Jehochman wrote:On short haul European flights you can buy business class, and you will get seated in a standard coach seat. The only difference is that you're at the front of the cabin and maybe get a free drink. This info may be slightly outdated because it's been years since I took such a flight from Frankfurt to Prague on Lufthansa.

Also the middle seat stays empty (at least on some planes, there's a fold out table that goes there). Better meal. At least on some, there's free drinks in coach as well but there may be better quality beverages (on a Paris-London flight on Air France some 20+ years ago, only Business Class could get champagne).

But a better comparison is to European rail first class. Depending on the train, it may be nothing more than a more exclusive seating area (because only people willing to pay more are there). Or a capacity controlled seating area while second class is open seating. Back in September, a business trip had me taking an ICE train from Frankfurt to Brussels. Nothing in the service description made me think that First Class on that train made it worth the extra fare. By my limited experience in Europe, I'd say Amtrak's Business Class on most trains is in line with European First Class. It's only when you start trying to compare it to U.S. and intercontinental air First or Business class that the comparison falls apart.

But, a trip we have planned for September will have me flying Lufthansa in Business Class from Frankfurt to Stockholm (about a 2 hour flight) and then a few days later we'll go train Stockholm to Oslo (about 5 hours). It's too early to purchase but the current advance purchase fares I see have First Class only $11.50 more than Second Class so I'll probably splurge on it ($34.00 vs. $22.50 - in Swedish Krona, 295 SEK vs. 195 SEK). I'll let you know how it was come September.

Rockingham Racer wrote:Call it Enhanced Coach and we're all done with the issue.

Agreed, just like airlines now have Economy Plus or the like.

I find the Crescent's. business class sort of insulting, since the only benefit seeems to be free nonalcoholic drinks plus the option to pay $20 for lounge access at Philadelphia. That's another inconsistency: Amtrak has slews of different types of lounges that have different names and different access policies. They should all be consistent.

Last edited by SouthernRailway on Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

For my money the best splurge is redcap service. The wife was very impressed last time I had the whole family loaded (all six of us plus a friend) before everybody else boarded the train, and the bags were all stowed neatly.

Business class is mainly an amenity that lets you be seated with other business travelers, rather than random travelers. I'm usually the weirdo on the train, so I don't worry too much who my seatmate is.

I've got some coupons for business class upgrades, but haven't been able to use them because business is always full when I ask. Apparently there is a strong market for those seats.

It's usually the case when the train terminates in Atlanta that it's stored on the old Atlantic Steel siding, fairly visible from the downtown connection and the Peachtree Road overpass.

Crescent Trains 19 and 20: Bus Service Provided between Atlanta and New OrleansEffective on Select Dates Starting January 8 - February 23, 2017Track work being performed by Norfolk Southern Railway will affect Trains 19 and 20 between New Orleans and Atlanta, on the following dates:

I have my beef with the coach-as-business switch as well, but here are some recent thoughts.

This month I've been Chicago-Detroit on the Wolverine 3x in business. I've also had 3-5 "coach-as-business" trips recently out east, Crescent and NPN trains mostly. While I really like the 2-1 seating allowing me my own seat, it's not a wider seat and there is no extra storage, which would be nice. The wider arm rest between the 2 seats on the other side is a nice feature. The 2-2 "coach-as-business", however, is usually much quieter than the 2-1 "true biz" product, at least on Crescent, because they stick it behind the sleepers and diner. The 2-1 true business product is the other half of the lounge/snack bar and usually is full party to all the transactions in the snack bar and goofiness in the lounge, as well as the T&E personnel that set up shop there. It's also behind the engine half the time, which isn't that great.

I took it May 27th, was looking beautiful until it hit Anniston, AL - where it then hit freight interference and had a sick customer...was almost 3 hours down when it got to Spartanburg, SC. I think we made it back to NYP an hour and half late, which I suppose isn't awful.

"I am no longer just a girl on the train, going back and forth without point or purpose."

I rode 19 from Philly to Atlanta last Fri and Sat. We lost 30 minutes in Washington during the engine change because of congestion in the tunnel with two trains coming in and two going out. Later we sat on a passing siding for 45 minutes waiting for a northbound NS freight to come off the single track.Today's 19 arrived Atlanta sixteen minutes early.

My son, traveling on 20(16) from Atlanta to Albany NY, told me that the Crescent's baggage car was transferred to 176 at DC. This makes sense from what the Crescent's shcedule shows, though 176 is not listed as having baggage service in the timetable.

I have an upcoming trip on the northbound Crescent and see that unfortunately the train is almost never on time, and is often delayed up to 3 hours or more. Thanks to mmi16's helpful insights, it appears that these chronic delays are due to freight congestion west of Atlanta. (The southbound Crescent appears pretty timely, apart from the summer of 2017 during Penn Station work.)

It looks as though these delays have been going on for years. What is Amtrak doing about this, and when can we expect to see these delays ended?

I also thought that Norfolk Southern was considered to be a well-run railroad, but a railroad that has chronic delays of hours and hours on the same route nearly every day for years does not seem well-run.

A train that's late every now and then is tolerable, but one that is late 3 hours or more, or so, basically every single day makes it basically worthless to people who live between Atlanta and Spartanburg, SC, since they'd be able to board at a civilized hour if the train is on time but in the middle of the night if it's not.