Remember we recently talked about a Brahms play? I can't remember where that thread is and I'm in a hurry now. So anyway, I just learned from one of my Facebook groups that these is an older movie about Brahms. It's titled, "Song of Love" made in 1947 and stars Kathrine Hepburne as Clara. I like these kinds of movies! Why didn't I know about it before?!

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

The description I read about the movie says it is after Robert is dead, so maybe they do some flashbacks or something like that. I really want to watch that movie so I guess I will have to buy it.

I do already have A S omb to Remember. I don't l like it very much, b utut it's been a while since I've watched it so maybe I should give it another chance. Bleeding all over the piano keys makes me a little queasy, though.

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

Thanks, Richard. That looks just like the kind of movie I would enjoy. But too bad I can't understand Russian. You can, though, right? I have an idea - when I'm ready to watch the movie, I will call you on the telephone, put you on speaker phone, and then as I watch and you listen, YOU can translate for me. Okay?

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

My Russian is a bit sketchy but I did get the gist of the film. We (daughter and I) only watched it today, after sending you the link. It is quite good. The scenes in Venice remind me of Canaletto, while the Russian outdoor scenes are straight from a Russian painting. Glinka looks just like his several portraits and there is a scene where he is reclining on a pillow, which is exacly how Repin posthumously pictured him. Pushkin looks like Pushkin and he seemed indeed to have African ancestry, which of course he did (his grandfather or great-grandfather, a little boy, was an Ethiopian prince who had been made a slave by the Turks. He was captured by Peter the Great during one war or another. Peter was so impressed with the boy that he adopted him and sent him to France to be educated at the court of one of the Louises, XV, if I remember rightly.) Gogol also appears and looks just like Gogol, as well as Dargomyzhsky, but the most impressive is Liszt, the child of German parents (originally List) who could not even speak Hungarian, who appears speaking perfect Russian, even getting the declentions right! (Maybe he can interpret for you ). That is a very funny scene, where he improvises on a theme from Ruslan and Lyudmila: hands high in the air and dropping on the keys, hair flying and so on.

The intersting thing is that Glinka's 1st opera was originally called "Ivan Susanin" (a hero who helped to expel the Poles from Russia - Whenever you hear Chopin whining about "Russian butchers occupying Warsaw", remember the "Polish butchers occupying Moscow" at an earlier date!). The Emperor (the correct title: the title "Tsar" was abolished by Peter the Great, being substituted by "emperor") was so impressed he insisted in its being renamed "A Life for the Tsar" (the action takes place before Peter). The Bolshies took exception to that and reverted to the original tiltle, but, in the film, the opera is renamed by the Emperor "A life for the Tsar". And this film was made in the '50s.

Give it a try: it is complete and free, but beware it takes 45 seconds to start!

_________________Richard Willmer"Please do not shoot the pianistHe is doing his best."Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville

If Liszt is in the movie, then for sure I want to see the movie! But actually, I don't really have time to watch a whole movie these days unless it rains a lot, or my piano croaks. Still, I'd like to see that part with Liszt so maybe I'll put on the movie while I am doing work on the computer and try to skip ahead. Thank you for all the nice information, Richard!

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

Thanks, Richard. That looks just like the kind of movie I would enjoy. But too bad I can't understand Russian. You can, though, right? I have an idea - when I'm ready to watch the movie, I will call you on the telephone, put you on speaker phone, and then as I watch and you listen, YOU can translate for me. Okay?

Monica, just invite a bunch of friends over and everyone make up the dialogue as the movie rolls along. That activity is particularly good with plenty of wine.

My Russian is a bit sketchy but I did get the gist of the film. (...) Gogol also appears and looks just like Gogol, as well as Dargomyzhsky, but the most impressive is Liszt, the child of German parents (originally List) who could not even speak Hungarian, who appears speaking perfect Russian, even getting the declentions right!

That's because Liszt is in fact played by Sviatoslav Richter in a wig..

If Liszt is in the movie, then for sure I want to see the movie! But actually, I don't really have time to watch a whole movie these days unless it rains a lot, or my piano croaks. Still, I'd like to see that part with Liszt so maybe I'll put on the movie while I am doing work on the computer and try to skip ahead. Thank you for all the nice information, Richard!

I was not voicing an opinion and I was not comparing them. What you say, Eddy, reflects what others have said: that Iturbi was a good pianist. They also add that he stuggles to be recognised as a serious musician because of his work for the cinema. How would the musical world react if Hamelin were suddenly to star in a film?

It shows how things were (and still are, thought there too the road leads down) different in Russia: That Richter could do that and that Khvorostovsky can sing popular Russian songs without any compromise and without ceassing for a moment from being a trained baritone.

The other day I came across a crooner, this one from Azerbaidjan, Muslim Mugamaev, singing a popular song by Khrennikov (!) an otherwise serious composer who wrote symphonies and concerti (I am not discussing his political stance). Then, some days later, I came across the very same singer, who turned out to be a conservatoire-trained baritone signing Largo al Factotum as well as an Aria from the Marriage of Figaro - and singing them as they ought to be sung and not "crossover" repertoire.

_________________Richard Willmer"Please do not shoot the pianistHe is doing his best."Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville

Remember we recently talked about a Brahms play? I can't remember where that thread is and I'm in a hurry now. So anyway, I just learned from one of my Facebook groups that these is an older movie about Brahms. It's titled, "Song of Love" made in 1947 and stars Kathrine Hepburne as Clara. I like these kinds of movies! Why didn't I know about it before?!

Hi Monica, that's definitely one of the Hollywood greats - I have that on DVD. Fortunately, they've added technicolor to the 1947 movie... It doesn't state anywhere in the movie, but John Rubinstein said that his father, Artur Rubinstein, sound tracked the piano music in The Song of Love. If I remember, the sound track contains Schumann's Traumerie, Dedication, Arabesque, and Concerto in A minor and some music of Brahms's Cradle Song and Rhapsody in G Minor. As far as movies go about Brahms and Clara Schumann, characters portrayed in this movie is what I associate with their relationship and intentions.

As an aside, I always thought that Raymond Burr (Perry Mason in the later years) would make an excellent aging Johannes Brahms due to his striking resemblance...

_________________"Nobility of spirit has more to do with simplicity than ostentation, wisdom rather than wealth, commitment rather than ambition." ~Riccardo Muti

Monica, just invite a bunch of friends over and everyone make up the dialogue as the movie rolls along. That activity is particularly good with plenty of wine. Scott

Yes, that would be very fun. I'd love to do that and I have lots of wine .

88man wrote:

Pianolady wrote:

Quote:

Remember we recently talked about a Brahms play? I can't remember where that thread is and I'm in a hurry now. So anyway, I just learned from one of my Facebook groups that these is an older movie about Brahms. It's titled, "Song of Love" made in 1947 and stars Kathrine Hepburne as Clara. I like these kinds of movies! Why didn't I know about it before?!

Hi Monica, that's definitely one of the Hollywood greats - I have that on DVD. Fortunately, they've added technicolor to the 1947 movie... It doesn't state anywhere in the movie, but John Rubinstein said that his father, Artur Rubinstein, sound tracked the piano music in The Song of Love. If I remember, the sound track contains Schumann's Traumerie, Dedication, Arabesque, and Concerto in A minor and some music of Brahms's Cradle Song and Rhapsody in G Minor. As far as movies go about Brahms and Clara Schumann, characters portrayed in this movie is what I associate with their relationship and intentions.

As an aside, I always thought that Raymond Burr (Perry Mason in the later years) would make an excellent aging Johannes Brahms due to his striking resemblance...

Hi George - hope you are having a nice summer so far (well...it's almost summer. Feels like it, anyway).

So now I know I am going to buy this movie! I did a quick search for it online, but can't find a colorized version. Would you happen to know who sells it?And you're right about Raymond Burr looking like Brahms!

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

Thanks, Monica. Actually, the kick off to summer started Memorial Day. As long as there's no snow, I am happy. The sails are up, and I am waiting on a new hand-made telescope to use in the dark skies on the Cape. I hope you have a fantastic summer too and hope that Paris: In The Footsteps of Chopin is in the horizon?!...

I have the B&W version, but I read somewhere that the color version was in the making, along with other 1940s movies that they have been releasing. They're going down the list rather slowly and in stages, re-releasing such these old time favorites on blu-ray, such as Wizard of Oz, and Sound of Music. In the meantime, the B&W version has stood the test of time very well and takes nothing away from the cinematography. Enjoy the movie! You may have to opt for wine, instead of popcorn for this one...

_________________"Nobility of spirit has more to do with simplicity than ostentation, wisdom rather than wealth, commitment rather than ambition." ~Riccardo Muti

Thanks, Monica. Actually, the kick off to summer started Memorial Day. As long as there's no snow, I am happy. The sails are up, and I am waiting on a new hand-made telescope to use in the dark skies on the Cape. I hope you have a fantastic summer too and hope that Paris: In The Footsteps of Chopin is in the horizon?!...

Wow, that telescope sound so neat! And yes, I'm starting to plan. I recently bought a Paris guide book. I'm brushing up a little on my German these days for my job, but I should really start learning some French!

88man wrote:

Enjoy the movie! You may have to opt for wine, instead of popcorn for this one...

Ok, twist my arm....

@Richard - I take it you are not a fan of 'colorized' movies....

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

Yay, the Bruins finally won a game... I can put away the Marche Funebre for at least another 2 games.

Wow, I didn't know you spoke German. Sounds tough... Great news about Paris! The best travel guides I've used are the Eyewitness Travel Guides. I am crazy about travel and I think I have about 20 of their guide books - all very good! They give a brief history, overview, interior maps, beautiful color plates, street maps, recommendations, food, lodging, events, points of interest, AND VERY USEFUL French phrases, etc... Here's the one for Paris:

I could teach you French, but I think it it's too late now - just use a few phrases from the guide books. Don't worry, they speak English quite well there. But, if you really want to blend in, pick up a nice scarf from Hermes and they'll just think you have a different dialect. BTW, I don't know if you're also heading to South of France because I'll be in Cote d'Azur late summer?...

_________________"Nobility of spirit has more to do with simplicity than ostentation, wisdom rather than wealth, commitment rather than ambition." ~Riccardo Muti

I could teach you French, but I think it it's too late now - just use a few phrases from the guide books. Don't worry, they speak English quite well there. But, if you really want to blend in, pick up a nice scarf from Hermes and they'll just think you have a different dialect. BTW, I don't know if you're also heading to South of France because I'll be in Cote d'Azur late summer?...

Which Paris are you talking about? Paris, Texas? In all the years I have lived in Paris whenever I heard English it was spoken by foreigners.

_________________Richard Willmer"Please do not shoot the pianistHe is doing his best."Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville

Yay, the Bruins finally won a game... I can put away the Marche Funebre for at least another 2 games.

Funny! I know, our baseball teams stink this year too! Oh well....

Thanks for that book suggestion, George. It looks so nice - the way it categorizes everything and even in the back it has those French phrases you mentioned - along with the phonetical listing too. But really, all I need to know how to say is, "where is Chopin?"

As far as when I'm going - maybe I confused you - I'm going next year (for my ??th birthday ). But I don't know which month yet - could be anytime from April to September - I'm not sure what month would be best. That's why I'm starting to plan now. I like to research Everything so I get good hotels and all that. Plus, I'll be going to Italy on the same trip so I have to figure out basically two trips.

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

That's easy, tell the cab driver, "Cimetière du Père Lachaise, s'il vous plaît." On the plackard, look for plot: Division 11, No. 10. If you have your GPS, type in (lat/lon): 48.86025, 2.39263. M. Chopin will be waiting for you. You can't miss it, it's the only grave in the section with beautiful flowers. Take an ipod with you to get you in the mood along the way.

Chopin's Paris:1. Salle Pleyel: debut of Op. 9a, b to Parisian public - Sensation! befriends Camille Pleyel. It's truly a beautiful hall!2. Arcades of the Palais Royal: Chopin was a frequent customer3. Eglise de Madeleine: 3000 attended his funeral. They sang the Mozart Requieum (female singers hid behind a black veil) Now females are welcome!4. Tuileries Garden: Palace burned down in 1871. Chopin played for Louis-Phillipe then Duke of Orléans.5. Musée de la Vie Romantique: Ary Scheffer's home 1830-1840s paintings of Chopin, Sand, Liszt, Delacroix, etc.6. 9 Square d'Orléans: Residence. Sand is #5 I think?? 7. 12 Place Vendôme: last residence. Now Bulgari occupies 10-12 - Zoinks!8. Salle de concert du Conservatoire de Paris: He played there, despite his aversion to the public. Old hall restored close to original.9. Père Lachaise: Go alone, that's what I did. I didn't want bavardage around me for something this memorable, powerful, and moving. Make it count!10. Musée Adam Mickiewicz: I mentioned this Polish museum in detail in another thread, located 6 Quai d'Orléans in Île Saint-Louis. You'll find a lot of Chopin memorabilia, letters, manuscripts, and his death mask.

Any time from April to September is good. Don't go too, early in April as I did once because the flowers along the Champs de Mars won't be planted in front of the Tour Eiffel. It's a beautiful site. Flowers are a big deal in Paris. I always go to Europe in May or September to avoid the crowds and brats. The weather seems to be perfect for promenades during that time. For hotels in Paris, I usually stay at the Hotel Scribe - centrally located and walking distance to the Opera, shopping, Olympia, Cafe de Paris - love that place!

Wow, and what's the theme for Italy?... that's a lot in one trip, but if you need any help with itineraries, transportation, etc., let me know... Here's one of my favorite series called "Charming Small Hotel Guides." I actually took their advice and stayed one of the recommended hotels in Amalfi - breathtaking!

Oh George, you are making me so excited, I can hardly stand it! I can't wait to go to Paris!!

That's a nice idea about going to Chopin's grave by myself. I think I'll just sit there for a while... And all those other places are on my list. I also want to find the place - I think it's a private mansion now - could be a hotel - it's near Notre Dame. It's where Princess C (long polish name, I can't remember it right now). Chopin frequented there - I have it written down but it's at home.

Hotel Scribe - Wow, that looks like a beautiful hotel! I'll look into it. Also the Cafe de Paris - funny, I wrote a little book awhile ago and one scene takes place there (only it's in the year 1839 and the cafe was there, but I didn't know what it looks like inside, so I made it up. Will be fun to see what it really looks like now.

Thank you very much for all the information on books and places to see!

Originally, the trip was supposed to be just Paris, but it has blossomed into a trip to Italy too. So instead of one week, I will have to take two weeks. Will be VERY EXPENSIVE! I don't know exactly where I'm going yet in Italy. Probably Rome and Venice.

@Richard - I'm leaning more towards September. It's usually a nice month and you're right about all the kids being back in school. But then again, the end of April would be nice too. Then I could sing the song "April in Paris...."

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

I have an extended lunch today. Here it is, I found that thread from July 2009 about the Polish museum. The princess is Czartoryska. viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3613

88man wrote:

Quote:

Chopin's residence at 9 Square d'Orleans (80, rue Taitbout) was during the time when he was with Georges Sand. She lived in No. 5, and his apartment was No. 9 on the first floor. It's one room with a parlor. Hershey Felder has romanticized it in his "Monsieur Chopin," but IMHO Chopin's definitive residence is the sunny, 12 Place Vendôme.

Princess Marcelina Czartoryska[*] was the best pupil of Chopin, and was one of the people at his bedside when he died at his Place Vendôme residence. Too bad that she "couldn't" become a professional pianist because of her rank, she could have created another Chopin school, one more missionary to his music...

I don't think Princess Czartoryska and Adam Mickiewicz were related, however they did live around the same time. Adam Mickiewicz married Celina Szymanska, daughter of Maria Szymanska, the famous pianist and composer. However, Mickiewicz did travel with Prince Czartoryski by heading a legion in Istanbul to fight in the Crimean War. Mickiewicz died there in 1855.

Adam Mickiewicz is to the Poles, what Shakespeare is the British, and what Goethe is to the Germans. Like many Poles living in Paris, he lived in exile. The Polish exiles and immigrants still feared the Russians since Paris was a political cauldron at the time, so any lavish displays or soirees had to be done cautiously.

Chopin revered Mickiewicz; he played for Mickiewicz when he was ailing in 1848. Schumann speculated that Chopin's 4 Ballades were written after 4 poems by Adam Mickiewicz. But it's difficult to authenticate that statement since the music is too free in form to attach any affiliation to that speculation, despite the fact that Chopin was a great student of Polish literature. It was Alfred Cortot, et. al. that perpetuated this notion.

The Musée Adam Mickiewicz archives the emmigrant history of Poles and the adjoining library contains books, maps, literature, and of course, Chopin memorabilia. It's open 2-6pm, and is closed mid July - mid September, so June is your best bet unless the schedule has changed? Do check with the museum... Bon Voyage!

I haven't seen the princess's home, but the home you mentioned near the Notre Dame must be the Polish museum - it's the house of Adam Mickiewicz. Chopin did frequent there. The museum address I gave earlier, 6 Quai d'Orléans in Île Saint-Louis, is near Notre Dame.

Rome and Venice will be fantastic too! If you can swing it, I would include Florence in between the two cities. You'll need at least 2wks+. I don't think you'll ever question how expensive the trip was after you get back so don't worry. So much to see, so little time... Planning is half the fun on these trips! Good Luck!

George

_________________"Nobility of spirit has more to do with simplicity than ostentation, wisdom rather than wealth, commitment rather than ambition." ~Riccardo Muti

Last edited by 88man on Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:28 am, edited 3 times in total.

That's funny, George, we were talking about this same thing two years ago!

Anyway...Yes, Princess Czartoryska is the name I was trying to remember. And the place where she lived and where Chopin visited often was called the Hotel Lambert. It has a different address than the museum, but maybe it is nearby.

Here is a lot of information on the Hotel Lambert - also great photos:

Florence, Italy - I am considering that too. I just don't know yet how many days I'll have to do everything. Planning is fun like you say, but also a little overwhelming - at least right now since I'm in the early stages.

@Eddy - I went to Germany a few years ago to visit my aunts, uncles, and cousins. But there are still so many other places in Germany I'd like to see. Oh, now I'm getting depressed... if only I could do nothing else but travel (and play piano)

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

Of all the times I've been to Paris, I've never seen the Lambert. Thanks for the great info and photos! What an illustrious history. Both the Lambert AND the Musée de Adam Mickiewicz are located Île Saint Louis (not Île de la Cité which has the Notre Dame), and yes they are nearby. They're only 3 blocks from each other. It should be a pleasant 3 minute walk along the Seine. Monica, just remember the Museum is open on Thursdays and some Saturdays (I think?) by appointment. The museum number is 33(0)1 43 54 35 61. I am very excited for you! You'll have to start a thread on all your discoveries and experiences!

_________________"Nobility of spirit has more to do with simplicity than ostentation, wisdom rather than wealth, commitment rather than ambition." ~Riccardo Muti

Monica, just remember the Museum is open on Thursdays and some Saturdays (I think?) by appointment. The museum number is 33(0)1 43 54 35 61. I am very excited for you! You'll have to start a thread on all your discoveries and experiences!

Oh, see? it's that kind of information I'm going to have to really pay attention to. Thank you! Also thank you again for all the helpful information. And yes, I'll start a thread when the time comes.

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

Speaking of Composer Movies (at least I think that that is where this thread started). A Beethoven movie "Immortal Beloved" is showing on SCINE (one of the ShowTime channels -- 353 on our DishTV). It is about as improbable as "Amadeus" but it has its moments. And there is all of that Beethoven music throughout.

I saw that it's playing on my cable network too - On Demand. I'd love to watch it again. However, I received the movie I had ordered about Brahms last Saturday, so I want to watch it too. I just need to find some time....

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

If I could get a time machine, I'd definitely visit - first, Chopin. Followed by Granados, Liszt, Mozart, and Beethoven (not in that particular order). Agree - Beethoven would be a very very! interesting person to hang out with for a while and get a sense of his spirit firsthand

_________________"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

If I could get a time machine, I'd definitely visit - first, Chopin. Followed by Granados, Liszt, Mozart, and Beethoven (not in that particular order). Agree - Beethoven would be a very very! interesting person to hang out with for a while and get a sense of his spirit firsthand

I saw that it's playing on my cable network too - On Demand. I'd love to watch it again. However, I received the movie I had ordered about Brahms last Saturday, so I want to watch it too. I just need to find some time....

Trying to whatch this just made me firmer in my resolve not to attend any film made later than 1965.

Am I alone, but mosly I find that in these films I would prefer the twaddle to stop so i can hear the music instead?

_________________Richard Willmer"Please do not shoot the pianistHe is doing his best."Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville

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