The Official Supernatural: “Wayward Sisters” (13.10) Live Recap Thread

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Starting now.

Overlong recap introducing all the female characters who would be in the spin-off, should it occur. Could be edited down a bit. Definitely needs something more than a rather boring hard rock tune that sounds as though they got a knockoff of a Melissa Etheridge song instead of getting an actual Melissa Etheridge song. “Royal Station 4/16” would have done nicely here. Or maybe “Ruins.” Or “2001.”

Just sayin’: 2:13 is an awfully long montage, especially set to generic rock.

Cut to Patience showing up at Jody’s door. She’s had a vision and it involves Jody apparently dying.

Cut to Now.

In some random shack in the middle of nowhere, two werewolves disguised as white-trash lowlifes (not a real stretch) are threatening a young girl who kinda looks like the girl ghost in season two’s “Playthings.” A delivery truck shows up (we get a rather CGI’d overhead view of it coming in). It’s Claire, disguised as a delivery girl. The one werewolf who was taunting the little girl is so dumb, he has to read the address label saying “Mr. Werewolf” before he gets it. Half a second later, he gets a shotgun load in the gut that tosses him across the room.

The second werewolf puts up more of a fight and bloodies Claire’s lip a bit before she stabs him. Then a mother werewolf shows up just to get shot. Yeah, the dialogue’s not the best this week.

As Claire sends the girl back to her mother, she gets a call from Jody. Jody reprises Dean’s line about John not having been home for a few days, this time for the Brothers Winchester, and asks Claire to come back to her house.

Cue title cards, which seem a little more extended than usual.

At the house, Jody and Alex are determining that Donna and Walt (still salty he’s still alive) haven’t heard from Sam and Dean, either. Gee, where were these idiots when Sam and Dean got locked up in a sooper-sekrit government facility last year for a month and a half? For that matter, what about when Dean went missing in Purgatory for a year? Sam and/or Dean go missing all the time, so why the DEFCON-1 alert status all of a sudden?

Claire arrives and the sneak peek about her awkward reunion with Alex and Jody ensues, as well as her introduction to Patience. As cocky and arrogant as Claire is in this scene, I can grok her being upset about Patience appearing to have replaced her. FYI, Jody, if you really want to get Claire to come back home, maybe don’t turn her room into storage or hand off her clothing to some random new girl five minutes before you know she’s arriving. That doesn’t rhyme with “Welcome back.”

Patience seems quite bland, including after Alex leaves to go to work at the hospital (Claire is annoyed because she thinks all hands should be on deck for finding the Brothers) and when she starts relating her vision. It turns out Jody doesn’t die in it – Claire does. Maybe.

Claire turns bratty and says that sitting back and making a plan is a bad idea. Yeah…um…no. Pretty sure that’s the best idea, girl. Then she storms out. It’s rather sad that this is what she got from watching Dean. Dean’s the most cold-blooded planner of them all. That’s why he’s still here.

Oh, and they’ve been clued into Kaia’s existence by a phone message from Sam.

Meanwhile, it turns out to be a good idea that Alex went off to work, since Kaia has been found by the roadside and loaded into an ambulance, while some creepy, hissing thing watches from the shadows. Quickie flashback during all this to the coda from last week when the Brothers first arrived in the Bad Place.

At the hospital, Alex is being the perfect nurse and we finally get some good lines. After Claire comments on her nurse scrubs, Alex shoots back: “It’s a uniform. What’s your excuse?”

Claire: I look great.

Alex: You look like Biker Barbie.

They have a discussion about how Alex knew about the vision and their differing approaches to protecting Jody. As they do, Alex is looking up Kaia in the system and finds a Jane Doe just being checked into the hospital. Wow. How plot-convenient.

When Claire goes down there, Kaia spots her and they share an intensely slashy staring contest right before Kaia decides to do a runner. I facepalm at this show’s really poor knowledge of medicine. Once again. Ain’t nobody going nowhere with the colossal headache that comes from a concussion, let alone with Kaia’s fleetness of foot.

Claire comes in and cuts right to the chase, saying she knows Sam and Dean. Kaia, apparently having completely reset her learning curve from the beginning of the previous episode, tries to run away, anyway. Until she’s accosted outside by the creepy thing that was stalking her. It has glowing red eyes, kicks Claire’s ass, gets shot by Jody (who, also conveniently, pops up out of nowhere) and then bleeds fluorescent blue blood when Claire stabs it in the throat.

And then they take the body home, where Alex pulls on some gloves and gets cracking on an autopsy with almost obscene glee. The Brothers would be so proud.

Claire talks to Kaia. They compare scars and Kaia talks about the Bad Place, how she knows the creature from there and they usually “travel in packs.” I know some really like Kaia, but so far, she seems to have about three emotional settings – Coward, Victim, and Tremulous Hero – and I’m quickly growing tired of all of them. Anyhoo, Claire asks her about Sam and Dean.

It’s more interesting in the garage, where Alex is pulling off the creature’s mask to reveal lots of mandibles. Alex and Jody suggest Patience not scream. Patience suggests that puking is more likely. Claire enters and informs them that Kaia knows what the creature is. Kaia offers that she is a dreamwalker and then fills in the others on how she helped the Brothers open a rift (she doesn’t mention Jack) and they got stuck in the Bad Place. She’s sure that if they did, they are already dead, but Claire says that the rift is still open, so they can go find the Brothers.

Cut to Sam and Dean (who are actually not dead at all), and immediately, the banter improves. Dean is eating a lizard over a fire (“It’s a lizard, Sam – it tastes like lizard”), while Sam is cringing and saying they should go find the rift. Dean points out that the last rift only lasted “a couple of hours” and they’ve already been there two days. So, the rift could be already closed, they could be there for a while, and Sam needs to suck it up and eat something.

When they hear a faraway monster call that seems to be approaching, they run away, but not before Dean goes back to grab the rest of the lizard.

Back at Jody’s, Alex finds Patience punking out and packing to leave. Patience is freaked out and says she’s “not a fighter.” Maybe if she goes back now, Daddy will take her back. Alex points out that Patience can’t just turn back the clock like that and that there’s more to dealing with the supernatural world than fighting. Patience leaves, anyway, but when she reaches the car, she has a vision of more creatures bursting through the windows. She runs back inside and tells them, including a skeptical Claire, that they all have to leave. Kaia says they’re after her.

Later, we see the creatures burst through the windows, just as Patience predicted. But the girls are watching it on a security cam from the car. They’ve already left for the barge. Patience, who is driving, asks Claire if she believes her now.

After daybreak, Jody has them stop. She tells them she called in backup. Donna shows up, armed to the teeth (including a flamethrower – and y’all wonder why Dean has so much Ducky love for her?). She has become a vampire hunter and it seems she’s quite good at it. It turns out they don’t actually know where they’re going, yet, because Kaia didn’t know and needs some prodding to come up with enough clues for Jody and Alex to figure out it’s the Larsen Brothers Shipyard off Route 14.

Jody and Donna decide to go on ahead. Jody leaves Claire in charge of Alex and the civilians and Claire reluctantly agrees.

Meanwhile, in Monster Land, Sam and Dean are being stalked by a refugee from Sword of Shannara, a hooded figure with a spear who manages to take out both of them. I call shenanigans on this. Maybe the figure could take out Sam, who hasn’t been eating much the past day or two, but Dean? Dean survived a year in Purgatory and came out on top. He even had fun. And he fights multiple demons with relative ease. Plus, he and Sam would be armed to the teeth. Why don’t they have their guns out at least?

It doesn’t help that the fight is very poorly done in typical choppy Arrowverse style (that’s not a compliment) where there is so much cutting to cover up the lack of fighting skills among certain parties that you can barely see what’s happening. Nope. Not at all impressed. The show’s done pretty well so far in avoiding dumbing down the Brothers to make a new character look better, but this is an egregious exception.

Jody and Donna scope out the shipyard and then go in. The incidental music for this scene is rather cool. They pass by an angel sword melted into the ground and hear a hissing from the upper deck of the ship (looks like a ferry) they’re on.

Back at Base Camp, Kaia and Claire bond (more slashy overtones) over Kaia realizing Claire is scared. Claire admits that she’s been shaken by Patience’s vision. Why she’s admitting this to Kaia, I just don’t know. But when she declares that “Sam and Dean saved my life” and she has to return the favor, Kaia offers to come with. I know this is intended to make Kaia look heroic, but it sounds vaguely ridiculous: “I was a cowardly lion when those menz were around, but I shall follow you to the ends of the multiverse, fair lady.”

Not helping is that the show’s writers (who are downright obsessed with their meta) seem blissfully unaware that this whole storyline is an old and very sexist Western trope as old as the media hills known as “The menfolk are out on a cattle run/incapacitated, so it’s up to the little ladies to save the day.” And it’s looking as though we’re about to get the variation of “All the adults get themselves taken out, so now the kids have to save the day.” You’d think the show would at least bother with a little more onscreen explanation about why these random characters all immediately banded together to find and save Sam and Dean, seeing as how it’s still called Supernatural and the protagonists are still Sam and Dean.

On an upper deck, Jody and Donna find the rift. Jody wants to go in immediately because reasons – sorry, because she’s afraid that if she doesn’t go in right that second, Claire will and then will get killed. Or something. Points to Donna for thinking this reason is stupid, especially after Jody admits her thinking is clouded by not wanting to “lose another child.”

This conversation is cut off by their hearing more rift creatures. Well, duh, if the rift is open and these things hunt in packs, it makes perfect sense that not only one crossed over, y’know?

The creatures, btw, are exceedingly cheesy when alive and look exactly like what they are – stuntmen in monster costumes.

Over in Monster Land, Sam wakes up at night and Dean, who is already awake, calls the figure with the spear “Darth Dickwad,” even though it’s pretty obviously a female figure. The figure bangs on a giant skull and the creature they heard before responds from a distance.

Meanwhile, Claire and the others are saddling up, while Jody and Donna are stuck inside an abandoned car. They’re saved by Claire with a flamethrower. The others are just standing behind her, even though Jody warns that there’s “another one.”

Claire hears the hissing and immediately goes upstairs. Jody realizes it’s closing as it starts to fade. Claire insists on going in to save the Brothers.

Downstairs, Donna give Patience a (very) quick rundown on how to use a shotgun, but a whole bunch of creatures show up and the women flee upstairs. As Donna and Jody and the others hunt monsters, Claire goes into the rift with Kaia. Because let’s not leave the one person who knows how to go other worlds back in ours, or anything.

In the Bad Place, Claire and Kaia immediately find and cut Sam and Dean loose, but when they all run back to the rift, the hooded figure tosses its spear at Claire and hits Kaia instead when she steps in front of Claire. They hold hands and Kaia dies (here at the CW, we bury allllll our gays, especially if they’re WoCs!). The Brothers pull out angel swords, which the hooded figure apparently did not bother to take away from them (now they do? And what about their guns?), and Dean prevents Claire from going after the figure, who is now, you know, totally unarmed. The three of them flee back through rift, but not before some creepy giant CGI troll shows up and peers over the trees.

As Jody cradles Claire, Patience (who has finally made her first monster kill) realizes that was her vision and Kaia was the one who died.

Afterward, the Brothers leave, asking Jody to thank Claire when Claire is able to hear it. The adults worry about more rifts and more creatures, but Jody assures the Brothers that since they’ve got saving the world covered, she and the girls can take care of Sioux Falls.

Claire mourns and Jody has a talk with her. Claire finally realizes that going in half-cocked gets innocent people killed.

Downstairs, Patience is still shocked at having ganked something and Claire starts a journal. There’s a cheesy voiceover from Claire about how she needs “my family…my army,” and she’s going to kill the thing that killed Kaia, as they montage at the dinner table.

Meanwhile, a big old rift appears again in Sioux Falls and through it steps the hooded figure, which pulls back its hood to reveal an evil, smirking Kaia, because killing off a redshirt character we’ve barely met and have no investment in, but who appeared to be a regular, and replacing her (it’s frequently a her) with an evil doppleganger isn’t a huge cliche at all.

Credits

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We should start a thread, most ridiculous thing Sam has been tied to and since “I” am going first it was the tractor from Sharp Teeth. I ‘know’ he’s been tied to other wacky things but that it’s mostly chairs.

We are watching Hibbing 911 and my husband mentioned how much he liked how they developed the Donna character.

What “I” noted was that when Dean and Donna went thru the torture building as ‘partners’ he absolutely trusted her to actually BE his backup. No hesitation.

There is talk on spoilertv.com that Jared, at the last convention (Orlando) said that he does not want to act forever and that is giving rise to ‘end of show’ fears. I wonder if Jared comes to work, looks at a script, and then lets loose and SCREAMS ‘aaarrrggghhh’ to see one more script that has him tied to a chair. I mean, it’s a trope, it’s a meme, it’s ridiculous that 6’5″ rompin-stompin’ Texan Jared spends time practically every episode Tied to an F-ing Chair!

Well the kid (Marlon) was SO creepy on his own I was surprised he had a job in which he met with the public. Everybody they talked to who was ever at Manny’s was uncomfortable in the place and it was because of Marlon.

I truly did not get Clegg was the ‘mastermind’ until he bopped Sam.

I also like that we never saw what the guy who was using the bone saw looked like. Kept him creepy.

I wondered why Marlon showed them the website, but later on realized that Clegg, once he saw “Sam and Dean Winchester” would be available for sale and had Marlon be a furtherance of their ‘plot’ to catch them. Clegg actor did it really well imo. Marlon was so creepy he had serial killer stamped on his forehead.

Wow. I was lurking on Previously TV supernatural forum last night and astonished that no one saw the Dean/Death exchange as anything other than acknowledgement of Dean’s reckless despair. And there are actual Dean fans there. Yet the most they would say is that Dean was going to break the world via the rift.
Wow. To me Death was flat out telling Dean he was too important to throw his life away. The superverse needs him, especially this season to fight AU Michael.
I am literally the only person online that thinks we are getting Dean!Michael too.

You’re not literally the only person. It’s just that the show has been hinting at that since season five and they have yet to pull the trigger.

Billie outright stated that Dean was too important to be allowed to die naturally. Sure, powerful figures like her and Chuck throw in “and your brother,” but how it always plays out is that the only character in the story determined to keep Sam alive no matter what is Dean. Dean’s the one that those running the SPNverse won’t let die.

A lot of fans only take what is spelled out in dialogue as canon, even when it’s explicitly contradicted by what’s shown, let alone subtext. The idea that characters might lie, be misinformed, or other be otherwise unreliable narrators doesn’t come across to a significant chunk of the audience.

As for tonight… good riddance to Doug. Donna was awesome. The episode borrowed some good horror tricks from hostel, reservoir dogs and hills have eyes but wasn’t scary. It did a great job of showing us Donna is awesome.
Sam’s mood was so petulant. It seemed jarring and wooden.
Strange to see h im talk about going out bloody.
I rather liked the intro which showed what it is like being a woman traveling alone at times.

Dean’s storyline in 5 was he’ll no to the Apocalypse. It made no sense for him to say yes to Michael then because he decided to to play along with the plan.
It made no sense for Sam to say yes either but at tbis point it doesn’t matter because the chick as,God reveal means that Dean was the one t hat stopped it by showing up at Still and changing the story Chuck wrote.

Crowley’s arc under Carved, that slow crawl towards humanity and unrequited crushing on Dean was the best character arc of late.
For me Crowley was the witness to Dean losing his humanity and Mark slated, especially in the season 9 finale in which he tries to tag along with Dean and seems to mourn the loss of Dean’s humanity even as he longs for demon Dean at his side.
They played the bromance for laughs however Crowley could never quit Dean.
I would have loved to see Benny’s take on Crowley.
They could so easily do a Dean buddy comedy with his motley crew of Supernatural sidekicks. The D-Team

I loved Crowley’s relationship with Dean. I wish we had seen more of it. Watching Jensen and Mark play off each other was always mesmerizing for me. Not to say that his acting with Jared wasn’t a pleasure too but it was the Dean/Crowley matchup that was the best. TPTB and the writers so wasted Crowley’s character. Sadly. I wish they’d had more scenes between Crowley and DemonDean.

If I had to sum that one up, I’d call it “unmemorable.” I know that pilots are often some of the least interesting episodes in a series, so I’ll try to reserve judgment until they make a few more episodes, but still.

Four of these were well established characters, so I thought they’d be able to do something more with them. Claire is usually pretty interesting, but her part was pretty bland despite the attitude. I did enjoy the sister scenes with Alex. Alex was doing a mighty good job biting her tongue around her.

Jody is inexplicable. First she objects to Claire hunting. Then she encourages Patience to get into hunting. Then she panics when she thinks Claire is going to get herself killed hunting. Not her finest hour.

Of course, Donna is always fun to watch. So much enthusiasm. I don’t mind the accent. I’ve lived in the rural northern midwest for about 20 years, and I still run into people with accents so strong that they almost sound like caricatures to my west coast ears. Except they’re not. And they sound a lot like Donna.

You’d think Sam would learn to be less picky by now, given his life experiences.

Is it just me or is anyone else looking hard for and still missing the fantastic acting talent of Kathryn? She’s the lead. Really. I find her portrayal of Claire rather flat and unexciting. And Donna? It felt to me that this time around Briannas performance was a little forced.

The alt Kia may not be evil. It’s her territory and she has these people just dropping in randomly. Enemies? She hadn’t killed the guys yet so who knows what would have happened before the rescue. Funny that alt Kaia didn’t seem to react to the fact that she killed “herself”

I think EVOL!Kaia intentionally lured them there so she could escape to the SPNverse and deliberately killed her twin, as well. Otherwise, it’s all just a little too convenient, even for Dabb. Personally, I didn’t care for either version. I thought rebooting a character five minutes after introducing her was a bit tacky. Why *should* I care, writers?

I liked Donna. I always like Donna. She had the best lines and I liked her with Jody. Her accent isn’t any worse than it is with the characters in Fargo. Making Claire SuperHunter was a bit forced, though she was brought down to earth at the end. I think I liked Alex best this time round. She got some good lines, too.

The actress who plays Patience could probably do something with that role if they’d just give her better material.

Dumbing Sam and Dean down was simply unnecessary and everything from the Hooded Figure storyline felt like it belonged in Mystic Falls, not Sioux Falls.

Is it possible that there cannot be two of ypu in one universe…
Nah she was going to hit Claire and Kaia pushed Claire out of the way.
No reunions until you ate back home.
Newbie mistake. Dean at least should have been on high alert.
The missing guns were glaring. They never explore dangerous territory without gun pulled unless they know it’s a knife fight. Even Dean carried his bone machete in Purgatory. Very weird.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence at all that EVOL!Kaia just happened to be near the rift her alt-version made after years of dreaming of EVOL!Kaia’s universe. Nor did she show any signs of grief or shock when her alternate version died.

The lack of guns was ridiculous. A little stick with a blade on it looks pretty, but is no protection against a gun. And Dean knows how to disarm MOTWs who are stronger and faster than he is, let alone a human.

BUT they still would’ve run out of bullets. Dean had his Colt with him in Purgatory but he ran out of bullets. PLUS the gun was too noisy to use.

In the beginning I thought Sam had the armaments bag but then saw he just ran with the other two; they did not have the time to open the trunk.

Question: have we ever noticed the guys carrying a lot of ammo? I have seen Dean unloading but then the scene generally stops and we don’t see him do a fast reload. Can anybody point me to a reload scene?

The accent was a running joke in Fargo. In fact Donna may be modeled loosely on Fargo’s fabulous Marge. I keep waiting for Donna to say “he was kind of a funny looking fellow”… or creatively use a wood chipper.
They made Donna smart and memorable. Who doesn’t love Dean and Donna bonding over donuts.
They doubled down on the smart and Dean bonding in the vampire episode. They also gave her character a natural competence with firearms and hunting which makes her transition into supernatural hunting believable.
They gave Jody and Claire the rational to hunt and Claire has a personality similar to Dean’s as well as a similar tragic family history. They have also showed both on learning curves initially. It would have been nice to have Dean take Claire shooting or something but one assumes she learned her physical skills from simewhere since she has been hinting since she went to live with Jody.

I think Alex is a lot closer to Dean at this point. She’s the one who is sticking around her parent, supporting Jody and working in a helping profession. Claire is the one who is off doing her own thing, like Sam, and on a revenge mission, like Sam in season one.

I agree that Claire thinks she’s imitating Dean, but she’s just too young to understand how offbase she is. In her defense, she met Dean very briefly right after he got out of Hell and then had a lot more interaction with him many years later, when he was struggling with the nervous breakdown embodied by the MoC. So, she’s had to reconcile some very conflicting stuff about Dean.

I don’t mind Donna’s accent. There are people who talk like that and it’s an obvious homage to Fargo. And I liked Fargo, both the film and the series. It fits her. Plus, it hasn’t been necessary to dumb down Dean and Sam to make Donna look good.

Well Claire and Dean have a spiritual rapport and are naturally badass and share the snark. And are devoted to hunting to save others because their families were destroyed by the supernatural.
I definitely see your point as well. The fact that Alex is helping in her way really made me like the character. In fact Alex is fast trackedon a trajectory that Sam should have been on.
Me Stanford Smarty pants should have found, way to make a difference despite the,fact that he hated hunting post 5. Instead they made him soulless then psycho and decided Sam suffering made up for all of the bad he did.
Now suddenly he hunts and it is his life. Whereas I think Carver did a bang up job rehabilitating the character I think his sudden desire to hunt had never been explained satisfactorily.

Lol.
It was better than I thought it would be. I like Claire. I liked the girl band better than I thought I would. I like Jody and Donna. I am the odd duck that sympathized with Kaia and I liked how damaged Claire understood damaged Kaia and got her go open up.
The writing was dreadful. The direction was worse.
But hey… The kaiju appearance got the show a mention on the Godzilla boards, according to my husband.
I Don’t understand why ninja Kaia would want to come here when she has all of those monsters to command and feed. Or why she had to flash the evil smile.
I don’t think the rift and very bad z movie monsters will be enough of a mytharc. I am afraid the mytharc will be girl drama.
The use of Supernatural tropes was weird.
Gah it was so womenfolj defending the ranch except for Donna who totally supersedes that trope. She rocks.
There are so many songs they could have used. Girls just wanna have fun. Rapture. Brass in Pocket.
Zombie.
Just please let Dabbler and hacks go with Wayward Sisters and bring Carver back for Supernatural.

I agree. I think it will go to series. There are enough fans that wanted it and it wasn’t bad enough to tank it. At least the characters are likeable enough to watch.
I like Akex better. I am still meh on Patience but at least they toned down her power and introduced interpretation as being key.

I think we got spoiled a bit with the Supernatural pilot, but we have to remember that Kripke banged away at that script for years, with tons of network input. And then he got lots of producer support and a crack writing team for the series. They made him look good.

Personally I’m so tired of reading about how Supernatural has mistreated women…all these years. Ignoring everything that has already graced our screens. The sooner this thing spins off the better. Then maybe we can get back to concentrating on the Winchesters. Testosterone fueled Supernatural. So what? I’m starting to choke on all this women power and the opinions that if you don’t like Wayward you are against your own kind and should immediately turn in your sister card. Waywards all fine and good, female representation is too. I just resent that it had to hijack four episodes of Supernatural to get its start and that it’s gotten so much more hype than the parent show which helped give it life. And that as usual Sam and Dean had to be dumbed down once again so Claire! and Company could look superior. It’s lucky Wayward came to fruition when it did. Considering the current atmosphere. For that reason alone I doubt it will fail. At least for a year or so. I seriously do not see this long term.

I actually don’t mind the women being on the show and I think the focus on the spin-off gave the writing a direction this season that last season distinctly lacked (let’s be honest – Lucifer on the Loose was boring as hell. So was anything to do with the LoL). But considering Sam and Dean are the inspiration for the formation of the Wayward Sisters in-verse, the least the show could do was have some more expression about what that means. A little vague mumbling from Claire and Jody about how Sam and Dean are missing (really? Those guys go missing more often than a tomcat on the prowl) and the women owe them doesn’t cut it. I’d like to see how that thinking has evolved to this point. I mean, hell, every time Bobby and/or Rufus popped up in their later appearances, the show practically went into hagiography mode. I did not sense anything inspirational or special about the Brothers’ appearance in this episode (though there were hints with Dean in the Patience episode).

I don’t think SPN is systemically sexist or misogynistic at all, especially compared to the rest of the TV landscape (and that emphatically includes the CW), but I’ll talk more about that in my review.

All that feminist butthurt is largely about Charlie who is one of the most poorly written, stereotypical, walking tropes ever. And I suspect the only ones that call her a gay icon aren’t lesbians because she is written as a man with a pussy when exploring her sexuality, a girly girl when they want to do cute clothing montages and a mash-up of iconic television female nerds the rest of the time.
I have had close friends that were lesbians and they never were into random pickups. Sure they looked but they were all nesters and looking for a relationship. In fact It’s a common lesbian joke that they start nesting at hello.
It is possible that one of the male writers is gay… I Don’t know… but none of them have ever befriended a lesbian.
If they resurrect that Beyatch I will scream. She is badly written. I like Felicity in Dr. Horrible. I hated her in Buffy and Supernatural.

Welp, I’m bi and was a scifi/horror nerd before Felicia Day was even born, and I couldn’t stand Charlie. Every other female character around her effectively evaporated, except for Rowena, who wasted no time telling her off. I’ve never heard the character mentioned by any gay women I know, either, albeit all the ones I currently know are older than me and don’t watch or read much scifi and fantasy. I do think that a lesbian character written by a straight guy and played by a straight woman (as far as I know, Day is straight) as a female version of a straight male nerd is entirely on the table for criticism by other women, especially GLBT women. That’s the intended audience, after all, right, Robbie Thompson?

Robert Berens is gay, not that it improved that aspect of this episode much.

Berens was the one I was thinking of. His writing has a cleverness and literacy that made me think he might be gay.
He was golden under Carver. I think he has talent but he needs a good editor. For all we know his writing is being dumbed down by Singer and Dabb.

I would also add that the complaints that Charlie died a meaningless death are ridiculous.
She made the decision to follow Sam on a dangerous foolhardy plan and stupidly left Castiel’s care because Rowena irritated her.
Her death made sense in terms of plot dynamics and fit into both brothers’ character arcs. She needed to die cor Dean to go off tje rails and to establish how wromg Sam’s quest actually was. Charlie was the only character close to both brothers that had integrated with the murderous Stynes.
If anything her death highlighted Charlie’s woobue fatal flaw. She had a false sense of her own abilities and importance.
Finally Charlie actually got the kind of death that previously had only been awarded to Bobby.
Kevin died a senseless death.
Crowley was wasted and didn’ t get a single showcase episode since season 6.
Charlie was treated by a queen by the writers and called family by Dean far before it was earned. She was written with kid gloves.

Well, obviously, Charlie was fridged to motivate Dean, which just makes her fans even angrier. But really, she had to be written out and it needed to be in a way that served the plot, so fridging it was. I mean, Kevin’s death may have senseless, but it wasn’t meaningless. It served to motivate Dean, as well. Dead innocents in his charge motivate Dean a whole lot.

The thing is, though, that Charlie wasn’t created to be fridged. She was created to be a fan favorite. Due to bad writing, she became a Mary Sue and Creator’s Pet, but she could easily have been an effective character who might even have survived to be in the WS series–though I think Felicia Day would have aged out of the role by then–if she’d been written better. She wasn’t and it was affecting the ratings, so out she went.

The problem with Crowley was that he started out as a frenemy and then Gamble tried to make him into an enemy in season six, which was a colossal failure. His doomed obsession with Dean (which Dean did not reciprocate, but still fully used to his own advantage) was a lot more interesting to me than his quest to be and stay King of Hell. The latter was pretty one-note. The politics of Hell just aren’t all that fascinating.

The thing is that Crowley did a lot of horrible things, both in general and to the Brothers/the Brothers’ friends and family. Getting wrapped around Dean’s finger and becoming Dean’s pathetic Hell Hound, panting at a Hunter’s heels to the mockery of other demons, was both a fitting punishment and potentially redeeming. I can sort of see his only true redemption being a final death, whereas his mother Rowena (who is still actually human) has a more hopeful fate. And since she’s met God and knows upfront the final cost of her actions on earth (and she appears to share the family weakness for crushing unrequitedly on Dean Winchester), she’s had a reasonably realistic change of heart. Storywise, sadly, I don’t think both of them could have been redeemed. That would be too sappy. And it was far less realistic for a demon to get into Heaven than a witch.

I do agree, though, that Crowley had a really crappy and perfunctory exit. Mark Sheppard and his fans both deserved much better than that.

Crowley’s arc under Carved, that slow crawl towards humanity and unrequited crushing on Dean was the best character arc of late.
For me Crowley was the witness to Dean losing his humanity and Mark slated, especially in the season 9 finale in which he tries to tag along with Dean and seems to mourn the loss of Dean’s humanity even as he longs for demon Dean at his side.
They played the bromance for laughs however Crowley could never quit Dean.
I would have loved to see Benny’s take on Crowley.
They could so easily do a Dean buddy comedy with his motley crew of Supernatural sidekicks. The D-Team

They were very consistent about trolling supernatural’s first APOCALYPSE last season which is why I kept saying we were heading towards an Apocalypse albeit a different one.
As interesting as I found it, it is not much go hang a season on, especially when the episodes largely suck.

I might have liked it ok had this just been a regular SPN episode. But as the start of a new series, I didn’t see anything that would make me want to tune back in. Too many cliches and far too much fan pandering. And just as I expected, the brothers lost all their hunting skills and acted like rank amateurs in order to prop up their teen girl savior. Yeah, that’s so not the way to win over my viewership.

Oh, I get what Walt and Roy thought. Problem is, they crossed a line in murdering two innocent humans because of what one *might* do in the future and how the other one *might* avenge the first one. That deserves a bullet to the skull on this show and every other character not named Walt who’s crossed that line has ended up dead. And Walt’s the one who pulled the trigger. Roy didn’t even do it and *he’s* dead.

Do you think it would’ve gone better if part of the reason was that Hunter killed by Meg when she possessed Sam? Steven something or other? If they had shown up and said we know you killed Steve and DEAN helped you cover it up?

They were originally going to do a storyline in season three where Gordon and Steve Wandell’s daughter would lead a group of Hunters who blamed Sam for her father’s death, but actually went after Dean. But that was cut due to the Writers Strike.

(I remembered the name) But Roy and Walt ‘should’ have said we looked and found out you killed Stephen Wandell (waddell?) Sam and Dean helped cover it up so HE is guilty along with you.

So it was an execution (in Hunter eyes) ‘not’ a murder.

I get what you are saying but in this one case I don’t agree.

We ‘know’ that John (knowing that there was ‘something wrong with Sam’) kept his sons away from other Hunters, aside from Bobby. MAYBE after Bill Harvell died John was burned in the Hunter community; Gordon said he’d ‘heard’ about what a great Hunter John was but I doubt he was ever in a room with John.

I think IF Roy and Walt had mentioned Stephen Wandell we would not be disagreeing at all about this.

On a side note: why the HELL did Bobby not have an anti-possession tattoo in Sympathy for the Devil? HE gave Sam and Dean the medallions in the first place. That makes no sense and makes Bobby look stupid.

There isn’t that kind of authority in the Hunting world, so it doesn’t really matter what Roy and Walt used as an excuse. It was still a cold-blooded murder. No matter how many times the Brothers say bygones, Walt will (with reason) always be looking over his shoulder for them to change their minds and get their revenge on him. There really isn’t anything stopping them doing that. They’re about as close to a Hunter leadership as exists and even if they weren’t, there is no legal recourse within the Hunter community against a vendetta.

It’s entirely possible Bobby did have protection and the demon just bypassed it. We’ve seen that happen since.

I liked Alex’s ‘calm’ demeanor and liked Patience a lot more than I expected.

I don’t know ‘why’ the hook was hanging from Claire, I would’ve liked JODY to be the focus.

Second Doug is still hanging with Donna next week! Listen if we can’t get Dean/Donna, I ‘like’ Doug probably more than everybody. He seemed like the kind of boyfriend who would be loyal and always compliment her haircut. EVERYBODY needs a good guy like Second Doug in their life (PLEASE don’t call him Lonny, Donna, PLEASE don’t call him Lonny).

I think Doug would LITERALLY walk into a room of ghouls, wraiths, werewolves, whatever to save Donna. I think he is committed to her.

He may be a little goofy, but he ‘knew’ stuff was going on and just backed her play. He ‘could’ have gone to somebody (she was a ‘visiting’ sheriff right, not her own district) and said, these two weird guys showed up and now prisoners are escaping all over the place.

But he backed her play.

But to Paula, I say that Donna and Dean would make me so happy. Because she is a genuinely happy person who would help him to a happy place. I ‘do’ always wish they would be together.

I think she’s just not into Doug and finds any overtures on his part a little irritating because of it. The funny thing is that she’d probably really be into Dean, but she’s so convinced herself he’s way out of her league that she doesn’t notice the soulful Ducky love vibes he keeps throwing her way. Yet, Dean has no problem making her smile with his silly antics.

I agree. I have many times written off a guy I thought was out of my league on my to realize much too late that they were sweet on me.
Sadly too many attractive and fit women are obsessed with being thinner and it erodes confidence.

Well, we’re unfortunately told this a lot by society and many a dudebro is happy to enforce the message. There are a lot more Dougs out there than Deans when it comes to a strong, sturdy woman like Donna. And I do not just mean physical attractiveness.

The thing is that Dean is like a puppy in a pet store with Donna. Ackles really plays that up. You can’t fault Donna for this because the show has given us her point of view, so we *know* she is genuinely oblivious to his feelings, simply due to her own self-esteem issues. She’s not treating him mean. She’s perfectly nice to him when he’s around. She just has a blind spot about his being attracted to her.

Can’t blame Dean for having taste. Donna is smart, kind, fun, low maintenance, handles a machete with aplomb and demonstrated a natural ability in decapitatating her first camp with one blow. She is a queen.

Yes i agree. She looked fabulous in WS though.
ALL woman yet powerful and smart and brave and uber competent. It is great to see an actress with a powerful fit body instead of the usual too skinny to have muscle bodies that society tells us are beautiful.

I am getting in shape after 12 years of inactivity due to illness. Currently cleaning the basement to create space for a home gym.
I got a great deal on an incline trainer and bought trx strap after using it at PT. I will never be skinny I am too muscular and built too much like Betty Boop… or Nicki Minaj.
I can be curvy and fit.
When I was in college I starved myself down to 105 pounds and guys still thought I was big for my size because I had a 2017 ass in 1981 and muscular legs. I was just like Donna emotionally. And just gave up after a point.
I am rather amazed the writers nailed this common mindset even if it was under Carver.

Because Claire is the most like Dean. Because Claire is the hunter we have followed for years as she grew into it.
They are framing Jody as a mom figure.
I loved Claire, and Claire and Kaia. Patience is meh. Alex was okay but kind of a guilt tripper to Claire… definitely Sam light.