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tinyE: I would imagine the reason you aren't so fond of the movies is because ALL of the bad guys are English.

F4LL0UT: Please, according to that logic barely any German would like WWII movies. :P You'd have to be some fucked up nationalist to dislike movies for such reasons.

:D Yeah, I was being a profound smartass with that comment! I didn't mean anything by it, and while I don't mind offending people in other forums, I really like everyone in here so I apologize if the remark seemed incesitive (spell). My whole point was that I do think it's odd that ALL of the bad guys are English. If you are doing a WW2 movie from the point of view of the Allies of course the bad guys are going to be German, that is historically accurate, but it a galaxy far far away why the need to give all the villians English accents is beyond me. I guess it just sounds better saying "Fire when ready." with that nice crisp English lilt than say an American sootherner saying " Yall go ahead an' shoot when ye want to!"

nijuu: Not sure why people would advise to watch DS9. Like you ive already thought and heard from others Babylon 5 was the better of the Babylon 5 v DS9 (pretty much same premise). TNG was always better than DS9 as well....

Why wouldn't they? I'll agree that Babylon 5 is better as a whole, but that doesn't make DS9 a bad show. On the contrary. Personally, I even prefer DS9 over TNG, although I love both shows.

timppu: [...] I guess I always expected an space opera, while in fact it is some kind of artsy fartsy TV show dealing with important issues of today translated to easily understandable format for common people, like racism, pigotry, democracy etc. And of course the overall worldview in the show is very US centric, as in the Federation (at least the participants from Earth) = US who is the good power of the universe while the other cultures are more or less broken with their odd local customs and unfair policies. The Federation is the good power which invad... contacts new civilizations, bringing peace and prosperity to them.

But I'd let the political connotations fly, if only there were interesting space combat scenes too! Phweee, phwee! That's why I always liked Babylon 5 so much. [...]

I am not so sure if it is all that US centric, it is a pretty socialist future to begin with. The original Star Trek series was also the first US-show to air where a Russian and a Japanese character where part of the crew and the first show to show a kiss between a black woman and a white man on TV. The polished look on the future also comes a bit from a technocratic enthusiasm(?) of the early stages. Roughly the idea that technology will only progress till man is freed of most of his needs. It is later contrasted by the introduction of the Borg as the 'dark side' of technology. Star Trek: TNG also lost a bit of its philosophical spin after the first 3 seasons since Gene Roddenbury died and the series got more action focused.

Star Wars could just as well be considered fantasy with robots for all I know. It seems that nobody gives a damn about the set up to a degree that it could just as well be magic.

Fenixp: Yeah, quite a few people that I know of seem to share a similar opinion, that's why would people suggest DS9 - they did to me.

And for a reason, I'd say. I for one LOVE the fact that DS9 goes both against Roddenberry's ideology in more than a few ways and the pure otherness of the show, especially in comparison to *ugh* Voyager.

As far as quality sci-fi shows go, the mid to late 90s were awesome. The latter seasons of TNG, DS9, the wonderful Babylon 5 series, maybe even the early years of Stargate SG-1, if all you wanted was an entertaining sci-fi action show.

Fenixp: Yeah, quite a few people that I know of seem to share a similar opinion, that's why would people suggest DS9 - they did to me.

Nergal01: And for a reason, I'd say. I for one LOVE the fact that DS9 goes both against Roddenberry's ideology in more than a few ways and the pure otherness of the show, especially in comparison to *ugh* Voyager.

As far as quality sci-fi shows go, the mid to late 90s were awesome. The latter seasons of TNG, DS9, the wonderful Babylon 5 series, maybe even the early years of Stargate SG-1, if you all wanted was an entertaining sci-fi action show.

nijuu: I wonder what they will do with 7/8/9 as all the original actors are fairly old now....

I think they'll tell the story of the new Jedi order and Luke's son (and perhaps the twins of Leia and Han). Three generations of Skywalkers. From Anakin to Luke to Ben (that's the name of Luke's son in the expanded universe). From the end of the Jedi order, to the end of the dark lords to the rising of the new Jedi order. Would be logical and it would open the doors for nearly untouched ground and lots of disneyish stuff.

I'm not so sure about the old actors... Mark Hamill does look like the Emperor now and I'm sure that Han Solo wouldn't rescue Carrie Fisher from a Star Destroyer nowadays. Makeup is great, but it can't do wonders... Harrison Ford is the only one I would like too se again.

pingu53: Might get some flak for this but i think that Kotor 1 and 2 are better than any of the Star Wars movies, i just think they're alot more mature, have better characters, they have better stories, and they go deeper into the lore.

I know its not really good to compare em seeing as its movies vs gamea and the games are alot longer but i just feel Bioware and Obsidian really nailed the Star Wars universe better than Lucas Arts themselves

Star wars is so big that you can do any kind of story as long as it fits into the fictional history of the saga. There have been tons of books, comics, games etc. since the first movie and their "maturity" level varies a lot.

timppu: And of course the overall worldview in the show is very US centric, as in the Federation (at least the participants from Earth) = US who is the good power of the universe while the other cultures are more or less broken with their odd local customs and unfair policies. The Federation is the good power which invad... contacts new civilizations, bringing peace and prosperity to them.

Oh, I almost didn't see that bit of your post. Because, well, I don't think what kind of Star Trek were you watching, because that was precisely what I was expecting, yet The Next Generation seemed to NOT do it. Well, it did it as little as possible. I was often surprised by how ... Non-intrusive Enterprise's crew often is, and how episodes often got resolved in the favour of 'Weird and evil' ritual as opposed to 'US ALL THE WAY!' manner.

Fenixp: Oh, I almost didn't see that bit of your post. Because, well, I don't think what kind of Star Trek were you watching, because that was precisely what I was expecting, yet The Next Generation seemed to NOT do it. Well, it did it as little as possible. I was often surprised by how ... Non-intrusive Enterprise's crew often is, and how episodes often got resolved in the favour of 'Weird and evil' ritual as opposed to 'US ALL THE WAY!' manner.

Yeah I guess you are right, I didn't quite mean it is kind of redneck USA "we'll treat them to behave!"-kind of worldview. It is more like "Hey we are the good guys, we bring prosperity to you all.".

Anyway, even that is not really a problem for me, I was fine with Rambo movies too. But I wish it just had actual space combat scenes, other than "Shields down 60%. Release photon torpedoes.".

Robette: Star Trek: TNG also lost a bit of its philosophical spin after the first 3 seasons since Gene Roddenbury died and the series got more action focused.

tinyE: I really like everyone in here so I apologize if the remark seemed incesitive (spell).

Please, I don't see any reason why you should apologize for that. It's a reasonable theory to some degree.

tinyE: My whole point was that I do think it's odd that ALL of the bad guys are English. If you are doing a WW2 movie from the point of view of the Allies of course the bad guys are going to be German, that is historically accurate, but it a galaxy far far away why the need to give all the villians English accents is beyond me. I guess it just sounds better saying "Fire when ready." with that nice crisp English lilt than say an American sootherner saying " Yall go ahead an' shoot when ye want to!"

Well, for one note that most WWII movies aren't just historically accurate. They often include non-sensical stuff to underline the EVIL nature of "the other guys", just so the audience is more willing to identify with the protagonists. Even in those films which supposedly try to present both sides critically usually the status quo is "allies = heroes, nazis/Japanese = monsters" and any more advanced thoughts are expressed through additional scenes which are often very badly thought out. Same goes for the depiction of the EVIL Russians/Soviets. The truth is that the average guy doesn't seem to mind when Hollywood or a western game developer demonizes his nation. In fact most people I know enjoy satirical or just ignorant depictions of their nation. Most of my German friends love shooting Germans in WWII games or super evil Germans in motion pictures, my brother has lots of Russian friends and taught at a school there, they all seemed to love Freedom Fighters and Red Alert. Also first time I played Vice City was during a student exchange program in France - when a stereotypical French guy made an appearance in one mission my French buddies laughed their balls of. I don't know how Americans deal with that kind of stuff (apparently not so well considering the outrage when Epic's Chinese department announced its shooter where you play as Chinese soldiers and Americans are the bad guys) but the fact of the matter is that Europeans aren't very sensitive about that kind of stuff.

And as for the mystery why the Empire in Star Wars is so British: for one the original movie was AFAIK mostly filmed in the UK so most of the extras and supporting cast - who were mostly necessary for the imperial characters - naturally consisted of British fellas. Additionally the conflict as it was presented in the original movie was somewhat supposed to be an analogy to the American War of Independence so they used that situation to underline this sublime message. I don't think, however, that the average British person is offended by that kind of idea.