Background: The thread is about an incident in CA on BART. The police were called and a beligerent drunk pulled a knife on a cop. Cop shot and killed the guy. The thread starter thinks the cop should have shot the guy in a leg. Numberous posters explain why you don't do that but the poster hangs stubborn. Then comes this jewel of absurdity. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1417973&mesg_id=1419067

Pooka Fey (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-05-11 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
54. I call bullshit on everyone who defends this shooting.
What the police SHOULD do with a drunk, upset, knife-wielding man; and what THEY WOULD do if the USA was a civilized country and not a fascist authoritarian kleptocracy where a person is only valued as an economic unit:

1. You calm everybody the fuck down.

2. You get the passengers and anyone who could get hurt out of the station & far away - you're gonna miss your train? Tough shit. Take a bus, take a cab, walk, use your cellphone for something actually important and call somebody to say there is a situation and say you'll be late.

3. The police have somebody on the force trained in negotiation and in calming down crazy people that they call in. He shows up.

4. The City of San Francisco actually has a mental health services unit and social workers, paid for by the GUVMENT. This person gets called in to come and calm down the crazy guy.

5. We now have 2 professionals who are trained to calm down crazy guy. And because they have actual intellectual skills rather than just a firearm, they convince the crazy guy to put down the knife and the bottle. This doesn't take too long, because the crazy dude knows that he isn't about to be shot, and the two professionals actually know what they are doing. And we don't care how long it takes, because in this society, we don't murder people for having mental problems and then claim 'self-defense'.

6. Nobody in the station over-reacts or bitches too much about losing access to the train for 30 to 60 minutes because human life and human dignity are actually valued in this society.

DREAM SEQUENCE OVER

This is the opposite of what is valued in the USA because here, the only value in human life is in the money that passes through a person on the way to the corporate pocketbooks. Drunk crazy guy has no money and isn't paying in, obviously, so it's OK to eliminate him. Good riddance, in fact.

And you on this thread who defend this, shame on you.

Some of them really don't live in the real world.

SarasotaRepub

07-07-2011, 03:34 PM

Holy Crap! :eek:

Congrats there Pooka. That has to be one of if not THE stupidest posts I've seen over there in years.

:)

hai

07-07-2011, 04:21 PM

Police are taught to aim at the largest mass there is,otherwise they would miss.

noonwitch

07-07-2011, 04:58 PM

The cop has to decide how to prevent a crazy man with a knife from hurting anyone on a train. If he's a good shot, he should aim at the knife-wielding maniac.

It's not like cops enjoy shooting people in those situations. If some other less deadly solution was possible, the cop would likely have tried that first. The presence of unarmed, potential victims in the train makes shooting the guy the best possible solution.

Speedy

07-07-2011, 04:59 PM

A man with a knife can cross a room in the time it takes to draw and fire a weapon.

Zathras

07-07-2011, 05:00 PM

I swear you can't make this shit up....

WatsonT (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-05-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. So how long does it take to "calm everybody the fuck down" including the
belligerent knife-wielding drunk?

Compare that to the time it takes for a belligerent knife-wielding drunk to kill someone.

I swear some of you people live in a fantasy world.

/maybe the police could be issued unicorns with the ability to emit tranquility rainbows out of their arses. The only reason they don't is that Americans value money over unicorns!

Pooka Fey (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-05-11 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. I don't live in a fantasy world, I live in Europe.

DUmmys....they provide so much entertainment and they don't even know it.

NJCardFan

07-07-2011, 05:17 PM

Sometimes cops can't win for losing. Had this officer used a tazer instead of a Glock, this idiot would be jumping up and down still. Some people have no clue. Talk the guy down. Please.

Bailey

07-07-2011, 05:55 PM

Sometimes cops can't win for losing. Had this officer used a tazer instead of a Glock, this idiot would be jumping up and down still. Some people have no clue. Talk the guy down. Please.

That idiot thinks shooting someone in the arm or leg is less dangerous then having a tazer used on a person. I read the thread and most of the DUers aren't stupid and try to make him/her see the light but she's being pig headed.

NJCardFan

07-07-2011, 07:26 PM

That idiot thinks shooting someone in the arm or leg is less dangerous then having a tazer used on a person. I read the thread and most of the DUers aren't stupid and try to make him/her see the light but she's being pig headed.

Not to mention that shooting in the leg or arm is easier said than done. Especially on a moving target. This is why we are trained to shoot center mass. Aim small, miss small.

Novaheart

07-07-2011, 08:57 PM

Police are taught to aim at the largest mass there is,otherwise they would miss.

So was I in my concealed carry class. I would have shot a man coming at me with a knife. In fact, the other night I was going for my therapeutic walk, and some twitch came up to me and started chatting me up. The whole time, I had my hand in my pocket ready to draw.

Notice how the people who claim that the police should have shot a leg or knee, or whatever, never wonder why a dead cop didn't shoot the perp?

Novaheart

07-07-2011, 09:01 PM

Notice how no officers were killed in 2010 by knives. To some people, that means knives aren't a threat, to thinking people it means knives are no match for guns.

FBI National Press Office
(202) 324-3691
According to preliminary statistics released today by the FBI, 56 of our nationís law enforcement officers were feloniously killed in the line of duty during 2010. By region, 22 victims were killed in the South, 18 in the West, 10 in the Midwest, three in the Northeast, and three in Puerto Rico. The total number of officers feloniously killed in 2010 was eight more than the 48 officers slain in 2009.

Of these 56 felonious deaths, 15 officers were killed during ambushes (13 during unprovoked attacks and two due to entrapment/premeditation situations), eight were investigating suspicious persons or circumstances, seven were killed during traffic pursuits/stops, six of the fallen officers interrupted robberies in progress or were pursuing robbery suspects, and six were responding to disturbance calls (four of them being domestic disturbances). Three of the officers interrupted burglaries in progress or were pursuing burglary suspects, three died during tactical situations, two were conducting investigations, one officer was handling or transporting a prisoner, one was killed during a drug-related conflict, and four of the officers were attempting to make arrests for other offenses.

Offenders used firearms in all but one of the felonious deaths of law enforcement officers in 2010. Thirty-eight of the fallen officers were killed with handguns, 15 with rifles, and two with shotguns. The only officer who was not a victim of firearms was killed with a vehicle.

Of the 56 victim officers, 38 were wearing body armor at the times of their deaths. Sixteen of the victim officers fired their own weapons, and seven officers attempted to use their own weapons. Seven victim officers had their weapons stolen; seven officers were killed with their own weapons.

The 56 victim officers were killed in 51 separate incidents. Forty-nine of those incidents have been cleared by arrest or exceptional means.

In addition to the officers who were feloniously killed in 2010, 72 officers were killed in accidents. This is an increase of 24 officers when compared with the 48 officers who were accidentally killed in 2009.

The FBI will release final statistics on officers killed and assaulted in the line of duty in the Uniform Crime Reporting Programís annual report, Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, which will be published on this website in the fall.

FDK

07-08-2011, 03:56 AM

Reasoning with a drunk..... LOLOLOL.

NJCardFan

07-08-2011, 09:52 AM

Notice how no officers were killed in 2010 by knives. To some people, that means knives aren't a threat, to thinking people it means knives are no match for guns.

FBI National Press Office
(202) 324-3691
According to preliminary statistics released today by the FBI, 56 of our nation’s law enforcement officers were feloniously killed in the line of duty during 2010. By region, 22 victims were killed in the South, 18 in the West, 10 in the Midwest, three in the Northeast, and three in Puerto Rico. The total number of officers feloniously killed in 2010 was eight more than the 48 officers slain in 2009.

Of these 56 felonious deaths, 15 officers were killed during ambushes (13 during unprovoked attacks and two due to entrapment/premeditation situations), eight were investigating suspicious persons or circumstances, seven were killed during traffic pursuits/stops, six of the fallen officers interrupted robberies in progress or were pursuing robbery suspects, and six were responding to disturbance calls (four of them being domestic disturbances). Three of the officers interrupted burglaries in progress or were pursuing burglary suspects, three died during tactical situations, two were conducting investigations, one officer was handling or transporting a prisoner, one was killed during a drug-related conflict, and four of the officers were attempting to make arrests for other offenses.

Offenders used firearms in all but one of the felonious deaths of law enforcement officers in 2010. Thirty-eight of the fallen officers were killed with handguns, 15 with rifles, and two with shotguns. The only officer who was not a victim of firearms was killed with a vehicle.

Of the 56 victim officers, 38 were wearing body armor at the times of their deaths. Sixteen of the victim officers fired their own weapons, and seven officers attempted to use their own weapons. Seven victim officers had their weapons stolen; seven officers were killed with their own weapons.

The 56 victim officers were killed in 51 separate incidents. Forty-nine of those incidents have been cleared by arrest or exceptional means.

In addition to the officers who were feloniously killed in 2010, 72 officers were killed in accidents. This is an increase of 24 officers when compared with the 48 officers who were accidentally killed in 2009.

The FBI will release final statistics on officers killed and assaulted in the line of duty in the Uniform Crime Reporting Program’s annual report, Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, which will be published on this website in the fall.
Question; are there numbers on how many cops were assaulted in general with knives?

Novaheart

07-08-2011, 12:56 PM

Question; are there numbers on how many cops were assaulted in general with knives?

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2009/data/table_71.html

Looks like 880 in 2009. The single largest number being in "South Atlantic" which I assume means the Antilles.