Failure is a hot topic in the startup world. It’s shamed and praised, hidden and open, discussed and debated, but it is still a long way from being accepted as is. At Slush 2016, co-founders of three globally successful companies shared their thoughts on failure – and how it got them to where they are today.

Yesterday the Founder Stage hosted a panel of epic Nordic talent: from Finland, Ilkka Paananen, CEO of Supercell, and from Sweden, Daniel Ek, CEO and Co-Founder of Spotify, and Niklas Zennström, Co-Founder of Skype, CEO & Partner at Atomico.

Robin Wauters, Founding Editor of Tech.eu, and panel moderator, kicked things off by saying, “you three have achieved so much – great companies, great products, but we’re not going to talk about any of that. We’re going talk about all those times you messed up.”

Below are some excerpts from the conversation. The quotes are long, but they’re worth reading:

Failure is inevitable

Daniel Ek: “What we did is we disregarded the mobile impact on the world. We realized that we made a strategic mistake like three years back and now we had to bet an entire company to fix it. And it took us about 18 months to do that. It was back in 2013 and it was a defining moment. In my view, every great company has at least three near death experiences.”

Failure is necessary

Niklas Zennström: “Failure is part of the process. Skype would have never been made if we didn’t do Kazaa first, and Kazaa was a big failure. We had massive financial losses, we made a lot of enemies, but we learned so much. We learned about peer-to-peer interaction, and we learned that a small team from Europe can be something global. And that was the only way we could be ready to build Skype.”

Failure is part of risk

Ilkka Paananen: “We make mistakes all the time. I would be worried if we didn’t. If it feels safe, you are not driving fast enough. Innovation means risk taking, and risk taking means you will fail more often than you will succeed. If you didn’t fail, it means you didn’t try.”

It’s tough to make the call

Niklas Zennström: “Pulling the plug is a very difficult decision. In general it’s difficult to make negative decisions. But it’s even harder because great entrepreneurs are resilient. They have to be able to stick it out until the end. If there is a sinking ship, the captain should be the last one leaving. So it’s hard to know – is this just a very dark moment and we’re going to come out stronger on the other side? Or should we really move on? It’s difficult to make that call. And there is no given answer to that. You have to use your judgement.”

Change is part of the process

Daniel Ek: “People talk a lot about the culture, how it changes and how they try to keep it the same, but that is not the case at Spotify. I was 23 when I started Spotify and I am 33 now. I was single and spraying champagne at people in bars and today I go home to my two kids and watch Homeland. I’ve grown and matured and I have different appreciation for work-life balance. And I think the company culture changes overtime as you and the founder and CEO also change.”

Heroes fail, fail, fail

Ilkka Paananen: “The community tends to only celebrate entrepreneurs who have been successful, and the only way to talk about mistakes they’ve made like today is to get successful people to talk about their mistakes. But I think it’s a shame because if you think that there are 10 companies that may be starting, and one of those entrepreneurs is successful, it means that 9 aren’t. But I think we should create an environment that would encourage those 9 people that “failed” to try again. And to me the people that failed, failed, failed, and tried again, those are the heroes of entrepreneurship and they should be celebrated.”

Larisa Topalo

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