But in the case of a dozen or so Chiefs season-ticket holders, money also doesn’t buy entertainment, or at least the kind they’ve come to expect in return for their years of loyalty to Kansas City’s pro football franchise.

These aren’t the kind of fans who hopped on the bandwagon and lucked into some seats in 2003, when the Chiefs were exciting and inspired hope throughout the Midwest. No, these are time-tested, weary fans like Dave (no last names in this column, but the people are real), a Liberty, Missouri resident who’s held his seats for 23 years.

Dave almost gave up his season tickets after 1988 - likely due to the “lean years” the Chiefs suffered through thanks to former head coaches John Mackovic and Frank Gansz – but decided to “give it one more shot” when Carl Peterson took over as General Manager and brought Marty Schottenheimer on board.

Almost 20 years later, Dave is getting a little frustrated.

A SICK STADIUM

Arrowhead Stadium used to be feared around the NFL. You’ve probably heard the story about how Broncos wide receiver Rod Smith almost jumped out of his skin the first time he heard 80,000 fans yell “CHIEFS” at the end of the national anthem. Only problem is, Smith is now all but retired, and in a way, so is the magic of Arrowhead.

Doug, a season-ticket holder since the mid-90s, remembers what those days were like.

“Dynamic and fun,” says the Lee's Summit resident. “All 80,000 fans united in a common bond of fandom against a visiting team.”

Other fans – all of them longtime season-ticket holders – use words like “tingling,” “deafening,” and “goosebumps” to describe Arrowhead’s glory at the height of its power. You get the sense that these raw-throated fans are as much a part of the Chiefs as the names that circle the field on the Ring of Fame.

“The atmosphere just pulling into the parking lot with thousands of others that really cared about the game, was electric,” says one fan. “Once inside the stadium it was loud and crazy.”

And nowadays? Well, the Chiefs are 2-4 at home this season. That’s the worst home record posted by a Kansas City team since Dick Vermeil’s first season, and before that you have to go all the way back to the 80s to find a Chiefs team that was worse at home. The Chiefs have been desperately trying to sell tickets all season long, are now offering discounted upper-reserve seats to teachers, and the threat of the first blackout in over a decade looms.

Yeah, it’s getting bad out there. Just ask those old battlewagons in the stands. Like Jason, an Emporia, Kansas, resident and Chiefs season-ticket holder for 14 years.

“It’s lost its burst,” he says. “It can get loud, but I think the cockiness went away. Before, I had no doubt we were going to win the game at Arrowhead no matter what year it was. Now, I have no idea what to expect.”

But it’s worse. Some fans (like Mike, a Belton, Missouri resident and a season-ticket holder for two years) have even begun to compare the atmosphere at the “new” Arrowhead to that experienced at Royals games, and wait until you hear what Rob, who drives all the way from San Diego to watch his Chiefs, has to say.

Bob, a season-ticket holder for 17 years now, lives in the suburbs of Kansas City. He’s been a Chiefs fan for longer than most of the current players have been alive. He admits, Arrowhead has lost the magic. But why?

It boils down to one word.

“The fans have no confidence and you can sense that,” he says. “It may be loud at times, but the fans are easily taken out of it by lackluster play. There’s booing, empty seats, people leaving early, season-ticket holders selling their seat to opposing fans - Green Bay especially. It was embarrassing the way their fans took over our stadium.”

Of course, there’s the usual list of suspects, too. A boring, predictable offense, a defense that’s good, but not dominant enough to inspire anyone, and too many quiet fans complaining about their rowdy brethren (the preferred moniker for this brand of football fan is “wine and cheese,” in case you’re not up on the lingo). But Brandon, a Des Moines, Iowa resident who’s cheered on the red and gold since their arrival in Missouri, saw something particularly disturbing this year.

“At one game there was obviously many new attendees in the stadium because the entire crowd started the wave while our offense was on the field trying to score,” he laments. “That, to me, showed that many regulars were not in attendance.”

But sometimes it’s about more than the decibel level, a silly stadium tradition or a particular brand of fan. When a stadium begins to die, there’s something else taking place, and we’re not talking about the swing of the wrecking ball that will surely pulverize Arrowhead to the ground in a few decades.

This symptom isn’t tangible. You can’t see it or touch it. Doug has definitely felt it, though.

“Ultimately, it’s about hope for the direction of the team,” he says. “The fan base has lost hope, thus the lethargic stadium.

“No one has any hope that the situation will get better,” says Mike, whose family has held season tickets for 21 years. “Basically, the fans have just completed a 20-year arc with no discernible progress. We started out with Marty with almost no fans, near the bottom of the league, and we are back.”

No hope? Who is crushing your dreams, Chiefs fans?

THE DIAGNOSIS

Russ, who’s been sitting in season-ticket seats for 14 years now, travels three hours each way from Glenwood, Iowa to attend Chiefs games. He was hurt this year when Packers fan exited Arrowhead Stadium chanting “Go, Pack, Go!” and likens hearing the ever-present rhythms of Tony DiPardo’s TD Pack Band to “Groundhog Day.” He’s tired of watching “boring football.”

Clearly, Russ is a disgruntled season-ticket holder of the highest magnitude. Who does he blame for his Arrowhead depression?

Yes, Peterson is a target for many Chiefs fans. In fact, season-ticket holders across the board mentioned Peterson above all others as the source of their disappointment. But it’s fair to say he’s not alone.

“The easy answer is Carl, he should shoulder much of the blame, but I also blame Edwards,” says Jason. “Herm doesn't interact with the crowd and try to get them riled up. When Dick Vermeil used to come onto the field he would smile and wave his hands at the crowd. That showed how much he appreciated us. But I also blame Vermeil to some extent. He turned the Chiefs into an old ball club with little left in reserve for the future. He had five years to win, and didn't much care about the roster once his five years were up.”

It’s not just the men in charge of on-the-field matters, however. Two season-ticket holders singled out the Hunt family for not taking appropriate action, and offensive coordinator Mike Solari took his share of the blame. Clearly, Chiefs fans aren’t happy with a wide variety of high-profile faces that run the Chiefs.

But here’s the good news – Arrowhead may not be dying. Even if it is, there’s a surefire cure.

CHICKEN SOUP FOR SECTION 110

OK, we exaggerated. If Arrowhead was really dying, the lower bowl wouldn’t have been nearly packed to the brim for the Raiders game last weekend. Despite that encouraging scene, everything is far from perfect. Brandon calls Arrowhead’s current state a “coma,” and most of his fellow season-ticket holders agree, at least in spirit.

“It’s not dead yet,” says Rob, “but fans are beginning to lapse into apathy, due to lack of vision and real progress.”

“No,” says Bob, refuting the notion of a dying Arrowhead. “The game day experience is not the same that it once was, though.”

“No, it's just on a hiatus like any other team that looks horrible right now,” says a season-ticket holder who declined to identify himself. “As soon as the Chiefs field a competitive team that’s playoff worthy, the stands will fill back up and Carl can once again raise prices.”

That’s right – season-ticket holders have no problem opening their wallets for a winner. Winning is the pill that can restore Arrowhead to its former vitality. Forget about the coming renovations. They’re nice, say season-ticket holders, but won’t mean squat without a balanced team within.

“Renovations? I don't know,” says Brandon. “It depends on whether personal seat licenses are instituted. If so, the regular fan base of die-hards may not be able to afford to continue to be season-ticket holders. If this happens, wine and cheese crowds will take over for good.”

“Only one thing will help,” says Bob. “Put a competitive team on the field, one that is capable of winning a playoff game or two, and the magic will come back.”

THE INVOICE OF FRUSTRATION

OK, I think the point has been made. Chiefs fans - and we’re talking about the “real fans,” mind you, not the “teachers” who will exchange the quarters and dimes they found in their couch cushions for upper-deck seats this weekend – are fed up. Arrowhead looks green around the gills (even without Packer fans inside) these days, and it might just honestly be better if it puked everything up and got it over with.

Stupid medical analogies aside, just how much happiness CAN money buy? Say, the money that Bob, Rob, Jason, Mike, Shane, Russ and all the other dedicated fans poured into the Arrowhead Stadium coffers over the last 5, 10, 15 and yes, even 23 years?

Well, we’re not going to name dollar amounts. Let’s just say if you put all the money our veteran band of season-ticket holders spent on the Chiefs in 2007 into one big pile, it wouldn’t pay for a used Maybach 62, but it might pay for the retractable electro-transparent partition screen upgrade (and as Dave Barry might say, we are not making this up).

What did that money buy them? Did the scattered, dozen or so fans that we’ve just profiled get their money’s worth this year?

“No,” says Doug.

“Not even close,” says Brandon.

“Not when I must pay full price for pre-season tickets and can't even give them away,” says Dave. “The greed of the Chiefs is getting significantly worse in every aspect of fan appreciation.”

“No,” says Shane, “because the Chiefs are losing.”

“No,” say Mike, Bob, Rob, Darrin, and Jason.

“Ah, no,” says Russ (who, by the way, really hates those parking lot attendants, not to mention the Wolfpack Club). “I'll continue to spend though. I've got a certain group of friends that I only get to see on gameday.”

“That's what makes it worth it - friendships with other fans.”

pikesome

11-30-2007, 07:08 AM

No.

Warrior5

11-30-2007, 07:28 AM

It's just sick right now; it'll take at least an off-season to begin recovering.

Otter

11-30-2007, 07:30 AM

It has a nasty tumor named Carl Peterson.

HonestChieffan

11-30-2007, 07:34 AM

A few bandwagon disgruntled folk whine a bit and some dickwad declares Arrowhead is dying? Are you kidding me?

Im always amazed by people. Not sure why, people are people and behaviors are consistant. But anyway, I cannot quite understand our good folks right here in KC.

The Arrowhead and Royals stadiums are world class. Sure we need upgrades..thats underway...but there is no place on earth Id rather watch Football or baseball than our sports complex. Yet we had a bunch of morons clammoring for a new baseball field in freaking downtown....no explaining that.

No place in the NFL compares to Arrowhead for the "game day experience". Its all about the whole deal...the tailgating, the ease of access in and out before and after the game. Its about fans...man KC has great fans...good people, families, people having fun. This so called artical makes us sound like a bunch of Ram fans who have no history tradition or game day experience and who need to play indoors and park in city high rises and streets....Good lord people.

Im as upset as anyone over the record this year. And I dont look forward to next year either. But to declare Arrowhead and the magic is gone?

If you cant deal with it and you have to have a winner every single game and every single year...you are a sad excuse for a Chiefs fan.

I may be a minority but for me, I feel so fortunate and so lucky to have what we have in KC.

C-Mac

11-30-2007, 07:35 AM

Decent article this time.

stevieray

11-30-2007, 07:40 AM

If you cant deal with it and you have to have a winner every single game and every single year...you are a sad excuse for a Chiefs fan.

Self-entitlement is a great motivator.

Mecca

11-30-2007, 07:44 AM

No homefield, no stadium, no fans are going to save a bad team from being what they are.

But I also don't blame people for not buying tickets now, or deciding to do something else. The Chiefs charge ridiculous ticket prices for this market when you consider they are up there with the big markets of the league in prices...

When they field a crappy sub par product not going out there doesn't make you a fairweather fan. As much as they charge they should put good teams on the field to justify it.

HonestChieffan

11-30-2007, 07:49 AM

If it was free some folks would bitch. Its still a bargain compared to many places.

Ugly Duck

11-30-2007, 07:56 AM

It may be that the new generation of fans is a different animal. Usta be, even with empty seats, not one one fan in the stands would ever boo the Silver & Black - no matter what the reason. It would be heresy most foul. Past few years the boo's have rained down. Teams are just better with the 12th man, but he don't show up no mo....

BigRedChief

11-30-2007, 08:01 AM

It may be that the new generation of fans is a different animal. Usta be, even with empty seats, not one one fan in the stands would ever boo the Silver & Black - no matter what the reason. It would be heresy most foul. Past few years the boo's have rained down. Teams are just better with the 12th man, but he don't show up no mo....
Yep, use to be that way at Arrowhead. You just didn't boo your team. I think it changed when our defense became really pathetic in 2001.

Mecca

11-30-2007, 08:03 AM

If it was free some folks would bitch. Its still a bargain compared to many places.

It's really not...the Chiefs have prices comparable to the Giants.....teams more in line with the Chiefs market wise, like say the Colts and Bills charge far less, and have 20 dollar seat sections.

The Chiefs charge more then the Cowboys.......that's a bit ridiculous.

Nzoner

11-30-2007, 08:31 AM

OK, I think the point has been made. Chiefs fans - and we’re talking about the “real fans,” mind you, not the “teachers” who will exchange the quarters and dimes they found in their couch cushions for upper-deck seats this weekend – are fed up.

WTF is that about,that sounds like something Carl might say.

Bugeater

11-30-2007, 08:31 AM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2576495
Average ticket prices charged for 2006 NFL games at the 32 home sites, according to the Team Marketing Report:
New England $90.89
Washington $79.13
Chicago $77.78 N.Y.
Giants $76.59
N.Y. Jets $74.96
Minnesota $71.32
Philadelphia $69.00
Denver $68.55
Tampa Bay $67.97
Kansas City $67.33
Dallas $66.12
St. Louis $63.71
San Francisco $63.70
San Diego $62.82
NFL Average $62.38
Oakland $62.23
altimore $62.01
Cincinnati $60.85
Carolina $60.44
Atlanta $60.34
Indianapolis $60.06
Miami $59.35
Pittsburgh $59.19
Green Bay $58.39
Houston $56.97
Detroit $56.90
New Orleans $54.86
Arizona $51.32
Seattle $50.46
Cleveland $48.79
Tennessee $47.82
Jacksonville $45.08
Buffalo $41.29
That's a bit surprising that we're that high on the list, I didn't think ticket prices were that out of line. The real crimes are, IMO, is having to pay $25 or whatever it is now to park and that STHs get stuck paying full price for preseason games. I'm also surprised to see the Jets and Vikings that high on the list, the Jets don't even have their own stadium for chrissakes. I suppose the Vikes might be that high because they can't gouge anyone for parking so they have to make up for that somehow.

BigRedChief

11-30-2007, 08:32 AM

The Chiefs charge more then the Cowboys.......that's a bit ridiculous.
Welll you know the Boys are worth $1 billion and the Chiefs only worth $960 million so they have to make it up somehow.

BigRedChief

11-30-2007, 08:33 AM

I'm also surprised to see the Jets and Vikings that high on the list, the Jets don't even have their own stadium for chrissakes. I suppose the Vikes might be that high because they can't gouge anyone for parking so they have to make up for that somehow.
The Jets have a huge waiting list for tickets. They can gouge and get away with it.

Nzoner

11-30-2007, 08:34 AM

The Jets have a huge waiting list for tickets. They can gouge and get away with it.

Herm leaving will do that for a franchise :)

kepp

11-30-2007, 08:36 AM

Dying? No. I prefer to think of it as cryogenic suspension until a cure can be found for Carl.

Dartgod

11-30-2007, 08:41 AM

No.

Quit looking for excuses. This team sucks. Its as simple as that.
Excuses for what? I think the general concensus among the interviewees was that Arrowhead was not dying, but that they are getting fed up with Carl putting a crappy product on the field.

Pretty much just what you said.

HonestChieffan

11-30-2007, 08:43 AM

Dont forget to add the xtras...St Louis has that huge Seat right charge thing

dirk digler

11-30-2007, 08:53 AM

Excuses for what? I think the general concensus among the interviewees was that Arrowhead was not dying, but that they are getting fed up with Carl putting a crappy product on the field.

Pretty much just what you said.

I agree.

Good article Clayton please forward it to Clark Hunt maybe he will have the balls to clean house.

Just to beat a dead horse, 20 of those franchises have been to Super Bowls since Carl has run the show, and 13 of them charge lower ticket prices than the Chiefs.

Mecca

11-30-2007, 08:54 AM

I agree.

Good article Clayton please forward it to Clark Hunt maybe he will have the balls to clean house.

Are you kidding!! We'd rather be a classy organization that doesn't win.

dirk digler

11-30-2007, 08:58 AM

Are you kidding!! We'd rather be a classy organization that doesn't win.

I don't consider the Chiefs a really classy organization.

Mecca

11-30-2007, 08:59 AM

I don't consider the Chiefs a really classy organization.

You should have a convo with some of the other posters here......I'm probably sure you know who they are. Who say things like "Oh god no I wouldn't wanna be like the Cowboys we have class" and that sorta thing.

Nzoner

11-30-2007, 09:02 AM

You should have a convo with some of the other posters here......I'm probably sure you know who they are. Who say things like "Oh god no I wouldn't wanna be like the Cowboys we have class" and that sorta thing.

Class or not I'd love to have an owner that cared enough about winning that he comes down to the sideline to cheer his team on.

Reerun_KC

11-30-2007, 09:03 AM

You should have a convo with some of the other posters here......I'm probably sure you know who they are. Who say things like "Oh god no I wouldn't wanna be like the Cowboys we have class" and that sorta thing.
Um? Cowboys celebrate Superbowls, We strive for mediocrity...

Who has class? Sure isnt Carl and Co.

Fish

11-30-2007, 09:06 AM

Class or not I'd love to have an owner that cared enough about winning that he comes down to the sideline to cheer his team on.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Wouldn't that be a step in the right direction. Imagine what a little of that would do for moral? Just a walk down the sideline clapping, cheering on the team and the crowd....

dirk digler

11-30-2007, 09:07 AM

You should have a convo with some of the other posters here......I'm probably sure you know who they are. Who say things like "Oh god no I wouldn't wanna be like the Cowboys we have class" and that sorta thing.

In the early 90's this was a class organization and Lamar would come down to the sidelines and cheer sometimes. It seems the older he got and the less involved he was the more things seemed to go downhill.

Otter

11-30-2007, 09:07 AM

That's a bit surprising that we're that high on the list, I didn't think ticket prices were that out of line. The real crimes are, IMO, is having to pay $25 or whatever it is now to park and that STHs get stuck paying full price for preseason games. I'm also surprised to see the Jets and Vikings that high on the list, the Jets don't even have their own stadium for chrissakes. I suppose the Vikes might be that high because they can't gouge anyone for parking so they have to make up for that somehow.

Never been to Vikings Stadium, how does their parking work?

Nzoner

11-30-2007, 09:10 AM

Never been to Vikings Stadium, how does their parking work?

The Metrodome is right in downtown,you have to feed the city meters on gameday or find a private lot to park in.

FringeNC

11-30-2007, 09:11 AM

Factoring in cost of living differences, Chiefs' ticket prices have to be about the highest in the country. Then throw in the fact that we don't win any playoff games....and WOW.

Chiefs' fans are to blame for the high prices, though. All teams charge the most they can get away with, and evidently KC fans are satisfied paying top dollar for an inferior quality product.

BigRedChief

11-30-2007, 09:12 AM

I don't consider the Chiefs a really classy organization.
How can you when the arrogance comes from the top and filters down to the whole organization.

What other team would even think of haveing an annoymus writer on its website lash out at the media and its own fans because we doubt the brilliance of the front office?

blueballs

11-30-2007, 09:13 AM

If Arrowhead dies
Warpaint Illustrated goes first
not all bad news

Nzoner

11-30-2007, 09:13 AM

How can you when the arrogance comes from the top and filters down to the whole organization.

What other team would even think of haveing an annoymus writer on its website lash out at the media and its own fans because we doubt the brilliance of the front office?

Don't forget the "Sounds like a plan" e-mail that one of our planeteers got.

Mecca

11-30-2007, 09:16 AM

How about the fact that the players are treated by the fans here like they are gods and have won multiple Superbowls...and the fact that the organization namely Carl acts that way.

People like Boomer Grigsby have radio shows in this town, this team and it's players are treated far better than this city than most would treat it for what it's been.

KCChiefsFan88

11-30-2007, 09:18 AM

By
GoChiefs
Warpaint Illustrated

Excellent article.

Reerun_KC

11-30-2007, 09:19 AM

How about the fact that the players are treated by the fans here like they are gods and have won multiple Superbowls...and the fact that the organization namely Carl acts that way.

People like Boomer Grigsby have radio shows in this town, this team and it's players are treated far better than this city than most would treat it for what it's been.

And produces far less, than others as well....

dirk digler

11-30-2007, 09:20 AM

How can you when the arrogance comes from the top and filters down to the whole organization.

What other team would even think of haveing an annoymus writer on its website lash out at the media and its own fans because we doubt the brilliance of the front office?

I agree

Dartgod

11-30-2007, 09:21 AM

Don't forget the "Sounds like a plan" e-mail that one of our planeteers got.
What was this about?

DJJasonp

11-30-2007, 09:23 AM

I was a season ticket holder prior to Montana and Allen coming to KC....I moved to san diego in '97...but since then, I've made 4-5 trips back to Arrowhead to watch games....here's my take on where Arrowhead was at it's highest (the Bills monday night football game in 92???)...to where we are now...(I attended the JAX game this year)

1) The shtick is getting old. What I mean by that is just about everything. KC Wolf's intro...the TD pack band...the whole bit. I think that may just be a by-product of years and years of promises from Carl...but no playoff wins or super bowls....not sure. But it's just not the same....I think the pre-game festivities need an overhaul...the music....something.

2) Fans have gotten smarter and more realistic about our team. Quite frankly, we're not believing the propoganda from our fearless leaders anymore. This has been perpetuating ever since the loss to the colts at arrowhead in the playoffs (the vermeil/robinson loss).

3) A new breed of season ticket holders. I think there are a significant amount of season ticket holders who have bought tickets as an investment....and only go to games that are really important or hyped. When I was a season ticket holder....I wouldnt have sold my tickets for the world.....but now you've got brokers all over the place with thousands of tickets for sale....how does that happen?

4) The product. Quite frankly, the product is unappealing and boring. Edwards and company have made this team the most unwatchable team in the NFL. After our Indy playoff loss last year...the NFL took notice of what was sure to be "more to come" and gave the chiefs zero national games this year....cant say I blame them.

5) Carl Peterson. Wow...where to start? From ticket prices, beer prices, parking....the talent (or lack thereof) on the field....upgrade policies....LACK OF DIRECTION and lack of leadership (who fires their coach over the internet???).

6) The defense. A big part of the decay of the "arrowhead experience" falls on the defense. When we had DT, Smith, Carter, etc.....we felt like we could win any game...regardless of our QB, WR's, etc. We got close to that same arrogance when our offense was on a roll in the early 2000's....but you know the end result of that story (another 13-3 season and home playoff loss).

Just my 2 cents. I hope Carl goes away and someone can inject some fresh blood into this organization because it has gotten real stale. And if you were looking for excitement and innovation, etc....Herman Edwards was not the answer (although he's a good evaluator of talent...and coaching players techniques...he's a horrible game-planner, clock mgmt, etc. etc.)

Starts at the top....we need a new regime.

Dartgod

11-30-2007, 09:25 AM

All teams charge the most they can get away with...
Not necessarily. The Packers have a season ticket waiting list of 57,000+ and it would take 30 years to get seats if you were to put your name on it now. Their average ticket price is nearly $10 less than ours.

I know thats just one example, but I'm not aware of the ticket demand for other teams.

blueballs

11-30-2007, 09:25 AM

Keep ****ing Doubting Bobby Sippio

Nzoner

11-30-2007, 09:26 AM

What was this about?

Can't remember who but read a post here where someone had sent an e-mail to Arrowhead about giving their tickets up and was complaining about the team etc and got a reply e-mail that read...Sounds like a plan.

Mecca

11-30-2007, 09:28 AM

Change the pregame stuff and all that......Right, we're lucky if we get any music that was made after 1987 out there.

BigRedChief

11-30-2007, 09:29 AM

Not necessarily. The Packers have a season ticket waiting list of 57,000+ and it would take 30 years to get seats if you were to put your name on it now. Their average ticket price is nearly $10 less than ours.

I know thats just one example, but I'm not aware of the ticket demand for other teams.Glad to be of service. Top NFL waiting lists from forbes.com
http://www.forbes.com/sport/2007/09/07/nfl-football-tickets-forbeslife-cx_ls_0907tickets.html

Reerun_KC

11-30-2007, 09:31 AM

I was a season ticket holder prior to Montana and Allen coming to KC....I moved to san diego in '97...but since then, I've made 4-5 trips back to Arrowhead to watch games....here's my take on where Arrowhead was at it's highest (the Bills monday night football game in 92???)...to where we are now...(I attended the JAX game this year)

1) The shtick is getting old. What I mean by that is just about everything. KC Wolf's intro...the TD pack band...the whole bit. I think that may just be a by-product of years and years of promises from Carl...but no playoff wins or super bowls....not sure. But it's just not the same....I think the pre-game festivities need an overhaul...the music....something.

2) Fans have gotten smarter and more realistic about our team. Quite frankly, we're not believing the propoganda from our fearless leaders anymore. This has been perpetuating ever since the loss to the colts at arrowhead in the playoffs (the vermeil/robinson loss).

3) A new breed of season ticket holders. I think there are a significant amount of season ticket holders who have bought tickets as an investment....and only go to games that are really important or hyped. When I was a season ticket holder....I wouldnt have sold my tickets for the world.....but now you've got brokers all over the place with thousands of tickets for sale....how does that happen?

4) The product. Quite frankly, the product is unappealing and boring. Edwards and company have made this team the most unwatchable team in the NFL. After our Indy playoff loss last year...the NFL took notice of what was sure to be "more to come" and gave the chiefs zero national games this year....cant say I blame them.

5) Carl Peterson. Wow...where to start? From ticket prices, beer prices, parking....the talent (or lack thereof) on the field....upgrade policies....LACK OF DIRECTION and lack of leadership (who fires their coach over the internet???).

6) The defense. A big part of the decay of the "arrowhead experience" falls on the defense. When we had DT, Smith, Carter, etc.....we felt like we could win any game...regardless of our QB, WR's, etc. We got close to that same arrogance when our offense was on a roll in the early 2000's....but you know the end result of that story (another 13-3 season and home playoff loss).

Just my 2 cents. I hope Carl goes away and someone can inject some fresh blood into this organization because it has gotten real stale. And if you were looking for excitement and innovation, etc....Herman Edwards was not the answer (although he's a good evaluator of talent...and coaching players techniques...he's a horrible game-planner, clock mgmt, etc. etc.)

Starts at the top....we need a new regime.

that is a great post!

BigRedChief

11-30-2007, 09:32 AM

Change the pregame stuff and all that......Right, we're lucky if we get any music that was made after 1987 out there.It is the lamest most conservative pre-game in the NFL. And its stayed that way because the fans are fired up so no need to change the pre-game to help get fans up for the game.

stevieray

11-30-2007, 09:35 AM

It is the lamest most conservative pre-game in the NFL. And its stayed that way because the fans are fired up so no need to change the pre-game to help get fans up for the game.

But I also blame Vermeil to some extent. He turned the Chiefs into an old ball club with little left in reserve for the future. He had five years to win, and didn't much care about the roster once his five years were up.

:spock: This is one of the dumbest quotes I've read in days. Why in the hell would a coach care about what he leaves for his replacement? A coach's job in the modern NFL is to put together a staff and a roster to WIN NOW. In this day & age it is possible to turn a team around in two seasons... go from worst to first. The days of slow build for the future, i.e. "five year plans", are long gone. It's 2007, not 1987. Welcome to the modern-day NFL.

Besides, the GM, who apparently has tenure in KC, should have prepared for the contingency as it approached. The FANS could see the writing on the wall (pertaining to the OL - Roaf & Shields nearing retirement).

The Chiefs care about ONE thing: butts in the seats. Everything else is ancillary. Sure, they want to win, but win enough to fill the stadium. The goal is fulfilled, whether we are a legit contender or not.

I think it's for the kids...
Hey, you know a lot of times we are sharing a jaggerbomb right before we go in at the same time. Both of us usually skip that pre-game crap. It's the same exact thing we have been seeing since 1994.

Better to stay out in the lot and tailgate and have fun and get to your seat just before kickoff than watch that crap over and over.

BigRedChief

11-30-2007, 09:40 AM

No just the end of Arrowhead as we knew it....It will be re-born. The fans passion is still there. It's just been sapped out by King Carl. It will be re-fueled by a new front office.

xbarretx

11-30-2007, 09:42 AM

regardless of what you belief, it is a good article that makes valid points (or at least points them out)

regardless, ill be buying my season tickets this year or next.

xbarretx

11-30-2007, 09:42 AM

It will be re-born. The fans passion is still there. It's just been sapped out by King Carl. It will be re-fueled by a new front office.

QFT my friend

pikesome

11-30-2007, 09:43 AM

No just the end of Arrowhead as we knew it....

I think it's just a low spot in the franchise. I do think it'll get better, probably sooner than latter. Existing frustrations combined with the wild swing from "Big O and No D" to "Better D and No O" make it seem worse. Even if someone is a Herm fan, they'd have to admit that his style maybe wasn't the best choice to follow DV from a fan perspective.

Dartgod

11-30-2007, 09:44 AM

Glad to be of service. Top NFL waiting lists from forbes.com
http://www.forbes.com/sport/2007/09/07/nfl-football-tickets-forbeslife-cx_ls_0907tickets.html
Looks like I was wrong on the Packers waiting list...it's longer than I reported.

This kind of proves what I was saying though. Of the 11 top teams-in size of waiting list for season tickets-five of them have a lower average ticket price than the Chiefs average of $67.33

Or if the Herm led Chiefs win a couple PO games in a row. (Yea, I'm not sure this will happen either but it'd swing fan excitement too)

Reerun_KC

11-30-2007, 09:47 AM

It will be re-born. The fans passion is still there. It's just been sapped out by King Carl. It will be re-fueled by a new front office.
That is correct.

We cant wait for a new front office and coaching staff...

stevieray

11-30-2007, 09:49 AM

the chickens have come home to roost...

...I knew it was bad when hardly anyone showed up for LH's memorial service...

clark is going to have to builld it back up on his own...his dad definitely left him a hill to climb...we don't know enough about clark yet to guage where we are headed...

pikesome

11-30-2007, 09:50 AM

we don't know enough about clark yet to guage where we are headed...

LA?

KCChiefsFan88

11-30-2007, 09:51 AM

This has nothing to do with ticket prices or pre-game festivities, etc.

This has to do with fans becoming fed up with a franchise that hasn't won a playoff game since 1994 and has been treading the waters of medicority for some time now. Fans are bored to death with Herm's lifeless style of football and are sick of the commitment to mediocrity that is led by Dictator Carl.

Until Clark Hunt shows a legit commitment to winning by firing Dictator Carl, fan's apathy will continue to grow.

dirk digler

11-30-2007, 10:04 AM

we don't know enough about clark yet to guage where we are headed...

What he does this off season will speak volumes of where he is headed.

If Carl and Herm are both still here then we know he is all for mediocrity.

HC_Chief

11-30-2007, 10:09 AM

What he does this off season will speak volumes of where he is headed.

If Carl and Herm are both still here then we know he is all for mediocrity.

...or we'll know that he isn't ready to pay them for nothing. Both have 2 years left on their contract. A more realistic termination date would be the end of NEXT season. It's much easier to swallow one year's loss on the books than absorb it x2.

Besides, as long as fans continue to show up for games, Clark won't have a clue re: the restless fanbase. All he will see are attendance numbers. As long as they're high, the fans love the product. True or not is irrelevant... it is the business perception.

HonestChieffan

11-30-2007, 10:10 AM

Thats stupid. What he does this off season will be:

1) done quietly and not in the media..and he wont be waving his own flag like some idiot owners.
2) will not fire carl or herm...Hunt was rasied to respect a mans word and they have contracts through 2009.

When he can and where he can Im saying he will guide and direct but dont expect the guy to be a classless jerk.

Easy 6

11-30-2007, 10:14 AM

The only possible answer is Yes.

Chiefs fans are maybe the most rabid in football, but this many years of futility in a row can kill the spirit of even the most ardent.

People have a right to expect more for their incredibly loyal dollars.

dirk digler

11-30-2007, 10:14 AM

...or we'll know that he isn't ready to pay them for nothing. Both have 2 years left on their contract. A more realistic termination date would be the end of NEXT season. It's much easier to swallow one year's loss on the books than absorb it x2.

Besides, as long as fans continue to show up for games, Clark won't have a clue re: the restless fanbase. All he will see are attendance numbers. As long as they're high, the fans love the product. True or not is irrelevant... it is the business perception.

Good points but this team needs a fresh look and if Clark does it see it now then he never will. This team will not improve while Carl and Herm are here.

It is time to start over but I doubt he will do anything just like his father.

dirk digler

11-30-2007, 10:16 AM

Thats stupid. What he does this off season will be:

1) done quietly and not in the media..and he wont be waving his own flag like some idiot owners.
2) will not fire carl or herm...Hunt was rasied to respect a mans word and they have contracts through 2009.

When he can and where he can Im saying he will guide and direct but dont expect the guy to be a classless jerk.

Yeah it is stupid to fire the GM that hasn't won a playoff game in 14 years and only has been in the playoffs once in 10 years. :rolleyes:

HC_Chief

11-30-2007, 10:20 AM

Good points but this team needs a fresh look and if Clark does it see it now then he never will. This team will not improve while Carl and Herm are here.

It is time to start over but I doubt he will do anything just like his father.

Fact of the matter is the Hunt family does not live here. They don't have the pulse of the fanbase. Why do you think the Red Coaters have been calling season ticket holders recently, asking them why they haven't been going to games?

They're clueless. Ownership is in TX. They see high attendance, high revenues, and voter-approved renovations. The bottom line is fine, and therefore, so is the product.

It takes low attendance/blackouts to get the point across. I, personally, have not spent a PENNY on Chiefs gear/tix, for four years straight. I'm doing my part. ;)

HonestChieffan

11-30-2007, 10:24 AM

Yeah it is stupid to fire the GM that hasn't won a playoff game in 14 years and only has been in the playoffs once in 10 years. :rolleyes:

No...its stupid to fire someone when you have signed a contract that you negotiated and agreed to. Its a old consept...a mans word means something. Id say Young Mr Hunt is as displeased as any fan but has the ethics to know he can best change from the inside and still respect the agreement that he signed. If the guy was to be fired, it should have been done before this contract was done. Thats old news and was not done.

dirk digler

11-30-2007, 10:24 AM

Fact of the matter is the Hunt family does not live here. They don't have the pulse of the fanbase. Why do you think the Red Coaters have been calling season ticket holders recently, asking them why they haven't been going to games?

They're clueless. Ownership is in TX. They see high attendance, high revenues, and voter-approved renovations. The bottom line is fine, and therefore, so is the product.

It takes low attendance/blackouts to get the point across. I, personally, have not spent a PENNY on Chiefs gear/tix, for four years straight. I'm doing my part. ;)

Clark attends every game so I would think he should have some idea if not he is blindly stupid.

Also I can't imagine that Clark doesn't know about the Red Coaters calling STH's.

I bought the Sunday Ticket package again this year this will be my last and I only went to 1 game this year...for free.

dirk digler

11-30-2007, 10:28 AM

No...its stupid to fire someone when you have signed a contract that you negotiated and agreed to. Its a old consept...a mans word means something. Id say Young Mr Hunt is as displeased as any fan but has the ethics to know he can best change from the inside and still respect the agreement that he signed. If the guy was to be fired, it should have been done before this contract was done. Thats old news and was not done.

Your and idiot. Teams don't hold the same standard to players do they? They release them anytime they feel like it contract or no contract. The Chiefs do it all the time.

If you want to keep CP around fine you can move him upstairs until his contract expires but strip his GM title away and hire a real NFL GM.

NFL coaches get fired all the time or quit before their contracts expire you really aren't this stupid are you?

FringeNC

11-30-2007, 10:31 AM

Not necessarily. The Packers have a season ticket waiting list of 57,000+ and it would take 30 years to get seats if you were to put your name on it now. Their average ticket price is nearly $10 less than ours.

I know thats just one example, but I'm not aware of the ticket demand for other teams.

Who owns the Packers?

dirk digler

11-30-2007, 10:32 AM

Who owns the Packers?

The public owns them. They actually have shareholders

Pushead2

11-30-2007, 10:33 AM

**** gochiefs and **** Carl, I really don't know how many times these have to be stated.

siberian khatru

11-30-2007, 10:33 AM

Who owns the Packers?

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

HonestChieffan

11-30-2007, 10:34 AM

sorta kinda....the city owns them but they have shareholders with No voting rights

FringeNC

11-30-2007, 10:34 AM

The public owns them. They actually have shareholders

I thought it was something weird like that. That explains why the tickets are underpriced. My guess is that the season ticket holders and the shareholders have significant overlap.

KC Dan

11-30-2007, 10:39 AM

from the article, "It boils down to one word."
What is the one word?

pikesome

11-30-2007, 10:41 AM

from the article, "It boils down to one word."
What is the one word?

Bird
:rolleyes:

HonestChieffan

11-30-2007, 10:42 AM

Your and idiot. Teams don't hold the same standard to players do they? They release them anytime they feel like it contract or no contract. The Chiefs do it all the time.

If you want to keep CP around fine you can move him upstairs until his contract expires but strip his GM title away and hire a real NFL GM.

NFL coaches get fired all the time or quit before their contracts expire you really aren't this stupid are you?

Sadly you have no clue that explains your lack of any understanding. A players contract and GM's contract are not even close in any way regarding release clauses, renegotiation clauses, and time value.

So while you live i that little classless dream world where you are all powerful and can renig on any agreements you make, thank your lucky stars that there are people with honor and value and who's word means something.

HemiEd

11-30-2007, 10:50 AM

The Chiefs charge more then the Cowboys.......that's a bit ridiculous.

There are few surprises on their. San Francisco is the one that jumps out at me. I would say, the cost of living and income level has to be much higher out there.
Dallas would be similar to KC in that area, I would think.

dirk digler

11-30-2007, 10:51 AM

Sadly you have no clue that explains your lack of any understanding. A players contract and GM's contract are not even close in any way regarding release clauses, renegotiation clauses, and time value.

So while you live i that little classless dream world where you are all powerful and can renig on any agreements you make, thank your lucky stars that there are people with honor and value and who's word means something.

This is the NFL which stands for Not For Long and the NFL is a performance based business and Carl hasn't performed.

Every year at least 10 Head Coaches get shit canned even if they have a contract and this year there is going to be several GM's that will have the same fate. If you don't perform you are gone it is pretty simple.

So I take it if this team went 0-16 for 3 years straight you wouldn't consider firing the GM or Head Coach because they have a 5 yr contract? Is that what you are telling me? If so you are the stupidest person I have ever met.

pikesome

11-30-2007, 10:55 AM

This is the NFL which stands for Not For Long and the NFL is a performance based business and Carl hasn't performed.

Every year at least 10 Head Coaches get shit canned even if they have a contract and this year there is going to be several GM's that will have the same fate. If you don't perform you are gone it is pretty simple.

So I take it if this team went 0-16 for 3 years straight you wouldn't consider firing the GM or Head Coach because they have a contract? Is that what you are telling me? If so you are the stupidest person I have ever met.

I haven't looked but I wonder how much difference turning over staff makes in the end. It seems that personnel decisions (ie players) have a much greater effect. Maybe if I get some chance I'll look up hirings/firings.

However, if we're using personnel as the measure CP would still be in danger, or should have been at times.

dirk digler

11-30-2007, 10:58 AM

I haven't looked but I wonder how much difference turning over staff makes in the end. It seems that personnel decisions (ie players) have a much greater effect. Maybe if I get some chance I'll look up hirings/firings.

However, if we're using personnel as the measure CP would still be in danger, or should have been at times.

In the end all that matters is win and losses and if you go to the SB or not. Nothing else really matters.

pikesome

11-30-2007, 11:01 AM

In the end all that matters is win and losses and if you go to the SB or not. Nothing else really matters.

But I wonder if we'd be thinking of BB's genius without both luck and skill in acquiring players. Or, if Herm was the Pats coach if we'd be talking about his greatness.

Still, you're right. If you're not working on a SB win you've failed that year ultimately.

Adept Havelock

11-30-2007, 11:01 AM

If you cant deal with it and you have to have a winner every single game and every single year...you are a sad excuse for a Chiefs fan.

GFY. I suffered through the 70's and 80's, as have many here. I'm still a fan.

Just one who is pissed off, and refuses to give this franchise any $$ until some changes are made.

Bob Dole

11-30-2007, 11:02 AM

from the article, "It boils down to one word."
What is the one word?

punt

FAX

11-30-2007, 11:05 AM

"Arrowhead looks green around the gills (even without Packer fans inside) these days, and it might just honestly be better if it puked everything up and got it over with."

ROFL ROFL ROFL

Medical analogy?

Anyway, great article Mr. GoChiefs. Very nice.

FAX

KC Dan

11-30-2007, 11:06 AM

punt
Thanks! I needed the laugh this morning...

dirk digler

11-30-2007, 11:07 AM

But I wonder if we'd be thinking of BB's genius without both luck and skill in acquiring players. Or, if Herm was the Pats coach if we'd be talking about his greatness.

Still, you're right. If you're not working on a SB win you've failed that year ultimately.

BB struggled in Cleveland but was widely successful everywhere else he was at. He is one of the greatest coaches ever. Did he luck out drafting Brady probably just as Shanahan was for drafting Terrell Davis. I highly doubt Herm would have been successful with the Pats because he never has been successful anywhere else. Sure he has gone to some playoff games but his teams are way to conservative to go to SB's.

Otter

11-30-2007, 11:08 AM

No...its stupid to fire someone when you have signed a contract that you negotiated and agreed to. Its a old consept...a mans word means something. Id say Young Mr Hunt is as displeased as any fan but has the ethics to know he can best change from the inside and still respect the agreement that he signed. If the guy was to be fired, it should have been done before this contract was done. Thats old news and was not done.

Like firing Gunther over the internet in middle of his contract kinda word that the Chiefs use when it's convenient?

I am still waiting on honestchieffan to answer my question if the Chiefs went 0-16 for 3 years straight should the GM and HC be fired even if they had 5 yr contract?

pikesome

11-30-2007, 11:26 AM

LMAO exactly. Where was the class and the integrity on that?

I am still waiting on honestchieffan to answer my question if the Chiefs went 0-16 for 3 years straight should the GM and HC be fired even if they had 5 yr contract?

They need to be handed a katana for something like that.

Phobia

11-30-2007, 11:45 AM

Great article, Clayton. Probably your best yet. I'm not talking about content either because we're all disgruntled and it's easy to jump on the hate and discontent wagon. I'm talking about the flow of the article and how your arranged the quotes and expounded upon the comments from season ticket holders with editorial of your own. The sarcasm which usually seems forced or overdone coming from you even fit in with the article.

Great, great job.

Now, with regard to ticket prices, the Chiefs should fit into the lower half of the NFL, easily - based on cost of living and median family income in this area. KC is definitely in the lower half of the nation and ticket prices should reflect that - they don't which indicates to me a touch of greed on the part of ownership and/or the management of the team.

I think a top to bottom house-cleaning would do the organization some good, obviously. It's time. It's unfortunate that Chiefs fans may have to wait another 2 seasons for that to happen and even then, it's probably going to be some guy from the old regime given the reins.

Tribal Warfare

11-30-2007, 11:55 AM

They need to be handed a katana for something like that.

Sepiku, would be too honorable way to go for these worms in the FO.

HemiEd

11-30-2007, 12:40 PM

Well done Clayton! It read like a professional wrote it.

Calcountry

11-30-2007, 01:52 PM

Class or not I'd love to have an owner that cared enough about winning that he comes down to the sideline to cheer his team on.There it is there. Jones gives a chit about football, and is probably a bigger fan of the Cowboys than most of the people who go there. Kind of like Buddy Garity on "Friday night lights".

The Hunts won't sell out for this team, then wtf should the fans?

Calcountry

11-30-2007, 01:53 PM

Great article, Clayton. Probably your best yet. I'm not talking about content either because we're all disgruntled and it's easy to jump on the hate and discontent wagon. I'm talking about the flow of the article and how your arranged the quotes and expounded upon the comments from season ticket holders with editorial of your own. The sarcasm which usually seems forced or overdone coming from you even fit in with the article.

Great, great job.

Now, with regard to ticket prices, the Chiefs should fit into the lower half of the NFL, easily - based on cost of living and median family income in this area. KC is definitely in the lower half of the nation and ticket prices should reflect that - they don't which indicates to me a touch of greed on the part of ownership and/or the management of the team.

I think a top to bottom house-cleaning would do the organization some good, obviously. It's time. It's unfortunate that Chiefs fans may have to wait another 2 seasons for that to happen and even then, it's probably going to be some guy from the old regime given the reins.No chit, that was Clayton? The writing style was definitely improved.

KCChiefsFan88

11-30-2007, 02:11 PM

I think a top to bottom house-cleaning would do the organization some good, obviously. It's time. It's unfortunate that Chiefs fans may have to wait another 2 seasons for that to happen and even then, it's probably going to be some guy from the old regime given the reins.

The Chiefs need to blow up the franchise and start from scratch... agreed.

Fans would be willing to go through a LEGIT rebuilding effort (even if it meant a losing season or two), if the rebuilding was done by someone they had faith in (i.e. not Dictator Carl)

Phobia

11-30-2007, 02:38 PM

The Chiefs need to blow up the franchise and start from scratch... agreed.

Fans would be willing to go through a LEGIT rebuilding effort (even if it meant a losing season or two), if the rebuilding was done by someone they had faith in (i.e. not Dictator Carl)

There really should be term limits for GMs. Honestly.

bowener

11-30-2007, 02:51 PM

It has a nasty tumor named Carl Peterson.

Ets notta tuma!

Ok, yes it is. I just wanted to quote Arnold Schwarza**** from Kindergarten Cop... love it.

FAX

11-30-2007, 02:54 PM

There really should be term limits for GMs. Honestly.

And Mods.

FAX

siberian khatru

11-30-2007, 02:56 PM

The Chiefs need to blow up the franchise and start from scratch... agreed.

Fans would be willing to go through a LEGIT rebuilding effort (even if it meant a losing season or two), if the rebuilding was done by someone they had faith in (i.e. not Dictator Carl)

I think that's exactly it. After 18 years, people just don't trust Carl to get it right.

Phobia

11-30-2007, 02:59 PM

And Mods.

FAX
You're actually right. I burnt out on that crap.

Bowser

11-30-2007, 03:02 PM

I think that's exactly it. After 18 years, people just don't trust Carl to get it right.

ANYONE at Arrowhead to get it right. What most people are missing, is that if Carl does take the GM out of his title, his lackey Denny Thum is going to tkae over. What this team needs is to have Clark be more hands-on with the Chiefs than his dad was, and give the entire thing an enema.

Chief Henry

11-30-2007, 03:20 PM

ANYONE at Arrowhead to get it right. What most people are missing, is that if Carl does take the GM out of his title, his lackey Denny Thum is going to tkae over. What this team needs is to have Clark be more hands-on with the Chiefs than his dad was, and give the entire thing an enema.

Thats sad, but true.

kc rush

11-30-2007, 03:58 PM

There are few surprises on their. San Francisco is the one that jumps out at me. I would say, the cost of living and income level has to be much higher out there.
Dallas would be similar to KC in that area, I would think.

I used a couple of cost of living calculators to come up with this. These can be found at the following links:

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/movecalc.asp

http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costofliving/costofliving.html

Basically $1 in earnings in San Fran is equal to 55 cents of earnings in KC, so someone spending $63.70 for a ticket in San Francisco would be equal to someone spending $35.04 in KC. So adjusted for cost of living, a Chiefs ticket is nearly double the cost of a 49ers ticket. Neither calculator had Minneapolis or New Orleans listed, so I couldn’t compare their tickets.

The first number is the average ticket cost that BRC had posted and the last is the ticket cost after a cost of living adjustment.

Look where the Skins play.....they are the team and play in basically a place where 3 states meet. The market size they cover is massive.

Logical

11-30-2007, 10:27 PM

Great article, Clayton. Probably your best yet. I'm not talking about content either because we're all disgruntled and it's easy to jump on the hate and discontent wagon. I'm talking about the flow of the article and how your arranged the quotes and expounded upon the comments from season ticket holders with editorial of your own. The sarcasm which usually seems forced or overdone coming from you even fit in with the article.

Great, great job.

Now, with regard to ticket prices, the Chiefs should fit into the lower half of the NFL, easily - based on cost of living and median family income in this area. KC is definitely in the lower half of the nation and ticket prices should reflect that - they don't which indicates to me a touch of greed on the part of ownership and/or the management of the team.

I think a top to bottom house-cleaning would do the organization some good, obviously. It's time. It's unfortunate that Chiefs fans may have to wait another 2 seasons for that to happen and even then, it's probably going to be some guy from the old regime given the reins.

Clayton let me be one of many to agree with Phil this is possibly your best work. Keep writing you are getting better and it shows.

MOhillbilly

11-30-2007, 10:36 PM

Look where the Skins play.....they are the team and play in basically a place where 3 states meet. The market size they cover is massive.

its nothin like the Arrowhead of last year in terms of rabid fans. i was amazed there wasnt a cloud of smoke and the smell of Q. lots of fights.

KcMizzou

11-30-2007, 10:37 PM

Arrowhead isn't dying... it's just resting.

As soon as the fans have something to be fired up about, Arrowhead will be back as good as ever.

MOhillbilly

11-30-2007, 10:47 PM

Arrowhead isn't dying... it's just resting.

As soon as the fans have something to be fired up about, Arrowhead will be back as good as ever.

the nfl goes in cycles.

Dartgod

11-30-2007, 11:00 PM

Anybody else shocked that the Saints have a 30K waiting list for season tickets?
Yeah. That one surprised me too.

WilliamTheIrish

12-01-2007, 08:48 AM

I think a top to bottom house-cleaning would do the organization some good, obviously. It's time. It's unfortunate that Chiefs fans may have to wait another 2 seasons for that to happen and even then, it's probably going to be some guy from the old regime given the reins.

My biggest fear:You know Carl has a successor hand picked.

Hammock Parties

05-20-2008, 11:09 PM

Hey, season ticket holders who participated in this first article - send me a PM. We're going to follow up.

DT58HOF

05-20-2008, 11:26 PM

Sell the team to Mark Cuban and i will be very very HAPPY!

milkman

05-21-2008, 10:50 AM

Sell the team to Mark Cuban and i will be very very HAPPY!

I'm sorry, how many NBA Championships have the Mavs won again?

Coach

05-21-2008, 11:59 AM

I'm sorry, how many NBA Championships have the Mavs won again?

Zero.

However, how many times have the Mavs made it to the playoffs? How many times did the Mavs either make it to the conference finals or the NBA championship game?

aturnis

05-21-2008, 01:54 PM

Zero.

However, how many times have the Mavs made it to the playoffs? How many times did the Mavs either make it to the conference finals or the NBA championship game?

So you're sayin' there's a chance!

Hammock Parties

05-26-2008, 01:45 PM

Again, season ticket holders who participated in this article - PLEASE send me a PM.

boogblaster

05-26-2008, 02:19 PM

The luster may lack but it will be back ... GO CHIEFS ....

Hammock Parties

05-31-2008, 10:00 AM

Bumping the thread again. So far only two of you have sent me a PM. I would really like to follow up!

J Diddy

05-31-2008, 02:29 PM

Bumping the thread again. So far only two of you have sent me a PM. I would really like to follow up!

the were afraid if they kept pumping you

you'd become rawthroated?

lol

rawthroated?

ROFL

Hammock Parties

06-02-2008, 04:48 PM

Season-ticket holders who appeared in the article! Please send me a PM! Last chance! :(