Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways

Alberto, a 77-year-old General Motors Co. retiree from Flint, died in
April 2008 after her Camry sped and hit two trees although she
"vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes, according to the
lawsuit filed in Genesee County Circuit Court by Lilia Alberto, a
representative of her estate.

Alberto's Camry had no floor mat on the driver's side, the lawyers
said in the lawsuit.

Federal regulators and Toyota Motor Corp. are discussing whether the
automaker needs to fix gas pedals or floor pans in millions of
recalled vehicles instead of blaming floor mats, which the automaker
had maintained was the source of unintended acceleration cases.

john <johngdole@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Alberto, a 77-year-old General Motors Co. retiree from Flint, died in
>April 2008 after her Camry sped and hit two trees although she
>"vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes, according to the
>lawsuit filed in Genesee County Circuit Court by Lilia Alberto, a
>representative of her estate.

Wait, wait.... this is a GM retiree who owns a Toyota?
I don't know WHAT that says but it sure doesn't sound good for the
US auto industry.
--scott

"john" <johngdole@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f99ee0b9-1313-455e-9d2c-8cb3cbaec320@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> Alberto, a 77-year-old General Motors Co. retiree from Flint, died
> in
> April 2008 after her Camry sped and hit two trees although she
> "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes, according to the
> lawsuit filed in Genesee County Circuit Court by Lilia Alberto, a
> representative of her estate.

How do they know she "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes
if she diesd in the crash? Sounds like another case of pedal confusion
to me.

Ed
>
> Alberto's Camry had no floor mat on the driver's side, the lawyers
> said in the lawsuit.
>
> Federal regulators and Toyota Motor Corp. are discussing whether the
> automaker needs to fix gas pedals or floor pans in millions of
> recalled vehicles instead of blaming floor mats, which the automaker
> had maintained was the source of unintended acceleration cases.
>
> Full article at:
> http://www.freep.com/article/2009111...eyond-the-mats

On 20 Nov 2009 06:57:06 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>john <johngdole@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Alberto, a 77-year-old General Motors Co. retiree from Flint, died in
>>April 2008 after her Camry sped and hit two trees although she
>>"vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes, according to the
>>lawsuit filed in Genesee County Circuit Court by Lilia Alberto, a
>>representative of her estate.
>
>Wait, wait.... this is a GM retiree who owns a Toyota?
>I don't know WHAT that says but it sure doesn't sound good for the
>US auto industry.

The "poetic justice" part didn't do too well for her either.
Karma with a vengeance.

"C. E. White" wrote:
>
> "john" <johngdole@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:f99ee0b9-1313-455e-9d2c-8cb3cbaec320@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> > Alberto, a 77-year-old General Motors Co. retiree from Flint, died
> > in
> > April 2008 after her Camry sped and hit two trees although she
> > "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes, according to the
> > lawsuit filed in Genesee County Circuit Court by Lilia Alberto, a
> > representative of her estate.
>
> How do they know she "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes
> if she diesd in the crash? Sounds like another case of pedal confusion
> to me.

I would think it would be fairly easy to tell if the pads and rotors had
been heated beyond the point where they no longer can stop the vehicle.
This is something that has been observed in vehicles (usually trucks)
that have brake failure on long steep downhill grades. If the rotors
have turned blue I'd say that is pretty good evidence the brakes were
applied vigorously and desperately.
-jim
>
> Ed
>
> >
> > Alberto's Camry had no floor mat on the driver's side, the lawyers
> > said in the lawsuit.
> >
> > Federal regulators and Toyota Motor Corp. are discussing whether the
> > automaker needs to fix gas pedals or floor pans in millions of
> > recalled vehicles instead of blaming floor mats, which the automaker
> > had maintained was the source of unintended acceleration cases.
> >
> > Full article at:
> > http://www.freep.com/article/2009111...eyond-the-mats

"jim" <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net> wrote in message
news:xaudnb0dysr_N5vWnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@bright.net.. .
>
>
> "C. E. White" wrote:
>>
>> "john" <johngdole@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:f99ee0b9-1313-455e-9d2c-8cb3cbaec320@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>> > Alberto, a 77-year-old General Motors Co. retiree from Flint,
>> > died
>> > in
>> > April 2008 after her Camry sped and hit two trees although she
>> > "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes, according to the
>> > lawsuit filed in Genesee County Circuit Court by Lilia Alberto, a
>> > representative of her estate.
>>
>> How do they know she "vigorously and desperately" applied her
>> brakes
>> if she diesd in the crash? Sounds like another case of pedal
>> confusion
>> to me.
>
> I would think it would be fairly easy to tell if the pads and rotors
> had
> been heated beyond the point where they no longer can stop the
> vehicle.
> This is something that has been observed in vehicles (usually
> trucks)
> that have brake failure on long steep downhill grades. If the rotors
> have turned blue I'd say that is pretty good evidence the brakes
> were
> applied vigorously and desperately.
> -jim

The problem is, she may have also been pressing the accelerator pedal
at the same time. It is less likely with a lady becasue they generally
have smaller feet, but it still happens.

And even if the rotors show signs of having been over heated, how do
you tell when this happened?

C. E. White wrote:
>
> How do they know she "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes
> if she diesd in the crash? Sounds like another case of pedal confusion
> to me.
>
> Ed
>

I belong to a Prius discussion group, and a couple of members have had
strong acceleration when using the resume button on their cruise
control. They believe the cruise control may be the problem on several
models of Toyota. After using the resume button the cruise control held
the accelerator way open well after the car reached the previously set
speed. The people reporting this were able to turn off the cruise
control easily enough, and the brakes slowed the car while they were
turning it off.

"C. E. White" wrote:
> The problem is, she may have also been pressing the accelerator pedal
> at the same time. It is less likely with a lady becasue they generally
> have smaller feet, but it still happens.

The question I responded to was:

How do they know she "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes
>
> And even if the rotors show signs of having been over heated, how do
> you tell when this happened?

Well it would have happened the last time the car was driven if the wear
surface is blue. If you let the rotors cool and use the brakes normally
it will fairly quickly wear off that bluish patina and return the color
back to a more normal appearance.

There you go again. Another negative report about Toyota. You jealous
that you can't afford to purchase a Toyota or Lexus? You still stuck with
that 10 year old Kia with 235,000 miles on it?

"john" <johngdole@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f99ee0b9-1313-455e-9d2c-8cb3cbaec320@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> Alberto, a 77-year-old General Motors Co. retiree from Flint, died in
> April 2008 after her Camry sped and hit two trees although she
> "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes, according to the
> lawsuit filed in Genesee County Circuit Court by Lilia Alberto, a
> representative of her estate.
>
> Alberto's Camry had no floor mat on the driver's side, the lawyers
> said in the lawsuit.
>
> Federal regulators and Toyota Motor Corp. are discussing whether the
> automaker needs to fix gas pedals or floor pans in millions of
> recalled vehicles instead of blaming floor mats, which the automaker
> had maintained was the source of unintended acceleration cases.
>
> Full article at:
> http://www.freep.com/article/2009111...eyond-the-mats

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