This is a discussion on Understanding the pro's plays within the online poker forums, in the Cash Games section; Often when watching the professionals playing poker on tv I really don't understand some of the plays they make. I'm sure if anyone on here

Often when watching the professionals playing poker on tv I really don't understand some of the plays they make. I'm sure if anyone on here posted a hand where they made a play which involved some of the things the pros do they would get slaughtered for it. Here's an example of a hand i watched on a poker after dark cash game the other day. The hand was between Greg Mueller and Oliver Busquets. Blinds were $300/$600 and Mueller is in the sb with Busquets in the bb and it gets folded round to the sb and Mueller limps with KJo. Busquets checks his 63o. The flop comes 962r. Mueller bets $1000 and Busquets raises to $3000.

So why does he raise here? He has 2nd pair no kicker, surely no worse hands are going to call so it's not a value bet, but not many better hands are going to fold so it's not a bluff. I just don't understand why he raises here? There are numerous other times when he and other players did this kind of play i.e. raise with 2nd pair or tpwk. Can anyone explain why he made this play and in general why pro's play hand in way's that I would never play at small stakes?

#2

28th December 2012, 5:39 PM

starting_at_the_bottom [2,190]

"So why does he raise here? He has 2nd pair no kicker, surely no worse hands are going to call so it's not a value bet"

At the risk of sounding stupid, perhaps he is raising because he (correctly) thinks he has the best hand. doesnt matter if its 63off, the best hand is the best hand.

#3

28th December 2012, 6:02 PM

homeplay303 [42]

Poker at: blackchip po

Game: holdem

Some plays you can never understand,its harder when you can see the cards on tv!!

#4

28th December 2012, 6:02 PM

youregoodmate [2,683]

Online Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: NLHE

He probably knows he's getting called by worse so often and wants to make him pay for his overcards. He knows he's good and can check back the turn meaning he doesn't have to call a double/triple barrel.

High stakes play is so much more complex, don't worry about it and definitely don't model yourself on it.

#5

28th December 2012, 6:29 PM

JamesTy [9]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Txholdem

re: Poker & Understanding the pro's plays

Tv only shows ya selected hands. You don't know what kinda hands let up to some of those plays before you see the one that made the TV cut.

#6

28th December 2012, 6:57 PM

Bubbles [42]

Online Poker at: full tilt

Game: hold em

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesTy

Tv only shows ya selected hands. You don't know what kinda hands let up to some of those plays before you see the one that made the TV cut.

+1
Also his mid pair isnt exaclty the nuts and almost all turn cards suck for him. This is a board that misses opponents alot so raising allows him to take the pot right there most of the time.

If he calls, hes folding a ton on the river

#7

28th December 2012, 7:24 PM

Zin [395]

Poker at: BCP, Bovada

Game: NL Holdem

Most pro's are playing the player not so much the cards. Mueller is tighter than tight and was only trying to steal the blinds imho, Oliver knows that.

#8

28th December 2012, 7:50 PM

js520 [292]

Online Poker at: 888.com

Game: holdem

Quote:

Originally Posted by youregoodmate

He probably knows he's getting called by worse so often and wants to make him pay for his overcards. He knows he's good and can check back the turn meaning he doesn't have to call a double/triple barrel.

High stakes play is so much more complex, don't worry about it and definitely don't model yourself on it.

What worse hands are calling?
And yea i'm not gonna be modelling me play on theirs lol I just want t try and get some understanding of some of their plays

#9

28th December 2012, 7:56 PM

youregoodmate [2,683]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: NLHE

Quote:

Originally Posted by js520

What worse hands are calling?
And yea i'm not gonna be modelling me play on theirs lol I just want t try and get some understanding of some of their plays

Overcards, bottom pair type hands and straight draws maybe. Remember these guys are so aggro that they can often profitably raise the hands that we wouldn't dream of.

#10

28th December 2012, 8:36 PM

starting_at_the_bottom [2,190]

re: Poker & Understanding the pro's plays

Quote:

Originally Posted by js520

What worse hands are calling?

So what are you suggesting?

He flat calls and waits to get drawn out on?

He was protecting the best hand, its not always about betting for value from worse hands.

#11

28th December 2012, 9:13 PM

Seraphim [510]

Game: Holdem

Quote:

Originally Posted by js520

Often when watching the professionals playing poker on tv I really don't understand some of the plays they make. I'm sure if anyone on here posted a hand where they made a play which involved some of the things the pros do they would get slaughtered for it. Here's an example of a hand i watched on a poker after dark cash game the other day. The hand was between Greg Mueller and Oliver Busquets. Blinds were $300/$600 and Mueller is in the sb with Busquets in the bb and it gets folded round to the sb and Mueller limps with KJo. Busquets checks his 63o. The flop comes 962r. Mueller bets $1000 and Busquets raises to $3000.

So why does he raise here? He has 2nd pair no kicker, surely no worse hands are going to call so it's not a value bet, but not many better hands are going to fold so it's not a bluff. I just don't understand why he raises here? There are numerous other times when he and other players did this kind of play i.e. raise with 2nd pair or tpwk. Can anyone explain why he made this play and in general why pro's play hand in way's that I would never play at small stakes?

Ok everthing people said is correct that I saw but I also feel he is balencing his range because so often we say well he would never do this with 2nd pair on this flop now everyone has to at least consider this in his range.

#1 - It's Olivier Busquet, not Oliver, and there's only one of him playing so no "s" at the end of his name.

#2 - Busquet could easily sense shenanigins on Mueller's limp and figured him to be stronger than his limp would indicate. Maybe - easy to say now, BUT... The flop comes and again Busquet correctly deduces it is just a C-bet from Mueller (a pretty strong one at that that screams go away) and he has not hit that flop - so let's find out by coming over the top. After all, Busquet knows that Mueller knows that he literally can have any two cards since he did not have to commit more than his BB to see the flop. Mueller would have to have a 9 to crush him - making Busquet odds on favorite to have best hand. Time to bet it hard and not allow room for a suck out. Is it second nature for you to know that the odds of Mueller hitting that flop is only about 30%? It is for these guys.

#3 - You do not say what their stacks are (VERY IMPORTANT INFO)- but I find people get genuinely confused by pro play because they fail to take that into account. Look at the crazy plays at WSOP or WPT final tables you see. Why did they do it? Hell, why not? They are usually sitting at a "massive" number of big blinds and can afford to shift to a LAGtard gear and spin the wheel of fortune. The worst they figure can happen is lose 2% of their stack AND cultivate an image that induces action from the other players down the road.

U could just say he was playing the man not the cards and he knew he had nothing

I think this play is valid versus just about anyone - if you are stacked for it.

#14

29th December 2012, 10:36 PM

vinylspiros [4,368]

Online Poker at: pokerstars

Game: NLHE

To OP. he reraised to protect his hand and see where he was at.i would have done the same thing. esp on such a crappy board. by calling he would not have any information as to his opponents strength. by reraising he can more or less get a better feeling about what is going on in combination with picking up the pot right then and there.