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On that thought, what if when Haruhi came into her power, she somehow split herself into two people? (and inadvertently created two overlapping timelines which is what is preventing the time travelers from traveling further into the past)

Just a thought I had...

That is a possibility, it also falls in this category:

"Creation is always happening. Every time an individual has a thought, or a prolonged chronic way of thinking, they're in the creation process. Something is going to manifest out of those thoughts." - Rev. Michael Bernard Beckwith

As I understand, if Haruhi is an omnipotent person, that has no knowledge of her being, inadvertently created the universe has she believe her reality should be. With that as a process, she is "God". Has such essence of the universe is, then she has always been in the past, in the present and the future. If that is the case, then she is the universe itself, seeing and manifesting what it is in the past, present and future. If this statement holds merit, then "God" could have created Sasaki as a point in time, why not in the future why 2 years before Haruhi met Kyon? In such way it could explain that Sasaki is actually the equal opposite of Haruhi, which in sense it is Haruhi. After all "God" is everywhere, either in the past , present or future, she always is and always will be. This represent that Haruhi created Sasaki, in her image liking to Kyon as an opposite.After all, the essence of or the thoughts of "god" is everywhere creation is manifested.

Heh I've been lurking for a while. Being quite a fan of Haruhi, I have my own theories about the type of time travel the series has.

Let us imagine a line, in which one end signifies the past and one which signifies the future (Present for the time travelers)

Now let's say Time Traveler A wants to go to the past.

Upon arriving the past to accomplish some foretold event. This causes a point in which there is a disturbance of the time lime. Let's call this Point Break A

Let's say in a twist of fate Time Traveler A fails. We mark the point in which this failure occurs Point Break B.

Now we see that the point of failure and the results are isolated from one another because of Point Break A. We have this Frame effect Mikuru had explained.

Now if such a failure occurred which normally would cause a change in the future it would make the time travel Mikuru explained impossible. However by isolating the very presence of Time Traveler A's path the rest of the timeline both future and past is considered safe. Now to fill the gap. In order to keep the timeline stable an alternate timeline is used in supplement to the failed one. We call this space Restart A.

By this figure the theory states that the new supplemented piece of the time line can be accessed by Time Travelers. Also it should be noted that because the Time Traveler A's Path is isolated from the timeline the Time Traveler will not be lost. Infact it would seem that s/he did not even made the journey (This makes a trial and error method of solving problems with time traveling impossible) This makes the possibility of success possible even though failure may have happen several times. I call this the FATE FACTOR. The FATE FACTOR can be explained as such;

"Since it is destined to be, it must be."

Because it is destined to be the timeline will automatically loop until a satisfactory result is achieved. The FATE FACTOR is also the reason for the name of this theory; the FATE THEORY.

However there is much contradiction which can be used against the FATE FACTOR. Ones in which man time Mikuru (Big) has stressed the point of how everything must be done or all is lost. This can be actually be explained by the FATE FACTOR. Every time there is ever an error in the actions of Kyon or the rest of the SOS-Dan it is assumed that period of time is isolated and replaced. Therefore no matter how many times failure occurs the timeline reverts back to the point in which Kyon has a set of instructions (As seen in vol 7). Therefore repeating until Kyon succeeds.

Let's say Time Traveler A is going to try again, trying to solve the problem. But now perhaps there is another organization who sent its own time traveler to sabotage Time Traveler A's efforts. That time traveler is Time Traveler B. We now see both of their paths.

If you might remember Point Break A is where their journeys begin. Now let's say this time Time Traveler A succeeds yet Time Traveler B comes after Time Traveler A has already left back for home.
Now Time Traveler B has sabotaged the efforts of Time traveler A. S/he leaves for home and at that time causes Break Point C.

Now there are two possibilities. Either Time Traveler B is destined to succeed which would require Time Traveler A to return and either stop Time Traveler B during the period s/he is in between Break Point B and C. Or s/he must go back after Time Traveler B leaves for home. There are many possibilities.

However we know that endless amount of loops can occur as in seen in Endless Eight and there is no effect on the fabric of time. Which means that universes can be supplemented AND loop. This is what I call the ENDLESS FATE FACTOR. Which would be almost impossible to trigger unless your omnipotent (Like Haruhi). The difference is that the FATE FACTOR does not occur at all, in fact no replacement is used at all, instead time loops, allow Human Interfaces like Yuki to record such time, as no isolation actually takes place.

However in order to explain why Yuki could record all of the loops we must acknowledge that the memory reset is applicable to every form of sentient life however we can either assume that either 1. Yuki is not affected by this because she is not in that range of included life or 2. She has some sort of protection against outside forces that would other wise manipulate her memory. It is most likely that 2. is the one which is occurring.

Now how this goes with the alternate universes. What if the FATE FACTOR did not occur and we have 2 separate timelines at a single point.

Now as we can see there are now 2 separate timelines from a single one. At no point is either one truly isolated and removed. this means that there must be a trigger to both Break Point A and also what others have theorized as a trigger in order to shift the balance of the timeline having one being consumed by the other, returning the timeline into a stable form.

To summarize here are the laws of the FATE THEORY.

i. Time Moves in frames.
ii. The size of these frames differ drastically.
iii. A frame is created when there is a disturbance in the time line through means of time travelling and other means.
iv. Time is able to repair itself in a sense by creating restart areas.
v. However time is also able to loop indefinitely
vi. Time can also split into separate timelines which have the same origin and eventually the same end.
vii. However when either v or vi occurs there must be a trigger.

Now the real question is what IS the trigger? That’s for you to decide!

Heh I've been lurking for a while. Being quite a fan of Haruhi, I have my own theories about the type of time travel the series has.

Let us imagine a line, in which one end signifies the past and one which signifies the future (Present for the time travelers)

Now let's say Time Traveler A wants to go to the past.

Upon arriving the past to accomplish some foretold event. This causes a point in which there is a disturbance of the time lime. Let's call this Point Break A

Let's say in a twist of fate Time Traveler A fails. We mark the point in which this failure occurs Point Break B.

Now we see that the point of failure and the results are isolated from one another because of Point Break A. We have this Frame effect Mikuru had explained.

Now if such a failure occurred which normally would cause a change in the future it would make the time travel Mikuru explained impossible. However by isolating the very presence of Time Traveler A's path the rest of the timeline both future and past is considered safe. Now to fill the gap. In order to keep the timeline stable an alternate timeline is used in supplement to the failed one. We call this space Restart A.

By this figure the theory states that the new supplemented piece of the time line can be accessed by Time Travelers. Also it should be noted that because the Time Traveler A's Path is isolated from the timeline the Time Traveler will not be lost. Infact it would seem that s/he did not even made the journey (This makes a trial and error method of solving problems with time traveling impossible) This makes the possibility of success possible even though failure may have happen several times. I call this the FATE FACTOR. The FATE FACTOR can be explained as such;

"Since it is destined to be, it must be."

Because it is destined to be the timeline will automatically loop until a satisfactory result is achieved. The FATE FACTOR is also the reason for the name of this theory; the FATE THEORY.

However there is much contradiction which can be used against the FATE FACTOR. Ones in which man time Mikuru (Big) has stressed the point of how everything must be done or all is lost. This can be actually be explained by the FATE FACTOR. Every time there is ever an error in the actions of Kyon or the rest of the SOS-Dan it is assumed that period of time is isolated and replaced. Therefore no matter how many times failure occurs the timeline reverts back to the point in which Kyon has a set of instructions (As seen in vol 7). Therefore repeating until Kyon succeeds.

Let's say Time Traveler A is going to try again, trying to solve the problem. But now perhaps there is another organization who sent its own time traveler to sabotage Time Traveler A's efforts. That time traveler is Time Traveler B. We now see both of their paths.

If you might remember Point Break A is where their journeys begin. Now let's say this time Time Traveler A succeeds yet Time Traveler B comes after Time Traveler A has already left back for home.
Now Time Traveler B has sabotaged the efforts of Time traveler A. S/he leaves for home and at that time causes Break Point C.

Now there are two possibilities. Either Time Traveler B is destined to succeed which would require Time Traveler A to return and either stop Time Traveler B during the period s/he is in between Break Point B and C. Or s/he must go back after Time Traveler B leaves for home. There are many possibilities.

However we know that endless amount of loops can occur as in seen in Endless Eight and there is no effect on the fabric of time. Which means that universes can be supplemented AND loop. This is what I call the ENDLESS FATE FACTOR. Which would be almost impossible to trigger unless your omnipotent (Like Haruhi). The difference is that the FATE FACTOR does not occur at all, in fact no replacement is used at all, instead time loops, allow Human Interfaces like Yuki to record such time, as no isolation actually takes place.

However in order to explain why Yuki could record all of the loops we must acknowledge that the memory reset is applicable to every form of sentient life however we can either assume that either 1. Yuki is not affected by this because she is not in that range of included life or 2. She has some sort of protection against outside forces that would other wise manipulate her memory. It is most likely that 2. is the one which is occurring.

Now how this goes with the alternate universes. What if the FATE FACTOR did not occur and we have 2 separate timelines at a single point.

Now as we can see there are now 2 separate timelines from a single one. At no point is either one truly isolated and removed. this means that there must be a trigger to both Break Point A and also what others have theorized as a trigger in order to shift the balance of the timeline having one being consumed by the other, returning the timeline into a stable form.

To summarize here are the laws of the FATE THEORY.

i. Time Moves in frames.
ii. The size of these frames differ drastically.
iii. A frame is created when there is a disturbance in the time line through means of time travelling and other means.
iv. Time is able to repair itself in a sense by creating restart areas.
v. However time is also able to loop indefinitely
vi. Time can also split into separate timelines which have the same origin and eventually the same end.
vii. However when either v or vi occurs there must be a trigger.

Now the real question is what IS the trigger? That’s for you to decide!

Does anyone remember which volume is the Mystery Island? That is well the SOS Brigade to the island. I just purchased Vol1 to Vol3 the DVD, and I was comparing to the lighbook novels. I first listen them in Japanese and then in English. Not sure if this applies to the novels, but I was wondering if anyone remember which volume was that? I know that is only about the novels and mangas but how does it compared? So far it pretty damn close, but there was something that I noticed in that particular part...

Remember about ending, what Koizumi and Kyon where talking about...?
What was that "shadow" they where discussing?

I'm trying to find it at this moment, did I missed something in the novel?

As for the shadow, that wasn't mentioned in the novel. In fact, there was a major difference in the way the anime and the novels did Lone Island Syndrome: that would be: in the novels, Kyon confronts Koizumi about what happened, hears the supposed "truth", and then guesses that it was all an act because he doesn't believe it. Kyon and Haruhi didn't fall down the cliff after going outside, so Kyon and Haruhi didn't get to discuss what had happened amongst themselves: essentially, in the novels, Haruhi's role is reduced.

So why did Haruhi and Kyon fall down the cliff? Well, that would be because Haruhi saw a shadow, right? So the shadow only exists in the anime.

The other difference between the novel and the anime would be the presence of imouto-chan (well, actually, there's quite a few more, but those don't affect the mystery part). Imouto played a part in tricking Arakawa away from the door so that Kyon could force Tamaru-san to confess, which never happened in the novel. Also, Imouto tried to eat some food early, allowing Kyon to notice that someone had eaten with a fork, which provided Kyon with some more evidence that it was all an act.

As for the shadow, that wasn't mentioned in the novel. In fact, there was a major difference in the way the anime and the novels did Lone Island Syndrome: that would be: in the novels, Kyon confronts Koizumi about what happened, hears the supposed "truth", and then guesses that it was all an act because he doesn't believe it. Kyon and Haruhi didn't fall down the cliff after going outside, so Kyon and Haruhi didn't get to discuss what had happened amongst themselves: essentially, in the novels, Haruhi's role is reduced.

So why did Haruhi and Kyon fall down the cliff? Well, that would be because Haruhi saw a shadow, right? So the shadow only exists in the anime.

The other difference between the novel and the anime would be the presence of imouto-chan (well, actually, there's quite a few more, but those don't affect the mystery part). Imouto played a part in tricking Arakawa away from the door so that Kyon could force Tamaru-san to confess, which never happened in the novel. Also, Imouto tried to eat some food early, allowing Kyon to notice that someone had eaten with a fork, which provided Kyon with some more evidence that it was all an act.

Thanks <Sol Falling>

I'm grateful to you, I will reread vol3 again. Oh!!!! remember in vol 9 that Koizumi was very tired because more "Close circle" have appeared. But the SHINJIN are not doing anything, thats because it happends after when Haruhi met Sasaki.
I Originally thought that the SHINJINs were "gods-people" only created to destroy whatever it's surrounds in the close circle reality. But this kinda does not applies to Haruhi because the SHINJINs are just idling. If they are idling, instead the Organization destroying the SHINJINs, what don't them keep a watch on them, after all the SHINJINs are not a threat at the moment.

Right now volume's release was delayed for unknown reasons (to us anyways) and I'm not sure if it will be the last arc (I myself hope it isn't!) I have a theory for the reason for Sasaki powers and her general re introduction into Kyon's life.

I believe that Sasaki represents all the insecurities of Haruhi. What if somehow subconsciously Haruhi is aware of her powers, but only to the extent that she occasionally create things. Now what if because of her insecurities she reintroduced a person who Kyon has already known before in this case Sasaki and give her powers in somewhat parallel to her own. This gives Kyon the option to leave Haruhi with the knowledge that the world wouldn’t destroy itself perhaps of Sasaki’s intervention. Haruhi might want to know, without all the obligations of just keeping the world around as it is, does Kyon really love her? Is he just staying with her to keep the world in the balance or is there actual feelings? She had subconsciously removed the factor of omnipotence in their relationship (somewhat) and thus left Kyon with two chances a “normal” calm and “stable” girl; Sasaki and Haruhi, wonder who he would pick.

If this is going to be the last novel then hopefully by the last book should he choose Haruhi (we all know he will!) it would confirm to Haruhi that his reason for staying with her is not related anything she can do but rather what she means to him.

actually, the Haruhi novels have moved over from project.baka-tsuki.net to www.baka-tsuki.net. The site isn't down.

Anyway, I don't believe the next novel will be the last in the series because it seems fairly certain that it will be a plot-heavy, single story piece. Tanigawa has left many hints about various activities the SOS Brigade has done or will do, such as White Day, Hanami (first time), and other small things. Right now, we've got a cliffhanger where the SOS Brigade is threatened, so to resolve that the next novel should return them to stability. However, stability as we think of it is a terrible way to end the series:

Stability would refer to the SOS Brigade remaining together and having fun doing non-world changing things. This is a bad way to end the series for two reasons: if they're still having fun, then of course we readers would like to hear about those fun things, right? The other issue is realism.

Kyon has mentioned this a couple times in the books. What is Haruhi planning to do after High School? Mikuru will graduate after this year. Furthermore, it is unrealistic and, in terms of character development, regressive for the SOS Brigade to continue into University. Haruhi's character development has been all about learning to enjoy normal life again (as pointed out in Volume 8, Haruhi is returning to her pre-middle-school cheerful personality). It has also been about opening up to others, so she can't just keep depending on her SOS Brigade as a crutch for social interactions indefinately. Indeed, although Haruhi's relationship with Kyon has continued to grow, the submissiveness Yuki, Mikuru, and Koizumi demonstrate stagnates any development on that end at all. I don't think Haruhi can really consider Yuki/Mikuru/Koizumi friends until they leave and start doing things on their own.

What I'm saying is, the story can't end in a satisfying matter until the SOS Brigade breaks up of it's own will. Although Haruhi's mentality has indeed been growing in a direction where she will not need the SOS Brigade to have fun anymore, there is still no good reason for her to give it up. My guess is that the trigger would be the end of second year, with the graduation of Mikuru. Haruhi will acknowledge the necessity of Mikuru's departure, will declare that the SOS Brigade cannot continue without her, and proceed to focus on getting into a university with Kyon while still occasionally having outings with all her friends. Life will go on.

It's hard to imagine a lifetime. I've barely started, myself. I question the longevity of Haruhi and Kyon's relationship (after all, she is still just a girl, and he just a boy), and I wonder whether or not Haruhi would allow herself to be bound by post-secondary education at all. Haruhi is still a remarkable person even without her powers, so I want to see what she can accomplish, in this world, along with the rest of us. I doubt this is within the scope of the author though.

actually, the Haruhi novels have moved over from project.baka-tsuki.net to www.baka-tsuki.net. The site isn't down.

Anyway, I don't believe the next novel will be the last in the series because it seems fairly certain that it will be a plot-heavy, single story piece. Tanigawa has left many hints about various activities the SOS Brigade has done or will do, such as White Day, Hanami (first time), and other small things. Right now, we've got a cliffhanger where the SOS Brigade is threatened, so to resolve that the next novel should return them to stability. However, stability as we think of it is a terrible way to end the series:

Stability would refer to the SOS Brigade remaining together and having fun doing non-world changing things. This is a bad way to end the series for two reasons: if they're still having fun, then of course we readers would like to hear about those fun things, right? The other issue is realism.

Kyon has mentioned this a couple times in the books. What is Haruhi planning to do after High School? Mikuru will graduate after this year. Furthermore, it is unrealistic and, in terms of character development, regressive for the SOS Brigade to continue into University. Haruhi's character development has been all about learning to enjoy normal life again (as pointed out in Volume 8, Haruhi is returning to her pre-middle-school cheerful personality). It has also been about opening up to others, so she can't just keep depending on her SOS Brigade as a crutch for social interactions indefinately. Indeed, although Haruhi's relationship with Kyon has continued to grow, the submissiveness Yuki, Mikuru, and Koizumi demonstrate stagnates any development on that end at all. I don't think Haruhi can really consider Yuki/Mikuru/Koizumi friends until they leave and start doing things on their own.

What I'm saying is, the story can't end in a satisfying matter until the SOS Brigade breaks up of it's own will. Although Haruhi's mentality has indeed been growing in a direction where she will not need the SOS Brigade to have fun anymore, there is still no good reason for her to give it up. My guess is that the trigger would be the end of second year, with the graduation of Mikuru. Haruhi will acknowledge the necessity of Mikuru's departure, will declare that the SOS Brigade cannot continue without her, and proceed to focus on getting into a university with Kyon while still occasionally having outings with all her friends. Life will go on.

It's hard to imagine a lifetime. I've barely started, myself. I question the longevity of Haruhi and Kyon's relationship (after all, she is still just a girl, and he just a boy), and I wonder whether or not Haruhi would allow herself to be bound by post-secondary education at all. Haruhi is still a remarkable person even without her powers, so I want to see what she can accomplish, in this world, along with the rest of us. I doubt this is within the scope of the author though.

I believe you are absolutely right, there are many more to go with the SOS Brigade, as for them to continue after high school is a true part.
Even if Haruhi and Kyon are in another university, I feel that she would continue her relationship with Kyon no matter what, after all she choose him for some reason or reasons.

As far for the rest of the SOS Brigade members, they are as part of Haruhi universe so by saying that, they are not going anywhere either.
New adventures and new experiences will be different from Senior School, as because they will be older and more wiser then before, but new theories, realities, and danger will be following them, no matter what.

As far as its concern, I read in many Japanese fan forums, it's the SOS Brigade members must still fight and protect both Kyon and Haruhi. As the years past, the situations changes and the dangers increases. More and more opposites will be waiting and striking at the time when both Haruhi and Kyon needs each other trust and commitment to over comes any adversities. Many agree thought its better to keep Haruhi as a "quite/sleeping" God, that way the universe will not change as she fit to believed. While others (those are hardcore Kyonist sites in Japanese) believes that as she matures as a person, her powers will be reveal by Kyon himself to her, his love and understanding of person as a person and a woman, will keep her at bay. And any issues that arise towards Kyon and the SOS Brigade, Haruhi has all the power to stop at nothing to protect them, specially if it's deals with Kyon. Even though her powers has been reveal to her, it all centralized to Kyon, even though he spoke the truth to her of her nature, it like him sparking that into her, therefore has was the one that started, and he is the one in essence give her that power.

So as far as the series goes, yes definitely it will continue, the question is... after Senior School, will Haruhi be the "sleeping" God, or the "essence of all being". Either way, she will not let Kyon go and the SOS Brigade.

I dunno. As fun as the SOS Brigade is, and as much as I respect the ideas which led Haruhi to creating it, it is in all honesty a very shortsighted, self-centered, non-productive club. I can forgive, even accept, 15-17 year olds acting in the manner Haruhi does. However, that kind of behaviour and attitude is unbecoming of an adult. I would be embarassed for any kind of adult who went traipsing around looking for aliens because "it's more fun if they exist".

Growing up, changing perspectives...it's a natural thing, you know? Particularly at the age Haruhi is at right now. Somebody described the Haruhi series as a "coming of age story". This strikes me as true. The central conflict of the story is both of the characters learning to grasp that the world is so much bigger than just what they see, just what is around them.

The SOS Brigade was created at the very beginning of the story. The first chapter, even. So I believe that the story will end with its dissolution.

Many fun times have been had for the readers, and we can pretty confidently say the same for Kyon and Haruhi. However, it's much harder to say that for Yuki, Mikuru, and Koizumi. Yuki may have developed some emotions, but in the end she's still very much removed from the perspective of humans. Half (at least) of the SOS Brigade's activities involve exploiting Mikuru, so I can't imagine she considers these circumstances ideal, either. Koizumi is even more of a doormat, and he can never relax as every second he spends with the SOS Brigade is spent monitering Haruhi's emotional state. And as I mentioned in my previous post, none of them have any relationship to speak of with Haruhi. Anybody who would call their relationships with her "friendship" don't know what friends are. The SOS Brigade's existence is solely an existence of pandering to Haruhi's real world whims, and pandering to Kyon's desire to be a fictional character.

I can appreciate the SOS Brigade because it was the social context Haruhi needed (and still needs, but on an ever diminishing scale) to interact with Kyon. However, the SOS Brigade is very limiting in terms of providing Haruhi with the skills needed to interact with people other than Kyon. That's why it needs to go. Haruhi can't go her whole life taking advantage of Yuki, Mikuru, and Koizumi, depending only on Kyon, and disrespecting everybody else. Even if she has the power to change the whole world, the world's opinion is what can hurt her. Haruhi has some faith that regardless of the way she treats other people, she is in the end still a good, likeable, person. To keep cushioning her in the SOS Brigade would turn her into a person who ultimately isn't.

So there. I'm just tracing the way Tanigawa's novels are progressing when I say that the SOS Brigade and what he'll tell of Haruhi's story with it are going to end at the very latest by the time they get out of High School. All the rest of the shit up there is why this is a good thing.

I believe some have already reached english (up to volume 3 I believe, not sure!).

I too believe that the SOS brigade wouldn't be able to last forever, no matter how much Haruhi can hope for it to last, eventually it won't. She can loop the time period again and again, but in the end it's just evading the problem. In reality I too believe that without something else than the SOS brigade Haruhi would simply be unable to interact with anyone short of the SOS Brigade. If she does become completely reliant to Kyon for attention and comfort like you said Sol, that would cause a lot of problems for both of them. If she took Kyon as an example or even a standard for how people should treat her that would very bad in some situations (not everyone will do as you say Haruhi!). But I'm worried of Kyon too, though he is level-headed and quite smart, he might find that he would rather throw away the burden of existence because he find that perhaps the world might not be worth it after all (If somehow Haruhi causes a big disaster; I mean serious stuff) and might believe and expect that if he throws that burden away, he would be remade and placed into another reality, perhaps living without Haruhi. To me that's a possibility though extremely slim (But would make for a good fanfic... Hehe idea bulb went boing!) In reality the SOS Brigade might have been destined for failure.

However Sol I believe that everyone in the SOS Brigade does have somewhat of a friendship with Haruhi, and if not her, Kyon at least. And that if they're obligations as friends are not to make Haurih happy, it may simply be so that they don't leave Kyon alone and left with a huge mess to deal with.

Rumor has there is something being told about the Light Novels will or might be mention in Vol4 of the Suzumiya Haruhi DVD of season 1.
BUT!!!
I'm not sure if its true or not, it's just a speculation at this moment, if anyone knows about, I'm sure its going to be mention.
If you go to http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/in...uzumiya_Haruhi

Rumor has there is something being told about the Light Novels will or might be mention in Vol4 of the Suzumiya Haruhi DVD of season 1.
BUT!!!
I'm not sure if its true or not, it's just a speculation at this moment, if anyone knows about, I'm sure its going to be mention.
If you go to http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/in...uzumiya_Haruhi

It has all vol1 to vol9 translated in English.

I guess you already know that

Thank you
Domo arigato

I don't think that's going to happen since the Lucky Star license announcement was the special mention in vol. 4.