Wow. Thank you for that insight P13. It really helps me understand and, I hope it will also feed back to DF to improve their site. I always loved the forum - thats why I put so much effort into it.

Tho I wish someone would tell me why I had to leave - that was the worst being summarily executed. Back then they would put a red line through your name in your profile page and write 'banned' under it. I was like being declared dead (as in the clan of the cavebear book).

Turns out, I wasn't dead after all, just going through a phoenix thing of my own

It also helps explain to me your facility with the forum and ease at PDO.

ftr, the phoenix thing is about my personal life, not DF. I gave up personal emotional investment in dance forums seven (?) years ago, the first time I quit one.

But yes. It helps, if someone will take the time to show you their piece of the picture. DF is bad at that. (I think that) because of some of the personalities involved, it's all about saving face,once a decision is made, even if it's a horrible decision made in haste.

I'm sorry that what happened to you happened,ee.

On a brighter note,though, I think that DF and(more importantly)PDO have the potential to be a force for good in the partner dance community. Not every decision made will be the right one or even a good one. But every person has the capacity to accomplish good in this world. If the good you want to accomplish is in the partner dance world, PDO is a great place!

I agree - we serve rather different communities and different goals. DF has become more specifics oriented, we are more people so. Something to remember when 'marketing' the PDO 'product' (don't you hate the terminology!!)

I agree - we serve rather different communities and different goals. DF has become more specifics oriented, we are more people so. Something to remember when 'marketing' the PDO 'product' (don't you hate the terminology!!)

Actually no,I don't hate it. This probably belongs in a PDO-related thread (I'll have to figure out which one.) I think an important key is understanding PDO's mission and its intended membership. Then, the PDO team can target its message toward serving those people. I'll take this offline -- that is out of the publicly readable thread -- and take it to a members-only thread.

I wonder how many PDO members are currently on both forums (BTW its something we have always actively encouraged - I would be too if it were possible).

Also by the way, I vowed to never sign onto DF using a fake ID and I never have. I have been back a very few times to check on my status - which changed from BANNED to inactive (but meaning the same thing).

I was thinking about your question, ee, and realized that I know or know of several people who are active in both forums. That's pretty noteworthy, since I haven't been in PDO long enough to know most of who's here.

Most of the people I know lurk in one forum and post in the other. I won't give more information because, if people want to identify themselves,they can. It's not my place to do that.

My conclusion is that there is probably a fair amount of overlap. Kinda hard to tell, since active participation (in the form of posting) is at a pretty low rate in both places. So my comments are based on who actually posts and/or de-cloaks when they log into either forum.

I am a member of DF but I no longer post at all - just read. I posted only briefly but stopped because I felt intimidated. It seems most of the people who post are far above my level and there seem to be some sharp tongues (pens). One misstep (or mis-write) can unleash a backlash. So I read to learn but don't talk, and keep my serenity.

I am a member of DF but I no longer post at all - just read. I posted only briefly but stopped because I felt intimidated. It seems most of the people who post are far above my level and there seem to be some sharp tongues (pens). One misstep (or mis-write) can unleash a backlash. So I read to learn but don't talk, and keep my serenity.

I have seen this as well, cha. This is what led directly to DF and me parting ways. I read but don't talk over there. I suspect you and I are not alone in that.

I also agree with Q. It's a free choice. It's also perfectly understandable if people post in both places,if they want. Each forum has different strengths and different areas that need growth. So, for example,if I had an in-depth technical question about American smooth, I probably would not ask it here. But, if I had a question about virtually anything outside the US borders (with the exception of things like Blackpool, which know no borders,) PDO would be my first stop.

Each forum has its own personality and areas of expertise. It's okay if people take advantage of both resources. (Yes. I know that everyone is relieved to have my permission. )

Now that I've been here and out of DF for three months (Wow! Time flies!) I will say that my perception, right now,is that the biggest difference between the two forums is that PDO values each of its members as individuals.

That probably doesn't make sense. I cannot count the number of times, back when I was a DF staff member, that something bad would happen -- either someone would choose to leave or be asked to leave. I'd get upset and want to make conciliatory moves toward that person who was leaving DF. And I would get told,by a member of the DF administration, not to get upset. People have free choice. They can come or go. There'll be more people and new members.

That is true.There will be more people. The dance world is large and growing. People come and go every day. But you never can get a new leg. (Remember that nursery rhyme/song?**) What has bothered me about DF from my very first experiences there is the apparent belief that people are expendable and/or interchangeable. I just can't stomach that.

If ee is banned or cha stops participating or I leave, you may get other members. But you never can get another ee or cha or P13. Each person brings a unique je ne sais quoi to the table. When they leave, that is gone. I never have been able to understand why more effort was not made to value each person's je ne sais quoi. That is what, IMO,makes a community work -- each person's unique contribution.

I truly wonder how much larger and more successful DF would be today if it didn't apparently operate under the "Don't worry. There are always more fish in the sea,"philosophy.

This is not to say that PDO has not lost people. We can talk about that in a PDO discussion thread. What I am saying is that, in contrasting my own experiences in the two forums, PDO mourns the loss when people leave for whatever reason. DF pretends it didn't happen (often to the point of deleting references to the departed. I have literally seen it happen.) and relies on finding replacements.

Clue: People are irreplaceable.

** I can't remember the lyrics. Something to do with not running into the street after a stray ball. I'll ask my big sister.