tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post116856926352154033..comments2017-12-13T16:53:20.417-05:00Comments on Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Did Luther Recant on His Deathbed?James Swanhttps://plus.google.com/108268509304808559079noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-1168944639673275092007-01-16T05:50:00.000-05:002007-01-16T05:50:00.000-05:00Ray- here is a partial look at the book: Luther li...Ray- here is a partial look at the book: <A HREF="http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0719068029&id=2mBC3no0kZoC&pg=PP1&lpg=PP1&ots=ZXtGiavrZ4&dq=luther+lives&sig=RsRJQVEudO5eFu6G4eETiYrzj9I#PPP7,M1" REL="nofollow">Luther lives</A>James Swanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16136781934797867593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-1168918362856115352007-01-15T22:32:00.000-05:002007-01-15T22:32:00.000-05:00umm... I cited this book in this very blog post! I...<I>umm... I cited this book in this very blog post! It's an interesting read- as it is a book written by an enemy of Luther, and also a contemporary of Luther, Johannes Cochlaeus. If I recall, Luther used to call him "Snot nose"...and i'm not kidding.</I><BR/><BR/>Mea culpa, Jim. I must have overlooked the cite. It isn't surprising that I did, considering my "hit and run" way of reading from the WWW these days ;-)<BR/><BR/>Peace,<BR/>RayChurchmousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13521990026485330450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-1168647326652545382007-01-12T19:15:00.000-05:002007-01-12T19:15:00.000-05:00Since everyone is posting about "death-bed" experi...Since everyone is posting about "death-bed" experiences of famous(infamous) people, it is interesting to note that the Lutheran(catholic) perspective on the Lord's Supper is such a story. That is to say, the Last Will & Testament of our Lord Jesus Christ was that believers continue to partake of His body and blood in with and under the elements of bread and wine - frequently, for the remission of sins. I mention this since so many Protestant denominations understand this meal as merely a memorial meal whereby they show their good works of obedience rather than receive their inheritance from Christ.<BR/><BR/>Frank MarronFM483https://www.blogger.com/profile/13411695583172250841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-1168639338309955632007-01-12T17:02:00.000-05:002007-01-12T17:02:00.000-05:00My fav is the time I heard a Christian witnessing ...My fav is the time I heard a Christian witnessing to two people in a Borders Bookstore, and he mentioned that even Charles Darwin recanted evolution on his deathbed. I had been listening to this conversation, and finally had to go over and mention this wasn't true.James Swanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16136781934797867593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-1168634801947169582007-01-12T15:46:00.000-05:002007-01-12T15:46:00.000-05:00Personally, I find it unlikely that those who were...Personally, I find it unlikely that those who were close enough to Luther in life that they should be with him upon his death, would misreport his last words and prayers. I suspect the conversion story is likely a religious version of an urban myth. The story might have root in some actual person's life and death--after all, deathbed recantations or conversions are possible; and such stories (as Mr. Swan notes) tend to inspire. Inspiring stories are often recast with easily understood players. After all, one will recognize who ML was and what he believed without much introduction, whereas "my friend's cousin, Sid" requires additional background information if the point of the story is to be made.<BR/><BR/>I've heard variations. One has Voltare recant humanism in his dying moments. The latest account setting I've heard has a semi-famous minister-turned-foul-mouthed-stand-up-comic talking to invisible angels as he repents while dying after an auto crash.<BR/><BR/>How many variations of the "new convernts of formerly Satanic group or man-eating tribe ask a [fill in: missionary / evangelist] why his chidren listen to the same music they use to call upon [fill in: demon / false god]--only to have the [fill in: missionary / evangelist] discover his kids listening to the (fill in: Phil Keaggy / Stryper / Pat Boone] tape he gave them for Christmas" story have you heard? <BR/><BR/>I'm unsure what point I'm getting to other than to remind us all to use caution when retelling accounts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-1168632115967846862007-01-12T15:01:00.000-05:002007-01-12T15:01:00.000-05:00Mr. Churchmouse:I did get curious after reading yo...Mr. Churchmouse:<BR/><BR/><I>I did get curious after reading your latest post and found this book: http://www.amazon.com/Luthers-Lives-Contemporary-Accounts-Martin/dp/0719068029 I don't know if you've heard of it, but this is what it states under "book description</I><BR/><BR/>umm... I cited this book in this very blog post! It's an interesting read- as it is a book written by an enemy of Luther, and also a contemporary of Luther, Johannes Cochlaeus. If I recall, Luther used to call him "Snot nose"...and i'm not kidding.James Swanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16136781934797867593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-1168625074189014502007-01-12T13:04:00.000-05:002007-01-12T13:04:00.000-05:00Growing up in a strict Catholic family, my dad wou...Growing up in a strict Catholic family, my dad would tell me stories of how Luther was racked by pain in his final moments, crying out to God to forgive him of the sins against he committed against His Church, those present looking in horror as he screamed out that the demons were dragging him away. It isn't uncommon to hear these urban legends being professed by the Catholic faithful, but I did get curious after reading your latest post and found this book: http://www.amazon.com/Luthers-Lives-Contemporary-Accounts-Martin/dp/0719068029 I don't know if you've heard of it, but this is what it states under "book description:<BR/><BR/><I>This volume brings together two important contemporary accounts of the life of Martin Luther in a confrontation that had been postponed for more than 450 years. <B>The first of these accounts was written after Luther's death, when it was rumoured that demons had seized the reformer on his deathbed and dragged him off to Hell.</B> In response to these rumours, Luther's friend and colleague, Philip Melanchthon, wrote and published a brief encomium of the reformer in 1548. A completely new translation of this text appears in this book.<BR/><BR/>It was in response to Melanchthon's work that Johannes Cochlaeus completed and published his own monumental life of Luther in 1549, which is translated and made available in English for the first time in this volume.</I><BR/><BR/>That kind of blew my mind. A rumor that persisted way back then would still be promulgated today. And by my dad, no less! Nevertheless, it seems that those who hate my Brother Martin would feed these rumors to the point that these Catholic "oral traditions" and other legends persist even until today.<BR/><BR/>Peace,<BR/>RayChurchmousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13521990026485330450noreply@blogger.com