More of a survey that a poll I suppose, I've had several conversations over the last two or three weeks with people about the value of kayak guides and charter operators.

The question posed is would you pay for a kayak guide (include in here charter operators) to put put you on the fish?

I'll use a recent personal experience here, for the recent Bridge to Cape comp I chose to fish the Whananaki area for no other reason than it looked fishy, doesn't get a lot of local pressure (it's off the beaten track) and some good fish have been caught there in the past, now I haven't fished there before (I have fished around the area before but not at the chosen spot), so I hit up a couple of people I know who have fished in and around there (fellow kayak anglers) and got some pointers as to launch spots and potential areas to target but no specific points or GPS coordinates etc all of which helped and hey it was all free advice. So I took all that on board headed out for a fish and apart from a lot a pannies you could say I got skunked, no competition winning fish were caught.

So this is where the question arises... Would I have paid for a guide to take me out and put me right on the spot(s) that normally fire with good/large fish?

In the US and in Australia to a certain extent there are many kayak fishing guides available many for whom it is their source of income, it's their job to take clients out and put them on the fish, and at the same time show them the correct techniques for the location and/or species they are targeting, in NZ we only have one that I can think of off the top of my head - Rob Fort. Rob does a great job guiding in and around Coro using his experience to put people on the fish but what about the rest of the country?

Like I said I've had conversations with several people recently and here are some of the comments I've heard:

"I wouldn't pay when I could just ask a local where the fish are"

"I don't see the point when we have all these people on KFNZ to ask or hook up with"

"Yes I'd pay to be put on the fish"

"I can see the point in paying but wouldn't be very impressed if the guide fished as well"

Personally I think there is great value in being able to rock up to an unknown (to me) spot and meet up with a local guide to show me or take me to the right spot(s), what are your opinions?

THis is an interesting one for me, My thoughts were that I would rather have someone "Teach" me how to fish in general rather than fish one particular area so to speak.
I.E, if someone could give me a great easy to understand way of reading things like bite time / current / tide / sun angle ect so that I could go to any spot, look at it from the beach and say, right so the wind is doing this, and the tide is doing this ect so im going to fish the left of that rock,, then I can see there will be a gut over there so ill try that ect.
That way I would be able to take that knowledge to any spot and assess it myself.

If I was going to pay a guide, I would prefer that, to say getting taken out off martins bay and shown "cast right here" case closed.
Then you cant take that knowledge anywhere else other than martins bay, and what happens when every man and his dog has had the "Cast right here at martins bay" info, and the fish move....

That being said, im not exactly sure why, but I think a charter is something different, being put on the fish like we did at White was awsome, and that is an area that we would have never found the fish from the yaks without the skippers help, but I think that is a little different.

Nahh -takes all the fun out of it -This is good ol Kiwi have a go mate stuff!
Much more satisfaction in doing the groundwork yourself then succeeding.
This coaching is going to lead to the same degradation of the sport and opposition as in fresh water trout fishing ,big game fishing etc. where money talks and us paupers get excluded.
Surely Kayak fishing is for a certain hardy -Give it a go - self reliant type of sportsman.
Surprised you can't see downfalls Mental coming from Class stratified society in the Blighty as working class banished from rivers ,hunting estates etc completely.
The local Iwi are gonna cut up and demand slice of the action as evidenced at Papa Aroha already-this unfortunately is a direct kick back at exploitation by commercial interests and in some ways I don't blame them
Besides it's a sporting challenge I'm after not being spoon fed like a fat millionaire that hasnt got their fishing priorities sorted.
Dropping you on a spot is like shooting fish in a barrel - no merit in it what so ever

Man, for me it really depends what and where... For big "once in a lifetime" or even "once in a year" type trip, eg White, or with Rob to Barrier etc, I'm happy to pay. Then again, as Chris said, it's more of a mothership/charter trip (with a guide). Would I pay someone to take me around, say, far north? Probably not. That just cuts into my fishing budget , and isn't that why we have HLDs and stuff?

I think Rob's worked out that even in this area there are a lot of different customer requirements, and he does cover a number of different bases.

Some folk need to be taught how to sit in a kayak.

Some just want to be put on to fish.

Many want ideas and training in fishing technique, as well as being dropped on to fish to try the techniques out on.

(Right now, I'm wrestling with the idea of becoming a specialist softbait fishing guide, in the same way as my friend and neighbour Craig Worthington is a SWF guide, so this poll's specially interesting for me. I've had a lot - a real lot - of approaches from people who want tuition/coaching.)

Yea I think there is quite a differance between a charter and a guide.
Well for me there is.
I would and do pay to go on charters, white / barrier ect, but to me thats quite different to meeting up with a guide at a beach and having him say to you, go 500m that way then put your line in the water.
If the guide was offering more than just the above, (i.e gave you some knowledge you could take elsewhere, fishing techniques / paddleing techniques ect) then Im all for it.
Guess this whole topic just depends on what your thoughts on what a guide is are...

sk8e8 wrote:Mental, can you clarify for me, if this includes charter/mothership trips? I find it hard to answer

Yea I was sort of including charter boat trips but more the ones where we pay to go fishing like the White trips, not so much the RedQuarters trips where we know up front all we are paying for is the transport and accommodation.

I'm proud to say that I fished all but 6 weekends last year, those 6 were due to 'risky' weather conditions....

The down side is that my stomping ground became a bit boring.

This year I've treated myself to saying "Confirmed " to every offer I can, Naki classic, White Island, Barrier, Bridge to cape, I've fished Auckland a couple of times and plan to take on BOP some time soon. This year has been a real treat for me but expensive and as a result I probably fish 1 in 5 weekends and my gear is getting pretty tired and starting to let me down.
During Easter I found a spot that I've heard little about and plan to spend quite some time exploiring, great shelter, great scenery, a Kingi on the first drop and a number of fish that I just couldn't slow down.

Would I use a guide? Yes but as a treat. I get a kick out of exploring and finding my own spot x's rather than depending on others. I guess you could say that I'm a bit of a fence sitter on this one.

sk8e8 wrote:Mental, can you clarify for me, if this includes charter/mothership trips? I find it hard to answer

Yea I was sort of including charter boat trips but more the ones where we pay to go fishing like the White trips, not so much the RedQuarters trips where we know up front all we are paying for is the transport and accommodation.

Then my answer is Yes, I have and I will again use THIS SORT of guide. For special trips only though, as I can catch fish fine in normal areas

kayak chris wrote:My thoughts were that I would rather have someone "Teach" me how to fish in general rather than fish one particular area so to speak.

That being said, im not exactly sure why, but I think a charter is something different, being put on the fish like we did at White was awsome, and that is an area that we would have never found the fish from the yaks without the skippers help, but I think that is a little different.

Ditto...Would use a guide to improve my technique or a charter/tour for a unique area/species that I couldn't get to otherwise

I think useing a guide for a newbe who is keen to try kayak fishing but doesnt know much about tieing knots , what to look for as far as fish holding areas , how to use the gear on the yak properly , how to cast , the rod action you need for softbaiting and wants to give it a go and be safe on the water with a professional guide looking after him ect ect ect is an excellent thing to do .
Also theres no point spending lots of coin to get set up and then finding this yak fishing really aint for you .
Jesus paddlesnap its got nothing to do with classes of people and fat millionaires getting put on fish .
Most yak fisherman are just average blokes who love it . If that means going on one of Rob Forts guided tours to get a handle on our great sport in a safe manner then whats the harm .
I considered doing one of Robs tours years ago to gets some good advice and experience , i didnt do it in the end due to not having alot of spare coin at the time .
Rob caters for a certain niche i guess , inexperienced newbes , tourists ect .

paddlesnap wrote:i
Dropping you on a spot is like shooting fish in a barrel - no merit in it what so ever

Mate, I take full 'merit' in the fish I caught at white this year, regardless of the fact I was dropped on a spot, as I'm sure others do for the fish they have caught. Asking a local, asking a KFNZ guy or being shown by a guide is all assistance of sorts, and I'm happy to take tips wherever they arrive.

Fishing alone and being proud about is all fine and good, but don't try to take the fun away from people who want more from the sport than just a big paddle and a few snapper from their local spot. I know there are guys here that got into the sport though a guided trip and I'm glad they did.

Kingfish killer wrote:Most yak fisherman are just average blokes who love it . If that means going on one of Rob Forts guided tours to get a handle on our great sport in a safe manner then whats the harm .

I totally agree with this, and think what Robs doing is kind of a little bit different to what I would consider as a charter or normal fishing guide.
Rob Spends time with his clients off the water first explaining the theory, then takes you out and shows you techniques like how to kayak and paddle correctly, how to softbait, and gives general knowledge.
Its not just putting ya on the fish like a charter normally would (or would try ).
And ike KK said, ideal for newbies and tourists ect to get a taster in a safe controled environment.

I voted for yes I would pay. What clinches it for me was the mothership issue. I went with Rob and Pete to Cuvier and GMI on the MV Taiho. Rob fished with us and it was great.

If its just about finding the good spots then I wouldn't be inclined to get a guide. Theres heaps of good info on the forum, people to ask etc.

I can see Paddlesnap's point about the fortunate classes; thats what starting to happen with access to rivers running through private land for trout fishing. Private land owners are selling rights to guides and only the rich can get access via the guides.