Comments on: Red Wings unveil plans for new arena, look to open in 2017http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/
ProHockeyTalk on NBCSports.comMon, 03 Aug 2015 01:15:02 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.com/By: jaybaileyshttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-356163
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 20:49:14 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-356163and there goes the dynamite!
]]>By: lionstigersandwingsohmyhttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-356121
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:31:14 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-356121One thing that never gets mentioned in this debate is the fate of JLA. After the new stadium is built, the city of Detroit will be able to tear down JLA and build whatever they want. The JLA site will be a prime riverfront location. The taxes the city gets from the re-development of the JLA site will be far greater than the 22 blocks where the new stadium is going is producing now. I argue that the end result will be an increase in tax revenue to the city.
]]>By: pwshruggedhttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-356024
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:21:59 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-356024The whole stadium-building thing has become a pretty major scandal in America, in my opinion – I don’t understand why public financing ends up bankrolling the majority, when the public rarely sees a return. Most public returns are indirect from having a potentially thriving entertainment district – the stadium itself creates jobs, and there’s a jobs benefit to bars, restaurants, hotels, etc. Property values can see a minor surge, as well, although that’s not super likely. Having pro sports teams and major entertainment venues is a staple of major American cities now, after all. I agree completely, though, that the system is basically broken and takes advantage of public funding. This is something I hope to see correct itself over the next couple decades.

One thing to consider is the complete lose-lose situation this is for Detroit as a city. If they use the bankruptcy to refuse a needed stadium upgrade (personally, I’d favor a renovation of the Joe, but it is an old building and is attracting less and less non-hockey entertainment), then it looks bad – they’re not being favorable to the best team in the city, and the image of poor, dilapidated Detroit persists. If they allow the stadium to be built, they suffer the national ire in terms of “how can you build a stadium when you’re bankrupt,” but the new stadium offers more opportunity than not building it – a potentially refreshed entertainment district, potential jobs, potential long-term improvement.

As for the city itself, property valuations are a pretty nuanced thing right now. If no one’s buying, there’s no reason not to sell it off cheap if someone’s going to use it. There were stories as far out as five years ago about people buying houses in Detroit for $10,000 or less. The city needs to attract people – be they residential or commercial – to get out of the hole it’s in. If that means some land goes to sale cheap, so be it. The only thing I offer there is that the city needs to be picky about who they make cheap sales to.

On that note, I maintain my faith in the Ilitch family. I’m not going to pretend that they’re moral bastions of hope and praise; they’re investors, and as investors, their primary interest is – and should be – making a profit. I hope they do, although that’s most likely a given with how pro sports ownership works now. That said, I’d rather give buckets of public money to an upstanding local ambassador like Mike Ilitch in Detroit. Say what you want about the nature of public funding in sports, Mike Ilitch has been one of the best owners across pro sports. Better to give him money than Zygi Wilf, who recently got public funding for a new Vikings stadium despite basically being convicted of racketeering to skim money from business partners (as an example). I doubt Zygi Wilf cares a whit for Minneapolis; at least we know, from past experience, that Mike Ilitch bleeds Detroit blood. My greatest concern with the Ilitch family is that I hope he’s instilled that same loyalty and respect into his children, who will take over his empire someday.

]]>By: tmoore4075http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355993
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 13:02:20 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355993This looks great, I hope it works out the way they are planning. Wings need a new arena and they weren’t going to renovcate Joe Louis. Can’t add in more private boxes in the lower levels, which is one of it’s biggest downfalls. Also can’t add in a second concourse and two more exits, which is also what it needs. As someone mentioned above the area where this is being built is very nice but it needs to spread out from there. There aren’t enough places in Detroit like this. Hopefully it can continue to spread.
]]>By: tmoore4075http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355991
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 12:57:05 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355991Best arena in the country? It’s a very nice arena but it’s 25 years old so I’m guessing there are plenty of arenas nicer. I have been to the ACC and Nationwide and thought those were better because they have two concourses so you can spread out the people to not have them all going to the same place for food and drinks.

So there was been exodus from Detroit over the last 50-60 years so you want the Wings to do the same? That’ll be good for the city.

]]>By: bensawesomenesshttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355973
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:56:13 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355973I think the roof may be my favorite part. I don’t know if it’ll stay, like if it’s just there for the rendering or not, but if it does, that’d be amazing to see
]]>By: dan28354http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355972
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:53:48 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355972The public will pay nearly 60 percent of the cost of the proposed $450 million Detroit Red Wings arena in downtown Detroit.

Property taxes would pay for $261.5 million (58 percent) of the building’s construction cost while the team’s ownership would provide $188.4 million (42 percent), according to details provided by the state.

Is this really a good deal for the citizenry to pay for millionaire to play

]]>By: chelbelle64http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355958
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 04:05:52 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355958This will help the city. This is also private money not public.
]]>By: kaptaanamericahttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355956
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 04:02:21 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355956I’d be interested to know if the valuation of the property being sold for 1$ will change after some time to allow property taxation to reap some benefit to the city, or is the “20% of revenues” meant to cover any property tax that would have resulted from an increase in property value from the development.

Also, will the city be able to negotiate an equity stake in the franchise to take advantage of the increase in franchise value like Hosewater suggests?

]]>By: j0hnnyscenehttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355952
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 03:33:53 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355952The river walk’s already been revamped. It’s gorgeous.
]]>By: mustbechrishttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355943
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 02:35:41 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355943Those are some mighty strong internet muscles you got, eh? Calling someone you don’t know an idiot? Your parents must be proud.
]]>By: mustbechrishttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355942
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 02:33:33 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355942Yes, they did.
]]>By: timmons94http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355937
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:51:54 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355937Palace of auburn hills best arena in country . Paid with not one cent public cash. But no , the red wings have ti be in downtown Detroit…
]]>By: jaybaileyshttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355935
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:41:23 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355935Didn’t the Flyers build their new building with their own money?
]]>By: 101starmymedichttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355934
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:29:47 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355934They should rename Detroit, MI to Illitch, MI because that family has done so much through charity, city donations, jobs, and citywide revenue.
]]>By: 101starmymedichttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355933
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:27:19 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355933ABSOLUTELY WHAT BURGUNDY SAID.
And a whales vagina…
]]>By: hieronymous27http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355921
Mon, 21 Jul 2014 00:05:31 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355921In 1950 the population within the City of Detroit was 1.86 million people. It was the fourth largest city in the country. Today the population within Detroit proper is roughly 700,000 people. For the past 60 years Detroit has been in steady decline. Now you have someone who has invested in the city and people are complaining how rich he is going to get. Where were all the people with deep pockets, former Detroiters, when things were going down the toilet? They all cut ties with Motown and moved to the burbs. The fact of the matter is the city needs private investors in the worst way. If people like Illitch and Dan Gilbert are willing to invest in the city I say God love them. At least they’re willing to put their money where their mouth at a time when no one else has the testicular fortitude to step up.
]]>By: mfinneranhttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355918
Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:55:11 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355918Go to the former mayor and his cronie’s. I’ll bet they could
come up with a few buck’s.
]]>By: hosewater2http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355914
Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:46:46 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355914So if the Ilitch family is trying to do the right thing here, let the City of Detroit get direct financial benefit from the increased valuation of the Red Wings franchise which would inevitably result. The controversy stems from the fact that these kinds of public investments are vastly overrated in terms of economic benefit to the community, as you note, and Deadspin noted today in their piece. The true benefactors are the franchise owners who see huge increases in their franchise values, IMO if there is public investment then the public needs to have direct benefit as well, not just some imaginary halo effect.

On a side note, I wonder how Seattle Supersonics fans feel about this situation?

“So what if they’re trying to be a bit secretive to ensure their sole investment of over 270 million dollars is kept safe. When you can put up that kind of money then you can talk.”

I have to just stop trying, because you can’t have a reasonable debate with someone this illogical. I mean, seriously read that quote out loud to yourself.

The worst part is that the Ilitch’s already fleeced Detroit for a baseball stadium.

]]>By: Ron Burgundyhttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355900
Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:41:02 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355900Alliceishome – A common symptom of not paying a utility bill is having said utility shut off. Which is what is happening en masse in Detroit right now after EXTREMELY long grace periods given to the people whose water is being shut off.

The part I find hilarious is that people are protesting now. Cool man. I’m not going to pay my electric bill for a year or so, and when they come to shut it off, I’m going to organize a protest. Because clearly its the electric company’s fault that I couldn’t pay my bill.

All that being said, I hope this goes through. Could be a real boon to the city and it’s people. Good on the Ilitch family for not giving up on Detroit.

]]>By: goat10000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355899
Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:37:33 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355899AT&T Park, San Francisco. You could look it up.
]]>By: Ron Burgundyhttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355897
Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:30:48 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355897I wish I could upvote that more than once.
]]>By: polegojimhttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355895
Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:10:33 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355895Awesome and will bring billions to the Detroit economy for years to come.

Red Wings revs to city of course, but also all the related revenue for construction/employment, Real Estate purchases, retail, vending, real estate rentals, as well as small and large businesses alike.

KUDOS to Ilitch Family and Red Wings FO!!

]]>By: pwshruggedhttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355893
Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:04:29 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355893Like most things, there are pros and cons to this situation.

On the pro side, the Red Wings do need some change to their playing venue, although I would have favored a renovation of the Joe, but I’m an old-school stadium enthusiast who mourns Tiger Stadium anytime he goes to Comerica Park. The plan proposed is grand and could have a very positive effect on Detroit as a whole. What the Ilitch family imagines is quite bold and daring. If you don’t know the city very well, the area they’re using is an integral part of downtown that is currently unused. It’s a stellar opportunity that, if done right, will be a huge boon to the area and the city. It should be noted that the proposed arena is not being pitched as a hockey-only venue; it’s meant to be a multi-purpose venue for year-round use.

On the con side, as with any stadium deal nowadays, there’s hand-wringing about the taxpayer money. I don’t have answers there, although I don’t feel this is any more egregious than any other stadium deal. Mike Ilitch is no Jeffrey Loria, for example. You can argue that the bankruptcy changes the picture, but how is the city to regrow without investment? As studies have pointed out, having a huge state-of-the-art stadium does little for individual denizens of a city, and that generally speaking, the only people getting rich off of it are the investors… but having a vibrant stadium district can create jobs and drive tourism. Where’s the money coming from? I don’t know. Some of it is fancy legal bond/tax structure stuff that basically just spreads the cost out over a term of years. Some of it may be coming at the expense of public works. I don’t know, but it’s easy enough to see taxpayer money as a pool – when you siphon some off to go one place, it doesn’t go to another. That’s unfortunate.

Truth be told, though, if any individual or organization asked for a sum of millions of taxpayer dollars and spoke with intent of making Detroit better, the Ilitch family is one group I’d trust with that. They’ve failed before, with Comerica Park never quite being the “Wrigleyville” they envisioned, but I’d give them another shot. The Ilitch family has stuck by Detroit from beginning to now; while yes, they are investors who will be poised to profit from this (as investors should when they do well), they’ve always tried to do right by the city. They could have left for greener pastures when things went bad, but they didn’t; they’ve doubled-down on Detroit, and for that, I give them the benefit of the doubt.

Oh, and to everyone correlating this to some Detroit citizens having their water turned off, they’re completely separate issues. The reason people are having their water turned off is because they don’t pay their bill. Public works, such as water, are a service that require payment. What’s most stunning about that situation is that it didn’t happen sooner; a major part of the water works financial woes stem from servicing delinquent accounts.

I think I played that movie so many times when I was young that my VCR could play the entire movie without the tape inside it haha.

]]>By: cheliostwinhttp://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355875
Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:28:42 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355875Building the new arena won’t take any money at all from the city’s budget. Most of the money will come from private investors, and a large chunk will be paid with money raised from bonds. The bonds will be paid back with what is known as incremental taxes. The city currently collects property taxes on that area; with the new development the property values will increase, so the property taxes will go up dramatically. The city will continue to collect the current amount of taxes, the additional tax income will be used to pay back the bonds over the next 20 years. So no money will come out of the city’s pockets for this development. In fact, the city should get slightly more income, as the rest of downtown will get more traffic, restaurants and bars will get more business, and their tax payments to the city will increase.
]]>By: corky2141http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/20/red-wings-unveil-plans-for-new-arena-look-to-open-in-2017/comment-page-1/#comment-355869
Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:01:45 +0000http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=2337011#comment-355869Went out to Detroit last summer for a baseball game and loved the set up they had for comerica & ford field and the immediate surrounding area. But it seemed to be a small area and talking to people from there they said they would love for the red wings to help build it up more with a new stadium. Also, chelios’ bar sits right next to the main gate entering the baseball stadium and hockeytown pub was next to fox theatre and comerica’s parking lots
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