It is no secret that are front line gets man handled by young athelete bigs. It has been happening for the last 3 years with teams like Utah, Golden State, Orlando, I could go on. This is nothing new. Sheed is the primary problem as he doesn't want to bang with these young guys and wants to jack up 3 pointers all day long. As for all of the cries for Amir please save them folks. He would foul out by the end of the first quarter against a talent like Aldridge.

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The question is why haven't we drafted or found the right athletic big to match those other teams?? We thought we had it in Amir and Max, but obviously prior coaching may have stunted their growth.

Sheed is an enigma. Those threes come in handly when you are trying to get over a hump and they actually fall through, but if that is all he has to offer every game, we may as well bring him off the bench ala Fabio when we need some threes to pick up the offense. Should have traded him for two younguns in the off season when Joe was blowin smoke One rebound in 39 minutes!!

We are playing at a middle of the road level. Portland outexecuted the Pistons on offense and defense. Our defense is poor. We allow penetration by guards whoever they are. Sheed had one board tonight. He is 34 and sometimes plays like it.

Our offense cannot keep up. We have new players, rookies, bad passes and the like. We cannot execute with enough efficiency to compensate for a poor defense. Hence, right now, we are a middle of the road team.

Looks like Kwame/Sheed is too slow a pairing.

Problem is that the bigs we have drafted were low picks. Maxiel and Amir have done ok the past few games but are not capable of filling Sheed's shoes when Sheed plays old. But the offensive and defensive execution problems are troubling.

AI led teams have never really looked like roadkill, always competitive. But there is never any consistency in play, and i'm actually getting very ticked off (and I was a guy who had fallen asleep with our old ways). They can beat the best teams, and just inexplicably die off against middle of the pack teams. In the playoffs, it has never ever worked in a 7 game series (EDIT: actually, it worked in the DAL-GSW). THe more this becomes AI's team

no i'm not clamoring for Chauncey back. He irked me to the point where it was kind of a relief knowing that our "leader" wouldn't deflect the blame to the easiest scapegoat like Chauncey did. I'm glad Joe opened that box. but we need to face facts. AI will never learn how to defend, and being on the Pistons won't change that.

and chances are that an AI led team will fall short of the ECF.

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EDIT: And it says a lot about your team when the fans are pleading, and writing love letters and making petitions to get Dice back in Detroit. He's a solid player, but he SHOULDN'T be the savior to your front court. Maybe on a bottom feeder, but the lack of depth there is perturbing.

Well that was fun. Thank You Hermann for giving up 5 crucial points to Brandon Roy. Why was he in instead of Max in the 1st place? Small ball sucks. We need 2 bigs in at all times.

We are so much of a better team with Stuckey in, it's glaring. Even Rip looked good with Stuck, and making Rip look good is very difficult these days. Allen Iverson still sucks along with his erratic passes. I counted about 6 times he went into the paint and threw some retarded kick out pass to someone who wasn't even open in the 1st place. And when he wasn't doing that he was doing um, well nothing. Like people mentioned he got outplayed by Steve Blake (an actual PG).

I'm really sick of Tay bringing the ball up.It completely takes him out of the offense, and he's OK as an occassional PF not the full-time PG for the 1st unit.

LA lit us up, but our front court as a whole played well enough for us to win this game; it was our starting backcourt that did us in. They are just not meshing.

Start Stuckey. Make AI the sparkplug of the 2nd unit w/ Arron. Stop playing Hermann in crucial minutes. This team needs help. Our offense is painful to watch.

edited to add;

How is it possible that with AI, Sheed has become even more perimeter oriented? He needs his minutes cut. Also, i'm not seeing any lack of effort. They look they are trying and are just bad which is even worse. The frustration is coming off in waves from their body language.

Not to sound like a broken record but we really do need to give this more time. Its a huge change for everyone. When AI is off its like playing without a PG, when he is on he is often too fast for the rest of the Pistons. In the post-game AI commented on how hard this has been comming in without a pre-season to get ready.

At least the bench is clicking now. Curry just has to figure this out and find some set rotations otherwise we will get something like tonight where one of your hotest players ( Maxiel ) only played 10 mins.

Well that was fun. Thank You Hermann for giving up 5 crucial points to Brandon Roy. Why was he in instead of Max in the 1st place? Small ball sucks. We need 2 bigs in at all times.

We are so much of a better team with Stuckey in, it's glaring. Even Rip looked good with Stuck, and making Rip look good is very difficult these days. Allen Iverson still sucks along with his erratic passes. I counted about 6 times he went into the paint and threw some retarded kick out pass to someone who wasn't even open in the 1st place. And when he wasn't doing that he was doing um, well nothing. Like people mentioned he got outplayed by Steve Blake (an actual PG).

I'm really sick of Tay bringing the ball up.It completely takes him out of the offense, and he's OK as an occassional PF not the full-time PG for the 1st unit.

LA lit us up, but our front court as a whole played well enough for us to win this game; it was our starting backcourt that did us in. They are just not meshing.

Start Stuckey. Make AI the sparkplug of the 2nd unit w/ Arron. Stop playing Hermann in crucial minutes. This team needs help. Our offense is painful to watch.

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personally, i think Hermann needs to stop playing period. Maybe except garbage time, to spell Tayshaun and other rest, or to step in if god forbid someone gets hurt (Pistons got get injured so that's kind of a non issue). He needs to be Scalabrine and NOTHING MORE.

and every time Curry plays small ball, or brings the effin' ball up with Prince, i'm taking off the kid gloves, and call a spade a spade. those are TERRIBLE coaching decisions made by terrible coaches.

I think there's plenty of blame to go around concerning young Mr. Roy.

He scored alot more than 5 points, and when he scored them doesn't matter as much as that they still counted toward the final point total.

I guess the bottom line is it's hard for me to get down on Fabio when so many people that I expect to play well stunk it up, whereas I don't expect much from Hermann except to wave his arms and bobble back and forth and not shoot the ball at the other teams basket.

Hey all, been chillin' with the newest, tiniest member of the Piston Forum family so I just watched the game. I think in a week or 2 she'll be overpowering Tay.

I can't help but wonder what DET's offense could look like if they called plays for Sheed in the post as often as POR did for Aldredge? He doesn't need to shoot every time. Haven't seen the box, but he had a decent amount of passes that led to hoops yesterday.

I am glad Curry put Tay on blast. He did get going for a bit in the 3rd, but a 2 play sequence in the first where he got blocked by the French guy on a trademark meek lay-up attempt followed by a limp wristed pass into and across traffic that started another Blazer fast break sums up his game. People can beat up on Herrrman all they want, but I am at a point where I want him to start at SF. He took the ball strongly from the wing to the hoop for a foul. (He attempted a crazy reverse Doc J finger roll!)

DET got killed on the boards. Lee, you are correct about Kwame not hitting the O boards. Amir made a difference. He even guarded Oden and POR did not single him out. He boxed Oden out forcefully on one play and was always around the ball.

The 2 units runs could have gone on longer with better plays/passes from Stuckey on the break.

i made one point about tay on the podcast, i'll make the rest right now:

i thought we've actually done well against the pick-and-roll the last couple games, but portland is a little different with the playmaking ability of roy and post-up game of aldridge. it was a different look and we had difficulty adjusting - for instance, even though LA was lighting us up, there was no need for AI to double on him and leave blake open at the top to either shoot or whip the ball to another wing player for an open basket.

sure sheed only grabbed 1 rebound, but the dribble penetration really killed us today, and it made some of our bigs look worse than they actually were.

portland is a very well-coached team. the fact that they are so young and playing so poised is a very good sign for them.

one thing we *are* very good at is blocks and keeping the ball inbounds and gaining possession. d-howard might get more spectacular blocks but j-max always comes up with the ball after his, rather than blasting it into the stands.

i think people were panicking with how badly they were clamoring to get dice back. he's not our savior - yes he'll help, but even before the trade we were having difficulty finding a role for him, and i can't see that changing a whole lot. his heart and toughness are sorely needed, though.

you can see why stuckey gives us a better chance at a championship in the long-run. AI's size disadvantage is something every one of his teams has had to deal with. with stuckey it's never going to be a problem.

Only caugh about one half. And excuse me, but this team is going nowhere if

1) The frontcourt fails to get a clue. Someone on this team must have forgotten that Aldridge is a damn good player.
2) Allen Iverson keeps playing like a *****

What do I mean by that? He needs to stop trying to be our facilitator. He's failed at that throughout his ENTIRE career. The coaches keep telling him to just be himself, but in order for that he'll need at least 15 shots and 8 trips the the foul line. Either that or Curry needs to put him in the lineup with:11

Tayshaun at the 3, Alf, Amir, and Sheed. Surround him with defenders and garbagemen and he will thrive on offense. He'll be forced to elevate his offense.

(On the contrary, Let Rip get in with Stuckey)

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This starting unit of yours, (which is one I also have posted in the rotation thread) AI, Afflalo, Tay, Amir, and Sheed, works in two ways.

On defense, it pairs the much stronger Afflalo with AI, offsetting some of the deficits AI has in D.

Now, on offense, lets talk about Billups. Some thought Billups was the reason we could not run. But really, it was Rip's inability to help run a fast break as much as anything that was the problem. Ever notice what happens if Rip is on a fast break? Rip ends up shooting a 15 footer. Rip simply is a lousy ball handler, more prone to turn the ball over vs. being able to drive to the basket and make anything happen.

Having Afflalo in with AI will help us on fast breaks. The ball will end up where its suppose to end up, at the basket for an easy hoop. Sure, sometimes the other team gets back, and when that happens, AI or Afflalo can knock down a jumper. But fast breaks should not end that way over and over.

Tay, with his quickness and height, is the perfect guy to finish a fast break off by catching at the rim and dunking it. Amir, ditto. Sheed just throws the outlet pass, and steps up to the three line in case the situation calls for a wide open trey to finish off the break.

And I'll add, Tay himself seems to be a pretty weak passer sometimes. Adding Stuckey to the starting unit gives:

all this hermann hating... you know he may be the worst player on the team, heck if you want to argue in the whole nba go ahead.... but here is the bottom line

plus 10 in 13:33.... we were better with him on the floor then not, not because he is more talented but he was giving effort, same can't be said for the guy he was spelling... Prince is my favorite player on the team and has been since 03 playoffs (stuckey is coming on fast though) but he was terrible yesterday along with the other starters... Wallace would have been on the bench too in the 4th I can say pretty confidently if Dyss was back in uniform, but you need a shooter to balance the floor and Amir and Max arn't there yet.

I try not to make up lineups but I would have gone with Stuckey, AA, Rip, Amir, and Max the last 5 mins and hoped for no set offense... just pressure pressure pressure.

all this hermann hating... you know he may be the worst player on the team, heck if you want to argue in the whole nba go ahead.... but here is the bottom line

plus 10 in 13:33.... we were better with him on the floor then not, not because he is more talented but he was giving effort, same can't be said for the guy he was spelling... Prince is my favorite player on the team and has been since 03 playoffs (stuckey is coming on fast though) but he was terrible yesterday along with the other starters... Wallace would have been on the bench too in the 4th I can say pretty confidently if Dyss was back in uniform, but you need a shooter to balance the floor and Amir and Max arn't there yet.

I try not to make up lineups but I would have gone with Stuckey, AA, Rip, Amir, and Max the last 5 mins and hoped for no set offense... just pressure pressure pressure.

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We did ok with Herrmann in the game there. And Tay was resting. Two good things. The fact that they had to go out and guard Herrmann did help. However, a lot of it had to do with Stuckey, Afflalo, and Amir, who were also out there, covering Herrmann on the defensive rotations. Note, Herrmann was out there when they were using their 2nd unit, spelling their starters.

When Herrmann came into the game in the 4th quarter, it was against their starters, and he did not fit at all. He got pulled quickly, but the game had already gotten out of hand a bit. Tay could have come into the game at that time. They have to guard Tay too, and Tay is not a defensive liability.

We have another guy on the team who can knock down shots, and back up Tay at small forward. Afflalo. If not Afflalo, use Sharpe, who can also knock down an open jumper. There is no need to ever play Herrmann, solely for his shooting. The better teams that we meet in the playoffs will always check Herrmann so he can't shoot, and Herrmann will just become a liability.

As I keep repeating. Yes, I must sound like a stuck record at this point. Because we all went thru this with Hayes last season. Bench players should be able first and foremost to defend. Or else find some other team to be on. Me, I suggest Herrmann try Europe, where his game should fit just fine.

Herrmanns defense was no worse than any other Piston on Sunday. Herrmann was on the floor when we went on a 15-0 run. Herrmann earns every minute he plays, and he earns every minute he sits. Coach Curry has done a solid job of finding him minutes. Usually Herrmann, like Will Bynum makes the most of them, other times it's just not his night. Watching AI on defense puts Walters D-Game into perspective, he tries hard, and at times is successfull. When he doesn't succeed is when we put him on the floor and he is terribly overmatched i.e. vs Paul Pierce, other times it's when he gets caught on switches. Herrmanns defense is servicable, and by no means is he an easy target i.e. Wally Sczerbiak. Get off his back and be fair, better yet watch other NBA teams to get a better barometer or your own team.

Herrmann's eFG is .673 this year (.675 on jump shots!). He's converts jump shots 20% more often than Stuckey finishes layups.

Herrmann's D is worse than average, but he's making up for it by shooting lights out. Also, he's a much better defender at the PF spot than he is at the SF spot. At the 3, he gives up an eFG of .548 and at the 4 he gives up an eFG of .357 (ironically). Stat of the day!