At 09:47 13/07/99 -0700, James Jandebeur wrote:
>> BTW, has anyone ever tried to make Taskmaster for HERO? He is one
>> of my favorites, but has potential problems (No Skills in a VPP). You
>> could probably model his abilities with OCV and DCV bonuses with a minor
>> limitation, buying them up to permanence, and use the VPP for any Powers
>> that are considered "Skills."

Why would Taskmaster have a VPP?
The only VPP part would be his equipment.

What would be better expressed is combat levels (5 or 8 points) only versus
people he has observed for x rounds - made perception test etc .
Maybe a -1/4 point limitation or just SE.
Maybe danger sense with the same limitation with the same limitation

His already gained abilities of the people that he's studied so they would
be base powers and attributes.

****************************************************************************
The Politician's Slogan
'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
****************************************************************************

My TaskMaster has High human stats, superhuman agility, all martial arts
maneuvers and weapons elements, he carries a large weapon pool that is for his
grenades and variable weapons, he also has the shield, sword, billy club, gun,
and bow that I have seen him use in almost every encounter. He has all the dex
based skills, two overall levels, three all purpose combat levels, and 5 General
Combat levels based on his knowledge of his opponents. As a side note, he also
has been training a team of elite agents to fight like Captain America, Black
Widow, Hawkeye, Swordsman, Spiderman, Wolverine, Tigra, and one super strong
brute who imitates Thor. They all wear black costumes based on their respective
predecessor, with skull symbols. I call them Warmaster, Widowmaker, Bowmaster,
Blademaster, Spidermaster, Beastmaster, Pridemistress, and Thundermaster.

Mad Hamish wrote:

> At 09:47 13/07/99 -0700, James Jandebeur wrote:
> >> BTW, has anyone ever tried to make Taskmaster for HERO? He is one
> >> of my favorites, but has potential problems (No Skills in a VPP). You
> >> could probably model his abilities with OCV and DCV bonuses with a minor
> >> limitation, buying them up to permanence, and use the VPP for any Powers
> >> that are considered "Skills."
>
> Why would Taskmaster have a VPP?
> The only VPP part would be his equipment.
>
> What would be better expressed is combat levels (5 or 8 points) only versus
> people he has observed for x rounds - made perception test etc .
> Maybe a -1/4 point limitation or just SE.
> Maybe danger sense with the same limitation with the same limitation
>
> His already gained abilities of the people that he's studied so they would
> be base powers and attributes.
>
> ****************************************************************************
> The Politician's Slogan
> 'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
> of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
> Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
> ****************************************************************************
>
> Mad Hamish
>
> Hamish Laws
> h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au
> h_laws@tassie.net.au

Well, as I suspected, I filled the four openings in my PBEM within 12
hours of my posting the announcement. Anyone else interested may certainly
lurk if they choose to. I fill vacated positions and offer "guest-star"
playing opportunities to lurkers.

Anyway, thank you to the people who responded. For those of you who
didn't make it in, if you wish to hang around and see how things turn out,
please let me know.

At 11:59 AM 7/18/99 +1000, you wrote:
>At 09:47 13/07/99 -0700, James Jandebeur wrote:
>>> BTW, has anyone ever tried to make Taskmaster for HERO? He is one
>>> of my favorites, but has potential problems (No Skills in a VPP). You
>>> could probably model his abilities with OCV and DCV bonuses with a minor
>>> limitation, buying them up to permanence, and use the VPP for any Powers
>>> that are considered "Skills."
>
>Why would Taskmaster have a VPP?
>The only VPP part would be his equipment.
>
>What would be better expressed is combat levels (5 or 8 points) only versus
>people he has observed for x rounds - made perception test etc .
>Maybe a -1/4 point limitation or just SE.
>Maybe danger sense with the same limitation with the same limitation
>
>His already gained abilities of the people that he's studied so they would
>be base powers and attributes.
>
I should point out here, Taskmaster does not automatically know how to
counter someone's fighting style. If he did, I'd just load him up with
Find Weakness and Analyze Style. Taskmaster can learn someone's fighting
style just by watching them. Even on video tape. So basicly, all he needs
to learn a new martial art (read "series of maneuvers that cost points") is
watch someone using it. Hence, it is easiest to give him the ol' VPP:Mimic
Other People's Powers with the Lims: Only Powers a Normal Human Is Capable
Of and Only Powers He Has Seen Used.

A lot of this is up to the GM, too. I mean, I might rule that Spiderman's
Swing By is mimicable, or I might rule that it is only because of his
Spider-Strength that he doesn't dislocate his arms when doing it.

Lastly, I think Taskmaster is best suited to the role he was often used
for: behind-the-scenes badguy. Taskmaster trained goons for other badguys.
If you were going up against Captain America, Taskmaster would get a bunch
of goons and use Cap's fighting style to fight them. Eventually, the goons
learn how to fight Cap. Then, he offers these trained goons to Red Skull
(or whoever).

And, for the list, anyone said Black Widow or Kraven the Hunter or The
Human Fly?

============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.

>I guess this question is meant for Steve Long, but has the confusion
over
>money in a superhero campaign been cleared up in 5th Edition Hero
System?
>Once again, my campaign has come to the point where the rich hero
just
>wants to buy some simple gear (in this case, cell phones for the
group),
>but I tell him he has to buy everything with points, and then he asks
me
>what the point is in buying the Perk to make him rich , and I can't
really
>give him a good answer..... Thanks!

Lots of things.

Most GMs don't set up situations to use this much, so players don't,
but it can be very useful. Give the players situations which could be
trouble, but which can be bought out of. Give them a need to be in New
York when they are far away, if they don't have transportation, and
let him buy first class tickets, or a private jet. Rent cars to get
around a strange city without drawing attention. Go to fancy balls to
get close to the man the villains are after, but who won't listen to
you. Give them lawsuits, and watch the bills pile up as they defend
against them. Give them insurance problems, or a need for insurance.
Bribe people who have money already. Cause financial difficulties for
organizations that are fronts for bad guys, but you can't prove it.
Take out ads improving team image, or making a legally untouchable
enemy look bad. Buy expertise, when the heroes don't have a contact
who understands Incan sculpture, proton bombardment profiles of
advanced materials, or who can fix the Supermobile.

The player can also buy equipment, so long as it is temporary. So long
as the heroes don't abuse it, let it act as a one-game only "only
real-world equipment" VPP. Thus, he can buy cell phones, but if they
want to keep them, they have to pay for them.

I also give players a Limitation on a great deal of equipment, based
upon how easily it is purchased and used without special permits. So,
if your players want a normal car, let them buy it, but give it a -1
Limitation _if_ it can be bought at the local dealership. The player
with wealth could even have a VPP with this Limitation, and buy
whatever special equipment he wants, with the SFX "I just buy it from
SpyTech/Seattle Mercedes-Benz/Bear Arms".

I was thumbing through a friend's copy of Enemies of San Angelo and noticed
that at least a few of the characters were built with ECs that contained
slots that were linked to each other. One character in particular had every
slot in the EC linked to the first. Is this kosher?

If you linked powers, then put them in an EC, I always thought that they had
to share the same slot.

Now I often get around The Great Linked Debate by never using that
Limitation. Instead I buy a Limitation either "Must use with X" or "May only
use with X" and generally give it a -1/2. But even then I don't know how I'd
feel about limiting the powers that way _and_ putting them in an EC. Of
course, buying the single power "naked" and linking the whole EC to it seems
kind of cheap too. (But then the EC itself is starting to seem cheap to me
now--what character _shouldn't_ have an EC?)

A while ago it came up on this list that Only In Hero ID should only be used
for characters like Captain Marvell whose IDs are substantially different.
(I think the book also uses Thor's hammer as an example of OIHID instead of
a focus because he never loses it.) I've always bought energy projectors and
form-changing bricks with OIHID powers (like the Human Torch or Colossus),
but those earlier posts suggested that perhaps all their "hero form" powers
should be linked to a base power (Torch's force field or Colossus's density
increase or armor). Did I understand this correctly? It seems like it might
be cheaper to link all your powers to one "defining" power than to just buy
OIHID powers. (Although I did convert a character of mine, and the totals
were only a few points different between the two methods.)

I was wondering, has anyone ever statted-up the Scarlet Witch from Marvel?
I'm working on a probability altering character and could use some help with
the game mechanics. Aside from giving him ten dice of luck (LOL), I'm really
having a hard time. Any suggestions?

<< I was wondering, has anyone ever statted-up the Scarlet Witch from Marvel?

I'm working on a probability altering character and could use some help with
the game mechanics. Aside from giving him ten dice of luck (LOL), I'm
really
having a hard time. Any suggestions?
>>

Remember the first principle of Champions: Look at the power, not the
special effect. What does the Scarlet Witch do BY manipulating probability?

In her case, it is HIGHLY variable. I have seen her do just about antything,
so we set up a VPP, with a few minor limitations on the control costs for
gestures and incantations. Toss in a (maybe) -1/4 limitation, must be
possible, to occur in the given situation. (of course possible is up to the
GM to define. ). Add a few dice of luck, for those unforseen events, and
you have the character.

I was wondering, has anyone ever statted-up the Scarlet Witch from Marvel?
I'm working on a probability altering character and could use some help with
the game mechanics. Aside from giving him ten dice of luck (LOL), I'm really
having a hard time. Any suggestions?

* Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu> on Sun, 18 Jul 1999
| I was thumbing through a friend's copy of Enemies of San Angelo and noticed
| that at least a few of the characters were built with ECs that contained
| slots that were linked to each other. One character in particular had every
| slot in the EC linked to the first. Is this kosher?

No, it is not. This is specifically prohibited in the BBB. Powers within
an EC that are linked *MUST* be in the same EC slot. While it is not
stated, I would allow a power entirely outside the EC to be linked to a
power in the EC (same as Multipower), but that is different.

[...]
| Now I often get around The Great Linked Debate by never using that
| Limitation. Instead I buy a Limitation either "Must use with X" or "May only
| use with X" and generally give it a -1/2. [...]

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck....
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>I was thumbing through a friend's copy of Enemies of San Angelo and noticed
>that at least a few of the characters were built with ECs that contained
>slots that were linked to each other. One character in particular had every
>slot in the EC linked to the first. Is this kosher?

This is most certainly _not_ kosher, and in my opinion, is fairly abusive!!
I say "fairly" because it would depend on a specific example for how abusive
it is. It is disapointing to hear that this was done in "Enemies of San
Angelo."

To quote the BBB: "Powers in different slots of an Elemental Control cannot
be linked to go off together. Any Powers that are linked must be bought in
a single slot."

On the other hand, linking a power outside the EC to a slot in the EC should
be okay.

> (But then the EC itself is starting to seem cheap to me
> now--what character _shouldn't_ have an EC?)

Not to start one of the Power Framework debates again, :-) but EC can be the
most efficient one there is. The more powers you put in it, the better off
you are, since you can use many of them at once (outside of attacks). There
are no inharent limitations in EC like there are in MP or VPP, other than
special effect and the fact that you can't link slots. I do not, and will
not, accept the argument which says that the limitation on EC is that it
costs more than MP or VPP!!! You have to compare each Power Framework
against the case where you have no framework, before you compare them to
each other.

Many people have eliminated EC from their games. I feel, however, that if
your going to have Power Frameworks in the first place, then almost every
character should have one so as not to be disadvantaged in power
levels/abilities with other characters. MP and VPP do not work for
everyone, so all that is left is EC. I find that smaller EC's (as in three
or four powers) work out quite well. It's when you see a bunch of powers
tossed into a larger EC that it starts getting abusive.

That's not to say that other frameworks are not abusive. I find "Swiss army
knife" MP's to be highly abusive. As far as pure points saving, you just
can't beat a MP full of ultra slots.

My House Rules Section:

For EC: I have adapted rules from one of the Hero Almanacs or Adventure club
magazines, where if an EC slot Drained, Suppressed or whatever, and far
enough that it has used all the points that the slot cost, it is now
affecting the base EC cost. As such, it would then be reducing the power
levels of _every_ slot in the MP. Thus, there is now an inherent limitation
for EC, though one that does not come into play too often.

For MP: I tend to push for MP's to have a common special affect, like EC.
In other words, one must have a reason to use an MP, where typically the
slots are linked (not the Linked Limitation) together by special effect. My
favorite example would be where a flame using Energy Projector takes an MP
Flame Blast, then uses the slots to define all the different ways that
character can use the Flame Blast (a straight EB, an AE, Change Environment,
maybe flight, and things like this).

>My House Rules Section:
>
>For EC: I have adapted rules from one of the Hero Almanacs or Adventure
club
>magazines, where if an EC slot Drained, Suppressed or whatever, and far
>enough that it has used all the points that the slot cost, it is now
>affecting the base EC cost. As such, it would then be reducing the power
>levels of _every_ slot in the MP. Thus, there is now an inherent
limitation
>for EC, though one that does not come into play too often.

Oops! That should read "As such, it would then be reducing the power
>levels of _every_ slot in the EC."

>I was thumbing through a friend's copy of Enemies of San Angelo and noticed
>that at least a few of the characters were built with ECs that contained
>slots that were linked to each other. One character in particular had every
>slot in the EC linked to the first. Is this kosher?

My copy of the BBB states that, "Powers in different slots of an Elemental
Control cannot be linked to go off together." That seems pretty definitive.
Sounds like a case of an author forgetting a rule (gasp!), or using a
house rule in a published supplement.

>kind of cheap too. (But then the EC itself is starting to seem cheap to me
>now--what character _shouldn't_ have an EC?)

Actually, the way I see it, the only characters with an excuse for being
without an EC are those who have a Multipower, a VPP, or all powers that
can't be put into frameworks. Assuming, of course, that the GM allows EC's.
After all, the stated purpose of an EC is to reward players with good,
tight character concepts.

At 09:45 AM 7/18/1999 -0400, Michael Sprague wrote:
>>I was thumbing through a friend's copy of Enemies of San Angelo and noticed
>>that at least a few of the characters were built with ECs that contained
>>slots that were linked to each other. One character in particular had every
>>slot in the EC linked to the first. Is this kosher?
>
>This is most certainly _not_ kosher, and in my opinion, is fairly abusive!!
>I say "fairly" because it would depend on a specific example for how abusive
>it is. It is disapointing to hear that this was done in "Enemies of San
>Angelo."

Well, they're /villains/, after all. Not playing by the rules is kind of a
defining characteristic of bad guys... :)

> From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
>
> A while ago it came up on this list that Only In Hero ID should only be used
> for characters like Captain Marvell whose IDs are substantially different.

I didn't have that conclusion from the discussion.

> (I think the book also uses Thor's hammer as an example of OIHID instead of
> a focus because he never loses it.) I've always bought energy projectors and
> form-changing bricks with OIHID powers (like the Human Torch or Colossus),
> but those earlier posts suggested that perhaps all their "hero form" powers
> should be linked to a base power (Torch's force field or Colossus's density
> increase or armor). Did I understand this correctly? It seems like it might
> be cheaper to link all your powers to one "defining" power than to just buy
> OIHID powers. (Although I did convert a character of mine, and the totals
> were only a few points different between the two methods.)
>
> What are opinions on this?
>

Sounds kind of abusive to me.

> Have I been building my characters weird all this time?
>
Build your characters any way you want, if it's OK with the GM and the other
players.

> Ok, this may be a dumb question but what does BBB stand for. I
>assume you mean the Hero System Rulesbook but cannot figure out what BBB
>means.
>

BBB = "Big Blue Book", or the Champions 4th ed. Rules. This abbreviation is
sometimes used interchangeably with HSR (Hero System Rules), and sometimes
to differentiate between the two. Confusing, innit?

> | Now I often get around The Great Linked Debate by never using that
> | Limitation. Instead I buy a Limitation either "Must use
> with X" or "May only
> | use with X" and generally give it a -1/2. [...]

and Stainless Steel Rat wrote:

> If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck....

Exactly. ;)

But it seems to me that most of the Debate is over whether the power _must_
be used or _may only_ be used, so I just specify which I mean for each
power. It seems to clear it up. (Of course, the question of how many powers
a character can use as an "attack" still exists.)

>Just 'cus I've been a little out of it for the last couple of weeks, When's
>5th edition supposted to be out?
>

When we're close to sending the 5th Edition Hero System book off to the=20
printer, we'll announce a ship date. We've got the manuscript in hand and=20
we're editing it now. We want to make sure that we've done as good a job as=20
we can on ever aspect of the book, so we're not rushing it.

> > From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
> >
> > A while ago it came up on this list that Only In Hero ID
> should only be used
> > for characters like Captain Marvell whose IDs are
> substantially different.

Curt Hicks:

> I didn't have that conclusion from the discussion.

I didn't mean to suggest that was the "conclusion." I haven't seen too many
discussions here come to a neat "conclusion" like that. :)

I only meant that it seemed to me that had been suggested.

> > Have I been building my characters weird all this time?
> >
> Build your characters any way you want, if it's OK with the
> GM and the other
> players.

Of course that's true always.

I do think that there should be some standard way of doing things, if only
to know what to point out as house rules.

Again, I have always assumed that OIHID was for any character that switched
forms. I also assumed that to switch forms a character needs Instant Change.
It seemed that others were suggesting that instead of Instant Change and
OIHID a character should have a sot of "default" power that defines the form
and link the other powers to it.

I'm curious what the various points of view were. I don't remember things
being very clear.

* "Mr. Cup O. Slaw" <coleslaw1@wa.freei.net> on Sun, 18 Jul 1999
| <This is specifically prohibited in the BBB.>
| Ok, this may be a dumb question but what does BBB stand for. I
| assume you mean the Hero System Rulesbook but cannot figure out what BBB
| means.

The "Big Blue Book", meaning the hardcover fourth edition rulebook (also
the softcover version). The usage encompases CD, "Champions Deluxe", which
is the hardcover version bundled with the final version of Heromaker.
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At 06:14 PM 7/16/99 +0200, Black Bishop wrote:
>Wowa hi again folks
>
>I am unsure about... How simulate a character Like Spartan of Wildcats ?
>(IMAGE)
>I mean... no probs about the BioBlast but... when Spartan dies, another
>body is ready and his mind is immediatly trasported to the new body so he
>is live again.
>(Extra lives ?!?!??!?! noooo pleaseeeeee)So he is virtually indistructible,
>and the only way to kill him is to not allow for his mind to get the body
>(breaking the machines that make Spartan's body). I though about :
>
>Regeneration , After Death +2 ONLY after Death -1/2 2Body Rigeneration
>
>Teleport Only when dies 0 End 10 m / *X NCM (x the value that can cover
>all world)
>
>(The way to kill him is to destroy the machines)

Duplication triggered - destruction of current body- with charges?

****************************************************************************
The Politician's Slogan
'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
****************************************************************************