People draw differently, they use different tools, they draw different styles, they draw different subject matter. For me personally, I find images with organic shapes vastly easier and faster than images with lots of technical shapes, straight lines, precise angles, etc.

My personal art hero, Faith Hicks, drew 188 pages of comics in 2016 (largely black and white), working full time and without any vacations, and years of experience. Some people are able to draw more, some people less. I don't know very many people who do composition with 3d modeling and 2d drawing at the same time, but I'm not sure how easy it is to make direct comparisons on the difficulty and time requirements.

If Arioch ever decides to go full time on Outsider, I'll be wishing him well. It's not an easy thing to do.

Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:55 pm

dex drako

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:37 amPosts: 62

Re: Page 120!

Whale wrote:

So, there was some discussion and criticism about the comic on another forum earlier, and although I have a vague feeling these points may have come up here before, I believe there's stuff worth discussing here. Thoughts/comments?

these people fundamentally misunderstand the point of this comic.

as already stated the story is not about humanity its about Alex alone, but even beyond that they seem to miss the foreshadowing the story has laid out. one of the Bigger hints being Alex will develop more powers then just telepathically invisibility as we saw he could precise fire-blade before he woke up. this will likely come into play in finding the ship the took out alex's ship and help the loroi find the ships getting past their farseers

Plus, I don't understand how someone can say this is uninteresting. I love the enormous amount of worldbuilding that went into this project; it's engrossing and, in many aspects, better than most other sci-fi worlds. And sure, everybody would love faster updates, but whining about it and accusing the author of laziness is just disgusting, entitled whining. You're getting quality stuff for free, so you're entitled to nothing (as Frank Underwood would say). Impatient fans' temper tantrums help nobody, especially not the motivation of the author.

Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:52 am

harlequin2262

Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:08 pmPosts: 60

Re: Page 120!

What is an artist that doesn't produce art? What is a writer that doesn't write? What is a fundamentally episodic format, when it releases episodes at a functionally nonexistent pace?

I wouldn't say it's a function of laziness, but the story is basically stalled, barring a faster pace. It's hard to engage with a text when more or less nothing's happened for 2 years.

Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:00 am

Krulle

Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 2:14 amPosts: 512

Re: Page 120!

That all may be.Well, it still doesn't bother me.I still get to read a webcomic for free.And, compared to 6-comando and Unsounded, this story set-up and art-style attracts me.Unsounded art looks simpler and faster to draw, and at elast the first pages I read seem to have a much simpler colouring than Outsider.6-commando is by art also less "clean".

I want to read Outsider, and since the author doesn't have more time to make Outsider faster, this is the speed I'll be receiving it.And yes, I already made a rough calculation when the last chapter will be drawn, and I don't like that forecast either.

I had another good comic I liked die, because the author made an effort and started drawing faster.Then he got RSI and had to stop completely.

I have to disagree with you re: Unsounded. Ashley Cope's skills are amazing, and there are a lot of comics within Unsounded (especially the newer stuff) that present extremely complicated drawings with complicated color schemes. Her art and color schemes have also improved dramatically from the start; while they were already better than 90% of webcomics at the start, by now they match up and exceed the quality you can find in graphic novels produced by French or American production studios.

The difference in "time it takes to produce a page" could be attributed to the fact that Outsider relies on computer assisted graphics...

But this is overall a pointless argument.

Media are not measured by their production speed -- otherwise GRRM would be significantly poorer, the movie industry would be going for lower rather than higher production values, and Netflix would have been defeated by the once-a-week seasonal TV show format years ago. We humans measure our media by their impact, in the form of how they affected our emotions, how visually attractive they are, and how much of our attention they attract. And in those areas, Outsider continues to succeed, regardless of production time.

And because of that, there is little point in comparing Outsider to other successful webcomics. We aren't valuing it because its timely; we value it because we enjoy it.

If it takes a few months to produce a new comic page, so what? Being impatient at Arioch certainly isn't going to help. He makes money on a per page basis, for crying out loud; I'm pretty sure he'd produce faster if he had time to.

Personally, I don't mind if it takes time to produce an Outsider page, as long as its still the top-quality stuff it has been so far.

Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:42 pm

sunphoenix

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:46 amPosts: 957Location: Indianapolis, IN

Re: Page 120!

Arioch wrote:

Whale wrote:

So, there was some discussion and criticism about the comic on another forum earlier, and although I have a vague feeling these points may have come up here before, I believe there's stuff worth discussing here. Thoughts/comments?

Alex is the protagonist of the story (not Humanity as a whole). In the early going, he's a fairly passive protagonist, and the only decisions he can make are how to react to events that are entirely out of his control. This does serve a narrative purpose; when there is a new and alien world that must be explained to the reader, it's a useful tool to have the protagonist learn as the reader learns. While the protagonist is still clueless about his surroundings, he's not going to be a very effective agent for driving the plot, and so often his actions are restricted in the early going... you can see this pattern used in worldbuilding-heavy stories like Gulliver's Travels, Shogun, or even Lord of the Rings. As the protagonist gets his footing in this new world, he has more opportunities to make meaningful decisions that drive the plot.

Alex's role as a representative of Humanity can be compared to Frodo's role as a representative of the Hobbits (if you will pardon the impertinence of such a comparison); Frodo is largely isolated from his own nation for most of the story, and the Shire is something he must work to protect, rather than expect help from. Anyone who was trying to work out how the Hobbit armies were going to play a decisive military role in the War of the Ring was barking up the wrong tree.

I have thus far only read up to this point... but I'm commenting anyways.

I indeed see Arioch's point here. In my opinion... I think the REAL story has indeed Alex as a protagonist... we are just in the intro to the players of the universe... the Real plot is who benefits from the Loroi-Umiak war? Neither side know who actually fired the first shoot Though it was obvious the Umiak were planing to launch a full scale invasion at some point anyways. The mystery is who did not want humanity to contact either the Umiak or the Loroi.. who destroyed the Bellarmarine.. and Why do they fear humanity contacting either species. Clearly ...there is some distant genetic convergence between the Loroi and humans.. we are physically simply too similar in the overall cosmic randomness of space for us to be so similar. Also mankind has always had a deep seated fear of 'bugs'. Pop-culture SciFi fantasy aside... the more we learn about insects the less we like them... in most cases. Now I understand Umiak are more like perhaps crabs than actual insects... but the pop-culture has always painted insect creatures as mankind's mortal enemies. We don't get that reaction with great hunting cats and they are a more credible danger to primitive man.. so why bugs? I do believe someone has orchestrated the Loroi/Umiak war for some sinister purpose and our protagonist Alex is the monkey-wrench in those plans somehow! Perhaps with how adaptable, damned curious, and open-minded we humans can be on occasion we are the natural arbiters to possible hammer out a peace between the Umiak and Loroi? I also cannot shake the feeling humans being psi-blind "lotai" is a potent plot point.. there is a reason for that and its somehow associated with the Loroi ~ specifically.

And I'm CERTAIN the Historians are tied into this plot in some fashion... there is certainly a third actor in this space opera who is keeping themselves Very hidden.

the Real plot is who benefits from the Loroi-Umiak war? [...] who did not want humanity to contact either the Umiak or the Loroi [...] who destroyed the Bellarmarine [...] and Why do they fear humanity contacting either species.

Don't worry, we've got our best man on the job.

On that note. Is a loroi Alex Jones even possible? Or is his manly physique more of a Barsam archetype?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:41 am

GeoModder

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:31 amPosts: 611

Re: Page 120!

A new page!

I'm not sure I get the exact meaning of the following line on the last panel (non-native English speaker here).

Quote:

"It occured to me -- a moment too late -- that I was probably doing more by this to teach her English than I was to teach myself Trade."

Does Alex mean he subconsciously goes on with the lesson in order to give Beryl an introduction to English and its alphabet, or does he mean Beryl probably got more out of this 'class' regarding the English language then vice-versa him on Trade alphabet?

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Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:47 am

dragoongfa

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:00 pmPosts: 1175Location: Athens, Greece

Re: Page 120!

I am certain that it is the later, Beryl remembers everything and as thus seeing Alex write down the English equivalent of their Trade alphabet has given her a very solid head start in learning the language once proper 'lessons' begin.

About the whole updates thing, am I the only one who actually likes rare and irregular updates?

I mean, I sort of read a number of regularly updated webcomics, some of them with updates every day. I must say that an Outsider update brings me much more joy compared to a large number of updates of a regularly updated webcomic.

Furthermore, the relatively low update rate forces a certain level of information density within each page. In Outsider, a very large percentage of pages are actually important.

Next, there's the community aspect. A whole lot of worldbuilding happened in this and previous forum. I have a feeling that, if the comic would be updating all the time, there would be much less time for endless over-analyses and speculations which we currently have in the forum.

Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:50 am

Absalom

Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:33 pmPosts: 696

Re: Page 120!

boldilocks wrote:

Don't worry, we've got our best man on the job.

Not only does he look like he's in on the joke without actually understanding it, if he was a bit more careful that thing could have looked like a chef's hat. Outstanding. Now I want to hear him raving about tomato neurotoxins turning us into... something or another (brine shrimp? Seems suitable non-sequitur).

Quote:

On that note. Is a loroi Alex Jones even possible? Or is his manly physique more of a Barsam archetype?

Probably Barsam, Delrias, or maybe (darkhorse) Mannadi, but I suspect his persona is purely Umiak or Arekka.

AndrejaKo wrote:

About the whole updates thing, am I the only one who actually likes rare and irregular updates?

I mean, I sort of read a number of regularly updated webcomics, some of them with updates every day. I must say that an Outsider update brings me much more joy compared to a large number of updates of a regularly updated webcomic.

Furthermore, the relatively low update rate forces a certain level of information density within each page. In Outsider, a very large percentage of pages are actually important.

I would like to speak against this, but I suspect that both Sluggy Freelance and Schlock Mercenary could condense content to a noticeable extent without suffering.

Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:36 pm

Sweforce

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:00 pmPosts: 357

Re: Page 120!

boldilocks wrote:

sunphoenix wrote:

the Real plot is who benefits from the Loroi-Umiak war? [...] who did not want humanity to contact either the Umiak or the Loroi [...] who destroyed the Bellarmarine [...] and Why do they fear humanity contacting either species.

Don't worry, we've got our best man on the job.

On that note. Is a loroi Alex Jones even possible? Or is his manly physique more of a Barsam archetype?

AN annoying barsam "journalist", sure go for that. We do know that they can express anger!

Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:42 am

Arent

Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:42 pmPosts: 43

Re: Page 120!

Whale wrote:

So, there was some discussion and criticism about the comic on another forum earlier, and although I have a vague feeling these points may have come up here before, I believe there's stuff worth discussing here. Thoughts/comments?

1 wrote:

I remember Outsider really bothering me because... There's basically absolutely nothing the protagonists can actually do. The only thing the humans have to offer either side is... Being invisible to telepathy, which is of theoretically great value to the Umiak but not at all to the Loroi... And which the Umiak may have already cracked on their own given how the Loroi just started getting ambushed when their Psi-auguries mysteriously fail. I kept reading mainly to see what sort of development would happen on that score, see whether there is anything at all that makes humans valuable enough to merit being the protagonists, but as of three years ago (which is, what, five pages? Ten given how the author's updated since then?), there was nothing at all.

I somehow get the impression they are more complaining about the lack of updates than the actual story.

It is true that I can't imagine right now how the "antimagic" ability of the humans might factor into the story.But who knows? Humans might have even more talents that have not been covered yet or even serve as"enhancer" of the abilities of the Loroi in one way or the other.

I just CAN'T WAIT for Beryl to start learning English spelling rules. I'm Russian (Belarussian actually, but it's practically the same thing) so here is how it was for me:- Wait, why do they have "C" that may sound like "K" or "S" if they already have both these letters in a divided format?! Why do they even have it then?!- Wait, the "e" isn't spelled if it's in the end of a word?!- Wait, why the "y" sounds like "ee"? We already have "i" that sounds like "ee"!- Wait, the "I" pronounced as "ee" in "sin", but as "ai" in "mile"?!And many, MANY MORE. But it's 1:07 in the morning and I want to sleep.It's not even the rules that are scary it's how many exceptions to these rules there is.Long story short: I never learned them! Instead I had to memorize how each word is written and how it's spelled. SEPARATELY. Like I was learning some sort of Chinese characters and not words that are written with alphabet.This is why I have problems trying to transliterate words. Even the native speakers didn't know how to pronounce: Loroi or Laroi?That's even more painful to me, since Russian alphabet, despite it's sounds are hard to pronounce for you, is very univocal when it comes to spelling. Meaning, if you see a letter "i" in a word, it will always sound like "ee". Just like in Trade. So, theoretically, if Beryl wouldn't be a recorder she is, she would have a really hard time just trying to accept the fact that letters don't always sound the same (Just like I did).

Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:12 pm

CrimsonFALKE

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:31 pmPosts: 156Location: Tallmadge Ohio

Re: Page 120!

Arioch wrote:

Whale wrote:

So, there was some discussion and criticism about the comic on another forum earlier, and although I have a vague feeling these points may have come up here before, I believe there's stuff worth discussing here. Thoughts/comments?

Alex is the protagonist of the story (not Humanity as a whole). In the early going, he's a fairly passive protagonist, and the only decisions he can make are how to react to events that are entirely out of his control. This does serve a narrative purpose; when there is a new and alien world that must be explained to the reader, it's a useful tool to have the protagonist learn as the reader learns. While the protagonist is still clueless about his surroundings, he's not going to be a very effective agent for driving the plot, and so often his actions are restricted in the early going... you can see this pattern used in worldbuilding-heavy stories like Gulliver's Travels, Shogun, or even Lord of the Rings. As the protagonist gets his footing in this new world, he has more opportunities to make meaningful decisions that drive the plot.

Alex's role as a representative of Humanity can be compared to Frodo's role as a representative of the Hobbits (if you will pardon the impertinence of such a comparison); Frodo is largely isolated from his own nation for most of the story, and the Shire is something he must work to protect, rather than expect help from. Anyone who was trying to work out how the Hobbit armies were going to play a decisive military role in the War of the Ring was barking up the wrong tree.

No the hobbits didn't play a military role but the hobbits you named did have a key role in the front line after going deep behind enemy lines. Will we see Alex preforming in some similar role?

I just CAN'T WAIT for Beryl to start learning English spelling rules. [...] So, theoretically, if Beryl wouldn't be a recorder she is, she would have a really hard time just trying to accept the fact that letters don't always sound the same (Just like I did).

I've never been this hyped for an English lesson. It could very easily feel as though he's screwing with her, when he starts teaching her all the exceptions for individual words, so it will be a small test of her trust in him.

_________________

Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:12 pm

Jayngfet

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:22 pmPosts: 53

Re: Page 120!

Then of course you have the fact that while English is most likley the most common operational language thanks to rules probably grandfathered in from modern aerospace, there's still a whole lot more languages whereas literally all three whole Loroi planets speak just the one language and a few dialects.