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Where is everyone getting this early 2014 from? They said SPRING 2014. That technically runs through Jun of 2014. That is more than a couple of months. My only concern is that due to the little we have seen that even June may be pushed back a little further (again).

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Originally posted by DiTHI dont expect this anytime be4 summer 2014 at least.Considering the state of beta and the ammount of PR around.

I just don't understand this "state of beta" have you people never been in a beta before? Do you people understand beta is not a free trial? The last beta had a goal had a point did those who keep saying "state of beta" just run around and try to find things that may or may not have been done or working properly on purpose? I have been in my fair share of betas and this one was on Par with the rest for a game that could be 6months out from when the beta was available.

Betas are not a free trial.

Betas are not a depiction of the finished game. In six months with today's technology a lot can be done to a video game.

Most betas have goals like reach level 17 and head to a certain area. Not all featured are always added during betas that have specific goals this includes all graphics, areas, npcs and loot tables.

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Originally posted by gwei1984

Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

Public dungeons are supposed to be the opposite of this. They're supposed to be massive sprawling mazes capable of having content for multiple groups of people so you can go in alone, or wander in and find a group in progress.

Unfortunately the last game that comes in my mind which tried this, was DAOC with its Labyrinth of the Minotaur. Everything else created since then were those fu.... narrow railroad dungeons!

That's not right, Vanguard has some vast open dungeons, some taking days to complete and have multiple group content spreading over many levels.

In fact the game has no instanced dungeons, say what you want about Vanguard but when it comes to group dungeons it's right up there with EQ and all the old school mmo's.

Over 100+ open dungeons and some taking days or even a week to complete.

Vanguard has some of the biggest and interesting dungeons to date imo.

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My suspicions have been they were essentially on track to deliver a SWTOR-esque experience and have since been back peddling to rebuild the game into something that could survive the current MMO environment.

Lately, it seems like any info has been them selling us on how ESO will provide an Elder Scrolls experience but in a MMO. Even the latest stuff on advancement came off as less info driven and more them pleading with us that advancement is Elder Scrolls at heart (when there is something clearly off with how classes work in the whole system).

In this case, its almost as if they started going down the class-based path and freaked when they started seeing what players expected and wanted. So they came up with some odd hybrid system.

If anything, my fears is that they're iterating on designs that they realize will not provide a sustainable game and just aren't going to give themselves the time to take those designs to the level they need to be.

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Originally posted by GrootI really miss huge dungeons that you could get lost in.

Yeah me too. I always loved dungeon settings. ^^

Vanguard. best dungeons in any mmo i have played. some small that you just stumble across in the middle of nowhere. others are incredibly large and can give hours of entertainment.

"There are at least two kinds of games.One could be called finite, the other infinite.A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

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I won't believe anything about this game until i see gameplay video and lots of it. This being secret crap is nothing but bs. Suckers will buy the game without knowing anything. Look at all the Wildstar content out there. I'm NOT BUYING INTO THIS CRAP. They think we gamers are stupid is what i'm getting from all this.

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I expect more info in January with some beta test announcement. Then more info about whatever they haven't shown, then open beta announcement, then finally know if the game will be released in Spring 2014 or pushed back due to open beta pitfalls.

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Originally posted by HarikenI won't believe anything about this game until i see gameplay video and lots of it. This being secret crap is nothing but bs. Suckers will buy the game without knowing anything. Look at all the Wildstar content out there. I'm NOT BUYING INTO THIS CRAP. They think we gamers are stupid is what i'm getting from all this.

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Wildstar is ESO's only competition and from being in the Winter Beta myself i can say that i am still wildly waiting for ESO.I have no doubt ESO will bring in more people (esp adult's) than Wildstar , Wildstars combat is good but that's its only strong point .

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Originally posted by Silverune

They are certainly keeping tight lipped about a lot of things, especially since it is suppposed to be an early 2014 release. Does the lack of information and ingame gameplay videos mean they are not confident in their product?

I remember GW2, Warhammer, Lore of the Rings Online releasing a wealth of videos about content with abudance information for the masses before release. All The elder scrolls seem to have is a regular question and answers update on their website and not much to back up what is being said.

NDA lift perhaps? or are would they be afraid of such a move?

Honestly, it's tough to say.

The game is still very much in beta, but I do know they are trying to release it by mid 2014. I'm not sure why they are being so secretive about everything, unless they are trying to keep the hype in check until just before release.

If not, their biggest mistake with this game would be in how they are handling public information. It's scaring a lot of people away from this title, for no good reason.

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Originally posted by DiTHI dont expect this anytime be4 summer 2014 at least.Considering the state of beta and the ammount of PR around.

I just don't understand this "state of beta" have you people never been in a beta before? Do you people understand beta is not a free trial? The last beta had a goal had a point did those who keep saying "state of beta" just run around and try to find things that may or may not have been done or working properly on purpose? I have been in my fair share of betas and this one was on Par with the rest for a game that could be 6months out from when the beta was available.

Betas are not a free trial.

Betas are not a depiction of the finished game. In six months with today's technology a lot can be done to a video game.

Most betas have goals like reach level 17 and head to a certain area. Not all featured are always added during betas that have specific goals this includes all graphics, areas, npcs and loot tables.

Sadly, people think it is a free trial. They think Beta = Early Marketing Push. I don't know whether they don't know better, or they do, but play the "ignorant" card in order to justify themselves playing it like a trial, and not as a hunt for bugs, etc.

It's like people who use exploits in games that anyone would realize is just that (glitching your way through or over walls to bypass content, etc), but - again - playing the ignorant card by saying "well, if I'm able to do it, then how am I supposed to know it's not by design?" Same idea here. They play dumb to avoid personal responsibility for it, but they know exactly what the situation is. They know exactly what they're doing.

I do know that at least in many cases, people go into them with that attitude of "it's only a free trial for marketing". I've seen people, when reminded they're there to test, not "play", respond with "It's not my job to find problems with their game. That's their job. They want me to fix their game, they can pay me". They seriously have that attitude. Why these people aren't immediately kicked out of Beta by some GM overseeing things... I don't know. Especially when those same people then take to bashing the game every chance they get.