War Hero

I think there are quite a few people out here who would take exception to the word 'vain' - there has been a genuine improvement for a lot of people in the provinces run and now handed back by the UK forces. In many cases the old tribal system and hierachy that exisited pre Saddam has kicked in and had a major influence in providing stability - the insurgeants(?) , who are quite often non local, have been told to go and 'insurge' elsewhere. Having said all that - what will happen when we do start to leave is a very good question. The UK vacated one FOB without a true handover and within 24hrs the place had been completely looted..

I thought the sceptics would not be happy with us going as they start a temporary force surge (the extra 20,000 troops are part of a planned roulement change - they've just made the handover 3 months long..) but actually they see it as a success and a vindication of policy. However the problems in Baghdad are completely different to those in the SE...

War Hero

Sorry SF but I am of the opinion that whatever we do and however long we stay civil war is inevitable. It is against the Koran to take the life of another Muslim, this is happenning daily. It is not going to change. For one I do not wish to see any more reported deaths or injuries to British servicemen. The sooner we pull out and let the Muslim population sort out their own problems the better. The money we are spending on this war would be better spent on finding cheap non fossil fuel alternatives for our energy needs.

MIA

The "endgame" will come from the next warlord who take control of Iraq, we can try and help but we have to leave at some point (hopefully) and democracy will fail and they will return to a dictatorship with a tough guy in charge. Might as well pull out now really, but I can't see it.

War Hero

I agree with Ling, and will add that, the Rags will always follow the man with the biggest stick. Its in their nature JMHO
Bring our troops home now, but lets give them a hearty thank you and a warm welcome home.
RoofRat

Lantern Swinger

I would like to know will the units, that are pulled out of Iraq, after being rested be goimg to Afghanistan or even worse be going into Iran :cry:
The Russians a few years ago pulled their troops out of Eastern Europe and sent them to Afghanistan!
I don't trust this government one little bit, I didn't vote for them and I never will :smile:

War Hero

Going to Iran? Do you know something that the rest of the British army doesnt?.I there is know way on earth British Forces will be involved in any ''attack'' on Iran. This is the press getting carried away yet again.

As for resting soldiers before going to Afganistan, of course they egt rested. You dont just send soldiers where ever at the drop of a hat. Units are part of brigades ,so generally the Brigades know well in adavnce when and where there tours are.Of course prior to deploying they are involved in months of UK/Germany based training.

As for the Endgame in Iraq ,well as soon as the Iraqi security services/army have got a grip on there job and all the provinces have been handed back to Iraqi control ,our job is done in Iraq and we can come home.

War Hero

My head's spinning again! Panorama interview on Monday night with parents of dead soldiers for every year of this bloody war-now TB will pull them out? Prince Harry is suppose to go? Oh I don't know let's just bring the troops home instread, Ok Charlie you walking advertisement for republicism? Who knows anymore really!! I just from the bottom of my being, that this is going to happen!

War Hero

Sorry SF but I am of the opinion that whatever we do and however long we stay civil war is inevitable. It is against the Koran to take the life of another Muslim, this is happenning daily. It is not going to change. For one I do not wish to see any more reported deaths or injuries to British servicemen. The sooner we pull out and let the Muslim population sort out their own problems the better. The money we are spending on this war would be better spent on finding cheap non fossil fuel alternatives for our energy needs.

Don't have any issues with what you say here Slim - and I don't think we are on opposing views. We are in the position of saying "stop shooting at us/each other and we will go away" What happens then is anyone's guess although I think you are unfortunately near the mark. The original point I was trying to make was over the use of the word 'vain'. Our presence has made a positive difference to a significant portion of the population. Your comment about the price paid for the positive and its continued affordability hits the nail on the head.

War Hero

SF
I consider myself one of the lucky ones. I left long before this stupid conflict started. I was in for the Falkland war but spent my time at Aberporth on 29JSTU a sea skua trials flight. I remember vividly reports of friends being killed or injured. This was a conflict that I was behind 100% , however after the war was won it was reported that had Maggie acted earlier it would never have happenned. The Falklands however was our war. The Iraq war is not. Once again after the war it is reported that the British public were mislead by lies and half truths. Why are we in a country where the indigenous population have no respect for our service personnel or our religion.
We should never have gone in, however it is time to get out and leave the population to their own devices. I would rather 10,000 Iraqi's died than one more British soldier

GCM

quote="Lingyai"]The "endgame" will come from the next warlord who take control of Iraq, we can try and help but we have to leave at some point (hopefully) and democracy will fail and they will return to a dictatorship with a tough guy in charge. Might as well pull out now really, but I can't see it.[/quote]

Deeps said:

"As for the Endgame in Iraq ,well as soon as the Iraqi security services/army have got a grip on there job and all the provinces have been handed back to Iraqi control ,our job is done in Iraq and we can come home."

I am sorry deeps and I know you are in the Brownies but do you really think that our presence is going to make any difference to what happens in Iraq when we and in particular the yanks leave. It will go the way Lingy states and if you cannot see that then you are to close to the problem and need to step back and look at it with civvy specs on. I know that is not what servicemen stationed in the hot and sandy places want to be told but it is the truth of the matter. Their presence in Iraq is in VAIN and will make no difference in the long run to the lives of the locals.

War Hero

Crikey Slim, where do we start.... elected governments acting on behalf of people who didn't vote for them.... I'm sure I heard some startling statistic about more people voting in reality shows than did the General Election.. world police...by not acting do we sanction genocide in the form of CW attacks etc etc.. would we have said the same about Hitler and the jews... there is a whole ethical and moral debate here which has been thrashed to death. The whys and wherefores are a bit irrelevant as we are where we have ended up and I have absolutely no disagreement with your view

Anyhoo - I also have no disagreement with what you are saying - its time to go, and its going to happen. What people should take note of is that its happening as a planned event as a result of achieving a task, not as a reaction to being driven out by the insurgants, a point I think worth noting.

War Hero

SF
I think that though it may look like a planned event it is going to happen more quickly than originally planned.
Reasons
1.Bush no longer has control of either house.
2.Blair will want out first so he doesn't look too much like Bush's puppet.

War Hero

Dead right. I am surprised at how well the US takes our withdrawal as some of the US commentators have said that it might be embarrassing for dubya to be increasing troop scales whilst we are reducing and we wouldn't have been surprised to see some delay in our withdrawal - but apparently all is hunky dory. Which is nice. The yank surge is in fact a delayed handover between units and will only last 3 months. The interestig thing is that although Bush has lost control, as CinC he can go ahead and the only way they can stop him is to vote to stop the cash - which according to my us colleagues is such a severe step that it is unlikely to be taken. My view as an embed Brit? My in tray has so many pieces of paper with 'draw down' and 'handover to locals' on them that I think Bush will convince his government that he too is in the end game and allow him to do what your news clip says. Whichever way it happens it is a fascinating place to be right now - as long as they don't make me climb a ladder to a helo from the Embassy roof!!

War Hero

Is it sickening ? Iraqi's are killing Iraqi's, the British soldier is piggy in the middle. He is there to keep the peace not to be a target for groups who are settling old scores. This is being carried out in the name of Islam.
My statement stands.

MIA

Is it sickening ? Iraqi's are killing Iraqi's, the British soldier is piggy in the middle. He is there to keep the peace not to be a target for groups who are settling old scores. This is being carried out in the name of Islam.
My statement stands.

They are being killed for power, religion is merely the window dressing, just as it was in Ireland and many other places. The killers know they cannot win power through the ballot box so they kill and terrorise, to frighten people into giving them power in return for peace.

War Hero

Maxi
Many wars are fought in the name of religion. However what I fail to understand is that these suicide bombers know the Koran and are still conned into believing that they die for a cause and will be given a place in heaven and lots of virgins. Ireland was a similar situation, turf warfare in the name of religion.
Now the big question is, why are the moderate Imams not making a stand over all this violence?
Same as in NI