I'm not saying in the NFL, I'm saying with people, human kind... WE do stuff like this. We hold grudges, we're vengeful, and call in favors to accomplish our ends, and our friends, if it doesn't take much skin off of their back, often accommodates those requests, especially if they're somewhat of a disciplinarian (which Fisher is), and Schwartz knows him well enough to know how to manipulate him (which he does)... C'mon Jeff... This guy deserves it... He needs to be put in his place with some of that Tennesee Thunder...

WE don't do this stuff. Maybe you and the people you surround yourself with do something like that, but I don't and I can't remember any instance of someone I know showing such an incredible lack of empathy. I may hold a grudge or throw something at you if you threw something at me, but I would never try to permanently affect someones life.

Your arguing that Schwartz and Fisher would try to destroy a troubled kid's career just because Schwartz didn't like how he acted on his team. He cut Young from the team there was nothing more Schwartz had to do to get back at him and if he were to hold a grudge I'm sure he would be way more satisfied getting him on the field to have a defensive player catch him going over the middle.

Where do you get Schwartz knows how to manipulate Fisher? If anything the game they coached against each other showed Fisher knows Schwartz better than Schwartz knows Fisher.

It's amazing that you think so little of people that you would believe that a coach/former player like Fisher, who has been in the NFL every year except 2011 since he was drafted in 1981, would so easily play with the livelihood of a player.

If you don't think that human beings in generally do this stuff, you're incredibly naive. Maybe you in all of your infinite morality are above this sort of thing, but human beings do it ALL THE TIME.

Further, Schwartz has PROVEN that he's petty, vengeful, and a total tool. He can't even take a tough handshake without tracking someone down and getting his revenge right there on the spot.

Mental manipulation and outsmarting someone are two different things. Schwartz knows Fisher well enough to know how to pull his heart strings to get him do to things, but that doesn't mean that Schwartz is smarter than Fisher or a better tactician. Two completely unrelated concepts.

I'm not saying in the NFL, I'm saying with people, human kind... WE do stuff like this. We hold grudges, we're vengeful, and call in favors to accomplish our ends, and our friends, if it doesn't take much skin off of their back, often accommodates those requests, especially if they're somewhat of a disciplinarian (which Fisher is), and Schwartz knows him well enough to know how to manipulate him (which he does)... C'mon Jeff... This guy deserves it... He needs to be put in his place with some of that Tennesee Thunder...

WE don't do this stuff. Maybe you and the people you surround yourself with do something like that, but I don't and I can't remember any instance of someone I know showing such an incredible lack of empathy. I may hold a grudge or throw something at you if you threw something at me, but I would never try to permanently affect someones life.

Your arguing that Schwartz and Fisher would try to destroy a troubled kid's career just because Schwartz didn't like how he acted on his team. He cut Young from the team there was nothing more Schwartz had to do to get back at him and if he were to hold a grudge I'm sure he would be way more satisfied getting him on the field to have a defensive player catch him going over the middle.

Where do you get Schwartz knows how to manipulate Fisher? If anything the game they coached against each other showed Fisher knows Schwartz better than Schwartz knows Fisher.

It's amazing that you think so little of people that you would believe that a coach/former player like Fisher, who has been in the NFL every year except 2011 since he was drafted in 1981, would so easily play with the livelihood of a player.

If you don't think that human beings in generally do this stuff, you're incredibly naive. Maybe you in all of your infinite morality are above this sort of thing, but human beings do it ALL THE TIME.

Further, Schwartz has PROVEN that he's petty, vengeful, and a total tool. He can't even take a tough handshake without tracking someone down and getting his revenge right there on the spot.

Mental manipulation and outsmarting someone are two different things. Schwartz knows Fisher well enough to know how to pull his heart strings to get him do to things, but that doesn't mean that Schwartz is smarter than Fisher or a better tactician. Two completely unrelated concepts.

People do petty stupid things to people all the time, but what you are saying isn't petty. It is a serious act of retaliation that could end in ruining a person's life. You call me naive, but I'd say the person that lacks wisdom is the one that believes most people would be willing to hurt him.

Schwartz proved he was an emotional badonkadonk hole which is far from being a schemer that would plan out a way to hurt another person. You have absolutely no evidence to legitimize your claim that Schwartz would do such a thing. They only thing you base this on is the one time he flipped out suddenly on Harbaugh, you show me a time he made a premeditated attack on someone and maybe then your argument will hold some weight. I'm betting you can't even find evidence of any NFL coach ever doing something like that, so why you think it's even a valid proposition is baffling.

February 18th, 2013, 2:48 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

Picking someone up on a waiver claim and cutting them later isn't a "serious act of retaliation that could ruin someone's life..." That's a bit ridiculous. If Titus starts a PR campaign now he can be signed by camp, and play day 1 of 2013. Nothing that was done to this kid "ruined his life..." He's like 23 years old for God's sake.

And I never said "most people" would hurt him, I said Schwartz would, and he's proven to have the character to do it. Actually I do have evidence that Schwartz would do such a thing. I have circumstantial character evidence that he IS that sort of person, and has the M.O. You have no evidence that he wouldn't do such a thing. Show you a time where he permitted an attack on someone? How about sticking up for Suh after the stomp? How about sticking up for Suh after the crotch kick? How about sticking up for virtually everyone of his players after they've done something stupid? It's in his nature to get even, and be a cheap, petty bastard.

Picking someone up on a waiver claim and cutting them later isn't a "serious act of retaliation that could ruin someone's life..." That's a bit ridiculous. If Titus starts a PR campaign now he can be signed by camp, and play day 1 of 2013. Nothing that was done to this kid "ruined his life..." He's like 23 years old for God's sake.

And I never said "most people" would hurt him, I said Schwartz would, and he's proven to have the character to do it. Actually I do have evidence that Schwartz would do such a thing. I have circumstantial character evidence that he IS that sort of person, and has the M.O. You have no evidence that he wouldn't do such a thing. Show you a time where he permitted an attack on someone? How about sticking up for Suh after the stomp? How about sticking up for Suh after the crotch kick? How about sticking up for virtually everyone of his players after they've done something stupid? It's in his nature to get even, and be a cheap, petty bastard.

I'm going by what started this part of the conversation which is LF57 posting the idea that it was done to damage Young's career. That in fact would be a more than petty act. Actually I shouldn't have used the word life, I should have used career. I also never claimed that any of this ruined his life. I think he is talented enough to get past this by the start of the season, but you can't deny that if this specific thing stopped him from getting back into the NFL it could possibly ruin his life. We don't know what kind of man Titus Young is and it's not rare for a professional athlete to fall apart when he is not able to continue his career.

I didn't ask to show me a time he permitted an attack. I said show me a time he committed a premeditated attack or any evidence of an NFL coach schemed with another coach to harm a player's career. You have great circumstantial evidence, it's unfortunate that the circumstances of those incidents are not similar in any way to what your arguing Schwartz would do. His players getting angry and retaliating or taking a cheap shot at a player during an adrenaline filled moment of a game is in no way similar. It would have required Schwartz to talk over the release with Mayhew, once they agreed then Schwartz would have to call Fisher and convince him to go along with the idea. Suh didn't sit down before the game and say I'm going to stomp the center this game or I'm going to crotch kick the QB.

I know I have no evidence to prove he wouldn't do it, I also don't have evidence he wears women's underwear, is having an affair, or steals candy from the local store. My lack of evidence doesn't make me claiming those things valid in anyway, so why would it make him trying to hurt Young's career valid?

February 18th, 2013, 5:44 pm

sweetd20

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 amPosts: 2490

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

I think at this point Titus is going to have to either go to the CFL for a year or two or sit and wait for the injuries to pile up and have a team sign him out of desperation.

February 18th, 2013, 6:47 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Jim Bob Cooter

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4195Location: Davison Mi

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

wjb21ndtown wrote:

RJ,Say that all you want. You can't argue that his tactics worked for him, and he's now created his own "2nd chance opportunitty," and he's better off at his new location.

lol you were saying?

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

February 19th, 2013, 6:10 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

regularjoe12 wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

RJ,Say that all you want. You can't argue that his tactics worked for him, and he's now created his own "2nd chance opportunitty," and he's better off at his new location.

lol you were saying?

RJ, I still feel like he wanted out of his rookie deal, and this all could work out better for him in the end. If he's nuts, he's nuts, but if he wanted out of his rookie deal, everything he did he had to do (get cut from the Lions and the Rams).

February 19th, 2013, 6:13 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

rao wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Picking someone up on a waiver claim and cutting them later isn't a "serious act of retaliation that could ruin someone's life..." That's a bit ridiculous. If Titus starts a PR campaign now he can be signed by camp, and play day 1 of 2013. Nothing that was done to this kid "ruined his life..." He's like 23 years old for God's sake.

And I never said "most people" would hurt him, I said Schwartz would, and he's proven to have the character to do it. Actually I do have evidence that Schwartz would do such a thing. I have circumstantial character evidence that he IS that sort of person, and has the M.O. You have no evidence that he wouldn't do such a thing. Show you a time where he permitted an attack on someone? How about sticking up for Suh after the stomp? How about sticking up for Suh after the crotch kick? How about sticking up for virtually everyone of his players after they've done something stupid? It's in his nature to get even, and be a cheap, petty bastard.

I'm going by what started this part of the conversation which is LF57 posting the idea that it was done to damage Young's career. That in fact would be a more than petty act. Actually I shouldn't have used the word life, I should have used career. I also never claimed that any of this ruined his life. I think he is talented enough to get past this by the start of the season, but you can't deny that if this specific thing stopped him from getting back into the NFL it could possibly ruin his life. We don't know what kind of man Titus Young is and it's not rare for a professional athlete to fall apart when he is not able to continue his career.

I didn't ask to show me a time he permitted an attack. I said show me a time he committed a premeditated attack or any evidence of an NFL coach schemed with another coach to harm a player's career. You have great circumstantial evidence, it's unfortunate that the circumstances of those incidents are not similar in any way to what your arguing Schwartz would do. His players getting angry and retaliating or taking a cheap shot at a player during an adrenaline filled moment of a game is in no way similar. It would have required Schwartz to talk over the release with Mayhew, once they agreed then Schwartz would have to call Fisher and convince him to go along with the idea. Suh didn't sit down before the game and say I'm going to stomp the center this game or I'm going to crotch kick the QB.

I know I have no evidence to prove he wouldn't do it, I also don't have evidence he wears women's underwear, is having an affair, or steals candy from the local store. My lack of evidence doesn't make me claiming those things valid in anyway, so why would it make him trying to hurt Young's career valid?

So you admit that Schwartz is everything I said he was, you're just looking for evidence of "prior planning"... I would point you to his weekly game plan and say it's in his nature, but there isn't much evidence there. That said, it's not like this thing had to be "concocted" or "well planned." A simple phone call is all that was necessary to get the job done. Further, I'm just saying that it COULD have happened, and it very well could have. You're the one arguing "no way, no how, that's not how it works..." I disagree.

February 19th, 2013, 6:15 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Jim Bob Cooter

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4195Location: Davison Mi

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

wjb21ndtown wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

RJ,Say that all you want. You can't argue that his tactics worked for him, and he's now created his own "2nd chance opportunitty," and he's better off at his new location.

lol you were saying?

RJ, I still feel like he wanted out of his rookie deal, and this all could work out better for him in the end. If he's nuts, he's nuts, but if he wanted out of his rookie deal, everything he did he had to do (get cut from the Lions and the Rams).

All I can agree with you here is this: his cycle of insanity continues. even if you are right about your theory, this is just NOT what a normal stable person who is serious about a career does. Once again I ask....what in his history tells you that he will suddenly straighten up and fly right?

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

February 19th, 2013, 6:31 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

regularjoe12 wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

RJ,Say that all you want. You can't argue that his tactics worked for him, and he's now created his own "2nd chance opportunitty," and he's better off at his new location.

lol you were saying?

RJ, I still feel like he wanted out of his rookie deal, and this all could work out better for him in the end. If he's nuts, he's nuts, but if he wanted out of his rookie deal, everything he did he had to do (get cut from the Lions and the Rams).

All I can agree with you here is this: his cycle of insanity continues. even if you are right about your theory, this is just NOT what a normal stable person who is serious about a career does. Once again I ask....what in his history tells you that he will suddenly straighten up and fly right?

Again, the fact that he straightened up and "flew right" in college. He was suspended for an entire year, one more mishap would have likely gotten him kicked out of school, and he stayed clean for two years.

February 19th, 2013, 6:46 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Jim Bob Cooter

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4195Location: Davison Mi

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

wjb21ndtown wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

RJ,Say that all you want. You can't argue that his tactics worked for him, and he's now created his own "2nd chance opportunitty," and he's better off at his new location.

lol you were saying?

RJ, I still feel like he wanted out of his rookie deal, and this all could work out better for him in the end. If he's nuts, he's nuts, but if he wanted out of his rookie deal, everything he did he had to do (get cut from the Lions and the Rams).

All I can agree with you here is this: his cycle of insanity continues. even if you are right about your theory, this is just NOT what a normal stable person who is serious about a career does. Once again I ask....what in his history tells you that he will suddenly straighten up and fly right?

Again, the fact that he straightened up and "flew right" in college. He was suspended for an entire year, one more mishap would have likely gotten him kicked out of school, and he stayed clean for two years.

wait though, wasnt it your argument that he never really matured and cleaned up, he just cleaned up enough to not get kicked out, thats why we should have grabbed one Rice or Cobb?

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

February 19th, 2013, 6:57 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR

regularjoe12 wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

RJ,Say that all you want. You can't argue that his tactics worked for him, and he's now created his own "2nd chance opportunitty," and he's better off at his new location.

lol you were saying?

RJ, I still feel like he wanted out of his rookie deal, and this all could work out better for him in the end. If he's nuts, he's nuts, but if he wanted out of his rookie deal, everything he did he had to do (get cut from the Lions and the Rams).

All I can agree with you here is this: his cycle of insanity continues. even if you are right about your theory, this is just NOT what a normal stable person who is serious about a career does. Once again I ask....what in his history tells you that he will suddenly straighten up and fly right?

Again, the fact that he straightened up and "flew right" in college. He was suspended for an entire year, one more mishap would have likely gotten him kicked out of school, and he stayed clean for two years.

wait though, wasnt it your argument that he never really matured and cleaned up, he just cleaned up enough to not get kicked out, thats why we should have grabbed one Rice or Cobb?

He has a history of "cleaning up when he wants to" that's my point. He did that then, and he would have done that now IF he wanted to remain a Lion. He obviously didn't, hence he WANTED to get kicked off of our team.

I didn't think we should have taken Young period. It was actually Smith or Cobb that I wanted. I thought Smith was more of a true #2, and he is, and I thought Cobb was more versatile and a better WR, and he is.

Picking someone up on a waiver claim and cutting them later isn't a "serious act of retaliation that could ruin someone's life..." That's a bit ridiculous. If Titus starts a PR campaign now he can be signed by camp, and play day 1 of 2013. Nothing that was done to this kid "ruined his life..." He's like 23 years old for God's sake.

And I never said "most people" would hurt him, I said Schwartz would, and he's proven to have the character to do it. Actually I do have evidence that Schwartz would do such a thing. I have circumstantial character evidence that he IS that sort of person, and has the M.O. You have no evidence that he wouldn't do such a thing. Show you a time where he permitted an attack on someone? How about sticking up for Suh after the stomp? How about sticking up for Suh after the crotch kick? How about sticking up for virtually everyone of his players after they've done something stupid? It's in his nature to get even, and be a cheap, petty bastard.

I'm going by what started this part of the conversation which is LF57 posting the idea that it was done to damage Young's career. That in fact would be a more than petty act. Actually I shouldn't have used the word life, I should have used career. I also never claimed that any of this ruined his life. I think he is talented enough to get past this by the start of the season, but you can't deny that if this specific thing stopped him from getting back into the NFL it could possibly ruin his life. We don't know what kind of man Titus Young is and it's not rare for a professional athlete to fall apart when he is not able to continue his career.

I didn't ask to show me a time he permitted an attack. I said show me a time he committed a premeditated attack or any evidence of an NFL coach schemed with another coach to harm a player's career. You have great circumstantial evidence, it's unfortunate that the circumstances of those incidents are not similar in any way to what your arguing Schwartz would do. His players getting angry and retaliating or taking a cheap shot at a player during an adrenaline filled moment of a game is in no way similar. It would have required Schwartz to talk over the release with Mayhew, once they agreed then Schwartz would have to call Fisher and convince him to go along with the idea. Suh didn't sit down before the game and say I'm going to stomp the center this game or I'm going to crotch kick the QB.

I know I have no evidence to prove he wouldn't do it, I also don't have evidence he wears women's underwear, is having an affair, or steals candy from the local store. My lack of evidence doesn't make me claiming those things valid in anyway, so why would it make him trying to hurt Young's career valid?

So you admit that Schwartz is everything I said he was, you're just looking for evidence of "prior planning"... I would point you to his weekly game plan and say it's in his nature, but there isn't much evidence there. That said, it's not like this thing had to be "concocted" or "well planned." A simple phone call is all that was necessary to get the job done. Further, I'm just saying that it COULD have happened, and it very well could have. You're the one arguing "no way, no how, that's not how it works..." I disagree.

You weren't arguing he could do it, you were arguing that he would do it and that's where I think you are going off base. In your post you wrote "You don't think Schwartz would say Fish, this guy pissed me off. If no one else claims him, will you, and cut him a week later. He needs to learn his lesson... Schartz has SHOWN that he is that petty and that big of a chump." in response to DJ-B questioning the idea of a conspiracy to harm Young's career. I think it's out of character for Schwartz to do something out of the moment or behind someone back like that, now if you told me he got into an argument with Young and punched him in the jaw I would have no reason to question you.

In a piece of news that will surprise exactly no one, no one claimed troubled wide receiver Titus Young off waivers yesterday according to multiple reports.

Actually, troubled is the wrong adjective to use in connection with Young, because it implies that there might be fault created by someone other than the subject of that sentence.

Young’s issues in Detroit, which included sucker-punching a teammate and intentionally lining up in the wrong place, are the kind of team-killing actions that most teams won’t soil their hands with.

Most, not all.

Because known coddler of bad boys Jeff Fisher took a chance on him, and in a week, the Rams realized they had seen enough, waiving him before he set foot on a field for them. But the Rams were the only team to put in a claim when the Lions cut him, taking a free look at someone whose talents are obvious.

So for now, Young remains unemployed. And until he can convince someone he’s changed, matured or contrite, he’s probably going to stay that way for some time.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see the Pats give him a shot after the draft and free agency if they don't like what they have at WR. The could lose Welker and I've heard they possibly could cut Lloyd. They have a rep for giving bad boys a chance but they may not even want to deal with this headache, especially after the Dennard trial results.