King Sid the Great 87 wrote:From an objective stand point, the whole traffic issue is overblown.

I doubt that FC is expecting peak traffic during either rush hour times through the week. The majority of the business will likely occur on the weekends, when commuters aren't even in the city. Do you really envision 1000's of cars backed up across every bridge leading to Station Square?

Traffic will be bad at times, but its not going to be the 405 in california or the DC beltway.

King Sid the Great 87 wrote:From an objective stand point, the whole traffic issue is overblown.

I doubt that FC is expecting peak traffic during either rush hour times through the week. The majority of the business will likely occur on the weekends, when commuters aren't even in the city. Do you really envision 1000's of cars backed up across every bridge leading to Station Square?

Traffic will be bad at times, but its not going to be the 405 in california or the DC beltway.

King Sid the Great 87 wrote:From an objective stand point, the whole traffic issue is overblown.

I doubt that FC is expecting peak traffic during either rush hour times through the week. The majority of the business will likely occur on the weekends, when commuters aren't even in the city. Do you really envision 1000's of cars backed up across every bridge leading to Station Square?

Traffic will be bad at times, but its not going to be the 405 in california or the DC beltway.

Um, have you ever been in a car anywhere near Station Square on a busy Saturday night? 45 minutes to get into the parking lot and find a space is not uncommon. Traffic is a huge concern. There are 2 ways to get in and out of there, and they're both always busy.

From an objective point of view, you have no clue what you're talking about.......as is pretty much par for the course for you.

King Sid the Great 87 wrote:From an objective stand point, the whole traffic issue is overblown.

I doubt that FC is expecting peak traffic during either rush hour times through the week. The majority of the business will likely occur on the weekends, when commuters aren't even in the city. Do you really envision 1000's of cars backed up across every bridge leading to Station Square?

Traffic will be bad at times, but its not going to be the 405 in california or the DC beltway.

But that is also where they are getting their revenue projections, saying tons of people will be there all hours of the day. If what you are saying is correct, then their revenue projections should drop significantly.

Basically, FC is saying they are going to get the most people with the least traffic. One doesn't work with the other. YOu may be right, but then they'd have to lower their revenues and slots players.

newarenanow wrote:But that is also where they are getting their revenue projections, saying tons of people will be there all hours of the day. If what you are saying is correct, then their revenue projections should drop significantly.

Basically, FC is saying they are going to get the most people with the least traffic. One doesn't work with the other. YOu may be right, but then they'd have to lower their revenues and slots players.

Fair enough. I'm only speaking of the traffic flow, not any trickle down further into the proposal.

Frankly, I'd be willing to bet that all three probably grossly overestimated how much money they will bring in. For those who dont gamble, but think this will be fun, slots are about as boring as it gets. It will be a novelty at first, but I believe it will fade and eventually lead to table gaming.

Stoosh, maybe I'm reading it all wrong, but are you saying it could be a two horse race between the IOC and Barden, with Barden's only concerns being the Steelers? And that PITG could very well end up with the license.

The worst thing that could happen is a delay though. I just want an answer today so we can start celebrating for the IOC, or move forward with Plan 'B'. YOu know if they delay, it will be pushed off until after the holidays into January. That would be horrible for the PEns.

Based on what I heard, I wouldn't call it two-horse race between IoC and Barden. My buddy's connection said that no one really has any idea who is going to win this (which is good for IoC in a way because it shows that gaming board is at least listening).

A few things to add...

1. I think this all means that Forest City is nowhere near the slamdunk that some thought it would be, including the FC people themselves. I've read before that there was a rumor that some members of the gaming board were put off by FC's rather arrogant approach to the entire process. My buddy's connection pretty much confirmed it. Basically, there are members of the gaming board who believe that FC just kind of half-assed the whole thing, from their initial presentations to the way they handled much of the paperwork to their overinflated revenue projections to the way they pooh-poohed the traffic problems at the hearings here in September. You know the phrase "just doing enough to win?" It's almost like FC thought they'd be able to sign up Harrah's, throw out some numbers that were just better than the others, and that would be enough. Some members of the gaming board were not thrilled because they believe FC vastly underestimated their competition and kind of came across like they regarded the gaming board as idiots.

2. There are other concerns with Majestic Star - notably, their plan doesn't call for a temporary casino (the other two have temp. casinos built into their plans), and that would delay the arrival of slots here by a year or so. I've also heard that the gaming board loves their location.

3. I can't stress this enough...the traffic situation with FC is much more important to this board than people realize. They are concerned about traffic tie-ups on weekends, particularly during the evening and nighttime hours when traffic is at it's heaviest on the South Side. And again, the board was not thrilled with Forest City's very cavalier approach to finding a realistic solution.

4. One more thing that cannot be stressed enough here. The gaming board is fully aware of the public perception of these plans. For reasons other than the arena, they know the IoC is the popular plan and they understand all the concerns that the people have with the FC plan.

Also, a delay on its face would be problematic for IoC because the Pens are essentially on a timetable here. But I heard more than a few people say yesterday that if Forest City is going to win this thing, they have to win it today. If this goes to a delay, it would indicate some very serious reservations about the FC plan.

I'm not expecting a delay. I heard some gaming people on the news this morning talk about it and all of them said a delay is very unlikely.

I drive thru the South Side everyday at rush hour...and I will tell you that it's horrible. East Carson is bumper to bumper from Station Square all the way down to the FBI Building and beyond....both ways. A single lane going each way will not be able to hold the traffic of a casino + rush hour traffic. It's going to be a mess.

King Sid the Great 87 wrote:People that live in Pittsburgh have no idea what traffic is all about.

I do agree with that. GO to DC or LA and it is 10 times worse.

As for SS, traffic is bad, but not as bad as people are saying. But on another note, I don't think it will help it out with a casino there.

I definitely agree with the casino causing traffic problems.

As devils advocate: one of the foundations of the new arena is the number of new events that it will be able to house. What about all of the traffic problems that will occur on nights that there is an event when a slots parlor is right next to it?

The whole point is, debates like this could go on and on forever. Unless you sat in the deliberation rooms and were at every presentation, there is no way anybody can cry "FIX!" (not that you are new) There are 1000's of variables the average person has never even thought to consider.

newarenanow wrote:But that is also where they are getting their revenue projections, saying tons of people will be there all hours of the day. If what you are saying is correct, then their revenue projections should drop significantly.

Basically, FC is saying they are going to get the most people with the least traffic. One doesn't work with the other. YOu may be right, but then they'd have to lower their revenues and slots players.

Fair enough. I'm only speaking of the traffic flow, not any trickle down further into the proposal.

Frankly, I'd be willing to bet that all three probably grossly overestimated how much money they will bring in. For those who dont gamble, but think this will be fun, slots are about as boring as it gets. It will be a novelty at first, but I believe it will fade and eventually lead to table gaming.

Old people love slots. The pour in from all over. But , I doubt anyone can really estimate the acutal money they will make. I do know that West Virginia slot parlors are packed.

Stoosh, maybe I'm reading it all wrong, but are you saying it could be a two horse race between the IOC and Barden, with Barden's only concerns being the Steelers? And that PITG could very well end up with the license.

The worst thing that could happen is a delay though. I just want an answer today so we can start celebrating for the IOC, or move forward with Plan 'B'. YOu know if they delay, it will be pushed off until after the holidays into January. That would be horrible for the PEns.

Based on what I heard, I wouldn't call it two-horse race between IoC and Barden. My buddy's connection said that no one really has any idea who is going to win this (which is good for IoC in a way because it shows that gaming board is at least listening).

Ok, I was just trying to find your element of suprise. If it was that PITG is not a long shot that everyon thought, I've thought for the last 3 months they were rightup there with the other two plans, and also have had some advantages.

Like you said, and I think too, a delay would hurt the PEns the most. If this is going to be done, get it done today. I really hope the Board takes into consideration not only the people in Pgh's thoughts, but the Pgh Gaming Board recommendation also. Only one more hour until this crap starts. I'm getting very nervous and I don't think I'll get much work done.

As devils advocate: one of the foundations of the new arena is the number of new events that it will be able to house. What about all of the traffic problems that will occur on nights that there is an event when a slots parlor is right next to it?

There are more than 2 ways into that area, but on the South Side you are stuck with only 2 options. If an emergency were to occur there (IoC), there would be a number of routes for emergency crews to take.

No matter what you think about there are a 1000 of variables, there is one true constant, and that is the South Side is not capable of supporting this additional traffic. And that has nothing to do with if you think we Pittsburghers have no clue what traffic is, that is a very FLAWED argument.

Ron` wrote:Kid, I think the point is you made a broad statement that people here and in Pittsburgh have no idea what traffic really is, implying most are idiots....

No, the point I'm making is that they may not have experienced traffic in a big city. Nothing more, nothing less. Of all the cities I have been too, Pittsburgh is a walk in the park.

If Pittsburgh wants to be a city with 3 sports franchises and a big casino, additional traffic is something that might come as a result.

I think people realize that traffic will increase, but the worst place for it to increase is the SouthSide only because the roads there aren't even equiped to handle the traffic now. Also I don't see anyway the roads can be improved there as well.

As devils advocate: one of the foundations of the new arena is the number of new events that it will be able to house. What about all of the traffic problems that will occur on nights that there is an event when a slots parlor is right next to it?

There are more than 2 ways into that area, but on the South Side you are stuck with only 2 options. If an emergency were to occur there (IoC), there would be a number of routes for emergency crews to take.

No matter what you think about there are a 1000 of variables, there is one true constant, and that is the South Side is not capable of supporting this additional traffic. And that has nothing to do with if you think we Pittsburghers have no clue what traffic is, that is a very FLAWED argument.

If Harrah's was the one the Pens teamed up, 99% of the people here would be saying that its a good idea to but the casino in an already busy area, rather than clogging up another part of the city.