Under Obama's Proposal, Top Tax Rates Would Actually Be Higher Than Clinton-Era Levelshttp://www.businessinsider.com/unearned-income-medicare-contribution-tax-2012-12/comments
en-usWed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 -0500Tue, 31 Mar 2015 14:28:26 -0400Mamta Badkarhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c8bc0beab8ea6b74000013Derrick GibsonWed, 12 Dec 2012 12:16:59 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c8bc0beab8ea6b74000013
You cannot combine a proposal with law that is already in place. The proposal is to return the income tax rates for those earning more than $200,000 ($250,000 for families) to the levels of the Clinton era. That the Affordable Care Act has already put in place a payroll tax increase for those in the same bracket was legislated back in 2010.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c763ca6bb3f7cf5b000018BeaverdaleJasonTue, 11 Dec 2012 11:48:10 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c763ca6bb3f7cf5b000018
Notice there is no mention of spending cuts or even a spending freeze even from the Republicans. No one wants to mention that all we have to do is freeze spending levels at those pre-Obama and we will be out of our current bankrupt state in no time.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6d16aeab8ea1931000007marckedTue, 11 Dec 2012 01:23:38 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6d16aeab8ea1931000007
You are spot on. What else is important to note is the nature of government. That wealth tax will continue to morph until most of us will pay a redundant tax on our savings and assets. It is insightful to google the history of the AMT tax. It was originally intended to tax approximately 20,000 people. Today, that number is estimated to be 42 million because congress has continuously lowered the AMT threshold to the point where has has essentially become an additional and automatic tax for most of the middle class.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6bcbb6bb3f7ea1f00001bMiz from Long IzMon, 10 Dec 2012 23:55:23 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6bcbb6bb3f7ea1f00001b
New rule. If you pay no federal income tax and own an iPhone, flat screen TV or an Xbox, you are barred from saying the rich don't pay their fair share.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6bc51ecad048d34000028Miz from Long IzMon, 10 Dec 2012 23:53:37 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6bc51ecad048d34000028
America. The only country in the world where those struggling so much they need government assistance and all sorts of tax breaks, can complain about it using a $300 smart phone on an $80/data plan. After they are done playing on their xBox.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6bb8d6bb3f7ea1f00000eMiz from Long IzMon, 10 Dec 2012 23:50:21 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6bb8d6bb3f7ea1f00000e
Aaand and this is a horrible MSNBC argument. Sales tax: who spends more? the wealthy, so who pays more in sales taxes that support state and local government and services. Most places, food and medicine and in many places clothing purchases under a certain amount are tax free. Who does that benefit more? Property/school taxes... Who owns bigger more expensive homes? I pay 2x as much than my neighbor in property taxes. I have 2 kids in school, he has 3. ...Gas taxes fund the roads and highways we all use equally. So half the country pays no federal income tax. What should that number be? 70% 90%.what would make you happy?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6b8eb6bb3f7d714000038Miz from Long IzMon, 10 Dec 2012 23:39:07 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6b8eb6bb3f7d714000038
Aaaaandwe turn to MSNBC. @Printus your argument has been made by plenty of liberals before to justify taxes on higher earners. But let me break it down for you a little better. Employment taxes: everyone pays that equally and it funds YOUR. Social Security benefits. More you pay in, more you get later on. Sounds fair to me. Oh The reason they are capped is that benefits are capped. You don't want the rich getting payments they don't need when they are old. Yhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6b7a5eab8ea9e7400000eMiz from Long IzMon, 10 Dec 2012 23:33:41 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6b7a5eab8ea9e7400000e
That's exactly right. The people who make that kind of money for the most part live in areas where it's not a lot of money. A single guy living in Des Moines making 100k a year will end of way better off than a family of 4 living in NYC making 300k a year. Chuck Shumer agrees. He wants tax increases on 1mm and up.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c69bfb6bb3f70462000015Freddie Mercury FanMon, 10 Dec 2012 21:35:39 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c69bfb6bb3f70462000015
A wealth tax is unfair because the wealthy already paid taxes on that money. The "wealth" was what was left over after Uncle Sam got his take. How is that fair to tax that money again? You are punishing people who save, invest wisely, and are successful.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c69b4f6bb3f7056200001ajoanieandchachiMon, 10 Dec 2012 21:32:47 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c69b4f6bb3f7056200001a
He can have my $29 dividend. Obama, the first president in history to run on higher taxes and win. Goes to show that 98% of Americans don't have the confidence to ever attain a $200K salary. Where are all the dreamers in this country?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c696476bb3f78259000006marckedMon, 10 Dec 2012 21:11:19 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c696476bb3f78259000006
Technically, that is theft. Obama's tax solution is akin to putting a bigger band-aid on a gun wound. He seems to only medicates the problem instead of curing the problem. California and the UK now suffer the anticipated and historical outcome of over taxation. Math and morals always win in the end-game. IMO, this "tax the rich" movement is an attitude; not base don aptitude. The numbers will trump this passionate agenda and result in greater economic harm to those very followers. As for me, I am far from rich, I despise the abuses perpetrated by the uber wealthy, but I am pragmatic enough to understand that our problem is a confluence of bad policies and mismanagement from numerous administrations and today's "wealthy" label is a misdirected agenda of this administration and congress--generally speaking.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c692ad6bb3f7c35000000elark williamsMon, 10 Dec 2012 20:55:57 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c692ad6bb3f7c35000000e
Apparently you don't live where most people make that kind of money. Try getting to be a millionaire when you live in NY or SF.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c68d9a6bb3f7f54500000dFritz PfisterMon, 10 Dec 2012 20:34:18 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c68d9a6bb3f7f54500000d
Capital gains up. Death taxes up. Dividend taxes up. Wealth creation down. Hiring down. Obamacare taxes up (by $1 trillion). Cost of living up. Wages down. Consumer spending down. Consumer confidence down. Unemployment down, due to 540,000 falling out of workforce. Long term unemployed steady at 4.8 million. Unemployed steady at 12 million. Obama's solution? Increase spending, raise taxes. Result? Proves Einstein 100% correct.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6896569bedd3c23000011flaunttnualfMon, 10 Dec 2012 20:16:21 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6896569bedd3c23000011
ALL taxation is theft, period. Sickening seeing public discussions of who should get robbed and how. SICK society!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6883deab8ea9313000016marckedMon, 10 Dec 2012 20:11:25 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6883deab8ea9313000016
Obama and his academic staff are too misguided to know much about the Laffer Curve. Taxes have a counter benefit to the economy after a certain percentage. This has been proven time again and it is currently in play in California and the UK. The street produces money and the government takes money (it does not product squat.) If tax rates are zero, then government revenue will be zero. If tax rates are 100%, then government revenue will also be zero. When taxes are too high, it becomes a drain on the economy which produces less taxable dollars as well it becomes a physiological hindrance to investments and all sorts of risk taking. Instead of easy and lazy tax increases, the government should actually do something worthwhile by rewriting the tax code (eliminating or limiting deductions, loopholes and subsidies) and cutting excessive spending and redundant services. You would be outraged if you realized the number of government services that are still in operation (over the past 90 years) after their purpose has been achieved and also how many services have redundant objectives yet are individually budgeted. They come ... but they don't go. As Jean Baptiste Colbert once said, "The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to get the most feathers with the least hissing.”http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c682e5eab8eae80b000003Gary AndersonMon, 10 Dec 2012 19:48:37 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c682e5eab8eae80b000003
Then Papa, why can't we have a wealth tax? That would solve everything. It doesn't even have to be yearly.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c68296ecad04df4f000001Oh...LookMon, 10 Dec 2012 19:47:18 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c68296ecad04df4f000001
The jealousy duo of john1066 (whoever he is) and Gary Anderson (props for at least being somewhat transparent, but you are still a douche) are back in full force to make sure we get that 8% of the deficit next year from these "rich" folks who can still afford something that resembles a middle class life.
You guys are winning, that is for sure. America, we are losing. Thanks for nothing, Jealousy duo.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6823a6bb3f74f3000001cMCallawayMon, 10 Dec 2012 19:45:46 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6823a6bb3f74f3000001c
You mean the President Lied to us AGAIN??
Oh No!! Say it ain't so!!!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c68148ecad048a4b000007LosingRmoneySlogansMon, 10 Dec 2012 19:41:44 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c68148ecad048a4b000007
Rich people voted for Obama too.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c67d466bb3f73e2e000008MamaSwampMon, 10 Dec 2012 19:24:38 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c67d466bb3f73e2e000008
Unless individuals making $200,000 a year are burning their cash on everything except assets it won't take long for them to be millionaires.
Millionaires have never ever been defined as those with a million dollar annual income. It's always been about net worth.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c67d3aeab8ea2d74000034DMGMon, 10 Dec 2012 19:24:26 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c67d3aeab8ea2d74000034
If the Republicans don't want taxes to rise without corresponding spending cuts they need to negotiate and get some spending cuts on the table. The vast majority of people realize we need BOTH tax increases AND spending cuts...and we needed them ten years ago, if not earlier. This something for nothing, I'm going to get mine economy has to end for BOTH the rich and the poor!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c67d056bb3f7ae27000009Nick L NYCMon, 10 Dec 2012 19:23:33 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c67d056bb3f7ae27000009
This is just all overhyped hoopla, nothing is going to happen. The most is maybe some deductions being phased out but most people won't pay anymore taxes and all the deductions (that are way greater now than 10 years ago) will likely stay -- you know like $1,000 credit for every child you have, the Earned Income Credit for lower middle class workers etc..http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c677676bb3f74f21000010mlambMon, 10 Dec 2012 18:59:35 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c677676bb3f74f21000010
I've been saying this for months re: "going back to the Clinton era": $250k in 1993 is NOT $250k in 2012. I'm amazed that pundits - who I assume are paid for their opinions - fail to ever mention this.
Also: if I'm making $200k per year (keep in mind this is a gross, pre-tax and living expenses figure), it's not like I am going to have oodles of excess cash to toss around. If I choose to save and invest my money, why should I get penalized further?
To all the liberals out there: party politics aside, how is this a good plan? More taxes on the middle class and no spending cuts. This is a recipe for disaster.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c674ca69bedd4472000007PapaSwampMon, 10 Dec 2012 18:48:26 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c674ca69bedd4472000007
Here is the problem. The uber wealthy don't make their money via wages...it's investments. the people who will be hurt the most are those making $200,000 or more ($250,000 for families). The super wealthy will still probably see mild tax increases...it's the professionals and small business owners that will get slammed. They will experience 39-42% tax levels. So do you think they will be able to spend more? Buy a new home? Invest more in their company?
I don't think people realize the impact coming....it will be quite interesting when it hits and those first paychecks come in in 2013.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c673576bb3f7a118000012Printus MaximusMon, 10 Dec 2012 18:42:15 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c673576bb3f7a118000012
"The bottom 50% don't pay taxes in the US..."
They pay employment taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, school taxes, gasoline taxes, ...
You may now resume your regular FOX programming.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c67138eab8eab65d00001aPrintus MaximusMon, 10 Dec 2012 18:33:12 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c67138eab8eab65d00001a
"Savings by definition, are redeployed by banks, companies and more as working capital to hire and build."
With $1.5T in excess reserves and a youth unemployment rate of +20%, those banks of which you speak are falling all over themselves "redeploying those savings to hire and build".
Do you understand the income tax system? i.e capital gains are NOT taxed until the gain is realized (i.e. the asset is sold at a gain). If you don't want to pay the tax, don't sell the asset.
Now, for the bonus question:
What is the purpose of personal savings?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c66e006bb3f7111000000dPapaSwampMon, 10 Dec 2012 18:19:28 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c66e006bb3f7111000000d
You are correct. The problem is...he won on telling people he was going after the millionaires. Individuals making $200,000 and families making $250,000 aren't millionaires.... They are the small business owners and the few with any capital left to invest in real estate, company expansion, etc.. I don't think people realize what is about to happen.
The uber wealthy can just offshore their wealth and even themselves....the upper middle class can do no such thing. They are about to get hammered with not only a tax increase on wages, but also investment and savings. The economy will contract and we will see a continued increase in unemployment claims as well as a degrade in the E/PR and participation rate. The dependence on a smaller and smaller group to shoulder the tax burden results in a collapse of the system.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c66d0569bedd6959000015black swanMon, 10 Dec 2012 18:15:17 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c66d0569bedd6959000015
Gary, try as I might, I just can't feel good about my taxes going to pay for these people:
"Somali ‘Refugees’ Riot Over Subsidized Housing in Columbus Ohio"
<a href="http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/somali-refugees-riot-over-subsidized-housing-in-columbus-ohio/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" >http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/somali-refugees-riot-over-subsidized-housing-in-columbus-ohio/</a>
How about you?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c66c5969bedd6c59000017BatmanMon, 10 Dec 2012 18:12:25 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c66c5969bedd6c59000017
Leave it will.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c667126bb3f7cd7e00000esfperson2000jkjoiuoMon, 10 Dec 2012 17:49:54 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c667126bb3f7cd7e00000e
Your comment literally made me laugh. If you hate the poor and hate the middle class, then yes, let the money run. HAHA F-em!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c666b96bb3f7107f000015MarkjkjkkjMon, 10 Dec 2012 17:48:25 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c666b96bb3f7107f000015
The new rhetoric is all...memes -- and you clearly excel at it. Anyway, no, the middle class isn't defined as those who make more than 200k (unless you live in some extremely high cost areas like NYC). Do you have any serious questions? I stand by my point.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c66613ecad04b219000009sfperson2000jkjoiuoMon, 10 Dec 2012 17:45:39 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c66613ecad04b219000009
There is plenty of money pumped out by the Federal Government to produce demand. It is currently over 20% of the economy. And to argue that money investment would be better spent buying imported goods from China is asinine.
Sure.. with WalMart now garnering a full 10% of all US retail sales, I suppose more demand will help them hire more greeters to help sell more Chinese goods so they can pollute the air with soot over the Pacific and have it fall in my home city of San Francisco.
John--are you really young? Or somewhat naive?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c665e769bedd1f4b00000fGary AndersonMon, 10 Dec 2012 17:44:55 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c665e769bedd1f4b00000f
Markjkjkkj. Well I hope I got that right. The middle class in your plan must be folks who make over 200k? You aren't Mitt in disguise are you?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c665b269bedde64d00000cCManSBMon, 10 Dec 2012 17:44:02 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c665b269bedde64d00000c
How did all those tax increases work for California. Tax Revenues are down over 15% from last year. Look to California to lead the way, because as taxes increased so did government spending. Dept of Social Services spent over $1 Billion more then last year. Not to mention the extra $55 million that State parks had hidden away, paying out vacation bonuses while shutting down parks. Hows Democrat State Treasurer Bill Lockyer doing, oh that's right he's been dealing with his wife's meth addiction, sex tape and extortion. He might be a little to distracted to keep an eye on everything. (a Republican would have been forced to resign).
Oh also, don't forget AB32 California Cap and Trade, the state is counting on the billions in revenue form that program. I'm sure no businesses are going to leave the state.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c66556eab8eafa48000007Gary AndersonMon, 10 Dec 2012 17:42:30 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c66556eab8eafa48000007
Let capital leave if it doesn't like it. Let hot money make money off someone else but US main street.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c66511ecad049415000010Gary AndersonMon, 10 Dec 2012 17:41:21 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c66511ecad049415000010
Lol, Mamta, savers? I didn't know that savers received high levels of cap gains and dividend earnings. I thought savers just, well, saved.
Thanks for pointing that out John.
Well, one thing we know. This will not "restore confidence." :)))http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6646cecad04541500000bsfperson2000jkjoiuoMon, 10 Dec 2012 17:38:36 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6646cecad04541500000b
The bottom 50% don't pay taxes in the US... they get tax credits (i.e. cash back). What do you do for a living Propaganda that you don't know that? Are you super rich? Is that why?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6642369beddf64a000007sfperson2000jkjoiuoMon, 10 Dec 2012 17:37:23 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6642369beddf64a000007
Don't forget that most interest income is from bonds funding public infrastructure and/or corporate development. You are truly unaware, or perhaps stupid?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c663a1eab8ea3541000014john1066Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:35:13 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c663a1eab8ea3541000014
"Savings by definition, are redeployed by banks, companies and more as working capital to hire and build.
Regardless, you are not taxed starting at 200k -- it is income + savings.... so if you make 200k and make 10k in interest, that gets taxed at the higher rate."
And here we have another one who is worshipping to the alter of supply. Guess what? There is a thing called demand in the economy too. Folks need to stop thinking about economic with only half the picture.
No demand means all investments are bad investments.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6636b69bedd574500000ePropagandaMon, 10 Dec 2012 17:34:19 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6636b69bedd574500000e
The 1% will come up with just about any excuse not to pay taxes. Now it is because the tax "punishes savers". Crazy. When will they realize that you can only squeeze so much from the poor so either you need to pay more than your fair share, or prepare to see this nation fall apart.
Would you really want to be a billionaire in a nation where every city looks like Detroit?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6635b6bb3f7fb7c000001What a scamMon, 10 Dec 2012 17:34:03 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6635b6bb3f7fb7c000001
Only in America can a politician take a blank check and pay for entitlement programs for such a large population in order to win an election, then go back and force those who didn't vote for him to cover his ass-some great Uniter!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c662ececad045b15000006markhjiouiouMon, 10 Dec 2012 17:32:12 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c662ececad045b15000006
Hoarding? Seriously? Do you not understand the first principles of economy? Did you ever study it? You are an example of why the US will fail shortly.
Savings by definition, are redeployed by banks, companies and more as working capital to hire and build.
Regardless, you are not taxed starting at 200k -- it is income + savings.... so if you make 200k and make 10k in interest, that gets taxed at the higher rate.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c66237ecad043a13000017MarkjkjkkjMon, 10 Dec 2012 17:29:11 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c66237ecad043a13000017
I just can't understand why so many people voted against their economic self-interest. The middle class is done with Obama. Sad really.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6622969bedd5445000006Printus MaximusMon, 10 Dec 2012 17:28:57 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c6622969bedd5445000006
You need a lot of savings to earn $200k in interest @ 0.5% -- thx Bennie.
At that point its not savings, it's hoarding.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c660d7eab8eab03b000027john1066Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:23:19 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c660d7eab8eab03b000027
So now we have gone from Trickle Down to Job Creators to "savers".
Hey look I saved $1.8 billion dollars. Sorry but your taxes are going up.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c65d636bb3f7c371000005jpMon, 10 Dec 2012 17:08:35 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c65d636bb3f7c371000005
How difficult is it to get the 98% of the voters to vote in favor of raising the taxes of the other 2%?
That's what just happened in a California referendum as well. Funny thing is that it can only happen so many times before that capital leaves the state or country. Then who picks up the tab?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c65a2669bedd1834000004Arshile GorkyMon, 10 Dec 2012 16:54:46 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/50c65a2669bedd1834000004
Obama ran and won on increasing taxes.
1980's are over. Reaganism is over.
As Joseph Campbell said "values are dynamic". If you try to make your values persist past their time you are in for one big exercise in frustration.