The policy goes on to highlight that members should refrain from hand gestures which “denote disagreement” or “indicate disagreement with a point or points being made.”

I presume/hope that many of the liberals on here will agree this is preposterous and a bridge too far. But does anyone wish to defend the idea that students should be accorded a safe space free from disagreement? This idea clearly has some support in the halls of higher education.

You know what's even scarier than the "inappropriate hand gesture" (!)? The motion that was passed was to "boycott products, companies, and institutions that 'profit from or are implicated in the violation of Palestinian rights'". I think we can all read between the lines and know that means Israeli products generally. And as the student was concerned that the policy "promotes anti-Semitism, and is harmful to Jewish students", it becomes even more sinister.

So these are student rules at a student run organization. Kids do stuff, especially kids with activist ideas. It isn't always the most thought out and emotions tend to be high. Nothing actually happened to the girl. Drawing attention to it is the most drama laden part of the story.

The policy goes on to highlight that members should refrain from hand gestures which “denote disagreement” or “indicate disagreement with a point or points being made.”

I presume/hope that many of the liberals on here will agree this is preposterous and a bridge too far. But does anyone wish to defend the idea that students should be accorded a safe space free from disagreement? This idea clearly has some support in the halls of higher education.

Let me gary devil's advocate this one -- at times, this is warranted. Like, say it's a designated safe space about, oh, the Holocaust? And someone says "It is well established that the holocaust happened," and Jimmy McAntiSemite raises his hand vigorously to interject.

Fuck Jimmy, he's a douchebag, and he's violating the safe space.

In the instance of the OP? Yeah, that was fucking stupid, getting thrown out for injecting with a fucking fact is stupid as hell.

I figured I would point out that she raised both arms. While it is still too far, it isn't the standard hand raise. It was both arms. No need to try to omit the fact that it was both arms instead of one - it still sounds extreme enough. Those tweaks on stories aren't really needed. I prefer facts.

Quote:

Ms Wilson told the news site: “At that point, I raised my arms in disagreement, as we had contacted the writers of the letter and tried hard to organise a meeting.

But, I guess it makes better headlines than saying raising hands since it generates thoughts of people putting their hand up in middle school.

It does not seem like she was kicked out in either case, but the fact that it required a vote does seem a bit much, especially when discussing issues one is passionate about in a debate format. Yes, one should try to be respectful, but we don't have to be robots either.

In college, I'd expect more passion in such an atmosphere, not less, so maintaining no such expression during talk would be difficult.

She is actually a supporter of safe space though:

Quote:

Safe space is essential for us to have a debate where everyone can speak, but it can’t become a tool for the hard left to use when they disagree with people.

In addition to the hand raising inaccuracy, I don't get how this is far left either? This is mostly just "respect for others" taken way too far into the extreme. Not to mention, a complaint was lodged but she hasn't been "convicted" of anything. Heck, anyone can lodge a complaint, even her ex-boyfriend or her ex-boyfriends new lover. Seems like "far right" over reaction to me. Until the "far left" has a majority condemnation of her actions, I am going to chalk this up as an overreaction, both by the person who lodged the complaint and the people gnashing their teeth about it.

Now the more important aspect of this story is the weird boycott they were debating/voting on. How do they determine who or what are supporting oppression of Palestinians without hurting innocent people? Is this actually anti-semitic? Or just anti-israeli? Or even just anti-zionist?

In addition to the hand raising inaccuracy, I don't get how this is far left either? This is mostly just "respect for others" taken way too far into the extreme. Not to mention, a complaint was lodged but she hasn't been "convicted" of anything. Heck, anyone can lodge a complaint, even her ex-boyfriend or her ex-boyfriends new lover. Seems like "far right" over reaction to me. Until the "far left" has a majority condemnation of her actions, I am going to chalk this up as an overreaction, both by the person who lodged the complaint and the people gnashing their teeth about it.

Seriously though, I'm not sure this has to be a left-right thing does it? It's college kids overreacting to everything like college culture seems to foster. PC has been inherited by the left since it champions minority rights and equality seemingly more than the right, but real leftists aren't about forcing people to shut up. That is the purview of far-everybodies. Not just the left. I've taken it upon myself to call people like this extremists. I am far left in that I believe a socialist government is superior to a capitalist one, but I'm not extremist in that I think people should be forced to think like I should, just respect other people.

OK, maybe sometimes I do want to send you all to vegan re-education camps, but you are all murdering bastards so I feel OK considering it at times.

In addition to the hand raising inaccuracy, I don't get how this is far left either? This is mostly just "respect for others" taken way too far into the extreme. Not to mention, a complaint was lodged but she hasn't been "convicted" of anything. Heck, anyone can lodge a complaint, even her ex-boyfriend or her ex-boyfriends new lover. Seems like "far right" over reaction to me. Until the "far left" has a majority condemnation of her actions, I am going to chalk this up as an overreaction, both by the person who lodged the complaint and the people gnashing their teeth about it.

C'mon, banning certain kinds of books, insisting that video games are the downfall of civilization, wanting intelligent design taught in schools and not evolution, censoring art, rating systems, violence in movies causes kids to become criminals, etc., etc., etc. "Won't someone think of the children?!" There is a long line of this stuff going back years. The religious right was the original source of most of this. We just have a couple of people that constantly post about the left's version of this.

Seriously though, I'm not sure this has to be a left-right thing does it? It's college kids overreacting to everything like college culture seems to foster. PC has been inherited by the left since it champions minority rights and equality seemingly more than the right, but real leftists aren't about forcing people to shut up. That is the purview of far-everybodies. Not just the left. I've taken it upon myself to call people like this extremists. I am far left in that I believe a socialist government is superior to a capitalist one, but I'm not extremist in that I think people should be forced to think like I should, just respect other people.

OK, maybe sometimes I do want to send you all to vegan re-education camps, but you are all murdering bastards so I feel OK considering it at times.

I've been told several times (even from people in RSP) that I'm "shoving my sexuality in people's faces" just by mentioning my husband. Which definitely is another kind of "safe space-making."

The policy goes on to highlight that members should refrain from hand gestures which “denote disagreement” or “indicate disagreement with a point or points being made.”

I presume/hope that many of the liberals on here will agree this is preposterous and a bridge too far. But does anyone wish to defend the idea that students should be accorded a safe space free from disagreement? This idea clearly has some support in the halls of higher education.

Let me gary devil's advocate this one -- at times, this is warranted. Like, say it's a designated safe space about, oh, the Holocaust? And someone says "It is well established that the holocaust happened," and Jimmy McAntiSemite raises his hand vigorously to interject.

Fuck Jimmy, he's a douchebag, and he's violating the safe space.

In the instance of the OP? Yeah, that was fucking stupid, getting thrown out for injecting with a fucking fact is stupid as hell.

Agreed this is dumb. Also agreed that there can still be moments where a smackdown is warranted. Had a fellow student in a class on Piers Plowman speak up every few minutes to protest something the professor was saying, and it started to get into really nasty things surprisingly fast.

In addition to the hand raising inaccuracy, I don't get how this is far left either? This is mostly just "respect for others" taken way too far into the extreme. Not to mention, a complaint was lodged but she hasn't been "convicted" of anything. Heck, anyone can lodge a complaint, even her ex-boyfriend or her ex-boyfriends new lover. Seems like "far right" over reaction to me. Until the "far left" has a majority condemnation of her actions, I am going to chalk this up as an overreaction, both by the person who lodged the complaint and the people gnashing their teeth about it.

C'mon, banning certain kinds of books, insisting that video games are the downfall of civilization, wanting intelligent design taught in schools and not evolution, censoring art, rating systems, violence in movies causes kids to become criminals, etc., etc., etc. "Won't someone think of the children?!" There is a long line of this stuff going back years. The religious right was the original source of most of this. We just have a couple of people that constantly post about the left's version of this.

I was talking specifically about "safe spaces." Yeah, there are lots of people who seek to give themselves comfort in the absence of scary ideas (and in certain circumstances, I might consider myself one of them), but as for the literal "safe spaces," that's been strictly a left thing as far as I've seen.

In addition to the hand raising inaccuracy, I don't get how this is far left either? This is mostly just "respect for others" taken way too far into the extreme. Not to mention, a complaint was lodged but she hasn't been "convicted" of anything. Heck, anyone can lodge a complaint, even her ex-boyfriend or her ex-boyfriends new lover. Seems like "far right" over reaction to me. Until the "far left" has a majority condemnation of her actions, I am going to chalk this up as an overreaction, both by the person who lodged the complaint and the people gnashing their teeth about it.

C'mon, banning certain kinds of books, insisting that video games are the downfall of civilization, wanting intelligent design taught in schools and not evolution, censoring art, rating systems, violence in movies causes kids to become criminals, etc., etc., etc. "Won't someone think of the children?!" There is a long line of this stuff going back years. The religious right was the original source of most of this. We just have a couple of people that constantly post about the left's version of this.

I was talking specifically about "safe spaces." Yeah, there are lots of people who seek to give themselves comfort in the absence of scary ideas (and in certain circumstances, I might consider myself one of them), but as for the literal "safe spaces," that's been strictly a left thing as far as I've seen.

Dave, so am I. Censoring or banning art, books, video games, etc. that the religious right is offended by or which contains ideas that they feel threatened by in one way, shape, or form are de facto attempts to carve out safe spaces. Just because they didn't call them safe spaces explicitly doesn't mean that they aren't just that.