The Canon EOS R isn't a mirrorless 5D IV, but it's a start

What you need to know about the Canon EOS R

Canon's much-anticipated, long-rumored and at this point very leaked full-frame mirrorless camera is finally here. The Canon EOS R debuts a brand new 'RF' mount and a 30MP CMOS sensor, with Dual Pixel CMOS autofocus and 4K video.

Despite Canon's claims that the EOS R is 'the internals of an EOS 5D IV in a smaller body', the EOS R is not exactly the mirrorless EOS 5D IV that a lot of people were predicting (and hoping for) but it's not the mirrorless Rebel that some cynics were predicting, either. If anything, it's more like a slightly evolved mirrorless 6D II and - spiritually at least - it appears to have a lot in common with a much, much older camera.

With the dust only just settling after the recent launch of Nikon's Z7, what should you take away from Canon's latest ILC? Click through this article for some initial thoughts, and a closer look at the EOS R's key features.

Comments

Regarding the incompatibility of the EF-M lenses "..essentially closing off the much vaunted APS-C to full-frame 'upgrade path' for Canon's mirrorless customers". But this is what we have at the moment anyway, EF-S lenses can not be used on the EF mount.

“If you, or anyone you know has been affected by the inclusion of a single card slot in a digital camera, we want to hear from you. Asking for help is the first step.”

I had to laugh out loud when reading this.

On a bleaker note: it is scary how a product can be trashed and talked down by copy-cat mindless outrage of people who never even have touched the product and probably never will make use of two card slots.

I suppose it really is all down to personal experience. I've never had any card fail on me during 16 years of digital shooting, and even using the same card in different cameras. However, by using only the top brands I may have simply avoided the risk. Or have I been just lucky? But I can understand that one's perspective could change if you have had a card failure.

How many are professional and how many of you have a dual slot camera?

The whole card thing starts to sound a lot like whining. Like the authors said, it is almost like people are personally hurt by it and that’s ridiculous. If it is that important to you, just buy a camera with two slots. It is not like you don’t have a choice.

The is no reason why it shouldn't. USB is USB, so there will be compatibility. But then there are pretty good and rather bad powerbanks. One of mine charges my phone slower than it uses its battery, the other one is faster than the wall plug.

I think the idea that R-mount lenses could be adapted to E-mount is fanciful given that there's only 2mm to play with and the former has a much wider throat. 2mm is almost certainly not enough for the bayonet mount, let alone anything else.

The DSLR to mirrorless adapter route is a one-off. We are not going to have mirrorless to mirrorless mount adapters any more than DSLR to DSLR mount adapters.

Of course, Sigma and the like will be able toi offer what is essentially the same lens on E, R & Z mount with a swap to the lens base and protocols. That's once they've reverse-engineered what Nikon and Canon have done which might be far from easy (especially if the protocol has been encrypted).

2mm is not much to play with, so that sounds about right. I wonder if they have tried to make the mount harder to reverse engineer. The adapters suggest maybe not that hard but who knows what's inside the adapters.

I've no doubt that when EF lenses are mounted the camera drives them using native EF lens protocols. It's what I'd do - put the logic in the camera, rather than translate EF to EF-R within the adapter.

When a native EF-R lens is mounted, then the camera would use EF-R protocols which might, or might not, be similar to those for EF lenses.

It's very different to what Metabones adaptors have to do when mounting EF lenses on Sony E-Mount. The adapter has to do a lot more work in terms of protocol conversions as the Sony A-mount cameras will not have native EF protocol support. Of course, Sony could implement that feature, but they've deliberately left that to adapter manufactures as, no doubt, Canon would have seen Sony producing EF-mount adapters with camera protocol support as a declaration of war.

And which transmitter would that be? I would like to look that up to see if it really is the case.

As for the ordinary light from sony... kind of defeats the purpose. Which is to also be discrete. Reminds me of when I first used the built in flash of the canon, where it triggers various times to help with focusing before using the flash for exposure. I can tell you it was a great way to get a crappy photo, since you pretty much blind your subject. It also has the effect of causing your subject's pupils to close up, which is not particularly flattering.

I'll give credit where credit is due. I think the Canon colors, especially skin tones, are most pleasing. Other than that, everything is underwhelming vs. the competition. I left 6 years ago and haven't seen anything to win me back.

Come on man, sometimes the Canon apologist stuff is just over the top. Canon had years to develop a FF mirrorless system and this is the best they can do? A decent battery and not forcing customers to pay for Clog is hardly groundbreaking when the competition already offers the same. I can get over two full hours of video or a couple thousand stills on a Sony Z battery. The GH5 has a battery that seems to last forever. The Zed 6 has superior video specs without that ridiculous crop, and I'm sure RS will be better with the Nikon.

Same for the dismal spec of the camera as a whole. DPAF is awesome, I'll give you that. Unless you want to fire off a burst, then not so much. The lenses look good, unless you actually have to pay for something other than the 24-105 or 35. I seriously don't get why you guys don't hold their feet to the fire more for such an underwhelming offering.

Who this camera is aimed at? At least Nikon brought something new to the table that would make sense adding one to a DSLR kit. Everyone has to start somewhere, but it offers nothing over a 5d4 beyond a EVF since you're going to adapt lenses anyway. And then there's the fact that EOS-m users are left out in the cold since Canon was so shortsighted to not design a mount for APS-c and FF.

Its the perfect storm of Canon lagging behind others on the sensor, processing and tech side - combined with capping specs and capabilities to not step on the cinema line or the DSLR's. Look at what Fuji just brought, a 4k60p 10-bit camera that hits 30fps with its electronic shutter - from a company that doesn't even sell 10% of what Canon does and relies on a Polaroid knockoff to keep its imaging business afloat.

Mirrorless will soon eclipse DSLR's as the majority of ILC's being sold, 10 years of mirrorless and 5 years since the a7's debuted and Canon brings, meh...

I think for the price the only "disappointment" is the missing IBIS (didn't really believe it would be coming anyway) and perhaps the 4k crop. But we get a cheap EF adapter option, great EVF, 90% AF coverage, shutter closes when lens unmounted (wow, no dust), 5D4 sensor (plenty good enough), same battery type as all EOS, flippy large highres screen, Innovative tough selector button thingy etc.

I think it's a great camera for the price. Maybe not a market leading feature monster but solid performance and I can use all my fine Sigma Art and Canon L glass with it. Finally no MFA anymore...

MFA? Whats that?Dont forget it has 3 fps in continious autofokus with tracking.Also dont forget that it currently does not have a full electronic shutter.. All saying that Canon is market leader for Cameras in general, one would expect much more from them...

Canon Promised to not care about canibalising sales of DSLRs. In a way i recognize its true, a 5d IV sensor for 2300$ or so.. yeah, but thats about the only fact. In alot of other ways the R is even worse than 5D IV.. so its really debateable wether canon even delivered on its promise.

Let's face it, this camera was built with the only purpose to re-energize the dwindling yet cash-leaden north american ff DSLR market. In fact, there is little evidence that any significant number of ff dslr are being sold anywhere else in the world besides US & Canada. The trouble with approaching enthusiast market is that exceptional products are needed to capture the imagination and the wallets. This is a total fail.Canon would have been better off shelving this idea.

There are a lot of people in US; it's a big country. But the rest is probably true. The time and effort it takes to please enthusiasts may not be worth it. You can sell Rebels all day long and no one complains that they can't underexpose 5 stops and still pull up the shadows. Better to focus on lenses and let the others battle it out for the camera with the highest DxO number.

That was good point about the DxO. It made me reflect on the fact that the battle of the DxO numbers is over. I haven't had a need to look at DxO numbers since the a7rii came out, and neither have many other enthusiasts/pros I know. After about a decade behind canon has achieved a sensor with about the same scaled performance in full frame as a sony a6000. A pyrrhic victory considering they still cannot manage to produce a camera with what is still a crappy sensor and price it below $2k.

You know, for DPR's house style, this is a *very* critical "need-to-know." Most need-to-knows here are little more than a restatement of the spec sheet. The staff are trying to be polite, but they have some serious reservations about this camera and what it represents.

"the overall method for selecting your AF point or subject: you'll have to drag your thumb around the touchscreen"You don't need to drag. I had the Canon M6 and there were no issues with selecting the AF area.

Though I never dragged. I always just touched the area that I wanted to choose as far as I remember. I only remember that animations of the user interface of the M6 were a bit laggy like swiping for choosing the white balance.

with eye to viewfinder dragging is easier. it is an option in menu, relative or absolute position. The R can prob use the D pad too if the screen is laggy. Thk joystick would have been very popular among users who move af point all the time (me), less fiddly and much quicker.

In the context of the EOS 650 the new model does start to make a bit more sense I admit. As a test frame to introduce the mount, the AF system, and the new body and control layouts, it is designed to work to a median level of performance without striving to excel at anything in particular. More targeted models will come later.

The thing is though EOS was quite revolutionary when it came out, it really changed the camera industry. Canon's FF mirrorless doesn't really bring anything new to table, they are just putting out a competitive alternative to systems already sold by Sony and soon Nikon.

Still, look at how the EF-M system went from ridicule to leading the APSC mirrorless market in about 3 years. It would be unwise to underestimate them.

But on the camera side, aside from the all-electronic mount, the Canon EF system didn't bring much that was really 'new' to the table, even in 1987. Importantly though, being a bigger and more diversified company, Canon was better able to double-down on the development of the camera and lens lineup than Minolta. Canon's EF lenses, especially the constant wide aperture zooms (and stunt lenses like the 50mm F0.95) really shook things up, and the fully-electronic mount was more future-proof.

Also (I just learned) Minolta got sued for a load of money by Exxon, which probably didn't help.

Barney, yes Minolta was revolutionary with autofocus however it was Canon who was revolutionary with the electronic mount (as stated), who's autofocus speed and accuracy were revolutionary via USM (people didn't see the need to get autofocus initially until Canon swayed them), and Canon was revolutionary with regards to ergonomics (setting aperture via the body and using control wheels). My thoughts, like Richard's, were the R is equivant to a EOS 650.

Yes, Canon learned from their late T models and realized the Electronic Optical System (EOS) is the way to go to introduce the total electronic mount (and large diameter) and ring/USM motors for swift/silent autofocusing that set the standard of what would be coming next - everything today in photography has not really developed much beyond that except change from film to digital that eliminate the motion of transporting film and further rely on the digital sensor to remove the motion of reflex mirror so the camera system can be built with higher integration but the heart of modern photography technology is still electronic optical system and Canon deserves the credit, still. The EOS-R is just an introduction model that the coming pro-model will be more of the true showcase, I use Nikon, SONY and Canon and somehow feel Canon will still be the leading one in near future. Hope their sensor technology will pace up soon.

Agreed Khun. It was the EOS 1 which ushered in EOS acceptance with pros after the EOS 650 launch. Looking at the R the interface for most used functions seem like a leap forward.

Wasn't going to get one since it lacks IBIS however might (depending of reviews) get one just so I can adapt to the interface options, like the integration of EOS lenses, and the fact I've been waiting for years for a mirrorless full frame.

It's 2018 and there are too many voices (mostly noises) over the free internet and each camera viewer has individual agenda (to appeal as many subscribers as possible whatever it takes) so true voices eventually settles, and noises disappeared, I don't care those at all. Leica M has the smallest mount at the moment yet there quality is praised all over - and at the same time perhaps the least ergonomic camera body with static screen - but we can forgive and praise it as classics, yes, its manual focus, but if Leica wanted, M lenses can be AF without changing mount, just add electronic contacts. Leica TL is actually very good and from my own experience has the most accurate AF in the market although not the quickest, but it never missed, but seldom talked about. The three giant each has different design/engineering criteria which resulted different cameras that is a good news to the industry and the users.

I am sure many here are much younger than me and so have no way to appreciate how disruptive the EOS 1 was. The 650 and 620 were interesting and ushered in all the new mount and electronics that Canon could refine later for the professional market. I think Dpreview is smart to compare the EOS R to the EOS 650. To many the R is a "meh" release, but Canon has a history of releasing entry-level to midrange products first to satisfy the mass market, in advance of releasing truly groundbreaking professional flagships. While the compromises and omissions that Canon chooses to apply to their first forays in a new series may annoy enthusiasts and professionals, the EOS R is not intended for them. It's almost as if they leave out specific features that will be perfected in their high end product so that the market is hungry for them.

Ento, no worries about the fine print right now, all the details will emerge in due time.At this stage of the game the general philosophy and place of the camera in the market is of importance. There is a huge missed opportunity for canon, yet again.

"If custom modes are there, and can be set and recalled as quickly as with a DSLR, then all is well", but... this is a pretty big IF!

There is a quite a danger that with PASM dial missing entirely (and it was routinely used to host also C1-C3 user defined modes accessible immediately) the R might make C1-C3 accessible ONLY through a maze od menus and lots of TS-tapping :(

C1-C3 are easily accessed. Press the Mode Button, then touch the screen and choose whatever Shooting Mode you want. Arguably quicker than turning a dial, depending on whether you are comfortable with a touch screen.

personally not comfortable at all with TS poking, much prefer an old fashioned direct controls (dials, buttons & knobs). Here is what they say in the US Canon site on-line help materials - seems more complex. Moreover, with the control dial the curreent mode is IMMEDIATELY obvious at a glance, even with the power OFF:

"SHOOTING MODES - To access the shooting modes (and begin the setup process), press the MODE button, and then touch the INFO button or screen, then select the video MODE by either the Quick Control dial, the MAIN dial, cross-keys, or simply touch the multi-angle, adjustable LCD screen".

The top deck LCD panel provides information on shooting mode even when the camera is powered down. And Canon' s detail on how to set Shooting Modes confirms what I said: the simplest C1-C3 access is to press the Mode button, then the screen, then the mode of choice.

I hate the one in my Sony A7R3 because the locking mechanism. Extra step and depending on how you are holding the camera, it can be akward to reach and push. I wish it was always free like the one in my A6000.

Does the mode button on the R cycle through the modes in one direction or is it a hold down and turn a dial one? The Nikons are the latter, which I don't mind - in fact, I prefer this to a locking mode dial, which can sometimes be awkward. I'm not a fan of cycling through options in one direction however, because when doing this quickly it's easy to 'overshoot' the setting you want and have to cycle through again.

In relation to the back control dial, the classic EOS dial works ok on bigger cameras, but wouldn't work well on this size of camera as it would take too much of a hand movement to get your thumb in place while shooting. Moving it to the top plate was a good call. The two buttons on the thumb grip shoulder look quite awkwardly placed however.

I'm never really sure why so much fuss is made about startup times. I tend to switch my DSLRs on as soon as I extract them from the bag, and leave them on all day long. Perhaps with battery-hungry mirrorless cameras people turn them on and off periodically to reduce consumption, but surely by the time a camera is raised to the eye, even the slowest of cameras is ready to operate?

despite there being more than 1\2 sec difference i see your point ... and as a mirrorless user , i dont keep it on all day in training my reCTION TIME WITH A CELLPHONE APP,, the best i can do is is 240\ 250 milliseconds,about a quarter sec .. by the time you get the camera to your eye .... eh, lolbut leavin it on?thats just wasting energy lol ... mirrorless users cant leave the windows open with the ac on like you dslr guys[and gals]

Cosinaphile - then mirrorless is a no go for me. My DSLRs are left switched on for 6-8 hours a day, and will shoot 1000+ images without draining the battery - and that is when stalking animals with a 100-400mm, or stalking insects with a 100mm macro, and those are lenses that use a lot of energy racking the focus back and forth. I always carry a spare battery, but it's only extremely rarely that I have to change it mid-shoot.

Yes I could fit a battery grip with 2 batteries, but even then the R would only take half as many shots as a DSLR before both batteries needed replacing. I know and want to take advantage of things like silent shutter that mirrorless offers, and really hoped this camera was going to be better. It's a good start, but even for a (overpriced) camera aimed at prosumers, it is no match for a run-of-the-mill DSLR.

Why do you turn your EVIL/mirrorless camera off when it is out the bag? I leave my camera on if it is out of the bag. High quality 3rd party spare is $10 a piece and if you are already carrying 1+kg of gears what difference does a couple 40g batteries make?

This is one of the reasons why, contrary to the popular sentiment, DSLRs are far from dead. Not having to worry about battery usage, switching the camera on and off, or waiting for it to start up, are a pretty major benefit.

David - Battery usage depends entirely on how a person uses a camera. Someone who shoots in periodic bursts will use far less juice than someone who has their finger half-pressed on the button for long periods waiting for the "decisive moment".

Someone who chimps every photo and reviews all his/her shots on the screen after each session will use far more juice than someone who doesn't.

The only fair way to compare consumption is to use the standardised CIPA test. It won't provide an accurate figure but it serves as a good comparison between cameras.

Generally speaking a DSLR battery will last at least 2 or 3 times as long as a mirrorless battery, but the a9 does reportedly have a lower rate of consumption than other mirrorless models. The Canon R appears to be one of the worst offenders.

Peiasdf - 3rd part spare batteries are a bad investment - they tend in my experience to only last a few months, whereas genuine OEM batteries will last for 5 or more years, so the extra cost is worth paying.

Spare batteries are easy enough to carry but that isn't the issue. The issue is that if you shoot profusely, you are quite likely to have to swap batteries in the middle of a shoot, and could lose vital moments when the action is unfolding. Think sports, wildlife, concert, events etc.

Also, at the end of the day, you could find you have 3 or 4 batteries to recharge, which is inconvenient and means you have to carry several chargers if you need to recharge your batteries in a short period of time. This can be a big issue if e.g. you only have access to a generator for recharging in a remote situation.

Photosen, what do you mean by inability to change focus points in the viewfinder? As I understand it, you can change them either using the touch screen or the 4-way pad with your eye to the viewfinder. Can't comment on how good it is, but you can do it.

I think it's a smart move by Canon. It's probably not a Sony or Nikon killer but Canon wants to push it out of the door to hold back the people who are about thinking jumping ship. It's the first generation so Canon makes sure the camera works reliably rather than squeezing so many features and they come back with bugs and complaints.

I understand that. But at the same time, I wonder if the people that haven't changed wouldn't wait a little longer. And if with a weak camera, this didn't push some users to sony after seeing what canon had to offer.

People who own Nikon DSLRs will most likely buy Nikon Z system, and people who own Canon DSLRs will most likely buy Canon R system. People who own Sony will probably stay with Sony. People coming from other brands are likely to consider all 3.

The number of people who jump ship to another brand is very small, but highly exaggerated on dpr forums due to fanboyism.

entoman I'm not sure I totally agree with you on this specific case. When I switched from canon to sony, I had a look at what I would get for my money. With a metabones and not 100% native AF I was still getting more for my money with sony than with a canon DSLR. Right now, even with the new mirrorless, I think it's not hard to look at sony with a mc11 and see it as a better investment if you're not shooting sports. And if you're shooting sports, the EOSR isn't the right camera anyways.

What I disagree with is that this just 'ok' mirrorless release kind of cements the slow pace that Canon travels at. Meanwhile, people expect the next generation of Sony to crush it even more. So I would say this release does not do very much for Canon in the area of customer retention or gaining new customers.

As a 5D MKIII owner who uses a GH5 for video, I would love for Canon to step it up but as shown by this release, it is not going to happen. Obviously they do not care to push for this market. Which is why I have soured on Canon. I try 110% in my business and it seems like they are always going at 70%.

PAntunes - Certainly there are some people who transition from Canon to Sony, typically retaining their Canon lenses and using a Metabones. Sometimes the Sony body is additional to the Canon DSLRs, and sometimes people make a complete switch, ditching their Canon bodies.

Many of the people who switch to Sony tend to be vociferous on dpr, enthusing about their new camera and trying to convince others to switch. This I believe gives an exaggerated perception of the number of people who actually make the switch. I could of course be wrong, but I think sales figures reflect my opinion.

Bassman - Yes, Canon is a very conservative and slow-moving company and this is incredibly frustrating to Canon users, especially to amateurs who don't want to be left behind in the gear aquisition race.

Pros and more serious amateurs are less concerned and are prepared to wait a little longer because our existing DSLRs are perfectly adequate for the job and we don't feel a need to impress others with our gear.

Having said that, I'll be very glad when Canon introduce a model that truly replaces the 5D4 and 5DS, something equivalent to the Sony a7Riii, with a sensor that is noise-free at ISO6400, and a C-AF burst speed of at least 8fps, and with Canon ergonomics and durability, would be perfect.

My problem is that I do video as well. The GH5 is a wonderful camera for video but I wanted to stay with one system. I chose to stop waiting for Canon and invest in the GH line as I see Panasonic putting energy into improving the product for the consumer, not just the bottom line. Yes, gratefully, the 5DMKIII is still working well for my stills work.

Will always take redundancy over performance. Any pro will.Don't understand why these camera (so advanced and without mirror) don't have an internal memory, WiFi and broadband-just like any smart phone!!!!!!

davemac - Me too. On average I have 2 cards corrupt every year. Novices and less serious amateurs will not be worried about the risk of having a card corrupt. Pros and most serious amateurs know full well that cards do corrupt. Anyone who really values their images would choose a camera with dual slots as insurance.

Gesture - internal memory with enough capacity to equal a high capacity card would add a lot to the price of a camera, If the internal memory corrupted then the camera becomes completely unusable and has to go off for repair. If a card corrupts you just have to put a new card in and you can carry on shooting.

SmilerGrogan - Yes, I format in the cameras. I use 32GB Sandisc SD cards and change cards daily. I shoot about 30,000 images a year per camera. My cameras get bashed and knocked quite a lot due to the environments where I work i.e. tropical rainforests, boulder-strewn mountains, deserts. Yes, I always shoot back-ups to the other slot.

maybe but their Pro line is fairly capable but then it uses specific use sensors not larger 35mm or even aps-c size sensors in 3:2 size.

and of course the Pro line all use multiple DSP processors thus making it possible that both the sensor read out speed AND the inability to process large quantities of pixels to do a full sensor read/process at 120 or even 240 fps impossible.

but the samsung nx-q was able to do a aps-c sensor AND perform H.265 compression using a SINGLE DSP, and great video, so ?????

so now the question is how bad or good will the panning ability be ?rolly-polly or nice solid pan rates for video @ 30 or 60 fps ?

Yes, this isn't a mirrorless 5D but that is expected. This is the base model. Effectively a de-tuned model. They have given themselves plenty to room for many upgrades to drip feed the punters. Car manufacturers do this all the time. Going all out first up is a risky strategy. It risks too many teething troubles which generates a reputation of unreliability, the kiss of death for a new product.

You misunderstand what I mean by detuned. What I mean is, this system has a long way to go, decades maybe. They have not yet pushed the boundaries. Just you wait and see. It was meant as a complement not a criticism.

Definitely closer to 6DII than 5D4, but really a new class of camera for them, a tweener. Well DR and noise should be a lot better than the 6DII that basically had identical sensor performance to 2012 5D3.

However it is now clear Canon will never allow ungimped video outside their cine line, I mean all they've done is given us c-log, big deal. Ok 10 4:2:2 over hdmi is but small consolation.

"One interesting first for a mirrorless camera is that the EOS R closes its mechanical shutter when the camera is turned off, perhaps to reduce the risk of dust on the sensor.""The camera also stops its lens down on shut-down"

Nice features, indeed... Both the shutter and lens diaphragm will wear out faster...

When Olympus came out with m4/3, I was sure having the sensor always exposed would be a killer. However, that did not eventuate. Oly's supersonic wave filter system works well. I've never had dust issues with m4/3. Nevertheless, when changing lenses, I would feel happier if I didn't see the exposed sensor.

Shutter actuations when turning a DSLR on to take one shot, then off :- Shutter opens at the beginning of the shot and closes at the end.Total : 1 open cycle and 1 close cycle.

Shutter actuations with turning the EOS-R on to take one shot, then off :- Shutter opens for live view.- Press the shutter release : the shutter closes and opens at the beginning of the shot (when the mechanical first curtain is used). This sequences does not occur with an electronic first curtain.- the shutter closes to end the shot (second mechanical curtain) then opens to go back to live view. This sequence does not occur with a full electronic curtain.- Switch the camera off : the shutter closes.Total : 3 open cycles and 3 close cycles, with a mechanical first curtain.2 open cycles and 2 close cycles, with an electronic first curtain.1 open cycle and 1 close cycle, with a full electronic curtain. I do not know if the EOS-R features a full electronic curtain...

They should've done what Sigma has always done with their interchangeable lens cameras and blocked the exposure of the sensor entirely. On the Sigma cameras the infrared filtration that is applied to the sensor assembly in all other brand ILC cameras is a separate filter just below the exposed mount, so no exposure to dust when changing lenses.

As an added bonus, for those interested in infrared photography, the filter is easily removable to allow the camera to be instantly converted into an infrared camera, whereas with other brand cameras the cameras must be expensively modified.

I realise this and have a serious problem with how often the shutter is actuated on mirrorless cameras, but shutting the shutter whilst the camera is off won't amp up the actuation count to any degree when mirrorless already actuates the shutter way more often.

As an amateur, and before focus-by-wire lenses exist, I very often put and eye at my DSLR OVF, camera powered off, and I zoomed, focused and framed to just to see if a picture was worth to be be taken. Today, with STM lenses, or with an MILC, I am obliged to turn the camera on to see something sharp through the OVF or just to see something through the EVF. So, no only I often turn the camera on or off to take just one picture, but I also turn the camera on and off...to take nothing !But I am aware that such a situation may rarely happen to a pro.

Phildunn,In a similar manner, the new Canon EF-S 18-55mm F4.0-5.6 IS STM, available as a kit lens with the EOS 200D, has a piece of flat glass at the rear that seals the lens. I have some M4/3 lenses that have a fixed rear glass element that seals the lens, but this glass is convex and has an optical role.

@raoulj The only way such a thin adapter is possible is if the bayonet part of the lens, which is a few millimeters long, is allowed to sink into the cavity inside the mount aperture. RF mount lenses will definitely not fit inside E mount aperture, and I doubt the 1mm larger diameter of the Z mount will allow such an arrangement to happen either.

Incidentally, once you make yourself open to that kind of a possibility, it is theoretically possible to contemplate an E to RF adapter by letting the thinner E mount sink into the RF mount aperture. Or, for that matter, EF-M to RF adapter. (Not having the actual objects in my hand, I’m just playing with numbers here and am prepared to be shown to be wrong.)

You're probably right. I was having the same idea about mouting EF lenses to EOS-M.Since the M mount is smaller, it won't fit. But this is if you have Elena of the lens inside the mount. So maybe having an RF lens on a Ninon Z mount is possiblé. 4mm more flame distance and 2mm wider mount? Unlikely though.

With Canon it’s always wait. It took Canon 9 years to adopt TTL flash, Olympus was first in 1978 and Canon was last in 1987. Canon are last into the mirrorless market and we get features that have been implemented by others around five years previously. I’ve been wanting a 4K hybrid camera from Canon for years. The 5d IV had the crippled codec and crop. The less said about the 6 d II the better. Then they release the R and it’s wait until 2020 when Canon will get their act together. Meanwhile other manufacturers have said by the 2020 Olympics they will have 8K. It’s time to jump ship. Whether people like it or not digital photographic equipment is now firmly in the realm of consumer electronics and it is Sony and Panasonic that are driving technologies. The old camera companies will die if they can’t adapt, and seeing this half baked product from Canon confirms it.

Canon EOS R = placeholder. A holding action while Canon gets their bearings in the FF ML market. New R lenses represent the potential. Canon faithful butt checks clench as they see the prices of said potential.

Canon had years to come up this placeholder. This is the BEST that the worlds largest camera company could come up with??? Remember poor little Sony only has a 13% market share vs mighty Canons 50% share (or Nikons ever declining 22% share)...

IMHO what Canon should try to do is move people to the new system as fast as possible to lock them into the Canon RF lens system...keeping people from buying Sony bodies to use with their Canon lenses. (Where they eventually would buy Sony lenses.)

Make additional compelling RF lenses.

They would make their profit by selling a lot of these new lenses for the mirrorless cameras.

To accomplish that they should have made two models as Nikon did. A hi res 50+MP model to replace the 5DR/S. The lower res one should have been as advanced as the A9 at under $2000... to keep Canon sports shooters from buying the A9 or others from the A7RIII.

They should price these aggressively... even at a loss on the bodies. And have great deals on purchases of a body with one or more new lenses and EF lens adapters.

Drop all the DSLR models because these would be cheaper and would outperform them.

Unfortunately, Canon may not be capable of making such cameras so this idea may be moot.

As an EF lens user who has been waiting patiently for a Canon FF ML body for ten years from “conservative Canon” I looked at this new release with some mild interest as one would of anything “too little too late” thinking that “one might buy one of these gadgets and find Canon has a superior model for you in just twelve months down the track” ... then I saw the fully articulated lcd screen and said “forget it .... “

Drop-in filters were never a great, nor popular, idea. Large & long lenses had them, I for one had drop-ins decades ago in my Zuiko 350 f/2.8 and Tamron 500 f/8 cat, and only used them once (on the Tamron).

They are a pain to deal with and a likely cause of dust spotting when you *do* use it.

Canikon will only catch up if Sony will do exactly nothing and that will very likely won't happen. The only chance Canikon has is to offer more affordable and good enough lenses. This is where they have expertise only but cameras will always be behind Sony.

For 4K video (since it's already cropped) EF-S lenses might make sense, but also just to allow users of Canon's APS-C lenses to use them on the new system without any pain points. Shooting cropped lenses on full-frame DSLRs is a pain because the finder image is no longer accurate, but on mirrorless ILCs the only downside is the lower final output resolution.

Thanks Barney - this is useful knowledge, but I never saw EF-S lenses as any more than a dead end alley for Canon - dating probably from the days when Canon thought that FF sensors would never get purchase. Then they became a sort of cheaper marketed second-string product even if they were capable enough.

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