Anne.Uumellmahaye:I just learned that in Indiana if the property of an establishment wishing to sell alcohol abutts the property of a church, they have to get permission from the priest/pastor/head (though not Jesus, I assume) to be allowed to sell alcohol. But still never on Sundays or Christmas.

Indiana has the same law for elementary schools. They need to get permission of the priest in the neighboring church, plus they must produce pictures of the children so the clergy can make an informed judgement.

the_end_is_rear:theurge14: If the red states truly want smaller government, they can start to demonstrate that by removing intrusive morality laws such as this one.

But these kind of laws are ok when they are shoving their version of morality and religion down ones throat.

Ah, because hypocrisy.

We're so blessed in Orlando that we can buy alcohol after noon on Sundays now. Until relatively recently, one couldn't get it at all on the Lord's day. All hail our Christian masters and their beneficence.

buzzcut73:busy chillin': buzzcut73: I learned the hard way about Kansas' weak beer in convenience stores rules when I was traveling through that Godforsaken wasteland and had to stop overnight because the weather got shiatty. Picked up a six pack, got checked into a hotel in Parsons, and NOOO...it was just like Utah all over again.

/Fark Kansas

Dude, just fly over us next time. We don't mind. Really.

Heh. I was just venting. I usually do fly over. IIRC, that lame story came from when I was bringing my daughter back to her mom's house when they still lived in KS. It had already been a long day starting with a 4 hour delay in Kona, having to rebook in LA and DFW to get to Kansas City, a 3 hour drive from there in crappy weather...I just wanted to get back to my dad's place in SW MO and didn't make it. Weak beer was the final nail in the coffin.

/On the bright side, I did get to drop off a few rolls of Kodachrome that I hadn't gotten around to mailing to Dwayne's yet.

factoryconnection:Is it available in every supermarket, every day, all day, in any quantity? Or are some (like the aforementioned Weggies and Whole Foods) just exercising 6-pack shop licenses? It isn't the same. I grew up in PA, went to school in PA, and now I live in South Carolina. I've seen just about every twist on strange liquor laws (short of Utah's low-ABV beer and bar/restaurant rules).

It is just six packs, and it is sold away from the food as far as I have seen. I think wegmans has wine too, I know some stores are using vending machines for wine and beer though. It really only seems to be the biggest and best stores that can afford the bribes license and whatnot.

No wine, beer or liquor in RI grocery stores. No beer at the gas staions, either.The Liquor Lobby (which, if I'm not mistaken, translates as "Family-Controlled Distributors") is to blame. It ain't always the Baptists...

Am I the only one who doesn't have a problem with the way PA sells alcohol? Although, as a man who lived down South, I was shocked last year when I went to Ohio and saw tequila and Russian tap water (otherwise known as vodka) sold in Wal-Mart. Not even down South would you see that!

fustanella:the_end_is_rear: theurge14: If the red states truly want smaller government, they can start to demonstrate that by removing intrusive morality laws such as this one.

But these kind of laws are ok when they are shoving their version of morality and religion down ones throat.

Ah, because hypocrisy.

We're so blessed in Orlando that we can buy alcohol after noon on Sundays now. Until relatively recently, one couldn't get it at all on the Lord's day. All hail our Christian masters and their beneficence.

Marine1:Maud Dib: buzzcut73: I learned the hard way about Kansas' weak beer in convenience stores rules when I was traveling through that Godforsaken wasteland and had to stop overnight because the weather got shiatty. Picked up a six pack, got checked into a hotel in Parsons, and NOOO...it was just like Utah all over again.

/Fark Kansas

It's called "Baptist Beer".

It's called "shiat" and it fits in well with the state's general motif.

/Fark kansas

Colorado, known for being home to some great craft breweries, also limits grocery stores to 3.2 beer.

Magorn:Liquor laws just confuse the hell out me. I grew up in an MD country where All Alcohol had to be purchased at a liquor store, but they were all privately owned. One county up it was beer and wine in the supermarkets, but all hard booze came from county-run and owned ABC stores. Supposedly red State VA is like that all over the state. My favorite was Chicago where Beer and liquor are equally available at your local supermarkets which means two things: Shopping is a LOT more fun on "free sample" days, and you can sometimes get mega door-buster, loss-leader type promotions on booze right around the holidays

Virginia supported Obama two elections in a row, and has now elected Democrats in theree consecutive Senate elections....

The idiocy that is Virginia ABC was a product of Democrats. When the Catholic Republican who's in office now wanted to replace the ABC, Democrats in the Senate scuttled it because it'd reduce revenue. Uh, yeah. And people might drink. Peddling vice is bad unless the Commonwealth does it.

//I still want some good Rye, but I can't find it because ABC doesn't sell it

bluorangefyre:Am I the only one who doesn't have a problem with the way PA sells alcohol? Although, as a man who lived down South, I was shocked last year when I went to Ohio and saw tequila and Russian tap water (otherwise known as vodka) sold in Wal-Mart. Not even down South would you see that!

Moved from PA to CT. Buying beer on Sundays at any grocery store is heaven.

Donnchadha:CygnusDarius: WTF Indeed: To be fair, there's nothing to do in Kansas but get drunk.

Is sex that bad?.

With Kansas girls?

Is it really that bad of a choice?.

Marine1:Maud Dib: buzzcut73: I learned the hard way about Kansas' weak beer in convenience stores rules when I was traveling through that Godforsaken wasteland and had to stop overnight because the weather got shiatty. Picked up a six pack, got checked into a hotel in Parsons, and NOOO...it was just like Utah all over again.

/Fark Kansas

It's called "Baptist Beer".

It's called "shiat" and it fits in well with the state's general motif.

/Fark kansas

When the zombies rise, or the robots try to kill us, or the bombs fall, or whichever is your favorite apocalyptic event (mine is simple societal decline, like the Western Romans) happens, it won't be that bad.

Then again, the world needs to go down the drain for that booze to be decent, so there.

As a Pennsylvanian, I hope PA never loses the PLCB stores.Scenario: Teenager wants a bottle of Bacardi1) Privately-owned, responsible store2) PLCB store3) Privately-owned store who is hurting for cash to pay their rent/bills4) Privately-owned store with unscrupulous friend of teenager cashier or unscrupulous owner

First two, the teenager gets shot down immediately.Unfortunately, although they may be in the minority, there will be enough of stores 3 and 4.

DemDave:Yes, it's not terribly convenient to always have to buy your liquore from a liquor store. But what really irks me about this law is that you can't buy ice, mixers or limes or anything at the liquor store.

Just want a couple of G&Ts while you're watching the game tonight? That's still two stops on your way home, unless you find one of the liquor stores that happen have a small "party store" located inside. But then you have to flag down an employee and they have to ring it up as two separate purchases....

The Wegmans in Branchburg NJ does the same thing, but I think they had to buy a liquor license. It would be nice if NJ did away with that crap, and allowed at least beer and wine to be sold anywhere that tobacco is sold...

Same at the Wegmans in Princeton, but Branchburg is a much physically bigger store. I also like that Wegmans chooses to *not* sell any tobacco products anymore.

Hmm. I did not know that (probably because I have no use for tobacco). Yet another reason to love them...

the_end_is_rear:theurge14: If the red states truly want smaller government, they can start to demonstrate that by removing intrusive morality laws such as this one.

But these kind of laws are ok when they are shoving their version of morality and religion down ones throat.

Isn't always morality (but started out that way - the Temperance movement was one of big progressive causes back in the day), but money. Virginia, Maryland and Rhode Island have some crazy laws but are not "red states". One purple, two very, very blue.

bluorangefyre:Am I the only one who doesn't have a problem with the way PA sells alcohol?

If you're used to it, it works. The six-pack retail prices at just about every bar in State College for a last-call supply run kicked ass and I've not seen that level of convenience elsewhere. Being able to buy actual cases of anything at the distributor, with the lower-than-most-places prices they had was also quite nice.

However there is something to be said, as an adult, being able to buy beer and wine along with all my other groceries, in the same store at the same time, and if I need a lot of either or both for a party I can get it. But then I get along withouth liquor being so convenient, so there you are.

Banned on the Run:DemDave: Yes, it's not terribly convenient to always have to buy your liquore from a liquor store. But what really irks me about this law is that you can't buy ice, mixers or limes or anything at the liquor store.

Just want a couple of G&Ts while you're watching the game tonight? That's still two stops on your way home, unless you find one of the liquor stores that happen have a small "party store" located inside. But then you have to flag down an employee and they have to ring it up as two separate purchases....

poconojoe:technically - some supermarkets do sell beer (such as Wegman's) but they're separate shops (with separate entrances and registers) attached to the supermarket. there isn't a "beer isle" - you can't drop a 6 pack in your cart then go for your milk and bread like in most normal states. if you buy any alcohol, you have to leave the store, put it in your car, then come back in to shop.

Having first hand knowledge of the way PA laws work, there is a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation out there. The first being that the PLCB is some type of tyrannical, puritan nanny state organization hell bent on stopping anyone from getting their drink on...it's actually quite the opposite. State laws require alcohol to be sold in a certain manner which is regulated by PLCB, the PLCB is pushing for modernization and allowing sales within grocery stores and other venues but the major pushbacks are coming from lobbyist groups and private organizations who stand to lose (beer distributors and MADD).

A big part of the problem is the fact that in some way small businesses will always be disenfranchised with progress. The more licenses given to the Wal-Marts of the world, the less mom & pop beer shops there are. With the insanely huge size of PA's legislature it's an exercise in complete futility to get any changes on the lawbooks because of the vast representation.

On the other side is the privatization argument, in it's purest sense right now the way it works is that the more booze that's sold, the less you pay in taxes. The store side is pushing towards matching privatization also but they get stymied every 4 years when there is a change in leadership and the new governor appoints a new boss. Anyone with business sense knows it takes longer than 4 years to put together an effective business strategy.

The latest chairman is a plant by Corbett who has his own agenda and is turning back all the changes made from the previous administration. It's way too many hands in the pot.

My own personal take is that it doesn't really matter to me as long as I don't pay more in taxes and as long as dirtbag drug dealing crime dens get liquor licenses.

pgh9fan:As a Pennsylvanian, I hope PA never loses the PLCB stores.Scenario: Teenager wants a bottle of Bacardi1) Privately-owned, responsible store2) PLCB store3) Privately-owned store who is hurting for cash to pay their rent/bills4) Privately-owned store with unscrupulous friend of teenager cashier or unscrupulous owner

First two, the teenager gets shot down immediately.Unfortunately, although they may be in the minority, there will be enough of stores 3 and 4.

Let's stick to the PLCB stores.

And New Jersey residents believe it takes a professional to pump gas. Your example is in such a minority across the nation that it's silly to base laws on it. The penalties for selling to minors have become so great that even 40-year-olds are carded now. Selling that $10 bottle of Bicardi to a young-looking person just isn't worth the possible punishment.

If I want beer I have to go to the distributor or one of the bar/restaurants that sell 6 packs. If I want liquor, I have to go to the state store. Never have seen a convenience store that sold either. I've heard of a handful of chains that sold 6 packs but that's about it, and they're confined to a small geographic region.

Anne.Uumellmahaye:I just learned that in Indiana if the property of an establishment wishing to sell alcohol abutts the property of a church, they have to get permission from the priest/pastor/head (though not Jesus, I assume) to be allowed to sell alcohol. But still never on Sundays or Christmas.

That's a step up from TX and most states, in which there's an absolute no liquor radius of at least 500' around churches and schools.

poconojoe:amindtat:Beer selection at the Wilkes-Barre, PA location of Wegmans

rempy:already sold in supermarkets in PA subby

technically - some supermarkets do sell beer (such as Wegman's) but they're separate shops (with separate entrances and registers) attached to the supermarket. there isn't a "beer isle" - you can't drop a 6 pack in your cart then go for your milk and bread like in most normal states. if you buy any alcohol, you have to leave the store, put it in your car, then come back in to shop.

a lot of convenience stores here in PA are the same way - they'll have two entrances. one will take you into the regular store, and the beer/6 pack store will be a separate entrance and walled off from the rest of the store. if you want gasoline and a 6 pack of Yuengling, you just have to go to two separate cash registers.

/still shocked that some liquors stores are now even open on Sundays here in PA

Wegmans started out that way--you could only buy alcohol on the alcohol side of the store. Now the alcohol section is like any other department and there is beer and wine on display in certain sections of the store (such as the meat and cheese sections). The only limitation is that certain cashiers are too young to process orders with alcohol, so you'll see a sign now and then that alcohol cannot be purchased at certain registers.

ChipNASA:ashinmytomatoes: What a grocery store in Louisiana might look like. Bonus: I can easily walk there from my house.

[acquistapaces.com image 800x600]

/Now I'm thirsty...COLORADO (But they may be going down for tax evasion.)

[24.media.tumblr.com image 668x438]

I recently picked up a keg of Deschutes Chainbreaker from them. It's a great place to pick up booze, but they gouge the shiat out of you for mixers, sodas and accessories. Over New Years they wanted $12 for six plastic champagne flutes ...

poconojoe:amindtat:Beer selection at the Wilkes-Barre, PA location of Wegmans

rempy:already sold in supermarkets in PA subby

technically - some supermarkets do sell beer (such as Wegman's) but they're separate shops (with separate entrances and registers) attached to the supermarket. there isn't a "beer isle" - you can't drop a 6 pack in your cart then go for your milk and bread like in most normal states. if you buy any alcohol, you have to leave the store, put it in your car, then come back in to shop.

a lot of convenience stores here in PA are the same way - they'll have two entrances. one will take you into the regular store, and the beer/6 pack store will be a separate entrance and walled off from the rest of the store. if you want gasoline and a 6 pack of Yuengling, you just have to go to two separate cash registers.

/still shocked that some liquors stores are now even open on Sundays here in PA

The Wegmans beer selection is nice, but only if you want no more than 12 bottles at a time. If you want more than that you have to leave the store and then come back inside for a second purchase.

Those wine machines were so stupid it wasn't even funny. You had to get breathalyzed and run your ID through a scanner so someone in Harrisburg could give you the ok to buy one bottle of crappy wine at a time. You want two bottles? Go through the whole thing again.

pgh9fan:As a Pennsylvanian, I hope PA never loses the PLCB stores.Scenario: Teenager wants a bottle of Bacardi1) Privately-owned, responsible store2) PLCB store3) Privately-owned store who is hurting for cash to pay their rent/bills4) Privately-owned store with unscrupulous friend of teenager cashier or unscrupulous owner

First two, the teenager gets shot down immediately.Unfortunately, although they may be in the minority, there will be enough of stores 3 and 4.

Let's stick to the PLCB stores.

What a crock. If kids want booze, they have plenty of ways to get it. Older friend buys it, etc.

Usually they do the same thing they do to get pills to get high. Get them from their parents.

THE PLCB stores are only protecting the people who work in them & for them. Of course, last time I was in a state store the manager was bombed out of her gourd. She probably couldn't even read an ID....

We recently got liquor in grocery stores in WA. I must say that I don't like it all that much. I imagine that it is a profitable item for them and they push it hard. Some of the end aisle displays are liquor instead of food items, they throw liquor on sale into random aisles and display cases, etc. It feels trashy to me and takes away some food space.

This totally won't make the highways a bloodbath after every idiot who thinks being drunk is totally cool decides to hop in a driver's seat, right? The 21st amendment and this country's ass-backwards drinking culture is a farking disgrace, more people die from drunk drivers than plane crashes, sharks, and terrorism combined.

In b4 drunkards say that alcohol control is impossible, Saudi Arabia and a boatload of middle eastern countries do it and they have virtually no alcohol abuse. If they can do it, so can we.

This totally won't make the highways a bloodbath after every idiot who thinks being drunk is totally cool decides to hop in a driver's seat, right? The 21st amendment and this country's ass-backwards drinking culture is a farking disgrace, more people die from drunk drivers than plane crashes, sharks, and terrorism combined.

In b4 drunkards say that alcohol control is impossible, Saudi Arabia and a boatload of middle eastern countries do it and they have virtually no alcohol abuse. If they can do it, so can we.

Solid effort starting out, but I'm going to have to deduct points for that last paragraph. Way too obvious.4/10

Banned on the Run:DemDave: Yes, it's not terribly convenient to always have to buy your liquore from a liquor store. But what really irks me about this law is that you can't buy ice, mixers or limes or anything at the liquor store.

Just want a couple of G&Ts while you're watching the game tonight? That's still two stops on your way home, unless you find one of the liquor stores that happen have a small "party store" located inside. But then you have to flag down an employee and they have to ring it up as two separate purchases....

What state has that retarded law?

Oklahoma. Where all liquor comes from Liquor Stores which close at 9pm, aren't open on Sundays, or Federal Holidays, or on Voting days, and you must be 21 to even enter the store.

As with any law you have to look a bit deeper than just "morality police!!!".

Anytime one of these laws come up for debate, look to see who's funding the opposition. Who's ox is going to get gored?

In Colorado, the biggest opponents, by far, to grocery stores selling beer/alchohol/wine (non-3.2 beer that is) are local small liquor stores, bars and craft beer makers.

They fear large, national chain stores like Walmart will be able to bring in product by the truckload at much, much lower prices and undercut them.

And they spread fear (FUD? maybe) in the consumers that such large chains like Walmart will only stock the biggest sellers, the most popular brands...ie, water down the choice. I've read plenty of wine blogs out of California that tell similar tales. The most important and biggest influencer of wine purchasing in the nation is the national wine buyer from Walmart...a women who reportedly doesn't really like wine at all IIRC. She views it at just another commodity to maximize profits on.

That's where the real debate lies. That's where the money is. Not with some notion of morality.