ZeroPly:scubamage: Atypical Person Reading Fark: markfara: Gary Johnson's not going to win a single state, and those who vote for him won't be proving a point in anyone's mind but their own.

Hopefully, the grownups will make the right decision.

Derpity derp.

He's got a point. If the win was decided by popular vote, he'd be derping. However the way the electoral college works effectively shuts out any 3rd party voter unless they manage to get enough votes to actually win a state. About the best Johnson could hope for would be hitting 5% and getting equal representation on all ballots for the next election and federal funding for 2016.

Since federal funding is now infinitesimally small compared to the PACs who now control the stage, it really, honestly won't matter. If Johnson had the PACs behind him, he'd be plastered on half the billboards we see already.

Except it's not a pass-fail on the 5% number. What if Johnson gets 4.5%? That will give a HUGE impetus next election to put the Libertarian candidate over that 5% and will raise their support significantly. How about 4%? That'll be a huge boost too. I'm sure Johnson would take 3.5% and go home happy. So your vote in Illinois for him counts proportionately to the total number of votes cast. Your vote for Romney means nothing - all 20 electoral votes are going to Obama, period.

It's better to see this in terms of an Overton window than as possible vs impossible for this particular election.

Your graphic conveniently omits Obama's deficits. The guy who called W's deficits "unpatriotic" has made W look like an amateur. This is fourth year in a row with a deficit in excess $1 trillion.

That's your idea of responsible governance?

Oh you mean the deficits inherited by having to bail out the GOP deregulated banking sector or actually putting war costs on the books instead of hiding them for 8 years or do you mean TARP which GWB signed?

Right. Because all of the deficits came from that. If you have to tell yourself that to make yourself feel better, I guess you can.

So with the GOP legislature blocking all progress, where did the spending come from then?

pseudoscience:markfara: Gary Johnson's not going to win a single state, and those who vote for him won't be proving a point in anyone's mind but their own.

Hopefully, the grownups will make the right decision.

Actually, if a third party candidate can manage 5% of the vote, then they are eligible for federal campaign funding.

"Minor party candidates and new party candidates may become eligible for partial public funding of their general election campaigns. (A minor party candidate is the nominee of a party whose candidate received between 5 and 25 percent of the total popular vote in the preceding Presidential election. A new party candidate is the nominee of a party that is neither a major party nor a minor party.) The amount of public funding to which a minor party candidate is entitled is based on the ratio of the party's popular vote in the preceding Presidential election to the average popular vote of the two major party candidates in that election. A new party candidate receives partial public funding after the election if he/she receives 5 percent or more of the vote. The entitlement is based on the ratio of the new party candidate's popular vote in the current election to the average popular vote of the two major party candidates in the election."

Link

You still need to start grassroots. You need to be making a difference at the local level. You cant have a third party president when the rest of the country is still Dems and Gops. To me its ridiculous to even try for the POTUS with a party that barely 5% supports. Tea Party did it by being funded and swallowed up by the GOP. The only possible contender for a viable 3rd party is the Occupy movement. If they continue to do more relief work and community organizing then I can see them being a contending political party in 8 years.

I voted by mail here in CA about two weeks ago. Just went online to check on status. They have no record of my registration, at least not according to the computer, but they knew me well enough to send me ballots the last four years with all my correct information.

So now I'm on hold with the registrar's office to see what's going on with my ballot receipt (you tear off part of the ballot to keep as a receipt) to see what's going on.

UPDATE: They picked up and affirmed that they had, in fact, received my ballot.

You guys talking about 2-3 ballot initiatives? CA had 11 IIRC ballot initiatives, and endless pro- and -con commercials for each one. I pity Ohioans.

Long time lurker, first time poster. (Made the account last night)I"ve lost FB friends, not spoken to relatives, and have seen far too much derp on my TV.I've been lurking here since just before the 2008 election, and I've been here pretty much every night until 3:00AM since the GOP primaries. You've kept me sane. I finally decided to join but it took a while because of the verbal beatdown I feared I might get, but now I think I can take it. I just wanted to say that I was here, when the walls fell. I'll post something more useless later, I've got way to much crow to prepare right now.

Cyberluddite:I'm glad this election's over now, because I really don't want to hear about it any more, man. And Romney's gonna win--to beleive Nate Silver's load of crap, you'd have to be a moron, I think. Yeah, Fartbama looked like he was gonna win in the early days of the campaine, but in the latter days, ain't no way he can keep that lead after his bad debate performence and Bengazi. Heres one statistical: Taxbama hasn't helped unemployment--multiple wive's, husband's, and grandparent's have lost their jobs just in the past year alone--for every one Chinese guy who got a job, an average American--a John Doe or Joe Smith--has lost his. Young college grads are having an especialy tough time, and so while Obama was able to bring in first time voters last time, this year it's Mitt whose gonna bring 'em, young and old alike. So I think Nate Silver (and guys like him) is talking out of his hat when when he gets up there and blows his golden trumpet and talks about how Fartbongo has a 90percent chance of winning. This isn't "science," its just some kinda magic--under where and what real statisticals can these results be supported? You gotta be smoking pot or taking payote or dropping LDS or something to think Obama's gonna win Ohio or Florida. I'm sure the Democrat Party bigwigs are ready to celabrate tonite, acting like they're golden, plates of lobster and bottle's of champane and all that, but their gonna be crying tomorrow when MITT ROMNEY is crowned president of the U.S. of A.!

Nadie_AZ:Cyberluddite: I'm glad this election's over now, because I really don't want to hear about it any more, man. And Romney's gonna win--to beleive Nate Silver's load of crap, you'd have to be a moron, I think. Yeah, Fartbama looked like he was gonna win in the early days of the campaine, but in the latter days, ain't no way he can keep that lead after his bad debate performence and Bengazi. Heres one statistical: Taxbama hasn't helped unemployment--multiple wive's, husband's, and grandparent's have lost their jobs just in the past year alone--for every one Chinese guy who got a job, an average American--a John Doe or Joe Smith--has lost his. Young college grads are having an especialy tough time, and so while Obama was able to bring in first time voters last time, this year it's Mitt whose gonna bring 'em, young and old alike. So I think Nate Silver (and guys like him) is talking out of his hat when when he gets up there and blows his golden trumpet and talks about how Fartbongo has a 90percent chance of winning. This isn't "science," its just some kinda magic--under where and what real statisticals can these results be supported? You gotta be smoking pot or taking payote or dropping LDS or something to think Obama's gonna win Ohio or Florida. I'm sure the Democrat Party bigwigs are ready to celabrate tonite, acting like they're golden, plates of lobster and bottle's of champane and all that, but their gonna be crying tomorrow when MITT ROMNEY is crowned president of the U.S. of A.!

Wondering why Romney's in Pittsburgh this morning--trying to provide cover for the PA SoS' comments that his job is to deliver PA for Romney? Make it look as if his campaigning paid off there, if it's close enough to rig?

HighOnCraic:Cyberluddite: I'm glad this election's over now, because I really don't want to hear about it any more, man. And Romney's gonna win--to beleive Nate Silver's load of crap, you'd have to be a moron, I think. Yeah, Fartbama looked like he was gonna win in the early days of the campaine, but in the latter days, ain't no way he can keep that lead after his bad debate performence and Bengazi. Heres one statistical: Taxbama hasn't helped unemployment--multiple wive's, husband's, and grandparent's have lost their jobs just in the past year alone--for every one Chinese guy who got a job, an average American--a John Doe or Joe Smith--has lost his. Young college grads are having an especialy tough time, and so while Obama was able to bring in first time voters last time, this year it's Mitt whose gonna bring 'em, young and old alike. So I think Nate Silver (and guys like him) is talking out of his hat when when he gets up there and blows his golden trumpet and talks about how Fartbongo has a 90percent chance of winning. This isn't "science," its just some kinda magic--under where and what real statisticals can these results be supported? You gotta be smoking pot or taking payote or dropping LDS or something to think Obama's gonna win Ohio or Florida. I'm sure the Democrat Party bigwigs are ready to celabrate tonite, acting like they're golden, plates of lobster and bottle's of champane and all that, but their gonna be crying tomorrow when MITT ROMNEY is crowned president of the U.S. of A.!

there's just a vast difference between explaining why you'd vote the way you would, and harranging somebody else for doing the exact same damned thing.

I seriously get tired of explaining it. I should even have to.

Yeah, but I'll definitely take the criticism to heart. I've gotten a lot of shiat about my attitude lately.

when you live in a world where you can't hit people with sticks for being wrong, finding a point somewhere before that to smile, nod, and move on to the next conversation would probably save a lot of hassle.

Your graphic conveniently omits Obama's deficits. The guy who called W's deficits "unpatriotic" has made W look like an amateur. This is fourth year in a row with a deficit in excess $1 trillion.

That's your idea of responsible governance?

Oh you mean the deficits inherited by having to bail out the GOP deregulated banking sector or actually putting war costs on the books instead of hiding them for 8 years or do you mean TARP which GWB signed?

Right. Because all of the deficits came from that. If you have to tell yourself that to make yourself feel better, I guess you can.

So with the GOP legislature blocking all progress, where did the spending come from then?

HighOnCraic:Cyberluddite: I'm glad this election's over now, because I really don't want to hear about it any more, man. And Romney's gonna win--to beleive Nate Silver's load of crap, you'd have to be a moron, I think. Yeah, Fartbama looked like he was gonna win in the early days of the campaine, but in the latter days, ain't no way he can keep that lead after his bad debate performence and Bengazi. Heres one statistical: Taxbama hasn't helped unemployment--multiple wive's, husband's, and grandparent's have lost their jobs just in the past year alone--for every one Chinese guy who got a job, an average American--a John Doe or Joe Smith--has lost his. Young college grads are having an especialy tough time, and so while Obama was able to bring in first time voters last time, this year it's Mitt whose gonna bring 'em, young and old alike. So I think Nate Silver (and guys like him) is talking out of his hat when when he gets up there and blows his golden trumpet and talks about how Fartbongo has a 90percent chance of winning. This isn't "science," its just some kinda magic--under where and what real statisticals can these results be supported? You gotta be smoking pot or taking payote or dropping LDS or something to think Obama's gonna win Ohio or Florida. I'm sure the Democrat Party bigwigs are ready to celabrate tonite, acting like they're golden, plates of lobster and bottle's of champane and all that, but their gonna be crying tomorrow when MITT ROMNEY is crowned president of the U.S. of A.!

Sliding Carp:HMS_Blinkin: JohnnyC: zappaisfrank: JohnnyC: With any luck... today we repeal the Emergency Manager bullshiat that Snyder did here in Michigan. Proposal 1 here in Michigan is essentially, "Do you want the Governor to keep undermining Democracy?"

I voted this morning and voted NO on all the proposals except the two collective bargaining ones.

Fark Snyder..I want him neutered so his last two years are nothing but exercises in floundering.

Michigander here, and I voted the same as you on the proposals. Also, +1 for the black guy.

Any feel for how the new bridge prop is going to go? Stuff I've read makes it sound scary close.

For the next election, can you guys put up a proposal to let every citizen kick every one of the thug POS Maroun's right square in the nuts?

I think the bridge prop will fail (that is to say, the new bridge will go on as scheduled). Maroun tricked a lot of people early on, but literally every individual I've spoken to sees through it now. *Disclaimer, I'm in Ann Arbor where people are a bit more educated than the average.*

And yes, I will try to get "Kick Maroun and his employees right in the jimmies" as a prop for 2013.

The county I live in doesn't even use them.. Or didn't have enough for the whole county.. Good ol' color in the circle ballot for me. They did have one machine there that was electronic and the woman running the election place asked me to use it.. Inserted my ballot and it couldn't read it.. It crushed her dreams pretty hard when it didn't work, lol.

We have paper ballots that are filled in with pen, then inserted into a machine. I love there's a paper ballot trail... but I do admit to missing the old musty-curtained mechanical voting booth with the little levers.

[i.imgur.com image 380x290]

That's exactly what we use here in the Cleveland area. It's a pain in the arse if you ask me. But that's me.

Your graphic conveniently omits Obama's deficits. The guy who called W's deficits "unpatriotic" has made W look like an amateur. This is fourth year in a row with a deficit in excess $1 trillion.

That's your idea of responsible governance?

Oh you mean the deficits inherited by having to bail out the GOP deregulated banking sector or actually putting war costs on the books instead of hiding them for 8 years or do you mean TARP which GWB signed?

Right. Because all of the deficits came from that. If you have to tell yourself that to make yourself feel better, I guess you can.

So with the GOP legislature blocking all progress, where did the spending come from then?

qorkfiend:llachlan: Call me naive, but your Supreme Court has pretty much done the right thing on the big issues, irrespective of who sits on the bench. So there's that.

That doesn't mean it always will, especially if the balance is shifted significantly (and there are four Justices over age 70). The worst civil rights abuses in American history - with possibly the sole exception of Japanese internment - have all been sanctioned by the Supreme Court. The Court may get it right, eventually, but it took them almost 100 years to undo "separate but equal".

This isn't really my wheelhouse, so I'm going to ask this as an honest question - do you think that the fact we live in the information age might shorten the those time spans? I actually think that given the state of the world, and the pace that history usually marches at, that 100 years was fairly short (and yes, I know that in human terms, it was a long painful time, that's not what I meant). Here's an example from Canada: In 1992 the Canadian Military repealed 1967s (CFAO) 19-20, Sexual Deviation - Investigation, Medical Investigation and Disposal by 2004 a lot of provinces had marriage or marriage-like rights on the books, and less than 15 years later (in 2005) Paul Martin signed the bill legalizing gay marriage. You guys went the other way - you had marriage first then the repeal of Don't ask, Don't tell. Contrast this with say, Suffrage, which took a lot longer and seems like even more of a no brainer. It just seems to me that the ball rolls faster now.

I just have faith that you guys are not going to jump back into the middle ages - I think that a lot of the prominence of theocracy is a result of fear over the economy, people are scared and clinging to a life raft they understand (it reminds me of the prevalence of environmental mutated monster horror movies in the 70s, and of movies like the Amityville Horror, in which the scary part wasn't the ghosts but the money disappearing and stuff - when people are scared, they engage in major transference).

quickdraw:pseudoscience: markfara: Gary Johnson's not going to win a single state, and those who vote for him won't be proving a point in anyone's mind but their own.

Hopefully, the grownups will make the right decision.

Actually, if a third party candidate can manage 5% of the vote, then they are eligible for federal campaign funding.

"Minor party candidates and new party candidates may become eligible for partial public funding of their general election campaigns. (A minor party candidate is the nominee of a party whose candidate received between 5 and 25 percent of the total popular vote in the preceding Presidential election. A new party candidate is the nominee of a party that is neither a major party nor a minor party.) The amount of public funding to which a minor party candidate is entitled is based on the ratio of the party's popular vote in the preceding Presidential election to the average popular vote of the two major party candidates in that election. A new party candidate receives partial public funding after the election if he/she receives 5 percent or more of the vote. The entitlement is based on the ratio of the new party candidate's popular vote in the current election to the average popular vote of the two major party candidates in the election."

Link

You still need to start grassroots. You need to be making a difference at the local level. You cant have a third party president when the rest of the country is still Dems and Gops. To me its ridiculous to even try for the POTUS with a party that barely 5% supports. Tea Party did it by being funded and swallowed up by the GOP. The only possible contender for a viable 3rd party is the Occupy movement. If they continue to do more relief work and community organizing then I can see them being a contending political party in 8 years.

Agreed, except it would still be a big deal to get public campaign funding, especially if we can get the damn PACs out of here. Also, disagree about Occupy - love the idea, but they've farked up too much already and everyone thinks they're crazy. Maybe if they start fresh...