Just listened to this this morning. NPR sponsored a debate which included Lawrence Krauss, Michael Shermer, Ian Hutchinson, and Dinesh D’ Souza debating whether science refutes god. You can download the podcast from NPR’s website HERE, or through iTunes, or using the Stitcher smartphone app. Enjoy.

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For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, obvious,.... and just plain wrong

They actually made an interesting if a bit tongue in cheek comment about that in the debate. I think it was Michael Shermer who said that all theists are basically atheists in that they dont believe in 99% of the gods that various civilizations have created. We just need to get them to give up the last one they’re clinging to.

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For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, obvious,.... and just plain wrong

Scientists are products of various cultures and may be indoctrinated like any other children.

But kids who want to become scientists have to confront the stupidity of religion.

But we hardly ever hear of the possibility that God regards religion as trash. But if there is some kind of God then scientists have the responsibility of tracking His ass down regardless of what they prefer to believe. So they may stumble across God sooner or later just like the precession of the orbit of Mercury. But it might not happen for 10,000 years so why worry about it.

Now I have to look up the definition of “refute”.

re·fute
/riˈfyo͞ot/
Verb

1. Prove (a statement or theory) to be wrong or false; disprove.
2. Prove that (someone) is wrong.

There seems to be this continuing irrationality of atheists and debate programmers that by challenging Christian believers per se constitutes challenging religion and spiritual consciousness. In other words, the real spiritual authorities are not invited to these debates. Only properly “credentialed” scholars so that right there skewers the whole thing off kilter because religious scholarship has zero to do with spiritual consciousness. We just never see in these staged debates a real representative of spiritual consciousness, someone who actually receives spiritual visions and/or performs spiritual work and can articulate them, someone like me for example who, like I have here, utterly destroyed the atheist argument by pointing out its fatal flaw, rushing to judgment without checking the facts and forgetting knowledge and science are not frozen at the atheist’ time. That right there smashes their viewpoint because in just the last 20 years or so brain science is revealing quite interesting features of the human brain that no atheist here for example has explained, e.g. why the human brain has evolved to process spiritual input if as atheists believe in their fundamentalist mindset, there’s nothing there to process.

Without having a religious visionary who understands how spiritual reality works these debates are only media circus distractions and meaningless for providing any real meat to judge a paradigm with.

someone who actually receives spiritual visions and/or performs spiritual work and can articulate them, someone like me for example who, like I have here, utterly destroyed the atheist argument by pointing out its fatal flaw,

I must have been snoozing. When did you do that?

arielmessenger - 12 December 2012 10:18 PM

in just the last 20 years or so brain science is revealing quite interesting features of the human brain that no atheist here for example has explained, e.g. why the human brain has evolved to process spiritual input if as atheists believe in their fundamentalist mindset, there’s nothing there to process.

Perhaps you could post links to the studies you refer to. What did they show? That certain areas lit up on FMRI when a person claimed to have a spiritual experience? Why would that be surprising? If I sit on a ledge and look at the sunset over a valley you could call that a spiritual experience and there will most certainly be a set of neurons that fire off in response to that experience and that is going to show up on FMRI. So where is the mystery? If anything this is evidence that spiritual experiences are simply a neurobiological event and nothing supernatural at all.

arielmessenger - 12 December 2012 10:18 PM

Without having a religious visionary who understands how spiritual reality works these debates are only media circus distractions and meaningless for providing any real meat to judge a paradigm with.

And that person would be you i suppose. Perhaps when you get done walking on water you could pick up a phone and offer your services.

P.S. In case you didn’t happen to catch the title of the post, this debate was about whether or not science refutes god not spirituality.

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For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, obvious,.... and just plain wrong

someone who actually receives spiritual visions and/or performs spiritual work and can articulate them, someone like me for example who, like I have here, utterly destroyed the atheist argument by pointing out its fatal flaw,

I must have been snoozing. When did you do that?

arielmessenger - 12 December 2012 10:18 PM

in just the last 20 years or so brain science is revealing quite interesting features of the human brain that no atheist here for example has explained, e.g. why the human brain has evolved to process spiritual input if as atheists believe in their fundamentalist mindset, there’s nothing there to process.

Perhaps you could post links to the studies you refer to. What did they show? That certain areas lit up on FMRI when a person claimed to have a spiritual experience? Why would that be surprising? If I sit on a ledge and look at the sunset over a valley you could call that a spiritual experience and there will most certainly be a set of neurons that fire off in response to that experience and that is going to show up on FMRI. So where is the mystery? If anything this is evidence that spiritual experiences are simply a neurobiological event and nothing supernatural at all.

Again and again, the blindness to what spiritual reality produces vs. what you are describing which is ordinary pleasure. Does ordinary pleasure produce visions of God, produce visions and revelations that follow specific themes and even imagery? Huh? If you sit on a ledge at sunset do you come away writing a gospel that millions of people will relate as part of a universal religious epic? I don’t think so because we’d see the evidence and we don’t. It doesn’t exist except as empty examples that atheists like you will trot out as comparable to religious experience when they don’t have a clue what religious experience is all about. Ditto, again, repeat, it’s the foolishness of those without experience in a subject matter making judgments about it when they don’t know what they’re talking about.

arielmessenger - 12 December 2012 10:18 PM

Without having a religious visionary who understands how spiritual reality works these debates are only media circus distractions and meaningless for providing any real meat to judge a paradigm with.

And that person would be you i suppose. Perhaps when you get done walking on water you could pick up a phone and offer your services.

Yes I am that person as anyone can see who actually reads my book, The Aquariana Key, which is online for free at: http://biomystic.org

P.S. In case you didn’t happen to catch the title of the post, this debate was about whether or not science refutes god not spirituality.

In case you didn’t happen to use your head I am obviously posting to the subject as someone with experience in God consciousness which right off the bat here you in your ignorance of the subject matter are trying to separated from spirituality—as if..this isn’t Buddhism we’re talking about but the subject of God. And if you can’t deal with a real live religious visionary then we have to ask you, why are you here posting to a subject you know so little about and yet want to control the debate?

Look, atheists, there is a limit to how much I can take in dealing with closed minded irrationality of fundamentalist believers. You all are the same in the end and I forget my own wisdom in my zeal to reach past your closed minds to others viewing these discussions that you can’t debate fundamentalist believers. It’s a waste of time because they have their whole egos and identities wrapped up in their various Scripts or in atheist case, atheist role model utterances of those without experience in the subject matter they claim to know all about. IQ doesn’t help the atheist brain that has poor access to spiritual reception capability that is built in now to our human brains. An obvious defect in atheist thinking seems to be their huge reliance on linear left-brain consciousness domination which hints at spiritual consciousness being much more a right brain activity. In any event, when you talk about a subject that you don’t know about because you only read what others say about it and come to me with your opinions and beliefs and argue with me about my real live experience in spiritual consciousness, provable to anyone with eyes to see past prejudices, you know, like over 500 Nazarean Christians could see at Easter in Nazareth, Israel, in 2003 when my spiritually commissioned from God gift to them and myself were honored in the courtyard of the Church of St. John. I’ve had tea with the Archbishop of the Holy Land dioceses, I am recognized by leaders in my community and every community I travel to as a religious visionary and man of God. I tell you this as I have always done so in presenting evidence of my own spiritual experience, not to brag but to show you that when you come up against a real spiritually led person, you better be prepared for your cherished beliefs to be crushed and defeated as I have done so here now enough times to call a halt to the slaughter.

You all lost the debate. Go home, realize why atheism even in secular countries is always a tiny minority viewpoint, “spiritual, not religious” replacing many a former organized religionist affiliation now which is good, but atheism, which is not good because it is another farooking fundamentalist mindset intellectuals don’t need to be distracted with because it never can be a logical, rational way of thinking. You don’t rush to judgment without knowing what you’re talking about and that’s what atheists do continually.

Thanks for the opportunity for letting a theist trounce your mistaken ideology. I know you don’t appreciate what I’ve done but it wasn’t for your sakes but for anyone following these discussions to think about theism more deeply and why it is a human phenomena that is ancient yet never goes away. You can’t dismiss it without knowing what it is and that takes experience, direct experience and not relying on second-hand, Nth-hand hearsay.

I tell you this as I have always done so in presenting evidence of my own spiritual experience, not to brag but to show you that when you come up against a real spiritually led person, you better be prepared for your cherished beliefs to be crushed and defeated as I have done so here now enough times to call a halt to the slaughter.

lol

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“What people do is they confuse cynicism with skepticism. Cynicism is ‘you can’t change anything, everything sucks, there’s no point to anything.’ Skepticism is, ‘well, I’m not so sure.’” -Bill Nye