Chicago outplaces NYU and Columbia in California. I would also think that it may give Harvard a run for its money. This is without money. Median at Chicago may also be better than median at Stanford just because fewer people are trying to break into LA and SF from Chicago at the median. Chicago also has some good softs (awesome professors and ideological diversity). I would think that the only real question for you is if lay prestige is worth 350k in present value money to you.

TaipeiMort wrote:Chicago outplaces NYU and Columbia in California. I would also think that it may give Harvard a run for its money. This is without money. Median at Chicago may also be better than median at Stanford just because fewer people are trying to break into LA and SF from Chicago at the median. Chicago also has some good softs (awesome professors and ideological diversity). I would think that the only real question for you is if lay prestige is worth 350k in present value money to you.

TaipeiMort wrote:Chicago outplaces NYU and Columbia in California. I would also think that it may give Harvard a run for its money. This is without money. Median at Chicago may also be better than median at Stanford just because fewer people are trying to break into LA and SF from Chicago at the median. Chicago also has some good softs (awesome professors and ideological diversity). I would think that the only real question for you is if lay prestige is worth 350k in present value money to you.

Link?

Groundless assertion based upon a few assumptions, hearsay, and anecdotal evidence. NYU and Columbia dominate their massive region(s) (NYC and DC) much more than Chicago, who has a smaller and still-struggling market. Nevertheless, Chicago still led the NLJ250 this year while only having one firm list them as the law school they take the most students from (Both NYU and Columbia had a few more, and Northwestern beat them in Chicago). This is indicative of a largely spread-out class across the country. Big firms all want one or two Chicago grads in their class, and having a small and spread-out class makes getting biglaw anywhere slightly easier.

I guess more correct would be to say "Chicago grads have fewer class competitors relative to spots available for California placement compared with NYU and Columbia."

TaipeiMort wrote:Groundless assertion based upon a few assumptions, hearsay, and anecdotal evidence. NYU and Columbia dominate their massive region(s) (NYC and DC) much more than Chicago, who has a smaller and still-struggling market. Nevertheless, Chicago still led the NLJ250 this year while only having one firm list them as the law school they take the most students from (Both NYU and Columbia had a few more, and Northwestern beat them in Chicago). This is indicative of a largely spread-out class across the country. Big firms all want one or two Chicago grads in their class, and having a small and spread-out class makes getting biglaw anywhere slightly easier.

I guess more correct would be to say "Chicago grads have fewer class competitors relative to spots available for California placement compared with NYU and Columbia."

No one "dominates" DC accept HYS, let alone NYU. DC is basically HYS followed by whoever has the best GPA from a school in the top 10 + GULC and Duke.

TaipeiMort wrote:Chicago outplaces NYU and Columbia in California. I would also think that it may give Harvard a run for its money. This is without money. Median at Chicago may also be better than median at Stanford just because fewer people are trying to break into LA and SF from Chicago at the median. Chicago also has some good softs (awesome professors and ideological diversity). I would think that the only real question for you is if lay prestige is worth 350k in present value money to you.

Had I not hated U of C, I would readily have taken the Rubenstein at Chicago over HYS at sticker, but this seems to be a silly assertion. You give up a safety net at the very bottom of the class at HYS (here, 0-1 [maybe 2] Hs out of 12 or so), where biglaw is still very likely.

That being said, being at SLS (and loving my time here), had the Rubenstein existed AND I had the numbers/qualifications for it, I probably would've taken the latter if I liked Chicago.

HLS LIPP/YLS LRAP = Debt won't burden your life regardless of what you do after

Ya but if you want big law, that's still over $200k that you could otherwise pocket had you gone to UChi and not been such a prestige whore. I feel like if you are dead set on super prestigious clerkships then Yale might be credited, but I'm not sure that would even be worth it compared to free law school.

These discussions all turn on a couple questions: 1) What you want to do with your degree? (Do you want to maximize income? Do you want to do IP law? etc. ) 2) Where would you be happiest for three years (small class size? the Rigor? sunshine?)?

Since you are "unsure" I say take the money at Chicago, which is your best full scholarship offer. Boalt is also a fine option. If I was unsure what I wanted to do with my degree I'd rather have the freedom to work in whatever employment I wanted and not worry about debt collection. But HYS all have fine LRAPs, so there is no wrong decision here. If you want Cali, I'd say Stanford is the obvious choice of HYS.

FYI the treasury department has just finished a 10 year study and concluded that $1 is still worth more than 1 prestige point. So go for the full ride. that's money in your pocket.

If prestige is important to you, Rubenstein gives you that. If you go to HYS you're just one among the whole class who are at HYS. You won't feel special cause you're not special. You actually aren't even special compared to non-HYS law students b/c being a law student is really freaking unprestigious. There is nothing prestigious about being in debt, being poor, and not having the legal training to even file a complaint pro-se.

Whereas at Chicago you're one among very few who have a full scholarship so at least you have that to hang onto on those cold days (3/4 of the school year) when you need something to cheer you up. And you can go out with your buddies and make it rain like a baller cause you don't need to worry about debt.

And years from now when you say you went to Chicago you can always say "I went to Chicago b/c they gave me a full ride" if you want to. But please don't cause being a lawyer is deucy enough. Though I really doubt anyone will care years from now if you said "I went to Chicago" v. "I went to Yale." Maybe 0Ls will care, so you can use that line to pick up chicks at undergrad bars (though I've yet to see an ugly w/ no game pick anything up by name dropping their law school -- seriously who thinks law students are cool--besides law students?)