Effects of the government shutdown on Estes Park and individuals (4 letters)

Rocky Mountain National Park closed on Oct. 1 as part of the federal government shutdown. The park’s closure hurts nearby Estes Park, which is trying to recover from recent flooding. (Andy Cross, The Denver Post)

Thanks to The Denver Post and Steve Lipsher for bringing home to Colorado just one of the many tragic stories the government shutdown is visiting upon our people. And thank you for calling out the Colorado Republican congressional delegation for voting for the shutdown. I hope Colorado voters will remember this outrage when they go to the polls in 2014.

Judy Ekstrom, Littleton

This letter was published in the Oct. 10 edition.

Steve Lipsher must not get any up-to-date news or he is deaf or blind. Sen. Harry Reid and President Obama will not negotiate and thus shut down the government.

I am happy for letter-writer Stephen H. Cohn. He has not been affected by either the sequester or the shutdown. This is clearly the most important issue for him. I have a different perspective.

My husband lost his job because of the sequester. It took almost six months for him to find a new one. He had to take a big pay cut, but at least he got a job. Some of his co-workers are still looking. We had to use most of our savings and it will be a while before we can build them back.

But of course, Mr. Cohn isn’t having a problem, so it’s all good. Thanks for relieving my mind.

Beth Heinrich, Colorado Springs

This letter was published in the Oct. 10 edition.

Some people may think I sound a little crass, but I really think our priorities are all wrong when our attention is focused on a few thousand furloughed government workers and not on the millions of private-sector employees who have lost jobs under this administration, or are having their hours cut due to Obamacare. Those federal workers will get back pay for hours not worked and work not done. Private-sector employees will never see that. When you are “furloughed” in the private sector, it’s a pink slip. Will those unemployed private-sector employees get free popcorn from AMC Theatres or free admission to the Denver Art Museum? I highly doubt it. Let’s get our priorities straight and focus on growing the private sector instead of growing more government.

Denise Robinson, Parker

This letter was published in the Oct. 10 edition.

With the government shutdown, it is not enough for individuals to generically complain about congress and say Congress should do its job. This generic complaint is a cop-out. When Congress isn’t working, the responsibility falls to the voters to have opinions and make a choice.

In a democracy, people don’t get the government they deserve, they get the government they vote for.

I encourage people get educated about the issues, make informed opinions, express them to our Congress, and vote.

Christof Stork, Denver

This letter was published online only.

For information on how to send a letter to the editor, click here. Follow eLetters on Twitter to receive updates about new letters to the editor when they’re posted.

Mr. Stork wrote the most intelligent letter.
Ms. Ekstrom and Mr. Glerup succinctly illustrate the political divide that keeps the shutdown going.
And I liked Ms. Heinrich’s letter.

toohip

thor likes Mr. Stork’s letter too. . ironic? No, because just like 16% of the 54% who say they don’t like Obamacare want a more liberal (single payer) national health plan, – thor also supports Mr. Stork’s comments because he “believes” (“hopes” – because free thinkers don’t just “believe”), that when the voters consider who’s really at fault that spin that “it’s Obama’s(Dem’s) fault!” will stick, and his guys will win back the Senate, and they can finally stop obstructing progress and push regressive agendas through Congress, and President Ted Cruz will sign it into law.

Robtf777

In the past few days…….I have heard some “things” that can’t possibly be true……because they are that STUPID and MORONIC…….but that have been told to me by friends who work as law enforcement officers in the Denver Metro Area……so……are these things “true” or “not”?

(1) The open air War Memorials in Washington DC…….that are out in the open air…..and not enclosed in some building……that are just there…..out in the open……have had barricades place around them…….and security personnel are present…..to insure that no one can just walk up to the Memorials……that are out in the open.

(2) Yellowstone Park: National Park Rangers are stationed around to prevent ANYONE from taking PICTURES.

===============
Here’s what REALLY happened at Yellowstone:

The Park was closed because of the shutdown……but some tourists who were caught inside the Park and were staying at a hotel in the Park…….well……here’s what one of the tourists reported:

“The seniors quickly filed back onboard and the bus went to the Old Faithful Inn, the park’s premier lodge located adjacent to the park’s most famous site, Old Faithful geyser. That was as close as they could get to the famous site — barricades were erected around Old Faithful, and the seniors were locked inside the hotel, where armed rangers stayed at the door.

“They looked like Hulk Hogans, armed. They told us you can’t go outside,” she said. “Some of the Asians who were on the tour said, ‘Oh my God, are we under arrest?’ They felt like they were criminals.””
===============
Some news media used words like “gestapo” to describe the situation in Yellowstone……and some American tourists felt ashamed and embarrassed by the actions of the Federal Government towards them and the foreign tourists.

Congress may have instigated the shutdown……but the National Park Service…..acted the way they did……all on their own.

peterpi

All the parks are closed, Robtf. According to the reports I’ve heard.
Old Faithful now erupts close to every 90 minutes.
So I guess it depends on what reports you and I are listening to, doesn’t it?
Very clever comment stratagem, though, trying to present your animosity towards the Obama administration as innocent bewilderment.

thor

So, you aren’t bewildered when an open air monument has barricades put around it? You are either naive or disingenuous. Which is it?

toohip

keep clinging to that minutia, thor. . but it ain’t getting the hang time you’re hoping for (fail). You’re either not very smart or dumb. .OK. . which is it? (e.g., either the Dems and President give into our demands. . or they refuse to compromise) :o)

peterpi

You’re really funny.
Old Faithful may be open-air, but it takes roads to get there. It takes rangers to assist the public. It takes federal workers to maintain the place.
What the Republicans are doing is blindingly obvious: They want to fund the departments they like, and keep everything else shut down.
Funding for troops? Oh, sure.
For cancer research? Oh, sure.
For PBS? Forget it.
For EPA? Forget it.
For HHS? Forget it.

toohip

“So I guess it depends on what reports you and I are listening to, doesn’t it?” The power of the Fourth Estate! Unless the Fourth Estate has been bought and paid for or they realize drama vs truth in journalism sells more newspapers/air time/advertising.

Tbone

For the love of god, conservatives. Since you don’t own one, please, I’m begging –

buy a BS meter. They’re not expensive.

Man. You guys will believe anything.

Dano2

That sure does get them foaming, doesn’t it?

And I can’t wait for all the ear-plugging and lalala-ing when studies from actual reality are published that illuminate the hokum behind having their hours cut due to Obamacare. or the hilarious millions of private-sector employees who have lost jobs under this administration,

The bubble.

Best,

D

toohip

98% of companies over the minimum employees count, already provide their employees with health care ins, and the ones that are “threatening” to take away health care ins and cut employee’s hours to less than 30 hours to increase their profit margin. . . are just that. . “threatening” to feed the political spin machine. When the rubber hits the road, and the costs and reality of Obamacare come out, they’ll make a “business decision” and included in that decision is retention of highly skilled employees who will with the drop of a hat go work for a company that will provide reasonable benefits. “What the market will bear.” Same with Obamacare. a market-based open competitive plan created by Republicans and the Heritage Foundation, and implemented by Republican Presidential candidate Mitt Romney when he was Governor, then flip-flopped on to appeal to an ever reducing base.

thor

As well you, as you prove with many of the things you post. I have a spare BS meter you can have if you promise to use it before posting on here

Tbone

That was dumb.

For instance – which party regularly believes fake news stories in the Onion?

Hell, just LAST WEEK faux news aired a fake news story about Obama paying out of pocket to keep a muslim museum open.

guest

So which party regularly believes fake news stories in the Onion? That’s a good question. Got anything to back up your conclusion?

What about the story that a 1 percenter left a 1% tip that the Huffington Post picked up and ran with. Oh, you should have seen the indignation by the 18,000 + lefties.

Tbone

In addition to the one already mentioned, abortionplex.

guest

That was one congressman and he at least didn’t worry about Guam tipping over due to stationing 8000 Marines on it like Hank Johnson (D) did.

Thomas Weiss

That was the funniest thing I’ve EVER SEEN…the guy looked drunk…

ags4ever

Your question has an obvious answer, for the “onion” is a leftist oriented rag, and you and your like accept everything posted on it as gospel, similar to the “huffingtonpost”.

toohip

maybe thor has a “spare bs meter” because he keeps wearing them out? or the rechargeable batteries are dead because he refuses to recharge them because that would make him too “green?”
(I’m sorry, I’m resorting to right-wing personal attack tactics, . . but it is kind of fun!)

toohip

(psssst! most of them don’t really believe in their own spin, it’s just used for the low information voters. . their belief is something much more obtuse!)

Tbone

That’s just sad.

ags4ever

yes, you are quite pathetic, and so are your fellow democrats.

ags4ever

tbone, it is yourself and your fellow low-information and fraudulent lemming like voters who will believe anything if the president says it. Nothing this president says has any foundation in truth, for he is a democrat, a member of the party of liars — remember Bill Clinton?

johnrpack

It’s sad when armed guards at the WWII memorial are costing us more to keep it closed than it costs when it’s open.

Tbone

How much more?

thor

Any amount is too much since it is an open monument that doesn’t require anyone being there to supervise it. My wife was there and wondered why anyone with any sense would shut it down, unless they were trying to hurt WWII vets trying to view the memorial.

Tbone

So in teabaggerstan, they don’t have people that clean the memorials, provide security, and maintain them? That stuff all just happens magically?

Because here in reality, those are actual things. Most monuments actually take security and maintenance to run smoothly. THey take cleaning – sweeping, emptying the trash, and sometimes they even have guides there! Imagine that!

guest

What timing. There is a story out today about a good Samaritan who was doing that on the mall until he was threatened by one of the Park Policemen. I’m guessing you are just making up excuses to the unprecedented moves by this Administration. You can read about it here. He quoted the cop as saying perhaps overflowing trash cans would help them.

I’m figuring it is a real news story as USA today, ABC news, NPR, etc. have picked it up.

thor

teabaggerstan: where liberals live in denial. The common teabaggerstani wishes he was clever enough to move to Realville, where conservatives live. Now, do you really believe that a monument needs constant maintenance? Get real. Its a ploy to inflict pain and make people made at Republicans. ALERT: It has backfired and the Presidents approval rating is 37%.

Tbone

Yes, thor, monuments need to be cleaned, the trash emptied, and they typically have security.

ags4ever

your calling others “teabaggerstan” is quite typical of those who know that they have no facts or any thing resembling logic or reasoning to support their views. The facts are the government has more than enough revenue coming in to the treasury every day to pay for all the enumerated items in the constitution. What it does not have the revenue for are all the items that are not authorized by the constitution by being enumerated powers of the congress.

toohip

OK, then let’s go to default and see if you’re right! Dare to go there? Or have you been looking at the polls that the people blame the Republicans for all of this?

toohip

wouldn’t a free thinking realize that if you shut down the gubmint, THIS is what you get? What did you expect? Clearly illustrates the anti-government types don’t understand what Government REALLY does do and support in it’s socialist agenda. Reality bites!

“Own it! Don’t fart and blame it on the dog!”

thor

Still haven’t pulled your pants up, eh

peterpi

I’ll say it again:
The Republicans want to pick and choose which parts of government they let open, and which they’ll continue to hold hostage.

guest

So the Democrats are holding it all hostage. That makes a lot of sense.

peterpi

The Democrats want everything back open. Everything.
But you’d know that.
The Republicans have been eager to shut down government for months, except for the parts they like.
The want Obamacare gone in the worst possible way. And, that’s what we have: The worst possible way.
The Heritage Group and others are even now shouting to hold everything hostage until Obamacare is gone. No retreat. Take no prisoners.
Your side is the one with no sense.

guest

If the Democrats want everything open, why then do they refuse to let the parts open that the Republicans have sent CRs for? And if you followed the news, it has been the Democrats who wanted a government shutdown because they felt the Republicans would be blamed for it.

Obamacare is not ready. It should be delayed for a year. I understand the poster boy for signing up actually never purchased a plan and the administration has admitted that their $640 million website “need design changes and more server capacity.” For that much money it should work perfectly.

peterpi

Your first paragraph shows a lack of reading comprehension.
Sure, the Republicans will allow CR’s for the portions of government they like. The rest will remain shut down indefinitely.
Anyone can see through that.
Even now, the “agreement” that has the press all excited is for a six week extension of the debt ceiling. Period. No mention whatsoever of an agreement to open all of government.
And in six weeks, Republicans will make new demands. You guys are going to spend the next 3-1/4 years nibbling Obama to death. Every 3 months or so, another shutdown, another crisis over the debt ceiling, another excuse to not fund daily operations.
You’re going to make Obama pay dearly for winning the presidential election.
Then in 2017, if your guy or gal becomes president, you”ll expect smooth sailing from the Democrats.
Regarding Obamacare, in 2014, you’ll ask for another year’s delay of Obamacare, or Old Faithful and the WWII Memorial gets it. And in 2015, and in the summer of 2016.

guest

You guys sound like a used car salesman who above all else doesn’t want the person to think about it.

ags4ever

Why does the president shut down the parks if “he wants everything back open”? There is no reason for any shutdown, in any case, since social security and medicare taxes, federal income taxe withholding, (including quarterly payments) and other forms of taxation are providing a continuous stream of revenue that is more than adequate to pay the salaries, health care and death benefits of all uniformed military personnel, and even the salaries of the Congress and the president, plus provide more than enough money for paying the interest on the national debt and to provide for the Common defense, which are two enumerated items in article one section eight that are REQUIRED of the federal government.

Cut out all the pork, and all the welfare payments and this country’s government could work and quite well on 35% of the spending that we currently use.

Thomas Weiss

Truth is if they really want Obamacare gone all they need to do is let it operate for a couple of years, it will be so painful it will kill itself.

thor

Except the Republicans can’t shut anything down at this time. So say it again all you want.

peterpi

They just have, on October 1st.
They refused to negotiate with the Senate, they refused to conference, they refuse “clean” CRs.

thor

But they have no power to shut down anything, get it! And they didn’t refuse to negotiate. Get it. But the President said he will not negotiate. Get it!

toohip

Get that talking point off Faux News, did ya John? I’m so sad, I lose sleep that these veterans can’t visit the WWII memorial, because the party they vote for shut it down. After all didn’t Faux News call it “just a slimdown” not a shutdown? So if it’s just a “slimdown” . . why is it so sad for you? Pick an feigned outrage and stick to it. . you’re all over the board.

johnrpack

I usually don’t watch TV at all. I prefer newspapers and the internet to get my news. I’m not sure I’ve ever watched Fox news.

Personally, I don’t care whether the monuments and parks are closed or not. But when the closure replaces a once-a-day cleaning crew with 24-hour armed guards, you know the price didn’t go down.

One reason I’m all over the board is that I’m not a Democrat or a Republican — I blame both parties. I call each issue as I see it — not as someone hands talking points to me. My impression is that the Democrats are going to take more damage in this shutdown — while the Republicans got it last time. But I’d be plenty happy if both parties took a hit — and there were fewer people willing to unthinkingly take their party’s position.

And the reason they need guards at the WWII memorial is that it’s an open air/outside memorial with no walls, gates, fences, etc. Try Googling “did nps put 24 hour guard on wwii memorial” and all you get is right-wing web sites like breitbart. com. . are these the internet site you were were talking about. And if you claim you “don’t care” whether monuments are open or not. . .why are you upset there are “armed guards” covering the monument? I thought you “don’t care?”

John, just a clue. . . you’re NOT. . “all over the board” you’re pretty much centered in Right-Wing World.

johnrpack

I’ve never been to any of those websites. I MAY have watched a Fox news broadcast in a doctor’s office — but I don’t keep track. I don’t watch any TV at home.

I don’t care whether the monuments are open because such things are not germane to the proper role of government. I do care that Obama is finding ways to increase total spending even during a supposed shutdown. I hated W for the same reasons, BTW.

You don’t read much of what I post if you think I’m right-wing. I mock both Republicans and Democrats when they deserve it (which is pretty much all of the time). I’m totally opposed to the neo-con agenda, ready to see W tried by the International Court for war crimes, and opposed to every spending priority of both parties.

We need a whole lot less of both the Republican and Democrat parties.

thor

Which party do vets vote for? Pull up your pants and get real. You don’t even feign outrage, you just rage!!!!

Your source is not current and applies to only one election. Because I drive for a living, I see plenty of bumper stickers saying something like “A vet voting for Obama.”

toohip

I “love” this right-wing lie that jack-booted Gov’t security is out stopping people from taking pictures of Mt. Rushmore or Yellowstone, because. . .well, that’s what gubmint people do to march lock-step with the socialist President and their socialist gov’t agency. Just dare to dream if Mt. Rushmore were sold to a private enterprise they wouldn’t be preventing access or people from “viewing” the monument. . they’d be charging them a FEE to enjoy their Public Lands!

ags4ever

The jackbooted government security people are doing exactly that, toohip. for they only allow a favored few (mostly illegal immigrants (as shown on the one CBS news show I watched last night)) to tour the World War Two memorial in DC, while denying World War Two VETERANS the right to visit THEIR memorial.

guest

Age, you have to realize you don’t want to comment to 2. He’s like an infestation of locust. He will find a subject he likes and will put inane comments all over it. He normally will account for about 20-30 percent of the postings on those topics and 1% of the actual ideas discussed.

Judy, you are right. But its the Democrats who need to pay for the shutdown of Estes Park. Why? Because its the administration making the decisions. And every decision is arbitrary and designed to inflict pain so that people think it is the Republican’s fault. But it isn’t working and the polls are showing that the tide is turning.

peterpi

So, everything is the Democrats’ fault. The Republicans are blameless.
You’re such a comic, thor.

thor

Oh, they are both at fault and you’ve ssen me post that thought many times. But I have to balance all of the accusations that the Republicans are at fault with my own accusations that the Democrats are at fault. I may be a comic, but you are boring when you use the same, tired arguments.

toohip

They’re not “arguments,” thor,. . they’re facts and truth . . check the polls. 54% might disapprove of Obamacare, but of that 54%, 16% want something more liberal, like single payer. That leaves you with 38% oppose Obamacare, and how many of those simply disapprove because they don’t understand it, or watch Fox News? Virtually all of the allegations spun by the you and the usual suspects here on Obamacare, are not substantiated, and can be proven as a lie. But when you don’t have truth and reality on your side, you have to cling to beliefs, then turn them into lies, in fear the people might grow a brain.

ags4ever

yes, everything is the democrats’ fault, for they have no authority to forece anyone to buy a product they don’t want or cannot afford. Nor do they even have any authority to provide any kind of health care for the individual citizen.

Only under “maintenance of an army and navy” can the congress even provide pensions and health care, and death benefits for our veterans, and that only because such things are good recruiting tools.

Congress has no authority to provide charity for anyone.

Tbone

Yep. The shutdown is definitely not the fault of the people who wanted the shutdown.

Sounds legit.

toohip

“But its the Democrats who need to pay for the shutdown of Estes Park. Why? Because its the administration making the decisions. ” LOL, thor, this “stream of conscience” is pretty amazing, that it’s the President who makes the decisions on whether to shut the gov’t down or pay America’s bills. I realize you’re trying to play off Judy’s and Christof’s point that voters need to access the real culprits here and vote sensibly in 2014, but be careful what you ask for. Spinning this “it’s Clinton’s Obama’s fault!” . .”oh, and the Democrats too”. . . in hope it sticks is a risk even you know isn’t going to work. You’re getting way ahead of yourself and your party’s agenda to “get Barry & the Dems”, by trying to make this a campaign issue for 2014. It WILL be a campaign issue, but not what you hope for. Dare to dream!

thor

Christof, brilliant assessment and solution. Yours should have been the first letter posted in order to set the correct tone.

peterpi

“Set the correct tone”???
But it’s all the Democrats’ fault, you have said so!

toohip

thor got caught up in his “free thinking” agenda and had a “stream of conscience” moment that we could all agree with. But enjoy the moment – he’ll be back to blaming Democrats and liberals.

Dano2

Harry Reid and President Obama will not negotiate and thus shut down the government.

No need to negotiate with terrorists and extortionists.

You lost. Tough rocks. Get over it.

Best,

D

guest

If “You lost.” is correct, why then didn’t the democrats win control of the House? And if the Republicans wanted to shut down the government why do they keep sending over CRs to open it while the Democrats keep turning down the chance to open the parks, the CDC, etc.?

toohip

get off the Fox News pipe, guest. The Republicans realize the American people are wising up (72% oppose shutdown over Obamacare, and blame GOP), and that the drama-inducing media is starting to cover some of the more serious shutdown outrages, like fallen soldier’s families not getting their Gov’t ins. checks to bury their sons and daughters. They realize that this ploy is not working, and that the rest of the country is not watching Faux News, like you, guest. The more the outrage, the more the people demand truth and details of who’s REALLY to blame here, and silly allegations like Melvin Glerup and Denise Robinson are not going to stand up, except when drama media like DP wants to stir the pot of it’s readers.

You and your party are realizing this bluff isn’t working. So they’re floating CRs that merely put off this debate, in hopes the spotlight will fall back to Miley Cyrus, and not the perpetrators of this top media story. Or they’re trying to mask the more media-sensitive stories of people being outraged not being able to access Public Lands (National Parks) or families of fallen soldiers, by temporary putting a band aid on these problems to reduce the outrage, so the public doesn’t notice who’s REALLY behind this shutdown and hostage taking. They’re banking the outrage of the people will be mis-directed to the President and Reid & Democrats. . and it’s not working so they’re trying to mitigate the outrage. Republicans are great opportunists, but poor leaders.

Tbone

Uh,…..gerrymandering? Ever heard of it?

guest

And your proof of this is?

Tbone

Proof of what? Gerrymandering?

guest

No, that gerrymandering is the reason the Democrats didn’t capture the House.

Tbone

You can’t be that stupid.

guest

I asked for proof. Are you that stupid that you don’t know the difference between proving what you are contending and simply calling someone a name? Oh, wait a minute, you are.

Tbone

What proof do you need? The fact that the dems won the popular vote in the house by over a million votes.

No one – I repeat – no one – is denying the massive gerrymandering that’s taken place.

wrong, tbone. The democrats have made no effort to “compromise” with anyone on this unconstitutional issue. Government has no authority to require anyone to buy any product, nor does it have any authority to provide health care for any individual, at the taxpayers’ expense.

toohip

Please drop this senseless argument. When SCOTUS says the law is constitutional, you can cling to Rush Limbaugh talking points!

Tbone

Hey Melvin – question. Do you know a lot of deaf blind people that write letters to the editor? Or maybe you just think deaf blind people can’t find or understand up to date news?

Or has the DP just stooped to trolling its own readership?

guest

This makes absolutely no sense. What in the world are you talking about?

toohip

It’s trolling to the the types that comment below, who still. . don’t get it.

ags4ever

You and tbone are the only persons who still don’t get the fact that the president, the congress and teh courts have absoutely no authority under the constitution to require people to buy any product, or impose any kind of penalty, fine, or tax on them if they don’t want or cannot afford to buy that product. In addition, there is no authority in the Constitution for the government to require health insurance for any person, nor provide health care for any person.

Dano2

Tell it to the Justices!

Best,

D

guest

Do you understand what SCOTUS said in the ruling? I doubt it.

toohip

Didn’t the the Supreme Court authorize Obamacare? Looks like it’s no illegal! Ooops! You heard this on right-wing talk radio didn’t you?!

toohip

While the Fourth Estate (the media) continue to milk the drama out of the shutdown/debt ceiling crisis and speak in terms only “it’s Congress’s fault,” meanwhile people like Melvin Glerup and Denise Robinson, still remain inside “the bubble” of Fox News spin and anti-Obama/Democrat rhetoric. The media give sound bites to the Tea Party spinners that it’s Harry Reid, Obama, and the Democrats fault for this shut down and debt ceiling crisis, because “they won’t c-c-c-c-compromise!” Compromise. . what? De-fund settled, vetted law they don’t like? The Republicans have pulled this before and lost the war, but won the battle. They’ll hope for the same this time, hoping they can meet their first agenda – embarrass the President and demean his legacy, and wreck Obamacare, if not delay it when they believe they can win the Senate.

History will do justice to this era of obstructionism and trying to drag the country backwards, but the media continue to fail in it’s drama-driven news, looking for the man bites dog . . . mean while low-information voters are being interviewed by late night talk show hosts as “entertainment” on how stupid these people are, asking do you support Obamacare or the Affordable Care Act.

ags4ever

Where is there any authority for the government to require health insurance for everyone, or any individual? Where is there any authority for the government to force people to buy any product, especially one they don’t want or cannot afford? And where is there any authority for government to impose a tax, or a fine or penalty for not buying a product that a person either doesn’t want or cannot afford? IN other words, why do you support the ever expanding role of government in destroying our freedoms?

toohip

I guess that “authority” came from Congress when the bill was passed, and the law was vetted by SCOTUS. Next question?

toohip

Ms. Robinson I have a clue for you. . all those “private sector employees” you claim are being furloughed without pay, while Federal employees will get their pay, are companies sucking off the teat of the Federal gubmint called “contractors.” If it wasn’t for the Federal Gov’t’s generosity (that’s you, Mr. Robinson), these companies nor these private sector employee’s jobs. . .wouldn’t exist. There are other private sector jobs, and even state gov’t jobs that are being affected by this shutdown, but merely illustrates how important our Federal gubmint really is, in spite of the anti-Gov’t types here on this forum.

These are classic straw man arguments that want to deflect from the very minority group in Congress who are dragging our U.S. Gov’t down and crashing an economy that’s trying to restore itself. Playing this lie-game in hopes the more than the low-information voter or right-wingers in the bubble will get excited – that it’s really the President’s and Democrats fault for not “c-c-c-compromising” (giving in) with the Tea Party Republicans.. . only works when the Fourth Estate fails, and the Republicans are gambling the Fourth Estate will stay the course and not speak to the man behind the curtain.

johnrpack

Agreed. And it’s high time we shrank the reach and scope of the federal government. We need many fewer government contracts for lobbyists to scoop up.

ags4ever

The un affordable “Affordable Care Act” should never have been passed. And the supreme court’s initial ruling that the congress had no power to force people to buy any product, and impose a fine or penalty on them if they did not buy that product, was unconstitutional was entirely correct. The Roberts’ court’s subsequent actions in re writing the law, creating a new law, an action specifically prohibited to the Supreme Court and reserved entirely for the Congress of the United States (Article I, section one of the Constitution), was totally unconstitutional. Its further action in changing that unconstitutional fine or penalty for not buying a product into a tax for not buying a product, was also a violation of Article I, section seven, paragraph one of the Contitution, which says that all bills for increasing revenue (tax bills) must originate in the House of Representatives. Since this new law, imposing this new tax originated in the Supreme court, it is totally unconstitutional.

toohip

ags I realize you’re a Constitutional scholar, but Congress and SCOTUS have spoken. It’s settled law. If you don’t like it get enough of your guys in the Senate and White House and repeal it. In the meantime stop whining and trolling these loony talking points.

toohip

“The most revealing example of the lunacy that now rules is the very health care plan that has Republicans so up in arms that they’re willing to wreck the economy to get it repealed. The Affordable Care Act is actually based on market principles that conservatives, including Mitt Romney and the Heritage Foundation, once endorsed. Its centerpiece promotes competition among insurers and subsidizes the purchase of private insurance.” E.J. Dionne Jr.http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_24273956/heartbreak-extremism

Tbone

We know this. It’s the teabaggers you need to convince.

ags4ever

the fact that you prefer to call other people names shows that you know that you have no facts whatever, nor any conceivable/possible form of logic or reasoning to support your opinions.

Where exactly in the Constitution does the federal government get any power to force people to buy any product? WHere does it say that the government has the power to require ownership of a particular product, and where does the Constitution give the congress the power to impose a fine or penalty, or impose a tax for not buying a product some people don’t want, and many people cannot afford to buy?

Answer is, the Constitution does not give any such power to the Congress or to the Supreme Court or the executive branch.

mrfxx

So – Beth Heinrich believes MILLIONS of jobs have been lost courtesy of the Obama administration. I can buy off on thousands over the last 5 years – possibly tens of thousands – but MILLIONS?

Interestingly, tens of millions of jobs have been lost courtesy of offshoring – a practice which not only started under REAGAN, but was – and still is – encouraged by TAX BREAKS to companies which offshore jobs (and every time the Democrats have attempted to end what was supposed to be a TEMPORARY tax break, the GOP screams “TAX INCREASE”). Millions more have been lost because EMPLOYERS hire “undocumented workers”. I’m willing to bet that over the last 30 years, she has never once boycotted a manufacturer who offshored jobs (or even sent a letter or email to complain about their offshoring) – nor even refused to go to a local restaurant that was known for hiring undocumented workers. I’m even willing to bet that as local and state and even the Federal government began outsourcing jobs (and some of those jobs ended up being OFFSHORED, even at the Federal level: IRS OFFSHORES JOBS) that she never once complained (and may even have cheered on privatization). Heck – for the last couple of decades, even the military has enlisted resident aliens (which is why even a military ID card isn’t proof of citizenship).

Now that it impacts her directly others who are as blase as she was are somehow at fault – or as blind as she used to be to the facts of corporate greed. I suggest she ask for sympathy from those she ignored in the past!

guest

From the peak number of jobs, we are currently 2.4 million jobs less today.

Here are some of the facts under Obama’s economic policies

Job Growth Slowest Among Post-War Recessions
Half of Recent College Graduates Are Jobless
Ease of Starting a Business in the U.S. Fell from 4th to 13th according to a study by the World Bank
Percentage of Working Americans at a 30-Year Low
Job growth has been weak this year and over 60% of this growth has been part time.

The unemployment rate has decreased to 7.3% primarily because people are dropping out of the labor force. It’s like bragging you’ve lost weight by cutting off your leg.

Tbone

Well, when you’ve got one half of the politicians in DC actively trying to hurt jerb creation, is it any surprise that the recovery is slow?

guest

But the half that is hurting job creation is the Democrats. Raising taxes, increasing government dependency, increasing regulations, making it harder to start a business, increasing the cost of doing business with Obamacare are all impediments to job creation. But I’m guessing you don’t know that.

ags4ever

Yes, the half that is hurting job creation is the Democratic party, which wants to control all facets of the economy.

ags4ever

The Bureau of Labor Statistics job data (Data Series LNS12000000) show clearly that our current total number of people over the age of 16 employed in full time non-farm jobs is slightly more than 144 million people (144,170,000 in July 2013). The Highest number of people over the age of 16 employed in full time non-farm jobs in the US from February 2001 through January 2009 (Bush’s administration) was 146,595,000 in November of 2007. Thats about 2.5 million fewer people employed in full-time non-farm jobs nationwide under obama than were employed at the peak under G. W. Bush.

mrfxx

From an article titled “Meet one of the conservative advocacy groups behind the GOP’s government shutdown strategy” which ran yesterday on Yahoo (I could provide the URL, but every time I do lately it seems that my comments get “flushed” by Discus – Google for the title in quotes as shown and it should be the first on the list):
(start quote)
More than a week into the first government shutdown since the Bill Clinton era, groups such as Heritage Action on the right continue to urge lawmakers not to negotiate a measure to fully fund the government unless they include riders to effectively dismantle the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare.

“The only acceptable way out of this is some sort of deal that funds the federal government without funding Obamacare,” Needham told reporters at a breakfast on Wednesday sponsored by the Christian Science Monitor. “This is a fight about Obamacare, and the attention of Republicans and conservatives needs to be back on Obamacare and not on other ways out of this situation.”
(end quote)

Sort of makes one question how willing to negotiate the GOP is, doesn’t it? By the way – I do agree that if businesses get to bail on Obamacare for a year, so should individuals – but to attempt to essentially “thrust a stake through it’s heart” without finding out if it works as well as in Massachusetts – and according to “Romneycare vs. Obamacare: Lessons for today’s ‘shutdown’ debacle” which quoted a survey by the Massachusetts Medical Society ““Eighty-four percent of residents expressed satisfaction with the care
they received over the last year, including 56 percent who indicated
they are ‘very satisfied’ and 28 percent who are ‘somewhat satisfied,’”
the survey report states.”

johnrpack

Keep in mind that the GOP in Massashusetts would be considered flaming liberals everywhere else in the country.

peterpi

That’s too bad for the rest of the country.

ags4ever

so what you’re saying is that because you disagree with “Heritage Action”, everyone who disagrees with you is beyond the pale.

Where, exactly does the federal government get any authority to require any individual to buy any product, whether they want it or not, or whether they can afford it or not? I cannot find any authority in the Constitution for the federal government to force people to buy something they don’t want or cannot afford to have. Or to levy a tax or impose a fine or penalty for not buying that product.

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