Emptying the Notebook: The history behind title No. 2; Hunter, meet Coco

We’re less than 24 hours from another parade. Yeah. But before we get to __________ (insert crazy parade anecdotes there), time to clear the champagne-soaked notebook (thanks, Belt) of all World Series-related facts and quotes.

— Thanks to Angel Pagan’s stolen base, today is free taco day at Taco Bell from 2 to 6 p.m. So there you go, if you’re into saving 89 cents. As Hunter Pence said, “Let the people eat!”

Pence, by the way, is going to be on Conan tonight. I would think that qualifies as CAN’T MISS.

— Pablo Sandoval’s selection as World Series MVP was unanimous, according to MLB. His .500 average was the ninth-best all-time in a World Series for a player with at least 15 at-bats.

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In all, Sandoval went 24 for 66 in the postseason with five doubles, six homers and 13 RBIs in 16 games. Probably in part because the Giants swept, he finished one hit shy of the postseason record for hits, held by three players. He did pass J.T. Snow (22) for the Giants postseason hits record.
Sandoval joined Barry Bonds and Rich Aurilia as the only players in franchise history to hit six homers in a postseason. Both of them did it in 2002.

In a series that had a decided Venezuelan flavor, Sandoval became the fourth Venezuelan to homer in a World Series game. Afterward, he joined several of the other Venezuelans and sent a taped message back to his home country. He’s the first ever Venezuelan-born World Series MVP.

— The Giants’ seven-game postseason winning streak was a season high and a franchise record. Yes, their longest winning stream of the season came in the NLCS and World Series.

— The Giants became the first team since the 1997 Marlins to clinch a title with an extra-innings win. Marco Scutaro had the game-winning hit this time around; who had it in 1997? One Edgar Renteria, future Giants hero.

— Sergio Romo became the seventh player to record three saves in a World Series

— A stat you surely could grasp while watching the games: The Giants were 10-1 in the postseason when scoring first.

— The Tigers swept the Yankees and then got swept. “I’m a little bit flabbergasted to be honest with you,” Jim Leyland said afterward. “It’s a freaky game and it happened, and so be it.

“Congratulations to Bruce Bochy and the Giants. Obviously there was no doubt about it, they swept us so there were certainly no bad breaks, no fluke. I tip my hat to them.”

— Bochy on Posey after Game 4: “As important as his (homer was), what he did behind the plate in the postseason helped get this pitching on track. He’s the one putting the fingers down and calling those games back there, and this pitching did an unbelievable job against a tough lineup. He’s special, and for him to come back off that injury shows you how tough he is. What a special talent that guy is.”

For those wondering, the MVP award gets announced November 15.

— Bochy was asked to hype himself up a bit after Game 4. He refused.

“I appreciate those comments, but again, I’m going to go back to the personnel. I’m going to keep going back to how unselfish (the players) were. I’ll mention names – Ryan Theriot did a great job for us and he becomes a role player. He didn’t say a word, didn’t complain, kept himself ready and ends up scoring the winning run.

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“Timmy, we put him in the bullpen and he didn’t waver on it. He said, ‘Sure, I just want to help the team win.’ We did the bullpen by committee and they didn’t care who closed the game. That’s the only way it gets done.

“Again, they played as a team and I’m thankful for that and thankful for their attitude.”

— Matt Cain made a great point in his postgame interview: Jeremy Affeldt really started dominating after he was nearly smoked by a foul ball in Cincinnati. In fact, Affeldt kept wearing a soft cast on his pitching wrist away from the mound – and kept dominating.

“It was kind of odd. It seemed like getting kind of oddly hurt in Cincinnati kind of benefitted him a little bit. I think he kind of started trusting his stuff. From then, he went out there with unbelievable stuff and really trusted his stuff.”

Ahhh, the magic of nearly getting hurt in an odd way. Again.

By the way, Affeldt got a chance last week to talk to Jayson Stark about not being No. 1 on his “strange injuries” list. Affeldt was No. 2 this year and wanted the top spot. He surely hopes he doesn’t get hurt again next year, but maybe Jayson can give him a lifetime achievement award or something.

— Cain on Scutaro getting one last clutch hit: “You kind of get worried when guys like that come up. You worry that maybe they’ve used them all up, and in the baseball god world, you wonder about that. But he had another one. He had one more left in him and it was the biggest one we needed.”

— What a year for Cain, huh? New contract … perfect game … All-Star game start … World Series championship. Wow.

It’ll end with a parade. For coverage of all the insanity, you can follow me on Twitter: @AlexPavlovic

I was just a spectator in 2010, but a word of advice: If you’re planning on taking public transportation, get on way, way, way before BART or CalTrains approaches San Francisco. The last few stations before the city turn into madhouses.

Also, it’s probably best to buy your BART tickets tonight. The longest lines in the morning are going to be for tickets. Don’t know if this will be the case again, but in 2010 my parents and siblings simply drove up from Cupertino and cruised into the city. So that might be an option, too.

I’m exhausted. Can’t imagine how wrung out the Giants and staff must be. This year has been like one long 7 month long set of on your fingertips pushups.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/defsa ClutchUp

Thanks Alex!

Did you author enough articles in 2010 and 2011 to still qualify as Rookie of the Year? Probably not…

Either WAY – you are now the MVP of this Blog. Thanks!

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/bascb ClutchUp

OK look, we all had friends, children, brothers and sisters who later in their teens or adulthood ‘still’ looked like their little kid pictures, but has there ever been ONE who facially looked identical as Crawls 35?

Torii Hunter is not a bad call Clutch. LF vet, you know he can still motor around. Turns 38 in July. A 5 mil deal would be a Sabean special, but he probably wants more since he had a such a great year and likes Anaheim.

http://nada paul in p.v.

Hunter’s a 1-yr. renta-LF – what’s the point?

Doesn’t the negotiation window on Melky close real soon??

http://nada paul in p.v.

Clutch – LOVE the Baby Brandon foto gracias!

http://nada paul in p.v.

Yes – 7 months of fingertip pushups… ;o)

Foothills Ryan

Hunter in left, Hunter in right. I like where this is going. A Brown – Shark platoon in center.

Keith Law believes the Pirates’ inability to raise their offer in order to sign Appel shows the flaws in the new system. I think he’s wrong, and that in reality the system is working perfectly. Why do I say that? Because there is almost no way Appel will ever see another offer approaching what either the Astors or the Pirates offered him. Seven teams already decided to pass on Appel this year. Even if he manages to avoid injury and have another excellent season at Stanford, Appel will re-enter the draft next year with even less leverage and a reputation for seeking an unreasonable bonus. Under the old system, the Yankees could take Appel 30th next year and give him $7 million. But under the new system there is nothing that points a way forward for Appel to receive the high seven figure bonus he seeks. Once it becomes clear that Appel made a terrible decision, I think it will be extremely rare to see players turning down slot money, and that was the goal of the new system.

&

Getting back to Law’s criticism of the new system, I think it’s emblematic of our general impatience when it comes to evaluating new policies. Most major policy changes require diverse groups of people to alter their behavior, and this takes time. As a result it often takes a few years to truly evaluate whether or not a policy is successful. But our culture is incapable of waiting, and that’s why you see people claiming that the new healthcare bill has failed two years before it’s really been implemented.

Keep’n It Real

Speaking of Boras…

It will be interesting to see how his nepotism-like working relationship with Mike Rizzo works in the long run. Boras has found a GM that bows to his every desire and Rizzo gets the best players in Boras’ stable of clients.

If Rizzo loses his job and/or the Nationals are dragged down by big contracts for non-performing Boras clients…the curtain might be raised on how these deals were made.

Foothills Ryan

That may be a logical proof that Keith Law is a Tea-Partier.

channelclemente

Foothills,

is it Kismet that the word “Patience” is such an integral component of successful baseball, both on and off the field.

ClutchUp

CC and others: In light of Clint Eastwoods movie Trouble with The Curve — being almost an opposite of Money Ball I give you a link regarding a young man that I saw play many times —but primarily on the Football Field.

Channel will get extreme pleasure out of the fact that it was Boston who made the ill advised choice of choosing him.

For those that saw/did not see Trouble with the Curve — Heh Heh Heh, even though Clints’ movie dragged – the ending made it all worth it.

(Plus Amy Adams)

channelclemente

The Dodgers say Greinke is looking for 5 years, $125MM. I’d do that deal, or certainly consider it if the Giants see him as a fit otherwise.

Sam

Clutch had posted a link and article by Bruce Jenkins. Here is an article refuting
Jenkins entire argument. You be the judge:

If you’re painting the Giants as some sort of anti-Moneyball team you’re delusional

Bruce Jenkins of the San Francisco Chronicle has a column today in which he praises the Giants for being a scout-based anti-Moneyball organization, claiming that they have no use for advanced analytics, that they base their decisions on “visual evidence” and that they are superior to “organizations cutting their scouting staffs and stocking computers.”

He then predictably paints a ridiculous caricature of statistical analysis and those who find value in it:

Numbers, they believe, tell the entire story – and their approach is worshiped by thousands of fans and bloggers who wouldn’t last five minutes in a ball-talk conversation with Tim Flannery, Mark Gardner or Ron Wotus.

Jenkins then goes on about the way the Giants put together their two-time World Series championship team, claiming that it’s all about old school scouting and experience and grit and all of that stuff and how the people who employ advanced analytical tools to build baseball teams have it all wrong.

It’s bad enough on its own, but it’s much worse when one realizes that Jenkins simply has his facts wrong. Dreadfully wrong. Wrong to the point of basic journalistic malpractice. Why? Because he doesn’t once mention the name Yeshayah Goldfarb. Who is Yeshayah Goldfarb? Glad you asked!

Goldfarb’s title is long and clunky: He’s the Giants’ director of minor league operations/quantitative analysis.

What that means is that Goldfarb had a role in just about every player personnel decision the Giants’ baseball operations department made to shape this year’s team — from past amateur drafts to in-season trades to off-season free-agent signings.

“He’s one of our ‘Moneyball’ guys, if you will,” Giants president Larry Baer said last week, alluding to the process of finding valuable players that other teams might overlook. “He does a lot of our really important analysis on player acquisitions.”

Goldfarb’s job, that 2010 article from JWeekly.com notes, is to “focus on taking a mountain of statistics and data and “putting it into a simple, understandable format for people that need the information.” And it’s not just some make-work job to satisfy some affirmative action for computer geeks requirement:

Goldfarb and his cohorts in analytics also were instrumental in re-signing Uribe before the season, trading for two relief pitchers in midseason (including lefty specialist Javier Lopez) and going after mid-season discards Burrell and Ross. He also helped convince officials to draft college stars Lincecum (2006) and Posey (2008).

That article is from 2010, so it describes the key, improbably useful pieces which helped the Giants win that title. Jenkins notes the similar improbably useful pieces that went into the 2012 title and would have you believe that it was all a bunch of lone wolf, Clint Eastwood scouts finding those guys. I have no doubt that the Giants’ scouting operation is top notch, but I’m willing to bet that Goldfarb — and his statistics — was every bit as important to the building of the 2012 champs as he was in 2010. Yet Jenkins doesn’t mention his name once and denies that his job function has a place on the San Francisco Giants.

The Giants President and CEO thinks this stuff is important. So too does the general manager. They both go out of their way to praise Goldfarb and the kind of work he does, crediting it with helping the team win a world championship. How, in light of that, people like Bruce Jenkins can write the literally counterfactual sorts of things like he wrote today is beyond me.

There is no baseball team that sees the world like Jenkins thinks the Giants see the world. There is likewise no baseball team that sees the world the way Jenkins’ caricature of statisticians sees the world. Every team uses advanced and often proprietary analysis. Every team has scouts and uses them. Yet for some reason Jenkins and his ilk continue to fight a false war on bad information. It boggles the mind.

CB the DodgerH8ter

In 2010 we drove up and parked on Townsend near the ball park and walked to the Civic Center from there. Hoping to do something similar this year and take a cab back after the Halloween festivities.

channelclemente

CU,

nice article, and you can add Michael Jordan to that list of want-to-be’s.

Hey, the Giants won it for the second time in three years. Wow! The seasons in the mid-’70′s of barely over half a million a year are so long ago. I mean, as recently as the ’97 division push vs. L.A. I can remember nights of 12,000 or so in the stands. This park, this front office, this mangerial and coaching staff have all made a huge difference, but, of course, it’s ultimately about the players.

Toward that end, I’ll mention someone from the ’07 team — a team that really was one of my least favorite Giant teams — it was sort of the anti-2012 team, a team about one player getting to an accomplishment — yes, an amazing accomplishment but still. Anyway, as some of you will remember Matt Morris was on the Giants for all of 2006 and for the better part of 2007. (Traded at the deadline to the Pirates for Rajai Davis.) You’ll probably also recall that Matt Cain has often said that Matt Morris was a mentor to him. Well, Morris probably greased the rails for his trade to Pittsburgh when he was quoted in 2007 as saying “What’s the goal here?”

Think about that for a moment, please. Whatever you think about # 25 it was only 5 years ago that the Giants had a big-league team on which one of its front-line pitchers felt a need to publicly ask if winning was the main goal. “What’s the goal here?” What a question to need one of your players to ask.

And now? The goal is to win. From 2010: you aren’t in shape AND you don’t hit: take a seat; you’ve won a Cy Young in the other league, but you can’t throw strikes in big moments: no post-season roster spot for you; and now, in 2012: Bruce Bochy is more right than ever when he says this is an unselfish group who is thinking about only winning for themselves, for each other, for this team. We could all cite our favorite examples from Ryan Theriot riding the bench but being ready for game 4, to Tim Lincecum dealing out of the bullpen, to the overall push by Scutaro and Pence and everyone to get beyond Melky and to excel when their backs were against the wall in two different series. It’s partculary gratifying to see what Pablo and Zito did in this post-season. There’s so much more to say, but how about this: even in those Matt Morris years, Matt Cain knew the goal really ought to be to win, and how sweet it is that he and Buster Posey, the Giants franchise player, really, really get this; the goal is to win. So, to a player long departed (who in fact will be more remembered as a Cardinal than a Giant) I say thanks, Matt Morris for reminding us of that.

Go Giants!

channelclemente

Sam,

like a lot of folks, they both assume there is statistical baseball, or not statistical baseball. It’s not an either or issue in my opinion. Statisticians have built classical model(s) to predict events well in time frames of 100′s of at bats, not dozens. If you’re going to offer a player $$$ on a multi-year contract and do it on the scouting and not sabermetrics, you’re a fool. If, however, you try to predict outcomes in short set of series with dozens of AB’s at best with a data set based on 500-600 ABs you’re on better ground, but still mistaken to say it’s reliable. What is missing, and yet to be compiled, is ways to look at predictive behavior by formulating a model that is predictive on small time scales. That’s why I keep pushing Bradley Woodrum’s stuff on Fangraphs. It’s not the answer, but the bridge between two or more event scales. The things Woodrum is measuring are the primary attributes coaching actually affects, not the secondary or tertiary ones common sumative stats like xFIP and wOBA measure, not to mention OPS, BA, ERA, etc.

Arguments like those Sam outlines between Jenkins and Statheads may sell copy, but are sort of beside the question if you’re serious about looking under the hood in baseball for possible quantitative answers or insights.

Foothills Ryan

CC,

The operative phrase is “Trust the process”.

—

& That’ too much dough for Greinke – or really any pitcher unless you are desperate for a front line pitcher to compete.

I believe the Giants should pursue low/moderate risk – moderate/high reward guys. Dan Haren may represent the best deal if he becomes available.

channelclemente

Foothills,

with the Giants, at AT&T and this clubs defense, Greinke is a 20-25 game winner. He leads MLB year after year in pitching metrics that are accentuated by the style of Giants play and situation they play in. Just that alone, makes him worth the $$$ today, especially with what we have in the cupboard, coming up, IMO. I admit, that’s a far cry from the kind of arguments that the Giants internally would have to make to enter such a negotiation. At the very least, they need to drive the price for Greinke high enough to cripple a NL West team who took a run at him.

Jonas

Alex, great job with the blog this year. You had big shoes to fill with Baggs and did an amazing job. Really, really hope you’ll be at it again next year.

Sam

When was the last time anybody won 25 games let alone a Giants starter won 25. The most I remember is Bill Swift winning 22 in 1993. Off the top of my head The Giants haven’t had a 20 game winner since Swift and Burkett in 93.

Keep’n It Real

Anibal Sanchez is a free agent SP. Would you consider him *and* what would you think is the $ he seeks?

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

Here is the thing that drives me nuts about a “sabermetric” approach,

No one seems to talk defense, which the best statistician nut jobs will tell you is very difficult to quantify numerically. Current measurements do a decent job, but the eye test over a long period is going to be needed no matter what.

Just look at Crawford and his early errors on simple plays. Even with them, he was also making ridiculous range plays that would have been hits with other SS. Kinda balanced out, and when he finally focused on the easy plays, whoa . . .

Why does this matter?

The basic conclusion of sabermetrics is “Don’t give away outs,” correct? But this is only thinking in terms of offense. The Moneyball movie went as far as to say defense didn’t even matter.

Obviously, if “not giving up outs” on offense is important, TAKING OUTS while on defense is just as important!

If people don’t finally start seeing this after this great run, there is no help for them.

Foothills Ryan

20-25 wins for Greinke?

Can I fertilize my roses with that?

I know what you mean, but is his xFIP that much lower than Cain or Bumgarner. His WHIP was higher than Cain’s. K rate pretty close, etc. I don’t see it. I like him because he’s the best available, but that is more risk than the Giants should shoulder on top of the risk they already have.

Anibal Sanchez is about the upper end of risk they should take on. Kyle Lohse might be a good fit too. Nor Cal.

Greinke appear to be in regression. Sanchez and Lohse seem to have figured out how to pitch in the low 90′s.

Foothills Ryan

Anibal Sanchez may be in the 5/75-80 ballbark.

Perhaps Lohse goes for 3/45.

I dunno. Just guessing.

channelclemente

Sam, Foothills,

it’s my opinion, nonetheless. He, Vogelsong, Cain could be a threesome not seen since Louis the XIII and the Three Musketeers.

channelclemente

Foothills,

a comparison of Musketeers and their companions. There isn’t any regression among the Musketeers, but the attendants is another story.

Sam, after I linked Jenkins’ article and then Footy responded, I wrote this below clearly highlighting those employees that do all the analysis for the SF Giants. That’s been out in the open and Jenkins knows that. I think he was repping and giving props to the core of Sabean’s root-beliefs.

The answer lies somewhere in the middle. Stats by themselves never told what Scutaro had to offer after his acquisition, thus my point is that the Giants advance scouts that might have been following Marco or that watched him play with his five other teams probably had more to offer using the eye test rather than all the statistics that have been accrued over the Scutaro career.

I’ve followed Calcaterra @ Hardball Times for years where they’ve had a large stable of contributors and back in ’10 Brattain (RIP) authored some dicey stuff.

I’ll continue to follow Jenkins and trust his acumen knowing what I wrote above that the Eye Test and Saber Worlds are both important. Growing up around SF reading Bob Stevens, Wells Twombley and Leonard Koppett write about baseball and other sports and Jenkins adds the same day to day sense as those three mentioned above.

Foothills Ryan

Who plays the role of D’Artagnan ?

Lefty

I think $25 mil./yr is insane for Greinke. That’s more than Sabathia or Cliff Lee or Hamels or Cain. I would take Lohse or Sanchez for what Foothills Ryan just said, but I don’t think the Giants are buying starters…even though I agree that it wouldn’t be a bad move for the future.

Anibal is 28. Add him to Cain and Bumgarner for at least five years. You have Vogey for two more years if you want him; same with Zito. Lots of pitching prospects in the system. Turn some of those into outfield prospects or corner infielder prospects…and off you go for years to come.

channelclemente says: October 30th, 2012 at 2:34 pm 23..The Dodgers say Greinke is looking for 5 years, $125MM. I’d do that deal, or certainly consider it if the Giants see him as a fit otherwise.

CC, I think you are smitten 8)

@ Foothills: There is zero chance Lohse comes this way to SF. The REAL last opportunity for a pitcher outside of Sabeans Pitching Comfort Zone who had a chance was Jeff Suppan. Suppan moved on and Vogey chose to go to Fresno, then Zito sprained his foot and Vogey became THE story of 2011 and now.

channelclemente

CU,

you look at the Fangraph link, and, to borrow a phrase, tell me he doesn’t look statistically like a brother from another mother to Cain and Vogelsong.

Maybe it is something about medical devices that helps Affeldt out. When he was injured by his son earlier this season, he had to wear a brace on his knee and he found that it helped him stay consistent in his mechanics. Maybe this did a similar thing for him.

Keep’n It Real

Heck with sabermetrics…we now have leftymetrics. “Teddy bear cute” and “Angel Pagan hot”.

Sonia H

Lefty says:
Anibal is 28. Add him to Cain and Bumgarner for at least five years. You have Vogey for two more years if you want him; same with Zito. Lots of pitching prospects in the system.

That means no Timmy in the rotation? Cool.

So when is my Adorable Timmy getting traded? Because he is going to get traded, right?

Since you guys dont even consider him as part of the team.

The Giants have to eat part of his salary to get rid of him? right? since he is worthless to you guys.

Indeed, Giants have to lose money to move him, and because it is their fault, they should not complain. You guys get nothing in return… ok, yeah, maybe an unknown prospect, but, whatever.

My Timmy deserves a fresh start somewhere else and I can only hope that trade comes in the offseason.

BTW, boring WS, no wonder the ratings were so low.

channelclemente

I really think, unless Lincecum finds a clue in the off season, he has to give serious thought to the “Eckersley” model.

Most importantly, we have five starters signed up for 2013: Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Vogelsong, Zito. Four I wouldn’t trade, one is untradeable and, moreover, too valuable to just DFA. Even if we wanted to trade Bumgarner or Cain – the only ones that another team would take – I would rather have them than Greinke. Also, the Giants don’t have the budget right now to sign Greinke, particularly if he wants $25M per season.

He is a moot point.

http://craigcalcaterra.blogspot.com/ ClutchUp

Along the lines of Obsessive’s post, Affeldt in trying to convince Mama Bear Wife Larisa that having their three kids when they did is the key to any trip to the WS. While nudging her about one for 2013, MamaBear Affeldt said “find another way”

Also anybody who saw the Bouncy-Bouncy goings on around the mound after Romo’s K3 to Cabrera had to have seen Belt true to form doing pogo jumps with all around him celebrating wildly but NOBODY resembled our goofy and awkward BB9.

If you ever feel the need to do investigative reporting, there are a number of mysteries that still needs to be solved (at least from Giants fans viewpoint).

One is: who is responsible for the Pierzynski trade? I nearly blew my top when it was reported that he said “Once a Giant, always a Giant”, he is such a piece of work! Magawan famously said in an interview that had the trade been run by him, he would have vetoed it. Presumably, Sabean should know to do that, suggesting that it was someone else who did the trade in the Giants name. Was it Sabean or was it someone else?

Or, who was the one who wanted the Rowand signing? It has been revealed already that it was Magowan who pushed for the Zito signing. That, to me, suggests that it was Magawan who pushed for the Rowand signing as well, seems very similar to me. Or was it Sabean?

Thanks again for the great season, look forward to many more!

channelclemente

To be honest, it’s the LaRussa model of Eckersley, as used by Righetti on Lincecum.

Sonia H

Also, I forgot to add, Cain was kind of crappy in the post season. Pretty average.

And I hope Lincecum finds a clue for the benefit of another team, certainly not the Giants.

Brian Sabean said that Lincecum needs to be smacked down, or something like that, and that he needs to pitch to contact. Uh.

Timmy really needs to ask for a trade and get away form these guys, they are determined to screw him. This is not about money. The confidence is broken on both sides.

What will probably happen: Greinke will resign with the Angels. Just like Peave has done with the White Sox.

Hey, but you guys can still get Ervin Santana.

Foothills Ryan

Nice call Willy. The Rags Model. As used by Billy Martin? Who was the manager of the Yankees then?

Foothills Ryan

Sonia H is all over it. Peavy off the table.

http://craigcalcaterra.blogspot.com/ ClutchUp

The Wisdom Cow says: October 30th, 2012 at 3:30 pm 32..

+++++++++++++
+++++++++++++
+++++++++++++

Even good baseball men who know the saber world is important could not stand the Money Ball MOVIE – even granting all the hollywood liberties that are allowed to spin a yarn. In that sense Trouble with the Curve was much more believable.

Art Howe and Tony Larussa thought the movie potrayal was absurd. In fact the Scout Grady Fuson scene was pure bunk as he was made to be the obstinate scout fired by Beane after a heated shouting match. Fuson was never fired by Beane – he went to the Rangers and has since returned.

I think that Billy Martin was manager of the Yanks when Rags converted from starter to reliever, but I could be wrong about that. Seems like Rags would be a good guy to help Timmy with that transition though, if they really wanted him to go to the ‘pen permanently.

His problem is that he first gained all that weight for 2011, then dropped all that weight for 2012. That screwed up his mechanics, that screwed up his confidence, that screwed up his stamina.

He had a horrible first half, but straightened himself out during the All-Star break, and had a 3.09 ERA after the break, until his last two games, when, I would guess, his stamina ran out.

That makes sense based on his playoff results. With rest, he was his normal dominating self. But for his start, he only had 3 days rest between relieving and starting, and that wasn’t enough, he was not able to dominate, as he had to hold back some in reserve so that he can last deeper in his start. Then once he went back to being a reliever who could throw hard until he’s tired, he was fine.

So, hopefully, he will find a qualified fitness trainer and nutritionist to help him get into proper, professional shape for 2013, and in any case, not yo-yo his weight around. That should put him into good shape for 2013 where he can start the year in good strong shape, and do well again. Maybe not Cy Young well, but if he can be as good as he was in the second half – 3.09 ERA until he ran out of gas for his last two starts of the season – that is more than good enough to be one of the leaders on our staff. He would also have the stamina to pitch well in the playoffs.

Whoa, Cain not good? He had a 3.60 ERA in the playoffs this season, 20 K’s to 6 BB’s, a great 3.3 K/BB ratio that top pitchers do.

Overall, Cain has a 1.84 ERA in the World Series, 2.10 ERA in two playoffs.

For comparison, Verlander now has a 7.20 ERA in the World Series, and a 4.22 ERA in two playoffs.

But at least the Tigers made it to the playoffs after signing their big whale: the Angels signed a number of big money players, plus had possibly the best rookie season ever, and they couldn’t even make the playoffs, it was pretty funny how the A’s just pulled the rug from under them so easily.

And the Giants management love Lincecum, he’s not going anywhere, as long as he’s not asking for the moon, and even if he is, he’s signed for 2013 and not going anywhere next season, the Giants are defending World Champs!

Cain may have been an average starter in the post season, I can see that I guess, but.

If what you say is true, then Timmy SUCKED as a starter in the post season.

I’d love to see him stay if he could get back to where he used to pitch and take care of himself in the off season. If he does get traded i’d expect him to go to some team that doesn’t do well and for next to no prospects or value.

Right now his only value is as a reliever (if he does this off season what he did the last off season)…

He was lights out out of the pen.

Here are the post season pitching stats, although I must warn you the facts may make you a bit uncomfortable since they make your fav look really bad.

Giants don’t need to trade Timmy. He plays out the contract, Gisnts make qualifying offer next offseason, if he declines you get a sandwich pick in the 2014 draft, which will be a better prospect than you will get for a trade right now at 22 mil.

ClutchUp

obsessivegiantscompulsive says:
October 30th, 2012 at 4:58 pm 66..Sonia, don’t listen to the people here. Lincecum is going nowhere.

OBsessive: NOBODY has told SoniaH that 55 is going anywhere. Catch yourself up to date and READ “her” past posts. Doubtful even that “she” is a “she”.

You and your own site are TOO GOOD to be dragged into ‘her’ or ‘his’ schtick. Just ask Bapah about Sonia “H”.

http://nada paul in p.v.

Is not The Melky Issue on the table right now? Like, within 5 days??

Lefty

I have loved Timmy all along. My favorite Giants memory is of him pitching Game 5 of the 2010 World Series. I’ve probably watched that game all the way through at least ten times. I have tremendous respect for what he did in this postseason. It didn’t surprise me a bit that he was so good. We all know how good he is. But for him to embrace the role and become such a deadly X factor–well, that shows character and maturity and team spirit.

None of us knows what will happen. We’ve been told by Sabean that he’ll be a Giant next year and by Bochy that he’ll be a starter. Will he regain his form as a starter? Will there be mutual interest in a new contract, and will they work it out? Or will he be gone after 2013?

Righetti threw his NO NO on the fourth of July for Billy in 1983 but pitched out of the pen in 1984 for Yogi due to a supposed excess of starters and replaced Gossage as the closer. His first game as a relief pitcher came with the bases loaded and Rags did not allow an inherited runner to score, retiring the final seven batters of that game.

Rags averaged 32 saves per over the next 7 yrs … and was named an Allstar in ’86 and ’87.

Billy managed the Yanks = 1975-1978, in 1979 and 1983, ’85 and ’88.

dgg

Sonia or whoever you are:

This is tiresome. Go away.

ClutchUp

Here is your SF Giants Starting Pitchers for 2013 Alphabetically

Bumgarner, Cain, Lincecum, Vogelsong and Zito.

Where is everybody coming up with other ideas

Sonia H

ClutchUp says:
NOBODY has told SoniaH that 55 is going anywhere. Catch yourself up to date and READ “her” past posts. Doubtful even that “she” is a “she”.

Nobody has to tell me that 55 is not liked on this blog. It is obvious by reading.

And dude, I’m a female, but whatever you want me to be…oh yes, you accused me of being Chris Lincecum, remember? ha ha ha

JD4SF

For those who can’t make it to the Parade, CSN-BA TV coverage starts at 10:30am.

I checked out the MLB stats page yesterday. Those are the stats for Tim’s one start in the postseason. And you’re right. They’re not good. But there’s a drop-down menu at the top of the stats page. You have the page set on: “Starter”

When you click “Reliever” in the drop-down menu, you get a different set of stats. And they’re good. There are stats on all the relievers and they’re interesting:

Affeldt: 10 Games, 10.1 IP, 3 SO, 0.00 ERA

Lincecum: 5 Games, 13.0 IP, 17 SO, 0.69 ERA

Romo: 10 Games, 10.2 IP, 9 SO (one very famous!), 0.84 ERA

Casilla: 11 Games, 7.0 IP, 8 SO, 1.29 ERA

Casilla, Romo, Tim each won 1 game.

Sam

Sabean definitely pushed for Rowand. He is a Sabean type of free agent signing, meaning old, overpaid, and underperforming.

Sam

From Baggs Twitter:

@CSNBaggs: The Dodgers gave RP Brandon League $7.1 million AAV times three years. So Jeremy Affeldt’s having a nice little pre-parade celebration.

Foothills Ryan

Great posts OGC.

Nice analysis as well, Sam.

Right on Clutch & Lefty.

—

Lincecum is in the rotation and the Giants are not pursuing a multi-year free agent pitcher. Maybe they’ll wait for an arm to fall in their lap just before spring training. Sabean is in the perfect position to wait out the market. Why wouldn’t a good pitcher following an off year or recovering from injury want to come to San Francisco to put up some good numbers while playing for the defending World Champs?

Here’s an early candidate. Dallas Braden. Wilson’s buddy. Perfect game on the resume!?!

–

Paul, correcto. They’ve got a decision to make on Melky. I assume they already made a decision and it’s just a matter of whether or not they put together a contract offer or not. Otherwise it’s off to free agency for Melky. Back to the Yankees is a good guess.

dgg

“Alphabetically.” I just now got that, CU.

channelclemente

Foothills,

it’s actually the Mets and Phillies that are in Cabrera’s basement apparently.

dgg

New blog by Alex.

Foothills Ryan

I think that Peavy deal looks good. I could’ve seen him go for 3/45 as a free agent. They’re paying about 3mil less.

Enter Scott Feldman as a Sabean target. Swing man potential. He had a 9+mil option declined.

Obrother

Sonia H- Timmy isn’t going anywhere in 2013. The Giants fans a d players love Timmy. Timmy loves the Giants. He’ll get into a better off season workout regimen and won’t lose like 25 pounds along with some strength and come back a better player. I’m not sure where you get your information ( you seemed to have toned it down) but Timmy and the Giants will be fine together in 2013. Not sure if your a troll or really believe what your saying but the Giants won the WS and Timmy was a big part of it and in reality pitched as many innings as if started a game and a half. Did you even look at any of Timmy’s post season pics or read any of his stuff. He’s clearly happy with his role in the 2012 Giants Post Season. Enough said Sonia enjoy the W S post activities.

ClutchUp

OMG, Sonia – you do a diservice to other females on this site whose baseball acumen, baseball IQ and their own special way of authoring their own SF Giants thoughts. You on the other hand do nothing but rant about ONE player who you went and accused at least the fans here of not caring for 55. When Lefty took her time to show you where and how much you were wrong – you still did not take the hint, turning your thoughts to another erronious charge of the team, manager, general manager not caring for 55. That too is a categorical LIE. Once Bob Nightengale whored himself out when nerves were raw and got Chris Lincecum to say some outrages things after 55 got lit up on a Tony Gwynn Jr’s bases loaded RBI, when Chris said something like the Giants had outfielders in the wrong position. To dad Chris’s credit – he went underground and hasnt been heard of since.

Nightengale/USA today on the other hand embarrassed himself when he predicted that the Tigers would thrash the Giants.

Get your facts straight, I never accused you of being Tim’s Father, i just accused you of being a very NEEDY little troll who does not have any TIMING to ‘her’ posts, seemingly not concerned with that the TEAM just went to post season winning the NLDS, the NLCS and the World Series having been on the brink of elimnation the first two series. You are prostituting you own agenda at the expense of the intelligence of those who are enjoying the recent TEAM accomplishment.

Bapah

obsessivegiantscompulsive, are you just an idiot or are you just trying to drum up business for your blog? First, just get your facts right, second, you’re talking to trolls- sonia H, is…who knows, really?

Sam: I think the current word for Sabean might be WAS, doubtful after Rowand, Dave Roberts, Bill Hall, Miggy and Ocab that we will see that type of same transaction, but yea….

Bapah

Nice bit of writing, CC, way back there a bit. You ought to write more on technology and stix.

Bapah

Sam, Sabes is always looking for the Scoots/Theriot types for Bruce. Sometimes he gets the Ocab type instead. He also has a very forward looking attitude about selecting & developing young talent. Plus, he’s respected by most other organizations. is Rizzo more your cup of tea?

Bapah

I’m watching Game 4 on MLB and Scutaro needs to be next Giants batting coach.

Bapah

I haven’t read all of the posts above, but wasn’t the Raggs Model:
Starter>Reliever>Closer?
Also, hasn’t it been told by many in the business that Tim is a born closer?

Jstreet

For some reason, SoniH reminds me of the Neil Young/CrazyHorse classic -”Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere.” ..she’s probably not even a she, more like an “it.”