not everyone is cut out to be a teacher, it is a difficult job to say the least.

But at 5 you wouldn't even have to be a teacher, just a mama. I'm very sorry--I'm trying, but I just don't understand your logic her.

I understand that you're going to talk with people, but you've talked to the principal before about your sons safety and it obviously did nothing. What's going to make this any different? Your son is not safe in this school. What are you going to do if he gets beat up again and just refuses to go to school? The last thing you need is a jaded 5 year old.

At least talk to a lawyer...

Kelly, mama (12yoDS), doula, RN, and writer.There's no where you can be that isn't where you were meant to be, its easy

Sleepies:
I completely relate to just *knowing* that homeschool would not work out for you. I know right now (and my DD's only 2) that I would not be a good homeschooler. And if my daughter was put in a position that your son is in I would do just what you are doing, going in to talk with the principle on a one on one meeting. I'd be requesting to speak with the teacher that told me my child "fell". I'd be looking into the private religious schools (even though I'm not religious in the least). My DH and I want to eventually get a house and pay it off, and if this were the house we had in a nice neighborhood (for the most part) instead of looking into moving (because you never know, there might be an even worse bully in the next town over) I'd be looking seriously into the private schools and just make a point to reiterate at home (if my child were enrolled there) that the religious portions of the school are just to learn, and not necessarily be believed, that some people do but others believe other things (and then I'd occassionally try to have little convos about different faiths).

CMM:
You've admitted that you can't understand from SLeepies perspective why she cannot homeschool, so instead of pressuring her or trying to make her feel guilty, could you try and be supportive in some other way? Like, could you help her be productive in the path she has chosen to take? (Maybe suggesting questions she can ask the local private schools?)

I just don't want Sleepies to feel beaten down for not doing the homeschooling thing, when homeschooling REALLY IS NOT meant for EVERYONE. KWIM? (I'm not trying to be mean, rude or anything, so please don't read it in that way. )

GREAT MOM to dd (5), dd (1) and )ds( [sept 26 2006]. Married to a Navy Veteran!

well, their parents were called in, and one of the parents SPANKED her child right then/there.

this is NOT what i was hoping for at all.

so, now, basically the kid gets the message that it is OK to hit....opposite of what needed to be taught.

i was too shocked to do/say anything.

I guess I don't have a question. But, rather, I just wanted to vent. :

Thanks for listening/reading.

You know, such thinking doesn't surprise me. We have a 'problem' child that lives on our street. You know, 11 years old, throwing stones at windows, threatening people. He was raised in an environment where his Mother did not agree with spanking. Which I fully support. However, Mother and Father would often get into violent drunken physical fights in front of little boy when he was younger. She might as well as spanked him for all the damage that has been done by witnessing such violence. Furthermore, he once told me that his Mother had stated that if someone hits him... if he doesn't hit that child back, then she will hit him (her son).

It's honestly no surprise to me that so many children grow up damaged.

Although, and don't throw stones, there is no way my child would continue to attend any school which could not keep them safe from being beaten up. That's simply non -negotaible, no matter what my child would want. Esp when the offender is know to be abused. That's a recipe for disaster.

For those of you with this same thought. How many of you have ever been a teacher or worked in the schools? Teachers, in most cases, can not stop a fight from happening, though once it occurs they should stop it. That does not mean that it won't happen again. A student who will hit or beat up another still has to go through due process. He/she is protected by federal law. There are steps that must occur and proccesses to follow. No one is able to just throw a kid out for one fight! He can be suspended (though in Kindergarten after the first fight most schools wouldn't, maybe a 24 hour removal) To actually be expelled a child must have multiple suspensions or make specific death threats, or bring a weapon to school. Teachers can make sure the kids don't sit near each other, aren't in line together, etc. But it doesn't stop that child (who may be bullied at home) from jumping out of their seats and running up and pounding someone before the teacher can get there.

Please check out any religious schools you consider to learn about what their culture of non violence (or violence) is, corporal punishment etc.

If you pull him out for another year, at this young an age, that could be a great option. It sounds like he could start K in another year and be fine? (although probably not at this school!) My kids didn't start formal schooling until almost 6. If he is home at 5 I don't think you need to do any formal written work at home, if that is what is keeping you from having him home. Search for "Unschoolers" and "unschooling" parents, they may be helpful here for this kind of thing.

Take the time to heal from your marriage before you move on with someone else. Make a list of all the qualities you would like in a new partner and then work on growing that way yourself. ~mandib50

CMM:
You've admitted that you can't understand from SLeepies perspective why she cannot homeschool, so instead of pressuring her or trying to make her feel guilty, could you try and be supportive in some other way? Like, could you help her be productive in the path she has chosen to take? (Maybe suggesting questions she can ask the local private schools?)

I'm not going to support her in continuing to send her son to this school. Sorry. At 5 years old he does not need homeschooling-just mothering. (if she chose to HS at 5 that's cool too, but by no means a requirement)

How would I know what questions she should ask a private school? I've never interviewed one, nor have I known anyone to interview one. Sleepies, we also have an extensive school forum that you should check out, maybe it has info on questions to ask?

And to the PP--yes, I've worked in a PreK and DS's dad is a highschool teacher. No one is asking that the teachers physically break up fights (though at the Kindergarten level, such an expectation is not too unreasonable). But if this is a problem, the child should be moved into another class, there should be age appropriate programs about violence, maybe an extra teachers aid can sit with the students.

Kelly

Kelly, mama (12yoDS), doula, RN, and writer.There's no where you can be that isn't where you were meant to be, its easy

Sleepies, a middle-of-the-road approach you might consider is a charter cyber school. It's still technically public school and all materials and lesson plans are provided. He would be at home, safe from the bullies, and it would take the pressure of being his sole teacher off you, if it's something you'd want to consider.

ETA: I wanted to say this is not to pressure you into homeschooling. But if you really feel he's not safe, and that homeschooling isn't an option, lots of moms find this to be a good "in the middle" solution.

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I attended parochial schools from 1-12 grades. They were considered (and still are) to be the best schools in our town. And in fact, I think that in many ways they are superior to most of our regions public schools.

HOWEVER, don't make the mistake of equating "private" or "religious" with no bullying. I was picked on a lot. Never hit because I was a girl, but lots and lots of teasing, name calling, social stigma, exclusion... This continued all the way up until I graduated from high school. It was not fun & I will not be sending my child to those schools either.

We will homeschool because I simply see no other acceptable alternative (there are no charter or Montessori type schools around us either), but I totally respect that you're not comfortable with doing it. Just wanted to point out not to assume that private schools or schools in other areas are free from these problems. Frankly, I feel that if you are going to send your child to ANY sort of formal school they are going to deal with this at some point or another. But the faculty's response can and will vary widely from school to school and that should be what you focus on when interviewing people.

Oh, and my first questions to the principal would be "Why in the world do you feel that just because the boy's mother hit him in front of you the issue has been dealt with? Where do you think he probably learned to hit in the first place? Do you seriously think that hitting a child is an effective way to teach them NOT to hit?" I would also be asking for a meeting with the principal and the teacher who told you he "fell" to get to the bottom of that.

At the very least you should be able to find a school where the faculty doesn't *condone* hitting, which I'm sorry but that's what they're doing! If you do look into other schools in your area I would ask them what their response would be to a child's parents hitting them in front of the principal as a way to punish them for bullying someone. That right there should be a good indicator if you want to send him there or not.

Wow: I've been following this thread and wanted to offer you a great big cause sometimes when you post you just want to vent and get some encouragement, not tons of pressure! At least what might be confused as pressure, but certainly well-intended.

the teacher's aids are going to be keeping a closer watch on my son...to see what indeed is going on.

the first couple of incidents were with the same two "bullies". this last time was with a little girl from his actual kindergarten class. the two "bullies were at recess and the little girl was after recess (in line--going up some stairs).

i believe the principal, that she is going to have the aids watch him more closely.

my son says that no one is bothering him at recess anymore. apparently he actually likes the little girl....that knocked him down...unsure that she was being a "bully", more likely she was just wound up from recess...he was saying today "she is soooo beautiful....but mean... i just wanna kiss her, but there is no kissing in school"---which made me smile.

so, anyway...the staff knows our names and faces now. perhaps there won't be anymore problems. i have told my son to play closer to the teacher's aids at recess.

he really seems to love school and he isn't really bothered by all this excitment.

i'll let you know if there are any changes. THANKS to everyone for caring and offering such great advice.

I am glad the adults are going to keep an eye on your little one. Hugs for both of you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finch

Why do we hit people who hit people to teach them that hitting is wrong? : : : :

: Owen's aunt (his dad's sister) spanks her almost 2 year old frequently (she's been smacking his hands since around 6 months old and has now gotten up to "spanking" him harder and harder). Every time I see her she complains about how *E* is hitting other kids and she doesn't know why and she can't seem to get him to stop. She actually took him to the dr last week to ask the dr what is wrong with him and how she can get him to stop hitting. I just sat back in amazement when she told me this. Wow. How can someone be so blind? I've suggested over and over again that maybe it was because *she* was hitting *him*. She says that's not why he's hitting and that she needs to spank him to teach him who is boss : Funny how whenever I watch *E* he never hits. The moment his mom comes back to get him he turns into a little monster. Hmmm.... wonder why.

I don't know if the OP is still around in this discussion, but I wanted to suggest talking to the principal about making the school a no hitting zone for parents also. I just started at a local Headstart program and they do this and have signs posted that say that corporal punishment isn't allowed and teachers are willing to give age alternative suggestions for discipline. I have heard that the schools are starting to change how they do discipline so maybe that would be something your school would take into account. It may or may not mean that a child doesn't get spanked but hitting shouldn't be allowed at school.