USP Cissus vs Bulk Cissus

i thought thr difference was USP's extract for Ketosterones was 6% and Symmetry was like 10%(I'm probaly off by 1 % give or take) ....while the bulk everyone else has is 4%....just take more of the bulk

i thought thr difference was USP's extract for Ketosterones was 6% and Symmetry was like 10%(I'm probaly off by 1 % give or take) ....while the bulk everyone else has is 4%....just take more of the bulk

Is the (supposed) anabolic advantage of USP's specifically because of the ketosterones? Wouldnt you be better of just taking MORE of the cheaper bulk extraction anyway? It's cost effective and you get more Cissus in the end. I hardly see how a slightly better extraction trumps literally doubling the dose.

I understand the extraction is superior, but HOW much of a real world advantage does this give us? How "anabolic" are we talking here?

Someone lay it down no BS. Spare us the marketing...

I know USP Cissus RX is a fantastic product. Cissus in general is great. I was taking high dose bulk cissus (the first run that was said to be exactly like USP's from Nutra) I felt dramatic decreases in pain/weakness in a minor A/C shoulder joint injury that I have had for years. Not even cortisone injections seemed to have the lasting effect that cissus did. When we went over the Xrays, the doc showed me clear signs of bone spurs and damage at the joint due to friction. Rather than masking the injury, Cissus seemed to truly help heal the joint/tendon pain I was experiencing in the shoulder. It doesnt seem to "catch" as much. Obviously I attribute some of this to slowly learning how to workout smarter to avoid it. It's been a month since I have taken anymore Cissus and I'm still pain free. Cortisone never did that for me.

Is the (supposed) anabolic advantage of USP's specifically because of the ketosterones? Wouldnt you be better of just taking MORE of the cheaper bulk extraction anyway? It's cost effective and you get more Cissus in the end. I hardly see how a slightly better extraction trumps literally doubling the dose.

I understand the extraction is superior, but HOW much of a real world advantage does this give us? How "anabolic" are we talking here?

Someone lay it down no BS. Spare us the marketing...

I'm not sure where I was marketing anything, or addressing the anabolic activity of our Cissus compared to a bulk Cissus product, but now that you have brought it up I will.

The real world advantage as you eloquently put it lies in the extraction itself. If it is not the same ketosterones than the same effect will not be reached irregardless of your dosage. If it is say half of the same extraction then yes doubling the dose will give you the same benefit.

You are right, you do not see how a slightly better extraction would 'trump literally double the dose'. As I have stated, without the same ketosterones then the same benefit would not be reached.

I'm not sure where I was marketing anything, or addressing the anabolic activity of our Cissus compared to a bulk Cissus product, but now that you have brought it up I will.

The real world advantage as you eloquently put it lies in the extraction itself. If it is not the same ketosterones than the same effect will not be reached irregardless of your dosage. If it is say half of the same extraction then yes doubling the dose will give you the same benefit.

You are right, you do not see how a slightly better extraction would 'trump literally double the dose'. As I have stated, without the same ketosterones then the same benefit would not be reached.

You get a kick out of trying to talk down to people on message boards don't you? Heres a clue, WE ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS. You're a lowly rep. Take your ego down a notch.

All I asked was, WHAT makes USP's extraction more anabolic. Obviously thats the Keto's. OK, so HOW MUCH of a "real world" (in our body, not on paper) anabolic effect are we talking about? A lot of things can clearly be considered anabolic. That doesn't mean they all lead to a pronounced anabolic effect in our systems. And that is precisely what has been insinuated here. That is what I am questioning. I guess its safe to assume that non USP cissus has ZERO anabolic impact? That is, If ANY of it really has an anabolic impact in the first first place. This is why I asked for a division in marketing and science.

Is this slight (how slight?) advantage worth the premium we pay above normal bulk cissus? And that is why I'm asking for a no BS response. What you gave me was more BS I already knew and with a touch of elitist tone - How Nice. You also seem to miss the fact that I am an outspoken FAN of cissus. I am not trying to tear down your product. All I ask for is a little respect and some straight answers.

Mulletsoldier, You don't represent USP well and I don't mind telling you.

You get a kick out of trying to talk down to people on message boards don't you? Heres a clue, WE ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS. You're a lowly rep. Take your ego down a notch.

All I asked was, WHAT makes USP's extraction more anabolic. Obviously thats the Keto's. OK, so HOW MUCH of a "real world" (in our body, not on paper) anabolic effect are we talking about? A lot of things can clearly be considered anabolic. That doesn't mean they all lead to a pronounced anabolic effect in our systems. And that is precisely what has been insinuated here. That is what I am questioning. I guess its safe to assume that non USP cissus has ZERO anabolic impact? That is, If ANY of it really has an anabolic impact in the first first place. This is why I asked for a division in marketing and science.

Is this slight (how slight?) advantage worth the premium we pay above normal bulk cissus? And that is why I'm asking for a no BS response. What you gave me was more BS I already knew and with a touch of elitist tone - How Nice. You also seem to miss the fact that I am an outspoken FAN of cissus. I am not trying to tear down your product. All I ask for is a little respect and some straight answers.

Mulletsoldier, You don't represent USP well and I don't mind telling you.

Alpine, you are obviously antagonistic, with the need to enter into every discussion with the point of arguing. That is fine. Your initial question was filled with attitude, asking questions which you obviously had arrogantly convinced yourself you already knew and I responded in kind. You asked me to spare you 'marketing' which I found amusing because I was never 'marketing' in the first place, though you continue to make this assertion. You are wrong.

I never stated in this thread, or any other thread for that matter that non-USP Labs Cissus IS NOT anabolic as a whole. Each case would depend completely on the extraction of ketosterones. As I said, if the same extraction in half the concentration is present then the same anabolism exists. You are right, claiming another product is as good as ours is a very sheisty marketing ploy, I apologize.

I am also interested in how you would like me to go about quantifying anabolism in the 'real world' without diverting to assays, or theory. You ask for science, and then ask for a response which would be devoid of it by definition, so which will it be? I could explain why Cissus is anabolic, and what pruported effect that could have, but this is not what you want correct? Ok, if you take Cissus you will gain 5lbs in one month..There, purely anecdotal evidence, real world in a sense.

Alpine, although servicing the customer is always the ultimate imperative of a rep that does not make you immune from recieving the same antagonism and disrespect you initially showed to me. That being said your 'suggestions' to my behaviour are duly noted.

Beyond that post you are more than welcome to continue this discussion privately through e-mail, as I do not see how you and I insulting eachother can provide any benefit to either the board or additional customers. I have already become more unprofessional than I would like and I apologize.

Awesome. You have managed to reply twice now with comments that have absolutely no semblance of any real meat and potatoes answer.

I suspect you like to see & read the eloquence of your ever so carefully constructed retorts far too much. You aren't a world renowned chemist. You arent a biochem expert. Just don't talk down to your customers when they ask simple questions. That is all....

I dont start drama or act antagonistically. I just call it like I see it. I'm not afraid to speak out on anyone or anything. Unlike you, I have nothing to lose. In addition, you're futile attempts at looking professional and cool headed come little and late.

Awesome. You have managed to reply twice now with comments that have absolutely no semblance of any real meat and potatoes answer.

I suspect you like to see & read the eloquence of your ever so carefully constructed retorts far too much. You aren't a world renowned chemist. You arent a biochem expert. Just don't talk down to your customers when they ask simple questions. That is all....

I dont start drama or act antagonistically. I just call it like I see it. I'm not afraid to speak out on anyone or anything. Unlike you, I have nothing to lose.

Keep up the good work. I'm done with this thread.

Well, I could and would call you a ****ing ******* if I wanted to, irregardless of what I had to lose, but I just chose not to.

I don't talk down to customers, I treat them with the same respect they treat me. Not good business sense? Maybe not, but like yourself, I call it like I see it.

P.S. I like the way you changed your post, the biochemist thing gave it a little more meat.

i thought thr difference was USP's extract for Ketosterones was 6% and Symmetry was like 10%(I'm probaly off by 1 % give or take) ....while the bulk everyone else has is 4%....just take more of the bulk

Our current extract is 5%.

We have a stronger extract (between 10 and 20%) on the way right now.

Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

So, let's talk about these anabolic steroidal components from Cissus quadrangularis. They have showed a marked influence in the rate of fracture- healing by influencing early regeneration of all connective tissues of mesenchyma origin, namely the fibroblasts, the chondroblasts and osteoblasts involved in the healing and quicker mineralization of the callus. It has greater impact on osteoblastic proliferation than other cellular responses.

While this may mean actually nothing to you in science-jibberish fashion, the anti-catabolic properties (or anabolic-like combatants) of cissus has actually been shown only to combat bone issues in long-term corticosteroid (cortisone, hydrocortisone, fluticasone, etc...) users. It has been advertised as such in the realm of "anabolic" but it is kind of misconstruing the info a tad.

For bone issues, I think this shows extreme promise and bone-regeneration has even been promoted in studies that use it, but what use it really has outside of the non fracture patient, bb, etc... is not really that clear. It hasn't really had the same effect or a statistically significant effect in those who are not nursing a fracture, etc...

Now, there are some other off-label uses, but the efficacy doesn't tend to pan out in practice.

rmag, you're definitely right on all accounts as it pertains to the gluccocorticoid antagonistic capabilities being the reparative mechanism of action for Cissus Q. In that instance it is anabolic in the literal, as opposed to the often assumed, sense.

The problem with classifying that as minconstruing information however, stems from the very good body of anecdotal evidence from users. While you know this information is not as credible as a six month, placebo controlled, double blind study involving humans, such a study would not take place anytime soon as it pertains to the anabolic activity of Cissus as we know it.

Also Cissus Q. has been shown to be an antagonist to TNF-Alpha, a pro inflammatory cytokine that is particularily involved in oxidative stress and systemic inflammation. It is in this capacity, more anti-catabolic as you mentioned, that I feel Cissus exhibits its most promising 'anabolic' capabilities.

But I have used both USPLabs and/or bulk Cissus everyday for the last almost year and a half. I have "felt" an anti-catabolic or anabolic effect from the CissusRX only...

The bulk Cissus works well as an agent to strengthen my stomach lining (See: J Med Food. 2004 Fall;7(3):372-6 Effect of Cissus quadrangularis on gastric mucosal defensive factors in experimentally induced gastric ulcer-a comparative study with sucralfate. So I generally use the bulk.

BUT for ultimate pain relief I would go with USPLabs. USPLabs Cissus RX greatly helped with pain and healing of my fractured ribs. In fact I just had a bottle of Cissus RX sent to my fiance to help her carpal tunnel pain. I chose USPLabs over the bulk because I feel based on my experience that it has a greater chance of helping relieve her pain.

In fact I just had a bottle of Cissus RX sent to my fiance to help her carpal tunnel pain. I chose USPLabs over the bulk because I feel based on my experience that it has a greater chance of helping relieve her pain.

Yes I will. She has an appointment to see a specialist and probably needs surgery in both hands.

I want to see if it helps the pain and numbness now & then have her use it after surgery to see if it helps her heal quicker.

11-23-2006, 09:40 PM

Guest

Originally Posted by Alpine

Why is USP Labs more anabolic?

Is the (supposed) anabolic advantage of USP's specifically because of the ketosterones? Wouldnt you be better of just taking MORE of the cheaper bulk extraction anyway? It's cost effective and you get more Cissus in the end. I hardly see how a slightly better extraction trumps literally doubling the dose.

I understand the extraction is superior, but HOW much of a real world advantage does this give us? How "anabolic" are we talking here?

Someone lay it down no BS. Spare us the marketing...

I know USP Cissus RX is a fantastic product. Cissus in general is great. I was taking high dose bulk cissus (the first run that was said to be exactly like USP's from Nutra) I felt dramatic decreases in pain/weakness in a minor A/C shoulder joint injury that I have had for years. Not even cortisone injections seemed to have the lasting effect that cissus did. When we went over the Xrays, the doc showed me clear signs of bone spurs and damage at the joint due to friction. Rather than masking the injury, Cissus seemed to truly help heal the joint/tendon pain I was experiencing in the shoulder. It doesnt seem to "catch" as much. Obviously I attribute some of this to slowly learning how to workout smarter to avoid it. It's been a month since I have taken anymore Cissus and I'm still pain free. Cortisone never did that for me.

I probably should have said that to start. But I'm young and overambitious with this kind of stuff..lol

11-23-2006, 10:25 PM

Guest

Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier

I probably should have said that to start. But I'm young and overambitious with this kind of stuff..lol

The consumer can see the obvious. If the extract is the same % but you need more of the bulk over Cissus RX, his arguement only supports our facts about quality. There was not an arguement but a confirmation from a skeptic...does not get much better.

Our extract comes from the extact same place each and everytime. We are not sourcing to find the cheapest price. We are studying to bring the best product.

I do not source Powders from India. My partner named PRABHU sources our powders. Prabhu is a bio chemist That resides in India. He actually just made an 80% sesamin. Do you know that at 80% sesamin is a bueatiful Powder.

Let the skeptics scream MARKETING, but we will just give them quality and results. Without skeptics USPLabs is small time.

As a matter of fact I did. When I finally found a factory able to make an decent 50% oil for Sesathin, we also ordered different purity Sesamin Powders. The ones I saw ranged from a light golden brown/white to a pure white.

Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless