It will be interesting to see what the relationship between the new MND and the CDS will be like. I know that there was some tension between Brigadier-General (Ret'd) O'Connor and General (Ret'd) Hillier.

- When Gen Vance commanded the Canadian task force in Afg in 2009, LCol Sajjan was on his staff.

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"Disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda." - Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axeworthy at a Gun Control conference in Oslo, Norway in 1998.

"I didn’t feel that it was an act of violence; you know, I felt that it was an act of liberation, that’s how I felt you know." - Ann Hansen, Canadian 'Urban Guerrilla'(one of the "Squamish Five")

You can read then-BGen Fraser's 2006 letter of appreciation to the Vancouver Police Department for then-Major Sajjan's work in Afghanistan.

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question for those who know: will he dig his heels in over something he believes in and as an mp does he still retain his reserve officer status or does he have to give that up?

There is nothing in our (Westminster) parliamentary tradition that says that members, even ministers, must resign their commissions. Our (British and Canadian) parliamentary histories show several members who served as MPs while, also, serving as soldiers, sometimes serving as MPs even while 'away' on operations. In fact, the House of Commons' own rules say that (my emphasis added) "...those days on which a Member was absent due to illness, a military commitment, the adjournment of the House or because the Member was on “public or official business”, are considered days of attendance."

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It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and basenessas to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698) ----------Like what you see/read here on Army.ca? Subscribe, and help keep it "on the air!"

There is nothing in our (Westminster) parliamentary tradition that says that members, even ministers, must resign their commissions. Our (British and Canadian) parliamentary histories show several members who served as MPs while, also, serving as soldiers, sometimes serving as MPs even while 'away' on operations. In fact, the House of Commons' own rules say that (my emphasis added) "...those days on which a Member was absent due to illness, a military commitment, the adjournment of the House or because the Member was on “public or official business”, are considered days of attendance."

As someone with a strong hand in making/driving military policy, though, there must be some rules governing some of his military appointments/jobs, no?

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“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

There is a long tradition of reservists serving as Members of Parliament or of a provincial Assembly. As a general rule, they request and are granted transfer to the supplementary list for the duration. I am unaware of any MP/MPA that continued active reserve service while siting, however.

In his case, however, there is the added fact that he is now the Minister of Defence. So there are potential implications with regards to Conflict of Interests rules. How would he act if, for instance, a plan to reorganize the militia was presented to him and affected, or not, the B.C.R.? In his case, he will be around 50 by the time the next election comes around, so perhaps retiring (if he hasn't done so already, as I see in one bio that his military service is listed as ending in 2014) would be a smart move.

PS: I don't think anyone suggested resigning commission. You can choose to retire, or be honourably released from the CF without having to "resign" your commission.

There is a long tradition of reservists serving as Members of Parliament or of a provincial Assembly. As a general rule, they request and are granted transfer to the supplementary list for the duration. I am unaware of any MP/MPA that continued active reserve service while siting, however.

In his case, however, there is the added fact that he is now the Minister of Defence. So there are potential implications with regards to Conflict of Interests rules. How would he act if, for instance, a plan to reorganize the militia was presented to him and affected, or not, the B.C.R.? In his case, he will be around 50 by the time the next election comes around, so perhaps retiring (if he hasn't done so already, as I see in one bio that his military service is listed as ending in 2014) would be a smart move.

PS: I don't think anyone suggested resigning commission. You can choose to retire, or be honourably released from the CF without having to "resign" your commission.

Your point about the appearance of a conflict of interest is very well taken.

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It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and basenessas to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698) ----------Like what you see/read here on Army.ca? Subscribe, and help keep it "on the air!"

This is one of those situations that solidifies the sayin..."be nice to people on your way up, as you might meet them on your way down". Hypothetically speaking, just imagine a scenario when a then boss was nasty to a member of their staff, and the staff then later becomes a top dog. Talk about the awkwardness that will ensue

This is one of those situations that solidifies the sayin..."be nice to people on your way up, as you might meet them on your way down". Hypothetically speaking, just imagine a scenario when a then boss was nasty to a member of their staff, and the staff then later becomes a top dog. Talk about the awkwardness that will ensue

We got that, we are just unclear on how that translate into an issue of spec pay.

And if you think that is bad: Melanie Joly is now at Heritage, where she oversees the CBC ... where she interned in a younger incarnation. Hope they were very nice to their intern (but CBC being a crusty civil service type of organization, I have my doubt that interns are treated as little more than the lowest form of life).

To be fair, O'Connor (top right) was an armoured officer; I guess they couldn't find a photo of him in olive drab by a Leopard.

(EDIT: fixing a mis-typed acronym)

« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 13:06:34 by dapaterson »

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.... Sajjan is still looking into the legalities behind running for office as a reservist. He offered his resignation but was asked to stay on as his skillset was valuable to the CAF.

“If we all of a sudden send soldiers in harm’s way and my skills are absolutely needed for the mission, I’d be happy to take a leave of absence from being a member of parliament and share the risk with the other members of CAF,” noted Sajjan.

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“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

In his case, however, there is the added fact that he is now the Minister of Defence. So there are potential implications with regards to Conflict of Interests rules. . . .

I fail to see how Minister Sajjan would violate "Conflict of Interest rules" should one of his future decisions materially affect his former(?) regiment. While I didn't find the definition of an "interest" strictly specified in any of the pertaining legislation, the "Conflict of Interest Code for Members of the House of Commons" clearly identifies that what they are talking about is personal economic benefit. While a decision made by the minister may benefit (or disadvantage) a specific unit or element of the CF, unless that minister (or his family) makes a financial gain it is not a conflict of interest. It may be bad optics or bad politics but it is unlikely against the law.

Now, if LCol (Ret'd) Sajjan transferred to the Supp Res rather than released from the CF, he would be subject to the Code of Service Discipline on those days that he is in his office at Fort Fumble on the Rideau (defence property). Though I do not expect Minister Sajjan's conduct to be such that, while in his office (or elsewhere in the building), there would be grounds to charge him (or to find someone foolhardy enough to lay such) with a service offence, it does make for an interesting discussion.

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Whisky for the gentlemen that like it. And for the gentlemen that don't like it - Whisky.

The conflict of interest regulations deal with both real and perceived conflicts ... the latter can be especially troublesome in politics.

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It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and basenessas to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698) ----------Like what you see/read here on Army.ca? Subscribe, and help keep it "on the air!"

So, Supp List or not....does Lt Col Singh salute the CDS or does the CDS salute the Right Honourable Mr. Singh?

Neither. First of all, I very much doubt the Minister will show up dressed in uniform

Second of all, a member of the Sup res, when just happening to be on DND property is subject to the Code of Service Discipline, but unless out on a class A, B or class C service, is not subject to any other regulations and obligations, including ceremonial ones such as salutes (in fact, unless out on such service, the member should not be in uniform at any time). A member of the Sup.Res is only a civilian that happens to be able to avail him/herself of class A, B an C reserve service opportunities or can be recalled to service by the CDS.

Interestingly, the MND's bio on the DND website refers to him as "a retired Lieutenant-Colonel in the Canadian Armed Forces and a combat veteran."

If the minister is, in fact, now in the Supp Res, would he actually be subject to the CSD while on DND property (despite the fact that he is occupying a civilian position and fulfilling a non-military role)?

As a member of the Supp Res myself, am I somehow subject to the CSD if I'm delivering a pizza to Edmonton Garrison?