Yep. Not trying to excuse their behavior but a lot of these young men grew up with no fathers or positive role models of any type where values like this were not stressed. It's all they saw growing up and I imagine college coaches, who most of the time are the first exposure to positive role models in these kids' lives, have a hard time breaking them away from it. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. And to be honest, I can see why people wanna hate on Meyer but Strong seems like a stand up guy. Making fun of him for trying to mold young men? Comon now. We should be applauding him for caring about their lives and futures and not just viewing them as another player who can get him a raise or a better job.

You are always going to have kids who make poor decisions or bad apples. I was making the point that the notion that having it spelled out in supersized font would change that is ridiculous. The type of kids a school recruits and how they deal with discipline probably has a bigger impact on that.

"Oyster monkey:" while the "idea that any program is above having kids run afoul of the rules" may, indeed, be "asinine," the real issue is what the coach does afterwards.

If you are a Tom Izzo, and one player tells the police he sat in the same room and watched while another player sexually assasulted someone, you cover it up. If you are Urban Meyer or Mark Dantonio, you give a lot of third and fourth "second chances" to "deserving players," for "minor" offenses like assault or domestic abuse.

And if you are anyone who has coached at the University of Michigan during the last fifty years, you give second chances for DUI or possession of pot, and get rid of those who commit criminal acts that put other students on your campus at risk.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this. I'm not saying that there aren't coaches and programs that handle discipline better than others. Although I'm not one that thinks you have to have a single rule against which all discipline gets evaluated. I think it's the coach's responsibility to do what's best for the kid. But the kids on the team are from all kinds of backgrounds and what works for one might not work for others. I think coaches have to balance that against being evenhanded, but there won't always be an obvious right way to go.

But nobody here is arguing with me about whether Urbz is practicing what he preaches. They're all saying that none of the things written on the walls at OSU and Louisville should have to be said. Maybe in an ideal world these things shouldn't have to be said, but the prevalence of drugs, guns, date rape, etc. on college campuses tells me they do.

- Uncle Rico

"Yes Jim, you had a great team. You all did"

"I guess I always assumed these things were self-explanatory and not having to be spelled out like this. Seems like a pretty low bar for core values."

Do you say that because you really feel like this is unnecessary, or do you say that because Ohio State said it and you feel the need to put them down for it? Because let's face it, if Michigan had this on a mural somewhere, many of us would praise it. Truth be told, not all young men honor these values, no matter what community you come from.

I see signs that say "shoplifters will be prosecuted." At the zoo where I work there are plenty of "do not feed the animals" signs. Lots of schools have signs that say "no weapons allowed on the property." I mean, yeah, this sounds obvious. But they are rules that need to be established, regardless. Not all players are brought up through the greatest background and not all of them have made wise decisions. I can imagine some coaches bring in troubled students because they want to give them an opportunity to correct their lives.

Yes, a good person would see this wall as their own code and what they believe in. Even a troubled person would want to live by this. But we've seen time and again that not everyone is perfect, even if you want them to be.

Obviously it is more relevant because it involves Ohio State, but that doesn't change the fact that these are not core values. These are things by which most average human beings abide (the drugs one is a little debatable).

These are rules. To call these things "core values" suggests that these are the things that represent what the organization is all about. When they think of Louisville football, should the first few things that come to mind be, "no guns, no drugs, and treat women respectfully?" That'd be like saying the first things that come to mind when you think of Wal-Mart should be "no stealing, no fighting with fellow employees, and no weapons."

A couple of examples...

Whole Foods' core values are:

Selling the highest quality natural and organic products available

Satisfying and delighting our customers

Supporting team member excellence and happiness

Creating wealth through profits and growth

Caring about our communities and environment

Creating ongoing win-win partnerships with our suppliers

Promoting the health of our stakeholders through healthy eating education

Not "don't do drugs", "don't bring guns to work," and "don't steal from us."

A core value is "Developing healthy minds, bodies, and spirits through discipline and hard work" and a rule supporting that might be "no alcohol, drugs, or smoking." A core value is "Being respected members of the community" and supporting rules might be "no weapons" and "treat women with respect." I think the "Integrity" core value covers everything on the Louisville and ohio state lists.

A good portion of the students I teach come from not ideal homes (I teach B level physics, biology, and math). I spend a good portion of the early part of the year establishing class norms of a good citizen (ie one person talks at a time, use respectful language, cell phones are away during class, come to class prepared and on time). If students cannot handle these basic norms, then they can serve detention with me or if it gets to a point then they must schedule a meeting between me and their assistant principal before they will be allowed back in class.

However, I would hope any high school grad would understand a basic code of ethics.

I suspect people, like me, are little surprised that words like honor, integrity, respect wouldn't be enough, but that the specificity of guns, drugs, etc. would have to be spelled out. The former cover the latter, plus a whole lot more, for those who take those words to heart and live by them.

I don't think there's a specific age is there? You can join the military and die defending your country when you're 18, but you can't drink alchohol legally until you're 21. Can't parents still claim their children as dependants on their tax returns when the children are still in college?

Well I'm glad that you had a fully developed system of impulse control at 19 and didn't need anyone to reinforce a positive message or provide you with an environment where making the right decision was encouraged. You should give yourself a high five.

No, but they reminded me from time to time. And they didn't have 100 kids, so they could, like, talk to me every day. Whereas the coaches for these teams probably don't get to interact with every kid every day. The signs might be overkill, but what the hell? They certainly don't hurt.

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners,
contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders
and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now
tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no
longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict
their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their
teachers."
~Socrates

Yes I got him a gift. He had a kidney stone. You piss a rock through your pecker, you deserve more than just a pat on the fucking back.

Maybe it says more about the culture that every member of society created, one that idolizes football players, oversexualizes everything, criminalizes weed but hardly sanctions underage drinking, and is in general a festering melting pot of awesomeness and diabetic aids blood.

Being a workaholic is a common problem for many successful men and women but that doesn't mean Urban doesn't treat women with respect. I would imagine wives and children feeling neglected at times is par for the course for D1 head coaches.

I think there's a difference between being a workaholic and slapping women around (which I'm 99.9% sure that's what the 'treat women with respect' mantra is about and btw don't call them bitches and hoes either).

Besides being downright obvious to most young men, the asthetics of these signs just seem weird. Especially OSU. Seems like word salad with the block text, bold, and a list tucked in there real sneaky like. I read (because I try to) DECISIONS! Honesty, treat with NO women respect drugs stealing violence.

98.88% of these kids are on athletic scholarships and if they want-they definitely need them in Columbus-weapons, they have to steal them. If this "core value" is actually implemented by Urbie, then there will be a lot of suspended players. The school, not unlike Barry did at OU, although never publicly admitted to, could at least steer them in the direction of a booster who is willing to supply them with weapons which should, of course, be returned, like autos, when no longer at the university. This is Ohio fergodssake. ^Never steal weapons at OH? WTF will they come up with next? Woodrow Jefferson Hayes is probably rolling over in his grave. What a bunch of idiiots. I predict that sign will be changed within three days, and if not, it will be plastered with bullet holes, as well it should be, imho of course. I mean we have our traditions and they have theirs.

"Everybody kills people, murders, steals from you, steals from me, whatever." Now maybe with these helpful signs in place "everybody" won't murder or steal. Ahh, what heights T. Pryor might have acheived has he had a reminder like this around when he was at Ohio.

I don't have a problem with coaches trying to hammer home values in kids. Yeah in a perfect world they can be left unsaid, but I'm sure this sign actually helps a lot of kids on OSU keep their priorities straight.

It does seem more like a list of "things to avoid doing so that we don't have to suspend you" list than a list of actual "core" values though. Treat women with respect? How about treat all people with respect. And I can think of about 100 things higher up on my list of values than "no drugs" and "no weapons." But again, those are the things college kids get in trouble with the most, so I understand the sign. Though the motivation behind it might be geared more towards "keep kids out of trouble with the NCAA" than "make kids into better men," it has a good influence regardless.

Wasn't there a story a few years ago about Derek Dooley having to teach his players how to wash? When you start with teaching college kids how to scrub their asses, this is just about graduate level at some places.

Sharing showers for such extents of time and then overlapping with other teams and sports, it's probably a pretty good idea to have a basic hygiene class. It might seen funny, until your qb gets a staph infection on his elbow and it nags him for 2 years.

To be fair Charlie Strong is a great coach from what I can tell. He has a name/footprint in FLA, which has helped UofL tremendously. He can also get some kids that the likes of Michigan and Stanford couldn't touch, if you catch my drift. And not that that is a bad thing at all. It is what it is.

or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

"This is a program in transition, this is a program that's going back to hard-nosed, big-boy football," Brandon said. "We're in the process of putting the pieces in place to afford us to do that consistently and effectively.

I personally think this is great! Now I don't suspect Coach Meyer is likely to do drugs, steal or carry a gun, but the reminders to be honest and treat women with respect hopefully keeps him on the straight and narrow.

For most of this board... you were raised by two parents and probably in a fairly safe and nurtured environment. While I can argue that these are "rules" rather than "values" it is a good thing that any school does this. Do not think that this message is not necessary for kids who have played at Michigan or on the team currently. I would like to think less do need these reminders but it is necessary.

Unfortunately in our society there are kids who grow up and never hear things like this. It's not bad that any program is posting it, it's sad that they have too.

It's a starting point and important, but there is also much (or more) to be said for imparting VALUES rather than just a set of rules. Rules are just things to follow so you don't get in trouble. Values impart the, er, value of following those rules. Rules by themselves don'y make you a better person, they make you a rule follower, or someone who just tries to not get caught violating those rules.

Yes, let's have a semantics debate instead of recognizing coaches doing good things. Do you feel better about yourself now? Perhaps the coaches know this and are using values instead of rules, because, well who wants more rules to follow? Using the term values might cause the young men to want to live that sort of lifestyle.