I can say that top execs katie and all ticket reps are operating business as usual as of today

I just went to check the website to see if the Liberty were still selling tickets (and was kinda horrified at the prices you guys are asked to pay for anything resembling a decent seat).

Wow - my Storm seat is $400. the equivalent seat for the Liberty is nearly $1200.

The highest-priced season ticket at the English Premier League soccer team I support (last season the 7th-best team in the most popular soccer league on the planet) is £565. That's around $768 at current exchange rates. I get that New York's one of the most expensive cities in the world whatever you're buying, but $1000+ for anything but the crappiest corner seats to see a niche sports league seems crazy. And you're not even getting as many games as I would at Everton. Congrats on showing up in the numbers that you do, NY fans.

Just for perspective's sake, in the NHL I like the Devils, who are lower-priced than the Rangers. I just paid $90 for a seat in the 100s (mid-level) on the blue line for a single game. Nice seat, comparable to my Liberty seat which is $35 per game. A Yankees seat in the upper deck behind home plate is probably in the area of 25-30 dollars per game. Not to say I don't get your point. I definitely do. But being in NY I guess I look at it in relative terms as a good price because I can afford it. If say I wanted to get a comparable plan to a so-called major sport of approximately 15 games in our metro area, it would be much harder financially to pull off.

As such, I would willingly have paid $5-$10 more per game for my seat. I'm sure some people wouldn't, but if it meant keeping our team, I'd think the ones who could afford it would do it. Even though our prices are higher, our salaries are also higher than those who do comparable jobs elsewhere. If you want to invest in something like a house, NY arguably isn't the best place to do it if you want to live here long-term, especially in retirement. But our salaries are higher, which weighs into the situation too.

Also for the sake of comparison I checked Chelsea, a soccer club in the heart of London who've always been the most wildly overpriced team in the country since I was a kid. Season tickets are anything from £595 to £1200 ($807-$1627) for next season.

$35 for decent seats to Liberty games seems okay to me, albeit I'd expect a decent discount for committing to 17 games from the start. It's just that 35 x 17 is $595, which doesn't get you out of deep in the corners on the chart I was looking at: http://liberty.wnba.com/2018-new-york-liberty-seating-savings-chart/ . For anything that isn't in the corner or right at the back, you're talking $828 minimum, which is $49 a game (I'm ignoring that they probably make you pay for preseason games in that total, because I've always thought that was completely ridiculous and insulting). At those prices, even as a fan, I'd think at least twice, and probably wait to see what kind of discounts they were throwing around on a game-by-game basis.

I'm actually reasonably fond of our corner seats- they're not as badly angled as you might think and we get some good views of the action under the basket, while being close enough to feel the heat of the pregame torch and occasionally hear coaches yelling. (For reference, we're in $46 seats in 109, row 7, seats 1 and 2, strategically across the aisle from the $65 seats, taking advantage of a quirky bend in the aisle.) (Also, hello, everyone, feel free to say hi before games.)

Because they've done the preseason game at Columbia, I'm not sure they put it in at full price. I certainly wouldn't pay $46 for anything at Levien.

And New York ticket prices are obscene in general. For what I pay to sit in 109 for the Liberty, I can maybe get a ticket in the 400s for the Rangers and Knicks. I think market correction has adjusted it, but there was a story a few years ago about watching the Yankees and the Mariners- you could buy two seats behind home plate at Yankee Stadium, or you could save money by flying to Seattle, staying over at a nice hotel, enjoying a steak dinner, and buying two tickets behind home plate in Seattle.

Obviously, there are a lot of wealthy people in the NYC metro area who are willing and able to pay obscene amounts of money for live events. That drags prices up for even niche events. Orchestra and front mezzanine seats for a middling Broadway show like Dear Evan Hansen go for $199. A special event like Bruce Springsteen on Broadway commands prices ranging from $75 to $850. On Stub Hub, the same tickets go for $1000 to $9800.

On May 13th, I did a doubleheader of the Liberty opener at 3:00 and a Rhiannon Giddens concert at 7:30. The Liberty tickets were row 9, section 107, which cost me $60 as part of a partial plan. Of course, row 9 at MSG isn't actually row 9 but it's still middle-middle of the lower bowl, which I consider pretty good. Meanwhile, the concert cost me $90 for the sixth row (whatever the row label). Note that Rhiannon Giddens gets a lot of critical acclaim, but she isn't that popular. This concert was part of a series at Lincoln Center, so a lot of people were simply subscribers to the series and not actual fans of the singer (which I am). Around the country, Giddens often plays clubs instead of auditoriums. Her best tickets probably average around $50. That gives you some perspective. So yes, ticket prices are elevated in NYC, and Liberty games are actually at the lower end of the price spectrum. Nonetheless, high prices is partly why Liberty fans are reluctant to travel farther if the team relocates. You're now adding cost and extra time to what was already an expensive outing. It's a matter of the straw that breaks the camel's back.

_________________We live in a political world
Love don't have any place
We're living in times
Where men commit crimes
And crime don't have any face

Note that Rhiannon Giddens gets a lot of critical acclaim, but she isn't that popular. This concert was part of a series at Lincoln Center, so a lot of people were simply subscribers to the series and not actual fans of the singer (which I am). Around the country, Giddens often plays clubs instead of auditoriums. Her best tickets probably average around $50.

I love Rhiannon Giddens' work. First saw her many years ago at the Schomburg Center in Harlem when the Carolina Chocolate Drops were just beginning to become better known. They were wonderful. I love her solo CD "Freedom Highway." Was just playing it the other day.

_________________Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.

Note that Rhiannon Giddens gets a lot of critical acclaim, but she isn't that popular. This concert was part of a series at Lincoln Center, so a lot of people were simply subscribers to the series and not actual fans of the singer (which I am). Around the country, Giddens often plays clubs instead of auditoriums. Her best tickets probably average around $50.

I love Rhiannon Giddens' work. First saw her many years ago at the Schomburg Center in Harlem when the Carolina Chocolate Drops were just beginning to become better known. They were wonderful. I love her solo CD "Freedom Highway." Was just playing it the other day.

Yeah, I've gone all fanboy over her - to the point where I make entries to her Wikipedia page. Unfortunately, Rhiannon doesn't play NY very often. She has 3 dates coming up, but none are her own concerts. Two guest appearances, which probably means one or two songs, and a lecture/master class type event. The latter might be worth attending -- assuming non-musicians are allowed.

_________________We live in a political world
Love don't have any place
We're living in times
Where men commit crimes
And crime don't have any face

Also for the sake of comparison I checked Chelsea, a soccer club in the heart of London who've always been the most wildly overpriced team in the country since I was a kid. Season tickets are anything from £595 to £1200 ($807-$1627) for next season.

$35 for decent seats to Liberty games seems okay to me, albeit I'd expect a decent discount for committing to 17 games from the start. It's just that 35 x 17 is $595, which doesn't get you out of deep in the corners on the chart I was looking at: http://liberty.wnba.com/2018-new-york-liberty-seating-savings-chart/ . For anything that isn't in the corner or right at the back, you're talking $828 minimum, which is $49 a game (I'm ignoring that they probably make you pay for preseason games in that total, because I've always thought that was completely ridiculous and insulting). At those prices, even as a fan, I'd think at least twice, and probably wait to see what kind of discounts they were throwing around on a game-by-game basis.

I'm in the back of the one of the middle sections. Lol I guess I paid $46. I had a credit leftover from the playoffs from the year before so maybe that is why I was confused about the price. I got a few hundred dollars off. I forgot that the prices had gone up. So yeah, I'd say $46 is probably just about pushing the threshold for that seat.

If you look here, it was $35 in the upper center for a seat. Maybe they were in the process of making it $46 for the 2018 season, I don't know. I hadn't made my 2018 purchase yet. If it meant we'd have a team, I can afford it, so I would do it.

just needed to do some research and realised Magic Johnson buying the Sparks was announced on Feb. 5. Thought it was a week or so earlier. The schedule was released a week later. If we hear nothing by Feb. 5, do we then start to panic?

just needed to do some research and realised Magic Johnson buying the Sparks was announced on Feb. 5. Thought it was a week or so earlier. The schedule was released a week later. If we hear nothing by Feb. 5, do we then start to panic?

Dear toad,

Please reconsider your use of the word "we." Any Liberty fan who wants to panic now, on Feb. 5th, whenever, has that right. Speaking only for myself, I am not in a panic and don't plan to be. I hope good news is ahead. And soon. If there are weeks more of silence, I intend to stay calm. If there is bad news, I'll feel sad, angry, whatever. I'll deal with that if and when I have to.

With very best wishes,

Bob

_________________Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.

It may be that the team will just continue business as usual if there is no satisfactory deal done by then.

Definitely true. One possibility that hasn't gotten much discussion here: the hideous Jimmy Dolan could find that he's unable to make a satisfactory deal that'll work in time for the 2018 season. He could make a deal under which changes will begin after the season is over. Or he could decide to keep pursuing a deal while the season is under way, knowing it'll take effect for 2019.

_________________Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.

It may be that the team will just continue business as usual if there is no satisfactory deal done by then.

Definitely true. One possibility that hasn't gotten much discussion here: the hideous Jimmy Dolan could find that he's unable to make a satisfactory deal that'll work in time for the 2018 season. He could make a deal under which changes will begin after the season is over. Or he could decide to keep pursuing a deal while the season is under way, knowing it'll take effect for 2019.

I pointed that out elsewhere. Most of the other teams had actual financial problems where disbanding the team got them out of it. MSG is not in that same boat. They simply are trying to sell off unprofitable portions of their portfolio. I highly doubt that disbanding the team would end up being better for the bottom line.

I also think that any acts big enough to play at MSG would need to be booked over a year in advance. I am willing to bet that part of the stipulation is that they play at MSG this summer and pay for it. The Liberty front office seems to be business as usual so they are still getting salaries.

I have it on good authority that the WNBA recognizes the need to get a schedule out and are trying very hard to get one out by the end of January. I hope they succeed.

just needed to do some research and realised Magic Johnson buying the Sparks was announced on Feb. 5. Thought it was a week or so earlier. The schedule was released a week later. If we hear nothing by Feb. 5, do we then start to panic?

Dear toad,

Please reconsider your use of the word "we." Any Liberty fan who wants to panic now, on Feb. 5th, whenever, has that right. Speaking only for myself, I am not in a panic and don't plan to be. I hope good news is ahead. And soon. If there are weeks more of silence, I intend to stay calm. If there is bad news, I'll feel sad, angry, whatever. I'll deal with that if and when I have to.

Looking at the schedule for MSG for this summer(June/July/August), it's pretty wide open. Billy Joel has his monthly concert, there's Harry Styles, Foo Fighters, U2, Rod Stewart, Sam Smith & Shakira all with one or two dates taken. It could be possible MSG is keeping certain dates clear for the Liberty if they keep the team for 2018 or if they're letting the new owners have them play at MSG.

It may be that the team will just continue business as usual if there is no satisfactory deal done by then.

Definitely true. One possibility that hasn't gotten much discussion here: the hideous Jimmy Dolan could find that he's unable to make a satisfactory deal that'll work in time for the 2018 season. He could make a deal under which changes will begin after the season is over. Or he could decide to keep pursuing a deal while the season is under way, knowing it'll take effect for 2019.

I pointed that out elsewhere. Most of the other teams had actual financial problems where disbanding the team got them out of it. MSG is not in that same boat. They simply are trying to sell off unprofitable portions of their portfolio. I highly doubt that disbanding the team would end up being better for the bottom line.

I also think that any acts big enough to play at MSG would need to be booked over a year in advance. I am willing to bet that part of the stipulation is that they play at MSG this summer and pay for it. The Liberty front office seems to be business as usual so they are still getting salaries.

I have it on good authority that the WNBA recognizes the need to get a schedule out and are trying very hard to get one out by the end of January. I hope they succeed.

All of this makes perfect sense. And is part of why I'm not in a panic.

_________________Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.

I pointed that out elsewhere. Most of the other teams had actual financial problems where disbanding the team got them out of it. MSG is not in that same boat. They simply are trying to sell off unprofitable portions of their portfolio. I highly doubt that disbanding the team would end up being better for the bottom line.

If they are losing money, I think that disbanding the team would be better for the bottom line (but it may not be a significant amount). They lose all the Liberty home game revenue, but they also lose all the Liberty expenses.

I pointed that out elsewhere. Most of the other teams had actual financial problems where disbanding the team got them out of it. MSG is not in that same boat. They simply are trying to sell off unprofitable portions of their portfolio. I highly doubt that disbanding the team would end up being better for the bottom line.

If they are losing money, I think that disbanding the team would be better for the bottom line (but it may not be a significant amount). They lose all the Liberty home game revenue, but they also lose all the Liberty expenses.

They would not be disbanding the organization that owned the team which I believe makes this more of a layoff from an employment standpoint. That's what usually happens when you close a business owned by a larger business.

I pointed that out elsewhere. Most of the other teams had actual financial problems where disbanding the team got them out of it. MSG is not in that same boat. They simply are trying to sell off unprofitable portions of their portfolio. I highly doubt that disbanding the team would end up being better for the bottom line.

If they are losing money, I think that disbanding the team would be better for the bottom line (but it may not be a significant amount). They lose all the Liberty home game revenue, but they also lose all the Liberty expenses.

They would not be disbanding the organization that owned the team which I believe makes this more of a layoff from an employment standpoint. That's what usually happens when you close a business owned by a larger business.

You are saying that a layoff entails extra costs with regard to payments to the state unemployment fund?

The Liberty also incur some costs in the off-season that wouldn't count against a decision to play in the summer as far as expenses/revenue.

Looking at the Liberty staff directory for people who are "Liberty only" versus shared with MSG, I see that Vincent Novicki still lists his job on LinkedIn as Director, Communications - New York Liberty. Daakeia Clarke, Vice President, New York Liberty Team Business Development, isn't on LinkedIn. It's hard to tell which of the other staff are "Liberty only". Swin Cash may be, but also not on LinkedIn.

Bill's always been an asset manager who very rarely loses something for nothing.

Yeah, like that trade for Tweety Nolan, for instance. He was able to unload that useless McCarville, who went on to help the Lynx as a starter to their arguably strongest Championship run.

Quote:

Friday, the Liberty were part of a three-team trade involving Minnesota and Tulsa. New York got the Nos. 15 and 27 picks in the upcoming draft, plus the rights to former Detroit guard Deanna Nolan. She hasn't played in the WNBA since the franchise moved to Tulsa.
Tulsa got forward Nicole Powell from New York and guard Candice Wiggins from Minnesota, plus the No. 29 pick in the draft. The Lynx got forward Janel McCarville from the Liberty and a 2014 second-round draft pick from the Shock.

So he traded to get some picks and a hope that Nolan would return and sent McCarville back to her roots. Only you could turn a favor done to a player into a snark against that coach.

Bill's always been an asset manager who very rarely loses something for nothing.

Yeah, like that trade for Tweety Nolan, for instance. He was able to unload that useless McCarville, who went on to help the Lynx as a starter to their arguably strongest Championship run.

Quote:

Friday, the Liberty were part of a three-team trade involving Minnesota and Tulsa. New York got the Nos. 15 and 27 picks in the upcoming draft, plus the rights to former Detroit guard Deanna Nolan. She hasn't played in the WNBA since the franchise moved to Tulsa.
Tulsa got forward Nicole Powell from New York and guard Candice Wiggins from Minnesota, plus the No. 29 pick in the draft. The Lynx got forward Janel McCarville from the Liberty and a 2014 second-round draft pick from the Shock.

So he traded to get some picks and a hope that Nolan would return and sent McCarville back to her roots. Only you could turn a favor done to a player into a snark against that coach.

My impression--perhaps I've got this wrong--is that McCarville was anxious to go back home and there were indications that she wouldn't play in New York again. If that's true, then Laimbeer did a favor for McCarville AND got something for possibly nothing. I'm with Nerd here. I see absolutely no reason to criticize Laimbeer for that trade.

_________________Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.

My recollection was the McCarville was not wanting to play in NY when Whiz was the coach and just didn't show. Laimbeer did not seem like a big fan of McCarville anyway. He made some comments about seeing her play overseas, I believe, which at the time I characterized as "damning by faint praise". So in the end, I think it was pretty mutual that she should go elsewhere. I always thought Laimbeer's lack of enthusiasm for McCarville was strange because of all the players in the W, her game seemed most like his - good high post game, good passer, and let's just say "very physical".

_________________The fault...lies not not in our stars but in ourselves that we are losers.

JMac wanted a couple of days at home with her family before coming to camp in 2011. It meant showing up a bit late, but Whisenant told her to show up on time or be fined. Janel chose to sit out the season instead. Then in 2012, Whiz goes out to visit JMac, hat in hand, and asks her to come back. By then, Janel decides that she likes spending summers with her family and declines the invitation. We know this because she actually posted a note (I think on the Liberty website) where she thanked Whiz and the Liberty for their interest. When Laimbeer takes over in 2013, he is asked about McCarville and he answers that she is a good passer. To me, that's a perfectly reasonable thing to say since it's JMac's actual reputation -- as one of the best passing centers in the league. However, people on this board chose to characterize it as faint praise. Anyway, it was clear that JMac wouldn't play anywhere that wasn't close to her home in Wisconsin. That meant Minnesota or nowhere. So, Laimbeer packaged her in a trade that netted him something back. At the time, no one knew that Nolan would never return. In business, what the Liberty got was akin to an option. Options give you the right to acquire an asset within a fixed period of time if certain conditions are met. Sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't. Either way, the opportunity itself is considered to have value.

_________________We live in a political world
Love don't have any place
We're living in times
Where men commit crimes
And crime don't have any face

JMac wanted a couple of days at home with her family before coming to camp in 2011. It meant showing up a bit late, but Whisenant told her to show up on time or be fined. Janel chose to sit out the season instead. Then in 2012, Whiz goes out to visit JMac, hat in hand, and asks her to come back. By then, Janel decides that she likes spending summers with her family and declines the invitation. We know this because she actually posted a note (I think on the Liberty website) where she thanked Whiz and the Liberty for their interest. When Laimbeer takes over in 2013, he is asked about McCarville and he answers that she is a good passer. To me, that's a perfectly reasonable thing to say since it's JMac's actual reputation -- as one of the best passing centers in the league. However, people on this board chose to characterize it as faint praise. Anyway, it was clear that JMac wouldn't play anywhere that wasn't close to her home in Wisconsin. That meant Minnesota or nowhere. So, Laimbeer packaged her in a trade that netted him something back. At the time, no one knew that Nolan would never return. In business, what the Liberty got was akin to an option. Options give you the right to acquire an asset within a fixed period of time if certain conditions are met. Sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't. Either way, the opportunity itself is considered to have value.

Thanks for posting this. These details confirm my recollections: "Minnesota or nowhere" for McCarville. So it was certainly worth doing by Laimbeer. Maybe Nolan comes to New York; maybe she doesn't. Maybe the draft picks work out for the Liberty; maybe they don't. Possible gain in exchange for giving away a player who wasn't returning to New York anyway. And he did something nice for McCarville in the process.

_________________Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.

So most of January is gone and we still know nothing about our team's future.

I could prove to be very wrong. There could be some bombshell soon ahead. But here's my guess: every day that passes with no news means it's more likely that the New York Liberty will play the 2018 season in Madison Square Garden. Whether the team is sold soon or not.

I'm not speculating now about 2019 or beyond. But I believe that our 2018 season will be played at the Garden.

_________________Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.

It's been interesting to watch the MSG schedule fill up. There are still whole blocks open that could accommodate games but there are not as many as in years past. The schedule will be compressed this year so maybe they would stack up home stands. But, it might also mean a split in locations.

June, July and August are still almost wide open. We may not get all 17 games at MSG this season, but I still think we get 12-14 there. How that works with season ticket holders is another thing.

The big thing that I wonder is how different it will be now that it is independently owned. One of the biggest perks of courtside was that Delta Club food. Would they still have that? What would the ticket prices be if they didn't get the hometown discount?

That's debatable. As someone who sits behind the Liberty bench and is in Delta Club- the food is most definitely NOT one of the best perks, and is frequently actually complained about! I'd honestly rather just have the old perk= $30 for cocktails, and just grab a hotdog from somewhere in the arena. As for the seat prices, I'll gladly pay more for my seat, if that's what it takes, so long as it means I still have my Liberty to root for and cheer on. They are my team do or die, and I'm all in here!