Firetruck41 wrote:I mostly agree with the previous post, except I don't know anyone who has ever rented a car for a "driving" getaway. 60kwh should have a large portion of urban/suburban America covered.

You need to visit your local Enterprise Rent a Car on a weekend and chat up the other renters (as I have). Weekend rates are so low for unlimited miles (both via Enterprise and whomever Priceline.com finds), it is often hard to justify putting "that many miles" on the car you own, particularly if you own one that isuncomfortable and a gas hog, If you can get "the car" for 90 bucks and drive it 360 miles, you've paid just 25c/mi for "the car" cost of the trip and gets you a far nicer/newer car than most people own, and often more fuel efficient. So it is "a thing".

And back to the point, 60kWh is what doubles, triples, or quadruples the number of EVs on the road, and creates the patronage/demand for more charging stations "organically". So I agree with Nissan that their role in this should be (1) a 60kWh battery (and anything else to increase practicality/value-proposition which radically increase sales to "home charging" households) and (2) no charge to charge (patronage for charging stations)

Last edited by Arlington on Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:40 pm, edited 4 times in total.

DeeAgeaux wrote:So you feel confident an Infiniti in the mid 40's without a dedicated nationwide fast charging network will do well in the market when there is a Tesla Model 3 with a base price in the $35k-$38k price range and a Tesla Model S with a base price of $70k both with a dedicated nationwide fast charging network?

My statement is based on the fact that the infiniti and the Tesla 3 are likely to be priced the same which means the LEAF will undoubtedly have other competition on the same price level but Tesla will not be one of them.

I'm more considering availability,LEAF as the cheaper optionInfiniti as the $35-$45 option that can be delivered in time to get the tax rebateTesla 3 as the $35-$45 trim which generally won't be delivered in time to get the tax rebateTesla 3 as the $45-$70 trim that might be delivered in time to get the tax rebate

and as $7500 is 20% of 37k, thats significant enough to make a level of different buyers, (of course there will be overlap)

the only way for the $35k-$45k trim to be delivered early is for the $45k-$70k trim level Tesla 3 to be a woeful car whose value proposition is akin to Cadillac ELR.

I think there is room for the possibility of some cheap Model 3 at full tax credit and lots of cheap Model 3 at half tax credit in 2018 or 2019 depending on when the 200,000 US cars mark it triggered.

i appreciate your work there, my perspective is that the M3 will be successful, desirable and as such will have only a slow ramp down to the base model deliveries, If I thought the M3 was going to sink, then cheap M3 deliveries will be available quickly.

I do however expect Elon to greatly desire a large number of deposits, so something may be worked out for early depositors.(a large deposit book assists in getting cheap funding)

DaveinOlyWA wrote:no. a minimal effort in research should turn up how some Tesla owners are using the SCs for daily use. This is a problem that will not go away with a slap on the wrist and a suggestive letter

Agreed. It is adequately documented. But I suspect that Tesla will simply stop offering free supercharging to new sales after a certain date or models below a certain MSRP (they could bear the losses when all they sold/sell is $75k to $100k Model S and X cars, but not with a flood of 3s at $35k)

I reckon Tesla will maintain their free for life supercharging, just making it unhappy for those who recharge within 70miles of home etc.

I recall they've already clarified their position that they've offered "Free long-distance for life", not exactly the same as "Free unlimited super-charging". It's not unimaginable that they could put some limitations on super-charge access in the owner's local area such as a charge after a certain number of local-charging stops per month, etc… While there would be a backlash if done now, the sentiment of Tesla owners could quickly change if/when supercharger congestion reaches a pain point with hundreds of thousands of users and "campers" seen as ever-present pariahs instead of the occasional kook who paid a lot of money, after all.

Nubo wrote:I recall they've already clarified their position that they've offered "Free long-distance for life", not exactly the same as "Free unlimited super-charging". It's not unimaginable that they could put some limitations on super-charge access in the owner's local area such as a charge after a certain number of local-charging stops per month, etc… While there would be a backlash if done now, the sentiment of Tesla owners could quickly change if/when supercharger congestion reaches a pain point with hundreds of thousands of users and "campers" seen as ever-present pariahs instead of the occasional kook who paid a lot of money, after all.

Tesla has the advantage of using both a public standard (Chademo) and a propriety standard (Supercharger). So they can focus on intercity recharging, leaving the bothersome intracity to Chademo and AC charging.

Speaking of which, I expect a lot more 'destination' charging to ramp up faster than many expect. AC is cheap and suitable for non-metered applications.