So now supposedly the inept Lions can't even keep the OC that was coming to town. It doesn't say much for Caldwell if the rumors are all true and Caldwell and the Lions had decided on Lazor and then he bails on them for Miami. Gonna be interested how this plays out.

January 15th, 2014, 12:12 pm

TADOne

Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

Joined: April 27th, 2005, 3:26 pmPosts: 1776

Re: Lions Hire Jim Caldwell as HC

Well, it is being reported that Bill Lazor is going to be the new OC for the Dolphins, even though it was reported yesterday that he had accepted the same position with the Lions. It appears the Lions have lost their top choice again.......

_________________Regards,

Tim

January 15th, 2014, 12:14 pm

vankman79

Div 1 - Starter

Joined: August 19th, 2010, 9:24 pmPosts: 584

Re: Lions Hire Jim Caldwell as HC

Touchdown Jesus wrote:

TruckinMack wrote:

Blueskies wrote:

He isn't a first time coach.

He feels like one. His stint with the Colts after Dungy left seems more of an Assistant Head Coach filling in while he boss was away.

Still, that experience should have him better prepared for taking over the Lions. To quote an AD I once met, "When it comes to taking over as a coach, it's not what you know, or what you know you don't know, it's what you don't know you don't know."

That's sounds like Donald Rumsfeld, but it wasn't.

It's probably true for a lot of management.

And to get back to my point, in the last 20-25 years, have any 58 year old hires turned into successful NFL coaches?

Well, here's a few that are current head coaches that are doing ok:

Bruce Arians (61) seems to have Arizona moving in the right direction, and he did well as a fill in head coach in Indy last year.Trestman (58) in Chicago also seems to have them doing well, at least offensively.John Fox was named head coach of Denver at 56 and they're kicking butt (Peyton Manning effect).Tom Coughlin took over the Giants when he was 57 or 58 and has won a couple super bowls.

The bottom line is that if he's a good coach, his age doesn't really matter. Good coaches win at all age levels, and bad coaches lose at all age levels.

Bill Belichick - 61

January 15th, 2014, 12:15 pm

sweetd20

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 amPosts: 2451

Re: Lions Hire Jim Caldwell as HC

The Harbaugh brothers are doing pretty well and John went from ST coach to HC.

He feels like one. His stint with the Colts after Dungy left seems more of an Assistant Head Coach filling in while he boss was away.

Still, that experience should have him better prepared for taking over the Lions. To quote an AD I once met, "When it comes to taking over as a coach, it's not what you know, or what you know you don't know, it's what you don't know you don't know."

That's sounds like Donald Rumsfeld, but it wasn't.

It's probably true for a lot of management.

And to get back to my point, in the last 20-25 years, have any 58 year old hires turned into successful NFL coaches?

Well, here's a few that are current head coaches that are doing ok:

Bruce Arians (61) seems to have Arizona moving in the right direction, and he did well as a fill in head coach in Indy last year.Trestman (58) in Chicago also seems to have them doing well, at least offensively.John Fox was named head coach of Denver at 56 and they're kicking butt (Peyton Manning effect).Tom Coughlin took over the Giants when he was 57 or 58 and has won a couple super bowls.

The bottom line is that if he's a good coach, his age doesn't really matter. Good coaches win at all age levels, and bad coaches lose at all age levels.

Bill Belichick - 61

Yeah but Belichek was hired well before he was 58. I believe TruckinMack was asking about coaches hired at 58 who became successful.

_________________"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson

January 15th, 2014, 12:39 pm

chilledmonkeybrains

Pop Warner Vet

Joined: March 11th, 2010, 4:39 pmPosts: 127

Re: Lions Hire Jim Caldwell as HC

So much doom and gloom!

If there is one thing the media does, it's screw up information. I reserve judgement until I KNOW how things played out. I like Caldwell because he fits what we need and I look forward to seeing what he does here. So much focus on the 2-14 Colts and one bad call during a playoff game, you'd think the rest of the time he was running around raping grandmothers. SMH! If Jesus Christ descended from Heaven to take the HC job there would be complaining.

It's funny too how many people want SB pedigree but refuse to acknowledge the 2-14 season was the only one he wasn't in the post season as a coordinator/HC. Someone on here shared a telling statistic: No SB winning coach that retired has EVER come back and gone back to the SB.

If Stafford cleans up we will be insanely good. It will be Wiz' loss when we pull everything together (not that I ever felt he was the perfect match anyway)

_________________Slow is smooth, smooth is steady, steady is fast!

January 15th, 2014, 1:26 pm

TruckinMack

Lionbacker Rehab Guru

Joined: January 26th, 2006, 9:08 pmPosts: 1262

Re: Lions Hire Jim Caldwell as HC

Touchdown Jesus wrote:

Well, here's a few that are current head coaches that are doing ok:

Bruce Arians (61) seems to have Arizona moving in the right direction, and he did well as a fill in head coach in Indy last year.Trestman (58) in Chicago also seems to have them doing well, at least offensively.John Fox was named head coach of Denver at 56 and they're kicking butt (Peyton Manning effect).Tom Coughlin took over the Giants when he was 57 or 58 and has won a couple super bowls.

The bottom line is that if he's a good coach, his age doesn't really matter. Good coaches win at all age levels, and bad coaches lose at all age levels.

Arians and Trestman are indeed coaches hired late in their careers and with fairly thin resumes. It's too soon to tell on either of them. I like Arians 10-6. Trestman's 8-8 is nothing to get excited about even for a diehard Lions fan. Fox and Coughlin were a little younger when they took over (56 and 54), but more important, they spent 9 and 8 years, respectively, as HC's prior to their current gig.

Caldwell, Trestman and Arains are all quite similar regarding their age , thin resume and new or nearly new to the HC gig. Older and wiser may pay off. Let's hope.

If my math is correct Coughlin was 54 when he took over the Giants, Fox

_________________Climate Change - happening every second, of every minute of every day ever since the world was created. Needless to say it's man's fault.

Bruce Arians (61) seems to have Arizona moving in the right direction, and he did well as a fill in head coach in Indy last year.Trestman (58) in Chicago also seems to have them doing well, at least offensively.John Fox was named head coach of Denver at 56 and they're kicking butt (Peyton Manning effect).Tom Coughlin took over the Giants when he was 57 or 58 and has won a couple super bowls.

The bottom line is that if he's a good coach, his age doesn't really matter. Good coaches win at all age levels, and bad coaches lose at all age levels.

Arians and Trestman are indeed coaches hired late in their careers and with fairly thin resumes. It's too soon to tell on either of them. I like Arians 10-6. Trestman's 8-8 is nothing to get excited about even for a diehard Lions fan. Fox and Coughlin were a little younger when they took over (56 and 54), but more important, they spent 9 and 8 years, respectively, as HC's prior to their current gig.

Caldwell, Trestman and Arains are all quite similar regarding their age , thin resume and new or nearly new to the HC gig. Older and wiser may pay off. Let's hope.

If my math is correct Coughlin was 54 when he took over the Giants, Fox

Yep, I agree it's too soon to tell on Trestman and Arians. I was just pointing them out as guys who seem to be on the right track.

On another note, something I've been thinking about with regards to Caldwell (and coaches in general): I keep seeing people saying (in a variety of forms) that Caldwell had good seasons, but only when Manning was his QB. When Manning left, it all fell apart. Well duh. Can anyone name a coach who has had success without a good QB? For all the talk over the years about what a great coach Belichick is, if the Pats hadn't gotten completely lucky on Brady, Belichick is likely seen as a good, maybe even an average coach. Look at his record before Brady. He was 41-55. The season that Brady took over for Bledsoe (2001), the great and wonderful Belichick still started Bledsoe over Brady until Bledsoe got hurt. I'm looking at the list of the most wins by NFL coaches in history, and with very few exceptions (Schottenheimer, Jeff Fisher) they all had great QBs, especially in the modern era. Let's take a look (considering generally only the modern era):

On the flip side, for many of these coaches, during the times when they didn't have great QB play, their records stunk, or were at best average. The truth is that no team is going to win without at the very least good (and more likely great) QB play. And no coach, regardless of how good they are, can win without it either. So you can't really fault Cladwell for the team slumping after Manning left. Given how that team was structured, it was bound to happen.

All that said, I'm not sure how Caldwell will do. I'm not thrilled with his in-game decision making, so we'll see. I'm just saying that we shouldn't write him off just yet....

_________________"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson

January 15th, 2014, 2:25 pm

TruckinMack

Lionbacker Rehab Guru

Joined: January 26th, 2006, 9:08 pmPosts: 1262

Re: Lions Hire Jim Caldwell as HC

Touchdown Jesus wrote:

TruckinMack wrote:

Touchdown Jesus wrote:

Well, here's a few that are current head coaches that are doing ok:

Bruce Arians (61) seems to have Arizona moving in the right direction, and he did well as a fill in head coach in Indy last year.Trestman (58) in Chicago also seems to have them doing well, at least offensively.John Fox was named head coach of Denver at 56 and they're kicking butt (Peyton Manning effect).Tom Coughlin took over the Giants when he was 57 or 58 and has won a couple super bowls.

The bottom line is that if he's a good coach, his age doesn't really matter. Good coaches win at all age levels, and bad coaches lose at all age levels.

Arians and Trestman are indeed coaches hired late in their careers and with fairly thin resumes. It's too soon to tell on either of them. I like Arians 10-6. Trestman's 8-8 is nothing to get excited about even for a diehard Lions fan. Fox and Coughlin were a little younger when they took over (56 and 54), but more important, they spent 9 and 8 years, respectively, as HC's prior to their current gig.

Caldwell, Trestman and Arains are all quite similar regarding their age , thin resume and new or nearly new to the HC gig. Older and wiser may pay off. Let's hope.

If my math is correct Coughlin was 54 when he took over the Giants, Fox

Yep, I agree it's too soon to tell on Trestman and Arians. I was just pointing them out as guys who seem to be on the right track.

On another note, something I've been thinking about with regards to Caldwell (and coaches in general): I keep seeing people saying (in a variety of forms) that Caldwell had good seasons, but only when Manning was his QB. When Manning left, it all fell apart. Well duh. Can anyone name a coach who has had success without a good QB? For all the talk over the years about what a great coach Belichick is, if the Pats hadn't gotten completely lucky on Brady, Belichick is likely seen as a good, maybe even an average coach. Look at his record before Brady. He was 41-55. The season that Brady took over for Bledsoe (2001), the great and wonderful Belichick still started Bledsoe over Brady until Bledsoe got hurt. I'm looking at the list of the most wins by NFL coaches in history, and with very few exceptions (Schottenheimer, Jeff Fisher) they all had great QBs, especially in the modern era. Let's take a look (considering generally only the modern era):

On the flip side, for many of these coaches, during the times when they didn't have great QB play, their records stunk, or were at best average. The truth is that no team is going to win without at the very least good (and more likely great) QB play. And no coach, regardless of how good they are, can win without it either. So you can't really fault Cladwell for the team slumping after Manning left. Given how that team was structured, it was bound to happen.

All that said, I'm not sure how Caldwell will do. I'm not thrilled with his in-game decision making, so we'll see. I'm just saying that we shouldn't write him off just yet....

Like

(Does Lionbacker have a 'Like' icon? And where might it be?)

_________________Climate Change - happening every second, of every minute of every day ever since the world was created. Needless to say it's man's fault.

January 15th, 2014, 3:36 pm

thelomasbrowns

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2539

Re: Lions Hire Jim Caldwell as HC

Just following on Twitter, but Caldwell seems to be killing it in his press conference. I think he's going to win some people over today.

_________________Jim Caldwell, on whether Jim Harbaugh is stealing his thunder: "Me? I don't have any thunder."

January 15th, 2014, 5:54 pm

njroar

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 amPosts: 2908

Re: Lions Hire Jim Caldwell as HC

thelomasbrowns wrote:

Just following on Twitter, but Caldwell seems to be killing it in his press conference. I think he's going to win some people over today.

I watched the live stream and he didn't seem so meh to me lol. He's confident, had a little swagger, was dropping bible verses and I think he's going to earn some respect pretty quickly. It sounded like whoever the OC is going to be, he's going to have some serious input on the play calling, even if he's not commenting on whether he'll be calling the plays or not.

I don't know if he's the best man for the job, but I think he's going to surprise us just a bit.

A buddy of mine that I went to high school with posted this on Facebook.

Quote:

I have been doing a little research and I have come to the conclusion that the Detroit Lions made the perfect choice for their head coach position. At least when it comes to Matthew Stafford and his development.

Jim Caldwell became the quarterbacks coach for the Indianapolis Colts in 2002 that is exactly four seasons in to Peyton Manning's career. Although Matthew Stafford has completed his fifth year in the NFL he only played 4 games in a second year due to injury.

Here is a comparison between Peyton Manning and Matthew Stafford before Jim Caldwell influence.

A buddy of mine that I went to high school with posted this on Facebook.

Quote:

I have been doing a little research and I have come to the conclusion that the Detroit Lions made the perfect choice for their head coach position. At least when it comes to Matthew Stafford and his development.

Jim Caldwell became the quarterbacks coach for the Indianapolis Colts in 2002 that is exactly four seasons in to Peyton Manning's career. Although Matthew Stafford has completed his fifth year in the NFL he only played 4 games in a second year due to injury.

Here is a comparison between Peyton Manning and Matthew Stafford before Jim Caldwell influence.

I would love to see Matt Stafford doing what Peyton Manning does at the line of scrimmage. Apparently, Caldwell wants the offense to run something similar to what Philly was runnning; not a hurry-up, but not a traditional huddle. It would surely beat giving the defense a full 20 seconds to adjust their playcalling after seeing the formation. If that's where this offense is headed, I like it. I like it a lot.I wouldn't even mind sticking with the wide-9 or a hybrid cover-2 on defense. If you ask me, the only thing keeping this defense from being elite was a few DBs and maybe tossing in a few more creative blitzes. The talent is there on defense with some coverage playmakers to run any type of 4-3 defense you want. Obviously the 4-3 still wins football games. The defense wasn't the achilles heel. I think the offensive playcalling, Stafford's decision making and untimely throws was the major downfall along with dropped passes. Nice analysis. I hope it means something.

January 15th, 2014, 9:08 pm

jrd66

National Champion

Joined: February 10th, 2005, 6:52 pmPosts: 859Location: Linden, MI

Re: Lions Hire Jim Caldwell as HC

I am a heretic, as we all know..

I think, on paper, Whisenhunt and Caldwell are essentially equal in terms of resume..

Caldwell has directly coached (to my understanding)

Kerry Collins at Penn StateBrad Johnson at TampaPeyton Manning at IndyJoe Flacco at BaltimoreMaybe Shaun King at Tampa, I am not sure there.Others I do not recall.

He was Head coach for Manning and Dan Orlovsky at IndyHe won Two SB as an assistant, and lost one as HC with a HOF QB on his team at that point.The team regressed when that HOF QB was not available, and he was fired. He did not select or draft a QB to lead the team as HC, as he was fired prior to the team drafting Andrew Luck.

Whisenhunt has directly coached (again, to my understanding. Fill in some names if you know more)

Ben Rothlesberger at Pitt

As OC: Phillip Rivers this year

He was intended to develop the young QB on the roster at the time, Matt Lineart. As HC, he has coached..

Kurt Warner.Matt LeinartDerek AndersonKevin Kolb.Luke McCown (I think, not sure)Others who I do not recall..

He won SB as an assistant at Pitt(1 or 2, not sure). He lost one as HC with a HOF QB on his team at that point. The team regressed when that HOF QB was not available, and he was given a chance to find a replacement.

He chose Kevin Kolb and did not achieve success afterwards. He was then fired..

What is it about these two coaches other than the outward appearance of the two men that lead folks to believe that there is a world of difference between them? Why is it so hard to imagine that they were not both reasonable candidates for the job?

I thought a few days ago about the fact that Whiz won with Warner, Not Leinart.. If you saw the NFL network show about Warner, earlier this year, it pretty much says exactly what Matty is saying in the press today. Warner showed up, found his fire and showed those guys how to get there..

The Lions didn't get Whiz.. I'm not sure we missed out.. Who was the last 'hot name' coach to show up and get to the promised land? I think it's Harbaugh, and he lost the SB to the 2nd choice of the Ravens when they did their last HC search..