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Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

Originally Posted by Montecresto

The same criticism can be made of all politicians, republican and democrat alike. There is no source of Hillary criticizing the Iraq war, I was quoting president Clinton and provided a link as such. If you don't like that, you know what to do.

Did you know that all those Democrats who were for the war, the Clintons included, were later against the war? Did you even read your link? You still have no idea what's going on except to parrot that everything is America's fault.

Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

I doubt he can do anything now. Panetta is not just repeating what was said in his book he is now elaborating on it.

Panetta is finally doing the right thing but what about all the other Democrats who knew what was going on at the time and just stayed silent? Saying their behavior was treasonous may be over-dramatic but that's the word that first comes to mind.

Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

Leon Panetta had now better watch his back now for turning on the Dear Leader, I could see the IRS looking into his affairs. I could see the NSA looking for dirt on Panetta for the Obamanite media to use against him. I could also see the militant Eric "Himmler" Holder looking for something on him as well. This government operates a lot like the mob, you cross them & they will get you.

Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

Originally Posted by cpwill

There was a broad sunni-shia-kurd center coalition building after the elections before the ones we just had. We put Joe Biden in charge of sheperding it, and apparently he managed to dick it up bad enough that the other two groups walked, and Maliki was left with no one to build a majority with but the Sadrists. Iraq had the most federal system of any Arab State.

Iraq never had any experiences with democracy, Saddam Hussein kept the country together by brute force. As soon as he was gone the Kurds more or less became independent. Paul Bremer made things worse by removing the Sunnis from power and Maliki kept only Shiites and his cronies as part of his government, thats why many Sunnis joined ISIS. Iraq can have all the democratic laws it wants but the fact is its a failed state and it isnt working because each faction doesnt want it to work.

Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

Originally Posted by Grant

Did you know that all those Democrats who were for the war, the Clintons included, were later against the war? Did you even read your link? You still have no idea what's going on except to parrot that everything is America's fault.

There's a fair share of republicans that would like to put that genie back in the bottle too. And I forgot, everything's Obama's fault.

Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

According to Panetta the US had the needed leverage to renegotiate the a SOFA agreement with the Iraqi's.

The White House even coordinated the negotiations.

But Obama wanted out period.

So I'm trying to figure out if his motives were purely Political or if he was just frustrated and wanted nothing more to do with Iraq.

Granted, neither one of those reasons justify what he did

It's pretty simple when examined through a political filter. The Nobel Laureate president wanted to portray an image of peacemaker in the middle east, he apologized, led a 'limited war' in Libya and was planning on running on a platform of "I killed Osama, l-Qaeda is on the run, and "I got our troops out of Iraq".

The date was arbitrary as Obama wanted those troops home in time for the election and even said "they will be able to have Thanksgiving with their families".

He wanted out, no matter what, even rejected a token 10,000 man force to stay behind and help co-ordinate the Iraqi military.

I have yet to see any decision from this White House that was NOT based purely on political positioning, usually after the **** up.

Americans can always be counted on doing the right thing...after they have tried everything else." Winston Churchill.

Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

Originally Posted by Fearandloathing

It's pretty simple when examined through a political filter. The Nobel Laureate president wanted to portray an image of peacemaker in the middle east, he apologized, led a 'limited war' in Libya and was planning on running on a platform of "I killed Osama, l-Qaeda is on the run, and "I got our troops out of Iraq".

The date was arbitrary as Obama wanted those troops home in time for the election and even said "they will be able to have Thanksgiving with their families".

He wanted out, no matter what, even rejected a token 10,000 man force to stay behind and help co-ordinate the Iraqi military.

I have yet to see any decision from this White House that was NOT based purely on political positioning, usually after the **** up.

Exactly

Seems. Like he would have learned his lesson by now.

He chose to play Politics with one of the most unstable regions in the world and it backfired.

Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

Originally Posted by Fenton

Exactly

Seems. Like he would have learned his lesson by now.

He chose to play Politics with one of the most unstable regions in the world and it backfired.

That's typical and consistent with how I read this guy. He is so far out of his league he doesn't even realize what a powder keg he was dealing with in the first place./ He has taken his strategy from where he has gotten all his advice, cloying academics who have never seen any more than text book accounts. He fashioned together the most complex health care plan in the universe and still maintains it's 'good', he has underestimated every foreign encounter from arming rebels in Syria to thinking Vlad Putin was a push over like some Republican Senator he can bully. It simply never occurred to this arrogant fool that Putin has tanks and missiles too and would and did use them.
He wanked out of Iraq to meet a personal agenda and now has a cancer eating away at his entire foreign policy and yet he still insists his was is the only way, ignoring his own defense staff.

That is one very dangerous president.

Americans can always be counted on doing the right thing...after they have tried everything else." Winston Churchill.

Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

Originally Posted by PoS

Iraq never had any experiences with democracy, Saddam Hussein kept the country together by brute force. As soon as he was gone the Kurds more or less became independent. Paul Bremer made things worse by removing the Sunnis from power and Maliki kept only Shiites and his cronies as part of his government, thats why many Sunnis joined ISIS. Iraq can have all the democratic laws it wants but the fact is its a failed state and it isnt working because each faction doesnt want it to work.

That is a pretty one-sided description of what occured. In fact there was a broad coaltion including Sunni and Kurds forming under the initial Maliki Government, but we (read: the Presidents' action officer, read: Joe Biden) dicked it up, collapsed it, and Maliki had no option but to ally with the Sadrists to make a majority. Then we yanked out early, leaving that element without a curb.

The idea that Arab Culture cannot adapt to representative government today is no more legitimate than the claim that Confucian Culture could not do so half a century ago.

Re: Panetta unloads on White House for pulling US forces out of Iraq

Originally Posted by Montecresto

There's a fair share of republicans that would like to put that genie back in the bottle too. And I forgot, everything's Obama's fault.

The buck stops elsewhere? Where would that be? You may forget a great many things but one thing you should remember is that the Fundraiser-in Chief has been making seriously bad decisions for six years now, to the point where many are asking just whose side this guy is on.