Debating Common: O’Reilly vs Jon Stewart

This went better than I thought. However, I’m not sure there was a true winner in this debate. Stewart was being intellectually dishonest when it came to what Common meant with the song and the visit to Cuba. It’s clear there’s more to this for Common than him just thinking someone was wrongfully convicted. O’Reilly was just O’Reilly. He made some strong points but I didn’t feel he ever strongly won a point.

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I must admit that I like John Stewart. I certainly don’t agree with him on many issues but he is a good debater. Plus lets face it he is a funny guy. He does not seem to take himself to seriously as well which to me is a good thing.

Santina35

Please John Stewart takes himself very seriously, thinks he’s the national media arbitrator of what’s right and wrong, and O’Reilly’s a hack , who doesn’t want to take it too hard to the Stewart’s of the world because he still wants to get invited to all the New York , LA cocktail parties, look what the media and HollyWood did to Trump.

And how could you like someone’s who a left wing hypocrite like Stewart, he can take words and actions of people ( the right) out of context daily on his show with his stupid slips, but them spends half his show going after FOX news for every perceived unfairness to Obama and anyone of the left, besides the ridiculousness in how he treated Bush, with the excuse of ‘ truth to power”, while treating Obama administration with kid cloves, and allowing them to get away with cronyism, corrupt governing besides allowing Obama to lie with no consequences.

The state of the country domestically and our international mess is a byproduct of no one in the media holding the Obama administration to account.

Publius

He is more the typical, liberal scorched-earth debater. Attack everyone except the person trial. Lie if you have to. But he is quick enough to go right by O’Pinhead.

So Stewart accuses Fox of selective outrage for not saying anything about Bob Dylan, who had a song about a convicted killer, at the White House.

Nice try at deception there Stewart (aka Liebowitz). By the time Dylan performed in 2010, Hurricane Carter’s conviction had been overturned for 25 years. What was there to be outraged about? And Carter is just as black as Common.

Publius

He is more the typical, liberal scorched-earth debater. Attack everyone except the person trial. Lie if you have to. But he is quick enough to go right by O’Pinhead.

So Stewart accuses Fox of selective outrage for not saying anything about Bob Dylan, who had a song about a convicted killer, at the White House.

Nice try at deception there Stewart (aka Liebowitz). By the time Dylan performed in 2010, Hurricane Carter’s conviction had been overturned for 25 years. What was there to be outraged about? And Carter is just as black as Common.

TheoRealist

Yeh, so if Dylan had performed there before Carter’s conviction was overturned that would have been wrong??

And that says nothing about Bono and Springsteen, both of whom were invited to the White House by a Republican president. Where’s your outrage Publius? That’s what I thought…

Neither of them won? Stewart did…because he made the best point of all A) “if he were president” and B) about us Americans in general.

You would think you’d have things to worry about that are much more important than who’s attending a poetry reading.

Publius

Some of us worry so efficiently, that we have spare capacity.

Publius

Some of us worry so efficiently, that we have spare capacity.

Tyler

You can worry about every little issue in the world because there’s more than enough capacity to do so and worry about more future issues.

The problem is what you’re actually paying attention to. While your attention is focused on nonsense like this…your Congress is seriously considering expanding the Patriot Act for another 6 years and raising the debt ceiling yet again to spend us even further into oblivion.

Stewart won, sadly. Bill is so slow… Common praised the two killers as *warriors* which menas the “falsely accused” think is bunk.

plus tips

it was like 2 potheads arguing, one more stoned than the other. o’reilly could have brought up the conviction of mumia abu-jamal & assata shakur. Didn’t common name one of his kids assata? Sounded like stewart was using moral equivalency argument, your guys did it so why can’t we? Stewart could have easily been put in a head lock and cried ‘uncle’ but o’reilly is slow witted. On his weekly ‘miller time’ segment he has no idea what miller is talking about, the jokes and puns go over his head. This interview should have been like taking candy from a baby but it ended up as two dirty pigs mud wrestling. Didn’t common name one of his kids assata? Sounded like stewart was using moral equivalency argument, your guys did it so why can’t we? Stewart could have easily been put in a head lock and cried ‘uncle’ but o’reilly is slow witted. On his weekly ‘miller time’ segment he has no idea what miller is talking about, the jokes and puns go over his head. This interview should have been like taking candy from a baby but it ended up as two crack heads fighting over a piece of rock.

Kevin Bacon

” sounded like stewart was using moral equivalency argument, your guys did it so why can’t we?”

Except thats not what he was doing at all. He wasnt saying “your guys supported cop killers so we can support cop killers.” He was saying “It has happened before and you dont act outraged, unless it benefits your narrative (of Obama secretly being part of some black liberation group) in which case you feign outrage.” Its like if you eat a pizza with mushrooms on it one day, but the next day you get mushrooms in a salad and all of a sudden you say “Oh I cant eat this salad because I am allergic to mushrooms…” He is questioning the authenticity of their outrage, not trying to morally justify anything based on what the other side did…

Either o’reilly didn’t have all the facts or lacked the fire in his belly. Stewart should have been very easy to dominate since he’s not in his home turf where a cheering crowd stokes the fires. This wasn’t o’reilly finest hour who dropped the ball many times. O’reilly suxxx.

Barry Popik

Stewart said over and over that Common believes that the convicted cop killer is truly innocent. No credible person believes this, but Jon Stewart gives Common every benefit of even the slightest, craziest doubt.

I concur about the ‘MSM treatment.’ I think my line “Either o’reilly didn’t have all the facts or lacked the fire in his belly.” must have made you think i was on stewarts’ side. O’reilly wasn’t at his best game, it’s time to put him to pasture. It’s ok to criticize someone without meaning them ill will. Either o’reilly didn’t have all the facts or lacked the fire in his belly.” must have made you think i was on stewarts’ side. O’reilly wasn’t at his best game, it’s time to put him to pasture. It’s ok to criticize someone without meaning them ill will.

Anonymous

Agreed.

Steprock

Agreed, and O’Reilly could have lit him up for that. He let it slide.

Stimpsonjkatz

“Stewart said over and over that Common believes that the convicted cop killer is truly innocent. No credible white person believes this,…”

I fixed your quote for you (and its still not even true). Believe it or not, there are many people that believe that the court system (and an all white jury in 1973) did not give a politically active black woman a fair trial. The fact that so many people support her is not because they are ignorant, but is a remnant of the systematic discrimination that was explicitly endorsed by this country until the 1980’s.

“An international panel of seven jurists representing the United Nations Commission on Human Rights concluded in 1979 that her treatment was “totally unbefitting any prisoner”.[116]
Their investigation, which focused on alleged human rights abuses of
political prisoners, cited Shakur as “one of the worst cases” of such
abuses and including her in a “a class of victims of FBI misconduct
through the COINTELPRO
strategy and other forms of illegal government conduct who as political
activists have been selectively targeted for provocation, false
arrests, entrapment, fabrication of evidence, and spurious criminal
prosecutions”.”

Poor Bill. I can’t stand the guy but it’s still painful when he makes a fool of himself.

I watched it last night and it was worse than I expected it to be. Bill was lost from the start. Oh, man. He so wants Jon Stewart to like him. It’s pathetic.

The segment with Bernie afterward was awful, too.

Publius

Isn’t it going to suck every tiem Ted Baxter tries to make himself the news? Maybe he should go on The View, and put this one past the mole-faced witches. He can spend a week talking about himself on the View.

Publius

Isn’t it going to suck every tiem Ted Baxter tries to make himself the news? Maybe he should go on The View, and put this one past the mole-faced witches. He can spend a week talking about himself on the View.

Anonymous

It was’nt a good debate imo. Niether was on their game last night. Stewarts argument about Bono and the other artists was lame and Bill was stuck on pretending Stewart was president.

plus tips

Stewart & the left always want to conjure up moral equivalences. The only problem with stewarts’ argument is many of the artists don’t write their own songs but just sing them. This fact would have taken the air out of stewarts’ balloon, unfortunately O’reilly was remiss. Michelle obama invited common to the WH knowing his line of work. Common naming his daughter assata after the cop killer is disconcerting. O’reilly is an arrogant pompous ass just like obama & trump. I’m sure he’ll go on the air tonight and bloviate he gave stewart the biggest beat down of his life. LOL

Svz

Bono, Springsteen and Dylan write their own songs. Next point?

poljunkie

I don’t want them at the White House either! Especially Springstein. That’s what I was yelling back at the T.V.

Kevin Bacon

Moral equivalency is saying “you did something wrong, so now I am morally justified in doing something wrong.” Which isnt what Stewart did at all. He wasnt saying “your guys
supported cop killers so we can support cop killers.” He was saying “It
has happened before and you dont act outraged, unless it benefits your
narrative (of Obama secretly being part of some black liberation group)
in which case you fake outrage.” Its like if you eat a pizza with
mushrooms on it one day, but the next day you get mushrooms in a salad
and all of a sudden you say “Oh I cant eat this salad because I am
allergic to mushrooms…” He is questioning the authenticity of their
outrage, not trying to morally justify anything based on what the other
side did…

Josh

In debate, if you get the question:

“If someone sings a song glorifying the killing of police officers, should that exclude them from being invited to the White House?”

…your answer is YES! Exclude them. Maybe if an artist wants to go to the White House, they will think about what they are saying/singing. This lax attitude about being PC is what got the country into the crapper that we are in now. There is good and bad, right and wrong. Glorifying murder is WRONG. Inviting an artist who glorifies murder into America’s home (the White House) IS accepting and promoting their behavior. Why this is a debate is beyond me.

Anonymous

Good point Josh. I think O’Reilly should have abandoned the Shakur angle and instead played the Common rap song (about killing cops) piece by piece and questioned Stewart about the lyrics. I don’t see how any sane person could justify the cop killing rap song.

Svz

If an artist wants to go?
The issue is inviting the artist. We are a nation founded by folks fighting “the power”. The Tea Party and other domestic dissenters like “Sovereign Citizens” justify having guns to fight “the government” all the time. Who do you think they mean? Not the police?

Josh

I agree that it is the Office of the President that committed the error. What I am saying is that if an artist aspires to be invited to the White House, they should not promote criminal behavior.
((UPDATE)) I just subjected myself to reading all of the lyrics from Common’s last two albums. Did not see anything overtly screaming for the killing of cops. Sorry Fox. However, I did see a few Obama shout-outs and a ton of language I wouldn’t EVER let my kids hear from anyone.

What “power” was the nation’s founders fighting? The war for independence was a last resort and no one wanted it. They first fought in the courts and parliament for representation and always wanted a peaceful resolution.

To group the Tea Party and Sovereign Citizens movement together is an unbelievable joining. Kinda like Mother Theresa and Mao. The Tea Party wants to change the government back to the Constitutional law. They back all aspects of law enforcement and respect the police and military.

The Sovereign Citizens movement claims that government is illegitimate. They may hate what the police do as a rule. They may claim that the police have no jurisdiction over them, but to my knowledge they are not advocating killing all of them.

Anonymous

I can never imagine why they would want to defend themselves against the government! The entire nation cheered the slaugher, burning to death, and bombing of the Branch Davidians not long after Ruby Ridge. Then there’s the Military Commissions Act, Patriot Act, and FISA Amendments.

Yeah, trust your government, buddy, they’ll never turn on you…

Baylesnet

Common hasn’t written, or performed, a song which glorifies the killing of police officers. Anyone familiar with his body of work and overall message would consider the belief that this was his intent to be absurd.

He wrote a song in which he seems to honor a person he considers to be politically significant and deserving of recognition, and whom he believes was unjustly convicted.

This distinction is one reason why this is a debate. It’s beyond you no longer.

Josh

My Update Above:
((UPDATE)) I just subjected myself to reading all of the lyrics from
Common’s last two albums. Did not see anything overtly screaming for
the killing of cops. Sorry Fox. However, I did see a few Obama
shout-outs and a ton of language I wouldn’t EVER let my kids hear from
anyone.

This is exactly what I said. There should not be a debate about “cop killing” at all. Now concerning the adult themes, extreme amount of obscenities, and the multiple drug references… I hope he put in his church mouth…

Baylesnet

No doubt he did — he didn’t seem to have a problem keeping it clean when he did the Gap ad, nor when he was on Sesame Street.

I’m sure he has the sense to keep it clean when invited to visit the POTUS.

Re: Obama shout-outs. Yes: he supports Obama. Contrary to what half the country seems to think, that isn’t a flaw of character. You may disagree with his position, but your opposition doesn’t invalidate it.

Anonymous

Stewart won. Bill did not come across well. He did not make his points clear and comprehensible.

Anonymous

..and when Stewart was on point O’Reilly resorted to yelling at him. Not good.

Anonymous

I stopped enjoying Bill’s show a while ago. The masochist in me sometimes tunes in anyway. Last night was one of those nights.

Anonymous

O’Reilly has anger issues. Stewart definately won that debate.

poljunkie

Totally agree- I watched the highlights on Greta. Stewart had some good points, and O’Reilly didn’t have very good responses.

Anonymous

This Common issue is not helping the GOP, we need to abandon it and focus on more important issues, like Energy independence, Jobs, and “making a Obama a one term president (to quote Hannity)”.

h8 libs

agree.but hannity pushed this alot to begin with.just sayin.

h8 libs

stewart is very good at what he does,twist the truth,project,you did it so we can do it,take things out of context,deflect with lies,you know typical lefty stuff.i have only seen one consertive on his show hold his own cant remember his name but he is on beck from time to time and is a advisor on school books.

Who

I think you missed Jon Stewart’s point. I’m not too crazy about Jon Stewart but his point is valid in saying that if you are to exclude someone from the Whitehouse (i.e. say for glorifying the killing of a police officer), then such rules needs to apply across the board. That would mean, Bono, Dylan, Johnny Cash, and Ted Nugent. From what I can tell from the footage, Stewart seemed fine with not having Common go to the White House as long as rules are placed against other people as well.

Baylesnet

That was exactly his point.

Stewart didn’t come on O’Reilly specifically to defend Common. This is key. His issue was that the inconsistencies in the standards that O’Reilly holds artists to reveals his outrage to be, at least in part, manufactured. In a broader sense, his point is that Fox replicates this type of inauthentic outrage throughout their programming. The implication is that Fox selects which stories it covers, and how, in order to indirectly shape the political landscape in a particular way.

I would think anyone attempting to misrepresent Stewart’s position guilty of the same type of dishonesty.

Art

Watching O’Rielly is like going to the dentist…only worse.

h8 libs

commen was invited to whitehouse specifically for his “poetry”.bono for his aid to africa,dont recall nuge bieng invited(i could be wrong).dylan just sang a song.that being said o rielly lost the debate.

Stimpsonjkatz

So Common was invited to the White House specifically for his “poetry”, not for what he named his kid or what he said about Assata Shakur.You can like someone’s art but not necessarily endorse 100% of their entire views.

I dont get it, there was a republican in congress until 2004 who was IN THE KKK. That is a lot worse than inviting a poet to the white house who feels that a black person in the 1970’s was treated unfairly by the US police and court system….

h8 libs

are you sure you are not talking bob byrd(D).

Cigarandawaffle2003

Good points by many here. I thought that Stewart won because Bill O accepted the premise that Common wasn’t glorifying the cop killing but rather that the person was unjustly found guilty.

h8 libs

obama does not see a problem with inviting common to whitehouse because obama thinks just like common and is surrounded by people who think just like common.

Baylesnet

Enlighten us: How does Common think?

h8 libs

obama does not see a problem with inviting common to whitehouse because obama thinks just like common and is surrounded by people who think just like common.

Steprock

Stewart walked all over BillO in that one, IMHO. Yes, he’s wrong about saying Common thought the woman was innocent since in his own words he said she fought for his freedom. Intellectually dishonest of Stewart.

However, the point that Fox is holding a double standard with their outrage is one that BillO never truly rebuffed.

Baylesnet

Common saying that she fought for his freedom is not necessarily a reference to the murder.

She did fight, in the political sense. His expressing disappointment over her conviction says nothing about whether or not she’s innocent. It says nothing about whether he considers the conviction to be wrong.

A person can express upset over another person committing murder, and then being convicted for it.

It’s an important distinction.

h8 libs

stewart likes to debate bill o because he has bill figured out.

h8 libs

i still watch bill o because he is bettert han the alternatives.fox is still an island in an ocean of crap.

Why does O’Reilley give this guy the platform ? He uses the Leftist playbook in a grand fashion. He would not be on my show !

Abigail24

I don’t think I’ll live long enough to understand why people like Stewart are relevant. So many on FOX have obsessions with Stewart, The View etc. I wouldn’t have a clue what these sensationalists said if those on FOX didn’t run their hatefilled rants. Oh wait a minute, I still don’t know what they spew about because I have a MUTE botton.

Alaroche04

Wait, you sit there watching the TV on mute when you don’t like something you hear?