First of all, what are most vaccines for in Australia? Flu? Chicken pox? Please tell how a cold is more dangerous than taking a vaccine.

Vaccines are simply a way for drug companies to make more money. In the United States, the government exempts these drug companies from liability for illness and death resulting from vaccines. Vaccines mean more money for everyone who already has a lot of money. I do support big business, but not when they're injecting people with crap just for a buck.

Basically, vaccines probably don't help stop the spread of disease. There are certainly arguments on the other side, saying that vaccines do stop disease. (though we must note that most of these arguments are probably coming from drug companies) However when you put everything together, the evidence clearly shows vaccines only affect people negatively. In any case, most vaccines aren't needed whether they work or not. If you live in Africa, the use of vaccines is debatable. But in a modern, 1st or 2nd world country? No way. The health affects of having what is shown in that image injected into your bloodstream is far worse than a cold.....and injecting someone with that junk isn't going to stop them from getting a cold anyway.

I don't know what people are being vaccinated with here - you can google it if you're interested. Thanks for all the links, I'll check them out soon.

Originally Posted by JackieKessler

Ribbons, it can be frustrating to see people doing well with SAD. But as already mentioned, when everyone gets older, that's when it all starts catching up and having devastating effects. Think long term.

Originally Posted by Forever Young

Yes that is like saying that all the people you know from school who smoke are healthy, therefore how can it be said that smoking is so bad for you? That would APPEAR to be true. However it is not. The ones who continue to smoke will start showing the signs of disease at an age where they should be in excellent health. It takes time. The body is very resilient. It is always trying to keep you healthy in spite of the abuse we put it through. But it eventually starts to break down and the damage becomes permanent.

I can tell you from my experience that those who haven't taken care of themselves are most definitely on the decline now. I'm 47 so I'm talking people around my age. I know some that are in their 30's and very ill. I'm going to a funeral on Thursday for a very good friend. He was my age and died of a massive heart attack. He lived on sugar water drinks, junk food and cigarettes.

You simply can't put all kinds of junk in your body for years and years and expect to have a body that functions properly. Eventually it will not . How can eating REAL food possibly not be far better for one than eating FAKE JUNK?

Originally Posted by Omni

Ribbons,
I think you have been around on this site long enough to know what the story is with Primal vs SAD and all the pro's & cons.
The facts are that for virtually everyone there is going to be some negative effects on the SAD diet, the question remains, how much will you be affected, how low do you need to go before you decide to take a positive direction with your health?
What everyone else is doing is there business, they are placing bets on their own health, this is irrelevant to you, even your mum's choices are irrelevant, are you waiting for her to turn the corner and go primal before you commit to a healthy path. Basing your health or happiness on what others do or think is always going to lead to disaster, you already have admitted you have health issues, you know bad diet affects our entire body & mind negatively, are you waiting for someone to tell you where to place your bet so that you can avoid owning the decision.

Older people here will remember the Dirty Harry (Clint Eastwood) line:
"You've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel Lucky?, well do ya punk."Classic Movie Line #31 - YouTube

If you are feeling lucky, then go ahead, eat the wheat, oils, artificial sweetners etc., enjoy them, revel in them.
but regardless of which way it goes for you healthwise, good or bad, take ownership of the decision,
You decide and then take responsibility for it and the consequences that may arise from that decision.

I guess it does take a long time for most people to notice diet-related health problems. I also realised that a lot of people my age get headaches, acne, and get sick a lot and I wonder if a lot of that could be caused by bad foods, not just genetics. Btw Omni, I'm definitely not waiting for my mum to go primal. I'm not waiting for anything, I'm already eating primal. I'm just a little confused as to how people following CW (such as my mum) are seemingly healthy. That doesn't mean I'm doubting PB or that I have any intention of going back to eating grains and toxins.

Originally Posted by oxide

There you are, Ribbons! I had been wondering how you were doing.

I've noticed the same thing. Lots of skinny people are stuffing their faces, while lots of fat people aren't eating at all. So some of it is genetic, but it DOES all catch up.

There's a demographic issue too. At least in America, there is HUGE population of people in their early 20's -- kids of the big Baby Boomer generation. So while it looks like more people are thin and healthy, in truth more people are simply YOUNG. Gen X (35-45) are just starting to get middle-age tubby, but there aren't as many of us so it's not noticed.

Wait 25 years. These young and pretty things are all going to be inflamed and sick. In fact, when the young folks age, they are going to be even sicker than older people because they've eaten nothing but SAD. The really bad SAD foods, like dwarf hybrid wheat, high fructose corn syup, brominated flour, and GMO corn and soy, weren't used widely until 1980-1985 or so. Older people at least finished their growth phase before that crap came along. The young generations have been eating crap almost since birth.

That's a good point. I'm lucky that living in Australia we don't have much HFCS and most of our processed foods aren't corn-based like in the US but most people I know are at least a little bit health-conscious so they buy low-fat sugary yoghurt, wholegrain/multi-grain bread, margarine instead of butter, etc. and if they're really health-conscious they go vegetarian/vegan. It'll be interesting to see if their health declines faster than the adults of today.

I don't understand how nearly everyone at my school is in a normal weight range while living on sandwiches and biscuits and junk food (except a few people who just eat lettuce). My mum watches Dr Oz and other "health" shows on tv and is into conventional wisdom. She's healthy, she eats lots of wholegrains, almost zero saturated fat, and goes to the gym a few times a week (and mostly just goes on the treadmill). Everyone I know eats grains, vegetable oil, sugar, etc. and somehow I'm still fatter than most people my age. Am I missing something? Willpower? The only "advantage" I seem to have while eating primal is that I can easily skip meals and I don't have to eat as often, e.g. yesterday I ate a lot and it's now 4pm and I haven't eaten yet today because I'm still not hungry. It just seems really strange that people on this forum are so careful about avoiding certain foods (eg. wheat) that most people eat at every single meal. And if it's so important that our brains get enough saturated fat then how can everyone else's brains function on almost none? Is everyone just really well adapted to the modern diet?

Primal is a sham. Science doesn't support it and that is why everyone does fine while eating grains and some processed food...because they aren't as bad for you as people on here like to think. (But don't tell them that because they will defend their diet like a religious zealot.)

and they are going to require parents to vaccinate their children in California (it used to be that you could exempt...now it's going to be required that you get an exemption from a licensed pediatrician, after the pediatrician warns you about all the dangers of not injecting yourself with this:

They are going to require people to vaccinate children in California because kids are dying of diseases that were basically extinct in the first world for almost 100 years. I agree with it because sometimes people need to be stopped from their own dangerous stupidity.

Basically, vaccines probably don't help stop the spread of disease. There are certainly arguments on the other side, saying that vaccines do stop disease. (though we must note that most of these arguments are probably coming from drug companies) However when you put everything together, the evidence clearly shows vaccines only affect people negatively. In any case, most vaccines aren't needed whether they work or not. If you live in Africa, the use of vaccines is debatable. But in a modern, 1st or 2nd world country? No way. The health affects of having what is shown in that image injected into your bloodstream is far worse than a cold.....and injecting someone with that junk isn't going to stop them from getting a cold anyway.

The only reason you could argue that not getting your kids vaccinated is ok is because the great majority of people aren't so stupid and are vaccinated so the chance of catching polio or whooping cough is diminished because everyone else is immune. Basically, I hope your kids get whooping cough.

Primal is a sham. Science doesn't support it and that is why everyone does fine while eating grains and some processed food...because they aren't as bad for you as people on here like to think. (But don't tell them that because they will defend their diet like a religious zealot.)

Originally Posted by jimhensen

They are going to require people to vaccinate children in California because kids are dying of diseases that were basically extinct in the first world for almost 100 years. I agree with it because sometimes people need to be stopped from their own dangerous stupidity.

Originally Posted by jimhensen

The only reason you could argue that not getting your kids vaccinated is ok is because the great majority of people aren't so stupid and are vaccinated so the chance of catching polio or whooping cough is diminished because everyone else is immune. Basically, I hope your kids get whooping cough.

Why are you filled with so much venom?
Remember what goes around comes around.

Primal is a sham. Science doesn't support it and that is why everyone does fine while eating grains and some processed food...because they aren't as bad for you as people on here like to think. (But don't tell them that because they will defend their diet like a religious zealot.)

What do you mean "science doesn't support it"? Could you please be more specific? Are you just saying that processed foods aren't as bad for you as people here make them out to be, or are you suggesting that we should disregard all the info on this website that goes against CW *just coz*?

I did great with SAD without much processed foods until I had my daughter. Even then, I lost my pregnancy weight on SAD. But after I lost my weight SAD stopped working for me. I could not get full on the calorie allocations, hunger was horrid and I was regaining weight. For 3 years after losing my weight i tried a lot of different approaches; for the last year and a half they were all centered around the whole foods only.

Now, the way I see it there is two things:

1. Things that are bad for most people except selected few (they can stay skinny and not hungry eating macaroni and cheese with buttered bread and a muffin on top). They usually catch up with you as you grow older and have cumulative effect by subtly rising your appetite and making you gain weight as you age, slowly or in huge increments. In women, that weight gain is often triggered by child birth since body retains appetite levels and hormonal stuff changes drammatically. Since you are talking about school, you do not see these effects. Not yet. Wait for your 10 year reunion, or ask your mom how many girls that were stick-thin at school came back to her reunion as much heavier. Those things are processed grains (bread, pasta), bad oils, and processed sugars.

2. Things that cause acute and adverse reaction individual from a person to person. Dairy, fruit, nuts, legumes, starches, excessive fats - these sort of things. These you have to experiment with and eliminate what hurts you.

The more I experiment with my diet and fitness regimens, the more I become convinced that there is simply no 'one size fits all' prescription for ultimate state of being when you achieve that happy balance of being reasonably full, very energetic, ina good mood and not gaining weight (or losing weight).

I did great with SAD without much processed foods until I had my daughter. Even then, I lost my pregnancy weight on SAD. But after I lost my weight SAD stopped working for me. I could not get full on the calorie allocations, hunger was horrid and I was regaining weight. For 3 years after losing my weight i tried a lot of different approaches; for the last year and a half they were all centered around the whole foods only.

Now, the way I see it there is two things:

1. Things that are bad for most people except selected few (they can stay skinny and not hungry eating macaroni and cheese with buttered bread and a muffin on top). They usually catch up with you as you grow older and have cumulative effect by subtly rising your appetite and making you gain weight as you age, slowly or in huge increments. In women, that weight gain is often triggered by child birth since body retains appetite levels and hormonal stuff changes drammatically. Since you are talking about school, you do not see these effects. Not yet. Wait for your 10 year reunion, or ask your mom how many girls that were stick-thin at school came back to her reunion as much heavier. Those things are processed grains (bread, pasta), bad oils, and processed sugars.

2. Things that cause acute and adverse reaction individual from a person to person. Dairy, fruit, nuts, legumes, starches, excessive fats - these sort of things. These you have to experiment with and eliminate what hurts you.

The more I experiment with my diet and fitness regimens, the more I become convinced that there is simply no 'one size fits all' prescription for ultimate state of being when you achieve that happy balance of being reasonably full, very energetic, ina good mood and not gaining weight (or losing weight).

I think this is pretty close to the mark. Individual tolerances to different foods seem to vary. Wheat and related grains, Soy, Dairy, and Nuts all cause problems for certain portions of the population, though the majority tolerate them to some degree. The other piece is that reactions vary by degrees. Some people can enter anaphylactic shock from eating half a peanut. Others can eat a certain food, and the worst reaction they'll get are some sores on their mouth, or some redness where it touches their skin.

The biggest thing for me is that my digestion is a lot better without an excess of "healthy whole grains". That, and grain products aren't satiating and are mostly empty calories - meaning that unless I'm being super-active and needing to take in a ton of calories, I'm happier on a more satiating diet that relies more on vegetables as carbohydrate sources.

I did great with SAD without much processed foods until I had my daughter. Even then, I lost my pregnancy weight on SAD. But after I lost my weight SAD stopped working for me. I could not get full on the calorie allocations, hunger was horrid and I was regaining weight. For 3 years after losing my weight i tried a lot of different approaches; for the last year and a half they were all centered around the whole foods only.

Now, the way I see it there is two things:

1. Things that are bad for most people except selected few (they can stay skinny and not hungry eating macaroni and cheese with buttered bread and a muffin on top). They usually catch up with you as you grow older and have cumulative effect by subtly rising your appetite and making you gain weight as you age, slowly or in huge increments. In women, that weight gain is often triggered by child birth since body retains appetite levels and hormonal stuff changes drammatically. Since you are talking about school, you do not see these effects. Not yet. Wait for your 10 year reunion, or ask your mom how many girls that were stick-thin at school came back to her reunion as much heavier. Those things are processed grains (bread, pasta), bad oils, and processed sugars.

2. Things that cause acute and adverse reaction individual from a person to person. Dairy, fruit, nuts, legumes, starches, excessive fats - these sort of things. These you have to experiment with and eliminate what hurts you.

The more I experiment with my diet and fitness regimens, the more I become convinced that there is simply no 'one size fits all' prescription for ultimate state of being when you achieve that happy balance of being reasonably full, very energetic, ina good mood and not gaining weight (or losing weight).

It seems that some people can just "tolerate" junk food better than others. It would suck to suddenly put on weight after having a baby when you've been thin your whole life. I've decided to think of my higher-than-ideal weight as a good thing because if I hadn't gotten into calorie counting a few years ago then I might not have ever heard of MDA or any alternative ways of losing weight, and then I would've ended up as an unhealthy adult thinking I need to eat lots of grains and avoid fat at all costs. And of course I wouldn't be able to stick to that so I'd end up obese and eventually die from a heart attack at an early age. So idk, maybe it's not such a bad thing that I've had to deal with weight gain earlier than most people.

Originally Posted by jsa23

I think this is pretty close to the mark. Individual tolerances to different foods seem to vary. Wheat and related grains, Soy, Dairy, and Nuts all cause problems for certain portions of the population, though the majority tolerate them to some degree. The other piece is that reactions vary by degrees. Some people can enter anaphylactic shock from eating half a peanut. Others can eat a certain food, and the worst reaction they'll get are some sores on their mouth, or some redness where it touches their skin.

The biggest thing for me is that my digestion is a lot better without an excess of "healthy whole grains". That, and grain products aren't satiating and are mostly empty calories - meaning that unless I'm being super-active and needing to take in a ton of calories, I'm happier on a more satiating diet that relies more on vegetables as carbohydrate sources.

Yup, I don't have any food allergies that I'm aware of but I know that I always seem to put on weight when I eat wheat and sugar because they're not satiating as you said, and I think I'm sensitive to their addictive and appetite-inducing qualities.