If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Dear members,

In order to show respect towards someones wishes, regarding if they want to get surprised by the issue of the manga, that wasn't showed yet in the anime series, please place the proper "Spoiler" prefix on your thread, whenever you create one that contains any spoilers. If you do decide to post any spoiler at all, while creating the thread, in the drop-down box before the thread title, again, please make sure you selected "Spoiler" as the thread prefix.

Re: Kakashi DID know he had MS

Kakashi DID NOT know he had MS at that time when he killed Rin and Obito was around.

Kakashi KNOW and Understand about sharingan.
It was at the time when Itachi and Kisame went to Leaf Village.
Then Itachi saw Kakashi (sharingan) eye.
Itachi had no choice but to use tsukiyomi sharingan on Kakashi instead.
Then Kakashi went into DARKNESS.
Same as Obito, who went into DARKNESS (with Rin body)
It is the DARKNESS that can activate many types of sharingan.

Where am i (Obito & Sasuke) = in DARKNESS
It is all about DARKNESS..........................................

Note:
During the time when Itachi encountered Kakashi during the rescue Gaara.
Itachi eyes looked downward to avoid direct contact with NEW Kakashi's sharingan eye.

Re: Kakashi DID know he had MS

[QUOTE=Namikaze Haru;8705367]Its just stupid to say that he did not know he had it. Kakashi and obito unlocked it at the same time, however kakashi fainted due to his low chakra levels whereas obito is an uchiha with senju dna. at that time it took kakashi a lot of chakra just to use the normal sharingan, the mangekyou was off limits seeing as he fainted just by awakening it.

after facing itachi's mangekyou he decided to improve he chakra control during the timeskip and has now improved it even further, that why recently kakashi is now able to spam kamui. if u had watched closely all his improvements during the timeskip were in order to be able to fight itachi (mangekyou, faster hand seals etc.)

remember when we first thought sasuke awakened his sharingan against haku, but after a flashback we saw he awakened it during the uchiha massacre against itachi. but looking back to the haku fight you actually notice he already knew he had it.

[/QUOTE/]

*****.but when you say HE trained himself to use fast hand seals, i believe that is false.i may be wrong.youve obviously done some research. however i thought the reason for his hand seals being so fast was because he had his sharingan..also this comes with a question,if he is the "copy ninja" why cant he copy other MS abilities.i know without both eyes the power is limited like no susanoo.but shouldnt he be able to use the others?

Re: Kakashi DID know he had MS

Originally Posted by Namikaze Haru

this why i made this this thread...he DID know he had it. why does he say "last time, i was unprepared, but im not like that this time". the only thing that changed between the timeskip was his MS but if he didn't know he had it before, he would not have said " I was unprepared"

Maybe by "Unprepared" he meant his skills? Or something else, how do you know he meant the mangekyou? And if what you're saying is true, that means he was "unprepared" for the whole of the first season of naruto xDD

Re: Kakashi DID know he had MS

part of the reason kakashi said he was prepared is because he asked guy how he fought itachi. having kamui does not protect you against tsukuyomi which is why he asked guy. and i said all his improvements which are more than just the MS.

This is what you said:

this why i made this this thread...he DID know he had it. why does he say "last time, i was unprepared, but im not like that this time". the only thing that changed between the timeskip was his MS but if he didn't know he had it before, he would not have said " I was unprepared"

Obviously you're saying that his Mangekyou Sharingan prepared him to face Itachi. If he was "unprepared" to fight Itachi and got mirked by Itachi's Tsukiyomi, obviously him being prepared now would mean what if the only difference is him having his Mangekyou? From your statements one can assume that you're drawing the conclusion that Kakashi having the Mangekyou 'counters/nullifies' Itachi's if previously he was "unprepared" but now he isn't and you claimed the only difference is the Mangekyou.

This therefore, makes no sense, you claim that he knew he had it this whole time but he waited until after Itachi mirked him wth it to train himself to be capable of using it. Let me tell you why this makes no sense: Jiraiya told him ahead of time that Akatsuki was coming for Naruto, including Itachi, so already there was the possibility of Kakashi having to fight Itachi. Kakashi had already assumed that Itachi unlocked the Mangekyou, hence why he said he will have to prepare for the worse since Itachi is a true heir of the Sharingan. Then Kakashi states that the only thing to counter the Mangekyou is another Sharingan eye... If he knew this ahead of time, why wouldn't he have trained himself to be capable of wielding the Mangekyou (having an evolved Sharingan would only boost his chances no?) to counter Itachi's eye if he thought that was what was necessary?

u have misunderstood so many points its funny. No one said anything about kakashi's chakra levels decreasing. u say kakashi spammed chidori during the kakashi gaiden yet he only used it twice. when people say kakashi has low chakra levels they are referring to the fact that his chakra is drained by his sharingan. before he gained his shraingan did u ever once see kakashi suffering from using too much chakra because in fact his chakra levels are indeed pretty good. but when he got the sharingan, because he is not a uchiha he costs him almost twice as much chakra to use it. its pretty simple, that whys (EVRYONE KNOWS THIS) he keeps it covered when not in use.

It's called drawing a parallel, and since he had his Sharingan in the Gaiden, he used Chidori twice (atleast from what they showcased --immediately after Obito died, and then when him and Rin were surrounded) so that still puts his chakra levels with the Sharingan, better than Sasuke's. I was establishing that his chakra levels were considerably high and people are overexaggerating the chakra drain from Kakashi using Sharingan. We've never seen Kakashi fight with the Sharingan and then say, "shit im done for". We see his is out of commission for a while after fighting Zabuza because he is rusty, he even admits to not being in shape. Even when fighting Itachi, after all that countering he wasn't in poor condition due to drain (it was that explosion that mirked half his body). The only thing he ever stated was that "I tire easily" but easily is judgemental and vague; he could easily be saying, "compared to an Uchiha, this takes more of a toll on my body..." amongst other things.

about the haku fight. yes when u first see it nothing indicates that he already had it because you don't really tend to notice but after you see him awaken it in his youth and than look back you actually notice that he does know it he had it. he probably did not know how to awaken it again because when he first awakened it, it was on the spur of the moment.

why do i say i think he knew he had it? look at this.

This is terrible because you just contradicted yourself, which brings me back to my initial point: the "calm down.. concentrate... blah" is moot because had the author not told us he awoken his sharingan earlier, we would have never assumed so, we would have no evidence to draw such a conclusion, and you even admitted to so that before the author tells us, we can only conclude that this was his first time awakening his sharingan.

these are the words of an uchiha who know they have not awakened their sharingan. the uchiha are not like the hyuga they don't have their sharingan from birth, they awaken their sharingan under stressful conditions. sasuke did not forget awakening his sharingan, what he forgot was the feeling of when he awakened it. which he was probably trying to remember vs haku which is why he says 'concentrate'.

No, those are the words of one Dropout Uchiha who cannot compare to the person he is currently talking to. Before Sasuke awakened his Sharingan he was a confident prick still. Oh so now you're saying he "forgot the feeling" and he was trying to rekindle that feeling against Haku? Hmmm.... Why not try to rekindle that feeling when he first fought Zabuza? Why not try to rekindle that same feeling when he fought Kakashi during the Bell Exam?

i never once said kakashi was training to use kamui during part 1, i said he trained during the timskip. i said he knew he had it but it was off limit due to the fact that he never had the chakra to use it. why? coz he fainted as soon as he awoken it. AND if you read my post correctly, you would have seen that i said he trained to improve his chakra control meaing he probably hadn't had enough practice to use kamui as the MS does make you blind so he wouldn't use it in training. now however, kakashi has used kamui plenty of times, meaning he has had more than enough practice.

Okay, you claimed that the characters, JUST KNOW about their abilities:

ok let me ask u something when uchihas unlocks MS they all have different abilities, how do they know what new abilities they have gained?, how does itachi know about tsukuyomi and amaterasu, how does shisui know about kotoamatsukami, how does obito know about kamui and how does madara know about susanoo. THEY JUST KNOW. try reading the thread before posting ...

Which would mean that Kakashi automatically knew he had Kamui when he awakened his Mangekyou, by your intelligence. How would he know the chakra capacity/control he needed to execute the jutsu if he had not been trying to use it? How would he know when he gained the precise chakra capacity/control needed to use the jutsu if he were not using it constantly, hence training? You claimed that he fainted here and that told him that he needed more chakra/control? Are you forgetting the fact that he was in a two-man cell, protecting someone who cannot really fight while being surrounded, having to fight a bunch of ?Jounin+? ranked shinobi? And then on top of that you had to kill one of your comrades that you risked your life to save earlier? The same person who your swore on your life to protect to your best friend? Dude, there was plenty of physical torment and emotional turmoil prior to unlocking the Mangekyou to make him 'faint'.

I don't understand the logic behind your premise, you claim that "Kakashi always knew he had Kamui and the Mangekyou Sharingan, but he did not use it because he didn't have the chakra capacity/control and for some reason, he waited UNTIL Itachi mirked him before he decided to train himself to be able to do so". That's stupid, for what reason would he go "oh I have this awesome power that will allow me to not lose my teammates AGAIN, which I dread til this day, but I'm not going to train myself to use it... I have no good reason to do so though..." Why WOULDN'T Kakashi immediately begin "training to allow himself to use the Mangekyou" at worse, he goes blind earlier, big deal; especially considering we saw in the Kakashi Gaiden he completely lost his eye and was like "whatever, let's keep going". Considering he is living in the world of a shinobi, been in the midst of war, and faced death multiple times already, losing an eye seems a lot less trivial

Re: Kakashi DID know he had MS

Originally Posted by Okami the butcher

i'm guessing when he initially awoken it he didn't realize it then passed out but in the time skip he re awoke it

Thank the universe someone else has been following the story properly.
Thing is Kakashi more than likely found the hidden passage of the Uchiha after his fight with Itachi to better understand what he was up against. Don't forget there was a three year time skip in which he could've found this info out, that does not mean that he knew he had it for seventeen years otherwise he would've been able to counter it. Use LOGIC people, this is a story and it has to fit, leaving important details like Kakashi's knowledge of the MS out of ALL story arcs but the last would be an amateur mistake that Kishi just wouldn't make.

Re: Kakashi DID know he had MS

The thing is did Kakashi even know what MS was when he awakened it. Maybe he didn't know how to use it thats why it took him so long to figure it out. Also Kamui is different from the other sharingan. I dont think it posses Susano'o or Amaterasu. It has its own specific ability. :?

Re: Kakashi DID know he had MS

lol - more name calling - that's what wins arguments (especially on the web).

Also, thanks for telling me what I didn't read.

Please tell me more about myself and provide more piss poor assumptions and arguments.

I read the OP and skimmed the rest - it's hard for me to take posts 100% seriously when they are presented how you present them. (EDIT: and when they are duplicate posts... not just duplicate... it's like duplicates of duplicated duplicates)

I'll also refer to Gohan in DBZ as an example.

Gohan displayed insane bursts of power in his blind rage.
Gohan had no idea how to tap into that power.
Piccolo and Goku extensively trained Gohan to be able to use his "hidden power"

In Kakashi's case - we don't know what his "Piccolo and Goku" pieces were to introduce him to his MS.

I know its like way late but he knows about the power (gohan) he just does not know how to use it.

second on the note of Kakashi and Sasuke knew about their powers but they did not know how to activate them. On the other hand, maybe Kakashi knew how to activate and didn't because it was dangerous, if you look the first time we SEE him us it nearly puts him in a coma but if you look later in the seires when Kakashi fight sasuke after the danzo fight he is weaak after using it BUT it does not nearly send him in a coma which shows that either one his chakra reserves are getting larger to the point he can use it, or he keeps faking what it does to him and making it less dramatic each time you pick

Re: Kakashi DID know he had MS

Originally Posted by Uzimaki Akira

Thank the universe someone else has been following the story properly.
Thing is Kakashi more than likely found the hidden passage of the Uchiha after his fight with Itachi to better understand what he was up against. Don't forget there was a three year time skip in which he could've found this info out, that does not mean that he knew he had it for seventeen years otherwise he would've been able to counter it. Use LOGIC people, this is a story and it has to fit, leaving important details like Kakashi's knowledge of the MS out of ALL story arcs but the last would be an amateur mistake that Kishi just wouldn't make.

OK well think about it like this The Nine Tails had a name all along would it not of been easier to tell naruto the name, or Danzo was in control of root a major organization in the leaf why was the root never brought up before time skip. Everyone in the higher ups knew Minato was Naruto's father but they let him suffer never telling him even though it could have made his life easier and naruto might of treated the village better. Kakashi knew Yamato real name the whole time how come when no one was around he still called him Yamato. Kiba has the strongest jutsu of his clan the 2 headed wolf fang over fang but he only uses once because he does not need it after that. Pervy sage knowing how naruto was never mentioned the fox the fact that he was naruto godfather the fact he gave naruto his name.

like most writers (i know a few people currently publishing books) Kishi most likely does not plan the entire series ahead of time however more like 20-50 chapters ahead of time so as he comes up with new ideas he must find ways to implement them mean that yes there will be plot whole in every story in existance unless you don't leave a single second undocumented.

I believe he knew about it but not how to use it, however the arguing is stupid because only Kishi and the other working on the manga know for sure so everyone shut up be quite and enjoy the work that people put into thing even if you think its wrong!

Re: Kakashi DID know he had MS

Kakashi knew about MS when he fight against Itachi (Ch. 142 - Kakashi vs Itachi).
Thus forcing Itachi to use Tsukuyomi sharingan, because
1. Kakashi is using MS, which any person with sharingan eye can use (low level)
2. Itachi had to use Tsukuyomi (possible of higher level) to counter MS. Only Uchiha's bloodline can use.
Itachi need to switch off MS by not look directly at Kakashi.
Then Itachi had to turn on Tsukuyomi.

To word "Unprepared" may not be what we think is!!!!
Kakashi need to know more about sharingan eye power and how to counter /avoid.
In Ch 142, Kakashi made a mistake to continue to expose he sharingan eye (right eye was closed).
Not realize that Itachi use another type of sharingan - Tsukuyomi, which he fell straight in, immediately.
In Ch 260 - Kakashi vs Itachi, although he said he was prepared but still trapped. Not strong as Itachi use substitute.
Lastly, Kakashi trained Sasuke all the times, mostly probably to understand more about the power of sharingan.

Re: Kakashi DID know he had MS

roflmao this guys is not getting it, ill write in caps as well so it help u get it (doubt it will though).

KAKASHI AWAKENS MS SAME TIME AS OBITO

CAN NOT USE KAMUI DUE TO POOR CHAKRA LEVELS

TRAINS DURING TIMESKIP TO BE ABLE TO USE KAMUI

SUMMARY: HE DOES KNOW ABOUT HIS MS

if he did not know about his MS then it makes no sense for kishi to show us his MS when he was young, coz he then 'forgets' about his MS. but hey, maybe all uchihas had MS, they just didn't know about it...

BTW: u say naruto and kishi as if they are different, NARUTO IS A CHARACTER MADE BY KISHI, WHAT MANGA HAVE U BEEN READING?

dude you are 100% wrong about both sasuke and kakashi as mischief maker stated on page 1 but you refuse to take things for what they truly are and repeat the same bullshit that doesn't prove anything at all.

btw since you like to ask for proof so much, can you prove any of the shit that you're claiming?

namely this:KAKASHI AWAKENS MS SAME TIME AS OBITO

CAN NOT USE KAMUI DUE TO POOR CHAKRA LEVELS

TRAINS DURING TIMESKIP TO BE ABLE TO USE KAMUI

SUMMARY: HE DOES KNOW ABOUT HIS MS

sasuke awakened his sharingan when he chased itachi, he then passed out and didn't activate it again until haku, and you mean to tell me that for those 3 years(may be wrong about that not quite sure on the timeline) he just chose to never once reactivate it and train to become stronger, but kakashi did on the other hand, that right there already makes no sense. he wasn't aware that it happened. he was aware while he was chasing itachi that it was active, but after he passed out he forgot that it happened. if he had remembered he wouldn't have kept it under wraps for years he would have trained it. when he said "i need to focus and see through it" against haku which you yourself quoted, he just meant that he needs to focus and see through it, not i need to focus, activate my sharingan and see through it. don't try to make it something that it's not, he was even shown to be gradually catching up to haku's speed with his normal eyes to prove that he is just focusing.

with kakashi i don't understand how you can even try to make that claim, i mean that's just outright stupid. he awakened it and immediately passed out how would he remember exactly? he didn't pass out because of the ms awakening and it taking a toll on his body, it probably had something to do with it yes, but he had also apparently been fighting several strong enemies while simultaneously protecting rin, he was exhausted either way i'm pretty damn sure he had no intention of making it out of that alive which is why he killed rin. because he knew he couldn't win and they would use her for intel and just kill him. but if you honestly think that he was aware he could do it and just didn't have the chakra for it then you are just plain stupid. he may have taken a long time to use kamui and have told naruto i don't have as much chakra as you, but nobody has as much chakra as naruto and they weren't running on full chakra. even as a kid there's absolutely no way that he wouldn't be able to use it at least one time a day, kakashi's no fodder. and seriously you need to stop with your stupid little one day he looked in the mirror and said "hey i've got the MS" cuz zero people are trying to make that claim but you can't disprove what mischief was telling you so you resort to that, when in actuality he is right and you are wrong.

the 'points' that you have 'proved' are false and for the most part they are outlandish assumptions made by your part that you are trying to pass off as fact

Re: Kakashi DID know he had MS

Originally Posted by orona

dude you are 100% wrong about both sasuke and kakashi as mischief maker stated on page 1 but you refuse to take things for what they truly are and repeat the same bullshit that doesn't prove anything at all.

btw since you like to ask for proof so much, can you prove any of the shit that you're claiming?

namely this:KAKASHI AWAKENS MS SAME TIME AS OBITO

CAN NOT USE KAMUI DUE TO POOR CHAKRA LEVELS

TRAINS DURING TIMESKIP TO BE ABLE TO USE KAMUI

SUMMARY: HE DOES KNOW ABOUT HIS MS

sasuke awakened his sharingan when he chased itachi, he then passed out and didn't activate it again until haku, and you mean to tell me that for those 3 years(may be wrong about that not quite sure on the timeline) he just chose to never once reactivate it and train to become stronger, but kakashi did on the other hand, that right there already makes no sense. he wasn't aware that it happened. he was aware while he was chasing itachi that it was active, but after he passed out he forgot that it happened. if he had remembered he wouldn't have kept it under wraps for years he would have trained it. when he said "i need to focus and see through it" against haku which you yourself quoted, he just meant that he needs to focus and see through it, not i need to focus, activate my sharingan and see through it. don't try to make it something that it's not, he was even shown to be gradually catching up to haku's speed with his normal eyes to prove that he is just focusing.

with kakashi i don't understand how you can even try to make that claim, i mean that's just outright stupid. he awakened it and immediately passed out how would he remember exactly? he didn't pass out because of the ms awakening and it taking a toll on his body, it probably had something to do with it yes, but he had also apparently been fighting several strong enemies while simultaneously protecting rin, he was exhausted either way i'm pretty damn sure he had no intention of making it out of that alive which is why he killed rin. because he knew he couldn't win and they would use her for intel and just kill him. but if you honestly think that he was aware he could do it and just didn't have the chakra for it then you are just plain stupid. he may have taken a long time to use kamui and have told naruto i don't have as much chakra as you, but nobody has as much chakra as naruto and they weren't running on full chakra. even as a kid there's absolutely no way that he wouldn't be able to use it at least one time a day, kakashi's no fodder. and seriously you need to stop with your stupid little one day he looked in the mirror and said "hey i've got the MS" cuz zero people are trying to make that claim but you can't disprove what mischief was telling you so you resort to that, when in actuality he is right and you are wrong.

the 'points' that you have 'proved' are false and for the most part they are outlandish assumptions made by your part that you are trying to pass off as fact

sry but you just downright fail . everything you have said someone has already argued and i have already answered but just for you ill do it again.

when sasuke awakened his sharingan, it was a spur of the moment thing from a burst of strong emotions. uchihas awaken their sharingans when under stressful conditions. but sasuke fainted at that time coz he didn't have the strength to maintain it at that time (he was afterall an young child who had just come home from a whole days training). what sasuke forgot was the 'feeling' from awakening his sharingan. as he did it in the spur of the moment, he did not know how to do it again, you could also say he awakened it ahead of his time. he then became a academy student where you could say his life was peaceful during this time. sasuke at this point was not a true avenger, he was not overcome with hatred, he was living a normal life even through he still wanted revenge on itachi.

now the haku fight was the 1st stressful situation that sasuke was in since itachi.

when he says 'concentrate and see through it' he is probably trying to remember the feeling of awakening it in his youth.

then when he does awaken it he says 'it just a little but i can see' meaning he now knows he has awakened the sharingan again. it almost as if he is saying 'finally ive awakened it again, its not much but it will do for now'

now why do i say he already he knew he had it before, because of his confidence in his eyes. why does he refer to his eyes with such confidence and say 'see through it' if he did not have an ability to see through it. he would have been like obito and said something like ' if only i could awaken the sharingan'.

when he awakens it the second time, he is now older and strong enough to maintain it. he now knows how to awaken the sharingan without any help.

so what im saying is that he awakened it and could not do so again until the haku fight. i DID not ever say he chose not to awaken it.

now with kakashi, he DID pass put from awakening the MS, thats why he was showned together with obito.

they are both filled with emotion (hatred towards their enemy), they awaken the MS at the same time and on the last page it shows the effect it had on both of them. kakashi an non uchiha fainted whereas obito an uchiha with senju dna became empowered.

now kakashi is no idiot and he must have known something changed at that time. i have been corrected by sexy steel who stated that maybe kakashi did not know about the MS in general but he knew about his own new power (his MS) and like i said could not use it due to chakra drainage. u say he should have at least been able to use it once a day when he was young yet when he 1st used it after the timeskip, he was in hospital for 1-2 weeks.

like i said before the encounter with itachi prompted kakashi to improve his chakra levels to be able to fight against shinobi of itachi's calibre.

now look at this

if kakashi DID NOT know about the MS as you have stated then why does he tell the others to close their eyes? after being defeated by itachi's tsukuyomi, he now not only knows that he is not the only 1 with the MS but they can use its full power as they do not suffer from chakra drainage.

kakashi then trains during the timeskip to improve his skills and his chakra control so that he can now use kamui.

which is why kakashi now claims to be prepared.

so before calling people stupid and saying that they are sprouting bullshit i suggest you think and research before posting so that you in turn don't look like a stupid idiot sprouting bullshit .

Re: Kakashi DID know he had MS

Originally Posted by Chef Boy RD

This is what you said:

Obviously you're saying that his Mangekyou Sharingan prepared him to face Itachi. If he was "unprepared" to fight Itachi and got mirked by Itachi's Tsukiyomi, obviously him being prepared now would mean what if the only difference is him having his Mangekyou? From your statements one can assume that you're drawing the conclusion that Kakashi having the Mangekyou 'counters/nullifies' Itachi's if previously he was "unprepared" but now he isn't and you claimed the only difference is the Mangekyou.

This therefore, makes no sense, you claim that he knew he had it this whole time but he waited until after Itachi mirked him wth it to train himself to be capable of using it. Let me tell you why this makes no sense: Jiraiya told him ahead of time that Akatsuki was coming for Naruto, including Itachi, so already there was the possibility of Kakashi having to fight Itachi. Kakashi had already assumed that Itachi unlocked the Mangekyou, hence why he said he will have to prepare for the worse since Itachi is a true heir of the Sharingan. Then Kakashi states that the only thing to counter the Mangekyou is another Sharingan eye... If he knew this ahead of time, why wouldn't he have trained himself to be capable of wielding the Mangekyou (having an evolved Sharingan would only boost his chances no?) to counter Itachi's eye if he thought that was what was necessary?

It's called drawing a parallel, and since he had his Sharingan in the Gaiden, he used Chidori twice (atleast from what they showcased --immediately after Obito died, and then when him and Rin were surrounded) so that still puts his chakra levels with the Sharingan, better than Sasuke's. I was establishing that his chakra levels were considerably high and people are overexaggerating the chakra drain from Kakashi using Sharingan. We've never seen Kakashi fight with the Sharingan and then say, "shit im done for". We see his is out of commission for a while after fighting Zabuza because he is rusty, he even admits to not being in shape. Even when fighting Itachi, after all that countering he wasn't in poor condition due to drain (it was that explosion that mirked half his body). The only thing he ever stated was that "I tire easily" but easily is judgemental and vague; he could easily be saying, "compared to an Uchiha, this takes more of a toll on my body..." amongst other things.

This is terrible because you just contradicted yourself, which brings me back to my initial point: the "calm down.. concentrate... blah" is moot because had the author not told us he awoken his sharingan earlier, we would have never assumed so, we would have no evidence to draw such a conclusion, and you even admitted to so that before the author tells us, we can only conclude that this was his first time awakening his sharingan.

No, those are the words of one Dropout Uchiha who cannot compare to the person he is currently talking to. Before Sasuke awakened his Sharingan he was a confident prick still. Oh so now you're saying he "forgot the feeling" and he was trying to rekindle that feeling against Haku? Hmmm.... Why not try to rekindle that feeling when he first fought Zabuza? Why not try to rekindle that same feeling when he fought Kakashi during the Bell Exam?

Okay, you claimed that the characters, JUST KNOW about their abilities:

Which would mean that Kakashi automatically knew he had Kamui when he awakened his Mangekyou, by your intelligence. How would he know the chakra capacity/control he needed to execute the jutsu if he had not been trying to use it? How would he know when he gained the precise chakra capacity/control needed to use the jutsu if he were not using it constantly, hence training? You claimed that he fainted here and that told him that he needed more chakra/control? Are you forgetting the fact that he was in a two-man cell, protecting someone who cannot really fight while being surrounded, having to fight a bunch of ?Jounin+? ranked shinobi? And then on top of that you had to kill one of your comrades that you risked your life to save earlier? The same person who your swore on your life to protect to your best friend? Dude, there was plenty of physical torment and emotional turmoil prior to unlocking the Mangekyou to make him 'faint'.

I don't understand the logic behind your premise, you claim that "Kakashi always knew he had Kamui and the Mangekyou Sharingan, but he did not use it because he didn't have the chakra capacity/control and for some reason, he waited UNTIL Itachi mirked him before he decided to train himself to be able to do so". That's stupid, for what reason would he go "oh I have this awesome power that will allow me to not lose my teammates AGAIN, which I dread til this day, but I'm not going to train myself to use it... I have no good reason to do so though..." Why WOULDN'T Kakashi immediately begin "training to allow himself to use the Mangekyou" at worse, he goes blind earlier, big deal; especially considering we saw in the Kakashi Gaiden he completely lost his eye and was like "whatever, let's keep going". Considering he is living in the world of a shinobi, been in the midst of war, and faced death multiple times already, losing an eye seems a lot less trivial

yes like i said the only thing that changed between the timeskip was his MS. when i said all his improvements i meant his basic skills, chakra control, experience and knowledge however the only thing kakashi could not do before was use kamui. even with all those improvements, he prob still would not be able to defeat itachi without kamui.

dude look at the time difference between when jiraiya told kakashi about akatsuki and when he faced itachi. it was way too short for him to able to use kamui. even after the 3 year time skip, he still could not use kamui probably. you cannot use a jutsu in battle if it is not complete, that is why we never saw minato's advanced rasengan as he did not complete it before he died. and ill repeat kakashi could not use kamui due to poor chakra levels.

however knowing about the akatsuki and knowing he will probably face itachi again he then decides to train to improve his abilities. why does he wait until to the timeskip, because naruto is now training under jiraiya, sakura under tsunade and sasuke under orochimaru giving him the time needed to train.

u say y didn't he train before he met itach but even if he trained who to say he would have perfected kamui? even after the time skip he still struggled to use kamui, and it is only now that he is comfortable using it.

you are only seeing things that you want to see, kakashi even says he tires easily from using the sharingan.

and of course he is saying "compared to an Uchiha, this takes more of a toll on my body...", thats why it took him longer to be able to use kamui.

and are you serious? how could sasuke rekindle his feeling vs kakashi or zabuza. kakashi is the one who fought zabuza, sasuke and naruto only helped him get free of the water prison jutsu. zabuza did not however put sasuke under pressure. and vs kakashi was a training match how can he rekindle his feeling when kakashi was not even taking him seriously.

and ok u maybe right here, lets just say kakashi's was training to use kamui during part 1, that dosen't change the fact that he was not able to use it until after the time skip as like i said before, a shinobi will not use a jutsu in battle until he has perfected it which still does not change the fact that he knew about it.