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What does it mean when your WH can no longer console you when you're grieving the loss of your perfect marriage? What does it say when you sit at the dining room table sobbing, and he puts up a wall and gets angry because HE just wants to have a good day after 2 weeks of bad?

Seriously, we're only 11 months in and he no longer has compassion, he no longer wants to talk about the A (because he doesn't want to feel guilty anymore), and he can't even pretend to care when I'm sad. This is a very different person than the remorseful WH 6 months ago.

I think I'm done. I really don't see this working if he can't help me through the healing this early on. I really think the narcissist who committed the affair is the same narcissist who doesn't want to feel guilty anymore and "just wants to be happy" and not talk about how bad of a boy he was. Can people really change?

He refuses to do the work. He refuses to read these threads to see how I'm not crazy, and NO, I'm not just TRYING to make things worse by having a bad couple of weeks.

I'm at such a loss. With two precious little boys to consider, too...

Help, friends!

Me: BW
Him: WH
Married 13 years at time of D-Day, 2 small children
D-day 1: 8/16/12 (told it was EA only)
D-day 2: 9/22/12 (the OW confessed to the truth and exposed the PA)
12 month affair, 10 months PA
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R

Posts: 84 | Registered: Jul 2013

SmallButStrong♀ 40128Member # 40128

Posted: 11:57 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013

I will add...he is VERY sweet and attentive when I'm low-maintenance. He will even get weepy about how lucky he is that I'm sticking around. BUT the moment the sad/depressed/angry me emerges, he shuts down.

Me: BW
Him: WH
Married 13 years at time of D-Day, 2 small children
D-day 1: 8/16/12 (told it was EA only)
D-day 2: 9/22/12 (the OW confessed to the truth and exposed the PA)
12 month affair, 10 months PA
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R

Posts: 84 | Registered: Jul 2013

brainless twit♀ 12085Member # 12085

Posted: 12:52 AM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013

I'm dealing with the same thing... He gets so irrationally angry if I'm not doting and happy 24/7. That's especially hard for me to deal with after seeing how patient and compassionate he was with OW #2 - if she said she had a bad day he would text her for hours to ask what happened and comfort her. If I cried because someone chopped my arm off, he would be angry that I "ruined" everything with my emotions. I really don't know what to do with this.

Sorry I can't be more help but ((((hugs)))) to you and just know that you aren't alone.

Yes, people can really change but they must honestly want to change. I do think that for many it is very difficult. I live with a man that has changed, but he hit rock bottom in the shitty life that he created and did not want to live like that anymore.

The true test of a remorseful WS is found in his/her response to the many bad days experienced by the BS.

Looking back I think there were times that I intentionally made my WH life 100x more difficult JUST to see if he would stick it out, to test his level of remorsefulness.

One thing my WH knew with 100% certainty: I am a woman of my word, he was going to do the work (as my tagline clearly states) to fix the mess he created or we were done.

If your WH is serious about R he must be willing to make the effort 100% of the time...not just when you are "low maintenance"

Bottom line, I too would be done if my wH wasn't consistently making an effort...always.

I am sorry that you are not getting all that you deserve from your WH.

Sometimes extreme action is required, like asking him to leave, seeking the advice of an attorney, or filing for D, for the WH is wake up to the reality that you will not stand by and allow this.

Wishing you strength.

ME: 54 BS
HIM: 61 WH
Married: 28 years
D'Day: 10/29/10
in R 4 years and it's working but he is putting 200% into it (as he should) to make it right again.

The truth hurts, but I have never seen it cause the pain that lies do.

Posts: 2181 | Registered: Nov 2011

sisoon♂ 31240Member # 31240

Posted: 11:09 AM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013

If you're done, you're done.

If you still really want R, this is something that can be cleared up in MC, if you're both willing to do some MC. That is, an MC might be able to explain to your H that he needs to support you during rough times and that the fallout from the A lasts a looooong time. So, where does MC fit for you?

How about the other biggies? Is your H honest, transparent, NC, good boundaries, in IC to change the thoughts and feelings that allowed him to cheat?

I ask these questions because you say you 'think you're done', not 'you're done'. If you really mean ending your M is the best decision for you, I honor that decision.

fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 70 (22 in my head), Married 45+, together since 1965, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
I'm not an exemplar. I share my own experience because it's all I know.

Posts: 11130 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area

SmallButStrong♀ 40128Member # 40128

Posted: 8:51 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013

Sisoon, our MC has told him over and over that he needs to show me more empathy and give me what I need, especially on the bad days. He always leaves MC energized and promising to try harder, yet within the next 24 hours, I can trigger and it's like the MC didn't even happen. He NEVER applies the MC tools in real situations.

In terms of IC, he has only gone a few times after I have booked the appointment for him and insisted he goes. Otherwise, he has no desire to go. He doesn't think he needs the IC to work on himself and insists that he only had an A because he "was unhappy", and now he just needs to "stay connected" to me and everything will be fine.

He WAS transparent and willing to talk early on, but not anymore.

In terms of boundaries, he is still showing a flirtatious tendency towards his YOUNG female employees and then acts like I'm crazy when I point out his behavior. He blames it on his personality and swears that his intentions are pure (which I believe in this case, but geez...be on guard!).

So regarding your questions, my answers are gray. I guess that's why I feel stuck. When we're good, he's loving, does nice things for me, acts remorseful and tender, etc. But is that enough to bank on? That he's going to be "good" going forward as long as I remain low-maintenance so he remains loving? If he doesn't want to do the work, to me it means he doesn't really care about my feelings and making sure I heal.

Me: BW
Him: WH
Married 13 years at time of D-Day, 2 small children
D-day 1: 8/16/12 (told it was EA only)
D-day 2: 9/22/12 (the OW confessed to the truth and exposed the PA)
12 month affair, 10 months PA
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R

Posts: 84 | Registered: Jul 2013

tigrislilium♀ 39893Member # 39893

Posted: 9:34 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013

Hi SBS,

I sent you a PM. I hope you see it. I think the article in it might help you.

Tigris

Me: BS, early 40s/ Him: WS, mid 40s
Married 2004
DD8
His affairs: 3 LTAs over at least 5 years, all of them overlapping at the time I found out
DDay: December 2011
Separated ~1 yr, recently reunited
attempting R

Posts: 66 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: East coast

DoneWithLove♀ 39380Member # 39380

Posted: 11:06 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013

Idk if my advice will help considering how close to Dday I am compared you. I would say a trial seperation might help you decide if your better off without your H.
Its like when certain foods bother your stomach, you have to start from scratch, take everything out of the equation and slowly add things back, little by little, to see what the problem really is. Good luck

flirting with employees - very bad, very unethical, very dangerous legally - this guy is taking big risks and probably has poor boundaries

dodging IC - he's afraid of his pain, of course, but unless he resolves his pain, he's a loose cannon

unwilling to examine the bases of his behavior, thought, and feeling - he cheated because he unhappy? Does that mean he can cheat the next time he gets unhappy? The fact that he doesn't see this is a giant red flag.

reduced transparency - big red flag

unwillingness or inability to comfort you or even be with you when you're having a bad time - do you want to stay with a guy who walks away when you need him most?

I think your answers are extremely problematic from the POV of R.

You may not be done, but he's absolutely not a candidate for R at this time.

What do you think about doing the 180?

ETA: To be clear, this many red flags are very serious, IMO. I'm convinced they make your H a non-candidate for R at this time. But these thing alone don't mean R is impossible. Right now, I think you have to choose between 1) S/D, 2) wait, observe, and delay a D/R decision until you feel more comfortable going one way or another. So the sitch isn't good, but you still have options.

[This message edited by sisoon at 6:18 PM, August 14th (Wednesday)]

fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 70 (22 in my head), Married 45+, together since 1965, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
I'm not an exemplar. I share my own experience because it's all I know.

Posts: 11130 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area

HopefullyLost09♀ 40252Member # 40252

Posted: 2:31 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013

I've been feeling lately like my H isn't using the tools given to him to be there for me 100%. He's understanding and what not but I straight up need more and I've told him that. Similar to what you said, after I tell him that our wet come from counseling he is energized and promising and then it's like he tunes out. I know he's got a lot on his plate and we are only a month out from dday but yea.

He doesn't think he needs the IC to work on himself and insists that he only had an A because he "was unhappy", and now he just needs to "stay connected" to me and everything will be fine.

How is he "staying connected" if he's avoiding you when you're trying to emotionally communicate with him?
That's sounds like a recipe for disaster.
If he's not fixing the "why", and he doesn't use the tools he's been given to stay connected then it's very easy to understand why you're afraid right now.
Does he understand that you may be contemplating divorce? Have you said to him (maybe during a MC session) "I need you to be able to cope with my bad days or I feel this relationship is toxic to me and I will no longer be part of it."
Sounds like he's doing just enough, but none of the heavy lifting.

I cannot be responsible for another's personal growth.
DDay#1 of a "cheatillion" 4/1/13
Divorce final 11/04/13