9/11/2009

I know that conventional wisdom is that it was wrong for him to yell “You lie!” at Barack Obama. Ed Morrissey said so; Dennis Miller said so; I assume most other conservative commentators said the same thing (while noting that Wilson was correct).

We can spend all day pointing out how Democrats have done similar things (and if they’re going to falsely claim that they haven’t, we have a duty to point out that they have). And I understand the argument that, if yelling becomes acceptable, Republicans will probably bear the brunt of that rule more. But put all that aside for a second.

All he did was yell out the truth.

I don’t know, it’s just hard for me to get too upset about that. Sometimes you have to yell out the truth.

Plus, it’s nice to have a guy named Joe Wilson who cares about the truth, for once.

145 Responses to “Joe Wilson Just Yelled Out the Truth”

I tend to agree – while he may have been “undecorous” in his outburst, I have never, ever seen a SOTU speech that was so completely vindictive, slimy and insulting to anyone that doesn’t happen to agree with His Majesty’s plans for the entire make – over of our country. Once again, the hypocricy of the Dems over “dissent is the highest form of patriotism” is revealed for all to see. And as for those pointing out that our congress isn’t “like Parliament,” I actually tend to believe that it should be much more like the Q & A sessions they have there weekly. Let’s see The One defend his lies without the use of his trusty TOTUS – I’d pay to see that one.

I’ll probably catch flak for this, but I disagree. “ObamaCare” has been proposed and various bills have been floated and voted on. “ObamaCare” has not passed… yet, and maybe (hopefully) it won’t pass.

That being said, Obama has not lied – at least not yet. He says (or claims) that it won’t cover illegals. Since there isn’t any law yet, and we don’t know what will be in it – only what has been proposed and debated so far, there is no lie.

He made an affirmative assertion that there is nothing on the table to cover illegals. The facts are is that there were enforcement provisions on the table that the Congressional Democrats stripped out. There is nothing that prohibits illegals from getting free or subsidized care either.

That being said, Obama has not lied – at least not yet. He says (or claims) that it won’t cover illegals. Since there isn’t any law yet, and we don’t know what will be in it – only what has been proposed and debated so far, there is no lie.

#7
Commenter number seven speaks the truth. You guys should try and do more of that. God bless you, Corwin.

How remarkably stupid (dishonest?) can people get? So then why is Obama making any statement at all about what the bill does or doesn’t do? On what is he basing any statement he makes? By your “logic” we can’t say what the law does or doesn’t do. There’s no law yet.

We have proposed laws. That’s what he and everyone else are talking about. There’s nothing else to go on. The proposed laws at the moment have nothing to prevent illegals from getting coverage. The Congressional Research Service says illegals will be covered.

I think he acted without premeditation but the fact that he did it is a very important event. Somebody needs to start speaking the truth. There is too much prevarication and concern for the feelings of creatures like Chris Dodd and Nancy Pelosi. Republicans have played by the rules for too long. Democrats will filibuster the nomination of Miguel Estrada so that his name will never be available for a Supreme Court Nomination. Then they will nominate a weak affirmative action candidate so they can claim the first Hispanic justice. When the opportunity to retaliate comes around, Republicans cave in saying the president has the right to his nominees. Now, finally, maybe they will start to use the other side’s tactics.

I’m contributing to Wilson’s campaign. Not much but enough to let him know he is appreciated.

If you believe 0 that’s your problem. Many people don’t trust him, and for good reason. He laid out several lies and then indirectly called Sarah Palin a liar after her original assertion was distorted but proved to be true, just before was called on his own lies by Rep. Wilson.

SPQR did a good job of pointing out the aggressive dishonesty in the anecdote about how Teh One claimed the insurance company killed Raddatz. The overt and brazen lies about this being deficit neutral, and not adding one dime to the deficit remain some of the biggest baldest lies he has told to date. Why to you want to teach kids that lying is okay, Lovie?

Sorry, I disagree. Mr Wilson was wrong to yell “you lied”, that is unacceptable in Congress between members, and unacceptable when directed to the President. As Mark Steyn points out, accusations of lying are unacceptable on the floor of Parliament in UK, Canada, and Australia as well.

Saying something like “Wrong!” would have been rude but would not have crossed that bright line.

Look, civility matters in politics, just as it does in our neighborhoods. Remember the broken window theory?

Independents and don’t-give-a-hoot types can only take away from Wednesday’s event that Republicans are uncivil and possibly nuts. Wilson should apologize to the House as he already has to the President.

Obama was uncivil and untruthful in much of his speech, dismissing real citizen concerns as falsehoods or motivated by greed or ignorance. Wow, a politician who shades the truth so badly that it is indistinct from lies, how novel

Mr and Ms Independent already thinks all politicians have truth issues. Now they think that Republicans, and only Republicans, have basic behavioral shortcomings that are annoying and unhelpful to their lives. Good work, Mr Wilson…

There was a post at National Review Online (I think in the Corner) yesterday that postulated that what Joe Wilson did was strategically brilliant in an unintentional way. The idea is that Wilson deflected the post-speech talk from being about Obama’s outline for health insurance reform to being out his outburst. He also placed the questions of coverage for illegals and abortion front and center, which Obama and his allies most certainly did not. Their conclusion is that Obama will not get any momentum from this speech thanks to Wilson’s distraction.

Joe Wilson did not yell the truth. Get your facts right. He yelled a baseless and insolent accusation. A behavior he has apologized for. Disagreeing with someones statements doesn’t give you the right to call him a liar. The words he used was not appropriate. Instead of “You Lie!”, he should have booed or simply said “I disagree.” Accusing someone of lying is a more serious offence. Especially when you can’t really prove it beyond reasonable doubt. Joe Wilson is a disgrace to himself and to all those who support him.

There are countless examples of people acting irresponsibly, writing lies, etc. The question shouldn’t be to point out lies from a person on one side and label that entire side “bad / wrong / liars”. You demean yourself by sinking to their level.

I want the Federal Government out of health care and countless other programs they have no business being in. I hope any and all versions of these bills fail.

But calling Obama a liar during the speech was wrong. It needn’t be defended by ‘but he hit me first’ statements.

“Should we take a harder line? Force people to prove citizenship in emergency rooms? That’s illegal, for good reason. Make verification requirements so onerous that not a single illegal immigrant slips through? Very expensive, and not smart. It would be highly likely to snag deserving citizens — like old people who don’t have their original birth certificates. And besides, we’ve tried that: A House oversight committee reviewed six state Medicaid programs in 2007 and found that verification rules had cost the federal government an additional $8.3 million. They caught exactly eight illegal immigrants.
In the case of an epidemic, like swine flu, should illegal immigrants go untreated so they can infect legal residents and American citizens?

Hard-line Republicans insist that they will fight for citizenship verification. They could, in theory, get the country to spend whatever it takes to do that and proudly report back to their voters. But there is a line beyond which antipathy to the undocumented can be damaging to those voters’ health, not to mention the federal budget. Mr. Wilson and his admirers seem to have crossed it.”

You’re so blind with anger you can’t even see straight. Now conservatives are threatening to use arguments for states’ rights that straight out of the Jim Crow era.
And you find everyone to blame but yourself.

I’m commenting from up in Canada and I’ve been saying the same thing for a long time.

Gee, thanks for your esteemed opinion, but no one cares what dimwitted Canucks think about policy matters in the US – come to think of it, no one even gives a rat’s ass about Canada as a country, if they think of it at all.

I like to think I see things a little more clearly than you Yanks who have your faces jammed up against it.

Again, thanks for the brilliant retort in your drive – by Trolling. But before you disappear as usual, please answer the following questions about how awesome your healthcare system is, OK?

– why are there so many private medical practices appearing all over Canada, despite it being against the law?

– if your system is so wonderful, why are Canadian citizens opting out and paying for private medical care out of their own pockets?

– why are so many Canadian citizens crossing the border into the US to receive critical medical care?

– why was Natasha Richardson airlifted to a hospital hundreds of miles away from where she was injured, despite the ski resort being located within a major metropolitan area? Why did none of the local hospitals have even one MRI and CT – Scan machine within their walls?

The question I’m about to ask is honestly not meant in any sort of “gotcha” way, or to be a jerk or anything – but how does your being OK with this square with your being upset with someone saying “I hope he fails” on the radio a few months back? Is the situation different, or has reality changed in some way?

Dmac,
I could be wrong, but Fred Z. is not saying that the Canadian Health Care system is better. I think what he is saying is that 0 is not lying but actually believes the ideology he is peddling.

From a Canadian persepctive, they have had to muddle through their ineffective health care delivery system and I don’t think he would disagree with your questions, other than the ones where you insulted him, but hey, you thought he was coming from HuffPo or something.

Don’t know anything about the product you are selling, then anything you tell “is not a lie” to the salesman–because he does not know any better.

To the customer, it looks like the truth–because there are not any of the human physiological signs of telling falsehoods–because the person telling them “believes” they are the truth.

Pres. Obama is trying the exact oposite of what Pres. Clinton and First Lady Hillary Clinton did in the first “reform plan”. Pres. Obama’s lesson was that the Clinton’s were too involved and failed.

Pres. Obama’s plan is to stay out of the legislation loop… That way he has plausible deny-ability.

And, of course, the Congress is keeping the legislation in the back room telling us that HR 3200 (etc.) is not the “final bill” so every one complaining “about Health Care Reforms” are not telling the truth–because there is no “truth” release yet.

When “the bill” is ready for signature–The Democrats will tell us, again, the time for debate is over and time for immediate action is now–For a bill that will have a 4+ year time delay to ensure that Pres. Obama is reelected again before the health care bill destroys medicine in the US.

Nothing more than a mutli-trillion dollar 3-Card-Monty game. Sad. Very sad.

I kind of like that he yelled it out–Obama has been lying from the beginning about this. But it was impolitic, and it wasn’t the correct forum. Yeah, it’s galling when Obama had just gotten through saying people who disagreed with him lied, but it was his forum. I haven’t forgotten the booing and hissing from Democrats during some of Bush’s speeches (e.g. 2005 SOTU) but at the same time Republicans should easily be able to hold themselves above the standards of the Democrats. It’s not like they have set the bar very high.

Basically, he should have waited until afterwards to say that Obama lied through his teeth the entire speech.

Although, again, I’m really not upset at Joe Wilson. I just can’t bring myself to be upset at him.

Let’s step back a second. I heard this emergency room strawman last night on Smerconish, who just entered the LA market.

It is the law to treat anyone who presents in emergency rooms regardless of their ability to pay. The ER’s are reimbursed by Medi-Cal. It isn’t equitable but that is a different discussion.

This has nothing do with the government take-over of health care. Furthermore, they acted as if there was no public health care system already in place. It is not the best system, but if you can’t afford care, it is the care that is afforded to you.

Now we are saying that everyone who has worked hard to make sacrifices and enjoys a good living now has to pay for everyone else who didn’t because they are now entitled to those things you worked for?

Does the phrase “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” ring a bell to you? It should, you probably heard it enough in college.

All congressional Republicans should’ve joined in with Joe. They should’ve been even more demonstrative than they were. The Dems didn’t have any problem with boorish behavior (the loathsome Pete Stark comes to mind.)

Joe was right to question the pres and right to do it in that manner. The only thing Joe was wrong about was apologizing. Stick to yer damn guns.

I think it was Meghan’s daddy what helped bully Joe into apologizing. He went on the CNN to agree with his CNN pals that Republicans are big meanie faces except for him and it’s not his fault and Joe Wilson needs to apologize or my illiterate fat daughter will be extra super vocal about it on twitter is what he said. Preening geriatric has-been.

BTW, there is a Pete Stark vid where he states on the congressional floor that Booosh only got us into Iraq to get his jollies off when our soldiers had their heads blown off. Funny, I had no idea about this nutbag’s most atrocious act until yesterday – even though it happened a few years ago.

“Some of people’s concerns have grown out of bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. The best example is the claim, made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Such a charge would be laughable if it weren’t so cynical and irresponsible. It is a lie, plain and simple.”–The New Messiah

If you’re going to call other people liars, then you have no kick when someone returns the favor.

Obama supporters, quit your whining.

And, there ARE going to be so-called death panels in ANY health care system, so quit lying about it. And, in any government controlled system sooner or later some government functionary is going to decide whether someone ought to live or die.

‘PORTLAND, Ore. — Some terminally ill patients in Oregon who turned to their state for health care were denied treatment and offered doctor-assisted suicide instead, a proposal some experts have called a “chilling” corruption of medical ethics.’

‘Since the spread of his prostate cancer, 53-year-old Randy Stroup of Dexter, Ore., has been in a fight for his life. Uninsured and unable to pay for expensive chemotherapy, he applied to Oregon’s state-run health plan for help.’

‘Lane Individual Practice Association (LIPA), which administers the Oregon Health Plan in Lane County, responded to Stroup’s request with a letter saying the state would not cover Stroup’s pricey treatment, but would pay for the cost of physician-assisted suicide.’

‘”It dropped my chin to the floor,” Stroup told FOX News. “[How could they] not pay for medication that would help my life, and yet offer to pay to end my life?”‘

‘The letter, which has been sent to other terminal patients throughout Oregon, follows guidelines established by the state legislature.’

“why was Natasha Richardson airlifted to a hospital hundreds of miles away from where she was injured, despite the ski resort being located within a major metropolitan area? Why did none of the local hospitals have even one MRI and CT – Scan machine within their walls?
How come, eh?
Comment by Dmac — 9/11/2009 @ 9:03 am”

Exactly. It made no sense to me why she died. She had a treatable condition. Even if there was no neurosurgeon available many an ER doc could have drilled a burr hole to relieve the pressure.

A 20 year old CT scan picked up from the radiology junk yard probably would have been adequate to pick this up.

I had first thought somebody must have made a big mistake for her to have died, thinking it was a doctor. It appears the big mistake was that Ms. Richardson “chose” to have her skiing accident in Canada.

You Lie is not helping himself by playing the hero role on right-wing TV. But in his district, maybe he is. He’s hurting his party however, the leaders of which asked him to apologize on the house floor and avoid the above action. You Lie declined, hopefully politely this time.

Money totals so far: You Lie $200,000 Rob Miller $750,000.

You guys better get on the ball.

Really, this is way overblown and the whole thing is theater. Something to do while we wait for a health care reform bill to pass.

On that score: Dem leaders are reported to be softening on the public option. That was the last major area of disagreement from the Democratic perspective, and since Republicans are mostly not participating, we are about done with the hardest part, with the rest being the specifics to be worked out.

Obama was the one who called people who disagree with him liars and then made a promise/threat to call them out.

Then Obama got called out on his lie and got his knickers in a twist.

Obama paraphrased:
There are some people out there lying about what is in this bill and we are going to call them out

Wilson paraphrased: OK then, let’s start now… LIAR!

Obama’s speech was typical of his long winded nebulous ramblings.
Here he was referring to “this bill”; there he was referring to some vague past event; and then he went off into future fantasyland… sometimes it seemed all in the same paragraph.

Did he back away from single payer, or did he affirm it?
I thought he did both.

Obama said illegals would not be covered but he offered no specifics on how he would convince Pelosi to ever include a verification clause.
And lets face it, we know illegals will be covered and will be jamming emergency rooms with “possible TB” or “swine flu” every time they get strep throat. No one wants an epidemic
If Obama is as smart and well versed as his acolytes believe him to be, then Obama must already know that he not as powerful as Pelosi on verification via health care ID card or valid SS# and additionally knows that he also is going to have to cover illegals with “swine flu-like” symptoms with taxpayer dollars.

Obama also must be smart enough to know that not a dime of recovered government waste has ever gone anywhere except back into the same wasteful system.

“Brendan Daly, a spokesman for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, said Friday that party leaders decided they will likely move forward with a resolution of disapproval against Wilson if he doesn’t apologize to Congress.”

As a conservative, I don’t believe this story is one that should be pushed. Keep finding and airing the bad ideas presented by your elected officals. Hold them accountable, sure; but trumpeting Joe Wilson for what, in his own view, was wrong – that’s not the way to get us on the right track.

Does the ‘other side’ play nice? No – many do not. Does that make it right to ‘give them a taste of their own medicine’? No. It just gives them more fuel for the next round.

Federal employees on both sides will use issues like this for their own agenda – and as fodder to trump up their own ideas.

We need to focus on the important issues. Like reducing the size and function of government.

It is the law to treat anyone who presents in emergency rooms regardless of their ability to pay. The ER’s are reimbursed by Medi-Cal. It isn’t equitable but that is a different discussion.

Sorry but you have this wrong. The only people who get signed up for Medicaid are those eligible. The illegals are just the cost of taking ER call for the doc and the cost of doing business for the hospital. I have spent 40 years taking care of illegals. Never got a dime.

Moron thinks Wilson hurts Republicans. We’ll see. I doubt it. The reason Wilson’s opponent got $500,000 in the two days since the comment is that Moveon.org moves on fast. It takes longer for the real voters to act.

“While acknowledging that the recession makes the political battle more difficult, President Obama plans to begin addressing the country’s immigration system this year, including looking for a path for illegal immigrants to become legal, a senior administration official said on Wednesday.”

Of course, we all know how illegal immigrants are going to be covered if Communist Health Care (aka Obamacare) gets passed. They’re just going to make all the illegal aliens magically turn into legal aliens with an amnesty program.

In terms of death panels, he called a lie what it is, a lie. I believe factcheck.org gives “death panels” a “pants on fire” rating.

We don’t know whether his plan will be deficit neutral, since I don’t believe he’s laid out a plan. So it seems premature to call that a lie.

I don’t know about Raddatz.

In any case, none of that has anything to do with Wilson turning the chamber into a circus. That’s a separate matter. I thought his initial apology was fine, but when he started taking on the hero role, which for me, was a bridge too far.

Are we making heroes out of boors now? This is what constitutes leadership?

When ANYONE is giving a speech at the time and place appointed for the speech, it is just plain RUDE to heckle. So, while Representative Joe Wilson was correct on the merits (i.e., the President was dissembling), he, Wilson, should have saved his comments for his own interviews and press conferences afterwards.

I would have no problem with this saying that the President was presenting a false picture and Joe Wilson even saying that he believes that the President was, in essence, lying when he made the statement about illegal immigrants.

By the way, in an interview I saw on Fox News Channel, Joe Wilson was more eloquent in his apology than in explaining that Dems had voted down amendments to actually enforce the purported ban on coverage to illegal aliens.

Judge Andrew Napolitano, during a segment of another FNC show, stated that (i) he, Napolitano, believed that precluding illegal aliens from coverage would be held unconstitutional under a case which had struck down California’s Prop. 87, and (ii) that the President, a former constitutional law instructor, probably knew that denying coverage to illegal aliens would be ruled unconstitutional and, thus, there is another ground for asserting that the President is not being candid.

The important thing to remember is that Mr. Wilson was right. The little president man is a liar, and it’s his little dirty socialist lies what are the pretext for his government health care scheme. And the dirty socialists know it, and the dirty socialists know you know it.

Corwin: I like this analogy b/c this is how I’m bound to feel about the reform that passes, without a public option. A home run, but not a real one.

Anyway, there are plenty of intelligent conservative voices who raise worthy objections to the Democratic plans. But those voices are not running the debate from the GOP side.

I think the spending piece is so dizzying, that the GOP could spend all its time talking about that, then coming to the table and helping craft a bill we can all feel comfortable with. But that simply won’t happen in this partisan atmosphere.

When politicians pick up the death panel mantle, or make a hero out of the boor, Joe Wilson, they simply earn the right to be ignored.

Myron – That is incredibly disingenuous of you. The CBO says the plans out there have hundreds of billions of deficits, unsustainable deficits. Convenient that his lack of a plan is used by you to defend his position, but the existing plans do not even give a wink or a nod to deficit neutrality, unless unsustainable deficits is now neutral.

SPQR had extensive quotes up about Raddatz yesterday, and the Raddatz family testimony in the Congressional record directly contradicts the horror story/fairy tale that Teh One told.

If you think rationing of care, and Medical Effectiveness Panels (already passed in the “stimulus”) are lies, then you and I live on different planets.

And, while they’re working on an amnesty program that will make illegal aliens into legal aliens, so that they will be covered under Obamacare (or KarlMarxcare or whatever you want to call it) the Dems are making sure that there will be no effective verification of citizenship under the proposed plan…

“On Friday, Democrats moved one step closer to giving free health insurance to the nation’s estimated 12 million illegal aliens when they successfully defeated a Republican-backed amendment, offered by Rep. Dean Heller, R-Nev., that would have prevented illegal aliens from receiving government-subsidized health care under the proposed plan backed by House Democrats and President Barack Obama.”

“…Republicans, however, point out that the Democrats, by refusing to accept the Heller amendment, would deny health agencies from conducting simple database checks to verify citizenship. Many states give illegals driver licenses, which will be sufficient to get free health care under the plan.”

“Critics also contend that millions of illegals who already have counterfeit Social Security cards or other fraudulent documents. There is no enforcement mechanism in the legislation, experts say, to prevent illegals who use fake IDs to obtain jobs from also obtaining taxpayer-subsidized health insurance.”

The CBO says the plans out there have hundreds of billions of deficits, unsustainable deficits.

Those aren’t Obama’s plans, as I’m sure you know, they are the House’s plans.

As for rationing, care will be rationed in some way, no matter what plan we come up with, or whether we stick to the current plan. Care right now is rationed by income level. It is also rationed by availability of doctors and specialists in certain communities. Also, by availability of staff and facilities.

The hospital in my city gets generally high marks from industry groups, but some people still complain about long ER waits in certain cases. That’s a form of rationing.

If Obama can really make this deficit neutral by cutting, saving, etc. – as he has said he can – than THAT is where he should direct Congress. Do the cuts, make the efficiencies, initiate real tort reform (most of which would be by getting the Fed’s noses out of business). Do all the things he claims will bring about enough savings to do any of the ‘spending’ parts they want.

IF, and I really don’t believe that’s possible… but IF that is accomplished and IF real $$ savings are made – then they can look at how they might want to spend it. (although my real hope would be for them to use it to reduce the deficit, debt and taxes.) All that being said, I’m not holding my breath.

LIPA IS PRIVATE
Lane Individual Practice Association, Inc is a private company categorized under Medical field-related associations and located in Eugene, OR. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of $10,300,000 and employs a staff of approximately 80

“The insurance company that administers the Oregon Health Plan
in Lane County treated clients, providers and medical vendors so poorly at times that it violated state and federal regulations, state investigators have concluded in a preliminary report.

State and federal officials began investigating the Lane Individual Practice Association, known as LIPA, last year in response to a series of complaints compiled by Eugene lawyer Tim Baxter, who advocates for poor and disabled clients at the Lane County Law and Advocacy Center.”

Myron exemplifies the fundamental dishonesty of the Left in the way they have chosen to approach this issue. Were this such a great and popular idea, they would be clear, straight-forward, and lay out their actual plan. As is, they point to the House Bill, the various Senate Bills, and Barcky’s failure of leadership to even have a plan, whenever is most convenient.

“Should we take a harder line? Force people to prove citizenship in emergency rooms? That’s illegal, for good reason. Make verification requirements so onerous that not a single illegal immigrant slips through? Very expensive, and not smart. It would be highly likely to snag deserving citizens — like old people who don’t have their original birth certificates. And besides, we’ve tried that: A House oversight committee reviewed six state Medicaid programs in 2007 and found that verification rules had cost the federal government an additional $8.3 million. They caught exactly eight illegal immigrants.
In the case of an epidemic, like swine flu, should illegal immigrants go untreated so they can infect legal residents and American citizens?”
The quote is from the NYT, but since the NYT= Jyllands-Posten=Le Monde=Asahi Shinbun= Pravda, you won’t believe it.

If the Democrat leadership decides to try to censure Rep. Wilson, they have to use Parliamentary Rules … which permits Rep. Wilson, I suspect, to go on the self-same Congressional Record with something along the lines of

“I apologize to my honorable colleagues for having used an intemperate phrasing. I should have said “You utter termionological inexactitudes.” or “Your veracity is that of Baghdad Bob !” – both of which are acceptable parliamentary phrasings. Or would you have preferred that I say “Another prominent politician just uttered words that are a lie, plain and simple.” ? You have permitted such language in this very house, with nary a hint of the need for censure – so censure both of us or censure neither of us.”

I’m not sure that Representatives here think in such parliamentary terms – a study of Churchill’s speeches would give useful pointers.

As for rationing, care will be rationed in some way, no matter what plan we come up with, or whether we stick to the current plan. Care right now is rationed by income level. It is also rationed by availability of doctors and specialists in certain communities. Also, by availability of staff and facilities.

The hospital in my city gets generally high marks from industry groups, but some people still complain about long ER waits in certain cases. That’s a form of rationing.

Comment by Myron

You are either ignorant or a fool. You could start by looking up the definition of rationing. You probably think that GM rations Cadillacs by making you pay $35,000 for one.

There are junior colleges that would be willing to try to teach you economics. There is this thing called price. Then, of course, there is the Marxist theory of value. Which are you using ?

Dictionary.com–noun
1. a fixed allowance of provisions or food, esp. for soldiers or sailors or for civilians during a shortage: a daily ration of meat and bread.
2. an allotted amount: They finally saved up enough gas rations for the trip.
3. rations,
a. provisions: Enough rations were brought along to feed all the marchers.
b. Chiefly South Atlantic States. food or meals: The old hotel still has the best rations in town.
–verb (used with object)
4. to supply, apportion, or distribute as rations (often fol. by out): to ration out food to an army.
5. to supply or provide with rations: to ration an army with food.
6. to restrict the consumption of (a commodity, food, etc.): to ration meat during war.
7. to restrict the consumption of (a consumer): The civilian population was rationed while the war lasted.
Origin:
1540–50; < F < L ratiōn- (s. of ratiō); see reason

Does that help you, ignoramus? I am sorry; I don’t suffer fools well. Did you notice that the definition ALWAYS involves some person or agency that determines what you can have and not have ? The definition includes coercion and never mentions price or free choice.

Alasdair, not even Nancy Pelosi is stupid enough to drag this out by trying to censure Wilson. She started to do it but someone with more sense shut her up and hoped it would blow over. The lefty blogs will continue the stupidity, which is fine with me. It steps all over Obama’s message and that is hilarious. Mr Organizer can’t get out of his own way.

“The insurance company that administers the Oregon Health Plan in Lane County treated clients, providers and medical vendors so poorly at times that it violated state and federal regulations, state investigators have concluded in a preliminary report.”

Definitely a strong argument in favor of government controlled health insurance plans.

It’s important to reflect now and again that’s it’s limp-wristed simpering twats like Mark McKinnon what would have been in our White House if the dirty socialist had lost. It wasn’t exactly a win-win proposition for our little country, that 2008 business.

Wilson went from easy victory to being one point behind, after his lie.
“In a matter of seconds Joe Wilson turned himself from a safe incumbent into one of the most vulnerable Republicans in the country for 2010,” said Dean Debnam, President of Public Policy Polling.” http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_SC_9111023.pdf

The improtantest thing to remember is that the little dirty socialist president man was lying. The media like the NPR and the Newsweek were too cowardly to call him out on it. Corpulent Meghan’s coward daddy was too cowardly to call him out on it. But not Joe Wilson. Joe Wilson stood up for truth. He’s the only one what did.

Corwin: I can live with all your suggestions in comment No. 83, despite what JD calls my “fundamental dishonesty.”

Here is what I would like to see additionally: Do you remember when the president said something to the effect that, if the plan started to cost more than expected, the additional costs would have to be made up in cuts?

I think the Blue Dogs should get strong language in the bill holding him to that. I’m a big believer in pay-go, which is what Congress was doing pre-Bush.

JW – That is an aggressive lie. I did not speak to your hypothetical, I directed a comment towards EW1 about how your ilk places the value of an identity politics group ahead of the value of an individual. Others spoke directly to your inane hypothetical. I will await your retraction, you f*cking liar.

You are fundamentally dishonest. Just look at the rhetorical gymanstics you have tried to go through to show that there is even a hint of fiscal sanity in this legislation. Unsustainable deficits. CBO’s words, not mine. Not having a plan is no defense of the excessive spending contained in these bills. I guess we will have to wait and see if he veto’s the House or Senate bills, since they passed deficit neutral the moment they began putting pen to paper.

You take stupidity to new lows. You obviously know nothing about the socialist haven that is the National Hippie Preserve.

#93

Well, JD, I wasn’t the one who said Soros…

Nobody else here did either, bumsqueak. You really shouldn’t oughta go around trying to put words in other’s mouths when you damn well don’t know what the heck you are talking about in the first place.

For the record and for future reference: I have a screen name on this blog, Myron. I don’t respond to any other names or insults. As soon as I see you’re going that way, I stop reading.
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On that note, I am out of here for today. I’m going to the county fair.
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Comment by Myron — 9/11/2009 @ 1:57 pm

Either answer the original question put to you, “Pat,” or put a sock in that enormous blowhole of yours. Answer the question or else get ready for it to be replayed ad infinitum until you grab your nutsack and/or female parts and suffer the consequences.

Does this commenter suddenly remind one of the Nigerian athlete that was just found to be basically a shemale?

Look you guys who get to pick and choose what you want to defend or rebut by saying that, “there is no bill, so how he could he lie” are peeing in the wind. The only bill that is debatable is HR3200 and all debate revolves around that. And for you that are defending BHO’s “non lies” need to look at that provision of the bill that declares that if any person in a household is a citizen, then all persons in the household are considered eligible regardless of their citizenship status.

Rep. King has a CBO estimate that that would currently cover 5.6 million illegal aliens.

There isn’t any question that Wilson’s charge that Obama was lying was valid, since the Senate will soon modify the bill’s language in order to fix what Obama was lying about. The story, from Hot Air, was linked above in comment #89.

Tell us what the “non lies” consist of, rls – and then we’ll talk. Be specific with your examples and show your work via objective sourcing. Rep. King is not using Elemendorf’s final numbers, so your source is called out as fraudulent.

nk, thank you for the correction – it is indeed unfortunate, but the child’s parents and the South African track officials made it exponentially worse through their strenuous denials prior to the testing. Any top track event’s athletes in this day and age will be scupulously examined at will, due to Ben Johnson, Flo Jo, Marion Jones, etc.

Here is what I would like to see additionally: Do you remember when the president said something to the effect that, if the plan started to cost more than expected, the additional costs would have to be made up in cuts?

I think the Blue Dogs should get strong language in the bill holding him to that. I’m a big believer in pay-go, which is what Congress was doing pre-Bush.

There’s no way to enforce such language. Even you must be able to grasp that. So it’s just window dressing.

That being said, Obama has not lied – at least not yet. He says (or claims) that it won’t cover illegals. Since there isn’t any law yet, and we don’t know what will be in it – only what has been proposed and debated so far, there is no lie.

Is there ANY version at all with ANY provision to determine if someone is or is not an illegal alien because as it stands it is in fact illegal to try to verify this,

Corwin, how would you respond to a Border Security Bill that not only did NOT have a provision to check if someone entering the Country was doing so legally but in fact any proposed provision of that nature had been voted DOWN by the Party in Power?

Tim Rutten has a revealing column today in the LA TImes. He accuses Wilson, and the GOP, of being “anti-immigrant” for telling Obama he lied about illegals being eligible for the health plan. If that’s the case, why didn’t Obama just tell Congress that they were included ? Rutten wants it both ways, and may get it since the press is very incurious about all this. Obama says illegals are not included, Wilson says he lied about it and Wilson is anti-immigrant but Obama isn’t.