We are going to strip down the teak on our new boat and refinish it all. *There are a miriad of optons out there for finish types and materials. *I am like a deer in the headlights trying to decide what I want to use on what will be a clean slate. *We have used Epiphanes on our Monk and really like it but low maintenance is good too. *Thus, we are leaning towards Cetaol Gloss (don't want a matte finish) but I am not decided. *A nice gloss but low maintenance finish would be our end goal. *

To help me decide and just for the fun of it....post some pics of your brightwork with a note about what product you used, why, how you like it and whether you would use it again if you stripped down to bare teak and if not, what do you think you would use. *

Ron,
No doubt having no exterior teak is makes for a low maintenance exterior! But- we do like the looks of it when it is taken care of. Our new boat has a lot less exterior teak. In my opinion it has enough to look nice but not so much to be a headache- really just a teak toe rail @ foredeck, cap rail around cockpit, and then the cockpit bulkhead at the salon. Cockpit is fully covered so the bulkhead is largely protected.

No pictures handy, and frankly the brightwork is next on my list now that the flybridge enclosure is done, so our bright work is looking less than stellar.* We have a teak rubrail, teak swim platform, teak transom ladder, and now teak door runners!* (actually I do have a nice picture of those).

We use Cetal gloss with the natural teak color.* I manually sand with 100 and 220 paper to prep....tack cloth to get dust off.* I use a sponge brush for application.* I use a scotch brite inbetween coats for a light sanding.* One tip I was given was to stir not shake the Cetal...and to continue stirring throughout the project to make sure the tint is*evenly distributed.* Shaking introduces bubbles in the Cetal and that's bad.

*** forgot to add that I do 3*to 4 coats and that will last a season to a year...but then it needs doing again.* If there is something that lasts longer, I'm open to new alternatives!!

We have used Bristol on the boat for the last ten or eleven years now and would not use anything else. A few years ago I learned a new technique for finishing bare teak from Bob Lowe on the GB owners forum, and that is to paint the bare teak (after finish sanding) with a couple of coats of CPES and then apply the first coat of Bristol while the CPES is still a bit tacky. Then apply the rest of the finish coats. In our case we try to get eight or ten coats on but often the weather prevents this. The CPES makes the bright finish adhere WAY better and longer than if the bright finish was applied directly to the bare wood.

We have used this technique on several pieces of the exterior trim on our boat over the last couple of years and the difference it make in the adherence of the finish--- even if we only have a chance to get one or two coats on due to weather--- is dramatic. Bristol lasts far longer than varnish anyway in terms of UV resistance, but with the application of CPES under it, it stands up even better to the weather.

This technique is only good for new, raw teak or teak that has been stripped down to bare wood. It will not work as advertised on wood that already has a bright finish on it. And it will work with varnish as well as Bristol. Don't know about Cetol--- we would never use that on our boat-- nor do I know how it would work under some of the other finishes on the market. Probably pretty well I suspect.

Keep in mind that things always look better in photos than they do in person :-)

Peter B wrote:
What's CPES, for the uninitiated - clearly a US product. Is it something like what we call Everdure, which is a 2 pack, deep penetrating, epoxy type, antifungal and wood preserver...?

CPES is Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer (or Sealant).* It is a two-part epoxy mixed 1:1 and had the consistency of diesel fuel.* It penetrates deeper into the wood than any other epoxy on the market.* It is manufactured by Smith & Company.* It can be purchased directly from them or from re-sellers like Jamestown Distribuors or Rot Doctor in Seattle, which is where we get ours. http://www.rotdoctor.com/products/cpes.html

It is a "miracle" material for anyone with a wood boat or a boat that has wood on or in it.* Needless to say it is a favorite for the GB owners crowd, particularly the members with woodies.* We use it primarily under brightwork (now), as a sealant for window frames we are refinishing,* to prep interior surfaces like bulkheads and whatnot before painting, and so on.

The way it works is that it is so thin it penetrates down into the wood cells from the surface and then cures, thus sealing the cells pretty much forever against moisture intrusion.* Like most epoxies it is not UV resistant so it MUST be covered by something that is--- a finish like varnish, Bristol, etc. if you want a bright finish on wood, or paint. We have used it in one instance with no finish over it-- our teak shower grate--- but the grate lives in darkness most of the time and in the ten years or so since we reworked the grate there has been no deterioration of the CPES "finish."* But this it a clear exception to the rule.

*CPES is intended only for bare wood.* It accomplishes nothing if put on over an existing finish.

it is also NOT an adhesive epoxy.* In other words, you don't want to be using it to glue things together.* It's not made for that--- it's made to be very thin and very penetrating.

I recall that Carl (Delfin) some years ago when the topic of CPES came up, said that you can make a similar product using off-the-shelf ingredients.* I don't recall what his formula was, but a search of the archives might come up with it.* Or perhaps he'll see this and repeat his forumula.

In any event, if CPES is unavailable in your area-- or if it is but you don't want to pay the price, it's not the cheapest stuff on the planet--- it might be that Carl's formula will get you to the same result.* I don't know if Carl's formula gives you every single property of the commercial CPES but if memory serves he said it is a very acceptable substitute and I believe he's used it himself with excellent results.

Here is one example of the effectiveness of CPES.* A number of years ago the friend who bought the surplus LCM pictured below for his new barge service in the San Juans built a pilothouse on top of the existing lower house.* He made it out of plywood and it was intended to be cheap and purely functional to provide an elevated vew over the loading ramp when approaching island shorelines to unload building materials, cement trucks, construction equipment, etc.* Aesthetics were not a consideration.

We had recently learned about CPES and I told Gary about it.* He went out and bought enough to apply several coats of it to his new plywood pilothouse before he primed and painted it.* The boat sits outside in the weather year round.* He owned and used the LCM for a good seven or eight years or more (if memory serves, Carey can correct me if I'm wrong) and just recently sold it.* While he and his wife may have repainted the pilothouse during that time, so far as I know the structure itself is as strong and watertight as it was when he first built it.

i'm with Marin on Bristol. *I have used pobably ten different products over the years including Cetol and varnish. *Bristol is absolutely the best I have ever used. *Last time the exterior teak was coated was August '07. *The boat has been in southern climate, and it still looks good. *May do a couple of maintenance coats this year.

Ok. Talk about too many options. It sure would make my decision process easier if there were a clear cut answer as to what is best. I have been using Epiphanes on my Monk and really like it. Bristol sounds nice. Cetol has it's pluses.
For those that don't use cetol, tell me why you are so apposed to it....just curious. I know the original had a funky orange patina but the new color is not bad IMO.

Woodsong wrote:
Ok. Talk about too many options. It sure would make my decision process easier if there were a clear cut answer as to what is best. I have been using Epiphanes on my Monk and really like it. Bristol sounds nice. Cetol has it's pluses.
For those that don't use cetol, tell me why you are so apposed to it....just curious. I know the original had a funky orange patina but the new color is not bad IMO.

*Tony, Marin and I told you wht was best.** If you are going to keep it under a shelter with no sun directly on it, varnish, cetol, Bristol, or most anything will give you good service. *I used Cetol on my trawler. *It was in the sun, and the Cetol didn't have a long life.

Bristol has a little learning curve as to the application, but you will learn that quickly, and scruffing the surfaces only once when recoating is easy. *By the way, *if the varnish is intact, you can apply Bristol right over it, but not vis a versa.

Although Practical Sailor had very good results with Cetol in their longevity test, this is what I have heard from fellow boaters:

Pros - It is easier to apply than varnish (no sanding between coats, some people say they can put on multiple coats in a day); it "breathes" so any moisture trapped underneath evaporates rather than lifts the finish; good UV protection; annual recoat is fast and easy; when time for a full strip and recoat, it is easier to get down to bare wood

Cons - Aesthetics (some people don't like the finish 'cause even the High Gloss is not as glossy as varnish); does not harden to the degree that varnish does; does not wear as well as varnish on high-use surfaces; it's not "the" traditional finish for brightwork

I recently had to rebuild some badly-weathered exterior teak grate steps, so after re-gluing and sanding I used several coats of Cetol then finished with a couple of coats of Epiphane's Rubbed Effect varnish for durability. We'll see!

Keith wrote:
I use Honey Teak by Fabula. Beautiful, durable... you can go two years between coats if you have to, but usually I put 1-2 coats of clear on each year.

*Keith, do you kow how to get in touch with Tom Fabula? *People are looking for him because the need some Honey Teak to finish up jobs. *They say he doesn't answer e-mails, and his phone is disconnected.

Woodsong wrote:
Ok. Talk about too many options. It sure would make my decision process easier if there were a clear cut answer as to what is best.

There's not simply because there are so many variables.* Climate is a big one.* Whether the boat is under cover or not is a big one.* Your time is a big one--- some finishes can be put on with several coats a day, others need a day or more to cure before the next coat can be put on.

What you like the look of is a huge variable.* It's the main reason we don't use Cetol.* Other people really like the look of it.

So which finish is best is right in there with which anchor is best, which anchor rode is best, which oil is best, which radar is best (well, that's actually not a good example because everyone know the answer is Furuno :-) ), which is best, one or two engines, which dinghy is the best, and so on.

The answer to your question probably lies in your marina.* Look to see what boats have the bright finish you like best and find out what the owner used.* That will at least get you a short list of products that work well in your area.* Because what works great where you are might not hold up worth beans up here or in Florida.

Moonstruck wrote:Keith wrote:
I use Honey Teak by Fabula. Beautiful, durable... you can go two years between coats if you have to, but usually I put 1-2 coats of clear on each year.

*Keith, do you kow how to get in touch with Tom Fabula? *People are looking for him because the need some Honey Teak to finish up jobs. *They say he doesn't answer e-mails, and his phone is disconnected.

777-287-6077 is what I have.*Someone down the dock told me he had some medical*problems, but I haven't talked to him since last fall. http://www.fabulainc.com/*doesn't say anything. I hope he's OK, very nice guy. *