I’m hoping to get seller perspective on this. I posted this in a different thread and didn’t get replies. Im trying to decide whether I should keep doing this or stop shopping for new things online (new meaning picking new styles as opposed to buying stuff I bought before, know I like and know I will keep).

"Another return I did was a few pairs of shoes. I bought a few styles with the intention of trying them on and seeing which I like. Mightve kept all if I liked all but I didn’t. Did this twice.

Before reading the forums I thought this was normal and sort of expected when you shop online. Before you order amazon stresses there’s hassle free returns so I assumed they expect people to do this. If I didnt believe that then I wouldn’t have done that.

Now reading the forums I see sellers upset over it. While I understand their side, the way it’s marketed it seems like this behavior is encouraged by online retailers. If I couldn’t return then i’d probably not buy the pairs I ended up keeping.

So what’s the deal on this?"

It is encouraged by online retailers, because they want to draw the customers to their shopping sites. However, it is the sellers, whether that is Amazon or a 3p, that end up paying for you to try them. And this is a forum full of sellers, so I would expect that no one is a fan of the buy, try, return

You answered it. Large companies like it and encourage it because they can afford to do it, have amazing shipping rates and have the volume to not feel it. It’s the small sellers that can’t.
I won’t do this on amazon to any 3p seller, I think that’s a fair compromise.

I agree with you.
I do the same thing.
I just bought 5 gowns online to r u on all will keep one or 2.
That is one of the reasons amazon is so great and hassle free to buy clothes from.
Because if it were not this way…I would just buy it in a store.
But…I do not buy clothing or shoes from 3p sellers…only direct from amazon as I know what a hassle it is for a 3p seller.

This isn’t about what comes around goes around. When you put it in those words you’re implying that people returning are doing something dishonest.
You might feel that way but as I already explained, the retailers create an impression that they expect returns and stress how easy it is to return stuff. So they don’t seem agree with your point of view. And buyers return because retailers send out the message that this is almost encouraged.

So when I read the forums and saw sellers complaining I was surprised. I thought that since the retailers encourage returns (they don’t encourage returns per se, they encourage not being scared to buy things to try since they’re making it seem that returning them isn’t a problem) and sellers, knowing that, still decided to sell clothes and shoes, that they were ok with the returns as well.
Was that not a logical assumption?

I wouldn’t like the returns and that’s why I don’t sell for a living.

Edit
You also can’t compare dog gear and clothes and shoes. Every category has their own issues, clothes and shoes are known to be high returns. Dog gear isn’t. At least in my experience. If it ever becomes I will stop selling on amazon because I’m not ready to deal with returns. I make everything I sell and my volume and variety doesn’t allow for returns. So that’s my reasoning.
I was asking for the reasoning of those that decided to stay in business even though they’re forced to deal with high returns. It has been answered for me.

Thank you. Yes, this is the part I was missing and I now understand. That’s what I was trying to get when I opened this thread. It makes sense now.

Yes, I know they ban buyers for returning too much, as they should. I rarely return and compared to how much I buy it’s a fraction of a %. Just want to be fair and after this thread I won’t return to 3p sellers.

Return for what reason? It’s common sense that defective stuff can be returned, there’s usually a “returns” webpage that explains the policy.
But when each product page says “hassle free returns” that, to me, is implying that I shouldn’t be scared to order, since I can easily return if I don’t like it
But maybe you read it different, I’m explaining my reasoning.

Hi,
As a buyer i believe you are entitled to buy different items and return the ones you don’t need/want. I have 2 daughters that do it for items such as shoes, clothing. I can completely understand. ( They have me to box them up and make sure they get out) My advice is to purchase items such as items that have a very high rate of returns from large retailers. The following are the reasons.
1 They pay a fraction of what a small buyer must pay for their products thus can absorb higher returns.
2 A few bad comments about their service has no effect on on their future ability to get new customers. It has a big impact on small sellers.
3 Shipping cost for small sellers are at least triple or more, than what big operations pay, ie Amazon, Macy, Target, Sears etc would pay about 5.00 to ship a large Box my cost would be 20-25, and the same for return shipping if I must pay for a returned shipping for an item.
4 If the item is worn or used i can no longer sell it as new.
5 If i do get an item returned its not about a lost sale, it actually cost me to have sold that item.
I don’t want or think you should stop buying for all the smaller independent sellers, The honest long time seller works extremely hard doing what they do and deserve your business But at least be aware about how the system works. there are also a lot of buyers who have learned to, “work the system” and by my calculations, they cost us a lot of money and more importantly a lot of valuable time.
In conclusion I still love selling online and have been doing it for about 17 years. I consider myself successful and as a senior citizen it does give me extra income and freedom to sell items from where ever and when ever i want. Through experience i tend to sell items that have very low return rates, and believe me there are plenty of them. and i stay away from high return items, (ie shoes). The way of the future is selling and buying online, so we are both right! to sum it up for myself " I can’t control the wind but i can adjust my sails"
Joe

I understand what you are saying. I just simply disagree that all buyers may think this way, because I don’t. I don’t buy five different shirts and then pick the best one and return the others. Trying a product and returning it is different than going on a shopping spree in which you buy multiple shoes, knowing full well you will only keep one pair.

3P Sellers in apparel category that “hope to stay in business” in lieu of higher returns rates, usually end up having no other choice but to adjust pricing across most inventory to help cover some of the losses incurred as already itemized by previous respondent.

Unfortunately, its the Consumers who end up paying More for that new pair of shoes or dress, Because of those who order the exact same item, same color, 3 different sizes, returning 2 and sometimes all 3?

And yes, even Amazon with their most liberal returns policy Will close a buyers account for excessive returns. But I don’t think that’s the solution either?

Another problem is, Amazon doesn’t really make it too clear to the buyer, when they are ordering from a 3PS and not actually from Amazon?

So, the buyer may often think they are just returning those 4 items directly to mega rich Amazon? Especially on FBA orders that are sent Back to an Amazon FC but are usually not Amazon’s Merch.

Another seller on this thread mentioned the Big Box stores being able to “Absorb” these returns costs better than the 3PS’s, but even Macy’s continues to struggle for Profits and are closing 100 hundred+ stores again Q1 2017. Maybe returns do also affect big boxer’s more than we might think?

Returns most certainly can put smaller sellers on the ropes. At minimum it hinders a small shop who is trying to grow and scale when margins are being eroded.

Ultimately, returns (they run the gamut from "weekend party dress Renter, to those just not coming to terms they no longer wear a size 3 anymore and those who don’t go beyond scannig images and clicking on sizes and ordering.

I appreciate your caring enough to take the time to ask this question from a buyers perspective.

You bring up a lot of good points. So, my question now is, did I misunderstand this entire shopping online for clothes thing?
Let’s forget about 3p sellers, I already realize they can’t handle returns and only accept them because they’re forced.
But good point, Amazon does ban for excessive returning and so do other places and as you said, Macy’s is struggling for profit. So, when it comes to large retailers, do they not encourage thoughtless buying when they say “hassle free returns” or “return anything for any reason for a year” or other stuff like that?
What thoughts come to peoples minds when they see stuff like this?
To mine, it sounds like “feel free to buy things to try on, we realize buying clothes and shoes online sight unseen is tough and most people wouldn’t rIsk it unless they knew they can easily return everything that didn’t fit, didn’t look good or you just didn’t like in person”

Am i wrong with my interpretation?
Even not just online, some physical stores have crazy return policies. Why?

If they didn’t want thoughtless buying, why have these policies?

I think the answer is that they do want thoughtless buying. Most people are too lazy or whatever (this is me for most of my purchases) and just end up keeping all the junk they bought. The return policy gives a sense of protection, people buy a bunch of stuff they don’t need or (my case) 10 different tools to try thinking they can return those they didn’t need and it’s better to buy just in case now than having to go back 10 times in the middle of the project, and then never return.
But, some people do call them on their policies and do return unused stuff and then they get banned. So, this is what leads me to think these policies are there on purpose and it’s to encourage thoughtless buying in hopes that most people won’t bother to return.

It’s not as black and white as some people want to make it seem (retailers being innocent good parties taken for a ride by scammy buyers)

Yes, some categories are high returns and therefore you can’t compare dog gear (low return) and clothes and shoes (as someone above tried).
So, people making a choice to sell clothes or shoes usually know what they’re getting into. And the fact that they choose to stay in that business, returns and all, means that at the end it’s worth it.
But sure, large retailers can much easier absorb the costs.

I am the exception to the rule, older men tend to know what they like. Clothing and shoes become standard to them , T-shirts, Jeans , socks, under ware, shirts, sneakers. i don’t care as much about fashion as i do about fit and comfort. I probably would buy online more. It is very important that all stores get and keep as many customers as they can. that is why they have a very liberal return policy. I would also think that a lot of people do order more than they need and either keep it any way and never return things, The sellers love that. A lot of people have issues packing things up and sending them back, I have no problem packing tings up because I do it all the time selling. Selling things to buyers that they don’t need or don’t fit properly and then don’t send them back, a sellers dream!!! I have been shopping with my wife and daughters at stores, and they could try on 50 items and 20 pairs of shoes and end up buying none because they don’t feel, fit, or look right. It would be a massive undertaking if they did the same amount of “Trying On” shopping online.
But it is still profitable to retailers because clothing and shoes have massive markups. and volume shipping is inexpensive to stores that ship millions of packages.
joe

Amazon or Big Retailers don’t think in same way as we do, there’s absolutely Zero Emotion factored into their Policies, it’s all dollars driven.

Returns policy of 14 or 30 days or 6 mos or even up to a year doesn’t matter. The bulk of our return requests are within Minutes After Opening the Packages, Not 31 or 364 days later.

If the buyer doesn’t request within first 48 hours, most of the time, in my industry anyway, you’re pretty much outta the woods on a return happening.

So the 6 mos or 1 year you mentioned that some big retailers have is really irrelevant and just gives the customer a Psychological confidence in justifying their purchase.

Amazon is always looking 6 mos, 1 yr, 5, 10 yrs down wind. They Want All of the customers for the long haul, whether or not we’re here in 5 or 10 yrs too is irrelevant to them.

They’ve already crunched their numbers and factor in the odds of how many 3PS’s will still be around in 5 or 10? Who’ll be catering to all those orphaned 3PS customers? Damn straight you know who will!

Returns suck, no seller likes them. All we can do is adjust our prices accordingly, factoring in “Total Costs of Sales” which includes % of returns received.

If we get our own numbers right, then we live to fight another day! Those who don’t, don’t.

We must remember, Amazon’s Generous Returns Policy is a part of Amazon’s Overall Future Growth Projections, Not Ours.

We are given some leeway and options when structuring ours - whether or not to pay return postage for a “Found Cheaper Elsewhere” or “No Longer Want/Need” Return Request?

I do not provide PP Return Labels for these types of requests. We issue PP Labels Only when they mark the request; Item Received Damaged/Defective, which isn’t often.

hey, i understand all these points and i won’t return anything to 3p sellers anymore.

i guess my question was more about what the retailers are trying to project by having these policies. am i misunderstanding that their policies and “hassle free returns” all over the selling page (not just on the “returns” page) is like them telling me “don’t be afraid to buy, you can return”?
otherwise, why put it on each selling page? if they didn’t expect or encourage returns for reasons other than defective, why stress hassle free returns everywhere?

another thing, when they see me ordering 2 of the same boots, one size 8, another 8.5, it’s obvious one of them is coming back. if they didn’t want this happening, why let me order?

the way i look at it is that retailers aren’t the innocent victim here. they have these policies because they want to encourage thoughtless buying. they stress how easy it is to return but are banking on the hope that most people are too lazy to return and will end up keeping everything they bought.

also, what’s not right about this (and i don’t return a lot, so i’m not defending myself here) is that they put this message out there because they’re hoping to take advantage of people (people getting a sense of security and buying a bunch of stuff) but when people take their policies literally and return almost everything they buy they get banned.