Getting tough on school canteens

I was living in the UK when Jamie Oliver started his campaign against school lunches – to remove ‘turkey twizzlers’ (I was always a bit afraid to ask what these were) and other nutrient free items from canteens and replace them with good, healthy (real) food.

This was at least 5 years ago. So, I was kind of surprised to hear that the ACT Government had banned sugary drinks (among other things) from school canteens and decided to colour code foods to signal whether they were suitable for sale to children.

Really? We hadn’t already done this? I heard an interview on 666 last week where they were talking to someone from the P&C Association who was talking about the disadvantages to these rules and saying that if the items are available off site, the kids will just travel to pick them up. Primarily the issue was financial and the implications these bans would have on money raising.

I must confess to being somewhat surprised recently at a fundraising chocolate sale at my daughters Pre School. I haven’t been in an office environment for a few years so hadn’t really come across them before, but from what I could tell, chocolate fundraisers are everywhere and I can see why – they raise loads of cash. But, it’s a bit hard to tell the kids we shouldn’t eat too much chocolate and sugary foods and then come home with a massive box of big chocolate frogs to sell off.

As far as the canteen bans go, I am personally pretty pleased and kind of impressed that the ACT Government has put its foot down over it. When Katy Gallagher was being challenged during the 666 interview she was unapologetic, saying that there had already been years passed in talking about it and questioning what damage would be done by leaving it any longer.

It is also strange though that at Uni the other day I asked for a water with my sandwich (sadly I am not often so conscientious in my ordering but let’s go with it for now) only to be told they didn’t sell it. They could give me flavoured water, sparkling water, juice or soft drink, but not water as it had been decided to take it off the menu in favour of the environment. Great for the environment. But, a bit sh*t if you’ve forgotten your water bottle and certainly not in keeping with the whole healthy consumption messaging.

I remember as a teenager myself (some 20+ years ago now) back in High School and one of the great excitements of moving to High School was the availability of ‘junk food’ in the canteen. We’d gone from carob buds and apricot bars as our big treat at Primary school to soft drink and vanilla slice in High School.

Good parenting is one thing. My mum would send me into school with cheese and lettuce sandwiches on whole grain and we were never allowed fizzy drinks or junk food at home. And yet, if I could scrape up the $1.20 for a vanilla slice, that baby was mine!

All this aside, how much do these foods impact our kids ability to concentrate and learn? How alive do you feel after a lunch high in fat and sugar? Fancy practicing a bit of long division?

Or do we need to be teaching our kids to resist these temptations early on so they can navigate their own choices once out in the big wide world where fizzy drinks are on sale, with a side order of fries and a chocolate bar?

I completely agree. Every event at my daughter’s school has some kind of a junk food angle. They literally have an annual event called Lolly Day. The canteen menu is not significantly different to mine of 30 years ago.

However, I do appreciate school canteens do it very tough. It’s mission impossible to provide 100% fresh and healthy options, which kids actually want to eat, on a very limited budget; especially when many school canteens only operate a few days a week…

Encouraging children to sell chocolate in schools reminds me of an article many years ago about Chinese children making fireworks in the classroom for an hour or so before school. What are our priorities here?

Same thought crossed my mind. However many people appear to think water only comes in bottles. Don’t you know it’s far too inconvenient to go to a tap, turn it on and fill a glass/cup! I volunteer somewhere and I have noticed this weird attitude. There is a choice of tap temperature water or cooled water in a real glass, but many people ignore those and take a plastic bottle of water. I am only a volunteer there and so have no say in ordering, but if I did, I would NOT have bottled water available. People can use a glass and turn a tap on.

Sure, I’m happy to make healthy school lunches – it’s what my mum used to do, and I’m more than happy for that to be the way we do it now so my kids don’t end up as fat little tubbies, but do I REALLY need to be some all-seeing Eye of Sauron even when my kids are at school, or can someone PLEASE not be a douche with the school canteen and remove all that junk?

Oh no, a chocolate drive, the director of that preschool Is obviously worse than Hitler. Just because your daughter brings home a box of chocolate frogs it doesn’t mean she has to set them all! Good opportunity to teach self control by letting her have one and selling the rest, rather than panicking and getting all worked Upgrade required over it.

Our primary school at Isabella has a no chocolate selling policy I believe and instead selling things like boxes of cherries straight from the producer in Young when they become available every year. I think last time they sold 40 boxes at $35.

It’s ridiculous that canteens feel they can only make money from junk type food. My son is only 6 and he takes a packed lunch as there is no canteen. He has fruit, sarnie, cheese, yoghurt etc. sometimes a treat, but actually he thinks that having a few party size sausage rolls once in a blue moon or one teeny tiny chocolate egg is a treat, so maybe he’s mercifully sheltered when it comes to needing a constant stream of junk. Others might think that I’m mean, but if it means no sugary shit in my trolley then so much the better. At the age of 6 he actually knows the value of proper nutritious food, particularly as they include this in their curriculum.

It’s the same at kids parties. Why parents think kids haven’t enjoyed themselves unless they are shovelling 10 types of cr$p into there mouths beats me.

I’m fairly sure most unis have banned plastic water containers because they’re just selling water which comes from a water bottle. The point is don’t forget your bottle and save some petrol.

I used to eat all kinds of junk as a kid but I was also more active than the kids these days. Kids are much more active than adults and can pretty much eat whatever they like and still be healthy. As long as not every meal lacks vegetables.

The notion of eating fat makes you fat is about as accurate to little kids as eating lots of carrots will make you a ranga. Sure there are ranga’s but correlation doesn’t imply causation.

If children don’t learn to eat in moderation and learn to eat healthy foods when do they learn? In their rebellious teens? as stressed adults?

Is there also an approved reading list for what the little ones can read at lunchtime? particular religions that promote better health over others?

Are we also going to ban bacon, meat on Fridays, beef.

Fruits are full of sugars, are we also going to ban them too?

How long before the act government imposes a ban processed food at shops like they ‘banned’ plastic bags. Perhaps we could have a ration system, where we get food stamps to be able to buy the foods that actually taste good.

The biggest thing that makes kids fat is eating the wrong sized meals. are we also going to weigh the kids before and after lunch so we can identify the offenders?

I’m keen to hear what you’d put on the menu if you consider a vegi or chicken burger with lettuce and mayo “trash”. I’m not sure what you expect from a bunch of volunteer mums(and dads) in a very basic kitchen with limited time while still offering some choice to the spoilt brats of the 21st Century.

I finished high school in 1997 and my school never had fizzy drinks. Hot meals were your standard pies,sausage rolls, mini pizzas and that was about it. There was no real healthy sandwiches then either. The idea was that canteen food was supposed to be a treat, not a parental substitute.

Canteens are for parents who can’t be bothered to make their child’s lunch, for what ever reason. Canteens have been around a long time. In my day the choices were fewer; sandwiches, pies and sausage rolls, plus chips and cakes. Not very healthy. It was either bring your own lunch, or buy from the canteen. Children were rarely allowed to leave the school grounds, and if we did we needed to ask permission, regardless of the age of the child, even if 17 or 18 years old. We didn’t leave very often, because cafe food was more expensive than the canteen, and most of us weren’t given enough money for this.
The solution is for parents to give their children packed lunches and no money to spend.

Monash primary has a green, amber, red system that helps kids learn to make healthy choices. I think this is a step towards empowering children to make their own healthy decisions. Parents can’t choose the foods their kids will eat forever.
Ps. Those chocolate fundraisers don’t bring much cash in for the schools, just a great way for companies to get rid of short dated stock…

It seems that not even the humble primary school canteen can hide from Labor’s ridiculous habit of viewing everything as a problem that needs to be fixed.

Oddly enough, when I went to primary school in the 1980s, our school canteen sold soft drinks, jam donuts and vanilla slices every day of the school year. And yet on the whole, we kids were much skinnier than the primary school kids of today.

Here’s a crazy idea: why doesn’t the ACT Government try spending a bit less? No light rail or primary schools with fewer than 200 students each would be a good start. If the government stopped putting up our rates and car registration etc by 10% per year, every year, and took some steps to reduce the cost of living, parents might actually be able to work a little bit less. Then they might have time to prepare school lunches for their children, and walk with their children to school, and do some outdoor activities with them on weekends.

As a kid I ate white bread, had full sugar cordial, sausages, occasional lollies and chocolate. I also ate cereal for breakfast and vegetables at dinner. Fruit for snacks.

The difference is that as kids we ran around. A lot. And climbed and jumped and wrestled and kicked the football. We would spend at least a couple of hours a day engaged in fairly steady physical activity. And very few kids were fat.

I saw plenty of kids at the food court yesterday afternoon who looked chubby, weak and pasty. Perhaps our parenting styles are more to blame than the food the canteen sells?

When I was at Pearce Primary School in 1970/71 we had hot dog day once a month. At Melrose High we had pies, sausage rolls, pasties, custard pies as well as Sunny Boys and Glugs. At Phillip College we had the same. Today I do bodybuilding and swimming each day after taking it up whilst at school. Yep, no doubt about it – junk food at school canteens causes all sorts of health problems in later life!

As a kid I ate white bread, had full sugar cordial, sausages, occasional lollies and chocolate. I also ate cereal for breakfast and vegetables at dinner. Fruit for snacks.

The difference is that as kids we ran around. A lot. And climbed and jumped and wrestled and kicked the football. We would spend at least a couple of hours a day engaged in fairly steady physical activity. And very few kids were fat.

I saw plenty of kids at the food court yesterday afternoon who looked chubby, weak and pasty. Perhaps our parenting styles are more to blame than the food the canteen sells?

Lack of physical activity is no doubt a contributor to obesity in children, but as any nutritionist/dietician will tell you, you can’t outrun a bad diet.

The bottom line is kids are fat because they’re eating too many calories, and that’s probably influenced by their parents. I think it’s no coincidence that fat kids usually have fat parents.

When I was at Pearce Primary School in 1970/71 we had hot dog day once a month. At Melrose High we had pies, sausage rolls, pasties, custard pies as well as Sunny Boys and Glugs. At Phillip College we had the same. Today I do bodybuilding and swimming each day after taking it up whilst at school. Yep, no doubt about it – junk food at school canteens causes all sorts of health problems in later life!

One person’s example is hardly proof. Plus many children don’t go on to doing regular exercise. They leave school under exercised, overfed on the wrong food, and they think this is normal, and it’s all downhill from there.

If you have been shocked that they wouldn’t want to *sell* water to you, imagine if you were me: in my country, in every place where they sell food or drinks, they have to (by law) give water to whoever ask. Not sell: give. (of course it’s tap water, but still…)

I am also shocked that there is NO proper canteen in Australia. I mean, what you call “canteen” is not a real canteen for me, it’s just a place where you buy food, it is not better than going to a shop to buy your food (except that they do re-heat sausage rolls and other stuff like that, which at least is something hot in winter phewww!). Where I come from, there is a canteen in each school: that’s a big room where children go and sit together, and there is a cook (or more than one) who has prepared ONE proper meal for everyone (of course they catter for allergy and other food requirements too!). Children have to sit at a table, go figure! They have to use a fork and a knife, they have a glass of water, they have an entree, a warm meal and a dessert. All of that for a very cheap price (invoiced to parents monthly or so), as all of us mums know because when you cook a healthy big meal for everyone, then it’s much cheaper than buying industrial stuff. Imagine that: fom birth to adulthood, children are used to sit at a table, eat a proper meal, take their time, discover different food ever day, share that moment with their friends (with no social differences with children whose parents can’t afford such and such thing…) + parents don’t feel bad not having time to prepare a healthy lunch box, because you know your children will have a much better lunch that whatever you could have put in the lunch box.

(Of course, that does require that parents forget the idea that their children should choose what they eat. No they shouldn’t IMHO…)

Even though I love Australia, the canteen topic is a real problem for me. It would make sense to me if food education was part of what our children learn at school. Unfortunately that’s quite the opposite…

On a different topic, it’s funny to see all your answers with big statements like “obesity comes from lack of sport / too big meal / junk food / slacking parents / whatever-you-want”. You know what, obesity comes from poverty in industrial countries (in poor countries, when you are poorer than everyone else you just starve… not in Australia…). Fat is how your body protects itself from poisoning, if you eat cr#p you get fat. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1043276010000238

And please stop especially the “too lazy parents”… If you were preparing your children lunch boxes + having to take care of everything else + sometimes having a paid job in addition, you would know that it’s quite a challenge and you would certainly not write that. Having three children of my own, I spend an hour every morning doing their lunch boxes. While you are sipping your coffee and getting a nice shower, mothers are running like crazy to get everything done on time.

Schools in 3rd world countries often provide meals because it’s the only decent meals that children can provide. Citing things like “Fat is how your body protects itself from poisoning, if you eat cr#p you get fat” only shows you to be scientifically illiterate.
I think we can all agree that that it should be obvious for schools to provide “healthy” meals, what’s healthy to you isn’t healthy to someone else.

If you can’t make three sandwiches, get three snacks and drinks for your children well inside of one hour then you are doing something wrong.

Perhaps people need to revisit their parenting techniques and time management skills before asking for a nanny state to look after and feed their children.

As a kid I ate white bread, had full sugar cordial, sausages, occasional lollies and chocolate. I also ate cereal for breakfast and vegetables at dinner. Fruit for snacks.

The difference is that as kids we ran around. A lot. And climbed and jumped and wrestled and kicked the football. We would spend at least a couple of hours a day engaged in fairly steady physical activity. And very few kids were fat.

I saw plenty of kids at the food court yesterday afternoon who looked chubby, weak and pasty. Perhaps our parenting styles are more to blame than the food the canteen sells?

Lack of physical activity is no doubt a contributor to obesity in children, but as any nutritionist/dietician will tell you, you can’t outrun a bad diet.

The bottom line is kids are fat because they’re eating too many calories, and that’s probably influenced by their parents. I think it’s no coincidence that fat kids usually have fat parents.

True. I guess that although we had ‘full sugar’ and ‘full fat’ versions of foods, the majority of what we ate was simple and fresh, and treats were not a daily thing.

Eating too many calories is one thing, not taking lots of exercise contributes to strength and health is another. As kids, you are supposed to be running off energy.

It’s hardly surprising that we have world championship levels of obesity, heart disease and diabetes in this country.

Every time somebody tries to do something about it they get slammed.

Very true, and actually doing something about it would take something much more radical than anything we’ve tried so far. Reducing McDonalds ads during kids TV time is a token, but most kids are already accustomed to sweetened and over-processed everything long before they learn what a Big Mac is.

Not sure there is any simple solution for this one, unless science can create healthy food that tastes as good as the unhealthy stuff..

It’s hardly surprising that we have world championship levels of obesity, heart disease and diabetes in this country.

Every time somebody tries to do something about it they get slammed.

Very true, and actually doing something about it would take something much more radical than anything we’ve tried so far. Reducing McDonalds ads during kids TV time is a token, but most kids are already accustomed to sweetened and over-processed everything long before they learn what a Big Mac is.

Not sure there is any simple solution for this one, unless science can create healthy food that tastes as good as the unhealthy stuff..

Doesn’t the problem solve itself?
If not its not really a problem then?

Perhaps everyone should convert to being a Muslim so they can learn moderation and lose weight during Ramadan?

Where is the evidence to show that taking away all unhealthy food in primary school leads to healthy adults that make healthy choices as adults.?

Social engineering is just a huge waste of time. Hasn’t anyone noticed that the break times for children has rapidly decreased form the usual 30 minute recess and 1 hour lunch.

Now kids are lucky to get an hour a day with little sport.

Everyone is quick to blame the canteen but what % of fat kids don’t use the canteen?

The other thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of larger people I went to school with are no longer fat. Bulling and lack of participation has taught them to eat healthy. Where as the work-a-holics are now the fat ones.

Unless there is evidence of effect of any of these policies its just a waste of time.