i learned to rock all that stuff into the wind, but it was always an iffy trick... not a dead-certainty. having a Gazelle-speed driver with no stabilizer of any kind can only go so far when it comes to wind. and like the entire internet has said, there needs to be a J-speed driver that fights wind, and EXP is both faster and drastically more overstable.

some courses though, you'd be just fine with J's only. like my old home courses... the Meadow was J-capable. the Hill was J-death, solely because of the wind.

as soon as a worn Gazelle leaves my hand, there's nothing to tell me that it isn't my trusty old $$$ J variants. (for over a year I threw almost all non-distance shots with a single SE JLS, imo right up there with CE QJs in choice performance)

i guess what i found is that it's a witch-hunt to find the $$$$ JLSes that fly just like a standard TB or GZ. the main plus for the J is that if DX is not an option for you, you can trade the wind resistance of a Gazelle for the durability of a different plastic. but then you have to add a mold, or track down some freak J's, just for wind situations.

for what it's worth i didn't drop J's for political reasons. i no longer felt obligated to restrict myself to the brand i had worked for, and my tests with GZ and now Cheetahs were an instant win over the J... and i know J's inside and out, so it was no easy sell. originally got J's to learn the brand, and because access to choicies + staff discount made that a great plan. some of the best J throwers i know just have a lifetime supply due to long-ago staff pricing, and tell me they'd go all Gazelle if they could afford it.

Ted Damson wrote:...there needs to be a J-speed driver that fights wind...

I'd say that's a Discraft X2.

Cheetah and Gazelle too (never thrown an X2, but XL = JLS imo) ... but I meant discs that Millennium can put their name on, which limits the field to Innova hybrids that are too similar to other Innova models be marketed as such.

tangent begin.... if you can make 8 discs out of 2 tops and 4 bottoms, but can only market 6 sufficiently distinctive models out of those 8 combinations, then you can dump the remaining 2 possible models on the other brand, and everything is gravy. even better if you time those releases so that the daughter brand is essentially releasing last year's leftovers, and you always stay on top. look at the progression of speed in the drivers... MILL is always 1-3 years behind. in 2006 they reached Firebird speed and have not gone any further, with Innova 4 speeds ahead of that now.

I threw gazelles for a long time, but I prefer the JLS because of how much more versatile it is over the gazelle. I dont think of the gazelle as very versatile. It goes dead nuts straight with a little bit of fade when new and you can increase the hyzer as it ages for an even straighter flight. The JLS is very similar, but seems better to me on a low line and is overall longer. The JLS rolls better than the gazelle too. The gazelle does shine if there is more than a little wind, but the JLS CAN be thrown well in windy conditions up to a point and a slightly beat gazelle is no better than a JLS into said wind. They are close, but I like the JLS. If you prefer base plastic the gazelle is a super awesome disc.

for an older mold it sure has become quite the striker/boss type disc...

i just always find it funny how we hype a disc up...and how i always try that disc out...

Disc Junkie showed me one a month or so ago and I have been thinking of adding one every since. Been trying to force leopards into my bag for a while, but they just don't do it for me. I love the TL, so if it is a shorter TL i am going to be in love

I threw GZs for a while and just never really clicked with them. I could never seem to get them much further than my rocs and being able to throw them on a lower line was the only benifit. I ended up finding a beat JLS that was a beatiful turnover disc. So. Went out and bought a new one. I found them way more useful than the Gz..holds a line nice, can really crank it on a low line and that pro plastic lasts forever.

If all you ever do is all you've ever done, then all you'll ever get is all you've ever got

A few guys around these parts live by the QJLS or "kewJ-Lis" as they like to call them. They like to throw them by flipping them flat and letting them sail. These guys also don't believe in mid throws longer than 150' so they throw them down to some pretty short throws.