People who paid £3 to become Labour Party supporters were told that if they wanted a vote in the coming leadership, they would have to pay an extra £25 to become full members.

The above BBC report, posted tonight, informs us that 183,541 supporters have paid the required £25 in the last 48 hours, which by my calculation means that in the past two days the Labour Partry has become richer by £4,588,525.

How many will back friend of the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah Jeremy Corbyn?

How many will back ex-BBC journalist, ex-Pfizer PR man, and the man who once dialled 999 to get a quick news story from the police...Owen ('Oily') Smith?

More to the point, who cares?

To think this whole Labour Party calamity has been the product of Ed Miliband's insane jealousy of his elder brother, David, and the stupidity of all those who voted for him

____________________

"Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 - "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"

People who paid £3 to become Labour Party supporters were told that if they wanted a vote in the coming leadership, they would have to pay an extra £25 to become full members.

The above BBC report, posted tonight, informs us that 183,541 supporters have paid the required £25 in the last 48 hours, which by my calculation means that in the past two days the Labour Partry has become richer by £4,588,525.

How many will back friend of the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah Jeremy Corbyn?

How many will back ex-BBC journalist, ex-Pfizer PR man, and the man who once dialled 999 to get a quick news story from the police...Owen ('Oily') Smith?

More to the point, who cares?

To think this whole Labour Party calamity has been the product of Ed Miliband's insane jealousy of his elder brother, David, and the stupidity of all those who voted for him

The Labour Party is finished, but it will be interesting to know who the new members will vote for. Corbyn or Smith, or will the votes be evenly split?

Been a long time lurker, short time member, about three posts in total, but it seems lately that this forum has transformed itself into a political blog with very little in the past few weeks about Madeleine at all, just to say I used to admire TB greatly for all the work he's done and sacrifices hes made and that will never change, i will always admire him for that and defend him --- but --- this used to be the best place to go for intelligent debate and research on what happened that week, up until lately and now it seems to be all political opinions and nothingbut, so sadly goodbye, no great loss ,I know most of you will say and rightly so probably but what do you want this forum to be?? about the subject matter or a daily op ed --- echo chamber ---?? to paraphrase the mods. "Back on Topic"--.

@justabout wrote:dear all,been a long time lurker,short time member,about three posts in total,but it seems lately that this forum has transformed itself into a political blog with very little in the past few weeks about madeleine at all,just to say I used to admire TB greatly for all the work he,s done and sacrifices hes made and that will never change,i will always admire him for that and defend him---but--this used to be the best place to go for intelligent debate and research on what happened that week,up until lately and now it seems to be all political opinions and nothing but,so sadly goodbye,no great loss I know most of you will say and rightly so probably but what do you want this forum to be?? about the subject matter or a daily op ed----echo chamber--??to para phrase the mods."back on topic"--.

Hang on in there - tis the silly season when most folk are off somewhere exotic enjoying their annual holiday. If your interest is confined to the case of Madeleine McCann, you could of course regenerate a topic, I for one would welcome it!

Never know, apres-hols could see the long awaited 'Untold Story of Madeleine McCann' or closure of Operation Grange or renewed commitment by the former Home Secretary, now Prime Minister.

Nothing is certain until justice is served!

____________________“ The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx

@justabout wrote:dear all,been a long time lurker,short time member,about three posts in total,but it seems lately that this forum has transformed itself into a political blog with very little in the past few weeks about madeleine at all,just to say I used to admire TB greatly for all the work he,s done and sacrifices hes made and that will never change,i will always admire him for that and defend him---but--this used to be the best place to go for intelligent debate and research on what happened that week,up until lately and now it seems to be all political opinions and nothing but,so sadly goodbye,no great loss I know most of you will say and rightly so probably but what do you want this forum to be?? about the subject matter or a daily op ed----echo chamber--??to para phrase the mods."back on topic"--.

There are many other topics on this forum that aren't about Madeleine (but still about justice) - we have a whole forum about Lee Balkwell, Stuart Lubbock, Ben Needham, Haut de la Garenne, for example. We also discuss other news topics of public interest such as Oscar Pistorius, Hillsborough, missing children, child abuse, celebrity paedophiles, etc etc.

As Verdi quite rightly says, there is nothing much going on with the Madeleine case in the news at the moment but that doesn't mean projects that seek justice for Madeleine are not going on in the background. We are waiting for Gonçalo Amaral's new book to be completed; we are waiting for the outcome of the Appeal of the 'damages' trial and what Gonçalo intends to do next; we are also waiting for Richard D. Hall's new Madeleine film and, of course, Sonia Poulton's 'The Untold Story of Madeleine McCann'. None of these projects can be accomplished with the click of fingers. We have to wait patiently, and while we're waiting patiently we discuss other things.

As Verdi suggests, why not regenerate a topic that you would like to see debated or start a new one instead of moaning and saying goodbye?

What do we want this forum to be? We want it to be a forum that leads the way (CMOMM has now had more than 85.6 million views*) to getting the truth out there; a community where people are interested in what happened to Madeleine McCann; who contribute to the research or come here to read; who come here to copy posts and take them back to other communities such as facebooks groups or twitter or blogs to discuss it amongst their own group of friends. Anything, in fact, that helps spread the word is a good thing. Just because there is a lull during the holiday season doesn't mean we're not still doing our bit.

And the Politics forum is important to the ongoing Madeleine case with the appointment of Theresa May as the new Prime Minister and I'm sure Tony will be communicating with her (in fact he already has with the new FOI's for starters). It's taken nine years for us to get here, and we've all covered a lot of ground, and we'll still be here for however long it takes.

This is a very well run forum and I have learned a lot from some very well informed posters not just about Missing Maddie.

There are several posters who are very well educated and have a very good grasp of the political world, healthy living and even gardening tips. I have enjoyed their posts and look forward to a lot more of them.

Thanks to all who read and post and keep this forum alive. Excellent stuff.

____________________Judge Judy to shifty witnesses - LOOK AT ME - Um is not an answer.

If I forget to add it to a post everything is In My Opinion and I don't know anything for sure.

This is a very well run forum and I have learned a lot from some very well informed posters not just about Missing Maddie.

There are several posters who are very well educated and have a very good grasp of the political world, healthy living and even gardening tips. I have enjoyed their posts and look forward to a lot more of them.

Thanks to all who read and post and keep this forum alive. Excellent stuff.

This is a very well run forum and I have learned a lot from some very well informed posters not just about Missing Maddie.

There are several posters who are very well educated and have a very good grasp of the political world, healthy living and even gardening tips. I have enjoyed their posts and look forward to a lot more of them.

Thanks to all who read and post and keep this forum alive. Excellent stuff.

Very well said plebgate, nothing much happening on the maddie case at the mo but love this Politics thread and all the other interesting topics that keep us all up to date .Plenty to choose from

Been a long time lurker, short time member, about three posts in total, but it seems lately that this forum has transformed itself into a political blog with very little in the past few weeks about Madeleine at all, just to say I used to admire TB greatly for all the work he's done and sacrifices hes made and that will never change, i will always admire him for that and defend him --- but --- this used to be the best place to go for intelligent debate and research on what happened that week, up until lately and now it seems to be all political opinions and nothingbut, so sadly goodbye, no great loss ,I know most of you will say and rightly so probably but what do you want this forum to be?? about the subject matter or a daily op ed --- echo chamber ---?? to paraphrase the mods. "Back on Topic"--.

@ justaboutThank you for your kind comments, but…

Whilst acknowledging that there have been a lot of political topics raised in the past two months, the forum has most certainly at the same time been continuing its work of researching and discussing the reported disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

I have done a quick review of what Madeleine McCann topics have been discussed since the Brexit vote on 23 June. Here are just some of them:

Topics actively discussed in the ‘Madeleine – Latest News’ section:

1 The impact on the Madeleine McCann case of Theresa May becoming Prime Minister

2 New information about Brian Kennedy’s connections with the McAlpines

3 Why the McCanns had the book 'The Interpretation of Murder' on holiday

4 What the McCanns might find out about the case on the internet (‘The grotesque moment I found out Ian Huntley is my real father’ thread)

5 Freud Communications and the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann

6 Similar disappearances -the case of 3-year-old DeOrr Kunz

7 McCann-supporter proposes online debate with McCann-sceptics

8 Sergey Malinka’s car: Why was it torched and what was written on it?

9 The search for Madeleine in Portugal

10 German Madeleine McCann found 15 years after her disappearance

11 Why McCann-supporter Sir Richard Branson met Theresa May last week to discuss his wish for a second referendum on the E.U.

Eddie and Keela found the scent of death on the clothes of one of the Tapas 7

Those incredibly 'unreliable' DOGS...again!

PLUS: Two more Freedom of Information Act questions were sent to the Home Office and the Metropolitan Police aboput Operation Grange - posted on the forum only yesterday

PLUS: Other Madeleine McCann topics discussed in other sections of the forum which I've run out of time to collate

===============================================

(I agree that there has been a lot of political discussion, and I plead 'guilty' to my own role in that, BUT - according to most political commentators, the Brexit vote on 23 June was the most significant moment in our nation's history since the end of World War II, since then we have had the sudden resignation of the Prime Minister, a lively contest for the leadership of the Conservative Party, the selection of a new Prime Minister, the near-collapse of the Labour Party as an effective force on British politics, PLUS the Chilcot report and the proof that former Prime Minister Tony Blair took us into a disastrous war by lying to us - why, these developments even woke up our forum-owner who suddenly realised that all this stuff was really rather interesting, and important)

____________________

"Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 - "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"

@Tony Bennett wrote:(I agree that there has been a lot of political discussion, and I plead 'guilty' to my own role in that, BUT - according to most political commentators, the Brexit vote on 23 June was the most significant moment in our nation's history since the end of World War II, since then we have had the sudden resignation of the Prime Minister, a lively contest for the leadership of the Conservative Party, the selection of a new Prime Minister, the near-collapse of the Labour Party as an effective force on British politics, PLUS the Chilcot report and the proof that former Prime Minister Tony Blair took us into a disastrous war by lying to us - why, these developments even woke up our forum-owner who suddenly realised that all this stuff was really rather interesting, and important)

Yep, it has to be said I was never interested in politics until recently and now I'm hooked!

Labour's current problems go back further than Ed Milliband, they go back to the formation of New Labour in the latter 1990's after John Smith's death when Blair took over. Blairs vision was, if you can't beat them... become them.The movement from the left wing to become a centre party was successful for Blair, but 20 years on it has left the party without an identity. Many of the MP's who joined since 1997 see Labour as a slightly left of Conservative party, occupying almost the same ground on many issues.

The current leader is a throwback to those days spent in exile, a left wing politician who many of the current crop of Labour MP's see as being a dinosaur. Whoever ends up as Labour leader will have problems, because Labour under Corbyn is unelectable, and Labour under one of the other MP's will be not far away from the Conservative viewpoint. Why do we need two major parties who agree on everything? that's not being in opposition, that's being a tribute band.

Owen Smith is the only challenger to Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, but how many know who Owen Smith is? Owen Smith is the son of Professor Dai Smith. Dai Smith is a close friend of Hywel Francis (another professor). Hywel Francis was once a member of the British Communist Party. He later became MP for Aberavon. Hywel Francis and Dia Smith wrote the book The Fed. Another close friend of Hywel Francis and Dai Smith is Kim Howells. Kim Howells, I believe, was also a member of the British Communist Party. These people are all close friends to the Kinnocks. It was Neil Kinnock has been credited with getting Peter Hain elected to the safe Labour seat for Neath. Before becoming a Labour politician, Peter Hain was a member of the Liberal Party.

As we know, Hywel Francis stepped down as MP in the last general election, and surprise, surprise, who became MP for Aberavon. Well, it's no secret, is it? Stephen Kinnock, of course. And the connections between this close knit clique is never-ending. Now we are on the threshold of having Owen Smith, son of Dai Smith, as leader for the Labour Party. You can't make this up, can you?

@sallypelt wrote:Owen Smith is the only challenger to Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, but how many know who Owen Smith is? Owen Smith is the son of Professor Dai Smith. Dai Smith is a close friend of Hywel Francis (another professor). Hywel Francis was once a member of the British Communist Party. He later became MP for Aberavon. Hywel Francis and Dia Smith wrote the book The Fed. Another close friend of Hywel Francis and Dai Smith is Kim Howells. Kim Howells, I believe, was also a member of the British Communist Party. These people are all close friends to the Kinnocks. It was Neil Kinnock has been credited with getting Peter Hain elected to the safe Labour seat for Neath. Before becoming a Labour politician, Peter Hain was a member of the Liberal Party.

As we know, Hywel Francis stepped down as MP in the last elections, and surprise, surprise, who became MP for Aberavon. Well, it's no secret, is it? Stephen Kinnock, of course. And the connections between this close knit clique is never-ending. Now we are on the threshold of having Owen Smith, son of Dai Smith, as leader for the Labour Party. You can't make this up, can you?

No, you can't make it up Sallypelt. It's a disgrace to Welsh people never mind the rest of the UK.

@JRP wrote:Labour's current problems go back further than Ed Miliband, they go back to the formation of New Labour in the latter 1990's after John Smith's death when Blair took over. Blairs vision was, if you can't beat them... become them.

I think we also have to factor in structural changes in society.

Margaret Thatcher sussed this in 1979 when she realised that whole swathes of the 'working class' were no longer Labour Party fodder but were aspirational and upwardly mobile. So she promised them they could buv their Council houses at a large discount. And won the General Election.

Nowadays many working people will be able to buy their own houses, own nice cars, go abroad for their holidays, afford SKY TV etc. etc., far beyond the dreams of most people 40 to 50 years ago.

Cobryn and his supporters represent the truly disadvantaged in society, which is no bad thing, except that you must also have at least a good proprotion of the 'middle ground' with you to get elected.

I am not sure if it is worth Labour spending any money on this leadership election.

I have just checked the odds the bookies are offering:

Corbyn is at 6-1 or 7-1 ON

...while Smith is about 4-1 against.

Seems about right.

The Labour Party stalemate, or paralysis might better term, is set to continue

____________________

"Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 - "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"

@JRP wrote:Labour's current problems go back further than Ed Miliband, they go back to the formation of New Labour in the latter 1990's after John Smith's death when Blair took over. Blairs vision was, if you can't beat them... become them.

I think we also have to factor in structural changes in society.

Margaret Thatcher sussed this in 1979 when she realised that whole swathes of the 'working class' were no longer Labour Party fodder but were aspirational and upwardly mobile. So she promised them they could buv their Council houses at a large discount. And won the General Election.

Nowadays many working people will be able to buy their own houses, own nice cars, go abroad for their holidays, afford SKY TV etc. etc., far beyond the dreams of most people 40 to 50 years ago.

Cobryn and his supporters represent the truly disadvantaged in society, which is no bad thing, except that you must also have at least a good proprotion of the 'middle ground' with you to get elected.

I am not sure if it is worth Labour spending any money on this leadership election.

I have just checked the odds the bookies are offering:

Corbyn is at 6-1 or 7-1 ON

...while Smith is about 4-1 against.

Seems about right.

The Labour Party stalemate, or paralysis might better term, is set to continue

And another bit of "trivia" Anthony Charles Lynton Blair was the son of a CONSERVATIVE father. The only time in his life, that Leo Blair voted Labour, was when his son stood as a Labour candidate.

@JRP wrote:Labour's current problems go back further than Ed Miliband, they go back to the formation of New Labour in the latter 1990's after John Smith's death when Blair took over. Blairs vision was, if you can't beat them... become them.

I think we also have to factor in structural changes in society.

Margaret Thatcher sussed this in 1979 when she realised that whole swathes of the 'working class' were no longer Labour Party fodder but were aspirational and upwardly mobile. So she promised them they could buv their Council houses at a large discount. And won the General Election.

Nowadays many working people will be able to buy their own houses, own nice cars, go abroad for their holidays, afford SKY TV etc. etc., far beyond the dreams of most people 40 to 50 years ago.

Cobryn and his supporters represent the truly disadvantaged in society, which is no bad thing, except that you must also have at least a good proprotion of the 'middle ground' with you to get elected.

I am not sure if it is worth Labour spending any money on this leadership election.

I have just checked the odds the bookies are offering:

Corbyn is at 6-1 or 7-1 ON

...while Smith is about 4-1 against.

Seems about right.

The Labour Party stalemate, or paralysis might better term, is set to continue

I think you need to go a few years back from 1979 and see how militant the UK workforce was and to experience weeks and weeks (I lived in Wales) of power outage and no school as a result of general strikes. To see militant workers down tools for just about any old reason in car manufacturing plants in UK was egged on by unions who thrived on a militant attitude and their leaders capitulated and took fat pensions from the union dues.

Thatcher crushed the unions. It was necessary at the time. Sadly, she went on to cause as much mayhem by selling off the country's silver to the wealthy.

Owen Smith featured in a debate in 2015 with candidates from the Conservative, Liberal and UKIP parties.

In this fascinating clip, John Rees-Evans, the UKIP candidate, puts his finger on some major issues which affect many of us. He tackles the malign influence of powerful international companies, and how a U.S.-E.U. alliance has been supporting them.

...even though Rees-Evans may not be as polished a speaker as the others. He briefly mentions TTIP at the end, which all intelligent people recognise is a pretty naked attempt to give even more power to these 'multinational' corporations

____________________

"Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 - "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"

@JRP wrote:Labour's current problems go back further than Ed Miliband, they go back to the formation of New Labour in the latter 1990's after John Smith's death when Blair took over. Blairs vision was, if you can't beat them... become them.

I think we also have to factor in structural changes in society.

Margaret Thatcher sussed this in 1979 when she realised that whole swathes of the 'working class' were no longer Labour Party fodder but were aspirational and upwardly mobile. So she promised them they could buv their Council houses at a large discount. And won the General Election.

Nowadays many working people will be able to buy their own houses, own nice cars, go abroad for their holidays, afford SKY TV etc. etc., far beyond the dreams of most people 40 to 50 years ago.

Cobryn and his supporters represent the truly disadvantaged in society, which is no bad thing, except that you must also have at least a good proprotion of the 'middle ground' with you to get elected.

I am not sure if it is worth Labour spending any money on this leadership election.

I have just checked the odds the bookies are offering:

Corbyn is at 6-1 or 7-1 ON

...while Smith is about 4-1 against.

Seems about right.

The Labour Party stalemate, or paralysis might better term, is set to continue

I think you need to go a few years back from 1979 and see how militant the UK workforce was and to experience weeks and weeks (I lived in Wales) of power outage and no school as a result of general strikes. To see militant workers down tools for just about any old reason in car manufacturing plants in UK was egged on by unions who thrived on a militant attitude and their leaders capitulated and took fat pensions from the union dues.

Thatcher crushed the unions. It was necessary at the time. Sadly, she went on to cause as much mayhem by selling off the country's silver to the wealthy.

Aquila, I am in TOTAL agreement with you. I remember the shop stewards, who had never before, in their lives, had ever held a position of power, but so many of them were given these positions on the factory floor, and they didn't know how to handle it. They would call a wildcat strike at the drop of the hat. As you say, Maggie was needed, and while she's hated in many parts of Wales, for closing the mines, things couldn't have gone on as they did. Unfortunately, Maggie outstayed her welcome, and power went to her head.

The Labour Party no longer knows who it represents. Corbyn and McDonnell, and possibly one or two more, see it as a champion of the poorest in the land, those unfortunate enough to frequent foodbanks or unable to work. The majority of the MP's however see themselves as friends of the well heeled, they socialize in the same circles as their Conservative counterparts. There is a huge conflict of interests in the party, the minority of the left who are in command, and the majority on the right who wonder where Blair has gone... Jail hopefully!

Strangely there are people who vote Labour no matter what, they voted Wilson, Callaghan, Foot, Kinnock, Blair, Brown and never noticed the core values under Blair had shifted radically to the right. Blair in my opinion jumped ship and became a Conservative, a little less "selly" than Thatcher perhaps, but Brown was a big fan.If you are going to represent the poor. then logically, you want them to stay poor, otherwise you'll run out of people who will vote for you. A lesson in, it's not what you do for people, it's what you promise to do for them which matters.

There are so many great posts and opinions on this political forum. I'm learning all the time - and whilst I'm doing that I'm not changing my mind about my Leave vote as it was the only logical and patriotic thing to do for our nation and our children.

Just look what this vote did! it brought out the weakness of individuals and political parties.

Jeepers, Hatton rejoined the Labour Party - who wants to ever see the likes of him again?

The Labour Party needs to kick itself up its own backside - and please get that woman Diane Abbott off my telly - she's going for the black vote and causing more dissent than you could shake a stick at. Shame on her. Who needs that nonsense in Britain?

@aquila wrote:The Labour Party needs to kick itself up its own backside - and please get that woman Diane Abbott off my telly - she's going for the black vote and causing more dissent than you could shake a stick at. Shame on her.

Corbyn and Abbott were once lovers. They famously went on a holiday together by motor-bike to Germany in 1978. Where in Germany? - of course, to the People's Democratic Republik of East Germany - where else?

No doubt both were thrilled to admire the effects of 30 years of Stalinist rule of East Germany under Soviet puppet Erich Hoenecker, whose secret police, the notorious Stasi, were reputed to be the biggest spy organisation in the world. This was the state, let it be remembered, that - at the very time Corbyn and Abbott were there - would shoot dead people trying to run or swim from East Berlin to the free West.

The Daily Telegraph recently published extracts from the aptly-named biography of Corbyn: Comrade Corbyn.

...was an incident where Corbyn, using a pretext, invited five of his leafleting friends back to his flat, in order to prove his 'right-on' credentials. There, much to his surprise, they found a naked Diane Abbott in Corbyn's bed (though he was married at the time).

Poor old Abbott had to hurriedly cover her assets with a duvet.

Bless!

--------------

Corbyn and Abbott: 1978

38 years later: Corbyn and Abbott, 2016

____________________

"Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 - "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"

So again I ask, who are these people that have been driven towards food banks and other charitable means to survive as a result of government austerity measures?

I've seen many a moan about benefits being cut causing destitution within a particular sector of society but I've yet to see a reasonable argument as to why the public purse should finance any persons lifestyle choices. I don't knock anyone for choosing a particular lifestyle but I do object very strongly when I'm expected to pay for their choice. For example - an individual or couple, decide on a large family like 6 + kids, if that's what they want then it's okay by me but I do expect them to be able to finance that decision themselves before going headlong into realising their dreams. As I've seen uproar about the effects on state pension entitlement, in which respect I'm astounded that anyone can actually understand government proposals until they see their pay cheque.

The welfare state was an excellent vision to help repair the devastation left by WW2 but without rigid control it was open to abuse and has given the public a grossly exaggerated sense of entitlement.

So again I ask, who/where are these 21st century examples of post-war Britain, reduced to relying on charity to survive..

I've thankfully never witnessed anything like this - have you?

____________________“ The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx

For the most part, politicians are cut from the same cloth. Their political ideals are not formed by personal hardship but how they apply their former education and the inherent radicalism that educational establishments harbour.

Not surprising they cross the party line from time to time, or become neutralised by peer influence. It's all a game - and the electorate are the pawns.

____________________“ The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx

@aquila wrote:There are so many great posts and opinions on this political forum. I'm learning all the time - and whilst I'm doing that I'm not changing my mind about my Leave vote as it was the only logical and patriotic thing to do for our nation and our children.

Just look what this vote did! it brought out the weakness of individuals and political parties.

Jeepers, Hatton rejoined the Labour Party - who wants to ever see the likes of him again?

The Labour Party needs to kick itself up its own backside - and please get that woman Diane Abbott off my telly - she's going for the black vote and causing more dissent than you could shake a stick at. Shame on her. Who needs that nonsense in Britain?