The C4 WRC made its debut at the 2007 Monaco rally where it came first 1-2... a sign of things to come. This also marked Citroen's full manufacturer return to the WRC after a slight sabbatical. With Loeb at the helm the C4 WRC is proving to be just as good-- if not better than Citroen's previous competitor, the Xsara, which still competes to this day in the hands of privateers.

NOTE: This was posted on March 20th, 2009. As of time of post this is still an active car in the WRC and thus the results / technical specifications are privy to change. Original poster is not responsible for any inconveinence, discomfort, irritiable bowel syndrome, or any sort of physical maladies which may befell the reader due to the nature of this post.

Uncool. Olivier Quesnel, team boss of Citroen's factory team, basically just said "we have a good car, not the best car, and the best driver, Sebastien Loeb". Even Citroen themselves say it's more the driver than the car! Plus, I always think this car looks kinda weird with its grill-that's-not-quite-a-grill and swept back headlamps and prius-ey hatchback shape.

Replace that car with every single other car that took place in the Cyprus rally and you'd all vote frozen for it. All the other cars took the same route.

There are certain segments/genres where none of us would call ANY of the cars cool (hybrid people-movers, for example). WRC cars are the opposite. Rallying is so damned cool you'll be hard-pressed to find any rally car that wouldn't get voted as "frozen."

Well, that's dumb "logic". These cars are built for a purpose and that is to be competitive in a series where the technical specifications are regulated and a formula is in place. Just because a car can be called a rally car doesn't automatically make it cool.

What's so cool about a shitty, ill handling, unreliable, slow, uncompetitive rally car? Nothing. But, it's a rally car so that makes it frozen/cool? Not a chance in hell. It sucks at what it does. So why would it be frozen?

Same goes for any other racing car; why would a backmarker, engine-blows-up-every-40th-lap, unpredictable/twitchy race car get voted frozen even though it's uncompetitive in its field? Why? There's no reason. It sucks. It's terrible.

I mean, fuck, why wouldn't you vote any car made in the world as frozen? They've got all transmissions, wheels, windows, steering wheels, etc. etc... they all move unassisted by a horse/cattle. That's fucking frozen right there. Except consumer cars all have different levels of quality, engineering, success, achievements, ability, predictably, handling etc. etc.

Exactly the same with race cars; so the same reason why you would vote uncool for a shitty consumer car can be applied to a shitty race car. They both suck at what they do and nobody wants to drive them. You think drivers languishing at the bottom of the standings are thinking 'Why, this is so fucking awesome. I have machinary which is shitnowhere near the front runners but this car is tTEH BEST EVAR'

And just to clarify my point... I don't mean that if a car isn't a born winner then it's uncool. I mean a race car should at least be competitive. Something that can fight for points on a regular basis, maybe snag a few podiums, or even win a race/rally.

There's no point to an uncompetitive race car. It just means that somewhere along the line, either due to a lack of resources or just a risky engineering path which didn't pay off, the development when askew and the result is something that'll frustrate a race driver who can't be competitive.

Now, an uncompetitve race car /can/ be cool if it were some radical unique design which no one else even thought of doing. Of course, we haven't really seen anything like that since the '70s, '80s, or early '90s.

Well, that's dumb "logic". These cars are built for a purpose and that is to be competitive in a series where the technical specifications are regulated and a formula is in place. Just because a car can be called a rally car doesn't automatically make it cool.

What's so cool about a shitty, ill handling, unreliable, slow, uncompetitive rally car? Nothing. But, it's a rally car so that makes it frozen/cool? Not a chance in hell. It sucks at what it does. So why would it be frozen?

Same goes for any other racing car; why would a backmarker, engine-blows-up-every-40th-lap, unpredictable/twitchy race car get voted frozen even though it's uncompetitive in its field? Why? There's no reason. It sucks. It's terrible.

I mean, fuck, why wouldn't you vote any car made in the world as frozen? They've got all transmissions, wheels, windows, steering wheels, etc. etc... they all move unassisted by a horse/cattle. That's fucking frozen right there. Except consumer cars all have different levels of quality, engineering, success, achievements, ability, predictably, handling etc. etc.

Exactly the same with race cars; so the same reason why you would vote uncool for a shitty consumer car can be applied to a shitty race car. They both suck at what they do and nobody wants to drive them. You think drivers languishing at the bottom of the standings are thinking 'Why, this is so fucking awesome. I have machinary which is shitnowhere near the front runners but this car is tTEH BEST EVAR'

Yeah, sure.

Mitlov going with his gut and Phix responding with a lengthy logical response? Brave new world, I tell ya.

My thought is there shouldn't be much pride in acting on gut instincts if your gut instincts aren't particularly honed in the subject matter. I do have to agree with phix a little that saying that all WRC cars are cool isn't very thoughtful and it shows either a very low threshold for the use of the word "cool" or, more likely, an oversimplified view.

I think this car is frozen, and since this is the cool wall and not good car/bad car, I'm going to go with my gut on this one. Phix thinks I'm an idiot. You're being condescending. None of this is going to change in the next day or so, so let's get back to the poll.

I wasn't saying you should be worried about phix being pissed off, just saying that he would be...and I was wrong, he wasn't. Anyway.

I'm just tired of everything in the cool wall being cool or frozen all the time, it is a little ridiculous. We used to be much more discerning a couple years ago here...now everyone says it's cool for this or that reason, and then defend it saying "it's just how I feel! Get off my back!". It's obnoxious.

I'm just tired of everything in the cool wall being cool or frozen all the time, it is a little ridiculous. We used to be much more discerning a couple years ago here...now everyone says it's cool for this or that reason, and then defend it saying "it's just how I feel! Get off my back!". It's obnoxious.

Well maybe if people would post more uncool cars to the wall, they'd end up in the uncool and MJU sections. I mean, it still can happes...in the past six months, the Maxima ended up in uncool and the Toyota Urban Cruiser ended up in MJU. Remarkably, the Genesis Sedan ended up in uncool (I guess before most DSers decided it was one of the best cars of 2009). But nowadays, for whatever reason, people only tend to post pretty badass cars to the cool wall, which means they end up in frozen or cool. There's not a doubt in my mind that if someone spent 10 minutes to write out a poll for the Corolla XRS, it would end up in MJU...but who amongst the regulars nowadays would waste ten minutes on that?

And I'm really not sure where you're coming from saying it's obnoxious when people vote based solely upon a visceral reaction. When people try to reason through their vote, saying why something is cool or uncool, everybody tears into everybody else because "that's not what cool is about," and you end up with an bitchy shitstorm like the GT-R thread.