Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
I feel for these men who get put into positions of power, only to find that the past deeds of centuries are to be piled onto ones shoulders as
"their" fault.

From what I've come to understand, Father Francis is showing the same character he had before coming pope.

Only time will tell if he is able to maintain his stance.

The odds are stacked against him, I think. Power tends to corrupt, because your always forced to make allowances for the more "deserved" in society.
Somebody, somewhere out there always thinks their worth a bit more than the backs he stepped on to climb up the social ladder of position and wealth.
Somebody, somewhere out there always feels their more entitled, due to some position they hold in the world.

Until this stops. The world will never change. But what do I know? I may follow Christ, but I am no catholic or christian. I'm one of the other
people.

Peace,
Cirque

I am not worried that this man will be corrupted by power. To someone with his values the trappings of wealth are an abhorrence. Likely he feels
uncomfortable in the Vatican with all its pomp and splendor and will change the papacy to suit his simplicity and humility. I have waited for a pope
like this all my life. I do believe he will put and keep his house in order.

I am not worried that this man will be corrupted by power. To someone with his values the trappings of wealth are an abhorrence. Likely he feels
uncomfortable in the Vatican with all its pomp and splendor and will change the papacy to suit his simplicity and humility. I have waited for a pope
like this all my life. I do believe he will put and keep his house in order.

??? But I never mentioned the shoes... I dont understand your responce to what you quoted of my post...

You did use the term FISHERMAN though - and Shoes of the FISHERMAN is the title of a famous movie about the papacy - I used the term as an analogy -
an example - period!
I used it merely as simile - as an overall sign of pope Francis' eschewing of pomp and circumstance......I could just have well used ermine and pearls
as an example..........why does it bother you ?

In his letter of 10 March 2009 concerning his remission of the excommunication of the four bishops of the Society of St Pius X, Pope Benedict XVI
reaffirmed: "Until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers - even though they have
been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty - do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church

1. There is no doubt about the validity of the ordination of the priests of the Society of St. Pius X. They are, however, suspended a divinis,
that is prohibited by the Church from exercising their orders because of their illicit ordination.

2. The Masses they celebrate are also valid, but it is considered morally illicit for the faithful to participate in these Masses unless they are
physically or morally impeded from participating in a Mass celebrated by a Catholic priest in good standing (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 844.2). The
fact of not being able to assist at the celebration of the so-called "Tridentine" Mass is not considered a sufficient motive for attending such
Masses.

So the first example you gave was just a bunch of whining from 'traditionalist' (aka St. Pius X Society) people who are practically in schism who want
the Tridentine Mass and not the Novus Ordo.

And as for the second ... I posted EXACTLY what the Church teaches about babies born to single parents. Everyone can be baptised as long as the
parent(s) intend to raise the child int he faith. Pope Francis was in adherence to the Catholic Catechism .. which I posted.

please educate yourself before posting in such an ill informed manner.

Originally posted by POXUSA
You Are Wrong As Rain as regards the Society of St Pius X as having been excommunicated - you are also wrong on all other
counts in your post -

Nope .. Looks like I'm correct.
They were excommunicated up until 2009.
The 'priests' still are not allowed to practice their priestly vocation within the Roman Catholic church.

I am not inclined to argue about this but I will tell you once more and then I will drop the subject, mainly because its far too complex an issue to
be discussing a place such as this.

As stated there was not an excommunication the Society of St. Pius X. You might be confusing their peculiar canonical status within the Catholic
Church with excommunication. Now - there was an excommunication of the founder and four other bishops early on - but they were 're-rehabilitated' and
restored to the Church recently by pope Benedict XVI. The order itself is in a quite different status than other orders would normally be, but the
term EXCOMMUNICATION does not apply to the Society of St. Pius X.........end of story.

As I mentioned earlier I would appreciate it if you were to educate yourself more in these matters so as not to mislead the innocents. By 'educate' I
do not mean internet and/or Wikipedia meanderings. Thank you.............

Thanks for the picture comparing the two popes. Francis has a silver plated ring and an iron cross? My, my, my - he is one of a kind. Archbishop John
Lancaster Spalding, the first bishop of Peoria (Illinois) always kept his black shoes shined, but if you happened to see the bottom of his shoe, there
was a hole in the sole.

I will believe he wants to turn things around, when he opens all the secrets and gives all the treasure to the poor.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him to fish and he eats for ever.

Giving the treasure to the poor will only delay the inevitable, they will be poor again soon, or they will turn around and make someone else poor.
What they need is a complete change in their thinking, thinking about long term goals and stability. We need a complete change in the thinking of the
rich in stopping exploiting the poor, the poor in spirit (protsitutes, drug addicts, widows and orphans (i.e. sweat shops)), and the poor in
intellect. Can any man start such a revolution? The only one I know who can do that is Jesus Christ - God.

Hebrews 10:16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them in the days to come, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their hearts and write
them on their minds."

edit on 21/3/13 by Cinrad because: (no reason given)

The purpose would not be just to feed the poor, it would be to make the church not rich as they should not be.

Matthew 19:24

Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Matthew 6:19

“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal,

As the author says there are millions of misconceptions about Catholicism. Perhaps people should pick up and read the Catechism of the Catholic Church
before they spread stories about us worshipping the Pope or Mary.

How is kissing the feet of Mary statues not worshiping, praying to Mary kissing the ring of the pope on ones knees.

Do you really think the sin of the worship of the idol golden calf was because it was a golden calf only?

The processions dressing statues of Mary in clothing and everyone trying to touch it and crying...not worship?

I pray, you are right. I would love to see the catholic church do an about face. I just worry about the opposition he faces. So Father Francis in his
role as pope will be in my thoughts at night as I lay me down to sleep. He has a tremendous feat ahead of him, and I wish him the best of luck and
godspeed.

As the author says there are millions of misconceptions about Catholicism. Perhaps people should pick up and read the Catechism of the Catholic Church
before they spread stories about us worshipping the Pope or Mary.

How is kissing the feet of Mary statues not worshiping, praying to Mary kissing the ring of the pope on ones knees.

Do you really think the sin of the worship of the idol golden calf was because it was a golden calf only?

The processions dressing statues of Mary in clothing and everyone trying to touch it and crying...not worship?

Honor and worship are two different things. Do you think Catholic are secretly worshipping Mary and claiming otherwise? We believe in God (Father, Son
and Holy Spirit). We do not worship statues and consider them to be Gods. They Israelites worshipped the golden calf as God. If someone kisses a
statue it is a kiss for the person the statue represents. Do you think I consider my statue to actually be Mary? I don't. Anyone that did would have
a serious psychiatric delusion.

As example, I have a small print of the painting of Jesus done by Akiane at age 8 called "Prince of Peace." It is on the wall in my living room
going into the kitchen. Sometimes I go next to the print and hug the wall. Jesus knows I meant that hug for Him. I can understand that anyone seeing
this might misconstrue the action as "house love."

I hope you can figure this out. When Pope Francis washes and kisses the feet of juvenile prisoners on Holy Thursday don't assume this is
anything but a act of love and done in imitation of Christ's actions before the Last Supper.

'Unpredictable pope' to wash feet of 12 prisoners

Typically held either in St Peter's Basilica or in the Church of St John in Lateran, this is the Pope's church in his capacity as Bishop of
Rome. The former archbishop of Buenos Aires instead will hold the service in the Casal del Marmo jail. Francis is expected to wash and kiss the feet
of 12 inmates, in a gesture that commemorates Jesus' humility towards his disciples before the Last Supper, the night before he was
crucified.

The Pope won't and shouldn't change the practices of the church to be in line with all that you listed as what he REALLY needs to do. What if someone
said that to REALLY be in line with the Bible, Jehovah's Witnesses (or any other denomination of Bible-followers) need to learn the language of the
Bible, not just rely on a translation, however well-researched & agreed upon as correct by religious leaders or committees. Because that is what you
are implying: "There can be no interpretations of the Bible, there is the one True Bible, which is to be taken literally (in the original language, of
course) & I'm qualified to speak to it's meaning and application because I am a member of the one true faith, and know literal verbatim context of
the Bible in it's original form."

To use this thread and your response in it to proselytize (? is that your intent?) is just annoying. If I could attempt to reason with an annoying fly
buzzing around the kitchen as to why it's annoying me, I prpbably would.That's an issue I admit I should work on. I would not try to reason with it
(if it had intelligence) about it's nature or instincts or it's choice in beliefs (some call that FAITH), nor would I get vaidation of my own beliefs
by reasoning to the fly about the holes and untruths in his beliefs.

In an ideal world, I wouldn't, anyway. The ideal world where dogmatic posts of superiority dont annoy me, & the ideal world where my ego doesnt
dictate posts.

edit on 22-3-2013 by kkrattiger because: Add "" around what subace is implying.

Originally posted by Char-Lee
kissing the ring of the pope on ones knees.

No ring kissing in this picture from Tuesday...

When this happened earlier this week, many were moved to tears. Pope Francis kissed the head of a disabled man after he spotted him in the crowd
as he rode through St. Peter's Square March 19 ahead of his inaugural Mass at the Vatican. (Catholic News Service photo/L'Osservatore Romano)

No he's trying to live by example to rebut all the true statements that the catholic church has been corrupted by greed. Its at least a start. If
you european or american, it is your government conditioning you to accept a lower standard of living. You are not taxed by the vatican.

I now find myself liking this guy and am now happy to call myself a roman catholic outside the church as he has shown humility and unlike the
corruption of the past he (despite my reservation's concerning the Falkland islands being myself British) has shown himself to be a genuine and humble
man of faith worthy of emulation so far, even if he did back the junta whom murdered thousand's in Argentina he may have been unaware or just scared
for his life - something he may have repented long and hard, as he seems a very brave and devout soul let us just hope they don't murder him as there
are dark forces in the Vatican and they did murder John Paul the 1st when he announced he was going to reform the church as he was going to use the
Vatican bank for helping the poor and that is were the mafia inside and outside the church hide most of there wealth.

I am truly ashamed I ever doubted this guy and I hope we do not lose him.

"The 'Throne of Peter' in Clementine Hall, where popes have received delegates from other faiths and countries, has been replaced with a simple
chair. To some reading this, it won't sound like much but it's BIG. The Throne of Peter represented apostolic succession from Jesus Himself through
Peter and unending down to each Pope. That symbol is gone."

Correction, the throne of Peter represented the Monarchy which the Church was right up until around the 1850s when they lost the Papal States to
Italy. That throne never did represent the Apostolic succession of the Church. That honour has always been reserved for the position of the Bishhop
of Rome, and through him to the Bishops around the world, and through them to the Priests and Deacons.

I for one am happy to see the Church humble itself. Furthermore, I have seen ATS innundated with threads vilifying Rome for its opulence while others
suffer. Now that a Pope wants to change that, you all find ways to trash the man.

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