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I am wondering if there is a realistic chance for an adult-beginner to "get somewhere" if they study alone...(with the only help of books, Internet etc.),if, because of their circumstances, there is - unfortunately - no chance for themto study with the guidance of a teacher ?

Even if they have to start to read & learn everything from scratch ?

I am wondering, because it is so often pointed out that "one needs a teacher to get somewhere" ?

But if there is no chance to have a teacher,has it been known to be fruitful all the same in the long run?

The thing is the teacher is a guide to steer you away from your mistakes so you use your time more effectively. Therefore I consider them to be catalysts, somebody who increases the rate of your learning.

Like spotting your mistakes and bad techniques and seeing and pointing out where you are going wrong which you often cannot see yourself!

Myself I played for a number of months in an unstructured manner. I learnt some songs, could read most of the top stave (but only the top stave and only inside the ledger lines). In the year since lessons I've grown a lot faster than I could have alone.

I think it really depends on where is this "somewhere". If you want to perform in public and become a good interpreter of classical music you will need a teacher sooner or later, while if you just enjoy playing easy to intermediate stuff by yourself or for a few friends I think you can do well on your own. At least I hope so.

Honestly, I think it depends on how you approach your studies. Without a teacher, the beginner piano student needs to have discipline, focus, patience, and time commitment. Additionally anyone learning needs to be able to get good sleep and understand they will be better at the piano the next day. This is a discipline where you can get discouraged quickly and easily.

I am without a teacher and think I am doing okay. But I have had to refocus several times to make sure I am not straying off the path. Small goals each week help with that.

Some students will feel lost without a teacher; they simply need someone to direct them. So it really depends on how you learn. Everyone is different.

Realistically you can do this without a teacher, but you also need to be realistic about how you go about it.

Kawai MP11 : JBL LSR305 : Focusrite 2i4 : Pianoteq Standard

We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams. Willy Wonka

A teacher knows the repertoire and can suggest suitable material for them to teach and can spot flaws in your playing position and mechanical actions that might otherwise lead to injuries, sometimes sooner, sometimes later. Not everybody makes ergonomic mistakes. I taught myself for years and had no bad habits to unlearn when I started lessons. Couldn't read for toffees but no bad habits.

At least not related to piano!

Without a teacher you will learn more slowly. But it need not be less thoroughly. There are plenty of sites offering good sources of infomation and you're already a member of this forum, which is undoubtedly the next best thing to a teacher.

Kristina, you can certainly do this on your own. But if "circumstances" means you can't afford lessons with a teacher, consider creative options. Maybe you can arrange a barter arrangement with a teacher. I had an impoverished 20ish student propose that, and it worked just fine for a year: she did odd jobs and errands for me for about 3 hours a week in return for her weekly lesson.

Or you could just ask a teacher to give you a free 30 minute lesson once a month to guide you. I wouldn't refuse such a request if I liked the student and believed that he or she had no money. I think many piano teachers might be similarly receptive.

- Feedback on my playing. Sure I could play a piece back when I did not have a teacher but I was never sure whether it was correct and more importantly, how I could improve the playing (put more accent here, less staccato there etc.).

- Closure. When the teacher tells me that we can move on to the next piece I know that the previous piece is done. Without a teacher I would often learn several pieces at a time without real focus and without ever finishing anything.

That being said, I do think that it is possible to learn the piano without a teacher, it's just harder. There are so many great resources out there from Youtube to piano sites and this forum of course.

I recognize that there are advantages of having a teacher but many of us can not do it (like me ...).

Learning alone is an adventure because you are... alone. You have to work "away" of the piano, collecting information on the Internet, studying every detail of the piece, listening tons of pieces, or asking for help in PW. At the same time you have to be able to recover (without expert help) of those moments of frustration we all go through.

One the other hand, you are free to choose what you want to play. For me, this is the major advantage of learning without a teacher.

In short, and looking at my experience, I think it is very worthwhile.

Last edited by CarlosCC; 03/22/1310:53 AM.

SoundCloud | YoutubeSelf-taught since Dec2009"Don't play what's there, play what's not there."

In short, and looking at my experience, I think it is very worthwhile.

I completely agree. I am more invested in my studies because I am doing this on my own. I read more, listen more, research more than I would have if I was following a teacher. Now, that is not to say a teacher would not be beneficial, for sure they would. After all I still plan to get a teacher. But I have thoroughly enjoyed the process so far as I explore this new world on my own.

Kawai MP11 : JBL LSR305 : Focusrite 2i4 : Pianoteq Standard

We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams. Willy Wonka

In short, and looking at my experience, I think it is very worthwhile.

I completely agree. I am more invested in my studies because I am doing this on my own. I read more, listen more, research more than I would have if I was following a teacher. Now, that is not to say a teacher would not be beneficial, for sure they would. After all I still plan to get a teacher. But I have thoroughly enjoyed the process so far as I explore this new world on my own.

+1. Thanks for saying everything I've felt to be true in the three years I've been posting here but somehow never quite managed to say. Though they may have their advantages, teachers can also breed dependence and kill initiative and block the possibility of creative and stylistic breakthroughs.

I am taking piano college courses for the first time, one because it focuses on helping people teach themselves using the Abersold improvisation materials, the other because it allows for regular live performance opportunities. There are some women in the performance class who study with the same teacher. They have the same strengths, but they also have the same weakness as players.

They are not open to deep harmonic analysis, are afraid to change anything on the sheet, even when playing popular music, and after many years with this teacher one told me was "strict", seem entrenched in their own set of bad habits, like depending too much on muscle memory and losing patterns when have to play pieces publically they've been playing for years. And they haven't been slowed down in being able to to improvise and or play music they create themselves on the fly, they have been programmed into never being able to do it, something that, on my own, I know I am well on my way to learning to be able to do.

Sombody here on the forum once said: The drawback for the self-taught student is, that he has the worst teacher.

Well, keep this in mind and stay very self critical with what you are doing. But you can do it! You can do it! You can do it! Just do it!Try to record yourself as often as possible and carefully listen to what you have played, maybe send the recording to some friends (or the forum) and ask for feedback.

I have read many comments here that a teacher is necessary to learn properly, advance, and prevent injuries.

After self teaching for a while (through Alfred 1 which I started in a senior group class) I tried lessons with a recommended teacher (many years of experience, MTNA, degree in music performance and pedogogy).

After a few weeks I had considerable pain in my left hand due to making quick jumps to 8th and 9th stretches in the pieces she gave me learn. If I slowed down in my home practice I could make the jumps without pain.

However my teacher complained that I did not play fast enough. She would do one hand and I would have to do the other hand in order to force me to play faster. The only other thing she seemed to do was point out mistakes (of which I was well aware and due to playing faster than I am capable of playing.)

I gave up the lessons and returned to self teaching. My hand pain went away in a few weeks and I am enjoying myself again.

PS: I think the tips in "Piano Practice Methods" are excellent. Many thanks for the link.

Sombody here on the forum once said: The drawback for the self-taught student is, that he has the worst teacher.

I did say somewhere here that if you are self-taught, then in fact, you are your own teacher. Actually, my teacher told me this, and she did not mean it in a negative way, realizing that for whatever reason many people simply cannot have a teacher, and that is fine.

Could you get "somewhere"? I think yes. There are a wide range of people though, some could go real far self-taught, then there are those who will go nowhere, with probably a wider group somewhere in between. I think learning piano is like climbing a mountain. If you climb just to see the view at the top, it will be a heck of a journey. If you climb the mountain because you enjoy the climb without regrets if you never reach the top, then you will get somewhere, certainly farther than if you didn't do it at all. If you had a guide, you get there faster with less effort, but a teacher is no guarantee of reaching "your goal".

Except its like hypnosis, it is you who allows yourself to be hyponotised. The other person with the shiny watch or whatever is just a guide, even if you have a teacher, the majority of the teaching and learning is done by yourself.

Lest you can have a Chopin like life with a live in teacher.

Looking at my log of hours. I've for 67 logged hours with my teacher.

I've logged around 750 hours alone.

I also learn pieces alone and only take the bar, just the bar I have trouble with to the teacher. At the moment its large 7 finger chords which need to be rolled.

I've come to learn that what's most important (more important than the best teacher in the entire world!) is...

strong self-motivation. Without exception, this is what is, and has been, shared between all great pianists (and just great figures in general). Now obviously you need to approach things within reason, learning pieces of which you're capable (ideally capable of mastering), else there will never be success. If the motivation is there, then all that remains is to select and choose roads to go down, them preferably being in some way relevant to your particular end-goal. [begin analogy]The thing about walking such roads alone, though, is that you essentially start out without a flashlight (efficient practice tools) in what is a huge dark forest. Eventually you're likely to stumble across one on your own (through trial and error), but many quit before they do. Many teachers can select roads for you, and most teachers can hold your hand and walk you to the end of each road, but few ironically seem to think of simply providing you with a flashlight instead, allowing you to illuminate your own path down each road.[/end analogy] The instruction of a good teacher is but a single direction - but it is a reliable one. There are many examples of past musicians that successfully traversed their own big dark forests without the initial aid of a flashlight or the even the guidance of a wise teacher, but the fact remains that they were incomparably self-motivated. This quote explains it best: "The road to success is going from one failure to the next with undiminished enthusiasm."

If you can't find or get a teacher, then at least try and get a good book or two to sit down with and garner advice from; it will also help if you know what you wish to be able to do one day with this instrument. Though certainly not nearly the same experience as taking a physical lesson from the [experienced] author/teacher, there's still much that can be learned.

"[The trick to life isn't] just about living forever. The trick is still living with yourself forever."

I was going to learn myself. In doing so. I read a book titled: The Art of Practicing by Madeline Bruser. She had so much to say. I was impressed. I had to find a good teacher.

What I have is a very talented, accomplished performer. I am probably his only beginner. He understands much. He is invaluable to me. Even though we are rather running it like I'm going for whatever I can learn. We go over problems and my misunderstandings in the teaching. He is more like letting me teach myself. But making sure I don't goof up. At this low level, he doesn't need to control me much. We do lessons over Skype.

I do think you can do it. You at least need to read good books like I mentioned above. To give you understanding. Won't be as fast as a teacher. I think you can do it. Keep looking for really good books. Ones that give you understanding. You don't have to buy them. I'm sure the libraries in the UK are like here now. They can get you any book you want. From anywhere.

Thank you all very much for your extremely interesting and invaluable replies and the very important links, it is very much appreciated.

For a while now I have been alone, teaching myself and I feel I have reached a barrier beyond which I am unable to go without returning to the basics so that I can check whether or not I have missed something out which eventually was leading me to hit this barrier.

I have to be honest and strict and not kid myself.

I shall keep playing the pieces I have already studied, and I shall see whether I can improve.

But I have also bought myself the “Adult-All-In-One-Course”, "Alfred’s Basic Adult Beginner Piano Course", and I shall start today at page one to re-trace slowly and carefully where I have gone wrong to hit this barrier which seems to “have cramped me up”.

I thank you all very much for your kind encouragement, your help and your very constructive suggestions,

I believe this is the most discussed topic on the ABF... teacher/no teacher.

We all seek advice, encouragement, direction, ideas, etc...

We all learn from others, without a doubt.

With that being said, I do not take lessons directly, one on one, and pay money for it, but I do have many teachers here and there, some here on PW.

I will say that not having direct, one on one lessons from a teacher, I probably have it all wrong. However, I do have my own unique style of playing, likely different from anyone elses. Don't know if others who hear me play like it, but I like it. :-)

Also, learning to play the piano is a never ending process... always learning and polishing what we already know.

All the best!

Rick

Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

Thank you all very much for your extremely interesting and invaluable replies and the very important links, it is very much appreciated.

For a while now I have been alone, teaching myself and I feel I have reached a barrier beyond which I am unable to go without returning to the basics so that I can check whether or not I have missed something out which eventually was leading me to hit this barrier.

I have to be honest and strict and not kid myself.

I shall keep playing the pieces I have already studied, and I shall see whether I can improve.

But I have also bought myself the “Adult-All-In-One-Course”, "Alfred’s Basic Adult Beginner Piano Course", and I shall start today at page one to re-trace slowly and carefully where I have gone wrong to hit this barrier which seems to “have cramped me up”.

I thank you all very much for your kind encouragement, your help and your very constructive suggestions,

kind regards from Kristina.

I got in here a little late but I want to add one more thing to this discussion.

I have found that the single most important factor in making real progress is staying with something until you can do it very well. I tend to get discouraged and move on to something else and that I find easier. Well, when you do that it takes you longer to break through to that next level.

That is what a teacher can do for you. A teacher can assure you that you can do it and help get you through it.

You can do that on your own also. It just seems harder to keep at it with no-one to push you through it.

I got in here a little late but I want to add one more thing to this discussion.

I have found that the single most important factor in making real progress is staying with something until you can do it very well. I tend to get discouraged and move on to something else and that I find easier. Well, when you do that it takes you longer to break through to that next level.

That is what a teacher can do for you. A teacher can assure you that you can do it and help get you through it.

You can do that on your own also. It just seems harder to keep at it with no-one to push you through it.

I'm sure the right person can do that but I also know from personal experience that, as Edtek has suggested, the wrong teacher can do just the opposite; or as I have also experienced and those students I mentioned in my performance class show, a teacher can provide encouragement and help while creating bad habits or not providing the the skill set you need to achieve your goals. As Rick has said, you can get plenty of encouragement and help from many teachers offering help and advice online for free. Why rigidly accept a single type and risk that it be the wrong kind, while paying for the privilege?

BTW, Don, did you ever get that new keyboard? What did you finally decide on, the Roland 700nx or FP7F?

Some kite fliers who play piano as a hobby and decide to make a few extra quid. I know a couple of these people. Helen only teaches piano as a side job, she is only a grade 5. Another Helen who lives nearby is a grade 1, and tries to charge £25 an hour. These kite fliers often own seriously battered or out of tune pianos.

While Andy S, who's been teaching for 15 years and owns a Steinway and a couple of Chang pianos charges £21 for an hour IF you block book 15 lessons and pay in advance.

For a while I was taught by an old geezer, he was charging me about £10 for an hour, he was retired and had 10 students and had been teaching all his life. He retired though as he was starting to get past his prime (see my thread teachers bad day).

Before that I had an old woman who had a LOT of cats, I would give her £15 and get about 2 hours. There were cats EVERYWHERE which meant those 2 hours were more like a 80-85 minutes.

I used to have an awesome professional sax teacher for several years for 45.00 for 45 minutes in about the 1989.

Leaving aside the fingering because it was a sax not the piano.

I learned to count the notes inside a measure because they have to add up.

I learned to count measures because I played in a band and I had to know when to play and not to play.

I learn to read the music and play slowly and without mistakes else you have to slow down to play it correctly - no exception.

I learned to listen to what I play because if you listen to yourself - as opposed to your ego - you will sadly hear your mistakes.

I learned to record myself because hearing what you play lets you hear how you really sound.

I am on a disability pension so I don't have the money for a teacher now, but playing the piano I have had over the life time had a few piano lessons so I know how important it is to have your hand and fingers operating properly. You can see a million videos for free on the internet of the best players doing their thing.

Critical - and I mean critical is to follow to the letter of the law a method book for good reason.

When you are learning something new, you know nothing and will fall in the dark. I am bias, as I have looked at every music method book in a large music store and without a doubt I find that the method piano book for me for the piano is John Thompson Modern course for the piano is safe, has nice pieces and a challenge with every piece.

All I have to do is open my piano book and crawl though a piece measure by measure over about three days and then I can usually in those 3 days get through the piece with few or no mistakes, else I slow down to no mistakes and then play it everyday several times a day for 20 minute periods and play my other pieces I know which I review day after day. It takes me many months of playing the pieces many times everyday playing it to the best of my ability without mistakes. It is a long slow process that is why you have to love the journey.

That is all there is to it. It is critical that you review your pieces because each piece teaches you something so it is critical that you play all your pieces all the time. That is why I can read the music because that I all I do is read music at the piano and play it. You don't look at your hands because there is no reason to. You know where your fingers are on the piano and you say the notes as you play them.

As I have said before, I my dyslexic, I memory problems and have had a stroke, so anyone can learn to play the piano if they follow the method book and play and practice without mistakes slowly.

I found this in a book called Smallwood's piano tutor:

Slow and even counting is essential.Endeavour to maintain strict time in all exercises.Correct fingering as shown must be used to ensure smooth playing.Begin these exercises slowly and gradually increase speed. --------> DON'T memorise the sound, but READ every note and play it as written with its correct time value.

So you can learn to play the piano without a teacherif you don't try to cut corners because it will not work.

Remember, once you can play the 5 volumes of any method piano books taking several years, you can play anything else you want, but until then you must do everything well in the book as instructed and practice and review everyday without exception.