Tuesday, December 21, 2010 Forced labor in Burma ((photo: KHRG) The list of goods coming out of Asia that were produced using forced labor is a long one, and is mostly the product of two countries: China and Burma. These two nations, which have received plenty of criticism for their human rights records, lead the list of worst offenders of making citizens work against their will in factories, fields and mines.

According to the U.S. Labor Department, the 10 countries that use forced labor for the most different products, and the goods they produce while doing so, are:

Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-21-10 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm a little disappointed that the US isn't on that list

Of course, we sort of appear by proxy since we trade with a number of those countries for those very same goods.
Only to a DUer are US workers the same as forced labor in China, North Korea etc.

stray cat (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-21-10 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. This will make make many DUers very unhappy not to be recognized as the most persecuted

Workers in the world. Since we all know America is the worst country in tho world to live in and the American worker the poorest financially and the most oppressed. You have that right.

NJCardFan

12-21-2010, 11:47 AM

Can someone explain to me what a physic nut is? Also, it's funny how these DUers bring this up and are upset that we trade with some of these countries yet when it comes to China, this is an economic model that they want here. And I know that this is going to make Poli look at me with rolled eyes but how many of those 10 nations are of a fair skinned people? Just making a point that perhaps white people aren't the white devils people of color make us out to be.

Zathras

12-21-2010, 12:28 PM

Can someone explain to me what a physic nut is?

Here you go: http://www.tropilab.com/jatropha-cur.html

Madisonian

12-21-2010, 04:35 PM

You would most likely not find a computer that has some Chinese component in it so I would encourage all DUers to stop supporting slave labor and throw them away at the first opportunity.

Only to a DUer are US workers the same as forced labor in China, North Korea etc.

They are not. The working people of the US form a Labor Aristocracy.

Still, because American companies outsource their labor for near-starving wages abroad, purchase huge swaths of land so local communities cannot farm them on their own, and stock our department stores with the products of this horrid labor that we buy for cheap, we should definitely be on that list.

Wei Wu Wei

12-21-2010, 05:08 PM

Can someone explain to me what a physic nut is? Also, it's funny how these DUers bring this up and are upset that we trade with some of these countries yet when it comes to China, this is an economic model that they want here.

who wants that?

I for one have been posting for weeks about State Capitalism in China and specifically how we are heading in that direction and why we should not.

m00

12-21-2010, 06:31 PM

who wants that?

I for one have been posting for weeks about State Capitalism in China and specifically how we are heading in that direction and why we should not.

And what would you replace Capitalism with in the US?

Madisonian

12-21-2010, 07:13 PM

They are not. The working people of the US form a Labor Aristocracy.

Still, because American companies outsource their labor for near-starving wages abroad, purchase huge swaths of land so local communities cannot farm them on their own, and stock our department stores with the products of this horrid labor that we buy for cheap, we should definitely be on that list.

So you want to tell the people working for near starving wages that for their own good you want to prevent them from earning even that?

I always love the hypocrisy of those living in opulence compared to those in true 3rd world countries that decry Capitalism. Give up your house, car, air conditioning, computer and every other creature comfort that you have either earned or been given courtesy of our tax dollars and go live in the villages and pallet shacks that the truly poverty stricken inhabit. Then tell those that have any form of employment or revenue earning capacity how it is better in your view that they actually do nothing and earn nothing than to support the Capitalist aristocracy.

When you do that, I will listen. Until then, you nothing but empty rhetoric and hyperbole.

Wei Wu Wei

12-21-2010, 08:19 PM

okay let's buy all the land in a poor country to prevent the people from growing their own food and tell them the only way they can eat or feed their children is if they work in my factory for 30 cents an hour, far more labor and time than it would cost to grow their own food if they had the rights to the land

but hey why are they crying? all we're doing is offering them jobs right? there's no way it could do anything but benefit them!

or better yet, since this is capitalism we're talking about they can just save their 30 cents an hour (whatever they don't spend on food or clothes) and with enough patience and determination they can one day buy their land back and open their own factory! right?

Wei Wu Wei

12-21-2010, 08:23 PM

And what would you replace Capitalism with in the US?

Systems evolve. You do not take one system, remove it, and then replace it with another. That's just absurd.

AmPat

12-21-2010, 08:27 PM

stray cat (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-21-10 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. This will make make many DUers very unhappy not to be recognized as the most persecuted

Workers in the world. Since we all know America is the worst country in tho world to live in and the American worker the poorest financially and the most oppressed. OK, which one of you is this?

Constitutionally Speaking

12-21-2010, 09:03 PM

They are not. The working people of the US form a Labor Aristocracy.

Still, because American companies outsource their labor for near-starving wages abroad, purchase huge swaths of land so local communities cannot farm them on their own, and stock our department stores with the products of this horrid labor that we buy for cheap, we should definitely be on that list.

And yet the VAST majority of those near-starvation wages are FAR more than they would make without those jobs.

Madisonian

12-21-2010, 09:04 PM

okay let's buy all the land in a poor country to prevent the people from growing their own food and tell them the only way they can eat or feed their children is if they work in my factory for 30 cents an hour, far more labor and time than it would cost to grow their own food if they had the rights to the land

but hey why are they crying? all we're doing is offering them jobs right? there's no way it could do anything but benefit them!

or better yet, since this is capitalism we're talking about they can just save their 30 cents an hour (whatever they don't spend on food or clothes) and with enough patience and determination they can one day buy their land back and open their own factory! right?

Please provide some examples of where poor people sold the great swaths of land they themselves owned to American companies.
Or are you talking about poor people packed into cities that don't own enough land to grow a blade of grass and never did?

PoliCon

12-21-2010, 09:08 PM

They are not. The working people of the US form a Labor Aristocracy.

Still, because American companies outsource their labor for near-starving wages abroad, purchase huge swaths of land so local communities cannot farm them on their own, and stock our department stores with the products of this horrid labor that we buy for cheap, we should definitely be on that list.

http://www.mylespaul.com/gallery/data/500/not_this_shit_again.jpg

Wei Wu Wei

12-21-2010, 09:13 PM

And yet the VAST majority of those near-starvation wages are FAR more than they would make without those jobs.

Assuming that these foreign companies are already there, buying the land, and changing the market to their favor. once you take away every option a person has to self-direct their own labor, then yes, working for 30 cents an hour is better than starving to death.

Also supporting social upheavals, toppling democratically elected governments for the benefit of corporations (The 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état), and putting economic policies in place solely designed to make massive profits and extremely cheap shit for Americans to buy and throw away

You can't pretend any single event or statistic happens in a vacuum. It's like tobacco companies selling nicotine patches - what nice guys helping people quit smoking!

m00

12-21-2010, 09:13 PM

Systems evolve. You do not take one system, remove it, and then replace it with another. That's just absurd.

Sure you do. It's called a revolution. The USA even had one, once. So did the Soviets, and the Chinese, and the French. You need to brush up on your history.

Again, I ask: what would you replace American Capitalism with?

Wei Wu Wei

12-21-2010, 09:15 PM

Please provide some examples of where poor people sold the great swaths of land they themselves owned to American companies.
Or are you talking about poor people packed into cities that don't own enough land to grow a blade of grass and never did?

it's often times their corrupt governments selling the land at the expense of their people for $$$

surprising?

Madisonian

12-21-2010, 09:15 PM

They are not. The working people of the US form a Labor Aristocracy.

Still, because American companies outsource their labor for near-starving wages abroad, purchase huge swaths of land so local communities cannot farm them on their own, and stock our department stores with the products of this horrid labor that we buy for cheap, we should definitely be on that list.

I am also curious as to where you buy much of anything and keep to your moral and economic principles.

Wei Wu Wei

12-21-2010, 09:19 PM

Sure you do. It's called a revolution. The USA even had one, once. So did the Soviets, and the Chinese, and the French. You need to brush up on your history.

Again, I ask: what would you replace American Capitalism with?

Each of these was a process. The Americans didn't just up and one day fight off the British. There was a very long series of grievances and progressive thinking towards a new system that started before they even colonized the Americas, and which escalated after. While in these cases, the "tipping point" happened relatively quickly, the framework of change had already been generated among the people, who were ready for it. You can't just switch governments one day without any preparation.

Regardless, the era of Revolutions is over, at least in the First World nations.

I am an unapologetic critic of capitalism and I will be the first to say no revolution will occur in the USA.

Wei Wu Wei

12-21-2010, 09:22 PM

I am also curious as to where you buy much of anything and keep to your moral and economic principles.

I don't buy much of anything but I don't pretend to be ideologically pure or morally righteous. I've been poor (by american standards) and I've been not-quite-poor, and all the while I never became so deluded as to think that my luxurious lifestyle is not dependent on countless hours of exploited hard labor and suffering of countless people who were not lucky enough to be born here.

Rockntractor

12-21-2010, 09:25 PM

I don't buy much of anything but I don't pretend to be ideologically pure or morally righteous. I've been poor (by american standards) and I've been not-quite-poor, and all the while I never became so deluded as to think that my luxurious lifestyle is not dependent on countless hours of exploited hard labor and suffering of countless people who were not lucky enough to be born here.

why aren't you in one of the underdeveloped countries helping them?

Madisonian

12-21-2010, 09:29 PM

it's often times their corrupt governments selling the land at the expense of their people for $$$

surprising?

So the people that are starving did not own squat, correct? And since the corrupt government was not going to let them make productive use of it in any way to benefit themselves, it is better to let them starve than earn even 30 cents an hour which could be the difference between life and death for them and the family they probably should not have created in the first place.
Easy to say with a full belly sitting back in the bad old US of A, replying from a computer that cost more than some people in those same 3rd world countries will make in a year from a dwelling that they dare not even dream about with indoor plumbing they may have never seen or used.

I really do admire the sacrifices you want them to make on your behalf to support the World According To Wei.

Madisonian

12-21-2010, 09:33 PM

I don't buy much of anything but I don't pretend to be ideologically pure or morally righteous. I've been poor (by american standards) and I've been not-quite-poor, and all the while I never became so deluded as to think that my luxurious lifestyle is not dependent on countless hours of exploited hard labor and suffering of countless people who were not lucky enough to be born here.

So it is acceptable to you to exploit them because you claim to sympathize with their plight, its just that no one else should?

PoliCon

12-21-2010, 09:37 PM

Notice that all of these countries are/lean Marxist.

FDK

12-21-2010, 10:01 PM

Each of these was a process. The Americans didn't just up and one day fight off the British. There was a very long series of grievances and progressive thinking towards a new system that started before they even colonized the Americas, and which escalated after. While in these cases, the "tipping point" happened relatively quickly, the framework of change had already been generated among the people, who were ready for it. You can't just switch governments one day without any preparation.

Regardless, the era of Revolutions is over, at least in the First World nations.

I am an unapologetic critic of capitalism and I will be the first to say no revolution will occur in the USA.

Progressive in what sense? Certainly not in the current politiical sense.

I don't buy much of anything but I don't pretend to be ideologically pure or morally righteous. I've been poor (by american standards) and I've been not-quite-poor, and all the while I never became so deluded as to think that my luxurious lifestyle is not dependent on countless hours of exploited hard labor and suffering of countless people who were not lucky enough to be born here.

Wow. I mean wow. Do you even realize how much of a sniveling hypocrite you just sounded like? If you were even a modicum of true to your beliefs, you would be living the lifestyle you believe we all should be living. But you're a sniveling hypocrite which is typical of American liberalism. 'Do as I say, not as I do' is your mantra. This is why you people are a joke. Funny how you talk trash about exploited labor on a computer who's components are more then likely made in one of these countries.

SarasotaRepub

12-21-2010, 11:41 PM

Wow. I mean wow. Do you even realize how much of a sniveling hypocrite you just sounded like? If you were even a modicum of true to your beliefs, you would be living the lifestyle you believe we all should be living. But you're a sniveling hypocrite which is typical of American liberalism. 'Do as I say, not as I do' is your mantra. This is why you people are a joke. Funny how you talk trash about exploited labor on a computer who's components are more then likely made in one of these countries.

When Wei is slinging American made Spam in a 3rd World Hell Hole and reporting it on his iPhone I might take him seriously. :D

Wei Wu Wei

12-21-2010, 11:51 PM

Wow. I mean wow. Do you even realize how much of a sniveling hypocrite you just sounded like? If you were even a modicum of true to your beliefs, you would be living the lifestyle you believe we all should be living. But you're a sniveling hypocrite which is typical of American liberalism. 'Do as I say, not as I do' is your mantra. This is why you people are a joke. Funny how you talk trash about exploited labor on a computer who's components are more then likely made in one of these countries.

I don't pretend to be ideologically pure or morally righteous.

It's my opinion that you might benefit from giving up the idea of being totally ideologically sound, totally pure in action, or totally just in your morality (including actions).

No one doesn't contradict themselves in some way because contradiction is, in a way, the nature of a human being.

There's a contradiction between my ideas of an ideal society and the society in which I live in. There are contradictions in my ideas of an ideal society. There are contradictions in the society I live in.

I'm not going to run full speed in the direction that I think is harmful, but I'm also not so foolish as to believe in some image of myself and the world that absolves me of the guilt that comes with the feeling of responsibility for one's actions. I don't want to feel good about myself and remove all guilt, I believe being a good person entails never feeling like you've done enough, like you're sinless. I understand that I am part of a system that hurts people, and it motivates me to try to change that, which keeps me constantly hungry to learn about the system. I recognize my sins which I am aware of, and recognize that there are sins that I'm not aware of.

I don't think this makes me a hypocrite but whatever makes you happy bud

Rockntractor

12-21-2010, 11:55 PM

Jeez! There is nothing worse than a sanctimonious commie lib!

Rockntractor

12-21-2010, 11:56 PM

I don't think this makes me a hypocrite but whatever makes you happy bud

We aren't bud, bud is what you be smoking boy!:rolleyes:

swirling_vortex

12-22-2010, 12:08 AM

okay let's buy all the land in a poor country to prevent the people from growing their own food and tell them the only way they can eat or feed their children is if they work in my factory for 30 cents an hour, far more labor and time than it would cost to grow their own food if they had the rights to the land

but hey why are they crying? all we're doing is offering them jobs right? there's no way it could do anything but benefit them!

or better yet, since this is capitalism we're talking about they can just save their 30 cents an hour (whatever they don't spend on food or clothes) and with enough patience and determination they can one day buy their land back and open their own factory! right?

Assuming that these foreign companies are already there, buying the land, and changing the market to their favor. once you take away every option a person has to self-direct their own labor, then yes, working for 30 cents an hour is better than starving to death.

Also supporting social upheavals, toppling democratically elected governments for the benefit of corporations (The 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état), and putting economic policies in place solely designed to make massive profits and extremely cheap shit for Americans to buy and throw away

You can't pretend any single event or statistic happens in a vacuum. It's like tobacco companies selling nicotine patches - what nice guys helping people quit smoking!
Once again, you have grossly mis-interpreted to make it appear as if one day, all the 3rd word nations were holding hands and then all of a sudden these evil entities swoop up and force people to work. Yes, I've read my international relations textbook and they always include the same kinds of crap such as "multinational corporations" that allows them full use of their Marxist ideologies. You might think something like anarcho-syndacism is feasible where everyone shares everything, but in reality you still run into the same economic calculation problem.

In addition, when you live in a 3rd country, things are a lot harder to survive on when you don't have a very high technological advancement. That makes something like food production a total game of chance. One bad weather event and you might starve to death. Thankfully, we don't have to deal with that anymore since the evil capitalists brought us things like the steam engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_engine) and other forms of automation that socialists and the like have been fighting from the very beginning.

Therefore, the choice at hand is to work or starve to death. But with these companies entering 3rd world countries, these people experience something that we take for granted: A stable income. The wages also rose over time as well, so people seek out such work. But what do you want to do Wee-Wee? You'd rather have these people go back to a much worse level of standard of living. No amount of communistic governmental central planning will ever lift the standard of living in the same way capitalism can.

The key in understanding this is that the addition of capital brings about innovation, which brings areas such as technological advancement. Those advancements, however, don't stay in the factories, they eventually reach out to the common man. Otherwise, if your definition of capitalism was true, then things such as computers would still be in the giant mainframe stage, if that.

I'd say look at this as well: Capitalism and Exploitation of the Third World Countries (http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/culture/books-non-fiction/4709-The-Capitalist-Manifesto-Capitalism-and-Exploitation-the-Third-World-Countries.html)

Adam Wood

12-22-2010, 01:04 AM

When Wei is slinging American made Spam in a 3rd World Hell Hole and reporting it on his iPhone I might take him seriously. :DPssssssttt...

iPhones are made in China. :D

Rockntractor

12-22-2010, 01:09 AM

Pssssssttt...

iPhones are made in China. :D

We can give him a tin can with a string.

AmPat

12-22-2010, 10:24 AM

WEItard should be wearing home spun clothing and living hand to mouth. All those products he uses are made by expolited (potential DIMoRAT voting) workers at the point of a gun by evil fat cat, aristocratic corporations. How terrible! We should level all those heavily DIMoRAT cities and return to the earth. We should cease all foreign trade and each country should be self sufficient. If they cannot feed their population, let them starve until at the "proper" level of population. All money, goods, and services should be shared equally between the survivors. :rolleyes:How quaint WEI WEI.

When are you going to grow up?

You were previously asked a question that you have once again failed to answer: What would you replace capitalism with?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???Waiting!

Also, your response to your absurd statement that revolutions don't occur was as ridiculous as you and your philosophy. Revolutions do occur and your response was lame in that; those "revolutions were a process."???
In that sense EVERYTHING is a process. That piano that fell out of the window right on top of your head is what evacuated your brain from your skull. It is the primary cause of your missing in action brain. The process that Laurel and Hardy went through in attempting to load it on the truck is not the cause. :cool:

Rockntractor

12-22-2010, 10:29 AM

WEItard should be wearing home spun clothing and living hand to mouth.

He probably wears hemp burlap underwear, when he runs out of weed he can smoke them.

NJCardFan

12-22-2010, 12:55 PM

Here's where retards like wee wee get it wrong. For starters, ask the workers in these factories if they feel they're being exploited? Chances are they'd tell you that they're living better today than before this ebil corporation moved in and they're living a hell of a lot better than their father or father's father did. 2nd, another fact that retards like wee wee don't understand is that say the average cost of an iPod is $50(I know they're more, I'm using this amount to make a point). If those same iPods were being produced here making American wages, that same iPod would cost $500.