Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:26 pm

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 amPosts: 2831Location: USA

frenchie wrote:

And to end my participation to this thread, I'll half quote Spiderman : Freedom "comes with great responsibilities". (explanation : freedom does NOT mean you do/say what you want)

Freedom of the press and speech does infact mean you can say what you want, with the exception of libel, slander, and things liking yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre (which can cause physical harm to others). What is obvious in this thread is that some have made absolutely false accusations about Fox News, have failed to produce any evidence when challenged, so what you say about their free and reckless speech?

Personally, I don't watch Fox News, but I read the link posted by Neil, and all they quotes they posted by members of the Fox News staff said they thought Obama was born in the USA. Just becasue Fox News interviewed Donald Trump (who may think differently) does not mean that Fox News or the Fox News interviewers agree with Trump.

Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:42 pm

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 amPosts: 2831Location: USA

aristide1 wrote:

You ever wonder what happened to the decendents of the original witch burners? They're still around.

So what are you proposing, that we round them up and put them in jail because of the actions of their ancestors. BTW, I saw a really interesting show on PBS where someone did a lot of research and determined that those women (the accused witches) really were crazy, the result of rye poisoning that affected the crop one year.http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/previou ... clues.htmlToo bad you cannot beat that dead horse any more.

aristide1 wrote:

Hey wait a minute, all the godless liberals are sex maniacs, and porn exists through the 1st Amendment, so what you're saying doesn't seem fair and balanced.

I don't think there is any evidence to claim that liberals are any more sex maniacs than conservatives. And Clarence Thomas seems to like porn, and he is probably the most conservative justice on the Supreme Court.

The old narrow-minded stereotypes of the left are no longer valid. It is conservatives who more often than not more likely to preserve free speech. Meanwhile, the great progressive hope has turned out to be a war mongerer, and caving into the conservatives, just like the others.

There was a period before the last election when "hope and change" slowly but surely crossed over into a quiet form of hysteria. Much like certain stock market periods. He lived up to my worst expectations when he said he liked the Chase CEO. It paralleled the day W made Christie Whitman the head of the EPA. In both cases it's like using Akansas as the model of literacy for the US.

Not my worst nightmare, not at all. But I sometimes wish Judgement Day would show up tomorrow, then at least I can stop worrying about my 401K.

_________________People who put money and political ideology ahead of truth and ethics are neither﻿ patriots nor human beings.

President Obama has shown his birth certificate. Why is anybody still asking for it? Why do polls show that 47% of Republicans believe that the president was not born in the USA? What about John McCain -- could he be president, because he was born in Panama?

Fox is just about causing distractions from the real issues. You can't go an evening on Fox without them brining up religion or religion-proxy issues. CNN never talks about important issues, it is all about horse-race in an effort to look fair.

It saddens me that so many people are distracted by all the talk about the family lives and the backgrounds of politicians. The talk about politicians growing up in [city, state], their wives & kids, and their dogs is just a distraction!

Politics is all about tax money and making it disappear into their friends hands.

1. Military and security contracting2. Privatization of government functions (like Social Security)3. Corporate hand-outs (subsidies, incentives, bailouts, and tax breaks) 4. Construction projects (like stadiums) that NEVER pay off they way they are sold to the public.

Back to FOX:

They want to tell that NPR & PBS is expensive, but it cost $1.35 per person per year. Bush's "Bailout" of the credit industry that abuses our population cost us each $2,255.30 (so that was 1,670 years of NPR & PBS funding).

If we had 25 more media outlets like NPR, meaning ones that are not sucking at the credit card companies advertising tit. I have no doubt that we would have avoided electing people who "Bailout" their ultra-rich banking buddies.

Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:50 am

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 amPosts: 2831Location: USA

NeilBlanchard wrote:

President Obama has shown his birth certificate. Why is anybody still asking for it? Why do polls show that 47% of Republicans believe that the president was not born in the USA? What about John McCain -- could he be president, because he was born in Panama?

All the employees of Fox News that I have seen quoted believe that Obama was born in Hawaii. However, he has NOT shown his birth certificate, only a recently computer printed Certificate of Live Birth issued by a Hawaii government. However, enough people have seen his birth certificate (mainly state officials such as former governors, etc) to confirm that it does exist. No one is quite sure why Obama has not released his original birth certificate (or copy thereof), when he has released his Certificate of Live Birth (there is a lot of speculation about that, such as when his parents actually got married).

John McCain was born in a US territory by American parents while his father was stationed at a US military facility in Panama. Under such circumstances, no one doubts that he is a natural born US citizen under the law (except you?).

As to why 47% of Republicans believe that the president was not born in the USA (or not sure if born in USA), maybe because they don't like him, or maybe they are skeptical until they proof with their own eyes. Not sure why it makes a difference, since these people wouldn't ever vote for him even if they were sure he was born in the US. Not sure why liberals are so obsessed with this subject.

BTW, some seem to be making a big stink about how Fox News allowed Donald Trump on the air to voice his doubts about Obama's birth place, but yesterday Trump appeared on CNN Anderson Cooper 360 show to voice the same doubts. How come no one is complaining about CNN or Anderson Cooper?

Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:10 am

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 amPosts: 2831Location: USA

Dr. Jim Pomatter wrote:

Back to FOX:

They want to tell that NPR & PBS is expensive, but it cost $1.35 per person per year. Bush's "Bailout" of the credit industry that abuses our population cost us each $2,255.30 (so that was 1,670 years of NPR & PBS funding).

If we had 25 more media outlets like NPR, meaning ones that are not sucking at the credit card companies advertising tit. I have no doubt that we would have avoided electing people who "Bailout" their ultra-rich banking buddies.

I don't think the issue of the per capita expense for NPR is the issue. The issue is government funding of news media. Somehow, I don't think you would be so charitable about NPR if they were more like Fox or even CNN.

Regarding the cost of the TARP funding for banks, etc, are you sure about those figures? I believe that almost all the money has been paid back. Also, how much would it have cost the US government if they had to take over a bunch of failed banks if TARP funding was not made available to keep them afloat?

You call it "Bush's" bailout, but you neglect to mention that loose credit terms for home mortgages are mostly a Democratic Party invention to allow poor people to purchase homes, and that Clinton deregulated the credit default swaps at the insistence of Robert Rubin, his Secretary of Treasury. Coincidentally (or maybe not), Rubin was at Citibank when it accepted TARP funding (He was acting Chairman of the Board for part of that time). The WSJ noted that Citigroup shareholders suffered losses of more than 70 percent since Rubin joined the firm in 2009, and that he encouraged changes that led the firm to the brink of collapse during the financial crisis of late 2008.

Upon Rubin's retirement in 2009, Clinton called him the "greatest secretary of the Treasury since Alexander Hamilton." On April 18, 2010, in an interview on ABC’s “This Week” program, Clinton said Rubin was wrong in the advice he gave him not to regulate derivatives.

Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:26 am

Friend of SPCR

Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:39 amPosts: 455Location: England

This amused me...But that's probably because I'm not a Liberal.

Definition of a liberal

1. You have to be against capital punishment, but support abortion on demand.2. You have to believe that businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity.3. You have to believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens are more of a threat than U.S. nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese and North Korean communists.4. You have to believe that there was no art before federal funding.5. You have to believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical changes in the earth's climate and more affected by soccer moms driving SUVs.6. You have to believe that gender roles are artificial, but being homosexual is natural.7. You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding.8. You have to believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th-graders how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex.9. You have to believe that hunters don't care about nature, but PETA activists do.10. You have to believe that self-esteem is more important than actually doing something to earn it.11. You have to believe that Mel Gibson spent $25 million of his own money to make "The Passion of the Christ" for financial gain only.12. You have to believe the NRA is bad because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the ACLU is good because it supports certain parts of the Constitution.13. You have to believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high.14. You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, Gen. Robert E. Lee, and Thomas Edison.15. You have to believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides are not.16. You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.17. You have to believe that this message is a part of a vast, right-wing conspiracy.

1. You have to be against capital punishment, but support abortion on demand.2. You have to believe that businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity.3. You have to believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens are more of a threat than U.S. nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese and North Korean communists.4. You have to believe that there was no art before federal funding.5. You have to believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical changes in the earth's climate and more affected by soccer moms driving SUVs.6. You have to believe that gender roles are artificial, but being homosexual is natural.7. You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding.8. You have to believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th-graders how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex.9. You have to believe that hunters don't care about nature, but PETA activists do.10. You have to believe that self-esteem is more important than actually doing something to earn it.11. You have to believe that Mel Gibson spent $25 million of his own money to make "The Passion of the Christ" for financial gain only.12. You have to believe the NRA is bad because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the ACLU is good because it supports certain parts of the Constitution.13. You have to believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high.14. You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, Gen. Robert E. Lee, and Thomas Edison.15. You have to believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides are not.16. You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.17. You have to believe that this message is a part of a vast, right-wing conspiracy.

1. I understand how these two are related, but I don't think they are equivalent. And turning it around, many "conservatives" believe that all abortions are murder, but then they support capital punishment and war; which would seem to be inconsistent with loving all life.

2. This is not an either/or choice -- do conservatives support child labor, and/or public education?

3. What about fraudulent gun sales, or stolen guns, or accidental deaths, or crimes of passion? Where are the state militias? What do nuclear weapons have to do with the 2nd Amendment?

4. Huh?

5. Science doesn't change relative to one's political beliefs.

6. You are conflating things that are not equivalent. Gender roles are largely determined by culture and religion. Homosexuality is not a choice, and it has existed in all cultures and religions. If you believe that homosexuality is a choice -- when did you choose to be straight?

7. Huh? Are you saying that the market or something else other than the government, will try to solve the AIDS crisis?

8. Huh? Are you saying all teachers are failures, and why bother trying to educate our children?

9. Can hunters care about animal cruelty? Is all hunting cruelty?

10. How is this a liberal trait?

11. See 10.

12. I think the ACLU supports all of the Constitution. The NRA's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is hardly universal -- again, where are these State Militias?

13. See 10.

14. Taxes are the obligation for the privilege of living in an organized society. If you want to live without paying any taxes, then please find your own "country" to live in. By staying put and getting the benefits of an organized society, then you either have to take part and try to change the parts of it that you don't like, or don't complain.

15. All tests are biased to a certain extent; and quotas are an imperfect correction for long term racism.

16. Are you conflating socialism and communism?

17. This list is based on your personal opinions.

Questions about conservatives:

1. Do all conservatives believe in environmental conservation?

2. Do all conservatives love all weapons, no matter how lethal?

3. Are all conservatives libertarian; or are they all anarchists?

4. Do conservatives think all taxes are bad, and that all businesses are good?

5. Do all conservatives think that to any issue, there are only either/or, black/white, right/left, right/wrong, us/them answers?

Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:05 am

Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 11:26 amPosts: 174Location: Sunny Swansea

Re: Liberal/Conservative bickering. I think Chris Rock said it best, "I've got some shit I'm conservative about, I've got some shit I'm liberal about. Anyone who makes up their mind before they hear the issue is a fucking fool". Indeed.

judge56988, I realise your post was meant to be a joke that you have copied and pasted from some hilarious website/email, but parroting it just makes you come across as a prejudiced ill-informed twat. Sorry.

Re: Obama birthers. Does the recent release of Obama's birth certificate vindicate him in your eyes? or is it just an elaborate forgery conspiracy? or is it a case of "good on Trump for fighting for truth and justice and the American way and forcing that evil man to release a piece of paper that has absolutely no real consequence or effect on the world"?

Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:30 am

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pmPosts: 3395Location: US

judge56988 wrote:

17. You have to believe that this message is a part of a vast, right-wing conspiracy.

I believe that message is part of a self referential pattern of sophomoric thinking. It is someone's attempt to set up a straw man that doesn't exist in real life, then easily knocking him down with a slight push.

It is so easy to do. Real men don't need to do that.

Also they don't take pride in being an echo chamber for the demagoguery of others.

Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:37 am

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 amPosts: 2831Location: USA

Big Pimp Daddy wrote:

Re: Obama birthers. Does the recent release of Obama's birth certificate vindicate him in your eyes? or is it just an elaborate forgery conspiracy? or is it a case of "good on Trump for fighting for truth and justice and the American way and forcing that evil man to release a piece of paper that has absolutely no real consequence or effect on the world"?

I agree that most of this is of no consequence, but why didn't Obama just release the BC along time ago when the Certificate of Live Birth was released. Some are saying that Obama had (or has) no obligation to release the BC, which may be true, but one wonders why then he felt obligated to release the Certificate of Live Birth in 2008 during the campaign.

Now the worst possible thing has happened. Donald Trump has an ego even bigger than before (if that is possible).

I agree that most of this is of no consequence, but why didn't Obama just release the BC along time ago when the Certificate of Live Birth was released.

For the exact reason you had to re-state the question. It was answered and it made no difference. The fact that you fail to accept what I have stated is proof. Please continue your silliness ad infinitum.

_________________People who put money and political ideology ahead of truth and ethics are neither﻿ patriots nor human beings.

Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:27 pm

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 amPosts: 2831Location: USA

aristide1 wrote:

For the exact reason you had to re-state the question. It was answered and it made no difference. The fact that you fail to accept what I have stated is proof. Please continue your silliness ad infinitum.

Your explanation as to why he didn't release it previously, is in direct contradiction to the fact that he released it today. If you think that is siliness that he released it today, then maybe you should blame Obama for that.

Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:35 pm

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 amPosts: 2831Location: USA

ces wrote:

How exactly does one engage in an intellectually honest dialog with a [snip]?

And why bother?

I demand an apology for calling me a [snip].

I will let the comment about birther slide, even though I have repeatedly said I believed Obama was born in Hawaii. I did question (like many others) why he didn't release the full birth cirtificate earlier to put an end to this nonsense, and apparently Obama finally agreed with me on this issue and released it today. If you have a problem with Obama on this issue, please take that up with him.

Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:39 pm

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 amPosts: 2831Location: USA

aristide1 wrote:

I never saw anyone on Faux who could admit they were wrong either.

Somebody close this thread. Lots of other futile stuff already exists in the world.

According to link provided by Neil above, all the Fox News employees said they believed Obama was born in Hawaii, so what is there to apologize for?

This latest flap was really about Donald Trump, who is exploring a run for President and appeared on Fox News, but who also appeared on CNN Anderson Cooper 360 with his same rants about the birth certificate. For some reason, Fox News gets blamed for doing exactly what CNN did (interview Donald Trump).

Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:43 pm

Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:05 pmPosts: 759Location: Colorado, USA

Questions about conservatives:

1. Do all conservatives believe in environmental conservation?

2. Do all conservatives love all weapons, no matter how lethal?

3. Are all conservatives libertarian; or are they all anarchists?

4. Do conservatives think all taxes are bad, and that all businesses are good?

5. Do all conservatives think that to any issue, there are only either/or, black/white, right/left, right/wrong, us/them answers?

1) Yes, but not at great expense of commerce2) No, weapons are good, but there are and should be limits, mainly weapons over .50 cal; and destructive devices3) No, can't support legalizing all drugs and prostitution; don't believe in anti-interventionalism // No, conservatives believe in supporting and upholding our laws.4) No, certain amount of taxes are needed, tax system is complicated and unfair // businesses are mostly good, but gov't oversight is needed5) I believe in right and wrong, black and white. I think that most issues have right/wrong answers. I do believe in some grey areas.

Not sure if 3b was serious or not. Not sure if my answers are helpful, or if you even wanted them. I typed out more detailed responses but my firewall ate it.

4. Do conservatives think all taxes are bad, and that all businesses are good?

5. Do all conservatives think that to any issue, there are only either/or, black/white, right/left, right/wrong, us/them answers?

1) Yes, but not at great expense of commerce2) No, weapons are good, but there are and should be limits, mainly weapons over .50 cal; and destructive devices3) No, can't support legalizing all drugs and prostitution; don't believe in anti-interventionalism // No, conservatives believe in supporting and upholding our laws.4) No, certain amount of taxes are needed, tax system is complicated and unfair // businesses are mostly good, but gov't oversight is needed5) I believe in right and wrong, black and white. I think that most issues have right/wrong answers. I do believe in some grey areas.

Not sure if 3b was serious or not. Not sure if my answers are helpful, or if you even wanted them.

I appreciate your response; thanks for taking the time to (re)type them.

1. How do we go about valuing the environment? How much "expense" is it worth leaving a sustainable earth for our descendents and the rest of creation? Who gets to decide what is a "great expense"?

2. I'm glad you feel that there are reasonable limits on the ownership of guns. Because, like most things in law, there are balances thaat must be struck. Who gets to decide what that balance is?

3. Libertarianism is hard to understand how it could work, and it seems to assume that people will limit themselves so as not to affect others. We all benefit from the rest of our society a lot more than people acknowledge. And yes, my question about anarchy was serious. To hear some people talk, it would seem they want either an all-volunteer government, or none at all; seeing how unwilling they are to pay for the government they asked for.

4. I agree pretty much completely with you on this. The two things that need to change, in my opinion, are to overturn the idea that money is free speech -- it is an action. Rich people can't have more speech than others -- it is *free* speech, after all.

The second thing that we need to do is lower the costs of running for public office -- we, the people "own" the airwaves, and so broadcasting political messages should be *free* to official candidates. And, political contributions should be limited to actual people, and to a reasonable amount, like $250. We need to also severely limit paid lobbyists, and they cannot give government officials anything but their speech.

5. Well, sure facts are right, and lies are wrong. But, many things debated in politics are far from absolute.

Post subject: Re: I have just discovered how horrible Fox News really is

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:12 pm

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pmPosts: 3395Location: US

m0002a wrote:

ces wrote:

How exactly does one engage in an intellectually honest dialog with a [snip]? And why bother?

I demand an apology for calling me a [snip].

What I wrote was intentionally in the nature of a list of belief systems.

I left it for people to form their own opinions about what talking points might cause an observer to form an opinion that anyone might knowingly or unknowingly ascribe to any of them.

All of those belief systems are ones that I disagree with, but there are many people who self identify with one or more of them and stand up for them.

For me to apologize I would have to assert that you ascribe to at least one them. I decline to do that. I in fact don't know what your personal belief systems are other than what you have posted under m0002a, and I don't know how serious you are about even that... or whether you are posting contrary opinions under other logins.

Your m0002a postings have consistently maintained a disbelief in the birther belief system. What about the others? Do you accept any of the other belief systems that I listed as your own? Do you reject them all? It isn't for me to say. You tell us.

I don't believe the list that Judge posted, but I do believe in equal time to state opposing opinion. I don't buy either list. Are you finding these as funny as the other list?

So then by standards already stated here this is the definition of a US conservative.

1. You have to be against abortion but pro-war (I've seen real life examples).2. You have to believe that governments create oppression as their primary mission and all corporations have ethics. All those chemicals in your drinking water were placed there by the serpent hiding in Eden 4000 years ago. 3. You have to believe that guns in the hands of all citizens are not a threat and there no limit to the money to be spent on U.S. weapons technology to deter the Chinese and North Korean communists, but all other US spending is 100% inept and unimportant. See also #13. 4. You have to believe that there was no successful corn industry before federal funding. Or oil industry. or milk industry, or all the others that get annual corporate welfare. 5. You have to believe that earth's climate is totally unaffected by man and won't believe otherwise even if the planet becomes totally uninhabitable. To suggest otherwise means you give up personal safety and I get to kill you with full justification. I'm never wrong, I'm a conservative. That proves I'm right. Really, really, right. 6. You have to believe that but being homosexual requires stoning, like it says in the Bible, except for certain conservatives who mistakenly opted to be this way. They didn't know any better, and we're performing brainwashing techniques to correct their defects. We also neutered them when they weren't looking, we're justified in doing that, it's our right, really really right. 7. You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spread because God decided to punish the US for its gay rights. 9-11 was also punishment, but the US didn't take the hint, it needs to be repeated. 8. You have to believe that the same teacher who can't control her students because their whacko parents defend them regardless of what they do or who they shoot is somehow actually going to get through to these kids about anything. You also believe that if kids have no sex education from school they obviously won't be having any sex at all. It's not like hormones all of a sudden flood the body. Abstinence has worked well for Palin and her family, right? Really really right. 9. You have to believe that hunters care about nature, based on all the lead they leave everywhere and won't ever change to other materials, while you single PETA activists as the norm for the other party. 10. You have to believe that self-esteem through screwing another is more important than actually doing work. That is the current US definition of opportunity. Work is for fools, easy opportunity is for smart people like the CEO's of Goldman Sacs, Chase, BoA, and BP. 11. You have to believe that Mel Gibson spent $25 million of his own money to make "The Passion of the Christ" to have a leg to stand on during his drunken anti-Semitic remarks. As a conservative one extreme always justifies the other. 12. You have to believe the NRA is good because it railroads its stance and winning is all that counts, while the ACLU is bad because while it supports certain parts of the Constitution, they are the ones conservatives don't care about, which means they don't count for all citizens. 13. You have to believe that taxes are too high and only anarchy rules, but ATM fees are not too high, because we endorse reverse Robin Hood-ism, based on irrational paranoia of socialism, whose definition conservatives can't get right far too often, but blame the education system for that particular ignorance. See item #8. 14. You have to believe that the CEOs of Chase and Goldman Sacs are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, Gen. Robert E. Lee, and Thomas Edison. Ken Lay and the CEO of Tyco were simply misunderstood. Greed is good, everything else is socialism. We believe in Jesus too, just not his work. We're too righteous to be questioned, it automatically makes you unpatriotic. 15. You have to believe that calling Obama a monkey is not racist, and corporate racial and sexual discrimination don't exist in this country even after proven in a court of law. 16. You have to believe that the only reason capitalism has failed elsewhere is because they don't have the degree of nepotism we have.17. You have to believe that this message is a part of a vast, left-wing conspiracy.

_________________People who put money and political ideology ahead of truth and ethics are neither﻿ patriots nor human beings.

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