What began as whispers about Australians joining the fight in the Middle East has become loud and public warnings about fighters who are even more radical than those responsible for the Bali bombings, write Michael Brissenden and Suzanne Dredge.

For more than 18 months now Australian intelligence has been expressing concerns about young Australians joining the fight in the Middle East - first in Syria and now in Iraq.

It began with quiet leaks and whispers from "insiders" and "sources", then it became official with the head of ASIO, David Irvine, warning explicitly and publicly about "young Australians (who) go overseas and become quite severely radicalised in the extremist Al Qaeda-type doctrines".

Now the warnings are coming thick and fast from senior Government ministers.

This week the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor, Bret Walker SC, urged the Government to consider giving ASIO even greater powers to suspend a foreign passport and revoke Australian citizenship.

The INSLM is concerned that the concept of dual-citizenship raises issues of divided loyalties and does not see why, as a matter of policy, an Australian citizen should also be able to be a citizen of another country.

Mr Walker recommended that ASIO should be given the power to suspend passports for up to a week while it was considering an "adverse security assessment" and argues that "there should be procedures for cancelling an Australian passport to prevent travel where there is a sufficiently cogent ground to believe that the person intends to travel overseas to engage in terrorist or foreign incursions activities."

Walker also recommends that "consideration should be given to the introduction of a power for the Minister for Immigration to revoke the citizenship of Australians" if the minister is satisfied the person has engaged in "acts prejudicial to Australia's security and it is not in Australia's interests for the person to remain in Australia."

Some, but not all, of the changes to ASIO powers recommended by Mr Walker would require legislative changes to the ASIO act. Attorney-General George Brandis says: "The Government will give serious consideration to the recommendations in Mr Walker's fourth report and will formulate a meaningful and considered response."

Senator Brandis also says the current Government will be considering the previous reports by the INSLM that he says were ignored by the previous government.

"Unlike the former Labor government, who established the INSLM, the Government will not ignore the work of the monitor."

But it will proceed with plans to abolish the position as part of its "cutting red tap" initiative because it argues multiple, independent oversight mechanisms already exist that perform this role.

A point emphatically rejected by Mr Walker.

In his final report he says: "The INSLM is not aware of any other officer, agency or 'level' of government doing what Parliament required to be done by the INSLM Act enacted in 2010."

What is clear is that the conflicts in Syria and Iraq have already become a magnet for young extremists. And of course it's not just Australians looking to join the jihad. Late last year the British defence consultant IHS Janes estimated there were between 5000 and 10,000 foreign fighters in Syria, many of them from the US and Europe.

The US FBI director, James Comey, said he was worried about Syria becoming a training ground for foreign fighters just like Afghanistan in the 1980s. Clearly extremists are heading to the front lines of this bloody sectarian battle and the genuine fear is they will return home with advanced operational training and more prepared than ever to engage in terrorist activities at home.

The estimates are that as many as 200 Australians have joined the jihad but that number could be conservative.

Here's some of what we do know:

In September last year a Brisbane man known as Abu Asma Al Australi became the first Australian suicide bomber. He blew himself up at a checkpoint near a military airport in Syria. A video hit militia social media sites not long after showing him spruiking from the back of a truck in the last moments of his life, urging more foreigners to join the fight.

In December the AFP arrested a man accused of being the ringleader of a criminal syndicate helping to recruit people to join rebel groups in Syria. Hamdi Al Qudsi was charged for arranging travel for six Australian fighters.

On January 12 this year a Sydney couple, Yusuf Ali and Amira Karroum, were killed in Syria during the fighting. Yusuf Ali was one of those who Hamdi Al Qudsi helped get to the front line. Court documents alleged he had been recruited to fight for Al Qaeda and its affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra.

On January 18 another young Australian man, 22-year-old Caner Temel, was killed in Syria fighting alongside Jabhat al Nusra.

On January 23 it is alleged an Australian citizen working in Turkey acted as a middleman to help Australians enter Syria. Mohammed Ali Baryalei allegedly worked in conjunction with Hamdi Al Qudsi to send Australians to join the front line.

In February Ahmad Moussalli was reportedly killed in Syria. He was a part of the "street dawah" team and spent his time preaching Islam on the streets of Sydney. It's believed he travelled to Egypt then made his way to Syria.

In February this year it was reported that Khaled Sharrouf had used his brother's passport to travel to Syria. He was on an airport watch list but managed to leave the country.

On May 3 a young mother was arrested at Sydney airport with her four children allegedly on her way to meet her husband in Syria. She was the first woman to be charged under the foreign incursions act.

The ABC reported on May 19 that Mohamed Elomar was in Syria fighting with ISIS and it was his wife who was arrested at Sydney airport.

It's an alarming list.

But of at least equal concern for Australia is how many militants from Indonesia are now heading to the front line, attracted by hardline radicalism of ISIS - the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. A group that we now know even scares the hardliners in Al Qaeda.

As the ISIS forces began to sweep into the Iraqi cities of Mosul and Tikrit last week a video emerged showing a group if armed Indonesian men filmed somewhere in Syria, urging their fellow countrymen to come and join the fight with ISIS.

According to Sidney Jones, the director of the Jakarta-based Institute for Policy Analysis of Conflict, support for ISIS has been growing in Indonesia and those who are attracted to it are far more radical even than those responsible for the Bali bombings in 2002.

Michael Brissenden is the ABC's defence correspondent based in Canberra. View his full profile here. Suzanne Dredge is a researcher with the national reporting team at the ABC. View her full profile here.

Comments (52)

Comments for this story are closed.

Terry:

20 Jun 2014 3:34:47pm

What nonsense. That many persons holding Australian passports (I don't thing they consider themselves Australian - they generally use the term as an insult) have gone overseas to fight for religious reasons is to be expected. It is an expression of multiculturalism which we should celebrate.

The real danger, as recognised by those in the know, is whether we use the adjective "occupied' or "disputed' to refer to a piece of land which is both.

We can tell this as a meeting of Moslem nations will be discussing the latter this weekend, while the slaughter of one group of Muslims by another is too insignificant to be on the agenda.

din:

M:

al:

20 Jun 2014 5:28:17pm

Revoke their "passports of convenience". As has long been suspected, divided loyalties find its origin when disparate cultures co-exist. These people would be more than happy to see Australia as part of a greater Islamic caliphate....and how would dissent and difference be treated by them if that were the case.

Judy Bee:

20 Jun 2014 3:34:55pm

Do we need to throw more funds at homeland security? Can we detain those of violent intent when we become aware of those intentions? After all, we put people behind razor wire for claiming asylum from violence.

aGuy:

20 Jun 2014 3:54:35pm

Too many human rights for ASIO to be effective. We are a country that grants Captain Ehad and his family, both which said each other was dead, refugee visas and when uncovered by the ABC cant stop a people smuggler from leaving our country.

As far as I know, the family remains and are still classified as refugees despite lying on their application.

Australian borders are ridiculously open to someone who has been coached on what words to say.

Dove:

Malcolm:

20 Jun 2014 3:43:31pm

As it is clearly against our law for private citizens to engage in conflicts in other countries then we simply revoke their citizenship or if that is not possible then charge them with the appropriate crime when or if they return. If there is evidence that they have been involved in war crimes such as the alleged shooting of Iraqi POWs then charge them with murder. Either way we do not want these people allowed back into the community here. In any case as they are o keen to involve themselves with ISIS/ISIL then they'll enjoy spending the rest of their lives in that Caliphate.

Peter of Melbourne:

20 Jun 2014 3:44:37pm

i dont know what your probelm is mike?

in our multicultural society there is nothing wrong with being an islamic freedom fighter, defending and murdering their way across foreign nations, all in the name of their little fairytale, against those who believe in the same fairytale but different!

just let the freaks leave and cancel their passports so they can never enter this nation again. they make their choices in life let them live or die with them without the resources or any type of support from the australian people.

RGG:

Mitor the Bold:

20 Jun 2014 6:10:03pm

It's a risky piece of legislation to give one's govt the power to cancel one's citizenship. I agree we don't want these people back here, but I don't trust our govts to use such a power wisely or fairly or with restraint. There are a significant number of Australians whose citizenship was attained rather than ascribed.

John:

20 Jun 2014 5:50:30pm

If they are not Australian-born, that is, if they are citizens of another country and have attained Australian citizenship or permanent residency status, then of course we can cancel their Australian passports.

Dove:

20 Jun 2014 3:51:11pm

No doubt there are violent Australians fighting in Syria (and other places around the world) who might return even more violent and whose who then might think that waging a war here makes sense. And I'm sure that there are many more within Australia who think that they'd like to join them. But the threat is overblown to say the least. All we have is an estimated number. Make it round. Make it 200. And nine quoted cases, four of which are of no further danger (they're dead), two of which are criminals looking to make a swift buck from the affair, two "reported", one "reportedly", one "it's believed" and the arrest of a mother of four who was "allegedly". No wonder I sleep well at night. If this is the best that the AFP can conjure up then I'll gladly pay more taxes so that they can provide a proper service.

ConservativeJohn:

20 Jun 2014 4:31:37pm

Let me get this right.. you are saying that 200 highly trained, fanatical fighters who are (by being alive) are battle hardened combat veterans prepared to commit mass murder and other unspeakable atrocities are 'Not really a problem'.

Seriously!?

Combine this with bikie gangs, home made guns - which will soon be able to produce AK74's in numbers - and you have a serious problem on your hands.

It would only take a handful of these fanatics let lose in a major urban centre like a CBD or hospital or sports event for the body count to go through the roof, these are NOT your garden variety idiots who watch Taliban videos and post rubbish in the internet, these guys will be the REAL DEAL.

Dove:

20 Jun 2014 5:34:23pm

Yep. Well spotted. That's exactly what I'm saying. There aren't 200- it's a made up number. We don't let them back in, although it seems the AFP couldn't track a toddler smeared in jam. Lastly, what makes you think they'll come here after their war? They'll go to Syria and Jordan. No islamic state here, mate. Wake up.

Bob42:

20 Jun 2014 6:17:34pm

Dove, you overlook the importance of keeping the population in a constant state of fear. To maintain control over the masses, someone in the government has to cry "THE SKY IS FALLING" every now and then. The government then tightens its python grip on security which causes the problem to go away and a grateful public are once again reassured.

Dave:

20 Jun 2014 3:52:13pm

I didn't oppose the war against the Taliban in Afghanistan because those guys were just plain wrong about their treatment of their countrymen and moreso their countrywomen. But the invasion of Iraq was so stupid and counterproductive that words can barely describe. There was Al Qaeda, in caves and on the run, crapping themselves, and suddenly Dubya and the Haliburton shareholders open up a new war to divert military resources and, more significantly, allow for images of military brutality against Iraqis to be broadcast throughout the region. It was all the PR Al Qaeda could have hoped for and moreso. Thousands of suicide bombers have come out of the woodwork because of that folly.

We can't be surprised when this kind of marketing works on a few stupid, violent and low-self-esteem young Australians muslims. If only the US hadn't given the marketing campaign so many leg-ups over the last decade maybe we'd have less of a problem now.

anote:

20 Jun 2014 3:58:14pm

It will be interesting how the government deals with this.

It may be reasonable to revoke citizenship in some circumstances but it would not be reasonable if that involves just dumping our problems onto some other country. It is our responsibility to deal with our citizens properly, whether that is by help or penalty. Perhaps the individual may have citizenship of another country that may be reasonably considered to have a higher responsibility.

It has recently been reported that fighting in foreign countries is a crime that will be prosecuted on return to Australia; if not under the auspices of the government. It has also been recently been reported that Des Ball helped the Karen in Myanmar. He was there and fought for them. He has also been appointed an Officer in the General Division of the Order of Australia.

On the face of it Des Ball broke the law and a blind eye is being turned. Don't get me wrong. Ball did a good thing and deserves his accolades while those going to fight for terrorist organisations deserve being penalised. The point is how this simplistic government deal with it.

Wining Pom:

JacS1:

20 Jun 2014 4:17:05pm

In his strongest warning yet, Mr Abbott vowed that "murderous potential terrorists" trying to return to Australia would be locked up to protect the community."These people should have no place in our country, and we will do our best to keep them out," he told reporters in Sydney on Friday."If they can't be kept out, they will be taken into detention because we are not going to allow people who are an obvious threat to our safety and security to roam loose in Australia."

I read this in a report elsewhere, the reporter didn't make it very clear but the impression I got was that abbott made these comments today during an interview regarding the aussie troops being sent off to protect the embassy in Iraq.

Troppo:

20 Jun 2014 4:17:47pm

Their Passports and Visas should be cancelled even if they were born in Australia. If they wish to travel overseas to kill and murder then do not come back here. If they wish to protest do it in a peaceful way. I do not support any of these tyrants/dictators/murderers from either side. most/all of it is religious and if they participate in it they are no better than the other side and it says everything about their religion - NOTHING GOOD.

splod1:

20 Jun 2014 5:04:10pm

Troppo: "it says everything about their religion - NOTHING GOOD."Oh please! There are idiots in every religion. Even the Gestapo swore that God was on their side. You can't condemn a religion based on twits who do things in its name. Then again, you might want to condemn Christianity, based on the idiots who claimed to be carrying out God's will when they slaughtered Muslims in Bosnia or during the Crusades.

Terry:

20 Jun 2014 6:24:39pm

"Even the Gestapo swore that God was on their side"

Really? En masse? I find that a little hard to believe.

PS It was Christians who stopped the slaughter in Bosnia.

And can we put aside the Crusades? They were nearly a thousand years ago, and a response to the Muslim invasion of previously Christian lands. So they were more like a liberation force than anything else.

GrumpiSkeptic:

20 Jun 2014 4:23:08pm

There is nothing to worry about. These young listless amigos are joining the calls by the "democracy" loving population to topple the Assad regime. Or are they?

Right at the beginning, when Syria was facing some sporadic terrorist activities, I thought it is not going to be pretty. Sooner or later, the extreme elements all over the world will mingle with the so-called "freedom fighters". Being much more hard-core and ruthless, the extremists will turn not only Syria, but the Middle East into a place worse than it was when tyrants such as Saddam Hussein and Colonel Gaddafi were still in control.

The old saying "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" still valid. These tyrants knew who will threaten their reigns, and they will crush it before it even had a chance to fester. Then Syria is the latest round of stupid mistakes made by the prophets of democracy. It seems to rid of Assad will solve every problems we ever face... human rights, democracy, freedom, the works.

Now two and a half years later, Assad is still around, the country is reduced to ruins. Functioning family units are living in refugee camps in a foreign land. The simple question one ought to ask: "Is Syria a better place now"?

I notice the West is extremely quiet now about Syria. Reporters no longer appear daily with their ill-fitted body armours, pretending to dodge bullets. So the democracy wagon have moved on, after it has cause so much harms and destruction to Syria. Can the West now live in peace?

Well. rest not. It is only the beginning of a new chapter as the murderous ISIS is now becoming a more potent force than the West is used to deal with. What makes it worse is the recruitment of the misfits, the losers, the ones who are not quite the full deck, the drug addicts and drug dealers. These garbage of our society are now finding a foothold where they can vent their nasty designs on the innocents. For them, being belonged to a group, and better still, with Islam faith as an excuse, the killings and robberies are all legitimate, as they are for a "good cause".

Sadly, that is the reality we are facing. The end of conflicts, which is unlikely anyway, will not mean everything is back to normal. Indonesia will have some returned hardened fighters. Australia and the US will also have some.

wil mcqueen:

20 Jun 2014 4:23:27pm

Nip this nonsence in the bud...all those who agree that an Australian should only have an Australian passport, should only be in this country to support its citizens and should respect this countries laws and social mores..put your hands up now!

Ted:

20 Jun 2014 4:47:03pm

There was once a time when immigration applicants had to satisfy the authorities that they could assimilate into Australian society and over the years we have done very well with our immigration program. Then suddenly we allowed into the country a large group who never had any intention of assimilating or contributing to the country, and who are demonstrating where there real allegiance lies by heading off to do some murdering in the middle east.

We can arrest these people if they ever attempt to return, or we can cancel their passports if they weren't born here. To try to clean up the rest of the mess we should deport any person not born here who commits any crime. We might just fix up the housing crisis at the same time.

DannyS:

20 Jun 2014 6:50:58pm

Ted, I reckon we should cancel anyone's passport, born here or not, if they go on a murdering 'adventure holiday' in the Middle East. Or anywhere else for that matter. But with your last point, I don't know the stats, but I reckon there'd be a few Brits, Europeans and others here for example who weren't born here and have committed crimes. Sending them back to where they came from might cause a bit of a fuss.

Of the 150 currently-sitting members of the House of Representatives, nineteen were born in countries outside Australia: in Fiji, France, Greece, Hong Kong, Hungary, Italy, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Nigeria, South Africa and the UK. As for the Senate, eleven of its 46 members were born outside Australia: in Belgium, Germany, Ireland, Malaysia, New Zealand and the UK.

If there are so many 'foreigners' in the top jobs here, imagine how many are here at the lower levels who have been convicted of crimes! It doesn't bear thinking about!

blax5:

20 Jun 2014 4:52:27pm

My view would be that Australian citizenship is too easily obtained. It should take 10 years during which time they'd not be able to travel, unless they can get a UN travel document, which replaced the Nansen passport. Within those 10 years they might lose the urge to fight and re-entry into Australia would not be guaranteed. Anyone with reasons to be exempt should be able to apply for a passport earlier, explaining their reasons.

adamnuisance:

20 Jun 2014 5:38:01pm

I'm afraid that I've always had difficulty forming an opinion on this issue.

I think as fellow human beings we should help people when they are in need, but I worry about the personal biases of the politicians making the decisions. Fundamentally, the problem in the middle-east is religion, as always. I'm not sure blowing up more civilians will solve the problem, but here's hoping. 100th time's a charm, no? :(

Mike (the other one):

20 Jun 2014 5:39:48pm

"Between 5000 and 10,000 foreign fighters in Syria, many of them from the US and Europe". I can see the day fast approaching when western governments are going to have to do all they can taking measures to keep Islam well and truly at arms length as it is inconsistent with democracy, western values and lifestyle.

Original Aussie:

20 Jun 2014 5:49:32pm

19/6/14 - Disturbing news, Sunni extremists in Iraq have occupied what was once Saddam Hussein?s premier chemical-weapons production facility, a complex that still contains a stockpile of old weapons, State Department and other U.S. government officials said. CIA reports that Bunker 13 at Muthanna contains thousands of sarin-filled rockets (both filled and unfilled) plus leaking munitions regarded too hazardous for UN inspectors to enter. It seems the ISIL won't be as cautious and they may be the first casualties of this deadly gas; as well as any other fighters with them... deterrent? I think so...Remember the Sarin attacks in Japan?

Original Aussie:

20 Jun 2014 5:54:05pm

PS: Addition to my previous post, ?The munitions could contain as much as 15,000 liters of sarin.?Sarin is a human-made chemical warfare agent classified as a nerve agent. Sarin originally was developed in 1938 in Germany as a pesticide.Sarin is a clear, colorless, and tasteless liquid that has no odor in its pure form. However, sarin can evaporate into a vapor (gas) and spread into the environment.It acts in seconds...

ScottBE:

20 Jun 2014 6:19:18pm

Are they "Aussies"? I don't know. But if they carry Australian citizenship, they are subject to Australian law. As such, I consider that they should have charges laid against them if there is adequate evidence that the DPP would support such charges. They can then have Interpol notified and arrest actions be instigated.

To simply suspend or cancel passports for people who have left does nothing but send the message that they are no longer under the jurisdiction of Australian law and so allows them to continue with impunity.

ScottBE:

20 Jun 2014 6:24:54pm

Another argument that arises from this is that there have always been mercenaries. Some of these hold Australian passports. It has been stated by the Gillard Labor government that mercenaries are acting contrary to Australian law.

During the Spanish civil war, there were some fighting against Franco, some fighting for him. Others joined other official military, including the French Foreign Legion (does this force still exist?) while others joined partisan groups and still more in militia groups. There is a long history of people migrating to engage in wars throughout history.

Veganpuncher:

20 Jun 2014 7:41:12pm

Yeah, Scott. Not sure that joining the International Brigades to restore a democratic government overthrown by a military coup is exactly the same as going to a war zone explicitly to murder anyone who doesn't believe in the same sky-pixie as you.

Can we all take a moment to remember the ABC martyr David Hicks who went to Afghanistan to join a group just as righteous as the ISIS. Long may he profit from his ghost-written memoirs.

Old Coot:

20 Jun 2014 6:26:51pm

Revoke their passports and leave them to rot where they will.They do not want to b e part of our great country, but to continue the religious squabbles that beset the Arab world, and would bring those squabbles back here so leave them there.

Malcolm:

20 Jun 2014 6:53:01pm

If they are found to have been Australian passport holders fighting for the ISIS/ISIL then there is no diversionary scare by this government and they should quite clearly be either banned from returning, have their citizenship revoked or if they find some lawyer able to weasel their return to Australia then jail them for murder or accessories to murder. No religious nut job be they Christian, Muslim, Tamil, Hindu, Buddhist or whatever who is prepared to kill on behalf of their beliefs has any place in Australia. We have enough problems with ordinary criminals without allowing religious psychos loose.

Bantam:

20 Jun 2014 6:58:56pm

While I agree with much of the intelligent argument above, what I would like to know (for curiosity) is what the ratio is of these "enthusiasts" is who came to this country via our formal (legal) immigration system versus those who arrived illegally by whatever means (boat, plane, ship). It occurs to me that there are two scenarios. First, if the majority of these "freedom fighters" came legally, what is the problem with the system and who is going to fix it and how? (is someone actually responsible?). Alternatively, if they arrived illegally and were admitted under the stewardship of the previous government, why would you ever consider putting a party with that "flexible" policy back in power? Perhaps some will think my approach "simplistic" but I say to those we elect - This is Australia - Be Australian !!

Original Aussie:

20 Jun 2014 7:14:44pm

In Feb 2014, CIA Agency Director John Brennan said in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence said:Al Qaeda and ISIL- that I?m concerned about, especially the ability of these groups to attract individuals from other countries, both from the West, as well as throughout the Middle East and South Asia, and with some experienced operatives there who have had experience in carrying out a global jihad. ?There are camps inside of both Iraq and Syria that are used by Al Qaeda to develop capabilities that are applicable, both in the theater, as well as beyond.He goes on to explain that the FBI are looking into returnee's from that conflict. He thinks that Al Qaeda and ISIL are the two most dedicated to the terrorist agenda.

Australia should take more seriously these mercenaries leaving our shores; I'm not sure what they expect, however. in this same report foreign fighters are resented by other factions and just may be the victims of *friendly fire* either way it's a suicide mission and not the adventure they were looking for. (Jabhat al Nusra, an Al Qaeda-affiliated militia is in outright conflict with ISIL)Source: Congressional Research Service May 2014-7-5700

Lee:

20 Jun 2014 7:31:06pm

An important article, but I'm afraid I smell terroristophobia. Let us remember, none of us can ever be genuinely opposed to a murderous ideology. So those who have an ethical problem with terrorism simply have a phobia, or are in fact racist. This kind of reasoning that the elites have subjected us to since 9/11 - in order to ensure no one can ever study, discuss, or report the plain *facts* about a certain cult - should also be applied to other fields. For instance, those opposed to the recent Budget are simply suffering from Budgetophobia. Those opposed to the Medicare co-payment, co-payment-ophobia - etc etc. "Oh tsk, tsk, those simpletons with their fear of the unknown!"

Furthermore, let us not forget the elites' new truism that "one man's freedom-fighter is another's terrorist". That is, people who explicitly use the word "terror" to describe their tool to control others, actually *mean* to say "freedom". And throwing acid in school-girls' faces to dissuade them from school, and bombing weddings, parties, anything, also becomes the pursuit of "freedom". LOL. And the crazy "debates" go round and round...