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how can you rated TH behind LCW? If LCW achieved half as TH's, Malaysia as a country will stop functioning as every single day will be a national holiday.

Hi Alan, I understand my rating is somewhat controversial,take it that it's purely my personal opinion. As a friendly exchange of views, an explanation for it is in order as follows:

1) Taufik was fortunate to peak at the head end of Lin Dan's rise, meaning if his rise were to coincide with LD as in Lee CW's case, I wonder how many major titles Taufik would get to win;

2) Taufik's era more or less overlaps Lin Dan's and Lee CW's, so the three often play against each other, making a reasonably objective comparison of their relative skills quite possible;

3) for the last 4 years since the Beijing 2008 Olympics, during which time Taufik was and is still actively playing, only Lee CW comes close to matching Lin Dan in performance with virtually both of them contesting all the major championships - in fact,the two are in a class of their own until very recently.

Don't get me wrong I am a LD fan, however I've always admired Taufik. Whenever there is a tournament I always wish that LD and TH are in different sides of the draw because I wish them to compete in the final together.

Taufik is no doubt my second favourite player after Lin Dan. I don't get all the critics about Taufik. He's achieved so much, and he doesn't have anything to prove anymore. Let him enjoy his game and play how he wants. He has a family and kids that's more important than badminton now, let's just enjoy the time he has left on the international courts okay?

Huh, he cc you. As in MD, KKK is TBH s partner? Maybe you can find a better word.

Oh my gosh,just because he cc that post to me makes me guilty by association???!!!

Why don't you cc all your posts to me to claim my partnership?

I remember telling you before that I'd appreciate you don't talk to me. You claim to be a high class,high standard personality, at least have the decency and self-respect to grant my personal request and stop "harassing" me. Why are you so fond of me that you must deign to elevate me to your high status? Am I supposed to feel honoured? Is this how a noble person should conduct himself?

From now on,in fact from then on,you are in my "Ignore List" - have I made myself clear? Thanks,but no thanks.

I cc him because you are practically accusing him of doing something which he didnt do and you have no evidence to back it up. I am still waiting for Mods to close this thread.

In post 22, I was just stating my observations based on the historical research I have done and can recall from 2005 onwards. In post 24, you reacted by accusing me of attacking and defaming some godly player and cc someone. I am giving my conclusions based on facts. You can also come out with your own conclusions which may be opposite to mine based on the SAME facts. One fine day, when I ace my IT skills, I will lift out the relevant facts for you to see. From those facts and observations ( not limited to mine), BCers could actually predict CHN player outcome with uncanny accuracy. BC actually becomes quite investigative because the minds thankfully don t agree.( You could go read some CHN professionals threads which are mind killers because the posts echo one another. )And then you guys accuse me of defaming and attacking you.....please use a world class dictionary like the World Book Dictionary (2 volumes) if you want to be clear about my English.

C'mon,anybody can claim any player to be The Greatest of All but you will have to try and convince others by backing up your assertion with facts,proofs where available, a cogent argument and well-reasoned,persuasive viewpoints - all without personal attacks. Then it's up to the other party to agree or disagree by offering his reasons. But do bear in mind that what one writes and how one presents one's case will reflect on oneself.

In the end,even with the best of intentions and after observing ethical standards and etiquette, we still disagree with each other, so what? Surely there is no need to antagonize each other like that. What do we gain or lose other than our egos and (false) pride?

Robert Hume has said when emotions come in,reason is thrown out the door. Let's face it,how many of us will actually say 'after thinking over what you've said, I realize I'
m wrong ,you're right, I hereby discard my wrong views and embrace yours,thank you'? The very few who do, and one can be found in this forum,win my utmost respect and admiration. For most people,the most that they do is to say 'let's agree to disagree' to save face,right? How many of us are selfless truthseekers?

ok, regarding the all england comment, I believe Taufik is reserved the right to his opinion. If you look at it, All England is not like last time when there wasn't World Championships or Olympics to prove who is the best in the world. So back then, All England prestige was way up there like WC, OG because it was the only few tournament that had all the best players. So of course the reputation of the All England has declined from last time.
...

..so basically you're saying the AE pretty much has lost its luster after the WC and the Olympics started?
So, to all the LCW, based on that thinking, him winning the 2010 & 2011 AE is nothing major..In other words, LCW hasn't won any major tourney ever..?

Originally Posted by Justin L

..
In other words,the AE isn't just any ordinary SS; however,it will become so if one day more and more top payers are giving it a miss,hopefully it won't come to that.

i shudder to think that one day AE will be totally relegated to just another tourney!

Originally Posted by repentedboy

...
My take is he is deliberately saying this just because he never won it and he will never do after 12 years.
...

Originally Posted by OhSearsTower

...
but taufik speaks as a sportsman and from that perspective he is right...its not harder to win all england than a lot of other tournaments with far less prestige

Originally Posted by repentedboy

...
If it's not so hard, why he cant win it and another thing, if it's not so important and he is not bothered, why he should bother attending the tournament to lose? That's not a very reasonable thing to do.

To me, he is just giving excuses and nope it has nothing to do with him winning the OG and WC.

....

Originally Posted by OhSearsTower

...
taufik only played this tournament (i wont count exactly) lets say 7-10 times in his prime in his life
in this timespan there were some other supergood players
...

If Taufik played in only 7-10 AE, then LCW, i believe, played even less in less AE tourneys (someone please do a double check on this). And YET, LCW was able to win & grab back to back AE titles (one of which by beating LD).

Originally Posted by repentedboy

...
Among the four, who has contributed the most in the Super Series and Premier era ? It's downright LCW at the time when efforts and money are spent to popularise badminton. It was him who has been playing the most active role and winning the titles without discriminating any tournament status.
..

if comparing the number of tourneys & titles won, yes, LCW should be ahead of Taufik..Taufik only gets the benefit of the doubt because of his WC & OG titles (and maybe the AG MS title to boot). If one strips away those major titles from Taufik, his record of winning tourneys will be almost similar to...Chen Jin..

..so basically you're saying the AE pretty much has lost its luster after the WC and the Olympics started?
So, to all the LCW, based on that thinking, him winning the 2010 & 2011 AE is nothing major..In other words, LCW hasn't won any major tourney ever..?

i shudder to think that one day AE will be totally relegated to just another tourney!

....

If Taufik played in only 7-10 AE, LCW i believe played even less AE (someone please do a double check on this). And YET, LCW was able to win & grab back to back AE titles (one of which by beating LD).

if comparing the number of tourneys & titles won, yes, LCW should be ahead of Taufik..Taufik only gets the benefit of the doubt because of his WC & OG titles (and maybe the AG MS title to boot). If one strips away those major titles from Taufik, his record of winning tourneys will be almost similar to...Chen Jin..

* ..knew this topic is gonna be mucho caliente..

To an extent in Super Series term, yes that is true but not as low as Chen Jin. At least he wins more titles than Chen Jin.

..so basically you're saying the AE pretty much has lost its luster after the WC and the Olympics started?
So, to all the LCW, based on that thinking, him winning the 2010 & 2011 AE is nothing major..In other words, LCW hasn't won any major tourney ever..?

That wasn't exactly what he said. There were more to it but you just pick and choose the part that echoes your argument. Btw, its about Taufik's achievements and whatnots so don't conveniently drags LCW into the picture. Your comparison doesn't make much sense afterall.

If Taufik played in only 7-10 AE, then LCW, i believe, played even less in less AE tourneys (someone please do a double check on this). And YET, LCW was able to win & grab back to back AE titles (one of which by beating LD).

Since when you are so full of praise for LCW?

if comparing the number of tourneys & titles won, yes, LCW should be ahead of Taufik..Taufik only gets the benefit of the doubt because of his WC & OG titles (and maybe the AG MS title to boot). If one strips away those major titles from Taufik, his record of winning tourneys will be almost similar to...Chen Jin..

Only IF...... if one strips away all major titles from any of the players so what is there left to debate about? Its not only applicable to TH. What happen to LD IF i were to strip away all his majors?

Comparing the AE prize reward being less than other SS with more prize money, the WC and OG (and maybe AG) offer a big fat zero prize money, only medals, to the winners in comparison to the AE...yet they are still considered "better" than the AE?..

That's right folks, looking at the bigger picture of this post/topic, it all relates to LCW (as well as other AE winners) as well whether one likes it or not..

taufik is free to say what he want, but i maybe won't agree with him. if only AE title is not that important, why did LD so happy when he won it for the 1st time in 2004 (please CMIIW)? so does LCW , she was so happy, so expressive when he won it 1st time in 2010? you can see what happen when LCW win a SSP tournament, he is almost flat, not too much expression. but when come to win AE, i think we can see how happy he was. and it's not only LCW. it's also applied to many others players.
AE maybe not important to taufik, just another SSP title, and some badminton fans might think like that also. but for most of the players, the AE still has it's own prestige, even with WC around every year.
my question would be: if, only IF, taufik did manage to won 1 AE title, would he still saying the same statement?
just IMO, peace.

Hi Alan, I understand my rating is somewhat controversial,take it that it's purely my personal opinion. As a friendly exchange of views, an explanation for it is in order as follows:

1) Taufik was fortunate to peak at the head end of Lin Dan's rise, meaning if his rise were to coincide with LD as in Lee CW's case, I wonder how many major titles Taufik would get to win;

2) Taufik's era more or less overlaps Lin Dan's and Lee CW's, so the three often play against each other, making a reasonably objective comparison of their relative skills quite possible;

3) for the last 4 years since the Beijing 2008 Olympics, during which time Taufik was and is still actively playing, only Lee CW comes close to matching Lin Dan in performance with virtually both of them contesting all the major championships - in fact,the two are in a class of their own until very recently.

We can agree to disagree, perfectly fine by me,thank you.

i've no problem for you or anyone else to rate player A above player B for whatever reasons. you have your opinion and reasoning and i respect that.

for me, it's all about winning and record. I dont have the privilege to watch any of Hartono's matches but I will consider he is one of the best. because of his 8 AE titles, they are history and in the record book.

we have to look at players' achievement, not what if, or what would have happened etc.

TH, like it or not, was Olympics Champion, world champion, asian games champion, and LCW 2 AE titles, that's all really.

CJ did not celebrate when he won AE. His expression was like, this is just another title or maybe, the money is not enough. I will go for Korea Open , anytime. Or INA Open when it offers more $$$ than Korea Open. The previous prestige of AE cannot last if the prize money does not keep up with inflation. The glamour, the tradition is great but show me the money!

Oh common now! Just put it behind now. Let us all collectively accept that neither TH nor LD nor LCW is the 'supreme greatest'. Everyone is awesome in their own right and get their due respect from each other on and off the court.

In fact the current best player in the world is definitely P Kashyap (my countryman of course!) . You can ask anyone in India (anyone who's ever heard of him of course!) and we'll all attest to that!