I've played the challenge series (on hard mode) with every army now (2 times with GLA Stealth), and I've encountered the same problems with each army.

Against the China Nuke general:- You have access to 3 supply depots and 4 oil derricks, which provide way (waaaay) more then neccesary resources. Yet Tao doesn't really attack you. Every now and then a helix, a few MIGS, a Battlemaster, some infantry or some Nuke Cannons will show up, but they are not proving to be any resistance. You can easily outplay them with your huge economic advantages and the fortress north of your base.- In the intro movie the main Nuclear Missle won't launch/explode (whatever), which leaves you with 2 to 4 yellow couloured tanks you can control (tanks you sometimes can't even build with the army you're playing).- The first Nuclear Missle timer starts at 3:00 minutes. It will count down to 0:00 and then won't do anything. At that same moment the second Nuclear Missle timer shows up, also at 0:00. After this the other 3 Nuclear Missles show up, each after their own time, all with their counter on 0:00. They won't launch, no matter how long you wait.- The two nuke wagons, the one at the refinery and the one in the defences to the east of that, can't be targeted or captured (not even by a GLA Terrorist/Hijacker). I think it would be more fun if you were able to capture them, or at least target them to be able to play it safe.- When I played with GLA Stealth, I had the feeling Tao was sending even less troops then he already was.- If you destroy enough of Tao's nuclear reactors, he will fall in the state of ''low power''. When he does, he says something like: ''Oh general, if you sell off any more buildings I will win by default.'' This is a fairly odd bug.

Against the China Special Weapons general:- Leang won't send Burratino's or Hammer Cannons to your base. When you build/capture her Tank Factory and build some Burratino's yourself, they will stay put at the place of spawning inside the factory. They can't be moved, even if you sell off the factory.- The amount of tanks/Tiger Sharks per attack should be lowered and the amount of attacks should be higher.- After a certain point, which I'm still not sure of, Leang will eventually stop rebuilding her base (she still has a shitload of cash left though. I checked that with a LOT of saboteurs). After a long, undefined time she will begin reconstructing again.- There are 3 power plants next to the supply depot beneath her higer placed base (on her side of the bridge). One to the left and two to the right. If these are destroyed, the dozer rebuilding them will instantly spawn at the building site.

Against the China Tank general:- The amount of tanks/infantry sent to you are nicely balanced. After a short while though, Kwai stops building/sending anything. This leaves you with a blank game and every possibilty to get all the supply crates on the map.- There is a dysmal chance Kwai sends MIG's (or Helixes). I've barely encountered them. They should be sent more often.

Against the USA Super Weapon general:- There is a bridge to the main base of Alexis, but she won't send the tanks (or infantry) that are made in her base. The only attacks arriving are the Commanches and Aurora Bombers, and the two sneak attacks at the east side of the base.- If playing with GLA Stealth, Aurora Bombers won't come to your base unless there's something visible. This primarily is fair, but seems unfair in the long run. I'm not sure if this can be seen as an issue.

Against the USA Laser general:- If playing with GLA Stealth, and if your entire base is upgraded with Camo Netting (and units with GPS Scrambler), Townes will fire his Particle Uplink Cannon onto his OWN base. He won't target his own buildings or defences, but unlucky Commanches flying over are taken down. At rare occasions he might target a civilian building if your troops are garrisoned inside.

Against the USA Airforce general:- At the east of your base is the bridge off your island. On both sides there's a brown civilian hut to be found, garrisonable by 10 men. The hut at YOUR side of the island can't be shot by enemy ground forces (mainly non-artillery tanks) because the lower right tower of the bridge blocks projectiles.- Granger should gain a Tank Factory and send land waves every now and then.- If you follow pure turtle tactics, you can win this challenge by default because eventually Granger won't send anything anymore. He has cash overflowing though, I checked that with saboteurs.

Against the GLA Toxin general:- It is relatively hard to defend yourself after about 10 minutes against the masses Thrax is sending to you. I think this should become more balanced. I also think here should be a second supply depot on the main starting island because the main problem I keep encountering is a weak economy. Either a new supply depot or a higher supply count on the main depot will do.- The two oil derricks near your base are hard to defend since they will be the prime target of everything sent to you, so it adds a certain difficulty in gaining wealth.- If playing with GLA Stealth, and if your entire base is upgraded with Camo Netting (and units with GPS Scrambler), Thrax won't send anything. He builds all the men and tanks in his base, but he won't send them.This is by far the most challenging general.

Against the GLA Demolition general:- The custom rocket barrage on a standard marauder tank is too overpowered. It will pummel (groups of) infantry and your tanks won't stand a chance. Even base defences easily get destroyed by them. This can be countered by aircraft, but GLA doesn't have access to that - with Salvage in exception.- If playing with GLA Stealth, and if your entire base is upgraded with Camo Netting (and units with GPS Scrambler), Mohmar won't send anything. He builds all the men and tanks in his base, but he won't send them.- If you shoot out a driver with Jarman Kell, the frontal plain tank will prevent the following tanks from proceeding. This is logical. I tried building a SCUD Storm next to the rest of the tanks, but they wouldn't attack it because they were waypointed towards whatever they were targeting. Only the suicidal motorcycles might change their target, but not in every scenario.

In general about the challenges:- I've noticed that a lot of the abilities are disabled, bugged or lead to somewhere off the map. Kwai, Townes and Alexis for example aren't using any abilities. I've seen numerous planes on the map though, for example in the Toxin challenge. His anthrax bomb is thrown outside the map parameters beneath your Headquarters, but it kills GLA workers collecting from the supply depot. In the Demolotion challenge I've seen the demo trap plane fly in a straight line at the bottom of the map, from east to west.- In a lot of cases, close to winning a challenge, the opposing general more frequently throws harassing quotes at you. I've even encountered scenarios where there were literally two buildings left and the quotes would still prevail. This is a bit of a shame, since it doesn't make you feel like winning.- Only Thrax sends Jarman Kell and only Townes sends Colonel Burton. It would be nice if other armies did the same thing.---------------------------------------------------------------------------

About the game in general:- You've made the rockets of the Topol Missle Launchers invincible. This means China has an invincible artillery piece (Hammer Cannon), and GLA has one. I think it should be fair if you gave USA an equivalent artillery piece.- In skirmish, GLA Salvage will send sick amounts of armies to you, where every other army would become idle.- Speaking of idle, you should come up with solutions in the idling problem of the enemy (except Salvage). After a while the enemies' armies will hit a low cash reserve, after which they will completely stop attacking. 9/10 skirmishes can be won with pure turtle tactics.- In challenge and skirmish alike, the Stinger Site defence of GLA and the Gattling Cannon defence of China sometimes get a ridiculous attack radius when attacking aircraft. Even when the aircraft is moved, the Stinger Site and Gattling Cannon might keep firing outside their normal radius.- In addition to the Stinger Site and Gattling Cannon, the relay system of Patriot Missle Systems (P.M.S.) can be abused (Not by AI though). If you force one P.M.S. to attack another one, the attacked one fires off to a target (if there is a target) way outside its attack radius. I'd say the range is in between 2 and 3 times its normal radius. In the original Generals Zero Hour the same problem arose with the Laser Defences of Townes.- The Quad Cannon of Salvage fires while moving.- The Nuke Cannon of every China faction can fire while moving.- Black Lotus of every China faction can hack while moving.- The bug where USA Laser Rocket soldiers would fire their ability on buildings, outside the defence parameters, still exists.- Since GLA Rocket Buggies can now fire over every terrain, perhaps their attack range should be lowered a bit.- If the rockets of a GLA Toxin Scud Launcher are shot down by Avengers, the rockets leave a toxic stain on the ground - the same one if the rockets were to hit their target.- If you fire a Particle Uplink Cannon somewhere, and click with a high pace, the laser beam will actually go a lot faster (AI won't do this).

Of course I'm absolutely looking forward to a China infantry challenge! I love what you guys did with Juhziz.Maybe you can start a new or extended storyline with Ironside and Deathstrike?

I'm eager to hear from you guys since I put a lot of time into this. I really like the mod.

tbh, Shockwave is pretty much dead in terms of discussions on Discord & Forums. Also, you will find more than a cpl of players for ShW multiplayer only once in a blue moon. No idea when the new patch is gonna be out or rather >>if it is going to be released! Only thing which I can see coming is, the top coder for ROTR AI, Mizo >> fixing these issues in his new add on, that is, if at all he does it for the Generals Challenge.

Thank you for the effort in elaborating on these issues. At the moment I am still polishing 1.87's AI for the upcoming build (s)/ final releases, but I did make a statement that I will probably be moving onto shockwave after 1.87 is out, and fixing Skirmish, and possibly the General Challenge.

It's just not the top priority as of yet. I thought I could start with Shockwave sooner, but I am finding myself in the process of reworking ROTR's AI Attack Teams again.....

It's gonna take a while.

--------------------

Not a Rusty Spoon........The_Hunter uses a goddamn wooden spoon on his AI Scripters....

Thanks for responding guys. I'm really glad to read that development is not entirely braindead, as expected. I'm not asking you guys to fix everything by the end of next week or something. I've seen you get a lot of feedback, so that's a good thing I suppose. If I take a look at the last changelog it becomes clear a lot of time and effort are needed to accomplish such things, especially with a team this small.I've came across some new bugs already. I might post them here at a later time, if sufficient.

I've played the challenge series (on hard mode) with every army now (2 times with GLA Stealth), and I've encountered the same problems with each army.

Against the China Nuke general:- You have access to 3 supply depots and 4 oil derricks, which provide way (waaaay) more then neccesary resources. Yet Tao doesn't really attack you. Every now and then a helix, a few MIGS, a Battlemaster, some infantry or some Nuke Cannons will show up, but they are not proving to be any resistance. You can easily outplay them with your huge economic advantages and the fortress north of your base.- In the intro movie the main Nuclear Missle won't launch/explode (whatever), which leaves you with 2 to 4 yellow couloured tanks you can control (tanks you sometimes can't even build with the army you're playing).- The first Nuclear Missle timer starts at 3:00 minutes. It will count down to 0:00 and then won't do anything. At that same moment the second Nuclear Missle timer shows up, also at 0:00. After this the other 3 Nuclear Missles show up, each after their own time, all with their counter on 0:00. They won't launch, no matter how long you wait.- The two nuke wagons, the one at the refinery and the one in the defences to the east of that, can't be targeted or captured (not even by a GLA Terrorist/Hijacker). I think it would be more fun if you were able to capture them, or at least target them to be able to play it safe.- When I played with GLA Stealth, I had the feeling Tao was sending even less troops then he already was.- If you destroy enough of Tao's nuclear reactors, he will fall in the state of ''low power''. When he does, he says something like: ''Oh general, if you sell off any more buildings I will win by default.'' This is a fairly odd bug.

Against the China Special Weapons general:- Leang won't send Burratino's or Hammer Cannons to your base. When you build/capture her Tank Factory and build some Burratino's yourself, they will stay put at the place of spawning inside the factory. They can't be moved, even if you sell off the factory.- The amount of tanks/Tiger Sharks per attack should be lowered and the amount of attacks should be higher.- After a certain point, which I'm still not sure of, Leang will eventually stop rebuilding her base (she still has a shitload of cash left though. I checked that with a LOT of saboteurs). After a long, undefined time she will begin reconstructing again.- There are 3 power plants next to the supply depot beneath her higer placed base (on her side of the bridge). One to the left and two to the right. If these are destroyed, the dozer rebuilding them will instantly spawn at the building site.

Against the China Tank general:- The amount of tanks/infantry sent to you are nicely balanced. After a short while though, Kwai stops building/sending anything. This leaves you with a blank game and every possibilty to get all the supply crates on the map.- There is a dysmal chance Kwai sends MIG's (or Helixes). I've barely encountered them. They should be sent more often.

Against the USA Super Weapon general:- There is a bridge to the main base of Alexis, but she won't send the tanks (or infantry) that are made in her base. The only attacks arriving are the Commanches and Aurora Bombers, and the two sneak attacks at the east side of the base.- If playing with GLA Stealth, Aurora Bombers won't come to your base unless there's something visible. This primarily is fair, but seems unfair in the long run. I'm not sure if this can be seen as an issue.

Against the USA Laser general:- If playing with GLA Stealth, and if your entire base is upgraded with Camo Netting (and units with GPS Scrambler), Townes will fire his Particle Uplink Cannon onto his OWN base. He won't target his own buildings or defences, but unlucky Commanches flying over are taken down. At rare occasions he might target a civilian building if your troops are garrisoned inside.

Against the USA Airforce general:- At the east of your base is the bridge off your island. On both sides there's a brown civilian hut to be found, garrisonable by 10 men. The hut at YOUR side of the island can't be shot by enemy ground forces (mainly non-artillery tanks) because the lower right tower of the bridge blocks projectiles.- Granger should gain a Tank Factory and send land waves every now and then.- If you follow pure turtle tactics, you can win this challenge by default because eventually Granger won't send anything anymore. He has cash overflowing though, I checked that with saboteurs.

Against the GLA Toxin general:- It is relatively hard to defend yourself after about 10 minutes against the masses Thrax is sending to you. I think this should become more balanced. I also think here should be a second supply depot on the main starting island because the main problem I keep encountering is a weak economy. Either a new supply depot or a higher supply count on the main depot will do.- The two oil derricks near your base are hard to defend since they will be the prime target of everything sent to you, so it adds a certain difficulty in gaining wealth.- If playing with GLA Stealth, and if your entire base is upgraded with Camo Netting (and units with GPS Scrambler), Thrax won't send anything. He builds all the men and tanks in his base, but he won't send them.This is by far the most challenging general.

Against the GLA Demolition general:- The custom rocket barrage on a standard marauder tank is too overpowered. It will pummel (groups of) infantry and your tanks won't stand a chance. Even base defences easily get destroyed by them. This can be countered by aircraft, but GLA doesn't have access to that - with Salvage in exception.- If playing with GLA Stealth, and if your entire base is upgraded with Camo Netting (and units with GPS Scrambler), Mohmar won't send anything. He builds all the men and tanks in his base, but he won't send them.- If you shoot out a driver with Jarman Kell, the frontal plain tank will prevent the following tanks from proceeding. This is logical. I tried building a SCUD Storm next to the rest of the tanks, but they wouldn't attack it because they were waypointed towards whatever they were targeting. Only the suicidal motorcycles might change their target, but not in every scenario.

In general about the challenges:- I've noticed that a lot of the abilities are disabled, bugged or lead to somewhere off the map. Kwai, Townes and Alexis for example aren't using any abilities. I've seen numerous planes on the map though, for example in the Toxin challenge. His anthrax bomb is thrown outside the map parameters beneath your Headquarters, but it kills GLA workers collecting from the supply depot. In the Demolotion challenge I've seen the demo trap plane fly in a straight line at the bottom of the map, from east to west.- In a lot of cases, close to winning a challenge, the opposing general more frequently throws harassing quotes at you. I've even encountered scenarios where there were literally two buildings left and the quotes would still prevail. This is a bit of a shame, since it doesn't make you feel like winning.- Only Thrax sends Jarman Kell and only Townes sends Colonel Burton. It would be nice if other armies did the same thing.---------------------------------------------------------------------------

About the game in general:- You've made the rockets of the Topol Missle Launchers invincible. This means China has an invincible artillery piece (Hammer Cannon), and GLA has one. I think it should be fair if you gave USA an equivalent artillery piece.- In skirmish, GLA Salvage will send sick amounts of armies to you, where every other army would become idle.- Speaking of idle, you should come up with solutions in the idling problem of the enemy (except Salvage). After a while the enemies' armies will hit a low cash reserve, after which they will completely stop attacking. 9/10 skirmishes can be won with pure turtle tactics.- In challenge and skirmish alike, the Stinger Site defence of GLA and the Gattling Cannon defence of China sometimes get a ridiculous attack radius when attacking aircraft. Even when the aircraft is moved, the Stinger Site and Gattling Cannon might keep firing outside their normal radius.- In addition to the Stinger Site and Gattling Cannon, the relay system of Patriot Missle Systems (P.M.S.) can be abused (Not by AI though). If you force one P.M.S. to attack another one, the attacked one fires off to a target (if there is a target) way outside its attack radius. I'd say the range is in between 2 and 3 times its normal radius. In the original Generals Zero Hour the same problem arose with the Laser Defences of Townes.- The Quad Cannon of Salvage fires while moving.- The Nuke Cannon of every China faction can fire while moving.- Black Lotus of every China faction can hack while moving.- The bug where USA Laser Rocket soldiers would fire their ability on buildings, outside the defence parameters, still exists.- Since GLA Rocket Buggies can now fire over every terrain, perhaps their attack range should be lowered a bit.- If the rockets of a GLA Toxin Scud Launcher are shot down by Avengers, the rockets leave a toxic stain on the ground - the same one if the rockets were to hit their target.- If you fire a Particle Uplink Cannon somewhere, and click with a high pace, the laser beam will actually go a lot faster (AI won't do this).

Of course I'm absolutely looking forward to a China infantry challenge! I love what you guys did with Juhziz.Maybe you can start a new or extended storyline with Ironside and Deathstrike?

I'm eager to hear from you guys since I put a lot of time into this. I really like the mod.

Greetz,

Alex

EDIT:

Against the China Special Weapons general:- If you're dumb enough (like me) to get yourself shot by Leang's Gaia Temple, the area around your Command Center becomes highly bugged after all the shockwaves. Red squares the size of a stinger site appear all around the Command Center for quite a while, making it impossible to rebuild or relocate units. These squares seem to appear at the places of killed buildings and units.- In addition to her super weapon, if the bastard is fired basicly your entire base is useless unregarded which army you play. She brought in a Tigershark attack about 5 seconds after my entire base was 'out of power'. Unless you have a shit ton of aircraft - which you can't even have with GLA - you'll directly lose the game. This means you'll automaticly lose if you can't counter her super weapon. I think there should be some sort of attack withholding timer along with her super weapon so you can actually rebuild your base.

General bugs:- If Jarman Kell Promotes to grade 1, 2 or 3 his Vehicle Snipe timer will reset- If Jarman Kell is upgraded with AP Bullets his Vehicle Snipe timer will reset- If Jarman Kell is upgraded with the KVSK Sniper his Vehicle Snipe timer will reset

Against the China Special Weapons general:- If you're dumb enough (like me) to get yourself shot by Leang's Gaia Temple, the area around your Command Center becomes highly bugged after all the shockwaves. Red squares the size of a stinger site appear all around the Command Center for quite a while, making it impossible to rebuild or relocate units. These squares seem to appear at the places of killed buildings and units.- In addition to her super weapon, if the bastard is fired basicly your entire base is useless unregarded which army you play. She brought in a Tigershark attack about 5 seconds after my entire base was 'out of power'. Unless you have a shit ton of aircraft - which you can't even have with GLA - you'll directly lose the game. This means you'll automaticly lose if you can't counter her super weapon. I think there should be some sort of attack withholding timer along with her super weapon so you can actually rebuild your base.

General bugs:- If Jarman Kell Promotes to grade 1, 2 or 3 his Vehicle Snipe timer will reset- If Jarman Kell is upgraded with AP Bullets his Vehicle Snipe timer will reset- If Jarman Kell is upgraded with the KVSK Sniper his Vehicle Snipe timer will reset

EDIT 2:- If a GLA Stealth Supply Stash is hit with GPS Scrambler, it still toggles to visible when moving.

First, let me tell you that you are awesome looking for all that stuff. Really patient and sharp-eyed man

QUOTE (Alexandrius @ 17 Feb 2017, 16:51)

General bugs:- If Jarman Kell Promotes to grade 1, 2 or 3 his Vehicle Snipe timer will reset- If Jarman Kell is upgraded with AP Bullets his Vehicle Snipe timer will reset- If Jarman Kell is upgraded with the KVSK Sniper his Vehicle Snipe timer will reset

- If a GLA Stealth Supply Stash is hit with GPS Scrambler, it still toggles to visible when moving.

I am not entirely sure, but I think nothing can be done for those.One unit can have maximum one stealth behaviour, so if the stash is by default unstealthed while moving, it will stay as is, no matter what.And timer resets after upgrade/promotion is a general thing, not only JarmenDon't quote me on this, I heard bits of technical stuff here and there, but I am not a coder (well actually I am, but not the same kind of coding ).

As for Leang, or any other challenge, we may have a look at it in the future, but for now, the team is 100% focused on Rise of the Reds.

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Dave already fixed most of the challenge issues, but his work isnt done.Hopefully I can see to it that his work is given to more active mapmakersLooking at you skitt or Mizo,however the bugs that Mael just quoted are mostly unfixable, the whole reseting thing is by all means good thou, because each level has LESS COOLDOWNS.You can actually time it right and get the most out of the upgrades by letting it reset a second after you used the ability.

- The Usa Armor general builds his defensive slabs with attachment already built on them, giving him an unfair advantage to the building speed of his defences.- On some maps, official as well as unofficial, units tend to group up againts mountains/cliffs causing the entire game to lagg hard as hell. Can their be some sort of autokill for these units? The problem seems to be that an unit gets a waypoint, can't get there and instantly recieves a new one, creating a circle of death.- Lan stability is questionable, although I'm pretty sure you guys can't fix that.- The agressive stance on Special Weapons, Armor and Salvage outplays the rest of the armies. Named three armies will keep building until they are at least depleted of money. Sometimes I've a feeling they're building even more that they can legitimately afford. If you'd put any of these three armies against a not named one, they will most likely win 49/50 times.- Some armies, like China Nuke, will not fire their superweapons in skirmish at all. When this occurs in most cases general powers aren't used either.- Some armies will not construct new power plants IF out of power because of the newly built superweapon(s), causing an all-round and endlessly powerless base.- On some maps armies rolling towards your base will act as if your defensive line doesn't exist. It seems like they are permanently waypointed towards your HQ or a tech-building.- It might be I already named this one, but the missle defender bug isn't fully solved. The special ability button is sometimes (even if less than before) still used on (defensive) buildings out of your range/parameter. If you're busy or not paying 100% attention, 1 missle defender can easily take out an entire line of defences, including artillery pieces. Previously this only occured at missle defenders from Laser. Now all missle defenders have a, what seems to be a equal chance of showing this bug.

- On some maps, official as well as unofficial, units tend to group up againts mountains/cliffs causing the entire game to lagg hard as hell. Can their be some sort of autokill for these units? The problem seems to be that an unit gets a waypoint, can't get there and instantly recieves a new one, creating a circle of death.- The agressive stance on Special Weapons, Armor and Salvage outplays the rest of the armies. Named three armies will keep building until they are at least depleted of money. Sometimes I've a feeling they're building even more that they can legitimately afford. If you'd put any of these three armies against a not named one, they will most likely win 49/50 times.- Some armies, like China Nuke, will not fire their superweapons in skirmish at all. When this occurs in most cases general powers aren't used either.- Some armies will not construct new power plants IF out of power because of the newly built superweapon(s), causing an all-round and endlessly powerless base.- On some maps armies rolling towards your base will act as if your defensive line doesn't exist. It seems like they are permanently waypointed towards your HQ or a tech-building.

yeah number 1 is the engine + the map waypoints2. is the Ai gets cheat money to cover it being stupid3 and 4 seems to be the triggers/conditions arnt fireing5 is the priority sets look to be iffy

but yeah the AI in shw needs fixing/reworked both in skirmish and in the challenge

His superweapon is bugged. When I played on Medium against him he kept on firing his scud storm on his command center.

Juhziz also doesn't build much anti-air tanks or any at all in medium and hard settings. He only builds them on easy. This makes easy much harder than medium and hard. I am not sure if this was fixed but I saw it happen again when I played Medium.

Topol missiles can be deflected or destroyed. They are not invincible.