I was watching the game on MLB.TV, so I might be wrong, but it looked like Konerko could've been doubled off first when Crede hit the sac fly in the 10th. Paulie was nearly to second base and had the throw come in to first it would've been out #3, on to the 11th. Konerko was running his ass off back to first when Crede crossed the bag at first.

I even saw Guillen motioning towards first talking to Cora when the team was going through the high-fives following the game. He did not look happy and Cora just shook his head.

Again, maybe I was just seeing things, but I'm 90% sure that was a near catastrophe.

Did TV or radio mention it at all?

CubKilla

04-23-2004, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by LASOXFAN
Did TV or radio mention it at all?

No. The only angle I saw on FSN here in Chicago was a groundview behind homeplate of Magglio racing home.

row18

04-23-2004, 10:34 PM

Ozzie did have a look on his face, and was pointing like something happened.

LASOXFAN

04-23-2004, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by row18
Ozzie did have a look on his face, and was pointing like something happened.

that's what I saw too. The game will be archived on MLB.TV tomorrow, I'll fast forward and watch the end again. I'm pretty certain that's what happened.

ode to veeck

04-23-2004, 10:39 PM

I saw Paulie running back to 1st like you reported when they were talking about Crede on the post game show and showing the camera view that followed him to 1st after the fly he hit ... you may be right...

hose

04-23-2004, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by LASOXFAN
I was watching the game on MLB.TV, so I might be wrong, but it looked like Konerko could've been doubled off first when Crede hit the sac fly in the 10th. Paulie was nearly to second base and had the throw come in to first it would've been out #3, on to the 11th. Konerko was running his ass off back to first when Crede crossed the bag at first.

I even saw Guillen motioning towards first talking to Cora when the team was going through the high-fives following the game. He did not look happy and Cora just shook his head.

Again, maybe I was just seeing things, but I'm 90% sure that was a near catastrophe.

Did TV or radio mention it at all?

I seen exactly the same thing and thought Konerko was off to far from first.

I couldn't tell what Ozzie was looking at from the replay.

voodoochile

04-23-2004, 10:43 PM

Konerko was probably nervous about getting forced out at second after it happened earlier on the bobbled popup. I doubt he expected the ball to be caught.

In the end it doesn't matter, but sounds pretty funny...

FarWestChicago

04-23-2004, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by voodoochile
In the end it doesn't matter, but sounds pretty funny... Anything involving Wheels and running is pretty funny...as long as we won. :smile:

LASOXFAN

04-23-2004, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by voodoochile
Konerko was probably nervous about getting forced out at second after it happened earlier on the bobbled popup. I doubt he expected the ball to be caught.

In the end it doesn't matter, but sounds pretty funny...

um...didn't they only need one run win the game? therefore, if the ball wasn't going to be caught, it didn't really matter if he got to second, did it? so really, all he had to do was stay just off first base - the only bad thing that could happen was getting doubled off first...which almost happened.

It may not seem to matter, but it was a very stupid move on Konerko's part. That kind of poor base running has been a trademark of the Sox for too long, you ask me.

voodoochile

04-23-2004, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by LASOXFAN
um...didn't they only need one run win the game? therefore, if the ball wasn't going to be caught, it didn't really matter if he got to second, did it? so really, all he had to do was stay just off first base - the only bad thing that could happen was getting doubled off first...which almost happened.

It may not seem to matter, but it was a very stupid move on Konerko's part. That kind of poor base running has been a trademark of the Sox for too long, you ask me.

I guess you are right. I was adding in the second out from the catch. I never did see the play. My wireless connection can be balky and MLBTV tends to be more like a series of snapshots at times.

At least Ozzie seemed to notice it, and said something (apparently). JM would have just nodded off. What am I saying? If JM were the manager, the Sox would have lost this game...

JC456

04-23-2004, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by LASOXFAN
I was watching the game on MLB.TV, so I might be wrong, but it looked like Konerko could've been doubled off first when Crede hit the sac fly in the 10th. Paulie was nearly to second base and had the throw come in to first it would've been out #3, on to the 11th. Konerko was running his ass off back to first when Crede crossed the bag at first.

I even saw Guillen motioning towards first talking to Cora when the team was going through the high-fives following the game. He did not look happy and Cora just shook his head.

Again, maybe I was just seeing things, but I'm 90% sure that was a near catastrophe.

Did TV or radio mention it at all?

Once Maggs scored the double play is no longer in effect.

Do you really think the guy catching the ball was looking at first base with the winning run scoring?

That dude had to run back,had no momentum to make a throw anywhere. Jeez, get off Paulies back. You'd be the same one who'd say why didn't he get to third if it went over the guys head. Runners are taught to go more than half way on a fly like that.

Why don't you enjoy the win and stop worrying about stuff like this.

Enjoy the win, Please!!!!

voodoochile

04-23-2004, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by JC456
Once Maggs scored the double play is no longer in effect.

Do you really think the guy catching the ball was looking at first base with the winning run scoring?

That dude had to run back,had no momentum to make a throw anywhere. Jeez, get off Paulies back. You'd be the same one who'd say why didn't he get to third if it went over the guys head. Runners are taught to go more than half way on a fly like that.

Why don't you enjoy the win and stop worrying about stuff like this.

Enjoy the win, Please!!!!

No, that's not true. If the throw beat Paulie back to first, the run would not have counted. Well in the big picture it doesn't matter, it is a valid point.

LASOXFAN

04-23-2004, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by voodoochile
I guess you are right. I was adding in the second out from the catch. I never did see the play. My wireless connection can be balky and MLBTV tends to be more like a series of snapshots at times.

At least Ozzie seemed to notice it, and said something (apparently). JM would have just nodded off. What am I saying? If JM were the manager, the Sox would have lost this game...

Truer words were never spoken - man am I glad that guy is gone!

LASOXFAN

04-23-2004, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by JC456
Once Maggs scored the double play is no longer in effect.

Do you really think the guy catching the ball was looking at first base with the winning run scoring?

That dude had to run back,had no momentum to make a throw anywhere. Jeez, get off Paulies back. You'd be the same one who'd say why didn't he get to third if it went over the guys head. Runners are taught to go more than half way on a fly like that.

Why don't you enjoy the win and stop worrying about stuff like this.

Enjoy the win, Please!!!!

for what it's worth, the second baseman was pointing to first when the right fielder made the catch - he saw it too. I'll bet you a nickle you'll read something about in the papers tomorrow. And yes, I will mail the nickle if I'm wrong.

I'm not on Paulie, he's one of my favorites, but he's also a bonehead sometimes......like tonight.

And I am enjoying it, I promise! :smile:

SEALgep

04-24-2004, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by LASOXFAN
um...didn't they only need one run win the game? therefore, if the ball wasn't going to be caught, it didn't really matter if he got to second, did it? so really, all he had to do was stay just off first base - the only bad thing that could happen was getting doubled off first...which almost happened.

It may not seem to matter, but it was a very stupid move on Konerko's part. That kind of poor base running has been a trademark of the Sox for too long, you ask me. Although that could have happened, it wasn't nearly as close as your making it sound. If there was a play on Konerko and he botched the game, then your point would be more valid. However, to say he's an idiot when it wasn't that big of a deal, and when there wasn't even a play on him seems extreme. I'm sure Ozzie mentioned something to him, but the issue is dead after that I'm sure.

MarqSox

04-24-2004, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by SEALgep
Although that could have happened, it wasn't nearly as close as your making it sound. If there was a play on Konerko and he botched the game, then your point would be more valid. However, to say he's an idiot when it wasn't that big of a deal, and when there wasn't even a play on him seems extreme. I'm sure Ozzie mentioned something to him, but the issue is dead after that I'm sure.
In other words ... he's only not an idiot because the right fielder didn't think to throw the ball to first? Seems like that's more an indictment of the right fielder than it is an exonoration of Paul.

SEALgep

04-24-2004, 02:13 AM

Originally posted by MarqSox
In other words ... he's only not an idiot because the right fielder didn't think to throw the ball to first? Seems like that's more an indictment of the right fielder than it is an exonoration of Paul. There wasn't a play at first for him to throw to. In other words.... no one is an idiot because you can't make believe an out.

joeynach

04-24-2004, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by LASOXFAN
I was watching the game on MLB.TV, so I might be wrong, but it looked like Konerko could've been doubled off first when Crede hit the sac fly in the 10th. Paulie was nearly to second base and had the throw come in to first it would've been out #3, on to the 11th. Konerko was running his ass off back to first when Crede crossed the bag at first.

I even saw Guillen motioning towards first talking to Cora when the team was going through the high-fives following the game. He did not look happy and Cora just shook his head.

Again, maybe I was just seeing things, but I'm 90% sure that was a near catastrophe.

Did TV or radio mention it at all?

As soon as Maggs foot touches the plate the game is over and the play is dead. Only would have made a different if the right fielder rifled the ball to 1st before maggs touched home, but that didn't happen.

Railsplitter

04-24-2004, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by joeynach
As soon as Maggs foot touches the plate the game is over and the play is dead. Only would have made a different if the right fielder rifled the ball to 1st before maggs touched home, but that didn't happen.

You're rigth, besides the right fielder looked as if he was resigned to the run scoring and made no attempt to get Paulie.

soxtalker

04-24-2004, 08:23 AM

I was listening to the radio. The announcers went out of their way to say that the runners had held on their bases. I thought it an interesting, but strange comment at the time. Now, I see from the discussion here that, in fact, Paulie did not hold on the bag. Curious.

voodoochile

04-24-2004, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by joeynach
As soon as Maggs foot touches the plate the game is over and the play is dead. Only would have made a different if the right fielder rifled the ball to 1st before maggs touched home, but that didn't happen.

No, force outs always override runs. Often a guy will cross the plate from first before the ball actually reaches first on a 6-4-3 DP which ends the inning, but the run doesn't count because of the force out. This would be no different. Failure to get back on a flyball out is a force, plain and simple.