I'm a researcher into the Occult and Magick and esoterica, and all of that good stuff, in my spare time; it's one hobby among many. I'm reading a book called 'Naos'.

Naos is a Grimoire published by Satanic group 'The Order of Nine Angles', thought to be a fairly 'hardcore' and serious sect of Satanism. They have publicly distanced themselves from things like LaVeyan style Satanism, deeming it to be watered down philosophy, etc. So they've set themselves up on quite the pedestal.

I'm roughly halfway through Naos and it's difficult to take seriously. I can see where they're going with what they're doing, I can connect the few dots I have over this rather large subject, it makes sense to me. But I just can't take these people seriously.

If you are going to publish a Grimoire, a book in which you outline and delve into your knowledge and philosophies of this type of thing, a book which essentially your public face, then you'd better damn well get an editor, hadn't you? Or, at the very least, give it a going over, a second and third draft, etc. The ONA have not. There are many spelling errors. There are many grammatical errors. There are many layout errors. And there are many general errors. This Grimoire isn't exactly lengthy: totals 166 pages.

Added to this, the constantly banging on about how everythign must be 'Sinister'.
The Sinister way, and the Sinister philosophies and the Sinister paths, games, plushies, t shirts, bumbags...
Everything about these guys is 'Sinister'. And while they may be Satanic, the whole thing doesn't do them any favours. This is why LaVey got some acceptance: he didn't bang on about being evil and sinister and whatever. The only effect that constantly repeating 'oh em gee, sinister!' has, is that it makes them sound like a bunch of none-too-bright fifteen year old boys who have watched one too many horror films and are just out to make a poor attempt at shocking people.

These guys remind me of Sinfest's Lil' Evil, but without the plus of being amusing.

Last edited by MasterMorality on Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

Well, do these guys actually worship Lucifer as the Father of This World, or are they just posing? Aside from all the "sinister" in their works, what does their philosophy actually have to say about right, wrong, living with others, finding satisfaction and contentment in life, appeasing whatever gods they hold sacrosanct, etc.? Do they have an actual theology, or are they just reaching for shock-value?_________________I am only a somewhat arbitrary sequence of raised and lowered voltages to which your mind insists upon assigning meaning

Well, do these guys actually worship Lucifer as the Father of This World, or are they just posing? Aside from all the "sinister" in their works, what does their philosophy actually have to say about right, wrong, living with others, finding satisfaction and contentment in life, appeasing whatever gods they hold sacrosanct, etc.? Do they have an actual theology, or are they just reaching for shock-value?

It seems to be fairly traditional Satanic ideology.
Nietzschean self betterment, crush those who oppose you, etc. I can understand that, and it's something I practice myself, although I'm an atheist. They do seem to actually believe in Lucifer, alongside other entities, but it doesn't come off as much more than '"We're trying to make a name for ourselves as being hardcore...."

I'd say the first two can be attributed to any kind of religious belief.

Very, very few religions delve into rational egoism. Not least to that degree.

And what makes Satanism's superstitions particularly hypocritical is that a lot of the humanist elements of the church make the case that gods are all bullshit and so are the wacky rituals and performances and sacraments we perform for them, but we're different, because we dispense with that sort of nonsense as an anti-church!

Then, once you get into the echelons of the church, there's (surprise!) wacky rituals and performances and shit.

Satanism (LaVeyist or otherwise) is kind of like jam-packing three things together.

1. Practically Objectivist 'fuck you got mine' egoism

2. Silly hypocritical superstition

3. Masturbatory shock counterculturism

I'd say the first two can be attributed to any kind of religious belief.

Especially Buddhism. Those guys are all, "fuck anyone else, I got my enlightenment! I'll be at peace with the universe and you can go fuck yourselves!" Bodhisattvas, with their vows to remain in Samsara (the wheel of suffering) until every living thing attains enlightenment, are a bunch of selfish dickwads._________________"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. Iíll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman