Taken out of service for not knowing safety dribble?

So yesterday at my PCM our supervisor informed us that we were undergoing a surprise Ketter audit, and that it was important that we knew all the saftey lists they claim we need to know (5 seeing habits, 10 point commentary, 8 keys to lifting/lowering, 5 keys to slips and falls, elements of backing). We were also told that the word coming straight from our package car division manager of our building that if we were not able to recite every one of those stated lists that we would be taken out of service. Now, I have never had a problem remembering most of those listed above, and I understand the need to be safe, but my understanding is that knowing all this saftey material is not a job requirement. I can't see them taking people out of service because they forgot one of the 8 keys to lifting/lowering, but if they did wouldn't there be some sort of recourse on that? Has anyone else been told the same? Seems a little extreme, and honestly I believe its all bark and no bite, but if they made good on their promise what options would someone have?

So yesterday at my PCM our supervisor informed us that we were undergoing a surprise Ketter audit, and that it was important that we knew all the saftey lists they claim we need to know (5 seeing habits, 10 point commentary, 8 keys to lifting/lowering, 5 keys to slips and falls, elements of backing). We were also told that the word coming straight from our package car division manager of our building that if we were not able to recite every one of those stated lists that we would be taken out of service. Now, I have never had a problem remembering most of those listed above, and I understand the need to be safe, but my understanding is that knowing all this saftey material is not a job requirement. I can't see them taking people out of service because they forgot one of the 8 keys to lifting/lowering, but if they did wouldn't there be some sort of recourse on that? Has anyone else been told the same? Seems a little extreme, and honestly I believe its all bark and no bite, but if they made good on their promise what options would someone have?

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well its more of your sups arse if you dont know it.... if you ont know it and practice it effectively something wrong happend in the training process

So yesterday at my PCM our supervisor informed us that we were undergoing a surprise Ketter audit, and that it was important that we knew all the saftey lists they claim we need to know (5 seeing habits, 10 point commentary, 8 keys to lifting/lowering, 5 keys to slips and falls, elements of backing). We were also told that the word coming straight from our package car division manager of our building that if we were not able to recite every one of those stated lists that we would be taken out of service. Now, I have never had a problem remembering most of those listed above, and I understand the need to be safe, but my understanding is that knowing all this saftey material is not a job requirement. I can't see them taking people out of service because they forgot one of the 8 keys to lifting/lowering, but if they did wouldn't there be some sort of recourse on that? Has anyone else been told the same? Seems a little extreme, and honestly I believe its all bark and no bite, but if they made good on their promise what options would someone have?

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Failure to regurgitate acronyms is not a terminable offense. Nowhere in the contract does it state that memorization of the 10-point commentary is a condition of employment.
Your supervisor would have absolutely no grounds for taking you out of service. If he did, you could file a grievance for all wages lost. You certainly cannot be suspended from duty without first having been issued a warning letter. Your sup is bluffing....he is under pressure from above to look good on his audit. That is his problem, and that's why he's making the big bucks. Look at it this way...if he is actually stupid enough to suspend you for not repeating a commetary verbatim, you will get a paid day off without having to burn an optional. If it were me, I would go ahead take him up on his little offer. You will find that its all talk and no action.

Failure to regurgitate acronyms is not a terminable offense. Nowhere in the contract does it state that memorization of the 10-point commentary is a condition of employment.

Now soberups where in the contract does it have the 340 methods listed?

The company sets the job requirements and yes they can train you and then hold you accountable for knowing that information.

Now a little common sense applies. You know they can't afford to take the whole center out of service for not knowing the information. But you can also guess that someone will become the sacrificial lamb.

Now let me clue you all in on something real simple. This stuff is on the ketter audit. Ketter audit is a big deal. Ketter audit a real big deal. So you will learn the information and this memorization will not go away.

stop butting your heads against the wall and deal with reality. it ain't going away as long as it is on the Ketter Audit.

Brett, since mgmt. has made it clear they intend to discipline over this, I recommend you all demand union representation when they conduct their investigatory interviews.

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Thats actually a good idea!

When they first told us that my first thoughts were exactly what you all have said on here. I just wanted to confirm that with some of the great minds we have here on the browncafe. It seemed pretty ridiculous, and if they really did that they would just be giving a driver a paid day off. Unless they do was BS suggested they might do and make them work in the building, but I always thought the term "taken out of service" meant you were sent home.

Failure to regurgitate acronyms is not a terminable offense. Nowhere in the contract does it state that memorization of the 10-point commentary is a condition of employment.

Now soberups where in the contract does it have the 340 methods listed?

The company sets the job requirements and yes they can train you and then hold you accountable for knowing that information.

Now a little common sense applies. You know they can't afford to take the whole center out of service for not knowing the information. But you can also guess that someone will become the sacrificial lamb.

Now let me clue you all in on something real simple. This stuff is on the ketter audit. Ketter audit is a big deal. Ketter audit a real big deal. So you will learn the information and this memorization will not go away.

stop butting your heads against the wall and deal with reality. it ain't going away as long as it is on the Ketter Audit.

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What I find troubling is when I first began working for UPS a ketter audit consisted of a simple 10 questions of which the answers were obvious. It seems over time the amount of material has been growing ever since. Some of it for me has been going from being a hub worker to a driver, but it is becoming an obscene amount of material. If it weren't for my good memory I would probably not know it all that well because to be honest I'm not spending my free time outside of work memorizing material for work. If they aren't willing to let me memorize it on the clock then I'm not going to try memorizing it at all.

Failure to regurgitate acronyms is not a terminable offense. Nowhere in the contract does it state that memorization of the 10-point commentary is a condition of employment.

Now soberups where in the contract does it have the 340 methods listed?

The company sets the job requirements and yes they can train you and then hold you accountable for knowing that information.

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The 340 methods pertain to be able to do the job in a safe and efficient manner. A driver who achieves seniority has proven his ability to follow those methods and do the job as instructed. The company does not have the right to then come along at a later time with a book full of silly word games and demand that the employee be able to recite verbatim a bunch of acronyms under threat of disciplinary action.

Now let me clue you all in on something real simple. This stuff is on the ketter audit. Ketter audit is a big deal. Ketter audit a real big deal. So you will learn the information and this memorization will not go away.

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The Keter audit isn't a big deal. Its just an audit. Someone with nothing better to do decided that we all needed to recite acronyms like trained parakeets. Some people will memorize them verbatim. Others wont. Life will go on.

[stop butting your heads against the wall and deal with reality. it ain't going away as long as it is on the Ketter Audit.

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The only people who are butting their heads against a wall...are the management people who try to intimidate their employees into memorizing this drivel by threatening to suspend them. It isnt gonna happen.

Failure to regurgitate acronyms is not a terminable offense. Nowhere in the contract does it state that memorization of the 10-point commentary is a condition of employment.

What I find troubling is when I first began working for UPS a ketter audit consisted of a simple 10 questions of which the answers were obvious. It seems over time the amount of material has been growing ever since. Some of it for me has been going from being a hub worker to a driver, but it is becoming an obscene amount of material. If it weren't for my good memory I would probably not know it all that well because to be honest I'm not spending my free time outside of work memorizing material for work. If they aren't willing to let me memorize it on the clock then I'm not going to try memorizing it at all.

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Here, Here! No need getting so acromonious about acronyms, just put us on the clock to study, THEN give us the test!

Now a little common sense applies. You know they can't afford to take the whole center out of service for not knowing the information. [/COLOR]But you can also guess that someone will become the sacrificial lamb.

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The only "sacrificial lamb" in all of this will be the manager who is stupid enough to actually take someone out of service for not memorizing a commentary. He's going to wind up owing that employee back pay, and Corporate will not be happy.

We had the same deal. I had 8 hr request got in at 5.30 already over 8 hrs and center manager told me I had to take another 10 mins to do the audit. I reminded him of my 8 hr request and he said I had to work as directed. I clocked out anyway and he asked what I was doing. Soooo I said hey if I had 15 more stops I would have brought em back due to granted 8 hr request. Then followed that up with if you have a problem see steward when he gets in. He about blew a gasket told me he was putting me back on clock and I WOULD stay for the audit. So I told auditor I had an 8 hour request as provided to us by contract. I said I know you have no fn clue what that is but you are in violation of my contractual rights. When I file charges on this I willl need to ad your name. So do you mind writing it down for me? Furthermore other than that I do know all the answers you won't get the ones you want. Now are we done here if so goodbye. I turned around and walked away. On way out center manager was outside having a smoke break, he looked at me and said that was quick, did you talk to the auditor? So I told him yes I did. Well I did talk to auditor might not have been what he wanted!