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I disagree as now azumarill forces enough switches where it can use sub punch with a great deal of success, fixing its terrible speed, and allowing it to arguable use huge power better as it can use waterfall, which is twice the power of aqua jet, meaning something is going to get hurt bad on by azumarill due to its coverage, unless its name is mega venusaur or tentacruel. I do agree sub belly drum is bad due to losing much needed coverage, standard sub is worth a mention as its harder to force out than choice band or belly drum.

Originally Posted by MetalSonic

Sub is good actually as mc just explained. Everyone and their dog will be expecting Aqua Jet and getting down a sub will more then likely prove really useful, but Leftovers...I dont know the element of surprise is also a pretty vital factor in that since CB is pretty fresh in everyones mind and Leftovers may just give it away too easily. The dude up there that posted Splash Plate as an item has the right idea! I'm not sure who's bringin up SubDrum though, that's a lil too much recoil for one or two good hits and then fainting. Not sure if Mega-Venus too popular this meta though.

Yeah, I was talking about Aqua Tail being inferior on the SubDrum set. Aqua Tail would be good on SubPunch or Sub + 3 Attacks.

All I know about this thing is, it's a MUCH bigger threat than it was last Gen.
It's typing is byfar one of the better type combinations for fairy that we have seen, since all three of the types it is weak to are painfully obvious and give you the chance to switch.
Anything Fairy w/ Huge Power is nothing to mess with.

And this semi bulky Pikablu is proof of such. I was never a big fan of it before, but now, my opinion on it is beginning to change.

Perhaps that's because it's on damn near every team. . .

Last edited by MuhFugginMoose; 10th November 2013 at 10:52 PM.

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Scolipede is leagues ahead of Ninjask. Scolipede's defenses are a lot better (it actually has decent enough physical bulk to take a hit now and then), it has significantly more power with its higher Atk stat and Megahorn, it has real coverage moves to pose an offensive threat, it only takes 25% damage from Stealth Rock as opposed to 50%, it absorbs Toxic Spikes for its teammates, it can offer both Baton Pass and Spikes support, and it abuses its own Swords Dance boosts way more effectively. It also has half the Rock weakness and trades Ice and Electric weaknesses for a much less common Psychic weakness. The only thing Ninjask has over Scolipede is more initial speed, but after Scolipede uses Protect the first time and gets to +1 Spe, that extra speed is ultimately irrelevant. The fact that Scolipede has more bulk, slightly better defensive typing, and half the Stealth Rock weakness actually makes it last even longer than Ninjask. I'd honesty much rather use Scolipede as a partner to Azumarill. Unlike Ninjask, Scolipede doesn't share any weaknesses with Azumarill (Ninjask and Azumarill share an Electric weakness), and it can take Poison moves aimed at Azumarill with ease.

If we're talking about being serious about baton passing set up to Azu, which I personally never cared for (But see the merit of the strategy), I can make one solid note as to why any speed boost at all is good. Other slow Priority users. Sucker Punch Megawile, Bullet Punch Sciz, and even another Azu, +1 or +2 speed could give you the edge you'd need, in which respect, use your favorite between Ninja and Peed, since they both get Speed Boost, SD, Sub, Baton. Ninja has more HP... by 1, and is faster, so really, it's a personal favorite based on that last move slot and what you want to put in it.
You're still left with all the same things to worry about though. With Play Rough, Aqua Jet, Super Power, why not play around with bounce?
*Obligatory commentary on how bad two turn moves are*
Yeah, but if they switch, you've got more hits to throw around before they can get their counter back out, unless they have Volt Switch on something that will easily survive a +2 Bounce AND out speed whatever you may throw at it (bonus if you paralyze it too).

Since Mega Mawile is only weak to Fire and Ground, Azumarill is perfect for Mawile. I want to keep him alive as much as possible, so I want to Belly Drum and get all that lost HP back through Leftovers and Aqua Ring. I split the EVs between Atk and SpDef because the Huge Power boost will be more than enough Attack, and the Special Defense boost lets me survive a super effective Grass/Electric/Poison move. I'm not sure if I want the priority Aqua Jet, or the more powerful Waterfall.

What do you guys think? Is having Aqua Ring and Leftovers too much? Should I invest more into Attack?
Anyway, I love how awesome Azumarill got this Gen and how few people even realize it!

I admire the Belly Drum/Aqua Jet strategy, but the easiet way to avoid it (and I have used this before, worked plenty of times before) is to throw out a Focus Sash'd Heliolisk running Dry Skin. Absorbs Aqua Jet, and if a Thunderbolt does not finish Azumaril, the Focus Sash will survive a Superpower to finish it off. Really no way it can lose, but often it does not work unless you hold out Heliolisk until the end and finish the others first.

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I admire the Belly Drum/Aqua Jet strategy, but the easiet way to avoid it (and I have used this before, worked plenty of times before) is to throw out a Focus Sash'd Heliolisk running Dry Skin. Absorbs Aqua Jet, and if a Thunderbolt does not finish Azumaril, the Focus Sash will survive a Superpower to finish it off. Really no way it can lose, but often it does not work unless you hold out Heliolisk until the end and finish the others first.

or you can use a trollshao (mienshao) with fake out (kings rock or razor fang), fling, and high jump kick

or you can use a trollshao (mienshao) with fake out (kings rock or razor fang), fling, and high jump kick

or you know, not us mienshao gets massacred by anything azumarill uses, while it resist hi jump kick, fling is really beyond laughable if you need a dark move that bad it gets knock off and pay back but has far better moves with stone edge, u turn, and hp ice. A kings rock or razor fang are useless as fake out always flinches, and a life orb works so much better because of regenerator its not even funny. Furthermore, with the defenses of a piece of paper, mienshao dies to basically anything azumarill uses, seeing as it now is weak to play rough, so if mienshao somehow lives, its force out right away.

As for Heliolisk, its more of a gimmack as if there are hazards, its dead, if it predicts wrong, its crippled for the rest of the match, and is overall inferior to other pokemon such as rotom wash that can live a hit, if its physically defensive its a 3hko, and retaliate back, or use mega venusaur that can check a lot of other threats such as rotom wash, and bait in and check other threats such as heatran, mamoswine, and genesect.

or you know, not us mienshao gets massacred by anything azumarill uses, while it resist hi jump kick, fling is really beyond laughable if you need a dark move that bad it gets knock off and pay back but has far better moves with stone edge, u turn, and hp ice. A kings rock or razor fang are useless as fake out always flinches, and a life orb works so much better because of regenerator its not even funny. Furthermore, with the defenses of a piece of paper, mienshao dies to basically anything azumarill uses, seeing as it now is weak to play rough, so if mienshao somehow lives, its force out right away.

As for Heliolisk, its more of a gimmack as if there are hazards, its dead, if it predicts wrong, its crippled for the rest of the match, and is overall inferior to other pokemon such as rotom wash that can live a hit, if its physically defensive its a 3hko, and retaliate back, or use mega venusaur that can check a lot of other threats such as rotom wash, and bait in and check other threats such as heatran, mamoswine, and genesect.

high jump kick is to just seal the deal with belly drum, but if it ko's azumarill, that will be even better.
after one fake out, fling, AND high jump kick... im pretty sure that belly drum will fail...

high jump kick is to just seal the deal with belly drum, but if it ko's azumarill, that will be even better.
after one fake out, fling, AND high jump kick... im pretty sure that belly drum will fail...

Except the fact that most azumarills arent belly drum, and besides, its resisted, and than either KOes or cripples mienshao with aqua jet and if it isnt, your dead, there really is no way mienshao comes out on top unless your opponent is stupid, as fake out means you bring it in on or at the same time as azumarill, coming in it already has belly drum set up and your dead, even coming in at the same time, your most likely dead, and any other sets destroy mienshao like its azumarills job

I admire the Belly Drum/Aqua Jet strategy, but the easiet way to avoid it (and I have used this before, worked plenty of times before) is to throw out a Focus Sash'd Heliolisk running Dry Skin. Absorbs Aqua Jet, and if a Thunderbolt does not finish Azumaril, the Focus Sash will survive a Superpower to finish it off. Really no way it can lose, but often it does not work unless you hold out Heliolisk until the end and finish the others first.

Seeing as Belly Drum halves Azumarill's health, just about any STAB Thunderbolt in the game will finish it. This makes anything immune/resistant to Aqua Jet with a decently powered Electric attack (including Heliolisk) a good check to Azumarill.

I wouldn't use the Sub/BD set, ever. Why use Sub at all, does anyone know how many Pokes will let you sub on their face by merit of crap offences? Then, you have to account for entry hazards... Just use the extra coverage move, which is much needed over the DS Azu gets, especially when it wants to run Aqua Jet all the time.

Shields you from status. Allows for almost foolproof use of Focus Punch. Makes Azumarill harder to revenge kill. Substitute is awesome, and since Azumarill can force switches due to its wide coverage, high power, and handy resistances/bulk, it's not hard to get an opportunity to throw up a Substitute.

Substitute and Belly Drum together is another story though, but this is due to the incredibly high risk nature of Belly Drum.

Shields you from status. Allows for almost foolproof use of Focus Punch. Makes Azumarill harder to revenge kill. Substitute is awesome, and since Azumarill can force switches due to its wide coverage, high power, and handy resistances/bulk, it's not hard to get an opportunity to throw up a Substitute.

Substitute and Belly Drum together is another story though, but this is due to the incredibly high risk nature of Belly Drum.

Agreed. Substitute Azumarill is one of the best, most versatile sets it can run. It eases prediction with Focus Punch and status. It can be used on switch-outs to safely scout what they will do. Azumarill has the ability to hit most of its switchins hard from behind a Substitute. Since most Azumarill counters use strong priority to hit before its Aqua Jet or inflict burns to cripple it, Substitute is one of the best tools in the bunny's arsenal.

SubDrumming sucks. Don't do it. Seriously. It goes against everything we know and love about Azumarill. It eliminates the strong, bulky aspect of Zuzu and only serves to self-inflict more damage. Sure, you can get a surprise KO, but there is no point in SubDrumming when you can just run Lum Berry or Sitrus Berry to cure status and restore health respectively.

Shields you from status. Allows for almost foolproof use of Focus Punch. Makes Azumarill harder to revenge kill. Substitute is awesome, and since Azumarill can force switches due to its wide coverage, high power, and handy resistances/bulk, it's not hard to get an opportunity to throw up a Substitute.

Oh, I see. I was really just talking about SubDrum sets, but I phrased it incorrectly. Azumarill does scare out a lot of Pokes, so Sub is viable by itself. Using anything but three attacks with it might not be preferred, of course.

Heliolisk is a great Pokemon, but no Azumarill is going to Aqua Jet a Heliolisk if it could be carrying Dry Skin; so you absorb Aqua Jet/Waterfall/Aqua Tail on the Switch in. That requires correct prediction on your part, and slightly less than correct on your opponent's. Mega Venusaur, on the other hand, comes in on any attacks and laughs at Azumarill; even normal Venusaur is a more fool proof check IMO.

Heliolisk is a great Pokemon, but no Azumarill is going to Aqua Jet a Heliolisk if it could be carrying Dry Skin; so you absorb Aqua Jet/Waterfall/Aqua Tail on the Switch in. That requires correct prediction on your part, and slightly less than correct on your opponent's. Mega Venusaur, on the other hand, comes in on any attacks and laughs at Azumarill; even normal Venusaur is a more fool proof counter IMO.

I get that dude, but azumarill cannot revenge kill (which azumarill is VERY good at with aqua jet) heliolisk, so it will have to resort to superpower, fail when helio endures 1 hp (to which aqua jet is out of the picture) then I finish it off with an electric type move

No one is going to come in with Azumarill against Heliolisk for a Revenge Kill. Heliolisk is faster, could potentially ignore priority, and can put Azumarill in the ground. the only way your plan works is switching Heliolisk into Azumarill, and that requires a large number of things to go your way:

1) There must be no Spikes/Rocks/TSpikes/Sand/Hail in play.
2) Azumarill must be using Aqua Jet the turn you switch Heliolisk in.
2a) If not, Heliolisk must be your Focus Sash holder on the team, which makes no sense if he is only a Azumarill counter on the switch in (which is a ridiculously small niche for a 1/6th of your team).
3) Azumarill must then stay in against Heliolisk.

That is a pretty hard set of conditions that need to be met. Compared to Venasaur; whose conditions for checking Azumarill are:

1) You must switch in Venusaur.

He also has great options outside of a one dimensional "This is my Azumarill check" role.