Let's use this thread to work out what the stats for the city of pitax are, if the PCs add it to their kingdom. I would have a few different options, like if they beseiged the city, or just waltzed in with their army. For example, if it is attacked directly it would probably need a new set of city walls to be built, as the existing ones would be trashed, for the purpose of city walls.

If it was beseiged, anything like a granary would be nearly out of food and would need replacing, and then we get to the various buildings inside the city:

I think that Irovetti's palace should count as a castle. just based on how it is built.

kvantum suggested this:

Quote:

Cathedral, Theater, Academy, etc. - but I don't know whether to make the Moondock a full Waterfront or just three or four piers

Let's use this thread to work out what the stats for the city of pitax are, if the PCs add it to their kingdom. I would have a few different options, like if they beseiged the city, or just waltzed in with their army. For example, if it is attacked directly it would probably need a new set of city walls to be built, as the existing ones would be trashed, for the purpose of city walls.

If it was beseiged, anything like a granary would be nearly out of food and would need replacing, and then we get to the various buildings inside the city:

I think that Irovetti's palace should count as a castle. just based on how it is built.

kvantum suggested this:

Quote:

Cathedral, Theater, Academy, etc. - but I don't know whether to make the Moondock a full Waterfront or just three or four piers

I would put the moondock as a full waterfront.

See, I don't think Irovetti's palace is a true castle. No curtain walls or towers. I'd either translate it as a Noble Villa or else a Town Hall like the central fortifications of Tatzlford.

I've developed a partial list for the town, but it needs expansion and adjustment. (The numbers afterward are the population added by each building.)

A few other questions we have to answer:
- Will the 4 major families of Pitax accept yet another ruler?
- Will the people of Pitax accept yet another ruler?
- What are the statistics for the fabled orchards and vineyards around Sarain in the south, and Sarain itself?
- Will Mivon try to seize Sarain and the surrounding lands, now that Pitax is weak?

ee, I don't think Irovetti's palace is a true castle. No curtain walls or towers. I'd either translate it as a Noble Villa or else a Town Hall like the central fortifications of Tatzlford.

Yes, a true castle has those things. However, I would dub that "the Fighter's Castle." I would call Irovetti's Palace "the Wizard's Castle": it has lead-lined walls, a thousand doors, and lots of other magical chicanery that I can't remember right now b/c I don't have the book handy.

I'd say it should definately count as a castle: just a very different type of castle.

And I gotta say: three wards = three districts, just seems like too much providence to ignore. Pitax is big. (And we always knew the population scores would never add up right.)

Zen79 wrote:

- Will the 4 major families of Pitax accept yet another ruler?
- Will the people of Pitax accept yet another ruler?

I think this is an important consideration. The end of #35 presents us with the option that both routes are possible. I see four broad routes:

- Have the PCs become soveriegn rulers over Pitax, establishing a throne there
- Have Irovetti be the Lord of Pitax, who is a vassal to the PCs, paying them taxes/aid
- Revert the rulership of Pitax back to the 4 noble families, but take them on as vassals (paying taxes/aid)
- Revert the rulership of Pitax back to the 4 noble families, and allow it to be a fully independant ally

Option 4 doesn't require much work. You do it, you're done.

I think Options 2 & 3 can be handled basically like normal annexation rules, with the caveat that you only get HALF of the bonuses to various stats that Pitax would normally provide. This isn't very detailed, but is fairly elegant IMO.
(Maybe to make it little jazzier: if you choose Irovetti your bonus to Stability is not halved, and if you choose the nobles your bonus to Economics is not halved?)

Option 1 would probably require some Liberation Rules, a la Fort Drelev. ie get up to 20 through minor quests and/or BP expenditures. And monthly unrest until then.

Each house requires 5 Liberation Points to accept you as ruler of Pitax. (4 houses * 5 point each = 20 liberation points total)

Cattanei:
- gain 3 LP if you buy out the Serpent's Breath and return it to Salvarri (costs 12k)
- gain 1 LP for every 1 BP spent improving the city of Pitax in a general fashion (ie does not specifically help any noble house)
- succeed a DC 35 Diplomacy check to gain 1 LP (once only)

Liacena:
- gain 3 LP if you killed Irovetti or otherwise dealt harshly with him and give the Iron Fox back to Gasperre
- gain 2 LP if you give Iron Fox back to Gasperre, but Irovetti still lives or is free
- gain 2 LP if you find/ressurect the lost brothers
- succeed a DC 40 Diplomacy check to gain 1 LP (once only)
- you can potentially loose LP depending on your actions regarding Mivon, if you choose to include that plotline

Strocalle:
- gain 1 LP if you showed mercy to Irovetti
- if you buy out another family's Trade House and donate it to Strocalle, it is worth 2 LP to Strocalle (and loose all existing LP with the other house)
- you can buy additional LP at the cost of 10k gold each
- succeed a DC 40 Bluff check (promising to do one of the above) to gain 1 LP (if you later do the thing promised, you only gain the remainder)

Once you get 20 LP, the city stops generating unrest. However, if you get to 20 with some houses at higher or lower values, their standing in the city is permanently changed to reflect this. It is possible to get to 20 with one or more houses at 0 LP, this effectively dissolves them.

Each house requires 5 Liberation Points to accept you as ruler of Pitax. (4 houses * 5 point each = 20 liberation points total)

Cattanei:
- gain 3 LP if you buy out the Serpent's Breath and return it to Salvarri (costs 12k)
- gain 1 LP for every 1 BP spent improving the city of Pitax in a general fashion (ie does not specifically help any noble house)
- succeed a DC 35 Diplomacy check to gain 1 LP (once only)

Liacena:
- gain 3 LP if you killed Irovetti or otherwise dealt harshly with him and give the Iron Fox back to Gasperre
- gain 2 LP if you give Iron Fox back to Gasperre, but Irovetti still lives or is free
- gain 2 LP if you find/ressurect the lost brothers
- succeed a DC 40 Diplomacy check to gain 1 LP (once only)
- you can potentially loose LP depending on your actions regarding Mivon, if you choose to include that plotline

Strocalle:
- gain 1 LP if you showed mercy to Irovetti
- if you buy out another family's Trade House and donate it to Strocalle, it is worth 2 LP to Strocalle (and loose all existing LP with the other house)
- you can buy additional LP at the cost of 10k gold each
- succeed a DC 40 Bluff check (promising to do one of the above) to gain 1 LP (if you later do the thing promised, you only gain the remainder)

Once you get 20 LP, the city stops generating unrest. However, if you get to 20 with some houses at higher or lower values, their standing in the city is permanently changed to reflect this. It is possible to get to 20 with one or more houses at 0 LP, this effectively dissolves them.

I see my peeps destroying Strocalle. Don't forget the thieves guild. They need to be controlled. Maybe come up with some adventures with Strocalle and thieves guild (fighting em).

maybe the thieves guild needs to be "liberated" as well, possibly the PCs working to gain the loyalty and cooperation of the thieves guild. This one would probably not be dissolved like the houses might, but would be separate. Maybe if it is not liberated, it generates 2 unrest/ month or something like that, just to force the PCs to force it into submission.

Let's use this thread to work out what the stats for the city of pitax are, if the PCs add it to their kingdom. I would have a few different options, like if they beseiged the city, or just waltzed in with their army. For example, if it is attacked directly it would probably need a new set of city walls to be built, as the existing ones would be trashed, for the purpose of city walls.

If it was beseiged, anything like a granary would be nearly out of food and would need replacing, and then we get to the various buildings inside the city:

I think that Irovetti's palace should count as a castle. just based on how it is built.

kvantum suggested this:

Quote:

Cathedral, Theater, Academy, etc. - but I don't know whether to make the Moondock a full Waterfront or just three or four piers

I would put the moondock as a full waterfront.

See, I don't think Irovetti's palace is a true castle. No curtain walls or towers. I'd either translate it as a Noble Villa or else a Town Hall like the central fortifications of Tatzlford.

I've developed a partial list for the town, but it needs expansion and adjustment. (The numbers afterward are the population added by each building.)

I would definitely make the palace a castle and I'd probably put in a black market also but it made it too big --- too many districts. It could be like Fort Drelev much bigger than the population. It would make sense for the population to leave in droves. It's not like Irovetti took care of his subjects. He was pretty unstable and he bankrupted the Kingdom!

Let's use this thread to work out what the stats for the city of pitax are, if the PCs add it to their kingdom. I would have a few different options, like if they beseiged the city, or just waltzed in with their army. For example, if it is attacked directly it would probably need a new set of city walls to be built, as the existing ones would be trashed, for the purpose of city walls.

If it was beseiged, anything like a granary would be nearly out of food and would need replacing, and then we get to the various buildings inside the city:

I think that Irovetti's palace should count as a castle. just based on how it is built.

kvantum suggested this:

Quote:

Cathedral, Theater, Academy, etc. - but I don't know whether to make the Moondock a full Waterfront or just three or four piers

I would put the moondock as a full waterfront.

See, I don't think Irovetti's palace is a true castle. No curtain walls or towers. I'd either translate it as a Noble Villa or else a Town Hall like the central fortifications of Tatzlford.

I've developed a partial list for the town, but it needs expansion and adjustment. (The numbers afterward are the population added by each building.)

I've been expanding the list. I'm probably going to translate the Trade Houses as Guild Halls and go ahead and divide up the city into 3 districts... it's just how to fill out the Shattered Ward that I'm debating right now. (I want it to be completely filled, but there can be plenty of unfilled squares in Troutmouth and the New Ruins.)

I've been expanding the list. I'm probably going to translate the Trade Houses as Guild Halls and go ahead and divide up the city into 3 districts... it's just how to fill out the Shattered Ward that I'm debating right now. (I want it to be completely filled, but there can be plenty of unfilled squares in Troutmouth and the New Ruins.)

I can't believe no body else has shared their ideas.We have some very imaginative and talented GMs on these boards!

Once you get 20 LP, the city stops generating unrest. However, if you get to 20 with some houses at higher or lower values, their standing in the city is permanently changed to reflect this. It is possible to get to 20 with one or more houses at 0 LP, this effectively dissolves them.

How about a monetary amount (or BP worth) to give them for establishing additional ships/barges, that will probably be worth 1 LP. I guess that's a bit similar to the first one you mentioned.

It comes out that it would have a poplutaio around 15,756 which I downgraded to 8,756 due to exodus of people.

Tell me what ya think.

I like it. Did you do anything with the remnants of the village that he sacrificed to the wyverns? How did you come up with 20 hexes? Is it just an arbitrary number? I'm having a hard time coming up with kingdom numbers for Mivon also. My group envisions uniting all of the river kingdoms or just conquering it. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Any other groups going a conquering? Brevoy war?

It comes out that it would have a poplutaio around 15,756 which I downgraded to 8,756 due to exodus of people.

Tell me what ya think.

I like it. Did you do anything with the remnants of the village that he sacrificed to the wyverns? How did you come up with 20 hexes? Is it just an arbitrary number? I'm having a hard time coming up with kingdom numbers for Mivon also. My group envisions uniting all of the river kingdoms or just conquering it. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Any other groups going a conquering? Brevoy war?

I got the 20 hexes from the War of the River kings thread. James said that Pitax would have the bottom two rows without Forest in them. That came to 12 hexes. It didn't make sense that they wouldn't have The 8 hexes above them because it includes Rushlight and Littletown( Which even though the wyverns have it, he controls them. I made Pitax using the Write up on it and then adapted the Populace down due to unrest. I did not give Pitax a black market because it alludes that Irovetti controlled everything. I only stated out the 4 major houses. I gave them Guildhalls.

Someone here said something about Liberation points for the Trade houses, I used that. It worked well! Pitax is full of Resentful people both sympathizers to Irovetti and people who wanted his fall. I had the Strocale family continue to spy on the kingdom, they were caught though because my PC's have a spy network and monitored them closely. They are about to arrest the Family right up the chain of command. They have been building a case against them for 3 months. Including some spread misinformation.

I got the 20 hexes from the War of the River kings thread. James said that Pitax would have the bottom two rows without Forest in them. That came to 12 hexes. It didn't make sense that they wouldn't have The 8 hexes above them because it includes Rushlight and Littletown( Which even though the wyverns have it, he controls them. I made Pitax using the Write up on it and then adapted the Populace down due to unrest. I did not give Pitax a black market because it alludes that Irovetti controlled everything. I only stated out the 4 major houses. I gave them Guildhalls.

Someone here said something about Liberation points for the Trade houses, I used that. It worked well! Pitax is full of Resentful people both sympathizers to Irovetti and people who wanted his fall. I had the Strocale family continue to spy on the kingdom, they were caught though because my PC's have a spy network and monitored them closely. They are about to arrest the Family right up the chain of command. They have been building a case against them for 3 months. Including some spread misinformation.

Any more ? feel free to ask.

Yes please share. I enjoy and try to soak up as much ideas as I can for this campaign which I'm thoroughly enjoying running. And I may add so are my peeps playing in it.

Paizo's Guide to the River Kingdoms has hunks of useful information. As far as Pitax is concerned, note two things: (a) the map inside the front cover, and (b) that Irovetti assumed the throne of Pitax in 4702. The default assumption for many Kingmaker campaigns is that the players claim their first hex in 4710.

At a pretty breakneck expansion rate the players' kingdom could start Chapter 5 as early as 4715 (roughly), 5 years after the 1st hex is claimed.

This means Irovetti has at least 13 years to build up Pitax. The piddly northeastern tip of Pitax on the Chapter 5 map is just the tip of the entire kingdom.

What I did was start Irovetti "from scratch" in April 4702 with a maximum expansion size of 122 claimed hexes. The cities that are part of the families he stole the crown from in 4702 are outside of his purview for this purpose. I scratched off 25% of his turns to reflect his inefficiencies and "squirrel!" moments as King of Pitax.

Until my group actually starts Chapter 5 I've presently only done Pitax under Irovetti's rule through 4714. I mean for Pitax (and any underhanded schemings) to present the players' kingdom with a serious war. Drelev will break them in to some of what a war / the mass combat system is about some time around 4717 (Chapter 4). Chapter 5 will nebulously take place some time in the 4720's.

Paizo's Guide to the River Kingdoms has hunks of useful information. As far as Pitax is concerned, note two things: (a) the map inside the front cover, and (b) that Irovetti assumed the throne of Pitax in 4702. The default assumption for many Kingmaker campaigns is that the players claim their first hex in 4710.

At a pretty breakneck expansion rate the players' kingdom could start Chapter 5 as early as 4715 (roughly), 5 years after the 1st hex is claimed.

This means Irovetti has at least 13 years to build up Pitax. The piddly northeastern tip of Pitax on the Chapter 5 map is just the tip of the entire kingdom.

What I did was start Irovetti "from scratch" in April 4702 with a maximum expansion size of 122 claimed hexes. The cities that are part of the families he stole the crown from in 4702 are outside of his purview for this purpose. I scratched off 25% of his turns to reflect his inefficiencies and "squirrel!" moments as King of Pitax.

Until my group actually starts Chapter 5 I've presently only done Pitax under Irovetti's rule through 4714. I mean for Pitax (and any underhanded schemings) to present the players' kingdom with a serious war. Drelev will break them in to some of what a war / the mass combat system is about some time around 4717 (Chapter 4). Chapter 5 will nebulously take place some time in the 4720's.

Paizo's Guide to the River Kingdoms has hunks of useful information. As far as Pitax is concerned, note two things: (a) the map inside the front cover, and (b) that Irovetti assumed the throne of Pitax in 4702. The default assumption for many Kingmaker campaigns is that the players claim their first hex in 4710.

At a pretty breakneck expansion rate the players' kingdom could start Chapter 5 as early as 4715 (roughly), 5 years after the 1st hex is claimed.

This means Irovetti has at least 13 years to build up Pitax. The piddly northeastern tip of Pitax on the Chapter 5 map is just the tip of the entire kingdom.

What I did was start Irovetti "from scratch" in April 4702 with a maximum expansion size of 122 claimed hexes. The cities that are part of the families he stole the crown from in 4702 are outside of his purview for this purpose. I scratched off 25% of his turns to reflect his inefficiencies and "squirrel!" moments as King of Pitax.

Until my group actually starts Chapter 5 I've presently only done Pitax under Irovetti's rule through 4714. I mean for Pitax (and any underhanded schemings) to present the players' kingdom with a serious war. Drelev will break them in to some of what a war / the mass combat system is about some time around 4717 (Chapter 4). Chapter 5 will nebulously take place some time in the 4720's.

If they're game for further conquests after Chapter 6 ... :)

would you mind emailing me what you've got?

I need to finish it up as it's in word document format. Note that it makes use of my house rules (see the mass combay sticky) as regards armies and whatnot. What year are you looking for? I can send it out soon-ish. Real Life Monster and all that.

Paizo's Guide to the River Kingdoms has hunks of useful information. As far as Pitax is concerned, note two things: (a) the map inside the front cover, and (b) that Irovetti assumed the throne of Pitax in 4702. The default assumption for many Kingmaker campaigns is that the players claim their first hex in 4710.

At a pretty breakneck expansion rate the players' kingdom could start Chapter 5 as early as 4715 (roughly), 5 years after the 1st hex is claimed.

This means Irovetti has at least 13 years to build up Pitax. The piddly northeastern tip of Pitax on the Chapter 5 map is just the tip of the entire kingdom.

What I did was start Irovetti "from scratch" in April 4702 with a maximum expansion size of 122 claimed hexes. The cities that are part of the families he stole the crown from in 4702 are outside of his purview for this purpose. I scratched off 25% of his turns to reflect his inefficiencies and "squirrel!" moments as King of Pitax.

Until my group actually starts Chapter 5 I've presently only done Pitax under Irovetti's rule through 4714. I mean for Pitax (and any underhanded schemings) to present the players' kingdom with a serious war. Drelev will break them in to some of what a war / the mass combat system is about some time around 4717 (Chapter 4). Chapter 5 will nebulously take place some time in the 4720's.

If they're game for further conquests after Chapter 6 ... :)

would you mind emailing me what you've got?

I need to finish it up as it's in word document format. Note that it makes use of my house rules (see the mass combay sticky) as regards armies and whatnot. What year are you looking for? I can send it out soon-ish. Real Life Monster and all that.

DR-C and endier: I have e-mailed the pertinent Chapter 5 documents. I am unfamiliar with document sharing, so perhaps one of the other recipients can accomodate?

Turin, While I'm unsure about google docs or anything, I do have my own site if you'd like me to post it up there for people to DL. If you'd like me to do so (and as long as the file doesn't go against Paizo's Use policy) feel free to email me at: chriso at cthulhubay dot com

I too would be grateful for a copy of your Pitax write up Turin. My email addy is in my profile next time you have a chance to send out a round of them :)

I'll be glad to do so later today. It is set up enough to let you take your own spin with it (as the current write up is at least 7 or 8 months ahead of when any player kingdom should even theoretically be engaging Pitax in all-out war.

For my group, it is a solid 7-8 years ahead of them. When next I sit down to further it along, it will be taken all the way though the autumn harvest of the year when Chapter 4 occurs, perhaps even further.

My group is looking to field a VERY impressive army: 1 Large army of CR 4 or 5 fire elementals, a M or L army of ice golems, a militia-killing horde o' war-trained kittehs, at least 2 regiments of cavalry, at least 4 regiments of infantry with crossbows, and the Gawds know what else. And that's by the start of Chapter 4...

Drelev is in for a beat down from which Irovetti will gather considerable intelligence. And of course he won't be idle either.

I'm thinking he hires mercenaries to defend a small fortification [read: expenable city district, modeled on one or more of the player's own small cities] in the hinterlands that he siccs his own troops against to acquire "live fire training". ^_^

I too would be grateful for a copy of your Pitax write up Turin. My email addy is in my profile next time you have a chance to send out a round of them :)

I'll be glad to do so later today. It is set up enough to let you take your own spin with it (as the current write up is at least 7 or 8 months ahead of when any player kingdom should even theoretically be engaging Pitax in all-out war.

For my group, it is a solid 7-8 years ahead of them. When next I sit down to further it along, it will be taken all the way though the autumn harvest of the year when Chapter 4 occurs, perhaps even further.

My group is looking to field a VERY impressive army: 1 Large army of CR 4 or 5 fire elementals, a M or L army of ice golems, a militia-killing horde o' war-trained kittehs, at least 2 regiments of cavalry, at least 4 regiments of infantry with crossbows, and the Gawds know what else. And that's by the start of Chapter 4...

Drelev is in for a beat down from which Irovetti will gather considerable intelligence. And of course he won't be idle either.

I'm thinking he hires mercenaries to defend a small fortification [read: expenable city district, modeled on one or more of the player's own small cities] in the hinterlands that he siccs his own troops against to acquire "live fire training". ^_^

I too would be grateful for a copy of your Pitax write up Turin. My email addy is in my profile next time you have a chance to send out a round of them :)

I'll be glad to do so later today. It is set up enough to let you take your own spin with it (as the current write up is at least 7 or 8 months ahead of when any player kingdom should even theoretically be engaging Pitax in all-out war.

For my group, it is a solid 7-8 years ahead of them. When next I sit down to further it along, it will be taken all the way though the autumn harvest of the year when Chapter 4 occurs, perhaps even further.

My group is looking to field a VERY impressive army: 1 Large army of CR 4 or 5 fire elementals, a M or L army of ice golems, a militia-killing horde o' war-trained kittehs, at least 2 regiments of cavalry, at least 4 regiments of infantry with crossbows, and the Gawds know what else. And that's by the start of Chapter 4...

Drelev is in for a beat down from which Irovetti will gather considerable intelligence. And of course he won't be idle either.

I'm thinking he hires mercenaries to defend a small fortification [read: expenable city district, modeled on one or more of the player's own small cities] in the hinterlands that he siccs his own troops against to acquire "live fire training". ^_^

The above link should take you to the beginning of the group's Kingmaker run. Note that they've reached the 1 year mark of progressing through Kingmaker as of our next scheduled session on 21st August. :) Good times!