The Soapbox

The Soapbox allows you to stand up and have a rant, tell a bad joke, complain about someone or post stuff that that may not be appropriate for reading at work and/or isn't strictly IT industry related. It is rated M. Do not post anything offensive or which breaches the Terms of Use. Do not post programming questions (use the programming forums for that) and please don't post ads.

The SoapBox is not for flame wars, personal vendettas, or for grinding your axe. Trolling will not be tolerated. Anything inappropriate for this forum will be deleted immediately.

A month after Morris's coronary bypass surgery, he was back in his doctor's office for his follow-up visit. "Doc, when can I start having sex again?" The doctor explained, "As soon as you can climb two flights of stairs without becoming winded." Morris considered this and then asked, "How about if I find a woman who lives on the ground floor?"

But it got your attention and gives you a far more appropriate venue for the puerile comments than Quick Answers or by posting fake answers to questions just to take the p**s.

Yes - VB6 is outdated.Yes - VB6 is no longer supportedHowever, Yes - There are still billions of lines of VB6 code still being using in Production systems across the world

No! - We cannot just wave a magic wand and convert it all in a single stroke (and test it thoroughly by the way!) . One of the reasons being that there are fewer and fewer developers who will admit to knowing anything about VB6 and people are actively discouraged from finding anything out.

Large, Medium and Small companies have kept VB6 (and even earlier tech) going for as long as they can simply because the stuff is already there, it works, it's already tested, it's already been proven, it's a major major investment in time and money to start converting it and doing all of that re-testing.

Or perhaps you would like the large banking organisation I work for to just dive in and replace all of their VB6 code with "the latest technologies" ... hey - how about we do that each time a new technology comes a-knocking? Yeah, right! You don't mind some of your money going missing in the meantime I guess?

So there will occasionally be questions in CP about VB6. Real questions about real problems (not homework or please do my work for me type questions) and re-writing the entire program/suite/enterprise will not be an option for that OP.

So if you don't like VB6, know nothing about VB6, don't want to help the OP or just want to be sarcastic, then butt out of those questions and come here and have a go at me instead.

I do actually remember reading that Microsoft stated that they will make sure that the VB6 core will work on OS's upto and including 8.

Lobster Thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce, served in a Provençale manner with shallots and aubergines, garnished with truffle pate, brandy and a fried egg on top and Spam - Monty Python Spam Sketch

Lobster Thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce, served in a Provençale manner with shallots and aubergines, garnished with truffle pate, brandy and a fried egg on top and Spam - Monty Python Spam Sketch

Lobster Thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce, served in a Provençale manner with shallots and aubergines, garnished with truffle pate, brandy and a fried egg on top and Spam - Monty Python Spam Sketch

False! VB6 apps run just fine on Win8 64 bit. Our main software applications are VB6, and I still work in it everyday. We are using .NET for new projects and will rewrite everything. The fact that VB6 runs flawlessly on Win8 buys me another 4-5 years to get it done.

Lobster Thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce, served in a Provençale manner with shallots and aubergines, garnished with truffle pate, brandy and a fried egg on top and Spam - Monty Python Spam Sketch

If you want to write a two-tier app with a pleasant GUI and backed by (say) SQL Server, VB6 could still do a useful job today but the writing is on the wall. As I enter my dotage I'll happily shuffle around any company that still has some VB6 that wants maintaining, as an old friend of mine said "If they pay me, I'll code in anything".

And since I do have a lot of VB6 (and 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and DOS) experience I'll try to use that to help people who are still supporting systems using it. I may offer some guidance that it is time to move on but I see this as being like taking my car to the garage. I know my mechanic well enough that he'll tell me when the work required makes it uneconomical to fix, he won't tell me to change the car when the wiper blades are worn out.

There are still billions of lines of VB6 code still being using in Production systems across the world

How much Cobol?How much Fortran?How much Pascal?

CHill60 wrote:

Large, Medium and Small companies have kept VB6 (and even earlier tech) going for as long as they can simply because the stuff is already there, it works, it's already tested, it's already been proven, it's a major major investment in time and money to start converting it and doing all of that re-testing.

To be fair "tested" in this context means - "it works in production".

Versus, for example a extensive and complete testing suite.

CHill60 wrote:

work for to just dive in and replace all of their VB6 code with "the latest technologies" ... hey - how about we do that each time a new technology comes a-knocking? Yeah, right! You don't mind some of your money going missing in the meantime I guess?

The banks absolutely do not care if my money goes missing. What they care about is if their money goes missing.

This is why, for example, credit cards these days have so many 'fraud' checks. They do nothing to protect the consumer because the consumer's credit cards are already completely protected from loss (maximum of $50.) What they do is protect the bank's losses.

But other than that no business should upgrade to every new technology.

But businesses especially large ones should have some concept of architecture which includes evaluating new technologies for inclusion. Across the entire business. And banks don't do that. They often have divisions that not only do not coordinate their development but have absolutely no idea that the other divisions even exist. Hiring and management is often at the highest levels (perhaps always) handled by financial officers who do not have any experience with development. And there is no emphasis on looking for solutions that increase the quality of development but always an emphasis on reducing cost.

I completely agree. I just got a little fed up with some people hijacking OPs genuine questions/problems involving VB6 just to have a rant, and sometimes being rather rude. I'd rather they had a go at me here so we can get on the point of QA

For a number of years we got question in the forums asking for VB6 support on projects that were just starting, they deserved a rant to move the project to a supported platform. I have not seen any of these for some time

I still think any large organisation needs a strategy to move to supported platforms! Still you should not be getting flack for supporting legacy crap but if it is broke then it needs migrating - yeah I know, broken wipers != new car but some of the requests are for adding new features!

Seriously though, we still do VB6 from time to time because that's what some of our customers still use. Although management announced we will not be supporting it anymore after 2015. The reason being that we simply cannot get it to work anymore on our machines (we run some virtual machines to edit VB6 software), but also because we don't have the knowledge anymore. Some of us (not me) still know some VB6 from way back when, but if you only get to do it once a year looking for that function or structure that could help you out takes way longer than it should...

Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done.Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'HOK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DDEthel CrudacreI cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - TrollslayerHave a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett

There was this little guy sitting in a bar, drinking his beer, minding his own business when all of a sudden this great big dude comes in and -- WHACK!! -- knocks him off the bar stool and onto the floor. The big dude says, "That was a karate chop from Korea." The little guy thinks "GEEZ," but he gets back up on the stool and starts drinking again when all of a sudden -- WHACK!! -- the big dude knocks him down AGAIN and says, "That was a judo chop from Japan." So the little guy has had enough of this... He gets up, brushes himself off and quietly leaves. The little guy is gone for an hour or so when he returned. Without saying a word, he walks up behind the big dude and -- WHAM!!!" -- knocks the big dude off his stool, knocking him out cold!!! The little guy looks at the bartender and says, "When he gets up, tell him that's a crowbar from Sears".

A female gynecologist retires and decides to pursue a hobby of hers: auto-tuning.She gets into a motor repair course in her community college and finishes with an exam.

The community college sends her grades through mail and when she receives them she is very surprised:-Out of one hundred points, one hundred and fifty? it must be a typo.

She calls the community college and asks for her teacher

-Mr. Shephard?-Hi, Mrs. Jones, how can I help you?-Well, I got my grades and it says that out of a 100 points I scored 150. It must be a typo!-That's no typo!-What do you mean?-Mrs. Jones: do you remember the testing procedure? Theorical and Practical?-Yes, Mr. Shephard, but I still don't get it.-Well, we started with the theorical: describe how to take apart and put together a motor, you had 50 out of 50...-... Ok?-Then there was the practical: to actually take apart and put together a motor, again 50 out of 50.-Ok, but what about the extra 50 points?

"AS A TEACHER and a Conservative supporter, I take exception to some of the remarks made in your April article, No Time For Complacency. I cannot speak for the present Government but I would like to put my views as briefly as I can.

The profligate spending of the last Socialist Government, or "Labour" as it calls itself, for some unknown reason, left this country in a very difficult financial position. The International Monetary Fund had refused to lend it any more money because of the extravagant way in which it was spent and the Socialists had to impose a freeze on spending which affected education and other services very severely.

It has cost practically all the revenue from North Sea oil to pay the interest on that debt and pay off some of the blank cheques left behind when they were put out of office in 1979. Under their Minister of Education, none other than Mrs Shirley Williams who was then a Socialist, we suffered equally from shortages of books and materials at a time when schools were full. She was too busy trying to impose comprehensive education on all and sundry to bother about such mundane things.

The present Government has put things back into perspective. You just cannot go on spending other people's money for ever, soaking the "rich" - who are usually not Labour supporters - to give to those they consider are the "poor" - who are usually good Labour party members, otherwise they do not exist - forever. What happens when there are no more "rich"?

I bought a 48K Spectrum last July after a long wait until I could afford one, as I wanted to assess its capabilities as a teaching machine, which I found to be limitless. I also wanted to keep one step ahead of the little horrors I teach and to be able to hold my own in discussions. As I find it a pleasant relief from work and politics, I did not welcome the intrusion of this in your otherwise excellent magazine. I shall, of course, continue to read it, despite all.

I cannot afford many things just now, like a daisywheel printer to go with my Tasword II and replace my 30-year-old typewriter; I shall buy one when I can afford it. The Government would dearly love to issue each school with two dozen computers and keep them up to date but there is the debt to pay and all manner of pressure groups demanding their share of public funds which are only just beginning to exist again."

We move in circles.

---------------------------------I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave

In any case, it wasn't an insult, it was an observation: socialists seem quite adept at putting out of their minds what happened the last time they held power and simply repeat the same mistakes. Again, an observation.r

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.nils illegitimus carborundum

No, it's objective. Socialists take power: they raise taxes and spend even more than they raise and blame everything on the previous government. Public finally figures out they've been had and votes in a non-socialist type of government which has to spend all of its time fixing what the socialists did, making them unpopular. Stupid public votes back in the socialists who do exactly the same thing again. Seen it too many times to consider it a subjective observation. (And I'm not saying the other end of the spectrum is any better but that wasn't under discussion).

Eddy Vluggen wrote:

Implies that any other than a socialist would not have, does it not?

No, see above.

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.nils illegitimus carborundum