LAHORE: Justice Khawaja Muhammad Sharif of the Lahore High Court on Tuesday sent a same sex couple to separate jails and ruled that their marriage was an “unnatural act” not allowed by Islam or Pakistani law.

The judge sent Shumail Raj, 31, the ‘husband’, who had a sex change operation 16 years ago, to Central Jail Kot Lakhpat in Lahore, while Shahzina Tariq, 26, the ‘wife’, was sent to the female ward of Faisalabad district jail. The two are from Faisalabad.

“A marriage of same sex is not allowed in our country,” Justice Sharif observed.

The judge, who is hearing Pakistan’s first ever case pertaining to the marriage of two people of the same gender, issued two show cause notices to the couple: one asking why a case under Section 377 of the Pakistan Penal Code (PPC) should not be registered against them for committing the unnatural act of marrying a person of the same gender; and the other asking why they should not be charged under Section 193 of the Criminal Procedure Code (CrPC) for submitting a false affidavit to the court claiming that Raj was a man.

Section 377 of the PPC carries a punishment of between two years to life imprisonment, while Section 193 of the CrPC carries a jail sentence of up to seven years.

The judge also issued a show cause notice to Dr Abdul Hafeez of Kardar Specialist Hospital, who had performed Raj’s sex change operation, asking what law authorised him to do such an operation. Justice Sharif directed the police to produce Dr Kardar at the next hearing and directed the court office to prepare a separate file on this case.

Raj first brought the case to the LHC appealing for protection from harassment by their relatives, who want the couple to divorce. The couple says Tariq’s family planned to sell her into marriage to pay off her uncle’s gambling debts.

On Tuesday, the judge asked Raj, wearing black jeans and a white half-sleeve shirt, whether she was a man or a woman. Raj admitted that she was a woman and had lied about this at a previous hearing. Shahzina also admitted that she knew that her spouse was a woman.

The court admonished the couple’s lawyer Rana Sajjad Hussain when he sought two weeks to reply to the show cause notices. Justice Sharif told him to file his reply by May 25.

LAHORE: Shumail Raj and Shahzina Tariq, who got arrested for taking part in a same-sex marriage, said on Tuesday that President Pervez Musharraf should help them, as he believed in liberalising society. The couple was arrested on Sunday because they were women who married each other, which was against Islam. They called the arrest unjust and said that they would also seek help from the international community, who would support their decision and let them live their lives in peace. The couple told reporters outside the LHC that physical boundaries were not strong enough to break the emotional bond they shared and they would love one another come what may. online

They are not sent to jail for marrying but for lieing before court in an earlier case, where they filed a false affidavit before High Court.

There is no proof of having sex and they have denied it as well, it dont make any offense, except lieing in their marriage certificate and before court, for which they can be punished.

But it is some thing new in Pakistan, let us see how the case turns.

QUOTE(Pakistan First @ May 23 2007, 05:14 PM)

Same-sex couple sent to separate jails

Staff ReportLAHORE: Justice Khawaja Muhammad Sharif of the Lahore High Court on Tuesday sent a same sex couple to separate jails and ruled that their marriage was an “unnatural act” not allowed by Islam or Pakistani law.

The judge sent Shumail Raj, 31, the ‘husband’, who had a sex change operation 16 years ago, to Central Jail Kot Lakhpat in Lahore, while Shahzina Tariq, 26, the ‘wife’, was sent to the female ward of Faisalabad district jail. The two are from Faisalabad.

“A marriage of same sex is not allowed in our country,” Justice Sharif observed.

The judge, who is hearing Pakistan’s first ever case pertaining to the marriage of two people of the same gender, issued two show cause notices to the couple: one asking why a case under Section 377 of the Pakistan Penal Code (PPC) should not be registered against them for committing the unnatural act of marrying a person of the same gender; and the other asking why they should not be charged under Section 193 of the Criminal Procedure Code (CrPC) for submitting a false affidavit to the court claiming that Raj was a man.

Section 377 of the PPC carries a punishment of between two years to life imprisonment, while Section 193 of the CrPC carries a jail sentence of up to seven years.

The judge also issued a show cause notice to Dr Abdul Hafeez of Kardar Specialist Hospital, who had performed Raj’s sex change operation, asking what law authorised him to do such an operation. Justice Sharif directed the police to produce Dr Kardar at the next hearing and directed the court office to prepare a separate file on this case.

Raj first brought the case to the LHC appealing for protection from harassment by their relatives, who want the couple to divorce. The couple says Tariq’s family planned to sell her into marriage to pay off her uncle’s gambling debts.

On Tuesday, the judge asked Raj, wearing black jeans and a white half-sleeve shirt, whether she was a man or a woman. Raj admitted that she was a woman and had lied about this at a previous hearing. Shahzina also admitted that she knew that her spouse was a woman.

The court admonished the couple’s lawyer Rana Sajjad Hussain when he sought two weeks to reply to the show cause notices. Justice Sharif told him to file his reply by May 25.

The Section 377 needs proof of "Unnatural Sex" and medical evidence that sex have been committed, evidence of eye wittnesses who have seen the actual sex being committed and soon.....................

That all is missing in this case and no one can prove it in court.

There is no specific law in Pakistan which disallow the marriage of same sex, 377 do not cover the marriage it just deals with sexual acts between same sex people which needs solid proof of sexual acts being committed .

Let us wait and watch how this issue unfolds, as this is first case of sort in our society and culture.

A moment of justice delivered is far valued than sixty nights of worship"

Would the marriage be valid if the sex change operation had been successfull ? After all, it is a man and a woman now.P.S. Molvees. I am only asking. Please dont label me as promoting it or issue a fatwa against me.

yes, sure, If the doctors certify that the person claiming to be a husband is capible of fullfiling the sexual demands of a female the marriage would considered to be legel even if its a result of sex change or operation.

There are several examples in Pakistan where the girls [genetic problem] were identified as males by doctors and went in the sex change surgery, after that they became "FULL MALES", and were allowed by law to change their sexual oriantation.

There are few reported cases, but if I refer here you wont be able to find out unless you have law liberary of Pakistani judgments.

Sex change is not offensive in Islam or in Pakistan laws as its a medical problem and is allowed, but condition is that it must be able to determine one's sexuality as a male or female.

Here in this case the tow girls are involved and medically they are girls as yet, there is no law to stop it as yet, this is the first case of same sex marriage we can not predict the outcome.

The Judge handeling is a liberal person and a former President of LHBA, lets see how things turn, but to me as yet there is nothing which can be against law except these girls filed a fake affidavit in high Court, that carries punishment for lieing before court.

A moment of justice delivered is far valued than sixty nights of worship"

For everyone arguing with Mir, let me tell you one thing, if he's not typing sense, that means he's mocking you or having fun in the thread on your expense, seriously. I have spoken to him on a personal level, and believe me, he's one of the most intelligent persons I've spoken to, and a great friend. If any of his postings are not mature, there is a good reason.

Mir, to begin with is a professor/lecturer in a University, teaching Law (and economics?), in Malaysia.Besides that, he is the very same infamous lawyer, who was on the defence council of the perpetuators, in the infamous Mukhtaran Mai episode.

Mir, remember when I posted that Uni of Michgan link on a similar thread, well if you go deep into that article, a male to female will have a complete female genetalia, and sexual intercourse can be performed.Since the surgery is also known as penile inversion/reversal, the debth of the vagina would be just the size as the length of the Linga.

For a female to male SRS, the skin is used from the existing genetalia, and the length is barely bhindian, with no room for an errection. The only purpose it serves is to urinate while standing up, & psychological self satisfaction.

Therefore, the couple were Lesbians before they started out, and one just got a SRS.Amazing part is that I never knew that a Pakistani Plastic Surgeon performed such surgery in Pakistan.

Said that, why has the surgeon been served a show cause notice?I mean, he wasn't the qazi who solemnized the marriage, neither did he knew that 'he' would be getting married soon, or for that matter, he never submitted falsefied document to the court either.

In karachi, I had a neighbour, who actually flew to Thailand, and had a MTF SRS performed, went with documents to the Pakistan Embassy, got his her passport ammended, and returned back as a girl.

How can the courts hold a surgeon liable?

Hakim Bey: Don't just survive while waiting for someone's revolution to clear your head
Napoleon Bonaparte: The world suffers a lot, not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!

P.S. Molvees. I am only asking. Please dont label me as promoting it or issue a fatwa against me.

you have a sense of humour...

And Allah knows best.

w/salaam

In case I forgot here is it is... Asalaamualikum

"There is none worthy of worship but He, glorified be He: [Far is He] above that which they associate [with Him]" (Qur'an 9:31)

Not equal are the owners of the fire and the owners of the Garden. The owners of the Garden, they are the victorious. [Quran 59:20]

Allah knows best [who are] your enemies. Allah is sufficient as a Friend, and Allah is sufficient as a Helper. [4:45]

Fudayl ibn Iyaad said: "Verily, if an action was done sincerely for the sake of Allah but was not correct, it will not be accepted by Allah. And if the action was correct but not done sincerely it will not be accepted until the act is sincere and correct. For it to be sincere, it has to be done for the sake of Allah, and in order for it to be correct, it has to agree to the sunnah."

the Messenger of Allah pbuh says; “whoever does not care about the affairs of the Muslims is not one of them.”

"For a female to male SRS, the skin is used from the existing genetalia, and the length is barely bhindian, with no room for an errection. The only purpose it serves is to urinate while standing up, & psychological self satisfaction"

That is different situation and such surgery is very common in Pakistan, you see the papers and you will find every now and then "Gugrinwala ke Mukhtaran mai Mukhtar ban gye".............

Here in this case problem is not related to medical but it is you call "confused sexual behaviour" or lesbianism, where a girl believed that whe is in love with her cusine and went surgery to remover her female parts just to pose like a man.

We have no specific laws regarding such marriages and no law to make it as a crime, there are also incidents where a guy marries a She male (khusra) although such marriages are never registerd, but unless one of the party complains sexual abuse there is no law to stop it, same is marriage of two gilrs, there is no governing provision in law.

Talking about sec 377, the basic requirement is that one party must complain that other person subjected him/her to sex, while here both are denying the sexual act.

The only stupid thing these girls did was to register their marriage and going to court filing a false affidavit that one of them is male and married to other, otherwise if above 18 girls decide to live togather, no law can stop them.

Now let us see what court decides, but I doubt that in absense of any law court can punish them, except for cheating on court, maximum court can do is ask government to do legislation on this issue and that too wont hurt these girls as it is before that legislation.

A moment of justice delivered is far valued than sixty nights of worship"

Mir, what about the surgeon, I'm more curious to that query of mine, thanks.

Hakim Bey: Don't just survive while waiting for someone's revolution to clear your head
Napoleon Bonaparte: The world suffers a lot, not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!

Mir, what about the surgeon, I'm more curious to that query of mine, thanks.

Justice Khawja Shraif is a typicall lahori, the ex president of High Court Bar and from Bhati............lol, he have just given it a spice, no body can do anything about any sergod in world, why he did surgery on a person unless person come out and complain.

QUOTE(noxiouspython @ May 23 2007, 03:09 PM)

AoaWell based on this and this, it is not permissible.you have a sense of humour...

And Allah knows best.

w/salaam

I agree with you, it is not permitted under islamic law, but unless you have specific law in a country, you can not convict a person, which we do not have, this is first case and state would have to do legislation.

A moment of justice delivered is far valued than sixty nights of worship"

Justice Khawja Shraif is a typicall lahori, the ex president of High Court Bar and from Bhati............lol, he have just given it a spice, no body can do anything about any sergod in world, why he did surgery on a person unless person come out and complain.I agree with you, it is not permitted under islamic law, but unless you have specific law in a country, you can not convict a person, which we do not have, this is first case and state would have to do legislation.

Well MIR bro this i quite interesting matter. Though so far reading ur post i do realise that there is no legal barrier to same sex Relationship (though without sexual activity) or marriage where on person had some sort of sex change. I dont know whether tis is due to the fact that in Pakistani society such cases are rare or our stupid leaders neva had time to look at social issues so they can make some proper laws to give direction to courts as well as to establish acceptable behaviour within our society.

But what amazes me most is the fact that WEST always potrays us as being backward and society that opresses ppl. However in Australia such marraige are not acceptable unless it can be proven that the the person who had sex change was known as the person who he was pretending to be, every1 he know accept him as a person he is appearing, his records show him to be of the sex and than the courts might allow such cases. But trust me after reading ur response i can say that Pakistani society is far more liberal even Islam(though opinion might differ) is far more liberal in this regard than western nations especially Australia.

But in regards to the direction of the case i can see this marriage will be delcare invalid. I think the reference the judge has made so far are quite decisive but than again it might be just the beginign. Coz he has so far reffered to their relationship as Unnatural as well as medical procedures have found it to be the case as both are sexually females. Now i think there is strong ground for marriage getting declared invalid.

BTW MIR questions for u, which i cant answer..

HOW DO U SHOW THAT SEXUAL ACT HAS TAKEN PLACE CONSIDERING BOTH PARTNERS HAVE VAGINA? Considering relationship between males can be proved evidence of unnatural behaviours, due to penis and penetration... SO how would S777 be applied where TWO females are in question?

As far as i can see there is no statue direction, however im not aware if there is any other section that would apply, so than wouldnt this case actually set precedence in Pakistani legal system for future cases if there isnt any already... I find it really interesting case...

QUOTE(noxiouspython @ May 24 2007, 07:09 AM)

AoaWell based on this and this, it is not permissible.you have a sense of humour...

And Allah knows best.

w/salaam

QUOTE

There may be some (acceptable) reasons for having a sex-change operation that turns one from a male into a female.

Bro can u tell me what would be consider as acceptable reason for sex change?

Pakistan came into being on August 14, 1947. As the Creator willed it, the date corresponded with the empowering night of Ramadan 27 of the year 1366 after the Prophet’s Hijra. Its great destiny was thus set from the start

If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah

The judge also issued a show cause notice to Dr Abdul Hafeez of Kardar Specialist Hospital, who had performed Raj’s sex change operation, asking what law authorised him to do such an operation. Justice Sharif directed the police to produce Dr Kardar at the next hearing and directed the court office to prepare a separate file on this case.

This judge is an idiot. You dont need laws for operating on someone & whats next? What if some woman got a breast implant will he be asking the same question? People make medical decision with their doctors and not with judges and MPs.

Bro can u tell me what would be consider as acceptable reason for sex change?

I'm not really sure, this maybe there to account for any medical need that may arise or something. I too was thinking about this particular thing. What I can guess, and it is a guess, is that it maybe to do with medical condition that requires it, if ever one arises, other than that I don't know. This is because there are two possible reasons why someone would do it;
Either

They want to
OR

The have to [for whatever reason, beyond thier control]

We know that wanting to do it isn't a sufficient reason, the other one could be it then. [I know it's too vague the answer but I can't think of anything else].

I plead ignorance.

w/salaam

In case I forgot here is it is... Asalaamualikum

"There is none worthy of worship but He, glorified be He: [Far is He] above that which they associate [with Him]" (Qur'an 9:31)

Not equal are the owners of the fire and the owners of the Garden. The owners of the Garden, they are the victorious. [Quran 59:20]

Allah knows best [who are] your enemies. Allah is sufficient as a Friend, and Allah is sufficient as a Helper. [4:45]

Fudayl ibn Iyaad said: "Verily, if an action was done sincerely for the sake of Allah but was not correct, it will not be accepted by Allah. And if the action was correct but not done sincerely it will not be accepted until the act is sincere and correct. For it to be sincere, it has to be done for the sake of Allah, and in order for it to be correct, it has to agree to the sunnah."

the Messenger of Allah pbuh says; “whoever does not care about the affairs of the Muslims is not one of them.”

Aoa
I'm not really sure, this maybe there to account for any medical need that may arise or something. I too was thinking about this particular thing. What I can guess, and it is a guess, is that it maybe to do with medical condition that requires it, if ever one arises, other than that I don't know. This is because there are two possible reasons why someone would do it;
Either

They want to
OR

The have to [for whatever reason, beyond thier control]

We know that wanting to do it isn't a sufficient reason, the other one could be it then. [I know it's too vague the answer but I can't think of anything else].

I plead ignorance.

w/salaam

Bro the reason i asked this was coz it is really hard to draw distinction between the two. I mean it would be near impossible to really tell what is a "need" and what is a "want". Coz there would be some similar elements in both..

Thanks anway.... so there is somthing where some work is required by scholars....

Pakistan came into being on August 14, 1947. As the Creator willed it, the date corresponded with the empowering night of Ramadan 27 of the year 1366 after the Prophet’s Hijra. Its great destiny was thus set from the start

If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah

This judge is an idiot. You dont need laws for operating on someone & whats next? What if some woman got a breast implant will he be asking the same question? People make medical decision with their doctors and not with judges and MPs.

Less not get there. Prehaps there might be legal issue abt it. There are also other legal issues attached with her new identity now these are relvant matters and actullay could mount to fraud.

Pakistan came into being on August 14, 1947. As the Creator willed it, the date corresponded with the empowering night of Ramadan 27 of the year 1366 after the Prophet’s Hijra. Its great destiny was thus set from the start

If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah

This judge is an idiot. You dont need laws for operating on someone & whats next? What if some woman got a breast implant will he be asking the same question? People make medical decision with their doctors and not with judges and MPs.

Girls dont have enough money to engage some good lawyer, I think some "paindoo" is representing them otherwise Judge would not have behaved like this, his remarks are absolutely against the law.

Doctor patient relation is protected and a Judge is no body to ask a doctor why he performed operation on any one, unless patient comes out to complain.

If some NGO come in matter and provides girls with some good lawyer the matter would become purely of accadimic nature and there would be many new points which were never raised before.

1 Pakistani,

Even if their marriage is declared invalid, the Pakistani law allows these girls to live togather, even a girl and a boy who are living togather with their free will and are above 18 is not illegal, this was the point decided by supreme court in Wahab Ul khairi's daughters caes. It doesnot make that boy or girl living togther are actually doing sex, and no one have power under our laws to check what people do inside their house or in private life.

A moment of justice delivered is far valued than sixty nights of worship"

You do know that homosexuality is against the principles of Islam and should be discouraged. OK, it may be prevalent within our society but should it be encouraged? We are not naive to believe thats its just a cursory relationship but I suppose the onous of proof is on the state. Hijras are allowed full protection so its strange to see such hooha with these girl(s). Its the press sensationalising, reporting at its extreme. Soon it'll become a media circus with everyone will be baying for their blood. How awful.

QUOTE(MirBadshah @ May 24 2007, 03:58 AM)

Girls dont have enough money to engage some good lawyer, I think some "paindoo" is representing them otherwise Judge would not have behaved like this, his remarks are absolutely against the law.

Doctor patient relation is protected and a Judge is no body to ask a doctor why he performed operation on any one, unless patient comes out to complain.

If some NGO come in matter and provides girls with some good lawyer the matter would become purely of accadimic nature and there would be many new points which were never raised before.

1 Pakistani,

Even if their marriage is declared invalid, the Pakistani law allows these girls to live togather, even a girl and a boy who are living togather with their free will and are above 18 is not illegal, this was the point decided by supreme court in Wahab Ul khairi's daughters caes. It doesnot make that boy or girl living togther are actually doing sex, and no one have power under our laws to check what people do inside their house or in private life.

Girls dont have enough money to engage some good lawyer, I think some "paindoo" is representing them otherwise Judge would not have behaved like this, his remarks are absolutely against the law.

Doctor patient relation is protected and a Judge is no body to ask a doctor why he performed operation on any one, unless patient comes out to complain.

If some NGO come in matter and provides girls with some good lawyer the matter would become purely of accadimic nature and there would be many new points which were never raised before.

1 Pakistani,

Even if their marriage is declared invalid, the Pakistani law allows these girls to live togather, even a girl and a boy who are living togather with their free will and are above 18 is not illegal, this was the point decided by supreme court in Wahab Ul khairi's daughters caes. It doesnot make that boy or girl living togther are actually doing sex, and no one have power under our laws to check what people do inside their house or in private life.

So whats the purpose of S-777, to me it seems rather useless as the requirement of sexual taking place i mean how do u prove that act. No 1 is going to do it in public nor are they gonna invite some1 to their home and do it infront of them. So i dont see what is the real purpose of S-777. Also How do u medically prove that two female ingaged in sexual act. It might be possible with males but i dont know how u can find that out with females..

Now in regards to Doctor. Well if Doctors are not made accountable than u can have open abuse where doctors would change identity of individuals. Well in this matter as far as im concered there is should be mechanism where the doctor operating has to inform certain authority so that the change in sex, hence chagne in identity is recorded properly so u dont have open abuse as well as two different identities of individuals. espcially when in Pakistan we have Identity cards....

Pakistan came into being on August 14, 1947. As the Creator willed it, the date corresponded with the empowering night of Ramadan 27 of the year 1366 after the Prophet’s Hijra. Its great destiny was thus set from the start

If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah

Well Mir did say, unless the patient complains.If the patient is not complaining (as in that kidney case), then the doctor did nothing wrong.

The doctor will give the patient all reports, related to surgery and clinical visits, (along with a letter), which the patient can take to relevant Nadra department, and get their NIC ammended, in the sex and/or name column.

The judge has no friggin right to question that?

Women have breast implants every day, if it's legal for women, then it's legal for men, and vice versa.If a enunch can get themselves castrated, and a female/male can enlarge their breast, then why can't the female get a lil bhindi type bulge in their pants, can the prosecution prove it that the bulge is a penis?

Hakim Bey: Don't just survive while waiting for someone's revolution to clear your head
Napoleon Bonaparte: The world suffers a lot, not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!

AoaWell based on this and this, it is not permissible.you have a sense of humour...

And Allah knows best.

w/salaam

Noxious chacha I don't think this encompasses all cases posssible so don't say sex change is haram based on these two opinions. This dealt only with transsexuals who say they're deep inside their jazbaat a different personality, indeed the other gender. There actually are cases when you need to get your genetalia altered, eg in a natural sex transition. It also ignored total hormonal insensitivity ie when a person is phenotypically (appearance-wise) the opposite of her genotype (her DNAcomposition) ie the sex chromosomes may be XY but the person a normal girl and this can only be discovered by genetic analysis which obviously not everyone has done.

So this aalim's opinion is based on insufficient knowledge. Which is understandable since there arn't many sexologists around to deliberate with.

Well Mir did say, unless the patient complains.If the patient is not complaining (as in that kidney case), then the doctor did nothing wrong.

The doctor will give the patient all reports, related to surgery and clinical visits, (along with a letter), which the patient can take to relevant Nadra department, and get their NIC ammended, in the sex and/or name column.

The judge has no friggin right to question that?

Well, in Pakistan a judge can take a somoto action ( unilateral action even w/o complain) if matter is of public importance. But the question is...in what way is this issue important to the public? Btw, I'm all for putting them in jail for lying to the court b/c that is a crime, but what does doctor has to do with this? Thats why I think this judge is an idiot.

Islamabad - A Pakistani court on Monday handed down a three-year jail sentence for deception to a wife and her husband who was born a female and underwent a sex change 16 years ago.

Shahzina Tariq, 26, and husband Shumail Raj, 31, were arrested by police nine days ago after they appealed to the Lahore High Court for protection from relatives seeking to have their marriage annulled on the grounds that it was against Islam for women to wed.

The husband's gender change came to light during a medical exam by a court doctor.

The judge jailed the couple for misleading the court and directed that Raj should be given psychological treatment. Authorities were also ordered to register a case against the doctors who originally performed the sex reassignment.

The couple says they originally married to protect Shahzina from being sold into marriage to pay off her uncle's gambling debts.

I am not acquainted with the legal issues, however, I may help you with the medical ones in this case. Surgeons can reform genitalia in the opposite sex including vagina or penis. But problem is that they can not give full outlook of the opposite sex like a full male beard in this case. I wondered that the alleged girl in this case had "ambiguous genitalia syndrom", in which case the testosterone had not started producing till late. In normal male it starts producing at a base line level in womb making male genitalia and then surges at the puberty. In this syndrome it does not happen till late say after puberty, so the child genitalia resembles female like in childhood and secondary sex male characters like beard etc do not appear till testosterone appear. So I would say this girl was probably a male in disguise and once her testosterone appeared she with the help of the doctor was restored back to her original sex, however, society refused to accept! This is not an uncommon presentation in such cases. I have seen in the UK, the cases in which males underwent operation to become females but they have to shave their faces for rest of their life. Although they get breast implant and operation to construct vagina, they do not lose secondary sex characters. In this case its different because he has an actual beard and where breasts have disappeared (unless these have been surgically removed-which is unlikely) ! So it looks like a case of Ambiguous genitalia.

THIS is in reference to the news items appearing in the national press about two young persons from Punjab who have been labelled as the ‘she-couple’, and the sensational way in which the events, especially involving Raj, are being portrayed.

I write in my capacity as a physician who has taken care of many individuals born with medical conditions that fit within the broad category of gender ambiguity or transgender disorders. These are conditions over which the affected individuals have no control and which can lead to tragic consequences for them and their families.

I am, therefore, appalled and horrified at the insensitivity and ignorance with which this couple is being dealt with.

Whether one develops the identity of a ‘she’ or a ‘he’ in life depends on a combination of factors that include the chromosomal structure which will determine whether testis or ovaries will form in the foetus, the external appearance of the genitalia at birth, and the gender in which the parents raise the child in the first two to three years of life. The majority of us are fortunate that at birth all these factors ‘match’ and thus there is no unclarity in our gender.

However, there are well-known, well-reported medical conditions in which a child is born with various mixtures of the above three factors, leading to gender ambiguity at birth. The vast majority of our physicians are unfamiliar with these conditions and such children often remain undiagnosed at birth.

I have managed many children raised as ‘girls’ who were brought to me at puberty because they had begun to sprout facial hair and undergo a change in their voice.

Psychological assessment revealed many to be clinically depressed and sometimes even suicidal.

The issue of gender ambiguity is complex and requires specialised medical and psychological experts for diagnosis and management. Raj is said to have been examined by a ‘panel of doctors’ and determined to be a ‘she’. From the news reports available it is unclear on what basis this opinion was formed and what was the background and expertise of the doctors involved in this assessment.

What is evident, however, even to a ‘non-medical’ eye is that Raj’s photographs appearing in the newspapers reveal a normal male facial hair distribution and a normal male body physique.

One of the most regrettable parts of the story is the insufficient attention being paid to the social context within which the two young people took this step. Shahzina Tariq has reported (Dawn, May 21 and May 23) that she was being forced by her father and uncle to marry against her wishes, and that her father had threatened to kill her if she refused.

This case raises not only troubling questions about our lack of understanding of a complex medical and psychological condition by dismissing it merely as a ‘sex change’, but also profound concerns about our lack of compassion as a society and our strange notions of what constitutes justice.

EVERYBODY is sensationalising the plight of the couple from Faisalabad, who if they thought had done anything wrong would not have approached the court to provide them security, as they were being harassed by their relatives, who allegedly wanted to trade the girl to settle a debt.

Do we not remember the same press giving headline to news like ‘Vehari ki Mussarat Khalid ban gayee’, well I do, with pictures of the proud parents claiming they always wanted a son (well who doesn't in the Islamic Republic). There were quite a few reported cases which are just the tip of the iceberg, as most are kept as secrets keeping in view our ‘tolerant’ society.

Well anyway where do you think are those ‘men’? I am sure living among us, trying to lead as normal lives as possible, and why not, it wasn’t their fault that they were born as one sex, while their apparent sex was otherwise. Who are we to ostracise them because we are fortunate to be normal.

We know of some cases where the marriages have been arranged by the families with both the parties aware of everything and they are living normally for years.

So please let us be civilised for a change, and stop giving fatwas on each and every matter, by considering it to be influenced by the distorted values of the West. I am also surprised by the doctors’ panel who did not go beyond the physical findings.

Let us live and let live.

DR S AHMAD Lahore

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