So I was griping about artificers and the lack of good prcs the other day and decided to create one of my own. The Forge Commander, as I call it, exemplifies the concept of building constructs for battle. Without further ado...

Forge Commander
For as long as constructs have existed, there have been those who have looked upon them and seen the perfect soldiers. Within shells of stone, iron or even flesh, military-minded individuals perceive strength, endurance, and obedience unrivaled by any biological entity. The most ambitious of these have mastered the art of soldier construction, building war machines capable of carrying out objectives on the battlefield that even the greatest flesh-and-blood soldiers would struggle to fulfil. With these artificial troops, these so-called Forge Commanders wreak havoc upon their foes, whose plans fall away against an horde of enemies that rampages across the battlefield unfeeling and unimpaired.

Spellcasting: At each level, except the first and fifth, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If you had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a forge commander,you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster level, and spells known.

Crafting Expertise:At 1st level, a Forge Commander gains a +1 to caster level for the purpose of construct creation. This increases to +2 at 3rd level and +3 at 5th level. This is in addition to the artificer's bonus to caster level for the purpose of crafting.

Soldier Artisan: Starting at 1st level, a Forge Commander reduces the xp cost of crafting a construct by 50%. This does not stack with the reduction in xp cost from the legendary artisan feat. In addition, if the Forge Commander has levels in artificer, his craft reserve continues to progress, but is only usable for crafting constructs.

Enchant Construct: At first level, a Forge Commander can create a construct whose attacks are enchanted. At 1st level, a Forge Commander can add a +1 enchantment bonus to the natural attacks of one of his constructs. Doing so costs 1,000 gp per natural attack. At 3rd level, this enchantment bonus increases to +2, and can be split between the enchantment bonus and weapon properties (for example, a 3rd-level Forge Commander could have a stone golem with a +2 slam attack or a +1 flaming slam attack). The cost creating a +2 enchantment is 4000 gp per natural attack, or 3000 gp if it is already enchanment. At 5th level, The enchantment can increase to +3 worth of enchantment bonuses, which costs 9000 gp. This cost decreases to 8000 gp if the weapon is already +1 or 5000 if it is already +2.

Construct Overdrive (Ex): At 2nd level, a number of times per day equal to his intelligence modifier, a Forge Commander can unleash a wave of energy as a standard action that boosts the abilities of all constructs created by the Forge Commander within 30 feet with one of the listed effects. The duration of the overdrive lasts a number of rounds equal to the Forge Commmander's intelligence modifier. At 4th level, the overdrive activates 2 effects.

Might-constructs gain a +4 bonus to all damage rolls

Resilience-The constructs' hardness increases by 2

Precision-constructs gain a +4 bonus to attack rolls

Quickness-constructs are treated as being under the effect of the haste spell

Evasiveness-Constructs gain a +2 dodge*bonus to AC and the benefit of evasion (as the monk class feature)

Self-Repair-Constructs repair two points of damage per turn.

Augment Construct: Starting at 3rd level, a Forge Commander can add additional hit dice to constructs he has previously created, adding 5,000 gp worth of materials for each hit dice added in this way. These additions increase the construct's BAB, Skill Points (if applicable), Feats, and size adjustment. A construct cannot have more hit dice than the creator's level +2 (for example, a runic guardian starts with 17 HD. A Wizard 13/Forge Commander 3 can add one additional HD to increase the total of a runic guardian he creates to 18, as he has 16 HD). If a construct is created with more HD than that of the Forge Commander +2, it can be augmented once the Forge Commander reaches the appropriate HD. This does not stop you from creating constructs whose base HD exceed your own by more than 2.

Construct Forge: Starting at 5th level, a Forge Commander can establish a construct forge. Establishing a construct forge costs 20,000 gp. When you create a construct using a construct forge, the component cost and time spent are reduced by 50% (these bonuses do not stack with the incredible artisan and exceptional artisan feats).

Input is appreciated.

qazzquimby

2014-04-15, 11:29 PM

Have a table :smallbiggrin:

Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special

1st

+0

+0

+0

+2
Soldier Artisan, Enchant Construct +1

2nd

+1

+0

+0

+3
Construct Overdrive

3rd

+1

+1

+1

+3
Augment Construct, Enchant Construct +2

4th

+2

+1

+1

+4
Construct Overdrive x2

5th

+2

+1

+1

+4
Creation Forge, Enchant Construct +3

Loek

2014-04-16, 04:16 AM

qazzquimby, my thoughts exactly.

Thealtruistorc, beyond the table, I'd also recommend the use of bold, underline, size and proper spacing, it will really help with the readability of your class.

Anyhow, on to the class:

Spellcasting (Both in requirements and in progressing them).
The artificer does not cast spells, he uses infusions. As such your class misses its state point of creating an additional prestige class for artificers.

And I think giving full progression (not really that important to artificers, but overly "needed/powerful" to other spellcasters) is a bit too much. I know most players feel giving up caster levels is not worth it, but really, giving full casting progression plus other stuff always feels (to me) like overpowering the overpowered.

Soldier Artisan
Interesting, but at 1st level, with nothing to sacrifice for it (no reduced caster level, no bum feats, still getting your craft reserve, etc) too powerful. Either give it at a later level, or give some downside to taking this first level (I'd recommend the first level not increasing spellcasting/infusing) and maybe give some crafting reserve, but not equal to/progressing the high levels of the artificer.

Enchant Construct
I like it! No idea how it holds up to the normal costs and methods for enchanting a constructs weapons, but I like it.

Construct Overdrive
Firstly, make it clear that all constructs gain the same effect (assuming that was intended).

Secondly, some of the effects are really odd when added to certain constructs (quickness and/or evasiveness are going to look weird on the slow plodding golems). Consider limiting which effects can be applied on which constructs (based on physical stats, base speed, BaB or whatnot).

Thirdly, lasting up to caster level rounds, might be a bit long. If you where giving up a lot of infusions/spells I might go for it, but really you are getting fast, long lasting, mass infusions. Seems a bit much.

Augment Construct
No problems with the idea, but the cost seems low. I'd recommend a sliding scale, making lower HD cost less and higher HD cost more. This is mostly a feeling, not based on any (definite) facts.

Creation Forge
Cool idea, however, the cost (100k) while very high for a PC seems insanely low for the "we changed the world" forges of house Cannith.

Beyond that you have to take into account the massive implications such a forge would have to the game world. (If I remember my Eberron lore correctly the creation forges were all shut down BUT were capable of creating, among other things, warforged). Setting up a forge should have massive in game effects (e.g.: Cannith trying to take over, organisations trying to destroy it, warforged either aiming to steal, corrupt or destroy it, the necromancer country (can't remember the name) going to war to prevent it churning out new armies... etc etc etc).

Overall: I like the idea, but I feel that the costs associated with it are nowhere near enough to justify the (neat) stuff it gets.

Thealtruistorc

2014-04-16, 07:44 AM

qazzquimby, my thoughts exactly.

Thealtruistorc, beyond the table, I'd also recommend the use of bold, underline, size and proper spacing, it will really help with the readability of your class.

Anyhow, on to the class:

Spellcasting (Both in requirements and in progressing them).
The artificer does not cast spells, he uses infusions. As such your class misses its state point of creating an additional prestige class for artificers.

And I think giving full progression (not really that important to artificers, but overly "needed/powerful" to other spellcasters) is a bit too much. I know most players feel giving up caster levels is not worth it, but really, giving full casting progression plus other stuff always feels (to me) like overpowering the overpowered.

Soldier Artisan
Interesting, but at 1st level, with nothing to sacrifice for it (no reduced caster level, no bum feats, still getting your craft reserve, etc) too powerful. Either give it at a later level, or give some downside to taking this first level (I'd recommend the first level not increasing spellcasting/infusing) and maybe give some crafting reserve, but not equal to/progressing the high levels of the artificer.

Enchant Construct
I like it! No idea how it holds up to the normal costs and methods for enchanting a constructs weapons, but I like it.

Construct Overdrive
Firstly, make it clear that all constructs gain the same effect (assuming that was intended).

Secondly, some of the effects are really odd when added to certain constructs (quickness and/or evasiveness are going to look weird on the slow plodding golems). Consider limiting which effects can be applied on which constructs (based on physical stats, base speed, BaB or whatnot).

Thirdly, lasting up to caster level rounds, might be a bit long. If you where giving up a lot of infusions/spells I might go for it, but really you are getting fast, long lasting, mass infusions. Seems a bit much.

Augment Construct
No problems with the idea, but the cost seems low. I'd recommend a sliding scale, making lower HD cost less and higher HD cost more. This is mostly a feeling, not based on any (definite) facts.

Creation Forge
Cool idea, however, the cost (100k) while very high for a PC seems insanely low for the "we changed the world" forges of house Cannith.

Beyond that you have to take into account the massive implications such a forge would have to the game world. (If I remember my Eberron lore correctly the creation forges were all shut down BUT were capable of creating, among other things, warforged). Setting up a forge should have massive in game effects (e.g.: Cannith trying to take over, organisations trying to destroy it, warforged either aiming to steal, corrupt or destroy it, the necromancer country (can't remember the name) going to war to prevent it churning out new armies... etc etc etc).

Overall: I like the idea, but I feel that the costs associated with it are nowhere near enough to justify the (neat) stuff it gets.

How do I copy a table?

In terms of spellcasting, I don't think giving up caster levels would be proactive to the class, as constructs have caster level requirements and usually require high-level spells. If you have suggestions, let me know.

In terms of the cost of enchant construct, it's cost sits at 350 gp less per weapon (over crafting a necklace of natural weapons). If you take a prc for it rther than buying it item, you should get more for your money.

The length of construct overdrive is too long. I'll nerf it.

I honestly do not see the problem with restricting effects, as I know some golems get haste naturally. As for language clear-up (I intended for the player to choose an effect that fires off to all constructs), what part is confusing you?

The creation forge idea was originally part of a plan for the capstone to be "craft warforged." I later decided that would be way to busted. I'll change it to a more innocent-sounding title.

spikeof2010

2014-04-16, 08:07 AM

You can copy a quote by going into the post editor by clicking the "quote post" button where the table is, and it should have the table.

Thealtruistorc

2014-04-16, 07:55 PM

Thank you. Edited and ready for more analysis.

Loek

2014-04-17, 02:41 AM

I still say there are two (main) issues, namely: Artificers can't qualify for the prestige class (which was your stated intent) and you don't sacrifice anything (or almost nothing) for all the stuff you gain.

My suggestion:

Make level 1 and 5 not progress spell casting. However, to balance the caster level needed for constructs at level 1, 3 and 5 increase your caster level, but only for the purpose of creating constructs. While this doesn't quite cut it for mages (who almost always need to be at, or close to, the caster level because of the required spells), but the artificer can use that increased "item creation caster level" (on top of the +2 bonus already inherent in the class) to rock at creating constructs.

The reason I also remove the spell casting progression at level 5 is to represent the dedication poured into your specialization - And it gives a good reason to make it significantly cheaper to create the forge (10-20k?).

Thealtruistorc

2014-04-17, 08:09 AM

I still say there are two (main) issues, namely: Artificers can't qualify for the prestige class (which was your stated intent) and you don't sacrifice anything (or almost nothing) for all the stuff you gain.

My suggestion:

Make level 1 and 5 not progress spell casting. However, to balance the caster level needed for constructs at level 1, 3 and 5 increase your caster level, but only for the purpose of creating constructs. While this doesn't quite cut it for mages (who almost always need to be at, or close to, the caster level because of the required spells), but the artificer can use that increased "item creation caster level" (on top of the +2 bonus already inherent in the class) to rock at creating constructs.

The reason I also remove the spell casting progression at level 5 is to represent the dedication poured into your specialization - And it gives a good reason to make it significantly cheaper to create the forge (10-20k?).

Magic of Eberron states that artificers can use infusions to qualify for spellcasting prerequisites.

How would you word the whole thing with caster level? Something like this?:

At every level, your caster level increases as if you had gained a level in one spellcasting class that you had taken before becoming a forge commander. At every level except 1st and 5th, you gain new spells per day as if you had advanced in that same spellcasting class.

Loek

2014-04-17, 12:46 PM

Magic of Eberron states that artificers can use infusions to qualify for spellcasting prerequisites.

Hmm, I never really interpreted that segment like that. I personally always interpreted that artificers could qualify for "caster level X" type things. But looking at it again, you are probably right (and at the least you are right in your game, assuming you are the DM/the DM agrees).

How would you word the whole thing with caster level? Something like this?:

At every level, your caster level increases as if you had gained a level in one spellcasting class that you had taken before becoming a forge commander. At every level except 1st and 5th, you gain new spells per day as if you had advanced in that same spellcasting class.

Probably more like the normal spell casting progression:

At each level, except the first and fifth, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If you had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a forge commander,you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster level, and spells known.

And an ability to be gained at the first level that grants a +1 to caster level (construct creation only) that increases to +2 at 3rd level and +3 at 5th level. (specially mentioning that it stacks with the bonus artificers already get for making items). [No time right now for proper writing - sorry]

This way you have a clean and familiar segment on spellcasting. And a class specific ability that is separate from it.