As I'm watching a friend (and a bunch of others) in the teens follow around a r50 in Copperbell, gaining close to 350 SP per mob... I feel compelled to keep this issue known.

Where's the fix to this exploitation? Is SE clueless, or do they just not care that their game is this cheap? There's examples of this sort of thing all over the place - use of this is speeding up, not slowing down.

Edit - if it's not clear, SP is going to ranks it should not be, and in doing so, the r50s are taking the mobs that the legit SPers should be getting.

Personally I think SE or Yoshi-P or whatever the heck his name is should of taken more time to test this patch before throwing it out not thinking of its consequences but thats why FF14 is so messed up in the first place isn't it? I can only think of the nonsense that will come with future updates.

Power leveling has been around since the early days of FFXI, I do not see SE doing anything about it anytime soon.

On the other hand you are correct about this even in FF11 you could PL people but unlike FF11 in FF14 only the R50 person needs to fight the rest can sit back and leech which is very cheesy and also will encourage RMT activity see as only 1 person need to do anything and the rest just tag along

This is something the "within 5 ranks" range of the party system should take care of. This system was implemented to prevent just what the OP said. Players within a range of 5 ranks gain normal SP while the SP get lowered if there are party members much lower or higher. Seems like it's broken then.

While I understand that by your video game morals what they are doing is wrong. By their video game morals its not wrong enough to make them not do it. If these people end up with 3 classes to 50 by the time you legitly(by your video game morals standard) get one to 50 did that make your journey to 50 less enjoyable? If this was a pvp game I could see how it might give them an advantage but being that this is a 100% pve game with zero end game content I am just kinda struggling to see how this negatively effects you.

From what I read about this PL exploit, it only works until around the low 20s, at which point the lower gap between player and monster level, along with the lower SP you get per monster past rank 20, kicks in and makes it impractical to continue.

So at the worst, it just gets people to level 20-25 a bit faster than normal, which isn't exactly super horrible, considering how quickly you can hit 25 in any fighting class post patch.

From what I read about this PL exploit, it only works until around the low 20s, at which point the lower gap between player and monster level, along with the lower SP you get per monster past rank 20, kicks in and makes it impractical to continue.

So at the worst, it just gets people to level 20-25 a bit faster than normal, which isn't exactly super horrible, considering how quickly you can hit 25 in any fighting class post patch.

Kirby's response is reason enough why this should be changed, but even moreso is the fact that they're taking away prime SP spots. I couldn't SP in Copperbell tonight if I wanted because of it, and I watched as a few players of approperiate rank were really compromised by this.

I this is just a poor side effect of how forgiving the partying system in FFXIV is. They want lots of people and a wide range of levels to be able to party together, but then it lets this PLing happen.

While I understand that by your video game morals what they are doing is wrong. By their video game morals its not wrong enough to make them not do it. If these people end up with 3 classes to 50 by the time you legitly(by your video game morals standard) get one to 50 did that make your journey to 50 less enjoyable?

Putting "video game" in front of something does not make it suddenly dismissible; also, being an MMO -- played with real people -- the "real" morality that can apply still applies. If you aren't cheating face-to-face, then I don't see why you can cheat if there's a screen between you.

It's people like you -- people who think that talking to someone in a "video game" doesn't count as talking with a person -- who make online a bad place. You leave parties with no notice because that's just "video game morals," you cheat or take whatever you can from other "video game" people... for that matter, why should anyone here respect what you have to say? That's just "video game forum" courtesy, right?

____________________________

"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."

While I understand that by your video game morals what they are doing is wrong. By their video game morals its not wrong enough to make them not do it. If these people end up with 3 classes to 50 by the time you legitly(by your video game morals standard) get one to 50 did that make your journey to 50 less enjoyable?

Putting "video game" in front of something does not make it suddenly dismissible; also, being an MMO -- played with real people -- the "real" morality that can apply still applies. If you aren't cheating face-to-face, then I don't see why you can cheat if there's a screen between you.

It's people like you -- people who think that talking to someone in a "video game" doesn't count as talking with a person -- who make online a bad place. You leave parties with no notice because that's just "video game morals," you cheat or take whatever you can from other "video game" people... for that matter, why should anyone here respect what you have to say? That's just "video game forum" courtesy, right?

Sorry in real life I dont kill other people but in video games with pvp I regularly do so yes video game morality and non video game morality are totally different. Also this is JUST A GAME the things I do in this game are for enjoyment not for a job application or for anything important, who I am in game and my beliefs in game do not in anyway reflect who I am in real life. What if I RP as a murderous thief in FFXIV does that mean I am a murderous thief in real life? The answer is no.

Also on your coment about this issue, has SE come out and said its cheating? What makes it cheating exactly? Is it cheating because they did nothing and got exp for it? What if you joined a party and the party leader killed a goat near the camp and you didnt participate in the kill but you got exp. Did you just cheat? Were you exploiting the situation? Where is the line drawn? Is getting exp for 1 kill that you didnt participate in ok but getting exp for 50 you didnt participate in cheating?

While I understand that by your video game morals what they are doing is wrong. By their video game morals its not wrong enough to make them not do it. If these people end up with 3 classes to 50 by the time you legitly(by your video game morals standard) get one to 50 did that make your journey to 50 less enjoyable?

Putting "video game" in front of something does not make it suddenly dismissible; also, being an MMO -- played with real people -- the "real" morality that can apply still applies. If you aren't cheating face-to-face, then I don't see why you can cheat if there's a screen between you.

It's people like you -- people who think that talking to someone in a "video game" doesn't count as talking with a person -- who make online a bad place. You leave parties with no notice because that's just "video game morals," you cheat or take whatever you can from other "video game" people... for that matter, why should anyone here respect what you have to say? That's just "video game forum" courtesy, right?

Sorry in real life I dont kill other people but in video games with pvp I regularly do so yes video game morality and non video game morality are totally different. Also this is JUST A GAME the things I do in this game are for enjoyment not for a job application or for anything important, who I am in game and my beliefs in game do not in anyway reflect who I am in real life. What if I RP as a murderous thief in FFXIV does that mean I am a murderous thief in real life? The answer is no.

Also on your coment about this issue, has SE come out and said its cheating? What makes it cheating exactly? Is it cheating because they did nothing and got exp for it? What if you joined a party and the party leader killed a goat near the camp and you didnt participate in the kill but you got exp. Did you just cheat? Were you exploiting the situation? Where is the line drawn? Is getting exp for 1 kill that you didnt participate in ok but getting exp for 50 you didnt participate in cheating?

1.) I said that "the 'real' morality that can apply still applies" in my post; clearly, since you're not actually murdering anyone... that doesn't apply.

2.) You didn't address the second paragraph at all.

____________________________

"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."

While I understand that by your video game morals what they are doing is wrong. By their video game morals its not wrong enough to make them not do it. If these people end up with 3 classes to 50 by the time you legitly(by your video game morals standard) get one to 50 did that make your journey to 50 less enjoyable?

Putting "video game" in front of something does not make it suddenly dismissible; also, being an MMO -- played with real people -- the "real" morality that can apply still applies. If you aren't cheating face-to-face, then I don't see why you can cheat if there's a screen between you.

It's people like you -- people who think that talking to someone in a "video game" doesn't count as talking with a person -- who make online a bad place. You leave parties with no notice because that's just "video game morals," you cheat or take whatever you can from other "video game" people... for that matter, why should anyone here respect what you have to say? That's just "video game forum" courtesy, right?

Sorry in real life I dont kill other people but in video games with pvp I regularly do so yes video game morality and non video game morality are totally different. Also this is JUST A GAME the things I do in this game are for enjoyment not for a job application or for anything important, who I am in game and my beliefs in game do not in anyway reflect who I am in real life. What if I RP as a murderous thief in FFXIV does that mean I am a murderous thief in real life? The answer is no.

Also on your coment about this issue, has SE come out and said its cheating? What makes it cheating exactly? Is it cheating because they did nothing and got exp for it? What if you joined a party and the party leader killed a goat near the camp and you didnt participate in the kill but you got exp. Did you just cheat? Were you exploiting the situation? Where is the line drawn? Is getting exp for 1 kill that you didnt participate in ok but getting exp for 50 you didnt participate in cheating?

1.) I said that "the 'real' morality that can apply still applies" in my post; clearly, since you're not actually murdering anyone... that doesn't apply.

2.) You didn't address the second paragraph at all.

I understand real morality CAN still apply to a video game. I dont think it does apply when someone joins a party and and goes afk while another party member kills pixel monsters. As far as addressing the second paragraph I will say that there have been times where I made "online a bad place" for people I will admit it. I have corpse camped a many a foe in pvp games. As far as leaving parties without notice thats not something I do regularly. I wouldnt go as far as to say I have never done it but I couldnt tell you the last time i did. As far as me cheating I can say without a shadow of a doubt I have not cheated in any way shape or form in FFXIV nor have I taken whatever I could from other gamers.As far as people having respect for what I say in game or on this forum I wouldnt love it if everyone hated me and disagreed with me but at the end of the day this is just the internet I dont know any of you in real life and other than the time I spend here messin around you dont effect my life in the least so your opinions of me dont hold nearly as much weight to me as anyone I know in real life.

So did you decide where the line should be drawn on exploiting? 1 mob 50 mobs 500 mobs? Its a slippery slope.

So did you decide where the line should be drawn on exploiting? 1 mob 50 mobs 500 mobs? Its a slippery slope.

An exploit is an exploit. Why should anyone need to draw a line? If you knowingly do something that is not part of the games intentions, you are exploiting. And you know for a FACT that what is happening here is not how the game is supposed to be played. Saying otherwise is just propagating lies to keep your paper thin argument afloat.

So did you decide where the line should be drawn on exploiting? 1 mob 50 mobs 500 mobs? Its a slippery slope.

An exploit is an exploit. Why should anyone need to draw a line? If you knowingly do something that is not part of the games intentions, you are exploiting. And you know for a FACT that what is happening here is not how the game is supposed to be played. Saying otherwise is just propagating lies to keep your paper thin argument afloat.

Let me start by saying I do most of my playing in game solo, I say most because i do party for behest. I do not cheat or use what you seem to think is an exploit. But just because i dont do it doesnt mean I think it should be taken away from people who do it. You say "Why should anyone need to draw a line?" My answer is this. If SE decideds getting SP/EXP from a mob that you did not actively participate in killing is an exploit then its an exploit. Be it one mob, 50 or 500. I dont like the idea of this being considered an exploit. What if i go afk because my kid set the house on fire and my buddy who i am duoing with has killed 10 mobs while i was gone. Should SE ban my account? Asking SE to put more restrictions on my gameplay isnt my idea of a fun time. Looks like I am in the minority.

I find it lame but I don't find it that much a big deal. You can now easily get 700-900SP a kill in leves, 150-200 a kill in behest, 150-350 a kill when soloing. Its easy no matter if you are getting PL'd or not. They just doing it the "cheap and easy" way.

So did you decide where the line should be drawn on exploiting? 1 mob 50 mobs 500 mobs? Its a slippery slope.

An exploit is an exploit. Why should anyone need to draw a line? If you knowingly do something that is not part of the games intentions, you are exploiting. And you know for a FACT that what is happening here is not how the game is supposed to be played. Saying otherwise is just propagating lies to keep your paper thin argument afloat.

Let me start by saying I do most of my playing in game solo, I say most because i do party for behest. I do not cheat or use what you seem to think is an exploit. But just because i dont do it doesnt mean I think it should be taken away from people who do it. You say "Why should anyone need to draw a line?" My answer is this. If SE decideds getting SP/EXP from a mob that you did not actively participate in killing is an exploit then its an exploit. Be it one mob, 50 or 500. I dont like the idea of this being considered an exploit. What if i go afk because my kid set the house on fire and my buddy who i am duoing with has killed 10 mobs while i was gone. Should SE ban my account? Asking SE to put more restrictions on my gameplay isnt my idea of a fun time. Looks like I am in the minority.

Y'know, I had started to write a cohesive response to this, but it really just isn't worth my time. What a load of crap.

So did you decide where the line should be drawn on exploiting? 1 mob 50 mobs 500 mobs? Its a slippery slope.

An exploit is an exploit. Why should anyone need to draw a line? If you knowingly do something that is not part of the games intentions, you are exploiting. And you know for a FACT that what is happening here is not how the game is supposed to be played. Saying otherwise is just propagating lies to keep your paper thin argument afloat.

Let me start by saying I do most of my playing in game solo, I say most because i do party for behest. I do not cheat or use what you seem to think is an exploit. But just because i dont do it doesnt mean I think it should be taken away from people who do it. You say "Why should anyone need to draw a line?" My answer is this. If SE decideds getting SP/EXP from a mob that you did not actively participate in killing is an exploit then its an exploit. Be it one mob, 50 or 500. I dont like the idea of this being considered an exploit. What if i go afk because my kid set the house on fire and my buddy who i am duoing with has killed 10 mobs while i was gone. Should SE ban my account? Asking SE to put more restrictions on my gameplay isnt my idea of a fun time. Looks like I am in the minority.

Y'know, I had started to write a cohesive response to this, but it really just isn't worth my time. What a load of crap.

It blows my mind people are defending what is clearly an exploit. I can not wait to see the rage that will be thrown at SE when its addressed by the same people.

Eh it reminds me of the Salvage exploits and the rage a certain forum went through when the secret got out and it got fixed and judgement was handed out. Generally the rule is "If you benefit from the exploit it's not an exploit." but to certain gamers "Yes it's an exploit but so what? They left it in I can use it."

This though I'm not sure is a full on exploit as rank 1-24 was specifically designed to go through quickly these days.

The wya I understand it, the usefulness of this drops off after level 30 or so.

The end result is that players can go from 1-30 very quickly, which at this stage represents no problem really. Further, I'm thinking anything that gets people to play is just fine in the Dev's eyes. It's really not breaking the game or hurting anyone elses gameplay, is it?

When your Rank 50 friend says "Comon play FFXIV with me, I can PL you to 30+ in a couple days!" and you join FFXIV because of this, who is hurt?

I am only attempting to discuss the flip side of the issue here, as I would prefer strongly that you have to earn every level based on your own accomplishments.

I really didn't want to come back to this thread, but I have to question some peoples idea of what constitutes an exploit. How is it possible that someone can afk level from 1-24 without even touching their character, and do it CONSIDERABLY faster than they would on their own not considered an exploit?

Certainly its not a game-breaking situation, but it's still pretty lame. RMT can still use this to level up a multitude of characters to r24 in a matter of hours with only a single person being active. I just find it very difficult to justify not fixing this, and even harder that other people seem to think this is just fine and dandy. No, it's not ruining my game experience, but neither was the healing/buffing sp exploit that got fixed back when the game first came out. Just because something doesn't negatively impact every player does not mean that it shouldn't be corrected.

In FFXI there was 'level sync' that would allow a player to level down and play with friends.

There was also the ability to round up mobs, and let your friends obliterate them while you heal them outside of party.

There has never been an MMO I've played where powerleveling was 'impossible' - they all had their own limitations, sure - but I look at it like this; If a person is willing to invest their time to help a friend catch up to him at no other gain to himself, then great! I don't see this as any 'less fair' than people joining a big 'end-game group' that can get them gear easily, while other people 'work' for gear solo and in small groups. It boils down to one thing - how good are your friends, since in an MMO, that is what will determine 'how good you are'.

That being said, if there was a way to make it 100% 'across the board' fair and make it so the incentives to join large groups (which has way less risk and requires way less skill) than soloing (which requires way more work and way more skill) were 100% identical (same quality rewards despite the different number of people involved) I'd be all for it - but the reality is that this will never happen, since it's an MMO, it's centered around the image of Massively Multiplayer gaming ideals - therefor if in endgame one hundred people can help one person get an item, I believe that inversely, one strong person should also be able to help one hundred people. If that comes in the form of "power-leveling", then that is a sacrifice I don't really have a problem with.

The only downside is this 'can' breed stupidity... however, these days even stupid people find ways to succeed because MMO's have strength in numbers, and there are a lot more stupid and average people than intelligent and skilled ones. So if you are stuck playing with people who don't know how to play the game at any-given-level no matter what (which you are) you might as well let them get powere-leveled and learn in a few-day crash-course at the end of the game (because yes, usually the core mechanics of Classes and Jobs in an MMO, despite involving a long time to level up, only take a day or so to become familiar with and utilize efficiently enough to not be a problem - anyone who's created High Level test characters in other MMOs can confirm this). Of course, stupid people won't read this anyhow, since the speed at which they can consume actual paragraphs are significantly slower than say, the rate at which they can consume depressingly bad shorthand on their less-daunting cell phones.

Powerleveling will happen. it happens in every game.The main difference in this game and some of the other games(like wow) where people powerlevel is in this game there is no content and no instanced dungons. In wow I have powerleveled many a character through the various instances and it hurt absolutely noone. Maybe the real issue is SE and their lack of content and lack of instanced dungons.

I would have to say this is the most unbiased response in this thread, too bad it has nothing to do with it though.

Honestly for me I don't care what they do, if it is an exploit they will get banned if not then they won't. I don't understand why people get on a forum screaming and yelling, or just saying it, about something like this when the only thing that will happen is that either someone agrees with you or doesn't. What you really need to do is report it to the developers that you feel that this is an exploit and they will decide whether it is or is not.

____________________________

Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness." "That is the sound of people drowning Carl." Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."

I will never understand why people cry about the ability for people to invite friends to play and give them a boos tto catch them up.

" I like ladder oriented systems where I get to rub dirt in people's faces cause I have 50 R Jobs and they don't ". If you haven't learned by now, no one will sub to a game that doesn't allow some kind of progression scheme, then, you shouldn't expect to enjoy any MMORPG. Better stick to single player, I heard Dragon Age II is supposed to be good!

Stop trying to grief on people who are having fun for the first time in a while since launch.

I will never understand why people cry about the ability for people to invite friends to play and give them a boos tto catch them up.

" I like ladder oriented systems where I get to rub dirt in people's faces cause I have 50 R Jobs and they don't ". If you haven't learned by now, no one will sub to a game that doesn't allow some kind of progression scheme, then, you shouldn't expect to enjoy any MMORPG. Better stick to single player, I heard Dragon Age II is supposed to be good!

Stop trying to grief on people who are having fun for the first time in a while since launch.

Thanks,

Me.

I personally hate it when friends offer me boosts to level up faster. I find it hard to decline, even though I have no interest in suddenly being saddled with a high level character that I have no idea how to use.

I agree - in PVP or competitive environments, I hate ladder oriented systems. I'm primarily coming from FPS gaming, and one reason I stopped playing Team Fortress 2 was the gear acquisition nonsense. I want skill to shine when I'm playing competitively, not how many hours I spent grinding gear to make fancy new weapons. In MMOs, however, I'm not playing to top PVE or PVP leaderboards, I'm playing because it's really fun. If leveling up isn't fun, I'm not gonna do it, which is precisely why I hated the FFXIV beta, but it looks like it might be turning the corner now.

If a game requires lots and lots of boring crap in order to be fun, why play it?

Q. Why did the version update that went live on October 15, 2010 alter the party bonus to be based upon class rank rather than the number of party members? A. Under the previous settings, since party bonuses were calculated solely on the number of party members, even players who were too low-level to effectively participate in combat were being awarded extra skill points simply by being present in the party. The alterations to the system were made to prevent exploitation of this in the form of “power leveling.”

Q. If I am in a party with someone beyond the ±5 class rank range, will I be getting less skill points than I would be if I were playing solo? A. No. Rather, the amount of skill points awarded in these two instances would be the same, regardless of whether the player is solo or in a party. If a party bonus is not in effect, the amount of skill points capable of being obtained will be the same.

The rank range that allows for bonus skill and experience point within a party has been expanded from ±5 to +5/-10. Ex. In a party of three players, ranks 10, 15, and 20, the rank 10 player receives bonuses equivalent to that of a two-person party, as only one of the other players is within the rank range. From the perspectives of the rank 15 and 20 players, however, both of the other two party members fall within the rank range. They will therefore both receive bonuses equivalent to a three-person party.

The old system had it's flaw wherein you could spam actions, let the monster live and get a crap ton of exp. That was an exploit to SE, personally I don't think it is as in FFXI we had to have skill-up parties where we spammed spells on ourselves.

That said the form of power-leveling we have now to me is not that bad as I've hit fatigue on my jobs within a very short time and the rank at which it goes up after is almost 20 minutes/rank and that's just leve linking with my guild on r40's and I'm r33.

So when the R50 is running around they only experience the people get is what they would have gotten if they killed the monster solo and it WILL drop fast as they level. I know because I had a r50 friend take me from archer 10-12 and it went from 256 a kill to 175.

At Christmas I spent 1 week @ 5 hours per day leveling and I never hit fatigue once on my conjurer. I went from 14-26 just helping out in leves of my rank and soloing/duoing.

Now with the new system I went from 20-24 archer and hit fatigue in 1 day where I never played archer for 5 days prior to that. I've hit fatigue 5 times in the last week on 3 jobs >.> BUT I approve of this since I want to level others as well.

SE made this system. They told us we would still get experience if someone was outside there +/- 5 range. To me it's not an exploit. It may be unfair to those that spent the time to level to 50+ already but SQUARE wants to:

Quote:

Enable players the ability to engage in more goal-oriented content, such as the hunting of notorious monsters, at an earlier stage of play.

The changes were placed because:

Quote:

The above changes will serve to increase the tempo of battle, and also allow players to obtain more skill points than was previously possible.

If someone can legitimately show me this is wrong without being butthurt about it, I'm open to those opinion's as well.

As a note: Guildwars, Aion, LOTRO all allow you to gain experience from being in the party. Some have limits such as you have to touch the monster once, or you have to be within 25 feet. Guildwars use to be that you just needed to be in same zone and they nerfed it, but did not ban anyone for it.

In aion as long as the person killing the monster gets some form of experience, even 1, then you do. Maybe they should do this with FFXIV, but I'm sure we would have an out-cry if a r50 PL'd some people in Mordhona or coerthas :(

Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

Much as we expected, the vast majority of players are spending most of their play time engaged in battle-oriented content, with synthesis activities coming in second. I cannot help but be concerned over the 4.6% result for socializing. This leads me to believe that in its current state, the game is lacking group-oriented goals and means of communication. Rest assured we will be addressing this issue together with the battle system.

PL'ing gives groups plenty of time to chat it up. Two birds with one stone, Yoshi P. is a genius.

Much as we expected, the vast majority of players are spending most of their play time engaged in battle-oriented content, with synthesis activities coming in second. I cannot help but be concerned over the 4.6% result for socializing. This leads me to believe that in its current state, the game is lacking group-oriented goals and means of communication. Rest assured we will be addressing this issue together with the battle system.

PL'ing gives groups plenty of time to chat it up. Two birds with one stone, Yoshi P. is a genius.

Edited, Feb 9th 2011 8:54pm by Kirby

Naked rank 10's? Yeah those are tards because i got 1-10 in 5 Guildleves on mule... I was thinking its more ok 10+ myself, after you had a chance to try things on your own :) I still don't have a problem Pling a new friend though to at least 10 to help them out ^^

Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

I, along with most of the other people who play any mmo do so to fulfill a competitive nature and the sence of accomplishment that comes along with it in a social setting. At the end of the day we do not receive anything tangible from the time we put in, just satisfaction. If someone exploits the game and diminishes the sence of satisfaction that others receive because of it I concider that far worse than if you were to steal from my character or be detrimental to my ability to progress throughout the game.