Monday, July 26, 1965

My talk is always-at the conclusion of my talk is always why we
should practice zazen. Now this is not-my talk is not just cordial
talk and, basically, my talk is based on Shobogenzo.
Fortunately we have a system of-we have complete system-how to
understand true religion. The true religion cannot be understood by
philosophical way or scientific way. The only way to understand or
to realize our true nature is just true practice. Without true
practice it is impossible to realize our true nature. Of course,
what we do, whether we are aware of it or not, what we do in our
everyday life is based on true-our true nature. True nature drive
us to do something but if you do not understand, or
if you do not realize your true-what is true nature, and if you
have no system to know the actual meaning of your true nature, you
will get into confusion.

There are many and many scientists who become interested in
religion, it is true. Some of them perhaps interested in true
religion, but some of them will not have the true understanding of
religion. As long as there are just-their understanding is just
limited in scientific reality, it is impossible to know what is
true religion because religion should be understood by religious
way. Religion shou- [partial word]-is not understood by philosophy
or science.

And some philosophers, of course, may interested in true
religion, but it is impossible for philosophers-it is impossible to
reach the complete understanding of religion through philosophical
study because in philosophical study the conclusion of philosophy
will be different. The authority of Greek philosophy is still
powerful in this age. So it is very difficult to understand-to
reach the true understanding of religion which everyone will agree
with it.

So-but Soto school has pretty deep philosophy, but as I said
last night, the Shobogenzo or the philosophy of Zen is just
a lid, just a cover of a pan because people may interested in Zen,
but it may be rather difficult for them to know what is true Zen.
Without some intellectual understanding, it is difficult to figure
out what is Zen. So that is why we have philosophy of Zen. But
[laughs] by philosophy you cannot have true understanding of Zen.
Zen should be understood by Zen, by practice of Zen, not by
philosophy, even by Shobogenzo, even reading-even by reading
Shobogenzo, you cannot [laughs] understand what-you cannot realize
what it-actually realize what is Zen. So only way is just
practice Zen which-right understanding-if you do not have right
understanding, the-your practice will be mixed up with some other
practice. And that is why, I think, in America there are so many
misunderstanding of Zen.

So, by Shobogenzo, we have to polish our practice and we
have to keep various misunderstanding-keeps our practice Zen from
various misunderstanding. That is why we have Shobogenzo.
That is why in sesshin I should talk. This kind of talk is not, you
know-the purpose of my talk is not to give you some knowledge, but
to-by my talk I want you to-I want to encourage your practice
without being interested in philosophical bits of our system. In
this point if you make misunderstanding, the result will be pretty
serious.

And fortunately, our system of encouraging people is the same-is
the same as other schools-philosophy of other schools. So if you
understand Shobogenzo, you will understand some other
schools, and why there are so many schools in Buddhism. If we do
not have this system of various schools in Buddhism is quite
different from other schools, and there will not be any connection
with each other. With this system, we will-each schools-we will
find out the meaning of existence-why Soto Zen like this, why
Rinzai Zen like this, why [1 word unclear] school exist, why Tendai
school exist, why all those schools are important. Unfortunately,
it is rather difficult to translate Shobogenzo in English,
but we are making effort to do it. And many scholars had given some
interpretation, some modern, some up-to-date interpretation to it.
So if we only have time, it is not impossible to give you complete
system of our understanding of Buddhism.

We say we have two kinds of knowledge: intuitive knowledge
and-and thinking, discriminating knowledge. The scientific
knowledge and the philosophical knowledge is the dualistic thinking
knowledge. As long as we use word and we think by words, it is
impossible to reach the absolute conclusion. When we just resume to
our own nature, which is universal to everyone, we can achieve-we
can realize our true nature, which is universal to human being and
even for animals and plants and everything-existence. And that is
why in Zen practice we stop our mind. We do not put any
consideration to our sensitive [partial word]-sensitivity or
thinking. Whatever image come, you just accept it and let them go
out. [Laughs.] And whatever sound you hear, you let them come in
and let them go out. When you do not pay any attention to outward
objects, you will find out your true nature.

This true nature, when you are healthy and practice zazen in
this way, it-it is just calm and some inexplicable thing itself.
But when you have some actual problem-when you have pain on your
legs, you will have direct experience of [laughs] your true nature.
But, you know, don't mistake: that is true nature. That is
true nature plus something-plus your painful legs. Something
is added on true nature, and true nature takes the form of pain.
This relationship is very important and if you understand this
relationship-your true nature and your pain-there's a key to solve
all the problem of life. Through problem we will realize our
nature, true nature. When we-when I am hungry, what I feel is what
you will feel when you are hungry [laughs]. There might be some
difference, but not much difference. And how you feel when you sit
is how everyone feels when you sit. Strictly speaking, that is
enough, even though you do not attain enlightenment [laughs]; if
everyone sit and find out how you feel when you sit, that's good
enough. We will-in this point-we will reach some agreement. But if
you are caught by some fancy idea of religion-there may be various
religion-and you don't know what religion is yours
[laughs]-Buddhism, Christianity or Indian religion or some folk,
native religion-you don't know what to choose. Sometimes
everyone-every religion looks like same. Sometimes it doesn't look
like same. But when religion is studied the most simplest way, the
most universal way, [2-3 words unclear] want of sleep or hunger or
pain or-we will reach the universal religion-universal religion
even to animals. Here we have common playground. Everyone will play
in this common playground.

So you shouldn't have-according to Buddha or our patriarchs or
founder of various religion-you should not have too fancy idea of
religion. Religion should be understood the most foolish [laughs]
man, not [one word unclear] wise man. Wise man's religion is
compli- [partial word]-very complicated and very fancy. If his [1-2
words unclear] too great, you will-you will be attached to his
religion. That is good. If you really want to do it, that's good
[laughs]. Just because of the name or, you know, some gaining idea.
We should not attach to some particular religion. That is why we
say don't study religion with gaining idea-gaining idea. Gaining
idea is not-gaining idea is not based on your true nature. That is
very superficial desire-not so deep as your hunger. When we give up
the various gaining idea, we will find out our true nature. And
this true nature is very primitive, of course. And at the same time
it could be very, very refined and deep, lofty idea-desire. And
this primitive, fundamental desire [two words unclear] true [one
word unclear] and various possibility. But if you start from fancy
idea of religion, you will be con [partial word]-more confused. So
to realize why we study-why we study religion is to find out the
meaning of our fundamental desire-how important it is, and how
miraculous it is. And how much prosperity it has.

Now when we-all of us is concentrated on this point, there will
not be any religious sectarianism. Because we start from some
particular philosophy of religion, we have various sectarianism.
When we have just one lid, just one cover, which covers various pan
and bowls [laughs], there will be no problem. Our cover, our
philosophy, is not the same philosophy as usual philosophers will
provide for us.

Today, I just gave you some general-general of-idea of our
system. But this point-we sh- [partial word]-other sort of
student-this point should not be neglected. We should be-when we
study Buddhism intellectually, we should be concentrated on this
point. And as well as your practice. Just practice is not so good
because you may practice zazen for sake of something. You will
abuse your Zen practice until you mix pure practice with various
country or wrong practice.

In short, Soto way is to use everything in right purpose and to
put everything, its own-its own place. What should be put on high
place should be put on high place, and what should be put of-on the
floor should be on floor. In America, you know, you put scriptures
[laughs] on the floor where you walk. We don't, you know. But I
don't know how to do it, how to treat those scriptures in your way
of life. So until I find out [laughs] some way, I don't say, "Don't
put scriptures on the floor." But this is not supposed to be put
on-supposed to be treated as-as rubbish, you know-as rubbish. This
is not rubbish. Scripture should be put on table or altar or in
your hand. Those small things is very important.

And this idea-with this idea, we study science: What is science?
What is religion? What is Buddhism? There is the way to study
philosophy; there is particular way to study science. There is
particular way to study religion. Religion should be studied by
religious way, not by science. Scientists cannot criticize [laughs]
what religion unless he become religious. But-and
religious-religion gives-or give way science and philosophy.
Define-to find the meaning of science is religion. To find the
meaning of philosophy is religion. But science or philosophy-in
science or in philosophy, there is no religion. This relation
[partial word]-this relationship is very important. Dogen-zenji
says, "Our ordinary way-although you know our ordinary way-in our
ordinal [ordinary] life there is no Buddha's way. People understand
that. Or-I don't know [laughs]-may not understand it, but he says.
They may understand there is no ho- [partial word]-it is impossible
to realize-to know what is religion in ordinal [ordinary] way. But
from viewpoint of religion, there is no ordinary [?] life.
Everything-what we do is religion.

This kind of system is very important for us. I shall be very
glad if you find out why this kind of understanding is so necessary
for us. It is very important because it is the only way to find out
the harmony in various religion we have. When various religious
people understand this [one word unclear], this system, then
religion will be one. Not Buddhism, not Christianity, not one
school of Christianity or Buddhism. The one whole big family of
religious people will be established. There is this possibility in
his [Dogen's] understanding.