I just got in to scooters and bought what I thought was the best. I have 276 miles on my 2010 Vespa 300 GTS and went into the dealer for a windshield. He informed me that my engine has a rod knock. I build ultralight engines for a living and know this is real bad news. I feel with such low mileage the entire engine should be replaced. Any thoughts ????

its brand new from the dealer, brand new. I bought it 3 weeks ago and rode it 50 miles hole. 168 miles around home and 50 miles bck for a windshield. Being this new I feel a rebuilt engine is unfair. Metal went through this engine and all of the bearings. Fixing the cause will not cure all the damage occured.

At first he talked about how the bigger engines never gave any troubles. ( this lead me to think they do not have much experance working on them ) and how it sounds like a rod knock and they would fix it. 3 weeks and over $7000 out the door and I'm going to own a scooter that was just brought back from the dead . OUCH What can I do ?????

At first he talked about how the bigger engines never gave any troubles. ( this lead me to think they do not have much experance working on them ) and how it sounds like a rod knock and they would fix it. 3 weeks and over $7000 out the door and I'm going to own a scooter that was just brought back from the dead . OUCH What can I do ?????

Knowing engines it sounded like noisy lifters to me. When it was cold it was much louder, after 1 mile it was much quieter. It seemed ok. I changed the oil and the screen had in it 1/2 thimble of trash. Plastic, metal .aluminum etc. I feel they may screw it up more than help it ??

It seemed normal to me . I built over 400 ultralight Rotax engines in the last 4 years . It seemed a little louder than the one they started for me but not that much. AGAIN it is much worse when cold. Keep in mind cold here is 75 degs. Then it seems to go away. What would that be. Lifters ???

Knowing engines it sounded like noisy lifters to me. When it was cold it was much louder, after 1 mile it was much quieter. It seemed ok. I changed the oil and the screen had in it 1/2 thimble of trash. Plastic, metal .aluminum etc. I feel they may screw it up more than help it ??

That sounds a lot of trash. A real lot. Normally there's nothing at all.

So he may be right, and a bearing has gone south - not unheard of (but very rare) in new engines. Any plastic in there is especially worrying - could be oil pump gear bits.

Ok lets say its a bearing or oil pump and crap went through the entire engine at 276 miles. They fix the oil pump or replace the failed bearing . The bearings , pistons, cylinders were all run with debre going them. What should I demand replaced?? I know I would send a replacement engine and feel ashamed of the first one.

Ok lets say its a bearing or oil pump and crap went through the entire engine at 276 miles. They fix the oil pump or replace the failed bearing . The bearings , pistons, cylinders were all run with debre going them. What should I demand replaced?? I know I would send a replacement engine and feel ashamed of the first one.

Insist on a new scooter. What are your states lemon laws. You may have a reasonable path. I did have a problem with a dealer being willing to have a reasonable conversation with Piaggio. Good luck hang in and you'll get it done right!

The problem is that Piaggio will never, ever, give out a whole replacement engine. If needed, they'll supply under warranty *all the parts* - but then it's got to be built...

If there's concern - strip the bugger down and find out the cause of the noise/trash - and if that's a complete new engine (delivered in bits mark you) that's job done.

I know it's a very personal concern for you - but better found out now than barrelling down the road at 80mph and having a hard seize.

My suspicion iis that it's just one component that's come adrift a bit - and the oil filtration will have stopped any of those bits getting into sensitive areas. Get it fixed - if you sincerely feel there's a problem.

Should I go there Monday and take it home . ??? Run it and see what happens . The dealer already told me if I take it it will mess up the wearranty . I don't mind the expense I just want the best. Can I trust the dealer mechanic's??? I road race at Dayton on a TZ 250 in 1991 and I know about seizure's. It sucks $7000 an problems alredy.

I'd actually suggest (as it's so new) that their potential problems and yours would be much diminished if *they* contacted Piaggio and got them to agree to a complete replacement bike. There' not much point in you contacting Piaggio unless you want a long uphill battle and more delays than you'd believe.

Your contract is with your dealer. Theirs is with Piaggio.

However, I'm aware that in some places the local 'Lemon Laws' may make this trickier than it might seem at first sight.

I want to thank everyone for the help. I looked up Florida lemon laws and they do not apply to scooters or motorcycles. These seem like simple engines the more I look into it so I feel I may have to take what I get and deal with it down the road. We will see what Vespa is really made of. So much for buying the best !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is no bleeping way I would accept that situation. Warranty is warranty, and if a dealer wishes to maintain their reputation, they'll make it right. Whether the resolution is a new engine or whether it's a new bike is their decision, but I cannot imagine a responsible dealer letting a customer walk out with any engine noise at all coming from a bike with all of 276 miles on the odo.

I've only lived in 6 states, and every one was different. I find your advise "idealer centric", life is different here. 50 states are often like 50 countries. Until you've walked in another dozen or so shoes...

I prefer to take the time to find out what my options are. Unfortunately there are any number of riders punked by failed dealers. Sending your dishwasher nephew to Vespa training usually doesn't work, for long.

So, while you are right about how it should work, "nuttintall be so". Sometimes it reminds me of business in the caribbean. Don't Stop the Carnival

I feel they will . I'm still in shock . If not I feel down the road I will make it even better by myself . I own a 350 Ford pick up and my Vespa. I'm 54 and plan on these 2 vehicles being the last I purchase . Sooner or later I would have had to rebuild it BUT 3 weeks COME ON THAT HURTS. We will see and I will keep you all posted . This will be a good test for all.

But not just here in the EU (where there is no 'lemon law' as such, it can get tough) - that warranty is king. Negotiate with the dealer - if they want their reputation to soar they'll deal with it - even if it takes a year getting hold of Piaggio engine 'bits'. Alice's (Huskyteer's) GP800 took over a year to get a failed head gasket sorted. But sorted it was. That was in the last few months of a two-year warranty with over 30,000 miles on the odo mark you.

Three weeks and less than 300 miles should get a new scoot IMHO - but chat friendly-like to the dealer first - they're in between a rock (Piaggio) and a hard place (understandably disappointed customer).

I'd not take the bike from the dealer until resolved and I'd want to inspect the components before reassembly to be assured of their condition. But yeah, a warranty gives the manufacturer the right to repair or replace. I'd want a replacement scooter. A new engine comes with title hassles. How did you pay?

The problem is that Piaggio will never, ever, give out a whole replacement engine. If needed, they'll supply under warranty *all the parts* - but then it's got to be built...

If there's concern - strip the bugger down and find out the cause of the noise/trash - and if that's a complete new engine (delivered in bits mark you) that's job done.

I know it's a very personal concern for you - but better found out now than barrelling down the road at 80mph and having a hard seize.

My suspicion iis that it's just one component that's come adrift a bit - and the oil filtration will have stopped any of those bits getting into sensitive areas. Get it fixed - if you sincerely feel there's a problem.

piaggio replaced my gt 250 after a few calls to piaggio corp and conversations with the national service manager and the threat of invoking the AZ lemon law for which it qualified.

Here is what you do: Tell them exactly how you want it fixed. I.e. everything in the engine replaced, new bike, whatever you think is reasonable. Be reasonable!

Put it in writing. Get them to sign it. Be detailed. Don't forget oil pump being replaced.

Don't argue, don't yell. Negotiate down if you feel like you can safely. Just state that this is what you want, and if they don't negotiate, you will take it the next steps.

If they refuse, you have two options:

Minor nuclear option:

Call the local TV station and talk to the consumer protection/advocacy group. Most areas have a least one in the area. they are very popular segments. Get them to help.

Buddy of mine bought a house that had cleared title, then hit with 30K tax lein. The Title Search and Insurance company was paid to do the search and insure the results.

They of course tried to weasel. A call from the local station got it paid out right quick.

Major Nuclear option:

Do this ONLY if you don't want the bike anymore, and don't plan on owning one, ever again.

Find out about a chargeback. Don't do one just yet, just find the final date to claim one. You also might find out about the bank card's own guarantee/warranty service. Sometimes they have augmented service

If they sold you a bike that has a bad engine in such a short time and won't fix the issue, the chargeback is a possible solution.

Just remember, you are pulling out a major nuclear bomb. You are going to give the bike back and get your money back in return.
Likely they will never let you set foot in their facilities again, and you may find yourself having a hard time buying another bike locally, depending on how tight the local dealerships are.

I state this option because as posted above, Piaggio has a reputation as leaving customers and dealers out in the cold. Sometimes there is no way to fix that, and you have the right to protect yourself from being taken.

Give them a chance to deal with it proper, but if they refuse, they have asked for it.

Knowing engines it sounded like noisy lifters to me. When it was cold it was much louder, after 1 mile it was much quieter. It seemed ok. I changed the oil and the screen had in it 1/2 thimble of trash. Plastic, metal .aluminum etc. I feel they may screw it up more than help it ??

Did you change the oil before the dealer told you the engine was knocking? The first oil change is normally done at 625 miles. At that time, if in for service, the dealer would have seen the junk in the screen. But, if you changed the oil early, yourself, (truthfully, nothing wrong with that as long as you used the proper synthetic oil) Piaggio/dealer may use that as a loophole for getting out of repair, even though the dealer said you have a knock and they will fix it. They may claim that the proper amount or type of oil was not put in. Did you change the filter too?

Knowing engines it sounded like noisy lifters to me. When it was cold it was much louder, after 1 mile it was much quieter. It seemed ok. I changed the oil and the screen had in it 1/2 thimble of trash. Plastic, metal .aluminum etc. I feel they may screw it up more than help it ??

Did you change the oil before the dealer told you the engine was knocking? The first oil change is normally done at 625 miles. At that time, if in for service, the dealer would have seen the junk in the screen. But, if you changed the oil early, yourself, (truthfully, nothing wrong with that as long as you used the proper synthetic oil) Piaggio/dealer may use that as a loophole for getting out of repair, even though the dealer said you have a knock and they will fix it. They may claim that the proper amount or type of oil was not put in. Did you change the filter too?

Don't forget, if you used spec oil and filter, the dealer/Piaggio cannot claim you damaged the bike by not letting them do the work.

Magnuson-Moss Act says unless the service is free, and it is not, they cannot void the warranty unless you used unspecified parts.

I just got in to scooters and bought what I thought was the best. I have 276 miles on my 2010 Vespa 300 GTS and went into the dealer for a windshield. He informed me that my engine has a rod knock. I build ultralight engines for a living and know this is real bad news. I feel with such low mileage the entire engine should be replaced. Any thoughts ????

I just got in to scooters and bought what I thought was the best. I have 276 miles on my 2010 Vespa 300 GTS and went into the dealer for a windshield. He informed me that my engine has a rod knock. I build ultralight engines for a living and know this is real bad news. I feel with such low mileage the entire engine should be replaced. Any thoughts ????

I just got in to scooters and bought what I thought was the best. I have 276 miles on my 2010 Vespa 300 GTS and went into the dealer for a windshield. He informed me that my engine has a rod knock. I build ultralight engines for a living and know this is real bad news. I feel with such low mileage the entire engine should be replaced. Any thoughts ????

I justed wanted to let everyone know that Tropical Power Sports in Ft Myers Florida is my dealer. It is run by Lucy and her husband, THEY BEEN NOTHING BUT GREAT SO FAR. FIRST CLASS ALL THE WAY AROUND , I really have no reason to doubt ther mechanical skills or any other Vespa dealer. I just hope it's a small problem and they can fix it. They informed me thay will get right on it Monday and do there very best . That's all I can ask at this time. I will trust them and Vespa at this time and will make sure everyone in the VESPA world know's " just how it well it was handled."
Rick Davis

As far as the oil change, being a licenced aircraft machinic I new better to not touch it without contacting them first. I talked with Lucy to make sure it was not a speical break in oil. I read on blog's and she confirmed it is not . It's the same syntactic oil recomended . I used the same brand she told me to use . Motul 5W40, It was doing the same cold knock before the oil change. The debre was not abnormal as far as I was concern. I did not cut the filter open as we do on aircraft. I may dig it up and see what's in it if the trash man didn't pick it up. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope for a simple fix.

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