From a modern sociological perspective, it's easy to denounce the pentecostal snakehandlers as crazy. Of course, doctrinally speaking, they're way off. I grew up in the Ozark mountains catching and picking up copperheads and cotton mouths and scorpions, but I'd never invite one to dance with me. But as strange as it is, or maybe because of it's strangeness, it sure seems that their faith can "move mountains" and that it is like "little children".

One thing's for sure, they got themselves some mighty happy feet. Y'all catch some of those dance moves?!

Where do you think Elvis Presly got his moves and style from?

Jnorm888

« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 02:52:22 PM by jnorm888 »

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"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

From a modern sociological perspective, it's easy to denounce the pentecostal snakehandlers as crazy. Of course, doctrinally speaking, they're way off. I grew up in the Ozark mountains catching and picking up copperheads and cotton mouths and scorpions, but I'd never invite one to dance with me. But as strange as it is, or maybe because of it's strangeness, it sure seems that their faith can "move mountains" and that it is like "little children".

One thing's for sure, they got themselves some mighty happy feet. Y'all catch some of those dance moves?!

Where do you think Elvis Presly got his moves and style from?

Jnorm888

Don't I know it!

Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America." ~Scots-Irish saying

One thing I find disturbing about the Jesus Camp video is this very scary, domineering sort of woman with short, mannish hair, and no sort of femininity about her. I was taught that Christian women are to be quiet, feminine and not to preach like this. It seems to go against the teachings of the Bible, just like these female Episcopalian "bishops" with their short hair and usurping of male roles seem to be flaunting the teachings of the Scriptures. Secondly, it seems to be all about whipping up these children into an emotional frenzy. If the woman is modest and humble and is teaching children, that is one thing. But this woman seems the complete opposite of that. I'm afraid it's creating very bad role models for the children. And that's not even beginning to address the issues of mixing church and state and all the other twisted theology that is being taught at this camp.

Possibly,f it keeps children from doing drugs, getting into trouble, immorality etc. then maybe it has some redeeming factors. Maybe.

From a modern sociological perspective, it's easy to denounce the pentecostal snakehandlers as crazy. Of course, doctrinally speaking, they're way off. I grew up in the Ozark mountains catching and picking up copperheads and cotton mouths and scorpions, but I'd never invite one to dance with me. But as strange as it is, or maybe because of it's strangeness, it sure seems that their faith can "move mountains" and that it is like "little children".

One thing's for sure, they got themselves some mighty happy feet. Y'all catch some of those dance moves?!

Where do you think Elvis Presly got his moves and style from?

Jnorm888

Don't I know it!

I don't know, guys. I am a European. I can't accept the notion of what you two call "happy feet," - it seems like "zombeefying" to me.

(To you, to the fashion you wore to be beautiful, to the fashion you wore to be mine; to your tender words, a little bit artificious as they were; to the little girl you were, to the one you still are; several times to that; to your refusals, to your sorrys, and to your old Prince Charmings - several times to that; to life, to love, to our days and our nights, to the happiness that keeps returning eternally; to the child that is coming, who will resemble us, who will be, at the same time, you, and me..." )

Compare this with waving of the hands and with that angry cropped hair woman Rosehip described, and with the little zombees being prepared in those Charismatics "Jesus camps..."

Wow! I didn't know you moved to Atlanta! That's pretty far from Virginia! I hope everything is well with you. So how did you find out about "Orthodox christianity.net?"

Actually I'm currently in the Savannah area, like my blog said - Atlanta refers to my metropolis, since that's where my new eminence lives.

And actually I registered here a long time ago, and forgot about it, then decided recently to come back.

My bad, when you mentioned "Savannah" on your blog, I thought there was a savannah somewhere in Va or something. Now I understand.

So you have a girlfriend in Ga.........cool! Most of my friends live in Ga and Alabama. I use to visit down that way alot, but haven't been down that way in two years........the price of oil really messed me up......as far as traveling goes.

No no no, "my new eminence" refers to the Metropolitan I'm now under.

If this were my girlfriend, I'd be very worried:

And thanks!

Also, "Jesus Camp" is my favorite documentary, but it is creepy on many levels. Especially when they show them basically indoctrinating the kids to be political activists...oh boy...

« Last Edit: June 21, 2009, 12:40:19 AM by Dismas84 »

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"It is truly difficult for me to say who has done me more good and who has done me more evil in the world: friends or enemies."-- Saint Nikolai Velimirovic

Even if it were not that, I'd be still disgusted and worried, and would react with sarcasm. Maybe there is a bit of personal here, too. As I wrote to this forum before, an acquaintance of mine who used to be a biology student and a deep, original, inquisitive, thinking person, and an Orthodox at that (converted on her own will as a young adult) - became a total zombee after joining a Charismatic group, called "Aguas de Vida," while being in the US Army in the Middle East. Last time I saw her, she was completely brainwashed, it was not possible to even say anything to her. She was shut off of the world around her and immersed in her new world of roaring electric guitars and waving hands.

From a modern sociological perspective, it's easy to denounce the pentecostal snakehandlers as crazy. Of course, doctrinally speaking, they're way off. I grew up in the Ozark mountains catching and picking up copperheads and cotton mouths and scorpions, but I'd never invite one to dance with me. But as strange as it is, or maybe because of it's strangeness, it sure seems that their faith can "move mountains" and that it is like "little children".

One thing's for sure, they got themselves some mighty happy feet. Y'all catch some of those dance moves?!

Where do you think Elvis Presly got his moves and style from?

Jnorm888

Don't I know it!

I don't know, guys. I am a European. I can't accept the notion of what you two call "happy feet," - it seems like "zombeefying" to me.

(To you, to the fashion you wore to be beautiful, to the fashion you wore to be mine; to your tender words, a little bit artificious as they were; to the little girl you were, to the one you still are; several times to that; to your refusals, to your sorrys, and to your old Prince Charmings - several times to that; to life, to love, to our days and our nights, to the happiness that keeps returning eternally; to the child that is coming, who will resemble us, who will be, at the same time, you, and me..." )

Compare this with waving of the hands and with that angry cropped hair woman Rosehip described, and with the little zombees being prepared in those Charismatics "Jesus camps..."

That was a cool video, it seemed like the 1970's.

I didn't know the soviet union allowed singing and dancing and stuff. Thanks for posting the vid.

I wonder what North Korea is like and what they allow and don't allow? I never really knew much of what went on in the old Soviet Union.....of what the culture of the people was really like.

Jnorm888

« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 03:39:22 PM by jnorm888 »

Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

Wow! I didn't know you moved to Atlanta! That's pretty far from Virginia! I hope everything is well with you. So how did you find out about "Orthodox christianity.net?"

Actually I'm currently in the Savannah area, like my blog said - Atlanta refers to my metropolis, since that's where my new eminence lives.

And actually I registered here a long time ago, and forgot about it, then decided recently to come back.

My bad, when you mentioned "Savannah" on your blog, I thought there was a savannah somewhere in Va or something. Now I understand.

So you have a girlfriend in Ga.........cool! Most of my friends live in Ga and Alabama. I use to visit down that way alot, but haven't been down that way in two years........the price of oil really messed me up......as far as traveling goes.

No no no, "my new eminence" refers to the Metropolitan I'm now under.

If this were my girlfriend, I'd be very worried:

And thanks!

Also, "Jesus Camp" is my favorite documentary, but it is creepy on many levels. Especially when they show them basically indoctrinating the kids to be political activists...oh boy...

My bad! I should of known better........lol.

Jnorm888

Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

Even if it were not that, I'd be still disgusted and worried, and would react with sarcasm. Maybe there is a bit of personal here, too. As I wrote to this forum before, an acquaintance of mine who used to be a biology student and a deep, original, inquisitive, thinking person, and an Orthodox at that (converted on her own will as a young adult) - became a total zombee after joining a Charismatic group, called "Aguas de Vida," while being in the US Army in the Middle East. Last time I saw her, she was completely brainwashed, it was not possible to even say anything to her. She was shut off of the world around her and immersed in her new world of roaring electric guitars and waving hands.

Her fixation of the Charismatic movement.......my guess is W.O.F.(word of faith).....but I really don't know.....I only guessed word of faith but to be sure.......I would need an english translation of their material.......and beliefs.

I don't see brainwashing as a bad thing in and of itself......it has it's place and usefulness. And just like most things, it can be used for both good or bad purposes. But her fixation should only last for a time.

Say a few short prayers for her whenever you think about her. If she meets other protestants with different beliefs from that of "Aguas da Vida" then it could go either way.....it could make her more secular or it could help her eventually come back to Orthodoxy.

It's hard to say. But after a few years she may grow bored of this........or at least not be able to feel it anymore. Maybe you can send her a few things about Ukrian Saints through e-mail, but don't give up on her just yet.

From a modern sociological perspective, it's easy to denounce the pentecostal snakehandlers as crazy. Of course, doctrinally speaking, they're way off. I grew up in the Ozark mountains catching and picking up copperheads and cotton mouths and scorpions, but I'd never invite one to dance with me. But as strange as it is, or maybe because of it's strangeness, it sure seems that their faith can "move mountains" and that it is like "little children".

One thing's for sure, they got themselves some mighty happy feet. Y'all catch some of those dance moves?!

Where do you think Elvis Presly got his moves and style from?

Jnorm888

Don't I know it!

I don't know, guys. I am a European. I can't accept the notion of what you two call "happy feet," - it seems like "zombeefying" to me.

(To you, to the fashion you wore to be beautiful, to the fashion you wore to be mine; to your tender words, a little bit artificious as they were; to the little girl you were, to the one you still are; several times to that; to your refusals, to your sorrys, and to your old Prince Charmings - several times to that; to life, to love, to our days and our nights, to the happiness that keeps returning eternally; to the child that is coming, who will resemble us, who will be, at the same time, you, and me..." )

Compare this with waving of the hands and with that angry cropped hair woman Rosehip described, and with the little zombees being prepared in those Charismatics "Jesus camps..."

That was a cool video, it seemed like the 1970's.

I didn't know the soviet union allowed singing and dancing and stuff. Thanks for posting the vid.

I wonder what North Korea is like and what they allow and don't allow? I never really knew much of what went on in the old Soviet Union.....of what the culture of the people was really like.

Jnorm888

Jnorm, thanks, this was indeed a 1970's video (the singer, Joe Dassin, a Frenchman, died in 1980, being only 42 or 43, of a heart attack).

Of course the Soviet Union allowed singing and dancing - do you think we all lived in GULAG or something? Urban intellectuals like my parents had apartments with color TVs, and watched many foreign movies and foreign performers' concerts, etc.

But I did not exactly mean just "singing and dancing" when I wrote about my old European culture - I meant, rather, its peculiar spirituality where the human being with his/her "microcosm" is a huge priority; I just picked this Joe Dassin song, "A Toi" ("To You") almost randomly - I could just as well pick another video where Andrei Voznesenskiy or Bella Akhmadullina recite their poetry, or a trailer of a movie by Bergman or Fellini or Godard... or a page of Hemingway, Salinger, Marquez, Charpentier...

We lived in an ugly, schizophrenic society where our leaders lied to us every single day and hour; and the European (and, broader, Western secular humanist) culture was our refuge, our escape. And to me, it still is, even though I live in a somewhat different society now.

From a modern sociological perspective, it's easy to denounce the pentecostal snakehandlers as crazy. Of course, doctrinally speaking, they're way off. I grew up in the Ozark mountains catching and picking up copperheads and cotton mouths and scorpions, but I'd never invite one to dance with me. But as strange as it is, or maybe because of it's strangeness, it sure seems that their faith can "move mountains" and that it is like "little children".

One thing's for sure, they got themselves some mighty happy feet. Y'all catch some of those dance moves?!

Where do you think Elvis Presly got his moves and style from?

Jnorm888

Don't I know it!

I don't know, guys. I am a European. I can't accept the notion of what you two call "happy feet," - it seems like "zombeefying" to me.

(To you, to the fashion you wore to be beautiful, to the fashion you wore to be mine; to your tender words, a little bit artificious as they were; to the little girl you were, to the one you still are; several times to that; to your refusals, to your sorrys, and to your old Prince Charmings - several times to that; to life, to love, to our days and our nights, to the happiness that keeps returning eternally; to the child that is coming, who will resemble us, who will be, at the same time, you, and me..." )

Compare this with waving of the hands and with that angry cropped hair woman Rosehip described, and with the little zombees being prepared in those Charismatics "Jesus camps..."

That was a cool video, it seemed like the 1970's.

I didn't know the soviet union allowed singing and dancing and stuff. Thanks for posting the vid.

I wonder what North Korea is like and what they allow and don't allow? I never really knew much of what went on in the old Soviet Union.....of what the culture of the people was really like.

Jnorm888

Jnorm, thanks, this was indeed a 1970's video (the singer, Joe Dassin, a Frenchman, died in 1980, being only 42 or 43, of a heart attack).

Of course the Soviet Union allowed singing and dancing - do you think we all lived in GULAG or something? Urban intellectuals like my parents had apartments with color TVs, and watched many foreign movies and foreign performers' concerts, etc.

But I did not exactly mean just "singing and dancing" when I wrote about my old European culture - I meant, rather, its peculiar spirituality where the human being with his/her "microcosm" is a huge priority; I just picked this Joe Dassin song, "A Toi" ("To You") almost randomly - I could just as well pick another video where Andrei Voznesenskiy or Bella Akhmadullina recite their poetry, or a trailer of a movie by Bergman or Fellini or Godard... or a page of Hemingway, Salinger, Marquez, Charpentier...

We lived in an ugly, schizophrenic society where our leaders lied to us every single day and hour; and the European (and, broader, Western secular humanist) culture was our refuge, our escape. And to me, it still is, even though I live in a somewhat different society now.

That I love, and brainwashing of all sorts I hate.

Thanks for your insight about these things, it is really appreciated.

Jnorm888

Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

Well, I must admit that it was very entertaining, very easy to watch. I agreed with many of his points, but feel he intentionally chose feeble representatives of each religion to emphasize his position that religion is simply absurdly ridiculous and hypocritical. I do not think Orthodoxy would move him, quite frankly. I thought his mum was cute and feel if anything, he would perhaps side with ,say, Reformed Judaism or some such-who knows.

Well, I must admit that it was very entertaining, very easy to watch. I agreed with many of his points, but feel he intentionally chose feeble representatives of each religion to emphasize his position that religion is simply absurdly ridiculous and hypocritical. I do not think Orthodoxy would move him, quite frankly. I thought his mum was cute and feel if anything, he would perhaps side with ,say, Reformed Judaism or some such-who knows.

I actually think he holds a lot of "beliefs" in common with Orthodoxy, as far accepting things as a "Mystery" and God being "unknowable", and the way he views spirituality as being more important than "religion" etc....I think he has quite a bit of common ground with Orthodoxy in fact.

I think given an opportunity, with a good theologian, he'd be able to find a lot to agree on. So I don't agree that Orthodoxy wouldn't move him, only that he's never been given the opportunity to dialogue with someone from a faith that didn't have a Fundamentalist attitude. Of course there are plenty or Orthodox Fundamentalists as well, and so I'm sure he could find that to be offensive or off putting, and I certainly think he'd have issues with some of our dogmas......but in reality, at least of all Christian Churches, Orthodoxy is dogmatic about fewer issues than any other traditional Church.

I'm not saying I think he'd become Orthodox or anything like that, only that I think he actually has a lot of things in common with Orthodoxy.....partly because Orthodoxy is big enough for many different points of view and spiritual traditions that speak to different types of people. I know of former Hindus, and one person who is a friend of mine who spent 30 years in Eastern meditation and new age-hinduism type practices, and how he completely wrote off Christianity until faced with Orthodox Christianity's monastic tradition, particularly the Jesus prayer, and saints like Gregory Palamas, which made him take notice and give a second look at Christ. Now he's a catechumen, and while he still has a ways to go, he's on the path. That's what I mean about Orthodoxy being "big enough" for various lines of thought, and I think there certainly is a tradition in Orthodoxy that is sympathetic to Maher's opinions.

Again, I'm not saying by simply having a conversation he'd magically convert, because, well I'm not crazy......but I do think he'd find much to agree with in Orthodoxy....even if he disagreed with the the overall premise and decided he didn't believe it, I still think he'd find much to respect in it, at least more to respect than to not respect. Though of course, I'm sure he'd say, "the costumes must go!"

I also listened to the Commentary on the DVD, and he mentioned that he really enjoyed the discussion with the Catholic astronomer/priest, and said, "I could have lunch with that guy".....which I took to mean, he didn't think he was nuts, and found it refreshing to find a priest that was "dogmatic" about every single thing. I think it's the absolute dogmatic attitude that he finds off putting more than anything.....as he says, "I don't know, and neither do you"....and that really is quite Orthodox in a lot of ways.

Like I said, I don't have any illusions that he'd "convert" just as I would expect someone of another faith to convert, but dialogue and understanding is another thing entirely.

Anyways, glad you finally saw the movie....on a side note, I found the moment when that one dude's hair catches on fire, particularly funny!

PS: just wanted to add, I'm SURE he'd disagree with the dogmas we do have, but still, I think he'd find the position we take on many issues a bit refreshing, especially for what is an ultra-traditional Church.

Oh yes, I agree, the movie was well done and engaging and fun! But I still think Maher would disagree with much of the pomp and show of Orthodoxy etc. You are right, he would agree with Orthodoxy in his opinion that "he just doesn't know" about God-but all the same Orthodoxy was in part responsible for trying to concretely, and often very unlovingly, define the Trinity-which is actually something which in the end, we don't know for sure. But I can still see many aspects at which he would laugh. I still see him as either a Reformed Jew or a Unitarian type, but I could be wrong. It was interesting for me to see his visit to the "Holyland Experience" tacky themepark. Hilarious.

Haven't watched it yet, but it should be a good laugh for people that grew up in Protestant and Catholic environments, I guess.Most of his arguments (the ones I've seen on trailers on heard of) are "too American" for me.

Logged

Though I've walked the valley of the shadow of the death, I've fallen not. Not completely. Not yet.

From a modern sociological perspective, it's easy to denounce the pentecostal snakehandlers as crazy. Of course, doctrinally speaking, they're way off. I grew up in the Ozark mountains catching and picking up copperheads and cotton mouths and scorpions, but I'd never invite one to dance with me. But as strange as it is, or maybe because of it's strangeness, it sure seems that their faith can "move mountains" and that it is like "little children".

One thing's for sure, they got themselves some mighty happy feet. Y'all catch some of those dance moves?!

Where do you think Elvis Presly got his moves and style from?

Jnorm888

Don't I know it!

I don't know, guys. I am a European. I can't accept the notion of what you two call "happy feet," - it seems like "zombeefying" to me.

(To you, to the fashion you wore to be beautiful, to the fashion you wore to be mine; to your tender words, a little bit artificious as they were; to the little girl you were, to the one you still are; several times to that; to your refusals, to your sorrys, and to your old Prince Charmings - several times to that; to life, to love, to our days and our nights, to the happiness that keeps returning eternally; to the child that is coming, who will resemble us, who will be, at the same time, you, and me..." )

Compare this with waving of the hands and with that angry cropped hair woman Rosehip described, and with the little zombees being prepared in those Charismatics "Jesus camps..."

That was a cool video, it seemed like the 1970's.

I didn't know the soviet union allowed singing and dancing and stuff. Thanks for posting the vid.

I wonder what North Korea is like and what they allow and don't allow? I never really knew much of what went on in the old Soviet Union.....of what the culture of the people was really like.

Jnorm888

Jnorm, thanks, this was indeed a 1970's video (the singer, Joe Dassin, a Frenchman, died in 1980, being only 42 or 43, of a heart attack).

Of course the Soviet Union allowed singing and dancing - do you think we all lived in GULAG or something? Urban intellectuals like my parents had apartments with color TVs, and watched many foreign movies and foreign performers' concerts, etc.

But I did not exactly mean just "singing and dancing" when I wrote about my old European culture - I meant, rather, its peculiar spirituality where the human being with his/her "microcosm" is a huge priority; I just picked this Joe Dassin song, "A Toi" ("To You") almost randomly - I could just as well pick another video where Andrei Voznesenskiy or Bella Akhmadullina recite their poetry, or a trailer of a movie by Bergman or Fellini or Godard... or a page of Hemingway, Salinger, Marquez, Charpentier...

We lived in an ugly, schizophrenic society where our leaders lied to us every single day and hour; and the European (and, broader, Western secular humanist) culture was our refuge, our escape. And to me, it still is, even though I live in a somewhat different society now.