A few new members have arrived with critical things to say about Eckhart. This is refreshing!! Thanks for joining!! Most of us are big fans, of course, me included, but even kiki has discouraged a member from worrying about ET's use of the word "grace."

I have problems with ET's vague definition of "ego." And he tiptoes around subjects like reincarnation and prayer. And so forth...

Anyone else have complaints? - maybe we can concentrate them here.

The goals are clarity and truth, as much as words can approach them. Remember this is a "discussion community" - doesn't mean you have to be enlightened to enter. Doesn't mean you have to agree with anybody, either. Does mean, however, you have to be courteous...check the Rules... http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... f=9&t=2051

Bring 'em on...

Namaste, Andy

A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

Wait a moment where was Doug he was here now I am all alone, well my posts stands just for conversation, maybe the next topic can be Randji bashingLOL

Not only ET but anyone that does what I cited below I have a big problem with but since you asked here it is.

!. He has taken something that happens to all of us sooner or later and turned it into a very commercialized business of making money. None of the real masters have done this.
It is not true that everyone has the same access to his teachings. If you cannot pay the door price your not allowed in.

2. He has taken what is not a complicated subject as non duality and made it something very different by inventing concepts over concepts just for the sake of making more money by selling more ideas which sells more books,DVDs etc. IOWs he keeps making the same old thing something new. This is known in the marketing industry as stamping the words ..New and Improved..in hopes of selling more.

3. His basic ideas are not his not new they are the same very old truths just placed in a different package designed to sell to the masses. Nothing at all wrong with this idea excepts when it comes to spirituality. Things of spirit needs to be free if not how would you like paying for the air you breathe.

Now before I need to run to the bomb shelter let it be said I do respect who ET is
and have enjoyed his books and maybe he gives back as much as he gets.
I only have issue with the commerical way he goes about selling non duality.

That's about it from me.
Peace
Randji

Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

These are not from me, but from what I heard from another site. Over there, ET is notorious. Are you ready?

1. Justifying suffering by encouraging people to do nothing and just staying in the now.
2. Encouraging ignoring pain in our body, so it's pathology, potentially could causing lawsuits of sick people ignoring their illness.
3. Detached from reality (When he first become "awakened", he wandered around in a park for two years without being a working contributing individual.)
4. Greedy in the profits from books, talks, products....
5. Supporting to the continuing of "the system," which is the cause of today's problematic world (PTB means the conspiracy behind everything that's being run in our society, ranging from the goverenment to 911 to Katrina, all part of the conpiracy) by encouraging people to be peaceful and calm and being in denial of needing to uproot everything.
6. Encouraging the concept that pain and suffering is the problem of individuals, while the real problem and real cause is the PTB, the system, the conspiracy.
7. Encouraging the concept of our pain being illusion. (They said when so many people are dying of hunger, how can we say that's an illusion.)

Again this is from another website and like I said, I am exhausted in trying to explain ET to them.

DWBH1953 wrote:Wait a moment where was Doug he was here now I am all alone, well my posts stands just for conversation, maybe the next topic can be Randji bashingLOL

Not only ET but anyone that does what I cited below I have a big problem with but since you asked here it is.

!. He has taken something that happens to all of us sooner or later and turned it into a very commercialized business of making money. None of the real masters have done this.
It is not true that everyone has the same access to his teachings. If you cannot pay the door price your not allowed in.

Really? I honestly don't think this happens to all of us sooner or later, that's why so many people commit suicide, murder others etc. . For $15 (the power of now) I would say everything I've learned from his has been worth it. Eckhart is living practically, I don't think the fact that he hasn't gone to live in the mountains means he isn't a 'real master'.

2. He has taken what is not a complicated subject as non duality and made it something very different by inventing concepts over concepts just for the sake of making more money by selling more ideas which sells more books,DVDs etc. IOWs he keeps making the same old thing something new. This is known in the marketing industry as stamping the words ..New and Improved..in hopes of selling more.

For most people, TPON will be enough. You never have to buy more of his products. You know, I'm sure he made a decent amount of money from his first book, but I doubt it was enough to last him the rest of his life. I actually appreciate his other products. When I first read TPON I could not understand it. First I read ANE and went back to TPON, the second time it made much more sense.

3. His basic ideas are not his not new they are the same very old truths just placed in a different package designed to sell to the masses. Nothing at all wrong with this idea excepts when it comes to spirituality. Things of spirit needs to be free if not how would you like paying for the air you breathe.Nor does he claim his ideas are new. I'm reading a yoga-sutra book where it is claimed Eckhart got all of his ideas. Despite having a good grasp on presence and living in the moment, I can't understand the book whatsoever. I appreciate his "repackaging".

Now before I need to run to the bomb shelter let it be said I do respect who ET is
and have enjoyed his books and maybe he gives back as much as he gets.
I only have issue with the commerical way he goes about selling non duality.

Sighclone wrote:I have problems with ET's vague definition of "ego." And he tiptoes around subjects like reincarnation and prayer. And so forth...

Anyone else have complaints? - maybe we can concentrate them here.

To be honest Andy, whenever I feel like I might have a 'problem' with his teachings, it is exactly his teachings that allow me to let go, accept my not knowing and move on. Hopefully that makes sense.

One thing that bothers me now is that I feel disconnected, mostly from humanity. I don't worry about the things I used to, and for that there is a huge amount of peace in me, but I'm also not so sure I have a purpose anymore. There are levels of happiness I gained through Ego that were far more often than the amazing (but rare) peace and joy I get from presence.

At least when you are living through the Ego, you have goals like flash cars, TV's, money, girls etc. Right now, none of that intersts me, which is fine...but nothing has taken it's place. What I'm left with, what is...doesn't quite match up.

Glen wrote:
Anyone else have complaints? - maybe we can concentrate them here.

To be honest Andy, whenever I feel like I might have a 'problem' with his teachings, it is exactly his teachings that allow me to let go, accept my not knowing and move on. Hopefully that makes sense.

One thing that bothers me now is that I feel disconnected, mostly from humanity. I don't worry about the things I used to, and for that there is a huge amount of peace in me, but I'm also not so sure I have a purpose anymore. There are levels of happiness I gained through Ego that were far more often than the amazing (but rare) peace and joy I get from presence.

At least when you are living through the Ego, you have goals like flash cars, TV's, money, girls etc. Right now, none of that intersts me, which is fine...but nothing has taken it's place. What I'm left with, what is...doesn't quite match up.

Daily meditation helped me stay in that presence very effectively. When I was in my initial experience for two years, it was bliss and awe all the time. I didn't have much and I didn't need much. But everything was just a blessing to me. At that time, all I wanted to do is to think of a way to share the bliss and awe that I have found.

At that time, I could not take more than one job due to the the application of green card still in process. I could't think of making more money, and there was not much to do. My life was a lot simplier.

It did help with staying focused in meditation.

Lately I went back to visit my country for two weeks and it was the same thing. When I was on vacation, there was no work to think about, and no where to rush to. So I had very good meditation.

I think because it's often not easy to stay present in life, technique like meditation does help in staying present, because of inner energy. With the help of inner energy, we focus on task and enjoy every moment of our daily life. Even simple food tases great.

I don't want to ever lose that.

The need for external things is the result of not staying in the present moment. When we really stay very very present, our mere existence is a joy.

The subject is "interesting". The discussion is quite humorous. Reminds me of what some people said about Jesus when he was alive. "He is crazy, he is evil, he is in cohort with Satan, let's put him down, let's crucify him". Also what people would have said about Gautama - "Crazy, so into himself, so lazy doing nothing, let's poison him".

Maybe for some, he is merely regurgitating the teachings of ancient masters. A friend once snorted that PON is just zen teachings, sounding like he knows it all. Well, that is somewhat true but aren't most teachers doing just that? Regurgitating? Repeating till the cows come home?

The reason why I got hooked on ET is because of his simple approach. I never liked reading books by some masters because of the way the books were written - profound, convoluted thesis-like texts. These books are so difficult to understand in my small simple mind. One needs to really think about what one is reading. But with ET, it is so easy to read and understand with the snap of the fingers. It's like "Eureka".

Maybe he is not the "expert" on the subject matter but he writes from the heart.

And about him making tons of money from his books and talks. Hmm... why do you think many teachers write books? Why do the Dalai Lama, Pema Chodron,
Thich Nhat Hanh, and many others write so many books? Why is there Namaste Publishing or Shambhala Publications? Primary objective : To spread the teachings. Secondary objective : To make money. The secondary objective seems to be what some of you feel ET is focusing on.

So what if he sat around doing nothing for 2 years in the park? Most monks do that. Sit around. The Buddha sat around. I would love to sit around seeing things as they are in illumination (if I could).

You think he is making too much money? That is his entitlement. He is not privileged like some masters who are supported financially by temples, centers, donors and contributors who travel for free all over. I think ET has to pay rent or buy his own home. Most of the rest collect funds (in the name of donation) to live. Look at the Dalai Lama's robes. How much do you think they cost? Looks like very good material to me. Look at how ET dresses. I don't think his suits cost as much as some monks' attire.

Let's be simple, as with the title of Shunryu Suzuki's book Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind. Let's not go into how much money ET makes, rather what value he adds to many people who have been lost and are now found. His books are quoted all over by many websites.

Worse is some people even belittle his partner Kim (I remember reading about it in one of the threads). Come on! Live and let live. Don't condemn anyone. Let's be more wholesome. After all, we want a better world, n'est pas?

What best defines the term Non Dual for me is the word "undivided". So if we are operating from a mental position of resistance, or opposition to anything, we are in a state of division or conflict. With that in mind we can't very well make the case for non dualism, if we are inwardly divided, or trying to knock something down.

Teachings, writings and language are just pointers, signposts; fingers pointing at the moon. But not the moon itself. There is no best way, no best teaching, or most accurate teaching, there are only alternatives. Take what is helpful and leave the rest. If we hold onto the signposts, or worship the messenger, we are then like fundamentalists. If we impose our views on others, we are then like zealous evangelists. It does not matter what tradition it is, or how close to the truth we believe the symbols to be. They still are just symbols of truth, and not truth itself. Words and language can be quite helpful, but they can also be a hindrance, and result in divisions and conceptualization.

In the new testament is this passage: "Not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." In the absolute sense, there is no truth in any of the teachings, (the letter), they are mere abstractions or pointers. When we have the direct experience of truth, (the spirit); when we realize we are the living expression of truth itself, we can let go of any and all signposts, symbols, pointers. They are then no longer useful or necessary. We can always pick them up again later if we feel we need them.

If we want to be whole, let's not take our thoughts seriously, because that is all that creates these divisions and oppositions. One thought believed, and hitting up against another believed thought, which appears contradictory. Rest in source, and watch thinking with detachment, the thoughts are not who we are, and they are not what is real. In oneness there are no contradictions. Yes there appears to be paradoxes in this dimension of life. Is it part of the mystery and game of consciousness unfolding, the play of form? Consciousness losing itself in form and division, so that it may rediscover what it always already is, One and undivided.

james

Last edited by James on Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

DWBH1953 wrote:Wait a moment where was Doug he was here now I am all alone, well my posts stands just for conversation, maybe the next topic can be Randji bashingLOL

Not only ET but anyone that does what I cited below I have a big problem with but since you asked here it is.

!. He has taken something that happens to all of us sooner or later and turned it into a very commercialized business of making money. None of the real masters have done this.
It is not true that everyone has the same access to his teachings. If you cannot pay the door price your not allowed in.

2. He has taken what is not a complicated subject as non duality and made it something very different by inventing concepts over concepts just for the sake of making more money by selling more ideas which sells more books,DVDs etc. IOWs he keeps making the same old thing something new. This is known in the marketing industry as stamping the words ..New and Improved..in hopes of selling more.

3. His basic ideas are not his not new they are the same very old truths just placed in a different package designed to sell to the masses. Nothing at all wrong with this idea excepts when it comes to spirituality. Things of spirit needs to be free if not how would you like paying for the air you breathe.

Now before I need to run to the bomb shelter let it be said I do respect who ET is
and have enjoyed his books and maybe he gives back as much as he gets.
I only have issue with the commerical way he goes about selling non duality.

That's about it from me.
Peace
Randji

not true at all. His books can be obtained for free at any library in the US. You can watch hours of him speaking on youtube for free. That's plenty enough info to become more conscious.

rockchuk wrote:
not true at all. His books can be obtained for free at any library in the US. You can watch hours of him speaking on youtube for free. That's plenty enough info to become more conscious.

Try to go to any of his talks for free. Again I wrote what I wrote more for conversation ET is not the only one that makes Spirituality into a money making business.
I understand this is the way the world is today its all about money, and power. I know it will not changed back to the good old days. I am just giving my opinion here because we were asked.
Youtube is great for what it is, watching 5 or 10 mins here and there but far from the same as watching a full program. ET and others use youtube as a great marketing tool known as a teaser hoping that you will purchase the whole program once you see a bit of it.
Like I said I am old school where people never had to pay for teachings of Spirituality.
I love my old teacher Kirpal Singh of Surat shabda Yoga all the books he wrote never had a copyright to them, he said the words of god needs to be free for all. Because of that many other branches in Surat Shabda Yoge have copied his books and millions of others have read his works.
Peace
Randji

Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana