Monday, January 4, 2010

As promised...err...last week, this is the bear list for drops in Icecrown. Arthas' loot table is still unknown but other than that, it should be good. As I stated before it's likely that Arthas drops a weapon, a neck and a cloak type of item given what we have of the loot tables. So not a lot will change.

Similarly, the weighings have changed for the armor slot. You can find them here, or in the sidebar. Some explanations:

hit and expertise, both being somewhat rare, get some fairly hefty values. This is mostly due to the value of threat at higher levels.

Armor remains at what it was on the gear; this is simply to emphasize higher values of ilvl on gear more and to emphasize armor on nonleather slots more

armor pen is given a ranking, albeit a low one

Feral AP and AP are increased in value, as is strength (again because of threat)

On tier items: the 2p bonus is very good for threat, especially multimob threat. Note that at higher levels this will actually discourage using lacerate for maximum threat (but will still be fine for damage). The 4p bonus is amazing for bears. On average this adds 2% less damage over time (so it's twice as good as the 4pT7 and 4pT9 bonus) but the primary benefit this adds is that it gives bears effectively either the ability to have a cooldown as good as shield wall, except that it's on a 1-minute CD. What this means in practice is that it should be your highest priority to get those 4 pieces, even if others rank higher per slot. Nothing is going to beat the 4 pieces.

And because of the itemization, as stated before - the best bet for you as a bear is to go for 4p + the sack of awesome due to the high expertise and hit rating on it (or the heroic version). You can get other pieces in the meantime, but don't spend those frost emblems on anything other than tier pieces; you want to get them as soon as you humanly can. Nothing else is going to remotely make as big a difference as a 12% CD every minute, and I can guarantee you that it will matter when you try hard modes in a month's time.

For your T10 purchase order: it very much depends on what you have already, but in general try and get the earliest upgrades that you'll actually use at the Lasherweave (base) level. Since there were no 258-level upgrades to gloves, head and shoulders in ToGC for bears outside of the T9 tokens, chances are that most people only have 245-level gear there. For most people that will mean either the shoulders (about a 5 point difference between them and the 245 T9) and the head (same). Since the shoulders cost the least, I'd go with them first, then perhaps the hands to get a quick 2-piece, then the legs or head depending on where you sit on expertise. After your 4PT10, the next purchase should almost certainly be the cloak; only the cloak from heroic Arthas is likely to beat it.

I know, I know - it's hugely tempting to get the Sentinel's cloak. It's a great cloak and will likely only be superceded by an Arthas heroic drop. And you should get it...eventually. Just not before your 4pT10. For me, that's going to be my first purchase I do for tank gear after taking care of my cat stuff.Chest:

Yep, that's right - the sack of wonder is so awesome that even the normal version is better than the heroic T10. That's also to do with the fact that the T10 piece is itemized weirdly; having fewer sockets than the Sack at normal level hurts. Just a huge gulf here. It's a pity more of the pieces aren't itemized like this; bears would be in love.Feet:

Interesting that the crafted boots are so close to the heroics. That's something to watch out for; if you need more EH, the heroics are better - but if you want more expertise or threat, the crafted boots are better. Otherwise not a lot of surprises here; the itemization from last tier is better for bears than it is now, so things like Icewalker's show up higher here (with the proviso that you need the hit). Finger:

What's surprising to me is how good the Twin Valkyr hard mode ring is. Maybe I should run that some more. :) Otherwise, not a lot of surprises here; the armor ring from Dreamwalker comes in hugely for first and second, and nothing else really compares. It's interesting that with the emphasis on threat, some of the agility rings actually come into play here. But unless the fights are very different on heroic, you should likely have armor rings.

Since you can buy the cheap T9 gloves, I've not expanded the list much more than that. Those are now a fairly decent piece, all told. Aldriana's are good, but they're not so much better than the next selection that you want to off-piece it here unless you get unlucky with drops from the Gunship.Head:

Again, I've dropped most items that are below the triumph piece; there's no need to worry about how good your Ulduar gear is if you can pick this up for 50 emblems of triumph. For most bears this is going to be their first T10 piece that they buy (or the shoulders) simply because it's going to more often than not be a bigger upgrade. And while the Geistlord has a ton of hit, it doesn't have a ton of agi. The T10 is pretty decently itemized for bears here.

The T10 is also really great here, especially with all that expertise - but from my experience a lot of people have heroic beasts, and thus have access to the 258 legs. It still should be an early priority; I personally would go for this as my first piece and then replace the head, so that I'm not too low on expertise.Neck:

As stated in the cat guide, there's not a lot of options at the top tier for tanks - which makes me think that there's going to be a drop from Arthas at the 10 or 25 level. Otherwise it's a very boring loot table; Rotface has it going on, and that's about it.

Another case where the offtier is better than the T10 - but not enough to make a difference And it's almost entirely because of gem slots. One big surprise was the shoulderpads of the intruder - those shot up because of the added value of expertise.

Something interesting here is that I'm not ranking trinkets any more by score other than with my personal view on which you should try and get. As a tank, you never pass on a trinket - but some are better than others. Heck, Rawr ranks Death's Choice as one of the better trinkets due to the proc. Trinkets always have uses.

That being said - Unidentifiable Organ is stellar in fights that don't require swapping. Sindragosa's Fang is a great piece in general, and the special ability is going to allow wacky shenanigans in fights. If you had both, I'd likely use both as the standard one-two punch trinkets for all encounters.

The belt slot is typically kinda boring - but this time it's a bit new. The ToGC belt beats anything that drops in ICC normal mode (which is to say, the ONE belt) and is competitive with the frost emblem belt (which you shouldn't buy!). The Belt of the X killer is a nice way to get some hit without sacrificing too much, at least until Astrylian's belt drops for you in heroic mode.

The Bracers of Swift Death are what you should go for if you're not doing raids. If you are doing raids...heroic Anub's bracers are best in slot until we do heroic ICC. That extra socket and the hit rating are what puts them over the top.Weapons:

This list will inevitably change with the new release of the PvP items - more than the other lists by a lot. Even so, Bloodfall will remain fairly good; the high haste makes it a very good threat weapon for bears, and the high general stats helps quite a bit. For pure EH, it's hard to beat Cryptmaker.

33 comments:

thanks for confirming everything I wrote in my last post, it's nice to know I can actually get some things right O.o

That said I am 99.9% sure they fixed it this time around. Since you can only kill a boss on normal or heroic for a given week (unlike with trials 2 full versions of the instance) the rings and trinkets are unique across the heroic and normal modes, so no wearing 2 deviums or 2 sindragosa's

I however, have a conundrum. Knowing that I won't be able to upgrade my T10 to the Sanctified versions (as I don't run 25s), would you still recommend getting the ilvl 251 versions over the non-set ilvl 264 emblem pieces, (given that they cost the same number of frost emblems)?

For example I could get the T10 gloves or the Cat burglar's grips for my 60 emblems.

I, like Nandieb am also wondering this. It was great in T9 to just not worry about the set bonus and go for the 245 gear. Now, I'm wondering just how much I want that bonus.

If say, a guy was pretty sure in 10s his guild would go all the way to Arthas, but also pretty sure they wouldn't be doing heroic modes or 25s very much or at all what then? Bonus or higher level gear?

Right now I'm thinking go set just in case some time I do pug into a 25 and win a sanctified dealy to upgrade it. I wonder though if this is hurting me and my guild by putting me at a lower tier of armor.

Darksend - it doesn't really matter if you can't use both Deviums or Sindragosa's trinkets at the same time; they're still going to rank that high, and they're still going to be awesome. Though you're right that Cryptmaker isn't going to be exactly the winner in EH that you might think, it certainly will win in MEH and with the bear multiplier you're basically comparing 400 health to 400 armor, which usually is in favor of the health.

Nandieb and Copey - in general I'd still go for the set bonuses. As Copey points out you could always get lucky on a token drop from a PuG, and my guess is that the tokens will drop from heroic 10-mans as well (similar to how the trophies came from Anub on heroic 10 man).

That being said, it's a lot of ifs - and if you're doing 10-mans only, chances are that it'll be hard to get your hand on a Ikfirus sack of awesome anyway. The gloves are an 8-point upgrade over the 251 gloves, so it's probably okay for you to go for that for now depending on your gear.

And check the AH for the sack of wonder, since it's a BoE :)

In general I'd advocate getting the set bonuses anyway; they're really really strong and will help quite a bit on heroic modes when we get there.

Yea I realize not everyone will have access to the heroic ones and the non heroic will still rate that high, just kind of a "this might be worth mentioning so people dont blow dkp on something they might not be able to use in 2 months" kinda thing.

The T9 gloves have hit, the T10 does not. I myself am not keen on getting the gloves early until I can compensate for the hit loss. My order is - Sack as early as possible- T10 shoulders- T10 helm(wait for Sack)- T10 gloves/legs

I guess, Darksend - but I'd hardly consider spending DKP on an unidentifiable organ or Fang as blowing it. It's going to be good for a while, at least as long as you're not doing heroics.

And yeah, lifeforce - we've talked about it before. Not sure whatever came of it.

Anon - I'm not really that big on hit, but if you're losing the T9 helm you're losing a boatload of expertise. If hit's a really big concern I'd keep the boots and belt from ToGC. I guess if you're really worried you can not go with the gloves first, but you're going to have to grab them at some point.

I may not be Kalon but I'll dish out a couple opinions on the BiS set.

Wakantanka - I will be using the Royal Crimson Cloak over the Sentinel's Winter Cloak as well as the Ashen Band of Endless Courage over Band/Loop of the Twin Val'kyr so that I am able to make the hit cap because I am a threat monster.

Frick - From what I've seen so far the Idol of the Crying Moon is much better for tanking than the Idol of the Corruptor for almost every fight because you can generally keep Lacerate applied throughout the fight. I wouldn't spend any Emblems of Frost on it until after you get 4pc T10 though.

bananator - in general, yes I do; I favor a more balanced set than a rawrstamina set, and armor is part of that. But it gives me an idea for a post, so I'll save it for that.

wakantanka - 155 is enough hit + glyph of growl + misery to give growl no chance to miss, so I'm okay with that. If you really want higher hit (because of threat) you'll have to look to other jewelry pieces, I think. I'd rather do that on jewelry than on the cloak mostly because I think it'll be easier to obtain different pieces, but that's just me.

I would definitely NOT use the Ashen Band; the DPS version is a very good ring for cats, but the tanking version's proc is utterly horrible. Try to get more hit via the neck instead.

Also I personally favor going for more expertise than hit when I get a choice, primarily because it has a side effect of reducing my damage intake much of the time.

Frick - I knew I forgot something. I'll add it in a bit. The Idol of the Crying Moon is situationally excellent; it's a 60+ agility gain over the Corruptor idol, which is great. The issue is simply whether or not you can keep a lacerate stack up on the boss. It does take a few seconds to build, and that can be not as great. For example on Marrowgar, it's not nearly as good; by the time you've built the stack up he's almost ready to do a bone storm. Same with the Gunship. But on Deathwhisper or Saurfang, while you're not directly tanking him you can keep it up, so it should rock. Same goes for Festergut and Rotface. For me personally I'll be getting it after I get 4pT10 (or 5 for bear & cat, most like) and one of the cloaks.

I guess I should've stated that I MT so I almost never DPS hence the reason why I decided to use the Ashen ring for tanking, even though I think the proc is absolutely terrible due to the ICD it has. I should also state that I do not try to hit cap unless I can have a MINIMUM 40 Expertise =)

Mind you I did overlook Band of the Bone Colossus as a potential ring to use for hit...my bad.

The jewelry isn't even worth the comparison. It looks like the pvp gear slightly edges out the normal tier piece for piece, but the 4pc bonus is solid and the offtier chest blows everything else out of the water.

Normally bears are defense capped through talents and while defense does give us some dodge and miss, expertise and hit are more important for threat and stopping bosses from dodging your hits and parrying.

Since most bears will never be expertise capped its always more valued than hit, and while hit may not be as valuable to cat's its essential to bears.

Simple put t10 doesn't have enough hit on it for the 9% that we need, you end up with around 7% depending on gear you grab.

As a tank used to having 9+% I can tell you it does make a big difference when its below the mark, especially with taunt fights.

Again threat is a big issue now while tanking these bosses with people who are higher gear level than you the extra threat you get from these stats makes it easier overall.

Stamina wise best skills for a bear tank are LW + Enchanting - 102 on bracers + 40 +40 on rings = 182. (LW + JW = 165 from what I can tell) I am sure you can find a JW trinket that will give a ton of stam but most people are using drops from bosses.

Expertise soft cap is easy to hit with the availability of the helm+BoE chest. After soft cap, expertise is worth on average roughly 50% of dodge rating in terms of speed of attacks avoided from parries over the course of a fight, based on the available bosses swing timer. For example paladins it would be a much higher (~80% on average)comparison, but for druids its a non issue: expertise is pretty properly valued.

The hit cap is 8% (263), not 9%. The only time threat is sensitive is in the initial pull, which is offset with tricks/mds. Threat modifiers are so high right now that you don't need to be anywhere near the hit cap to hold threat on competitive dps. For fights where a taunt cannot miss, you should be switching to glyph of growl (coincidentally, glyph of maul will likely get you in trouble on one of those tank switch fights, and do little good on the others).

The relative value of hit doesn't increase simply because it isn't available on tier... it's a value relative to our baseline: Agility. Case in point: if you get more than 263 hit, each point after is wasted itemization. Hit food and a vivid gem or two are more than enough to cover any discrepancies in the current content.

FOr the orther of changin T10 Pieces Its better to left Hands and Legs at last as they are dropped from VOA. And if you go VOA 25 you can get the Heroic version of the T10. I got 264 legs and gloves that way

HEY! i know this is all in the players play style but me being the stamjunkie i and i yous my stats accordingly i use +30 stam in every socket because i failed at leveling JC the for my meta i used 32stam and the 2% armor increse b/c i vote armor is 2nd best stat next to stam for a druid the third stat i stack is a agility because agility accounts for so much as a druid it is a close third it is the gem i use to allow my socket bonus to work. i hope this helped some of you

im a bear tank with full 264 gear i gem agility and stam pretty equally. is that a good way to go now? a few people have been telling me that geming agility is retarded.. WTF am i missing something here?

ThinkTank bio

About Me

Kalon likes playing tanks, no matter how hard he tries to fight it. He is not as hardcore as many but spends a lot of time thinking about WoW, and randomly rants about it now and then. He played formerly on the Argent Dawn (EU) server and was a founding member of Fire and Blood (Quel'Dorei) before joining Casually Serious, a guild devoted to hard core progression on only 8 hours of raiding time a week.
He is a devoted husband, father, and when he has the time programs software.