The Red Sox are only clearly the best team in AL East to some fans. Thats why we have a board to debate on and in my opinion it's not just offense in CF but also defense at SS and losing a regular lead off hitter that will hurt. I personally don't see us losing good starters in favor of rookies helping us right away.

Thats why I say a year or two if this is the mindset of our FO. There will only be an opening or two (at most) for a SP to brake into our rotation. We have a huge surplus of pitchers which is great but still only a couple reliable every day bats. If the Rays can do it and find a kid like Myers so can we period.

In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

In response to craze4sox's comment:

In response to moonslav59's comment:

In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:

If you want to get a full view of the offseason report card, you must include these little solid moves as well into your calculation. This season was about tweaking the team and not rebuilding it and I think the Sox did a lot of small quiet moves that go under the radar. I know you said major moves, but I do not expect any more major moves... so I'm bringing up these transactions.

The Sox continue to add arms everywhere but are still reluctant to make a trade for a future centerpiece which we can certainly do without hurting our cause. Outside of pitching we are losing/moving average prospects for more average prospects.

Again, as of today anyway we should have a decent season but will be lucky to make the PS unless Bogy, JBJ and especially Middy pull off some sort of miracle and our top three players stay off the DL. We no longer have reliable every day depth and may not for another year or two if this is our plan.

Who makes it in over them? Again with the wild claims and little analysis.

moon,

Any number of teams in the East or West if they remain healthy. Last season I predicted at least 88 wins and a playoff spot if we stayed healthy because our combination of every day talent and platoon depth was solid. You predicted we would be a game or two over 500. I'm basing my 2014 based on the same premise. The difference being is this time I don't feel we have enough talent as we stand today.

This could always change before the start of the season. Bogy and company won't play as solid defense as Drew in his first season. Middy is Middy and JBJ won't come close in my opinion to match Jacoby's presence on the team offensively.

what exactly does "Middy is Middy" mean?

I ask this because we have seen a kid who can be a 280BA 320OBP 500SLG with 30HR power and weve also seen a young player who went through some struggles that kids can go through as well as growing some, mature wise. All while suffering 2 significant injuries (broken wrist, separated ribs) which affected his performance both offensively and defensively.

I think he will be a solid contributer this coming year.

270BA 315OBP 490SLG with 25HR and about 150K's and good D at 3b.

What I meant was Middy has no patience. His rookie season was a decent one but (like Jacoby's 30 HR year) this is the major league and pitchers adjust. Middy has the talent if he can lay off balls that almost every pitcher knows he will chase out of the zone. It's no longer about his rookie season but how much time he continues to spend on the DL and plate discipline. Middy needs to bat 265/275 while raising his OBP to around 325/335 and hit 25/30HR's in my opinion to help our cause. The only thing that makes a player like Nap's 25 HR's valuable offensively is his OBP. I said this about Salty for three years but even though he finally raised his OBP, his defense and salary still made him expendable.

I would love to see all three kids succeed but at the moment we lost defense at SS, our lead off hitter and offense in CF which in my opinion will set the team back. We also stayed healthy for the most part last season which will be even more important this season. I don't feel we will be in the championship hunt this season without further upgrades but could have a promising future in a year or two.

This is annoying part you keeps saying in a couple years. What moves do they need to make other than find some way to get production out of CF? Other than the Yankees what moves did the rest of the division make? What is going to be the starting rotation for the Yankees? Does trading Price make the Rays a better team?

The Red Sox are still clearly the best team in the AL East right now if you look at it rationally. I believe since you can't further expand upon your thoughts you are not able or willing to do so.

This is why we have a board to debate these issues. Some of you predicted we wouldn't even make the playoffs last season yet some of those same fans think we will be the best team in the East next season just because we won the WS. Not how it works, you don't lose your leadoff hitter, weaken the offense in CF or defense at SS and predict the same or better results. It's called a learning curve which our kids will have next season.

in which a kid has an opportunity to break into the rotation. This is where the Rays can look past losing Shields and Price but still end up with Myers and others to compete every year. Yes I do feel the Rays will make another smart trade for Price at some point and not lose a beat.

We have the fan base, prospects, SP's and cash but still have yet to land a Stanton or prospect like Myers in a much more needed position.

Bogaerts should be a star with the bat and his learning curve was the WS. He handled himself pretty well. He will put up Hanley like numbers. That is your big time bat like Myers. He will also do it at SS. I would expect big things out of him. I would argue he is a bigger prospect than Myers. Bradley is all honest is not going to be the starting CF this year, they will add a CFer. But your agruement is that the loss of Ellsbury is bigger than Price, who has basically been told he will be traded. so much bigger that Ellsbury is worth 6 more games to the Red Sox than Price is to the Rays. I just don't see that. Having a healthy Buchholz and Peavy for the year is a big deal. Also the new arms in the bullpen will be worth a few wins. So the pitching is better.

we have as good a chance as any to make the WS in 2014. I'm not sure I'd call us the favorite, but we should be highly competitive

Great points as always, Moon. The above is how I feel as well...which I think is all you can really ask until the games actually start. If recent seasons have proven anything, it's that there's no such thing as a "favorite" in December. We will roll into ST with a few question marks, but so will most every team.

In particular, I think the main problem Craze speaks of - not having acquired a "centerpiece" - is vastly overstated. I for one think Bogaerts will be that kind of player for us...maybe not immediately, but Myers (cited above as the type of player sought) had, if anything, less of a track record coming into last season than Xander does now.

we have as good a chance as any to make the WS in 2014. I'm not sure I'd call us the favorite, but we should be highly competitive

Great points as always, Moon. The above is how I feel as well...which I think is all you can really ask until the games actually start. If recent seasons have proven anything, it's that there's no such thing as a "favorite" in December. We will roll into ST with a few question marks, but so will most every team.

In particular, I think the main problem Craze speaks of - not having acquired a "centerpiece" - is vastly overstated. I for one think Bogaerts will be that kind of player for us...maybe not immediately, but Myers (cited above as the type of player sought) had, if anything, less of a track record coming into last season than Xander does now.

I really don't understand how Myers is great prospect but Bogaerts isn't. The fact he plays a tougher position, is younger, and is a similar type of hitter would make me value him more.

I would love to see all three kids succeed but at the moment we lost defense at SS and offense in CF which in my opinion will set the team back. We also stayed healthy for the most part last season which will be even more important this season. Not in the championship hunt this season without further upgrades but could have a promising future in a year or two.

Health will be a big key, as with every team, but I really think a full season of Buchholz and Peavy is like signing a top FA starting pitcher.

I also think we could see a plus on offense at SS and defense in CF.

"Middy is Middy" but it's hard to imagine worse 3B numbers than our team had in 2013:

.242/.288/.395/.683

I'm looking for Pedey to have a career or near career season at age 30. Just having a career average season would add 35 points to his 2013 number and possibly and partially help offset the loss on offense in CF.

Gomes way underperformed vs LHPs in 2013. He was one of MLB's best hitters vs LHPs for the previous 3-4 years. A true L/R platoon in LF could give us a significant improvement over 2013's .790 LF OPS.

Yes, there are a lot of could haves and might haves here, and I realize a lot went right this year, but I really think if we have the same amount of injuries and unexpected declines as Detroit, NYY, TBR, Toronto, Texas, and other teams, we have as good a chance as any to make the WS in 2014. I'm not sure I'd call us the favorite, but we should be highly competitive.

This is still a top 5 line-up:

1) Victorino

2) Pedroia

3) Ortiz

4) Napoli

5) Nava/Gomes

6) Middlebrooks

7) Bogaerts

8) Pierzynski

9) Bradley

Couple that with perhaps the best bullpen in MLB and a starting rotation that could replace this for that:

2013; 44 GS'd

29 Dempster 4.64/ 1.453

7 Webster 8.59/ 1.807

6 Aceves 4.45/ 1.780

2 Wright/Morales 7.50/ 1.350

Replace with...

+ 14 GS Buch (from 16 GS'd to 30 GS'd?)

+ 20 GS Peavy (from 10 to 30?)

+10 GS from Workman or others

There's a huge potential here for massive gains.

Yes, if, if, if.... but that's the same with the Yanks, Tigers, ...

Pitching is no longer our issue moon as it was for years against teams like the Rays. Now we are the Rays so why not pull off a similar trade for a Myers or Stanton type player while Papi is still with the club not after he goes on the DL or retires. David Price won't be any different, the Rays will pull off another great deal.

SP's and especially the pen, with Miller coming back is so deep we could easily pull off a hufe trade and not miss a beat moving forward.

IB Napoli, if he goes down very little defense in Nava or Carp.

3B Middy, a lot to prove with Checchini in the wings who may be a better hitter at some point but horrible 3B at this point. Snyder, Holt etc? Forget it!

DH, Papi, can't be replaced with anyone period. David is by far our best all round hitter along with Pede.

SS Bogy, will probably have a learning curve for a year or two defensively. No solid backup who impacts the lineup significantly. I big rookie season offensively could really help erase a few weaknesses elsewhere.

RF, Victorino (like Papi) also can't be replaced long term and is probably our best every day leadoff option. Pede can't leadoff and Nava is a platoon player like Gomes with no speed.

CF JBJ, or Victorino if he struggles leaving us with a lesser platoon player at each corner. Again, more than likely less offense than Jacoby would have supplied.

LF Nava and Gomes, a solid every day platoon if they don't need to fill in anywhere else, otherwise no depth unless a guy like Brentz can help.

C, No worries whatsover with Ross, AJ and Lav

2B Pede, no worries unless he gets hurt then again he simply can't be replaced with the same results.

In small sample sizes, Bogey looked pretty cool under pressure during the playoffs as he was playing out of position. Myers looked a bit like a deer in the headlights at times, but both look to be excellent ML'ers.

Bogaerts should be a star with the bat and his learning curve was the WS.

[/QUOTE]

Really, so Bogaerts learning curve was playing 3B not SS and only seeing one or two teams pitching all season? Doubt it, but I feel he will have a good rookie season and great career.

As far as the Rays go moon and I went back and fourth on them for a couple of years. I always felt the Rays couldn't recover after losing the likes of Garza, Shields and eventually Price because of their normally weak lineup. As it's turned out players have had career years for them while other young pitchers picked up the slack. This is what keeps the Rays in the mix along with having a great manager, making intelligent trades and signing key FA's with very little money or fan support. Price isn't traded yet and the Rays really don't need to right now but my guess is they continue to contend regardless.

In small sample sizes, Bogey looked pretty cool under pressure during the playoffs as he was playing out of position. Myers looked a bit like a deer in the headlights at times, but both look to be excellent ML'ers.

JBJ was much more than a deer in the headlights offensively and also struggled at times defensively. Something he really needs to work on if fans feel he can make a dent as a leadoff hitter at some point, not to mention score 92 runs, hit 300 and steal 50 bases. Bogy may have been playing his best position did you ever think of it that way moon? Bet you have, I'm still not sold on him as SS but the FO knows best.

My grade for the offseason so far......I for incomplete. They really cannot be done. They have too many pitchers, and a couple of holes in the lineup/field. They really need to move at least one starter one platoon OF(Gomes or Carp)and one RP for an starting OF that can play RF or CF. As of now they will lose/cut/DFA guys that will go to other teams for little to no compensation. That means I do not think they are done. The are quite a bit weaker on O, about even on D, and stronger on P then last start of spring training. With a small amount of tweeking they will improve the O and D by trading P spots that will not make the roster anyhow.

we have as good a chance as any to make the WS in 2014. I'm not sure I'd call us the favorite, but we should be highly competitive

Great points as always, Moon. The above is how I feel as well...which I think is all you can really ask until the games actually start. If recent seasons have proven anything, it's that there's no such thing as a "favorite" in December. We will roll into ST with a few question marks, but so will most every team.

In particular, I think the main problem Craze speaks of - not having acquired a "centerpiece" - is vastly overstated. I for one think Bogaerts will be that kind of player for us...maybe not immediately, but Myers (cited above as the type of player sought) had, if anything, less of a track record coming into last season than Xander does now.

flapjack my 2014 prediction has nothing to do with aquiring a centerpiece. It's based strictly on our present talent, inexperience at several positions and overall depth. My wanting a centerpiece is based on the Red Sox counting on Papi each and every year, if he goes down so does our season. Bogy could certainly get to that point I agree.

I also realize we can only start 5 or 6 pitchers each year and have one or two high priced ones who could be packaged to better balance the farm or our present team.

I really don't understand how Myers is great prospect but Bogaerts isn't. The fact he plays a tougher position, is younger, and is a similar type of hitter would make me value him more.

[/QUOTE]

I never said Bogy won't be as good or better than Myers, or that he won't eventually be a great centerpiece. All I said was we have a much better opportunity now, before Peavy or Lackey's contracts expire, or they begin to struggle and have little value.

Package one of them now along with a couple prospects who may never find a place in our organization for one that might.

My grade for the offseason so far......I for incomplete. They really cannot be done. They have too many pitchers, and a couple of holes in the lineup/field. They really need to move at least one starter one platoon OF(Gomes or Carp)and one RP for an starting OF that can play RF or CF. As of now they will lose/cut/DFA guys that will go to other teams for little to no compensation. That means I do not think they are done. The are quite a bit weaker on O, about even on D, and stronger on P then last start of spring training. With a small amount of tweeking they will improve the O and D by trading P spots that will not make the roster anyhow.

In small sample sizes, Bogey looked pretty cool under pressure during the playoffs as he was playing out of position. Myers looked a bit like a deer in the headlights at times, but both look to be excellent ML'ers.

JBJ was much more than a deer in the headlights offensively and also struggled at times defensively. Something he really needs to work on if fans feel he can make a dent as a leadoff hitter at some point, not to mention score 92 runs, hit 300 and steal 50 bases. Bogy may have been playing his best position did you ever think of it that way moon? Bet you have, I'm still not sold on him as SS but the FO knows best.

I have been saying Bogey should be moved to 3B sooner than later for about 2 years. He could have used some practice there last year before being thrown to the fire.

Yes, JBJ looked like that proverbial deer last year, but I am a far way from giving up on him.

Craze, I understand where you are at. I've thought we've needed that big bat behind Papi for several years, but if 2013 taught us anything, it should be that balance, depth and to some extent character can win as well.

I liked Beltran, but his best defensive position (LF with Boston) didn't fit our immediate top needs. I know losing Ellsbury will be hard to make -up, but who'd have thought we could have won this year without Buchholz most of the way?

In small sample sizes, Bogey looked pretty cool under pressure during the playoffs as he was playing out of position. Myers looked a bit like a deer in the headlights at times, but both look to be excellent ML'ers.

JBJ was much more than a deer in the headlights offensively and also struggled at times defensively. Something he really needs to work on if fans feel he can make a dent as a leadoff hitter at some point, not to mention score 92 runs, hit 300 and steal 50 bases. Bogy may have been playing his best position did you ever think of it that way moon? Bet you have, I'm still not sold on him as SS but the FO knows best.

I have been saying Bogey should be moved to 3B sooner than later for about 2 years. He could have used some practice there last year before being thrown to the fire.

Yes, JBJ looked like that proverbial deer last year, but I am a far way from giving up on him.

Craze, I understand where you are at. I've thought we've needed that big bat behind Papi for several years, but if 2013 taught us anything, it should be that balance, depth and to some extent character can win as well.

I liked Beltran, but his best defensive position (LF with Boston) didn't fit our immediate top needs. I know losing Ellsbury will be hard to make -up, but who'd have thought we could have won this year without Buchholz most of the way?

moon,

I liked Beltran but Junior Lake even better, probably at a lower cost because he manhandles lefties with a .956 OPS. Trading for Lake would have given us insurance in RF, DH or possibly other positions if needed with at least adequate defense. It also would have allowed Victorino to slide over to CF when needed to help the kid.

I'm not giving up on Bradley either and feel he should be fine just not right away. It also wouldn't be fair to expect the world from him next season like many fans did after a strong ST last season. As far as losing Buchholz after the great start? It's almost expected from me as a Sox fan each year as I'm sure it is our FO. I never would have thought Lester would start off so well, nose dive then become an ace in the PS for us. Lackey pitched great and I also thought Miller going down would hurt us more. Guys like Workman, Britton, Peavy and Breslow gave us some nice innings down the stretch so it was truly a team WS win.

I'm fine with growing pains the next couple of seasons as long as guys like Middy, Bogy and JBJ truly do become important parts of our future. Our FO did a great job reacting to and addressing poor performances so I have to trust they will again. I just feel we have the means to take some stress off Papi and reduce the growing pains by aquiring another solid bat. We probably should while guys like Peavy and Lackey still have trade value and it would certainly cost us less prospects packaged around a veteran SP. If we are going to take a chance on the kids why not stretch that into the starting rotation with a Workman/Dempster trial if it could land us another big piece of the puzzle?

I feel Ryan Braun will more than prove himself next season. Can you imagine what a veteran well rounded bat like his could mean to our club through 2019/2020, especially until the kids really begin to hit their stride? The Brewers won't get any better by keeping their best player but could take a nice step foward if we offered them the right package of prospects and a SP. Another younger option is Stanton but hes injury prone and a poor OF, not to mention the Marlins would probably want younger prospects including Doubront rather than a veteran (high priced) SP in a package.