I think a lot of Lowry's self-centred play comes from him being frustrated with the terrible offense he is forced to run. An example of this was in Portland where he was waiting for the team to run the play, but they didn't do anything so he jacked up a long 3. I know i sound like a Lowry-homer but it's hard to blame him IMO

Just to tack on to this, the team not trusting eachother is something I've noticed getting progressively worse as the season goes on.

On offense they don't swing the ball, don't look to exploit mismatches, don't look to set eachother up. Part of it is that they lack players that can do those things (even do simple things like make an entry pass), and part of it is that they employ ball-stoppers and guys whose only game involves isolation. I honestly can't remember watching a team move the ball less and with less purpose than these Raps do; the only time anyone ever passes is when they've picked up their dribble and they have no choice.

On defense, they overhelp like no team i've ever watched. They clearly don't trust eachother to contain their man, and I can't even blame them because they have so many poor defenders. This wouldn't even be that big of a problem for most clubs, but it takes about 2 rotations for the Raptors to be completely lost; how many times this year have you seen either zero raptors closing out an open 3 point shooter, or MULTIPLE raptors closing out? Both are signs that people haven't got a clue what they're doing.

sigh. what a year. you get to a certain point, and you just become desensitized to it. then you think, 'man, it really can't get any worse than this, right? RIGHT?' but fuck no, it certainly can. step one in how to make it worse is letting BC have any involvement in any moves made from this point onward. actually, i take that back...BC should be retained as a check on what not to do. they (stefanski, various yes-men, casey, embry, etc.) could put together some proposed deals, and see what BC thinks of them. any that he gets excited by go in the garbage. give him the milton waddams treatment:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRyY4F7SZxE

anyway. i still don't think they're as bad as their record indicates, but that doesn't really matter...unfortunately, for a team as young as the raps, a 'good loss' (i.e. playing well, losing a close game to a superior opponent, overcoming bad officiating, etc.) only lasts so long. once the losses pile up, it just becomes hard to break the cycle, and go into a game with a positive attitude. or to not give up when things start to go downhill in a game that's slipping away.

as for general morale, this is about as low as i can remember it being...just feels so toxic. as someone who was genuinely excited by lowry's arrival & his play at the start of the year, count me among those frustrated by the turn for the worse he's taken since coming back. still think he's far better than he's shown, and there are likely a number of reasons for his poor play (frustration being the main one, but also the realization that his value is dropping - he has this year & the next to 'prove' he's an elite PG deserving of a near-max contract, and playing on a horrible team isn't doing much to up his perceived value).

TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

Not you specifically. It was a collective "you". Plenty of people had them ranked similarly and are now calling for the bomb. I don't know if I have any of the answers. I just wonder how much the injuries, the schedule and the fact that this team is learning how to play together, have affected our standing 1/4 way through the season. It would be nice to see it play out. Maybe I am just as optimistic as a Taylor Swift boyfriend before he gets a song written about him. In either case, this thread has been a great opportunity to try and figure out where this franchise can go.

Can't remember where I had them ranked but I was projecting 33 wins -- basically the exact same winning percentage as last year. I'm not sure they will even get that now, I feel like we're at a point where we could be looking at half that many wins. I too assumed a top 10 defense (but just a very inexperienced and raw squad). That defense is gone, and we have a GM that thinks this roster has enough talent, which it doesn't.

Can't remember where I had them ranked but I was projecting 33 wins -- basically the exact same winning percentage as last year. I'm not sure they will even get that now, I feel like we're at a point where we could be looking at half that many wins. I too assumed a top 10 defense (but just a very inexperienced and raw squad). That defense is gone, and we have a GM that thinks this roster has enough talent, which it doesn't.

In my heart of hearts I don't believe he believes that rubbish.

The reality is if he says talent is an issue, what does it do for the moral of an already tarnished locker room and it hurts his bargaining position with other teams (lol - I can hardly stop from laughing typing that last bit).

The problem I have is he did not find a politically correct way to side step the question and he proceeded to throw his coach and rookie under the bus. In trying to deflect blame away from himself, he only turned the spotlight directly on him.

The reality is if he says talent is an issue, what does it do for the moral of an already tarnished locker room and it hurts his bargaining position with other teams (lol - I can hardly stop from laughing typing that last bit).

The problem I have is he did not find a politically correct way to side step the question and he proceeded to throw his coach and rookie under the bus. In trying to deflect blame away from himself, he only turned the spotlight directly on him.

The reality is if he says talent is an issue, what does it do for the moral of an already tarnished locker room and it hurts his bargaining position with other teams (lol - I can hardly stop from laughing typing that last bit).

The problem I have is he did not find a politically correct way to side step the question and he proceeded to throw his coach and rookie under the bus. In trying to deflect blame away from himself, he only turned the spotlight directly on him.

I don't think he threw JV under the bus. The reality is that JV is a rookie, and needs time to learn defensively. I don't know how he could be more politically correct about that.

Saying they won too many games with Casey last year was an odd statement, though. Also, he's the one who hired the ridiculously incompetent head coach, so it's still his problem.

OK, well I maybe misunderstood what you were saying, because there are some people around here who say "American ball players don't want to play in Toronto because they can't even find it on a map" etc. as if the city or country is the issue. Beyond it being thinly-veiled racism, it's not true. The Jays have attracted lots of great players for decades. The problem is the disastrous management team has signed so many awful players to big contracts, there isn't enough cap space at the moment. And whoever finally replaces Colangelo is going to have to dump those bad contracts on the first team stupid enough to take them.

I've made the point winning and money trumps all numerous times.

It is only of late I am in total 100% agreement on the disastrous management team - but, hey, better late than never.

OK, well I maybe misunderstood what you were saying, because there are some people around here who say "American ball players don't want to play in Toronto because they can't even find it on a map" etc. as if the city or country is the issue. Beyond it being thinly-veiled racism, it's not true. The Jays have attracted lots of great players for decades. The problem is the disastrous management team has signed so many awful players to big contracts, there isn't enough cap space at the moment. And whoever finally replaces Colangelo is going to have to dump those bad contracts on the first team stupid enough to take them.

it's actually more likely xenophobia than racism, but w/e.

as to the point, i totally agree with your premise (and matt's rebutal) that players will sign anywhere as long as there is a legit chance to win there. but then we're looking at a chicken-egg situation...how do you create that 'winning environment?' by having 'winning' players that contribute to a 'winning' team. where do those 'winning' players come from? the air? no, they come from the same 3 places that are available to every team (draft, trade, FA); if the team doesn't have 'winning' players &/or a 'winning culture,' then it's pretty hard to sway FAs to sign here based on the premise of 'winning,' isn't it?

TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

as to the point, i totally agree with your premise (and matt's rebutal) that players will sign anywhere as long as there is a legit chance to win there. but then we're looking at a chicken-egg situation...how do you create that 'winning environment?' by having 'winning' players that contribute to a 'winning' team. where do those 'winning' players come from? the air? no, they come from the same 3 places that are available to every team (draft, trade, FA); if the team doesn't have 'winning' players &/or a 'winning culture,' then it's pretty hard to sway FAs to sign here based on the premise of 'winning,' isn't it?

While I totally agree that players will almost unconditionally sign with winning teams, I disagree that it's a 'chicken and egg situation'. A 'winning environment' can be created by an EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD GM and he can do it without elite free agents. Draft, Trade and Free Agency as mentioned are the 3 available options to all GM's. Yes a team is limited as far as the Draft is concerned but I believe that Trade and Free Agency are underestimated options. To some extent, even the Draft is.

Colangelo is a capable GM and did prove it when he started here. Among other things, one of the main reasons for his failure is his over-reliance on input from his support staff. Stephanski, Embry, Casey etc.

Kevin Love's been upseting people in that organization. A good shake up would help both teams.

Minny can save money, get a younger prospect in Davis a long range shooting big man, and a better backup PG Spanish to help Ricky Rubio for the remaining of the season.

Sure sign me up.

No way in heaven does Minnesota do that.

The type of value Love would return is equal to or better than what OKC got for Harden.

Love put up 26 points and 13 rebs last year and is doing 20 and 15 this year.

All this Love talk is very premature regardless. He is under contract for at least another 2 seasons after this year. Furthermore, Taylor is talking about selling the Wolves. Trading Love for that package is a great way to knock off $100M off his asking price.