CBS have provided a couple of higher res images from Amok Time Remastered

Original Versions:it is noteworthy that CBS are (for the first time) replacing live action shots with CGI shots. CBS do point out that the walk to the arena and the arena establishing shot do not have any dialog.

Inspiration:CBS’s bit of ‘retro continuity’ takes inspiration from the TAS episode "Yesteryear" as well as the film Star Trek III: The Search For Spock.

From the CBS Press Release:

The digitally-remastered "Amok Time" features two new visual effects matte paintings. Each shows Spock’s homeworld of Vulcan with greater scope and grandeur than was possible when the episode was first produced in 1967. These paintings depict a forbidding desertscape of spectacular beauty, capturing the ancient mysticism of Spock’s Vulcan ancestors. Sharp-eyed fans might glimpse the desert city of Shi’Khar in the background of one of the paintings. Shi’Khar, where Spock grew up, was first seen in the 1973 animated Star Trek episode, "Yesteryear." These new shots were produced at CBS Digital, and were painted by matte artist Max Gabl under the direction of visual effects supervisor Niel Wray.

Comments

I hope they at least keep the beaming down scene from the live footage, and then it can cut to the new CGI. I wonder, If the beam down goes, does that mean they will be altering the sound track by taking out the transporter noise?

I wonder if the scene could have started with the original live-action and then somehow slowly panned out to show the wider CGI shot; so you could still have both elements in most of the shot. Just a thought, though.

BTW, is anyone else remided of that Medieval Times scene from the movie Cable Guy, when they see this episode?

I love the areana being perched high atop some mountaintop. It just adds to the ancient “tradition” that Vulcans seem to love . And a great move by CBS to explain away why there is no horizon visible. Creativve thinking for sure….glad to see this show is in safe hands.

While I agree that the new shots are excellent, I cannot in any way agree with removing established shots. I would have liked to have seen this new stuff IN ADDITION TO existing live-action scenes, rather than wholesale “replacement”…

That’s the thing about canon, it was never mentioned in the original script and it was never mentioned until the abomination that is TAS was written.

To incorporate items from a poorly done 70’s Filmation episode is a bit of a reach.

I realize that “Yesteryear” was penned by our beloved D.C. Fontana, but I don’t consider it canon to the original Trek.

Let’s face it, back then, some people were really reaching, to have any incarnation of Trek. I remember those days and I remember how bad the cartoon was. I have since went back and tried to watch it and the show makes me giggle. It was just so poorly done and such a joke.

I just hope they do not continue this trend.

I remember the threads against this at trekbbs and I can see where to much alteration can be a bad thing.

Canon….shmanon. Why not inch closer to “legitimizing” some, if not all, of TAS? Beautiful job CBS Digital! I love that you care enough to blend the various eras of Trek. In a handful of new work, you’ve found a balance between the visual styles of TOS, TAS and the movies. Brilliant! (And on top of that, the positioning of the ritual site on top of a mountain helps, at least partially, give the look of the soundstage set some credibility.)

I am one that has made an exception (or addition) to the Canon ‘rules’ for the TAS episode “Yesteryear”. It is easily the best episode of TAS.

Adding this matte artwork to the ep was an excellent idea. The photos above look great. Unfortunately, I don’t expect to enjoy it as much on TV. Chopping up the episode for airplay and more commercials is annoying and unacceptable. Seriously, it really has helped ruin my enjoyment of the remastered eps.

Canon this, canon that… it’s not the issue. Nobody is saying that TAS is canon by incorparating elements from it into other incarnations of ST, even TOS. They are merely acknowledging that certain elements IN the animated series are worth keeping and using for a little more continuity.

Just becuase we see a city called ShiKhar that looks like the one in the animated series doesn’t automatically assume that everything shown in the series actually happened. It’s not meant to infer that. Just, here’s something cool that we saw, let’s use THAT ELEMENT and make it canon NOW.

I love the idea of elevating the ancient family ceremonial grounds like the temples in ST3. It makes it seem more special and “sacred.” I also understand doing it to make sense of the lack of background in the arena. But, the spotty lighting on the red background always jerks me out of the reality and forces me to say “look at that red backdrop” instead of seeing it as a red sky. I know they can’t rotoscope each scene to make it right… I just wish they could make it a little more real at the top edges where nothing obscures it.

Oh well, we gotm ore out of this than we ever dreamed we would, so I’m happy!

Star Trek’s continuity is one of its greatest strengths. In fact, I’m hard pressed to think of a successful science fiction series that didn’t respect its own Canon. Farscape, X-Files, Babylon 5, etc. Canon shouldn’t be disregarded wholesale.

But just as “The Menagerie” made “The Cage” Canon, adding the matte artwork to “Amok Time” makes it Canon now, even if it was not before. I happen to have always considered “Yesteryear” Canon.

Can we just agree its Canon now and not turn the entire thread into a Canon vs. “Canon Sucks” pissing contest…just for this one thread?

It’s a matter of trust. Of Team Okuta feels they have enough proprietory rights to tweak a visual to include something mentioned in TAS, we should give them the right to do that. If they totally blow it:
A) Grab your lirpa!
B) We still and always will have the originals.
It’s wrong to tie the hands of any creative person just because someone has an ever-changing idea of what’s canon.
Trek lives. Change is the essential of life.

I just wish they would be bold enough to do this with some of the view screen shots when we see an Alien ship from far off. Maybe replace some of the looking out the main view screens with a better close up of the ship. For example “Fridays Child” would have been cool if they dropped one of the far off shots through the main view screen to an Over the shoulder shot of the Klingon ship with the Enterprise far off in the distance.

They could have also done something like that with the Gorn ship as well. That way the Ship isn’t ever revealed to the crew close up just to the audience.

“I love the areana being perched high atop some mountaintop. It just adds to the ancient “tradition” that Vulcans seem to love . And a great move by CBS to explain away why there is no horizon visible. Creativve thinking for sure….glad to see this show is in safe hands. ”

Amen to that!!! A very good solution to the “problem” of the horizon. Great work CBS!!!

The creator of a certain Sci Fi series that becaome a full length motion picture once said…. “You can’t change elements of your original theme and history, or you are really going to piss of your core audiance.” That’s a relative paraphrase from the creator of “Serenity.” I think he has the right idea.

When you go back and start playing with an established history, you confuse and piss off your target audiance.

This is one of the primary reasons “Enterprise” was such a failure, especially amongst hard core fans, not so much the “Buffy” crowd.

Sure, I’m for redoing TAS, but TAS and TOS are two different animals, let’s keep it that way. Let’s not start confusing the history and muddying the waters with cross overs and “Fanboy” references to other Treks and episodes.

It gets tedious after awhile.

As I’ve stated, I’ve been for this endeavor for some time, but don’t start changing the original.

A more worthy use of the talents involved would be to add some depth to the scenery of Vulcan, but a quickie, throw away shot and silent nod to TAS, is a waste of time and effort.

You can like TAS all you want, but it’s crap. A re-imagined version might be worthy of some thought and consideration, but as it stands, it’s crap.

There are only four eps worth mentioning and I’m not sure “Yesteryear” is among them. IMNHO, BTFS is the best of the bunch. At least it wasn’t some lame return to a previous episode.

If anything is worth finishing, or doing right it would have to be “The Secret of Vulcan Fury.” Now THAT had some potential.

All the remastered episodes to date look great to me, and “Amok Time” is no exception. I’m still amazed how just a few seconds of newly created effects and background mattes can really improve on the original story.

Because the CBS CGI team is confined and limited to creating new effects that will fit the original time parameters of each episode, they are forced to choose only the best possible ways to improve on each episode. So far I’ve been impressed with both their restraint from not going overboard with these new effects, as well as the good choices they are making to improve each episode.

My only gripe is that I wish the newly remastered Enterprise had the same blueish tint and shiny hull that the original had. I think someone there at CBS really likes the color- battleship gray! The Enterprise wasn’t made out of steel ya know!!

I have to chime in here. Awesome screen shots and I love the city in the background. As for the whole debate on cannon with TAS that was starting to make my blood boil. TAS was intended to be cannon initially and for a long time Gene Roddenberry even said so. It wasn’t until Next Gen game out that he started to consider changing his toon. I watch TAS and I look at it in one way and one way only. IT’S A CARTOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How good do you think it is going to be? Argh you make my chest hurt. Cartoons are written for children, yes children. Heaven forbid they might have less quality that live action shows intended for adults. God my stomach is turning. It is a cartoon people cut it a break. City looks great in the background and Robert April was on the Enterprise before Pike. Enough Said

So if DC Fontana writes a letter to her Aunt Bertha, then does that become canon? *Just Kidding* really :) I know it isn’t funny. Sorry…. I think.

38. Mysterious Stranger
Just pretend the city is some other city then, disregarding whether or not it appeared in Yesteryear. I’m sure the city will not be mentioned by name in Amok Time Remastered, so if you want to pretend it is Detroit, then go ahead.

I can see it being anything and I can see it being a plausible city and is indeed a beautiful addition. Sorry, I just cringe at the thought that it is related to TAS.

I’m a big D.C. Fontana fan and absolutely believe that she is a major reason that trek worked, the way it did.

D.C.’s rewrite of COTEOF is a tribute to her writing skills and developement of the TOS characters. The fact that Roddenberry took credit for that episode and that Ellison makes to end of ranting about the rewrite and D.C. has pretty much let the whole thing go is a testimony to her depth of character.

I just don’t want to see the two separate entities merged. Let TOS be TOS and let TAS be TAS.

I happen to like TAS and TOS and find they fit well together. I think it was great incorporating it here and tying the two together. I am sure that if they had the means in the 60’s, Gene would have loved to do something like CBSD is doing now. It’s great to see Trek being remastered… I can’t wait for the DVDs to come out so I can actually see an episode. Until then, I will have to be content seeing the pics, previews and effects reel here. Thanks Trekmovie.com and thanks CBD D from a diehard, long time Trek fan…

To compare TAS and TOS is like comparing Pinnochio and Stalin
To compare TAS and TOS is like comparing eggs and cashews
To compare TAS and TOS is like comparing fish and calcium
To compare TAS and TOS is like comparing Spacely Sprockets and Cogswell Cogs.

I love the city myself and thoroughly applaud the effects team. I, too, was hoping for this kind of re-working to enhance Star Trek when I first heard of the remastering.

Here’s a question for you all re: canon. For me, there are episodes I love and some that I wish had never been filmed. Most of the third season. Gamesters of Triskellion. The Apple. I could go on. Some of them are weak, and some are flat out ludicrous compared to the others — characters speak and act in ways that are out of character with the way they behave in the majority of other episodes. I know that I avoid these episodes and rather wish that they’d never been filmed, even if there are some nice character side-scenes in some.

Instead of worrying about canon, I just hope that this remastering and any future reboot or prequel movie reuses the good ideas and the highest standards of quality and distances itself from the bad. (My point being, nice job lifting a good idea from Yesteryear.)

Ye Gods, but the first season of STNG was such a crashing disappointment to me I never really watched it again–it felt like the standard of quality for it was based on Spock’s Brain… And I really, really, really wanted to like it.

Wow. The image from ST III is still the loveliest composition of the bunch. . . but ShiKar rocks! Great job, CBS.

Dennis, as one who prizes the use of language above all else, thanks for the link. That Trek had something that amounted to a self-consistent background was one of its original strengths, and greatly added to the sense of an alternate ‘reality’ (as did Tolkein’s obsession with imaginary detail did with Lord of the Rings–but taken too far, this obsession with what constitutes ‘canon’ is just ridiculous. I’m firmly convinced, in fact, that much of Trek’s creative difficulty during the last few years came from the franchise literally being crushed by the weight of its own collective history over hundreds of hours of filmed story. . . and that the best way forward is just what’s happening: a prequel that will clear the way for fun and excitement by looking at the classic characters and situations with fresh eyes. Abrams will need a fair amount of luck to pull it off, but right now concentrating on the drama and less on ‘canon’ is Trek’s best shot to make it back.

True, just tipping a hat to TAS by using the city in NO WAY means they or anyone else is considering the show canon. They are using an element, and that hurts no-one. It thrills some. If you hate the animated show, does that mean that ANY AND ALL elements from it are anathema? No.

With that interpretation, some should have screamed when ST:TMP had two doors on the bridge, or named ships heard referred to that were from the FJ Tech Manual.

Also, there was a big sister planet in the skies of Yesteryear, and we saw it again in ST:TMP, until the CGI upgrade removed it.

So just importing a little from it in miniscule ways does not mean SUDDENLY: it’s canon!

So, let us people that enjoyed it, get a small kick out of seeing some small references to it in “real” Trek… OK?

Love the addition, of the TOS Trek movie shot, but the TAS pic just makes me cringe. Sorry, a cartoon should not be inspiration for a re-imagining an original work of art……. it’s like DaVinci taking notes from a cubist Picasso.

BTW, all the TAS haters who pale at the thought of seeing a reference to it such as this… You must really resent hearing “Tiberious” as Kirk’s middle name.. because it was never spoken onscreen until TAS!

You’ll have to just settle for “R,” after all it IS canon. It was seen, not just heard, therefore MUST be true.

This episode, like “Journey To Babel,” and “The Doomsday Machine,” boasts some of the best music in the series. It is incredible in it’s own right. The fight scene score is legend, evidenced by being reference in popular culture like “Futurama” and “Cable Guy.”

A personal note that some will laugh at… when I was in my early teens in the 70’s, I would tape on cassette every ST episode I could get. The music takes on much more meaning when you are listening to audiotapes many times later.

I would take the tape player out in the yard, and me and a friend would literally act out the fight on Vulcan to the tape as it played! We had it down pat. Then, the mother of my friend saw us, and she became the typical member of “Mothers Against Star Trek” and got all “concerned” that we were “obsessing” over a TV show to the “extent that we were acting it out as if it were real,” and junk. She complained to my parents, and they acted all stupid, sitting us down to explain “Star Track (sic) is just a TV show, and not to be confused with reality” Can you believe it?

These new shots are Freaking Fantastic!!!!! Way to go people a CBS-Digital. I think The Great Bird Of The Galaxy world be proud of your endeavers. You have put a lot of thought into bringing elements from other Star Trek productions and as a huge fan of all the Star Trek product that Paramount/CBS put out, I feel fully entertained by your enhancement of one of the greatest shows ever made. You have made Amok Time look almost epic. I wish you could do something on the live action sets though with those fake looking studio sky/horizon pack drops though.
Please keep it up. Have any of the original directors,production crew or actors of the original show been contacted for their input into these re-mastered episodes? It almost looks like there is some input other than the Okuda Dynamic Duo and Rossi.

If it is OK to Change canon, them why not make everything canon, that’s where this is headed. All things in the books are canon, all things in the Gold Key comics are canon, all FF is canon, slash is canon, everything is OK, all things are acceptable.

If you live your life like that and believe that any change that comes along is acceptable, then there are no standards, there is no definition.

When you begin accepting that it’s OK to change any aspect of Trek and just because it’s on the big screen, or the small screen it’s canon, then you destroy the original. You morph what was and is into somethng that can be morphed by anyone who has a hand in it, thus changing it forever into something it was not and something it was never meant to be.

I understand the “Buffy” crowd going for this, but for self important, pseudo intellectuals, to say that it’s OK to turn Trek into anything….. Well, I stand by my original statements. Essentially, when you start playing with the history of a given series, movie, or writing and go against everything that is and was established before, then you are corrupting the entire franchise.

I’m not saying that one shot, of one city, is going to kill TOS Trek, what I am saying is that when you start down this road, you’re asking for trouble.

Again, this is precisely why Enterprise was a failure. It twisted and played loosely with a previously established history.

Simple really, but I’m sure that the pseudomites will continue to say, “Let’s just go and fix what aint broke.”

Look at Enterprise, Nemesis, and Insurrection as examples.

What were the best movies? The ones that built on, but did not defy the original themes and history.

Nice shots, but those figures will be almost invisible on TV. They are not doing a movie, and these really need a big screen to be appreciated. Does anybody know if my regular DVD will play on the HD sets, because signals are suppose to go HD and we don’t know if the original version will get an HD release?

As for the nitpicking about the absolute importance of canon, I’m reminded of a remark for which I cannot find attribution but that seems to me self-evident: having exacting standards is not the same as having high standards. Just because someone takes it upon themselves to “rule out” a lot of stuff on some basis or another does not mean that they’re defending quality.

As for “Star Trek: Enterprise…” what that show did or didn’t do as regards established continuity was trivial among the commercial problems that it had. Some tiny percentage of the audience that tuned in initially would have even noticed the alleged “violations.” It failed to hold an audience for many reasons, but this “canon” nonsense was not one of the twenty most important.

Hooray for TOS and TAS and the ST: Original Cast movies! I’m glad for the inclusion of the latter 2 in the Remastered Series. It gives such broader scope. I cherish the TAS script copies and videos (laserdisc and now DVD) that I have. And such thought put into the TAS stories! For my relatives who had seen TAS 30 years ago, I recently played the TAS episode, “Beyond the Farthest Star”, written by Samuel Peeples. The story grew so complex at the end, they were left thinking when the episode ending. Yeah!!! :-)

No. Enterprise was a failure because in the end, it was largely lousy drama. 99+% of the people who could have watched, and didn’t, couldn’t care less whether it tied in with TOS or not.

That said, as someone who’s probably watched Trek longer than you’ve been alive, ‘Mysterious,’ I can assure you that I was probably just as offended as you were in that lousy Enterprise episode when the Romulan ships, supposedly 100 years before Kirk and Spock, had a cloaking device. Such a glaring continuity error was not only unnecessary (the ships’ ability to cloak had little or nothing to do with the plot), but showed (in case there were still any doubts) how little the producers cared at that point about what they had been entrusted with: a franchise that had meant a great deal to millions of people. Still, that’s not why the show tanked.

re: 62-
Your standard definition DVD’s will play fine on a new HDTV. I do it all the time. What will make standard DVD’s even better on an HDTV is an upconvert player that will slightly improve picture resolution. But it won’t be true HD. These players are pretty common and cheap, around $100.00.

I like the continuity and references to TAS and Trek 3. For most of the casual viewers, they won’t know what that city is in the background and if CBS didn’t tell us, I’m sure many here would bet it’s Shi’Khar. This looks great and expands the scope of the episode! Can’t wait to see it in full motion.

To me, the whole thing of Roddenberry claiming TAS is not canon is ridiculous. I distinctly remember him promoting TAS when it came out. It has his name on it…and the writers on it were no slouches either having written many episodes of TOS.

In fact, I bought the DVD set when it came out and watching the episodes, I clearly got the feeling TAS simply as the “fourth season” of TOS.

To me, it’s canon.

There’s been enough mentions of things from TAS in subsequent series that I think it ties in well. And vice versa…in one episode of TAS they mention the Eugenics Wars.

#60 Stranger- “Again, this is precisely why Enterprise was a failure. It twisted and played loosely with a previously established history.”

True, but I think you should include First Contact as one of the movies that screwed with previously established history- FAR MORE than Insurrection did. (And WAS Insurrection guilty of this at all??) B&B spent basically the rest of Voyager explaining the backstories of why the Borg were so suddenly different and patching up narritive holes created by FC.
I fail to see why people treat that movie as such a classic, with its out-of-character acting and plot holes you could drive a truck through.

Exactly. Everyone has their own idea of what “canon” is, and that’s just as it should be. For myself, it’s the material I would consider to be good and enduring–and that could include any of the spinoffs, cartoons, or even novels that I’ve happened to have read and liked (not many). For example, while I’m not a big booster of TAS, I’ll take “Yesteryear” as part of my Star Trek continuity, even though it’s basically a kids’ show, any day over TOS offerings like “And the Children Shall Lead” or “Spock’s Brain.”

Ted Sturgeon, author of this week’s great episode, once upon a time coined his famous Law of Shlock Therapy, which essentially states that “90% of everything is junk.” Since Star Trek was no exception to this rule, “canon” should be everything you personally would include in that other 10%, and nothing else.

I love these images. What would be awesome and I know some may disagree is to cut away from the Kirk/Spock fight scene and insert a shot of the fight via this new arena angle. Show the two squaring away at eachother with cgi figures, then cut back to the fight. We don’t have to take away from the original live elements. Just add the new angle. CBS-D has proven they can nicely blend CGI figures like they did with ‘The Menagerie’. This shot would probably be easier and more effective.

Canon Smannon. Star Trek canon is a myth. A dream. Time to wake up. The dream was over starting with TOS cancellation. Enjoy Star Trek the way you want and to Hell with whiners. There’s a Star Trek for everybody’s taste.

The only continuity problem with First Contact was the Borg Queen character. As annoying as that problem was, it didn’t detract much from the experience or the story, IMO as a TNG fan. IMO, the problem was that it was a contradiction, just as Data said in the movie itself.

I also disagree with whoever it is calling ‘Enterprise’ a failure. It may have been a financial failure in Paramount’s eyes, but that doesn’t mean it ‘failed’. Art does not fail. You either like it, you don’t like it, or you are indifferent.

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill! This certainly isn’t the first TAS reference to be made canon by the movies or later series. For example:

As stated before, mentioning Tiberius as Kirk’s middle name was done first in TAS. It was not mentioned in a live-action Trek until ST: TUC.

Spock’s mother’s maiden name, Grayson, was first mentioned in TAS.

Kor’s ship, the Klothos, was first named in TAS and later “confirmed” in DS9.

There are at least a dozen other direct mentions of TAS in live-action Trek. Obviously, the universe has not come to a crashing end due to them! I’ve always found them to be a rather entertaining nod to the work of many of the same writers and actors who gave us TOS in the first place.

One thing that cracked me up about the “Yesteryear” episode was the Japanese-boy-clothes that the Vulcan kids wore… what were the animators/designers thinking of? The Kids in Shorts reminded me of the kids in the Godzilla/Gamera movies that MST3K loved to rap.

The animated series was not considered canon by Paramount and could not be included in Michael and Denise Okuda’s reference books. However, they made an exception in the case of “Yesteryear” because of its importance to the STAR TREK timeline. So “Yesteryear” was mentioned on pages 29-30 of their STAR TREK Chronology.

TAS was a fun cartoon. It had some really cool ideas in it. And I liked the animation. I have always enjoyed Filmitation cartoons (Flash Gordon, He-Man, etc…) Taking a few ideas from the cartoon that worked and incorporating them into a live show is a good idea.

Don’t forget, that cartoon (Yesteryear) was written by DC Fontana, and it is a very mature story (I remember it winning many awards back in the day). Had the original series continued, I think its safe to say this city would have appeared in an episode.

Also, references from TAS made there way into DS9! That seems pretty ‘cannon’ to me.

All I have to say is great work!!! All this canon stuff is giving me a headache though. If some dislike TAS just ignore it, drop it out of your mind! I found some of the stories on that show fun and interesting. Sure like the original live series it had some bombs. Name a show out there that is perfect! But all I have to say is lately the CBS-D guys are rockin!

What are we talking about? We’re talking about a city…not a world…a city.
City, that’s what we’re talking about…not a world, not a world, a city!
This show is a leader in the series, but we’re talking about a city…not a world, a city!

Has anyone mentioned that “Yesteryear” was supposedly the ONE TAS episode that Roddenberry DID accept as canon? :)

I agree this is a “fascinating” solution to the cyclorama problem, and also if you listen to Gerald Fried’s music for the beamdown sequence, it’s quite spectacular in characterizing the Vulcan landscape, something that would work easily for bigger visuals. Not sure how they’ll handle the transporter sound though–there might be actual sound editing for this.

I had asked the guys at cbsd if they would ever mess with sound and they said it was ‘outside of the scope’ but they have broken some of their own rules before…in fact one could say this episode breaks some, so we will see. We will konw by tomorrow. They may show the beam in and then cut to the matte for the walk to the arena.

of course messing with sound allows for all sorts of new things. I was told one of the reasons they didnt add an explosion for the self destructing romulan ship is because there was no ‘boom’ sound to go along with one…if they start messing with sound then they can start adding all sorts of stuff.

Er…..unless you’re older than my Father, I doubt seriously that you’ve been watching Star Trek longer than I’ve been alive. I saw my first ep during the original run, on NBC, in 67-68.

Regards the rest, it’s a dead subject. I like what I like and will accept what I will accept.

Personally, I like my Captains to be strong, alpha male types and not some watered down, pastel, captain light. I like my women strong spirited, my ships fast and sleek and I like the characters to be real, not some politically correct versions of real men and women.

I want my drama to be hard edged and intelligent, but not pander to some select, fringe group.

Star Trek, does that for me and watching Kirk and Spock battle over a woman is, well, timeless and priceless.

I’ll be sitting on the couch, with my woman, my popcorn and the THX blasting, when this sweet baby hits the local airwaves.

As a purist and with regards to sound enhancement, all I would say is that my “hair would be on fire” if the quality of what they were adding was half-ass or obviously rushed. Meaning poor quality. Not so much with DDM, but earlier episodes had some flaws.

Also if “sound enhancement” were to involve cutting up dialogue or using sound to recast events taking place in the episode so as to change the meanings. That would be offensive.

I think the point of the Vulcan city in the background is to show the scope of the landscape. Since they decided to show a city, why NOT use a perfectly good design that appeared in one of the best episodes of the animated series.

Unless Spock stops and points and says “that’s where I grew up, it’s a cool Vulcan city called Shi-Kar, and I had a pet named Eye-chaya and I was picked on by my friends and my father never understood me,” I don’t think it will impact the story of “Amok Time” at all.

“Personally, I like my Captains to be strong, alpha male types and not some watered down, pastel, captain light. I like my women strong spirited, my ships fast and sleek and I like the characters to be real, not some politically correct versions of real men and women.

Ugh. Peecee, ka-ka. But okay, whatever.

“I’ll be sitting on the couch, with my woman, my popcorn and the THX blasting, when this sweet baby hits the local airwaves.”

“Personally, I like my Captains to be strong, alpha male types and not some watered down, pastel, captain light. I like my women strong spirited, my ships fast and sleek and I like the characters to be real, not some politically correct versions of real men and women.”

Ugh. Peecee, ka-ka. But okay, whatever floats your boat.

“I’ll be sitting on the couch, with my woman, my popcorn and the THX blasting, when this sweet baby hits the local airwaves.”

By all means, enjoy–that’s all anyone was suggesting in the first place.

” I expect to see their tiny little figures beaming into the matte, which won’t necessitate them futzing with the sound – but I’m prepared to be wrong.”

Kind of what I thought. Guess we will see. I know I’m going to like it. They haven’t failed me yet. But I am prepared for the blitzkrieg of criticism yet to come for whatever little “violations” occur in this episode.
I wonder if anyone will complain about edits for syndication? :)

My only standing complaint (which is so far present in every 2nd and 3rd season remastered episode) is having the singer’s voice too prominent in the theme.

I’m just staggered at some of the ignorant remarks made about TAS. The utter brainless snobbery that says a cartoon series has to be disregarded because the characters are drawn is breathtaking!

Such an attitude disrespects the writers (many of whom were TOS writers, plus SF writers such as Larry Niven), the voice artists, the animators and the producers.

Funnily enough, these days, animation is far more accepted as a legitimate grown-up storytelling form than it was pre-anime’s arrival in the West. My parents that had a mental block where animation is concerned, but I managed to get them to watch Stand Alone Complex , and they were hooked! I guess it’s an age thing that has to be got over. Very sad!

I finally got to see TAS on DVD recently and can honestly say that, in tone, it is probably closer to TOS than the movies were. I didn’t feel TAS was particularly kiddie-ish either. If it had been, it might’ve lasted longer than 22 episodes. the animation was primitive, but it was great to hear the voices of so many of the original cast.

TAS provided countless nuggets of subsequently-reused character and Trek universe details and now is providing useful visual material where once there was none. I hope TAS continues to be plundered for reference and I hope that, should a new ST Chronology emerge, TAS is restored to it!

I’d say that the excellent-quality DVD release and generally warmer treatment TAS receives these days means we’re well on the way to that! Remember, Roddenberry’s decision was made 20 years ago. The world and Star Trek itself are very different now. Had Roddenberry lived, he might have changed his mind himself, especially in light of a possible TAS-Remastered!

I think the idea of TAS remade with CGI has been discused on more then one discussion board over the recent years!

I am not up on the current anime. The only reference I have for how a new TAS remaster could be is the Final Fantasy film that was theatrically released a few years ago where Ming Na was the voice actor playing the lead. I thought that was extremely well done visually. And I’m sure the state of the art has improved since. Seeing a young Shat and Nimoy and Kelley and the rest in full CGI would be very cool. And maybe creepy too! : )

I think some people can’t accept TAS as official or canon because they think Star Trek truly happened, and seeing the characters depicted in an animated medium shatters that quite innane self delusion.

The question here isn’t how and why TAS is canon, but rather how in the world could it NOT be canon?

Same creator and producer,
same actors,
same characters,
same writers,
same concept and details within the same fictional universe.

Where is the argument?

Just because I decree on any given day on a whim when Im in a “mood” that I truly didn’t mean the powerhouse fecal matter excreted from the posterior orafice, doesn’t make it so, because there it is, and it was given all due energey, effort, time, care, love, and patience.

I tell you what, I sure as hell consider TAS far more canonesque’ than Voyager or Enterprise.

We know the 23rd century is fun and vibrant, cool and alive via Star Trek, we know the 25th century is cool and dangerous, hip and campy via Buck Rogers, but MY how the 24th century is a DULL ass place.

I am looking forward to seeing this. I think one of the points of redoing these effects is to do things a little bigger and a little better. To expand the view we have into the Star Trek universe: making it sharper and more believable. I think it was very inventive to place the arena like this to help explain the original background and fit it with later views of Vulcan. They are really thinking this stuff through, and they have a respect for the material, and for us, that has been sorely lacking in the past several years. It is greatly appreciated.

Wow, the canon debate wore me out. Frankly, I couldn’t care less, so long as the end result is cool. For episodes that are “space” scene light, it would seem criminally neglegent not to update or fix lackluster backgrounds or f/x. I haven’t seen TAS in a while, and hope to Netflix it someday soon, but I do remember that it’s static animation was its main drawback… which as many have said is a perfect “opprotunity” for update!
~~~
Looks like Amok Time will be worth a look Sunday; cool!

Non-TOS wasn’t the subject yet Josh finds a way to beat on it. (#109)Because you dislike it does not mean the rest of the planet agrees. At what point does that get through to you? We who can read have figured out months ago what you like and dislike. We got it.

I go out of my WAY to dog on non TOS Trek , you can be assured of that.
The rest of the planet doesn’t have to agree on it, nor do I have to agree with the rest of the planet.
This is a Star Trek message board in which opinions, thoughts, reflections, criticisms, desires, and hopes are posted, and I’ll continue to post my deep seated hatred for Berman era Trek until the cows come home because I do not placate artistic mediocrity nor follow mass cattle mentality consensus. No one seemed to tire of the fantastically absurd whining about Nacelle dome caps which is tantamount to proclaiming childhoods are being raped. So now that you know what you can expect and we have got that out of the way , there shall be no more surprises for you. Evidently.

Or are you suggesting you only wish posts to be made that you agree with?

The more I look at the new matte of Vulcan with the city in the background, the more I like it. To use that image reminiscent of the city in Yesteryear was a stroke of genius.

#64 How is the cheese crust tasting? :)

I like Josh’s take on the Roddenberry/canon Animated issue (#108).

Personally, I have no desire to see any alterations made in the animated series. The limited animation does not bother me and it wouldn’t do anything for me to re-do it with the original soundtrack and do it with CGI characters. I also really doubt that it will be done anyway.

Maybe re-do Next Generation in Filmation limited animation. Picard would look right at home being all stiff and motionless and everything.

These are amazing images from Amok Time, thanks. While I must admit to the tiniest tremor of doubt about replacing even a dialogue-free shot of the actors, the level of realism imparted to Vulcan through these brief new establishing shots is truly impressive, and should carry through to the live action scenes that follow.

Incidentally it amazes me how far the new effects have come since the early days. Compare for example these two shots of the Enterprise in orbit, one from The Naked time and one from this week’s episode:

#27, and others, have noted:
“But, the spotty lighting on the red background always jerks me out of the reality and forces me to say “look at that red backdrop” instead of seeing it as a red sky. I know they can’t rotoscope each scene to make it right…”

This is a recurring theme: not enough time and resources to replace the obvious deficiencies of the backgrounds in many episodes. From the hangar deck in “Babel”, to the on-set “outdoor” scenes in the first half of “Friday’s Child” – it’s hard to watch and not think of how things could be improved.

It makes the work that CBS-D is able to complete in some episodes all the more impressive: the city of Mojave behind Pike and Vena’s picnic in “The Menagerie” comes to mind as an obvious example of a rotoscoping nightmare. But the final product looks amazing.

We know that CBS-D doesn’t have the resources to rotoscope every scene they want to. But… why should THEY have to do everything?

In a world where “grid computing” allowed 5,000 computers to come together to compute 420 years worth of data in 4 months (see link below), and where many of us have similar software to what CBS-D is using… who’s to say that certain members of the fan base couldn’t pitch in to help?

Doctor Who fans are doing just that: a team of fans with some TV experience have pitched in to clean up the prints of their beloved TV show (link below). Rotoscoping is an art, I know, but surely there must be a huge number of fans, with the skill and the software, who are willing to work on a few frames of their favourite episodes? It’s a near-impossible task for one team of effects artists to rotoscope longer scenes — but not if that team is comprised of hundreds of people, working in their spare time to improve something they care about.

It doesn’t need to be expensive — contributors would use their own software and hardware. Payment would be cheap: the knowledge they’re helping improve a classic TV show. CBS do a featurette on the process for the eventual DVD release, and include all the names in the final credits of this DVD-only feature, the same way Mr. Jackson included all the names of the LOTR fan club in the DVD release of “Fellowship”.

Too much effort for someone at CBS-D to co-ordinate? Perhaps… but if so, maybe someone from outside of CBS-D could oversee this. Perhaps someone who has demonstrated his skills already – someone with the initials “DD”.

I love the new mattes, they are exciting as usual. Having the city in the background is a superb and completely harmless idea. If you don’t like it being a city from TAS, think of it as an enormous pizza they traditionally eat after the wedding!

As for TAS being canon or not, I for one will not treat every Gene R. pronouncement as the word from on high. We owe him a lot, but Gene was FAR from perfect. As Josh T. and others have pointed out, Gene put his name on TAS, Gene was paid for TAS, Gene had input on TAS, and Gene had DC Fontana do all of the grunt work on TAS for him. The show had the original actors, used several original writers, is much closer in story execution and spirit to TOS than anything else in the oeuvre, etc.

If you’re going to base canon on Roddenberry, you should consider dismissing the entire 3rd season of TOS since Gene walked away from it in a huff and left it to rot. One of his few contributions that season was the IDIC, which may be beloved now but back then was just a marketing gimmick so he could sell some jewelry.

Speaking of the 3rd season of TOS, my way of enjoying Spock’s Brain is to think of it as an intentional send-up of all the worst elements of bad scifi stories. It is in the same category of silliness as Catspaw, A Piece of the Action, etc. I can certainly see the humor in an episode that has a guy helping his own surgeon complete his brain reconnection!

Roddenberry certainly deserves kudos for creating the series and contributing much to it, but there were many others who did as well. That whole IDIC thing was just a money-making scheme and the idea behind was secondary. I know a lot of people ’embrace’ that IDIC concept, but I really could care less about its importance to the show. Kind of like the Prime Directive; yeah it sounds good and all, but whatever. Doesn’t really matter.
For me the show is all about the characters, the tone, and the look of the series. Amok Time has all of that and more. The music has been mentioned a lot. Great stuff.
Although I enjoyed most of the movies based on the series, I was always disappointed that they went away from the colored shirts, colorful bridge, etc. It worked much better as a series, with self-contained episodes, ‘continuity on the fly’ like has been mentioned here recently, and just that situation of the week that could be solved in an hour (or half hour for the animated).
The thing I would like to see (which will never happen) would be to have a series set in the original time period, with a different, similar starship and crew, using the original designs (somewhat updated for modern materials) and the sixties style, right down to the colors, the uniforms, the haircuts and all. A period piece. Kind of like an Exeter only with professional actors. The Starship effects and sets in Exeter are fantastic, by the way.
The proposed new movie interests me not at all, because I know the ‘look’ will not be there and there will be people pretending to be Kirk and Spock. That’s why I really like the Remastered effort. It is the original for the most part, with some cool new augmentations that fit in well. Its a way to have new Star Trek without somebody bungling it all up by changing the overall design of the series. Some may argue that the new effects are just that, but although there is a little different look to the ship with the lighting, etc. , it is obviously the real Enterprise and not somebody’s total re-envisioning.
I know, I’m running Amok…. :) Live Long and Prosper

#115 Josh
Unbind your panties, little one.
You also go out of your way to act indignant. No one said that opinions were not welcome. Or critics.
Good critics generally stay on topic and know when they are repeating themselves. I will grant that these threads all “wander’ a bit, but anyone that regularly posts or even reads the posts knows Josh hates all non-TOS… and that’s your choice. But when repeated in every creative way in nearly every thread….well, I hope you get the idea. Repetition works in advertising, but repeating and repeating your hatreds in “conversation” you become someone who people no longer care to read. You find this to be true? I have seen your other posts…you are knowledgeable without the nearly constant flow of BS.
The nacelle “fiasco” did go too far. But I recall the group came together and generally agreed that enough was enough. Perhaps when the next “bash TNG, DS9 etc” story comes along you can drag your popgun out again and fire away.

Oh, and btw… the Nazi name-calling thing… very creative. I’ll write that one down. And were you calling the whole room “cattle”…or did you care to name them one by one?

And now ON topic…

I like the fact that the TOS series is being remastered with some touches from other Trek elements. There was room for improvement and sprucing backgrounds up with ST III and even TAS scenes not only helps TOS but smoothes continuity from one end of the long Trek universe to another. Much like the mention in “Babel” about Spock’s pet shelat… and then seeing it in “Yesteryear”. These little additions from series to series are cool little “easter eggs” for fans and expand the ST universe a tad bit more… and more is enjoyable.

I can’t quite figure out this argument over TAS being canon. Gene Roddenberry said he didn’t consider it canon. Paramount doesn’t either. A few references to certain aspects of Spock’s history from the TAS episode “Yesteryear” made their way into live-action Trek history, but nothing that had to do with the actual plot of that episode ever did. No other character in any version of Trek has ever mentioned anything from TAS as actually happening.

That means it IS NOT canon. So, how can a matte shot by CBS Digital of a Vulcan city that resembles a city shown on TAS suddenly make that whole series canon? Answer: It doesn’t. CBS Digital thought it would be fun to reference the image, so they did. It is, at best, an affectionate nod to TAS, not an endorsement that it should now be considered canon.

Get some perspective, people. Don’t read so much into this stuff. FX work has always been full of little “inside jokes.” This is just another example of one. Chill out, for goodness sake.

That being said, I have a soft spot in my heart for TAS, even though it isn’t canon. Personally, I’d love to see them take the dialog from those shows and completely re-do the series with CGI; FX, the sets, the characters, everything. I think it would be a hoot to see TAS updated that way.

MichaelJohn (#118): Its respect for it’s own canon is one of the neatest things about Star Trek. It grounds the various shows in a more adherent “reality.” The timeline gives us, as fans, something to follow. Plot A leads to Plot B, characters can reference events we’ve seen before. It provides a history for the characters to inhabit and be a part of. Is it really important in the grand scheme of things? No, it isn’t, but it’s pretty darn cool just the same.

Actually, these days, TAS is pretty much regarded as part of Trek history. Read the info in the booklet that accompanies the DVD, which, incidentally, is packaged in a similar style to the love action releases.

Gene Roddenberry never said DS9, Voyager and Enterprise were canon, so does that make them disposable?

People should just get a life and enjoy TAS for what it is: a fun extra season of Star Trek.

BTW, anyone else hope we get to see Arex and M’Ress in the new movie? ;)

I think it’s quite a leap to make from seeing a fuzzy city in the background of a matte painting to deciding whether or not the Animated Series is canon. Even though that city is in those shots, it doesn’t necessarily follow that Arex and MRess are now an official part of the crew.

That link was quite illuminating. I never knew there had been so many allusions to TAS in later Trek series. It looks like I’ll have to re-think my opinion of TAS canon. Thanks for posting that link.

Dom,

It would be kind of cool to see Arex, or at least someone of his race, in the new Trek film. As for M’Ress, I’ll give a “thumbs up” to that! I had such a crush on her when I was a kid. I remember a lot of fan speculation when Star Trek V was released that the “cat dancer” at the bar on Nimbus III was likely a member of the same race as M’Ress even though that was never stated in the film itself. An interesting supposition, made more so by the increasing opinion that TAS may be canon after all.

This subject deserves more scrutiny on my part. Time to do some research.