~Hey doc -- what is an "overhead railroad?" And, when you think of "Disney Springs" don't you envision, fresh frozen custard with caramel from the farm. It sounds wholesome & countrified in a good way.

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I've heard the Disney Springs name equated with thoughts of a retirement center. But supposedly it may just be the "working name" for plans and that the real name will be revealed later. Not sure about the train though. Supposedly the common theme that will run throughout DTD has to do with trains. But no real trains yet. The long-ago rumored trolley that would run from one end to the other is not present in what has been leaked so far.

at city walk all the clubs are situated on the upper level and separate from the restaurants. west side is doing ok because of the restaurants and now splitsville and disney does need something for adults at night. I think however they want third party ownership like splitville and atlantic dancehall.

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PI was a concept predicated on the notion that those attracted to a family oriented environment would flock to an adult respite.

It turned out the demand for that wasn't nearly as large as anticipated, so to increase the traffic admission was removed. That caused the local riff-raff to arrive and PI soon became known as the easiest place at WDW to find trouble (car break ins, drugs, etc). By then it was clear to the more astute observers that the end was coming, and it did.

So I can understand the remorse over the loss of the good things there, like the AC, but as a prior poster stated, once Disney kills something it isn't coming back.

PI was a concept predicated on the notion that those attracted to a family oriented environment would flock to an adult respite.

It turned out the demand for that wasn't nearly as large as anticipated, so to increase the traffic admission was removed. That caused the local riff-raff to arrive and PI soon became known as the easiest place at WDW to find trouble (car break ins, drugs, etc). By then it was clear to the more astute observers that the end was coming, and it did.

So I can understand the remorse over the loss of the good things there, like the AC, but as a prior poster stated, once Disney kills something it isn't coming back.

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It was extremely successful for 10 - 15 years. It was less successful once they stopped investing in it. I remember when it was worth the price of admission for the entertainment on the street never mind going into the clubs.

How does opening up the street for through traffic make it easier to break into cars that are still parked in the same place as they were before?

I did hear more about less than desirable activities in the past few years of its existence, but I also noticed less security. My observations may not be accurate.

I think it had totally to do with the following

1) They started cutting corners on maintenance and entertainment (so fewer of-age locals wanted to go)
2) They opened up the street for through traffic(which lead to people complaining about the drinking)
3) They went from length of stay passes to MYW. When MYW first was introduced you only got 5 visits on a 7 day ticket. So if you went to Disney quest and a water park you only had three left for PI. When with length of stay you could go to as many water parks, Disney quest and PI visits as you wanted for the length of your stay. I believe this lead to fewer onsite guests going to PI.
4) Disney does not want to operate the venues at DTD.(They have yet to catch up on the hidden costs of outsourcing)

I've only heard anecdotes about the "riff-raff". However, when they opened it up, it meant the public could roam the formerly sequestered area - perhaps making the patrons easier targets.

The reason I've always heard for opening it up was that there was a serious traffic flow problem between Marketplace and West Side...in fact the only way between them was a long narrow sidewalk that went out around Planet Hollywood, etc. by the parking lot.

In our "rookie" years, we went to DTD and PI several times, but we always parked on the West Side end...and we never even saw the Marketplace side (always ended up at the AC on PI...)

To open it up, they had to get rid of the general admission, and went to a per-club (or multi-club) ticket model - and I think that limited people a lot more on where they went. Plus the complaints started when "families" were walking through from West Side to Marketplace and vice versa about the drunks, etc. They existed before, but they were sequestered except when leaving.

I think when they started looking at the accounting for each individual club, it showed numbers that weren't good for some of them.

Then, in the end, they didn't want to bother. They hoped to get third parties to take over the locations, but that didn't happen. So they closed.

What is interesting about the new "plans" is that it solves the major reason PI was opened up - but it doesn't mean it can close again either, because there are restaurants and shops that would not want to be sequestered as adults-only venues with limited hours. But it might enable options...

1) Disney built the West Side
2) People weren't travelling between West Side and marketplace
3) Disney opened PI to allow people to walk through
4) Families and revelers interacted, making PI less desirable. It also hurt business not making it an "exclusive" area.
5) In addition, they did nothing to revitalize the clubs. (Nightclubs more than any place else have a "shelf-life", but this could've been easily done by doing some dress-up work on one or two clubs a year. Certain clubs, such as AC and 8-Trax wouldn't need it, but others did.)
6) Every "fix" Disney did just made things worse for PI, until they finally closed it.

I personally miss AC much more than the rest of PI, but I really want them to return to having an area for adults. I can't understand how stupid they were to eliminate nightlife completely. The up-charge on alcohol is ridiculous, they have a built-in system of "free rides for drunks" on property, as well as the CM who would readily pump their income back into Disney.

My hope, if this plan does come to fruition, is that they are looking at it as a two-fer area. Perhaps the "Landing" area has restuarants during the day, but after say 9 PM becomes a 21-and-older area with clubs and bars.

I've heard the Disney Springs name equated with thoughts of a retirement center. But supposedly it may just be the "working name" for plans and that the real name will be revealed later. Not sure about the train though. Supposedly the common theme that will run throughout DTD has to do with trains. But no real trains yet. The long-ago rumored trolley that would run from one end to the other is not present in what has been leaked so far.

Atlantic Dance Hall is actually owned and operated by Disney.

BobK/Orlando

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~This is so funny! I really hadn't thought of it in that way, but you are so right -- "Disney Springs" does sound more like a retirement home! I hope they change it. I am more confused than ever about the proposed plans, but still hopeful -- DTD can't get any worse at this point.

My hope, if this plan does come to fruition, is that they are looking at it as a two-fer area. Perhaps the "Landing" area has restuarants during the day, but after say 9 PM becomes a 21-and-older area with clubs and bars.

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I agree with your entire post about PI's downfall, but why would DTD need more adult-oriented full service restaurants at lunch? The ones they have right now are hardly full. Same goes for dinner 46 our of 52 weeks in the year.

Perhaps the "Landing" area has restaurants during the day, but after say 9 PM becomes a 21-and-older area with clubs and bars.

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With the DTD expansion allowing The Landing to be off by itself again, I could see this as a realistic option. I don't think the two outsourced restaurants currently on the Island (Raglan Road, Paradiso 37) would mind considering after 10pm they really don't have a younger clientele anyway. Of the two retail outlets on the Island, one is moving to the West Side shortly and the other was supposed to be temporary and could easily move to a new location off the Island. So such a thing is definitely plausible.

~This is so funny! I really hadn't thought of it in that way, but you are so right -- "Disney Springs" does sound more like a retirement home! I hope they change it.

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I really hope they keep the Downtown Disney name. No other name can equally describe what the place is. And the name Downtown Disney by itself generates excitement. No other name will be able to do that either.

What's interesting from the logo board is that is isn't just a bunch of well known logos tossed up. There are actually placeholders for non-specific stuff, like "Italian Restaurant" and "Wine Bar". If this were a fake, I'd expect something like "Olive Garden" or something like that to be there instead.

But..."DisneyBurger"?!?

I'm hearing that Pollo Campero and BabyCakes may be on the way out too...

What's interesting from the logo board is that is isn't just a bunch of well known logos tossed up. There are actually placeholders for non-specific stuff, like "Italian Restaurant" and "Wine Bar". If this were a fake, I'd expect something like "Olive Garden" or something like that to be there instead.

But..."DisneyBurger"?!?

I'm hearing that Pollo Campero and BabyCakes may be on the way out too...

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I posted an article several weeks ago about Pollo Campero leaving. Someone else noticed that it's current building is not on the leaked plans. Of course, it might just be moving, not leaving.

Yes, a number of "placeholder" names on that board. You have to remember that that logo board is not a final listing and we don't know who will actually be in the final cut. But I do think it's likely pretty accurate though.

DisneyBurger could be good, if they don't because of the One Disney concept use the same burgers they use in the parks!

Regardless of the details, I'm convinced that this is A Good Thing. With the major redesign comes an opportunity for expanded evening/adult activities sequestered somewhere that won't create traffic flow issues.

So much for Iger's "no major capital projects in the near future" assertion, eh?