Just FYI for some of you older cats like me that prefer a printed manual. I inquired about boxed set and was informed via email that the backup disks will be replaced by a usb stick, and NO PRINTED MANUAL. Just the pdf on the usb stick. Sounds like a pretty empty box to me.....small usb stick and maybe some cool stickers?? Just informing FYI for those of us waiting on boxed sets.Not trying to start a debate about why someone would "need" a printed manual.I work on computers all day long, and prefer to read in print for a change, as well as highlight and make notes on the pages.

I have seen the boxed version listed for same price as download on some websites, but I have seen boxed version for $50 more on other websites. Also for live 9, just the box without a serial could be bought seperately for $50 dollars......but it included a printed manual.

I think the era of printed manuals (especially for computer software) is coming to a close. I welcome the exclusion of manuals, and that is coming from someone that loves reading them.

Firstly, save a tree etc. How it might be "nice" is it really worth it just to waste some paper? And some of us will read that manual inside out, most don't bother to even crack it open.

Secondly, Manuals become outdated the moment they are printed plus it delays the release of a product because manuals cannot be printed until the product is out of development/testing and basically ready for release. Manuals need to be 100% proof read, updated and tweaked right up to release and the size of the Live manual would be even bigger than ever. Then they have to be printed, binded and put in a box. All costs someone has to bear.

Third, Searchability & Up to Date-ness. I personally love reading the manuals of anything and prefer reading paper, but that is because I like to know everything about something. If I need to quickly find how something works, I use the PDF because it has search and is much quicker... in fact I only ever use the paper manual for casual reading, and that goes for almost any product. The next is obviously to update online/PDF manuals for grammar, new features, changes etc it takes a few minutes for the developers and users always get the latest available information.

Lastly, Cost. Having worked within a technical field doing support and working with our media department to develop training material and manuals I can tell you there is significant cost in those manuals. I have made the suggestion on this topic before "why not just print the manual yourself" and the answer is always "do you know how much paper/ink/cost that would be..." yeah no shit. Why deal with all that overhead when over half the users will not even open that manual and instead will go straight online for the answer.

Would you pay $35 for the manual if you could download it free online?

Yes, Jester. I would pay 35 dollars for the printed manual . In a heartbeat. I thought that was the purpose for the boxed set, to charge people extra for disks and manuals.....for those like me who actually plan to read it. Now, if they are going to remove the manual from the boxed set, then the price of the boxed set needs to be reduced. Cant still be selling it for the same 50 dollars after you removed the printed manual....right? USB sticks are inexpensive now. Yes,I agree, there is overhead for printing manuals, but the Live 9 manuals were NOT being provided to customers for free that I know of. To get a manual you had to pay extra for the boxed set. Maybe boxed sets just havent been selling well, and Ableton get left stuck with too many extra manuals? I dont know. If Ableton gets them printed in bulk though, you can get a decent quality manual for a decent price. It just cost too much to have someone print you just one single manual, lol.