9x19mm can pierce hands. What's your point? Do you want to get shot in the hand from a 9mm pistol? "Whoo, I was scared for a second but now I realize it's only a 9mm bullet. Thought it might have been a .50 BMG. THAT would've hurt. I'll just put a plaster on the wound and I'm done." Good thing 9mm handguns don't kill.

It's not my mod so I shouldn't care anyway. But it creeps me out if you're trying to make a gun ranking depending on randomly picked real life values. Pistol < SMG < AR < DMR < Sniper Rifle < Anti-Material Rifle < Epic Minigun of Hazard +1? Guns usually fit various tactical uses and especially in games there should be exaggerated emphasis on choosing the right gun for the right situation blah blah. Anyway. Also, Brot is right, large calibre rifles do not penetrate battle tank armor.

If it is the prices:
What's the big fuzz, if it is a problem then I will release one with standard prices and one with modded. Big deal... *shrugs*

Let's keep it cool, and talk to each other...

Im currently working on a new version of it anyways, with more emphasis on energy transfer.(Bullet-to-target)

That being said, in the current("4552")release, the damage values for the different calibers is a mess, it's actually bizarre. It's so bizarre that I just can't play it, I HAVE to mod it, for my own sake, and im sharing it to those who want it...However Im open for discussion... But if that's the case, I beg of you to get your facts straight first, because I don't have much time arguing the obvious!

You are kidding me, right? And the hand is a bad example, torso is more relevant...
Go online and watch some wound pictures...

Do you know that wearing body armour against and actually stopping a smaller caliber then the 50 cal, like the 7.62x51mm NATO round, even then it still has the potential of killing you, the blunt trauma itself can make the heart stop.

And btw, you can dismember limbs with the 50 cal.
So there is a difference. Period.

However, Im all for gameplay/"simulation"... and I will walk a fine line here.
No offence here but, I mean, if you don't like it, don't play it. It is as easy as that.

Nice video Cell, too bad they didn't change the ballistic gel for every shot though... However, you could still see the difference in pressure being generated.

There is another thing that is somewhat bothering me.

The "1/10" translation of ranges. 1 tile = 10 meters.

Maybe it was for gameplay purposes(stealth, melee, etc) and the fact that computer power(number of objects on screen) and resolution(640x480, 800x600) was not that high when the game was made.

But if 1 tile = 10 meters, then I can run several hundred meters per turn. Also, the new NCTH system doesn't really seem to acknowledge this fact. That's why I have toned down the accuracy atm when im playing. Let's say you shoot from a distance of 10 tiles(100 meters) and you hit almost every shot with a sidearm from that distance ingame, im not sure you would do the same in RL.

So... The weapons and the spotting distance(13*2 = 26 tiles = 260 meter) speak one "language", all the ranges divided by 10, but the NCTH and everything else, moving, spotting, and the graphical presentation, (size of objects and their relation to one another), seems to speak another(1 tile = 1-2 meters).

But having sidearms firing effectively at ranges around 50 tiles(50 meters), will ruine the whole show. It's too bad we don't have tactical maps that are 320*320-512*512 tiles or something like that. But again that would probarly make melee almost obsolete. And you would only attack at night...maybe...

However I like the new-CTH system, but I have tweaked it to serve the weapons. That means lower accuracy and longer firefights. Remember 5 tiles is actually 50 meters("weapon-wise"). Which feels very strange when you play it. But that's the weapon mechanics atm. Im thinking of doing something about it, or atleast play around with it and see if I can come up with some solution, and try to blend the two "languages" together.

Something like, doubling the weapon ranges and the spotting ranges, but also increase the cover % of objects on screen. I always push this one up to about 75%. And I also make it harder to spot a person in prone position. I wonder, is the enemy AI dynamic in it's prefered range of engagement, or will it always move to a certain distance? I will play around with this and pass a judgement on the results.

Side issue though. I have alot to do with the weapons already...
Im currently making new formulas for Damage, Tumbling and Armor penetration. I've done the two first and it looks promising. Since I now know alot more about energy transfer you will see somewhat less damage difference in this version when shooting at unprotected flesh. However, nothing dramatic. We are taking 5-10% less difference(compared to the older version, not 5-10% difference in between the wepons ) or something like that. BUT. Tumbling values are more accurate this time and armor penetration will be a key factor. Therefore I will probarly tweak the armor values accordingly. But I have to make some research.

Can't really add anything. The Jackal. Absolutely. Like I'm surprised you don't even bother thinking about the entire JA2 world being a hundred percent flat when talking about increasing gun ranges. Anyway, I'll just remove this from my watched topics and leave you guys to action movies.

@LootFragg Hmmm... well... If your comin in here guns blazing, be prepared to get shot at... Have you even gone through my formulas in my calc chart? I realize everyone has his own idea about gameplay/reality... and I respect that... But this is my take on it, and you don't have to like it... there are other mods... sorry you took it that way though... :-/

@Cell When it comes to the tumbling(damage after armor) multiplier im thinking of doing that calculation outside the game, in my calc chart, otherwise the player could get confused, since the stated weapon damage is not actually the real damage.

For instance:

The Ak-107(5.45x39mm) will have a stated damage of 29, but will actually only do 21 in damage with the tumbling multiplier applied. You need armor rating of above 60 to neglect all damage from this round.

The Groza OC-14-4A-01(9x39mm) will have a stated damage of 27 but actually to 34 in damage with the tumbling multiplier applied. You need armor rating of above 40 to neglect all damage from this round.

So you can see that we have an intresting dynamic going here.

Also remember that I will probarly overhaul the armor ratings.

So to skip all the confusion where the player has to multiply the tumbling value manually to get the actual damage, im thinking of calculate that into the stated damage. But I have to review the JA2 bullet hit formulas first. It was sometime since I did some fieldwork, and I forget pretty fast.

Well im not sure what can have gone wrong here, if Cell has saved my mod, only once in the XML editor. Then I know for a fact that something bad will have happend. Cell does'nt probarly know this, but the enemyammodrop.xml can only have 50 entries in the xml editor. I needed alot more, that's why I worked with that file outside the editor. If anyone has saved my work in the xml editor, there will have been problem.

I haven't been around here for a great while, so I haven't been able to fix bugs and so on, and for that I am sorry and I apologize. But life forced me to be elsewhere.

However now Im back, and im 70-80% done with MAM 2.0, so If you wait a little longer, I will have something testable released very very soon.

Look into the, EnemyAmmoDrops.xml, but then you have to manually add more ammotypes outside the editor.
Can anyone fix that? So we can have more then 50 entries in the xml editor, because the game can handle it.

Anyways Im sorry for that, and I don't blame Cell or anyone else for it. It's just the nature of the editor. :/

Aaah that's great! Well I have to look into it, but as I said, MAM 2.0 is glowing red hot and is soon to be released so my time is limited atm... Can be the ammo types file, the Standard Issue thingy. In the xml editor

Is it possible to use the Ammo values and with specific range.
What's the maximum damage a bullet can do on specific ranges.
Say 600 meters, but the target is 650 meters, is it possible to make calculation about that and armour?

When you throw a rock to someone close to use or someone at a distane from 20 meters.
What hurts more?

Bullets ,Ammo have a maximum range for say pentrate Armour.
So if a bullter has a range of 40 meters AP, but the target is 50 meters with Armour, how much damage does that bullet then?
Does the bullet pentrate the armour?

I will fix the tracer bug asap! I don't have any problems with the magazines loading or unloading... Can anyone else confirm this? ATM, the army only use AP and FMJ... that will change... but there shouldn't be any problems unloading ammo... hmmm.... weird...