The show is arguably less effective than the books with the POV characters, notably Jon, and strips some of the minor characters to the bone (like the Mountain). However, it consistently fleshes out the middling and borderline POV characters like Robb, Cersei, Varys, Littlefinger, Shae, Theon, Marg, and Joff. This episode really shows that off as it has a lot less action, but lays on the characterization thick to great effect. There is also more reoccurring thematic motives than usual, focusing on couples and marriage in particular. Good fun and as always, my detailed thoughts on the episode can be found on my blog.

Fun: “But Tyrion reads her — it was Joffrey. And who can blame him? All of King’s Landing probably secretly watches that Tyrion slapping Joffrey gif.”

Insight (on the Arya/Mel scene): “And I’m betting this sequence is lighting fireworks in the minds of book-readers, so I’m going to break format by addressing this next aside to them: [This way is better. Why have Melisandre snatch some random king’s bastard when it can be the one bastard we already know? And how about giving Arya a scene with Melisandre? Cool, right? Their dialog makes me think the producers have had some interesting chats with George R.R. Martin…].”

Because Arya’s story has been somewhat toned down from the books I thought that the double “betrayal” of Gendry wanting to leave her last week and then seeing her friend sold by the people he thought of as family is a nice way to further explain Arya’s worldview and future actions.

I was complaining about Littlefinger’s accent last episode but I felt he really sold his villainy in the latest episode. His murder of Ros was something I predicted as it made no sense for him to be schooled by someone so new to the game. In Season 2 Littlefinger didn’t work in the context of either the books or the show. In Season 3, he’s at least working in the context of the show.

All in all, a lot of non-book reader reviewers seem to be enjoying the show, although they are unclear as to where it is heading. I think they will be very pleasantly surprised – this is looking like it may just be the best season of GoT yet.

Just to add: more specifically with Littlefinger, did anyone understand why initally he believed he could take Sansa Stark and get away with it? His original plan would have been a betrayal of the Lannisters and would have landed him in serious trouble.

My earlier theory was that he planted fake plans because he suspected Ros. This lead to him unconvering both her and Varys plotting. Furthermore, as someone else pointed out, this would let Littlefinger curry favour with Tywin when he reveals Varys’ and the Tyrell’s plans making his loyalty to the Lannisters unquestionable.

The theory sounds complicated on the surface, but it is really a logical series of steps that a mastermind like Littlefinger could certainly make. I would love to know if these thoughts ever occurred to the show-runners…

This is yet another post pointing out that The Young Turk’s “whattheflick” show on youtube does a weekly video review with non-book-readers (and one guide who has read the books but NEVER discusses spoilers of any kind). It should be on the recap roundup because it’s awesome.

Really? I end up trying, then quitting when he stops reviewing the episode and starts extrapolating problems that haven’t occurred yet from things that happen in the episode.

It’s this weird, worrywart attitude that makes that review pointless. It’s not just “I didn’t like this” — it’s 50% “this wasn’t so bad, but I could totally see how because they said this one line, it might happen later that they change something I totally loved in the book and OMG THEY BETTER NOT!”

The panic over what the writers might do is ridiculous in a review. Even if I don’t agree with it, I can take his assumption that any change is a bad one (Who cares that Loras Tyrell isn’t a romantic? I couldn’t care less.). But complaining about changes that haven’t happened yet? Good lord.

Alan: Really? I end up trying, then quitting when he stops reviewing the episode and starts extrapolating problems that haven’t occurred yet from things that happen in the episode.

It’s this weird, worrywart attitude that makes that review pointless. It’s not just “I didn’t like this” — it’s 50% “this wasn’t so bad, but I could totally see how because they said this one line, it might happen later that they change something I totally loved in the book and OMG THEY BETTER NOT!”

The panic over what the writers might do is ridiculous in a review. Even if I don’t agree with it, I can take his assumption that any change is a bad one (Who cares that Loras Tyrell isn’t a romantic? I couldn’t care less.). But complaining about changes that haven’t happened yet? Good lord.

And yet they’re the ones being regular guests on Thronecast. I’ll never understand this.

Some of there complaints just don’t make that much sense to me, They HATE Theons arc, which in my opinion has been very good, but won’t actually say why they hate it other than it takes up time, and dislike Maergery in the show. I sometimes find them very interesting, but that is only about half the time. For a review from a more purist perspective I kinda like Tower of the Hand myself.

heh! I didn’t misunderstand FRINGE, but I thought I heard “tolerance” when Loras was talking about his dream wedding. It took me to the end of their spot with me repeating tolerance? tolerance? … tall… talliment… TOURNAMENT! OH.. okay.

He’s writing for a specific audience, so careful tabulation of every difference between book and show is expected. I don’t mind it–his “book to screen” section can be really helpful if you want to refer back to a specific chapter after the episode.

Can`t wait for Elio`s review next week! All too predictably he will love the show again by drooling over the terrific writing. George RR can do no wrong of course. Elio`s reviews are pathetic – and I skip over their one min slot on thronecast every time.

Conor:
Can`t wait for Elio`s review next week! All too predictably he will love the show again by drooling over the terrific writing. George RR can do no wrong of course. Elio`s reviews are pathetic – and I skip over their one min slot on thronecast every time.

I actually addressed Elio’s perspective (in a sense) in an article I posted about dealing with adaptations of books you love. I understand why he’s so put off by changes, but I also think it is totally unnecessary.

While I have always thought having 12 instead of 10 episodes would solve the problems of getting to spend enough time with the characters, it now strikes me that the last episode was really underwritten. So there’s no way they’d really have time to do two more episodes a season just from that perspective alone.

I am looking forward to reading westeros.org after that episode, especially the purists in the forums. Seriously though, All George’s Episodes so far have been very good, and he tends not to make mistakes, so I do look forward to the episode itself, bound to be good.

He’s writing for a specific audience, so careful tabulation of every difference between book and show is expected. I don’t mind it–his “book to screen” section can be really helpful if you want to refer back to a specific chapter after the episode.

I get that, and that’s fine. It’s not the comparison to the book that bothers me. I think it is silly, but whatever.

It’s the comparison of changes that he thinks MAY occur in future episodes to the book that drive me nuts.

Skipjack:
I have rarely agreed so much with Elio as this weeks recap :/

While I have always thought having 12 instead of 10 episodes would solve the problems of getting to spend enough time with the characters, it now strikes me that the last episode was really underwritten.So there’s no way they’d really have time to do two more episodes a season just from that perspective alone.

To john above me, that is both nonsense and trivializes actual hate.

You’re the one trivializing hate. We’re on a GoT site her so of course I’m talking about hate regarding GoT. It’s hate all the same. Not saying it’s on the same level as other kinds of hate, but, yeah, we’re on a GoT site…

The io9 review is excellent, shines great insight on how characters are torn between being loyal to organisations (like the NW) or to their friends and lovers.

As for that discussion between Littlefinger and Varys, they completely flipped chaos as a theory so that it’s an ascent rather than a descent. Very interesting, but Aiden Gillen took away from it I thought. He’s a good actor, but the Littlefinger in the books made a bit more sense; he was likable, but you knew he was a great manipulator as well. And so the manipulation came from getting on well with folk. In the show, it’s harder to see how he got so far when he’s so nasty and obsessed.

On another note: If you don’t like westeros.org, stay away from it. Hearing complaints about the book “fundamentalists” is way more tedious and less interesting than listening to people nitpick on book deviations. In my opinion.

Alan: I get that, and that’s fine. It’s not the comparison to the book that bothers me. I think it is silly, but whatever.
It’s the comparison of changes that he thinks MAY occur in future episodes to the book that drive me nuts.

Aww, come now. There’s a fair amount of that on here, as well! Perhaps not in the main recaps, yes, but the comments sections are bursting with it.

But anyway–a large part of Westeros.org is members speculating about past and future events in the ASOIAF world and their possible repercussions in the forums. It makes sense that the webmasters are writing their recaps from this perspective.

Isabelle: Aww, come now. We do a fair amount of that on here, as well! Perhaps not in the main recaps, yes, but the comments sections are bursting with it. But anyway–Westeros.org is all about speculating about past and future events in the ASOIAF world and their possible repercussions. It makes sense that the webmasters are writing their recaps from this perspective.

It’s just as silly when it’s done here. He’s writing a review criticizing the writers for things that haven’t done yet and may not do at all. It’s unfair and strange and not really relevant to a review of the show at hand.

This is the comments section on reviews of the show, right? I think it’s a crappy review for this reason.

Alan:
It’s just as silly when it’s done here. He’s writing a review criticizing the writers for things that haven’t done yet and may not do at all. It’s unfair and strange and not really relevant to a review of the show at hand.

This is the comments section on reviews of the show, right? I think it’s a crappy review for this reason.

Meh. I think many of his readers share his concerns, thus the points he raises are very relevant to his review. Others might disagree with his approach, but it’s a popular perspective, so is represented here. But as you’ve pointed out, you’re free to disagree.

To the fucktard who posted here and told everyone about Ros’ fate, burn in hell. Seriously, that was spoiling the series for everyone, readers and non readers. We can speculate, and the spoiler tags are here for the book spoilers, but not for what exactly is going to happen. Piece of shit. It is known.

These are always so much fun. I’d like to see them added to the list for future seasons but they’re always super good. My favorite bit this week, one of the three guys today is a book reader, and watching his face as the other guys are like “Robb Stark’s pretty smart. Smart and honorable. Unlike his dad who was just honorable. In hindsight he never had a chance”

I am surprised that so far nobody’s found the Osha-Meera squabbling problematic. The choice to give Meera a constant self-satisfied, cheerful smirk and to have almost every word out of her so far be antagonistic towards Osha isn’t one I like. It smacks of the notion that you can’t have two women in one place peacefully – they must fight over mutual jealousy.

Conor:
Can`t wait for Elio`s review next week! All too predictably he will love the show again by drooling over the terrific writing. George RR can do no wrong of course. Elio`s reviews are pathetic – and I skip over their one min slot on thronecast every time.

Oh so very true. Elio & Linda will automatically proclaim the next episode to be he best of the season. GRRM can do no wrong. It is known.

Eleanor:
I am surprised that so far nobody’s found the Osha-Meera squabbling problematic. The choice to give Meera a constant self-satisfied, cheerful smirk and to have almost every word out of her so far be antagonistic towards Osha isn’t one I like. It smacks of the notion that you can’t have two women in one place peacefully – they must fight over mutual jealousy.

We see what we want to see. You are seeing what you want to see and I’ll give you an example from last episodes, with Ser Jorah and Ser Barristan. They have both doing the same (pretty much) than Meera and Osha since they met, although in a more subtle and gentle way. Also, you complain about Meera, but Osha was as hostile as Meera and it was Osha who started the whole argument with “That’s not how you skin a rabbit”.

So, maybe I’m wrong, but I feel that what you saw in this scene was :
-The show promotes the idea that two women can’t be together or they will fight over jealousy (forgetting other examples with pretty much the same situation with two men shown in the same TV show)
-Meera is hostile towards Osha (forgetting that Osha started the argument, although Meera didn’t drop it when she could)

This is what I saw :
-Two protectors who are basically strangers to each other yet testing the other’s mettle and strength. It’s a competition, a very natural one.

Now I have two questions for you :
-What do you have against Meera? I’m curious.
-Do you feel that the show portrays women in a worse light than it portrays men?

Why is Loras joining the Kingsguard such a big deal now? He was in Renly’s Kingsguard in season 2 and nobody had any problems with the prospect of him having no heirs. Of course there wouldn’t be any problems at all if his brothers hadn’t been written out of the TV adaptation. The book/show differences seem pretty much harmless at first, but it took only 2 episodes to show how replacing Willas with Loras drastically changes the dynamics of the Tyrells (he now goes against his family to join the Kingsguard, right?)
And as a big fan of book!Loras, I’m really disappointed by how his purpose in the show has been pretty much reduced to being the source of (sometimes subtle, but sometimes cringe-worthy stereotypical) jokes about gays. Considering that obviously the writers have no problem with mentioning his sexuality and his relationship with Renly again and again, why can’t they at least once focus on how it was a tragic LOVESTORY rather than LOL TWO PENISES, and that Loras is not only a gay knight who can tell the difference between brooches and pins, but also a confused and emotionally devastated young man who now has to serve the people he hates to save the only thing he has left – his family?

Ack! I didn’t realize that quoting something would remove its spoiler tag and just posted and went to another page. :( So, so sorry! I fear I can’t edit the post anymore, you can only do that for 10 minutes after posting.

If a mod reads this, could you add the spoiler tag to the quote from my post before, please?

Agree with you here, although not many people liked her character (I myself was very guilty of not liking her yet that changed as she represents the majority of unnamed prostitutes and shows that you don’t need to be a major figure to try and fight your way out of a rut/back and it is nice rooting for the underdog)

an:
Why is Loras joining the Kingsguard such a big deal now? He was in Renly’s Kingsguard in season 2 and nobody had any problems with the prospect of him having no heirs. Of course there wouldn’t be any problems at all if his brothers hadn’t been written out of the TV adaptation. The book/show differences seem pretty much harmless at first, but it took only 2 episodes to show how replacing Willas with Loras drastically changes the dynamics of the Tyrells (he now goes against his family to join the Kingsguard, right?)
And as a big fan of book!Loras, I’m really disappointed by how his purpose in the show has been pretty much reduced to being the source of (sometimes subtle, but sometimes cringe-worthy stereotypical) jokes about gays. Considering that obviously the writers have no problem with mentioning his sexuality and his relationship with Renly again and again, why can’t they at least once focus on how it was a tragic LOVESTORY rather than LOL TWO PENISES, and that Loras is not only a gay knight who can tell the difference between brooches and pins, but also a confused and emotionally devastated young man who now has to serve the people he hates to save the only thing he has left – his family?

continuity is not a strong element of TV-level writing…unfortunately AGOT falls into that category…

To the fucktard who posted here and told everyone about Ros’ fate, burn in hell. Seriously, that was spoiling the series for everyone, readers and non readers. We can speculate, and the spoiler tags are here for the book spoilers, but not for what exactly is going to happen. Piece of shit. It is known.

Completely agree. I was really pissed that people felt like that they needed to spoil that hours before it aired. I have the “show spoilers” selected because I have read all the books and enjoy discussing what people THINK will happen on the show based upon what happened in the books. It is absurd that now I have to worry about spoilers for the next 4 episodes. Is there anyway to have different spoiler tags for show spoilers vs book spoilers? I enjoy coming online and seeing what people think is going to happen in the new episode, but I might stop doing so because it is not worth losing out on the shock of another big reveal that is not in the books. The whole episode I was expecting Ros to die, which sucked.

I’ve seen the episode now and mostly everything in it worked for me. It can easily become one of my favourites. The climb, Jon smiling, Osha and Meera, Olenna and Tywin, interesting Red Priest stuff, Varys and Littlefinger (especially the “Lady Lysa of Thrones” line was hilarious). Poor Ros and the Theon stuff is cruel and brilliant. Kudos to Alfie and Iwan. I really, really cringed, that was intense. And finally, Jon giving Ygritte the passionate kiss of life after their near fatal death, with beautiful scenery in the background. At first I thought the music was just a little cheesy (but it’s growing on me) and wanted to see Tyrion tell Sana about the marriage. Beyond that, job well done :D

And just to put your supposed opinion in perspective: It’s a fairly common judgement amongst literate people familiar with ASOIAF that – Fevre Dream aside – A Dance with Dragons may be GRRM’s most accomplished novel yet.
However, as they say, your mileage may vary…

I didn’t care for the Meera/Osha scene myself. D&D seem to think adding a pointless argument between the women over nothing adds dramatic tension when it’s just annoying. We could have used that scene time exploring more of the interesting history or mystical stuff the Reeds bring to the table. Something. Anything other than a random squabble.

Ours is the Fury:
I didn’t care for the Meera/Osha scene myself. D&D seem to think adding a pointless argument between the women over nothing adds dramatic tension when it’s just annoying. We could have used that scene time exploring more of the interesting history or mystical stuff the Reeds bring to the table. Something. Anything other than a random squabble.

There is no such thing as a random squabble on this show. There’s a reason for the squabble and I’m sure it’ll play itself out at some point this season.

“…there are sections that feel like they could have used an editor.” TIME

“…cliffhanger after cliffhanger…” “…word-drunk…” NY Times

(and those are from the rave reviews)

ADWD certainly has moxie. A real “never say die” attitude. Just think, months after the Hugo voters imp-slapped that door stopper into the Stone Age, someone posts on an internet forum that it may be GRRM’s most accomplished novel yet.

Ours is the Fury:
I didn’t care for the Meera/Osha scene myself. D&D seem to think adding a pointless argument between the women over nothing adds dramatic tension when it’s just annoying. We could have used that scene time exploring more of the interesting history or mystical stuff the Reeds bring to the table. Something. Anything other than a random squabble.

Pau Soriano, don’t take inaction against certain comments/commenters as a condoning of their actions. There were a number of tasteless comments in here, so we’re stepping in now to say let’s keep the personal attacks out of it.

Winter Is Coming:Pau Soriano, don’t take inaction against certain comments/commenters as a condoning of their actions. There were a number of tasteless comments in here, so we’re stepping in now to say let’s keep the personal attacks out of it.

I trust your judgement but reading it all in one go it seems that OitF is defending the ones doing the tasteless comments (“they’re entitled to their opinions”) and rebuking the guy that was responding to those tasteless comments in a much civilized manner.

I’ve had some negative Elio comments on my blog and I don’t agree with the drama surrounding him, especially since the man can say whatever he wants, but once you run a public site or blog, you open yourself up to criticism.

I was mercilessly attacked for years in another fandom for my strong opinions because I was consider a “leader” within that fandom. It’s the price you pay. And trying to stop people from speaking their minds only drives them somewhere else where they say it anyway (and maybe with less tact).

Elio is a reviewer, and his opinions will be criticized. It’s the nature of the beast, though I don’t think personal insults are a particularly effective way to deconstruct a critique you dislike. Commenters here are not up for personal attack, however. It’s a different matter altogether. My own like or dislike doesn’t play into it.

Really all I can stomach from Elio’s show reviews is a quick skim, but I will say westeros is great for book info and so is Elio. I just don’t get how such a fan of the books can (to me) seem so hostile to the show that has made the books more popular than ever thus making westeros.org more popular and Linda has at times seemed to descend into hysterical paranoia over how “awful” the show is.

While I don’t condone the personal attacks (Douche? Really?) I’m mighty sick of my fellow multi-time readers condemning the missing minutia. And I fully agree with Alan that Westeros.com’s fears concerning the ramifications of future-possibly-missing minutia are truly maddening! D & D are professionals, BCog is a professional, and all three of them have as deep and abiding a love for the material as Elio or Linda. Why they can’t see or trust that, I don’t know. When GRRM releases another book (or the show drops hints of future book events, like in this last episode) I’ll re-frequent Westeros and its forums. Until then, I am truly thankful for the spectacle that is this show and the amusement I find here on WiC (shout out to AngryGOTFan!). Peace, people.

We have no idea how big of a deal was made out of Loras joining Renly’s kingsguard since we did not see the reaction from Mace/QOT. They may have tried to prevent it but were more interested in having Margaery be queen, so they agreed that Loras could join, on Renly’s request.

KG,
I suspect they will split off because Bran or Jojen sense they’re being hunted by Ramsay’s men and realise Jon can’t protect them if he isn’t at the Wall. Stark heirs have to split, both need a protector, Jojen knows where else they could bring Bran.

Red Hound: We see what we want to see. You are seeing what you want to see and I’ll give you an example from last episodes, with Ser Jorah and Ser Barristan. They have both doing the same (pretty much) than Meera and Osha since they met, although in a more subtle and gentle way.Also, you complain about Meera, but Osha was as hostile as Meera and it was Osha who started the whole argument with “That’s not how you skin a rabbit”.

So, maybe I’m wrong, but I feel that what you saw in this scene was :
-The show promotes the idea that two women can’t be together or they will fight over jealousy (forgetting other examples with pretty much the same situation with two men shown in the same TV show)
-Meera is hostile towards Osha (forgetting that Osha started the argument, although Meera didn’t drop it when she could)

This is what I saw :
-Two protectors who are basically strangers to each other yet testing the other’s mettle and strength. It’s a competition, a very natural one.

Now I have two questions for you :
-What do you have against Meera? I’m curious.
-Do you feel that the show portrays women in a worse light than it portrays men?

I’m replying so late you’ll probably never see this, but here we go:

Q1: I’ve nothing against Book!Meera. My problem with Show!Meera is that we have so far only seen her aggressive side. And it’s a cheerful aggression, by which I mean not one that’s a result of deep-seated stress or worry. She seems happy and content. I simply don’t know why the writers have chosen to write the few minutes’ screentime she’s had so far like this.

Oh dear, the Unsullied on TWOP are getting restless.
Lloga gets more dickish about the show with every post. I wish he would give up. The Dany storyline is dead to him so much that he makes snarks about who the character is when her name is brought up. While the rest are just simply frustrated. The Unsullied board has become mutinous.

So he doesn’t like Dany or how she acquired the Unsullied. I know a ton of book fans who don’t like her either. I think he is still enthusiastic about the show. That one poster who said he/she is losing interest is not a regular. All-in-all, I think the regulars are really enjoying this season.

WiC.net, a bunch of the supposed “book reader” reviews have not read the books, not even up to ASOS, like The Guardian, and io9

And I can’t believe it, but Elio, who normally seems whiny and boring and overly nitpicky in a Comic-Book-Guy fashion, actually summed up a lot of my issues with this episode…but then failed to nail the source. The problem with this episode wasn’t that it made changes to the book storyline, but that it was just poorly written, mostly in its dialogue but also in its minor plot choices. And the issue lies with Vanessa Taylor, who has consistently written the show’s weakest episodes since she joined the writing staff in season 2

Taylor had nothing to do with this crappy written episode. There was nothing wrong with her episodes last season other than the Dany scenes, ep 6 was very good, and ep 2 this season was pretty good. This episode was very badly written and credited to D&D. My theory is that D&D don’t truly write the majority of the episodes credited to them together and often times one of them is responsible most of the scenes in an episode. There is a weaker link in the duo and whoever it is most likely wrote the majority of this amateurishly written episode. I assuming the weak link in DB Weiss because David Benioff is a hollywood screenwriter and successful novelist and Weiss is just his friend so he gets to write and show run GoT with him.