Ok so just had a go with this one, and while the New Paradigm convoy is now working and within a couple of minuets of landing you get the video telling you that the New Paradigm are absconding with the artefact and that you need to intercept them before they escape as expected.

I do note that the computer no longer comes after me once i pick up the artifice, i do know this is how it was in the original game, and that at some later point the behaviour of the garrison units was changed so they'd come after you after you pick up the artefact so not I'm sure if this is an intended change or not.

I also checked the loose condition and that seems a little hinky you aren't supposed to loose until the New Paradigm tank that is carrying the artefact boards there drop ship and leaves the area, however the way it is now the game ends as soon as that unit reaches the plateau where there drop zone is located which is incorrect.

i also note that the tank carrying the artefact goes the wrong way, the tank carrying the artefact is supposed to go round the back of the base because the ramp at the front is blocked by tank traps so if it goes that way it wont be able to reach the drop zone.

In addition I note that the units that are supposed to be escorting the tank carrying the artefact don't stick together which is also incorrect behaviour the escorts are supposed to stay with there charge.

Alpha 11
Looks good. What I noticed is, that the winning conditions are now pick up the artifact and destroy anything of the NP. As far as I know the winning conditions were picking up the artifact and destroy all troops of the NP. It was not necessary to destroy all buildings. I'm not sure if we should stay with what we have or should go back to the old conditions. I like it as it is, but on insane it could be a little bit to tough for some players to destroy the NP complete in the shorter time.

Oddly enough having just done that level i completely cleared the map of all units and structures with 5 minuets left on the clock on insane so its definitely doable, you do however have to have all your ducks in a row before starting Alpha 11 because if you are having to wait for units to board your drop ship you wont have time to finished the level, the way i get round this is to leave 1 unit alive at the end of Alpha 10 so that the level doesn't end, that will then give me time to get all my units back to base and get my Alpha 11 away team organise and assembled at the landing pad so that i can take off Immediately upon starting Alpha 11.

Bethrezen wrote:
I do note that the computer no longer comes after me once i pick up the artifice, i do know this is how it was in the original game, and that at some later point the behaviour of the garrison units was changed so they'd come after you after you pick up the artefact so not I'm sure if this is an intended change or not.

When all victory conditions are met (excluding instant win by total map annihilation) all units are grouped together and attack the player. For off-world missions the "Return to LZ" message signals that scenario. I changed it so the player needs to also destroy all New Paradigm units like before the conversion and updated the lose conditions.

Bethrezen wrote:
i also note that the tank carrying the artefact goes the wrong way, the tank carrying the artefact is supposed to go round the back of the base because the ramp at the front is blocked by tank traps so if it goes that way it wont be able to reach the drop zone.

In addition I note that the units that are supposed to be escorting the tank carrying the artefact don't stick together which is also incorrect behaviour the escorts are supposed to stay with there charge.

I don't think its a good idea for them to stick together at the moment as the whole group will be slowed down by that one heavy tank (the last one remaining in the group gives the artifact). If enemy group units could all move at the same speed then it would be feasible to change it back.

I don't think its a good idea for them to stick together at the moment as the whole group will be slowed down by that one heavy tank (the last one remaining in the group gives the artifact). If enemy group units could all move at the same speed then it would be feasible to change it back

That's rather specious reasoning isn't it ? because as i understand the lost condition should only trigger if the tank that is carrying the artefact boards the transport and escapes so the fact that the escorts move faster is irrelevant because the escorts have no bearing on whither the player looses that is solely determined by the tank carrying the artefact, so leaving the tank carrying the artefact unguarded is foolish i mean why bother with escorts at all if there not going to guard there charge ?

Alpha 12
Ok so just had another go at this and its still proving to be a real up hill struggle so far its taken me 30 minutes just to get out of my landing zone collect the artefact and research hover propulsion, because the fighting is near constant and basically I'm spending all my time just trying to defend my self, and even with lancers I can't kill them quick enough.

When I finally managed to get my squads converted to hover propulsion I still made almost no head way because its near impossible to get into there base every time I try I get swarmed and ripped to pieces because hovercraft are weakly armoured and thus far I have not been able to complete this level I keep running out of time, as it is I was down to 15 minutes on that last run by the time I finally got close enough that I could destroyed there first 2 tank factorys and at that point it became evident I wasn’t going to make it because I still had way to much to do so I just turned it off, as far as I'm concerned 1 hour 20 isn't even remotely close to enough, given how long it took me just to get near there base I'm looking at needing something approaching double the time to stand any realistic chance of completing it if players are going to have to fight through that level of resistance don’t get me wrong it’s a good challenge but 1 hour 20 minutes is woefully inadequate.

Alpha 12
Still very tough, but I could finish the stage in time and get prepared for beta. NP Landing zone is now down, when the buildings are destroyed.

Some how I very much doubt that, because its taking me over an hour just to get near there base there is no way you can possible shut down there landing zone, destroyed there base, do all the research and make preparations for Beta 01 in 1 hour 20 minutes that's not even remotely possible, and if it is I'd like to know how because so far every tactic I have tried has resulted in the same out come running out of time.

if you go full hover mode to avoid having to fight your way through the zurg then when you get to there base all there units that you would otherwise be fighting if you go up the middle will be situated around there factories and when you try to approach you get swarmed and flatten due to hovercraft being weakly armoured.

Going up the middle is no better because even with heavy body's and tracks you simply take damage to quick to sustain any kind of an advance, and you have to fight your way past all there turrets as well

Don't know if going up the east side of there base would be any better, haven't tried that, but some how I doubt it because you are still going to have to deal with the same basic issue when you try to approach there base, aka getting swarmed and killed because hover craft are weakly armoured.

Alpha 12
Still very tough, but I could finish the stage in time and get prepared for beta. NP Landing zone is now down, when the buildings are destroyed.

Some how I very much doubt that, because its taking me over an hour just to get near there base there is no way you can possible shut down there landing zone, destroyed there base, do all the research and make preparations for Beta 01 in 1 hour 20 minutes that's not even remotely possible, and if it is I'd like to know how because so far every tactic I have tried has resulted in the same out come running out of time

.

Yes I did and you can see at the picture below, that with 5 minutes left on the clock everything except the NP HQ is destroyed.

I use a little trick to pick up the hover-artifact very soon. The first two transports I bring in heavy lancer tanks attached to a commander and some trucks for defense buildings. Then I bring in a group of 8 cyborgs and send them directly in a suicide action through the gap between the tank traps to the artifact. So I can catch the artifact in about 5 minutes of play time.

Then I bring in a bunch of bombard tanks with a sensor truck, recycle the lancers and the commander and build a group of 16 hover python lancer tanks attached to a hover python commander. Then I fight my way north at the western edge until I stand at the western entrance to the base with the two heavy and two cyborg factories.

As you can see I needed 25 minutes till that point. Then I destroyed in a lot of hit and run attacks the two lancer hardpoints, a lot of their units and the two heavy factories. Cause I like it to gain experience I let the cyborg factories alive but you could destroy them too. Then I build a group of repair facilities on the hill behind the heavy factories and placed that combat group there. Because of that all reinforcements and produced units attacks these group, so that I could move forward with my bombard group over land through the middle.

After everything except the NP HQ were destroyed I recycled the bombard group and build units for beta mission. Then I destroyed the NP HQ and had enough time in cam_1end to recycle the rest of my units and complete my combat group for beta.

Then I bring in a group of 8 cyborgs and send them directly in a suicide action through the gap between the tank traps to the artefact. So I can catch the artefact in about 5 minutes of play time.

an interesting idea.

Then I destroyed in a lot of hit and run attacks the two lancer hardpoints, a lot of their units and the two heavy factories. Cause I like it to gain experience I let the cyborg factories alive but you could destroy them too. Then I build a group of repair facilities on the hill behind the heavy factories and placed that combat group there. Because of that all reinforcements and produced units attacks these group, so that I could move forward with my bombard group over land through the middle.

After everything except the NP HQ were destroyed I recycled the bombard group and build units for beta mission. Then I destroyed the NP HQ and had enough time in cam_1end to recycle the rest of my units and complete my combat group for beta.

A little bit tricky but possible

humm... oddly enough that sounds similar to what I'm doing

the first group is 8 heavy body tracked lancers a commander and a builder
the second group is the other 10 lancers,
the third group is a scanner and 9 bombards,
the fourth group is the other 9 bombards and a mobile repair unit
the fifth and sixth drop ships is my heavy machine gun group, the commander and a builder

once i have all my squads and the hover artefact I'll start to convert them to hover units typically, 1 squad of hover lancers and 2 squads of hover bombards to make taking there turrets apart quicker, I'd use bunker busters but they can't hit most of there turrets

I'll then move up the west side of the map and try to shut down there factories so that i can go about clearing the map without being pestered by hover units constantly, typically the drop zone is one of the last things i end up dealing with, where i get in to problems is every time i try to go up the ramp to go after to there factories i get swarmed by zillions of units, using the artillery helps here as they wont react if they don't see you which makes killing them easier but it takes forever, I tried with hover lancers and they get crushed there's just to many of them.

Another tactic i tried was building 4 repair bays just in front of where you get the hover artefact and then sitting a group of heavy body tracked lancers in-between them to draw there fire, that tactic did work in the past but now that i have no ability to make my units stay still it doesn't work

The issue i had when i tried this is that i cant make my units stay still inside the repaid bay zone, so I was continually being distracted by the zurg because my units seem to be incapable of keeping them selves repaired so i kept having to stop what i was doing to go deal with it to stop my units getting trounced, because what i was finding happening is that the units at the front would get damaged and wouldn't be able to retreat to get repaired due to the other units behind them getting in the way.

I've also tried using more or less every weapon available to you on this level and they are all more or less useless because they don't deal enough damage, only lancers and bombards are actually worth using I've found

Ok so just tried to continue twice and the game keeps crashing as soon as i try to end alpha 02 i get to the level completely screen but as soon as I hit continue the game freezes and i have to kill the it via task manager so this version of the master is completely unplayable for me.

Last edited by Bethrezen on 21 Aug 2017, 00:13, edited 1 time in total.

What I also do is to play with as few units as possible. I played alpha with just 30 combat units. In alpha 12 one hover commander, 16 hover lancers, one tracked sensor and 12 tracked bombards. The reason is that I have the goal for myself to end the game with as much hero units as possible. And once I had 40 hero units in gamma 9. 10 from gamma 4 and 30 by gained experience. So in alpha 12 my units are not weaker than elite, some are special. And attached to a commander makes the hover units as weak as they are a bit stronger. I know, that you are using experienced commanders, but I don't know how much experience they have.

At alpha 12 the first group are one commander, three trucks and 6 lancers. With two of the trucks I build some lancer hardpoints north of my landing zone to stop the NP hover patrol. And I let them there to protect and repair the hardpoints. With the third truck I build a repair facility nearby the landing zone and with the combat group I attack the NP.
The second group are 10 lancers, so that I have 16 at a commander attached lancers. They can usually handle any attack at the beginning.
The third group are the 8 cyborgs and 2 more trucks. With the cyborgs I catch the artifact, with the two new trucks and one of the first transport I build some walls west of hill where the NP have a sensor and some lancer turrets. You can see it at the left of the second picture I added in my last post with the cyborgs. Behind these walls I also build two repair facilities and let the three trucks standing there. With the old hold order it was quite easier to handle, because the trucks stand there, repairs the walls when they get attacked and get repaired by the repair facilities when the trucks get damaged. With the new so called hold order they are spinning around and I have much more work to take care of them.
The forth group is a tracked sensor and 9 tracked bombards. I place them behind the wall and they beat back all attacks the NP send, even on insane with the very quick enemy production.
The next groups are three more bombards, more trucks and some repair units.

As soon as the hover artifact is researched I recycle the lancer with the commander and bring the hover combat group and some hover trucks in. My bombards stay with tracked propulsion.

And then it is an ongoing hit and run to fight my way north. And I always build some repair facilities with the hover trucks on the islands, so that the damaged units have just a short way for repair. At the same time I'm turteling north with my bombard group.

After destroying the two factories I build a circle of six repair facilities on the hill in the back of these factories. And by beeing always in motion with my hover combat group I could prevent them from getting destroyed. And when I backed up my lancer group between the circle of repair facilities I had enough time to take a look at the bombard group. I also set the hover group to retreat at medium damage. And because of that group my bombards can move north without getting attacked all time. So they are a lot faster then they would be if they also were attacked by new NP units. And they are fast enough to manage alpha 12 in time on insane.

Didn't want to get my self confused, although it seems like the current master is completely unplayable for me right now since it crashes every time i try to end alpha 2 so I'll just have to wait a little while till the problem gets resolved.

Bethrezen wrote:Didn't want to get my self confused, although it seems like the current master is completely unplayable for me right now since it crashes every time i try to end alpha 2 so I'll just have to wait a little while till the problem gets resolved.

This commit looks to be the culprit. It replaced some prior code with an API only available in OpenGL 3.0+.

Bethrezen wrote:Didn't want to get my self confused, although it seems like the current master is completely unplayable for me right now since it crashes every time i try to end alpha 2 so I'll just have to wait a little while till the problem gets resolved.

This commit looks to be the culprit. It replaced some prior code with an API only available in OpenGL 3.0+.

Unless something changed on the build-bot, this leaves two likely causes (IMHO):

One or more of the changes in the commit is triggering an issue on Bethrezen's machine. (ex. The change in which OpenGL APIs are used - or when/how they are called - may be triggering a bug / incompatibility in Nvidia's OpenGL support (nvoglnt.dll).)

@Bethrezen: By any chance did you update or change your graphics drivers, Windows, or any other software between Aug 19 (last working nightly) and Aug 20? Also, can you download 3.2.3 final and see whether it crashes at that same point?

@Bethrezen: By any chance did you update or change your graphics drivers, Windows, or any other software between Aug 19 (last working nightly) and Aug 20? Also, can you download 3.2.3 final and see whether it crashes at that same point?

That works just fine it crashes if i alt tab to the desktop as previously reported but otherwise it works fine well baring bugs in the the mission scripts that is, as did the last master dated for the 18th so it would appear that what ever is causing the crash is as a result of the changes that where made between the 18th and 20th.

[edit]
Ok so i noticed that the master has been updated again so I'll download the new one give that a go see if the crash has been resolved.