Posted:2nd Nov 2002Prepare to laugh your asses off at my latest theory........but don't think by it that I'm in need of a new girlfriend coz you're all far more evil than guys are - lol

Right, having made a monster out of myself yesterday with a friend (or maybe ex-friend now) I felt the need for a minor rant and some advice from other nice fluffy bouncy peeps.

OK, I've devoted a large proportion of my life to being nice (, excludes rants and losses of temper). I don't like not being friendly with everyone and although I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if someone didn't like me, I don't act in an unfriendly way without some provocation EVER.It's just not at a base level who I am. (Especially having met u guys)

Right:- Here's the dilemma:- Total wankers end up with sweet, caring, nice, fluffy, cute girls.Nice guys end up with mates.Correct me if I iz wrong........

Up until I gave up the shagging around principal 6months ago (OK semi-gave it up), and started with the whole "run round getting hugz whilst hanging round for Miss perfect" ideology. I'd heard "no, can't do that we're mates" as an excuse about once a month since I moved here 2 years ago.This I feel is the worst excuse I've ever heard....but hey...that's probably a misguided guy thing. Why would having a mate as a boyfriend be bad?This leads to.....Theory 2.Nice guys = boringWankers = Exciting/Dangerous

My mate Justins theory is that women aren't happy unless they have a "fixer-upper" that they are under the VERY MISGUIDED view that they can change for the better - Muhahahahaha (99% of the time - It doesn't happen, I'm really sorry)

I have at current count 10 really close "shoulder to cry on" female mates and about 30 who wouldn't ever consider me anything but a mate.(I think I've more or less fucked it up with every girl I know, so this is all academic at the moment anyway,) but I've asked my girl mates what I'm doing wrong and they reckon I'm "being too nice".....this I was assuming was a blatant attempt at making me feel better but having not acted on it I now feel like I should have.

As things are headed now, I may just be destined to be "classic mate material".....Which is not the end of the world but at some point, I iz gonna have to fill up the big space in my life that is currently being plugged with hugz and mates.

I have to laugh at the amount of girl "mates" that I have, especially when they only ever go out with idiots that aren't any good for them.

My view up until recently was that I didn't want someone who I didn't get on with on a friendly matey level, but that doesn't appear to be the way most of yous females types think. (I could be wrong, I do it a lot)

I am now destined to be single forever (cue violins/melodrama - ) unless I stop making friends with all the girls I meet, but does this mean I have to start acting like every other guy I know and start screwing women over?I'm really hoping someone can just turn round and say "no man you've got it all wrong", u need to do this.....Failing that I'm going to China to be a budddhist monk. - hehehehe

Posted:5th Nov 2002I would like to say that first I am a very confident woman. When I realize something that I want at that moment I make an effort to achieve it. Be it a relationship with a certain guy or a skill etc.... I would also consider myself a 'nice girl'. At the same time I am able to be short with fuckwits that approach me in unacceptable ways. When it comes to a guy I like then it is much harder to be less forgiving and short with them because I want to allow them to make mistakes. Now this is where I go wrong (I am thinking).... In my experience being the 'nice girl' is being the girl that takes unnecessary shit (until she decides to leave), and it is being the girl that will wait for them to realize how good she really was to them, THIS CAN BE APPLIED TO NICE GUYS AND WANKERS!

I think sometimes the nice guys are worse than the wankers cause you don't expect them to be so horrible. And when they are you keep thinking well no they aren't really like this - so you let it happen 2 more times and then you have to give up on it. I don't think there is such a thing as a 'nice guy' or a 'wanker'. There are men who know what they want and men who don't. The ladder being the 'wanker'.

Posted:5th Nov 2002I think girls like guys that are 'nice' but not too nice that they will let people walk all over them!

I prefer 'nice' guys, but its often hard to know who is a nice guy and who is not . They might turn out to be wankers after pretending to be nice.

Thing is, if you like someone, you are better to approach them that way, not build up a friendship with someone and then try and work on the attraction. I prefer having a partner who is also my best friend, which takes time. Becoming mates with someone and then trying it on with them is not a good idea. Friendship often ends in love but love in friendship never. Thats why so many people are wary of ruining a good friendship for the sake of a relationship that may or may not work out.

Instead of trying to show someone what a nice guy you are first - go for it. Then you can show them what a nice guy you are and get nooky at the same time.

well that is my advice for you anyhow.

Oh and I also think that guys want a nice girl with a great body to live happily ever after with, until a younger version comes along. before you protest men - its not your fault, its your male instincts and not really your fault that you are slaves to your natures conditioning and hence behave like wankers to us ladies! Just like us ladies are programmed to choose someone that appears strong and virile

Me Woman - You man, very elementary and all, but when it comes to attraction our brains are not in control.

Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

Posted:5th Nov 2002quote:Originally posted by Magnus:You need to spend a few hours reading the material at Fast Seduction .com.

Yes, it's oriented on how to pull women in the shortest length of time possible, but it also offers the best take on the workings of the female mind that exists anywhere.

Well being interested in these matter and of what men also think I decided to take some time and take Magnus' advice and read this site. WOW This site has made me feel so shitty that it is crazy. This is so un-HOP of you. I really hope that you don't share the comments made by some of these men. It is so distructive - If the woman is a HB(hotbabe) she is probably stupid and the goal is to fuck her. If the girl is an UG(ugly) then she should get skinny, do anything to look like a model etc.... It is so unrealistic and it digusts me.

Please take a look at the metering system used on this forum:

quote: The Mystery Rating System:

1-7.5 is an UG7.6-8.4 is a B or Babe8.5-10 is a HBand the TV gorgeous SHB (super hot babe) is 10.1+The Formhandle Rating System:

1-5 is an UG (blech) 30% of all chicks6 is a neutral until screened for personality6.5 is a B or Babe (50% of the chicks run into on average)7-8.4 is an everyday HB (waitress, receptionist, cheerleader, 10% of all chicks)8.5-9 is an eye-catching HB (magazine model, stripper, aeobics instructor, 6% of all chicks)9.5 is high-quality HB (girl-next-door who could be model/TV personality, healthy, natural, intelligent, 3% of all chicks)10 is SHB, less than 1% of all chicksOn my scale, 1 out of 5 chicks are fuckable before getting to know them and, of the remaining 4 only 1 of them might be fuckable after getting to know them.Thanks for the post Magnus - maybe you can make some other people feel like shit today

Posted:5th Nov 2002I was a nice guy in high-school and didn't get any dates. Became a jerk in college and did get dates. Hrm.

Lately I've been keeping Pele on her toes by being a jerk sometimes and a nice-guy others. I figure that if women can switch between bitch and sweet-heart it's only fair.

The others used quotes so I will to. This joke has the nice-guy vs jerk-guy ideals.Guy 1: "I sneak in after a night of drinking and my wife gives me hell."Guy 2: "Heck bud you're doing it wrong. Enter the house loud, clomp to the bed, slap the wife on the butt and exclaim that it's time for lovin'. I guarantee that she'll pretend to sleep and won't yell at you."

FYI: I am not Pele. If you wish to reply to me and use a short version of my name, use: PWB.

Posted:5th Nov 2002why do you feel you need to date in the first place?

i may be only 17 but i no longer date, have sex, get involved with people more than friends. and it's the greatest, most love-filled, least lonely, happiest time of my life.

you're all talking as if finding someone to be with is your goal in life. why? alright i'm starting a new topic on this one.

but anyhoo, if you are going to date, why the bloody hell would you change yourself over it?unless this is your life goal, you shouldn't be changing the one who's life it is. and if it happens to be your life goal, then why would you want to end up with someone who dislikes themself enough to date a jerk-off like yer new self?

Jade Lynx said it best. if you want to get laid, then by all means, change yourself, become an asshole to get a piece of superficial ass and more likely than not hurt someone in the process.

if you want love, then be yourself. that's the only way you can find someone who loves YOU.

it's a shame we live in a world where everyone is so obsessed with finding the perfect partner. if it's a soulmate you're looking for, then shouldn't the soul be the part that matters?

if you want love, then be yourself. that's the only way you can find someone who loves YOU.

it's a shame we live in a world where everyone is so obsessed with finding the perfect partner. if it's a soulmate you're looking for, then shouldn't the soul be the part that matters?Very Insightful iluminaryfaerie. Everyone should ignore the bullshit they see and read. Just keep thinking this and it will make sense. Thanks for helping me see some clearly today.

Posted:5th Nov 2002Thanks for all your PM's on this but just to re-iterate:I'M NOT LOOKING -

Thank you for your time on this. - lol

Like I say this all came up coz I has lots of female mates, one of which (non-poi spinner, yes I have non-spinner mates......) decided to have a right bitch about it and I told her to start going out with nice guys. She laughed at me and said they were a bit boring.....I told her to shut the fuck up and got offended.And took it out on several other people.

My other main problem is that, if I just want to shag someone (not very often) then I can quite happily walk up with the whole "I just wanna shag you" air about me, and don't really care if they tell me to fuck off or whatever.....(did give up casual sex thing though)- and I haven't been ACTIVELY looking since I broke up with my ex-fiancee.I don't normally get too far but I do sometimes, and to hell with the consequncesif I don't.

If I really fall for someone (this is only once in 2 and a half years BTW but I did it LOADS as a nippa) then I go all mushy/gooey and act like a twat......don't persue it too hard in case I frighten them, and then have this HUGE fear thing whereby I don't flirt enough/be all sex-orientated. Just wondering if this was in any way subtly to do with not being "Super alpha-male sex god or whatever" and hence me no get laid.

Posted:5th Nov 2002Mate, I wouldn't worry too much about it, I'm not what you might call a "ladies man" but I know if I keep myself in the background and keep my eyes peeled, them someday I'll find the perfect woman for me and then I'll make her notice me (I hope)!!

I used to wory about not having a girlfriend but after 2 1/2 years of relationship so full of turmoil, love, lust, problems and hate I realised I didn't need to be in a relationship!!

Posted:5th Nov 2002I wrote a longer reply to this the other day, but my computer froze and I lost it, then didn't have time to rewrite it. So, here are the main points, distilled out a bit.

* It depends what you're looking for. You want a meaningful relationship then you have to wait for one to happy mutually, not go hunting or manipulate to get one. If you're after a random shag might it might be easier to use an escort agency.* Stop being so pathetic and using a pathetic excuse. I know, I've uttered it in the past, and know I was wrong. * Be who you are. Never compromise who you are in order to attain something. If you're being a wanker in order to get girls then you're an even bigger wanker and a liar and you won't be happy because you're liying to yourself and everyone else. * "at some point, I iz gonna have to fill up the big space in my life that is currently being plugged with hugz and mates" What? Why? If you have a big whole in your life then you have to fill it yourself before you even think about sharing some of yourself with someone else. Relationships are 2 people sharing life, not 2 people emotionally supporting each other. If you're looking for a whole to be filled then getting someone to fill it for you is not the answer. Almost all of the healthy, balanced and rewarding relationships I know involve people who are already complete.* You want proof the whole "nice guys come last" thing is crap? Well, I could give you proof, but I won't. Surfice to say I know lots of 'nice' guys in great relationships.* The "no, can't do that we're mates" excuse is a polite way of saying "No, sorry, don't fancy you." Many guys find it hard to accept that just because a girl is nice to him it doesn't mean they fancy you. Almost everyone in cross-sex friendships and encounters experiences that underlying possibility of something deeper, but it happens a lot less often than it actually does.* True friendships can be more rewarding then flase 'relationships'.

Posted:5th Nov 2002Fair enough, different people bring out different parts of our personality. But when it comes to the point that I would have to change myself to suit someone else (who is supposed to like me for me anyway), I couldn't be bothered.

As I think I said before, there may be plenty of NICE boys out there, but there doesn't seem to be anyone CRAZY enough to handle me. It kinda hurts when you DO meet CRAZY guys who once they realise they aren't going to get an immediate shag, don't at least want to be mates.

Sorry guys, Im just a little bit hurt frustrated and pissed off w my love life at the moment...

Posted:5th Nov 2002I know where you are coming from. I want to say "bollocks to men", but the reality is I know some awesome men at the moment. (Unfortunately, most of them are not in Australia!!!) . Chances are some time soon I will meet someone who is a nice guy, a friend and someone who makes my heart race.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

Posted:5th Nov 2002Ahhh... this rant is so familiar to me... suffice it to say High School was a desperate time for me, but I'm much better off now

Looking at the psychology of this matter you have to realize two things about women, relationships, and rejection. I don't claim any of this is true, but I read it somewhere and it was incredibly interesting so I thought I'd share and maybe offer a different insight.

Firstly, if someone (ANYone) is complaining about an ex, chances are they'll tend to highlight the bad qualities. They can speak volumes about the numerous ways their needs were not met. With this mindset, they're not very likely to say good things about their former significant other, and so naturally you'd think they had dated the worst gutter trash of society.

Secondly (PLEASE nobody rail me for this, I'm just paraphrasing a relationship psych book), I read that women are expected to behave a certain way in society (duh) and part of that includes "letting someone down politely." Guys can just outright say no to a chick and give their reasons bluntly - women tend to behave a little more tactfully with the reassurances that you're still "good friend" material, despite the fact they wouldn't date you if you were the last guy on earth.

Combine these two theories and you've got a ticking timebomb of miscommunication, no?

Personally, I find the best turndown I ever got was a flat-out "no way." No excuses, no trying to make me feel better... sure she was a callous b**** at the time but we stayed friends and it just kinda got brushed under the rug with no hard feelings.

and this not nice that youre feeling this way and that you have to deal with all this stoof at once. you dont deserve it * sends virtual HOP flowers *

whether you are looking or not, its still obviously a subject that effects you alot. dont let it! be happy, be the person you are and there is no way that you wont get someone who truely truely loves you. as already stated its not the whole world to be with someone, or even to be the type of person others want to be with. its about being you (not everyone being you doh) and being loved, freind, soulmate, lover wise as you are and being happy that youve this amazing impact on ppl that makes them want to know you

not sure if it makes anysensecheck your pm's hunlolli x x

My spelling wobbles. its very good spelling but it wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong place

The nice people of the world do get loved. Enjoy being yourself, stay true to who you are (a wonderful, caring, funny, lovely guy) and stop worrying. And before you know it a princess will fall for you and everything will seem so simple and easy. Just let it happen.

Posted:6th Nov 2002...Thinking about this topic on my drive home (as I am unable to practice poi while driving...)

I think it's also important to bring something ELSE to the table. Nobody wants a guy or girl who's just "nice"... If that's all that's on the list, who would want them? I have some friends that are utterly unable to project anything but "niceness"... some even are girls. And then they wonder why nobody takes interest in them. Reflecting on my own platonic friendships I often see that I am just projecting "niceness" without anything else as I don't want those relationships to go anywhere. If I do get flirty or silly or funny it sometimes gets misconstrued as hitting on... but that's another story. And, recently, I've not wanted things to happen so I can enjoy being on my own for a while, so I've kept othersides of me from being projected and it's worked wonderfully. JUST being nice is relationship kryptonite. Being nice as the cherry on top of other flirtatious qualities is the way to go if you're looking for something to happen.

Sorry about the babbling, but I do often debate this topic and am enjoying other's responses...

Posted:7th Nov 2002Am very much with NYC and Dom on the subject and would like to add one thing.

i have often thought i am too nice and not enough good looking and too this and not enough that : bullocks !!!

i do sadly think that cold bitches and cruel manipulative men tend to get laid more than otehrs. I also admit that good looking men and women do tend to be hit on more often than "us humans" BUT BUT BUT when it comes to love we are all so very much at the same level with the same chances.

it is just as hard for anyone to find meaningfull exciting, true, beautiful relationship with someone.

And for that reason i gave up worrying most of the time (we all have our insecurities ). the more I tried to make it happen and wondered what was wrong with me, the less attractive I was to oters. the more i started not caring and decided to smile and just live and not particularly look for someone to fill in the void i felt, the more I got to meet interesting beautiful people.... and I know that love is round the corner if you stop obsessively looking around every corner.

When you start thinking there is nothing wrong with you and enjoy your life, then that is what you will project and it will make a huge difference !!!

Beleive in yourself and enjoy what you have, it is such a gift !!!!!

Don't change, don't cheat, stay who you are and ... SHINE ON

Much love and respectCassandra

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil...""So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ...""NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Posted:7th Nov 2002cassandre.yer right on the money. omg! get off the money, it's gross and dirty and evil!!!! *saves you from the evils of money*now that that's over with, i like yer point of view. i've never actually stopped to think that maybe there's nothing wrong with me. just always tried to improve shit. that's a great state of mind. i give you a gold star *smack*

Posted:7th Nov 2002NYC: I did kinda get bitch-slapped for being arrogant iluminaryfaerie : OK, but there's a waiting list

Funny story. I had a relationship with my best friend. By far it was the best relationship I have ever known. We finally got together when I ignored her one night in favour of the blonde sitting on my lap She got jealous, sulked, then we got together. The moral of the story: be nice, be yourself, but don't be taken for granted.

I have emitted that kinda feel without consciously noticing it for long periods of time when I haven't wanted another relationship, and I definitely do it with people I don't fancy.Even my flirting has been friendly and the people I do it with know that there's nothing in it.

Problem is it becomes habit.......and sooner or later you can just act that way with everyone.

Posted:7th Nov 2002Love Relationships are like car accidents to me.when i looked carefully, there were less accidents!when i didn't look, BAM!Cassandra is sooo right about the 'corner' idea. i'd say that the persona that you grow when you are relaxed and love life is an attractive one.A 'content demenour' is also hard to spell.well, at least the 'demeanour' bit.Although many of the generalisations mentioned on this thread are very valid, i'd like to add, that the unpredictable element of individual preference skews the results Especially people like me who find stupidity cute oops i say too march!