Rizzoli: You okay? Come on, Maura, talk to me. He's a freak. He gets to everybody.

Isles: I didn't -- I did a lot of research into his background; his childhood. Maybe he's not wrong.

Rizzoli: What are you talking about?

Isles: Maybe I am a little bit like him.

Rizzoli: You are nothing like him.

Isles: I don't -- I don't know, Jane. I was a weird kid.

Rizzoli: Were you killing small animals?

Isles: [laughs] No, but I dissected a lot of frogs.

Rizzoli: That's different.

Isles: I just started to think about things that I never really thought about before.

Rizzoli: Here it comes. There are bodies buried in your basement.

Isles: I spent a lot of time alone. I was adopted, my father was a professor and my mother she -- she came from a wealthy family and was an only child. I just realized something when I was reading about Hoyt. It just never occurred to be before. There was a lot of benign neglect. It's not that they didn't love me. It's just that I didn't ask for much. I don't think I really knew how, and the less that I would ask for the less time that they have for me. They were just very, very involved in their own lives and into each other. They sent me to boarding school when I was ten. I actually think that I sent away for the brochure myself. [smiles with Jane] They were delighted. I was really lost.

Rizzoli: Come here. [takes Maura's hand] No matter what happened to you, you are nothing like that monster, okay? You're a little anti-social maybe, goofy, but that's not the same thing.

Isles: [crying] Thank you.

This was interesting, this idea of benign neglect. I think it's easy to write a character like this off as being a relatively harmless Aspie, but do negative environmental factors like this trigger autism or Asperger's? Even if she is Aspie, or even just an introvert, apparently the way she was raised has led her to become an antisocial, relatively unfeeling and unempathetic brand of humanity, which really isn't that different from her foil the serial killer.

Benign neglect is insidious. It sneaks up on you and leaves you feeling empty and confused. But not in a front of your mind perplexed way. It's more like a sense that something is missing that you can't put your finger on.

"Can benign neglect trigger sociopathic behaviors? Maybe. Or probably."I disagree. I don't think this would be triggering so much as permissive. The key word is benign, vs. malignant. Malignant neglect would indicate a hostile environment that probably would be triggering. Benign means it's most likely a generally safe but lonely environment. This is more how I felt growing up.

Can neglecting your child ever really be benign? Just because a parent isn’t proactively harming their child doesn’t mean they aren’t harming their child.

I got the premium blend myself. My mom smothered me with neurotically tinged attention sometimes, while my dad neglected me for the most part. Till it was clobbering time, that is. Then I had his full attention.

No he's just playing a role, but is a little rough around the edges. He learned how to be the bad cop, but he doesn't when to switch back into the good cop. Like with Eden. He was going somewhere, but totally lost sight. I think Eden and Medusa have something they want to get off their chest, but when you have someone making a fool of himself in front of them it is not going to happen. He got her to the point where she was going to say something insightful about herself that I wanted to hear and then he started making far fetched accusations about her personality that were way off which just lowered her respect for him. Basically he stole other peoples observations to get in the door and became himself again to close it right back in his own face. After that it was just him shitting all over himself with accusing her of deleting comments to hide who she is. Ironic coming from someone who deleted his entire blog and deleted his own comments when he first came here because he embarrased himself so many times.

Your 'insight' is borrowed Not Able and you only have a pinky on it so I don't know why you chose use aggressive tactics when you did. You are trying to make a show out of it not trying to get to the truth. You can't just use challenges, insults, and pissing contests on everyone even if it is the most pleasing to the crowd. If your goal is the same as mine as far as truth goes than you will have to learn how to use more than one tactic to understand how people work.

I connected the pieces and discovered my ex-boyfriend is a sociopath. (to avoid a lengthy message, assume it's true.) He ended it two weeks ago, has a new girlfriend, but still contacts me. I was clingy during the second half of the 18mth relationship because I fell into the trap of thinking more emotion= more empathy. But now I know better so can act accordingly... and more naturally.

We're on-off long distance, but he agreed to have a webcam appointment this weekend. We usually communicate through text. He doesn't think that I know he's a sociopath. At this point, I would like to 1. get him to admit it so he can let up on the now-transparent lies a bit (for convenience), and 2. have him provide me a bit of info: most importantly to be honest about his cheating. He obviously did it throughout the entire relationship (I mistakenly trusted him), but I want to know the number of women involved (for health reasons) and get myself checked out. Also, I don't know how to 3. keep him from diverting the topic, because he will try to do so this entire conversation.

I just want to get the facts, but he has no reason to offer them truthfully; I'm at a dead-end. I'm horrible at getting him to talk, and I'm still a victim to him; he gets aggressive when I act differently from his expectations. Still, I would like to keep mutual relations. I understand the implications of such.

How would you recommend I go about acquiring this information? ...Especially #1, because I doubt he will give me what I'm looking for even if I accept him for who he is.

I'd appreciate any advice, and I hope this makes sense and doesn't sound too unusual.

"Asperger's and psychopathy result from different two different abnormalities of the corpus callosum, but they both still create similar cognitive traits for that reason and I often wonder how easily they can be confused together by psychs. And the lists of female Aspergers traits in your link, certainly suggest so IMO. For example, can be very chameleon-like, especially before diagnosis? And they may also give the impression of being skilled but it is a performance? Doesn't that suggest a misdiagnosis to you, based upon the observers assumption that any non-criminal with the traits that are shared by aspies and 'paths must by definition be an aspie?

Well unless this list is based on observations of female 'paths who have been mistaken for aspies, its not impossible that I have Asperger's Syndrome neuroanatomically and then my behaviour was modified by my enviroment. But don't read into my writing style, because I use this one here on purpose. On my blogs, other forums etc I use different writing styles depending on whatever kind of audience I'm aiming for.

How many people are actually diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome or as psychopaths based on their brain structure and not just by fallible and often questionable inferences from their behaviours?"

A reference to this web page http://www.help4aspergers.com/pb/wp_a58d4f6a/wp_a58d4f6a.html

I just want to get the facts, but he has no reason to offer them truthfully; I'm at a dead-end. I'm horrible at getting him to talk, and I'm still a victim to him; he gets aggressive when I act differently from his expectations. Still, I would like to keep mutual relations. I understand the implications of such.

If he is a sociopath he is not going to reveal his secrets to you. Especially since you are nothing to him. Why would he tell you anything? Unless you have leverage over him or you are valuable to him he will not reveal anything about himself at all no matter what you do. I have carried lies in the face of the truth because the truth wasn't beneficial for me.Why do you care what he is anyway. It doesn't matter. You don't even know who you are, and that is fundamental when it comes to understanding others.

UKan, aren't psychopaths notorious braggarts? I heard numerous times that psychopaths boast more about their crimes than an average criminal and if in prison, they are more prone to telling another inmate about their crimes.

So slow today. UKan is so very interested in Medusa-and respects her, obviously. If UKan knows how to play the game, why doesn't he simply get medusa to reveal insight, instead of leaving it all to TNP

Narcissists like to brag and boast. Sociopaths like to taunt and mislead.

Narcissists hide who they are because they feel inferior. Sociopaths hide who they are because they are deviant and their behaviour is not acceptable.

You look behind a narcissists lies you will find a insecure person who wasn't what they said they were. You look behind a sociopaths lies you might a hidden family, unfaithfulness, or dead bodies.

A narcissist is trying to prove something to everyone. A sociopath is bored.

In interrogating subjects police usually target the subjects empathy using the damage they have done to their victim to make them feel remorse and come clean. With sociopaths they use a whole different approach. They try to relate with them that they are on the inside scoop and know the game they are playing.

Police investigator Stan Walter says that the psychopath is actually the most difficult subject to interview. His method is as follows:

The interview should be based on a non-emotional format with the interviewer presenting the appearance that he or she already possesses all the known facts of the case.The dialogue with the psychopath should center on the following:

1. facts and specific examples of evidence and information;

2. that there are those who may in fact be impressed with the subject’s genuine individuality and independence;

3. that others around them are in fact weak and lack the fortitude to experience the fulfillment of life.

Threats of punishment are of no use.

One interesting point however is that it would appear that the more these subjects are allowed to talk and even pontificate or sound off, the stronger and more resistant they become. It will be imperative that the interviewer maintain focus and keep the subject on topic during the interview. Admission or confessions occur because the subject delights in his or her behavior, the evidence of how everyone is shocked yet awed by their audacity and, ultimately, that they feel in some way the admission or confession serves some other form of their ego-fulfilling needs.

That being said the ratio versus a normal criminal on confessions is low. The ratio for convictions is also low. Sociopaths are the most likely to commit offenses, but also the most likely of getting away with it or obtaining a early release by charming the prison officials that they are 'cured'.

"If we wanted to read Psychforums, we'd be on Psychforums. FUCK. OFF."

I'd just reply to say "you fuck off" but I cannot see what fun it is, nor what advantage it would bring. Its a shame the comments people post in reply to the intelligent content on this blog, are mostly 'anonymous' posting shit like this. Save up and buy an XBox 360, and go on XBox Live. People like you will love it if you can afford one.

I'm thinking the same as bluebird. If ukan can do better job of going after medusa and eden, the why don't he go after them. If he knows what they're hiding and knows how to get them to talk, we don't he try to get them?

You just said it: I respect her. TNP has the goal of dragging out some deep dark truth that he can see and she doesn't know about so he can torment her. In reality she knows about herself so there is no point. She's in the 'doing something about it' phase (or lack there of) not the 'What the fuck is wrong with me' phase. That's the phase you are in Bluebird. I don't attack everyone. I have a pattern.

You talk about a game blubird you know nothing about. You are just a pawn being used today and being thrown in the rubbish bin the minute someone more secure comes along. You learn about yourself through relationships. You try to understand people, but instead of using it as something to help you survive you use it to absolve people from being who they are. You are a rational person with silly conclusions. Eventually your rational thinking and obsessive personality will lead you to the truth, but not the truth about him. The truth about yourself.

You don't love him you love the way he makes you feel and you don't know how to create that feeling yourself so you can't let him go. You are trying to find out who he is and how he works. You are chasing fucking smoke because he is nothing but a vapor that changes from one personality to the next and the bits of him that are real are scattered throughout them. Do you think you will fit it all together when you can't even fit yourself together? How can you? Layer after layer of deciet and in actuallity you won't find what you are looking for until you know how it is that he keeps you dangling like a little poppet in a nuce where you will accept anything just to get back that way that he makes you feel.

TNP failed with me the moment he started. The methods he uses will never work on me.

I have a nasty rebellious streak, and won't budge an inch once I know what you're up to, just to spite you.

I work a different angle than Medusa. I don't do cold, and mysterious. Anyone who's ever been in my life, believes they know me well, because I'm so "open", about myself.

Only one person has ever called me out on my angle, and she didn't even know it. My foster mother. She says I'm the most mysterious person she knows... while everyone else thinks I'm an open book.

TNP was way off the mark about me... perhaps on purpose? But it wouldn't have made any difference what angle he tried... it would have gone nowhere. You have to be very sly with me, you can't just charge at me like a bull.

That 'Lycan' character was doing a better job at getting somewhere with me. And what do ya know... he's hasn't come back since the day TNP started in on me.

Yeah Eden, we people try charging me it doesn't work either. Sometimes it can be kinda fun though to see them get all worked up in frustration. That's the reason my husband can't get under my skin...he makes these attempts to charge me that I find ridiculous at times. But narcs suck at being slick.

No. They are really just that insecure. Narcissists have no self esteem so they puff themselves up to display how great they wish they were. They lash back when they feel they have been discovered as a desperate attempt to scare off people from figuring out the truth.

@Eden--In my experience, people that seem very open about themselves are sometimes hiding some really sinister personality traits. " Look at me I'm transparent because I have nothing to hide." I very cautious when approached with this personality type. But, the internet changes this dynamic completely. You can be totally honest about who you are because there are no negative consequences, or you can totally lie about who you are because it allows you to live vicariously through a fantasy persona. TNP or UKan trying to reveal people's secrets or true personalities is completely futile, esp. on this site.@Medusa--What are you withdrawing from? I'm an opiate addict, so I'm just curious.

I enjoy disappointing certain types of people. The truth is, I would just love it if someone could guess at what core I hide... But if I don't like you... or don't think you deserve it... I will withhold, for the pure enjoyment of not giving you what you want.

I've gotten the shit beat out of me many times in my youth, for that reason.

Eden, what do you mean by at what core you hide? do you think you're special? at the end of the day, you are still human. there is nothing mysterious about you what so ever. at most you have a mean streak, and strive to be "different". the most i got from your personality is that you are slutty and proud of it. i don't know why TNP would spend time analyzing you. there is nothing there. Now Medusa perhaps? she's strong, possibly Borderline,Bipolar. there are different layers to her and Haven.

@sweetcheeks-- I'm an atheist, you on the other hand must have some kind of grudge against Judeo-Christianity. You hate to mention the bible, but then you quote it. Strange. How old are you? Intellectually, I mean.

Atheism is my passion and last night's discussion brought that verse to mind. I don't hate quoting from it literally, but normally I am arguing against the teaching so it is more ironic to me than it is anything else. There are universal truths that can be found in most religious texts and I recognize that.

UKan, you are correct. It's like I'm stuck on flypaper. I understand that I am in love with the feeling he gives me, it's like a drug. That is why I am so persistent in trying to understand what is within me that is so vulnerable. I don't get that feeling from him much anymore, but I guess you could say I'm still chasing the high. I'm getting closer to detaching myself from him, but now there is this emptiness inside of me that I'm just now realizing was there all along.

I enjoyed last night. Medusa called it though, I didn't really give a shit about her or her problems. I was just on a warpath, as she put it. I really don't think you're an enigma though. Just like Eden said, and what I hinted, even if I did figure out the truth you probably wouldn't give me the satisfaction.

You damn tease.

I am interested in Bluebird though. Showing her pictures alone showed a lot. Maybe not a thousand words, but enough.

I should get a new email, though. Maybe someday soon. I'd like to take an extended Staycation in the near future to recharge my batteries, and there's a few people to catch up with. Two moves in two cities in two months has thrown me out of whack, and all the fucking commuting hasn't helped either. At least it's kept me too busy to start going off the deep end. That usually gets really bad when I have nothing interesting to do, or a lack of drama/chaos to keep me occupied.

It's complicated, and long winded, and hell, it just sounds crazy, because an insane person (not including me) had to do with it. Long story short without the gory, juicy details, I moved to a different city for my own business, then realized I had to keep my old job for now, and now I'm working two fronts in two cities with not much rest in-between. Instead of keeping one place, I now have two, one that's to myself, and the other that's a room to rent. Doing to weekend hotel thing just was not panning out.

I did break up with her, I think a day or two after I mentioned it here. We had a lot of fun for our last night out, and it was a mutual thing. She started crying when I was leaving. I'm not sure what the tears were for, exactly. Loss? Sadness? Missing me? Anger? God, these things perplex me so much sometimes. I wasn't in love with her, and even though she liked me, she was too fucked up in the head to ever let her guard down in front of me.

Usually when I get done with a relationship, I usually either fondly remember them, or laugh at the shenanigans, but she was different. She helped me in an invaluable way. Well, at least helped me a lot. Nothing I wouldn't have been able to do without her, but probably never would have bothered to do on my own volition.

"You are very observant Anon. It's too bad you take cover as you do. I would love to know this person, who has me all figured out."

Eden, i don't take cover. i'm not wound up in internet names. and you sound sad that i have you all figured out. you sound like you want me to tell you that you have depth, mystery, layers, but you don't. what you see is what you get. you come here for light hearted conversations, not because you're some big, bad, wolf who needs an outlet from her inner demons. As for Medusa, well, she's aware of what's wrong with her but chooses to walk on the path of being a good person, although at times, that side of her comes out.

Also, Eden, I did find it pretty funny that Lycan disappeared the day I threatened him. I don't even feel like he's still here. If he is, he's changed his diction pretty dramatically, as well as his attitude, whoever happens to be that persona's puppet master.

The timing and name of coinciding with his appearance was really strange, as well as his 'voice'. It happened shortly after I first hinted at what my main issue was here, and someone made a crack about a werewolf. I'm pretty sure that's what Lycan means, or something close.

It tripped me out when he first showed up because the diction was so similar, most of the thought trains and opinions, yet something distinct enough to differentiate him. There was this extremely cocksure youth-like arrogance to him though that I couldn't shake. Not true grandiosity, more just, acne asshattery.

I couldn't say what it was because she's hard to read. Really hard to read. Probably the most guarded person I've ever dated. She had a pretty fucked up childhood, with not one but two NPD parents. She ended up getting a severe anxiety disorder and is usually aloof to most of what is going on, her sister is chronically depressed and morbidly obese, and her brother is a devious heartless jackass, probably the token sociopath sibling in a Narcissist household.

She helped me overcome misanthropy through the removal of ignorance. She's an anthropologist, and she taught me a lot about why humans do what they do, and how remarkably similar we are to other primates and other animals. Basically, I stopped looking at people as people, and now look at them like animals, and understand that a bulk of their actions aren't dictated by complex emotions, more instinct and survival than anything else. And that I'm not excluded from this, either. If anything, I exemplify it.

It's actually been a huge boon for me, and I wish I knew some if this shit when I was still a kid. It would have helped a lot. I'm totally paraphrasing what I learned, but that's the main part.

Narcissists like to brag and boast. Sociopaths like to taunt and mislead.

Narcissists hide who they are because they feel inferior. Sociopaths hide who they are because they are deviant and their behaviour is not acceptable.

You look behind a narcissists lies you will find a insecure person who wasn't what they said they were. You look behind a sociopaths lies you might a hidden family, unfaithfulness, or dead bodies.

A narcissist is trying to prove something to everyone. A sociopath is bored.

In interrogating subjects police usually target the subjects empathy using the damage they have done to their victim to make them feel remorse and come clean. With sociopaths they use a whole different approach. They try to relate with them that they are on the inside scoop and know the game they are playing.

Police investigator Stan Walter says that the psychopath is actually the most difficult subject to interview. His method is as follows:

The interview should be based on a non-emotional format with the interviewer presenting the appearance that he or she already possesses all the known facts of the case.The dialogue with the psychopath should center on the following:

1. facts and specific examples of evidence and information;

2. that there are those who may in fact be impressed with the subject’s genuine individuality and independence;

3. that others around them are in fact weak and lack the fortitude to experience the fulfillment of life.

Threats of punishment are of no use.

One interesting point however is that it would appear that the more these subjects are allowed to talk and even pontificate or sound off, the stronger and more resistant they become. It will be imperative that the interviewer maintain focus and keep the subject on topic during the interview. Admission or confessions occur because the subject delights in his or her behavior, the evidence of how everyone is shocked yet awed by their audacity and, ultimately, that they feel in some way the admission or confession serves some other form of their ego-fulfilling needs.

This is absolutely spot on for my ex. Both a narcissist and a sociopath. Wow. To boot, he had ticks. Leave it to me to find the most bizarre characters.

What the fuck does it say about me that I've been out with such strangeness. I've been out with a guy with tourettes, too.-And before any of you fags make fun of him, he was brilliant just "out there"

Hans Asperger, the psychiatrist who gave name to the high functioning form of autism we know as Asperger Syndrome (it had no actual name at the time), called it "Psychopathic Autism" - or maybe it was "Autistic Psychopathy".

I've been trying to understand what autism is, but so far the closest I've come is that being autistic means something like living inside your mind and being unable to communicate and interact with the world around you.

I hypothesized that Aspergers was like the introvert and (usually) benign opposite equivalent to psychopathy, and I've even had friends help me ask questions in forums for aspies, but they apparently find the thought offensive, and that blocks for an open debate about the true nature of it all.

I've found a few things that we share with aspies: A certain tendency towards a more limited range of emotions. But where we always lack the ability to feel remorse, and often also empathy, aspies only partially lack empathy, but do not lack remorse at all (generally speaking, anyway).

I'll not go into further detail here (I'll publish an article about this topic soon).

It's interesting that you have noticed some commonalities too, as have others, and the AsPD sociopath community in general does seem very focused on the topic - if in the typical primitive degrading way (which is understandable giving their emotional need to elevate their self esteem).

For me I'd say it was the opposite of neglect. I could hardly move without an adult trying to control and limit me. But that wasn't the main factor in creating my identity. I am heavy on Factor 1. traits as well as Factor 2. traits, and where the latter are concerned I think they came about because of a number of things.

The over controlling environment with my step family played a role, but so did the fact that the whole community knew I was an orphan, so I was kind of an outsider the first several years. However, I was different from the other kids, very aggressive and disobedient, etc.

This kind of background seems to be not uncommon among psychopaths with an adoptive background. Apparently, judging from some of the other comments, it isn't uncommon for others as well.

Basically, I stopped looking at people as people, and now look at them like animals, and understand that a bulk of their actions aren't dictated by complex emotions, more instinct and survival than anything else. And that I'm not excluded from this, either. If anything, I exemplify it.

Well said.

It is not being animal or not being animal that makes the difference, it is awareness.

You can learn a lot from watching puppy training (no kidding either). ;)

Zhawq said... Hans Asperger, the psychiatrist who gave name to the high functioning form of autism we know as Asperger Syndrome (it had no actual name at the time), called it "Psychopathic Autism" - or maybe it was "Autistic Psychopathy".

In Germany, Psychopathy is another term for disorder.If you are interested in aspergers, have a look at malice and aspergers syndrome.http://www.autismuk.com/?page_id=262

Um, aspergers and autism isnt sociopathy, I know people with it and theyre nowhere near sociopathic.... (Some can be sociopaths of course but not because of autism).

This post was extremely ignorant >.> Seriously. The only "empathy" they really lack is nonverbal info stuff. have the ability to care LOTS. In fact, some are raelly sensitive to distressing things ( to do with treatment of humans or animals).

And you are born with autism.. Its a completely different neurotype.. Their very neurons are different, even.

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Of course, my default is still to intuitively analyze every outcome and situation and achieve the best result, but it's more interesting to let people remain a variable and go in their own direction, rather than nudging them in the direction I prefer. Interacting with people WITHOUT trying to control them is a new paradigm for me.