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I've got a huge problem at home, that for you guys probably will seem like pretty small fry as far as poly/mono dilemmas go (because I'm not asking for another person to move in with us). I'm new to understanding poly and I feel like I have found what truly lines up with the way I think, feel, and believe, however my fiance is "mono wired" and getting destroyed by me talking about it and trying to peddle it to her.

I'm trying to be honest and open with my feelings to her, and everytime she sees it as a threat to her instead of just listening to my feelings and thoughts, and ends up broken down crying, or non-communicative than screaming in frustrations. She just told me "seriously" that I have two weeks to stop thinking like this and acting like this or she's taking our new 4-month old baby and leaving me.

My biggest question here to all of you will be "What ideas for compromise can she and I come to?" I am totally new to this, and I don't have a clue as to the solutions for a mono-wired poly-wired union.

THE BACKSTORY:

She is Latina from Central America (yeah I know, talk about ancient beliefs).

I am from Hollywood, CA (yeah I know, free thinking lala land).

During the course of our relationship I learned Spanish and she learned English. We used online translation through that process and before.

Ok, so, when we first met over a year ago, I told her I wanted her to play with other girls, and that I'd like to "have fun like that". She said that would be cool, and that she kissed another girl once and liked it, it made her horny.

So we continued to fall in love, she moved in, we got pregnant, we moved to an island in the Caribbean, whilst never exploring all that. We planned on getting married, and we've recently engaged, but I call her my wife. I have been in a marriage before, and a few other long term relationships, and I treat her as my wife, so I call her my wife. But we are to be married in a few months.

SO THEN WE ADDED A GIRL TO THE MIX:
Ok, so here on the Island in the Caribbean are a ton of beautiful girls in bikinis who are interested in me, and that really activated my desires to start experimenting with playing with one who would be interested in playing with both of us.

She totally agreed, and through the process of flirting with about 20 girls, I found 1 who was into it. So we all three became friends and talked about playing one night, getting in the hot tub and having fun in our bedroom. We met to get to know each other and it turned into us all touching each other and cuddling in bed and kissing each other, and we all liked it even though since it was new to us all, we were all nervous. But we liked it and we agreed to have her spend the night one night. I let my wife and the girl go to a local nightclub one night and they had a blast and came home but the other girl had to leave because her sister was going to rat her out, whatever.

So sleeping together hasn't happened yet, for various logistical reasons, which always felt like excuses to me. So I kept pressing it, because I didn't want it to become thin air

ADD NEW LIFESTYLE IDEAS TO THE MIX (for adding crazy pressure):
So then we started watching THE GIRLS NEXT DOOR, POLYAMORY (The Showtime Show), and reading about that lifestyle and I completely realized that was for me and that here on the island I could easily go so far as to setup a kind of den of girls if I wanted to. It'd be very easy down here to do that.

I started talking about that to her, and she didn't find it fun, or funny, or anything, and all the different shows we were watching, and talking to the new girl, finally has caused her to have what I see as a NERVOUS BREAKDOWN almost. Trembling fear.

She sabotaged our building relationship with the new girl, she called her and told her she can't handle it. So now the new girl is never going to feel secure in trying that with her.

THE PROBLEM IS:
She wants to spend the rest of her life with me, but now she is giving me an ultimatum: "stop flirting with girls or I"m leaving you. You have 2 weeks to quit it." I told her that utlimatums are not a mature way to handle a relationship, and that we should reach that conclusion together by talking everything through.

She said she would like to know how to be with me and have her beliefs, and to meet me in the middle where I have my beliefs. But we don't have any ideas.

MY SOLUTIONS THUS FAR:
- I said how about when you are on your period, I can go enjoy some time with these girls? Answer: NO
- Let's try and play with another girl. Answer: I really don't like that anymore.
- What if someone moved in with us? Answer: I would leave you.

She's called me Machista, when I am totally not. I don't work out, I'm very sensitive and affectionate, I prefer hanging out with girls, and I hate sports. I just am very open minded, and I don't see the point of monogamy if everyone is having fun. She says "It doesn't sound like fun to me" even though in the past we've tried and she's said she likes it. It just feels like projection of insecurity to me, not honestly that it doesn't sound like fun to her. Because she's been into it.

Please can anyone start a dialogue with me and offer us some help?

Thank you so much in advance for taking time out of your night or day to offer your kind words.

In the midst of an anxiety attack or nervous breakdown-there is only one route and that is comfort until they are safe and securely right-minded again.

I say that AS a poly person who is completely supportive of open relationships. Because I also have anxiety issues and I had a serious nervous breakdown or mental break this last winter.

There is no reasoning with someone who is in that state-they can't even reason with themselves and its unfair to try and enforce it.
It's also unreasonable to make any sort of future plans, agreements or commitments (including marriage) with someone whilst they are in that state.

The only right answer is to stop, assess, comfort and heal.

THEN one can discuss the future, commitments and potential agreements.

You know that sounds really sensible. Thank you. And I'm glad I posted such a thorough post so that you could be sensitive to something that was probably only a "texture" to the real problem. I will see where that gets me(us)..."Pause", until things are stable again. Great point!

I guess my question for you is have you clearly stated your intentions, needs, wants, and limits for your fiance? It sounds like it started as you just kind of expressing to her that a threesome might be fun and then all of a sudden you sprang on her that you want actual relationships with girls (or the thought of setting up a "den" of girls). She hasn't had much say in this and it sounds like something that is really making her uncomfortable.

If nothing else, give each other some time to cool down, stop pressuring her to add other relationships for a while, and put your impending marriage on hold until you can find a resolution for this. I would also suggest some counseling in the meantime.

Another question. It sounds with the "den of girls" idea, that you are maybe forgetting that your fiance or some of these other girls might not just want to be with you. If your fiance agrees to a polyamorous relationship, are you going to be comfortable if she gets involved with other men?

So then we started watching THE GIRLS NEXT DOOR, POLYAMORY (The Showtime Show), and reading about that lifestyle and I completely realized that was for me and that here on the island I could easily setup a kind of den of girls.

I started talking about that to her, and she didn't find it fun, or funny, or anything, and all the different shows we were watching, and talking to the new girl, finally has caused her to have what I see as a NERVOUS BREAKDOWN almost. Trembling fear.

She said she would like to know how to be with me and have her beliefs, and to meet me in the middle where I have my beliefs. But we don't have any ideas.

MY SOLUTIONS THUS FAR:
- I said how about when you are on your period, I can go enjoy some time with these girls? Answer: NO
- Let's try and play with another girl. Answer: I really don't like that anymore.
- What if someone moved in with us? Answer: I would leave you.

Evan

Are you actually 100% serious that your idea of poly is that you have a den of girls? I kind of have my fingers crossed you're just joking about it, that you're trolling and not that you think that a couple of reality tv shows is what the general practice of polyamory's "multiple loving (sexually intimate or otherwise) relationships with the knowledge and consent of all involved" means to you.

If my husband had said he wanted a den of girls, I would be afraid (who the fuck is this person I married who talked a bit of open relationships, experimented a bit and now wants a harem?) That is sure not the poly lifestyle most poly people are having, of course she didn't find it funny or fun, you took a giant leap.

Do you think it might be less self centered to think about if a good compromise might be that you date one other person at a time, so your mono wife isn't overwhelmed? Or keep playing as a threesome (if your partner still consents) until she is comfortable enough to be talk about you dating separately?

I don't know that you are actually looking for poly and loving relationships, the way you've handled things with your wife seems very klutzy and not aimed towards a sensitive healthy negotiation where you are keeping both your comfort levels in mind. I mean you start of saying its not like you are asking somebody to move in with you... but you asked your wife what would happen if somebody moved in with you.

I'd say back way up and get some books on poly where there are great recommendations in the "books and website recommendations" sticky thread at the top of the boards, and read and learn together, go slow and remember to put your wife-to-be and child up there as important to you as your hugh hefner fantasies.

__________________
Happiness will never come to those who fail to appreciate what they already have.

Ok, playing devils advocate here.....
Mostly because I dream of having a big house whereas I'm the only female and I've 2 or 3 husbands :-)

A den of girls, a harem, yup, I can see the attraction
Granted I wouldn't want to be there when their menstral cycles line up and there's PMS flying about, but putting that aside for a moment....
Have you thought of the logistics of this? How it could be accomplished?
Setting aside the fact that we all grow differently, have different needs at any particular phase of our lives,
Odds are, one or more within you group will have children, each have their own past/present family/friends... may or may not work, be able to add financially to the collective, may or may not get along with one another....
Are you willing/able to accept responsibility for several women's needs/wants as well as those of their children (present & future), to house them, feed, them, care for them not only superficially/financially but also emotionally & spiritually, helping each of them grow into whomever they wish to become?

Honey, you may want to think about this a bit more before going to the hardware store to cut keys for your front door
Have you heard of in-line families?
I'm researching this actually, seems very well thought out....

If I had a magic wand and could "pooff" your desired world now exists, what do you see? Start easy with the logistics (housing, medical, school/education, whatnot), them try and move into the "soft" aspects; emotions

On my side I logic/lie to myself in thinking men are different then women so having 2-3 men under the same roof would be easier than having 2-3 women, and in some senses that may be true (please people, don't flame me for this, just call me naive and laugh, please, I like my dream even if in practice it may not hold together... but I don't know that yet as my reality isn't there yet)
But even then, I have to consider their children, their exs, their families, friends, coworkers...
Trying to get one relationship solid is hard enough, trying to get multiples under one roof in a long term growth oriented structure.... My ideal, yes, but I know it's going to be a heck of a lot of work/negotiation/compromise and as people are ever changing, just as everything is going well, life will send us another curve ball....

Think about it....... In your ideal situation, beyond sexual fantasies, what does it look/feel like.... And are these views/perceptions possible or just a great wet dream?

I guess my question for you is have you clearly stated your intentions, needs, wants, and limits for your fiance? It sounds like it started as you just kind of expressing to her that a threesome might be fun and then all of a sudden you sprang on her that you want actual relationships with girls (or the thought of setting up a "den" of girls).

Well, in my heart I know I'd most enjoy living with 3 girls while we(the pod of 4) see and have fun with more. I'm a very sharing person, it approaches neurotic but I guess a lot of poly people are like that and it's just a "neurotic" stigma I have to come to terms with as a poly-wired person. I am comfortable making other people happy. I enjoy it. I totally line up with the concept of compersion. That said I am Hetero, and although I would experiment with a guy to make my girl happy, I'm not wired to like guys. I prefer women, I'm not even bi-curious, but I am secure enough to do anything. My point is I am ok with my girls playing with other guys. I don't have an ounce of jealousy in my soul because I believe there are so many options in life, and so many people to share with, that losing something of value is only a step towards the next great adventure. My feeling is if someone I love wants to be happier with someone else than I am happy that makes them happy and they can do what they like. So I don't get threatened by men mixing in. But I do prefer all girls.

Ok so, it's kind of like I came out of the closet. For my first marriage (10 years) I had no clue. I was dormant. I did what I thought society wanted you to do. After the divorce, I became less attached to that society had all the right answers and I started thinking for myself. I dated about 50 girls, and was seeing 7 at the same time, but I never mixed them and got a threesome going, but I was honest with all of them about everyone else I was seeing.

But still my goal in my mind was to find a monogamous life partner. I was having fun looking. I found a super hot girl and got engaged and she cheated on me and we broke up and I couldn't understand how a person could be dishonest and could cheat, I'd never experienced dishonesty before (I was naive I admit). As an honest person, I figured if I had an urge to be with another woman I would have spoken openly about my feelings to her and I expected my partner to be the same. I never experienced the sneaking behind my back, lying, cheating thing before.

So that really left me with a distaste for people who did not have the ability to be open with their feelings and communication. And it further amplified my own desire to be even more open, more myself, an even better communicator, and it led me to realize that: to each his own. You can be gay, I can be straight, you can be Jewish, I can be Catholic, etc. Let's just all get along and each of us do what makes us happiest without using our own beliefs to judge each other.

In the back of my mind I was still searching for a lifelong monogamous partner all this time. So this is when I met who I am with now.

But when we met I was still halfway dormant as a poly-wired person and totally ignorant of it other than people try threesomes and the legend of the Playboy Mansion, and of course polygamy etc. But while together I saw an episode of Dr. Phil where a guy and 2 wives lived together in something called Polyamory, and he could only marry one etc. It just really opened up my mind.

So I did make sure to let her know that I wanted threesomes to be part of my lifestyle and we talked about that a few times.

It wasn't until as things progressed and I started to learn so much about this dormant side of me through researching the concept and exposing myself to the universe of ideas, that I found that I wanted so much more.

So that's how it went from "how about a threesome" to "how about living with some other girls that we both love?".

Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicalRose

She hasn't had much say in this and it sounds like something that is really making her uncomfortable.

I have to give her credit though for even talking about "how can you be happy and I be happy and we meet in the middle?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicalRose

If nothing else, give each other some time to cool down, stop pressuring her to add other relationships for a while, and put your impending marriage on hold until you can find a resolution for this. I would also suggest some counseling in the meantime.

Yeah, wish that was possible where we are, but we are on an Island in the Caribbean and there isn't a psychologist on the island, let alone a specialist in these ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicalRose

Another question. It sounds with the "den of girls" idea, that you are maybe forgetting that your fiance or some of these other girls might not just want to be with you. If your fiance agrees to a polyamorous relationship, are you going to be comfortable if she gets involved with other men?

You know I totally was just throwing the "den of girls" idea out there as an example of the potential of my situation, it really did not represent what I am pushing on my wife-to-be. A lot of respondants are focusing on that, and that really isn't something that I said I was peddling to my fiancee. It was just an example of the kind of temptation out here seducing my open mind. But I can be happy with a compromise.

Quote:
You know I totally was just throwing the "den of girls" idea out there as an example of the potential of my situation, it really did not represent what I am pushing on my wife. A lot of respondants are focusing on that, and that really isn't something that I said I was peddling to my fiancee. It was just an example of the kind of temptation out here seducing my open mind. But I am happy with a compromise.
:Unquote

My apologies, I dd not mean to offend
My mind has been playing with this as well, researching potentialities, logistics, existing scenarios, variations....
Having brought this subject up in my primary, I've received resistance
Was just wondering if you thought of this, spoken with her about it....
My apologies

A den of girls? Seriously? Oh jeez. You're talking about being open and focused on sex, which isn't really what poly is about.

Thanks for the response NYC, but no, I am not talking about a Den Of Girls. That has been taken out of context a couple times here now. The "Den of Girls" was an example of what could be done where I live because of the situation on this island (it's a long winded social and economic discussion as to how the girls here would be into that, but suffice to say it could be done.).

But no that is not what I was talking about in my post. Only that one night I used that as an example in my discussions with my wife-to-be as to what is possible here. It wasn't the best vision to throw a mono-wired person who loves you, I admit, but at that time I wasn't even aware that people were "wired". After learning about "wiring" I completely agree with the idea. I see some others try and say that there is no such thing as "wiring" but I completely disagree, and I know too much about psychology to ever think otherwise.

Alright so anyway, just to clarify from my original post, personally, what I want is to be in a relationship with just enough partners as to satisfy my desire to share love whilst not approaching "polysaturation". And to have the freedom to ignite my internal light through flirting with new people. An Open Poly relationship, which is basically an open lifestyle, a poly lifestyle.

However I believe my fiancee either needs to be slowly introduced to all this, or will never be into anything more than playing with threesomes.