Do you support the Junior Doctor’s latest planned 5 day strike?

Sep 1, 2016

By Silversurfers Editor

There is continuing unrest in hospitals as we hear today that Junior Doctors have more plans to go on strike due to the inability to agree a new working contract with the Health Secretary. Jeremy Hunt says plans by junior doctors to hold five consecutive days of strikes this month in hospitals in England will cause misery for patients.

The all-out strikes will take place from from 12 to 16 September, with more to follow apparently.

Confidential papers seen from the British Medical Association (BMA) said there could be 5 days of strikes each month for the rest of this year. Jeremy Hunt has called it devastating news and added “Perhaps 100,000 operations will now have to be cancelled, around a million hospital appointments will have to be postponed, causing worry, distress and anxiety for families up and down the country.”

The British Medical Association (BMA) said members were opposed to the new contract which was being imposed. Negotiations have been ongoing for months now, with no clear end in sight.

Mr Hunt said he was prepared to talk further with the BMA – but only if they called off the planned strikes.

But Dr Mark Porter, chairman of the BMA council, blamed the “continued reluctance” of Mr Hunt to do “anything other than impose a contract on junior doctors”.

Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, which represents hospital trusts, said the strikes would have “a very serious impact on a very large number of patients”.

The doctors have support from Diana Abbott the Shadow Health Secretary who has said its not too late for Mr Hunt to “stop his idea of imposing a contract on Junior Doctors” and implored him to “get back into talks”

We asked our Silversurfers community a similar question back in April and 63% of you were in support of the Junior Doctors striking. Do you still feel the same?

Were you affected by the previous strikes? Should Jeremy Hunt get back into more negotiations or tough out the strikes? Are the doctors now becoming unreasonable or is it unreasonable to force them into a new contract?

Thank goodness the planned 5 day Junior Doctors strike has been called off.
Dr Ellen McCourt of the BMA, representative for Junior Doctors said because of " patients safety" and the NHS not coping. Talk about stating "the obvious". Where on earth is the BMA coming from, - hospitals are for the sick, people who are ill, people who are vulnerable, people who need help, not to be used in a political fight. So walking out on these people was OK in the mind of those who organised the strike. How callous, and shocking.
My thoughts just now are for the people with planned operations and the relief that hopefully the procedures will go ahead. Also for all the people with appointments that would have been cancelled.
How dare the BMA state the public were behind them. I certainly was not.

How can Jeremy Hunt be blamed for so called professionals walking out on the sick and the vulnerable, - that was entirely the choice of the BMA, and I am still in shock that so called professionals, so called caring people would even dream of leaving patients to stand chanting and shouting on a picket line.

The problem eminates from the totally inept Mr Hunt and his statement of the Tory manifesto pledge to provide a "7 day" NHS - which must be said that only a minority of the electorate voted for in the election. All of this is a smokescreen for the dismantling of the NHS and is the thin end of the wedge, and only certain specifics and statistics are routinely wheeled out - no mention of going to India and using an agency in hiring some 500 "doctors" to try to bridge the gap of the doctor shortage. The NHS will not exist if this shower of a Govt get their way. Just look at everything the Govt has its fingers in, and the mess it is causing - immigration, education, welfare, EU, etc.... It is the people of this country that are suffering and will suffer. Why can't we have the NHS ring-fenced and a cross party committee set up for long term planning? By the way, I am not a supporter of the Opposition either, they would do no better.

The Junior Doctor's work long hour's and the hospitals are open 24/7 they need shorter hours and pay. Our lives are in there hands if they are tired because of the long hours it's the patients who may suffer.
Come on get it right

peaches2, I do accept Junior Doctors work long hours, and know that hospitals are obviously open 24/7, and do know they are also paid to do the job, but what I don't get is that these people can walk out on strike and not care about the sick they are supposed to be treating, if they did care, they wouldn't strike and would think about the vulnerable.

Whilst I have every sympathy for the Doctors , there must be liaison between them and the Minister Jeremy Hunt . Having worked in NHS Clinics a while ago I can see a lot of ways the NHS could be
saving money to pay the Doctors . If these Doctors leave to have
jobs in private Hospitals the Government only has itself to blame.

Capricorn, how would that work. I cannot imagine for the life of me Junior doctors leaving the NHS to work solely in private hospitals. I don't understand your comment - I am sorry.
Private hospitals are a business, - doctors who use their facilities have to pay for the use of the room etc. Insurance companies mostly pick up the tab for the testing and operating facilities used by the consultants.
Consultants work in the private sector all the time, but mainly they retain their NHS status, this status usually feeds their private work.

As it stands, the NHS cannot carry on overspending and there are certainly areas where they can cut down on non Medical expenditure.

1. Tony Blair set up a Sure Start program for young girls who didn't know how to cook and look after their new baby . The young girls who got pregnant only had to get a letter from their Mother to say there was not enough room to bring the Baby up so the pregnant girl was given a 2 bedrom house straight after the Baby was born and the Sure Start Scheme workers were based in the Clinics and went to the girls brand new Flat to show her how to cook and look after the Baby . The Girls got free morning after Pills if they forgot to take one the night before., so there was no excuse to get pregnant.

In the old days if you got pregnant you went into a Home where your child was cared for while you went out to work if there was no room at home for a new born Baby.

2. Why are people who given a new Car if they can't get about easily... how can that be ?? After 3 years the Car can be sold off cheaply and the recipient have a new car.?

3. One day I was asked to go to the Clinic in the Docks area where there is an area where Muslims have lived for many years. This old Man came in and practically threw some Benefit Books at me . I couldn't understand what he was saying , so phoned for assistance.
This Woman , British , but drssed in the Burkah came down and talked to the Man in his own Language. It turned out that there was an office upstairs with 7 Woman taking Muslims to the Doctors, Dentists, Lawyers etc !!!!!

I could go on and on about the NHS extravagance which is why youg Doctors are poorly paid. for the Hours they work.and have sympathy for them. If they are qualified they can work in Private Hospitals , or even move to another Country.

On reading your post Capricorn - I do agree with the wasted money splashed out in all Public Sector Departments.
As I have said before, if these people were running businesses, - i.e. self employed - there would be absolutely no money wasted - as every penny earned has to be carefully utilised.
I have been self employed for 42 years, still working - in my 70's, having been hit by several recessions it has been and is truly hard and difficult to keep going, but we do.
I have also said before, - I do not see the health service providing me with free service, as I pay my taxes etc., it is only free on the point of delivery.
My mindset is not to claim for this that and the other, but that you need to work to pay to live - ...................................and I still do not agree with the Junior Doctors strike, - looking after the sick is what they trained and signed up for, - not to walk out on the vulnerable. I feel, like all good working people, I pay the wages via tax etc of the junior doctors, - and walking out for five days each month is not a good return on our investments.

I have never been part of a trade union. Whatever the reason for striking it is rarely acceptable. workers are called to strike by militant TU leaders causing the utmost inconvenience to the general public and then they have the gaul to ask for their support

Just to say, I was born and bred in Bolton in a 2up2down terrace
with little to eat and lived in damp and dismal conditions,my parents where poor to say the least.

Hi 7woodys, I agree with you that one out all out is not the way to get your way , but Cameron gave Hunt the job of running the NHS because he was a good Businessman !!!! Had he appointed someone from the NHS these strikes wouldn't be happening . The NHS must improve it's accounting, but get someone who is already a Manager .

As I have said , I only worked in the Clinics but could see the waste...this is another example. I was a Receptionist at the Clinic and one day a Senior Office Worker asked me to go to another Clinic about 10 miles away where there was to be a demonstration on lifting properly. I explained I was only a Receptionist and never lifted anything but told I had to have the teaching anyway. That cost 3 hrs extra Pay for working after my hours and a Taxi to take me to the Clinic where the demo was to take place.!!!!!

The NHS needs a comlete overhaul , including prescriptions which could be bought over the Counter, we have become a Nanny state where the NHS is concerned and I would hate to see the Young Doctors leave the NHS , they do work hard and are on call , not just 9 til 5.

7woody6 I agree entirely with your comments. I too was brought in a household where there was no money.
So I am at a loss to take on board the cruelty of the BMA and the Junior Doctors even contemplating taking strike action. Punishing the innocent. So monstrous, words fail me.
No person striking ever has my support, and especially the medical profession.

Mr Hunt has stated that he does not believe in the future of the NHS so he is biased and not the right person to negotiate in my view. If the government intend to have a seven day health service, they must enable the training of more doctors and give it the resources it needs. If Theresa May believes what she says,that Hunt is 'an excellent Health Secretary' then we and the NHS are doomed.

Junior doctors work incredibly hard but I would hope another way to resolve this could be found. It's easy to say strike until you need them and then it's another perspective.The government must be made to listen. Maybe the health minister should shadow a junior doctor for a day!

I agree MommyA with the content of your post - and you hit the nail on the head saying " it is easy to say strike until you need them" - I can only speak from a patient point of view, and absolutely know that Junior Doctors withdrawing their services has an obvious enormous and dreadful impact on patients, - the very people they treat. The long term effects of striking will be felt in the appointment system for many months, - and do people who have supported the strike tell those patients suffering - "serve you right" - goodness me - It is a shocking state of affairs.
Can I please add MommyA - Junior Doctors are not the only people who work incredibly hard.

Health, the Police and Education are areas which should be free of political interference. As soon as you allow politicians to get involved with things like this, it ends up a mess. These parts of our society have been tinkered with and micro-managed for decades, and look what's happening. There are some things, and health is one of them, which are too important to be managed with one eye always on the balance sheet. There are armies of highly paid managers and analysts, civil servants in Whitehall, and still they can't run a decent service. Hand it all back to the local area and let it be run by people who know what they're doing and what needs doing. Give them the funds and tell them to get on with it. Stop political interference.

I wholeheartedly agree with you Westminster that Doctors should be forbidden to strike, - like the Police and Prison Officers. How anyone can back and condone Doctors going on strike it beggars belief to me. Seeing so called intelligent educated people waving banners and screaming and shouting on picket lines thinking that the public backs them in this action is quite awful. Then having the gall to say we are doing this for the patients!!!

Yes but what should they do the government has imposed a contract on them? This is a free country what if the government imposed a contract on you and I in our workplaces? Tbhis is the Uk not North Korea!

I spent 22 years serving in the Armed Services and had contracts of service changed all the time and could do nothing about it, nor did I want to, I knew what I was doing when I took The Queens Shilling, so did these Junior Doctors, you can say that I didn't have the training these guys had but throughout my service career I was constantly on training courses and when the proverbial hits the fan I was at risk of my life, these Doctors do get it hard but they don't risk life and limb and the pay they get is considerably higher than I ever got as a senior nco serving my country, these guys seem only to be in it for the money today, I have worked all my life, some 50 years and never taken any form of industrial action except to look for a new job if I wasn't satisfied.

SMD, if my very limited understanding of English Law is correct, you are right, there much be agreement between the two parties. Clearly, none such exists. Also, since this contract involves money, there must be additional money for the Junior Doctors before the contract is enforceable in Law.

Put simply, Hunt may huff and puff all he likes, but in Law he may not impose a contract and then hope to enforce it in Law.

Oh thank goodness the strike next week is off, my dear friend's daughter can now have her very complicated and serious operation, - I cried when I heard, - please you Junior Doctors please please realise the suffering you are causing the vulnerable and sick, - you are not doing this for the public, - I have witnessed first hand the stress from someone who has been waiting to hear the strike is off.

Taken from the NHAP site run by doctors who know what they are talking about - ' The level of cuts and closures required by the STPs is such that the NHS will become unable to provide a universal service. Rationing will increase, so that most routine procedures will be refused funding. Once various DGHs have closed, the hospitals still standing will struggle with their increased catchment areas and will be forced to provide essentials only.

This was already envisaged by Simon Stevens, who is keen to separate emergency care from routine care. Emergencies will be handled in NHS hospitals, whilst the routine work will be handled by the private sector. Patients wishing to undergo non-essential procedures will find themselves needing to pay to have their cataracts and hernias treated or their tonsils removed.' This is not scaremongering, it is part of the governments 5 year plan plan for our health care. This is what the doctors are fighting alongside their safety concerns around working hours. STP stands for Sustainability and Transformation Plans whereby NHS England has split the country into 44 regions or footprints. Each region had to report by June this year on how they were going to make their books balance. Difficult when the government is underfunding services. How are they achieving this, by closing A&E departments, reducing the number of beds and cutting back on staff. Our health care workers are working in intolerable conditions and yet they will still treat you with care and a smile. They deserve our support.

Don't forget the Government are also discussing withdrawing the NHS Bursary for Nurses, Midwives and Allied Health Professionals which helps them with university fees and could reduce the number applying. Both the Government and universities maintain it will allow more places to be available!

I support them 100%, even though the strikes will probably delay my own forthcoming operation. These are Doctors (never mind the 'junior' description) who are being treated abominably by the government (aka Jeremy Hunt) and it's disgusting that they have no alternative except to go on strike.
Personally, I would prefer to be cared for by a doctor who has had sufficient rest to be able to concentrate on just me!

But they do have an alternative, - why do Doctors, who are supposed to be looking after the sick think it is appropriate to walk out on the vulnerable. As for having sufficient rest - so what is the answer, - and until we can educate illnesses to obey time scales, - unfortunately it will be that hospitals need to run for 24 hours, 7 days per week. There is no other way.......... but the staff are not expected to work 7 days of the week, for 24 hours, - there are have always been shifts in the medical profession.

The General Medical Council appear to have issued a statement threatening to revoke doctors' licences to practise if they go on stike next week. Do you really believe that doctors would risk their careers and livelihoods just for a few extra pence? They are fighting our battle, fighting for patient safety, fighting to save our NHS, and they need our support. The National Health Action Party was formed as a single issue political party by two doctors in an attempt to publicise what is happening to our health care, and to try and save it. They have a facebook page with lots of accurate information. This is part of a quote from a link they shared this morning. ' the government doesn’t mind if the NHS collapses. In fact, it has been the neoliberal plan for several decades. The NHS has been brought to the point of collapse by deliberate underfunding (not “overspending”), a hospital and bed closure plan (we now have less than one third the beds per head of population than Germany), shortsighted manpower planning and cynical scare stories about safety.

This is all presided over by the NHS chief executive Simon Stevens, former vice-president of the US private healthcare company UnitedHealth, and a secretary of state, Jeremy Hunt, who was co-author of a book calling for the end of the NHS (another co-author was Greg Clark, secretary of state for business, energy and industrial strategy). ' All this information is available for doubters to verify. We need to wake up to what is happening now, because once the NHS is gone it is gone and we won't get it back.

They are putting a lot of junior Drs in a difficult situation, they need to be supervised and supported on Medical issue they are not Qualified for yet, we are talking about people's lives here, they are over worked and under paid, they do a wonderful job.

Actually Shel2160 they are qualified as 'junior doctor' refers to anyone below a consultant (or GP). They are definitely overworked but not necessarily underpaid but that does not alter the overriding issue of why there are problems.

This 'speakers corner' image of a male doctor, complete with shirt and tie and white coat is old fashioned and conservative. Its simply not relevant to the modern reality of hospital doctors both male and female who mainly wear practical hospital 'scrubs'.

A friend of mine, who suffers from CRPS is currently in hospital as his current levels of pain cannot be easily controlled. His pain relief is administered via a cannula & despite his intolerable pain levels, he is fully supportive of the junior doctors. He has spent a great deal of time in hospital since developing this condition & has noticed such a difference in staffing levels. Many of these doctors work a deal of unpaid overtime & many worry that exhaustion could lead to mistakes.

Junior doctors are not, as some think, young & newly qualified & to clarify I'm attaching an explanation copied from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

In the United Kingdom, junior doctors are qualified medical practitioners who are working whilst engaged in postgraduate training to become a consultant or a GP. The period of being a junior doctor starts when they qualify as a medical practitioner following graduation with Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery degrees, and culminates in a post as a Consultant, a General Practitioner (GP), or some other non-training post, such as a Staff grade or Associate Specialist post.
The term junior doctor now incorporates the grades of Foundation doctor, Specialty registrar; and prior to 2007 included the grades of Pre-registration house officer, Senior house officer and Specialist registrar. During this time junior doctors will do postgraduate examinations to become members of a Medical royal college relevant to the specialty they are practicing, for example Membership of the Royal College of Physicians for doctors specialising in Internal medicine, Membership of the Royal College of Surgeons for doctors specialising in surgery or Membership of the Royal College of General Practitioners for doctors specialising in family medicine. Doctors typically may be junior doctors for 5–15 years, and this may be extended by doing research towards a higher degree, for example towards a Doctor of Philosophy or Doctor of Medicine degree. In England there are around 53,000 junior doctors."

Sadly, there doesn't seem to be another way, as the Government steadfastly refuse to listen. I for one. give the junior doctors 100% support.

The government says we already have more doctors ! But a local doc tells me they are all working part time due to the pressures put on them.
Impossible to diagnose a serious illness, prescribe, make arrangements, all under threat of legal action if you get it wrong!
In the allocated time of ten minutes the doctor barely gets to read the health records of an older person!

The government are lying! I personally know two consultants who are so fed up with the political interference with the NHS that they have left and relocated to New York City!!!
Many junior Drs are doing the same as New Zealand are offering them jobs with better pay and conditions
Both Labour and the Tories have buggered about with the NHS such that money has been wasted on projects that should've worked if the companies involved were up to the task instead of being friends of a friend who happened to be a donor!!!!

Quite frankly I have yet to see a doctor when they appear on TV, or anywhere, - including the Junior Doctors who look even remotely tired. They are paid to do a job, and as they climb the ladder very lucratively, - and so they should be. Again I refer to the fact the public are putting them on pedestals, - and it is wrong. This is why we are in this situation - Junior Doctors think they are above everybody and everything.

Well BrumEJ43, I don't know what doctors you have seen but having spent 47 years in the NHS I have seen many doctors who are so tired they can hardly function but are expected to make life saving decisions and get blamed if they get it wrong. I don't think junior doctors believe they are above everybody and everything but MP's are a different matter. Does your MP work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week without expecting renumeration. I find it difficult to support a 5 day strike but I find it difficult to believe doctors are only taking action for fun.

I am pretty there is no doctor or person working 24 hours per day, 7 days per week. That is not what is expected of the Junior Doctors, - but what is not expected is to walk away from the people they are supposed to be treating. That is the fact, on the day of the strike, they will walk out, like sheep - it is all political.

Patients will not be at risk because of the strike. The consultants are supporting the junior doctors and will stand in for them wherever needed. During the last days of action there were more doctors available than usual because great care was being taken to cover for the junior doctors. There will be a lot more risk to patients if the government win this fight. The doctors need our one hundred percent support over this issue. They are not fighting for themselves, they are standing up for patients and the future of our health care system. Please don't believe all the garbbage they print inthe media.

Sorry BrumEJ43, didn't appreciate you would take that so literal. You have your views and I have mine, I do not support a 5 day strike but I do support junior doctors and have never put them on a pedestal. I have yet to be convinced that any politician, regardless of political party, are altruistic in their approach to serving their public. Many junior doctors are.

Probably because most MPs dont work a full week and certainly not 80-90 hours a week. They spend most of their time pontificating or in the bar. What about the house of LOrds most of them are asleep and those are the 20% who bother to turn up. Not exactly like doctors who need to be 100% attentive at all times!

You assume a lot and your assumptions are wrong and dangerous. We are in this situation because the government is privatising the health service bit by bit. They have deliberately trained less doctors and nurses. The ones who remain are working under intolerable stresses and they have decided to take action because the situation is so severe that they are now concerned for patient safety. The government's plan is to run the NHS down so that they can then try and convince us that privatisation is beneficial and necessary. We can afford the NHS if the money was going to the right places. A publicly funded health service is proven to be more economical than any private system. At the moment most of the NHS budget goes to paying off PFI debts and providing profit for all of the private companies who are contracted to work for the NHS which inludes some ambulances, pharmacy, catering, cleaning, agency staff etc, etc. http://999callfornhs.org.uk/footprints/4592357931

I think the only reason the government are getting private companies in is the public body is far to bureaucratic and doesn't work efficiently. They are trying to manage a behemoth. While the NHS should stay in the public domain it really needs to be run like a private company to work the efficiency. If you had ever worked with government here or anywhere else you would know what I mean!

Sorry but that is incorrect. The government are contracting services out because that is their plan, they want to make profit from our health care. They are not interested in patients or people, only profit. The CEO of NHS England, Simon Stevens, used to be part of the biggest health insuranace company in the USA. He was advisor to the Blairites and now he is in charge of NHS England. Much of our health care is privatised now and we are heading for the USA model which is appalling. The 2012 Health and Social Welfare Act removed the responsibilty of our health secretary of sate to provide health care in England. Only Wales and Scotland now have an NHS.

I have come to the conclusion after reading several articles in the newspapers today that the people working in the BMA hate the government, but also the sick, - so by calling this strike they can further the campaign against the vulnerable.....

Your mistake is in your opening comment!
As Mark Twain said about newspapers "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story!" Stop reading the newspapers and go out to the picket lines and ask the striking doctors what its all about!
The media are just mouthpieces of their respective political masters!

Anyone who still believes that the junior doctors are justified in striking should read this article by Dr Adam Dalby.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3770008/DR-ADAM-DALBY-used-support-strike-realise-ve-duped.html
He was once a supporter of the strikes but is now completely opposed having taken the time to read what has actually been offered to the doctors by the Government and Jeremy Hunt.
The BMA is pretending that this is all about patient safety when in fact it is clearly a politically motivated action aimed at derailing the Conservative party. Remember, the party was democratically elected with a manifesto to introduce 7 day care which it is now working towards delivering.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation are, no-one has the right to take industrial action which will undoubtedly cost lives and bring misery to thousands of people. A doctor is charged to 'do no harm'. Striking is totally against this tenet and is a completely unacceptable course of action.
All is revealed in this article and will remove any doubt that all right thinking doctors should refuse to strike. Find another way.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3770008/DR-ADAM-DALBY-used-support-strike-realise-ve-duped.html

I agree jeanmark, most of them are under the influence of Rupert Murdoch who has his own unpleasant agenda. I also refuse to subscribe to Sky TV for the same reason. Even the better newspapers have their own agenda as you point out. A good source of unbiased news is The Canary on line.

Intersting article and whilst agreeing with much of what is said with regard to how justified junior doctors are to strike, I still find it difficult to accept that changing their contract will lead to a full 7 day service across the board. Change is necessary to meet the needs of patients in the 21st century and that is well overdue but why do people believe this can only be achieved by changing junior doctors contracts. Doctors are only one cog in the health service and they are not able to provide care and treatment without the contribution of all other health care professionals and health care workers in general. What changes will the Government make to these people's working life in order to introduce a 24/7 service? They are already in discussion to end the NHS bursaries for Nurses, Midwives and Allied Health Professions which has the potential to reduce the number of people entering these. It must also be remembered that the Government have already ensured many essential services are contracted to private companies.

I do not support the strike action being taken but do ask myself if the Government are starting with the most challenging and strongest group. I hope I am wrong.

Patients in need are still receiving necessary treatment - there have even been reports of doctors on the picket line treating an emergency situation when, for example, somebody has collapsed in their presence. And consultants are covering the duties of striking junior doctors.

At a recent football match I attended, a member of the crowd collapsed and was treated by an OFF DUTY doctor until the paramedics were able to take him to hospital.

Personally, I speak as a patient - I'm due an appointment with my oncologist for what, is hopefully, my final check following breast cancer treatment. I know my appointment will doubtless be cancelled since it's non-urgent, but I do know that if I were still undergoing treatment, I would still be seen on the appointed day.

These doctors have my full support - my feeling is that the people who are against them probably haven't observed how hard they actually work while on duty, or realise that they often supply unpaid cover too.

jentie51 just to say I would expect a doctor on a picket line to help someone who had collapsed in front of them, goodness me it would have to be a very cold uncaring person to ignore someone in need. But they still choose to walk out on those people actually in hospital. Also someone collapsing at a football match, - again a person who had been trained to attend the injured or sick should really step forward. Members of the public with no medical training also step forward to help when needed.
I hope your appointment with your oncologist will be going ahead, - both my husband and I have had the big C, we know how crucial these appointments are. We have observed much during our treatment, - for sure we are very aware and grateful for the care we have received.

My intention is to point out out that whether officially on duty, striking or whatever, these wonderful doctors always step up to the mark & their commitment to their calling should be supported, not undermined, which this awful government is doing.

I know, - why not the whole country out on strike for five days, every month, - Junior Doctors, Paramedics, Train Drivers, Bus Drivers, Taxi Drivers, Shop Workers, Refuse Collectors, Teachers, Hairdressers, Child Minders, Electricians, Plumbers, Builders, - etc etc, - then the country would really grind to a halt, - and who would be blamed. Oh I know, Jeremy Hunt.

Probably not Jeremy Hunt as he is only responsible for the Health Service. I joke. Strikes are few and fra between thank goodness (look back to the 70s for that stupidity) but if workers need to strike as a last resort that is their right if they have voted in a majority.

I think it may actually come to a general strike in order to combat the present governments plans to privatise everything in sight, destroy our health service, our education system and take away all our rights, including our right to peaceful protest. Enough is enough and we cannot go on as we are. The doctors are making a stand and we all need to work together and do the same.

i believe, as with many other jobs, that the people working on the 'shop floor' know exactly what's going on, what's being covered up and what needs to be done! As with education, the government choose to ignore the reality and set up impossible, statistic based, goals! It's become all about numbers!! Not enough teachers, I wonder why! Not enough doctors! We hear about how more people are on anti-depressants, mental health issues and suicides! Maybe pressure to achieve the impossible may be one of the reasons?

I am thinking that if patients were called "customers" - perhaps doctors and especially those going on strike might start to think like people running a business, - and like people running their own business, the self employed, - I think if the government made doctors "self employed" - they would all act somewhat differently. Especially when you have to pay out......... to accountants - pay your tax, pay your VAT, pay premises rental, pay rates, pay electricity, pay business bank charges, pay vehicle charges - pay your staff, - it is all pay out, - all the time......but our "customers" always come first, - they have to - they are our "bread and butter", we are always mindful of that. Can anyone in their right mind imagine the "self employed" going on strike.- absolutely not.

If you look hard at the history of the NHS you will find the Government of the day worked very hard and offered incentives to get them to join the NHS rather than remain self-employed. GP's remain self-employed.

Would you also suggest other health care workers should be self-employed? They may not be going on strike but doctors would find it very hard to practice without these people even if patients were called 'customers'.

I believe that 'the labourer is worthy of his hire' and doctors should be well rewarded. However strike action should be a very last resort after all else has failed. This is not the case here. Further, when doctors leaders start gobbing off about "bringing down the Tories' it proves that there is a hidden agenda and the contract is merely a hook on which to hang political aims. The Hippocratic oath is non-political.
My message to the doctors is: Stop whining and start shining. You are educated, talented people look for new negotiations and positive solutions if you truly have your patients well being as your foremost core value.

Blocat, - love your post, - straight talking, - great..... In the newspaper today, "NHS England has stated that "no good for patients will come from Junior Doctors walking out of accident and emergency units for several days at a time". Well frankly this is just stating the obvious.
I think whatever the outcome, the reputation of so called medical professionals has been badly damaged.

I have never been so appalled as to hear this latest news concerning the junior doctors and their greed. It is unprofessional and unethical in the extreme for anyone in any branch of medicine to go on strike at their patients' expense for any reason. Having done so, to most people's disgust, on more than one occasion, an agreement was reached by the BMA and it was ratified. They are now reneging on their word so that they can repeat their unethical behaviour at short notice in order to do more damage to the NHS and their patients' health. Arthur Scargill, at the height of the violence of the Miner's Strike, would have been embarrassed at what these so-called professional people are doing in the name of greed.

Any of the Doctors that strike now should be dismissed instantly and have to re-apply for their own jobs - and those jobs should be handed out carefully and selectively, depending on the degree of involvement. Those at the BMA who are responsible for this should be fired on the spot and never again employed in medicine.

You are obviously unaware of the meaning of professionalism. I have worked as a professional in the NHS for 50 years and I know EXACTLY what the situation is - which is why I am appalled at the current lack of ethical standards of a group of people who put cash before their patients' well-being.

Well if you are a pharmacist working in a well known brand who has a chain of chemists in our hospitals I would question their ethics. They are one of the contracted out businesses who are pocketing the profits.

If you knew anything about medicine and/or pharmacy, you would know that "community" pharmacy implies just that, and has nothing to do with hospitals. If you knew anything at all about pharmacy specifically, you would know that it is in the worst state financially that it has ever been in a lifetime and that pharmacist's wages are lower than I have ever seen them, and are still falling. That certainly applies to locum pharmacists, and to most employees. But you obviously aren't well enough informed or sufficiently up to date to know that. I'm guessing you are a trade union shop steward or similar? Perhaps a failed left wing politician? Or both?

So, since 1948 how come all preceding trainee doctors signed their contracts and got on with the vocation not" the job " as its referred today. Training in medicine was a hard and difficult for a reason, after all these folk are dealing day to day ,hour to hour with people's lives and had to have the stamina to do so, so the training was tough but worthwhile at the end when patients felt cared for and not worrying if their operations were going to be cancelled.
Its a fact,that today many trainee doctors are women who find they can't manage work ( vocation)life,home,children and want medicine to be a 9-5 day and five day week, many not a few they can't stick the pace of work that they signed up for unlike their predecessors.
Maybe to many rethink their choice of career and leave it to those who really want to be doctors, to get on with their lives, contract or no contract and dont see it as meal ticket!
The BMA should hang their heads in shame that their leadership brings their profession to this level. How all this must be hurting the genuine young doctors.

That's a rather sexist and inflammatory comment and definitely not a fact. It may have slipped your notice but many health care professionals are woman and have been since the introduction of the NHS. Don't lay the blame for the problems of the modern NHS at the feet of women, most suffer as a result of being women already.

The tories battle cry at the last general election was "the nhs is safe with us" they made a big thing of the PM having a disabled child! All they have done since is cut, cut, cut the NHS, lets stand up with our doctors and say this is a cut to far !

The BMA endorsed the latest contract, but its members did not: 58 per cent rejected it. That's 58 per cent of the 37,000 who voted did. That's 21,500 or so, well under half of all juniors.

And even they weren't voting explicitly for a five day strike. In fact, they weren't voting for any sort of industrial action: the vote was on the contract, not how doctors should respond to it. It's a detail but an important one: the BMA isn't calling the five-day strike on the basis of the vote to reject the revised contract. The legal basis for action is a ballot of members on the original contract. A contract that doesn't exist any more. Is it any wonder some doctors, junior and senior alike, are increasingly despairing of the BMA and the noisy supporters of strikes. It's important to say not all doctors are stupid and selfish enough to support strike action that will do real harm to patients and the standing of the medical profession.

Last New Years Eve one of my friends had a fall and fractured her hip. The young paramedics came (and this was at midnight by now) she was taken to a local Surrey hospital. There was no doctor on call, she spent the next 2 days (remember this was New Year so included New Years Day) her leg was put in traction but she was not operated on until the day after that. Consequently she has a permanent limp because of the wait. I think that there should always be a doctor on call for emergencies. My son-in-law is a pilot and he is expected to work at seasonal holiday times. He Never gets the whole of the holiday off.

The NHS is now a sacred cow which no-one dares to touch.
Doctors cannot give unlimited amounts of time to patients nowadays, to chat is not an option; and this has to be done with nurses now; who also have time constraints. Doctors time is far too expensive and they could be getting on with important things elsewhere.
In my experience working in the NHS, some years ago, people only value what they pay for and can see the exchange of money - huge numbers of missed appointments cost vast amounts of money and resources. People are always citing the 'freeness' of the NHS as being vital to the UK. We cannot keep on giving away free treatment for overseas visitors for example, the NHS cannot be bothered to even try to collect payment. Most people carry insurance and passports for identification, it could be simple; but the NHS is reluctant beyond words. It needs to be their legal responsibility.
Waiting times could be dropped overnight if doctors would only do 24 hour shifts in operating theatres but they won't - to suggest such changes leads to outrage, but their time could then be used better. People would be treated sooner so their recovery would be easier. Unused theatre time is a disgrace.
Unfortunately most people just want cash chucked at the system but it will never solve the problems.

whilst I agree with some of your comments bea747. Reference what you said about people only valuing what they pay for - We must always remember that the NHS services are only free on the point of delivery, we as patients, who have paid our Tax and National Insurance have paid into the system, - I do not consider that what I am receiving is free. I have paid, and am still paying......but I totally agree about the UK offering free treatment to overseas patients, this is ludicrous. If you were in the USA requiring treatment I am sure the first thing requested would be a credit card. To my mind the admin in hospitals is far from good or universal. Some hospitals are probably better than others. Yes I do agree about surgeons utilising theatre time better, but it has to be remembered that most surgeons enjoy lucrative pay from the Private sector, - and so would not be willing to give up that part of their working week.

I don't disagree with your sentiments bea747 but I don't believe things are ever quite that simple. Theatres are open 24 hours for emergencies but I agree not for routine operations. The same can be said for a number of departments and yes, I agree it is a total waste of resources. However, doctors do not work in isolation, have you ever attended for an appointment when other health care workers are not involved. Providing a 24 hour total service isn't just down to doctors, other health care professionals also have to work and greater numbers are needed i.e. you need more than one nurse to care for patients. This would require extra money, most cuts to services relate to cutting lower paid jobs not medical posts. Recruitment at all levels is a problem and if plans to cut the NHS bursaries for Nurses, Midwives and Allied Health professionals gets the approval, there may be even less people available to recruit despite what universities state.

I would like to see a true 24 hour service but don't think it is feasible as things stand at present. Junior doctors striking will not help the situation for the NHS as a whole. They account for only one cog and would be ineffective if they didn't have support from everyone else.

Having just spend a week in East Surrey hospital I now see why the doctors need to change the appalling way they are treated. 12 hour shifts with no time to even have a drink or take their lunch break, trying to stay focused and spend time with each patient and explain to people who are anxious and afraid. There is no time to follow this before their buzzer takes them away to another patient. I was treated with the utmost respect and kindness and always with a smile and always with sorry, I need to go to another patient. The fact remains we need more doctors, more hospitals because there are more people.

...but looking after the sick is their job, - and should be carried out with dignity and respect, that is mandatory - as I have already posted unfortunately none of us can be sick to order, i.e. 9.00 a.m. to 5.00 pm, Monday to Friday. Hospitals are for sick people. Junior Doctors/medical staff look after the sick. Firemen take care of fires. The Police look after Crime, Teachers teach children, Ambulance people take the sick to hospital. Dustbin staff deal with our rubbish, etc etc That is what it is about. I would expect a Junior Doctor to treat me well, and likewise I would and definitely should be courteous and respectful to them, and always be mindful of the fact that I am not their only patient.
All of the care services have huge workloads, - that is a fact, - but hopefully they won't all be going on 5 day strikes. The country would grind to a halt.

If the CEO of NHS England, Simon Stevens, has his way there are a lot of hospital closures on the cards. People will have to travel further for treatment and there are plans for much more home treatment. There will be less qualified nursing staff and they will have the added stress of being asked to undertake tasks now done by the junior doctors. Hospitals are already taking hip, knee and cataract ops off their lists. We will have to pay for those. These are changes that the junior doctors are fighting and they need us all to support them. Do some research.

Yes BrumEJ43, that is their job and I won't disagree with what you have said but junior doctors already cover 24/7 and are not asking to only work 09.00 to 17.00, Monday to Friday. That isn't what the issues are about. A number of Consultants on the other hand do like those hours which is why many services stop at 1700 and only run Monday to Friday, junior doctors pick up the slack.

Yes I agree. The most important thing in life is to be well so if we need to spend even more on the NHS we should do it. I think most people would agree with this so long as the NHS brings efficiency. I do not agree with the huge payments some NHS managers get like that woman the other day who was "sacked" then reinstated on £250,000 per annum. That is total madness. There seems to be a gravytrain among top NHS managers and its a job for life. Even when they are useless they do not get the sack

Instead of giving away up to £14 billion every year in FORIEGN aid ( which we have to borrow ) , maybe we should be funding our NHS first and treating our doctors and nurses a lot better
Charity begins at home !

This is a copy of a post to the SS forums, with a couple of corrections.

Maybe all is not what it seems here, once again. Government is deeply involved and, as we've witnessed during the referendum campaign, truth is a stranger in Whitehall. From what I've read of him Hunt needs no hat to produce a white rabbit!

It does seem to me this is yet another state campaign to set the people against the medical profession. Well, in my household it just won't work! The Whitehall publicity machine is working flat out as I write and people, justified in their response to a forced acceptance of contracts, are being villified, demonized, and that is not justifiable.

I will say again, we all believe we may get world class health care on the cheap. No, we won't. There's no free lunches, someone has to pay.

The sooner we all realise the NHS, THE national treasure at the service of all of us in the UK, must be properly funded the better. If we want it, we pay for it else the private sector will move in (the state is well down the road on that front) and the NHS will become nothing better than a greasy spoon cafe. How many of us would take tea in such a place, let alone entrust our lives to the proprietors?

196 billion funding is not enough for the NHS to fulfill it's mission. With such a rapidly expanding population. 300 billion might be better.

Let's turn the tables. Tell our politicians, the NHS will tell you what they require for the next year and you go fund it! Erm, well, chaps, isn't that what we pay you for?

You may have guessed, I stand with the nurses, junior doctors, et al. We don't appreciate them until ... well, I'll leave that to you.

Just read your comments,are you for real .Would Hunt and the rest of his Tory mates work like Doctors,NO .They cannot wait to privatise it and get their murky hand on the NHS.Just look at the GPs surgeries amalgamating,also closing down ,and three weeks for an appointment.
So blaming Corbyn seems a bit stupid .

What the junior doctors dont get is that the ones who make the discisions of what they work and for how much do not use the nhs they have private medicine so striking only hits the ones who pay there wages not the descision makers so when they strike there laughing at them.

I have supported the junior doctors but if they strike for 5 days and plan other strikes then operations will be cancelled. My husband is due for an operation which is not life threatening but it is painful I am sure if there is a strike it will be cancelled leaving him in pain for longer.

I am sorry to here about your husband Lydia321. There is nothing worse than being in constant pain. I do not know your circumstances and hope all goes well for your husband. What I do know is that if the jnr doctors do not win the fight, the privatisation of our health care is well on the way. This will mean that we will have to pay for some ops like hip and knee, which will mean we will have to take out private insurance. Those of us who cannot afford to do so will remain in pain because an operation will be out of our grasp. Our hospitals will only be interested in performing operations that bring in the profits.

I do not agree with this. The UK is a free country and if someone wants to withdraw their services they are free to do it. What would you like a totalitarian state like the USSR or North Korea where if you don't work you don't eat? No thanks. Jeremy Hunt has already gone down a dangerous road by implementing the new contract without a mandate from junior doctors. Its wrong and he needs to get round the negotiating table again. And I vote conservative!

My daughter had to wait four months for another consultant appointment after her March one was cancelled due to the doctors strike.
As a retired NHS nurse I have sympathy with the doctors but five day strikes would be catastrophic for out patients and anyone waiting for procedures.
I wish Jeremy Hunt had Been replaced in the change of cabinet, there needs to be serious reconsideration on the change of contracts issue.

This is Great Britain. We do not impose contracts on staff. We negotiate. Jeremy Hunt needs to get back round a table and sort this out. I think the terms actually look quite fair and with only 58% of doctors opposing it he just needs to make a few tweaks and he is there.The staffs morale is suffering, patients are suffering. He needs to get a grip or go! Its that simple.

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