​Tax Residency clause may have been clumsily worded: P Chidambaram

"The markets were jittery yesterday because they perhaps misunderstood the meaning of a clause."

In an exclusive interview with ET Now's Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyar and Supriya Shrinate, Finance Minister P Chidambaram clarifies on tax treaty and shares his views on a number of issues ranging from GAAR to the growth-inflation balance. Excerpts:

Supriya Shrinate: Markets were a little jittery. You have issued an explanation as far as the Tax Residency Certificate issue was concerned. Do you think it clears the air?

P Chidambaram: The markets were jittery yesterday because they perhaps misunderstood the meaning of a clause and I can understand why they may have misunderstood. It was rather clumsily worded. They just lifted the last year's paragraph from the memorandum to the finance bill and put it in the section. It has not become law yet. It is a bill. So when I read that clause again, I said it is clumsily worded, but we will clarify. The Tax Residency Certificate is evidence of a person's resident status. Certainly the department cannot go behind that and as far as other conditions are required under different DTAAs for other kinds of taxable transactions, those conditions will apply. As far as residency is concerned, the TRC is conclusive evidence.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: As far as I could see the reason why a number of people got very worried is that there are some people who have been misusing the Mauritius thing. They are not in fact residents out there. They are using a resident as the agent to try and get through the Mauritius route, want to escape tax in India. Is there any difficulty in saying to the extent that people are misusing this, we will go after them?

P Chidambaram: That is a larger question involving the Government of Mauritius and for the last about 7 or 8 years, we are in discussions with the Government of Mauritius to revise the treaty and unless we revise the treaty, I do not think we should do anything unilaterally. Therefore, this clause was not intended to revise the treaty unilaterally. That is an ongoing discussion and that discussion will lead us to some conclusion.

Supriya Shrinate: There is, however, the fact that the well laid out benefit clause has not really been spelt out and most people believe that whoever wants to implement GAAR, it may be your government, it may be another government two years later, will allegations be raised that there is lack of certainty all over again?

P Chidambaram: This is a very different issue. The GAAR provisions are being introduced in the bill to amend the existing GAAR provisions, Chapter 10A, that will be debated in Parliament and that will become law when Parliament passes the finance bill and that will come into operation on 01.04.2016. So GAAR is not an issue today. What Swami is talking about is the TRC.

Supriya Shrinate: But even the benefit clause sir, there is a lot of angst and there is a lot of anxiousness around that. Most people believe that your statement that you have put out today does not really address the beneficial ownership clause.

P Chidambaram: The statement put out today is nothing to do with GAAR. The statement put out today by the CBDT addresses the issue of the status of a tax residence certificate.

Supriya Shrinate: You started by saying that you were not happy with the language. It was clumsy. For a man as meticulous as you and who looks into such detail, I am a little surprised that this could actually go in. Are you upset about the verdict?

P Chidambaram: No, I understand it correctly as I think correctly, but if someone understands it differently -- since two people understand the same clause differently -- the mildest one I can use is clumsy, but in plain reading to me, it is quite clear.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: Let me take you to the macroeconomics. This budget clearly is aiming to stimulate growth and check inflation. Now we find that the budget figures say we are projecting nominal GDP growth of 13.4%. Now if you talk about 6.4% as being real growth, that is as high as 7% inflation.

P Chidambaram: I will tell you the number. 6.5% growth, 6.5% inflation. The way we arrive at GDP is 1.065 multiplied by 1.065 and you will get 13.4.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: Even 6.5 inflation, your last figure that came in on the wholesale price index, it was already down to that level and Raghuram Rajan's economic survey seems to point that there is a downward trend. So a lot of people said surely it has to get lower than that.

P Chidambaram: If it gets lower than that, then perhaps the growth number will go up a bit. We want inflation to come lower, but we have to be realistic. There is very bad drought situation in Maharashtra. The Rabi has to come in, the monsoon has to be good promising a good Kharif and then we can sit back and say inflation has been finally tamed. So they are assuming rather conservative numbers as far as inflation is concerned, but if inflation does come down, I will be very happy and hope that growth will also pick up. So eventually we might end up with 13.4.

Swaminathan Anklesaria Aiyer: There have been some drought conditions in Maharashtra, but that is this fiscal year, coming fiscal year there is still one more kharif and one more rabi before the election. Assuming both those are normal, assuming that there is no drought, would you not expect inflation to come down?

P Chidambaram: Well, I do not know how you count rabi and kharif. This rabi I count it only in April.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: Okay, but even then?

P Chidambaram: The next rabi is into the next financial year.

Supriya Shrinate: But I still want to ask you while Swami is debating on the growth bit 4.5% is what you have got in Q3, I know you believe things can turnaround in the fourth quarter, 6.5% many believe is being ambitious. You believe you can end up higher than that because we are really working with provisions of 5% growth for this fiscal. Do you think enough have been done in this budget to achieve that 6.5% you could perhaps end up higher and also just from a economic buoyancy point of view, your budget's mathematics hinges on the fact that you will get to the growth figure and you risk much if you do not?

P Chidambaram: All budget mathematics are premised on some growth figures. We have taken 13.4% for nominal GDP growth and we will be there, but if we do better, that is good. If we do slightly worse than that, then we will have to think of other ways to boost growth, but we will do 13.4%.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: This Q3 figure has come out at 4.5%, which to some people is disappointing. On the other hand if you look at the CSO projection of 5.0% for the year, it's bang on it.

P Chidambaram: Actually the Q3 figure is derived from the files. So it is not based on any new data.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: The two are consistent with each other, yes. But there are some people who are arguing that this shows that the economy has not bottomed out. Therefore 6.5% is an unrealistic jump. Other optimist would say on the other hand because the base has now become so low, 6.5 actually becomes much easier on the lower base of these two projections. Which do you think is the better way of looking at it?

Supriya Shrinate: Or could you actually end higher?

P Chidambaram: I can only go by my Chief Economic Advisor and I can then rely upon the Prime Minister's Economic Advisory Council. Both have projected a growth rate of slightly over 6% and between 6.1 and 6.7%, the average is 6.4%.

Supriya Shrinate: You spoke about growth and you said that the government alone cannot walk the talk on growth. You do need monetary policy to support it, given the fiscal consolidation map that you put in and efforts that have been made or reforms that have been introduced in the run up to the budget, do you think enough has been done to actually see an aggressive RBI policy from here at least on rate cuts?

P Chidambaram: But we will have to see at the next round of monetary policy review. I am sure that the Governor has taken note of all that I have said in the budget speech, all that we have done in terms of budgeting, the fact that we have contained fiscal deficit to 5.2% and the fact that I am pretty confident. I will be able to contain fiscal deficit below 4.8% next year.

Supriya Shrinate: You have said that you will hope that the Governor has listened to your speech carefully. Will a 6.5% be possible without the Governor buying your point of view and actually cutting rates aggressively?

P Chidambaram: Well, I will answer in this way -- reduction in interest rates will certainly help get us to 6.5%.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: There were people who said look we will time a fiscal consolidation and yet we see the overall spending is up by 16% in the budget. In other words budget spending to even nominal GDP is going up instead of coming down. So there were some people who are looking for some shrinkage and said you guys are not being tough enough. What is your reaction to that?

P Chidambaram: That is not right. Last year the budget estimate for the plan was 5,21,000 crore and this year we have increased it to 5,55,322 crore. If you look upon BE upon BE, there is a modest increase. Obviously I cannot set a BE for 2013-2014, less than the BE of 2012-2013. Therefore 5,55,322 crore is a realistic and a necessary plan size. If you look at total expenditure much of the non-planned is committed, there is nothing you can do about it. You have to pay salaries, you have to pay for your defence, you have to pay for your paramilitary, you have to pay interest charges, you have to pay pensions, much of it is committed. So all that a finance minister can do there is to look at the size of the non-planned envelop and say well, let me find the resources to meet it. That is what we are doing.

Supriya Shrinate: Why not resources? What are your big revenue mobilisation schemes? I do not think the government is staring at or looking at a one off like a 3G auction, the 2G it seems to suggest spectrum is no longer as valued resources it used to be, but you still budgeted for Rs 40,000 crore. What are going to be a big revenue streams?

P Chidambaram: I have a statement in writing from the DoT how they are going to give me that amount. It includes one time fee, it includes fees for the access revenues which is consequent upon the Supreme Court judgement. It includes the annual payments they will make on the licences they bid and they will have to make it over the next 10 years. So it has broken down into various components and they have given me that number. So I will hold them to that number. See last time 40,000 has put in there without an analysis. So just a number was put in there. This time I have got it broken down to the last digit. So I will hold them to that number and I will try to get that revenue.

Supriya Shrinate: I do hope you can hold Mr. Kapil Sibal to that number, but I still have two questions on that. Much of it is going to be under litigation, it already is one time fee, there has been a stay on the court, refarming has also been contested by the telecos. So much is under litigation. The second point is that we have seen two spectrum auctions and the kind of response it has evoked does not seem to be a valued resource.

P Chidambaram: That part has been factored in the statement that these auctions are not likely to get us the money soon or at all, but litigation may not be bad for me. If the matter goes to court and say the highest court, it is quite likely I will get the money quicker. So I do not think you need to come to the conclusion that litigation will mean delay in payment. Litigation might actually accelerate the payment.

Supriya Shrinate: That is the lawyer in you talking. Before I take it to Swami, I have one question to ask you on litigation. You are trying to talk out and settle the matter with Vodafone. Many people thought that your budget will at least make a reference to the retrospective tax amendment that was made in the budget last year. You have chosen to stay silent on it?

P Chidambaram: Because there is nothing to say at the moment. On the retrospective taxation all that the Shome Committee said was the government should as far as possible avoid retrospective taxation, but if you are obliged to make a law retrospectively and collect a tax, collect the tax alone and raid the penalty and interest which as a principal is unexceptionable.

Supriya Shrinate: But this is a rare case as well?

P Chidambaram: But this has nothing to do with resolving the Vodafone issue. The Vodafone issue has been settled by Parliament. Vodafone wants to re-open that through arbitration. We rejected arbitration. So Vodafone is now offered conciliation. The matter will go to the Cabinet. Conciliation is non-biding. So once the Vodafone issue is resolved and that is put behind us, then we can always move the amendments necessary to reflect the Shome Committee recommendations.

Supriya Shrinate: How hopeful are you of smoking the piece pipe with Vodafone? From arbitration, they have come down to conciliation. Nobody wants to fight with the government.

P Chidambaram: I have said quite a number of times that I want the issue resolved and put behind us and I have told Vodafone when they met me I want it resolved. If you want it resolved, let us find a way out. I think they will find a way out.

Supriya Shrinate: Are you willing to settle for lower finances from the transaction?

P Chidambaram: You are not the conciliator.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: Fiscal consolidation, there are still some questions that the kind of measures that you are bringing about, you have got your numbers -- the 5.2 and 4.8 -- but then say how sustainable is this? There is a worry that many of the things that you are doing are one of measures which will last for just a year, then they disappear. Even your surcharge on income tax and corporate tax is for a year; spectrum, the disinvestment, there is a very high dividend from the RBI, which looks like ....

P Chidambaram: Actually, actually there is an argument that the RBI can give us more.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: I see. Can you just give the argument?

P Chidambaram: The argument is RBI has a very large income. It puts it away in many reserves wisely, but surely they have the capacity to pay us more by way of dividend and this number is not a unilaterally fixed number, it is a number agreed upon between the government and the RBI. So nothing surprising about this number.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: Profits are usually high when they have monetised the deficit, when they are holding large number of government bond....

P Chidambaram: No I cannot.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: On the one hand you pay the money in the form of interest, then they will give it back to you in the form of dividend.

P Chidambaram: Whatever it is, it is available with RBI as RBI's surpluses and RBI's surpluses can only be shared with the government, otherwise it goes to build RBI's reserves. Therefore, we talked to the governor and we agree upon on a number. This is an agreed number and on the larger question, I have looked at these numbers everyday for the last two months.

Supriya Shrinate: We do not oppose that.

P Chidambaram: You have looked at it with greater insight than I can bring over the last 24 hours. So why should you think that I cannot defend these numbers? I can defend these numbers. You raise any number and I will defend it.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: No I am saying that sustainability a bit, your surcharge is only for one year; spectrum, once it is disinvested, it is not going to be repeated.

P Chidambaram: Once growth picks up, that will give revenues. What happens between 2004 and 2008. Money was pouring out of our ears and nose and eyes, and we gave so much money to the states. All the states barring one or two became revenue surplus. Therefore, when growth picks up, revenues pick up. I have seen it happen between 2004 and 2008. So I am banking on growth crossing the 6% hurdle in 2013-2014 and growth crossing the 7% hurdle in 2014-2015.

Supriya Shrinate: I have a question on the FDI and FII simplification that you have given. It is welcome, the new definition, but what happens to companies where there are sectoral caps because some of the companies reacted very sharply in trade because there are sectoral caps and with that definition FII actually becomes FDI component.

P Chidambaram: No, no, you should read that paragraph carefully. I said as a broad principle we are laying down investment stake below 10% will be regarded as FII and anything above 10% will be regarded as FDI and I added the application of this principle will be examined by a committee. I realised that more granular exercise has to be done sectorally and then we will have to examine whether the 10% applies to voting power. These are things which have to examined, but it is good to send a signal to the world that we are following international practice and the international practice is clear -- anything below 10% is regarded as FII and anything above 10% is regarded as FDI. That is a broad principle. When we apply it to different sectors, there will be some variation.

Supriya Shrinate: You have always been a strong advocate of buoyant capital markets, economic buoyancy. Most market participants believe the budget has addressed a lot of their concerns, there is an STT cut, RGESS has been made more inclusive, but they perhaps expect more aggressive things to happen in capital markets. Are their expectations misplaced or will we see a lot happen outside of the budget?

P Chidambaram: See, none of you has really read carefully the portions on capital market, on insurance, on banking. Those are not 'sexy items' for items for television channels, but you read it carefully, every single bullet under those paragraphs has taken us weeks of discussions with the regulator, with the industry, with the other stakeholders and then drafting. Every one of them is an important decision. Every one of them has many beneficial consequences. When all these decisions are implemented as there will be from today, SEBI will make whatever rules and regulations it has to make. IRDA will issue the rules and guidelines that it has to do. RBI will issue the circulars and guidelines. You will find that this budget has done more for the financial market than any recent budget.

Supriya Shrinate: Sure enough, but I have a question there and which is why it just follows from what you just said. The fact is that many people who are watching this budget -- investors, Indian Inc, the aam aadmi -- say they wanted to know what you would do with them. It is the rating agencies that were really playing havoc, they kept saying we are watching the budget and we will decide thereafter. As far as your fiscal consolidation map is concerned and like you said you looked at these numbers for the last two months and you are obviously in a position to defend it, do not you think then there is a case for assessment higher than what they have done for India because they have been conspicuously silent in the last 24 hours?

P Chidambaram: No, I read that S&P and Fitch have made statements welcoming the budget. I respect the view of a rating agency, but I do not make a budget for the rating agency. I make a budget for the people of India. They may rate us high or low, but all that we are doing certainly should disabuse anyone that India is a candidate for down rating or down grading.

Supriya Shrinate: Are we a candidate for an upgrade?

P Chidambaram: Well, it does not really matter to me whether we are upgraded or not. If they are looking for candidates for down grading, I can suggest several other countries.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: But let us come to the budget which is supposed to be for the people. It is not only for the aam aadmi, it is now for the aam voter because there is an election coming. This is an election budget and you said this is not an election just for Standard and Poor. Historically there has been an attempt to have a large number of populist measures. There is no such attempt at all this time. The contrast could not be greater. Do you believe that the new emphasis that you have on growth and inflation is as much of a vote winner as the farm loan waiver or NREGA last time?

P Chidambaram: I do not think NREGA or farm loan waiver were done in order to 'buy votes'. NREGA was necessary to banish hunger, poverty. The farm loan waiver was necessary because we had a spate of farmer suicides, farmers who had been indebted. Now you do not have so many suicides among farmers who are indebted, there are suicides for other reasons and in order to restore the health of the farm sector we had to do that wavier. Now frankly we got more votes in urban India last time than rural India.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: Growth.

P Chidambaram: So this argument that we bought votes of rural India is belied by the results of the election. People are wiser than we are willing to attribute to them. People understand what is good for them in the long run. In the long run, what is good for people is that India's economy continues to grow at clipping pace, 8% and above, that itself brings host of benefits to the people. It brings better roads, it brings better schools, brings more money to the communities, it brings more jobs. Growth is a panacea for many ills in society; not entirely, but many. Growth itself will give us the lift that we required to win an election and we are in a situation today, we have to embrace growth unhesitatingly. That is why in the opening paragraph's of mine speech I said we must unhesitatingly embrace growth because without growth there will be neither inclusiveness nor development. The people know who can bring them long-term growth, but with a caution that the moral reason for growth is always kept in mind. Growth is good, growth is necessary, growth is an imperative, but growth must lead to equity.

Supriya Shrinate: I subscribe your point to people buying the argument for growth and how it is going to bring them equitable growth, so to say? The question that I want to ask you is have you been able to convince your party because you seem to have that good economics is after all good politics. This was not the case two years back. There are so many reforms that you have been able to push through that one never thought the Congress would bite the bullet on.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: Obviously, we have been breaking our heads for years saying why do not you have small increase in diesel price over several months? It could have been done years ago. Why did it have to wait till that?

P Chidambaram: I do not know of anyone who said small increases. I thought that was our own idea. Everyone said diesel prices should be corrected, free diesel prices. Nobody said make small increases.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: Ram Nayak made small increases so many times when he was the petroleum minister.

P Chidambaram: Ram Nayak did not make small increases, he made infinitesimal adjustments, that is not really increases. He was raising it by 5 paisa and then another another 5 paisa.

Supriya Shrinate: But does the Congress finally...?

P Chidambaram: But then Ram Nayak did not have that problem either because crude oil prices did not cross $37 a barrel, but I am dealing with $110 to $115 a barrel. So the Congress party stands by reforms and supports the government when it carries out reforms, but the Congress party is also the conscience keeper of the party rank and file. It is also the conscience keeper of the poor of this country. So the Congress party must constantly remind the government in your zeal for reforms please do not forget who these reforms are for. The object of the reform is to bring about equitable, fair, just development and that is a perfectly valid voice of the conscience which the government must heed.

Supriya Shrinate: Sure enough. How easy or difficult was it to not give into the expectations of politicians? Politicians would want flashy, populist schemes, something that would make headlines.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: To supplement that can you please tell us which were the populist schemes that other suggested to you.

P Chidambaram: Actually they may have entertained some ideas before August 1, but after I took over in on August 1 and made that statement on 6th of August and then at every opportunity explained that the economy is really challenged now, no one really suggested a major 'populist' scheme. Yes, one or two people suggested that we should do another loan wavier, but that was a very feeble voice. Most people understood that what will bring them rewards is sustained growth and they understood that there is a new middle class this is educated, this knows what is happening in the world, this will question everything that we do and therefore we must recognise that we cannot get away with window-dressed schemes, we need sustained solid growth.

Supriya Shrinate: The new middle class is also anxious and agitated, but I want to take the attention away from what has really happened?

P Chidambaram: And they are anxious and agitated about what?

Supriya Shrinate: Did you see how agitated the common man on the road is. I mean, of course if over the last month...

P Chidambaram: After the budget?

Supriya Shrinate: Not after the budget, I am saying in general but just to take the attention away from the budget, the three big things that you are going to perhaps look at is the GST, the insurance and pension and the food security bill just to begin with the GST you have tried to win the states over, I mean, Swami and I have had a discussions, I think you have had a very pragmatic approach, you have made an allocation in the budget itself. How confident are you that this ambitious tax reform will actually see the light of day, we have been going back and forth?

P Chidambaram: I have read Mr. Sushil Modi's statement this morning. That is a very positive statement. He has welcomed the paragraph in the budget speech and he said that the trust deficit has narrowed considerably and he hopes to take it forward. He has to deal with the state finance ministers and without naming anyone, he has got two problems there and they belong to his party. So he has to convince his party to prevail upon the state finance ministers to support him on the GST. I respect Mr. Modi. I think his commitment to the GST is unquestionable and with him steering the state finance minister's group and me in this chair, I hope that we can conclude our discussions on GST, say, by May or June.

Supriya Shrinate: Just on the insurance and pension bill, your own suggestion is that it should go up to 49%. The Opposition does not want that to happen, they have said they will let it pass only if you curtail it to 26%. If we were to see that reform through, do we believe that the government would blink on this and go with what the Opposition wants?

P Chidambaram: I do not think it is a question of one or rather blinking. I have had two rounds of discussion with the leaders of the Opposition. I have spoken to Mr. Yashwant Sinha and I was told that there will be another meeting when the principal Opposition party will tell us what are the options that we could consider. I think they are also reflecting, I think they have also had some discussions with the insurance industry and they are reflecting on the position they should take. So what you say may be an old position. Therefore, I have left the bill as it is, I have not made any new suggestions, but there will be some options we can consider.

Supriya Shrinate: And those options could even be as high as 49%?

P Chidambaram: Well, I do not know. Let us wait to see the options.

Supriya Shrinate: The food security bill is supposed to be this big UPA political bet, it is supposed to be a good thing most observers believe, Swami believes it is very affordable, you have just budgeted 10,000 crore over and above the PDS, but the principal Opposition does not also seem to have made up its mind on that. You actually hear very conflicting voices. How confident are you of actually seeing this through?

P Chidambaram: When I read that paragraph, I noticed that several Opposition members, including BJP members, were applauding. So why should I not believe that eventually the bill will be supported? I think the bill will be supported because the report of the standing committee is in favour of passing a bill.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: The direct benefit transfer, sometime ago when it was announced people said this is the game changer, this is the election winner, there was this feeling that this budget speech would come out with a huge amount of both detail, further detail and substantial rhetoric. You most certainly mentioned it, but it did not come out as the kind of thing that would be the game changer. So do you just see it as something that is quite useful but not a game changer?

P Chidambaram: No, no it is a game changer. All the rhetoric that was necessary to make it known to the people was done when we announced the scheme. There is no need to repeat that rhetoric again. Therefore it is a game changer, but as I said on day one it requires a lot of hard work and I explained in the media conference yesterday it requires erection of three pillars. The three pillars are not being erected at the same pace. So one is lagging behind the other, but the pillars will be erected and by the time the term of the government comes to an end, you will find that DBT has been rolled throughout India. Please remember the DBT beneficiaries are not those who appear on your channels for your discussions. The DBT beneficiaries are outside. I know them, I have seen them, I have touched them, they know what the DBT means. It is only an old woman who does not get her pension every month from the tehsildar or the revenue inspector knows the meaning of DBT.

Supriya Shrinate: Or has to shell out a part of it actually to get it?

P Chidambaram: It is a student, who does not know whether the scholarship has reached his college or not, who knows the benefit of DBT. We are reaching out to them and once the DBT is rolled out, you will find that it is a game changer.

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: It is an election year. There were people, I would say, by the middle of 2012 who were saying the Congress would find it difficult to get even 100 seats in the next election.

P Chidambaram: What do they say now?

Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer: As a result of the budget and the reforms what is your figure, how can you say it is a 2014?

P Chidambaram: We cannot put a number on the figure, but all I can say is come elections, people know what is good for them for the long term despite some warts, despite some blemishes they know that not only for material benefit, not only for economic growth, there are other considerations. The voter does not vote only on one issue, the voter votes on a multiplicity of issues. The voter will come to the conclusion that between the rival formation or may be a third formation or a fourth formation, the Congress-led formation is a safe bet for him and his children for her and her family.

Supriya Shrinate: I like the 'she' part of the budget and I really applaud you for it. There were too many references made to she which is a very good thing. I have a last question for you. You came in on the 1st of August, the economy was in doldrums, I think trust deficit was only widening between the government and the industry, the fisc was in a mess. You have tried to sort out stuff. I think you have been able to rein in the deficit at 5.2%, which is a huge thumbs up for most stakeholders. The question that I want to ask you is 24 hours later after you have presented your eight budget, did you have a peaceful night of sleep?

P Chidambaram: I slept peacefully over the last two months. I did not miss a night's sleep.

Supriya Shrinate: Is it a job as you thought you would get it done?

P Chidambaram: Well, this was a very challenged economy. Therefore, one had to trade very carefully, but putting together the numbers was not very difficult. I have done it before and therefore I am familiar with the way the numbers are put together and putting together the numbers was not difficult. It is just that not doing anything wrong, not trying to be flashy or exaggerate what we can do, just doing the right things, just doing the basic things that have to be done to restart the growth engine. First we have to ensure that the rail does not derail. The trains remain on the track, we have to restart the growth engine. All the guys and the men and the women who appear on your channels and speak eloquently must now go back and open their purses and begin to invest. It is not enough to lecture to the government. Ultimately they have to open their purses and begin to invest. Public sector, private sector must invest. Once they begin to invest, you will see that the train begins to move. What this budget has done is restart the growth engine which had got stalled.

Supriya Shrinate: Was this the toughest budget you have produced of the eight?

P Chidambaram: In terms of putting like the numbers, it was not very tough.

Supriya Shrinate: In terms of the challenges you had before you?

P Chidambaram: In terms of the environment, yes, because the economy is quite challenged and the environment is challenged and one had to find his way very carefully.