This was very entertaining from start to finish. I found Sam's death to be just really gut-wrenchingly sad. All of the stories of how Michael basically obliterated the Pegasus galaxy by perfecting the Hybrid drug were actually really plausible within the storyline.

Ronin and Todd together was great.

The bit at the end was a shocker and a great ending. I thought they would actually rescue Teyla at the end. Good cliffie.

Oh, and did I say that seeing Sam ram that ship into the Hive brought a tear to my eye? Just unexpected.

Anyway, my only complaint is the inability to keep continuity. All previous times using the Stargate for time travel, the entrance/exit has always been the same Stargate and/or location. Also, why is Rodney messing with the programming of the Stargate network?

I loved the way Ronon went out, fighting along side of his former enemy against their new enemy.

The cliffhanger kind of threw me. I was expecting Shepard to wake up and the Rodney hologram not reappearing/power outage/sand/etc... and that would be the end.

Season 5 is being reported to air in the summer. Not 100% confirmed, but word is spreading from numerous sources.

Overall, a VERY good episode imo. A good idea as well I've always liked the idea of the team travelling forwards in time, as they always seem to travel back and forwards is more interesting imo.

Michael is turning out to be SUCH a good bad guy though, I LOVE him. He's actually a bad guy who sees his plans through and doesn't make stupid mistakes and get stopped like so many Goa'uld did. He is one of if not THE best bad guy either show's had.

But still, the dark tones of what happened. That's lovely I like the fact that situations are just getting darker. The amount of for-shadowing is incredibly high and now there is nothing in this timeline the team have that can prevent the events Michael will do. We know something will happen at some point to stop him, but for now, the team has no extra intel then they did before. I'm hoping this arc of what Michael does is at LEAST stretched out to the half way point of season 5, and we see some of these things come to fruition.

But this was how to have a good episode, a good story, a strong one. Well written and paced, we found out a lot of information about the past but it was all told well and in a very interesting way. But a lot of praise for this episode. 9-10/10.

Also as for how Woolsey was in this episode, any growth for the character comes after their first appearance. And we only saw him at the start. Will Woolsey be this way at the start of season 5? Yes, because that's how he is now he won't just 'suddenly' be different you can't expect that. But will we see growth of his character, almost definitely. I highly doubt we will just see the same character at the end of season 5. That's one of the reasons the producers picked him imo.

If the writers solve the 'how did the team get out of there' by 'oh the Daedalus beamed them out just in time' I will throw something!

But a good end to a good season, overall I've got to say that season 4 was either the 1st or 2nd best season, probably 1st. There was a good consistency with episodes, with even the worst episode of the season imo (Missing) says a lot about the season. As season 1 + 2 were filled with way worse episodes then that. That's the only episode I would really consider not that good. But good characterisation, good arcs and plots, consistency was present. The only thing that didn't really work for me this season was Carter, wasn't there enough and felt a bit passive. But that's my only real gripe with the season imo. But a good season.

This post has been edited by Invisible Painting: Mar 8th 2008, 11:26 AM

I expected a cliffhangar, but I expected it to be once Shep got back. So the episode lasted longer than I was expecting.

Since we already knew about what happened with SG1 and the solar flare, and Rodney explained it to John, why was Sam, at first reluctant to accept what John said? I didn't quite understand that one.

I liked how Ronon and Todd fought to the end to defeat their united enemy. That was a very nice touch.

Of course Sam going down with her ship was a classic ending. I loved how she took out Michael's hive ships.

Okay, so in this alternate timeline we get Woolsey in command of Atlantis. He's a jerk, no matter what timeline he is in. Season 5,

» Click to Show Spoiler «

We know that Woolsey is actually coming to lead Atlantis, so was this a foreshadowing of how he will be? He will remain an idiot!

How cool was it that Lorne became the leader of SGC! I really enjoyed that one.

Rodney's sister was in the episode for just a moment. I wasn't expecting that one.

All in all a good season ending and a good cliffhanger.

Ye this was a nice cliffhanger. I've expected another ending though

QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Mar 8th 2008, 6:22 PM)

Season 5 is being reported to air in the summer. Not 100% confirmed, but word is spreading from numerous sources.

Overall, a VERY good episode imo. A good idea as well I've always liked the idea of the team travelling forwards in time, as they always seem to travel back and forwards is more interesting imo.

Michael is turning out to be SUCH a good bad guy though, I LOVE him. He's actually a bad guy who sees his plans through and doesn't make stupid mistakes and get stopped like so many Goa'uld did. He is one of if not THE best bad guy either show's had.

But still, the dark tones of what happened. That's lovely I like the fact that situations are just getting darker. The amount of for-shadowing is incredibly high and now there is nothing in this timeline the team have that can prevent the events Michael will do. We know something will happen at some point to stop him, but for now, the team has no extra intel then they did before. I'm hoping this arc of what Michael does is at LEAST stretched out to the half way point of season 5, and we see some of these things come to fruition.

But this was how to have a good episode, a good story, a strong one. Well written and paced, we found out a lot of information about the past but it was all told well and in a very interesting way. But a lot of praise for this episode. 9-10/10.

Also as for how Woolsey was in this episode, any growth for the character comes after their first appearance. And we only saw him at the start. Will Woolsey be this way at the start of season 5? Yes, because that's how he is now he won't just 'suddenly' be different you can't expect that. But will we see growth of his character, almost definitely. I highly doubt we will just see the same character at the end of season 5. That's one of the reasons the producers picked him imo.

If the writers solve the 'how did the team get out of there' by 'oh the Daedalus beamed them out just in time' I will throw something!

But a good end to a good season, overall I've got to say that season 4 was either the 1st or 2nd best season, probably 1st. There was a good consistency with episodes, with even the worst episode of the season imo (Missing) says a lot about the season. As season 1 + 2 were filled with way worse episodes then that. That's the only episode I would really consider not that good. But good characterisation, good arcs and plots, consistency was present. The only thing that didn't really work for me this season was Carter, wasn't there enough and felt a bit passive. But that's my only real gripe with the season imo. But a good season.

Ye i think that is one if the best seasons so far.I wanted a little more action in this episode but it was good, had pace.I'm waiting for season 5 to see how the things will work.I really think that Michael's arc will stretch all the season

Ye this was a nice cliffhanger. I've expected another ending thoughYe i think that is one if the best seasons so far.I wanted a little more action in this episode but it was good, had pace.I'm waiting for season 5 to see how the things will work.I really think that Michael's arc will stretch all the season

Definitely a great episode, though they kind of skipped the science part of scifi on this one.

The Atlantis gate never had to be hacked by the SGC to get it working, it had its base code intact. There's no reason the failsafe should have been off.

Further, the phoenix died way too easily. Those new asgard shields are a lot tougher than that.

But that aside the epsiode was intense and moving, and the cliffhanger definitely surprised me. I fully expected a warm reunion with Teyla, not annihilation!!

I definitely saw Carter ramming the Hive coming, but it didn't diminish the shock effect or the emotional impact. It strongly reminded me of Apollo ramming the Pegasus into that Basestar in BSG, except he didn't die.

McKay did say this situation was different than what happened at the SGC. Looks like the same thing that happened to Teonas is going to happen to the new home of Atlantis is 48,000 years... I guess that isn't unusual, really.

You would think they would expect traps from Michael by now, but I guess not...

I liked the level of detail, like with all the futuristic technology they were showing.

I felt so sad when McKay finally found happiness, only to have it wrenched away.

So the timeline will change... but how? Will Rodney and Jennifer still find each other? Rodney definitely seemed more at ease in the future that we saw. Maybe Keller will find a way to calm him down in general.

I really hope Woolsey doesn't come over and act like a total ass. Maybe it will be different, since the circumstances will have changed.

EDIT: McKay had to manually override the correlative update program to get the Atlantis gate back on the grid. His tampering may have inadvertantly messed something up.

I don't understand one thing if Woolsie replaced carter after she died why is he going to appear in the 5th season after all. Ok i know its because of the actors but how will they explain it in the show, will she die eventually or what.

I don't understand one thing if Woolsie replaced carter after she died why is he going to appear in the 5th season after all. Ok i know its because of the actors but how will they explain it in the show, will she die eventually or what.

1 - Shephard is still in frozen and is waiting for Mc'Kay to unfreeze him, so it's all a dream/

2 - Shephard never went into the future and it was just a trick by Michael to get some of the key people from atlantis killed. A bit like that SG-1 episode where they wake up and they are told that they are in the future, but actualy are in a Gou'ald base.

My thoughts on how season 5 will continue.1 - Shephard is still in frozen and is waiting for Mc'Kay to unfreeze him, so it's all a dream/2 - Shephard never went into the future and it was just a trick by Michael to get some of the key people from atlantis killed. A bit like that SG-1 episode where they wake up and they are told that they are in the future, but actualy are in a Gou'ald base.

Wouldn't that cheapen everything that John went through?

You mean the time Hathor captured them? End of S2 and beginning of 3... Out of Mind and Into the Fire...

Group: New Members
Posts: 2
Joined: March 8th 2008
Member No.: 18,142
Gender: Not Telling

I thought this episode was so good that I had to sign up and talk about it.

So ok we know some of the events won't happen because Shepard making it back to his timeline has already set changes into motion but he did gain some key info. They now know that long term exposure to the Hoffman drug is bad. They also know that Michael is a much bigger threat then they thought. Other than that I think everything the Holograph McKay told Shepard is different now since most of it was based off Shepard disappearing.

I do have one question that I might have missed. Why aren't they rebuilding the gate bridge? The only part of the gate bridge that was "broken" was the midway point. If they rebuild the midway point won't it work again?

This seemed to be more of a series ender, i.e., the life they ended of living and how they died rather than a series cliffhanger.

Dr. Keller will have to die in the next two years (as predicted by the timeline) because of her repeated exposure to the Hoffman virus. When the series renews, what will be Shepherd's responsibility for informing the others be? Will he remember anything as it will happen in the future and hasn't happened yet?

I liked how Todd and Ronin died, allies destroying a common enemy - not what you would predict but believeable given the circumstances. Sam ramming three wraith ships - it is what we have come to expect from her - still hard to watch.

I love that Major Loren made it to General at the SGC, but I remembered the "Runner" episode where we first encounter Ronin with Loren and McKay are walking through the forest looking for the others and Loren can't believe that Shepherd hasn't shot Rodney earlier and now he is the only one McKay can use to get back to Atlantis. Given what they had all gone through and what Loren had seen, I can see where he would give McKay the benefit of the doubt and get him to Atlantis.

The two knit-picks I have - given what happened the previous week with Dr. Beckett, wouldn't John ask what happend to the clone Beckett? Expecially since he was going to enter the same type of pod? I half expected to see Beckett in the ajoining pod. And Shepherd asking who won the the series, superbowl, Stanley Cup, etc., seemed to be more of a Jack O'Neill line, Shepherd has only seemed interested in football.

Still a pretty good episode - its fun watching the Sci-Fi channel showing the series all over again and watching how the different characters have grown.

This seemed to be more of a series ender, i.e., the life they ended of living and how they died rather than a series cliffhanger.

Dr. Keller will have to die in the next two years (as predicted by the timeline) because of her repeated exposure to the Hoffman virus. When the series renews, what will be Shepherd's responsibility for informing the others be? Will he remember anything as it will happen in the future and hasn't happened yet?

I liked how Todd and Ronin died, allies destroying a common enemy - not what you would predict but believeable given the circumstances. Sam ramming three wraith ships - it is what we have come to expect from her - still hard to watch.

I love that Major Loren made it to General at the SGC, but I remembered the "Runner" episode where we first encounter Ronin with Loren and McKay are walking through the forest looking for the others and Loren can't believe that Shepherd hasn't shot Rodney earlier and now he is the only one McKay can use to get back to Atlantis. Given what they had all gone through and what Loren had seen, I can see where he would give McKay the benefit of the doubt and get him to Atlantis.

The two knit-picks I have - given what happened the previous week with Dr. Beckett, wouldn't John ask what happend to the clone Beckett? Expecially since he was going to enter the same type of pod? I half expected to see Beckett in the ajoining pod. And Shepherd asking who won the the series, superbowl, Stanley Cup, etc., seemed to be more of a Jack O'Neill line, Shepherd has only seemed interested in football.

Still a pretty good episode - its fun watching the Sci-Fi channel showing the series all over again and watching how the different characters have grown.

It was a cliffhanger episode... We know there is a next season, so how could it have felt like a series ender, especially since time rolled back when John returned to Atlantis?

Well no she would have continued her exposure as she treated people. She just has to be more careful from now on, so that she doesn't die such a terrible death.

He will tell the group certain things, and individuals certain things. But he has to be careful, because foreknowledge could ruin the possibilities. For instance, telling Rodney could make him nervous (or overconfident) and that would sabotage the relationship between he and Keller.

Lorne** McKAy grows on people.

I was thinking the same thing: What ever happened to Beckett? TPTB may have left it open purposely.

I haven't seen any of the s5 rumors, so I don't the how detailed they are, but maybe he just becomes a permanent advisor to Atlantis? We might get a dual leadership like when we had Weir/Sheppard and all disputes along with it.

It felt more like a series ending (I know it has been renewed) because it was so tidy, clearing up all the loose ends - it it was a series ending, would you have felt cheated or would you have felt a sense of closure now that almost all had been revealed? As for who makes it out of the wreckage - I think all do.

If Woolsey comes on board, I would expect/hope that his character would grow exponentially in humanity, he did show potential when he went to General Hammon and later to the President with information on Senator Kinsey - may he look less at the bottom line on Atlantis.

Wow, great ep. I would be tempted to call this the best of the season, but I still feel that Be All My Sin's Remember'd takes that honor. 2nd best then .

Interesting story and an interesting way of telling it too. I was a tad annoyed that despite the fact that they mined 1969 for a story element they might have remembered the solution to that ep (Cassandra's auto-dialer thingy) rather than the convoluted Naqueda generator & friends plan. Meh I guess they're restricting the amount of SG-1 crossover.

One question I have though regarding Michael's motivation in wiping out the Humans....why?! I understand why he would want to kill the Wraith; their feeding habits make them a threat. But the Humans? The Hybrids donít need to hurt the Humans to live and vice-versa, why canít the hybrids just replace the Wraith and then everyone can just all get along? [/naivete]I guess the answer is that Michael is just an angry jerk who hates everyone, and the Humans in Pegasus would probably be xenophobic gits. I just wish the answer was more complex than that though.

I must admit the form of the cliffhanger at the end was a bit off-putting. I expected something similar to the end of Politics, maybe Sheppard saying "we are all in big trouble" or something along those lines, as he prepares to inform them of potential future events. The explosion...seemed a little, I don't know, dodgy for an end of season cliffhanger. It's like something you'd see on a trashy TV soap. For something like Atlantis, such a scenario should be regulated to a "commercial break" cliffhanger.

I'm not sure if I like the Rodney/Keller thing or not. It was kinda sweet in that context I guess but whether it would work in the environment of the altered timeline I have no idea. At the very least it will silence all those doubters from Trio who just assumed that the drinks thing at the end of that ep was just a friends thing...It's fairly obvious from this ep there was probably something more behind it. But still what about Ronon? Oh the soapy angst yet to come! (Seriously I hope Atlantis doesnít descend to this level).

Overall this season has been incredible. A bunch of interesting arcs opened and/or expanded on, and they've intersected quite often too. Some actual character to the Wraith now, who aren't anywhere near as one-dimensional as they were during the first couple of seasons.