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Former Rep. Ann Mah hinted at her post-legislative agenda Tuesday, appearing at a hearing to poke holes in Secretary of State Kris Kobach's claims of rampant voter fraud.

Kobach was pushing a bill to allow him authority to prosecute double voting and other election crimes, which is opposed by county and district attorneys who say they have the situation under control.

Mah testified as "neutral," but she suggested the Senate Judiciary Committee take a hard look at SB 63, which also would shift double-voting from a misdemeanor to a felony.

"We had 787 ballots thrown out between the primary and general election for no voter ID," Mah said. "If you guys want to work on a serious problem, maybe that's it. But if you want to give the secretary prosecutorial powers, I don't care. The people we're after for double voting are snowbirds. If we think it's a great idea to haul somebody's silver-haired mother off to jail, go for it."

Mah, a Democrat who represented south Topeka before she was narrowly defeated this past fall, was a frequent Kobach critic during the secretary's successful forays urging legislation requiring voter IDs and proof of citizenship to register to vote.

Sen. David Haley, D-Kansas City, made light of Mah's decision to testify as "neutral" Tuesday, but it seemed to genuinely irk some of the Republicans on the committee.

"I think it would be more appropriate if you looked at your testimony for what it really is," said Sen. Julia Lynn, R-Olathe.

Kobach testified that voter fraud is a real problem but is rarely prosecuted because locals focus on other crime.

“These crimes always find their way to the bottom of the stack," Kobach said. "Why is that? Because county attorneys are overworked and understaffed.”

Kobach also lamented a lack of appetite for handing down serious penalties for voting crimes. He noted that of the 11 double-voting violations his office has referred for prosecution, only two have been adjudicated and those resulted in diversion — essentially a warning that keeps an offender's criminal record clean.

"So, 11 cases, all slam dunks, all should have been convictions," Kobach said. "But instead we have no convictions, no penalties, no deterrence."

Kobach pointed to a case in which a man voted in two Kansas counties for three straight elections.

Johnson County District Attorney Stephen Howe took exception to some of Kobach's characterizations in his testimony on behalf of the Kansas County and District Attorneys Association. Howe said Kobach's bird’s-eye view of widespread voter fraud crumbles when investigated by those on the ground.

For instance, Howe said one double-voter his office investigated was an elderly man showing "the early stages of dementia." Howe's office notified the man's family rather than prosecute him.

Another alleged double voter was a developmentally disabled man.

“Are we supposed to prosecute that case?" Howe asked. "I chose not to.”

Even in cases that he thought constituted legitimate fraud, Howe said he believes diversion is appropriate for an offender with no criminal record.

"You've gotten their attention," Howe said.

Mah said that when she asked Kobach for data on fraud in the 2010 election, he provided her with 41 possible instances. Noting that they only resulted in two prosecutions, she questioned how many were legitimately criminal.

Haley asked her how that compared to the total number of ballots cast.

Mah said she didn't have the statistical percentage on hand, but "there would be so many zeroes after the decimal point, you’d have to have a pretty big sheet of paper to print it on.”

Sen. Forrest Knox, R-Altoona, referenced Mah's own race against Rep. Ken Corbet — which she lost by 21 votes — as an example of how even sparse voter fraud can influence an election.

"Races are settled by one vote, so sometimes one vote is very important,” Knox said.

Mah agreed but suggested that disenfranchisement of legal voters due to the voter ID law had a larger impact and told Knox she is preparing a "white paper" on the subject. Mah said after the hearing she is willing to help Lenexa Democrat Randy Rolston in his quest to unseat Kobach next year.

Howe said he wholeheartedly supports the voter ID law. But his organization is against giving Kobach authority to prosecute, telling Lynn "the system is not broken."

Lynn and Sen. Mary Pilcher-Cook, R-Shawnee, suggested otherwise, with Lynn saying she believes public trust in election results is eroding.

“I think this is a problem," Lynn said. "You can look at nationally some of the kind of situations we’ve had.”

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Let me get this straight - KK wants the power to prosecute because this (alleged) voter fraud isn't taken seriously enough and diversions aren't appropriate. BUT when KOMA violations occur (much more frequently) then just some extra training is OK because most of them are found to be "technical" violations.

Which one really causes more possible problems - snow-birds and mentally challenged people, or policitians who know (or should) exactly what they are doing and are hiding from the public ???

And please take note, I did not specify a party. There are plenty of examples from both sides.

If you think KK is dangerous now, just wait to see what happens if he gets this power. He has been after this ever since he was elected.

rest with the County Attorneys. Even if you assume for argument's sake that it should be prosecuted directly by the State of Kansas, that looks more like it should be handled by the Attorney General's office.

Kobach is one ambitious youngster. You just know if he had the money, he'd like to go against Brownback next year. Instead he will wait. But you know he'll try for it.

Those of you who have said that "it can't get any worse than Brownback" I can only tell you to "Behold!"

“I think this is a problem," Lynn said. "You can look at nationally some of the kind of situations we’ve had.”

What situations? Please provide evidence that voter fraud is a salient issue. Don't just refer vaguely to your self-created boogeyman without any actual data. If you want to know why people's trust in elections are eroding why not start with your own hyperbolic actions and scare tactics that have been consistently thrown out to help drive Voter ID, Citizenship, and reduction in advance voting programs.

Prosecuting the infinitesimal number of legitimate voter fraud cases should remain the purview of DAs and county attorneys who actually deal with criminal law on a daily basis opposed to the Secretary of State who deals with it only for political gain.

Because as Kansas Republican Party chair, I recall something about some money....oh wait, that was one of his staffers! Kobach wasn't there. But now he is here. We should all be glad that Kobach is in fact in the state today, working on our behalf. Say goodbye to the old bogeyman (illegal immigration) and hello to the new bogeyman (shadowy voting fraudsters). Kobach is a wonderfully fine example of a politician: he works so hard to accomplish so little.

my opposition here is in the fact that a County Attorney will treat this like the crime that it is. If we give this ambitious polly-tician the authority to prosecute crimes, you know he will go at every suspected offense like a hungry hyena.

Sorry, but I trust such as the KCDAA (Kansas County & District Attorneys Association) with prosecutorial power far more than a state official. And as I pointed out, even if you're going to give Original Jurisdiction to the state, this should be within the authority of the Attorney General.

Because you've just done the exact same thing by referring to some unverifiable voter fraud claim.

It seems that Ann Mah's point, seconded by DA Howe, is that county and district attorneys are the persons in the best position to determine what course of action to take with voter fraud cases. Prosecutorial discretion is something best exercised by people with prosecutorial experience and less of a clear political agenda as our current SOS, Kris Kobach.

Pat Roberts voted against the Violence Against Women Bill today - I think it is clear that Kansas men wouldn't give any woman a chance to do anything without criticism especially old men with nothing to do but impotently gripe about everything on their computers. You go Ann!! - prove Kobach is the second rate, not too intelligent misanthrope and control freak we know he is.

... cheated out of legitimate votes especially from Osage County where the three republicans in charge were even seen on a television news segment SHREDDING and permanently destroying any record of legitimate votes for both Corbet and Ann Mah. Every entry you post on this site irks me and is an offense to responsible Kansans and "Americans" and I cannot stomach that you've titled yourself "American!" Posting on these blogs is not something I do very often but your posts bring me in, thanks.

If the voter really has dementia or developmental disabilities, what lesson are you expecting them to learn by spending a lot of time and money on prosecuting them to the fullest extent of the law? What lesson are you expecting *other* people with dementia and developmental disabilities to learn when they see this vigorous prosecution?

I don't know the details of these two specific cases, but it's not exactly unheard-of for somebody to cast an absentee ballot, then get confused and show up at the polls anyway and cast another ballot. I've also heard of people voting in the morning, then trying to vote again in the afternoon at the exact same polling place because they have absolutely no memory that they voted earlier. (It would also be possible for somebody who has recently moved, e.g. into assisted living, to try voting at the old precinct because that's familiar to them, as well as the new "correct" place.) These are people voting under their own names and with no foul intentions.

The standard instructions for poll workers are to hand out provisional ballots to everybody who comes in, even if they aren't in the poll book or are on the advance voter list, and then let the electon office sort out who voted only once but in the wrong precinct, who voted twice, who voted only once and in the correct precinct because the book was wrong, etc.

"So, 11 cases, all slam dunks, all should have been convictions," he said. "But instead we have no convictions, no penalties, no deterrence." So the County Attorney's or DAs did not prosecute like KK would want them to. He is saying he is so good and would not give diversion to anyone of the 11 cases which he did not investigate but makes decisions without knowing what the facts are.. Yes he really knows what he knows and facts do not matter. Not only is he crazy but power hungry too.

It's not that they are excused for violating the law. It's a question of what purpose is served by hauling an 80-year-old man to jail because he has Alzheimer's and can't remember what he did. Do you regard that as advancing the cause of justice?

Then, too, lack of mens rea is a defense to most crimes in Kansas, and something a prosecutor has to keep in mind when dealing with the mentally challenged, Mens rea is loosely defined as intent (literally, 'guilty mind'): the law on voting more than once requires proof that the accused "knowingly and willfully" did so. Now, as a prosecutor, how do you prove that some guy with dementia *knowingly* voted twice as opposed to got confused? If you can't prove he knew he was voting twice, you can't get a conviction, and you just wasted the time you spent on the case.