Apple, the world's most successful brand, is being sued by a Los Angeles law firm for "deceptively" marketing the new 20-inch iMac
Kabateck Brown Kellner says the monitor is "vastly inferior to the previous generation it replaced", not that you would know it from Apple's "grossly inflated" claims.
According to the law firm, …

COMMENTS

Page:

Love it

I love it, a company gets sued because they falsely advertise a new product and suddenly its back to the old wars of Mac is better than PC and whatnot.

Who even cares. The fact is, if you lie about something, you better cleanup your act.

If you like Mac and they are starting to slip in some lies, you better start screaming, or in a few years, you will find that you no longer like them. Don't run around with puppy dog eyes and blindingly trust them just because you dislike the current other options.

Sometimes corporations are like little kids. They want to know what they can get away with. If you dont' slap their hands now, next time they might be taking the hundred dollar bill instead of the quarter.

@ PH

@ Thomas Reynolds

Just to be balanced...

Your experience is anecdotal. While you can use it to base your future puchases on, as have I, it's not fact.

I don't buy Epson Printers, Samsung hard drives or Windows PCs because in my experince, they've been shit. That doesn't mean they ARE shit (or any shittier than the competition), it just means that I'm making a statement as a consumer that having wasted money on those brands in the past, they don't deserve a second chance yet. It's not based on fact though, it's just personal experience.

The 'yet' is important. We had a Dyson, and while it was good, it fell apart after 2 years. So we went through a few other makes, and while they didn't fall apart as such, they were shit. in the meantime Dyson brought in a 5 year warranty to entice us back to the brand.

So I may buy Epson/Samsung/Microsoft in the future, but both what I was using would have to be shit, and they'd have to do something to convince me that they'd improved.

@Mac screens AC

Mac forever

One thing I can say that will never change, the proliferation of idiots that will whine and whine, rather than move on. These people can't spell, can't articulate and can't move beyond their petty problems. I made a choice to buy the iMac 24" because commonsense dictated that it would be easier to view, put two pages at one time on the screen, etc. I actually went to a store and compared all the units, not accepted the marketing ads or the specs. After taking a good look at each, playing with them and doing my own research, I made my decision, plus added a 500 GB HD and an extra 1K GB memory chip. Am I happy with my choice? Yes, very much and, oh yes, the restrictions that were noted by another PC loser, just how much time are you spending taking your computer apart, rather than simply using it? I compare this to those that purchase a high-tech cooking range, washer or dryer and never use more than the one cycle and there are millions that do this. When was the last time the "PC" user take their laptop apart? Often, I hope.

In closing, can you run two totally different operating systems at the same time on the same computer? I made several predictions over the years and so far, I've batted a 100. The VCR vs Beta, renting vs buying, Video Record vs DVD, DVD vs other formats and now the Mac vs PC. I don't want to burst your bubble, but the Mac is a PC (personal computer). The Mac was first, then the "PC." A significant portion of the "PC" world has shown itself to be more devious than the Mac users as is confirmed by the fact that most of all the viruses produced are by PC users, not Mac. APRIL FOOLS, just another indication of how this proves my point.

The MAC is the future; without innovation as Mac has show they can do and do well we would still be driving a Model T car. Apple comes out with an advanced phone that works and does more for the average user than any other phone and guess what, the other manufacturers are racing to come out with their own version. Take a look at the patents that Apple is applying for and you will see the future standing still while the Mac morphs into the computer we only dreamed of.

@ Rob

I understand why you would be under the impression that "Macs are for non-technical people who think they are".

I think it's a false impression.

OS-X, I think, is probably better for non-technical people thatn Windows or Linux. They're also good for the technical people that support non-technical users.

The impression that they're also for people "who value form over function", is also a little misguided. I see it more as for people who value form AND function. That is to say, the overall design. Form is not just aesthetics.

I was willing, for example, to put up with a fair bit of weight to get a 17" HD display on my machine. I need it to be portable, but I don't carry it around every day.

Someone who buys a MacBook Air may be buying it not because it's fashionable, but because they've considered the form AND function and, realising that they carry it around all day see that the advantage of the form far outweighs the functional need for, say, an optical drive, or a media card reader.

Another misguided iFool

'The MAC is the future; without innovation as Mac has show they can do and do well we would still be driving a Model T car. Apple comes out with an advanced phone that works and does more for the average user than any other phone and guess what, the other manufacturers are racing to come out with their own version. Take a look at the patents that Apple is applying for and you will see the future standing still while the Mac morphs into the computer we only dreamed of.'

OK, just to pull this apart a bit

The MAC is the future - how many years old and what % market share?

without innovation as Mac has show they can do and do well we would still be driving a Model T car - what innovation would that be - the ability to make crap look shiny? The iPod? I think you will find they stole an awful lot from creative and ended up paying 100mil to say sorry. Please name for me the last thing that Apple did that was truly innovative

Apple comes out with an advanced phone that works and does more for the average user than any other phone

Advanced how? it's missing a shedload of features that others have had for 5+ years - and that 'innovative' interface? Check out fingerworks - I think you will find it is them who did all the legwork, Apple merely bought them when they had developed enough to be interesting. Doing exactly the same thing that you no doubt slag MS for when they do the same thing - but it's OK when it's Apple right?

Take a look at the patents that Apple is applying for and you will see the future standing still while the Mac morphs into the computer we only dreamed of

Most of the patents they are applying for a crap with prior art invalidating them They even tried to patent an extra-wide mouse touchpad. How can you patent something merely because you have made it bigger? That ever so nice patent of theirs showing a macbook docking into the monitor - already been done. Who says these patents will actually make it into products? More likely only a couple will, the rest will sit there until somebody else makes a product that slightly infringes it, then they will jump on that company like patent trolls.

Of course, I went to the proverbial horse's mouth too, but unfortunately, the so-called "tech specs" on Apple.com aren't very technical and are rather vague. It seems to be more of the same behavior I've seen from them, such as misleading their loyal customers back in 2000 or so about the Mac platform's performance relative to the Wintel platform. The only problem was that the benchmark they were using compared a year-old Pentium-series processor to the brand new PowerPC processor. There was a much newer iteration of the Pentium at the time, which ran on a faster frontside bus, but they chose to intentionally mislead their customers, most of whom appear to have lost the ability to question and verify the claims. This revelation was much to the chagrin of my friend who worked for an Apple-authorized service center, who smugly directed me to Apple's website where that claim of superior performance was being made. Not only did being directed to read the facts for himself (and seeing that I was correct...it was all there on Apple's site in the fine print) sting, but I think the realization that Apple had basically lied to the faithful stung even more.

Crap

@ Mac forever

Apple is the great innovator? The ones that will innovate so much that we will see "the future standing still"?

Sorry I must have just dreamed the whole thing about how a Xerox PARC team invented the mouse and the GUI desktop which Apple bought off of them.

Or the bit about how their "advanced phone that works and does more for the average user than any other phone" offers fairly similar features to my Palm T|X (which has been on the market since 2005) and is (yet again) based on an interface purchased from another company.

Oooh, how about the way Macs used to be so ultra-proprietary in every way that it's pretty much impossible to recover data from the special Mac-format disks without very specific kit.

Maybe it was the way they were so innovative and unique in combining the monitor and CPU into a single unit...oh, wait Amiga and Atari and a bunch of other early PC makers did those too, and did them earlier.

And what is this about Macs being PCs? Personal computers they might be but PCs they aren't, well the new Intel chip ones are in a way, before the changeover no Mac was a PC since PCs were x86 architecture computers based on the design of the IBM PC (which gave them the original name of "PC Compatibles").

It is 24 bit colour.

As is pointed out above, the impression of millions of colours on any monitor is created by dithering in some form or other; they only have monochromatic red, green and blue dots which are mixed to deliver the perceived colours. With FRC (time dithering), 6 bit monitors can also deliver 8 bits worth of shades. So the difference here is subtle, but 24 bit colour is what is sent to the screen, and to an external monitor if you connect one.

Apple's lowest price Mac has always been lower in spec. and often not such good value at the retail price as higher spec models. But this enables Apple to offer fantastic deals to education when required, with large apparent discounts. That's business in the face of politics and naive educational buying. Most manufacturers use 6 bit panels on their lowest spec machines.

Complimenti, ragazzi e ragazze!

Another 'I've worked in IT fifteen years' one...

....who has endless problems with their PC. A point I have raised before. Project managers work in IT, but I wouldn't trust one to plug a mouse into the right socket, never mind maintain a Windows box!

"Well, I have over 15 years experience in IT and for what its worth...

Lost too much of my life trying to keep PC's working, SickNote (my last PC) takes 15 minutes to actually become productive, and is not a wimpy machine."

Your hard drive/s are probably either heavily fragmented, mixed in with lots of startup programs, your hard drives have lots of bad sectors, the registry is getting knackered or a mixture of all four.

I would suggest an overnight defrag, then select all the tickboxes in the Disk Check section on the disk properties, reboot it before you go to bed and let it churn away.

Then get a hold of Microsoft BootVis, do a boot trace, it will time your bootup including driver delays and disk activity. Once you have done that, optimise it, then retrace the boot sector and see the improvement - it can make an *astounding* difference on a machine that has been in use for a while.

And if it's still a bit slow, then get a decent registry cleaner.

Then there is the option of a full reformat/rebuild if that doesn't help. Beyond that, you are probably looking at physical disk problems [replace them] or a mobo/memory problem [replace them]

Of course, you shouldn't have to do any of that! ;-)

"Linux too geeky even for me, most of the LinuxHeads I know are getting excited over the latest wongo driver/program/application, sad!!"

Meh, I use Linux, not because my Windows box is as shagged as your one [for being four years old and with a few little tweeks to the hardware it's still grunty enough to run FEAR at a respectable lick and multitask amiably] but because like you, I got bored of the odd little "twinges" that XP boxes get from time to time when all I wanted to do was wank and bank. That, and the fact that I have an old laptop here that runs Ubuntu better than it runs XP - even with all the shiny graphical effects switched on. Ubuntu doesn't like my desktop graphic card tho. But then Ububtu doesn't like my current favourite waste of time, rFactor [top racing game if anyone is interested], either - so XP stays. It has it's uses.

"Macs, start up fast, allow me to do my development tasks, dont crash/freeze that often (and its usually me who caused it!!)"

And that's of use to you - and who am I to argue? I've been playing with Mac OS X 10.5.1/2/whatever the latest one is and I must admit, it's quite nice, but not as intuitive as I expected it to be after all the hype of OS X being the Next Big Thing in OSs. Maybe too long in the M$ world, perhaps. Still, it's shiny, quiet, and runs multiple apps without a hitch.

I fancy getting a bit more OS X experience under my belt [I expect my experience in Linux-land shell stuff won't hurt] but the more I diversify my desktop environs at work and at home, the less I give a stuff about [insert OS here] and the more I care about what I can I do with it, how much control and customisation I get with it [after all, it is mine, innit?] and how much it pisses me off - which they all do, to a degree.

For the moment, Ubuntu wins overall, XP second, and OS X is somewhere in the outfield till I get a proper look at it.

Oh, and finally:

"(And they are shiny too!!)"

Amen to that mah bruthah - I'm looking at one of those Shuttle-esque MiniITX aluminium jobs to wang a core2duo in with a MythTV media centre job at some point. Slightly tricker than buying a Mac Mini - but then, I'm a desktop/hardware tech - I love this shit, heresy thought it is to admit it these days....!

In short, I disagree with your anti-windows comments to a degree, but overall, i think we are in the same boat in a roundabout sort of way. We get what we want from our OS's.

However, the 6-bit shit from Mac The Hardware Vendor - now that's just a cheap shot. A fine example of when public image and private habits mix [see Max Mosley - what a guy! and Creative's adhoc, user distributed Vista drivers...] - Glock, meet toe...

re: App£e

@Everyone reading the comments guide to composing comments on el reg.

It really does make interesting reading these days, the comments section of the register. I think their should be a guide for those people unsure how to wade into an el reg comments OS/hardware war:

When writing inflammatory comments about "the enemy" do not forget to use linux as an argument for your own side. For example:

"windows is shit, get a mac and if you don't like the OS just put linux on it, simple" or

"macs are shit, get a cheap box with windows and if you don't like the OS just put linux on it, simple"

Also remember that by appending "..., simple" to the end of a remark you are demoralising "the enemy" by making them feel as though they are thick and/or as though you are more wise thus giving your argument more weight.

Spelling is also important, take the following sentence by Mectron

"The thrue comes out of the bag... Mindless Drone Mac users finally confronted with reality: Mac is pure crap,"

By spelling badly you give "the enemy" a false ammunition, so when they inevitably counter with "...and lern to spel you 12 year old thick sh*t..."

even though their age guess is likely to be right they do not need to know that and you can counter their counter with "before you write a comment like that learn to spell yourself. Also is that all you can say to beat me 'learn to spell?"

Usually your initial witty inflammatory comments (and all proceeding witty counter attacks) should finish with a witty but badly spelt put down such as:

"Why Here? because she have the IQ of a typical Mac user." - also by Mectron

making good use of the new comment images. Or even a more heartfelt I-know-better-than-you line:

"The MAC is the future; without innovation as Mac has show they can do and do well we would still be driving a Model T car." - by someone above but I cant remember the name.

But also remember that as you start to grow older and wiser you need to take reality checks. Because people like Vernon Lloyd who say:

"Remember: 'A Computer is a tool for a purpose, whereas a fanboys purpose is to drool over the tool, is blinkered by the tool and cannot see the beauty of other tools'

They are all the same, some do some jobs better than the others. Simple and to the point."

Can't be right, they are admiting "the enemy" is OK, they must be ignored...

Disclaimer: All of the above post was submitted in jest, but any resemblance of examples to actual posts is purely... coincidental...

And my moral standings lie with Vernon Lloyd, NOONE GIVES A FUCK WHAT YOU THINK WE SHOULD USE. - note the capitals to make my opinion look louder, and the use of "noone gives a..." implying that there are lots of people who take my view and I must be right...

I have never heard of

An MS monitor I had a Microsoft mouse once but I liked my Logitech better. The point I am trying to make is look to hardware sellers to make price quality comparisons not everything is software. That icon is Steve Jobs BTW for anyone using a cheap monitor.

corrections

First: unless your images were taken with an extremely expensive tripple CCD camera supporting true 24 bit color, than even a 6 bit (technically 18 bit) color monitor can display every color and more your camera can represent.

Second: Apple's prices are not inflated. Go to Dell.com, try to build a comperable system to either an iMac, Mac Pro, Macbook, or Macbook Pro. You can't do it, the Dell systems are ALL more expensive. (if you leave out the webcam you can build a macbook clone that's $30 cheaper than Apple, but since Dell doesn't offer 13" system with dedicated video, you have to get a 14" which is bigger and weighs more than a pound more). You CAN build a cheaper Dell than a mini, but then it's also not 10" square... the Mac Pro ($2700) equiovolent from Dell, $4000...

Third, sicne dithering is done at 70Hz, and the human eye only sees at about 30, dithering 6 bit color can actually produce 100X more colors than the eye and brain are capable of seeing. (about 68 billion colors) Only in rare cases with specifically designed images can the difference be seen.

Fourth: Placing a dell screen side by side with any other, iMac or not, is not a fair comparison. The Dell screen you have likely has a much deeper black as most stand alone monitors do, and also will have a diferent pre-set contract rating. If you want a good screen, add a Cinema display beside your iMac, or get any one of a number from Acer, LG, or Samsung that use the 6ms display panels. They'll all outshine the Dell screen. On a side note, the Apple display is made by the same people that supply most of Dell's own monitor panels... I happen to have 3 Acer 19" monitors on my desk. All the of them show colors slightly different even though they're all the same model and all have the same software configuration. It took me hours of using the OSD controls to even get them close to each other... I have 2 Westinghouse (panels made by samsung) professional series 22" screens, and they are perfectly identical. The Westinghouse screens were designed for editing, the Acer not.

fifth: no real people expect you to do professional editing on an iMac. If you have a $2000 digital SRL or $400 hansol digital camera, a copy of Photoshop, and plan on taking high res 24 bit images, then realistically your looking at a system comperable to a Mac Pro, and you'll want a 24 or 30" display anyway. If you're editing the pics from your 8MP Sony camera, it's only a "simulated" 24 bit image, taken by snapping 3 quick images in succession on the same CCD panel, thereby being a DITHERED image in the first place, and with even lower accuracy than a 6 bit display (18 bit native color)

Six: The screen type used in the 24" mac is no longer available in 20" models. there was one choice; use a TN 20" instead of the ISP used in the 24", or go even further below to a TFT, which although techniocally has better color accuracy, but has visible range limits, requires more power, and is actually 2 screens glued together (and you can usually see the line halfway through and using metering devices tell a color difference between the top and bottom screens on most TFT displays). They're still displaying millions of colors. your eye can't tell it's being dithered.

Seven: Every single one of you posting in this column are either using TFT or TN screens, unless you happen to have a shiny new 23" plus screen that is true 8 bit (like a cinema diaplay from Apple) and connected using digital cables directly to a DVI or HDMI port.

eight: Apple does disclose in the white papers the specific details of the 20" and 24" screen. Just because the chose NOT to include this fairly irrelevent piece of information in the summary page on Apple.com for the general iMac itself does NOT mean they did not disclose this difference.

last: This lawsuit was filed by lawyers, not a complaining user or purchaser. therefore, this is nothing more than a troll lawsuit.

'extra 1K GB memory chip'

Who gives a Rats arse?

Frankly. If.... IF.... Apple have printed something that just isn't so in their adverts (IE claimed "Millions" when it's "Thousands"), then the purchasers have been misled and deserve their money back. For something as subjective as whether the colours look "Flat" to you - you probably should have "tried before your buyed". At the end of the day, the monitor is still plenty good enough for surfing the net, watching videos etc etc. Which is what the Mac was sold to do.

I know they've been the darlings of people who need accurate colour for some time, but maybe Apple feel they're better off building a machine at a price that suits the mass-market, rather than building an expensive machine to suit one minority?

I know it sucks a fat one, but Apple are changing and moving from provider of specialist computers to a few minority markets to purveyor of mass-market technology to all-and-sundry, and their product focus has shifted to reflect this change in targetted demographic. I'm not sure it will work, to be honest. I think the Wintel PC may have too big a stranglehold. But, if it doesn't, at least they'll have iPod revenue to keep them going (unless they fuck that up, too..)