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extracts vs powder? which is more cost effective. I saw a extract advertising to give me 30x the powder. Does this mean that it possible to get the same effects with 1 gram of extract that i was getting with 30 grams of powder? i feel like i have been missing out. If i am being fooled someone please tell me.

Demon has seen powdered extract and resin tar extract, but they seem to be on the expensive side and you get less. Demon imagines that consuming the extract is probably easier in powdered form than in the Toss & Wash method with dried leaf, though she wonders if smoking the Kratom resin is possible and still produces effects.

In SWIMs opinion the extracts are way more cost effective & feel alot more like pharmaceutical opioids such as: oxycodone or hydrocodone; feeling more like the latter.

In addition, SWIM prefers extracts because every powdered form of premium or super kratom has never hit him as hard as extracts have & take massive amounts (12-20 grams) to feel anything remotely like a +-10mg hydrocodone like high.

SWIM thinks extracts are will what will eventually lead to the illegalization of kratom once they gain more popularity in different countries (most likely America). If the media starts throwing out propaganda bullshit like they did with salvia, because of loud mouths and dumbasses video taping their recreational use of salvia on Youtube, kratom will most likely start to become illegalized state by state (As has been seen with Salvia in the states) or straight to the federal level.

Post Quality Evaluations:

It got me thinking that maybe i will try the extracts. i did not realize how useful they were. Thanks!

Hmm, that's interesting. Does SWIY take the extracts in pills or via parachuting? SWIM was thinking about buying some Kratom Extract/Leaf to try with her friends but doesn't really fancy the idea of consuming a lot of dried substance, and 12-20 grams seems like a lot to eat.

SWIM is new to this and was wondering what is the difference between 'extract' and 'powder'?

Sorry if that is a really lame newbie question!!

As i understand it, the powder is just the kratom leaf ground up into a powder, while the extract is all the important alkaloids extracted from it, so that you have to take less of the substance to get the effects.

SWIM agrees that it seems like powder would be a more pleasant way of consuming the stuff. Recently, she ordered 1 ounce of Maeng Da Thai Kratom, and 3g of UEI Kratom (both which cost about the same, lol), and is looking forward to her first Kratom experience. She is pretty sure that both are in powder form.

@testodan: SWIM is curious, by pie, do you mean resin pies? She has been wanted to order some Kratom Resin extract, and was wondering if it is something you consume orally or smoke?

SWIM tends to enjoy smoking things as she feels it makes for a good social experience with others who enjoy smoking as well, and has been looking for a good legal herb to smoke, whether by leaf or resin form.

Extracts are never as effective as they claim to be. 15x is not 15x stronger than regular leaf, and 3g of 15x is equivalent to at most 10g of regular leaf, and often a lot less than 10g of the more potent varieties of leaf. Also extracts do not have the full spectrum of alkaloids present in the leaf. There is a "full-spectrum" extract out there but Sir Tokesalot found this to be a massive waste of money since it's very expensive and not any more potent than 15x, though qualitatively its effects are nicer.

The best extract he ever found was a non-standardized cheap resin extract. It was the best not because it was potent but because it was cheap enough that the price/performance ratio was similar to regular leaf. It was effective in the 5-6g range, and the effects were very nice, but not quite the same as the regular leaf. It also tasted absolutely vile, far worse than regular Kratom tea.

Extracts are easier to consume. Depending on the extract, all one needs to do is either infuse it with hot water i.e. make tea, gelcap it and swallow, drown in some OJ or yogurt; there really are tons of ways to take an extract and it doesn't take a brilliant mind to figure out a few. But some extracts needed to be boiled down in the same way that regular leaf is - i.e. boil for 15 minutes, strain, boil for 15 minutes again in a new batch of water, then combine both batches and if it's too much to drink, boil down again. Messy and fussy way to consume an extract but it was the only way to get an effect out of some batches of 15x that the Good Knight has come across.

Extracts will drive your knights' tolerance sky high. They will also bring about physical addiction and dependence more quickly. The Good Knight found this out the hard way, however he is strong-willed enough and has been though enough pain (he's a knight after all!) in his life that the withdrawal effects don't really bother him.

In general, if your knights get a good effect from plain old-fashioned Bali, then they should stick with that, unless they don't have the time to prepare it. Higher-tier strains like Super/Ultra Enhanced Indo or Maeng Da do have different effects but then they start to lose out on price/performance ratio. Unfortunately there is one batch/strain of Maeng Da that is head and shoulders above the rest, and it is what the Good Knight prefers, but man is it expensive! It's at least 4x the price of regular leaf, but qualitatively its effects are nicer than just about any synthetic pharmaceutical opiate he's ever used.

Oh, and a tip: a little bit of Kanna (Sceletium tortuosum) together with Kratom can go a long way towards increasing the euphoria. A long, long way. But it should only be a pinch, no more than 200mg or so, and usually less! Too much Kanna will remove the euphoria entirely and make your knights into sedated emotionless zombies for a few hours. Mesembrine, the primary alkaloid active in Kanna is speculated to be an SSRI and PDE4 inhibitor and its effects certainly feel that way.

@testodan: SWIM is curious, by pie, do you mean resin pies? She has been wanted to order some Kratom Resin extract, and was wondering if it is something you consume orally or smoke?

SWIM tends to enjoy smoking things as she feels it makes for a good social experience with others who enjoy smoking as well, and has been looking for a good legal herb to smoke, whether by leaf or resin form.

SWIT means kratom resin pie and enjoyed smoking it, though was in his first experiences and is intended for oral consumption.He enjoys too, smoking things.

@Frond: SWIM finds the Good Knight's information quite informative! It seems as though extracts are somewhat to costly for the amount that you get. SWIM's been curious about Kanna for awhile as well, and is very interested to find out that it makes for a good experience when mixed with Kratom. SWIM may have to invest in some to go with her first Kratom adventure. She is considering at this point doing the tea method that the Good Knight described with her powdered leaf when it arrives. She thinks it may be the best way to get the most out of her Kratom experience.

After much research, SWIM had decided on Maeng Da and UEI Kratom as it seems to be a favorite among users. She would like to try other kinds as well, but was slightly deterred at the stomach effects they had. Although SWIM assumes that consuming too much of anything would result in a bad stomach experience, lol.

SWIM is quite curious about this really good, albeit expensive, strain of Maeng Da that the Good Knight is talking about, and wonders if he might be interested in divulging more information about it to her?

@testodan: SWIM wonders if SWIY experienced some effects from smoking the resin? She feels that smoking stuff can be very therapeutic in a way, and quite relaxing. SWIM has even smoked dried catnip before (from the pet store), and although it had no effects, it was still quite enjoyable to some extent and filled the house with a smell that drove her cats crazy. XD

@testodan: SWIM wonders if SWIY experienced some effects from smoking the resin? She feels that smoking stuff can be very therapeutic in a way, and quite relaxing. SWIM has even smoked dried catnip before (from the pet store), and although it had no effects, it was still quite enjoyable to some extent and filled the house with a smell that drove her cats crazy. XD

Yeah he did,but had absolutely zero tolerance,imagine 1st opioid experience, felt pure euphoria with a good feeling of nodding,not like the drained sleepy one on poppy tea.Kanna IS for smoking..The tiger prefers smoking than snorting on most of the psychactives..

@Frond: SWIM finds the Good Knight's information quite informative! It seems as though extracts are somewhat to costly for the amount that you get. SWIM's been curious about Kanna for awhile as well, and is very interested to find out that it makes for a good experience when mixed with Kratom. SWIM may have to invest in some to go with her first Kratom adventure. She is considering at this point doing the tea method that the Good Knight described with her powdered leaf when it arrives. She thinks it may be the best way to get the most out of her Kratom experience.

After much research, SWIM had decided on Maeng Da and UEI Kratom as it seems to be a favorite among users. She would like to try other kinds as well, but was slightly deterred at the stomach effects they had. Although SWIM assumes that consuming too much of anything would result in a bad stomach experience, lol.

SWIM is quite curious about this really good, albeit expensive, strain of Maeng Da that the Good Knight is talking about, and wonders if he might be interested in divulging more information about it to her?

Divulging sources is against forum rules. But google is your friend; do some detective work and you'll find this stuff out soon enough.

Unfortunately not all Maeng Da is created equal and a lot of the other types of Maeng Da the Good Sir has tried haven't been worth it.

Experimentation will be the key to this. Everyone reacts differently to this stuff and it will take some trial and error to see what works and what doesn't. It would be wise to try many different types in small quantities, and have some Dramamine handy for nausea.

Kanna is a subtle thing, not a high at all, but it does have a mood-elevating and anxiolytic effect, and in small dosages it can increase the euphoria of a Kratom experience. It combines very well with a lot of things. The Good Knight has been using it recently to control mood swings and it seems to work well, though of course placebo is also a very real thing.

With Premium powder you are looking at 25-30g for a decent feeling. Thatís an awful lot (40-50) capsules to swallow and drinking will be just as great a chore.

Whilst the extracts are certainly not as strong as the vendors make them out to be, with UEI you would need 2g for the same effect, one if youíre talking about the ultra strong Krypton. There is also less nausea with these enhanced strains. You are ultimately getting what you pay for and if you have the money itís a no brainier. However, as previously mentioned this is a substance with addiction potential.

With Premium powder you are looking at 25-30g for a decent feeling. Thatís an awful lot (40-50) capsules to swallow and drinking will be just as great a chore.

Whilst the extracts are certainly not as strong as the vendors make them out to be, with UEI you would need 2g for the same effect, one if youíre talking about the ultra strong Krypton. There is also less nausea with these enhanced strains. You are ultimately getting what you pay for and if you have the money itís a no brainier. However, as previously mentioned this is a substance with addiction potential.

Well, this is not the case with SWIM's vendor. Swim takes about 10 pills, which is about 6 or 7 grams i believe. and swim uses premium bali kratom. But all vendors are different

Actually in SWIMs large experience with Kratom he must say that for cost effectiveness one needs to find a good source for premium powdered leaf. SWIM can get a nice 100g bag that will last much longer than the equivelent in price extracts. Also by using extracts one tends to increase tolerance quickly thus having to increase dose...this can get out of control.
But for one offs or occasional use SWIM always says to use UEI (Ultra Enhanced Indo)
This is good for getting effects and takes very little experimentation o get right.
Using premium powder can be hit and miss for a lot of people but once one finds the right strain and dose then its premium powder all the way !!

As i understand it, the powder is just the kratom leaf ground up into a powder, while the extract is all the important alkaloids extracted from it, so that you have to take less of the substance to get the effects.

Say an Extract is a 15x Extract. How much should swim take? BTW, swim is new to Kratom and has never tried it yet. Also, how should swim consume the Kratom? Just mix it in a beverage of choice?

SWIM prefers the powdered form of Kratom. SWIM lives close to a small shop that sells it in every form. He takes small amounts 1/4 teaspoon and finds that it is a good potentiator for just about anything. The extract typically gives SWIM a terrible hangover that lasts the entire next day. If you want to a good online Kratom vender, message/email SWIM.

barbaby89 added 5 Minutes and 53 Seconds later...

SWIM prefers the powder, taking it in low doses is a good potentiator for just about anything, opiates mainly. The extract gives SWIM a terrible hangover that last through the entire next day.

Last edited by barbaby89; 13-10-2009 at 03:20.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost

barbaby, far be it for me to tell you about your vendor but if SWIM were getting a bad hangover from an extract then this is his conclusion.
1. It could be that SWIY just reacts badly to that particular extract (some people react badly to Bali Kratom)
2. (more likely) That this is low grade Kratom, a good quality Kratom extract should never produce hangover next day really.
3. SWIY took too much extract which cased a Kratom OD, headache, nausea, vomitig for a day !

Also, one more thing, please dont discuss sources on the forum, even if its through a PM via here. This is against forum rules. (I dont want you making the same mistake I did)

barbaby, far be it for me to tell you about your vendor but if SWIM were getting a bad hangover from an extract then this is his conclusion.
1. It could be that SWIY just reacts badly to that particular extract (some people react badly to Bali Kratom)
2. (more likely) That this is low grade Kratom, a good quality Kratom extract should never produce hangover next day really.
3. SWIY took too much extract which cased a Kratom OD headache, nausea, vomitig for a day !

Also, one more thing, please dont discuss sources on the forum, even if its through a PM via here. This is against forum rules. (I dont want you making the same mistake I did)

Cheers

Swim tried to make tea out of a 15x extract and no matter how hot the water was it wouldn't completely dissolve and the Kratom that didn't dissolve was like lil hard pieces. Is that normal with making tea's?

Its not a good idea to make tea with an extract, tea is best made with plain crushed leaf.
Its better to mix 15x with some plain leaf and use a liquid to wash it down the throat with.
Many people mix it in a smoothie or maybe honey, lots of ways to ingest it, but SWIY has found that extracts wont dissolve in water and one really does need to get all the left over sludge into the stomach.