The best non-community patch is the 1.12 which is PB's own final patch and a big improvement on vanilla. I've just reinstalled G3 with this patch and the games runs great, better than i've ever known.
Adv' AI is merely extra trivia fluff for those that prefer it (no disrespect) it is of no consequence to the storyline or the quest lines or the chosen path line or the quest sequence line (via quest rejection or non-acceptance). The reputation line and the path chosen to the levels that the gamer thinks are acceptible to continue to advance without straying over the negative consequence line are the crucial factors of success with G3. All of these rpg gaming elements work o.k in vanilla G3.

Originally Posted by Twotricks
Yea. I tried playing without Advanced AI. The game is considerably easier.
Not sure if its good or badů

The AB and AI options definitely make the game harder. This is the tradition for Gothic games. They are aimed at repeat, experienced players who know the tricks and want more of a challenge. There's no shame in staying with the vanilla game, it just depends on your personal point of view and experience.

I wouldn't want to go back vanilla after i've tried alternative a.i and balance. Improvements are huge and the game feels much more rewarding when you can't simply start liberating towns right from the start. The experience is quite similar to gothic 1 where you start as a weakling. In vanilla game an experienced player could have easily liberated cape dunn at level 10 or something, with alternative balancing and a.i enabled you would have to be atleast level 25. You also have to wear decent armour and gear to be successfull. And cape dunn doesn't even have any shaman presence. There are only handfull of regular orc warriors (only 2 elites) and you have quite much help, yet it is a real challenge as it is supposed to be :-). In order to liberate towns successfully you need to make every strike count. So you have to built decent strengh and master your fighting skill, you need increase your health and stamina etc. This all forces you to explore the world and the progression feels more natural.

In vanilla (pre 1.7x) blocking is meaningless because you can win every fight just random clicking. Community patches bring more realism to combat and they increase immersion as a whole. Not only this but actual bug fixes are numerious and increased performance is not something you can overlook.

Originally Posted by Dez
In vanilla (pre 1.7x) blocking is meaningless because you can win every fight just random clicking. Community patches bring more realism to combat and they increase immersion as a whole. Not only this but actual bug fixes are numerious and increased performance is not something you can overlook.

Yes I noticed this now. Fights in vanilla are so easy its a joke. You just click,click and the opponent is stun locked

On other hand playing with advanced AI can get pretty frustrating at times. Not against humanoids, but against beasts (wolves)

Re:-
"On other hand playing with advanced AI can get pretty frustrating at times. Not against humanoids, but against beasts (wolves) Its hard choice"
…………………………………………..
Exactly! absolutely brilliant, this is what the core concept of G3 is about, utilising the power of the animals - wolves etc' against the orcs and why indeed the animals take precedence. It is what the orcs are afraid of, it is explained in game, in detail, by the druid leaders. If you take Maylanders discussion about killing /non killing of the orc commanders——> (post No.11)

…and "connecting" this with the wolves you can get the vision of what can come together!!!

It was intended from the outset that the killing of orcs, humans etc should be fairly easy or easier than the killing of animals. In G3 vanilla this was the case. The aggressive behavious of boars and wolves etc was purposely meant to be this way. Many times i experimented and found a single white wolf could kill a single orc head to head (and of course NH with the wolf ripper stone as an when required). You would then go on to use this power much later in the game to overwhelm the orcs one by one - the Adanos method, the conceptual core method. So you see this has been completely turned on its head because players complained that the beasts were too powerful and some combat with humans was too easy. The vanilla concept has become somewhat tainted, watered down by the insistence of community patches tampering….indeed, all with good intention.

(certainly, the glitches, bug fixes, memory corrections etc' etc' within the patches are a positive and welcomed improvement)

With all its glitches, patch 1.12 is as near (albeit ammended) to improved vanilla of the concept as possible. Iv'e even contemplated installing pure vanilla G3 to play in a retrospective manner to compare the original and quantify the differences.

Originally Posted by Wulf
With all its glitches, patch 1.12 is as near (albeit ammended) to improved vanilla of the concept as possible. Iv'e even contemplated installing pure vanilla G3 to play in a retrospective manner to compare the original and quantify the differences.

While I respect your opinion, I don't agree. CP 1.7 brought too many improvements to ignore. Once I tried it, I couldn't go back to an earlier version.

I can offer only limited advice since I have only ever played with 1.73, with alternative AI and balancing. While the game is challenging in that mode, it is about on par with the previous Gothics regarding difficulty, with possible exception of the insane hordes of animals up north, and some other difficult large fights. In general I enjoy fights in this system.
(And I don't think I was much > lvl 10 when I freed Cap Dun - hard but doable)

Actually i'm playing pure vanilla now (with all of its so-called faults) as many of us did on release.
I had forgotten that Ardea was much harder to liberate and isn't dumbed-down as with patches (many complained about the difficulty) but it feels more authentic (i was killed twice before i realised and changed tactics) - game loading times are faster than all patches - i was very surprised. All of that flickering day/night cycle effect has vanished and the ridiculous queue forming of opponents has gone. The boars are extremely vicious and the wolves are overpowering but i love the gameplay this way as was originally intended. The game looks graphically beautiful as always and is running very smooth.
Later on i intend to experiment and study in detail the "one strike hits" and all of its implications and obviously because of this, advanced AI is completely out of the question, "one strike hits" and advanced AI, now that would be a fiasco worth watching!

Originally Posted by Wulf
Actually i'm playing pure vanilla now (with all of its so-called faults) as many of us did on release.
I had forgotten that Ardea was much harder to liberate and isn't dumbed-down as with patches (many complained about the difficulty) but it feels more authentic (i was killed twice before i realised and changed tactics) - game loading times are faster than all patches - i was very surprised. All of that flickering day/night cycle effect has vanished and the ridiculous queue forming of opponents has gone. The boars are extremely vicious and the wolves are overpowering but i love the gameplay this way as was originally intended. The game looks graphically beautiful as always and is running very smooth.
Later on i intend to experiment and study in detail the "one strike hits" and all of its implications and obviously because of this, advanced AI is completely out of the question, "one strike hits" and advanced AI, now that would be a fiasco worth watching!

I remember beating the hell out of the orcs in Ardea on 1.12. It was much easier than anything else Gothic I had played in the past. I remember being killed by that first scavenger in Gothic 1. In G3 1.12 I was just clicking away at orcs.

Now, I just restarted the game with 1.73 and I got hit unconscious by the orcs three times before I finally started blocking and defending myself.

I remember playing on 1.12 and going to Cape Dun and clicking away at the arena with almost no points spend on strength or anything else and beating all of them with ease, while now, I cannot yet beat the first opponent.

…and do you still remembers BOARS? They were legendary tough before community patches, because the stun-lock.

I agree with Pladia. Before CP, you could beat anyone by just keep clicking your left mouse button. I actually stopped playing the game, when I killed ALL orcs from Geldern(?) in a single room and in a single spot by just slashing and circling around.