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Re: UK Basketball 8th Edition

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

If last year's regular season didn't matter, why should last year's last five games? Or IU's last four?

Last year is last year, after all.

This year, neither team has all that much talent. Zeller's a stud. Likely POY, in fact. After that, it's a crapshoot. A freshman PG? Especially one that's not considered an elite (re, top five) recruit. He's also tiny, which will hurt IU as they play larger guards. Others are role players. Hull can shoot, but can't defend. Watford's a shooter that gets into funks and can't buy a basket that took a giant step backward last season. Oladipo has tons of talent, but cannot shoot outside of ten feet and is turnover prone.

Overall, IU's got a great center, but is going to rely almost completely on Zeller, spot-up shooters, and an undersized PG who's quick but tiny.

That's fine, though, as no one else has any talent returning either.

Louisville's Siva is great one game and horrid for three. There's no in-between in his game. Deng is very good and has a chance to be dominating. But his game is still a work in progress. Benahan is a 6'5" power forward. I like his girth, but he can't shoot and has little in the way of offensive moves other than bulling around the basket. And this team cannot shoot. At all. Their best shooter graduated, too. As did their second-best shooter.

Michigan, to me, looks decent. OSU has Deshaun Thomas, who I like to blossom into a 20/10 guy, and Aaron Craft. Florida has five good players but doesn't play much D. Kansas has Withey and a couple nice role players in Johnson and Relaford.

That's pretty much it.

Maybe UCLA or Kentucky freshmen blossom into a special team. I don't see it in either area this year. (Kentucky doesn't look to be able to shoot either.) Maybe IU players all take a step forward. Maybe Louisville's guys learn how to shoot.

But at this point, there's no question the talent level is down across the game.

Interesting analysis. Of which I will laugh and agree to disagree. IU has their starting five back, or did you not know that. It aint like they are handing the PG spot to the freshman. You also evidently havent looked at the rest of IU's recruiting class. Pretty formidable. Spot up shooters? You didnt even mention Watford. We dont even know what Creek's status is.

Listen guys, I know Indiana basketball and follow the rest. I really try not to step on any toes when discussing it, because I love the game and cherish it. I like good conversations about it period. But nonsensical statements and/or absolute opinionated things dont work for me, especially when it comes from the ORG members that are supposed to have "quality" comments.

Re: UK Basketball 8th Edition

First and Second picks in the draft! That is awesome. Hope MKG gets traded though.

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)

"Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"

There's no power forward here aside from Thomas, who gave up basketball five years ago, but forgot to tell anyone. If Cho could sign a guy like Ilyasova or Atawn Jamison, he cold kill two birds with one stone, so to speak-- a knock-down shooter who can also rebound a bit and play some D. If not Ilyasova or Jamison, I'd go after Kris Humphries (very good rebounder and decent defensively), Chris Kaman, Carl Landry, or Michael Beasley.

If not free agency, they might get involved in a trade or two, dealing a restricted free agent or two for one or two of another team. I'd look into dealing DJ Augustin, for example, to Denver for Javale McGee or even Rudy Fernandez. Aaron Brooks and Robin Lopez would also look awfully good in Charlotte in lieu of Augustin and DJ White.

They'd still be below average, too young, and need another weapon or two. But next year's free agent class looks to be much better, and next season's draft could also provide some help. (Imagine the younger Zeller as a C with this team. Or how about Shabazz Muhamed as a SG teaming with MKG?

They have some hope, IMO. If they can make some clever moves.

"You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
-- Christy Matthewson
"Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
-- Leo Durocher

Re: UK Basketball 8th Edition

Originally Posted by LexRedsFan

And I told you WHY I don't see it. And I told you why they shouldn't be ranked high.

Jesus, do you even read this thread or just come in here to troll UK fans?

Actually I come here to read(and I said READ) what quality CBB fans have to say. As a fan of IU, I hate UK. But as I have said time and time again(which evidently you didnt read), I absolutely respect them and their tradition. And I value what their "level-headed" fans have to say. My 72 year old Aunt, who is the biggest UK fan I know, has forgotten more about college basketball than you will ever know.

Re: UK Basketball 8th Edition

Originally Posted by Assembly Hall

You really crack me up. IU and UL the worst 1-2 in the history of college basketball? Give me a break dude. What do Louisville and IU have to do in your opinion to have solidified their pre-season ranking?

I went back 40 years in the AP poll. Of those 40 seasons, only 14 times that the team started at #1 finished at #1. Of those 14 teams, only 6 won the National Championship.

IU and Louisville have all their important pieces coming back from strong tournament runs. Nobody out there has as much talent returning.

Sorry, but I didn't consider IU or UofL's tourney runs that impressive. The UK/IU game was great, but that was just one game. UofL got to the Final Four not because of how they played, but because they played a very overrated MSU team and then got the game with Florida handed to them. The most impressive games IU and UofL played, were the losses to UK. You can talk about all the so-called talent IU and UofL has coming back, but the only reason they'll be 1-2 is the talent level nationally will be down. It seems that only IU and UofL fans refuse to admit that.

"I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

Re: UK Basketball 8th Edition

Originally Posted by New York Red

Sorry, but I didn't consider IU or UofL's tourney runs that impressive. The UK/IU game was great, but that was just one game. UofL got to the Final Four not because of how they played, but because they played a very overrated MSU team and then got the game with Florida handed to them. The most impressive games IU and UofL played, were the losses to UK. You can talk about all the so-called talent IU and UofL has coming back, but the only reason they'll be 1-2 is the talent level nationally will be down. It seems that only IU and UofL fans refuse to admit that.

Then again, some of us don't give a flying fig about preseason rankings. They only matter in regards to NCAA Football.

Simply put, IU, Louisville will now be the hunted and we'll see how they deal with that.

I don't have any problem "admitting" that, unless several newcomers play way above their heads with several teams nationally, the talent level will be down. Where I and others disagree with many Wildcat fans is the assertion that, even though a ton of talent exited NCAA ball following the season's conclusion, the talent translated to several "all-time great teams" last year--the Wildcats the obvious exception. Yeah, some may have really good, but it is still laughable to me to suggest that last years UNC team healthy was on par with '05, '08 or '09--four lottery picks or not. Does anybody really believe that '11 Kansas wouldn't have been blown out by the '08 squad?

Syracuse? No question losing Melo really hurt, but I'm not so sure that Notre Dame with a healthy Abromaitis isn't as good, or better than the Cuse. And Notre Dame still wouldn't have placed one player in the lottery or first round to the Cuses two.

I wouldn't presume to speak for Assembly Hall, but I'm fairly confident that this is what he meant regarding NBA talent translating to the College game, instead of vise/versa, and he seems to present a very argument.

"I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

Re: UK Basketball 8th Edition

Originally Posted by New York Red

Sorry, but I didn't consider IU or UofL's tourney runs that impressive. The UK/IU game was great, but that was just one game. UofL got to the Final Four not because of how they played, but because they played a very overrated MSU team and then got the game with Florida handed to them. The most impressive games IU and UofL played, were the losses to UK. You can talk about all the so-called talent IU and UofL has coming back, but the only reason they'll be 1-2 is the talent level nationally will be down. It seems that only IU and UofL fans refuse to admit that.

Once again, I dont understand where you are coming from. I can't speak for the Cards but I can speak for the Hoosiers. "so-called" talent that IU has? Give me a break. If some guys from IU would have come out early they would have had 2 guys go in the 1st round, maybe 3. Zellar, on most sites I get on is projected as the #1 pick next year. Take off the blinders, it seems that you being a UK fan, cant seem to deal with your two rivals being 1-2.

Re: UK Basketball 8th Edition

Then again, some of us don't give a flying fig about preseason rankings. They only matter in regards to NCAA Football.

Simply put, IU, Louisville will now be the hunted and we'll see how they deal with that.

I don't have any problem "admitting" that, unless several newcomers play way above their heads with several teams nationally, the talent level will be down. Where I and others disagree with many Wildcat fans is the assertion that, even though a ton of talent exited NCAA ball following the season's conclusion, the talent translated to several "all-time great teams" last year--the Wildcats the obvious exception. Yeah, some may have really good, but it is still laughable to me to suggest that last years UNC team healthy was on par with '05, '08 or '09--four lottery picks or not. Does anybody really believe that '11 Kansas wouldn't have been blown out by the '08 squad?

Syracuse? No question losing Melo really hurt, but I'm not so sure that Notre Dame with a healthy Abromaitis isn't as good, or better than the Cuse. And Notre Dame still wouldn't have placed one player in the lottery or first round to the Cuses two.

I wouldn't presume to speak for Assembly Hall, but I'm fairly confident that this is what he meant regarding NBA talent translating to the College game, instead of vise/versa, and he seems to present a very argument.

Re: UK Basketball 8th Edition

I'm looking at a 2013 mock draft right now. Zeller is listed #1. The next IU player (and only other IU player) listed is Watford at #42. No UofL player is listed in either the first or second round. So we're talking a total of one player in the top 40 picks from the preseason #1 and #2 teams in the country. If that doesn't tell you how down college basketball will be next year, I don't know how else to explain it for you. I'm sure if you were a fan of any other school but IU or UofL, you would easily admit what's obvious to everyone else. The fact that I'm a UK fan doesn't prevent me from stating facts. UK is being mentioned as preseason top five (even top three in some rankings), but there is no way this UK team is ranked that high most other years.

"I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

Re: UK Basketball 8th Edition

Originally Posted by New York Red

I'm looking at a 2013 mock draft right now. Zeller is listed #1. The next IU player (and only other IU player) listed is Watford at #42. No UofL player is listed in either the first or second round. So we're talking a total of one player in the top 40 picks from the preseason #1 and #2 teams in the country. If that doesn't tell you how down college basketball will be next year, I don't know how else to explain it for you. I'm sure if you were a fan of any other school but IU or UofL, you would easily admit what's obvious to everyone else. The fact that I'm a UK fan doesn't prevent me from stating facts. UK is being mentioned as preseason top five (even top three in some rankings), but there is no way this UK team is ranked that high most other years.

Listen Big Apple Red, read your history books. Didnt Duke have a couple of guys go in the first round? I see they fared well in the tournament. Didnt Washington have two guys go in the first round? I see they fared well in the tournament. You seem to continuosly equate NBA talent to the college level. Green from MSU was one of the three best college players last year, where did he go in the draft? Your facts dont have anything to do with the college game, you are basing your opinion on how NBA mock drafts look at the current crop of college players and then projecting how the college game is gonna be. That aint the case. There have been great college guys that didnt have a chance in the NBA and there have been duds in college that excelled in the NBA. My 1987 IU team was great, they were built as a unit. How many guys from that squad even got drafted? They were a freakin' college team that finished the season as National Champs and beat some of your NBA talent along the way.

Try to look at it like college football. No one can argue that Doug Flutie, Turner Gill, or Tony Rice werent great QB's at the college level. Flutie won the Heisman, Rice won a national championship, and Gill was the signal caller on one of the greatest teams I ever saw. Where did they go in the draft?

As my business partner always says......."I will never get into a battle of wits with an unarmed man.".........I hope he isnt a member of this board!

I've largely avoided this thread because I grew tired of this Louisville sucks argument three months ago but I have to call you on your mock draft analysis. Shockingly, you seem to have picked the only mock without a Louisville player. I just checked the first 5 on Google and all but one had Dieng and Blackshear, and Siva makes it in the second round occasionally. To illustrate the futility of mock drafts in July (and this discussion) Dieng went as low as undrafted to as high as the lottery.

I know UK fans hate it but Louisville has a great team for next year. Offensively, they may struggle unless Siva improves but they proved last year they could make the final four with great defense. Louisville fans are excited about both football and basketball and have every rite to be.

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