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Re: Granger traded to Philly

As a fan, we get it both ways. We can see the business side and the loyal side.

We get to be part and enjoy the ride, we can be happy we probably made the team better by adding Turner and dumping Granger, but also sad that we got rid of a player that busted his *** for us for almost a decade.

I'm sure Danny loved it here, loved the city and the fans and his teammates, but when you can do a no-brainer deal like Bird was able to do, as an executive, you have to do it. Just hours before the deadline I was amongst the opinion that a lot of others shared in that GM's have seen Granger's not so great play coming off the injury and that no one would want him.

But, Tankadelphia was glad to help us in our quest to bring a championship to Indy by giving us a player who's played better this year and a lot younger. You can't let your emotions get in the way of that. A trade like this doesn't happen that often, and it basically put more fuel in the "Let's win a damn championship" fire, as if there wasn't already a lot of fuel.

There really is no loyalty in sports, and that's fine. It's a business. It's a business of winning, making money, and staying competitive.

It's a business for the players as well, making as much money as they can and winning as well. But first and foremost it's about the money.

As a fan I'm here for the memories, the nostalgia and winning championships. It's not like we're being paid millions to watch.

If Danny wasn't offered a big enough contract in August of 2009, he leaves. And that's not a shot at him. It's reality.

Roy was ready to play for RipCity 2 summers ago until we finally matched the contract.

Lance will go play for the worst team in the league next year if they pay him right. We aren't going to get a hometown/loyalty/we drafted you when no one else wanted to discount for Lance. His agent will be trying to get every penny he can from the Pacers. That's fine. That's how it works. If the Cavs offer Lance a crazy deal, you best bet he's on a plane to Cleveland ready to ink that deal. He'd be silly not to.

I mean I suppose it's possible he'd give us a discount, but I would not count on that. A young up and coming star who's being paid nickels by NBA standards is going to look for his payday first, then winning next. I don't fault anyone for that.

I wish Danny could have been along for the ride, though. But he'll be fine as it looks like he's going to be waived and hopefully sign with a playoff team somewhere.

Re: Granger traded to Philly

Zach Lowe (3:45 EST)
Whoa! This is like when you go see a bad comedy movie, only you decide to stick around for the credits, and they unleash a surprise blooper reel that tops the entire movie! The Sixers just dumped Evan Turner on the Pacers for Danny Granger!

Zach Lowe (3:47 EST)
And … let’s settle down. Turner has been only OK this season. Let’s not act like the Pacers are acquiring the missing piece here. They are taking a flier on Turner doing what Granger was trying to do: fill the modest wing minutes Indy was giving to Solomon Hill types before Granger came back. That’s it. Viewed that way, Turner could be an important upgrade.

Zach Lowe (3:52 EST)
The negative stuff: Turner can’t shoot from 3-point range, and he’s a very bad perimeter defender with so-so instincts and a disastrously slow and out of whack first step on defense.The good-to-middling stuff: He’s a tricky ball-handler who does well on the pick-and-roll, has learned to draw fouls by taking one extra bounce toward the rim, and throws nifty passes in tight spaces. He’s a decent midrange shooter when open, even though he lost the corner 3 this season after flashing it last season. He’s putting up strong per-game stats — 17 points, 6 boards — but Philly’s insane pace and lack of overall talent around him are inflating those numbers.Put broadly: Turner is just not that good an NBA player, and the things he does well require him having the basketball. Well, Lance Stephenson has already turned into the ball-handling captain of the second unit, even pushing C.J. Watson, a nominal point guard, mostly off the ball. Stephenson’s a good enough 3-point shooter to spot up around Turner-centric plays, but that would represent a large rejiggering of Indy’s second-unit offense late in the game. Turner isn’t providing much spacing as a spot-up guy around Stephenson, and he’s probably a defensive downgrade even from a hobbled Granger. And those bench units have survived based upon very stingy defense. Turner might be able to goose the offense a bit by pushing the base, running the occasional pick-and-roll, and driving past defenders when Stephenson kicks the ball to him on the perimeter. But we have to see that in action.Bill Simmons (4:04 EST)
I concede all of those points. But Granger looks done to me – we just watched a 24-game sample size of someone who couldn’t shoot anymore and lost his brakes. You lose your brakes in the NBA, you’re done. They couldn’t have relied on him against Miami … and who knows if he would have broken down before then? Turner offers the following things: creates his own shot, played in big games (college and pro), a little fearless (irrationally so), can play either guard position, provides an extra set of young legs … oh, and remember his 26-point game on Opening Night when Philly shocked the defending champs? I’d rather take my chances with Turner than Granger in Round 3. Plus, they saved some money and added Lavoy Allen, who quietly averaged 20 minutes a game in the 2012 playoffs when Philly almost made the conference finals. You can throw either of those guys into a playoff game without wincing. You still liked the gamble for Indy, right?Zach Lowe (4:10 EST)
Yes. This is a free rental of a strange NBA talent. The Pacers give up only an expiring and a future second-round pick, per a source familiar the deal. A team with shaky ball-handling tendencies could certainly use another ball-handler. I don’t see Allen playing real minutes with four rotation bigs and Andrew Bynum already around, but a center who can walk and chew gum is always nice to have around. Shows you how far the market for Turner fell, too. As I said before, picks are moving to some degree, but Indiana had already moved its 2014 pick for Luis Scola, and it appears only teams in urgent win-now mode are willing to even consider dealing first-rounders.Bill Simmons (4:11 EST)
And as you predicted right after the Gortat trade happened, Phoenix was smart to grab that first-rounder for him right away, if only because you never know when the market might change? Clearly, it changed – Hawes and Turner fetched less than Gortat. I loved Indiana’s gamble on Turner, personally. Just don’t think they risked anything. Plus, I’m excited for how Grantland’s Mark Titus handles this one – his hometown Pacers acquiring his archenemy from his college days (the man Titus nicknamed “The Villain”), then going into battle against Miami and his good buddy Greg Oden in Round 3? Can you say “conflict of interest?”Any chance Turner re-signs with the Pacers and haunts Titus for the rest of the decade?Zach Lowe (4:15 EST)
Let’s not act as if Turner gives Indiana huge leverage when negotiating with Stephenson this summer. Both Turner and Stephenson are free agents, which is why Indiana can do this deal in the first place. They couldn’t flip Granger for a player who carried money into next season, since that would imperil Indy’s ability to re-sign Stephenson without going into the tax. Stephenson is clearly a better two-way player than Turner, he’s two years younger, and he will command a higher market value. The Pacers want Stephenson. They are not excited about Turner as a potential alternative.But for this season? He should be an upgrade over Granger, who has lost his jumper and off-the-bounce oomph. And the Pacers won’t ask much of him. A healthy Turner also gives Indiana more flexibility in going small against Miami, though the Pacers have been loath to do that, and the Heat have been playing bigger of late. The Sixers get another second-round pick, a buyout candidate in Granger, and they hit the salary floor. Hooray! Thaddeus Young is weeping somewhere right now. Philly might not win five games the rest of the season.Bill Simmons (4:23 EST)
Philly’s over/under for wins in Vegas was 16½. Right now, they’re 15-40. And they’re trotting out the likes of Byron Mullens, Eric Maynor, Tony Wroten and a sobbing Thad the rest of the way. They might not get to 17 wins! That would be an amazing “under” cover. As for Indiana, let’s all agree that “The Villain” makes the Heat-Pacers playoff series a little more fun. Maybe this trade deadline was a belated success – at least SOMEBODY did something. We may have blown the Celeb Game on Friday thanks to six straight missed free throws and a little too much Kevin Hart, but hey, we’ll always have the 2014 Trade Deadline column.

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Re: Granger traded to Philly

But this team needs a wing who can hit the three consistently. Turner/Stephenson is a bad combo together. Granger was supposed to be that guy who can spread the floor and shoot threes at a high percentage.

Re: Granger traded to Philly

Danny's shot was off, there's no denying it. But he was moving fine. Did a good job getting into the lane, playing help defense, and staying in front of his man. Hard to say if "a very bad perimeter defender with so-so instincts and a disastrously slow and out of whack first step on defense" is a step up or down (on the defensive side of the ball, at least).

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Re: Granger traded to Philly

The locker room causes me some concern. You introduce 3 new players, 2 of which have questionable personalities, to one of the tightest locker rooms out there. And you send 2 players packing, one of which is somewhat of a father figure to your young group of players.

I hope they are all able to get through it and move on. If I feel this sick to my stomach about the situation, lord knows those guys are hurting.

Not this garbage again. Bynum and who? Who are we prematurely condemning this time?

P.S. I know you think the players are all on one knee too grief stricken to move, asking each other how to carry on as the sun slowly sets in the background, but that's almost definitely not reality.

Re: Granger traded to Philly

Danny's shot was off, there's no denying it. But he was moving fine. Did a good job getting into the lane, playing help defense, and staying in front of his man. Hard to say if "a very bad perimeter defender with so-so instincts and a disastrously slow and out of whack first step on defense" is a step up or down (on the defensive side of the ball, at least).

That's an incredibly rosy picture. Granger was never quick it begin with, and now his lateral speed is gone. He's fine end to end, but thats not how you play perimeter D.

He helps off of his man a lot in the lane because that how he can contribute as a bigger forward, but he isn't staying in front of anyone. They may as well ring a dinner bell when he checks in.

It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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Re: Granger traded to Philly

I didn't think I was hallucinating when I said Turner wasn't a very good defender:

Zach Lowe (3:52 EST)
The negative stuff: Turner can’t shoot from 3-point range, and he’s a very bad perimeter defender with so-so instincts and a disastrously slow and out of whack first step on defense.

Turner isn’t providing much spacing as a spot-up guy around Stephenson, and he’s probably a defensive downgrade even from a hobbled Granger.

Re: Granger traded to Philly

I think I might have had Indiana getting Turner in a potential trade I posted in the trade forum or on Reddit. I really didn't think Larry would go for Turner. I figured he'd want a pure shooter. But he landed a shooter who can defend well, and is a two-way player like PG. Interesting. But when Copeland played last night, I thought that meant Danny was getting traded. I also felt this was the reason why we hadn't seen Cope all season.

Had they played Copeland, then Danny comes back HOT. That creates an issue at the SF slot. But Danny didn't come back HOT as expected. Hence why last night, they started the Copeland era. It was either Danny or Scola who would get traded today. And considering Scola's issue might just be the elbow? It meant Danny would be the one. Also, for those of you thinking Scola needs time to rest and get treatment for his elbow....maybe Lavoy Allen allows Scola to go on IR for maybe a few games?

Re: Granger traded to Philly

The dichotomy of being a fan is that you can be excited and heartbroken at the same time.

That sums up how I and several others feel right now. Fans are not supposed to react rationally all the time. It's part of being a fan. Today was a really bittersweet day. I'm heartbroken that Danny was traded before getting a chance for a championship run with this core but I'm also excited to welcome Evan Turner and Lavoy Allen with open arms.

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.