Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:45 pm

Holy cow!

Because of the patchy sound, It may well be edited in places, but then again may not be. I'm certain I'm hearing accents and phrasing in Elvis' delivery that I've not heard before but need to pull this apart a bit more. And where is the late/long delivery of "train, train" that we usually hear where Elvis comes back in at the end of the instrumental break? Interesting.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:08 am

Fake, but a good one that could easily confuse some people.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:35 am

Yes, a very good one. Comparing back with the master, it doesn't seem that there is anything new on this longer version, just the same components rearranged. The new placement makes them sound different on first listen. But a very clever fake indeed.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:31 pm

dannyboy1 wrote:Yes, a very good one. Comparing back with the master, it doesn't seem that there is anything new on this longer version, just the same components rearranged. The new placement makes them sound different on first listen. But a very clever fake indeed.

But 'clever' & 'different' doesn't necessarily mean 'better' !

As the original was sheer perfection, why bother trying to improve it ?

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:43 pm

The 'clicking' bass sounds like someone in their front room tapping a couple of spoons together!! The end bit of dialogue is from "When it rains it really pours". Total waste of time.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:36 pm

This recording, though it is an edit, contains parts that can not be heard on the master as released by Sony/BMG. On the master of Sony/BMG a cut can be clearly heard at 1:44 (in the instrumental part). It's this cut, that can be heard on each release since the late 1950s. On this "release" you can't hear this cut at 1:44. Also on this "release" at and around 2:40 you hear a part that can't be found on the master of Sony/BMG. Conclusion: It is an edit, as far as the end (dialogue) is concerned, and it may be an edit out of several components, but it is for sure coming from another source than the "master" of Sony/BMG. The source used for this edit may be indeed closer to the original recording as it has been made at Sun Studio. We always have to remember that the master of Sony/BMG always has been an edit (cut at 1:44, early fade out) and we have never heard the original recording on an official release. It seems that sombebody indeed has a tape, that is original, but played around & mixed it with the dialogue at the end. The ending, indeed does not sound to be worked, even if you try to compare the acustic waves graphically. There are clearly 2 different voice deliveries, same is due to the voice delivery at and around 2:40.

It is a fake, due to the fact that we do not hear Elvis singing as he sang in the studio, but we hear here more than on Sony/BMG's "master".

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:46 pm

Tony.. wrote:The 'clicking' bass sounds like someone in their front room tapping a couple of spoons together!! The end bit of dialogue is from "When it rains it really pours". Total waste of time.

For sure no waste of time:1.) Listen to the BMG master at 1:44. You hear a cut. You can't hear this cut in the instrumental part of this version. Nobody is able to "repair" this on a 50+ years old recording.2.) Listen to the sound and voice at 2:40. You can't hear this on the BMG master. You can graphically compare this and the master. The part at and around 2:40 is not on the master.3.) Listen to the intro. The BMG master has a "cut-in"; this version not.4.) The ending is original. Also this can be graphically shown: It is NOT an edit of any part of the master.5.) Unfortunately the one who mixed this version used studio dialogue before and after the track, but this does not make the track itself a fake.6.) It is an edit, yes. Two components are repeated, but this again does not make the source used a fake!7.) We have here an edit made out of a different source than the BMG master. The BMG master is an edit, this version is also an edit. But this version contains more of Elvis' voice than the BMG master delivers.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:50 pm

Do you own either "Elvis At Sun" or "A Boy From Tupelo," Pierre?

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:57 pm

JimmyCool wrote:Do you own either "Elvis At Sun" or "A Boy From Tupelo," Pierre?

Well, I was interested in that version of Mystery Train and found it on eBay! I have it now on vinyl and analyzed it. It indeed comes from another source that the BMG master. I can send you the file.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:00 am

Pierre wrote:

JimmyCool wrote:Do you own either "Elvis At Sun" or "A Boy From Tupelo," Pierre?

Well, I was interested in that version of Mystery Train and found it on eBay! I have it now on vinyl and analyzed it. It indeed comes from another source that the BMG master. I can send you the file.

I'd sure love to have that file and be able to listen to it.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:19 am

Rocker wrote:

Pierre wrote:

JimmyCool wrote:Do you own either "Elvis At Sun" or "A Boy From Tupelo," Pierre?

Well, I was interested in that version of Mystery Train and found it on eBay! I have it now on vinyl and analyzed it. It indeed comes from another source that the BMG master. I can send you the file.

I'd sure love to have that file and be able to listen to it.

Moi aussi.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:55 am

Obviously edited from the one and only known recording... why do people waste their time trying to get away with this crap?

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:02 am

On the "master", as released by BMG, you can hear a cut at 1:44. So what we hear on this "master" is already an edit. A part has been cut out, or the master is a combination of two takes. The only two releases (as far as I know) where we can't hear this cut is on the German long play of 1987 called "The Legendary" (Joker Tonverlag AG 254) - running time 2:41 and the 1962 Brazilian RCA single release - running time 2:42 approximately. And now this one.

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Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:11 am

All that click-clacking takes away from the fullness and depth of recording; Elvis's rhythm guitar is not prominent, and it's a thin thing - not the real thing. It takes most of the intensity out of Scotty's brilliant solo. Even the voice is not there like it should be. Why do this to a recording of such merit? Bizarre.

rjm

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:29 am

rjm wrote:All that click-clacking takes away from the fullness and depth of recording; Elvis's rhythm guitar is not prominent, and it's a thin thing - not the real thing. It takes most of the intensity out of Scotty's brilliant solo. Even the voice is not there like it should be. Why do this to a recording of such merit? Bizarre.

rjm

The sound on YouTube is thin. The sound on the vinyl I own is as deep & rich as on any vinyl release before the CD came out.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:31 am

Pierre wrote:

rjm wrote:All that click-clacking takes away from the fullness and depth of recording; Elvis's rhythm guitar is not prominent, and it's a thin thing - not the real thing. It takes most of the intensity out of Scotty's brilliant solo. Even the voice is not there like it should be. Why do this to a recording of such merit? Bizarre.

rjm

The sound on YouTube is thin. The sound on the vinyl I own is as deep & rich as on any vinyl release before the CD came out.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:45 am

rjm wrote:

Pierre wrote:

rjm wrote:All that click-clacking takes away from the fullness and depth of recording; Elvis's rhythm guitar is not prominent, and it's a thin thing - not the real thing. It takes most of the intensity out of Scotty's brilliant solo. Even the voice is not there like it should be. Why do this to a recording of such merit? Bizarre.

rjm

The sound on YouTube is thin. The sound on the vinyl I own is as deep & rich as on any vinyl release before the CD came out.

Well, this sound does not come from vinyl, though they copied the "vinyl background" as an "intro"! The cut in the instrumental part can be heard here, too: At 1:48/1:49, though it was polished. It simply does not fit into the rhythm.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:49 pm

As far as I know, "Mystery Train" was recorded in one complete take, and there were no splices done on any SUN recordings, except for "I Love You Because," which was done later by RCA.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:50 pm

You can hear the cut (of the tape) at 1:44 at almost any release of the past decades. In the recent "Boy from Tupelo" this cut has been "repaired" (or we may say "polished", but it's still there.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:26 pm

There is no friggin' edit on Mystery Train at 1.44.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:50 pm

OP, are you talking about the moment Scotty's solo finishes, and he goes back into his main riff, or the part where Elvis starts singing again after the solo?

Either way, I don't hear a cut/splice of any sort.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:08 pm

Have a look at the graph posted on Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:02 am, at the red line there is the cut.

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:18 pm

I don't hear a cut in the original at 1:44. I think Scotty just switches off the high strings to the lower strings.

But what would I know? I've only listened to these songs for 35 years...

As much as I would love to hear an alternate version of "Mystery Train" or any other Sun recording, they simply no longer exist.A Boy From Tupelo yielded some nice moments on"Harbor Lights" and "When It Rains, It Really Pours", just as Ernst promised, but no newly discovered Sun reels.

Now that A Boy From Tupelo has been released as BMG's final word on Elvis' Sun career, we will continue to hear from others who want to have the last word at the expense of BMG/FTD. If someone REALLY wants to have the last word, they should release a song that we haven't heard before. Bring on "Tiger Man" or "Satisfied" or "Uncle Pen"! Better yet, find the lost session reel for "Milkcow Blues Boogie" and "You're A Heartbreaker"!

I'm sorry, Pierre,I just don't (and won't) buy this...

Re: Mystery Train (acetate/tape) full length

Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:42 pm

I am not an Elvis fan, but I have some Elvis recordings in my collection, which is mainly Rock, Blues and Jazz. Elvis is important because he was the one who broke the rules of music, he can be considered as the "primate" of today's rock music. Mystery Train is one important piece and therefore I have several issues (of probably the same source). The interesting thing is that a Brazilian release of 1962 and the Joker release (Germany 1987) runs 2:40 minutes. I can't hear any edited parts in these two releases, but I can hear a cut (rhythm break) at 1:44 on BMG's master. I think many have worked on Mystery Train in the past decades.