EPA ban on wood stoves is freezing out rural America

It seems that even wood isn’t green or renewable enough anymore. The EPA has recently banned the production and sale of 80% of America’s current wood-burning stoves, the oldest heating method known to mankind and mainstay of rural homes and many of our nation’s poorest residents. The agency’s stringent one-size-fits-all rules apply equally to heavily air-polluted cities and far cleaner plus typically colder off-grid wilderness areas such as large regions of Alaska and the American West.

While the EPA’s most recent regulations aren’t altogether new, their impacts will nonetheless be severe. Whereas restrictions had previously banned wood-burning stoves that didn’t limit fine airborne particulate emissions to 15 micrograms per cubic meter (μg/m3) of air, the change will impose a maximum 12 μg/m3 limit. To put this amount in context, the EPA estimates that secondhand tobacco smoke in a closed car can expose a person to 3,000-4,000 μg/m3 of particulates.

Most wood stoves that warm cabin and home residents from coast to coast cannot meet that standard. Older stoves that don’t cannot be traded in for updated types, but instead must be rendered inoperable, destroyed, or recycled as scrap metal.

The impacts of the EPA ruling will affect many families. According to the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2011 survey statistics, 2.4 million American housing units (12% of all homes) burned wood as their primary heating fuel, compared with 7% that depended upon fuel oil.

Local governments in some states have gone even further than the EPA, banning not only the sale of noncompliant stoves, but even their use as fireplaces. As a result, owners face fines for infractions. Puget Sound, Washington, is one such location. Montréal, Canada, proposes to eliminate all fireplaces within its city limits.

Only weeks after the EPA enacted its new stove rules, attorneys general of seven states sued the agency to crack down on wood-burning water heaters as well. The lawsuit was filed by Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, and Vermont, all predominantly Democrat states. Claiming that the new EPA regulations didn’t go far enough to decrease particle pollution levels, the plaintiffs cited agency estimates that outdoor wood boilers will produce more than 20% of wood-burning emissions by 2017. A related suit was filed by the environmental group EarthJustice.

Did EPA require a motivational incentive to tighten its restrictions? Sure, about as much as Br’er Rabbit needed to persuade Br’er Fox to throw him into the briar patch. This is but another example of EPA and other government agencies working with activist environmental groups to sue and settle on claims that afford leverage to enact new regulations which they lack statutory authority to otherwise accomplish.

“Sue and Settle “ practices, sometimes referred to as “friendly lawsuits,” are cozy deals through which far-left radical environmental groups file lawsuits against federal agencies wherein court-ordered “consent decrees” are issued based upon a prearranged settlement agreement they collaboratively craft together in advance behind closed doors. Then, rather than allowing the entire process to play out, the agency being sued settles the lawsuit by agreeing to move forward with the requested action both they and the litigants want.

And who pays for this litigation? All too often we taxpayers are put on the hook for legal fees of both colluding parties. According to a 2011 GAO report, this amounted to millions of dollars awarded to environmental organizations for EPA litigations between 1995 and 2010. Three “Big Green” groups received 41% of this payback, with Earthjustice accounting for 30% ($4,655,425). Two other organizations with histories of lobbying for regulations EPA wants while also receiving agency fundng are the American Lung Association (ALA) and the Sierra Club.

In addition, the Department of Justice forked over at least $43 million of our money defending the EPA in court between 1998 and 2010. This didn’t include money spent by the EPA for its legal costs in connection with those ripoffs, because the EPA doesn’t keep track of its attorneys’ time on a case-by-case basis.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has concluded that Sue and Settle rulemaking is responsible for many of EPA’s “most controversial, economically significant regulations that have plagued the business community for the past few years.” Included are regulations on power plants, refineries, mining operations, cement plants, chemical manufacturers, and a host of other industries. Such consent decree-based rulemaking enables EPA to argue to Congress: “The court made us do it.”

Directing special attention to these congressional end run practices, Louisiana Senator David Vitter, top Republican on the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, has launched an investigation. Last year he asked his Louisiana Attorney General Buddy Caldwell to join with AG’s of 13 other states who filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) seeking all correspondence between EPA and a list of 80 environmental, labor union, and public interest organizations that have been party to litigation since the start of the Obama Administration.

Other concerned and impacted parties have little influence over such court procedures and decisions. While the environmental group is given a seat at the table, outsiders who are most impacted are excluded, with no opportunity to object to the settlements. No public notice about the settlement is released until the agreement is filed in court…after the damage has been done.

In a letter to Caldwell, Senator Vitter wrote: “The collusion between federal bureaucrats and the organizations entering consent agreements under a shroud of secrecy represents the antithesis of a transparent government, and your participation in the FOIA request will help Louisianans understand the process by which these settlements were reached.”

Fewer citizens would challenge the EPA’s regulatory determinations were it not for its lack of accountability and transparency in accomplishing through a renegade pattern of actions what they cannot achieve through democratic legislative processes.

A recent example sets unachievable CO2 emission limits for new power plants. As I reported in my January 14 column, a group within the EPA’s own Science Advisory Board (SAB) determined that the studies upon which that regulation was based had never been responsibly peer reviewed, and that there was no evidence that those limits can be accomplished using available technology.

Compared with huge consequences of the EPA’s regulatory war on coal, the fuel source that provides more than 40% of America’s electricity, a clamp-down on humble residential wood-burning stoves and future water heaters may seem to many people as a merely a trifling or inconsequential matter. That is, unless it happens to significantly affect your personal life.

As a Washington Times editorial emphasized, the ban is of great concern to many families in cold remote off-grid locations. It noted, for example, that “Alaska’s 663,000 square miles is mostly forestland, offering residents and abundant source of affordable firewood. When county officials floated a plan to regulate the burning of wood, residents were understandably inflamed.”

Quoting Representative Tammie Wilson speaking to the Associated Press, the Times reported: “Everyone wants clean air. We just want to make sure that we can also heat our homes.” Wilson continued: “Rather than fret over the EPA’s computer–model–based warning about the dangers of inhaling soot from wood smoke, residents have more pressing concerns on their minds as the immediate risk of freezing when the mercury plunges.”

And speaking of theoretical computer model-based warnings, where’s that global warming when we really need it?

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357 Comments

OK CFACT gimme the facts: when did this happen? When does it go into effect?I get so tired of reading articles that don’t report the basics: who what when and where are left out too often.

Spanky Quigman
January 31, 2014 at 4:41 PM

That’s because CFACT is actually selling C-sorta-FACTs. There’s a grain of truth (the EPA is mandating that starting in 2015 wood-burning stoves have to burn more cleanly than current models), but it’s then extrapolated out far enough that it’s just a flat-out lie (“Older stoves that don’t [meet the new EPA standards] cannot be traded in for updated types, but instead must be rendered inoperable, destroyed, or recycled as scrap metal”; the regulations make clear they apply only to new production, not existing installations).

muslimmustgo
January 30, 2014 at 9:59 AM

The “epa” is a lawless communist entity that imposes immoral laws,not to be obeyed!! We still live in a free nation for now!!

artemis133
January 31, 2014 at 12:52 PM

No we don’t.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 3:32 PM

No it is not. it is a slow moving government department that is slow and ineffective at implementing laws that would protect human health. You wouldn’t even know what communism is, if you thought it was lawless. You also don’t understand morality, if you think that having the right to pollute at will, without reference to other people’s health and opinion is moral. You don’t live in a free nation, as there are many people who are not free in our nation. People who are not free to enjoy their lives and homes free from the wood smoke pollution. Wood smoke is an evil that the EPA should regulate more fully.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:18 PM

So do you live completely off the grid? How do you get your electricity? Do you walk and bike EVERYWHERE? Do you grow your own food? Do you wear only clothes and only use products that you made from materials on your land thus avoiding petroleum based products. Do you not live in our modern society which requires oil/gas/coal/wood to fuel virtually EVERY activity? Unless you do all those thing then you are nothing but a hypocrite and you should STFU

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:33 PM

You can do all those things and do them in ways that minimize your pollution.

And even getting electricity from coal it is cleaner to do that to heat your house than to burn wood, because the pollution can be economically and effectively scrubbed at source at the power station instead of being small point sources all in residential neighborhoods.

So calls of hypocrisy are just plain wrong. It shows a complete lack of understanding on your part. It proves you’re a dumb cunt, rather than anything else.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:42 PM

You people have a problem with everything that people do to live. Today it’s wood stoves, tomorrow it’s fracking. There is always something. It isn’t just one thing with you people – it’s many things.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:44 PM

There are many things that should be done better. Air quality, water quality, biodiversity, social justice, these are all important.

I know it is hard for the cretinous to get it all in their little brains at once, but that is the real world. Big and complex.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:55 PM

Social justice? What a commie. You just gave yourself away right there

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:58 PM

So you believe in social injustice?

Slave owner are you?

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:58 PM

Oh please. What horse manure.

cazie
February 2, 2014 at 7:16 AM

The majority of slave owners were Democrats…and the slavery carried out today is rampant in Muslim countries…oh Cliffy, you’re so smart-NOT!

cazie
February 2, 2014 at 7:14 AM

More name calling from the ‘tolerant’ left…social justice-you mean stealing from those that do and giving to those that just feel entitled. Air and water quality has steadily improved in our country-but you just keep listening to your commie professors at the indoctrination centers we call college..can you wrap your cretinous brain around the fact that most don’t care what you have to say…

Steven Bradbury
February 2, 2014 at 11:54 PM

Maybe, but air quality has a long way to go to get cleaner.

I welcome regulating wood stoves to the point of prohibition.

bobfairlane
February 3, 2014 at 1:13 AM

My neighbor has a wood stove. He hardly ever uses it, except the coldest nights of the year. It must be nice to have the option to burn all the dead sticks around here, and logs that people give away as trash after the branches are cleaned up after storms, instead of paying higher electric bills.

Steven Bradbury
February 3, 2014 at 4:45 AM

Yeah, well I had a cunt of a neighbor who burnt every night for 8 months of the year. It absolutely killed my enjoyment of life and I couldn’t get the cunt to stop, so I had to move.

Total bans are appropriate. Only a truly demented cunt burns wood.

Rush Limbaugh
February 1, 2014 at 4:40 PM

I thought you said you lived in a free nation? Yet you call yourself “MuslimMustGo”, so presumably that freedom doesn’t extend to freedom of religion. That sir makes you an A-grad asshole hypocrite.

Hypocrite.

Hypocrite.

Mental midget hypocrite.

rhcrest
February 3, 2014 at 4:46 AM

Hey Rush, I hate muslims becasue they worship a god, and it is really silly. It makes a mockery of my god.

Sarah Pascal
February 7, 2014 at 8:00 PM

Oh you’re a racist now rhcrest?

What a charming prick you must be.

Born Free
February 1, 2014 at 4:56 PM

I remember being free but I see us trading places with the communists in China. When I went to China I found that they are freer than us now in many ways. In those few remaining ways that we may be somehow freer, I see us running totally in the wrong direction to soon lose even those freedoms.

The bottom line: The “communists” in China have learned some hard lessons and are returning to freedoms while we race toward a state of absolute tyranny.

Don’t all of you have that fuzzy feeling of being taken care of and sleep well at night knowing the EPA is such a noble steward on spending your hard earned tax dollars.
James H. Rust, Professor of nuclear engineering

Spanky Quigman
January 31, 2014 at 5:31 PM

Did you read anything on the EPA site to which you linked? The regulations regarding pollution emissions for future manufactor in no affect existing wood-burning stoves. For example, from your link, drilling down to http://www2.epa.gov/residential-wood-heaters/understanding-residential-wood-heater-rules: “The proposed rule would not affect existing woodstoves and other wood-burning heaters currently in use in people’s homes… EPA did not include new indoor fireplaces for regulation in the proposal…”.

In what way would you characterize that as fascist? Your overheated rhetoric both betrays your dogmatic position and sadly trivializes actual fascism, which tends to be a little more ambitious in aims than reducing particulate pollution.

JeffT
January 31, 2014 at 10:56 PM

And when you need to replace a wood stove?

lotsoffish
February 1, 2014 at 12:46 AM

You buy a GOOD ONE that is highly efficient and burns CLEAN. Got a problem with that?

angfa1
February 1, 2014 at 1:53 AM

I already have a good wood stove P that will last another 20 years. I certainly not going to stop using it until they take it at gun point.

Spanky Quigman
February 1, 2014 at 12:00 PM

They’re not going to take it at gunpoint. That’s the point: these rules do not apply to your existing wood stove. Which means that they do not apply to your existing wood stove. So your existing wood stove? It’s fine. Is that clear at last?

angfa1
February 1, 2014 at 12:37 PM

Sorry Spanky I didn’t see your post and the article stated you had to scrap you existing stove. I was just assuming that Larry Bell had his facts correct.

Stephanie
February 7, 2014 at 7:59 PM

Since when has Larry Belll known jack shit about anything. His brother Taco may be pretty cool, but he is a fat faced liar.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 3:50 PM

Of course they should take away the filthy old ones too. Grandfathering in just means the policy will fail to clean the air in any meaningful way.

Old for new replacement programs are also ineffective because replacing a wood stove with a wood stove still means you’ve got a wood stove. It failed in Libby, Montana, and everywhere else it’s been tried. The only effective policy reduces the number of wood burners. Truly effective policy reduces the number of wood burners to nought.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:31 PM

They should take you away

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:37 PM

Don’t be a cunt rhcrest.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:38 PM

Shut up

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:46 PM

Elsewhere you say you can say what you goddam want to, but you tell me to shut up. You fucking hypocrite.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:52 PM

You’re the one calling me a cunt. you call me that i will tell you anything i damn well please

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:53 PM

But you are a dumb cunt.

You don’t even understand global warming.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:53 PM

Anyone who believes in globull warming is the dumbest of the dumb

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:57 PM

Sorry I got that wrong. People who are well read on global warming issues seem to understand it better than me. I don’t know much about it, but am willing to learn. I’m going to start resaerching things now.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:58 PM

Good maybe you will realize that it’s nothing but a big hoax

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM

That can be arranged.

When I was forced to move due to the pollution in my neighborhood, I was left with that choice. Move or shoot. It was only the threat of the big house that caused me to choose to move. I would have had no qualms putting a bullet through the head of the cunt that smoked me out, because he knew he was smoking me out of my house, and he didn’t care. He use wood to bully me. I still want him dead. And when he does die (from natural causes, or more likely cancer as he’s both a smoker and a wood burner) I am going to dance and then piss on his grave.

Except that a “good one” costs how many times more than a “bad one”? And requires how much more fuel to be as effective, cord for cord, as the older one?

You do realize people burn wood for *cost-effectiveness*, right? Or because they can’t get any other type of fuel. Adding another financial–or physical–burden to people that can scarcely afford it is fascist in that it puts the Environment* above people.

That it’s based on computer models that, to date, have proven to be wildly incorrect, re: carbon, is immoral and unethical but, then, what care you for such things, right? You aren’t outside chopping down the wood or struggling to heat your home, so it’s easy to look down your nose at those that do.

In other words, SHUT UP, YOU EXPLAINED.

*Capital ‘E’ because, to the people behind this scheme, it’s their god.

Spanky Quigman
February 1, 2014 at 12:07 PM

Actually one of the point of the newer stoves is that they will generally be more efficient, emitting fewer particulates to provide the same amount of heat. So all those people will actually benefit by getting more energy from the same amount of fuel.

Also, this has absolutely nothing to do with carbon control. Dead wood (i.e. the kind used for firewood) is considered unsequestered carbon, since it generally ends up back in the environment in one form or another. The point of the EPA regulations on wood-burning stoves is to control air-borne particulate pollution, which, as noted in the links from Utah that I posted elsewhere on this thread, causes immediate and long-term health problems. So it’s not a matter of “computer models”, it’s a matter of real-world experience that’s led Utah–you know, the liberal squish capital of America–to flat-out ban the use of wood-burning stoves during particular times of the year.

And where in here do you see me looking down my nose at anyone? Nowhere, that’s where. I’ve had friends who’ve lived in cabins in the forest that were heated by wood-burning stoves. I use a fireplace for additional heat in the winter. You’re imagining me as some cartoon version of the liberal dictator you fear, but the fact is that that whole cartoon is based on your own fantasies fueled by ignorance (ignorance evidenced here by the fact that you’re trying to bring up climate-change models to counter rules that have nothing to do with carbon control and climate change).

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 3:45 PM

Replace it with a clean form of heating that doesn’t fuck up your neighborhood.

Even the so called “clean” EPA ones aren’t clean at all for these reasons:

“Clean” is relative. Burning wood is 1000s of times dirtier than burning natural gas (in terms of particulate pollution) so cleaning up wood relative to old wood stoves even by a factor of ten means that the new stove still pollutes 100s of times dirtier than burning natural gas. So burn natural gas instead. (Bottled if you’re not on the grid).

EPA “clean” stoves are still incredibly polluted and allow about 7.8grams of soot for every kilo of fuel. Australia is 4.0 g/kg (and they’re tightening them now). New Zealand is 1.5g/kg. UK is bringing in 0.4g/kg/ (and 1.5g/kg is still really, really bad – see what it is does to a whole country http://cleanairnz.com/2013/08/10/100-polluted-new-zealand/)

And manufacturers that claim EPA certification do so based on laboratory testing, and when later tested in real world conditions they pollute a lot more than the manufacturers claim. This is because people who are stupid enough to buy one are too stupid to operate one, plus the laboratory testing is completely unrealistic.

It’s pretty simple, if you have another house within 500 yards of your own, or if you live in a valley, or if you live in a house with children (as you will be poisoning them whether you wanted to or not), don’t burn wood.

artemis133
January 31, 2014 at 12:53 PM

This is beyond stupid. How much more are we going to take?

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 3:33 PM

What’s beyond stupid? All the dumb comments from the dumb commenters here who don’t understand the first thing about living in a civil society?

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:11 PM

Hey you know what would be good? How about if the entire country stops producing food and energy to deliver to you you holier than thou people and you can all starve and freeze to death. Since you seem to have such an issue with farmers and those who produce energy, lets see you go without both. I’m all for it. I’d personally like to throw you all off a bridge

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:18 PM

In what way would food production change if urban air quality was protected by banning wood burning?

Environmental laws protect air and water quality (or they should). How is the drinking water in Kentucky at the moment?

Of course, in a working society, there should be strong, effective, scientifically based environmental regulation, unperverted by commercial interests.

Doesn’t much sound like the present day United States does it? All you simpleton libertarians are allowing the extremely wealthy to get rich at the expense of everyone else. It doesn’t have to be that way. There can be wealth without environmental degradation. It is not a dichotomy. It is not an either or. It does require average intelligence or above to understand it. Does that make me holier than thou? It makes me closer to God than the Devil. Now what do you want? A Free for all, pollute anything anywhere policy? I’d suggest your morality is bankrupt?

30,000 less deaths annually caused by wood smoke pollution might mean there are some extra mouths to feed, but that is negligible in the scheme of things.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:20 PM

Because you environmentalists are against EVERYTHING that involves the land – farmers, ranchers, oil drillers, frackers, coal miners etc. I really would prefer you people all drop dead. You would rather people starve and freeze to death and go jobless and homeless in order to save some stupid tree or some stupid fish no one ever heard of or cares about.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:21 PM

The best environmentalists I know are farmers. And the best farmers I know are environmentalists.

Oil drilling, fracking and coal mining should be strictly controlled, or look what has just happened in Kentucky?

I really would prefer is all you people would get educated.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:21 PM

Hopefully yours will be one of the 30,000 deaths

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:22 PM

You really are a dumb cunt, aren’t you?

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:22 PM

No i’m not dumb at all. I see what you b*astards all about

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:23 PM

Sorry, you really are dumb.

And a bit of a cunt.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:24 PM

Awww you commies don’t like it when people see you for what you really are. You’re a watermelon – green on the outside and red on the in

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:28 PM

I’m a wealthy capitalist, and I employ 27 people.

I don’t hire stupid people though.

$14.7m annual turnover last year.

Major exporter of a certain type of health product.

What do you? Sit in a cabin masturbating all day?

You’re not a watermelon. You’re a moldy dog turd. Fluffy mold on the outside, and shit for brains in the middle.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:40 PM

Oh so you’re just a big fat hypocrite. It’s ok for you to do whatever you need to to make a living/live while polluting the earth but the heck with everyone else.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:42 PM

Huh? Now are you calling a selfish capitalist who runs his business in the most non-polluting form he can a hypocrite?

Sounds to me like you are a communist.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:57 PM

You’re a commie. I can smell you people a mile away.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:58 PM

Yet you can’t smell wood smoke.

I’d suggest some kind of mental retardation.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:59 PM

Commie

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 7:00 PM

Actually communism is the best form of government.

I love tractors and Kim Ill Wind, the leader of North Korea. I want to have sex with him and his big chubby body.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 7:01 PM

Then move there

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 7:02 PM

I already live there. I am Kim Kill Song’s love child.

I, rhcrest, of Pyongyang, am a very naughty boy.

Phil McMorrow
February 2, 2014 at 1:01 PM

You must be very unhappy. Why not hang yourself?

stupid is as stupid does
February 2, 2014 at 2:13 PM

I hope they outlaw folks like these that don’t like another’s view so they comment back and forth with all sorts of vulgarity and rudeness. We live in America where we CAN say and think what we want but sadly some of you don’t know when to restrain yourselves.

Sammy Davis Jr
February 3, 2014 at 5:11 AM

You’re a bit of a stupid cockhead yourself there stupid.

88twin
October 7, 2014 at 9:56 PM

i had to say something u are so full of shit cliff if u were making 14 mil a yr u wouldn’t be on here trying to tell people how to live and trying to convince everyone your so smarter then everyone else your just a asshole lib trying to make your self feel good

Oscura Diosa
February 7, 2015 at 7:18 AM

The liberal idiots in their cars, climate controlled offices, climate controlled houses, are trying to tell normal people how to live screw them.

Dave
January 16, 2015 at 2:25 PM

Funny all the wealthy people I know don’t need to brag about it…People that do,usually aren’t.

Guest
November 2, 2014 at 2:02 AM

Of course, the person whose enough of an asshole to think it’s OK to burn wood in this day and age, also runs his mouth on the internet telling people he hopes his wood smoke kills them. Be glad you don’t live around me, cause I’d have to begging for the government to get involved!

BC80wf
November 2, 2014 at 2:02 AM

Of course, the person whose enough of an asshole to think it’s OK to burn wood in this day and age, also runs his mouth on the internet telling people he hopes his wood smoke kills them. Be glad you don’t live around me, cause I’d have you begging for the government to get involved!

ThomasJK
December 22, 2014 at 2:24 PM

A self-eating watermelon, maybe?

CTConservatives47
March 27, 2015 at 3:05 PM

You nailed it!

Fight4Freedom
February 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM

So this represents a “civil society”? A liberal’s version of it anyway.

Spanky Quigman
February 2, 2014 at 10:03 AM

In Cliff’s defense, rhcrest had just said that he hoped Cliff would die.

Charles Fillinger
February 12, 2014 at 8:16 PM

Liberals almost always end their debates, rhetoric and gossip with name calling.

Phil McMorrow
February 2, 2014 at 12:59 PM

Nice language, moron.

intheleupp
October 27, 2014 at 11:22 AM

Wrong. The best farmers are conservationists, not environmentalists.

CTConservatives47
March 27, 2015 at 3:04 PM

There’s a big difference between real environmentalists (farmers) and the phony political environmentalists who only use the movement as a carcas to hide their Marxist aims.

Godson54739
February 24, 2014 at 2:20 AM

I get a kick out of the statement of some fish. I helped a friend do some commercial fishing on the Mississippi River, on Lake Pepin. Which starts just south of Red Wing Minnesota and goes down to Wabasha, Minnesota. We used Saining Nets which are non Discriminative of what they catch. Another words it catches everything that is caught when the net is closed. I had been reading an article about how the Spoon Billed Catfish was totally extinct in Lake Pepin and had been for some 100 years! That morning when we dropped our nets? We caught something like 168 of them, that got caught inside of the enclosure. Ranging from around 3-4 pounds all the way up to the first one we found, which did a good job of tearing up a section of the nets at 478 pounds. The point is, just because some one doesn’t catch it on a line. Or someone else writes it on a piece of paper? Doesn’t make anything the truth! It’s nothing more, then another joke on the American people and another Attack on Your God given rights to live free, by this Bullshit Government that we have on Capital Hill. Read the 1923 Trading with the Enemy Act, to be Exact Proclamation 2039, and 2040. FDR in those 2 Proclamations Made you Me and everyone else who are free Americans, Enemies Of the Defacto Government. Now if you Look up Defacto in a Blackstone Law Dictionary? Defacto Means something that has no right being where it is at, or doing what it is doing. And the Problem dates all the way back into the early 1800’s and even earlier then that. Some tried to straighten out the system, other do nothing more then hinder it and try to kill off the way it is supposed to work. People really need to get a clue, and tell these Jerks to run our Country the way it was meant to be and stop filing frivelless lawsuites. You don’t Like what the Constitution says and Stands for? You don’t like what the Flag looks like or what It stands for? Then there’s the Door! Don’t let it hit you in your Fat ass as you are Leaving. Another words don’t leave Mad, Just Leave! Simple as that

Fight4Freedom
February 1, 2014 at 8:29 PM

Gosh, I hope they outlaw house and forest fires next! Think of all the tragedy the government would save there! They can do that right after they get the cows to stop passing gas. Please. Burning wood is a NATURAL thing. Is that too difficult to comprehend? It’s not like you are burning rubber or styrofoam. You people that got your tax deduction for claiming your wood stove…. Now the govt. knows you have one! There’s always a reason why the govt. wants to give you money. This is all about people who are jealous of the rich and want to “take out” any sort of independent people. Trouble is, the dependent people (like you) are going to learn you can’t do without us. And yes, there can be – and IS – weath without enviromental degradation. Wow. I just can’t stop shaking my head…..

Phil McMorrow
February 2, 2014 at 1:03 PM

How much smoke is generated by California and other Western State wildfires, as compared to that generated by burning wood for fuel? The Greens need to get serious if they are to be taken seriously.

Sarah Pascal
February 3, 2014 at 5:13 AM

Wild fire smoke is best avoided (and best prevented), but so too should wood smoke from all sources. In midwinter in most AMerican cities the woodsmoke that is killing you is from wood fires, not from Californina wild fires.

So wood smoke from burning wood in residential areas should be best avoided (and best prevented). I have to agree with the vulgar commenters on here that prohibition is the best solution.

Sarah Pascal
February 7, 2014 at 7:57 PM

And where is that smoke? My neighbors burn wood in my street and that is where the pollution is.

Phil, don’t be such a fucking dumb cunt. That is a stupid argument put forward by a stupid little boy.

Phil McMorrow
February 7, 2014 at 8:20 PM

Don’t go a way mad. Just go away.

BC80wf
December 3, 2014 at 4:54 PM

Are you kidding me? You think there’s no law against forest fires!?!?! What do you think happens when the police actually catch the person who started the fire? … wow… a whole new level of ignorance, even for the internet… If our government wants to ban the needless and harmful creation of wood smoke in peoples neighborhoods caused for the selfish sake of the wood burners own convenience, then they should start by banning house and wildfires… wow… as if people burn their houses down for kicks and giggles, and as if nobody thinks forest fires are a big deal… wow… wow… seriously, effin’, wow. Don’t have children.

Godson54739
February 24, 2014 at 2:31 AM

Dam, Fight 4 You hit it on the Nail Head. And said it so simply truthful!

Jake Bertz
February 2, 2014 at 12:01 PM

Most wood burning is done in rural areas. Banning it will have no effect on urban air quality.

Steven Bradbury
February 2, 2014 at 11:52 PM

Not true.
Wood smoke is a problem in my suburban neighborhood here in Detroit.

I want a complete ban.

Jake Bertz
February 3, 2014 at 12:07 AM

Are you sure it isn’t the urban decay?

Steven Bradbury
February 3, 2014 at 5:16 AM

Jake, Are you telling me I’m too stupid to discern the smell of woodsmoke? Woodsmoke smells the way it does because of benzene. Benzene causes childhood cancers (and adult cancers too).

Ever lost a child to cancer?

(Yep Detroit has a bit of a cancer too. On windy days and on summer days when no one is burning in my hood, it really is a nice place to live though).

Jake Bertz
February 3, 2014 at 4:30 PM

Well, you live in Detroit, so your intelligence certainly is up for question.

Godson54739
February 25, 2014 at 1:48 PM

Steven Bradbury, Benzene is an additive found in Treated woods, Not in any Natural wood, that hasn’t been used in some sort construction. You will also find High levels of Arsenic gases in those treated woods. So whoever is Burning, whatever, in your Community? Should probably quit burning the Pallets, or Construction Grade Lumber that they are using for burning. Plus the Last time I checked? There were not a whole lot of trees to cut down in your City. But Plenty of fallen down buildings to pick burnable remnants from.

Phil McMorrow
February 2, 2014 at 12:58 PM

I have lived in rural New England all of my life and have never heard of anyone getting rich by providing firewood to those who want it or in building wood burning stoves.

simpel-folk
August 7, 2014 at 4:08 PM

If 30,000 extra people is negligible to you, then why do you pretent to care so much?

intheleupp
October 27, 2014 at 11:21 AM

If you want to save lives that much Cliff, then help stop abortion.

Dave
January 16, 2015 at 2:23 PM

30,000 less deaths annually caused by wood smoke pollution

Another fabricated number to suit a political cause….

CTConservatives47
March 27, 2015 at 3:02 PM

Cliff, you are beyond stupid. It is leftists like you who can’t think clearly. Environmentalism is the refuge of simple-minded do-gooders who are dangerous to themselves and others. You must be part of the Occupy Wall Street movement, the latest incarnation of the those displaced by the fall of the Soviet Union.

firftrmark
February 17, 2016 at 5:54 PM

Your point is just like BLM. Some lives more important than others? Your regulations on everything and zero tolerance costs lives! How about a person put out of a job and depression sets in and he or she takes the lives of their family? How about the parent or parents that cannot afford the energy you people deem they should have has a heart attack dealing with the stress? Scientifically based environmental regulation that deems some jobs obsolete in a country that needs JOBS! Those jobs that made it possible for children to go on to higher education! How many lives will energy poverty cost ? Research how many lives it is costing in the EU! Poor lives do not matter says the elitist hypocrites! How am I burning wood to heat my home commercial ? How many lives will it cost when the EPA SS storms private property. Killed over a wood burning stove or fined into poverty.

Irvin Chase
February 2, 2014 at 1:38 PM

OUTSTANDING IDEA!!!

Fight4Freedom
February 1, 2014 at 8:22 PM

Yes, I see how civil you are. Typical.

Larry Bell
February 3, 2014 at 11:54 PM

What is civil? Calling a cunt a cunt, or doing this to an innocent neighbor living next door?

I Ask Larry Bell, what is it that these People are burning for Fuel? I’ve Burned wood all 54 years of my Life. I am not on a respirator, nor do I have Lung problems caused by the wood smoke I’ve lived around all of my life. If people burn Construction grade woods, or treated woods of any type, to start there fires? You will be sick. So will those around you. Treated Woods carry neat Poisons such as Benzene gases, Arsenic Gases just to name a few of the toxins in them. Natural wood does not throw off these gases that are killing people. I was a Wild fire jumper and I’ve been down wind of thousands of Fires in nature. Now Why am I not dieing from the lung diseases this says you get from wood fires? Better yet? Go stand next to a home that is burning and see how long you last from the Fumes off of that fire. Ignorance is Bliss. And calling Names get’s nothing Accomplished. The video you show? Is Propaganda. Nothing more then , Like the young Lady asking the snipers to stop killing them in the Ukraine. Nothing more then Pompous BS.

Grand2833
August 7, 2014 at 6:11 PM

We can certainly copy the actions of the European countries that allow tens of thousands of their citizens to freeze to death each year. Last winter 24,000 people froze to death in Great Britain alone. Is that really something Americans will accept? I don’t think so.

Phil McMorrow
February 2, 2014 at 12:55 PM

Exactly. So poor people no longer will have the option of gathering fuel with an axe (a fuel which is self-perpetuating if properly managed) and instead burn Oil, either directly or indirectly, which may have the impact of enriching those who despise us and threaten us.

Spidey
February 4, 2014 at 2:43 AM

Phil,
You’re ignoring the particulate pollution problem, so

wally12
February 29, 2016 at 1:57 PM

@Spidey: You appear to be a liberal who thinks the federal government and the EPA agency have all the answers. They do not. It is one thing to limit wood burning in a city like NY where soot and particulate emission would impact health of the city residences. It is quite another thing to eliminate wood burning in much less populated areas where a high particulate emission rate would be acceptable and not impact health to hazardous level. Our liberal government and the EPA have taken the tack of one ruling fits all. It must not be allowed. My vote will be to limit the power of the federal government and to make the EPA responsible for ruling that are sound and approved by Congress and not ruled by the president.

Genius! This video shows people having difficulty breathing, and we are supposed to just assume they cannot breathe because of wood smoke?? What moron would believe that?

Cliff Beckwith
February 7, 2014 at 7:55 PM

What moron wouldn’t?

Are you saying people make up their lung disease and fake their symptoms?

Lung disease is real and so are the causes.

Did you know that in New Zelaand 56% of homes are heated with wood and the childhood asthma rate is 6 times the world average. There are precious little other sources of air pollution in New Zealand other than wood smoke. You do the math,

making_pie
February 9, 2014 at 6:12 AM

lol you Obumatard faggot. Way to promote the NWO.

Mollie Norris
September 30, 2014 at 9:44 PM

Asthma is an autoimmune disease. It’s onset can be a result of an infection, allergy, stress, including exercise, and some air pollutants . Actually, it’s pretty common around the world for people to sit around campfires, grill outdoors, as well as using fireplaces and wood stoves.
I have asthma, so I’ve learned a few things about it, although my worst symptoms are caused by my allergy to rats (my kids’ former pets), which is common.
I’m sure there aren’t any rats in New Zealand.

Many people who have asthma have food allergies which restrict pulmonary function, others do not have asthma and have RADS ( reactive airway dysfunction which is toxin induced and misdiagnosed as asthma.

Massachusetts EPA is basically a placebo as they allow the entire railway companies to leave unmaned trains with cars with hazardous materials attached to them for 72 hours at a clip poisoning citizens and entire neighborhoods on a daily basis. Over the holidays, unmaned engines were left in Western Mass. fo a total of 180 hours poisoning residents, not to mention the noise….. It is a corporate payola letter agency, with enviro agencies getting their tax breaks by going thrpugh the proving to gov they are active motions. The Thanksgiving ice storm left me without power in the early part of the storm, trees took out phone, once mobile phone generators ran out, no mobile service, all street lines were hanging across my entire drive with no power or phones for 4 days. My wood stove kept me safe and fed when no one was coming out due to the holiday…and I am on the electric companies medical notification list.

Mollie Norris
January 8, 2015 at 11:27 PM

Many of the causes of pulmonary dysfunction you mentioned are autoimmune diseases – they’re allergies. I don’t have time now to look up the pathologies of each or to research which Ig compounds are associated with them.
“Placebo is appropriate, but it doesn’t directly address the divergence between environmental protection and carbon credit investment that we’re currently experiencing. People incorrectly correlate IPCC reports, worthless in any case, with protection of the planet and a decrease in pollution and its health hazards. The fact that soot has significantly decreased the albedo of arctic ice, for example, isn’t newsworthy because it can’t conveniently be converted to dollars and cents, so there’s no means of penalizing the US for its production in Asia. Environmental destruction by UN NGOs, likewise, isn’t politically correct and escapes notice in the media.
One of my sons has/had a potentially fatal and extremely rare autoimmune disease, iga nephropathy, correlated with mercury exposure. His symptoms first appeared after his father was showing him how cool Hg is – the way it forms balls, etc. As a chemist who worked with it daily I agree, and I also know that if you’re close enough to see it, you’re breathing enough Hg vapor to poison you, and our 3 year-old was much more sensitive than an adult. He’s had no symptoms for nearly 20 years, but it can relapse and progress to kidney failure at any time, and since my son is also a chemist now, I tend to be aware of environmental toxins and unpleasant surprises.

You far-left loons always fake and fabricate data to fit Saul Alinsky dictates. Like the Muslim “lying to infidels is fine” modus of operation, the far-left is in 100% compliance.

Bluegrallis
December 24, 2014 at 5:28 PM

I have asthma and this winter is the first time in 35 years I am not heating with wood, only because of a car wreck that messed up my mobility. I have never been bothered by wood smoke from a wood burning stove at any time. I do steer clear of idiots trying to burn wet leaves in their ditch, totally different thing there.

You are just expected to acceptct huh e touchy feely BS from the lefties without question.

Godson54739
February 24, 2014 at 12:59 AM

Now, I’m not doing any Name calling , because that’s pure ignorance in
itself. So! Let’s get down to Brass tacks here and Deal with the subject
of Air Pollution. To all you Environmentalists out there who think you
have all the answers. Big city pollution has nothing to do with Number
one, Second hand smoke from Cigarets, or does it have any thing to do
with wood smoke. What it does have to do with is the fact that, How many
vehicles run through that town or city? How Many Diesel Trucks do
Delivery’s? How many Diesel Locomotives do you have running product in
and out of your city? Now that those questions are asked? What is the
nutritional intake of these people? What is their diet comprised of?
What kind of supplements (Vitamins, Minerals and the such) are they
taking daily. What kind of meds are being supplied to the Area and from
whom? We Humans are totally ignorant of what is going on around us
today. Do you realize Dog food has more nutritional value to it then the
food you buy from the store? Diabetes is caused from mineral
deficiencies, Cancer is caused by Vitamin, and Mineral deficiencies, so
are most ailments out there. Now? What I really wish to Know is this.
Are you gonna pay my heating bill when the temps here hit 40-60 below?
Propane is at over $4.00 a gallon here. It cost a friend over $4000.00
to fill his tank which lasts him roughly a month, in the extreme cold.
You gonna pay for me to prepare my food and heat My home? You wish to
complain about Air Pollution? Start with anything that is Diesel out
there, dumping raw fuel into the air we breath. Do you realize a Diesel
engine is less then 60% efficient? Now that’s a small part of the
Pollution problem. Now you go to a Diesel Train engine that transports
some 78% of the Produce in this Country. They dump over 4 million parts
of raw Diesel into the air every minute that they are under power. I’ve
heard People moving out into the country complain about a Dairy Farmer
spreading his Cow Manure out on his fields! Even watched the court
proceedings as he tried to Sue the farmer for Polluting his air with
that farm fresh fragrance. The Judge told him to Move back to the City,
if he didn’t like the smell.
Ignorance is Bliss! You need to
learn what you are complaining about before you open your mouths. The
Medical field in this Country is Called Medical Practice for a reason.
Because they use us, as their own personal Ginnea Pigs to Practice on.
Ask any Scientist that is practicing Science. They will tell you that
Science is not Exact, but is only in Theory. The EPA in this country is a
Joke, Just like the FDA. The Poisons that they allow these asshole to
put into our Food and drugs? Are an Monstrosity. The additives in most
Pops that the public drinks robs your body of Calcium, because it’s the
only way our body can break it down. You need also to follow the Radio
active cloud that runs over us now constantly. Because Radiation is what
causes cancer. Talk to the Government about the Chem trails coming off
of the Jets that Fly over our heads? Aluminum Oxide is one of the
Ingredients in that trail, they use it to seed the Clouds to make it
rain, (So they Say) Causes Cancer. Let alone all of the Biological
ingredients in it. Bola-Bola Fever, Hoof and Mouth, Anthrax, just to
name a few. Where the sickness coming from? Look to your Federal
Government. Look to the soil the Farmers are growing our food in. It’s
been depleted of all mineral and nutritional values since back in the
60’s if you listen to the Scientists. You wish to stop wood burning?
Work on the other things first. Because if you go with wood fires? You
best start hopping on all of those forest fires and brush fires that
criss-cross the world because that smoke might reach your Lungs and
cause asthma. The Information I just posted is available to any of you
who feel like looking. What it boils down to? Is how many Idiots can
they get to back them, and doing it behind closed doors to get it done.
That should be and is the Bitch most will have , as well they should.
Have a Blessed day one and all.

So what! Is it better for people to freeze in their homes? Is it better for children to see their parent or parents unemployed or not being able to afford energy , feed and clothe their children and deal with stress and depression that affects families? If you cannot afford energy or lose your job screw you ,,,is that the way it is?

joy
June 26, 2016 at 9:56 PM

I’m sure chem trails and corporate air pollution is what takes his breath away.

Mnestheus
May 2, 2016 at 1:11 AM

About another Larry Bell screed a week , I should guess.

cazie
January 31, 2014 at 12:56 PM

Do not comply! Buy your stove now folks, and some extra piping. They can kiss my a$$.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 3:35 PM

You do realise that just makes you a selfish fuckwit who doesn’t care about their neighbors, or their health, or about the air you’ve got to breathe? Do you breathe air? Why would you want that to be tainted with chemicals that cause you harm? Are you mentally defective? Talking of which there have been studies (in South Korea and Poland) that chronic exposure to woodsmoke in children reduces their average IQ testing by 5 points.You must have breathe a lot of wood smoke.

FEDUP365
February 1, 2014 at 5:31 PM

Why don’t you go fuck yourself Cliff Beckwith you little faggot, whinning, crying son of a bitch, tree hugging ass hole. You some kind of global warming wanna be scientist. You going to tell me you dont have a drivers liscense, never been in a combustabile engine driven automobile, never turn your lights on and you wipe your ass on an old rug,never ate meat from an animal. SO Cliff as I see it your still part of the problem, Do us a favor and go JUMP OFF A CLIFF. Literally, do it

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 5:57 PM

Don’t be a cunt mate.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:25 PM

Looks like i’m not the only one that wants you to drop dead

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:34 PM

Don’t you be a cunt either rhcrest.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:35 PM

I’ll say what i damn well please.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:40 PM

Doesn’t make what you say worth a dime.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:41 PM

Yours isn’t worth a penny

cazie
February 2, 2014 at 7:09 AM

Wow…another obamonite spewing ‘global warming’ propaganda hate. How did we ever live through the days of almost everyone having wood burners?? Hope you don’t drive, or get on the bus-how about the chemicals there? Don’t fart either…who’s mentally defective Cliffy.

Steven Bradbury
February 2, 2014 at 11:57 PM

Cazie, I wouldn’t be so quick. It could be you who is mentally deficient. Car exhausts are cleaner than wood burning. 1 wood burner puts out in one night the equivalent of 15,000 miles driven by a diesel SUV.

Learn some facts before you think you know anything. You really are trying to compare apples and oranges. Wood smoke is in a league of its own when it comes to the magnitude of the pollution.

A ban is best.

cazie
February 2, 2014 at 9:08 AM

You don’t realize your government is killing you with flouride and chlorine in your water supply, chemtrail chemicals in your air, food dyes and chemicals in your food supply–give us all a break. I’ll take the wood smoke. Don’t insult us with your lack of reality and the real culprits.

Steven Bradbury
February 2, 2014 at 11:58 PM

Well, now you really have shown us you know fuck all about chemistry.

You have no idea on the magnitudes of the risks involved. If you did you’d realize how stupid comparing fluoride to woodsmoke is.

cazie
February 3, 2014 at 8:16 AM

Your vitriol and ignorance are astounding…keep drinkin’ your kool-aid, and make sure it’s made with good ole’ tap water. I’d take my chances with woodsmoke anyday over the chemicals your’re ingesting everyday. Amazing what lefties think they know.

Heron
February 3, 2014 at 1:48 PM

It is amazing how fucking ignorant you are prepared to show yourself publicly.

Time for enrolling in chemistry 101 for you.

cazie
February 3, 2014 at 2:44 PM

Heron-you, Steven and the rest of the libtards are a disgrace. Sheeple to say the least, and arrogant beyond belief. When my generation is dead and gone you can live on your sustainable wind (bird grinders) and solar. Until then, you can kiss our arses libby. We’ll do as we please…breathe deep (my woodsmoke)!

Marianne
February 7, 2014 at 7:52 PM

Cazie, If you assaulted me with your wood smoke, I’d assault you with my baseball bat.

cazie
February 9, 2014 at 5:56 AM

Marianne…just like a libby. Can’t verbally win an argument so you resort to violence. But I’d be glad to oblige you if you think you’ll be successful coming at me with a bat. Like a famous conservative once said “make my day!”

Spanky Quigman
January 31, 2014 at 1:50 PM

This article is mistaken on many different points. I don’t know if Larry Bell is misinformed or lying, but on a VERY important point he is definitely wrong. Specifically, the new regulations are for new production models starting in 2015. Existing wood-burning stoves are not affected, so the idea that people that rely on wood for their heat will no longer be able to use it is completely wrong:

“Older stoves that don’t [meet the new standards] cannot be traded in for updated types, but instead must be rendered inoperable, destroyed, or recycled as scrap metal.”

“The standards govern the manufacture and sale of new residential wood heating devices and do not apply to existing wood stoves and other wood heaters installed in peoples’ homes.”

As far as this all being based on conjecture and pointy-headed theorizing, i.e. “the EPA’s computer–model–based warning about the dangers of inhaling soot from wood smoke…” that’s also mistaken. Wood smoke pollution is a real thing and has led to outright bans on burning of wood in areas with high usage of wood-burning stoves. And this is not in liberal enclaves: Utah has mandatory no-burn days due to unhealthy air quality (http://www.airquality.utah.gov/Compliance/noburndays.htm, http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57245936-78/utah-inversion-lake-salt.html.csp). And the side-effects of this kind of poor air quality isn’t just superficial: children with asthma suffer more attacks, people with weak cardiovascular systems–older people with heart disease or COPD, for example–suffer more heart attacks and strokes, and in the long term that sort of particulate matter is carcinogenic on the same basis as coal dust and the like.

In fact, the EPA’s guidelines, when in effect and having replaced existing wood-burning stoves, would enable more widespread use of wood-burning stoves, since any given number of stoves would do much less to affect the air quality than existing stoves.

Again, I don’t know if Mr. Bell is mistaken or a liar, but he is certainly one or the other.

Ugh
January 31, 2014 at 3:18 PM

Yeah your know we havent been burning it since the beginning of time to keep warm, I mean we used to grow fur you know, and lightning never struck and burned millions of acres of timber and prairie.

Spanky Quigman
January 31, 2014 at 4:38 PM

You’re right, we really have advanced since then. Enough so that we have what people call “cities” wherein there are lots of people that live within a relatively small area and if lots of those people burn a lot of wood and the smoke stays near the ground then lots of those people can get really sick (look at the maps of the greater Salt Lake City area where mandatory burning bans are regularly imposed to see what I mean).

And when lightning strikes and burns millions of acres of timber, there are a lot of negative effects, falling ash and heavy smoke amongst them. The difference is that we can do something about heating infrastructure, we can’t do much about acts of God. Thus the name.

jdelcjr
January 31, 2014 at 8:51 PM

I think people in the cities should concern them selves with city problems like the rat and litter problem. I hear their removing ALL the trash cans from the subway system in NY because they are so over run with rats the size of cats. They expect people are going to carry the trash from their empty food containers to where? Its all going to wind up on the ground for more rats. You worry about your rats we’ll worry about our air. I doubt there’s any “particles” flying from alaska to NY since “particles” don’t stay airborne very long. I live in a rural area and many people don’t even use wood stoves unless there’s a power outage. A power outage in a rural or remote area can last for days or weeks. The ones that use them most are poor and trying to save money, so this is going to hurt the poor more then anyone.

Spanky Quigman
February 1, 2014 at 12:08 PM

No it’s not. Poor people’s current stoves are completely exempt, so they’ll be in exactly the same situation they are now. The stoves that will be manfuactured in accordance with the new guidelines will be more efficient, thus using less wood for the same amount of heat, thus benefitting the poor the most.

jdelcjr
February 1, 2014 at 1:05 PM

That would be a good thing. I would need to research that and find out just who is considered “poor”. Now if the poor can afford to buy the more efficient stove it would be a win win. Most of the poor in rural areas collect their own wood since there is an abundance of it, But the higher efficiency would mean less wood, better heat and less labor to collect wood. The more efficient the stove, the higher the price tag. It sounds like at least for now, If you like your old stove, You can keep your old stove.

jdelcjr
February 4, 2014 at 10:40 AM

I left another response to this yesterday which is gone. The more efficient stoves are great If you can afford them. Wood in rural areas is abundant and free. “Particles” from wood stoves can’t possibly travel far so I don’t see it as a National concern. Local at best. I live in an area where some people do use wood stoves. They don’t bother me, and I seldom even smell smoke so I don’t even know what the big national environmental problem is. Too much bureaucracy trying to justify their existence.

Spanky Quigman
February 4, 2014 at 12:48 PM

Local solutions won’t be addressed by national (and international) manufacturing concerns. Further, without standards, you end up with a drive to the bottom and a textbook example of the tragedy of the commons. But it doesn’t really matter: this is all discussion around the issue, which is fine. But it’s just a matter of standard regulatory policy, NOT some overbearing fascist jackboot to the heel of the people with the potential to destroy an entire way of life. But that’s really the only language that CFACT speaks: apocalyptic warnings of the dirty libruls coming to take your [guns|children|wood stoves|etc]. And any given issue constantly gets conflated into the overarching librul conspiracy: this is really just a pathfinder so the U.N. can make us all take mass transit! It’s really not. It’s unrelated. It’s just regulations about wood stove manufacturing standards.

Ed Miller
February 1, 2014 at 2:24 PM

Yeah because sooo many people have wood stoves in the city. You can argue support for this EPA over reach all you want but you can not change the fact that a bureaucracy with no political over site has once again foisted rules on people by skirting the intentions of our representative government. The EPA is supposed to be enforcing laws passed by Congress…instead it is writing law by cheating the system and should be shut down and replaced with a government agency capable of understanding their job.

Gordon Lifte
February 1, 2014 at 5:28 PM

Yes too many people have wood smoke in the city. 5000 people marched in Salt Lake City demanding better air quality last weekend. The Utah governor has announced bans on wood burning. Denver has banned wood burning. Montreal has introduced a ban. Pittsburgh has polluted air. Number 1 cause – wood burning. Detroit’s number 1 cause of air pollution – wood burning.

Wood burning is a huge problem from Huntington Beach to Portland, Maine and every place in between. In the winter months wood burning dwarfs auto emissions as the number 1 cause of air pollution. It is only climate, such as Florida, that lets any cities in the United States be breathable in Winter. There is an urgent need for laws that protect air pollution from the lies of the wood stove manufacturer industry. There needs to be complete prohibition.

FEDUP365
January 31, 2014 at 2:57 PM

You want to file a lawsuit then you should pay your own f#&^ing way to see it through. Why is it the consumer and tax payers being held to the fire for earthjustice’s lawsuit to the tune of 4.6 millon dollars.Or get your extreme enviromentilists to back your lawsuit you tree hugging bastards. You should all be tried for enviromental and economical espionage and treason for trying to ruin the economy by getting more businesses shut down because no stove builder can accomplish building a stove with near zero pollution standards. I can build my own stove and burn all the trash I can stuff into it and hope you live down wind from me. I love burning plastic milk jugs with old motor oil in them. And maybe you can wander into my hunting area making a bunch of racket like I’ve seen before and I’ll have to mistake you for a bear in the brush if this is what you want.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 4:05 PM

I paid for my litigation when I took my neighbor to court to get an injunction to stop them polluting my house with wood smoke.

” I can build my own stove and burn all the trash I can stuff into it and hope you live down wind from me” – you are the treasonable cunt. Fucking selfish, fucked in the head cunt.

FEDUP365
February 1, 2014 at 5:21 PM

Was I talking about your mezley assed whinning to the court system you dumb fuck little son of a bitch. Your not costing the tax payers millions of dollars and if you want to sue thats your purogitive, don’t expect tax payers to pay your attorneys fees. Your probably one of those dumb fucks who live squashed up to your neighbors side wall with 4 feet of yard to share amongst yourselves and you call that shit living. More Calif B.S. I have 10.5 acres and what I do on it is my land is my fucking business little boy and if you fly your little drone over it I’LL fucking shoot it down before I come looking for the spy owner who flew it over there so so much for your whinning little bitch.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:03 PM

I couldn’t live in my own fucking house.

Am I meant to take that without fighting? What kind of a pussy are you?

I should have killed the son of a bitch, but the law told me I couldn’t. I used the law against him. He was a cunt. he had it coming. What kind of cunt burns wood that makes wood smoke, that smokes out their neighbors to their point that their neighbor can’t take it anymore?

10.5 acres is not a lot. You’ll have neighbors too close to burn. If you have 1000 acres may be, but 10.5 acres is not much bigger than what they have in some suburbs.

Other people who have taken their polluting neighbors to court have been awarded $50,000 or $100,000 in damages. I only tried to get the fucker to stop.

amabokcuf
January 31, 2014 at 5:08 PM

F*ck the EPA and the rest of this socialist government.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 4:03 PM

Really, socialist? Clean air regulations (although they are weak and still really enforce the status quo, so aren’t clean air regulations at all) are socialist? So by definition you can’t be free from socialism unless your air is polluted.

I think you need to read the dictionary definition of a few words amabokcunt. You’re not making much sense presently.

Simon Says
January 31, 2014 at 6:16 PM

I love all these global warming idiots. They can’t face the fact that current research does not support their idiocy. Hey, if I want one, I will get one, either black market or build it myself. What are they gonna do? Nothing!

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 3:54 PM

Except of course all the current research does actually support the science.

Simon says “be a thicko sheeple”.

Simon Says
February 1, 2014 at 6:24 PM

Not according to the last meeting at the UN, it rather disproved the theory. They quickly swept it under the rug and the MSM ignored it.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:39 PM

What fucking dumb source of misinformation are you reading Simon? You really should widen your reading, as telling us what you know only proves to those around you that you know absolutely fucking nothing.

Go on reply, show us how smart you are.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:44 PM

Oh and you believe in gloBULL warming too? Now i really know you’re insane.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:49 PM

Yes I absolutely do, but then again I did climatology subjects as part of my physics degree at college, and can read and evaluate scientific papers by reading them myself.

I know it is hard for dumb fucks, but just because you’re too stupid to understand it doesn’t invalidate what is happening in the real world.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:50 PM

Oh i’m supposed to be impressed? LOL. Globull warming is such a load of bull it would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic.You people that believe in globull warming are truly idiots.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:54 PM

Look I don’t care if you really are the dumbest shit on the planet. That doesn’t change one thing about the truth of global warming.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:54 PM

It’s not the truth. it’s some sort of cult like belief system you people have

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:55 PM

Sorry Cliff that I am ignorant of all the facts about global warming. I will go to my library, make a large donation so they can keep on providing reading to children, and read some about the issues until I can understand them and then comment in a clever manner.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:56 PM

are you talking to yourself now?

Simon Says
February 2, 2014 at 9:58 AM

You must be a libtard. You can’t win an argument, so you result to name calling and swearing. Great way to show professionalism. It just goes to show how far the left has sunk into moral decay. You are the one that needs to do more reading, but I will not discuss it with a liberal. Anything that isn’t contained inside the Kool-Aid graciously supplied by your Masters, you refuse to listen to or read. This convo. is ended.

Cliff Beckwith
February 3, 2014 at 12:05 AM

The fact that I can call you a dumb cunt, and be right about global warming are not actually correlated. You are pretty fucked up on logic too, huh?

Simon Says
February 4, 2014 at 8:48 AM

Hey, dumb cunt, I said the convo was ended. I guess, not only being a libtard, you can’t read….

Cliff Beckwith
February 4, 2014 at 12:51 PM

Don’t be a fuckwit Simon Says. It’s not a game of simon says . we don’t do what you say, because you deserve no respect.

Cliff Says “suck my balls”.

Simon Says
February 4, 2014 at 1:00 PM

If you have noticed (except to the reply to your ignorant reply), never contained any swear words or name calling. The last three posts you made just shows how far libs have gone down the tubes. Name calling, insulting, you can’t face the facts. But that’s ok, we need people like you to vote for idiots like Obama to prove how incredibly stupid the Democratic/Progressive side has always been. Good luck in the next election. Everyone LOVES Obummercare!

Cliff Beckwith
February 7, 2014 at 7:50 PM

Simon, who cares if you are sweary or not. What the fuck does that matter? Everything you say is a big pile of horseshit anyway.

We get judged by our actions. That’s why you’re going to Hell, because you’re a selfish cunt who thinks nothing of polluting his neighborhood.

Simon Says
February 9, 2014 at 11:40 PM

That’s a VERY adult response. How old are you, five? *lol* “What a maroon!”

dt1492
January 31, 2014 at 7:27 PM

Eco fascism. Enough already. When is Congress going to pass a law to stop this?

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Eco-fascism is burning wood and forcing your neighbor to breathe polluted air that kills and sickens. Indeed when is Congress going to pass a law to stop that?

Marjorie Atlasem
February 3, 2014 at 12:07 AM

I hope Congress does pass a law to restrict pollution from wood fires. My neighbor has an outdoor wood boiler. I am going to have to move. It pumps out smoke all day, every day. I should kill him though to save myself the money of moving. I’m going to fill it with concrete though. You think he might get the message then. Outdoor Wood Boilers should be banned completely. They are insane. The OWB companie directors should be hanged by the neck.

Cliff Beckwith
February 7, 2014 at 7:47 PM

Marjorie, Well said.

I hope we can act on your suggestion for the OWB company directors.

Dale Netherton
January 31, 2014 at 7:28 PM

The jerks that said,” There ought to be law” have gotten their wish. Live with it if you can.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 4:01 PM

It is an ineffective law and will do little to protect air quality. Other countries are doing a better job, and having stricter emission standards, but even then they were political compromises and not based on the science, but have only proven to be time wasters in getting to an effective law, and that is a law of prohibition of burning wood in residential and closely settled rural areas.

30,000 annual dead Americans due to wood smoke pollution is too high a price to pay. Permanently polluted suburbs is too high a price to pay. Denver banned them. Montreal has banned them. It looks like Salt Lake City is going to ban them. All cities need prohibition.

Dale Netherton
February 1, 2014 at 8:49 PM

Prohibition didn’t work for alcohol and it won’t work for prohibiting keeping warm. We don’t need controls by inept bureaucrats. When you figure out how to stop forest fires and volcanoes, you might have a more plausible case.

Cliff Beckwith
February 7, 2014 at 7:47 PM

Sorry Dale , but that is just really fucking stupid argument. Do you have a forest on fire or a volcano on the street where you live? No, you don’t. This is about neighborhood air quality. What is causing the pollution in the neighborhood? It ain’t a fucking volcano. It is the shit for brains neighbor with a wood burner. All the other neighbors shouldn’t have to have their wquality of life reduced because that guy is as thick as shit. Don’t be that guy. Be smart. Don’t burn. Only dickheads burn.

Dale Netherton
February 7, 2014 at 8:02 PM

Gas burns, oil burns and electricity is supplied by plants that burn to power generators. All this so we can keep warm and not freeze to death. You don’t like burning, bundle up in blanket and leave your neighbors to keep themselves warm by what ever method they choose. That is the freedom that Americans have and expect. We don’t need insulting power grabbers to dictate what we do. Wise up.

Robert Peterson
January 31, 2014 at 9:25 PM

Sorry my wood stove has been in our family for many generations no one will be coming to my house to destroy anything.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 3:52 PM

Except air quality apparently.

Why is it ok for you to destroy your neighborhood’s air quality? You should move to Communist Beijing if you want to live in reduced air quality.

Robert Peterson
February 1, 2014 at 4:02 PM

When you’re ready to foot the bill for a new furnace for my home, because many like myself rely on wood to heat our homes in the winter we’ll talk until then my neighbors burn wood as well. Why don’t you move to China the world’s largest air polluter and go flap your lips at them.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 5:16 PM

Why should you not pay for your own heating that doesn’t poillute the neighbourhood? If your toilet overflowed, do I have to fund your new toilet too?

A minimum requirement is not polluting the neighborhood. That goes for you and your neighbors. (My neighbors do it too, doesn’t stop yours being a nuisance),

You have neighbors. Therefore you shouldn’t burn at all. You are poisoning them. Will you understand that if one of them dies of a stroke you are partially responsible? Any kids get leukaemia where you live? How are the asthma rates? Kids get asthma at 6 times the rate in polluted areas, to non polluted areas.

Why don’t you pay for their asthma inhalers?

It’s all about you, isn’t it? You’re just another selfish wood burner ignoring the externalized costs, not caring that you are harming children. That makes you a child abuser too.

Robert Peterson
February 1, 2014 at 5:27 PM

My son has asthma. And since you know nothing or little about wood stoves my wood stove makes no smoke it was designed that way many years before the EPa had their noses in everybody’s business you assume you know what type of wood stove I burn without doing any research whatsoever I’m sorry I’m not part of your idiot collective minds that group all into one my wood stove far surpasses anything the EPA can certify because they aren’t that advanced they just throw a number out there and expect people to freak out. What you see coming out of my stove pipe is less than a cigarette . Let me guess you think cigarettes should be banned outside as well. Sorry I’m an American not a communist I do whatever I want when I want and if it bothers people like you that’s even better. I’m not part of the corporate Government machine you seem to be a part of. Someone tells you it’s bad and believe them because you are programed to just that. Think for yourself for once or does that hurt too much?

I’m not a communist either mate, just educated to a higher level than you.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:29 PM

You know what is a big cause of asthma and lung cancer? Our houses don’t breathe! They are locked up tighter than a drum thanks to a million GOVERNMENT regulations! Fresh air doesn’t come inside you dipshiz

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:37 PM

Do you actually know anything?

Particulate pollution ingresses houses, and indoor air quality has about 50% of outdoor air quality in terms of PM2.5s and ultrafines.

Sorry there has been much news lately on exactly how the tightness of our houses is causing lung cancer.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:46 PM

Yeah, right? Sources please.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:53 PM

Google is your friend. Look it up. I’m not going to do your work for you

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:57 PM

i.e. they don’t exist.
SO you lied to us.

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:58 PM

Oh it’s there. Not lying at all

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:59 PM

Liar

rhcrest
February 1, 2014 at 6:59 PM

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better

Robert Peterson
February 1, 2014 at 6:36 PM

Thank you for sharing bye-bye

Mcat
February 2, 2014 at 11:25 PM

Larry Bell says it is poison.PM2.5 is killing people.Oh that was last years article,go through his archives regarding the EPA forcing PM2.5 on unsuspecting victims.

T.
February 1, 2014 at 8:13 PM

Some of us have neighbors that are miles away.

Next?

Gertrude A.
February 3, 2014 at 12:00 AM

And for those who don’t have miles to their neighbors these greenies do have apoint. We should not be obstinate. They are reading the Lancet, the New England Journal of Medicine. There is plenty of scientific evidence to support the greenies on this.

You mightn’t like them, but they are correct. Wood smoke is highly toxic.

Spanky Quigman
February 2, 2014 at 10:06 AM

You’re correct: no one will come to your house to destroy anything since the EPA regulations apply only to new production starting in 2015 and have no effect on existing stock. Check the actual EPA regulations. I’ve linked them in other responses here.

Robert Peterson
February 2, 2014 at 10:09 AM

Ah the grandfathered clause. So most of this report is BS

Spanky Quigman
February 2, 2014 at 10:39 AM

Yes, it’s mostly BS. There are indeed new EPA regulations that will affect wood-burning stoves in some capacity, so that part is correct. Otherwise it’s all BS. Including Bell’s snide remark about “where’s global warming when we need it?” Since that comes hot on the heels of talking about Alaska, did you know that they’re having a record warm winter in Alaska? http://bit.ly/1n5SJrb So there’s your global warming to help out with the issue of burning wood in Alaska.

Robert Peterson
February 2, 2014 at 12:05 PM

Makes you wonder if in 1949 there were Global Warming alarmists blaming CO2 emissions.

Gordon Lifte
February 3, 2014 at 12:02 AM

The laws of physics were in force in 1949, so yes it was. Without the greenhouse effect the Earth would have been -15 degrees Celsius. In 1949 that was the case.

Robert you might like to think before writing anything further as stupid as you just wrote.

Mental retardation has also been in your family for generations no doubt.

Go you Seahawks.

William Wilson
January 31, 2014 at 10:49 PM

Have conservatives completely given up on truth and accuracy?

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 4:07 PM

Yes, a long time ago.

William Wilson
January 31, 2014 at 10:50 PM

Xx

joe
January 31, 2014 at 11:24 PM

ALASKA !!! REALLY no natural gas pipe lines only propane and LOOK what happened to the price of propane lately..4 bucks a gallon… the EPA should die…

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 3:51 PM

It is still cheaper than visiting an oncologist.

High Ass Fault Lines
February 3, 2014 at 4:51 AM

Are oncology appointments cheaper in Alaska? What about radiotherapy? Cancer is a cunt. Wood burning causes cancer. Ergo people who burn wood are cunts.

joe
January 31, 2014 at 11:25 PM

buying a stove …now!

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 4:10 PM

Another Ignorant consumer who doesn’t realize the impacts of their actions.

That’s why we need good laws to protect us from manufacturers who don’t give a damn (and should know better) and thick as shit consumers who don’t understand what they have just bought into.

All wood stoves should come with imformation leaflets about the chemical compenents of woodsmoke and the diseases they cause. Then reading that, no consumer would buy it (unless they were dumb of selfish), and then again we need to be protected from the dumb and the selfish, and that is why prohibition makes good sense.

The externalized costs of wood smoke pollution are just too big.

charlieousley
January 31, 2014 at 11:52 PM

The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of tyrants and patriots, we are overdue, GOD save the Republic.Thomas Jefferson, Charles E Ousley, I will burn any product safe for heat for my family to hell with tyrants.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 3:58 PM

Well you can’t burn wood then. It is not safe for you or your family.

Unless you like visiting your child’s grave when they’ve died of leukaemia caused by the aromatic hydrocarbon exposure which are found in wood smoke. Benzene even gives wood smoke its characteristic smell.

Thomas Jefferson, was a man of reason. He would have read the evidence, removed the wood burners, and installed a nice Panasonic reverse cycle air conditioner, heat pump for those cool Virginian winter evenings.

Or are 18th century technologies where America should be stuck at? Let’s just ignore the 21st century shall we?

bobfairlane
February 1, 2014 at 2:51 AM

Fk the Sierra Club. They want to turn as much of America as possible into “wilderness areas” that Americans will be barred from inhabiting or even crossing.

Are you the same Bob Fairlane I read about in the Orange County News who is a pedophile?

OldNYFirefighter
February 1, 2014 at 12:01 PM

Years ago I built my own wood stove that burned extremely clean. It was connected to my boiler & produced 90% of my domestic hot water & all of my heat even though the oil burner seldom came on. There was almost no smoke as the flat plate water filled baffle condensed any moisture & products of combustion to be re-burned. No creosote buildup in the chimney at all.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 4:13 PM

Guaranteed it wasn’t as clean as you said it was.

No wood burning stoves ever are as clean as claimed.

Stephanie
February 3, 2014 at 5:09 AM

Bullshit. It would still be polluting.

ResearchGirl
February 1, 2014 at 1:35 PM

Do you really think EPA’s NSPS is going to do anything to stop this assault on families clean air. . See the video make sure you watch the whole thing. Both sides chime in! Just let to let you know I burn wood and so does Susan. There is no smoke coming from my chimney in the volume that comes from an Indoor wood boiler. http://video.wcny.org/video/2365087958/

ResearchGirl
February 1, 2014 at 1:42 PM

Do you really think EPA’s NSPS is going to do anything to stop this assault on families clean air. . See the video make sure you watch the whole thing. Both sides chime in! . http://video.wcny.org/video/2365087958/

Start the Revolution Today!
February 1, 2014 at 2:05 PM

It’s high time for a new American Revolution!

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 4:12 PM

An education revolution.

rhcrest
February 3, 2014 at 4:55 AM

Are you calling Americans dum?

Cliff Beckwith
February 3, 2014 at 4:55 AM

It is spelt with a b thicko.

NORTON
February 1, 2014 at 2:08 PM

We need to take back our country,clean all houses in DC. Time to put in good people
at are for the AMERICAN PEOPLE.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 4:07 PM

One way to clean the actual houses in the District of Columbia is to ban all wood burning in the District of Columbia, Virginia and Maryland. Then the good residents of DC could have cleaner air to breathe.

Ed Miller
February 1, 2014 at 2:28 PM

The EPA should be closed down and replaced with a government agency that understands its responsibility…to enforce laws passed by congress…not to enact it’s own rules by back channel methods that are pure over reach and supported by fringe environmental groups. Government bureaucracy in this country is out of control and needs to be squashed by Congress.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 4:12 PM

And actually lived up to its name of Enviromental Protection Agency.

High Ass Fault Lines
February 3, 2014 at 5:08 AM

Actually congress is out of control, and needs to be replaced with non corrupt representatives without brown paper bags in their drawers.

Too many republicans in congress equals a backwards failing nation.

Airquality Australia
February 1, 2014 at 2:53 PM

What a stupid, factually incorrect article! The change from 15 to 12 micrograms per cubic meter is a health-based air quality standard, which is still too lax compared to the World Health Organization guideline of 10 micrograms per cubic meter. Research shows increased risk of heart attacks at 7 or 8 micrograms per cubic meter.

The only reason this affects wood stoves is that they are a major source of harmful pollution – a single wood stove is several times more polluting that the average automobile. Think about how much money you earn in 10 years. Think about how your family would feel if you died 10 years before your time from a pollution-induced heart attack, stroke or lung cancer.

Surely it’s worth investing a small amount of the money and heartbreak from dying too early into clean, non-polluting heating that might prevent such a premature death?

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 4:11 PM

Good to see not everyone reading this article is an idiot. Good for you Airquality Australia.

At least someone cares about issues such as premature death.

The ignorami don’t seem to care.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 3:29 PM

People you can heat your homes without burning wood.

This is the dumbest article I have ever read. The threat of wood smoke to people’s health is very real. Wood smoke is 1000 times dirtier, in terms of particulate pollution, than burning natural gas. It is also 1000s of times dirtier than heating with electricity even if the electricity is from burning coal. Wood smoke is also toxic. It is highly carcinogenic, a Class 1 carcinogen (i.e it causes cancer to humans. It kills 30,000 people in the USA each year. It causes cardiovascular disease, (heart attacks and strokes), it causes lung cancer, it causes mouth and throat cancers, it has been linked to breast and bowel cancers, it causes emphysema, bronchitis, asthma, and the benzene in woodsmoke (which is at 6 times the level found in automobile emissions) causes leukaemias in both children and adults. It degrades both urban and rural air quality and it reduces peoples health and quality of life.

The right policy would actually be complete bans on all wood burning in residential areas, and on closely settled rural areas. So the problem with the EPA regulations is that they allow too much pollution to occur, and should be tightened a whole lot further to protect public health. That 30,000 dead figure is an outrage and is as many as die in auto accidents and more than all the gun deaths (homicides and suicides) in the USA (and they’re out of control because of laws dumbly influenced by stupid libertarian ideas).

You have lied about the science too. Carbon soot is also active as a greenhouse agent. And climate change is very much real. Only an ignoramus would believe the kind of disinformation that an ideologue like Larry Bell would write.

Right wing cuntservatives are the most stupid, misled little dumb sheep on the planet. Grow up you ignorant little people. Libertarianism is not a valid political philosophy. It is a mental illness. We are all in this together, and when you light a fire and pollute your neighborhood with wood smoke you are assaulting your neighbors, reducing their quality of life, and being a selfish shit of a person. Get a clean form of heating, such as natural gas or electric heatpumps. If you do live remotely a long way from your neighbors, and you’re not in a valley that will support inversions, trapping the pollution, then sure wood is ok, but then you should still get the cleanest wood burner you can, because you’ll be poisoning yourself and your family, and the particulates will come into your house. Anything else would just be very stupid.

Lamb
February 1, 2014 at 6:16 PM

I am about to move to a remote area. I will have a wood cook stove and a wood stove for heat. I am buying older models (used and refurbished). They were built to LAST. Not last 10 or 20 years, but to last a lifetime. My nearest neighbor will be several miles away, so I doubt it will offend them.

Max Emptor
February 1, 2014 at 6:26 PM

If your neighbors are several miles away it probably won’t effect them. But you will be poisoning yourself. You could get a newer cleaner one. It won’t be very clean, say as bottled propane. About half of the concentration of particulates outside will seep into your house and you will suffer the ill health effects from them. But that is your call.

Guest
February 1, 2014 at 6:40 PM

Besides passing any regulations the

Robert Peterson
February 1, 2014 at 6:43 PM

The EPA can pass all the regulations it wants they also have to have the manpower and the money to enforce it.

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:45 PM

Or what, you;l get out your stash of little boy penis substitute weapons?

Wanker.

Robert Peterson
February 1, 2014 at 6:50 PM

No dipshit it takes money lot’s of it the EPA doesn’t have it. And the resources to enforce it. I thought you mentioned you were much more educated than I. That comment puts you at the level of a 10 year old or someone with a very low IQ who thinks he’s smart. Thanks for sharing. I’m done with you

Cliff Beckwith
February 1, 2014 at 6:52 PM

Well raise taxes and fund the EPA better.

I know the average income of the dipshits who read CFACT are low because there is a correlation between intelligence and income, so it won’t affect you guys.

Christie Nestor
February 1, 2014 at 7:59 PM

You realize you just insulted yourself as well because you are on the page. Unless you just came to troll comments, then that would make you the imbecile.

Cliff Beckwith
February 3, 2014 at 4:59 AM

Thanks, for pointing that out Christie. I am indeed here to make some very stupid people upset. They definitely do need a kick up the ass. Fancy anyone polluting their neighborhood with wood smoke. It’s like shitting in your own bed. That’s how stupid some of these people are, and then to frame their arguments it in the mental midgetry of libertarianism and conservatism, well they make me ill. I don’t mind doing God’s work here and telling them that they are indeed dumb pieces of shit. It’s all part of the service.

Christie Nestor
February 3, 2014 at 3:58 PM

God would never utilize the phrase you just used. He may point out that burning wood which is something that is completely natural is not going to cause harm to his creation but he would not use the colorful language you insisted upon using.

Cliff Beckwith
February 7, 2014 at 7:40 PM

Don’t be stupid Christie.

Wood smoke is completely natural like radioactivity and arsenic, and infants dying.

Also there isn’t a god. That is a story to get 4 year olds to behave. Grow up, don’t be thick, and for fuck’s sake, don’t light a fire. You are too stupid to know what you’re doing.

Carmalea Steelman Bentley
February 2, 2014 at 8:00 AM

How dare the EPA. I have an outside hot water wood furnace. I can’t afford Electric or Gas heat. I live on a fixed income. I can go and cut my own wood from my property with little cost to me. It heats my hot water and my house.Or other words I will have to apply for help on paying my electric bill. It looks like the Democrats wants us to depend on them entirely. Just like the people on welfare. Sorry am an independent
person.

Cliff Beckwith
February 3, 2014 at 5:06 AM

The number one cause of neighborhood complaint in the United States is outdoor wood furnaces.

Some advice. Your neighbors hate you for stinking them out. WHy don’t you be nice and remove the offensive OWB? If you can’t afford to not use it, give them some relief by slitting your own throat.

Your neighbors air quality depends entirely on your decisions. Trust me, spend a few days at the mercy of an OWB’s pollution, and you’ll want the selfish fucker who uses one dead too.

AlixIvanPain
February 2, 2014 at 8:39 AM

@Cliff Beckwith Stop ya poking at the people that belong here. You stated “Mate” which straight up means your Brit or Aussie! Sure go ahead attack my statement and show your brilliance! The SOUTH never coincided the War, and we are getting tired of the NORTH telling us what we can and can not do! Yes China and other foreign Nations are by far freer than us Americans! But you can always take freedoms from the blind! Take your profits and give them to the poor, put yourself near to the bottom of the food chain, and learn humility! Ya yanks wouldn’t have food on your table if you didn’t learn how to burn off the fields to return carbon to the soil. Tell Mass. to stop controlled burns on Maratha’s Vineyard if you don’t want pollution! EPA & DEQ have the “GREENIES” on their side that would rather see veggies on everyone’s table! Global Warming is just another stage of this earths aging process, we humans can be extinct just as the dinosaurs before us! We’re here for a minut minute! Stop deciding what others want!

Cliff Beckwith
February 3, 2014 at 5:03 AM

But my neighbor decides what I get to breathe. Of course I am going to call the guy a cunt.

As for carpetbaggers telling you racist southerners to do, please try to take ti with a bit of grace, old chap. It is not nice to be nasty to black people. If someone calls you a cunt for doing so, indeed, sir you’re a cunt.

AlixIvanPain
February 2, 2014 at 8:54 AM

As to the water in Kentucky!! It was bound to happen someplace; it just so happened in Kentucky, some other state has Natural Gas in it’s water supply. The plant that caused the leak knew that in due time a leak would occur because the metal container would erode in time.

“30,000 less deaths annually caused by wood smoke pollution” My guess for you Cliff go live in California and let us know how you like it in 10 years when you realize “wood burning” is the least of your concern when it comes to wetting your mouth!

theelviscerator
February 2, 2014 at 12:23 PM

The liberal answer is you cant live in alaska I guess, if you need to use firewoood…rofl..

Irvin Chase
February 2, 2014 at 1:48 PM

Its time for all the envrion”MENTAL”ist to get the hell out of this country!!! The environ”MENTAL” agenda is only costing taxpayers billions of dollars we do not have. Everything from solar power to wind power, both are the biggest jokes ever perpetrated on the US, to saving fish and wildlife , They are saving everything except the human race. But I forgot envrion”MENTAL” ist want humans to be extinct. Then what??? Well at least the environ”MENTAL” ist would be gone.

Cliff Beckwith
February 3, 2014 at 5:00 AM

Irvin you are a particularly dumb cunt, aren’t you?

Irvin Chase
February 3, 2014 at 12:33 PM

Probably Cliff. However, I love my country, have fought for our freedoms, which listening to your comment like them or not is a part of those freedoms, but i do not like the way the envrion”MENTAL”ist, greenies,treehuggers and save the earth people are screwing this country up.eviron”MENTAL”ly. Keeping our air water and soil clean and usable is great. However, if you would take the time to investigate all the green, environ”MENTAL” crap and do so with an open mind you would understand what me and other dumb cunts are telling you. But is it obvious you are a closed minded person, not a cunt cause we are good, and don’t want to listen to anyone else. Oh does that wound like the present administration in Washington??

Cliff Beckwith
February 4, 2014 at 12:55 PM

I am fighting for realfreedoms now. The freedom to breathe clean air.

You are just a dumb cunt Irvin. You were probably grunt infantry, cleaning latrines, and only then, because your grades were terrible and you couldn’t get a real job. Yet you call it “fighting for freedoms”. You know jack shit.

Clean air is the most basic human need. It is the most basic human right. If you allow that to be taken away then you are a prick. You are the opposite of of fighting for “freedom”. You don’t know what freedom is. It makes you a fascist.

I am a hero. You are a zero.

Al gae
August 8, 2014 at 12:17 AM

“I am a hero.”

Sure you are .. now move away from the keyboard slowly to avoid injury.

Sources of fine particles include all types of combustion activities (motor vehicles, power plants, wood burning, etc.) and certain industrial processes. Particles with diameters between 2.5 and 10 micrometers are referred to as “coarse.” Sources of coarse particles include crushing or grinding operations, and dust from paved or unpaved roads. Other particles may be formed in the air from the chemical change of gases. They are indirectly formed when gases from burning fuels react with sunlight and water vapor. These can result from fuel combustion in motor vehicles, at power plants, and in other industrial processes.http://www.epa.gov/pmdesignations/faq.htm#0

Looking over some of your total comments,, I am not going to get into a name calling contest with you.I am not going to lower myself to that level. I am however, going to say this, if you are a rich capitalist, people like me and thousands of other men and women put the uniform of our country on to protect people like you. We fought and some died. Further, we have given you the right to say what you want, to whom ever you want, whenever you want. People like you make me sick. The only time the air is nasty in this country is when people like you open your mouth to make comments like you have not only to me but to all who have written on this subject. Get a life Cliff!!

Cliff Beckwith
February 7, 2014 at 6:30 PM

No you didn’t, that’s the lie they tell you so you’re happy to be cannon fodder. Smart people, employable people realize this. That’s just the shit we tell the dumb ones. PS. Freedom is freedom from woodsmoke

Irvin Chase
February 8, 2014 at 1:28 AM

No comment to THE #1″IDIOT” Cliff!!

Cliff Beckwith
February 10, 2014 at 10:49 PM

Yay I won an award.

b.russell
February 5, 2014 at 8:28 AM

They should ban cars; they put off fare more pollutants and what are they going to do about forest fires? Now lets see; cant collect rain water, cant have a backyard garden, cant heat your house with a carbon neutral heat source. I see this as an infringement on my pursuit of happiness, I can not phantom people not seeing any fault in this logic.

ErrorPointererOuter
February 7, 2014 at 6:28 PM

Wrong #1. Wood smoke pollutes way more than cars. Use a wood burner for 1 night and it is like driving a SUV 15,000 miles.

Wrong#2 Burning wood is not carbon neutral – there are methane emissions and the soot is a powerful carbon agent.

But good use of the word phantom as a verb.

BAB
February 14, 2014 at 8:09 AM

what about “fathom”?

Viper
February 9, 2014 at 4:39 PM

Gas think about that is it ok??? It is all about dam money is all they care about.

Cliff Beckwith
February 10, 2014 at 10:47 PM

Less particulate pollution though. So your argument is pretty effed in the head.

Obama-monkey
February 9, 2014 at 5:17 PM

I wonder if an EPA representative will come to my house to heat it for me when the power goes out?

Cliff Beckwith
February 10, 2014 at 10:46 PM

No dickhead, but your neighbors might come with a baseball bat when you smoke them out of their own house.

i.e think before you stink.

And why should one night a year of power outage (if that) mean we have to have month long air quality problems?

Obama-monkey
February 11, 2014 at 6:01 PM

“Dickhead” – clearly you’re not capable of an adult debate.
“Smoke them out of their own house” – I’ve never had a single complaint.
“come with a baseball bat” – They would lose as they would be bringing a baseball bat to a gun fight. We have the right to defend ourselves from people who threaten us with weapons.
“one night a year of power outage” – I don’t heat with wood due to outages.
“month long air quality problems” – 4,000,000 years of humans heating with wood and now it’s a pollution problem? Prove it. Or, don’t…. I’m sure you’d rather have me crank up the fossil fuel fired heater.

Onteo
February 12, 2014 at 10:29 AM

Screw the EPA. Come and take my stove.

Andres Carter
February 17, 2014 at 4:37 PM

On January 3, 2014, EPA proposed revisions to the residential wood heater new source performance standards (NSPS) under Section 111 of the Clean Air Act. The draft revisions apply to new heaters ONLY and do not apply to existing wood stoves and other wood heaters installed in peoples’ homes. Go to www2.epa.gov/residential-wood-heaters to review and comment on the proposed revisions before final standards are issued. EPA will accept written comments for 90 days after publication of the proposal in the Federal Register.

Scott Denard
February 23, 2014 at 9:46 AM

So does this mean they are banning fireplaces and open fires also? Seems like if one is bad all are bad so they need to ban building any homes with fireplaces and all campfires also. God help those who are lost in the wildness and need to cook or stay warm.

Godson54739
February 25, 2014 at 2:41 PM

Now, I’m not doing any Name calling , because that’s pure ignorance in
itself. So! Let’s get down to Brass tacks here and Deal with the subject
of Air Pollution. To all you Environmentalists out there who think you
have all the answers. Big city pollution has nothing to do with Number
one, Second hand smoke from Cigarets, or does it have any thing to do
with wood smoke. What it does have to do with is the fact that, How many
vehicles run through that town or city? How Many Diesel Trucks do
Delivery’s? How many Diesel Locomotives do you have running product in
and out of your city? Now that those questions are asked? What is the
nutritional intake of these people? What is their diet comprised of?
What kind of supplements (Vitamins, Minerals and the such) are they
taking daily. What kind of meds are being supplied to the Area and from
whom? We Humans are totally ignorant of what is going on around us
today. Do you realize Dog food has more nutritional value to it then the
food you buy from the store? Diabetes is caused from mineral
deficiencies, Cancer is caused by Vitamin, and Mineral deficiencies, so
are most ailments out there. Now? What I really wish to Know is this.
Are you gonna pay my heating bill when the temps here hit 40-60 below?
Propane is at over $4.00 a gallon here. It cost a friend over $4000.00
to fill his tank which lasts him roughly a month, in the extreme cold.
You gonna pay for me to prepare my food and heat My home? You wish to
complain about Air Pollution? Start with anything that is Diesel out
there, dumping raw fuel into the air we breath. Do you realize a Diesel
engine is less then 60% efficient? Now that’s a small part of the
Pollution problem. Now you go to a Diesel Train engine that transports
some 78% of the Produce in this Country. They dump over 4 million parts
of raw Diesel into the air every minute that they are under power. I’ve
heard People moving out into the country complain about a Dairy Farmer
spreading his Cow Manure out on his fields! Even watched the court
proceedings as he tried to Sue the farmer for Polluting his air with
that farm fresh fragrance. The Judge told him to Move back to the City,
if he didn’t like the smell.
Ignorance is Bliss! You need to
learn what you are complaining about before you open your mouths. The
Medical field in this Country is Called Medical Practice for a reason.
Because they use us, as their own personal Ginnea Pigs to Practice on.
Ask any Scientist that is practicing Science. They will tell you that
Science is not Exact, but is only in Theory. The EPA in this country is a
Joke, Just like the FDA. The Poisons that they allow these asshole to
put into our Food and drugs? Are an Monstrosity. The additives in most
Pops that the public drinks robs your body of Calcium, because it’s the
only way our body can break it down. You need also to follow the Radio
active cloud that runs over us now constantly. Because Radiation is what
causes cancer. Talk to the Government about the Chem trails coming off
of the Jets that Fly over our heads? Aluminum Oxide is one of the
Ingredients in that trail, they use it to seed the Clouds to make it
rain, (So they Say) Causes Cancer. Let alone all of the Biological
ingredients in it. Bola-Bola Fever, Hoof and Mouth, Anthrax, just to
name a few. Where the sickness coming from? Look to your Federal
Government. Look to the soil the Farmers are growing our food in. It’s
been depleted of all mineral and nutritional values since back in the
60’s if you listen to the Scientists. You wish to stop wood burning?
Work on the other things first. Because if you go with wood fires? You
best start hopping on all of those forest fires and brush fires that
criss-cross the world because that smoke might reach your Lungs and
cause asthma. Ask the people who are burning , whatever it is that is making people sick? What kind of wood are they burning? 10 to 1 says it is some form of Construction Grade Woods. They are the Only woods that Produce the the types of gases that cause these types of Illnesses. Benzene Gases, Arsenic Gases, Ect…. I fought Wildfires all over this Country and been down wind of a couple of thousand of them. Why am I not on a Respirator, As it shows in these Videos? The Information I just posted is available to any of you
who feel like looking. What it boils down to? Is how many Idiots can
they get to back them, and doing it behind closed doors to get it done.
That should be and is the Bitch most will have , as well they should.
Have a Blessed day one and all.

Guardian
March 28, 2014 at 1:14 PM

Wow! An old comment board! Typical politicians and bureaucrats. They want to fix the little guy (5% of the real problem) and take away more rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness by taking away our wood stoves while the main culprit, producing 80% of the bad air, is industrial big money corporations that donate large sums of money into the wallets of these jokers! What a crock!

FrankDavis
March 29, 2014 at 6:48 PM

My first time here – Just made a contribution to CFACT for the Climate Depot. Hope it will live up to its goals! The wood-stove imposition is scandalously hurtful to so many people. As is the ethanol/gasohol imposition. The problems caused by EPA (and also, Corps of Engineers) overreaching are not exposed often enough. It is good to see that Sen. Vitter (R-La.) is starting an action to expose that pernicious “sue and settle” loop. But, what was the La. Atty-General’s response? Did he join the effort? Perhaps you can update what is happening with the FOIA info. (The EPA is notorious for ignoring FOIA requests.)

Undecider
April 1, 2014 at 2:06 PM

Any concern about the nano-particle metals being sprayed into the atmosphere under geo-engineering programs? They want to get the smoke out the air and fluoride in the water.

GRAMPA
May 31, 2014 at 5:09 PM

An American breaks over four laws every day. The goal is so when everyone is guilty and a convicted felon they cannot buy or even be in a home with a gun. We have back door gun control.
Grampa

disqus_tKUiAezKl2
May 31, 2014 at 9:10 PM

Is it any wonder they’re winning when we act like fools?

Timothy_Bair
July 13, 2014 at 9:17 AM

And ironically putting thousands in the heart of liberal territory, Vermont, who work for foundries like Vermont Castings…out of work

It is this company and others who have been at the forefront of clean burning technologies for wood stoves. Clearly the purpose of this is to put them out of business in favor of foreign competition

We will find out who is buying off whom

We will find out how many at EPA are receiving bribes

flamegonesilver
August 6, 2014 at 4:37 PM

TIME TO GET RID OF THE FREAKIN’ EPA! We don’t NEED any more ‘LAWS’ from a govt. dept. gone MAD with a bunch of CONTROL FREAKS! ENFORCE the laws that help the ‘common’ people! And not some BOO-YEAH-YO-YO-HEADS, that don’t know what the HADES is REALLY goin’ on!
1 more thing folks…..WhytheHELL does the EPA have a SWAT team for? TERRORIST BEAVERS BUILDING DAMN DAMS?
PUDDING HEADS!

flamegonesilver
August 6, 2014 at 4:38 PM

YEAH…I’M O.P’ed!

peckerwood
August 7, 2014 at 9:22 PM

Fortunately,most people in the more remote rural areas that need to heat with wood can tell the EPA to fcuk off, as we all should, and likely get away with it for years.

Nita Shafer
August 8, 2014 at 9:32 AM

Da Comrades… ve at ze EPA only vish to keep you safe.

Fedupwithpretense
August 22, 2014 at 6:28 PM

The comments on this article reveal a bigger problem than wood smoke — it is the smoke that smart a$$es blow in your ear!
Cliff Beckwith is a good example of a robot programed for arrogance, self-righteousness, superiority and pomposity. That alone is sufficiently provocative to draw out the darker side of people with some commonsense, who, with him, finally resort to the violence of vilification and hatred that pollutes more than the air and destroys everything that would be constructive.
At that point we are exposed to a pollution of values that makes all the EPA pontification even more pathetic: a value system that puts the self first and tries to hide that fact behind a crisp know-it-all posture that means to pass dictates as divine deliverances.
This “deity posture” is belied by the unintended consequences of cookie-cutter imposition of pretense to wisdom and concern for others by the likes of Beckwith and the EPA. It also is exposed by the quick resort of others to a violent appeal to personal freedom — untrammeled by responsibility.
The Leftists like Beckwith delight in making money, boasting of their personal integrity and flaunting their personal self-deification. The Libertarians are no less well informed and pompous about their “freedoms” (devoid of responsibility = “license”), so we have a wicked “competition of the gods” that is an embarrassment to all who notice it in passing.
The game is resolved not by facts, reason or even humility, but by attempts at personal/institutional dominance, with those closest to the instruments of power usually succeeding and feeding the fires of wrath in others.
Yes, there are two kinds of environmentalist: The first exploits the environment at the expense of and for the purpose of dominance of others, while regarding themselves, paradoxically as lords, masters and sustainers of Gaia, their focus of idolatry. The second sees nature as merely a creature, indeed “red with tooth and claw”, that needs both protection and discipline, since, if left alone, it cares nothing for man or beast, but only its own proliferation.
So far as I can see, Beckwith and his vile detractors fit most comfortably into the former category and create a climate of discourse that is toxic in a fundamental way to both man and nature. Technically, it is “axiological toxicity” — a deadly poison.
Enough is enough — except to those who revere and relish themselves at the expense of both nature and man under a veil of pretense.

I think this article is a coal industry misdirect slamming Greens who are much more sensitive to the social consequences of policy. Phasing out bad wood burning tech in a fair, supply side manner, is reasonable. I do hope our militarized sheriff’s department isn’t going to come take my wood burner away.

David L
September 23, 2014 at 1:21 PM

Classic Democrat treatment of the poor. Eliminate low skill jobs, inflate prices of common goods & services by raising Corporation taxes, & now illegalize the only way many of them can heat their homes. EPA has got to go.

Well what a way to keep the poor as poor. Oh and lets make the larger companies even more money!!!

Carriersailor
November 1, 2014 at 12:08 PM

As long as the golf cart Muslim’s gong show Is In the White House there will be more of this garbage.

Gloria Bouillion
November 12, 2014 at 1:30 PM

Free in America? Right free to do exactly what all these fools can think of to hurt the poor. What is the EPA? E=exceptional, P=Pain, A=Azz!

USSA
November 21, 2014 at 11:07 PM

look at these idiots arguing, simple solution, ban trees! It’s for the children!

CJG
December 5, 2014 at 9:26 PM

Personally I believe that using wood whether in pellet form or raw wood is still safer for the environment than the way other fuels are consumed. I used to help shovel off slag coal at my parents house in OH, back in the 60’s. It was always a mess. Yet we had a wooded area where we harvested fire wood from there too.. My father always took to downing the dead trees whether standing or not. That stuff burnt well and produced little outtake from the furnace. My brother lived a mile away and used a pellet stove. Later the cost of those pellets exceeded the value of dry field corn, so he burnt that
for heat in the winter, it too was cleaner than wood. Modern furnaces and air tight fireplaces may not look so inviting but they are still a viable source of heat.

momsaid
December 6, 2014 at 7:34 PM

Could you edit/fix a mistake in the article? You indicate that ‘Puget Sound, WA…is a city. It’s a body of water.

ThomasJK
December 22, 2014 at 2:17 PM

Is ignorance a quantifiable trait? If it was, what would be the unit of measure? The ig, maybe? In that case, there are boundless dozens, hundreds and scores of little igs running around loose in that strange little foreign country that’s called The District of Columbia.

Cede The District of Columbia to The United Nations then evict and kick the resulting agglomerated buckets and buckets of brainless out of our country.

stupid me
December 28, 2014 at 3:02 PM

This is so stupid. If America was really concerned about health they would ban smoking and drinking. But wait there is too much tax revenue that would be lost so let’s ban something that has a minimum negative tax revenue impact and makes it look like we care about health. I call bullcrap on this!

Ming the Merciless
January 16, 2015 at 12:27 AM

Americans voted for democrats, Americans will freeze in the dark…Now, will you soft bellies have the guts to impeach the illegal alien from Kenya?
Man, I’m glad I got the hell out of the US!

Ming the Merciless
January 16, 2015 at 12:27 AM

Americans voted for democrats, Americans will freeze in the dark…Now, will you soft bellies have the guts to impeach the illegal alien from Kenya?
Man, I’m glad I got the hell out of the US!

Ming the Merciless
January 16, 2015 at 12:31 AM

My wife uncle died at 135 years old…As an indian hunter, he spent his whole life around open wood fires…must be good for longevity…

Ming the Merciless
January 16, 2015 at 12:31 AM

My wife uncle died at 135 years old…As an indian hunter, he spent his whole life around open wood fires…must be good for longevity…

RayNAiken
January 16, 2015 at 7:14 AM

So has the EPA banned forrest fires? California is in so much trouble!

iconoclast
January 16, 2015 at 7:46 PM

So my two wood stoves are illegal for my log cabin in rural WA?

Good thing that I know how to design my own wood stoves and hire welders to make them. Have done it once already. Might be a business opportunity.

Conservative American Voter
January 16, 2015 at 9:01 PM

people running the EPA are criminally insane…

Charles
January 30, 2015 at 7:06 PM

I hate to get all religious, but there appears to be a correlation between most Christians(that I know personally), and environmental stupidity. First of all, Christians actually believe that “God” created them and everything else on this planet. These folks are typically the ones who get angry when “the man” regulates them on what they can and cannot do. And like children, whose parents tell them “no” when they try to get themselves into danger, they kick and scream and make up stories that justify their unwillingness to cooperate with the facts.

These same individuals are also the first ones to ignore scientific data when it inconveniences them or their belief system. For example, science says “wood smoke is harmful.” You respond “no it’s not!! my grand daddies daddies daddy been burnin wood fur years and nutins a matter with that cause that’s the way it’s always been and he lived to be 98 years old. Hell peoples been burnin wood since the beginin of time! You caint tell me what to do you leftist blah blah blah!” Logical. I mean if your daddies daddies daddy lived that long and we’ve been doing it since the beginning of time then shoot friend, today’s new science must be wrong.

Sorry, but If you actually believe in this thinly carved out sort of logic, and worse you base your opinions on it, you are a rube. My guess is that you also still believe there is a heaven and a hell and you think America is freedom and you cry when you see the flag and you support the troops and have a four wheeler and live in the country where none dem city slickers with their books and facts gonna tell you what tah dah (to do)!!!!

On a side note, Fox News is amazing at inventing their own data to discredit actual scientific data. It comes easy to them. They just say the lie, and it becomes true to the millions of willfully ignorant children of God who choose to believe it. Then, those same believers blame an enemy, in this case “leftist liberals”, for ruining their country and stealing their freedom. Hilarious. Better yet are the people that claim that scientific data covers up other probems like in this case someone mentioned pollution from “all the vehicles blah blah blah.” That’s the old bate and switch where you go off just far enough off topic to try and justify your point by saying the other thing is the real problem. Crazy people. (I do this too, bad habit)

Why do this? Because entities such as fox news profit from a simple truth. Men and Women of Christian faith love to feel that they actually have something that can be taken away from them. Give a Christian something to fight for and by God they’ll pull out a quote from Fox news quicker than you can say wood stove abortion.

The simplest and most misunderstood form of slavery is when a man or woman actually believes in their mind that the choices they make don’t effect everything else. When you think this way, you are a slave to the idea that you are somehow separate from everything else in the world. Shackled like a prisoner. That thinking leads to the kind of selfish behavior such as burning wood in a wood stove, or smoking indoors, or doing other unnecessary things deemed toxic or dangerous to others.

Moving on. I’ve also noticed a correlation between Agnostic people (people like myself) and environmental pro-activism or awareness. We suffer from a belief that we were born from this planet. You know, mother earth…. We seem not to boast about putting ourselves or our needs above the needs of the majority of earths inhabitants including plants, animals, and the earth itself. We wouldn’t dare put ourselves above a tree, because we know that it’s all the same thing. The tree, the air, you. It’s all the same. We’re all connected. Don’t believe me. Well, of course you don’t. You’d rather believe in a story of good and evil and seperate everything because that’s what your daddies daddies daddy taught you and you need to have an enemy because how else do you explain the “evils” of the world.

Wood smoke is horrible. I offered to pay my neighbors gas bill to quit burning it. He did because he’s a great guy. A christian too by the way. He mumbled some jumbo about the EPA and how his daddy did it so I smiled and said thanks and went inside my house to wait a week for the air to clear.

Wood burning Americans, if you still burn wood in an urban setting after you’ve read that wood burning is bad for you and your neighbors and our environment, then you are incredibly selfish. I truly hope that the smoke you create does not harm you, your loved ones, or your neighbors. I also hope that the scientists are wrong about wood smoke, but I’m not going to hold my breathe. You (wood burning americans) are your neighbors, and they don’t want you poisoning the air.

cant censor the truth
May 3, 2015 at 7:59 PM

Nine paragraphs of pure shit.

geekdome
February 4, 2015 at 2:22 PM

This article is dead wrong. The EPA is NOT banning the production of 80% of stoves and it is not banning sales of these stoves. All stoves currently on the market will be allowed to be sold. You can buy any stove that is now for sale, because they are grandfathered in. All the EPA is doing is demanding that stoves made this year and for the next 5 years be cleaner burning. The idea that this rule is an attack on rural people or poor is nonsense. Besides, they are ALREADY being harmed by the terrible pollutants emitted from old stoves. This is a well-documented medical fact, and the diseases that people get from that smoke will cost them a whole lot more than a new stove.

exitor98
February 15, 2015 at 5:39 PM

Usually the EPA simply fears technology and progress. This time they fear common sense. I guess the far left elite would love nothing more than to rid the world of “useless eaters.” By removing wood based heating as an option, in the minds of libs, many of the commoners that they do greatly despise will die off.
You libs are nothing but a bunch of vermin. But hey, what else can one expect from a group of beings that also often times like pedophilia as well?

Kyle4318
February 16, 2015 at 10:01 PM

the good news is they are Not going after your Gas Hot Water heater for 28 more days!

tpcowberry
February 23, 2015 at 10:01 PM

If somebody cranked their stereo up so loud at all hours that it bothered neighbors inside their own homes, most people would think complaints were perfectly reasonable. Why should anyone expect neighbors to have to choke on someone’s stinking wood smoke whether they want to or not?

why are we letting the gov. tell us we are supposed to tell the gov. heating with wood has been a mainstay for thousands of years, to tell folkes who live in rural America no wood is foolish, no other form of energy is availiable to them. So lets see no oil no coal no wood convert all of the electric plants to nat. gas so nat. gas prices go out of site it seems that they want to see how far into the corner thay can push us and how much we will take, and when I say they I mean the gov. and big business cus we know that big is business is calling the shots, the irony of it all is that many of us have stock in these businesses and it is make my stock grow at all cost no matter who it hurts, and I can tell you this will bite us in the butt and we will pay the price

We’ve lost our Republic, as Benjamin Franklin warned. Obama and his cronies find nothing too small to steal and manipulate. Guess we’re going to have an underground wood stove market to escape the tyrants.

If Obama is for it, you know it bad. Shame the sell out Republicrats are too busy passing bills that haven’t read to defend our right to burn wood to heat our homes.

Michael Pesl
June 18, 2015 at 8:02 AM

Glad to know UH has people who have brains, and don’t drink the Obama kool-aid of global warming. Not allowing wood burning heaters is just plain stupid. Once again, we the people need Congress to get the federal agencies in line and not allow them to set rules. Period. And not allow agencies to use the courts to set policy through the use of lawsuits filed by “friends of the court.” It’s plain idiotic to allow agencies to shell out millions of dollars to line the pockets of lawyers.

9911kelly
June 21, 2015 at 12:37 PM

What gets me is they’re supposed to be for “renewable energy”. Wood grows naturally, and wood “renews” itself. It’s also supposed to be “carbon neutral”, because trees supposedly remove as much CO2 as is released when wood is burned. And if you burn wood from down or dead trees, there’s no loss of live trees. And not only do trees produce seed for new trees, they can fairly easily be planted. No, this is about control, not pollution.

and just recently the jack asses at the EPA dumped a shit load of waist…

Haut
August 23, 2015 at 4:57 AM

Its all “BS” Why don,t they ban Volcano,s as well??? Ha Ha Ha Ha Thats whats happens when Jews run your country, Who did 9-11? Same who did Uss Liberty Deeerrr!

Kathleen Pedersen
October 8, 2015 at 4:25 AM

America is being run by a bunch of idiots. Power seems to have gone amuck from the top down. we have no leadership to speak of, just an overload of bullies running this country.

David McClellan
October 10, 2015 at 4:58 PM

Just ignore the rulings. If the EPA notices you, make them fine you, don’t pay, and make them take you to court. All the while (months), you are staying warm with your wood stove.

Mnestheus
November 22, 2015 at 2:49 PM

Larry and the Pachinko Foundation should draft legislation exempting space station wood stoves from the dead hand of EPA regilation

asthmatic guy
November 27, 2015 at 11:49 PM

The very first sentence of this article, “It seems that even wood isn’t green or renewable enough anymore,” translates to, “ZOMG!!!! THEY’RE GONNA BAN WOOD BURNING!!!!!” The second sentence reads almost that. And, yes, it sounds that stupid when you read this article, IMHO.

Then, an early poster posted a link to the actual EPA summary page, and reading it makes it seem reasonable. They’re not banning existing installations. Rather, they are tightening emission limits for wood stoves, including pellet stoves, so that they must emit about half the amount of smoke and fly ash they are currently allowed to. Power plants, especially coal plants, already have to do this, and wood stoves are currently the biggest smoke polluter in winter when the inversions set in, so this makes sense. As long as the price can be made cheap enough, this means you can burn all you want–maybe even on burn ban days–while generating far less particle pollution (still more than gas, though). Think of it as similar to a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF), but for your stove; it will probably be very similar to fly ash filters used on coal plants, which is a mature and low tech (therefore hopefully cheap!) technology.

Disclaimer: I’m asthmatic and wood smoke is currently–right this moment, as I write this–making me very sick, so I have a very direct stake in this.

Elwood
November 30, 2015 at 10:46 AM

There is no wood stove or fireplace-created particulate problem, just like there is no CO2-cause climate problem. Furthermore, since 1980 aggregate US pollution emmissions are down 63%. Yet the self-serving bureaucracy that is the EPA continues to attack things like wood stoves that contribute nothing, NOTHING to the non-existent pollution problem here in the states. Our lives are being run by Leftist bureacracies that are completely disconnected from the country and fact-based reality.

john robel
December 9, 2015 at 2:15 PM

F,,k them. I do what I damn well please. Come and meet uncle Ruger.

Goinlike Billio
December 11, 2015 at 12:57 PM

I believe that the US sends wood to us here in the UK as we are no longer allowed to burn coal in our power stations because of EU directives So don’t worry it goes up in smoke anyway. You’ll be a lot fitter if you have to run round to keep warm. Always look on the bright side of life 🙁

ltneid
January 14, 2016 at 12:24 AM

Raising the standards on stoves to make more heat with less wood and cleaner air is not banning woodstoves.
You people are gullible idiots to believe this crap.

tday60
January 20, 2016 at 4:04 PM

Damn it, just when I though this was actual information, I found the author is “He is also the author of ‘Climate of Corruption: Politics and Power Behind the Global Warming Hoax.'”

Coonhound
January 21, 2016 at 1:34 AM

Unelected bureaucrats/agencies making rules and regs (basically law) is illegal as hell. No unelected scum can make laws however cleverly disguised as rules and regs ‘for our own good’. Why dont these fools ever protest against the REAL threat to the environment, GEOENGINEERING. Rainwater and snow caps should NEVER contain aluminum!!!!! CA is on the brink from weather warfare, as Africa has been for the past 3 decades. This bs has got to end NOW.

Harry Wookiee
January 24, 2016 at 2:29 PM

So, what can we do about it?

Kicker
January 31, 2016 at 7:50 PM

just one more strategy driving people out of rural areas and forcing them to congregate in urban areas where they are more easily controlled. (i.e., Agenda 21)

Hopefully Trump will win and fire all of these hoodlums. Go Trump! I support Trump for no other reason than to retaliate against the system; he can do no worse than what we’ve had. Let’s teach them all a lesson – WE THE PEOPLE RULE AND NOT GOVERNMENT! If not, kiss your nation goodbye.

James
June 13, 2016 at 1:31 PM

They just passed a new law now 2016 if u fart u will get a fine of a 100 bucks !! There saying that too many farts are being release into the air and that is the cause of global warming !!! So don’t fart cause u will be fine a 100 bucks !! Freaking ass !!!!!!!Holes!!!!! Look at all the air planes in the air and all the cars and all the coil buring they just want u to pay them to heat your home and then they can put there fart in the air for us to breath !! They will pay when Jesus comes for us pepole who do right !!

joy
June 26, 2016 at 9:55 PM

Screw the EPA! What are they going to do when the public decides they want to be free and EVERYONE goes off grid? That is when they will see they aren’t shit and neither are their “rules”.

j. adelman
February 5, 2017 at 1:04 AM

I might be a little late to this discussion,but I see people on here talking about 1949. I would be willing to bet most people on here don’t realize that when you look into pollution in the United States years ago,it was worse than it is now. As there were 29,000 Steam Locomotives on Class-1 Railroads in the United States by the end of 1949,most of which burned Coal. There were also a lot more Steel Mills in the U.S. back then,that polluted too. But since we don’t make as many things as we did back then,China makes a lot of our products,we don’t get pollution from as many Steel Mills in the States as we did back then. Period.

j. adelman
February 5, 2017 at 1:05 AM

Check-out–Historical sizes of Railroads.

John Marks
October 23, 2017 at 4:35 PM

It is sad that regulations are making it harder and harder to use the best heat available… I love my Kuma Sequoia wood stove! https://www.kumastoves.com/Store/ProductDetails/sequoia It does have the highest EPA rating in the industry so it may make some of the greenies happy. 🙂

Authors

CFACT Advisor Larry Bell heads the graduate program in space architecture at the University of Houston. He founded and directs the Sasakawa International Center for Space Architecture. He is also the author of "Climate of Corruption: Politics and Power Behind the Global Warming Hoax."

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