Though the panels haven't been tested yet, how much better would you expect the lag to be?

i'm not getting your question here, what i said it i would bet that your Vizio has less lag than both sony and samsung model TV's and you may notice more lag with a new sony or samsung TV and the samsung is more likely in my opinion to have more lag than the sony but they should be fairly close to the same in game modes based on previous year model's (2008/2009 models)

there is a chance that the Sony's may perform better this year, at least the higher end models because i've now seen some first hand evidence that at least the EX700/701 Sony models are most-likely using Sharps new X-Gen LCD panels and are not using the very Laggy S-PVA panels like Samsung does and sony has also used for the past few years and i'm sure will still continue to use in many low to mid level models due to owning 49% of the company that makes the S-PVA panels S-LCD

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How would you compare the general differences between the Samsung and Sony pictures(colors, black levels, etc.)?

Very similar between similar level models

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Do I run the risk of a panel lottery with the Sony?

No, Sony has never done a panel lottery and if you buy a specific model number Sony TV it will have the same panel in the TV as another model of that same size. they are much more consistent that Samsung and its just another sign to me of how samsung likes to cut corners esp on lower priced models.

Sony has used AUO panels in 2008/2009 model TV's but they tend to only put those in very bottom of the line sets where samsung has done that and worse in middle of the line sets like the B650's by not only putting AUO panels that are fairly good but also using CMO panels that are pretty bad in their TV's Sony never uses CMO panels

I read a statement from sony a few months ago that i wish i would have bookmarked, they said that in 2010 models they will be using only a very small percentage of AUO panels in their TV's and a decent percentage of new Sharp X-Gen panels in the upper end TV's and the majority of their TV's this year will continue to have S-PVA panels in them just like previous years but less than previous years due to the increased use of Sharp panels in top models due to the believed to be superior new X-Gen panel that sony also has a stake in its production due to a partnership on a new manufacturing plant in japan with Sharp.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag

Samsung LN52B750 (found it for $1450)
Samsung UN46B8500 (found it for $2050)
Any of the 2010 LED/LCD Samsung models

My budget is $1500 - $2100 and I'd like a set that's 46" - 55" in size. I like both the models I've listed and have done plenty of research on them so it really comes down to picture quality vs. size/price. Anyone have a vote on which of the two is the better choice?

The B8500 is hands down a better TV due to local dimming only so that means better black levels, picture quality otherwise will be fairly similar.

the real question I have is how far away to you plan to sit away from that TV normally? if its fairly close like 6-7 feet then i'd say get the 46B8500, if your more like 8-10 feet away I think the added size of the B750 is better for your viewing experience overall

never underestimate the impact that screen size gives you with any type of viewing, it can have the downside of making lower quality sources like SDTV look worse but if your going to be mostly watching HDTV channels and Blu-ray/DVD's on it then size is paramount over slight image quality improvements.

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Is there any reason to think the 2010 models will be worthwhile? I don't really care about 3D technology, and it seems like none of them use true local dimming technology anymore. The only thing I like about them is that they produce a 55" set in the LN55C650 but from what I've seen it's only 120hz (but does a lack of 240hz even matter?)

Samsung's '10 line looks pretty meh to me, many of the models look completely unchanged from '09 models and only the addition of 3D stuff to the very top of the line sets are the only improvement I've seen specs wise but as only low end C series sets are in stores right now its very hard to say what the mid to high ends may bring but i doubt much.

Sony's upper mid to top of the line sets for '10 have got me much more interested as well as Sharps upcoming TV's due to the use of the new Sharp X-Gen LCD panels I saw a Sony EX700 at Fry's today and even though it was an edge lit LED model and not a local dimmer it had a great picture and is not using an S-PVA panel, it appears to have a Sharp X-Gen panel in it and the viewing angles most notably were very good on it, Blacks also looked good but in the store lighting it was exposed to just about any LCD TV has good looking blacks, I will not pass judgment on its black levels until i see it in a more dim environment

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Lastly, will prices on the LN52B750 and UN46B8500 drop with the new sets coming out or will they just become more scarce as they've been discontinued?

Thanks in advance for any help.

They already have dropped because of the new models right now and they are not going to get any cheaper if you like one of them now is the time to buy them to get the best deal. same goes for pretty much every other brand's TV's right now

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag

I concur that is definitely a situation where a 720p or 1080p plasma would excel over any LCD TV

LCD TV's can do well with horizontal viewing angles but when you start looking at them for below or above it gets pretty bad picture wise esp with darker images

Judging by the photo you do not have any huge open windows in the room so i doubt you will have any major glare or brightness problems either so as long as your aware of Image retention and the possibility of burn in on a plasma and feel confident you will not leave static images (including black bars) on the TV for extreme amounts of time (more than 3-4 hours) i would get a plasma

Thanks, I was debating between the two, but hadn't considered an issue with an LCD having to look up at it.

So the general consensus is just get as large of a TV as possible then? I'd say my upper limit is $3500.

Thanks for the info, frito. I've never really considered Sony or Sharp due to the positive history I've had with Samsung's products, but in light of their mediocre 2010 lineup I may end up looking elsewhere. I usually sit about 8-9 feet away when I watch my tv so I'm glad to hear that the 52" would be the better choice--it saves be about $600.

Thanks for the info, frito. I've never really considered Sony or Sharp due to the positive history I've had with Samsung's products, but in light of their mediocre 2010 lineup I may end up looking elsewhere. I usually sit about 8-9 feet away when I watch my tv so I'm glad to hear that the 52" would be the better choice--it saves be about $600.

yes at 8-9 feet you will want to get a 50"+

maybe wait a little bit for the X-Gen 60" Sony and Sharp models to come out and get reviewed but you will no doubt be paying a premium for new models when they first come out so its a catch 22

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag

i'm not getting your question here, what i said it i would bet that your Vizio has less lag than both sony and samsung model TV's and you may notice more lag with a new sony or samsung TV and the samsung is more likely in my opinion to have more lag than the sony but they should be fairly close to the same in game modes based on previous year model's (2008/2009 models)

I guess I wasn't clear, but yeah I was talking about the difference in lag between the Sony and Samsung. What about the Sony 40EX500? What is the chance that it would be using the Sharp panels you were talking about?

I guess I wasn't clear, but yeah I was talking about the difference in lag between the Sony and Samsung. What about the Sony 40EX500? What is the chance that it would be using the Sharp panels you were talking about?

the EX500 is not using the Sharp panel, i've seen them in stores and they are definitely using *VA panels probably S-PVA and its going to be as laggy as a samsung

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag

WELL GUESS WHAT?....
my 10 year-old Sony 57 inch XBR rear projection TV finally crapped out.
so here in the middle of this recession I am now in the market.

I went to Best Buy today and narrowed it down to maybe two options, (based on what my eye perceived as the best picture) I do not want a plasma, I love these two sets because they are natural looking and VERY bright. Can you please give me your thoughts on these. The Sony is great and I am partial to Sony. The Samsung is really nice and I think newer technology (backlit LED-LCD) but at around $3K it's almost twice the price so not sure if it's worth it (can't compare these 2 side by side, the Samsung is in the "Magnolia Room") I am very impressed with the backlit LED-LCD sets, I have a temporary 46 inch Sharp backlit LED-LCD in my room now (bought it over the weekend just to see the hockey game) and the picture is stunning (albiet the screen is too small).

Also do you think I should wait until more of the backlit LED sets come out, the salesman told me more are coming soon maybe in a few weeks? I would love to see the newest backlit LED-LCD sets from Sony but BB says they are not out yet and don't know when they are coming in. The problem is, BB is currently offering three years financing with no interest and that's really tempting in this economy. (this deal could be off at any time). Anyway, see below; throw out some thoughts and help me decide...

The TV will be used primarily for watching HDTV (cable) with a little bit of DVD and xbox 360/HDDVDs. It will not be connected to a PC.

The room is fairly lit so I have ruled out plasma. The couches are about 8 feet away (furthest point) from where the TV will be placed. It will not be wall mounted.

The choices so far are:

Samsung UN55B7000. I love the asthetics of this TV but PQ was a little something to be desired. I saw the 8000/8500 in store and the reflections off the bezel didn't seem to bother me.

Sony KDL-52EX700/701. This TV has lots of features that intrigue me. Wifi and USB to watch movies off a HDD are a plus. Wasn't 100% thrilled about the two toned bezel bit heard that an all black model is available. Cons - had a bad experience(s) with some of Sony's electronics so that has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Samsung UN46C7000. Lots of features including 3D capable but is the smallest sized of the 3.

Ruled out: all plasmas, Vizio and LG LEDs.

Any other suggestions? I'm really leaning towards the Sony. Just waiting to see the TV in person before I make the purchase.

Sorry missed your post.

I think if i was in your shoes I would pick the Sony 52EX700, They are not using S-PVA panels but rather a much newer design made by Sharp, I'm not sure how they perform just yet in the real world when it comes to black levels because I've seen them in a store but it was too well lit to judge, its viewing angles were very good as was overall picture quality.

its really too early to tell if these new panels will have any problems and how much better they may be in other respects but overall the models your looking at are all very similar in design and performance. The B6/7/8000 models are well known for clouding and flashlighting problems though due to the S-PVA panel used in them. the new Sharp panels may or may not be better or worse in this aspect, a few people have said they saw the same problem with them on store models but they were able to remove the problem by turning down the backlight level (very commonly needs to be done on VA displays to minimize uniformity issues with dark screens as well as make the blacks look blacker)

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag

I see that I am down on the list but I thougt I would bump as to not get lost.
Thanks again for all the help

Quote:

Originally Posted by CS24

So I am looking to replace my 32 Mitsubishi CRT with built in amp!.... so its old...

I just bought a LG 32LH40 for 549 +tax because 1) I read that they have the best panel (IPS) 2) and I wanted to use it as a PC monitor for videos 3) We want to put a 52" in the family room this summer. But I have some buyers remorse (I haven't opened the box yet) and found this great thread so here goes.

1. Budget
600 would be nice because that is just what I spent and this is the secondary living space. But I could go higher

2. Seating distance
6-12 feet

3. Size/placement limitations
None really open wall

4. Uses and sources
Currently would be SD programming but after the plunge would upgrade to HD and a BR dvd player. Some light console gaming.
I bought the 32" 1080p because I would like to watch videos from my pc and maybe build a media pc to stream tv and movies and I figured 1080p would do better than 720p as a monitor but I am just guessing

5. Room lighting
One overhead light, I have a large picture window behind me and another window to the left, however I also have two huge trees blocking out the sun.

The Sony does seem to fit everything that I am looking for but the edge lit LEDs do sort of scare me in terms of clouding.

I did also forget to mention that the Samsung UN46B8500 does fit in my budget but I think the size just may be too small but I am upgrading from a 37" LCD so.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by frito

Sorry missed your post.

I think if i was in your shoes I would pick the Sony 52EX700, They are not using S-PVA panels but rather a much newer design made by Sharp, I'm not sure how they perform just yet in the real world when it comes to black levels because I've seen them in a store but it was too well lit to judge, its viewing angles were very good as was overall picture quality.

its really too early to tell if these new panels will have any problems and how much better they may be in other respects but overall the models your looking at are all very similar in design and performance. The B6/7/8000 models are well known for clouding and flashlighting problems though due to the S-PVA panel used in them. the new Sharp panels may or may not be better or worse in this aspect, a few people have said they saw the same problem with them on store models but they were able to remove the problem by turning down the backlight level (very commonly needs to be done on VA displays to minimize uniformity issues with dark screens as well as make the blacks look blacker)

Frito I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up with the LN52B750, but I've recently been looking at the UN55B6000. It's slightly larger, thinner, better contrast ratio, and about the same price as the B750 where I've looked. However it's edge-lit and I've gone through the extensive threads here about clouding and flashlighting that Samsung/firmware updates may or may not fix.

I recently set up an HTPC and am looking into buying an HDTV. I would like to spend somewhere between 600 - 800 bucks.

I will be sitting about 6.5 ft away. The room has two small windows which don't let in that much light.

I will also be hooking up a wii too it. It is important to me that movies from my htpc play well in bluray but at the same time I don't want that much input lag either. I am not a super hardcore gamer but I do like guitar hero and such and thus rhythm games are important.

The TV will be placed on a mantel of a fireplace that is not used (and thus does not get hot).

Ok...still have some time until the second half of my tax return arrives. I had to file an amended return for an additional form that showed up...so now I have money for a new TV. I have a small 24" Samsung (T240HD) there now...and it's just way too small for the room it's in. I need something bigger.

1. Budget
I'll have about $900 total for a new TV...so $900 with taxes included. Power consumption is also a concern as I don't want to run up my electricity bill too much considering I already have plenty of computer equipment that stays on most of the time.

2. Seating distance
6-10 feet, 6 feet when lying on my couch, 10 feet from my recliner. I frequently lay down on my couch though as it's quite comfortable (actually slept there all night last night after falling asleep after dinner).

Here is a diagram I made while trying to layout my furniture before moving into my apartment last month:

Complete with estimated distances. I say estimated because when I did that diagram I didn't have exact measurements...so it turns out there's a little more room on the end table closest to the TV...where I ended up sticking my DVD rack (there's like a foot or so between the end table and the wall).

Item# 20102154 if you want to look it up. It actually has feet added to it so it's like 2-3" taller than those dimensions. I presume the load the unit can handle by itself is larger than that as that load is per shelf, which aren't built nearly as strong as the top.

The speakers from the speaker system I'm using (logitech 5.1 system, top of their speaker system line right now, Z-5500, used to be my computer speakers) take up some space on either side of the top of the TV stand...so the wider the TV...the more those will interfere. Also have other items which sit under the TV now, a Roku HD and a gigabit network switch.

4. Uses and sources
-Only have Comcast HSI so my TV is limited to what I can get over ClearQAM. Right now I get about 100 channels over that...with the locals being in HD.

-Roku HD

-PS3 - Used for Blurays and Gaming

-360 - Used for Gaming and sometimes Zune movies. Also has an HD-DVD player.

-I have a C2Q HTPC that runs XBMC, Boxee, and Media Portal on Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit. I use the HTPC as my video converter as well though, so I need to be able to use Windows 7 as Windows 7 (in other words, reading small text is important on whatever TV it displays on). I have to sit on my couch now to use the HTPC as a regular PC as I can't quite read the screen to use my Lenovo Wireless controller () from my Recliner. In XBMC I play Movies and TV shows I've digitized from my personal collection. HD content is mostly in 720p for saving space on my NAS (1080p titles are probably less than 10). It can also do both Bluray and HD-DVD (my collections of those are about equal).

I would like to get 4 HDMI ports to hook up each of these individually. Right now I have the HTPC hooked up via DVI, and the other three hooked up via HDMI through a 3 way HDMI switch. I'd like to eliminate that switch if possible.

Gaming is primarily single player games (just finished my second playthough of Heavy Rain the other night before the PS3 meltdown happened) with an occasional multiplayer game. Most of my gaming is done on my gaming PC in my computer room though.

5. Room lighting
You can see the two lights in the room on the diagram above, they provide a decent amount of light in the room. An example of the one in the corner is below:

When watching a movie though I turn off the lights.

I'm wary about getting a large TV shipped to me, so I would much rather go pick one up (I have an Explorer Sport Trac, so it's not a problem to haul it in the back). I'm located in extreme southwest Schaumburg, IL. I was considering mostly the TV's that my Sam's Club carries (store # 8148, in Streamwood, IL). I've been there a couple of times to look at them, and played with the Vizio menu systems a bit, and I do like them so far. If someone can suggest a better one that Sam's carries or someone else in the area carries, I'm up for ideas.

1080p vs. 720p...I read that I'll see more detail with 720p from the distances I'm talking about with the screen sizes in my price range (37"-42" possibly 47" for a non-LED LCD)...but that just doesn't quite make sense to me for some reason. Just want some honest opinions based on my situation though.

1. Budget: $350-400 preferably. $500 absolute maximum but this TV better be able to cook breakfast or do something else crazy.

2. Seating distance: 5-6'

3. Size/placement limitations: Looking for a 22-26" TV for the bedroom.

4. Uses and sources: I don't watch TV much so as of right now i only have standard cable programming... eww. In the near future i will be upgrading to the local HD service or one of the dish services. I also plan to connect a PS3 (primarily for BlueRay) and my computer to play iTunes and Filmous movies but not for any other computer related usage.

5. Room lighting: Currently cool white florescent but the bedroom is being lightly remodeled so the fixture will be replaced. I was thinking about switching to a soft white (warmer kelvin) CLF's or incandescents. Recommendations on this?

Complete with estimated distances. I say estimated because when I did that diagram I didn't have exact measurements...so it turns out there's a little more room on the end table closest to the TV...where I ended up sticking my DVD rack (there's like a foot or so between the end table and the wall).

The Sony does seem to fit everything that I am looking for but the edge lit LEDs do sort of scare me in terms of clouding.

I did also forget to mention that the Samsung UN46B8500 does fit in my budget but I think the size just may be too small but I am upgrading from a 37" LCD so.....

Edge LED really has nothing to do with the clouding problem

the backlight is not what causes it, its the panel used in the TV.

think of it like stuck pixels except for screen uniformity, due to the alignment of the LC's in between the glass panes of the actual LCD module if the thickness of the unit changes even the slightest amount you get excessive back light bleed through, due to the direction that the LCD's are positioned in VA type LCD's pushing onto the screen even slighty forces them to turn and prevents them from fully closing

this image made by LG Display shows the difference between VA and IPS

you can also go to a store and see this effect for yourself, put up a black screen on the TV (no input often works)

tap on it and see what happens

if you do this to an LG TV most of them will never have it happen because they largely use IPS panels except for in the bottom of the line sets.

its a trade off though because IPS cannot match VA's higher static contrast ratios and that is one of the main reasons why VA is so popular with TV's right now

the local dimming LH90 and the Vizio's that have local dimming are the only sets i know of currently available that use IPS screens and will match other VA LCD's in terms of contrast performance and you will never get clouding issues on them where as on even the local dimming B8500 people have observed the same problem the local dimming just does a good job of hiding it from you when its on

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag

Frito I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up with the LN52B750, but I've recently been looking at the UN55B6000. It's slightly larger, thinner, better contrast ratio, and about the same price as the B750 where I've looked. However it's edge-lit and I've gone through the extensive threads here about clouding and flashlighting that Samsung/firmware updates may or may not fix.

In your opinion is the UN55B6000 any better than the LN52B750?

both TV's are edge lit

the B750 is CCFL edge lit
the B6/7/8000 are LED edge lit

clouding has to do with quality of the panel installed in to the TV as well as its type and with any current sony, samsung and often other brand LCD TV's you run the risk of having the problem.

Sony and Samsung TV's of the past few years have had it worse due to the S-PVA panels being more problematic with it for some reason though.

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag

it may be but that does not change its performance either way, back or edge lit CCFL vs Edge LED results in the same thing, poor dynamic backlight control so no improvement in usable contrast unlike local dimming LED that has a usable dynamic backlight control because it can control specific small areas of the screen

so the only real difference picture wise is color range and a WG-CCFL is going to at least equal LED's and i'm pretty sure the B750 has a WG-CCFL in it but i may be wrong.

also many CCFL LCD's both TV and computer monitors are not backlit they are edge lit often at the top and bottom and sometimes at one side and the top

the Toshiba 40xv645u i owned definately was an L shaped backlight

my Panasonic 37" S1 is top edge lit

my Sony 32XBR6 was top and bottom lit

you can tell where the bulbs are placed by feeling around the edges of the screen when the TV has been on for awhile with the backlight setting turned up at least over half, CCFL's generate a good amount of heat

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag

Yeah, I thought it was too. By the way, if the panel is **** and has clouding issues or whatever, can't I get the panel replaced if I notice it within that 30 day period?

sure you could return the TV and get another one but at least a few people have gone through that before and often when i store gets a shipment all the TV's were made around the same time and you may find every single one of their models have problems if 1 does with clouding.

I've seen a handful of people on these forums go through multiple S panel Samsungs and never find one without it and on the other side there are many people on here that have bought a samsung with an S panel and it was perfectly fine or good enough to not be annoying once the backlight setting was turned down and really that is often the case with this issue, if you run a calibration disc on the TV and turn the backlight down to around half setting the problem is so minimal at that point anyone can live with it most of the time

If you're a gamer or interested in using an LCD TV as a primary monitor take a look at my thread on Input Lag

I am going to purchase one of these 3 TV's for outside under an Arbor. I searched and can't seem to find alot of info on the Panasonic or Samsung model listed below. Are both of these models just very stripped down made for Sam's/Costco only. The Vizio seems to get good reviews from some folks and not from others.

I only want to spend around $400 (720P). what I don't know about these 3 models is what will be better for multiple viewing angles (roughly 5 - 15 feet away), sound quality, etc.

Panasonic TC-32LX14
Samsung LN32B540
Vizio V032oe

I'm really leaning towards buying at Costco and I can get a 2 year full warranty from them included in the price.

Clouding? HELP!!!! So what do you guys think about the Samsung UN55B8500 vs. the UN55B8000? Went down to Best Buy tonight, and compared these two top Samsungs in the store; only it was hard because they are not side by side. Both are 240 Hz. I guess one is edge lit and the other is backlit... exterior is pretty much identical. Talk to me... they looked very close to me in PQ, they want about $600 more for the 8500, is it worth it or not?

Picture quality is very important and I play Xbox a couple hours a day, at least now with Modern Warfare 2.

Picture was calibrated and I loved it on Zenith but now I do not know where to turn. I am looking at Samsung - 55" Class / 1080p / 120Hz / LED-LCD HDTV
Model: UN55B7100 or should I look at the 2010 models.

Based on my limited knowledge, toshiba has slight edge in terms of picture quality. And even though it is not a "true" 240 Hz tv, it does have the back light scanning to produce the 240 hz effect. AFAIK, the only major problem with the zv650u has been the issue with sudden crackling and echoing sound which comes on by itself while watching smthing on HDMI input. Have heard about the LH40 having issues with banding, but dont know how bad they are compared to sony or toshiba or for that matter other lcds.

Thanks for all the advice, Akira & TravisBean.

I got an opportunity to view the Toshiba 55zv650u and the LG 55LH40 side-by-side at Fry's Electronics. One thing stood out about the Toshiba - it has a SERIOUS glare problem. The glossy screen on the Toshiba is a big deal-breaker for me. There were serious reflections of the glare from the other TVs surrounding the Toshiba, especially during the dark scenes.

The LG 55LH40 has a matte screen and it performed brilliantly during the dark scenes, with almost no glare reflection. Glare reflection is a HUGE NO-NO for me as I'll be placing the TV in a sun-drenched room with a lot of glare (and we all know that LCD TVs perform best in bright sun-lit rooms). The glossy screen on the Toshiba is a huge turn-off and the Toshiba is the better candidate for dark rooms with minimal glare.

That made the decision easy for me - I went ahead with the LG 55LH40 purchase at Fry's Electronics. It is currently on clearance for $1,199 (at the Renton, WA Fry's store).