Honda CR-V AC Compressor Problems

Comments

Being in the tool business for almost 20 years, Chicom was a brand I had never heard of so I "googled" it and found nothing?

Coming through Amazon at that price I'm guessing it is Chinese made and maybe a "universal" unit that fits other cars too?

Same brand name for the vacuum pump and coming from Harbor Freight at that price it has to be Chinese made.

For a piece of equipment that will be seldom used, the Chinese stuff can get the job done.

I disagree with you about the cooling part. a lot of cars have front licence plates that partically block air flow to the condensors and I just don't see heat being a contributing factor but I guess I could be wrong.

The delaerships fear comebacks and unhappy customers so thier approach is to not take any chances of contamination so they just replace EVERYTHING.

Yes, a failed A/C compressor ***can*** shoot off metal particles that ***can*** cause problems if not caught and it isn't really possible to flush everything out.

Thanks to everyone posting their experiences to the board. I'll add my 2¢ worth since it will help build a database of information for this problem.My 2003 CR-V (105,000 miles) air conditioning failed last week during a 100-degree heatwave in Virginia. I haven't had it to a shop yet, but based on the symptoms and descriptions here, I assume the compressor imploded. I have spoken to service departments at five area Honda dealers, and I have gotten five fixes with a range of prices:Dealer 1&#150;usually replaces only the compressor and the filter in the receiver/dryer because "the filter catches all the contaminants". Estimate of $1,500.Dealer 2&#150;replaces the entire system because all components are contaminated. Estimate of $3,700.Dealer 3&#150;replaces everything but the evaporator in the passenger side. Estimate of $2,500.Dealer 4&#150;replaces everything including the evaporator, but not the hoses. Estimate $2,200.Dealer 5&#150;replaces the entire system. Estimate of $3800.All of these dealers acknowledge this is a common repair, yet they don't agree on the proper repair, despite Honda's own Service Bulletin guidelines. And the two that replace the entire system seem to be significantly overcharging for the repair. The MSRP from Honda for all of the parts in the A/C system including Service Kit C, Clutch Set and Coil Set is about $2,000. Shopping online, I found I can purchase those same components from a Honda dealer for about $1400. That means that in addition to charging a sizeable markup on the parts, they are charging $1,700-1,800 for labor and refrigerant. The Service Bulletin calls for 5.8 hours repair time. One shop told me it's actually a 10-hour job, while another shop said the repair can be done in one day.I have called and written to American Honda, and have been told that they cannot defray any costs because of the vehicle mileage. Yet I have seen posts here where they have offered assistance to owners with vehicles as high as 116,000 miles.There seems to be no rhyme or reason to this problem other than Honda has a defect issue with the CR-V A/C system, refuses to publicly acknowledge it and is screwing its long-time customers and long-term reputation. I really don't know what to do next.

Thanks. Your experience in the tool business makes your compliment even more important to me. And believe me, I'm the kind of guy who can be VERY frank.

A couple of points. Sorry for the confusion on the tool name but you figured it out...Chinese Communist. Sorry!

As far as the paranoia about air flow through the front, I take my experience from 65-67 Chevy Corvettes with the big block (BB) engines, 396 or 427 cubic inch. When the first Vette BB-engined cars came off the line Chevy got a LOT of complaints about the cars overheating even though they beefed up the radiators. The factory applied a number of fixes and one of them was a new front license plate holder that moved the plate out from the front center (even though it was in low in the air stream) to 'way over on the driver's side. That and extra foam insulation to make sure all of the air pulled in from the fan went through the radiator and the attached shroud solved the BB overheating problems for that model run.

Unfortunately, the General launced a new body for '68 and kep the same frame/drive train which caused the problem to reapper again. They solved those problems during the first year but I've learned the hard way that you need to get ALL of the air ALL of the time over ALL of the coolers to ensure that you have no problems with overheating.

As I noted earlier, I did a belt-and-suspenders fix by adding that 10" pusher fan and with that puppy on, in 90* weather, I can comfortable put my hand on the condenser wheras the it was a bit too hot with just the factory setup. I'm sure it will be fine without the pusher because the engineers factored all of this in their original design. They just didn't count on the effect of the ravages of time.

I think much of the reason for all of the unhappiness is the COST of fixing it.

I know I'm a dinosaur but back when I ran a shop, we actually fixed things. We overhauled compressors and freon didn't cost an arm and a leg like it does today.

We actually fixed some things for free if you can believe that and we would try to save our customers money if it was an older car or money was tight.

In the example someone stated above, one dealer wanted 1500.00 to fix it and seemed to have no fears that anything more would be necessary.

The other places wanted to replace the entire system just "in case".

The trouble is, some people are quick to blame problems on the shop that tried to save them money. They do the 1500.00 repair and sure enough, a loose piece of metal wrecks something and back comes an unhappy customer demanding the shop fix it for free. And they do. From that point forward, having learned an expensive and bitter lesson, they take a hard stance and refuse to do the job unless they fix everything!

Shop labor is 100.00 per hour and more and genuine replacement parts are very expensive. I was in California last month and one of the xenon headlights in my buddy's Mercedes burnt out. we pulled into the Mercedes dealer and waited two hours and he paid 320.00 parts and labor! for a lousy headlight!

Labor was 160.00/hr!

I don't blame people for being unhappy but things do break given enough time and miles.

And, I remember those Corvettes. Especially if they had A/C they would overheat in traffic situations.

While I did/will be getting assistance, I am the guy with the 116K mile CRV, I still question the amount of the assistance: Are they doing a complete a/c replace worth $3K, or a less fix that in the end, only cuts me a deal on the parts? Not sure as I was just given a "cap" for my out of pocket, which I was satisified with (otherwise I would be driving a new car today). In any event, we have bought nothing but honda's since 1996 with the most recent being a 2008 Pilot. We also had issues with our 2000 Ody, so alot may have to do with the customer and past buying history...I realize it shouldn't be that way, but suspect it does have something to do with it. Parts are in on Wednesday and its going in Thursday.

"Really? On my '02, it turned off the light and the compressor.... Did you close your eyes and click your heels together, three times?"

Are you manually turning off the compressor?

Take a look at the post following the instructions you linked:

"One thing I might add.. after disabling the function, the A/C will still come on, each time you turn it to the defrost setting.. The difference will be: you can turn the A/C off by pushing the A/C button. Something you couldn't do before. "

Thanks for the follow-up. I can't say I've only bought Hondas, but my other primary vehicle is a 1997 Civic bought new in 1996. It has 275,000 miles and I just replaced the compressor (not the whole system) this summer. The only other costs have been routine maintenance. Before the Civic, I had a 1985 Prelude with 215,000 miles when I sold it, and the A/C still worked on that one too.The problem with the CR-V A/C is that it has a history of failing prematurely, relative not only to other Honda vehicles, but to other brands as well. And that is what is so maddening about this repair expense.

ARRGHHH! I just posted a long response to old_red and my computer crashed. So I'll keep it short.

FWIW, I think you should skip the dealers and go to a good local shop that you trust AND is willing to work with you AND you're not real anxious to get the car back right away.

From what I've read, the problems tend to be "upfront" in the system rather than under the dash with the evaporator. All I know is what I read. The reason the dealers just replace everything is that they are certain that you won't come back and it's better to have a customer upset b/c of cost and a fixed car than a broken car that is bleeding a customer to death. It just makes sense.

Since you have to pull the front bumper to anything serious to the AC system, might as well pay your guy to pull that and check the easy stuff (after he checks the AC system with the procedure outlined by Honda which involves only the knobs in the center of the console.)

I assume that there are no leaks evident. If everything checks out OK, he first checks the compressor clutch by putting 12v directly to the clutch wire. If it does not engage, replace the pump. If the pump is bad, then it's easy to simply check the interior of the AC lines for bits of debris (if your compressor made a "noise" just before it died, then it loaded your AC system with shrapnel and you must replace everything back to the evaporator under the dash - $$$$$). My compressor just died so I was lucky. I'm not convinced that compressor explode as often as people say they do.

If the compressor looks OK inside and the lines look OK, then have him check the condenser in front of the radiator in the front. If that's clogged as mine was, then you luck out as I did. If not, spend $40 to replace the drier dessicant as a precaution.

I think it all comes down to whether you want to hang on to the car for as long a period of time as justifies your expenditure. A car with a non functioning AC has to worth a LOT less than otherwise. Tough call.

You know, I thought about the quality of that ChiCom compressor when I was making my purchase. What I do know is that I have a Taiwanese made AC compressor that is branded as a Sanden. Sanden is one of the most popular aftermarket Japanese AC compressors for the hot rod crowd. I'm not married to Japanese quality but at least I've had experience with other countries of origin. My Sanden compressor has worked perfectly for over five years in my big block vette.

And let's say I'm wrong about the ChiCom unit and it fries in two years. If I still have the car and didn't grenade the compressor, then I buy another one and this time it takes me two hours to flip out the old for the new. Since I don't pay for labor, it just doesn't matter in this world of disposable items. You raise a good point about the cost of labor. I don't mind at all that someone makes a living but why do they have to make ALL of their boat payments off of just ME?

I suppose I'm rationalizing here and I risk going off topic but I recently learned that our refrigerator uses R134a as a refrigerant so that my tools will work on our SubZero. TALK ABOUT A rip off. I had no choice of fridges, this beast came with the house. The temp kept going up and I finally called the authorized repairman who replaced the condenser under warranty. I carefully watched him. His skill set consists of soldering and getting factory parts at cost. I scoped out his tools. He used a 25 micron vacuum pump (what I bought at Harbor Freight) PLUS he never recovered the old refrigerant. He used a mannometer wheras I use gauges. His refrigerant tank was labeled the same as that for the cars.

He charged me $300 for his travel time and refrigerant under warranty. He said the bill, out of warranty, is almost $2,000.

My issue is that my crv is 7 years old and this is the 3rd time the a/c has gone out starting year 2 then year 4 and again this year. There is obviously an issue with the components for the a/c not the age of the vehile or the miles.

Thanks for the good info Vinnie. I wish I had seen the long version. I have checked with several independent shops, and the consensus is about $1,500 for a compressor, condenser and expansion valve. I don't think that is going to do it because I heard a terrible metallic grinding noise just before losing cold air. I had just started the vehicle in the driveway when it happened. So I'm assuming the shrapnel scenario.

Based on your earlier post, I've even considered doing this job myself. I've done a fair amount of mechanic'ing on my '66 Mustang, but a 2003 Honda is a whole other animal. I had planned to keep the CR-V indefinitely, but after this, I don't know.

My 02 CR-V's (@ 102,000 miles) a/c stopped working a few weeks ago, I thought I just needed a freon refill as I do not remember any loud noises, just a hiss and no more cold air, then this weekend I started having trouble keeping my car from stalling out when I was in idle, I also noticed a burning rubber smell, no warning lights came home, I managed to get home and when I opened the hood I was surprised to see the serpentine belt broken right in half. I took it in today and was told the clutch and pulley on the a/c compressor was broken and that caused the serpentine belt to break and he was unable to fix it and suggested a radiator and a/c specialist that quoted me 950 to fix it. My dad is helping me out and having his mechanic look at it to see what can be done, I can live without a/c in my car but it's my impression that this issue is bigger for most people than just having a/c or not, am I right or could there be something else wrong with my car? Thanks!

Have you heard back from NHTSA? I am on my 3rd ac unit and Honda is not willing to do anything due to high miles on the car. I travel for my job and need a dependable car with AC which is why I bought the Honda.

you sound JUST like the homers who crapped all over the first hondas and datsuns that reached our shores when Roger Smith ordered GM to NOT include import sales unts in the market forecasts presented to him

Based on my SUBSTANTIAL experience of buying Chicom tools (I was an early adopter of buying stuff from Harbor Freight), I can say that my own personal experience is that the tools are of perfect quality for me..perhaps not for a professional mechanic, but certainly good enough to build a 454 zz440 and a blown 355 small block chevy that will leave your rice rockets in the DISTANT rear view mirror

As far as ChiCom car components, I admit that that they've had their share of problems which is why I've been very careful about buying any aftermarket parts. I can't say that I've had any problems attributable to ChiCom manufactures products. That includes a bunch of Heier refrigerators/freezers that we bought at WalMart. What data do you have that demonstrates that Chicom components are inferior to any other country of origin?

Geez, you must be REALLY upset that Geely bought Volvo which gives the Chicoms what they wanted the most - US distribution. For your health, I certainly hope that you don't have to change your non de plume to isellgeeely

Please relax, it's all a global village.

And I am VERY comfortable that all my work went into installing a Chinese air compressor and not to some fat cat mega car dealer so that he make make his next boat payment.

Maybe you should up the dose of antihypertensive that you're on or take a Vicodin or something. Oooops, now that I think of it, that will only make you more upset because the vast majority of drug raw materials come from India or China. And THAT is backed up by data, not personal opinion.

It's just that in my many years in the tool business, I saw a lot of Chinese junk come to our shores. I watched jaws break on cheap Chinese vises and floor jacks blow their seals quickly. I saw the chrome peel on their wrenches and saw their brittle sockets break under load.

Having said that....

I am also open to the reality that things CAN change and that quailty CAN improve.

Korean cars are a good example of that.

You'll have to remember that I was in a business that dealt strictly with the pros who demand top quality tools that hold up. Thses guys won't even buy Craftsman tools for the most part.

Would I buy a Harbor Freight electric drill that I would probably use four times a year? You bet!

Would I get under a car supported by Chinese jack stands? Um...no.

And, no, I'm not upset that the Chinese bought Volvo. I doubt if they could make them any more troublesome than they already are.

Intuitively, I think you are absolutely correct. It wouldn't be the first time that me as a lone wolf has a different opinion than a bunch of very qualified MEs who do this sort of stuff for a living.

What I think we can all agree on is the premise that moving as much air as possible over a radiator device is a good idea for the device dissipating heat into that radiator. That being said, the factory, I'm sure, designs their systems to take into account a wide variety of operating conditions and since they sell CR-Vs for people who live in the desert, that likley beats any situation that I have in the North East.

All I know is what I've seen empirically with my car and cars that I've been asked to look at. Moving the front plate out of the air path resulted in a subjective increase in AC productivity. This is a well know fact which, as I said, dates back at least to the introduction of high performance engines in the '60s. I'm left with speculation about the root cause of failure. I can't imagine that the compressor itself caused the problem because I found no shrapnel; the clutch failed It is entirely possible that the compressor problem and condenser problem occured simultaneously due to chance.

As I said, I over engineer my solutions. I added a 10" pusher and that proves my point. I am now content in my fantasy world of moving LOTS of air over the radiators.

I don't have much energy to argue whether my theory is correct or not. It's just a theory.

Well, I can see that you're a pragmatist, which is what I appreciate. Your comment about Volvos proves that.

Right now, the ChiComs are kicking the crap out of the Indians as far as general low-cost/medium quality manufacturing capability goes. That won't last a hell of a lot longer b/c the cost of living is going up pretty quickly in the more sophisticated areas of the mainland. It's only a matter of time before the Indonesians come on line and then it will be South America.

To get back on topic, I feel bad for those of us who bought CR-Vs made in Great Britain b/c of the cost of parts. WHY would ANYONE buy a car made in Great Britain??? (that'll generate some hate mail, I'm sure). If I had a "G" car instead of a "J" car, my very first project would be to retrofit the front end with J car spec AC parts. It would probably look like hell but I'd just cover it up with the front fascia.

I can see from a number of the posts that these problems have scared off (or at least rattled) future Honda buyer. From what I've read, I don't see this as a major problem.

I've had some recent problems that caused me to spend a few bucks on the CR-V but I'm not that concerned. A rear caliper locked closed, grinding away the brake pad and I had the metal brake pad grinding into the brake disk. Never heard the brake tell tale kick in and the rear brake caliper/disk was HOT. Replaced that and brake usage seems to be as expected.

CR-Vs also have a bad reputation for ABS units and the dealer cost is beyond belief; it is staggering to say the least. My ABS master is making a "ticking" sound so I bought a used unit off of a "good" car and just have that sitting on the shelf for the time when I need it. Couldn't find a ChiCom replacement. I still think this is a great car for the price but will also look at the Koreans when we next go shopping. And probably Geely if they have a truckette in the line up by them.

I can't resist poking fun at the mechanics who will only work with certain brands of tools. Snap On is very good quality but I don't know that the price is justified over that of Craftsman or even Home Depot/Lowes' brand. Oh, I'm not against buying very high quality tools, I have a set of Hazet tools that I used when I worked as a mechanic. They're just tools.

It's not the tools, it's always been the guy/gal behind the tool.

As a post edit add, I'll try to repsond to your other questions. Clearly, in my opinion, Harbor Freight does not "sell junk" and their warranties are as good as anyone's out there. I even bought an 8" swing lathe from these guys and we're clearly not talking about high end here - there's a lot of lash that needs to be taken out before you do high quality work. BUT, it easily turned a true 4" diameter, 3 inch long extension for a crank pulley on the small block which drives my centrifugal supercharger. Plus I got a two year, no questions asked, return-whenever-I-want to warranty. I actually use this stuff rather than talking theory.

Also, based on my experience, you/anyone clearly DOES NOT get what they pay for when are serviced by a dealer. Yes, I know it takes money to cover overhead costs. Rather than ripping off Joe or Jane Doe, why doesn't the dealer just reduce overhead costs? Stop allowing the salespeople to drive home in dealer cars would be a REAL good place to start. Teaching sales people that dealer cars are to be driven with respect would be another good way to reduce overhead.

The concept of a flat rate book is archaic. If the manufacturers would stop this nonsense, then you could really encourage dealers to become competitive.

When you take your car to a dealer (or any shop for that matter but dealers are the most virulent with the practice), you pay top dollar for a mechanic, regardless of his/her quality. Makes sense, because they have so much overhead (see my points above). The quality of expertise is uneven but that doesn't affect the cost of the job. Sounds like a teacher's union to me. I went to a Honda dealer on Route 73 in South Jersey because my CR-V had THREE recalls to be fixed (honest to God, the fourth one was in my mailbox when I got home that night). They proudly displayed their service customer satisfaction rating - 69% for the top ranking. I understood why when I went to pick up my CR-V. Their AFSME certified mechanic neglected to attach the driver's side door panel when I went to take the car home. Musta' had a tough day.

As far as the difference in cost for compressors, I just checked again and I was wrong on the price. The cost is $179, not $199 as previoulsy stated. The rebuilt Honda compressors were ~$400. The reason why I didn't go with the rebuild is my experience with rebuilt water pumps and brake calipers - I just haven't had good luck with them and decided to go a new route. And as I noted previously, the Honda OTC price was beyond sanity. As it was, I HAD to buy a relay from Honda and that cost me $30!!!!!!! It has a proprietary pinout so I had no choice. OK, I'll but a local GENUINE HONDA part every 8 years or so. LOL!

I think that you and I are probably about the same age with similar backgrounds. We would probably get along quite well.

I think the reason you are so tuned into air flow is because, like me, you dealt with cars that ran so hot they were always on the edge. We had to watch our temp guages and if caught in a traffic jam, we had to switch off our A/C. When we had our radiators recored we usually "stepped up" and bought the heavy duty four row jobs. These made a BIG difference.

But at this point, when I walk into our local HF, I feel the tools and look at the quality. They sell both good and inferior stuff. I am not sold on the Chinese stuff but in the case of a seldom used tool, sure, I would buy it.

Funny, our 2003 CRV has never had a recall for anything. It is a "Japan" car.

I do have my brake fluid changed every two years to prevent my calipers form freezing up.

Hazet tools? Some old time German mechanics will use nothing but Hazet or Stalwille.

Where did you wire in the 10" fan vinnie? I meant to ask you that before. Is it with the clutch wiring? The clutch is an electro-magnet action I believe, so not a lot of current. But if u used that connection, then the fan would work off and on without u having to remember to sw it all the time. What was that fan rated to draw in amps, did you happen to notice? And rpm etc? It looks like it might be std issue universal use accessory rad cooling part? $ ?

Also, when u mounted it it looks like it is mounted directly to the condenser? Yet surely not. The vibration would quickly loosen the very lightly place fins. In the pic it actually looks like u poked a hole though a fin area, but that must be an optical illusion.

As a desert dweller, I have had FIVE A/C compressors fail on my 04 CR-V. Every summer, like clockwork. The first one failed the first summer in 05, and subsequently in 06, 07, 08 and 09. The first two times the whole system was replaced by the factory warranty, the second two by the extended warranty (in fact, my dealer waived the deductable on the 4th one), and this last one wasn't covered at all. It's sitting parked while I drive my 04 Hyundai Sonata for the summer. I guess the Hyundai will get a winter vacation. The heater on the CR-V works great!

Update blower for air ceased so returned to Honda dealer and they said something had triggered the fusebox to fail and it was the blower transmitter. Replacement would have been 227 but since same week of the other work gave me a break and charged 89 instead. Go figure that one. lol :confuse:

I want to wrap this up because I didn't respond to this post to gain a pen pal.

What I can say with great authority is that I've posted what I've actually done and I hope this helps some of you folks figure out what to do with your own problem vehicle. If you follow my advice, I think you'll obtain some useful information.

I'll see you folks next year or so and let you know how my assumptions worked out, good, bad or indifferent.

Anyone having problem getting a compressor from Honda? Mine out for 2 weeks and Honda told me they were back ordered and would arrive yesterday. Now telling me 8/21...another 2 weeks. Not a happy camper. Anyone know where I can get one on line? Thanks :mad: