I'm feeling a lot more upset about ending the relationship with new guy than I had anticipated.

After his birthday, I had made the decision to end it in person. We got together, and I chickened out. We had a really good talk, and I told him that I had been feeling insecure in the relationship. He said it was because he was working so much, and asked me to give him two weeks for his schedule to slow down. I agreed. This week was supposed to be the first week where he was slower, and we still barely talked during the week. As of yesterday morning, he hadn't made any plans with me yet for the weekend. So I texted him and asked if I could come over.

I went over to his house last night, and told him that I was still feeling insecure and the relationship wasn't working for me. I gave him some examples of things he's said that have made me feel insecure, and told him that I personally need to spend 2-3 days a week with my partner in order to feel secure. He was really upset about it. He said that he's crazy about me. That I'm attractive, smart, and fun. He said he understood, but asked for more time. He said that he hasn't been able to take care of his own needs because he's been working so hard. He said he found out yesterday that he doesn't have to work any weekends for the next month, and he was planning on asking me to spend the whole day Saturday with him. He said that I'm leaving just as his schedule was finally slowing down, and said how unfair it was.

I really struggled with not giving in and giving it more time, but I stayed firm. I feel like once you have the breakup talk, it's really hard to go back from that. And I'm trying to listen to my gut feeling more.

But I'm really doubting my gut feeling this morning. I got a lot of negative feedback on SI and from one in real life friend about him not being interested in me. What if my gut feeling was shaped by that negative feedback? What if I let what other people were saying affect how I felt about it? When we started out, I was fine with the amount of attention. I was fine with the way he jokes around a lot. And then when I was trying to figure out whether we were exclusive or not, I shared some of the things he said. And sharing those things caused people to tell me that he wasn't that interested in me. And then I started viewing his joking in a more negative way. He kept telling me last night that all the examples I was giving him was where he was joking with me.

I'm just doubting myself a lot this morning. I didn't sleep very well last night, and even cried a little.

It's the first time I've ever ended a relationship, unless you count the cheating ex. I don't really count that because the ex knew when he confessed that I was going to end things. New guy last night seemed surprised, so it was harder. I'm proud of myself that I stayed firm in our talk, but I'm also really doubting myself now. He said that he was looking forward to spending the weekend with me. I also found out last night that he left a toothbrush in my guest bathroom under the sink, which I had no idea about. I always had fun with him when I was actually with him. The problem was that I only saw him about 4 hours a week and we talked less than 20 minutes a day. I just needed more time than that.

I just feel very sad and upset today. And I'm scared that I ended it too soon, without giving him a chance after his work schedule got better.

30 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1502 | Registered: Jul 2013

Softcentre39166Member # 39166

Posted: 6:48 AM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

Classic hoovering!

You'd given him your boundaries. He decided not to step up. Only once you'd had the talk did he start to make more time for you....wanting you to go back on yourself, trying to make you doubt yourself. My STBXH is like this. He's 'nice' etc. It took me a long time to really grasp how much he had been manipulating me for years. But he had been and still tries to. The most effective manipulators are the smiling ones.

I'm in the minority, I didn't think all the horrible things about this guy that people said to you. I believe in the NB forum we treat dates like they are WS and ascribe all sorts of horrible motives to them that aren't true. Some guy called 5 minutes late? Get out the torches and pitchfork! He's a selfish git and block him!

Meh, to me he sounded young (read immature, but the immaturity of youth) and lazy. Not admirable, but not pitchfork-worthy either. I do feel like you got pushed to see things in a way that's not your natural bent, and by a goodly number of well meaning SI-ers who aren't even dating yet.

I don't think his response to you was hoovering. I think he was blindsided and defaulted to the "but ....!" The same defense mechanism we use when we're blindsided by a charge that we flat out didn't see. We start talking about our intent, and plans, as oppose to our actual behavior that generated the complaint.

Here's the caveat though. I'm a firm believer that if someone starts posting about a date issue on SI, that that indicates a problem. Even if not articulated well or understood well by the poster. For whatever reason, you liked this guy but you didn't. Or you didn't like that it got under your skin and promoted insecurities. Something. Something unnerved you. You wouldn't have brought it to SI otherwise. So just take it on faith that you liked this guy, but he wasn't the one.

(((lonelygirl)))

[This message edited by cayc at 7:05 AM, June 27th, 2014 (Friday)]

"I'm not afraid of storms, for I'm learning how to sail my ship." - Louisa May Alcott

Posts: 3446 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico

Lonelygirl10♀ 39850Member # 39850

Posted: 7:18 AM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

Here's the caveat though. I'm a firm believer that if someone starts posting about a date issue on SI, that that indicates a problem. Even if not articulated well or understood well by the poster. For whatever reason, you liked this guy but you didn't. Or you didn't like that it got under your skin and promoted insecurities. Something. Something unnerved you. You wouldn't have brought it to SI otherwise. So just take it on faith that you liked this guy, but he wasn't the one.

I did feel insecure, which is why I posted about it. I was trying to work through whether his actions were causing me to feel insecure, or whether my past was causing me to be insecure. And then all the negative responses about him not being interested in me I think made my insecurity worse.

I think he was a good guy who worked too many hours, and I'm kind of kicking myself this morning for not being more patient or understanding or whatever. When I left last night, he told me to be careful. He said that I'm special, and that I need to find someone who won't take advantage of that. He also told me to be careful in Paris, and that he was worried about me going alone. He hugged me. Told me to throw away the tooth brush he hid under my sink. I don't know why that tooth brush is important to me now.

He wasn't great at being overly attentive, but he seemed like an honest guy to me. I guess I'm worried that I let a good guy go because of my own insecurities. It's too late now anyway. It's impossible to come back from a breakup talk. But I just really worry that I made a mistake.

30 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1502 | Registered: Jul 2013

EvenKeel♀ 24210Member # 24210

Posted: 8:02 AM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

Good for you!

I think you did the right thing. I don't feel the issue is 100% the time but how he makes you feel. Meaning, some people are killer-busy at random times but still make sure they feel connected with their SO, etc.

So even though he might of been working a lot; he didn't make the attempt to make you feel like you were still connected and on his mind (ie barely talking during the week, etc).

Early in the R is when people are usually on their best'est behavior and attempts. If he isn't giving you what you need now....it won't get any better as life happens.

I know it is hard. Each relationship I have had since the D, I really grieve when it ends. Even if I know that person was not "the one".

I will cry on the way to work, in the shower, etc. I feel like such a baby but I know it is all tied to feelings/damage from my past and really not about that person.

Sidenote edit....I am always amazed how sometimes ppl's user names relate to their posts. Yours is a prime example...you don't wanna be a lonely person in this new relationship.

[This message edited by EvenKeel at 8:03 AM, June 27th (Friday)]

God didn't give you the strength to get back on your feet so that you can run back to the same things that knocked you down.

Posts: 2954 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Pa

phmh♀ 34146Member # 34146

Posted: 8:24 AM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

Even though you were not with him very long, doing the exercises in "Getting Past Your Breakup" might be helpful to you.

A good guy would not have made that comment about your appearance when you put in the effort to dress sexy for him. Mean-spirited "joking" is an example of verbal abuse and priming a victim.

My belief is that he was testing your boundaries (albeit most likely unintentionally) to see if you'd be a willing candidate to put up with emotional and verbal abuse.

I'm so sorry you're hurting, but I do believe that you'll find a great guy and be so happy you didn't settle for this one.

Me: BW, divorced, now fabulous and happy!

Married: 11 years, no kids

Character is destiny

Posts: 3871 | Registered: Dec 2011

Sad in AZ♀ 24239Member # 24239

Posted: 8:28 AM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

It's impossible to come back from a breakup talk.

Sorry, hon, but that's a piece of rubbish. You can always have a second chance. Please don't paint yourself into corners with rhetoric like this.

As cayc said, you had doubts from the beginning, so you brought them here. Now it's time for some self-searching. Are you easily swayed by others? Are you a people-pleaser?

This guy was probably not the right guy for you, but you enjoyed him. Learn from this and learn to trust your own gut.

May your 2015 be more FUCK YEAH! than fuck this

Posts: 21895 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY

InnerLight♀ 19946Member # 19946

Posted: 8:32 AM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

I'm sorry you feel bad, it's a terrible feeling to doubt yourself.

I never thought the guy was a bad person, but he didn't make you feel good even after you let him know what was troubling you. The beginning of a relationship that has a chance of success would make you feel happy.

Lots of people are super busy and can find a way to stay in touch if they really care, but this guy was just plain Inattentive.
He's going to have lots of busy times in the course of his life, and if his MO is to leave you hanging during These times it is going to feel worse and worse to you as a relationship develops.

Excusing his own rudeness and insensitivity as 'joking' is a bad sign that he just doesn't get how to treat a woman with respect and consideration.

This guy seems to defend himself by arguing you into doubting yourself. It's another sign that you did the right thing.

I do have experience dating, and dating successfully, and the key is to notice and honor how you feel with a man, and this man did not make you feel good. I know you had some fun, he was nice to drink and dine and sleep with, but as a whole he did not make you feel good. I don't think it was due to his schedule so much as his lack of consideration.

It's normal to miss the good parts, to have painful withdrawal feelings. Take good care of yourself. You did the right thing.

BS, 54 years
D-day 6-2-08
D after 20 years
The journey from Armageddon to Amazing Life happens one step at a time. Don't ever give up!

Posts: 6275 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California

FaithFool♀ 20150Member # 20150

Posted: 8:41 AM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

And then we had a weird conversation which left a bad taste in my mouth. I joked that I was going to bring over a sexy outfit for his birthday, but didn't. He said "if it was similar to your nightgown, you'd get an F." I asked "what does that mean?" He said "you know, like in grade school. You fail." I just stared at him, confused. He said I looked confused, and I asked "do you not think my nightgown looks good?" He laughed and said no. I said "well, I think it's sexy." And he said that it's definitely not sexy. It stung, and I felt super insecure.

Oh sweetie, don't second guess yourself on this one. He flippantly makes you feel insecure, then says he's only kidding if you get upset. That's a no-win situation for someone as sensitive as you.

He showed you who he is. Believe him.

DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 18530 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada

Lonelygirl10♀ 39850Member # 39850

Posted: 8:43 AM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

I started crying on the way to work. I really wasn't expecting to feel this sad and upset about it. We hadn't even gotten to the point of saying I love you yet, so I just didn't think it would affect me so much.

Sorry, hon, but that's a piece of rubbish. You can always have a second chance. Please don't paint yourself into corners with rhetoric like this.

I said that because I wasn't able to come back from it in the past. Once my ex told me he wanted to break up, I couldn't get over the question of "why am I with someone who wanted to end things with me." I tried to get over it, but couldn't.

Now it's time for some self-searching. Are you easily swayed by others? Are you a people-pleaser?

I know I definitely used to be. It was one of my biggest flaws. I've worked on it. I'm trying to be more of my own person, and not be as much of a people pleaser. Small things, just being honest about my likes and dislikes. I don't think I'm completely there yet though. I struggle constantly with trying to be "normal". I worry that I'm overreacting in relationships, and that I'm the one that needs to change. So I judge myself by how I think other people would feel in the same situation. And I need to stop that. But it's a very hard habit to break.

I think you did the right thing. I don't feel the issue is 100% the time but how he makes you feel. Meaning, some people are killer-busy at random times but still make sure they feel connected with their SO, etc.

So even though he might of been working a lot; he didn't make the attempt to make you feel like you were still connected and on his mind (ie barely talking during the week, etc).

Yeah, I see your point. I've gone through some busy times at work, but I still have contacted my SO. I remember when I was studying for the bar exam (otherwise known as the worst summer of my life), I still saw my SO on the weekends and we talked daily. I leaned on him for support, and I wanted to talk to him. With new guy, I just felt insecure. I felt like he wasn't thinking about me. He said last night that he was, but I didn't feel it.

I don't know why this is hitting me so hard. I wasn't extremely emotionally attached to him, but I'm feeling all the same things now that I did when I ended things with my ex.

30 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1502 | Registered: Jul 2013

FaithFool♀ 20150Member # 20150

Posted: 8:50 AM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

I don't know why this is hitting me so hard.

I don't know how long you were with your previous partner, but you haven't been out of that relationship for very long.

I've seen lots of folks feel this way after their first post-divorce breakup. It dredges up everything you didn't process the first time around I guess.

Be good to yourself this weekend. (((LG)))

DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 18530 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada

norabird♀ 42092Member # 42092

Posted: 8:53 AM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

((((LG))))

I think the fact that you were second-guessing yourself so much when you were with him and are still second-guessing yourself now is a sign that it will be great to spend some time alone and becoming secure in yourself.

I can't be the arbiter on whether he's a 'good guy' or not, which is such a changeable thing anyway as people do pass through stages in their emotional maturity/availability, but I do think he was not a good guy for you. And that's a perfectly good reason to end things. It doesn't mean he's evil or anything--it also doesn't mean you are the one in the wrong for having expectations. You are always so apologetic for needing things, whether it's needing to not be patient or needing to be made to feel secure. You have already communicated your needs, and he's already failed to step up. And now you are basing your doubts on what he says instead of what he has done. Actions always speak louder than words though and empty promises are easy to make. He may not mean for them to be empty but that doesn't change the impact on you when they don't materialize.

Learn to honor your needs and the second-guessing will fade.

Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4315 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC

cmego♀ 30346Member # 30346

Posted: 8:59 AM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

A good guy would not have made that comment about your appearance when you put in the effort to dress sexy for him. Mean-spirited "joking" is an example of verbal abuse and priming a victim

I also think ^^^^^ is a sign of blame shifting his behavior. It is a sign of immaturity or the lack of ability to be self reflective.

Someone told me, "You don't have to marry everyone you love" or something like that. You can both be nice people and the relationship, for whatever reason, doesn't work.

You were not happy. Bottom line. You can't quite put your finger on it, but you were not happy.

Just give it some time, cocoon, and let your emotions settle down. Generally the end of the first relationship post infidelity is the hardest one. It is OK to feel sad, it is the loss of a dream.

And then we had a weird conversation which left a bad taste in my mouth. I joked that I was going to bring over a sexy outfit for his birthday, but didn't. He said "if it was similar to your nightgown, you'd get an F." I asked "what does that mean?" He said "you know, like in grade school. You fail." I just stared at him, confused. He said I looked confused, and I asked "do you not think my nightgown looks good?" He laughed and said no. I said "well, I think it's sexy." And he said that it's definitely not sexy. It stung, and I felt super insecure. I wore that nightgown the first time we slept together, and I thought I looked nice in it. It's a short, spaghetti strap, very thin and see through type of thing. I feel very confident in it. I don't need compliments from him... but I also don't want negative statements like that. He took something that I felt very confident wearing and made me feel uncomfortable with it now.

So, this was a joke? If it was then this was a REALLLY, astronomically bad joke. Making someone feel insecure is not a joke.

Excusing his own rudeness and insensitivity as 'joking' is a bad sign that he just doesn't get how to treat a woman with respect and consideration.

Precisely. And I'd even venture to say that he *could* be laying the groundwork for an abusive situation. He says something rude which makes you feel small and insecure. You (rightfully) react to it, call him out on it. He excuses his hurtful words as "jokes" which makes you doubt yourself, your thought processes, and your gut. It's manipulation and you end up feeling like the crazy one, or like you're being some histrionic person. Or, you try to find some other reason that you became insecure: oh, I'm just insecure bc I was cheated on, OR oh, I'm just insecure bc I'm carrying that extra 20lbs (idk if you are and it's just an example)... which lets him off the hook. If he WAS just joking, I imagine he'd at the very least have followed up with a genuine apology for making you feel insecure and for being hurtful. Instead, he's just "joking" and why are you overreacting? He's not accepting responsibility for his actions here. And if even if I'm wrong and you stayed longer and it never became abusive, I know from experience it's hard to make it work with someone who doesn't take personal responsibility for things. Unfortunately, mine was abusive and a cheater too. Because in his estimation, I was wrong about everything, he felt justified to talk to me any ole way, and to have an A.

I'm not really touching the work schedule/lack of contact aspect of the problem. I think ^^ is the bigger issue.

(((Lonelygirl10)))

ETA:

A good guy would not have made that comment about your appearance when you put in the effort to dress sexy for him. Mean-spirited "joking" is an example of verbal abuse and priming a victim

phmh succinctly summed up my post above, I just hadn't read hers before I posted. These types of mean spirited jokes are insidious because they make you doubt yourself and lower your self-esteem. You could then become a target of abuse.

[This message edited by abbycadabby at 9:13 AM, June 27th (Friday)]

Posts: 1490 | Registered: Feb 2010

Lonelygirl10♀ 39850Member # 39850

Posted: 9:51 AM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

I think part of the reason why I'm doubting myself today is because the breakup was so easy. When I ended it with my ex, my ex got on the floor and was crying/begging. Showed up at my house. Made all these promises. I know what hoovering is very well. New guy didn't do any of that.

He told me that my needs were normal and reasonable, and that I was not too needy. Every time I apologized, he stopped me and told me that it was completely his fault. Everything that he said was explaining *why* he wasn't meeting my needs, but not trying to hoover me back in. He said that he couldn't make any promises that it would change, and that he wasn't going to lie to me in order to get me to stay with him. He said that his work schedule lightened up for the next month, but that the chances of it getting like that again in the future were pretty good. He said that when it gets like that, he can barely meet his own needs.

He did blame shift with the joking stuff, and I see that. He said that I should assume he's always joking. Which, I know that about him. And for some reason at the beginning, it didn't bother me. I just threw some jokes back at him, and we laughed a lot. But then as I started getting attached, I wanted him to be more sweet and less joking I guess. So I told him that, and he said that he's a joking person. So, blame shifting I guess but true. I knew that about him when I met him.

Even though I'm reeling about this today, I still think I've made huge progress since last year. It took me awhile, but I did finally listen to my gut. The old me would have stayed with him and just kept feeling insecure. I'm doing other things too to try to figure "me" out. Some silly things, like eating seafood for the first time ever and learning to kayak. Some big things, like going to Paris solo in 3 months. I feel stronger than I was last year, but still feel weak too.

30 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1502 | Registered: Jul 2013

Scared1♀ 14434Member # 14434

Posted: 10:09 AM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

(((Lonelygirl)))

I think you did the right thing, but I know how much it hurts - I've been there a few times! Take care and have fun in Paris

Posts: 54 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: UK

Red Sox Nation♂ 26358Member # 26358

Posted: 11:31 AM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

Sometimes a good thing isn't a good fit. He needs to find someone who is content with his schedule and communication style.

The only part I find troubling is that he talked about giving you an entire Saturday after you started the breakup talk. Put yourself in his shoes. If you are into someone and you're really busy and know that he's not happy about that. You know that you'll have a free Saturday coming up soon. I think you'd lead with that as soon as you could. Reading between the lines, I think he would have defined your relationship as more casual than you would. Which is probably at the crux of why it wasn't a good fit.

When I started dating again, I felt that I was ready when I was able to break up. Sure, there are always doubts (no one I broke up with blubbered and cried and tried to have some awful argument - mature people don't, it's not like a marriage ended). It's harder to break up with someone than it is to be broken up with. But it should give you confidence that you're not going to settle for less than you deserve.

When someone tells you who she is, listen; when someone shows you who she is, listen carefully.

Posts: 1921 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Midwest

Crescita♀ 32616Member # 32616

Posted: 11:34 AM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

(((Lonelygirl)))

Sometimes people just arenít right for each other. It doesnít matter how great or well intentioned both parties are, if they canít meet each otherís basic needs, it canít launch.

This relationship reminded me a lot of mine with my ex. I so desperately wanted to be the ďcoolĒ girlfriend, that I put understanding his needs above understanding my own. Itís great that you wanted to be forgiving, and flexible, and low maintenance for him, but what did that get you for yourself? There was a lot of second guessing, feeling low priority, and feeling insecure.

And once this pattern is established in a relationship, itís a hard thing to correct. He is used to you saying his needs were more important than yours, so flipping it around doesnít make sense. He already made it crystal clear that being busy, and tired, and spontaneous, was paramount, while youíve established that you can put a pin in needing to connect regularly and feel like a priority if he is busy or tired.

Itís okay to want things, to have expectations, and to voice your concerns. Love yourself, get comfortable meeting your needs first, and others will take your needs more seriously.

Hi LG, I've been following your story with this guy. I just want to chime in on a couple things. What he said about your nightie in a previous post really stuck in my mind, in a bad way, and it must have also with FF and abby. I would have been really hurt by that. I can't find a explanation in which what he said there was a good thing for a new relationship. It's not what I want, at least. Not at all.

The other thing. Like you, I'm working on listening to my gut. It's educational for me, from a distance, to see you doubting your gut:

What if my gut feeling was shaped by that negative feedback? What if I let what other people were saying affect how I felt about it?

I've done exactly this, and my reaction here is no. This second-guessing is exactly what it means to not listen to or trust your gut. Your gut is your gut. The reason it is your gut and not your brain or your heart is that it isn't so easily swayed by other inputs, like IRL people or SI or any other thing. It IS your deepest desires and needs, I think. At least it's always been true for me, and I'd have done well to listen to it and not second guess or twist its message.

Just my thoughts. Hang in there, this stuff is hard and it hurts. We're all here for you and listening, and you're helping all of us understand what we want, as well! So thank you. I just know there's somebody great out there for you.

Posts: 117 | Registered: Sep 2013

Lonelygirl10♀ 39850Member # 39850

Posted: 12:31 PM, June 27th (Friday), 2014

Reading between the lines, I think he would have defined your relationship as more casual than you would.

Yeah, that's what I told him last night during our talk. I told him that I felt like I was the best option for him on OLD at the time, but not that he was really crazy about me. He said I was wrong, and that he saw me as something serious. He looked sincere when he said it. But I know, words don't really mean much. He kept saying that I was completely wrong about how he felt about me, but also said that he could understand why I felt that way.

He also thanked me for doing it in person, and said that I'm a good person. He said that it's rare to find that nowadays. So, I'm glad that I followed my gut and did it in person instead of a text message.

He made a comment that he's never able to meet girls' needs, and that his job takes away everything good from him. So I'm guessing that I'm not the first person that has had this problem.

I've done exactly this, and my reaction here is no. This second-guessing is exactly what it means to not listen to or trust your gut. Your gut is your gut. The reason it is your gut and not your brain or your heart is that it isn't so easily swayed by other inputs, like IRL people or SI or any other thing. It IS your deepest desires and needs, I think. At least it's always been true for me, and I'd have done well to listen to it and not second guess or twist its message.

Thank you for this. And I know you're right. I ignored my gut in the past, and I regretted it. This time I tried to listen to it more. I had excuses for everything in my head, but something just continued to feel off. On Wednesday, I described it to a friend as just an "icky" feeling. I couldn't really place what was causing the feeling, but it was there.

I'm going to buy some wine tonight, and just let myself feel lonely and sad.