topic Re: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better) in Freelancershttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89800#M41014
<P>I am very disheartened by this prospect. 99% of my jobs are one offs. I don't work in a field that requires an eventual 10k to be paid by a single client. Most of my jobs pay 100 bucks or less. I suspect the same is true of more freelancers than not. As was mentioned by another poster, the fact that a potential client can't even find me, regardless of the fact that I am "top rated" and have a 5 star average, and that I can't rely on getting notifications or messages, already makes it harder for me to maintain a pipeline of jobs. Taking away almost double of what I used to pay in fees, combined with the atmosphere of paranoia that has been allowed to foster with account suspensions and financial activities being limited for so many people, I am finding it harder to justify seeking work on here. Even if I did have a client paying me a large enough sum over time for me to meet the amount needed to only have to pay the 10% or even 7.5%, I would be terrified to have that much sitting in my Upwork account for fear that it would be held up or worse. I honestly don't see how this would benefit anyone other than Upwork and a small proportion of freelancers. Even raising my rates to compensate doesn't help me get jobs, as a client's budget is what it is. They'll just find a freelancer that is willing to work for what they will pay.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 01:08:27 GMTsvenimp2015-06-26T01:08:27ZSurvey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89655#M40911
<P>I just took a survey after receiving an email with the title "Help us make Upwork Better". The topic of the survey is a new fee structure -- 18% instead of 10% for the first $500 earned from a client, then 10% for the next $9500 earned, and finally 7.5% after that. If anyone else has taken the survey, I'd like to hear your thoughts. For me, this will force me to raise my hourly rate, and if I have less success landing new clients as a result then I will have to seek out clients elsewhere.</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:07:03 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89655#M40911yitwail2015-06-25T19:07:03ZRe: Survey (Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89661#M40912
<P>This would be a move that would force most writers, translators, editors et al to close their accounts. I certainly had to close mine on a smaller site in UK because of&nbsp;a&nbsp;percentage&nbsp;hike.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>And&nbsp;it would encourage farming and pyramid structures within the company.</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:44:55 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89661#M40912colettelewis2015-06-25T18:44:55ZRe: Survey (Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89664#M40914
<P>I haven't seen the survey yet. But it sounds like a really bad move.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>In this context it seems even more ridiculous&nbsp;that being top rated is apparently such a big deal&nbsp;nowadays - even tough you "earn"&nbsp;that dubious status after only making&nbsp;$1000 over the course of 12 months...</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:50:19 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89664#M40914elastella2015-06-25T18:50:19ZRe: Survey (Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89666#M40916
<P>Ouch. 18% is quite a hike. Should be 10% for under 500 and 7.5 for something over. I'd like to see some data on the number of $9500+ jobs there are vs something like $1000.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Was it per milestone or per project? Because I have some customers who want to try me out and then we just add milestones to the job. &nbsp;These often go over $500.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>It could actually squeeze out farmers though.</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:51:01 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89666#M40916lysis102015-06-25T18:51:01ZRe: Survey (Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89667#M40917
<P>Jennifer,</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>It's not per milestone or project, it's per client regardless of how many contracts. So it's 18% of the first $500 earned from a new client. Basically, out of the first $500 Upwork takes $90, leaving the freelancer $410.</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:57:07 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89667#M40917yitwail2015-06-25T18:57:07ZRe: Survey (Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89668#M40918
<P>I too got the survey email and do not like it.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>This is too much of an increase/hike.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Dhanushka</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:02:45 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89668#M40918dhanushkav2015-06-25T19:02:45ZRe: Survey (Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89669#M40919
<P>Aside from questions about the fee itself, I can't work out what this is <EM>for. </EM>What would it achieve?</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:03:16 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89669#M40919johntatlock2015-06-25T19:03:16ZRe: Survey (Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89670#M40920
<P>So they REALLY want us to have long-term&nbsp;contracts only. Wait, they actually don't as that would mean they earn less.&nbsp;</P><P>I wonder what the average contract value (per client) is on Upwork. It must be way below $500 - otherwise this doesn't make any sense from their perspective.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Setu? I think one of your nice graphs is in order.</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:04:06 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89670#M40920elastella2015-06-25T19:04:06ZRe: Survey (Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89672#M40921
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@John T wrote:<BR /><P>Aside from questions about the fee itself, I can't work out what this is <EM>for. </EM>What would it achieve?</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>For all the talk about increasing Upwork's market tenfold [!] in a few years, what its investors are demanding&nbsp;is profitability. My guess is this is a strategy to get there. It may also reflect a likely enormous amount of attrition (one- or zero-hit wonders) among providers and clients, so that Upwork feels the need to "get while the gettin's good."</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Speculatively yours,</P><P>Michael</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:08:50 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89672#M40921researchediting2015-06-25T19:08:50ZRe: Survey (Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89675#M40923
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@John T wrote:<BR /><P>Aside from questions about the fee itself, I can't work out what this is <EM>for. </EM>What would it achieve?</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Someone at Upwork must think this makes Upwork "better". I don't see how it makes it better for freelancers, but maybe someone at Upwork will comment here and edify us.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>[EDIT:] On second thought, it does make things better for freelancers with numerous longterm clients who have paid&nbsp;in the neighborhood of $10k to the freelancer</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:18:10 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89675#M40923yitwail2015-06-25T19:18:10ZRe: Survey (Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89678#M40924
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@John K wrote:<BR /><P>Jennifer,</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>It's not per milestone or project, it's per client regardless of how many contracts. So it's 18% of the first $500 earned from a new client. Basically, out of the first $500 Upwork takes $90, leaving the freelancer $410.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>oh, ew. Do not want. I'll eat the 10% for some customers, but 20 is a bit high to eat. :-\&nbsp;</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:17:44 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89678#M40924lysis102015-06-25T19:17:44ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89679#M40925
<P>Hi&nbsp;</P><P>Aside from the fee structure itself . I did like being asked about it and NOTIFIED , which was previously did not happen when ODesk was changed to UPWork. I did mention them to Stay at 10% for 500$ projects and then go down to 8% for 1000$ and 7.5 for higher than 1000$. This will definitely&nbsp;hit those having short term clients. &nbsp;It may be the revenue issue (sticking to our pockets.) First they try to put Paid connects&nbsp;which&nbsp;<SPAN>definitely</SPAN><SPAN>&nbsp;didn't prove to be useful. During that time some people did ask them to raise the Fee rather than paid connects .&nbsp;</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>This type of things will eventually&nbsp;ask freelancer to move away from UPwork.</SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:20:08 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89679#M40925faheemkhan5992015-06-25T19:20:08ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89683#M40929
<P>On third thought, I'm not sure this is much of a benefit even with clients in the $10k earnings category, because by that time chances are the freelancer has worked for the client longer than 2 years and can thus work outside Upwork and not pay any fee without violating Upwork TOS. (If I'm mistaken about the 2 years restriction, feel free to correct me. I don't have all the regulations memorized)</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:26:41 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89683#M40929yitwail2015-06-25T19:26:41ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89685#M40930
<P>Any idea where we could look for this 2 year restriction</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:33:19 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89685#M40930faheemkhan5992015-06-25T19:33:19ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89686#M40931
<P>I took the survey.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>When I took it, the survey suggested a new pricing structure wherein Upwork's fee would be 18% for projects under $100 (not five hundred) with one client.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Once you get to $100 with a client, the fee would be 10%.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I think a lot of people might feel differently about a change like this if the threshold for going to 10% fees was $100 instead of $500.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>After $10,000, the fee would be 7.5%.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>This would definitely be a move toward rewarding contractors who work with long term clients, in that they would take home more of the money clients pay after they pass $10,000.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>And this new pricing structure seems to definitely be geared to recouping money spent on the newbie/low-rate contractors who probably take up so much resources to manage.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>18% is a lot more than 10%.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>But I can definitely imagine Upwork might make just such a move in order to move toward having those who generate less revenue pay more of their "fair share" of the cost of running Upwork and providing customer service and funds security.</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:36:10 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89686#M40931prestonhunter2015-06-25T19:36:10ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89688#M40933
<P>Thanks Preston for the clarification. Under $100 seems a lot more reasonable. It might even kill off some farmers and people bidding $20 just to ask the customer for more money later.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>hmm not bad.&nbsp;</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:39:49 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89688#M40933lysis102015-06-25T19:39:49ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89690#M40934
<P>If charging 18% would mean that the client would add the 8% on top of their planned budget then I really don’t care how much the fee will increase. However, if the client expects this fee to be paid by the freelancer, then good luck with that!</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:48:58 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89690#M40934a_kazleva2015-06-25T19:48:58ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89691#M40935
<P>re: "If charging 18% would mean that the client would add the 8% on top..."</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Aleksandra,</P><P>The 18% starter fee (or 10% regular fee, or 7.5% advanced fee) would all be treated the same: These are fees Upwork withdraws from money the client pays before paying the money to the contractor.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>So, in essence, the contractor "pays" the fees, but of course, all the money is coming originally from the client.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>If a client pays $50 for a service I provide, then the client pays $50. Not $50 plus 18%.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Upwork would retain 18% of that under this proposed fee structure ($9.00) and I would receive the rest ($41.00).</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>So if I want to be paid a full $50, then I would need to charge the client $60.98.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>This is how things already are, with the across-the-board 10% fee.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>It's up to me as a contractor to decide how much I'm willing to work for and what hourly rate or fixed-price rate I will work for. This is not part of the client-side interface. The client pays one fee and it is not the client's concern which portion of that goes to Upwork and which portion goes to the contractor.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>It's like any other goods or services that you buy. When you purchase a song in iTunes, I can assure you that some money goes to Apple, some goes to a credit card company, some goes to the singer, some goes to the songwriter, etc., etc. But you are simply presented one price (for example: 99 cents).</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Upwork is not going to change this and make the client's interface more confusing.</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:59:16 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89691#M40935prestonhunter2015-06-25T19:59:16ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89693#M40937
<P>re: "Thanks Preston for the clarification. Under $100 seems a lot more reasonable."</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I'm just telling you what I saw in the survey I took. I'm assuming that similar surveys were sent to different people, some with a $100 threshhold, some with a $500 threshhold.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>But maybe I was imagining things or remembering incorrectly. Anyway, this was a survey, and not an announcement from Upwork. Who knows what they'll do.</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 20:01:26 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89693#M40937prestonhunter2015-06-25T20:01:26ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89694#M40938
<P>Preston, they must have changed the survey after I took it. I'm attaching a screenshot of the survey I took, which clearly shows 18% for the first $500.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 03:07:44 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89694#M40938yitwail2015-06-26T03:07:44ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89695#M40939
<P>Oh my God.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I'm a resume writer and ALL my jobs are short term and not many over $100. For me this would be a disaster. To go from 10% to 18% is really costly and I'm noting eating 18% and that means raising rates and passing it on to clients.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>This would effectively end my jobs here.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I can't believe they are even considering it. All freelancers who do short term work are really going to be hit by this.</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 20:03:15 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89695#M40939jsutherland2015-06-25T20:03:15ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89696#M40940
<P>If they change their criteria from per client to per month(or quarter ) then it might work .&nbsp;But still 18% is much higher . May be 15% would work for them .</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 20:06:58 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89696#M40940faheemkhan5992015-06-25T20:06:58ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89697#M40941
<P>Preston,</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I understand that we are the ones paying the fee. My point was this.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Let’s say the client now has a budget of $50 and I am happy to get $45 (with the 10%). When I apply for this job I see it as a $45 job, not as $50.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>When the fee goes to 18% I would be expecting the offer to be $50 + 8% so I can get my $45. If the client is not planning on increasing the budget for that 8% then I won’t apply.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>This is only my wishful thinking as I am aware that clients couldn’t care less how much we earn, but if the fee increases and the ridiculous job offers stay the same, then I can see many people leaving the platform. If UpWork is thinking of increasing the fee then they should increase the minimum &nbsp;hourly rate and find a way to control fixed price projects that offer offensive pay.</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 20:08:58 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89697#M40941a_kazleva2015-06-25T20:08:58ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89698#M40942
<P>Faheem asked earlier, "Any idea where we could look for this 2 year restriction?"</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN>It's here --&nbsp;<A target="_blank" href="https://www.upwork.com/info/terms/">https://www.upwork.com/info/terms/</A>&nbsp;-- under 7. Non-Circumvention.</SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN>So Preston, you might have a client or 2 who's paid you $10k. Once you're past the 24-month non-circumvention period with Upwork, would you pay even 7.5% or arrange payment outside Upwork &amp; pay nothing?</SPAN></P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 20:12:13 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89698#M40942yitwail2015-06-25T20:12:13ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89703#M40945
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@Faheem K wrote:<BR /><P>Any idea where we could look for this 2 year restriction</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P><P>7. Non-Circumvention</P><P>You acknowledge and agree that a substantial portion of the compensation Upwork receives for making the Site available to you is collected as a deduction of the Service Fee described in Section 6.1 (Service Fee.) Upwork only deducts this Service Fee when a Client and a Freelancer pay and receive payment through the Site. Therefore, for 24 months from the time you identify or are identified by any party through the Site (the <STRONG>"Non-Circumvention Period"</STRONG>), you must use the Site as your exclusive method to request, make, and receive all payments for work directly or indirectly with that party or arising out of your relationship with that party (the <STRONG>"Upwork Relationship"</STRONG>). You may opt-out of this obligation only if Client or prospective Client or Freelancer pays Upwork an <STRONG>"Opt-Out Fee"</STRONG> computed to be the greater of the following amounts:</P><OL><LI>$2,500; or</LI><LI>15% of the cost to the Client of the services to be performed in the Upwork Relationship during the Non-Circumvention Period, as estimated in good faith by the prospective Client; or</LI><LI>all Service Fees that would be earned by Upwork from the Upwork Relationship during the Non-Circumvention Period, computed based on the annualized amount earned by Freelancer from Client during the most recent normalized 8-week period, or during such shorter period as data is available to Upwork;</LI></OL><P>and, in any case, plus interest at the rate of 18% per annum or the maximum rate permitted by applicable law, whichever is less, calculated from the date Client first makes payment to the subject Freelancer until the date the Opt-Out Fee is paid.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><A target="_blank" href="https://www.upwork.com/info/terms/">https://www.upwork.com/info/terms/</A></P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 20:28:47 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89703#M40945suznee2015-06-25T20:28:47ZRe: Survey (Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89706#M40948
<P>I took the same survey, and was surprised there was no request for feedback on the Job Success score fiasco. I just don't understand it. Everything is going smoothly - clients leave me 5 star feedback, and ongoing clients tell me everything is fine - but my number keeps going down? &nbsp;How am I supposed to address this if clients dsay they are happy and are leaving me 5 star feedback?</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 20:31:30 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89706#M40948bbekritsky2015-06-25T20:31:30ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89711#M40952
<P>&nbsp;</P><P>"This would effectively end my jobs here."&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>One of the reasons I left a certain site in UK, who were doing quite well until they introduced the high percentage fees, plus handling charges - all ten fingers.</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 20:46:22 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89711#M40952colettelewis2015-06-25T20:46:22ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89713#M40954
<P>re: "<SPAN>Once you're past the 24-month non-circumvention period with Upwork, would you pay even 7.5% or arrange payment outside Upwork &amp; pay nothing?</SPAN>"</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>To answer your question, I personally would not have any interest in working outside Upwork with any clients I met on Upwork, regardless of whether or not Upwork said it was fine to do so because a certain amount of time has passed.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>For me, staying within the Upwork infrastructure with these clients has value to me beyond any difference in revenue I might bring in with or with not having to pay fees of 7.5% or 10%.</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 20:50:31 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89713#M40954prestonhunter2015-06-25T20:50:31ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89716#M40956
<P>I'm completely new guy. When I read this topic my feeling is so sad. Because I just step forward Upwork one-step.<BR /><BR />But now it has many problem recently.&nbsp;what site I should choose after all, I think I need some advices.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 20:55:53 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89716#M40956hoangviet2892015-06-25T20:55:53ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89720#M40960
<P>What is this about asking people what they think anyway? They never paid the blindest bit of attention to that in the past. They just do what they do and that's it. They still haven't announced the new top rated forum on the announcements page yet. This place is wearing me down. &nbsp;I wish had been chosen to be one of the Stepford freelancers who have been so effusive all week about how perfect this place is....because I'd love to think it was like that. But no, it's just getting weirder by the day.</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 21:00:10 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89720#M40960stephenbrightman2015-06-25T21:00:10ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89722#M40961
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@Preston H wrote:<BR /><P>I took the survey.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>When I took it, the survey suggested a new pricing structure wherein Upwork's fee would be 18% for projects under $100 (not five hundred) with one client.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Once you get to $100 with a client, the fee would be 10%.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I think a lot of people might feel differently about a change like this if the threshold for going to 10% fees was $100 instead of $500....</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Preston and John K,</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Reports from Elance, where the survey was launched simultaneously, suggest that different percentages and threshholds are being presented to different providers. That is a probably more accurate (assuming proper randomization/segmentation), possibly more efficient way to gauge a range of reactions to a range of options, compared to asking individual respondents to compare the options.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Preston, your assessment of Upwork's&nbsp;motives and expected return for implementing&nbsp;these options seem likely, and consistent with other Upwork pronouncements and moves.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Best,</P><P>Michael</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>p.s. At least one version of the Elance survey asks about a "small dollar" relationship cut of 22%.</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 21:19:41 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89722#M40961researchediting2015-06-25T21:19:41ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89724#M40963
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@Stephen B wrote:<BR /><P>&nbsp; I wish had been chosen to be one of the Stepford freelancers who have been so effusive all week about how perfect this place is....because I'd love to think it was like that. But no, it's just getting weirder by the day.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;But Stephen, you said you could transform those&nbsp;horses in your backyard into unicorns!</P><P>That makes you very special in my book.</P><P>Didn't you get an email invitation to the new (not so) happy (anymore) forum???</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 21:11:10 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89724#M40963elastella2015-06-25T21:11:10ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89731#M40967
<P>Yeah, I also took the survey a couple of hours ago and it seems then like they have sent out different fees structures to different contractors for comparison. Mine had the lowest rate as 7% when you earn over $10000 from a single client and the highest fee rate, which is when you earn your first $100 from&nbsp;one client,&nbsp;was 22%. In between there is a 10% rate, The whole thing is kind of doubling the fees all factors considered.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>This would definitely change what the site was to the contractor. And while John you would choose to raise your hourly rate, I might wish to lower mine in order to lure the client into sticking with me for more jobs.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>One of my concerns, though, is that I may be forced to accept lumpsum jobs from clients I would otherwise not have accepted - just to enjoy the lower rates. What I like doing currently is take on one job from a fresh client and see how compatible we are. From that experience then I can opt to accept more jobs or politely turn down any more jobs. I feel like my freedom of choice and flexibility would be drastically curtailed.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 21:38:42 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89731#M40967m_njari2015-06-25T21:38:42ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89742#M40973
<P>I haven't received the survey, so can't be sure of the full details but, in my experience not just of oDesk/Upwork, but in most exercises of this nature, it's not a "survey", it's a "notification".</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>The rates will be going up, it's just a question of by how much?</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Just so as I'm clear on the details, assuming (as in one example) $500 ends up as the starting rate, am I also correct in further assuming that a contract worth $1000 would be deducted at 18% of the first $500 and 10% of the second $500, thereby making total deductions $140 i.e 14%?</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Add that to fees for withdrawing the money to my bank as it's an overseas transaction, plus taxes and other deductions and it's beginning to look like an increasingly unattractive arrangement.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>If the powers at Upwork want to know how good a deal this actually is, ask the clients to fund the fees and then we'll see the queue round the block for the first train out of Dodge.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>10% is already a significant fee, how do Upwork not see that?</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 22:08:05 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89742#M40973wiredcoyote2015-06-25T22:08:05ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89755#M40984
<P>They must really be losing money since the name change to pull a stunt like this. Investors must be seeing numbers they don't like and this is the solution.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I see it driving Freelancers and Clients away. Freelancers raise rates to adjust for the change and clients leave in droves as they can get things done cheaper elsewhere.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Freelancers won't be making the same money and will leave in droves as they can get a better deal elsewhere.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I recently bought a program that checks job openings across 8 different sites. Craigslist, Fiver, Odesk, Elance, Freelancer etc and it looks like now it's going to come in handy. It's versitile, easy to use and will email me anytime a job opens in my category. Guess I'll be using it a lot now.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I'm so disappointed in Upwork. All the things that are wrong here just makes this so unattractive. Search for freelancers are useless with inappropriate users being shown, freelancers who can't find jobs through searches, clients that spam and cheat people, clients with no verified payment and then there is the Job Success score that punishes us for every little thing we do wrong and punishes us for things that are the clients fault.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>On top of that we have to pay for a membership to get enough connects to get apply to jobs and pay to withdraw our own money. They are beating us to death ...are they trying to drive most of us away?</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I just don't get it.</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 22:31:54 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89755#M40984jsutherland2015-06-25T22:31:54ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89756#M40985
<P>Hi All,</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Thank you for the discussion and sharing your opinion about the numbers you saw in the survey.&nbsp;<SPAN>Upwork regularly </SPAN><SPAN class="il">surveys</SPAN><SPAN> our customers to better understand your needs and activity on the platform. The responses are being collected purely for informational purposes.&nbsp;If there are any changes in this sphere, we will definitely inform the Community.</SPAN></P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 22:34:36 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89756#M40985kochubei_valeria2015-06-25T22:34:36ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89764#M40992
<P>Jean, it could be related to this idea: <A target="_blank" href="http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html">http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html</A></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Yet, maybe the plan is to discourage clients who want very cheap jobs and try to abuse the platform to get freelancers to work for pennies.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>There were comments on Elance forum about low quality/low budget clients here at oDesk side. Well, this change would encourage serious clients to stay, and others to move.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 02:57:38 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89764#M40992astderek2015-06-26T02:57:38ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89771#M40996
@ Jennifer<BR /><BR />I would like to know who or what is a "farmer." I am not accustomed to this term as it is used.Thu, 25 Jun 2015 23:18:38 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89771#M40996setumonroe2015-06-25T23:18:38ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89779#M40999
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@Setu M wrote:<BR />@ Jennifer<BR /><BR />I would like to know who or what is a "farmer." I am not accustomed to this term as it is used.<HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Farmers are people who sell customers on content writing but then hire someone at Fiverr or some place cheap to write the content for cheap. Client is&nbsp;unhappy. While it seems like it wouldn't harm anyone else, if the client is new to places like this, they get burned and there's a good chance they will go elsewhere.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I have a farmer I regularly compete with. I had 3 of his clients this month come back to me and ask what I can do. They send me his content and it's awful. "Editing" it would be just rewriting it, so regular rates apply. The other difficult part is that these customers think they should get a discount since they've already paid money and got burned. Unfortunately, I can't do that for them. I won 1 of his jobs after his customer was unhappy, but the other two didn't want to swing the increased amount.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Nothing new in the writing world. Just frustrating sometimes. &nbsp;They make great money though. Sometimes, it's tempting to join the darkside, but I'm too OCD about my work.</P>Thu, 25 Jun 2015 23:50:59 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89779#M40999lysis102015-06-25T23:50:59ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89784#M41003
Ok, thanks for the explanation.<BR /><BR />I assume you are referring to Elance re you experiences, since I don't see a contract displayed on your profile.Fri, 26 Jun 2015 00:08:58 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89784#M41003setumonroe2015-06-26T00:08:58ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89787#M41005
<P>Does Upwork just want to get rid of the small jobs on the site?</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>First the connects made people hesitant to apply for small jobs because they didn't feel it was worth it and they wanted to save the connects for a more valuable job. And now, people with small jobs will have a higher fee attached which will further decrease the number of freelancers willing to apply for those jobs.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>If you want to get rid of the small jobs, then just increase the minimum amount that can be paid.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 00:16:23 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89787#M41005david_gregory2015-06-26T00:16:23ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89789#M41007
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@Ela K wrote:<BR /><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I wonder what the average contract value (per client) is on Upwork. It must be way below $500 - otherwise this doesn't make any sense from their perspective.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Setu? I think one of your nice graphs is in order.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That would be great Ela. There are 205,000 active freelancers in the last 2 months. It is possible to get that information from viewing profiles, however it would be a mammoth task to get anything near a representative sample to make some inference. Data could be gathered from 200 random profiles from each job category (12 x 200 = 2400), which would be 1.17% of the population, and an acceptable sample estimate.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>It would require an army to gather that data in a reasonable time-frame. So sorry to disappoint. Or you could ask management to let me have the data <img id="smileywink" class="emoticon emoticon-smileywink" src="https://community.upwork.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.png" alt="Smiley Wink" title="Smiley Wink" />.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 00:20:18 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89789#M41007setumonroe2015-06-26T00:20:18ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89794#M41010
<P>It might have been nice if they had been more open about this and what their intentions are/were. Instead they've upset the entire freelance community and I'm not sure I trust that it's "just a survey." So many things are hidden from us and it's a poor way to treat freelancers.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 00:46:42 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89794#M41010jsutherland2015-06-26T00:46:42ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89799#M41013
<P>They might want to discourage those who are not serious enough to spend on quality work.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 01:00:10 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89799#M41013astderek2015-06-26T01:00:10ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89800#M41014
<P>I am very disheartened by this prospect. 99% of my jobs are one offs. I don't work in a field that requires an eventual 10k to be paid by a single client. Most of my jobs pay 100 bucks or less. I suspect the same is true of more freelancers than not. As was mentioned by another poster, the fact that a potential client can't even find me, regardless of the fact that I am "top rated" and have a 5 star average, and that I can't rely on getting notifications or messages, already makes it harder for me to maintain a pipeline of jobs. Taking away almost double of what I used to pay in fees, combined with the atmosphere of paranoia that has been allowed to foster with account suspensions and financial activities being limited for so many people, I am finding it harder to justify seeking work on here. Even if I did have a client paying me a large enough sum over time for me to meet the amount needed to only have to pay the 10% or even 7.5%, I would be terrified to have that much sitting in my Upwork account for fear that it would be held up or worse. I honestly don't see how this would benefit anyone other than Upwork and a small proportion of freelancers. Even raising my rates to compensate doesn't help me get jobs, as a client's budget is what it is. They'll just find a freelancer that is willing to work for what they will pay.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 01:08:27 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89800#M41014svenimp2015-06-26T01:08:27ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89801#M41015
<P>I received this survey a few hours back. The only way it can benefit anyone is if the client has money from the start and is willing to go LONG. This will eat up clients and freelancers who depend on the short-term approach to work, totally discouraging short-term work and spending while forcing long-term relationships (I find the term too intimate)</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Increased fees means I have to increase my rates. Increased rates may mean I have less chances of landing a job.</P><P>Also, the amount of clients who are willing to go beyond the $500-$10,000 range is quite rare specially in the Writing category.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>You're lucky if you get a long-term client but what if you don't even get past the $500 cap? You'll be charged more than you used to.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>This won't be beneficial to the freelancer or their&nbsp;clients. They'll see a sudden demand for raised rates and they'll be veering away from a website that almost doubles the fees. Not to mention how new and some veteran clients (those who haven't went beyond 500 yet) will not like this decision.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>How would you attract more clients and freelancers this way?</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I'm trying to look at it from UpWork's POV and they&nbsp;might as well be purging small and mid-range clients from joining the website, leaving UpWork almost exclusive to those which have pretty decent capital.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>And I believe most clients, specially the new ones, aim to actually make money without spending so much at first. The risk-reward ratio isn't pleasing.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Future start-ups depend on freelancing websites such as UpWork. How can they start if they don't even have proper funding to begin with? This would discourage students and people who earn minimum to try and make something out of their lives besides the job they have.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>What if they implement it?</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I'll Increase rates and wish my clients don't leave me or at least agree with the raise.</P><P>Seriously, if they&nbsp;implement this, they&nbsp;will be purging their&nbsp;customers and workers alike.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 01:22:13 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89801#M41015anima92015-06-26T01:22:13ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89802#M41016
<P>I haven't seen this either.. and i think it's absolutely rediculous. 10% is already a HUGE amount! Consider what Upwork actually has to offer and all the problems it comes with.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>18% is about the same amount most people here will pay in income tax!!</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>All Upwork is, is a glorifed Craigslist. It's a matching service, with interesting ideas... but they don't and never have worked well. The amount of issues Upwork has actually costs me money from lost opportunity that I would normally have entertained had there been no bugs or fewer control systems in place.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>We are treated as employee's of Upwork, less the legal constraints on their end. We are absolutely bound by their whims and can be 'fired' via JS score and client fraund/poor attitude. I say fired because if your profile is anything less than stellar, you may as well pack your bags and look elsewhere.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>And they want to double our fees for this?</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>The ONE thing Upwork has to ofer that works nice is the time tracker. That's it. There is nothing else here that gives value that any other job posting board can offer. Is using a time tracker worth 18% of my income? Lol...</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>The service has been getting worse and worse because they are trying to be too much. They try to control too much and too innovative. Problem is, they have consistantly failed to deliver. I'd take oDesk 4 years ago in a heartbeat over the new and improved Upwork.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Charging more for a declining service is just rediculous in my view.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>One the other hand, I'm very happy to hear tehy are actually asking us what we think this time.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>See guys? They merge the two biggest markets to gain a monopoly, and then hike the fees to a a rate that is on par with what the government takes. If you are in that tax bracket, your $15/hr is now going to become $9-10/hr. Can you live with that? If not.. you'll have to increase your fees. But wait! Aren't client here in the first place to save money?</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Thank you for posting this info, I had no idea it was happening! They seem to think if they monopolize the market, no one will ever decide to find work elsewhere and no one will ever just build a new platform that makes more financial sense for the people who pay their bills. I swear if they continue on this path, the company won't last more than a couple more years until new players enter the market.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I'd happily pay 18% (or even more!) IF... if.... there was some sort of logical value to those fees.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>So my vote is NO. Thanks <img id="smileyhappy" class="emoticon emoticon-smileyhappy" src="https://community.upwork.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.png" alt="Smiley Happy" title="Smiley Happy" /></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 01:14:45 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89802#M41016t-hall2015-06-26T01:14:45ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89804#M41018
<P>I am just simply amazed that with the number of problems going on with this site, Upwork chooses now to send people a survey about increasing rates.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>"The site doesn't work and we have a lot of problems but we're thinking about charging more for it. What do you think?"</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>It's silly and a waste of time and manpower that could be better spent elsewhere fixing the problems that desperately need to be fixed on this site.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 01:19:46 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89804#M41018david_gregory2015-06-26T01:19:46ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89806#M41020
<P>Thanks for sharing this... wow, lots of changes happening and not that they're bug-free. Now, this. &nbsp;So... if like you have a long term contract... does it mean 18% all the way until you reach $9,500? &nbsp;or that 18% is a one time charge every $500 earned? &nbsp;Confused &nbsp;<img id="womanfrustrated" class="emoticon emoticon-womanfrustrated" src="https://community.upwork.com/i/smilies/16x16_woman-frustrated.png" alt="Woman Frustrated" title="Woman Frustrated" /></P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 01:46:15 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89806#M41020msayno2015-06-26T01:46:15ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89812#M41022
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@Marissa S wrote:<BR />
<P>Thanks for sharing this... wow, lots of changes happening and not that they're bug-free. Now, this. &nbsp;So... if like you have a long term contract... does it mean 18% all the way until you reach $9,500? &nbsp;or that 18% is a one time charge every $500 earned? &nbsp;Confused &nbsp;<img id="womanfrustrated" class="emoticon emoticon-womanfrustrated" src="https://community.upwork.com/i/smilies/16x16_woman-frustrated.png" alt="Woman Frustrated" title="Woman Frustrated" /></P>
<HR /></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>I don't know if this will help anyone but I copied not only what John posted earlier but the rest of the example as a screenshot.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 03:21:21 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89812#M41022suznee2015-06-26T03:21:21ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89813#M41023
<P>Thanks Suzanne; that helped a lot <img id="smileywink" class="emoticon emoticon-smileywink" src="https://community.upwork.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.png" alt="Smiley Wink" title="Smiley Wink" /></P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 02:15:53 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89813#M41023msayno2015-06-26T02:15:53ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89823#M41026
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@Jean S wrote:<BR /><P>They must really be losing money since the name change to pull a stunt like this. Investors must be seeing numbers they don't like and this is the solution.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Jean,</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Upwork has never made a profit. oDesk never made a profit. Elance has never made a profit. A good working assumption is that any and all policy and procedure changes are meant to bring Upwork into profitability, and that this has been the case from when the various entities were mere&nbsp;gleams in entrepreneurial and investment eyes.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Best,</P><P>Michael</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 03:00:07 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89823#M41026researchediting2015-06-26T03:00:07ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89856#M41045
<P>I'm against! 10 maximum!</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 06:54:06 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89856#M41045fedkirill2015-06-26T06:54:06ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89859#M41046
<P>Farmers exist everywhere not just Elance. You will often see writing&nbsp;websites&nbsp;offering all the usual&nbsp;services,&nbsp;and the people who own them farm the work out&nbsp;to freelancers working on&nbsp;sites such as these.&nbsp;</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 06:56:08 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89859#M41046colettelewis2015-06-26T06:56:08ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89871#M41051
@cesar<BR /><BR />Just because a job is small doesn't mean it isn't quality.<BR /><BR />In many categories $500 jobs just don't happen very often, and yet there are a lot of excellent Freelancers working exclusively in those categories.<BR /><BR />If Upwork only want serious clients, let's see how they serious they are by asking them to pay the fees.Fri, 26 Jun 2015 08:42:20 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89871#M41051wiredcoyote2015-06-26T08:42:20ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89876#M41052
<P>I haven't received any survey but according to John's and Preston's posts, Upwork must have sent different surveys to different users. Regardless the mentioned fees and earnings, my answer would be categorically no. The simple answer is that there are way too many issues with Upwork to even consider higher fees. I fully agree with Tony's and other posters' opinion about this issue.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 09:14:16 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89876#M41052natram2015-06-26T09:14:16ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89891#M41065
<P>Hi all !!</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I also received that same survey today. Right around the time I found it, the site stopped working and I couldn't see the entire top section (the navigation section). It seems to be working now.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>The survey I received was showing as $100 is the first part for 18%. So my guess is they're sent based on what work you do the most here. I could be wrong and the surveys were sent completely at random.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>The short version = here's something broken, let's break it some more and then charge extra. Sound like a good idea to anyone? The "here's something broken" part has been decorating these forums for quite some time now in case no one noticed.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>From what I understand of it, a freelancer has to get somewhere between $100 up to $500 (based on the survey I was sent), just to get BACK to the 10% we have been paying initially. That's IF <U><STRONG>A</STRONG><STRONG> CLIENT</STRONG></U> actually lasts that long and/or pays that much. And then 7.5% if <U><STRONG>A CLIENT</STRONG></U> gets as far as paying $10,000 (or $1,000 or whatever higher amount). Basically, if a client I have now reached $100-$500, I'm at the same fee of 10%. Anything less from a client I currently have ends up costing me MORE (18%) if whatever other work I'm doing for that same client does not reach the minimum. Whatever the reason may be for that.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>If I start with a new client, I'm <U><STRONG>ALWAYS</STRONG></U> stuck starting out with that 18% fee. And it'll be stuck like that until the pay reaches the minimum. That's <STRONG>IF</STRONG> it reaches the minimum. As a writer, I'd have to write at least 10,000 words worth of articles for 1 client just to GET BACK to 10%. As pointed out by other freelancers in other lines of work, they'd have NO CHANCE of getting back to 10%.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>On the side of new clients, where does this leave them other than looking for another place to find freelancers? How many new clients are being completely ignored already just because of connects? There's nothing in place to make me or anyone currently want to give them a chance. Why bother is the question on most, <U><STRONG>NOT all</STRONG></U>, freelancers minds when seeing job posts from new clients. Even if it was a real deal client looking to really spend some money for work that's needed, freelancers have no real way of knowning. Thanks "quality control". But this change indicates freelancers have to pay MORE even IF it is a real deal client. Where's the benefit to any freelancer or client?</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Freelancers would have to charge more even with their current clients just to keep up. Where's the benefit to the freelancer or client (current or new)? Let's not overlook freelancers that would never mention any fee drops even if they reached the minimum prices.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>All broken things considered, of which the list is large and growing, where is ANYTHING resembling a benefit to anyone other than Upwork?</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>And the person(s) from Upwork that sent the surveys wonder why they're seeing negative replies?!! Here's an idea, try sending me a survey that's not so easily picked apart to point out the problems. You send me a survey based on a half baked idea at best. Go figure why it gets picked apart. Easily or otherwise. It was barely a challenge to do so!!</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>My exact reply......</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I'd either never bother attempting to get a new client or I'd outright leave. It's just not worth it as things currently stand.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>The short version...... "your stuff is broken as I'm looking at it RIGHT NOW (refer to the very first ^ part I wrote in this topic). I completely fail to see anything resembling a benefit to me. Why would I pay you more"?</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 09:40:27 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89891#M41065ago_g2015-06-26T09:40:27ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89896#M41068
<P>I did not receive the survey but :</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>- i think it is a really bad move now when so many problems to e solved BEFORE thinking to change business model</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>- it is a really big increase ! the fee grow by 80 % !!!! My god....who can afford that ?</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>- if they do , what happen to the jobs or contracts working ....it increase final price for customers or decrease your net earning ? i think what is the answer &nbsp;If it is that with many long contracts i have from lomgtime , i will close them with customers and think to do differently&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>- we will all increase our rates and the cost for customer will increase and it will be a bad move for upwork</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>- it seems that upwork want to optimize very quickly ( paying connects, ...) its business model but dont understnad that this model lay on a &nbsp;satisfied customer/freelancer duet. Big changes can move the lines so deeply that they can really get out of the road</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>And from my point of view : why i need upwork ? i need it to find NEW customers and for safety transaction . If these 2 points dont work easily the model is destroyed.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 10:15:45 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89896#M41068motyduke2015-06-26T10:15:45ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89906#M41077
<P>Case in point as to the culture of paranoia regarding suspensions and account holds. Less than &nbsp;12 hours after posting this, the only long term contract I have that would qualify has been suspended, and the funds that had already been paid but were waiting in my account for the review period will possibly not be paid to me.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN>" Even if I did have a client paying me a large enough sum over time for me to meet the amount needed to only have to pay the 10% or even 7.5%, I would be terrified to have that much sitting in my Upwork account for fear that it would be held up or worse. I honestly don't see how this would benefit anyone other than Upwork and a small proportion of freelancers. Even raising my rates to compensate doesn't help me get jobs, as a client's budget is what it is. They'll just find a freelancer that is willing to work for what they will pay."</SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN>I am AWARE that technically, the funds haven't been paid yet, and that if the work diary meets all of the Payment Gaurantee qualifications, then I will get paid. But the nature of the work involved unfortunately doesn't reflect enough "activity" for the work diary to pick up. And I'm aware that if I had more hourly clients paying me more money then I wouldn't have to worry about this client. I'm also aware that if I were 6 inches taller, then I wouldn't be a short person and that if I didn't have to pay bills then I wouldn't have bills to pay.</SPAN></P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 11:17:49 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89906#M41077svenimp2015-06-26T11:17:49ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89908#M41078
<P>I got the survey. They're obviously doing the split groups thing to gauge reactions to different numbers.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I got the one with 18% for the first $100, 10% for the first&nbsp;$10000 and then 7.5% for amounts above that. I still think it's too high, especially considering the many fields that need short one-off jobs done. Not to mention some freelancers prefer not to work long-term - just because it fits their schedule better. A move like this will basically double their fees and if that doesn't make one reconsider working here, I don't know what will.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>And let's be real, if there are limited sets of numbers already being selected, this is happening. Just not right now. But maybe next year, or when the migration from Elance is complete, it's happening. And it's definitely enough to motivate me to look for alternative sources of work. I fill the slow periods in my long-term contracts with one-off short jobs, most of them in the $130 - $300 range.&nbsp;If this happens, I'll have to pay double fees for those? And when I pay taxes on what's left of it, the end result looks like I've done the work as charity. No, thanks.&nbsp;</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 11:54:11 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89908#M41078zoomconcepts2015-06-26T11:54:11ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89921#M41086
<P>I'm still not understanding what the real point of this is. I don't think it's really a revenue-generating thing, as they're only putting up fees on the smaller amounts. In real terms, it's not going to generate much cash for Upwork.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Surely skewing the payment structure to benefit long term relationships is somewhat philosophically at odds with the whole "freelance marketplace" concept? I mean, one of the key reasons to become a freelancer is specifically <EM>not</EM> to work for one boss long term. And yet another is that clients have to compete for your time just as much as you have to compete for their jobs.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I can't make sense of it at all. I can't see where it would deliver a benefit for <EM>anybody</EM>.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 13:07:14 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89921#M41086johntatlock2015-06-26T13:07:14ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89945#M41103
<P>Reduction of part time jobs benefits Upwork.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>All those small jobs are costing them money. People with low rates cost them money. They simply do not make enough profit to keep the jobs around and will gradually move away from this area and more into their new Enterprise Solutions.&nbsp;<A href="http://ptc.elance.com/" target="_blank">http://ptc.elance.com/</A></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>So if you qualify for Enterprise Solutions you will probably be ok. The rest of us need to move on to another site. It's that simple. After really thinking long and hard about this yesterday this seems to be the most applicable reason for what is about to happen.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 14:05:08 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89945#M41103jsutherland2015-06-26T14:05:08ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89970#M41119
<P>The more I see changes I wonder if Upwork is looking to self implode. The only thing I can see with this is they are trying to get rid of the freelancers and head towards long paying contracts, but even those who have long term contracts I am sure are not going to be willing to pay 18% for a system that doesn't work.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I use to think it was ok for 10% but with all the problems on the site and job invites and the search engine not working correctly and now even jobs that a client has hired and feedback are all messed up. It is not even worth the 10% I pay any longer.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I pay almost as high as that &nbsp;in taxes, I am sure not going to give Upwork 18% whether it be the first $100 or the first $500. It is just ridiculous to think that you can gouge your freelancers asking if they would pay these kind of fees.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>What (insert your own choice or words) sat in the office going we can raise their rates and rake in a billion more off the back of our freelancers.</P><P><BR />Talk about abuse of something.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 14:50:09 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89970#M41119suznee2015-06-26T14:50:09ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89995#M41139
<P>Maybe they sat there and thought...how do we get rid of the people we don't want while we move toward a new strategy of Enterprise Solutions? and the people invited to that program will only need to pay 8%</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 16:34:06 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89995#M41139jsutherland2015-06-26T16:34:06ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89998#M41141
<P>The enterprise stuff only covers a fairly narrow range of roles though. It would genuinely surprise me if they were happy to throw away all the other kinds of work that go on here.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 16:43:47 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/89998#M41141johntatlock2015-06-26T16:43:47ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90009#M41146
<P>John, that's exactly what is happening! Read Jean's posts. Based on&nbsp;diligent research, she has&nbsp;realistic insight into the future of the Upwork business model.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Work "here" is a loss; work "there" (Upwork Enterprise) is a sustainable win.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 17:39:14 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90009#M41146lanwanman2015-06-26T17:39:14ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90011#M41148
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@John T wrote:<BR /><P>The enterprise stuff only covers a fairly narrow range of roles though. It would genuinely surprise me if they were happy to throw away all the other kinds of work that go on here.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Enterprise solutions may cover a narrow range but it is an extremely profitable range with less headaches, professionals who know what they're doing and who don't flood CS with dozens of support tickets. They generate significant profits.It makes sense for a company to expand their business into the more profitable areas and get rid of costly areas that are not productive.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>The other categories of which you speak, provide little benefit to the company, in many cases cost the company money to continually provide support to people who refuse to read documents to understand the system, teach themselves the system and become sophisticated freelancers. They are dead weight who cost the system money. They do not provide Upwork with value and cost the company money. The profit margin for these people is small; hence the need to focus on more sophisticated freelancers who are willing to put in the time to learn. Many of these $3 - $15 dollar freelancers provide the company with very little profit potential.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>If you owned a business you'd want to concentrate on the people who make you money and not cost you money. Why do you think these are invite only positions. They are picking the cream of the crop who will provide the company with high revenues while providing clients with successful outcomes by intelligent people.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Those who do not meet the standards are not worth the dollars being spent on them when time and resources can be better applied to profit generators who will provide the company with high profit margins. It only makes sense that this is the direction you would want your go to go.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Companies who succeed, hire the best people possible and get rid of the dead weight.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>With this in mind, I will now be changing the direction of my work experience back into areas that provide profits to the company with no hassles from me.&nbsp;</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 17:54:22 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90011#M41148jsutherland2015-06-26T17:54:22ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90057#M41179
<P>Jean,</P><P><BR />More then once you have made comments about $15.00 an hour jobs not being worth anything or not being profitable or less money. You have also insulted anyone making less then you think other's should make. It is really uncalled for. It is also not very professional to snub your fellow freelancers because you don't think they make enough.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Minimum wage in the US last time I looked was less then $15.00 an hour. I really wish you would quit making remarks like this to people. It is very unflattering for another Freelancer to be slamming someone who makes less money.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>FYI $15 an hour full time for a year is almost $30,000 which is not a small amount of money.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Please keep your opinions to yourself. It really is uncalled for putting other members of this forum down.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Edited to add FYI some of the freelancers invited to your so called special groups make less then $5 an hour, so please refrain from thinking you know more then anyone else about how much Upwork values a price range.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 20:13:38 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90057#M41179suznee2015-06-26T20:13:38ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90060#M41182
<HR /><P>&nbsp;Suzanne I referred to it only in terms of whether it is profitable to Upwork or not. I did not express it as my personal opinion. $15 is minimum wage in some states of the US but I don't believe that even $20 an hour is in the range of profitability for UPWORK...I am not talking about people in general but whether or not it is profitable for the company.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Read again what I said.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I did not disparage anyone making that amount and it's an amount I made for many years on Upwork. I ONLY referred to it in terms of what the COMPANY may be thinking.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 20:20:29 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90060#M41182jsutherland2015-06-26T20:20:29ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90061#M41183
<P>Jean,</P><P><BR />FYI there is no state that pays $15.00 per hour minimum wage. In fact the highest Minimum wage in the US is $9.50 an hour in Washington DC.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><A href="http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wage-chart.aspx#1" target="_blank">http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wage-chart.aspx#1</A></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>This was not the first time this week I have seen you comment to someone in regards to making $15 an hour and how it wasn't anything. I am sorry you do not think others are up to your snuff cause they make less money then you.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 20:21:51 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90061#M41183suznee2015-06-26T20:21:51ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90065#M41186
<P>Jean S speculated, "All those small jobs are costing them money. People with low rates cost them money."</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>If the intent is to eliminate small jobs, there are more transparent ways of doing so. For instance, define a minimum budget for small jobs, say $100. Then&nbsp;for an hourly job, calculate<SPAN>&nbsp;minumum of billable hours&nbsp;</SPAN>equal to $100 divided by the rate charged by the freelancer hired. For instance, the client would be automatically charged 10 hours for a $10/hr freelancer, and 4 hours for a $25/hr freelancer. This guarantees every job costs a minimum of $100 or whatever else Upwork chooses.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN>Jean S also stated, "Enterprise solutions may cover a narrow range but it is an extremely profitable range with less headaches, professionals who know what they're doing and who don't flood CS with dozens of support tickets."</SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>If that's the issue, there's a simple fix--charge freelancers for every support ticket in excess of however many they get free per month, exactly the same way Connects work.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 20:28:54 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90065#M41186yitwail2015-06-26T20:28:54ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90072#M41191
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@Suzanne N wrote:<BR /><P>Jean,</P><P><BR />FYI there is no state that pays $15.00 per hour minimum wage. In fact the highest Minimum wage in the US is $9.50 an hour in Washington DC.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><A href="http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wage-chart.aspx#1" target="_blank">http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wage-chart.aspx#1</A></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>This was not the first time this week I have seen you comment to someone in regards to making $15 an hour and how it wasn't anything. I am sorry you do not think others are up to your snuff cause they make less money then you.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;I am not an American Suzanne.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I guess I was thinking of individual cities like Seattle who have a $15 minimum wage.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I have NEVER said it was not "anything."</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I did not refer to it in a personal way but again a COMPANY&nbsp;(Upwork) mindset.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I don't understand why you cannot seem to understand I was talking from the company's point of view. It was never my personal opinion. GO AND READ IT AGAIN.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 20:54:02 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90072#M41191jsutherland2015-06-26T20:54:02ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90075#M41193
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@Bojana D wrote:<BR /><P>I got the survey. They're obviously doing the split groups thing to gauge reactions to different numbers.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>....I still think it's too high, especially considering the many fields that need short one-off jobs done. Not to mention some freelancers prefer not to work long-term - just because it fits their schedule better. A move like this will basically double their fees and if that doesn't make one reconsider working here, I don't know what will.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>And let's be real, if there are limited sets of numbers already being selected, this is happening. Just not right now. But maybe next year, or when the migration from Elance is complete, it's happening. And it's definitely enough to motivate me to look for alternative sources of work. I fill the slow periods in my long-term contracts with one-off short jobs, most of them in the $130 - $300 range.&nbsp;If this happens, I'll have to pay double fees for those? And when I pay taxes on what's left of it, the end result looks like I've done the work as charity. No, thanks.&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Bojana,</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Good observations.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I don't see myself bearing the direct cost&nbsp;of any increase for short-term jobs. My rates are still going to be market rate for the task plus the relevant Upwork commission. On the one hand, I can afford to take this gamble because I don't compete on price, and have recently been getting longer-term contracts. On the other, there's a good chance it will cut off a niche I've specialized in: editing for non-English-native graduate students studying in English, the upper limits&nbsp;of whose budgets often graze&nbsp;the lower limits&nbsp;of my rates. If I'm to continue in that niche, the likelihood of finding such work via Upwork will probably take a nosedive.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Best,</P><P>Michael</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>p.s. Addressing survey method, not being a method guy, my understanding is that the best procedure would have been to send each proposed tier structure to a representative sample of all users; though we can't know for sure, this looks like what Upwork has done.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 21:02:21 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90075#M41193researchediting2015-06-26T21:02:21ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90077#M41194
I was also peeved in the other thread so I decided to do what I normally do, do some math. Turns out $55/hr is not that different from $15/hr if you get 1/3 less jobs.<BR /><BR />My part-part-time 1 year total was not far off from the $55/hr 1 year total on the platform. Hmmm......Fri, 26 Jun 2015 21:03:01 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90077#M41194setumonroe2015-06-26T21:03:01ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90078#M41195
<P>Jean,</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Seattle's minimum wage is 9 something per hour. They had an ballot up which did not pass wanting $15 an hour. California and Oregon have discussed similar measures, but there is no state in the US with a minimum above $9.50 an hour. Some states have no minimum wage, but there is a set Federal Minimum wage of $7.25 an hour.&nbsp;</P><P><BR />There are many working on Upwork from the US working for less then the $7.25 an hour.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I read your post and it is still reads directed at those who are in the price ranges you refer to as less then substantial.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I would really like to see where the comment came from if not from your mouth? (or fingers in this case) IF it is from something Upwork said by all means please post a link so everyone can read it?</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 21:03:39 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90078#M41195suznee2015-06-26T21:03:39ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90085#M41202
<P>Suzanne, Jean never claimed to be speaking for Upwork. She is using her business knowledge and analytical skills to try to make sense of an easily-inferred strategic direction that is puzzling many.<BR /><BR />Not knowing the background of prior exchanges, I'm not sure what prior posts might have predisposed you to misinterpret her present ones. You are, however, both misinterpreting and personalizing in a way that it not at all justified by the content of the posts themselves.<BR /><BR />Best,<BR />Michael</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 21:26:28 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90085#M41202researchediting2015-06-26T21:26:28ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90086#M41203
<P>For all those who think that Upwork is actually trying to phase out smaller contracts, I have a very different opinion. The management has repeatedly expressed the move towards providing more to Top rated freelancers and top rated earners on the platform and have taken many steps&nbsp;to effect this. In their own words they have ensured that these freelancers now enjoy 2x more jobs and top jobs compared to other freelancers.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Now this is only one more step in the same direction to solidify that move. To support my point&nbsp;I will illustrate the outcome.&nbsp;By increasing the % on the charges to the 80%-90% of freelancers that would fall in the lower thresholds, they would be increasing their profits easily. While at the same time charging a lower % on those who already fall in the upper&nbsp;category. In essence the change would opposite to the average Income Tax which governs most countries. However instead of a higher charge being levied against higher earners, it would be placed on lower earners. How can this be supported.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>It is bad enough that a level percentage still affects smaller jobs more than larger ones (though the percentage is the same, the real power of the earning income is drastically different). One more + for the top top rated, afterall that is what the management said. So why are we surprised?</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 21:27:21 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90086#M41203setumonroe2015-06-26T21:27:21ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90087#M41204
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@Douglas Michael M wrote:<BR /><P>Suzanne, Jean never claimed to be speaking for Upwork. She is using her business knowledge and analytical skills to try to make sense of an easily-inferred strategic direction that is puzzling many.<BR /><BR />Not knowing the background of prior exchanges, I'm not sure what prior posts might have predisposed you to misinterpret her present ones. You are, however, both misinterpreting and personalizing in a way that it not at all justified by the content of the posts themselves.<BR /><BR />Best,<BR />Michael</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank you Michael. Finally someone who understands what I was trying to convey.&nbsp;</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 21:28:53 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90087#M41204jsutherland2015-06-26T21:28:53ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90092#M41209
<P>Setu,</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>As usual, thanks for providing a well-reasoned perspective. But if we observe&nbsp;Occam's razor, then the simplest&nbsp;explanation is that&nbsp;higher fees will generate higher profit (<EM>ceteris paribus).</EM></P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 22:05:47 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90092#M41209yitwail2015-06-26T22:05:47ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90094#M41210
<P>Work&nbsp;<EM>BETTER??!!??!!&nbsp;</EM><STRONG>IT DOESN'T WORK AT ALL!!!!!!</STRONG></P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 22:06:26 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90094#M41210b3baby2015-06-26T22:06:26ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90095#M41211
<P>Thanks Setu. That's an interesting theory and I respect your opinion since like me, you're a "numbers" person.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 22:08:29 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90095#M41211jsutherland2015-06-26T22:08:29ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90097#M41213
<P>Well, obviously, Upwork is a profit-seeking business. Nothing in principle to object to there.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>However, if the sole motivation was a tacky attempt to take more cash off the table, then the proposed rate increases would be across the board, and they're not. Clearly, there's an notion here that things can work better and more profitably even with high earners kicking in <EM>lower</EM> rates.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Myself, I think this is all quite reasonable stuff for Upwork to be looking into, but on what's been revealed about this survey so far, it all seems characteristically only-half-thought-through.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 22:10:56 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90097#M41213johntatlock2015-06-26T22:10:56ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90100#M41216
<P>@ John, @ Jean,</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I hope both opinions are incorrect, because neither of them has&nbsp;a positive outcome. One is just worse than the other. It is clear though that change has begun and will continue. In the mean time we will have to see how to adjust again, as Jean indicated in earlier posts.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 22:14:30 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90100#M41216setumonroe2015-06-26T22:14:30ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90101#M41217
<P>John T, in Economics 101 they teach you about 'hidden costs'. The hidden costs in this case would be an exodus of freelancers unable or unwilling to pay higher fees and an exodus of clients unable or unwilling to hire the remaining freelancers that charge more than the departed freelancers. There may also be some savings to Upwork from a reduction in the number of freelancers and clients. In any event, if the net loss from the hidden costs exceeds the net profit from increased fees plus savings from reduction in clients and freelancers, then the hypothetical fee increase makes Upwork worse all around. One expects astute management would factor all this in.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 22:39:49 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90101#M41217yitwail2015-06-26T22:39:49ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90103#M41219
<P>I'm not sure what I've posted to give you the impression I'm in need of Economics 101, but yes, one would expect management to consider those factors, not least due to their staggering obviousness.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I dunno, is "Business seeking to maximise profitability" meant to come as a revelation? Of course they're doing that. That's not really what's of note or a concern to anyone here, I shouldn't think.</P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 22:46:48 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90103#M41219johntatlock2015-06-26T22:46:48ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90105#M41221
<P>John T, I didn't intend&nbsp;to question your knowledge of economics, but I see that my comments can be interpreted that way, so I apologize. In my muddled way I was agreeing with your observation that '<SPAN>if the sole motivation was a tacky attempt to take more cash off the table, then the proposed rate increases would be across the board'.</SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN>When I first suggested that 'higher fees&nbsp;produce higher profit' (all things being equal), I was proposing a short-term profit motive in place&nbsp;of a long-term strategy that others had suggested earlier.</SPAN></P>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 23:00:50 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90105#M41221yitwail2015-06-26T23:00:50ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90481#M41495
<P>GUYS!</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>PLEASE fix the site errors first, and then think about the money!</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Errors with messages delivering with 2-3 days delay, searching freelancers, looking through 20 irrelevant pages, header disappearing and hundreds of small errors, that make upwork worst place ever.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I know you want to get MOOORE money, that is why you've added connects, that is why you want to receive more commission, but please remove these dollar signs from your eyes, and think about freelancers and clients!</P>Sat, 27 Jun 2015 10:39:53 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/90481#M41495ilya-kukharev2015-06-27T10:39:53ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91506#M42441
<P>I'm stand for these changes and that's why:&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Being long-term developer, and short-term fixed contractor before that, I understand both good and bad sides of both work methods.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I can say that Upwork have most of it's resources spend on resolving short-term contract conflicts due to either not qualified enough contractor or some light-fingered clients who want Facebook clone for 50$.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>So it's quite logical that Upwork should take more money from short-term people and less from long-term contractors, as on long-term Upwork really doesn't do anything, just taking money, and these money going to resolving shortterm conflicts / paying refunds of another people. Why I should pay for them, if I don't cause Upwork any issues? Let them pay, that I would say.</P>Sun, 28 Jun 2015 12:16:24 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91506#M42441firfi2015-06-28T12:16:24ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91510#M42444
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@Igor L wrote:<BR /><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I can say that Upwork have most of it's resources spend on resolving short-term contract conflicts due to either not qualified enough contractor or some light-fingered clients who want Facebook clone for 50$.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;You can say that, alright, but how do you know Upwork&nbsp;doesn't spend most of its resources rebranding itself, redesigning the site, and fixing&nbsp;new features that don't work properly and in some cases aren't fixed for months? Take Upwork timetracker, for instance. I'm still using the old oDesk team app instead.</P>Sun, 28 Jun 2015 12:41:58 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91510#M42444yitwail2015-06-28T12:41:58ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91512#M42446
<P>That's tricky John, because you can't ensure they do as you say either.</P>Sun, 28 Jun 2015 13:06:09 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91512#M42446astderek2015-06-28T13:06:09ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91521#M42452
<P>I was about to make points along the same line. It is not good to spout statistics without numbers. How much resources does Upwork spend on working out conflicts or disputes? What would be considered average CS effort for a company this size?</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I think many persons are forgetting the numbers game, and the law of averages. Sure larger long term contracts&nbsp;generate more money, however they are fewer in number. The fact is that there are perhaps 50:1 short:long small:large contracts&nbsp;here. Do the math. The only way a point like this would work, is if by getting rid of small short term contracts, this creates more large long term contracts&nbsp;out of thin air to replace those lost - the platform would not make any more money.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>So if it can be proven that these short term contracts&nbsp;are taking up "space" (I&nbsp;don't&nbsp;know how) for more long term large&nbsp;contracts, then get rid of them. More money for everyone. Otherwise it is just more taxation on freelancers earning less.</P>Sun, 28 Jun 2015 13:33:44 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91521#M42452setumonroe2015-06-28T13:33:44ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91544#M42468
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@John K wrote:</BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;You can say that, alright, but how do you know Upwork&nbsp;doesn't spend most of its resources rebranding itself, redesigning the site, and fixing&nbsp;new features that don't work properly and in some cases aren't fixed for months? Take Upwork timetracker, for instance. I'm still using the old oDesk team app instead.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;John,</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I am using Odesk team app as well. The last version as I have seen way to many problems with the new one posted in the forum. Besides if they want me to use the new one one they can prompt me to update my old one but I am not going through the trouble to go download the new one to have the issues I keep seeing.</P>Sun, 28 Jun 2015 16:44:07 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91544#M42468suznee2015-06-28T16:44:07ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91556#M42477
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@Cesar G wrote:<BR /><P>That's tricky John, because you can't ensure they do as you say either.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Cesar,</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Well, no, we can't be sure. On the other hand, complaints about basic site functions</P><UL><LI><SPAN>not working for years</SPAN></LI><LI><SPAN>being reskinned and rebranded rather than being fixed</SPAN></LI><LI><SPAN>being "upgraded" to worse implementations</SPAN></LI></UL><P>are longstanding on Elance and apparently on Upwork. From providers' experience with both platforms, it is common to infer misplaced investment priorities on the part of management.&nbsp;It is an inference both easy and reasonable.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Best,</P><P>Michael</P>Sun, 28 Jun 2015 17:38:31 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91556#M42477researchediting2015-06-28T17:38:31ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91572#M42486
<P>Yes - you should really stand for those changes looks like you were notified when Odesk was turning&nbsp;to Upwork so your work diary hours and frustration part didn't hit your mind's peace.</P><P>Also you may be using some other Message Box of Upwork(only designed for you maybe) during the previous month so your clients communication was working fine . You didn't lose the job , money &nbsp;or client and had not to pay back anything during this course.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>We are keep complaining that things have to be fixed first . But Their concentration is mainly&nbsp;focusing the&nbsp;revenue generation and asking more . &nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Sun, 28 Jun 2015 19:33:20 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91572#M42486faheemkhan5992015-06-28T19:33:20ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91729#M42615
<P>I think there's a solid chance that Jean's hit the nail on the head re: Upwork&nbsp;Enterprise.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>If Upwork can turn Upwork Enterprise into a profitable solution for the company freelancers, and clients by making it an exclusive zone where the clients are worthwhile and the freelancers are actually talented, then - in theory - Upwork can get away with percentage hikes on low-money contracts.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>The plan, presumably, is that the percentage hike kills off the people who lose Upwork money - the low-rate workers, the hacks, the farmers, etc. - people whose income to Upwork is offset by the management and customer services costs they incur. But by making Upwork Enterprise a dream zone for freelancers - one where workers are pretty much guaranteed contracts and pay back lower percentage point - the plan is that talented, useful contractors will stick around on the main site, forking out higher percentages to Upwork&nbsp;and dealing with the general awfulness while they try to claw their way toward an Enterprise invitation.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Upwork now recoups a higher yield off these remaining workers, deals with fewer complaints (since the remaining workers are presumably working harder for the Enterprise invitation, and the problem workers have left), and&nbsp;develops a talent pool for Enterprise, where the quality of worker ensures profitability for Upwork anyways.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>There are three big problems with this gamble:</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>1) The Top Rated program and Job Success scores are clearly going to play a part in Enterprise invitations. There are more than enough examples on this forum about how many problems these two features have created. If Freelancers feel like Enterprise invitations are something of a crapshoot, or a system where legitimate hard work is often left unrewarded, they might say, "Screw this," faster than Upwork&nbsp;is banking on.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>2) The site has been in a much-discussed nosedive for a while. There is a very real chance that Upwork will manage going to kill off any base they have before they ever get around to implementing these new changes.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>3) Freelancers might well decide that the percentage hike isn't worth their shot at Upwork's new golden city.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>There's also the issue that Jean, myself, and others are reading too far into this, and things are supposed to stay pretty much the same, and this is all just a simple attempt to fixed a cost-to-revenue problem on small-money contracts that Upwork&nbsp;truly believes won't cause an exodus of talent.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Anywho, fun times.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Mon, 29 Jun 2015 06:06:17 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/91729#M42615monstersong2015-06-29T06:06:17ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/92149#M42978
<P>I"ve never even heard of Upwork Enterprise.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>What is it and is it something anyone can join?</P>Tue, 30 Jun 2015 01:24:17 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/92149#M42978david_gregory2015-06-30T01:24:17ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/92212#M43022
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />@David G wrote:<BR /><P>I"ve never even heard of Upwork Enterprise.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>What is it and is it something anyone can join?</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P><A href="http://ptc.elance.com/" target="_blank">http://ptc.elance.com/</A></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>You must be invited. Invitation only. I saw this some time ago and many freelancers have already been invited through the different pro groups.</P>Tue, 30 Jun 2015 09:58:59 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/92212#M43022jsutherland2015-06-30T09:58:59ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/92213#M43023
<P>Only seeing this thread now!! I hope this is a late April Fool's joke! 18% is definitely enough to push me away from&nbsp;this site, which I've relied on for a year now!</P>Tue, 30 Jun 2015 10:11:59 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/92213#M43023iaabraham2015-06-30T10:11:59ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/92214#M43024
"Stepford freelancers" the most perfect description of those guys! :'DTue, 30 Jun 2015 10:16:50 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/92214#M43024iaabraham2015-06-30T10:16:50ZRe: Survey (18%fee/Help us make Upwork Better)https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/92216#M43026
<P>It's a large enough fee to be almost funny, yeah. Almost a fifth of what I make on a job? No. Stop being silly upwork, of course you can't have that.</P>Tue, 30 Jun 2015 11:04:18 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Survey-18-fee-Help-us-make-Upwork-Better/m-p/92216#M43026johntatlock2015-06-30T11:04:18Z