Worked in a union box plant for a dozen years. In the union for the first year. During that time any grievance I ever had was with the union officials. Moved to management for the rest of the time. It was amazing how much self-entitlement union slugs express. Most of them would have been content to sit in the break room for their entire shift and still expect a paycheck. Tried to warn them when they brought in new upper management to 'clean up' the plant. Talk to the rank and file I said. Tell them it's imperative to work harder and raise production numbers. I quit in August. Plant closed the following January. Union president told me he didn't care if the plant closed as long as the union didn't have to make any concessions to 'them'. Said union president now works at a convenience store. Seems as miserable as he always was. Fark unions and the miserable asshats that still think they are a positive thing.

Orgasmatron138:That Guy Jeff: ifky: mbillips: What labor union covers workers at car dealerships? Is there a mechanic's union? Maybe the cleaning company is unionized?

Looks like the building in the back is being built or remodeled. I'm guessing they used a non union contractor to do the work.

What an incredible travesty, someone actually hiring whoever they want to do perform work instead of going through a specific organization, like they live in a free country or something.

(there's a reason everyone hates unions now)

Sure you have to take the bad with the good, but do you honestly think that life would be better if the unions hadn't existed?

Hadn't existed? No, they served a good role. Past tense. Currently they are a mockery of their former selves, and things like "mandatory union membership" are travesty. Just another layer of bureaucratic parasites, like a home owner's association for your job.

Bashing unions is all the rage these days - and the low-minded, shiat-tier coward mentality always goes along with the crowd - it's a way for the weak, scared, and insecure to feel strong for a few fleeting seconds.

But as much respect as I have for unions, my own father, a union rep for over 30 years, has been unable to answer one question for me: Why can't we have a union without union dues? If the only legitimate argument against unions is that some of them might just want nothing but to take your hard earned money for union dues, then why don't we show them that we can run a union without dues? After all, weren't the first unions just a collection of people that said "If you're going to treat us like pack mules and pay us the least you can get away with, then we're going to show you how essential we are to your business by striking"?

jso2897:You may note than the punks have only snot and ad hominem arguments - all these soft-assed farkers live off what unions have won for them, and then spit on them. How quickly the soft, spoiled middle class forget where they came from.

jso2897:You may note than the punks have only snot and ad hominem arguments - all these soft-assed farkers live off what unions have won for them, and then spit on them. How quickly the soft, spoiled middle class forget where they came from.

And the same people running those unions treat its membership like a pyramid scheme, and promote sloth, protect intoxicated workers, and live like Bernie Madhoff. Not to mention the corruption, racketeering, sabotage, etc. etc.

jso2897:Bashing unions is all the rage these days - and the low-minded, shiat-tier coward mentality always goes along with the crowd - it's a way for the weak, scared, and insecure to feel strong for a few fleeting seconds.

It took you a few fleeting seconds to type that, didn't it? Now do you feel strong?

Orgasmatron138:That Guy Jeff: ifky: mbillips: What labor union covers workers at car dealerships? Is there a mechanic's union? Maybe the cleaning company is unionized?

Looks like the building in the back is being built or remodeled. I'm guessing they used a non union contractor to do the work.

What an incredible travesty, someone actually hiring whoever they want to do perform work instead of going through a specific organization, like they live in a free country or something.

(there's a reason everyone hates unions now)

Sure you have to take the bad with the good, but do you honestly think that life would be better if the unions hadn't existed?

I don't think anyone is arguing that. However, there comes a point in each industry where a union can definitely wear out its welcome, and become a detriment. While not the sole cause of its problems, they certainly have added to the difficulties in American automating, and why the hell is it so impossible to get a teacher/fireman/policeman fired for blatant (sometimes repetitive) misconduct? Some unions are next to powerless. Not sure how it is in other states, but in NY, union employees working at nursing/retirement/hospice facilities really don't make a lot of money at all.

jso2897:Bashing unions is all the rage these days - and the low-minded, shiat-tier coward mentality always goes along with the crowd - it's a way for the weak, scared, and insecure to feel strong for a few fleeting seconds

MyRandomName:Labor unions are allowed in all 50 states. You should be more surprised by your own ignorance

I see the union members are all finally getting out of bed. Or is St. Patty's day some sort of union holiday? You go work the line after you get three sheets to the wind?

Unions aren't ever the problem. The problem, and this is pretty much a 100% of the time given, is people. People have ruined every single thing they've ever touched. And yet you keep reproducing like bacteria.

The labor union is mad because a small portion of the remodel (drywall) was done by non-union guys. Dealership came back and said they hired the lowest bidder for that portion of the job. Piss on the union for complaining about it. Really funny part is they hired temps to picket the place.

l3yteme:It seems like I see those "Shame On ___" signs at least once a day when I go out. Are there really that many union protests going around? Even a church had one although I have no idea why. Somehow I think the only ones coming out ahead are the sign makers.

Probably had some remodeling going on at the church. I think there's a good reason why those signs don't have any real information.

A good friend of mine worked for Chrysler for a number of years. He described union dues as a tax he paid to prevent his car from being keyed.

Kansas is a right to work state (meaning even if you work a unionized position at a unionized organization, you do not have to be a part of the union or pay union dues, but you still get the same pay, benifits, and union representation as someone who does). Keeping this in mind, unions still have a lot of pull even in this super-Republican state.

I have talked with many Tea Party-esque Republican union members about why they are so die-hard union members when their political affiliations show quite the contrary and they usually say somethign on the line of not wanting to be screwed by "the company" and point out how the non-union positions in the organizationg work more hours for what works out to less pay per hour than the union worker despite the positions themselves requiring higher skill, more education, or more responsibility. They also compare our pay and benifits to workers in other similar organizations throughout the country and show that we get paid a little less or about the same as the organiziations that have no unions, so they conclude that "the company" is corrupt and out to suck as much work for as little money as possible from us and the onty thing stopping them is the union.

While i agree they have a point concerning the non-union workers, they neglect to take into account the difference in cost-of-living between out organization and others in more desirable locations (Kansas is about as undesirable as it gets for people who haven't lived here), so money goes farther here. Also, i have seen too many people pull out the union contract during an argument on whether a discussion before work counts as overtime or to count a death in the family as "Vacation", "Sick", or "Other", and even one guy get 6 months paid time off for having sleep apnea which "got better" as soon as the union contract's stated sick allotment ran out. The next year, when it reset, he suddenly started having relapses, but they were keeping a paper trail on the guy and got him fired before he could take any major time off (still got about a month off). I have seen offences that would normally get someone thrown in federal prison get covered up by the union and considered a "temporary lapse in judgement" and get someone their job back after a couple months suspension. On the other end, i am tired of the non-union supervisors constantly thumping the union contract when harder workers complain about getting treated the same as lazy union workers and not being able to take longer than a 15 minute break regardless of what work they had been doing previously (working in 100+ degree weather vice working in an office).

I am not saying that unions are bad, they are just there to try to counteract companies taking advantage of workers. I just don't like people, union or not, who try to take advantage of the situation ruining it for everyone else. Unions would not be here if it werent for companies doing it and unions wouldn't be hated so much if it werent for union members/leaders doing it.

Caeldan:moeburn: Isn't the union dues supposed to be like condo fees? Where it builds up your warchest, and covers some basic maintenance expenses?

The union positions should be volunteer though (I assume currently there are salary amounts attached?)

Yes, that's exactly what union dues are supposed to be for, as well as a reserve fund to be paid back to the employees to sustain them and their families in the event of a strike. But there are some paid positions, and they are really worth the money (after all, how good is the average person at writing a collective bargaining agreement and negotiating labour contracts?), but I just want somebody to show the nay-sayers that it can be done without collecting union dues. It hasn't been done in nearly a hundred years. I want someone to show them that if a labour force really did think things were that bad, they could fix it themselves, without hiring a union representative firm like CEP or NABET.

IrishBlunder:jso2897: IrishBlunder: Latinwolf: Gulper Eel: I'm waiting for the union that brings the ten-foot-tall inflatable rat to its protests to be greeted by a chamber-of-commerce group with a fifty-foot-tall inflatable cat.

Isn't that like a NYC only thing or do they use similar rats elsewhere?

Philadelphia.And they also have a big-ass "fat-cat" too. Looks kinda like the top-hat Monopoly guy only with diamond rings on his paws.

Unions are, generally speaking, a good thing.Union bosses OTOH, are usually self-serving (failed) politicians and lawyers that manipulate its members into voting for whomever the biggest payoffs (not necessarily cash - civil contracts, political favors, etc.) come from. Can't much speak to organized crime and the like, but don't much see how labor unions would be any more immune to it than any other organization that handles large amounts of cash. Seeing as keeping corruption out of politics is nigh impossible, don't see how unions would be expected to maintain a higher standard.

You're right - but that isn't the point. there are bad unions, and sometimes unions suck. but not nearlty as much as this country would suck for working people without them.

Hence my axiomatic "Unions are a good thing". I'm a dues-paying member of one myself.

People get caught up in fashionable attitudes that they don't really think about the implications of. None of the assholes you see in here bashing unions would have shiat if they had never existed.

Oh, dunno about that. There has to be at least a *few* farkers of aristocratic origin.One might even say that were it not for unions, the aristocratic farkers would probably be the only ones. Making oh-so insensitive headlines like "Uppity laborers light owner of sweat shop on fire - just kidding, the police shot all the workers LOL".

Here's the thing - oftentimes, calling "shenanigans" on one union will get you a (perhaps undeserved) reputation as a "union basher" whether or not the accusation is justified. ...

Do you support the change to the Pennsylvania harassment law so unions have to follow the same rules as everybody else?

mbillips:/Only thing I hate about unions is that they don't have open membership. In states with closed shops, you have to know a guy to get a union card, and without a union card you can't get hired in a closed shop

Ah, so Unions are like Guilds: an unnecessary farce creating a drain on the economy by rent-seeking behavior to the detriment of the general consumer, shrinking the number of available jobs but making those jobs more lucrative.

There have been attempts to unionize car salesmen. I remember reading a court case that followed such an attempt. Salesmen didn't want to work Sundays. Union came in and said, vote to join us and you'll never have to work Sundays again. Before the vote the dealer gave them Sundays off. Unionization vote failed. Dealer got hit with an unfair labor practice charge for giving employees what they wanted.

mbillips:That Guy Jeff: ifky: mbillips: What labor union covers workers at car dealerships? Is there a mechanic's union? Maybe the cleaning company is unionized?

Looks like the building in the back is being built or remodeled. I'm guessing they used a non union contractor to do the work.

What an incredible travesty, someone actually hiring whoever they want to do perform work instead of going through a specific organization, like they live in a free country or something.

(there's a reason everyone hates unions now)

Scab!

/Only thing I hate about unions is that they don't have open membership. In states with closed shops, you have to know a guy to get a union card, and without a union card you can't get hired in a closed shop. Union membership should be automatic, not a prerequisite.//A lot of unions are more concerned with preserving their members' high pay than expanding. I worked in newspapers for 10 years, and never heard of a single Newspaper Guild attempt at organizing a paper that wasn't already organized.///The only way for workers to get anything close to a fair shake from jerb creators is to organize. There's just too much power on the employer's side for it to be a fair contract otherwise.

This. When I was having my house redone, I made sure to hire a non-union shop even though it was a little more expensive just as a fark-you to their closed-shop cronyism.

jso2897:IrishBlunder: Latinwolf: Gulper Eel: I'm waiting for the union that brings the ten-foot-tall inflatable rat to its protests to be greeted by a chamber-of-commerce group with a fifty-foot-tall inflatable cat.

Isn't that like a NYC only thing or do they use similar rats elsewhere?

Philadelphia.And they also have a big-ass "fat-cat" too. Looks kinda like the top-hat Monopoly guy only with diamond rings on his paws.

Unions are, generally speaking, a good thing.Union bosses OTOH, are usually self-serving (failed) politicians and lawyers that manipulate its members into voting for whomever the biggest payoffs (not necessarily cash - civil contracts, political favors, etc.) come from. Can't much speak to organized crime and the like, but don't much see how labor unions would be any more immune to it than any other organization that handles large amounts of cash. Seeing as keeping corruption out of politics is nigh impossible, don't see how unions would be expected to maintain a higher standard.

You're right - but that isn't the point. there are bad unions, and sometimes unions suck. but not nearlty as much as this country would suck for working people without them. People get caught up in fashionable attitudes that they don't really think about the implications of. None of the assholes you see in here bashing unions would have shiat if they had never existed.

The covered wagon was useful at one point in time. Doesn't mean we still need it

BGates:The labor union is mad because a small portion of the remodel (drywall) was done by non-union guys. Dealership came back and said they hired the lowest bidder for that portion of the job. Piss on the union for complaining about it. Really funny part is they hired temps to picket the place.

Were the paid picketers recieving union bebefits? Should the paid protesters form a union, and that union then protests other unions that dont give them proper benefits when they protest for them?

jso2897:You may note than the punks have only snot and ad hominem arguments - all these soft-assed farkers live off what unions have won for them, and then spit on them. How quickly the soft, spoiled middle class forget where they came from.

OscarTamerz:The UAW in Detroit unionized all of the car dealership employees and in a unique union approach to productivity mandated that no car dealer could be open on weekends. Every so often a car dealership would try and dispute that and the union would drop by and bust 20 or so windshields. If the dealer didn't take the hint then they'd Molotov cocktail the whole lot. It was kind of convenient for the dealer because any time they were going under they'd have big ad campaigns saying how they were opening on weekends, sell all the cars they could and the rest the UAW and their insurance company took care of.

Backwards. The dealerships colluded with each other to stay closed on the weekends. One reason they did this is to persuade their employees to not unionize. They basically offered it as a benefit to keep the employees happy.

From an article when the FTC filed an antitrust complaint against the Detroit dealerships in 1985:

Both McInerney and Hayes also claim that most of the pressure on dealers to remain closed on Saturdays comes from their employees, who see such closings as something of a fringe benefit. One local salesman, David Michels of Highland Park, Mich., recently wrote to the Detroit News to say that he had moved from San Diego to the Detroit area "because, as an automobile salesman, this is the only place in America where I may have a normal life and enjoy some of life's pleasures that the average working person takes for granted."

McInerney says dealers have restricted their hours in order to keep their employees from joining unions, and he complains that the FTC's action has sparked an organizing drive among local sales people by the Teamsters union, which scheduled a meeting with angry sales people last week.

akula:To which most Americans just shrug. If you're not paying premiums, copays, or deductibles then it means there's salary you aren't getting to cover all that. And since sweetheart "Cadillac" plans like that are now penalized by taxation under the ACA, they may not want to remind everybody that the fed.gov was handing out exemptions for such things as sops in return for their support.

Having to pay premiums/deductibles/copays isn't necessarily a bad thing so long as you get paid enough to cover them when they're necessary. I'm willing to bet that the union workers had to take a hit to wages to cover those plans... that's what some other unions have been so pissed about in contract negotiations. They ended up losing the plans AND the wages

Oops!

Guaranteed when the next election comes though, the very people who took money out of their pockets will win the primaries and the elections because "Congress sucks except for MY Rep"

Fark In The Duck:It seems to me that unions served a useful purpose way back in the 20th Century, when work weeks were 6 days long, work days were 12 hours long with no overtime and the working conditions were horrible (has anyone read The Jungle?). Now, it seems like they are just a self-serving entity that forces workers into their ranks and has run many a decent company into the ground. Anyone remember Eastern Airlines? That was brought down by a bunch of aircraft cleaners working for the Machinists Union.

Or a Canadian example, when we had two national airlines... Canadian Airlines was unionized and drowning, Air Canada was non-union and viable. Then the government forced a merger (for some reason or another) Air Canada ended up having to deal with the union and almost sunk itself as well.

Or any other example of union shops that closed up and moved down to Mexico because the union wouldn't negotiate compromises.

Only experiences I've had with unions directly is temp jobs in the past as a non union employee. And remember having to wait almost 3 hours until I could get the right person to bring me out some items I needed to work with... Oh and I had to work outside, couldn't be inside the plant.

Then there's a cousin of mine who was working a union security gig for a bit. Kept getting transferred to a new local before officially becoming a member. So paid dues for over a year to various locals of the same union but never got the benefits.

Oh and the teachers union in Ontario basically screwing over any would be new teachers, because subs get picked by seniority and retired teachers then get any sub work they want, while collecting pension. Meanwhile, without getting sub work you basically can't become a full teacher. So people get stuck in limbo for years and years without ever being full time because those who retire don't actually clear up spots.

There are several local, state and federal agencies publishing thousands of pages of regulations that disagree with you.

Regulations that powerful business interests and large campaign financiers have been watering down for decades. If there is no one to oppose them those regulations, through the long successful efforts to buy the laws they want, just end up serving to protect entrenched businesses against new entrants to the markets and from any effective oversight of the regulators.

See, the Elk River chemical spill, the North Carolina coal ash contamination and the 2008 capital market meltdown just to name a few recent examples of how business without another force to check their power gets the best lack of effective regulation that money can buy.

The UAW in Detroit unionized all of the car dealership employees and in a unique union approach to productivity mandated that no car dealer could be open on weekends. Every so often a car dealership would try and dispute that and the union would drop by and bust 20 or so windshields. If the dealer didn't take the hint then they'd Molotov cocktail the whole lot. It was kind of convenient for the dealer because any time they were going under they'd have big ad campaigns saying how they were opening on weekends, sell all the cars they could and the rest the UAW and their insurance company took care of.

jso2897:You may note than the punks have only snot and ad hominem arguments - all these soft-assed farkers live off what unions have won for them, and then spit on them. How quickly the soft, spoiled middle class forget where they came from.

I agree. Resorting to ad hominem right off the bat really speaks to how shiatty a person someone is.

jso2897:Bashing unions is all the rage these days - and the low-minded, shiat-tier coward mentality always goes along with the crowd - it's a way for the weak, scared, and insecure to feel strong for a few fleeting seconds.

jso2897:You may note than the punks have only snot and ad hominem arguments - all these soft-assed farkers live off what unions have won for them, and then spit on them. How quickly the soft, spoiled middle class forget where they came from.

The_Original_Roxtar:found a flyer with the union's beef spelled out on it[thisistwitchy.files.wordpress.com image 850x1100]

so yeah... they hired a non-union carpenter and the union got all pissy that they weren't getting their cut.

So, they're really pissed that it's a non union carpenter, but they can't come out and say that since it would sound bad they're protesting because somebody else has a job. So instead they say their core beef is that the non-union contractor doesn't pay 100% of the health costs of the workers.

To which most Americans just shrug. If you're not paying premiums, copays, or deductibles then it means there's salary you aren't getting to cover all that. And since sweetheart "Cadillac" plans like that are now penalized by taxation under the ACA, they may not want to remind everybody that the fed.gov was handing out exemptions for such things as sops in return for their support.

Having to pay premiums/deductibles/copays isn't necessarily a bad thing so long as you get paid enough to cover them when they're necessary. I'm willing to bet that the union workers had to take a hit to wages to cover those plans... that's what some other unions have been so pissed about in contract negotiations. They ended up losing the plans AND the wages.

jso2897:AngryDragon: jso2897: Bashing unions is all the rage these days - and the low-minded, shiat-tier coward mentality always goes along with the crowd - it's a way for the weak, scared, and insecure to feel strong for a few fleeting seconds

MyRandomName: Labor unions are allowed in all 50 states. You should be more surprised by your own ignorance

I see the union members are all finally getting out of bed. Or is St. Patty's day some sort of union holiday? You go work the line after you get three sheets to the wind?

Just curious.

Never belonged to one in my life - but I know what they did for working people, and have enough self-respect to appreciate it. Unlike the go-along-with-the-crowd loudmouths.But then, you knew that when you posted.

I have a great deal of respect for collective bargaining and the advantages it brings. I am also aware that in the last half of the 20th century there were some epic examples of corruption and misuse in union organizations all over the US which doesn't reduce their positive role..

I just figured that since you started slinging insults I would respond in kind though.

It seems to me that unions served a useful purpose way back in the 20th Century, when work weeks were 6 days long, work days were 12 hours long with no overtime and the working conditions were horrible (has anyone read The Jungle?). Now, it seems like they are just a self-serving entity that forces workers into their ranks and has run many a decent company into the ground. Anyone remember Eastern Airlines? That was brought down by a bunch of aircraft cleaners working for the Machinists Union.

IrishBlunder:Latinwolf: Gulper Eel: I'm waiting for the union that brings the ten-foot-tall inflatable rat to its protests to be greeted by a chamber-of-commerce group with a fifty-foot-tall inflatable cat.

Isn't that like a NYC only thing or do they use similar rats elsewhere?

Philadelphia.And they also have a big-ass "fat-cat" too. Looks kinda like the top-hat Monopoly guy only with diamond rings on his paws.

Unions are, generally speaking, a good thing.Union bosses OTOH, are usually self-serving (failed) politicians and lawyers that manipulate its members into voting for whomever the biggest payoffs (not necessarily cash - civil contracts, political favors, etc.) come from. Can't much speak to organized crime and the like, but don't much see how labor unions would be any more immune to it than any other organization that handles large amounts of cash. Seeing as keeping corruption out of politics is nigh impossible, don't see how unions would be expected to maintain a higher standard.

You're right - but that isn't the point. there are bad unions, and sometimes unions suck. but not nearlty as much as this country would suck for working people without them. People get caught up in fashionable attitudes that they don't really think about the implications of. None of the assholes you see in here bashing unions would have shiat if they had never existed.

AngryDragon:jso2897: Bashing unions is all the rage these days - and the low-minded, shiat-tier coward mentality always goes along with the crowd - it's a way for the weak, scared, and insecure to feel strong for a few fleeting seconds

MyRandomName: Labor unions are allowed in all 50 states. You should be more surprised by your own ignorance

I see the union members are all finally getting out of bed. Or is St. Patty's day some sort of union holiday? You go work the line after you get three sheets to the wind?

Just curious.

Never belonged to one in my life - but I know what they did for working people, and have enough self-respect to appreciate it. Unlike the go-along-with-the-crowd loudmouths.But then, you knew that when you posted.

"You can't treat the working man this way. One day we'll form a union, and get the fair and equitable treatment we deserve! Then we'll go too far, and get corrupt and shiftless...and the Japanese will eat us alive!"

Misconduc:This was ripped off from Publix, the Tomato pickers in south florida demand 1 cent raise on every tomato picked, they put a "Shame on Publix" sign in which someone put up a sign saying "For having lower prices than Winn-Dixie or Walmart!".

A cent?! Who the hell do they think they are? I hope the Job Creators had them all deported to Chad.

Saw one of those type signs/groups at a local store. Apparnetly a unionized contractor won a remodelling job for a buisness. Apparently they were outraged for being removed from the project for merely falling behind, doing poor work, then trying to charge more than the agreed price. Oh yes, the shame.