I want DT14 to be a move away from the gothic sounds, the melodramatic epic orchestral stuff, the dark and stormy riffs, the predictable vocal lines, etc... I don't care for the overall ambiance of the 2010s albums compared to the 2000s. The last two albums have felt like one long ballad with lots of crazy instrumental stuff in between.

Now, once we estabilished that there are ways to continue the story.... do we all agree they shouldn't at all?

I don't agree. I think they should tread very carefully, but if JP is so inclined (which I don't think he is) and can figure out a way to do it well, I'm all for it. They definitely should not do it just for the sake of doing it, though.

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"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo." John Myung

DT just posted on FB this very question, basically copying and pasting the title thread and the four poll options!

I ACTUALLY feel honored that DT posted a thread started by me on their facebook page.

One of their guys was actually emailing me last week to ask for my thoughts. Unfortunately, I was in Mexico and didn't have access to email, so I didn't see it. As a result, they went with basically your poll. But that was a great choice to start things off, and I might have suggested something similar had I been here anyway.

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"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Waiting For the Punchline, yes. I saw that tour in Boston. Little did we know, they were calling it quits after the tour and during the song "No Regrets", a song Mangini played on they destroyed their equipment akin to The Who. The place went nuts!

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“I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? -- BlobVanDam

From my point off view, i like DT at their most experimental (SDOIT for example) so i would really love them to get together and make a record without any pre-conceived idea. Something organic and spontaneous, and collaborative.

Actually, they did have a very well preconceived idea before making what ended up being SDoIT, though they changed it afterwards after JP and Mike went to see Pantera which inspired them to do at least TGP (and apparently they did experiment from there on in the rest of the album).. I just read it in Rich Wilson's biography, where Portnoy also tells this fun fact about it:

"...we were on the 2000 tour in Europe and Jordan, John Petrucci and I were on a plane discussing plans to make the album some sort of World Music album, but still keeping it Dream Theater. What we were going to do was that each song would represent the style or flavor of a different country. And we would incorporate these different styles or sounds, keys, modes, scales or rhythms and try to do different things in a World Music sort of progressive metal way. We did take a couple of those Master classes and learned some different, weird African rhythms and it was interesting. The biggest irony is that when John and I were out on the G3 tour in 2001 [when they had already decided not to do it like that] Steve Vai's "Alive in an Ultra World" comes out and the concept behind that album is exactly what we were going to do! So it worked out good that we ended up abandoning that idea."

basically since MP left each record has felt like it had a preconceived theme or idea. ADTOE was the "classic" DT album, DT was the "short song structure with an epic at the end" album and TA obviously was very pre-planned.

I kind of disagree.. MP himself has been precisely the guy that wanted to have eveything "directed" beforehand, and most of the albums with him have been preconceived in that aspect... well, at least since Metropolis pt 2, from which they really started deciding the direction of each album.. Except SDoIT and maybe SC, in the rest of the albums within that period they already knew more or less what the album would sound like before start writing it..

Actually, they did have a very well preconceived idea before making what ended up being SDoIT, though they changed it afterwards after JP and Mike went to see Pantera which inspired them to do at least TGP (and apparently they did experiment from there on in the rest of the album).. I just read it in Rich Wilson's biography, where Portnoy also tells this fun fact about it:

"...we were on the 2000 tour in Europe and Jordan, John Petrucci and I were on a plane discussing plans to make the album some sort of World Music album, but still keeping it Dream Theater. What we were going to do was that each song would represent the style or flavor of a different country. And we would incorporate these different styles or sounds, keys, modes, scales or rhythms and try to do different things in a World Music sort of progressive metal way. We did take a couple of those Master classes and learned some different, weird African rhythms and it was interesting. The biggest irony is that when John and I were out on the G3 tour in 2001 [when they had already decided not to do it like that] Steve Vai's "Alive in an Ultra World" comes out and the concept behind that album is exactly what we were going to do! So it worked out good that we ended up abandoning that idea."

Something they have never really done which I think would be cool would be to have a few short interlude instrumental tracks, maybe where a main melody from a later song is played in a more mellow way on a piano or acoustic guitar for a minute or two. Think of how the Flower Kings did that on Stardust We Are. It would give the album kind of a thematic feel, while not being overblown conceptually (since I know they want to do a "normal" album again).

Something they have never really done which I think would be cool would be to have a few short interlude instrumental tracks, maybe where a main melody from a later song is played in a more mellow way on a piano or acoustic guitar for a minute or two. Think of how the Flower Kings did that on Stardust We Are. It would give the album kind of a thematic feel, while not being overblown conceptually (since I know they want to do a "normal" album again).

Something they have never really done which I think would be cool would be to have a few short interlude instrumental tracks, maybe where a main melody from a later song is played in a more mellow way on a piano or acoustic guitar for a minute or two. Think of how the Flower Kings did that on Stardust We Are. It would give the album kind of a thematic feel, while not being overblown conceptually (since I know they want to do a "normal" album again).

They kind of did that with Octavarium, the only difference was the negative time and that the interludes were ambient music. So, that would be new and pretty cool.

Something they have never really done which I think would be cool would be to have a few short interlude instrumental tracks, maybe where a main melody from a later song is played in a more mellow way on a piano or acoustic guitar for a minute or two. Think of how the Flower Kings did that on Stardust We Are. It would give the album kind of a thematic feel, while not being overblown conceptually (since I know they want to do a "normal" album again).

Arguably Vacant was an inversion of that - with the mellow lyrical track for a minute or two followed by a big instrumental piece.

You've reminded me of a different thing thing but along similar lines, where I think during the Systematic Chaos sessions(?) they were talking about each member writing and performing a short solo piece for the album. With everyone being involved in the songwriting this time, and with the "as-live" approach to recording, little solo spots like you'd get in a live gig could work quite nicely and emphasise the band atmosphere.

Or jams, actually, I'd prefer jams - so you'd get a song that's drum *driven* and that Mangini's taken the lead on, rather than literally just a drum solo on an album. Nobody wants a drum solo on an album. Not even drummers.

You've reminded me of a different thing thing but along similar lines, where I think during the Systematic Chaos sessions(?) they were talking about each member writing and performing a short solo piece for the album. With everyone being involved in the songwriting this time, and with the "as-live" approach to recording, little solo spots like you'd get in a live gig could work quite nicely and emphasise the band atmosphere.

So...something like what Yes did on Fragile? That wouldn't be a bad thing, although, of the "solo" tracks on Fragile, I think only "The Fish" and "Mood for a Day" are worth listening to.

Dynamic. I was listening to Opeth Sorceress in the car today and it just floors me when they have these haunting quiet moments that just roar to life for a big dramatic section. It reminds me of 70's vinyl albums that did much the same thing. I'd love JP to embed an ax in the compression dial of the mastering board.

Most of all I want dynamic unexpected song structures filled with chaos and structure I guess that goes a long way personally. Whenever they do something like Glass Prison, This Dying Soul, Octavarium (which would be the ultimate definition of what I want I guess), ACOS, Breaking All Illusions etc. I get knocked down. Lost not Forgotten and Outcry can be examples where it doesn't work for me. It sounds very predictable and lacks some systematic chaos (not the album )! Just go freaking crazy I say!

Yeah, I wouldn't mind that at all, to have a "crazy" song that it takes a month to fully understand it and be able to describe it. "Well, there's the intro of course, then the first verse, which is not really a verse, then there's this crazy section and what I think is the chorus, problem is there's another chorus-sy section later, before what I'd call the big solo but then there's another part near the end and.... ah, don't know, I have to listen to it again". That kind of song

Yeah, I wouldn't mind that at all, to have a "crazy" song that it takes a month to fully understand it and be able to describe it. "Well, there's the intro of course, then the first verse, which is not really a verse, then there's this crazy section and what I think is the chorus, problem is there's another chorus-sy section later, before what I'd call the big solo but then there's another part near the end and.... ah, don't know, I have to listen to it again". That kind of song

Exactly, me too.. And they did say in the live streaming that having 10+ minute songs is a possibility this time around (we haven't had any since BAI )..

Yeah, I wouldn't mind that at all, to have a "crazy" song that it takes a month to fully understand it and be able to describe it. "Well, there's the intro of course, then the first verse, which is not really a verse, then there's this crazy section and what I think is the chorus, problem is there's another chorus-sy section later, before what I'd call the big solo but then there's another part near the end and.... ah, don't know, I have to listen to it again". That kind of song

Yeah, I wouldn't mind that at all, to have a "crazy" song that it takes a month to fully understand it and be able to describe it. "Well, there's the intro of course, then the first verse, which is not really a verse, then there's this crazy section and what I think is the chorus, problem is there's another chorus-sy section later, before what I'd call the big solo but then there's another part near the end and.... ah, don't know, I have to listen to it again". That kind of song

Exactly, me too.. And they did say in the live streaming that having 10+ minute songs is a possibility this time around (we haven't had any since BAI )..

Yeah, I wouldn't mind that at all, to have a "crazy" song that it takes a month to fully understand it and be able to describe it. "Well, there's the intro of course, then the first verse, which is not really a verse, then there's this crazy section and what I think is the chorus, problem is there's another chorus-sy section later, before what I'd call the big solo but then there's another part near the end and.... ah, don't know, I have to listen to it again". That kind of song

Exactly, me too.. And they did say in the live streaming that having 10+ minute songs is a possibility this time around (we haven't had any since BAI )..

Yeah, I wouldn't mind that at all, to have a "crazy" song that it takes a month to fully understand it and be able to describe it. "Well, there's the intro of course, then the first verse, which is not really a verse, then there's this crazy section and what I think is the chorus, problem is there's another chorus-sy section later, before what I'd call the big solo but then there's another part near the end and.... ah, don't know, I have to listen to it again". That kind of song

Exactly, me too.. And they did say in the live streaming that having 10+ minute songs is a possibility this time around (we haven't had any since BAI )..

Illumination Theory gets no respect

I absolutely love it, but that one has 22 minutes..

So...what exactly did you mean when you said we haven't had a "10+ minute song[] . . . since BAI"? A 22:17 song certainly is a "10+ minute song." Right?

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"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo." John Myung

Maybe he means a song that it's as long as Breaking All Illusion, but not a monster epic going over 20' like Illumination Theory, A Change of Seasons or Octavarium. Songs long like Voices, Scarred, Trail of Tears, In the Name of God, that kind of stuff.

Maybe he means a song that it's as long as Breaking All Illusion, but not a monster epic going over 20' like Illumination Theory, A Change of Seasons or Octavarium. Songs long like Voices, Scarred, Trail of Tears, In the Name of God, that kind of stuff.

Yeah, I meant to say any songs between 10 and 19 minutes, but didn't know how to say it right..