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Re: Theories about Mainland.

Originally Posted by number12michael

But that make sense....maybe they will show the Ghosts how to hold on to their humanity...but remember the Asarakam can not change back once they "awaken" so i doubt they know anything about control(so sadly that means we wont be seeing warriors awaken and then change back) but maybe we will see Warriors "half awaken" or awaken parts of their body.

It's rather interesting because the awakened warriors can return to their human form, although without retaining the virtue of humanity. AO are conscious and recall the past, yet they do not experience the feelings of love and altruism anymore. However, the awakanening of Asarakams is different than that of the warriors. The only similarity is that "they can't turn back". Does this implies that they also lose their humanity??? I have no idea. However, Rimuto stated that when combining their flesh, a new brainy parasite is born, which can infect and control the host to some extent. As a result, we can assume that this parasite is the actual yoki. Since both yoma and claymores have yoki, I was wondering what if the brainy parasite (yoki) is arbitrary when it comes to awakening. Considering that awakening is caused by falling into temptation (which can be also defined as lack of self-control) and both Yoma and claymores can fall for it, it is reasonable to believe that the brainy parasite does not influence awakening, but is rather a channel that allows infected humans or claymores transform when they lose self-control. If yoki is arbitrary what does it say about the self control of the Asarakams??

Re: Theories about Mainland.

Originally Posted by Ancy

It's rather interesting because the awakened warriors can return to their human form, although without retaining the virtue of humanity. AO are conscious and recall the past, yet they do not experience the feelings of love and altruism anymore. However, the awakanening of Asarakams is different than that of the warriors. The only similarity is that "they can't turn back". Does this implies that they also lose their humanity??? I have no idea. However, Rimuto stated that when combining their flesh, a new brainy parasite is born, which can infect and control the host to some extent. As a result, we can assume that this parasite is the actual yoki. Since both yoma and claymores have yoki, I was wondering what if the brainy parasite (yoki) is arbitrary when it comes to awakening. Considering that awakening is caused by falling into temptation (which can be also defined as lack of self-control) and both Yoma and claymores can fall for it, it is reasonable to believe that the brainy parasite does not influence awakening, but is rather a channel that allows infected humans or claymores transform when they lose self-control. If yoki is arbitrary what does it say about the self control of the Asarakams??

My theory is so twisted

Rimuto said that the awakenings were "similar" so there are differences.

And how can you say Awakened beings dont "feel love" Riful and duph were in love. thats what confuses me....there seems to be a change when they awaken...but i dont think they "lose their humanity" i think its more they succumb to a great hunger (roxanne said she was hungry enough after awakening that she was willing to eat something that tastes like shit). and as time passes they can learn to control that hunger...Riful...even Chronos and lars are very human like(beside the fact that they like the taste of humans)...and i assume they could choose to eat other animals besides humans.

maybe the parasite fuses with the brain...that could explane why most warriors have crappy personality's...they are half human half parasite

"Keep Eating Shit For The Rest Of Your Life " - 愛憎のロクサーヌ- Roxanne of Love and Hate

Re: Theories about Mainland.

I wonder what would happen if the flesh of a normal Asarakam was put into a Human ? And the flesh of its Awakened form. Would there be a new breed of Claymore and Abyss feeders with their traits or would something completely new be born ??

Re: Theories about Mainland.

If the mainland continent is Asia or Eurasia, then the two factions there must be extremely huge empires. The size of the one of the two empires is most certainly larger than modern China + India (Perhaps analogous to China + India vs Russia + Middle East). Then these empires should vast expanses of resources. That would already be an understatement if the empire is actually analogous China + India. Also, a continent the size of Australia would surely not go unnoticed by the enemy empire. Assuming these conjectures, I find it extremely ridiculous that the opposing empire to that of the Organization's has not tried some sort of small invasion or spied on the claymores. Well, maybe they had but are not known to the current claymore actors. In any case, I still find it extremely ridiculous there aren't any agents to subterfuge the claymore experiments by either interrupting the Organization or enlightening the claymore warriors. I mean, it's pretty obvious the opposing empire that's so powerful with the DoD would surely try anything at all cost to interrupt the development of claymores.

They way the mangaka introduced the concept of mainland continent is just too out there without any past references or logical consistencies.

Re: Theories about Mainland.

Originally Posted by moredrowsy

If the mainland continent is Asia or Eurasia, then the two factions there must be extremely huge empires. The size of the one of the two empires is most certainly larger than modern China + India (Perhaps analogous to China + India vs Russia + Middle East). Then these empires should vast expanses of resources. That would already be an understatement if the empire is actually analogous China + India. Also, a continent the size of Australia would surely not go unnoticed by the enemy empire. Assuming these conjectures, I find it extremely ridiculous that the opposing empire to that of the Organization's has not tried some sort of small invasion or spied on the claymores. Well, maybe they had but are not known to the current claymore actors. In any case, I still find it extremely ridiculous there aren't any agents to subterfuge the claymore experiments by either interrupting the Organization or enlightening the claymore warriors. I mean, it's pretty obvious the opposing empire that's so powerful with the DoD would surely try anything at all cost to interrupt the development of claymores.

They way the mangaka introduced the concept of mainland continent is just too out there without any past references or logical consistencies.

Rubel is a spy from the other side sent to the island to spy on and destroy(if possible) any promising research . so they are aware of the island and whats going on

"Keep Eating Shit For The Rest Of Your Life " - 愛憎のロクサーヌ- Roxanne of Love and Hate

Re: Theories about Mainland.

Reviving this thread with a few new points via the Manga newer chapters.
So Miria finds the Askaram and upon beheading Rimuto, goes and cuts the tubes holding the Askaram.
We even see visual evidence of them deteriorating.

Is Rubel happy now?
In other words, think about it.
Miria just destroyed the only source of Yoma and Claymore for the whole island; no longer will the production be capable.
It's quite imperative that the Mainland will get involved very soon...especially when they receive news of the Organization's island base being destroyed.

Re: Theories about Mainland.

Originally Posted by Whirlzap

Reviving this thread with a few new points via the Manga newer chapters.
So Miria finds the Askaram and upon beheading Rimuto, goes and cuts the tubes holding the Askaram.
We even see visual evidence of them deteriorating.

Is Rubel happy now?
In other words, think about it.
Miria just destroyed the only source of Yoma and Claymore for the whole island; no longer will the production be capable.
It's quite imperative that the Mainland will get involved very soon...especially when they receive news of the Organization's island base being destroyed.

Not sure if I could call him happy, although I can't speak in his place, I think he is just as he says: seeing how events roll out, subtly directing the course of events as needed. This rebellion is merely one of them. He did mention the possibility of the Org rebuilding the experiment should it get found and destroyed, and also, in the event of destruction by their own undoing, they will think twice before restarting the experiment, which is more suitable as a description for current events. Note that this is Rubel's point of view and there doesn't seem to be obvious evidence as to what the Organization and their Mainland force will do, if they should react to this at all. However, one thing for certain, the (seemingly) leading scientist Daae is now more or less out of control, and Leader Rimuto has lost his head. While I don't doubt the Org would have been communicating experimental results to the Mainland, two important figures are effectively gone. Daae even more as a loss as he probably has much extensive knowledge on Claymore than anyone else known. Nothing says for certain that this puts off the Org from operating again, but Rubel's definitely sees this in a positive light.

In my first post (the fat long one,) I have mentioned slightly the issue of capturing the Dragon race. This is purely from my imagination, but I suspect they would have to be at least remotely capable to capture one alive. I don't doubt they wouldn't be able to capture a second one, but at the very least the Island appears to be free from them, for now.

Not sure if the Org will put enough effort into subduing the rebellion either. The plus side of controlling the situation would mainly be to prevent possible disruption in their war effort back in the Mainland. However, we do not know the exact strength of their Mainland force. They may need to gauge the amount of resources worthy of spending in dealing with the uprise. If anything does get sent in Miria's way, we can not take it for granted as a reflection of the Org's true strength.

Re: Theories about Mainland.

Originally Posted by Utsune

Not sure if the Org will put enough effort into subduing the rebellion either. The plus side of controlling the situation would mainly be to prevent possible disruption in their war effort back in the Mainland. However, we do not know the exact strength of their Mainland force. They may need to gauge the amount of resources worthy of spending in dealing with the uprise. If anything does get sent in Miria's way, we can not take it for granted as a reflection of the Org's true strength.

Let's look at this from political side... your coun... federation, pardon me ( Miria said that in the end the countries divided into two blocks ) is in war. And one of the most promising projects for victory is the AB solder experiment. When your most precious experiment suffer disaster like this the most logical thing you ( and most leader would do ) is to either:
-send a substantial military force to contain the situation.
-drop a bomb and annihilate the entire facility to contain the situation.

In short: there is no way in hell that the Mainland faction that is tied to this will leave it as it is. If we take in account that Claymores were actually a part of their military force then by all military regulation you must deal with the deserters, especially when they are this size and this powerful. So all in all - I expect them to react in some way until the end of the manga, if that doesn't;t happen I will be disappointed.

As for exact strenght of Mainland military force - we know few things:

-Mainland is bigger then Claymore continent ( and Claymore continent is roughly the size of Australia, so the Mainland can be the size of Asia, Africa or even both Americas ).
-The two factions are in fact the unions of countries ( how many I don't know but I remember Miria saying 'many' when she was describing this ).

So all in all - judging by the size of the continent alone their population must be numbering in millions, maybe more. So when it comes to the military might they can vary between hundreds of thousands to millions of solders - depending on the overall population.

I am, because of all of this mentioned, expecting a response from the Mainland, Yagi please do not disappoint me.

"The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

Re: Theories about Mainland.

Ah, I've forgotten that this is probably "one of the most promising projects," yes you're absolutely right. Though when I mention the Org's "true strength," I mean it in terms of talented leaders or capable personnels who are basically the driving force behind the whole army. Having been reminded by your insight into the size of the land rids of my doubt for lack of potential strength.

But seriously, I think most of us will be really really sad if Yagi-sensei doesn't expand on this Mainland thing Though Claymore has long been brilliant before the Mainland revelation, when that came to light, personally it feels so... 'Wow.' Just 'wow' kinda thing. Amazing description I know lol. This never came across to me before, but in the recent years there were several good manga that were cancelled for one reason or another, all of a sudden. I hope I didn't just jinx it for Claymore, please don't kill me :P

And on this note, I never know what to call that... faction that is behind the Organisation... the Mainland force? the Organisation people? the main Org? bigger Org? Mainland dragonless people? Org country? Org... Yeah, never thought about using the term 'Federation' Not sure if politically correctly, but I think I could be using OrgFed in my future posts lol (AskFed for the other side haha?) it might sound stupid but that's one reason I will use it XD

Re: Theories about Mainland.

Originally Posted by Utsune

Ah, I've forgotten that this is probably "one of the most promising projects," yes you're absolutely right. Though when I mention the Org's "true strength," I mean it in terms of talented leaders or capable personnels who are basically the driving force behind the whole army. Having been reminded by your insight into the size of the land rids of my doubt for lack of potential strength.

Well seeing how powerful and capable leaders of Organisation were and giving into account that fact that they have survived 100+ years war even with the other side using Dragons I can farely say that they are quite capable as leaders. Any country, federation, union etc... that has been in war that long against those kind of enemies has very capable leaders.

Quote:

But seriously, I think most of us will be really really sad if Yagi-sensei doesn't expand on this Mainland thing Though Claymore has long been brilliant before the Mainland revelation, when that came to light, personally it feels so... 'Wow.' Just 'wow' kinda thing. Amazing description I know lol. This never came across to me before, but in the recent years there were several good manga that were cancelled for one reason or another, all of a sudden. I hope I didn't just jinx it for Claymore, please don't kill me :P

I don't think that will happened, Claymroe is quite popular and Yagi didn't show us so far that he is bored of telling it's story. Even if he ends the story after this battle there is high probability that the story will continue in off-spin manga or even an anime. I too am interested as hell when it comes to Mainland, to learn that all their doing was just miniscular piece in one big picture was epic. And I am sure we will learn more about that one day.

Quote:

And on this note, I never know what to call that... faction that is behind the Organisation... the Mainland force? the Organisation people? the main Org? bigger Org? Mainland dragonless people? Org country? Org... Yeah, never thought about using the term 'Federation' Not sure if politically correctly, but I think I could be using OrgFed in my future posts lol (AskFed for the other side haha?) it might sound stupid but that's one reason I will use it XD

OrgFed sounds about right
Miria did say that various countries broke into two sides - two unions or federations.
Until one day we don't learn the true name of Mainland factions we will call them Organization faction and Dragon faction.
So OrgFed and DraFed is good with me for now

"The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

Re: Theories about Mainland.

Something just came into my head. Can the experiment (on Claymore continent) truly be considered to be unable to be restarted (given current events and information)?

We know that DoD flesh + human = yoma (parasite) + human = Claymore. We also know that Claymore flesh + human = Claymore (how weak or how strong is irrelevant). If the org. was capable of keeping 2 DoD's alive for years surely the same could be done with a claymore or two.

Dae would certainly want to know 'what kind of warriors could be produced from HA flesh?' (Considering that Awakened flesh can be used to reanimate corpses?)

I would also remind people that we have already seen a parasite (or new type of entity) resulting from the melding of two claymores' flesh; the destroyer, and if it was Clare’s psyche that allow her to compel it to keep the 'horned one' imprisoned - well you can see where I'm going with this.

(And we still haven't had it confirmed that it is truly dead; or that if it's remains disintegrate or not, could it's remains be kept alive and used to create claymores and yoma?)

If it's possible to make a claymore from claymore flesh then what about a yoma? (Especially possible if Dae somehow survives). Surely the flesh of Dae's no.1 collection would also be prime research material.

Secondly, in terms of the 'cat being out of the bag,' only Raki, the current generations of warriors and the relatively small population of the holy city know about the orgs real purpose. Unless the priests have sent out a general announcement about the situation, but given the islands main source of info tends to be rumours, and villages at the outskirts of the continent didn't know about Yoma, I doubt that word had spread far.

With the idea that, 'Elimination of authors of unwanted facts usually silences truth,' most of the continent could be kept unaware of the truth if the holy cities inhabitants were killed.

I just feel that there is plenty of wiggle room for things to get much worse.

The opportunities for even scarier forms of research are so vast; it's frightening. Not even discounting the possibilities that we don't even know about; here's one, it was always children who were used in the experiment?

In war, even more so in desperate situations, you usually equip new weapons to your best soldiers and I doubt that those 'best' would be 10 years old boys; especially if this is before the idea of actually ‘experimenting’ came along. They must have had some successes with adult warriors who 'volunteered' for the process. (Suicide soldiers, indeed.)

I could imagine an army from the orgfed arriving and killing a claymore then inserting some of her flesh into their soldiers to create a squad of ‘warriors’ to hunt the claymores.

I don’t think that it would be a stretch given that we now know how medieval the method of creating a claymore is. Raki, who is a normal human, can supposedly fight near a claymore’s level (I know he only fought the twins); so if a similar warrior received the flesh how strong would they be, considering that most claymores don’t have to awaken to defeat an awakened or another warrior for that matter.

The name claymore is another interesting thing. 'Claymore' was a name given by the continent’s inhabitants, not by the claymore themselves or the organisation; it would be nice to hear what the Orgfed calls these warriors? Or at least called them before they realised how they could backfire on them.

I just think that Yagi could easily produce a four volume series about the mainland and give him some time off from the main story; and get his duck in a row if he intends to send our heroes there or have new threats appear where they are.

I would be especially interested to know how they came up with the idea of inserting DoD flesh into someone in the first place.

Originally Posted by Falcor

Until (or should I say, unless) Yagi tells us otherwise, it could go either way. It's his story, afterall... so logic doesn't mean squat. But for argument's sake, assuming Yagi hasn't entirely given up on plot development, I'd prefer logic to... whim.