Young actress cast for S4

According to her agency page, young actress Octavia Alexandru has been cast in Game of Thrones. There is no mention of which role and none of her CVs have been updated as of yet. So for now, we can only speculate as to who she might be playing.

And… I’m coming up empty. The only thing that came to mind was a recast Shireen, but Kerry Ingram already confirmed she would be returning for season 4. Most likely she will be playing a minor role, one that may not even be named, but that doesn’t mean we can’t speculate!

We’ve reached out to HBO to see if they can officially confirm the casting and tell us her role.

Winter Is Coming: The other possibility that crossed my mind is her playing Leaf. But I think it’s too early for that introduction just yet.

I have no clue who this could be. And I am in agreement that it is too early for Leaf (especially if my theory that Bran and co will have mostly invented material in season 4 is true).

EDIT: I am in agreement with Malmoth (below me). Fake Arya seems like a very reasonable (and likely) suggestion.

EDIT 2: Does anyone know how old this actress is? Because based on the photo she could be a little bit young, considering some of the scenes that Fake Arya will be involved in (unless some of those scenes such as Ramsay bedding her happen off-screen).

WAIF, WAIF, WAIF, WAIF, WAIF! Mostly because I really want them to not cut out Arya going to Braavos. However, Wylla Manderly is also a possibility. My first thought was Mya Stone, but it’s too early for that and she’s too young. She could be one of Varys’s little birds, she could be generic wildling child, she could be Myrcella recast (have you seen that girl lately?). Honestly though, I think she looks similar enough to the last girl who played Jeyne Poole to pass for her.
Lastly, and very unlikely, she could be one of the Sand Snakes. Look at her eyes/ears area and look at Pedro Pascal’s. I think she looks enough like him to play Dorea or Loreza. Unlikely though, because it may be too early for that.

Another reason she can’t play Jeyne Poole- she’s too young to play ‘Arya’. She looks prepubescent, while Maisie Williams is definitely showing at this point. And since Jeyne is older than Arya…

But seriously, the people saying that this actress could be Jeyne are nuts. When have D&D ever shied away from nudity (except when the actors were too young, and Jeyne’s a character than can be convincingly played by a young-looking over-18 actress.)

The only one of note would be Elia Sand though right? he was 13 or 14 I believe.

Ah, Elia could be an interesting way to bring up the bad blood between the Lannisters and Dorne. But, for Dorne’s introduction, they could have a scene of the red viper interacting positively with two young children. That’s always a good way to get the audience to like/sympathize with a character. Especially a male character, because it goes opposite the trope of the emotionally/physically distant father. Also contrasts him with Tywin and the Lannisters right from the start. The problem is that they might need to cast someone else like Ellaria or Doran for him to talk to also, which we’ve had no news of. Unless they mean to have Tyrion and Podrick travel all the way instead of riding out to meet them. That could work though. Have Tyrion see the long voyage as just another attempt by Tywin to have him killed.

I like the Pod sex jokes. It makes people realize who Pod is which will help later on and it was so funny !

If they can bring back Barristan after a brief role in season 1 and have people remember him (who didn’t do anything like, ya know, save a fan-favorite character’s life in the main battle of season 2), they should have been okay with letting Podrick just have a minor role. The sex jokes were not necessary, so saying they wouldn’t waste time on unnecessary things is not really true.

She could be anyone, really. But I lean towards someone from Dorne. She looks enough like Pedro Pascal to pass as his character’s daughter. Hearing her speak is another thing that makes me want to say she will be one of the younger Sand Snakes. If this is in fact the same girl, go to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOYwBNBDxOs and skip to about 2:08, to hear her speak (or watch the whole thing, I guess). In the same video, a judge says she is 8 years old, which is around the age of the youngest Sand Snake. So she either plays a character with an accent (kids aren’t usually so good at impressions), or she has a non speaking role. She also speaks in this video, but she is 7 in it and it’s 3 years old. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wth0jSEtnuw

This. I suspect hers is neither a role from the books or a significant one. Hopefully she doesn’t turn out to be a random whore this time though. XD

The only candidate I can possibly see from the books is maybe Mya Stone–but only if she has some important part to play in the last two books in Sansa’s storyline. Otherwise I’m pretty sure they would just cut her.

Some ideas:
-young Manderly/Mormont/daughter of Northern Lord
-a girl Arya meets on her journeys (she doesn’t seem quite right for the Waif…)
-Oberyn’s daughter
-a young girl of Yunkai/Meereen (could/would they build a character for the child who eventually gets eaten by dragons?)
-one of the girls at the Crossroads Inn (where Gendry ends up)

I think she’s too young to play Fake Arya, for multiple reasons.

The thing that makes guessing difficult is that we don’t know what new characters D&D may create. Dany will definitely need her story adjusted for TV, and Arya maybe too.

The Pod sex jokes helped add much needed humor to such a grim season. Any scene with Bronn, Tyrion and Pod together is no time waster in my opinion ;)

1) It’s not an objective truth that humor was “much needed.” Even if it was, there were other ways to get laughs than giving this character a made up characteristic that didn’t move any plots forward. However, that it didn’t move anything forward in the two (actually more) scenes spent on it IS an objective truth. So I stand by my original statement, which is that it wasn’t necessary.
2) Olenna? Relationship between Cersei and Margaery? Tywin dominating Joffrey? Hodor? There was humor already without the Pod sex joke. So I say again, the thought that they wouldn’t waste time on unnecessary things is unfounded, as this season had a few unnecessary scenes or moments. Osha’s story, the catfight between Osha and Meera, one or two too many torture scenes, extended shots of Talisa’s ass, making Talisa pregnant at all, just to name a few. These things may have added something, which I’m sure is the argument in support of them, but they were not strictly necessary. It’s not always “okay, what do we absolutely NEED, and let’s cut out all the other stuff.”

I don’t understand all the comments about them needing an 18+ year old for fake Arya. Since Arya is much younger why do they think they could get a much older actor and that would fool anyone in Westeros–everyone would know she’s too old! Also we know that the real character Arya is underage so D&D couldn’t and wouldn’t do anything sexual with her character, not even off screen. Remember how they handled Sansa’s wedding night? Sophie Turner is 17 in real life (in most industrial nations that is considered an adult) and on the show she’s supposed to be what….14….they haven’t even shown her with her clothes off. There is NO WAY they will even talk about Arya (or fake Arya) having sex. So the getting a 18+ year old for fake Arya doesn’t make sense to me.

But Jeyne’s wedding night isn’t anything like Sansa’s. Octavia is also too young to play Jeyne. Girls can only marry after their first bleed in Westeros, and Octavia is still a child, it seems, not older than 11, I think.

Well, first of all the sexual content in Fake Arya’s arc is actually important to the plot and characters. Second, they could age up the character of Jeyne Poole so she’s 16 at the time of her marriage. Third, there are plenty of over-18 actresses who still look quite young. Fourth, I think in the show Arya is thirteen or fourteen by now, so it’s not unreasonable that a young-looking 18-year-old could masquerade as a fourteen year old (hell, Maisie is 16 now and still doesn’t look too old for Arya.)

Oberyn Martell and Elia Sand could have brought a child with them to Kings Landing. One of the younger Sand Snakes. Scenes with her could be used to paint a better picture of Oberyn and his daughters, and generally how girls are regarded with higher worth in Dorne.

I don’t think she could be a sand snake, she’s not dark enough to be Dornish. My guess is Wylla; it’s the only one that I think makes sense.-Jeyne really needs to be over eighteen, if they didn’t hold back on a whole season of Theon torture then they’re not going to have Jeyne-torture stuff happen off screen.
-I think it’s too early for the Waif to show up.
-Mya has to be older than Gendry.

So they traveled back in time and cast Hermione from the Harry Potter 1 movie I see… Either The Waif or Willow from the Inn. Would match either of those characters perfectly. I don’t see it as FakeArya because… let’s be honest… Arya is notably & known to be extremely tomboyish… this girl clearly is not. Nobody is mistaking This girl as FakeArya for the RealArya

King Tommen:
I’ll go ahead and say this is the new Vicatarion Greyjoy which is about as plausible as some of the suggestions that have been mentioned so far.

Truthfully, she’s probably a child that’s standing in the background of a scene for 30 seconds, maybe has 1 line and serves no significant purpose to the story.

This is probably right. She’s too young for FakeArya, there’s no way they’d recast the AMAZINGLY ADORABLY AWESOME Kerry Ingram as Shireen (let’s calm down on the “they’re recasting ___” stuff, folks … they’ve recast all of 2 major characters so far – The Mountain, and that was forced on them, and Beric Dondarrion, and the first guy was an extra with one line. And yes, I suppose Rickard Karstark counts too. But once they’ve had a couple of significant scenes on the show, like Shireen, they tend not to re-cast.)

She could be Leaf, if they get that far, and they could.

Or she could be a background character. Either way, I file this under “it’s so nice to just get some news.”

haltwhogoesthere: If they can bring back Barristan after a brief role in season 1 and have people remember him (who didn’t do anything like, ya know, save a fan-favorite character’s life in the main battle of season 2), they should have been okay with letting Podrick just have a minor role. The sex jokes were not necessary, so saying they wouldn’t waste time on unnecessary things is not really true.

Barristan was more than brief in Season 1. He had a significant conversation with Ned about Hugh of the Vale, the scene with Robert and Jaime where they discuss their first kill, and of course his bad-ass exit from the Red Keep where he tells Joff to “melt it down with all the others.” And I like Podrick anyway, though yes, that plot was sort of silly.

My money is on fake Arya. Willow Heddle also makes sense and she fits my mental image of Waif, but I don’t think she will be introduce in season 4. And she definitely is not playing any random cupbearer or village girl or anything like that – she has quite a resume, you know.

They did not recast Myrcella. The actress who plays her still tweets about GoT regularly and seems to be thrilled to be a part of this show. I can’t think of any logical reason why they would recast her or why anyone would think they recast her. This young actress is probably just going to play some small not important role in S4.

haltwhogoesthere: WAIF, WAIF, WAIF, WAIF, WAIF! Mostly because I really want them to not cut out Arya going to Braavos. However, Wylla Manderly is also a possibility. My first thought was Mya Stone, but it’s too early for that and she’s too young. She could be one of Varys’s little birds, she could be generic wildling child, she could be Myrcella recast (have you seen that girl lately?). Honestly though, I think she looks similar enough to the last girl who played Jeyne Poole to pass for her.
Lastly, and very unlikely, she could be one of the Sand Snakes. Look at her eyes/ears area and look at Pedro Pascal’s. I think she looks enough like him to play Dorea or Loreza. Unlikely though, because it may be too early for that.

Holy crap! I just looked up the girl that played Myrcella and she appears to have grown up too much to continue playing her.
I cant see her staying on as Myrcella.

People are constantly predicting the show to move much faster than it does and to make more significant changes than it does.

The show has almost never sped UP a storyline (actually, never) and it has constantly moved parts of the story back. It’s created whole new storylines and avoided letting characters get ahead of themselves.

I suppose I could some of these accelerated characters in the very last episodes. But this writing crew has shown a tendency to slow down or create new content rather than pull something in from future books early. That creates massive issues.

They’ve also shown a tendency to hold off casting speaking roles when they can — the extra as Beric; Jaqen being hidden so the casting could wait a year; delaying the Reeds, delaying the Red Viper, etc. So tossing in Book 4/5 characters at the end of the season also seems unlikely if not impossible.

Red Helm:
My money is on fake Arya.Willow Heddle also makes sense and she fits my mental image of Waif, but I don’t think she will be introduce in season 4. And she definitely is not playing any random cupbearer or village girl or anything like that – she has quite a resume, you know.

Your spoiler suggestion is great. But they could never do that extremely disturbing sex scene with a girl this age. I was actually thinking she would be played by an 18 year old (they won’t have to actually show anything but IIRC they can’t even imply such things). Or maybe they’ll just cut that scene… It’s a good scene but I would understand.

Although it’s pretty unlikely, I’ll just throw another option out there:

Doesnt Asha/Yara bring two Glover children back from Deepwood Motte?
Seeing as they’re going to change her storyline, maybe she could play a part there?
Maybe be some Glover child/ Lyanna Mormont combination, setting things up for when Stannis arrives in the North?

Other than that Wylla Manderley or the waif (if Arya gets that far) sound the most plausible to me. Although I think the girl who gets eaten by a dragon could happen to.

I guess it c0uld make sense to recast Joffreys siblings, since they still need to look very young. Aimee Richardson is starting to look very “grown up”.

On the other hand, we have seen Aimee Richardson appearing at official GoT events, following S3, which would suggest that she is still somehow connected to the project.

Her age, like that of others, isn’t that important to the plot. She’s still a kid, and that’s all that matters. Plus, she’s well-cast as Myrcella, and her face is memorable enough; it’s not like the “blink and you’ll miss it” Beric Dondarrion, who was just sort of “guy with beard,” (and Richard Dormer ended up looking like a desiccated, ugly version of that guy anyway).

I know this is likely a joke, but we didn’t need to have her ass in our faces. My opinion of said ass is another story. If it was nice or not doesn’t change that it didn’t need to be on display for so much of that scene. The original discussion was about spending time on unnecessary things.

What everyone needs to keep in mind is that the girl is Romanian, meaning chances are slim she will speak English accent free, which pretty much cuts her out from any Westeros native role. I’d say she will probably play someone from Essos or possibly Leaf. I don’t know why it would be too early honestly, considering I think it was Cogman that speculated how season 4 might catch up with Bran’s ADWD arc.

Geez…. Don’t you think they’d hire at the very least an English actor if it was for FakeArya (why would they re-write it to be a younger rather than older imposter…. unless this little girl has a great fake accent. My bet is going to be found in Essos’s somewhere… in Dany’s storyline or the Waif like others mention.

Sure. Good point. To take your points one-by-one in terms of necessary vs. useful for what they were doing, then, I’ll go like this:

Osha’s story — Quite necessary in further establishing reasons for Osha’s reluctance to venture beyond the Wall. Helps also smooth the decision by Bran to split up from Rickon. Helps also broaden and deepen Osha’s character, and it’s not a surprise that this appears in the episode written by GRRM, given how much he likes Natalia Tena’s portrayal of this character. Gives us more insight on her life. And she rules.

The catfight between Osha and Meera — Again, also important to contrast Meera’s more cheerful nature with Osha’s hard-bitten, bitter edge. And it also helps earn the moment where it’s clear she’s moved to a sense of trust of the Reeds. Her “he means the world to me” line is heartbreaking. So yes, I say necessary.

One or two too many torture scenes — We’re all in agreement that they overdid it here.

Extended shots of Talisa’s ass — Necessary, no. It doesn’t illuminate the character of course. Then again we’re still talking 1 minute of screen time.

Making Talisa pregnant at all — Perhaps not “necessary,” but adds a dimension to the desire to wipe out the Starks. And if the Westerlings were indeed giving Jeyne that tea to prevent a pregnancy, this is a more deliberate, straightforward way of doing things (and also could not have been accomplished without the convoluted Jeyne plot that works better on page).

This young actress is probably just going to play some small not important role in S4.

I disagree with this, her talent and experience qualify her for a broader role in GoT and not some extra or minor part. I also agree that with her thick accent she is either cast in Dany’s arc, perhaps Arya’s, but since Arya will be staying put in Westeros this coming season (excludes Leaf) my Dragons are on Oberyn’s youngest Sand Snake accompanying her dangerous daddy to KL, she might play the link between his arc and Arianna’s in season 5 (if the princess is excluded this year).

Well this might not be impossible right?
I seriously doubt it is, but still…

Bran will have flashbacks eventually and it might be possible she’ll play young Lyanna in the Lyanna and Benjen (is it Benjen?) flashback.Leafdoes seems more likely in this situation, but I don’t think it’s her.

I’m assuming Arya will make her way over to Braavos next season. So, I’m guessing this girl will either be playing the Waif, or one of Arya’s fellow street urchins when she becomes the Cat of the Canals.

My money’s on the Waif. Age/legality concerns and their possible workarounds aside, Jeyne won’t have a Romanian accent. And it’s too soon for Leaf. I suppose some sort of Dornish character could still be a possibility, but I have my doubts.

Why do some think Arya won’t make it to Braavos next season or that it would be too early? She only has two chapters of material left in ASoS (which means they covered ten this past season). Dragging her around Westeros for another entire season would be a lot less interesting than what they can do with her Braavos. They can do enough with her there for slower character arcs to catch up.

Umm… wow, dude. Just… wow. You’re clearly not keen on the concept of narrative storytelling. (Or you’ve possibly never read a book, or considered the notion of “suspense” or “drama.”) But seriously, I think maybe someone needs to “make a man” out of you – because you’re obviously having problems with it yourself.

Eli Moya:
Season 4 needs some serious changes… check out my article on yahoo to see who needs to be written off in Westeros.

Why wouldn’t it rule out Dorne? There is no reason for Dorne to have a specifically “foreign” accent, as they don’t have a different language than the rest of Westeros.

Not in the books, but maybe in the show they will have the dornishmen speak with a spanish accent, to differentiate them from the rest, and romanian is also a latin Language…but as I said I don’t think they will go to Dorne anyway ;)

Furthermore if Dorne was a real place I’m sure they would speak the common tongue with an accent so thick/different that would make it foreign to the rest of Westeros

AFfC: Arya spun away, but it was only a little girl: a pale little girl in a cowled robe that seemed to engulf her, black on the right side and white on the left.
Later,The waif nodded. Arya nodded back, and in her best Braavosi said, “How many years have you?”
The waif showed ten fingers. Then ten again, and yet again. Then six. Her face remained as smooth as still water. She can’t be six-and-thirty, Arya thought. She’s a little girl.
Soooo, no, she is literally a small child who is actually 36.

I just don’t think a strong foreign accent makes so much sense. Spanish people speak English with an accent, because their first language is, well, Spanish. The Dornish don’t have any other language beside the common tongue, so I’d rather see them use another existing variation of English. I actually could very well live with them having American accents, to be honest, since most of Britain seems already to be covered by the rest of Westeros.

The show might have cast a Romanian actress partly because they will be filming in relatively nearby Croatia. I would think that the actress would be cast in a part from Dorne or Essos, agreed. Most likely Dani in Meereen.

Aimee Richardson seems to have aged just the right amount for me. She’s no longer quite a child any more, on the path toward coming into her own if maybe not ready for it right now. Very much like a pawn who might be advanced to the eighth rank and Queened.

Pau Soriano: Not in the books, but maybe in the show they will have the dornishmen speak with a spanish accent, to differentiate them from the rest,and romanian is also a latin Language…but as I said I don’t think they will go to Dorne anyway ;)

Furthermore if Dorne was a real place I’m sure they would speak the common tongue with an accent so thick/different that would make it foreign to the rest of Westeros

Alleras and Timeon are said to speak with a “Dornish drawl.” So there is such a thing as a dornish accent in-universe.

I do not think that this girl will play Fake Arya. But all this talk about Fake Arya did get me thinking.

I don’t necessarily think this is what they will do, but maybe this is a good idea for her story line: We see Arya engage in a fight with either Bolton men or Lannister men, but don’t see the outcome. It is later revealed, through dialogue, that the Boltons have Arya and she will marry Ramsay. The audience sweats it out for a couple episodes until they reveal that “Arya” is a fake and then we see that real Arya is not captured – maybe at this point she will be getting on the ship for Braavos. That path would be a little reminiscent of Bran and Rikon’s fake deaths in Season 2, but it would at least be an excuse for Arya to be absent for a few episodes, since she doesn’t have too much to do anyway.

I think it’s still too early for the Waif or Leaf both those stories are already getting too far ahead. Since she’s a dancer, she could be an entertainer at Joffrey and Margaery’s wedding. If they end up speeding the Daenerys arc, she could be a hostage from the Mereeneese noble families. However, I think it’s still too early for that. Except maybe the Iron Islands, I don’t think they’ll do a whole lot of AFFC/ADWD material.
I don’t see them casting somebody younger than Maisie Williams to play fake Arya. It doesn’t need to be somebody 18+. They shouldn’t show anything explicit on their wedding night, it should be implied. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but I’ve read that in the UK child porn laws still apply if it’s supposed to represent somebody underaged. An ad featuring a sexualized image of Dakota Fanning was once banned because even though she was 18, she looked very young.

There is no way she is a Sand Snake (don’t meet them until the fourth novel), none of them go to Kings Landing, and even so, like 90% of the Sand Snakes are not white. Fake Arya makes no sense seeing as Ramsey doesn’t wed her until the fifth novel, after Stannis goes to the wall and heads down to take Winterfell. Possibly Mrycella except we don’t see her until the fourth novel again, and fourth season might finish off with the first part of the fourth book but it is doubtful. It is more likely she is just a random cast and isn’t significant.

I just don’t think a strong foreign accent makes so much sense. Spanish people speak English with an accent, because their first language is, well, Spanish. The Dornish don’t have any other language beside the common tongue, so I’d rather see them use another existing variation of English. I actually could very well live with them having American accents, to be honest, since most of Britain seems already to be covered by the rest of Westeros.

But many latinos in the USA speak english with an spanish accent and don’t even speak spanish anymore, and the same for the italo-americans ;)

If she is from a forign country why it always implies she must have an accent? I’m Romanian also, and my English accent is flawless. When I visisted London not so long ago, people were surprised to hear I was foreign, since my accent gave nothing away.

I think, after watching that clip with the girl dancing, that she was raised in England, since the editor of the clip (also Romanian), mentions Kingston Upon Thames. She is a Romanian raised in England. Actually she might even be born there.

A minor role is my guess. There are plenty of possible scenes for the appearance of a young girl.

I think that it is too early for Leaf or Wylla or the Waif. I also think its too early for FakeArya and, personally, I wouldn’t mind if that storyline was eliminated. I don’t see a need for a Sand Snake in S4, particularly not a young one.

Summer Is Coming: If she is from a forign country why it always implies she must have an accent? I’m Romanian also, and my English accent is flawless. When I visisted London not so long ago, people were surprised to hear I was foreign, since my accent gave nothing away.

Not saying that it’s impossible, but I’ve met a lot of people from all around the world, who partly spoke excellent English, but barely ever have I met someone who was able to hide their accent, unless they were drilled and exposed to English intensly from a very young age. On the other hand I know quite a lot of people who considered their English accent flawless, even though it wasn’t (like me)

I think, after watching that clip with the girl dancing, that she was raised in England, since the editor of the clip (also Romanian), mentions Kingston Upon Thames. She is a Romanian raised in England. Actually she might even be born there.

Yeah, if she was born in England or moved there very early that’s a different matter. I just assumed she was raised in Romania by her short CV on imdb.

I have to go with The girl at The Inn at the Crossroads. Or Fake Arya. Anything else is too far away chronologically to fit into season 4. While I have no doubt we’ll see stuff from books 4 & 5, I don’t see why people are rushing so much of those plot-lines forward. There’s still MOST of the action from book 3 that still has to happen.

As for Fake Arya – if they have her at all this coming season, it will only be the beginning of her journey, leaving KL, and heading north. They don’t need an 18+ actress, because they don’t need to SHOW what happens to her on screen, just the aftermath, which doesn’t need to happen until at least season 5, if not 6, and she might be old enough by then anyway. She also looks a little like Maisie.

They also need to stretch out Arya’s storyline as much as possible to keep the rapidly aging Maisie in front of the audience so we don’t notice it too much. There’s no way they can not have her in an upcoming season. I don’t see her leaving for Braavos until the end of season 4 or the beginning of season 5. I also see them inventing a lot for her, because she’s an audience favorite, and there’s just so little Arya in books 4 & 5.

There’s no way she’s a Sand Snake. She’s too young to play any of the three important ones, which are the only ones they need to cast.

My thoughts on a few points made in the comments.
1. Dornish are not all dark. Salty, Sandy, Stoney. Id love to see them bring one of the snakes. Id love to see it be Ellia Sand just aged slightly down.
2. Fake Arya. I believe they will wait to cast her for a few more seasons and she will be aged up.
3. Waif. Deffinatley a possibility but i dont think there going to speed the story up yet. they will add things to the story.
4. Beth. I hope this could be it cuz it would add to theon and that would be thrilling.
5. Children of the Forest. this would be cool to see and deffinatly possible. if they speed up any story it would be brans.
6. Slavers bay. This seems most logical that she would be a made up character that dany adds to her retinue.
7. All the people that mentioned her accent have it right. She Needs to be possibley dornish, but i always imaged dornish still sounding english, COF could work most likely bravosi or slavers bay.
8. Myrcella. Im fine with them keeping the actress i think she has the lanister look and it doesnt bother me that she looks older.

If she is from a forign country why it always implies she must have an accent? I’m Romanian also, and my English accent is flawless. When I visisted London not so long ago, people were surprised to hear I was foreign, since my accent gave nothing away.

Oh, I forgot Ramsay’s wedding night, which sure was a terrible, painfull scene and no civilized country would ever show that on tv with a young girl like Octavia Alexandru, but then again they don’t have to portray it exactly like in the book. Showing Ramsay as willing to deflower a 12-year old seems even more disturbing. Also, to people concerned about the girl’s accent, her resume states she speaks with British English accent, if I understand correctly.

Definitely too white to be a Sand Snake, and it might be a little too early for Wylla Manderly. As for Jeyne, I think that it’s a little too early for Theon’s storyline to go that far yet. I think that Theon will have about as many scenes this season as Jaime in Season 2, with him just showing up once or twice in the first half of the season and then becoming prominent later. I don’t think his Reek storyline in ADWD will begin until episode 7 or 8, and even then I think it will just be him taking Moat Cailin.

Too light or too dark us no longer valid as a reason to say someone won’t be a character. It would have been invalid as early as before season two, if am image if the duck sauce actor had been released. I doubt anyone would have said BAM, definitely xaro!

I agree that part of the story is important. BUT if you age up Jeyne to 16 when everyone knows Arya’s is about 11 how could they pretend that anyone in Westeros is fooled!? If you can find a 16 year old that looks 11, there’s something drastically wrong with them. Good luck with that. Regardless of whether I’m right on that point, I stand by my statement that they won’t do anything sexual in regards Arya or Fake Arya because of show Arya’s age (regardless of how old the actress playing them actually is). That’s the “third rail” for HBO–portraying a child in a sexual situation. And they won’t touch it–nor should they. It’s beyond the bounds of what American audiences will accept. The farthest they will go is probably to mention or show the wedding. Beyond that, they might have some characters indicate their disgust (correct me if I am wrong, even in Westeros, some of them show disgust for the match–see how Tyrion reacted to Sansa’s age?) but very generically. They only need to imply.

Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,Yes, but that doesn’t mean Fake Arya will be cut. I hope they keep it with a 18+ actress. The actress that played Roslin looked almost like a child and she could’ve been great as Fake Arya. Just find another actress like Roslin’s and we’re good.

No, in the show Arya would be 13-14 at the time of her ‘Wedding’, and Jeyne Poole would be 16. And I’m not suggesting they show any actual sex- just do what the book did and fade to black at her wedding night, with the rest implied.

Those ACTUALLY thinking she’s Jeyne Poole: do you lack a basic sense of logic? Like no I’m seriously shocked. This little child looks barely 11 years old. You have read the books right? I rest my case.

dizzy,she appears as a little girl because of her knowledge of potions/poisons. She doesnt physically age so this girl is perfect.. It is also telling that a character name wasnt mentioned… Maybe just hearing the name is a giveaway in itself so that info is being held back.

Jessa:
Those ACTUALLY thinking she’s Jeyne Poole: do you lack a basic sense of logic? Like no I’m seriously shocked. This little child looks barely 11 years old. You have read the books right? I rest my case.

Have YOU read the books? In a visual medium, you need to have the two characters actually look somewhat alike (meaning similar in age, and Arya was around hey age at the beginning of the series), or it starts push the limits of suspension of disbelief. Think she is Jeyne, but don’t act as if people saying it’s her are morons.

They can’t legally show an underaged girl having sex on-screen due to UK obscenity laws in broadcasting, much less Ramsay forcing an underaged girl to have sex with a dog for his own cruel amusement.

I do hope they *mention* this happened…”hope”? Well, it emphasizes in the books just how utterly crazy and monstrous Ramsay actually is – similar to how Joffrey stripping and beating Sansa *in public* showed how crazy he was. Having two adult prostitutes beat each other in private doesn’t really make up for that level of crazy that didn’t come across as much in the TV series, though I sympathize that the TV producers have to work around such obscenity laws.

Like, we might not SEE what Ramsay does to her, just as we might not SEE what Ramsay did to Lady Hornwood….or how Lord Manderley *reports* to Davos how Ramsay strips the women from Winterfell naked then hunts them for sport, flays them, and wears their skin as capes…but someone needs to *report* this is happening, otherwise it’s almost as if they’re whitewashing how much of a monster he is.

she’s probably playing nobody. haha remember all the speculations for Myranda, and everyone was convinced of Stephanie Blacker playing Val. that sure got me excited. only at the end they ended up playing two random whores that has nothing significant to do with the story.
so she’ll probably play some child that isn’t important at all.
not waif, not leaf, not mormont/manderly and definately not fake Arya.

dio westeros: zy,she appears as a little girl because of her knowledge of potions/poisons. She doesnt physically age so this girl is perfect.. It is also telling that a character name wasnt mentioned… Maybe just hearing the name is a giveaway in itself so that info is being held back.

Penny? Seriously?Could people please stop suggesting that casting a child in place of an actual young adult with dwarfism could possibly be appropriate in this day & age? That’s really offensive. Maybe you can take that ignorance up with Peter Dinklage, hmmm? Did they cast a kid as Tyrion? Good grief.

actually, despite completely agreeing with your arguments, i do think they’re going to advance quite rapidly towards books 4 & 5 in season 4, because the first part of book 4 is pretty uneventful save for a few things, so i’m suspecting if they don’t drag the remaining part of book 3 that they have to show, they’ll be done with the first part of book 4 pretty soon, and of course, most of book 5 is concurrent with book 4 so…

I think folks were suggesting that Penny doesn’t have to be a dwarf, just a talented performer at the PW. Are you actually suggesting that you want to see two dwarves riding pigs at the PW? That’s even more outrageous and lewd! […even if the books are filled with that sort of thing!] :-)

After reading all the arguments in the comments, I’m going to have to agree that she’ll probably just end up playing ‘nameless dancing extra’. Her youth and accent make Jeyne Poole unlikely, and I don’t think the Waif is an important enough role to be cast. That arc could survive well enough with just the Kindly Man.

Side note: The people suggesting that Arya won’t get to Braavos this season are being pretty unrealistic, since she has all of two chapters left in the books

Doubt she’ll be fake Arya. Tyrion marrying Sansa is creepy, but at least there was no bedding. Ramsay on the other hand… No way D&D are insane enough to do anything remotely close to the Theon bedding scene… unless I suppose he rescues her at that point. I dont know.. That whole storyline is dark and full of terrors.

I agree. There hasn’t been any indication , thus far of a rush to get Ramsey Snow to
the altar, especially since Brienne only just arrived at KL. There’s more of an indication
to resume events in King’s Landing, and at Castle Black. Less we forget Mance
altogether, he needs to pace up again with Tormund Giantsbane. Also, there
needs to be brief visit to the Eyrie. Ah….. this speculating is hard work, I don’t know
how you guys do it. *>*

I considered for a moment, of a small child relative at the Dorne Water Gardens,
but that would accelerate the story to include Doran, so that’s ruled out.

However which direction the producers take, accelerating Arya’s journey and expecting
no more than brief introductions of Dorne and Braavos is more likely. Arya may make
an ally at the Temple or along the warf, but I would not count on that either. The
minor role could blend in anywhere . From S3 onward, many pivotal moments will take
place , therefore the production will be paced accordingly. No need to rush with 5
seasons left.

Liz B.:Penny? Seriously?Could people please stop suggesting that casting a child in place of an actual young adult with dwarfism could possibly be appropriate in this day & age? That’s really offensive. Maybe you can take that ignorance up with Peter Dinklage, hmmm? Did they cast a kid as Tyrion? Good grief.

Well, she could be wearing a mask and armor and then be recast when actual acting is necessary at season 5 or 6 and she’d need to show her face… Finding an actual lady stunt dwarf may be significantly harder than finding a child that can fill the role… But no, I don’t think she’s Penny.

I’ve said this before on here a couple times, but it mostly got overlooked.

I think that Ramsay’s “whores” will play a bigger role. I have a feeling like the brunette will be fake Arya and the blonde will try to help Theon escape only for him to get caught. She will die by Ramsay/Ramsay’s dogs, and the audience will be led to believe that Theon is dead. (a la his last chapter in aCoK) I’m thinking this will happen three-fourth’s the way through season 4, only for Theon to return as full-blown Reek halfway through season 5.

I’ll throw this out just to be different : Mance Rayder’s daughter. Yes she’s supposed to be a baby, but they only do the baby swap if Sam is going to go off on his own arc. I don’t think they are going to do that, because Sam cannot be off on his own in Oldtown. I don’t think we’ll ever even see Oldtown. Maybe he’ll get sent to King’s Landing instead, but they could just keep him at the wall. So she doesn’t have to be a baby, and Mance is a bit older than what I expected anyway so it makes more sense to have an older child anyway. She looks like she could be his kid.

I’m hoping it’s Leaf. Bran (and Dany for that matter) can get into their ADWD storylines this season, even if the others are still doing ASoS and parts of AFFC, as their storylines are relatively separate. Main thing for Dany is that everyone shows up for the battle at the right time, but bringing her stuff forward means that could happen at the end of S5. Bran could end S4 with some tree visions.

dont think fake arya as they will need an over 18 actress for that role (unless they leaves some sexual things out or to the imagination, something that GoT doesnt do at all) though it could be, seeing as some countries require the on screen character to be over 18 too, which might seem a bit ridiculous, so they could just have decided they’d take no nudity over that.
best suggestion i heard so far would be leaf, perhaps making a small appearance in episode 10, i reckon they should end brans storyline when they reach the cave but just before he méets bloodraven for season 4, so this would fit in.
Most likely its just a new part, though i’m unsure whether d&d would deliberately create a new part which is a child, as the difficulty casting would make it a risky decision

If Bran’s only useful thing in season 4 is walking through the snow and fighting some wights, the non-readers will like lose their minds. So I wouldn’t discount Leaf as appearing in season 4 just yet. Even if it’s not this girl. Most are extremely uninterested in him, from what I see.

Jim Cross:
I don’t remember their names, but what about the girls that Arya sells oysters and mussels with in Braavos? Myabe it’s too soon for that too

That is a possibility. I don’t think Arya will be in Braavos until season 5, but she will probably get on the boat in the season finale. They can easily condense the family she whose boat she gets on and the family she sell oysters for.

My best guess is still that she’s just a dancer and/or singer at Joffrey’s wedding.

I was trying to think about a dancing role too but what you say makes sense. Not an actress with dancing skills, just a dancer. That makes sense, because she’s only 10 in real life, too young for an actress really.

Published by Elias Moya
20 plus years of professional experience in government and law enforcement. I have been an instructor, teacher and mentor. I am a proud father of two beautiful daughters.

The thought that you’d respond to calls regarding women having been victims of violent crimes – And training and mentioning future generations of police officers on how to respond to situations like that – That thought is rather disturbing.

The thought that you’d respond to calls regarding women having been victims of violent crimes – And training and mentioning future generations of police officers on how to respond to situations like that –That thought is rather disturbing.

So I read what you wrote here about Moya’s vocation being disturbing in light of something he published, and was going to respond that this seemed remotely like an ad hominem. Then I read what he said about Sansa in the article… and I have to say, I completely agree with you about how disturbing it is.

As far as recasting kid actors goes, the only two actors who have a chance to be recast are Tommen, because he needs to be too young to consummate his marriage, and Rickon, just to cut costs on the actor (and that’s a worst case scenario).

I was just thinking about how bummed out fans will be when Maisie Williams gets recast as Arya after she becomes a Faceless Man (if judging by the Jaqen face-change is any indication — imagine that, x1000). But, granted, I doubt that will happen for a while. And, I have to wonder if D&D will try to find a way around it. Perhaps they’ll put back on her Maisie Williams face after she does her first hit? Could be.

Even if an actress over the age of 18 is cast as FakeArya, it’s doubtful they can show any nudity or on-screen sex scenes because it’s clear the character is suppose to be a minor. So there’s no reason to cast an older actress. I don’t think she looks all that much like Maisie, but that may not matter. And having an actress who is only 12-13 would make it all the more disturbing of a storyline..

Varamyr Fourskins:
I was just thinking about how bummed out fans will be when Maisie Williams gets recast as Arya after she becomes a Faceless Man (if judging by the Jaqen face-change is any indication — imagine that, x1000). But, granted, I doubt that will happen for a while. And, I have to wonder if D&D will try to find a way around it. Perhaps they’ll put back on her Maisie Williams face after she does her first hit? Could be.

It’ll never happen. Ever. She’d wear make-up for her first face, and then they’ll change her back or keep her modestly altered (which is what I thought had happened in the book anyway). There’s no way they “re-cast” Maisie Williams. There have been a lot of odd suppositions about recasting someone on these threads, but this is the most extreme.

Arristan The Old:
My money’s on the Waif.Age/legality concerns and their possible workarounds aside, Jeyne won’t have a Romanian accent.And it’s too soon for Leaf.I supposesome sort of Dornish character could still be a possibility, but I have my doubts.

I don’t know if you’ve been replied to but in some countries it’s illegal to show nudity of characters who are under 18 (not necessarily actors) so if D&D were to ever pass on a nude scene it would be the one in question.

What countries have this law? America and the UK/Ireland don’t so it doesn’t really apply to GoT. They can get an actress who looks 15 or 16 but is 18 or older and film these scenes legally if they wanted to.

So what would they need a 10 year old dancer for?Leaf doesn’t need to dance…So probably not Leaf.

Random performer at Joff’s wedding?

That’s already been proposed some 200 posts ago by Nezzer :P

If they wanted a young looking actress they would pick a 14 year old that looks younger than his age and knows how to act and not a 10 year old dancer that probably can’t act as well as she dances, so that’s the theory I’m going for too…but credit where credit is due and in this case is for Nezzer :)

But then when you go to film it you run into people going crazy about child pornography and there’s actual laws about how you can’t depict a 13 year old having sex even if you have an 18 year old acting the part — it’s illegal in the United Kingdom. So we ended up with a 22 year old portraying an 18 year old, instead of an 18 year old portraying a 13 year old. If we decided to lose the sex we could have kept the original ages.

So, there you have it. They will probably drop the sex scenes in the fake Arya storyline… making it possible for a child actress to play that role. Just a reminder: TV!Sansa is 14.. which makes TV!Arya 12 years old at most.

sunspear:
As far as recasting kid actors goes, the only two actors who have a chance to be recast are Tommen, because he needs to be too young to consummate his marriage, and Rickon, just to cut costs on the actor (and that’s a worst case scenario).

Concerning Rickon’s role:
I guess speculations about 1-2 seasons’ absence then a recast are moot now that Art Parkinson has tweeted about learning his lines for season 4 and heading to Belfast…

So, there you have it. They will probably drop the sex scenes in the fake Arya storyline… making it possible for a child actress to play that role. Just a reminder: TV!Sansa is 14.. which makes TV!Arya 12 years old at most.

Unless they make it clear that Fake Arya is older than arya let’s say 15-16. Martin mentions 13 so the threshold could be even 14. Or he just made it all up :P

So, there you have it. They will probably drop the sex scenes in the fake Arya storyline… making it possible for a child actress to play that role. Just a reminder: TV!Sansa is 14.. which makes TV!Arya 12 years old at most.

This makes me sick. Government messing with stuff they don’t have a right to. It’s repulsive. Who are they to make the decission for the actress… These retarded laws didnt exist in the 90s thats for sure. (and they still dont in Holland, there is plenty of examples of underaged actresses doing nudity)

But not even allowing an 18 year old to do nudity when she is playing a 15-16 year old. That’s just insane… I highly doubt this truly exists the way it does.

(how hypocrit can you get… The baby Dany and Drogo had in 2×10 was clearly topless and we saw a baby’s penis for crying out loud with Gilly but a 16 year old like Sophie or Fake Arya cant get naked?! Somehow i think Sophie Turner is much more capable of making a concsious decission as to whether she wants to be naked or not than a baby!…)

Rant over… (they could easily get around this BTW by simply casting an 18 year old who looks a bit like Arya and adding a line ‘but this wench is 18 people will see through it’ or something. Then you’d have an 18 year old playing an 18 year old playing a 14 year old…. that should be fine?!)

No i highly doubt it’s fake Arya too. If only because i think that plot will likely be introduced in season 5 and they will cast someone older (no matter if there is nudity or not) than this girl. I like the thought of the girl in the inn at the crossroads. Seems like a nice small speaking role for 1 or 2 episodes. (they could even bring her back when Brienne has her travels later)

Red Hound:
Who are we exactly protecting with all these laws about nudity? The UK can not show a 25 years woman portraying a 15 years old naked…why?

Absolutely no one. It’s conservatives having their way and progressive people not doing anything about it cause they don’t care enough. These people try to forbid everything just because they can… Like i said it’s repulsive.
WHY doesnt Sophie Turner get to make the decission as to wether she wants to be naked or not (i am not even talking about onscreen sex)!? You are telling me something as natural as the human body is suddenly cursed when the owner is 15-16?! It’s Sophie’s and it should be her choice and hers alone…. That’s how it should be in a free society… (wether she’d actually do the nudity in the infamous s2 throneroom scene i don’t know but at least SHE should have the choice…
Of course D&D likely still wouldnt do it because of backlash from conservative news groups / people… Yuck!
The human body is completely natural and not something to be ashamed of / hide

Because we have laws in the United States, and this is American-produced program.

And yes, the human body is a natural, normal thing. But Sophie Turner is a teenage girl and she should not be pressured into displaying her body by adults in order to serve the needs of grown men for their entertainment. Demanding to see her nudity at all is bordering on inappropriate.

This is awful casting she looks like no characters in the book. Her ethnicity is all wrong for that particular person she is playing. She is younger than i imagined that character to be and her hair is just wrong.

Because we have laws in the United States, and this is American-produced program.

And yes, the human body is a natural, normal thing. But Sophie Turner is a teenage girl and she should not be pressured into displaying her body by adults in order to serve the needs of grown men for their entertainment. Demanding to see her nudity at all is bordering on inappropriate.

I never used the word DEMAND in any way. It should be her choice. For all we know she really wants / wanted to do the nude scene (i doubt it btw).

It’s not like 18+ actresses are ever forced to do nudity either… How is it right to see a penis of a BABY (!) and not Sophie naked?! Somehow i don’t think the baby had any say in the matter… Sophie on the other hand… At the present time they simply can’t show anything. What conservatives came up with this?! It’s like they are saying ‘all 17 year olds are idiots and completely incapable of making a conscious decission with regards to nudity… Seriously?! For real??

No one forces anyone to get naked but Government does FORCE people not to be able to do their job the proper way. That’s just discrimination really… Younger actors/actresses can’t audition for parts that involve nudity for example (high school / university) even if they are completely cool with it.

So they say they are protecting the actors / actresses but they are actually simply protecting their conservative followers / groups… Like i said Yuck. No one is forcing anyone for anything.

We’re discussing several young females. That’s why I said girls. No more reason than that.

“Imagine that” = sarcasm because I think that the reasoning for the laws is quite obvious. People just don’t like the rules.

Save yourself the sarcasm then, because as I said, I feel that anything is worth discussing, no matter the source. The reasoning is not so obvious, because if it was obvious, it’d be the same in at least all the western world, but that’s not the case.

“Because the law says so” is a poor argument, as laws change and in certain countries, got a heavy political content that make the separation of powers concept weep.

Kroket,
“But not even allowing an 18 year old to do nudity when she is playing a 15-16 year old. That’s just insane… I highly doubt this truly exists the way it does.”

I know there is no law like that in America and I doubt there is one in the UK. The UK tv show Skins has had plenty of nude and sex scenes with characters who are under 18. The UK may have some law against an over 18 actor/actress portraying a child in a sexual scenes though.

The regulations exist for a very good reason- to prevent people from being victimized. If an actress as young as Turner were able to choose to be nude onscreen, what’s to prevent her family or bosses from pressuring her to do so in order to keep her job? The rules are good and necessary.

The regulations exist for a very good reason- to prevent people from being victimized. If an actress as young as Turner were able to choose to be nude onscreen, what’s to prevent her family or bosses from pressuring her to do so in order to keep her job? The rules are good and necessary.

First of all, I said adults playing minors engaging in nudity, not minors playing minors. Secondly, that’s close to duress and it’s a totally different thing. There are already enough laws to help with duress and they are certainly not related to minors (characters) appearing nude on TV being forbidden in UK.
Thirdly, rules can be good and necessary. I don’t blindly follow anything or anyone and I recommend you to do the same, especially when they seem so obvious that barely any other country is following them.

I disagree with you Ours is the Fury…
And it has nothing to do with wanting to see Sophie naked.
It’s about the story being able to be told the way it should be.

you are telling me an 18 year old all of a sudden can’t be pressured… And it would be cool?! The nudity shouldn’t be the issue but the pressuring as you say! There is plenty of examples of young actresses (over 18) more or less being forced to strip it off if they want to get a role or something. That’s a problem.
But if the actress in question is cool with it?! Then what is the problem (so there would not be any pressuring involved?!) i ask you?? I really don’t see it…

Please tell me how the baby whose penis we saw (!!) won’t be victimized say 15 years from now in High School when people find out it was him?! He sure couldn’t make a conscious decission now could he?!

Edit: Let’s take the example George himself actually gives: Dany.
They couldn’t cast an 18 year old playing a 13 year old!! (or a 16 year old playing one)
Effectively this means there is a real chance we missed out on a really talented 16-17 year old Dany who might well have been on her way to stardom now and a big career. NOBODY forces anyone to audition for a part including nudity… It should always be the actress her choice!!

A random dancer at Joff’s wedding is not a big deal, nor would I believe D&D would highlight some dancer at the PW, more likely they will stick to the midget’s. But what character’s are lithe, agile, graceful and lethal and inheriting these aspects from their parent’s. Somehow I believe this girl and her abilities will figure into the arc of a certain person, and not some random performance thrown into an event that already has a certain act (from the book) that ridicules a hated uncle that loves to slap.

I think the UK law for nudity is that the actress has to be over 18, and the character has to be over 16. That’s why Emilia Clarke could get naked in season 1 (since she’s a twentysomething playing a 17-year-old) but Sophie Turner can’t get naked (she’s a 17-year old playing a 14-year old).

A way Jeyne Poole could work while still being legal is if they age Jeyne up to be 16, and get an over-18 actress to play her.

Actually actors or actresses Sophies age are allowed to do nudity with parental consent if it is nonsexual, Thora Birch in American Beauty for example. It just isn’t done because it isn’t socially acceptable, even more so today than years ago.

Yeah, the regulations and laws get mixed up for me, beween UK and US. Sophie’s underage in the UK for anything, regardless. The scene with Tyrion was sexual, so it was definitely off the table, regardless of permission.

Ours is the Fury:A random dancer at Joff’s wedding is not a big deal, nor would I believe D&D would highlight some dancer at the PW, more likely they will stick to the midget’s. But what character’s are lithe, agile, graceful and lethal and inheriting these aspects from their parent’s. Somehow I believe this girl and her abilities will figure into the arc of a certain person, and not some random performance thrown into an event that already has a certain act (from the book) that ridicules a hated uncle that loves to slap.

ytdn,
I think the UK law for nudity is that the actress has to be over 18, and the character has to be over 16. That’s why Emilia Clarke could get naked in season 1 (since she’s a twentysomething playing a 17-year-old) but Sophie Turner can’t get naked (she’s a 17-year old playing a 14-year old).

A way Jeyne Poole could work while still being legal is if they age Jeyne up to be 16, and get an over-18 actress to play her.

Yeah, the regulations and laws get mixed up for me, beween UK and US. Sophie’s underage in the UK for anything, regardless. The scene with Tyrion was sexual, so it was definitely off the table, regardless of permission.

I really don’t… Nudity is nudity wether it’s sexualized or not for me… Besides no one has real sex in movies (except for porn obviously) so that shouldnt be a problem either. It’s not called acting for nothing!

So it would be ok to see Sophie naked in a non-sexual way (yeah i keep using her but obviously this could be any other underage actor / actress on the show) but it’s not if it’s sexualized. That certainly seems like a thin line in certain cases.

I agree that the Tyrion scene would clearly be sexualized (obviously) but how about the throneroom scene?! One could make a strong case for it NOT to be (it certainly isn’t for Joffrey i am sure… he just wants to humiliate her i guess…).
Obviously D&D wouldnt even consider shooting that scene (even if they could get away with it through the same clause we saw the baby…) like that because of the backlash…

For me the fact remains: Baby was naked (albeit in a non-sexual) way without any free will in the matter. Sophie (well hers is the only example we have for this really on the show) wasn’t. For me the the criterium is not wether its sexual or not (like i said it’s acting. It’s not real…) but if the actress wants to do it. Obviously in this particular cause (obviously they couldnt at all..) they would have had to adjust the casting procedure for that.

Regardless if without the nudity those scenes were strong, but not as strong as they could have been let’s be honest.

It will be interesting to see how they tackle fake-arya. ytdn’s ‘solution’ seems fine.

Actually actors or actresses Sophies age are allowed to do nudity with parental consent if it is nonsexual, Thora Birch in American Beauty for example. It just isn’t done because it isn’t socially acceptable, even more so today than years ago.

Like i said (with the throneroom) scene. Is it sexual or not?! That’s a thin line.
Personally i think Thora Birch flashing there is more sexual than the throneroom scene would have been… (while it would rank behind the bedroom scene)

I think people are missing the point of those scenes from the book. To me nudity had nothing to do with how disturbing they were. HBO has broached the subject before in disturbing scenes from The Wire and Carnivale but nudity was not necessary in either case. Heck even Litttlefinger and Varys have talked about it on GoT. People ‘needing’ to see it (for maximum impact or whatever) are a bit off in my opinion.

Kroket: For me the fact remains: Baby was naked (albeit in a non-sexual) way without any free will in the matter. Sophie (well hers is the only example we have for this really on the show) wasn’t. For me the the criterium is not wether its sexual or not (like i said it’s acting. It’s not real…) but if the actress wants to do it. Obviously in this particular cause (obviously they couldnt at all..) they would have had to adjust the casting procedure for that.

The issue is psychological. A baby isn’t going to be psychologically damaged by being naked on screen, but a young teenage girl very well could be. Even if Sophie said she was okay with it, the chances for psychological trauma are still present. That is why there are nudity laws. It’s not because “conservatives” find the human body repulsive, it’s there to protect children and teens from the very real threat of psychological damage.

Winter Is Coming: The issue is psychological. A baby isn’t going to be psychologically damaged by being naked on screen, but a young teenage girl very well could be. Even if Sophie said she was okay with it, the chances for psychological trauma are still present. That is why there are nudity laws. It’s not because “conservatives” find the human body repulsive, it’s there to protect children and teens from the very real threat of psychological damage.

That might be the reason but not a really good one imho…
Like i said no one is forcing anyone…
Potentially one could regret doing the nudity… yes that’s possible.
But an 18 year old could make the same ‘mistake’.
These laws certainly don’t exist in Holland and i for one have never heard an actress complain ‘i wish i hadn’t done this or that nude scene when i was 16’
Clearly views are different here.
If what JamesL said is true then there could potentially still be underaged nudity.
That doesn’t comply with your reason at all.

Somehow i think the psychological damage for the baby (15 years from now) is a much greater ‘threat’ than it would have been for Sophie. Since she is the one who would have made the choice.

But let’s just leave it there…. ;) I think the topic should be about our new Romanian addition to the cast and who she is playing (like i said probably not Fake Arya)

Well, Red Hound and Kroket, you should be happy to know that there are at least 2 GoT porn parodies currently? in production, so now you can truly see the story as it was “meant to be.” :-P (There will be zero under-aged naked people, however.)

And I’m sorry, all this arguing for under-aged FEMALE (you keep bringing up the male baby, which could be argued as showing a significant plot point as to why Gilly needed to get the heck out of Craster’s, but y’all are sure harping on Sophie) is pretty gross. Female actresses (of ALL ages) are HIGHLY pressured to get naked. You can take this show as an example of that phenomenon. Practically every female actress of age on this show has been naked; the guys, not so much. Clamoring for underage female nudity is just…I have no words. I’m already overly pissed with the unequal nudity on this show – there’s really NO good argument for *showing* the Fake Arya bedding. I don’t care if it’s kosher in Holland or whatever.

direhound,
It seems like we are done with the racial discussion (until the next Dorne post) and now stepped over to underage nudity… it just has gone from bad to worse…

Sorry! Please by all means edit admin (i cant anymore)

—
that’s why i said we should move on to the topic this should be about again > Octavia ;)
And i am not responding to Aiofe. Clearly we couldnt disagree more on the issue but that’s fine for me. I dont mind having an opinion which others don’t agree with (just as i am repulsed with the government and their ridicilous overprotectiveness of people / paternalism.) That’s the last i’ll say about it!

Or maybe that it’s you’re grossing me out in your justification for why Sophie should be allowed to get naked, and that I decided to simply ignore you rather than continue responding.
There are countless nude female bodies on this show and some of you are bugging over the fact the teenagers are restricted? Deal with it.

Or maybe that it’s you’re grossing me out in your justification for why Sophie should be allowed to get naked, and that I decided to simply ignore you rather than continue responding.
There are countless nude female bodies on this show and some of you are bugging over the fact the teenagers are restricted? Deal with it.

Red Hound never talked about Sophie…you are not only confusing US and UK laws, but Kroket with Red Hound :P

ytdn:
I think the UK law for nudity is that the actress has to be over 18, and the character has to be over 16. That’s why Emilia Clarke could get naked in season 1 (since she’s a twentysomething playing a 17-year-old) but Sophie Turner can’t get naked (she’s a 17-year old playing a 14-year old).

A way Jeyne Poole could work while still being legal is if they age Jeyne up to be 16, and get an over-18 actress to play her.

That’s not true. Regarding UK—->”At age 15, Keira Knightley’s mother agreed to let her do a topless scene in the movie “The Hole,” a British mystery.”

And also, regarding the US—>”In Julian Fellowes’ adaptation of “Romeo and Juliet,” Hailee will do a nude scene—unusual, since Hailee is only 14-years-old. Just like Hailee herself is,” said Fellowes. (…)While it is not illegal for an underage actress to appear nude in U.S., she must obtain parental consent and it is considered highly controversial.” (Daily Mail UK)

So I think more than illegal it’s just highly controversial. So yeah, maybe not that obvious :P

Semantics. He is discussing the laws about nudity, and the discussion was largely about Sophie. (And not much about the OP.)

No, he clearly stated the following:

Red Hound:
The UK can not show a 25 years woman portraying a 15 years old naked…why?

and after your first comment

Red Hound: First of all, I said adults playing minors engaging in nudity, not minors playing minors.

So, as I said, there’s two digfferent things, underage actresses, and 18+ actresses playing underage characters. Red Hound only talked about the second. You’re got caught up with your discussion with Kroket

Pretty much. I mean, we are talking about kids here, people. The fact of the matter is these laws were put into place to protect children and young teens. That should be enough justification for anyone. And I agree with Fury that there is a creepy subtext running through this discussion of certain people just wanting to see Sophie Turner naked. Looking through the post history of some of those people just makes that subtext more pronounced…

Winter Is Coming: Pretty much. I mean, we are talking about kids here, people. The fact of the matter is these laws were put into place to protect children and young teens. That should be enough justification for anyone. And I agree with Fury that there is a creepy subtext running through this discussion of certain people just wanting to see Sophie Turner naked. Looking through the post history of some of those people just makes that subtext more pronounced…

But I think the original discussion was about adult woman portraying underage characters, not about underage actresses. That’s another discussion that was introduced by Kroket, but we were talking about what Martin said first here:

From GRRM:

But then when you go to film it you run into people going crazy about child pornography and there’s actual laws about how you can’t depict a 13 year old having sex even if you have an 18 year old acting the part — it’s illegal in the United Kingdom. So we ended up with a 22 year old portraying an 18 year old, instead of an 18 year old portraying a 13 year old. If we decided to lose the sex we could have kept the original ages.

Haha, thanks, but I got that idea after watching the video darquemode posted, so he deserves more credit than me =D

Yeah well I saw the same video and was going crazy trying to remember a role that required an actress/dancer, and wasn’t till I saw your post that realized that she wasn’t an actress, just a dancer, so I think the credit goes to you ;)

tysnow: A random dancer at Joff’s wedding is not a big deal, nor would I believe D&D would highlight some dancer at the PW, more likely they will stick to the midget’s.

I’ve been wondering if they would include the jousting scene. It seems problematic to actually film, and the idea of asking Peter Dinklage to do it (as required by later books)assuming that they could even get a pig and dog trained for it would be something that I personally wouldn’t be ok with.

That said, if they don’t do it, they would be writing out a significant character from DoD and probably WoW. I’m not sure they need to include that character in the show, because other than some internal monologues on the part of Tyrion, I’m not sure what that plot diversion added. I may change my opinion after WoW, but on 3 to 4 re-readings of DoD, I still don’t get it.

Having trouble with the use of the word “creepy” here (especially in the ASoI&F context). Ms. Turner is a beautiful woman (eye of the beholder) who can turn heads and arouse folks (male and female). When those non-minor folks discover that she is only 17 and they choose to approach her in a lustful manner, then it becomes creepy and illegal. Simply fantasizing is not creepy, in my opinion.

One final thought about this interesting discussion. Romeo and Juliet is a very sexual play that is usually played very overtly and passionately (usually with some nudity)….yet Juliet is only supposed to be 13. For centuries, people haven’t cried foul when this role is played by a minor or by a non-minor.

As long as the parents (and lawyers) are involved and there is no exploitation and it serves the story, what is wrong? Would you rather have her in a Tarantino bloodfest?

Having trouble with the use of the word “creepy” here (especially in the ASoI&F context). Ms. Turner is a beautiful woman (eye of the beholder) who can turn heads and arouse folks (male and female). When those non-minor folks discover that she is only 17 and they choose to approach her in a lustful manner, then it becomes creepy and illegal. Simply fantasizing is not creepy, in my opinion.

One final thought about this interesting discussion. Romeo and Juliet is a very sexual play that is usually played very overtly and passionately (usually with some nudity)….yet Juliet is only supposed to be 13. For centuries, people haven’t cried foulwhen this role is played by a minor or by a non-minor.

As long as the parents (and lawyers) are involvedand there is no exploitation and it serves the story, what is wrong?Would you rather have her in a Tarantino bloodfest?

Much agreed. Winter, i can assure you that there is no underlying reasoning. Of course Sophie is gorgeous but that is completely irrelevant. It is simply the most relevant subject when it comes to Fake Arya being introduced and how they might handle that.

Society is a very weird thing and as Hodor’s Bastard said it’s a cultural thing before all. (in prehistory people only became like 30 so they immediately started reproducing when possible for example). There is an enormous double standard when it comes to nudity and violence. If you look at the audio commentary of the kids in S2 they werent allowed to comment on Loras and Renly making out and Natalie showing her breasts… Does anyone here seriously believe they haven’t watched that at home? For real!? Big deal those scenes?! Meanwhile they were laughing when Pycelle got his beard ripped of (= violence). That’s just fine it seems?!

Where do you draw a line?! 18? 16? 21? no one at all? What gives the government / society the right to do this for other people. For me it’s just discrimination really (just replace 16 year old with woman, gay, disabled, muslim etc.). How can one possible say that the entire group can’t make a conscious decission as to wether they want to show some skin (not that big a deal imho…) on TV! I really dont buy the psychological damage story. Really?! From showing breasts on screen? They don’t bite! (like i said earlier somewhere out there there might be girl who would have been Daenerys and on her way to world fame, didnt happen..)
you have to be 21 (!!) to drink in the US but you can drive a car at 16 (and potentially kill others). How about a double standard?! The bizarreness of this is utterly mindboggling to me… If there is one territory where you need to be responsible it’s driving a car (since you can so easily harm others.. not true for drinking, gambling and stuff like that. you can only harm yourself. I don’t want some government to paternalize people and tell them they can’t do this or that because it MIGHT potentially harm them… Learn from your mistakes. That’s how it should be. The government should simply educate children (say 11-13) about the dangers of ill used alcohol etc…
I wished we lived in a world where the government would just let people free to make their own decissions (as long as they don’t harm others). Laws for pushing /forcing people to do a nude scene or something else (not even talking about underaged people here) (= i guess you’d call this exploitation) would still be in place so nothing would change!

For many reasons, they need Penny, whether she is a dwarf or not. I am hoping for the jousting scene at the PW because it will continue to demonstrate the vileness and cruel humor within Joffrey and serve to point the finger at Tyrion in the aftermath.

Then in ADwD, perhaps they can provide Tyrion an alternate demeaning scene rather than riding a pig….but, then again, there is a pretty vile crowd in Essos that seeks entertainment. It ain’t no Disney show. Dwarves don’t have it easy after the PW.

I don’t know who she’ll play on the show. Like someone said, the way this was revealed, it’s probably likely that it’s something fairly minor. None the less, I looked at her youtube channel and some of the work there was really good. I especially enjoyed the short film called The House. She’s obviously working with some really good art directors, choreographers, etc.

Arthur:
I hope D&D don’t rush the splitting of Arya and The Hound. They make an interesting team. I look forward to their adventures.

Much agreed. Not only because of that though. Arya’s FFC DWD storyline is simply really thin. Same thing is true for Sansa and Bran too though. Will be interesting to see how they do it. On one hand you want to give them something to do. On the other hand if you rush the storyline you simply get the same problem later (unless they include stuff from WOW which doesnt seem like a good idea to me…)

This is a message for Winter is Coming and Ours Is the Fury (blog moderators/admin).

You do realize that this website is being regularly targeted by scammers who could potentially hack more victims simply by clicking on their namesake links? I’ve noticed that someone on your staff spends a lot of time deleting these posts. [You just deleted a couple scam links a few minutes ago] Maybe you should warn folks about this. No one should be clicking on those adhoc links. This is a great concern for most blog sites that don’t have login security techniques established.

Didn’t D&D show us a clip with all the new actors for season 3 last year at comic-con? The actors in that clip stated their name and the character they were cast for. Isn’t comic-con coming up this month and did HBO announce a GoT panel being present yet?

Hodor’s Bastard:
This is a message for Winter is Coming and Ours Is the Fury (blog moderators/admin).

You do realize that this website is being regularly targeted by scammers who could potentially hack more victims simply by clicking on their namesake links? I’ve noticed that someone on your staff spends a lot of time deleting these posts. [You just deleted a couple scam links a few minutes ago] Maybe you should warn folks about this.No one should be clicking on those adhoc links. This is a great concern for most blog sites that don’t have login security techniques established.

One reason more to allow commenting just for registred users.. this way we could also hope for less spoilers (they could be punished like putting them to the sword or into exile)

My money is on the girl who wants to be Arya’s friend (perhaps mashed up with the kids at the Inn) whose doll Arya “murders.” D & D will most certainly include this little gem to continue Arya’s ruthless character arc. As a dancer, it is very important that she be able to use just her face to tell a story–that would make her perfect for the little girl. And having this occur at the Inn just before she gets Needle back would be great, especially for the non-readers.

As for those suggesting Mya Stone or fArya: this girl is too young. Mya is one of Robert’s oldest bastards, fathered when he was fostered there with Ned.

Speaking of leaf, I’m retreading affc right now and then hitting up adwd. I recently read the ragnorok blog and it completely evaded me about jojens fate while reading adwd… Was he really turned into soylent green, or at least likely had been?

It definitely left me wondering where the taste of blood came from. I think it makes sense to conclude it was Jojen, but I also think it’s GRRM pulling a fast one on the reader like he’s done so many times. :)

For many reasons, they need Penny, whether she is a dwarf or not. I am hoping for the jousting scene at the PW because it will continue to demonstrate the vileness and cruel humor within Joffrey and serve to point the finger at Tyrion in the aftermath.

Then in ADwD, perhaps they can provide Tyrion an alternate demeaning scenerather than riding a pig….but, then again, there is a pretty vile crowd in Essos that seeks entertainment. It ain’t no Disney show. Dwarves don’t have it easy after the PW.

The Tyrion,Penny, and Oppo/Groat story line is pretty good and I hope we see it. Especially with the outcome of Oppo and later when we meet Penny again. Ther is more I want to say but I don’t want to spoil.

Winter Is Coming: Pretty much. I mean, we are talking about kids here, people. The fact of the matter is these laws were put into place to protect children and young teens. That should be enough justification for anyone. And I agree with Fury that there is a creepy subtext running through this discussion of certain people just wanting to see Sophie Turner naked. Looking through the post history of some of those people just makes that subtext more pronounced…

I may be in a minority among the viewers of this show, in that I’d prefer it if there were less graphic violence and also less gratuitous nudity. The word “feminist” turns my mouth upside-down, but watching this show…I sometime find myself wishing that they’d replace some of the female nudity for male nudity. Nudity in itself doesn’t bother me (I’m Swedish, ya know), but this show has me thinking in feminist vocabulary from time to time.

Now, about child actors: I have a rule – if I’ve seen them as children, I DO NOT want to see them in any kind of sex scene. Nudity doesn’t have to be sexually charged. But on HBO, nudity is there for titillation.

Wow, each time I decide for some stupid reason to read the comments there is something new to make me thing the whole fandom is fucked up. Personally, I do not think Sansa’s storyline is in any way diminished because we didn’t get to see here clothed being ripped off in the throne room. And yes, I believe that if you truly wanted to see that you are a very messed up person. And I hope that you live far far away from me. Because I woulnt want you anywhere near any children I know or don’t know. Really, I hope you are never near children, sickos!

So now to add pedophile to racists and sexist when talking about the fans.

I think it is pretty ironic… telling… & revealing that in a thread started about the casting of a very young & adorable little girl we have certain people flocking and starting chaos over the intricacies and loopholes to seeing Sophie naked. I think that just adds to the creepiness value. These are the same people who try to rationalize/envision this little girl being FakeArya and being involved in that sexual insanity with Ramsay.

Personally I feel a lot of the laws, with regard to certain ages and sexuality/nudity, are somewhat extreme…. this conversation has turned into something clearly past that. Sophie is very attractive…. but should & will not be nude on this show. This little girl will never be nude or even tied to any scenes involving any type of sex with the Bastard. Dear god people what if this poor girl was a huge fan of the show and was reading this post. Some definite signs of pedophilia/ephebophilia are running rampant. That last part wasn’t a spoiler but I just wanted to block it in case any poor innocent fans/friends/the girl herself were reading this post.

Nope:
Wow, each time I decide for some stupid reason to read the comments there is something new to make me thing the whole fandom is fucked up.Personally, I do not think Sansa’s storyline is in any way diminished because we didn’t get to see here clothed being ripped off in the throne room.And yes, I believe that if you truly wanted to see that you are a very messed up person. And I hope that you live far far away from me.Because I woulnt want you anywhere near any children I know or don’t know. Really, I hope you are never near children, sickos!

So now to add pedophile to racists and sexist when talking about the fans.

I am glad i don’t live anywhere near to you too Nope.

You are a very inconsiderate and narrow person if you equal libertarianism (which i would call this) to fricking PEDOPHILIA. Are you kidding me?! You really said that?
That’s really low. In favor of functional nudity of teens in TV-show > Sex molester of children (which is what you are saying)

@ Winter: perhaps it’s best to remove this entire discussion if it’s going down this road.

I really didnt want to respond to this again but i clearly couldn’t leave Nope’s reaction unanswered…

I hope that she is Jeyne Poole/Fake Arya. People seem to be ignoring the fact that the TV show is happy to alter storylines where required. Why can’t they have her get married to Ramsay, which is creepy enough as it is, but not be forced into the sexual debasement at all. Various reasons can be conjured up to excuse not having it. Roose could forbid him from going near the girl until she is older, because he knows how the rest of the north may react. Or maybe this portrayal of Ramsay just isn’t that kind of pervert i.e. isn’t interested in paedophilia, and marrying her was just a required task to take Winterfell legitimately. If D&D are desperate to keep in the sex slave humiliation then they could just have it happen to a different girl who is older, like a version of Kyra or one of Ramsay’s whores. Just as effective, but legal.

Just came across these comments. [sigh] Since I contributed earlier to this thread, I thought I should respond as well. While I am keenly aware of the serious problem with sexual objectification of children around the globe, I don’t believe the label that you and “Nope” asserted toward fellow commenter(s) is warrented. Yes, the conversation became inappropriate (it is obvious that there are many levels of tolerance) but there was never any indication (or intention) of “pedophile” behavior. If any of my previous comments offended anyone, I deeply apologize. If the moderators of this open blog thread agree with your assessment that some of the content posted by various folks was inappropriate for young readers, then by all means censor, censor, censor. It’s their site.

Labelling should be avoided at all costs in online posts and it tends to be misdirected. Arthur Miller wrote a play called “The Crucible” that highlights the ramifications of unwarrented labelling and hypocrisy (of 1692 Salem, MA and 1950s McCarthyism). This is an anonymous site that often blends outrageous fiction with reality and elicits fairly passionate reactions by the fans. You don’t know the person you are labelling, if they are male or female, their age, their prudence factor, or how contextually relevant they are toward the topic at hand. Sure, you can react according to your sensitivities but please minimize the use of labels.

We can probably be assured that D&D had conversations like this many times and chose what insane scenes they would show from the book and what was inappropriate even for HBO. They have chosen to tame down the Sansa scenes (almost raped, Joffrey punishments, first period, wedding/bedding…which were NOT tame in the books) and have chosen to increase the atrocity/sensuality factor with other characters (Talisa, Ros, whores, whores performing Meereenese knots, Pod?, Theon, penis in a box, Jon/Ygritte). You can bet that fake Arya has been discussed in detail by the showrunners and an HBO-acceptable scene or implication will be presented. It probably won’t be pretty, especially since it deals with Ramsey.

Regarding the lucky child they hired, she is not fake Arya, imho. Given her portfolio, I think she is well-suited as a child of the forest.

It wasn’t your comments. I just feel like this is a very ironic thread for this type of conversation to even continue. You make very respectful and educated comments on here. Others just plead for more nudity. Regardless… this thread is just a very strange place for there to be such an uproar from some. The casting of this very young shouldn’t ever have become the forum for people to start pleading for and advocating young nudity. Sansa is one thing… she looks older and is at an age where it wouldn’t be unheard of but still shouldn’t happen… but this girl and the fakeArya storyline…. just no.

I still say, on topic, Waif or Willow.. or at least hope that. She really looks the part for those roles…. especially on the first choice. But maybe she is just some dancer at the wedding… and not having the character name is because there is none vs. not wanting to spoil anything.. Either way it is a hell of an accomplishment. I can’t wait for some more definitive casting decisions, especially with what is to come with these arcs!

In all likelihood, she’ll be playing the Elder’s daughter from the village in the pines. Given where Arya & Bran are in the story right now, I’d say their material from SoS will be taken verbatim & even embellished a bit. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve expanded the role for just this reason.

EDIT: Having read the comments, I concur with the idea of flashbacks. She would be perfect for Rhaenys. But if they’re touching hat material, it has to be perfect & I worry if they’ll cut corners and not to a full flashback. just winks to satisfy viewers

I think she could be Elia. I can see it now. ‘Oh damn, we forgot to give any time to actual stories and history from the world. We’ll just have Oberyn and Ellaria bring Elia and sit her down to explain where her name comes from, as if she couldn’t possibly have known, growing up in Dorne.’

…No, but really. I hope not. Not that a Sand Snake child running around KL wouldn’t be awesome. xD

Or the Waif, could be. Or weasel, or just a Dornish child?

Anyways, she’s not Jeyne. No where near old enough. I really wish they’d used Jeyne a bit more than for that one shot in episode 1. Her and Sansa talking might have at least had some impact later when they have to show her. It’s just another subplot they could have made so much more impactful on television.

I agree, I think she woudl be excellent for Rhaenys Targaryen. She would appear as a flashback to the course of events that makes the Red Viper so bent on killing the Mountain. Given its importance and to make it much more emotional, I believe the show runners might break with tradition and make a flashback scene.

Also, maybe one of the many Sand Snakes or a prominent figure of the swimming group the Prince of Dorne likes watching over in his old days. The little dead girl Arya impersonates in Braavos. Or maybe even someone Daenarys saves. Bitches love saving cute kids.