So he has a goal, if he makes 30 great, if he only comes close that's great too. I would rather have a player with high expectations of himself and possibly a little over confident, than have one with a lack of confidence.

lvnginhwktwn wrote:So he has a goal, if he makes 30 great, if he only comes close that's great too. I would rather have a player with high expectations of himself and possibly a little over confident, than have one with a lack of confidence.

Just a tad overconfident you're maintaining? Yeah ok, a high goal is understandable this ridiculousness is just stupid, full stop, no pass go.

43-8...it's all about that action boss....I'm just here so I won't get fined...

Yeah, a 30-sack season expectation is just like...Ok. 23, (.5 more than the current record, held by Strahan) I'd understand. Maybe even 25; but 30? Come on. The single season NFL interception record is 14 interceptions in a season. You don't see Richard Sherman saying he expects to get 20 interceptions, for example; and he's got more confidence and swagger than most non-Seahawks fans can stomach.

The point is both AP and Osi are making claims that are ridiculous for different reasons. For AP the goal is certainly possible if he prefers to destroy the offense and force Minnesota into drafting his replacement years too early. Osi is just a rotational player at this point and is reason number 1 on why Matt Ryan's contract is an overreach and why some of that money would have been better spent competing with the Seahawks acquiring a pass rush consisting of more than one DE in his 30's on the downside of his career.

43-8...it's all about that action boss....I'm just here so I won't get fined...

Ridiculous is ridiculous. Whatever the reasons. Aldon didn't say he would get 30 sacks anyways. The interviewer just asked him what he thought the absolute ceiling for a sack record would be. Aldon said 30, Jared Allen said 25. The only claim he made was that he was a candidate to break the sack record. Which isn't outrageous since with all those Justin Smith triple holds last year he was on track to beat it.

It wasn't just the absence of Justin Smith. Aldon was playing with a torn labrum for 2 months and had surgery after the season ended.

Smith's first appearance on the injury report with a shoulder problem that turned out to be his torn labrum was week 12. In weeks 12-14 he notched 4.5 sacks. Week 15 against the Patriots was the game when Justin Smith got hurt. Aldon Smith didn't get another sack in the regular season or playoffs.

It seems clear that Justin Smith's absence hampered Aldon Smith a lot more than his shoulder.

heyu123 wrote:Yep, it was all Justin Smith. I lost track of the number of 20 sack DEs he's created in Cincy and SF pre-Aldon.

So, since he has only earned Pro Bowls and All Pros while in San Francisco, he doesn't deserve them then? I mean, since he didn't do anything in Cincy, and all; and he couldn't have improved over time in his career, or anything.

Lady Talon wrote:Ridiculous is ridiculous. Whatever the reasons. Aldon didn't say he would get 30 sacks anyways. The interviewer just asked him what he thought the absolute ceiling for a sack record would be. Aldon said 30, Jared Allen said 25. The only claim he made was that he was a candidate to break the sack record. Which isn't outrageous since with all those Justin Smith triple holds last year he was on track to beat it.

This I can deal with.

43-8...it's all about that action boss....I'm just here so I won't get fined...

heyu123 wrote:Yep, it was all Justin Smith. I lost track of the number of 20 sack DEs he's created in Cincy and SF pre-Aldon.

So, since he has only earned Pro Bowls and All Pros while in San Francisco, he doesn't deserve them then? I mean, since he didn't do anything in Cincy, and all; and he couldn't have improved over time in his career, or anything.

What in the world are you arguing, roland? Of course he deserved them, and of course he has improved.

That does not mean he is a God and single handily turned Aldon Smith into a 20 sack player.

My point is, he has improved and so has the team around him. What, you think it's the "magic and mystique" of being a 49ers player that made him start getting annual Pro Bowls when he came to the 49ers? It's a variety of things; my only point is that Aldon Smith, while being very good, is not as good as his raw stats suggest. If you look solely at his stats thus far, he looks like a transcendent god come down from the heavens to collect sacks, so pardon me if I don't put his meat in my mouth just yet.

It wasn't just the absence of Justin Smith. Aldon was playing with a torn labrum for 2 months and had surgery after the season ended.

Smith's first appearance on the injury report with a shoulder problem that turned out to be his torn labrum was week 12. In weeks 12-14 he notched 4.5 sacks. Week 15 against the Patriots was the game when Justin Smith got hurt. Aldon Smith didn't get another sack in the regular season or playoffs.

It seems clear that Justin Smith's absence hampered Aldon Smith a lot more than his shoulder.

Sweet, this debate again, its been too long... We really spend an exorbitant amount of time discussing the Niners on this forum. Smith thinks he can get thirty sacks, well more power to him, whether its just self-belief or misplaced arrogance, leave him at it.

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." Mark Twain.

"Beast Mode is artist, puny Saints Defense merely his canvas!"

"When you die the only kingdom you'll see, will be two foot wide and six foot deep!"

Wow, I imagine that if Avril made a claim that he was setting 30 sacks as his goal for next season this place would explode with "BEAST!!!", "I have all the confidence that he can do it too!", "CHAMPIONSHIP!!

Talk about makin something out of nothing guys, but I guess you need to do what you need to do.

DISCLAIMER:

The trash talking that I do occasionally this week is strictly for gamesmanship between opposing fanbases as a result of our upcoming matchup this week on SNF. It by no means should be taken personally.

NinerLifer wrote:Wow, I imagine that if Avril made a claim that he was setting 30 sacks as his goal for next season this place would explode with "BEAST!!!", "I have all the confidence that he can do it too!", "CHAMPIONSHIP!!

Talk about makin something out of nothing guys, but I guess you need to do what you need to do.

Except you won't see that because Seahawks players care more about winning a Super Bowl than individual records.

How many other players have played next to Justin and had 33.5 sacks in 2 years? How many other players have their been in NFL history who were as good as Justin and had a guy next to him have 33.5 sacks over his first 2 seasons?

Look...Justin is really good and there is no doubt that his presence is beneficial to Aldon, but the way people write off a guy who has more sacks through his first 2 seasons than Reggie White and Derrick Thomas is rediculous.

Justin is DAMN good....but he isn't so good that he can make an average player break all time records.

Marvin, regardless of whatever you say, Aldon had good sack numbers after getting his injury while Justin was still playing, then when Justin went out, he hit a cold streak of getting none for what, 5 straight games through the Super Bowl? After averaging 2 per game?

How many other players have played next to Justin and had 33.5 sacks in 2 years? How many other players have their been in NFL history who were as good as Justin and had a guy next to him have 33.5 sacks over his first 2 seasons?

Look...Justin is really good and there is no doubt that his presence is beneficial to Aldon, but the way people write off a guy who has more sacks through his first 2 seasons than Reggie White and Derrick Thomas is rediculous.

Justin is DAMN good....but he isn't so good that he can make an average player break all time records.

And yet the plain fact of the matter is that Aldon Smith's production nose-dived after Justin Smith got injured. He continued to play at a high level after tearing his labrum but did not after losing his teammate. Like it or not, until Aldon proves that he can do it without Justin, it's a legitimate criticism.

RolandDeschain wrote:Marvin, regardless of whatever you say, Aldon had good sack numbers after getting his injury while Justin was still playing, then when Justin went out, he hit a cold streak of getting none for what, 5 straight games through the Super Bowl? After averaging 2 per game?

Yes....his didn't get another sack after Justin got hurt. Trust me, I've heard it 1000 times. So has Aldon

Are the two connected? Of course they are. Teams double and even triple teamed Aldon in those games. He was also playing hurt. Its not a matter of Justin being the sole reason for Aldons success, its an issue of nobody else in the injury depleted front 7 forcing teams to account for other guys while double and triple teaming Aldon. Thats some of the reason why RJF and Sopoaga are gone. Thats why they took a DE in the second round and an OLB in the 3rd round and its a good thing they get Parys Haralson back after being out all last year.

Heres the thing tho....he never stopped getting pressure. He pressured Wilson several times and Wilson did what Wilson does and eluded half the D. Brady got rid of the ball in a blink and then started snapping the ball every 25 seconds so the D couldn't even breathe let alone rush (and I'm thinking teams are going to start doing that alot more this year). Even then, Aldon crushed Brady right at the release several times and intercepted a pass.

He pressured Rodgers several times and CRUSHED Ryan. He completely OWNED the LT on one play jacking him into Ryan and it was a miracle that Ryan was able to get the ball off incomplete.

Aldon didn't get any sacks after Justin was hurt, but it is incorrect to say he wasn't productive. Oh..and BTW...Justin was BACK in the playoffs. He only missed 2.5 games.

Another thing that people don't seem to understand is that on 3rd downs Aldon doesn't play next to Justin....he plays on the opposite side of the formation.

Finally...the players in the NFL ranked Aldon SEVENTH in the entire NFL. You can say all you want about how it's flawed and players are ranked too high or too low....but the fact that the PLAYERS ranked him that high should tell you something. The players who have to face him put him there. No player has ever in the 30+ years that the stat has been tracked had as many sacks through 2 seasons as Aldon. NOBODY. There are alot of players who played next to some other great players...yet NOBODY has done that. I'm not trying to make the argument that Aldon is the best defender in the NFL because I think that's JJ Watt...and I don't think Aldon is the best defender on his OWN TEAM....but to dismiss him as an average player who is "made" by a guy who had 3.5 sacks last year is simply ludicrous.

Nobody's saying Aldon is worthless on his own. Everyone's wondering just how much of an impact Justin has on him, is all. Non-49ers fans look at the evidence and think "quite a bit", 49ers fans look in the mirror and think "very little".

RolandDeschain wrote:Nobody's saying Aldon is worthless on his own. Everyone's wondering just how much of an impact Justin has on him, is all. Non-49ers fans look at the evidence and think "quite a bit", 49ers fans look in the mirror and think "very little".

Well...that may be what YOU are saying, but I've had other conversation with fans of other teams who pretty much say he's a fraud.

RolandDeschain wrote:Nobody's saying Aldon is worthless on his own. Everyone's wondering just how much of an impact Justin has on him, is all. Non-49ers fans look at the evidence and think "quite a bit", 49ers fans look in the mirror and think "very little".

Well...that may be what YOU are saying, but I've had other conversation with fans of other teams who pretty much say he's a fraud.

People take the Justin Smith got hurt thing and just run with it.

That's called FEAR Marvin. It helps those people to sleep at night while trying to feel more confident about their chances next season than they should be. Writing off any player on either the Hawks or Niners is going to be ill advised...and just plain stupid!

Basically the same as saying that Seattles defense is overrated because they weren't able to stop the Falcons on their last drive of their divisional game last year with their season on the line.

Last edited by NinerLifer on Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

DISCLAIMER:

The trash talking that I do occasionally this week is strictly for gamesmanship between opposing fanbases as a result of our upcoming matchup this week on SNF. It by no means should be taken personally.

RolandDeschain wrote:With having to face Russell Wilson's scrambling ability twice per year, I'm not so sure about that. I'll be curious to see how he plays this season.

Wilson is a talent. A D LIne has to play solid throughout the line for them to have a chance to stop Wilson. It's critical for the DT to have push up the middle and for a DE to close off the escape routes. Still, Wilson can escape to the other side if the other half of the D Line lose contain. With another year in Pete's system, I think any defense that will want to put pressure on Wilson via Blitz is playing russian roulette, and he'll just hit the hot reciever time and time again. I think the only way to play Wilson is a basic 4 man rush, and contain him, and play good coverage on the backside. Even then, he'll still make plays though.

Giedi wrote:With another year in Pete's system, I think any defense that will want to put pressure on Wilson via Blitz is playing russian roulette, and he'll just hit the hot reciever time and time again. I think the only way to play Wilson is a basic 4 man rush, and contain him, and play good coverage on the backside. Even then, he'll still make plays though.

True that. I actually can't wait to see what defenses try and do to contain Wilson. This is a large part of why I love football. To quote Denzel Washington from Training Day, "The ****'s chess, it ain't checkers!" So many possibilities, variables, guesswork, etc. going on at any given moment on the field. Love it.

RolandDeschain wrote:With having to face Russell Wilson's scrambling ability twice per year, I'm not so sure about that. I'll be curious to see how he plays this season.

Wilson is a talent. A D LIne has to play solid throughout the line for them to have a chance to stop Wilson. It's critical for the DT to have push up the middle and for a DE to close off the escape routes. Still, Wilson can escape to the other side if the other half of the D Line lose contain. With another year in Pete's system, I think any defense that will want to put pressure on Wilson via Blitz is playing russian roulette, and he'll just hit the hot reciever time and time again. I think the only way to play Wilson is a basic 4 man rush, and contain him, and play good coverage on the backside. Even then, he'll still make plays though.

RolandDeschain wrote:With having to face Russell Wilson's scrambling ability twice per year, I'm not so sure about that. I'll be curious to see how he plays this season.

Wilson is a talent. A D LIne has to play solid throughout the line for them to have a chance to stop Wilson. It's critical for the DT to have push up the middle and for a DE to close off the escape routes. Still, Wilson can escape to the other side if the other half of the D Line lose contain. With another year in Pete's system, I think any defense that will want to put pressure on Wilson via Blitz is playing russian roulette, and he'll just hit the hot reciever time and time again. I think the only way to play Wilson is a basic 4 man rush, and contain him, and play good coverage on the backside. Even then, he'll still make plays though.

Trying to tackle Wilson is frustrating to watch.

Wilson is one QB I don't think you try to completely stop. I think you contain and limit, but your own QB has to perform as good or better and outscore Wilson. In other words, he's going to win games by himself, unless he's faced with another QB just as good as he is. Great mobility, very good arm, and he has pass catchers that can catch. Like the Greatest Show on Turf offense, you don't completely stop those kinds of offenses, you have to outscore them.

RolandDeschain wrote:I can't help it. I have to troll the resident 49ers fans. Don't take it personally, guys. Wilson's ability to scramble around and just sidestep pursuers is ridiculous, haha.

For any mobile QB, it's not the ones that he sees thats a danger to him, it's the ones that he doesn't see. Blindside hits have put a lot of QB's out of action for quite a while and that can happen to any QB scrambling around. Safer to get out of bounds and live another day. But yeah, the Wilsons, the Vicks, the Cunninghams - if you have the gift of scramble, you can turn a lot of broken plays into big yardage. The key to keeping a QB healthy (whether he can scramble or not) really is a good O Line and an all pro left tackle.