BREAKING: What you see isn't real, Donald Trump once said!

All day long, cable pundits had staged one of their trademark stampedes/mental breakdowns. Yesterday's trademark mental breakdown concerned what Rudy had said.

Rudy had said it on Sunday's Meet the Press. Five minutes into last night's program, Brian presented Rudy's statement like this:

WILLIAMS (8/20/18): Robert Costa, we're going to play for our audience the moment heard around the world from Meet The Press this weekend. We'll talk about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIULIANI: I'm not going to be rushed into having him testify so that he gets trapped into perjury. And when you tell me that, you know, he should testify because he's going to tell the truth and he shouldn't worry, well, that's so silly, because it's somebody's version of the truth. Not the truth. He didn't have a conversation—

TODD: Truth is truth. I don't mean to go, like—

GIULIANI: No, no, it isn't truth! Truth isn't truth!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: So Robert, is that just the era we've entered, where the president's lawyer can go on television and say things without consequence?

Truth isn't truth! How crazy! It was, in Brian's words, "the moment heard around the world."

As cable hacks had been doing all day, Brian chose to edit the video clip right there. It made for a wonderfully weird-sounding clip. The pundits all gamboled and played!

Of course, if you simply played the fuller clip from Meet the Press, Giuliani's actual point was perfectly clear. The fuller clip from Meet the Press even included Todd telling Giulinai that his basic point was right.

And the basic point Giuliani made was in fact perfectly clear. Here's how the fuller exchange really went if you didn't play the pundit corps' reindeer games:

GIULIANI (8/19/18): I'm not going to be rushed into having him testify so that he gets trapped into perjury. And when you tell me that, you know, he should testify because he's going to tell the truth and he shouldn't worry, well, that's so silly, because it's somebody's version of the truth. Not the truth. He didn't have a conversation—

TODD: Truth is truth. I don't mean to go, like—

GIULIANI: No, no, it isn't truth! Truth isn't truth! The president of the United States says, "I didn't—

GIULIANI: If you're such a genius—Don McGahn doesn't know. If that's the situation, where you have two pieces of evidence, Trump says I didn't tell him and the other guy says that he did say it, which is the truth?

TODD: At that point, you're right. Under two people. No. You're right. I don't read minds on that front.

Let me ask you this final question—

GIULIANI: No, no, no, no, let me finish. We have a credibility gap between the two of them. You've got to select one or the other. Now, who do you think Mueller is going to select? One of his best friends, Comey? Or the president who he has been carrying on a completely wild, crazy, unorthodox investigation?

Even before Giuliani said "Let me finish," Todd had said he was right. Beyond that, it was perfectly obvious what Giuliani was saying here. He was saying this:

Trump will say that he didn't talk about Flynn with Comey. Comey will say that he did.

Mueller will have to decide who's telling the truth. Because Comey is "one of his best friends," Mueller will say that Comey is telling the truth, even if Donald Trump is actually telling the truth.

There's nothing confusing about that. There's nothing crazy about that. It turns on the world's most obvious point:

Sometimes, when Person A tells the truth, Person B will decide that he is lying. In that case, the truth won't be accepted as the truth. How dumb does a person have to be to find this matter confusing?

In truth, a person doesn't have to be dumb at all; he or she merely has to be part of the mainstream press corps. They've gone on these stampedes of tortured interpretation and faux paraphrase many times before this, resulting in death all over the world.

Todd was saying he understood what Giuliani meant. But as they did when they spent two years inventing all the crazy things Candidate Gore was said to have said, they wanted to gambol and play and behave like all-around fools.

Guest hosting on MTP Daily, Katy Tur even said this:

TUR (8/20/18): Gosh, I felt bad for Chuck Todd this weekend, guys. I wanted to give him a hug, because the idea of somebody looking you in the eye, through a camera or not, and saying "truth isn`t truth" is just completely absurd.

Rudy Giuliani tried to clean it up by saying he wasn't talking about moral theology, which I don't know what that is.

Poor Katy! She doesn't even know what that is! Plus, she wanted to hug poor Chuck!

Katy Tur isn't even remotely stupid. Plainly, though, she's prepared to play stupid on TV in her role as a big cable star. (In effect, she aped the many former athletes who go on TV and pretend they can't understand three-syllable words.)

That said, this whole episode turns on what Williams did. The whole episode turned on cutting the videotape before Giuliani makes his explanation, which isn't confusing at all.

Once he makes his explanation, his point is perfectly clear. "At that point, you're right," poor huggable Chuck even said.

(That doesn't mean that Trump's denial would actually be the truth, of course. It simply means that Giuliani's point was perfectly clear.)

Before we close with something truly egregious, let's recall our own larger point. At the start of the year, we told you it's all anthropology now. In part, we meant this:

There's no point in expecting these puzzling people to perform their important roles in an intelligent fashion. All that's left is the attempt to explain why they behave as they do.

Our explanation is this:

They're Aristotle's apes! They're the slightly modified "great apes" described as part of the instructive Harari heuristic.

These utterly silly folk aren't "the rational animal" at all. They're unintelligent tribal players, whose ancestors developed the abilities 1) to gossip and 2) to invent and believe group "fictions" 70,000 years ago.

They're going to clown and stampede on a regular basis. Truth to tell, they aren't especially bright, and they aren't especially honest. They're the ancestors of great apes who, through a set of chance mutations, gained the abilities to gossip and traffic in fictions.

In this case, their stampede turned on stopping that videotape before Giuliani explained his point. It turned on cutting the tape right where he said "truth isn't truth."

You had to cut the tape right there, so that's what these idiots did. (This used to be known as "the Maddow edit.") At that point, the apes began to fling their poo all about, just as they've ever done.

The whole thing turned on pretending that Giuliani didn't explain what he meant. That brings us to Steve Kornacki, who cable news finally owns.

KORNACKI (8/20/18): It happened yesterday on Meet the Press. Rudy Giuliani said something that absolutely lit the political world on fire.

He said, "Truth isn't truth."

[...]

If you happened to blink on Sunday and miss it, though, here is the full exchange:

GIULIANI: And when you tell me that, you know, he should testify because he's going to tell the truth and he shouldn't worry, well, that's so silly, because it's somebody's version of the truth. Not the truth. He didn't have a conversation—

TODD: Truth is truth. I don't mean to go, like --

GIULIANI: No, no, it isn't truth! Truth isn't truth! The president of the United States says, "I didn't—

TODD: "Truth isn't truth," Mr. Mayor, do you realize what—I, I, I—

"Here is the full exchange," Kornacki said. Then, he played that one small part of the exchange. That's where he clipped the tape.

That's the essence of cable news, indeed of our mainstream journalism. For at least the past thirty years, people like Kornacki have agreed to play the public in these brain-dead ways.

People are dead all over the world because of what these amended great apes have done. But they do it, and they do it, and they do it again. Yesterday, they did it all day long, ending with Brian's edit.

41 comments:

I don't know if ad hominem hurts or helps, but it is certainly the order of the day here, and, with more sadness than rancor, it is impossible to escape the fact Bob Somerby is an idiot.

If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. And really, neither does Bob Somerby. He has some strange score to settle with evil wise guy liberals, and those who check back in from time to time to see this car accident get nothing but this kind of garbage. And YES, yes, soon enough we will look away for good. I promise.

You call these idiots who represent Democrats on cable news "liberals"? They aren't remotely liberal and neither is the Democrat party in 2018. It's a conglomeration of free speech hating, identity obsessed crazies.

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Giuliani is trying to slime Mueller. He is not merely making an honest "simple" argument. He is alleging that Mueller would simply choose to believe Comey because Comey is his "friend", and not look at the evidence to make his determination. In so doing, Giuliani is ascribing Trump-like behavior to Mueller. (And Comey by the way).

Bob, everybody is wrong in the “Truth isn’t Truth” incident. Giuliani’s point is a complete dodge. Mueller is not the “trier of fact” like a judge so, who cares if he is friends of Comey? Giuliani says you have a classic case of two versions. I would hope that no case would hinge on who you believe (really, no one gets it exactly straight) and this one does not. Everyone in the world has seen Trump lie massively – says and has us believe one thing then just moments later says the complete opposite. He may well have been sued by more people for cheating than any other man on Earth (not meant to be taken literally.) Clearly, he cannot tell the truth. Giuliani is not worried about just that one thing – in fact, I’ll bet he does not care about that at all. He is afraid - terrified that Trump is going to lie about things that have already been proven to be false statements. He is going to say things like he never met a Russian – or admit that when he said these and millions of other ridiculous things in the past he was lying to cover his… what?? dealings with Russia? For what purpose?

Mueller isn't the trier of fact, but he has to decide whether there is sufficient evidence to bring charges. He would probably go after a perjury charge only if there is clear undeniable evidence. The Comey/Flynn matter is more about obstruction of justice anyway.

I think one thing we can all agree on is that Benedict Donald is a chickenshit coward who will never sit his fat lying ass in the witness chair to answer Mueller's questions. The idiotic media keeps playing along with Giuliani and President Chickenshit as though they're actually seriously considering letting him stand up like a fucking man and answer the damn questions. This is a goddam serious investigation and a real president would recognize he owes it to the country to set the record straight, let the chips fall where they may. But of course this depraved lying sack of shit narcissistic mentally unstable man-child is too small to ever put the country ahead of himself. That's what we can all agree on.

Bob is right that the media are horrible at their job, but he's way too forgiving to Giuliani here. First, "the truth isn't the truth" is ridiculous - just because there's a conflict of testimony on a particular fact doesn't mean that one or the other (or maybe neither) is the "truth." It just means that we may never be able to determine the truth, which is a very different thing.

Second, Giuliani was essentially saying that, because Trump is going to say something that conflicts with Comey's testimony, then Trump shouldn't have to testify because we'll never know the truth. That's even more ridiculous, and would mean that Trump gets to avoid testifying under oath because someone on his behalf says - not under oath - that his testimony would be a waste of time because he's going to say the opposite of what someone else said. Trump shouldn't get to avoid testimony on that basis. After all, maybe he will tell the truth under oath and agree with Comey. Maybe there's some objective way to determine who is telling the truth, and it's important to get everyone to testify so that we know who's lying. I'm sure that there are other reasons.

In short, I don't agree with too many on this site that Bob is "losing it" in any way, but I must admit that his arguments tend to be a bit weaker than they have historically been.

Jonny - I agree that the possibility of conflicting testimony is not a legal reason for Trump to avoid testifying. Nor is the possibility that Trump's loose way of talking could result in his lying under oath. However, these are reasons why it's in Trump's interest not to testify.

IMHO Trump's best legal reason to not testify is that there's no evidence showing any likelihood that he committed a crime. The claim that firing Comey was Obstruction of Justice is preposterous, for a number of reasons. So far, there's nothing in the public record indicating that Trump illegally colluded with Russia. Under these circumstances a President should not be required to testify.

The problem is that Giuliani has been talking about he said-he said in response to questions about a perjury trap. This is not what a perjury trap is. A perjury trap is where a person is confront with his own words and shown to have lied. It is not when one person says one thing and another says something different. But Giuliani is pretending that this he said-he said is Trump's problem with being questioned.

A good section of the public doesn't know what "perjury" means. That lets Giuliani muddy the water, as he has been doing. His lawyers are concerned that he will lie and contradict himself within his own testimony.

A perjury trap is where a person is confront with his own words and shown to have lied.

This is incorrect. A perjury trap is set when a prosecutor has evidence about an action that a suspect would be inclined to conceal, the prosecutor asks the suspect about the action hoping to elicit a lie, and the action has nothing to do with the matter under investigation. In other words, a perjury trap poses a question for the sole purpose of getting the subject to lie in a line of inquiry that doesn’t advance the prosecution’s case.

This is considered prosecutorial misconduct.

Trumpsters, who avoid the truth the way vampires avoid sunlight, would have you believe that a perjury trap is set when a prosecutor

- asks questions about things a suspect would be inclined to conceal, hoping that the suspect will lie,

- asks questions to which the prosecutor knows the answer, hoping that the suspect’s responses will differ from the evidence, or

- asks questions to elicit a recollection from a suspect that differs from the answers given by other witnesses.

Perjury-Trap Doctrine. (1989) The principle that aperjury indictment against a person must be dismissed if the prosecution secures it by calling that person as a grand-jury witness in an effort to obtain evidence for a perjury charge, esp. when the person's testimony does not relate to issues material to the grand-jury's ongoing investigation.

Here's a real example of truth not being truth, and it doesn't even involve two contradictory testimonies. Scooter Libby testified that he didn't remember something that had occurred in the past. The jury decided that he must have remembered that fact. They convicted him of perjury. Libby was sentenced to 30 months in prison, a fine of US$250,000, and two years of probation (supervised release) after the expiration of his prison term.

BTW Libby was not at all involved in releasing Valerie Plame's name, which is what the investigation was supposed to be about.

Scooter Libby was convicted of obstruction of justice, two counts of making false statements to the FBI and two counts of perjury to the grant jury. He lied to the FBI and the grand jury. In doing so, he contradicted his own previous statements to several members of the press. So, yes, he did contradict his own previous statements when he said he "didn't remember" something he had said previously to reporters on several occasions. Of course the jury didn't believe him. It is against the law to lie to the FBI and under oath.

This is exactly the jeopardy the president will be under if he says he doesn't remember something he tweeted about, or contradicts something he said at a rally, or even contradicts himself during questioning. You cannot say "I don't remember" about something you've already made public, especially not to cover up a crime (as Libby did).

Scooter honored the tradition of past treasonous Republicans' code of Omerta. In the time honored tradition of G. Gordon (just tell me where to stand and I'll take a bullet) Liddy, Golly Olly North (most recently seen being installed by Russians to run the NRA) and many others.

Not like that RAT John Dean. Right David, you fucking treasonous bastard?

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Bad news for Donald Trump: Former presidential lawyer Michael Cohen claimed he violated campaign finance law at the direction of President Donald Trump during the 2016 presidential campaign, while pleading guilty in a New York Court Tuesday.http://dailycaller.com/2018/08/21/cohen-violated-campaign-law-trump/

Since Trump and his GOP bootlickers have been nothing but bad news for the US and the World since he was installed into the White House by his creditors, turnabout is fair play, wouldn't you say, David in Denial?

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I guess it's fitting that on this, a day offering some solid hope that the Trump nightmare might be endured, that Bob hits what is perhaps an all time low.

No Bob, two people having a differing account of an event does not mean their is no such thing as truth; not it life, not in Court, not in an objective universe. Two differing accounts do not have the same credibility just because they differ. Only blind, pathological hatred of journalists could lead you to such an embarrassing conclusion.

What is driving Bob nuts, obviously, is that however ham fisted and cutsy poo MSNBC has often been on the Trump hunt, all the passing of t time continues to show is that they have been correct, something they could have easily gleaned from listening to Hillary Clinton.

Sadly, Bob could be serving a useful purpose here, reminding us that Trump is a product of the media and the political media (NOT, as Bob would have it, just the left media.), we should be reminded how the likes of Mo Dowd welcomed this bastard with open arms.

As we learn more about how Trump's money laundering years and how they were where this all started, we might ask "Where was the New York Times? Too busy with Whitewater?" But Bob has been d driven round the bend. Or, as I noticed he has not made an appeal for cash in a long time, one wonders if maybe he found a right wing suger daddy.

"People are dead all over the world because of what these amended great apes have done."

All of the generations of people from those first rock makers are dead now, no matter where in the world they lived. Even the current generation will die at some point. And they are dead because those first great apes birthed them. That was their first great sin.

Somerby uses his complaints as shorthand now, as bits and pieces of things he may have explained fully in the past but merely alludes to now. And those things make very little sense any more.

Of course people are dead all over the world. And more will die. Because everyone dies. That is the price of life.

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Hmmmm, Rudy's right, this is a tough one. Who to believe. A corrupt, draft dodging, real estate carny barker who lies on a daily basis, or a guy with impeccable academic credentials with a decades long bipartisian history of public service.

That's a tough one. Yes, of course, we should go with the liar who is trying to save his own sorry hide. This site boggles the mind. It's even better than thonion.

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