The context was clear that he was referring to the reaction to the crime, not the crime itself.

GAT_00:As bad as it still is for women who are victims of rape, it is actually worse if a man gets raped by a woman. The almost universal reaction is of disbelief.

Both genders have it bad, but only one is eligible for support after the fact.

When a female rape victim is threatened when trying to press charges, it makes national news. When a male rape victim is threatened when trying to press charges, the reaction is "why would you want to ruin the life of that sweet innocent girl" (actual quote from a "support" hotline after the police refused to help).

stonicus:But rape is about power, not sex. So even if you cut their junk off, they still gonna rape you with a cucumber, ya know, for the powerz

I'm not an advocate of castration.I'm an advocate of the death (and swiftly) penalty.There is not a shortage of very bad people on this planet.And, thanks to Ohio, there is no shortage of assholes, either.

ADHD Librarian:Your 'facts' are manifestly untrue. The conviction rate where the victim is male is higher than when the victim is female.

The conviction rate only measures those who make it into court. But when the police make threats against the victim for daring to go against the status quo, the case never makes into court in the first place.

CeroX:ADHD Librarian: What is the exact opposite of this? If a sober woman forces herself on a drunk man the law says that is ok?

I'm not saying this is true for all areas... but as stated above: By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape

That's the law for some areas, not my opinion... if it's forced or coerced it's rape... Not exactly being overly emotional here, so i don't understand the sudden hate... I agree with you, so if i worded something badly feel free to correct it...

Nice attempt at 'reasonable'The thing you are 'wording badly' is a constant implication that if a sexual assault by a woman is not rape it is not prosecuted. You are playing with semantics and in doing so you are being fundamentally disingenuous in your arguments. Perhaps in some (even many?) jurisdictions a rape must include penetration, but that doesn't mean that a sexual assault without penetration results in a nice police officer saying "you are in the clear, go back home, nothing to see here." But your wording certainly had a tone of "oh the poor men, society is so hard on them" in it.

ADHD Librarian:Perhaps in some (even many?) jurisdictions a rape must include penetration, but that doesn't mean that a sexual assault without penetration results in a nice police officer saying "you are in the clear, go back home, nothing to see here."

Really? Tell that to the three officers who literally laughed in my face when I tried to press charges.

the ha ha guy:ADHD Librarian: Your 'facts' are manifestly untrue. The conviction rate where the victim is male is higher than when the victim is female.

The conviction rate only measures those who make it into court. But when the police make threats against the victim for daring to go against the status quo, the case never makes into court in the first place.

So, where are you getting your statistics from?How many men make no complaints because they are scared off by the police and is that a greater percentage than the percentage of women who face the same "no one will believe you" "court will be so hard" "are you sure you want to go through with it" routine?

Oh and for the love of spaghetti monster, what does this have to do with the girl in TFA? Is she not entitled to her day in court until you feel that enough men have had their say? Are the girls who are tweeting threats only doing so because of the injustice of the unreported male victims of assault?A society which has the wherewithal to stand up against rape is one in which rape will occur less (or so I hope) and this has to be the hope of all victims, regardless of their gender, right?So, if the 'voiceless men of the world' are your concern, express your concern by shouting down any people, any laws and any Farkers who are apologists for rapist. When a woman has her day in court don't moan that a man didn't but say loudly "good, I'm glad that rapist got his comeuppance" and see if you can help create a society where no one would stand around and watch something like this happen. It shouldn't take too much work, because most people seem to be able to hold a party and have a drink without raping anyone and it can't be much of a stretch to go from not raping anyone to being willing to stop any rapes you see.

/still remember my embarrassment as a young boy when my father leapt out of the car to stop a rape, only to discover it was perfectly consensual roadside sex.//consensual, if not legal. But my father wasn't the morality police so we left them to it.///my point was I come from a background of non-rape even though my father was not a sensitive modern guy

nickerj1:Can anyone clarify what exactly happened during "the act"? All the news reports I've read throw the word "rape" around like candy at a parade, and then don't actually talk about what legally constituted the rape. The NYT summary indicates one of the boys played with her titties and stuck his finger in her hooha. Did one of them actually use their penis and penetrate her butthole or hooha?

And I'm going to pose a question, or discussion instigation, which will completely piss off a bunch of people and probably have me labeled a rape apologist or some other BS. But here's the moral conundrum I'm posing, based on what I know about the actual act, and some assumptions to make it more arguable:

Apparently the girl was completely unconscious and unaware of what was going on and she didn't have any recollection of the act.Assume the guy(s) penetrated her with his dong in her butthole/hooha, but not excessively or forcibly, perhaps gently, in such a way that resulted in no physical damage to the girl.This results in a situation where, after the act, the girl is completely emotionally/mentally and physically unaffected and unharmed by the act. If you didn't tell her it happened, she'd have no clue it ever happened. Her future life would be unaffected by the act. We're talking just the act here and the effect of the act, not the effect of the social media blowup and trial, etc.In such a situation (given the above assumptions) is the act morally wrong? Has the girl been wronged? Should the guy(s) be penalized? How significantly?

Is the above situation any morally different than: drawing a penis on your passed out friend's forehead? shaving your friend's head hair off while they're passed out drunk? clipping your friend's toenails while they're passed out drunk?

If you ignore moral preconceptions, is it any different than the above scenarios?

It's pretty hard to "consent" or "say no" or do much of anything blameworthy when you're farking unconscious.

So, have you heard that one of these fine student-athletes offered three dollars to any of his teammates who would piss on the girl while she was vomiting in the street? And that more than a few got their three dollars?

Not that you would "defend" such people, heaven forbid.

Just to be clearRape = badBus girl in India who was gang raped = 0 at faultFootball players = farktards at all timesFootball players who are drunk = posable sexual assault 90% of the timeGirl that goes to party with drunk football players is asking for something bad to happen and she got it

ADHD Librarian:Is she not entitled to her day in court until you feel that enough men have had their say?

My argument is against the social, legal, and political standards that allow the police to deny rape in the first place. When the police refuse to press charges against a man, it's bad. When they refuse to press charges against a woman, it's equally bad. But in the eyes of most of society, one of these is completely acceptable, even celebrated to an extent.

ExperianScaresCthulhu:Peekachicka: I really "adore" how many people say things like "don't drink stoopid" or "why did her parents let her go out" when horrible situations like this come up. As if they never snuck out of their bedroom window, lied that they were going to a movie with a friend only to meet someone else, or had their first experience with (insert type of alcohol that they're never touching again here). When someone else is in a terrible situation all of a sudden they become saints.

Except that just like not everyone started having sex at the age of 12, not everyone became a blackout drunk by 14. Like in that recent story of the kids who died in the car crash, who were accused of stealing the car they drowned in (except for the kid who was pinned under it in the pond after the car hit the barrier) -- not everyone experiments with grand theft by the age of 15.

For her, if she doesn't want this to happen again, the advice is indeed: DONT DRINK. She needs to deal with her alcoholism, and whatever is driving her to engage in enough well known sexual escapades to be considered one of the school's doorknobs.

You're right, not everyone started having sex at the age of 12, blacking out at 14, or stealing cars at 15. Not everyone starts raping unconscious girls at 16 either. Instead of trying to defend your idea that she deserved what came to her and she deserves even more punishment why not try saying this a couple times, out loud:

"For the boys, if they don't want this to happen again, the advice is indeed: DONT RAPE! They need to deal with their alcoholism, and whatever made them believe that they could do such things to a girl just because they had the opportunity to."

Just because people put themselves in certain situations doesnt mean they should be taken advantage of. No one should be shot just because they wear the color blue, no one should be kidnapped because they were walking home from school alone, and no one should be raped just because they had too much to drink.

the ha ha guy:ADHD Librarian: Perhaps in some (even many?) jurisdictions a rape must include penetration, but that doesn't mean that a sexual assault without penetration results in a nice police officer saying "you are in the clear, go back home, nothing to see here."

Really? Tell that to the three officers who literally laughed in my face when I tried to press charges.

First of all, shiatty thing to happen and for that you have my condolences.But that doesn't give you licence to ignore the facts or to shiat all over a thread about a serious sexual assault with spurious claims that women are usually listened to and men are usually ignored.No, you were ignored (and, it would seem shouldn't have been) and the girl from Steubenville was listened to (and it would seem she should have been). But as so many people have pointed out, plenty of women are ignored (given the gender ratio of victims, probably more women are ignored than men) doesn't make it right but isn't the take home message 'listen when someone says they were raped' rather than making it somehow about gender?

ADHD Librarian:So, if the 'voiceless men of the world' are your concern, express your concern by shouting down any people, any laws and any Farkers who are apologists for rapist. When a woman has her day in court don't moan that a man didn't but say loudly "good, I'm glad that rapist got his comeuppance" and see if you can help create a society where no one would stand around and watch something like this happen. It shouldn't take too much work, because most people seem to be able to hold a party and have a drink without raping anyone and it can't be much of a stretch to go from not raping anyone to being willing to stop any rapes you see.

Much easier said than done...

On a different note... It's just anecdotal, but I've yet to meet a woman in my life who says she hasn't been a victim of sexual assault at some point in her life. Not one.

The appropriate punishment for that inbred, dickweed town would be for the other high schools in their league to refuse to play any sports against them. Sure, the Stuebenville school would win by default, but it would be an empty, meaningless win. It would deny them their only reason for existence.

Peekachicka:Just because people put themselves in certain situations doesnt mean they should be taken advantage of. No one should be shot just because they wear the color blue, no one should be kidnapped because they were walking home from school alone, and no one should be raped just because they had too much to drink.

And no one should be sold a house with an adjustable mortgage that will balloon out of control just because they don't understand complex finance law. The line we draw on where our obligation to protect our fellow man vs. enact our own interests is so arbitrary.

How soon before lying to a girl invalidates her giving of consent and turns the act into rape? Meet a girl, hit it off, several dates later, she gives consent because she thinks you're a fine catch and she wants to pursue a relationship with you. After the deed, she finds out your married. Did you violate her ability to give consent? How are lies different from alcohol when it comes to that person's ability to process consent?

ADHD Librarian:But as so many people have pointed out, plenty of women are ignored (given the gender ratio of victims, probably more women are ignored than men) doesn't make it right but isn't the take home message 'listen when someone says they were raped' rather than making it somehow about gender?

It wouldn't be about gender at all if people would stop making it a farking joke. But across nearly all facets of society, including female rape victims, female-on-male rape is practically celebrated. So without acknowledging the gender discrepancy, how is that ever going to change?

quickdraw:LovingTeacher: I just listened to a call in news show (on NPR of all places) where a man called in and said he "hoped he wouldn't have done something like that if the opportnity presented itself when he was younger but, well, boys will be boys". I'm sorry but from 18-22 I lived in a crazy party house where someone was as wasted as that girl at least once or twice a week and nothing like that ever happened nor would it have been allowed to happen. Too many people are excusing the behavior and blaming the victim. I just don't see how you can be so lacking in empathy that you not only let something like this happen but make the victim the butt of jokes. I know it is not something new and has happened probably for as long as humans have gathered in tribes but I just don't get it.

I like you. Welcome to TF.

Thank you very much. I am also a little concerned by the people on this thread who are equating ANY screwing with the passed out person (drawing on them with markers, posing them suggestively with the cat) with rape (looking at you ExperianScaresCthulhu ) sexual assault is just not OK on any person no matter what.

Teenagers do stupid things and when they are around other teens, the level of stupid cannot be measured. I have seen my own teen do things as part of a group that he knows full well are wrong (just like his parents did at his age). The BIG difference is he knows he did something dumb and is sorry.

These sociopaths didn't just humilate and rape another teen, they posted it - and the pics/videos were still there the next day. No remorse. No guilt. I don't care how drunk they were.... some things you just know are wrong no matter how drunk you are.

OgreMagi:The appropriate punishment for that inbred, dickweed town would be for the other high schools in their league to refuse to play any sports against them. Sure, the Stuebenville school would win by default, but it would be an empty, meaningless win. It would deny them their only reason for existence.

If only the other towns around would. Except you have to remember. It's Ohio.It's full of Football first assholes.

stonicus:ADHD Librarian: So, if the 'voiceless men of the world' are your concern, express your concern by shouting down any people, any laws and any Farkers who are apologists for rapist. When a woman has her day in court don't moan that a man didn't but say loudly "good, I'm glad that rapist got his comeuppance" and see if you can help create a society where no one would stand around and watch something like this happen. It shouldn't take too much work, because most people seem to be able to hold a party and have a drink without raping anyone and it can't be much of a stretch to go from not raping anyone to being willing to stop any rapes you see.

Much easier said than done...

On a different note... It's just anecdotal, but I've yet to meet a woman in my life who says she hasn't been a victim of sexual assault at some point in her life. Not one.

Bullshiat. You are surrounding yourself with attention whores. Regret does not equal rape. Also, more men are raped in the US per year then women. Know your facts.

GregoryD:You want to blame something? How about now every kid at the age of 10 sees every kind of rape, murder, suicide, dead body, beheading, sexual act on the internet? By 12 they've seen every kind of depravity known to man and suddenly you are surprised that they are desensitized to fingerbanging a drunk girl?

Ahh yes. Nothing like defending football by trying to incite a moral panic. Good jorb.

stoli n coke:FunkOut: puffy999: Athletics trumps all when it comes to young society.

The ability to understand advanced mathematics or chemistry is nothing compared to running, jumping, catching,rolling over, and fetching.

You might want to understand a little more biology, there, Professor. Athletic ability is an indicator of strengh, which is attractive in the hunter/gatherer sense. Just like the root of attraction to large breasts and nice hips is indicative of a woman who can have and take care of children more easily.

It's been part of our DNA since the caveman days. Back then, the guys who whined about not getting chicks because they understood advanced math usually froze to death.

I have a magnificent brain and an amazing bust-waist-hip ratio. I am ready to start a fertility cult.

stonicus:ADHD Librarian: So, if the 'voiceless men of the world' are your concern, express your concern by shouting down any people, any laws and any Farkers who are apologists for rapist. When a woman has her day in court don't moan that a man didn't but say loudly "good, I'm glad that rapist got his comeuppance" and see if you can help create a society where no one would stand around and watch something like this happen. It shouldn't take too much work, because most people seem to be able to hold a party and have a drink without raping anyone and it can't be much of a stretch to go from not raping anyone to being willing to stop any rapes you see.

Much easier said than done...

What's much easier said than done? Having a drink at a party and not raping someone? What in the world are you saying?

On a different note... It's just anecdotal, but I've yet to meet a woman in my life who says she hasn't been a victim of sexual assault at some point in her life. Not one.

I'm pretty sure you're thinking "anecdotal" means "something I made up in a half-ass attempt to give credibility to my already miserably weak position". Or perhaps you really intend us to believe that you have in fact obtained confirmation from single woman you have ever met in your life that she has been a victim of sexual assault.

Here's what's sad: I'm not even surprised by this. The only really unique thing about this (in terms of terrible things that get tons of publicity) is that the brain donors wrote this shiat down (essentially) rather than trying to hide their identities. But I'm fairly certain that rape victims have always been threatened (either explicitly or implicitly) since the very first rape in human history.

Because people are assholes.

The victim in Steubenville is fortunate in that there was photographic evidence of the dummies who assaulted her. When there's a picture of two football players carrying your limp body around, that's a little too much for even our justice system to ignore.

I'm honestly surprised anybody was even charged. I assumed the DA would pass on pressing charges and call it a day.

ExperianScaresCthulhu:Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what? If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision. If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision. At that point it is rape.

That first part isn't true. All she has to do is claim that she felt forced or afraid and that's why she said yes and spread her legs and suddenly the whole basketball team is marked as rapists.

The dudes were big dummies because you're supposed to record sexual acts to prove that someone was willing, if they try to accuse you after the fact: The Tupac rule. And then i remember some of these kids weren't even conceived when Tupac was murdered. But you record sexual acts to cover your ass. If you can't cover your ass, don't do it.

As for the school doorknob, well, hopefully this is a wakeup call for her. What's the betting odds on whether she continues to engage in risky sexual behavior versus cleans her act up?

I know I haven't been around here for a long time, but this is one of the scariest posts I've seen on here yet.

What happened to make you hate women so much? Sounds like someone really did a number on you. That's sad.

"You record sexual acts to cover your ass." Not familiar with this, but then again, I and most people around me don't typically have to worry about getting accused of rape, which it sounds like might be a problem for you. Do the people you record usually know about it, or is that just another crime you're willing to commit just to make sure that no one accuses you of rape? Which you seem unusually worried about?

Over the years in college and work Ive had several beautiful coworkers passed out in my bed or around me. Not once did I think to rape them EVER! The worst was the one time a coworker and I were both drugged and I managed to get us to my place. Now my biggest worry is my hotmess of a roomate that gets blacked out drunk and hangs around idiots like this. I know she was raped when she was younger and when we have gone out Ive had to step in a few times when "boys were being boys". It is sickening at times.

CeroX:ADHD Librarian: What is the exact opposite of this? If a sober woman forces herself on a drunk man the law says that is ok?

I'm not saying this is true for all areas... but as stated above: By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape

That's the law for some areas, not my opinion... if it's forced or coerced it's rape... Not exactly being overly emotional here, so i don't understand the sudden hate... I agree with you, so if i worded something badly feel free to correct it...

And as I stated above, that was not the legal definition of the criminal offence of rape, it was the definition used in compiling crime statistics. And it was changed in 2012. Depending on the definition of rape in the criminal code of the jurisdiction in question, a sober woman having intercourse with a drunk man could be charged with rape, and even if the jurisdiction's definition of rape excludes that possibility, she could be charged with sexual assault (which, depending on the degree, is not necessarily a less serious crime.)

I think that a person can do shiatty things as a teen and still have the capability to morph into a passable human being as an adult. I grew up in a small non football centric hometown. My sex life became that of local gossip after I lost my virginity. One guy and I held the status of "school doorknob" due to circumstances (while incredibly farked up) out of my control. Shiat home life and I partied a lot. Enough to know that you had to pass out before me or I might get raped. It didn't matter who you were, friend or not, you still knew everyone thought I was a whore, including the police. Hell, I was raped by a friend and honestly, it is not something I hold against him to this day (as a matter of fact, it was presented in a court of law as evidence of my inability to control myself). It's just part and parcel to the incredibly farked up mindset we grew up in. I don't have to be a victim, I am an example of the shiat society spews. I wish him well to this day and know that in his mind it came from a place nobody would really understand. I made it out alive and I have goodness in my life. At that time though, I trained myself to out drink anyone, to a point where my ability to hold my liquor was something other women trotted me out to do as a party trick in my 20's. My drinking targeted me as the one who'd go down, but due to training at a young age, I never lost - I took the target off every other woman's back - a real or imagined target, I do not know.

Having said all that, it is true I did stupid and regretful things as a teen. I am appreciative that given a new environment and new friends, new support, I could become the person I am today. Do these guys have this chance? They really may not have realized just how wrong this was. It is disgusting, but it is true. What incentive do they have to change themselves, to be a semi-decent person as the person who raped me did? He did, too. I've kept track. He may not be admirable, but he's not a monster. They have literally been tried in the court of public opinion. They do not deserve a chance to change who they are to this girl. They do not deserve the chance to change who they are to those close to her. Do they not deserve the chance to change who they are to the world, given that they see the world as a place where something like this can happen - regardless of whether or not it is true? The world is so small when we're 16.

I believe, wholeheartedly, that raping a drunk person is by and large is forbidden in our general society. I believe this because of the number of times I went to bed in the middle of a party. The number of times I needed sleep because I had to work in the morning. All of those times, I woke up covered by a blanket with no penises on my face. These are times that taught me the world is not full of evil people I have to bite before they strike first.

What would be the point in anyone in this story changing? They are already labelled as rapists or rape apologists. I think that bothers me about this case. I think what is more important is the community they grew up in goes on trial. How dare they raise children that believe that a drunken, passed out person deserves to be sexually assaulted? How dare they threaten to send those demented kids out into the world as adults? How dare they send them to our colleges? How farking dare they see this as something that happens in everyday American society?

OgreMagi:cardex: Benevolent Misanthrope:When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it. Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is. It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.

She has every right to say no up to the point it's over, not 2 weeks later then decide it was rape not defending the guys but in this place they are only 33% to blame the girl is 17% and her parents are 50% for not teaching her not to get shiat face drunk and farking every guy in town

Oh, look. Another moron defending the rapists. No, she is 0% responsible for getting rape. When you pass out drunk with supposed friends, you get sharpie moustache picture posted on facebook that you laugh about the next day. You don't get dragged unconscious from party to party, half naked, and sexually abused.

The blame is on the rapists, their parents for not teaching them right from wrong, and the community for creating and encouraging this kind of behavior.

She might not be 0%, might be a couple percents based on bad judgment, but she already paid for it far, far beyond any reasonable expectation of punishment for getting blackout drunk, and she's continuing to pay for it with the daily hatred and death threats from her peers. Whether you think a rape might be as bad as 100 or 1000 days in prison, plus more for the humiliation and persistent intimidation, she got far more than the night or two in jail that underage drinking is typically punished with.

The net result is that she's not only effectively blameless, they're deeply in her debt, and I hope they rot.

It helps to remove some of the emotion by analyzing a situation like this, otherwise you end up with "STOP BLAMING THE VICTIM" and "SLUT DESERVED IT" back and forth you see so often everywhere. You can assign a small portion of blame to a victim while also saying that they did not deserve anywhere near that level of consequences.

Likewise, parents deserve a small portion of the blame, but even for them the horror of having their child raped vastly outweighs any punishment they may have deserved.

superdude72:WTF is up with kids posting this shiat from their Twitter accounts. Is it *that hard* to use email? Or for something that truly needs to remain private, a note tied to a brick and thrown through a window?

Personally, I hope the people who would do this NEVER learn to threaten anyone anonymously. Like the rapists, had it not been for their own stupidity using the social media and smartphones to record what they did, they might never have been caught and punished. I would love to live in a world where an assault like this would have never taken place, but I know that's never going to happen. Sooooo....if people in this world are determined to hurt one another, I hope the ones that do, will make mistakes like this each and every time so that it will make finding them all the easier.

The hell is wrong with that place? Is there something in the water? Is there some secret government brainwashing program going on that makes everyone that live there a blithering idiot, and a disgrace to the human race? I cannot understand those two retarded failures of humanity getting any sympathy at all. I don't wish ill will on people, but I couldn't care less if they get raped while locked up. You reap what you sow. I am really hoping there is a lot of poorly worded miscommunication going around, and any sympathy is the fact they made a huge mistake that will follow them the rest of their lives. Even then it would be sympathy for their potential, but people evil enough to rape drunk girls really don't have a lot of potential to begin with. So I'm at a loss all around.

ADHD Librarian:Oh, wait, you did you giant steaming moran. But, in fact some shenanigans involving the drunken are in fact illegal and at this point in time drawing Harry Potter glasses and a lightning bolt scar on someone is in the 'legal' column while 'sexual assault' is not.

deanis:Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what? If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision. If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision. At that point it is rape.

This guy is way too interested in the underage rape victim. He is now labeled pedo guy

I hope you are not talking about me, because I am not interested in this underage rape victim. I am just saying that the rape was not somehow justified because she might have been promiscuous.

James F. Campbell:Generation_D: Sh*theel local politics and good-ol-boy bullcrap in a famously football-centric town were winning out until international lights were shone, which is where Anonymous came in.

That's a bit surprising to me, given how much Anonymous favors rape.

I think their outrage over classic small-town corruption and slack-jawed yokelism overrode their normal operating procedures.

I'm waiting for Anonymous to finish exposing the skeletons of the coach, sheriff and anyone else involved in the coverup. They posted a video demanding they all admit to their role in covering up the rape and apologizing to the girl, then started releasing hacked emails when they didn't. The sheriff, still new to this whole internet thing, tried to claim he would come after and arrest Anonymous. Naturally, Anonymous responded with a collective middle finger. It just keeps getting better.

deanis:ExperianScaresCthulhu: deanis: SundaesChild: GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

.......I just don't agree with where you're going with it. Again, they farked up.

Is there any actual proof there was anything in her system beyond enough alcohol to make a Russian pass out? Or is that just on the same level as 'possibly penetrating her anally'?

/To Young Men: Young Women are not your equals, so don't treat them the same way you'd treat other young men

This explains a lot.

Two young men have a disagreement, punches are thrown -- what happens afterwards?

A man and a woman have a disagreement, punches are thrown -- what happens afterwards?

Exactly. The advice for men not to treat women like they treat other men was given here in other threads recently, and after reading the explanation, I whole-heartedly endorse it. A man treating a woman as if she were a man is a recipe for trouble............. and the cold hard truth is that the majority of women DONT want to be treated exactly as men treat other men. They just want to be taken seriously, which is different.

That's so ful of shiat. Anonymous goes around 'raping' people by displaying their private information, then imposing themselves into their private lives via phone calls to their residences and places of employment, mail campaigns and hacking.

But it's alright, as long as dick doesn't enter pussy (or ass) right? Just like the folks here who feel that all violations are not created equal, only penetrative sex is something to get worked up over and if you've been stolen from or if your reputation has been damaged, you just need to suck it up.

Old gender roles and gender taboos die hard. If those who insist that the only true violation is penetrative sex, well.......

/As an interesting aside though (and I asked this question myself during a recent training session on counselling teenagers on matters of sexuality, but no one could (or would?) answer it clearly. Too many lawyers in the room for anyone to offer a free opinion).In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?

A rape is not a sexual encounter. If you understand it as just another form of physical assault then it's pretty straightforward. The perpetrator is solely at fault and cannot be a victim.

accept according to the LAW, minors are incapable of giving consent... so that person's point, is that LEGALLY speaking, 2 people who are 14 who have sex, are, by LAW incapable of consensual sex, therefore, WHO is the rapist by LEGAL definition?

This isn't your opinion, OR the opinion of the general populace... we ALL know that if someone forces or coerces themselves on a person who didn't consent to sex that it's rape... but there are soft issues, such as 2 people who the law says are incapable of making a consensual sexual decisions... so who's "at fault"? The law simply turns a blind eye to those situations or it criminalizes the males because males are defaulted as the aggressor where women are concerned...

So put aside YOUR opinion and look at the law as it is written

Seriously, i hope you are never on jury, you can't seem to look at the law objectively, and certainly incapable of looking at rape objectively, and more than willing to sling mud at those of us who look at rape from a legal standpoint and therefore look at the cases objectively... Just come out and admit that you are incapable of having a rational objective c ...

The man is always at fault.That also includes when the 'man' is 12 and the 'woman' is 24.

precious_crotchflake:thisone: Dafatone: GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.

Someday we'll have a thread on this subject where "cry rape" doesn't get brought up.

Someday.

I'm female, I have a friend who has been raped. My ex was accused of rape by a woman who, as we found out, had a history of "crying rape" or sexual assault whenever she was fired from a job.

farked up, entitled people do exist and instead of just getting thrown out of court she should have been thrown in jail. I've no doubt she's just gone on to do it again.

My ex just wanted the whole thing over with, he was so broken from having to go through it.

TopoGigo:It happens. Nobody knows how often it happens, but it definitely happens. While the words "cry rape" are pretty insensitive, the fact remains that it is hard to prove that any particular woman was "date raped". (God, how I hate that term.)So, WTF can we do about it? We can't assume that any accuser is automatically telling the truth. We can't assume that any accuser is automatically lying. We can't assume that any accuser is automatically exaggerating. We can't read their f*cking minds. Polygraphs are inadmissible in court, for what I can only assume are good reasons. The only thing I know to do is to tell girls to fight. At least if there are physical injuries, there is evidence. Punch, claw, scratch, kick, bite. And accept that you might get your face irreparably smashed in, or your life abruptly ended. WTF, that doesn't work, either.

Fighting might not always be the best idea. Fighting back might cause the rapist to get more enraged and apply enough force to strangle, crush or suffocate the victim.I reiterate, this rule does not apply to all cases, but I can understand that the victim might be too afraid instinctually to try to fight back, especially if there is an extreme mismatch of power. If those instincts kick in, it is probably better to not fight back.Maybe the victim might be more concerned about surviving than she or he would about not looking guilty.

The fighting back scenario also rules out rape while being in a compromising situation: drunk, asleep, high, comatose, etc. I know there are people who say "Well she shouldn't have been drinking" but other people have no right to molest the compromised person when drunk.