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There is a strong urge and inferiority complex among a lot of Indians ( minus Sikhs) to seek validation from the Westerners. Aping a Westerners style of eating, talking, dressing and their cultural values is considered a sign of development and progress.

Indians are considered as the most docile and subservient immigrants in the West, the ones who will offer their cheek for a slap but never hit back.

That's why Indians are well-respected and succesful NRIs. They mind their own business and will adjust well to local culture and laws. And west has its own bias, and so if you want to reach some elite level, there will be a point that you will have to change your identity, names. That's the reality.

I will feel okay if you did that! I have no probs when certain people accuse Pakistanis as being Arab wannabe's coz they are often right! It is true that millions of Pakistanis have sod out their own culture to be more Arab like that angers me. The criticism of these kind of people is absolutely correct as is those Indians desperate to be Americans. I am not seeing Pakistanis through Punjabi but Pak glasses being able to differentiate between various Pak cultures and Arabism. As far as I know the burkha and those robes Arab men wear that ours have adopted has gradually been increasing in Pakistan over the years in massive numbers. What I am seeing in India is everyone wants to be an American so desperate to call their culture as Indian one. If I Punjab acts like a Baloch I have no problem as both as Pakistani but I have an issue when they do so like non Pakistanis. Whats all this "Mom", "Dude", "Babe" and "Buddy" obsession in your country when you certainly were not using these terms in the 70's or 80's? Just be yourself okay otherwise tolerate the world laughs at you and rightly so! Tamil or whoever else need not learn anything however when any group accept outside values and culture as their own then they are rightfully mocked. You just need to deal with it.

"I will feel okay if you did that!" - Couple of flaws with this statement
1. Just because you or I as individuals are ok with that does not mean you or I can use that as a logical inference to prove a point.
2. Perhaps a higher percentage of Pakistanis will be ok with this since Pakistan is relatively more homogenous than India when it comes to ethnic/language/culture differences? I noticed another poster make an excellent point in this thread - Hindi/Urdu/Sanskrit in India is not the same parameter as Urdu in Pakistan when it comes to national identity. Not many Pakistanis seem to realize this.

Overall I see where you are coming from in terms of Arab wannabe nature of Pakistanis and westernization of Indians. But think about it, change is the only constant and it applies to everything. Culture is an ever changing item. Ask yourself this - Is Pakistan's culture the same today as it was in the 1800s? Even if you take out the Arab wannabe parameter out of Pakistani culture - I'm sure a lot of things have changed.

"What I am seeing in India is everyone wants to be an American so desperate to call their culture as Indian one. If I Punjab acts like a Baloch I have no problem as both as Pakistani but I have an issue when they do so like non Pakistanis. Whats all this "Mom", "Dude", "Babe" and "Buddy" obsession in your country when you certainly were not using these terms in the 70's or 80's?" - Couple of points about this ...

1. Culture is culture and should not be boxed in with a national identity (which can argued to be artificial in a long term perspective). Eg: Ignoring ethnic/cultural differences and boxing people with national identities in the middle east by colonial powers has led to numerous conflicts there. So, if you are raising a voice for everyone to only hold their own CULTURAL identity then stay consistent. It's ok for me to destroy my 2000+ year old culture as long as I am "polluting" it with another culture within a national boundary (that is only 70+ years old) but it is not ok to "pollute" my culture with something outside of this national boundary is a very weak argument. Culture is culture and nation is nation.

2. Historically it has always been the norm for a dominant culture to be aped/replicated and this is also how cultures evolve (for good or bad). ALL nations/cultures are susceptible to this. So if you have enough social freedom Pakistan will also mimic western culture. But because the legal+social construct is different in Pakistan, perhaps there end up being more restrictions for outright copy of western culture and the next best thing permissible that can be aped by Pakistan's legal+social construct is the Arab culture - hence you see what you see IMO.

If culture never changes and always stays a constant - perhaps every Indian wife will be burned and every Pakistani alive will have an honor killing badge, and every Indian+Pakistani will be a proud Paedophile. Change can be good for us if you look at it with a larger constant (as much as the surface level wannabe can be aggravating).

When i see people from my home town Hyderabad (India) dressed as Arabs boarding Dubai flights, i feel sorry for them.

No matter how much you try to ape Arabs, they treat all the sub-continent people the same irrespective of religion.

Very interesting to read this. I never got a chance to visit Hyderabad during my time in India. Would these be people who have lived in Dubai for a while and hence under that influence a bit? Interesting to hear about this nevertheless.

The controversial Nobel Prize winning scientist James Watson currently in the news for losing some of his honorary titles over making race related claims on intelligence has also stated Indians are "servile" based on genetics.

Living conditions is the west are much better then the subcontinent but this does not mean we have to mimic everything they do. Living conditions do not mean selling out your own cultural values unless they are outlawed in the west. Integration does not mean we should star consuming pork or liquor just to please the majority community. I have a problem with people who sell their soul to please the majority and always will. Next we'll also be having single and unmarried mothers in millions as well!

PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

The controversial Nobel Prize winning scientist James Watson currently in the news for losing some of his honorary titles over making race related claims on intelligence has also stated Indians are "servile" based on genetics.

What this guy and Creek invented is arguably one of the greatest inventions of modern age. His demise was quite tragic and the way he tried to be another Hitler. What a farce!

This is true if u look at Indian shows, movies or wtv they try to act western and always speak English too with heavy accent it's hilarious lol also this is not hate it's from experience being born and raised in Montreal I find 90 percent of Pakistans who grew up here are close with their culture or have an understanding where as the Indians it's not the case from what I have seen , they don't know much about their culture , they try to make it sound like their country is like Europe when they take about it which is far from true and they seem like their embrassed when you talk about true India. Culture or even their religions Hinduism or Sikhism. Again this is based on what I have experienced growing up here in Montreal

This is true if u look at Indian shows, movies or wtv they try to act western and always speak English too with heavy accent it's hilarious lol also this is not hate it's from experience being born and raised in Montreal I find 90 percent of Pakistans who grew up here are close with their culture or have an understanding where as the Indians it's not the case from what I have seen , they don't know much about their culture , they try to make it sound like their country is like Europe when they take about it which is far from true and they seem like their embrassed when you talk about true India. Culture or even their religions Hinduism or Sikhism. Again this is based on what I have experienced growing up here in Montreal

There is something called assimilation. You have to be loyal to and follow the culture of the country you are born in. Why would a Canadian wants to be associated with India just because his parents are from there?

So you want to be a Pakistani forever while being born and living in Canada?

Most Indians born in USA can speak their native language and very well know the traditions of India. They just put Canada or USA above India as they are born there.

There is something called assimilation. You have to be loyal to and follow the culture of the country you are born in. Why would a Canadian wants to be associated with India just because his parents are from there?

So you want to be a Pakistani forever while being born and living in Canada?

Most Indians born in USA can speak their native language and very well know the traditions of India. They just put Canada or USA above India as they are born there.

1 think is if your second generation like most of us you tend to be closer with your culture it's normal this goes for all the immigrants regardless if their Arab , Greek , Italian , or wtv. Obviously your not going to be Pakistani or Indian forever if your born and raised in a western country, what I said was most Pakistanis here in Montreal are still close with their culture ( Meaning they didn't forget their roots) while still being a proud Canadian , whereas the Indians ( again from my experience) have no or very little clue of their roots, one should have some sort of knowledge of their roots you wouldn't agree

Many 2nd gen Indians overseas are like Katrina Kaif from Namaste London (a good movie btw) in that they want nothing to do with their native country which is kinda sad

Isn't she the one who was born in Britain and is half English anyway? Her native country is England, I think the only reason she went for Bollywood is that she was nobody over here, whereas in India she seems to have made a career by looking a bit like a Pakistani.

There is something called assimilation. You have to be loyal to and follow the culture of the country you are born in. Why would a Canadian wants to be associated with India just because his parents are from there?

So you want to be a Pakistani forever while being born and living in Canada?

Most Indians born in USA can speak their native language and very well know the traditions of India. They just put Canada or USA above India as they are born there.

How comes Jews have somehow resisted assimilation in Europe, despite living on the continent for many centuries ? Because they have a pride in their race as well as religion, and despite living a dozen of generations in the West still support the interests of their peoples, and since some time Israel, above the national interests of the countries they reside in.

In fact, forget full fledged Jews, even mischling (someone with one Jewish parent or even grandparent) feel connected to Jews/Israel despite having a meager relation with it.

How comes Jews have somehow resisted assimilation in Europe, despite living on the continent for many centuries ? Because they have a pride in their race as well as religion, and despite living a dozen of generations in the West still support the interests of their peoples, and since some time Israel, above the national interests of the countries they reside in.

In fact, forget full fledged Jews, even mischling (someone with one Jewish parent or even grandparent) feel connected to Jews/Israel despite having a meager relation with it.

Strong races and cultures don't "assimilate" easily.

I see Jews at my work place celebrating Christmas and freely marrying Christians. Cannot say the same about Muslims without conversion.

What is a strong race? Everyone is equal. In the Global world, you better be ready to mix. We shamelessly use everything western, but get horrified the moment someone talks about following their culture of free speech and free life.

I see Jews at my work place celebrating Christmas and freely marrying Christians. Cannot say the same about Muslims without conversion.

What is a strong race? Everyone is equal. In the Global world, you better be ready to mix. We shamelessly use everything western, but get horrified the moment someone talks about following their culture of free speech and free life.

Muslims don't shamelessly use everything western, they use the good stuff and discard the unnecessary. This is actually a very healthy attitude, no one should accept everything without question. But if you are saying we as in we Indians, well, we cannot vouch for you guys. I am sure you have your reasons.

Muslims don't shamelessly use everything western, they use the good stuff and discard the unnecessary. This is actually a very healthy attitude, no one should accept everything without question. But if you are saying we as in we Indians, well, we cannot vouch for you guys. I am sure you have your reasons.

The very reason you may be alive today is due to Western people. Its their knowledge and tech that is running the world. We also wear western clothing and use their technology right from the time we wake up from bed.

Choosing what suits you is called hypocrisy. Free speech, freedom to choose what to follow and equal rights may be alien to some of you folk. Not for us.

The very reason you may be alive today is due to Western people. Its their knowledge and tech that is running the world. We also wear western clothing and use their technology right from the time we wake up from bed.

Choosing what suits you is called hypocrisy. Free speech, freedom to choose what to follow and equal rights may be alien to some of you folk. Not for us.

By that logic, the very reason many westerners may be alive is due to Eastern people, scientific thought and the legal system in the west took much inspiration from eastern philosophy. There is nothing wrong with western clothing or technology, we should be able to accept progress wherever it comes from and choose the good and discard what isn't useful. Where is the hypocrisy here? I would expect westerners to do the same thing.

By that logic, the very reason many westerners may be alive is due to Eastern people, scientific thought and the legal system in the west took much inspiration from eastern philosophy. There is nothing wrong with western clothing or technology, we should be able to accept progress wherever it comes from and choose the good and discard what isn't useful. Where is the hypocrisy here? I would expect westerners to do the same thing.

Eastern Philosophy was only the basic. Its the Westerners who took it to its pinnacle.

What has come out of East in the past 500 yrs? Forget about all the modern tech, Who came up with all the vaccinations? Without them half of them will be dead or crippled.

You claim that everyone says it and you have never heard of it but like I said someone told me. And this topic is about special cases no?

No thread is a generalization..and he calims everyone says first name followed by suffix, which is true ,I have never heard anyone call even their friends parents by name..or even Me.something ,it's always uncle/aunt..

No thread is a generalization..and he calims everyone says first name followed by suffix, which is true ,I have never heard anyone call even their friends parents by name..or even Me.something ,it's always uncle/aunt..

He made a generaization that everyone says. I said only a few. Maybe you guys haven't heard of it but I know someone who has experienced this.

Since last 2-3 years I have been on and off on PP and I see same useless threads by same posters on either side talking about same things.. Can't believe they don't get bored need to get a life really.

Eastern Philosophy was only the basic. Its the Westerners who took it to its pinnacle.

What has come out of East in the past 500 yrs? Forget about all the modern tech, Who came up with all the vaccinations? Without them half of them will be dead or crippled.

What has come out of the east in the past 500 years? Plenty of immigrants, that's for sure. Personally I think we should ban immigrants entirely coming from India, it's an emerging country with one of the fastest rising economies. There is absolutely no need for them to come to Britain, as you yourself say, Indians don't have anything to offer, they should best stay where they are and take responsibility for improving India itself.

Eastern Philosophy was only the basic. Its the Westerners who took it to its pinnacle.

What has come out of East in the past 500 yrs? Forget about all the modern tech, Who came up with all the vaccinations? Without them half of them will be dead or crippled.

Yes, contribution of East to modern World are exaggerated, modern world is a white man's creation. Japanese and Chinese contribution are also immense in last 7 to 8 decades but they are mostly in manufacturing and spreading of technology, innovation is still in West.
This is also my opinion on the topic most developing world countries be they arabs , Indians or iranians want to be like Westerners simply because they are most successful people on planet.

Yes, contribution of East to modern World are exaggerated, modern world is a white man's creation. Japanese and Chinese contribution are also immense in last 7 to 8 decades but they are mostly in manufacturing and spreading of technology, innovation is still in West.
This is also my opinion on the topic most developing world countries be they arabs , Indians or iranians want to be like Westerners simply because they are most successful people on planet.

Nothing wrong with it either, I have argued for some time that English should be the second language taught in Pakistan, should be compulsory. Although the way things are going, it's more likely to be Mandarin.

This questions probably has more to do with wealth and status rather than any kind of morals or values
Personally speaking there is a lot more Pakistani based Kashmiris in the Uk that I know of rather than ones from Srinagar

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"

Nothing wrong with it either, I have argued for some time that English should be the second language taught in Pakistan, should be compulsory. Although the way things are going, it's more likely to be Mandarin.

Yes I agree, I want Pakistanis to be like Lebanese , I like their admiration for western culture and values.

Reading OP's posts over the years, It's a bygone conclusion that basically everything Indian is BAD.
So one more thread to put down Indians, but it's getting tiresome now

Originally Posted by big_gamer007

Since last 2-3 years I have been on and off on PP and I see same useless threads by same posters on either side talking about same things.. Can't believe they don't get bored need to get a life really.

Nobody is forcing you to read any thread. Some Indians cannot take critcisim, we all know this.

But many other posters have pointed out this topic is very true.

indian workplaces these days have an ethnic wear day when the indian employees dress up and pretend as indians. so big LOL at those who say that indians don't have pride in their culture.

This is such a silly thread. I work in an MNC where we have people from all over the world. Indians are the only ones celebrating their holidays and festivals in the office and they always come dressed up. I remember last year on Independence day, it was my Indian colleagues who organized a small party to celebrate the independence day of both countries. All the Indian colleagues came dressed up whereas, not even a single Pakistani did. The Indians stood up and sang their national anthem with pride whereas all the Pakistani's ran off when it was their time, the few who stayed back needed to google the lyrics and read them in roman to be able to sing it.

This is such a silly thread. I work in an MNC where we have people from all over the world. Indians are the only ones celebrating their holidays and festivals in the office and they always come dressed up. I remember last year on Independence day, it was my Indian colleagues who organized a small party to celebrate the independence day of both countries. All the Indian colleagues came dressed up whereas, not even a single Pakistani did. The Indians stood up and sang their national anthem with pride whereas all the Pakistani's ran off when it was their time, the few who stayed back needed to google the lyrics and read them in roman to be able to sing it.

this is such a fake story. no indian is going to offer celebrating pakistani yaum-e-azadi. there are only two types of indians: those who hate pakistan and are open about it and those who hate pakistan but try to hide it.

this is such a fake story. no indian is going to offer celebrating pakistani yaum-e-azadi. there are only two types of indians: those who hate pakistan and are open about it and those who hate pakistan but try to hide it.

Have you ever stepped foot outside of Dhaka? The hell is wrong with you dude?

This is such a silly thread. I work in an MNC where we have people from all over the world. Indians are the only ones celebrating their holidays and festivals in the office and they always come dressed up. I remember last year on Independence day, it was my Indian colleagues who organized a small party to celebrate the independence day of both countries. All the Indian colleagues came dressed up whereas, not even a single Pakistani did. The Indians stood up and sang their national anthem with pride whereas all the Pakistani's ran off when it was their time, the few who stayed back needed to google the lyrics and read them in roman to be able to sing it.

Mashallah, looks like Pakistanis are integrating nicely whereas Indians are still clinging to their awful culture which your own compatriot admitted hadn't contributed anything useful to the world in 500 years. No wonder the Pakistanis hightailed it out of there double quick, probably afraid of being mistaken for an Indian.