Discussion

Random beer tasting notes....

1) Stone Old Guardian Barley Wine, 2014 release. Tasted by itself, not blind. It's okay; I don't think this is going to take home any prizes in a blind barleywine tasting. What I do notice is that trademark Stone dryness. Does anyone else pick that up in alot of Stone brews? Dryness just has no place in a BW for my palate. But otherwise decent texture. Just nothing to write home about.

2) Deschutes Obsidian Stout. Had fairly high hopes for this. Definitely well made, but again, this is dry on the side of North Coast Old Rasputin; but without that rich luciousness of Rasputin. Glad I bought and tried it, won't be rushing to finish off the other 5 bottles.

3) Bokcor Cuvee de Jacobins Rouge sour ale. Now this is interesting. Kind of a tart-cherry tripel perhaps? And it really earns that "sour" ale label. Will buy again, interesting, unique... more of a "conversation" piece beer than something I'd quaff glass after glass, but I did buy only one bottle then was lamenting not having another after that. Just interesting, not the best brew I ever drank.

Putting up this thread in hopes it might be useful for postings on similar random tastings.

You mentioned "dry" for the barley wine and stout, but those are fairly rich, heavy brews. I am wondering what temperature you had these -- sweetness decreases with temperature, and perhaps you might have had them too cold? Just a thought...

Depends on style. Obsidian is American stout, and Old Guardian is American barleywine. Stylistically both of those can be pretty dry, vs. Russian Imperial stout (Rasputin) which is much sweeter, or English barleywine which is also sweet.

Temp was same as the outdoors... probably around 50 plus or minus? Not refridged at all. The dryness is definitely in those two brews (Obsidian and Guardian). As for stone, I've noticed that same sort of "gravelly" (or "stone") taste in alot of their beers... as though they're targeting that side of the flavor spectrum.

Your point's a good one, I guess I've just tried enough of these that I don't have a problem mixing different styles in the same tasting... I like the whole stout spectrum from dry to sweet to infused to barrel aged, if it's well made it will stand out.

I don't really consider the beer rating sites' classifications to be worth much, since the data is all crowdsourced. The BJCP classifications are much more rigorously researched and compiled. When you compare BJCP's entry for sweet stout against the entry for RIS you can see immediately why they aren't really comparable:

"Overall Impression: An intensely flavored, big, dark ale. Roasty, fruity, and bittersweet, with a noticeable alcohol presence. Dark fruit flavors meld with roasty, burnt, or almost tar-like sensations. Like a black barleywine with every dimension of flavor coming into play."

I don't have a problem enjoying all kinds of beers in one session, either. But I try to compare like with like. I am sensitive to it because I feel like I always run up against beer geeks who give lagers short shrift for not being IPA's.

Some people in Europe and Britain don't care much for BJCP classifications, but since they haven't come up with anything better I'll stick with the admittedly imperfect BJCP categories. I've done some beer judging for a few different competitions and the BJCP classifications are what were used as the guide in judging.

The BJCP classifications are about as useful as the GABF categories. Remember the real reason beer is judged is for MARKETING. The more people that you can award medals to, the more money you can make.

The minutia and careless way the groupings are made are maddening at best, and more likely misleading. BJCP exists to self perpetuate itself and tries to set itself up as the be all and end all. I personally prefer a crowd sourced view because you are going to see a spectrum of opinion rather than the Gospel according to idiots.

BJCP materials are designed chiefly to judge a brewer's fidelity to style criteria, and are oriented strongly toward finding defects.

GABF grew out of that, I suppose, and so may be somewhat similar in that way.

Crowd source is good for a fast impression, but one might look elsewhere for a more unbiased view. In the old days, when there weren't so many beers, and not so many new ones, you could sort of keep up with books like Jackson's pocket guides, but of course he couldn't keep up with the pace. Today it's still hard for the top writers to keep up.

A lot to unpack in your comments. Having known a fair number of BJCP certified judges, some of whom are brewery owners, physicians, attorneys, university professors, and engineers, I find it pretty absurd to label it a "Gospel according to idiots".

Competition seems to be a natural impulse among humans. It seems strange to claim it's solely about marketing. The World Beer Cup and GABF existed long before the recent popularity of craft beer. I would also add that brewers I know who enter their beer in competition take those competitions pretty seriously and put forth their efforts to make their best beers.

Lastly, I find it *really* strange that you'd look at something like the BJCP entries for sweet stout and RIS and describe them as careless when they specifically isolate range of ABV, IBU, etc. vs. the RateBeer list which has people comparing 5% milk stouts with relatively simple grain bills to 10+% RIS with more complex recipes.

I agree with a lot of your comments, but I would be surprised if the GABF competition hadn't started at least partly to market craft beer. It provides a huge showcase for journalists to cover each year, and there is not a doubt in my mind that breweries hope to medal so they can use it for marketing.

I think the BJCP guidelines, while meant as standards by which to judge a brewer's skill at brewing to specific criteria caused some in the hobby to look at the guidelines as definitions of certain beer styles. E.g., I recall years ago a homebrewer questioning the inclusion of ginger in a witbier because it wasn't in the guidelines. To my mind, part of Belgian brewing is to not be too concerned about the guidelines.

Having said all that, most of the faults I just mentioned would be those of the individual, not the guidelines.

That's an unfair dig at Jack's Abbey. While some of their beers are heavily hopped, they aren't a one trick pony - for example. the Smoke and Dagger is a delicious twist on schwarzbier that doesn't remotely resemble an IPA.

Interesting barleywine I'm just sampling for the first time.... can't hardly pronounce it:

Solstice d'hiver by Brasserie Dieu du Ciel. Brewed in Quebec. I think the vendor said it's at least a year old if not 2?... definitely not the most recent release.

I like this, not crazy about it. What's distinctive is that it's somewhere between an over-the-top sweet barleywine and a semi-dry. Very rich texture. Flavor is a mildly bright floral caramel, not very complex or evolving.

I don't know... the more I sip it the more "average to above average" it is. Not tasting it blind but if I were I think it would probably be a comparison that would make a truly awesome BW look that much better.

Interesting if for nothing else than the 10.2% ABV. Packs a serious punch.

I don't fully understand aging. I don't think it relates necessarily to the presence of yeast, but I have this strong (likely erroneous) feeling that yeast is the key. Perhaps someone can better explain this phenomenon.

Aging is largely a function of oxidation. Might be able to argue that bottle conditioned beers take up oxygen during refermentation, thus the effect of aging is more gentle/elegant on bottle conditioned beer. My understanding is that dark malts contain anti-oxidants that also slow the rate of oxidation. Since every beer contains different ingredients, brewed using different equipment, and is bottled on different bottling lines, its really beer/brewery specific.

I haven't done the Rogues in a while (just too many other choices in beer), but my recollection is that their beers lean towards the bitter end of the spectrum, with the Shakespeare being the most extreme example of that. If you like sweeter stouts, Rogues generally aren't a good option.