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When the voting time rolls around will it say who submitted the work? I dont remember from the intelliframe package contest. (by the way im only using paint since its the only art program I have so im expecting alot better art work from you guys)

Mag_Man_2000
That will be determined by the time the gallery is posted. More than likely the names will be posted however, because as soon as the gallery goes up we will get "Hey number 7 is mine!".. like what happened with the other contest anyway.

Wes_M
Please read ALL of the Questions and Answers (looks up to the last question asked and sees that it was the SAME question, and it was already answered). Thank you.

FOR ALL
I will not answer the same questions over and again. No offense is intended... I took the time to answer them the first time, it is not too much to ask that people read all the Questions and Answers FIRST before asking another one. I will also put this in the FIRST Post and hopefully it will take care of repeat questions.

If by asking it, you give away your concept.. then it IS a concept.. right? And this is a concept contest, right?

Are you wanting to mix different parts made by different manufacturers? Yes, that is allowed.

Are you wanting to stretch current designs a bit, but not TOO much? Yes, that is also allowed.

If you are wanting to ask me if you can put "X" barrel with "Y" body, and slap on a "B" style stock, and plop on a "W" airtank system and gauges...... hmmmmmm No... I can't answer that, and you can't post it either.

And I can not start allowing people to PM or E-Mail me their questions either. I hope you understand.

There are some things I just can not tell you (or other contestants). Many good questions have been asked already. There are also pretty specific guidelines already laid out for people to follow.

I hope this helps you out some... although I have a sinking suspicion that it will not.

Sqweezer
Correct, you do not have to submit an internal diagram for your marker. It is a CONCEPT contest, not a technical contest.

However, I if I may...

from squeezer:We are ONLY submitting the one outside view of the mag....

People may submit only one outside view, but people may find multiple views may work better (and even more so if they want to submit it with multiple color schemes).

I just did not want anyone to read your post and claim that someplace they read only ONE view could be entered per design. Only one GRAPHIC per design, but the designer may put multiple views on their graphic if it assists the effect.

Hats off to Shartley for some serious devotion to this contest and the website. Get some sleep man!!!
There is one aspect of this contest which disturbs me, and I'm going to ignore it, regardless of winning or not.
I can appreciate that Tom wants this stuff to look as real as possible, but some of us don't have the computer skills that others do and are thus left with conventional methods.
I drew up two sketches a while back of what my fantasy E-mags are going to be like(I'm with you manike)
One is of the Micro E-Mag that I just purchased, and the other is based on the modular body design that I'll pick up when they become available.
When I saw this contest, I decided to spruce up my drawings, add some color and a little more detail.
When you glance at what I've drawn, or slightly blur your vision, you'll get the idea as to where I'm headed, but no way do these things look real when observed closely. They are neat and took a lot of time to create, and I think they are worth sharing. I'd encourage anyone else who can't compete with the "realism" of computer graphics to submit whatever they can come up with.
Who cares if you don't win? I certainly don't need a twelfth automag(though I would accept it if I won), and I definitely don't want(and won't accept)to take away someone else winning one of my own triggers.
I'm sure that everyone else is in this for the prizes, and I think that offering such wonderful rewards brings the best out of you all.
I would just hate to see the creative people out there with good ideas be held back because of this rule.
Maybe we should consider it a guideline?
In the end, it's up to the designers of the contest what to post in the gallery and what not to, but I thought I'd offer my two cents.
Thanks,
Dan@the company formerly known as Triggernomics

You also brought up some good points. I can fully understand your position.. but think about this if you will..... what about people who don't even own a computer, or are not connected to the Internet? The contest is excluding them as well, right?

And what about those who can not draw very well? If we opened it up for anyone to enter anything they wanted, you would get those who would not think it is fare that some people can draw and have their work scanned in.. while THEY can't (or not very well).

This is the nature of contests. You have to build the rules and guidelines around your desired effect. This is Tom's desired effect:

I want to see stuff that looks COOL and REAL (as possible). I am looking for creative ideas on looks that can eventually be used in our gun line. I want pictures that make people on other forums say "is that REAL??".

As you can see, hand drawn entries (for the most part) would simply not produce the desired effect, or the one Tom wanted. It would be like going to the Olympics and seeing a race being run... then looking again and seeing that there are children and old people in the race as well... hmmm sounds fair... Gives everyone a chance to get
involved, but takes away from the spirit and concept behind the race.

Tom DOES run contests for other skill levels, and desired results though. So those who do not have the skills or software needed for this one will still have a shot at winning something soon enough. The same thing happened with the Design the Packaging Contest. You could not enter hand drawn entries.. and that is because the results would not be in line with what Tom was looking for.

So, when looked at in the actual light of things, saying
that by not having the skills or software required to meet the guidelines of the contest, it is "holding them back" from showing their ideas, is not quite accurate. And that the contest should be changed to accommodate those not able to meet the requirements would not be in keeping with any standard contest rules or procedures.

What if Tom was to run a Trigger Contest where he wanted people to actually send in their triggers? Not everyone can make one right? So, we should then allow pictures of triggers, right? And then why not just descriptions of triggers, right? See where it would all end up?

Contests are run here to accomplish TWO things. The first is to allow AO Members to participate in the process (by entering or voting) and for them to Win Fantastic Prizes. The second is so that Tom and AGD gets a desired result, effect, or object.

I don't see the rules changing to allow hand drawn entries, sorry. I hope you understand, and do not take offense.

What I WILL do, however(AFTER the contest is over) is to make a Gallery Thread for everyone to post their Hand Drawn concepts. There was nothing stopping anyone from doing so before the contest began, but noone did. I will ask however that NOONE post any such hand drawn concepts until AFTER the contest is over. If you DO, I ask that any of the Moderators DELETE the posts and that a warning be given to the person who posted it. This is because it would be directly interfering with the contest being run.

I would like to say however that I have taken much effort to assist those who may require additional help in this contest. I have not forgotten about people, and have done everything short of actually teaching people how to make the graphics. This would not be done in any other contest being run by any other company. AO and AGD are a step.. no a LEAP.. above any other company and forums for this and other reasons.

I was not offended by your post. I just wanted to provide a bit more insight into why it is being run as it is (another thing most other contests would not do) and hope that you understand. Please do not send any hand drawn entries, they will not be posted in the Contest Gallery. I will be making a Thread for those types of things after the contest is over.

Thank you for your understanding. It is not easy to see people unable to meet the contest criteria, but some criteria had to be made... and enforced. Not an easy or fun job. But like they say... someone had to do it.

HHmm since when did 'Cool and as real (as possible)' mean only computer created images?

I think hand created images fit the original criteria Tom stated if they are done well.

Having worked in Design and Concept in the motor industry I know there are many hand drawn images that will look far far cooler than any computer created image. They just have more 'feel' to them. And some hand images will look more real than some of the computer images entered I bet!

Who is to say the 'real' part of Tom's request is any more important than the 'cool' part? (other than Tom ). I think it would be a mistake to rule out cool for sake of more real. Any anyway many drawings/renderings look very close to being real anyway.

I think people should be able to use what ever skills they have in order to create the 'cool and real (as possible)' if that means hand drawn why not allow it? There may be some amazing ideas and images you are stopping by not allowing hand done drawings. I don't think that is the idea behind this. I think the idea behind this competition is to see ideas and good images.

In my case I can't use Photoshop nor do I have the time to learn it. But I can CAD and so my images will not look like photo's, the light on them may not look realistic, but they will look cool and the final image will be as real as I can make it... I daresay someone could create images like mine by hand and they would look just as 'real'...

Well, no offense to anyone, but since Tom contacted me directly about this, and the contest was inspired by a computer altered graphic, and his intent was not of Hand Drawn pictures.. I think "I" would be the one to determine what Tom wanted, or had in mind... wouldn't you say?

It seems that everyone has their opinions on how the contest should be run, what the rules should be, what things should be accepted, etc... well, without getting into it all.. If YOU were not contacted by Tom himself about what Tom wanted, did not see the correspondence, were not involved in the planning of the contest, or are actually involved in any part of the contest aside from entering your concepts..... It is more than a bit rude and disrespectful to keep this issue going.

I could have very well said, "Who cares what you think. We are doing it this way and I don't have to explain a darn thing to you." But NO, I wanted to show that a little more thought went into it than what some may have realized.

Tom did not intend to have Hand Drawn entries. In fact he even mentioned to warm up your Photoshop (indicating a computer based graphic).... he did not say warm up your pencils. I am not going to consult with every AO Member on every contest point or rule and I should not have to.

Manike, I am disappointed that you even posted what you did. You know very well that Tom put things in MY hands, and that would indicate that I would be the one to make the determinations on various aspects of the contest. It is so that Tom did not HAVE to get involved in the actual running of the contest, and be free to do other AGD business. I know what Tom wanted, what direction he wanted to go, and what types of things he wanted to see out of the entries. That should be enough to satisfy anyone as to who can answer your questions, and what Tom actually wanted.

And being familiar with real concept images myself, and knowing that they are in fact quite often hand drawn, I know that the average person is actually LESS likely to produce that quality by hand, than by computer. So the issue is ENDED! NO HAND DRAWN ENTRIES!

I am not pleased that you took the issue this far. I tried to be diplomatic about it, and actually should not have even tried. I should have just said NO, and not bothered with it again. Your tone implies that everyone BUT myself knows what is best and what Tom wanted out of the contest.. or at a minimum that only Tom could determine what the REAL rules are... I am tired of it and more than a bit insulted. I was put in this position so that Tom would not HAVE to answer these questions directly.

manike
Actually that is not what just happened, and you know it. So your disappointment is actually moot, since it would have been caused by events that did not happen. My job here is not to answer "constructive criticism" or "personal opinions" dealing with the contest. It is to draft the rules, verify the actual rules, clarify any confusion concerning those same rules, and assist where it would not be in direct violation of the rules. I am well aware of what Tom wants, and he was the approving authority of ALL the rules... and I drafted them to fit what HE wanted. If you have a problem with it, please feel free to contact Tom directly.

On another note, thank you for your contribution of the CAD parts. I hope they help some of the contestants. Do you know of any good resources for actual photo's of parts? I know if people dig through the Mag Picture Threads, they can get some nice ones, but it would not be as handy as actual parts.

I know that even poor photos can be used for better realism than most good CAD renderings. I am VERY familiar with CAD (since I have used it and deal with others who do) and would actually prefer a standard "Graphical" 3D Modeling and Rendering Program for this type of thing, such as 3DSM or LW Modeler, etc.

I have even toyed with the idea of taking plans for each of the Mag Parts and modeling them in LW Modeler. This would allow a fully realistic anno/paint job to be applied to the actual parts, have them put together in a 3D World, and actually animate the whole process. This is a realism that just can't be reached with standard CAD software. (Of course this is a bit beyond this contest's needs. Just sharing ideas.)

Granted you would not want to design new parts with this software, but taking existing parts would be SWEET. And once ONE Mag and all its components (i.e. Air Tank, Drop Forwards, etc.) was fully modeled and skinned, you could use THAT for a HUGE amount of things. And changing part colors, anno/paint jobs, angles of parts, etc. would be a breeze. Not to mention any milling you would want to do.

Again, much of this could be done in CAD, but the things you could do WITH it after are a bit limited compared to the other software. What do you think? The best way to do this would be using the CAD plans for the Models.... sound interesting?

In all honesty, take a look at prototype pictures of cars. Most of these are hand drawn and look very good at that. Since Tom has never actually said. "No hand drawings." We can't exclude them. Just because he "implied" to use photoshop and rendering of existing photos in some computer graphics program, does not say hand drawings are not allowed. I think Tom needs to make a formal statement on hand drawings before everyone is told what he wants without him having his say.

manike
LOL No you can not do a collaborative effort.. I have a feeling you were asking in jest anyway.

And as for Alias not making photo realistic renderings... actually it can. I have used both Alias and Lightwave to make some outstanding still images out of 3D Renderings. It however takes much more work than is normally put into any such project. You can trust me on that one.

But good thing for stills, you don't NEED to have the 3D rendering software actually do all the work. You can render it as close as you can, and then use Photoshop to tweak it. This is often the best way to go for still images rendered in 3D Software. The time saved and the effects created make it the perfect marriage.

( I wonder if anyone will use any of this conversation for the contest.. )