The hunter must be brave and honorable. He must summon the courage to give up his right to own a gun so that those who do harm with guns are also not allowed to own one.

But so far it looks like hunters in America are just too plain selfish and cowardly to do that.

And, media or not, there are a lot of gun deaths in this country.

Once again, in my country a gun death would be national news. Not local news like it is here. You guys seem to accept gun murder as normal without thinking.

It is not normal for a child to get caught in the cross-fire anywhere. It is not normal for a child to take his father's gun to school anywhere. It is not normal for a member of Congress and six others to get shot anywhere.

Get my drift?

What you have going on here with guns is a national disaster. The welfare of the many must overrule the rights of the few.

I will tell you a true story here Ian, which will clearly illustrate how dark our national forests can get when no moon or other lighting is present. And, anyone who camps in the forest will appreciate and know this to be true. It is so dark in the forest when a full moon is not present, nor anyother lighting that you literally cannot see your hand in front of your face or the person walking in front of you.

This is what happened to me. My husband wanted to show our young sons the dump near our camp. When I say near, I mean about one hour driving. His near was not my near. It was already approaching dusk when we entered the closed and empty dump. We started walking through it, heard a water fall but couldn't see it, and we found some stuff to look at, showing the young boys all the waste and saying, " this is why we recycle." This was well before it was the in thing to do. We probably walked about a mile at least and then, as we turned around to head back the darkness hit. Suddenly, it was so dark that it became scary for I knew, the bears eat dinner here and were due. I was walking behind my husband, carrying my younger and lighter son, while holding onto the back of my husband's belt. Yes, it was that dark Ian. I needed to shift my son on my hip and when I did I lost my hold onto his belt. But, I could still hear his steps in front of me, the crunching of the leaves, and twigs. I just stayed in tune with the noise and when it stopped so did I, figuring he was trying to gain his bearing, his direction.

Then, I heard my husband's voice saying, " you still with me?" But, it was coming from another direction. I didn't think he was capable of throwing his voice but, I still reached out in front of me, and grabbed hard what I thought was his belt, and I pulled back a handful of what felt like was hair, and heard him, " growl...."

I was like... following a bear.

I very quietly stepped to the other side and kept stepping sidewards until, I thought I was where I heard his voice coming from. I whispered, " where are you?" He answered, " I am here..." and, I kept tuning into his voice until, I found him.

We found the entrance and exit to the dump. We got into the car, I showed him the hair, the clump of black hair, I had in my hand. When he started laughing, I wanted to shove it up his nose. I have that hair framed and when my kids were small, they loved to show people about the night their mom pulled it from a bear and their dad lived for their mom, to frame it.

Yet, Ian, there are also other dangers lurking in the woods. Especially, always come dusk.

For instance, this one night after dinner, we cooked out, I saw front the windows that way down front was a lone dog, and we had left overs. I can't stand to see anything hungry, it crushes me. So, I made this nice little doggy a plate and asked my hubby to walk it down front to feed him. Well, we were always a match made in heaven and he complied.

I didn't notice since I was busy cleaning up that he was gone for a while, and what was all that noise?

He then walked in handing me the plate saying, " the fox wasn't hungry."

We were driving through the mountains to our camp, a camp we loved and couldn't wait to get to. I love the mountain roads and always take notice of the glacial rocks, ( read up on them Ian) and other things, like maybe, a good place to look for fossils or sometimes, I notice an animal which needs help.

This one day, I noticed this cat, sitting all by himself, in the middle of nowhere. I asked my hubby to turn around so we could get this cat and help him. Without so much a grumble he turns around and parks the car walking down to the cat. I turned around in my seat to watch him grab a Bobcat.

The cat started snarling and attacking and the kids and I watched in amazement at how fast daddy could run. Back in the car, with a few bleeding scratches, he said, " he didn't want picked up."

Had a nice Sparrow dinner once when the ol' man caught me blasting a treeful. Made a lasting point. Plucking sparrows is hard work.

Click to expand...

On the other hand if you had emptied both barrels with #9 bird shot into a tree loaded with starlings... (That pesky invasive species that came here from England) He would have given you a pat on the back and a job well done...

Yes, yes, yes, Red, I love birds, but, those take down feeders, they swung my trees like you saw in the video and honestly, they scare away most all other birds. I love birds, but, it is very hard to feed them. You just can't. And, the mess, everywhere. I am very tolerate of them, but got to admit I get disgusted with the mess they can make. There are just so many. That video is very true...

Whether we agree with Ian or not I believe he does have a valid argument. Looking at the numbers it is clear to see that more people are killed with handguns then are saved by them. Thousands of people are killed annually with handguns. The number people saved by handguns each year is pale in comparison. Most people that conceal carry do not have enough training to adequately defend themselves in a confrontation.

Most gun ranges don't allow "shooting from the holster" and dry fire exercises, while helpful, are not commonly practiced.

I think guns do provide people with an illusion of security. I know searches will come up with anecdotal evidence of individuals being saved from attackers or animals with guns. And I can not deny it can and does happen. The argument is simply that this is uncommon and more harm is done that good as a whole.

However... Our constitution protects this right. And we have decided that this right is worth the price of 10,000 gun related homicides a year. Ian has a hard time understanding that rational. I can see his point.

Just to be clear, I own guns. I enjoy shooting and it is a hobby. I think mandatory training should be required. I think mental health should be verified. I think private sales of firearms should have FFL involvement to perform a background check.

In Seattle, a man walking in a crosswalk, not bothering anyone, and was shot four times by a policeman.
The man that was killed and is family had been a fixture in Seattle for generations. It was commonly know that he was a Native American, and made his way though life by carving small totem poles, like his father before him, and his grandfather before him. Later it was determined that he had a small pocket knife in the closed position.
It was later determined that there was no cause for the shooting.
If the policeman was so afraid, he could have stayed in his car, instead of getting out of the car and shooting the man crossing in a crosswalk.
I like guns, but I'm not a big fan of, I need it to protect myself. For many men, we are better off cooling down and letting things be.
I don't want to walk into my house at night and see one of my kids pointing a gun at me wondering whether I'm friend or foe.
Lucky for me, I can still run fast.

"* Kennesaw, GA. In 1982, this suburb of Atlanta passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in the house. The residential burglary rate subsequently dropped 89% in Kennesaw, compared to the modest 10.4% drop in Georgia as a whole.16 "

I like this one. Apparently it's ok to force people to buy guns. But healthcare? No way... lol

"* Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.2 "

The article states that 2.5 million gun related defense events happen annually. These numbers where gathered using a phone survey. So if i understand correctly the survey says guns are good because they prevent more people from being killed by guns? What is truly difficult to figure is the actual number of lives saved by these events.

I enjoy discussing topics such as this. I enjoy reading other opinions. The only way for a society to improve is to think and debate topics such as this. I know my opinions are not always popular and are sometimes incorrect. I was surprised to see the high numbers listed in this survey. And after all this I should also say, I have had a cc permit for almost 15 years and have never had to brandish or draw my firearm for any reason. I know... as the great doc holiday would say 'my hypocrisy knows no bounds'

On the other hand if you had emptied both barrels with #9 bird shot into a tree loaded with starlings... (That pesky invasive species that came here from England) He would have given you a pat on the back and a job well done...

We had an Italian neighbor that lived for the pillowcases full of starlings that we brought him. You may know the Italians have pretty much eliminated all birds in Italy by netting them, Apparently they are a big delicacy.

The farmers let us hunt their land if we shot all the pigeons possible. We ate those, fantastic.

Pumps and automatic shotguns with re-loaded #7 and # 6 did the trick. The ol man had a 12 gauge Browning that turned itself into a part time full automatic! We kept pretty far from him when he opened up fire.

Imagine that in the 60's and even 70's, 3 or 4 16 year old kids could walk down the railroad tracks through the center of a town of 60,000 with shotguns and rifles over their shoulders, on their way to the countryside to hunt. Never turned a single head.

Terry, it happens. There are good people and then, there are bad people. Good and bad in all professions. Because of this, I will excuse the cop who came to my house the night my husband had succumbed to a heart attack. He was plainly, an idiot.

To think, though, taking away the rights to own a gun, thinking, this is going to reduce the harm from them, is very naive. No matter how much people do not like to hear this, a gun just may save your life, or save you from bodily harm.

We do not live in a perfect world, and cannot fight bears off, and bad people off with sticks and stones.

In Seattle, a man walking in a crosswalk, not bothering anyone, and was shot four times by a policeman.
The man that was killed and is family had been a fixture in Seattle for generations. It was commonly know that he was a Native American, and made his way though life by carving small totem poles, like his father before him, and his grandfather before him. Later it was determined that he had a small pocket knife in the closed position.
It was later determined that there was no cause for the shooting.
If the policeman was so afraid, he could have stayed in his car, instead of getting out of the car and shooting the man crossing in a crosswalk.
I like guns, but I'm not a big fan of, I need it to protect myself. For many men, we are better off cooling down and letting things be.
I don't want to walk into my house at night and see one of my kids pointing a gun at me wondering whether I'm friend or foe.
Lucky for me, I can still run fast.