I know what you mean about these things feeling brown. It's really quite overwhelming and hard to put the effort into for what seems like little reward. All I can say is that it picks up again big time towards the end of book 5.

My problem is that it was a shitty reward not worth waiting 10 years for. I'm not wasting my time re-reading all the previous books every time a new one comes out because it's simply been so long I forgot all the minor details. I did it once and it wasn't worth it, I'm not doing it again in 2015 and 2019.

Whoa. Did you guess that or run the numbers? I got exactly the same years.

1. A Game of Thrones 807 (704 hardcover) August 1996[4]2. A Clash of Kings 969 (784 hardcover) February 1999[5]3. A Storm of Swords 1128 (992 hardcover) November 2000[6]4. A Feast for Crows 976 (784 hardcover) November 2005[7]5. A Dance with Dragons 1136[8] (959 hardcover) July 2011[9]

Which leaves us with a very consistent 30 pages/month average. And that's being generous, because the monthly average was much higher in 1994 - 2000 (40 pages/month) than in 2000 - 2011 (16 pages/month).

So, yeah. 2015 and 2019, if what GRRM claims about the next book taking less time to write is accurate.

Whoa. Did you guess that or run the numbers? I got exactly the same years.

You don't exactly need a PhD in mathematics to work that out BTW A Clash of Kings was released in Nov 1998 in the UK, so it was only 2 years between each of the first three books. After A Storm of Swords he went back to his Wildcard series - as a fucking editor only, not even as an author - and that contribute to the 5 year way. I don't think ANYONE has a clue why A Dance with Dragons took so long, especially since the final page of Crows says "It's almost done!"

Whoa. Did you guess that or run the numbers? I got exactly the same years.

You don't exactly need a PhD in mathematics to work that out BTW A Clash of Kings was released in Nov 1998 in the UK, so it was only 2 years between each of the first three books. After A Storm of Swords he went back to his Wildcard series - as a fucking editor only, not even as an author - and that contribute to the 5 year way. I don't think ANYONE has a clue why A Dance with Dragons took so long, especially since the final page of Crows says "It's almost done!"

He talked about it quite a bit on his blog. If you really want to know why he had lost enthusiasm for the series and why he regained it, it's all there. If you were a fan of Lost you might it find it very interesting reading.

I thought during the last meeting Bran was presiding over they cut to a mysterious looking guy - was that not Jojen?

I've heard that they're not cast in season 2. They'll need to be in season 3, right?! How else is Bran supposed to learn anything...I know they've been having Osha fill the role for now, but seriously. And they have to split up, so we can all go on forgetting about Rickon.

I thought during the last meeting Bran was presiding over they cut to a mysterious looking guy - was that not Jojen?

I've heard that they're not cast in season 2. They'll need to be in season 3, right?! How else is Bran supposed to learn anything...I know they've been having Osha fill the role for now, but seriously. And they have to split up, so we can all go on forgetting about Rickon.

I don't remember...I thought the dream about Winterfell being flooded was discussed with Jojen, though...For a TV show it may make sense to stop adding new characters if they can avoid it by providing whatever explanation information in another way. As long as the overall plot is not impacted it would be similar to leaving out Bombadil from LoTR.

One thing I've noticed is that John Snow seems a LOT more incompetent and vain in the TV series than he did (to me atleast) in the early books. Maybe that is because I wanted to feel like he was maturing and would grow into a good leader of the Night's Watch. Since the directors know how the story eventually ends, I wonder if there will be more people left out or given slightly different treatment. Seems like this is an opportunity to do a better job with editing and character development...

I thought during the last meeting Bran was presiding over they cut to a mysterious looking guy - was that not Jojen?

I've heard that they're not cast in season 2. They'll need to be in season 3, right?! How else is Bran supposed to learn anything...I know they've been having Osha fill the role for now, but seriously. And they have to split up, so we can all go on forgetting about Rickon.

Nevermind me, it was Osha. That's what I get for watching it on an iPad after a long day. =P

For a TV show it may make sense to stop adding new characters if they can avoid it by providing whatever explanation information in another way. As long as the overall plot is not impacted it would be similar to leaving out Bombadil from LoTR.

I'd be okay with this. But my experience is a bit colored by the fact that I had Ned Stark's fate spoiled when I went looking online for a family tree chart just to keep people straight. Considering how I did this for the GoT book, and the character list has grown exponentially since then, any productive way to cull down that list for the show is something I'd appreciate. Plus, I'm sure it would hold down production costs.

As for getting rid of Meera and Jojen, I think they could probably do it with minimal damage, by way of making Osha go with Bran. The dream interpretation thing this last episode already took away a big part of Jojen's role. I could easily see them expanding that part in Osha's character. The main issues are, of course, finding a replacement to take Rickon, and the possibility that Meera ends up being Bran's love interest. But considering how Bran seems destined to be one with a tree root soon, that's probably not so much an issue.

You can't kill him. What if he becomes part of the story in later books? I doubt that he's totally forgotten, if for the fact that he's with Osha, and everyone likes Osha.

Even if he does show up in the next book it's unlikely he is a pivotal character. The book series has gotten so dispersed and long that many minor characters, quests, etc. could be merged into composites and serve the same purpose. This would be especially helpful for a TV series.

So, any commentary on the way the show is diverting? I keep meaning to see if Arya's kill list is the same, and I could swear the castellan was drowned in the book after the battle with the original Reek.

I'm fine with the changes. I just remind myself that GRRM is very involved in the story process. So any changes made now aren't going to spell trouble in the future, and have his blessing. The dragons being stolen actually make a whole lot more sense to me than the fact that there was never really any serious play for them in the books. These are the most valuable things in the world, and at this point in the story, Dany is highly vulnerable. So why no one in the books did a "oh, you have dragons? Yoink! Now I have dragons!" always bugged me.

I don't think that Arya and Tywin were even remotely this close in the books, but I like the interactions too. It's allowing a lot more time to flesh out who Tywin is.

I'm thinking the Reed kids are definitely cut now, in favor of Osha taking Bran north. I'm also fine with this. Come to think of it, Osha should have been the one taking Bran north anyway. She's the wildling from the north, so she was certainly better equipped for the trip, over a couple of kids from swamplands. No idea how they break Rickon from them now though.

I've thought about re-reading all of the books but I can never bring myself to actually do it. I worry though that I'll start to lose to memory the differences between the books and the show when it comes time to read the next book. In ten years.

I've fallen back to frequent references to various wikis. Since I've read all the books now, I know I'm not going to spoil anything. But it helps me zone right in on a specific person or event, rather than relying on my memory, or having to slog through an entire book again (and probably forget 3/4 of the stuff all over again).

So by this time in the show Bran is out of Winterfell and not in the crypts yet? I'm a bit lost now as they are not following the timeline I became acquainted with years ago waiting for fat man to get with it.

Also, the screen time of Roose seems a bit low for how important he is in the coming episodes/chapters. When does he get to collude with Twyin?

Also, the screen time of Roose seems a bit low for how important he is in the coming episodes/chapters. When does he get to collude with Twyin?

I think that gets resolved next episode (spoilered, in case anyone avoids the previews):

Spoiler: show

IIRC, the preview shows Roose talking with Jaime. I'm guessing that they alter the collusion to have it happen with Jaime, not Tywin. Although that might have issues later, as this would assume that Jaime had a hand in plotting the Red Wedding, which he clearly had an honor issue with later in the books.

If they skip the froggy twins, then will we even see the children of the forest angle? Or I guess they could just drop that on Osha as well. It just blows me away that we are so close to the end of the season, and it is likely that the RW will happen! My wife is going to crap her drawers.

Also, the screen time of Roose seems a bit low for how important he is in the coming episodes/chapters. When does he get to collude with Twyin?

I think that gets resolved next episode (spoilered, in case anyone avoids the previews):

Spoiler: show

IIRC, the preview shows Roose talking with Jaime. I'm guessing that they alter the collusion to have it happen with Jaime, not Tywin. Although that might have issues later, as this would assume that Jaime had a hand in plotting the Red Wedding, which he clearly had an honor issue with later in the books.

Spoiler: show

Roose and Jaime talk in the books. Their conversation ends with Roose saying "Give my regards to Tywin" and Jaime says "Give my regards to Robb." That's why Roose says "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" when he stabs Robb in the heart.

I can't see any way that they can have Jaime collude with Roose Bolton / Freys without dramatically changing his storyline for the coming seasons. The audience needs to accept Jaime's redemption, and having him involved in the Red Wedding will scrap any chance of that happening.

It's entirely possible they might go down that road, of course, but it would lock in Jaime squarely as a bad guy.

Is the omission of the Reed kids mean the ultimate omission of clarifying who Jon Snow's real parents are? I don't mind them being taken out, but Howland Reed being the only one with need that rescued Lyanna leaves a lot of information out of the show that I think needs to be addressed.

I'll stand annoying swamp kids to get some clarification from the Reed house.

Have they even addressed much of anything about Lyanna in the show, besides the fact that she died prematurely, and that Robert blamed Rhaegar? Seems that they've left themselves open to some massive retconning of how Ned found her, and who had knowledge of that incident. I mean, in theory, Brandon could find out once he's with the Children of the Forest and can see past events.

Maybe its us reading too much into it, but in the show I get that they aren't making that big of a deal out of who Jon's parents are. In the book it was like a giant shadow hanging over the entire book.