(24-10-2013 06:40 AM)excubitor Wrote: You are wrong. There is a God and hell is a real place.

I might as well contend that Narnia is a real place, and that Aslan is real. I have the same amount of evidence as our cheerful friend "Excubitor" here.

I suppose he is just doing the "Christian" thing though, you know, throwing the fear of Hell right back into your face, and not bothering to console you about how you feel. I am sure Christ himself would be proud.

(24-10-2013 06:40 AM)excubitor Wrote: You don't. You tell a priest that you have committed a mortal sin and need absolution. He will baptise you and confirm you into the Catholic church.

I recommend avoiding Catholic priests, even if you don't have children. It is unwise to associate with an organization guilty of systematic child rape, and then the covering up of their crimes. Not to mention things like, The Inquisition, and Witch Burnings, you know, little things like that.

(24-10-2013 06:40 AM)excubitor Wrote: After your conversion to the Catholic faith you raise them as Catholic Christians and take them to mass every day. Trying to raise your children as Christians if you are not a Christian will not work. Sooner rather than later they will realise that you are a phony and will reject Christianity anyway. The sins of the fathers are visited upon the children, you are condemning your children and your children's children to lives of disbelief unless you repent.

Essentially you should condemn your children to the same hell on earth that you have lived through yourself, only slightly worse, as Catholics. The same indoctrination, the same doubts, the same pains, the same fears of Hell.

Excubitor is a great example of what religion is all about. They don't care about your family. They don't care about your happiness. They don't care about your pain. They care about one thing only, whether or not you do exactly what they say. They are only interested in furthering their survival. You don't matter to them.

(24-10-2013 06:40 AM)excubitor Wrote: Trying to raise your children as Christians if you are not a Christian will not work.

Well at least this part makes sense.

(24-10-2013 06:40 AM)excubitor Wrote: A fear of God and a fear of hell is a good thing. This will save you if it causes you to repent and turn back to God. True atheists do not fear God or hell. The fact that you are suffering anxiety and fear is proof that you do believe in your heart even though your head is trying to convince you otherwise.

"True Atheists" is a made up name. Nobody ever says that. Excubitor has a new dictionary addition for us.

As you can tell with every condescending word dripping out of Excubitor's mouth, fear and anxiety are tools for him, and the church, to manipulate you into doing what they want. It's control on a basic level, that began the first day your indoctrination began. If they were concerned with your happiness, or well being, they wouldn't be so set on adding you to their organizations, just another notch on their belts.

Nobody ever said these people sucked at manipulation. Why do you think so many of us Atheists go through exactly what you do, Jasozz? Millions of us all around the world begin our deconversions as believers in a religion. Millions of us feel fear and anxiety, because it was taught to us. Millions of us make it out, and live happily, free of those who would bind us to their will.

We did it. So can you.

Thanks. I'm pretty confident looking forward as long as there are others who have been through the same thing.

And yeah, even when I as at my peak of Christianity, I still thought being a Catholic was probably the worst thing I could do with my life. All the judgment, rules, ways of life, who could want that? Sorry man.

(23-10-2013 06:28 PM)houseofcantor Wrote: And wtf, no point? What about "amazing girl" and "potential kids?" People must create their own meaning. Those that claim "god is the point" are doing the same thing, creating their own meaning, only they're doing it with training wheels. It's like they're using a coloring book whereas the atheist uses a sketch book.

(24-10-2013 10:20 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote: I might as well contend that Narnia is a real place, and that Aslan is real. I have the same amount of evidence as our cheerful friend "Excubitor" here.

I suppose he is just doing the "Christian" thing though, you know, throwing the fear of Hell right back into your face, and not bothering to console you about how you feel. I am sure Christ himself would be proud.

I recommend avoiding Catholic priests, even if you don't have children. It is unwise to associate with an organization guilty of systematic child rape, and then the covering up of their crimes. Not to mention things like, The Inquisition, and Witch Burnings, you know, little things like that.

Essentially you should condemn your children to the same hell on earth that you have lived through yourself, only slightly worse, as Catholics. The same indoctrination, the same doubts, the same pains, the same fears of Hell.

Excubitor is a great example of what religion is all about. They don't care about your family. They don't care about your happiness. They don't care about your pain. They care about one thing only, whether or not you do exactly what they say. They are only interested in furthering their survival. You don't matter to them.

Well at least this part makes sense.

"True Atheists" is a made up name. Nobody ever says that. Excubitor has a new dictionary addition for us.

As you can tell with every condescending word dripping out of Excubitor's mouth, fear and anxiety are tools for him, and the church, to manipulate you into doing what they want. It's control on a basic level, that began the first day your indoctrination began. If they were concerned with your happiness, or well being, they wouldn't be so set on adding you to their organizations, just another notch on their belts.

Nobody ever said these people sucked at manipulation. Why do you think so many of us Atheists go through exactly what you do, Jasozz? Millions of us all around the world begin our deconversions as believers in a religion. Millions of us feel fear and anxiety, because it was taught to us. Millions of us make it out, and live happily, free of those who would bind us to their will.

We did it. So can you.

Thanks. I'm pretty confident looking forward as long as there are others who have been through the same thing.

And yeah, even when I as at my peak of Christianity, I still thought being a Catholic was probably the worst thing I could do with my life. All the judgment, rules, ways of life, who could want that? Sorry man.

Yeah, Catholic pretty much sucks...some of us make it out.

Welcome, and sorry about Qubert...our recent looney theist just happens to be of the Catholic variety.

(24-10-2013 10:23 AM)Jasozz Wrote: Thanks. I'm pretty confident looking forward as long as there are others who have been through the same thing.

And yeah, even when I as at my peak of Christianity, I still thought being a Catholic was probably the worst thing I could do with my life. All the judgment, rules, ways of life, who could want that? Sorry man.

Yeah, Catholic pretty much sucks...some of us make it out.

Welcome, and sorry about Qubert...our recent looney theist just happens to be of the Catholic variety.

It's no biggie. I should've expected some responses such as that. Thanks for the welcome

(24-10-2013 08:42 AM)Jasozz Wrote: I want to get this back on topic to some degree after that horrific derailing...

For anyone else who has gone through deconversion...

Did you wind up as atheist or agnostic? Did you explore other religions?

For me, with how much I overthink things, I cannot be sure of anything unless I can be 100% sure on it, which makes it difficult to hedge my bets on science just as much as a religion. It always goes back to the unexplained parts on both sides, mainly with creation.

Can you be happy with agnosticism? I don't know that I could be comfortable NOT believing in SOMETHING, even if it were the belief in nothing, but I know myself well enough to know that I probably won't be able to fully settle on something.

I agree with alot of the VIEWS of many religions, such as Buddhism, but when it comes down to the THEISTIC points of it, I can't usually stake myself in it.

Anyone with similar views or experiences?

Don't panic Jasozz, you're going through withdraw and that itself can be distressing and fraught with anxiety. You will find many threads on this forum dealing with much of what you may be currently going through... try here for starters.

You can also learn quite a bit from just hanging out on the regular forums and getting to know how it feels to relax and just be YOU - no belief required. You seem like an already thinking individual; though no one here will tell you what to think, some might help you with how to think and provide tips on logic and reasoning... what you think, is entirely up to you.

You've brushed off Excubicle pretty well but be advised, you may encounter a few more trolls here and in life - they can be even uglier. It's good to keep your mind in a safe spot while you are still forming it. Dom is right, it takes time.

Jasozz, you've spent all your life learning about and loving something that isn't there... so, no time like the present to get on with real life and learn about something far more important to the future; your self. You will find your eyes opened to amazing things... just look at a sunset or up at the night sky or in your lover's eyes or in a mirror.

Welcome to the forum.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein

(24-10-2013 10:27 AM)Anjele Wrote: Yeah, Catholic pretty much sucks...some of us make it out.

Welcome, and sorry about Qubert...our recent looney theist just happens to be of the Catholic variety.

It's no biggie. I should've expected some responses such as that. Thanks for the welcome

Hey welcome to reality please ignore those who are close to deconverting and are scared to death at the thought of life without a God (exzibt there is a prime example, very weak in faith needs to have everyone and everything just so to maintain his very fragile world)

The best thing you can do in your situation is wait. Think about things there is no need to rush and tell anyone anything about your personal metaphysics. Once you feel confident in yourself (most importantly) and what you do and do not believe then if you want to inform family and friends be ready for at least a few people trying to bum rush you (you have just witnessed a horribly blundered attempt but most people are better at it)

You are very lucky in having someone you love who you can confide this in. There are several people on this forum that have theistic partners and the reactions vary from totally cool with it to filing for divorce so at least that is one variable you don't have to worry about. Plus you have found a pretty good community of fellow nonbelievers that have been through exactly what you are facing and can help you to go through the process as easily as is possible. Anyway welcome to TTA hope you enjoy your stay.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote: America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense

(24-10-2013 08:42 AM)Jasozz Wrote: I want to get this back on topic to some degree after that horrific derailing...

For anyone else who has gone through deconversion...

Did you wind up as atheist or agnostic? Did you explore other religions?

For me, with how much I overthink things, I cannot be sure of anything unless I can be 100% sure on it, which makes it difficult to hedge my bets on science just as much as a religion. It always goes back to the unexplained parts on both sides, mainly with creation.

Can you be happy with agnosticism? I don't know that I could be comfortable NOT believing in SOMETHING, even if it were the belief in nothing, but I know myself well enough to know that I probably won't be able to fully settle on something.

I agree with alot of the VIEWS of many religions, such as Buddhism, but when it comes down to the THEISTIC points of it, I can't usually stake myself in it.

Anyone with similar views or experiences?

Don't panic Jasozz, you're going through withdraw and that itself can be distressing and fraught with anxiety. You will find many threads on this forum dealing with much of what you may be currently going through... try here for starters.

You can also learn quite a bit from just hanging out on the regular forums and getting to know how it feels to relax and just be YOU - no belief required. You seem like an already thinking individual; though, no one here will tell you what to think, some might help you with how to think and provide tips on logic and reasoning... but what you think, is entirely up to you.

You've brushed off Excubicle pretty well but be advised, you may encounter a few more trolls here and in life - they can be even uglier. It's good to keep your mind in a safe spot while you are still forming it. Dom is right, it takes time.

Jasozz, you've spent all your life learning about and loving something that isn't there... so, no time like the present to get on with real life and learn about something far more important to the future; your self. You will find your eyes opened to amazing things... just look a sunset or up at the night sky or in your lover's eyes or in a mirror.

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks for the welcome

I've definitely taken to checking out the forum you suggested, might even put a thread there when this one dies off.

And yeah, this whole deconversion thing is sort of a fresh wound right now, so I probably took the whole "hang yourself and go to hell thing" a bit too personally.

(24-10-2013 10:29 AM)Jasozz Wrote: It's no biggie. I should've expected some responses such as that. Thanks for the welcome

Hey welcome to reality please ignore those who are close to deconverting and are scared to death at the thought of life without a God (exzibt there is a prime example, very weak in faith needs to have everyone and everything just so to maintain his very fragile world)

The best thing you can do in your situation is wait. Think about things there is no need to rush and tell anyone anything about your personal metaphysics. Once you feel confident in yourself (most importantly) and what you do and do not believe then if you want to inform family and friends be ready for at least a few people trying to bum rush you (you have just witnessed a horribly blundered attempt but most people are better at it)

You are very lucky in having someone you love who you can confide this in. There are several people on this forum that have theistic partners and the reactions vary from totally cool with it to filing for divorce so at least that is one variable you don't have to worry about. Plus you have found a pretty good community of fellow nonbelievers that have been through exactly what you are facing and can help you to go through the process as easily as is possible. Anyway welcome to TTA hope you enjoy your stay.

Its all good

I definitely came into this expecting alot of fallout from my family/friends who are believers, but this community has made a world of difference in just the 16-odd hours I've been on it.

I look forward to growing and learning with you guys and gals.

EDIT: I keep forgetting to acknowledge, yes, my girlfriend has been amazing. She stuck by my side when I was going through crippling anxiety attacks, and has been through a form of deconversion herself, and her insight is invaluable.

I was implying that deconversion involves transitioning from belief in and need of absolutes to understanding of and acceptance of uncertainties.

It is a change of world view. It all ties together.

Yeah, I think I understand that.

Its just kind of weird. I honestly don't intend to try and deconvert anyone in my family, because they're happy believing what they do, and that's great. I just want to get somewhere that I can be SECURE in my thoughts about life and the universe.

And yeah, I forgot my towel. Long story short, you can't shoot a Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster without expecting to wake up at least two continents away. In the panic I must've left it at home.

You'll be OK as long as you don't panic.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.