Ever like a show but...

I love M*A*S*H (never mind that it ended two years before I was born) but Hawkeye is one of my least favorite characters. He used to be my favorite, but the more I've watched the show, I've come to realize that I like Klinger, Potter, Winchester, Radar, and Mulcahy a lot more. I guess eleven years' worth of episodes is just too much Hawkeye for me.

Ooh, now I'm curious. I never cared at all for 7th Heaven - too treacly at best, too preachy at worst - but really liked Joan of Arcadia (well, the first season is all I've seen). I've actually been rewatching it, too.

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I focused on JoA, using a single episode as an example of my thesis (how the episode's lesson is taught to the characters and viewers), then did the comparison. Seventh Heaven did not fare well, more as the show went on then in its early years. Wonder Years compared better. I said both of these basically straight out stated the lesson while JoA did more showing it than stating it. It wasn't a bad paper.

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Makes sense, yeah. One of the things I like about JoA, tended to be more show than tell - plus some ambiguity and snark.

Buffy The Vampire Slayer. I could take everybody except "Whiny CryBuffy."

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I had the same thing with New Galactica and "Whiny CryKara". I REFUSE to call her Starbuck. That's Dirk Benedict, thank you.

Of course, I hated most of the characters on New Galactica, but that damn Kara was the absolute worst.

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You liked the show while hating most of the characters? That's impressive.

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Well, it's probably more accurate to say that I liked aspects of the show. The truth of the matter is, that if it hadn't been a remake of a show I liked as a kid (and still do), I probably never would have watched it at all.

And let's be honest, not one of those characters were exactly likeable now, were they?

I had the same thing with New Galactica and "Whiny CryKara". I REFUSE to call her Starbuck. That's Dirk Benedict, thank you.

Of course, I hated most of the characters on New Galactica, but that damn Kara was the absolute worst.

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You liked the show while hating most of the characters? That's impressive.

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Well, it's probably more accurate to say that I liked aspects of the show. The truth of the matter is, that if it hadn't been a remake of a show I liked as a kid (and still do), I probably never would have watched it at all.

And let's be honest, not one of those characters were exactly likeable now, were they?

Overall, I like "The Mentalist," but I can't stand how Lisbon is written. She's written as a total idiot most of the time. I feel bad for the actress.

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Well she's not quite as bad as she used to be, she does get meatier roles and at least she isn't portrayed as being as (likeably) dumb as Rigsby. To be honest whenever another agency or other cops are involved suddenly Lisbon and co look like rocket scientists...much as I love the show I would like more episodes where Lisbon or one of the others cracks the case.

I can't say I loved the show but hated the main character, but I wasn't very fond of Jack for most of Lost's run, though I started liking him better over time. The first time I liked him was when he was Drunk Bearded Jack in the season 3 finale.

I don't "love" True Blood, but I did watch it and mostly enjoyed it (well, maybe not season 2) although I haven't bothered to see season 4 yet, but I probably will once I got the time. However, I find Sookie rather boring - I don't hate her or anything, but she's just not interesting, particularly with her relationship with Bill. Fortunately, most of the other characters are more interesting, like Lafayette, Jessica, Tara, Russell Edgington, Jason's girlfriend Amy in season 1, Sam once he stopped obsessing over Sookie, etc.

Buffy The Vampire Slayer. I could take everybody except "Whiny CryBuffy."

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"Whiny"? Seriously? How on Earth was she "whiny"? Because she wasn't all smiley and happy after she died twice by the age of 20, risked her life every night to save people (and never got anything for that, unlike her Watcher who was at least paid), had to sacrifice people she loved, when her mother died, when her friends got murdered because of their connection to her, etc., all the while she continued to fight and save everyone year after year?

I guess it's just an example of points 4 and 5 in this old list posted once by someone on Livejournal on the topic of the treatment of female characters in fandoms:

1) Any female character who is as capable and unusually talented as the male characters is a Mary Sue.

2) Any female character who is not as capable and unusually talented as the male characters is weak and uninteresting.

3) Any female character who develops new skills over time is a Mary Sue, no matter how she learned those skills or how strong her motivation to do so.

4) Any female character who has bad things happen to her is just trying to be the center of attention.

5) If she ever complains about those things, she's also whiny.

6) Any female character who pursues a male character who initially rejects her is either predatory or pathetic. (Any male character who pursues a female character who initially rejects him is either charming or a tragic woobie.)

7) Any female character who rejects a male character who is beloved by fans is cruel and heartless, whether or not she has any interest in him herself.

8) Any female character who lacks serious character flaws is too unrealistic to be interesting.

9) Any female character who has serious character flaws is unlikable because of them, even if beloved male characters have the same or equivalent flaws.

10) However, the majority of criticisms of her will ignore those flaws entirely in favor of calling her a slut or a whore.

11) Any female character who actually has multiple relationships in canon is a slut or a whore.

12) It's infinitely more important whether a female character is a slut or a whore than whether she commits actual crimes or kills people.

DevilEyes, I dunno Buffy is pretty much one of the few female characters I find actively annoying, I think it's less about gender than SMG's portrayal of her.

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I don't have a problem with people being annoyed by characters I love, people have different tastes. It's when they characterize them inaccurately, like calling Buffy "whiny" which makes no sense. (Unless you're Cordelia desperately trying to convince herself that she's superior to Buffy - which is where the original "WhinyCryBuffy" comes from - despite the fact that she spent most of her time on BtS having her ass saved by Buffy while complaining - whining, you may say - that her life had become so awful since Buffy moved to town.) When you call "whiny" I would expect it to be someone who has no real problems in their life and nothing really bad happened to them, but they keep complaining about just about anything.

As for the way that gender comes into it, well, I've never seen any of the angsty male heroes who had bad things happen to them called "whiny". Oh look that Whiny Cry Sisko, his wife got killed, boo hoo! Look at that Odo with his identity issues, what a whiner! That whiny Batman, still hung up on his parents' death!

As for the way that gender comes into it, well, I've never seen any of the angsty male heroes who had bad things happen to them called "whiny". Oh look that Whiny Cry Sisko, his wife got killed, boo hoo! Look at that Odo with his identity issues, what a whiner! That whiny Batman, still hung up on his parents' death!

As for the way that gender comes into it, well, I've never seen any of the angsty male heroes who had bad things happen to them called "whiny". Oh look that Whiny Cry Sisko, his wife got killed, boo hoo! Look at that Odo with his identity issues, what a whiner! That whiny Batman, still hung up on his parents' death!