Against Coldplay

Seven out of ten times, Coldplay sound almost exactly like U2—the U2 that exists now, not the wiry, feral U2 of 1980 (which would be a decent idea). U2 have not broken up. This is inefficient. Coldplay should consider copying Big Star or The Monkees.

Yes. I don’t hate Coldplay with the fiery passion that I direct at, say, John Mayer, but I’m generally offended by the fact that people think they’re good. I mean, they are fine. They are generally inoffensive, even if I can’t stand listening to them for more than a few seconds before wanting to stab myself in the temple? But dear god, they are not good.

87 Responses to Against Coldplay

I used to do crazy drugs with my girlfriend years before. We’d listen to coldplay if one of us started to freak out. It was actually really effective for calming people on pcp-like drugs. Outside of that I think they’re really intolerable.

I’ve never gotten the appeal of Coldplay. Whenever they come on the radio, I invariably do this mumble sing-along, usually to a different Coldplay song than is actually on the radio because they all sound exactly the same so you really can sing over one song with another. Its silly that they get treated like the second-coming of R.E.M. when they just do “Clocks” over and over again.

My favorite line every about Coldplay comes from the AV Club on their latest single: “‘Every Teardrop Is A Waterfall,”’a name seemingly chosen by an extremely sarcastic committee tasked with producing the ultimate Coldplay song title.”

Now there’s some goood English rock. I’ve also inherited my mom’s infatuation with David Bowie. Though not her liking of ColdPlay. They’re okay, but they just don’t rock hard enough for me. Green Day is about the only active English band I like right now. And I hate their old stuff.
U2 has it’s moments, but I don’t like them enough to plunk down a hundred bucks.
By the way, when they toured in my town, here’s the dude I saw instead.

I actually don’t mind Coldplay at all, and I have never quite figured out what the mad-on for Coldplay is. I asked once, though, and apparently it’s the fanbase. But past that… the points listed in the article could be applied to nearly any pop star who has ever existed, and yet Coldplay.

I don’t even like them enough to be all fussed about people not liking them! Which I think is the gripping point for me: there’s nothing substantive about them, really, and so people having strong feelings about them is strange. (Not like “how dare you”, but like “aroo?”.) It’d be like having firm opinions about water.

On the con side, and for reasons I really cannot figure out, he has one of those faces that I really want to punch. *shrugs*

The latest album is kinda lame, admittedly and unfortunately. But you’re really really wrong if you think A Rush of Blood to the Head is bad. Its awesome. They’re no U2 two, and they sound better anyway. Second people like them because they’re original and their songs are listenable. Chris Martin’s piano in ARBH was wonderful.
1.U2 and Radiohead do not do piano, and if they do its not as half as good as CP.
2.Radiohead’s lyrics are too out there. Some of them just make no sense.
3.Bono’s moaning is annoying at times. Christ Martin doesn’t moan on and on in songs.
4.Bono is not worth 900 million(capitalism gone awry).
Not every mainstream artist is a copycat or bad.

Tom Waits is beautiful like a face with a gap tooth smile.ans one eye bigger than the other, or a broken down cast iron boiler converted in use to a flower pot. Weeds on the path and a broken tread on the stairs or two.

Not as big as Radiohead or Tom Waits, but I hope he’s an artist more feminists feel they can get behind. This song (the one I’ve linked to) is all about empowering women to be more active in every scene – from rap to being a sister. It’s really great.

Err, huh? Isn’t it a teensy bit passe to be hating on Coldplay, now, at the end of 2011? (And might I add nearly as much as whining about how wayward U2 have gone) It’s getting to Jefferson Airplane/Starship level.

Thank you. I hate Coldplay with a passion that burns like 1000 fiery suns.

I loved U2 in my early teens, but couldn’t really get behind anything they did after Zooropa. (except hold me thrill me kiss me kill me, I thought that song was decent).

I like the idea of Tom Waits more than I think I actually like Tom Waits.

More people need to listen to the first five or six albums put out by Hawksley Workman. That man is crazy talented. And I have an undying love for The Tragically Hip (except for Music At Work, that was kind of a crappy album). I’m kind of a Can-Rock loyalist (except Nickelback. Fuck Nickelback. Stupid Douche-rock giving my country a bad name).

Oh man, I hate it when people like music that I don’t like. Don’t you? Movies and art, too. Those people who like different things than I do just don’t *get it*. People who don’t like the same things I do need to go listen to the music that I like, and eat the food I enjoy.

(I don’t even like Coldplay, but I don’t see the point in ragging on stuff that other people enjoy. What does anyone get out of that? Jill – do you really think Coldplay fans will see this post and realize the error of their ways? No, they’ll resent the person telling them they have no taste and immediately tune you and Sasha out.)

I never really understood the Coldplay hatedom. Maybe it’s because I never listened much to the bands they supposedly rip off, so I didn’t get the “this is such a rip off” vibe. Or…I dunno. I’ve always enjoyed them. Except X&Y. That was pretty bland all around.

Mercedes Allen: Even so, I can’t understand how anyone at all can hear “Talk” and not see it as ripped from Kraftwerk’s “Computer Love.”

Does it count as ripping off if they asked for and received permission from the band before using the melody? If so that would indict a good portion of hip-hop and electronic artists.

If you don’t like a band than don’t listen to them, seems like a waste of energy to spend time hating them.

Normally I’d agree with the “if you don’t like it don’t do it” sentiment but music is different. The problem in music is that, even with all of the advances in DIY technology, its still expensive to make an album and get it out there. A band like Coldplay eats up resources, cheapens the art form, and makes it harder for artists who actually give a shit about being something other than the soundtrack to a 30-something’s awkward attempt to remain hip to get a break. Instead of funding recording for new artists doing interesting things record companies are looking for the next Coldplay (or Green Day, or U2, or Nickleback).

Meanwhile, you have entire genres of music which remain basically unknown in the US. Whole groups of artists doing new and interesting things who either don’t come to play live in the US at all or who do so mainly because they want a US audience to see them and accept that the American market isn’t going to make them real money. There is no goddamn excuse for Coldplay, especially when you’ve got a band like Opeth releasing things like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1pi7Dn87mY

XtinaS:
I don’t even like them enough to be all fussed about people not liking them! Which I think is the gripping point for me: there’s nothing substantive about them, really, and so people having strong feelings about them is strange. (Not like “how dare you”, but like “aroo?”.) It’d be like having firm opinions about water.

I actually like Coldplay, much in the way you describe. It’s my morning commute music, actually, because if I’m awake-ish, it’s soothing, but if I’m sleepy I can have it as background noise that is consistent enough not to be jarring, but “noisy” enough to block out other train passengers. It’s like the perfect music for that. I like Opeth, but I can’t sleep to them on the train.

I like them infinitely better than U2, mostly for the reasons Melanie up in comment 8 mentions.

However, there’s a piano part in “Death and all of His Friends” that I swear they stole from something else, and it naggles at me every time I hear it, even when I’m asleep.

William: I wouldn’t underestimate Opeth. They played the biggest club in my town recently, (didn’t go, suffering from concert fatigue and cash flow problems) and are getting quite a lot of airplay on certain stations. I’m considering getting their latest album, but I want to hear more. I mean, they might not be selling out stadiums, but they’re doing pretty well. That said, I wish we could attract more symphonic metal bands, or metal bands with front women. We have one local female led band here, and to be honest, I’m not sold on them.
Although maybe I’m a little biased, because I live in a town where people will listen to *anything.* Spoken word? Yep. Hip-hop and R&B that doesn’t suck? Yessiree. Dudes with washtubs? Check. Four guys with kickdrums and three guitars? Not only will people listen to that, they’ll pack the club.

William – No, actually a label having a big seller (especially in this era of apalling record sales), brings money into the label and allows the label to fund smaller acts. Think Bjork at One Little Indian, The Prodigy at XL and Oasis at Creation (the latter until Alan McGee fritted all the money away on drugs). Certainly, there will be bands at Coldplay’s label who are only there because Coldplay’s royalties are supporting them. Labels need the money to invest in new bands and a guaranteed unit shifter like Coldplay brings it to the

Just like authors bemoan the popularity of celeb autobiographies, they know that they sell by the ton and help to keep the publishing houses afloat.

In an a world where music is so easily accessible and you can hear everything instantly, you’d think people would have better taste, but sadly not. As for metal bands, they tend to do very well with out ever being near the mainstream, especially when it comes to touring, which is now the biggest guaranteed money earner. The market for metal is there, without the mainstream having to take much notice of it.

andie: andie 10.29.2011 at 2:14 pm
Thank you. I hate Coldplay with a passion that burns like 1000 fiery suns.

I loved U2 in my early teens, but couldn’t really get behind anything they did after Zooropa. (except hold me thrill me kiss me kill me, I thought that song was decent).

I like the idea of Tom Waits more than I think I actually like Tom Waits.

More people need to listen to the first five or six albums put out by Hawksley Workman. That man is crazy talented. And I have an undying love for The Tragically Hip (except for Music At Work, that was kind of a crappy album). I’m kind of a Can-Rock loyalist (except Nickelback. Fuck Nickelback. Stupid Douche-rock giving my country a bad name).

I like the idea of Tom Waits more than I think I actually like Tom Waits.

FWIW I feel this way about Bjork and Radiohead. Lurve lurve LURVE Tom Waits, but I just couldn’t get into ALICE or BLOOD MONEY. I also ‘ship Emmylou Harris, but her latest HARD BARGAIN didn’t grab me. So, you know, to quote the Chief Dan George from Little Big Man: “Sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn’t.”

Can’t believe I forgot to mention DOA, Ch 3, The Sub-Numans and The Forgotten Rebels. Plus the greatest fictional punk band ever Hard Core Logo (though from what I hear the sequel is so bad it can make one forget how good the original was.)

Taste in music is entirely subjective like many other forms of art in this world. To be honest I am not a fan of Coldplay but I don’t hate them either. I’ve listened to one song or two that I thought was nice but that’s about it. As for U2, haven’t really listened to them a lot either but I liked electrical storm. The only musician I can say I really hate with a passion is Justin Bieber but I don’t spend time focusing on him rather I pretend he simply does not exist and listen to music I find enjoyable.

Safiya Outlines: Just like authors bemoan the popularity of celeb autobiographies, they know that they sell by the ton and help to keep the publishing houses afloat.

Not in my experience. I mean, yes, crap like Snooki’s memoir sells tons, but the days when publishers were run by literature-loving types who liked to use the proceeds from big-selling crap to fund the prestige projects of actual decent writers are long gone. Nowadays the Big Six want/expect every book to be a celeb book, every children’s fantasy to be Harry Potter, every vampire to be Twilight. On the plus side, there’s been a proliferation of small presses trying to pick up the slack.

From a contrastingly uninformed standpoint, a similar thing seems to be happening in music, at least rock, as more bands move toward indie labels or even no labels. I don’t know if the cause is similar, though (i.e. the corporate drive to blockbuster or nothing).

EG: I think some of the drift toward self-released albums and self-run labels is due to a shift in technology. You don’t have to have all the big clunky machinery anymore, now all people need is some place with nice acoustics, a space for the band to play in, and a bunch of computers. That said, it ain’t foolproof. One of the big indy bands around here has a frontman with a recording studio in his apartment. He got burglarized, and two other bands lost an album each. (It’s all good though. They had a big honking benefit to raise funds for replacements and to compensate the affected bands.

Fat Steve:Can’t believe I forgot to mention DOA, Ch 3, The Sub-Numans and The Forgotten Rebels. Plus the greatest fictional punk band ever Hard Core Logo (though from what I hear the sequel is so bad it can make one forget how good the original was.)

HCL is my favorite movie ever. I’m a little afraid to see the sequel because frankly I don’t think it needed a sequel at all. From what I’ve heard I like the way they tied it in with the original (singer obsessed with Joe Dick) but I’m not sure that’s enough to make me watch it. I kind of have a hate-on for sequels.

I’m not greatly familiar with the hardcore punk scene in CA, but I will say that Forgotten Rebels have provided a lot of fodder for campfire sing-a-longs.

Politicalguineapig:
EG: I think some of the drift toward self-released albums and self-run labels is due to a shift in technology. You don’t have to have all the big clunky machinery anymore, now all people need is some place with nice acoustics, a space for the band to play in, and a bunch of computers. That said, it ain’t foolproof. One of the big indy bands around here has a frontman with a recording studio in his apartment. He got burglarized, and two other bands lost an album each. (It’s all good though. They had a big honking benefit to raise funds for replacements and to compensate the affected bands.

The technology and the Internet has done a lot to level the playing field.. I don’t think we’ll see any huge generation-uniting performers or albums anymore, but that’s not a bad thing.. there’s a lot of freedom now that if you don’t like what is playing on the Radio, to go elsewhere… I’ve discovered a lot of music I like through Grooveshark, and listening to CBC radio 3. I think a lot of smaller bands are actually able to make more of a living because they don’t necessarily require the backing of a major label.

Politicalguineapig: I think some of the drift toward self-released albums and self-run labels is due to a shift in technology.

Oh, of course! Luddite that I am, I completely forgot about this. The same is true for publishing–the way that computers made desktop publishing, layout, things like that a real possibility, so that small presses could produce books that actually looked professional is what made this shift possible in that field as well.

Andie: You’re right about the internet making a lot of bands and performers more accessible. I have a couple of downloads sitting in my inbox right now, I get alerts from bands on Facebook, which is really helpful when planning an evening out. (I have a small tech question, by the way. Is it possible to do a ‘save link as’ from hotmail?)
I use Youtube to search interesting bands, and I listen to a local radio stations’s internet archives. Said radio station is about as far from top 40 as you can get. It’s DJs are all volunteers, and all are devoted to their respective formats.
EG: Yeah, the ‘nets have really done a lot for businesses like publishing, producing music, and the arts in general. It’s even produced whole new genres, like dubstep and techno. Heck, there are some people recording themselves on their smartphones and distributing their music via the phone network.
I pretty much grew up in the internet age, so it doesn’t seem that strange to me until I stop to think about it. That said, have you ever seen the equipment in the recording studios? Looks like it was stolen from NASA.
Unfortunately, sometimes the sound quality isn’t the best on the EPs or promotional CDs. I have three that have a lot of background noise.

You guys, since we’re talking music, I watched the “loudQUIETloud” documentary on the Pixies this weekend and it was great. Kim Deal FTW.

Which kind of leads in to why I can’t stand Coldplay (seconded on temple-stabbing urges): THE PRODUCTION. It’s so sleek it lacks any character or soul. Sure you can sing along and the melodies are inoffensive, but it ain’t rock n’ roll. So, look at Tom Waits who is all discordance and unusual melodies — he’s an acquired taste partly because you have to be able to tolerate and understand the discordance to love the song-writing, which is almost always impeccable. Or on the other hand, you have someone like Bjork who is known for extremely sleek production values on all of her albums, but is equally discordant and quirky as Tom Waits. Then you’ve got an Elliott Smith who was made an indie rock god for his early folkish albums, all of which were quiet and raw, and who was roundly dismissed from indie circles for “selling out” and adding corporate production values to his albums, despite arguably being particularly amenable to these production values due to the easy comparisons to the Beach Boys and the Beatles. Production, in other words, can give added value to music, but when the main added value is inoffensiveness what’s that saying about the music itself?

But Coldplay is all production, some memorable guitar riffs, and a lot of nonsensical/cliche lyrics packaged and sold (like William said) to the too-old-to-be and too-young-to-be cool. Coldplay is the Christopher Cross of the aughts. My son’s elementary school choir bought the sheet music to “Clocks” and I’ve been forced to listen to a hundred kids earnestly singing “youuuuuuuuuu ohhhhhhhhhhh” at me every year for four years at the annual pageant.

Finally, Coldplay has only one degree of separation from GOOP, so fuck ’em all.

Also, yes, the Monkees were ever so excellent. I don’t buy into all the 60s mythologising that goes on (I actually have some pretty clear late-60s memories, so I know a lot of it was shit), but the Monkees is one 60s band that’s still worth a listen. Them and the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band.

Andie:
HCL is my favorite movie ever. I’m a little afraid to see the sequel because frankly I don’t think it needed a sequel at all. From what I’ve heard I like the way they tied it in with the original (singer obsessed with Joe Dick) but I’m not sure that’s enough to make me watch it. I kind of have a hate-on for sequels.

I’m not greatly familiar with the hardcore punk scene in CA, but I will say that Forgotten Rebels have provided a lot of fodder for campfire sing-a-longs.

I saw it at perhaps it’s only showing in NY at the Tribeca Film Center (I think…it was on Varick ST.) Bruce McDonald was there for a Q&A and I swear there were probably less than 20 people in the audience including me and 3 friends (probably closer to 10.) The thing I remember the most was while we were waiting outside in the lobby, I saw him eyeing me up and was wondering if he could have possibly took offense to my question about using a cover of ‘Sonic Reducer’ in the film, when he sidles over and asks ‘Could you possibly spare one of those Marlboros?’ (Those were the days you could still smoke in the lobby and he was apparently unhappy with his Canadian cigs.) The chat we had in the next 10 minutes was much better than the Q&A.

I tend to listen to mostly European and Asian bands, but I like some Mexican and Hispanic groups. I keep hoping that an Ecuadorean folk metal band will show up someday, because panpipes are awesome. Any kind of pipes just makes a great song better. Chinese rock is really cool, even though most of the acts sing in English. (May I plug Chthonic here? They need more respect.) I like J-rock too, though the lyrics and videos break my brain, and some of the acts are way too polished for my tastes.
In closing..

I love the Sonic Reducer cover. I was disappointed that they never used Son of a Bitch to the Core in the movie.. I kept waiting to hear it after finding it in a Headstones anthology (turns out it wasn’t on the soundtrack, just the ‘inspired by’ album). Found out later that it was one of the songs in the book though.

Crys T:
Also, yes, the Monkees were ever so excellent. I don’t buy into all the 60s mythologising that goes on (I actually have some pretty clear late-60s memories, so I know a lot of it was shit), but the Monkees is one 60s band that’s still worth a listen. Them and the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band.

The Monkees may have been wholly manufactured, but at least they had some ace songwriters at the helm. Granted, being born in t he 70s, I view the Monkees with nothing but historical distance. They were were my first concert though — their 20-year reunion (minus Mike Nesmith) with Weird Al opening.

@Kathy Yeah, the Monkees were put together as actors for a TV show, but they’re also a great punk rock story. When they were told to be good little boys & do as they were told, they stood up, said, “Screw this, we’re doing what we want,” and proceeded to compose, choose, arrange and record some really good pop tracks.

I wish some of the “real” bands around these days had anywhere near their guts. Hell, they even put out songs referencing the Viet Nam war & other political/social issues. How embarrassing is it that the fictional band from a freakin’ kids TV show from nearly 50 years ago was so much braver and more outspoken than nearly all the “legitimate,” “serious” artists around today?

Crys T: @Kathy Yeah, the Monkees were put together as actors for a TV show, but they’re also a great punk rock story. When they were told to be good little boys & do as they were told, they stood up, said, “Screw this, we’re doing what we want,” and proceeded to compose, choose, arrange and record some really good pop tracks.

I wish some of the “real” bands around these days had anywhere near their guts. Hell, they even put out songs referencing the Viet Nam war & other political/social issues. How embarrassing is it that the fictional band from a freakin’ kids TV show from nearly 50 years ago was so much braver and more outspoken than nearly all the “legitimate,” “serious” artists around today?

I’m depressed now.

First of all that’s an oversimplification. Dolenz and Jones always regarded themselves as actors. Tork and Nesmith wrote some pop songs, but you render the term’punk’ meaningless, if you use it to describe ‘really good pop tracks’. That’s like saying Garth Brooks went punk when he did that alter-ego Chris something or Beyonce was punk when she assumed the Sasha Fierce character. Nearly all manufactured pop bands decided at one point they want to write/play their own music, and occasionally make decent music but usually fail commercially, and do what the remaining 3 Monkees have been doing for 30 plus years. Playing the old hits, most of which were the ones they didn’t write or play on.

The Monkees are one of those bands that are simultaneously underrated and overrated. Their original fans didn’t appreciate that Mike Nesmith was a musical genius, while their disciples conveniently overlook that their best stuff was done with The Wrecking Crew.

Oh gee whiz, forgive me for “oversimplifying” when writing a casual, lightheared note on a less-than-serious thread. And what would a Feministe thread be like if some dude didn’t come along, completely misinterpret the reference and proceed to lecture?

Fat Steve, you are mansplaining: I know more about the Monkees than you. I know more about punk than you. So consider this your virtual Monkees moment: You are Herb Moelis. I am Mike Nesmith. You start with your “Blah, blah-blah blah-blah blah blah.” I slam my fist through the wall and scream, “THAT COULD’VE BEEN YOUR FACE, MOTHERFUCKER!!!”

I used the term “punk” not in reference to the Monkees’ musical style, but to their actions. Because, Steve my sweet, punk was not just a style of playing or even just a way of dressing: it could potentially encompass your approach to all aspects of your life.

If you had bothered to, I dunno, live in the world at some point since the late 70s, you would have seen the term “punk” applied to filmmaking, literature writing (both prose & verse), academic theory, and on and on and on. In latter years, it’s been pretty much replaced by the terms “DIY” or “DIY spirit” (which actually only capture one aspect of the punk ethos, but there we go: detail is being eroded over time), but that does not mean that punk has always and forever been restricted to only those things Fat Steve believes it should.

The Monkees are a great fucking punk rock story. Because they were set up as a fictional TV pop group and they took over and actually became, despite opposition from much more powerful foces, for all intents and purposes a real band. As Dolenz has said many, many times, it was as if Leonard Nimoy actually became a Vulcan. They–the puppets, the four dumb kids–had Don Kirshner (at that time a quite powerful name in pop) kicked off the Monkees project, they went into the studio and put together their own records their own way.

And if you don’t like that, tough titty.

(Also, hilarious that you brought up the Clash, as your model of True Punkitude , because they were a fucking manufactured band put together by Bernie Rhodes.)

Say what you will about the Monkees, but you don’t often see a song written by Harry Nilsson in a movie directed by Bob Rafelson (later to do Five Easy Pieces), written (!) by Jack Nicholson, and starring Davy Jones, a young Toni Basil, and a postscript with Frank Zappa.

Crys T: You’re welcome. Just please remember that I cannot be held responsible for any hearing damage/trauma that may occur. A few other international bands that are worth checking out: Lumsk (Norway) Eluvite (Swiss) Blind Guardian (German), Krypteria (German, with a German/Korean lead) L’ Arc N Ceil and Hyde (Japanese), and Black Guayaba (Puerto Rican.)
As for locals, some of the acts I’ve seen recently are 4onthefloor, Hastings 3000 and the Sexrays and Phantom Tails. I haven’t yet seen the Rope or Pink Mink, but not for lack of trying. The Rope is worth checking out if you like ’80s bands. They started out as a Sex Pistols cover band, but now they sound a lot like early Bowie, and play original music. Also, the Rockford Mules, which sound like Alan Jackson’s love child raised on Metallica. Oh, and Mayda. She’s really cool.

Crys T: Fat Steve, you are mansplaining: I know more about the Monkees than you. I know more about punk than you. So consider this your virtual Monkees moment: You are Herb Moelis. I am Mike Nesmith. You start with your “Blah, blah-blah blah-blah blah blah.” I slam my fist through the wall and scream, “THAT COULD’VE BEEN YOUR FACE, MOTHERFUCKER!!!”

I used the term “punk” not in reference to the Monkees’ musical style, but to their actions. Because, Steve my sweet, punk was not just a style of playing or even just a way of dressing: it could potentially encompass your approach to all aspects of your life.

If you had bothered to, I dunno, live in the world at some point since the late 70s, you would have seen the term “punk” applied to filmmaking, literature writing (both prose & verse), academic theory, and on and on and on. In latter years, it’s been pretty much replaced by the terms “DIY” or “DIY spirit” (which actually only capture one aspect of the punk ethos, but there we go: detail is being eroded over time), but that does not mean that punk has always and forever been restricted to only those things Fat Steve believes it should.

The Monkees are a great fucking punk rock story. Because they were set up as a fictional TV pop group and they took over and actually became, despite opposition from much more powerful foces, for all intents and purposes a real band. As Dolenz has said many, many times, it was as if Leonard Nimoy actually became a Vulcan. They–the puppets, the four dumb kids–had Don Kirshner (at that time a quite powerful name in pop) kicked off the Monkees project, they went into the studio and put together their own records their own way.

And if you don’t like that, tough titty.

(Also, hilarious that you brought up the Clash, as your model of True Punkitude , because they were a fucking manufactured band put together by Bernie Rhodes.)

Thought we were having a light discussion about music. My model of true punkitude is The Fugs. Then Yoko Ono. My favorite band is the Clash, because I love their music, not because of punk. I could go on and on about the missteps of the Clash, and would love to argue the Monkees thing, because i love a good music argument on a friendly level, but I guess it came of as ‘mansplaining’, so I’ll just quit now.

My model of true punkitude is The Fugs. Then Yoko Ono. My favorite band is the Clash, because I love their music, not because of punk.

sorry for the repeated line…it’s early for me…probably why my first response came across as a dickish attack on you Crys T. I never meant to imply my musical knowledge is better than yours…you clearly know your stuff…we just disagree.

Crys T: me. Just please remember that I cannot be held responsible for any hearing damage/trauma that may occur. A few other international bands that are worth checking out: Lumsk (Norway) Eluvite (Swiss) Blind Guardian (German), Krypteria (German, with a German/Korean lead) L’ Arc N Ceil and Hyde (Japanese), and Black Guayaba (Puerto Rican.)
As for locals, some of the acts I’ve seen recently are 4onthefloor, Hastings 3000 and the Sexrays and Phantom Tails. I haven’t yet seen the Rope or Pink Mink, but not for lack of trying. The Rope is worth checking out if you like ’80s bands. They started out as a Sex Pistols cover band, but now they sound a lot like early Bowie, and play original music. Also, the Rockford Mules, which sound like Alan Jackson’s love child raised on Metalli

No one should ever care this much about the Monkees. That shit ain’t healthy.

Crys T: If you had bothered to, I dunno, live in the world at some point since the late 70s, you would have seen the term “punk” applied to filmmaking, literature writing (both prose & verse), academic theory, and on and on and on. In latter years, it’s been pretty much replaced by the terms “DIY” or “DIY spirit” (which actually only capture one aspect of the punk ethos, but there we go: detail is being eroded over time), but that does not mean that punk has always and forever been restricted to only those things Fat Steve believes it should.

OK, I am going to address this bit, because we are in 100% in agreement of our definition of punk. In my opinion, DIY does not apply to a group that only got to play their own music as commercial success and were millionaire TV stars, then produced albums with a built in audience and top production quality.

I really enjoy having this kind of back and forth and would have totally appreciated your response if you just addressed the ports of my argument you thought were bullshit, rather than making all sorts of assumptions ‘Fat Steve thinks this and that…etc’. I really would love to have a good discussion with you about music BECAUSE you know your shit.

Strummer once said that as he got older he appreciated the fact that the Clash came, said their peace, then left. But it’s not quite true. First they purged Jones and then produced “Cut the Crap”, which is to the Clash what the Holmes fight was to Ali.

So Jones was Trotsky and Strummer Stalin, at least around the time he was fretting about Jones’ “cultural imperialism” (Really. He used the term). He eventually came around and embraced Jones’ cultural sampling, but naming your Album after a lefty liberators who proved to be anything but was probably a misstep too. Could’ve been worse though: Shining Path, Khmer Rouge, Naxalite…