David's method:Invent a dummy religion (mine is St Postula and her Screeves). Get the details pretty much straight in your mind. You can even prepare some leaflets.As soon as they approach, get in first with "Are you adequately saved? You may think you're saved, but unless you ......"Don't give 'em a break to get a word in.They will go.

My grandfather used to invite all sorts of proselytisers into the house, take their books and tracts, hear what they had to say; and when the mormons came back, he'd try to convert them to being Jehova's Witnesses; when the Jehova's Witnesses came back he'd try and convert them to Hare Krishna; and so on. Played a mean game of chess, did my grandfather. You had to be on your toes when you were dealing with him.

I like to think that religious people can be saved from their religion, so if I am approached and have time, I do like to try and save them. They were coming to try and save me, so I return the compliment.

Jehovah's Witnesses are the usual ones who need saving. I can't help but feel a little sorry for them. Imagine actually believing that? It must be like suffering from a severe mental illness. I invite them in and offer them a hot drink, and then ask them to explain to me exactly how they ended up believing in their thing, who it was that introduced them, why they haven't managed to get out of it, etc.

These days I can't help but laugh when they approach, and the ones that know turn around and skedaddle.

Just to follow up, I think I have contributed to the saving of a few of them over the years. I can't be certain, and never had the chance to verify. But also... I suspect that some people are better off perhaps with their belief. Especially if they have been convinced of it for a long time and are adapted to it. Losing their faith might be really upsetting for them.

And, while I do not believe in any god, nor even actually in the possibility, I like to think that if the evidence was overwhelming (eg, say God appeared before me and proved to me that he/it was God, and also that I wasn't mad/crazy or trapped inside a pre-death brain-haemorrhaging fantasy, and he/it spent some time and actually made a bit of an effort) then I would be open-minded enough to change my views.

Oh shit, hang on - by ANY god, I mean EXCEPT The FSM, blessed be his Noodliness!

parmesan wrote:I suspect that some people are better off perhaps with their belief. Especially if they have been convinced of it for a long time and are adapted to it. Losing their faith might be really upsetting for them.

Bertrand Russell wrote:It seems to me a fundamental dishonesty and a fundamental treachery to intellectual integrity is to hold a belief﻿ because you think it's useful and not because you think it's true.

parmesan wrote:And, while I do not believe in any god, nor even actually in the possibility, I like to think that if the evidence was overwhelming (eg, say God appeared before me and proved to me that he/it was God, and also that I wasn't mad/crazy or trapped inside a pre-death brain-haemorrhaging fantasy, and he/it spent some time and actually made a bit of an effort) then I would be open-minded enough to change my views.

parmesan wrote:I suspect that some people are better off perhaps with their belief. Especially if they have been convinced of it for a long time and are adapted to it. Losing their faith might be really upsetting for them.

Bertrand Russell wrote:It seems to me a fundamental dishonesty and a fundamental treachery to intellectual integrity is to hold a belief﻿ because you think it's useful and not because you think it's true.

I dunno, I knew a guy who was just a little weird when he was a Christian, but become completely [email protected] insane when he lost his faith. Also knew a guy who stopped abusing drugs and got himself together after converting (there was also the issue of his smokin' hot Christian girlfriend).

I'm not saying that being Christian (or any other religion) is necessarily a good thing, but sometimes it is the lesser of two evils.

PKMKII wrote:[I'm not saying that being Christian (or any other religion) is necessarily a good thing, but sometimes it is the lesser of two evils.

Yes I agree with that. I used to be more on the side of Bertrand Russell, but it seems to me that our perceptions of reality are soft enough that it is better to be kind sometimes - better that someone is happy with a harmless delusion, than sad without it.

For similar reasons, I like to believe that I am kind and generous and good-hearted, even though my wife assures me that the reality is I am a selfish self-indulgent greedy bastard obsessed with sex.

Roy Hunter wrote:My grandfather used to invite all sorts of proselytisers into the house, take their books and tracts, hear what they had to say; and when the mormons came back, he'd try to convert them to being Jehova's Witnesses; when the Jehova's Witnesses came back he'd try and convert them to Hare Krishna; and so on. Played a mean game of chess, did my grandfather. You had to be on your toes when you were dealing with him.

LOL, that is brilliant, what a great man!I really like that idea, if I get the chance I will see if I can do it with a straight face :)

We used to get a group of Xtian fundies ranting about evolution and how it didn't exist in Cornmarket St in Oxford. A few of us spent 2 or 3 Saturdays set up across the street from them preaching the word of the FSM and just basically copying all the stuff they said (including the anti-evolution stuff - after all we all know that the FSM created the world and all the evidence for evolution is His Noodliness just inventing it...).

They didn't seem to like we got bigger crowds then them - especially when we led the FSM version of the lords prayer.

Hey, CF, I didn't know you are/were at Oxford. I was at Hertford from 1965; in those days we didn't have the blessed knowledge of the FSM to throw at the OICCU and other religious loonies, of which we had far too many.