Why do women date jerks? (meaningful discussion)

Hey everyone. First of all, I hope the ladies here don't take offense to this thread, but I really want help understanding this. Why do women date jerks? I mean there are so many decent guys out there (like me and many others for example), but we can't get dates because there are a small number of guys (the players, alpha males, top dogs etc.) who date the majority of the girls. I realize that women are biologically attracted to dominant males just like females in the animal kingdom, but I'm sure that women realize that these guys will not make great fathers or husbands, because they date other women. There has to be some sort of logic here. Any input, male or female would be greatly appreciated. Please keep the discussion mature.

They like jerks, but they also like good guys.
Just don't be boring/predictable/unstable/a doormat and you'll be okay.
Unfortunately, not being boring/predictable/unstable/a doormat is kinda hard for a lot of guys, including me.

While I'm not going to deny that there are some women out there who are actually intro jerks but from personal experience these types of women are nothing but trouble and I really don't get why guys get so upset over them.

But still I do find the whole chicks digging jerks thing is grossly over exaggerated and most of the time really more of a lame excuse used by guys who wanna blame someone else for not being able to get a girlfriend.

Just like you say there's lots of men out there...there's a lot of GREAT women out there who are maybe a little less pretty...and men don't pay them enough attention. So it goes both ways. If you want a great looking girl, you gotta BE great looking to match. If you want a girl who works out, go to the gym and BE that.

Just like you say there's lots of men out there...there's a lot of GREAT women out there who are maybe a little less pretty...and men don't pay them enough attention. So it goes both ways. If you want a great looking girl, you gotta BE great looking to match. If you want a girl who works out, go to the gym and BE that.

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Thanks I should have read this reply first, I think the guys tend to go for girls they'll get a lot out of, and maybe the not so pretty ones. I actually got really attracted to a guy but obviously he started treating me like shit when I didn't give it up the first time he found out I was into him. So he's hanging out now with abnoxious drunk girls so he'll get sex out of them. Maybe these are the ones you're reffering to?

You are casting a very broad net with your question and reasoning- one that gets thrown a lot.
Firstly, popular guys that sate a lot may or may not be jerks, and it is ludicrous to say " these guys will not make great fathers or husbands - that is at best an opinion but really more along the lines of sour grapes, to bring then down in your own estimation. I am not sure how having dated several or even many women in any way makes somebody less of any of these things? Because they did not choose to marry the first girl they dated or because the did not commit until they found the right person to commit to was wrong in some way?

Second, and more importantly I believe- you are not really asking why do women date jerks, your real question is (as later stated) why don't woman date me or guys like me? Let point out you freely admitted the "players" dated the majority of the girls. Does that imply that the women that won't day these guys, perhaps because they have the same opinion and some common ground with you are in some way inferior and not worth your consideration? Are they automatically discounted in your book because these other guys are no dating them so why should you? That is not a positive image for you to portray to them and would have a rather negative result in first impressions. Nobody wants to be "second choice or better than nothing", make sure you are not inadvertently (and i really hope not purposefully as that would definitely land you in the jerk class) giving off that signal. So far as the majority ,as you called them, of women go- you say they date jerks, and your reason I'm sure that women realize that these guys will not implies that you believe they are either stupid or make bad decisions. Also not a great first impression if you are saying the right things but you attitude and demeanor suggests to them that you think they are stupid and if you say that you don't show that to them I will tell you you are either wrong or faking it (also generally not well received by women) as you have already said that is how you feel. Bottom line - it is not the "players" that are cutting off the majority of women - it is your attitude about them, and compounding it you likely leave the others as feeling second rate. Women in general are fairly intuitive and pick up these attitudes very easily, however carefully hidden by a guy and it frankly will make it very tough going for you.

You can do things about this. I do not know if you can change your attitudes or opinions. If it is you, who you are, then accept it and work from there with the knowledge that it is not true that the majority of women are stupid, and that men who date them are jerks. If nothing else you will be less irritated at the world in general. Understand you will need to talk to a far greater number of women in order to find one that will look past the superficial of the attitude and give you a chance to show them who you are, which means getting out and talking to more women more often. Over time you will lose some of the fear that makes this difficult possibly for you now, and you will stop seeing women in general and start seeing the woman in front of you, and then you will start dating. And be assured as you do that there will be some guy sitting in the back corner looking at you and thinking why do those women like that jerk?

Hey everyone. First of all, I hope the ladies here don't take offense to this thread, but I really want help understanding this. Why do women date jerks? I mean there are so many decent guys out there (like me and many others for example), but we can't get dates because there are a small number of guys (the players, alpha males, top dogs etc.) who date the majority of the girls. I realize that women are biologically attracted to dominant males just like females in the animal kingdom, but I'm sure that women realize that these guys will not make great fathers or husbands, because they date other women. There has to be some sort of logic here. Any input, male or female would be greatly appreciated. Please keep the discussion mature.

You are casting a very broad net with your question and reasoning- one that gets thrown a lot.
Firstly, popular guys that sate a lot may or may not be jerks, and it is ludicrous to say " these guys will not make great fathers or husbands - that is at best an opinion but really more along the lines of sour grapes, to bring then down in your own estimation. I am not sure how having dated several or even many women in any way makes somebody less of any of these things? Because they did not choose to marry the first girl they dated or because the did not commit until they found the right person to commit to was wrong in some way?

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Thats why I find this whole Jerks vs Nice Guys argument to be both highly amusing and pointless. Most of the time the whole oh he's a jerk is really just a baseless accusation made by someone who is just simply jealous and pissed off because that so called jerk is really just a normal guy who did what they couldn't do.

Not to mention a lot of the guys who bitch about Jerks and cling on to the whole oh I'm such a nice guy why don't girls give a chance thing tend to prove that they are the real jerks when shit doesn't go their way.

Second, and more importantly I believe- you are not really asking why do women date jerks, your real question is (as later stated) why don't woman date me or guys like me? Let point out you freely admitted the "players" dated the majority of the girls. Does that imply that the women that won't day these guys, perhaps because they have the same opinion and some common ground with you are in some way inferior and not worth your consideration? Are they automatically discounted in your book because these other guys are no dating them so why should you? That is not a positive image for you to portray to them and would have a rather negative result in first impressions. Nobody wants to be "second choice or better than nothing", make sure you are not inadvertently (and i really hope not purposefully as that would definitely land you in the jerk class) giving off that signal. So far as the majority ,as you called them, of women go- you say they date jerks, and your reason I'm sure that women realize that these guys will not implies that you believe they are either stupid or make bad decisions. Also not a great first impression if you are saying the right things but you attitude and demeanor suggests to them that you think they are stupid and if you say that you don't show that to them I will tell you you are either wrong or faking it (also generally not well received by women) as you have already said that is how you feel. Bottom line - it is not the "players" that are cutting off the majority of women - it is your attitude about them, and compounding it you likely leave the others as feeling second rate. Women in general are fairly intuitive and pick up these attitudes very easily, however carefully hidden by a guy and it frankly will make it very tough going for you.

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Re-read my initial post again man. I never once said or implied that I think that women are stupid for dating jerks. You are interpreting what I wrote incorrectly. I'm just trying to understand why women date the guys that they date and why so many of us 'nice guys' are so damn lonely. Also, you mention that I only try to date the 'pretty' girls. That is completely wrong too. I gave up on dating the 'pretty' girls a long time ago. I'm fairly open to dating a wide variety of girls. Another thing too is that I treat women with a high degree of respect, but it seems that they just don't view me as a potential mate.

The reason I posted this thread is due to the situation that I'm currently in. I'm trying to date this girl who broke up with her ex about a year ago. She says that their relationship is over, but he keeps telling her that he loves her and wants to get back together, but she knows that he's just playing her. The reason why they broke up is because he cheated on her, which makes him a fucking jerk in my book. I define 'jerks' as the guys who screw women around and I'm sure that most people will agree with that definition. I think that she likes me, but I have yet to go on a date with her. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I have to agree with Ben and Ians views on this. Despite what these "nice guys" think, women don't always pick up on what you may think are obvious signals. Unless you tell us how you feel and ask us out on a date then most of us won't know how you feel. We do not possess psychic powers. Secondly, I find that most of the self proclaimed "nice guys" are people to avoid with a barge pole. They claim to be nice but when something doesn't go their way they get pissed, blame the girl, blame everyone else but themselves. Girls don't like whiney guys who will flip out easily, are clingy, possessive. Maybe look at your approaches to women before blaming the "jerks" of the world for your own inefficiencies.

After being with a jerk, I can safely say, I didn't pick up that he was a jerk. I had poor confidence, and well at first he was a "nice guy" he treated me well, he comforted me, he made me feel special and then his other side started showing I had no idea how to get out.

Well, just as a counterpoint I do think that some women do prefer jerks, and I think it's mostly because those women are also jerks.

Some people will try to attribute it to low self-esteem or try to paint the women as helpless victims, which is super ironic considering a guy with low self-esteem is never a victim and is mostly expected to take charge of his life and turn himself around, or alternatively feel bad about who he is… regardless, he's definitely the one to blame.

But yeah, I think that there are a lot of jerky people out there, and those people tend to date each other. Stupid vacuous idiots don't worry about the things that intelligent people worry about… and jerks don't need to have substance in a relationship, they just fall into their respective roles and then repeat the cliches that they've learned to repeat. They're what Howard Beale would refer to as humanoids, and they are growing in number.

I do think that some guys resent that women are free to choose them instead of 'the nice guy'… which is creepy yes, but no less creepy than the girl who expects every guy to want her simply because she is a woman and all men want to have sex with all women. Some nice guys are genuinely nice but are also frustrated by their lack of success and also because they've been rejected so much they end up not knowing how to treat other people, let alone girls… and they fall into this cycle of not knowing what to do/doing things wrong/getting rejected.

To be even more honest, I do think that there is such a thing as someone who is totally hopeless and who will never ever be able to form a meaningful connection with another human being. It's the result of people in general being shallower and more demanding than ever before. The reality is that for some people, your only options are an unfulfilling relationship with someone you don't really care for, or a life of solitude.

I thought I'd throw my thoughts in the mix, whether it will be helpful or not I don't know, though I hope it will be. I'm female and I've dated jerks. Why do I do that? I ask myself the same thing. There are a couple of ideas I have about why. Firstly, I'm extremely damaged. I have stupidly low self esteem and I find it difficult to maintain personal relationships with just about anyone. I also have a LOT of emotional baggage. So if a guy gives me attention and makes me feel cared about and wanted, my jerk visor immediately gets blinded. I let them treat me like shit, make me feel absolutely awful, in the hope that they won't leave me. Pathetic, I know. Also, I think that BECAUSE I'm so fucked up, I only attract the jerks who know once they get under my skin they can do pretty much anything and I'll just blame it all on myself. I only seem to come across jerks, which is a bit of a shame for me lol.

Re-read my initial post again man. I never once said or implied that I think that women are stupid for dating jerks. You are interpreting what I wrote incorrectly. I'm just trying to understand why women date the guys that they date and why so many of us 'nice guys' are so damn lonely. Also, you mention that I only try to date the 'pretty' girls. That is completely wrong too. I gave up on dating the 'pretty' girls a long time ago. I'm fairly open to dating a wide variety of girls. Another thing too is that I treat women with a high degree of respect, but it seems that they just don't view me as a potential mate.

The reason I posted this thread is due to the situation that I'm currently in. I'm trying to date this girl who broke up with her ex about a year ago. She says that their relationship is over, but he keeps telling her that he loves her and wants to get back together, but she knows that he's just playing her. The reason why they broke up is because he cheated on her, which makes him a fucking jerk in my book. I define 'jerks' as the guys who screw women around and I'm sure that most people will agree with that definition. I think that she likes me, but I have yet to go on a date with her. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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I did not say the word pretty or that you were only trying to date pretty girls anywhere in my post - that you assumed that I did or that is what you got from it goes miles towards validating my other assertions. What I said was girls with similar opinions that you shared common ground with with- another words were not attracted to the "players" which to me could make them most any type of woman at all. No, you sis not "say" you thought these women were stupid but you clearly say that you think they are making bad decisions and it is generally held that if you think someone makes lots of bad decisions you would think they were stupid or hold them in a less than favorable light. I really recommend that you consider some serious self reflection to consider these things.
More to your second question, I would say it is fairly obvious that she still has some feelings for this guy, be it guilt in origin or or still infatuated if she is still considering him a year later. It is not uncommon for either men or women to cling long past what is reasonable to an old relationship for a variety of reasons. If that is not the case then she may be trying to blow you off without being mean. Be straightforward and ask what do i need to do to get you to go on a date with me. If she says she just isn't interested in that way so be it and look for another instead of clinging to something that is not going to happen.

Well, just as a counterpoint I do think that some women do prefer jerks, and I think it's mostly because those women are also jerks.

I do think that some guys resent that women are free to choose them instead of 'the nice guy'… which is creepy yes, but no less creepy than the girl who expects every guy to want her simply because she is a woman and all men want to have sex with all women. Some nice guys are genuinely nice but are also frustrated by their lack of success and also because they've been rejected so much they end up not knowing how to treat other people, let alone girls… and they fall into this cycle of not knowing what to do/doing things wrong/getting rejected.

To be even more honest, I do think that there is such a thing as someone who is totally hopeless and who will never ever be able to form a meaningful connection with another human being. It's the result of people in general being shallower and more demanding than ever before. The reality is that for some people, your only options are an unfulfilling relationship with someone you don't really care for, or a life of solitude.

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Yes , some men are jerks and some women are jerks - i don't happen to believe that to be the majority but certainly something to be considered. Yes, there are certainly woman (and men also) who truly expect people to be in line for them for no reason at all, and never figure out the people in that line are not worth the time of day. The only way to to to learn how to interact better with people is to get out of the corner and do it. It is difficult in the face of past rejection but understanding that rejection is more common than not is part of the process- some are able to easily shrug off that rejection, some are not and I am empathetic to the ones that have difficulties seeing the rejection as a personal thing rather than just a "something". No, I do not believe it is hopeless for anybody, and it certainly is not hopeless because humans are shallower or more demanding as a whole - that is pure deflection and attempt to blame everybody else- I am right and the rest of the world is wrong. A narcissistic attitude seldom makes a relationship involving more than yourself easier. The final line is purely self fulfilling prophesy - if you believe you will fail from the beginning then you undoubtedly will end up failing the vast majority of the time.

I thought I'd throw my thoughts in the mix, whether it will be helpful or not I don't know, though I hope it will be. I'm female and I've dated jerks. Why do I do that? I ask myself the same thing. There are a couple of ideas I have about why. Firstly, I'm extremely damaged. I have stupidly low self esteem and I find it difficult to maintain personal relationships with just about anyone. I also have a LOT of emotional baggage. So if a guy gives me attention and makes me feel cared about and wanted, my jerk visor immediately gets blinded. I let them treat me like shit, make me feel absolutely awful, in the hope that they won't leave me. Pathetic, I know. Also, I think that BECAUSE I'm so fucked up, I only attract the jerks who know once they get under my skin they can do pretty much anything and I'll just blame it all on myself. I only seem to come across jerks, which is a bit of a shame for me lol.

Anyway, that's why I date 'jerks'.

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That applies not only to you but to many many people, men and women alike. Unfortunately there will always be a bunch of buttholes to take advantage of these people because they are just as broken but in a far sicker way.

This thread and the responses to it make my head hurt. Because everyone is right and wrong all at the same time. Human attraction and relationships are a complex and confusing thing. Perhaps the only reason "jerks" have an easier time with it all is because they don't put much thought into it. They take what they want and ignore everything else, while the rest of us are wondering why so-and-so doesn't want us, or why our last relationship didn't work out, or why this person is with that person or whatever else. Yeah, some people do like jerks. Some people let themselves be taken advantage of by jerks. Some people who claim to be nice are actually jerks, but just don't know it. People like confidence, the world is shallow, blah blah blah. We're all putting way too much fucking thought into this all. Stop worrying and wondering what went wrong. Most people are far too complex to be analyzed and summed up with a label. You don't know exactly why certain people reject you and you may never know. But dwelling on it isn't going to help jack shit, it's just going to make you even more self conscious which will in turn sabotage your chances with future relationships.

If you like someone, tell them how you feel. If they don't reciprocate those feelings, move on. That's really all you can do. There are 7 billion people in this world. Every single one of them has their own tastes, attractions, expectations and baggage. None of them perfectly adhere to a single label. Trying to overanalyze people, the world, and your role in it is an exercise in futility. Tell me what is more productive - coming here and having a discussion on why certain people are attracted to other people, or just going to the girl that you like and telling her that you like her? People don't always have conscious control over who they are attracted to... it just happens. Telling women that they should be attracted to you instead of some other guy is as ridiculous as somebody telling you that your favorite color is wrong and that you should pick a different one. Lots of women don't find me attractive... I used to think that if they were "smart", they would take a chance on a guy like me. But somewhere along the way it occurred to me that I don't want some woman dating me just because she's "tired of dating jerks" and finally ready to take a chance on a guy she's not really attracted to. If she doesn't really want me for me, if all she cares about is the fact that I might treat her better than her ex, then I don't really want to be with her, because at that point it's obvious that she cares about herself more than she will ever care about me. You don't realize it, but you're essentially asking women to be with you even though they don't really want to be with you... and you think that will make you happy? It won't, man. That's not love. That could never be love. Love cannot be forced, it's not a logical choice.

My advice: tell this girl how you feel. After that, let it go. Let her decide what she wants. If she wants to be with you, great. If not, move on. There is no point in wasting your time with someone who doesn't want to be with you. I'm saying this as someone who has been on both sides of that equation. The attraction is either there or it isn't. Stop worrying about the details, why people are attracted to certain people and whatnot, because there really isn't a goddamn thing you can do about all of that. Like I said, part of the reasons the "jerks" and players do so much better than the rest of us is because they don't sit there and have pity parties and worry about stupid shit like this, they just go after what they want without self doubt or hesitation.

My advice: tell this girl how you feel. After that, let it go. Let her decide what she wants. If she wants to be with you, great. If not, move on. There is no point in wasting your time with someone who doesn't want to be with you. I'm saying this as someone who has been on both sides of that equation. The attraction is either there or it isn't. Stop worrying about the details, why people are attracted to certain people and whatnot, because there really isn't a goddamn thing you can do about all of that. Like I said, part of the reasons the "jerks" and players do so much better than the rest of us is because they don't sit there and have pity parties and worry about stupid shit like this, they just go after what they want without self doubt or hesitation.

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Thanks for your helpful advise. You pretty much summed it up nicely. I've asked her out a couple of times for coffee, but she has always said that she's busy and found excuses not to meet me up. I guess she just isn't that interested in me. But what bothers me is that she texts me saying how this guy is such a jerk and blah, blah, blah. Well if he's such a jerk, then cut him off and date me for God's sake! I guess part of my problem is that I over-analyze situations. But to be honest, I'm losing faith in women in general, because this seems to always happen when I meet a girl I like. And that's what I'm afraid of. Being a lonely guy the rest of my life.

^She sounds like a jerk who wants to be with jerks... and you're making her into someone more interesting than she actually is because you're attracted to her.

A lot of the time the reason that jerks get girls is because they don't feel anything, or it doesn't mean anything to them. They're honest about what they want, they're honest with themselves about who this girl is, and they don't do it because she's special or because they have romantic ideas about their future-- they just do it because they can.

It's harder to relate to people who mean a lot to you or who you build up into something they're not... and 'nice guys' tend to bring a lot of baggage to even the most basic interactions with the opposite sex... and sometimes she'll use that to manipulate you into doing whatever she wants-- whether it's filling in the gaps in her social calendar, or listening to her whiny bullshit, supporting her when her friends aren't willing to (because they've got their own BS to deal with and don't like her so much anyways), etc.

I don't agree that you should tell her how you feel... because I think you should already know that she's not into you. If she were into you, she wouldn't be finding excuses not to meet up... if a girl likes you, then her social calendar will almost always be empty, or she might even invite you along, depending on what it is. Sometimes she is genuinely busy, but then she should also be making future plans... if things are left as a 'sometime' or 'whenever', then she's probably not interested.