Today, we talk with Joe Klinker, a father of three, the creator of Tiny Saints, and a seminary dropout turned Coast Guard communications director. Joe and Marcellino dive right in, talking about the move away from perfectionism into true expression and freedom, in both art and faith. Joe tells the heartbreaking, powerful story of how Tiny Saints came to be—and all the risks and joys of starting the business. He offers insight into what our art and faith need: wrestling, learning, humility, a search for truth that isn’t stifling or destructive to others. His journey away from a heavily apologetics-based faith life culminates in a profound story about learning to love his LGBT neighbors.