...But in-WoW [Warcraft 3 is a completely different matter ] N-Elves are by far the most bland, boring and uninspired elven concept ever implemented into fantasy game.

I mean, despite how worn-out Tolkien's concepts are, Elves of "Lord of the Rings"-Online are far more interesting, mature in their design and filled with personality/character developement/motives for ongoing actions/lore than N-Elves of World of Warcraft will ever be before the servers go down for the last time.

Ooh, woow!
That "Alliance are the good guy"-behaviour gets really sad when people claim that chopping down wood is 'starting the attack'.

It seems that nothing goes to far to justify a massacre.
It's a "Jaina-thread" all over again.

But for the night elves it is? i mean have you even spent 1 minute playing warcraft 3, or world of warcraft? or i dont know, ever read anything about elves in genereld? Cutting down tress in ashenvale is a attack, it is sacred for them. Not claim " the alliance" is a do no wrong, humans did it as well, and night elves attack them as well

But for the night elves it is? i mean have you even spent 1 minute playing warcraft 3, or world of warcraft? or i dont know, ever read anything about elves in genereld? Cutting down tress in ashenvale is a attack, it is sacred for them. Not claim " the alliance" is a do no wrong, humans did it as well, and night elves attack them as well

Funny how WC3 N-elves were a cruel fury of the nature incarnate... but as soon as they were imported into Alliance, they were turned into emaciated angsty tree huggers who charge head first without a second thought and afterwards run for the hills crying their eyes out upon first blood being drawn.

Mainly being a Horde player, and not liking night-elves in general, I still have to side with the Kaldorei on this one... it is their home, and above that, it's not like the it's the Stonetalon mountains or something, this forest is sacred to the night-elves, it is enchanted and what not...
The Orcs are ruthlessly ruining this natural haven without care, they can be compared to a big mining company destroying a natural reserve....
The Elves are the good guys in this conflict... no matter what faction you're on.

Funny how WC3 N-elves were a cruel fury of the nature incarnate... but as soon as they were imported into Alliance, they were turned into emaciated angsty tree huggers

They were "tree huggers" all along. I mean, the whole reason for which they attacked the orcs with such fury in WC3 is because they were "desecrating their sacred forest", it's the same reason for which they attacked humans aswell, was not just a matter of aggressive territorialism.

Originally Posted by Keyblader

It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact

Originally Posted by Amerrol

So many ignorant Horde fanboys. I guess if you play a savage faction it slowly starts to lower your IQ

It was one thing when there was a minor incursion, but completely destroying an outpost and lumbering entire sections of Ashenvale, as well as laying siege to multiple other settlements, she should at least be kicking ass, if not malfurion. I mean, destroying nature is kind of something Malfurion is pretty against.

Problem is that the Horde's invasion of Ashenvale (and its subsequent aftermath) took place almost in line with the Twilight's Hammer attack in Hyjal, events that lead to the summoning of the Firelord right there. I don't think that Malfurion like the thought of Ashenvale's resources "exploited" by the Horde for their own benefits, and while I sincerely understand people pissed by the supposed inaction and indifference about the matter by his part, the threat of Ragnaros burning the World Tree and incinerating the world in the process stood firmly in top of the list in terms of priorities.

I don't know how much intelligent would have been focusing on the Horde in Ashenvale while the rest of the world was going to burn (and sooner or later Ashenvale itself with it), so the task to fight against the Horde and try to reclaim Ashenvale for good fell inevitabily to Tyrande, which, unlike her husband, had no other responsibilities apart leading her people.

Originally Posted by Keyblader

It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact

Originally Posted by Amerrol

So many ignorant Horde fanboys. I guess if you play a savage faction it slowly starts to lower your IQ

I side with the night elves for their point is right! In the end, Ashenvale is a sort of holy area of the night elves. They lived there, it was their land, their resources. How would orcs feel if night elves just appeared in Nagrand one day (when orcs had not known there's another world out there) and started cutting pieces of Osh'gun, the holy site of the orcs? I doubt they'd be happy and try to resolve the matter diplomatically, so I also believe the fact that the night elves tried to push the orcs out was right.

Let's also consider the fact that the same happened with humans tehnically, after Cenarius died Tyrande went and saw humans and orcs, and attacked both. Yet at the end of the war the humans left the night elven lands, which improved the relations between the two races. Meanwhile, the orcs not only did not leave, but they continued to cut the forests and left the wood to rot, because they didn't need wood, they wanted to battle.
To add to my point, in Classic WoW I went through Ashenvale on both sides of the story. On the night elven side, the worst you get relating to the battle with the Horde is sending care packages to the Silverwing Outpost and getting rid of a few orcs at the Warsong Lumber mill. On the Horde side however, the forsaken had killed the sleeping druids of the burrowed dens and were trying to use the ones remaining to test their poisons. The orcs had several quests to attack different outposts, like Raynewood retreat and Silverwing Camp, enslaving the water elementals near Silverwing Outpost to use against the night elves and a few others.
So the orcs not only did they not try to mend the situation, they kept making it worse!

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Originally Posted by Zulkhan

Problem is that the Horde's invasion of Ashenvale (and its subsequent aftermath) took place almost in line with the Twilight's Hammer attack in Hyjal, events that lead to the summoning of the Firelord right there. I don't think that Malfurion like the thought of Ashenvale's resources "exploited" by the Horde for their own benefits, and while I sincerely understand people pissed by the supposed inaction and indifference about the matter by his part, the threat of Ragnaros burning the World Tree and incinerating the world in the process stood firmly in top of the list in terms of priorities.

I don't know how much intelligent would have been focusing on the Horde in Ashenvale while the rest of the world was going to burn (and sooner or later Ashenvale itself with it), so the task to fight against the Horde and try to reclaim Ashenvale for good fell inevitabily to Tyrande, which, unlike her husband, had no other responsibilities apart leading her people.

I think the issue people are having with this is the Horde participation. What do I mean, Orgrimmar is the closest Horde capital to Hyjal. So, if Ragnaros succeds, it will be incinerated first. In fact, in the trailer for the patch, it is incinerated first!

Yet... the orcs were more busy fighting the night elves and did not send any forces to Hyjal. The tauren did. And now we have the opposite point, shouldn't the threat of Ragnaros burning the World Tree and incinerating the world in the process have stood firmly in top of the list in terms of priorities for the orcs as well considering this? Because, let's be honest, if the night elves and tauren lost in Hyjal, Ashenvale along with all the orcs and their precious won land would have been incinerated.

Yet... the orcs were more busy fighting the night elves and did not send any forces to Hyjal. The tauren did.

The orcs didn't have the same scary vision of their capital burned to the ground that Thrall had.

Apart this, the truth is that no Alliance or Horde squad/regiment or whatever partecipated in the defeat of Ragnaros. Oh wait, there are the shiny heroes!
The adventures represent the only Horde/Alliance presence there, it is not that the tauren as a people partecipated, the tauren there were mostly druids of the Cenarion Circle, that for the matter, were under Malfurion's command. Hamuul isn't there as a "Horde emissary", he's there as a member of the Cenarion Circle.

For the rest Horde and Alliance "heroes" partecipated alike since no one of them wanted their world to be annihilated, and Malfurion was more than happy to use any help in his hands's reach.

Originally Posted by Keyblader

It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact

Originally Posted by Amerrol

So many ignorant Horde fanboys. I guess if you play a savage faction it slowly starts to lower your IQ

So the orcs not only did they not try to mend the situation, they kept making it worse!

I don't want to excuse anything, especially after the full-scale invasion of Ashenvale in Cataclysm, but the matter is that night elves and orcs ended to be enemies of one another for the fault, and in the same time, the misunderstanding and the pretty different mentality of both.

By one part, the night elves saw their sacred forest desecrated, and they were obviously habit to assault with fury and violence anyone who would have dared to do such a thing. They had their reasons, they are not perfectly right but indeed they are not wrong either, problem is that this automatically activated the orcish way of dealing with such kind of situations, something like "they dare to mess with us with no reason? SMASH THEM TO THE GROUND AND LET THEM SEE WE ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLE WITH!", especially when the orcs in question, well....were those of the Warsong Clan. They pretty continued to see the killing for just cutting some trees a bullshit, and the night elves continued to see the orcs desecrating their forest, and both sides are simply too proud to recognize their respective mistakes, so they kept to treat one another as hated enemies all along.

As I said, I don't excuse actions, and is simply obvious that after their invasion in Cataclysm orcs have crossed the line (no matter the reasons); I'm just simply saying that "mending" the situation was something possible only with both sides lowering their heads and trying to understand the reasons of the other side, instead no one of them did that for even a single second.

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Originally Posted by Arrashi

I say just burn it to the ground. Orcs get no lumber, night elves have no forest. Both sides are equal in misery.

Funny thing is, Tyrande pretty formulated this plan in Wolfheart in case the orcs would have won.

Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-10-13 at 03:00 PM.

Originally Posted by Keyblader

It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact

Originally Posted by Amerrol

So many ignorant Horde fanboys. I guess if you play a savage faction it slowly starts to lower your IQ

I'm voting on behalf of the Night Elves here. I feel like the Orcs have taken things way too far, especially when chopped down lumber was simply being left to rot as a taunt to the Elves. They've been far too cruel and vicious about getting lumber, and don't seem to be willing to do much looking elsewhere to find it. However, I do point out that the Night Elves were in the wrong for attacking without attempt of communication when the Orcs first arrived in Ashenvale.

You know what would have been great?

"Alright you lot, get back to work. Thrall wants his settlement finished by the time he returns." "Please, stop!" "What is this-?" "This is our sacred homeland and our trees are very precious to us. Why do you attack us?" "It's some sort of... strange elf? Yet she has the look of a warrior of all things...! Lok'tar ogar, Elf! We are the Horde, and we have orders to gather lumber to build a settlement for our leader." "Your methods are harmful and reckless. Our Wisps gather wood from the trees without damaging them. If you prove yourself worthy, we will assemble a mighty host of them and supply you with your lumber." "Hhnhh... we could simply take the wood from you, but I sense many of us would die in glorious battle, and Thrall will certainly want as many of us alive to support him. Very well, elf."