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Well then you should be in support of Valve's hands-off approach. There are plenty of games full of T&A on Steam, and it's not like it's ever been hard to find gratuitous violence.

So why support a company that forces a single buying option down consumer's throats? With Steam you can buy/sell keys on any number of other sites with varying discounts. EGS doesn't allow key redemption.

No they don't rofl, this is either fantasy or delusion. Epic is hemorrhaging money for TEMPORARY exclusivity. Meanwhile Steam continues to rake in the same consistent profits it always has, and most PC gamers are patient enough to wait for those exclusives to come to Steam anyway. We're used to waiting for console exclusivity to expire, after all.

Nobody "gave" Steam a majority market share. They earned consumer trust over time and through a lot of effort put into improving and upgrading the platform. As long as Epic sticks to ham-fisted and impatient strategies, it will only continue to earn them disdain from consumers.

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Given their past actions have included out and out censorship I am "I will believe it when I see it". I like the move towards it but it would be better if their censorship was an irrelevance as there are other games in town.

I view Epic exclusivity as no worse than Steam's de facto exclusivity. Them offering the option to kick some keys somewhere else is meaningless really as it all comes back to Steam in the end.

I don't think we will all be talking of Epic in the same way as we do of Steam in a few years but with potentials this great and the people backing them that they have then Epic have a real chance to do some serious damage to the current status quo. I also await this vaunted patience -- I am imagining it will be like that thing where people decried left4dead 2 coming out and signed a petition to register their displeasure, fast forward to l4d2 release and it was noted an awfully large percentage of the signatories got the game.

Steam was right place at the right time, tied it to a couple of hotly anticipated titles to get it started and then by the time anybody realised they were something of a juggernaut. Why people continue to give them so much for so very little in return.

I don't think we will all be talking of Epic in the same way as we do of Steam in a few years but with potentials this great and the people backing them that they have then Epic have a real chance to do some serious damage to the current status quo.

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They're certainly already doing damage to the PC gaming landscape which was otherwise thriving, but they aren't having any impact on Steam in particular.

Steam was right place at the right time, tied it to a couple of hotly anticipated titles to get it started and then by the time anybody realised they were something of a juggernaut. Why people continue to give them so much for so very little in return.

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Imagine that, launching with just a few high quality first-party titles was enough to start a snowball effect which turned them into a juggernaut. Epic clearly didn't learn anything from that history.

Do I use steam? Sure.
Do I have wet dreams about steam? Nah.. Unless it involves bath steam.

If I want a game, I'll buy it where I can get it. It's not like they are different consoles and you'd have to purchase an entirely different system.

Damn... People have become bloody whiners over the years, games are a business, it's all about profit, like it or not. It's also why I bloody loath piracy. So many hypocrites, people who'd rather see a game or a company fail just because they don't catter to their every will. So what if you have to instal launcher A or B? Brand loyalty is such an absurd and stupid thing.

People who would rather pirate than buy a game from another store do not care about the game itself. If people really cared about the games they want, they would support the games and buy them when they come out.

Bah! Most of these comments from people acting like spoiled brats with their hissy fits soured my mood. Grow up!

Which is ridiculous because Steam doesn't lock third-party titles into exclusivity, even if Valve helps fund their development.

They're certainly already doing damage to the PC gaming landscape which was otherwise thriving, but they aren't having any impact on Steam in particular.

Imagine that, launching with just a few high quality first-party titles was enough to start a snowball effect which turned them into a juggernaut. Epic clearly didn't learn anything from that history.

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If said exclusivity is not new hardware, radical software overhaul or something similarly potent then meh.

What damage to the PC gaming landscape? As far as I can tell all the same games are still being released, maybe even in better form than they otherwise would have been (more money, time and consultation does not necessarily make for a better game but there is a positive correlation).

If making things is hard (be it in cost, opportunity cost or time) then then you buy it in, even more so if you are going into a saturated market with a monopoly already in place. Fairly foundational business approach, especially in the tech sector (having your business bought out being the end goal for most such efforts).

If said exclusivity is not new hardware, radical software overhaul or something similarly potent then meh.

What damage to the PC gaming landscape? As far as I can tell all the same games are still being released, maybe even in better form than they otherwise would have been (more money, time and consultation does not necessarily make for a better game but there is a positive correlation).

If making things is hard (be it in cost, opportunity cost or time) then then you buy it in, even more so if you are going into a saturated market with a monopoly already in place. Fairly foundational business approach, especially in the tech sector (having your business bought out being the end goal for most such efforts).

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It's really quite simple when it comes down to it: does EGS offer anything that Steam doesn't? No. Does EGS at least attempt to match everything that Steam offers? No. Even on consoles, third-party exclusivity is not something that gamers have traditionally celebrated, only tolerated. You can't sell a product by marketing it as barely tolerable.

It's like trying to compete with Tesla by re-releasing the AMC Gremlin. Or trying to compete with Apple by re-releasing the original Blackberry. No matter how much spin you try to put on it, the majority are going to see right through the ruse and choose the superior product. That's the nature of competition.

People in here acting like EGS is providing some form of healthy competition in the market. When, in fact, it's the opposite. You're quick to come down on Steam for one reason or another while ignoring how anti-consumer Epic has been with their strong arm tactics. Throwing around millions like it's nothing is not good or healthy for us. Lacking basic security features that lead to people losing their accounts is far from "isolated". There's nothing on the EGS that is enticing outside of free games. The launcher is clunky and sluggish compared to Steam. Hell, Origin runs faster.

You can cry foul all you want, but Epic is doing it all wrong. Tim Sweeney is also the flakiest dumbass and can't keep a consistent point. His views on Linux are a great example.

Also, again, what company "accidentally" sends personal information to the wrong person? Seriously, how the hell do you do that?

It's really quite simple when it comes down to it: does EGS offer anything that Steam doesn't? No. Does EGS at least attempt to match everything that Steam offers? No. Even on consoles, third-party exclusivity is not something that gamers have traditionally celebrated, only tolerated. You can't sell a product by marketing it as barely tolerable.

It's like trying to compete with Tesla by re-releasing the AMC Gremlin. Or trying to compete with Apple by re-releasing the original Blackberry. No matter how much spin you try to put on it, the majority are going to see right through the ruse and choose the superior product. That's the nature of competition.

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If it only has to get me from A to B... Or in this case deliver me a game I want to play.

If Epic offers a better cut to the devs then that would count as something.

Do they need to match features either little used or trivially replicated? While taking care of little things is nice (it is what I like to do if given half a chance) then distractions when you have bigger goals/need to keep your eye on the prize is seldom a great plan.
I still also find the comparison to console exclusivity to be a seriously flawed one -- it saw end users miss out on games or have to buy whole new hardware sets at equivalent cost to the hardware they already had, devs having to take pains to make multiple versions and split focus as a result where exclusivity here means the vast majority of users (I will still note the Epic vs Linux and OSX stuff) download a new client and maybe make a throwaway email.

People in here acting like EGS is providing some form of healthy competition in the market. When, in fact, it's the opposite. You're quick to come down on Steam for one reason or another while ignoring how anti-consumer Epic has been with their strong arm tactics. Throwing around millions like it's nothing is not good or healthy for us. Lacking basic security features that lead to people losing their accounts is far from "isolated". There's nothing on the EGS that is enticing outside of free games. The launcher is clunky and sluggish compared to Steam. Hell, Origin runs faster.

You can cry foul all you want, but Epic is doing it all wrong. Tim Sweeney is also the flakiest dumbass and can't keep a consistent point.

Also, again, what company "accidentally" sends personal information to the wrong person? Seriously, how the hell do you do that?

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How is Epic potentially spunking their/their investor's money around going to lead to bad outcomes? I am still not sure how it unhealthy competition either, much less anti consumer.

" There's nothing on the EGS that is enticing outside of free games"
Borderlands 3 is pretty enticing, and if this Tetris effort is good then that would be another.

Do they need to match features either little used or trivially replicated?

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If they were used very little, they wouldn't have attracted so many customers. And if they're trivial to replicate, that just means Epic is incredibly lazy for launching EGS in the bare-bones state that they did.

I still also find the comparison to console exclusivity to be a seriously flawed one -- it saw end users miss out on games or have to buy whole new hardware sets at equivalent cost to the hardware they already had, devs having to take pains to make multiple versions and split focus as a result where exclusivity here means the vast majority of users (I will still note the Epic vs Linux and OSX stuff) download a new client and maybe make a throwaway email.

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If anything the comparison is overly generous to Epic, as you don't have to worry about security flaws with physical console games. EGS has yet to prove itself when it comes to protecting customer data, and I'm certainly not going to be one of their beta testers on that front.

You might be willing to settle for the bare minimum when it comes to any given product, but that doesn't mean the majority of the market is going to follow that example.

They don't though. As I've already mentioned: Steam keys offer a 100% cut to developers/publishers. A fact that Sweeney conveniently continues to ignore.

If they were used very little, they wouldn't have attracted so many customers. And if they're trivial to replicate, that just means Epic is incredibly lazy for launching EGS in the bare-bones state that they did.

If anything the comparison is overly generous to Epic, as you don't have to worry about security flaws with physical games. EGS has yet to prove itself when it comes to protecting customer data, and I'm certainly not going to be one of their beta testers on that front.

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The market ditched real world shops quickly enough despite the negatives of online, and will happily go almost anywhere if the price is right. If it delivers the game then everything else is so much gravy.

As far as I was aware the free external keys were limited in number, after which such things get the Valve tax to some degree, and said number is not a huge one -- a contest or two, some choice promotions and a modest reviewer list and you that pool is gone.

Trivial to replicate for the end user. Would probably be a licensing and code integration/maintenance nightmare for Epic (or indeed see why Valve replicated most things already extant in superior form itself). Also did these features attract customers or were the customers attracted to the games and the features came along for the ride? I will also have to go back and ponder whether this is one of those most people only use 10%, just a different 10% thing and whether it applies here.

Anything that is online I have to worry about security flaws with, physical has little bearing on that.

I mean, that sucks and all, but none of the other digital storefronts offer a refund policy that's any better, and that sounds like something you should be blacklisting that particular developer for. Broken games and abandonware are certainly not exclusive to Steam.

The market ditched real world shops quickly enough despite the negatives of online, and will happily go almost anywhere if the price is right. If it delivers the game then everything else is so much gravy.

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That's not a valid comparison when we're now into the realm of software versus software. And if what you're saying was true, Origin or a million other competitors would've already gained a majority of the market share over Steam. The bare minimum impresses nobody.

As far as I was aware the free external keys were limited in number, after which such things get the Valve tax to some degree, and said number is not a huge one -- a contest or two, some choice promotions and a modest reviewer list and you that pool is gone.

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There are no such restrictions according to Valve documents. They only ask that you keep pricing in line with Steam or lower.

Would probably be a licensing and code integration/maintenance nightmare for Epic (or indeed see why Valve replicated most things already extant in superior form itself). Also did these features attract customers or were the customers attracted to the games and the features came along for the ride?

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Yes, it's plainly obvious that the features attracted customers, as regular updates corresponded with regular bumps in daily active users over the years. If Steam had remained in its launch state, it would've died off by 2006 at the very latest. Just as EGS will be dead by 2021 if Epic keeps delaying new feature rollouts.

That's not a valid comparison when we're now into the realm of software versus software. And if what you're saying was true, Origin or a million other competitors would've already gained a majority of the market share over Steam.

There are no such restrictions according to Valve documents. They only ask that you keep pricing in line with Steam or lower.

1/20th of the features, maybe. The rest, not so much. The user can't provide his own automatic cloud saves, community forums, or access to a modding workshop.

Yes, it's plainly obvious that the features attracted customers, as regular updates corresponded with regular bumps in daily active users over the years. If Steam had remained in its launch state, it would've died off by 2006 at the very latest. Just as EGS will be dead by 2021 if Epic keeps delaying new feature rollouts.

All internet-connected software is not equal when it comes to security flaws, you know better than that. Like I said, Steam has had time to prove itself in that regard, EGS has not.

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Origin and a million other competitors lacked the games/a reason to step outside Steam. Something it seems Epic wants to rectify.

Must have confused it for another thing I read. I will hold off there until I do some more looking.

The user can happily provide cloud saves -- pointing a dropbox/google drive/[insert one of a thousand online file storage offerings] account at your saves folder is nothing drastic. The end user can go out onto the wider internet and find a forum for the game, and similarly find a modding discussion for said game.

How long did these bumps last for? Plenty of people poke the new shiny and then wander off. Similarly if we are talking about things keeping devs captive how many of these vaunted Steam APIs do that? Anyway I will not say features hurt development but I can not get close to assigning the value you seem to think the world holds for them. Not entirely sure how we set about testing this one though.

Steam has had time to prove themselves about as incompetent as every other tech firm, which is to say it is a wonder there are not more breaches but most such things are background noise these days (quickfire round which US department store got hammered hard 6 years ago?).

Origin and a million other competitors lacked the games/a reason to step outside Steam. Something it seems Epic wants to rectify.

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Origin has plenty of games, both first and third party. Way more than EGS, certainly. As a matter of fact, I read somewhere that each game has to be manually added to EGS, making the process of expanding their catalog much slower than the other launcher-storefronts.

The user can happily provide cloud saves -- pointing a dropbox/google drive/[insert one of a thousand online file storage offerings] account at your saves folder is nothing drastic. The end user can go out onto the wider internet and find a forum for the game, and similarly find a modding discussion for said game.

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We're talking about gamers of all stripes, including casuals. You might as well be asking them all to use Arch Linux. If you want to attract the widest possible customer base, convenience is the name of the game, and what you're suggesting is very inconvenient.

Steam has had time to prove themselves about as incompetent as every other tech firm

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Simply calling them incompetent doesn't make it so. Sixteen years in operation with no large-scale breaches suggests the opposite. Meanwhile, high-profile Fortnite pros regularly have their EGS accounts get compromised while streaming.

Is that like how Windows does not control the OS market because Linux, various flavours of BSD, OSX and Minix exist? Android might have changed the game a bit but as for PC game selling operations then Steam are the big swinging dick that looms over everything, censoring stuff, preventing game resale and not giving a whole lot in return for it.

2 to 5 makes a cart mandatory? give me convenience or death I suppose.

Back on forums I really dislike walled gardens that will go up in a puff of smoke when it all pops in however long. Moreover how many times have we seen devs and others making their steam forums/threads/whatever be bad? I find it best not to give people all the power.

Are so few things lacking in component uninstall these days? Didn't realise things were so bad.

I hate Steam, and I hate Epic trying to be a Steam clone. I dislike that I can't resell games. I dislike people trying to censor things. I dislike having to use one market for an awful lot of content. I dislike devs having to deal with Valve to be in with a shot of making it. Epic however have a chance of taking Steam out so until they start doing egregious shit they have the benefit of the doubt and if I happen to get a few Steam Stockholm Syndrome sufferers frothing at the mouth by constantly questioning things then so much the better.

I would also say my concerns remain unaddressed. People have tried to offer some justifications but they are all tissue thin and ultimately a minor convenience at best from where I sit. How such things could possibly justify giving the market to Steam I have yet to comprehend.

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wow, you are right, good thing valve and gog support gaming in linux to break microsoft's OS monopoly... too bad epic doesnt do that

Because noone releases anything on GoG or Microsoft Store and Origin has a dodgy reputation.

Steam has practically been a monopoly which has forced customers with a bone to pick with nonexistent customer support out of the PC gaming market.

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lmao you clearly have no clue of what you are talking about, every indie game and every classic game releases in GOG, EVERY SINGLE devolver digital game is on GOG, which shows that the whole thing about epic being "for the indie devs" is horseshit.

wow, you are right, good thing valve and gog support gaming in linux to break microsoft's OS monopoly... too bad epic doesnt do that

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lmao you clearly have no clue of what you are talking about, every indie game and every classic game releases in GOG, EVERY SINGLE devolver digital game is on GOG, which shows that the whole thing about epic being "for the indie devs" is horseshit.

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Yes, only indie games and retro games + The Witcher. And not every indie game. All of the ones that have caught my interest are only on Steam

well congrats for having extremly niche interests that require going to the only platform that lets you publish for free and without too much content filtering :/

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Well, I just found mvci on ms store at a huge discount so that was a pleasant surprise. Its crossplay with xb1 version too unlike MCC which I'll skip since my reason for wanting it on PC was to play with a friend on XB1.

Otherwise all I ever see are smartphone/tablet games, gears of War and cuphead

Well, I just found mvci on ms store at a huge discount so that was a pleasant surprise. Its crossplay with xb1 version too unlike MCC which I'll skip since my reason for wanting it on PC was to play with a friend on XB1.

Otherwise all I ever see are smartphone/tablet games, gears of War and cuphead

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well yeah, but you cant deny they have their own exclusives and failed regardless, exclusives fix nothing, steam just provides a better service for both users (workshop, forums, reviews, good UI, etc.) and devs (steam takes no cut from key sales, only steam store sales; online infrastructure thats well documented, etc.)

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