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General Discussion

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Hello all, I just wanted to check in and see if we decided on when we would start. Since the first of month coming up, would it be a good idea to start on the first? I can post on the Friends of Shining World Facebook group once we decide on the date.

I just wanted to check in and see if we decided on when we would start. Since the first of month coming up, would it be a good idea to start on the first? I can post on the Friends of Shining World Facebook group once we decide on the date.

I recently looked at the Poll results and it`s 3 for the `Essence` book and 2 for Ted`s ` Self Knowledge` book. I havn`t made a choice as I didn`t want to influence the poll. so, it looks like I really should show my hand now.The thought that comes to me now though is, when we make our study group known on facebook, we should also give those prospective participants a choice of which book to study. This would entail giving a week or two`s time for the facebook people to notice us and get in touch.

I would suggest that you Albina make our study group known there..as you volunteered to, and ask for any participants to make themselves known. we might get quite a few people interested if we`re lucky. They would need to be told that they would need to sign up to the forum in order to participate. It would also be a good idea to let it be known that our teacher Arlindo, has agreed to be a participant. That`s quite a feather in our cap and should raise extra interest and enthusiasm.If you preffered myself to do this or someone else, that is not a problem if you`re too busy.

In the meantime, it would be nice if we all showed our hand as to who is participating from our side. It would be nice to know who we all are.

Albina, Mira and Eaden have made some great suggestions as regards organizing what we exactly are aiming to do to give structure and aim for the study group. Is any one person going to lead the group or are we going to put our suggestions forward and make up a definate program ? Has anybody got any further suggestions ? Who can devote a bit of time to running the study group ? I can`t always guarantee REGULAR free time to devote to the project unfortunately but i`ll do my best.

These are just my thoughts of the moment and as far as i`m concerned, nothing is set in stone at this stage. no doubt we`ll learn as we go along as to what will work best for us.So, the sooner we get organized, the sooner we can get to the `Fun Stuff` ! last minute suggestions please before we show on facebook. thanks all.

Stan wrote: we`ll learn as we go along as to what will work best for us.

Yes, I agree. Given that we have no prior experience--we should just dive in and see how it all shakes out. Stan, if you start us out---then we can all take turns leading the discussion on future chapters, as we proceed.

I'm a little concerned that if we advertise on facebook we might get too many people and that might dilute the quality of the discussion or lead to drama. But likely I am being overly sensitive. I would so like this to be a serious study group.

I agree with Mira, too many people can be stressful; especially if they are 'difficult'

I would not overly advertise it, except quoting some of the stuff on facebook once it is running.

It seems like we already have a good crowd already!? Stan, Albina, Mira and a few others is already kind of crowd for this forum, isn't it?

@Stan, maybe we can expand the "View New Posts" from ten posts to 20?

I also would suggest taking James book first as it seems to me the best option (especially since the chapters are available on the website and there are already many questions to each chapter written down and answered - see One Year Course and resources).

I think 'learning as we go' is just fine and I like the suggestion that people can take turns being the 'study co-ordinator'.

Also, I agree that a small group of like minded students is going to be the most manageable. As we learn more about this process, we may understand how to direct larger studies in the future.

Perhaps the most salient point is that participants understand that this is not a typical online discussion experience but a legitmate satsang with the supervision of a SW recognized teacher.(Thank you Arlindo!). I am of course not referring to any of the people who have expressed interest in this as I know already that they 'get it' as far as vedanta study conduct goes. I am thinking ahead to future members. We dont want the study to become diluted by people flinging around personal 'theories' and opinions.

I tend to agree with Georg and Mira, smaller group will provide a more meaningful interaction. I already like our group as it is so I personally in no need to advertise it any further.

@Stan, I do have some free time that I can dedicate regularly to the group. However, I also like Mira's idea of taking turns hosting each chapter. I think Mira had some really good questions that she offered earlier in this thread,

-Since we don't know which book we plan to take on, I thought up some generic questions:

-What was the most important teaching(s) of this chapter for you?

-How are the teachings of this chapter relevant in your life?

-How will you apply the teachings of this chapter to your life?

-Can you share your own insights about the teachings in this chapter?

-Do you have any doubts about the teachings in this chapter?

-Was any portion not entirely clear (this would only be to provide feedback to the author for future editions or future books)

If you're getting angry at difficult people I have a few suggestions I learned from Vedanta that will get to the feeling from many angles to ensure that it ceases to continue to bother you.

1) The first (if you still happen to take yourself as a Jiva stuck inside the apparent reality in conflict with other jivas who are not meeting your expectations or needs) is a process you can use called "karma yoga" . Karma yoga is an attitude toward experience that eventually cancels your sense of doership, neutralises your likes and dislikes and reminds you of the fact that you have no control over any aspect of the apparent reality except your own actions. If you rest attention in the "heart" (the desireless ever present witness) and offer your actions to Isvara as a gift to the whole and then attempt to understand that all people are getting their karma facillitated to them by Isvara and that the results of your actions are karmically what is best for the total and take your experience as prasad this will save you a lot of stress. I've heard karma yoga is called the "stress buster". It's a slow and indirect process to moksha, but it does prepare the mind for steady inquiry by neutralising certain vasanas that appear in your subtle body (experience) as your likes and dislikes. Karma yoga apparently is the natural way the mind is when Self-Knowledge is steady.

Another process you can use is in fact a process called "self-inquiry". This is also known as taking a stand AS awareness. Every time you catch yourself saying "I am angry at difficult people" ask yourself which "I" you are referring to: If pure, actionless, unconcerned, whole, complete, nondual awareness has identified with "Georg" or one of his ideas or expectations you can break the identification and rest as awareness. This is instant neutralisation of the vasanas and a more "direct" route to ending suffering.

A third method is you can use a teaching called objects and Motivations to investigate your experience. This again is very simple but also highlights the zero sum nature of involvement in Samsara and the dysfunctional tendency to try to connect sense organs with the object and facillitates the eventual assimilation of this tendency to extrovert to find security (I'm angry because I cannot find stability in the chaos), comfort (I am angry because I cannot be comfortable with discomfort)or virtue (I am angry because I am trying to be good therefore other people should also be good) in the object world. This practice is not at odds with the first two, it's just addressing the problem of identification from another angle.

Last edited by Rick on Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

I am reminded of a fourth method. This is one called "accommodation" : To cheerfully accept any person and any situation". This is a relative value that is based on nondual reality and is not to be confused with resignation. The complete assimilation of this value not only facillitaes the permanent assimilation of self knowledge but it again prepares the mind by giving it non dual vision. It is also a value that cancels out the high mindedness of the other values and acts as a neutraliser to the insistence of the opposites of your values to continue to manifest despite your wishes. It means that you see the self in everyone, even if the person is enlightened or unenlightened, it makes no difference, enlightened people know they are the self and unenlightened people don't know they are the self. There is no hierarchy and you are no better than they are despite their behaviour and despite covert aggression / reaction towards their behavior - it's all the same , it's all consciousness. However to understand that everything is consciousness you must continue to negate the object world, but a little reminder about the nondual nature of reality helps despite appearances to the contrary . Hopes this helps with the resistance

I am not going to participate in the study group, but I will be observing it to get insight and tips and direction because I am still a newbie and am attracted to drama, I am too neurotic for this one lol. You may or may not realize how helpful this will be for people genuinely interested in freeing themselves. Its hard to find good information / teaching out there in the world and to have it all condensed on here is truly a gift

I`m working on how best to make a start with our study group...trying to formulate a bit of a working structure. We`ve had some really good ideas put forward and any other suggestions at this stage would be very helpful.

The consensus seems to be that we will be studying the `Essence of Enlightenment` book to start with.If we go to chapter 10 ( The Gunas ) on the forum and click on it, there is a link there with the full chapter 10/Gunas taken directly from the book.It is taken from the 12 month course on the main shiningworld site and is complete with questions and answers relating to that chapter. The q & a`s can prompt further inquiry and questions.

I will do the same for the rest of the forum topics/chapters . In that way, we will have the full book available by clicking on the chapter/forum headings.

Regarding Mira`s ...

Yes, I agree. Given that we have no prior experience--we should just dive in and see how it all shakes out. Stan, if you start us out---then we can all take turns leading the discussion on future chapters, as we proceed.

I'm a little concerned that if we advertise on facebook we might get too many people and that might dilute the quality of the discussion or lead to drama. But likely I am being overly sensitive. I would so like this to be a serious study group.

and Georg`s ...

I agree with Mira, too many people can be stressful; especially if they are 'difficult'

I would not overly advertise it, except quoting some of the stuff on facebook once it is running.

It seems like we already have a good crowd already!? Stan, Albina, Mira and a few others is already kind of crowd for this forum, isn't it?

Ok, No big announcement on facebook. For those that don`t know, we`ve had a couple of real troublemakers on facebook ...to put it mildly, just lately.I don`t think that we`d get "too many people" coming over from facebook as those that are really serious about vedanta are in the minority. I`m sure our group isn`t ever going to get large and unwieldy. I agree totally that a small intimate and dedicated group is far better than one aimed at being all things to all people and having no real depth to it.

Having said that, I would like to occasionaly show some of our best posts on facebook.There are a few people who are genuine and serious just the same as we are. It would be a shame not to give them the opportunity to join us or at least derive some benefit.For example, when Arlindo posts, he always is very well received as he`s a really good teacher. It would be very helpful for some of those people to get the benefit of his input into our study group.Something Rick said touched me as being very true...

You may or may not realize how helpful this will be for people genuinely interested in freeing themselves. Its hard to find good information / teaching out there in the world and to have it all condensed on here is truly a gift

I also aim to be quicker off the mark in keeping people `on topic`. people who don`t adhere to the forum rules will only be warned once before they are removed. I`m not always on line so if anybody wishes to be a moderator and help out with tasks such as that, please get in touch with me. thanks.

Georg, re ....

@Stan, maybe we can expand the "View New Posts" from ten posts to 20?

I`ve spent hours trying to figure out how to do this Georg. I think it`s beyond the Administrator and moderator rights that I have.I gave up on it and emailed Dan, our web guy and asked him to do it when he`s got a free moment. I imagine it`s possible.I also asked him if he could instal a spell-check function. It would save me some time, thats for sure.

I think that`s it for the moment folks. i`ll post again tomorrow. Hopefully we`ll be up and running shortly.Best wishes to all.

Wonderful wonderful wonderful, thank you so so much.We we we we ! Come on, there's no I in team, no individuals who can speak for themselves here, I'll speak for them!Group hug anyone? It would be so wonderful if we could have a group hug.

Care to elaborate Rick ? not sure what you`re trying to point out. thanks.

I`ve just permanently banned Rick from the forum for his disruptive and negative attitude displayed here. It`s a pity but anyone who doesn`t abide by the spirit, aims and rules of the forum will be removed from participation. Thanks.

Dan McCan, our webmaster said that as soon as he gets a free moment or two, he`ll increase the number of `View New Posts` on the main page from 10 to 20 as requested.Apparently it`s a `Theme thing and not a phpBB thing, and outside my capabilities ...whatever that means. He will also see if there`s a plug-in for the spell check function.

As you may know, I had to ban Rick for his disruptive and negative attitude. It`s a pity that became necessary. I hope his study of vedanta continues.

I too would like to see Vinay join us when he can. We miss you Vinay !

I have just figured out the most logical way to structure the study group on the forum.Simply put, the Study Group topic on the main page will be a description of what the aims of the study group are. ie joint study of books, upanishads, vids etc, announcements of forthcoming study topics, requests for new topics etc.

I suggest that the studies of each chapter be placed under the relevant chapter headings in a new topic called chapter 1 study group etc. we can then work down the list of chapters. I shall put an empty `Chapter 1 study` in chapter 1 in a moment.Tomorrow i`ll put up some study ideas in it...as can anybody else, and we can make a start.

All and any suggestions are still welcome...especially as i`m kind of tired tonight and the old mind is kind of Tamasic...