Has anyone followed this story? Out of all places I found it on Democratic Underground, I know I know a place where there are many people accused of shilling but the connections they made were pretty compelling

Marsh and McLennan was on the floors that were struck, it's a company that has bought out Kroll the company that had the security for WTC Complex. Supposedly this guy was working on this SilverStream software they used for all sorts of fraud and such

Like one excerpt goes:

"SilverStream had built internet transactional and trading platforms for Merrill Lynch, Deutsche Bank, Banker's Trust, Alex Brown, Morgan Stanley; to name a few. I was responsible for these accounts at one time or another. Coincidently, several of these companies purchased space in the World Trade Center and simultaneously completed disaster-recovery and business continuance implementations just prior to 9-11.

And hopefully, you're already somewhat familiar with the roles that these financial institutions played on 9-11, and if you include Marsh & McLennan, and another client of mine in 2001, AIG, on the list: you pretty much have the major players involved in the financial aspect of the 9-11 fraudulent trading activity."

summary from Grove: Marsh and McLellan world's largest brokerage house (in WTC1, right below Cantor Fitzgerald in WTC1, see below, and right above Buttonwood International Group, see below) and AIG (world's largest insurance financier) set up paperless transaction operation--the first and only one in the entire world--between them, with a deadline of September 11, 2001.

The Grove person writing the above, complained about suspicious overcharges (which may have been mutually agreed upon hushmoney), because both Marsh and Silverstream, his computer-internet tailored interface company he worked for then, said everything was fine even though they agreed with Grove that the accounting was all out of wack. They tell him to shut up. Plus, a lot of the other banks that he (in Silversteam) worked with to quickly complete "disaster recovery operations" right before Sept. 11, so that they were prepared, and their competitors were bankrupted, or destroyed, allowing them to consolidate more of the international brokerage business.

All the people who set up the paperless transaction operation in Marsh died in a special "in house conference call" to get them all there on 9-11--and then the WTC1 hit plane directed into their offices and killed them all. The Marsh liason for the paperless global money transactions set up a phone based teleconferece of all the dozens of programmers and I suppose Marsh people early morning in their offices--while he directed this teleconference outside the WTC from his New York Apartment. The WTC1 hit 'event' strikes the Marsh offices directly, killing all the people who knew about the paperless tranactions, called there by the Marsh guy himself for the purpose of murdering them. Marsh loses around 250 people. the dozens of programmers are killed as well. He's unclear on how he knows about the conference call from my memory.

Except for Grove, who was fired for almost finking the operation to higher ups in Marsh in Summer 2001, and thrown out of Silversteam.

Next, while the towers are smouldering, billions upon billions of money laundering illegalities are conducted, as noted by the rescued hardrives of Convar. (and destroy Cantor Fitzgerald due to the Brady Bond bill ,see below; and money laudner through Buttonwood International Group, right below Marsh and Mclellan it seems.)

Evidence of the transactional illegalities were found on hard drives rescued from the WTC rubble by European data recovery corp Convar.

However, to shut Convar up, Convar was bought up by Kroll quickly in 2002 and the information was hidden about these transactions. Kroll is "security" (or rather institutionalized insecurity) with Marvin Bush (Securacom) in the WTCs for the 9-11 events. Kroll is owned by....AIG.

Grove goes into the gold heist that was going on (though everyone should alredy know about that) in the basement of the WTCs during this billions of billions of money laundering digitially up top, before the whole buildings came down. It is his contention that the whole WTC event was a bundle of several operations, whether destruction because of asbestos via controlled demolitoin, planned gold heist in the basements, and killing off hundreds of Marsh witnesses, as well as the computer architecture that they tailor made for the paperless money laundering operation.

His grand theory is that the software industries are a large money laundering core of the world economy, based on his personal insider portraits of how they are tied up with the very people we see popping in and out of the government complicity story on 9-11, that even have linked to Cheney criminality, and how their security software really has intentional loopholes to make such money laundering more possible and paperless instead of documented.

He additionally recognizes various CIA (or NSA, he doesn't make clear) covert surveillance/data monitoring vehicles moveing around the streets at the base of the WTCs before they came down. How he recognizes this is that after leaving (being fired for complaining about the hushmoney arrangemnet as fraud to higher up people in Marsh) Silversteam, he works for a NSA cover operation (unknown to him, until later, where he starts to put 2 and 2 together, and then gets himself fired from there for the same kind of 9-11 research that got him in trouble and blacklisted and then fired from Silversteam.

The core issue I feel is his testimony basically about the AIG and Marsh interlinkages and that many people invovled in the the 9-11 operations or later overseas adventures of Iraq came out of Marsh (like Paul Bremer) as well, as well as the foreknowledge among the major international banks about 9-11, so they could steal the world blind during the events. and how AIG and Marsh people keep the cover up in place by their insertions elsewhere, which he documents clearly.

Grove additionally says forget the Fitzgerald investigation because Fitz covered up the 1993 FBI hit on the WTCs. Spitzer is linked to the Marsh people.

Other evidences for its veracity are how he and his fiancee's life were financially destroyed by these big banks after he started his research.

On the surface Richard Grove’s Story seems a fascinating and believable account of financial shenanigans going on prior to 9/11 but if we accept that there were no real victims then we have to look at his story from another perspective. Is his story meant to reinforce the notion that the Towers were occupied before 9/11? Perhaps someone could contact Scott Forbes -if he has not already been- a Senior Database Administrator for Fiduciary Trust who used to work in the South Tower of the WTC and who said that there was a ‘power down’ on the weekend before 9/11. If Forbes was a genuine employee he would have some idea of the actual numbers present in the South Tower in the weeks and months leading up to 9/11.

Veritasirl wrote:On the surface Richard Grove’s Story seems a fascinating and believable account of financial shenanigans going on prior to 9/11 but if we accept that there were no real victims then we have to look at his story from another perspective. Is his story meant to reinforce the notion that the Towers were occupied before 9/11? Perhaps someone could contact Scott Forbes -if he has not already been- a Senior Database Administrator for Fiduciary Trust who used to work in the South Tower of the WTC and who said that there was a ‘power down’ on the weekend before 9/11. If Forbes was a genuine employee he would have some idea of the actual numbers present in the South Tower in the weeks and months leading up to 9/11.

Is Scott Forbes still alive? It's sadly a question we have to ask with all the 'dead witnesses' like Barry Jennings and others.

It's an almost-believable fiction up until the line that went something like:

Except for Grove, who was fired for almost finking the operation to higher ups in Marsh in Summer 2001, and thrown out of Silversteam.

Which paints the "higher ups" of Marsh as innocent angels unaware of their scheming sim-ployees' devious marketing schemes. Sorry but I think we need to really push for accountability 'above' the sims - just who is running the simulation? - before we can go into all the dirty crimes that the computer generated people are committing.

RICHARD GROVE - "the corporate 9/11 whistleblower"or the story of yet another (refined) 9/11 gatekeeper

It has taken me many years to wrap my brain around this Richard Grove character. He contacted me way back in 2008, posing as an enthusiastic SEPTEMBER CLUES fan. This was, of course, a year or so before Hoi Polloi and yours truly put together the "VICSIM research", which exposed all the WTC victims and tenants as fake entities (in 2009). As it is (as I just verified today) Richard Grove actually sent me, on August 9, 2008, a kind 25euro donation ! I duly thanked him for it - but ...ehrm... "oddly enough", I have not heard from him since! In other words, Richard Grove probably does not support the VICSIM REPORT.

Who is Richard Grove, you may ask? Well, over the years, Richard has attained (within the "official 9/11 truth movement") a rather high profile and credibility as a hard-core, 9/11 "whistleblower". In my mind, he's just yet another gatekeeper - but hey, this will be for anyone to judge - as you reach the end of this post of mine. I must admit that he's damn good at his job - what with his slick and articulate speech delivery (as heard on many 'alternative' radio talk-shows) and apparent 9/11 'inside-trading' knowledge and saucy insights into the scam. Today, he now even says (on radio shows such as RED ICE radio) that he was on West Side Highway on the morning of 9/11, and did not hear any airplane passing above him. He also says he didn't see or hear the second airplane. I MUST wonder why he didn't tell me so when he contacted me back in 2008!

As the story goes, Richard Grove reached his first million $ at the tender age of thirty. But allow me to skip the details of his alleged early dash to riches and fortune. To make a long story short, his 9/11 "whistleblowing" revolves around his detailed tale that denounces some sinister insider-trading scheme involving a few hundred Marsh McLellan employees, who were allegedly lured to attend a meeting in the WTC - only to perish in the very floors supposedly struck by an airplane - and the subsequent collapse of the towers. Wow - what a devilish scheme!

Of course, we now know that the WTC towers were empty and that all of the alleged victims were fictitious entities.

So think about it: surely, the most crucial part of the 9/11 hoax was to sell to the public the idea of "3000 victims", Hence, what more convenient and "credible whistleblower" could the 9/11 perps pull out (like a rabbit out of a magician's hat) - than this Richard Grove character, who firmly assures you that many people died in the towers, while diverting your attention to some sinister inside-trading tale?

Now, Richard Grove accuses Marsh McLellan (a firm which allegedly lost 295 employees on 9/11) of laundering money through the "Buttonwood International Group". The problem is, it appears that the Buttonwood International Group does not exist:

Buttonwood International Group. The company that doesn't exist"The strange part is that this company says that it is located at One World Trade Center, Suite 7967 on August 20, 2001, however on their next update on December 21, 2001 it is listed at 14 Wall Street, 20th Floor."http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... g_id=97076

I hope Richard Grove will join this forum to debate this case. Let's wait and see.

That’s a pretty important piece of relevant information to leave out when talking to you. Why is Richard Grove avoiding the main issue like there was no plane… And goes on and delivers side distraction about supposed insider trading? That’s Gate-keeping.

I posted a link to the Red Ice Radio interview with Grove on another thread. I have followed the Peace Revolution Podcast for a while, and for the second time on the Red Ice interview I heard him say there are a number of ways of identifying planes, none of which were present on, or have been produced since 9/11. He also mentions that there are ways of deceptively manipulating video, calls Luc Courchesne's background into question and brings up the conflicting trajectories of the images he can't identify as planes.

So while it may be fair to say he doesn't state flatly there were no planes, he does say that the available evidence or lack of same, indicates that there were no planes. In a way I am more comfortable approaching people in this way, since I was not there that day. Instead of stating there were no planes (confrontational), asking what data and methodology that people have used to draw the conclusion that there were planes (non-confrontational, perhaps a better chance of keeping the conversation going).

It seems a bit of an unlikely strategy for a shill, advocating for dissolution of the state, renunciation of authority, encouraging critical thinking and exposing all the major institutions as contradictory frauds. Not that it isn't possible, but soon there may be no one left in the world with anything to offer besides the merry band at SC.

Farcevalue wrote:It seems a bit of an unlikely strategy for a shill, advocating for dissolution of the state, renunciation of authority, encouraging critical thinking and exposing all the major institutions as contradictory frauds.

That thought also came to my mind. If he actually wants the current American system completely gone**, it sure sounds to me like a good start on getting folks to turn off their damn TV and stop voting entirely. Maybe at that point they will see what fools they have all been, to think they ever got the truth from either gov. or media.

I've been saying it for years now, and I'll say it again. It's a huge shame there are so few people open to the forum's work and conclusions, and willing to help it move forward. Where is everyone? None of us is terribly special, and we're hardly the only folks who think the current political structure of the world is a ludicrous mess.

**The fact that we all think him a gatekeeper indicates strongly he probably IS a gatekeeper, and thus just another paid loser. Still, it's nice to ponder that someone with a public reputation actually might want the system gone for good.

I mean, come on folks - just read this extract from Richard Grove's "firsthand testimony":

Richard Grove wrote:"Aside from witnessing events which contradict the “Official Story”, I experienced the horror of bearing witness to a situation wherein my peers were trapped in a burning building and realizing that there was nothing that I could do to help them… As they lost hope and began to jump (in some cases hand in hand)… the flailing of their bodies as they were pulled helplessly toward the earth was almost the most disturbing part of my experience that morning.

I was within 2 or 3 blocks of the North Tower when the South Tower exploded."

Richard Grove is likely nothing but an umpteenth clown assigned to reinforce the Official Lie (that thousands died in the towers) - and of "people jumping from the towers"... The script, of course, includes some of those jumping hand in hand. Just how stoopid can this get?

Richard Grove's gatekeeping role is that of "whistleblowing" about completely irrelevant and spurious '"insider-trading" matters - WHILE UPHOLDING THE FALSE NOTION THAT (but a crucial one for the perps) THERE WERE PEOPLE INSIDE THE WTC TOWERS THAT MORNING.

Can you point me to the thread where the empty towers on the day and or leading up to it is fleshed out? I know I have seen some information about leases not being renewed and the fact that there was no real estate demand surge after the event. Do we have that compiled here somewhere?

Farcevalue wrote:Can you point me to the thread where the empty towers on the day and or leading up to it is fleshed out? I know I have seen some information about leases not being renewed and the fact that there was no real estate demand surge after the event. Do we have that compiled here somewhere?

Not just on the day! It has been mooted that the towers had been empty for years, twin white elephants. The 1993 fake "bombings" and the infinite number of planted media stories of "terrorists" hell-bent on blowing up the towers were a ploy to clear out the last remaining long term leaseholders. A very feasible scenario, in my opinion.