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Comment by 'Michael Arney' on Obama, coalition politics, and the struggle for reformshttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_86616
Sam,
I think this piece is fantastic. It ain't sexy, it doesn't call for simple, short answers, easy to achieve. It is sober thinking about the realities of what exists and the dialetics about getting from here to "there". Politics and radical reform is messy and complicated.Thu, 28 Mar 2013 22:29:14 -0400Michael Arneyhttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_86616Comment by 'bruce bostick' on Obama, coalition politics, and the struggle for reformshttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_76451
chris---
yes, what you say is correct, but (1) timing is everything in politics & (2) there are no new ideological questions, only the old ones that we debate again & again because we make the same mistakes over & over again!
It is easy to hit the nail on the head if the 'nail,' ideologically, is a straw man! The issue, at this point in our struggle is NOT 'we should be part of the coalition,' certainly at least not in my mind. 'We' already are & there are struggles across the nation, generally, again as Sam states mainly struggles against ongoing attacks on our people & mvmt. The point IS, at THIS time, what do we do, how do get out of the morass we're in, find a way to begin ton the corner toward the offensive.
Unfortunately, what I get from article is a failure to deal with this, the important issue for our mvmt, while continuing to discuss whether 'Obama is good, a reformer,' & how 'we should be part of the coalition.' I do not disagree here!
The area that Sam, in my opinion, deals with in an incorrect manner, is exactly the above. The question on the table NOW is where we need to go, &, again unfortunately, what I'm taking from Sam's piece is that 'we' (left, CP, people's mvmt) should NOT take the steps nessecary to move org'd labor to TAKE THE LEAD, help lead the way out for the entire mvmt. This takes more than being "part of the coalition." It means that we need to help wk with & push labor to take the leading role of leadiing the entire mvmt, bring fwd 'the property question' to bring all together, pointing the ideological direction for the whole mvmt, against capital, that can help move our nation from the ridiculous obcession w/the deficient & fight for our people's needs.
That leadership is NOT sectarian, but it needs to be more than 'part of the coalition.' If labor calls for a natl march, led by labor & allies, it could part 1-2 million in DC & begin to focus the mvmt. We need to look at the need for leadership & not continue to focus on just being there!Sat, 02 Mar 2013 14:01:51 -0500bruce bostickhttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_76451Comment by 'Chris' on Obama, coalition politics, and the struggle for reformshttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_74745
First, I don't have the take-away message that we're being 'urged to not work with labor...', etc.
The compelling reason I agree with Sams discussion is that in my experience, it is NOT "a given" that we need to "be part of the overall coalition, fighting for immediate aims." It is a fine line to put forth advanced demands while not distancing ourselves from immediate aims.Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:47:23 -0500Chrishttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_74745Comment by '' on Obama, coalition politics, and the struggle for reformshttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_68264
I've read & reread this piece, only to become more frustrated!
I certainly do agree that Obama is a "reformer" & that we need to fight to shift the balance of forces in a better, more pro-labor/people direction. We most assuredly need to be part of the overall coalition, fighting for immediate aims. That much is a given. However, I cannot figure out what the article offers in terms of leadership, where we need to go from here.
I take from this piece, & I hope I'm wrong, that we're being urged to not work with org'd labor, the people's movement, to try to find unifying ways to bring the whole movement together, to find ways to raise the ante in the fight against the right and the corporate enemy!
Marx spoke in the Manifesto of needing to "fight for the immediate aims of the working class," while also needing to "take care of the future of that movement." While fighting for the immediate aims, in this case mostly defensive struggles, as yet, the need is to "bring to the front, the property question." In this case the "property issue" is the right of workers to organize and the fight for good union jobs to rebuild our nation.
Obama did not just overlook labor in error, when he recognized in his SOTU speech, both 'Selma' & 'Stonewall,' but NOT 'Flint' or 'Youngstown.' While it was wonderful that those were brought fwd, it is only org'd labor that can speak to ALL working people and its goals be that of all of our nation. Org'd labor, our working class, while PART OF the overall alliance, is purposely pushed to the back by the corporate (liberal) forces in charge. This is not a reason, as some ultra-left & middle class folks would say, to break the alliance, but it absolutely IS an extremely important reason why labor MUST step forward in an independent manner, offering leadership in this tough and confusing time. Those on the legitimate left need to become practiced at that 'political art' Sam speaks of, in order to help labor find the unifying way to do so.
Furthermore, I would submit that when labor steps fwd, as they did in the New Deal period, the struggles become clearer, the goals better understood by all working people & the fight more mainstream. Leadership in how to be able to carry this out is badly needed in the people's struggle today! Wed, 20 Feb 2013 20:39:51 -0500http://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_68264Comment by 'jude' on Obama, coalition politics, and the struggle for reformshttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_68174
So why has gasoline prices have doubled since Obama took office? Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:58:30 -0500judehttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_68174Comment by 'Chris' on Obama, coalition politics, and the struggle for reformshttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_66988
Wish I had more time to elaborate, but I just want to say thank you, Sam. I agree and my experiences confirm your remarks.Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:35:18 -0500Chrishttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_66988Comment by 'Chris' on Obama, coalition politics, and the struggle for reformshttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_66980
I wish I had more time and energy to respond to Sam's article and the comments below. Suffice it to say I agree with the viewpoint Sam has expressed. While there is certainly a lot more to say on the subject, this is a point to develop our thinking and understanding of the times we live in. It certainly expresses my experiences. Many decades in the last half century could be considered "revolutionary" (just think of the 1990's, the massive demonstrations led by labor and in particular Jobs with Justice, not to mention WTO protest) based on the assessment that the Occupy movement in and of itself constitutes a revolutionary period. But, sadly, we are not there yet.Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:19:31 -0500Chrishttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_66980Comment by 'E.E.W. Clay' on Obama, coalition politics, and the struggle for reformshttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_65503
"Revolutionary periods", existed before Karl Marx's discovery of historical materialism, after which, they themselves were revolutionized.
Brother Sam, in many ways, sad and dismayed to inform you-but the age/period of OCCUPY IS a "revolutionary period", period.
Again, again, and again Karl Marx has drilled into us-it is not the consciousness of human beings that determines our reality-but our reality that determines our consciousness.
In other words, even though billions and billions of humans/workers on our planet do not think of themselves as revolutionaries, visionaries, socialists, and yes- communists, the activities of their very hands and brains qualify them, as they partake of the objective conditions of the age which the great W. E. B. Du Bois, way back in the dawn of the twentieth century proclaimed with uncanny prophecy and intelligence, even before reading Das Kapital, 1906-
"The morning breaks over the hills. Courage brothers! The battle for humanity is not lost or losing. The Slav is rising in his might, the yellow minions are testing their liberty, the Black Africans are writhing toward the light, and everywhere the laborer is opening the gates of opportunity and peace." This quote is from Gus Hall's response to Du Bois's 1961 application to the CPUSA.
In the binary and atomic age, after the very real revolutions, which we must build on, from the Atlantic Revolutions to the Arab Spring Revolutions, with labor becoming instantaneously more and more conscious of its power, this current period is a revolutionary period.
Lenin led a revolution in backward Russia in 1917 and proved with both John Reed's and W. E. B. Du Bois's approval, that statement written to head this comment:
Marxism revolutionized our conceptions of what revolutionary periods are.
You should know this and live this-if you do, we can't tell from this article.Fri, 15 Feb 2013 12:40:36 -0500E.E.W. Clayhttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_65503Comment by 'gary hicks' on Obama, coalition politics, and the struggle for reformshttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_65378
This analysis is very incomplete without a discussion of international and military policies of our country.Fri, 15 Feb 2013 03:23:43 -0500gary hickshttp://www.peoplesworld.org/obama-coalition-politics-and-the-struggle-for-reforms/#PageComment_65378