Here are some responses to an article describing a new initiative of the Southern Baptist Convention to reach out to gay men and women collected from a secular message board I visit on occasion. The thread is here the article is quoted at the beginning of the thread. It basically tells of a new nationwide initiative among SBs to "hate the sin and love the sinner," with nothing particularly inflamatory. Here are some responses, the article is titled, Baptist Convention to "Save" Gays:

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"Save them for what?"

"Oh no.. A Christian church is trying to get people to turn from sin and accept Jesus! What will they think of next!!!"

"...so who's going to save the Baptists?"

"Well, it's "sinful" only because they have defined it as such. It's "destructive" only because intolerant people like him persecute homosexuals. Remind me who needs redemption?"

"Well, if the definition of a bigot is "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices (source: Merriam Webster Online)" then yes, disagreeing with the gay lifestyle does make you a bigot. You're not accepting them for what they are, and you're imposing your own opinions and prejudices on the situation."

"It's **** like this that makes me have absolutely no respect for organized religion."

"When are the Baptists going to save the rich?The Bible speaks out against wealth and greed way more than it does about homosexuality, yet you never hear about right-wing conservative crusades to save the rich. Hmmm."

"'Love the sin but hate the sinner'---Aimee Mann"

"I want to join a group to convince heterosexuals to become homosexuals. I just know I could help them since my ego is so inflated."

"So you're saying that the bible speaks out "against" homosexuals?"

"I actually see this as a softening of their position, not the instigation of some horrible new conversion-brigade...I would love it if a group of Southern Baptists decided to "befriend" me... As long as they were truly friendly about it... I suspect I'd change them long before they changed me..."

"Sounds like an initiative denouncing hate and encouraging compassion to me. Sounds like they are deciding that criticism and extreme intolerance have done nothing but push people away. Sounds like they are trying to right some of their past wrongs. I guess the gay community will never be happy until Southern Baptists say homosexuality is ok, have at it. That's not going to happen so can you agree that at least this is a step in the right direction? Some of the wording they use such as "save" and "sinful, destructive lifestyle" is offensive, I will admit. I wish the leadership would be more sensitive and tactful in their statements, but I don't think they mean to be billigerent."

"I'd like to know how many closeted gays are going to be at that revival, in the audience of the 'faithful.' Something tells me we'd find a few of 'em."

"How friendly is their friendship? Like...if i see a hot guy walking down the street...will they keep me from smiling at him or staring? Will they try and set me up on dates with their sisters or cousins? And if they did, who would THEY date???*sigh*They don't know what they're getting themselves into."

"Who's scared? I think it's great. I'm gonna take em to a gay club and show em how to boogie this weekend."

"Maybe it is time to dump all this religious crap and just go back to being people. Then there might be some personal responsibility for things rather than falling back on "Well god wants me to do this.""response"Or maybe all the athiests could just push their agendas without any competition."response"and then maybe we wouldn't have to put up with groups using the amorphous god concept as supporting their position against all the other groups who have a different concept."response"Yeah, then the world would hold hands and there would be no war."

"If someone sincerely wants to try to "re-orient," I wish them all the luck in the world, with or without their religion of choice. I won't say it's impossible. I will say that the more successful and honest approach is to find a healthy life within the orientation that comes naturally to them. And I will say that most marriages based on this "foundation" are irresponsible, sad, and doomed."

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"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."-Yazid Ibrahim

These folks are pretty offensive to me and arrogant in their remarks, even if they are speaking of Baptists and not Catholics or Orthodox.

For one, they seem pretty "set" in their belief that homosexuality is 100% okay to practice ("healthy" they call it--what is healthy for the body is not always healthy for the soul--see fasting. There is also the thorn of AIDS).

Not only do they believe it so strongly, they also force it on others who are trying to lead virtuous family lives.

They paint with a broad brush--i.e. anything related to Christianity is fair game--and they discriminate against Baptists in several ways. And gosh, we God folk are "intolerant" and the cause of war. Also, if you strictly adhere to a belief, then you are a "bigot" (However, St. Paul never saw faith as intellectual choice, but rather Life in Christ--so I might agree here). Disagreeing--charitably--with the homosexual lifestyle does not make you a bigot.

I do agree that the rich need to be saved much more than those who struggle with homosexuality.

I only defend the Baptists here because it's not fair to bare false witness and because many Baptists come to Orthodoxy through getting parts of the truth. Alas, that does not make me tolerant enough for these people. :cwm38:

We are obviously going to hold the traditional Christian position on this, however, how can we respond to just these posts without seeing the document they are responding to?

If you've talked to unchurched 20-something crowd (and younger and older) you know it is hard to defend a sexual morality (or almost any morality) based on God when they just don't believe in Him.

In some way some of these posts may be accurate assesments of some "Christians" these folks have come in contact with, don't you think?

Remember our Lord's reply when asked about the greatest commandment and the next greatest. I hope we all love our neighbor as (we love) ourselves.

I was visiting a Catholic priest-friend (some shudder) recently and there was some guy in a truck with a speaker driving around the block with a tape of preaching "the rosary wont save you!" Well, of course not, but that was not very effective IMHO, in fact basically hateful. When I was growing up (Protestant in the South) I encountered much the same attitude -- you know what? It made me curious to learn about Catholicism.

Just some rambling thoughts before sufficient caffeine is rushing through my veins.

Tony

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Tómame como al tequila, de un golpe y sin pensarlo. - Ricardo Arjona

I'd be a fool to surrender when I know I can be a contender and if everbody's a sinner then everybody can be a winner ...I'll see you when yo

I agree with all of you. These modern attitudes towards religion are baffling to me, and I'm not quite sure how to respond, which was probably the primary motivator for me posting this topic. Orthodoxy has a way of bringing someone to Christ and improving life that is hard for secular people to even comprehend after being inundated with hypocritical televangelists and RCC scandals. I wonder how one could even begin to offer them hope in God that doesn't come off as what they have already written off mentally as so much tripe.

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"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."-Yazid Ibrahim

It's not any better on Christian websites than on secular ones; I'm still over at CBBS occasionally and there is a discussion going on about shacking up prior to marriage. It's a Christian site and I'm LOSING when I try to point out that no one should be shacking up! It is sad and disheartening that even professing Christians are defining morality for themselves rather than depending on God to do that for them. Just shows that once you separate yourself from The Church and from Holy Tradition, you start down a slope that leads to nothing good.

That's sad, Javamama. We all know what a joke that "Christianity.com" is, but that is ridiculous. I mean, it's one thing to not be perfect because of human frailty, but to justify such behavior with the Bible is disconcerting, especially when one is on "Christianity.com."

It's especially bad since they are kicking Orthodox people off the board. Then they allow people to discuss living together outside of marriage without kicking them off. That makes me wonder what they think goes on in Orthodox homes...

Javamama, I am surprised they still let you on; they banned me without even the courtesy of sending me an email.

There is a pretty decent site for interdenominational debate and discussion, www.christianforums.com. It has a couple of Orthodox moderators (our own Monkey, aka Philip, is one) and even an Orthodox forum. There are also several RC moderators, so the site is kept on an even keel and cannot go the whole "Whore of Babylon" route, although some still try to take it that way.

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The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.- Pope St. Hormisdas

Wow java ! You are still at CBBS. Come over to christianforums, we could use another good apologist. There is a nice safehouse there too where bashing or debating EOxy is not allowed. There are some nice folks over there too.

Wow java ! You are still at CBBS. Come over to christianforums, we could use another good apologist. There is a nice safehouse there too where bashing or debating EOxy is not allowed. There are some nice folks over there too.

Amen, Brother Oblio!

I have been really pleasantly surprised at how well things have gone over at christianforums. I expected otherwise. It seems to be a really good site.

« Last Edit: June 22, 2003, 12:10:11 AM by Linus7 »

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The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.- Pope St. Hormisdas