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I agree it's good not to generalize. Also, women join for the female bonding, too. I know the women in my dojo are sticking around because they've made friends, female friends on the mat. I started my Women In Aikido bulletin so that other woman can talk about aikido. (Imagine AikiWeb but just all women in the discussions.) Also please realize, I said "some" men and "some" women join to meet someone of the opposite sex, I did leave my statements open to acknowledge that I am aware that there are "some" men and "some" women who do not join to meet someone of the opposite sex. I have to disagree that men don't join to not meet anyone. It takes two to tango and go out on a date. Someone has to do the asking...and usually it's the guy.

I never really said dating on the mat is a "sin". I just think flirting, especially excessive flirting, on the mat is in bad taste and is disrepectful to those who come to train. It's usually just annoying. What is a problem is when the hormonal driven of us cross the line and forget that our hormones is getting in the way of someone else's training. It's not that hard to put our hormones on hold for one hour until you get off the mat so you can start a conversation with that someone you want to get to know. Usually, the though of meeting a guy doesn't pop up in my mind. I'm usually too focused on how to do the throw on him and could care less about whether he finds me physically attractive.

I'm also aware that the scenario I gave you above that others might respond differently, but since some dojos try to keep the women who have breached their cultural barriers to walk into a dojo, we need to watch out and not let the hormonal among us to cross the line. One person asking this woman out would probably have been no big deal, but she got about 5 invitations after class, her FIRST class, including an invitation to go scuba diving. That's too much.

Now, like I said no one is prohibited from dating another person in the dojo where I train. It happens a lot, and, there are consequences when people split up. Yes, sometimes the guy leaves other times the girl does. Sometimes, it's both or neither. Sometimes they end up married. In the end, how the couple chooses to deal with the break up or relationship on the mat is up to them. We've had quite a few couples meet where I train and all of these scenarios have happened. It's just when the flirting or relationship issues are brought to mat when it annoys people. Should you not date someone at all because someone might get annoyed? No. But should you be aware of how your actions might impact the dojo and be responsible for them when you might cross the line? Yes.

I'm single, too, btw, and yes, it's hard to meet people. I totally sympathize. My best friends I've met have been in aikido, and they are female and male. We seem to have a really good group of high quality people where I train. I haven't met that one person, though. But I'm not really that concerned about that because I'm more concerned about learning my techniques and getting to 1st kyu.

I was just talking to Penny about this whole situation and she said it seems like when people first start, whether male or female, getting used to the whole physical situation of aikido can be challenging. You can get some mixed signals from people when they really are not there. For example, in irimi nage you put your partners head on your chest/ shoulder, but there isn't a romantic intent. However, this would be "romantic" in a romantic situation, but your hormones might respond differently. So getting used to the physicality of it all can be challenging especially when you train with the genders mixed up. It's okay to hold hands, pin me at the shoulder/ chest area, put your head at my shoulder/ chest, but if a person is not used to this kind of physicality it can lead to sexual tension, and getting past that is a challenge (the last part was Penny's point).

I never really though of it that way until now, and not really aware that the sexual tension can come up like that, but I think Penny is right. It's not about who's better -- male or female -- really about being okay with physical contact your not used to experiencing outside of a romantic relationship. It's about getting past that so we can train. It's about getting past that so you can figure out whether she or he really interested in you or are they just a really great training partner? I've discovered people tend toward being really great training partners. If there is something more give it time and it will reveal itself. If it doesn't then you still have a great training partner.

Okay...I'm babbling now... but do you understanding what I'm trying to get at?

Last edited by giriasis : 05-28-2005 at 12:12 PM.

Anne Marie GiriWomen in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.

I agree with keeping things professional and discrete while training. It is important to focus on why you are there and what you want to get out of your training.

I had a relationship with someone at my dojo and it was months before anyone knew about it (that was the way we wanted it). And when it ended it was very difficult, but again, we kept it quiet so as not to disrupt things with only our closest friends knowing about the break up. However, there was definitely a shift in the energy in the dojo and it has been very difficult to maintain our friendship (tho it is getting better) especially when one or the other begins dating again.

I will say that I would like to date someone who is into Aikido, considering I got into the practice for MY benefit and I spend a fair amount of time training, but I would really only consider seeing someone from another dojo so as not have to go through all the stuff I went through before.

Sharing a common love is important, but being able to do it with someone that has the potential to take you to the next level with it can make it an amazing experience.

I don't necessarily want an aikido girlfriend. I want a girlfriend who has interests of her own, that don't involve me. Just as I want to have interests of my own that don't involve her.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."

I met my current boyfriend at the dojo. I was not looking for a romantic relationship at the time. It just sort of happened. We liked throwing each other, so he decided that to get to know me better he'd give me and my bicycle rides home (I was car-less at the time) and that's when a casual friendship started spiraling off into the world of romance. That said, the romance happens off the mat. It's actually very easy to keep flirtation off the mat. Think about it. You and your partner are sweating, panting, and throwing each other. You're barely able to catch each other's names, let alone exchange phone numbers.

My only qualm is what happens if we break up. We've both been in aikido too long to quit and he's not the type to deal well with seeing an ex around.

My other issue is since we've been dating he's not throwing me as hard anymore. And that was one of the things I liked about him. :/

My only qualm is what happens if we break up. We've both been in aikido too long to quit and he's not the type to deal well with seeing an ex around./

Happened here. It sucked a lot. But...I was not about to give up something I loved and started when I was single; so I had to choose...be miserable or focus on the positive energy when I trained Aikido...I chose the latter.

It has been hard, but over time we have learned be around each other and even be friends.

Maturity plays a huge role in that

There are others.

If you two continue on successfully, then it is great that you both can share this passion.

I find this to be an interesting and touchy subject. I started Aikido as a way of building discipline and self confidence, and never considered it a place to find love.

Recently I have started to develop certain feelings for a girl at Aikido, and these feelings grow stronger with time.

At first I enjoyed training with her and I would be in a good mood after training. Now I feel trapped as I see the need to tell her how I feel and get it of my chest, but at the same time I don't want to make her feel uncomfortable.

I am not sure of proper Aikido etiquette regarding the matter and I am afraid of telling anyone at the Dojo about my problem. I feel a bit guilty and ashamed that I let myself get in this situation, but the truth is it just happened.

I need to find a solution soon as I can't sleep some nights and I have lost all my motivation and drive as a result of the situation.

Matthew, how long have you been training? I only ask because you owe it to yourself to develop, which will benefit the development of everyone in the dojo, including this be-witching specimen you speak of. For one, you'll be that much more irresistible once you've hit 4th Kyu. Nothing says Hot-Stuff like nikyo-induced-slapping-of-the-mat.

In all seriousness, there is nothing to be ashamed of. Perfectly natural. At this point it time you find value in aikido. Look, a gal who also values aikido. You share at least one interest, and perhaps for you at this point in your training it is quite a consuming interest.

As far as I know the only aikido etiquette that applies is to separate your natural and acceptable interest in this person from your interest in training, and your interest in the safe, enriching, life-long friend forming practice with everyone you meet, including your crush.

At this time you no doubt want the best for her, but right now all you can bet on is her interest in aikido. Support her interest as everyone else in the dojo are doing already, first as a wholly present individual, and eventually as a compatriot. Over the time that may take, you'll have a more realistic impression of yourself and of her, and you won't regret having taken your time if things do in fact start to click.

So re-direct your infatuation into working 20 minutes after class on ukemi. Hit the gym. Take voice lessons. Pick up gardening. Swing-dancing, whatever, ... Enjoy yourself.

If your aikido obsession encroaches a lot into your everyday life like mine does, it can be a great benefit to have an aikidoka as a partner. I've dated two aikidoka and it's feels 'right' for my partner to share this big part of my life, but I will admit, when things go sour, it is very, very difficult to not let it affect your training. But not impossible. Also, I know a husband-and-wife couple who train together and on the mat, you' wouldn't know they were married at all so it effects no one. So yeah, why not?!

Its how I met my wife!!
At first she was a student just as any other and we happened to meet accidentally in a local watering hole about 2 months later where in fact I knew her brother!! .....Small world eh!
Or did she find out where I watered occasionally......I wonder ?......

All the other students had no idea that we were an item until a year later......

We kept it off the mat and out of the dojo and I did not show her any favoritism......At first she thought she joined the army!!...... She said she found it tough at first (Her Father was a Regimental Sergeant Major!!)
Admittedly she did progress very quickly..... well she was bound to with all the private instruction and her rare ability in being able to pick it up almost straight away..... She got from novice to Shodan in 2 years!! Ni Dan within 8 years British Aikido Association..... she didn't bother much for gradings, much as myself.....
We as a club weren't all that interested in "rank" and the numbers game...... More in the practice!! .........In fact it used to embarrass many of the so called higher dan grades...... My wife won quite a number of enbu demonstration competitions at national events and was well respected by those of "higher level"

I've always felt that any "romance" should be left outside the dojo and the dojo be a place of the "way" as it should be.......

There was the odd romance that sometimes blossomed in the dojo, but they knew full well to keep it "outside" of practice and the dojo.... those that didn't were quietly taken aside and warned that this is not the time and place for such matters and as such did not transgress any further after that.
We were quite strict on that scenario.....
Ie/......Less chat more "do"
We always had the rule to change ones training partner often within a practice session, so "things" were kept at bay..... and you learned tolerance of your fellow human.......
Bullies and know it all's were always quietly admonished or taken outside the dojo for a "chat" or shown the door rapidly according to transgression..... Sometimes just a look said it all and things returned to normal.....

But things change, "political correctness" and litigation now seems to be in sway almost to the point in strangling free speech and common sense.......

I started my training later in life, at 41 years of age. I'd been married for seven years by then.

My wife doesn't train, though she may take it up one day.

Quite frankly I'm glad I'm not a single person training and looking for a mate. My experience has been, at two different dojos, that folks tend to spend alot of time together on and off the mat.

I think it would be difficult to seperate one's feelings if a romance blossomed and then withered in that environment.

But hey...that's me. It took me until I was 34 years old to figure out how to be a good partner in a relationship. And in reality I'm still working on it. Good thing I married an Irish Catholic girl; she won't dump me and that forces me to "train" to a new level all the time.

I have seen great romantic relationships develop at dojos. Certainly there are many partners who train together. I guess like everything else, it's pretty much an individual journey.

I am also lucky enough to be involved with a budo-babe, and it may be a foregone conclusion as to the direction it is heading. The timing is right for something stable to exist. I could have married any of the women I've dated if I had met them at this point in my life.

If this does not compare to your situation (ie, still in college, high-school?) then cool it, Romeo, or be prepared to leave the dojo should things head south.