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Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by MwynForever

Really they will be wasting their time. They would have to pay someone to play their character forever. Remember, gear doesn't matter. Everyone top level will have the same basic armor stat as you at least in whatever proffession you happen to be in. Wherever you go in the game, you will be scaled down. So you won't be able to go around easily and kill things in the beginner areas with the ease you would be able to in other games. (this will make farming gold for gold farmers harder too :P ) SO now you have payed someone to level your character to 80 and you are stuck with a character you don't know how to play at ALL. You can't go anywhere without dying because you don't know what to do with your skills, you feel pretty lame. Same again for pvp. Don't forget you can join pvp at the very beginning of the game and be scaled up. I can promise you now that SOMEONE with a very low level toon who knows how to play will at some point join in pvp, get scaled up and beat the crap out of your payed for leveling service toon all the time HE is wearing crappy low level gear because just such a senario is possible in GW2. Now you will feel like a complete tool for paying a gold/leveling farmer right?

P.S. When I say YOU I don't mean you. I have come to think you are a pretty cool dude Madimorga so don't take it personal :D

Actually, I figure letting someone play your character will still be frowned on. I was thinking about dungeon parties, pvp team fills, and maybe WvWvW mercs (for real, I could see this happening from time to time during off hours), plus any items that are worth having while leveling but that do not drop frequently (if such will exist).

I don't take it personally, though, I knew you were speaking in general. Even though you have made an incorrect assumption about my gender!

Apologies! There are few of us lady gamers I figured it was safer to say dude :P

how do you sell gems for dollars.. you cant sell them back to anet, and if your gonna buy gems why not just buy from anet, why trust a gold seller

Because they will be cheaper.

Never underestimate what people will do to save a dollar.

Third party sellers will pop up selling gems just like third party sellers exist now selling gold.

The point of the gold<->gem transfer being player-controlled is that the exchange rate matches the comparitive value of the two different currencies. It will self-adjust to current values, so if gold-sellers start undercutting the in-game rate, the value of gold decreases, and the exchange rate adjusts to the new value. Essentially, it's impossible for gold sellers to undercut and maintain a stable market- the only effect that they can have is to drive the value of gold down to the expense that is required to upkeep their farming operation.

Assuming ArenaNet also uses regular means to fight gold sellers (account bans, etc), which they're already doing in GW1, and NCSoft is doing for their other MMO's, I can't see any means for goldselling to be a profitable business for GW2.

As for P2W, I've always known that in F2P games as selling items or buffs in the cash shop that are better than what you can get normally by playing the game. Paying $ to buy gold from other players to buy gear that other players acquired normally in-game and are selling on the auction house seems the opposite concept. All of the money and/or stuff from the auctionhouse was made/earned by players normally, and the cash shop person can trade cash shop perks to those players in return. This is the opposite of what I encounter in, for example, Wakfu, where you can buy better weapons from the cash shop than you can get normally in-game (and then use those weapons to PK other players)- which is P2W.

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Well this is just one mor reason for me to stick with SWTOR. Bioware is clearly a supperior game company and they make better games.

At least they don't pull any of this shady microtransaction stuff. You pay for the game and your sub and you get access to their games. No strings attached and no shady business. You just lost a potential customer Arenanet. I'll stick with Bioware- an honest company- thank you very much.

lmao. Really thats what you come up with

Yeah I think he is just a troll fanboy. Bioware made a game that is so lacking in many areas and this is his response.

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I really didn't mind the system in STO. It gave me the opportunity to buy RMT items without paying RM. This system sounds similar. Unsure what the problem is. If anything the people who aren't paying gain the biggest advantage from paying players because paying players will always have a few spare bits to throw away after purchase. This ultimately gives me *the non paying player* a chance to buy RMT items.

Conversely I do see the problem of using RMT to buy gold. Although I think people will be able to buy gold I don't think gold can buy the best items. One thing we've overlooked is the Karma currency. Currently we know it is for NPC item vendors. I have a feeling that karma is what buys the best in game items. Not gold or Gems.

Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

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So you can purchase gems with money, that can be traded for gold in game. If I'm reading this correctly, this gives advantage to players who spend real money as opposed to those who don't.

you can buy large quanties of gems and trade them for gold with wich you can buy the in game items - in my mind that is an unfair advantage. I took advantage of it in EVE when I had some money to buy plex - bougth 2 plex for $35 from EVE and them sold them in EVE for 700 million isk . At the time I did that I only had earned $20 million isk. Suddenly I was able to afford a top of the line Exhumer and outfit it. Just saying - those with money will be able to buy more things.

Such is the way of life.

But not necessarily the way of gaming. The developers actually have a choice about whether to make economic leverage a part of their game mechanics or not.

In EVE and GW2 those with more money will have the advantage of leveraging that. In RIFT I don't have that option. I must game for what I want.

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Is everyone retarded?

You either spend time or money to get anything in the game, including things like renames and other stuff. You can get everything for free after buying the box game. I mean seriously, why is everyone so butthurt. Who cares if Darklord55 got his max items within 2 days while Ruffles24 spent a month getting it. It doesn't affect you. Get over it. I don't even even know why I'm posting this. 99% of the people here are too ignorant to understand such a simple concept.

If it's not far that some random guy has more money to waste than you, then how the hell is it far that you have more time to waste than him.

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Originally posted by jinxxed0

Is everyone retarded?

You either spend time or money to get anything in the game, including things like renames and other stuff. You can get everything for free after buying the box game. I mean seriously, why is everyone so butthurt. Who cares if Darklord55 got his max items within 2 days while Ruffles24 spent a month getting it. It doesn't affect you. Get over it. I don't even even know why I'm posting this. 99% of the people here are too ignorant to understand such a simple concept.

If it's not far that some random guy has more money to waste than you, then how the hell is it far that you have more time to waste than him.

I think most people underestimate how many mmo players actually buy in game currency with real money.

Its exactly the same in other games. Except maybe swtor because money has no value there.

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But not necessarily the way of gaming. The developers actually have a choice about whether to make economic leverage a part of their game mechanics or not.

In EVE and GW2 those with more money will have the advantage of leveraging that. In RIFT I don't have that option. I must game for what I want.

I was only speaking toward his last sentence (which I should have highlighted). "Just saying - those with money will be able to buy more things."

Yes there is a leverage in EVE, but in EVE ( an example we've seen in action) that leverage is only in terms of risk, IE what a player can risk. The advantage is disposability. It's also offset per capita by the fact that the system opens itself up to numerous players, meaning Corp A has people employing that advantage and so does Corp B. With the nature of a game like EVE there's too much that effects a victory to ensure a victory by such means. It can effect first strike capability that's for sure, even then that first strike could still fail due to the emergent nature of EVE and massive PVP in general.

Does more siege equipment ensure a victory? Who knows, until we do it's hard to say whether it will be an issue or not. It's certainly an area A-net and players should monitor during testing

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

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So you can purchase gems with money, that can be traded for gold in game. If I'm reading this correctly, this gives advantage to players who spend real money as opposed to those who don't.

you can buy large quanties of gems and trade them for gold with wich you can buy the in game items - in my mind that is an unfair advantage. I took advantage of it in EVE when I had some money to buy plex - bougth 2 plex for $35 from EVE and them sold them in EVE for 700 million isk . At the time I did that I only had earned $20 million isk. Suddenly I was able to afford a top of the line Exhumer and outfit it. Just saying - those with money will be able to buy more things.

Such is the way of life.

But not necessarily the way of gaming. The developers actually have a choice about whether to make economic leverage a part of their game mechanics or not.

In EVE and GW2 those with more money will have the advantage of leveraging that. In RIFT I don't have that option. I must game for what I want.

While I agree with yout, I'd like to point out that every MMO has gold farmers. So, really, that option is available to people whether it is built into the system or not. Yes, I can buy gold in Rift, too. However, in Rift, the usefulness of the tradable currency is diminished by the other forms that must be earned. GW2 also as a similar system in place. I don't think the decision to make gems tradable for gold is game-breaking.

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And all of a sudden the forums exploded. I don't really like it, it is way too similar to Diablo 3's Auction House.

Edit to the poster above me: But doesn't a system like this allow players to gain power by spending Real Money? Is this a problem in EvE?

As Kuppa just said, you can only buy vanity items in the cash shop. In D3, you can buy gear that gives you a statitical advantage over other players. That is a HUGE difference, so they really arn't the same. All this does is allow playares who devote more time to playing GW2 to use ingame currency for cash shop vanity items rather than using real money.

But what if someone would buy hundreds of Gems for example and offer to sell them to others for gold, couldn't that potentially give him an enormous advantage over others in terms of in-game wealth?

Well if currency in GW2 like any other game then gold is usless anyway cause everything uses no trable currency for anything acualy good

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But not necessarily the way of gaming. The developers actually have a choice about whether to make economic leverage a part of their game mechanics or not.

In EVE and GW2 those with more money will have the advantage of leveraging that. In RIFT I don't have that option. I must game for what I want.

I was only speaking toward his last sentence (which I should have highlighted). "Just saying - those with money will be able to buy more things."

Yes there is a leverage in EVE, but in EVE ( an example we've seen in action) that leverage is only in terms of risk, IE what a player can risk. The advantage is disposability. It's also offset per capita by the fact that the system opens itself up to numerous players, meaning Corp A has people employing that advantage and so does Corp B. With the nature of a game like EVE there's too much that effects a victory to ensure a victory by such means. It can effect first strike capability that's for sure, even then that first strike could still fail due to the emergent nature of EVE and massive PVP in general.

Does more siege equipment ensure a victory? Who knows, until we do it's hard to say whether it will be an issue or not. It's certainly an area A-net and players should monitor during testing

This is in response to Blognorg too. I just can't figure out how to reference both posts.

I do understand I was over-simplifying and that you weren't necessarily asserting they don't have a choice. I've seen that similar sentiment stated a few times in these discussions and it seems to have a tone of helpless fatalism.

Why have we reviled PWI and Frogster for so long for similar practices yet now it's inevitible and acceptable? I can't think of any cash shop game where some sort of advantage wasn't sold in the store. Even if we could come up with one or two that don't, compare that to the slew of others that do. Why should I think that advantage items won't be part of the store. Why will that be okay in this game but isn't in others?

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Folks who go completely haywire over that blogpost have never read anything about Guild Wars ( or Guild Wars 2 ) ,let alone actually played it .Everyone is treating the entire idea of microtransactions and thinking of this game ( or its predecessor) as they would treat any other game they know . BUT there was and is a huge difference with other major titles we all know and played : Guid Wars isn't based on - nor will it ever be - GEAR-BASED progression .At level cap you never had ( and from what I have read the same will be the case in GW 2 ) a goal to get your next über-item in terms of stats . What you did have was estethics ( great looking armor or weapon ,pets,costumes etc.) which you could buy in the store . Never in the history of the game have those items impacted the gameplay in general and most definitely not progression .

Folks are so used to the gear-grind which is present in basically every other MMO ,they cannot imagine a game which isn't based on the "grind 'till you drop" principle .In most of those games the progression depends on the gear you happen to have: you can't reach levelcap/endcontent unless you get the next tier in your gear (usually by raiding or running dungeons 50,000 times ) . Guild wars has always been about how skilled you were as a player ,the gear you had was basically irrelevant apart from how it looked .The developers would never make the fatal mistake of turning this sequel into another gear-grinder .Nothing at all from what I have read or seen indicates GW 2 will rely on gear-grind (or even on gear progression like in traditional MMO's ) ...in fact : they have indicated repeatedly there will be zero raids .

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Originally posted by Torvaldr

This is in response to Blognorg too. I just can't figure out how to reference both posts.

I do understand I was over-simplifying and that you weren't necessarily asserting they don't have a choice. I've seen that similar sentiment stated a few times in these discussions and it seems to have a tone of helpless fatalism.

Why have we reviled PWI and Frogster for so long for similar practices yet now it's inevitible and acceptable? I can't think of any cash shop game where some sort of advantage wasn't sold in the store. Even if we could come up with one or two that don't, compare that to the slew of others that do. Why should I think that advantage items won't be part of the store. Why will that be okay in this game but isn't in others?

Personally I've never given PWI or Frogster much thought, not sure I've even ever tried any of either companies games. So I can't relate to reviling them.

You can think what you want. I never said selling items that out of the box give an advantage is okay. It's definitely not something I would support.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

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This is in response to Blognorg too. I just can't figure out how to reference both posts.

I do understand I was over-simplifying and that you weren't necessarily asserting they don't have a choice. I've seen that similar sentiment stated a few times in these discussions and it seems to have a tone of helpless fatalism.

Why have we reviled PWI and Frogster for so long for similar practices yet now it's inevitible and acceptable? I can't think of any cash shop game where some sort of advantage wasn't sold in the store. Even if we could come up with one or two that don't, compare that to the slew of others that do. Why should I think that advantage items won't be part of the store. Why will that be okay in this game but isn't in others?

Personally I've never given PWI or Frogster much thought, not sure I've even ever tried any of either companies games. So I can't relate to reviling them.

You can think what you want. I never said selling items that out of the box give an advantage is okay. It's definitely not something I would support.

but that isn't the case with GW (2) because its progression isn't gear based .That's the basic problem with the entire debate about this feature : folks are assuming-wrongly - you need gear X or weapon Y to gain an advantage or progress . That hasn´t been the case for GW 1 and from all articles I have read won´t be the case either in GW 2 .

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If it works the way it is described it is fine. Time is money. Some people have more time, others have more money. Both get access to the same items. I see no problems. It is a game not an alternate reality. Instead of spending 5 hours grinding for $5 worth of ingame items go get a part time job or sit on the corner for 30min begging for change. You will get more value for your time, can buy the item you want, and then pocket the rest to eat something more than ramen noodles. If someone buying an item with money offends you, take a step back and go get some therapy.

Bottom line is this type of system is fair and only offends people who dont even understand what they are upset about or people who dont like to live in the real world.