I was surprised to find today that the M*ds in my area are switching from Sioux Cheif to Watts for their PEX fittings.

The salesman assured me that fittings, rings, and tools are interchangable....

I wasn't crazy about Sioux Chief anyway (seems a little flimsy). I think it is time that I switch to Wirsbo before I really get into the meat of the project.

Steve

Click to expand...

I use Watts Waterpex with the cinch clamp rings. I would go with Wirsbo if I was in construction plumbing as I do feel it is better but, in repair you have to be ready for everything and this allowed me maximum versatility with as little tooling and inventory possible.

My brother installed some 3/4" copper elbows a week ago that leaked at the coner, two of them from the same bag. Bought at a supply house, not a box store, not made in the USA though. Even the copper is going down hill. You'll have lots of work if you don't get nailed by some defective product lawsuit, not just PEX.

The Zurn Lawsuit is also involves the brass fittings as being incorrectly designed and manufactured. The fittings IMHO (I am not a machining and metals expert) are defective as a result of being too thin after machining with too small a radius built into the machined ridges of the barb resulting in a weakness.

Pex tubing is a great material that is made by many manufacturers. It is resistant to corrosion & chemicals, scale buildup, freeze damage, water hammer & other noises, & erosion from high velocity. It is very inert so water purity is not an issue & it retains heat in hot water applications. It is inexpensive compared to copper both in material cost and labor to install. The material lends itself to repiping very well as it is tubing that can be threaded through smaller/fewer openings in walls and ceilings than rigid pipes. The material has a proven track record extending back to its development in the late 1960's with years of usage and billions of feet installed.

You are judging an entire product catagory by the results of an "Cheap" brand sold in big box stores! This is the equivelent in saying all gas tank type water heaters are junk based on the experience of installing a Whirlpool Flamegard/Flamelok water heater sold by Lowes or, saying all large dia, flush valve toilets are junk based on an experience of installing an Am. Std. Champion toilet also a top seller at big box. When plastic tubing came out in the late 70's- 80's there were 2 choices PEX and Polybutylene. We picked the wrong one and went with Polybutylene while in Europe they went with PEX. Now stung by our experience with Polybutylene we are resisting the idea of using PEX, based on our experience with Polybutylene. Add to this the 2 defects of "Cheap Stuff" we have plenty of ammo for those who are resistant to the idea of using PEX. Does this completely negate the successful history of PEX use here and in Europe? Should we base our opinion of every other PEX manufacturer based on what has happened with Kitec & Zurn?

I say if you do you will find your self hanging out with the dinosaurs! When you go and bid jobs in Copper and CPVC against PEX you will find yourself losing the bid! The material and labor costs will kill your bid its that simple.

The rep from zurn says the problem with their fittings are because of the water, not the product, what else would he say. PEX is being used a lot in areas where the water kills the copper which causes the problem. Zurn is working hard to make a corrosion resistant fitting to go along with their pipe. I had a lot of their fittings for doing repair work in manufactured homes, I returned them. I almost got talked into doing a new house with it, glad I stuck with copper now.

Rugged is correct for now, the brass fittings for PEX are better used and worth more as scrap.

I have always been a big fan of the manifold systems because of how well they work, but for now I will stick with copper on any new work and only use PEX for repair in manufactured homes.

No matter what type of piping you use, they will eventually degrade depending on the type of water condition. We have an area in Minnesota where they can't use copper because the water simply eats holes in the piping. Pex is affected by UV and the brass fittings are affected by dezincification. The key is to use the right type of piping for the right water condition. This is where professional plumbers need to reeducate themselves and think of the long term. You can no longer simply install whatever is cheap or available. You have to know which pipe is right for the situation.

I just had my fourth brass or copper Pex fitting crack and burst open. This time, it was in my attic and leaked for about 10 minutes before being cut off. It flooded bedroom, laundry, & started into kitchen when realized. To put it mildly... It is a nightmare.

My house is 9 years old and I have had a different leak starting the 4th year almost every other year now. The fittings seem to be corroded all over the outside and inside... then they just fail. I thought they were ZurnPex & mailed them the fittings, but they sent them back to me saying they were NIBCO. NIBCO refered me to Chubb Insurance where the kind lady there told me that this was not going to be covered by them. I just sent her another email, but she has not responded.

If anyone has better direction as to whom I can contact for some help, I would certainly appreciate it. I know my mother had a house piped with polybutl. & Dow came and took care of the problem. Does anyone have information on this company stepping up and doing the right thing for their fitting failures?

Red, that's not entirely true. Uponor also has a lawsuit filed against them and so does Nibco. Uponor's is against the old style crimp system they once had and sold off and Nibco's is the pipe itself which has a nasty habit of separating down it's length.

Stamp on the side says CPI Pex - NSF or something. It is very corroded on ones I have been able to access so far and replace. Could not even read the sides on the first few that failed. Are these stamps Uponor?

Red, that's not entirely true. Uponor also has a lawsuit filed against them and so does Nibco. Uponor's is against the old style crimp system they once had and sold off and Nibco's is the pipe itself which has a nasty habit of separating down it's length.

Click to expand...

In the world of defective PEX products, and ambulance chasers many things can change in the 2 years since I made that post...

Stamp on the side says CPI Pex - NSF or something. It is very corroded on ones I have been able to access so far and replace. Could not even read the sides on the first few that failed. Are these stamps Uponor?

Paul

Click to expand...

Your failed PEX is CPI DuraPEX which became orphaned in a move where CPI went out of business and ceased to exist while selling the rights to make their product to Nibco.

There is another thread on this forum with several others that have had problems with CPI DuraPEX, Nibco and Chubb I would suggest using the forum search to find the thread and contact the others regarding what is going on there. Last I heard they didn't have anything going on.

Your problem is slightly different as the failure involved the fitting failing and not the tube itself. Their problem was the tubing splitting.

Yea. It seems like they are trying to do that. Sucks. I have tried the new plastic fittings. I am hoping they work better. I am sure it will not be long again until the next ones fail. Guess, I am one of those suckers they screwed. Will have to deal with the issues as they happen.