Given the contentious nature of TFA, I think Subby did a good job of not picking sides other than "anti snap-judgment." Maybe it is a meritless case, maybe it is a great case, but the judge should at least give the litigants the time of day.

nmrsnr:For Fark's sake, is it really that hard NOT to pray at a school function?

Sometimes I think that there's a widely held belief that if you aren't actively, openly praising Jesus (and other religions in other cultures are the same way) you're tacitly praising the devil. God needs a lot of reminders that he's on our minds.

Dinki:Otherwise they will lapse into hedonistic debauchery and wanton depravity.

I fail to see any issues with this. They should try it.

factoryconnection:nmrsnr: For Fark's sake, is it really that hard NOT to pray at a school function?

Sometimes I think that there's a widely held belief that if you aren't actively, openly praising Jesus (and other religions in other cultures are the same way) you're tacitly praising the devil. God needs a lot of reminders that he's on our minds.

If that's true, then god doesn't need prayers, he needs a psychiatrist and maybe group therapy.

factoryconnection:Sometimes I think that there's a widely held belief that if you aren't actively, openly praising Jesus (and other religions in other cultures are the same way) you're tacitly praising the devil. God needs a lot of reminders that he's on our minds.

factoryconnection:nmrsnr: For Fark's sake, is it really that hard NOT to pray at a school function?

Sometimes I think that there's a widely held belief that if you aren't actively, openly praising Jesus (and other religions in other cultures are the same way) you're tacitly praising the devil. God needs a lot of reminders that he's on our minds.

It's more a not so subtle attempt to ostracize non believers by showing the public they aren't part of the group. No kid wants to be the odd man out when a majority go to show off their faith, leaving you standing outside.

Antimatter:factoryconnection: nmrsnr: For Fark's sake, is it really that hard NOT to pray at a school function?

Sometimes I think that there's a widely held belief that if you aren't actively, openly praising Jesus (and other religions in other cultures are the same way) you're tacitly praising the devil. God needs a lot of reminders that he's on our minds.

It's more a not so subtle attempt to ostracize non believers by showing the public they aren't part of the group. No kid wants to be the odd man out when a majority go to show off their faith, leaving you standing outside.

The creepiest thing about this to me is that students are getting an official graduation from elementary school. If I had an elementary school graduation, I don't remember it.

When you graduate from high school, the diploma shows that you have met the basic requirements for entering the adult world and that all further schoolwork is optional and personal. That's something that merits celebration. When you get a participatory award for completing your multiplication drills, it signifies that you learned something about multiplication but you don't have a special ceremony. What special significance is passing fifth grade? Congratulations, you're not quite halfway there?

The oppression by liberals on Christians in this country is stunning. Infact one of the biggest liberals in recorded history even said to pray in the closet and not make a public spectacle of yourself. Can you believe that?! Where's my rifle, i need to go stand my ground against something, stupid liberal world.

factoryconnection:nmrsnr: For Fark's sake, is it really that hard NOT to pray at a school function?

Sometimes I think that there's a widely held belief that if you aren't actively, openly praising Jesus (and other religions in other cultures are the same way) you're tacitly praising the devil. God needs a lot of reminders that he's on our minds.

He is a jealous God and needs to be consulted/updated on your situation and desires at least 10 times a day otherwise He might get the idea you're cheating on Him with that pagan slut that just started working at your office YOU KNOW WHO HE'S TALKING ABOUT, HE'S SEEN YOU LOOKING AT HER!!!

FTFA: The plaintiffs alleged that the district infringed upon their First Amendment Establishment Clause by holding Mountain View's graduation ceremony at a religious venue and incorporating prayer as a part of the official graduation program, according to court filings.

I'm an atheist and generally support the AHA, however, in this instance, I think they might be over-doing it.

FTFA: They asked a judge to block Mountain View Elementary from holding ceremonies at a chapel at North Greenville University, a Southern Baptist-affiliated school, and allowing student-led prayers.

If it were faculty or administration led prayers, that would be one thing, but if the students want to lead prayers, denying them the right to do so seems like it would be an infringement on their religious liberties. If the AHA were to limit their suit to the issue of the location, that would be one thing, but as long as the student-led prayers don't require participation by those who do not with to participate, I don't see the problem.

One of my Jewish friends left a town council meeting in Tennessee... he wanted to talk about extending hours for a playground near his house during the summer, since there's more sunlight hours... he said there was a 10+ minute prayer (he left and it still wasn't over), repeatedly invoking Jesus as the one true savior. I asked why he didn't just ignore it.. his response was that he knows where he's not welcome, and it's probably time for him to move, so he shouldn't care about the playground hours any more. Apparently as he was leaving, he got lots of dirty looks and one person said aloud "he was going to hell anyways."

geek_mars:I'm an atheist and generally support the AHA, however, in this instance, I think they might be over-doing it.

FTFA: They asked a judge to block Mountain View Elementary from holding ceremonies at a chapel at North Greenville University, a Southern Baptist-affiliated school, and allowing student-led prayers.

If it were faculty or administration led prayers, that would be one thing, but if the students want to lead prayers, denying them the right to do so seems like it would be an infringement on their religious liberties. If the AHA were to limit their suit to the issue of the location, that would be one thing, but as long as the student-led prayers don't require participation by those who do not with to participate, I don't see the problem.

The teacher asked which student was gonna lead our Christian prayer today... but it was totally student led. How about SC starts teaching a little more science in school and focuses on things kids actually need to know instead of ghost story time?

firefly212:One of my Jewish friends left a town council meeting in Tennessee... he wanted to talk about extending hours for a playground near his house during the summer, since there's more sunlight hours... he said there was a 10+ minute prayer (he left and it still wasn't over), repeatedly invoking Jesus as the one true savior. I asked why he didn't just ignore it.. his response was that he knows where he's not welcome, and it's probably time for him to move, so he shouldn't care about the playground hours any more. Apparently as he was leaving, he got lots of dirty looks and one person said aloud "he was going to hell anyways."

But Anthony Kennedy just said recently that that kind of thing NEVER happens!

FTFA: The plaintiffs alleged that the district infringed upon their First Amendment Establishment Clause by holding Mountain View's graduation ceremony at a religious venue and incorporating prayer as a part of the official graduation program, according to court filings.

FTFA: The plaintiffs alleged that the district infringed upon their First Amendment Establishment Clause* by holding Mountain View's graduation ceremony at a religious venue** and incorporating prayer as a part of the official graduation program, according to court filings.

*Did the government found the church?

**Did the school?

qorkfiend:which has nothing to do with the part of the article you just referenced.

geek_mars:I'm an atheist and generally support the AHA, however, in this instance, I think they might be over-doing it.

FTFA: They asked a judge to block Mountain View Elementary from holding ceremonies at a chapel at North Greenville University, a Southern Baptist-affiliated school, and allowing student-led prayers.

If it were faculty or administration led prayers, that would be one thing, but if the students want to lead prayers, denying them the right to do so seems like it would be an infringement on their religious liberties. If the AHA were to limit their suit to the issue of the location, that would be one thing, but as long as the student-led prayers don't require participation by those who do not with to participate, I don't see the problem.

I'd agree if the school system didn't take the position that the students represent the schools at all times. The courts seem to agree. From the "Bong hits 4 Jesus" decision the judge said "It was reasonable for (the principal) to conclude that the banner promoted illegal drug use-- and that failing to act would send a powerful message to the students in her charge, "(Emphasis mine)So basically if they fail to stop the prayer at a school function, then they are in fact sending the message that they approve of the content by their own logic.

Now if the students want to organize something on their own time. That is completely different, but as long as their is official organization there should be no prayer of any kind.

Besides, they're supposed to do it in private... Matthew 6:6 says "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

Christians are SUCH dicks. Whining and biatching because they don't get to pretend everyone else doesn't exist. You will never find fewer Christ-like beings than in modern Christianity.

If we replaced the word "god" as it appears in modern American life with "Allah" or "Buddha" they would get it. But Christians telling nonchristians that they are not being discriminated against is a cosmic joke. Who better than the oppressor to tell the oppressed that the oppression is in their godless heathen heads? In fact, accusing your oppressors of oppression is oppression! Poor, poor tyrants.

TerminalEchoes:wildcardjack: Can't we just be offended by the idea of an elementary school graduation? That's enough to outrage me, like this marks anything but a change of educators and administrators to annoy.

Came here to say this. The most ridiculous part of the entire thing is that they're holding a graduation ceremony for the fifth farking grade.

But not that they're making them pray to God-duh. You have odd priorities.