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Trading has through my efforts in this endeavor and by the huge support of my wife, who I stand in awe of, made me a more disciplined individual in life in general. A maturation process which has no end as I see it and of which I am but a sapling. I have realized the importance of getting the proper sleep, reduce stress through a number of activities (a major work in progress) but mainly focus on the spiritual nature of life and the development of its limbs and organs. Drawing attention away from the all-consuming physical plane with it never ending ceaseless immense pull. A journey not a destination. Connecting ever so infinitesimally with a higher level of existence that defines me/us as truly human apart from the material animal self/kingdom.

Now if I can only get out of this huge draw-down.....lol.... completely serious..................

Ron

It is an axiomatic fact that while you meditate you are speaking with your own spirit. In that state of mind you put certain questions to your spirit and the spirit answers: the light breaks forth and the reality is revealed.

The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.

Not directly. It will be many years before I realize my goals of true wealth building through my trading. Things like material gains, not having to work for money, and being able to do what I want with my time would certainly qualify as an improvement in anyone's life, but that's a long way off for me. But that's fine, I've got nothing but time here.

So while my trading has improved greatly the last few years, it hasn't improved my or my family's life. Yet. But it does give me optimism. I've got a plan here that can work. Just going to take time for it to come to fruition.

Someday, and that day may never come, I'll call upon you to do a service for me.

My wife is extremely supportive. She also knows just enough about what I do to be able to talk to me about it ~ at least enough to let me relax/reduce stress when i need somebody to talk to. She also worked in a trading company for much of her career (in an IT/Database role) so she definitely doesn't question it's potential. I don't think my older child knows or really cares exactly what I do. They definitely realize that it's our primary income, and definitely don't make fun of it though.

Has your trading improved the life of your family?

treydog999

I have improved my life and that of my family through trading. I have built a career in trading and enjoy every minute of it. The intellectual challenge and working with some really bright people is fulfilling.

For background, I am in my early 50’s, have a wife & no kids. My mom is still around and I have one sister.

My wife is great and supports my trading, but I have a strained relationship with my sister. Why? Money, or more precisely a perverse love of money, which as they say is the root of all evil. Certainly true in my case. My sister and her husband have done everything they can to strip my mom of her assets. I’ve been the one defending mom, and yes there are lawyers involved.

My brother in law fancies himself a master of games of chance, but I’d call him a loser. Not just because of his lack of morals, but more taxonomically, he’s a narcissistic idiot who doesn’t understand risk. If he did, he might not be so needy.

I am putting this out to you all not because I have a need to unburden myself, but more because I suspect I'm not alone. I absolutely love trading. It fits me well. I think if markets didn’t exist, I’d probably either be a mathematician or a psychologist, so I’m grateful that when I wake up I can sit down behind this silicon monster and do my thing. Yeah, even on the days that make me want to puke.

But the one thing I hate about trading is that the lure of easy money can really bring out the sh-tbirds. Big Mike has his hands full moderating this site, and more than once I’ve called vendors to task for making unreasonable claims.

But I’m also curious, and if I can want to make a ‘sub-poll’ of sorts. I feel that I’ve worked out a lot of my emotions regarding money and people around me, but it wasn’t easy. I was worth it though, as I do think it held me back. Has anyone else out there been in a similar situation or had a similar experience?

For background, I am in my early 50ís, have a wife & no kids. My mom is still around and I have one sister.

My wife is great and supports my trading, but I have a strained relationship with my sister. Why? Money, or more precisely a perverse love of money, which as they say is the root of all evil. Certainly true in my case. My sister and her husband have done everything they can to strip my mom of her assets. Iíve been the one defending mom, and yes there are lawyers involved.

My brother in law fancies himself a master of games of chance, but Iíd call him a loser. Not just because of his lack of morals, but more taxonomically, heís a narcissistic idiot who doesnít understand risk. If he did, he might not be so needy.

I am putting this out to you all not because I have a need to unburden myself, but more because I suspect I'm not alone. I absolutely love trading. It fits me well. I think if markets didnít exist, Iíd probably either be a mathematician or a psychologist, so Iím grateful that when I wake up I can sit down behind this silicon monster and do my thing. Yeah, even on the days that make me want to puke.

But the one thing I hate about trading is that the lure of easy money can really bring out the sh-tbirds. Big Mike has his hands full moderating this site, and more than once Iíve called vendors to task for making unreasonable claims.

But Iím also curious, and if I can want to make a Ďsub-pollí of sorts. I feel that Iíve worked out a lot of my emotions regarding money and people around me, but it wasnít easy. I was worth it though, as I do think it held me back. Has anyone else out there been in a similar situation or had a similar experience?

It is an axiomatic fact that while you meditate you are speaking with your own spirit. In that state of mind you put certain questions to your spirit and the spirit answers: the light breaks forth and the reality is revealed.

The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.

I like your signature quotes too. Doubt did creep in for a while, but not any more. In fact I'm pretty bullish on me. Got some cool new code in the works too, can't wait to share with the community when it's ready.

Also, if anyone else sees my earlier post and can relate, there's a woman out there by the name of Brene Brown who has a few TED talks as well as some books that I found very helpful & healing.

Speaking of TedTalks. I love this one so much I tell whoever will listen about it from Dr Daniel Amen MD. Makes me wonder if you could ever get your sister to watch it and maybe investigate some regarding it contents. Obviously I don't know her at all but it seems to me she might have something going on Dr Daniel Amen has pointed point in this TedTalk....?????.... I mean when he says it can start 30 to 50 years ahead of time and decision are affected or from poor sleep or a fall/accident years ago as a kid ....some combination of events behaviors etc etc??????????

I would never want to pry into the affairs of others just offering out of a care for humankind.....

Take care my friend,
Ron

It is an axiomatic fact that while you meditate you are speaking with your own spirit. In that state of mind you put certain questions to your spirit and the spirit answers: the light breaks forth and the reality is revealed.

The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.

I'd like to talk about the psychology of having/not having support from your wife (and kids) in your trading business.

First, notice I used the word business. Trading is a business! If you run it any other way, it's just gambling.

From students and friends that I've talked to, it seems many times "the wife and kids" have no appreciation for what you are doing. They don't support it or respect it. Examples would be constant interruptions throughout the day or nagging remarks in the bedroom, etc.

Why do you think this happens?

I think that unless you are a trader yourself, it is about impossible to fully respect the emotional roller-coaster trader's experience, the psychological impact, the stress, the preparation required, the concentration, all of it.

So you cannot completely fault an outsider, even your wife or kids, for not being able to fully appreciate it. They can't, not until they are no longer an outsider!

Needless to say, trying to succeed in trading is hard enough without problems of lack of support from your loved ones.

I think there are a few angles to approach this from. One, if your family is not in a financially stable situation and you are "home all day playing on the computer" instead of out in the "real world looking for a job", then you can expect this is not a good situation and you have to understand that you are risking a lot for your own personal happiness.

But two/second, if you are in a somewhat stable situation, then it is possible your loved ones still do not appreciate or possibly even condone trading because they feel it is just a toy/hobby or even gambling, a "no win" situation, etc.

Assuming the second situation, one possible way to overcome this barrier is to involve your loved ones more. In fact, doing so will almost certainly dramatically improve your trading since most trading mistakes are due to psychological missteps, by thinking things through more carefully so you don't make mistakes when explaining them to others and look like a fool, you'll find that you're actually a much better trader for it.

The first two to three years of your trading business is probably a losing proposition in terms of your bank statement. That's true of any business of any nature. It's also true most businesses fail within two years, just as most traders do. Your wife and kids need to understand that this is a business, and just like if you opened a restaurant, or a fitness club, a computer/electronics storefront, any of these things --- they are all risks and require support as well as "leaps of faith" in order to be successful.

Just like you could hopefully turn to your wife and kids to support you in your new business venture of starting a "fitness club", and get them involved and make them feel like they are contributing, you can also do the same thing with trading!

Most families and outsiders think trading is pure gambling and frown on it. They think you are a degenerate for trading and spending your life savings or not looking out for your family. I think there are two extremes here -- one, it is possible to treat trading like a gambling addiction in which case you don't know when to stop. But it's also possible to treat trading like any normal business. If you started a coffee shop and invested 50k of your own money, and 3 years later it failed, most likely your wife and parents and friends would not disown you. However, in trading, they just might. It's a stigma.

Unless you are willing or capable of doing this on your own, the best way to combat this stigma is by involvement. Not just involvement for the sake of understanding of the complexities of trading by your loved ones, but involvement for the sake them better understanding the pleasure and joy it brings to your life. Most men would do anything for their wife and kids if they knew it would bring them joy and happiness, even at great financial cost. The same is true in reverse, your wife and kids need to give you some freedom and room to experience these things even at great financial cost.

So what are some of the better ways to involve your wife and kids? Well, I hope to hear from you guys! But here are some of my suggestions (although I'm not currently married, and have no kids!)

- Don't just make them watch. Give them something to do.
- What they do needs to have meaning. It needs to have an impact and even consequences.
- Make it consistent. If it is not consistent they cannot appreciate both up's and down's.
- Let them control some of their own trades. Sim at first, but move them to a small cash account. For kids, you can make it tangible (more for teenagers). Rewards for certain percentage gains like clothes, ipod, movies, xbox games, etc. For wife it can be stuff a bit more extravagant, like hit 'xx%' gain and we'll add that new deck in the backyard you wanted, or a weekend get-a-way trip for family, etc etc.