Southern Moderate African American Issues

Eric Johnson and school vouchers

State Senator Eric Johnson gets the backbone award from me because you pretty much know where he stands—whether you like his views or not.

From my brief blogging, it is clearly I like bridgebuilding and looking for common ground and I think Lt. Governor candidate Johnson will find a sizable number of African American voters with his pro-vouchers efforts.

My question concerns the ability of private schools to cherry-pick the best kids but I can say that public schools in many places are unacceptable because the students are not focused on learning.Good school, good teacher, scary classmates.

Noticed that Johnson is building a coalition of strong African American women (mothers) whom he has supported at pivotal political times:

Karen Bogans: Spelman graduate; considered run for Congress in Savannah against Rep. Barrows; Johnson was supportive.

Regina Thomas: ran for Congress in Savannah; Johnson was supportive.

Alisha Thomas Morgan: Spelman graduate; considered run for Congress; destined for the national political arena(in this writer’s opinion); Eric Johnson gets heat from the Cobb Co. GOP for donating to her campaign.

Mark my word, the Dem Team needs to revisit vouchers or it’s a wedge issue to separate African American parents and the Dems in the future.

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24 Responses

School vouchers are the right thing to do, but they’re predicated on a postulate that doesn’t exist, that school funding is done properly and equitably.

If school boards actually followed the principle that each student is assign the same dollar value in support then vouchers would not be an issue of contention among the sane population. Sadly, many – possibly most – school boards do no apportion funding in this manner.

School vouchers are an interesting phenomenal. I haven’t completely bought into the concept yet, but the question becomes why shouldn’t a parent have the option to send their child to the school of their choice AND be able to take those $7,000 or so with them in order to educate their child? Ultimately, it’s the child and the family that have responsibility for what goes on in that family. I understand that from a public school system’s perspective, their concern is that money will be taken out of the system, per child. Would there be a large enough exodus from these schools if the school vouchers become a reality? I’m not sure. But from a business perspective, when one business sees that he’s got competition moving in next door, he’s going to step up his game so that he doesn’t lose business –lose money. If’s he’s been complacent, then maybe he will become less complacent. Maybe the same scenario can apply to our public school systems. If the administrators and powers to be recognizes that parents have the ability to take their child out of their school system and the monies along with that child, there may be adjustments made that will force them to become more ‘competitive.’

The valid argument against school vouchers that I can see is the one I cited. Sadly, since I got the data from several different teachers in different states I’m forced to into the working hypothesis that the argument is valid and therefor a problem.

Essentially the thought is that those $7000 / student won’t necessarily be “taken away” from the schools that those students would have attended, but instead be taken away from schools with already poor performance and/or schools with less ability to lobby the school board for funds.

Jonolan, I don’t see your logic. How can the $7,000 be taken away from any school other than the one that the “school choosing family” was assign to? If it isn’t,that’s not the voucher’s fault. It’s just another example of corruption in the government school system.

Ronald Daniels, if a “school choosing family” has the financial power to pick a school, they have the perfect vested interest to see that their chosen school teaches their kid. The school could not be more accountable for it’s performance. Any day the parents could choose a different school.

Sylram, “Cherry-picking” is actually true IN REVERSE. Children using vouchers are the one who are not doing well in their current public school. The honor-roll kids have no motivation to be uprooted from their friends and go to an unfamiliar school. The best research validates this. See Jay Greene’s work.http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/greene.htm

For counties with multiple schools, at leats public, the county Superintendent has a large degree of control over the system. For instance if he/she wants to set the maximum number of students at one school lower than the other, just to spite that one shcool then they can.

While the school is more accountable, the people fail to hold school board accountable. Look at Clayton county for example. Thats not a problem that will go away with vouchers.

The superintendent may have the power to spite one public school, and the people may fail to hold their school board accountable; but for the kid that escapes the government system with a voucher, none of that matters. He has escaped.

But the vouchers will actually clean up the system. Just as hba1 said,

“But from a business perspective, when one business sees that he’s got competition moving in next door, he’s going to step up his game so that he doesn’t lose business –lose money. If’s he’s been complacent, then maybe he will become less complacent.”

The irresponsible superintendent and school board will get their act together. If not, they will be supervising a shrinking part of the government pie.

Wow, this is a good debate/discussion and I have learned some things from it. The bottom line to me is that we need to have a top to bottom overhaul of the educational system that puts all of the cards on the table: teachers union, parents, home schooling, vouchers, merit pay, graduate rates, accountability.

The crisis centers on the fact that education is a big component in federal, state and local governmental budgets. Failing schools lead to an untrained workforce which leads to crime/drug and a under performing America.

Thomas Friedman’s “The World is Flat” will scary the daylights out of you regarding India, China and the “developing” world’s well-trained students and with computers connections jobs can be shipped aboard with the click of a mouse. (Evidently, they did not teach run-on sentences at my public high school or I was not focused that day.)

I briefly attended the University of Florida and we are proud of home school product quarterback Tim Tebow; but, what about the parents who are not as bright as Tebow’s who want to get a voucher to home school. I know there are state guidelines but I am concerned about socialization other than home and church. With today’s stagnate salaries, a public school educator makes a decent living and most (like my parents) really care/cared for their students’ growth and development. A few half-raised kids (10-20%) can really destroy the educational environment for everyone.

One thing is clear: if we don’t fixing the education system, we will continue pouring money into the prison system.

I think you are missing my point. I agree that vouchers are a good thing and increase accountability overall, but there are still accountability problems with that system – that can not be resolved until you get people interested in politics.

We have plenty of people who will continually reelect ignorant people who are not fit for any office, even when the chips hit rock bottom.

I am pleased that I’ve started a stimulating conversation. And it’s true, there has to be accountability in whatever system is in place. All children don’t learn the same, so the same methods shouldn’t have to be the same. And regarding Ronald’s comment about people getting interested in politics, that is precisely one of the reasons for creating this blog. Our people perish for lack of a vision. We shall also perish when we’re uninformed and misinformed. But the people have to take some responsibility and do their own research when they’re making choices for elected officials. Many politicians love it when the electorate is uninformed and when they don’t ask the hard and critical questions. Thanks for the dialogue…

I think I understand where you are coming from. IF WE HAD VOUCHERS, then we wouldn’t have to worry about who was the government school superintendent or who was on the school board. We could just take our voucher and walk away from the mess. If we had vouchers…

But we DON’T have vouchers (in Texas), and getting them is a purely political struggle. That’s where the politics comes in. Politics is “civilized war”. You fight with votes rather than guns.

Who is the enemy? I call it the education blob. Teachers unions, school board associations, principal associations, PTA’s (tragically), and all the vested interests who feed off of the government school monopoly. They have two powerful weapons. First, money. They collect union dues and PAC money from all the government school teachers. But more important than the money is that they have a strong built-in grassroots network, the public school employees. They have votes, organized votes. That is the enemy.

Are you ready to give up? I can understand if you are. But in my opinion, this battle has to be fought and has to be won. As this battle goes, so goes America. The “war on terror” is peanuts compared to this war.

What is the strategy? There is some money to be obtained from smart entrepreneurs, who understand the problem. We have school choice money is Texas.

What we don’t have is organized parents in minority Democratic districts. Parents must politically organize around this issue. Parent organizations must be strong enough to punish the hypocritical representatives, and reward the honest representatives with VOTES.

I’m trying to organize parents in Texas. I may never win, but I won’t quit fighting. The battle is too important.

Y’all are from Georgia. (Thank goodness the state and not the country.) You should be aware of good news in your state.

“As of 2008, Georgia is now a national leader in providing enhanced educational opportunities to parents. In 2007, the state enacted the Georgia Special Needs Scholarship program and in 2008, Governor Perdue approved a landmark $50 million Corporate and Individual Scholarship Tax Credit program. Aside from private school choice, however, Georgia offers limited public school choice and has a relatively weak charter school law.”http://www.allianceforschoolchoice.org/StateSchoolChoice/StateSchoolChoice_Georgia/

letschooseschools: this discussion has gone full circle; State Senator Eric Johnson here in Georgia is the chief advocate for school choice and the Special Needs voucher is his handily work.

What about thinking outside the box and putting some “voucher-like” programs on the table as a gateway to full choice. For example, vouchers for the discipline problem students to improve the quality of the educational experience for the focused majority of the student body. The discipline voucher could be taken from the tax refunds of the parents. Of course, this silly idea could just lead to more dropouts but what I am trying to do employ “cherry-picking” in the sense that the worst students should go also.

Put it like this: K-12 should be free for the majority of students and when your child starts messing up the educational process it costs the parents money.

I still hold steady to my argument. The parents who will move their kids are not the ones we presently need to worry about, many of these parents are already aware of the local government. The parents I am worried about could careless, well that sounds bad. Think about the parents who hear their child complain, then just decide: “oh so and so just doesn’t like school.”

Its very common. People who live in this sort of denial are the problem, as they generally turn out to be the least politically aware.

Those are the people I am concerned about. They will continue funding horrible schools and electing incompetent individuals. The end result is a veritable dystopia at the county level. I would love to believe vouchers would end this, and granted ti would help matters – but it is not the end all solution.

Personally, I love vouchers and I hope Senator Johnson can get this pushed through before he runs for Lt. Gov.

Ronald: your comment made me think of this article:
Other districts unlikely to arrest truant students’ parents
By CHANDLER BROWN
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Saturday, September 20, 2008
When DeKalb County authorities conducted their first “sweep” last week to crack down on school truancy, they got the attention of the 10 parents they arrested and charged with education neglect and possibly the 49 other parents with outstanding education neglect warrants.
Officials of other metro Atlanta school districts also took note, but they indicated they were unlikely to follow DeKalb’s example. Though they stopped short of outright criticizing DeKalb, they were quick to point out they are not in the business of enforcing the law.

“We’re not throwing parents in jail,” said Susan Hale, a spokeswoman for the 88,500-student Fulton County school district. “That’s not our job. We’re here to teach kids how to add.”
Under Georgia law, a student is considered truant after five unexcused absences.
At that point, the school district must send letters to the child’s parent warning of possible revocation of the student’s driver’s license and other penalties. At the same time, school officials are required to report the parents to a court of law or police agency.
Usually, the court will appoint someone to investigate why the child is chronically absent. School districts often assign a social worker to look into the problem. Where parental neglect is found, the courts usually issue a warning first, followed by a fine.
Rarely are parents thrown in jail, as nine were in DeKalb Tuesday and another the following day. After a night in custody, each appeared in court in orange jail jump suits. Multiple attempts to reach the parents were unsuccessful.
DeKalb officials have said they offer a diversion program for parents and typically do not take a parent to court until there’s at least 12 unexecused absenses in a single 180-day school year. Most of the parents facing arrest in DeKalb have children who have missed 40 to 50 days of school.
“If children are not in school, teachers cannot teach,” said Robert James, the county’s solicitor general.
Earlier, 39 DeKalb parents took advantage of an amnesty period to start resolving their cases. At least 49 other parents still face arrest warrants.
Educational neglect is a misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year in jail and a $1,000 fine.
Since school started Aug. 11, Fulton has reported 74 parents to the court system. Several have been reported more than once. Hale said she didn’t know the last time a parent was arrested for education neglect.
Gwinnett County school officials say penalties and interventions are helping to curb the truancy problem. It’s been years since the school has had to use the legal system to punish parents for failing to enforce the attendance policy, said district spokeswoman Sloan Roach.
“It’s rare that we get to that point,” Roach said.
In Cobb County, the school district tries to educate parents about truancy before going to court.
“Truancy is a predictor of delinquent behavior,” said Paul Pursell, Cobb truancy court coordinator. “I tell parents we don’t want to paint a gloomy picture, but we have to be truthful. If your child is truant, they may be doing something you don’t know about.”
Atlanta public schools have not jailed a parent in a truancy related case in recent memory, said spokesman Joe Manguno.
“We don’t arrest people,” he said. “We’ve never even discussed doing anything nearly as drastic as DeKalb did.”
The district has several administrators at the county office who go to the homes of students who miss school two or three days in a row.
“If they need a ride, we take them. If they woke up and had no breakfast, we buy it for them,” Manguno said. “More often than not, the kids aren’t missing because they simply don’t want to go to school.”
Jail should only be used as a last resort, and even then it raises serious concerns, such as disrupting the home by removing a parent for the night, said Paula Hall, a case manager with the Truancy Intervention Project, an Atlanta-based non-profit aimed at keeping kids in school.
“We try to work with parents and students to see what resources they need” before court action is required,

Wow, excellent article. Imagine, holding the guardians of minor children responsible for the kids’ behavior! Who else should you hold responsible?

But there is a fly in the ointment. The government creates a “hell hole” school for the kid and then punishes the parent for making sure that the kid attends the hell hole regularly. I agree with holding parents responsible for the care and discipline of their children. What I don’t like is not giving the parents the power to find a non-hell-hole school for their kids.

Ronald: I agree that there are plenty of bad parents. The hard question is what to do about it. I don’t want to do what Child Protective Services did with the LDS community in West Texas.

I don’t know how to make parents more responsible for their kids. I believe that if you give them responsibility they might learn to be responsible. But if the government treats them like idiots, who supposedly have no idea how to pick a good school, they are more likely to act like idiots.

Ga parents need to know that the truth about the SN Voucher. (SB10 Special Needs Scholarship, voucher)
We sadly were quick to try this new program. Our child has been in a school that functions like a babysitting service.
My very intelligent child was not being educated
The parent of difficult kids don’t get called about their disruptive kids, so it’s a win win for those types of families.

Teachers just quit after school started. My child had to put up with terroristic threats all day long. Violent chidren were tolerated.
I am shocked at what little education took place. The rare time work was done it was several, several grade levels lower than where my child was at.

Parents please please look before you leap.
Private schools are getting away with this in GA and the children suffer.
Public schools have issues, yes, however none of the above issues are allowed in public schools.

Things that are allowed in this private school would have made the nightly news has it been a public school.

Accountability is, for the most part, in place in public school.
Look before you leap…….
DON’T believe what these schools tell you when you apply.
Talk to the parents who removed their children, the ones who finished the year and never went back, or the ones who dropped out after 1-2 days there.
These school sue the parents who remove their children as well.

Shell: thanks for your imput regarding this serious matter. I hope your children’s unfortunate situation was a rare exception but if it is not you actions will beneficial to improvements. Have you shared your concerns with the proper education and elected officials?

One great thing about the internet is that you can building a parents information network or advocate shop that could get to the bottom of these problems.

Thanks for replying to me slyram.
Would you have time to help me come up with a contact list over my situation?
I have dealt with the obvious Voucher dept but the current rules/laws have no teeth regarding abuse of the voucher.
The state hope to implement something soon…..
Unless fraud specifically with $ took place they can’t help you.
I am welcome to file my complaint again when the rules are in place, to warn other parents.

Who else though should I have contacted?

I still can’t believe this school has the gaul to attempt to sue my family.
If anything the state deserves a refund from them!

My son spent his day chatting with his buddy there!
What a waste of tax dollars and loss of an entire year of his schooling 😦
Thanks again!

Shell: Sorry that I am just getting back to your comments—busy weekend. This is a good time to contact the proper officials because the state legislature is in session. I think you would write a summary letter of the situation and send it to your state representative, state senator, the state school superintendent. Then, you should email the same letter to the state legislative committees with education oversight plus send an email to Eric Johnson because he is a get stuff done kind of guy.

I hope parents considering using the voucher will REALLY do their research. Call the state and ask about complaints.
Look up the legal dockets for the state on the staff and the school. Look up via the county public records.
Dig around.
Know if you land in an awful situation and you leave they will sue you for the lost revenue from the voucher.

A public school would never get away with not following basic education laws , and they also can’t sue you to force you to stay a whole school year.