freitasm: Like any other service if you sign up for a 30 trial and don't cancel it will start charging. Whoever wrote that piece is absolutely out of touch on how these services work. There is no "nasty surprise" anywhere.

I think you under-estimate how unaware some people can be in regards to being fooled into signing up for such schemes.

My 84 year old father is a case-in-point: he simply saw the ability to get free same-day delivery for a parcel to his grandson in the UK, so signed up on the spot. No additional credit card details were required as, of course, he'd already entered them for the purchase of the item (if the card number wasn't already saved in his account). He just happened to mention to me how he would be getting same-day delivery that made me suspicious (this was the week after the coverage in NZ media), so I checked his account and low and behold he'd signed up for Amazon Prime completely unaware of the on-going cost.

Sure, some may argue that it's just stupid or careless people that get fooled by such marketing approaches, but I do think Amazon is deliberately underhand with this, and know full-well they'll be making a mint off people who have no knowledge of what they've done or interest in paying for such a service, and often these are vulnerable people like the elderly. I don't think it's much better than the "opt out" charges of Jetstar or other similarly dodgy practices.

I couldn't disagree with you more about this. The fact you will be charged at the end of the trial are made quite clear to anyone who even reads the most basic of the terms when signing up. I have yet to find, in having spent over 50K with Amazon, that they are "underhanded", and in fact I don't recall ever having had a bad experience with them, and I have had some pretty amazing experiences.

Just because the lowest common denominator isn't smart enough to work out what the terms they sign up for, doesn't mean all companies should cater for them. I believe people need to become more aware and take more responsibility.

For the record, a few times I have dealt with this, the chat people have always been 100% happy to credit charges when asked with no questions or hassles.

It's always a tricky one when someone uses their family as an example, because arguing that always seems to make the person who presented the situation, defensive and angry, but honestly, if your father at 84 has worked out how to get an account to amazon, load a payment type, order, and send his stuff either direct or through a reshipper, then figuring out the 30 day trial had a charge at the end doesn't seem outside of his ability to understand.

I am not attacking your father here, hopefully you will understand that.

freitasm: Like any other service if you sign up for a 30 trial and don't cancel it will start charging. Whoever wrote that piece is absolutely out of touch on how these services work. There is no "nasty surprise" anywhere.

I think you under-estimate how unaware some people can be in regards to being fooled into signing up for such schemes.

My 84 year old father is a case-in-point: he simply saw the ability to get free same-day delivery for a parcel to his grandson in the UK, so signed up on the spot. No additional credit card details were required as, of course, he'd already entered them for the purchase of the item (if the card number wasn't already saved in his account). He just happened to mention to me how he would be getting same-day delivery that made me suspicious (this was the week after the coverage in NZ media), so I checked his account and low and behold he'd signed up for Amazon Prime completely unaware of the on-going cost.

Sure, some may argue that it's just stupid or careless people that get fooled by such marketing approaches, but I do think Amazon is deliberately underhand with this, and know full-well they'll be making a mint off people who have no knowledge of what they've done or interest in paying for such a service, and often these are vulnerable people like the elderly. I don't think it's much better than the "opt out" charges of Jetstar or other similarly dodgy practices.

I couldn't disagree with you more about this. The fact you will be charged at the end of the trial are made quite clear to anyone who even reads the most basic of the terms when signing up. I have yet to find, in having spent over 50K with Amazon, that they are "underhanded", and in fact I don't recall ever having had a bad experience with them, and I have had some pretty amazing experiences.

Just because the lowest common denominator isn't smart enough to work out what the terms they sign up for, doesn't mean all companies should cater for them. I believe people need to become more aware and take more responsibility.

For the record, a few times I have dealt with this, the chat people have always been 100% happy to credit charges when asked with no questions or hassles.

It's always a tricky one when someone uses their family as an example, because arguing that always seems to make the person who presented the situation, defensive and angry, but honestly, if your father at 84 has worked out how to get an account to amazon, load a payment type, order, and send his stuff either direct or through a reshipper, then figuring out the 30 day trial had a charge at the end doesn't seem outside of his ability to understand.

I am not attacking your father here, hopefully you will understand that.

Yeah, to some degree you are: "lowest common denominator isn't smart enough to work out... " doesn't ring as the most charming endorsement, but I'll put that aside.

You also are perhaps a little naïve as to the impact of aging (as just one example of what can lead to people misunderstanding what they're signing up for) and how people's ability to navigate these kinds of things reduces over time (eg, my father is less aware of these risks and is more likely to fall for them now than he was say 10 +years ago when he first started using Amazon; that he can manage the other aspects of on-line ordering is probably more a reflection of prior actions and prior knowledge).

I feel you're making an assumption of others' abilities based on your own: that Amazon's actions don't seem like a scam to you is a reflection of your prior knowledge, intelligence etc. There are so many reasons why other people may be more vulnerable to falling for this - age, disability, language, intelligence... I think such techniques to get people to sign up for such services are downright unethical, but as you're a bit of an Amazon fanboy I can see you'll defend them to the cows come home! That they are wiling to refund people for such charges may provide a great PR response, but of course they're still making more by those who don't make a fuss or who simply may not be aware that they're being charged.

Yeah, to some degree you are: "lowest common denominator isn't smart enough to work out... " doesn't ring as the most charming endorsement, but I'll put that aside.

You also are perhaps a little naïve as to the impact of aging (as just one example of what can lead to people misunderstanding what they're signing up for) and how people's ability to navigate these kinds of things reduces over time (eg, my father is less aware of these risks and is more likely to fall for them now than he was say 10 +years ago when he first started using Amazon; that he can manage the other aspects of on-line ordering is probably more a reflection of prior actions and prior knowledge).

I feel you're making an assumption of others' abilities based on your own: that Amazon's actions don't seem like a scam to you is a reflection of your prior knowledge, intelligence etc. There are so many reasons why other people may be more vulnerable to falling for this - age, disability, language, intelligence... I think such techniques to get people to sign up for such services are downright unethical, but as you're a bit of an Amazon fanboy I can see you'll defend them to the cows come home! That they are wiling to refund people for such charges may provide a great PR response, but of course they're still making more by those who don't make a fuss or who simply may not be aware that they're being charged.

My grandfather was same age as yours when he got his first PC, so believe me, I DO understand the drop in confidence related to age, and whilst it sounds like I am being mean to your father, I am not targeting him specifically and I ONLY mentioned him because YOU mentioned him.

I am making assumptions based on the due care I think people SHOULD take when they take on a service. It's not like the wording with the Prime membership is confusing it's not in small print etc.

There is a global trend to dumb stuff down to cater for those who are often just too LAZY to read the terms of service (I understand that isn't your dad). The problem is that it's a problem that perpetuates itself. If you don't exercise your brain, like any other muscle, it doesn't work as effectively.

Sure I'm an Amazon fan-boy, because I've spent more than most with them, and they have proven themselves to be an outstanding company to deal with, over and over and over again. I can't think of any other company that exceeds expectations, and some would say I am pretty hard to please.

If you aren't checking your account and aren't aware you are being charged, I feel that's unreasonable to put onto ANY company, that's back to taking personal responsibility.