(This reply has been modified by me).Thank you for the clarification. Interestingly, this was my first "gut" thought, but I later let my left brain get the best of me...

With the risk of asking another stupid question Since you mention the planetary rulers, do you mean that wherever we find them...what sign and house there in and whatever aspekts they are making would combine with let's Sag 15 degrees (as an example)?

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No. These are simply natural archetypes reflected and symbolized by the natural trinity within any given sign. So, for example, if a Soul has a planet at 15 degrees of Sagittarius that will manifest, archetypically, as a combination of Sagittarius and Jupiter combined with Aries and Mars where the lead point is Sagittarius and Jupiter itself in which Aries and Mars are now adding to it.

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Are you referring to when we find any planet in let's say 15 degrees Sag...that we would then combine the archetypal meaning of that planet and the archtypal meaning of Sagitariius with that of the planetary ruler of Aries (Mars) and to look at where it is in the chart and what aspects it's making?

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Thus, far I have simply been talking about the natural trinity that exists with any given sign as archetypes. See my previous answer about this. In the example you are citing here one does not then look to where the natal Mars is.

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If I'm off track, can you give an example of how to use this?

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If a person has say Venus at 15 Sagittarius then that Venus is not only being conditioned by the archetypes of Sagittarius and Jupiter, but also the archetypes of Aries and Mars where Sagittarius and Jupiter are the baseline, the lead archetypes, in which the Aries and Mars are added onto.

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God Bless, Rad

Hi Rad and everyone,

Thank you for your answer and your patience Rad. Now I am clear on the progression. My five planets in the 3rd in Libra (incl. Mercury and Jupiter) are on a fact-gathering-ordering-searching-for-growth expedition and I keep telling them to look at the 9th house Aries polarity point (Aries on the 9th cusp), which even though it doesn’t have any planets in it is how I “found” EA . I do have a question at the bottom of this post in regards to your last answer.

This paragraph is how I have understood things in general:The natural zodiac is the totality of consciousness in human form. An individual’s horoscope, in terms of where the signs fall in the natural zodiac, correlates to the individual orientation to consciousness. Then, I thought that the planets (even though they share the archetype of the sign they rule) only hold meaning (by emphasis) in terms of where they are found?

My question is (which pertains to your general example with Venus in Sag): If we are to look at both Sagittarius and Jupiter, what is the difference between them, aside from what I wrote above? For example, I thought that Jupiter and Sagittarius share the same archetype and that the only difference is in how we apply them?

All the best,Henrik

Added modification:Right after I posted, this came into mind: Do you mean that each planetary ruler has a function? And, so, even though they share the same archetype, the planetary ruler do indeed add a component because it has a certain function? Maybe I’m just rambling…if so, very sorry.

This paragraph is how I have understood things in general:The natural zodiac is the totality of consciousness in human form. An individual’s horoscope, in terms of where the signs fall in the natural zodiac, correlates to the individual orientation to consciousness.Then, I thought that the planets (even though they share the archetype of the sign they rule) only hold meaning (by emphasis) in terms of where they are found?

My question is (which pertains to your general example with Venus in Sag): If we are to look at both Sagittarius and Jupiter, what is the difference between them, aside from what I wrote above? For example, I thought that Jupiter and Sagittarius share the same archetype and that the only difference is in how we apply them?

All the best,Henrik

Added modification:Right after I posted, this came into mind: Do you mean that each planetary ruler has a function? And, so, even though they share the same archetype, the planetary ruler do indeed add a component because it has a certain function? Maybe I’m just rambling…if so, very sorry.

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No need to be sorry, you are asking the questions that you have in order to be clear. We all do that, so need to be sorry for that.

The signs on the houses do indeed correlate with how any given Soul's consciousness in orientated to phenomenal reality. So, for example, the 11th House correlates to specific archetypes within human consciousness, and any sign on that house then correlates to the archetypes, defined by that sign, of how any given Soul's consciousness is orientated to that 11th House. In essence, they are conditioning that 11th House for the evolutionary purposes of that Soul.

The specific location of the planet that rules that sign, in this example Sagittarius which is ruled by Jupiter of course, then further conditions that orientation by it own house and sign placement. This in turn can be further conditioned by any aspects that it is making to other planets. The way JWG used to explain this is that the specific location of the planets within the birth chart correlate with the psychology within the consciousness of the individual Soul.

"I'm grappling with the decile - waxing and waning. What archetype(s) does it correspond with? "

yes, I have never seen it mentioned in any of JWG's book and a search on this board only brought it up in a long lists of aspects. I did find this which relates it to the Quintile. This brings to mind Leo archetype - creativity. But I am wondering in relation to the phases, what archetype modifies this. Here is what I found:

"The Decile, or Semi-quintile, is a 36 degree aspect showing a partly developed creative uniqueness, a minor gift, or some other manifestation of specialized creativity. It either secures a unique tendency, or is the final flowering of a gift already realized. The Biquintile, as the name implies, is a 144 degree aspect showing a unique interactive situation, where one gift interacts with another gift, creatively and/or regeneratively. It is an interactive unique form of self-expression that often involves other people and their unique gifts, whether they align harmoniously with yours or not. Last but not least, we now take a look at the least-understood aspect in the series, the Tredecile. This is a highly specialized aspect of 108 degrees, which besides being a mythological "Sacred number" symbolizing Divine Mother Energy, is also the complementary angle to the Quintile. Thus the Tredecile indicates a very special type of unique energy that complements whatever uniqueness, gifts, or specialized quintessence are occurring at the moment in a situation. I have seen this aspect operate in several fashions, and all seem to involve a circumstance presenting itself that perfectly fits a unique gift or need, or a gift or unique quality that fits the need of a pre-existing circumstance. The Tredecile is complementary, interactive, and specialized, the "quintessence" of a thing perfectly complementing the "quintessence" of a circumstance. When active, it seems to bring forth unique qualities in situations that involve interaction to bring forth awareness, completion, polarization, or re-polarization. The points opposite the planets in Tredecile are often associated with how the energies manifest, some need being fulfilled, some promise brought to expression, or some specialized gift or talent completed.I have given it the keyword "SERENDIPITY." I believe this is the best descriptor for how the Tredecile works its magic. "

No need to be sorry, you are asking the questions that you have in order to be clear. We all do that, so need to be sorry for that.

The signs on the houses do indeed correlate with how any given Soul's consciousness in orientated to phenomenal reality. So, for example, the 11th House correlates to specific archetypes within human consciousness, and any sign on that house then correlates to the archetypes, defined by that sign, of how any given Soul's consciousness is orientated to that 11th House. In essence, they are conditioning that 11th House for the evolutionary purposes of that Soul.

The specific location of the planet that rules that sign, in this example Sagittarius which is ruled by Jupiter of course, then further conditions that orientation by it own house and sign placement. This in turn can be further conditioned by any aspects that it is making to other planets. The way JWG used to explain this is that the specific location of the planets within the birth chart correlate with the psychology within the consciousness of the individual Soul.

Let me know if this is clear enough. If not, please ask more.

God Bless, Rad[/quote]

Hi Rad,

Thank you for you answer and kindness. My 10th house Saturn inconjunct my Uranus/Mercury in the 3rd in Libra alwas expects the worst when I communicate in public. The way you stated it is how I have understood it.

What I was not sure about was how to apply Aries and Mars in the Ven 15 deg Sag. example. I think I get the Aries part, but should I also look at Mars, it's location in the chart etc or just Mars as having a function, related to the Aries archetype, but not where it is found in the chart?

"What I was not sure about was how to apply Aries and Mars in the Ven 15 deg Sag. example. I think I get the Aries part, but should I also look at Mars, it's location in the chart etc or just Mars as having a function, related to the Aries archetype, but not where it is found in the chart? "

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No. The Aries/Mars archetypes within that 15 degree Venus in Sagittarius example simply means, again, that it's an archetype within the Sagittarius archetype. Mars and Aries, archetypically, are the same. So, no, you don't want to link this with the actual placement of Mars but you do want to add the Aries/Mars archetype to the Jupiter/ Sagittarius archetype in terms of understanding Venus at 15 Sagittarius in that example.