The Computer and Communications Industry Association filed a new complaint with the European Union against Microsoft concerning the Windows XP operating system. This complaint comes as the EU completes an investigation into a previous complaint filed by Sun Microsystems (see our coverage).

The new complaint is based on allegations that Windows XP is being utilized by Microsoft to maintain and further its monopoly on desktop operating systems. Specifically, the complaint makes issue of the fact Windows XP is bundled with Outlook Express, Movie Maker, Windows Messenger (an instant messaging client), and Windows Media Player. Also within the complaint are concerns over Microsoft's use of .NET Passport and its entrance into operating systems for mobile phones.

BRIAN'S OPINION
How many times can we beat this dead horse? It seems like these industry associations are making the same arguments over and over again. Whenever I hear any significant complaints concerning Microsoft it seems to always be from a group of its competitors.

I will not argue with the fact that Microsoft has a ridiculously large marketshare concerning desktop operating systems, but it is my belief that MS earned it. I can't remember the last time I saw people picketing in the streets about the evil that is Microsoft. Really, the only time I ever see such a rally is in California. It's funny that that's a place where a large portion of Microsoft's competitors are based.

I need to just realize the anti-trust allegations against Microsoft will never really end simply because it's the only ammunition Microsoft competitors have in their arsenal. What really should matter is what consumers want, and not what businesses tell them they should want. If such were the case I guess a lot of lawyers would be out of work. God forbid we should allow the marketplace to actually decide what products people want. I guess that's what the courts are for.

Not to jump on an anti-MS bandwagon(9:36am EST Wed Feb 12 2003)But I have to say that if I want a movie editor, or a media player, I'll download or buy one and install it. Bundling a ton of crap that one may or may not use with the OS has always been a MS weakness. The same goes for services. Nothing should be included in the OS, except the OS. Services that it does't _NEED_ to function shouldn't be installed/turned on by default. Its just a security risk. If they want to sell the OS as a home product for the very tech illiterate to use, fine, but don't call it a business product when it is built on a model that is nothing but dangerous in the business environment. - by eh

If the world were flat:(9:43am EST Wed Feb 12 2003)The Automobile and Transportation Industry Association filed a new complaint with the European Union against General Motors concerning the Corvette operating system. This complaint comes as the EU completes an investigation into a previous complaint filed by the Road Builders Co-Operative (see our coverage).

The new complaint is based on allegations that the steering wheel is being utilized by GM to maintain and further its monopoly on sports car operating systems. Specifically, the complaint makes issue of the fact Steering wheels are bundled with a horn actuating device, a turn signal stalk, tilt – telescopic steering colum controls (an instant adjustment client), and buttons related to the Corvette Media Player (cd/dvd). Also within the complaint are concerns over General Motor's use of onboard engine management computers and its entrance into operating systems for pickup trucks.- by Luddite

RE:Luddite(10:12am EST Wed Feb 12 2003)And did GM solely create those parts? If you try to replace those parts with 3rd party components, can you completely remove the old component? By replacing that component, will the engine still run? Does GM (by contract) prevent auto dealerships from installing 3rd party compoments if that is what you want?

If you are going to use this approach, perhaps you should consider comparing it against the old oil barrons from the turn of the 20th century. At least that would make a level playing field…

- by History is Revealing

ms(10:16am EST Wed Feb 12 2003)Sounds to me, that the people of europe aren't selling out the public's privacy

Microsoft is deeply entrenched in the US. They're everywhere. It is hard for you to do anything without it being influenced in someway in the US. This is how microsoft gets away with so much. Europe obviously has higher standards. They dont like all of their computers being controlled by a monopolist from the US who could care less about their consumers. Microsoft is unethical and is just bad business. I doubt the europeans care much for them. - by the_dude

Hardly – they stole it by “tweaking” APIs so that competitors software would not work, or were blamed for instability, as well as using undocumented APIs for their own products.

I gave up trying to buy a PC without paying the M$ tax since I wanted a totally different environment. What I do now is build my own.

At least it keeps M$ out of my systems, and reduces my vulnerabilities to something manageable. - by old sampler

Luddite: Car Analogy(11:28am EST Wed Feb 12 2003)Why would anyone buy a car whose hood is welded shut and the only place you can repair it is at the factory (Microsoft)? Linux is open and they provide on-board tools to fix any problems for free. Reminds me of the older BMW with a built in tool kit hidden in the trunk. - by Linux user

Q: How many times can we beat this dead horse?(11:32am EST Wed Feb 12 2003)A: As many times as it takes before Microsoft finally decides to stop taking actions which suppress competition and hamper interoperability.

Not only have Microsoft's past sins been (apparently) forgiven by the feds and (also apparently) forgiven by a number of folks including the author of the above article, even though said violations of US federal law were widely acknowledged by the courts, but Microsoft continues to behave in the same manner as they did before the various trials, bundling more and more smaller (but proprietary) applications into their “operating system” product line, and making it harder and harder for other companies to interact with their software.

As long as Microsoft continues on its current path, some folks will continue to vehemently protest its actions. - by Prootwadl

You are not the 95% of the population(11:44am EST Wed Feb 12 2003)Who reads Geek.com? People who know their computers. I run Linux. My office runs windows. And you know what…I LOVE MS WINDOWS in the office because I have 35 people who dont know jack about computers. MS keeps them from screwing stuff up and makes everything STANDARDIZED and easy. People need Outlook Express. People need MSN MEssenger. And this just makes it easier. We need some integration. Besides, if you don't like it…delete it. MSN MEssenger is easy to get rid of. And using a different email client is very easy also.

This attack is just by industry enemies who want to slow MS with litigation and waste their money while hiding their name behind some coalition of freedom or other shit. Cmon…let technology rule…not piece of shit lawyers. - by distempered

Why would you buy a car that you have to put together on your own, need to go to several garages and get 20 different answers for you problem. always have the feeling of an unfinished unrefined car. and when you crash… it's really totaled.

- by este

This will be an on going…(11:58am EST Wed Feb 12 2003)problem for M$. Monopoly abuse will not go away until M$ decides to change it's practices. This is a problem M$ could solve, but choose not to as it is not in their best interest. M$ has cared little of the threat of litigation in the past, and will continue to attempt to monopolize new markets with new products. Who cares if someone sues you over XP when W2K3 is coming out? - by tech

Re: este: Car Analogy(12:07pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)How about going to a dealer (Microsoft) where they have only three models: Windows XP Pro (turbo compact), Windows XP Home (compact) and Windows CE (motorcycle)?Check the dealer across the street (Linux) where they have more selection: Various supercomputer including #1 and #2 supercomputer (supersonic rocket car), mainframes (mac truck), servers with various processors such as Alpha, Sparc, Itanium, PowerPC, etc (various models of SUV), PC (compact cars), PDA (motorcycle), embedded devices (scooters and skateboards).I would visit the dealer with more selection and the developer are doing that right now. - by Linux user

Re: este: Car Analogy(12:11pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)Why would you buy an unreliable car (Microsoft) when the alternative is better (Linux)?Linux can easily become telecom grade (extremely reliable for datacenter) where as Windows is not telecom grade. Microsoft has not even applied for telecom grade testing because it would fail. - by Linux user

Re: este: Totaled Linux is easier to fix than Windows(12:18pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)I experience a totalled Windows. I reinstalled Windows on top of crashed Windows. It messed up the registry because all the registry links were messed up. All my installed Windows programs had to be reinstalled.I also experience a totalled Linux. I reinstalled Linux on top of a crashed Windows. It came back to life with no problems. For the worst crashes: I could tar my /home, /opt, and /local directory on to CDsreinstall linux and untar my /home, /opt, /local and I am back in business also. Now that is much much much easy than Windows. - by Linux user.

re: linux user(12:24pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)how many supercomputers you have at home? just what are you doing on your PC to be needing telecom grade? I guess to each his own right? I've been using win2k for 2 years now… haven't restarted in the last 6 months… i have yet to crash, get a virus or get hacked… everything runs just fine the way it is… for sure if i were setting up a file server or printer server, i would probably use linux as i don't have to stare at it all the time and don't tell me about xwindows… what ever they are… it just looks unrefined. - by este

re:linux user(12:30pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)more simpler than reinstalling… i have an image of a fresh install of win2k with all drivers, programs and GAMES that I use on 2 dvds… all i do is pop it in… change dvds… done. - by este

Imaging is a good solution.(12:40pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)That's what I do with Win95 OSR2, thanks to Drive Image.

Thankfully, I've not had to restore from those images too many times over the years.

It's also the solution I use to protect my OS/2 installation when I apply FixPaks. Recovery from a bad FixPak install is easy when one has a backup. :-) - by Prootwadl

Re: este(12:41pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)A fresh image of linux can be done also. I can image the entire hard disk (including the dual boot windows) onto a clone hard disk using “dd” command. There is also open source g4u (ghost for Unix) which will back up linux and windows. What disk imaging tools does standard Windows prove?

KDE is pretty much refined.

I have been using Windows XP. I expected it to be very reliable as their ads claim. I had BSOD from my video card which was introduced before Windows XP. I have numerous crashes before Windows and the vendor sent a reliable patch 3 months ago. I still have a BSOD from my USB radio. On the Linux side, solid as a rock with the same hardware. It is too much to ask of Windows XP is to work reliability? - by Linux user

Here's an idea(12:46pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)Microsoft should take a year or two off, not producing another version of Windows and not patching/ creating service packs for once it gets into the .NET “you-can-only-use-windows-while-you're-still-paying-us” license scheme. Then, watch all the corporations start begging Microsoft to update/renew Windows from their knees.

I wonder how many of their competitors are using Windows where they've got other available OSs to choose from along with their own set of tools? They just want to grab a quick buck from the money tree.

Last I checked, a monopoly means there's no competition… This is an oligopoly. If people are tired of using MS embedded apps ignore them or remove them and install something else.

Don't complain that Microsoft is giving you “free” software within Windows just because you're in competition, just make your product better and market it through print/TV/web, and not through court cases. Last I checked, the SuperBowl had more viewers than any broadcast on CourtTV.

Think about it. - by ArsoNick

Wish they would stop…lol(12:52pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003) I hear the same stupid arguments all the time. First off I see nothing wrong with a manufacturer including options for their customer. I mean come on when you buy a dell computer package it comes with all the hardware. Or you buy a sports car it comes equipped with AC/ brakes/ power locks/ power steering. I mean its the business product they are selling they should be able to include what ever options they wish or they think their customers want. I mean hell general mills offers a free gallon of milk when you buy two boxes of their cereal it is not unfair to Kelloggs. You dont like the product you dont buy it. Microsoft is what it is because consumers buy it. Real complaints:1>Stolen ideas.2>Cant remove options. *See note13>Pressure tactics on distributors of your product such as threats to stop them from selling your computations items.

Bullshit Complaints.1>They are putting options into their software.2>They are bundling software.

* Note 1 How to remove windows options that dont appear in add remove simply by editing one file. Go to the ‘inf’ sub-folder under your ‘Windows’ Folder. This would be hidden. So select the option of ‘Show all files and folders’ from the Explorer first. Open the file called ‘sysoc.inf’ with Notepad. The file contains the entries for the programs. Entries with the text ‘hide’ in their parameters will not show up in the Add/Remove Windows Components list. Do a search and replace for ‘,hide’ and replace it with ‘,’ (a comma). Save the file and close it. Voila! All the hidden components show up ready to be tweaked or removed.newtronx@hotmail.com - by NewtronX

Car Analogy continued…(1:21pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)Why would I buy a car from MS? Because the MS car is able to be driven by 99% of the population. Because 95% of the little bonus parts built by third party companies are made for the MS car. Because there are tons of people who know how to fix a MS car. Because my MS car for the most part, will allow me to do quite a bit of crap to it before I have to fix it. Because I can go from1 MS car to the next MS car and they are all almost the same. yeah…I could buy a linux car…but then I would have a huge learning curve. None of my family could drive it…and none of the office workers could drive it. MS cars sell because people can use them.

That F1 racing car in your front yard doesn't work with unleaded… - by distempered

Give it up!(1:39pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)I cant believe you linux users are not any smarter than you seem to be. The minute you can prove to me that Linux could be user friendly to schools, homes, business, and personal use to the average computer user is the day i agree with you. So lay off MS and go crawl back into your FREE OS WORLD (population 54) - by mslinuxdualboot

distempered & mslinuxdualboot(2:49pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)Here you go:A PEERED review on the usability of KDE proving it is slightly easier or at least on par with Windows.

Check out our local school Portland Oregon Riverdale School District. They are running Linux - by proof Where is your

Why don't they go sue Mac(3:40pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)instead, they include a lot of stuff too. Next thing they are going to sue MS for including calculator, NotePad, WordPad, cheesy window games or something. - by come on man

little proof(3:41pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)what is this? might be better once they actually have something to put up… the least they can do is get their drop down window working. and run a spell check… - by hello?

That isn't the legal defition, but even if it were: how many desktop OSes still exist in the x86 market that were developed inside the marketplace?

(Big hint: Linux and the *BSD variants don't count, since they were developed as freeware outside the market)

BeOS is dead, OS/2 has been hanging on to a little bitty thread (thanks to Serenity Systems and friends, mainly), but has been declared dead by the popular media for a decade, Solaris/x86 almost got axed in the recent past by Sun, and QNXRtP is more a technology teaser than a real product.

What else is left?

Show me *one* competing product in the x86 desktop OS market that is viable for the general user and that didn't have to be shoehorned into its current position by hoards of loyal hobbyists, and I'll grant you that MS doesn't have a monopoly in that market. - by Prootwadl

car analogy(4:15pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)I bet you'd be pretty pissed off when you had to stop in the middle of the interstate to shut off and restart your engine everytime you changed your radio station, or put a new cd in your MS car. - by come on now

more proof.(4:49pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)- by proof Where is your

beat this dead horse(9:23pm EST Wed Feb 12 2003)“””Whenever I hear any significant complaints concerning Microsoft it seems to always be from a group of its competitors.”””

really? I always thought that the lovers of Microsoft would sue them. DUH. - by DuhBoy

if you dont like the corvette…(5:32am EST Thu Feb 13 2003)I cant understand… if you dont like that corvette with all those extras, why should you buy it? Why wont you buy some other car (less expensive or even free) wich you will be able to make what ever you want? Everyone is free to choose. - by tiago

try this(10:50am EST Thu Feb 13 2003)

use your brain - by whatup

Re: 95% of the population.(10:58am EST Thu Feb 13 2003)95% of the population isn't familiar enough with the issues to comment.

To address your note:

> Who reads Geek.com? People who know > their computers.

Yes. Many of the people who read and post here tend to be more knowledgable about technology and related issues than the general populace.

> I run Linux. My office runs windows. > And you know what…I LOVE MS WINDOWS > in the office because I have 35 people > who dont know jack about computers.

Congratulations. I know a number of people who love Macs in their office for much the same reason.

> MS keeps them from screwing stuff up > and makes everything STANDARDIZED > and easy.

You know as well as I do that *any* consistent computer paradigm would address the “standardized desktop” issue as long as you enforced it as the standard desktop in your office.

That includes the MacOS as well as things like KDE or GNOME. Just because an OS offers a choice of interfaces at installation time doesn't mean that the end users are able to exercise that choice. Any competent administrator will select one desktop metaphor and run with it…

> People need Outlook Express. People > need MSN MEssenger. And this just > makes it easier.

How is Outlook Express better than any of the dozens of other GUI mail clients that are out there?

We switched from PROFS (an IBM mainframe based mail/calendar/meeting package) at my old workplace to Outlook, and to be honest I preferred PROFS.

> We need some integration.

Some. However, functional integration needs to be made with security and with cross-platform and cross-program interoperability in mind.

Those are not Microsoft strong suites.

> Besides, if you don't like it…delete it.

Not that simple. When a Microsoft bundled applet (which typically uses a proprietary file or datastream format) becomes used heavily by others, it becomes harder and harder to not also use the same application if one wants to be able to communicate.

This wouldn't be an issue if MS were to follow existing standards w.r.t. said formats.

> This attack is just by industry > enemies who want to slow MS with > litigation and waste their money > while hiding their name behind some > coalition of freedom or other shit.

I'm an end user. I agree with most of the positions taken by MS's competitors. Why? Because I stand to gain if Microsoft is forced to adhere to standard formats, and also if other companies are more easily able to create competing products. That gives me a CHOICE of which software to use.

Nice concept, huh?

> Cmon…let technology rule…not > piece of shit lawyers.

I'd love to see Linux and other similar products be able to compete on equal footing with Windows, Office, and other Microsoft offerings.

Sadly, that isn't happening, since the playing field has been swept clean by Microsoft's bulldozers for some time. - by Prootwadl

Distemperered: Car Analogy continued…(12:28pm EST Thu Feb 13 2003)“Because there are tons of people who know how to fix a MS car.”Really? I bet how many people know the ins and outs of Windows Registry. I have Windows in a Nutshell but it looks like a black art of commands for the Windows Registry. I got an exercise for you. Transfer one modern commerical program from a Windows box to another Windows box using a blank CD. I bet it would stump most Windows people. Try the same thing with Linux, pretty simple. Even commercial programs for Linux would work. I have transfered Word Perfect 8 and Oracle 8 from my old Linux box to my new Linux box. - by linux user

first post(3:32pm EST Thu Feb 13 2003)i first and smort - by ffffff

choice is good(4:38pm EST Thu Feb 13 2003)well my 2cents only says that it is good that there is going to be 2 choices for the 99% (or 95%) of users now. Thank God that there is competition for MS that they cannot use holes in capitalism to destroy their ennemy. They will actually have to compete the way that capitalism was meant to make the industry compete… and subsequently grow.

hopefully neither lx-coding nor the ms-company die, the survivor would definitely have a product that would no longer grow with the evolution of what people want in a computer as a tool. - by whatever