console cost is probably still pretty high). I do agree that the leadership in that division is unfortunate... but I'm not sure XBox deserves so much hate mini. Should they have only blown through 4billion instead of 8? Probably. That said, I'm not willing to throw out the community and business that has surfaced around the 360 because of that just yet.

Does the dividend truly matter that much comment #7? Who out there still has enough shares for it to really help you get to sleep each night? Is having that dividend vs. saving hundreds of millions of revenue each quarter worth the risk that 'wallstreet' would rather have the cost cut?

Indeed. Let's pretend that only 4billion wasn't wasted -- oh heck, let's pretend all 8billion wasn't "wasted" over the course of, what, 9 years since XBox has been around.

1) Do you think MSFT having an additional 8billion in funds somewhere would even make one of the analysts's blink?2) Do you think the 'street even remembers what happened last quarter let alone money that would have melted between the seams over the course of a decade?3) That extra money would have just been squandered away making the company bigger anyhow :) My goodness, what if that 8billion was used as a further bump in the Yahoo deal...

My goodness XBox has been a blessing :) At least one of our products has a semi-cult following with the yonger generation and at least one of our products has brought smiles to families faces after dinnertime (disregard the RROD though)

Well that's good to hear. While my previous post was snarky, I truly do not want my friends and former coworkers to be running around like chickens with heads cutoff. Some blurbs on the earnings made it sound like 5,000 were going down today.

Best of luck, seems the street is pleased with the silver linings in the earnings report!

Back when I was working for MS my family _loved_ the annual picnic. I understand that the typical Bellevue yuppie who is destined to die sad and alone might not care, but it was something nice for the families, and given the amount of crap they put up with indirectly they deserved it. Actually for a few years I worked in a group that had its own yearly picnic (in addition to the company-wide one). Given the size of the company maybe that's the solution. Each group should organize something that includes and involves spouses and kids.

"I understand that the typical Bellevue yuppie who is destined to die sad and alone might not care, but it was something nice for the families, and given the amount of crap they put up with indirectly they deserved it."I understand that the typical breeding style of the Microsoft stay-at-home-Mom-with-a-litter-of-4 favors things like the company picnic, but those of us who wish you'd all get vasectomies and stop spewing your zygotes all over the planet don't give a shit about the stupid picnic.

When a company becomes famous then people dont care about whether its good or not its just name. even if google hits every employee with a stick every day, there will be thousands who want to join .. we are humans and totally crazy and sometimes brainless.

Cutting picnic doesn't make sense ..Cutting the picnic makes sense. It's a waste of resources. They should've done that a long time ago. Want a picnic ? Go to your favourite grocery store, buy some bread, ham cheese, sodas and go to the nearest park. You will enjoy it more than being surrounded by thousands of self-righteous individuals. I went to one and that was the first and last one. It was annoying.

I have no kids and I thought the over 21 area at last year's picnic was fun. I'm sad that its cancelled. The email about it was oddly worded, though - we're cutting the picnic because only Puget Sound could participate, but while we're at it, we're cutting the similar events in all other locations too!

Meanwhile nobody is discussing the quarterly results. I find it amazing that despite the first ever yoy drop in revenue stock was still up.after hours and the next day. Apparently analysts were expecting worse. Good job MSFT, you've now become the retarded stepchild of the high tech industry. The expectations are so low that if. Somebody can find one area where you didn't competely fuck up everybody cheers. Look, he spelled his name right, the stock is a buy!

I understand that the typical breeding style of the Microsoft stay-at-home-Mom-with-a-litter-of-4 favors things like the company picnic, but those of us who wish you'd all get vasectomies and stop spewing your zygotes all over the planet don't give a shit about the stupid picnic.This is the shit that MS has brought the region, smug bastards that can't drive and think they're gods gift to the universe. The picnic was fun for those that can have a good time without getting plowed or high. For the love of all things holy go get laid and get over your anger issues. Stay off 520 too please, I'm tired of trying to avoid you little pricks when you change lanes without signaling or just move for the hell of it.

According to a press release, the bill would “reform the H-1B and L-1guest-worker programs to prevent abuse and fraud and to protect American workers.”

The Durbin-Grassley bill would mend the H-1B visa program, not end it, making reasonable reforms while not reducing the number of H-1B visas that are available.

Congress intended H-1B visas to benefit the American economy by allowing U.S. employers to import high-skilled and specialized guest-workers when no qualified American workers are available. While initially successful, loopholes in the program have allowed foreign guest-workers to displace qualified American workers.

Specifically, the bill would:

Require all employers who want to hire an H-1B guest-worker to first make a good-faith attempt to recruit a qualified American worker.

Employers would be prohibited from using H-1B visa holders to displace qualified American workers.

Prohibit the blatantly discriminatory practice of “H-1B only” ads and prohibit employers from hiring additional H-1B and L-1 guest-workers if more than 50% of their employees are H-1B and L-1 visa holders.

To address fraud, the measure “would give the government more authority to conduct employer investigations and streamline the investigative process.” That includes the following:

Permit DOL (Department of Labor) to initiate investigations without a complaint and without the Labor Secretary’s personal authorization;

Authorize DOL to review H-1B applications for fraud;

Allow DOL to conduct random audits of any company that uses the H-1B program;

Require DOL to conduct annual audits of companies who employ large numbers of H-1B workers.

Finally, the legislation would “institute a number of reforms to the L-1 visa program, including establishing for the first time a process to investigate, audit and penalize L-1visa abuses.”

The L-1 visa program allows companies to transfer certain employees from their foreign facilities to their U.S. offices for up to seven years.

Experts have concluded that some employers use the L-1 program to evade restrictions on the H-1B program because the L-1 program does not have an annual cap and does not include even the minimal labor protections of the H-1B program.

The current economic / job-loss situation will no doubt provide a boost toward efforts aimed at getting this bill passed.

Uh, you guys do realize that the really bad drivers in Puget Sound are the ones in the Subarus who grew up here, right? Well, and those who are just learning to drive that are new to their job in America and taking driving lessons this weekend.

"Cancelling the picnic is fine - are you so Redmond centric you don't realize that most employees work outside the Puget Sound?"Yeah, but most of the shit we make is made in Redmond, so Redmond is king.

They're not Bellevue yuppies, they all live in Seattle in Belltown and Cap. Hill and will..

I can see why they cancelled it - when it went to 2 weekends that was it. I was so happy when they started actually enforcing the hard guest limit. You used to see folks bring in their regular and extended family as well as their kids' friends. I got to see such parties turned away one year!

And why o why do the hugh revenue sucks like E&D get the cool awesome campus?

I would love to see the co meeting cut - talk about a painful snooze fest - I really can't stand another demo of SQL Data Cube or Dynamics. The smart folks take the free day off.

DavidV will retire soon. Stop beating the dead horse. Nobody was there publicly beating him when Microsoft pursued his dumb idea of buying Great Plain then Navision. And what is the only "business framework" still being developed at Microsoft? The one from the small Axapta company that Navision acquired just before being taken by Microsoft. Summary: Microsoft acquired 2 large companies full of incompetent employees, all to get a framework developed by a small foreign company. Don’t even start with this excuse of “acquiring customers”. Nobody “acquires customers”, and the only remaining customers still using MBS products are probably going bankrupt right. Their more agile competitors are probably making a profit, and migrated to more flexible and yet more robust ERP systems long ago.

Regarding Ray Ozzie, I had the opinion that he was doing nothing also, until having a recent experience meeting him during the Demo Days, which were previously performed for Bill Gates. The only difference: BillG would say some exaggerations one way or another, and people would leave the demos bragging that he “loved” or “hated” their demos. However, there was little follow-up on sentences by BillG like “You should talk with Group/Person/etc.”. Meanwhile, Ray Ozzie is far less dramatic, but there is follow-up, and probably there should be even more follow-up in the future. Ray is definitely working to avoid or at least minimize Microsoft’s culture of duplicated efforts, internal competition and little focus on the customers. But that is not appreciated at Microsoft: what is appreciated is the “drama queen” behavior of making a small problem big, and then resolving it and announcing that as if you just saved the universe.

Compare what is happening within the organizations led by Ray Ozzie and the PSU (Parallel Search Universe) within Microsoft. In the PSU you have several teams doing the same thing, competing for resources, and for who has the most inflated levels. You need to be at partner level nowadays to be lead in PSU, and that org is full of ICs at the “Principal” level. Level by level, proportionally PSU is costlier than Windows, and let’s not even go into the return on investment calculations. The solution for PSU is simple: everyone with more than 2 years in PSU should be fired. That is two review cycles in which you either contributed for the culture of incompetence or did nothing to stop it, even it that was just leaving and let the many GMs (General Morons) there discover that sitting in offsite workshops won’t beat Google. What is the hope for all those 2000 morons when the company announce that it will now deliver billions to Yahoo in hope that a partnership with another incompetent company will increase Microsoft’s share of the Internet traffic?

"Compare what is happening within the organizations led by Ray Ozzie and the PSU (Parallel Search Universe) within Microsoft. In the PSU you have several teams doing the same thing, competing for resources, and for who has the most inflated levels. You need to be at partner level nowadays to be lead in PSU, and that org is full of ICs at the “Principal” level."OK, so you've said what PSU has done, but you haven't said a thing that Ozzie has done.

WHAT HAS THE MAN DONE? And don't give me any kind of Azure of Silverlight bullshit, that crap hasn't made us a penny.

According to your comment, the best thing Ozzie has done is "follow up". Uhhh... wow. He's been here for *years* now. Years. Motherfucking years! HOW IS HE GETTING US PAID?

+1 on cancelling the company meeting. Now _that_ is a ridiculous waste of money. What is the business justification for paying to have Dwight Schrute tell bad jokes and have SteveB running around acting like he's some sort of rock star knocking over women in the audience and drinking bottles of honey on stage? For half the company its really just a day off work. And, hey, isn't that something only Puget Sound attends??

i stopped taking my family to the company picnic when my wife told me that she used the facilities after Lisa Brummel and was horrified to see the toilet seat was left up! i agree with the OP: lisab pees standing up!

Solutions Delivery in I.T., is expecting an E-mail from Steve Tuesday the 5th @ 6:00 AM and then the "trickle down" will start. Everyone over here in 109 is talking about it, hang on to your toes!If true, finally someone is doing the right thing. This particular group within IT is full of Principal level do-nothings who were hired during the tenure of disgraced former CIO Stuart Scott.

Let's hope the cuts take place within the right places, and not people who actually do work.

wow, people have complained about Solutions Delivery on here before. I wonder if high-ups are following up on minimsft commnets? Let's help 'em out; where else can they find some expensive cruft doing nothing in high concentrations?

Cut Zune!! That thing is a money pit. Sure you are offering competition but at what cost to the company and the companies bottom line? All that is doing is throwing money away. throw money away when the economy improves. In the meantime, shelf it. As Steve Ballmer says, you're not a hardware company, you're a software company.

Solution Delivery in IT has the most incompetent people in the world.I heard that several people in this organization have been promoted beyond their capabilities or outside their area of competence to principal/director levels.

"Solution Delivery in IT has the most incompetent people in the world.I heard that several people in this organization have been promoted beyond their capabilities or outside their area of competence to principal/director levels."LOL -- promoting people beyond their capabilities and/or area of competence is the foundation of American business and god knows it applies to at least 50% of Microsoft leadership.

Rxd IT Bully Nagendar Vedula empire had the maximum more than 20 people cut

Mastercrook Moorthy's disciple Mehar Zafroz also got the axe with 20 people

Sreenivas AIT & Ramkumar ExD got cut by 10 people each

totally the count is around 50 for MS IT India in 1 week, still 400-500 people are expected to get cut in another 2 weeks before steve ballmer come here for giving balls at Tech Ed India

pathetic thing is, NO NOTICE.

people are asked to quit immediately . not even allowed to go back to desk after given information. managers were made FYI jokers who had no role.

GMs were asked to sign NDA so that they were not able to disclose this even to their confidants well in advance.

HR and Security played worst role.HR escorted everyone to door. Couple of girls literally cried due to their family situations and their dependency on jobs.

Across MS IT India, everyone is talking about the decency level, management & HR could have adapted during this exercise.

we all are confident that pregnant wife of one employee who got laid off is going to get shocked and curse Bill Gates and all his crap leaders for giving a WRONG opportunity to WRONG guys to run the organization here.

LEADERS are just following 'SAVE YOUR OWN A$$' policy. NONE IS READY TO DISCUSS.

PROBABLY THEY FORGOT ABOUT THE CULTURAL IMPACT THESE KIND OF ISSUES CAN CREATE IN INDIAN CULTURE( SHOWING OFF DOOR WITHOUT NOTICE TIME) MANDATE

WHAT INDIAN GOVERNMENT IS DOING FOR THIS ABRUBTLY LAID OFF EMPLOYEES ?

SOMEONE HAVE POLITICAL, PRESS CONNECTIONS, CAN YOU TAKE THIS TO THE NOTICE OF APPROPRIATE LABOUR DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS AND OTHER POLICITICAL PARTIES ?????

Moorthy - you're the culprit behind all these faults

None of the laid off employee's family will forgive Tony Scott, Kevin Turner also for not running the lay off show properly here

How much cost MS IT saved by letting people go on same day ?

No single employee will be accountable, loyal after this

All the old employees who are high performers and reputed for their knowledge depth are also planning to go.

Both Nagender and Sreenivas is Moorthy sincere sishya disciples. Moorthy paid back his thanks by offering GM position to Sreenivas for all the dinner he offered during his redmond trips. Nagendara, the fatty man got kicked out of IDC, not even prinicipal over there. Sucked Moorthy and got GM finally for that.

Only Ram pichai is meritorious among the current leaders. Sack Meher, Nagendra & Sreenivas, place all organizations under Ram only.

Any Idea on what was the criteria for the recent layoffs in MSIT India ? Was that purely for underperforming ones or other? Also, what would be the criteria for upcoming layoffs ? High salary? Resource utilization, or Manager affinity ?

Hey dude, what do you think was happening for all those years in the US as American companies were laying off to open brand new offices in India? The same thing you're now witnessing: HR and security heartlessly escorting employees outside at a moment's notice.

Your colleague's pregnant wife will learn to get over it, just as countless American wives did before her.

"Your colleague's pregnant wife will learn to get over it, just as countless American wives did before her."

I wonder whether the OP realizes that there were Americans with pregnant wives who got fucked over in January.

"Still my question is unanswered. Is it purely of performance or something else? and if so, what is the criteria for selecting people for layoff? and why always it is ICs who ACTUALLY work ?"

It is NOT purely performance. I know of several 20 percent bucketers, patent-holders and award-winners who were shown the door, in addition to plenty of 70s and a few 10s. There were some absolutely dreadful 10 percenters still standing after round one.

It appears to be a combination of factors: some performance, some whole teams, some people that managers were glad to cut loose. What the layoffs don't appear to involve are many managers. In other words, if you're not a manager, there's not much you can do except hope for good fortune.

"Hey dude, what do you think was happening for all those years in the US as American companies were laying off to open brand new offices in India? The same thing you're now witnessing: HR and security heartlessly escorting employees outside at a moment's notice."

LOL @ "heartlessly".

What I want to know is how long you lived under the delusion that business should have a heart?

Executives make roughly 100 to 10000 times more than you ever will, and they don't give a flying fuck about your life or the lives of pregnant stepford wives.

Frankly I think more of you should stop breeding your heifers so hard -- you'd be better prepared for hard times with less mouths to feed.

Rumour mill is working overtime... one of the post claimed 10 people under Meher i.e. BGCOE... my sources suggest it was not more than 3!!... anyways that does not take credit out of her incompetence... she and her fav directs seems to have no credibility on the floor... Tony and his directs should understand that if any leader does not have even 10% people repecting means they are not worth... trusting MS Poll in this environment is useless... people are scared and they know that last year result had no impact on Managers...

Coming back to most vibrant topic of lay-off... no one is sure what will happen... it is all rumour but nevertheless it seems inevitable... question is whether Indian side will be fair with serverence to upheld MS credibility in market or will play the cheap trick!!... Redmond seems was fair with last 1400...

Well corporate policy is very dicey... they are targeting people who are adding value to MS and then there are managers with double the salary who have no role or impact are happily moving around... specially those M2s who are lobbying hard to remove people in the name of cleansing...!!

IDC, my condolences on your unexpected job terminations. You are certainly correct in the loss of dignity. We understand that all too well.My understanding is that strategic hiring will continue in China, per a well-placed GM. Perhaps you should hop over the Himalayas and check that out.People were re-purposed in the US for your positions to be originally created. It may be more convenient for you to find work in China than it was for people here to find replacement work.

Not to further the rumor mill, but there are alot of folks suddently getting 1 on 1's scheduled for Tuesday May 5th. I have heard from 2 that they are not meeting with their own manager, but their mangers's manager. So, good luck to everyone, but if you get a 1 on 1 scheduled on that day, you can expect the worst and hope for the best.

Well corporate policy is very dicey... they are targeting people who are adding value to MS and then there are managers with double the salary who have no role or impact are happily moving around... specially those M2s who are lobbying hard to remove people in the name of cleansing...!!Termination of employees will be like the vista release management process. Decisions will be made on a whim without justification.

It is NOT purely performance. I know of several 20 percent bucketers, patent-holders and award-winners who were shown the door, in addition to plenty of 70s and a few 10s. There were some absolutely dreadful 10 percenters still standing after round one.To the patent-holders, award-winners and top performers: good luck with your future endeavors.

"What I want to know is how long you lived under the delusion that business should have a heart?"

What do you think happens to those companies that don't? They get eaten from the inside out? Employees steal, embezzle, sell company secrets, blackmail, delete files upon leaving or at the very least, don't document code and don't tell you where anything is or how anything works.

You rely on employees good will every day and they rely upon yours. Even after you 'let them go', that good will needs to be maintained to avoid additional hassles.

I've seen dotcoms fail because they thought they could be heartless and employees turned on the company. Maybe that's just here in America where we have a sense of individualism and aren't afraid to stab our employers in the back as we know they will stab us in ours.

Boohoo IDC, a bunch of mediocre performers are getting laid off...how do you think you got the jobs? Americans were laid off, so not a single tear for HyberabadAll i can say is that you are a racist. How did you think americans own microsoft jobs ? If the world starts using linux you will be in deep shit. If you think only you can be employed why are you selling outside america, keep your shit in your own place, and stop the crap of spreading the fact that you lost jobs due to outside world. you are having jobs because most people are buying OS outside america too. If China Japan and India and others stop buying microsoft products, will more americans get jobs ?? Understand the global economy and dont bring in petty things which confuse people. I am not an MS employee and thank god i am not, since i am seeing some people like these who are almost like kids would are working, they need to first grow up and then write software. So go out , socialize, you will know there is a lot in world more than your own deep shitty world of microsoft.

Boohoo IDC, a bunch of mediocre performers are getting laid off...how do you think you got the jobs? Americans were laid off, so not a single tear for Hyberabad How many people have this attitude in microsoft ? If a lot of americans in microsoft have the same attitude all i can say is that i will ask people outside america to rethink their OS plans. BOYCOTT MICROSOFT !!! BOYCOTT !!!! We will have a better world without microsoft.

In India, people were not cut not only based on performance, even based on 'ass licking' skills. How much you lick your manager's ass, you're saved that much- Do not think about stop the licking, even if he is new to the system tell him and get used to the service. He'll certainly enjoy thisThat's what I would call a "curry feast"

I'm not sure about others, but I've had issues working with IDC and CDC. I'm not trying to be racist, it's just a fact. I work with some very bright Indian/Chinese on my team. I'm more of the thought that most the best and brightest of India/China have moved to the US/EU/etc for better quality of life.

Now though, I wonder if more people will rethink their decision. MS works people to the bone, and now future prospects are bleak. Why bother?

Does anyone know if mailbox migrations, i.e. switching a mailbox to another server, can make it look like people are unsubscribing from all DL Memberships?

I'm thinking specifically about the colleague updates in My Sites, such as "so and so unsubcribed from abc, def, and xyz aliases." I'm seeing lots of colleagues unsubscribing to (or being unsubscribed from) lots of aliases.

Not trying to create FUD, but wondering what might be the cause of the funky behavior. My guess is there's a technical reason of some sort, hopefully related to back-end server testing/migration, so trying not to freak.

Anybody who's been with MS for 10 years or more and gets canned is only a victim of their own complacency.

Those people had time to witness the out of control headcount growth and the multiplication of management layers. They saw the squandered opportunities. They saw the decline in stock price, the execs' greed, the partners who make a million and year to contribute little or nothing.

If you've been with MS for 10 years or more you know what it used to be like, and you know what it has become.

Most people I know in that situation who had any kind of marketable skill got out between 2004 and 2008, while the economy was good and jobs plentiful. If you didn't you either had no useful skills or were too stupid to realize that the company was on the road to nowhere.

Most people I know in that situation who had any kind of marketable skill got out between 2004 and 2008, while the economy was good and jobs plentiful. If you didn't you either had no useful skills or were too stupid to realize that the company was on the road to nowhere.And where are those people now? Good chance they're laid off and looking for work, so it's not like they made out any better than those who stayed behind.

If you've been with MS for 10 years or more you know what it used to be like, and you know what it has become.well well , i can say still HR will promote it as the best place. Marketing will kill other companies and sell its crap. Managers will think they are the gods of the world. There are some people who are DUMB who will drool and the very thought of going to MSFT, so ms doesnt need to worry, there are lots of crazy people out there, thanks to bill gates legacy. steve balmer is going to kill this company.

And where are those people now? Good chance they're laid off and looking for work, so it's not like they made out any better than those who stayed behindI'm doing just fine, thanks. When the bottom fell out last year my employer went into survival mode like most companies but we've since reported two decent quarters. No layoffs and I have started seeing exceptions to the hiring freeze.

When I left MSFT 2 years ago I thought I was taking a step down in terms of job security. Needless to say I no longer feel that way.

"When I left MSFT 2 years ago I thought I was taking a step down in terms of job security. Needless to say I no longer feel that way."

ORLY.

Given the number of friends I have locally in non-MS tech who have been tossed on their asses not just once but sometimes 2 and 3 times over the last couple of years due to layoffs, I think you might be the exception to the rule.

Given the number of friends I have locally in non-MS tech who have been tossed on their asses not just once but sometimes 2 and 3 times over the last couple of years due to layoffs, I think you might be the exception to the rule.

MSFT is still far more secure than most other places at the moment...

Good for you. Keep working here in the most secure place of the moment.

Yeah, a 2-3% net reduction. OMG, the sky if falling.You can't possibly be that gullible.

Did you take a look at the last two quarterly results? They were bad, Add to that Wall Street's positive reaction to the cost cutting and layoffs are virtually guaranteed to exceed the original target of 5000.

Now of course management will minimize and sugar coat. And idiots like you will blindly repeat what they're told.

"I'm more of the thought that most the best and brightest of India/China have moved to the US/EU/etc for better quality of life. "

Ur absolutely Wrong. Lots of Indians dont move out of India as they are stuck to their families here and visited U.S once in a while only to make money.If it was true that all the best are in U.S and not in India, then Indian economy would have never grown.

"MSFT is still far more secure than most other places at the moment..."

Good for you. Keep working here in the most secure place of the moment.

I will, thanks. And just to help you read for meaning, "more secure than most" does not mean "the most secure". I sure hope you don't code, as that kind of logical equivocation error results in... Windows Live Search.

"An admin from SPAG HR has booked up conference rooms in 109 and all of RedWest from 8-5 on Tuesday. Godspeed, all."Who cares? If you haven't been living your life for the last 3 months as if you were one day away from not having a job, you deserve everything you get.

Godspeed? More like good riddance, and I might well be in the next wave of people to get the axe so it's not like I think I'm immune.

We have a couple of old farts in our group, one is late 40s and one is 50+. I have to believe these geezers are going to get it. I think our manager has figured out that no one wants to work with or socialize with someone as old as their father.

Make way, gramps, it's our turn now. You are how old as you are and you are only L63devs ...sheesh...time to put you geezers out to pasture and make room for new talent and ideas.

"I don't know what job I'll have in 5, 10 or 20 years but I know for sure that I will still be able to look at myself in the mirror every morning you shallow prick."Which comment are you responding to? C'mon, I want to either support you or call you a retard.

Two Age Group enter, One Age Group leaveTwo Age Group enter, One Age Group leaveTwo Age Group enter, One Age Group leaveWhat the hell kind of drivel is this? What exactly are you saying here? You're obviously not American, judging from your poor English. I hope your ass is canned on Tue. Moron!

If MS wants it's mojo back it needs young and aggressive talent with new ideas and high drive.It sucks to see this blog become an agist, xenophobic playground.

I've seen lots of "old farts" with cool ideas and plenty of energy (and wisdom) to carry them out. Conversely, I've seen my share of young punks who are sticks-in-the-mud and want everything to be cut, dried, and handed to them with detailed instructions. Talent, mindset, and follow-through are far more important than age, gender, nationality, et al.

I wish people would get over themselves with all the narrow-minded thinking. I guess fear is taking over and bringing out the worst in many people, especially those who already have insecurity issues.

I am in my fifties and recently moved to a group where 90% devs and testers are very youyng. Boy, what a mess they have done to their product is unimaginable and most probably beyound repair at this point (I wouldn't be surprised they completely disband this group this Tuesday). Age has absoultely nothing to do with developing software. It has everything to do with finding people with talent, but you know Microsoft is clueless to find people with talent.

I am surprised at the number of people who didn't get the reference. They should be laid off first. Let's face it, if you don't get basic nods to well known sci-fi films, you have no place in the software industry.

MM: "I'm scared, Fif. It's that rat circus out there, I'm beginning to enjoy it. Look, any longer out on that road and I'm one of them, a terminal psychotic, except that I've got this bronze badge that says that I'm one of the good guys."

"I am surprised at the number of people who didn't get the reference. They should be laid off first. Let's face it, if you don't get basic nods to well known sci-fi films, you have no place in the software industry."

Let's face it, if you don't get basic nods to well known sci-fi films, you have no place in the software industry.

It's been a slow news day, otherwise I wouldn't bother to respond to this drivel.

Sorry, but I realized I had a choice between being a propellerhead sci-fi nerd who spends every weekend at the Renaissance Faire or a modern software professional who spends every weekend bird-doggin' chicks and bangin' beaver and, well, let me put it this way:

The twins and I hope you had a good time in your Yoda costume at all those Star Wars premieres.

Wrong. This is the drunken biker bar area of minimsft where steam is to be let off.

Now here are 2 things you don't often seen mentioned together: Microsoft employees and biker bars.BTW none of you should ever try setting foot in a real bar. You're much safer sticking to you company sponsored "pub".

"BTW none of you should ever try setting foot in a real bar. You're much safer sticking to you company sponsored "pub"."Apparently you've never seen a drunken group of Microsofties in a "real" bar.

I've been in groups who have been 86'd from dives in Vegas after throwing bottles at bouncers -- and that was just the woman who was pissed-off because said bouncer wouldn't fuck her in the bathroom. You'd be surprised. ;-)

I've been in groups who have been 86'd from dives in Vegas after throwing bottles at bouncers -- and that was just the woman who was pissed-off because said bouncer wouldn't fuck her in the bathroom. You'd be surprised. ;-)That wild side of MS is long gone, they all cashed out and retired.. perhaps find them ridin around in their choppers. Today MS is filled with these uppity pansies who wrap their tires with snowchains and do 10 miles/hr coz they saw one fuck'n snowflake, or look to buy military grade gas masks because the morning news said something about a new strain of flu.

"Did you take a look at the last two quarterly results? They were bad, Add to that Wall Street's positive reaction to the cost cutting and layoffs are virtually guaranteed to exceed the original target of 5000."

Yes, they were awful. You guys suck. Wall Street always has a positive reaction to cost cuts, especially with companies who have a track record of over spending. But maybe you noticed that for nine year MS hasn't cared a lot about what Wall Street wanted? The original target was never 5000. It was "up to" 5000 over *18 months*, inclusive of normal attrition, AND immediately qualified that the company would be hiring between 2-3K new positions. So 2-3K effective including attrition, which is less than 2-3%.

"Now of course management will minimize and sugar coat. And idiots like you will blindly repeat what they're told."

No, management will continue to avoid doing what it needs to and making token cuts. Meanwhile morons like yourself, who probably aren't adding value anyway, will remain employed and complaining instead of being grateful.

"Can anyone confirm if the layoffs on 4 and 5 May are for real? There seems to be more talk about it rather than actual experiences shared so far."You can ask this fucking inane question a million more times and YOU STILL WON'T GET AN ANSWER.

Jesus people, can you please stop masturbating over the next round of layoffs? This is an anonymous internet forum, you're not going to get any real information here.

"Most of the genuine biker dudes I've run across at MS are v-dashes doing backroom data and hardware stuff.

They tend to congregate on certain DLs, and they think you're all a bunch of fuckin' douchebag pussy sellouts.

And they're probably right."

Let's not talk about douchebag pussy biker dudes who work at Microsoft as v-dash backroom data trogs and fancy themselves real bikers.

Puh-lease, Nancy. Give me a fucking break -- we're talking about IT monkeys who dream about being rebels, they're hardly *real* bikers. Real bikers are not vendors at Microsoft, for the love of christ.

"Most of the genuine biker dudes I've run across at MS are v-dashes doing backroom data and hardware stuff.

They tend to congregate on certain DLs, and they think you're all a bunch of fuckin' douchebag pussy sellouts.

And they're probably right."

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Hint: if you went to ITT Tech after High School and live in Renton with your skank wife and 3 kids, you're not a real biker, even if you have a chopper in your garage and hang-out in the right bars when you can get away from your miserable life for a few minutes.

You're actually just a douche with a trade school pseudo-education living in a shitty part of town with an even shittier job in a cube at Microsoft who dreams of bustin' out of the system.

But thanks for the laugh -- the thought of a bunch of network techs pretending that they're something other than the class of people who clean my house is highly amusing. ;-)

we're talking about IT monkeys who dream about being rebels, they're hardly *real* bikers. Real bikers are not vendors at Microsoft, for the love of christ.Iz you surez? Cuz sum of dem haz long hairz and beardzes and wearz sunglassez in deys profile picturz! Bikerz!

But thanks for the laugh -- the thought of a bunch of network techs pretending that they're something other than the class of people who clean my house is highly amusing. ;-)Exhibit A why Microsoft will never win the Internet. "Network? Who cares about the network?"

In January, in response to the global economic downturn, I announced our plan to adjust the company’s cost structure through spending reductions and job eliminations. Today, we are implementing the second phase of this plan.

This is difficult news to share. Because our success at Microsoft has always been the direct result of the talent, hard work, and commitment of our people, eliminating positions is hard.

Today’s action includes positions in the United States and in a number of countries around the world. In the U.S., affected employees will be notified directly by their managers today. In other countries, local leadership teams will provide more specific information about the impact to their organizations.

With this announcement, we are mostly but not all done with the planned 5,000 job eliminations by June 2010. We are moving quickly to reach this target in response to consistent feedback from our people and business groups that it’s important to make decisions and reduce uncertainty for employees as quickly as possible, and so that organizations can concentrate their efforts and resources on strategic objectives.

As we move forward, we will continue to closely monitor the impact of the economic downturn on the company and if necessary, take further actions on our cost structure including additional job eliminations.

For those of you directly affected by today’s announcement, I want to thank you for your contribution to Microsoft and assure you that we will continue to provide support as we did during the previous job eliminations.

And for everyone across the company, I want to reemphasize how much I appreciate the way you have pulled together to help the company respond to this difficult economic environment. There’s no doubt that these are very challenging times. But together, we are making the right choices to ensure that we will continue to deliver great products and position ourselves for strong future growth and profitability.

You're safe if you haven't gotten a surprise meeting invite for your group or from your GM.

The meeting invite from our GM came half an hour after SteveB's message, and it's for 9AM today. But it's a phone-in meeting for all. Maybe that's not so bad--unless we're all getting laid of by teleconference. Sort of liking dumping your girlfriend by text, I guess.

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About

This is what doesn't make it into the Mini-Microsoft blog at http://minimsft.blogspot.com/. Off-topic comments, random topics, etc... just a way for me to easily peel off from there good content that doesn't contribute to a lean, mean, Microsoft-machine. Things are a bit... looser here.

Disclaimer

These are sole individual personal points-of-view and the
posts and comments by the participants in no way represent the official
point-of-view of Microsoft or any other organization. This is a
discussion to foster debate and by no means an enactment of
policy-violation. These posts are provided "as-is" with no warranties
and confer no rights. So chill. And think.