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Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

Let me get this straight, we're demoting CJ Watson to 3rd string so we can bring in Michael Beasley, who couldn't even get minutes with Spoelstra and the Heat last year, and Jordan Crawford, who has shot a lovely 32% from 3 point land the last two seasons (and that's rounding up)?

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

That's why I suggested trading Scola to clear a spot and salary space. Crawford and Beasley would be good additions. Pure scorers, something we lack right now. I think if we go "Skittles" this season (players of assorted flavors and varieties).. we might have a shot at 8th seed. But it's gonna require scorers to go along with defense.

Oh, you want to fill the roster with Players with the Vet minimum....which the Pacers can do without using the Disabled Player Exception.

I get what you want do to improve the roster, basically improve the scoring of the Team by throwing Scorers to the roster that literally does nothing but score. But I don't agree with your approach to filling the roster with adding flashy athletic Free Agents that are some combination of being Streaky scorers and/or Low Basketball IQ Players ( on or off the court ).

But that's fine...keep on Grimpin', that's what you're best at doing .

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

Let me get this straight, we're demoting CJ Watson to 3rd string so we can bring in Michael Beasley, who couldn't even get minutes with Spoelstra and the Heat last year, and Jordan Crawford, who has shot a lovely 32% from 3 point land the last two seasons (and that's rounding up)?

In this point in time, we're desperate. The low hanging fruit is all that's left. I really blame Lebron for most of this. If he had made his decision earlier, perhaps a BETTER replacement for Lance is found than Stuckey. Perhaps PG doesn't get hurt. Perhaps a lot of things are different. But in our situation now, yeah I'd take Crawford and Beasley. Would I have taken Crawford and Beasley 7 weeks ago? HELL NO. Again, we're coming into a season where our best player is injured, and our 2nd best player was signed away.

We're gonna be playing Skittles ball this season. It's pretty much gonna be taste the rainbow of assorted players and varieties. So we're gonna have to stitch together a team based on "collection". Not perfectly slotted pieces. And again, I don't see a problem with it if they're all on 1 year deals.

When things get back to normal next Summer, and we're aiming to build a serious contender again, Beasley and Crawford will be off the books.

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

In this point in time, we're desperate. The low hanging fruit is all that's left. I really blame Lebron for most of this. If he had made his decision earlier, perhaps a BETTER replacement for Lance is found than Stuckey. Perhaps PG doesn't get hurt. Perhaps a lot of things are different. But in our situation now, yeah I'd take Crawford and Beasley. Would I have taken Crawford and Beasley 7 weeks ago? HELL NO. Again, we're coming into a season where our best player is injured, and our 2nd best player was signed away.

We're gonna be playing Skittles ball this season. It's pretty much gonna be taste the rainbow of assorted players and varieties. So we're gonna have to stitch together a team based on "collection". Not perfectly slotted pieces. And again, I don't see a problem with it if they're all on 1 year deals.

When things get back to normal next Summer, and we're aiming to build a serious contender again, Beasley and Crawford will be off the books.

Valid points, I too have suggested that "desperate times call for desperate measures" when it comes to dumping Scola to make a bigger contract offer and more guaranteed Playing time to Marion.

But given that Marion ( the best available FA has now decided to take the easy route and backup LeBron ) is no longer an option.....I'd prefer to go with doing nothing ( via Free Agency ) and simply giving Solo and Rudez more minutes. Heck, I'd even advocate giving Copeland more minutes at the SF spot if it meant surrounding GH/CJ/Stuckey with more shooters.

I agree that the scoring on this Team has to improve with the loss of both PG13 and Lance in the offseason.....but I think that there's a difference between filling the roster with low basketball streaky scorers that are inherently inefficient scorers and using Players that are capable of spacing the floor while running a more disciplined and more efficient scoring lineup. This may mean going back to a more "inside out" offense while increasing the usage of Players like Hibbert, West and Scola....it may mean having Stuckey and GH trying to attack the paint more while kicking it out to 3pt shooters or it simply may mean promoting ball movement among the Players to look for scoring opportunities.

My whole point is that I'd rather run a more efficient scoring offense with high-basketball IQ efficient shooters that can properly implement and execute an offense than simply throw as many scorers on the floor and asking them to put up points.

Of course, this brings up one of your favorite topics....can Vogel actually create and implement an offense that takes advantage of the strengths of his Players while not going back to an ineffective offensive "outside in" scheme that doesn't fit the current make up of Players that we have?

Even if I do acknowledge that I have no idea if Vogel can properly adapt the offense to surround primary scoring options like GH/Stuckey/West/Hibbert.......that does not change my opinion that I DO NOT want streaky and/or low basketball IQ Players on the Team.

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

Valid points, I too have suggested that "desperate times call for desperate measures" when it comes to dumping Scola to make a bigger contract offer and more guaranteed Playing time to Marion.

But given that Marion ( the best available FA has now decided to take the easy route and backup LeBron ) is no longer an option.....I'd prefer to go with doing nothing ( via Free Agency ) and simply giving Solo and Rudez more minutes. Heck, I'd even advocate giving Copeland more minutes at the SF spot if it meant surrounding GH/CJ/Stuckey with more shooters.

I agree that the scoring on this Team has to improve with the loss of both PG13 and Lance in the offseason.....but I think that there's a difference between filling the roster with low basketball streaky scorers that are inherently inefficient scorers and using Players that are capable of spacing the floor while running a more disciplined and more efficient scoring lineup. This may mean going back to a more "inside out" offense while increasing the usage of Players like Hibbert, West and Scola....it may mean having Stuckey and GH trying to attack the paint more while kicking it out to 3pt shooters or it simply may mean promoting ball movement among the Players to look for scoring opportunities.

My whole point is that I'd rather run a more efficient scoring offense with high-basketball IQ efficient shooters that can properly implement and execute an offense than simply throw as many scorers on the floor and asking them to put up points.

Of course, this brings up one of your favorite topics....can Vogel actually create and implement an offense that takes advantage of the strengths of his Players while not going back to an ineffective offensive "outside in" scheme that doesn't fit the current make up of Players that we have?

Even if I do acknowledge that I have no idea if Vogel can properly adapt the offense to surround primary scoring options like GH/Stuckey/West/Hibbert.......that does not change my opinion that I DO NOT want streaky and/or low basketball IQ Players on the Team.

I can see passing on Beasley but I think Crawford is a good fit at this point. He has no off the court issues, he just has become a journeyman. I still hope there's a trade though, and if this little snag about Evan Turner not having actually SIGNED a contract on paper with the Celtics is true? Then perhaps there is something brewing.

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

When things get back to normal next Summer, and we're aiming to build a serious contender again, Beasley and Crawford will be off the books.

I guess I'd rather use this season to develop and see what we have with some of the players we plan to use when PG comes back as opposed to picking up a couple 1 year rentals and giving them minutes. Unfortunately we're not championship material this year no matter what we do with PG out for the season. What he brings from a defensive standpoint is just irreplaceable. We no longer have the option of throwing PG on a guy like Bradley Beal or Jeff Teague to slow another team down, and I don't even know how you go about trying to defend LeBron without PG in this lineup. It's more important for us to assess what guys like Solomon Hill and Rudez can offer for 2015 and beyond over giving some one year rentals minutes.

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

I really blame Lebron for most of this. If he had made his decision earlier, perhaps a BETTER replacement for Lance is found than Stuckey. Perhaps PG doesn't get hurt. Perhaps a lot of things are different.

So if Lebron would have made his decision earlier, the fast break where PG got hurt wouldn't have happened?

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

I can see passing on Beasley but I think Crawford is a good fit at this point. He has no off the court issues, he just has become a journeyman. I still hope there's a trade though, and if this little snag about Evan Turner not having actually SIGNED a contract on paper with the Celtics is true? Then perhaps there is something brewing.

Yeah, we all know that you're always hoping for a trade.

We already have 9 Players ( not including Rudez ) that will get minutes:

GH/Stuckey/Miles/West/Hibbert/Watson/Solo/Scola/Mahinmi with Players like Copeland and Rudez waiting in line for minutes.

I'd have no problem bumping Solo down the food chain if it meant adding a fairly solid FA like Marion that could definitely impact the Team/Roster. But Jordan Crawford is a streaky low basketball IQ poor shot selection scorer that I have ZERO interest in bringing in. I guess he can help.....but I'd rather do nothing, save the $$$, keep the Disabled Player Exception in the Pacers/Bird's back pocket ( for any possible future trade opportunities ) and give whatever scoring opportunities and development minutes to Players that already are on the roster ( Solo, Rudez and Copeland ).

At this point, there is no Free Agent that is worth going after.

I think that whatever Solo, Copeland and Rudez ( all Players that would likely be affected by the addition of a Free Agent Guard/Forward ) would likely contribute would be comparable ( if not more ) to whatever contributions that Jordan Crawford ( or any remaining FA on the Market ) can give to the Team.

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

So if Lebron would have made his decision earlier, the fast break where PG got hurt wouldn't have happened?

In the big scheme of things timing is everything in the universe. One domino falls earlier than expected many things can change. Maybe if the Bulls had gotten an extra off day in between the Denver and Portland games last season, Rose might not have gotten hurt again. That small alteration of the universe could've made all the difference.

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

We already have 9 Players ( not including Rudez ) that will get minutes:

GH/Stuckey/Miles/West/Hibbert/Watson/Solo/Scola/Mahinmi with Players like Copeland and Rudez waiting in line for minutes.

I'd have no problem bumping Solo down the food chain if it meant adding a fairly solid FA like Marion that could definitely impact the Team/Roster. But Jordan Crawford is a streaky low basketball IQ poor shot selection scorer that I have ZERO interest in bringing in. I guess he can help.....but I'd rather do nothing, save the $$$, keep the Disabled Player Exception in the Pacers/Bird's back pocket ( for any possible future trade opportunities ) and give whatever scoring opportunities and development minutes to Players that already are on the roster ( Solo, Rudez and Copeland ).

At this point, there is no Free Agent that is worth going after.

I think that whatever Solo, Copeland and Rudez ( all Players that would likely be affected by the addition of a Free Agent Guard/Forward ) would likely contribute would be comparable ( if not more ) to whatever contributions that Jordan Crawford ( or any remaining FA on the Market ) can give to the Team.

Not exactly. If a team has weaknesses, then yeah you wanna remove them. Point guard is our biggest flaw. It didn't show as much when Hill first got here. But at this point, it's like a giant zit on the future Prom Queen's face. I think Roy can be glossed over for now, and West's age in a PG-less season can too be glossed over. But with a team as depleted as ours? We need a point guard to get the ball to guys now more than ever. Hill ain't that guy. He might be a decent person, but from a B-ball standpoint. He ain't our guy. Especially for the future.

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

Not exactly. If a team has weaknesses, then yeah you wanna remove them. Point guard is our biggest flaw. It didn't show as much when Hill first got here. But at this point, it's like a giant zit on the future Prom Queen's face. I think Roy can be glossed over for now, and West's age in a PG-less season can too be glossed over. But with a team as depleted as ours? We need a point guard to get the ball to guys now more than ever. Hill ain't that guy. He might be a decent person, but from a B-ball standpoint. He ain't our guy. Especially for the future.

And how does GH not being the type of PG that you want on the Team tie in with whatever we are discussing now ( Jordan Crawford, much less any FA guard....can do on this Team )?

If you are talking about trading to get the PG that you want is a different story ( and forum ). But what PG are we going to get via Free Agency that will replace GH in the lineup at the point?

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

To someone like Grimp that simply looks at streaky Players that put up good #s every now and then.....there's no difference. Fringe Player "X" that put up numbers on Team "A" automatically translates into Player "X" putting up the same #s on Team "B", right? We need to score more points with the loss of PG13 and Lance.....so more SCORERS on the Team automatically translates into more wins and less ongoing frustration with this Team's offense.

The problem is that there is a difference between getting "SHOOTERS" and "SCORERS" IMHO. We've seen this with the likes of Players like Green and DJ.....not all Players that do good on some Team immediately translates into that Player performing the same on the Pacers. For all I know, a Player like Stuckey ( just like ET ) may look like garbage on the Pacers under Vogel's unimaginative offense .

BTW....we did get a shooter in the offseason via FA....Rudez. The guy is a very capable shooter that can consistently hit the 3pt shot. The problem is that he has no NBA experience, has ZERO athleticism, appears to be a huge defensive liability, he's not flashy and he will likely be stuck behind Players like Solo, Stuckey and Miles in the rotation.

But if we simply look at him for what he is and used as a pure 3pt shooting Role Player.....yeah....he will likely fill the purpose that he was brought into fulfill.

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

I like the Bird's back pocket thing, CableKC. I'm coming around to the "play with what you have" idea. If Vogel can re-introduce his inside/outside preferred system, we can use the big's we still have from last year and bring the new players around to the way we want to play. If Roy, West, Scola and the new guys can hold the fort while we build some team chemistry, we could become competitive by the playoffs. If not, we will probably start looking for trades around the trade deadline. I agree that there are not any FA left that I would break the bank to bring in. GIGO, folks, bad players no one else wants does not make our team stronger.

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

I like the Bird's back pocket thing, CableKC. I'm coming around to the "play with what you have" idea. If Vogel can re-introduce his inside/outside preferred system, we can use the big's we still have from last year and bring the new players around to the way we want to play. If Roy, West, Scola and the new guys can hold the fort while we build some team chemistry, we could become competitive by the playoffs. If not, we will probably start looking for trades around the trade deadline. I agree that there are not any FA left that I would break the bank to bring in. GIGO, folks, bad players no one else wants does not make our team stronger.

You make good points, but acquiring a star point guard would at least get fans excited for the 2015-2016 season. Would show that the team has a plan with PG returns. If you're a Pacers fan, and this years team stinks....... you're thinking well... PG/Bledsoe PG/Rondo PG/Dragic PG/Jackson will be key pieces for the 2015-2016 run. No one is excited about the future of our PG position right now.

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

I like the Bird's back pocket thing, CableKC. I'm coming around to the "play with what you have" idea. If Vogel can re-introduce his inside/outside preferred system, we can use the big's we still have from last year and bring the new players around to the way we want to play.

The reality is that there is no Player that can be signed via Free Agency that will provide us anything more than what Solo, Rudez and/or Copeland can provide in the rotation.

At this point where there are no quality FAs left..... using it makes little sense.....so we have little choice when choosing not to use it and keeping it in Bird's back pocket in the hope that it could be used as a trading chip later.

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

The reality is that there is no Player that can be signed via Free Agency that will provide us anything more than what Solo, Rudez and/or Copeland can provide in the rotation.

At this point where there are no quality FAs left..... using it makes little sense.....so we have little choice when choosing not to use it and keeping it in Bird's back pocket in the hope that it could be used as a trading chip later.

Another good point, but my suggestions are based on one thing: How UGLY do you want this season to be?

A). We get creamed night in and night out?
B). We lose a lot but still manage to get the 8th seed
C). We have a valiant season and lose in rd2 or 3 of playoffs, and people are wowed at what we were able to accomplish without PG and after losing Lance.

Whatever signings or trades we make before the season begins, will ultimately decide which type of season we have.

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

Another good point, but my suggestions are based on one thing: How UGLY do you want this season to be?

A). We get creamed night in and night out?
B). We lose a lot but still manage to get the 8th seed
C). We have a valiant season and lose in rd2 or 3 of playoffs, and people are wowed at what we were able to accomplish without PG and after losing Lance.

Whatever signings or trades we make before the season begins, will ultimately decide which type of season we have.

You should separate FA signings with trades. One can be done with minimal impact to the Team's limited assets ( signing a FA ). When it comes to a trade, I ( and suspect that Bird ) has some minimal asking price for GH, West and Hibbert and won't make a trade just to make a trade.

We all know what you want to do when it comes to what you want in a trade. What FA Signing do you think will yield us better results than simply playing Solo, Rudez and/or Copeland in the rotation?

Given that I don't think that there are any FA worth signing for and that we have no idea about what the trading value of GH, West or Hibbert will have on the Trading Block; I will settle for Choice B.

IMHO....even if we stand pat......I already expect that we will be a Playoff Bubble Team that is competitive enough to make a run at the 8th spot in the Playoffs. If a trade of GH, West or Hibbert happens, great.....I think that Bird won't make one that will hurt the Team's chances to make a solid run at a Playoff spot. I don't think that we are so bad that we will be "losing night in and night out". Given all the crap we have been through this offseason....the 1st round of the Playoffs is what I am aiming for.....even if it means losing against Elite Level Teams.

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

You should separate FA signings with trades. One can be done with minimal impact to the Team's limited assets ( signing a FA ). When it comes to a trade, I ( and suspect that Bird ) has some minimal asking price for GH, West and Hibbert and won't make a trade just to make a trade.

We all know what you want to do when it comes to what you want in a trade. What FA Signing do you think will yield us better results than simply playing Solo, Rudez and/or Copeland in the rotation?

Given that I don't think that there are any FA worth signing for and that we have no idea about what the trading value of GH, West or Hibbert will have on the Trading Block; I will settle for Choice B.

IMHO....even if we stand pat......I already expect that we will be a Playoff Bubble Team that is competitive enough to make a run at the 8th spot in the Playoffs. If a trade of GH, West or Hibbert happens, great.....I think that Bird won't make one that will hurt the Team's chances to make a solid run at a Playoff spot. I don't think that we are so bad that we will be "losing night in and night out". Given all the crap we have been through this offseason....the 1st round of the Playoffs is what I am aiming for.....even if it means losing against Elite Level Teams.

I don't even know about Copeland anymore. I really wish we knew what we had with him. But considering he got the "rookie" treatment last season by Vogel? I am not sure where he even fits this season. I'd love to know if he still has his stroke he had with the NYK. Or if he's lost it? But we didn't see enough of him last season to know. Anything really.

Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

I don't even know about Copeland anymore. I really wish we knew what we had with him. But considering he got the "rookie" treatment last season by Vogel? I am not sure where he even fits this season. I'd love to know if he still has his stroke he had with the NYK. Or if he's lost it? But we didn't see enough of him last season to know. Anything really.

He did only shoot .418 from three last year which was .003 worse than the year before, so he probably should be cut so we can make room for a scorer.

"Danny Granger is one of the top players in the league. To move Danny, you better get a lot back." - Larry Bird