The general explanation offered was that this is the game's worst time in its expansion to expansion cycle: it's only mere months before a new expansion comes out which leaves a huge lull of content and bored players in its wake. Additionally, Diablo III--which sold over 10 million copies, including 1.2 million from the annual pass--took many World of Warcraft players' attention away from Azeroth.

Comments

Comment by Soldrethar

@rank, sounds like a good idea, and there's another stress test tonight, I'll be trying necromancer which you said you wanted to play so you can ask me questions about that class as well.

Thanks man, really appreciate it, That's the class I'm the most interested in, and I want some feedback on it, try to use dual-daggers and invest as many trait points as possible on blood magic, I wanna know how viable their drain-damage is to sustain themselves in a fight.

Unfortunately, that post I told you about will have to be written later, I gotta step out for a while (my cat is sick again T_T gonna take her to the vet). However, there's a slight slew of points I will address here (since they aint so GW2 related). We will continue our discussion on GW2 on the proper thread, here we can talk about the current topic: Content, and the speed at wich its released.

Okie dokie lokie

They said, after MOP was announced, that they've gotten better at making expansions so they can make expansions faster, but if we look at their history, each expansion so far including MOP has taken longer than the previous.

This is simply not true bro' and you know it.

Cataclysm was announced on August 2009, and was released on December 2010. (1 year and 4 months later)

MoP was announced on October 2011, and will be released on September 2012 (9 months later)

I dunno about you, but 7 months of less development time is a heck of a speed increase. For MoP to take longer than cataclysm to be released, it would have to be released in March 2013 or after that date.

Hmm, well I was wrong about that..... I do recall an interview with a wow dev where they said they can make expansions quicker now since they're more experienced with them, and that they plan on releasing a minor patch every 2 months and a content patch every 4 months in MOP. Don't know how I'd find that article tho.......

So II'm really doubting content is going to come out any faster, probably slower since they got it into their heads that these "summer challenges" is an alternative to more frequent content

I think you got that wrong bro'.

The "Summer Challenges" are a laughable concept, but they're not proposing those as a way to avoid doing content, they ARE doing content, specifically an expansion. Please bear in mind that releasing more content for Cataclysm, means less people working on MoP, which in turn leads to MoP taking longer to develop.

What would you prefer? a half-assed filler raid like Ruby Sanctum in exchange for MoP taking another 3 extra months of development time? or no filler content (which does suck in many ways) but the expansion being released in less than a year since it was announced?

I dunno about you, but me, I prefer quality over quantity.

I know, but 9 months with nothing to do is very bad.

Releasing content faster is the only solution

Easier said than done.

Fair point.

they've claimed that they'll be releasing a minor patch every 2 months and a content patch every 4, which I severly doubt based on their history.

And yet ArenaNet says the same thing about GW2 and you believe them? Dude, game developers say stuff, just because they say it doesn't mean its written in stone, how many times did I told you that regarding blizz? Bioware said the same thing for SWTOR, ArenaNet says the same thing for GW2, the makers of Tera said the same thing about their game, and blizzard says the same thing about wow.

None of them can live up to the player's expectative of "faster content" because for a player "faster content" equals "less than a month each" and that's just not realistic. Making content for a game takes time, and you can either rush it up and release a half-assed bug-ridden piece of crap, or you can take your sweet time and release a polished product worthy of praise.

The problem is if you're a PVE player you have to grind gear in one gear tier in order to be able to participate in the next tier, and that can involve running the same few dungeons over and over until you're tired of them, if RNG isn't in your favor, and that gets old. The gear treadmill is the reason content dries up so fast, if there wasn't a gear progression that was necessary to partake in in order to experience the next level of content people wouldn't feel like they have to log in and spam dungeons all day, they wouldn't do it as frequently and thus the content would remain fresh longer.

and they'll think scenarios and pet battles will hold people longer, which may be true for people interested in those things, but for those who aren't......

Its not just those, MoP is bringing a lot of new stuff to the table, it really IS looking like the best expansion made so far for wow, asides from the pet battles (which for the avid collectors, a part of the population that is FAR BIGGER THAN YOU THINK, roughly 6 out of 10 players who are in wow are borderline OCD-levels of collector frenzy, Guardian Cub sales prove that much) and the scenarios, there's the challenge modes, there's the dailies (Which again, look a hell of a lot more varied and fun this time, there's a whooping total of 500 daily quests, rotating every day so that you don't just do the same one all the time) and lots of other things to do, like the farmville game (which again, holds a heck of a lot more appeal than you think)

All in all, things look promising for MoP.

A fair point as well. But that doesn't solve the problem for people who want to primarily do raids/dungeons, those people have to deal with long periods of time with old dried up content they don't care about anymore because they felt a massive complusion to grind the living daylights out of them so they could be ready for the next tier of content.

Kinda difficult to play while I'm choking the chicken to Twilight Sparkle's hot ass.

I didn't know that expecting new content to not take 9 months to come out makes me a whiner.

/sighs

"Content" doesn't take 9 months to be released. EXPANSIONS do, and expansions are more than just 1 raid, a few sets of armor, and maybe a new 5man. An expansion means a full continent, new races, new classes, new spells, a whole plethora of items, new EVERYTHING. Its reasonable that an expansion takes a while. I don't recall a content patch within an expansion to take 9 months. The longest waiting I've recalled was 4 months, and even then, we had Onyxia in the middle to make the wait more bearable.

Maybe they should hire more people then? *shrugs*

Comment by Entropyutd

on 2012-08-10T22:17:27-05:00

His comment was obvious trollbait, bear in mind

Actually it was a direct insult. But like everything else you are incapable of understanding that.You live in your own fruity little world and your way is the only way.

Comment by Magician22773

on 2012-08-11T01:41:16-05:00

I have said it before is other similar threads...

Take the best of each expansion, and weed out the worst.

One of the good parts of Vanilla and TBC is that there was not the hellish dead zone that we had at the end of Wrath and now Cata. Why, because end game content required linear progression, and many players were stuck in lower tiers.

So return to the linear model, but mix in a little bit of LFR and debuffing / buffing as time passes. In other words, keep end game content active longer. Lets just say an expansion had 5 raid tiers:

Guilds could progress at a quicker pace if they wanted (or were able), but as each new tier opened, the previous tier would get easier, but not be skippable alltogether. LFR mode would ensure that earlier tiers raids would still be populated, so no toon would be "stuck" in a lower tier. And every toon would see all the content.

Of all 9 of my max level toons, I have 1 of them that has seen every raid while it was current. I have 5 toons that have completed DS, that never set foot in Firelands. It is just "wrong" that my latest toon, a prot pally, never did a normal 5 man dungeon, never did a first tier 5 man heroic, or a troll heroic. I dinged 85, loaded up on crafted gear, valor BoE's, and AH gear, and went directly from questing to HoT's. 2 hours later, I was in LFR, and in under 5 days /played, I had completed my gear from DS normal. In less than 8 hours play time after hitting 85, I am "done" with this toon. Guild mains are done with DS Heroic, no one is going to pug more than 1 or 2 bosses in HC mode, and I have every slot BiS pre-heroic.

Comment by Soldrethar

on 2012-08-11T06:49:49-05:00

His comment was obvious trollbait, bear in mind

Actually it was a direct insult. But like everything else you are incapable of understanding that.You live in your own fruity little world and your way is the only way.

Kay

Comment by JDLKY

on 2012-08-12T17:18:34-05:00

In its press releases over the past 6 quarters Blizzard has stated that most* of the sub losses have been in the East, mainly China. I'll assume that they are telling the truth.

Folks China is 8-9 months behind us. They won't get MoP till late Q2 of 2013. Whatever their reason for quitting it has nothing to do with a lack of new content. So get off that hobby horse. Further given the economic conditions over there its highly doubtful many will ever come back after being gone for so long unless there is a boom over there in the next year or so.

*S.W.A.G. about 2/3 rd's of the losses but ymmv.

What I see is a smaller but steady deterioration in the non Chinese player base. Some of it is lack of content related to be sure. Some of it is just plain old burnout. Some of it is economics. But whatever happens no more than a million can come back. That would be almost all of the non Chinese drops and is probably unrealistic. So don't be overly disappointed when fewer folks come back than you may be thinking will show up.

Comment by Azrile

on 2012-08-12T18:23:45-05:00

In its press releases over the past 6 quarters Blizzard has stated that most* of the sub losses have been in the East, mainly China. I'll assume that they are telling the truth.

Folks China is 8-9 months behind us. They won't get MoP till late Q2 of 2013. Whatever their reason for quitting it has nothing to do with a lack of new content. So get off that hobby horse. Further given the economic conditions over there its highly doubtful many will ever come back after being gone for so long unless there is a boom over there in the next year or so.

*S.W.A.G. about 2/3 rd's of the losses but ymmv.

What I see is a smaller but steady deterioration in the non Chinese player base. Some of it is lack of content related to be sure. Some of it is just plain old burnout. Some of it is economics. But whatever happens no more than a million can come back. That would be almost all of the non Chinese drops and is probably unrealistic. So don't be overly disappointed when fewer folks come back than you may be thinking will show up.

They got DS only a few weeks after us I believe. So yes, they may get MoP after us, but in the same token they also have been doing DS just as long as us. Once they beat DS, they must have been saying that it would be a year without new content... Dec to Dec.

I do think there is a chance that MoP can outsell Cata for the 1 day record in the west, which will tell a lot.

It could just be that Blizzard doesn´t care as much about China anymore. They pay less in subscription fees, Blizzard has to split it with the distributer and they have to deal with the gov´t.

Comment by JDLKY

on 2012-08-13T05:08:21-05:00

They got DS only a few weeks after us I believe. So yes, they may get MoP after us, but in the same token they also have been doing DS just as long as us. Once they beat DS, they must have been saying that it would be a year without new content... Dec to Dec.

I do think there is a chance that MoP can outsell Cata for the 1 day record in the west, which will tell a lot.

It could just be that Blizzard doesn´t care as much about China anymore. They pay less in subscription fees, Blizzard has to split it with the distributer and they have to deal with the gov´t.

I stand corrected on the Chinese 4.3 release date. It never occurred to me that since they launched Cata 8 months after us and will get MoP 8 months after us, that the patches would not be on the US timetable.

Your points about not caring as much about China are well taken. The Chinese time card model has never looked to me to be nearly as profitable as the monthly fee one. If you equate a 40 hour card to a month's sub they pay 30% of what we do. I conjecture that a card player would have far fewer alts and would not be nearly as inclined to be a collector of recipes, pets, mounts, etc. The holiday stuff would not be as attractive. So they will burn through content incredibly fast.

But they still ain't coming back. Bad economics and 15 months of no new content* will preclude it imo. YMMV.

* yes, partially at least this a reversal of my previous comment. I was wrong.

Comment by EmeraldFox01

on 2012-08-13T05:52:26-05:00

I dont think blizzard are to worried at the moment. Especilly with sales of diablo. And Pandera will more than bring back the gamers to warcraft. but I wonder if this only covers the us server or does it cover the european servers as well with this subscription loss

Comment by colgate2000

on 2012-08-13T09:19:37-05:00

The Pandas and pet battles might appeal more to an Eastern audience. What will put people off of buying another expansion is the lack of variety in the realms. Some players will get bored quickly having played a lot of the content in the Beta and will new players want to join or rejoin a disjointed community--- the know it alls and the lazy wannabees with just a handful of happy players. There are too many non- subscription options for gamers. It is also possible that Warcraft has had it's time and bolting on new continents and raids, however good, will never bring back the players. It essentially an old game with a bit of dressing. ,

Comment by Adamsm

on 2012-08-13T11:09:27-05:00

It essentially an old game with a bit of dressing.

And yet....Everquest keeps coming out with expansions....

Comment by YJMark

on 2012-08-13T11:16:36-05:00

It essentially an old game with a bit of dressing.

And yet....Everquest keeps coming out with expansions....

I don't think he was stating that WoW was dead. Just that it was past its prime due to age. Everquest is also an old(er) game with a bit of dressing. New expansions in Everquest are not going to get 10 million people to start playing it.

Comment by Adamsm

on 2012-08-13T11:26:27-05:00

It essentially an old game with a bit of dressing.

And yet....Everquest keeps coming out with expansions....

I don't think he was stating that WoW was dead. Just that it was past its prime due to age. Everquest is also an old(er) game with a bit of dressing. New expansions in Everquest are not going to get 10 million people to start playing it.

No, but it doesn't mean that WoW is going to suddenly shut down either; there are still people who are going to play the game, same as those who still plunk away at Runescape, enjoy Everquest and do the insanity that is Eve.

Comment by YJMark

on 2012-08-13T11:39:11-05:00

No, but it doesn't mean that WoW is going to suddenly shut down either; there are still people who are going to play the game, same as those who still plunk away at Runescape, enjoy Everquest and do the insanity that is Eve.

I 100% agree.

It would be interesting to know how small the playerbase would have to be for Blizz to pull the plug on WoW. I'm sure there is some threshold where Blizz won't want to bother anymore. I have no idea what that number would be. And I bet it would also change depending on how the other Blizz games are doing.

Comment by Adamsm

on 2012-08-13T11:43:02-05:00

Aye yup.

Comment by Rankkor

on 2012-08-13T13:13:09-05:00

No, but it doesn't mean that WoW is going to suddenly shut down either; there are still people who are going to play the game, same as those who still plunk away at Runescape, enjoy Everquest and do the insanity that is Eve.

I 100% agree.

It would be interesting to know how small the playerbase would have to be for Blizz to pull the plug on WoW. I'm sure there is some threshold where Blizz won't want to bother anymore. I have no idea what that number would be. And I bet it would also change depending on how the other Blizz games are doing.

take a moment to let this sink in: Warhammer online has less than 50k players on it. It still hasn't been shut down.

As long as people play, profit is there to be had and the game lives on.

Comment by YJMark

on 2012-08-13T16:15:33-05:00

take a moment to let this sink in: Warhammer online has less than 50k players on it. It still hasn't been shut down.

As long as people play, profit is there to be had and the game lives on.

50k? wow. That is impressive.

How did you find out that info? I couldn't seem to find sub numbers anywhere...

Comment by Olren

on 2012-08-14T08:18:10-05:00

I quit two months ago after several other 2-3 month breaks. Was not pleased at all with the current state of the game. To be honest Mists doesn't look that appealing either. Seriously considering not ever playing again.