I lost 2k DPS on N-Madness10 and was second from last on meter (dead last was another Ret with really bad gear) by a huge margin, whereas the last two weeks (when we were two-healing it; due to mechanics changes, usual healers were OOMing hard and decided to run an extra) I was rotating between second and third.

I found myself on a similar spot, but on Madness 10 HC. I felt extremely useless during the boss, the damage has definetly gone down imo. I even atempted the boss without reforging to haste ( since Nozdormu covers all our haste needs during the first 3 platforms and the las phase of the encounter ), and just saw similar results.

Originally Posted by Reith

How do you get to use 30 hammers when it only halves the cooldown? You have to use something between Hammer unless you have ~190% haste.

Meta gem + enchants (and other type of item enhancements) that looks to be our best options

Also snooped around professions for quite a bit.
every single profession gives 320 main stat bonus, JC and BS can as usual choose secondary stats. (JC 2x 480 secondary stat gems and BS 2x 320 secondary stat gems) If unchanged Alchemists still gets double duration on their flasks and there doesn't appear to be a guild cauldron anywhere!

Engineers will get a 1522 stamina + 855 prime stat craftable head (goggles for every class/spec) with a meta socket and 2 cogwheel sockets and a socket bonus yielding 180 prime stat. The Cogwheels give 600 secondary stat (of choice) but they're unique-equipped so you can't have 1200 haste sadly.
Engineers can also make http://mop.wowhead.com/item=87757 which is currently usable by non engineers (itemlevel 450, req lvl 87) 3 cogwheel sockets (same 600 secondary stat system) and attacks have a chance to summon a Dragonling for 20 seconds.

With the exception of Herbalism, Mining and Skinning all the professions seem to open up or directly give 320+ main stat (slightly more for stamina), Engineering as always is full of shit and might be good or might be bad. One thing is for sure, that 3x 600 cogwheel gems in that trinket looks decent for a starting trinket!
Herbalism will also have Lifeblood rank 9 which gives them 2880 haste for 20seconds every 2 minutes (I believe it locks out tinkers/trinkets for 15seconds) http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=121279
Miners will get 480 Stamina from Toughness http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=102163
Skinners will get 480 crit from Master of Anatomy http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=102219

Meta gem + enchants (and other type of item enhancements) that looks to be our best options

Also snooped around professions for quite a bit.
every single profession gives 320 main stat bonus, JC and BS can as usual choose secondary stats. (JC 2x 480 secondary stat gems and BS 2x 320 secondary stat gems) If unchanged Alchemists still gets double duration on their flasks and there doesn't appear to be a guild cauldron anywhere!

Engineers will get a 1522 stamina + 855 prime stat craftable head (goggles for every class/spec) with a meta socket and 2 cogwheel sockets and a socket bonus yielding 180 prime stat. The Cogwheels give 600 secondary stat (of choice) but they're unique-equipped so you can't have 1200 haste sadly.
Engineers can also make http://mop.wowhead.com/item=87757 which is currently usable by non engineers (itemlevel 450, req lvl 87) 3 cogwheel sockets (same 600 secondary stat system) and attacks have a chance to summon a Dragonling for 20 seconds.

With the exception of Herbalism, Mining and Skinning all the professions seem to open up or directly give 320+ main stat (slightly more for stamina), Engineering as always is full of shit and might be good or might be bad. One thing is for sure, that 3x 600 cogwheel gems in that trinket looks decent for a starting trinket!
Herbalism will also have Lifeblood rank 9 which gives them 2880 haste for 20seconds every 2 minutes (I believe it locks out tinkers/trinkets for 15seconds) http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=121279
Miners will get 480 Stamina from Toughness http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=102163
Skinners will get 480 crit from Master of Anatomy http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=102219

Didn't notice meta was changed to 1%

Herbalism looks decent but weak when u consider the 2min cd for a low 2800 haste if it was 5k it would be a clear winner

With Hammer spam and wings Engi is a clear winner with the UMPH in strength gained during SW.

Blacksmithing has big perks if haste truely is worth socketing fully while ignoring strength same for JC. I'm very cautious of JC however since it got screwed hard in cata and i bet it'll happen again when epic gems lauch in T16
DO NOT GO JC/ JC IS A TRAP.

Normal gems only give 160 prime 320 secondary. JC can give 480 secondary 320Base + 160 perk. The secondary stats on JC gems have half the budget it should be 640 haste you can only have 2 JC gems.

JC loses and is the worst profession. Blacksmith as always wins at everything and life.

Last edited by anaxie; 2012-08-31 at 09:04 PM.

Originally Posted by Professional Shitposter

getting banned from mmoc is like being let out of your jail cell when your sentence is over.

JC gem: 320 prime stat or 640 secondary stat? Seems to me like it's going to be just as good/bad as the rest of them.

I would agree that JC is going to be a bitch whenever epic gems come out, but for the time JC is the definite master of profit aswell as cheap really strong early gems when the market is expensive is going to be a bonus.

I'm going to stay with JC/BS atleast for the first tier, if epic gems screws JC as badly as we fear then I'll change when it's time. Most likely to Tailoring or Engineering depending on tier bonuses and so on (T16 that is)

JC secondary gems give 480 + secondary stat, you can have 2 JC gems. you'll get 320 more secondary stats from JC (if you want) which is half of what BS will get? Still no other profession that gives secondary stats of this magnitude tho.

*another edit*

If you go for ALL haste then what would be the replacement for JC? the only two that seems plausible would be Engineering which is awefull for making gold and Herbalism which is worthless unless you plan to compete with bots 2-4 hrs a day.

To break it down we now have 1200 more haste -950 passive str from DMC but gain extra 600 str on proc with 5 second longer duration
On the haste trinket well... we just gained a free 2700 haste, high five anyone?

These stats changes while for every class should bump us alot of DPS since they will be primarily up during our cooldowns which is pretty much the only thing ret has going for it.

LOL DMC? NO THANKS! so we just gained 1200 passive haste too change those Simcrafts balhale.\

EDIT: just checked normal version of the str proc trinket which is 3236 str 20 sec same CD as DMC. DMC will be obsolete once u get Normal version of both trinkets. Normal vortex has 6,900 haste on proc aswell.

DMC worth it for a resonable price tho since that or Iron Wok use trinket is your only option for the first month of mop until terrance opens + obtaining the terrance trinket itself.

Jade chariot doesnt appear to be in the game or anyones jade trinkets.

Last edited by anaxie; 2012-08-31 at 10:56 PM.

Originally Posted by Professional Shitposter

getting banned from mmoc is like being let out of your jail cell when your sentence is over.

Considering we start T14 with a TON MORE secondary %s in every spot compared to heroic DS.

Every single agi maybe even caster class in the game being close to crit cap is a reality. It will happen

---------- Post added 2012-08-31 at 11:06 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Grognard

25% haste means about a 3.3s Crusader Strike? I'm good with that.

Yes Mastery should jump up when we get to a haste break point where CS is used every 3 GCDS.

---------- Post added 2012-08-31 at 11:08 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol

7.8k haste... when are blizzard going to take two steps back and think "we may have a problem in T16". Honestly, we're all going to end up with 25k haste....

Judging by the 4 wration questline files it may last 4 full tiers Plus u know VALOR UPGRADE SYSTEM is a full tier upgrade all on its own. T15 will feel like T16 we WILL have a 29=30k top end 2H valor upgraded in T15 esp if its off final boss.

Originally Posted by Professional Shitposter

getting banned from mmoc is like being let out of your jail cell when your sentence is over.

Judging by the 4 wration questline files it may last 4 full tiers Plus u know VALOR UPGRADE SYSTEM is a full tier upgrade all on its own. T15 will feel like T16 we WILL have a 29=30k top end 2H valor upgraded in T15 esp if its off final boss.

I think they dumped that one.

Originally Posted by Tya

As a warlock, allow me to be the first to say that I get tremendous amounts of joy from watching fear pathing take you to Africa.

Originally Posted by Drayarr

Twinking is like going back to school when you are 30, just to be smarter than the other kids.

Friend on beta confirmed HoL is still gaining same % of mastery point for point as normal so our simcraft needs to be buffed back to 116k PLUS we should gain a shit ton more dps and move up the list simply because the trinkets upgrades + our cooldown links outweight other players options. and with 1:45 icd should be more frequent. We should easily be 120k on simcraft.

---------- Post added 2012-08-31 at 11:23 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Adramalech

I think they dumped that one.

it's slated for 5.1 5.0 valor is for your reputation valor epics.

Originally Posted by Professional Shitposter

getting banned from mmoc is like being let out of your jail cell when your sentence is over.

Oh hooray, now we have to find some sort of breakpoint for Ret when mastery becomes more valuable to a point and then find a new haste point and then the wheels just keep going... Sometimes I wonder if GC and the others in the class balance team do things for joke...

Oh hooray, now we have to find some sort of breakpoint for Ret when mastery becomes more valuable to a point and then find a new haste point and then the wheels just keep going... Sometimes I wonder if GC and the others in the class balance team do things for joke...

Rather be happy that all secondaries are valueable unlike cata. curious if 1200 passive haste + proc puts str gemming back in. Bet it does.

Looking at simcraft with a rough guesstimate adding back our HoL damage. The fact ret always performs better then Simc <cata as an example> because of the classes cooldown and trinket power together. Plus the trinket buffs being stronger for ret then most classes. We prolly are going to be well above dks and equal to the best rogue spec. Also mages will be nowhere near that high. TONS almost every single mop fight is either very high movement or swaps on heroic.

Maybe the devs weren't blowing smoke at us we are balanced in T14N/H gear. Just have to get any version N/H of the intended tier/ trinket / big fkin wpn.

Plus one of the bosses in HoF is the RET fight. 30 second burst phases for 600% increase damage taken. lol?

---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 12:09 AM ----------

Correction HoL was stealth nerfed. They put the stealth nerf on live in 5.0.4 with the "bugged" tooltip.

it's confusing but I'll be simple you will still get the same MASTERY % per rating but the HoL damage will see the 12% decrease. The nerf still stands my bad.

Last edited by anaxie; 2012-09-01 at 12:09 AM.

Originally Posted by Professional Shitposter

getting banned from mmoc is like being let out of your jail cell when your sentence is over.

No, current Simcraft is correct. It was using the 2.1% per mastery value at 116k with a wrong ICD on Darkmist. Post those changes it is at 111k. I'll run the different trinkets (which do have correct procs in SimC) and update the profile if necessary.

I would be very surprised if switching that one trinket knocks haste down from 3/4 of strength to below 1/2 of strength (at 90), which is the necessary change for non haste gemming to be optimal.

Just logged onto beta and confirmed that mastery is indeed at 1.85% per mastery.

No, current Simcraft is correct. It was using the 2.1% per mastery value at 116k with a wrong ICD on Darkmist. Post those changes it is at 111k. I'll run the different trinkets (which do have correct procs in SimC) and update the profile if necessary.

I would be very surprised if switching that one trinket knocks haste down from 3/4 of strength to below 1/2 of strength (at 90), which is the necessary change for non haste gemming to be optimal.

Just logged onto beta and confirmed that mastery is indeed at 1.85% per mastery.

Approximately a 1k dps gain to switch to Lei Shin instead of Xuen.

How exactly does ICD on darkmist nerf us when it's 105? The same cooldowns as wings. Seems more like a boost.

Using common sense every aspect of gear in the entire zone and tier set is in massive swing favor towards ret and you are just pissing on it.

Nevermind if you "HAD THE REAL PROCS" why the hell would u use relic of Xuen when it a 3k 15sec str proc is quite easily inferior to a 3600 20 sec proc with same icd.

Serious question do you even play the class you are doing simcraft for? You join the forums literally this month. Come in and start whining about senior ret opnions, rets who rank 1 regularly might I add. Call them wrong and your proof. Your proof the simcraft YOU developed.

Well my friend your simcraft has about as much weight to me as it does to the Blizzard Developers. Zero. Enjoy Theorycrafting dps with Exemplar in EJ you both have alot in common. Consistently wrong about the class while uninformed players take the words posted there and sadly simcraft as gospel.

Last edited by anaxie; 2012-09-01 at 01:23 AM.

Originally Posted by Professional Shitposter

getting banned from mmoc is like being let out of your jail cell when your sentence is over.