Originally Posted by r3dshift
They are two entirely different game developer companies; I don't see how your comment fits in here?

I know it's different companies, and I wasn't implying that Illusion Softworks should make a Max Payne title, just that the 2 games are similar in some ways and have drawn comparisons from some people. Whenever someone mentions Mafia I always think of Max Payne and vice-versa.

i wasn't aware max payne was anything but linear. was there a game world to explore? i know they're supposed to have a good story, but it is a rollercoaster ride right? also wasn't max payne a rockstar game…yeah i'm not exactly their number one fan illusion softworks is great though and they need to come out with a game period as it's been a couple of years since the hidden and dangerous 2addon.

Both Max paynes were made by Remedy software not rockstar. and yes Max payne game is a rollercoaster ride, but it was meant to deliver a film noir story with a gameplay resembling hong kong action movies.

Personally I rate Mafia a bit higher than max payne because the storyline and more diverse gameplay, but on the otherhand Max payne is the tighest action game there is and gameplay never gets old. Whenever I want a solid action experience, I launch Max Payne.

They both have a similar look and feel as far as the gameplay mechanics and control are concerned, although I thought the control was much tighter in Max Payne. The stories of course are much different and yes, Max Payne was linear, but not in a bad way.

I think the only thing that Max Payne and Mafia have in common is that they are sold in a Maximum Underworld (gangstaaaahhhh d00d!!!111) package . Otherwise I'd find the Mafia = GTA in the 1930s comparison much more fitting than linking Mafia to Max Payne. Other than the underworld theme they barely have anything in common gameplay-wise.

Maybe we have different definitions of gameplay then. They both use a 3rd person camera view and a very similar aiming system. They both use the standard wasd control with a mouse look. They're both "shooters" primarily, with the ability to use some items. I'm not sure how that's barely anything in common.

*edit* Just to be more specific so you don't think I was trying to be an ass. To me, "gameplay" is the mechanics of the game, how you control your character and the physical actions you perform in the game. To me, the storyline and the setting\theme is seperate.

Originally Posted by JDR13
Maybe we have different definitions of gameplay then. They both use a 3rd person camera view and a very similar aiming system. They both use the standard wasd control with a mouse look. They're both "shooters" primarily, with the ability to use some items. I'm not sure how that's barely anything in common.

OK but that is not very specific. Of course games of a certain genre will always feature similarities in gameplay but the things you mentioned, i.e. 3rd person, aiming, WASD, mouse look and using items applies to pretty much every 3rd person shooter ever made (El Matador, Splinter Cell, Gears of War (OK when it comes to PC at least ) GTA, Mafia etc…).
So with those rather general or imprecise gameplay features we have a large pool of games to pick from. We have a high level of abstraction. In order to limit the pool we need to zoom in and take a closer look at more defining gameplay features and things that these games from our pool might have in common.
And if you do that then you'll find that playing as a character with criminal intents in a large open world and using cars, car-jacking is a thing that is only shared by GTA and Mafia. Thus I'd be willing to agree with curiously undead that Mafia = GTA (in the 1930s) is a more fitting comparison than Mafia vs Max Payne.
Of course, comparing Mafia to Max Payne isn't a wrong comparison but it's too abstract and too imprecise. There is a game with GTA that has more in common with Mafia than Max Payne so it would make a little more sense to draw the comparison between these two.

Having never really played GTA I can't comment on it, but I'm sure it does have more in common with Mafia than Max P does. I wasn't trying to imply that Max Payne had more in common than Mafia than any other game out there. I'm not a huge fan of 3rd person shooters and don't play very many of them, maybe that's a reason why Max Payne and Mafia remind me of each other. Max Payne is definitely way more similar to Mafia than El Matador, Splinter Cell, or Gears of War though so I'm not sure what the reference to those were about.

I am worried though, since Mafia had such a good story and character depth is it possible for Illusion to do it again and not just be another sequel?
They have made several games (Flying Heroes, Vietcong and H&D) none have had deep story and character depth, iirc.
Certainly H&D was a very good combat game but I don't recall anyone saying how in depth the story and characters were and certainly not with FH or Viet.

While Mafia was a very good game (one of my favorites) several problems held it back, including the ending

Spoiler

killing off most of the characters

, being forced to kill cops and not allowing save games, all of which are clearly the Developers call, at least in this case I can't see it as the publishers fault.

Secondly I think even Illusion see at least some of these things as mistakes, did you notice that the presumed protagonist looks almost exactly like Tommy if he would have been 20 instead of about 30 in the game, even though the game is 10 years later.
Maybe even though we know about the daughter Tommy had a son but how could he be 20 if this is just 10 years later?

I am hoping for the best and cautiously optimistic.

-- Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language…they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.