(03-02-2014 03:40 PM)Free Wrote: In real life I own and operate a computer technician shop that specializes in custom designed gaming computers as well as other custom designed towers and laptops, and we also do computer repairs.

I was planning on getting a new PC this year; is there a discount for fellow TTA members?

Sure!

I can even ship it to you. I actually shipped one to Australia from here in Canada a few years ago lol

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.

I really like that response. I usually say there isn't ANY (emphasis on none) credible evidence for THEIR god, and a there's a mountain of evidence against any of the gods that have been proposed. I like to cut to the chase of their particular god and avoid arguing against a deist god to save time.

But I really like the simplicity of your approach, and agree it's less likely to offend where that is appropriate. Also provides an opening to talk about perhaps the greatest evil of theism, which is childhood indoctrination.

(03-02-2014 08:28 PM)Smercury44 Wrote: Free's point is that we are all born without knowledge of religion, or god. If he had been born into a society that knew nothing of god, and was therefore never taught this information, would you still consider him choosing to "be eternally separated from god"? What then would happen to his eternal soul upon death? Wouldn't have been his "choice" if you ask me

The choice given can only be made apart from the direct knowledge of the glory of God. Upon death and standing in Judgement knowledge of the glory of God is overwhelming, one does not get choices at that point. that is why we have been given this time and this life apart from the knowledge of God's glory.

It sounds like you're saying that those who are born, live, and die without knowledge of god will see his glory upon death, and be so overwhelmed, that they will obviously choose him (I assume that's what you mean by the glory of god being overwhelming, and having no choice at that point. Btw, can you please add a detailed source for this info?).

If this is what you're saying, what again is the point of teaching others about god now (using erroneous, and contradicting information that any sane person would be dubious of)? This seems to give people the chance to reject him, and spend eternity being tortured. Sounds like a bad plan.

(03-02-2014 05:00 PM)Smercury44 Wrote: Free, I really like how you handle the situation. You can logically point out where you are coming from without being insulting (unintentionally or otherwise).

Thanks.

I think it's the right way to go considering my position. I have many theists friends and acquaintances with whom I have had many religious discussions with, and whom do not lose any respect for me due to me being an atheist.

I know that many atheists take a more "militant" stand against theists, and put them on the defensive, but it is difficult to win the respect of a theist when you viciously attack something that is so entwined with their lives.

I think my position works very well in my circumstances.

I don't think most athiests actually "viciously attack". That's just how cultists take it. To an atheist it is just another discussion about logic and reason, while to a believer it is a tearing down of their coping mechanisms that they've erected to avoid thinking about the harsh realities of the universe.

Your way seems particularly adept at getting them thinking about their belief without them finding a reason to become insulted. Well done by you...

I think it's the right way to go considering my position. I have many theists friends and acquaintances with whom I have had many religious discussions with, and whom do not lose any respect for me due to me being an atheist.

I know that many atheists take a more "militant" stand against theists, and put them on the defensive, but it is difficult to win the respect of a theist when you viciously attack something that is so entwined with their lives.

I think my position works very well in my circumstances.

I don't think most athiests actually "viciously attack". That's just how cultists take it. To an atheist it is just another discussion about logic and reason, while to a believer it is a tearing down of their coping mechanisms that they've erected to avoid thinking about the harsh realities of the universe.

Your way seems particularly adept at getting them thinking about their belief without them finding a reason to become insulted. Well done by you...

(04-02-2014 01:40 AM)Cleanholio Wrote: I don't think most athiests actually "viciously attack". That's just how cultists take it. To an atheist it is just another discussion about logic and reason, while to a believer it is a tearing down of their coping mechanisms that they've erected to avoid thinking about the harsh realities of the universe.

Your way seems particularly adept at getting them thinking about their belief without them finding a reason to become insulted. Well done by you...

Another method similar to the OP is to ask them why they no longer believe in Santa Claus. They did once, they now don't . What changed?

They'll respond that they were told that it wasn't true and that every adult knows this.

You don't even need to respond to that, you could just shrug your shoulders and change the subject. If they persist though, ask whether they could ever believe in Santa Claus again. They'll say no and you say that it is the same for you and God. There are some things you know that you can't forget.