HEDGEYE: One Of The Most Polarizing Companies In Finance Is Suing A Stay-At-Home Dad For Defamationhttp://www.businessinsider.com/hedgeye-keith-mccullough-vs-carmine-pirone-2014-5/comments
en-usWed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 -0500Tue, 20 Mar 2018 00:40:17 -0400Christina Sterbenzhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/5384db7aecad046361dfdb98nike free chukkaTue, 27 May 2014 14:37:46 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5384db7aecad046361dfdb98
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Keiths is one bitter guy! Once CNBC fired his ass he lost his mind! He made a youtube ch in some basement studio LOLhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/53729061ecad045729c368b7Ted C.Tue, 13 May 2014 17:36:33 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/53729061ecad045729c368b7
ah yes "douche"....universal language for "ignore my comments" Classy.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/53728f7a6bb3f70c4fc368afWillHTue, 13 May 2014 17:32:42 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/53728f7a6bb3f70c4fc368af
I am not a real time alerts subscriber, nor do i want to be.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/53725814eab8ea95408af175CNBC Tue, 13 May 2014 13:36:20 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/53725814eab8ea95408af175
CNBC = Chimp Cityhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/5372554aeab8eae3328af172InterestingTue, 13 May 2014 13:24:26 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5372554aeab8eae3328af172
Yikeshttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/537253ba6da81154272a1284Loser BloodTue, 13 May 2014 13:17:46 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/537253ba6da81154272a1284
Or a jackass who uses "Tiger Blood " as his title
Get to rehab , ASAPhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/537253666bb3f7927bbab4f6Ha HaTue, 13 May 2014 13:16:22 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/537253666bb3f7927bbab4f6
CNBC spotlights this guy all the time , he must be "great"http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5372531b6bb3f75e77bab4f9Chimp Tue, 13 May 2014 13:15:07 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5372531b6bb3f75e77bab4f9
Hedgeye sells research to investors .... but isn't registered with FINRA ?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5372531869bedda615b5a60eChimp Tue, 13 May 2014 13:15:04 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5372531869bedda615b5a60e
Hedgeye sells research to investors .... but isn't registered with FINRA ?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/537241f66da81142542a1284James CameronTue, 13 May 2014 12:01:58 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/537241f66da81142542a1284
Inane comment . . . presumably you have the same sentiment regarding stay at home moms, tiger.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/53722f8469bedd8104b5a60fBigStickTue, 13 May 2014 10:43:16 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/53722f8469bedd8104b5a60f
Memo to the 17 year old: If you want to save yourself $260/year on Real Time Alerts, just go to your high school math teacher, have her teach you how to do a non-linear regression, buy the student version of Excel for $99, and call it a day. That's all this product is, there's no mystery here. It will take you half an hour to learn and 5 minutes to update.
Can't believe (yet somehow not surprised) someone started a fund based on an easily replicated regression equation that doesn't factor even in bid-ask spreads or dividends.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5371138d6da811a9744879eaAlpha DirectedMon, 12 May 2014 14:31:41 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/5371138d6da811a9744879ea
...
Because thats not how it works. Big,medium,small shops all use outside "reference" to see the trading environment. You vet against outside thesis. Even quant shops buy outside fundamental info.
I think he said the outside thesis was over priced and bullshit.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/53704a4d6da8111b5c95cee0Tiger BloodMon, 12 May 2014 00:13:01 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/53704a4d6da8111b5c95cee0
I won't apologize to the responders above b/c they tore me such a disproportionately huge new one for what was after all lighthearted little snarkiness.
But you've been such a gentleman, Bear, that I am shamed into a heartfelt apology,
Sorry if I hurt any feeling, Happy Mother's Day to the hard-working Mrs, and best wishes for the kids going forward. More power to you all.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536fc3616bb3f745521e8f94jon lawSun, 11 May 2014 14:37:21 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536fc3616bb3f745521e8f94
Our consumer analyst liked Hedgeye's gaming analyst and he believed he had good new flow out of Macau. His work was not based on any "proprietary trading signal" but from new flow from what I remember. Some of the analysts there at Hedgeye are pretty good from what I gather but having a leader like Keith barking - it's a pass for us.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536f5f5e6da811884195cee5jon lawSun, 11 May 2014 07:30:38 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536f5f5e6da811884195cee5
my firm used to be an institutional subscriber to Hedgeye years ago. My analyst thought the gaming analyst was good. Hedgeye was so aggressive asking for a stupid amount of money that my firm eventually passed. We didn't want Keith and all his BS. We listened once to his morning call and it was like the guy was barking. Keith was bearish from 09-Nov 2012 from what we could see. His trades lasted 1-3 days on average and we were not looking for scalps. If we were take a 1-2% position in some of the names we'd move the stock to where he would be flipping out of it. I recall once they liked Burger King and they sold it for a .10 gain which was a 2%+ gain since it was under $. That's no model for a real investor or even trader. Why people with real money would want to rely on another firm for trade ideas is beyond me. He's a joke among the long only/hedge fund world.
His business model is the most perplexing. He claims his firm is worth "$250 million" yet he does not have a trading desk where he could get paid direct by institutional investors (I used to work on a buy side trading desk) and he relies on hard dollar payments from large funds. He said he has 60 people working at Hedgeye (~lets say average salary $100k) = $6m year/$500k per month), 30 Bloomberg terminals as he claims (~2000 per month = $720k year/60k month - he can't soft dollar that expense like a fund can), Rent (~10,000 month/120k year - his offices are in north stamford - far from prime real estate, metro north and anything for that matter). There are lot's of other expenses of course but that's ~$600k a month or $7,200,000 a year in overhead. I've lowballed a few things like salaries and rent but the fact is this is not a sustainable business as markets are cyclical and when they turn out of favor or Hedgeye's lucky charms disappear so will institutional clients budgets (this is obvious as performance dips for long only and hedge funds they cut budgets - and funds of all sorts are having a tougher time this year). Mom and Pop subscribers will drop off too as most do not short stocks and have no appetite to invest as day traders short term. Most Mom and Pop subs don't like taking losses either so many will hold losers and ignore Keith's signals too.
Lastly, we want to do business with people I like. Keith is not a person we like so we chose to not do business with him. We don't wish him or anyone bad luck but for a large institution like ours - we're taking a pass.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536f017e69bedd15697c70bbrjjrSun, 11 May 2014 00:50:06 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536f017e69bedd15697c70bb
1) Keith is not polarizing - for someone to be polarizing, there'd have to be people who love him (outside of his friends, family and employees)..all I see here and on Twitter is disgust and mockery.
2) Cramer's Shirt has a legal defense fund to help him stand up to this clown. He estimates it will take $20K to respond to the suit. I just chipped in $50 <a href="http://inspirepay.com/pay/super-k-sucks" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://inspirepay.com/pay/super-k-sucks</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536e4fa66bb3f75a267c70b9mike77Sat, 10 May 2014 12:11:18 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536e4fa66bb3f75a267c70b9
damages for what? LOL clown time.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536e4ed869bedd813a7c70bbmike77Sat, 10 May 2014 12:07:52 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536e4ed869bedd813a7c70bb
PT Barnum in wall st spats.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536e451cecad04905a7c70b9MontyBurnsSat, 10 May 2014 11:26:20 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536e451cecad04905a7c70b9
I briefly subscribed to McCullough's RTA out of morbid curiosity after witnessing all his straw-man slaying twitter muscle ridiculousness. What's so funny about his entire schtick is that he won't stop saying how he's some alternative to "Old Wall" yet he's running one of the oldest scams in the book. RTA is a day trading style service that cloaks itself in all kinds of macro nonsense that has absolutely no bearing on the average time he "holds" one of his fake positions.
The biggest part of the scam is the way he "measures" the success rate of RTA and it's the main thing Carmine exposed by actually calculating the returns. The way Keith measures RTA is by a batting average of how many were wins and how many were losers. This is complete nonsense and he knows it. His winners tend to be little intra day or overnight scalps of entries and exits that on average are about 1% winners (not even counting commisions.) The losers, as you would imagine, are much bigger. So a "batting average" of 7 wins and 3 losses is completely meaningless as he's "booked" most of the winners on very small gains in order to have a "winner." While the losers can be waited on forever in order not to book them. This produces a terrible return, obviously.
If one did the math for this style of trading you'd probably need to consistently book 7 or 8 winners for every 2 or 3 losers in order to have a tiny positive return. The fact that he's not counting things like commissions, dividends etc on his "winners" and "losers" makes the entire thing all that more embarrassing.
The guy is a fraud and not a good trader, which wouldn't be that big of a deal if he wasn't also the biggest douche in financial media. Being a bad trader wouldn't have sunk him, being a bad trader and pretending he's the best thing in the world to anyone that would dare challenge him (as demonstrated by his silly lawsuit) is ultimately what will bring him down.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536e2ff8ecad04c5047c70c3The Real 007Sat, 10 May 2014 09:56:08 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536e2ff8ecad04c5047c70c3
I quit reading the complaint at 'principle place of business'.
Strayer law degree?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d9b65ecad045974fc37c0Bear BicepsFri, 09 May 2014 23:22:13 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d9b65ecad045974fc37c0
Someone's got to stay home! I stay at home. My wife and I coin flipped and she won, so she kept working. We both are lawyers for the same firm. She makes the cash, and I stay home and provide our kids with proper parenting. In a year I'll go back to the grind, but half of me is not looking forward to it. I kind of like being the home base manager. Besides, my workouts in the afternoon have never been better. I've never been in this great a shape since college.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d96b26da811382afc37bdAtroposFri, 09 May 2014 23:02:10 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d96b26da811382afc37bd
Never knew why "Fast Money" on CNBC had him on in the first place, it was obvious he was an a-hole.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d81c1ecad04942afc37bdNot HedgeyeFri, 09 May 2014 21:32:49 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d81c1ecad04942afc37bd
def a Hedgeye Intern post.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d815beab8eae372fc37c1Not HedgeyeFri, 09 May 2014 21:31:07 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d815beab8eae372fc37c1
KK is a bottom feeding joke; no one takes his "industrial analysis" seriously. Kinder Morgan call made him a renown for the rest of his career as a bottom feeding, puss filled pimple that needs to be popped by real industry professionals.
Sorry Keith, you're gigs up. Hope the SEC gives it to you.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d7ff36bb3f7ee47fc37bdDixie WreckedFri, 09 May 2014 21:25:07 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d7ff36bb3f7ee47fc37bd
that was a well written articlehttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d6e7eecad041263fc37bfCalibrated ConfidenceFri, 09 May 2014 20:10:38 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d6e7eecad041263fc37bf
for anyone interested, I have a shit-ton more on Hedgeye that isn't published here, images included. And for you Keith because I know you love to read about yourself I'll say this: #TimeStamp...next time #Study harder and learn the #Process of real traders you jabroni <a href="http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user54151/imageroot/2014/04/PIC%20-%20Posers%20Fuck%20Off.jpg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user54151/imageroot/2014/04/PIC%20-%20Posers%20Fuck%20Off.jpg</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d477169bedd9640fc37bfHipmoneyFri, 09 May 2014 17:24:01 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d477169bedd9640fc37bf
Haha, I think I know who this is. SDK!!!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d291d6da8119a343e69bfDJ OrrFri, 09 May 2014 15:14:37 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d291d6da8119a343e69bf
Any one who reads any blog, or Twitter feed, about investing that isn't coming from someone who actually invests for a living is subject to cr*p like this. Use Harvest...www.hvst.com. At least you can discuss ideas and thoughts with friends, and even if the ideas or advice you read about ends up being wrong, at least you know who you were in bed with.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d1dfe6bb3f747653e69bdDavid M.Fri, 09 May 2014 14:27:10 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d1dfe6bb3f747653e69bd
They don't make it to trial because they get settled beforehand. There's no criminal investigation here. The man ran a business and that business was hurt by allegations that have not been proven yet, and are not the focus of this lawsuit. Unless Mr. Pirone has the funds or gets the donations to cover what will undoubtedly be an expensive defense, he'll be forced to retract his comments and possibly pay for damages and legal fees.
I don't have a horse in this race so much like you guys I'll sit back and watch. I just feel that Mr. Pirone will end up on the short end of the stick here.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d1af36bb3f7275a3e69c4anonFri, 09 May 2014 14:14:11 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d1af36bb3f7275a3e69c4
nice piece of reporting, either way. BI come a long way since the "xzy company gets peed on" headlines. kudoshttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d150469bedd3c763e69c3 r cohnFri, 09 May 2014 13:48:52 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d150469bedd3c763e69c3
Hedgeye can eliminate all controversy by publishing a CPA audited report of ALL of their recommendations subtracting potential commissions and dividends paid out from potential returns.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d1357eab8ea0d723e69bdLeeGrinsFri, 09 May 2014 13:41:43 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d1357eab8ea0d723e69bd
I go to Twitter for information and the pissing matches, this is a pretty good one going on here. :Dhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d12b4ecad04741a3e69bd r cohnFri, 09 May 2014 13:39:00 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d12b4ecad04741a3e69bd
If that is the case ,the contrary trade sounds like a money makerhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d123aeab8eafc6f3e69bd r cohnFri, 09 May 2014 13:36:58 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d123aeab8eafc6f3e69bd
I know nothing about the 2 parties involved in this lawsuit.But the article is correct ,most such lawsuits never make it to trialhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d11f669beddd9683e69bfDean WormerFri, 09 May 2014 13:35:50 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d11f669beddd9683e69bf
Certainly possible, I have no idea, but front running and scalping is every newsletter's problem.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d10b76bb3f7c3333e69bdKevin KaiserFri, 09 May 2014 13:30:31 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d10b76bb3f7c3333e69bd
Hedge eye is not simply a case of selling snake oil. McCullough employs a team of analysts that manipulate stocks. I'm familiar with Kevin Kaiser who covers energy, but I'm sure there are others. A believe the scheme works whereby Kevin and Hedge Eye tell their institutional clients they will start a short campaign on a stock(KMP/KMI, LINE/LNCO, ARP/ATLS). Institutional clients put on large short positions prior to the announcement. Then Kevin tweets and uses hedge eyes access to the news wires to hit the company every which way on usually factually incorrect or at the very least out of context information. Retail investors see the news on the news wires and panic selling ensues on very little volume. I've now seen this a number of times on the stocks listed above. In the end, the stocks come back as Kevin and Hedge have been factually incorrect on every name. However, its the retail investors that get screwed by selling on the manipulated crash.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0f716da8111a3a3e69c5Stan V.Fri, 09 May 2014 13:25:05 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0f716da8111a3a3e69c5
LOL, wanna bet...it's going to go to trial so he can pay damages to himself? What an idiot. You obviously never took a law class at any level and examined libel vs. public figures, slander or defamation. They don't even want it to go to trial, believe me. There's enough evidence in this article alone to disprove their claims!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0f3cecad043a093e69c7rlmmFri, 09 May 2014 13:24:12 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0f3cecad043a093e69c7
Calling him a "stay-at-home dad" is an obvious attempt by the BI writer here to paint Carmine as the victim -- when he's actually the instigator.
Any Cramer worshipper deserves to get sued -- lawyer up, douche!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0e6eecad04700a3e69c2rlmmFri, 09 May 2014 13:20:46 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0e6eecad04700a3e69c2
And this is obviously written by someone with their nose far up Jim Cramer's arse -- sadder.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0dadeab8eafb5d3e69bfDavid M.Fri, 09 May 2014 13:17:33 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0dadeab8eafb5d3e69bf
Mr. Pirone better be in the process of transferring everything to his wife. This case can go to trial, probably will go to trial and my guess is that McCullough will prove damages. This article and the comments aren't helping Pirone's defense.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0d716da8119a313e69c1SMFFFri, 09 May 2014 13:16:33 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0d716da8119a313e69c1
These Hedgeye guys have done a great job ruining their own reputations and making themselves look like fools. Keith McCullough goes around insulting one person after another....maybe all these people should sue Hedgeyehttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0cb2ecad048c7b3e69bfInvestorBalanceFri, 09 May 2014 13:13:22 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0cb2ecad048c7b3e69bf
This is so obviously written by Hedgeye's Daryl Jones. Sad.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0b6c6da811972e3e69bfDean WormerFri, 09 May 2014 13:07:56 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0b6c6da811972e3e69bf
Sorry but Carmine may be correct but anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes looking at the world of online trading rooms, newsletters, stock tweets etc knows A) most are full of more sh*t than a Christmas goose, B) no one counts taxes. That's your problem. C) no one counts commissions, that's also your problem. D) great day traders do not hang out in these places or talk about their trades and methodologies. Of course you can make more money selling your trade ideas than actually trading, what do you think running a fund is all about, 2 and 20 baby. OPMhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0ad36bb3f7fa233e69bdrlmmFri, 09 May 2014 13:05:23 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d0ad36bb3f7fa233e69bd
Anyone who calls himself "Cramer's Shirt" in homage to Jim Cramer deserves to get sued and worse.
Jim Cramer is a con man and criminal who belongs in prison. Check out DeepCapture.com for the real story on Cramer.
This article is so sympathetic to Carmine it's basically propaganda -- calling him a "stay-at-home dad" is a pretty obvious attempt to paint him as the victim and drum up sympathy, when in reality he's the instigator in the whole thing.
Lawyer up, Carmine, you brought this on yourself, douche! Enjoy the fruits of your Cramer-worship buddy!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d08b76bb3f797193e69bdPaper Tiger BloodFri, 09 May 2014 12:56:23 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d08b76bb3f797193e69bd
Best response to one of the most shortsighted, ignorant comments I've ever seen on the internet. My guess is that Tiger Blood is a zit-faced 17-year-old-know-nothing.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d062ceab8eaea413e69c6SammmyFri, 09 May 2014 12:45:32 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d062ceab8eaea413e69c6
Dying to know who these "institutional subscribers" paying him 6 figures are.
...So that I and everyone I know can stay far away from them.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d04b76da811df0b3e69bdInvestorBalanceFri, 09 May 2014 12:39:19 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d04b76da811df0b3e69bd
This is obviously written by one of Keith's hockey buddies. So transparent and sad.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d045c6da811110a3e69bdInvestorBalanceFri, 09 May 2014 12:37:48 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d045c6da811110a3e69bd
For institutions paying for Hedgeye's work, it's obvious there is too much noise here. Where there is smoke there is fire. Major compliance risk. Who needs to put their investors at risk like that? Stay professional and use your own (or compliance-healthy) work.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d04566da811fe093e69c5joey12buffFri, 09 May 2014 12:37:42 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d04566da811fe093e69c5
Book by its cover? My best friend is a stay at home dad and he rocks somewhere in the range of half a mil annually in his software business. Keep your mouth shut you judgmental prick. Over ten million children are growing up in america without a father...so when you find a father who is doing his job as dad, you should be thankful you insensitive childless wifeless twathttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d02976da811aa053e69c0Dino B.Fri, 09 May 2014 12:30:15 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d02976da811aa053e69c0
Keith McCullough is the guy you hated when you played against him in sports as a kid. But the whole time... you secretly wanted him to be on your team. Incidentally, love him or hate him, his macro calls are second to none.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d026a69bedd752d3e69bdkingnutsFri, 09 May 2014 12:29:30 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d026a69bedd752d3e69bd
"the plaintiff will pay damages to the plaintiff" .... really ? ..... great lawyering therehttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d00dceab8ea6e333e69bdkrypticFri, 09 May 2014 12:22:52 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536d00dceab8ea6e333e69bd
Calls for a SLAP suit here.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536cfeececad041b4b3e69bdBedheadFri, 09 May 2014 12:14:36 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536cfeececad041b4b3e69bd
McCullough is one of the best snake oil salesmen in the world. Fools and their money...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536cfec76da811f96e3e69beTiger BloodFri, 09 May 2014 12:13:59 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/536cfec76da811f96e3e69be
Nothing says 'Winning' like the phrase 'stay-at-home Dad'.