Christ is yet to appear

Monday, October 30

You people must be born again.—John 3:7.

Before receiving this personal witness from God’s spirit, anointed Christians cherished an earthly hope. They longed for the time when Jehovah would cleanse this earth, and they wanted to be part of that blessed future. Perhaps they even pictured themselves welcoming back their loved ones from the grave. They looked forward to living in the homes that they built and eating the fruitage of trees that they planted. (Isa. 65:21-23) Why did their thinking change? They did not become dissatisfied with that hope. They did not change their mind because of emotional stress or turmoil. They did not give up on this earth, as if they suddenly felt that they would find living forever on earth to be tiresome or boring; nor did they merely want to explore some new frontier in heaven. Rather, they changed because of the operation of God’s spirit that not only called, or invited, them but also changed their thinking and hope.

The outworking of God’s purpose in the past is a pattern for the completion. Over the course of the 2,000 years from the time God selected Abraham as the father of all those having faith Jehovah dealt exclusively with the natural born offspring of Abraham’s grandson —Jacob, renamed Israel. Despite all of the waywardness and even the complete obliteration of Jerusalem and the temple in the 5th century, God accomplished his purpose in connection with Israel when Jesus was baptized in the Jordan river and the holy spirit visibly came upon him in the form of a dove. Jesus acknowledged that very thing when he said that the Law and the prophets were until John, but from then on the Kingdom became the new thing.

The relatively few Jewish followers of Jesus were also anointed after Jesus returned to the Father. They immediately became bold preachers of the new reality. And in time non-Jewish believers were born again too. After the second destruction of Jerusalem it was evident that God had concluded his dealings with the fleshly sons of Abraham and had shifted his blessing upon the born again followers of the original anointed son —Jesus.

In time Christ’s congregation followed the same pattern of Israel and become idolatrous demon worshippers —Christendom was born and dominated Christians for centuries thereafter. But just as pagan Israel reformed sufficiently to allow for the work of the Messiah, the Watchtower appears to have come on the scene at a time when the Bible was becoming widely available. Thus, the anointing spirit began to be operative again. And just as the original anointed ones were zealous preachers of the Kingdom, so too the International Bible Students exhibited that same spirit, as do Jehovah’s Witnesses now. It is evident that those who have been born again in modern times have been in association with the Watchtower and the name of Jehovah. After all, eventually all of the 144,000 who are born again will have the name of Jesus’ God written upon their foreheads.

But is that the end of it? No. God’s purpose in connection with the seed of Abraham is not concluded yet. It will not be until the final members of the Kingdom have been sealed. And the sealing does not take place until Jesus returns —until the Second Coming of Christ, which is a foreign concept for Jehovah’s Witnesses —even those who have been anointed; the reason being, the Watchtower claims Jesus returned in 1914 and began his glorious parousia. The Watchtower also claims that Jesus came to his Father’s spiritual temple in 1918 and set all matters aright. So, the monumental return of Christ has been reduced to theocratic history. Except it is a lie —a delusion.

The very last chapter of Isaiah foretells the very thing the Watchtower insists has already happened —namely, the revelation of Jehovah’s glory via Christ and his coming to the temple. Hear the word of Jehovah, you who tremble at his word: “Your brothers who hate you and exclude you because of my name said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ But He will appear and bring you joy, and they are the ones who will be put to shame. There is a sound of uproar from the city, a sound from the temple! It is the sound of Jehovah repaying his enemies what they deserve.”

In the modern-day fulfillment of these prophecies, there was an important spiritual development in 1918 in connection with Jehovah’s worship. Jehovah and Jesus evidently made an inspection of all of those claiming to represent pure worship. That inspection led to the final casting off of corrupt Christendom. For Christ’s anointed followers, the inspection meant a brief period of refinement followed by a swift spiritual restoration in 1919. Isaiah’s Prophecy V.2 P. 397

To illustrate how the deluding influence operates, the Watchtower’s Isaiah commentary claims this prophecy was fulfilled back in 1918, when the last evil elements of Christendom were removed from the Bible Students organization. Besides the fact the Watchtower continued to embrace pyramidology, the cross and even Christmas for several years after Christ supposedly effected a clean sweep of all vestiges of false worship, if the prophecy applies to the clergy, just how were theyexcluding the Bible Students?

Moreover, in what way might the words “may Jehovah be glorified” be attributed to anyone other than Jehovah’s Witnesses? Additionally, how might the clergy been put to shame or punished by God back in 1918? Surely, any clear-thinking JW can see the Watchtower’s interpretation of Isaiah is sheer nonsense.

It is the Governing Body and the Watchtower leadership who exclude anyone who does not submit to their parousia delusion. And it is they who will be put to shame when Jesus appears to the excluded ones during his parousia. Moreover, the coming of Christ to the temple will result in the adverse judgment of the evil slave, when he is thrown into the outer darkness to weep and gnash his teeth.

Just as the reformed nation of Israel produced the Messiah and was then destroyed, the Watchtower has accomplished the final phase –being a rallying point, a temporary holding pen for the last of the little flock. Once they are gathered then the earthly organization is discarded. Regarding the complete accomplishment of God’s purpose in connection with Christianity, the concluding verses of Isaiah speak of the birth of the Kingdom and the final gathering of those who are going to inherit the earth and those who will experience the final sealing resulting in their ultimate rebirth into the new creation: “Since I know about their works and their thoughts, I am coming to gather people of all nations and languages, and they will come and see my glory. I will set a sign among them, and I will send some of those who escape to the nations—to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, those who draw the bow, to Tubal and Javan, and to the faraway islands—who have not heard a report about me or seen my glory; and they will proclaim my glory among the nations.Theywill bring all your brothers out of all the nations as a gift to Jehovah, on horses, in chariots, in covered wagons, on mules, and on swift camels, up to my holy mountain, Jerusalem,” says Jehovah, “just as when the people of Israel bring their gift in a clean vessel into the house of Jehovah.” Isaiah 66:18-20

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Is anybody seeing how Robert is giving us spiritual food daily and I feel saturating. But sitting in the wts study is boring. How any one of you are going to comment on Joel:1:4 about locusts in digging spiritual gems? I have made up my mind to tell the different answer as presented in ewatchman.

J.M.J.

Every day I pray for TRUE spiritual food . I feel we who visit this site are getting it .

Only if personal responsibility for public declarations is to be waived. If we’re choosing to treat him like an invalid, than we really do have a responsibility to gag him. Otherwise, IMO, the more loving action is to insist he explain himself.

i dont think it but its a good article that touches on the topics you bring up so it is one i would recomend but if you didnt gather anything from it then i guess its not recomended

Richard Long

Actually, I clicked the recommend button at the top after I read it. The reason I visit here is because I believe everything Robert writes has value. I’m just lucid enough to realize neither Jehovah nor Christ wrote it, as are we all, riiiighhht?

well then i guess it was one youd appreciate. Robert wrote it and i have no doubt Jehovah has used him to do this work

Richard Long

I recommend it to everyone on Earth.

Daisy

Me too Richard…its food for thought in that I’ve never “studied” my bible so much…to the point that I’m regretting wasting most of my life sitting in a kingdom hall…D

Max

Beautiful article brother King! It is such an important point to know that the WT is a temporary arrangement because we all knew that the WT was going to continue in the NW. Thank you for your hard work. Here regarding the truth we are years ahead of our brothers and sisters at the KH.

trudy

I think it is about heart condition and ones who are truly looking for Jehovah .. It is about the heart not the outer side of white , wash ,Watchtower ..Maybe they should be called w.w.w ..

trudy

I need the truth about that 1914 thing ..I was telling people and you know theysaid it sounded strange and put them off ,,as well as they looked at the other failed dates .
Being born again ..I am not baptized ,so where do I stand .As I will not agree to the lie of the 1914 in order to get baptised I wont be able to shut my mouth on that when I see any JW .Is it possible that I can get a friend to do it ..,I know that may sound silly to some ..But what else can I do ?…

It’s not silly. You, I and several here are in the same boat. We did not accept the prophetic errors and lies and are therefore blocked from baptism. I was cut loose after about 6 months decades ago. Try to find a friend who is baptized and knows the truth. I haven’t had much luck with that but you may. For me it will probably come down to family and leave the rest in Jehovah’s hands. I would do as into the light suggested and pray to Jehovah to find a way and if He needs you to be baptized, He will provide the means. Hope that helps. 🙂

Craig Knight

Trudy – As I was reminded on this site baptism is just a symbol of dedication to Jehovah and Christ. If for some reason you cannot get baptized in water God knows you are his possession. So don’t worry too much about it. 🙂

The Raven

Good thought Craig. Maybe you should post that comment to Trudy. 🙂

Craig Knight

Oops! I meant to but must have had a senior moment! Ha ha!

The Raven

Yeah, me too!

Burt Reynolds

There is truth in that. Sometimes in our spiritual rush, we forget that there are some skin complaints where a person cannot get their skin wet. In questions like these, I always resort to my catch all…..Jehovah is more merciful than his people!

Craig Knight

Yeah there could be all kinds of reasons a person couldn’t get dipped under water. Jehovah knows the hearts of people and as you say is very merciful to those who know him.

Jehovah doesnt need you to dip yourself in water to know you belong to him

Craig Knight

Trudy – As I was reminded on this site baptism is just a symbol of dedication to Jehovah and Christ. If for some reason you cannot get baptized in water God knows you are his possession. So don’t worry too much about it. I sent this to Raven instead of you but you both were wondering about being baptized so it was meant to be. Ha ha!

Craig Knight

Trudy = Have you read Carl Oloff Johnson’s book The Gentile Times Reconsidered. That will explain everything you need to know about 607 and 1914.

Richard Long

Absolutely agree with Craig. And/Or, if it is helpful, Trudy, read the account of Daniel Genser on *how he wrestled* with the issue with the use of Johnson’s writings.

I think I linked it before, but maybe didn’t emphasize *why* it’s valuable. Warning, it DOES NOT come with a happy ending.

I’m so glad you enjoyed, DA introduced me to this YouTube site on the books of the bible! I find them so interesting and faith building. So make sure that you check out more books of the bible. 💜 YES , a warm refreshing island breeze!!

Thank you for this Robert it explains a position I took on this matter a few weeks ago beautifully.

“It is the Governing Body and the Watchtower leadership who exclude anyone who does not submit to their parousia delusion. And it is they who will be put to shame when Jesus appears to the excluded ones during his parousia.”

The prospects for baptism by jws are a no go for a number of us. Is there an allowance made for us as well? You once described a baptism of fire and I’m almost afraid to ask, but what does it mean?

Max

John 3:16 baptism of fire is a baptism of judgment the key to survive it is by faith

The Raven

Max, can you give me more details or scripture on that please? I am very interested as you know.

Bklyn Kevin

Before the Day of Jehovah’s Anger.

Excerpt:
With the above in focus, let’s refine the question to this: is it possible that some of those meek persons of the earth who will be harvested for life will be unbaptized when the hour of judgment arrives? And the answer to that is yes, since, obviously there will be many children and teens among those who will inherit the earth. And let’s leave open the possibility that there will be many others too who are presently seeking Jehovah, but who for whatever reason have not gotten to the point of baptism. Their going through the tribulation will be baptism in fire.
Read more> https://e-watchman.com/day-jehovahs-anger/

Craig Knight

Thanks for sharing this link Kevin! Awesome article and very reasonable.

Bklyn Kevin

Your very welcome Craig and yes Robert articles are awesome and every free moment I have when I’m not working I read them endlessly and over and over again and for some reason the information just sticks in my head where the article is and what the information inside the article is and so when you guys talk about a subject it just pops in my head and I have to share with you guys.

Craig Knight

Yes I read RK’s article’s and I keep re reading his book as well. I spend most of my time here reading the forum all times thru the day. I was spiritually starving for logical explanation of the Bible for almost 30 years. Tho most of that time my oldest son and I were always discussing the Bible and why JW’s were so in the dark on many subjects. I agree with your comment that Jehovah’s spirit is guiding RK.

I respect your opinions as you hold close to the Bible in all your comments here. I would like your help with the blood issue. I am struggling to know if taking a blood transfusion is a sin as the Bible does not specifically say anything about taking human blood. Even in Acts where it says to abstain from blood the context was about eating it in the meat. I do not trust what comes from the WT anymore. I need help with this because when I was out in the world I had a blood transfusion in a major operation. If animal blood is sacred then human blood should obviously be more sacred. But is blood more sacred than human life? I am on the fence on this one. I have been praying about this matter. Thanks my Brother.

Jayshah

Dear Craig Knight, Hello again! I hope life is treating you well, excuse me to interject …Again!….I was going through the forum and just read your conCerns about the blood issue, my wife is pregnant so it has been on my mind lately too.
I did a little digging around and thought I may share a gem or 2 I found that helped me, mind you it is not conclusive for me as what is tricky is that many people’s views differ on this and ones minds I respect greatly like RK,his views differ to what I have found elsewhere that I will share with you now.
You may have also thought of this,
But one point is that as you were on the same thinking that the question is , is the symbol of something more Importent than the thing itself ie. Is the symbol blood and the life in it more Importent than life itself?
Is the marriage ring more Importent than marriage itself?
Just retorical questions really to ponder on

Also when I delved into the scriptures I saw that Jesus broke Jehovah’s law on occasions such as healing on the Sabbath even though he could have waited till the next day when it wasn’t a Sabbath
Luke 13:14-17New International Version (NIV)
14 Indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, the synagogue leader said to the people, “There are six days for work. So come and be healed on those days, not on the Sabbath.”
15 The Lord answered him, “You hypocrites! Doesn’t each of you on the Sabbath untie your ox or donkey from the stall and lead it out to give it water? 16 Then should not this woman, a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has kept bound for eighteen long years, be set free on the Sabbath day from what bound her?”

17 When he said this, all his opponents were humiliated, but the people were delighted with all the wonderful things he was doing.

Mark 2:27New International Version (NIV)

27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Pharisees were concerned that Jesus broke Gods law. It was punishable by death to work on the Sabbath. Exodus 31.15

The society cannot change their doctrines on blood due to all the lives lost due to not taking blood and all the poor children’s lives and just imagine the repercussions on changing there stance on it now. They recently introduced the confusing fractions idea as a sort of half way House.

It is 2.30amand there is still many more things on this subject so I hope to touch base again.
God Bless my friend

Burt Reynolds

Hello Jayshah, yes I have thought on that same point that you mention. Is the symbolism of blood more important than life itself? And it is a good and reasonable question to ask. When I look at it, my answer is yes, it is more important than life! When Jehovah created Adam, it appears from the scripture that the body he created was inert until he ‘breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and he came to be a living thing.’

This leads me to consider that Jehovah is the entity of life. I cannot share my life with you unless I gave you my blood, in which, the bible tells us, resides the life given to Adam. Adam had life within him, given him by the source of life. No other person had life breathed into them, not even Eve, whose life was transferred through Adam. We are conscious because of life. Life is not conscious. It initiates consciousness in spirit and in flesh. Spirit has mass one assumes.

Likewise today, life is transferred down through the male. Thus we are all decedents of that entity, that same extension of life. It does not belong to us, it is loaned to us. Energy never dissolves, it is transferred into different forms. Life is passed on through procreation but in that instant, it becomes an individual, independant in life, if not physically during gestation. There remains, as with Adam, a dividing line. He existed, momentarily perhaps, before he was alive. It may be assumed then, that taking the source of life out of the body, and implanting that into another to keep that other person conscious of his own existence is wrong. That would be Jehovah’s perogative, as with Lazarus. This is surely different from conception?

I’m only looking at this from a scriptural point of view. I’m no biologist and this may well seem a madness to such qualified ones, but nonetheless, I think in scriptural terms, it may be worthy of consideration when discussing the blood issue and what ownership of the gift of life means. By all means tell me otherwise!

Jayshah

Dear Burt, I have just logged in and quickly read through your thought provoking reply to me and I will need to read it a couple more times and would love to rep!y you with my thoughts again when I get a few moments more.
You summarise it all well at the end about the fact that life is loaned to us or even the way I see it as well that we have this free gift of life given to us and obviously this subject takes on a whole new meaning if we, God forbid were ever in need to extend our life on a sick bed would I have the ‘guts’ to refuse blood if I knew it meant saying goodbye to my wife kids and loved ones and friend’s. The question is if I succumbed and took the blood will Jehovah really hold it against me? Don’t get me wrong I will try all means to avoid taking blood as it is very clear that Jehovah does want us to value life and respect blood as it is his universal law but wasn’t the custom different back then where blood was used frivolously and eaten.
I suppose it may be true that this is a universal law and once we are growing to perfection we won’t be necessarily be put into such a compromising life threatening situation to needing blood. Im just thinking on the reality of what I mentioned , would I have the ‘guts’ to leave my family behind.
I suppose in a way isn’t it like the situation when the apostles scarpered when Jesus was caught to be killed as they didn’t want t to die, Jehovah surely understands our liMitations and I suppose he knows all our intentions and motivations.
He surely can see now that we all are trying to be mature Christians and doing our best to be obedient to him and to his laws.
As Craig Knight has posed this question I hope he sees your reply to and I will mention it to him now.
As he just commented we need to continually pray on this matter like all things and grow in Christian understanding maturity and hope we can please God in all things.
Burt you are truly a ‘Daddy’ on this site a stalwart and i have read many of your comments which I enjoy very much, I laughed alot on the ‘typo of the year ‘ comment thanks for that.
God bless you Burt

Burt Reynolds

I suppose it helps to understand what the animal sacrifices meant and who they represented in terms of their blood being poured out. Likewise, in respect of the issues you raise about having the courage to refuse blood, it is best to prepare your answer beforehand. When driving, I have already made the decision that if an animal runs out in front of me, I will not try to avoid it, and will check for safety of others first before slamming on the brakes to try to save its life. I know by then I would probably have killed it, but I would prefer that to killing a person by swerving into their path. Thus with the blood issue, decide before hand what you will do. Do your reasoning now and discussions now and be prepared. In the coming time, it is far more likely that you may have an immediate threat to your life made to you, than be offered a blood transfusion. What will you do then? What would I do? Believe me, we all dread to think about it. If Jehovah can forgive murder, likewise, as the bible says, He ‘will not allow you to be tested beyond what you can bear. ‘ For the moment, perhaps it is better to rejoice in your deliverance than it is to dwell on any possible demise that may not happen. Make your choice and leave it alone until required….if it is required at all!

Craig Knight

Jayshah – Hello again and thanks for your comments. I liked what you said about the wedding ring that’s good. I also am empathetic to your situation with your baby. Congrats by the way. Is this your first child? When I stop and think about JW’s and the blood issue. I think about parents allowing their child to die when the child is not even old enough to make up their own mind on the matter. Shouldn’t a child be allowed to grow up and make his own decision on blood? I can understand a grown person laying down their own life after much study of God’s word but a baby? This almost sounds like child sacrifice. A person should be a mature baptized Christian before choosing or not choosing a transfusion. It seems extremely cruel to me to let a child die or to be put in that position by men who are themselves lost. Should we follow blind men off a cliff?

Paul went to Jerusalem to help the Bother’s as they were fighting over circumcision. The law demanded a man get circumcised or face death.
Acts 20: 1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Notice what Peter said: 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

The law was done away with so we don’t have to worry about circumcision which is a yoke Christians no longer need bear up under. So why do JW’s take their stand on the blood issue? Because of Acts 15:19-21 19“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.” If this verse in Acts was never mentioned then Christian’s would be free to eat blood but God wanted Christians to abstain from food offered to idols, from strangled meat with blood in it and from drinking animal blood. It should be obvious that eating human blood would be especially egregious! But blood transfusions are an organ transplant. Many Brothers have had organ transplants so why not blood? How is it different?

Jesus went against the law because it was soon to end thus He and the Apostles ate wheat on the sabbath and they healed people on the sabbath etc…The Israelites ate meat with blood in it when Saul would not let them eat until the fighting was over…King David and his men ate the show bread when they were hungry….all these things by law should have meant death but these men didn’t die because life is more important in certain desperate situations. We have our God given conscience’s that we must use. The WT is an unreliable source on many teachings and no other religion in the world accepts this view. So are we following men on this issue? JW’s seem to use emotion to try to answer the issue of blood transfusions but they don’t use scriptural support. The Bible says that life is sacred and so is blood. Jesus attitude towards the law would seem to say to me that life is more scared. But Iam still keeping a prayerful attitude on this subject.

Jayshah

Hello Craig ,
You have packed alot of info into your comment and it is obvious you have spent quite a bit of time pondering over this important matter and surely Jehovah can see your intentions and motivations are of love and respect to his laws.
Expanding on your comment about child sacrifice I guess you can flip what you said the other way around and I would also say as I did just now in my reply to Burt on this subject that, what sort of parent would I be to leave my children behind without me, as in a way if I’m gone so will be there life, even though they are alive to have to live with knowing that I maybe could have stuck around longer but am gone now and left a vast void in there life ultimately sapping their life and of all others close to me. How sad.
I have one other child a 2 year old thank you for asking Craig. Im a happy father and I have just learnt what life is all about after been a father. How wonderful Jehovah gave us the priveledge of creating and taking care of life when in fact he could have made us all directly himself. All good gifts come from God.
Craig I hope to never taste death or ever have to see my children suffer and I don’t think I would have the ‘guts’ to leave them not even for a split second. Please read the beautiful reply Burt sent on this subject and my reply to him.
Craig you are a mature Christian and we are all growing together in maturity we have a long way to go and are trying to pack in so much understanding into a short time that’s left.
I will keep it simple Love is everything God is beautiful and we all want to remain through to forever without a pause. Im no way ready to sleep whatever faces us, eyes wide open!
Peace and the best of health and life to you, Craig

Craig Knight

Jayshah – Thanks for the good words. I am really striving to make the right choices and sometimes it is really hard to get to truth. You sound like a good loving father and a good spiritual person. My two boys are in their 40″s now so I’ve been thru the up’s and down’s of being a parent. Having my sons made me wake up and really focus on my relationship with God so I could give hope to my boy’s. Life comes along and throws so much negativity at us. May Jehovah bless you family and remember your wife is always right! Ha ha! By the way my son’s are my best friends! 🙂

Burt Reynolds

You are a kindred spirit Craig. I ponder this on and off because of the watchtower’s lies on it. Many people say the watchtower conditioning never leaves you and to some extent, they are right, but then, maybe there is a reason for that. Regardless of the wrongdoing within it, the watchtower has always been an enigma to me. I’m not going to imbue it with anything it’s not entitled to, but it seems to be unique in its purpose without others having to mention it. It is an anomilie greater still that mankind, even when presented with the truth, seeks to disprove it….endlessly….and distrust the purveyors of such truth and thus the provider, originator, also. And such is that so, each has to own their interpretation. Just as the bible says, ‘the Christ is here or there, but do not go after them.’ Yet on the other side of the coin, we have to seek truth where it may be found, but, being of men, we are plagued by doubt when we find it. Thus whatever we are to find, we will never have the certainty that we seek along with it.

Faith…a thing hoped for but not seen. ‘Hoped for’ being the operative words. Men now seek for certainty because the days of trust, died in the garden of Eden. It will not be found. This is the reality of faith and we are in the inevitable consequence of our imperfection of having to make do with that, so that we are forced to acknowledge Jehovah if we want to be with him.

Faith could well be termed as a punishment. Did Adam have to have faith in Jehovah? No. He had trust in a one to one relationship. He was given straight talk. ‘Do not….’ Trust is a certainty is if not, if we want to split hairs. Faith is only assured, leaving the gap that we have to bridge with commitment, the lynchpin or indeed the explanation of faith. Trust is not an assured expectation as faith is, it is a certainty. Faith allows for a gap. Of what? one may ask. Choice, may well be the answer. The choice to see good, to see, feel, love, provision, reason and motive…..the elements of trust. Faith is a commitment on our behalf to place trust correctly. It is perhaps these things that lead us to stop searching when we see the fulfilment of it and to sit down and feed at the table.

As to blood, as Kevin once said to me, what part of ‘do not’ do you not understand? That, and all the other evidence of its prioritising of it in Jehovah’s dealings with us. That does not address though, the human element in the search, and which is doubt of meaning or application as you point out. Surely saving a life is just as sacred? ‘No greater love……..no greater love does a man have that he lays down his life for another.’ But what of saving our own? Why would we lay down the sanctity of life against ourselves, that no one else can give us, but Jehovah? Jehovah is the life giver, the owner of the entity of life. It comes from him. We only pro-create it, pass it on. Even though we live by it, we do not own it. It is a gift. We will never, in this system, have alleviation of doubt. That is why we have to have faith. When our faith is at last fulfilled, we will have full trust, not an assured expectation, and never have to lean on our own understanding again. Is this not why Jehovah gives independant life to his son and the annointed. Think of it. Independant life!? Why do we, why should we, feel that we have the right to give that? As Jehovah says, the life ( that he gives us) is in our blood.

Jehovah is faith and owns faith. Faith is an entity in itself. It is not tangible, but a God given sense. It is only He who is the epitome of faith and trust. Jesus told us to ‘have faith’. It seems reasonable then to assume that before then, we had not developed a portion of it, and like all things human, our faith cannot be perfect.

It was a joy to read that you follow this site throughout the day. I do the same. Like peas in a pod!

Craig Knight

Hi Burt – Thank you for your input I really appreciate it. I especially like what you said here: We will never, in this system, have alleviation of doubt. That is why we have to have faith. When our faith is at last fulfilled, we will have full trust, not an assured expectation, and never have to lean on our own understanding again. Doubt is our curse it seems but faith is the cure. I pray for more courage and faith all the time. It seems to me after all the questions that it boils down to the word abstain from blood! The Bible needs to be studied from context from Genesis thru Revelation. The Old Testament is clear that life is in the blood and that blood is sacred and especially human blood even tho the Bible only mentions animal blood we have to assume that human blood would obviously be more sacred. When Abel’s blood cried out from the ground after He was murdered by his Brother is an example how Jehovah see’s life – Abel’s blood represented his life. So I feel like I’m getting my balance on this subject and I thank you for helping me see it. “Abstain” is good enough for me and as you say faith in God’s sure purpose to raise the dead will help us hold to our integrity on the blood issue. Thanks again and I liked the peas in a pod. 🙂 Thanks my dear Brother!

Burt Reynolds

Ha! I had a memory once. I have to depend on yours now! Speaking of which, did you ever have time to find out about the anomalie of the Israelite being able to sell a dead carcass with its blood to a non Israelite? No obligation of course, but I cannot find anything!

Bklyn Kevin

Hello Burt: the truth is I don’t have the answer NOT right now anyway however at present I am still investigate your question when I get conclusive answers you will be first to know, sorry for the delay.

The Raven

I’ve been reading the articles everyday but I haven’t got the memory you do for this. I’ve read the bible many times over, but never from cover to cover. I started with my favorite book, Revelation and the referring scriptures and footnotes lead me throughout the other books for weeks more times than I can recall. I am finding out Robert’s work is much the same way for me. I look at one thing and wind up in several others. I have always learned by this method but he has a very large collection of work and I’m ecstatic when I CAN find an article to post in reply to someone’s questions! I sometimes have to stop, close numerous windows and beg for your help in finding an answer to my original question. I don’t know how you are able to retain that info but I’m sure glad you can!

Podcast #50
Why didn’t Jesus use the word “Armageddon” when discussing the conclusion? Also, Question from unbaptized person considering baptism on how to go forward in the faith even though not in agreement with the Watchtower. Concluding with questions from a sceptic on what convincing proof is there that Jehovah’s Witnesses are the true faith .https://e-watchman.com/podcast-50/

The Raven

That podcast was really interesting. In fact I’ve said exactly what Robert said concerning those of us on the outside who know the truth versus those on the inside and I too believe Jehovah made that possible. Another thought came to mind concerning that and baptism. Since being baptized does not secure salvation given the numerous judgements against God’s people obviously, I understand that the fire will consume the wicked but not those who have faith. Would this apply to everyone or just the anointed?:

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11 For no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ.+ 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13 each one’s work will be shown for what it is,* for the day will show it up, because it will be revealed by means of fire,+ and the fire itself will prove what sort of work each one has built. 14 If anyone’s work that he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward; 15 if anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved; yet, if so, it will be as through fire.

the answer to your question is who is the generation who come out of the great tribulation that do not pass away?

The Raven

That’s correct. Thanks for looking into this, DA. I was interested in the conditions since the issue of gatekeepers blocking access is a problem. I’ve come to realize a few more things and Robert’s article hits the major concerns I had. I found it to ease my mind along with yours, Kevin’s, Max’s, Burt’s and Craig’s comments.

I would think the scriptures apply to everyone.
2Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,
17 “so that the man of God may be fully competent,” completely equipped for every good work.

1 Corinthians 10:11
11 Now these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us+ upon whom the ends of the systems of things have come.

Max

Kevin explained it beautifully!. What I can say after my years of studying the bible is that Jehovah is not an inflexible person and he will always examine our hearts before he sees if we are baptized or not He will place love for His name and loyalty to his commandments above baptism . He values our disposition our readiness to love him over all other things and humans the most and when He sees that love He makes it grow even bigger in our hearts. We are all His creation Raven and He will not let anybody die because they are not baptized if that person has the right heart and loves Jehovah above everything else He will protect them and let them live. At that point they would have been baptized by fire.

Richard Long

Well, actually, Robert explained it beautifully. Kevin can only take credit for cut and paste, but that, too, has value that should not escape our notice, so I can wholeheartedly commend his efforts.

Bklyn Kevin

Actually all credit should go to Jehovah including Roberts articles which are born out of Jehovah’s Holy Spirit.

For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were moved* by holy spirit.1 Peter 1:21.

P.S. I Was not taking credit for anything as you are implying, I mean if I was trying to take credit then why would I put the name of Roberts article up and use the word excerpt?

Richard Long

I can’t see where I gave credit to anyone. I did give commendation to you for what I genuinely consider to be a service of value to your brothers and sisters in calling to mind what Robert might have or have not had to say on any matter, If you don’t wan’t it, don’t take it. Perhaps you think it is no commendation at all since it comes from me?

Did you just affirmatively state that Robert is a prophet borne of Holy Spirit? That would make his writings scripture, would it not? Please ask him to state publicly whether he agrees with you in this matter.

Bklyn Kevin

There you go again Richard twisting words around to suit your own agenda,sorry buddy I’ll have no part of your word games and please keep my name out of your insinuating comments thank you.

However if you need help in retrieving bible information or articles from Robert Kings archives feel free to ask.

Richard Long

And yet another vague condemnation. Are we up to 77 yet? Can you please hike up your holy spirit and make an actual, coherent accusation already? I would surely like the world to know what agenda I am pursuing other than discovery of truth?

I am not insinuating anything, I will plainly say that your behavior in word and deed bears the hallmark of delusion more dangerous than the one we escape in the WT. You have made yourself an acolyte of Robert King, which I do not believe he seeks or approves of. And you conduct yourself in that self-anointed position in the most hateful, despicable, and deplorable manner possible whenever someone refuses to accept your offering on the basis of its premise. Frankly, I don’t know how Robert tolerates it, but it’s HIS house.

Tell me, is there ANY other source of truth on earth besides the NWT, JW dot org and THE WORKS OF ROBERT KING? Even ROBERT seeks information elsewhere in his pursuit of truth, or at least to inform his opinion and have personal confirmation he is himself standing in truth.

I believe you are a good man, consider you my brother, and constantly defend your character elsewhere in the ether when it is under question. In many instances , as is true with all of us me especially, your behavior is at times abysmal.

If you can’t remove your head from Robert’s colon, as I’m sure he is quite uncomfortable with it there, can you please at least follow his example and treat divergent opinions with a modicum of respect due any human child of your Creator?

Agape, RL

Bklyn Kevin

Personally Richard Long I am truly tired of your accusations as well as your insinuations not to mention your twisting not only the scriptures but also peoples comments / dialogs which cause division thus contentions! Yes I had enough of your nonsense!!! and personally I can’t stop you but that doesn’t mean I have to listen to you either.
So with that being said I pray that Jehovah blesses your search for the truth but as of now I am personally blocking you, that means I will no longer be able to see any of your comments.

The Raven

I agree with you. I am also blocking him after this latest round of disgusting accusations. I am not wasting my time with this sort of thing anymore. You’re right about what you said to me concerning the times and the indicators of this kind of “spirit”. It’s only going to get worse. Thank you for all the time you devote to looking for our answers. I know others here appreciate it as much as I do.

Bklyn Kevin

With all that’s going on in the world who needs any more distractions.

You’re very welcome and I’m always happy to be of service.

#savekevin

Kevin, I’m wondering why many of us are victims of similar (read identical) pseudo-intellectual verbal onslaught by both black curtain and Richard Long (I suspect is a phallic pseudonym). Could they be one and the same???

Richard Long

Victim’s indeed. That is a frame of mind if there ever was one. If I were posting under a phallic pseudonym in all honesty my User Name would be Richard Average. As it is, it happen’s to be the name on my birth certificate, an act of confidence and trust in Jehovah you cannot claim.

The comment you directed to bc was entirely unassailable although one questions necessity of calling out a typo easily assumed to be caused by auto correct and haste. The right word was there and the word causing dissonance was extra. One has to wonder: “why bother”? We all tidy up our submissions when we see error on reread and bc is no different. Your correction did have a special kind of smarm undeniably slathered all over it, IMO. Maybe you think bc in particular does not deserve a smiley emoticon to help him swallow his humiliation? Look, we ALL hate lawyers and whatever reason you have for doing so, I’ll probably agree with. I am telling you I have come to love the man for *who* I know him to be as my brother. As he is not submitting as eW house counsel, nor should he be held to any sort of professional standard for his submissions. If you disagree, you do so with my blessings, just not my agreement. (AS IF either were necessary? :p)

I did call into question your comment directed to MAX, particularly because I believe it absolutely unnecessary to denigrate the original poster in order to convey to Max your information discrediting the submission, a lesson I have learned the hard way myself. I hope it is not personal with bc in your case, but if it is, lets just recognize it and move on so I can categorize it accordingly

And I have to wholeheartedly agree with you on the low tolerance for spurious submissions and would like to never see any, but is abundantly apparent Robert allows them. I can only guess he feels this may be the only place the community may have information examined by fellow truth seekers. Look, we’re not Lexus/Nexus. You may ask him to explain himself directly if you choose. He may even hire you as content director and web presence manager. Who knows?

I never made any comment regarding YOUR character other that I assumed it was good. Was I wrong?

#savekevin

Gary’s apologist

Richard Long

So, it IS personal? I never even knew bc’s name until now, if that is in fact who you are referring to. Yes, I’m proud to defend the good character of a man as I know him. Do it for lots of people all the time.

If you believe there is some reason the man should not be held in regard by others apply the house rules and let fly, otherwise I will continue to trust him and take him at his word until I have cause not to.

Richard Long

For the record, everyone, there originally appeared in this place a personal given name, indicating that kevenator here is on a first name basis with bc. Please keep that in mind as you attempt to contextualize whatever else has transpired should you be bored enough to follow this thread.

#savekevin

You are a jackass mate. I’ll have no more of it or from blind carpet either.

Richard Long

I AM a jackass, and a right proper bastard too! But there will be no end of it as long as you come round pushing cack till Robert pulls the trigger on me. Can’t figure out why he hasn’t yet, unless maybe he simply has no injunction against honest calls to account for abysmal behavior.

Actually Max Robert explained that beautifully, all I did was to excerpted it from his article.
On a personal note Max I always enjoy your wonderful comments thank you.

Craig Knight

Both of my grandparents on my Father’s side were anointed and wonderful kind loving people. Won’t they be in shock when they are raised up to Christ to find they were deceived about 1914?

KB

Even the great crowd who will be resurrected will have a lot to learn. I’m sure my father will be shocked when he is brought back to life. Most everything he believed was a lie. The web of lies will be done away with soon.

Craig Knight

That’s true! My Father and Brother and Brother in law will be surprised to know they can remarry. I’m sure they will just be happy to be back after waking up from a brief nap.:)

JTK

it would seem that Isaiah is declaring that those who have not known Jehovah will do so at that time, indeed Jehovahs glory will be made known among the nations and people come to him out of them
JWs believe such things to happening at this time, however Isaiah seems to indicate that this does not happen until the revealing of Gods Sons.
the 1914 delusion is such a blinding false light

JTK

upon reflection Isaiah 66 :18-20
are we to understand that when Christ returns and the sons of God are revealed that a continuation of the gathering of the little flock occurs and produces a witnessing to the whole of mankind like never before seen and is the final authentic gathering of the GC who will be the ones living that may well never have to die

Sharon

sorry but I cant help myself.i think that after reading the comments below,if I don’t know any better it almost sounds like the sort of nonsence and gossip you would hear at the kingdom hall.and I do think if your not careful,you brothers and sisters will be just as guilty as our brothers and sisters who have put their loyalty in an organization,your putting yours onto one brother Robert king.he is just a man,who is giving us his interpretation of scripture.we are asked to love Jehovah with all our heart mind soul,and strength,love our neihbors as ourselves,take in knowledge of Jehovah through his word,exercise faith in our lord and savior jesus Christ which we get from his word the bible,and maybe we just might receive real truth,and how wrong we all are, when the two witnesses appear

Burt Reynolds

Hello Sharon. Yes I agree things may get out of hand in that regard, but it depends on the motive of the person and what they gain from this site. Pure adulation, if that is what it is, as I am well aware of and others on this site, if not all, is a total waste and blindness. However, it is the human condition to be grateful for knowledge and it is a cultural sense too. For example, when I used to teach social science, I used to be given on occasion an Indian person to teach. He would never ask a question, but would studiously absorb all I told him. Eventually, I had to tell him to question my teaching and challenge the issues I brought to his attention. He told me that it was wrong of the student to question the ‘master’. That, I would venture, is the picture of what happens at the Kingdom Hall, not here (yes I am aware of all the other issues attached too). Here, people question and argue, and I thank the Father for that for it increases my reasoning no end.

The more reason given the arguements, and the more humanity revealed, the greater the understanding. Clearly, the greater the understanding, the more appreciation for the person or persons providing it.

There is also the fact that we have to have teachers. Christ taught, not as a god, but as a man. The apostles called him ‘master’. The prophets taught as men and were also reviled for their seeming arrogance as mouth pieces for Jehovah. Moses too. And did not the Jews murder Christ for saying he was the son of God amongst other things?

What the apostles realised, and said to Christ when asked if they too would follow suit, was to respond ‘to whom would we go?’ Yes, all praise should go to Jehovah and Jesus, but I have no evidence to date that anyone has sought to elevate this site to the same height. And I can truthfully say of myself, that joining in with people on this site and in discussing and reading all material given, my appreciation of Jesus and Jehovah has come alive and meaningful to me for the first time in my life, and I am extremely grateful for that. Other sites bear truth too, yet all sites, none of them, including this one, are not necessarily correct and neither can they be because we just don’t know. We can point and click, but that does not mean it’s in the right area. And that has never been denied here, or forgotten by everyone else here, but we can at least have confidence that it is freely offered with integrity for our reasoning.

We are women and men here. Some may be gushing in praise for the things that they have learnt, but like me for certain, they may have much to gush about when the the truth is revealed or made sense of and reason given to it. Sometimes it is referred to as being ‘over-joyed’ as were the apostles at the man Jesus. It is easy, in human terms, to confuse deep gratefulness and expressions of joy and ensuing peace, for praise. But if there is praise to be given, I have yet to see it be more than the misplaced result of a great shout of praise to and for Jehovah in his provision of knowledge . Well, that too on occasion is understandable as it would be for the bringer of any gift from someone else. One would hardly take the gift and slam the door on the person who has taken trouble to deliver it without thanking them for such, would they?

Ultimately, for Jehovah’s purpose and that of Christ to be understood, it needs an earthly teacher, or presenter of facts, or things for debate. It’s result is understanding of Jesus or Jehovah and a deeper appreciation which is the whole point of it. Personally, the only things I can ascribe to Robert or have come to know of him, is that he puts in a whole lot of effort at his own expense to bring us these insights; is easily ticked off by people on occasion, but is ‘working on it’ and asks for nothing and rarely mentions himself to the point of invisibility. For a human, I’d say that’s not bad going. But yes, of course we must not do as Moses did on the occasion that cost him the promised land, you are right. But I have yet to see that done, or expected, or given.