I relapsed, on Opiates and Ambien-need advice- outpatient Suboxone Treatment

I relapsed, on Opiates and Ambien-need advice- outpatient Suboxone Treatment

Please excuse the bad grammer or spelling. I dissapeared for awhile because I relapsed on pills- I have not checked in to see how all of you were doing- because I was too busy trying to get sober, trying to tapper- then failing miserably. I pushed my boyfriend of 3 years away so I could enjoy taking pills again After being away from him and taking 30 Ambien in 5 days did me in where called him up and boyame clean. I have given up, I want to laugh again - really hard. That deep down belly laugh. I only beat myself up with the pity party for a few days- maybe a week. Being in rehab for 30 days taught me if I ever relapsed- to get honest and then get over being sad with yourself. I called a medical doctor who is board cert. in the disease of addiction and because I am working full time, and cannot take ONE day off. Im doing an out- patient Suboxone tappering program. On Wednesday- Im stopping the vic's at 4:00pm, and should go into full withdrawls by midnight. I will work in the morning with chills, the runs, fever, pain all over, runny nose, achy body, huge pupils- I will go to the doctor 24 hours after I stopped taking the last vic. Then, they will take vital signs and drug test me. They will keep me in the office for 3 hours- give me Suboxone- and monitor to see what dosage I need. Over the course of the next weeks- they will tapper me down so that I can work and be a good mom. I have been through a Sub detox before- but in rehab I was on it for ONE WEEK- THAT IS IT! I was on 4 then 3 mg then 2 mg, then 1 mg then 1/2 and they stopped. I went through horrible w/d's. I don't know why I was even put on it since it was only a week. My current doctor said taking someone off of is that quick would not work. You would end up relapsing. Im irritable right now. Im just feeling yucky already. Ive been off the ambien for 6 days, and have not slept very much. My recovery doctor gave me seroquel, I took it for two days and it was the worst! I would stay up all night rather than feel like I felt on that stuff. It was horrible! It is sopossed to make you tired but me being the wonderful addict I am took it and waited around to feel the buzz. But it never happend and I just felt hung over the next day. I know they are going to give me the Clonidine patch and pills next week when I start detoxing.

I would love to know anyone's suggestions- and/ or reasons I should stay sober. I am tired of chasing the tiger- just to get bitten everytime. I want to stay sober. I want to start smiling like I used to when I was sober after I returned from rehab. I was such a great person with a happy additude and now Im withdrawn and my smile is fake. It is the worst!

If anyone has chossen the Sub route to get sober... let me know. If anyone has been happy joyous and free for a year or more.. please tell me how you did it.

If you work and have tappered and had to work through days of pain- tell me how you did it.

Have you tried NA? Getting clean is easy, to some extend. With some grit and **** anyone can do it at least once in their live times, some people multiple times. So the thing that people seem to miss is that to stay stopped is really the biggest problem in their life and so a new program for living is really needed, not just a cosy support group (although that really helps.) You need a new way to live your disfunctional and unhappy live. You have to get honest and get to the meetings. That's the way it's worked for me anyhow. I'm a recovered Alcoholic. I've enjoy each day of sobriety as best possible and if I make mistakes that I try and correct them, make ammends and move foward again. I will always make some mistakes, in fact my history tells me that it's the pain I feel from the mistakes that most often lead to life changing realiseations.

In a 12step fellowship you can find a sponsor to guide you to this new way to live without the need to turn to drugs and if you've been that route before; pick yourself up, wipe yourself down and start all over again :-)

BTW, try many different meetings, some will not be to your liking for one reason or another, it's important to visit at least 20 different meetings in the early days and then once a lasting sobriety takes hold, you can pick and choice the ones that seem "right."

I will go in more detail later if you wish, but sub has caged my tiger. I was placed on a 6 week taper and at 4 weeks knew I would relapse it I did not stay on for longer. So I choose maint therapy. I am on 3-4 mg a day and doing fine.
The sub can stop cravings, stop wd's, and help with depression and pain relief.
You might want to do some research about maint. due to your relapses. Maybe your body just needs more time to heal.
I will keep you in my prayers. I took 1 day off from work when I started, and really did not need that. Good luck.

i was a major opiate addict....tried buprenex for many years(injectable form of bupenorphine)...was on subutex,suboxone.....methadone,too.....t he only way,in my opinion to kick is to stop.....bupenorhine tapers only satisfy your minds way of saying its ok to do opiates.....bupenorphine is a addictive drug also....my way of rationalizing the whole thing was i didnt want to feel crappy....why do you think as opiate addicts we want the easy way out...there is no easy way out.....youve got to put up with the w/d's for a month...ive made it after 32 years of usin dope....one month...i should have takin a month off of live....instead ill most likely pay at the end of my life when im 55 or so....one month of no sleep/diahrea/w/d symptoms,dispondance,ect..is better than your next three or four years of dabblin with sobriety....take it from an ace in the game of addiction....ive been there done,that...tooke me way to long to realize...got to just stop....life got one hell of alot better for me...i pray/hope it does for you...god bless and say a major league prayer tonight.......chef

I remember you as well and read your trials and tribulations with rehab. No worries about your relapse and (((((((((((hugs)))))))))))). Just pick yourself up and start over. It will be painful but I truly understand about work and kids. Its unbearable. Can you at least wait until the weekend?

I went on Subutex after 35+ a day habit of hydros and was in WDs for about a few hours and took my first tab of Sub sublingul. It was a miracle but I tried to taper off it and went into terrible WDs for a month. Lethargy was so bad and it was so so so bad- the WDs. I had to use hydros to get off it.

I relapsed and been doing the Immodium AD thingy. IT WORKS. Its an opiod derivative and doesn't cross the blood brain barrier nor do you get high off it. If you take 4 tablets 3X daily , it will cut out all physical WDs. YOu will need to taper off it if you are on it for more than a couple of weeks. Remember that it takes 1-2 hours before it starts to eliminate WDs so keep that in mind.

Google it on the internet and see how it has worked for many others. It is a proven theory and IMHO, it maybe a better solution than Sub. I tried it all and CT is best for me. I do not have the steel will power strength to taper off opiates. Its way too hard for me. I need to feel the pain so I can have a bad memory of WDs.
Take care .

Kinda,
I miss all those people you brought up.. Dallas, Ellnyc, Lisahubb, and many others that helped me through getting sober the first time around. I did have the desire and will power to get me through the toughest time in my life. I still feel like a renagade gal with the disease of addiction. I pushed AA outta my life because I wanted to use again. I got sober the 1st time but did not want it bad enough. I think this was eneviable- and Ive grown so much in the past few months. I KNOW FOR SURE I cannot handle taking meds like the label reads. I take meds to heal my pain, to zone out so I can relax- to feel the high so that my emotions don't get out of control. It's all a facade. It does not exist when Im on pills. I laughed soooooo hard when I finally got sober.. within 30 days I was laughing so hard my stomach hurt. It's been a long time since Ive smiled now. And when I do smile or laugh- its not genuine. Its fake and I can't feel anymore. It's the worst.

BB- I know AA- I was in it for over a year. I went 4 times a week, sometimes twice a day. I had a ton of friends in AA, a sponsor. But it did not work because somewhere in there I decided I was better than that.. I did not NEED AA- that all of those people were more messed up than me. I was setting myself up so I could relapse. I stopped calling my sponsor- I stopped doing the work. (Oh my gosh! I just realized I have to do another 4th step!) That is the pits! I keep praying that God will take this disease away from me. It's not happening. Its not going to happen. I was listening to a talk show on the radio and someone said you will continue going through things that lead you to lean on God until you do. I believe that I need to help other people like me- that is why Im on this earth- to help others. How can I help others when Im on pills? I can't.

Heres the plan: My doctor will not keep me on a low dosage of Sub. I signed a contract this past Saturday. If the doctor calls me in to do a pill check and I took too many- Im out of the program. If I get called in to do a drug test and I dont pass.. Im out of the program. This 4 to 6 week tappering on sub is only so that I can work while Im detoxing. I do have chronic back pain- siaitica (I spelled that wrong), and I do need ongoing help with my pain. The office Im going to- to do the tappering offers classes that help you with the pain- its called mindfulness. They teach you to be aware that your pain is there-and to do things to lesson the pain with your diet, your mind, and your just being aware of the things that you know make your back pain worse. Their idea that they live by is addicts cannot take anything that will trigger your disease- and taking bupern. or sub it highly adictive- it is a form of opiate- and they want you to tapper slowly so that your brain does not tell your body you are dying- and you will somehow trick your brain and tappering will slowly tell your brain to make more endorphines so you can take your body back to the state it was in before you ever took it.

I know Im a such a nicer person off of opiates. Ive never known anyone to be totally relaxed and in a good state of mind on hydrocodone- everyone I have seen on it is uptight, nervous, not smiling, and know eventually the temporary feel-good will be over soon- and the only thing we end up doing is taking the stuff so we wont feel the horrible yucky pain of withdrawls.

I really need you guys to support me. Really need your words. Give me anything. I need your support. I will be taking my last vicodin at 4pm on Wednesday. By 10pm that night I will be in withdrawls. I was given Seroquel 25 mg to sleep on if I needed to. I CANT TAKE SEROQUEL. It makes me feel worse than ever. You know the way we do it... if you are anything like me.. you take the sleep med and dont go to bed right away.. I stay up to feel the high. Then take another, then another until I can't keep my head up- then I will go to bed. That is what I really want to do when I start to withdrawl but like I said.. If I did that- and they drug test me.. Im in trouble because they will drop me from the program and I will be detoxing with a great job to go to, two beautiful kids, and a boyfriend I have been dating for 3 year whom I love very much. I can't fail I have to be like that renegade girl I was telling you about. I have to feel support so I can w/d all night, go to work the next morning- (that would be around 15 hours and I will be detoxing like a big dog!) So here I am at work on Thursday- in my chair- with the runs, and freezing cold- and hot and cold and head on fire, and achy all over- and cramping. Oh my gosh, the KICKS ohhhh I forgot about those wonderful KICKS ! At 3:30 pm on Thursday - I am driving to the doctors where they will do a physical and give me probably a 4 mg sub. Then hopefully another 4 mg sub. then I will go home and one more day- on Friday - to work. Then I go back to the doctor on Friday to get my Rx of Sub. My doctor will not do a detox on a friday- Thursday is the last day of the week they will administer sub to you. So I have to do it this way.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do in the next couple of days to prepare? Does anyone know if there is somethning over the counter that will help me sleep but will not give me a hangover the next day? I know Im in for a rough ride. Its so easy to just refill that bottle of hydros. But Im so tired of chasing the w/d's. Im so tired of being chainned to a drug. Im tired of them being my means to an end. Pills have had my mind, body, and soul for all of my adult life. I laughed so hard when I was just two months sober.I want to laugh instead of sitting at the drive thru ant the pharmacy-I want to kiss my kids first thing in the morning- and not run to take a hydro so the chills will stop (yes, if I sleep for 8 hours- THE WITHDRAWLS ALREADY START! Im a total whimp. My body is that sensitive. Boy, Im gonna be in pain. And Im really scared and crying right now. Im really scared!!!!!!I also want to be able to go to the bathroom instead of taking stool softeners. You know what I mean so dont think that is yucky. I mean it is yucky but its what happens to people who take hydro... your sex life decreases, you cant go to the bathroom, and you eventually stop smiling.

Yep. Im scared. Please, calling all addicts and alcoholics- recovering or not... I need your support. Please give me feedback. Please help. I read the withdrawl items someone wrote and it helped but none of the stuff it said to do.. I can do at work except put a blanket over my legs and od on immodium ad and tylenol. Why why why why- Its insainity to know I really thought I could take just one this last time. What was I thinking? I forgot to tell you this: after I relapsed about 6 months ago- I took the opitaes- tried to tapper off myself- yea right, and I couldnt so I took tramodol, when I tried tappering off the tramodol, I took opiates! It was crazy! Then, I was taking a ton of ambien to feel relaxed when I was on the vics! It's insainity at it's best!

I want off this ride.Any suggestions? I am open to anything! Thanks so much, and I love you guys. I have to stick with this board. I appreciate you and need you.

I need hugs and some serious coming together of people and support,

Sara

__________________
"I believe that friends lift us up when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly."
-Sara

Oh Sara I feel your pain and will try to be here for you. You should not have to do anything to prepare. I was told to use my DOC until 16hrs before my first dose of sub. That is the point, to be in light wd's just before your dose of sub, and not suffer for 2 or 3 days before hand. It is something about is opiate addicts...more....more...more...Try and get it set in you mind less is more. I dose 2-3 times a day which does help with the pain and the need to 'take pills'. I too started with a taper, and it was working so well I decided to stay on maint. I had been a full fledged addict for 4+ years. This maybe what you need. I have heard the theory...4 months of sub maint.....for each year of addiction. Something to consider.

I don't understand the 'pill counting' in this way....I understand they have to titrate your dose until you are comfortable, which can take up to a week. Ideally, you should NOT have any cravings, symptoms of withdrawal's , nor discomfort. Please ask about this. I want you to feel/get the maximum effects of the sub. Else wise what is the point. Do know over doing sub can cause flu like symptoms.....Everyone is different and the maximum induction dose is 32mg. Most only need 16 to 24mg. One should stabilize, then begin the taper.

I'm so happy to see you here. I still think of you when I go to the Friday night meeting at...St Mark's on San Filipe. I miss you. Hopefully one day soon we will run into each other at a meeting.

I'm sad to hear of your relapse but I'm glad to hear you are now ready to get sober once again. I know it's painful to talk about your relapse and I admire your courage. It takes a lot of courage to come back. You are a good person, a sick one right now but a very kind soul. You (we) never know how much we help others by sharing our secrets. Thank you for that, you've helped me stay sober today. I see others on this thread too that have been helped.

I don't have any personal exp with Sub and honestly have conflicted feelings about it. I try to keep an open mind about it. I don't think it would be the route for me even though I considered it a couple of years ago. I would rather get the wd over with and be done with it. No matter what you choose, I only wish the best for you.

How many vics are you taking per day? How long did you take the prescribed amount before adding one more? When you feel like talking about it, please do.

It sounds like you know without a doubt that you will never be able to handle and mood altering drugs...me either! I have a very long history with pills. I even stayed sober off of all drugs for 13 years. It took a while to talk myself into taking them...because I NEEDED them and I was NOT going to get hooked again...ever. Well, I did get hooked on them again and stayed that way off and on for almost 9 years. Sara, lots of us have relapsed, you are not alone.

So, are you going to call your sponsor? Start making meetings again...I'm sure they will love to see you and welcome you with open arms.

One thing I did for myself this last time was to enroll in an outpatient treatment program. This helped me be accountable and remember what it is i was trying to acheive. Of course meetings today are the single most important thing I do for my recovery. Just my ESH.

Oh, and one more thing regarding sleeping. I don't know of a safe drug for addicts to take to help us sleep. i know Seroquel and Trazadone are the choice of most drs nowadays as far as treating addicts for insomnia but, I don't know. I just don't have an off switch regarding pills. This year and a half I have had many sleepless nights and gone to work tired BUT it is much better now. I was also a longterm benzo user and I think my nervous system was completely out of whack. I'm afraid I wouldn't stay sober if I start trying to take pills like normal people do.

Sending prayers your way, Sara. Hang in there, you will make it. Keep reaching out and let others help back.

HI SARA!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow i haven't seen you around in a long time.
O.k......so you fell, now you gotta pick yourself back up.
Dam girl, i KNOW you can do this. You have tons of knowlege, in fact, i remember YOU helping ME. Don't let your addiction knock all of that knowlege out....read back at some of your old posts....
You can do this today. Be strong, and i know you are VERY strong. I didn't read your whole post, but how much were you taking and for how long?
My prayers are with you and i am gonna read your whole post, i just wanted to say a quick HELLO and let you know i know you are a lot stronger than you give yourself credit for.
love,
LISA

By the way Patty is right....CALL YOUR SPONSER!!!!! She will help you. Get your butt into a meeting, sick or not....... i used to go barfing in a trash can, but they knew i had an extreme desire to be there and to learn. A lot of the people in the rooms wanted me to go in-patient, that wasn't an option for me. You've already been in rehab, use what you learned there to get you thru this.
Your addiction is going to try to block all that out.....don't let it. Like i said, go back and re-read some of your old posts.
You can do this, i am here for you, just as you were here for me in the past.
Meetings and getting a sponser was what worked for you. Get to it, girl!
You know a lot of the answers..... i know you do, that dam addiction is just trying to keep you controlled, get mad, don't let it....fight back!

Lisa,
I cant. Its got me BAD. Im being all dramatic and everything but I really have not one little tiny tinesy bit of desire to go to a meeting. Ive been crying all day. My boyfriend overslept and did not pick up my kids this morning while I was detoxing and he knew it. So Im crying uncontrollably. I have no desire to do good right now. Im shut down. Sara- out

__________________
"I believe that friends lift us up when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly."
-Sara

Lisa,
I cant. Its got me BAD. Im being all dramatic and everything but I really have not one little tiny tinesy bit of desire to go to a meeting. Ive been crying all day. My boyfriend overslept and did not pick up my kids this morning while I was detoxing and he knew it. So Im crying uncontrollably. I have no desire to do good right now. Im shut down. Sara- out

I understand Sara, I didn't want to go back to meetings either. In fact I spent years trying to find another way to get sober but just couldn't manage to stay stopped. Threw away my Big Book and other literature related to AA.

I tried numerous doctors, specialists in addiction, counselors, etc. I have enough self help books to open a store. Wonderful titles, like "How To Quit Drugs for Good" Addiction is not a Disease." Switching my DOC, having friends and family hold my pills for me, even put them all in an envelope and mailed them to myself to give myself a couple of days break of no pill taking, lol. Didn't work for me either, the damn envelope came back to me the next day! I also through cigs in the mix even after being a non-smoker for 18 years!! Thought I would smoke temporarily while I weaned myself off of pills. Hah...of course that didn't work either. The mind of an addict..geez.

I wouldn't even consider going back to AA. In fact I would get a little preturbed if anyone suggested it or asked me if I had thought about it. When I read posts from others on here that attended meetings, I would think "too bad, they are brainwashed"...or "they are religious nuts."

When I was ready to give up trying to control my use, I decided to give AA one more try. I'm glad I did, it's working for me. There is fellowship and those who can help in your journey to sobriety. You (we) are not alone.

I'm with Lisa, you sounded so happy, so contented after rehab and particularly the first 9 mos or so afterwards. Reading your posts encouraged me so much. You have no idea how much you helped me, you really did. I think it was a great suggestion to go back and re-read some of your old posts. I suppose this could be painful too. Please don't beat yourself up about this. You did what most of us did at some point. Using is a normal thing for us to do. That's why a program of recovery is so important. We have a lot of things to work on!!

Just don't give up. You can have a beautiful life, Sara. Just don't give up, keep trying.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, PATTY!
That was so sweet! That made me feel so good!
Well, I made it through today. I detoxed today and when I woke up this morning I felt like a Mack Truck had run me over in the middle of the night.
I was in full w/d mode when I went to the doctor at 4:00pm I looked at my boyfriend on the way to get the suboxone.. and said I have one day of detox behind me.. why don't I just go for it and detox w/o the Sub... He said, Sara you have tried to detox off for the past 5 months.. just try the sub, follow the doc's orders. So he put me on the Sub with the understanding was that he will gradually lower the dose over the next four weeks- and then I take the last 1/2 pill on a Friday morning.. and spend the weekend on Clonidine- and thats it! Im going to my first meeting on Monday- and will hopefully see you at the Friday night meeting. Me and my boyfriend are going to go to that one and then Post Oak on Saturday, then to a movie for date night on Sat night, then 3:00 meditation meeting at PostOak on Sunday. I have the kids this weekend so I won't be able to go- and my doctor said to rest this weekend- my body has been through a lot- then go to a meeting on Monday at lunch.

I really apreciate your honesty and your kind words about how my experience in rehab and the first year of my sobriety helped you. That is what motivates me- helping other people, all people-not just addicts and alcoholics.

Guess what, I had my first moment of coming back to the real world tonight. I was feeding my cat and it just hit me- I feel like Im heading back. Just like you, or almost like you... I threw all my AA and all my literature on addiction in the closet.. out of sight. It made me upset to hear about AA and meetings, and anything about getting sober. I am going to go back and look at my old posts sometime this weekend. Im just too worn out to do anything right now. Im ready to sleep, or at least try to sleep. My legs are cramping.

You are such a sweetie! I thank you from my heart- you are amazing telling me your story about how reading my posts helped you. That really made me want to get better.. THANKS

Good night sweetie!

Much love and apreciation,
Sara

__________________
"I believe that friends lift us up when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly."
-Sara

Hi Sara, I rember you from about 2yrs ago, I had a different screen name because when I moved I lost all my account info. You used to help me so much, you are such an amazing and strong person, I know you can do this. When it rains it pours hun, I am sober now and dealing with a horrific court case over theese evil vikes. It is normal for you to feel sad and not want to go to a meeting, as you know the first few days the depression is the worst, its like your mind is playing tricks on you. Try and go to a meeting if you can, if not come here for support and tell your bf you need him more then ever now so he needs to step up to the plate, if he tries that well look how many times you have relapsed sh**t, remind him that was the past and this is the present, and remember two steps forward, two steps back, but staying clean will lead you to freedom and happiness and those awesome belly aching laughs and real smiles. I will pray for you hun, you are such a great person and deserve better then those nasty little vikes.