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Re: This team needs to be blown up

Let's be honest though. Going to a Colts/NFL game is much more fun for your average person than a Pacers/NBA game. There are tens of thousands more people in a venue that is a lot bigger. Women seem to get excited about the Colts/NFL, but I don't see near as many women wearing Pacers/NBA gear.

Also, there are only 8 games and they are on Sundays when most people don't work. The Pacers OTOH have a bunch of weeknight games at 7 o'clock. If you're a casual fan who works downtown and lives in Carmel, then you're pretty much going to have to stay downtown for two hours after getting off at 5. You're certainly not going to drive all the way home because you're going to have to immediately get back into the car and head back downtown. So if you've been working all day, do you really want to hang around downtown for two hours after getting off, and then sit at a game until 9:30? By the time you get home at 10 or 10:30, you will have literally been gone for like 14 hours. That might not bother a diehard fan, but one can easily see where the 7 PM weeknight tipoff times are a turnoff for the casuals.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

It's fine to say the Pacers had a bad plan, but to act like they didn't spend? 58 million Roy Hibbert? 20 million on David West? 40 million on George Hill? The Pacers spent a lot of money and they did it on guys they thought could win, you disagree with that, but you are acting like they mislead you or something. They did no such thing.

Oh yes they did, I can bring old interviews by Bird, "we are going to wait for 2011 to have expiring contracts so we can make deals for young players and picks from teams that need expirings" nothing, "we are going to wait for the summer of 2012 so we can have cap space and with the assets we have we can bring a good player or two and we can also take players other teams don't want because we are under the cap so that help us a lot" nothing.

At the end of the day after 3,4,5,6 or 7 rebuilding years all the Pacers cap space was used for was to keep Roy, Hill and sign Ian, Green and Augustin, huge fail.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Let's be honest though. Going to a Colts/NFL game is much more fun for your average person than a Pacers/NBA game. There are tens of thousands more people in a venue that is a lot bigger. Women seem to get excited about the Colts/NFL, but I don't see near as many women wearing Pacers/NBA gear.

Also, there are only 8 games and they are on Sundays when most people don't work. The Pacers OTOH have a bunch of weeknight games at 7 o'clock. If you're a casual fan who works downtown and lives in Carmel, then you're pretty much going to have to stay downtown for two hours after getting off at 5. You're certainly not going to drive all the way home because you're going to have to immediately get back into the car and head back downtown. So if you've been working all day, do you really want to hang around downtown for two hours after getting off, and then sit at a game until 9:30? By the time you get home at 10 or 10:30, you will have literally been gone for like 14 hours. That might not bother a diehard fan, but one can easily see where the 7 PM weeknight tipoff times are a turnoff for the casuals.

I don't disagree with any of this. I am not arguing about the Pacers draw and how entertaining they are. The point I took issue with is that fans supporting a franchise somehow lends itself to mediocrity.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Oh yes they did, I can bring old interviews by Bird, "we are going to wait for 2011 to have expiring contracts so we can make deals for young players and picks from teams that need expirings" nothing, "we are going to wait for the summer of 2012 so we can have cap space and with the assets we have we can bring a good player or two and we can also take players other teams don't want because we are under the cap so that help us a lot" nothing.

At the end of the day after 3,4,5,6 or 7 rebuilding years all the Pacers cap space was used for was to keep Roy, Hill and sign Ian, Green and Augustin, huge fail.

So you think the Pacers flat out lied to you basically. Why are you even still a fan then? If I felt like the Pacers had been lying to me for the past 4 years, I wouldn't even want to talk about them.

Personally, I think the Pacers plan just didn't work out how they expected, maybe that was through poor management, but I believe they intended to do what they said they did. You think they never intended to do it, so they lied to you. So like I said, I can't understand why you even want to talk about them.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Those expectations were set up by the Pacers front office and their 3,4,5,6 maybe seven or eight years rebuilding plan, they didn't say "hey let's wait for the contracts to expire so we can sign a bunch of scrubs back", they said "we are going to do whatever is possible to build a team were we can compete for a championship" have they done that? nope.

We were all fooled to think that they were really going to do something and we bought the bs they were selling.

There it is again. Because TPTB didn't live up to your unreasonable expectations, they're wrong, and it's not you.

Pretty rich coming from the guy wanted to give Nene a 16mil per year contract, which would have resulted in even less moves.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

It's fine to say the Pacers had a bad plan, but to act like they didn't spend? 58 million Roy Hibbert? 20 million on David West? 40 million on George Hill? The Pacers spent a lot of money and they did it on guys they thought could win, you disagree with that, but you are acting like they mislead you or something. They did no such thing.

When the Pacers don't sign someone he wants, it's a sign that they're unwilling to spend and unwilling to win. When the Pacers over pay a guy, like Ian in his mind, he then uses it as a complaint that they don't spend their money wisely.

The constant in all of this is that Vnlza likes to complain, and will use any and every angle to do it, even if it means he has do a 180 on his previous positions.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

So you think the Pacers flat out lied to you basically. Why are you even still a fan then? If I felt like the Pacers had been lying to me for the past 4 years, I wouldn't even want to talk about them.

Because I had some hope? I thought they were going to do great things and they ended up not doing s***, now it looks like they are going to start with another 3 years rebuilding plan and wait for Danny's contract to expire.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Yeah, but why are you even here to wait it out? You think they falt out lied to you, that they never intended to build a true "contender", so why are you still here? Or at least why do you still call yourself a Pacer fan? If I thought they had intentionally mislead me for the past 3 years, I would be out the door before you can say phooey.

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Re: This team needs to be blown up

Um ... wow.

So, since I am a Season Ticket Holder my opinions of what is enjoyable about being a sports fan don't count? Because I'm, what, too dumb to choose to dump the team when they lose?

Gee, guess I should never have kept supporting the team from afar and traveling across country to see them during those suckage days in the 80's and those years of only making it to the first round and out in the early 90's. If I'd just become a Boston fan and a Bulls fan (couldn't be a Hawks fan for most of those years because they usually weren't any good - except the year they got beat by the Pacers in the second round - though getting beat in the second round proves they stunk then as well, so there you go, I succeeded in that) the Pacers would have had a championship by now. Instead, by supporting the team, I guaranteed they would only get to the finals once and the ECF 5 times.

Shame on me and my indiscriminate fan addiction to a team through thick and thin, when I should have been punishing Herb Simon for not letting the team get bought and move to Sacramento in 1983 when they could have.

BillS

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

Re: This team needs to be blown up

So, since I am a Season Ticket Holder my opinions of what is enjoyable about being a sports fan don't count? Because I'm, what, too dumb to choose to dump the team when they lose?

Gee, guess I should never have kept supporting the team from afar and traveling across country to see them during those suckage days in the 80's and those years of only making it to the first round and out in the early 90's. If I'd just become a Boston fan and a Bulls fan (couldn't be a Hawks fan for most of those years because they usually weren't any good - except the year they got beat by the Pacers in the second round - though getting beat in the second round proves they stunk then as well, so there you go, I succeeded in that) the Pacers would have had a championship by now. Instead, by supporting the team, I guaranteed they would only get to the finals once and the ECF 5 times.

Shame on me and my indiscriminate fan addiction to a team through thick and thin, when I should have been punishing Herb Simon for not letting the team get bought and move to Sacramento in 1983 when they could have.

Co-sign this. Obviously, I wasn't here for the 80s, but I've held tickets since the year before the brawl.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

I DO sit in the front row. One level up. Like, front row seats but turning it up a notch. So, my seats go to 11.

Quit lying, I can't remember seeing you sit down.

Side note.... Colts/Bills game is sold out and will be shown in Indy.

Last edited by RWB; 11-21-2012 at 03:13 PM.

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

Re: This team needs to be blown up

So, since I am a Season Ticket Holder my opinions of what is enjoyable about being a sports fan don't count? Because I'm, what, too dumb to choose to dump the team when they lose?

Gee, guess I should never have kept supporting the team from afar and traveling across country to see them during those suckage days in the 80's and those years of only making it to the first round and out in the early 90's. If I'd just become a Boston fan and a Bulls fan (couldn't be a Hawks fan for most of those years because they usually weren't any good - except the year they got beat by the Pacers in the second round - though getting beat in the second round proves they stunk then as well, so there you go, I succeeded in that) the Pacers would have had a championship by now. Instead, by supporting the team, I guaranteed they would only get to the finals once and the ECF 5 times.

Shame on me and my indiscriminate fan addiction to a team through thick and thin, when I should have been punishing Herb Simon for not letting the team get bought and move to Sacramento in 1983 when they could have.

That's not what I meant, sorry if it came out that way, my point is that you and Seth at least for what I can read are happy just be competitive (not that is anything wrong with that) but if you are going to judge somebody for not been happy to be mediocre I don't think you have the leverage to do that, you are pretty much telling people to be fine with the team the way it is because you are happy with the team the way it is, you want people to be as patient as you and you want people to enjoy the team the same way you do, but the fact is that not everybody is like you or Seth and not everybody is capable of been ticket holders while one of the worse coaches in history is coaching the Pacers.

In other words your level of pain is higher than a lot of those that would never be able to do what you did or do.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

A bit early for this reaction. This team is talented and just need to get it together. Once Danny is back they will be hard to beat in a series. At least this is what I'm going with this early in the season.

Now if you want to talk coaching, well I'm not against firing Frank. I think he is lacking the intangibles of being a good head coach. He honestly doesn't know the strengths and weaknesses of his own team, let alone his opponent.

.

Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

Re: This team needs to be blown up

I DO sit in the front row. One level up. Like, front row seats but turning it up a notch. So, my seats go to 11.

As a fellow Club Level front rower, I concure with this.

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

Re: This team needs to be blown up

That's not what I meant, sorry if it came out that way, my point is that you and Seth at least for what I can read are happy just be competitive (not that is anything wrong with that) but if you are going to judge somebody for not been happy to be mediocre I don't think you have the leverage to do that, you are pretty much telling people to be fine with the team the way it is because you are happy with the team the way it is, you want people to be as patient as you and you want people to enjoy the team the same way you do, but the fact is that not everybody is like you or Seth and not everybody is capable of been ticket holders while one of the worse coaches in history is coaching the Pacers.

In other words your level of pain is higher than a lot of those that would never be able to do what you did or do.

Vnzla is correct. It doesn't make you any more or less of a fan if only a championship will satisfy you. If Seth, Bills, and Peck are satisfied with a perennial playoff qualifier, with zero chance for a title, that's totally cool. Vnzla and I will not be truly happy until the Pacers get a long overdue championship. This desire doesn't make us any less of Pacer fans

If turner beats out hill and mahinmi in camp then fine, but odds of that happening are slim.

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Re: This team needs to be blown up

How does continuing to buy tickets show you are happy with being mediocre? It doesn't make any sense. That was Vnzla's original point, he said that the Pacers are comfortable with being mediocre because of people who continue to buy tickets.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

That's not what I meant, sorry if it came out that way, my point is that you and Seth at least for what I can read are happy just be competitive (not that is anything wrong with that) but if you are going to judge somebody for not been happy to be mediocre I don't think you have the leverage to do that, you are pretty much telling people to be fine with the team the way it is because you are happy with the team the way it is, you want people to be as patient as you and you want people to enjoy the team the same way you do, but the fact is that not everybody is like you or Seth and not everybody is capable of been ticket holders while one of the worse coaches in history is coaching the Pacers.

In other words your level of pain is higher than a lot of those that would never be able to do what you did or do.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

That's not what I meant, sorry if it came out that way, my point is that you and Seth at least for what I can read are happy just be competitive (not that is anything wrong with that) but if you are going to judge somebody for not been happy to be mediocre I don't think you have the leverage to do that, you are pretty much telling people to be fine with the team the way it is because you are happy with the team the way it is, you want people to be as patient as you and you want people to enjoy the team the same way you do, but the fact is that not everybody is like you or Seth and not everybody is capable of been ticket holders while one of the worse coaches in history is coaching the Pacers.

In other words your level of pain is higher than a lot of those that would never be able to do what you did or do.

Well, no, I'm pretty sure I've just said the way I feel and wondered how anyone who DOESN'T feel that way could enjoy being a sports fan, let alone a Pacer fan. There are very few teams in sports that spend most of their time as champions, and if the only thing that makes someone happy is a championship they are going to be unhappy pretty constantly unless they are a fan of one of those teams.

Remember, we're not talking about the word "satisfied", we're talking about the word "happy", as in not being happy with getting to the second round. We've already established that you and I have a completely different meaning for the word "mediocre" - I believe it means "below average", you believe it means "average" and often seem to apply it to teams that are slightly ABOVE average but not championship contenders. We will simply continue to disagree there.

BillS

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

Re: This team needs to be blown up

How does continuing to buy tickets show you are happy with being mediocre? It doesn't make any sense.

That is what I don't get I go to games and am not happy with the direction of the team. However I love the franchise and love basketball so whenever I can go to a game I will.

EDIT: Bills of course you aren't gonna win the ship every year or hell maybe ever.(with LBJ and Durant Howard and Kobe it will be tough to get 1) But I would rather have a legit shot at a championship than settle for making the playoffs and getting bounced 1st rd every year. There are only 5-6 team every year with a legit shot to win it all and this Pacers team doesn't have that ceiling to be one of those 5-6 teams IMO.

for ex: If Durant and Westbrook don't win a ship together in the next 3-6 years I wouldn't blow it up(I would maybe get rid of the supporting cast if they dont gel like they should). Because they are in that 5-6 teams that have a legit shot at a title. That is all you can ask for after that you need some luck with health and your team needs to play together as a team with the TALENT OF A ELITE TEAM.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

That's not what I meant, sorry if it came out that way, my point is that you and Seth at least for what I can read are happy just be competitive (not that is anything wrong with that) but if you are going to judge somebody for not been happy to be mediocre I don't think you have the leverage to do that, you are pretty much telling people to be fine with the team the way it is because you are happy with the team the way it is, you want people to be as patient as you and you want people to enjoy the team the same way you do, but the fact is that not everybody is like you or Seth and not everybody is capable of been ticket holders while one of the worse coaches in history is coaching the Pacers.

In other words your level of pain is higher than a lot of those that would never be able to do what you did or do.

No one is saying that, but you did say that people who buy tickets make it easier for the team to be mediocre.

You also think the team mislead you, so like I said I'm still trying to wrap my head around why you are even still a fan.