I thumbed through the first book (can you thumb through an e-book), and was shocked. I was shocked at how...pedestrian it seemed. I expected something so over the top shocking, and it was not vanilla, but it was far from completely out there.

Stuff like this book and some of the reaction/changes in attitude towards a little light bondage and stuff like that can be compared to roller coasters. I know this might seem like something odd to compare to being spanked, tied up, or whatever, but here's why: It's the illusion of danger within the confines of safety. How many people ride roller coasters annually? How many are killed or seriously hurt? Riding roller coasters causes fewer deaths than soda machines annually (soda machines actually kill more people than sharks and lightning combined, but getting killed by a soda machine isn't sexy so it doesn't drive news casts). But when you're strapped in (safely) to that coaster and you're up at the top of that hill and the bottom drops out and you start hurtling downwards there is a rush, a lack of control, but still it is safe. That's what the 50 shades phenomenon is about. That rush or lack of control all while being totally safe.

Everyone has a line somewhere. For some people it's missionary, for some people it's a necktie to the wrists, for some people it's getting a big dump taken on you, for some people it's dressing up like Barney. Whatever trips your trigger, more power to you. I don't see the thrill in some of it, but who am I to judge what LEGAL CONSENTING ADULTS do behind closed doors. And I say this as a Republican that doesn't give a crap if you're gay, straight, black, white, etc.

I'm just going to state it like this, and if certain individuals want to keep fighting me on it, I'm just going to bow it because whatever.

Place yourself in a hypothetical room with 9 hypothetical people. Do you react to pain or pleasure sensations the exact same way as these other individuals do? Does everyone in this room like getting oral sex? Some people don't care one way or another if they receive it (and yes, men are in this group too). Some people don't like giving it but man do they ever get hard by vicariously experiencing pleasure through their partner. How about skin contact? Maybe someone really needs additional surface level blood flow to get things going. Then there's that guy standing next to you who's known that he was totally into other dudes when he was 13. Then on the other side of you is another guy who also at age 13 fantasized about being tied up by a woman in tuxedo because he has a weird Marlene Dietrich thing.

You know that the most important sex organ is in the body? I'll give you a hint. It's somewhere between the ears.

Most adults can tell the difference between happy fun time and real abuse/power tripping. It's the people who purposefully go for the latter that are messed up.

gregory311:The One True TheDavid: You think it's a good idea for women to be treated like that? You even think they should volunteer for it? Damn. If you're a woman (which I assume you are) you must be desperate; if you're a man (which can happen) you must really hate women.

Have you even read the farking book? It's pretty tame.

It's the relationship that's messed up. And the woman in that book is an infantile idiot.

People who don't understand something are criticizing it and telling people that they are wrong for engaging in it. BDSM isn't for every one but, for some people it is an extremely rewarding outlet for meeting their needs. You can't put everyone into the same box because as with everything there are varying extremes even within what most outsiders would desire to lump together as one.

There are sadists, there are masochists, there are people who absolutely need to be on one end or the other and it doesn't have much at all to do with the self-esteem they hold outside of their sexual lives.

My advice to most of you is this : If you aren't involved and don't want to be, shut up and stop criticizing. If you are involved and love it, don't expect the close-minded to accept it. If you're anywhere else, then you might have a problem. I don't endorse relationships where there are activities that aren't consensual.

WTF, fark? You used to be cool. In the old days this thread would have been full of cheesy bondage pics posted by a certain few awesome people and the dolts who are arguing that BDSM is totally normal would have been arguing over how the pics aren't real and don't properly depict the BDSM lifestyle and the dolts who are arguing that those who engage in BDSM have issues would be arguing the same thing while throwing in random comments about how any male who likes the photos of women all tied up is just an abuser waiting for a chance.

Marriage is not about sex. It can be a wonderful part of it but if your marriage depends on sex you aren't in love and you both would be better off parting. It would be a biatch to be married for twenty years only to face a health problem that ends your sex life and have your spouse dump you because all you are to them is a moist hole or a hard ride. Damn people. If for better or worse or in sickness and health means nothing to you don't get married.

Ugly fat chicks with no self respect will let you do all kinds of mean shiat to them just to get any attention at all. They'll even encourage it if you don't make them pay every time you order pizza. You learn this before you're 18 if you ever peek out from under Mom's skirt. I'd rather read Wikipedia than put up with such women, and I'll bet so would her husband.

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I'm very very serious. Why bother with a woman with no self-respect? If she's no good for herself what good can she do me?

In real life I avoid people who inspire me even to talk mean to them like I do here on Fark, and on Fark dimwits are encouraged to Ignore me.

I might have anger problems and a bad attitude but if I want a punching bag there's always the Y.

What kind of society do we have if such behavior is regarded as sexy by its victims?Susan Brownmiller might overstate the case in places but I can't say she's mistaken; indeed maybe she turned out to be a pollyanna optimist. Maybe in a few years I'll think the same of Andrea Dworkin.

Come ON, people. If I can raise my consciousness anybody can. Or do you want a society where "I only did what women really want; look at the books they read!" will get a torturing rapist acquitted?

Free advice: lose a little weight and choose less horrific "entertainments." Don't make a virtue of settling for what's easiest to get from men who can't get better.

Oh and by the way, a man who thinks he needs to tie up and whip his partner to get an erection should try Viagra or Cialis instead. If that doesn't work he should pay for prettier "escorts" or, better yet, give it up entirely. That's how evolution works in normal species: limpdick genes don't get passed on. Suck it up; it's for the best.

While it isn't great literature, and has fueled a spate of releases of the fast-follow variety, the book has served an important function. I won't exactly call it a permission slip, but its popularity has reached the point that no one can really pretend that only deviants read it or are interested in its contents.

For a long time, the pop-culture sexual landscape in the US was dominated by a more or less explicitly purtinanical ideal which told people that their urges were shameful or wrong, and led to frustration and unhappiness. In more recent times, this itwisted sexual idealogy has faced strong opposition from the third-wave feminist sexual dogma, which, in stark contrast, tells people that their urges are shameful and wrong, and leads to frustration and unhappiness. The concept that sex might not be a political or theological statement, the thought that it might, in fact, be a thing that people do with each other for their own reasons, is anathema to both, since it denies the demagogue control.

Kink exists on a spectrum, as does nearly any behavior which has human participants. If you look up, you'll see some examples of people jousting at straw men, insisting that anyone who wishes to do anything out of the 'ordinary' or 'normal' is an extreme deviant who either hates women, hates themselves, or both. People are people, and some of them will like things you don't. If you don't want to see, don't look.

Spoken for, sorry. Oh, and to the other guys up-thread, I wear in the pants in our relationship outside of the bedroom. Roles are reversed inside and that's just how we roll.

Expressing what you like to yourself and your partner is in itself an empowering thing. It's wholly feminist in its principle. When your partner, however, takes advantage of those likes and kinks you're treading in dangerous waters. Someone who ignores your safe word, or violates the boundaries you expressed before hand is not considered an attractive partner by any stretch of the imagination. On the plus side since kinky men outnumber kinky women, women with sense know they have their pick of the lot so men know better than to scare the desirable ladies away and because local communities are so tight knit, one or two ex partners bad mouthing you would shut you out for life.

50 Shades of Grey has a lot of actual BDSM folks banging their heads against the wall... especially when they encounter people who think that's what actually happens in such relationships.

It's not far off from what I expected. It was a Twilight fan-fic starting out, for one. And while there are a couple of intriguing ideas in there I'd like to take to the bedroom this book betrays the author as being someone who has no clue as to how most BDSM relationships work and is an exercise in her own fantasies. The normal/healthy ones at least.

Say what you will about that book (and boy do I have a lot of not so pleasant things to say about it) at least it was a mainstream excuse/permission slip for women to go out and explore things outside of their typical comfort zone in the bedroom.

Say what you will about that book (and boy do I have a lot of not so pleasant things to say about it) at least it was a mainstream excuse/permission slip for women to go out and explore things outside of their typical comfort zone in the bedroom.

You think it's a good idea for women to be treated like that? You even think they should volunteer for it? Damn. If you're a woman (which I assume you are) you must be desperate; if you're a man (which can happen) you must really hate women.

...Sometimes it's very obvious who is and isn't capable of finding decent porn on the internet.

/Let's just start with googling 'male submission'...//And 'BDSM negotiation', which is one of the biggest points of BDSM's 'Safe, Sane, and Consensual' deal...///Goddamnitsomuch, Fark, I am not supposed to have better porn-fu than you.

Mega Steve:fozziewazzi: I would love to have read a story from a male perspective...

"Your honor, I tried to re-ignite my sex life with my wife, but when I asked her to join me in recreating a scene from "Straight to the Ass Vol. 4", she refused. I believe this is unreasonable behavior and grounds for a divorce".

How do you think that would have gone over?

He would have been crucified by the media. Anyone who watches porn is a dirty pervert and deserves to be institutionalized.

Part of the larger societal views on sex - erotica that appeals to men is dirty and damaging. Erotica that appeals to women promotes a healthy sex life.

Oh, some people in this thread are begging for that, but not me. It's Katyamouse, Squiggy, Odd Ball and a few other freaks in this thread that you should be exchanging phone numbers with, nttawwt, Well, there is, but apparantly that's just my opinion, and I'm a big bad troll for suggesting that abuse is bad, mmkay.

Nah, you just don't seem to be able to either analogize or emphasize. Nothing wrong with that. Plenty of people have this problem.

That, and perhaps a better understanding of science and normal variations of human sexuality. That's less of a mental issue, and more of an educational issue. Nothing much wrong with that either. Plenty of people have holes in their knowledge that lead to unexamined beliefs that crash up against reality every so often. Fetishes of any sort are generally harmless. BDSM is a fetish involving two (or more) consenting adults who receive sexual satisfaction from sadomasochistic activities. That's not abuse, by any stretch of the imagination. Labeling it abuse does a disservice to those who have actually suffered abuse and provides a justification for the abusers by allowing them to rationalize their actions as consensual. I'm sure that's not your intent. Such logical fallacies as involving children or animals ignores the requirements that a party to any sexual act be able to give informed consent.

The real question is, why do you find yourself so averse to this particular fetish? I might assume, and I do hope I'm correct, that you don't have a problem with any of the more mainstream fetishes such as role-play, costumes, toys, or any of the other "tamer" fetishes. If you do have such a problem, then I have to assume that you don't understand what a healthy sexual anything is, and we can go our separate ways. However, if you don't, then why do you have a problem with this particular fetish? Is it a lack of understanding? Does it scare you? Does it remind you of personal abuse? Is it something you're interested in, but your social mores prevent you from indulging yourself so you rail against it?

Reasonable people can disagree, however, reasonable people tend to have to agree on reality, and I tend to trust the psychological professionals when it comes to what is healthy sexual fetish. After all, I doubt that anyone could find that a man who finds a woman more sexually arousing in a corset, high heels, or stockings has an abnormal fetish. The same thing can be said of healthy BDSM. So why do you have a problem?

If you didn't have the ability to explore your kink prior to being 41 and reading a shiatty novel, you can hardly blame your husband for everything. You were obviously a boring person who showed little interest in keeping your sex life alive up until that point.

Which doesn't mean you should be forced to stay married or anything, just that you ought to stand up and take equal responsibility for the lack of sexual fulfillment.

Headso:I'm personally not into bondage or any of that stuff but it's just a fetish like any other odd thing people might be into that gets them off. Does some guy jerking off to feet mean something beyond him jerking off to feet? If some chick likes to get spanked why does it have to mean something outside of just her liking to get spanked.

BDSM isn't for every one but, for some people it is an extremely rewarding outlet for meeting their needs.

Not every so-called need should be met. And if that's the only way you have of finding sexual fulfillment that's truly pathetic.

Imagine this: "Child molestation isn't for every one but, for some people it is an extremely rewarding outlet for meeting their needs."

Wouldn't you be revolted by that statement? (Please oh please say yes.)

Of course it could be said that some abused & molested children find pleasure & happiness in relationships with pedophiles, that it's really much nicer & more liberating than we'd imagine, and that people who've never tried it shouldn't judge.

Oh, wait, it is said, not only by pedophiles but by kids who put it as "But Uncle Ernie loves me! He took me to Disney World!"

Many children who've been abused and/or molested grow up to think such behavior is normal and even sexy, and many children who didn't even get that kind of attention envy the ones who got Uncle Ernie's "love."

This phenomenon is not a good thing, in spite of what "the Media" tells you to control your thinking and behavior and get rich at your expense.

KatjaMouse:And while there are a couple of intriguing ideas in there I'd like to take to the bedroom this book betrays the author as being someone who has no clue as to how most BDSM relationships work and is an exercise in her own fantasies. The normal/healthy ones at least.

So the author is not right to express her fantasies, in writing, in a fiction book, but when you express your fantasies, in real life activities, in your close knit BDSM clique, it is normal and healthy. Right.

Still waiting to hear anyone tell me what it is about their BDSM that is so good and makes their life better in any way. So far, only hearing shrill screams of outrage that I would even dare to ask the question.

Ugly fat chicks with no self respect will let you do all kinds of mean shiat to them just to get any attention at all. They'll even encourage it if you don't make them pay every time you order pizza. You learn this before you're 18 if you ever peek out from under Mom's skirt. I'd rather read Wikipedia than put up with such women, and I'll bet so would her husband.

[Not-Sure-If-Serious.jpg]

I'm very very serious. Why bother with a woman with no self-respect? If she's no good for herself what good can she do me?

In real life I avoid people who inspire me even to talk mean to them like I do here on Fark, and on Fark dimwits are encouraged to Ignore me.

I might have anger problems and a bad attitude but if I want a punching bag there's always the Y.

What kind of society do we have if such behavior is regarded as sexy by its victims? Susan Brownmiller might overstate the case in places but I can't say she's mistaken; indeed maybe she turned out to be a pollyanna optimist. Maybe in a few years I'll think the same of Andrea Dworkin.

Come ON, people. If I can raise my consciousness anybody can. Or do you want a society where "I only did what women really want; look at the books they read!" will get a torturing rapist acquitted?

Free advice: lose a little weight and choose less horrific "entertainments." Don't make a virtue of settling for what's easiest to get from men who can't get better.

Oh and by the way, a man who thinks he needs to tie up and whip his partner to get an erection should try Viagra or Cialis instead. If that doesn't work he should pay for prettier "escorts" or, better yet, give it up entirely. That's how evolution works in normal species: limpdick genes don't get passed on. Suck it up; it's for the best.

The truly sad thing is that this guy doesn't realize his own sexism. He has clearly abandoned the radical notion that women are people, and instead hews to an orthodoxy which holds that a human with a vagina is a victim by nature, and must be carefully protected from making politically wrong choices about her own body.

To trade in shame and censure in an attempt to force conformity is neither enlightened nor new, and to parrot these kinds of tenets is less a sign of a raised consciousness than of a head wedged firmly in its owner's ass. It's tired, it's boring, and it has failed in the modern culture, to the relief of all concerned.

Sex Nerd Sandra did an entertaining podcast a few months ago titled 50 Shades of Cray Cray. The guest pro-domme articulated every problem I had with that book... that I never got around to finishing because OMG what a sh*t fest.

Oznog:Is it just that once you've reached a critical mass of press attention, you're "good" no matter what the actual product is? Well no shocker there. I'm just wondering if there's any real "win" hidden in the writing itself, or if it's JUST press. I only skimmed a copy and was just "WTF???" all the way through.

Twi-Hards discovered it, women were titillated, Kindles boosted sales so you wouldn't have to explain away a book cover and that's what happened. Sort of like how Secretary became a mainstream BDSM movie (and despite how much I like that one, I have problems with the premise as well) that couples were somewhat comfortable enough to initiate a conversation about it.

Then the adult novelty stores and porn industry jumped on the bandwagon and regular clinics were suddenly full of bored housewives expecting to jump straight into Medieval style dungeons.

Ugly fat chicks with no self respect will let you do all kinds of mean shiat to them just to get any attention at all. They'll even encourage it if you don't make them pay every time you order pizza. You learn this before you're 18 if you ever peek out from under Mom's skirt. I'd rather read Wikipedia than put up with such women, and I'll bet so would her husband.

Ugly fat chicks should go ahead and become Lesbian Feminists in high school while they still have a chance of success at that. By the time you're 40 not even other ugly fat Lesbian Feminists will want you.