Try doing a degree in politics, full of them. Being a centre-right person on a politics degree is akin to growing a stamp shaped moustache and a bad side parting.

This so much. Was fun. I remember I was once refused membership of a political party on campus - one which I was perfectly willing to pay my membership fee, and complete any paper work required. Probably for the best, I don't know whether being a member of "The Bloody Feminists" would have worked out in the long run.

29-04-2010, 09:10 AM

cover drive man

That's a whole other debate in itself though. I would argue that someone being influenced without knowing the real reason why would be classed as subliminal.

29-04-2010, 09:11 AM

Matt79

Quote:

Originally Posted by pasag

It's not subliminal advertising.

drink coke

Yeah, its not subliminal, it's making use of associations you probably have with items you can clearly see ARE there in the advertisement.

Now to go get a refreshing fizzy drink...

29-04-2010, 09:12 AM

Matt79

Quote:

Originally Posted by cover drive man

That's a whole other debate in itself though. I would argue that someone being influenced without knowing the real reason why would be classed as subliminal.

Careful boyo, that's the road to banning booby girls in ads! :-O

29-04-2010, 09:15 AM

pasag

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goughy

CDM, you will be happy to know that I went out for a beer tonight with a good friend of mine who was a former Chief of Staff for a long standing US Congressman and I brought this post up and we had a long chat on topics related to this.

Ill type up some notes to hopefully provide some, I think fascinating, insight from a US perspective (which is a close relative of Britain) about what makes people vote a certain way. EDIT- Done, see below

Overview

<snip>

The lines between politics and marketing are blurring quite a bit, so much so that we now have a field of marketing called 'political marketing' which has its own academic journal incidentally (very interesting stuff, did some work on it and was going to do my thesis on it at one stage). I could reword your entire (great post), replacing candidates with brands/products and the entire thing would ring equally as true.

29-04-2010, 09:17 AM

Goughy

Quote:

Originally Posted by cover drive man

"University political debates are so heated because the stakes are so low"-Henry Kissinger

Interesting read goughy, as far as I knew subliminal advertisement was illegal. And looking at what you've posted it seems to be border-line subliminal. What do we do to combat this though? Surely we can't let the majority of votes fall to looks and sub conscious thoughts and feelings. It almost puts me back in the misanthropic thoughts of "Democracy doesn't work, simply because people are idiots."

I dont think its subliminal, dishonest or unethical at all. Its just a different strategy. For a long time politicians have wanted to get their supporters out to vote and done so by arguing their policies and positions. This is a little dated now.

The thought behind this is that people are going to vote anyway and many are not going to know the positions of the candidates. To win you need to position your candidates name as something positive in the mind of the voter and when it comes to vote they have a positive opinion of the candidate and their name in their head. Its something as simple as that that swings elections.

For a key part of the electorate (ie those that will vote but are not followers of the policies and the campaign) this is an important part of determining how they vote regardless of party.

29-04-2010, 09:21 AM

cover drive man

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goughy

I dont think its subliminal, dishonest or unethical at all. Its just a different strategy. For a long time politicians have wanted to get their supporters out to vote and done so by arguing their policies and positions. This is a little dated now.

The thought behind this is that people are going to vote anyway and many are not going to know the positions of the candidates. To win you need to position your candidates name as something positive in the mind of the voter and when it comes to vote they have a positive opinion of the candidate and their name in their head. Its something as simple as that that swings elections.

For a key part of the electorate (ie those that will vote but are not followes of the policies and the campaign) this is an important part of determining how they vote regardless of party.

I don't think it's right. You should support a party/politician because you believe they'll do good for your constituency/country. Not because the campaign poster looks good.

29-04-2010, 09:23 AM

pasag

Quote:

Originally Posted by cover drive man

That's a whole other debate in itself though. I would argue that someone being influenced without knowing the real reason why would be classed as subliminal.

Yes, but it's still not Subliminal Advertising which refers to a very specific sort of advertising such as flashing a product image during a movie so quickly that you can't see the brand, yet it sticks around in your subconscious. Last time I did any research into the matter its effectiveness had been discredited.

29-04-2010, 09:23 AM

Mr Casson

Quote:

Originally Posted by cover drive man

I don't think it's right. You should support a party/politician because you believe they'll do good for your constituency/country. Not because the campaign poster looks good.

Well what about in a country like Australia where everyone has to vote anyway? Does it make or better or worse that people would use marketing tactics as a part of their election strategy?

29-04-2010, 09:26 AM

Matt79

Quote:

Originally Posted by cover drive man

I don't think it's right. You should support a party/politician because you believe they'll do good for your constituency/country. Not because the campaign poster looks good.

Do you think anyone who's swayed by a poster's appearance is capable of determining whether a pollie will actually be the best choice for the electorate? Besides, both sides do it. What else do you want to ban? Candidates wearing suits and having respectable haircuts? Candidates not swearing at ignorant proles they're forced to interact with?

29-04-2010, 09:34 AM

pasag

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt79

Do you think anyone who's swayed by a poster's appearance is capable of determining whether a pollie will actually be the best choice for the electorate? Besides, both sides do it. What else do you want to ban? Candidates wearing suits and having respectable haircuts? Candidates not swearing at ignorant proles they're forced to interact with?

Did you see that move to bad all cigarette branding on packaging here (ie every brand of smokes has to look the same on the shelf - white)? Will have VERY interesting effects one way or another if ever implemented.

29-04-2010, 09:35 AM

Matt79

I reckon it will have nil effect to be honest, in terms of the number of ciggies sold. The mix of what brands sell will likely change I imagine, and a 'homebrand' style might start doing better. But they're basically not allowed to advertise anywhere, so its just meant to be removing a visual cue of addiction.

That said, so much of the cost of ciggies is taxes and excises, there's little room for a cut-piece 'homebrand' line to make any impact.

29-04-2010, 09:38 AM

andyc

Completely off topic, but have been enjoying your posts about marketing recently, Gelman. Have been really considering taking it on as a major for my commerce degree (doing an Asian studies degree as well), currently a toss up between that or international business since they're the only two that interest me. Marketing winning out atm since it doesn't seem to be as much of a vague piece of **** major as international business.

29-04-2010, 09:41 AM

Mr Casson

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyc

Completely off topic, but have been enjoying your posts about marketing recently, Gelman. Have been really considering taking it on as a major for my commerce degree (doing an Asian studies degree as well), currently a toss up between that or international business since they're the only two that interest me. Marketing winning out atm since it doesn't seem to be as much of a vague piece of **** major as international business.

If you're not interested in a vague piece of **** major, I'd recommend getting out of Asian Studies then. :)

29-04-2010, 09:42 AM

Matt79

Wish I'd done more marketing in my commerce degree. I did management because it was easy, and at the time I found marketing to be depressingly exploitative. But having now lived in the real world, I reckon it would have been a more useful set of studies.