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You don't have to be good in the AT, it only matters that the other guy is worse.

Yeah, obviously you are a top tier team. But i think that your internal tests concerning those very piloting heavy comps is not that accurate. Im imagining that that pilot is average or better in your team, seeing as he flew in that match, if the general team flies the arty sleip comp with that skill level youll have warped results, which i think is what happened.

Originally Posted by QuackBot

I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

You don't have to be good in the AT, it only matters that the other guy is worse.

Yeah, obviously you are a top tier team. But i think that your internal tests concerning those very piloting heavy comps is not that accurate. Im imagining that that pilot is average or better in your team, seeing as he flew in that match, if the general team flies the arty sleip comp with that skill level youll have warped results, which i think is what happened.

gets out the popcorn to listen to someone tell me about my tests for the last 2 years

You don't have to be good in the AT, it only matters that the other guy is worse.

Yeah, obviously you are a top tier team. But i think that your internal tests concerning those very piloting heavy comps is not that accurate. Im imagining that that pilot is average or better in your team, seeing as he flew in that match, if the general team flies the arty sleip comp with that skill level youll have warped results, which i think is what happened.

gets out the popcorn to listen to someone tell me about my tests for the last 2 years

Werent you shocked watching that video, by the piloting i mean? You must admit that a arty sleipnir flown that way will perform extremely bad in terms of dps, but you should also know that if flown properly that is a deadly ship. Can you really say that a test with sleipnir pilots like that flying arty sleips gives conclusive results in terms of the strenght of the comp?

Originally Posted by QuackBot

I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

So unless a pl guy here can tell me that that guy in the video flew extremely bad in relations to the usual pl team and that pl has a much higher piloting level overall, im going to assume that that pilot is representative of PLs ploting level, and under that assumption any PL internal arty sleip + orthrus test is very much not how it would play out against a team capable of flying the setup properly.

Originally Posted by QuackBot

I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

So unless a pl guy here can tell me that that guy in the video flew extremely bad in relations to the usual pl team and that pl has a much higher piloting level overall, im going to assume that that pilot is representative of PLs ploting level, and under that assumption any PL internal arty sleip + orthrus test is very much not how it would play out against a team capable of flying the setup properly.

Zingers like that are the kinda thing I only think to say when the moment has passed.

I'm a shit pilot.
But I want to be better.
What's the PL guy doing so badly?
He has 425mm ACs, so something like 3000m optimal and 19,350m falloff?
I didn't notice him out-orbiting his own guns...
Was it how he handled his tank?
Or continuing to approach while being primaried, instead of trying to go for transversal?
Or not re-acquiring lock after the jams failed?

Wolf's main point is that he's not using hotkeys at all so has to do everything sequentially e.g. has to start moving, then starts locking, then lands tackle, then starts firing. That matters when you're forced to do two things at once - such as try and grab an kiting enemy ship (which is offensive task) whilst running your local tank (which is a defensive task).

He's also only using approach to try and catch kiters, which is inefficient compared to cutting them off.

I'm a shit pilot.
But I want to be better.
What's the PL guy doing so badly?
He has 425mm ACs, so something like 3000m optimal and 19,350m falloff?
I didn't notice him out-orbiting his own guns...
Was it how he handled his tank?
Or continuing to approach while being primaried, instead of trying to go for transversal?
Or not re-acquiring lock after the jams failed?

Firstly, as sulei said, there are keybinds - lets say you want to double click in space to pilot, lock a target up, heat your invul and heat and pulse your asb - all at once. With clicking youll waste a lot of time here, and its easy to make mistakes. Thus keybinds are very needed, the default ones suck usually but just binding qwert asd yx alone (you can do much more if you want) will give you a lot of control over your mods. And while he had them setup, he didnt use them. Notice how one he starts taking damage he does nothing at all bar tank? Thats due to no keybinds.

Then we have his overview, he doesnt have transversal (or angular). Which alone makes him unviable to ever fly a arty sleipnir.

Now, as you probably know guns track better vs big targets and worse vs slow targets, and the higher the transversal (or angular, which is transversal with range calculated in) the lower your chance to hit. Now, a scimi is a small cruiser, and it has a sig link (i think, not 100% sure) making it even smaller.

Now, you might say a sleipnir hitting keep at range 7.5km will track perfectly, but shows a sleipnir is doing less then half its dps vs a slowboating scimi at full transversal. (the scimi in the match was webbed, but well talk about that later on)

Now, in this graph nothing changed at all bar the fact that the sleipnir is manually (i.e by clicking in space) piloting so he flies into the same direction as the scimi, this lower transversal and gives you:

Notice how just due to not using orbit/keep at range/ctrl space but piloting manually the sleipnir is almost doubling its dps? The scimi in the match was slowed a lot, but the difference between him doing that and not doing that is still almost 100 dps.

This same principle applies also to artys, which track much worse. So for a arty sleipnir to hit a target like a svipul or a jackdaw or a jag, or even a scimi at range, for almost full dps he will have to fly in such a way that he massively lower transversal, this is called transversal matching. It consists of flying in the direction the target is flying and matching your speed (by clicking on the speed bar to limit it usually) to its speed, doing that a arty sleipnir can get full hits against targets much much smaller then it. On the other side, the same sleipnir would never ever hit that small target if he didnt do that.

The there is stuff like how he clicked approach instead of double clicking in space when chasing a target (approach always makes you approach the target, while double clicking will put you where it is going to be, which is much better), the heat management (look at how at the most critical part of the game he stops heating into the scimi at 25% or so heat damage), he also had the wrong ammo loaded, but that may not be his fault or could be a meta choice, and so on and forth.

Originally Posted by QuackBot

I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

I'm just going to point out that for some reason you are inferring how we fly arty Sleips in reference to a video showcasing an AC ship, but thank you for the insight in our testing process.

What does a testing process have to do with that? All i am saying is that a pilot flying a arty pilot lke that would not do well. And since you allowed that pilot to fly in the finals its probable that the general majority of pl also flies on a simlar level. Maybe he suddenly turns into a master pilot if flying a arty version, but i doubt it.

so to quote myself

Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven

So unless a pl guy here can tell me that that guy in the video flew extremely bad in relations to the usual pl team and that pl has a much higher piloting level overall, im going to assume that that pilot is representative of PLs ploting level, and under that assumption any PL internal arty sleip + orthrus test is very much not how it would play out against a team capable of flying the setup properly.

So, is the majority of pl flyng much much better then that guy and you can test those setups properly or not?

Edit: Im more then happy to accept that btw, if you tell me that most of PL flies a lot better then that ill believe you. The same if you tell me that you have pilots that fly arty sleips very well and thus you could test these setups very well too. But i havnt heard anyone say that yet.

Last edited by W0lf Crendraven; October 22 2016 at 10:24:00 PM.

Originally Posted by QuackBot

I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".