There have been some changes. Make sure you read through the rules to understand them.

1. Prep = 30 seconds, in a neutral environment apart from the battlefield.

2. Anything that is within the tourney rules is acceptable for your prep time, but keep in mind the time restrainst.

3. If you don't know the rules, read them! The first person to make 7 battle-related posts on Day 1, then complain to me will be flogged....or at least get a PM from me with a " " smilie and a link to the rules. They've been established for weeks. And that thread has been pinned for the past week. There's no excuse for not knowing them.

4. Observers are asked to NOT post in this thread unless it is a question directly related to the battle.

5. Keep anything extraneous in the discussion thread. Please help me keep this battle as efficient as possible.

6. Judges: wait a while to vote. And post your vote, possibly with a (brief) explanation. Don't vote in the poll Observers: Feel free to vote in the poll, but I'd encourage you to wait as well.

7. Help me out with all of this. If something needs edited out, let me know...I can't catch everything.

....

***New Rules***
8. Observers/judges are allowed to ask clarifying questions. Anything that could be considered a for-or-against argument should be kept to themselves however. They can use whatever opinions you want to decide, but they opinions should remain to themselves. Leave the debating to the participants.

9. Non-official posts should NOT happen. If you have to answer a clarifying question from a judge or observer, briefly deal with it in 1 of your 9 posts. Thank you.

Judges: My memory may be a touch foggy, but I think it's Ill, Xmarksthespot, Val, and outtard.

Battle Location: Same as before. A 3-Dimensional mirror maze the size of Africa and with the depth of the moon. Combatants, if they wish, can use the element of surprise and/or confusion to gain the advantage, as the mirrors project dozens of images in any given spot. Or not....either way.

...opening strategies in a minute...

DigiMark007

Blair/Newjak's opening strategy:

............

Blair Wind wrote on Jul 30th, 2006 10:33 AM:
Prep:
30 seconds to play with? Digi told me that its not just shields anymore so prep can be whatever I want.
In the 30 seconds that I have GL makes Juggs grow into a 8 story building:
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/554/juggsgianthl0.jpg
and programs his ring to make 9 more rings all like these:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j175/PhotoMaster_01/dfh.jpg
That should take 15 seconds at most

Shaman and GL then slip into Juggs helmet and then Juggs puts up his forcefield which does not allow anything to get through it (like Thors speed of light flying hammer ) and stay there riding the giant. Shaman makes us purely invisible and we should be ready to rumble.

Battle Begins:
We are invisible from you and once inside Cain's helmet they are safe from telepathy and safe from ANY of your attacks. Giving them plenty of time to perform some other things.

First of all the minute you get to close say a bit longer than a football field you guys get to meet our first surprise.
Juggernaut's momentum stealing shield as demonstrated on Thor(Who can throw his hammer at the Speed of Light):
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3340/jj3lj6.gif
So anybody you send in will be very much slower making a lot easier to get hit by or grabbed by Cain especially when he pulls out this move which by the way those blobs are now the size of Astroids have fun:
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8858/firebx7.jpg

Also last time you said that Cain wasnt able to use kinetic steal? This is what we had written up in response: his shield which in those scans you failed to mention that Cain was depowered before those hits and what you saw was Cain's power returning to him. Now as stated in Cain's bio he has to make a conscious effort to put it up and as shown before many times so it wasn't even up. No matter what you wanna say the scan in his first fight with Thor says it all. It is ALREADY effecting your hammer's MOMENTUM slowing it down. It he says it a at least ten feet away probably more but I'll take the conservative estimate on it. The fact is as well Thor has been stated to throw his hammer at the speed of light so since Cain was able to speak a full paragraph before it touched speaks to just how much Momnetum it lost.So say it however you want your going much slower inside the Shield. (especially since its bigger than a football field)

Thats two surprises before you know what even hit you and the porportional sizes of his attacks would make the attacks that much more powerful. Such as these two different punches, *now just think what a giant version would do*
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/432/secretwarsii0072451rnlj1.jpg
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/6313/punch1ot9.jpg

Plus the man with the greatest durability on your team has been taken out by Ironman. Juggernauts strength&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Ironmans:
http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=radno17zy.jpg
http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=radno22nl.jpg
Physical strength is NOT Surfers strong point
No forcefield on your teams side can handle an 8-10 or more story Juggs punching through it since *gasp* NOTHING CAN STOP THE JUGGERNAUT!!

Shaman for his part has been magically messing with your minds:
Clouding Dust: Pulled from the pouch this is used to dull the opponent's mind.
Daylight Enchantment: A stone pulled from pouch that emits a calming light that can even soothe the Hulk. EVEN THE HULK!
All this leads to you basically becoming and having the mentality of labtomized 2 year olds with the movement capabilities of a 90 year old fat woman then we just get rid of you however we want.
Plus he can then hold you all in a structure of pure order:
battle against Carcass, a disciple of Khaos continues. If the team fails all of reality will be destroyed, but thankfully Alpha Flight kicks all kinds of ass.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight126-16.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight126-17.jpg
Seeing as no one on your team has pure Chaos Im not sure how your getting out of that one, plus by destroyin it he killed himself

GL for his part can do something like this to the other opponents while they are stuck and losing all their speed:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j175/PhotoMaster_01/cvbg.jpg
Obviously he would do it in a focused column at the opposing team.
or he can do this to your now stopped and dulled team:
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcu2000secretfiles1p368nd.jpg
and if by some chance you manage to shoot off some attack (not that it would hurt us since youd have to actually hurt Juggs) GL could create a reflective shield on any attack you pull. Anything you shoot my way would just hit you: http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5420/greenlanternv2175joxerdcppg31om0.jpg
or like this: http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/9026/greenlanternv2175joxerdcppg22am7.jpg
And well I thought this was cool: http://img467.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danielkyleyy6.jpg (thank you Avolon)

Silver Surfer
Taken out by magical force blobs the size of astriods, or Juggernauts physical force. *while stuck in Juggs shield, dulled by mind magic and passified so much more that he would actually welcome the attacks, basically becoming and having the mentality of labtomized 2 year olds with the movement capabilities of a 90 year old fat woman*

Hal Jordan
Taken out by the guy who has surpassed him, multiple constructs like this:http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcu2000secretfiles1p368nd.jpg *while stuck in Juggs shield, dulled by mind magic and passified so much more that he would actually welcome the attacks, basically becoming and having the mentality of labtomized 2 year olds with the movement capabilities of a 90 year old fat woman*

Maxima
Shaman focuses on her individually and lets the surrounding ground continously attack her. Her teke wouldnt help as Leo has already shown himself in his last match. *while stuck in Juggs shield, dulled by mind magic and passified so much more that she would actually welcome the attacks, basically becoming and having the mentality of labtomized 2 year olds with the movement capabilities of a 90 year old fat woman*

Brief Coverage
while stuck in Juggs shield, dulled by mind magic and passified so much more that they would actually welcome the attacks, basically becoming and having the mentality of labtomized 2 year olds with the movement capabilities of a 90 year old fat woman we take out your team effectively from the safety of the pure essence of durability.

DigiMark007

Scoobless

no votes in yet?.... weird.....

TheKahn

Well, it seems that an extra week wasn't enough for BW and Newjack to work all the mistakes out of their plan and by all accounts the number of errors seem to have increased.

To begin with, this absurd notion of increasing Juggernaut to the size of a 8 story building. Not only would this offer them any tactical advantage whatsoever, but they failed to prove that their team can actually do it. Growing in size in not a part of Juggy's standard power set as we all know and as can be seen in the bio they provided. Take note how they failed to explain how Juggernaut, in this single instance, was able to increase his size and they didn't even attempt to prove that Kyle can recreate those circumstances. They merely tossed out a scan of a giant Juggernaut and hoped no one would ask any questions.

What they failed to mention: that scan was TRION JUGGERNAUT! He was actually possessd by evil aspects of the Trion who are insanely powerful in their own realms -- beyond skyfather level and in their own realm beyond Cyttorak. That is why they could override Cyttorak's shield. More importantly, this was NOT a case of simple matter manipulation and the scan in no way supports the idea that it is possible to matter manipulate Juggs! -- unless Kyle can create godlike spirits and a realm in which their powers are magnified and who are capable of possessing Juggs and increasing Jugg's power exponentially..... now they will say -- 'look at the scan -- Juggs can be made to be that big so kyle can do it!' UNIQUE AND SINGULAR SITUATION THAT KYLE COULD NOT DUPLICATE. BW and Newjack's attempt to sneak in that feat which they clearly knew was not applicable is just poor form. The end result is that Juggernaut will stay his normal size and thanks to his lack of flight, (which they failed to grant him) he is a non-factor in this fight.

Next up (and this one is enough to make you bang you head against a brick wall), in an attempt to prove Kyle's ring can make copies of itself they use a scan where he just tells Jade how he made adjustments to his ring back when he was ION . What the hell is that? It doesn't show him making copies or even saying he could. They do know that people will actually look at the scans they post and not just take their word for it, don't they?

Following that in the line of poorly thought out ideas, is their "hide our entire team behind a giant Juggy's force field and helmet." Now we have already explained how the whole "giant Juggy" tactic isn't going to work, but there is more incompetence to point out here. First they seem not to realize that because their entire team behind Jugg's shield for the whole fight . . . how can they attack us!? They have never shown that anyone, including Juggernaut, can attack an opponent when his shield is up. Are we supposed to just ASSUME the shield blocks all attacks but let's any attack get OUT?? Why would we, or anyone, assume that? So any attack Kyle or Shaman use would be blocked by the same shield that is hiding them!!

Then there is the fact they actually expect Juggs to be able to hit anyone on our team. Not only is he grounded by he lacks anywhere near the speed to land a single blow. Force globes?? Cripes, gl and ss have flown at lightspeed through asteroid fields, but they can't dodge these weird globes?? Hell, juggs has a hard enough time with Spiderman for pete's sake. And keep in mind that the SS and Max were ACTIVELY scanning their team since the fight started (see prep) and would be able to see their team turn invisible. And it will take far more than simple invisibility to hide their team from scans from GL rings and Cosmic Awareness.

The Surfer alone could detect them. He can listen to the sound of a meteorite a thousand lightyears away
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Incredible_Hulk_415-02.jpg
Or listen the whisper of a butterfly's wing a galaxy away
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/MCP-069-27.jpg
And then there is his Spectroscopic Vision...
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_037-02.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_037-03.jpg
Or he can just sense their life forces
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/MCP-069-32.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/X-men_Unlimited_13-23.jpg

Next is the tripe about Juggernaut's shield being able to steal the momentum from our characters. The only feat in his decades long history they could find to even remotely suggest such a thing is possible is one where Juggernaut's magically generated shield was able to stop a magically empowered weapon. Nothing more. They can't provide one scan where the shields drain the kinetic energy from an actual opponent because, to be honest, he doesn't have that power. Please, are we morons to believe this? so anyone who runs, walks or flies close to juggs just . . . stops??
Seriously, anyone with even moderate comicbook knowledge will see that such a claim is the worst kind of nonsense . . . i beg them to show, just one time, a scan showing that a flying, walking or running opponent, an actual real PERSON, had their momentum 'stolen' by juggs. PLEASE, ONE SCAN!! I'M BEGGING YOU!!

And obviously SS's durability (not that Juggernaut could ever land a blow on him), is beyond reproach. They show one low feat (and not even an instance where ss is beaten PHYSICALLY!! Iron Man stole some of SS's energy and attacked him with it, that's how he scored a k.o. that ALSO knocked out Iron Man!) and think what -- that it eliminates all the other ones?? C'mon guys I thought you were better than that . . . we could show DOZENS of scans of high end durability feats for SS -- flyig through black holes, stars, laughing at planetfalls, surving planetary destruction, etc . . . -- but i trust our judges KNOW how ridiculously durable the Surfer is . . .

Now as for any of Shaman's spells, I look to Blair Wind's own words:
"Now I'll bet the GL rings can handle the magic, but Surfer has had a small flaw when it comes to high end magic"

Every member of our team has a GL ring so according to BW Shaman can't do a thing to any of them Thanks!
Not that Shaman, like Juggernaut, has anywhere near the speed necessary to hit any member of our team anyway. And just to pour some salt into the wound, Shaman actually never used this strange clouding dust against Headlok. He was GOING to use it but he never did! (see prep scan) Frankly, we have NO IDEA what the dust might have done to Headlok. They are using an attack that has never been used in a book to the best of my knowledge, and trying to tell everyone what it MIGHT have been able to do ...

They really seem to have a tendency to see an inch and try to STEAL 1000 miles... making a lot of unsupported inferences. Not great strategy in a debate, imo.

And their one mobile character? He and his constructs are stuck behind Juggy's shield making him usless as well! doh

Now for something compeletly different...

Now we would like to present the judges with why our team can easily defeat the other team even if some of their wild and unsuported claims are believed. This is actually quite easy for us as the other team has for some reason severly limited their mobility by tying it to the Juggernaut's shield. even if by some MIRACLE the momentum thing is accepted by, say, 1/1000 readers who know juggs. WHAT MAKES THEM THINK WE NEED TO BE WITHIN A FOOTBALL FIELD TO ATTACK THEM?? Anything we do, we can do from a distance and we can do it REALLY fast. And bear in mind: Shaman, Kyle, and Juggy will all be in debilitating pain thanks to our sonic/light attack. There is no reason to suppose the shield would save Kyle or Shaman in particular, from sensory attacks. So with that, from a safe distance, we could:

*have SS transmute the air the inside of Juggy's shield into hydrochloric acid killing the unshielded Shaman instantly.

*following that, we have SS encase juggs in a massive, skin/shield-tight adamantium sphere after which Hal would reinforce the whole structure with a Constrictor. as can be seen in the scan, the constrictor prevents teleporting (or Hal would have ported out) and the admantium would keep juggs immobile for YEARS! They can't port out, Huggs can't walk out for years. We win -- easily! Oh, and if you think the size of juggs is an issue, we could just as easily increase our OWN sizes THEN proceed with our distance attacks . . .

Once again their plan is a shambles. If they stay with it, they are trapped in adamantium and an inescapeable constrictor. If they decide to change everything, our initial plan deals with them. Anyway you look, they are once again screwed . . .

newjak86

All I can do is laugh at your post Khan.

I just want to point out that basically all you did was try and say all of our scans are worthless but I thought that was the point of scans was to show what we are trying to say is true.

The giant Juggs scan was to show he can grow in size by outside forces. Try and manipulate it all you want you can't deny that in the end Cain was by far larger than what he once was so he can grow in size.

Secondly you complain about his shield which in his decades of powers uses it rarely in battles so a one time use of it to slow the momentum of it should tell that it can. Now your trying to tell me that if Juggs shield could slow down Mjoilner a thrown object traveling through the air that it won't be able to to do the same thing simply because someone is flying seems to me your reaching for straws. Let me ask you something Khan since when is force from a object traveling at the speed of light different from the speed of a human its simple science Khan it isn't.

So your slow and the point of the Globs is they are huge in size for all your guys speed your people aren't exactly unhittable by slow people Iron Man has hit Surfer so has Rhino Hal can be hit as well so to say hundreds of gigantic Blobs aren't going to slow you down or be able to hit you fast is just being ludacrious. Which also neutralizes your illusions as Cain doesn't even need to know where you are to have to hit you thats the greatness of an area effect attack.

Next your plans on trying to take Shaman out is useless this isn't Magneto, shaman's sheilds can be skin tight and so can Kyle. As for the adamantium cocoon Kyle can just as easily stop it from happening and as for the fact that you said we can't teleport out well your basing it on the idea that Hal never tried to teleport out not that he couldn't he never says he couldn't he simply doesn't try a poor man's effort there Khan so a couple of wash out attacks down.

Secondly let me ask you something you claim that since Shaman never used his Clouding Dust that it wouldn't work since when has Shaman ever attempted to use something that wouldn't work that is like saying SS was about to blast something but since he didn't then obviously he can't blast stuff faulty logic.

As for Nimrod well I'll let Marvel itslef speak on it:
http://www.marveldirectory.com/indi.../juggernaut.htm
For those who don't want to read through the page here it is:
Nimrod, a robot from the future of an alternate Earth, successfully attacked the Juggernaut's mind and nervous system with advanced weaponry producing tight-beam high-frequency sound waves and a synapse dislocate that jammed his neural impulses. However, had the Juggernaut used his force field, he would have proved invulnerable even to these futuristic weapons.
It speaks for itself it wasn't simple sonics it was actually a very specfic attack used to attack the nervous system while SS and Hal may be able to reproduce it they would not now how to recreate it they wouldn't know about it to do it since they don't know what was used or the event in question. Secondly Marvel even corrects the comic itself by saying that if his sheild was up it wouldn't work well guess what it is up. So guess what another poor attmept trying to use bad writing that was even shown by Marvel to be bad writing.
Still though I ask what would an attack on the nervous system do to someone who when depowered at the time can still walk without muscles:
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/5476/mystic1ls9.jpg

Now that basically everything you just said was blown out of the water let me tell you exactly what is going to happen here.

Basically you are gonna try and attack using what you think will beat us but after or before since you won't even have the time to do this you've got nothing that big attempt was worthless after that Shaman is going to mind rape you with magic turning you into Labotmized 2 year olds with the speed movements of a 90 old woman.

You have changed your appereance and that is somehow supposed to help? You wasted time doing nothing because we didnt specifically attack you, we stopped you ALL.

You have nothing show us otherwise your best attempt was trying to quote something BW said which by the way was false(it was for one specific attack, NOT a mind rape like we are suggesting). I'm calling you out on it you have nothing to protect against magic nothing at all I know you can't provide any scans of it so basicilly you have no defence against it except for trying to say something we said basically to be nice that is sad at every definition of the word.
I know what your thinking how is Shaman going to do this when he won't be able to see us well he doesn't need to see you to actually effect you with his spells as shown it isn't that he has to know where you are but that your there and since we already know who we're fighting that isn't a problem:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/...ight1220gy4.jpg

Secondly Juggs attacks are going to hit you his shield is going to effect you and once again you have nothing against it besides trying to play word games but hey nice try.

Recap

Judges: all they did was try to play word games with our scans while trying to say all this tough stuff which doesn't even take into account everything we can do or Kyle could back. Its typical we're going to try and BS your stuff while trying to make big noasts that don't work.

Basically we have two advanatges they can not over come:

A) Magic they have no defence for it they have nothing to go against it and we have it in spades so their biggest weakness is one of our biggest strengths. Basically they have no way to deal with this and they know it

B) Durability basically we have the most durable guy in the tourny and two guys both of whom have very strong sheilds you aren't taking us down easily which sucks for you because we can.

Their two big advantges though we have already counters.
A) Speed
B)Illusion/constructs

Which is beaten by Jugg's Momnetum halting Shields and area wide attack that doesn't allow you to get close and doesn't need to actually know where your at.

Which is also beaten by Shaman because he Magic Mindrapes you so bad your drooling all over yourselves. And you can't hide from his spells has already shown.

Basically that was a waste of a post and we still beat you sorry and to tell you the truth with the exception of maybe one thing from Kyle we only need two people to beat guys that is sad.

leonidas

leonidas

newjak86

About Giant Juggs yes Cain's mind was present how do you think they stopped Juggernaut they got Cain to retake control secondly if he wasn't able to be Matter Maniped then how would he grow in size.

Next I'll ask you about all these so called hundreds of instances of Cain using his sheild wait there isn't sorry buddy but that is a big old lie. He barely has evered used that sheild and the fact still remains he did use it to stop the Hammers momentum even though he did it once I do have a scan of him doing it that is all you need Leo. Unless you want me to start to question all of these things you've been doing where you you only have one instance on it and in fact have never been able to do some of these things. For instance giving Hal Superman like powers or Silver Surfer a ring I mean how many times has Hal Duplicated a ring????

Once again with the Globs a power he has used once but I still have a scan of him doing so he was able to do it once he can surely do it again if he wanted right I mean at least I have a scan for it all these things your doing seem to be doing things you think your characters can do like SS making Adamantium do you have a scan of him doing it. For all the claims you say we are making your team seems to be the one that is taking the liberty of doing a ton of things without scans or loosely putting them together seems to me if Judges should be questioning anyones attacks here they should be questioning yours not ours Leo.

Now the Globs have grown great in size I wonder if Cyclops could dodge something that was more than 8 times his size same thing for SS.

About growing in size you guys seem to think you guys could pull it off easily enough how many things are you going to do in the first few minutes of the battle? Geeze youd think you had like a million years of prep or something Anyway making yourselves bigger doesn't help you all that means is your bigger and thus easier to get hit by Juggs.

About Nimrod it wasn't Ultra sonics the site itself tells you it was a high frequency attack from the future desgined to specificy attack the nervous system the fact is SS won't know the frequency to use since he doesn't know the event in question to scan it you have nothing.

Also on the fact that Marvel itself went into his bio to correct the mistake should tell you that they thought is such bad writing they were willing to make a reference to it. Now we all know how much bad writing takes place over the years for Marvel to go in and correct speaks alot of just how bad they thought it was.

Now as for me calling out PIS and CIS well yes I am because honestly you think people would take someone trying to use Spiderman vs Firelord if they were debating for Spiderman no.

Basically what was said about Hal not being able to teleport out of that thing that since he didn't try it then he obviously can't do it even though he never mentions not being able to teleport out of it. That is PIS Leo face it unless it specificly says he wasn't able to teleport out of it then I guess we can't assume.

Now back to Juggs shield and your double standard you seem to think that we can't attack out of it but that you can attack us in it seems like your trying to reach for straws there either nothing comes in or out you can't have it both ways Leo. Besides we're using it as a speed stealer shield so its not like you can't touch us but the same goes for us we can as well.

Now as for you turning the inside of the helmet to acid well as stated before Kyle simply turns it back to air simple as that as Shman erects a skin tight forcefield. Or something even better which BW will touch on

I'm also calling into question you being to do this miles away while SS could possibly do it I want you to show me this. Not like Shaman won't be able to take your whole team out as I've already shown he can do it for miles and was shown that it can you on the other hand simply are saying it not real good evidence right Leo.

This one I actually decided to post Leo because it is one of the few things in your post that was worth actually quoting

Still though it was easily answered same as before Magic my friend you guys have all this power but for all of it you have no defence for Magic none what so ever. They may have great minds still magic how can it effect you behind your shields magic we have defences for it you don't. Like I said we have it in spades and only need two people to beat you really. While Kyle keeps Shaman safe easily enough.

This was the only other one worth qouting

Basically you can still get to my helemt your just a lot slower in trying to do so is all plus Kyle and Shaman would probably stop you from doing it even if you did get close to it.

Now as for the rest basically more just tough talk and trying to use something we said on completely different attacks. that is basically all you've given for your defence against magic alot of nothing is what. All this tough talk and Words Games but still no proof as to the fact you have anything to counter it.

For the Judges
They keep talking about our outragious claims and how we have shown nothing to back it up but we have shown a lot more concrete proof then they have. They want to talk about bogus claims and us not being able to do what we say well I think the fact is we have shown that we have done exactly what we claim.

SO they keep spouting off about all this stuff not being true when the truth is they are ones making alot of unsupportive claims. They are the ones with outragious claims with little to no evidence as to how they are going to beat us.

Basically they have no defence for our Attacks on their mind they know it so they are trying to use the words outragious and unsupported on us as much as possible to take attention on that fact well I'm not letting that happen.

Or better yet here is what Leo/Khan are saying:
"Damn he did it in a scan, but it still isnt so!!!"

Seriously, common. TELL us why you WOULDNT be near us? How in the freakin HELL would you know you CANT come near us. PFFFFFFFT leo just because you know the strategy doesnt mean the characters do themselves Just because you dont LIKE the shield doesnt mean its not there. Keep your head in the sand if you want ostrich boy

Thank you have a good day

batdude123

Very nice battle so far, gentlemen.

illadelph12

Wow...

Validus

Originally posted by batdude123
Very nice battle so far, gentlemen.
I haven't read a bit but I'll take your word for it.

batdude123

Originally posted by Validus
I haven't read a bit but I'll take your word for it.

DigiMark007

Opened the poll

TheKahn

newjak86

OK then I will take this first part to apologize for the Nimrod incident. BW and I before we post anything send eachother our posts and then we go over them redediting them about 3-4 times cutting out different words at the time to streamline and make things look better. Now it easy going through to see a word and take it out without fully reading everything around. I can gaurentee though on my word that there was no attempt at trying to hide anything or purposely trying to fabricate the quote. I will take the blame though for not realizing the mistake when I posted it though. That one is my fault.

No back to the shields Khan your being a bit arrogant in all this talk aren't you. If you read our first post and the scan we are using the scan of him using the Momentum Halting aspect of his sheild. You can try to reword it six ways to Sunday but the truth is in the image. Juggs talks about the Shields momentum stealing aspect of it, and the Hammer touches him apparntly he can control how the shield is used unless seeing isn't believing anymore?????

Still though say people don't take cold hard facts anymore and for some reason happen to agree with you if we can't attack out then what makes you think you can attak in. It isn't a double standard here Khan either nothing gets through or some things can and we still can attack either you choose to aknowledge one part or the other. You can't have it both ways it just doesn't work that way sorry Leo/Khan but you can't have your cake and eat to. Basically if you want to have it your way here is how that works out

I don't think they'll be able to affect the air inside Juggs forcefield either to be honest. Those Cytorrak shields are pretty sturdy. They don't let things in or out (which is why Dr. Strange always invokes the power of Cytorrak to trap someone in the Crimson Bands). It repels Godblasts. Meaning if you get what you want you aren't attacking us inside it as long as it is up.

Now back onto this constricter all you proved is that it had no weaknesses so therefore Hal couldn't break a big difference between breaking something an teleporting away from it.

Next on your supposed SS magic immunty scans all you did was show he could out muscle a few magic weilders and take some good blasts. A number of characters can say the same Superman being one of them even though he has a weakness to maigc. Now the difference in those scan is we are casting magic spells effecting you directly not launching magic beams at you. So once again so us something better than that actually.
Still despite that laughing stock of scans you say makes SS immune to magic you also failed to post any for your other team memebers your not looking so good right now Leo/Khan.

Also as BW has already stated Shaman is as safe as anyone on this field can be.

Now on to Juggernaut's only "tree busting" Globs well apprantly that isn't all his long range attacks can harm. Let's see how about sending a being that was threating the reality of Earth and who was basically owning Strange without having to lift a finger and was discribed as allpowerful in his realm
http://img414.imageshack.us/img414/5061/drstrange1821415vy0.jpg
But hey hey if you think your guys can take them head by all means do so.

Oh by the way like I said for all your guys supposed speed they are still very hitable I mean Loki has hit Surfer, Hal has been hit, Maxima has been hit by slow people. You guys aren't dodging hundreds og Giant Globs without completely focusing on it not leaving anyother time for you to do. So yeah let me see your guys dodging tons of things flying straight at them without being hit once then I could consider believing you somewhat.

Now on to Giant Juggs again man you guys are stubborn and don't people hopefully see through this simple ploy like everything else. Juggs has been shown to grow insize now Kyle can do it but once again just to show you guys that it doesn't matter even if it is true Shaman can just as easily do it as well. His magic is quite formidable and has tangled and messed with Skyfather level beings before so I assume that he could do the same as well. Face it just becuase you think Kyle may not be able to do it doesn't mean we can't. I mean honestly a lot of what we say about Shaman or Kyle can infact be used interchangebly between the two nice try though but even though Kyle can do it shaman can do it just as easily if we need.

For all this open time you guys think you have by doing a million things after the start of fight you seem to think you guys are gonna be the ones getting the first blow in. Once again you guys seem to think you have all the time on the world well you don't basically you have time to maybe get one attack off before Shaman completely destroys you guys.

The best part you are trying to tell us you know our plan better than us but in reality you are the ones that seem to forget everything they've done try and hide while doing sixty different things at once then your going to attack us before we can do the same even though we have done only a few things after prep and Shaman was convently free during all this to Mindrape you guys all before your even finished doing half of what you guys have tried to say.

Honestly you are trying to tell everyone here we have but a few moments before it is all over when in fact you are ones that have very little time to do anything.

Judges
All they've done again is try to claim things that we have already proved by scans while they are the ones with the least amount of evidence. They are ones with no real defence for our attacks.

Even with all this obvious false sayings they still have to create more to try and beat us. They are making things up about us trying to say they can do things but we can't do the same things. This double standard strategy is quite easily shown by the shield.

First the false claim trying to compeletly blow off every fact we've shown with on panel proof by saying that it can't do what we want it despite it being there for everyone to see.
Now the Double standard they created with this. They say they can attack us in the shield but we can't attak them with similar attacks. Thats the double standard they are trying to use to beat us when in fact anyone can see that it is a stupid claim. Even though we all know if we can't attack out then they wouldn't be able to attack us on the inside

Oh besides Khan/Leo you say we have changed eveything we've said but basically we pretty much said the same thing from the very begining. We have a giant Juggs shooting out high powered Globs(by the hundreds) at you while Shaman Magic Mindrapes pretty easily hey if anyone has changed their plan the most it was you guys.

Now everyone I know it seems like we have been purely on the defence in these posts but that is only because the other team hasn't really offered a good enough rebuttal to our attacks to really need us to go over their posts and attack to much its that simple. So until they actually offer something more than a bunch of unproven claims I'm content on just telling everyone where they are doing the things they are accusing us on.

Face it Leo/Khan you haven't offered one actuall bit of actuall proof to give us problems just a bunch of heresay that is worthless and easily shown as such.

Like you said I was actually expecting a better battle from you guys but all I've gotten is a piss poor effort from you guys. Basically lieing, trying to argue stuff that has already been proven with pretty much little room for error and then trying to create double standards that have no factual basis because you know you have nothing else.

Accel

Kahn- 2
leo- 2
Blair- 0
newjak- 3

Blair Wind

Wow...spelled backwards....is wow. You guys are great. No really you are. I bow down to your obvious lack of contradiction.....you guys have it sooo planned out dont you? I mean from the very opening post you stated that your going to be monitoring us and then decide to attack us right? Your gonna be faaaaar away. Here let me refresh your memory as to what you said: (and this is of course after your 1 hour double prep strategies you had going on right?......)

Wait Im sorry.....you did what? you teleported next to the one person you cant move away from? The same guy who, funnily enough uses a shield powered by Cytorrak...hmm doesnt Dr. Strange use that same shield with the Crimson Bands? Your gonna effect us how? Your trapped and have no way of getting out

hmmm wait a minute I swear I read you guys say that you would be FAR away from us so that Juggernaut couldnt catch you in a shield.....damn man I must have missed where you got away from us.

People they committed their players to teleporting next to us, now they have to deal with it.
And Leo actually had the balls to tell newjak that one thing he mentioned wasn't in his pm statement when that's exactly what Kahn and leo are doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But THAT of course was after all their prepping/strategy statements right??? I could understand if it was the old rule of 15 minutes of prep, but Digimark007 cut it down to 30 seconds specifically to limit the kind of crap leo/Kahn are trying to pull off. Not to mention, they seem to continue even more with their prepping strategy even into the beginning of the battle!!! What do they expect us to do? Just sit and wait there for them to be done with them prepping each other? I mean Hal changing himself into a Kryptonian, sundipping himself, making him immune to k-nite/red sun radiation, making these opaque shields, making rings for everybody, etc. etc. What the f*ck!!?? They spend all that time and we MAGICALLY MIND RAPE them. Simple as that!

We on the other hand are TOTALLY shielded with Juggs. Nothing you have can harm us. Once in his shield Kyle can do a few things (this is all while your doing your one hour prep plan. The magic mind raping should coincide with your hal enhancing).
(A) He can give Shaman 10 rings and let the ring download instantly the information on how to use them basically
He has been shown to feel people's emotions, as well as been shown to project what a person sees or feels into another person's mind. He has been shown to telepathically link his mind to his daughter from deep space battling the Infinity War, while his daughter was on Earth. Also since his powers partly depend on faith and willpower he could therefore use them as well. He can as well give one to Juggernaut (a man who spent ten years digging himself free thats some willpower man).

(B) Give Juggs some earplugs and some sunglasses to block out any sensory attacks (which by the way after Nimrod did his HIGHLY FUTURISTIC, HIGHLY FOCUSED beam he got straight up with no harm). *PLUS he did not have his regular helmet but his skull cap nor did he have his forcefield on.* and a rocket pack to fly.
and

(C) he can pre program his ring to teleport them the picosecond juggs lowers his forcefield, while at the same time doing this (with shield lowered): http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/8405/greenlanternv2175joxerdcppg30tr7.jpg
That ladies and gentlemen would be a singularity (think black hole.....without the hole) (Juggs of course would just walk in the other direction and nothing could stop him) while at the same time surrounding the enemy in some unknown pyschoplasmic energy shields:
http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=glonemillion153wm.jpg
and a whole team cant get past those (that includes an evil superman and a evil GL)
http://img419.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hrjlaearth20538vf.jpg
Which could how you say....constrict you? Push inwards and make you implode?
and right before teleporting Shaman magically mind rapes them letting them be passive AND seeing their phobias* (making them extremely passive while at the same time afraid). How can this attack work while in Cytorraks shield? Its a rock that gives out a MAGICAL light and works on the mind and as stated made the hulk with all his anger passive as a baby. Being magical in nature it would prove to be nigh impossible for your team to overcome. Sorry but you just got magically mind cleansed (and all this just while you were STILL creating a hal kryptonian.....damn sorry good plan to bad it didnt fall through *Phobias would come when the shield drops*

While juggs lowers the shield for them he continually blasts with his energy/magical blobs thus meaning you have three different distractions, all something that you cannot avoid and the moment they are gone Juggs raises his shields again. You were being sucked by Kyles singularity and trapped in a shield that a GL-type ring or Superman enraged could not find a way out of while being constricted, made as passive as a two year old while dealing with your fears, and had to deal with pesky huge magical blobs. You wouldnt have a moments notice (or even know) that Juggs shield have been lowered. It would raise up again, and again you would be caught like a fly in a spiders web.

Now my favorite part. Kyle has shown to make rings. However the ONE ring which comes back to the owner ALWAYS (no matter what *getting taken off, teleportation, ect ect.) is guess whos? Well dammit its NOT Hals....its Kyles. And while your stuck in a shield trying to come up with some way to get out, we teleport the rings away from your guys (meaning well Hal just became a normal human.....damn)

The shield has a speed stealing ability to it. It also wont let any attacks happen to us, and well wont let us offensively hurt you now will it.........oh wait your already mind wiped

Nonono and FREAKIN NO. Get it through your heads people. That SPECIFIC attack wouldnt have mattered to a GL in the way it was being used. It was a low level trick (stopping *people* from flying. Not a GL ring) However MAGICALY MIND F*CKING you is goin to get noticed, and since right after that you wont HAVE a ring well......thats too bad.

I thought you were smarter than this? We show a scan of it being done *and hell to an object that when swung goes at the speed of freakin LIGHT* and you cant accept it? So basically your sticking your head in the sand and just "NO! It cant be true!!!" Pathetic. It really is

someone named Dr. Strange disagrees with you

So BASICALLY what has been done is that (as newjak will explain) either Shaman (by magically supplying him with more power) or Kyle (through the use of ten rings) can make Juggernaut grow.

From then we
(1) trap them into a speed stealing shield they willingly walked into
(2) Make Shaman and Juggs more powerful (without fifty million different HIGH END effects needed) *which by the way doesnt surfer get exhausted quickly?*
(3) Teleport off all rings while blasting them with Juggs own Cytorrak induced magical bubbles, mind raping them, and having them go at a singularity while again stuck in another impenetrable shield (which unlike Hal he didnt try to find a "weak" spot in the forcefield itself but a way out. Teleportation could therefore be considered an unusable technique)
(4) Pick them off with Magical attacks (remember your passive while scared at the same time) via Shaman *and you have YET shown how you could deal with a prison of PURE order:
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight126-16.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight126-17.jpg
(battle against Carcass, a disciple of Khaos continues. If the team fails all of reality will be destroyed, but thankfully Alpha Flight kicks all kinds of ass. Seeing as no one on your team has pure Chaos Im not sure how your getting out of that one, plus by destroying it he killed himself )
also any magical energy that he gives out he could quite simply make incompatible with the members of your team. Basically? You just blow up. Magically
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight18-14.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight18-15.jpg
and Kyle can attack from the outside via his ten rings, plus Shamans rings as well...which would provide any protection from there so called matter manipulation. Once stuck in the shield they would not be able to get away from Juggs, be INCREDIBLY slowed down, would not be able to offensively due ANYTHING to our team (since they ARE in one of Cytorraks shields....which Dr. Strange seems to think are pretty damn powerful since he uses them all the time) while Juggs can SIMPLY walk up to them and physically abuse them.

Judges thank you for your time, and its good to know that now YOU know all the contradictions the other team has in there plans. Blair Wind has spoken

batdude123

herbwank

outarddwarf

Originally posted by batdude123
herbwank Please keep stuff like this out of the battle thread.

DigiMark007

Agreed. Althought this week ahd been oddly slow.

I'll leave it as long as needed for the judges to get their votes in, but debating ends Saturday at midnight.

leonidas

leonidas

Blair Wind

One thing that continually made me laugh in your post. Judges, readers, anyone who gives a damn: READ their PM strategy. With all the prep (during the actual BATTLE) they do, do you really think they would be able to monitor us efficiently and just let us have their time?? While they go making all there extravagant plans and expending LOADS of energy we magically mind f*ck them. We never changed our strategy, just improved on it. Juggs would grow, hold you, while we kicked the crap outa you. BUT if you want to continue believing in the "falsehood" of stone cold scans, we can adjust to better fit your screwed up logic. Just for you. Hope you dont complain ......again

Ill take a moment and talk individually about my team members:

Shaman-
You seem to think we are using the clouding dust. Learn to read. We used the PASSIVE spell caused by a magical light that PACIFIED the FREAKIN HULK. Guess what? You have just become the worlds BIGGEST pacifist. Whaaaa? So now because your not a Khaos lord the trick wont work? Way to use logic. Man was kicking all kinds of ass and causing pains to reality. Shaman can do the same things as he did to your team while shielded. Your not coming out of the structure and you were made passive as hell in the very beginning, and once passive you were also seeing your greatest fears thanks to his phobia control
Phobia Manipulation: This attack doesn't attack the body, but the mind bringing forth the person's phobias.(which worked on Diamond Lil)
Also seeing as how Shaman can control all types of energy that he produces, he could in his capacity create a type of "anti" energy or "anti" matter (just energy that is not compatible with any of the ones used in combat or with your physiological makeup *which the ring can determine*) and BOOM! goes the opposing team.

and we all know Surfer doesn't like magic anything right?:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/NorrinBleedin.jpg
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5061639
apparently he had a magical knife that cut Surfer. The Sorcerer stabbed him with it cause he needed cosmic energy for the resurrection of Elder Darkness.
another time something magical has pierced the Surfer:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/SilverSurvershit002.jpg
Also we have the fact that all of Shamans powers are magically induced meaning that they would cut through your defenses like butter.
hmmm and what do we have here? seems he doesn't like it very much when his board gets taken away:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5068240
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5068252
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5068257
and we have also shown Loki do the same thing
(and dont even try with the GL ring excuse because they got TELEPORTED off). Magically or through Kyle either way its gonna happen.

Kyle-

you did that yourself with your own scans. Its common knowledge that Kyles ring is THE best and all rings can duplicate the same feats, and seeing as Kyle was the one who thought about it well, its not that hard to say he can do it. The scan where he "fixed" his ring after being Ion, he did say that it would always come to HIM:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j175/PhotoMaster_01/dfh.jpg
Hals doesn't do the same With our combined 21 (ten each and one for juggs) rings *which Kyle has thought of using before for himself: http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kylewith10rings2by8.jpg (which Hal himself has stated they make you stronger) we can kick all kinds of ass. I mean ROOKIE kyle took on Hal at his BEST as paralax and held his own for a pretty good fight.
Its a good thing MY kyles shield actually has proof that you cant teleport out of it (the ring was trying all sorts of ways of getting out: http://img419.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hrjlaearth20538vf.jpg ), instead of you having hal find a "weak" spot.
And while they are trying to find a way out of his shields (which they cant) kyle can convert all their energy into i dunno.....explosives?:
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla006142wu.jpg
He could also cover himself (and have Shaman do the same) with something like that and any energy they get they absorb and transfer it to more physical power to look like this:
http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenlanternv356071zv.jpg

Juggs-
Newjak will deal with it but what I can say is this: IF making juggs grow wouldn't work, we would change our plan obviously *like you did*

PREP: (with 24 seconds left after trying) we go by making the 21 rings (one for juggs just for its own protection), preprogramming all the rings to shield for them anything coming there way and reflect the attack:http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5420/greenlanternv2175joxerdcppg31om0.jpg ), and fire at anything going past mach 1 (like john did) with about 15 seconds left Kyle converts their genetic structure slightly (him and shaman) to process things at superman speeds and have superman reflexes and durability to match while also giving them telekinesis:
http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenlantern173p027ju.jpg
http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenlantern173p036bq.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenlantern173p048fj.jpg

while at the SAME time Shaman infuses all the rings with raw magical properties making it go through anything you have like butter (as Jade and Alan demonstrate)
http://img452.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenlantern110p177jy.jpg
*and did you know magic GL rings can jam regular ones?:http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j175/PhotoMaster_01/al.jpg
http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=al1ty8.jpg

From there since the "time line" has changed, we move on. The battle commences and your team can monitor all they want, as Kyle simply and easily jams and teleports all your rings off while your busy making Hal look like a Superman barbie doll, expending LOADS of energy into bathing him in yellow sun radiation, and bunch of other crap (which as we ALL know cannot come back to them, unlike Kyles )

Once there all the magical GL energy we have can
(A) Go through any shield you have, while at the same time holding you in ours (Which you cant teleport from and converts all your energy into magical explosions incompatible with your physiological makeup aimed at you. This is by the way is sapping your kinetic energy and using it for other purposes against you:
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla006142wu.jpg) And energy wise? Not even your team can come out of this: *big bang people* http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanv2173pg144bd.jpg
(B) Shaman can make you passive, while facing your greatest fears. Your minds are in such a state that you wouldn't be able to fight us any longer
(C) We can then take surfer away from his board and since hes MAGICALLY mind raped, and seeing his greatest fears while taking it all in passively
(D) Shaman can have the mirrors hold Maxima, while she is MAGICALLY mind f*cked
(E) Considering that Hal has just become a non factor (with no rings) we teleport him to the edge of space and let him die
(F) Once Surfer is grounded and MAGICALLY mind raped and Maxima is held off by magical mirrors that she cant telekinetically stop growing we do two things
1st) We could fast ball special Juggs right at you two. Seeing as nothing can stop the juggernaut, his pure strength and "unstoppability" would crush both of the teammates. As shown PHYSICALLY and MAGICALLY surfer isnt the best in durability:http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=radno17zy.jpg http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=radno22nl.jpg.
2nd) Proceed to destroy you through various constructs and bombs: http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j175/PhotoMaster_01/cvbg.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcu2000secretfiles1p368nd.jpg
(G) Once done doing that we can encase you in the structure of pure order (or this can happen before...either way your f*cked )

Summary
With prep we:
created multiple rings for everyone/infused them with magic
pre programmed the ring to shield and fire at anything coming our way and/or going past mach 1
and enhanced our humans.

During the battle we:
Mind raped them
jammed/teleported all of Hals rings while wrapping them in a non teleporting shield
Sapped kinetic energy while converting it into magical explosions that are incompatible with their physiological makeup thus making them go BOOM!
teleported hal into deep space/magically separated Surfer and the board/had Maxima get run over by mirrors all over the place while still kicking the crap outa the opposing team
Fast ball special Juggernaut at them (and since they are mind raped *passive AND scared they cant do shit)
and encased them in a structure of pure order IF they havent died yet

Judges take note: *IF* making the juggernaut grow proves impossible, we would therefore change tactics slightly. While we are set by battle time, they are still making MASSIVE amounts yellow sun radiation, blocking off red sun, changing DNA, thus expending EXTREME amounts of energy, while all we do is teleport the rings off (which unlike ours do NOT come back to the owner), mind rape, and with our magical GL rings kick the crap out of them. We used less energy then they did, effectively took out one of there characters, and exploited a weakness in all of them (MAGIC)

newjak86

I would like to further clarify on what is happening right now in this match.

We have in no way changed our strategy or plans we have stuck to exactly what we are doing. What we have been doing though is we've been showing that even if you agree with them with what we can do that none that really helps on these matters as it all leads to to the same ends.

I will go over everything they've thrown at us and show you how none of it helps and where they are beaten and what they've done different..

First the Shield: I will use Leo's quote:

This is a lie to the tenth degree. We put the shield up but even in our first post we started discussed the speed stealing aspects of our shield. Nothing new added we even showed a scan of what we were talking about.

Secondly he is right with the logic that if nothing comes in then nothing comes out idea except he never used that logic on himself he constantly made replies that our guys could not attack out of the shield but they could still attack us in which is a double standard. Face it Leo either nothing comes in or out or something comes in or out you can't have it both ways. Either way is fine with us because we still win.

Now about that scan Leo of Thor dodging Cain you do realize that is the same comic where Cain discusses the speed stealing aspect of his sheild right??? I like that one you are gonna try and use that as evidence when a few panels later he uses the same ability you to wanted to prove as false that is funny Leo.

Judges
So basically either you except our notion of the Speed stealing part we talked about. On the other hand you can expect their nothing can come out or come in idea which also means they have to wait for us to drop the shield before they can do anything which doesn't help their cause because if we do drop it it will be when we have Shaman doing his attack which means they are done for anyways. Thanks Leo.

For the Giant Juggs:

We have shown a scan of Juggs being able to get larger. What we said is that Kyle should be able to do it which we still believe they can. Now they said it would take a large mystical force to do such a thing. Shaman is a very powerful Magic User who has been able to use his magic on very powerful beings. He would just as easily be able to do it. Once again proving their point is mute. Now if you don't believe we could we already addressed that issue as well by simply doing the same thing just behind GL and maybe a magic shield or two which by the way is alot easier than the ton of powers they are trying to give themselves.

On BW changing our plan:

He never changed our plan he filled in the gap on what Kyle would be doing during this. Everything I had Shaman and Juggs doing was the same. The only difference is now Kyle is added on to show that while we could beat them solely with two people that now we have a third that is absolutly destroying them with his own powers. Nothing changed they still loose.

Now onto the fact that the Globs are more serious then they are taking:

I've already shown how Juggs attacks have effected a very powerful being. About it being a dream world Lwo also failed to mention that Strange and Juggernaut were both their in physical bodies so they were in fact taking on a physical being in his own realm and Jugg's attack both in shrinking and blasting them had great effect. So the idea they are gonna sit there and try taking on Hundreds of Gigantic Blobs of Sheer Magic Energy thats fine with us.

Now onto them saying we have done a lot of back tracking when they've done the most:

As Leo said they have extended their prep but the problem is they are not using very simple attacks or powers here they are duplicating rings and giving themsleves more super powers and Sundipping, etc etc. None of that is simple to do and fast to do even in their own scans these things aren't instant.
We aren't waiting for them even while Kyle his doing his things Shaman is still doing his. Mind raping them making them Passive like his spell did with the hulk or his Phobia Powder(Mind Clouding Powder). Like they said Shaman never did use that powder even though Shaman has never been going to use soething unless it works but hey like we said he can still use his Phobia Powder to do the same thing. So now instead of Clam retarded people you are passive scared people(Think a kid cowering in the corner). Take your pick they both do the same for us.

Onward to their in battle plan. They are the ones who have changed it around alot. At first they were simply doing all this million and one things of prep than teleporting close to us trying to attack us.

As soon as we talked about Giant Juggs and a spead stealing shield then they went onto talking about trying to attak us inside our shields when we couldn't attack out. When they offered no proof that it was true what they were saying about them being able to do something we couldn't they switched to a we are gonna lurk around and wait for the shield to drop idea. Which didn't help because they realized that they couldn't escape our magical attacks when or if we had to drop them.

They went into a we are going to attack you from miles away idea. Then we corrected them by telling distance Doesn't matter for Shaman's attacks. They then went into a we are gonna scan you from the begining plan to show that they are somehow gonna try and get the first attack but by doing so they also don't realize that they would have to drop half of their new found prep powers just like that and it still doesn't help because Shaman is basically MindRaping them from the begining and they are gonna need alot more and have even stated they will need a lot more than one attack to beat us.

Now they are trying to rely on their GL rings for everything to get them through which doesn't help them at all as BW has already shown they will get teleported off anyways another moot point that they have no defence for.

RECAP
It seems to me they have been the ones changing everything they've been doing and none of it has helped them at all even when they have tried argueng rediculus points.

In the end this match comes down to their resistance to Shaman's attack of which they have done a lousy job of doing.
The best they have done is try to say the GL rings will protect them and show SS taking and breaking Magic objects like Blasts and shields. As already pointed out superman has done similar things but he isn't immune to magic these attacks would still work on him. Heck we have even shown where magical objects have effected Silver Surfer because they were solely magic. The GL ring defence relies on something we said pertaining to a different spell and we even stated in the original post that we felt that these attacks would still be effective in our opening post so in no way did we believe that they are immune to these attacks.

Other than that they have shown nothing to help them out. The best they mustered was for SS(Which were still terrible) and they didn't even try to post anything for their other two people. This just tells you we win.

Basically they think they are getting a trillion attacks off on all of us and this is after the thousand years of prep they are doing compared to the very few attacks we have to do
Seems a little I don't know one sided if you ask me basically they only way they have a chance of winning is if we wait for them to do everything they want.

TheKahn

I can understand how BW is a little confused and uninformed about what Leo and I are doing in the debate as he has waited until the round is nearly over to post at all. That being the case, I would like to clear a few things up.

First, once the fight starts ALL the Surfer will be doing is monitoring their team and producing some yellow sunlight which is hardly a taxing activity for Galactus' most powerful herald. However, he isn't alone as from our opening post you can see that Maxima is joining him in scanning the other team. As for their sad contention that they will "mind rape" us, I can only laugh. The Surfer has resisted mental manipulation from Moon Dragon with the mind gem, Maxima is one of the most powerful telepaths in DC, and our entire team is protected by Green Lantern rings. To top it off, they are claiming that some dust that was never used and some calming light (more on this later) will be enough to override all of our defenses.... Much like the rest of their "strategy" this claim is poorly supported and rather ridiculous.

And here we see how Hal has to lower his shield to allow Hector Hammond to access his memories telepathically (remember this is a protection our entire team has)
http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitledscanned178jd.jpg

And trying to use telepathy on Hal is a bad idea
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl176_18.jpg

And for Maxima's tp feats please refer back to Leo's scans of her in the first round.

Now on to each of their characters:

Shaman
Unarguably the biggest mistake BW and Newjak made in this round was sealing Kyle and Shaman inside of Juggernaut's helmet and behind his shield. This in effect not only prevents them from launching any type of conventional or telepathic attack (as it would be blocked by both the helmet and shield) but also from even being able to see our team. Thus even if Shaman wanted to launch an attack at our team he couldn't even see what he as aiming at. Now they've generally ignored this problem the entire debate as they obviously don't have a solution for it.

We can see this with their "passive light" attack. Thus trapped behind Juggy's helmet the light would never reach our team and would only effect their own character (Kyle) who is trapped with Shaman. Besides the effects of this "attack" are laughable. It calmed down the Hulk....and that is suppose to cripple our team? Being calm? No one on our team depends on an unconrolable rage to be effective in a fight and being calm would only help them stay focused.
Between that and Juggy's "tree destroying" globs our team is in big trouble

The phobia attack is likewise futile. Again it would be blocked by Juggy's shield (which has proven very good at blocking magic attacks). Not only that but our GL defenses can easily handle this attemtp at mental manipulation. Hell Blair Wind has already stated in the first "round 6" that Green Lanterns are practicaly immune to Shaman's magic:

"Now I'll bet the GL rings can handle the magic, but SS has had a small flaw when it comes to high end magic"

Now he has backed off this statement by claiming that the GL rings can only block some magic but would be affected by other. And of course he has generiously voluenteered to judge for every which attacks it could and could not block. Sorry but it doesn't work that way. By his own admission a GL (like our entire team) can handle Shaman's magic and he can't take that back no matter how much he realizes it hurts him. And as for his contention that our GL rings are going to be teleported off, I guess he should have spent the week at least reading the debate even though he didn't participate. In our opening post you can see how Hal preprogrammed the rings he created to bond themselves permanently to the Surfer, Maxima, and himself. Sorry but they are not coming off.

Shaman is stuck behind Juggy's shield and hemet meaning none of his attacks can reach our team and even if they could, BW has admitted that Shaman's magic will not affect our team of Green Lanterns.

Kyle

I see they still can't understand the concept of proof. They can't find a single scan to show that Kyle is actually able to use his ring to create more GL rings. If you will remember in the first "round 6" they actually used scans of Kyle using HAL'S RING to make copies as proof Kyle could do it. In fact those scans came from a story line (GL #100 I think) where Kyle meets a time displaced Hal. Before Hal leaves he gives Kyle a copy of his ring that can create more copies so that Kyle can recreate the GL Corps (thus showing that Kyle's ring lacks the ability). All they would need is a single scan of him making a ring to prove their point but they can't even find that.

Like Shaman, they've foolishly trapped Kyle behind Juggy's shield and helmet meaning that he is basically useless in this fight. And even if he was not, a sundipped Kryptonian Hal with miltiple rings is far more than a match for Kyle.

Juggernaut

They are still stuck on the idea that either Kyle or Shaman can duplicate SKYFATHER level magic despite there being absolutely no proof of this. Hell they don't even seem to realize that with the limits of this tourney, skyfather level magic would be banned even if they could prove one of their character could duplicate it.

--------------------

Notice how they expect Juggy and Shaman to be instantly able to use GL rings? I guess they don't realize that that is not how the rings work now. As Leo showed even Green Arrow who is very familiar with the rings and how they work was barley able to make one construct and it took damn near everything he had. That is why we shared not only Hal's memeories and training with the GL ring but also the parts of his personality that give him such a strong will with our team. We actually took the time to think of how to make such a tactic successfully work. They did not.

As for their new prep plan, we can see just how desperite they've become. Waiting until the last day of the tourney in a vain hope that the judges will ignore the flaws and mistakes they made with their first one and that we won't have enough time to point them out in the new one.

Most of what they are trying to do has either already been proven impossible or is merely pointless conjecture. Any changes to Shaman or Kyle is useless as they are still trapped behind Juggy's shield and helmet (unless they've seen just what a GIANT mistake that is and want to change it now) and we took care of their little "teleporting the rings off" tactic from the start of the round. It really wasn't that hard to predict that attack, we just expected BW not to wait so long to actually try to debate. Our team still outmatches them in terms of speed, strength, offensive firepower, telepathic attacks, and versatility.

So now Shaman's powers work exactly like Alan Scott's while a few posts ago Shaman were exactly like a Skyfather being from the Marvel Universe??? doh The hardest part of debating this team hasn't been discrediting the conjecture they try to pass off as a plan or even dealing with the "misquotes" that popped up, but it has been trying to make sense of their ever changing and inconsistant arguments. They want to change not only what their characters are doing by what power levels/sets they have. Shaman and Alan are not interchangable and have only superficial similarities in their powers.

And aparrently Alan smashing a giant wood ant Hal made with a rock (not an energy construct mind you but an actual wood ant) means to BW that Alain can easily cut through any GL shield/defenses I'm sometimes amazed by their "logic" or lack thereof. I beg you judges, please actually look at their scans rarely do they actually show what they are claiming.

Their Plan
They are sadly dependant on flawed ideas to get them though this round and if that wasn't bad enough they've crippled their two most versatile characters by placing them inside of Juggy's helmet and shield.

*They can't prove Juggernaut's shield can freeze someone in place (even after it supposedly stole the momentum from Thor's hammer, Mjolnir still returned to him and Thor himself has punch the shield and NOT be stuck in place)

*They can't prove what Shaman's dust will do as it has never been used before, and they can't prove he or Kyle can attack from INSIDE of Juggy's shield and helmet.

*The can't prove our team will ever get anywhere near Juggy's shield thanks to our monitoring, GL scans, and Cosmic Awarness. This means we can encase them in a Constrictor and Adamantium and thus win the fight.

Now BW has tried to save his team in the eleventh hour but it is too little and far too late. Their tactics are ineffective and actually serve to handicap their own team more than threaten ours. And I'm afraid any energy attack would be useless against our ENTIRE team. Hal (and thus the Surfer and Maxima) can easily shrink down any energy attack or produce anit-energy:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/674266c2.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/db4679d5.jpg

Blair Wind

Here a few scans showing what Kyle can do (who sandman has said will surpass Hal. That time has come don't you think?): http://img467.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danielkyleyy6.jpg

Now with ten rings on him and Shaman, and all of them enhanced by raw magic (which hmmmm it seems is a handicap your team has) and pre programmed to shield and fire on anything going faster than mach 1 (as John did) would kick the crap out of your team *considering that UNLIKE Kyles Ion enhanced ring, your rings don't come back once teleported)
Kyle Rayner vs. Traitor, a being who's blast was capable of destroying planets (and as shown made a whole solar system light up) and could easily defeat 2 Green Lanterns as this battle ends up destroying asteroids and planets (possibly one of the best battle. Realize how Traitor mentions that ONLY Kyle Rayner has faced him in full might that not even Hal Jordan or Abin Sur was able to face him in)
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legendsofthedcu38p051oh.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legendsofthedcu38p066rp.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legendsofthedcu38p076rp.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legendsofthedcu38p083vl.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legendsofthedcu38p091fy.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image= legendsofthedcu38p118dj.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legendsofthedcu38p126ul.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legendsofthedcu38p137pg.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image= legendsofthedcu38p141yz.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legendsofthedcu38p159eq.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legendsofthedcu38p167jx.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image= legendsofthedcu38p178bz.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legendsofthedcu38p187lr.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legendsofthedcu38p193cq.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image= legendsofthedcu38p202ie.jpg

vs the members of the White Martians Hyperclan (who all have high end durability)
http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla003095ip.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla003104xc.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla004101ih.jpg

Vs Amazo 2000. The version of the Amazo had the powers of nearly every superhero on Earth. The JSA, JLA, Marvel family, Strange Visitor, Firestorm, etc.
http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image= dcu2000secretfiles1p336gb.jpg
http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcu2000secretfiles1p348nw.jpg
http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcu2000secretfiles1p359ov.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image= dcu2000secretfiles1p368nd.jpg
http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcu2000secretfiles1p370nr.jpg

These fights should prove to anyone that without a doubt, we have become EVEN MORE powerful with our magic GL rings and have the tactical advantage in that area. You have to remember that all these fights where against resistant foes, but seeing as Shaman can easily pacify them (as he has done to the hulk) AND let them see there phobias, they would be in NO state to retaliate against our magically enhanced Oan team. While juggs can be used as the proverbial cartoon anvil, and has the one ring to shield him with its auto shields from light and sound based attacks. Also lets take a look at your OWN scans: http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image= greenlantern031117jr.jpg
what is the FIRST thing people do with the rings? They fly?? Juggs just got the ability to fly

Our forcefields surrounding you can constrict you, not letting you teleport, and unless you have the power of the big bang and a supernova you cant break free, and all your efforts to get out turn into magical explosives, sapping all your energy (kinetic and otherwise), and can absorb all your energy. We can also make the energy magically incompatible with your physical makeup or the energy your throwing out (a type of anti-all energy) thus making you magically explode

I also love the fact that you keep mentioning that Shaman never used a certain magic. Do you read what I write? Your right he never used the CLOUDING dust. He did PACIFY the hulk. As in he no longer wanted to fight. That in and off itself will be ruins your team. All these things can be supplied by the magic running in the GL rings. We arnt equating it to Alans magic just proving that magic can be infused in a ring. About the the teleporting. You may have "permanatly" attached it to the finger, but as shown by Jack T. Chance the same thing happened and Lobo STILL got the ring from him. Teleportation is also not a "physical" act and with the added magic this tactic would work. Others have also proven the same thing. Once you prove that MAGICALLY (which Surfer IS vulnerable to which we have shown) we CANT mind f*ck you you MAY have something to go by. Until then our magically enchanced GL rings kick your butt. Are you seriously going to argue that one gl ring cant duplicate and another can when Kyle has THE BEST RING EVER MADE? I thought you two were supposed to be......good. If anything Kyle has more duplication feats than Hal.

Learn to use logic, stop playing words games and above all stop ignoring facts we have already presented

As newjak says: Yeah you guys may be the Cosmic Caballeros but we have your magic tequila right here

TheKahn

I really did expect more out of you guys. All you've really done is string together conjecture and the feats of characters not on your team in a plan that is fundamentally flawed. Kyle and Shaman are still trapped behind Juggy's shield and helmet (unless you guys finally realize what a mistake this is and want to change it now). Any of your "attacks" and I do use the term loosely will be blocked by both the helmet and your own shield.

Here is just a small list of the "attacks" that are suppose to take down our team of highly trained and expierenced Green Lanterns:

*energy globs that can blow up a tree and can be dodged by Cyclops

*a magic dust that was never used and they haven't proven it could mind rape a gerbil much less a GL Silver Surfer, GL Maxima, and or Hal

*a "calming light" that only calmed down the Hulk. Not only will this attack not reach our team thanks to Juggy's helmet and it's effects be blocked by our GL rings, but even if it was able to affect us it would only serve to help our team stay calm and focused.

*Juggernaut's shield that was suppose to freeze us in place even though they can't provide a single scan of it doing that. Even the scans where it "steals the momentum" of Thor's hammer, Mjolnir still returns to Thor's hand and Thor later strikes the same shield without being stuck.

Not to mention their clearly false claims:

*Kyle can duplicate the magic of a Skyfather being to make Juggernaut grow

*Next it was Shaman who could duplicate the magic of a Skyfather level being.

*that Juggernaut or Shaman could use a GL ring. When we used this tactic (I wonder where they got the idea) we laid out a logical method by which Hal's memories, expierence, training, and aspects of his personality that give him such a strong will would be passed on to our other team members. They have done no such thing. Currently, only people with extremely strong wills can use a ring unlike in pre-Crisis DC.

*That Kyle can create copies of his ring. If that is so they would have post a scan of him doing that by now. In fact in the first "round 6" they actually tried to pass off scans of Kyle using Hal's ring to create copies as "proof" Kyle's ring could do it. We called them on that before the match ended which is why they didn't use them here. All they could find in this round was a scan of Kyle talking about re-programing his ring as ION as proof he can currently make extra rings.

The scans that they origionally used are from Green Lantern #100 on where Kyle meets a time displaced Hal Jordan who gives Kyle a copy of his ring so that Kyle could rebuild the Corps (as Kyle's ring can't make copies). If Kyle's ring could make copies he wouldn't have needed Hal's to rebuild the Corps. Kyle never had a "standard" Gl ring after all.

*That Shaman can imbue the rings with magic In the scan they show as "proof" all we see is that Jade uses her ring to focus Alan's Starheart energy. That's it. Shaman's and Alan's powers work complelety differently and the two are not interchangable. More to the point the scan they used to once again "prove" that Alan can easily tear through a GL's shields/constructs is garbage. Alan used a rock to crush a giant wooden ant Hal created (not an energy construct as it had to be wood to affect Alan). Even though Blair Wind has already admitted that Shaman's magic wouldn't affect our team of GLs.

"Now I'll bet the GL rings can handle the magic, but SS has had a small flaw when it comes to high end magic" - Blair Wind

In fact BW was on to something. Not only does Hal not have a weakness to magic but it takes Dr. Strange/Fate level magic or higher to destroy his shields/constructs.
In this scan a prision that wasn't even designed to stop magic but created by Hal to imprision Ultraman, took the combined effort of Dr. Fate and Starman to break out. In fact you can see Alan say his power ring is useless against Hal's construct!
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/Justice_League_of_America_207-09.jpg

*Their little (mis) quote of the Marveldirectory.com article about Juggernaut and their claim that Marveldirectory.com is run by Marvel Comics. We had to disprove both of these claims and all they had as an answer for these flat out lies was that they accidently edited them. Please, that is crap and everybody knows it. A mistake would have been leaving out a word or sentence, what they did was RE-WRITE A SENTENCE IN ORDER FOR IT TO SAY WHAT THEY THOUGHT WOULD HELP THEM. This team has a bad habit of making claims that the facts simply don't back up.

---------------------------

As for BW's last post, none of his scans have anything to do with the issues in this debate. All he did was show that Kyle was a top tier Green Lantern. Good job. We all already knew that and no one was arguing the opposite. The problem with you team (well at least on of the many problems) hasn't been your team's abilities but the way you two have misused and squandered them.

Anyway if we are just going to post battle scans of our characters then so be it.

Hal tears through the GL Corps, taking down his former comrades left and right, including the incredibly skilled and incredible strong Kilowog.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/ddaffddd.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/3eeba43e.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/3cce790d.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/029e0c6c.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/95d8fcbe.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/da7cdbed.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/eb424aaa.jpg

Hal takes the ring from Kyle, and proceeds to use the ring to take on the entire JLA and defeat them readily.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/a46a7e79.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/73655e8c.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/45b338c3.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/f2e10a70.jpg

Hal puts down Mongul with one monster hit even through he had a shattered shoulder and knee. Mongul later went on to take Superman and Kyle on at the same time.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/b662ec0c.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/7bd5fcaa.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/efcbd6ea.jpg

Marty, just an aspect of Hal's personality, defeats the entire Justice League using tactics the original Hal Jordan had created long ago, then teleports away.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/1f32a478.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/db444e7b.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/0c899a70.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/fc994039.jpg
(Here we see that Hal is able to easily pull out the fears out of beings as strong willed and powerful as Superman)
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/e311da70.jpg

Superman brings Hal to the Fortress of Solitude to test the limits of his Emerald Energies and finds that his power defies quantification.
The real gold here, however, is Hal's reaction to Superman's discovery. A shrug of the shoulders and an easy smile, in the self assured manner of one who is at peace with himself.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/Justice_League_of_America_189-14.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/Justice_League_of_America_189-15.jpg

Hal Jordan confronts the frighteningly powerful (Along with insane) Lord Malvolio of the Green Flame. He has no weakness to yellow and Hal still has his, he has no time limit, he has virtually no limits. The entire planet, was just a construction of his ring, his will power. Hal is punched through a planet, feels nothing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Action633-04.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Action634-04.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Action634-05.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Action634-06.jpg

Keep in mind that ALL of our characters have these GL abilities as well as the memories of doing them in addition to their own power sets.

newjak86

Once again to all this we are gonna go stand around scanning while doing a million things did you forget to mention the huge task you placed on Hal/SS for this time didn't think so.

Secondly on your TP and willpower resistance means nothing to our attacks as this isn't standard TP it is a magic spell big difference. About Mind gem arguement do I even have to mention that Dr. Strange alone has used magic to help him overcome many of the Infinity Gems before right nice example it actually helps our cause because Magic&gt;then whatever you've posted.

They keep saying we trapped them but they aren't. I mean they think they are attacking us inside the helmet just fine but that we can't do the same good example friends of another Double Standard your placing on us. I've already told and shown a scan where Shaman doesn't even need to see to effect you with his magic so basically all you said above useless.

Next your still clinging to something we said without proving any of it yourself thats nice. So basically what your saying is we've got nothing so we are going to keep using this one phrase to try and hide that fact. really good debating boys.
Next you have alot of defences but do anything of them actually block Magic Spells. I remember you once told us we couldn't block teleportation without proving it well I think its your time now. Prove that your shields can block Magic because I doubt it.
And your permantly bonding those rings well I like to see how your doing that since even Hal hasn't been bonded to his ring. I mean you can say it doesn't make it true that it. No GL has ever done that why are we going to take your word you can do it now ; )
face it his powders are effecting you making you passive while seeing your worst fears turning you into kids crouched in a corner.

You gave us the proof when you showed Kyle doing just that. Now your saying that since it was Hal's ring he can't do it but let me ask you something since when ever has a GL ability to perform feats been linked to which ring he has?? Basically what you just said is if any Rookie GL puts on Hal's ring he can instantly do any feat Hal has ever done thats real smart. Plus with all the energy your using to your gonna get exhausted quick

another said attempt it isn't a new plan it is showing what Kyle is doing for us and some of it is if we can't get Juggs to get Big just to show you it doesn't matter.

And they could teleport out when they wanted to we drop the shield when we want to attack they arn't trapped Shaman can still use his magic inside the helemet they haven't shown why we can't. (since it is a sensory item in nature)

The hardest part of deabting you guys hasn't been debating you it has been trying to keep the Judges on the fact you have no defence for our attacks as you guys keep posting nonsense to try and keep that fact down.

Its a sad day when me and BW have posted scans showing everything we say we are doing and they keep putting there heads in the sand saying no it can't be true no it can't be true. Plus we even showed they don't have to come close to us

We didn't handicap our team they basically gave us the advantage of we get to choose when the battle starts as they said if nothing can come in then nothing can come out and trust me all Shaman as to do is say done and Juggs puts the shield down and the Mindrape commences and they know they've got nothing is the sad thing despite all these things they can do they know they still can't beat us easily but we can.

Go ahead face it guys you have done nothing in this match to even begin to disprove you guys can take our attacks and then put us down before we put you guys down.
Basically there best arguement is we can't attack but its as simple as dropping the shields then teleporting out. we've never changed our plans they are the same if you can tell me how we've changed it instead of saying it maybe someone would believe as it is we've shown where you've changed everything you've said over and over but where we haven't.

Validus

Post Count

Kahn- 4
Leo- 4
Blair- 3
Newjak- 5

leonidas

a few things not to lose sight of:

1. our battle prep took about 10 seconds -- all the while we monitored them to see what they would do.

2. they have never proved that kyle's ring CAN make duplicates. if it's THAT easy, why doesn't EVERYONE have one? don't you think the corps and guardians would LIKE to have all it's members have rings that are NOT flawed by parallax . . .? kyle with his NEW ring has NOT made duplicates. they can ask, "why WOULDN'T it be able to?" all they like. kyle's ring IS special, it IS different, and because it IS different, there is no guarantee AT ALL that it can duplicate itself. if, as they claim, he has 'so many duplicating feats', it shouldn't be a problem at all to show kyle with his new ring duplicating it. right . . .?

3. yet again they make a ludicrous, unsupportable claim. first they claim shaman is a skyfather and can manipulate juggs. NOW they say his power is equivalent to the STARHEART!! because nothing short of THAT UBER-magical source has tampered with the ring.

nj: "well, if a near-omnipotent entity can manipulate juggs, shaman can too."

bw: "well, if a monumentally powerful magic source like the starheart (all the gathered magic of a universe!) can give sentinel magic gl power, then sure shaman can do it."

please tell me it's not just me scratching my head at these arguments they are bringing up. SHAMAN has the power to tamper with a ring?? if it were THAT easy, i'd think neron, or faust or any other high level magic-user might have done the same. and what exactly does shaman DO to it? he just . . . makes it magic . . .? wtf? oh, and by the way . . . WHEN does shaman make the rings magic, and just how LONG does that take . . .? you seem to think shaman just needs to LOOK at them or something. if it's POSSIBLE, it probably would take him a LOOOOONNNNNGGGGGGG time to even BEGIN to understand the rings enough to tamper with them!!

4. pacifying rock/phobia thingy: (please note -- AGAIN no scans to support the effects of these attacks. poor, poor debating skills. less words, more pictures. your teams credibility already sucks, so taking your word for things is NOT an option. SHOW ME WHAT THESE ATTACKS CAN DO!!) anyway, ss IS a pacifist and like max and hal, he is protected by gl shields, pc shield and TELEPATHIC shield -- for the first 10 seconds. max is one of the most POWERFUL telepaths in the UNIVERSE. you think you can muck with her mind and get through her shield to . . . pacify us? c'mon, even YOU can't believe that, especially in light of the fact that gl shields CAN withstand direct magic attack from dr fate (a LEGITIMATE strange-level character) AND ss's OWN power has withstood both loki AND OVERCOME mephisto -- in his own REALM! and that was BEFORE he has a ring. as for phobias -- ss has defeated a FEAR-EATER (see scan below), hal makes of LIVING of dealing with a conquering 'fear', and max has her TP protection AND hal's memories and will to draw on + her own gl shield! not to mention all the OTHER shields that are surrounding her and the others!

here, a creature that LIVES on fear by causing it, is REJECTED by the ss:

http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=feareaterog7.jpg

no, i don't think you're 'pacifying' anyone, and the oldest trick in the book 'calling on people's fears -- like EVERYONE hasn't tried THAT one . . . ) isn't working either. our shields are reinforced by the wills of TWO gls AND the power cosmic AND one of the most powerful TPs in the dc universe. you don't do jack until we decide to come out . . .

5. more rings does NOT equate to more power. ask validus if you don't beileve us. and anyway, HAL HAS 10 as well. so kyle is just gonna overcome the shields, overcome hal's OWN will and port the rings away? even though we were SPECICALLY ordering ss's and max's rings (who are VERY experienced gls) NOT to allow any ring energy into the shield?

you guys certainly seem to think getting past all those shields is an easy thing to do for some reason . . .

oops, maybe they KNOW they can't do jack. and once AGAIN bw comes to our rescue!! thanks again bw, the cheque is in the mail . . .

to do all the nonsense they claim they are going to do, they are relying on SHAMAN to make the rings all . . . MAGICAL!!

if anyone buys the fact that SHAMAN has the power to tamper with a ring, i'm in the wrong forum . . .

that means all the nonsense they were talking does NOT happen if they don't have some ridiculous "magical lantern energy". they do NOT have 'magical lantern energy.

6. if you need another reason NOT to vote for them, consider the fact that they try to deceive you at every step. bw's scan of ss being impaled by mephisto was more than a little misleading. that was ss's SOUL, not the REAL ss. and even his SOUL was fine. it is the very next page and is STILL ss's soul battling mephisto. . .

http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=soulsu6.jpg

the fact that he AGAIN stood toe-to-toe with mephisto is testament to the ss's resistance to magic. once again, a tip 'o the cap to bw . . .

7. saying we use loads of energy to do our prep is a LOAD of bs . . . do the rings grow tired like the surfer does . . .?

dammit i am getting TIRED of correcting you and bw's errors/lies. NO IT WAS NOT THE SAME ISSUE. the hammer scan is thor 411. MY scans are the rematch in #429!!

10. the reason we have NOT been (seemingly) using all our characters is simply -- the first part of the debate revolved around them being behind juggs shield the whole time. we countered by moving away, encasing them and winning. now that they have stopped hiding, they ineffectually attack our shields for 5 seconds or so, we teleport out, disguised and end things. who CARES if anyone thinks juggs can fly. ss eliminates him -- INSTANTLY. or encases him. NO ONE WILL BUY THAT JUGGS CAN WIELD A RING!! not of course that you PROVED KYLE CAN MAKE COPIES! juggs is out, and it is 3-2 in less than a second into the fight. shaman -- who has never been shielded, finds himself against max (who uses her ring to create a devive to AMPLIFY her tp powers!!) and shows him what a TRUE MIND RAPING is . . . even if for some inexplicable reason, some belives without evidence that kyle CAN make copies, a second after the fight starts shaman is double teamed by max AND ss. they end that QUICKLY, then kyle is against all 3 of us.

leonidas

Blair Wind

please do me a favor you two and instead of skimming through what we write READ. I mean seriously, do you enjoy IGNORING said facts and going backwards into a debate while again providing no real evidence of.....ANYTHING?

We have repeatadly stated:

(a) we are NOT using Clouding dust. Get that through your thick silver loving asses and realize that. Please stop referencing it. Its pathetic that you two continue to ignore that fact

(b)
Shaman gets a mind dump and Juggernaut gets autoshields. Whats so hard to explain? So waitaminute your saying Pre Crisis feats are crap and shouldnt be allowed? So half your posts worth of scans are effectively useless as hell. Choose one or the other smarty pants.

(c) We are NOT "stuck" in juggs shields. I think we dealt with that already but of course as per usual in this match you have yet to actually READ anything we say. Arrogance will only get you so far. Please stop insulting us by not reading what we have to say or you will only repeat countered statements that hold no worthwhile value. Or maybe you just like the sound that the keyboard makes when you type and you really don't have anything else to say? We cannot attack you while in the shields, but as refrenced by Dr. Strange using shields that ALSO derive from Cytorrak NEITHER CAN YOU. But we have already countered anything that you have to say about the matter have already set up our offensives

(d) Alan DUMPED his magic into jades ring. Please understand the scan before you criticize it.

(e) one of my fav: When the HELL did I state that? Dude your supposed to be smart. Prove it and read the damn scan INSTEAD of looking at the pretty pictures. I said and hell Hal said Alans magic ring can JAM the ring.

(f) KYLES DONE IT MORE THAN HAL. Dude are you going to stick the illogical argument that Kyles ring cannot create rings. Absurd and I thought I was supposed to be getting a debate not denial. Stop whining and post something worthwhile.

(g) As we have ALREADY stated, Shaman can infuse magic into the rings (its not about Alans magic dammit, its about the GL ring being able to infuse it.) With raw magical abilities from some far out dimension hidden in his pouch (which contains ALL magic EVERYWHERE and an infinite number of dimensions, all the magic needed for ANYTHING) spread out on my team Shaman and Kyle become even GREATER threats to your team then before with the tactical edge. Your avoiding the fact that Magic trumps any defense you have and are trying to save grace by twisting words. Stop twisting and post something good.

(h) Ask him yourself. He was the one who said so in the tournament draft threads.

(i)
where thor stopped some of his power? oh that fight, yea the one where Juggernaut didnt even use all his power cause thor was controlling it. Pish Posh is that supposed to PROVE anything? You guys are getting more and more pathetic while at the same time calling us liars? Who ignores, lies, and doesn't READ anything we present?? Try it, it usually helps

(j) Magical mind raping seems to be the hot subject of the matter. So when you show us that magical (tactical advantage that it is) mind raping isnt anything different than normal telepathy we can stop this. Please people they try to "defend" against our magic but they really HAVE no defense. (we have shown that Surfer cant fly and is vulnerable to magic)

(k) Shaman in the very same scan where he stopped flight stopped flight for a mile all around him. Youve seen the scan dude, stop complaining.
Ask mungi about the pacifying one I don't have it on me. I do know however that it pacified the HULK and it says so on every alpha flight page you go to. Here is the phobia one: http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AlphaFlight12-27.jpg

(L) With 21 MAGICAL GL rings, PLUS telekinesis, supermans thought processes and reflexes, your team is gonna go down. How?
During prep we pre programmed the rings to shield us and fire upon anything going past Mach 1. That right there can and will shield us from anything you have and convert it into more magical power.
While your team is in the battle making gay love to Hals body (turning him from human to superhuman) your EXPENDING LOADS of energy. We can JAM your rings, teleport them off while magically mind f*cking you with all the magic that Shaman can muster through the GL ring and his infinite possibility giving pouch (which again the teleporting is not a physical act and if need be we just magically teleport your fingers off *like lobo got Jack T Chances ring* PLUS UNLIKE Kyles Ion "fixed" ring doesn't come back to them)
From there we surround you with a shield that a evil GL could not get out of and evil superman while trying for HOURS couldnt get out of (and the GL was asking the ring how to get out, unlike your weak and pathetic excuse for a scan with Hal finding a damn weak spot) thus converting all your efforts to get the hell out (as kyle did with a flipping ANGEL) into MAGICAL explosions that are INCOMPATIBLE with your physical makeup (creating a type of anti-all energy or matter) and on top of that we could transmute all the air into the very same incompatible energy. Thus even your movements would hurt you. Its all a HUGE boom of magical energy. Your energy output wouldnt even phase Kyle who has been able to hold the sun in his hands while its blowing up AND the next big bang. We can seperate Surfer from his board (and then guess what? he CANT fly) while he gets blown up by magical explosions. Juggs gets to hit him a few times and out goes your heavy hitter (hey if Ironman can do it so can him). Hal without a ring is gonna get his ass blown up and we can teleport him to deep space just for fun, and maxima is gonna be covered by mirrors, that coninuelly grow thus not letting her telekinisis help her (just as the roots did in the last battle Leo/Kahn won) And while your all dying by having the very air your in MAGICALLY imcompatible with your physical makeups we could simply encase you in a structure of pure order (which killed the last guy who tried to break free)....and while at that, we could just do this to your incapacitated team: http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight18-21.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight18-22.jpg

Look at the last recap we did. Seems to be almost identical doesn't it. Well here it is again:
Summary
With prep we:
created multiple rings for everyone/infused them with magic
pre programmed the ring to shield and fire at anything coming our way and/or going past Mach 1
and enhanced our humans.

During the battle we:
Mind raped them (while they were busy pleasuring themselves in the sun )
jammed/teleported all of Hals rings while wrapping them in a non teleporting out shield
Sapped kinetic energy while converting it into magical explosions that are incompatible with their physiological makeup thus making them go BOOM! *just add the air got transmuted into that as well)
teleported hal into deep space/magically separated Surfer and the board/had Maxima get run over by mirrors all over the place while still kicking the crap outa the opposing team
Fast ball special Juggernaut at them (and since they are mind raped *passive AND scared they cant do shit)
and encased them in a structure of pure order IF they havent died yet

They judges have yet to prove that they could stop our magical mind meddling, our magical gl rings, or the magical energy suddenly being incompatible with their physical makeup. Also as in SS #12 Warlock Prime a magician far far far below Shaman created a potion that the SS drank which reduced him into a deep slumber. So if this hack's magic works on SS, Shaman's definetly will: so if we wanted to we could also make him go to sleep: http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/A_Flight4/AlphaFlight71-04.jpg maybe some Dust from the Realm of Dreams can work: A powder-like substance taken from Shaman's Pouch that put multiple people instantly to sleep. It has been shown to be effective against Wild Child, Sebastian Shaw, and three Canadian soliders at once.

I think newjak put it best: Yeah you guys may be the Cosmic Caballeros but we have your magic tequila right here

newjak86

Leo this just tells me how much you guys have nothing to go one. I'm sorry it seems as if me and BW have been changing our game plans alot(In reality we haven't we've just showed that it doesn't matter if you believe what they say or not we still beat them) but the fact is they are the ones who've got nothing to use. Their attack is failed they know it. They've got nothing else than but trying to take it to me and BW to take attention off the fact they have nothing.

How exactly is it Leo that all that stuff your trying to do is only going to take a few seconds again???? Oh wait you haven't you've got nothing to tell us you aren't doing a million things with Hal and Surfer before. thats right your not. Once again you haven't proved your guys are resistant to magic you've shown them going toe to toe and throwing around energy blasts not actually resisting spells. Heck BW showed one of SS being cut by a magical knife it seems he is not completely immune to magic right Leo (or a stupid sleeping drink). Face it you've given us nothing in terms of Magical immunity and thats what your failing to realize this isn't simple Mind Attacks these are magical mind attacks different so unless you can show where these guys minds are immune to magic you've got nothing.

Once again the point is even if we don't have Giant Juggs it makes no difference we still have shields and BW said the ring was reprogrammed to do the things we want it to so Juggs isn't doing anything.

Now we have Giant Juggs though and as such it as simple as dropping or teleporting out of the shields to do something that takes a few seconds to pull off while your guys are still tanning.

Once again me and BW haven't changed anything simply showed that it doesn't matter being in or out of the helmet is all.

The best part is you guys are trying to make it seem like we have the loosely backed plan and no proof. I have shown you Jugg's shield has a halting force. I have shown that Shaman doesn't need to see you just know your there and distance makes no difference. You've shown that Kyle can make rings just because it was a different does not change the fact he did it because last time I checked a GL's abilities aren't tied to the specific ring uses just that they have a ring to use. Basically the core of our plan is intact no matter which way you look at it.

What you haven't shown though is a scan of Hal making himself into Kryptonian. You haven't shown Silver Surfer making Adamantium. You haven't shown Hal binding rings to anyones fingers. Your showing that Surfer wouldn't exhaust himself making MASSIVE amounts of yellow sun radiation PLUS all the other bunches of crap you have

And the biggest is that none of you guys have shown a scan of any of your team being immune to magic. Basically even in your plan it takes a good time to take us down we don't have the same handicap we can take you down as soon as the match starts.

And you can scan us all you want all it means is that you guys have a first class viewing of your own demise because until you can prove half of what you say I'm inclined to tell the Judges once again You've got a whole lotta nothing to win this match for you while we have everything we need to win quite easily.

Judges for all their boasting about everything we've done they are worse then we are.

We have shown that for the most part we can do exactly what we said maybe a few glitches here and there but nothing big.

They on the other hand have almost completely changed the middle of their plan everytime. They went from engaging us close staying far away now they are scanning us. The key though is what good is scanning when it doesn't help you. They still can't beat us easily

SHAMAN ONLY NEEDS A FEW SECONDS TO USE HIS POWERS AND THATS EXACTLY WHAT THEY HAVE PROVIDED US WITH. THEY IN NO WAY HAVE SHOWN THAT THEY ARE BEATING US WITHIN A FEW SECONDS AND THEIR EXTENDED PREP TAKES ALOT LONGER THAN 10 SECONDS MORE LIKE 20 MINUTES.

There perhaps now people will understand what I'm saying a little better. Face it you guys are the ones with the flawed plan you have no way to counter anything we've done you know it so half of your posts have been trying to take away what we've done because you know you have no counter for it instead of showing how your beating us with them.

That is poor debating because in the end you haven't disproved anything we've done and now you've got to own up to the fact you have been sitting on a Rotten Egg this entire time.

TheKahn

Well luckily for us we can ignore most of the "facts" you and Newjak present as most of them are either made up or just incorrect.

A. Good. I'm glad we finally convinced you that the idiotic dust attack wouldn't work, although I'm not sure I would have admitted that we beat you on that point to all the judges if I were you.

B. I know this might be a little confusing to you since you haven't been participating in the majority of the debate so I'll explain it to you simply. During the recent Green Lantern: Rebirth story-arc how the rings work for was changed. But let me refer to Geoff Johns in his interview with Wizard Magazine (issue #166 p.64) on how the rings now work.

This isn't the Silver Age anymore where anybody could put on a Green Lantern ring and get it to work. I remember an old comics where Hal and Guy take off their rings at a bar to go out back and fight and two hillbillies end up taking the rings and using them to destroy cars with giant green chainsaws and make six packs of beer and stuff. It doesn't work that way anymore. It can't work like that. This is an incredible weapon and it takes a hell of a lot to get it to work for you. We realize that Kyle, John, Guy, and Hal really have to have something special inside them... -Geoff Johns

We knew this coming into the fight which is why we were so meticulous in explaining just how we enable our other characters to use a GL ring. Unfortunately you didn't and as such there is no chance Shaman or Juggernaut could possibly use a GL ring.

C. Trying to change you plans again I see. That's ok though, as it isn't like you had that much of a choice. Trapping yourselves in Juggernaut's shield and helmet turned out to be a big mistake for your team as you ended up neutering your two most versatile characters. As soon as you drop you shields we teleport Juggy off the battle field and instantly have a 2 vs 3 advantage. Actually, now that I think about it you two never proved that Juggy's shield could stop teleportation attacks so there really isn't any reason we just teleport Juggy off the battle field at any time we want. It's your shield after all, if you want to say it can block a specific attack then you have to prove it.

D. Please actually read you own scans. You and Newjak have a bad habit of post scans and then exaggerating greatly what they actually show. All your scan showed was Jade telling Alan to release his energy, to let her use her ring to focus it, and then there is a flash of green light. That's all it showed. And thanks to all the misrepresentations and flat out lies that your team has told during this debate, nobody can really take your word.

E. Damn, is it really that hard to keep up with what you've said?
Anyway, here you go:
Originally posted by Blair Wind

while at the SAME time Shaman infuses all the rings with raw magical properties making it go through anything you have like butter (as Jade and Alan demonstrate)

But don't worry, I already proved that your entire theory that GL have problems with Alan's magic is 100% incorrect.

F. Then show one scan of him CREATING copies of his OWN ring. Really, it's the last day of the round and you still haven't done so. Hal has created literally dozens of rings before while you can't manage to find a single one of Kyle doing so. No matter how many times you say something is true, without any evidence to back it up nobody is going to buy it. But we all know that you can't . Hence all the frustration but no scans.

G. Along with Shaman having Skyfather level magic power, right? Please, everyone can see for themselves how little you scan actually showed. We have no idea what happened after that page and you and Newjak have clearly shown you can't be trusted. Anyway there is no reason to believe that Shaman can release enough magic energy to do squat. The only revelent scan you've shown is one where Shaman was able to blow up a barn and much like your "tree destroying" globs that is nowhere near powerful enough to do anything to our team. The judges have to keep in mind that Jade and Alan both have intimate knowledge of both GL rings and the Starheart's power. Thus it may be possible for them to mesh them together in some form. However, Shaman and Kyle know next to nothing about the nature of each other's abilities and they havent' even proven that Kyle KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT THE JADE/ALAN FEAT. This is just a final desperate attempt to think of new tactic that they hope will save them. Sadly it just too little too late.

H. Doesn't really matter for us as we have proven we can make more rings while you can't. The best you could do is a sad cry that since Kyle is a GL he can do it. Too bad for you that this is directly contradicted by not only the story line where Kyle needs a copy of Hal's ring to rebuild the Corps but also the scans you yourselves used in the first "round 6"

I. Leo was just pointing out where you two got something else wrong. Don't kill the messenger. You only have your own ignorance/dishonestly to blame.

J. And just to be sure you plan on doing this magical "mind raping" with your Hulk calming light, right? That's just sad. We've shown our team can withstand the hightest level of telepathic attack and we've shown that Hal's shields (which all our team has) require Dr. Strange/Fate magic to get past them and all you can through at us is a "calming attack." Show a scan of Shaman actually MIND RAPING ANYONE before you go spewing out this garbage. As it is he is stuck behind Juggy's shield and telepathy blocking helmet.

K. What a minute here! You're basing your entire "mind raping" attack on a feat that you don't even have a scan of??? That's not only pathetic but horrible debating. You actually need King Mungi to come in and help you out? So we've disproven you dust attack, and you don't even have a scan of the "Hulk calming light." Damn, you guys can't prove anything, can you? Oh, and as I've proven our entire team can pull out other people's phobias. Once again, anything you can do we can do much better.

L. Your team is still stuck behind Juggy's helmet and shield, we can easily teleport Juggy off the battle field, the unprotected Shaman is killed in an instant by an acid bath, a physical attack, or an energy attack by any one of our team members, and Kyle is vastly outmatched and out numbered.

Once again, ALAN ISN'T ON YOUR TEAM. You guys have a really hard time actually using the powers and characters you have to win a fight, don't you? Shaman doesn't have Alan's powerset and it is idiotic to assume he can grant Kyle Alan's powers. As for our sundipping our Kyrptonian Hal, it is easily accomplished by our team. Hell, Hal could likely do it himself thanks to his premanently attached 10 rings but no sense in not having the Surfer help out a little. Regardless, that simple act isn't going to interfer with our monitoring of your team. Also just as you seem not to understand this, every member of our team has a GL ring in addition to their own powers. Taking away the Surfer's board won't do anything as he can use his ring to fly or just create another one.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1989_027_18.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1989_027_19.jpg

Honestly we gave the Surfer a GL ring at the start of the fight. You really haven't been keeping up have you?

As for the scans of Shaman using his "Baubles" I believe that that very attack was both discussed during the draft and banned. IIRC it was stated by either you or Newjak stated that you wouldn't use such an attack anyway as it is clearly illegal (although I'm not 100% sure who said that). Blinking the universe out of existance along with your now abandoned black hole attack are both banned.

Every single thing he just mentioned is brand new and NOT included in their origional prep plan. They had to complelty change their tactics. Judges I beg you to go look at their first prep plan and see if you can find any of that in it! IT'S NOT THERE!

As for their "attack":
-Alan can jam GL rings not anybody on their team (unless I missed where they gave Kyle Alan's powers... )
-They can't sap anybody's kinetic energy and not only is the unprotect Shaman almost instatly killed but the Juggernaut his teleported off the battle field. Again our team is much faster and we've made sure to keep our distance so we can them apart at our leasure.
-The Surfer, Hal, and Maxima are all GLs so there isn't any chance of the being teleported off the battle field, confused by mirrors, or the Surfer being hampered by loseing a board he can just recreate.
-As for there sleeping dust, again Shaman is trapped behind Juggy's shield and helmet and we can easily take out his unprotected ass out from a distance as we have already discribed. He'll never get close enough to use it. Just add it to their other pathetic attacks they are desperate to use.

King_Mungi

Hey don't mention my name in this as I recall both factions have asked for my advice.

leonidas

you guys are seriously unbelieveable.

you failed reading comp in school, eh? actually, he said SINCE crisis, it requires a STRONG WILL to use the ring. how does that translate to pre-c feats are crap . . .?

THEN PROVE IT!! stop talking and STARTING SHOWING!!

DUDE! cuz, you keep SAYING it, but you ain't SHOWED jacksh!t. the corps could REALLY use copies of that ring . . .

i SAID thor nullified his shield. the scans i showed you are BEFORE the nullification, and AFTER. what more do you need? juggs SAYS his forcefield is up and it DOES NOT WORK LIKE YOU SAY IT DOES!! it never has except in that 1/10000 scan. if i'm not mistaken that's about the same chances spidey had of beating firelord . . .

so he reaches into his bag, pulls out a handful of . . . magic . . .? and packs it into the ring just like that? oohhhhhh . . . then OF COURSE he can tamper with the rings. i keep forgetting he's a skyfather. could even a skyfather tamper with the rings?

i have a PM from him that says different . . .

so you showed a false scan and have a scan of a knife stabbing him. what about SPELLS affecting him? you claim he is SOOOOO vulnerable to them. where's the scans to show it? i have showed him beating MEPHISTO IN HELL, stalemating loki and showed a scan where strange himself ADMITS ss is more powerful than he is!! i showed him EASILY breaking agatha harkness's shield (which doesn't bode well for shaman -- not that he was shielded anyway, but if he WAS magically shielded ss could blast right THROUGH his little magic shield . . . IF max hasn't killed him first!) we showed a scan that had DR FATE working WITH someone to break out of a gl shield! and our shield is STRONGER than his because we have TWO sources of willpower reinforcing it AND the pc and TP energy. what exactly did we fail to prove again . . .?

you in the meantime keep SAYING his 'spells' are different from all this other magic our shields and power have been shown to overcome. where is the proof shaman can overcome OUR shields!!) we've proven our power can stop magic. prove shaman can get through the shields . . .

for once.

not that it would work through our shields (where we are . . . standing, anyway . . .) but you are grounded too. his spell DID stop birds and bugs and EVERYTHING. so unless he willed all the birds and bugs to stop, it affected EVERYTHING, regardless of his control of OTHER spells . . .

and THAT IS WHY i ask for scans, judges. first one he doesn't even HAVE a scan of. and the second one . . .

1. where does it say it brings out her 'fears'?
2. on the PRECEDING page, shaman ADMITS he cannot harm her body
3. lil DOES NOT have anywhere NEAR the wills or minds that we have, nor is she shielded against . . . well, everything! like some 'mist' would waft through our shields . . .
4. that 'powerful spell' affected ONE person!! and did i fail to ask -- WHERE DOES IT SAY IT CAUSES PHOBIAS!!?? one MORE false claim. wich i would have been keeping count from the start of false claims and illegal tactics . . .

this is PRICELESS . . . that was BW above. here is newjack in the very next post . . .

no, you've hardly changed anything! BWHAHAHAH!! with 2 left in the debate you tell everyone you are changing what you do in PREP!! ROTFLMAO!!!! are you kidding?? and you tell US we are changing our plans?? how is ANYONE supposed to know what you're doing!? cool, so we change our prep too -- we give everyone ten rings, we share memories, we put up our shields, we pre-program the ring to create constrictors on ALL OF YOU the first FEMTO SECOND into the fight!! and we make sure all THREE of us are focussing on the constrictors with our . . . THIRTY RINGS!! no need for shields, no need for sundipping, no need for anything.

yee-haw!! we win AGAIN!!

the rest fo this is reliant upon:

(a) kyle's making copies -- UNPROVEN
(b) shaman's ( ) 'ability to almost instantaneously tamper with the rings to make them . . . 'magical' . . .
(c) the fact that they are NOT in constrictors a femto second into the fight. see, anyone can play this 'go back to the start because we know what they will do and change our strategy' game. not very cool though. and if we REALLY wanted, we could always say that ss just KNOWS with his ability to SEE INTO THE FUTURE, what you guys are gonna do . . .

desperate AND beneath you. ALMOST as desperate as the rest of that jumbled paragraph where you throw in every attack in the respect thread and say it is better now because your ring is magical . . . it's not worth refuting that crammed, jumbled mass of attacks. they have no proof kyle can make copies and LESS proof shaman can make the rings magic.

WE HAVE MORE PROOF THAT SS COULD IMBUE THE PC INTO EACH RING!! after all, he DID SYNTHESIZE TEH ODINPOWER!! (yeah, we have NO PROOF ss can handle magic . . . ) that would make OUR gl rings even MORE powerful!!

gl + ss = RETARDEDLY powerful, and likely as close to thanos as any character in this tourny can get. you think all shaman's little spells would affect thanos?? and don't forget, in a battle of will, when strange banished both ss AND thanos to a diferent dimension where their regualr powers didn't work the same . . . SS BEAT THANOS!!

stop quoting fan sites. SHOW A $%$#@! SCAN of something. we've seen time and time again that your 'word' is meaningless. hell, even most of your SCANS are useless, misinterpretted or flat out DECEPTIVE!!

how long does it take to make ANY construct, again . . .? HOW fast is ss and his reaction speed?? ss could do a HUNDRED more things if we want him to! not sure if you're waare -- he's pretty fast . . .

here's a response to EACH of their 'never-changing' strategies . . .

(1) if they STAY inside giant juggs they can't attack. we sense his ludicrous shield (heheh, note how they've suddenly stopped arguing that it acts like FLYPAPER . . .) we get well away from them, constrictor, adamantium. SCREWED.

(2) if they drop the shield and port out, our shields hold for the seconds it takes for us to port out and take them out. recall PLEASE that THE ULTRASONICS AND FLASH ONLY NEEDS TO STUN KYLE AND SHAMAN AND JUGGS FOR AN INSTANT for them to lose concentration and drop any shields. see the FIRST POST for the effects of sonics on gl constructs, and everyone knows what nimrod did to juggs . . .) they have a BRICK against the SILVER SURFER WITH A RING!! the fight INSTANTLY becomes 3 - 2.

things they have NOT proven no matter HOW MUCH they claim they have:

kyles ring can make copies
spells work 'different' than any other magic
shaman can tamper with a ring, OR manipulate juggs (i love too the notion that not only CAN shaman make the rings magical, he can do it INSTANTLY!! )

we have proven EVERY FACET OF OUR ATTACKS! EVERY ONE! they have lies repeatedly, been seen to show false and misleading scans, get their facts all confused and generally to not even be on the same PAGE with each other, going so far as to CHANGE THEIR PREP!!

i really don't see how they expect to win when so many major parts of their 'plans' are unproven assumptions without having been LOGICALLY derived from previous feats . . .

outarddwarf

Alright, firstly i would like to apologize if i am not giving each team enough time to fully debate. I have to get offline very soon. So both teams have really fought hard. I will be judging in favor of The L.O.C.O.s. I have Pmed my reasoning to the other judges and digi because i don't want it to effect the rest of the debaters fight. Good luck to you both.

leonidas

you should have waited til tomorrow or the next day to vote as we have not finished yet . . .

and i'll look forward to the reasoning . . .

oh NON OFFICIAL post . . .

newjak86

This isnt admitting anything it is showing you that there is more than one way to skin a cat Plus considering we have Shaman who controls a pouch that can pull out ANYTHING it damn well pleases in terms of magic we can mind f*ck you anyway we want:
Fears
Seeing things that arnt there
Dull your mind
Pacify you
Make you fall alseep with some dust from the REALM OF DREAMS (and ha! a magician that was crap compared to Shaman made him fall asleep)
Ignite all pain receptros in your mind.
Play with your emotions (make you depressed, low, sick, ect ect)
And the best part is? Its all done MAGICALLY in a logical extention of his powers *You yourselves were the ones that asked if we could use logical extentions to our characters powers....now it only applies to you??

Its good thing alot of it was preprogrammed into the rings but anyways thanks for admitting that we do have rings. Also if precrisis is crap wouldnt that make ALL precrisis crap You cant show Hal making rings and then say well...if he could do it then he can do it now when we all know the rings where different then.

So now you know exactly when we're dropping our shields to do things. Basically we can
A) Drop it before your done with your 20 minutes of prep Mindraping you before your ever finished.

B) Drop it as soon as we have all our things ready and have Shaman do his spell as we're dropping the shield mind raping you still.

So now we're back to how to block teleportation once again prove your shields are blocking Magical attacks especailly since you never talked about any of your sheilds blocking magic in your prep. You love to try and Double Standard us don't you not this time Proof is in the pudding you've got to show it. Besides you never talked about teleporting Cain in the begining anyways until after all your prep is done. And considering that the shield and his powers derive from CYTORRAK (and Strange seems to think his shields are pretty damn cool), none of your powers would go through, and teleporting him wouldnt work (and youd have to get yourself past our forcefield that converts all your energy and transforms it to magical enhanced explosions

Once again when does a GL's abilities revolve around a particular Ring last time I checked it depends upon the wearer. And if Kyle could do it once he can do it again.

Shaman has the power to do ANYTHING contained in his pouch (which funnily enough contains....everything.) His pouch could suck up the world if turned upside down...the madness would make you lose your sanity just by looking in it (just like what happened to Smart Alec) So your saying he doesnt have the mojo to infuse the ring (which he could just ask to help him if he wanted to) with some magic to reinforce the deal? Pfffffffffffft the hopeful cries of losing men.

Ok shut the hell up we made an editting mistake about the Nimrod incident I already addressed and apologized for it. You want to call us liers and dishonest we're not the ones trying to hide behind worthless posts about how we are messing up just to hide the fact we have nothing that works and no defence against anything

Yeah you've shown us that your guys are very resistant to Telepathy good thing we aren't aren't using telepathy we are mind raping you with MAGIC. Heck we've already shown the mind affecting powder (and I KNOW there is a scan of Shaman telling someone that the powder was a phobia powder) but if you dont believe us (which you seldom do it still effected her mind).

Apprantly nothing we say sticks in your head right?

what? you show him looking into the past and that equates to the future? plus time powers are banned

I don't even have to reply to the rest of your post there because basically it is the same "BUT SILVER SURFER AND EVERYONE HAS A GL RING SO THEY ARE UNSTOPPABLE HAHAHA.................WHAT YOU WANT A SCAN OF US BEING IMMUNE TO MAGIC NO SIR WHY WELL WELL BECAUSE ALL YOUR ATTACKS SUCK THATS WHY"

How does this matter in any way? IF we were behind juggs shield you would NOT be able to harm us in any way. However IF we could not have made Juggs bigger we changed our plans into another "time line"
Magical Rings, Amped humans (which kyle HAS done, its not something hal would think of hes too arogant), mind raping, a shield that STILL traps you so long as your close to him. Kyle can absorb all the energy, with Shaman, and again convert it to something to use against you. As shaman has shown he can make the energy incompatible with anything he damn well pleases.

Your gl rings come off. Ours dont. Our gl rings have magic. Yours dont. We magically mind rape you. You have no defense. We absorb and convert all your energy to more magical explosions. You cant handle it. Our thought processes are all on the same level. You spend 20 minutes continually prepping Hal. We MAGICALLY mind rape you.

So good night folks have fun the lost they know it and I'm off to bed becuase I'm not very scared right now.

TheKahn

Originally posted by newjak86

Ok I'm getting a little tired of this. You are the ones who haven't shown how you are beating us. You are the ones with the little to no proof that you guys are even doing half of what you say.

Of course you are. Getting beat is never pleasant.
Please we've shown several ways we can beat your team no matter which plan you use. Besides the instant win with the adamantium encasement and Constrictor, any of our character can teleport Juggy off the battle field with their GL rings
(here is Hal teleporting Barry Allen http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/101bed38.jpg ), the unprotected Shaman get killed by an acid bath or a physical/energy attack from anyone of our team, and Kyle get's overwhelmed by a sundipped Kryptonian Hal with muliptle rings as well as the other members of our team. Your just out mattched and out powered.

Originally posted by newjak86

This isnt admitting anything it is showing you that there is more than one way to skin a cat Plus considering we have Shaman who controls a pouch that can pull out ANYTHING it damn well pleases in terms of magic we can mind f*ck you anyway we want:
Fears
Seeing things that arnt there
Dull your mind
Pacify you
Make you fall alseep with some dust from the REALM OF DREAMS (and ha! a magician that was crap compared to Shaman made him fall asleep)
Ignite all pain receptros in your mind.
Play with your emotions (make you depressed, low, sick, ect ect)
And the best part is? Its all done MAGICALLY in a logical extention of his powers *You yourselves were the ones that asked if we could use logical extentions to our characters powers....now it only applies to you??

BS and we all know it. You two have had to abondon nearly every tactic you started with as we have disproved them.

Notice again there is just Newjak running his mouth about what Shaman could do but doesn't show one damn scan to back it up. We've shown our shileds taking on Dr. Fate-level magic and they think Shaman's dust can affect us when we never even have to get close to him to kill him.

Originally posted by newjak86

Its good thing alot of it was preprogrammed into the rings but anyways thanks for admitting that we do have rings. Also if precrisis is crap wouldnt that make ALL precrisis crap You cant show Hal making rings and then say well...if he could do it then he can do it now when we all know the rings where different then.

You HAVEN"T PROVEN ONCE THAT KYLE CAN MAKE RINGS. Are you really having that much trouble keeping up? You two have been saying that from the start but haven't backed it up once. It's just another example of you piss poor debating skills.

And just so you know Hal's ring can make copies post-Crisis. You posted scans of Kyle using his ring to create extra rings in the first "round 6". Check out GL #100 on for reference.

Originally posted by newjak86

So now you know exactly when we're dropping our shields to do things. Basically we can
A) Drop it before your done with your 20 minutes of prep Mindraping you before your ever finished.

B) Drop it as soon as we have all our things ready and have Shaman do his spell as we're dropping the shield mind raping you still.

So now we're back to how to block teleportation once again prove your shields are blocking Magical attacks especailly since you never talked about any of your sheilds blocking magic in your prep. You love to try and Double Standard us don't you not this time Proof is in the pudding you've got to show it. Besides you never talked about teleporting Cain in the begining anyways until after all your prep is done. And considering that the shield and his powers derive from CYTORRAK (and Strange seems to think his shields are pretty damn cool), none of your powers would go through, and teleporting him wouldnt work (and youd have to get yourself past our forcefield that converts all your energy and transforms it to magical enhanced explosions

The idioticy is staggering. Face it, Shaman's telepathic abilities are pathetic and we have some of the best telepathic defenses allowable in the tourney. Our prep takes only seconds and we've shown that Hal's shields can take on Dr. Fate's magic attacks and that Allen Scott couldn't get past them. You haven't even shown a single scan of Shaman controling anyone telepathically, much less mind raping a gerbil.

Originally posted by newjak86

Once again when does a GL's abilities revolve around a particular Ring last time I checked it depends upon the wearer. And if Kyle could do it once he can do it again.

Well I have to say you know shit about Green Lantern. Kyle's ring was made differently than the standard GL ring as everybody knows. Actually look up the facts before you make a ignroant ass of yourself.

Originally posted by newjak86

Shaman has the power to do ANYTHING contained in his pouch (which funnily enough contains....everything.) His pouch could suck up the world if turned upside down...the madness would make you lose your sanity just by looking in it (just like what happened to Smart Alec) So your saying he doesnt have the mojo to infuse the ring (which he could just ask to help him if he wanted to) with some magic to reinforce the deal? Pfffffffffffft the hopeful cries of losing men.

My ass. Where exactly did you prove that Shaman as nearly unlimited power in his pouch? That's right you didn't . You talked a lot of shit about Shaman's powers but hardely ever backed them up. This is a debate and after all the lies you've told in this round nobody is going to take you word for anything.

Ok shut the hell up we made an editting mistake about the Nimrod incident I already addressed and apologized for it. You want to call us liers and dishonest we're not the ones trying to hide behind worthless posts about how we are messing up just to hide the fact we have nothing that works and no defence against anything

BS. How exactly do you accidently edit a QUOTE??? And you just happened to edit it to perfectly suit you purposes...

Originally posted by newjak86

Yeah you've shown us that your guys are very resistant to Telepathy good thing we aren't aren't using telepathy we are mind raping you with MAGIC. Heck we've already shown the mind affecting powder (and I KNOW there is a scan of Shaman telling someone that the powder was a phobia powder) but if you dont believe us (which you seldom do it still effected her mind).

Magic attacks that will never reach us, from a character we can kill at a distance, and magic attacks our GL rings can easily dealt with as admitted by your own partner. And as I've shown our entire team can copy the phobia trick.

Originally posted by newjak86

Khan stop contradicting yourself guys it is disturbing. Plus it would be a natural extention of his powers to mind f*ck you

Translation: again we can't prove jack shit.

Originally posted by newjak86

Apprantly nothing we say sticks in your head right?

another good response.

Originally posted by newjak86

what? you show him looking into the past and that equates to the future? plus time powers are banned

And skyfather magic isn't?

Originally posted by newjak86

I don't even have to reply to the rest of your post there because basically it is the same "BUT SILVER SURFER AND EVERYONE HAS A GL RING SO THEY ARE UNSTOPPABLE HAHAHA.................WHAT YOU WANT A SCAN OF US BEING IMMUNE TO MAGIC NO SIR WHY WELL WELL BECAUSE ALL YOUR ATTACKS SUCK THATS WHY"

How does this matter in any way? IF we were behind juggs shield you would NOT be able to harm us in any way. However IF we could not have made Juggs bigger we changed our plans into another "time line"
Magical Rings, Amped humans (which kyle HAS done, its not something hal would think of hes too arogant), mind raping, a shield that STILL traps you so long as your close to him. Kyle can absorb all the energy, with Shaman, and again convert it to something to use against you. As shaman has shown he can make the energy incompatible with anything he damn well pleases.

Your gl rings come off. Ours dont. Our gl rings have magic. Yours dont. We magically mind rape you. You have no defense. We absorb and convert all your energy to more magical explosions. You cant handle it. Our thought processes are all on the same level. You spend 20 minutes continually prepping Hal. We MAGICALLY mind rape you.

So good night folks have fun the lost they know it and I'm off to bed becuase I'm not very scared right now.

Their debating skill are terrible, they've contridicted each other mulitple times, and they've had to compelety redo their entire strategy after we tore their first one to shreads. All you got from them was a lot of hot air, dishonest quotes, and conjecture.

1. we had a solid opening strategy from the start (shows in that they actually eventually were FORCED to copy parts of it, and were FORCED to change tactics again and again, going so far as to change their PREP 2 hours before the end of the debate!) our strategy allowed for easy, REALISTIC flexibility and basically allowed us the chance to counter whatever they did.

2. regardless of what they WANT you to think, the entire prep time at the start of the battle took literally seconds. gl rings DO operate pretty quickly, as does ss. nor of course do the rings 'get exhausted' . . .

3. we answered every one of their strategies. if they stay in the helmet they get adamantium and a constrictor, while making their characters useless. if they come into the fight in the helmet then drop the shield and attack, our shields are MORE than strong enough to hold until we port out and make the fight instantly 3 - 2. i seriously don't know WHAT juggs is doing in a battle of this magnitude against guys who have so much versatility and speed . . . if they just barge in (easy to say AFTER they know our strategy . . .) our shields STILL hold and we port out and deal with them.

4. i can't say this one clearly enough:

ALL their 'plans' have revolved around utterly UNSUPPORTED feats. manipulating juggs (which they bailed on). making juggs into a walking piece of flypaper whose shield ALSO acts as the crimson bands (which they bailed on), using attacks that have never been shown (which they bailed on). tampering with a ring. making COPIES of the one-of-a-kind-ring kyle uses. trying to say JUGGS could use a ring because he . . . dug himself out? they don't even have anyway to show that 'spells' are some 'different' from the high level magic that we have ALREADY countered and dealt with.

EVERYTIME we called them on their BS they eventually relented and went on to something new. now though, they are OUT of time and have no way to dig up OTHER 'plans'.

5. we have proven EVERY part of our offense and defense WITH SCANS, NOT ASSUMPTIONS. they relied SOLELY on magic, assumed we were 'weak' against it. we have SHOWED you REPEATED scans that back up our claim that magic WOULD be stopped. ss's pc ALONE (forget the fact that it is AMPED by GL ENERGY!) has been synthesized with the odinpower, stalemated loki, beaten mephisto in hell, broken agatha harkness's shields effortlessly . . . and in any event -- they failed to show ANY of their 'magic' attacks. oops, the one they DID show didn't even do what they kept SAYING it would! no scan of the 'calming' light, no scan of the mind dust, no scan saying a spell invokes ones deepest fears!! we on the other hand have SHOWN that our minds and wills are ENORMOUSLY resistant, and that even UBER levels of magic CAN be blocked and overcome. on top of that -- they would only need to be blocked for SECONDS, before we port out and end things. ss ports juggs, max makes a construct to AMPLIFY her tp and takes out shaman who WITHOUT a ring (and no personal shield) would die almost instantly and WITH a ring is NOT as experienced as max. and anyway her tp is AMPED through her construct and would batter through his less-expereinced gl shield. hal could match construct for construct with kyle and it would only take moments for it to be 3 on 1 for us. (and btw, ROOKIE HAL HAS BATTLED EXTREMELY WELL AGAINST PARALLAX TOO . . . in fact parallax actually had to use SURPRISE to beat him . . . it's in the respect thread if anyone is interested . . .) hell, we even SHOWED you how hard rings are to use (which is why we were so careful about ensuring we had experience and control of them). green arrow could do little more than MAKE an arrow! but juggs can miraculously make a shield AND fly??!

6. no matter how much they claim we have changed our tactics and they have not . . .

it is PAINFULLY obvious who the team on the defensive has been this ENTIRE fight!! they DID change tactics, REPEATEDLY, ending at last by changing prep -- wish we would have known in advance you could change your prep AFTER you saw the other team's plans . . . and yet BW had the BALLZ to say WE WERE COMMITTED TO OUR ATTACK STRATEGY!!! they know we countered everything, so continued to confusingly (and apparently WITHOUT their partners knowledge) CHANGE their plans. look at our first post. we made a SINGLE alteration from that, answering their now-defunct hide inside juggs plan . . . other than that, we have STOOD PAT THE WHOLE FIGHT. (well, except where i changed our prep after they did to encase them all in constrictors reinforced by all three of our wills 1 femto second into the fight . . . ) the fact alone that THEY were constantly changing to OUR attacks tells you who dictated things in this fight the whole way.

7. they lied numerous time, mislead several times, were flat out WRONG a bunch of times and tried to repeatedly use/try to use illegal or bannable tactics.

8. they waited until the LAST day to lay all their alterations on us because that way everything would be rushed and they could perhaps avoid having all their BS called. this way they won't 'have time' to produce proof of their claims. pretty sneaky . . .

9. as a team, they did NOT operate well, seeming to be on different pages many times, going so far as to argue different attacks in subsequent posts! their strategies were presented in a helter-skelter manner, as they reached for every feat in every respect thread then extrapolated from said feats in inappropriate ways. very chaotic debating by them, making it difficult to figure out just WHICH strategy they were employing.

so, for all the reasons above, i believe we have earned your vote. regardless, this was one HELLUVA busy day. we have about 3 minutes left in this debate and we appreciate you guys trying to keep up with it.

sombrero2

Blair Wind

To simplify for the judges we have a summary of what we have done

Summary
With prep we:
created multiple rings for everyone/infused them with magic
pre programmed the ring to shield and fire at anything coming our way and/or going past Mach 1
and enhanced our humans with telekinisis and Superman base level bodies
(and you can insert a giant juggs based on wheather you believe it can be done or not)

During the battle we:
Mind raped them (while they were busy pleasuring themselves in the sun )
jammed/teleported all of Hals rings while wrapping the team in a non teleporting out shield (which Kyle has done before)
Sapped kinetic energy while converting it into magical explosions that are incompatible with their physiological makeup thus making them go BOOM! *just add the air got transmuted into that as well)
teleported hal into deep space/magically separated Surfer and the board/had Maxima get run over by mirrors all over the place while still kicking the crap outa the opposing team
Fast ball special Juggernaut at them (and since they are mind raped *passive AND scared and another other magically mind trick you can think of they cant do shit)
and encased them in a structure of pure order IF they havent died yet.

They judges have yet to prove that they could stop our magical mind meddling, our magical gl rings, or the magical energy suddenly being incompatible with their physical makeup. Any energy they throw at us gets absorbed and used to enhance us physically, and we can crush them with anything we want

TheKahn

BW just forgot to mention where they proved Shaman was capable of any of that

leonidas

and mach 1? who cares. we TELEPORT . . .

newjak86

Originally posted by TheKahn
BW just forgot to mention where they proved Shaman was capable of any of that The match is over Khan no more debating although you guys were cutting it a little close.

Anyways it is as of now
1-1
The C.C.s have the Poll Vote

The L.O.C.O.s have 1 judges vote

Blair Wind

well debatings done and I wasnt able to get these scans in time to use them in the debate:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight27-12.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight27-13.jpg

Good luck to all!

leonidas

so, . . . no one should open them then . . .

leonidas

oh, in case more votes come in -- at 12:00 it was 32-28 in our favor. thanks to those who voted.

TheKahn

Originally posted by Blair Wind
well debatings done and I wasnt able to get these scans in time to use them in the debate:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight27-12.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight27-13.jpg

Good luck to all!

Then why post them now?

newjak86

Originally posted by leonidas
oh, in case more votes come in -- at 12:00 it was 32-28 in our favor. thanks to those who voted.

I believe I've already addressed this by saying you guys have taken the Poll Vote not that it will help you

leonidas

we'll see . . .

Blair Wind

so who wants some icecream?

newjak86

Originally posted by leonidas
we'll see . . . I'm not worried at all

leonidas

really? is that why "you went to bed . . ."?

newjak86

Originally posted by leonidas
really? is that why "you went to bed . . ."?

At the time I was but then I was like screw it I'm gonna see if anyother judges Vote(coughVALIDUScough).

But yeah you guys nervous at all.

illadelph12

Sad...

Blair Wind

......whats sad?

newjak86

Originally posted by illadelph12
Sad... Why are you sad

leonidas

Originally posted by newjak86
At the time I was but then I was like screw it I'm gonna see if anyother judges Vote(coughVALIDUScough).

But yeah you guys nervous at all.

actually, i had fun debating today amd think we did well enough to win. if we don't, thats cool because i'm satisfied.

newjak86

Originally posted by leonidas
actually, i had fun debating today amd think we did well enough to win. if we don't, thats cool because i'm satisfied. Yeah right if you loose the first thig you gonna do is demand third match double overtime this time no magic pouch

batdude123

Both teams did a great job. Through all the name calling, I can tell you respect each other.

leonidas

Originally posted by newjak86
Yeah right if you loose the first thig you gonna do is demand third match double overtime this time no magic pouch

and?

TheKahn

Originally posted by newjak86
Yeah right if you loose the first thig you gonna do is demand third match double overtime this time no magic pouch

You're damn right.

newjak86

Originally posted by leonidas
and? Oh yeah I also forgot to mention the fact you would try to get Juggernaut's Helmet banned and get Kyle's ring thrown out

leonidas

Originally posted by newjak86
Oh yeah I also forgot to mention the fact you would try to get Juggernaut's Helmet banned and get Kyle's ring thrown out

nah, we'd just make sure we had someone policing to keep out all the BS . . .

We'll start the finals match soon after this wraps up...probably Monday or Tues.

King_Mungi

So....Shaman kicks ass :P...yeah thought so.

TheKahn

Originally posted by Blair Wind seems more people are voting for us.....

Too bad we already won the poll

Originally posted by newjak86
The match is over Khan no more debating although you guys were cutting it a little close.

Anyways it is as of now
1-1
The C.C.s have the Poll Vote

The L.O.C.O.s have 1 judges vote

whistling

DigiMark007

...yeah, that's how it'll have to stand. The problem with setting a timer on the poll is that it's not exact. I set it for 7 days, but I made the match Sunday evening, so it won't close officially until tonight. The problem is, the voting was officially done when the debating was, and all that's left is the judges votes.

So as of the end of voting, as newjak correctly said in his post, the CC's had it, so that's how it will stand.

It remains 1-1.

The poll is at 35-33 right now in favor of, but I'm going to reset it to being tied and close it manually.

Blair Wind

aww....well...shouldnt voting be done...when all the voting is done?
I mean some people just voted and now its 35/33 us....

DigiMark007

Originally posted by Blair Wind
aww....well...shouldnt voting be done...when all the voting is done?

Nah, precedents are precedents, and that's how we've been doing it since the beginning of the tourney. I can't go back now without creating an insane stir.

Because what if it sw itched back again and they were suddenly winning 37-35? Do I close it then and have them win the poll? Or take the current numbers? No, we have to have a set time (midnight last night) or else all hell could break loose.

newjak86

Edit

Nevermind

DigiMark007

Originally posted by newjak86
So what Digi what are you saying.

are you saying that we have the Poll Vote or

That we will be using the final verdict of it as was at Midnight last night???????

They took the poll because they had it at midnight. Otherwise, we run into problems of when exactly to close the poll. If it was 30 minutes ago, they still had it. If it's right now, you guys would win.

But we've been going with midnight on Sat as the end-point since the beginning of the tourney to avoid controversy, so that's how it'll be. The voting remains tied 1-1.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
They took the poll because they had it at midnight. Otherwise, we run into problems of when exactly to close the poll. If it was 30 minutes ago, they still had it. If it's right now, you guys would win.

But we've been going with midnight on Sat as the end-point since the beginning of the tourney to avoid controversy, so that's how it'll be. The voting remains tied 1-1.

I also just reset it to 34-34 and closed it. If nothing more it was a moral Victory for us

Blair Wind

is that the biggest number of pollers so far? Seems we had a really good match guys

DigiMark007

Yeah, huge turnout for both sides. Good match.

TheKahn

Anybody have any ideas about when the judges are going to vote?

DigiMark007

Originally posted by TheKahn
Anybody have any ideas about when the judges are going to vote?

If they're not here by the end of today, I'll start PMs.

Blair Wind

Ohhhhhh OHHHHHHH I know this one I know this one Jumpy:

When they get on

pile

Stay Windy

newjak86

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yeah, huge turnout for both sides. Good match. Well of course it was we all presented great arguement good counters and above all we stayed civilized

DarkCrawler

100

Blair Wind

101

batdude123

102 tuftwoot

King_Mungi

Ummm...What's after 102? 9, right?

batdude123

No, it's eleven!! DUH!!! doh

Blair Wind

dontgetit

TheKahn

wheelchair

Blair Wind

ban2

batdude123

herbwank

DigiMark007

Stop it.

batdude123

.

batdude123

Nice Digi.

Scoobless

So is the match finished or not?

outarddwarf

fights over, we are waiting on the other judges!

Scoobless

How is the vote standing at the moment?

outarddwarf

I voted loco and the popular vote is caballeros

Scoobless

but it's 34/34

outarddwarf

the poll officially ended saturday at midnight. At that point it was in favor of the caballeros. Then more people voted and it reversed, then after that digi set it at even and closed it.

illadelph12

Deliberating...

Blair Wind

Good to know

A.J

Damn i forgot to vote, just let me vote we can have a clear winner.

DigiMark007

Originally posted by A.J
Damn i forgot to vote, just let me vote we can have a clear winner.

Browse the last couple pages....we already do.

A.J

Damn your smugness Digi

And I would have voted Blair Wind and Newjak anyway. schmoll

Blair Wind

Scoobless

So is it over or not? I thought there was still a couple of judges who hadn't voted

batdude123

They're being pu$$ie$. herbnana

newjak86

Wow Our match must have been really hard to decide

batdude123

Is ANYbody gonna vote???

A.J

I would if I could but it was my mums birthday so i missed it.

Blair Wind

Vals on
X is......wanting to have the last say.
And Ill is deliberating.

batdude123

Dammit!!! It's not a life-changing decision!!! Vote, and give a reason. Geez!!!

illadelph12

Sorry, I've been really busy at work today with database and programming training. I'm actually about to get off of work right now. I don't have a PC at home (due to the burgulary), so I'll post my vote and explanation of said vote first thing tomorrow morning.

I'm headed to the crib.

Peace.

Blair Wind

Peace

A.J

I could vote

illadelph12

Ok, after reading and re-reading the entire battle 5 times to make sure I took all things into consideration and did not do a disservice to any and all parties invlolved, I have to give my vote to the Cosmic Cabalerros (Leo & Kahn).

The L.O.C.O.s put themselves in a major tactical bind with their initial plan by essentially trapping their team within Juggernaut during their prep, but due to the fact I actually have a working knowledge of all characters involved (and the rules), I was actually forced to disregard a majority of their initial plan because it revolved around a tactic I knew they could not perform. Juggernaut proved to be a huge liability in this battle. His abilities make it nigh impossible to power mesh or boost his attributes because his powers work essentially to negate any outside influences that do not supercede the protection Cytorrak provides. Unless it was a magic spell greater than Cytorrak's influence, Juggernaut would basically be immune to any form of matter manipulation or power augmentation, be it by friend or foe, and given that Thanos is the power limit, and I do not think Thanos, under his personal power (without any form of all powerful artifact), could use his matter manipulation powers to enlarge Juggernaut to 8 stories tall in lieu of overriding Juggs' Cytorrak granted abilities, that tactic goes right out the window.

The L.O.C.O.s then changed tactics (which was smart), but the new plan that Blair Wind adopted did not have any tangible on panel evidence for it to be used as a viable option. To claim that Shaman could infuse Kyle's GL Ring with magic in the same manner that Jade redirected the energies of the Starheart has no logical grounds. Besides the properties being completely different, there was no evidence shown that Jade could wield the powers of the Starheart indepently and/or offensively, if at all. There was also no evidence given that Shaman's telepathy was of such a great magnitude that it could overwhelm the Silver Surfer or Maxima under their normal powers, let alone enhanced with the protection of a GL Ring's Oan powers. Shaman's telepathy, while "mystical" in nature, is not a magic based attack or spell. It's similar to the telepathy that Stick (Daredevil's sensei) and/or Dr. Strange have (i.e. a greater level of awareness/extra sensory), and astral projection and or battling in astral form in itself was a banned tactic. I don't beleive Shaman or Kyle could teleport the rings off of the hands of the Caballeros either, as in their prep the Caballeros actually preprogrammed the rings to pemanently bond with the bearers hands.

The Cabalerros initial plan was not greatly deviated from and the consistency helped. They did have some holes in there argument as well:

-I don't believe they could harm Juggernaut aside from the sonic attacks, so a BFR or entrapment would be the only way to deal with him.
-I don't believe that they would be able to effect the air within Juggernaut's shield to make it toxic to Kyle and Shaman (had their team actually been able to enlarge Juggernaut, which they can't).
-I don't believe the memory download would be instantaneous for Maxima. Surfer is debatable because he does process things at light speed, but I do believe that this particular part of their plan would take more time (they did account for that by having Surfer erect a shield and reinforcing it, however).

Other than these and a few other holes (which were eventually covered), I beleive the Caballeros presented the better, and more coherrent, argument, which had more credible and substantial on panel support. B-Dub and newjak seemed to be on different pages for periods of time during the fight arguing points that the other had either abandoned or was not aware of being presented, and also, while you can argue extensions of a characters ability set and extrapolate possibile applications, it still has to at least be a reasonable extrapolation with some relevent on panel occurences as evidence to establish a working precedent. At least that is my personal criteria.

With all that taken into consideration:

my vote is for Leo and Kahn.

Blair Wind

L.O.C.O's= 1
CC's= 2

leonidas

muchos gracias, mi amigo.

sombrero2

newjak86

Originally posted by illadelph12
Ok, after reading and re-reading the entire battle 5 times to make sure I took all things into consideration and did not do a disservice to any and all parties invlolved, I have to give my vote to the Cosmic Cabalerros (Leo & Kahn).

The L.O.C.O.s put themselves in a major tactical bind with their initial plan by essentially trapping their team within Juggernaut during their prep, but due to the fact I actually have a working knowledge of all characters involved (and the rules), I was actually forced to disregard a majority of their initial plan because it revolved around a tactic I knew they could not perform. Juggernaut proved to be a huge liability in this battle. His abilities make it nigh impossible to power mesh or boost his attributes because his powers work essentially to negate any outside influences that do not supercede the protection Cytorrak provides. Unless it was a magic spell greater than Cytorrak's influence, Juggernaut would basically be immune to any form of matter manipulation or power augmentation, be it by friend or foe, and given that Thanos is the power limit, and I do not think Thanos, under his personal power (without any form of all powerful artifact), could use his matter manipulation powers to enlarge Juggernaut to 8 stories tall in lieu of overriding Juggs' Cytorrak granted abilities, that tactic goes right out the window.

The L.O.C.O.s then changed tactics (which was smart), but the new plan that Blair Wind adopted did not have any tangible on panel evidence for it to be used as a viable option. To claim that Shaman could infuse Kyle's GL Ring with magic in the same manner that Jade redirected the energies of the Starheart has no logical grounds. Besides the properties being completely different, there was no evidence shown that Jade could wield the powers of the Starheart indepently and/or offensively, if at all. There was also no evidence given that Shaman's telepathy was of such a great magnitude that it could overwhelm the Silver Surfer or Maxima under their normal powers, let alone enhanced with the protection of a GL Ring's Oan powers. Shaman's telepathy, while "mystical" in nature, is not a magic based attack or spell. It's similar to the telepathy that Stick (Daredevil's sensei) and/or Dr. Strange have (i.e. a greater level of awareness/extra sensory), and astral projection and or battling in astral form in itself was a banned tactic. I don't beleive Shaman or Kyle could teleport the rings off of the hands of the Caballeros either, as in their prep the Caballeros actually preprogrammed the rings to pemanently bond with the bearers hands.

The Cabalerros initial plan was not greatly deviated from and the consistency helped. They did have some holes in there argument as well:

-I don't believe they could harm Juggernaut aside from the sonic attacks, so a BFR or entrapment would be the only way to deal with him.
-I don't believe that they would be able to effect the air within Juggernaut's shield to make it toxic to Kyle and Shaman (had their team actually been able to enlarge Juggernaut, which they can't).
-I don't believe the memory download would be instantaneous for Maxima. Surfer is debatable because he does process things at light speed, but I do believe that this particular part of their plan would take more time (they did account for that by having Surfer erect a shield and reinforcing it, however).

Other than these and a few other holes (which were eventually covered), I beleive the Caballeros presented the better, and more coherrent, argument, which had more credible and substantial on panel support. B-Dub and newjak seemed to be on different pages for periods of time during the fight arguing points that the other had either abandoned or was not aware of being presented, and also, while you can argue extensions of a characters ability set and extrapolate possibile applications, it still has to at least be a reasonable extrapolation with some relevent on panel occurences as evidence to establish a working precedent. At least that is my personal criteria.

With all that taken into consideration:

my vote is for Leo and Kahn. You LIE

A.J

If only I could have got there in time to vote.

DigiMark007

AJ, they had it by more than 1 at midnight. Quit whining and spamming the battle thread.

Blair Wind

but by ten sunday....I believe WE had it by more than one

we should let mungi vote......

batdude123

Geez, what's up with x's and Validus' stuborness?

King_Mungi

Mungi special...Mungi special

Blair Wind

I make a move to have mungi be an extra judge

King_Mungi

Naaa...I didn't want to be a judge as I know Shaman like the back of my hand...oily and hairy

A.J

Originally posted by Blair Wind
I make a move to have mungi be an extra judge No me I didnt get to vote

Rols

Well all blame you if L.O.C.O.S team lost this match, i for one voted for the opposite .

Blair Wind

DigiMark007

Originally posted by A.J
No me I didnt get to vote

Yeah, we know. read my last post to you.

Blair Wind

Originally posted by Blair Wind
but by ten sunday....I believe WE had it by more than one

X? Val? Buddies? can we get a vote my friends? Its not so hard just go LOCO's for the win