American King James VersionWho shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

American Standard Versionwho shall suffer punishment, even eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Douay-Rheims BibleWho shall suffer eternal punishment in destruction, from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his power:

Darby Bible Translationwho shall pay the penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his might,

English Revised Versionwho shall suffer punishment, even eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Webster's Bible TranslationWho shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Weymouth New TestamentThey will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, being banished from the presence of the Lord and from His glorious majesty,

World English Biblewho will pay the penalty: eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Young's Literal Translationwho shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,

2 thess 1:9 is one of the most controversial and blurred translation text in New testament. Some English bible version translate 2 thess 1:9 as ' eternal destruction From the face/ presence of Lord', while some bible version translate this verse as ' shut out / away / separated from the presence of Lord'.

Orthodox Christians who is from Greek Orthodox Church in Greece should use Greek language bible. It should be more accurated and closer to the original text and they can tell us that what is 2 thess 1:9 in the original context / Greek language bible.

Can some Orthodox Christians who is from Greek Orthodox Church in Greece help me to check what 2 thess 1:9 truely is and what it mean in Greek language bible or in orginal text ? 2 thess 1:9 means that the sinners will suffer eternal destruction from the Presence / face of Lord ?Or it means the sinner will eternal destruction away from, separated from, shut out from the Presence / face of Lord?

2 thess 1:9 is one of the most controversial and blurred translation text in New testament. Some English bible version translate 2 thess 1:9 as ' eternal destruction From the face/ presence of Lord', while some bible version translate this verse as ' shut out / away / separated from the presence of Lord'.

Orthodox Christians who is from Greek Orthodox Church in Greece should use Greek language bible. It should be more accurated and closer to the original text and they can tell us that what is 2 thess 1:9 in the original context / Greek language bible.

Can some Orthodox Christians who is from Greek Orthodox Church in Greece help me to check what 2 thess 1:9 truely is and what it mean in Greek language bible or in orginal text ? 2 thess 1:9 means that the sinners will suffer eternal destruction from the Presence / face of Lord ?Or it means the sinner will eternal destruction away from, separated from, shut out from the Presence / face of Lord?

I can't speak for the Greek, unfortunately. Hopefully someone else can. But in the meantime the official Romanian Orthodox version of the Bible reads as (as close as I can render it in English) 'They will take as punishment eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and the glory of His power'. I see no suggestion of separation from God at all there.

James

« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 01:00:23 PM by jmbejdl »

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We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

St. John Chrysostom seems to interpret that verse as meaning that the presence of God will be punishment to sinners and glory to the saved. I think I would take that as support for the earlier translations which read "from the presence."

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Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.

2 thess 1:9 means that the sinners will suffer eternal destruction from the Presence / face of Lord ?Or it means the sinner will eternal destruction away from, separated from, shut out from the Presence / face of Lord?

The Greek allows both interpretations of olethron aionion apo prosopou tou Kyriou ('eternal destruction from the face of the Lord'):

1) separative Genitive: "away from the face of the Lord".

2) as a Genitive of agent: it is the very 'face of the Lord' and 'the glory of his might' that cause the 'eternal destruction' (Heb. abadon 'olam).

This is clearly Semitic thought in Greek expression: when they spoke of God, they used such traditional anthropomorphic expressions like "face", "hand/arm" or "mouth" of Yahweh. Also, the image of God's glorious warrior-like appearance (doxa/parousia/epiphaneia) in the "Day of the Lord" is attributed to Christ.

I'd go for the second interpretation, especially since in the next chapter, there's an analogous passage about the destruction of the Antichrist with almost the same parallelism. Compare:

Words like "ontomological" and "phenomenological" make me want to punch someone in the face.

This is one of the many reasons I don't read philosophy. Nobody talks like that.

You're betraying very specific meta-epistemological pre-suppositions when you say that.

Wait, you can't have meta-epistemological pre-suppositions. Meta-epistemological implies that you already know, since it is meta epistèmè. One cannot have much pre-suppositions meta-epistemologically, that'd be silly.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 12:37:58 PM by Cyrillic »

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"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me"-Benjamin Disraeli

Words like "ontomological" and "phenomenological" make me want to punch someone in the face.

This is one of the many reasons I don't read philosophy. Nobody talks like that.

You're betraying very specific meta-epistemological pre-suppositions when you say that.

Wait, you can't have meta-epistemological pre-suppositions. Meta-epistemological implies that you already know, since it is meta epistèmè. One cannot have much pre-suppositions meta-epistemologically, that'd be silly.

Words like "ontomological" and "phenomenological" make me want to punch someone in the face.

This is one of the many reasons I don't read philosophy. Nobody talks like that.

You're betraying very specific meta-epistemological pre-suppositions when you say that.

Wait, you can't have meta-epistemological pre-suppositions. Meta-epistemological implies that you already know, since it is meta epistèmè. One cannot have much pre-suppositions meta-epistemologically, that'd be silly.

May I ask a related question please?I know that a play which refers to itself is a 'metadrama'.A film which refers to itself is a 'metafilm'.But what about a metafilm which includes sections of a metadrama?Would it be correct to say that it 'contains several layers of metatextuality'?I looked up the definition of 'metatextuality', and, in light of this, the above sentence doesn't make much sense.Does anyone have any suggestions for me to articulate what I am trying to say?