They have counters!

Replies

I know what B2 does since I use him. I also know what a liability he is regarding everything else beside dispeling. And that while the toons that he is countering have enough abilities for a couple more toons.

An good moddet zKrooper Duo has good cards to deal with Chase in an 2 vs 2 Match because of the bad KI the anti-rebel-synergies and Krennics Leadskill.

After Chirut first Turm, DT debuffs and inflicts Healing immunity, then DK uses his AOE calling DT to assist inflicting Daze and Stun on Chirrut. Next Baze maybe is doing minor Damage before Chirrut loses his stun. He is then abbillity blocked or stunned (or both) again by DT. Krennic will inflict buffblock on Baze and from this point on it's game Over for the Rebels

The main problem ... its all theory, there are no 2 vs 2 Matches and RNG sucks. ^^

Other problems :Krennic leadership is broken, also the RNG must be perfect for that strategy to work.

I know what B2 does since I use him. I also know what a liability he is regarding everything else beside dispeling. And that while the toons that he is countering have enough abilities for a couple more toons.

have you heard of Boba, Sun Fac, Nihilus, or Jyn/Cassian?

The names do sound familiar. What about them?

Boba executes Chaze for breakfast, so much that Boba is a priority for me.
Sun Fac/Nihilus dispels on basic, and Nihilus also increases CD
Nihilus instakills, making baze a liability of sort (so much health means Nihilus will eat that much health)
cassian under Jyn lead Exposes so much that you can kill BAZE in 1 shot after piling up exposes.
There you go, counters. Since I run Chaze and fight Chaze, I know of the things I have to look out for.

I know what B2 does since I use him. I also know what a liability he is regarding everything else beside dispeling. And that while the toons that he is countering have enough abilities for a couple more toons.

have you heard of Boba, Sun Fac, Nihilus, or Jyn/Cassian?

The names do sound familiar. What about them?

Boba executes Chaze for breakfast, so much that Boba is a priority for me.
Sun Fac/Nihilus dispels on basic, and Nihilus also increases CD
Nihilus instakills, making baze a liability of sort (so much health means Nihilus will eat that much health)
cassian under Jyn lead Exposes so much that you can kill BAZE in 1 shot after piling up exposes.
There you go, counters. Since I run Chaze and fight Chaze, I know of the things I have to look out for.

I know what B2 does since I use him. I also know what a liability he is regarding everything else beside dispeling. And that while the toons that he is countering have enough abilities for a couple more toons.

have you heard of Boba, Sun Fac, Nihilus, or Jyn/Cassian?

The names do sound familiar. What about them?

Boba executes Chaze for breakfast, so much that Boba is a priority for me.
Sun Fac/Nihilus dispels on basic, and Nihilus also increases CD
Nihilus instakills, making baze a liability of sort (so much health means Nihilus will eat that much health)
cassian under Jyn lead Exposes so much that you can kill BAZE in 1 shot after piling up exposes.
There you go, counters. Since I run Chaze and fight Chaze, I know of the things I have to look out for.

So what are you saying is that they have counters?

I'm saying that Chaze is powerful and borderline OP, but they ARE balanced.

I still can't understand where you are going. Can you elaborate what do you want to be done about this?
Toons are good against some toons and bad against others. If they were good against everyone then what would be the point of the game?

I still can't understand where you are going. Can you elaborate what do you want to be done about this?
Toons are good against some toons and bad against others. If they were good against everyone then what would be the point of the game?

What exactly in my post made you think that I want Chaze, or Wiggs, or Zaul or any other toon or pair to be good against anyone. I want exactly the opposite. I want every toon to have other alternatives from different factions just as good that bring as much to their team. Having to weaken your team by bringing in weaker toons just to counter one or 2 toons, or even worse, having to chose your entire line up of 5 toons just to counter 2 means that those toons are way OP, in my opinion of course.

I still can't understand where you are going. Can you elaborate what do you want to be done about this?
Toons are good against some toons and bad against others. If they were good against everyone then what would be the point of the game?

What exactly in my post made you think that I want Chaze, or Wiggs, or Zaul or any other toon or pair to be good against anyone. I want exactly the opposite. I want every toon to have other alternatives from different factions just as good that bring as much to their team. Having to weaken your team by bringing in weaker toons just to counter one or 2 toons, or even worse, having to chose your entire line up of 5 toons just to counter 2 means that those toons are way OP, in my opinion of course.

Yeah but you don't have to weaken your team just for 2 characters. A full Sith DN-lead team beats Chaze and 3x cleanse teams with DN at a >90% rate. Don't need B2. DN, Sith Trooper, SA, Dooku, and zSavage carve that team up really nice - been using it for over a month. The squad sticks in the top 20 overnight on a Nov '15 competitive shard. I'm originally a zDM like yourself, but haven't used him much in quite some time as my leaderboard went Rex / Cleanse pretty quick.

Now, R2 +Chaze though in some setups I can't use DN as effectively and I'm having to retool yet again. I understand the frustration because it feels like every iteration of the game just pivots around Chaze and as a player, they are who you generally have to play "around." Do I think that's ideal for a game, going on 6 months, to pivot around 2 characters? No! Should the answer to every question about how to improve most any team (Dark side even) be .."add Chaze"...No! I agree they are a too strong generally and do too much for just 2 characters. The thing I hate the most now though is why does Baze have 2 dispels? He's a tank that perma-taunts, yet he also eliminates your taunts to a great degree. Given that taunting has always been a huge skill for arena, the fact that he's a master at controlling taunts on offense and defense is a lot in one package.

They do not however meet my threshold of OP and deserving a nerf. They are the best - something has to be the best. They are beatable by multiple comps and not just gimmick teams that are garbage otherwise as is being suggested here. Do they shrink the usable roster? Sure a bit - but I think Wiggs and zDM shrank the roster more in the past.

@danflorian1984 I took a look at your roster and it's still developing. As you get more options things will open up. One huge character to have that helps vs. Chaze / R2 is General Kenobi. He's also a plug and play character that boosts most any team he's in. If you don't have Chaze / GK, you'll have to adjust in a harder fashion to new meta shifts than other players that do have them.

Some toons are always going to be better than others, typically these cost money or are hard to obtain.
Chaze is an example, but they can be beaten, granted, not easy, but can still be done.
Not sure why this is a problem?
If every squad is equal, why bother farming more characters?
The game rewards those with a deeper and broader roster, either obtained through effort or $$$.
As long as there is a way to beat any toon, i.e. they have a counter, it's fine, if you don't have it, either farm it, or look for an alternative solution.
Don't see a problem.
Only way to get all toons balanced is to all have the same skill set and attributes. That's exciting.

@danflorian1984 what works for me counter wise is rex lead, aalya, sunfac, zylo and boba (used to use 5's but in the process of modding him for raids with the other clones). And that's not even a good team. But the cool thing is when there's an AOE, they all go (except boba unless aalya calls him) and they do a great job.

Oh so we have reached the next level, after "they have counters" is " you can't beat them". Wrong, because of your dog poo of a pair I had to renounce my team and joined the Zaul meta, and now I can beat them just fine:https://swgoh.gg/u/danflorian1984/.

Just because I can beat them doesn't mean they aren't OP, just like my leader Zaul is OP, justblike another rebel pair, Wiggs, is OP on younger shards.

The difference between you and me is that while we both use OP, broken toons WITH COUNTERS, I actually admit it, and I would be fine with Zaul being nerfed for the sake of diversity in game. I CAN adapt playing outside the meta. I refused to use the rebels while leveling up, I can can start again from scratch using a new team. Can you say the same?

This has come up so many times. To the OP's credit, restating the issue, Baze is effectively a full team. Right, I mean, this isn't just "oh man, Dukes just took down my entire team, comeagainwut?" Please, most of us on this forum are well past that.

Most of us can take down Chaze too. I prefer Boba as the go to counter in a lot of instances, but whatever. Wiggs was never a full team, they were effectively annoying, and could burn a toon from the start, but still, it was a cheap trick, they were old (Nerf) Rey in an updated form. Zmaul is another cheap trick and he takes a team too. Rex is a laugh, I use my Arena team from this time in 2016 to defeat them! (and yes, the OP Rey is on it, LOLZ)

The point is these two toons are not a cheap trick. They have everything it takes to stand up to a plethora of challenges and they don't need much else. With GK it's a force to be reckoned with, and you can still slot in 2 more toons and it really doesn't have to be faction specific at all (which is fine, btw) The question is, should 2 toons be able to act as a stand alone team?

The other issue is the very concept of "OP is only a toon that breaks the game, or can ONLY be defeated by said toons, then no, there has never been an OP toon in this game.

I think the OP and other's who post need to re-frame. Nihil sub sole novum - so many games haven't gotten past rock-paper-scissors. Your askign for this game to be different in this respect -- and very few can creep up out of one of the oldest games of all time.....

So no, but I ask, should 2 toons be able to do what normally takes a 3-4 to accomplish?