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Re: Glenn Apiaries - Pol-Line queens

OK, lets see if I have this right. The USDA selected a number of the best hives from a comercial operation that had some VSH stock, of italian origin I guess. they continued to breed from them selecting for honey production and varoa tolerance,and they appeared to be better than the VSH hives they were compared to.
John

Re: Glenn Apiaries - Pol-Line queens

My understanding, and I don't claim to be an expert, is that the USDA took VSH virgin queens that were outcrossed through open mating in a commercial setting. These outcrossed VSH queens were compared to Russian, and two types of control colonies (Italians). All these were placed into a commercial setting and evaluated. This occurred in 2008 and 2009. In 2011 more VSH outcrosses were added and tested in a commercial setting, with the highest performers being added to the gene pool of the first VSH outcrosses from 2008 and 2009. These groups of outcrosses are what is now considered as Pol-Line bees. At least that's my current understanding.

Re: Glenn Apiaries - Pol-Line queens

Since we're on the subject of Glenn queens, can anyone answer this question? In 2011 I bought five Glenn inseminated queens. One pol-line, one pure dark VSH, one Cordovan and two carnies. Two were superceded almost immediatly. (One carnie and the cordovan) The hives were moved in fall of 2011 and only one original queen overwintered.
This hive (I thought) was marked Glenn Carniolan, but my writing on the hive had faded somewhat by spring.
I grafted from this original inseminated queen all summer, but always wondered if she was the VSH or the Pol-line. I thought the carnie queen was darker that this.
Here is the photo of the original Glenn queen taken this fall:

And one of her daughters. They were all identical in color to Momma:

I'm overwintering about 20 daughters that were the most prolific of the bunch.
Any guesses as to which variety my original breeder queen is?

Re: Glenn Apiaries - Pol-Line queens

Lauri,

Does she still have the numbered disk? If you saved your invoice you should be able to reference her number on the invoice to the disk. If you don't have the invoice and only have her number then perhaps the Glenn's are still responding to emails? However, since you said VSH dark, then my guess is that your girl is likely the Pol-line. Not surprising - every one that I've gotten has been pretty hardy.

Re: Glenn Apiaries - Pol-Line queens

Originally Posted by AstroBee

My understanding, and I don't claim to be an expert, is that the USDA took VSH virgin queens that were outcrossed through open mating in a commercial setting. These outcrossed VSH queens were compared to Russian, and two types of control colonies (Italians). All these were placed into a commercial setting and evaluated. This occurred in 2008 and 2009. In 2011 more VSH outcrosses were added and tested in a commercial setting, with the highest performers being added to the gene pool of the first VSH outcrosses from 2008 and 2009. These groups of outcrosses are what is now considered as Pol-Line bees. At least that's my current understanding.

That's pretty much correct--the idea was to take USDA VSH stock and select it for commercial traits --> take the mite tolerance that VSH offers and incorporate that into commercially suitable lines.

The testing and development is ongoing. People have been very happy with the results.

Re: Glenn Apiaries - Pol-Line queens

I aree with Adam on this. When choosing breeders I like to claim I am not racist. In recent years, though, it seems like I have had to institute a policy similar to what colleges use in their admissions to get at least some color diversity. The darker bees always seem to get overwhelmed by the good ole Italian. BTW love those "stripers" as I like to call them......at least until you try to find them. Notice the workers are both dark and yellow, I always assume I am getting the best of both worlds when I see this kind of diversity.

"People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

Re: Glenn Apiaries - Pol-Line queens

Thanks for the replies,guys.
Ya, I knew she was a Glenn at least and just kept the best daughters to overwinter. I didn't want to bother the Glenns at a busy time of year, and I did look on my invoice but did not see a correlation to her #1 disk number on the list.
If she was the VSH however, I'd use her as more of a drone mother.
I'll just go with the flow and see where it take me.

Re: Glenn Apiaries - Pol-Line queens

Fwiw I did get some Glenn VSH queens and they were fairly dark. None of the 12 I bought lasted more than a year nor did they head very remarkable hives but, of course, that's to be expected with II queens. The overall end result I believe was positive.

"People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

Re: Glenn Apiaries - Pol-Line queens

Yes Jim, that describes my Glenn queen too. Never amounted to much of a colony with the breeder queen. Too Hygienic I expect.
None of the queens I grafted compared to the daughters of my breeder queen of unknown lineage-I collected from a swarm in 2011. Daughters from that queen were Amazingly exceptional in many ways, including laying a full week earlier than my other lines after being bred. They were larger sized when hatched and had faster build up.
I got four different colored daughters out of that queen and have about 50 of them overwintering in nucs.

Re: Glenn Apiaries - Pol-Line queens

Her daughters would make pure vsh drones so no need to waist her in a drone colony.

Originally Posted by Lauri

Thanks for the replies,guys.
Ya, I knew she was a Glenn at least and just kept the best daughters to overwinter. I didn't want to bother the Glenns at a busy time of year, and I did look on my invoice but did not see a correlation to her #1 disk number on the list.
If she was the VSH however, I'd use her as more of a drone mother.
I'll just go with the flow and see where it take me.

Re: Glenn Apiaries - Pol-Line queens

If you are looking for a breeder queen, Adam at VP Queens would be one to talk to.

Velbert here on Beesource has an excellent Pol-line breeder. He shipped me two daughters recently. They arrived on time and in great shape.

I bought 12 from VP Queens this year. 8 Pol-Line and 4 VSH. I purchased virgins so they would be immediatly crossed with my stock here which are mostly Carniolan hybrids. Had 100% acceptance & return mated rate. Thay are laying very well.

If they overwinter well, I'll choose the best to graft from in 2015. I sell on a limited basis.

Re: Glenn Apiaries - Pol-Line queens

It's kind of like having a race horse with Man-o-War in it's ancestry. The advantage was that the line came from a few hives of crosses that were not only surviving rough, migratory beekeeping practices, but thriving as well.

The Glenns continued to improve the stock through I.I. Since the practice was stopped, most are open-mated, so some are better, some are worse. I expect that an adept hand like Adam is breeding some excellent stock, and it appears that Lauri's Pol-Line descendants should do very well. Glad to hear Velbert has some, too.

Put me on the list. PM me with prices. I have a few queens that have gone a bit defensive. They'll make it this winter, and I'd like to re-queen them next year with pure Pol-Line or descendants. Thank you.