Bronn getting named commander of the gold cloaks? He's absolutely nobody, lowborn scum who just arrived into the city - that's basically worse than Davos, and look how he's treated - and Tyrion names him commander of the city watch? As it was in the book, dismissing Janos Slynt and placing Ser Jacelyn Bywater in his place didn't win Tyrion many friends - and Bywater was a knight, and a longtime veteran of the watch - placing Bronn there should give him a full-blown mutiny of the remaining officers.

.

Very minor book spoiler, more of a foreshadowing, but nonetheless...

Spoiler: show

My son said the same last night. I called it "ease of casting, simplicity of storylines for the non-book-reading audience, and hand-in-hand with storyline simplicity, a foundation for what's to happen later on with Bronn." I didn't hate it.

Bronn getting named commander of the gold cloaks? He's absolutely nobody, lowborn scum who just arrived into the city - that's basically worse than Davos, and look how he's treated - and Tyrion names him commander of the city watch? As it was in the book, dismissing Janos Slynt and placing Ser Jacelyn Bywater in his place didn't win Tyrion many friends - and Bywater was a knight, and a longtime veteran of the watch - placing Bronn there should give him a full-blown mutiny of the remaining officers.

.

Spoiler: show

Yeah, that's bunch of stuff is full of crap and is a BAD sign, IMO. It's completely inconsistent with the world and the books. The officers of the watch would not stand for being commanded by a sell-sword at all and Tyrion would have known this and known it to be a really, really stupid thing to do.

Banzai51 wrote:

I was really disappointed in Asha (whatever they are calling her in the TV show). She wasn't nearly as wicked in that sequence as in the book. She just looked mildly annoyed and didn't play back at Theon at all. I'm also not sure where they are going with Craster/Snow, but I don't like it. It looks unnecessary and just baffons up Jon more.

Spoiler: show

I had envisioned Asha to be pretty hot. Yara (Asha) was not that hot, to me... and, yeah, that scene was MUCH better in the book.

Spoiler: show

I guess this week's episode can be pointed to as the episode where it starts to screw up the story. This is probably the first episode that I was disappointed in the changes they've made. Other times, I was OK or ambivalent but they've kinda screwed up now, IMO (as far as the books go).

Iron Clad Burrito wrote:

Very minor book spoiler, more of a foreshadowing, but nonetheless...

Spoiler: show

My son said the same last night. I called it "ease of casting, simplicity of storylines for the non-book-reading audience, and hand-in-hand with storyline simplicity, a foundation for what's to happen later on with Bronn." I didn't hate it.

Spoiler: show

Bronn's story has a decent foundation of its own... it's a progression that at *least* makes a little sense... this change makes Tyrion look stupid and would derail so many things in the story down the line... this would raise a huge tangent/change with the Gold Cloaks mutinying and all the implications of that.

The officers of the watch would not stand for being commanded by a sell-sword at all and Tyrion would have known this and known it to be a really, really stupid thing to do.

Wait, what? Slynt was corrupt as can be and the son of a butcher. He killed the people who were going to testify against him to Jon Arryn, betrayed Stark to become the Lord of Harrenhal, and killed babies. Bronn seems like an excellent boss given that, and of no worse pedigree.

The officers of the watch would not stand for being commanded by a sell-sword at all and Tyrion would have known this and known it to be a really, really stupid thing to do.

Wait, what? Slynt was corrupt as can be and the son of a butcher. He killed the people who were going to testify against him to Jon Arryn, betrayed Stark to become the Lord of Harrenhal, and killed babies. Bronn seems like an excellent boss given that, and of no worse pedigree.

Spoiler: show

The problem is in that world titles reign supreme, and going against the old laws usually gets you killed. So while Janos was a big douche, he was still a high ranking douche. Bronn has no rank nor title, and given that he's a sell-sword and was never even sworn into the Kingsguard, the rest of the Kingsguard would take that as a huge slight against their honor that he was suddenly given command.

The officers of the watch would not stand for being commanded by a sell-sword at all and Tyrion would have known this and known it to be a really, really stupid thing to do.

Wait, what? Slynt was corrupt as can be and the son of a butcher. He killed the people who were going to testify against him to Jon Arryn, betrayed Stark to become the Lord of Harrenhal, and killed babies. Bronn seems like an excellent boss given that, and of no worse pedigree.

Spoiler: show

The problem is in that world titles reign supreme, and going against the old laws usually gets you killed. So while Janos was a big douche, he was still a high ranking douche. Bronn has no rank nor title, and given that he's a sell-sword and was never even sworn into the Kingsguard, the rest of the Kingsguard would take that as a huge slight against their honor that he was suddenly given command.

Book spoiler:

Spoiler: show

He was only the son of a butcher. I am certain that this was thrown in his face several times in the books. His 'lordship' was directly granted by Joffrey. I get the feeling that the Gold Cloaks are pretty much glorified security guards, and are all looked down upon - allowing anyone into their ranks.

The officers of the watch would not stand for being commanded by a sell-sword at all and Tyrion would have known this and known it to be a really, really stupid thing to do.

Wait, what? Slynt was corrupt as can be and the son of a butcher. He killed the people who were going to testify against him to Jon Arryn, betrayed Stark to become the Lord of Harrenhal, and killed babies. Bronn seems like an excellent boss given that, and of no worse pedigree.

Spoiler: show

The problem is in that world titles reign supreme, and going against the old laws usually gets you killed. So while Janos was a big douche, he was still a high ranking douche. Bronn has no rank nor title, and given that he's a sell-sword and was never even sworn into the Kingsguard, the rest of the Kingsguard would take that as a huge slight against their honor that he was suddenly given command.

Book spoiler:

Spoiler: show

He was only the son of a butcher. I am certain that this was thrown in his face several times in the books. His 'lordship' was directly granted by Joffrey. I get the feeling that the Gold Cloaks are pretty much glorified security guards, and are all looked down upon - allowing anyone into their ranks.

Spoiler: show

Yes... but he was a lord. As Mortus said, titles are everything (why knights are Ser and whatever the kingslayer is, he's still a knight, etc.). Slynt may have been a son of a butcher before but now he has a title, granted to him by the king himself, no less, and that's enough. And yeah, they were kinda bad/corrupt before the war but during the war, they took in everybody and that made them worse.

Yes... but he was a lord. As Mortus said, titles are everything (why knights are Ser and whatever the kingslayer is, he's still a knight, etc.). Slynt may have been a butcher before but now he has a title and that's enough. And yeah, they were kinda bad/corrupt before the war but during the war, they took in everybody and that made them worse.

Spoiler: show

He became a lord, but he was already commander of the Golden Cloaks before that happened. Lordship does not seem to be required to be the commander. The books expand on that by showing that he is also extorting money from the troops, and so I cannot imagine they will be sad to see him go. Therefore the comparison would be between butcher or sellsword, and if I were in that same position I would much rather have a sell-sword leading me than a butcher.

The problem is in that world titles reign supreme, and going against the old laws usually gets you killed. So while Janos was a big douche, he was still a high ranking douche. Bronn has no rank nor title, and given that he's a sell-sword and was never even sworn into the Kingsguard, the rest of the Kingsguard would take that as a huge slight against their honor that he was suddenly given command.

Spoiler: show

I just want to clear something up before it derails others. The City Watch is the Gold Cloaks. Slynt was commander, now Bronn is per the HBO series. The Kingsguard are the white cloaks, a sworn brotherhood of bodyguards to the King. Bronn is not part of that group.

I need to re-watch last night's episode (S2E2) and try and clear my head first. I spent most of the episode drumming my fingers angrily. Having read all the books, there are enough variations with just that one episode to annoy me. The first season made some tweaks from the books, but nothing terribly major. The upside to this is that they are making it harder for the book folks to provide spoilers.

Mortus wrote:

As far as the whole Bronn situation, I agree it doesn't make any sense. But then again, I think they were trying to keep the "new character" count to as few as possible. The same reason that Roz is running Littlefinger's shop instead, I suppose.

I agree with the comment regarding Bronn and limiting "new character", but heartily disagree about Ros. She is a character invented for the TV series. According to the writers' commentary on the S1 discs, the actress performed so well they wrote more of a role for her into the series, hence the heading off to King's Landing and in S2 becoming a prominent persona in Littlefinger's establishment. It provides a nice avenue to portray things on-screen that are normally difficult. How do you film the thoughts and motivations of a character? You could have an external narration where they explain to the audience while they go about their business, or you can have a character to whom they explain these things.

He didn't become a Ser until shortly before he was removed from his post. He was just the son of a butcher for *years* as the Commander.

Spoiler: show

I get the feeling you may be confusing The Kingsguard with the City Watch. Janos was a LINO (Lord in Name Only) and a very recent one at that. It was no more difficult to displace him than it was to nominate Bronn in his stead. As acting King's Hand, Tyrion *could* have bestowed Lord title on Bronn as well...though I saw no indication that he did.

I actually like the way these stories flow. There are other shows that I watch (Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, The Killing) that just spend way too much time lingering on boring shit. With GoT I am finding myself surprised to be at the end of the episode when it happens. When Craster knocked out Jon I was totally expecting at least ten more minutes of the show, and had no idea that would be a cliffhanger.

I get the feeling you may be confusing The Kingsguard with the City Watch. Janos was a LINO (Lord in Name Only) and a very recent one at that.

He was named a Ser and given title to Harrenhal as reward for arresting Eddard Stark and capturing/killing nearly all of his house in King's Landing, making him Ser Janos Slynt, Lord of Harrenhal. Though I am not sure how much of that was captured, much less detailed, in the TV show. But, going by the idea that Bronn's appointments go against the books, I'll assume they did the same in the TV show.

In the end, you and I agree that it's not difficult to replace Slynt with Bronn and the city watch wouldn't give a shit, and I think that was the focus here

I get the feeling you may be confusing The Kingsguard with the City Watch. Janos was a LINO (Lord in Name Only) and a very recent one at that.

He was named a Ser and given title to Harrenhal as reward for arresting Eddard Stark and capturing/killing nearly all of his house in King's Landing, making him Ser Janos Slynt, Lord of Harrenhal. Though I am not sure how much of that was captured, much less detailed, in the TV show. But, going by the idea that Bronn's appointments go against the books, I'll assume they did the same in the TV show.

In the end, you and I agree that it's not difficult to replace Slynt with Bronn and the city watch wouldn't give a shit, and I think that was the focus here

Spoiler: show

I was just using LINO with tongue-in-cheek. I do know he was deeded/landed after his 'good deed.' But yup, we agree.

So I'm reading comments on a gawker thread and some person laments that Theon is such an asshole and to tell them that he dies later in the books. No one spoils shit until the very end, but I'm not sure how they got that impression of Theon from the show. He hasn't done anything assholish other than the way he has sex with women. He's an outsider no matter where he goes, he doesn't get assholish until later in the series.

The funny thing is that I was thinking about that earlier and thought to myself...

Spoiler: show

He's going to be quite easy to make the transformation to Reek, as he already seems half a Reek already lol. I think the problem is that he (the character) grew up in one lifestyle and is not used to how things are on the Iron Islands anymore. The part with the neckpiece with his father was proof of that.

Theon may be somewhat of a douche, but he does appear to have the Stark's best interest in mind. His disillusionment at returning home with a proposal for his father to be king of the Iron Islands again, only to be scorned and dismissed, is what creates the opportunity for him to betray his "brothers" back in Winterfell. He ultimately will seek approval from his father by turning his cloak against the Starks. And if you haven't gotten to book 5 yet, what befalls him later is either the most horrific form of karmic retribution I've ever seen, or just desserts. Depends on your perspective of how much pressure he was under to gain his father's respect.

This was the first episode of the entire series that I just flat out didn't like. This is coming from the perspective of someone who has read the books too many times, and I realize they need to trim things here and there and make certain amendments to adapt the books to the screen, but I think they are really missing the tone of a number of things here.

Spoiler: show

Asha is all wrong. 100% wrong. No attitude, no wit and doesn't look at all correct. Also, did they change her name??? What the fuck is up with that?

Two episodes into this season and none of the D'stone characters are really working for me. Stannis isn't projecting the kind of iron I would expect from him. Yes, he's saying Stannis' lines, but he doesn't exude Stannis-ness as far as I'm concerned. Melisandre doesn't have the exotic sense of mystery about her. She's just a hot chick who delivers religious platitudes in a somewhat bored fashion before sexing Stannis up. Davos is alright, but he seems way more macho and confident in the TV show than he does in the books. Davos is a good and cautious man, a loyal man, but he carries some Sean Connery like bravura in the show which doesn't quite fit for me (even though I do kind of like the effect it has on the character).

Rakharo is dead? Dammit!

Bronn as captain of the gold cloaks? Huh? Though I'm willing to go along with that I guess. No reason to bring Bywater into the TV show.

There's too much "show and tell" going on with Craster. I think we can just have someone say "he sacrifices his boy-children to the Others" without having some hackneyed scene where Jon Snow trails him in the night and witnesses him giving a baby to the Others. Also, Craster isn't "back woods hick" enough for my liking. He seems like another Night's Watchman who just decided he was going to blow off his oath and move beyond the wall.

Jaqen H'gar seemed to lack a bit of intensity, but there's still time for the actor playing that part to bring some more to the role. Lots of interesting moments coming up for sure...

The only thing that felt right to me was Arya's interactions with Gendry. That had some real charm and chemistry.

While watching last night, when Jaqen H'gar introduced himself, I kind of grimmaced and my wife said, "What's wrong?" Well, he wasn't what I'd expect him to look like. Then again, considering SPOILER and SPOILER, I should get over it because someone who SPOILER is able to be SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER.

IMO, nothing says "back woods hick" quite like having sex with your granddaughter, who is also your daughter. Bonus points if one of the older ones is also his sister.

I actually think he's far too clean-cut for the role. A little too soft around the edges as well. My mental picture of him in the books was far more scraggly and dirty, more gruff, and scarier.

Spoiler: show

Though I liked how the talked about 'what happens to the boy children', and how the last 6 wildling villages they came to were empty, yet here Crastor sits, just fine; I don't recall how this played out in the books...I never went back and re-read them, and book 2 was a long time ago for me. I didn't remember Crastor bashing Snow over the head like that...

Yeah, what Frennzy said. I think Craster looks too clean-cut for what he is: a dirty daughter-banger.

And...

Spoiler: show

Psyche!

And also...

Spoiler: show

Craster never does the whole "sneak out into the woods to murder my son" bit in the books. It's implied but not shown. He also doesn't bonk Jon on the head. Jon also doesn't behave like such an asshat in front of Craster. Most infuriatingly, however, is the fact that they left out the Others' hoverboards. That accounts for the strange sound you hear every time they appear.

I guess since I just finished reading the 2nd book a few weeks ago, some of the deviations stood out a bit. Bronn getting appointed to the City Watch was a bit of an eyebrow raiser, but also showing Jon Snow observe the "sacrifice"... that never happened. He was told that by the daughter who approached him. Also the whole scene w/ the Red Priestess was stupid and not in the books. Yay boobies and all, but that didn't seem to go with how the character of Stannis was written, given how principled he was in the books, it doesn't make sense that he'd cheat on his wife. I have a feeling I know how they are going to tie it in to the plot though in future episodes.

Those of you commenting on Gendry, how does he come across as different in the series than in the books?

Stannis quite explicitly cheats on his wife in the books. The shadows that kill Renly and the lord holding Storm's End were both Stannis' "children".

As far as changes from the books; I don't quite understand the mentality that deviating from the source is a bad thing in itself. If it makes for better TV, I say go for it.

It's not like the books are some inviolate source of brilliance. Even in ACoK and ASoS, there are some storylines which are frankly boring (let's not even mention the mess of AFfC and ADwD). I see the TV series as not only a way to translate the books to screen, but to improve on them.

I'd argue that some of the decisions being made in Season 2 aren't making for better TV at all. There were nips and tucks in Season 1 that made perfect sense but I feel like the showrunners are gunning for the True Blood crowd a bit more this year, trading some solid character moments for lurid thrills, or making some things explicit that don't need to be. I just feel like things in Season 1 were handled more deftly.

I'd argue that some of the decisions being made in Season 2 aren't making for better TV at all. There were nips and tucks in Season 1 that made perfect sense but I feel like the showrunners are gunning for the True Blood crowd a bit more this year, trading some solid character moments for lurid thrills, or making some things explicit that don't need to be. I just feel like things in Season 1 were handled more deftly.

Agreed here. The scene between Stannis and Melisandre, while implied later in the book, was never mentioned explicitly (pretty sure even what was spoilered earlier was never explicitly mentioned). Also, the scene at the end came completely from left field, and I'm really confused as to what their plan is going to be to resolve the cliffhanger.