I did see it. I guess it's kind of a big deal. Given their history with the Creation festival and it's founder, I wouldn't be surprised if the festival is trying to get them to appear there. It wouldn't surprise me if they have been trying for years to get them together, especially when the guys have all been there with their separate bands.
Strictly fro ma business standpoint, I would think that doing something more substantial than just a cruise show would be good for their retirement fund.

gman wrote:Strictly fro ma business standpoint, I would think that doing something more substantial than just a cruise show would be good for their retirement fund.

I have a feeling they don't need much help with their retirement fund. At least Toby Mac and Michael Tait have had very active post-DC Talk careers. I don't know about the other fellow who has dropped so far below the radar that I can't even remember his name. At this point, he's probably just happy for any gig at all.

gman wrote:Strictly fro ma business standpoint, I would think that doing something more substantial than just a cruise show would be good for their retirement fund.

I have a feeling they don't need much help with their retirement fund. At least Toby Mac and Michael Tait have had very active post-DC Talk careers. I don't know about the other fellow who has dropped so far below the radar that I can't even remember his name. At this point, he's probably just happy for any gig at all.

Kevin Max has always been the least mainstream of the three, so it makes sense that he's the one people hear less of. His solo efforts have been farther from the center, but still pretty darn good IMO. I'm quite fond of Stereotype Be and The Impostor. That's why I was surprised to see him front a new incarnation of Audio Adrenaline, but he brought that same eclectic style of songwriting to the band and I thought their latest album was pretty good. Anyway, I don't think he's in much need of help in the retirement fund either.

brent wrote:The Christian audience and the big Nashville machine became hypocritical and distanced themselves from them, forgetting (maybe never really knowing) everyone is just human, working out their salvation.

Christian leaders were lashing at them from the beginning. I remember reading a very long "manifesto" in the mid-to-late 90's from a pastor against the whole Christian rock scene, and he was quite harsh against the dc Talk guys bringing up things from their youth and how some of them had been involved in drugs or something when they were teens. I mean, c'mon! Isn't that what Christianity is about? Leaving the past behind and becoming a new creature? And if audiences are able to embrace Amy Freakin' Grant, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to embrace Kevin Max or Toby Mac for their personal affairs.

For a long time now, and for whatever reason, divorce has been embraced by the church as one of those "acceptable" sins. Straight up adultery still marks you as a pariah, but if you divorce your spouse and marry someone else then that's acceptable even though Jesus said that's adultery, too. Drug abuse or embezzlement (especially from the offering plate) are career-enders for any minister, but not divorce. I really don't understand it. Homosexuality is also starting to worm its way into the church as one of those "acceptable" sins. American Christianity needs a wake-up call.

Mountain Man wrote:For a long time now, and for whatever reason, divorce has been embraced by the church as one of those "acceptable" sins. Straight up adultery still marks you as a pariah, but if you divorce your spouse and marry someone else then that's acceptable even though Jesus said that's adultery, too. Drug abuse or embezzlement (especially from the offering plate) are career-enders for any minister, but not divorce. I really don't understand it. Homosexuality is also starting to worm its way into the church as one of those "acceptable" sins. American Christianity needs a wake-up call.

Okay, you make a valid point. I'm all for seeing sin for what it is and dealing with it, and I get that the church hasn't been consistent in that. There is a place for confrontation, but the purpose for that should be to point people to a better way, not to condemn them, and then what happens after that has to be up to the person. You can't railroad someone into repentence. We all sin and fall short, and if we didn't, there would have been no reason for Jesus to die at the cross.

About divorce, I do believe that the only time divorce should be considered is if someone has cheated or someone is being abused and it's get out or die. I get that too many people take the convenient way out and opt to divorce when things get rough. But both people have to want to be married and work things out for it to work, and there is life after divorce. If that wasn't the case there would be a lot of people in trouble. And yes, I do realize God's grace isn't license to just do whatever you want, but God's grace does include divorce.

About homosexuality, of course the Bible is clear that it's wrong. But you can't force them to change, they have to want to, and if you're going to be consistent, you would have to include straight people who sleep with someone they're not married to. As I've said, it's the disobedience to God behind the sin that is the issue. Just my take.

There is a difference between people who haven't accepted salvation through Jesus and people claiming to be Christians and not living that way also. Parking your rear in church every Sunday doesn't necessarily mean you are a Christian. Some of the nastiest people I've ever known were at the church I grew up in, and they were in church all the time.

Last edited by Shell on Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mountain Man wrote:For a long time now, and for whatever reason, divorce has been embraced by the church as one of those "acceptable" sins. Straight up adultery still marks you as a pariah, but if you divorce your spouse and marry someone else then that's acceptable even though Jesus said that's adultery, too. Drug abuse or embezzlement (especially from the offering plate) are career-enders for any minister, but not divorce. I really don't understand it. Homosexuality is also starting to worm its way into the church as one of those "acceptable" sins. American Christianity needs a wake-up call.

Come on Pastor Mountain Man. Get on it. Don't shout this man down when he is preaching' good.

Mountain Man wrote:For a long time now, and for whatever reason, divorce has been embraced by the church as one of those "acceptable" sins. Straight up adultery still marks you as a pariah, but if you divorce your spouse and marry someone else then that's acceptable even though Jesus said that's adultery, too. Drug abuse or embezzlement (especially from the offering plate) are career-enders for any minister, but not divorce. I really don't understand it. Homosexuality is also starting to worm its way into the church as one of those "acceptable" sins. American Christianity needs a wake-up call.

Come on Pastor Mountain Man. Get on it. Don't shout this man down when he is preaching' good.

I don't think anyone is shouting him down, he's right. I was just expanding on it and suggesting we see the big picture when dealing with sin. I agree the church falls short in a lot of ways. America in general needs to wake up and start saying "enough" to the government, but I won't get into that in this thread.

Shell wrote:There is a place for confrontation, but the purpose for that should be to point people to a better way, not to condemn them, and then what happens after that has to be up to the person. You can't railroad someone into repentence. We all sin and fall short, and if we didn't, there would have been no reason for Jesus to die at the cross.

I agree, but if we follow teachings of Jesus, we are to give people three chances to repent: once in private; once in the presence of one or two witnesses; and once in front of the entire church. After that, Jesus says to show them the door and treat them like an unbeliever. Paul puts it more bluntly: "Purge the evil person from among you."

Of course I'm not talking about those who struggle with sin because we all do that. I'm talking about those who openly flaunt their sin and see no need to repent. They are the ones who have no business being in a church.

At any rate, I was simply noting the inconsistent and hypocritical way the modern church deals with sin.

Hey Shell. I wasn't saying anyone here is coming down on him, just quoting Jessie Duplantis. He is funny. A little off, but funny.

On another note...One night, I was mixing monitors for Duplantis and the other major WOF peeps (Hinn, Seville, Dollar, etc, etc) at ORU Maybee Center in Tulsa. He came over during his sermon and began messing with me from the stage. I was standing there in my usual stoic pose, concentrating on what I was doing. He asked me to play some music for him. He then tried to make me laugh, and I held out as long as I could. I gave in. Then he was right back into his act.

Shell wrote:There is a place for confrontation, but the purpose for that should be to point people to a better way, not to condemn them, and then what happens after that has to be up to the person. You can't railroad someone into repentence. We all sin and fall short, and if we didn't, there would have been no reason for Jesus to die at the cross.

I agree, but if we follow teachings of Jesus, we are to give people three chances to repent: once in private; once in the presence of one or two witnesses; and once in front of the entire church. After that, Jesus says to show them the door and treat them like an unbeliever. Paul puts it more bluntly: "Purge the evil person from among you."

Of course I'm not talking about those who struggle with sin because we all do that. I'm talking about those who openly flaunt their sin and see no need to repent. They are the ones who have no business being in a church.

At any rate, I was simply noting the inconsistent and hypocritical way the modern church deals with sin.

There is a difference between people claiming to be Christians and then not living that way and people who haven't accepted the Lord. My thoughts would probably apply more to people who don't claim to be Christians. Yes, the Bible has strong words for people in the church who flaunt sin and refuse to repent.