While I think WR is a need due to a lack of depth behind CJ and Burleson, I'd be very disappointed if the Lions selected one in the 1st round. We've tried that about a thousand times already and it hasn't worked out very well.

_________________

February 6th, 2011, 10:28 am

ZAndrews81

Stadium Announcer

Joined: January 28th, 2011, 2:15 amPosts: 75

Re: Julio Jones

I think you have to consider who was doing the picking. Rogers got 2 major injuries early on then had drug issues. Roy turned out good in my opinion because what we got in return for him. Mike Williams is finally coming on but I think picking a guy out of football for a year is not good unless he has a great work ethic. Calvin was a great pick. There is no arguing that we have bigger needs than wr however I think we need to stick to the plan bpa. My top 13 would probably be fairley bowers green Amukamara miller Peterson dareus Kerrigan jones LeShore Quinn pouncey Costanzo. This could and will change through combine and interviews but I think we take the highest rated player on this list. I know fairley and a few others are top 5 locks but never know. And I'll probably hear about prince over Peterson but I think he will be better.

February 7th, 2011, 1:55 am

conversion02

RIP Killer

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pmPosts: 10457Location: Sycamore, IL

Re: Julio Jones

ZAndrews81 wrote:

And I'll probably hear about prince over Peterson but I think he will be better.

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10019Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Julio Jones

If Millen had known what he was doing, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The fact that the Lions have burned four picks on WRs in the first round in a decade really isn't that much of a factor. If CJ hadn't panned out, then I'd say the Lions should jump at the chance to get Julio Jones. If we hadn't signed Burleson, or if he had performed like a Bill Schroeder, then I'd say it's understandable. The fact is, Mayhew got it right when he said they'll take BPA with common sense.

It's not about getting the best talent, or best football player....it's about getting the best player with football talent FOR THE TEAM. You have to look at the roster and determine which player, and which position, will best improve the team. If by some chance Marcell Dareus falls to the 13th pick, do we take him? He'll be the best talent on the board, but do we burn another pick on a DT when we have three of starting caliber already on the roster?

I wouldn't be terribly upset if the Lions took Julio Jones. I would, however, be upset with them if they did it in the same fashion as when they took Mike Williams. Why? Because when the Lions selected Mike Williams, they did not even field any trade offers. Millen said that no team was interested, but that was a flat out lie. When the Redskins took Carlos Rogers and BMW was still available, the Lions pick was brought up almost immediately. They used the least amount of time to make their pick than any other team in that first round. They didn't even CONSIDER trading that pick. And that is what I don't want to see the Lions do EVER again. As I said, there are teams picking after the Lions that would probably love to have JJ on their roster, and would put together a reasonable package of picks to get him. With St. Louis sitting right behind us, and needing a true number one receiver, the Lions would be sure to get offers. Number two or number three receivers can be had in later rounds. Mayhew and Schwartz, I believe, would make the trade down before picking Jones in round one.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

February 7th, 2011, 10:23 am

Blueskies

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 2836

Re: Julio Jones

The thing is, m2k, your interpretation of "BPA with common sense" is really just "draft need".

To go off your example, Marcell Dareus. If he's there, and the Lions scouts really like him, then they should take him. Yes, DT is far from a need, but you are limiting your thought process. With a combo of Dareus and Suh, you could trade SLH and Corey Williams away. With Williams credentials in a 4-3 re-established, I'm sure he'd fetch a decent return, and SLH would at least bring back the 4th round pick spent on him in the first place.

The common sense caveat is there, but your interpretation is too broad. It means they don't use all of their picks on the same position, even if they happen to coincidentally be BPA when the Lions are selecting, or draft Ryan Mallet at #13.

But overall, I think your original assessment is correct: should Julio Jones be there at 13, I think the Lions will find willing trade partners and would make that move.

February 7th, 2011, 10:41 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10019Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Julio Jones

Blueskies wrote:

The thing is, m2k, your interpretation of "BPA with common sense" is really just "draft need".

Not really. For instance, I don't consider DE a need. But if the Lions were to use that pick on that position, I wouldn't be upset. There's a difference between upgrading talent and stockpiling talent. And especially in the case of wide receivers, the talent pool tends to run deeper than most positions. Teams always find talented receivers in the middle rounds to be their second or slot receivers. I am in favor of us getting another WR in this coming draft, but I think doing it in the first round would be questionable. Mostly because I really don't think Julio Jones is that much more talented than some of the other receivers that will be available later in the draft. If CJ were in a contract year, and we knew he'd be likely to leave, I'd say drafting Jones would make sense. But with Burleson signed for another four years, and CJ still down for two more, no need to go there with that pick. DE, however, though not an immediate need, is something of a question mark because of Avril not being under contract, McBride being a free agent, and KVB coming back from injury. If the CBA gets taken care of, and the Lions were assured of having Avril for 2011 as a RFA or signed long term, I'd say DE becomes less of a focus. Like I said, I don't consider the position a need, but I wouldn't ignore a DE that falls to the Lions at #13 either.

I understand the idea about taking Dareus and trading either Williams or Hill (I wouldn't trade both, that would be foolish and leave us without a rotation). However, I think that's a ridiculous notion in the fact that with Williams and Hill, you have known commodities in hand. With Dareus, regardless of how the scouts feel, you have an unknown. I realize it's like that with any draft pick, but that's precisely why you have to mix need in to determine the best player for the team. Having four or five really talented DTs is great, but only if you have talent in all the other spots as well. By the time the Lions would know, for sure, that Dareus could come close to or exceed the expectations on him, it would be basically the start of pre-season. By that time, to trade away Corey or SLH, teams are not likely to be willing to trade away a talented player of their own at LB or CB or whatever other need we have.

Now, I know what you and others might say..."better to take a player you feel very strongly about becoming a quality NFL player, than to take a player with a question mark or two, and waste the pick"...and you'd be right. But trading down creates the same issue. The Lions would be venturing back into the unknown by trading down....which player will fall to us? will he pan out? was the extra pick or picks worth the deal?

In the case of positions where we have starters established and under contract for more than just a year, I think we have to consider other areas of need as a component, but not as the determining factor, of what player to take. You still want to make sure you get value with the pick, and land some talent. Some folks are in favor of taking Mark Ingram with the #13. I am not. Not because I think we're loaded at running back, but because I just don't think he's going to be a tremendous NFL back. If I thought he was going to be another Adrian Peterson or Barry Sanders or whoever, I'd say absolutely, pick him. Need him? Not really. But when you can upgrade by that much, you do it. I just don't think Julio is that great of an upgrade over Burleson, and I don't think Dareus would be that great of an upgrade over Corey or SLH.

But, you and I agree that if Jones, or Dareus, or whomever that the Lions don't really NEED fall to the Lions, they're likely to listen to offers. If they do and nobody is willing to meet demands, take him. I could live with that, particularly if the Lions braintrust feel the guy is just too good to pass over. If they feel that strongly about the player, despite my feelings, I'll trust them on that. Lord knows I've been wrong about players in the past.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

February 7th, 2011, 12:27 pm

inheritedlionsfan

Team MVP

Joined: January 13th, 2006, 4:18 amPosts: 3347Location: Maryland

Re: Julio Jones

Unless they fall in love with one of the QBs there's no way Jones gets past the Redskins. Santana Moss is a free agent and is getting up there in years. I think he'll re-sign but IDK how much he has left in the tank. Armstrong stepped up but he isn't a #1 WR.

After watching Titus Young in the Senior Bowl I think he would be a solid second round pick.

_________________Proud member of the Contract Extension for Schwartz Fan Club.

February 7th, 2011, 9:52 pm

ZAndrews81

Stadium Announcer

Joined: January 28th, 2011, 2:15 amPosts: 75

Re: Julio Jones

I would be really happy if he redskins took jones. I said before I like him and I think that he will be a great player but the more offensive players that go off the board in the top 12 the more talent we are left with on the other side of the ball. I would be happy with a jones pick but I would be ecstatic over an Amukamara/Von miller pick. I think we need to really hope these qbs start to improve their draft status with 8 of the top 12 teams needing quarterbacks. I could see anywhere from 0-4 going in the first round. As of now I think that number is leaning more towards the low end but should 3 qbs,2 wr,1 ol,2dt go in the top 12 that would leave either bowers Quinn miller Amukamara or Peterson on the board when we pick. Now that maybe wishful thinking on my part but certainly possible.

February 8th, 2011, 1:48 am

kdsberman

Team MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3419Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Julio Jones

ZAndrews81 wrote:

I would be really happy if he redskins took jones. I said before I like him and I think that he will be a great player but the more offensive players that go off the board in the top 12 the more talent we are left with on the other side of the ball. I would be happy with a jones pick but I would be ecstatic over an Amukamara/Von miller pick. I think we need to really hope these qbs start to improve their draft status with 8 of the top 12 teams needing quarterbacks. I could see anywhere from 0-4 going in the first round. As of now I think that number is leaning more towards the low end but should 3 qbs,2 wr,1 ol,2dt go in the top 12 that would leave either bowers Quinn miller Amukamara or Peterson on the board when we pick. Now that maybe wishful thinking on my part but certainly possible.

Though I wish that would come true, there is almost no chance Bowers and Peterson fall that low, and very unlikely that any of the others do either. And if they do, its just our luck someone would trade up in front of us and steal em' away anyway.

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10019Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Julio Jones

I could see Quinn possibly falling to us at 13 if he doesn't interview well at the combines. He needs to answer questions about his involvement with the UNC scandal. Miller has an outside shot of falling. Peterson, Bowers and Amukamara? Not a shot of falling unless they injure themselves during workouts....and even then its gonna have to be a serious injury.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

February 8th, 2011, 8:02 pm

liontrax

3rd Round Selection

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pmPosts: 1112Location: Wolverine, Mi.

Re: Julio Jones

m2karateman wrote:

I could see Quinn possibly falling to us at 13 if he doesn't interview well at the combines. He needs to answer questions about his involvement with the UNC scandal. Miller has an outside shot of falling. Peterson, Bowers and Amukamara? Not a shot of falling unless they injure themselves during workouts....and even then its gonna have to be a serious injury.

Agree with your assessment. Lions will be looking at that 2nd tier of players. I don't see any of the so-called top ten slipping through, unless there is an early run on a specific position, or an unexpected reach for a player. Lets hope the QB's and OT's look great in pre-draft workouts and change the landscape of the early 1st round.

February 9th, 2011, 11:28 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10019Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Julio Jones

liontrax wrote:

m2karateman wrote:

I could see Quinn possibly falling to us at 13 if he doesn't interview well at the combines. He needs to answer questions about his involvement with the UNC scandal. Miller has an outside shot of falling. Peterson, Bowers and Amukamara? Not a shot of falling unless they injure themselves during workouts....and even then its gonna have to be a serious injury.

Agree with your assessment. Lions will be looking at that 2nd tier of players. I don't see any of the so-called top ten slipping through, unless there is an early run on a specific position, or an unexpected reach for a player. Lets hope the QB's and OT's look great in pre-draft workouts and change the landscape of the early 1st round.

One of the players that might creep into the top ten could be Tyron Smith, the LT out of USC. The knock on him is that he's not big enough at 285, but if he weighs in at the Combines at 305 or so, his stock could rise significantly with good workouts. Remember, at this time two years ago Jason Smith was considered a marginal first rounder, more second rounder. He shot up the charts after the Combines and solid pro day workouts. As it turns out, second round was too high for him, but that's how things go. If Cam Newton and Jake Locker put on impressive workouts, they could rise considerably as well too. Right now I have Newton going beyond our pick in the first, and Locker not being picked until round two.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

February 9th, 2011, 5:06 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: Julio Jones

As you can tell by my article I'm in favor of taking Jones if available. I think the Lions need to continue to add talent and I would prefer they take a BPA approach to the draft.

I know a lot can still change between now and the draft but as I put together my big board and then estimate who will be taken with the top 12 picks one name continues to be my highest ranked player at 13 - Julio Jones.

I'd love for the Lions to be able to trade out of this pick if that does occur, with the Rams one spot behind them you would think someone might want to jump up to grab Jones - the question is how badly.

Basically our biggest needs are:

CB - after PP and Prince I don't see #13 valueLB - after Von Miller I don't see #13 valueOL - I don't see any #13 value in the draft

So for me it comes down to if one of the DE's slip, otherwise I have Jones as my highest ranked player when the Lions select.