50 comments:

You would think if this is the bus stolen after Hinman's murder, the police would have confiscated it at some point as evidence.

I've looked for a pic of the Fiat wagon that was stolen and Beausoleil was arrested in. There is a vid on YouTube showing a small wagon in front of Hinman's house, but it's green and I read the Hinman's wagon was white.

I have had my doubts. In "The Family", it says a "Mark Arneson" was arrested driving said VW. If this was true, the vehicle would have been held for evidence at the trial, then either turned over to the (Hinman) family or sold at auction. Unless the "Manson" family bought it at a auction, I don't see that the one at Spahn's Ranch was in fact Gary's.

Hello Zarathustra and hanks for the link. I suspect the car in front of Gary's house is a Fiat 1100 estate. As the Fiat 1100 went thru alot of evolution over time, it would help to know the year of Gary's fiat. If I ever knew the year I cannot recall. I would guess the car in the video to be between '59 and '63. I have a pic that could be used for comparison, but I don't know how to post it.

It's located in Murphy canyon in the pacific palisades. The area used to be a nazi sympathizer compound. Supposedly Bruce took it down there and wrecked it. Regarding the idea that the bus may not be Hinmans...it COULD be a coincidence- but the fact that it has a UCLA parking pass that expired in 1969 is pretty compelling

Yes Zarathustra, I would agree that is it WV like, however the fiat 1100 wagon had a similiar look imo. Try this link for an example and tell me what you think:http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=fiat+1100+wagon&view=detail&id=D9435C8C8784E2027C47B70B6EF83E8A8A37A9ED&first=0Maybe i am allowing the knowledge that there was a fiat influence my opinion? If the resolution of the video was better I'm sure we could identify it.

There are many accounts of the fiat having had a toyota engine. I also recall a discrition of it as "a fiat with too large of an engine that stuck out the front", or something to that effect. Can anyone confirm this?

I found an interesting footnote from the book "Helter Skelter" online, parahrase: Beausoleil, Brunner, and Atkins went to Hinmans on Friday, July 25, 1969, Hinman was killed Sunday, July 27, his body was discovered Thursday, July 31.

Verbatim: Ironically, on July 28, 2 LASO deputies-Olmstead and Grap- visited Spahn Ranch on an unrelated matter. While there they saw the Fiat and ran a spot check on the license plate, and learned that it belonged to Gary Hinman. Grap knew Hinman, he also knew he was a friend of the people at Spahn Ranch, and therefore didn't think there was anything suspicious about the station wagon's being there. At this time, although Hinman was dead, his body had not yet been discovered.

After the discovery of the body on July 31, LASO put out a "want" on the Hinman vehicles. Grap didn't learn of it, or of Hinman's death until much later. If he had known, of course, he could have directed the investigation to Spahn Ranch and the Manson Family months before Kitty Lutesinger implicated Atkins and the others.--Helter Skelter

Also, apparently Gary Hinman's wife fled the house when the "hippies" started banging on the door, her story:

Every day I get in the queue (Too much, the Magic Bus) To get on the bus that takes me to you (Too much, the Magic Bus) I'm so nervous, I just sit and smile (Too much, the Magic Bus) Your house is only another mile (Too much, the Magic Bus) Thank you, driver, for getting me here (Too much, the Magic Bus) You'll be an inspector, have no fear (Too much, the Magic Bus) I don't want to cause no fuss (Too much, the Magic Bus) But can I buy your Magic Bus? (Too much, the Magic Bus) Nooooooooo!

This is the song I hear when I see this bus, or Charlie's skanky bus at Spahn....

Yes, I believe it was Hinman's "ex" wife, however, she said they were preparing for bed around midnight, so apparently they were living together and sleeping together. She was apparently frightened to death of the Manson family, they may have given the Fiat back to her, so that might be why no pics of it.

Marcus Aureson testified that both of Hinman's vehicles "disappeared". Beausoliel was arrested in the Fiat on Aug 6. I'm guessing the Manson family knew about this and I have little doubt Hinman's other vehicle, "disappeared" from Spahn Ranch, if it was there, very quickly.

There are vids on YouTube of the Nazi sympathizer "Murphy Ranch", apparently, it is very close to Spahn, I looked it up a while back, I think Murphy and Spahn even shared a common property line at one time.

I'm guessing that someone drove the VW bus there doused it with gasoline, and set it alight. Vehicles rust that way when the paint is burned off of them. The "Bruce Davis car" a few posts back appeared the same way. Torching stolen vehicles when they become to "hot" is a common practice, the Manson's claimed to have burned the earth mover at Barker. Wiping fingerprints, torching vehicles, murder, were probably common practices in the Manson syndicate.

Barring evidence that Hinman's VW bus was proven to be somewhere else, and I don't know of any, the 1969 parking decal is a pretty strong link. UCLA is a big school and VW buses were common in 1969, however, I'd say there is a very good chance the pics in this post are of Gary Hinman's VW bus.

Murphy Ranch and Spahn ranch are VERY seperate from one another....at least 25 miles apart. Murphy Ranch is VERY close to Dennis Wilson's previous residence however.

From what I have seen, first hand, it doens't look like the bus was torched. It is in a creek bed and I am sure it has been submerged in water more than once, giving it that lovely rusty sheen. As for the police finding it, etc....this is a very remote area, impossible to find unless you know exactly what you are looking for...and I don't think there would have been any reason for the police to suspect Murphy Ranch as a spot of suspicion.

Scrap metal theives would have a hell of a time getting that bus out of there...it's a three hour hike, round trip, and at you can't get any vehicles down in that area. I think it's destined to be there for quite a while.

orwhut said... There have been only eight comments on the Tates photo with President Bush and at least twenty about a rusty bus. Apparently buses are more interesting than Bushes.

Absolutely hilarious...And yet makes me really sad. How many of us make such a positive impact on the world that they're acknowledged & awarded by the president of the United States? I mean, seriously, imagine the president flying to you just to say: you did something really amazing with your life and we all benefited from it. Thank you. It is truly beyond my comprehension that some would chose to overlook that major, major accomplishment in Doris Tate's life to instead focus on why Debbie Tate was cut out of a photo.

This message is in response to Alisa Statman's message above. Doris Tate was clearly the ultimate pioneer regarding the establishment of victims' rights, and a brilliant and brave woman who turned her grief into action. Her work has already helped thousands of victims of crime and their families (and will continue to do so). I admire her, and I was deeply impressed seeing her confront Tex Watson at one of his parole hearings, which was fortunately (for us) filmed. I think it is amazing that our president recognized her accomplishments, although I am no fan of that president. I believe that the majority of the people who post or just read this blog feel the way I do about Doris Tate.

But please understand that on this blog here's what happens: WE PICK APART DETAILS of this case, hash them over, sometimes fight about them when we disagree; it's just what we do. (Why are we like this?) Our discussion of the photos was not out of disrespect to Doris Tate's legacy, and I do not believe that people on this blog overlook her many accomplishments regarding the use/acceptance of Victim Impact Statements in court and during parole hearings. We admire Doris. Enough said.

Alisa, I look forward to reading your book, and thank you for writing it. You are lucky to have known the Tates, and they are lucky that you took an interest in writing their story. Hope you continue to read and post comments to this blog, because I like hearing what you have to say.

This message is in response to Alisa Statman's message above. Doris Tate was clearly the ultimate pioneer...I believe that the majority of the people who post or just read this blog feel the way I do about Doris Tate.

But please understand that on this blog here's what happens: WE PICK APART DETAILS of this case, hash them over, sometimes fight about them when we disagree; it's just what we do. (Why are we like this?) Our discussion of the photos was not out of disrespect to Doris Tate's legacy, and I do not believe that people on this blog overlook her many accomplishments regarding the use/acceptance of Victim Impact Statements in court and during parole hearings. We admire Doris. Enough said.

Alisa, I look forward to reading your book... Hope you continue to read and post comments to this blog, because I like hearing what you have to say.

Super nice response. Please know that it was not the recent posts about the photos here on Eviliz' that I was referring to. Actually, Matt was kind enough to post the photo in response to some of the other blogs/discussions...As for y'all picking apart details, I completely respect that--if in 1969 there had been more diligent people such as yourselves there would be a lot less unanswered questions now.

Marcus Arneson said he left the family in May '69, this probably made Charlie angry. He returned in late July. Arneson testified "Charlie was happy to see me, which is kind of strange, because I left the family". It's not that strange when you think about what happened.

Manson offered Arneson both of Hinman's vehicles free of charge. Of course Manson knew how 'dirty' these vehicles were, Arneson didn't have a clue, and Manson knew that as well. Manson was trying to set Arneson up to take the blame for the Hinman murder by allowing him to drive off in those vehicles which would almost certainly be connected to the murder. In fact the Fiat later was, only with Beausoliel driving.

That's a variation of an old jailhouse trick, stab an enemy with a knife, then toss the knife in another enemies cell so he gets the blame.

When I first seen the YouTube vid with the car depicted in the addition to this post, I thought it might be Hinman's "Fiat wagon" that Beausoliel was arrested in because it is a small "wagon" sitting in front of Hinman's house. I've since read that it was a "white Fiat wagon". Of course painting cars a different color is possible, but if this car is a Volvo, it's unlikely this was the stolen car.

Also, about the link I posted to an article about Hinman's wife, that was just something I found online, I have no idea whether the article is accurate or not.

Manson was trying to "protect" Beausoleil by giving the cars to Arneson. Manson may or may not have known the knife and clothes were still in the Fiat, that's irrelevant, he certainly knew the cars were stolen from Gary Hinman and they represented a one way ticket to the gas chamber.

I'm guessing I can tell you how the conversation went when Arneson showed up just after the Hinman murder and not knowing anything about it, Charlie says "Hi Mark, glad to see you, got a couple of cars here you can have free of charge, got the paperwork and all, (Manson wanted him to take the paperwork because that was more incriminating evidence), if anyone says anything, tell 'em you got 'em from Gary Hinman, he was a black panther". Arneson testified to nearly all of that.

Atkins said Manson "split" just after the Hinman murder, probably after he talked to Arneson. I'm sure Manson was hiding because he expected a police raid for the murder. That didn't happen. Atkins said Beausoliel got frightened and "raced back over to Gary's to try to wipe the palm print from the wall". Atkins said, "Beausoliel loaded up one of Gary's cars and took off immediately without telling anyone where he was going, including his pregnant girlfriend".

wengr said... are we saying that BB took the fiat and split unexpectedly, and unaware that the weapon had been put in the spare well in a direct attempt to frame Ameson?

I don't know how the knife got in the wheel well or who put it there but, I've thought for a long time it was incredibly stupid of Bobby B to be found sleeping in a car that had a murder weapon in the wheel well. Now it's beginning to sound like my understanding of karma.