r the controversy over the so-called Ground Zero Mosque, which mushroomed into a national crisis after blogger Pam Geller captured the media's attention despite having a tiny audience and a propensity to compare Muslim-tolerant Jews to Nazi sympathizers or suggest that critical journalists are training to be suicide bombers. If the media hadn't paid attention to them, would they have mattered?

So what can be done to break this feedback loop?

The media could actually do their jobs and report on what people do and say. Rather than refer to Pamela geller as an "anti-jihad blogger" (oh how goddamn brave you are), or a "conservative activist", she could be described as someone who compares her opponents to Nazis and who thinks Obama is Malcolm X's son.

Michele Bachmann could be referred to as the woman who thinks most liberal organizations should be investigated for anti-American activities, rather than "conservative firebrand" or "congressional ally to the Tea Party movement".

Meh, they haven't won anything. In fact they have put themselves in a position that will lose in the long run. Hysteria is never permanent. Continuing this irrational fear mongering will only marginalize them further as time goes on.

FlashHarry:farking assholes. i'm no fan of religion - any religion. but i think their hatred is based more in racism than religion. if most muslims were white, i doubt we'd be having this conversation.

I think you're being too forgiving. Race and color aren't helping in the case of Muslims. But there's no limit to their intolerance and outright hate. Crap, alot of them don't even think Methodists are true Protestants.

BSABSVR:r the controversy over the so-called Ground Zero Mosque, which mushroomed into a national crisis after blogger Pam Geller captured the media's attention despite having a tiny audience and a propensity to compare Muslim-tolerant Jews to Nazi sympathizers or suggest that critical journalists are training to be suicide bombers. If the media hadn't paid attention to them, would they have mattered?

So what can be done to break this feedback loop?

The media could actually do their jobs and report on what people do and say. Rather than refer to Pamela geller as an "anti-jihad blogger" (oh how goddamn brave you are), or a "conservative activist", she could be described as someone who compares her opponents to Nazis and who thinks Obama is Malcolm X's son.

Michele Bachmann could be referred to as the woman who thinks most liberal organizations should be investigated for anti-American activities, rather than "conservative firebrand" or "congressional ally to the Tea Party movement".

Stop treating everything like "he said-she said" and do your jobs.

sammyk:Meh, they haven't won anything. In fact they have put themselves in a position that will lose in the long run. Hysteria is never permanent. Continuing this irrational fear mongering will only marginalize them further as time goes on.

Diogenes:FlashHarry: farking assholes. i'm no fan of religion - any religion. but i think their hatred is based more in racism than religion. if most muslims were white, i doubt we'd be having this conversation.

I think you're being too forgiving. Race and color aren't helping in the case of Muslims. But there's no limit to their intolerance and outright hate. Crap, alot of them don't even think Methodists are true Protestants.

Yeah. Methodists haven't signed on for burning the homogheys yet, so they're suspect.

Let's face it. There is always going to be a certain percentage of people who will rabidly hate, demonize, loathe, despise, and abhor anyone who isn't exactly like them. For the moment, in this country, they're in the minority. You wouldn't know that by the way they carry on, though.

It's disturbing how the press has dropped the ball in recent years, treating every wingnut as if they're an expert on the chosen topic. Since when have we been presenting "all sides" when that means tacitly suggesting that the 2+2=13 crowd has as valid a point as those who believe 2+2=4?

In the day, the Bachmann brigade weren't hailed as an alternative opinion. They were ignored, and certainly never featured on cable 'news' discussion panels as experts in the field.

dickfreckle:It's disturbing how the press has dropped the ball in recent years, treating every wingnut as if they're an expert on the chosen topic. Since when have we been presenting "all sides" when that means tacitly suggesting that the 2+2=13 crowd has as valid a point as those who believe 2+2=4?

They do it because the press is the now the "Media" and the "Media" is big business. The "Media" lets morans like this have their own soapbox because people watch it. Those of us who think they are evil, idiot farks watch it because we hate them. Those who think like the evil idiot farks watch it because it validates their evil idiot farkery.

Ennuipoet:dickfreckle: It's disturbing how the press has dropped the ball in recent years, treating every wingnut as if they're an expert on the chosen topic. Since when have we been presenting "all sides" when that means tacitly suggesting that the 2+2=13 crowd has as valid a point as those who believe 2+2=4?

They do it because the press is the now the "Media" and the "Media" is big business. The "Media" lets morans like this have their own soapbox because people watch it. Those of us who think they are evil, idiot farks watch it because we hate them. Those who think like the evil idiot farks watch it because it validates their evil idiot farkery.

Not only that, but when an outlet consistently calls out members of a party that is run by derpmeisters for their derp, i.e. MSNBC, that outlet gets grouped into the same sort of company as Fox News Channel by folks who are desperate to seem "moderate".

somedude210:If only we had made it a requirement when we gave the rights to the TV wavelengths, that all channels had to show 1 hour of non-commercialized news. Imagine what life could've been like....

I don't like any religions at all, including Islam. There's just this cognitive disconnect. I've known people who, otherwise appearing normal and intelligent, are fervent believers who can't accept any other concept about their origins or future (big bang and a dirt nap?)

somedude210:If only we had made it a requirement when we gave the rights to the TV wavelengths, that all channels had to show 1 hour of non-commercialized news. Imagine what life could've been like....

Non-commercialized news? Like CSPAN? I mean, unless you simply state facts after each other, you're inputting a bias. This has gotten more extreme as time has gone on, but it's impossible to separate bias from news reporting.

FlashHarry:farking assholes. i'm no fan of religion - any religion. but i think their hatred is based more in racism than religion. if most muslims were white, i doubt we'd be having this conversation.

Right now it's pretty easy to tell a Muslim from a non-Muslim; Muslims are brown and their women wear scarves over their heads, sometimes covering their entire body. (see slashies) Just imagine if half of the 9/11 bombers had brown hair, three had blond hair, a few were black, the leader was a ginger and the rest were Asian, and the group who declared war on the USA could look like any American at all.

By Christmas 2001 there would have been Joe McCarthy 2.0, with all the 21st century technology, all levels of US government on board for anything that would help "save" the country. Worse, it would likely divide the nation by fear that anyone could be a terrorist... even your own family.

So yeah, the racism is bad, but it could be far worse.

/Yes, it's a huge generalization. I used to work with a blond haired, blue eyed former Christian woman who converted to Islam for reasons that she tried to explain to me but made no sense. Something about being a better woman because she's a Muslim now and can wear the veil.

kbotc:somedude210: If only we had made it a requirement when we gave the rights to the TV wavelengths, that all channels had to show 1 hour of non-commercialized news. Imagine what life could've been like....

Non-commercialized news? Like CSPAN? I mean, unless you simply state facts after each other, you're inputting a bias. This has gotten more extreme as time has gone on, but it's impossible to separate bias from news reporting.

NPR's hourly news reports are pretty unbias. BBC is fairly unbiased. They'll ask questions, but their intent seems to be more about what the story actually is, than trying to make a story out of nothing

FlashHarry:farking assholes. i'm no fan of religion - any religion. but i think their hatred is based more on the complete incompatibility of Islam with Enlightenment thinkingin racism than religion. if most muslims left the dark ageswere white, i doubt we'd be having this conversation.

They win because when you portray the anti-sharia side as being anti-Muslim what do you expect?

Shariah law has some pretty brutal allowances. I don't understand how people who criticize the crazy things that orthodox Jews do try and concern troll over disdain for the crazy things permitted under Shariah.

sammyk:Meh, they haven't won anything. In fact they have put themselves in a position that will lose in the long run. Hysteria is never permanent. Continuing this irrational fear mongering will only marginalize them further as time goes on.

Yeah. Let's just ask the residents of Constantinople what they think of the Religion of Peace.

MadSkillz:I don't like any religions at all, including Islam. There's just this cognitive disconnect. I've known people who, otherwise appearing normal and intelligent, are fervent believers who can't accept any other concept about their origins or future (big bang and a dirt nap?)

People who fervently believe they know exactly how the universe began and exactly what happens to their consciousness when they die are always annoying. Better off not to claim anything at all.

I don't like any religions at all, including Islam. There's just this cognitive disconnect. I've known people who, otherwise appearing normal and intelligent, are fervent believers who can't accept any other concept about their origins or future (big bang and a dirt nap?)

Interesting. Except the above poster so far, it's like all the fark atheists who were posting pretty loudly in the Charlie Brown Christmas thread suddenly just disappeared. I thought any possible attempt by religion to mix with government is wrong (Sharia would be that situation - the govt would accomodate it as a legal system within our secular legal system) no matter if it's Christian, Muslim, Buddhism, etc. etc.

somedude210:If only we had made it a requirement when we gave the rights to the TV wavelengths, that all channels had to show 1 hour of non-commercialized news. Imagine what life could've been like....

Hell, I don't know a single person in my general age group (mid-to-late 20s) who regularly watches TV news; be it a nightly newscast on the broadcast networks or any of the cable news channels.

Now, plenty of those "cool" bloggers, "edgy" podcasts, and other examples of these hip alternative media outlets (which I read/listen to myself) have their own biases and faults, but I'm pretty sure generation Y at least is largely unaffected by mainstream talking points.

trivial use of my dark powers:Diogenes: FlashHarry: farking assholes. i'm no fan of religion - any religion. but i think their hatred is based more in racism than religion. if most muslims were white, i doubt we'd be having this conversation.

I think you're being too forgiving. Race and color aren't helping in the case of Muslims. But there's no limit to their intolerance and outright hate. Crap, alot of them don't even think Methodists are true Protestants.

Yeah. Methodists haven't signed on for burning the homogheys yet, so they're suspect.

AHEM.

From the Book of Discipline of the United Methodist Church:

¶ 304.3

While persons set apart by the Church for ordained ministry are subject to all the frailties of the human condition and the pressures of society, they are required to maintain the highest standards of holy living in the world. The practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching. [emp. mine] Therefore self-avowed practicing homosexuals1 are not to be certified as candidates, ordained as ministers, or appointed to serve in The United Methodist Church.21. "Self-avowed practicing homosexual" is understood to mean that a person openly acknowledges to a bishop, district superintendent, district committee of ordained ministry, board of ordained ministry, or clergy session that the person is a practicing homosexual. See Judicial Council Decisions 702, 708, 722, 725, 764, 844, 984.2. See Judicial Council Decisions 984, 985.

This, the fact that they refuse to admit that Jesus of Nazareth was fully human and only adopted by God after his baptism by John on the Jordan River, and their heinous papist practice of "baptising" infants who cannot know what is happening let alone accept it, are why I view them as heretics. And don't give me that Paul nonsense: the so-called Epistles of Paul, the Book of Acts and the "Gospel" of John are spurious later accretions canonized for Roman political reasons. But anyway.

As noted above, the UMC is fully and firmly on board in denying church office and full recognition to "self-avowed practicing homosexuals." Most Methodists I've met are nice enough and would not condone queerbashing, and there is a growing minority within the church to scrap the anti-gay stuff, but the enlightened position has not yet gained formal official acceptance by any General Conference.

The Muslims do a good enough job of killing and hating each other without us getting into the act too.

/ I am always reminded of Peter O'Toole as Lawrence of Arabia, "So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people; a silly people; greedy, barbarous, and cruel, as you are."

MaudlinMutantMollusk:BSABSVR: r the controversy over the so-called Ground Zero Mosque, which mushroomed into a national crisis after blogger Pam Geller captured the media's attention despite having a tiny audience and a propensity to compare Muslim-tolerant Jews to Nazi sympathizers or suggest that critical journalists are training to be suicide bombers. If the media hadn't paid attention to them, would they have mattered?

So what can be done to break this feedback loop?

The media could actually do their jobs and report on what people do and say. Rather than refer to Pamela geller as an "anti-jihad blogger" (oh how goddamn brave you are), or a "conservative activist", she could be described as someone who compares her opponents to Nazis and who thinks Obama is Malcolm X's son.

Michele Bachmann could be referred to as the woman who thinks most liberal organizations should be investigated for anti-American activities, rather than "conservative firebrand" or "congressional ally to the Tea Party movement".

Stop treating everything like "he said-she said" and do your jobs.

sammyk: Meh, they haven't won anything. In fact they have put themselves in a position that will lose in the long run. Hysteria is never permanent. Continuing this irrational fear mongering will only marginalize them further as time goes on.

SO.MUCH.THIS.

/stop treating raging lunatics like they have valid points

And this again.

There just aren't always two sides to every issue. The media doesn't always have to give fair time and equal treatment to nutjobs when it's obvious they are nutjobs. And just because they can "get their message out via social media and the Internet" doesn't mean you HAVE to interview them for airtime on MSNBC.

Except that fox news does not have many journalists. entertainers and programmers, yes. journalism? not so much

I was thinking more of CNN, or even print media. Nobody is going to refer to a holocaust denier as a " controversial student of German history", you don't need to call Pam Geller a "conservative activist".

They haven't "won" anything, but simply put a bunch of irrational fears into low-information morons whose kind are dying out. The younger generations care nothing for those farktards and their bullshiat. The scaremongering about "creeping sharia" is working on us about as well as the threats of a "Communist, Kenyan, radical, president".

Anyway, I would call Pam Geller a coont, but that would be insulting to coonts.

kbotc:somedude210: If only we had made it a requirement when we gave the rights to the TV wavelengths, that all channels had to show 1 hour of non-commercialized news. Imagine what life could've been like....

Non-commercialized news? Like CSPAN? I mean, unless you simply state facts after each other, you're inputting a bias. This has gotten more extreme as time has gone on, but it's impossible to separate bias from news reporting.

Actually, news bias used to be much worse than it is now. Didn't your American history classes talk about Yellow Journalism?