Ali and Foreman would have the best chance, and I would pick them both over prime Tyson.

Southpaw Stinger

07-23-2006, 10:24 AM

Foreman would flatten Tyson, Ali would outbox and out perform Tyson. Liston would have a good chance of KO'ing Tyson, Holyfield would always give Tyson trouble. If Frazier got past round 5 he would have a shot. Buster Douglas at his best could always cause an upset. Prime Larry Holmes would do much better than the old wreck Tyson destroyed.

These are just to name a few.

Hard Boiled HK

07-23-2006, 03:32 PM

no 1 cant beat tyson in his young days :boxing:

Good job, moron.

Verstyle

07-23-2006, 03:35 PM

Foreman would flatten Tyson, Ali would outbox and out perform Tyson. Liston would have a good chance of KO'ing Tyson, Holyfield would always give Tyson trouble. If Frazier got past round 5 he would have a shot. Buster Douglas at his best could always cause an upset. Prime Larry Holmes would do much better than the old wreck Tyson destroyed.

These are just to name a few.

if foreman can actually hit him then maybe. all must remember tyson had superb defense in his prime. how many times did he get hit by guys 10times faster then foreman? not that many so imagine tyson fighting foreman it wouldnt be that hard cause he would have to actually hit him to do something.ahahaaha

Southpaw Stinger

07-23-2006, 04:01 PM

if foreman can actually hit him then maybe. all must remember tyson had superb defense in his prime

I never remember Foreman not hitting anyone in a fight. Tyson comes forward so he's gonna get hit.

K-DOGG

07-23-2006, 04:20 PM

no 1 cant beat tyson in his young days :boxing:

Answers (the following fighters in their prime could have stopped Mike Tyson "back in the day")

Now, the point of all those fighters being listed (and more I didn't) is that NO MAN IS INVINCIBLE...not even Mike Tyson "back in the day".

Thank you.

u might as well add john ruiz cause that list is garbage

Southpaw Stinger

07-23-2006, 04:39 PM

he comes foward but hardly gets hit flush.

you don't need to get hit flush to feel the effects from foreman.

K-DOGG

07-23-2006, 04:39 PM

u might as well add john ruiz cause that list is garbage

Scof if you want, I could care less. The fact is Tyson isn't and never was a god. He's a man who was a great fighter; and people who can only see the effects of his knock-outs against "okay" opposistion are so easily brainwashed into believing the man was invincible that they can't see the flaws in his style and personality...like ever fighter has. Mike Tyson was human and was never invincible. He was beatable; and just because his reputation scared some fighters in his era into pissing themselves before the bell ever rang, it doesn't mean he would intimidate every fighter that ever lived. What makes a great figher is not only skills and ability, it's their mindset...that belief that they will not lose, that they will go through hell to win. Any fighter who ever lived with that mentality not only stood a chance against Tyson; but could have beaten him...and knocked him out.

Mike never was invincible, no matter what your "Mike Tyson's Greatest Hits DVD" tells you. He was a fighter; and like any fighter who ever lived, he had strengths and weaknesses. The right fighters in the right frame of mine very well could show you that, too....whether you want to see it or not.

There's fact and there's fantasy...and this belief that no one could have beaten Mike Tyson in his prime is pure fantasy

tyson also keeps his hands up in close. and of course will be throwing also. plus tyson is a mid-range fighter not inclose fighter

sleazyfellow

07-23-2006, 04:42 PM

Holyfield would always give Tyson trouble.

not "back in the day" as we're calling it....holyfield was small back then compared to when he finally got in the ring with tyson...way smaller

Verstyle

07-23-2006, 04:43 PM

Scof if you want, I could care less. The fact is Tyson isn't and never was a god. He's a man who was a great fighter; and people who can only see the effects of his knock-outs against "okay" opposistion are so easily brainwashed into believing the man was invincible that they can't see the flaws in his style and personality...like ever fighter has. Mike Tyson was human and was never invincible. He was beatable; and just because his reputation scared some fighters in his era into pissing themselves before the bell ever rang, it doesn't mean he would intimidate every fighter that ever lived. What makes a great figher is not only skills and ability, it's their mindset...that belief that they will not lose, that they will go through hell to win. Any fighter who ever lived with that mentality not only stood a chance against Tyson; but could have beaten him...and knocked him out.

Mike never was invincible, no matter what your "Mike Tyson's Greatest Hits DVD" tells you. He was a fighter; and like any fighter who ever lived, he had strengths and weaknesses. The right fighters in the right frame of mine very well could show you that, too....whether you want to see it or not.

There's fact and there's fantasy...and this belief that no one could have beaten Mike Tyson in his prime is pure fantasy

Accept it.

who asked for the college essay :confused: all i said is your list of some of those ppl r garbage. see i said what i had to say in SHORT and simple,right to the point

Southpaw Stinger

07-23-2006, 04:47 PM

tyson also keeps his hands up in close.

Foreman used to pull the guard down of fighters and hit them. He used his physical strength to man handle people, especially smaller guys. Tyson holding his hands up and attempting to duck won't help.

K-DOGG

07-23-2006, 04:48 PM

You think Jim Jeffries could beat Tyson?!

Yes, I can see it. Jeff was 6'2", 220 LBs and strong as an ox; a great athlete with an indominable spirit. He was stronger than Mike, and while crude, could take a wallop and I can see him outlasting Tyson and stopping him late. I do believe it is possible, yes.

K-DOGG

07-23-2006, 04:49 PM

who asked for the college essay :confused: all i said is your list of some of those ppl r garbage. see i said what i had to say in SHORT and simple,right to the point

Okay...short version: You are gravely mistaken.

Verstyle

07-23-2006, 04:51 PM

Okay...short version: You are gravely mistaken.

we'll both never know ;)

Verstyle

07-23-2006, 04:52 PM

Yes, I can see it. Jeff was 6'2", 220 LBs and strong as an ox; a great athlete with an indominable spirit. He was stronger than Mike, and while crude, could take a wallop and I can see him outlasting Tyson and stopping him late. I do believe it is possible, yes.

how do u know he was stronger then mike. have u been both of them fight. :confused:

K-DOGG

07-23-2006, 04:54 PM

how do u know he was stronger then mike. have u been both of them fight. :confused:

Have you been ringside for a Tyson fight...or in an arena where Mike was defending his championship during his heyday?

Piggu

07-23-2006, 05:01 PM

Good job, moron.
Like OMG, it's called spellcheck n00b!!!!!!!!!!

Verstyle

07-23-2006, 05:02 PM

Have you been ringside for a Tyson fight...or in an arena where Mike was defending his championship during his heyday?

nope.have u been to a jeffrey's fight?

K-DOGG

07-23-2006, 05:04 PM

nope.have u been to a jeffrey's fight?

Yes, I'm 123 years old. :rolleyes:

K-DOGG

07-23-2006, 05:09 PM

...of course not! But; I have seen footage of a prime Jeffries in action and I've read accounts of his athletic ability back in the day (just like I've seen footage of Tyson and read accounts of his accomplishments). He was one strong, determined S.O.B. He fought black fighters on the rise...Peter Jackson, for example....and ducked no one but Jack Johnson while he had the belt. He had trouble with classic boxers, of which Tyson was not. Tyson came at you...so, it is conceivable that Big Jeff could have beaten Tyson.

My point is it is conceveble....hope that wasn't too much of an essay.

fistlegend

07-23-2006, 05:23 PM

the list the guy a couple of pages back made, is pretty spot on

Hard Boiled HK

07-23-2006, 07:11 PM

u might as well add john ruiz cause that list is garbage

Ok, why don't you give us your list then, instead of always ripping on other people's choices/opinions. Or are you saying Tyson is the greatest ever and cannot be stopped, so a list is not available?

butterfly1964

07-24-2006, 03:14 AM

Ali, Liston, and foreman would stop him.

Krucial

10-21-2006, 11:56 PM

ay my fault my brother posted this

but to topic...
ali would clown mike tyson easily
tyson has no reach really
he boxes on the inside which gives ali's style(jumpin in to hit-jump out) an oppurtunity to jab his way to hooks
n ali is too careful to get hit by tyson(im talkin in ali's prime,not frazier flattenin em,lol)
ali would dance his way into a tko i'd say

Rockin'

10-22-2006, 12:14 AM

The only person that could take Tyson in his youth and send him through a meat grinder was Robin Givens. Go figure, a woman, how many fighters hav...............Rockin':boxing:

potatoes

10-22-2006, 12:35 AM

There is a rift between Mike Tyson the style and Mike Tyson the man. Any time in his career he faced an opponent who had enough talent to beat him and who made an effort to beat him, Tyson has lost. He had lots of opportunities to go to war as did Frazier, Marciano, Louis, Dempsey and many other great fighters in the past. But going to war wasn't part of Tyson's makeup. When anybody made things tough for him he would start fighting like an idiot. What he did against McBride, Lewis, Holyfield, Douglas and many others was not what Cus D'Amato taught him to do.

Who could beat Tyson? Anybody with a bit of skill who comes to fight.

Krucial

10-22-2006, 12:45 AM

There is a rift between Mike Tyson the style and Mike Tyson the man. Any time in his career he faced an opponent who had enough talent to beat him and who made an effort to beat him, Tyson has lost. He had lots of opportunities to go to war as did Frazier, Marciano, Louis, Dempsey and many other great fighters in the past. But going to war wasn't part of Tyson's makeup. When anybody made things tough for him he would start fighting like an idiot. What he did against McBride, Lewis, Holyfield, Douglas and many others was not what Cus D'Amato taught him to do.

Who could beat Tyson? Anybody with a bit of skill who comes to fight.
??????
look
tyson was waaaaayyy outta his prime fightin mcbride/lewis/even ettiene-tho he beat em/etc etc
holyfeild is better than tyson
in or out his prime
but tyson dun beat
-brian neilson(both out they prime,but neilson wasnt doin bad b4 they fought)
-golata(**** the NC)
-bruno(TWICE,in n out his prime)
spinks/tubbs/holmes/berbick/tucker/pinklon thomas
list goes on if im not wrong

ZOSOOSOZ

10-22-2006, 12:54 AM

Could Riddick Bowe, on his best night, possibly have stopped Tyson back in the day, perhaps in the 11th or 12th round?

potatoes

10-22-2006, 01:01 AM

??????
look
tyson was waaaaayyy outta his prime fightin mcbride/lewis/even ettiene-tho he beat em/etc etc
holyfeild is better than tyson
in or out his prime
but tyson dun beat
-brian neilson(both out they prime,but neilson wasnt doin bad b4 they fought)
-golata(**** the NC)
-bruno(TWICE,in n out his prime)
spinks/tubbs/holmes/berbick/tucker/pinklon thomas
list goes on if im not wrong

It is my belief that if Mike Tyson had just done what Cus D'Amato had taught him to do he would have won every fight. No one he faced had the style to beat him, Tyson beat himself. "Prime" didn't have **** to do with his loses.

Krucial

10-22-2006, 01:02 AM

Could Riddick Bowe, on his best night, possibly have stopped Tyson back in the day, perhaps in the 11th or 12th round?
i totally agree wit da rounds,bowe will kill mike:boxing: :boxing: :boxing:

Mike Tyson77

10-22-2006, 02:39 PM

A year ago if someone told me there was a sport greater than football, I would have laughed untill I pissed myself. "Iron" Mike changed all that, I know the sweet science is the greatest sport. Mike is the baddest man on the planet and the greatest of all time. That's my opinion and ill stick with it. He did more in his first 5 years than most fighters do in 20.

It is my belief that if Mike Tyson had just done what Cus D'Amato had taught him to do he would have won every fight. No one he faced had the style to beat him, Tyson beat himself. "Prime" didn't have **** to do with his loses.

Tyson's prime is "Mental" prime...like it has been stated many times over, without a strong corner, Tyson will have trouble against a good opponent, although he didn't do so bad against Ruddock.

I really need to figure out which documentary I heard it from, but remember it being on ESPN, it goes, "Tyson is only as good as the program you put into him"

To me, that basically sums it up...it was said that Tyson's mental strength came from the people around him: if he was around confident and assertive people, that is who he became...if he was around people that lacked confidence, he started to lack confidence.

Just look at the examples: If you go back and watch Tyson with Rooney, if Tyson said something like "I can't get inside", Rooney would say (with a loud assertive voice), "Don't say that, he is can be hit, get inside and kill the body", and Tyson listened...in the one fight with Tucker, Tyson was doubting himself, came back to the corner, and Rooney said something similar, saying "Your not jabbing, Use the jab, Use the Jab"...Tyson then went out and jabbed the **** out of Tucker, who if you didn't notice was taller than Tyson.

Then go watch Tyson's fight with Douglas or even with his victory over Ruddock, Tyson's facial expression in between rounds when his corner was talking to him had a face that said, "I don't want to be here, you guys are ****, I am not listening"

butterfly1964

10-23-2006, 09:48 AM

liston
dempsey
foreman
ali
frazier
louis
lewis
holyfield

and a lot more

The one's in bold are wrong.

Oasis_Lad

10-23-2006, 09:49 AM

The one's in bold are wrong.

i disagree

butterfly1964

10-23-2006, 09:53 AM

i disagree

Okay, but I don't see how Dempsey would beat Tyson, since Tyson is just a better version of Dempsey.

Abe Attell

10-23-2006, 09:54 AM

The one's in bold are wrong.

agree, the two guys that had a good chance were Foreman and pre-exile Ali.

Verstyle

10-23-2006, 10:15 AM

Foreman would flatten Tyson, Ali would outbox and out perform Tyson. Liston would have a good chance of KO'ing Tyson, Holyfield would always give Tyson trouble. If Frazier got past round 5 he would have a shot. Buster Douglas at his best could always cause an upset. Prime Larry Holmes would do much better than the old wreck Tyson destroyed.

These are just to name a few.

hahaha your crazy.foremans punchs r to slow for a prime tyson his defense was superb.and when he threw his combos he would pop then and take a few steps back to get outta there range.no way in hell would tyson stay in there like frazier did. and maybe just maybe ali could bet tyson.and u say if frazier got past 5? tysons stamina was crazy in his prime.watch the tony tucker fight threw out.and buster douglas?ahahaha u gotta be kidding me.when tyson fought him he didn't even utilize his jab to confuse and set him up.and liston is another slow fighter they wouldn't be able to figure out how to get passed tysons defense

butterfly1964

10-23-2006, 10:51 AM

hahaha your crazy.foremans punchs r to slow for a prime tyson his defense was superb.and when he threw his combos he would pop then and take a few steps back to get outta there range.no way in hell would tyson stay in there like frazier did. and maybe just maybe ali could bet tyson.and u say if frazier got past 5? tysons stamina was crazy in his prime.watch the tony tucker fight threw out.and buster douglas?ahahaha u gotta be kidding me.when tyson fought him he didn't even utilize his jab to confuse and set him up.and liston is another slow fighter they wouldn't be able to figure out how to get passed tysons defense

Maybe Foreman's punches are kind of slow, but when you can punch like Foreman, one punch is all you need.

Verstyle

10-23-2006, 12:15 PM

I never remember Foreman not hitting anyone in a fight. Tyson comes forward so he's gonna get hit.

yes tyson comes forward sorta.he stays outta the range of fights and when he feels like the times right he comes in with his jab then a combo and after he's done with the combo he steps back,and resets to do another combo.foreman wouldn't have that many opportunities to hit tyson when he does that,remember frazier is the one that tends to come in and try to stay in. tyson goes in and out.most of u guys confuse tyson for frazier and they were pretty different

Southpaw Stinger

10-23-2006, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by kid achilles
Foreman was slower than a lot of smaller guys he faced yet he had no trouble landing on them. Frazier was quicker than Foreman yet where was Frazier's head movement and quickness when he was almost decapitated by Foreman's punches?

It's a huge generalization of a complex sport like boxing to say something like fighter A is quicker than fighter B and therefore it's impossible for fighter B to land on them. I've seen some fat awkward, slow white guys catch Tyson on his way up and they weren't half as quick as Foreman. Baldomir fights in slow motion compared to Judah yet he had no trouble landing on him. Slow people hit faster guys all the time in boxing, through timing, and through throwing enough punches that the quicker guy can't evade them all.

catskills23

10-23-2006, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by kid achilles
Foreman was slower than a lot of smaller guys he faced yet he had no trouble landing on them. Frazier was quicker than Foreman yet where was Frazier's head movement and quickness when he was almost decapitated by Foreman's punches?

It's a huge generalization of a complex sport like boxing to say something like fighter A is quicker than fighter B and therefore it's impossible for fighter B to land on them. I've seen some fat awkward, slow white guys catch Tyson on his way up and they weren't half as quick as Foreman. Baldomir fights in slow motion compared to Judah yet he had no trouble landing on him. Slow people hit faster guys all the time in boxing, through timing, and through throwing enough punches that the quicker guy can't evade them all.

bonecrusher smith was as strong and as slow as foreman and he couldnt land on tyson .

Abe Attell

10-23-2006, 01:51 PM

Frazier was a plodder, this is why he got his head taken off.

Southpaw Stinger

10-23-2006, 01:55 PM

bonecrusher smith was as strong and as slow as foreman and he couldnt land on tyson .

smith wasn't as strong as foreman. nor was he in the same league as a fighter.

Verstyle

10-23-2006, 02:35 PM

Maybe Foreman's punches are kind of slow, but when you can punch like Foreman, one punch is all you need.

when has tyson been down from 1 punch?tyson would have to be standing still for foreman to pop him good

Southpaw Stinger

10-23-2006, 02:40 PM

when has tyson been down from 1 punch?tyson would have to be standing still for foreman to pop him good

Who be backed into a corner or against the ropes.

The Noose

10-23-2006, 02:51 PM

Foreman would flatten Tyson, Ali would outbox and out perform Tyson. Liston would have a good chance of KO'ing Tyson, Holyfield would always give Tyson trouble. If Frazier got past round 5 he would have a shot. Buster Douglas at his best could always cause an upset. Prime Larry Holmes would do much better than the old wreck Tyson destroyed.

These are just to name a few.

Although Holmes was "fresh" outs retirement wen he fought Tyson, he carried on fighting for many years against top ranked opponents.

None ever came close to doing what Tyson did to him. So i always give Tyson credit for that KO. Rather than dismissing it as a win over an old man.

Southpaw Stinger

10-23-2006, 02:54 PM

Although Holmes was "fresh" outs retirement wen he fought Tyson, he carried on fighting for many years against top ranked opponents.

None ever came close to doing what Tyson did to him. So i always give Tyson credit for that KO. Rather than dismissing it as a win over an old man.

Oh definatly, I could still see prime Holmes falling to Tyson but it wouldn't be as bad as the old Holmes.

Verstyle

10-23-2006, 03:08 PM

Who be backed into a corner or against the ropes.

when when have u really seen a prime tyson in the corner?he didn't allow himself to get into that situation.remember your talking to a guy that probably watchs more tyson then every1 on these boards and I study his movements.and even when he has in the corner,look at an outta prime tyson vs. buster mathis when tyson was in the corner he just pivoted and got out and cught mathis with a brutal combo to drop him

Southpaw Stinger

10-23-2006, 03:35 PM

when when have u really seen a prime tyson in the corner?

when have you seen Foreman never been able to lay a glove on someone? He never had a round where he didn't hit someone, and when he had guys hurt he was very accurate with his shots.

ben41193

10-23-2006, 03:50 PM

ROCKY MARCIANO!!!!!!

Marciano would ko tyson in the 7th rund

butterfly1964

10-23-2006, 06:25 PM

ROCKY MARCIANO!!!!!!

Marciano would ko tyson in the 7th rund

I doubt it.

aljon

10-24-2006, 04:17 PM

Joe Louis would outsmart/outbox/KTFO Tyson...

Krucial

10-25-2006, 08:33 AM

man
to tell u da truth...theres so many mysteries bout Tyson
to why he lost to buster douglas
he was under stress
dat ***** Givens was fuccin his head up by bein a golddiggin hoe
how was he mentally prepared 4 da fight?
if it wasnt for that....tyson woulda knocked em out early
cuz u all seen buster go down 1st....tyson popped em hard

n holyfeild can beat tyson prime or not
holyfeild punches hard as hell
probly a lil a lessharder than mike
but i see y mike tyson bit his ear
holyfeild was headbuttin da **** outta em
im not sayin u gotta bite the guy(remember wen he bit lennox lewis in da leg?lol)
but he was fuccin irritated wit that headbuttin

n i dont think lennox coulda beat tyson from 87-97
lewis caught em in 02'(2 years after the fight was proposed)
too much too think of when it comes to boxing
ROCKY MARCIANO!!!!!!

Marciano would ko tyson in the 7th rund
dont think so
tyson is way quicker than rocky
n stronger
both r huge punchers but go figure....
who will win?
the fast devastating puncher?
or the devastating puncher?
when have you seen Foreman never been able to lay a glove on someone? He never had a round where he didn't hit someone, and when he had guys hurt he was very accurate with his shots.
foreman is strong but sloppy
sum times accurate
some times clumbsy to me
but it didnt matter....he will hit u
n wen he hits u big....its over
but tysons punches r more accurate
he could easily box inside on foreman n murder him

Southpaw Stinger

10-25-2006, 08:38 AM

he could easily box inside on foreman n murder him

Which he wouldn't be able to do because he would be extremely out muscled. Whenever someone got inside on George pushed them away and then stuck them with jabs. That is the old swarmer slugger metaphor.
I can't see George losing to anyone under 6'.

Krucial

10-25-2006, 03:33 PM

Which he wouldn't be able to do because he would be extremely out muscled. Whenever someone got inside on George pushed them away and then stuck them with jabs. That is the old swarmer slugger metaphor.
I can't see George losing to anyone under 6'.
if foreman's chin catches tyson's punch...its over
n wen tyson gets on the inside he immediately swarms all over u
foreman will b sloppin punches all over not hittin **** becuz tyson will b weavin left n rite...
swingin at da time time
n its over in a matter of rounds

redxl7

10-25-2006, 04:24 PM

A prime Tyson was really something, but I too think he could've been beaten.
and these are my picks:

Marciano
Ali
Foreman
Liston
Louis
Frazier

Southpaw Stinger

10-25-2006, 05:37 PM

if foreman's chin catches tyson's punch...its over
n wen tyson gets on the inside he immediately swarms all over u
foreman will b sloppin punches all over not hittin **** becuz tyson will b weavin left n rite...
swingin at da time time
n its over in a matter of rounds

Again based on what? If Tysons chin catches Foremans punch it's over. The difference is Foreman has the better chin, heart, reach, power and strength and also styles advantage.

butterfly1964

10-25-2006, 05:39 PM

Again based on what? If Tysons chin catches Foremans punch it's over. The difference is Foreman has the better chin, heart, reach, power and strength and also styles advantage.

Yeah, Tyson might do better against Foreman than frazier did, but he's still not winning.

Krucial

10-26-2006, 03:31 AM

Again based on what? If Tysons chin catches Foremans punch it's over. The difference is Foreman has the better chin, heart, reach, power and strength and also styles advantage.
tyson knocked out plenny wit good chins
he had the power
someone who can dance around em n stand up 2 em can possibly beat em...if they dont let em land a solid shot
foreman will giv em plenny oppurtunities to do that
n we all know height or reach dont matter in a tyson fight

tyson knocked out plenny wit good chins
he had the power
someone who can dance around em n stand up 2 em can possibly beat em...if they dont let em land a solid shot
foreman will giv em plenny oppurtunities to do that
n we all know height or reach dont matter in a tyson fight

Height and reach matters a lot in a Tyson fight just like any other fight. And since when did Tyson dance around guys and not get hit? Tyson was a swarmer not a dancer. Tyson was Tyson, not Ali!

micky_knox

10-26-2006, 06:15 AM

any of the greats would have had a chance of stopping tyson........but he had just as much a chance of stopping them...

i cant just make a list and say "yes these guys would have stopped him" because its to hard to say what would have happend.....

mike is a all time great and belongs to be amoungst the other greats in history

who would have beaten whom is irrelevant really

Southpaw Stinger

10-26-2006, 06:19 AM

any of the greats would have had a chance of stopping tyson........but he had just as much a chance of stopping them...

i cant just make a list and say "yes these guys would have stopped him" because its to hard to say what would have happend.....

mike is a all time great and belongs to be amoungst the other greats in history

who would have beaten whom is irrelevant really

Thats a good intelliegent post. pretty much agree with you there.

micky_knox

10-26-2006, 06:30 AM

Thats a good intelliegent post. pretty much agree with you there.

thanks man

im glad you agree,the old my favorite fighter is better than your favorite fighter is school yard stuff really

we should celebrate them all:boxing:

Southpaw Stinger

10-26-2006, 06:32 AM

thanks man

im glad you agree,the old my favorite fighter is better than your favorite fighter is school yard stuff really

we should celebrate them all:boxing:

Indeed. You're the only one with a Tyson sig who's tried to stop a Tyson argument. That has to be a record. :boxing:

micky_knox

10-26-2006, 06:37 AM

Indeed. You're the only one with a Tyson sig who's tried to stop a Tyson argument. That has to be a record. :boxing:

haha

i think your right :)

Krucial

10-26-2006, 04:31 PM

Height and reach matters a lot in a Tyson fight just like any other fight. And since when did Tyson dance around guys and not get hit? Tyson was a swarmer not a dancer. Tyson was Tyson, not Ali!
look man
i meant anyone who can dance around n not get hit can beat Tyson
ass.....
i was referring to ali mainly
n height n reach dont matter(considering how mikes reach aint up to par wit alotta dudes he knocked out)

look man
i meant anyone who can dance around n not get hit can beat Tyson
ass.....
i was referring to ali mainly
n height n reach dont matter(considering how mikes reach aint up to par wit alotta dudes he knocked out)

Well Ali knocked out Foreman with tactics and exhuastion, not with power. No one ever beat Foreman with power. Foreman was only stopped once in all of his fights where as all of Tysons losses were stoppages.

Foreman forced and beat guys like Cooney and Lyle who punches harder than Ali or Tyson so pwer ain't the key.

Krucial

10-26-2006, 05:09 PM

Well Ali knocked out Foreman with tactics and exhuastion, not with power. No one ever beat Foreman with power. Foreman was only stopped once in all of his fights where as all of Tysons losses were stoppages.

i know what im talkin about dude
foremna is too sloppy to not get knocked out by tyson

n ALI caught foreman flush on his chin bout 3times
n u can tell ALI used all his power to do it
u can see it in him
ALI had evrything to lose
he lost to Frazier b4
so he had 2 step it up n knock some'n out

i know what im talkin about dude
foremna is too sloppy to not get knocked out by tyson

n ALI caught foreman flush on his chin bout 3times
n u can tell ALI used all his power to do it
u can see it in him
ALI had evrything to lose
he lost to Frazier b4
so he had 2 step it up n knock some'n out

Foreman was under more pressure for the rumble in the jungle than Tyson was in Tokyo. And Foreman was still winning at 46 when Tyson was getting flattened in his late 20's.
I know what I'm talking about man. Foreman was gassed out and Ali knocked him down. Foreman wasn't out cold he was just too tired to make it up in time.

And also Foreman lost his title to the greatest heavyweight of all time. Tyson was knocked cold by BUSTER DOUGLAS. Theres no excuse for that in the long run. Many fighters have off days and and lack motivation but they can still pull out a win, or at least hang in there without getting KO'd. And Lewis was older than Tyson so don't start that.

The Noose

10-26-2006, 05:42 PM

look man
i meant anyone who can dance around n not get hit can beat Tyson
ass.....
i was referring to ali mainly

Ali was in a different class to the vast majority of fighters.
Dancing around and trying to land jabs wouldnt mean u could beat Tyson.

He is similar to Frazier in as much as at his best he would wear u down with his pressure and wen u stopped dancing, he'd knocked u out.

Jimmy Ellis tried to dance against Frazier but couldnt keep him off, got dragged into Fraziers fight and was KO'd.
Same with Tyrell Biggs and Tyson.

Foreman is definatly the man to beat Tyson. But he'd have to be at his best. I think the older Foreman could rock Tyson, but would get punished for 12 rounds.
Tyson i think could KO the Foreman who fought Lyle. Only because Foreman hadnt fought for 2 years.

Abe Attell

10-26-2006, 05:43 PM

Have you ever heard and read the interviews with Tyson throughout his career, let alone the interviews dealing with Robin?

The guy was stressed out like a MF most of his life...he seemed to want to escape from boxing.

Foreman had to deal with his own problems when fighting Ali, true...this is why I would of liked to know what would of happened if there was a rematch on American soil...I can't remember who mentioned it, but it was in a documentary, that if the fight had taken place sooner, before Foreman got cut, George would of won because he would of stuck with his gameplan and his confidence was very high...the World is unfair, but you have to manage.

Abe Attell

10-26-2006, 05:47 PM

Ali was in a different class to the vast majority of fighters.
Dancing around and trying to land jabs wouldnt mean u could beat Tyson.

He is similar to Frazier in as much as at his best he would wear u down with his pressure and wen u stopped dancing, he'd knocked u out.

Jimmy Ellis tried to dance against Frazier but couldnt keep him off, got dragged into Fraziers fight and was KO'd.
Same with Tyrell Biggs and Tyson.

Foreman is definatly the man to beat Tyson. But he'd have to be at his best. I think the older Foreman could rock Tyson, but would get punished for 12 rounds.
Tyson i think could KO the Foreman who fought Lyle. Only because Foreman hadnt fought for 2 years.

Older Foreman, though smarter, wasn't better...his punch speed in his prime is also underrated: he wasn't slow, it was just that he threw his punches from South America that you could see them coming, but if you look back in his early part of his career, especially the Gold Medal fight, you see him throwing sharp and fast jabs that were hard to get away from. A great trainer like Emanuel Steward or even a Ray Arcel (who was in George's time) would of stayed on George to keep his hands up, keep working his jab to help pace himself, and keep his punches sharp by keeping them more straight...I swear, George in that fight fighting for the Gold really had some sharp looking punches compared to later on...maybe I am wrong, I haven't seen the fight in a while.

For the Lyle fight, that is unfair: Foreman wasn't the same mentally after the Ail fight since he couldn't get a rematch quickly...in the fight with Lyle you George was unaggressive until he got knocked down, then his instincts kicked in and he went back to the way he was...George still had the problem of being sloppy and taking to many punches flush.

j

10-26-2006, 05:52 PM

the fanbase of tyson is mainly built around an image used for mass marketing. and this image is so imprinted, mainly in young people who are under 30 years of age, that it preceeds his actual fighting ability. in turn, this usually leads people to assume/believe that most any boxer outside of ali(who has another deeply imprinted image in society) can't even hold a candle to tyson.

yeah, i do think many fighters throughout the decades are more than capable of beating tyson. marciano, ali, dempsey, j johnson, j louis, lewis, v klitschko, wallcott, and quite a few more. i think many of the good larger boxers who don't get intimidated easily have at the very least a fair shot.

something that you would do well to remember - promotions. if i started out a young boxer who can punch pretty hard, give him 20 to 30 guys who have records of 3-16, 3-0, 8-5, 14-9, 11-4, etc and pay a few guys a little extra to fall, i've just created the next tyson! it also helps if the title holders at the time aren't the most talented.

Southpaw Stinger

10-26-2006, 07:31 PM

the fanbase of tyson is mainly built around an image used for mass marketing. and this image is so imprinted, mainly in young people who are under 30 years of age, that it preceeds his actual fighting ability. in turn, this usually leads people to assume/believe that most any boxer outside of ali(who has another deeply imprinted image in society) can't even hold a candle to tyson.

yeah, i do think many fighters throughout the decades are more than capable of beating tyson. marciano, ali, dempsey, j johnson, j louis, lewis, v klitschko, wallcott, and quite a few more. i think many of the good larger boxers who don't get intimidated easily have at the very least a fair shot.

something that you would do well to remember - promotions. if i started out a young boxer who can punch pretty hard, give him 20 to 30 guys who have records of 3-16, 3-0, 8-5, 14-9, 11-4, etc and pay a few guys a little extra to fall, i've just created the next tyson! it also helps if the title holders at the time aren't the most talented.

Good post, you've hit the nail on the head.

The Noose

10-26-2006, 07:59 PM

the fanbase of tyson is mainly built around an image used for mass marketing. and this image is so imprinted, mainly in young people who are under 30 years of age, that it preceeds his actual fighting ability. in turn, this usually leads people to assume/believe that most any boxer outside of ali(who has another deeply imprinted image in society) can't even hold a candle to tyson.
I agree that alot of deluded fans who believe he was the greatest and untouchable have been brainwashed by his "Baddest man" image, that became his main weapon used to intimidate opponents. I think Tyson himself believed it, or played up to it, and it worked. Many opponents were scared into defeat without taking a real punch. (McNeely, Seldon, Bruno2, Golota....)

Yet id argue that wen i recently watched his whole career again, the young Tyson was incredible to watch, and i had forgot how good he was. Alot of the attention and fans he won back then cannot be faulted. They were fans of a great exciting fighter.

something that you would do well to remember - promotions. if i started out a young boxer who can punch pretty hard, give him 20 to 30 guys who have records of 3-16, 3-0, 8-5, 14-9, 11-4, etc and pay a few guys a little extra to fall, i've just created the next tyson! it also helps if the title holders at the time aren't the most talented.[/QUOTE]

If that were true then we would have seen the nxt Tyson. Especially now wen the division seems to be quite weak.
I think Tyson fought everyone he could, and lots of young fighters can just punch hard but no one since has come close to winning fights in the manner in which he did. He may have KO'd opponents with poor records, but he also did the same to good quality fighters in Berbick, Holmes, Spinks etc. He should be given some credit for not just beating them but destroying them.
Not the greatest opposition, but his KO's were somthing special.

I just think with Tyson it is easy to exaggerate his abilities and get carried away with his 'legend' and image. Yet it is just as easy to discredit him and also forget what made him so special.

Piggu

10-26-2006, 08:01 PM

no 1 cant beat tyson in his young days :boxing:

24 isn't young?

j

10-26-2006, 10:39 PM

If that were true then we would have seen the nxt Tyson. Especially now wen the division seems to be quite weak.
I think Tyson fought everyone he could, and lots of young fighters can just punch hard but no one since has come close to winning fights in the manner in which he did. He may have KO'd opponents with poor records, but he also did the same to good quality fighters in Berbick, Holmes, Spinks etc. He should be given some credit for not just beating them but destroying them.
Not the greatest opposition, but his KO's were somthing special.

I just think with Tyson it is easy to exaggerate his abilities and get carried away with his 'legend' and image. Yet it is just as easy to discredit him and also forget what made him so special.

i'd say it is fairly true. duva tried making peter out to be the next tyson. the thing is, we've already had a mike tyson. trying to recreate that image isn't going to work quite as well. plus, the fact that he's nigerian and not american plays some part i'm sure. also, we have wladimir klitschko and maybe lyakhovich - meaning that there are people more than comparable. when tyson was up and coming, there weren't a lot of boxers who were purely destroying their opponents with his consistancy or were seen as possible threats.

i don't discredit tyson and agree that he has some good victories. on the same token, he's lost when he's fought a perceived higher competition.

i just chose to focus a bit more on tyson the image as that is what predominates general opinion.

Abe Attell

10-27-2006, 03:03 AM

i'd say it is fairly true. duva tried making peter out to be the next tyson. the thing is, we've already had a mike tyson. trying to recreate that image isn't going to work quite as well. plus, the fact that he's nigerian and not american plays some part i'm sure. also, we have wladimir klitschko and maybe lyakhovich - meaning that there are people more than comparable. when tyson was up and coming, there weren't a lot of boxers who were purely destroying their opponents with his consistancy or were seen as possible threats.

i don't discredit tyson and agree that he has some good victories. on the same token, he's lost when he's fought a perceived higher competition.

i just chose to focus a bit more on tyson the image as that is what predominates general opinion.

Peter failed for a reason, he doesn't have the "SKILL" of Tyson...you forgot to mention that...You see, it is the incredible ability of a 220lb Heavyweight, to fight like a middleweight, that made Tyson a sensation...How many Heavyweights do you see can throw those fast, sharp, accurate, and powerful combinations like Tyson?
How many can bob and weave like he did, and at such a speed?

I posted the guys name before, just don't remember at the moment, but he was in Tyson's camp and said "Cus D'amato's style for Tyson was supposed to work like this: the opponent would come out, he would jab, Tyson would make him miss and throw his own punch, then the opponent tried it again (the jab) and would miss again, Tyson would throw another one of his own and land, so by now the opponent is confused as to why he is throwing and missing while Tyson is countering and landing...it is a style that is supposed to cause confussion, and this is the reason for the success"...you see, when Tyson lost this ability, to use the style the way it was intended, he lost the "invincibility"...Tyson needed his opponents to punch so that he could counter from their openings...It is Skill that scares people...****, Tyson wasn't even that muscualr compared to a guy like Bruno, not to mention Mike isn't even 6'0 feet tall.

The Noose

10-27-2006, 03:06 PM

i'd say it is fairly true. duva tried making peter out to be the next tyson. the thing is, we've already had a mike tyson. trying to recreate that image isn't going to work quite as well. plus, the fact that he's nigerian and not american plays some part i'm sure. also, we have wladimir klitschko and maybe lyakhovich - meaning that there are people more than comparable. when tyson was up and coming, there weren't a lot of boxers who were purely destroying their opponents with his consistancy or were seen as possible threats.

i don't discredit tyson and agree that he has some good victories. on the same token, he's lost when he's fought a perceived higher competition.

i just chose to focus a bit more on tyson the image as that is what predominates general opinion.

Its a very interesting subject. Yet id say people now are crying out for another Tyson. The fact that Tyson has already been and gone doesnt mean people want to see somthing new, or that there would be less interest.
Maybe Tyson was in a way another verson of Liston, or Dempsy. And in my opinion at first wasnt just a fabricated image. He was the real deal. (ironic pun! lol)

He did lose to fighters considered higher competion, yet many fighters have lost to underdogs. But with Tyson these loses burst the invincibility bubble, and his reputation was crushed.
Plus as Abe Attell said, although his technique and real skill disappered, his image was hyped up by the media and his loses against Holyfield and Lewis were made out to be huge defeats. When in fact without technique and his original skills, Tyson was nothing more than a big puncher who was not much of a challenge to those top quality fighters.

At his best he was not just a big puncher. He was a smart skillful fighter, with great timing. He knew what punch to throw and when to throw it. He did things many of the best fighters simply could never do.

I could go on, but im disappearing up Tysons arse.

Krucial

10-27-2006, 03:33 PM

yall is pretty crazy
n i seen a documentary on Tyson n he was stressed for that buster douglas fight
if he wasnt he would dropped em in 6-7 rounds easily
considering how he dropped em b4 he got dropped himself
Robin n her mom was on mikes ass n he was frustrated
all was on busters mind was winnin that title...he was more focused than tyson
n come on
lennox lewis?
that fight happened too late
wasnt it proposed in 99'?
the only person ill give credit for beatin Tyson is Holyfeild
both were game for that fight
but that happened kinda late too....holyfeild was gon fight Tyson b4 he went to jail for rape(now how aint miketyson under stress n frustration?)
now wen he was young(18-23) he was the real deal
he was the ****
noone could **** wit em
not holmes or nunna da top HW's at the time

mu****as gotta stop hatin on Tyson
realize that he was invincible at 1 time

NJFighter91

10-27-2006, 03:38 PM

yo yo gansta...tyson is ma homie fo real

+= El Jefe=+

10-27-2006, 03:42 PM

no 1 cant beat tyson in his young days :boxing:

James Buster Douglas.....

Oasis_Lad

10-27-2006, 03:43 PM

yall is pretty crazy
n i seen a documentary on Tyson n he was stressed for that buster douglas fight
if he wasnt he would dropped em in 6-7 rounds easily
considering how he dropped em b4 he got dropped himself
Robin n her mom was on mikes ass n he was frustrated
all was on busters mind was winnin that title...he was more focused than tyson
n come on
lennox lewis?
that fight happened too late
wasnt it proposed in 99'?
the only person ill give credit for beatin Tyson is Holyfeild
both were game for that fight
but that happened kinda late too....holyfeild was gon fight Tyson b4 he went to jail for rape(now how aint miketyson under stress n frustration?)
now wen he was young(18-23) he was the real deal
he was the ****
noone could **** wit em
not holmes or nunna da top HW's at the time

mu****as gotta stop hatin on Tyson
realize that he was invincible at 1 time

man get real no one is invincible and tyson in his prime could have been beaten by a number of fighters

Krucial

10-27-2006, 04:08 PM

man get real no one is invincible and tyson in his prime could have been beaten by a number of fighters
yes he can
but it didnt happen
douglas only did it
but im standin by my reasons 4 that
cuz i know its true
if i had a naggin ***** n her mama on my ass 4 my $ i'd be stressed out
who knows how many tears mike shed knowin that da ***** only wanted his $
but he's the ass who loved her so much
i'd **** Robin too tho
but he aint think she's b a golddigger even tho she had $

Southpaw Stinger

10-27-2006, 04:26 PM

yes he can
but it didnt happen
douglas only did it
but im standin by my reasons 4 that
cuz i know its true
if i had a naggin ***** n her mama on my ass 4 my $ i'd be stressed out
who knows how many tears mike shed knowin that da ***** only wanted his $
but he's the ass who loved her so much
i'd **** Robin too tho
but he aint think she's b a golddigger even tho she had $

I don't rmember Tyson beatin anyone good. And along comes Douglas and knocks him out.... Tyson is very far from invicible.

cyberthugpatrol

10-27-2006, 04:31 PM

no 1 cant beat tyson in his young days :boxing:

nobody.

Iron Mike Tyson kills Ali

Iron Mike Tyson annihilates Foreman

Iron Mike Tyson destroys Liston

can nobody even come close to a prime Iron Mike Tyson

Southpaw Stinger

10-27-2006, 04:41 PM

nobody.

Iron Mike Tyson kills Ali

Iron Mike Tyson annihilates Foreman

Iron Mike Tyson destroys Liston

can nobody even come close to a prime Iron Mike Tyson

:nonono: :nonono:

Yogi

10-27-2006, 04:46 PM

Umm...

Great thread? :thinking:

Kid Achilles

10-27-2006, 04:55 PM

Awesome, another "Tyson was invincible" thread. Can't have too many of those.

Southpaw Stinger

10-27-2006, 04:59 PM

Awesome, another "Tyson was invincible" thread. Can't have too many of those.

Indeed. The retards eyes shine whenever threads like these show. The rest of us just look in disapointment. :nonono:

Abe Attell

10-27-2006, 05:44 PM

nobody.

Iron Mike Tyson kills Ali

Iron Mike Tyson annihilates Foreman

Iron Mike Tyson destroys Liston

can nobody even come close to a prime Iron Mike Tyson

Fighters are human, they all can be beaten

Southpaw Stinger

10-27-2006, 05:46 PM

Fighters are human, they all can be beaten

Fighters are human, but cyberthugpatrol is not.

The Noose

10-27-2006, 05:50 PM

The only thing worst than somone talking **** is people responding to it.

Krucial

10-27-2006, 11:20 PM

I don't rmember Tyson beatin anyone good. And along comes Douglas and knocks him out.... Tyson is very far from invicible.
i never said he was invincible dude
he was just a fuccin beast

and the people you listed are average fighters who looked half decent in a weak era

The Noose

10-28-2006, 12:45 AM

yall is pretty crazy

mu****as gotta stop hatin on Tyson
realize that he was invincible at 1 time

i never said he was invincible dude
he was just a fuccin beast

Yea, u did say he was invincible.:owned:

RockyMarcianofan00

10-28-2006, 01:02 AM

Ali would try and box Tyson and assuming we're talking about Prime Tyson I could see Tyson getting on the inside and giving Ali a beating, but this could go either way.

Foreman, I'm almost positive would beat Tyson, this would come down to who can brawl/hit harder and that is Foreman. Tyson would try to get inside and Foreman would just go to work.

Holyfeild will always stand a good chance against Tyson just because of his tools however Tyson at the same time could dominate Holyfeild in his prime so this is tougher to call.

Frazier would have trouble with Tyson early in the fight but landing a few good punches and staying off the canvas, I could see Frazier taking it.

Lennox Lewis always has his height and reach to aid him however I could see a prime Tyson dominating Lewis with "relative" ease. It probably wouldn't be a First Round Knock Out but I don't think it would go a full 12.

Liston would give Tyson trouble just because Liston hit decently hard and had a very long reach, especially for his size. However I could see Tyson getting to Liston, on the other hand I could also see Liston getting the better of Tyson.

Marciano could in fact beat Tyson. Marciano would turn Tyson's whole body and arms into targets and given his superb Stamina and punching power I could see Tyson getting tired and just getting pummeled. But given Tyson's speed I could also see Tyson TKO'ing Marciano.

I may seem alittle on the fence with a few but you can never accurately call the outcome of a fight (more or less).

Krucial

10-28-2006, 04:25 AM

i agree with this guy above^^^^^

Southpaw Stinger

10-28-2006, 06:07 AM

you do? you were sayin the exact opposite before.

M26

10-28-2006, 07:13 AM

The fighters that WOULD stop Mike Tyson:

1. Joe Louis
He would have all the advantages to stop a prime Tyson. He had handspeed and reflexes that equaled Tysons, his power would be enough to discourage him, and his skill was far superior.

Some might say his chin wouldn't stand up to Tysons raw power, but I believe it would. Louis' chin was not soft at all. He was only kayoed twice, the first time after getting hit flush on the chin about 50-60 times, the second time as an old man by the hands of Marciano. He surely could take a punch.

I see Tyson running after Louis, only to be tied up and countered - Tyson has always been fairly easy to tie up, this was one of his drawbacks, and Louis would take full advantage of it. After a few rounds of being held and punched, punched and held, I see Tyson getting frustrated and unfocused. This is when Louis goes to work and starts battering a fading Mike.

Joe Louis by ko10.

2. Muhammad Ali
This fight would be over before it ever started. Ali would have a fieldday humiliating Tyson at the prefight conference, and I can see a very pissed off Tyson entering the ring come fightnight. This would not help him how ever, as Ali would dance circles around Tyson, tie him up when necessary and beat him to the punch all night long. I can't for the life of me ever imagine Tyson defeating Ali.

Muhammad Ali by late tko.

3. George Foreman
It's pretty simple, really. Two men runs at eachother and starts throwing bombs. The bigger, stronger and more powerful man usually wins. Tyson was faster, and he might be able to come in under Foremans arms and connect with a few hard shots. How ever, I cannot see him stopping the ironchinned Foreman, and sooner or later he would get caught with one of those massive uppercuts. Tyson would be on the canvas for keeps inside 4-5 rounds.

George Foreman by ko5.

M26

10-28-2006, 07:14 AM

The fighters that PROBABLY would stop MikeTyson

1. Sonny Liston
Definitely a man that could stop Tyson. Size, reach and skill all go to Liston. Speed goes to Tyson.

They both had tons of power, a solid chin, mediocre stamina and a questionable heart. A prime Tyson probably defeats the version of Liston that was fought Clay/Ali, but the 1960-62 version could very well prove to be more than a handful for "Iron Mike".

2. Larry Holmes
Holmes got beaten badly in 1988 by a prime Tyson. This is not to say the outcome would be the same if it were the 1978-82 version of Holmes that stepped into that ring.

Holmes had all the tools to stop Tyson. Skill, size, chin, stamina and heart. He had one of the best left jabs in heavyweight history, and could also punch pretty hard when needed.

I would favor Holmes in this fight, but only by a very small margin.

M26

10-28-2006, 07:14 AM

The fighters that COULD stop Mike Tyson

1. Jack Johnson
I don't think he would stop Tyson, as I figure his chin would fail this frightening test. Still, Johnson was a large man with tremendous defensive ability. In fact, one might argue Johnson to be the best defensive boxer of all time. With this in mind, I can see Johnson feinting, blocking and holding Tyson early on, to win by decision.

My money would be on Tyson though. Too fast, powerful and explosive for Johnson.

2. Jack Dempsey
Tysons boxingidol. I once read somewhere that "Jack Dempsey was everything Tyson ever wanted to be". I agree. Dempsey was a REAL toughguy with tons of heart. Adding his chin, his skill and his raw power, you have a fighting machine. Tyson would have the edge because of his sizeadvantage, as this would infact be a head-to-head clash between a cruiserweight and a heavyweight. Adding the fact that Tyson probably was a bit faster and maybe even more powerful, I would have to go with Tyson to stop the brave Dempsey.

How ever, a Dempsey win would not surprise me very much. This is actually a close call. P4P there is no contest - Dempsey would have Tyson for breakfast if he weighed in at 200lbs or above.

3. Gene Tunney
It is possible that this defensive marvel could withstand Tysons early attack to win by decision. Tunney moved very well and was fast on his feet. He also had enough power in his right hand to slow his foe down.

Still, considering the fact that he was close to being stopped against an over-the-hill Jack Dempsey, a prime 22-year old Mike Tyson would be a very dangerous opponent for the much lighter Tunney. Most likely Tyson would be overwhelming Tunney to win by early kayo. But I still say it is possible for Tunney to win this if he manages to get by the first 5-6 rounds or so.

4. Rocky Marciano
The Brockton Blockbuster was smaller than Tyson, but I say he stands a decent chance of winning this. Tysons style is best suited for opponents taller than himself. He moves side to side, getting under his opponents jab to unleash that thundering left hook or that wicked right uppercut. Against Marciano, he would face someone shorter than himself. Tyson would not get under Marcianos arms. There are no arms to get under. Only a short, stocky man with a solid chin, a lions heart, more stamina than an african longdistance runner and power to die for. To hurt Marciano, Tyson would have to face being hurt himself.

If Tyson is to win this one, he must put Marciano away early. I am not sure he can. Marciano could take a punch better than most, and he definitely could return fire. I can see Marciano surviving by coming in low, protecting his chin and simply hanging on for dear life as Tyson finishes off his early assault. As the fight goes on, Tyson would fade as he always did. Marciano was more like Joe Frazier; he warmed up to the task and got more busy and dangerous as the fight wore on. He also maintained that incredible power to the very end.

I have a difficult time deciding the outcome of this fight. Tyson was the bigger, faster and more skilled fighter. This is usually a safe sign of victory as I mentioned above regarding Tyson-Foreman. Still, Marciano had heart and stamina, plus an awkward style for Tyson. Hmm.

Anyway, Rocky Marciano COULD stop Mike Tyson, of that I am sure.

5. Joe Frazier
Much the same arguments here as with Rocky Marciano. I have no problem envisioning Frazier working his way past the first half of the fight to win by decision or late stoppage. Tyson was not in his right element having his foe come after him, as this pretty much contradicts his style of fighting. And forget about the Foreman fight. This was not a prime Frazier, and Tyson was never George Foreman.

Still, Tyson was a very fast starter, and his explosive power could prove to be enough to stop this fight early. A tough call.

The Noose

10-28-2006, 11:58 AM

Good posts.
Id agree with most of it, but id give Tyson more of a chance against most of them. Like Holmes for example.
Eventhough Holmes wasnt near his best wen they fought, he still knew wat he was doing but couldnt keep the young Tyson away.
Plus the initial punch that knocked Holmes down could have KO'd most fighters, even Holmes at his best IMO.

Southpaw Stinger

10-28-2006, 12:00 PM

Plus the initial punch that knocked Holmes down could have KO'd most fighters, even Holmes at his best IMO.

Even when the Shavers right couldn't?

The Noose

10-28-2006, 01:25 PM

Even when the Shavers right couldn't?

Ok, u got me. Forgot about that one. But ive never seen that fight.
Tyson was a much better finisher. So i still say Tyson could still have KO'd Holmes.

Southpaw Stinger

10-28-2006, 01:55 PM

Ok, u got me. Forgot about that one. But ive never seen that fight.
Tyson was a much better finisher. So i still say Tyson could still have KO'd Holmes.

I think Tyson could still have got a tko over Holmes but it would be through the use of combos, not a one punch deal.

And I've put the Shavers vs Holmes fight in another thread if you want to watch it.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93955

Verstyle

10-28-2006, 01:57 PM

Ali would try and box Tyson and assuming we're talking about Prime Tyson I could see Tyson getting on the inside and giving Ali a beating, but this could go either way.

Foreman, I'm almost positive would beat Tyson, this would come down to who can brawl/hit harder and that is Foreman. Tyson would try to get inside and Foreman would just go to work.
Holyfeild will always stand a good chance against Tyson just because of his tools however Tyson at the same time could dominate Holyfeild in his prime so this is tougher to call.

Frazier would have trouble with Tyson early in the fight but landing a few good punches and staying off the canvas, I could see Frazier taking it.

Lennox Lewis always has his height and reach to aid him however I could see a prime Tyson dominating Lewis with "relative" ease. It probably wouldn't be a First Round Knock Out but I don't think it would go a full 12.

Liston would give Tyson trouble just because Liston hit decently hard and had a very long reach, especially for his size. However I could see Tyson getting to Liston, on the other hand I could also see Liston getting the better of Tyson.

Marciano could in fact beat Tyson. Marciano would turn Tyson's whole body and arms into targets and given his superb Stamina and punching power I could see Tyson getting tired and just getting pummeled. But given Tyson's speed I could also see Tyson TKO'ing Marciano.

I may seem alittle on the fence with a few but you can never accurately call the outcome of a fight (more or less).

in the bolded part. a prime tyson was not known for staying inside and punching, a PRIME tyson goes in quick with a jab and throws a combo and get the back outta range after that,if u dont believe me watch the videos.now if tyson did stay in foreman would have enough time to pumple him and probably win.

and with marciano once again tyson would have to stay inside for all this to happen and tysons stamina in his prime wasnt a job neither.

now tyson vs.frazier would be a good match i wouldnt know who would win that one with frazier would bob and weave threw tysons punchs.

and for liston yeah he had reach and so did alot of other opponents tyson fought, once again tyson stays outta range and when the time comes go in and counter him with a combo and get the **** outta there and keep doing it over and over again.

butterfly1964

10-28-2006, 02:11 PM

and for liston yeah he had reach and so did alot of other opponents tyson fought, once again tyson stays outta range and when the time comes go in and counter him with a combo and get the **** outta there and keep doing it over and over again.

Did Tyson's opponents have reach and power at the same time? Enough said.

catskills23

10-28-2006, 06:43 PM

i dont think anyone could of beaten prime tyson . Nobody could fight an offensive fight with tyson and not end up in the canvas . Tyson just had too much power.

Oasis_Lad

10-28-2006, 06:44 PM

i dont think anyone could of beaten prime tyson . Nobody could fight an offensive fight with tyson and not end up in the canvas . Tyson just had too much power.

sure even superman couldn't have beat a prime tyson

BlockBuster

10-28-2006, 07:31 PM

Can somebody name 5 good fighters that Tyson beat? When I say good I don't mean Marvis Frazier good, thats not good.

Southpaw Stinger

10-28-2006, 07:36 PM

Can somebody name 5 good fighters that Tyson beat? When I say good I don't mean Marvis Frazier good, thats not good.

Very hard to do... i'll get back to you!!

Kid Achilles

10-28-2006, 08:06 PM

Tyson had a tremendous amount of talent and good heart but he did not have heart at the level Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, or Frazier displayed it. His so called lack of heart is his only shortcoming, and it's not that he didn't have heart, it's just that the heart he had did not match his insane physical talent. A guy with Marciano's heart would never snap and bite an ear vs. Holyfield or lay down vs. McBride, not even if he was 86 years old and getting his ass kicked.

Still Tyson has more heart than some fighters, and a lot more than the average poster on this forum. He definitely did not wilt at the first sign of resistance like some say, but to be fair he never got up from a knockdown to win a fight. In every fight he was knocked down in, he lost.

I think Tyson is without a doubt a top fifteen heavyweight of all time (impressive considering how many thousands of heavyweights there've been) and if you want to put him at 9 or 10 I won't get pissed.

One thing he is not is a pushoever and in any of these fights he gives these guys (even Ali) a tough fight even if he loses. He has a puncher's chance against just about anyone in history. That kind of speed, power, and pinpoint accuracy makes him dangerous to any man.

Verstyle

10-28-2006, 08:07 PM

Did Tyson's opponents have reach and power at the same time? Enough said.

alot of them did dumbass. get your ****in facts straight before coming in here blowing up ali's opponents like u always do. hell according to u henry cooper can probably beat tyson. and it was quoted by jim lampley as him saying "so say pinklons jab is only second to sonny liston" and since dundee was his trainer and former trainer of ali,in which fought liston then im pretty sure that was correct.:owned:

butterfly1964

10-29-2006, 12:23 AM

alot of them did dumbass. get your ****in facts straight before coming in here blowing up ali's opponents like u always do. hell according to u henry cooper can probably beat tyson. and it was quoted by jim lampley as him saying "so say pinklons jab is only second to sonny liston" and since dundee was his trainer and former trainer of ali,in which fought liston then im pretty sure that was correct.:owned:

Buster ... and he did ... aftyer that he got ktfo by evander and his career became a mess..............

poor guy he had his moments though

dansweeney

10-29-2006, 01:27 AM

no 1 cant beat tyson in his young days :boxing:

most people are revisionist historians, tyson had at worst in his prime a 50/50 shot at beating any heavyweight fighter that ever lived. i know because i have his whole collection of fights,. i guarantee this. the 20 year old tyson was a totally different animal than any other version of tyson

catskills23

10-29-2006, 02:21 PM

Buster ... and he did ... aftyer that he got ktfo by evander and his career became a mess..............

poor guy he had his moments though

And the shot that tyson knocked buster down with was a glancing shot. That was not the full power of tyson . Buster said this himself in an interview . I cant understand why people think tysons power is overated . A lot of the guys tyson knocked out such as saverese,mcneely, douglas and mathis was done so without tyson using his full power. Tyson and the commentators mentioned this.

Brockton Lip

10-29-2006, 02:57 PM

I cant understand why people think tysons power is overated .

Because people say he is the hardest hitting heavyweight of all time. Foreman, Marciano, and Shavers hit harder to name some.

Verstyle

10-29-2006, 03:16 PM

Because people say he is the hardest hitting heavyweight of all time. Foreman, Marciano, and Shavers hit harder to name some.

wait wait wait wait wait. mariciano shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit noooooooooo

catskills23

10-29-2006, 03:28 PM

Because people say he is the hardest hitting heavyweight of all time. Foreman, Marciano, and Shavers hit harder to name some.

Marciano no way . His punch only measured 1000 psi . Shavers and foreman undoubtedly had much more mass behind their punches but tyson had much more speed . power= force * acceleration . So if your talking about power in a scientific sense tyson hit equally hard if not harder than shavers . To use analogy tyson punches were like a car hitting a wall at 150 mph while foreman and shavers punches were like a truck hitting a wall at 50 mph . The faster car would probably generate more force than the heavier slower truck .

Kid Achilles

10-29-2006, 03:30 PM

Tyson was not three times faster than Foreman or Shavers Catskills. More like a car going 70 mph vs. a truck going 50 mph. Who hits harder? Doesn't really matter cause you're ****ing dead either way.

butterfly1964

10-29-2006, 09:08 PM

Tyson was not three times faster than Foreman or Shavers Catskills. More like a car going 70 mph vs. a truck going 50 mph. Who hits harder? Doesn't really matter cause you're ****ing dead either way.

Good point.

Southpaw Stinger

10-29-2006, 09:10 PM

Marciano no way . His punch only measured 1000 psi . Shavers and foreman undoubtedly had much more mass behind their punches but tyson had much more speed . power= force * acceleration . So if your talking about power in a scientific sense tyson hit equally hard if not harder than shavers . To use analogy tyson punches were like a car hitting a wall at 150 mph while foreman and shavers punches were like a truck hitting a wall at 50 mph . The faster car would probably generate more force than the heavier slower truck .

opinions are like *******s.... everyones got one. :ugh:

butterfly1964

10-29-2006, 09:13 PM

To use analogy tyson punches were like a car hitting a wall at 150 mph while foreman and shavers punches were like a truck hitting a wall at 50 mph . The faster car would probably generate more force than the heavier slower truck .

And Muhammad Ali's punches were like a motorcycle going 300 miles an hour!:D

Krucial

10-30-2006, 03:27 AM

ali can take a hit pretty damn good
he could punch alright
he had fast hands n threw combos
ducked-dodged-blocked-parried n weaved

he can beat Tyson

j

10-30-2006, 09:02 PM

Marciano no way . His punch only measured 1000 psi . Shavers and foreman undoubtedly had much more mass behind their punches but tyson had much more speed . power= force * acceleration . So if your talking about power in a scientific sense tyson hit equally hard if not harder than shavers . To use analogy tyson punches were like a car hitting a wall at 150 mph while foreman and shavers punches were like a truck hitting a wall at 50 mph . The faster car would probably generate more force than the heavier slower truck

where did you get your so-called scientific analysis of a punch from? because it is flat out wrong.

Verstyle

10-30-2006, 09:11 PM

ali can take a hit pretty damn good
he could punch alright
he had fast hands n threw combos
ducked-dodged-blocked-parried n weaved

he can beat Tyson

i would have loved to see what he woulda did when tyson cuts off the ring and start firing his combos.remember tyson was pinpoint with his shots and was patient unlike foreman

Cutthroat

10-30-2006, 09:40 PM

where did you get your so-called scientific analysis of a punch from? because it is flat out wrong.

Marciano only punched 1,000 psi. Foreman on the other hand was measured at 1,600 psi. along with shavers being around 1,600.

Those are facts and not opinions.

Kid Achilles

10-30-2006, 10:25 PM

Show me the evidence that Foreman hit at 16,000 PSI. I do not believe it.

Verstyle

10-30-2006, 10:41 PM

Show me the evidence that Foreman hit at 16,000 PSI. I do not believe it.

hell,i dont believe 16,000 neither.:banana:

butterfly1964

10-30-2006, 11:16 PM

Show me the evidence that Foreman hit at 16,000 PSI. I do not believe it.

He said 1600.

butterfly1964

10-30-2006, 11:19 PM

i would have loved to see what he woulda did when tyson cuts off the ring and start firing his combos.remember tyson was pinpoint with his shots and was patient unlike foreman

I wonder what Tyson would do when Ali starting ripping rapid-fire combinations off Tyson's skull, and then confuse him with the Ali shuffle, and then some more quick hits. Ali was probably the most accurate heavyweight in history.

Verstyle

10-30-2006, 11:22 PM

I wonder what Tyson would do when Ali starting ripping rapid-fire combinations off Tyson's skull, and then confuse him with the Ali shuffle, and then some more quick hits. Ali was probably the most accurate heavyweight in history.

tyson wouldnt be that close in range for all that to happen silly boy. tyson is patient before he makes his move in the inside.he does his damage and gets outta the punchers punching range. so ali throwing combos is not likely. 1 or 2 hits at a time?yes

butterfly1964

10-30-2006, 11:37 PM

tyson wouldnt be that close in range for all that to happen silly boy. tyson is patient before he makes his move in the inside.he does his damage and gets outta the punchers punching range. so ali throwing combos is not likely. 1 or 2 hits at a time?yes

Well, Ali has a 12inch reach advantage, so he could throw three and four punch combinations, if he judges the distance correctly. Also, if Tyson got in, Ali would easily tie him up. No one pushed Ali around in the clinches.

blockhead

10-30-2006, 11:45 PM

prime jo louis could have
prime marciano could have
prime ali could have
big george could have

Verstyle

10-30-2006, 11:48 PM

Well, Ali has a 12inch reach advantage, so he could throw three and four punch combinations, if he judges the distance correctly. Also, if Tyson got in, Ali would easily tie him up. No one pushed Ali around in the clinches.

when tyson gets in he throws combos and gets outta there as i stated.he wouldnt be in there long enough for ali to continue to tie him up.and we see how fast tyson threw his combos in his prime. and for the 12inch reach? ok. just another step tyson has to go back to get outta range and we know ali doesnt fight going foward. damn im good:boxing:

Verstyle

10-30-2006, 11:49 PM

prime jo louis could have
prime marciano could have
prime ali could have
big george could have

how many ppl fought like tyson that george has fought? none. so saying george would take him is down right funny. watch the holyfield vs. foreman fight buddy then holla at me

butterfly1964

10-30-2006, 11:52 PM

when tyson gets in he throws combos and gets outta there as i stated.he wouldnt be in there long enough for ali to continue to tie him up.and we see how fast tyson threw his combos in his prime. and for the 12inch reach? ok. just another step tyson has to go back to get outta range and we know ali doesnt fight going foward. damn im good:boxing:

He's not gonna get in and out so fast that he wouldn't catch an Ali right hand. Ali punches so fast, sometimes it's hard to see the punches. Ali knew what he was doing. And when Tyson moved in, Ali would move back and avoid the punches. Remember Ali knew how to get out of range, too.

butterfly1964

10-30-2006, 11:53 PM

how many ppl fought like tyson that george has fought? none. so saying george would take him is down right funny. watch the holyfield vs. foreman fight buddy then holla at me

I don't know. Louis did not demonstrate the ability to handle a swarming fighter, and I'm not just talking about Marciano. Even in his prime he struggled with guys like Tony Galento, Arturo Godoy, and Tommy Farr. Galento almost beat Louis in their fight. He stunned and staggered him often, and even floored the bomber. The only things that saved Louis was the fact that Galento was slow, so he was an easy target, he didn't move his head like Tyson did, so Louis was able to land jabs at will, and he wasn't a great finisher. If Tyson had Louis in the same trouble Galento had him in, then I'm pretty sure Mike would finish the job. Louis never had a great chin, and that is showed in a lot of his fights. I shudder to think what a fast, skilled, powerful, and durable technician like Tyson would do to him.

he didnt fight like tyson.ahahaha how many times do u see tyson bob and weave like that besides the tyson vs. green fight. and only throw a 1 deminsional shot which is the left hook. plus frazier purposly went into the fire which is ali's punchs. u dont see a prime tyson doing that,reason why he had no marks on his face during his prime cause he wasnt really in ne danger

damn im good tonight:boxing:

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 12:27 AM

he didnt fight like tyson.ahahaha how many times do u see tyson bob and weave like that besides the tyson vs. green fight. and only throw a 1 deminsional shot which is the left hook. plus frazier purposly went into the fire which is ali's punchs. u dont see a prime tyson doing that,reason why he had no marks on his face during his prime cause he wasnt really in ne danger

damn im good tonight:boxing:

Anyway, the only way Tyson could beat Foreman is to hit him, and he will have to get in to do that, and sooner or later, foreman will catch him, and keep catching him, until he overpowers Tyson, stuns Tyson, hurts Tyson, then finishes Tyson.:dead1:

Verstyle

10-31-2006, 12:31 AM

according to u he has a glass chin. how many ppl that were good did foreman hurt like that? and yeah tyson does have to go in. but why in the hell do u think tyson always has his hands to his ears like ear muffs when going in for? tyson aint dumb he doesnt wanna get pumpled with hooks.and once again only the tyson from 90s and beyond stayed in there and traded. how many opponents then foreman face that hit and got the **** outta there that he beat?

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 12:33 AM

how many opponents then foreman face that hit and got the **** outta there that he beat?

according to u he has a glass chin. how many ppl that were good did foreman hurt like that? and yeah tyson does have to go in. but why in the hell do u think tyson always has his hands to his ears like ear muffs when going in for? tyson aint dumb he doesnt wanna get pumpled with hooks.and once again only the tyson from 90s and beyond stayed in there and traded. how many opponents then foreman face that hit and got the **** outta there that he beat?

Like it or not, Tyson is not a stick and mover, so boring in like he does, whether he's trying to avoid shots as he comes in, he still will get hit, even if it's with glancing blows, but we all know even glancing blows from Foreman are pretty powerful. No, Tyson doesn't have a glass chin, but neither is Frazier's and he still put him away. I'm not saying it will be just as easy as Frazier, but it still won't be too hard for Foreman to wear Tyson down by neutralyzing the effect of his lunges.

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 12:37 AM

ok, that actually had fast had speed or should i say tyson-like speed

Norton had very fast hands. He was able to OUTPOINT Muhammmad Ali for God sakes.:rolleyes:

Verstyle

10-31-2006, 12:38 AM

Norton had very fast hands. He was able to OUTPOINT Muhammmad Ali for God sakes.:rolleyes:

Like it or not, Tyson is not a stick and mover, so boring in like he does, whether he's trying to avoid shots as he comes in, he still will get hit, even if it's with glancing blows, but we all know even glancing blows from Foreman are pretty powerful. No, Tyson doesn't have a glass chin, but neither is Frazier's and he still put him away. I'm not saying it will be just as easy as Frazier, but it still won't be too hard for Foreman to wear Tyson down by neutralyzing the effect of his lunges.

tyson didnt lunge that much in his prime.and for all the ppl that survived foreman then what,they have a better chin then tyson? and yeah tyson still gets hit,but we see how slow foreman throws punchs,tyson would be in and out quicker then a black kid with a back pack at a quickie mart

tyson didnt lunge that much in his prime.and for all the ppl that survived foreman then what,they have a better chin then tyson? and yeah tyson still gets hit,but we see how slow foreman throws punchs,tyson would be in and out quicker then a black kid with a back pack at a quickie mart

Foreman is not slow. Not as fast as Tyson, but Foreman wouldn't need to land that much to win. It's not like Tyson would be running from Foreman and that George would have to chase Tyson down.

Verstyle

10-31-2006, 12:49 AM

And your point is? Who did Tyson face that had Foreman-like power?

ahaha. dont switch it up. i asked u a direct question. sooooooooo r u going to answer it or just shut the **** up.:banana:

Verstyle

10-31-2006, 12:50 AM

Foreman is not slow. Not as fast as Tyson, but Foreman wouldn't need to land that much to win. It's not like Tyson would be running from Foreman and that George would have to chase Tyson down.

once again your overrating ali's opponents. your makin it sound like 1 hit from big george and your literally dead.

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 12:50 AM

ahaha. dont switch it up. i asked u a direct question. sooooooooo r u going to answer it or just shut the **** up.:banana:

In terms of speed? Well besides Ali, nobody. Now answer my question.

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 12:51 AM

once again your overrating ali's opponents. your makin it sound like 1 hit from big george and your literally dead.

No, but I've seen Tyson hurt from lesser punchers than Foreman. Bruno, Ruddock, even Holyfield. I'm sure if Foreman got a good shot in, he would hurt Tyson as well.

Verstyle

10-31-2006, 12:53 AM

In terms of speed? Well besides Ali, nobody. Now answer my question.

no1.which is a easy answer not relating to what we were talking about. u just felt the pressure and had the need to turn it around

Verstyle

10-31-2006, 12:54 AM

No, but I've seen Tyson hurt from lesser punchers than Foreman. Bruno, Ruddock, even Holyfield. I'm sure if Foreman got a good shot in, he would hurt Tyson as well.

all who threw faster then foreman.

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 12:55 AM

all who threw faster then foreman.

Not Bruno.

Verstyle

10-31-2006, 12:56 AM

Not Bruno.

ok they were about the same. but that wasnt no prime tyson though,he lost a step or 2.

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 12:56 AM

no1.which is a easy answer not relating to what we were talking about. u just felt the pressure and had the need to turn it around

It is relating because you asked if Foreman fougth anyone with tyson-like handspeed, and so I asked you about tyson fighting anyone with foreman-like power, cause if he didn't, then you know if Foreman hit him, he could be in serious trouble.

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 12:57 AM

ok they were about the same. but that wasnt no prime tyson though,he lost a step or 2.

The first fight, too.

Verstyle

10-31-2006, 12:57 AM

It is relating because you asked if Foreman fougth anyone with tyson-like handspeed, and so I asked you about tyson fighting anyone with foreman-like power, cause if he didn't, then you know if Foreman hit him, he could be in serious trouble.

naw i think u just got cornered and u had to fire back at something

Verstyle

10-31-2006, 12:58 AM

The first fight, too.

that was the 1 i was refering to

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 12:59 AM

naw i think u just got cornered and u had to fire back at something

No, you got cornered when I asked you about Foreman's power compared to Tyson's opponents.:cool:

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 12:59 AM

that was the 1 i was refering to

Well, Tyson was prime there, IMO. He just didn't train that hard.

Verstyle

10-31-2006, 01:00 AM

No, you got cornered when I asked you about Foreman's power compared to Tyson's opponents.:cool:

I ASKED U THE ****IN QUESTION FIRST!!!

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 01:02 AM

I ASKED U THE ****IN QUESTION FIRST!!!

And I answered it. And my question was like yours, only in reverse in the comparison to tyson's speed, compared to foreman's power.

Verstyle

10-31-2006, 01:03 AM

And I answered it. And my question was like yours, only in reverse in the comparison to tyson's speed, compared to foreman's power.

u asked cause i cornered u with a question u didnt know.ahaha

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 01:06 AM

u asked cause i cornered u with a question u didnt know.ahaha

Ok, fine. But that still doesn't mean that Tyson would beat Foreman.

Verstyle

10-31-2006, 01:17 AM

Ok, fine. But that still doesn't mean that Tyson would beat Foreman.

i guess. well ne way we can discuss this tomorrow. i got work

sleazyfellow

10-31-2006, 02:43 AM

tyson COULD win against foreman, just not the young one who always pushed his opponents away and bullied them around, itd be another fraizer/foreman blowout kinda fight, the old one actually boxed and was alot slower than the first career, so thats the one tyson actually had a chance against but he still didnt want no part of him

Pork Chop

10-31-2006, 01:49 PM

Watching 1969 Frazier vs Quarry, I think either of those 2 guys could've given Iron Mike something to think about.
I'm a little suprised to see both guys absent from most peoples' lists, or even a "maybe".

Quarry made a habit of winning as the underdog and I think Frazier would've willed himself to kill Tyson after what happened to Marvis- never downplay the daddy angle.

In 1969 Frazier had 2 hands and threw combos, those 2 things were distinctly absent from the Foreman blowouts, not that the outcome would've been THAT different. The other thing everyone forgets about the first Frazier-Foreman fight is that the ref stopped it with Joe on his feet- he got knocked down a lot but kept getting back up.
Yeah, the second time they fought (if you can call it that), the knockdown was more decisive, but Joe still got back up.

Mike Tyson couldn't get up for a fight while having personal problems, Frazier fought many fights blind in one eye; heart-wise there's no comparison.

Tyson couldn't knock out Bonecrusher Smith, a man KOd by Joe Bugner, Brian Nielsen, Razor Ruddock, Larry Holmes, and James Broad. He couldn't knock out James Tillis - a guy KOd 3 times before Tyson even got to him.

How's he going to automatically KO Frazier; a guy really only KOd by one of the top 3 all-time power hitters (using a style tailor made to beat him)?

K-DOGG

10-31-2006, 06:19 PM

Watching 1969 Frazier vs Quarry, I think either of those 2 guys could've given Iron Mike something to think about.
I'm a little suprised to see both guys absent from most peoples' lists, or even a "maybe".

Quarry made a habit of winning as the underdog and I think Frazier would've willed himself to kill Tyson after what happened to Marvis- never downplay the daddy angle.

In 1969 Frazier had 2 hands and threw combos, those 2 things were distinctly absent from the Foreman blowouts, not that the outcome would've been THAT different. The other thing everyone forgets about the first Frazier-Foreman fight is that the ref stopped it with Joe on his feet- he got knocked down a lot but kept getting back up.
Yeah, the second time they fought (if you can call it that), the knockdown was more decisive, but Joe still got back up.

Mike Tyson couldn't get up for a fight while having personal problems, Frazier fought many fights blind in one eye; heart-wise there's no comparison.

Tyson couldn't knock out Bonecrusher Smith, a man KOd by Joe Bugner, Brian Nielsen, Razor Ruddock, Larry Holmes, and James Broad. He couldn't knock out James Tillis - a guy KOd 3 times before Tyson even got to him.

How's he going to automatically KO Frazier; a guy really only KOd by one of the top 3 all-time power hitters (using a style tailor made to beat him)?

Yup, both Frazier and Quarry could have beaten Tyson "back in the day"....great post.

Verstyle

10-31-2006, 07:24 PM

Watching 1969 Frazier vs Quarry, I think either of those 2 guys could've given Iron Mike something to think about.
I'm a little suprised to see both guys absent from most peoples' lists, or even a "maybe".

Quarry made a habit of winning as the underdog and I think Frazier would've willed himself to kill Tyson after what happened to Marvis- never downplay the daddy angle.

In 1969 Frazier had 2 hands and threw combos, those 2 things were distinctly absent from the Foreman blowouts, not that the outcome would've been THAT different. The other thing everyone forgets about the first Frazier-Foreman fight is that the ref stopped it with Joe on his feet- he got knocked down a lot but kept getting back up.
Yeah, the second time they fought (if you can call it that), the knockdown was more decisive, but Joe still got back up.

Mike Tyson couldn't get up for a fight while having personal problems, Frazier fought many fights blind in one eye; heart-wise there's no comparison.

Tyson couldn't knock out Bonecrusher Smith, a man KOd by Joe Bugner, Brian Nielsen, Razor Ruddock, Larry Holmes, and James Broad. He couldn't knock out James Tillis - a guy KOd 3 times before Tyson even got to him.
How's he going to automatically KO Frazier; a guy really only KOd by one of the top 3 all-time power hitters (using a style tailor made to beat him)?

so whats every heavyweights excuse for not koing all there opponents. cause it seems to me that u think he shoulda koed all his opponents. well me this.why didnt foreman then? lets discuss the ppl he didnt ko

Southpaw Stinger

10-31-2006, 08:42 PM

so whats every heavyweights excuse for not koing all there opponents. cause it seems to me that u think he shoulda koed all his opponents. well me this.why didnt foreman then? lets discuss the ppl he didnt ko

yeah your right it's a bit stupid to bring down champs for not having a 100% ko rating.

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 08:53 PM

Watching 1969 Frazier vs Quarry, I think either of those 2 guys could've given Iron Mike something to think about.
I'm a little suprised to see both guys absent from most peoples' lists, or even a "maybe".

Quarry made a habit of winning as the underdog and I think Frazier would've willed himself to kill Tyson after what happened to Marvis- never downplay the daddy angle.

In 1969 Frazier had 2 hands and threw combos, those 2 things were distinctly absent from the Foreman blowouts, not that the outcome would've been THAT different. The other thing everyone forgets about the first Frazier-Foreman fight is that the ref stopped it with Joe on his feet- he got knocked down a lot but kept getting back up.
Yeah, the second time they fought (if you can call it that), the knockdown was more decisive, but Joe still got back up.

Mike Tyson couldn't get up for a fight while having personal problems, Frazier fought many fights blind in one eye; heart-wise there's no comparison.

Tyson couldn't knock out Bonecrusher Smith, a man KOd by Joe Bugner, Brian Nielsen, Razor Ruddock, Larry Holmes, and James Broad. He couldn't knock out James Tillis - a guy KOd 3 times before Tyson even got to him.

How's he going to automatically KO Frazier; a guy really only KOd by one of the top 3 all-time power hitters (using a style tailor made to beat him)?

I don't see how Quarry would have a chance. He cut too easily, plus, he wasn't really a spectacular fighter.

Kid Achilles

10-31-2006, 09:43 PM

Quarry definitely was a spectacular fighter who a prime Foreman openly ducked and wanted nothing to do with. I can't guarantee he beats Tyson but he gives him a good fight and was better than anyone Tyson fought except for Lewis and Holyfield.

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 09:51 PM

Quarry definitely was a spectacular fighter who a prime Foreman openly ducked and wanted nothing to do with. I can't guarantee he beats Tyson but he gives him a good fight and was better than anyone Tyson fought except for Lewis and Holyfield.

Quarry wasn't what you would call a great fighter. He was a good fighter, nothing more. Stylistically, I don't think Quarry would give him much trouble.

Plus Spinks is better than Quarry, not just Lewis and Holyfield.

Tysonisgod

10-31-2006, 09:52 PM

Buster Douglas beat him in his young days(and dont give me **** about tyson on that night LOOK AT MY NAME)

phallus

10-31-2006, 09:56 PM

Watching 1969 Frazier vs Quarry, I think either of those 2 guys could've given Iron Mike something to think about.
I'm a little suprised to see both guys absent from most peoples' lists, or even a "maybe".

Quarry made a habit of winning as the underdog and I think Frazier would've willed himself to kill Tyson after what happened to Marvis- never downplay the daddy angle.

In 1969 Frazier had 2 hands and threw combos, those 2 things were distinctly absent from the Foreman blowouts, not that the outcome would've been THAT different. The other thing everyone forgets about the first Frazier-Foreman fight is that the ref stopped it with Joe on his feet- he got knocked down a lot but kept getting back up.
Yeah, the second time they fought (if you can call it that), the knockdown was more decisive, but Joe still got back up.

Mike Tyson couldn't get up for a fight while having personal problems, Frazier fought many fights blind in one eye; heart-wise there's no comparison.

Tyson couldn't knock out Bonecrusher Smith, a man KOd by Joe Bugner, Brian Nielsen, Razor Ruddock, Larry Holmes, and James Broad. He couldn't knock out James Tillis - a guy KOd 3 times before Tyson even got to him.

How's he going to automatically KO Frazier; a guy really only KOd by one of the top 3 all-time power hitters (using a style tailor made to beat him)?

if foreman was a bigger puncher than tyson, and i think he was, i don't see tython knocking smokin joe out. a prime tython - when he threw combinations, moved his head, and put his body weight into his punches would give a prime frazier a good fight, but i think once tython realized he couldn't really hurt frazier he would start mentally caving in. a prime frazier knocks tython out in the middle rounds.

quarry is a very underrrated fighter, i think, had less fighters ducked him he had all the tools to be a hw champ - then we'd all be talking about how great he was. a "good fighter" in quarry's time - the 70's is a great fighter against today's hw bums

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 09:58 PM

Buster Douglas beat him in his young days(and dont give me **** about tyson on that night LOOK AT MY NAME)

Agreed....

NJFighter91

10-31-2006, 10:01 PM

Buster Douglas beat him in his young days(and dont give me **** about tyson on that night LOOK AT MY NAME)

if foreman was a bigger puncher than tyson, and i think he was, i don't see tython knocking smokin joe out. a prime tython - when he threw combinations, moved his head, and put his body weight into his punches would give a prime frazier a good fight, but i think once tython realized he couldn't really hurt frazier he would start mentally caving in. a prime frazier knocks tython out in the middle rounds.

quarry is a very underrrated fighter, i think, had less fighters ducked him he had all the tools to be a hw champ - then we'd all be talking about how great he was. a "good fighter" in quarry's time - the 70's is a great fighter against today's hw bums
there were ppl tyson didnt k.o in his prime and i didnt see him quit or try less. so the stuff your speaking of is tyson outta his prime.ppl tend to confuse both

Prime Tyson

10-31-2006, 10:12 PM

If nobody has mentioned him yet (long thread, haven't read it all), I'd like to add Big George Godfrey's name to the mix as another historical heavyweight that stood a very good chance of beating a young Mike Tyson at his best.

Pork Chop

10-31-2006, 11:16 PM

I don't see how Quarry would have a chance. He cut too easily, plus, he wasn't really a spectacular fighter.

How many fights did Tyson finish by cuts?
He wasn't the type to jab and try to cut someone.
Yeah, Quarry lost to Frazier on a bad cut, I don't see how that means Tyson would cut him. Tyson didn't use old school gloves, Frazier's punch output in that fight was ridiculous, there are just too many variables. I personally don't think Tyson's as good on the inside in the trenches as Frazier was.

My point on the KOs wasn't that Mike should've KOed everyone, but that KOing Frazier wasn't a given, just like it wasn't a given that Mike would KO those other guys who had more KOs on their records from lesser fighters than Foreman.

Quarry and Frazier were both the type to make a fight with Tyson a trench war- the type of fight I'm not so sure Tyson could win, let alone in the spectacular fashion he'd need to in order to keep from getting busted up by either of those 2 in the later rounds.

And yes, Tyson's punch output tended to drop off dramatically in the late rounds; I've got the majority of his fights on dvd myself.

Verstyle

10-31-2006, 11:24 PM

How many fights did Tyson finish by cuts?
He wasn't the type to jab and try to cut someone.
Yeah, Quarry lost to Frazier on a bad cut, I don't see how that means Tyson would cut him. Tyson didn't use old school gloves, Frazier's punch output in that fight was ridiculous, there are just too many variables. I personally don't think Tyson's as good on the inside in the trenches as Frazier was.

My point on the KOs wasn't that Mike should've KOed everyone, but that KOing Frazier wasn't a given, just like it wasn't a given that Mike would KO those other guys who had more KOs on their records from lesser fighters than Foreman.

Quarry and Frazier were both the type to make a fight with Tyson a trench war- the type of fight I'm not so sure Tyson could win, let alone in the spectacular fashion he'd need to in order to keep from getting busted up by either of those 2 in the later rounds.

And yes, Tyson's punch output tended to drop off dramatically in the late rounds; I've got the majority of his fights on dvd myself.

on the inside frazier is better then tyson. and tysons punch output dont fall dramactically i dont know what dvd u watchin. and tyson did cut up quite a few ppl

Kid Achilles

10-31-2006, 11:38 PM

Quarry merely a "good" fighter? No way in hell. He was easily as good as Spinks. I think he was better than Spinks. Quarry was "very good" borderline "great". Tyson probably beats Quarry but he'd still be one of his biggest challenges.

butterfly1964

10-31-2006, 11:50 PM

Quarry merely a "good" fighter? No way in hell. He was easily as good as Spinks. I think he was better than Spinks. Quarry was "very good" borderline "great". Tyson probably beats Quarry but he'd still be one of his biggest challenges.

Ok, Quarry was "very" good, but not great.

Verstyle

10-31-2006, 11:50 PM

Ok, Quarry was "very" good, but not great.

shut up butterfly

butterfly1964

11-01-2006, 12:06 AM

shut up butterfly

Cry me a river.:bottle:

Verstyle

11-01-2006, 12:08 AM

Cry me a river.:bottle:

shut it butterfly

Pork Chop

11-01-2006, 11:11 AM

on the inside frazier is better then tyson. and tysons punch output dont fall dramactically i dont know what dvd u watchin. and tyson did cut up quite a few ppl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMzAtBmrgsw

where is that punch output?
where did it go?
Don't tell me Green was doing all the holding, most of those clinches are initiated by tyson.
The Tyson in that clip would've been DESTROYED by frazier and that's still falls within the mysterious and ever-shrinking Tyson "prime".

Southpaw Stinger

11-01-2006, 11:47 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMzAtBmrgsw

where is that punch output?
where did it go?
Don't tell me Green was doing all the holding, most of those clinches are initiated by tyson.
The Tyson in that clip would've been DESTROYED by frazier and that's still falls within the mysterious and ever-shrinking Tyson "prime".

I think Tysons prime was probably only the minute and half the spinks fight lasted! :nonono:

K-DOGG

11-01-2006, 11:53 AM

If nobody has mentioned him yet (long thread, haven't read it all), I'd like to add Big George Godfrey's name to the mix as another historical heavyweight that stood a very good chance of beating a young Mike Tyson at his best.

Agreed....if Tyson didn't get frustrated with this tactics and bite a titty off.

CALM DOWN, ALL!!

:joke: :D

Verstyle

11-01-2006, 11:57 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMzAtBmrgsw

where is that punch output?
where did it go?
Don't tell me Green was doing all the holding, most of those clinches are initiated by tyson.
The Tyson in that clip would've been DESTROYED by frazier and that's still falls within the mysterious and ever-shrinking Tyson "prime".

your going off 1 fight.and in that fight all he tried throwing is the left hook cause green had fast hands. so really bad fight to go by. neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeext
:rolleyes:

Pork Chop

11-01-2006, 12:14 PM

your going off 1 fight.and in that fight all he tried throwing is the left hook cause green had fast hands. so really bad fight to go by. neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeext
:rolleyes:

And you're rating Frazier's chin on his first fight against Foreman neeeeeeext :rolleyes:

Verstyle

11-01-2006, 12:34 PM

And you're rating Frazier's chin on his first fight against Foreman neeeeeeext :rolleyes:

wonder why your red. where in the hell did i say that? show me please,i will be waiting

Pork Chop

11-01-2006, 01:04 PM

Prior to that Foreman fight, Frazier was known for having one of the sturdiest chins in boxing. Afterwards he gets this reputation of being vulnerable to a big hitter. I doubt he'd be so low on most people's "vs Tyson" lists if it weren't for that fight.

BTW- I'm red from one particular poster from Team Pinoy testing out his karmic affect, "nothing personal".

And if you're going to get on me for being a prick, you might want to try not talking like one yourself, coz i merely repeated your own silly argument.

If you want to make excuses for all of Tyson's bad performances, fine, but don't expect people who like other boxers not to break out their own reasons for their favorite boxer's shortcomings.

The truth of the matter is that Tyson wouldn't be guaranteed to plow through Joe, in fact Tyson didn't have much taste for the type of trench warefare that Frazier would force upon him.

I don't think either wins automatically, because we can never know for sure, but trying to say an atg like Frazier doesn't have a good chance is ludicrous.

Verstyle

11-01-2006, 01:36 PM

Prior to that Foreman fight, Frazier was known for having one of the sturdiest chins in boxing. Afterwards he gets this reputation of being vulnerable to a big hitter. I doubt he'd be so low on most people's "vs Tyson" lists if it weren't for that fight.

BTW- I'm red from one particular poster from Team Pinoy testing out his karmic affect, "nothing personal".

And if you're going to get on me for being a prick, you might want to try not talking like one yourself, coz i merely repeated your own silly argument.

If you want to make excuses for all of Tyson's bad performances, fine, but don't expect people who like other boxers not to break out their own reasons for their favorite boxer's shortcomings.

The truth of the matter is that Tyson wouldn't be guaranteed to plow through Joe, in fact Tyson didn't have much taste for the type of trench warefare that Frazier would force upon him.

I don't think either wins automatically, because we can never know for sure, but trying to say an atg like Frazier doesn't have a good chance is ludicrous.

so r u finally stating i didnt say that. thats all i needed not the full paragraph. and i like having intelligent conversations about boxers.that doesnt go on around here that much anymore.

Pork Chop

11-01-2006, 02:09 PM

Yeah, I was a bit verbose.

Thanks, nice to know we're on the same page.

With as many times as I've lived in San Antonio (it's kind of my hometown), I've never actually boxed around there. Next time I'm down there, would love to check out your gym.

Verstyle

11-01-2006, 02:36 PM

Yeah, I was a bit verbose.

Thanks, nice to know we're on the same page.

With as many times as I've lived in San Antonio (it's kind of my hometown), I've never actually boxed around there. Next time I'm down there, would love to check out your gym.

go to san fernando. my gym sucks

Pork Chop

11-01-2006, 02:59 PM

That the one downtown on Travis?
Any good ones further north? Like Boerne?

Verstyle

11-01-2006, 03:05 PM

That the one downtown on Travis?
Any good ones further north? Like Boerne?

boerne.ahaha.thats full of rich ppl up there. hell naw it wont be a gym there. i worked up there for half a year

Pork Chop

11-01-2006, 03:10 PM

boerne.ahaha.thats full of rich ppl up there. hell naw it wont be a gym there. i worked up there for half a year

My folks used to live in Boerne. I just thought it was nice coz they have a lot of open space for jogging trails and such. Would've liked to open a gym of my own up there some day.

I grew up on Northside- north central and north west, like Bandera area.

I'll check out the downtown stuff next time i'm down that way.

My folks are in houston now, half way to galveston, going there this weekend; tryin to find Foreman's gym.

Verstyle

11-01-2006, 03:18 PM

My folks used to live in Boerne. I just thought it was nice coz they have a lot of open space for jogging trails and such. Would've liked to open a gym of my own up there some day.

I grew up on Northside- north central and north west, like Bandera area.

I'll check out the downtown stuff next time i'm down that way.

My folks are in houston now, half way to galveston, going there this weekend; tryin to find Foreman's gym.

didnt know he had a gym? i might go visit when he's there

Pork Chop

11-01-2006, 03:37 PM

http://www.georgeforeman.com/youthcenter.html

phallus

11-01-2006, 07:41 PM

there were ppl tyson didnt k.o in his prime and i didnt see him quit or try less. so the stuff your speaking of is tyson outta his prime.ppl tend to confuse both

not KOing someone is a lot diferent from hitting with everything u've got and u still can't stop them coming after u, like castillo and pbf. i think tython would break down mentally when he hit frazier with everything he had and frazier came right back with a big left hook

Verstyle

11-01-2006, 07:51 PM

not KOing someone is a lot diferent from hitting with everything u've got and u still can't stop them coming after u, like castillo and pbf. i think tython would break down mentally when he hit frazier with everything he had and frazier came right back with a big left hook

but how would u know if its all tyson has. i saw tyson hit tony tucker(for me) with the most hardest shots i've ever seen some1 take from tyson without going down.and tyson still went 12rounds that fight without being discouraged

butterfly1964

11-01-2006, 08:36 PM

but how would u know if its all tyson has. i saw tyson hit tony tucker(for me) with the most hardest shots i've ever seen some1 take from tyson without going down.and tyson still went 12rounds that fight without being discouraged

Good point. Tyson is not as easy discouraged as some people say. Especially with Kevin Rooney in his corner.

fight726

11-02-2006, 11:34 AM

I think Ali would of had some a tough time with tyson. Ali was knocked down 4 times in his career Ithink and 3 of them were from left hook. Tyson had great head movement and I think it would be a great.
#1 Sonny Banks 1962-left hook
#2 Henry Cooper 1963-left hook
#3 Joe frazier 1971-left hook
#4 Joe Wepner 1975-straight right to the body (Ali tripped over wepners foot)

Oasis_Lad

11-02-2006, 11:37 AM

I think Ali would of had some a tough time with tyson. Ali was knocked down 4 times in his career Ithink and 3 of them were from left hook. Tyson had great head movement and I think it would be a great.
#1 Sonny Banks 1962-left hook
#2 Henry Cooper 1963-left hook
#3 Joe frazier 1971-left hook
#4 Joe Wepner 1975-straight right to the body (Ali tripped over wepners foot)

he got straight back up from all of them though and in 3 of the 4 he went on to win the fight

Southpaw Stinger

11-02-2006, 11:59 AM

he got straight back up from all of them though and in 3 of the 4 he went on to win the fight

Where as Tyson lost whenever he got knocked down!

FeelTheA-Force

11-02-2006, 12:59 PM

I think Ali would of had some a tough time with tyson. Ali was knocked down 4 times in his career Ithink and 3 of them were from left hook. Tyson had great head movement and I think it would be a great.
#1 Sonny Banks 1962-left hook
#2 Henry Cooper 1963-left hook
#3 Joe frazier 1971-left hook
#4 Joe Wepner 1975-straight right to the body (Ali tripped over wepners foot)

henry cooper knocked ali down too

Oasis_Lad

11-02-2006, 01:02 PM

Where as Tyson lost whenever he got knocked down!

exactly! :luvbed:

Southpaw Stinger

11-02-2006, 01:05 PM

henry cooper knocked ali down too

he mentioned cooper.

He also mentioned someone named Joe Wepner.... :nutkick:

The Noose

11-02-2006, 03:37 PM

he mentioned cooper.

He also mentioned someone named Joe Wepner.... :nutkick:

Its chuck wepner. but joe wepner sounds rite if u didnt know his name was chuck, which it is, or was if hes dead.

Southpaw Stinger

11-02-2006, 03:45 PM

Its chuck wepner. but joe wepner sounds rite if u didnt know his name was chuck, which it is, or was if hes dead.

I know it's chuck wepner. and big chucks still alive and well.

The Noose

11-02-2006, 03:49 PM

but how would u know if its all tyson has. i saw tyson hit tony tucker(for me) with the most hardest shots i've ever seen some1 take from tyson without going down.and tyson still went 12rounds that fight without being discouraged

The trouble with that example is Tyson was great as long as he was on top.
Against Tucker he was always going forward and Tucker was trying to catch him with counters.
Tucker hurt his right hand which had had some success with earlier in the fight, catching Tyson with some nice right uppercuts. After he hurt it, he stopped throwing it and Tyson then dominated.

Agaisnt a Frazier, or Marciano, Foreman or even Holyfield, he would be met head on with a guy who can not only take a great shot but punch very hard. Tyson never really met that opponent in his prime, a guy who gave it back.
There was Ruddock and some others who tried to fight with him, but they werent great power punchers who pushed Tyson back.
Frazier would have pushed him back.

When it comes down to it, its about who wants it more, not who has the better technique or punches.
The fights where Tyson went the distance, he dominated. Frazier and Marciano had a few fights where they had to keep perservering and make comeback knockouts. Tyson never did that. He never faced somone who made him dig deep like that.

Verstyle

11-02-2006, 07:58 PM

The trouble with that example is Tyson was great as long as he was on top.
Against Tucker he was always going forward and Tucker was trying to catch him with counters.
Tucker hurt his right hand which had had some success with earlier in the fight, catching Tyson with some nice right uppercuts. After he hurt it, he stopped throwing it and Tyson then dominated.

Agaisnt a Frazier, or Marciano, Foreman or even Holyfield, he would be met head on with a guy who can not only take a great shot but punch very hard. Tyson never really met that opponent in his prime, a guy who gave it back.
There was Ruddock and some others who tried to fight with him, but they werent great power punchers who pushed Tyson back.
Frazier would have pushed him back.

When it comes down to it, its about who wants it more, not who has the better technique or punches.
The fights where Tyson went the distance, he dominated. Frazier and Marciano had a few fights where they had to keep perservering and make comeback knockouts. Tyson never did that. He never faced somone who made him dig deep like that.

yeah he didnt. the closest person i would say is jose ribalta getting up from 2 knockdowns

The Noose

11-02-2006, 08:23 PM

[/B]

yeah he didnt. the closest person i would say is jose ribalta getting up from 2 knockdowns

Yea but Tyson was hitting him with everything and Ribalta had nothing to fire back with.
Id say Bonecrusher Smith tested Tysons paitence with all that holding, and Pinklon Thomas was doing well for a few rounds, but Tyson was being lazy until Rooney gave him a mouthful and guess wat....next round Tyson KO's him.
Rooney was so important.

Kid Achilles

11-02-2006, 10:01 PM

The hardest thing Tyson had to deal with was an opponent not staying down and actually having the nerve to hit back. He never had his nose split open like Marciano, his ear hanging on by a thread like Dempsey vs. Brennan, or his arm broken like Marcel Cerdan vs. LaMotta or a broken jaw like Liston vs. Marshall.

Tyson had heart, but honestly, no one can say he had anything remotely close to Frazier, Marciano, Dempsey, Louis, Ali, Holmes's heart. That's just a fact. He had heart, more than the average fighter, but nothing legendary. Nothing close to as impressive as his skill and as Ali said, for a fighter to be truly great, the will must surpass the skill.

Tyson was a physical phenom, but lacked confidence in himself and the true grit that the great heavyweights had. He would have a solid puncher's chance against anyone in history, but in the end he always ended up unraveling mentally when he was tested.

Mr. Ryan

11-03-2006, 02:46 PM

Sonny Liston for one, he was significantly stronger and was mobile and had the jab to stop him in his tracks. Larry Holmes and Muhammad Ali in their primes would have also beat him.

pound 5 pound

11-10-2006, 06:52 PM

acutally most of the boxers he fought had what it took to stop him

It was the mental part that made them lose, like Holyfield I bet 1000 dollars the samething would have happened if he would have fought him instead of Tevor Berbick

Abe Attell

11-15-2006, 10:10 AM

Where as Tyson lost whenever he got knocked down!

That's because when Tyson was down, he was basically finished. He didn't suffer from flash-knockdowns or getting knocked down by one punch or a combo in the early to mid rounds. No, it was after a severe beating, his will to stay up until he was completly shot to death.

not his fault he had a good chin and could take punishment

Abe Attell

11-15-2006, 10:15 AM

acutally most of the boxers he fought had what it took to stop him

It was the mental part that made them lose, like Holyfield I bet 1000 dollars the samething would have happened if he would have fought him instead of Tevor Berbick

That is like saying that most fighters could beat Foreman, Ali, Louis, etc. , it was all mental.

Mentality is a strength, it is your job to build it if you can.

If they were scared, it was because they knew they were out-matched.

Tyson wasn't a 7'0 foot giant that weighed 300lbs solid muscle, no, he was shorter than most, and weighed 220.

It was his skill/ability, his style, attitude, power, that made them fear him.

When Tyson left Rooney, the way of D'amato was over. D'amato taught toughness and increased Tyson's mental edge. Tyson, when in shape, when properly prepared, was a bad ass MF. Tyson not trained, is weaker mentally.

Abe Attell

11-15-2006, 10:23 AM

When it comes down to it, its about who wants it more, not who has the better technique or punches.
The fights where Tyson went the distance, he dominated. Frazier and Marciano had a few fights where they had to keep perservering and make comeback knockouts. Tyson never did that. He never faced somone who made him dig deep like that.

That's because Tyson had great skills, and Marciano didn't.

If Tyson fought the guys Marciano fought, he would look better than Marciano, but of course if that were to happen, you would use your arguement that Tyson wasn't fighting somebody that could push him back.

This is like saying how great Gatti is because he has come back from being knockdown, but Mayweather is **** because he has never comeback from adversity. Not Mayweather's fault he is a step above.

And Ruddock did make Tyson dig deep. All after Rooney, which was a weaker mental Tyson. If you look at Tyson in the corner, you can see he doesn't want to be there, but when the bell sounds for the round, he goes out and does his business the best he can (at that point in his career).

Tyson was stunned against Bruno, came back...stunned against Ruddock, came back. This is the same as being knockdown, since it would have knockdown others, but Tyson had the chin/will to continue standing.

Tyson's legs are tree-trunks, another reason why he remained standing for a while.

Of course they would rot in prison.

Southpaw Stinger

11-15-2006, 10:24 AM

That's because when Tyson was down, he was basically finished. He didn't suffer from flash-knockdowns or getting knocked down by one punch or a combo in the early to mid rounds. No, it was after a severe beating, his will to stay up until he was completly shot to death.

not his fault he had a good chin and could take punishment

But thats the kind of thing that seperates a good fighter from a great fighter. A great fighter fights past his physical limmit, he continues to fight where others would stay down. Continues to throw punchers even when his arms are dead and has no energy left.

A great fighter picks himself up and fights on til the end no matter what. win or lose they fight on.

Abe Attell

11-15-2006, 10:26 AM

Yea but Tyson was hitting him with everything and Ribalta had nothing to fire back with.
Id say Bonecrusher Smith tested Tysons paitence with all that holding, and Pinklon Thomas was doing well for a few rounds, but Tyson was being lazy until Rooney gave him a mouthful and guess wat....next round Tyson KO's him.
Rooney was so important.

That's Tyson's weakness: without strong personalities like a D'amato, Rooney or an Atlas, he wasn't his strongest upstairs during fights, and outside the ring for that matter.

Abe Attell

11-15-2006, 10:30 AM

But thats the kind of thing that seperates a good fighter from a great fighter. A great fighter fights past his physical limmit, he continues to fight where others would stay down. Continues to throw punchers even when his arms are dead and has no energy left.

A great fighter picks himself up and fights on til the end no matter what. win or lose they fight on.

So I am guessing you didn't see the Ruddock, Bruno, Douglas, Holyfield fights?

Ruddock, stunned, and what does he do? He fights back, despite being hurt.

Bruno, stunned, and fights back.

Douglas, out of shape, not with the right trainer/corner, is getting his ass handed to him, but still fights back, landing a shot that knocks Douglas down. Douglas gets up, kicks Tysons ass again, but Tyson up until he finally was put down, was still trying to knock Douglas out, but of course it was with one shot bombs. Even when he was down, he struggled hard to get up, and did, but of course couldn't continue as the ref waived the fight.
Holyfield (I), was stunned really bad the round before he was finally knocked out on his FEET...after being stunned and hurt badly in that round, he came back out swinging, only to get knocked out.

And at that point, Marciano never faced a true threat either in his prime. So in my opinon, based at "Top level" performance, he was never tested.

Southpaw Stinger

11-15-2006, 10:45 AM

And at that point, Marciano never faced a true threat either in his prime. So in my opinon, based at "Top level" performance, he was never tested.

i would agree.

So I am guessing you didn't see the Ruddock, Bruno, Douglas, Holyfield fights?

Ruddock, stunned, and what does he do? He fights back, despite being hurt.

Bruno, stunned, and fights back.

Douglas, out of shape, not with the right trainer/corner, is getting his ass handed to him, but still fights back, landing a shot that knocks Douglas down. Douglas gets up, kicks Tysons ass again, but Tyson up until he finally was put down, was still trying to knock Douglas out, but of course it was with one shot bombs. Even when he was down, he struggled hard to get up, and did, but of course couldn't continue as the ref waived the fight.
Holyfield (I), was stunned really bad the round before he was finally knocked out on his FEET...after being stunned and hurt badly in that round, he came back out swinging, only to get knocked out.

I have seen all of those fights but there is a difference between getting stunned and taking a one sided beating - and coming back to win.

Think of the times Ali was stunned and rocked to hell by shavers yet he came back to win and nearly KO Shavers in the 15th. And this is way past his prime Ali who's out of shape with early parkinsons. Or getting decked by frazier in the 15th after taking a huge lot of hard shots through nearly all of the fight. Yet after the brutal knockdown he was up at 3 and continued to fight despite the fact he probably knew all was lost.

Abe Attell

11-15-2006, 11:20 AM

Ali was a freak, and mentally stronger than Tyson. This is what makes Ali better than Tyson, he was mentally stronger. Although, he did want to quit or at least take off the gloves, which would force a stoppage, against Liston in there first fight, but Dundee told him to fight on. But to be fair, it is understandable since if something is burning your eyes your first reaction is to want to wipe them.

Ali was past his best when he fought Frazier, Formean, Shavers, Norton, etc.

That says something about the man that puts him above most, if not all.