So he had to wait for the right circumstances rather than walk into any team when he chooses to.

Yes like Alonso has had to do yet were is the Ferrari or Mercedes contract for him?

Also regarding 1993 it was said that Prost had a veto against Senna which he probably negotiated for himself the previous year in 1992 before Senna actually proclaimed interest in driving for Williams.

Alonso, much like Senna and any other driver can't just pick and choose when and where to go, it has to be under the right circumstances for everybody.

When drivers are clear of contracts like we see with many drivers presently regarding next season.

Yes, circumstances dictate rather than the drivers,whatever their reputation.

Regarding contracts, Alonso with regards to this should be able to choose were he drives between Ferrari and Mercedes if he was head and shoulders the best driver on the grid.

You can class me as a fan if you want, he's one of the drivers I like. Not sure I'd say he's clearly the best of his generation, I tend to go back and forth between him and Lewis.

Blake already stepped forward just before your post.

He was responding to you bringing the best of his generation up with this post...

pokerman wrote:

Generally speaking I have to read posts of how Alonso is the best of his generation yet that doesn't seem to translate to how the people that count seem to view him?

And he actually said there are many who think that rather than he thought it so at the point no-one had said it but yet you still wrote the above.

If you are referring to Blake he clearly thinks that.

He may well do but at the point you felt the need to correct davidheath no-one, including Blake, had actually said it. And the first person to even mention best of his generation was you, in reference to posts declaring him such, posts only you can see apparently, which was davidheaths point in the first place.

Blake posted at the top of page 3 and DavidHeath posted after that, now I will admit there's a good chance he didn't see Blake's post because Blake posted in reply to my post.

Yes like Alonso has had to do yet were is the Ferrari or Mercedes contract for him?

Also regarding 1993 it was said that Prost had a veto against Senna which he probably negotiated for himself the previous year in 1992 before Senna actually proclaimed interest in driving for Williams.

Alonso, much like Senna and any other driver can't just pick and choose when and where to go, it has to be under the right circumstances for everybody.

When drivers are clear of contracts like we see with many drivers presently regarding next season.

Yes, circumstances dictate rather than the drivers,whatever their reputation.

Regarding contracts, Alonso with regards to this should be able to choose were he drives between Ferrari and Mercedes if he was head and shoulders the best driver on the grid.

Says who?. He's 36 and both those teams have top tier drivers around the early 30's and are having great success currently.

Unless he has half a second or more a lap over them, which is laughable, I wouldn't sign him up either. Why change what's working?.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

He was responding to you bringing the best of his generation up with this post...

pokerman wrote:

Generally speaking I have to read posts of how Alonso is the best of his generation yet that doesn't seem to translate to how the people that count seem to view him?

And he actually said there are many who think that rather than he thought it so at the point no-one had said it but yet you still wrote the above.

If you are referring to Blake he clearly thinks that.

He may well do but at the point you felt the need to correct davidheath no-one, including Blake, had actually said it. And the first person to even mention best of his generation was you, in reference to posts declaring him such, posts only you can see apparently, which was davidheaths point in the first place.

Blake posted at the top of page 3 and DavidHeath posted after that, now I will admit there's a good chance he didn't see Blake's post because Blake posted in reply to my post.

No, Blake simply said there are many that feel that rather than simply posting Alonso is the best of bis generation like you keep trying to claim bizarrely. Doesn't matter if you feel Blake is one of them, at the point davidheath pulled you up about having to read invisible posts about Alonso being the best of his generation he was right, no-one had actually said it in this thread.

So go on then, your original comment above about having to read posts about him being the best of his generation, what posts inspired that then?.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

No, Blake simply said there are many that feel that rather than simply posting Alonso is the best of bis generation like you keep trying to claim bizarrely. Doesn't matter if you feel Blake is one of them, at the point davidheath pulled you up about having to read invisible posts about Alonso being the best of his generation he was right, no-one had actually said it in this thread.

So go on then, your original comment above about having to read posts about him being the best of his generation, what posts inspired that then?.

So Blake saying that many people feel that Alonso is the best driver of his generation is different from someone saying he thinks he is the best driver of his generation?

For the record Blake has said this in the past and so as mikeyg, now whether Blake is an Alonso supporter as such maybe he isn't?

DavidHeath states that Alonso supporters themselves do not call Alonso the best driver of his generation which I kind of find strange in itself as it must be only none supporters that say this?

No, Blake simply said there are many that feel that rather than simply posting Alonso is the best of bis generation like you keep trying to claim bizarrely. Doesn't matter if you feel Blake is one of them, at the point davidheath pulled you up about having to read invisible posts about Alonso being the best of his generation he was right, no-one had actually said it in this thread.

So go on then, your original comment above about having to read posts about him being the best of his generation, what posts inspired that then?.

(1). So Blake saying that many people feel that Alonso is the best driver of his generation is different from someone saying he thinks he is the best driver of his generation?

(2). For the record Blake has said this in the past and so as mikeyg, now whether Blake is an Alonso supporter as such maybe he isn't?

(3). DavidHeath states that Alonso supporters themselves do not call Alonso the best driver of his generation which I kind of find strange in itself as it must be only none supporters that say this?

1. He didn't just bring it up out of thin air, he was responding to your post about Alonso being the best of his generation and he didn't state he thinks it himself or that he's an Alonso fan so clearly yes.

2. Maybe davidheath hadn't seen those posts in the past and was assuming you were talking about posts you'd read in this very thread. In fact we don't even have to assume do we, we know he was talking about this thread as he clearly stated it.

3. More strawmen. He clearly states in this thread and he was clearly right when he posted it....

davidheath461 wrote:

The problem is that that you're arguing against imaginery people (or people from other forums, facebook comments, youtube comments etc.).

I don't see any Alonso fans in this thread making claims that Alonso is the best of his generation.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Hey, guys... Can I have a dollar for every time my name is mentioned without me being the discussion? Perhaps I should be flattered that my opinion, or what someone(s) thinks is my opinion, is so worthy of discussion!

I am not sure I understand what the issue is, but let it be known... Yes, MANY do think that Alonso is the best of this generation of drivers. Yes, I am one who believes that. No, I am no more an Alonso fan than I am many of the other drivers, but I cheer for and support the boys in the red cars with Prancing Horses in the logo. I just don't happen to believe that Seb, Kmi, or Lewis are as good as Nando... I believe that is my right of opinion.

One doesn't have to drive for Ferrari, Merc, or such to be the best. One does not have to have 3 or 4 WDCs to be the best. There is no definition to "best" that defines it as the most WDCs in a top car.Stirling Moss was probably the best driver post Fangio up to Clark's heyday. yet he never even won 1 WDC and was often in something less than the top car(s). You simply cannot confuse "best" with most "successful"... they can be one and the same, but do not have to be.

Lastly, if someone has their nose out of joint because I, and others, feel that Fernando Alonso is better than their living idol... so be it.

Hey, guys... Can I have a dollar for every time my name is mentioned without me being the discussion? Perhaps I should be flattered that my opinion, or what someone(s) thinks is my opinion, is so worthy of discussion!

I am not sure I understand what the issue is, but let it be known... Yes, MANY do think that Alonso is the best of this generation of drivers. Yes, I am one who believes that. No, I am no more an Alonso fan than I am many of the other drivers, but I cheer for and support the boys in the red cars with Prancing Horses in the logo. I just don't happen to believe that Seb, Kmi, or Lewis are as good as Nando... I believe that is my right of opinion.

One doesn't have to drive for Ferrari, Merc, or such to be the best. One does not have to have 3 or 4 WDCs to be the best. There is no definition to "best" that defines it as the most WDCs in a top car.Stirling Moss was probably the best driver post Fangio up to Clark's heyday. yet he never even won 1 WDC and was often in something less than the top car(s). You simply cannot confuse "best" with most "successful"... they can be one and the same, but do not have to be.

Lastly, if someone has their nose out of joint because I, and others, feel that Fernando Alonso is better than their living idol... so be it.

That being said why don't either Ferrari or Mercedes want him if he is the best driver of his generation, is it because of what Brundle says or maybe as put forward by one poster he's basically too old for another contract which I find hard to believe.

You being a Ferrari fan Blake why does your beloved team not want Alonso back even amongst rumours of Vettel only wanting a 1 year contract?

Hey, guys... Can I have a dollar for every time my name is mentioned without me being the discussion? Perhaps I should be flattered that my opinion, or what someone(s) thinks is my opinion, is so worthy of discussion!

I am not sure I understand what the issue is, but let it be known... Yes, MANY do think that Alonso is the best of this generation of drivers. Yes, I am one who believes that. No, I am no more an Alonso fan than I am many of the other drivers, but I cheer for and support the boys in the red cars with Prancing Horses in the logo. I just don't happen to believe that Seb, Kmi, or Lewis are as good as Nando... I believe that is my right of opinion.

One doesn't have to drive for Ferrari, Merc, or such to be the best. One does not have to have 3 or 4 WDCs to be the best. There is no definition to "best" that defines it as the most WDCs in a top car.Stirling Moss was probably the best driver post Fangio up to Clark's heyday. yet he never even won 1 WDC and was often in something less than the top car(s). You simply cannot confuse "best" with most "successful"... they can be one and the same, but do not have to be.

Lastly, if someone has their nose out of joint because I, and others, feel that Fernando Alonso is better than their living idol... so be it.

That being said why don't either Ferrari or Mercedes want him if he is the best driver of his generation, is it because of what Brundle says or maybe as put forward by one poster he's basically too old for another contract which I find hard to believe.

You being a Ferrari fan Blake why does your beloved team not want Alonso back even amongst rumours of Vettel only wanting a 1 year contract?

Vettel is currently leading the WDC. Why fix what's not broken?

Alonso is in the same position as when Hamilton wanted out of McLaren in 2012. The other top teams shooed him away from their door. Mercedes was far from his first choice and he very nearly stuck it out with McLaren. It would be the equivalent of Alonso leaving for Renault next year

Hey, guys... Can I have a dollar for every time my name is mentioned without me being the discussion? Perhaps I should be flattered that my opinion, or what someone(s) thinks is my opinion, is so worthy of discussion!

I am not sure I understand what the issue is, but let it be known... Yes, MANY do think that Alonso is the best of this generation of drivers. Yes, I am one who believes that. No, I am no more an Alonso fan than I am many of the other drivers, but I cheer for and support the boys in the red cars with Prancing Horses in the logo. I just don't happen to believe that Seb, Kmi, or Lewis are as good as Nando... I believe that is my right of opinion.

One doesn't have to drive for Ferrari, Merc, or such to be the best. One does not have to have 3 or 4 WDCs to be the best. There is no definition to "best" that defines it as the most WDCs in a top car.Stirling Moss was probably the best driver post Fangio up to Clark's heyday. yet he never even won 1 WDC and was often in something less than the top car(s). You simply cannot confuse "best" with most "successful"... they can be one and the same, but do not have to be.

Lastly, if someone has their nose out of joint because I, and others, feel that Fernando Alonso is better than their living idol... so be it.

That being said why don't either Ferrari or Mercedes want him if he is the best driver of his generation, is it because of what Brundle says or maybe as put forward by one poster he's basically too old for another contract which I find hard to believe.

You being a Ferrari fan Blake why does your beloved team not want Alonso back even amongst rumours of Vettel only wanting a 1 year contract?

Vettel is currently leading the WDC. Why fix what's not broken?

Alonso is in the same position as when Hamilton wanted out of McLaren in 2012. The other top teams shooed him away from their door. Mercedes was far from his first choice and he very nearly stuck it out with McLaren. It would be the equivalent of Alonso leaving for Renault next year

Signing Vettel makes perfect sense but what doesn't make sense for Ferrari would be agreeing to sign him for just 1 year, who holds all the cards here?

It can make sense for Ferrari if they think Lewis would be interested in going the other way. (Assuming they think Seb only wants 1yr because of Mercedes of course).

Risky but I can see the logic.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

The problem with Alonso is what team would take him that would be a significant upgrade over McLaren?

Mercedes: As much as both Hamilton and Alonso say they could work together again, I honestly don't think either would be terribly keen on the idea if it was actually a reality. From Mercedes point of view, why would you even rock the boat when you have a star driver in Hamilton and a very solid number 2 in Bottas? They get along and seem like a good pairing.

Red Bull: Apart from the fact that they promote from within, Is it actually a given that Alonso would be significantly faster than either Ricciardo or Verstappen? Plus Red Bull like paying very little for drivers, Alonso comes with a price tag to match! ( Although I do believe he'd take a paycut if it meant a possible WDC )

Ferrari: Out of all three TT options, until Kimi signed, I'd actually rank this one as probable. Ferrari do have the advantage of KNOWING what Alonso is like, whether good or bad, they at least have experience in having him on the team. I'd say that Vettel wouldn't want the headache of having a properly fast teammate and given that Ferrari like the clear 1 and 2 driver, unless Vettel left and for some reason couldn't get Hamilton, I'd say he'd be in with a shot.

Renault: Renault I'd almost put in the same camp as McLaren, Could be fast in the future, but not right now. It would be a risk to move from McLaren to Renault because their future is just as doubtful as McLarens, Possibly even moreso.McLaren will at least stay in Formula 1 until they can't anymore, Renault will leave the sport as soon as the powers that be decide it's not worth it.Which could be only a couple of years away for all we know.

You could say that FI and Williams would be an significant upgrade, But he isn't going to compete for the WDC or even Wins with those teams.

_________________Any and all opinions are my own, they do not reflect the opinions of the FIA, FOM, Teams, Drivers, PlanetF1, Phase of the Moon, Rotation of the Earth or Aliens.

Hey, guys... Can I have a dollar for every time my name is mentioned without me being the discussion? Perhaps I should be flattered that my opinion, or what someone(s) thinks is my opinion, is so worthy of discussion!

I am not sure I understand what the issue is, but let it be known... Yes, MANY do think that Alonso is the best of this generation of drivers. Yes, I am one who believes that. No, I am no more an Alonso fan than I am many of the other drivers, but I cheer for and support the boys in the red cars with Prancing Horses in the logo. I just don't happen to believe that Seb, Kmi, or Lewis are as good as Nando... I believe that is my right of opinion.

One doesn't have to drive for Ferrari, Merc, or such to be the best. One does not have to have 3 or 4 WDCs to be the best. There is no definition to "best" that defines it as the most WDCs in a top car.Stirling Moss was probably the best driver post Fangio up to Clark's heyday. yet he never even won 1 WDC and was often in something less than the top car(s). You simply cannot confuse "best" with most "successful"... they can be one and the same, but do not have to be.

Lastly, if someone has their nose out of joint because I, and others, feel that Fernando Alonso is better than their living idol... so be it.

That being said why don't either Ferrari or Mercedes want him if he is the best driver of his generation, is it because of what Brundle says or maybe as put forward by one poster he's basically too old for another contract which I find hard to believe.

You being a Ferrari fan Blake why does your beloved team not want Alonso back even amongst rumours of Vettel only wanting a 1 year contract?

Be fair. It's probably for the same reasons why nobody wanted Lewis when he was desperate to leave McLaren. The teams were happy with their current line ups and didn't feel that adding Lewis would be beneficial. Didn't Horner at the time say something on the lines of Lewis potentially upsetting the harmony within the team?

But all that doesn't mean they don't rate Lewis. I'll bet every TP feels that Lewis is one of the best drivers of his generation, just like every TP likely feels that Alonso is. I'd go so far as to say that both would feature in most, if not all, TP top threes. But that doesn't automatically mean they would be willing to upset the dynamics in the team to accommodate either. If they didn't have a star driver at the tine, it would likely be a very different story. I'd bet my house that if Lewis were to announce his retirement it would take less than a week for Mercedes to confirm Alonso as his replacement. Ditto if Vettel did the same at Ferrari. But having those undoubted stars in their teams gives them the luxury of choice, that's all. I suspect most TPs are more than happy with one superstar driver and one backup in their line ups.

Hey, guys... Can I have a dollar for every time my name is mentioned without me being the discussion? Perhaps I should be flattered that my opinion, or what someone(s) thinks is my opinion, is so worthy of discussion!

I am not sure I understand what the issue is, but let it be known... Yes, MANY do think that Alonso is the best of this generation of drivers. Yes, I am one who believes that. No, I am no more an Alonso fan than I am many of the other drivers, but I cheer for and support the boys in the red cars with Prancing Horses in the logo. I just don't happen to believe that Seb, Kmi, or Lewis are as good as Nando... I believe that is my right of opinion.

One doesn't have to drive for Ferrari, Merc, or such to be the best. One does not have to have 3 or 4 WDCs to be the best. There is no definition to "best" that defines it as the most WDCs in a top car.Stirling Moss was probably the best driver post Fangio up to Clark's heyday. yet he never even won 1 WDC and was often in something less than the top car(s). You simply cannot confuse "best" with most "successful"... they can be one and the same, but do not have to be.

Lastly, if someone has their nose out of joint because I, and others, feel that Fernando Alonso is better than their living idol... so be it.

That being said why don't either Ferrari or Mercedes want him if he is the best driver of his generation, is it because of what Brundle says or maybe as put forward by one poster he's basically too old for another contract which I find hard to believe.

You being a Ferrari fan Blake why does your beloved team not want Alonso back even amongst rumours of Vettel only wanting a 1 year contract?

Be fair. It's probably for the same reasons why nobody wanted Lewis when he was desperate to leave McLaren. The teams were happy with their current line ups and didn't feel that adding Lewis would be beneficial. Didn't Horner at the time say something on the lines of Lewis potentially upsetting the harmony within the team?

But all that doesn't mean they don't rate Lewis. I'll bet every TP feels that Lewis is one of the best drivers of his generation, just like every TP likely feels that Alonso is. I'd go so far as to say that both would feature in most, if not all, TP top threes. But that doesn't automatically mean they would be willing to upset the dynamics in the team to accommodate either. If they didn't have a star driver at the tine, it would likely be a very different story. I'd bet my house that if Lewis were to announce his retirement it would take less than a week for Mercedes to confirm Alonso as his replacement. Ditto if Vettel did the same at Ferrari. But having those undoubted stars in their teams gives them the luxury of choice, that's all. I suspect most TPs are more than happy with one superstar driver and one backup in their line ups.

Yes indeed this as much as anything, now if the TP's thought that Alonso was a cut above both Vettel and Hamilton do you think their attitude would be different, when things are as close as they are having the very best driver in your car could make all the difference?

Hey, guys... Can I have a dollar for every time my name is mentioned without me being the discussion? Perhaps I should be flattered that my opinion, or what someone(s) thinks is my opinion, is so worthy of discussion!

I am not sure I understand what the issue is, but let it be known... Yes, MANY do think that Alonso is the best of this generation of drivers. Yes, I am one who believes that. No, I am no more an Alonso fan than I am many of the other drivers, but I cheer for and support the boys in the red cars with Prancing Horses in the logo. I just don't happen to believe that Seb, Kmi, or Lewis are as good as Nando... I believe that is my right of opinion.

One doesn't have to drive for Ferrari, Merc, or such to be the best. One does not have to have 3 or 4 WDCs to be the best. There is no definition to "best" that defines it as the most WDCs in a top car.Stirling Moss was probably the best driver post Fangio up to Clark's heyday. yet he never even won 1 WDC and was often in something less than the top car(s). You simply cannot confuse "best" with most "successful"... they can be one and the same, but do not have to be.

Lastly, if someone has their nose out of joint because I, and others, feel that Fernando Alonso is better than their living idol... so be it.

That being said why don't either Ferrari or Mercedes want him if he is the best driver of his generation, is it because of what Brundle says or maybe as put forward by one poster he's basically too old for another contract which I find hard to believe.

You being a Ferrari fan Blake why does your beloved team not want Alonso back even amongst rumours of Vettel only wanting a 1 year contract?

Vettel is currently leading the WDC. Why fix what's not broken?

Alonso is in the same position as when Hamilton wanted out of McLaren in 2012. The other top teams shooed him away from their door. Mercedes was far from his first choice and he very nearly stuck it out with McLaren. It would be the equivalent of Alonso leaving for Renault next year

Signing Vettel makes perfect sense but what doesn't make sense for Ferrari would be agreeing to sign him for just 1 year, who holds all the cards here?

Am I missing something here? Ferrari don't want to sign him for 1 year

... that doesn't automatically mean they would be willing to upset the dynamics in the team to accommodate either [Alonso or Hamilton]. If they didn't have a star driver at the tine, it would likely be a very different story...

Exactly. Correct me if I am mistaken but didn't one TP mention something along the lines of avoiding 'two roosters in the hen-house?'

Hey, guys... Can I have a dollar for every time my name is mentioned without me being the discussion? Perhaps I should be flattered that my opinion, or what someone(s) thinks is my opinion, is so worthy of discussion!

I am not sure I understand what the issue is, but let it be known... Yes, MANY do think that Alonso is the best of this generation of drivers. Yes, I am one who believes that. No, I am no more an Alonso fan than I am many of the other drivers, but I cheer for and support the boys in the red cars with Prancing Horses in the logo. I just don't happen to believe that Seb, Kmi, or Lewis are as good as Nando... I believe that is my right of opinion.

One doesn't have to drive for Ferrari, Merc, or such to be the best. One does not have to have 3 or 4 WDCs to be the best. There is no definition to "best" that defines it as the most WDCs in a top car.Stirling Moss was probably the best driver post Fangio up to Clark's heyday. yet he never even won 1 WDC and was often in something less than the top car(s). You simply cannot confuse "best" with most "successful"... they can be one and the same, but do not have to be.

Lastly, if someone has their nose out of joint because I, and others, feel that Fernando Alonso is better than their living idol... so be it.

That being said why don't either Ferrari or Mercedes want him if he is the best driver of his generation, is it because of what Brundle says or maybe as put forward by one poster he's basically too old for another contract which I find hard to believe.

You being a Ferrari fan Blake why does your beloved team not want Alonso back even amongst rumours of Vettel only wanting a 1 year contract?

Be fair. It's probably for the same reasons why nobody wanted Lewis when he was desperate to leave McLaren. The teams were happy with their current line ups and didn't feel that adding Lewis would be beneficial. Didn't Horner at the time say something on the lines of Lewis potentially upsetting the harmony within the team?

But all that doesn't mean they don't rate Lewis. I'll bet every TP feels that Lewis is one of the best drivers of his generation, just like every TP likely feels that Alonso is. I'd go so far as to say that both would feature in most, if not all, TP top threes. But that doesn't automatically mean they would be willing to upset the dynamics in the team to accommodate either. If they didn't have a star driver at the tine, it would likely be a very different story. I'd bet my house that if Lewis were to announce his retirement it would take less than a week for Mercedes to confirm Alonso as his replacement. Ditto if Vettel did the same at Ferrari. But having those undoubted stars in their teams gives them the luxury of choice, that's all. I suspect most TPs are more than happy with one superstar driver and one backup in their line ups.

Yes indeed this as much as anything, now if the TP's thought that Alonso was a cut above both Vettel and Hamilton do you think their attitude would be different, when things are as close as they are having the very best driver in your car could make all the difference?

It all depends how much extra they think he would be likely to bring. Even if they think Driver A is Better than Driver B overall, if there are no massive gains to be made then it may not be worth all the extra cost and undoubted aggro to bring him onboard

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Hey, guys... Can I have a dollar for every time my name is mentioned without me being the discussion? Perhaps I should be flattered that my opinion, or what someone(s) thinks is my opinion, is so worthy of discussion!

I am not sure I understand what the issue is, but let it be known... Yes, MANY do think that Alonso is the best of this generation of drivers. Yes, I am one who believes that. No, I am no more an Alonso fan than I am many of the other drivers, but I cheer for and support the boys in the red cars with Prancing Horses in the logo. I just don't happen to believe that Seb, Kmi, or Lewis are as good as Nando... I believe that is my right of opinion.

One doesn't have to drive for Ferrari, Merc, or such to be the best. One does not have to have 3 or 4 WDCs to be the best. There is no definition to "best" that defines it as the most WDCs in a top car.Stirling Moss was probably the best driver post Fangio up to Clark's heyday. yet he never even won 1 WDC and was often in something less than the top car(s). You simply cannot confuse "best" with most "successful"... they can be one and the same, but do not have to be.

Lastly, if someone has their nose out of joint because I, and others, feel that Fernando Alonso is better than their living idol... so be it.

That being said why don't either Ferrari or Mercedes want him if he is the best driver of his generation, is it because of what Brundle says or maybe as put forward by one poster he's basically too old for another contract which I find hard to believe.

You being a Ferrari fan Blake why does your beloved team not want Alonso back even amongst rumours of Vettel only wanting a 1 year contract?

Vettel is currently leading the WDC. Why fix what's not broken?

Alonso is in the same position as when Hamilton wanted out of McLaren in 2012. The other top teams shooed him away from their door. Mercedes was far from his first choice and he very nearly stuck it out with McLaren. It would be the equivalent of Alonso leaving for Renault next year

Signing Vettel makes perfect sense but what doesn't make sense for Ferrari would be agreeing to sign him for just 1 year, who holds all the cards here?

Am I missing something here? Ferrari don't want to sign him for 1 year

No there was a rumour that Vettel only wanted 1 year, anyway he's signed for 3 years now.

Hey, guys... Can I have a dollar for every time my name is mentioned without me being the discussion? Perhaps I should be flattered that my opinion, or what someone(s) thinks is my opinion, is so worthy of discussion!

I am not sure I understand what the issue is, but let it be known... Yes, MANY do think that Alonso is the best of this generation of drivers. Yes, I am one who believes that. No, I am no more an Alonso fan than I am many of the other drivers, but I cheer for and support the boys in the red cars with Prancing Horses in the logo. I just don't happen to believe that Seb, Kmi, or Lewis are as good as Nando... I believe that is my right of opinion.

One doesn't have to drive for Ferrari, Merc, or such to be the best. One does not have to have 3 or 4 WDCs to be the best. There is no definition to "best" that defines it as the most WDCs in a top car.Stirling Moss was probably the best driver post Fangio up to Clark's heyday. yet he never even won 1 WDC and was often in something less than the top car(s). You simply cannot confuse "best" with most "successful"... they can be one and the same, but do not have to be.

Lastly, if someone has their nose out of joint because I, and others, feel that Fernando Alonso is better than their living idol... so be it.

That being said why don't either Ferrari or Mercedes want him if he is the best driver of his generation, is it because of what Brundle says or maybe as put forward by one poster he's basically too old for another contract which I find hard to believe.

You being a Ferrari fan Blake why does your beloved team not want Alonso back even amongst rumours of Vettel only wanting a 1 year contract?

Be fair. It's probably for the same reasons why nobody wanted Lewis when he was desperate to leave McLaren. The teams were happy with their current line ups and didn't feel that adding Lewis would be beneficial. Didn't Horner at the time say something on the lines of Lewis potentially upsetting the harmony within the team?

But all that doesn't mean they don't rate Lewis. I'll bet every TP feels that Lewis is one of the best drivers of his generation, just like every TP likely feels that Alonso is. I'd go so far as to say that both would feature in most, if not all, TP top threes. But that doesn't automatically mean they would be willing to upset the dynamics in the team to accommodate either. If they didn't have a star driver at the tine, it would likely be a very different story. I'd bet my house that if Lewis were to announce his retirement it would take less than a week for Mercedes to confirm Alonso as his replacement. Ditto if Vettel did the same at Ferrari. But having those undoubted stars in their teams gives them the luxury of choice, that's all. I suspect most TPs are more than happy with one superstar driver and one backup in their line ups.

Yes indeed this as much as anything, now if the TP's thought that Alonso was a cut above both Vettel and Hamilton do you think their attitude would be different, when things are as close as they are having the very best driver in your car could make all the difference?

It all depends how much extra they think he would be likely to bring. Even if they think Driver A is Better than Driver B overall, if there are no massive gains to be made then it may not be worth all the extra cost and undoubted aggro to bring him onboard

I would think that you always want the best to lead the team, if there's little to choose then a team must already think that they have the best.

That being said why don't either Ferrari or Mercedes want him if he is the best driver of his generation, is it because of what Brundle says or maybe as put forward by one poster he's basically too old for another contract which I find hard to believe.

You being a Ferrari fan Blake why does your beloved team not want Alonso back even amongst rumours of Vettel only wanting a 1 year contract?

Be fair. It's probably for the same reasons why nobody wanted Lewis when he was desperate to leave McLaren. The teams were happy with their current line ups and didn't feel that adding Lewis would be beneficial. Didn't Horner at the time say something on the lines of Lewis potentially upsetting the harmony within the team?

But all that doesn't mean they don't rate Lewis. I'll bet every TP feels that Lewis is one of the best drivers of his generation, just like every TP likely feels that Alonso is. I'd go so far as to say that both would feature in most, if not all, TP top threes. But that doesn't automatically mean they would be willing to upset the dynamics in the team to accommodate either. If they didn't have a star driver at the tine, it would likely be a very different story. I'd bet my house that if Lewis were to announce his retirement it would take less than a week for Mercedes to confirm Alonso as his replacement. Ditto if Vettel did the same at Ferrari. But having those undoubted stars in their teams gives them the luxury of choice, that's all. I suspect most TPs are more than happy with one superstar driver and one backup in their line ups.

Yes indeed this as much as anything, now if the TP's thought that Alonso was a cut above both Vettel and Hamilton do you think their attitude would be different, when things are as close as they are having the very best driver in your car could make all the difference?

It all depends how much extra they think he would be likely to bring. Even if they think Driver A is Better than Driver B overall, if there are no massive gains to be made then it may not be worth all the extra cost and undoubted aggro to bring him onboard

I would think that you always want the best to lead the team, if there's little to choose then a team must already think that they have the best.

I agree you'd always want the best. But if 2nd best is almost as good then overhauling everything to get the very best might not be practical or desirable.

On Sunday Martin Brundle said it's believed Vettel has a clause in his contract that Alonso can't be signed as his teammate. I'd wager there's a Ricciardo clause in there too

I'm disappointed in Brundle that he'd peddle this rubbish. He'll know people will lap it up, but there's not a shred of proof behind it. He's just gossip mongering and I thought he was better than that.

I read that he tweeted about Kimi's penalty in Spa and referenced Vettel's for his brain fade, comparing the two penalties. It's looking increasingly like Brundle has some sort of hard on for Vettel and is looking to knock him any chance he has. Case of patriotism clouding his judgement, perhaps?

On Sunday Martin Brundle said it's believed Vettel has a clause in his contract that Alonso can't be signed as his teammate. I'd wager there's a Ricciardo clause in there too

I'm disappointed in Brundle that he'd peddle this rubbish. He'll know people will lap it up, but there's not a shred of proof behind it. He's just gossip mongering and I thought he was better than that.

I read that he tweeted about Kimi's penalty in Spa and referenced Vettel's for his brain fade, comparing the two penalties. It's looking increasingly like Brundle has some sort of hard on for Vettel and is looking to knock him any chance he has. Case of patriotism clouding his judgement, perhaps?

In fairness maybe he does actually know that Vettel has that clause? He has a lot of friends around the paddock still and I've heard him say before in an interview that he is told a lot in confidence and often has to hold back on telling the audience exactly what is going on behind the scenes because he doesn't like to break those confidences. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he has been told by someone ITK that the clause exists.

So you don't know it's rubbish any more than you don't know it's true. I would hazard a guess Brundle wouldn't say it unless he was pretty sure it was true though. I mean, why would he lie?

Why shouldn't he compare the two penalties. Do you not find it odd that deliberately banging into an opponent out of anger gets the same penalty as ignoring yellow flags?

On Sunday Martin Brundle said it's believed Vettel has a clause in his contract that Alonso can't be signed as his teammate. I'd wager there's a Ricciardo clause in there too

I'm disappointed in Brundle that he'd peddle this rubbish. He'll know people will lap it up, but there's not a shred of proof behind it. He's just gossip mongering and I thought he was better than that.

I read that he tweeted about Kimi's penalty in Spa and referenced Vettel's for his brain fade, comparing the two penalties. It's looking increasingly like Brundle has some sort of hard on for Vettel and is looking to knock him any chance he has. Case of patriotism clouding his judgement, perhaps?

In fairness maybe he does actually know that Vettel has that clause? He has a lot of friends around the paddock still and I've heard him say before in an interview that he is told a lot in confidence and often has to hold back on telling the audience exactly what is going on behind the scenes because he doesn't like to break those confidences. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he has been told by someone ITK that the clause exists.

So you don't know it's rubbish any more than you don't know it's true. I would hazard a guess Brundle wouldn't say it unless he was pretty sure it was true though. I mean, why would he lie?

Why shouldn't he compare the two penalties. Do you not find it odd that deliberately banging into an opponent out of anger gets the same penalty as ignoring yellow flags?

It's rubbish because no-one can either confirm or deny it without showing a copy of the contract itself, which is obviously never going to happen. Saying "it's believed" and then creating smoke is just gutter journalism.

Referencing the Vettel penalty just shows that Brundle has a bee in his bonnet about it. Incidentally, both are the highest penalties which a steward may give, short of complete disqualification, so I'm not really sure what he's expecting. He sounds a bit bitter and twisted about it to me. Kimi passed under double waved yellows, which is a lot more severe than single, hence the severity of the punishment. If anything, Kimi's may be considered potentially more dangerous, as the whole point of double waved yellows is that the conditions are treacherous for someone. Ignoring it potentially puts lives at risk. Vettel may have been idiotic, but only the most hysterical would consider what he did to be potentially life threatening. So why bother commparing the two when they are so different? Just shows an agenda IMO.

Finally, I think Brundle's motivation may easily be explained by my earlier comment about letting his patriotism cloud his judgement. I'm getting the strong feeling from him that with certain drivers he's undoubtedly less than impartial.

On Sunday Martin Brundle said it's believed Vettel has a clause in his contract that Alonso can't be signed as his teammate. I'd wager there's a Ricciardo clause in there too

I'm disappointed in Brundle that he'd peddle this rubbish. He'll know people will lap it up, but there's not a shred of proof behind it. He's just gossip mongering and I thought he was better than that.

I read that he tweeted about Kimi's penalty in Spa and referenced Vettel's for his brain fade, comparing the two penalties. It's looking increasingly like Brundle has some sort of hard on for Vettel and is looking to knock him any chance he has. Case of patriotism clouding his judgement, perhaps?

In fairness maybe he does actually know that Vettel has that clause? He has a lot of friends around the paddock still and I've heard him say before in an interview that he is told a lot in confidence and often has to hold back on telling the audience exactly what is going on behind the scenes because he doesn't like to break those confidences. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he has been told by someone ITK that the clause exists.

So you don't know it's rubbish any more than you don't know it's true. I would hazard a guess Brundle wouldn't say it unless he was pretty sure it was true though. I mean, why would he lie?

Why shouldn't he compare the two penalties. Do you not find it odd that deliberately banging into an opponent out of anger gets the same penalty as ignoring yellow flags?

It's rubbish because no-one can either confirm or deny it without showing a copy of the contract itself, which is obviously never going to happen. Saying "it's believed" and then creating smoke is just gutter journalism.

Referencing the Vettel penalty just shows that Brundle has a bee in his bonnet about it. Incidentally, both are the highest penalties which a steward may give, short of complete disqualification, so I'm not really sure what he's expecting. He sounds a bit bitter and twisted about it to me. Kimi passed under double waved yellows, which is a lot more severe than single, hence the severity of the punishment. If anything, Kimi's may be considered potentially more dangerous, as the whole point of double waved yellows is that the conditions are treacherous for someone. Ignoring it potentially puts lives at risk. Vettel may have been idiotic, but only the most hysterical would consider what he did to be potentially life threatening. So why bother commparing the two when they are so different? Just shows an agenda IMO.

Finally, I think Brundle's motivation may easily be explained by my earlier comment about letting his patriotism cloud his judgement. I'm getting the strong feeling from him that with certain drivers he's undoubtedly less than impartial.

Would you be saying it was "rubbish" if Brundle had said he had heard that there was no Alonso clause in Vettel's contract? I mean you would again need to see the contract to confirm it right?

By the way. I agree I have no problem for harsh penalties for ignoring double waved yellows. The fact that drivers do it shows the contempt for which they really view safety.

On Sunday Martin Brundle said it's believed Vettel has a clause in his contract that Alonso can't be signed as his teammate. I'd wager there's a Ricciardo clause in there too

I'm disappointed in Brundle that he'd peddle this rubbish. He'll know people will lap it up, but there's not a shred of proof behind it. He's just gossip mongering and I thought he was better than that.

I read that he tweeted about Kimi's penalty in Spa and referenced Vettel's for his brain fade, comparing the two penalties. It's looking increasingly like Brundle has some sort of hard on for Vettel and is looking to knock him any chance he has. Case of patriotism clouding his judgement, perhaps?

In fairness maybe he does actually know that Vettel has that clause? He has a lot of friends around the paddock still and I've heard him say before in an interview that he is told a lot in confidence and often has to hold back on telling the audience exactly what is going on behind the scenes because he doesn't like to break those confidences. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he has been told by someone ITK that the clause exists.

So you don't know it's rubbish any more than you don't know it's true. I would hazard a guess Brundle wouldn't say it unless he was pretty sure it was true though. I mean, why would he lie?

Why shouldn't he compare the two penalties. Do you not find it odd that deliberately banging into an opponent out of anger gets the same penalty as ignoring yellow flags?

It's rubbish because no-one can either confirm or deny it without showing a copy of the contract itself, which is obviously never going to happen. Saying "it's believed" and then creating smoke is just gutter journalism.

Referencing the Vettel penalty just shows that Brundle has a bee in his bonnet about it. Incidentally, both are the highest penalties which a steward may give, short of complete disqualification, so I'm not really sure what he's expecting. He sounds a bit bitter and twisted about it to me. Kimi passed under double waved yellows, which is a lot more severe than single, hence the severity of the punishment. If anything, Kimi's may be considered potentially more dangerous, as the whole point of double waved yellows is that the conditions are treacherous for someone. Ignoring it potentially puts lives at risk. Vettel may have been idiotic, but only the most hysterical would consider what he did to be potentially life threatening. So why bother commparing the two when they are so different? Just shows an agenda IMO.

Finally, I think Brundle's motivation may easily be explained by my earlier comment about letting his patriotism cloud his judgement. I'm getting the strong feeling from him that with certain drivers he's undoubtedly less than impartial.

Would you be saying it was "rubbish" if Brundle had said he had heard that there was no Alonso clause in Vettel's contract? I mean you would again need to see the contract to confirm it right?

By the way. I agree I have no problem for harsh penalties for ignoring double waved yellows. The fact that drivers do it shows the contempt for which they really view safety.

In all honesty, do you think that's the same? Declaring a positive is like lighting a match to a fuse and then running away, while asserting a negative doesn't have anywhere near the same impact.

On Sunday Martin Brundle said it's believed Vettel has a clause in his contract that Alonso can't be signed as his teammate. I'd wager there's a Ricciardo clause in there too

I'm disappointed in Brundle that he'd peddle this rubbish. He'll know people will lap it up, but there's not a shred of proof behind it. He's just gossip mongering and I thought he was better than that.

I read that he tweeted about Kimi's penalty in Spa and referenced Vettel's for his brain fade, comparing the two penalties. It's looking increasingly like Brundle has some sort of hard on for Vettel and is looking to knock him any chance he has. Case of patriotism clouding his judgement, perhaps?

How can you call it rubbish when you have as much access to knowing these things as I do as in no access as well.

Meanwhile Hamilton says he's aware that Vettel will not countenance being in the same team as him, I think people in the paddock get to know such things.

On Sunday Martin Brundle said it's believed Vettel has a clause in his contract that Alonso can't be signed as his teammate. I'd wager there's a Ricciardo clause in there too

I'm disappointed in Brundle that he'd peddle this rubbish. He'll know people will lap it up, but there's not a shred of proof behind it. He's just gossip mongering and I thought he was better than that.

I read that he tweeted about Kimi's penalty in Spa and referenced Vettel's for his brain fade, comparing the two penalties. It's looking increasingly like Brundle has some sort of hard on for Vettel and is looking to knock him any chance he has. Case of patriotism clouding his judgement, perhaps?

How can you call it rubbish when you have as much access to knowing these things as I do as in no access as well.

Meanwhile Hamilton says he's aware that Vettel will not countenance being in the same team as him, I think people in the paddock get to know such things.

Perhaps the use of 'rubbish' is a little extreme. But all I see is 'Brundle says' and 'Hamilton says.' When Vettel himself says, I'll accept it.

On Sunday Martin Brundle said it's believed Vettel has a clause in his contract that Alonso can't be signed as his teammate. I'd wager there's a Ricciardo clause in there too

I'm disappointed in Brundle that he'd peddle this rubbish. He'll know people will lap it up, but there's not a shred of proof behind it. He's just gossip mongering and I thought he was better than that.

I read that he tweeted about Kimi's penalty in Spa and referenced Vettel's for his brain fade, comparing the two penalties. It's looking increasingly like Brundle has some sort of hard on for Vettel and is looking to knock him any chance he has. Case of patriotism clouding his judgement, perhaps?

How can you call it rubbish when you have as much access to knowing these things as I do as in no access as well.

Meanwhile Hamilton says he's aware that Vettel will not countenance being in the same team as him, I think people in the paddock get to know such things.

Perhaps the use of 'rubbish' is a little extreme. But all I see is 'Brundle says' and 'Hamilton says.' When Vettel himself says, I'll accept it.

Well that's not going to happen because he knows that would only look bad on him, you think the paddock doesn't get to know such things?

On Sunday Martin Brundle said it's believed Vettel has a clause in his contract that Alonso can't be signed as his teammate. I'd wager there's a Ricciardo clause in there too

I'm disappointed in Brundle that he'd peddle this rubbish. He'll know people will lap it up, but there's not a shred of proof behind it. He's just gossip mongering and I thought he was better than that.

I read that he tweeted about Kimi's penalty in Spa and referenced Vettel's for his brain fade, comparing the two penalties. It's looking increasingly like Brundle has some sort of hard on for Vettel and is looking to knock him any chance he has. Case of patriotism clouding his judgement, perhaps?

How can you call it rubbish when you have as much access to knowing these things as I do as in no access as well.

Meanwhile Hamilton says he's aware that Vettel will not countenance being in the same team as him, I think people in the paddock get to know such things.

Perhaps the use of 'rubbish' is a little extreme. But all I see is 'Brundle says' and 'Hamilton says.' When Vettel himself says, I'll accept it.

Well that's not going to happen because he knows that would only look bad on him, you think the paddock doesn't get to know such things?

I'm sure it does. I'm sure we all do. One would also be inclined to assume that word from the fraternity itself would carry some weight. It isn't necessarily correct, though.One other point I'll add is that specific drivers may not want to be coupled with another 'top' driver simply to avoid the two-roosters-in-the-hen-house scenario. I'm sure that this is also uppermost in the minds of certain team prinicipals. So I'll add context to this specific discussion.

On Sunday Martin Brundle said it's believed Vettel has a clause in his contract that Alonso can't be signed as his teammate. I'd wager there's a Ricciardo clause in there too

Personally, I'd "wager" that there is no such mention in Vettel's contract for either of those drivers or any other driver. Just paddock baloney being used to "sell papers" most likely.

If you think drivers don't have clauses in their contracts about other specific drivers then I don't know what to say. It has definitely happened in the past and it's not preposterous to assume that it's ongoing practice