Well-Known Member

Yeah, EU standards and PPE/PSA are the worst. They mean that I can't order either a HH2,RR,Akimbo,e.t.c in Germany, the only available thing is the RW. Even if I were to pay 40$ for having them shipped from the USA, and paid the about 25%-30% import tax they might still not make it through customs because they are classified as PSA, but don't comply to the PSA standards (Which are not even available to read for free!!! edit: Ok, PSA standards are free, but others aren't) In which case they would probably get destroyed.
<rant over>

Well-Known Member

How do the current wraptors (current gen and last gen) do with extra weight? At 325 without gear, I'm a *touch over capacity. I'm assuming as with most everything else, it's a certification and safety factor issue rather than the device is unsafe to use. Will the current ones lift more than 300lbs albeit at a slower speed, or does the rope slip in the sheav, or the motor run out of oomph...

If it's good to go I could see adding a 2 person rating, ala nfpa or some other entity for rescue, canopy tours, tree top access for the disabled, training etc. Things where you would ride as the operator and bring along a passenger under guidance

Well-Known Member

Ansi considers a person to weigh 310lbs and any life support device is required to have a 10 times safety factor. Many companies will list the MBS of their device which often times will be way over the 3100lbs (Wraptor is 9000lbs range) however many devices will cut the rope long before they fail which imo makes the Mbs irrelevant as you are still dead even if the device is still intact. The Wraptor will support 4100lbs on a rope. We started to make a unit that was capable of up and down and could support 6200 on a rope but decided it was a waste of time since NFPA won't allow any motorized devices to be used for personal ascent .
The NFPA I'm sure was started with good intentions but as with many organizations have just become a cash cow and has driven the cost of all firefighters gear through the roof and has strangled innovation

Active Member

Burrapeg,
I've been photo and video shy because I've seen a number of arborist innovations get scooped through the years. With what I've said so far someone could engineer up a copy as elegant and cool as to their own capabilities - make em work for it. But, dibs, they'll have to call it Arbscender.

Next time you have your rollgliss section apart wash a bushing. If its medium brown chances are it's delrin AF which is good stuff. $$ stuff too. I went to replace some old stock and got sticker shock so bad I just told myself to avoid using it. Do you have the old molyD and/or is the new formula worth buying?

I think the life support strength is a fundamental decision. I'm not sure I'd want 6200 lb capability in a device that could mess me up - unless it's a passive braking system like the rope grab on the wraptor. Then it's really two devices conjoined. A feature to consider is settable thrust e.g. a 230 lb geared up guy with a small bump for acceleration and friction would result in the largest injury-applying force being the amount of the small bump, perhaps 20 or 30 lbs or maybe less. Some tests could be done to find the point. If you got wedged going up a tree with the same force as the weight of a medium or big saw hanging off you saddle I'm sure it would be a limited degree of discomfort or injury, a size easy to comprehend. If a 350 lb thrust device got away from me and wedged me with 120 lbs force things would not be good. Food for thought. The drill bump slip clutch is a quick prefabbed, reliable, passive, settable thrust limiter.

On my device there's no brake or grab. That's left to the friction hitch. By the way, I once fired it up DRT and then I just went "why?". All the rope skidding and slowness, no thanks. DRT is for canopy action and lanyards.

Well-Known Member

I agree with you about DRT (MRS now). My ascents are all SRT from now on. It just works too well with my pair of MiniSAKA's. Even most of my moving around and limb walking is all SRT now. My MolyD is indeed the old original stuff. I bought a full quart of it decades ago for the shop; and still using what is left. As to anyone scooping anything I have done, I say let 'em. I would never contemplate making and selling these things. Just too much liability if someone got hurt. People are too willing to lawyer up now and blame someone else for any excuse. I am happy to share any ideas or mods I have, for free for anyone doing DIY, but that is as far as it goes.

Well-Known Member

How do the current wraptors (current gen and last gen) do with extra weight? At 325 without gear, I'm a *touch over capacity. I'm assuming as with most everything else, it's a certification and safety factor issue rather than the device is unsafe to use. Will the current ones lift more than 300lbs albeit at a slower speed, or does the rope slip in the sheav, or the motor run out of oomph...

If it's good to go I could see adding a 2 person rating, ala nfpa or some other entity for rescue, canopy tours, tree top access for the disabled, training etc. Things where you would ride as the operator and bring along a passenger under guidance

I've had my Wraptor for years. My unit will just umph out if I hang too much gear on my harness and try to take it all up at one time. It's like sticking the chain on a saw and continuing to try and rev it.

Well-Known Member

In regards to your original question Paul I can't really think of many improvements. It's a good solid unit as is. I did like the idea of Xman's mod of slight ears on top of the handlebar to bump against an overhead limb before the engine does.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

No adding a seat isn't expensive , what people often neglect is the Wraptor is less than half the cost of any other ascender that is safe to use. I really tried to keep the cost down as I know many tree guys can't afford them but really need them

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Hi Paul,
You mentioned a custom planetary gear stage. Are we talking plates, axle stubs and everything? I found a module and just had to make a housing/coupling into the ascender structure. Maybe it was $200 Can. by the time it got to me. I forget, its been a while. I'm guessing the other gas drills on the market just aren't quite right for adaption.

For a jog down memory lane remember the wraptor premier including the wraptor girls video? That was a while ago. Not sure if the videos's still around. The only time I've seen a wraptor in person was one someone in Toronto ordered through Universal Field Supplies and hadn't picked it up yet, I was just passing through the store and it came up in conversation, so the owner said here take a look. I think it was just shy of $3k Can. at the time to the end user. Congratulations on a successful product.

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