Two wrongs and a right

The John James blog has of late thrown up many hooks to hang our theories on and provided much food for thought on the Rangers issue.

His casual invective against individuals, particularly Dave King, and often members of the Bench is not particularly SFM-like in its approach, but despite the industrial nature of much of the discourse, the value of his work cannot be denied.

On the subject of revisiting LNS, I find myself in agreement with his conclusions. His argument about Celtic’s attitude to Resolution 12 is to my mind compelling insofar as it serves as a barometer for Celtic’s disposition towards rocking the SPL/SFA boat. Like him, I cannot see any real evidence, (despite the recent statement by the club) that they are disposed to move in the direction of a revisited LNS (although it should be noted that besides Celtic there are another 40 clubs who may have an opinion on this).

His conclusions though should not be confused with his opinion on the rights and wrongs of LNS. Like most of us, he appears to be of the opinion that LNS was seriously flawed on multiple counts.

I saw Bill McMurdo’s remarks too in reference to the same topic. He alleges that the whole SFA house of cards would come down if information he has at his fingertips, information that off-book payments in Scottish football was much more widespread that the RFC EBTs, was made public.

If what he says is true, and he has evidence, he should be expanding on the innuendo.

If he chooses not to, then he is as complicit as those he accuses.

In any event, to say that no action should be taken because others have done it is not the same as saying that no action WILL be taken.

If he means the former, then he is wrong. By the logic of that argument it follows that burglars for example should not be prosecuted because other people burgle houses but didn’t get caught.

I suspect he knows himself that by any objective standard, this view is in error, because when he is called out on it, he reverts to ad hominem attacks on those who called him on it. No defence, just withering, dismissive sarcasm – in the manner of former pundit Jim Traynor when he refers to those who speak of sporting integrity.

If he means the latter, then he should do what he can do prevent it and make his information public. I believe he knows that the £3 note fraternity runs through Scottish football like lettering on a stick of seaside rock, but I suspect he doesn’t actually have evidence.

If there is evidence, then McMurdo is in a unique position to get it out in the open and make life difficult for those he alleges are corrupt.

Then we should go back in time as far as possible to investigate those who participated in “black money” schemes, whether they are EBTs, other forms of tax dodge, or just money in a brown paper bag.

I do not believe that any of us participating in the Scottish Football Monitor would fear exposure of any of our clubs. I think we all know that this is far more important than club loyalties.

If McMurdo’s information is correct, then we also have the opportunity to show that the clamour for revisiting LNS is not an anti-Rangers with-hunt. Instead of reconvening LNS, let’s have Bill’s info, and constitute a wider enquiry. If the info was made public, and it will now be difficult for him to put his genie back into the bottle, could the SFA and the clubs resist the pressure for such an enquiry?

Maybe McMurdo’s intervention/revelation may yet be seen as a seminal moment in the campaign to rid ourselves of corruption and incompetence in football.

Our position has always been clear. Corruption is counter to sporting integrity. Therefore it must be rooted out.

John James and Merlin are probably correct in that the clubs will seek to thwart any move for a new enquiry; and there could easily have been a deal done with King last week.

However there was also a deal done with Charles Green about the new club being parachuted into the SPL. How did that one turn out?

Big Pink

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67.
A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

1,703 Comments

redlichtie

I’m not sure if the writer quite grasps that this is not a site set up to provide the world with the wise sayings, and at times intolerance of alternative viewpoints, of one particular person e.g. JJ.

I believe that what we provide is a broad church (can I say that?) that brings experience and knowledge to bear on whatever issues arise.

The articles are a useful starter for discussion but within a very short time are overtaken by events and related discourse. This is moderated but in my experience posters are pretty well free to express any view they wish. Unlike other sites however SFM is not a forum for personal attacks or intemperate language thus hopefully encouraging everyone to participate.

I’d also suggest that the writer in question be invited to submit his or her own article for constructive discussion. Perhaps other posters would like to see such rapid-fire articles become a feature of SFM. Let’s talk about it and see if it is feasible.

bfbpuzzled

January 25, 2016 at 12:37

if he gave up after 150 messages, how does he know how much debate dissection and analysis has been developed on the site as time goes on. The writer appears to be looking for the benefit of analysis without reading it.
He is seeking what I believe the MBA types call an executive summary updated over time. The request for that is part of the reason for many of the problems of the various folk running the game.
To monitor is not the same as to editorialise this forum certainly does the former and is less of the latter indeed the latter would be potentially problematic for the monitoring.
i found a similar tendency among students – is this gong to be in the exam and tell us what we need to know for the exam to hell with critical thought ( or grammar in the writer’s case)

Smugas

January 25, 2016 at 12:44

Agreed. With every respect to the writers and contributors of the blog articles I have only ever viewed them in the same way my wife treats navigational aids – something that is there to assist but should never be allowed the last word . Actually not just navigational aids…..

JJ is obviously the latest trendy “site of choice” and I commend him for that, particularly given his audience, his own standpoint within that and in the ‘controversial*’ content that he is putting out, but already I can see him making two major mistakes that have befallen several to try before him. Firstly that he feels the need to say something virtually every day even when there isn’t really anything needed to be said and secondly, I suspect in part due to his objective to be seen to be saying something, anything, is that factual inaccuracies and questionable forecasts start to creep in when a step back to draw breath might have served him better in the long run.

Allyjambo

Saw this on twitter and it would appear the bears are moving from a ‘buy our way to success’ model to one of ‘WATP so we will win the SPL with whatever journeymen we sign’!

“8m8 minutes ago Why are the media so desperate for Rangers to overspend. Are they worried we sign a team of English bargains and cruise the SPL next year?”

While there’s nothing wrong with (should they achieve it) not spending money they don’t have, they continue to change their tune without ever acknowledging the fact that the old (figurative) tune was a very bad one. As reality begins to be harder to hide, even from the very gullible, they seem incapable of realising that the model they will be forced to follow is the one they should have been prepared to accept from the outset.

Though, as the years go by, they may well be able to attract young, hungry players, keen to experience playing in front of large crowds with the added value of constant bumming up by a compliant media, and so be capable of winning the odd honour or two, they seem oblivious to the fact that this will take time, and any manager (Warburton?) capable of doing the building, will be off rather quickly to the EPL/Championship. They will also face the lesson from history that tells us the bears don’t hang around for long when the penalties are missed and the points stop accruing.

goosygoosy

January 25, 2016 at 13:18

John Clark 23rd January 2016 at 11:41 pm #nawlite 23rd January 2016 at 11:20 pm‘..Why doesn’t someone (anyone!) take them to task for disadvantaging EK when both they and presumably Celtic would want to play at a bigger venue. ‘_________The SFA are, of course, traditionally contemptuous of football supporters in the main, but afraid of one particular demographic;the SMSM is also afraid of that demographic ;and, in some extraordinary way, otherwise hard-headed, successful business men in charge variously of 41 football clubs seem to be cowed into silence .
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
True
BUT
There are two groups who can`t be intimidated……………. because they don`t have their names and addresses to pass to the Loonies
i.e.
The ordinary fans
of the 41 other clubs who voted with their ST feet when the corrupt governing bodies called Armageddon in 2012
And us
The Bampots
who tell the truth the media can`t or won`t tell and stand up for integrity when others mock it

Haywire

January 25, 2016 at 13:34

John Clark 24th January 2016 at 11:54 pm #And, for such amusement as it may afford on a Sunday evening, having mentioned one author of former times, I must mention a modern author -an Australian- who was speaking on the radio book programme hosted by Mariella Frostrup who has a most seductive voice …………………….
………………………………………………………………………
Hello again JC,
I listened to the same programme, but, apart from the silky tones of Ms. Frostrup, I was keen to hear about the book that Christopher Brookmyre would never lend.
I am a little surprised that you have never seen Ms. Frostrup’s bonny face. She has been around for a while and has presented a number of programmes on different TV channels. That said, many of those programmes have related to books; interviews with authors; reviews, etc. There was an article in the Independent just a week or so bemoaning the fact that there are no longer any decent book programmes on television in the UK. I used to enjoy Bookworm (I think it was called) on a Sunday afternoon, but it must have required an attention span of more than ten seconds, so has gone by the wayside.
Finally, for your delectation, here is a link to the ‘Open Book’ programme which features a photo of Mariella: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qp6p

redlichtie

January 25, 2016 at 13:36

Allyjambo 25th January 2016 at 1:07 pm #Saw this on twitter and it would appear the bears are moving from a ‘buy our way to success’ model to one of ‘WATP so we will win the SPL with whatever journeymen we sign’!
“8m8 minutes ago Why are the media so desperate for Rangers to overspend. Are they worried we sign a team of English bargains and cruise the SPL next year?”
——————————————————-
AJ,

The first question that popped into my (cynical) head was who authored this tweet? Could it be a Level 5 or similar softening up of the bears for the realisation that no-one has been or can be signed?

Unfortunately so untrusting have I become that ulterior motives are sought in almost anything Govan-related.

woodstein

TSFM is like a time machine, fist I get thrown back to 1964 when I used to deliver newspapers, then 1974 when I used to process Bonds of Caution (cayshun).

(Where a deceased had not left a will, and an insurance was required against someone applying for confirmation when they were not entitled to do so and against an executor failing to distribute the estate according to law.)

jimbo

January 25, 2016 at 13:47

One of the problems TRFC have is that everyone and their dug know who their target signings are and when it falls through they are left with egg on their faces. I don’t know how this becomes common knowledge in the first place. Is it the club itself? leaks to press?

I can’t comment on other clubs but so far as Celtic are concerned they make serious efforts to do their transfer dealing under the radar. Loads of speculation in the media of course but mostly rubbish. Of course you can’t hide when a player comes in for a trial but Celtic’s stock reply is ‘we are just having a look’. And sometimes agents will put it about that Celtic are interested to hype it up to other interested clubs.

But I couldn’t tell you the amount of times players are sprung on us and I have to immediately google him to get some info.

Seems to me that too much PR spin to appease the fans and make the club appear to be richer than they are is not a good thing.

It’s being reported today they are interested in a NI player (Evans) currently at Blackburn. Reputedly on £18k per week. Honestly you couldn’t make it up. What’s the chances of them landing a player on those wages (if true!).

yourhavingalaugh

January 25, 2016 at 13:49

Woodstein
Interesting re a will not being left,going through this with solicitors for just over a year now,one thing after another it seems,the insurance only was raised in October and has still not been agreed by the solicitor .

Allyjambo

January 25, 2016 at 14:47

redlichtie 25th January 2016 at 1:36 pm # Allyjambo 25th January 2016 at 1:07 pm #Saw this on twitter and it would appear the bears are moving from a ‘buy our way to success’ model to one of ‘WATP so we will win the SPL with whatever journeymen we sign’!“8m8 minutes ago Why are the media so desperate for Rangers to overspend. Are they worried we sign a team of English bargains and cruise the SPL next year?” ——————————————————-AJ,
The first question that popped into my (cynical) head was who authored this tweet? Could it be a Level 5 or similar softening up of the bears for the realisation that no-one has been or can be signed?
Unfortunately so untrusting have I become that ulterior motives are sought in almost anything Govan-related.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
_________________________________

It would appear that the tweeter is just an ordinary bear, RL, so I don’t think it right to post his name (it appears to be his real name). Some of his tweets today suggest the one I posted here was the peak of his enlightenment. Apparently we are all in for a rude awakening when TRFC hit the top!

I have to admit, though, that reading his tweets again (as a result of your cynicism) is making me think you could be correct with the level of your thinking, the following being typical:

“Well & truly feels like we have our club back. Positive news is becoming a daily occurrence again at Scotland’s biggest club.”

He’s not appeared on my timeline before, with Bartin Main retweeting him today, but it does look like he’s indulging a scattergun approach to catch the eye of any dithering bears The above tweet seems just a bit over happy, especially after failing to sign a player with what even Jackson couldn’t make sound like real money!

LUGOSI

January 25, 2016 at 15:01

John Clark and Haywire
More Mariella Frostrup Fun Facts.
For a while she was married to Richard Jobson, lead singer with Dunfermline band Skids.
She was born in Oslo. It is surely only a question of time before Oor Keef or Shug Keevins interviews her about her compatriot and confirm that her view is “Ronnie Oot”.
Speaking of Oor Keef am I the only one who reads his weekly Sermon From The Mealy-mouthed and hears “Ah Hah!” a la Alan Partridge?
What does Oor Keef do all week? Presumably his employers pay him to work for, say, 40 hours per week. We know what he doesn’t do but what does he actually do? Even if he watches three games a week and then pens his column(s?) there’s still about 30 hours to account for.
Or is it “the guts of” or “north of” 30 hours?
Ah-Hah!

Big Pink

January 25, 2016 at 15:05

Not been on an even keel this morning since Oscar Wilde and Keith jackson hove into view on my screen on the same line.

The acid flashback pyschedelic was further enhanced by the news that the Wilde quote had “come to [KJ’s] mind” and had not placed itself there after a random search through a dictionary of quotations 🙂

I’m not sure if that should have shown up in the accounts, maybe hidden/included within total liabilities, but even if they were, it’s not good news, if accurate, as MA can be a vengeful creditor, one suspects! Could he be about to start chasing this now his loan has been repaid?

Question for those with expertise in the area; would it be possible that this might have been kept out of the accounts as ‘disputed’, invoices lost, thought it had been settled by previous regime…?

Kilgore Trout

jimbo

January 25, 2016 at 15:55

I remember reading about the initial Strips order. Apparently Chuckes Green believed his own PR that were 500 millions fans out there and wanted to enter into a purchase order of a ludicrous amount. It was Sports Direct who convinced him to calm his jets or things could have been much worse in terms of the unsold stock costs.

Again MA was right to be wary of these prestigious outlets in Glasgow Airport, the terms of a lease there are frightening. A lot of big retailers who can afford it are happy to operate them on a breakeven basis. That may well be the case with the Celtic Shop, it wouldn’t surprise me.

I think CG was affronted that Celtic were in Glasgow Airport & in Belfast. As well as Dublin and another 7 outlets throughout Scotland. That would never do for a man who believed T’Rangers were miles ahead of every other Cub in Scotland/ Britain/ Europe, hell… THE WORLD!!!

jimbo

Jungle Jim

January 25, 2016 at 16:14

The SFA at it again.http://www.hamiltonacciesfc.co.uk/statement-east-kilbride-v-celtic/
“It has recently been reported that we will be hosting the William Hill Scottish Cup 5th round fixture between East Kilbride and Celtic on Sunday 7th February.
We have a full programme of Academy, Youth and Community events already planned for that weekend and have no intention of altering our club programme and as a result will not be in a position to make New Douglas Park available to stage the tie.”
Unbelievable incompetence.

In fact there is very little of it I could take issue with (if you leave aside the understandable knee-jerk post Celtic’s Europa League exit). Except the tone.

It is dripping with hostility and invective – the journalistic equivalent of shouting. A dog’s dinner of an article roasted in pejoratives, peppered with block capitals and garnished with bold type. Sadly, it was written not with any journalistic craft, but with a sub-editor’s bludgeon (my apologies to all the nice subs out there!)

The information in the article, and its perspective and context, all have the potential to inform, educate and enable the reader; but instead the piece becomes a desperate attempt to persuade.

Pretty much all of the output of the print media (in respect of football) is aligned in that manner. Conclusions become the only important part of the piece. So much so that you wonder why they put the information in at all.

Nowadays, everyone is an editor. Everyone has an opinion that an article’s narrative has to be in accordance with.

The piece in question has nothing to do with bias against Celtic in my view, but Michael Gannon’s polemic says a lot about what is wrong with our MSM (with the caveat that he is not making stuff up as he goes along like his award winning colleague).

Perhaps Gannon’s work was hijacked by editors or subs looking for a headline. He is certainly beter than that.

However, if you treat your readership with that kind of contempt, never giving them a minute to draw consclusions for themselves, you shouldn’t be surprised if that readership abandons you – as tens of thousands of them have.

The folk at the Daily Record and the other red-tops will tell us that social media outlets are constantly shouting at their readers also. I agree with that to an extent, but the best of social media outlets, like this one, do no such thing.

Where are the print media platforms where people are invited to draw their own conclusions.

There will be no Daily Record ten years from now, because the best of the print media no longer exists.

pau1mart1n

January 25, 2016 at 16:46

“That’s the problem jimbo. Regan won’t say anything because he won’t have to, no one will ask him about it. They will just announce a new venue and move on as if nothing has happened.”
bet he’ll say something about “learnings”

He said: “People come out and say ‘Ah, it’s not necessary for them to have those players in that division’. But it’s not just the division that matters at Rangers, it’s the fact that you have 45,000 people coming to watch something on a football pitch…they are still losing money. But when you make a decision to be involved at Rangers, there is no common sense to it. The financial bit of Rangers Football Club and common sense don’t often go ­together.”

Tom English’s comment

Why not? What makes Rangers so different that financial common sense has no place at Ibrox? Smith’s analysis was plucked from the David Murray era; freakonomics born of hubris. No common sense? He’s right, there hasn’t been. That’s not to say there shouldn’t be or that there can’t be. There must be. It’s just as well that Wallace has arrived and seems determined to cut costs. Somebody had to shake the club out of its economic time warp and bring certain people to their senses.
==============================================================

I think the above goes a long way to explaining what happened to Rangers and what could happen again. I think it may also explain why they are not paying the fees required to bring the targets in. They simply don’t have the money to.

Only this time it’s more difficult to get credit, either from a bank or from another club. “Somebody had to shake the club out of its economic time warp and bring certain people to their senses.” Or stop giving them credit they can’t afford.

RRL will declare a dividend of a total of GBP 1,610,000 prior to the Transfer. The Club will use the proceeds of its share of this dividend, inter alia, to repay sums owing to SD in respect of the cessation of onerous leases on unprofitable stores entered into by a previous Rangers management team.

The 2015 Accounts also state:

Other costs incurred
Cost of store closures paid by Rangers Football Club …………………. (620)

…….and in Note 19 to the accounts – see the attachment which shows that both the unsold stock and onerous leases were paid off in the last financial year, leaving a zero balance on the provisions as at 30 June 2015.

neepheid

January 25, 2016 at 17:11

Clearly the SFA have failed to consult Hamilton Accies before offering up THEIR ground for the EK v Celtic match. Just how bad does the shambles at the SFA have to get, before the mass clear-out begins. The clubs need to get a grip on this dysfunctional clown show urgently, and I mean like now.

paddy malarkey

Allyjambo

January 25, 2016 at 17:21

easyJambo 25th January 2016 at 4:48 pm # Attachment
Allyjambo 25th January 2016 at 3:07 pm # =========================== I was somewhat surprised to see Phil’s latest claim re unsold stock and onerous leases.
If you go back to the terms of the £5M SD loan, then it made specific provision for payment of the onerous leases.http://www.investegate.co.uk/rangers-int-f-c–plc–rfc-/rns/-10m-credit-facility—associated-26–rrl-transfer/201501270701132133D/
RRL will declare a dividend of a total of GBP 1,610,000 prior to the Transfer. The Club will use the proceeds of its share of this dividend, inter alia, to repay sums owing to SD in respect of the cessation of onerous leases on unprofitable stores entered into by a previous Rangers management team.The 2015 Accounts also state:
Other costs incurred Cost of store closures paid by Rangers Football Club …………………. (620)…….and in Note 19 to the accounts – see the attachment which shows that both the unsold stock and onerous leases were paid off in the last financial year, leaving a zero balance on the provisions as at 30 June 2015.
_____________________________

Thanks for the information, EJ.

I can only deduce that PMGB’s information must be wrong, otherwise it might mean that the club published untruths in their annual accounts, some sort of offence, I’d imagine. I genuinely can’t believe that even they would be that stupid.

The only way that both Phil’s information and the annual accounts could both be right is if the arrangement was ongoing (despite the belief that it was otherwise), or something triggered (default on loan?) it’s return.

smallchange

January 25, 2016 at 17:27

I may have missed it but, can anybody tell me if the Govan win bonuses from December have now been paid. I would like to make such information available in the MOH transfer thread on Saints site if they haven’t. (or indeed if they have)
Thanks.

scottc

January 25, 2016 at 17:54

neepheid25th January 2016 at 5:11 pm #Clearly the SFA have failed to consult Hamilton Accies before offering up THEIR ground for the EK v Celtic match. Just how bad does the shambles at the SFA have to get, before the mass clear-out begins. The clubs need to get a grip on this dysfunctional clown show urgently, and I mean like now.

The incompetence is breathtaking. I heard it on the radio on the way home this evening and just could not believe that they would do such a thing. Heads should roll …

smallchange

jimmci

January 25, 2016 at 18:30

The SFA’s incompetence is truly hard to believe.Announcing a tie to be played at a venue where the announced host seemingly had not agreed to be the host.
Well, seems that there could be a solution that will suit the SFA. Offer the tie to Rangers/Ibrox to hostEK had complained of lost revenue due to low capacity. FIXEDAdded interest for TV and Press. FIXEDGroundsharing cash for a company in dire need. FIXEDGIRUY Celtic fans. Beautifully FIXED
Problem though is that once again Rangers received a home draw so need Ibrox the previous day so pitch could be a nightmare. Hey, this could be an an even better FIXED.Have to say that five days after venue announcement it seems Hamilton Accies are taking the P**s – and as a club I’ve long admired I have to say their behaviour is more than a little disappointing.
What a mess. It’s Burns night, not April fools day but at least the media have a handy wee excuse for not chasing up the O’Halloran borefest.

Christyboy

January 25, 2016 at 18:30

They really haven’t a clue these bozos but think they are untouchable.And who can blame them.No-one has really laid a glove on them due to a compliant media. And remember, they were gonna postpone the Scottish Cup Final without giving QOTS a second thought !!!! Fine guardians right enough…….

bad capt madman

jimbo

The silence from Hampden tonight is deafening. This news broke at about 4pm. I am surprised it has taken Hamilton 5 days to make this announcement. There has to be story there.

But the organisers of this competition are the SFA. Why have they not come out with a credible explanation in 3 and a half hours? Maybe it takes longer than that to create an excuse which covers them in glory?

I have no idea why it has taken Hamilton 5 days to respond, but as clearly they hadn’t been contacted by the SFA, should they really believe what they read in the papers, see on the telly, or read on a web-site?
Peter Smith doesn’t seem to think so. …….Maybe the clarification statement issued by the SFA was made wearing their lifestyle bunnet…It’s so hard to tell nowadays.

ianagain

January 25, 2016 at 20:00

http://www.ecaeurope.com/Research/ECA%20Annual%20Report/ECA%20Annual%20Report%202015.pdf
JC
I’ve tried 3 times today to uploathis. So hope it works. The annual report of ECA.
They do produce a wee bit beyond a talking shop it seems.
A talking point is no doubt the removal of fc Ari’s p 54 for disapplication of their European licences, you do wonder why then RIFC retain theirs?
Also for fans of “working” WiFi is Celtics award on P 67.
I know you love an annual report.

Brendasback

January 25, 2016 at 21:22

Thoughts on SFA ….. Not in the least surprised by the latest fiasco ……. I think the fact that it took Hamilton 5 days to respond??? As we all know unless it’s an ‘exceptional team’ under ‘exceptional circumstances’ the SFA don’t work at the weekend!!! So Hamilton may just have been giving them (the SFA) time on the first working day back to give them their place and ask if the stadium was free? Something maybe they should have done before any decisions or announcements were made

Cosworth

January 25, 2016 at 21:28

Fit like? Long time lurker first time poster here.
Is it this week the Sevco fraud trial is coming to Aberdeen? I can’t find it on the High Court rolls but maybe not looking in the right place. Anybody heading along?

goosygoosy

January 25, 2016 at 22:40

bad capt madman 25th January 2016 at 6:33 pm #As Smallchange hints – “You will comply. Resistance is futile”apologies to non trekkies out there
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Or put in the corrupt language they use at Hampden
They tell Hamilton
“You`re just one of the 41 diddy clubs”
“Do what you`re told or we`ll award the tie to EK under the new venue refusal rule”

jimbo 25th January 2016 at 4:24 pm #Jungle Jim, great minds think alike
Well that’s put the cat amongst the budgies.
==========================
The Cat is actually amongst the Canaries down here in NR1.

upthehoops

January 25, 2016 at 23:46

I don’t think anyone will be genuinely surprised at what has happened with the latest SFA shambles. I assume they will actually confirm the next ground they select is available for the chosen date. Despite my dim view of them I did also assume they would have done just that with New Douglas Park. However let’s not lose sight of the fact it is way down the list of SFA wrongdoing, especially over these past four years.

John Clark

January 26, 2016 at 00:03

Regular posters and contributors to the SFM may remember that in October last year I wrote to Mr McRae, President of the SFA.I posted the text of my letter on 28th October (page 4 on the “Whose assets are they anyway?”, archived October 2015).
I had not received a reply or acknowledgement by 12th December, so I sent a reminder.
I received a reply to that reminder ,dated 16 December 2015, in which Mr McRae apologised for not having responded to my previous letter, and invited me to come and see him.
We arranged that I should visit him at Hampden on 19 January 2016 at 2.00 p.m.
Following the meeting, I wrote a summary of the conversation. I emailed that summary to Mr Darryl Broadfoot, Head of Communications, asking him to check whether my recollections were accurate, because I would be posting the summary on SFM.
I have not had a reply and I think I have waited a fair enough time.
So, here is the summary of an approximately 45 minute conversation.
I should first make it clear that Mr McRae said that he had no recollection of airing any of the views I had had relayed to me.
I should also say that I made it clear that while I contribute to SFM, I was not there as ‘officially representing’ SFM, although what I would say broadly reflected the view of many. ___________
“Note of informal meeting between [me] of Edinburgh, and Alan McRae, President of the SFA, with Darryl Broadfoot , Press Officer, at Hampden park, 2.00 pm Tuesday, 19th January.
Background:Mr [me] had written to Mr McRae in October 2015, to ask whether Mr McRae had really ( as had been reported to [me]) aired the following opinions: a) that Rangers FC were not Liquidatedb) that Rangers FC were put down to the third Division c)that Rangers FC were bought by Charles Green andd) that the team currently playing out of Ibrox Stadium and calling itself The Rangers Football Club Ltd is one and the same as the club known as Rangers Football Club, which is currently in Liquidation.
Mr McRae, through Mr Broadfoot, went through the points one by one.
On point one, There was no difficulty in agreeing that RFC had been Liquidated. That was accepted as a matter of fact.
On point two, Mr [me]argued that Mr Green’s new club had had to apply for league and SFA membership, and were therefore admitted as a new club to Scottish Football and allowed into SFL Third Division. They had as an emergency measure been granted conditional membership, and had had to seek the Administrators’ and Football Authorities’ agreement to the use of certain RFC(IL) players who had decided either to sign on with the new club, in order to play their first game as a new club. They were ‘put in ‘the Third Division as a new club, not as an existing club being relegated.Mr McRae , through Mr Broadfoot, argued that ‘put in’ and ‘admitted to’ are pretty much the same thing. The legal advice obtained was that Mr Green’s new club was not a new club, and the Authorities were stuck with that.Mr [me] referred to the 5-way Agreement, and made the point that two entities other than league or SFA representatives were signatories to that agreement: RFC(IL) and Mr Green’s new club. The two could not be one.Mr Broadfoot said that that was a matter of opinion. Mr [me] said that it was rather a matter of fact.Likewise, on the third point, there was disagreement. Mr Broadfoot, for Mr McRae, argued that Charles Green bought the club ( and Mr McRae personally added ‘and the “goodwill”’). Mr [me] pointed out that Mr G had NOT bought the club out of Administration, as had happened with other clubs, but merely had bought the assets of a former club that was NOT able to bought out of administration and was consequently Liquidated.
Mr Broadfoot said that Celtic and Rangers supporters might continue to disagree but that could only be expected. Mr [me] pointed out that this was not at all a Celtic-Rangers supporters’ issue, and that the Scottish Football Monitor , for instance, represented the views of supporters of many clubs.He further made the point that many sports administrative bodies had come under the spotlight in current times and people were naturally concerned that the governance of football should be above suspicion: and that substantial numbers feel that the Football Authorities have been at fault, in permitting a new club to claim to be an old club and pretend to the honours and titles etc etc.
Reference was made in the passing to some allegations that had been made that certain evidence relating to the Discounted Option Scheme had been withheld from the LNS commission, which occasioned Lord Nimmo Smith to be misled; and to the apparent negligent performance of the SFA administration under the previous President, who, both on account of his personal knowledge of the use of the DOS by Sir David Murray, and of his personal later receipt of an EBT , might reasonably have been expected to ensure a thorough and diligent examination of the information provided by clubs about payments to players. Mr Broadfoot ruled out discussion of the first of these matters because there was no evidence , and the second matter was also ruled out because, he asserted , the previous president is a man of the highest integrity. Mr [me] replied that work was in hand to provide to obtain evidence, and that the question of negligent performance of duties was not a question of ‘personal integrity’.
Mr Broadfoot opined that the future would show whether Scottish Football supporters were really concerned about the old club/ new club debate, if huge numbers turned their backs on the game.Mr [me]replied that a sport based on a false proposition, on what could be seen as a lie, no matter on what pragmatic reasons,would certainly wither if and when people thought the sport could be rigged.
Mr [me]was asked if , coming from Edinburgh, he was a Hibs or Hearts supporter., or perhaps a Celtic supporter. And whether he was going to tonight’s game. He replied that he was, as his name suggests , of Irish extraction and perhaps conclusions could be drawn. He would not be going to tonight’s game. And his interest in the present matter was rather more academic and objective than partisan.
The meeting ended cordially at about 2.45.pm “
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I think I can say that Mr Broadfoot , opening the meeting, explained that for “purposes of this meeting, he was the SFA.” Mr McRae’s personal contribution to the conversation was therefore very little more than mentioned above, Mr Broadfoot doing most of the talking.
I will say further that I spoke to BP, and consulted one or two other posters before I went to the meeting, in order to make sure that my general understanding both of the principal events of the ‘saga’ and of the thrust of most of SFM’s contributors , who are drawn from supporters of many clubs,was sufficiently sound.
I give it as my opinion that I may have been invited to a personal meeting only because it might have been thought in some quarters that I was in possession of an electronic recording of what I told Mr McRae that he was reported as having said.And, finally, I declare here that my note of the meeting was written within two hours of the meeting, and reflects the substance of the conversation. It is exactly the note I sent by email to Broadfoot, except that I corrected a typo in the spelling of Darryll (I had ‘Caryll’), and have omitted my own surname. I also’justified’ the text.

upthehoops 25th January 2016 at 11:46 pm #I don’t think anyone will be genuinely surprised at what has happened with the latest SFA shambles. I assume they will actually confirm the next ground they select is available for the chosen date. Despite my dim view of them I did also assume they would have done just that with New Douglas Park. However let’s not lose sight of the fact it is way down the list of SFA wrongdoing, especially over these past four years.
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It may be way down the list, but it is symptomatic of the ineptitude of the SFA.
It strikes me as being bizarre that there was such a long time between the original announcement and the Hamilton statement. Has anyone in the press sought to discover the reason?
The statement released by the SFA on Friday seemed unnecessarily long and detailed, given the usual silence that emanates from the bunker. If only they could issue such a lengthy and detailed statement to clarify the status of the club purporting to be Rangers that currently utilises the facilities vacated by the former club of that name.

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SFM an online community whose members are drawn from fans of all Scottish Football clubs.
Its overriding goal is to see sporting integrity restored to paramountcy in Scottish Football.
To help achieve that SFM will seek to ask the questions that the mainstream media consistently fail to ask of the authorities, who in turn consistently fail to govern the sport in accordance with their own rules.
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