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If Babcock is trying to create 3 scoring lines and a grind/shutdown line, this is not the group of forwards to do it with, there are not enough scorers to fill 3 lines, plain and simple.

If you go with something like this:

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Hudler/Filppula/Franzen

Bertuzzi/Abdelkader/Cleary

Eaves/Helm/whomever

that gives us 2 stacked scoring lines and 2 wreckingball lines that also have some scoring potential.

No way Hudler or Filppula are going to be bumped down to the 3rd line in favor of Bertuzzi, at least not on a regular basis. Putting Bertuzzi together with Cleary and Abs will be one heck of a hard line to play against, they may not be the most scary line in terms of skill, but all 3 will crash the net (hopefully not all at the same time) and wear the opposing unit down, even if they spend their entire shift chasing the puck in the offensive zone, that is what a grinding line is supposed to do, forecheck and hit. The 4th line of Helm and Eaves + whoever will be our shut-down line, and having 2 4th-liners who hit double-digit goals last season is nothing to scoff at.

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cleary-abdelkader-bertuzzi - worst offensive line ever. not one of them can handle the puck, pass, or shoot. they would constantly be chasing the puck. and one of them sucks on defense. and only one of them hits anyone.

and enough of this 'big body bert' bullcrap. he might measure 6-3, 250 in the doctor's office. but he's about 5-8, 165 on the ice.

He's hard to move and blocks the goalie like an eclipse. He would have a role on that line. He could be a good compliment to Cleary and Abby. He's still a decent finisher. If they taped his stick to both of his hands, that line would probably be very tough to play against imo.

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Guest blueadams

Guest blueadams

cleary-abdelkader-bertuzzi - worst offensive line ever. not one of them can handle the puck, pass, or shoot. they would constantly be chasing the puck. and one of them sucks on defense. and only one of them hits anyone.

Oh, right. Let's go over this:

Shooting:

Cleary: 20-30 goal scorer when healthy. Check.

Bertuzzi: 20 goal scorer. Check.

Abdelkader: Developing, but he has shown flashes.

-----> So...is Homer a good 'shooter' too. He had a lot of goals, right?!? Those stats mean everything, right?? Standing in front of the net and getting garbage goals that others creat is now considered 'good shooting.' Okay. Cleary, Bertuzzi, and Abdelkader are all excellent shooters. You are 100% right.

----->I acknowledged that one of the three, abdelkader, could hit - "and only one of them hits anyone." If you're trying to tell me that Cleary, or Bertuzzi is any kind of a physical presence on the ice, then you simply haven't watched many games in the last year.

No offense, bud... but you're a moron.

----->I wouldn't throw rocks in a glass house there, bud. (I'd also think about actually, I don't know, WATCHING the games instead of just checking the stat lines). Its quite clear to me that you have no idea what you are talking about...and hence...are not worthy of another response.

Cleary has a career high of 20 goals, those coming with significant top 6 play, mostly with Zetterberg, also with the likes of Filppula and Hudler. The last time Bert broke 20 was 5 years ago as a top 6 forward in Vancouver. Both rely heavily on their linemates to generate offense. What makes you think either could be productive without a real playmaker on the line? With that line, we'd be lucky to get 15 goals from either. I wouldn't expect more than 10-12. Abdelkader has some promise, but he hasn't been so impressive to warrant much confidence. If he hits 10 goals we should be happy.

That line might not be terrible defensively, but they wouldn't be shutting anyone down either. The lack of any decent puck carrier would mean playing dump and chase. Bert is way too slow and too soft along the boards to help much there, but Cleary and Abs would do alright; just not enough to be any real threat on offense, or even generate consistent pressure or wear anyone down. Abby is not very fast, Bert is slow as dirt, and even Cleary might lose some speed after all those injuries. I could see them getting pinned in the defensive zone for big stretches, either wearing out our defensemen or giving up a lot of goals. They could hit, but not so much that it would have any real impact. They'd bang in a handful of goals, but not enough to be considered a scoring line, certainly not enough that we could depend on it.

So...average to below-average defense, near-zero puck possession, mediocre scoring, marginal hitting, and absolutely nothing special from any of them. If that's really what you all think we were looking for from our third line then please tell me again why giving Bert $2 mil for the next 2 years was such a great signing.

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This pretty much sums up how I was going to respond to this... minus calling him a moron. That might just fuel 3 extra line combo threads per week.

my exact though! haha

If Babcock is trying to create 3 scoring lines and a grind/shutdown line, this is not the group of forwards to do it with, there are not enough scorers to fill 3 lines, plain and simple.

If you go with something like this:

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Hudler/Filppula/Franzen

Bertuzzi/Abdelkader/Cleary

Eaves/Helm/whomever

that gives us 2 stacked scoring lines and 2 wreckingball lines that also have some scoring potential.

No way Hudler or Filppula are going to be bumped down to the 3rd line in favor of Bertuzzi, at least not on a regular basis. Putting Bertuzzi together with Cleary and Abs will be one heck of a hard line to play against, they may not be the most scary line in terms of skill, but all 3 will crash the net (hopefully not all at the same time) and wear the opposing unit down, even if they spend their entire shift chasing the puck in the offensive zone, that is what a grinding line is supposed to do, forecheck and hit. The 4th line of Helm and Eaves + whoever will be our shut-down line, and having 2 4th-liners who hit double-digit goals last season is nothing to scoff at.

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If Babcock is trying to create 3 scoring lines and a grind/shutdown line, this is not the group of forwards to do it with, there are not enough scorers to fill 3 lines, plain and simple.

If you go with something like this:

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Hudler/Filppula/Franzen

Bertuzzi/Abdelkader/Cleary

Eaves/Helm/whomever

that gives us 2 stacked scoring lines and 2 wreckingball lines that also have some scoring potential.

No way Hudler or Filppula are going to be bumped down to the 3rd line in favor of Bertuzzi, at least not on a regular basis. Putting Bertuzzi together with Cleary and Abs will be one heck of a hard line to play against, they may not be the most scary line in terms of skill, but all 3 will crash the net (hopefully not all at the same time) and wear the opposing unit down, even if they spend their entire shift chasing the puck in the offensive zone, that is what a grinding line is supposed to do, forecheck and hit. The 4th line of Helm and Eaves + whoever will be our shut-down line, and having 2 4th-liners who hit double-digit goals last season is nothing to scoff at.

Zadina, Veleno, Svechnikov, Kaski, Rasmussen all expected to start in GR unless they take preseason by storm

Yeah, prob'ly something like this. I won't be surprised if all the kids we want on that opening night roster -- Zadina, Cholowski, Rasmussen, Veleno -- start in GR. Though, on the other hand, I believe Yzerman has said he'll look to move out some players if kids end up stealing jobs in training camp.

FWIW, the thing I keep hearing about Yzerman is he wants ultra-competitive players. And that fact is always mentioned in the context of, like, "We're kinda surprised how adamant he is about this. Zero tolerance for Lazy and Sucks." I guess I'd like to think things had gotten stale under Holland and players generally weren't as motivated (internally and externally) as they should've been and that this accounts for some of our suckage over the past few years.

(I vaguely remember Tatar publicly saying Vegas's practices were much faster paced and much more intense than ours and that this came as a big surprise to him...)

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Yeah, prob'ly something like this. I won't be surprised if all the kids we want on that opening night roster -- Zadina, Cholowski, Rasmussen, Veleno -- start in GR. Though, on the other hand, I believe Yzerman has said he'll look to move out some players if kids end up stealing jobs in training camp.

FWIW, the thing I keep hearing about Yzerman is he wants ultra-competitive players. And that fact is always mentioned in the context of, like, "We're kinda surprised how adamant he is about this. Zero tolerance for Lazy and Sucks." I guess I'd like to think things had gotten stale under Holland and players generally weren't as motivated (internally and externally) as they should've been and that this accounts for some of our suckage over the past few years.

(I vaguely remember Tatar publicly saying Vegas's practices were much faster paced and much more intense than ours and that this came as a big surprise to him...)

Yeah. Hakan made a comment like this at the draft. Apparently Yzerman was very serious about this during pre-draft scout's meetings.

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So are we now going to pretend we think "compete level" is a good thing, and not a thing fans have been deriding since Babcock was here and blaming for the existence of Abby, Helm, and Glendening? I'm not quite up to speed on the New Covenant of Stevus yet.

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd be surprised if we have all of Helm, Abdelkader, Glendening, Ehn and de la Rose in the lineup. I'd also be surprised if we have none of Zadina, Veleno, Rasmussen, Cholowski or Kaski in the lineup.

It would only surprise me in the sense that it would mean everyone is healthy. I expect all the forwards (plus Svech) to be in the running. There are 5 spots up for grabs I'd say, so barring any new additions, I wouldn't be surprised if any of them make it, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if we'd rather have them down playing a big role in GR either. As much as everyone wants to think Yzerman is so different, he's the same guy who assigned Drouin to the AHL after a 32-point rookie season so he'd have room for Eric Condra.

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So are we now going to pretend we think "compete level" is a good thing, and not a thing fans have been deriding since Babcock was here and blaming for the existence of Abby, Helm, and Glendening? I'm not quite up to speed on the New Covenant of Stevus yet.

It would only surprise me in the sense that it would mean everyone is healthy. I expect all the forwards (plus Svech) to be in the running. There are 5 spots up for grabs I'd say, so barring any new additions, I wouldn't be surprised if any of them make it, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if we'd rather have them down playing a big role in GR either. As much as everyone wants to think Yzerman is so different, he's the same guy who assigned Drouin to the AHL after a 32-point rookie season so he'd have room for Eric Condra.

Probably because Drouin was/is a one dimension feather-assed lazy diva.

I can't wait for Yzerman to have his way with any of our kids if they start dragging and demanding.

Are you going to do the whole "ohhhhh so it's OK when Yzerman does what we ripped Kenny for doing REEEE !!!??" thing ALL the time? Or just for the summer?

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