TGP Podcast: Ecclesiastical Dogmatism: Abuse in the church 1

This episode features host Aaron Lague, Dirk Petterson, and Patrick Steckbeck. Unfortunately it does not contain an introduction due to processing problems and the editing is sub-par. Nonetheless, we hope you benefit from the discussion about Dogmatism, particularly in the church, and Dogmatism’s practical outflow in the form of manipulation and abuse.

6 comments on “TGP Podcast: Ecclesiastical Dogmatism: Abuse in the church 1”

Excellent discussion. Question – how does the congregation recognize that they are being GROUP led and group manipulated? Comments from the pulpit like “this sermon today is just our discussion” and “I have ways to know everything that goes on” and “I had to reprimand that woman who came in”…cult leader perfecting and grooming.

Hello Linda, great question. I think you hit the nail on the head with your quotes. The concept that the manipulator will use in public, particularly from the pulpit, is called “slanting.” For example, whenever a questionable action is undertaken by the manipulator he will publically “interpret” the event in a positive light toward his own ends. As an example (a really good example), a prominent church leader purportedly had recently unjustly fired several of his elders before preaching a sermon. During the sermon, he utilized the analogy of the purpose and mission of the church as a “bus” going to a destination – either you get on the bus or get run over by the bus. So he slanted the interpretation of his congregants to think that his aggressive firing of several elders was ok because the “mission” of the church was more important than the rights of these elders. So, that being said the principle to look for is this: Is the manipulator “slanting” and what are the actual facts? Are the actions he is undertaking ACTUALLY just. Is it just to fire someone for not agreeing with your “vision?”

Progressive Communists, the Nazis and the like all justified particular abuses because of the goal which they were supposed to realize. The Jews were abused because they purportedly kept Germany from flourishing. The governments were violently overthrown because they posed a threat to “equality.” Abusers are consequentialists; the ends justify the means.

And who regulates these pastors? We all know the local pastor who is abusing his position and gathering “disciples”. The PCA Presbytery has no jurisdiction to remove his credentials. In an ironic twist, that pastor is a member of the local Presbytery, heads committees, and yet pays no membership fees and is not subject to the rules his committee has imposed. Sweet deal. What is the remedy??

Linda, I fully believe in Presbyterianism and the Presbyterian form of church government. I also believe that government is administered by fallen persons. In my experience so far the best way to combat this form of evil is grassroots; tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. The fact that ALOT of people who had nothing to do with what happened to us have listened to this podcast and are saying “Yeah, that’s what happened to us” is an indicator of how pervasive and important this problem is in churches today.

This is my first episode. Shared it on my Facebook wall. It struck a chord with several of my friends. Thank you. We’re Bob Jones graduates. We know first hand the hell that is IFB. So thankful for the Gospel that is undoing the damage. Christ is a compassionate Savior.

I hope it’s helped you in some regard Marissa. This happened to us in a semi-Presbyterianish circle. And the woman whose book we referenced, “Twisted Scriptures,” – it happened to her in a Pentecostal circle. It happens everywhere. We’ve got to keep shining the light on it. Thanks for listening.