In the rap game, you have no cred if you don't sell out. That's one of the very first things rappers do these days.

_________________Death is pretty finalI'm collecting vinylI'm gonna DJ at the end of the world.

Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:55 pm

Mark III

Assistant Director

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:43 pmPosts: 837

Re: Proof that everyone sells out

TODAY. Today I heard the most recent Radiolab short wherein they discuss this very topic.

To go by their model of thinking, Snoop Dog hasn't sold out: he's taking whatever cred he's got and applying it as part of a fame maintenance package. There is no difference, from the standpoint of cred, between releasing a new album and doing a credit card commercial.

The show was about Nicki Minaj and her selling out: once a promising hip hop artist, now an ordinary pop product. As I don't listen to processed pop and no longer seek out hip hop, I'm fairly indifferent to who goes what with the cred where now.

_________________"The Internet has given everybody in America a voice. For some reason, everybody decides to use that voice to bitch about movies." - Holden McNeil

*Sighs - then starts burning a spoon*.. I'm pretty sure he didn't receive any money for Along Came Polly, Mission Impossible 3, or those two little indie Hunger Games flicks he signed on for.

That's like saying Steve Buscemi hasn't sold out apart from his roles in Con Air, Armageddon, The Island and Grown Ups.

_________________I'm very sorry for your loss. Your mother was a terribly attractive woman - Royal Tenenbaum

Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:38 am

JamesKunz

Critic

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:35 amPosts: 6010Location: Easton, MD

Re: Proof that everyone sells out

wisey wrote:

JamesKunz wrote:

Philip Seymour Hoffman never did.

*raises a glass*

*Sighs - then starts burning a spoon*.. I'm pretty sure he didn't receive any money for Along Came Polly, Mission Impossible 3, or those two little indie Hunger Games flicks he signed on for.

That's like saying Steve Buscemi hasn't sold out apart from his roles in Con Air, Armageddon, The Island and Grown Ups.

That's not selling out, my friend. Phillip Seymour Hoffman is fucking great in Mission Impossible 3. He's excellent in the Hunger Gameses. And I haven't seen Along Came Polly but I've heard good things about his performance there.

There's nothing "selling out" about turning in a terrific performance in a mainstream film

_________________I'm lithe and fierce as a tiger

Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:24 pm

Ken

Director

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pmPosts: 1728

Re: Proof that everyone sells out

Agreed. He treated those roles with respect. Michael Caine doing a Jaws sequel? Now that's selling out--though I hasten to say that Caine is still great despite that. PSH doing a Mission: Impossible sequel, in which he's plainly kicking as much ass as his foot can reach, does not qualify.

_________________The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.

Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:59 pm

JamesKunz

Critic

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:35 amPosts: 6010Location: Easton, MD

Re: Proof that everyone sells out

Ken wrote:

Agreed. He treated those roles with respect. Michael Caine doing a Jaws sequel? Now that's selling out--though I hasten to say that Caine is still great despite that. PSH doing a Mission: Impossible sequel, in which he's plainly kicking as much ass as his foot can reach, does not qualify.

*Sighs - then starts burning a spoon*.. I'm pretty sure he didn't receive any money for Along Came Polly, Mission Impossible 3, or those two little indie Hunger Games flicks he signed on for.

That's like saying Steve Buscemi hasn't sold out apart from his roles in Con Air, Armageddon, The Island and Grown Ups.

That's not selling out, my friend. Phillip Seymour Hoffman is fucking great in Mission Impossible 3. He's excellent in the Hunger Gameses. And I haven't seen Along Came Polly but I've heard good things about his performance there.

There's nothing "selling out" about turning in a terrific performance in a mainstream film

He's the only good thing in Along Came Polly. Although, to be fair that isn't saying much.

*Sighs - then starts burning a spoon*.. I'm pretty sure he didn't receive any money for Along Came Polly, Mission Impossible 3, or those two little indie Hunger Games flicks he signed on for.

That's like saying Steve Buscemi hasn't sold out apart from his roles in Con Air, Armageddon, The Island and Grown Ups.

That's not selling out, my friend. Phillip Seymour Hoffman is fucking great in Mission Impossible 3. He's excellent in the Hunger Gameses. And I haven't seen Along Came Polly but I've heard good things about his performance there.

There's nothing "selling out" about turning in a terrific performance in a mainstream film

He's not great in Mission Impossible 3, granted though, he probably gives the best performance in the film, but that's beside the point. It's a stupid, mainstream action film aimed at teenagers and for people who don't want to, or have the capacity to grow up. If he was born 30 years earlier and appeared in Rocky 3, would you think he sold out into a massive franchise for big bucks? Nah, he would’ve done it all for the art.

_________________I'm very sorry for your loss. Your mother was a terribly attractive woman - Royal Tenenbaum

Agreed. He treated those roles with respect. Michael Caine doing a Jaws sequel? Now that's selling out--though I hasten to say that Caine is still great despite that. PSH doing a Mission: Impossible sequel, in which he's plainly kicking as much ass as his foot can reach, does not qualify.

So Michael Caine sold out by doing Jaws 4, but Phillip Seymour Hoffman didn't sell out by doing Mission Impossible 3? Good to know.

_________________I'm very sorry for your loss. Your mother was a terribly attractive woman - Royal Tenenbaum

Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:07 am

JamesKunz

Critic

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:35 amPosts: 6010Location: Easton, MD

Re: Proof that everyone sells out

wisey wrote:

He's not great in Mission Impossible 3, granted though, he probably gives the best performance in the film, but that's beside the point. It's a stupid, mainstream action film aimed at teenagers and for people who don't want to, or have the capacity to grow up. If he was born 30 years earlier and appeared in Rocky 3, would you think he sold out into a massive franchise for big bucks? Nah, he would’ve done it all for the art.

I think it's a solid action movie and 70% of RT critics agree, but I suppose we're all stuck in adolescence.

_________________I'm lithe and fierce as a tiger

Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:34 am

Ken

Director

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pmPosts: 1728

Re: Proof that everyone sells out

wisey wrote:

So Michael Caine sold out by doing Jaws 4, but Phillip Seymour Hoffman didn't sell out by doing Mission Impossible 3?

Yes. Next question.

_________________The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.

Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:48 pm

Shade2

Second Unit Director

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:49 amPosts: 471

Re: Proof that everyone sells out

I think the key part of the selling out is the selling itself. I.e., are you there just for a paycheck/schilling your schtick, or are you doing it with purpose?

The idea that doing something mainstream or easily consumable or unimportant equates to selling out is poppycock. If an actor wants to make something his kids can see, more power to him. Nicolas Cage makes some bad movies and occasionally gives bad performances, but I haven't seen him not care. Do I want, say, Tom Hardy to make action rom-coms with Channing Tatum? No, but gunning for a mainstream hit doesn't mean he's selling his artistic soul.

And the whole idea of films being immature is a tough line. We praise things like Raiders of the Lost Ark for playing to our childhood wonderment and we rail on things like Transformers for being low-brow. The latter are mostly bad movies, but are they bad because they're immature? Note that I am including myself in the group of those who dismiss those films out-of-hand. Maybe I need to re-think.

But that's getting off-topic. Making a movie only for the paycheck is selling out. Getting a paycheck isn't.

Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:58 pm

Vexer

Auteur

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pmPosts: 3850Location: Zion, IL

Re: Proof that everyone sells out

Shade2 wrote:

I think the key part of the selling out is the selling itself. I.e., are you there just for a paycheck/schilling your schtick, or are you doing it with purpose?

The idea that doing something mainstream or easily consumable or unimportant equates to selling out is poppycock. If an actor wants to make something his kids can see, more power to him. Nicolas Cage makes some bad movies and occasionally gives bad performances, but I haven't seen him not care. Do I want, say, Tom Hardy to make action rom-coms with Channing Tatum? No, but gunning for a mainstream hit doesn't mean he's selling his artistic soul.

And the whole idea of films being immature is a tough line. We praise things like Raiders of the Lost Ark for playing to our childhood wonderment and we rail on things like Transformers for being low-brow. The latter are mostly bad movies, but are they bad because they're immature? Note that I am including myself in the group of those who dismiss those films out-of-hand. Maybe I need to re-think.

But that's getting off-topic. Making a movie only for the paycheck is selling out. Getting a paycheck isn't.

I personally prefer the Transformers films over the Indiana Jones films and I would argue that they're not bad films at all. Are they immature? at times yes, but the Indiana Jones films had their own dumb moments that made me groan out loud(mostly all the stuff with Kate Capshaw's character in Temple Of Doom, who easily wins the award for "most irritating female character of all time", I mean being scared of an owl? seriously? )

Back on topic, I know some people have accused Robert De Niro of selling out when he does certain films(I.E. New Year's Eve, Killer Elite), to me the only film where it felt like he was strictly in "paycheck" mode was "Hide And Seek", and in that case the script was so terrible I can't really blame him for not putting in a very passionate performance.

Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:18 pm

Mark III

Assistant Director

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:43 pmPosts: 837

Re: Proof that everyone sells out

1) I've never seen a Transformers film and, even though the great ed_metal_head said the first one was good, I never will. I still hate when people, including myself, complain about them as if they're the worst things ever committed to film.

2) Indiana Jones films, those first and third entries, are necessarily better than any Transformers film. They would have to be. How could they not be? I don't have to see a Transformers film to know they're better than a Transformers film. Come on. Of course they're better. I'm so confident of this position that I'll actually watch a Transformers film if anyone can make a case that it's better than, very specifically, the first and third Indiana Jones film. I'm not worried. I doubt I'll be watching a Transformers film.

3) I love De Niro like the next rational person but there's no doubt that he's been taking it easy over the last decade or so. That said, he owes a 100%-committed performance for whatever movie he's doing. All actors do. There is no "I can't really blame him" to buffer the scorn earned by a phoned-in performance no matter the movie.

And this, Michael, I know we'll agree on: Elizabeth Berkley did all of 100% of which she was capable of in Showgirls* and she was still raked over the coals. But nobody, and I mean nobody, would say she was just phoning it in. That's the sum total of all she's capable of and, while I think she's perfect in the role, I'm obviously blinded by my love for that film. Still, she gave it her all and f*ck those who come back with a flimsy "worst performance ever" argument. This is why people love, through it all, Nicolas Cage: he may never be accused for giving a half-assed performance. His whole ass, right there on screen.

My point is this: though I haven't seen Hide and Seek, I can't believe De Niro just phoned it in. It must be something else about the movie that made his performance seem lackluster. Has to be. I recently re-watched Casino and, after revising my opinion of the movie to "one of the 10 best movies of the last 20 years" from the previous "good but not great", can't believe De Niro would give anything less than an A+ job unless other factors were in play. Have you seen Casino?! I'd probably rank it higher than Goodfellas if I were to make a list. And Goodfellas is f*cking Goodfellas, too. Man alive, Scorsese made three miracle movies in the 90s! Bringing Out The Dead being the third, if you're wondering. Three!

4) Immature may not be the best descriptor for movies like Indiana Jones X or, for all I know, Transformers. Those movies may appeal to some base instincts or they may be mindless or perhaps even classically adventurous (thus seemingly adolescent or immature) but they aren't without knowledge, expertise and value. And other great stuff. Immature better describes the cheapness of movies like August Rush or Patch Adams or, outside the effects and grandiosity (or maybe with those things), Titanic.

_________________"The Internet has given everybody in America a voice. For some reason, everybody decides to use that voice to bitch about movies." - Holden McNeil

Thu May 01, 2014 1:56 am

Ken

Director

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pmPosts: 1728

Re: Proof that everyone sells out

Mark III wrote:

1) I've never seen a Transformers film and, even though the great ed_metal_head said the first one was good, I never will. I still hate when people, including myself, complain about them as if they're the worst things ever committed to film.

If you can tell me what is worse than the aggressively mediocre, I'd love to hear it.

(Don't say Hitler. That's a given.)

_________________The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.

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