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Topic: Is smoking marijuana a sin? (Read 47837 times)

Would he, given an opportunity, have smoked a bong in front of the disciples, thereby legitimising and encouraging the disciples (and everyone for all time), partaking this drug? Anyone want to seriously make that claim?

Would he, given an opportunity, have smoked a bong in front of the disciples, thereby legitimising and encouraging the disciples (and everyone for all time), partaking this drug? Anyone want to seriously make that claim?

I've always hated the WWJD argument, since it gives us the perfect opportunity to project onto Jesus our own personal likes and dislikes.

Would he, given an opportunity, have smoked a bong in front of the disciples, thereby legitimising and encouraging the disciples (and everyone for all time), partaking this drug? Anyone want to seriously make that claim?

I've always hated the WWJD argument, since it gives us the perfect opportunity to project onto Jesus our own personal likes and dislikes.

Hmm. The Orthodox Christian is called to be renewed into the proper image and likeness of God, and Christ as God's perfect image. How are you going to do that without taking your best shot at figuring out what Jesus would do? Imitate me as I imitate Christ Paul said. You seem to think that is a lost cause.

Would he, given an opportunity, have smoked a bong in front of the disciples, thereby legitimising and encouraging the disciples (and everyone for all time), partaking this drug? Anyone want to seriously make that claim?

Would he, given an opportunity, have smoked a bong in front of the disciples, thereby legitimising and encouraging the disciples (and everyone for all time), partaking this drug? Anyone want to seriously make that claim?

He did that with other drugs.

Such as?

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Would he, given an opportunity, have smoked a bong in front of the disciples, thereby legitimising and encouraging the disciples (and everyone for all time), partaking this drug? Anyone want to seriously make that claim?

Would he, given an opportunity, have smoked a bong in front of the disciples, thereby legitimising and encouraging the disciples (and everyone for all time), partaking this drug? Anyone want to seriously make that claim?

I've always hated the WWJD argument, since it gives us the perfect opportunity to project onto Jesus our own personal likes and dislikes.

Agreed

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“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

Would he, given an opportunity, have smoked a bong in front of the disciples, thereby legitimising and encouraging the disciples (and everyone for all time), partaking this drug? Anyone want to seriously make that claim?

He did that with other drugs.

Such as?

Ethanol.

You said drugs. Plural. What else did Jesus use?

Ethanol doesn't count, as not only was it legal in His time and still is, but there is no evidence whatsoever that Jesus drank to the point of drunkenness.

« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 12:29:53 PM by LBK »

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No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to PM me or email me at the address in my profile.

Would he, given an opportunity, have smoked a bong in front of the disciples, thereby legitimising and encouraging the disciples (and everyone for all time), partaking this drug? Anyone want to seriously make that claim?

He did that with other drugs.

Such as?

Ethanol.

You said drugs. Plural. What else did Jesus use?

Isn't that enough?

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Ethanol doesn't count, as not only was it legal in His time and still is,

What does that have to the fact for it being a drug?

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but there is no evidence whatsoever that Jesus drank to the point of drunkenness.

Would he, given an opportunity, have smoked a bong in front of the disciples, thereby legitimising and encouraging the disciples (and everyone for all time), partaking this drug? Anyone want to seriously make that claim?

I've always hated the WWJD argument, since it gives us the perfect opportunity to project onto Jesus our own personal likes and dislikes.

Hmm. The Orthodox Christian is called to be renewed into the proper image and likeness of God, and Christ as God's perfect image. How are you going to do that without taking your best shot at figuring out what Jesus would do? Imitate me as I imitate Christ Paul said. You seem to think that is a lost cause.

No. I just don't like seeing WWJD thrown around with no reference to the Gospel as our definitive authority of what Jesus would do. Without reference to the Gospel, all we have is whatever personal opinions we wish to project onto Jesus.

Would he, given an opportunity, have smoked a bong in front of the disciples, thereby legitimising and encouraging the disciples (and everyone for all time), partaking this drug? Anyone want to seriously make that claim?

Would he, given an opportunity, have smoked a bong in front of the disciples, thereby legitimising and encouraging the disciples (and everyone for all time), partaking this drug? Anyone want to seriously make that claim?

He did that with other drugs.

How is what Mike said blasphemy? We cannot address the logic of his claim, so we get emotional and throw down the blasphemy card? I see a bit too much willingness to do that on this thread, and I don't think it productive.

My first post ! Personally, I am a regular marijuana smoker and I see no sin in it. It is not as if the plant is some synthetic chemical. If God caused the plant to naturally grow, and Genesis 9:3 clearly tells us "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.", then why not? Sure Paul told us to obey the law of the land, but that verse was under the assumption that the law would be fair and not contradict our faith. Surely, denying and condemning the use of one of God's creation can't be biblically correct? In context, you will see that Paul's intent when writing that was to make sure that us Christians would be good, disruptive citizens who pay our taxes, and fulfill our civic obligations. None of which are affected by smoking marijuana. Truly this "if it feels good then stop no matter what" attitude is what turn many away from Christ.

Personally, marijauna has vastly helped me in my spirituality. One of my favorite things to do is get high and walk around outside, experiencing nature. The state makes you feel one with God's creation. The songs of the birds sound more beautiful, the trees look great, the breeze feels even better, everything is more interesting. I also love to listen to Liturgical and other Christian music after "getting high". It makes my prayer and meditation much more effective. I feel such a powerful closeness with Christ. It really is beautiful.

My first post ! Personally, I am a regular marijuana smoker and I see no sin in it. It is not as if the plant is some synthetic chemical. If God caused the plant to naturally grow, and Genesis 9:3 clearly tells us "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.", then why not? Sure Paul told us to obey the law of the land, but that verse was under the assumption that the law would be fair and not contradict our faith. Surely, denying and condemning the use of one of God's creation can't be biblically correct? In context, you will see that Paul's intent when writing that was to make sure that us Christians would be good, disruptive citizens who pay our taxes, and fulfill our civic obligations. None of which are affected by smoking marijuana. Truly this "if it feels good then stop no matter what" attitude is what turn many away from Christ.

Personally, marijauna has vastly helped me in my spirituality. One of my favorite things to do is get high and walk around outside, experiencing nature. The state makes you feel one with God's creation. The songs of the birds sound more beautiful, the trees look great, the breeze feels even better, everything is more interesting. I also love to listen to Liturgical and other Christian music after "getting high". It makes my prayer and meditation much more effective. I feel such a powerful closeness with Christ. It really is beautiful.

My first post ! Personally, I am a regular marijuana smoker and I see no sin in it. It is not as if the plant is some synthetic chemical. If God caused the plant to naturally grow, and Genesis 9:3 clearly tells us "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.", then why not? Sure Paul told us to obey the law of the land, but that verse was under the assumption that the law would be fair and not contradict our faith. Surely, denying and condemning the use of one of God's creation can't be biblically correct? In context, you will see that Paul's intent when writing that was to make sure that us Christians would be good, disruptive citizens who pay our taxes, and fulfill our civic obligations. None of which are affected by smoking marijuana. Truly this "if it feels good then stop no matter what" attitude is what turn many away from Christ.

Personally, marijauna has vastly helped me in my spirituality. One of my favorite things to do is get high and walk around outside, experiencing nature. The state makes you feel one with God's creation. The songs of the birds sound more beautiful, the trees look great, the breeze feels even better, everything is more interesting. I also love to listen to Liturgical and other Christian music after "getting high". It makes my prayer and meditation much more effective. I feel such a powerful closeness with Christ. It really is beautiful.

My first post ! Personally, I am a regular marijuana smoker and I see no sin in it. It is not as if the plant is some synthetic chemical. If God caused the plant to naturally grow, and Genesis 9:3 clearly tells us "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.", then why not?

Given you the green plants.... to smoke? It is healthy to smoke every plant on earth? I think not.

Or eat? Is it healthy to eat every berry you come across?

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Sure Paul told us to obey the law of the land, but that verse was under the assumption that the law would be fair and not contradict our faith. Surely, denying and condemning the use of one of God's creation can't be biblically correct?

So... making a law against feeding your kids poison berries would be contradicting your faith, because it would be condemning the use of God's creation?

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In context, you will see that Paul's intent when writing that was to make sure that us Christians would be good, disruptive citizens who pay our taxes, and fulfill our civic obligations. None of which are affected by smoking marijuana.

My ex-wife dropped in to say hello just 10 minutes ago. She went up with my son to collect some of her possessions from her friend's place. Her friend's pot smoking husband threatened violence against my son for no reason, and the police had to be called in.

Oh, but I guess none of this is disruptive to society or our civic obligations.... Riiight...

It's a simple fact that marijuana makes you paranoid, and paranoia is disruptive to EVERYTHING.

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Truly this "if it feels good then stop no matter what" attitude is what turn many away from Christ.

I'm not going to be the one who says you should stop doing it because it feels good. I'm saying you should stop it because its a dangerous drug that rots your brain.

Would he, given an opportunity, have smoked a bong in front of the disciples, thereby legitimising and encouraging the disciples (and everyone for all time), partaking this drug? Anyone want to seriously make that claim?

He did that with other drugs.

[im[/img]

How is what Mike said blasphemy? We cannot address the logic of his claim, so we get emotional and throw down the blasphemy card? I see a bit too much willingness to do that on this thread, and I don't think it productive.

Stating that God would smoke a bong... come on now. Who are we to say what God would and wouldn't do.

Given you the green plants.... to smoke? It is healthy to smoke every plant on earth? I think not.

Or eat? Is it healthy to eat every berry you come across?

Of course not. You've actually helped my argument. Just like its not healthy to eat every berry we see, but it is healthy to eat some of the berries we see because the fact that they are digestible and healthy mean that they were intended for our consumption. Why should the same principle not apply to certain plants for smoking?

Quote from: zaphod

So... making a law against feeding your kids poison berries would be contradicting your faith, because it would be condemning the use of God's creation?

Nope, because evidently, those poison berries were not intended for our consumption

Quote from: zaphod

My ex-wife dropped in to say hello just 10 minutes ago. She went up with my son to collect some of her possessions from her friend's place. Her friend's pot smoking husband threatened violence against my son for no reason, and the police had to be called in

Oh, but I guess none of this is disruptive to society or our civic obligations.... Riiight...

From what I can tell, your friend's pot-smoking husband may have some deeper issues than just marijuana. Just like angry drunkards usually have issues that run deeper than the chronic alcohol consumption itself.

Quote from: zaphod

It's a simple fact that marijuana makes you paranoid, and paranoia is disruptive to EVERYTHING.

In my experience, the only paranoia I feel when enjoying marijuana is the fear of getting caught. Beyond that, if anything, it has the exact opposite effect. But don't take my word for it! By all means, I encourage you to give it a try once or twice

Quote from: zaphod

I'm not going to be the one who says you should stop doing it because it feels good. I'm saying you should stop it because its a dangerous drug that rots your brain.

Many studies would disagree with that statement. Although I won't argue that it does make one very lazy and lethargic which is why I save it for my obligations are taken care of and for meditation/prayer/relaxation time.

My first post ! Personally, I am a regular marijuana smoker and I see no sin in it. It is not as if the plant is some synthetic chemical. If God caused the plant to naturally grow, and Genesis 9:3 clearly tells us "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.", then why not?

Given you the green plants.... to smoke? It is healthy to smoke every plant on earth? I think not.

Or eat? Is it healthy to eat every berry you come across?

Quote

Sure Paul told us to obey the law of the land, but that verse was under the assumption that the law would be fair and not contradict our faith. Surely, denying and condemning the use of one of God's creation can't be biblically correct?

So... making a law against feeding your kids poison berries would be contradicting your faith, because it would be condemning the use of God's creation?

Quote

In context, you will see that Paul's intent when writing that was to make sure that us Christians would be good, disruptive citizens who pay our taxes, and fulfill our civic obligations. None of which are affected by smoking marijuana.

My ex-wife dropped in to say hello just 10 minutes ago. She went up with my son to collect some of her possessions from her friend's place. Her friend's pot smoking husband threatened violence against my son for no reason, and the police had to be called in.

Oh, but I guess none of this is disruptive to society or our civic obligations.... Riiight...

It's a simple fact that marijuana makes you paranoid, and paranoia is disruptive to EVERYTHING.

It is? You got any research to back this up? Anecdotal evidence about your ex-wife's friend's pot smoking husband doesn't count.

Would he, given an opportunity, have smoked a bong in front of the disciples, thereby legitimising and encouraging the disciples (and everyone for all time), partaking this drug? Anyone want to seriously make that claim?

He did that with other drugs.

[im[/img]

How is what Mike said blasphemy? We cannot address the logic of his claim, so we get emotional and throw down the blasphemy card? I see a bit too much willingness to do that on this thread, and I don't think it productive.

Stating that God would smoke a bong... come on now. Who are we to say what God would and wouldn't do.

That doesn't address my question about how what Mike said is blasphemy.

Given you the green plants.... to smoke? It is healthy to smoke every plant on earth? I think not.

Or eat? Is it healthy to eat every berry you come across?

Of course not. You've actually helped my argument. Just like its not healthy to eat every berry we see, but it is healthy to eat some of the berries we see because the fact that they are digestible and healthy mean that they were intended for our consumption.

Whether marijuana is healthy or not is the very point at dispute. That it changes the way you think would at least presumptively make us assume "no".

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Why should the same principle not apply to certain plants for smoking?

Quote from: zaphod

So... making a law against feeding your kids poison berries would be contradicting your faith, because it would be condemning the use of God's creation?

Nope, because evidently, those poison berries were not intended for our consumption

I turn it around and ask why would it include smoking? Why would smoking be something natural that God designed plants for? Do you see any other animals smoking stuff? Did the Israelites in the time of Moses when Genesis was written smoke? Hermeneutics 101.

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From what I can tell, your friend's pot-smoking husband may have some deeper issues than just marijuana. Just like angry drunkards usually have issues that run deeper than the chronic alcohol consumption itself.

Whether that be the case is really irrelevant. As we know, drunkards and addicts are incapable of dealing with their issues. If inability to deal with your other issues were the only problem with marijuana, that would be enough to condemn it. But that isn't its only issue.

Would you claim that alcohol has no detrimental effects on families because angry drunk husbands who beat up their wives... oh well they probably had other issues?

Yup, my wife did me physical violence under the influence of marijuana. She NEVER did any such thing when she was sober.

Oh... but its ok, because I guess she had "other issues".

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In my experience, the only paranoia I feel when enjoying marijuana is the fear of getting caught. Beyond that, if anything, it has the exact opposite effect. But don't take my word for it! By all means, I encourage you to give it a try once or twice

That you haven't yet experienced paranoia, doesn't mean it won't happen. It just means that lies ahead of you. I haven't experienced a road accident drunk driving yet, but it doesn't mean it won't happen if I continue a certain behavior.

Quote from: zaphod

I'm not going to be the one who says you should stop doing it because it feels good. I'm saying you should stop it because its a dangerous drug that rots your brain.

Quote

Many studies would disagree with that statement.

Which serious medical studies conclude that marijuana has no detrimental effects on your mind?

It's a simple fact that marijuana makes you paranoid, and paranoia is disruptive to EVERYTHING.

It is? You got any research to back this up? Anecdotal evidence about your ex-wife's friend's pot smoking husband doesn't count.

Really? I really have to prove what is common knowledge? Google marijuana and paranoid, and just see how many posts there are on marijuana user's message boards about what to do for paranoia.

If you want a scientist to say it, Scientific American says that common results of marijuana include "paranoia and irritability". The British Journal of Psychiatry says the most common adverse effects of marijuana are feelings of anxiety, paranoia or depression.

I mean, if you really want a fake high from drugs, why choose one that can make you depressed, anxious and paranoid?

If you want a scientist to say it, Scientific American says that common results of marijuana include "paranoia and irritability". The British Journal of Psychiatry says the most common adverse effects of marijuana are feelings of anxiety, paranoia or depression.

AFAIK, you could just be making this stuff up and attributing it to scientists. Can you post any links to the above statements?

Whether marijuana is healthy or not is the very point at dispute. That it changes the way you think would at least presumptively make us assume "no".

Why does the fact that it changes the way you think, make you lean towards no? Have you ever considered that, perhaps changing the way you think can be a positive thing? For me, I love that it changes the way I think, but in a great way! My imagination has been stretched, and I am much more creative. Not to mention the fact that, I am much more relaxed and calm in situations.

I turn it around and ask why would it include smoking? Why would smoking be something natural that God designed plants for? Do you see any other animals smoking stuff? Did the Israelites in the time of Moses when Genesis was written smoke? Hermeneutics 101.

The fact that those chemicals in the plants react with our bodies to produce that oh so pleasant feeling means to me that God intended the plants for our use. And so what if the Israelites didn't smoke marijuana? Just because the Israelites or Jesus didn't do something, doesn't mean that they by default would have disapproved of it.

Would you claim that alcohol has no detrimental effects on families because angry drunk husbands who beat up their wives... oh well they probably had other issues?

No, but I wouldn't use that to justify total abstinence of it as a whole. Alcohol is an organic compound material God made and approved for our consumption. When used in moderation, it is great to loosen up and have a good time. When abused...Well, you know how that goes. I would say that almost every single one of those drunk, abusive husbands all had deeper emotional, financial, or marital problems that needed to be addressed before the alcohol. Deal with those issues, and the alcohol issue would usually be much easier to solve. Same with weed.

Yup, my wife did me physical violence under the influence of marijuana. She NEVER did any such thing when she was sober.

Oh... but its ok, because I guess she had "other issues".

Now, as much as I doubt it, it could be possible that your wife, could be in that small minority of people that for whatever reason, she reacts horribly to marijuana, in which case I would advise her to get off of it. But , I would refrain from using her in your perception of how marijuana as a whole feels for society as a whole. I have a challenge for you. Try it yourself! I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. I challenge you to smoke marijuana yourself 2-3 times (usually people mess up their first time) and report your experiences back here. I will be very surprised if you don't change your mind.

That you haven't yet experienced paranoia, doesn't mean it won't happen. It just means that lies ahead of you. I haven't experienced a road accident drunk driving yet, but it doesn't mean it won't happen if I continue a certain behavior.

Any paranoia I feel, is very minimal and overwhelmed in the sea of bliss I feel.

Any paranoia I feel, is very minimal and overwhelmed in the sea of bliss I feel.

Any psychosis?

Psychosis - a mental illness that markedly interferes with a person's capacity to meet life's everyday demands. In a specific sense, it refers to a thought disorder in which reality testing is grossly impaired.

I don't know. I might try it once just to see what it's like, but after that I would really have to have a use for it to continue smoking it.

I can't remember, you talked about medical benefits in the past right?

I do recall talking about that. However, the medical benefits I talked about apply only to specific conditions such as glaucoma, chemotherapy, and AIDS. I don't recall mentioning any general health benefits of smoking marijuana, if there are any.

I don't know. I might try it once just to see what it's like, but after that I would really have to have a use for it to continue smoking it.

I can't remember, you talked about medical benefits in the past right?

We've gone through all the normal arguments in favor of marijuana not being categorically worse than alcohol (i.e. not a sin). From those arguing that it is a sin, we have seen anecdotal evidince, cultural rhetoric, quotes from saints that are off-topic and condemnation. BTW, anecdotal evidence goes both ways. They make it seem like we are arguing that it is okay to be a sketchy psycho pot-head.

To further bring you up to speed, whenever someone brings up a well-thought out argument complete with statistics in favor of it not being a sin, they are greeted with responses such as "That's so wrong" and "Why are you promoting sin?!" Sometimes they just respond to whole arguments with one or two words or even just some sort of smiley face.

At this point we are still waiting for the usual suspect(s) to produce reasons for why alcohol and drinking is okay but taking a hit off a joint is not.

Also, Bob Marley died of cancer. He smoked a lot of pot before he died, and yet he didn't see 40 in life. I have outlived him.

Why?

There is absolutely no evidence to support the insinuation that Bob Marley's cancer was caused by his marijuana use. The cancer began in his toe, after he injured it playing soccer, then spread from there. I'm glad you have lived as long as you have, but it seems a bit judgmental and self-righteous to imply Bob died because he smoked herb.

Selam

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"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."Selam, +GMK+

Also, Bob Marley died of cancer. He smoked a lot of pot before he died, and yet he didn't see 40 in life. I have outlived him.

Why?

There is absolutely no evidence to support the insinuation that Bob Marley's cancer was caused by his marijuana use. The cancer began in his toe, after he injured it playing soccer, then spread from there. I'm glad you have lived as long as you have, but it seems a bit judgmental and self-righteous to imply Bob died because he smoked herb.

Selam

Look, the point is that Bob smoked pot and was therefore selfish, aggressive, unmotivated and disorganized. He was rude to people and frequently lept to judgement. Oh no... wait...

It turns out that he was a deeply inspiring individual who wrote and recorded timeless music and went on world tour consistently while fervently advocating for peace. Apparently he was also incredibly faithful. All this while being one of the most well-known marijuana smokers in history! He even had the drive to perform live shortly after being shot in an assassination attempt. Not bad!

« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 06:43:20 AM by john_mo »

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Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

Also, Bob Marley died of cancer. He smoked a lot of pot before he died, and yet he didn't see 40 in life. I have outlived him.

Why?

There is absolutely no evidence to support the insinuation that Bob Marley's cancer was caused by his marijuana use. The cancer began in his toe, after he injured it playing soccer, then spread from there. I'm glad you have lived as long as you have, but it seems a bit judgmental and self-righteous to imply Bob died because he smoked herb.

Selam

Look, the point is that Bob smoked pot and was therefore selfish, aggressive, unmotivated and disorganized. He was rude to people and frequently lept to judgement. Oh no... wait...

It turns out that he was a deeply inspiring individual who wrote and recorded timeless music and went on world tour consistently while fervently advocating for peace. Apparently he was also incredibly faithful. All this while being one of the most well-known marijuana smokers in history! He even had the drive to perform live shortly after being shot in an assassination attempt. Not bad!

True indeed. Although before his baptism he struggled with infidelity.

Selam

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"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."Selam, +GMK+

Not sure I would want to pin whether pot is good or bad on the complex life of one man, or jump to conclusions about why his life was cut short. Judgement on him is reserved to the Day of Judgement and not here.