If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

While I would readily agree with you if we were talking about, say, He-Man, Skeletor, Man At Arms, Hordak, She Ra, Teela, Evil-Lynn, the Sorceress, or even Randor or Orko....we're not.

I just don't view Rattlor, or even King Hiss for that matter, to be of sufficient level to warrant more than one version AT THIS TIME. And more importantly, I'm not seeing Mattel make the investments in the line (or even an attempt to increase the potential revenues of the line, come on, a mere repaint or reissue in addition to the normal monthly figure would surely generate extra income for them...) to make a second version that viable.

Looking at Webstor (whose design was just as varied as Rattlor's two versions), I think we'll end up with a "homogenized" version just as with Webstor, Hordak, and Zodak. I love the 200x designs, and particularly adore the Snakemen as villians, but unless Mattel forks out for some new parts, or at least make some kind of texturing effect on the base body (something I haven't seen outside the Beastman/Stratos base), I have doubts how well Rattlor will be done to begin with.

Personally, I think we're at the point that Mattel could justify at least 3 new body bases:
Snake (for Rattlor, Tung Lashor, and maybe Squeeze and Snake-face)
Lanky (Kobra Khan, Buzz-off, and maybe a redone Stratos)
Mech (Roboto, Sy-Klone, Meckaneck, and maybe a redone Man At Arms)

1. How do you think MotUC Rattlor/The General would be? 2 different figures - a regular one and a bonus? 1 figure with 2 swappable heads?

I hope this figure comes with his 200X armor. As Mattel has stated regarding figures such as Leech, I think he should have both a vintage-style and a 200X head.

2. The original Rattlor had a "rattle sound" action feature. Should Mattel replicate this in MotUC since it's basically just a couple of plastic beads in Rattlor's body?

I think throwing a few little beads into the body somewhere (or the tail) would be a feasible addition, and I don't think it quite qualifies as the sort of action feature Mattel won't do. I hope General Rattlor rattles!!!

3. How do you want the tail to be? Soft plastic? Hard attachment? Detachable so that he can sit?

I think his tail should be a bendable attachment, with rattling beads inside!

4. Do you think we'll get yellow neck and red neck variants? Do you want this to be included as "multiple heads"?

I don't think we need two necks, but I think that it should follow the color scheme of his body, with yellow/taupe markings on the inside/belly and red on the back.

I cannot wait to add some snakemen to my MOTUC collection, despite the fact that I detest snakes...!

Neither was ZodaK, Green Goddess, Wun-Dar. Yet all of those have been/are being released.

But all three were effectively new characters. Rattlor and "The General" are the same fundamental character. Just like Fisto and "Battle Fist" are the same character, Mattel just couldn't use the original names due to changes in trademark laws over the past 20 years.

Rattlor appeared more times in MYP than Zodak did and Zodak got a figure.

Generally speaking, Zodac (with Zodak having really just been an updated version of him for 200X... the fact that they are 2 separate characters now was just sort of a way to help justify the separate figures) is still a more well known, high profile character amongst MOTU fans in general.

Being that the original Zodac figure was part of the 80s MOTU line early on in the line, he was much more high profile. In the 80s, the Snakemen came towards the end of the MOTU craze. They really didn't have much presence on the cartoon series, and I think Rattlor did appear, looking nothing like his toy incarnation if memory serves.

He may have appeared a good amount in 200X, but it was still towards the end of the show and toy line were dieing off. And regardless of that, he was just one amongst many Snakemen. He really wasn't built up to be much of an individually important character the same way that Zodak was.

Also, having said that, there was also more drastic differences between the 80s Zodac and 200X Zodak than there are between the Rattlor variations. The biggest of which being his skin color and the tattoos of the 200X version, which are things that cannot really be easily facilitated through optional accessories.

Rattlors Design isn't really THAT much different from his old design. The biggest differences are the armor and the face design. And that issue can be easily solved by giving him removable armor and an alternate head. They will likely handle his neck via the removable head option, so just make a neck extension piece, and give him the 2 different heads, each of which can work with or without that extension piece.

Sure, his build changed some between the 2 versions, but they can probably just find a happy medium between the two (plus they'll probably want to reuse parts anyway, so the build will likely be more "neutral".... even if they were to make the 2 different versions as 2 separate figures, I wouldn't count on a whole new body sculpt for the 200X version anyway).

Originally Posted by Viper Steve

While I would readily agree with you if we were talking about, say, He-Man, Skeletor, Man At Arms, Hordak, She Ra, Teela, Evil-Lynn, the Sorceress, or even Randor or Orko....we're not.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Novelty

Neither was ZodaK, Green Goddess, Wun-Dar. Yet all of those have been/are being released.

But that's very different. You aren't comparing apples to apples here.

Regarding Zodak/c, see my explanation about both his prominence in the 80s Toyline and especially his different look (namely skin color and tattoos) were things that couldn't be accomplished in one figure with alternate parts. So instead, they took the same figure, used most of the same parts from Zodak (with a few borrowed from He-Ro), recolored them, and that's how they made Zodak. And since people have noted the starkly different personalities of the 80s Zodac and 200X Zodak, Mattel decided to just make them 2 different characters for this line.

As for Green Goddess, she isn't even as much of a gray area as Zodac/k. She IS a seaprate character from Teela. And again, given that it's not so much a different design/new tooling that is needed to make her, but rather a drastically different coloring of an existing design, it can't be combined into one figure.

These figures didn't really require any new tooling accept for maybe a unique accessory (i.e. Zodak's staff, Goddess' staff, Wun-Dar's bread loaf), and instead required recoloring. And despite their obscurity, they are justified in being so low on new tooling. These bonus figures are having a lower run than the regular figures. Toyguru said that Zodak had one of the lowest runs so far and likely wouldn't be remade. I guarantee you that if these figures required more in the way of new tooling, they wouldn't be made at all. We are getting them because they can take the molds that they already have and reuse them, just using different colored plastic and paint.

With Rattlor, the whole gray area over his 80s toy and 200X incarnations doesn't exist in the same way it does with Zodac/k. The simply called him "The General" in 200X toy form due to copyright issues. He was still called Rattlor in the show, and even though he wasn't specifically a "general" (that I recall) in the 80s minicomics, his fundamental purpose of serving King Hiss is the same. He's not a separate charater.

Additionally, his 2 different looks can easily be achieved by simply giving him removable armor and an alternate head. His actual body isn't a completely different color in each version. There's no reason why he can't be handled in a similar manner as Mer-Man.

I would like to say that I am actually more or less pro-200X Rattlor. I actually think they improved him compared to his 80s version. That figure was kind of boring looking, and was only cool due to the head pop-out feature IMO. But, regardless of how I personally feel about it, I'm looking at this from the most logical standpoint on how to handle it.

But all three were effectively new characters. Rattlor and "The General" are the same fundamental character. Just like Fisto and "Battle Fist" are the same character, Mattel just couldn't use the original names due to changes in trademark laws over the past 20 years.

That's what I'm saying...they could make Rattlor and The General two different characters like they did with Zodak and Zodac. The vintage one is a thug, clad only in a loincloth, while the armored 200X version is a general.

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Generally speaking, Zodac (with Zodak having really just been an updated version of him for 200X... the fact that they are 2 separate characters now was just sort of a way to help justify the separate figures) is still a more well known, high profile character amongst MOTU fans in general.

Being that the original Zodac figure was part of the 80s MOTU line early on in the line, he was much more high profile. In the 80s, the Snakemen came towards the end of the MOTU craze. They really didn't have much presence on the cartoon series, and I think Rattlor did appear, looking nothing like his toy incarnation if memory serves.

He may have appeared a good amount in 200X, but it was still towards the end of the show and toy line were dieing off. And regardless of that, he was just one amongst many Snakemen. He really wasn't built up to be much of an individually important character the same way that Zodak was.

Rattlor not only had more screentime and episodes than Zodac, he also had two subplots: the rivalry with Kobra Khan (which was ongoing) and was captured by the Masters. He was the most prominent of the Snake Men besides Kobra Khan and King Hiss, which was the last 3rd of the episodes. Zodak might have had a bigger build up, but he wasn't in half the episodes that Rattlor was. I'm not saying that Rattlor is a bigger character than Zodak, but he certainly isn't a generic Snake Man.

Also, having said that, there was also more drastic differences between the 80s Zodac and 200X Zodak than there are between the Rattlor variations. The biggest of which being his skin color and the tattoos of the 200X version, which are things that cannot really be easily facilitated through optional accessories.

Rattlors Design isn't really THAT much different from his old design. The biggest differences are the armor and the face design. And that issue can be easily solved by giving him removable armor and an alternate head. They will likely handle his neck via the removable head option, so just make a neck extension piece, and give him the 2 different heads, each of which can work with or without that extension piece.

Now THAT would be great! Vintage head, 200X head and long neck. Hopefully they can do it...

Sure, his build changed some between the 2 versions, but they can probably just find a happy medium between the two (plus they'll probably want to reuse parts anyway, so the build will likely be more "neutral".... even if they were to make the 2 different versions as 2 separate figures, I wouldn't count on a whole new body sculpt for the 200X version anyway).

I think the build really isn't an issue since MOTUC isn't making really big characters like Ram Man, Clawful, Whiplash, Beast Man, etc. Unless they made his upper torso a little wider, with bigger arms like the 200X figure. But this is unlikely.

That's what I'm saying...they could make Rattlor and The General two different characters like they did with Zodak and Zodac. The vintage one is a thug, clad only in a loincloth, while the armored 200X version is a general.

MGM, your suggestion run the risk of people complaining about "Mattel is killin teh lien"

Seriously though, I don't see why Mattel can't do what MGM suggests. They did it with Zodac/Zodak, with Teela/Green Goddess, with He-Man/Wun-dar, i.e. created a whole new character out of a repaint. (And Faker/He-Man/Prince Adam in the original line). Likewise I have no objections to them making Rattlor and The General as 2 different characters, both still being Snakemen. This would also expand the Snakemen faction somewhat (and we do know the Snakemen has the smallest faction).

eh, i still dont see any reason to make the general and rattlor 2 different characters. they have essentially the same paint job, the only difference is the armor and head(which i feel is ONLY different because of the style of animation) personally, i think there is more difference between the original squeezee and the 200x squeezee then there are with the general and rattlor i mean this argument just doesnt make much sense to me, on the figure the only real differences are the armor, and the head, and the head doesnt even look that different when u compare filmation to 200x, the vintage toy is the stand out head.

i mean im pro 200x for most figures, it just seems to me, and i could be wrong, that the general/rattlor issue isnt the much of a problem. thats my opinion anyway

It always takes me 10 minutes to figure out how to edit this signature

MGM, your suggestion run the risk of people complaining about "Mattel is killin teh lien"

Seriously though, I don't see why Mattel can't do what MGM suggests. They did it with Zodac/Zodak, with Teela/Green Goddess, with He-Man/Wun-dar, i.e. created a whole new character out of a repaint. (And Faker/He-Man/Prince Adam in the original line). Likewise I have no objections to them making Rattlor and The General as 2 different characters, both still being Snakemen. This would also expand the Snakemen faction somewhat (and we do know the Snakemen has the smallest faction).

The biggest reasons for making him two characters is because the classic Rattlor is so different from the General--a different head, armor and paint is usually all that's needed to make a whole new character in this line. Conceivably The General could be another rattlesnake Snake man. They could really get this off by coloring The General in his MYP colors (orange with no yellow and blue strips), while Rattlor retains his vintage colors.

Okay, I seriously think everyone is missing the point of the 2002 series. When you guys talk about 2002 styled figures, you seem to think we mean a completely new mold. What we mean is that we want THE ARMOR to resemble the 2002 style, along with the heads. Why does everyone here assume we mean do a completely new figure? New armor DOES NOT constitute as a new figure. I don't see how having a Tri-Klops with drappery styled armor around the waist is suddenly an entirely new mold.

Last edited by Dr Kain; November 26, 2009 at 01:34am.

Can someone PM me the US number for Matty? I want to talk to someone who might has a clue of what is going on.

Okay, I seriously think everyone is missing the point of the 2002 series. When you guys talk about 2002 styled figures, you seem to think we mean a completely new mold. What we mean is that we want THE ARMOR to resemble the 2002 style, along with the heads. Why does everyone here assume we mean do a completely new figure? New armor DOES NOT constitute as a new figure. I don't see how having a Tri-Klops with drappery styled armor around the waist is suddenly an entirely new mold.

Alot of posts to this thread are suggesting two seperate characters, Rattlor and the General as two seperate figures. Some of us, myself included, say make the General armor removable and there you have Rattlor, and that would/should please everyone.

Alot of posts to this thread are suggesting two seperate characters, Rattlor and the General as two seperate figures. Some of us, myself included, say make the General armor removable and there you have Rattlor, and that would/should please everyone.

I don't think that would please the crowd that wants 2 separate figures. I have no idea but removable armor + 2 heards + neck extension + snake staff + rattle + tail may be a bit too many accessories for just one figure.

Okay, I seriously think everyone is missing the point of the 2002 series. When you guys talk about 2002 styled figures, you seem to think we mean a completely new mold. What we mean is that we want THE ARMOR to resemble the 2002 style, along with the heads. Why does everyone here assume we mean do a completely new figure? New armor DOES NOT constitute as a new figure. I don't see how having a Tri-Klops with drappery styled armor around the waist is suddenly an entirely new mold.

When MOTUC gets to Rattlor they'll have to either make two very different versions a combined mix that will be too 200X for some and too vintage for others, that can be customized by each fan into 200X Rattlor or vintage Rattlor OR they can make more money by separating them into two characters--vintage fans will have their Rattlor while 200X fans get the General.

It all boils down to whether if Mattel CAN make Rattlor's arm & leg armor removable and are willing to do the heads the way Dynamo described.

Originally Posted by Novelty

I don't think that would please the crowd that wants 2 separate figures. I have no idea but removable armor + 2 heards + neck extension + snake staff + rattle + tail may be a bit too many accessories for just one figure.

Being realistic, since Rattlor doesn't come with a lot of accessories, we're going to get a Rattlor with a classic-shaped head, classic coloring, a removable neck to simulate his extending neck gimmick, and removable 200X-inspired armor. There will be no separate "The General" release. There's no point; it's a slightly different head on the same body for the exact same character. At least with Zodac and Zodak they're not the same thing at all. Different look, different background, different allegiance, different name, different character.

Don't get me wrong. I love 200X as much as the next guy. I'm in favor of 200X Adam over classic Adam, would have preferred a bit more technology in my Tri-Klops, and hope Evil-Lynn is pale instead of yellow, but characters like this, there won't be separate versions of them. We won't see a long-haired "200X" Teela, we won't see a techno Tri-Klops, we won't see Disco Skeletor.

And frankly, the 200X snake men designs (except for Khan) were garbage anyway. Too cartoony and indistinct dino-lizard monster, not snake enough. I for one welcome slapping the 200X elements on the better, more snake Rattlor as the gestalt Rattlor who is in every way better than the sum of his parts.

Well, for me Rattlor was okay as a figure and character in the vintage line, but the MYP rendition of him really made me sit up and take notice.
I enjoyed his increased status among the snake men and overall meaner look. I guess he was to Hss what Evil-Lyn is to Skeletor, the 2IC as they say.

Two seperate characters? Initially I was skeptical about the idea, but there are enough differences between the vintage and 200x versions to make a distinction between the characters feasible.
You could have Rattlor the snakeman and The General as...well, The General. That does pose something of a problem for Rattlor in that it diminishes his status though, so I don't know how many fans would be happy about that.

Failing that, I'd be content enough with an alagam of the two, as long as they don't give him those silly stumpy legs of the original figure. The rattle feature I can take or leave; I'm not too bothered either way.

If he's going to be only one character, I wonder if he justifies having two seperate heads. The vintage, and something approaching the 200x head. (Not a direct translation of the 200x head obviously.)

Head - mix of vintage and 200X
Detachable body, hand and leg armor for General Rattlor.
The only problematic part might be the loincloth which was furry red in vintage version and black scales in 200X. Maybe they can do it like Grizzlor's 200X loincloth or something ...

Two seperate characters? Initially I was skeptical about the idea, but there are enough differences between the vintage and 200x versions to make a distinction between the characters feasible.
You could have Rattlor the snakeman and The General as...well, The General. That does pose something of a problem for Rattlor in that it diminishes his status though, so I don't know how many fans would be happy about that.

What status does the General diminish? Vintage Rattlor was only a thug.

Fans want the red Classic Rattlor without the armor.
The General can be the big orange guy WITH the armor.

Failing that, I'd be content enough with an alagam of the two, as long as they don't give him those silly stumpy legs of the original figure. The rattle feature I can take or leave; I'm not too bothered either way.

Hey LAY-Z MAN!!! WAKE UP! Time to do one of them 200X photoshops! Make a MYP Rattlor.

If he's going to be only one character, I wonder if he justifies having two seperate heads. The vintage, and something approaching the 200x head. (Not a direct translation of the 200x head obviously.)

This is another reason why'd he'd be two characters...no MYP head would come with the vintage version. Old school Rattlor would probably come with King Hsss' staff and the alternate head would be his vintage head with neck enlongated (unless the neck was another piece).