Countries That Should not be Countries?

I’m not looking to offend anybody’s culture here, although nationalism might be threatened a bit.

So we’ve got all the classic, old, established nations, right? England, France, Poland, etc. But then we’ve got all these strange countries that have only really risen up recently. Which countries that exist today do you not believe should exist today?

Personally, I’m a bit puzzled on the existence of Belgium. I can’t seem to find much historical or cultural basis for wedging a country like that into the middle of The Netherlands and France. From what I’ve heard, it does not hold itself together as a country well. So what is it doing there, then? Why is the area not just divvied between The Netherlands and France?

I’m not puzzled by it, but I resent the existence of the state of Italy. Let’s backtrack a few hundred years. Let’s think of all those great Italian states. Venice? Yea, that place was awesome. Big trading republic that went head-to-head with the Ottomans. Owning awesome places like Cyprus, Dalmatia, Crete, and Istria. Genoa? The other crazy-awesome trading republic that owned some islands too. Milan? Ooh, yea. That place. It did pretty cool stuff too. Tuscany? Sure! Savoy and Naples? Why not? Now let’s think of Italy… What has Italy gotten done as a unified country? Well, they fought against us in both Great Wars, only to defect when we started winning (“We” meaning what’s now known as the “Free World”). And, um… I’m not sure what else. What has Italy done so far that it couldn’t do as those cool little states? What has Italy not done that it could have done as those cool little states?

What other countries exist today that you don’t think should exist as countries today? What other countries make no sense at all and should be removed and redrawn with your specifications?

while there definitely is a lot of historical and cultural basis for the existence of Belgium, the suggestion you brought up is discussed from time to time, like every few years or so. but the problem is that the capital of Belgium, Brussels, doesn’t fully belong to either the Flemish or Wallonian side, neither politically nor cultural or linguistic.

and that’s even considering the Netherlands and France want the extra provinces, and the Belgians are ready to give up their semi-independance by being swallowed up by a larger country. and there are some significant cultural/political differences between Flanders and the Netherlands.

Flanders is quite liberal, but just not quite like that.

and i have no idea what you’re on about regarding Italy. i think you just read up on history and got a little lost.

well, if the people in your house want to secede, they’ll have to be able to maintain themselves. how will they find work? how will they travel, surrounded by a foreign country? how will they keep themselves safe from thugs, gangs, militias or militaries?

i advocate the right to secession be adopted into the universal human rights.

Work’ll be no different than my side-business now, though not paying taxes on the income would be a plus. There’s a hectare of space to work with for growing crops. Travel just makes use of the same travel rights you always have when going from the roads of one country to another.

Self-defense with my mind? There are a plethora of lethal defense technologies I could put in place, if I wasn’t burdened by UK laws. PIR-activated directional microwave flash-friers come to mind, as do semi-autonomous networked sentry guns. Land mines are nasty buggers, and are essentially a buried pressure plate connected to a capacitor embedded in a charge-ignited explosive compound. Embed needler rounds in that, loaded with ricin, and you can pretty much guarantee a 100% kill-rate. None of them use uncommon materials either.

isn’t your business licensed under some or other country, with trade-warranties or what-not based on knowledge of that country’s complience to rules about that? (i don’t know anything about business)

if you’re no longer a British resident, you’re no longer guaranteed to be able to do business that way. if you license it under your own country, who’s going to trust it? especially with no official currency backing it.

traveling rights in other countries is the same thing. you only have the right to travel through the US or France or whereever, because UK citizens are allowed to do so by mutual agreements. if you’re no longer a UK citizen, you are no longer guaranteed by their diplomatic relations to be allowed to travel through those countries, and that would now include the UK.

and if you’re going to employ those kinds of weapons so close to your border with the UK (and of course, all of your border is that close to the UK), they can consider that a declaration of war… especially if any kind of “accident” were to happen.

I have all the materials here

oh yes? you have all the seeds, pesticides etc? you have power generators, water purifiers, hospital equipment, limitless landfill…

So if the majority of people in my house wish to secede, we should be allowed to do so? How large an area are you talking about?

True, and I did not specify how large of an area. Let me rephrase that. If a majority of people whom live in a given area that are able to comfortably support their nation want to do so, then they should be allowed to do so.

we do need some kind of global/universal government though, that governs the universal human rights. otherwise people may secede into countries where child-abuse is legal, for instance. these secessions would have to have the precondition that those universal human rights (and animal rights and environmental conservation) remain upheld.

True, and I did not specify how large of an area. Let me rephrase that. If a majority of people whom live in a given area that are able to comfortably support their nation want to do so, then they should be allowed to do so.

Yes, that’ll likely happen with Scotland in a few years time. Been a long-time coming, but long overdue.

From Omega’s post:

oh yes? you have all the seeds, pesticides etc? you have power generators, water purifiers, hospital equipment, limitless landfill…

I have power generation equipment, yes. Solar cells are useless here, and I don’t have wind turbines yet, but there are independent power generators on site. Water purification is easy to do, a gravel filter will hndle that just nicely. Boiling takes care of the rest.

Hospital equipment, for what purpose? I cannot see how that is factored into defense. Yes, I have a fair amount on-site, have to to deal with client needs, or brought home from work. It’s a very off-the-wall question though.

Why would anyone need limitless landfill? That too makes absolutely no sense. I have compost bins, and that takes care of a lot of waste. The wormery takes care of the rest.

Realistically the whole of Scotland will secede as a unit, solving the border problem nicely. But even if they did not, so long as border warnings are posted, if any fool wishes to hop into the country illegally, what happens to them is their own damn fault. A good example there would be Sealand, which has opened fire on vessels attempting to use their facilities without permission.

otherwise people may secede into countries where child-abuse is legal, for instance.

What if they do? Different countries have different rules based on the will of the populace. If you wish to instate a universal government, you are in fact decreeing that all countries be dissolved under your new one-world empire.

I thought you were all-for different groups doing whatever the hell they want, anyway? Conformity is the enemy, at least according to you.

If in 1947 they established the state of Israel in Massachusetts or in New England or somewhere (since Jews and Israelis and massive allies with Americans), we’d have probably 50 million more people living on Earth today. Not sure why they established it where it is apart from for religion (but they seemingly didn’t care about the plentisome lves that would end; not very Christian/Islamic/Jewish good religious attitude there if you ask me).

If in 1947 they established the state of Israel in Massachusetts or in New England or somewhere (since Jews and Israelis and massive allies with Americans), we’d have probably 50 million more people living on Earth today. Not sure why they established it where it is apart from for religion (but they seemingly didn’t care about the plentisome lves that would end; not very Christian/Islamic/Jewish good religious attitude there if you ask me).

But just to set the record straight, the early zionists had a bunch of different options for where they wanted to put their new country: parts of Uganda, the Soviet Union, or during WWII, Alaska . Jews and America were not massive allies in 1947; the Alaska plan failed largely because of US anti-semitism (and no jew really wanted to live in fucking alaska). They picked Israel because that’s the only place they had an actual legitimate claim via tradition to. Plus it was probably the least developed country in the ME at the time; I doubt anyone at the time knew the pandora’s box they were opening.

I don’t want to say much about the supposed religious hypocrisy of founding a country by killing people in the process (Europe did it for over 1500 years without feeling the need to explain itself), except to point out that religions, especially the Abrahamic religions, are not nice and fluffy movements for hipsters and other feel-good cretins. Despite pop culture suppositions, Jesus was not a flower-picking hippie, and Moses and Muhammed sure as hell weren’t. Scripturally there is no hypocrisy in justifying war through divine backing. It may not sit well with 21st century attitudes, but it was still fine in the mid-20th.

If in 1947 they established the state of Israel in Massachusetts or in New England or somewhere (since Jews and Israelis and massive allies with Americans), we’d have probably 50 million more people living on Earth today. Not sure why they established it where it is apart from for religion (but they seemingly didn’t care about the plentisome lves that would end; not very Christian/Islamic/Jewish good religious attitude there if you ask me).

Religion is a pretty big part of it . and besides its not like America would want to give its land away.

Otherwise people may secede into countries where child-abuse is legal, for instance

I’m fairly sure there is international treaties to protect children to prevent this from happening.

Treaties have to be signed. If a piece of a country secedes, they are (usually) considered a separate entity and any international agreements that the parent country signed are not legally binding on the secessionist country. Under Swat’s logic, if 10 million pedophiles got together and decided to secede from the US Thailand and found the glorious nation of Pedostan, they would be under no obligation to secure any kind of human rights for their citizens.

True, and I did not specify how large of an area. Let me rephrase that. If a majority of people whom live in a given area that are able to comfortably support their nation want to do so, then they should be allowed to do so.

Yes, that’ll likely happen with Scotland in a few years time. Been a long-time coming, but long overdue.

As long as that means the rest of the UK stops paying for Scotland then I have no objection, though I doubt it will. Pretty sure if Scotland seceded it would join Greece, Italy, Ireland and the like within a few years surviving on bailouts.

True, and I did not specify how large of an area. Let me rephrase that. If a majority of people whom live in a given area that are able to comfortably support their nation want to do so, then they should be allowed to do so.

Yes, that’ll likely happen with Scotland in a few years time. Been a long-time coming, but long overdue.

As long as that means the rest of the UK stops paying for Scotland then I have no objection, though I doubt it will. Pretty sure if Scotland seceded it would join Greece, Italy, Ireland and the like within a few years surviving on bailouts.

I don’t know why all these countries want to be ‘Independent’ (actually I do, sorta) at the cost of their economy and relationship with the country they are breaking off. In reality its much better for everyone if they just stay there. I mean its not like they are being forced to do slavery work against their wills. I really think that if countries want to break away it will be taking one step forward and two steps back.

I have power generation equipment, yes. Solar cells are useless here, and I don’t have wind turbines yet, but there are independent power generators on site. Water purification is easy to do, a gravel filter will hndle that just nicely. Boiling takes care of the rest.

Hospital equipment, for what purpose? I cannot see how that is factored into defense. Yes, I have a fair amount on-site, have to to deal with client needs, or brought home from work. It’s a very off-the-wall question though.

Why would anyone need limitless landfill? That too makes absolutely no sense. I have compost bins, and that takes care of a lot of waste. The wormery takes care of the rest.

doesn’t seem off-the-wall or “makes absolutely no sense” to me. if you want to be an independant nation that doesn’t need to rely on services of other nations, while still upholding international hazard and environmental standarts you’re gonna need them. but anyway, you’d be trapped at any rate, without permission to travel, unless they give you permission which they won’t do out of charity. it would be a completely unpracticable idea.

Realistically the whole of Scotland will secede as a unit, solving the border problem nicely. But even if they did not, so long as border warnings are posted, if any fool wishes to hop into the country illegally, what happens to them is their own damn fault. A good example there would be Sealand, which has opened fire on vessels attempting to use their facilities without permission.

uhm, no. if you want your little hectare to have sovereignty, what does it matter if you’re trapped in the UK or trapped in Scotland? Sealand is a wee bit bigger and a lot more remote than you live, i presume.

but aar, IF you are able to arrange all of this, then why shouldn’t you be able to secede?

What if they do? Different countries have different rules based on the will of the populace. If you wish to instate a universal government, you are in fact decreeing that all countries be dissolved under your new one-world empire.

I thought you were all-for different groups doing whatever the hell they want, anyway? Conformity is the enemy, at least according to you.

that assumes democracy. like stated down the thread, a whole bunch of pedophiles, like Nambla or Stichting Martijn could find a plot and secede. they take any children they have with them, make some more children with those… that will obviously be absolutely horrible and must at all cost be avoided. i shouldn’t have to explain that.

as for a universal government…we already have something of a global government: the UN. this is a confederate government, and does not dissolve the member countries. there’s also the EU, which is semi-federate, and still does not dissolve the member countries.

as i advocate teh right to secession be adopted into the human rights, of course being granted this right would have the precondition that human rights are also upheld by the benificiary. it will have to be that way, or else you will get what is already talked about.

On the flipside, 10,000,000 pedophiles forming their own separtist nation is a brilliant idea – because it gets them away from everywhere else.

Yea, we can’t let them adopt kids though.

what if they already have kids? plus, they can simply birth children…or kidnap them. lots of pedophiles have wives, some have children, some are women themselves.

Treaties have to be signed. If a piece of a country secedes, they are (usually) considered a separate entity and any international agreements that the parent country signed are not legally binding on the secessionist country

you can grant secession under preconditions of the signing of such treaties.

This thread has gotten way out of hand. If you want to discuss secession, please do it somewhere else. This thread is not about countries that don’t exist that should exist, this thread is about countries that do exist that shouldn’t exist.

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