Glenn Beck, Frances Fox Piven, and How the New York Times Falsely Depicts the Controversy

Death threats are no small matter, and are to be taken very seriously. I know how upsetting they can be because in the 1980s, I was subject to them myself. After The Rosenberg File was published and received a favorable front-page review by Alan Dershowitz in The New York Times Book Review, I began to get phone calls threatening my family and me, many of them around 3 am in the morning. One caller told me: “I know where your children live and their school schedule, and you and they better watch out, because we will get you.” I phoned the police who came to my apartment the next day, and we discussed if there was any way to identify the callers and put a stop to them.

Nothing happened, the calls stopped, and I’m still here. But the threats were quite unnerving, I assure you. The threats I received came from the pro-Communist Left, who considered me a traitor for proclaiming the Rosenbergs to be Soviet spies. So I am more than sympathetic to the plight of Frances Fox Piven, who, evidently, has received scores of threatening e-mails from people who do not agree with her politics. The editors of the leftist magazine The Nation, where Piven’s writings have appeared consistently since the 1960s, call her “distinguished professor, legendary activist, writer and longtime contributor to this magazine.” The last characterization is the only correct one, although, I’m sure she is “legendary” in their circles.

According to a report by Brian Stelter in Saturday’s New York Times, titled “Spotlight From Glenn Beck Brings a CUNY Professor Threats,” threatening posts aimed at Fox Piven have appeared on Glenn Beck’s website, TheBlaze.com, although the proprietors of the site have since removed the most offending ones. One of them that Stelter reprints says: “Somebody tell Frances I have 5000 roundas ready and I’ll give My life to take Our freedom back.” (The spelling and capitalizing have not been changed.)

According to The Nation, where Fox Piven’s December 22nd article “Mobilizing the Jobless” apparently set off this controversy, there were scores of postings calling for Piven’s murder, some “even volunteering to do the job with their own hands.” If true, the postings they present are indeed ugly and vicious, and Glenn Beck should command his staff for to remove them all, and to carefully monitor such comments in the future and delete them before they appear. Those responsible for allowing them to be posted should, in my opinion, be fired.

The Nation defends Fox Piven, maintaining that she only supports “voter registration drives, grassroots organization, and when necessary, street protest” and “recognizing the leverage that oppressed groups have — and working with them to use it,” which is “her special genius.” But the good professor has gone way beyond this. I had discussed Fox Piven’s article in my PJM blog post pointing out her call for unemployed Americans, and those otherwise hurt by the recession, to “become more disruptive”and emulate “the strikes and riots that have spread across Greece in response to the austerity measures forced on the Greek government by the European Union, or like the student protests that recently spread with lightning speed across England in response to the prospect of greatly increased school fees.”

Although Stelter’s NYT’s article purports to be even handed, Stelter puts the onus not on Fox Piven for calling for violence which she denies, but on Beck for pointing out her statements on his Fox News program. And Beck has as far as I have seen not only consistently argued for non-violence in all protest, but has been a strong advocate of First Amendment freedoms and has quoted Piven’s own words accurately and without distortion.

To add evidence of Beck’s culpability, Stelter cites a demand made by a group called the Center for Constitutional Rights to stop Beck’s “false accusations” against her. While they respect the right of free speech, a letter they wrote to Fox head Roger Ailes says, “Mr. Beck is putting Professor Piven in actual physical danger of a violent response.”

The implication of such a statement is that the only way to prevent such vicious attacks by crazed rightists is to censor Beck. Fox News correctly noted that “Beck had quoted her accurately and had never threatened her.”

One must also note the identification of the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) as a “liberal nonprofit group,” which comes after Stelter identifies Fox Piven as “a liberal academic.” Fox Piven is an academic, but she is part of the radical far Left, and she is not a liberal. And anyone who knows anything about the CCR is laughing heartily. You can read a more accurate account of it here. Again, the NYT seeks to provide legitimacy for the criticism by such an identification. The organization was founded in 1966 by four Communist affiliated lawyers, and throughout its years has been consistently identified with defending not only dissenters, but Castro supporters, terrorists, and avowed enemies of our democratic system. They backed the German Baader-Meinhof Gang and the Black Liberation Army in the 60s, as well as other clients whose politics they approve of, the only criteria they used for choosing whom to support with legal aid. The following statement drawn from the works of Peter Collier and David Horowitz identify its current goals:

Since 9/11, CCR has focused its efforts heavily on reining in the U.S. government’s newly implemented anti-terrorism measures, which the Center depicts as having “seriously undermined civil liberties, the checks and balances that are essential to the structure of our democratic government, and indeed, democracy itself.” “Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of the government’s actions,” says CCR, “has been its attack on the Bill of Rights, the very cornerstone of our American democracy.”

In 2010, CCR and the American Civil Liberties Union jointly filed a lawsuit seeking to end a U.S. government program authorizing the killing of accused terrorists like the Muslim cleric (of Yemeni descent) Anwar al-Awlaki, a dual citizen of the United States and Yemen. (The lawsuit was filed on behalf of Awlaki’s father.) An al Qaeda “regional commander,” the younger Awlaki is known to have called for Muslims worldwide to wage jihad against America and the West. His sermons were attended by three of the 9/11 hijackers (two of whom he met with privately) and Fort Hood shooter Nidal Malik Hasan (with whom he communicated regularly, and whose deadly 2009 shooting rampage he praised). Moreover, “Christmas Day bomber” Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab identified al-Awlaki was one of his al Qaeda trainers and spiritual advisers. In July 2010, Awlaki published an article in al Qaeda’s English-language magazine, Inspire, calling for Muslims to assassinate several people, including a young female cartoonist in Seattle and the novelist Salman Rushdie.

Their attitude can rightfully be characterized as support of civil liberties for terrorists and the enemies of the United States, and taking away the right of those who are critical of figures on the Left, like Frances Fox Piven, to be heard publicly. In their eyes she should be allowed to present her views freely — as she does regularly in the pages of The Nation — but those who think she is wrong must end their criticism.

Beck asked: Could one read Piven’s column as an incitement to violence? It is a fair question, and one can answer it on their own, by reading her words and making their own conclusion. Piven says that Beck is denouncing “movements of ordinary people,” and implying that “the massing of people is itself violent.” Hence he is trying only to frighten his audience.

I have read Piven’s column, and you know what my conclusion about what she believes is. I’m waiting for the CCR to demand that PJM now forbid me from writing about Frances Fox Piven.

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160 Comments, 46 Threads

1.
Lawrence

Frankly, Dr. Radosh, your columns generally are not as extreme as the words and misinformation presented by Mr. Beck. No one really cares about Ron Radosh, a former member of the Communist Party and retired pensioner of the City College of New York and ex-faculty colleague of Dr. Francis Fox Pivin.

Dr. Piven has noted that Dr, Radosh is among a few former colleagues which have switched political sides because the pay is better on the Right. So be it. No love lost.

Dr. Radosh, of all people, should know that Dr. Piven is a democratic Leftist, a social democrat or democratic socialist, not a totalitarian, a Communist or Stalinist. Dr. Piven does not advocate violent revolutionary change. In fact, she has successfully advanced the concept of an expanded voter registration program, know as The National Voter Registration Act of 1993 (NVRA), also known as The Motor Voter Act,signed into effect by President Bill Clinton on May 20, 1993. The legislation required state governments to allow for registration when a qualifying voter applied for or renewed their driver’s license or applied for social services. Also, NVRA allowed for more accessible voter registration through mail-in and individual voter registration drives. This is not the activity of a Communist, totalitarian or Stalinist.

The success of NVRA infuriates the Right-wing. The extension of democracy through NVRA undercuts the voter suppression activities of the Republican Party and its allies in the extremist Radical Right-wing.

Dr. Piven should demand equal time from Fox to refute the calumnies which Mr. Beck regularly propagates against her. The violent comments on Mr. Beck’s website against Dr. Piven need to be monitored and/or removed. Threats of physical violence should be turned over to the police.

If the “right-wing”, which I assume extends its aegis across all sorts of causes you find offensive, hates the NVRA so much, why is it that so many conservatives advocate that people be forced to present photo ID (which for most people is their driver’s license) at polling places nationally to verify their identity and the “left-wing” (by which I mean liberals in general, but include Democrats in office both past and present, and the usual fellow travelers) decry such an effort as classist or racist or both?

As to Dr. Piven demanding equal time, she had her time to present her viewpoints when publishing her original article in the Nation, and then Glenn Beck went so far as to give her more exposure by quoting her! How much time should she get to tell us she didn’t mean what she said as she said it?

And while I agree that any death threats should be investigated, I’d bet the volume and venom directed at Glenn Beck daily is magnitudes greater than anything Dr. Piven has received over this entire incident.

Exactly. Beck has to have body guards, he gets so many threats. People like Lawrence love to claim they stand on high principles, but those principles are merely tactics employed to disarm their political adversaries, Alinsky-style. His “principles” only apply to his political fellow travelers. Like “anarchist” who protest that police have not meticulously followed every iota of the law, these peoples’ interest in principles consists entirely of their use to undermine our nation.

Lawrence and his ilk are all about the meta-narrative. He cannot and will not engage in substantive debate and therefore resorts to the usual tactics of (1) ad hominem attack, in this case childishly attempting to discredit Mr. Radosh on the basis of unfounded accusations of mercenary motives, (2) repeating unfounded accusations against Republicans that attempt to continue the tired leftist stereotype of the Right as oppressors of the noble proletariat (what “voter suppression activities? you mean insisting that only those actually legally qualified to vote be allowed to vote, Lawrence?) and (3) pretending that the poor, suppressed Left doesn’t have the most and the loudest megaphones on the political stage.

People like Lawrence just hate it when their subversive strategies of extensive voter fraud masquerading as noble civil rights efforts, or the college dorm revolutionary strategies that have permeated the leadership of the Democratic Party, are brought to the attention of the American public. The whole strategy of the American socialist movement has been stealth, infiltration of all American institutions and control of the narrative. People like Beck and Radosh are blowing their cover, and the voters are on to them now. They are left to squawk and posture.

Anyone who wishes to understand the historical origins of political violence in this country, or for the world for that matter, should read Jonah Goldberg’s book Liberal Fascism. The left has successfully smeared the right as the evil protagonist in the history of political struggle for over a century now, and now that the former have been exposed, like the Bram Stoker’s Dracula, they can’t stand the light of day.

Frankly, Lawrence, your argument’s not too convincing either, though it admirably reinforces a certain party line.

Your slander, stating that Doctor Radosh’s abandonment of the left merely required a payoff, indicates the caliber of thinking employed to write the comment.

NVRA allowed for more accessible voter registration through mail-in and individual voter registration drives. This is not the activity of a Communist, totalitarian or Stalinist.

Why not? The loosened requirements of NVRA, and the fierce hostility of its promoters to photo-ID of registrants and voters, show that one of its intended effects was assistance in massive vote fraud. Communists, totalitarians and Stalinists would collectively rejoice at the ‘winning’ of an election which, once won, would ensure that its ‘winners’ would remain in power with no need ever to stand for election again. One man, one ‘vote’, one time.

Yes, many of these voter drives are more about fraud than actually helping people who are having their rights violated at the voting booth.

If people were being denied their voting rights you wouldn’t expect voter drives to solve that. One would expect lawsuits, human shields at the voting booths between voters and thugs, etc. You know like in the Black Panther voter intimidation case.

The only valid argument I can think of for the actual means they use for these leftist voter drives is that the people they sign up are either too lazy, to stupid, or too uncaring to actually register. If the issue were violence at the polling booth then the actions being taken are ineffectual. Not a very strong argument.

The real purpose of organizations like Acorn appear to be voter fraud.

“…your columns generally are not as extreme as the words and misinformation presented by Mr. Beck.”
Really? If Beck is extreme it’s only because what he exposes in people like you is extreme. Does the truth seem like your enemy? It appears that way to me. I can read and listen, and you sir, are full of the same tired old BS.

I’d bet dollars (in lieu of real money) to doughnuts most of the more threatening comments on Beck’s site came from leftists as part of an orchestrated effort. Journolist is closed (maybe) but the mendacious, whiny, coordinated leftwing media attack is not.

If she can’t stand the heat, Ms. Piven should get out of the kitchen, as they say.

“I’d bet dollars (in lieu of real money) to doughnuts most of the more threatening comments on Beck’s site came from leftists as part of an orchestrated effort.”

Don’t be delusional – why is it so hard to simply condemn a bad act? – why do people have to make up conspiracy theories when the simple explanation is much more likely? Every political blog, including this one, has it share of threatening comments, and its not because there is a vast and Olympian organisation targeting that website, but simply because a percentage of people get easily worked up and post something that they later regret (not to mention people who actually have a screw lose).

If she is so against violent change then why the recommendation to riot? Is Rachel Maddow your mentor that you practice this type of disingenuousness where you attribute the opposite of what the women actually said; disinformation pal.

I guess riots are okay if they’re not aimed in Piven’s general direction.

Now let’s hear from the liberal shrunken dictionary suddenly expanded to make the word “riot” one that is devoid of violence in the sense Piven used it. That decontextualized nonsense is great at the Daily Kos – in fact it’s their meat and potatoes. You can read a 2,000 word essay about how much they hate Palin without a single word about concrete policy.

Well, guess what – Piven gave over some concrete policy in the form of violent agitation that is worse than “surveyors marks” on a political “hit” map. Like the masked morons who attack Fox News vans at the Republican National Convention need Piven.

Non-morons may note subsequent charges for molotov cocktails with attendant jail sentences. Read the Kos or listen to Lawrence and these are non-events. Being a credentialed photographer at the 2008 Convention in St. Paul, I know.

One-sided decontextualism that ignores molotov cocktails while trumpeting a oft-repeated on both sides political map an insane murderer never cared about since his gripe with Gifford goes back a few years is typical Kos and MSNBC and liberal delusion to the hilt. They should rename the Kos the “Kos Kids” or “JournOleast” or something that would be in keeping with the fact that they and their ilk are simply phenomenally stupid. Half of what liberals write are just buzz-words and stereotypes a software program could do.

Registering to vote, for qualified citizens, is not difficult or any big deal in any state in America.

Ms. Piven and friends (like ACORN) are really interested in getting illegals, prisoners, dead people, dead pets, goldfish et al. and etc. on the voter rolls in order that their insane version of the human condition might prevail.

Lawrence, mass murdering goons such as yourself always expect to be insulated from the violence you incite. Post revolution, you and your vile kind expect to be the ones choosing the millions of victims sent off for reprocessing and extermination.

Which makes you as stupid as you are evil. The human spirit is much stronger than your pathologies and will always prevail. Sure, your totalitarian wet dreams slaughtered two hundred million in the twentieth century, and we all know you’re not yet finished.

Yet you will not win. You cannot kill humanity, only individual humans. And while, to you and your ilk, a million dead is only a statistic, the rest of us know who you are and what you do. We recognize your evil orgasmic glee for destruction for what it is.

Oh it isn’t that Lawrence is a mass murderer himself, it’s that he champions and revels in the ideology that has murdered more people, by orders of magnitude, than any other ideology in the history of mankind.

But look, that doesn’t mean that Lawrence wouldn’t murder gladly if he thought he could get away with it. A slimy willingness to slander a man like Mr Radosh, who clearly is a peaceable man of the center, is plenty of evidence that Lawrence has no moral boundaries.

No moral boundaries quickly evoles to violence, as has been proven thousands of times in practice, in any historical era, but particularly by marxists.

But Joseph, why hold back yourself? You can’t wait to get your hands on some uppity conservatives. We all know it’s true. How dare uneducated racist rubes like people on PJM challenge a cultured and principled revolutionary like yourself. It must be intolerable to read what i’m writing for somebody you hold beneath contempt. Are you a cool head about it (Lenin), or do you get a sexual charge from such thoughts (Stalin, Mao, Hitler). Come on Joseph, you can tell us. It’ll stay here among friends and the occasional cow patty like yourself that slips in for some illicit pleasure.

Provide evidence of leftist threats of violence which have been turned over to the police, preferably by you personally.

And just out of curiousity, does it pleasure you to be held in contempt by the people you seek to eradicate, or do you spout lies and cultured obscenities just for the lust for power you expect to wield over people’s lives should you be as successful as the marxist heroes you share with the flatulent Piven sow?

oh, one more thing boyo, I commend to your attention the ALF, ELF, Greenpeace, the show “Whale Wars,” Earth First, the list goes on and on. Please tell me you’re not going to call THOSE groups “right-wing?”

Except, in the case of leftist vioolence, we don’t need to rely on just threats. There have been num erous incidents of leftist actual violence in the past couple years. SEIU thugs beating pon peacefuil Tea Party supporters, for example. People shot in California. Maybe these incidents have not been thoroughly covered in Mother Jones or the Utne Reader?

*snort*(and yes that was derision) There IS no such thing as “Democratic Socialism) Socialism by it’s nature is a totalitarian ideology. Socialism requires someone to decide who gets what, and what gets taken from whom.

Dress it up however you will, it remains tyranny, and is responsible for millions of deaths.

Oh, and proreason, a man spouting communist rhetoric once personally threatened me with death because he took exception to a humorous column I wrote about dove hunting. I was accused of everything from gay-bashing to bestiality and told if he ever returned to Kansas he would personally subject me to the same things I had the innocent animals I delighted in destroying.

Now, since this particular wingnut was in Seattle and I was in Great Bend Kansas, I didn’t worry about reporting him to the police. I did suggest to him he needed some help, like most leftists.

Once you mentioned communist rhetoric, it wasn’t necessary to add the Dove Hunting part. You might as well have been writing a column on cookie baking. If you resist, you are marked for re-education. The descendents of 50 million dead Russians can testify.

Has there ever been a communist who didn’t want to kill or imprison everybody who disagrees? That’s how you know that “lawrence”, “josef”, barack and his followers just haven’t reached that happy place yet where they can throw off the chains and really get the revolution hopping. It’s the most serious form of mental illness yet discovered (or perhaps marxism is just irresistable to psychopaths), and if it isn’t stopped early, it always evolves into mass murder. Our little local marxists on PJM should be in jail rather than collecting $5 a post from Moveon.org.

You did not address Radosh’s article; instead, you changed the topic. The quotation that Radosh produced from Piven is a clear statement advocating violence here in the US. Address it. Until you address that quotation, you have said nothing in defense of Piven.

“Also, NVRA allowed for more accessible voter registration through mail-in and individual voter registration drives. This is not the activity of a Communist, totalitarian or Stalinist.”

It most certainly is.
The Marxists have made no secret that their aim is to destroy America from within since they couldn’t overcome it from without.

To this end, the Commie Rats seek to subvert our democratic process.
“Motor Voter” supplies the pinko rabble-rousers with a pre-assembled pool of registered voters that includes the ignorant, the disinterested, and the disinclined to participate if they had to make any special effort to participate in the process.

This is a fertile soil for Marxist propaganda…”potting mix” you might say…tailor made for implantation with the Marxist agenda for the “Driver-Dullards” to go bleat, howl and stamp their hooves for, blissfully unaware of what it is that they are really assenting to.

“The extension of democracy through NVRA undercuts the voter suppression activities of the Republican Party and its allies in the extremist Radical Right-wing. ”

Then judging by last November’s turnout, I’d observe that the Undocumented President and the DemocRat Congressional Soviet are simply hammers and chisels in the “Radical Right Wing Voter Suppression” toolbox…because they suppressed the bejesus out of DemocRat voters, while Conservative voters were trampling each other to get to the polling places.

I agree, except that the communist movement, and especially the American socialist movement HAVE tried to make it a secret that they hope to destroy America from within. That is why they are so apoplectic about Ron Radosh, a former member and, to them, turncoat, and Glenn Beck, who with his chalkboard has been so effectively educating Americans about who these people are, what they want and how they have been going about realizing their goals. Beck, Radosh and others are wrecking the stealth campaign and taking back the narrative, and they must be silenced or delegitimized. By any means necessary.

“The extension of democracy through NVRA undercuts the voter suppression activities of the Republican Party and its allies in the extremist Radical Right-wing.”

Since Lawrence doesn’t seem to realize that Leftspeak is not quite the same as English a few translations will be required here. >_>

“The extension of democracy through NVRA” = Leftspeak for “Packing the voting lists with illegal immigrants and making certain voting practices of the Chicago Daley Machine easier to carry out.”

“the voter suppression activities of the Republican Party” = Leftspeak for “the evil conservative practice of trying to keep votes from the graveyard and 2nd and 3rd votes cast by the same leftist from being counted”

Once these translations have been made I am sure the value of Dr. Piven’s activities, on the occasions that she is doing something with her life other than wishing out loud for riots in which people die, will definitely have their proper appreciation! ^_~

Can you to cite one example of “misinformation” from Glen Beck? He exposes these far left goons by quoting their words spoken and written. I realize being held accountable for words and actions is a radical notion to far left liberals but just give me one example.

Communism has resulted in the deaths of 100+million or more – that’s a fact. I long for the day when ’60′s radicals cease to have any viable influence on this country. Pathetic weak generation that never grew up – Bill Ayers is the poster child. Obama’s political career was launched at this schmuck’s house.

Defend this quote

Q “Well, what is going to happen to those people that we can’t re‘educate, that are die-hard capitalists?” And the reply was that they’d have to be eliminated and when I pursued this further, they estimated that they’d have to eliminate 25 million people in these reeducation centers. And when I say eliminate, I mean kill 25 million people. I want you to imagine sitting in a room with 25 people, most of whom have graduate degrees from Columbia and other well-known educational centers and hear them figuring out the logistics for the elimination of 25 million people”
–Bill Ayers, in Prairie Fire

Dr. Piven should demand equal time? Ha, ha! Well, OK! Oh, let’s do exactly that and add up those tit for tats…..Beginning with equal time on all U.S. college campuses for Conservative leaning professors. Since institutions of higher learning are bloated with zealous Leftist professors, let’s begin there. Then, of course, we have Network News and two cable networks, the New York times, New York Post, and every other major metro publication….also bloated with radically Leftist journalists. Shall we continue? I didn’t think so. I’m no Beck person but pleeze don’t suggest equal time when nearly our entire public information system is overloaded with the radical Left. If Piven doesn’t like the heat she can just shut the #^@@ up!

Thanks for this article. I think threats to people are much more common than most realize. Some years ago, I led a team which transformed a paper-based quality control system in an aerospace company. The system only required that if materials brought into the shop which did not meet specifications be approved electronically by a supervisor of quality control. Little did I know how corrupt the workers were, when I received death threats at home along with threats to put explosives in my auto, parked on the company lot, because the system exposed the corrupt practices which had resulted in defective airplanes. I worried every time I started the engine for months. There will always be intolerant people, violent people and insane people. Occasionally having to be frightened is the price anyone who does anything that changes the status-quo or who speaks his/her mind in a free society.

As for Glenn Beck, he is the only investigative reporter to expose the radicals in government and academia; he always upholds Ghandi’s principles of peace. There is value in someone brave enough to show the influences in our media, our children’s education and our politicians; that’s the reason for his high level of viewership. Imagine how many death threats he must get; he never has said, possibly because he knows it’s a price paid for exposing the truth.

Before FOX and the internet came along, the leftist media had total control of the news, and now there is a change to the status quo. It’s not surprising that there is a war on free speech via the internet and FOX. Also, why would anyone assume that comments made on Beck’s website are Beck fans and NOT moles trying to discredit him?

““Somebody tell Frances I have 5000 roundas ready and I’ll give My life to take Our freedom back.”
I’m sorry but since Piven is fermenting violent behavior I’m not sure this quote is aimed at her but at the radicals she is calling into action.

Maybe the poster just wanted those he felt were threatening HIM to be aware that he at least was prepared should Piven’s suggested;

“strikes and riots that have spread across Greece in response to the austerity measures forced on the Greek government by the European Union, or like the student protests that recently spread with lightning speed across England in response to the prospect of greatly increased school fees.”

Somebody tell Frances I have 5000 roundas ready and I’ll give My life to take Our freedom back.

It seems to me that this could be taken two very different ways:

1. The author of this line could be asserting that he has five thousand rounds of ammunition that he is ready to expend in killing Frances Fox Piven.

2. The author of this line could be asserting that he has five thousand rounds that he is wlling to expend in helping Piven achieve her goals. In other words, he is encouraging her to launch the Revolution because he wants to help overthrow the government.

Since I have no mind-reading capabilities, I simply can’t say which was the intended message.

If academia had made more effort to train young people how to communicate clearly these past few decades, we wouldn’t now have to guess what people are trying to say.

I assume, Ron, that you will give Lawrence’s comments the attention they merit, namely none. Given the nature of today’s academia I’d rather doubt that your decision to follow your research where it took you was based on monetary benefits. Lawrence seems to think that the NVRA is Dr. Piven’s main thrust or what she is fairly open about supporting.

But yes, Beck does go off half-cocked from time to time, but here he simply quoted Piven who, after all, has said a lot over the years. The interesting thing is that she seems to think that if she and her ilk break the system that what results will be the leftist regime she craves. That’s not necessarily the case.

“And Beck has as far as I have seen not only consistently argued for non-violence in all protest, but has been a strong advocate of First Amendment freedoms and has quoted Piven’s own words accurately and without distortion.”

Nonsense. He’s a scaremonger and his diatribes are similar to Marx’s in identifying a dangerous group, one that is stealing from us or that wants to essentially enslave us. You can go on youtube and listen to his crazy rants on “death panels” to see that he has people really frightened. One woman called up and asked if she was going to be killed by a death panel, and was it right for her to be concerned. He answered in the affirmative but that she will not have to worry because there many who are fighting against it.

Another video he implies that leftists are going to kill him from Acorn.

He’s nuts or pretends to be.

With regards to the “Shoot them in the head video”.

If Nancy Pelosi is going to have to shoot other democrats in the head what does that mean for republicans? Obviously these communists in the Democrat party will need to be shot by Republicans too. It’s an obvious deduction. If a mad dog needs to be killed by it’s owners (the Democrats) because it is so vicious then obviously the same is true for non-owners (the Republicans). In fact, Beck is arguing that the true owner of the dog doesn’t recognize its dangerousness. Which obviously leaves it to the Beck followers to shoot them in the head.

Not only isn’t Nancy Pelosi going to have to shoot people like Van Jones in the head, but the rest of us won’t need to either. Even if you are fully aware of all the “facts” that Glenn Beck is feeding you.

Beck is a deceptive weasel pretending to be non-violent and meantime, all the while, stirring up violence, and hatred for others.

Yeah, that stuff about “death panels” is just deranged, right? There won’t be death panels. There will only be government panels making decisiosn on what life-safing treatments can and cannot be used, and who can get them and who can’t. Oooh, those crazy wingnuts!

If Glenn Beck is a Republican than saying that Nancy Pelosi is going to have to shoot Van Jones in the head one day is not exactly non-violent. That after ranting about how Jones is a communist on the model of Stalin, and totally ignoring the range of thought in communism from the peaceful Hutterites and Amish, to the Stalins, Maos, and Pol Pots.

Glenn Beck doesn’t get to shamelessly compare himself to Martin Luther King, when in fact he is stirring up fear, and hatred. Suppose that a left winger compared Beck to Hitler based on both of them hating communists, and ranting about it. Suppose they went further and made the claim that one day Beck would be such at danger that he would be lining up top Republican leaders and shooting them in the head. Then suppose that they said one day republican speaker of the house John Boehner was going to have to shoot Glenn Beck in the head.

Is that how a pacifist proceeds or a hyperbolic polemicist who is unconcerned about the results of the irrational fears he stirs up.

Both sides are guilty of stirring up anger, fear, violence. I just think that calling for actual European style riots is worse.

I found my other comment right next to this one but waiting moderation. Perhaps because it has URL links to videos, as my other got posted right away. I’m not sure if Beck counts as a Republican but here’s the comment without links so you can see it in a timely fashion:

“And Beck has as far as I have seen not only consistently argued for non-violence in all protest, but has been a strong advocate of First Amendment freedoms and has quoted Piven’s own words accurately and without distortion.”

Nonsense, He’s a scaremonger and his diatribes are similar to Marx’s in identifying a dangerous group, one that is stealing from us or that wants to essentially enslave us. You can go on youtube and listen to his crazy rants on “death panels” to see that he has people really frightened. One woman called up and asked if she was going to be killed by a death panel, and was it right for her to be concerned. He answered in the affirmative but that she will not have to worry because there many who are fighting against it.

Another video he implies that leftists are going to kill him from Acorn.

He’s nuts or pretends to be.

With regards to the “Shoot them in the head video”.

If Nancy Pelosi is going to have to shoot other democrats in the head what does that mean for republicans? Obviously these communists in the Democrat party will need to be shot by Republicans too. It’s an obvious deduction. If a mad dog needs to be killed by it’s owners (the Democrats) because it is so vicious then obviously the same is true for non-owners (the Republicans). In fact, Beck is arguing that the true owner of the dog doesn’t recognize its dangerousness. Which obviously leaves it to the Beck followers to shoot them in the head.

Not only isn’t Nancy Pelosi going to have to shoot people like Van Jones in the head, but the rest of us won’t need to either. Even if you are fully aware of all the “facts” that Glenn Beck is feeding you.

Beck is a deceptive weasel pretending to be non-violent and meantime, all the while, stirring up violence, and hatred for others.

Piven’s too pure and intelligent to get her hands dirty. Whoever bleeds at the barricades, it won’t be her. No doubt she even expects to be one of those sending counterrevolutionaries off for “processing.” She has fallen victim to the classic error of revolutionary intellectuals: they actually believe that, after violent revolution, the “cream” rises to the top and becomes the nomenklatura. In reality, of course, the last one standing is the most ruthless, and the Pivens of the revolution fall before them like wheat under the scythe.

It is always lost on the Pivens of the world that Stalin was not the smartest guy in Russian, any more than Mussolini was the smartest guy in Italy, nor Hitler Germany, nor Pol Pot Cambodia, nor Kim Il-Sung North Korea, nor Mao China, nor Castro Cuba. They were simply the most brutal, the ones most willing to smash heads to achieve power.

I am confused. Why would the pro-communist Left be upset that the Rosenbergs were committed Communists working for the advancement and survival of Soviet Russia, which would only be possible if Stalin had the Bomb? Seems like that is a particular fact they should be proud of. No?

The left-wing media tried to blame the Arizona shooting on the Tea Party and Conservatives and failed except with their Left-Wing True Believers. Now they are attempting to use this tragedy to force Political Correctness on America. Political Correctness is evil and unconstitutional. It is a lie that must be accepted by faith!

The Left will shamelessly use any event or tragedy to tear this country down.

Lawrence (@ #1), all the Lawrence clones, the NYTimes, will attempt to use and apply…anything at all…in service to the agenda, misrepresentation,Tucson, demanding equal time for Frances to defend herself against Glenn Beck’s “calumnies”* or anything else under the sun.

It’s a big, fat game they play. They sense some momentum since there are so many of the carefully cultivated brain dead in America these days who think they make sense.

(*since the Left cannot compete on its own merits in the marketplace of ideas it has to try to control speech in demanding re-institution of an (un) fairness doctrine, FCC control over the internet, etc.)

THIS generation of Liberals are a bunch of pussies. MY generation of Liberals, at least, had the GUTS to “actually get out of their dorm rooms and do something”. Remember Kent State? Remember Chicago in ’68? Remember Madison, Wisconsin? You Liberals in this generation are the biggest waste of time I have ever seen. You type and type and type, then sit back at the computer and “smile” that you have “written a masterpiece”. “That’ll show those Bush/Palin lovin’ rethuglicans”. Then what? Down the street for a Big Mac and Fries.

Just a heads up folks. Don’t be suckered. The lefties are setting us up for a fall. Here’s the con – conservatives have to be perfect, pure and never fail. Lefties, like Piven, never get called, and conservatives never get a break. Same technique used in the Tuscon shooting. Do not fall for this trap. And Beck got this one dead to rights (oops! did I make a hate speech???). The NYT is just carrying water for their girl.

This looks like a signature leftard psychological operation. We are better than they are, and have a better program even IF one of our guys screws up occasionally (and in this particular case, Beck does NOTHING more than quote the commie faithfully). I really hated Bush’s prescription drug bill (to name one particularly awful example). That said, he was a better Pres on his worst day, than O has been on his best to date. And so on folks. Use your noodles on this – we’re not perfect, just 10 times better.

And yes folks, as noted above, the big truth is that Motor Voter WAS designed to facilitate voter fraud, and has been used successfully to do so ever since. Hey Boehner, there’s another “law” for the House Repubs to repeal.

I am glad that you bring up the prescription drug bill because it demonstrates a phenomenon of criticism of Obama and liberals in general which I hear happening here more and more. One can admit that they disliked the prescription drug bill and other big government moves from GWB, but he is still a good guy, or maybe just a mediocre guy, but when Obama pushes and gets the healthcare bill passed, the rhetoric gets 10 times hotter and evocations of Stalin and the system which has killed more people than any other in history blah, blah, blah, pours forth.
Too many people here buy the political equation of liberal=socialist=Communist=Stalin and the deaths of millions, not to mention the death of the Republic. There is something about Obama, that calls forth this extra level of facile and over-the-top bombast. Whatever could it be? You could hear it in Rush BEFORE Obama ever did anything.
The effect is that so many arguments here become caricatures of a POLITICAL discussion. The other side is not the loyal opposition, they are proponents of the Gulag. Let’s just be clear that it is Piven making the statements, for which she can rightfully be taken to task if she is advocating riots, as opposed to demonstrations, although we know from the sixties that there is often a damned fine line between the two.
Death threats to Piven…or Palin are crazy, but then if folks are worried about the Gulag, or a whole different crazy anger set toward Palin, why should we be surprised?

Rush and others tried to warn the populace about Obama before the election in 2008, because they had researched his background. The MSM covered all of that stuff up throughout the campaign. Rush wanted Obama to fail in implementing what Rush knew Obama would try to do. Unfortunately for us, Obama, with help from Reid and Pelosi, has been able to hurt the country, politically and economically. $100 per barrel oil and $4.00 gas soon, if we don’t start accessing our own oil resources again.

The reason we “buy” that equation is because it is true. Unless, of course, you can show me where it’s not without some semantical gymnastics. We complained about the drug bill, and that they shouldn’t pass it, which is just one of the things that has caused the rise of Palin and the Tea Party. We don’t care which side brings up the socialist policies, we’re tired of them all.

What is it about Obama that brings “extra” heated rhetoric? I don’t know, what was it about George Bush that brought out assassination movies, threats, effigy burnings regularly, trashing, violent rhetoric from newscasters nightly? It ain’t that bad, you guys are just screaming that it is, mimicking our screams years ago, except we were actually, you know, telling the truth, you guys are just exaggerating for effect.

And what ‘it’ is, is, that Obama and company have canceled the constitution, completely nullified contract law, strong-armed the nation in what can only be described as rampant voter fraud take-over in a rigged election (notice how we were given the two choices of Soros-backed Obama or Soros-backed McCain? And you couldn’t fit the thinnest of cigarette papers between their positions, could you?).

A take-over by someone who has spent millions to hide birth records, college records, personal records, all in the attempt to hide his contacts and financial support from Muslims and radicals since birth. His college records will indicate that he took money as a foreign student, but we won’t get those until it’s too late.

Other than that? There’s a list, but by now, you will have denied that I even exist, or have trounced me in your mind as some crazed right wing nut job, which just means anyone to the right of you.

“Too many people here buy the political equation of liberal=socialist=Communist=Stalin and the deaths of millions, not to mention the death of the Republic.”

This meme didn’t grow up in a vacuum, y’know. The history of the Marxists’ “Popular Front” strategy, and their tactics for infiltrating and subverting organizations to further their agenda is well and truly established, and a matter of historical record, both here and abroad.

One of the recent signal moments was when MSNBC talking head Harvard-educated Lawrence O’Donnell rebuked Glenn Greenwald:

“Glenn, unlike you, I am not a progressive. I am not a liberal who is so afraid of the word that I had to change my name to progressive. Liberals amuse me. I am a socialist. I live to the extreme left, the extreme left of you mere liberals, okay?”

Liberals amuse Socialists because Socialists know that Liberals are their dupes.
In turn, Socialists amuse Communists because Communists know that Socialists are their useful idiots.

It may indeed be an oversimplification to equate Liberals with Socialists and Socialists with Communists, but it;s a pretty good and valid rule of thumb.

“The other side is not the loyal opposition, they are proponents of the Gulag.”

The Loyal Opposition were the so-called Blue Dog DemocRats, who are now an endangered species in terms of holding office.

“Let’s just be clear that it is Piven making the statements, for which she can rightfully be taken to task if she is advocating riots, as opposed to demonstrations, although we know from the sixties that there is often a damned fine line between the two.”

Given our comrades on the Left’s facility with bending the language, demonstrations ARE riots…even you admit that the distinction is one without a meaningful difference. Why is the old Marxist sow still employed in a state university and written up sympathetically in the NYT after what she has advocated?
Had Limbaugh said anything remotely similar, the press would have had a double-Hindu sh!t-fit over it and calls would have been made to boycott his advertisers.

The Red Pig Piven will have to suffer for her outrageous incitement of violence by attending a few cocktail parties, testimonial dinners and being feted by the crowd of Liberal/Socialist/Communist/Stalinists that she has spent decades running with.

Piven denies this. But she also says repeatedly that the demonstrations she calls for need to be “more disruptive.” What does that mean? And she refers to the Greek riots as a template. What does that mean? It can’t mean simple demonstrations, with parade permits and the whole thing. No, it means barging into meetings and lectures and shouting down what is going on there. It means “civil disobedience.” It means at the very least, all manner of disruptive activity, not merely speech. Maybe she doesn’t condone physical assault of people. Maybe she even means no physical assault of property. But in invoking the Greek riots as her template, where both occurred in plenty, I think we are entitled to doubt that. At the very least we are entitled to know which parts of the Greek riots she does condone (and she said “riots,” not “demonstrations”) and precisely how she has been so grieviously misunderstood.

You are wrong. Neither Rush nor anyone else had even heard of Obama “BEFORE Obama ever did anything.” Obama has been affiliated with the Left and, according to his autobiography, with Marxists since way before he ran for any political office. As his education progressed, he became more anti-American and anti-Constitution, and he was proud to display it. You just didn’t realize it because the MSM wanted this half-black man, who they could call “black,” to be elected president, so they didn’t mention his past.

Well, not quite true; they did mention that he had been a “Community Organizer,” which many naive voters viewed as a noble, community-life-enriching endeavor rather than organizing the unproductive to force the productive to pay “protection” money, much like the Mob used to do.

Notice that even now Obama demonizes successful businesses, doctors, insurance companies, and–most of all–Republicans and conservatives (not necessarily the same thing), and he encourages students to engage in “community service” rather than working with the evil profit-making corporations. Is that really a recipe for a strong America? Well, Obama seems to think so; he has not progressed from his Marxist-admiring college days.

He has internalized Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals and makes use of them daily, as do all effective Leftists.

This fool actually equates the prescription drug relief legislation with Obamacare. Next he’ll be equating Grenada to the Cold War.

Sadly, I was hopeful he had overcome his Tucson obesssion, but here he can’t resist slipping in a disconnected Palin / Rush slur. He can’t separate Palin from Tucson from Rush from breathing. The hatred is deep in the cortex for these guys. They can’t function without hatred.

It’s genetic. Crazed genetics.

And yes, it’s a straight-line from marxism to mass murder. Look it up.

Dwight, like most leftists, is incapable of dealing with first-principles arguments. Or with the fact that not only do ideas have consequences, but they also have a pedigree. Damned embarassing ones, as it turns out for our opponents – no, our enemies on the left.

Take a couple deep breaths and check out TT’s analysis of how all governments are balancing acts between two principles.

First principles my patooty. For you guys the first and often only principle is to find an enemy and howl loudly. Having two principles in creative tension with each other, is apparently a little too complicated for you

Say what you like, Dwight – you still refuse to address first-principles arguments that I’ve posed in other articles. Instead, you resort to dissimulation, dodging, changing the subject, answering a question with another question and ad-hominems. It’s on display for all to see: a better man would be ashamed of that; as a leftist, you have no shame, so the argument is wasted.

The fact that you persist in such behavior indicates that you aer intellectually dishonest and morally vacuous.

This superannuated Red sow pens a screed recommending that the unemployed riot.
Glenn Beck quotes her words verbatim on his air.
Right-thinking Americans express the completely understandable and rational desire to protect themselves by putting Ms. Piven “up against the wall”, (remember THAT gem?).

And Beck is to blame for the reaction to Piven’s words, while the putrid old bint goes crying to the police for her protection…the same police who would be the front-line, first day casualties of the riots that she has incited?

Have I got that right?

Nothing is more pathetically hypocritical and absurdly clueless than a tenured old Leftie still trying to “stick it to The Man”.

I wrote the original series of articles that Glenn Beck used as the basis for his programs on the Cloward-Piven strategy. Cloward and Piven spent a lifetime fomenting discord in this country for their oft-repeated goal of ushering in socialism to the United States. Both helped form Democratic Socialists of America, a true misnomer as DSA’s vicious goals and destructive tactics differ little from the Communist Party, with whom they share many alliances. Their “Are You Sleeping, Bourgeoisie?” theme song is instructive: “And when the revolution comes we’ll kill you all with knives and guns, bourgeoisie, bourgeoisie.” Oh yes, pacifistic democrats, for sure.

The National Welfare Rights Organization was created with the help of Richard Cloward, specifically for the purpose of implementing the Cloward-Piven strategy and was effective in practically bankrupting NYC but fell short elsewhere. ACORN was the second-generation of the NWRO, founded by NWRO veteran Wade Rathke. It primarily targeted our voting system and housing, and used the same threatening tactics of the NWRO to push for 100% financing and subprime mortgages. We all know how that turned out.

Motor Voter was a decades-long effort initiated and pushed by Cloward and Piven. Most people don’t realize that the purpose of the “Motor Voter” law was to use their strategy to exploit weaknesses in our voting system. ACORN has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt how effective this tactic can be, when so many fraudulent registrations are filed that the voting system’s very integrity is called into question.

No they don’t say this exactly in their writings. They dress it up as “social justice” or use other Marxist codewords, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Motor Voter, which Cloward and Piven considered their crowning achievement, has opened the entire nation to widespread vote fraud and has created massive problems for an overworked, understaffed elections bureaucracy – “overwhelming” the system, in Cloward Piven parlance.

In tight races, that works in the left’s favor, as it did in Minnesota where ACORN-connected Secretary of State Mark Ritchie, a beneficiary of George Soros’ Secretary of State Project, helped Al Franken steal the election. It also helps explain the left’s obsession with open borders: bury states in new demands for welfare and provide yet more ways to undermine voting while garnering new democrat votes. The socialists publicly admitted the latter goal.

But back to Piven’s most recent deranged call for riots. It is not the first time. Cloward and Piven similarly advocated a repeat of Watts-style riots in the early 1980s when Reagan was president and we were still suffering the effects of Carter’s recession. Writing for the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Liberal commentator Juan Williams identified the pair and observed that the last time white leftists like them incited riots in the sixties, entire black neighborhoods, including many black businesses, were completely destroyed, and he didn’t want to see a repeat just as twenty years later, those neighborhoods were finally on the mend. He suggested instead that liberals should instigate a “white-ethnic riot… If there are going to be riots again, give black people and black neighborhoods a break…”

I can sympathize.

Now I am sure Frances, who is an unreconstructed Marxist, not the “social democrat” mentioned by someone above (just listen to one of her radio interviews where she carries on about the glories of Marxism), wouldn’t mind a “white-ethnic riot,” as long as it wasn’t in her neighborhood. After all, aren’t her beloved SEIU thugs just an organized version of same? But I suspect her fellow leftists might prefer not to mess up their own backyards either.

Finally, I am willing to bet few, if any of those “threatening emails” came from conservatives. We tend not to do that kind of thing. The lunatic left, however, does. All the time. Has anyone checked the veracity of those emails? It is easy to set up an anonymous phone call. Not so much with email. A law enforcement agency could trace it.

It is more likely that a. she is making the whole thing up and received no such emails, or b. one of her leftist friends has sent her nasty emails so she can turn around and accuse us. That is a standard leftist tactic. That is probably why she is declining to look into it further.

You leftists are despicably hypocritical, savage, selfish scumbags. Yet I wouldn’t threaten your life, though I have little doubt you would threaten mine. That is your pedigree. I would however, like to see people like Piven get the justice they deserve for the criminal acts of wanton destruction they have spent a life advocating and sometimes successfully visited upon us. What should that justice be? What the law provides, which hopefully in their cases, would find them swinging at the end of a rope.

We should always challenge the assumption that a post on a conservative web-site came from a conservative.

Drooling trolls and other Moveon types are the probable perps. Something like 80% of political violence is caused by liberal kooks. Violence is in their blood. 5 minutes on Kos is like a year in a sewer filled with alligators.

And of course, as everybody knows, all of the mega-mass murderers for the last 150 years are marxist/socialist variants (100 million+ for Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Ho, Pol Pot, Fidel, etc). Yet they tell you with a straight face that conservatives are prone to violence.

Nothing makes leftists scuttle away like the cockroaches they are than to shine a light on their own words and deeds.

Nothing baffles and enrages the Left more than to expose the pedigree of their ideas. And those ideas do matter. Many on the Left follow a destructive meme that owes its substance to Antonio Gramsci, Herbert Marcuse, Saul Alinsky and the Cloward-Piven duo. There are many others, but thesse four are the most toxic – and yes, evil – of the lot.

The other meme is that of the dehumanization of humanity itself. Look to Marx, Freud, Nietzsche, B.F. Skinner, Dr. Peter Singer and the current crop of so-called ‘bio-ethicists’ for that particular chain of thought. You can hardly ask for something more insidiously evil than that.

Converged and combined, these two srteams of thought have served those who have committed the most monstrous crimes in history – These are the killers without conscience. The book that I am presently writing suggests that the emergence of the will to power as the driving force behind those who have committed those crimes – the slaughter, enslavement, torture and impoverishment of hundreds of millions. As I see it, ideology matters little to those whose desire to control Mankind – it’s merely the horse they’re riding on the eway to dominus terra firma.

We have not seen the end of these monsters, nor will we. The desire to control others – and to harm others – without consequence appears to be ‘black code’ that’s written into our DNA. Modern ideology, that is, all of the modern totalitarian ‘isms’ – communism, socialism, and so on – provide the perfect environment for that ‘black code’ of the will to power to prosper and flourish. This is one of our great human failings, an aspect of out tragic nature that must always be recognized, fought and destroyed, if only for a little while. But for that, we’d be out among the stars by now.

I highly recommend two recent works by Chantal Delsol: Icarus Fallen – the Search for Meaning in an Uncertain World and The Unlearned Lessons of the Twentieth Century – an Essay on Late Modernity. The insights are compelling and fairly leap off the page. The points of disagreement that I have with this author’s works are honest and thoughtful ones. Those points in no way invalidate the main themes of her works.

“the emergence of the will to power as the driving force behind those who have committed those crimes – the slaughter, enslavement, torture and impoverishment of hundreds of millions. As I see it, ideology matters little to those whose desire to control Mankind – it’s merely the horse they’re riding on the eway to dominus terra firma. ”

Yes, the dirty secret of leftism is that it is like honey to bees for psychopaths. The Tucson murdered is just a tiny new example.

The allure of marxism is so strong, and the evidence is so overwhelming that the greatest mass murderers have all been marxists that you really even have to wonder about the motives of some blog posters who constantly seek to stir up trouble on conservative blogs. Obviously, their current chosen vehicles to express their political will are lies, demonization, dissembling, race-baiting and con games, but the historical evidence is clear that low-level “organizing” is often just the first step in the evolution of political psychopaths.

As loathsome as Piven’s life work has been, it does not rise (or sink) to the level of swinging from the end of a rope. But perhaps she could metaphorically swing from the end of a metaphorical rope by being exposed to the public for exactly who and what she is and enduring, in ger golden years the condemnation and contempt of Americans. The one thing these people cannot endure is exposure. We must all do our best therefore to expose them all, thoroughly and often.

The author writes:
‘I had discussed Fox Piven’s article in my PJM blog post pointing out her call for unemployed Americans, and those otherwise hurt by the recession, to “become more disruptive” and emulate “the strikes and riots that have spread across Greece in response to the austerity measures forced on the Greek government by the European Union, or like the student protests that recently spread with lightning speed across England in response to the prospect of greatly increased school fees.”’

If your quotation is accurate then she is advocating violence. I do not know if this particular advocacy of violence is illegal. What am I not understanding?

If someone from the “right” had said this, they probably would either be charged with insiting violence – or hate-speech legislation would currently be making its way through congress onto the presidents dest for him to sign.

Everyone leaves out that George Soros funds this group through his propaganda organization Open Society Institute. Don’t believe anything any group that George Soros funds. He would not know the truth if it bit him in his 80-year old butt.

CCR Funding and Partners

CCR’s net assets as of June 30, 2006 amounted to $5,029,974, seventy-seven percent of which was received from endowments, foundations and individual gifts. These donations include large donations from the Ford Foundation, and George Soros’ Open Society Institute. There are over 1,050 other foundations and individuals which have given to CCR.

We also have Frances Fox Piven opening calling for a revolution in this country. Why do all you progressives overlook that. The words come out of her 78 year old mouth.

How do we know that the threats against this Commie really came from actual members of the Right, Tea Party, or Libertarians? They could just as easily have been posted by one of her supporters in order to allow her to play the martyr, smear the right, and hopefully muzzle Beck.

This is a standard play of theirs. Remember all the fake “Racist Incidents”, wherein nooses or racist hate notes are left, conveniently timed to happen when the Left needs a lucky break to get something or other done. Remember the open plans to send fake Nazis and racists to Tea Party rallies.

We have to beware of such posts on our sites. Each and every over the top post inciting violence on our sites should be turned over to their ISP and the police. Our sites should capture IP#s and other identifying data which can be collected from each post. I bet we will mostly be catching Nutroots Trolls and Commies.

Leftists also believe that once they’ve achieved their goal of the reduction of America, the Islamic world will give them a wink and a nod and hearty handshake – and allow them to go about their business.

Nothing could be further from the truth, and no-one will be as surprised and dismayed – no one – as they will be when they discover that their supposed Islamic pals want to see them dead or reduced to dhimmitude, too.

I’ve thought about this a lot lately Ward. My view is that leftists view Muslims as a minor enemy compared to free Americans. Leftists, should they finally succeed at enslaving the country class in the US, will have full access to the military strength of the US and the west. And don’t believe for a second that they would pay a second of attention to political correctness once they control the military. PC is just another device to handcuff their real enemy, the country class.

For the moment, their alliance with radical islam is convenent because it is essentially a second front against freedom, for no cost. But if leftists win the battle their primary enemy (us), they will turn on Islam in a moment, and wipe it off the face of the earth.

Now, what would make me think so? Well, I have paid attention to the marxist / leftist regimes of the last 150 years (including Nazi Germany which also used the ruse of socialism to gain power). What I’ve noticed is that they are never dainty about enforcing their will, and they have zero regard for human life.

Neither do the leftists in the US, either. The only thing that reins them in is a well established political framework, widespread wealth that has so far prevented them from enraging enough of the country to support a coup, a military that is deeply patriotic and loyal to representatiave democracy, and 200 million arms in private hands (thank you Founders).

if the Communists seriously think that they will even have a chance to murder Muslims, they have a shock and half coming to them!!
They might need weapons to accomplish that annihilation. Muslims have no such scruples -they use their teeth, a knife, their bare hands.
And they stay in practice by killing their daughters and female relatives
(honour killings), ripping the bodies of young children via sodomy and clitoral excision, murdering Jews, Christians, Muslim apostates and their own dictator-led people. Much of their population is genetically mutated (inbreeding) and many are not very bright. They feed on the hope of blood and money of the infidel.

Does the precedent of the Communists and Islamists in Iran mean nothing to these hopeful Lefties? They have a lot to learn and it won’t be pretty.

“I think you would find that most of the espousers of violence here are not plants, just over-wraught righties.”

The calls for violence I have seen on this site reek of Leftist Troll.

If there are any on the Right who are calling for political violence, I want them arrested as well. I do not believe the end justifies the means.

My goal is to create a more free and open society. Enabling those who espouse killing people they do not agree with is a step exactly in the opposite direction of that I wish us to be moving.

Being a Libertarian from a Christian Conservative family living in a small city with a large Liberal university I have a unique chance to talk to many Leftists and Rightists. It is my observation that the Left is far more obsessed with politics, are filled with anger and rage, and have a tendency to entertain fantasies of violence towards their opponents. You almost can’t talk with them on any subject without them inserting non germane insults to Palin these days, or Bush II in the past, into the conversation, and often times these comments include violent fantasies.

When I talk to Conservatives, for the most part they prefer to talk about almost anything but politics. When they do talk about politics, it is usually rational discussions about how to get more Conservatives elected and turn the country around. I never hear them suggesting or wishing for violence against their opponents.

Once again Piven and her friends at The Nation and the NYT’s are perpetuating the BIG LIE. Piven is either lying about receiving death threats, or if she did they were from her friends on the Left who wanted to make her look like a victim rather than the Marxist she is.

Communism is akin to Christianity, in that, there are many churches with many church doctrines to represent the religion of Christianity. Likewise, there are many doctrines that have evolved to represent communism….Marxism, generic socialism, progressive socialism, democratic socialism, capitalist socialism, etc. Anarchists most current evolution is Libertarianism….finding a home now in the GOP as the communist/socialist found a home in the Democrat Party.

Worldwide there are ONLY two opposition systems to our Democratic Republic and Capitalism system….Communism and Anarchism.

I’m always appalled at how American citizens have allowed themselves to become so uninformed on such a simply issue of identifying our nations enemies from abroad and WITHIN.

Amazing how so many Americans have become accustom to submitting to the communist/socialist pedophile when they extend candy to them. As a result, virtually EVERY citizen is now directly or indirectly a recipient of a government (social) benefits, however they may be packaged and named.

Uh, could you give just ONE concrete example of how the Libertarians are the New Communists? And, don’t bother with this “they want legalization” crap. One agreement in policy don’t cut it, since those “educrat authoritarians” seem to think that any evidence of “social structure” puts a government on the right, no matter how many leftist characteristics they have. Besides, the Libertarian legalization argument is about personal freedom and lack of government intervention, not more government intervention. If it was communist, they’d be calling for the government to SUPPLY it. Now, any other communist policies you can think of?

You said they are the new anarchists. But that would apply, if at all, only to the most extreme so-called libertarians. Those who call for smaller, more decentralized government, who are far and away the bulk of those who have any influence in the GOP are not anarchists in any meaningful way, and to equate those two pphilosophies seems to me a frivolous claim.

“Worldwide there are ONLY two opposition systems to our Democratic Republic and Capitalism system….Communism and Anarchism.”

Actually, with all due respect, I would count the Sharia aspect of Islam as a 3rd. Which is why the Jihadis are being used as a stalking horse of sorts by the Commies. Their problem being, though I doubt many of them are wise enough to know it, that a successful jihadi movement would merely use them and set them aside. I see the Communist bet as being the jihadis will lose but wound us in the process while the jihadis are betting on a relatively quick sweep based on the rot from within that the Left has afflicted on the West. It will be interesting to see in the end which group succeeded in using the other. ^o^

ToweringBarbarian…You speak to elements of a theocracy which more coincide with the root of communism. We somehow, have come to ignore the basic root forms of governance and economies that structured the worlds societies. The new American Republic system was a [delicate] constitutional hybrid between the two root extremes of communism and anarchism….a [limited] government with broad personal freedoms and a privatized economy. The world remains at odds over the fundamentals of government control vs individual freedoms and ownership of economies. The anarchist would have no government controls while the communists would have total government controls.

Ah, you were talking ideology and I was thinking geopolitics. My bad. *^_^*

That said, I’d say that it would be more accurate to describe the American Republic – like the Roman Republic before it – as a compromise between the Greek concepts of monarchy/tyranny, aristocracy/oligarchy and democraty anarchy than as a “[delicate] constitutional hybrid between the two root extremes of communism and anarchism” simply because the Constitution was established long before Marx was born so that the Founders could have no reason to think there was a Communism to be compromised with. It may have the effect that you speak of in addition but, at the risk of making a semantic quibble, it was liberty vs. order rather than communism v. anarchy that ultimately drove their concerns.

I do tend to equate commun-ism to commun-e rather than some of the more convoluted root word analysis. I also tend to see socialism as a sub-category of communism rather than the reverse. In modern day vernacular, the earliest societies were, in my opinion theocracies and degree’s of theocracy. I view theocracy to be a form of communism. I do not buy into any definition of communism to be stateless. I do agree that a [state] is a geographic political entity (governance) possessing politicial sovereignty….and sovereignty to mean, the exclusive right to exercise supreme authority over a geographic region or group of people. So all the intellectual mumbo-jumbo of state socialism vs stateless communism, is just that…intellectual mumbo-lumo.

Brian…you stated: ["The roots of socialism are deep in Christianity."]

The conception of what constitutes socialism vs communism vary’s depending on the political perspective and analytical approach taken. Christianity is predated by who really knows how many millennium and religions. Not until capitalism evolved beginning in the 16th century AD did societies begin to experience much of anything but some forms of communism/socialism (as one chooses to define them) through a theocratic hierarchy. Anarcho-primitivists assert that, before recorded history, human society was organized on anarchist principles….and of course [recorded] advocacy of anarchism.

lolly….whether given freely or by doctrinal coercion, all western churches at least, are redistribution of wealth machines. Even more sad is that our nation is served by primarily the likes of the Salvation Army, the Goodwills, and food pantries not connected with any mainstream church. The Mormon Church sadly, is the only western church that has extensive, organized full service welfare programs inside their church….serving their membership. Yes, the Catholic Church also, has some limited area’s of welfare services.

TT, just out of curiosity, do you see Jefferson and Jackson as early liberals? Were there liberals, or the equivalent in this country, before Marx? How about the Utopians? The War-hawks? How about Roosevelt as a Commie War Hawk?

Dwight….Always, since the beginnings of time in communal existence, there has been a conscience struggle…even much later, among our founding fathers, of how much control a “governing body” should have vs how much they should not have over a society of people. Yes, there were “liberal minds” among the founders. Thats how we come to have a very delicate hybrid system of communism and anarchism.

“Thats how we come to have a very delicate hybrid system of communism and anarchism.”

Any system that has “balanced” its way to the point of supporting radical revolutionaries like Piven via government subsidies of salary and tuition has reached a point of Orwellian “doublethink” that it is indistinguishable from being clinically insane.

And such a system capable of such a balance is exceedingly unstable…the price to be paid for coddling those who seek to sink the ship they are passengers in.

Let’s cut through the philosophical bull, though.

What the NKVD did to the British with the Oxford and Cambridge spy rings, they rather obviously ALSO did to us.
The difference being that our Limey cousins unmasked some of their treasonous rats,(sadly letting the worst of them escape to the USSR), we did not similarly uncover the traitors, and Piven and her ilk, if not directly recruited by Moscow, were recruited by those that were.

In any rational nation, the likes of Piven wouldn’t be a college professor, but a thoroughly institutionalized jailbird or an exile, skulking about the dung-heaps of the planet like one of her doubtless heroes, Che Guevara.

Bilgeman…. My comments were simply to explain what the founding fathers desired as a NEW form of governance and economy for the new United States Republic…a delicate hybrid between communism and anarchism….the two opposing forces of social structure since the beginnings of time.

The Scylla and Charybdis that we oscillate between would be more accurately termed collectivism and individualism.

Using the word communism implies that the Founding Fathers were endorsing something that wouldn’t be invented yet for the next 60 years or so.
They may have influenced Marx, but Marx did not influence them.
And had it been possible and they read Marx, it is quite likely that they’d have had the man hanged,(the Founders were men of property, after all).

Likewise the term anarchy. The Founders were living in a a time and place where living anarchistically was not only possible, but for many was an everyday existence…just pull up stakes and head over the hills to virgin territory. None of the Founders was ready for a Rage Against the Machine mosh-pit, though.
Jefferson with his yeoman farmer freeholder ideal probably came the closest to that.

My point, however, is that this is all a misdirection into a philosophical parlor discussion.
Communism and communists were agents of a foreign power that are inimical to our national interest and sovereignty, and that fact should always be stated.

Folks need to be reminded that these bastards were anything but our friends.

Last night I read part of the chapter in Meier’s book which discusses the first reactions in Pennsylvania to the just published Constitution, which would be debated in the country for the next year. George Washington and a majority of people were in a rush to have it ratified, because he thought we needed it to become a strong country; things were falling apart and he was afraid that the country would split in many directions. All the arguments against it, with George Mason being the most prominent among the skeptical, were that it would make us like the government we have become.
The Bill of Rights, which was added later, addressed some of those concerns, but the overwhelming irony is that the people who want to “get back to the Constitution” now are closely related, given their viewpoints, to the people who did not want to ratify at all back then.
Actually, almost everyone knew that we needed something better than the Articles of Confederation, but feared the tyranny of a big government. If only they knew, eh?

In the end, every government is a fascist oligarchy. No other government is possible. Anything else is like pushing the marble up the bowl, to reach further into the heights of ‘civilization’ always requires more and more control of the people (the marble), eventually erupting in revolution (the falling of the marble to the bottom) where a group of people (because one person can’t rule everything effectively) take some democratic principles (in order to involve and placate the people into not rioting, which would destroy ANY government) and some fascist controls (since the ignorance of the people need time for capitalism to overcome random chance) which leads to corruption, control of the people, and revolution (not always by violent means, and not usually total).

Obama and his socialist cabal love to imply that they are “moderates” and “centrists”, working hard for the “middle class”. His newspeak (taxes are now contributions) is taken right out of Orwell’s “1984″, the classic anti-socialist novel the near future.

Once again, we see that the meme of the violent right is nothing more than projection. Kudo’s to Beck for shining a light on these people and shame on NYT and the Nation for once again being apologists for violent, anti-Americanism.

Good column, but one thing you touch upon, but which I think gets lost a bit in this story, is that Piven is not really a hypocrite. After all, hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue. Piven is a Marxist. She has no objective morality. There is only one moral axiom for her and her fellow marxists: the creation of the marxist socialist utopia on Earth, and any means is justified to bringing about that end. Any means, including lying, cheating, stealing, betrayal, and fomenting social upheaval and human misery, up to and including the deaths of millions. The 20th Century is replete with their homicidal willingness to do any and every thing to bring about their vision of utopia. It is sadly a mark many mainstream liberals, moderates and even conservatives miss in analyzing the actions and words of Marxists.

What is really revealing is how willing the NYT is to join in this “ends justifies the means” philosophy of Piven, by printing such a disingenuous article essentially blaming Beck for Piven’s radicalism.

What the defenders of Glenn Beck are not getting to is that besides quoting Piven, Beck has repeatedly made the accusation that she is the bottom part of a conspiracy with the president in the top position and if you watch you know the rest…So Beck is actually accusing Piven and the administration of Treason. How many of you Beck lovers truly believe that? I bet Beck doesn’t, because while he calls anyone he doesnt agree with politically an elitist, he also gives a glowing review to seeing a closed to the public performance of Batman on Broadway. But he is not an elitist, he is insincere. He doesn;t have to believe his half truths and innuendos, he just has to sell them to you. Make sure you vote against pre-existing condition coverage, yearly and lifetime caps, why would we change a health care system that is the biggest cause of personal bankruptcy in America. How can you not want that…viva insurance companies.

“What the defenders of Glenn Beck are not getting to is that besides quoting Piven, Beck has repeatedly made the accusation that she is the bottom part of a conspiracy with the president in the top position…”

So, in addition to not liking her words played back your objection, to Beck’s discussion of Piven is that she is made out to be a Faceless Minion(tm) rather than as a mover and a shaker and this distresses the ego of her and her friends? o_O

If she doesn’t like being pointed out as the stooge of a corrupt Machine politician then perhaps she should try not being a part of the Machine.

Beck and others have repeated Piven’s actual beliefs, philosophy and recommended strategies and tactics for undermining the United States government and replacing it with socialism. They have also called attention the the American socialist movement’s strategies of stealth, deliberate deception and subterfuge. What part of this do you think is not true? What is there not to believe? Her own words and writings for the past half century? Has she called for the destruction of the American government from within by “overwhelming” it with welfare claims, voter fraud and so on, or not? If not, then her extensive and explicit writings have been a monumental failure in communication. But they seem quirte clear.

So the question you need to ask yourself is, are you part of the campaign of deception, by denying her words actually mean what they say? Or do you actually not know the history of the socialist movement and its current grasp on the Democratic Party?

Barack Obama is following the leftist agenda almost to the letter. As presented in my 2008 Conspiracy of the Lemmings article, the Obama campaign’s policy positions were virtually identical to those of the CPUSA. Obama is chained at the wrists and ankles to Weathermen – not just Ayers and Dohrn – the Democratic Socialists of America, which are anything but, the CPUSA and other doctrinally anti-US organizations.

The hardcore leftist agenda is, by definition, treasonous, because they seek to utterly destroy western society – their own words. They have pretty much managed to do so everywhere else. If you read Cloward and Piven’s actual article, which I doubt you have, they characterize the “constant drain on local resources” resulting from dramatic increase of welfare payments, as a good thing. If you have toured inner city devastation in any big city, you can thank Cloward, Piven and the many other leftists and their policies that brought that about and DELIBERATELY THWART policies that would turn it around, because as Cloward and Piven explained, a pacified poor population are of no use to them. The people have to be agitated to the point of spontaneous revolt.

Cloward and Piven and those like them, are people claiming to want to help. Are you kidding? They are dangerous sociopaths, vicious and determined. The crimes they have committed are worse than murder, because they have consigned entire generations of people to abject poverty. There are laws against what they do and they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for so blatantly violating them.

I am surprised that a huge uprising has not happened already. My folks moved to Detroit in 1939 after no work had been available for 8 years. They put up with no jobs but kept looking. Today, with a world spoiled by good times, I thought the younger generation would react like the 60′s generation and maybe more so. Let’s hope they don’t have to. But—no jobs involves a lot of people. I am not in favor of a civil war but people without hope
do a lot of dangerous things. We, as a nation must be wary of how we treat the multitudes of people in the lower income groups.

Remind me again which party and ideology have run Detroit and Michigan for the last half century? Yes, Ronald, “we” must be careful how “we” treat “poor people.” How’s the victim template and the welfare state solution working out for the poor people?

She is loathesome and has blood on her hands already. Her and her husband came up with the idea of putting as many people on welfare as possible. They succeeded in New York, amongst black people. This has led to the complete destruction of black families, black fathers and black mothers. The abortion rate for black women in New York is 60%- most pregnancies end in abortion. The fathers- they end up being considered disposable- at some crazy high incarceration rate- vulnerable to Hepatitis, at minimum. If these families had stayed together, not been taxed at the rates necessarily for redistribution we wouldn’t just have one rich Puff Daddy, we’d have a solid, entrepeneurial, religious, black middle and upper- class. And since these people do tend to be Baptist and Evangelical- that is, the sort of people who evangelize in Africa and China- the “third world” – wouldn’t be so third.

She is a vulture feeding on the dead. Fortunately for her, police are honorable people who will protect her.

The bias of The Nation and the Times is pretty obvious here. Beck, who frequently quotes MLK and Ghandi on his program, on the importance of never resorting to violence, is called a violent hate monger, whose program must be suppressed to prevent violence, because he truthfully and accurately reported Piven’s own words, calling for actual violence. As for Piven getting some bad emails, I suspect Beck has gotten plenty more based on lies the left has told about him. Commentators must be judged on what they actually say and do, not on what some of their listeners do in opposition to their actual words. If Beck called for his followers to send threatening emails, then he would bear some responsibility if they did, but he did not.

This supports my own observation, that basically anytime the far left accuses the right of anything, it is normally a false accusation, and further, is something the far left are themselves guilty of. Those on the left, who accuse the right of racial bias, constantly classify people and treat people differently based on race, and now they falsly accuse the right of inciting violence, when they themselves actually do incite violence.

Hey, you can not use inflammatory words any more! So please be sensitive and civil to other people`s feelings. Now if you want someone to take a long ride and never come back. We just call it a full term abortion and uncle sam pays you. With the back log of orders some abortions take a little longer than others. So please we are doing the best we can, you know the economy is bad right now and even uncle sam is a little short!!

The NYTImes is the last bastion of whitewashing communist excesses and atrocities. While Duranty’s work no longer lives on in a column, it survives in the subtleties each day, wafting from the perfumed caskets, where truth is cremated or buried daily.
It’s a sort of journalistic ethic cleansing ritual, observed by the faithful, who have never met a Stalin apologist, or for that matter, a Chavez apologist, a Pol Pot apologist/whitewasher, a mass murdering Mao apologist, or a Che apologist/whitewasher…that it wouldn’t place on a pedestal.
There seems to be a new wave of apologia mania sweeping the far left reaches of the political spectrum, where the inane and insane reside, now looking to give a little cleansing to Hitler as well. Oliver Stone has permanent residence in this loony bin, but he has neighbors. And they all have the NYTImes delivered to their doorstep.
No man or woman of honor should continue working in such a place, ah…but they do. And perhaps THAT is the saddest fact of all. Those who know, from the inside…and remain silent.

Leftists like Piven always express themselves honestly in forums where they feel accepted, even adored, like the The Nation. Their remarks are intended only for those in their anti-American, conservative-hating orbit. When their comments receive general exposure they promptly deny them, claim they were misunderstood, are being deliberately distorted by the right, put them in physical danger, or produce some other personal catastophe. Reminds me of the Democratic representative who recently compared Republicans to Nazis and the Tea Party to the KKK and when confronted with his assertions quickly denied them while at the same time asserting them. You see, socialists and communists prefer to work in the shadows, in secret corridors and in the darkness of deception. They become startled and defensive when the light of day appears suddenly to reveal their hidden agenda and malicious intent to destroy this country and everyone who opposes them. They need serious psychological help and yet this is the one kind of relief they never campaigned for or insisted that the government should provide it. But then, is it really possible to help a man who believes in the depths of his being believes that he is Napoleon or a woman who believes she is Hera, the wife of Zeus?

A plague on Piven and a plague on her equal and opposite reflections here. — Dwight

Dwight seems to disapprove of violent rhetoric in his Jan 25, 2011, 2:01 pm, post. And then he goes ahead and calls down one of the most heinous ways for men and women and children to die, The Black Death.

When was the last time a group of ‘right wingers’ dawned football helmets and baseball bats and attempted to to take on the police with the expressed purpose of starting a violent revolution? Oh, that would be never.

The risk of exercising your First Amendment rights is that someone will object to what you say, and there’s really no telling how they’ll react to it. Ms. Pivens apparently gave no consideration to the consequences of exercising her rights in provoking public violence yet objects when the free speech of others has unintended consequences for her. What a hypocrite she is.