The Treatment Room.

All the things described are passive indulgences, much like watching a television. One may learn certain things by doing so, but it is rarely a hands-on learning.

Whether something is a 'passive indulgence' or not has entirely to do with the fruit it bears, and very little to do with the environment in which it occurs. In other words, it really depends on the person we're talking about. It is entirely possible for a certain kind of person to become a 'fully realized' human being in an urban environment. It is also quite possible that this will happen, for some, in a rural environment where one is further away from the psychosocial clutter of civilization. It's worth noting that some people achieve this even when they are confined in a prison, mental asylum or monastery.

No matter where you are, reality is all around you. Nature doesn't begin where civilization ends. It permeates everything.

Please excuse this post if it sounds patronizing or something. I get where you're coming from, Crow. I generally lean towards rural life, actually. It's just that I don't believe in the absolute dichotomy between 'active, healthy, engaged rural living' and 'decadent, passive, self-referential urban living'. Things are rarely so neatly binary, in my experience.

One never actually learns anything passively. Books, exhibits, teachers, provide a framework for the doing of, the application of, the learning. Until you've done it, there is no way to know about all the random variables involved, and no way to effectively teach this. Living is knowing. But this knowing has very little to do with book-knowing. Maybe you can quote taoteching to people, word for word, as many do, but until those words have actually changed your life, what do you know about it? Does knowing the words mean you are wise? No.

Furthermore, when you spend large amounts of energy keeping-the-city-out, you are less receptive to the fullness of life, than if you were not. Enlightenment means the total receptivity to all there is, and if you do that in a city, you end up insane. Even if you entered the city in a state of enlightenment, it would soon be lost, due to the nature of life in the city. Full awareness is dependent upon peace and quiet. Which is what a soul discovers when its body dies.

Maybe you can quote taoteching to people, word for word, as many do, but until those words have actually changed your life, what do you know about it? Does knowing the words mean you are wise? No.

Furthermore, when you spend large amounts of energy keeping-the-city-out, you are less receptive to the fullness of life, than if you were not. Enlightenment means the total receptivity to all there is, and if you do that in a city, you end up insane. Even if you entered the city in a state of enlightenment, it would soon be lost, due to the nature of life in the city. Full awareness is dependent upon peace and quiet. Which is what a soul discovers when its body dies.

As far as Eastern philosophy goes, I think the text that made the greatest impression on me regarding my subsequent choices in life was not the Tao Te Ching but the Bhagavad-Gita, I would suspect this is true for quite a few people here. The latter stresses the importance of carrying out your duty even when everything around you is corrupt and broken, which, generally speaking is what most people here at least attempt to do. I would once again stress the point that both the active and contemplative paths are spiritually valid choices and correspond to real human archetypes.

Edit: This post also seems applicable in the 'Move Out and Live' thread.

People like yourself seem (and I mean seem) able to walk the walk, whereas others only seem to, and this is visible in the recent happenings here: scratch the apparently calm surface and a ravening monster lunges out.

The appearance of 'having it together' is not the same as having it together.

Anyway: these are my findings. I have never met anyone, including myself, who can maintain reliable balance in a city environment. All is pretence, and the face one manages to wear for others, is not the actual face one wears. That is why I will never live in a city again, if I have any choice in the matter.

People like yourself seem (and I mean seem) able to walk the walk, whereas others only seem to, and this is visible in the recent happenings here: scratch the apparently calm surface and a ravening monster lunges out.

The appearance of 'having it together' is not the same as having it together.

Anyway: these are my findings. I have never met anyone, including myself, who can maintain reliable balance in a city environment. All is pretence, and the face one manages to wear for others, is not the actual face one wears. That is why I will never live in a city again, if I have any choice in the matter.

I would agree that if one doesn't take considerable time to tend to one's spiritual needs then living in a city is very destructive. It is necessary to withdraw, at least inwardly, quite frequently from the distractions of the urban environment, although this does not necessarily mean that you must physically leave the city but this does help.

Regarding your initial point, of course we can never really know who anyone is on the internet, we can only try and gauge something of the person through their words, or else simply take the words for what they are and ignore the personality of whoever writes them is probably better. For example I have been undecided for pretty much your entire time here as to whether or not you are who you say you are, but this is really of no significance since your words either have value or they do not regardless of whether you are really living the life you describe or you are typing from a computer booth in an insane asylum.

Edit: perhaps I should add here that the philosophy I describe and the judgments I make on this forum are ideals, I would be the first to admit that in my day to day life I do not always live up to them.

It is good that you announce your inability to decide if I actually am what I seem to be. I've long been puzzled by this phenomenon. You are not alone in this. It is good, because you are the first to so clearly verbalize it. Usually the not-knowing just enrages people.

As was mentioned before,it doesn't so much matter who you are but if your words hold meaning. Off course that means the one reading your words has to be able to take something from what was said. To me the most important thing is purpose. Albeit my purpose is different from everyone else's I welcome anything that will help me fulfill my purpose.

Anyway: these are my findings. I have never met anyone, including myself, who can maintain reliable balance in a city environment. All is pretence, and the face one manages to wear for others, is not the actual face one wears. That is why I will never live in a city again, if I have any choice in the matter.

Hey brother, it really depends with whom one spends their time. You can see truth in an overflowing newspaper bin. The pidgeons have mastered wu-wei. One can see a thousand small Arjuna rise between the concrete and bricks, or a thousand more crammed onto commuter trains, or sweeping the sidewalks.

Plastic is natural, so is diet soda, so is everything else.

It is my opinion that emotions are related to necessary actions, so thus over time emotions related to the scent of earth, or fractal branches, etc. are emotionally linked with our survival. Therefore, those who have affinity for active meditation will gain superb benefits from connection with natural things. However, those who find cerebral activity more effective will see both sides of the coin, but lack the visceral experience of the former.

And let's not talk about those weird duty bound moral path folks, zomg. I wonder if anybody here could provide insight into our two from theirs?

In fact, I have a huge blind spot in regards to "spiritual perfection via moral duty", so if anyone has insight I would love to hear it.

Anyway: these are my findings. I have never met anyone, including myself, who can maintain reliable balance in a city environment. All is pretence, and the face one manages to wear for others, is not the actual face one wears. That is why I will never live in a city again, if I have any choice in the matter.

Hey brother, it really depends with whom one spends their time. You can see truth in an overflowing newspaper bin. The pidgeons have mastered wu-wei. One can see a thousand small Arjuna rise between the concrete and bricks, or a thousand more crammed onto commuter trains, or sweeping the sidewalks.

Those cites with subways are like dirty compost heaps. Compost heaps where only certain plants can grow, like tomatoes or squash, which do well in soil of high nutrition. Orchid or some other rare plants grow only in special, ligther soils, as their roots are burned by the high nutrition content.

Most content in such a compost is only meant to be nutrition for future plants.

Soon the compost are owergrown, and the nettles come, and other of that type of nitrogen loving plants.

First after many recyclings of the organic materials we will see the diversity of a natural meadow with beautiful flowers and other herbs among the mundane grasses.

Could anyone imagine such a city giving life to a Siddharta Gautama or "Odinic wanderer" Gandalf type of person? Perhaps rather a Socrates talkative person.

At best we will probably see some superficial intellectual types that can nitpick superficial arguments.

Many people chose to withdraw from interacting too much if they are forced to have interaction in the urban environment, some even chose to dull the nerves with alchohol or a narcotic types of cannabis.

Schopenhauer spake of having sensitive nervous system and how having such was a burden, but also a requrement for the true thinker.