Malcolm wrote:There are experiences in the Dzoghen path that are shared. There are experiences in the Dzogchen path that are unique to that path. Rainbow body comes from the latter experiences, and not the former.

That may well be true. Those are the differences that I have looking for.

Well, then, you need to find a Dzogchen master in whom you have faith, recieve transmission and do whatever he or she says.

Jeff wrote:[ As you said above, all of the streams (of consciousness/awareness) come back to the heart.

"Awareness back to the "heart". Oh!

Then this i leave here : "...have devotion to enlightened beings and compassion for unenlightened beings. Devotion and compassion are a universal panacea, the single sufficient technique. A famous quote says, 'In the moment of love, the nature of emptiness dawns nakedly'. In addition, there are practices called the development and completion stages. All these practices facilitate nondistraction".http://www.scribd.com/doc/27626668/Ulti ... n-Rinpoche

Jeff wrote:[ As you said above, all of the streams (of consciousness/awareness) come back to the heart.

"Awareness back to the "heart". Oh!

One may also say ... all of the streams spread out from the heart.

Sönam

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.- Longchen Rabjam -

Jeff wrote:[ As you said above, all of the streams (of consciousness/awareness) come back to the heart.

"Awareness back to the "heart". Oh!

Then this i leave here : "...have devotion to enlightened beings and compassion for unenlightened beings. Devotion and compassion are a universal panacea, the single sufficient technique. A famous quote says, 'In the moment of love, the nature of emptiness dawns nakedly'. In addition, there are practices called the development and completion stages. All these practices facilitate nondistraction".http://www.scribd.com/doc/27626668/Ulti ... n-Rinpoche

If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

Jeff wrote:Could you describe how it would be different? Does not a senior student feel light/divine love in the presence of someone who has attained Rigpa? (Divine love "feels" more like a combination of "peace" and "joy" than what we normally describe as romantic love.)

Divine love?

Dzogchen is nothing like this. Its not like New Age love and light B.S.

From a post by muni...

Tibetan teacher Tsoknyi Rinpoche describes the layers of self that cover over our "essence love," and the way that mindfulness reconnects us to our true nature.

Jeff wrote:Could you describe how it would be different? Does not a senior student feel light/divine love in the presence of someone who has attained Rigpa? (Divine love "feels" more like a combination of "peace" and "joy" than what we normally describe as romantic love.)

Divine love?

Dzogchen is nothing like this. Its not like New Age love and light B.S.

From a post by muni...

Tibetan teacher Tsoknyi Rinpoche describes the layers of self that cover over our "essence love," and the way that mindfulness reconnects us to our true nature.

But he is not really talking about Dzogchen. What he is describing is from a common Mahāyan̄a point of view.

The Dzogchen approach to developing compassion is not to cultivate compassion through mindfulness and so on, observing how one feels, etc. The Dzogchen approach is based on discovering one's real nature. Once that is discovered, it is impossible not to have compassion for all sentient beings who are ignorant of their real nature -- that is "essencelove".

However, SSJ3 is correct: Dzogchen is not connected with so called New age love and light trips.

But he is not really talking about Dzogchen. What he is describing is from a common Mahāyan̄a point of view.

The Dzogchen approach to developing compassion is not to cultivate compassion through mindfulness and so on, observing how one feels, etc. The Dzogchen approach is based on discovering one's real nature. Once that is discovered, it is impossible not to have compassion for all sentient beings who are ignorant of their real nature -- that is "essencelove".

However, SSJ3 is correct: Dzogchen is not connected with so called New age love and light trips.

I understood his point in the lecture to be focused on mindfulness. Peace/love/compassion was just an expression of the flavor or "feel" of the experience of mindfulness. As he said... The peaceful feeling of a comfortable easy chair at the end of a day.

What words would you (or anyone else) use to describe the "feeling" of mindfulness from a Dzogchen perspective?

Jeff wrote:What words would you (or anyone else) use to describe the "feeling" of mindfulness from a Dzogchen perspective?

Mindfulness is just mindfulness -- it simply means that you know what you are doing when you are doing. For example, when typing a post, you know you are typing a post -- it is not different than any other form of mindfulness. The caveat only is that if you are a Dzogchen practitioner, than part of your mindfulness is informed by your discovery of your real nature.

Otherwise, there is no genuinely special form of mindfulness called "Dzogchen mindfulness".

Jeff wrote:What words would you (or anyone else) use to describe the "feeling" of mindfulness from a Dzogchen perspective?

Mindfulness is just mindfulness -- it simply means that you know what you are doing when you are doing. For example, when typing a post, you know you are typing a post -- it is not different than any other form of mindfulness. The caveat only is that if you are a Dzogchen practitioner, than part of your mindfulness is informed by your discovery of your real nature.

Otherwise, there is no genuinely special form of mindfulness called "Dzogchen mindfulness".

I agree that mindfulness is just mindfulness (when residing in mindfulness) and everything just feels "normal".

But, when for the first time experiencing (slipping into) mindfulness... Was there no "peaceful" feel of that "easy chair"? My experience has been a "growth" in being able to stay mindful (focused on the moment).

Jeff wrote:What words would you (or anyone else) use to describe the "feeling" of mindfulness from a Dzogchen perspective?

Mindfulness is just mindfulness -- it simply means that you know what you are doing when you are doing. For example, when typing a post, you know you are typing a post -- it is not different than any other form of mindfulness. The caveat only is that if you are a Dzogchen practitioner, than part of your mindfulness is informed by your discovery of your real nature.

Otherwise, there is no genuinely special form of mindfulness called "Dzogchen mindfulness".

I agree that mindfulness is just mindfulness (when residing in mindfulness) and everything just feels "normal".

But, when for the first time experiencing (slipping into) mindfulness... Was there no "peaceful" feel of that "easy chair"? My experience has been a "growth" in being able to stay mindful (focused on the moment).

Maybe I'm wrong here, or I categorize my experience wrongly, but for me, mindfulness has no special role at all. When I say mindfulness I mean paying attention, being focused. I would even say that it's all about dropping this kind of behavior. When one does it, he is completely aware of reality, but he doesn't know what he is doing, and as such, there is no desire to manipulate and change conditions.