WoMD ... so where are they?

We were told that they had WoMD as a certaintly because they knew exactly where they were. Remember all the satellite photo's of the bakery oops "weapons factory"?

this statement has been and continues to be a complete figment of simons imagination.

simon, youve been called on it several times, yet you keep reguritating it at will......if we would have EVER known exactly where the wmd were, we would have been able to easily give this information to the weapons inspectors at the time......no one from the u.s. has ever claimed to know "exactly where they were" at any time....i believe you know this, and have known it all along, but intentionally twist the truth to make the u.s. look worse. if you have a link showing where anyone from the u.s. government claimed to know "exactly where" these "weapons factories" were, id absolutely love to read it.

as i recall, the majority of the photos shown by powell were of mobile factories (basically chem labs in trucks)......so unless there was 24 hour surveilance on these trucks, theres no possible way we would ever have known "exactly where they were". aside from that, there were plenty of "suspected sites", but they were never confirmed to be wmd sites (and they were never called anything but "suspected"). there still are over a thousand suspected sites that havent been searched as of yet, according to the latest report i saw.

i think its save to say that the US gov. lied to you and the rest of the world. it was already very obvious even before the war started (blix and his team had dismantled the poorly fabricated lies powell presented to the UN within a few hours)....now its a fact that even you should try to get used to.

i respect your opinion....and i have no doubt that my goverment lies to me on a regular basis (every government does, id argue).......thats the nature of the beast. i have said from the beginning that my beliefs about the wmd in iraq have nothing to do with anything the u.s. government has presented as "evidence", so it confuses me that you keep coming back to these "lies" when discussing this with me.?. in any event, all i was pointing out with that last post is that the u.s. never claimed to know "exactly where" the wmd were......which is just a fabrication that simon keeps repeating.

Sorry to interject, I'm as curious as anyone as to how WMD continue to elude detection by the US forces after their takeover/liberation of Iraq.

But, in the Tuskegee Incident, no one was "injected" with syphilis.

Men diagnosed with syphilis were simply not told and were marked for follow-up to track the disease, based on race.

It was a disgusting and vile project that led to unnecessary deaths, the actions of all involved were abhorent, and need no embellishment.

I apologize. You are absolutely correct. In the heat of the moment while typing a passionate post I wrote something that was incorrect and misleading.

While the United States government never injected people with syphilis..the reality of what happened was far worse.

To be mislead by physicians who knowingly give you a misdiagnosis of "having bad blood" when they knew it to be syphilis, and given a placebo in order to track the effects of syphilis as it ravaged the patient's bodies... instead of treating it properly with penicillin... is INHUMANE and UNTHINKABLE.

At the very same time Americans were participating in war tribunals at Nuremberg criticizing the Nazis for their inhumane treatment of individuals without their consent, American physicians were doing the very same thing on United States soil... that is conducting experiments on PEOPLE without their knowledge.

The United States government is guilty of just as many atrocities as any other government, if not more so when considering Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and other events. Yet for some reason United States politicians like to claim the moral ground when giving their rationale for taking action.

dubla -

I must respectfully disagree with your statement. You are desperately trying to defend the indefensible. Colin Powell marched in front of the United Nations and provided so-called evidence that they were certain beyond any doubt whatsoever that the Iraqi government was developing Weapons of Mass Destruction. If the United States intelligence was so effective so as to take satellite imagery of locations believed to be factories for production, even going as far to provide detailed photographs demonstrating how they changed from day to day... yet now that the United States has TOTAL DOMINANCE of the sovereign state of Iraq, and can go as they please throughout the country, and in a matter of weeks is UNABLE to FIND ANYTHING.. when prior to the war they justified the very conflict by stating they KNEW the Iraqis have weapons, and they had the intelligence to provide evidence... who really is being duped here?

It is no coincidence that Halliburton and other oil companies with ties to Cheney and Bush are getting contracts worth billions of dollars.

It is no coincidence that Bush wanted this war because of the humiliation of his father (not to mention Hussein attempted to assassinate George H.W. Bush) and a desire to finish what his father did not 12 years ago.

It is no coincidence of all members of the "Axis of Evil", Iraq was the smallest threat and yet Bush went after them anyway... he had a vendetta.

A politician should not use his office and taxpayer money to wage personal wars. If a country had the capacity and invaded and conquered the United States because the foreign invaders intelligence stated they were without a doubt developing weapons, and yet after the war no weapons were found.. would you be so quick to defend that course of action? After all, the remaining premise was that Hussein was a tyrannical dictator who gassed his own people.. the United States government has done the same. In fact, as governor, George W. Bush is the RECORDHOLDER for the most EXECUTIONS of HIS OWN CITIZENS. While Illinois and other states have issued a moratorium on the death sentence because DNA evidence was proving that some men to be executed were in fact INNOCENT.. did Bush ever show clemency or take the time to realize something was wrong with the system? NO. Texas accounts for more than one-third of the 835 executions in the United States since 1976, when the death penalty resumed under a Supreme Court ruling. Virginia is a distant second with 87. Under George W. Bush's tenure, he set a RECORD of 152 executions in 5 years as Texas Governor. This averages 30 executions a year, or 2.5 executions a month.

KILL THEM ALL was his course of action.

and although some Bush defenders may find this site offensive, I got a good laugh out of it:

Not to veer off topic (which is exactly what I did) but to label other countries as vile and evil and somehow believe the United States or George W. Bush as morally superior or rightfully has the position of defender of justice for all is hogwash.

I must respectfully disagree with your statement. You are desperately trying to defend the indefensible. Colin Powell marched in front of the United Nations and provided so-called evidence that they were certain beyond any doubt whatsoever that the Iraqi government was developing Weapons of Mass Destruction.

i have no doubt that the iraqi government was developing wmd, but thats not what i was trying to defend. in fact, i wasnt defending powell or his "evidence" in any way shape or form. what i was defending (and not even close to "desperately"....its quite simple actually) is the fact that the u.s. government never claimed to know "exactly" where the confirmed wmd factories were. again, if you believe this statement to be untrue, a simple link to back up your (and simons) belief on the matter could be very helpful. as far as i can recall, the majority of the images were of mobile weapons labs, and the stationary "factories" were merely "suspected" sites, nothing more, nothing less.

the rest of your post is simply a regurgitation of the typical antiwar arguments against the war and bush, etc......and have already been discussed ad naseum, so ill leave that for someone else to pick apart, if they wish.

simon, youve been called on it several times, yet you keep reguritating it at will......if we would have EVER known exactly where the wmd were, we would have been able to easily give this information to the weapons inspectors at the time......no one from the u.s. has ever claimed to know "exactly where they were" at any time....i believe you know this, and have known it all along, but intentionally twist the truth to make the u.s. look worse. if you have a link showing where anyone from the u.s. government claimed to know "exactly where" these "weapons factories" were, id absolutely love to read it.

as i recall, the majority of the photos shown by powell were of mobile factories (basically chem labs in trucks)......so unless there was 24 hour surveilance on these trucks, theres no possible way we would ever have known "exactly where they were". aside from that, there were plenty of "suspected sites", but they were never confirmed to be wmd sites (and they were never called anything but "suspected"). there still are over a thousand suspected sites that havent been searched as of yet, according to the latest report i saw.

I'm sorry dubla, but you are just plain wrong on this and you are the one that is trying to regurgitate something after being called on it several times.

FACT: Colin Powell showed photo's of installations at the UN

FACT: Said installations were labelled as weapons factories and storage

FACT: The USA refused to divulge locations to the UN weapons inspectors

FACT: The other 'evidence' that could be corroborated was shown to be fabricated

FACT: Lies have knowingly been told.

Some links for you to review so you can refresh your obviously faulty or selective memory:

As far as I'm concerned, those weapons of mass destruction have already been found. They are the "hands" of those cut-throats who have killed and maimed hundreds of their own people to gain power and control.

I really don't care if they don't find certain containers of germs or bombs or anything else. This is enough for me. And enough reason to go in and save those poor people who deserve a chance in life, to live somewhat normally, ruled by a government that is much more decent and humane than what they've had to endure under Saddam.

so when does the US attack syria, turkey, iran, russia, algeria, isreal, china, NK, etc. etc.??? are you gonna attack every country that has a dictatorship that kills innocent people? when are you gonna overthrow your own government for the crimes it committs against the world?

We were told that they had WoMD as a certaintly because they knew exactly where they were. Remember all the satellite photo's of the bakery oops "weapons factory"?

We were told there were hundreds or thousands of tons of chemical weapons, not some little petri-dish somewhere

It was all fabricated lies as came out from the faked nuclear documents and re-hashed docs they had downloaded and edited off the internet

I believe they knew for a fact that there were not WoMD there ... they just wanted an 'excuse' for their war. They did everything they could to scupper inspections and hurry things along when Iraq was cooperating (destroying missiles for instance)

1)Where are those weapons factories? You should be able to post exact GPS postions for me. Where are they right now? Tell me or you are lying. Tell me NOW, RIGHT now I want to know. WHere are those rolling doughnut makers? Where are they. Whatever they are they exist and you have to tell me where they are right now!

2) Saddam's propaganda machine said that they distroyed all the missing WoMD agents. But they refused to say how or where they distroyed them. So now you have to give me proof that they were distroyed so do that while giving you information about the locations of the labs/bakery.

3)Did you truly believe that Iraq never had a weapons program? Do you really believe that those forces and rouge nations in the middle east and elsewhere don't have them now? You ignore the missle. I guess delivery systems are irrelevent?

4) That seems oftley Mulderish to me Simon but I'm glad you are on top of it. I feel much safer now. Any non internet anti US/Bush (Moorish) proof of that?

5) It seems that you really believe that the Middle East & Iraq was toothless. That is scary that you could be so willfully stupid.

Simon stop and think. Even if they find the stored WMD or of proof that it existed would that change your polarized postion that a preemptive war was unjustified? We know that Korea is in direct violation of WMD development. They admit it. So, do you believe that a preemptive war with them would be just?

My stance on all this is so simple. Saddam and his henchmen must go. (And they did) WMD as the reason? Fine. Oil security? Fine. UN resolution violations? Fine. That we hate his hairstyle? Fine. I also think that the US owes Iraq a rebuilt nation, WMD found or not. I am angry that a small group of Mooreinites refuse to call the UN santions UN santions when that is what they were. They refuse to see that as long as countires continue to do business with Iraq outside of the UN then santions were useless. They refuse to believe anything that goes against what the TV says is reality. They refuse to read real books on the issues or learn the history of the region and the politics involved. (Which gives so much ammo to all sides) People were dying in Iraq before this war people. But, right now is the best chance to make some real changes for people over there. And the Iranian concept of an Islamic nation in Iraq would go against the direction that Iran is taking for itself. So anti-Amercian chanting in the south? So what...They have many reasons to be very angry. The US now says that UN santions should be lifted. If they are not then the US needs to continue on its own path.