Can we talk? There's an unhinged crazy man in the white house. Alt right slob Steve Bannon is writing ill conceived, horribly implemented and legally flawed executive orders with a crayon. The president has demonstrated such a weak minded obsession with his loss in the popular vote and his anemic inauguration crowd as to discuss it with a group of CIA agents in front of their wall of honor and also in a closed door meeting with a bipartisan group of senators.

He has repeatedly taunted Arnold Schwarzenegger about the ratings of "apprentice" including asking the associated religious leaders at the national prayer breakfast to pray for Arnold's ratings.There was not one bit of laughter from the audience, just uncomfortable silence. The zinger from Arnold was priceless offering to trade jobs so people could sleep comfortably again(indeed).I read today that Arnold said his first instinct was to travel to DC and "smash his face into a table" Id pay to see that frankly.

He pissed off the president of our 3rd largest trading partner Mexico so badly that he cancelled a scheduled meeting. He abruptly hung up on the Australian prime minister a half hour into a scheduled 1 hour conversation after refusing an invitation by the prime minister to pivot to other security matters rather than continue arguing over 1250 refugees. He ended the conversation saying it was "his worst call of the day by far". He erupted on twitter beginning before 5 AM (like most days) to call the respected judge who stayed his immigration ban a "so called Judge".

And for me the cherry on top were his strangely cordial comments regarding Putin, how much he respects him and wants to work with him. When interviewer O'reilly pointed out Putin is a killer his response was"there's a lot of killers. we have a lot of killers. Do you think America is so innocent?" What happened to making america great dude? Only a complete POS or a guy who knows there's a really nasty film of citizen Trump in Putin's possession would act this way.

Trump is acting like a spoiled ADHD 5th grade brat.The tweeting is totally out of control. Everything is fake news is the defense line by the WH for anyone reporting on this fiasco. Conway and Spicer lie almost every time they are on the air. There is no fig leaf of pretense about divesting from or separating himself from his business ties all over the world.

Recent polling shows 40% of americans favor impeaching him right now and 12% are not sure. His popularity is underwater far worse than any man ever at this stage of his administration since polling began.

I have a suggestion for the Republican congress. Sit down with the democrats and trade confirmation of the SCOTUS nominee to then begin impeachment proceedings against Trump. Pence can fly the plane and conservatives will get everything they wanted when they foolishly nominated this ass clown without the nation being in dire peril.If Ginsberg retires or croaks Pence will appoint another conservative.

My biggest problem with him by far are his overt Russian sympathies and even outright admiration. It disgusts me that a sitting American President could openly profess to be a greater admirer of our enemy than our own country.

"I'm actually incredulous that the president would make a statement like that, "One could argue that's the most anti-American statement ever made by the president of the United States."

"To confuse American values with Putin, who's running a criminal oligarchy, who kills people abroad and at home, who imprisons journalists and takes away business property, who shares it with his former KGB agents, who invades and seizes Crimea and eastern Ukraine — this is an astonishing state of affairs."

c_hawkbob wrote:My biggest problem with him by far are his overt Russian sympathies and even outright admiration. It disgusts me that a sitting American President could openly profess to be a greater admirer of our enemy than our own country.

My biggest problem with him so far is his travel ban and overall immigration policy. Like so many other things he's done, it was not well thought out and was implemented in a very haphazard manner. I'm a supporter of tougher laws and procedures regarding entry into our country, but he clearly is making this a religious test. And he needs to stay off Twitter and act like the POTUS.

Having said that, I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with the courts getting involved in this travel ban. Dislike him as many of us do, he's still the Commander in Chief and has a sworn obligation to take what ever action he deems necessary to protect the health and welfare of its citizens. I don't mind them stepping in and allowing those that were in transit and with current visas and green cards to come in, but they have no business interfering with the ban in general. Who are the courts to say that there isn't an eminent risk?

Obviously these Federal Judges including the one in Seattle appointed by GW and ratified 99-0 by the congress have the authority to issue the stay.And the 9th circuit sounded very skeptical of the justice departments argument to overturn the stay of the order. Trumps many comments about Muslims and his comments about favoring Christians over Muslim refugees from these countries has created ammunition for those in the Judiciary and the 99 high tech companies who oppose this ban as a religious litmus test clearly prohibited by the US constitution. To me the most unsettling aspect is his continual criticism to the point of mocking and degrading the judges. After his comments about the "so called judge" in Seattle he once again this morning dived back into the controversy in a meeting with the National Sheriffs Association, beginning his 20 minute speech by saying that a "bad high school student would rule in my favor" on the executive order and that was "sad" that these judges cannot.In a meeting with border agents and law enforcement yesterday he responed to a sherrifs complaint about a Texas state senator who opposed his actions by asking for the senators name and saying "we will destroy his career".

Its a Nixonian attack on the federal judiciary that may soon lead to a constitutional crisis.He has the right to launch nukes too but one would hope he is competent enough to know when to hold them and when to fold them and I havent seen any disgression at all so far.

RD we all want security and vetting of refugees from hotbeds of islamic terror but the ham fisted and utterly incompetent rollout of this overbroad order was why it is being blocked.As for "imminent danger" its very disingenuous to say these nations have produced terror attacks in the united states as statistics say they haven't for the overwhelmingly greatest part. Places like Qatar and Saudi Arabia, Turkey etc have no ban despite terrorists emanating from their countries but he has business interests in their countries so not a peep.Russia is an imminent danger and we see how Trump views that situation. The WH spokesman's embarrassing list of terrorist attacks not covered by the press include San Bernardino, Orlando, and the attack on Charlie Hebdo satirical cartoon magazine and are ridiculous on their face, utter fantasy land.IMO these received far too much coverage and glorify Islamic martyrs.One purported knife attack in Europe killing 2 people was determined to be a mentally deranged man by authourities and parents of the victims have fired off angry complaints to the WH not to use their childrens deaths for political purposes. Kellyanne Conway's repeated references to the "masterminds of the bowling green massacre" is 100 % false.

Only an idiot glued to Faux news 24/7 would see this administration as even remotely honest and its only the 3rd week.

Its what I thought would happen after taking the measure of the man a year and it has to a greater degree than I imagined. I didn't want to be right and I hope to still be proven wrong but this 70 year old low information stubborn combative man is not going to change IMO. Americas standing in the world will be the casualty.

I think I've made clear my disdain for DT, but this is *not* a religious test, and he's going to win when, inevitably, the 9th Circuit upholds the stay (as they predictably will) and the SCOTUS strikes it (as they so frequently do to the 9thC decisions- the 9C are frcking loons- but also for the reason described below).

You have to test for a religion for it to be a religious test, and he's simply putting a temporary hold on immigration from 7 countries marked as 'failed states' (at least as far as vetting refugees goes) by a previous administration- something so well within the Executive's power it's embarrassing it's come this far.

Also, even the adolescents at Vox acknowledge the 7 countries are not as purely "Muslim" as some of the leftist nuts describe.

It's gonna stand, and in 90 days the review will be over, and the world will continue to orbit the sun.

Like so many other things he's done, it was not well thought out and was implemented in a very haphazard manner.

THIS we agree on. It was rolled out like a rank amateur.

However, as Scalia used to wish for a stamp to say, "STUPID BUT CONSTITUTIONAL".

You may not *like* that he's able to do this, you may think it's a useless step and poorly implemented, but it's still within his authority to do it. Find something useful to hit him on.

burrrton wrote:I think I've made clear my disdain for DT, but this is *not* a religious test, and he's going to win when, inevitably, the 9th Circuit upholds the stay (as they predictably will) and the SCOTUS strikes it (as they so frequently do to the 9thC decisions- the 9C are frcking loons- but also for the reason described below).

You have to test for a religion for it to be a religious test, and he's simply putting a temporary hold on immigration from 7 countries marked as 'failed states' (at least as far as vetting refugees goes) by a previous administration- something so well within the Executive's power it's embarrassing it's come this far.

Also, even the adolescents at Vox acknowledge the 7 countries are not as purely "Muslim" as some of the leftist nuts describe.

It's gonna stand, and in 90 days the review will be over, and the world will continue to orbit the sun.

You may not *like* that he's able to do this, you may think it's a useless step and poorly implemented, but it's still within his authority to do it. Find something useful to hit him on.

I suppose one can rationalize the travel ban as non religious, but based on Trump's rhetoric and information from some pretty good sources, such as Rudy Giuliani, makes it very clear to me that the main motivation behind the ban was religious in nature. It's sort of like implementing a poll tax as a means of preventing blacks from voting. Almost all blacks were poor, so let's set up a tax and use the fact that it applies to everyone to disguise its true intent. You know as well as I do that if Trump had his druthers, he'd kick every single Muslim out of the country, including native born citizens.

No one that I've heard, even on PMS-NBC that I watch during my workouts and is as liberal as Fox is conservative, that the 7 countries in Trump's travel ban are "purely Muslim." They are undoubtedly predominantly Muslim, and that's the term I've heard used.

The main problem I have is the mean spirited and haphazard way in which this ban was implemented. He cannot show that there was some sort of imminent danger that demanded immediate action. The vast majority of terrorists that have committed acts on US soil, including all of the 9/11 attackers, did not hail from any of those 7 countries. Honest question: Have any foreigners from the 7 banned countries committed a terrorist act on US soil? I don't disagree that there is a need to review our security policies regarding the granting of travel visas and work permits, especially from countries known to harbor terrorists in large numbers, but his actions were way overboard and completely uncalled for.

But I do agree that Trump will prevail in court. Other than stepping in and relieving the suffering of individuals that were in transit or had legitimate visas or green cards, I don't like the courts getting involved with an executive order that involves national security.

I suppose one can rationalize the travel ban as non religious, but based on Trump's rhetoric and information from some pretty good sources, such as Rudy Giuliani, makes it very clear to me that the main motivation behind the ban was religious in nature.

It may very well have been, but you still have to look at the actual EO to evaluate whether he actually acted on those attitudes.

They are undoubtedly predominantly Muslim, and that's the term I've heard used.

Fair, but he didn't even come up with the list of countries, and if he really wanted to act on some Muslim-hating impulse, he could have added a bunch of countries that are overwhelmingly Muslim (and would have had a stronger argument in doing so- those countries have actually produced terrorists that attacked us).

This is just a temporary suspension of immigration from areas where reliable vetting has been considered difficult or impossible as a matter of US policy for many years.

The main problem I have is the mean spirited and haphazard way in which this ban was implemented.

Agreed. He acts impulsively and like a buffoon. I'm just hoping some of the competent people he's placed in his administration, and there are many, thankfully, suppress these knee-jerk responses.

The people sh*tting their pants over literally every move the guy makes are only making things easier for him, though.

Agreed. He acts impulsively and like a buffoon. I'm just hoping some of the competent people he's placed in his administration, and there are many, thankfully, suppress these knee-jerk responses.

The people sh*tting their pants over literally every move the guy makes are only making things easier for him, though.

The good people in his administration and there are some no doubt are unable to control him at all.They never will and nobody but the courts ever have.

Yesterday he tweets an attack on Nordstrom's and accusing them of lying about why they dropped Ivanka's sh1++y line of cheap made in China products.Shawn Spicer backed it up saying he has a right to defend his daughter against purely political retaliation. Kellyanne Conway actually was hawking Ivanka's products on Faux news later encouraging people to buy them.

Those two will need to go turn tricks for 5 bucks apiece to regain their sense of self respect when this is over with. They are all likely breaking federal law with their actions regarding pumping her merchandise from the white house.

Trump backed it up this morning by attacking Senator Blumenthal saying he mischaracterized SCOTUS nominee Gorsch 's remarks yesterday about attacking judges being "discouraging and demoralizing" that were clearly critical of him. Trump added that Blumenthal had exaggerated his service in Vietnam,like that somehow proves the guy is lying about the comments even though white house aides had already confirmed the content of the conversation.

Apparently he has amnesia about his 4F designation due to his bone spurs. So do his legion of sheep.

It is not just democrats who have seen enough already to know the man is mentally unfit to serve in the office.There's something to sh*t ones pants over in the opinion of this stanch conservative. Im Fing embarrassed for my country right now.

Aaaaand... the most predictable appellate court in the country upheld the stay. They're now making preparations for the Supreme Court to Yet Again reverse their decision, adding to their record number of reversals, and leading everyone to wonder why they bother ruling at all anymore.

Yesterday he tweets an attack on Nordstrom's and accusing them of lying about why they dropped Ivanka's sh1++y line of cheap made in China products.

Idiotic (as was Spicer's and Conway's defense of it), but: how the hell do you know Ivanka's stuff is sh*tty?? Nordstrom generally carries very, very nice stuff.

This is what I'm talking about. If you literally can't leave *anything* alone surrounding this goof, you're going to get another 4 years of him in 2020. No offense, but it's this type of bed-wetting that steeled middle-of-the-road people in his favor (wait- can you steel in favor of something???).

And yes, good people around him *can* affect him. In fact, Mattis already has, letting everyone know NATO is going nowhere, thank the heavens.

Crucify him when he deserves it, but don't overreact, and leave the little stuff alone (there is and will be enough big stuff to fret about).

burrrton wrote:Aaaaand... the most predictable appellate court in the country upheld the stay. They're now making preparations for the Supreme Court to Yet Again reverse their decision, adding to their record number of reversals, and leading everyone to wonder why they bother ruling at all anymore.

Idiotic (as was Spicer's and Conway's defense of it), but: how the hell do you know Ivanka's stuff is sh*tty?? Nordstrom generally carries very, very nice stuff.

This is what I'm talking about. If you literally can't leave *anything* alone surrounding this goof, you're going to get another 4 years of him in 2020. No offense, but it's this type of bed-wetting that steeled middle-of-the-road people in his favor (wait- can you steel in favor of something???).

And yes, good people around him *can* affect him. In fact, Mattis already has, letting everyone know NATO is going nowhere, thank the heavens.

Crucify him when he deserves it, but don't overreact, and leave the little stuff alone (there is and will be enough big stuff to fret about).

Ok fair enough. Points taken. I'm really trying to relax, it isn't good for my health but I cant often remember being this pissed off about Obama and there was plenty to oppose then too. My main point about Nordstrom is the sheer hypocrisy of Ivanka profiting off the backs of Chinese minions and Mr make America great throwing a fit when Nordstrom's says it doesn't fit their business model. Meanwhile he threatens major American based yet global corporations with retaliating with 20 % tariffs if they move a portion of manufacturing abroad to Mexico or elsewhere.

Thank goodness for James Mattis and John Kelley for sure. I love the SCOTUS nominee.

Some of the rest...lets say we drained the swamp of the millionaires and filled it up with billionaires or career politicians whose main qualifications were being donors to his campaign or endorsing him. Pence has been forced to be the fake news pointman defending Gen Flynn who went from categorically denying speaking with the Russian government about Obama's sanctions as a private citizen to stating that he "cant remember what was discussed". I believe this is set up to be the most corrupt secretive dishonest administration in history and possibly the most inept. Ill be shocked if the man wins a second term but I already am shocked he got this far with a combination of racist rednecks in early primary voting states along with some very smart but low information voters who did not examine this guy past the catchy slogans.These would include most of my very closest friends.

Im with Russell, I wouldnt be surprised to see him either resign or wind up impeached long before 2020.

But hes off to Mira de Lago to golf for the second weekend in a row with the Japanese PM. Again its about the sheer hypocrisy of a man who criticized Obama about too much golf and wasting money on vacations. He and his trophy wife who refuses to move to the White house will have cost american taxpayers 20 MILLION DOLLARS in 2 weeks.

Its tough being the 10%er republican with no voice in the media and constantly facing accusations of being a closet liberal because I have said HELL NO to Trump from about a week after the guy started running.

Oh well it is what it is. Hopefully it will stabilize somewhat. Our very survival may depend on it.

This is just a temporary suspension of immigration from areas where reliable vetting has been considered difficult or impossible as a matter of US policy for many years.

It was a targeted ban that focused exclusively on Middle Eastern, predominantly Muslim countries, not a comprehensive one. There's no way you can tell me that those 7 countries were the only ones with holes in the way they issue passports. If an individual or group of individuals really wanted to get into the US to commit terrorist acts, they could very easily side step these 7 countries and gain access to our country. I see no imminent threat that excuses the haphazard and shoot from the hip approach that characterizes this POTUS's behavior. It was not well thought out, rather he acted on his own personal bias rather than ordering a comprehensive review of our admissions procedures and going from there.

The people sh*tting their pants over literally every move the guy makes are only making things easier for him, though.

I'm not "sh*tting my pants" over every move he makes. As a matter of fact, I support a lot of the things he's done so far, think that his SCOTUS nominee is a good choice, like the fact that he gave the Dakota Access pipeline a green light to go under the Missouri, like the way he's negotiated some deals with companies that do business with the US government, and so on. But he has not justified his actions in this travel ban.

It may be legal and within his rights as POTUS to do so, but there is no doubt in my mind that the primary motivation behind this travel ban is religious in nature. The clincher for me was comments made by Rudy G., not your average bleeding heart liberal, but a man who cut his teeth going after the bad guys.

There's no way you can tell me that those 7 countries were the only ones with holes in the way they issue passports.

You're right, but the point is it's been US policy for years now that those 7 countries are particularly troublesome, and it's not Trump that decided that- it was the previous administration.

Criticize the move all you want (I'll join you), but it's not a ban on Muslims for Pete's sake, and you weaken the case against the EO by characterizing it so dishonestly.

If an individual or group of individuals really wanted to get into the US to commit terrorist acts, they could very easily side step these 7 countries and gain access to our country.

Correct- Muslims can come here via other countries. Almost like they're not actually banned, huh?

It was not well thought out

Couldn't agree more.

I'm not "sh*tting my pants" over every move he makes.

That wasn't directed at you necessarily.

It may be legal and within his rights as POTUS to do so

It's almost assuredly so- I think it's widely acknowledged on both sides of the aisle that if this makes it to the SCOTUS, the EO is likely to be upheld because it's both within the Executive's authority and not a religious test (although there is some scrutiny of religion, I believe, but that's common). This is one of those cases that Scalia would have stamped "STUPID BUT CONSTITUTIONAL".

Not even our state AG is arguing otherwise- the thrust of the stay on the EO is that it causes economic harm (and vague claims about hurting research or something, at least from all I've cared to read on it).

[edit]

Interesting article that kinda supports what I've said but may support your position in some ways, too:

burrrton wrote:Correct- Muslims can come here via other countries. Almost like they're not actually banned, huh?

That's the point. Trump's ban is very similar to gun control laws: The bad guys will figure their way around it while the good guys suffer one helluva lot of inconveniences. The ban, as in gun control laws, has no real effect on the problem it is supposedly trying to solve.

And that fact goes on to demonstrate that there was no pressing urge to implement this ban, at least not without taking the time to consider other countries that pose similar threats to our security. The only thing Trump took the time to do was to make sure he had legal ground to cover up his personal motivations.

That's the point. Trump's ban is very similar to gun control laws: The bad guys will figure their way around it while the good guys suffer one helluva lot of inconveniences. The ban, as in gun control laws, has no real effect on the problem it is supposedly trying to solve.

I don't think that is the point, RD. I agree it's mostly ineffective, an inconvenience at best for any terrorist set on getting here, and poorly implemented- a big sign that he goes off about half-cocked and worries about the details later.

The point is that it's not a ban on Muslims. He didn't dream up this list of countries, and if he really wanted to "ban Muslims", he could have *easily* done so to a much higher degree by including a number of other overwhelmingly Muslim countries.

"MUSLIM BAN" is great for bumper stickers and protest signs, and yeah, he's used the phrase as shorthand so he has no one else to blame, but if you look at what the EO actually is, it's nothing of the sort, and implemented/structured more intelligently, makes some sense (reviewing the vetting procedures in and of itself is not a bad idea).

burrrton wrote:I don't think that is the point, RD. I agree it's mostly ineffective, an inconvenience at best for any terrorist set on getting here, and poorly implemented- a big sign that he goes off about half-cocked and worries about the details later.

The point is that it's not a ban on Muslims. He didn't dream up this list of countries, and if he really wanted to "ban Muslims", he could have *easily* done so to a much higher degree by including a number of other overwhelmingly Muslim countries.

"MUSLIM BAN" is great for bumper stickers and protest signs, and yeah, he's used the phrase as shorthand so he has no one else to blame, but if you look at what the EO actually is, it's nothing of the sort, and implemented/structured more intelligently, makes some sense (reviewing the vetting procedures in and of itself is not a bad idea).

It absolutely is the point, burr. If it is mostly ineffective, then what is the purpose of it? Why the urgency to do this within weeks of his taking office? Why make it such a focal point of the first 30 days of his administration? And why, then, are you supporting it?

A "MUSLIM BAN" absolutely is part of the EO. Here's some verbiage from the part of the EO regarding Administration refugee policy: "The executive order further states that the United States should “prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual’s country of nationality.”

In other words, Muslims get to the back of the line. If you're a Christian, you get priority over your Muslim neighbor. Trump himself admits that Muslims are persecuted in those countries as well as other religions when he said ...everybody was persecuted, in all fairness ― but they were chopping off the heads of everybody, but more so the Christians...” So why de-prioritize Muslims? Persecution is persecution, is it not? Why does the EO even mention religion?

If it was the blatant "Muslim ban" you purport it to be, there wouldn't be a bipartisan consensus that the SCOTUS will uphold it. If he wanted to "ban Muslims", there are a million better ways he could have done it, even within the context of this EO. Quit being hysterical.

I'm out. Keep freaking the fck out over every misspelled word on Twitter and we'll have this @sshole until 2024.

If it was the blatant "Muslim ban" you purport it to be, there wouldn't be a bipartisan consensus that the SCOTUS will uphold it. If he wanted to "ban Muslims", there are a million better ways he could have done it, even within the context of this EO. Quit being hysterical.

I'm out. Keep freaking the fck out over every misspelled word on Twitter and we'll have this @sshole until 2024.

You've already admitted that the ban will do little to stop terrorists, so what is it that he needs time from? He doesn't need the ban in order to review our vetting policy.

I'm not sure what it is that I've said that causes you to think that I'm "hysterical" about Trump. I'm not a liberal. I've never voted for a Dem POTUS candidate, which goes all the way back to 1972. In this very thread, I've specified several things of which I support Trump on. And I've acknowledged that he's within his legal right to implement the ban. It's just that it's unnecessary and divisive. He has more important things on his palette.

Flynn resigns abruptly a few hours after Kellyanne Conway says he has the full confidence of the president.Spicer rebuts it with "the president is evaluating the situation. "In Flynn's statement he says he misled Pence "and others" about his conversations with the Russian envoy regarding sanctions.Trumps name is absent from that portion of the statement.

The President denies repeatedly to reporters that he had even heard of the reports or controversy as recently as friday even though it was plastered over every news channel for days on end. The acting AG had warned the WH legal counsel WEEKS AGO that Flynn was lying in his public statements and might be compromised.

How could WH council have not discussed these allegations with the President and Vice President at a minimum?

Why would Flynn make that call in the first place? Why would Trump tweet the morning after Flynn's call when Obama imposed sanctions that Putin was "very smart" not to retaliate?

It is laughable that a president who throws a hissy fit about refugees and legal visitors from tin horn 3rd world muslim countries is sucking up to our greatest geopolitical foe as Romney so correctly stated.

There is something very dark and dirty here. I am more convinced that ever that Russia has highly compromising information about citizen trump including film of a disgustingly sick liaison with Russian hookers and possible financial corruption etc as well.Many details of this dossier compiled by a respected person in the intelligence community who is now in hiding have been confirmed by intelligence officials in terms of the names of contacts, dates of communications and content as well.

Today Trump blames the resignation of Flynn who he has absolutely refused to defend as a result of "illegal leaks". Seems like a change of tune from rooting for Russia and Wikileaks to dig up dirt on Hillary.And the leaks aren't going to be stopping. People who love America and the Republican party are going to make sure people know the truth and god bless them.

You reap what you sow when you attack your own supposed party and past republican presidents, war hero senators etc buddy.

Hes going to go down as one of the biggest POS ever to disgrace the office whenever he leaves.Is that sh**ting my pants enough over nothing Burrton?Or is this a big deal?

Trump's abrupt about face from his "full confidence" in Flynn position shouldn't be surprising. Politicians turn on aides as quickly as NFL owners turn on their head coaches. I'll never forget George McGovern's being "1000%" behind his Veep candidate only to toss him overboard a day or so later. I also am not surprised at Trump's claims of ignorance. This is a man that rationalized losing the popular vote by claiming voter fraud and claims his lagging disapproval numbers are the creation of a biased media.

Trump's inexperience at governing is really showing in these first few weeks of his administration. His style is more of a game show host than it is a President. He doesn't think a damn thing through, whether it be his travel ban or his cabinet appointees (although this one isn't a cabinet position). He shoots from the hip. I fully support Congress looking into this Russian connection. There's just too much smoke lingering for there not to be a fire underneath.

This is going to be a rocky 4 years, if he makes it that far. At first, I didn't think it possible, at least not with the R's controlling Congress, that impeachment would ever get serious consideration. But I'm beginning to think differently. If he doesn't get tripped up by this Russian connection, he'll do something by not properly "vetting" the subject.

Looks like Putin's already testing the limits of that Russian connection. Yesterday the Captain of a US warship in the Black Sea revealed that on the 10th his ship was buzzed by 4 Russian jets ... interesting that we've heard nothing about it from the White House.

c_hawkbob wrote:Looks like Putin's already testing the limits of that Russian connection. Yesterday the Captain of a US warship in the Black Sea revealed that on the 10th his ship was buzzed by 4 Russian jets ... interesting that we've heard nothing about it from the White House.

They've been doing that sort of things for a long time. It's not clear to me why this time it's motivated by Putin testing Trump's limits:

Last week’s incident (that you are referring to) fits a pattern of “unsafe” Russian aircraft activity that has spiked since Russia annexed the Crimean Peninsula and backed separatist forces in eastern Ukraine, beginning in 2014. The most recent close call around the Black Sea occurred in September, when a Russian Su-27 fighter aircraft made a “close-range intercept” with a U.S. P-8 Poseidon, a maritime surveillance plane.

In April, there were multiple encounters with Russian aircraft over the Baltic Sea. Two Su-24s and a flight of helicopters buzzed the destroyer the USS Donald Cook and an RC-135 reconnaissance aircraft in two separate incidents. The jets came within 30 feet of the Cook’s rear deck, and the RC-135 was on a “routine” mission when a Su-27 barrel-rolled over it from wingtip to wingtip.

Actually 3 pieces of Russia news surfaced yesterday aside from Flynn. #1 the buzzing incident by planes with transponders turned off and far to close for international regulations. #2 news the Russians have put into service a long range nuclear armed cruise missile which clearly violates the START treaty and is particularly dangerous because its mobile launch system is designed to look exactly like a short range system permitted by the treaty. It makes it almost impossible for satellites etc to know if and where it is being deployed. #3 a soviet spy ship designed to spy on u s intelligence communications is trolling slowly up and down the eastern US seaboard in international waters.

And yes Bob you are correct. Not ONE WORD about any of it from the tough guy. Must be one hell of a dossier of dirt they have on this guy. I remember in a debate vs Hillary Trump was going on about what a strong leader Putin was and she told Donald that Putin preferred him because he wanted "a patsy". I don't agree with her on much of anything but it looks like she was right.Interception of post election communications in Moscow with champagne corks popping and one unidentified official saying "its Trump, America is ours" should scare the s**t out of all of us, not just me.Impeach now....

OK, I agree that it's unusual that we haven't heard the Prez denounce the buzzing incident. But Trump is so disconnected that he probably didn't even think to denounce it. But I doubt that it was motivated by some attempt by Putin to test Trump's limits, which is how I read Cbob's comments.

I think that's a bit naive Dog, if you think these incidents aren't Putin's way of gauging the amount of leeway he's going to have with the current administration. Or just don't want to see it that way.

c_hawkbob wrote:I think that's a bit naive Dog, if you think these incidents aren't Putin's way of gauging the amount of leeway he's going to have with the current administration. Or just don't want to see it that way.

You're speculating just like I am. The Russians have been playing a game of chicken with our military for the past two years. Who's to say that this week's buzzing incident was a direct order from Putin or that a local commander was acting on a two year old standing order to "let the Americans know that we're here"? All I'm saying is that one relatively minor buzzing incident isn't real strong proof that it's Putin testing Trump.

But I do think you have a good point about Trump not saying anything about it, although I think one explanation could be that he's so disinterested in governing that he didn't pay any attention to it, which if true, is itself very concerning.

RiverDog wrote:I suppose one can rationalize the travel ban as non religious, but based on Trump's rhetoric and information from some pretty good sources, such as Rudy Giuliani, makes it very clear to me that the main motivation behind the ban was religious in nature. It's sort of like implementing a poll tax as a means of preventing blacks from voting. Almost all blacks were poor, so let's set up a tax and use the fact that it applies to everyone to disguise its true intent. You know as well as I do that if Trump had his druthers, he'd kick every single Muslim out of the country, including native born citizens.

No one that I've heard, even on PMS-NBC that I watch during my workouts and is as liberal as Fox is conservative, that the 7 countries in Trump's travel ban are "purely Muslim." They are undoubtedly predominantly Muslim, and that's the term I've heard used.

The main problem I have is the mean spirited and haphazard way in which this ban was implemented. He cannot show that there was some sort of imminent danger that demanded immediate action. The vast majority of terrorists that have committed acts on US soil, including all of the 9/11 attackers, did not hail from any of those 7 countries. Honest question: Have any foreigners from the 7 banned countries committed a terrorist act on US soil? I don't disagree that there is a need to review our security policies regarding the granting of travel visas and work permits, especially from countries known to harbor terrorists in large numbers, but his actions were way overboard and completely uncalled for.

But I do agree that Trump will prevail in court. Other than stepping in and relieving the suffering of individuals that were in transit or had legitimate visas or green cards, I don't like the courts getting involved with an executive order that involves national security.

Sorry Riverdog - there are damm good reasons why people are concerned about Muslim Migration - It has nothing to do with Racism and everything to do with a culture clash of significant differences. The videos of conflcts and clashes in Europe are all over the internet. Why does the USA MSM suppress them? What are liberal women advocating the migration of people who want to put them all in Burka's - Strip away 300 years of advancement in women rights and lets not get started on their views on Gays (Throw them off a roof)

Ask the American Indians what happens when you let in a culture that is completely hostile to your fundamental beliefs? - Like equal rights for women and gays - right to free speech - right to draw cartoons without getting killed . etc. etc.

The truth is hard to pin down here IMO. Everyone with a brain wants safety from terror. The problem with trumps executive action was that it was overbroad in its intended application. Also his own spontaneous retarded comments about a "muslim ban" as well as comments "favoring Christians" as immigrants from these countries gave the admittedly left leaning courts additional ammo.

His new NSA McMaster has stated publicly in the last few days that the term "radical islamic terror" is not helpful since we need Muslims to fight the war on terror. In fact many times as many Muslims as non muslims have died at the hands of terrorists.

General Mattis has also spoken out against his numerous campaign threats to take Iraqi oil,His threats to send troops into mexico and also broke sharply with him regarding his lovey dovey stance towards Russia and Vlad. Pence has contradicted him regarding Nato and had to take the lead on challenging all the anti semitic attacks Trump was way late to the party on. Bannon is in charge of steering him around by the nose hairs on domestic policy as well as his more radical immigration policies.

Its a headless monster right now although with the exception of the utterly vile piece of excrement Bannon, his weasel spokesman Spicer and his little b**** Priebus many of his appointments reassure even liberals and moderates that there are at least some adults around, day care workers if you will.

His war on any media reporting negative things about him demonstrates his mental weakness and is absolutely frightening in a democratic society but unfortunately the same sheep who elected him buy his line of 30% accuracy in his statements over the media.Hes trying to sow seeds of doubt along with his spokesmen and allies in the congress for when the really bad news starts hitting the airwaves.

The Russia thing worries me a lot more than any terrorist. Especially with Trump in charge. Its time for a special prosecutor to look into it. The partisan redneck Sessions and the lap dog Republicans in the house aren't going to get it done.Lets start with forcing him to release the tax returns that would show plenty of tentacles in Russia and elsewhere Im sure.

There are definitely some things to like about the agenda but the man?

Time to appoint a Special Pros. I know an active cover-up when I see one. The only reason Trump didn't fire Gen. Flynn indeed, hired him in the first place, is because he knew and approved of his talking to the Russians and then lying about it. If the story about Flynn lying to VP Pence had not been leaked to the WA. Post Trump would have never fired Flynn to this day. Most Republicans are a lot more concerned about who leaked the Flynn story to the Post rather than the fact than Flynn was a liar.

V.P. Pence was in charge of the transition so therefore Pence is the guy who dropped the ball and did not properly VET Gen. Flynn, now the White House has the audacity to blame the Obama Admin.

So, as Jared Kushner and his sister are selling VISAS to wealthy Chinese Nationals who "donate" to Trump building projects and Eric Trump brags that Russian Banks lent them the dough to build many of their golf courses Trump fires the Dir. of the F.B.I. who was in the process of investigating Trump and his possible connections to Vlad. Putin and his blood thirsty regime.

Both Trump & Pence need to be impeached, convicted and removed from office.

Nixon is off the hook as the biggest crook to ever occupy the office and it aint even close. Chump is grabbing Americas P*ssy so hard it may never recover. Now Comey is fired for supposedly bungling the Hillary Clinton E mail scandal? Never mind he was praised by Trump at the time as being "courageous".Even Clinton herself isn't buying this.The unabashed revisionist history and bald faced fiction produced by Trump and his idiotic minions like Sean Spicer and the haggish haggard looking Kellyanne Conway is mind boggling.

Flat out lies about the rank and file FBI agents not supporting Comey are being manufactured. Almost to a person they have expressed shock and anger. Its clear the Russian investigation that has Trump screaming at TV sets was the entire reason he personally asked to have Sessions and his deputy find a reason to fire Comey.He couldnt stand that Comey refused to clear him with a public statement. Obviously because he wasn't in the clear. So gut the investigative agency is the strategy.

It doesn't matter to the 43% or whatever sheep who can see quote after quote directly in conflict with his current actions from this unsophisticated remorseless lying blowhard and still support him. Its a sad time in America right now.I just hope we survive this jackass without being in total war and destruction before he is finished molesting this country.

Hawktawk wrote:Nixon is off the hook as the biggest crook to ever occupy the office and it aint even close. Chump is grabbing Americas P*ssy so hard it may never recover. Now Comey is fired for supposedly bungling the Hillary Clinton E mail scandal? Never mind he was praised by Trump at the time as being "courageous".Even Clinton herself isn't buying this.The unabashed revisionist history and bald faced fiction produced by Trump and his idiotic minions like Sean Spicer and the haggish haggard looking Kellyanne Conway is mind boggling.

Flat out lies about the rank and file FBI agents not supporting Comey are being manufactured. Almost to a person they have expressed shock and anger. Its clear the Russian investigation that has Trump screaming at TV sets was the entire reason he personally asked to have Sessions and his deputy find a reason to fire Comey.He couldnt stand that Comey refused to clear him with a public statement. Obviously because he wasn't in the clear. So gut the investigative agency is the strategy.

It doesn't matter to the 43% or whatever sheep who can see quote after quote directly in conflict with his current actions from this unsophisticated remorseless lying blowhard and still support him. Its a sad time in America right now.I just hope we survive this jackass without being in total war and destruction before he is finished molesting this country.

I don't think Trump fired Comey for bungling the Clinton email scandal. I believe he fired him because he thought he was getting too up close and personal into the Russian hacking scandal.

I don't like Trump anymore than I did before election day due more to his personality and less to his politics, but as I predicted, he has not had an easy time getting Republicans to line up behind each and every initiative of his. Plus although the numbers favor the R's holding onto the Senate, I fully expect them to lose the House in '18, which will put a crimp on his agenda. Heck, depending on who the D's put up as a candidate, I'm considering voting for no other reason than to give Trump a vasectomy.

RiverDog wrote:I don't think Trump fired Comey for bungling the Clinton email scandal. I believe he fired him because he thought he was getting too up close and personal into the Russian hacking scandal.

I don't like Trump anymore than I did before election day due more to his personality and less to his politics, but as I predicted, he has not had an easy time getting Republicans to line up behind each and every initiative of his. Plus although the numbers favor the R's holding onto the Senate, I fully expect them to lose the House in '18, which will put a crimp on his agenda. Heck, depending on who the D's put up as a candidate, I'm considering voting for no other reason than to give Trump a vasectomy.

According to the "sources from inside the WH" that he's currently railing about the tipping point came when Comey refused to 'preview' his testimony before congress to him and a panel of trusted advisers.