Nonsense. Most advancements in fighting infectious disease have come from public sanitation efforts and not some doctors or hospitals. You live longer now? Thank the garbage man and the people that clean your water. Not getting sick in the first place and all that.

SpdrJay:I'm more worried about some lab- created thing being released on purpose than I am about the naturally occurring stuff.

The naturally-occurring stuff has a pretty good track record. The rising number of cases of resistant TB and the increasing prevalence of MRSA scare me plenty enough. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the worst epidemic of the last century the 1918 flu? The flu. Killed millions, specifically striking the young and healthy with the greatest virulence.

born_yesterday:The naturally-occurring stuff has a pretty good track record. The rising number of cases of resistant TB and the increasing prevalence of MRSA scare me plenty enough. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the worst epidemic of the last century the 1918 flu? The flu. Killed millions, specifically striking the young and healthy with the greatest virulence

born_yesterday:SpdrJay: I'm more worried about some lab- created thing being released on purpose than I am about the naturally occurring stuff.

The naturally-occurring stuff has a pretty good track record. The rising number of cases of resistant TB and the increasing prevalence of MRSA scare me plenty enough. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the worst epidemic of the last century the 1918 flu? The flu. Killed millions, specifically striking the young and healthy with the greatest virulence.

Not to mention the totally-drug-resistant Gonorrhea. And that Clostridium Dificile that requires killing ALL your gut bacteria and then transplanting someone else's poop into your system.

dionysusaur:born_yesterday: SpdrJay: I'm more worried about some lab- created thing being released on purpose than I am about the naturally occurring stuff.

The naturally-occurring stuff has a pretty good track record. The rising number of cases of resistant TB and the increasing prevalence of MRSA scare me plenty enough. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the worst epidemic of the last century the 1918 flu? The flu. Killed millions, specifically striking the young and healthy with the greatest virulence.

Not to mention the totally-drug-resistant Gonorrhea. And that Clostridium Dificile that requires killing ALL your gut bacteria and then transplanting someone else's poop into your system.

At some point, we're going to have to put antibiotics on strict regulatory control. Meaning that if you want them, the doctor sees to it that you take every single dose, as ordered, and has the police bring you to him if you don't show up on time.

Because that's where drug resistant bugs come from... Idiot takes half the drugs, kills 95% of them, feels better since their immune system can clean up the rest on its own, and the most drug-resistant .1% are the last handful that escape when they fail to take the other half of the drugs even though the doctor said "take all of them on schedule."

Thanks Monsanto! by the way, how's that "feeding the world" thing going?

Dear Hippy,

You realize that GMO foods have nothing what so ever to do with human diseases becoming immune to antibiotics, right? If you posted a picture of a cow being fed antibiotics every day of its life to keep it alive in the horrifying disease-ridden squalor of the industrial farm in which it lives we might agree.

Also, supply of food is just fine; you're welcome. Planet is still having issues with distribution but that's not our problem.

There's always someone in every thread who wants someone to die. Politics threads, religion threads, iPhone vs Android threads, there's usually someone saying someone needs to die, and usually he gets roundly heckled and rightly so. Then we have comments about overpopulation, where it is seemingly acceptable to wish for the deaths of 6 billion people, and no one cares? I'm sure someone can misattribute a quote to Stalin summing it up.

mrlewish:Nonsense. Most advancements in fighting infectious disease have come from public sanitation efforts and not some doctors or hospitals. You live longer now? Thank the garbage man and the people that clean your water. Not getting sick in the first place and all that.

Not possible. The esteemed Fark Nobel laureates and PhDs have assured me that we don't live longer than 3000 years ago.

The worst part is that the people spreading the flu panic and contributing to people buying anti-bacterial everything should freaking know better. They know that the public panic will help create antibiotic resistant bugs, but they fearmonger anyway. Now look where we're headed!

Nickninja:The worst part is that the people spreading the flu panic and contributing to people buying anti-bacterial everything should freaking know better. They know that the public panic will help create antibiotic resistant bugs, but they fearmonger anyway. Now look where we're headed!

Well, some of the anti-bacterial stuff, like, say, the hand-lotions, aren't realy antiobiotic based, and more "NUKE THEM WITH ALCOHOL" based.

Felgraf:Nickninja: The worst part is that the people spreading the flu panic and contributing to people buying anti-bacterial everything should freaking know better. They know that the public panic will help create antibiotic resistant bugs, but they fearmonger anyway. Now look where we're headed!

Well, some of the anti-bacterial stuff, like, say, the hand-lotions, aren't realy antiobiotic based, and more "NUKE THEM WITH ALCOHOL" based.

This. And bacteria cannot become alcohol resistant (it is like you becoming resistant to being set on fire), so that isn't part of the problem. Same with bleach.

machoprogrammer:Felgraf: Nickninja: The worst part is that the people spreading the flu panic and contributing to people buying anti-bacterial everything should freaking know better. They know that the public panic will help create antibiotic resistant bugs, but they fearmonger anyway. Now look where we're headed!

Well, some of the anti-bacterial stuff, like, say, the hand-lotions, aren't realy antiobiotic based, and more "NUKE THEM WITH ALCOHOL" based.

This. And bacteria cannot become alcohol resistant (it is like you becoming resistant to being set on fire), so that isn't part of the problem. Same with bleach.

So, we're going to have a bunch of "human torch" bacteria to deal with in a few years.

Currently, the most common GMOs create a very similar situation on an agricultural level. They are engineered to be resistant to glyphosate and glufosinate (herbicides), in order to make it possible to basically spray said herbicides much more freely. Naturally, this has led to resistant weeds. The other major modification is a gene so plants produce Bt toxins (which are toxic to insects but otherwise very safe, though there is a difference between spraying the outside of a plant and having the plant produce the chemicals itself). This, also, has naturally led to resistant pests. Notice one of these things is a way to sell a ton of herbicide, though the other is more benign in a sense. Neither of them, however, have anything to do with feeding the world or making food more nutritious.

So, perhaps some of that enthusiasm for GMOs should be tempered. Just sayin'.

In any case, overuse/misuse of chemicals against unwanted organisms is a good way to set yourself up for trouble. If used carefully, then these chemical agents are a great boon. If used carelessly, though, not so much.

machoprogrammer:Felgraf: Nickninja: The worst part is that the people spreading the flu panic and contributing to people buying anti-bacterial everything should freaking know better. They know that the public panic will help create antibiotic resistant bugs, but they fearmonger anyway. Now look where we're headed!

Well, some of the anti-bacterial stuff, like, say, the hand-lotions, aren't realy antiobiotic based, and more "NUKE THEM WITH ALCOHOL" based.

This. And bacteria cannot become alcohol resistant (it is like you becoming resistant to being set on fire), so that isn't part of the problem. Same with bleach.

But you could fail to become resistant by denying yourself exposure to everyday bacteria.

machoprogrammer:And bacteria cannot become alcohol resistant (it is like you becoming resistant to being set on fire)

Not being a bacteriologist ... why can't bacteria become resistant to alcohol? What makes alcohol like fire to them?"Google tells me it "dissolves cell membranes." Fine, but if more than a single molecule is needed to do that, I don't see why bacteria shouldn't be able to evolve alcohol resistance.

Uncle Tractor:machoprogrammer: And bacteria cannot become alcohol resistant (it is like you becoming resistant to being set on fire)

Not being a bacteriologist ... why can't bacteria become resistant to alcohol? What makes alcohol like fire to them?"Google tells me it "dissolves cell membranes." Fine, but if more than a single molecule is needed to do that, I don't see why bacteria shouldn't be able to evolve alcohol resistance.

It would still go right through the second wall. It basically dissolves the cell wall and dries them out.

machoprogrammer:Uncle Tractor: machoprogrammer: And bacteria cannot become alcohol resistant (it is like you becoming resistant to being set on fire)

Not being a bacteriologist ... why can't bacteria become resistant to alcohol? What makes alcohol like fire to them?"Google tells me it "dissolves cell membranes." Fine, but if more than a single molecule is needed to do that, I don't see why bacteria shouldn't be able to evolve alcohol resistance.

It would still go right through the second wall. It basically dissolves the cell wall and dries them out.

Fun fact: it also does the same to our cells, in high enough concentration. Our skin is already dead and dried out so it's not too bad, but this is why we don't drink pure lab alcohol, boys and girls.

Uncle Tractor:Not being a bacteriologist ... why can't bacteria become resistant to alcohol? What makes alcohol like fire to them?"Google tells me it "dissolves cell membranes." Fine, but if more than a single molecule is needed to do that, I don't see why bacteria shouldn't be able to evolve alcohol resistance.

I should also mention: Most drug resistance is due to the mutation of a single protein (or group of proteins) that are the drug targets, making the drug unable to bind to its function. Think of it as a lock and key; the bacterial target protein is a lock, and the antibiotic is the key. Changing a couple of pins in the lock means the key doesn't fit anymore.

In order to do the same thing for alcohol, bacteria would need to basically come up with a brand-new set of resistance factors, which is just not the way evolution works. That being said, there are actually some bacteria that are becoming slightly alcohol-resistant or detergent resistant, so it's not like it's impossible...

Chameleon:Uncle Tractor: Not being a bacteriologist ... why can't bacteria become resistant to alcohol? What makes alcohol like fire to them?"Google tells me it "dissolves cell membranes." Fine, but if more than a single molecule is needed to do that, I don't see why bacteria shouldn't be able to evolve alcohol resistance.

I should also mention: Most drug resistance is due to the mutation of a single protein (or group of proteins) that are the drug targets, making the drug unable to bind to its function. Think of it as a lock and key; the bacterial target protein is a lock, and the antibiotic is the key. Changing a couple of pins in the lock means the key doesn't fit anymore.

In order to do the same thing for alcohol, bacteria would need to basically come up with a brand-new set of resistance factors, which is just not the way evolution works. That being said, there are actually some bacteria that are becoming slightly alcohol-resistant or detergent resistant, so it's not like it's impossible...

It sounds like Mycobacterium are already somewhat resistant to alcohol though, so it is kind of misleading.

machoprogrammer:It sounds like Mycobacterium are already somewhat resistant to alcohol though, so it is kind of misleading.

Yeah, the waxy coat is inherently resistant to an extent. Since Mycobacteria are the only genera with the coat it's not something I'd lose much sleep over--regular bacteria aren't capable of adapting the coat (it would take way too much genetic adaptation) Also, the only major outbreaks seem to have been in immunocompromised people. Still, the idea of alcohol/detergent-resistant Mtb is not exactly a pleasant thought.

machoprogrammer:It would still go right through the second wall. It basically dissolves the cell wall and dries them out.

...But how much alcohol does it take to do this? Just one single molecule? If it requires more than that, isn't that the beginning of alcohol resistance? If a bacteria can survive one or two alcohol molecules but is killed by three, then a mutation should be able to let it's descendants survive three.

Chameleon:Yeah, the waxy coat is inherently resistant to an extent. Since Mycobacteria are the only genera with the coat it's not something I'd lose much sleep over--regular bacteria aren't capable of adapting the coat (it would take way too much genetic adaptation) Also, the only major outbreaks seem to have been in immunocompromised people. Still, the idea of alcohol/detergent-resistant Mtb is not exactly a pleasant thought.

If one kind of bacteria can do it, so can others. IMO, of course. This isn't my field.

Maybe a bacteria could evolve a way to process alcohol into something that doesn't harm it?

I'm always amazed at how often the journalists who report on antibiotics have no clue as to what makes them so useful. It's not just that they can kill bacteria, it's that they can kill bacteria inside you. Sure, a high concentration of hydrogen-peroxide can kill even the toughest of super bugs, but you can't inject that into your blood!