I guess we could keep chipping away at some of those weekly expenses.. who needs a social life, or trips home (or away), or health… and I guess they could work harder than 60 hours per week, or sacrifice some of that study time to work more, or find a job during the semester breaks to pay back some of that short fall (provided your landlord, food market, and all the others can stomach giving you credit until then. What about student fees? Let’s take a look at that…

Looking at student fee in relation to cost of course

A 3 year course at $12000.. what is the cost of running a course for 16 people per year? (Class sizes are one of the big reasons you would study at a Polytechnic btw.. imagine 350 people or more in a class, I struggle to see the value in university fees..)

Teacher @ $60 p/hr x 20 hrs p/w x 40 weeks = $48000 per year

Classroom and amenities = $4000 p/y

Internet and 16 computers = $32000 p/y

Other specialist learning resource fittings = $6000 p/y

Administration = $4000 p/y

Library = $6000 p/y

SUBTOTAL ANNUAL COURSE COSTS = $100 000

Less Government subsidy of around 70 – 80% = $30 000

Divided between 16 students = $1875 That’s less than half their fee!
(that subsidy figure needs checking.. it is really had to find)

Now, if we consider that in the breakdown of weekly student living costs – included in that is a computer and Internet. That might suggest that we could scale back our provision of such things (ignoring for now the fact that most students probably choose to forgo that cost in their struggle to survive here) and reduce the cost of the course considerably further (especially if I am out with that subsidy and course cost estimate).

I don’t think we are thinking hard enough on what we can be doing to help address this serious social problem affecting the quality of learning in NZ. We have students who have little choice but to study and work 60 hour weeks, racking up and worrying about debt, and/or reducing their standard of living well below what I would call acceptable. I dare anyone to take a tour of rental properties in Dunedin.

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[…] NZ Student Debt is impossible to live with We have students who have little choice but to study and work 60 hour weeks, racking up and worrying about debt, and/or reducing their standard of living well below what I would call acceptable. I dare anyone to take a tour of rental … […]

Thanks, Leigh. Nice post. The problem is not restricted to New Zealand, of course.

Question for you, and it’s not meant to be facetious. Could you construct a business model for a new “something” (I hesitate to use the words organization or institution or polytechnic etc) that would provide your learners greater value at far less cost? Here I’m not thinking about tweaking existing organizations, but rather competing with them based on price and value. At what point do people say “enough is enough” and become entrepreneurs?

Easy for me to say, of course. Far more difficult to actually do. I’ve certainly not been able to muster what it takes.

Hello Gary,
Am thinking on that too. Most of my ideas are tweaks that seem never possible inside organisations. I think the link to free learning, fee education has a rough economic model in it.. and there are a range of ideas in my flexible learning category that could be pieced together to construct an alternative.. in particular the post Out from Under the Umbrellas.. but as yet I don’t think I have cracked the alternative to institutionalised learning organisation because I dunno yet if I have given up on them, or if I want to.. I mean it is largely policy that could seed the changes and bring free education back as a public right.. but there’s a lot of rationalised management culture to undo.. constructing alternatives that have to really exist in unsupported commercial environments might end up being the nail in the coffin for that possibility…

For those of us who don’t have an idea,, can you maybe detail out your descriptions a bit more becuase

who needs $30 for stationary a week
what does that really cover?

then i wonder about
weekly fees of $50
what the difference is between “internet and computing”

also savings and carsm even when i was at uni are for people with financial backing from their paretns, the rest of us bus or bike, but it would be important to put in the weekly bus fee or purchase of a bike.

I too got by without a car when I was a student, but sure could have used one for those times I moved house, wanted to go on a weekend drive, or needed one for a job. I’d love to see Dunedin become a town where people didn’t need a car, but it is far from that today.

There are lots of ways people can skimp on a standard of life that most of us take for granted later.. I’m not interested in that, because our students are very often older people retraining, parents, recently unemployed, and yes, young people who I would like to equally see comfortable and happy while they are studying and maturing. Everyone should have equal opportunity to a fair and equitable standard of living and not be forced into debt simply for being a student.

But how about you chip away at my cost of living and see if you can even get it under what they might hope to get with income? I haven’t been able to get it under, even with the most prudent lifestyle.

To explain $30 per week for stationary, computing and text books: Like the car I worked out what the cost would be for a 3 year set up, and then worked out the weekly cost from that. Computing pays for hardware etc, Internet is separate because we pay for that through telephone changes.

Again, you could argue that all these things are not needed.. but I tend to think these things are commonly needed items for a student and can certainly be useful resources for learning. A camera to quickly scan documents, record interviews, document activities. A phone to communicate and coordinate meetings and events. A portable audio player listen to recorded lectures, music and subscribe to podcasts.

Most of those things that look unneccesary at first really are essential nowadays.
As a design student, we are expected to have a decent computer of our own chock full of expensive design software, good quality camera, etc. The cost of basic materials alone can make most students cringe.

As a mature student the cost is even higher when you factor in the lost earnings into the equation somewhere. Spouses and partners end up supporting those studying far too much, and Studylink is certainly no help there.

A car is no longer a luxury for the kids with rich parents, it’s essential. I suspect anyone who thinks otherwise hasn’t been a student for a long, long time.

Michelle Lui has been trying to leave a comment here, but for some reason is getting rejected. Checked the spam, is not there, I’m beginning to doubt wordpress as this is the 3rd person I know of who has had this trouble.

Anyway, I think Michelle’s comment represents a view held by many NZers and should be here:

As a “mathematician”, I was not convinced with the above calculation. It obviously under the bias in favor of high living cost for students, but shouldn’t the high cost also be relevant to the cost of running a course?

If you choose to purchase an iPod, laptop, digital camera, boozing/clubbing every weekend or a trip home every chance that you get, of course you will end up with a huge student debt.

I studied at University for 4 years, finished last year with only $5000 student loan left to pay off. I don’t buy lunch and coffee everyday, I don’t go out get drunk and stupid every weekend, I do have a portable audio player (mp3) but it only cost $40. I also had a 20hrs part time job in the weekend to help me to cover the cost of rent, power and daily expenses.

You are being a student by choice and most likely your own choice with an “opportunity cost”. You could choose to find yourself a minimum wage job straight after high school to avoid having student debt and maybe remaining in that state for rest of your life. Or accept the fact that you will be a poor tertiary student for 3 years and start to act like one, because your living money is relying on tax payers’ mercy.

Michelle, sorry about the trouble posting. Thanks for sending it through email. My response:

If what you say is realistic and fair.. which I naturally don’t agree with, then we’ll need to discuss where this 10 billion student debt is coming from.. So far in my surveys of the students I know (a father pursuing a good job, a professional changing careers, and young person just starting out), they agree with my synopsis of their costs [and don’t live the lifestyle you are focusing on].

I detect some severe stereotyping in your response, which if you read the papers and walk the streets is an no doubt held by many, and reinforced by a few perhaps.. or maybe the drinking and recklessness you take offense to is a bit like behavior in other depressed communities out boozing all the time even? No doubt you won’t agree with that comparison, but its just another angle on it.

The thing is, in the case of the father I know – you could replace the cost of an iPod with the cost of rearing his son (which I didn’t include), or for the professional changing careers, she has to somehow maintain the mortgage she took on in the last job she had, but now with very little income thanks to the inflexibility of the course she must take.. or the young person who happens to have a different type of debt hanging over them that is beyond what I included in the break down (a bad decision, drug addiction, disability, purchase contracts).

But, your opinion is no doubt informed by your experiences, and your status as a mathematician may carry weight, or not.

Good on you for engaging is the main thing. I had thought about your perspective before posting, but decided mine was fairer.. I may be wrong, but what about that 10 billion dollars?

What an excellent post.
I am still crippled by my student debt years later. I did not qualify for the student allowance and therefore had to borrow living costs as well as course costs as well as the ‘course-related costs’. I had to live at home with Mum and Dad for a start and then my (now) husband supported me through the rest of my tertiary education — all the while I still required the loan. My debt still stands at $40 000 and I am a primary school teacher who does not earn a lot of money!
Your calculations are very good and still on the frugal side. Of course most students are at an age when socialising is incredibly important. It is also a time when you tend to ‘find yourself’ and image is everything. Therefore the social and clothing costs I would say would be at least double your estimates!

I find the “you are choosing…” argument put forward by Michelle Liu quite redundant really – along the lines of telling the supermarket worker she chooses to work there so is worthy of low pay and dismal conditions. For me this kind of some are deserving others not perspective is a dead end view. I don’t see why we can’t all deserve a certain level of infrastructure in our lives – and am happy for those with more to share with those with less. I would prefer a society where we maintain a vision of improving everyones conditions. Students work hard and contribute to society in positive ways – they are worth supporting and sustaining. The financial and social burden students currently leave educational institutions in this country with is shameful and totally avoidable if the govt would re-prioritise.
As for the tax payers money argument – I always find this so mean spirited and disappointing! I don’t mind students being supported by my tax dollars – and i am in a high income bracket so between my partner and i we pay heaps of tax – happy to actually – because I want to be in a world where everyone has a certain level of basic comfort. What I resent about taxes is that more of this money is not directed more productively into health and education.

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