Egypt’s President Mohamed Mursi, facing street protests over his attempts to push through a new constitution, will soon authorise the armed forces to help police keep order, the state-run newspaper al-Ahram reported on Saturday.

The daily said the cabinet had approved a legal measure under which the armed forces would help “maintain security and protect vital state institutions” and would be given powers of arrest, but did not say when it would be issued.

However, that assumes that Morsi and his cabinet have control over the military. The military responded to Morsi’s move with a cryptic message that the country needs “dialogue,” perhaps sending a warning shot across Morsi’s bow:

Egypt’s military has warned of ‘disastrous consequences’ if the political crisis gripping the country is not resolved through dialogue.

The military said in a statement read on state TV on Saturday that serious dialogue is the “best and only” way to overcome the nation’s deepening political dispute.

That sounds suspiciously like, “You’re on your own, pal.” Morsi set off this conflagration with his decision to put himself and his government above the judiciary and legislature, clearly not the kind of government Egyptians had demanded when they marched on Hosni Mubarak.

The military sided with the people then, allowing them to demonstrate and push Mubarak out of office. Since that time, Morsi has tried to ensure the loyalty of the army by installing commanders favorable to the Muslim Brotherhood, and had been seen as succeeding in that effort. But that had yet to be tested in the crucible of a popular revolt, and now Morsi faces the same question every struggling dictator ends up asking: Is the military loyal enough to me to shoot civilians in the streets?

The Iranian mullahs got an affirmative answer to that question in the summer of 2009, but the mullahs had been in power for a generation, too. Mubarak had been in power almost as long, and got a much different answer in 2011. This response from the Egyptian military makes it sound like Morsi might get the same answer as Mubarak — and that he’s treading on very thin ice now.

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Great foreign policy . . . help ensure the installation of Mubarak light. The current state department is a pathetic loser. I know, they’re only implementing Obama’s policies but that just makes them even more pathetic losers.

Yep, I miss him. I also miss an American media that at least had a notion of the obligation of objectivity. We are living in the dark with only information packaged by the main stream in the manner they want us to see it, biased towards their goals.

There is no serious critique of this man’s many failures. His Arab Spring has literally set the Middle East on fire in a manner that dwarf the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan insofar as regional instability.

Hey libs, remember all those civilains you bemoaned George Bush causing to die? They’re actually in graves in Syria and your boy stoked that one up.

When are you going to start painting your anti-war signs again? When are you going to take to the streets?> You know, before your military (that you say you were protesting to protect) deploys one more boot on the ground?

They may have replaced the leadership with MB stooges but the person pulling the trigger may not be. The only way Communism or Theocracy is maintained is by the bullet and it will in the end be it real downfall.

Like Iran, the Syrians revolted with an expectation the West (US) would come to their aid. Many US Administrations made it clear in no uncertain terms that we were almost spring loaded to help the youth in Iran break from their oppressive government. Oops, they tried it during obama’s first term. Too bad, so sad Neda Agha-Soltan’s still dead.

But, his hands are clean because you know, he didn’t do anything.

Fast forward to Syria after Egypt, Libya and Bahrain all got egged into taking up ams against their governments and falling into utter disarray because the obama administration was afraid of (or supported) radical Islam; take your pick.

Now they’ve actively supplied the Syrian rebels in aid and arms and talked tough to Assad’s government, erm, right up to not supporting them much and pulling back from threats to the Syrian government because obama is scared shitless of Russia. (We miss you too, Ronny) What we are left with is a rebel force increasingly turning to AQ and radical Islam. Several coalitions of rebels have just recently stated that because the US and the West is turning their back on them, they’ll turn their back on the West. We will replace a dictator with another radical Muslim terrorist state.

I’m not convinced that regardless of the outcome these folks won’t have a dictator as the head of their country in a year. Can we give them Obama, he likes to run every aspect of people’s lives and they seem very comfortable with that.

I’m not convinced that regardless of the outcome these folks won’t have a dictator as the head of their country in a year. Can we give them Obama, he likes to run every aspect of people’s lives and they seem very comfortable with that.

Cindy Munford on December 8, 2012 at 11:10 AM

Should that be a trade for a Leader that supports Liberty to be named later or just a gift to the people’s of Egypt?

I’m all for that kind of generosity, but we could try to get something in return – maybe some Egyptian beer?

The Egyptian Army, even after Mubarak, is still composed of citizen soldiers from all over Egypt, all integrated into all types of units. No “tribal” distinctions as was the case in Libya.

A good thing or bad thing?

Well, ever since the Suez War back in 1956, the Egyptian military has been a glue of sorts that bound the nation together. Even in defeat (the various wars with Israel) the individual soldiers and even lower rank officers were not blamed, not one bit. Up until Mubarak left, the Army was seen as a cut above the rest, serving the nation. Essentially “saving” the nation.

The cops, on the other hand, and now this Morsi “presidential guard” not so much.

I’d look for a Colonel-inspired revolt, a coup, long before I’d see the Egyptian Army wholesale turn against the very people it is an integral part of.

Egypt’s President Mohamed Mursi, facing street protests over his attempts to push through a new constitution, will soon authorise the armed forces to help police keep order, the state-run newspaper al-Ahram reported on Saturday.

The daily said the cabinet had approved a legal measure under which the armed forces would help “maintain security and protect vital state institutions” and would be given powers of arrest, but did not say when it would be issued

In the war in Iraq, our military forces expended approximately 70 million rounds per year. In March DHS ordered 750 million rounds of hollow point ammunition. It then turned around and ordered an additional 750 million rounds of miscellaneous bullets including some that are capable of penetrating walls. This is enough ammunition to empty five rounds into the body of every living American citizen. Is this something we and the Congress should be concerned about? What’s the plan that requires so many dead Americans, even during times of civil unrest? Has Congress and the Administration vetted the plan in public. http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-08-20/major-general-why-are-domestic-government-agencies-purchashing-enough-lethal-

I think the army is also aware that Morsi has intentions of usng hem against Israel. He believes Israel’s difficulties dealing with Hamas and Hezbollah demonstrates their militay’s weakness. The Egyptian military knows that the IDF can obliterate a conventional military opponent in the blink of an eye and they have the scars to prove it. The don’t want to go to war with Israel again, especially as there is no credible ally to help as Syria and Jordan had done in the past. They may hold back their help to Morsi until they are absolutely assured he has no plans to use the army against Israel.

The Social Security Administration (SSA) confirms that it is purchasing 174 thousand rounds of hollow point bullets to be delivered to 41 locations in major cities across the U.S.

***
Those against whom the hollow point bullets are to be used — those causing the civil unrest — must be American citizens; since the SSA has never been used overseas to help foreign countries maintain control of their citizens.

What would be the target of these 174, 000 rounds of hollow point bullets? It can’t simply be to control demonstrators or rioters. Hollow point bullets are so lethal that the Geneva Convention does not allow their use on the battle field in time of war. Hollow point bullets don’t just stop or hurt people, they penetrate the body, spread out, fragment and cause maximum damage to the body’s organs. Death often follows.

Those against whom the hollow point bullets are to be used — those causing the civil unrest — must be American citizens; since the SSA has never been used overseas to help foreign countries maintain control of their citizens.

What would be the target of these 174, 000 rounds of hollow point bullets? It can’t simply be to control demonstrators or rioters. Hollow point bullets are so lethal that the Geneva Convention does not allow their use on the battle field in time of war. Hollow point bullets don’t just stop or hurt people, they penetrate the body, spread out, fragment and cause maximum damage to the body’s organs. Death often follows.

Hollow point bullets are so lethal that the Geneva Convention does not allow their use on the battle field in time of war. Hollow point bullets don’t just stop or hurt people, they penetrate the body, spread out, fragment and cause maximum damage to the body’s organs. Death often follows.

Tangent: There is so much fail in this it kind of undermines my faith in zero hedge.

HPs are standard issue for law enforcement for good reasons you can look up for yourself. People really need to stop it with the ‘killer bullet’ meme – this was hashed out decades ago when the NYPD went to HPs.

As for the RFP, it is an RFP.

As for the Geneva Conventions, that is incorrect. The Hague Convention of 1899 banned expanding projectiles for small arms. With advances in technology that ban really isn’t particularly relevant in terms of effectiveness.

There’s some serious tin foil ass-hattery around all this. The giveaway is a) people not understanding what a JHP is and b) not understanding government RFPs.

“I truly believe that the day I’m inaugurated, not only the country looks at itself differently, but the world looks at America differently…If I’m reaching out to the Muslim world they understand that I’ve lived in a Muslim country and I may be a Christian, but I also understand their point of view…My sister is half-Indonesian. I traveled there all the way through my college years. And so I’m intimately concerned with what happens in these countries and the cultures and perspective these folks have. And those are powerful tools for us to be able to reach out to the world…then I think the world will have confidence that I am listening to them and that our future and our security is tied up with our ability to work with other countries in the world that will ultimately makes us safer…”

When an RFP goes out it is not a purchase order it is a request for organizations/manufacturers to respond back with particulars to fill that proposal. i.e. step one in the bidding process. The question still is why do these agencies need to have commitments from manufacturers to fill ammunition orders of that magnitude?

Since I have progeny that works for DHS (Border Patrol) I can understand some of the DHS RFP. 1.5 billion rounds though seems an order or 2 of magnitude to large.

If you are a large organization putting out an RFP you want to ensure a range of things that are spelt out as your critical success factors.

In this case they could be:

Financial Stability – Is the company financially stable and likely to remain so?
Geo political stability – Is this company foreign or heavily invested in foreign assets etc.
Capacity – Can thee company flex to meet changing capacity
Quality Control
Sourcing
Headline costs.

If you’re the government you’d put out an RFP for 1.5 billion JHPs, in the same way that you’d put out an RFP for 250,000 SUVs…

As for which costs more to procure (JHP vs FMJ)- at these volumes it is a wash.

There’s some serious tin foil ass-hattery around all this. The giveaway is a) people not understanding what a JHP is and b) not understanding government RFPs.

CorporatePiggy on December 8, 2012 at 12:33 PM

When your government arms drug lords and terrorists, get’s it’s own citizens killed doing so, covers up and lies about doing so, the question for any and every sane rational individual ceases to be, “Am I paranoid” and becomes, “Am I paranoid enough”.

When your government arms drug lords and terrorists, get’s it’s own citizens killed doing so, covers up and lies about doing so, the question for any and every sane rational individual ceases to be, “Am I paranoid” and becomes, “Am I paranoid enough”.

SWalker on December 8, 2012 at 1:05 PM

The rule should be that once they’ve lied like that they are no longer trustworthy.

They can stow the ‘trust us’ meme given the corruption and lies they’ve perpetrated so far.

But that had yet to be tested in the crucible of a popular revolt, and now Morsi faces the same question every struggling dictator ends up asking: Is the military loyal enough to me to shoot civilians in the streets?

Mubarak had his military. However, the nation is majority islamist. While there are large numbers of non islamist protesting, they are a minority

If the military backs off from ‘crowd control’ they will be very lonely in that country. Saddam Hussein’s loyal soldiers had similar problem

The breaking point will come when the soldiers decide they want their families to live in Egypt. If so, they will either have to resign, or do crowd control. In the long run, they will probably have to get religion big time to make up for this period of ‘disloyalty’ to the new islamists

The biggest question is: do the new islamists fear Obama would cut off their money chain if they took down the minority?

I know what I would think. If Obama was willing to fund the Muslim Brotherhood, and move to rehabilitate their world reputation, I would guess he would not turn his money laden back on the Brotherhood, should the Brotherhood mount a cleanup operation of dissidents. A couple of tut-tuts and the Bammer would re start the money wagon, to ‘help the children’.

The rule should be that once they’ve lied like that they are no longer trustworthy.

They can stow the ‘trust us’ meme given the corruption and lies they’ve perpetrated so far.

Galt2009 on December 8, 2012 at 1:15 PM

Very true, now ask yourself this. IF this were the Sarah Palin administration, would the Fifth Column Treasonous Media or the Democrats have given her administration the pass they have given the Obama administration? Would they be asking the very same questions of the governments purchase of more ammunition for DHS and SSA then the US Military asks for to fight 2 on going conflicts?

However, the nation is majority islamist.
entagor on December 8, 2012 at 1:21 PM

No, but the Islamists MB and Salaafists are organized. They have had community organizers for a long time, in the same way Hamas and Hezbollah have. In fact the community organizer element might be why Barky is such a fawning fan (j/k…maybe).

The US demanded an instant election and didn’t allow an opposition to radical Islam to organize itself. These riots are mostly composed of people who are not Islamists and certainly didn’t want to change out on Tyrant for another who claims Allah is his only master.

The rule should be that once they’ve lied like that they are no longer trustworthy.

They can stow the ‘trust us’ meme given the corruption and lies they’ve perpetrated so far.

Galt2009 on December 8, 2012 at 1:15 PM

Very true, now ask yourself this. IF this were the Sarah Palin administration, would the Fifth Column Treasonous Media or the Democrats have given her administration the pass they have given the Obama administration? Would they be asking the very same questions of the governments purchase of more ammunition for DHS and SSA then the US Military asks for to fight 2 on going conflicts?

SWalker on December 8, 2012 at 1:24 PM

Hahahahahaha!…… excuse me.

I think most people know the answer to that question.

Sandy should be Obama’s Katrina – it wasn’t.

Holder should have been run out on a rail for supplying Guns to drug cartel gangsters

Obama should be impeached over Benghazigate.

Teflon doesn’t have nutthin on the dear liar and his ability to escape blame for the economy, the Middle East turmoil, and all the corruption within his regime.

This is a question Obama has asked himself. I believe that he’s planning accordingly.

disa on December 8, 2012 at 10:11 AM

Don’t quote me on this but I’m pretty sure all the Joint Chiefs are now Obama appointees, and probably the bulk of all three and four stars, and I think it’s safe to say their main qualification wasn’t being Warrior Generals as yet again demonstrated by the Silence of the Sheeples, re Benghazi.

Obama’s silence on Morsi’s power grab is a sign of acceptance..he is once again not siding with protesters again tyrants..he was all for for the Arab Spring orginally because he know the Muslim Brotherhood was the most powerful, organized political party and he knew they would go into power after Mubarak..now because he supports them fully he will stay silent..not talk about freedom of religion and minorities rights..that stuff no longer matters..what a disgrace of an ‘american’ he is..and i still have doubts he is a natural born american also

The Egyptian military never really sided with “the people” (whatever that means in a country like Egypt). They’re looking out for themselves, and they’ve decided that their interests and the protester’s interests coincide. That may seem like a distinction without a difference now, but it will matter a lot going forward.

As to whether or not they’ll shoot the protesters; I say if they wouldn’t do it do Mubarak, they sure as hell won’t do it for Morsi.