discspeed wrote:It makes sense that at 425' you are going to be throwing an Orc as far as anything else when height is unlimited. However, the faster discs help you get there on lower lines and cut the wind better on the course. The style of courses you play will dictate what you are better off using.

The Champ Orc I traded for is broken in as I'm getting the 425' on a slight hyzer flip line drive less than 20' high. The Orc slowly turns over holds for a second or two then fades back to the original line so basically ending straight. I'm just struggling a little to turn my newish Sword over but when I do I feel like its a few degrees anny for a s-curve and presto 425'. However, too much hyzer and there's a hard fade way left or too much anny and I lose D because the s-curve is so wide or occasionally turn and burn it. My Z Nuke has to have all kinds of big high sweeping s-curve room to get 425'... not my favorite shot also no chance of me turning the Nuke over into the ground on a lower line.

I was throwing a Katana for Max D so perhaps my form would be better with a King as opposed to beating in my Sword to less HSS. I'm willing to work on my technique for better D as the Katana lost a lot of distance making its sweeping turn, was hard to control when thrown really hard or into a heady, and the rim is wider than the Sword. I'll search King and read up on it.

Half hitter here trying to buy a better game instead of going to the field to work things out...

JR wrote:Kings vary. My 165 has 1 mm lower outer edge and is 1 mm thinner all from the dome height i think than my 169. Totally different flights. 165 flips a lot and 169 likes flat releases or even a little anny.

Discspeed, does Clearwater have any lower weight Swords with a lower PLH and thinner similiar to the difference JR found in his 165 King flipper?

Thanks to all.

Today I went and played with my new 175 VIP Sword since I just lost the one I've been throwing for about 7 weeks. Even though it's completely deflashed, the new Sword is MUCH more stable than the one I had been using. I'm not sure how, but these discs break in fast for me. I did put some decent hits on my old Sword, but I'm surprised by how fast it got flippy. Until I broke this new one out I did remember when my Sword was much more stable, but I thought it might be the fact that I've been playing more lately or something. It's totally not me...The Sword breaks in really fast in VIP plastic. Hopefully I will know over the next few months if they break in and hold the stability, or keep getting flippier.

So for your case I would recommend that you just take a little time to break in a new Sword. It will give up the stability and be what you want before long. For reference, the Orc is one of my favorite drivers of all time and the first I broke 400' with (back in '04). It was the first that I did a lot of field work and I compare everything to them. The line you describe above is also how I like to throw distance (from a shallow hyzer angle). Any rim wider than the Orc has a smaller window of forgiveness in terms of how much hyzer is too much to totally ruin your intended line. That being said, I think the Sword is very forgiving if you compare to similar rimmed discs, and I would compare it to the Orc flightwise, it just does so at half the height.

Currently we do have a lot of the orange colorshift VIP Swords(lower PLH than the cobalt blues) in the upper 160s. I'll have to wait until I'm in the store to give you more specifics. I'll let you know via PM.

discspeed wrote: Even though it's completely deflashed, the new Sword is MUCH more stable than the one I had been using... So for your case I would recommend that you just take a little time to break in a new Sword.

This give me hope that my newish TP will lose HSS. No worries on the VIP for now I'll just do some power shots in the woods and practice some spike hyzers with my TP for a little while.

bill wrote:i've been throwing a gl flow for several months now and love it. you guys that have thrown it, is the flow closer to a king or a sword?

The Flow is to a Wraith what the Sword is to the Destroyer. The King is more like a better Katana.

I've only thrown one GL Flow and it was a lemon. One of the early blue flip monsters. Flow is between a Beast and Wraith. Flows pick up a lot of D thrown on s-curves. More so than Wraiths and Beasts in percentage of added D to line drive D. I think it hits the sweet spot of more speed than Beast with good maybe comparable glide and fading less than a Wraith. Sword is fast and fades more if you get the first run. Maybe it breaks in to straighter and longer dunno about second runs that have more dome.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

I was out throwing my VIP Sword in gusty headwinds (25 mph gusts, about 12 mph average winds) and loved it. A bit of hyzer kept it from flipping over and it penetrated nicely while holding a true line.

Even the TP Sword worked nicely but it needed more hyzer. It perhaps penetrated even better (it's flatter) but took a bigger S-curve to get the same distance as the VIP managed on a straight line.

Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.

That is the kind of flight i would expected based on plastic and FR vs second run Swords. What i don't like to see in any disc in gusts is an abrupt flip. My FR flat TP Sword flips instantaneously in a gust. Half a second and the disc has flipped as much as it will from a single gust.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

10 mph right to left crosswind on an 375' uphill today. Tried a Max D high flex shot that came out a little low... turned and burned. Okay it was more than a little low but I'm pretty sure my 7/10 Z Nuke wouldn't have hit the ground to the right.

More beating in required for this hyzer flip thrower. I'm impatient, anyone want to trade for their King?

You would need a King that does not have a horizontal edge but a one that has the outer edge drooping down a millimeter or so. With a small not semi tall dome. Drooping outer edge and thinner top makes the King hyzer flipper. Taller dome and no drooping of the outside edge does not turn for me at 400'.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

My 170 Tournament orange colorshift Sword, a 200' oak, and I had a bloody throwdown in the woods at Bull Hill today. Its amazing what 10 point blank powershots, 4 or 5 football spikes, and a few hit a cloud spike hyzers will do for everyone's understanding (oh yeah and I filed away the bottom rim fashing a couple months ago). After that fearsom altercation on the course today I took the bag to the practice field and had a max distance breakthrew. I had 4 Sword throws out of 10 around 450'. The big lightbulb for me was I'm finally visualing and hitting the big max D high turning distance line. My runup has been too straight and my throw too low and not turned over far enough to the right. I had a chill and froze for what felt like a minute when my Z Nuke s-curved out to 550'. My previous repeatable best was 445' with my well seasoned Champ Orc. I had another Z Nuke shot that snaked 510'. It's never clicked like it did tonight and I didn't want to leave the practice field.

The Sword didn't preform well into a headwind as it would turn over with a little anny and would fade/stall if too hyzered. I think I can figure it out but the margin of error is a lot smaller than with my Orc. The seasoned Orc doesn't have a lot of fade but its still got more HSS by a lot. My Nuke kills with a little anny on a less than 40' high tight s-ing heady line. Nuke was getting 440' distance on headwind shots with only a smallish turn and regretable too early stallout... more to learn, more practice required, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

For Max D 450' downwind, my Sword needed less room to work than the Orc. The straighter line I've been reading about in this tread was half the width and two-thirds the height room requirement of the Z Nuke. However, once I was seeing the higher line even the early stall out Z Nuke hucks were getting 460' downwind. I had a couple downwind Sword throws that sailed off pretty far to the right until I dialed back the torque it over wrist roll. I can't wait to show my friends what I've learned.

Thanks to all that have helped me here.

-"Baseball is 90% mental-- the other half is physical," -"I never blame myself when I'm not hitting. I just blame the bat, and if it keeps up, I change bats. After all, if I know it isn't my fault that I'm not hitting, how can I get mad at myself?"both Yogi Berrapeace

Yesterday wasn't a fluke as I had another good day at the practice field.

I had a lot more half-hits probably because I'm old and tired after playing two rounds yesterday followed by three hours of field practice. This morning I played a round of ball golf then went to Ultimate and stayed for another two hours to huck just my Max D discs (Nuke, Sword, Orc). I couldn't turn the Z Nuke over all the way like I did yesterday but the Sword was okay. My best Sword throw ever went 480' on a less than 30' high tight s-curve line. I had some more 450' Sword shots but they were generally 20' less than yesterday. I also tried a lot more flat golf lines and focused on more spin which the Sword handled well for better D than most of my Orc shots on a similar line. The Sword still faded out most of the time instead of turning over as far as I wanted. Like I said yesterday, I can see a light at the end of the tunnel.

That tree may see more of the Sword up close and personal if I still can't turn the Sword over on that golf line after I'm better rested if you know what I mean.

Sword turned and burned when I needed it today. #2 East at Shelby Forest is over 550' par 3 in the long position and half that length is throgh the woods. I had a 10mph tailwind and added 10-15 degrees anny and the Sword came out less than 15 feet off the ground and went way right. Not a good line so more field work required and possibly more tree work.

On another note, I did take just one Z Nuke throw between rounds. It crashed 20' high through a distant tree just as it was starting its forward flex/fade on a high anny max D line... still went 465'. I've just got to remember that the Sword is a throw it flatish controlled distance disc. Changing my sig.

Probably...I too have only thrown one Boatman. It was an orange tourney and I could only get any forward penetration if I released it dead flat or on an anhyzer. No matter the power, it would not glide forward on a hyzer much at all.