I get what you're saying, but bringing up Wideman on the PP is kind of pointless. Wideman never, at any point in the series, deserved to supplant Green on the PP. That he did is an indictment of Hunter.

I'd go so far as to say that I don't know if they even know what they were asking of him, but that might be extreme. I think his standards may have been unreasonable though, so "doing what was asked of him" was probably never going to happen.

And again, I wouldn't say "outstanding" either. But I don't expect to ever see that under Hunter.

sorry but its not pointless when people say 52 did "everything asked of him"...clearly they asked for more....agree/disagree with the coaching move is fine.....but to say that they gave 6 top PP time and the 52 was doing everything asked of him dont add up

Mothra is obviously right about the PP thing. They weren't happy with Green's ineffective PP play, so they replaced him with Wideman. Then they weren't happy with Wideman's ineffective play, and replaced him with Green.

One thing is for certain.....the haters are gonna find someway to hate.

Our top 4 was outstanding. Every single one of them. People who dislike 52 are not going to admit it unless he blows them away statistically...even then I'm sure they will look for things he did wrong.

sorry but its not pointless when people say 52 did "everything asked of him"...clearly they asked for more....agree/disagree with the coaching move is fine.....but to say that they gave 6 top PP time and the 52 was doing everything asked of him dont add up

Agreed, but if you're both saying he's not doing everything asked of him and saying what's being asked of him isn't right, you're kind of making a pointless point.

Doing everything asked of him shouldn't be much of a factor in him being "outstanding" if the one doing the asking is wrong. I know you weren't the one who brought up that point, but either way it seems a bit pedantic to me. And, again, no problem saying he wasn't outstanding.

I will second the "very good" statement. Mike did what was asked of him, nothing more, nothing less.

Could he produce more offensively? Sure, I think most of them can. At the same time, I will take pretty good defense, few turnovers and blocked shots over a lot of points any day of the week and twice on Sunday in the playoffs.

He doesn't need to have 5 goals and 5 assists for the team (and how they're playing) to win. I would take a goal and a few assists, but if he doesn't, and they still win, still keep the other team from lighting it up when he's on the ice, it's whatever.

Yes, offensively, he has a high ceiling. He's not being asked to do that now. He's being asked, like others, to sacrifice his own personal abilities and statistics to win. Welcome to real playoff hockey.

Green had one goal in 7 games, pretty much on par with his regular season scoring over the two past seasons. We all know he was trending down long before Dale got here I believe by choice to get better in the dzone after the .ca snub by Yzerman.

It appears he is embracing the defensive side of game. He was perhaps even the first to cross over to the dark side.

pretty sure i saw both green and wideman on the PP last night. Im cool with that rather have 2 d man then Ovie on the point

Yeah. I kinda figured it was just because Backstrom/MoJo/Semin drew the penalty and he didn't want to leave any of them out there for a long shift to start the PP, so I don't know if that's pointing towards a tactical change or if it was just situational.

That said, Ovi's probably going to end up rotating to the point relatively often if that setup holds. Which means you risk either Green or Wideman getting caught up the ice as they pinch in. Sets them up for backdoor plays though.

Why I love this board some times. Good, knowledgeable people disagreeing.

Man that has been missing some lately.

WRT Green. I thought he was a 7 on a 10 scale. Last game his best... first game his worst. He should still be able to produce. We are utlizing our Dmen inzone more than ever. He's probably made 3-4 completely boneheaded plays and none of them hurt. Made a handful of mike green only plays in transition and puck retrieval.

Can and should be better. I was proud of him not wilting as Bruins targeted him in every scrum chance. Heck Marchand reached over one Cap to grab Green's head last night.

if you can explain why wideman was the team minute leader, skating shutdown pair v krejci and lucic and 1st pk unit and why keith aucoin was on the 1st pp unit instead of nick backstrom, then i'll believe this about wideman and green's minutes. i cant explain why dale does much of what he does.

+/- gets beat up as a stat. it depends on your pov. wideman and schultz are whipping boys. that they had a team worst -4 each makes sense. green and hamrlik had a team best +5 each. +5 btw is tied for 2nd best in the league. the caps points leader was ovechkin with 5pts in 7 games. the defensive points leader was hamrlik with three assists and green with the only goal and 2pts.

in such a low scoring series where the caps were clearly playing defense first and had few power play chances, i am not sure why so much is being layed at the feet of low production. the entire team produced little except perhaps for semin and his 3 goals.

One thing is for certain.....the haters are gonna find someway to hate.

Our top 4 was outstanding. Every single one of them. People who dislike 52 are not going to admit it unless he blows them away statistically...even then I'm sure they will look for things he did wrong.

so thats how it works eh? If I dont agree that he was "outstanding" then im a hater and will always find things wrong

it couldnt be that you are throwing around "outstanding" a little too easily...couldnt possibly be that....it must be other people, not you

You really think this system is so restrictive that hr couldn't accumulate 30 pp points and add another 5 goals and 25 even strength assists? I certainly don't expect a return to a point per game, but that would have him top 3 in dman scoring.

I don't buy It for a second.

You do realize that Green's even strength production during the run and gun heyday was 34 and 40 points right? And his PP production during those 25% days were 35 and 38?

I figured it out. We put wideman out there as a decoy of sorts. He is so turnover prone, the Bees abandoned what they wanted to do, and probably game planned on him. Problem is, that he is so inconsistent in being inconsistent, he proved to be too much for them, and they were obviously unable to capitalize last night.

Joking aside, we got a few breaks last night. Commercial break, icing call, penalty, long change period aided by some close but not quite icing calls - helped the Local 566. Dale did not hang that bottom pairing out, and changed when he could.

Its time to get Orlov in, maybe game 2 if we win. Sarge had a few goofs to open the door a bit. Wides is still the poster child for puck movers. While I have long said Wides was kept to add PMD depth, without injuries his presence can be more a detriment. But man does he sure give teams fits. Which team I have no idea.

34 and 40 even strength points in 68 and 75 games. So I'm asking him to score 30% fewer points than those two years.

And what is stopping the same five players from operating a 25% effective power play?

You think that's unreasonable?

It might be unsustainable even if the players don't decline, actually. That bump in effectiveness that coincided with the faceoff rule change seems like it's worked itself out now. The league is starting to trend downward in PP opportunities as well although not dramatically so, I think.

Green was below-average this series. Watching guys by the crease, and - most notably - gun-shy along the boards. He was bracing for hits when no-one was anywhere near him, and making panic throws back along the boards. He's playing worried. Scheme or no, that's the problem.

I like the player he used to be. The player he is now doesn't get near the price-tag. I move on from him. (And Wideman, too, for that matter.)