Councillor John Fox, Constituency Chairman, Harrogate and Knaresborough Liberal Democrats said: “This is the first Liberal Democrat gain from the Conservatives in the north of England this year. We are absolutely delighted to have overturned a huge Conservative majority.

However, I am bemused by the lack of a PCC thread. Are we so embarrassed by our support for these elections that we won’t even cover them? Speaking for myself, I can understand that point of view.

There is a chance to retrieve something from them. We should now say – the people have spoken and they have made it clear that they have little interest in these posts and have also showed strong support for independents pledging to keep politics out of policing where available. Accordingly, we listen to them and would support instead a return to Police Authorities (beefed up with some more democracy)….

We were never going to win any of the more high profile elections today. What’s of primary importance is that we fight tooth and nail year-round in places where we have real prospects of gaining or defending the seat.

@MarkG
” I am bemused by the lack of a PCC thread. Are we so embarrassed by our support for these elections that we won’t even cover them?”
Ditto for Corby. A sentence on the BBC live news feed sums it up: “The Liberal Democrats lost their deposit at the Corby by-election despite demanding a recount.”
Back in August on another thread I posited: “My hunch for the 2012 byelection – unless something significant happens between now and then – is that Labour could pick up anywhere between 45% and the 55% you mention. Worst case for the Lib Dems could be their own vote collapsing, the BNP vote holding up, UKIP standing against the tory candidate, and maybe the Greens or Respect putting up a candidate to grab disaffected left-leaning anti-labour voters: 4th or 5th place and a lost deposit starts sounding quite likely.” Was I prescient or just stating the bleeding obvious?

Peter, there’s more than one by-election today; in Manchester Central we were the only party other than Labour (who held one of their safest seats as expected) to keep our deposit, with the Tories losing theirs.

The strategy for elections through to 2015 is defend defend defend. We need to keep ourselves competitive in places we have built up in the good times. We all know that our vote has shrunk. It’s good that it seems to be collapsing in places where winning is a long way off rather than in places where we are competitive.

It definitely feels better to lose with more than 15% of the vote rather than lose with less than 5%, but you know what feels even nicer? Winning!

I had my say today. I deliberately didn’t vote as I didn’t want to give legitimacy to something I didn’t want. Democracy has worked in that the public have shown they also didn’t want PCCs. Democracy will have failed if they are not scrapped.

Tony, I quite agree! I also won my seat from the Tories in a massive win in Nidd Valley, Harrogate Borough Council, in May, and Eric Jaquin won a seat from the Tories in Skipton!!
We are doing well in the north and we should be shouting about it. Rossett is just another example of where we go up against the Tories with good candidates and good campaigns, we win!
It was a great win in Rossett. I helped the team –not as much as I would have liked–but as much as I had time to do, and it was a well organised campaign and a great team, mainly of HBC coucillors doing the deliveries. We have another in Bilton in December and are hoping to trounce the Tories, once more! That would be 3 wins from the Tories this year!

Also for balance – according to ALDC there were 23 local by-elections yesterday in which both the Lib Dems and UKIP stood. In 11 of them the Lib Dems outpolled UKIP, but in 12 UKIP outpolled the Lib Dems. Given the Lib Dems historical strength in local government, should that not be ringing loud alarm bells?

And the first thing I pointed out for balance – which appears to have been deleted – is that there were several dozen local by-elections on Thursday, and in quite a lot of them the Lib Dems polled less than 5% and came fourth, fifth, sixth – or in one case seventh.

In 11 of them the Lib Dems outpolled UKIP, but in 12 UKIP outpolled the Lib Dems. Given the Lib Dems historical strength in local government, should that not be ringing loud alarm bells?

Anybody who would vote for UKIP would never vote LD. If anything, this is going to represent severe dissatisfaction with the Tory party, and that flurry of UKIP voters is a huge chunk of their right-wing abandoning them. What you’re seeing here might be the early signs of a split in the Tory party.

Are you sure about that? I recall canvassing, some years ago, when there were local elections and Euro elections on the same date. A lot of people told me that they intended voting LibDem in the locals and UKIP in the Euros. When the votes were counted, it was apparent that many had done just that.

I suspect that, at that time, some people saw both UKIP and LibDems as convenient vehicles for sending “messages” to the other parties. And that, in areas where we had a good track record in local government, some electors were prepared to support LibDem council candidates despite opposing LibDem policies on national , and international, issues.

I would suggest that what you need to be alarmed about now is (among other things) the likely outcome of the next Euro elections. When are they, by the way?

I don’t mean you should be concerned because UKIP is taking votes directly from the Lib Dems – though anyway I think your statement that “Anybody who would vote for UKIP would never vote LD” is nonsense. I’m sure the Lib Dems attracted a significant number of votes in the past on the basis of “Neither of the above”, and that a fair number of them are currently going to UKIP on the basis of “None of those three”. And if you think all Lib Dem voters in the past have been Euro-enthusiasts, you can’t have knocked on many doors.

“Anybody who would vote for UKIP would never vote LD” – this is simply not true. In the south west, for example, we had a lot of people have us as a second preference in a strong constituency before 2010 and that was a seat we lost. So there should be alarm bells ringing.

I’m sure the Lib Dems attracted a significant number of votes in the past on the basis of “Neither of the above”, and that a fair number of them are currently going to UKIP on the basis of “None of those three”.

Those don’t count for anything – they only happen in unwinnable constituencies. People who are determined to waste their vote will always manage to do so, and do not affect the outcome.

Lib Dems have in the meantime gained a further two council seats from the Tories in Folkestone, following by-elections for the district and town council in Folkestone Park ward yesterday. Congratulations to Lynne Beaumont and all the team there!

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