Americans Should Act to End Violence Against Gaza

by Jeremy R. Hammond / December 30th, 2008

Israel’s bombardment of the Gaza Strip was predictable, if not preventable. Israel’s crimes against the Palestinians simply could not take place on such a massive scale were it not for US support. The American people, therefore, have a responsibility to act and pressure their government to end its financial, military, and diplomatic support for Israeli violations of international law — a necessary first step towards any viable and sustainable peace.

Israel’s bombardment of Gaza has long been in the planning, and the purpose is to terrorize the Arab population in the hopes that they will revolt against the Hamas leadership and to punish them further for electing them. The siege Gaza has remained under since Israel withdrew its military from the Strip in 2006 has had the same intended purpose.

A comparable policy was implemented by the US against Iraq. The sanctions were intended to further the goal of regime change. The means by which this goal was pursued was to punish the Iraqi people, to deny them food and medical supplies. By United Nations estimates, more than a million Iraqis died as a result. More than half a million of those victims were children.

In the end, although then US ambassador to the UN Madeleine Albright publicly said that the “price” of half a million dead children was “worth it”, the sanctions served only to strengthen the control of Saddam Hussein’s regime over the people by making them totally dependent upon the regime for their very survival.

When it became clear that the genocidal sanctions were not sustainable due to overwhelming global opposition, the military option came to be seen as the only option for implementing regime change.

The choke hold Israel has maintained upon the population of Gaza has not had its desired effect. And Israel has realized that its siege of Gaza might also not be sustainable, given the ever-increasing global outrage. Israel’s use of force against Gaza was only a matter of time, and the cease-fire was understood from the beginning not to be an effort at a sustained, long-term peace, but to provide political cover for the planned military operation.

Prior to the Egyptian-brokered cease-fire, Israel had announced its intention to wage full-scale military operations against Gaza. The cease-fire did not end those plans, but were a means to that end. It was clear from the beginning that Israel intended to do everything in its power to ensure that the cease-fire was unsustainable in order to provoke Hamas into acting in a way that would provide Israel with a perceived casus belli to punish Gaza violently for continuing to have the leadership of elected Hamas officials.

Israel violated the cease-fire from the start. According to the UN, Israeli soldiers on numerous occasions fired upon Gaza farmers trying to work their land near the border. An 82-year-old man was injured in one such incident on June 27. In another shooting incident, a Palestinian woman was wounded.

The Israeli Defense Force openly announced that it would fire upon any Palestinian entering into what it declared was a “special security zone” within Gaza; essentially a declaration of the intention to continually violate the cease-fire with impunity by firing at farmers and other Palestinians attempting to reach their own land.

Israel also threatened a full-scale invasion if the cease-fire was violated by the Palestinians.

At the same time, Israel stepped up its operations against in the West Bank. On June 24, for example, Israel killed a member of Islamic Jihad, an act for which the group retaliated by launching several rocket attacks against Israel from Gaza.

Hamas in fact responded by appealing to Islamic Jihad and other groups to desist and to observe the cease-fire. “We expect everyone to respect the agreement so that the Palestinian people achieve what they look for, an end to this suffering and breaking the siege,” Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh told reporters.

Although the Israeli leadership knew these attacks were carried out by other groups, who were not a party to the cease-fire, it declared that it would hold Hamas responsible for all such attacks.

At the same time, Israel closed off the border, allowing only minimal humanitarian supplies through. Hamas has declared since the beginning that this was itself a violation of the cease-fire.

As I wrote in June, Israel’s actions seemed “designed to bring about a hostile response which would give Israel a casus belli to invade Gaza.

“In the event of any such invasion, Israel will claim that it had exhausted diplomacy. Israel has made sure that the cease-fire is unsustainable. But it is beneficial as it would be used as political cover for future military action.

“Coupled with Israel’s agreement to a prisoner exchange with Hezbollah, The New York Times calls this ‘Israel’s Diplomatic Offensive’. The exchange is Israel’s effort to wrap-up its 2006 war with Hezbollah before engaging in another war. The ‘Diplomatic Offensive’ will more likely than not be followed in coming months by a military offensive.”

The only thing that surprised me about Israel’s bombardment of Gaza was how long it took, on account of Hamas abiding by the cease-fire and not giving Israel the excuse it was looking for to terrorize Gaza residents in an extreme form of collective punishment.

None of this violence could occur without the massive support Israel receives from the US. And the US propaganda machine has been in high gear since the bombs started falling attempting to portray Israel as the victim. Although sporadic rocket attacks had occurred during the cease-fire, no Israelis were killed. Two Israelis have been killed since the end of the cease-fire in rocket attacks launched in retaliation for the Israeli bombardment.

The Palestinian death toll, on the other hand, is rapidly climbing towards 400.

Yet The New York Times and other major corporate news outlets have virtually wiped the Israeli violation of the cease-fire last month from history. On November 4, an Israeli airstrike in the Gaza Strip killed five Palestinians and wounded several others. The thinly veiled pretext for the attack was that Hamas was digging a tunnel which would be used to cross the border and capture Israeli soldiers.

But whether this tunnel actually existed or not hasn’t been made clear. And even if it was, such tunnels are used by the people of Gaza to smuggle in much needed supplies, like food, fuel, medicine, and other essentials Israel has denied them. In the end, this pretext bears a striking resemblance to the Bush doctrine of loosely-defined prevention (not preemption), a doctrine that has no legitimacy under international law.

But this Israeli violation of the cease-fire is being wiped from memory. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice declared that Hamas was solely responsible for violating the cease-fire and bringing about its end. The New York Times in current reports either finds that violation unfit for print or references it in couched language, such as by saying simply that the truce “began to unravel in early November”, as though this unraveling were some strange phenomenon with no known causal factors.

One must wonder whether the language in such reports would be so vague had Hamas been the party to initiate hostilities in violation of the truce agreement.

US-made bombs are being used by Israel to kill Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. The American people have a responsibility, therefore, in stepping up and taking action to help ensure an end to the current violence. US financial, military, and diplomatic support for Israel’s violations of international law and terrorizing of the Palestinian people will continue unless there is massive public pressure brought to bear upon both the outgoing Bush administration and the incoming Obama administration.

Bringing an end to US support for criminal violence in the region would be an important first step towards a viable and sustainable peace.

To send a message to your representatives in Congress and the Bush White House to take action to end the violence against the people of Gaza, you may use this convenient form at Just Foreign Policy. From there, you may also click a link to send your message to President-elect Obama.

76 comments on this article so far ...

I’ve already contacted an Ohio senator and the congressman from my district, even though I feel it’s futile to do so. It’s hard to imagine a lot of people in my area doing the same but one can hope, I suppose. We have to start somewhere.

But don’t you understand? America is in bed with Israel. They are conjoined! They have the same heart, black though it is.

America wants Israel to survive and grow because of its strategic position in an oil-rich region. And Israel helps to keep regional wars going and that helps the American economy which is heavily involved with making armaments. The more missiles that Israel uses the more work for American factories and the bigger the profits.

davidG,
one of the reasons that euro/US supports isr may be that it dosen’t want any arab land to obtain wmd.
to that end, it may be demanded of isr to attack/destroy any site that might be manufacturing wmd.
we may assume that even russia, china, india, among others, want isr to do the dirty work for them.
this possibility/probability had been in toto, as far as i know (afaik) neglected or as of yet not espied.
more input, please! thnx

Does anybody ever get the feeling are lives are being controlled by fools? Ignorance is strength I think not. Instinct instead of reason on many levels.

An inborn pattern of behavior that is characteristic of a species and is often a response to specific environmental stimuli: the spawning instinct in salmon; altruistic instincts in social animals.

A powerful motivation or impulse.

Reason should tell the leaders in India and Pakistan nuclear winters are not much fun. Reason should tell Israel violence will only bring more violence. Reason should tell World leaders that to move ahead with the same thinking that has got us human’s to this point will not work. So why not a new way of thinking? Take your time do a little thinking a hard question I know. So why not a new way of thinking? Many people just regular old people I talk to seem to know we need to do things in a different way.

This comment was put on DV a few day’s back I forget her name but was one of the best.

one gigantic boat, we are all in it together. some rich, some poor, some supposed to be our smart ones, but it seems the dumb have figured out whats going on, but feel powerless to do anything about it! theres a behind the scene agenda, been there since time imortal. ok, you smart ones, what do we do about it? it’s only about good verses evil, who can change a mans heart!!!!!!!!! that’s really the bottom line, its the human heart condition!!!

don,
i do feel trapped, helpless, impotent; that other people control me.
i’m not alone; bns r controled; by words and power.
causes for how we behave interpersonally, intranationally, and internationally r well known by observes.
others can be postulated.
it’s not not natural greed, imv (in my view), that causes people to lie/deceive but excessive greed. we need some greed, if that what it is, for survival.
fears r also causes for cheating/deceiving/warfare.
fear of being/feeling impotent/inferior is another cause for lying/deceiving.
delibarate miseducation is another cause for our warfare and mistreatmnet of others.
religious misteachings is yet another cause for much ill that befalls us.
one can even postulate that the nature which made us, is also a cause for our misbehavior.
caveat: a postualate is not fact to me.
is overpopulation another cause for warfare and hatred?
and as long as the ‘education’ remains in the hands of clero-corporate people, i suggest, we’l remain serfs.
no amount of evolution, resolution, or revolution will change that.
education/enlightenment can, imv, ?only liberate us. thnx

At least once or twice a day I think about that question. Always’ the same thing happens I run into that wall that wall of ignorance is strength. When looking at the big picture of today’s World and it’s not pretty then to turn on the TV and see how we are made to believe that this is this and that is that I have to admit is fascinating. The thinking has not yet caught up with reality the real World but it will. Many think that the powers that be will control our minds and the game will go on. I don’t think so the powers that be really are not that smart but like us to think they are and that seems to be falling apart as I write this. I still like the thought of a few million in front of the head office with signs that say one and one is two and again I will say if that could happen the meetings inside the halls of power trying to figure out what those signs one and one is two means. Is it a new cult or something, what do they want, I know Mr. President go out and tell them one and one is two it might work.

Well said Don Hawkins. There’s not just the fools in power but the average U.S. fool, Joe and Jane Public, who are kept in a state of ignorance and bliss by mass media. Try enlightening 9 out of 10 of them about what is going on and they 1) look at you like you’re nuts; 2) dismiss you as some lunatic conspiracy theorist; and/or 3) simply don’t give a damn. If info doesn’t come from CNN, Fox, or Oprah most of the public won’t take notice or believe a word.

It’s maddening to discover the ignorance and downright stupidity of people, especially educated ones who you’d think would have the aptitude and desire to see through the B.S. of the powers that be and the inane prattle that passes for news from the media. But no, the educated are as dumb assed as those who barely made it out of high school.

As for the fools in power, they’ve got it made with the media in their back pocket and a public too stupid and ignorant to question the insanity, atrocities, and scams that occur daily. These fools know right from wrong; their reasoning skills are just fine. However, they learned long ago that greed, corruption, and mayhem were more lucrative than reason doing what’s fair and right.

Wonderfully factual explanation, Mr. Hammond, thanks, and, Beverly, isn’t that the truth. The only people that want to know the truth about the current of human events of today, are those who search for truth, in the internet. So, you fabulous people, keep on getting the word out.
Peace and harmony, is what we deserve. Happy New Year!

It’s a relief to come to this site and see other people who actually use their NOGGIN. I’m surrounded by people who are completely and utterly clueless…seems like EVERYONE is hypnotized, yes, even the “educated” ones. It’s quite frustrating. I feel impotent as well, I’d like to become ACTIVE in some way, join a group, go picket somewhere, ANYTHING to at least stir the wind of change. Since we know OBama is just another Uncle Tom and is certainly not doing a thing but talking pretty. What a disappointment, but I should have seen it coming- his ascension was planned, encouraged, and well-oiled by the globalists all along.

Good luck to us all in the new year. I have a feeling we’re going to need it badly.

yes Keila it is a relief and an inspiration to find folks with a thinking brian and driven by a conscience. Hopefully we can bring the truth out and force some others to think! May the new year be better. And keep our fingers crossed on the Obama, and be liberal with our push on him!

It is very interesting to read more comments about what can only be summarized as Apartheid II: Israel’s ILLEGAL OCCUPATION of Palestine and the results thereof. The first thing the Jewish Pro-Israel community said during the election was that they feared that an African-American US President would not fully support Israel. Obama, being the puppet that he truly is, stated that under his regime the United States would continue to support Israel… this resulted in an overwhelming support of Jewish voters! Still, some think, because of the long history of animosity and/or distrust amongst Jews and blacks

Note: A history which dates back to the Jewish-owned slave plantations in Southern US and mostly in the northern countries of South America The Jews had more land and owned more African slaves than the Portugese!)

that Obama would waffle on his promise and begin pulling funds (10’s of BILLIONS of dollars) from Israel support. Therefore, it was decided for Israel to continue bombing Palestine…kill anything Palestinian… and blame the entire affair on Hamas. The pro-Israel Jewish Leaders wanted to destroy as much of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip as they could while Bush was still in office should Obama renege on his promise.

What is a shame is that the majority of Americans have been brainwashed so thoroughly that they actually believe what they read in Jewish Pro-Israel publications! Look at the steps leading up to 9/11 and, quite like the Kennedy Assassination, the real truth is kept from our eyes! Then when a discerning American begins to ask questions surrounding these events, you are tagged unpatriotic!
Try this on for size! Gather your facts together and begin a debate with one of these sheep… once you trump their high card by bringing factual evidence which debunks the myths, they shrink. They attempt to change the subject. Or, as was the case in my last debate, one guys neck veins began pulsating so bad that we had to sit him down and rub a cold washcloth upon his neck!
I do not in any way claim to know everything. However, if it smells like a skunk… looks like a skunk… walks like a skunk…then…it probably is a skunk! I question everything and begin with who or what organization stands to gain the most by a particular outcome of a particular event. Then as the web is spun, I research everything to its’ origin.

In closing, I would just like to add that it is awful that Israel has the entire world in a strangle hold. Furthermore, that even some of the products we purchase in our daily lives helps support their cause! Not to mention our taxes!!! Peace will never reign! Neither in the Middle East nor any other place because the Western powers…
DO NOT PROFIT FROM PEACE! PEACE NEVER CREATED INCOME! MORE WEAPONS AND DRUGS ARE TRADED ON THE WORLD MARKET THAN SPIRITUAL NICETIES!! IN CERTAIN AFRICAN NATIONS, BOOKS ABOUT COVERT OPERATIONS, WEAPON MANUFACTURING, AND MIND CONTROL (TORTURE) OUTSELL AND ARE READ MORE FREQUENTLY THAN THE BIBLE OR THE KORAN!!!

The author wrote: “Israel violated the cease-fire from the start. According to the UN, Israeli soldiers on numerous occasions fired upon Gaza farmers trying to work their land near the border…..

“The Israeli Defense Force openly announced that it would fire upon any Palestinian entering into what it declared was a “special security zone” within Gaza; essentially a declaration of the intention to continually violate the cease-fire with impunity by firing at farmers and other Palestinians attempting to reach their own land.”

The IDF (Israel Defense Forces) set up this ‘security zone’ in northern Gaza in an effort to curb Palestinian attempts to dig tunnels from Gaza into Israel. The army decided to set up security zone ‘clean’ of structures that can be used to cover digging tunnels into Israel.

Also Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit was kidnapped in a cross border raid from the Gaza Strip by Hamas terrorists on June 25, 2006. Shalit was kidnapped for no reason. He has been illegally held hostage by Hamas jihadists ever since. I believe the area stretches a kilometer into Palestinian territory, which should be clean or free of any building under which tunnels can be dug.

Let us not forget, Israel completely “disengaged” from Gaza, August 2005. Ariel Sharon forcibly uprooted around 8,000 law abiding and peaceful Jews from their homes and farms. He did this in midst of warnings Gaza would decend into a violent jihadist / terror state; the very thing that happened. All Jews and military were withdrawn from Gaza so the Palestinians could go about forming a peaceful and a productive state in Gaza. Philanthropists even bought up thousands of dunams of state-of-the-art greenhouses for the Palestinians to make a living from. They invested many millions of dollars to help the Palestinians. Instead the Palestinians looted and destroyed these structures. Not only did the Palestinians not go about forming institutions that could bring about a successful and peaceful state, the Palestinians began bombarding southern Israel towns and communities with thousands of rocket. The Palestinians elected Hamas terrorists to represent them, in order to destroy the Jews.

RAMALLAH, West Bank, Jan. 26 — The radical Islamic movement Hamas won a large majority in the new Palestinian parliament, according to official election results announced Thursday, trouncing the governing Fatah party in a contest that could dramatically reshape the Palestinians’ relations with Israel and the rest of the world….

Has Hamas gone about making a viable state? No. Read the Hamas charter. It calls for jihad and death to the Jews. It calls for the annihilation of the Jewish state. These killers are not about forming state institutions. Their raison d’être (reason for being) is the annihilation of the Jews. Let’s be honest Mr. Hammond. Have you read the PLO and the Hamas charters?

The IDF firing upon Gaza farmers within Gaza is not only a violation of the cease-fire, but also of international law.

You say “Shalit was kidnapped for no reason.” In fact, just the day before, Israel kidnapped two Palestinian civilians, a doctor and his brother, and added them to the thousands of Palestinians abducted and imprisoned and held without charge. The kidnapping of Shalit was intended to gain a bargaining chip for a prisoner exchange.

The kidnapping of civilians is a far greater crime than the capturing of soldiers.

As for your claim that “Israel completely ‘disengaged’ from Gaza”, that is patently false. Israel withdrew military forces and settlements, but implemented a siege of Gaza.

Moreover, the “withdrawal” from Gaza served as political cover for the expansion of settlements and further moves to annex land from the West Bank.

You call Jews “uprooted” from Gaza “law abiding”. In fact, all settlements in the Palestinian territories are illegal under international law. Jewish residents in Israeli settlements live there illegally.

You mention greenhouses and making a living. Israel engages in collective punishment against the Palestinians by bulldozing their orchards, among other things.

You say Hamas was elected “to destroy the Jews”. In fact, the elected Hamas government announced its intention to form a Palestinian state next to an Israeli state along the 1967 borders.

The notion that there is a threat to Israel’s very existence is a delusion.

I’ve read the Hamas Charter. I can only wonder if you ever have actually read it. Kindly point out where it says the things you claim it says.

The Charter says “When enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad becomes a duty binding on all Muslims.” The whole context of the charter is the Zionist ethnic cleansing of what they unilaterally declared to be “Israel” and the subsequent illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories.

I’d also remind readers that Israel supported the rise of Hamas as an opposition party to Arafat’s PLO.

This is part one of my response. My time is a little limited. It may take a few hours to answer you fully.

You wrote: “Let’s start with your remarks….The IDF firing upon Gaza farmers within Gaza is not only a violation of the cease-fire, but also of international law.

You wrote: “Shalit was kidnapped for no reason.” In fact, just the day before, Israel kidnapped two Palestinian civilians, a doctor and his brother, and added them to the thousands of Palestinians abducted and imprisoned and held without charge. The kidnapping of Shalit was intended to gain a bargaining chip for a prisoner exchange.

To be fair. I would like you to provide links from credible, at least fairly objective sources. You say the IDF fired on Gaza farmers. I’m not saying no. I’m not sure. Mistakes are made in war. Maybe these farmers were not aware of the security zone. Maybe they were not farmers but terrorists. Again please provide a link to the news story or stories. You say Israel “kidnapped” two Palestinian civilians, a doctor and his brother. Again, can you provide a link?

How do we know these two were not arrested for criminal acts? The kidnapping of Shalit was intended to gain a bargaining chip. What sense of justice dictates that it is right to kidnap for a bargaining chip?

The Bible prescribes the death penalty for kidnapping. Maybe you do not honor Biblical law or the law of Moses. What law-abiding people or state accepts kidnapping for ransom as just or right or proper? Do you know what this “bargaining chip” entails? Many hundreds of Islamic jihadist terrorists — many with blood on their hands — in return for one young man?

You wrote: “The kidnapping of civilians is a far greater crime than the capturing of soldiers.”

Again, I would appreciate it if you would support this charge with some kind of link or article or other evidence. I’m not saying no. I would like to see evidence.

Mr. Hammond: As for your claim that “Israel completely ‘disengaged’ from Gaza”, that is patently false. Israel withdrew military forces and settlements, but implemented a siege of Gaza.”

What is the definition of siege according your lexicon? Israel continues to provide food, medicine, aid and electricity to these people even as they rain down thousands of rockets on Israel’s cities. In ancient times a “siege” would utterly starve out a city to the point of surrender; like the Romans, the Babylonians, the Assyrians did to the Jews. The siege was so terrible, mothers and fathers ate their children. What is a siege in your view? This is nothing like any siege I have read about. Did the Allies send food, medicine and aid to German civilians as they bombed out German cities? Did Russia provide aid to Grozny while they were leveling the city? How do you define a siege?

You wrote: “Moreover, the “withdrawal” from Gaza served as political cover for the expansion of settlements and further moves to annex land from the West Bank.

I would like to believe this is so but I doubt it. Israel’s leaders are committed to this phony peace process; “land for peace.” For me, the land of Israel belongs to Jews by right.

You call Jews “uprooted” from Gaza “law abiding”. In fact, all settlements in the Palestinian territories are illegal under international law. Jewish residents in Israeli settlements live there illegally.

This is not true. Only Jimmy Carter called the settlements illegal. Reagan rejected this charge. Not even Bush calls the settlements illegal, only an obstacle to peace. If the United Nations is your guide for what is legal and illegal, count me out. To me, the United Nations is a criminal organization. Are you a supporter of the UN?

You wrote: “You say Hamas was elected “to destroy the Jews”. In fact, the elected Hamas government announced its intention to form a Palestinian state next to an Israeli state along the 1967 borders.”

Please. Where do find this? “The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine has been an Islamic Waqf throughout the generations and until the Day of Resurrection, no one can renounce it or part of it, or abandon it or part of it. No Arab country nor the aggregate of all Arab countries, and no Arab King or President nor all of them in the aggregate, have that right, nor has that right any organization or the aggregate of all organizations, be they Palestinian or Arab, because Palestine is an Islamic Waqf throughout all generations and to the Day of Resurrection. Who can presume to speak for all Islamic Generations to the Day of Resurrection?”

“The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.” (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

Mr. Hammond wrote: The Charter says “When enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad becomes a duty binding on all Muslims.” The whole context of the charter is the Zionist ethnic cleansing of what they unilaterally declared to be “Israel” and the subsequent illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories.”

How does Hamas determine Holy Land is Islamic land? Even the Qur’an says Allah gave the Holy Land to the Jews.

“O my people! Go into the holy land which Allah hath ordained for you. Turn not in flight, for surely ye turn back as losers.”

Who is Hamas to question the wisdom of Allah?

You wrote: “I’d also remind readers that Israel supported the rise of Hamas as an opposition party to Arafat’s PLO.”

You are right. Because Israel’s government does something, this does not make it right. Israel’s government accepted the Bush road map. The Sharon government supported the uprooting of thousands of law abiding Jews from the land, only because they were Jews; because the Muslim-Arabs do not want any Jews in land they claim as their own. Better than one million Arabs live in Israel within the so-called “green line.” Israel’s government accepts the idea of two states in the Holy Land; Israel and Palestine. To me this is immoral. I do not support Israel’s government when its policy is immoral.

steve klein,
the idea of a region being “holy” originated among mad hebrew priests who hated canaanites as per noah’s curse against them, gen. 10:25.

in fact, the region had been accursed for millennia. in add’n, it’s an impoverished land and hebrews by conquering it (if torah is correct) were severely punished by an assyrian-canaanitic-shemitic people.

later jahweh punishes judeans by near total eradication and dispersal of judeans throughout arab lands.

so, the question arises why wld mad priests punish so severely own people by commanding them to take canaan by sword and to slay all animals and people situated within the borders of a ‘promised land’ ?

i think we know at least one reason for such cruelty: priests wanted to spread or maintain their cult above everything else; just as they do now.
thnx

You can do your own research. What Jeremy Hammond has written has been well documented and easily accessible. Asking him to come up with references that are “credible” or “objective” is a non-starter since you have set yourself up as the arbiter of these criteria.

The UN has repeatedly passed resolution after resolution condemning Irael’s expansionism and it’s continued settlements. This is not something Jimmy Carter stated out of thin air. Try Resolution 446, for instance.

I’ve seen the kind of over and over resistance of international laws and treaties by Israel and your red herrings of “credible” sources time and again. Yours is not based on fact, or human rights, but on the expansionist policies of the Israel war machine state who wrap themselves in the history of the Holocaust to protect them against the very actions that produced that Holocaust for the one now happening in Gaza.

Israel has more human rights violation than almost any other nation on the planet. But you will consider all of these not “objective” enough. Nothing is objective for Zionist ideologues who see only one truth. A truth that holds almost no sway in the rest of the civilized world.

Yes, Israel kidnapped two Palestinians civilians on July 24, 2006. I don’t recall their names and don’t have time to dig through my files to find the documentation at the moment, but a quick Google search and I found this article that notes the fact:

They joined thousands of Palestinians who have been imprisoned without charge.

You refer to the capture of Shalit as a “kidnapping”. I would remind you that Shalit was a uniformed soldier.

But if you want to bring the Torah into the argument, I would merely observe that Israel is violating God’s laws to the extreme in its punishment of the Palestinians.

I’m not interested in debating semantics with you. My definition of a “siege” is a blockade of food, medical supplies, fuel, and other necessary humanitarian goods. Israel has allowed only the most minimal supplies to go through, keeping Gazans on the brink of what human rights groups have long called a humanitarian disaster.

You may “doubt it” that Israel used its “withdrawal” from Gaza as political cover to expand its policy of annexation and settlements in the West Bank, but that’s the fact of the matter.

As for your comment, “For me, the land of Israel belongs to Jews by right.” This is not a matter of any private interpretation. By right, the land does not belong to the Jews.

The settlements are absolutely illegal under international law. Again, this is not a matter of private interpretation. The Geneva Conventions explicitly forbid the transfer of population from the territory of an occupying power into the occupied territories. It’s perfectly unambiguous. The settlements are illegal.

I’m not sure what you mean by your question about being a “supporter of the UN” so can’t answer. I support some efforts by the UN and certainly agree with some of its principles, including those enshrined in the UN Charter, to which Israel is a party, and which Israel is in violation of. However, I am also very critical of the UN.

“Please. Where do find this?” Again, I don’t have time to go through my files, but a simple Google search turns this up on the first hit:

bozh, I use the word “Holy Land” in the loose sense of the term; as a common usage. The term “Holy Land” is no where in the law of Moses that I can find. The only thing I can see that should be holy in the “Holy Land” are its inhabitants. I do not agree with you that the law (Torah) was invented by mad Hebrew priests. I take it at face value. When I read “Thus says the LORD….” to Moses I accept that the Almighty spoke to Moses. You may not accept this. So be it. YHWH punished the Judean for exactly the reason the prophets warned the Judeans He would punish them; because they did not keep His law and they turned aside and worshipped other gods; the gods and the abominations of the nations that surrounded Isreal. This is why YHWY punished the Israelites.

Max, I am sorry. You are being unreasonable here. No, it iss not too much to ask for a source. You tell me to do my own research and I do. That is how I found this site. I am on Lakotah Sioux mailing list because I have an interest in the plight of Native Americans. I notice this morning the web site is using Mr. Hammond’s material — “The Five Top Lies About Israel’s Assault On Gaza” — without attribution or none that I could find. So I did a little research and I found a couple of Hammond’s sites.

Only Mr. Hammond is not giving me enough to go on. A doctor and his brother were kidnapped by the Israelis or by the Israeli government? Come on Max. Where do I begin to find this? If Mr. Hammond has a source why can’t he give it? Even if it is a non-objective source or a biased, please give me somewhere to start. Then maybe I can respond that it is biased.

It’s easy to throw out all these accusations against Israel, like your “Israel has more human rights violations than almost any other nation.” Says who? This ammoral Amnesty Internationals or the criminal Human Rights Watch? I don’t trust these Israel-hating / bashing groups. They are just like the United Nations. They have a dishonest, insidious agenda. I don’t care if the head of Amnesty or HRW is a Jew. There are plenty of self-hating Jews. Look at men like Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky!

You start with an unreasonable request, that these facts be supported by a “credible” source. And who will just this. You think men like Finelstein and Chomsky are not credible. So, are the UN resolutions credible?

I’ve heard the kind of “reasonable” requests which are not requests for sources, but sheer red herrings while people are being killed w/ US made and IDF are executing hundreds (and soon to be thousands) of Palestinian children, and civilians.

Who are these Hamas? How do you determine that they are in a Mosque, or in a neighborhood and that the neighborhood, which has Palestinian children are worth the cost of your pathology?

But pathological behavior has its own rationale, its twisted sense of reasonablness which will not be satisfied because the world is dangerous…blah blah blah

There is nothing more unreasonable then the pathology of Israelis warring. So, there is no credible source which will suit your request; and there never will be – that too is unreasonable, Steven Klein.

Let me just say, I read YNet even though it is extraordinarily biased toward the Palestinian cause and a two state solution which I oppose, like Ha’aretz which I believe is more biased, if that is possible. I will however give YNet credit for fairness on the Talkbacks. They post right-leaning comment to their credit. On the particular article you cite, I came across the following Talkback:

#35. Johan Odin, # 31

Firing warning shots at those approaching the border is not a violation of any truce, but standard practice at any hostile border anywhere in the world.
Firing mortar shells and missiles into a country’s territory is a violation.
Is that so terribly hard to understand?

Michael , Ra’anana, Israel (06.27.08)

Beyond that Mr. Hammond, again I do not have any confidence in the fairness, the equity or the justice of the United Nations. I hold that it is a criminal organization unless someone can convince me otherwise. Were I in a policy making position like a U.S. president or an Israeli prime minister, I would strongly urge these respective nations to withdraw membership from the United Nations. Like the League of Nations that preceded it, the UN has out-lived its usefulness. I’m sure you know, the League was one of President Woodrow Wilson’s Utopian innovations, just like his other thirteen points. Is this president (Mr. Bush) Utopian? You bet he is.

The Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, said on Saturday his government was willing to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders…..

The piece goes on:

Clare Short, who served in the cabinet of former British prime minister Tony Blair, asked Haniyeh to repeat his offer. He said the Hamas government had agreed to accept a Palestinian state that followed the 1967 borders and to offer Israel a long-term “HUDNA” (EMPHASIS MINE), or truce, if Israel recognized the Palestinians’ national rights….”.

I am quoting here from persons and / or sources I trust. I am somewhat familiar with Muhammad’s treaty of Hudaibiya, having read a couple of books about the prophet. I am not a scholar on Islam.

‘According to traditional Islamic law a hudna can only be concluded “if Muslims are weak” (‘Umdat al-Salik, o9.16), so that they have time to gather strength to fight again more effectively.

‘The prophet Mohammad struck a legendary, ten-year hudna with the Quraysh tribe that controlled Mecca in the seventh century. Over the following two years, Mohammad rearmed and took advantage of a minor Quraysh infraction to break the hudna and launch the full conquest of Mecca, the holiest city in Islam.

‘When Yassir Arafat infamously invoked Mohammad’s hudna in 1994 to describe his own Oslo commitments “on the road to Jerusalem,” the implication was clear. Arafat was asserting to his Islamic brethren that he will, “when his circumstances change for the better, take advantage of some technicality to tear up existing accords and launch a military assault on Israel.”

You cited: 2Ki 17:17-18 (I am guessing) to point out Israel’s crimes against the Palestinians:

” And they (the Israelites) caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.”

We read Palestinian leaders that have, from time to time, made claim to be the descendants of the ancient Canaanites. The ones YHWH commanded Moses to remove from the land of Israel. The Canaanites practiced all kinds of wicked and lewd rituals in the worship of their gods. One of the more hideous acts the Canaanites did for their gods was child sacrifice. They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to their gods, to molten Molech, to Ba’al, what have you — they burned them alive in their gods — much the same as Palestinian parents sacrifice their sons and their daughters to their gods in the form of fiery explosions or suicide martyrdom operations; in order to be a pleasing aroma to the god Allah. These are the same sort of people that YHWH warned the prophet:

You shall not behave thus toward the LORD your God, for every abominable act which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.

“Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it. (Deu chapter 12)

“…. then you shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their figured stones, and destroy all their molten images and demolish all their high places….

‘But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you, then it shall come about that those whom you let remain of them {will become} as pricks in your eyes and as thorns in your sides, and they will trouble you in the land in which you live.

‘And as I plan to do to them, so I will do to you.’ ” (Numbers chapter 33)

yes, max,
the idea is to drag us into dwelling on a insignificant detail or, rather, of pripheral value to our understanding what goes.
and if the detail shows isr wrong, and proof cannot be obtained ab its validity/accuracy, then all claims ab isr’s crimes r suspect or untrue.
or the happenning can be proven, but never to criminals.
criminals always right. thnx

Max Shields, you ask, who are these Hamas? How do I (Steve) determine that they are in a Mosque, or in a neighborhood and that the neighborhood, which has Palestinian children are worth the cost of my pathology?

Why do you call this my pathology? I often say, in war mistakes are made and people are killed. War is not pretty Max.

In the second world war, the Nazis firebombed Poland and Rotterdam. Later they firebombed London, Rotterdam, Coventry and other British cities. The allies responded in kind and then some. I am not a “just war” theorist. It is ironic that the Roman Catholic church is responsible for just war theory; the church that sponsored the Crusades and all the Inquisitions. The Church whose WWII pope (Pope Pius XII) could not bring himself to publicly condemn Hitler and Nazi atrocities; who did not excommunicate Hitler and other Nazis that were Catholics in good standing; who concluded a concordat with Nazi criminal Adolf Hitler; who was responsible for the dissolution of the powerful Catholic Center party in Germany which might have fought Hitler and the Nazis. Instead Catholics were led to pray for Herr Hitler.

War is not clean or pretty. The German people, like the Palestinians, supported the Nazi leadership by and large. They supported the Nazi war effort. Many, if not most, supported Nazi atrocities against the Jews and other sub-humans.

How do I determine that they are in a Mosque, or in a neighborhood and that the neighborhood, which has Palestinian children are worth the cost of my pathology?

Quite honestly I cannot say how many innocent Germans there were in Nazi Germany. Obviously thouse that resisted Hitler at the cost of their lives were innocent. Today’s Pope Benedict did not resist.

I cannot say how many innocents there are in the Mosques of Gaza where the overwhelming majority support suicide-homicide bombings of innocent Jewish women and children. Surely there are some innocents, but how many are there?

You shall not kill
You shall not steal (kidnap)
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour
You shall not covet anything that is your neighbours (including their land, or water).

Israel has spent its entire existence violating these four of the 10 Commandments.

Israel thus violates own religious morality, as well as black letter international law.

1947-48 formation which denied Palestinians right to self determination / role in formation of Israel.
1949 Ben-Gurion dreams up his “fantastic plan” of a “Greater Israel”, which includes the Egyptian Sinai, all of Jordan west of Jordan river, all Lebanese territory south of Litani River.
1951 UN passes SC Res. 93, calling upon Israel to cease its illegal building of settlements in the demilitarized zones.
1953: before his departure, Ben-Gurion, relying upon Moshe Dayan as executor, set in motion a plan to absorb the demilitarized zones estb 1949. Dayan unleashes a program of forcibly relocating Arab inhabitants from the DMZ, installing Israeli troops disguised as settlers. Also begins construction project to divert the flow of the Jordan River to the Negev region of Israel. Syria, which has already offered to give up 70% of its interest in the DMZ to resolve the issue, protests to the UN. THe U.S. then brokers an arrangement wherein Israel abandons its water diversion project in exchange for virtually total control over the DMZ.
1953: Israel massacres 69 Jordanian civilians at the village of Qibya, in the West Bank region.
1954: The returning Ben-Gurion begins “prodding” Egypt into outright war by attacking an Egyptian army headquarters on outskirts of Gaza City on Feb 28, killing 37, wounding 31. Egypt protests to the UN. No reaction is given.
1954: July 23, group of Israeli intelligence operatives are apprehended in Cairo while attempting false flag attack on theater frequented by American and British nationals. Intent is to strain U.S. and British relations with Egypt.
1954: 5 ISraeli soldiers are captured deep in Syrian territory. As a response, Israeli defense minister Pinhas Lavon orders the world’s first highjacking of an airliner-a pair of IAF fighters are asssigned to force a Syrian airliner out of its flight path, and to land in Israel. International uproar forces Israel to release the plane within 48 hours.
1955: Us.S. Sec. of State John Foster DUlles secretley offers to commit the U.S. to a formal mutual defense pact with Israel in exchange for an Israeli agreement to cease cross-border provocations and abandoning plans for territorial expansion. Israel declines.
1955: Mar 29. SC Res 106 is passed condemning the “prearranged and planned attack ordered by Israeli authorities [and] committed by Israeli regular armed forces against Egyptian armed forces in the Gaza strip” on Feb. 28 1954. U.S. blocks any provisions involving penalties. Egyptian President Nasser, who has until then acted to constrain the desire of the hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees displaced into Egypt to engage in guerrilla operations against Israel, reverses his position.
1955: Nov 2, Ben-Gurion announces policy of “confrontation” with Egypt. That night Israeli troops assault and destroy Egyptian positions in al-Sabha, killing 50 soldiers and capturing 50 more. Internal documents later reveal that the unprovoked attack is part of a strategy of “prodding Nasser to go to war.”
1955: Dec 11, Israel attacks Syrian military positions on the Golan Heights, unprovoked. Violates 1949 armistice agreements.
1958: UN SC res 127 passed condemning Israeli impoundment of Jordanian property in the demilitarized zone – another violation of the 1949 armistice agreements.
1962: UN SC res 171, condemning Israel’s “flagrant violation” in attacking Syrian positions on the Golan Heights on the night of Mar 16-17.
1964: Israel undertakes a “policy of escalation” against Syria in the area of Lake Kinneret (from which Israel had been diverting water since 1959). According to Moshe Dayan “80 percent” of all the clashes between Israel and Syria during this period are “deliberately provoked” by Isreal”
Nov. 24 1966: U.S. endorses SC Res. 228, censuring Israel for its ‘largescale and carefully planned attack’ on the Jordanian town Samu, south of Hebron, resulting in considerable ‘loss of life and heavy property damage’ on Nov. 13. Emphasis is placed on asserting that Israel’s ongoing ‘actions of military reprisal cannot be tolerated.’ U.S. blocks penalty or enforcement provisions.
1972, General Ezer Weizman, later president, added that a political settlement without expansion would mean that Israel could not ‘exist according to the scale, spirit, and quality she now embodies’
General Haim Bar-Lev, a leading figure in the governing Labor Party, expressed the common understanding when he wrote in a Labor Party journal that ‘we can have peace, but I think if we continue to hold out we can obtain more.’
Dec. 14 1973: U.S. declines to endorse UNGA Res. 3151G (XXVII), which condemns inter alia the ‘unholy alliance’ between SA racism and Zionism.
Nov. 10 1975: U.S. refuses to endorse UNGA Res. 3379, which concludes that ‘zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination,’ and therefore contrary to the 1963 Declaration on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. Intense U.S. pressure prevents key signatories from following up with sanctions against Israel similar to those already imposed on SA.
Sept. 22 1977: Israel, in collaboration with SA, conducts its first test detonation of a nuclear weapon in the Kalahari Desert, violating both the 1963 Treaty Banning Nuclear Weapons Tests in the Atmosphere, in Outer Space, and Under Water and the 1970 Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. While neither SA nor Israel is a signatory to either treat, Israeli nuclear weapons development has plainly been facilitated by long-term U.S. assistance in avoiding IAEC inspections of its Dimona reactor, and a concomitant default by the US on its obligation under the Non-Proliferation Treaty to conduct such inspections itself. Israel’s cooperation with SA in this instance points to a chronic violation of the UN imposition of a comprehensive arms/trade embargo of the apartheid regime dating back to SC. Res. 121 in 1963 (Israeli trade with SA exceeds $100 billion in 1975). In any event, it turns out that Israel is by this point possessed of about 100 nuclear warheads, as well as Jericho I missiles with which to deliver them; by 1980, its ‘Samson Option’ is endowed with 200 warheads: by 1985, it has added hundreds of low-yield nuclear artillery rounds and landmines to its arsenal. Self-evidently, Israel’s technical knowledge of weapons production is passed along to SA, which in 1970 announces discovery of a new and more efficient uranium enrichment procedure, ideal for producing weapons-grade material. The U.S. maintains cordial relations with Israel–and SA– as if nothing has happened.

Just a sample of the evidence against Zionism/Israel.

Only way to make sense of situation is to understand that Zionism is inherently expansionist, and Zionist leaders have stated that fact several times. Israel does not seek peace but rather increased area.

Suthiano thank you for laying out the UN resolutions. There are hundreds, all violated by the state of Israel and how do they get away withy it? Their protector – US government and AIPAC zionist backers make sure that the Security Council will not enforce.

This government used one resolution against Saddam to invade Iraq without any provocation whatsoever. And yet there are literally hundreds of UN resolutions, and thoroughly documented human rights crimes by every CREDIBLE human rights NGO in the world – and yet these Zionists throw out one red herring after another while children are being butchered by them in Gaza.

This is pathology, this is madness. This is what the JRs and the Steve Kleins of the world go around spewing, hoping that their conflation of the Holocaust with Zionism will buy them ill-informed support.

These are murders and their accomplices. Without remorse, baby killers who think that only Israeli lives are worth anything. No one in this world compares to one Zionist life. This is Hilter Act II brought to you by the holy zionist regime of Israel.

isr in any shape or size is just too tiny, impoverished, etc., to prosper.
even judeans had been leaving it from 70 ad to 150 ad.
only ab few hundred remained; most of them in j’lem. but even these judaists may be mixed w. canaanitic pop.
so, euros may be also killing descendants of jews. thnx

Suthiano, you misquote and misapply Biblical verses. The Commandment is NOT “You shall not kill, otherwise God would be a liar and a hypocrite since He sanctioned killing for capital offenses; since he sanctioned defensive war as a necessary evil. All these things are killing. You must be reading the very flawed KJV of the Bible. The proper translation is, “You shall not murder..

You shall not steal (kidnap)
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour
You shall not covet anything that is your neighbours (including their land, or water).

I would submit to you, it is the Muslim Arab world that is guilty of these breaches. I’m not saying the Jews are perfect. We do not however covet any one’s land. It is the Arabs who covet our land. It is the Arabs who bear false witness against the Almighty, the God who gave the Jewish people our land. I understand you and many others do not like the fact that God gave the Israelites this piece of land. I cannot help you.

I don’t know what revisionist, Israel-hating historian you have quoted here in your recitation of all these charges. I looked up just a few of your United Nations Security Council resolutions. Whoever wrote this is a purveyor of lies in my opinion. Like I wrote above, war is not pretty. Mistakes are made in war. Israel has made plenty of mistakes.

Its just that between Israel and the Muslim Arab world, Israel is not the bad guy here. Israel is the “good guy” inasmuch as any side can be the good side. I hold that the Allies were the good side against the evil Axis powers during the second world war. How about you? Obviously the good side made mistakes; even committed atrocities. Still I believe in good vs. evil, especially in this our day. The Muslim Arab world is not the good side. Far from it.

Max, you wrote: “This is pathology, this is madness. This is what the JRs and the Steve Kleins of the world go around spewing, hoping that their conflation of the Holocaust with Zionism will buy them ill-informed support.”

Why do you say I’ve got a pathology? Are you a psychologist? Madness? Who is JR? I go around “spewing” this madness, conflating the Holocaust with Zionism, etc. Have I invoked the Holocaust? I don’t think I have. I am not asking for your ill informed support of for your sympathy. I am only trying to explain “our” side. That is all.

steve, stealing land; holding 8td kidnapped civilians w, charge; building walls, etc., may be defence to u but not to ab 5+bn people.
u in fact r defending a cult and not a people but an admixture of euros and asians.
u’r not gonna tell me that paul newman, alan king, streissand, douglases, lieberman, bacall, einstein are shemitic; ie, desccendans of shem or even judeans. thnx

The Hamas government has placed dozens of Fatah members under house arrest out of fear that they might exploit the current IDF operation to regain control of the Gaza Strip.

The move came amid reports that the Fatah leadership in the West Bank has instructed its followers to be ready to assume power over the Gaza Strip when and if Israel’s military operation results in the removal of Hamas rule.

Fatah officials in Ramallah told The Jerusalem Post that Hamas militiamen had been assaulting many Fatah activists since the beginning of the operation last Saturday. They said at least 75 activists were shot in the legs while others had their hands broken….

Steve Klein,
et me chime in here. What the Israeli government is doing is not self-defense, it’s aggression. If you refuse to admit that, the discussion can’t go further. It takes a big man to admit that his fellows are the wrongdoers.

Steve Klein, Israeli military have been torturing Palestinians for decades. A quick Google search will provide plenty of proof of this. So the question that you need to ask is, why do so few Americans know about this?

I’d like to also say that a serious problem arises when trying to make others see the light about the Israeli government’s long history of tyrannical actions. The problem arises in the verbal defense of Hamas and many other established political/theocratic bodies in the Islamic world. Whether we on the side of sensibility care to admit it or not, it’s very hard to persuade much of the world to have enough sympathy for the Palestinians to step in and attempt to intervene. It’s difficult for western nations in particular to understand or abide the harsh code of laws excercised by many Islamic regimes. Not that you can blame people. Presumably, we exist in an advanced enough period of our evolution that suicide bombings, beheadings, dismemberment and treating women as property should by all rights be a thing of the past. Having said that, I’d like to remind Americans of our own puritanical roots, when offenes as minor as laziness (sloth) incurred some type of corporal punishment. In fact, Islam and Christianity both have their long histories of intolerance and brutality, as we know all too well. Ironically to this discussion, Judaism has (at least in centuries past) been the most tolerant of “sinning.”
In Saudi Arabia recently, one Canadian student is facing execution while his brother is to be lashed fo “accidentally” killing a Saudi over there. Who knows what actually happened, but if it had been in a European country, these kids’ parents would at least not be fearing for their sons’ physical safety. This is the problem with singling out Israel as the major aggressor of that region of the world. When people hear about beheadings; think about Daniel Pearl; see women wrapped in black wool from head to toe, it makes it a lot easier for them to give Israel the benefit oof the doubt. This, of course, is helped along greatly by the subconscious, instilled guilt complex over the Holocaust that has been bred into most people. And not to say that all Muslim peoples govern themselves under the practices I’ve talked about. Some do; many do not. The ones that do, however, leave a large blemish on the image of Islam as a whole in the eyes of many.
My point is, I suppose, that good and evil exist everywhere. But we need to sort out the good from the bad in each given situation. In this one, clearly it’s Israel. Only a fool (or a zonist) cannot see that.

There seems to be an endless argument on who started what. If people simply look back to November 2008 at articles in the Times, Guardian, Haaretz, etc, and also Amnesty International they will have been informed to the fact that Israel was not just blockading Gaza they were crossing the border, murdering Palestinians and also conducting air-raids on Gaza.http://www.creative-i.info/?p=3421
Israel was also constantly shooting and attacking any Gazan fisherman out in their boats. Israel never held to the ceasefire at all. You can read in the articles from November that it was following the ground incursions and air-raids that Hamas attacked with rockets. As for the ridiculous charge that the rockets are indiscriminate, well perhaps teh Americans or Israelis can donate them some precision guided missiles and then Hamas can conduct a “civilised” war just like Israel and the US. And by the way check out Stephen Lendman’s recent article, many of the early rockets were actually being fired from outside Gaza.

“How is defending my people and our land against my own interests?”
LOL! Which land are you talking about? The one managed by the Great Realtor in the Sky? And what is this term “Holy Land” what a joke!

I agree that an argument based on pitting one religion against another is meaningless and has nothing to do with the killing in the Gaza.

This is not a holy war, it is not even a war, it is a genocidal slaught of innocent people.

Whether Hamas arrests Fatah is completely and thoroughly beside the point. What does that have to do with invading and killing Palistinians in Gaza (and the West Bank)? Another red herring from our Zionist occupiers.

“The German people, like the Palestinians, supported the Nazi leadership by and large. ”
Actually, In Palestine Muslims and Jews (about 7% of the population as at 1917) lived in peace and there was no Nazi leadership. The Nazi party was in Germany which is in northern Europe, Palestine is in the Middle East. I hope you appreciate me taking the time out to explain to you the simple geography and history you seem to not only lack but are unable to accept. This condition is called insanity.

I apologize to DV if this is double-posted. But after I clicked “Submit” nothing appeared (if it isn’t posted immediately, it usually notes that it is awaiting moderation). So I’m reposting this:

“Only Mr. Hammond is not giving me enough to go on. A doctor and his brother were kidnapped by the Israelis or by the Israeli government? Come on Max. Where do I begin to find this? If Mr. Hammond has a source why can’t he give it?”

Israel kidnapped Osama and Mustafa Abu Muamar on June 24, just one day before Hamas captured Gilad Shalit. As far as I know, they are still in Israeli custody, held without charge. If anyone knows anything different, please inform us.

A meaningless term used by intellectual cowards. Is a person who criticizes the US government a “self-hating American”? Imagine the term applied as “a self-hating Christian” or “a self-hating Muslim”. What a farce.

“Firing warning shots at those approaching the border is not a violation of any truce, but standard practice at any hostile border anywhere in the world.”

I’m afraid not. It may happen, but if so, it’s a crime. Firing across borders at people on their own land is a crime.

“Beyond that Mr. Hammond, again I do not have any confidence in the fairness, the equity or the justice of the United Nations.”

Nor do I. Take, for instance, it’s silence with respect to Israel’s crimes against the Palestinians.

You wanted a source to support my remarks about how Hamas has stated it seeks a Palestinian state alongside Israel along the 1967 borders. I gave you one. So you see I was right.

“blessing Abraham is something, by the way, Mr. Hammond is not doing”

What is that supposed to mean? Worshipping YHWH and obeying the Torah (not to mention the Gospel principles of Yeshua) is something Israel is not doing.

The response I’ve received to this is rather overwhelming and I’d like to keep it to one place so I don’t have to keep repeating myself or responding to the same arguments again and again. I’m happy to respond to people there.

angry peasant, I would be a bit careful with labeling Islam with blemished images, because of local customs that may or may not
at all reflect islam teachings. most western thinking about
moslem countries is filtered through the pernicious western
media and often has no relation to the reality. only a long and
unbiased stay in moslem countries would teach westerners (who
do not remain in ghettos like the green zone in baghdad) that the average person there is much like the urban or suburban westerner
here, with the same aspirations, hopes and cares. after all christianity has not shown itself to be so tolerant either and even though its teachings are humane, local customs often distort the church’s teachings with disastrous results for minorities of all kinds. I would caution westerners not to detect the splinter in middle eastern eyes before percieving the beam clogging their own eye (an old arab saying).
I remind people that edward said wrote about this in his important book: ‘orientalism’.

10-12-2008 Interview
Gaza: still no ICRC access to Gilad Shalit
It has been almost 900 days since the Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit, was captured by Palestinian armed factions from Gaza. To date, the ICRC’s attempts to visit him and to establish contact between him and his family have been unsuccessful. Pierre Wettach, the ICRC’s head of delegation in Israel and the occupied territories, explains.

Shalit in Captivity 900 Days, Red Cross Defends Its Efforts
by Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu
(IsraelNN.com) The head of the International Red Cross (ICRC) delegation in Israel said Wednesday he has done whatever is possible to make contact with kidnapped IDF soldier Gilad Shalit but has not been able to surpass political obstacles. Shalit was abducted in June, 2006, 900 days ago, in a Hamas terrorist attack at a Gaza crossing, where two other soldiers were killed….

Why are Hamas genocidal terrorists blocking ICRC from visiting kidnapped Gilad Shalit for better than 900 days? Why have these criminals (that you support) not allowed ICRC to establish contact between him and his family. You defend these genocidal killers and you dare call me a racist?

“The Israeli military said the two brothers were members of the militant group Hamas and were planning attacks on Israel.”

My dictionary defines the word kid⋅nap – to steal, carry off, or abduct by force or fraud, ESP. FOR USE AS A HOSTAGE OR TO EXTRACT RANSOM.

I said: “There are plenty of self-hating Jews.”

You wrote: “A meaningless term used by intellectual cowards. Is a person who criticizes the US government a “self-hating American”? Imagine the term applied as “a self-hating Christian” or “a self-hating Muslim”. What a farce.”

It’s not meaningless. Nor is it intellectual cowardice; unless you consider historians like Paul Johnson intellectual cowards. Writing about Jews like Karl Marx and Heinrich Heine Johnson wrote: “Enlightenment thinkers, both French and German, argued that objectionable features of Judaism had to be erased before Jews could be free: Jews who were discriminated against accepted this, and thus directed their rage more towards the unregenerated Jew than those who persecuted them both. The self-hatred focused on the ghetto Jew, who was of course the anti-Semitic archetype. Heine, who really knew very little about how most Jews lived, used all the standard anti-Semitic cliche’s when in self-hating mood. Marx, who knew even less, borrowed his abuse straight from the gentile student cafe’. (A History of the Jews page 349)

“You wanted a source to support my remarks about how Hamas has stated it seeks a Palestinian state alongside Israel along the 1967 borders. I gave you one. So you see I was right.”

Hamas is committed to the destruction of the Jewish state. Temporary truces (hudnas) are just that; temporary. Hamas might ‘allow’ a Jewish state along the 1967 borders as a temporary tactic on the way toward its ultimate goal. The annihilation of the Jewish state. Just as the PLO had its “phased plan” for Israel’s annihilation, how much more Hamas? According to the Phased Plan, the PLO would first establish its “state of Palestine” on any territory which would be evacuated “by the Zionist enemy.” This new Arab state would then align itself with other “confrontation states” and prepare for the second stage — the eradication of Israel in a renewed onslaught.

I wrote: “blessing Abraham is something, by the way, Mr. Hammond is not doing”

“What is that supposed to mean? Worshipping YHWH and obeying the Torah (not to mention the Gospel principles of Yeshua) is something Israel is not doing.”

You wrote: “A meaningless term used by intellectual cowards. Is a person who criticizes the US government a “self-hating American”? Imagine the term applied as “a self-hating Christian” or “a self-hating Muslim”. What a farce.”

I think this might require further exploration. I am a thirty-seven year registered (conservative) Republican. I grew up in an activist Republican family. My late father was our party chairman, state committeeman, etc. We talked politics at the dinner table. I am what you might call a social conservative and a fiscal conservative. I am pro-life, pro-traditional family. I am a limited government, fiscal conservative. From my perspective, George W. Bush is not a true conservative. He does not honor core or fundamental conservative principles.

Consequently, I have been outspoken in my criticism of Mr. Bush. Additionally, I believe Mr. Bush has given aid, comfort and protection to the enemy; I am speaking of Saudi Arabia and other enemies of America. Al Qaeda is essentially a Saudi proxy. Saudi charities, up to the highest government level, financed bin Laden and Al Qaeda. Bush has hidden this from the public in large part, I believe, because of his, his father’s and Bush family friend’s intimate financial dealings with Saudi princes. Instead he calls these enemies our good friends. He redacts some 28 pages of the 9/11 report that might have implicated his Saudi friends in some small way in the 9/11 atrocities in New York and Washington. Bush arranged the exit of some 140 members of the bin Laden and Saudi Royal families only hours after the 9/11 atrocities, at a time when FAA prohibited all domestic flights. FBI was not able to interrogate these potential witnesses.

There are conservatives like myself who believe these and similar crimes are treasonous.

I have been told by fellow Republicans, because of my criticism of George W. Bush, I am not a good Republican. By your definition I might be a self-hating Republican or a self-hating American. In my view, I am a loyal Republican. I am a loyal American.

I say, shame on my fellow conservatives — shame on Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and other conservatives — for standing by George W. Bush as he has betrayed fundamental conservative princples, not to mention betrayed his nation.

I say, shame on my fellow conservatives — shame on Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and other conservatives — for standing by George W. Bush as he has betrayed fundamental conservative princples, not to mention betrayed his nation.

When you write that about sean or rush it’s almost like they use knowledge. What those two people do is called foolishness.

Steve Klein sounds clinically insane. He has dreams of shooting up mosques with depleted uranium. He thinks the world would be better place if it was just him, his moms and henry kissinger. they would probably start shooting at all living things, accusing them of being terrorists… maybe they’d build a wall to keep out the jackals.

Fortress mentality = terrible life. That is your life Steve Klein… you live in a fortress because if you walked around with real people with your smug, racist beliefs, you would get your ass kicked. You would be looking down at people and they’d be like “who’s this asshole?” But I’m sure you know…

Israeli Zionists are not law abiding peoples. They don’t abide by any laws, whether own, international, religious. Thus own norm established by them suggests they cannot be trusted, as they have no coherent moral code that can be applied universally. Or perhaps more to the point, they have no interest in being held to any such standards.

Since 1948 U.S. has endorsed 43 UN Security Council resolutions on Israeli criminality. U.S. has also blocked enforcement provisions in ALL of the 43 instances.

people are not nor can they be antisemitic or but only antishemitic. the descendants of shem, noah’s son, are hebrews and arabs. the word “semitic” is ok to use if one recognizes the fact that the europeans w. a cult are in no way related to either israelites nor judeans.

both have evanesced. they were severely punished by an assyrian-canaanitic people in 1728 b.c. judeans have been slain/dispersed by romans btw 70 a.d and 15 a.d. many judeans also fled, mostly to arab lands whose language the knew.

i am proshemitic or prosemitic, if one indulges. so far i am relying on torah for this information as well as history ab canaanites, akkadians, chaldeans, arabs, and a few hebraic families.

it seems that only 70 hebrews (the word meaning shepards) left canaan for egypt some 3500-4000 b.c because of a famine.
hebrews originally came to canaan from present n. iraq

so, it seems that hebrew ancestors were chaldeans. be it as it may, we know that torahic narrative is riddled with contradictions/wishful thinking/hatred for canaanites, moabites, amelekites, et al so that its account should not be taken as neither accurate nor adequate.

the socalled jews of today should know all this and begin to realize in what actual danger they are by picking shemites as enemies.
shemites do not fear death.

but the people with torahic cult do because they are not shemitic, among other reasons. ok, enough for this time. thnx

Suthiano: ” The perfidious Jews are not law abiding peoples. They don’t abide by any laws, whether their own, international, religious, etc. Their own norm established by these despicable subhumans suggests they — these vermin; these lice — cannot be trusted, as they have no coherent moral code that can be applied universally. Or perhaps more to the point, the Jew has no interest in being held to any such standards. They must be eliminated from the planet!”

yes, you better believe it, shemites are out to destroy the nonshemites of israel.
and in all likelihood they will one day. and the nonshemites will flee to US mainly i hope.
they are uncle sam’s favorite people right now. but in decades to come who knows how uncle wld feel towards his pets.

remember how uncle had betrayed turkey? by establishing an independent kurdistan in iraq?
even tho turkey was a very strong ally to US which had placed all kinds of nuclearly-armed missiles on turkish soil pointing at usssr.

at one time US was strongly supportive of serbia and iran. but not any longer. thnx

bozh wrote: “the so called jews of today should know all this and begin to realize in what actual danger they are by picking shemites as enemies. shemites do not fear death.”

The sons of Ishmael living in Israel (at least) claim to be the descendants of the ancient Canaanites. This is how they establish their claim to the land of Israel. Ishmael was the son of Hagar, the Egyptian — that is Mizraim.

Now the sons of Ham were Cush and Mizraim and Put and Canaan. (Gen chapter 10) Noah said, “Cursed be Canaan; servant of servants shall he be to his brothers.” (Gen chapter 9)

If the sons of Ishmael claim to be descendants of the ancient Canaanites. If they behave like Canaanites, why do you call them Shemites?

I wish you knew what you meant by “Jews”. Do you mean “Jews” who joined revolutionary communism in late 19th early 20th Century, and were fundamentally opposed to any nationalist movement including Zionism? Do you mean people who made up “Jewish Workers’ League” or “Bund”, who aimed to improve conditions within the societies where they actually lived, and opposed Zionism? Do you mean only people who observe Sabbath? Do you mean people who follow ALL 10 of the 10 commandments? Or are the racist murderers like Livni, Sharon, Peres Jews? How about all the “Jews” working against their own government’s racist policies in Israel? Those people are certainly not .Israeli Zionists. Livni has blue eyes blond hair, is she too shemitic? is she a zionist?

Klein, you can’t shake someone like me. I can’t be hoodwinked by you or any other militant Zionist. I know that antisemitism has been big force of help to Zionist movement… In 1911 the view was expressed by the Encylcopaedia Britannica, for instance, that ‘With the passing away of anti-Semitism, Jewish nationalism will disappear'” (Davies, Europe A History, 847). Little militants like you think your clever trying to paint all criticisms with same brush… think you’ll get me to say something racist… but the thing is I’m not racist. I believe all peoples are equal. Unfortunately not all peoples have equal desires to get along. Israeli Zionists (which distinguishes from Zionists that existed pre-Israel) have proven – as mentioned above – that they have no intent to try to get along with other peoples, but rather bully, kill (much like Amerikkkan counterparts). In so far as Geneva Convention came out of Nuremberg Trials, very telling that Zionists and Israeli Zionists had no interest in upholding international norms created in reponse to the Holocaust, or shoah as it is called in Hebrew… By the way, there was that little slip up by deputy defense minister Matan Vilnai last year, when he threatened Gazans with a “bigger holocaust”, for firing their rockets. I guess he and fellow Zionist leaders decided to implement “Operation Gazan Shoah” 6 days ago.

That’s right Klein, you can pretend I’m a mass murderer, who seeks to wipe people from the planet. I have never done any of these things, nor advocated for them. You are defending Israeli slaughter of Palestinians, which is ongoing and real.

steve, thnx for your input.
if my memory serves me well, i said that canaanites are descendants of noah’s son, Ham.
noah had cursed Ham and canaanites. mind you, all this is according to the priests who may have wrote and rewrote torah.
shem was also noah’ son. noah did not curse arabs. thus, i concluded that they are descendants of Shem.
i don’t recall calling canaanites “shemites”. if i did once or twice, then i was mistaken.
it is believed that assyrians were not at first a semitic people. but as semites from canaan migrated into assyrian land the two people eventually became one people.
it is likely that amonites, amorites, canaanites, assyrians, arabs, et al were one people at one time.
because they all spoke dialects of one language, a semitic or shemitic one.
how ab original assyrians? did they also speak a dialect of a semitic tongue? well, historians are not sure.
canaanites, by sharing the same tongue with arabs, must have also been of shemitic origin, now that i think about it.
but hebrews who came to canaan from n.iraq may or may have not been shemitic at one time.
nobody knows for sure if they are not of chaldean or assyrian origin.
but hebrews did speak a dialect of the shemitic tongue. had they always spoken a shemitic dialect? or took up the language when they migrated from mesopotamia to canaan? let historians determine that.
be it as it may, i think we can conclude that hebrews, arabs, canaanites, moabites, edomites, midians, amelekites, jebusites, amorites, et al were one people; let’s say 5-10 td yrs ago
so we can group them as semites. i understand that even chaldeans and akkadians had some shemitic genes. that’s the best i cld do at this time. thnx

Quite frankly if my father threatened to sacrifice me, or shunned my brother, i would seperate and never see him again. these actions are not manifestations of love. These are actions of insanity/elitism/hatred. Perhaps if Abraham had given just a fraction of the love he gave to his “GOd” to his sons, things would have turned out better.

Of course it is rather funny to talk about “Abraham”… his identity is a construct of several different texts written in different languages. Who he was, no one alive “knows”… acts atributed to him in Old Testament/Penteteuch aren’t examples of good conduct.

Steve, here is just a sample of the last names of Jewish slave owners in the United States: Monsanto, Asher, Barsimson, Levy, Zuntz, Simons, Jacob, Nathan, Judah, Myers, Hyam, Isaacs, Hayes, Frankfort, etc. There exists several more names and even these last names are for different families of slave-owners and slave-traders. For anyone to believe that Jews did not support, provide ships for, and were not actively involved in the slave trade in the United States and abroad is a complete fool! Even the quotes from Manuel Jacob Monsanto during his sale of slaves in Louisana is on record! Throughout history, Jews have supported the subjugation of blacks in the United States. Read Rabbi Marc Lee Raphael’s book about the Jewish slave owners; Jews dominated the ‘triangular trade’ which brought slaves from Africa to the West Indies (for molasses)! Oh yeah, read about 1656 Curacao and the Jewish domination of the slave trade! Jews not only dominated the slave trade and thusly made their enormous incomes which resulted in several businesses which operate TODAY, they did so with a fervent hunger of relegating blacks (Africans) forever to a subservient class!
I could go on and point out more facts which depict the true history of Jews in America and abroad but it is pointless when you live in an environment where it is ‘politically correct’ to shed tears for the victims of the Holocaust but remain silent about the Jewish involvement in slavery and the destruction of African-Americans (through sociological programs and systematic genocide.
It comes as little suprise that Israel continues to further Jewish and Zionist agenda.
Believing that others are subservient and not worthy of living (except to serve Jewish needs) seems to be their modus opperundi! Their ancestors did so … therefore, why should Israel be any different!
Alas, Israel need not fear the next four years. Obama is a staunch supporter of its’ illegal occupation of Palestine and further broadening of its’ supposed boundaries throughout the Middle East. No American President will oppose Israel… to do so would be political and possibly personal suicide!
I read some of the quotes which spoke about Abraham (Ibrahim), and other Biblical Patriarchs. I would just like to state, as a HISTORY MAJOR!!!, do not be fooled by individuals who must lie to justify their attrocities. The Bible is an amalgam of several preceding texts, spoken events, etc. Furthermore, if anyone took the time to research world history, it would soon become evident that the Jews of today are in no way related those spoken of in the Bible! When facts which uncovered the Jewish historical myth were discovered, some Jewish scholars attempted to disprove and/or discredit these facts. However, when their attempts proved futile, they altered the geneologies! They actually inserted their names and the names of their ancestors! The Bible has now become a book whereby the Western powers (at the behest of Israel) uses to justify the destruction of a nation!
You readers may wish to investigate as to just how much control Israel actually has over America and the entire Western powers! No major world-altering event has or will occur without Israel’s influence. Research any historical event which has led to the destruction of, or the altering of an entire race, nation, class, etc. and you will note Jewish and (then later) Israel involvement!
I do not write this statement to anger anyone. I simply state the facts as they are! The wool has been covering the eyes of the masses for far too long! Furthermore, it is high-time for individuals to question events and why they occur. Every event is connected to one which precededs. No event has occured spontaneously! When you discover the ‘how’s and why’s ‘ , as you research further, you will discover who or what organization stood to gain from its’ occurrence.
It would be nice to see peace reign. However, as I stated prior, it is not the intent of the Zionist Operation (Israel) to bring about peace. There is no money made during peace!
In closing, I would challenge any who oppose what I have stated to do their research first before they rebut these facts.
And, remember it is not to argue but to enlighten and educate that I have written these things.