dakomish23 wrote:Without him we are undoubtedly worse, but not bad enough to get a top 5 pick in the current East where so many are not going all in to compete now. With him, playing a lineup of him at the 4 & KP at the 5, surrounded by shooters and defenders, we could be in the mix.

Is that what we should settle for this year?

Melo needs to go chase a ring in OKC and this team needs to develop the youth / trade for prospects, assets and shorter contracts.

2019-20 is when we should be looking at making the playoffs again at the earliest.

Without Melo we are top 5.People overlook all of his positives that he does bring to focus on the negatives though, so it is hard to believe.

You know that's not how I view Melo.

I just think ATL BKN ORL PHX LAL PHI SAC could all be worse. A lot of teams are trying to get into the top of the 2018 draft. Did Bagley reclassify yet?

We have some vets who will help us pull out a game or two. KP will take another step in his progression. WHG will be better. Frank should give us some much needed perimeter D. THJ will get hot some games.

We're not bottom of the barrel abysmal sans Melo. 25 wins might get you the 8th pick this year

Not talking about you.

However, we are underestimating other teams because we don't watch them on a regular basis.

ATL will be worse, but they won't be as bad as some think. BK got better. Orlando got better. PHX got better. So on and so on.

KP isn't the only young player looking to take a step forward and Frank isn't the only rookie looking to make an impact.

HarthorneWingo wrote:If he's any relation to TKF, then I'll put him on ignore too. Just because.

1 no I'm not related 2 he was a great poster who is missed, funny you still think of him years after he left

I'm happy to join the ignore list of posters who are not delusionnally hoping for play-offs, if not predicting, despite no major improvement on the roster and Melo remaining.

The Knicks missed the playoffs four straight seasons, and that was due to being a bottom 5 team in defensive rating each year. They didn't fix the roster in the offseason to fix the defense. Frank is the smartest kid around but will need time to adjust and won't instantly guard the elite PGs of the NBA, surrounded by teammates who can miss assignements or switches. Our defense on the wings will be IQ atrocious again with the likes of Melo & Hardaway Jr commanding minutes together.

"A great poster who IS MISSED"? LOL. By who? You?

Do you know why he's not around anymore?

And one more thing: F*ck TKF

You need to learn how to express your feelings more clearly. How do you really feel about him?

I never had the dubious pleasure of knowing TKF, but he's been mentioned quite a few times here on this board. Until today, I never heard anyone say anything nice about that fellow.

No. Since 2011, Ramon Sessions hasn't started at PG for more than 20 games. SG Tim Hardaway Jr, guaranteed $50M + player option, started just 30 games last season. Knicks' best individual defender Courtney Lee will be coming off the bench. The second best individual defender is a rookie, coming off the bench. Hernangomez will be starting at Center due to Noah's suspension. He'll pick up terrible fouls if KP can't give him help. Melo being Melo. Then there's Weeds Beasley who pretty much was the signal that yes, the Knicks are desperately trying to make the playoffs.

This team can't make the next step because it has a coaching staff not known for teaching defense.

However the Knicks will do well enough in messing up their chances at a game changer from Real Madrid.

Dr. Detfink wrote:No. Since 2011, Ramon Sessions hasn't started at PG for more than 20 games. SG Tim Hardaway Jr, guaranteed $50M + player option, started just 30 games last season. Knicks' best individual defender Courtney Lee will be coming off the bench. The second best individual defender is a rookie, coming off the bench. Hernangomez will be starting at Center due to Noah's suspension. He'll pick up terrible fouls if KP can't give him help. Melo being Melo. Then there's Weeds Beasley who pretty much was the signal that yes, the Knicks are desperately trying to make the playoffs.

This team can't make the next step because it has a coaching staff not known for teaching defense.

However the Knicks will do well enough in messing up their chances at a game changer from Real Madrid.

It's also going to rain every day we play this season, and all the food at the concessions in MSG will be spoiled.

FKF wrote:1 no I'm not related 2 he was a great poster who is missed, funny you still think of him years after he left

I'm happy to join the ignore list of posters who are not delusionnally hoping for play-offs, if not predicting, despite no major improvement on the roster and Melo remaining.

The Knicks missed the playoffs four straight seasons, and that was due to being a bottom 5 team in defensive rating each year. They didn't fix the roster in the offseason to fix the defense. Frank is the smartest kid around but will need time to adjust and won't instantly guard the elite PGs of the NBA, surrounded by teammates who can miss assignements or switches. Our defense on the wings will be IQ atrocious again with the likes of Melo & Hardaway Jr commanding minutes together.

"A great poster who IS MISSED"? LOL. By who? You?

Do you know why he's not around anymore?

And one more thing: F*ck TKF

You need to learn how to express your feelings more clearly. How do you really feel about him?

I never had the dubious pleasure of knowing TKF, but he's been mentioned quite a few times here on this board. Until today, I never heard anyone say anything nice about that fellow.

AllanHoustonFan wrote:This team is buns with or without Melo. What makes you think a 33 year old Melo can carry this team to the playoffs that is arguably worse than last years squad? I don't care how weak the East is - the Knicks should only focus on developing our young players and drafting Doncic/Porter Jr (hopefully).

how are we worse than last year? We've improved the point guard position & the 2 guard spot (even if none of them turn into stars). Our Euro Rooks have another year under their belt which certainly won't hurt, Kristaps looks ready to take a step further in his development. We got rid of Rose who was a detriment as well as Jennings who was one as well, how are we worse?

AllanHoustonFan wrote:This team is buns with or without Melo. What makes you think a 33 year old Melo can carry this team to the playoffs that is arguably worse than last years squad? I don't care how weak the East is - the Knicks should only focus on developing our young players and drafting Doncic/Porter Jr (hopefully).

how are we worse than last year? We've improved the point guard position & the 2 guard spot. Our Euro Rooks have another year under their belt which certainly won't hurt, Kristaps looks ready to take a step further in his development....how are we worse.

This is the exciting and fun part of watching basketball. Despite all we know and all the stats, we really won't know how this works out for us until real NBA games are played. What a shock!

Another factor is that Hornacek is no longer being told how to coach by Phil. Either he's going to do his best to teach D and install an actual offense, or we'll fall on our faces again and hope that Blatt is interested in the position. If worse comes to worst, I believe a group of us from this board could do a better job coaching than we've seen in the past few years.

FKF wrote:1 no I'm not related 2 he was a great poster who is missed, funny you still think of him years after he left

I'm happy to join the ignore list of posters who are not delusionnally hoping for play-offs, if not predicting, despite no major improvement on the roster and Melo remaining.

The Knicks missed the playoffs four straight seasons, and that was due to being a bottom 5 team in defensive rating each year. They didn't fix the roster in the offseason to fix the defense. Frank is the smartest kid around but will need time to adjust and won't instantly guard the elite PGs of the NBA, surrounded by teammates who can miss assignements or switches. Our defense on the wings will be IQ atrocious again with the likes of Melo & Hardaway Jr commanding minutes together.

"A great poster who IS MISSED"? LOL. By who? You?

Do you know why he's not around anymore?

And one more thing: F*ck TKF

You need to learn how to express your feelings more clearly. How do you really feel about him?

I never had the dubious pleasure of knowing TKF, but he's been mentioned quite a few times here on this board. Until today, I never heard anyone say anything nice about that fellow.

I'm working on it with my therapist.

He was a very polarizing mod. I will say that his Keys to the Game were excellent most of the time and I told him as much. But then he went off the deep end over Gallinari. He done lost his damn mind over a rooster.

HarthorneWingo wrote:"A great poster who IS MISSED"? LOL. By who? You?

Do you know why he's not around anymore?

And one more thing: F*ck TKF

You need to learn how to express your feelings more clearly. How do you really feel about him?

I never had the dubious pleasure of knowing TKF, but he's been mentioned quite a few times here on this board. Until today, I never heard anyone say anything nice about that fellow.

I'm working on it with my therapist.

He was a very polarizing mod. I will say that his Keys to the Game were excellent most of the time and I told him as much. But then he went off the deep end over Gallinari. He done lost his damn mind over a rooster.

OK, that's an enlightened approach to dealing with things. It may come in helpful in dealing with other polarizing people.

But what you say about TKF is actually very sad, Wingo. There seems to be an epidemic of people losing their minds lately. I worry it could get worse as the season opener approaches and the stress level on fans increases.

Dr. Detfink wrote:No. Since 2011, Ramon Sessions hasn't started at PG for more than 20 games. SG Tim Hardaway Jr, guaranteed $50M + player option, started just 30 games last season. Knicks' best individual defender Courtney Lee will be coming off the bench. The second best individual defender is a rookie, coming off the bench. Hernangomez will be starting at Center due to Noah's suspension. He'll pick up terrible fouls if KP can't give him help. Melo being Melo. Then there's Weeds Beasley who pretty much was the signal that yes, the Knicks are desperately trying to make the playoffs.

This team can't make the next step because it has a coaching staff not known for teaching defense.

However the Knicks will do well enough in messing up their chances at a game changer from Real Madrid.

How does signing Beasley mean they are desperately trying to make playoffs? He's a journeymen who was close to signing with a Chinese team.

Dr. Detfink wrote:No. Since 2011, Ramon Sessions hasn't started at PG for more than 20 games. SG Tim Hardaway Jr, guaranteed $50M + player option, started just 30 games last season. Knicks' best individual defender Courtney Lee will be coming off the bench. The second best individual defender is a rookie, coming off the bench. Hernangomez will be starting at Center due to Noah's suspension. He'll pick up terrible fouls if KP can't give him help. Melo being Melo. Then there's Weeds Beasley who pretty much was the signal that yes, the Knicks are desperately trying to make the playoffs.

This team can't make the next step because it has a coaching staff not known for teaching defense.

However the Knicks will do well enough in messing up their chances at a game changer from Real Madrid.

I hope they're not gunning for the playoffs. But either way, I hope this is the starting lineup based on the current roster:

FrankTHJLeeMeloKP

I see very little value in not starting Frank or not playing KP at C

Dkillanyk4lyf wrote:Melo is the reason why we are in the mess we are in now. Acquiring him was the biggest mistake in knicks history.

Dr. Detfink wrote:No. Since 2011, Ramon Sessions hasn't started at PG for more than 20 games. SG Tim Hardaway Jr, guaranteed $50M + player option, started just 30 games last season. Knicks' best individual defender Courtney Lee will be coming off the bench. The second best individual defender is a rookie, coming off the bench. Hernangomez will be starting at Center due to Noah's suspension. He'll pick up terrible fouls if KP can't give him help. Melo being Melo. Then there's Weeds Beasley who pretty much was the signal that yes, the Knicks are desperately trying to make the playoffs.

This team can't make the next step because it has a coaching staff not known for teaching defense.

However the Knicks will do well enough in messing up their chances at a game changer from Real Madrid.

How does signing Beasley mean they are desperately trying to make playoffs? He's a journeymen who was close to signing with a Chinese team.

Well, we did commit one whole vet minimum salary on the guy...money that could have been better spent on another journeyman player instead.

That level of financial commitment shows how much we expect of him this year (something like "minimum").

THJ, Frank, and Sessions are an improvement over Rose. And then KP and Willy should be better than last year. But we're still a sub .500 team because of our defense. Getting rid of Phil and the Triangle won't change that side of the ball, and from every indication, the defense will still be handled by Horny's buddy Rambis.

HarthorneWingo wrote:"A great poster who IS MISSED"? LOL. By who? You?

Do you know why he's not around anymore?

And one more thing: F*ck TKF

You need to learn how to express your feelings more clearly. How do you really feel about him?

I never had the dubious pleasure of knowing TKF, but he's been mentioned quite a few times here on this board. Until today, I never heard anyone say anything nice about that fellow.

I'm working on it with my therapist.

He was a very polarizing mod. I will say that his Keys to the Game were excellent most of the time and I told him as much. But then he went off the deep end over Gallinari. He done lost his damn mind over a rooster.

I actually think a lot of us miss him. Before he totally lost it, he was one of the best posters on here. I didn't always agree with him, but he belongs in the RGM Knicks HOF.

If I'm not mistaken, I think he also predicted that the Melo situation would end just like the Marbury one. And now here we are, with some posters regularly suggesting we send Melo home and treat him as a malcontent.

even without him, our pups are going to play hard. i don't think they lose as much as people think.

If we win 37 games, make the 7-10th seed while playing without vets, that means we may actually have some young prospects we can truly build with. I would be less upset at not getting a top 5 pick. If we are getting those seeds with Melo and Lee then our plan not a solid plan at all. I was not really in favor of the Timmy signing but it is what it is. However signing guys like Beasley to me was a confusing.