free-range politics, organic community

I'm giving up talking to those that refuse to hear.

Submitted by LaFeminista on Thu, 08/10/2017 - 3:12pm

I'm also giving up writing for those that refuse to read.

It is incredibly frustrating, three words in and an opinion has already been formed, five words in the talking over has begun. Write more that three lines then the arguments are ignored and conclusions wasted.

It is getting to the point where tweeting is long winded, can our view be expressed in fewer than five words? 20 Characters? God help you if you use a key word, Russia for example.

Any hint that you are not one of "us" then you must be one of "them" the fictive duopoly of the respective political echo chambers. Whatever you do don't insist that there is another way of looking at anything at all, you must conform to the group think, annoy one, annoy all.

The only thing they remember is that you supported neither because you couldn't bring yourself to support either of the disturbing options, the world is not bipolar. I don't have to support "the other" if I find "the other" pretty damn objectionable as well. Just because you refuse to support one doesn't mean that you tacitly support the other, the world is a damn sight more fucking complicated than that. Hell even the reason for objecting to both can be different from one to the other, it does not mean that the objections to both are any less important. You must choose is the biggest pile of bullshit on sale these days, even if it is for the least bloody bad/lesser evil whatever the fuck that means.

Can you tell that I've been in the proximity of partisans? God damn it I should know better than that by now. It just gets me angry and want to say derogatory things knowing all along that I am wasting my breath.

We are "not as bad as" and anyway "it's your fault we lost" are hardly a good starting point for introspection, asking the question "where the fuck did we go wrong" might be a better one.

And that's why the situation was created by massive propaganda campaigns, why the media was consolidated - but what was done can be undone, in many cases, to at least some extent. But does the whole mass of political/corporate/billionaire corruption ever need to come down now!

Can you tell that I've been in the proximity of partisans? God damn it I should know better than that by now. It just gets me angry and want to say derogatory things knowing all along that I am wasting my breath.

We are "not as bad as" and anyway "it's your fault we lost" are hardly a good starting point for introspection, asking the question "where the fuck did we go wrong" might be a better one.

Sigh.

Did you drop by Daily Kos again, LaFeminista?

I stopped by CSPAN2 this morning for their coverage of Netroots Nation 2017. They were covering some sort of panel discussion (my least favorite sort of event for myriad reasons!). I hung for about 15 minutes and still could get no sense what-so-fucking-ever of what the discussion was supposed to be about.

Sounds like the child (NN17) has grown up to become its parent (Daily Kos).

Gak.

up

23 users have voted.

—

"Some members of the government are now investigating opioid pain killers but they are investigating the wrong thing. Despair-masking drugs are not the problem. Despair is."
-- featheredsprite

@thanatokephaloides
I commented on one thing, the horror of nuclear weapons, got attacked on the usual, being a traitor to the chosen one. Sigh

Can you tell that I've been in the proximity of partisans? God damn it I should know better than that by now. It just gets me angry and want to say derogatory things knowing all along that I am wasting my breath.

We are "not as bad as" and anyway "it's your fault we lost" are hardly a good starting point for introspection, asking the question "where the fuck did we go wrong" might be a better one.

Sigh.

Did you drop by Daily Kos again, LaFeminista?

I stopped by CSPAN2 this morning for their coverage of Netroots Nation 2017. They were covering some sort of panel discussion (my least favorite sort of event for myriad reasons!). I hung for about 15 minutes and still could get no sense what-so-fucking-ever of what the discussion was supposed to be about.

Sounds like the child (NN17) has grown up to become its parent (Daily Kos).

Tinfoil territory has a great deal of aluminum, which is associated with Alzheimer's... hmmmmm...

Edit: both sides of the corporate party should be voted out (if there were actual elections, that is,) rather than voted in by anyone to continue to worsen, assuming we all survive until the next election. Continual rewarding of destructive evil is, to say the least, counterproductive and we are already looking at unsurvivable results. Asking for more and worse is possibly as insane and suicidal a reaction as are the actions and attitudes of The Psychopaths That Be, albeit in a different way.

#5.1.1.1.1
The warning I have about this Russia play is that if it does not stick and get rid of Trump they will lose in 2018 and 2020 really badly.

up

8 users have voted.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@LaFeminista
I know that's a shitty word in so many ways, but lately I find myself thinking it every time I see some stupid "liberal" remark like the one referenced above. And I find it terribly sad and ugly that my Republican co-worker, a Trump voter too, now understands and discusses much of just what is wrong with this country. While she listens and we have great talks, some of my more "liberal" friends just get that pained look that says "oh lizzy, just STFU" and then change the subject. I hear you LaFem on being sick to death of talking to those who just refuse to even engage in reality anymore.

#5.1.1.1 I know that's a shitty word in so many ways, but lately I find myself thinking it every time I see some stupid "liberal" remark like the one referenced above. And I find it terribly sad and ugly that my Republican co-worker, a Trump voter too, now understands and discusses much of just what is wrong with this country. While she listens and we have great talks, some of my more "liberal" friends just get that pained look that says "oh lizzy, just STFU" and then change the subject. I hear you LaFem on being sick to death of talking to those who just refuse to even engage in reality anymore.

@LaFeminista
comes to mind. I don't like the names either, and the divisions are the damned problem. But I find it sad that something out of Limbaugh, God help me, comes to mind so readily with some of the stupider ones. I hate Limbaugh with a passion, but I hate these sell out "liberals" even more right now.

And I hear more and more in election discussions about "not angering donors". Their corruption is complete.

#5.1.1.1 I know that's a shitty word in so many ways, but lately I find myself thinking it every time I see some stupid "liberal" remark like the one referenced above. And I find it terribly sad and ugly that my Republican co-worker, a Trump voter too, now understands and discusses much of just what is wrong with this country. While she listens and we have great talks, some of my more "liberal" friends just get that pained look that says "oh lizzy, just STFU" and then change the subject. I hear you LaFem on being sick to death of talking to those who just refuse to even engage in reality anymore.

You know, ordinarily I might point out how ironic it is that before the election some people on the left were accusing Hillary Clinton of being such a warhawk but what’s the point?

Ugh...yeah? I mean, that is true. She is a proud warmonger, unrepentant of her actions unless there is a camera where she can say she "made a mistake".

It continues to amaze me that these people don't get it. They are salivating at a chance for war with Russia. With Russia. Nuclear superpower. And yet, they then dare to say worry about North Korea nukes and we will all die by nukes because of it. How do you block all critical thought to completely focus on one but yet no see the glaring obvious thing over here.

You can't worry about North Korea for their nukes while simultaneously cheering for war with Russia while they have nukes. How folks can be so blind I don't get it.

You know, ordinarily I might point out how ironic it is that before the election some people on the left were accusing Hillary Clinton of being such a warhawk but what’s the point?

Ugh...yeah? I mean, that is true. She is a proud warmonger, unrepentant of her actions unless there is a camera where she can say she "made a mistake".

It continues to amaze me that these people don't get it. They are salivating at a chance for war with Russia. With Russia. Nuclear superpower. And yet, they then dare to say worry about North Korea nukes and we will all die by nukes because of it. How do you block all critical thought to completely focus on one but yet no see the glaring obvious thing over here.

You can't worry about North Korea for their nukes while simultaneously cheering for war with Russia while they have nukes. How folks can be so blind I don't get it.

@thanatokephaloides
like that for a few years now. Hell, I remember when sponsors served a light breakfast: pastry and coffee, and boxed lunch: sammich, apple, juice. Now, the Corporate Left has taken over and it looks and feels like any convention /conference, the magic gone. We went this year with a minimum of staff going - just one - as we expect to morph to much smaller two-day quarterly events this year and next.

Can you tell that I've been in the proximity of partisans? God damn it I should know better than that by now. It just gets me angry and want to say derogatory things knowing all along that I am wasting my breath.

We are "not as bad as" and anyway "it's your fault we lost" are hardly a good starting point for introspection, asking the question "where the fuck did we go wrong" might be a better one.

Sigh.

Did you drop by Daily Kos again, LaFeminista?

I stopped by CSPAN2 this morning for their coverage of Netroots Nation 2017. They were covering some sort of panel discussion (my least favorite sort of event for myriad reasons!). I hung for about 15 minutes and still could get no sense what-so-fucking-ever of what the discussion was supposed to be about.

Sounds like the child (NN17) has grown up to become its parent (Daily Kos).

Gak.

up

8 users have voted.

—

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@LaFeminista
started singing with it (I don't sing, having one note, which is fine for Kenny Rogers and Kris Kristopher son songs only). She commented it sounds like today.
With choking voice I said in 50 effin' years we've gotten nowhere.

#7.1 started singing with it (I don't sing, having one note, which is fine for Kenny Rogers and Kris Kristopher son songs only). She commented it sounds like today.
With choking voice I said in 50 effin' years we've gotten nowhere.

#7.1 started singing with it (I don't sing, having one note, which is fine for Kenny Rogers and Kris Kristopher son songs only). She commented it sounds like today.
With choking voice I said in 50 effin' years we've gotten nowhere.

up

8 users have voted.

—

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

DailyKos/Hillary people are stupid and complient. Trump people are crazy and out-of-control. Both think they can badger non-partisans non-participants and Independents into being one of them. Fat chance.

Is that it appears that we are at the point where almost half the people are no longer buying into the BS duopoly that they have been force fed for generation upon generation.

Maybe when we reach the point where 60% of the people feel that neither party has any interest, or business, in representing us we will finally be able to throw off the shackles of partisanship.

Not that my level of hope is particularly high, just that it still hasn't been completely snuffed out.

That's the optimist in me.

The realist side of me fears that greed, ignorance and apathy will ultimately prevail.

A great philosopher once stated, "Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet.

DailyKos/Hillary people are stupid and complient. Trump people are crazy and out-of-control. Both think they can badger non-partisans non-participants and Independents into being one of them. Fat chance.

up

3 users have voted.

—

"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

I killed my TV years ago.
Therefore, I find that right wingers are seldom as evil as portrayed, and corporate slime are FAR more evil than the worst dystopia they can come up with.

I do have one extremely unpopular opinion that I will share regarding wars:
I believe strongly that anyone who has no experience of the horrors of war should NOT be allowed to start one, suggest one, or vote on one.

up

23 users have voted.

—

You can't expect to wield Supreme Military power, just cause some corporate tosser lobbed a contract at you!

I killed my TV years ago.
Therefore, I find that right wingers are seldom as evil as portrayed, and corporate slime are FAR more evil than the worst dystopia they can come up with.

I do have one extremely unpopular opinion that I will share regarding wars:
I believe strongly that anyone who has no experience of the horrors of war should NOT be allowed to start one, suggest one, or vote on one.

I killed my TV years ago.
Therefore, I find that right wingers are seldom as evil as portrayed, and corporate slime are FAR more evil than the worst dystopia they can come up with.

I do have one extremely unpopular opinion that I will share regarding wars:
I believe strongly that anyone who has no experience of the horrors of war should NOT be allowed to start one, suggest one, or vote on one.

up

13 users have voted.

—

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Like Perry Mason and Remington Steele. Saw MacGyver for the first time. Better than the boring crap that is "new".

I killed my TV years ago.
Therefore, I find that right wingers are seldom as evil as portrayed, and corporate slime are FAR more evil than the worst dystopia they can come up with.

I do have one extremely unpopular opinion that I will share regarding wars:
I believe strongly that anyone who has no experience of the horrors of war should NOT be allowed to start one, suggest one, or vote on one.

I will never "vote BLUE no matter who" again!And I dont give 2 shits what anybody says I dont feel at all responsible for who ended up in the oval office.Not my fault they ran a candidate that was HATED by most and could not beat a candidate with the worst favorably rating of all time.
The corruption of the DNC in this election was a real eye opener for me,after reading the reporting of the trail against the DNC in Fla it has reassured me I made the correct choice voting for Stein.Finding out that Hellery was picked by the DNC in 2015 to be their candidate and that the DNC turned over all money raised to the control of the Clinton camp
and they would use it to bribe superdelegates in each state was astounding.The more I read the angrier and sickened I became.I was a hardcore Democrat for 40 years,I gave of my time and money,I made phone calls knocked on doors,As a union member every hour I worked for 40 years the DNC got a piece of my wages due to the PAC fund I had no choice to refuse.This was MY PARTY!I thought only the GOP was this crooked.Man what a marroon I was.But NO MORE!I Denexited shortly after "little hitler Marco" made his March massacre.That little prick is really full of himself,Fuck his rink a dink propaganda site do yourself a favor dont go back I havent since 4/16 and I sleep well at nite.
Sad thing is the DNC aint learned a thing,they refuse to come clean on the corruption of the primary's they have already picked their candidate for 2020 get ready for Senator Harris from CA,She has met with Hillarys wall st donors and they have gave her the nod I dont know why they bother with the sham of holding primarys for 2020 the partys masters have spoken

I will never "vote BLUE no matter who" again!And I dont give 2 shits what anybody says I dont feel at all responsible for who ended up in the oval office.Not my fault they ran a candidate that was HATED by most and could not beat a candidate with the worst favorably rating of all time.
The corruption of the DNC in this election was a real eye opener for me,after reading the reporting of the trail against the DNC in Fla it has reassured me I made the correct choice voting for Stein.Finding out that Hellery was picked by the DNC in 2015 to be their candidate and that the DNC turned over all money raised to the control of the Clinton camp
and they would use it to bribe superdelegates in each state was astounding.The more I read the angrier and sickened I became.I was a hardcore Democrat for 40 years,I gave of my time and money,I made phone calls knocked on doors,As a union member every hour I worked for 40 years the DNC got a piece of my wages due to the PAC fund I had no choice to refuse.This was MY PARTY!I thought only the GOP was this crooked.Man what a marroon I was.But NO MORE!I Denexited shortly after "little hitler Marco" made his March massacre.That little prick is really full of himself,Fuck his rink a dink propaganda site do yourself a favor dont go back I havent since 4/16 and I sleep well at nite.
Sad thing is the DNC aint learned a thing,they refuse to come clean on the corruption of the primary's they have already picked their candidate for 2020 get ready for Senator Harris from CA,She has met with Hillarys wall st donors and they have gave her the nod I dont know why they bother with the sham of holding primarys for 2020 the partys masters have spoken

@LaFeminista
This is what's confusing about this site, C99. Most here seem to be straddling the fence, wanting or wishing the democratic party would do this or that. If they would only back things up with their "actions", some here would vote for them again. Or if they ran better "progressives", or elected the right leadership, got rid of Pelosi, nominated Bernie or Tulsi, etc.

When enough people realize it simply is not going to change, then maybe we can make some progress. To me, the democratic party is my enemy, the opposition, so I could care less what their DNC is doing or is going to do. In fact, the more fucked up they get the better. Bring on the revolution.

@Big Al
shift Al, it takes a while to give up what you know for the totally unknown. I think we're all working on it! Old habits die hard, like saying "God help us" with the insanity going on now - I say it all the time and yet I firmly do not believe in God. I guess I wish to hell there really was one who could do something but we are on our own, we always have been and we always will be. IMHO.

#11.1 This is what's confusing about this site, C99. Most here seem to be straddling the fence, wanting or wishing the democratic party would do this or that. If they would only back things up with their "actions", some here would vote for them again. Or if they ran better "progressives", or elected the right leadership, got rid of Pelosi, nominated Bernie or Tulsi, etc.

When enough people realize it simply is not going to change, then maybe we can make some progress. To me, the democratic party is my enemy, the opposition, so I could care less what their DNC is doing or is going to do. In fact, the more fucked up they get the better. Bring on the revolution.

@lizzyh7
I suppose I'm just a little impatient because of the pending end of the world, things like that. But imo people can't have it both ways (legitimately). They can't want the DNC to elect the right leadership and oppose the party and duopoly. Or they can't vote for some democrats who fit their bill, like supporting single payer, and oppose the democratic party and the duopoly. Not under the agenda of literally taking down this duopoly.

I think the paradigm shift needed is the realization that we really are at revolution time in this country. That's hard to imagine and most people simply can't. But I'm seeing more and more who are including many alternative media writers and blogs.

I'm not trying to push the agenda of this blog but I am where I am and there are opposing focuses here that are getting harder to reconcile for me. Which is why I brought it up.

#11.1.1 shift Al, it takes a while to give up what you know for the totally unknown. I think we're all working on it! Old habits die hard, like saying "God help us" with the insanity going on now - I say it all the time and yet I firmly do not believe in God. I guess I wish to hell there really was one who could do something but we are on our own, we always have been and we always will be. IMHO.

#11.1.1.1 I suppose I'm just a little impatient because of the pending end of the world, things like that. But imo people can't have it both ways (legitimately). They can't want the DNC to elect the right leadership and oppose the party and duopoly. Or they can't vote for some democrats who fit their bill, like supporting single payer, and oppose the democratic party and the duopoly. Not under the agenda of literally taking down this duopoly.

I think the paradigm shift needed is the realization that we really are at revolution time in this country. That's hard to imagine and most people simply can't. But I'm seeing more and more who are including many alternative media writers and blogs.

I'm not trying to push the agenda of this blog but I am where I am and there are opposing focuses here that are getting harder to reconcile for me. Which is why I brought it up.

Something I learned on a personal level I think holds true for societal changes too: resistance to change is the default; people prefer predictable patterns and stability over unknown risks. Even when the current pattern isn't great or even good, people resist change.

Looking at how to overcome this, I learned a simple formula: people become ready and willing to make a big, difficult and scary change only when the pain of not changing becomes stronger than the fear of the unknown. Then the person becomes willing to jump, when the current pattern either falls apart, or becomes too painful and is impossible to deal with. As a society we have a similar situation. People aren't happy, it's not good, but the resistance to real change, such as overturning the two-party system and opposing both, is too strong. It's familiar, ingrained, and "working" for a lot of people still. The pain of not changing is kept just under the level that would push us over that line. So far.

Elections and the political process, along with the infotainment industry, are designed and working together to accomplish this, and prevent that tipping point from happening.

Falling back into the pattern of thinking about how to elect better democrats or whatever is like the soft comfy bed of home. Never mind the broken windows and crumbling walls, we can't fix those right now, but really, things aren't so bad... and maybe someday this election thing will work and we'll get new leaders who will fix things up. I fall into that sometimes too, even though I don't really believe it anymore.

It's a very deep rut. I don't see that changing anytime soon. But I could be wrong. The pain is growing and unrest is brewing, at least.

#11.1.1.1 I suppose I'm just a little impatient because of the pending end of the world, things like that. But imo people can't have it both ways (legitimately). They can't want the DNC to elect the right leadership and oppose the party and duopoly. Or they can't vote for some democrats who fit their bill, like supporting single payer, and oppose the democratic party and the duopoly. Not under the agenda of literally taking down this duopoly.

I think the paradigm shift needed is the realization that we really are at revolution time in this country. That's hard to imagine and most people simply can't. But I'm seeing more and more who are including many alternative media writers and blogs.

I'm not trying to push the agenda of this blog but I am where I am and there are opposing focuses here that are getting harder to reconcile for me. Which is why I brought it up.

#11.1 This is what's confusing about this site, C99. Most here seem to be straddling the fence, wanting or wishing the democratic party would do this or that. If they would only back things up with their "actions", some here would vote for them again. Or if they ran better "progressives", or elected the right leadership, got rid of Pelosi, nominated Bernie or Tulsi, etc.

When enough people realize it simply is not going to change, then maybe we can make some progress. To me, the democratic party is my enemy, the opposition, so I could care less what their DNC is doing or is going to do. In fact, the more fucked up they get the better. Bring on the revolution.

up

7 users have voted.

—

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

@divineorder
Hope the same for you. I'm beating the heat by hauling 8 yards of gravel to my back yard for a project. Thanks for the song. Just got done showing my daughter and her friend a video of Monty Python's Always look on the bright side of life. They were a little down and I told them, "hey, these guys were on crucifixes".
Peace to you too.

#11.1.1.2 Hope the same for you. I'm beating the heat by hauling 8 yards of gravel to my back yard for a project. Thanks for the song. Just got done showing my daughter and her friend a video of Monty Python's Always look on the bright side of life. They were a little down and I told them, "hey, these guys were on crucifixes".
Peace to you too.

up

8 users have voted.

—

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

@Big Al
by an Argentine Exocet missile, at some point stood on the deck singing ALotBSoL while waiting to be evacuated from the sinking vessel. (they had a lot of time -- it took the Sheffield several days to go under).

#11.1.1.2 Hope the same for you. I'm beating the heat by hauling 8 yards of gravel to my back yard for a project. Thanks for the song. Just got done showing my daughter and her friend a video of Monty Python's Always look on the bright side of life. They were a little down and I told them, "hey, these guys were on crucifixes".
Peace to you too.

#11.1 This is what's confusing about this site, C99. Most here seem to be straddling the fence, wanting or wishing the democratic party would do this or that. If they would only back things up with their "actions", some here would vote for them again. Or if they ran better "progressives", or elected the right leadership, got rid of Pelosi, nominated Bernie or Tulsi, etc.

When enough people realize it simply is not going to change, then maybe we can make some progress. To me, the democratic party is my enemy, the opposition, so I could care less what their DNC is doing or is going to do. In fact, the more fucked up they get the better. Bring on the revolution.

I will never "vote BLUE no matter who" again!And I dont give 2 shits what anybody says I dont feel at all responsible for who ended up in the oval office.Not my fault they ran a candidate that was HATED by most and could not beat a candidate with the worst favorably rating of all time.
The corruption of the DNC in this election was a real eye opener for me,after reading the reporting of the trail against the DNC in Fla it has reassured me I made the correct choice voting for Stein.Finding out that Hellery was picked by the DNC in 2015 to be their candidate and that the DNC turned over all money raised to the control of the Clinton camp
and they would use it to bribe superdelegates in each state was astounding.The more I read the angrier and sickened I became.I was a hardcore Democrat for 40 years,I gave of my time and money,I made phone calls knocked on doors,As a union member every hour I worked for 40 years the DNC got a piece of my wages due to the PAC fund I had no choice to refuse.This was MY PARTY!I thought only the GOP was this crooked.Man what a marroon I was.But NO MORE!I Denexited shortly after "little hitler Marco" made his March massacre.That little prick is really full of himself,Fuck his rink a dink propaganda site do yourself a favor dont go back I havent since 4/16 and I sleep well at nite.
Sad thing is the DNC aint learned a thing,they refuse to come clean on the corruption of the primary's they have already picked their candidate for 2020 get ready for Senator Harris from CA,She has met with Hillarys wall st donors and they have gave her the nod I dont know why they bother with the sham of holding primarys for 2020 the partys masters have spoken

when you stepped into that cesspool over there. I've come to the conclusion that they aren't going to change, ever. It's bizarre really, the bubble that some live in. Last year they were so smug, "we don't even need your vote", "just wait and see what a landslide we'll have", and then they were so sanctimonious and critical. There was no big tent, just taunts, insults and vilification.

That's the thing that still amazes me about their bizarre worldview. They told us to go away, that we are not needed or wanted. Then, when they lose, they start screaming, it's because you went away and didn't give us your unwanted and unneeded votes! Do they ever even stop for a second and think about how ridiculous that is? Evidently not.

when you stepped into that cesspool over there. I've come to the conclusion that they aren't going to change, ever. It's bizarre really, the bubble that some live in. Last year they were so smug, "we don't even need your vote", "just wait and see what a landslide we'll have", and then they were so sanctimonious and critical. There was no big tent, just taunts, insults and vilification.

And people wonder why I think this is being engineered by propagandists with morally repulsive aims.

My remnant of duopolistic thinking: horror at the fact that Hillary supporters, many of whom are or were liberals, many of whom have always prided themselves on being the rational half of national discourse, many of whom have too much education to have an excuse to fall for this shit, are acting like Bush supporters after 9/11.

up

14 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q