jdreyer wrote on Dec 12, 2011, 16:38:We can certainly argue that depictions of relationships and women could be improved in movies and games (still male-dominated industries), as evidenced by the existence of the Bechdel Test.

But back to the article. The article unfortunately falls into the trap of relying on anecdotal evidence: Person A watched porn and then committed Act B, so porn must have an overall causative effect. I remember hearing about a young couple that was having trouble conceiving. Both of them had learned everything about sex from porn, so they guy was always pulling out and his wife wasn't getting pregnant. The doctor had to actually instruct them to not pull out. Does this mean that porn causes infertility?

We need to look at statistical data in making any determinations of porn (or games) on behavior of the population as a whole. There is a strong correlation between access to online porn and reduction of rape rates (Slate article on the paper here). It appears that video game playing has a similar effect on violent crime. Obviously both of these could use more research, but the initial studies appear to be on the mark.

And of course it goes without saying that you should monitor your computers so that young children don't access porn. Parental responsibility, etc. etc.

That, sir/madam, is an excellent post.

Anecdotal evidence and causation fallacy (my one quibble with your post; these are different things) are awful, awful things that result in too many terrible policy decisions.

I'd never heard of the Bechdel test, that's pretty terrible too.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

I was under no illusions when I first watched porn. When thinking about this, I've come to realise that I really don't know very much about porn, mainstream porn in particular (which makes me sound like a very weird porn hipster, which I'm not). The plastic boobs plastic face plastic smile look that studios like Vivid produce is too fake for me to watch enough to think about how degrading it is.

Ruffiana wrote on Dec 12, 2011, 14:50:I think to a child it is. Hell, some adults don't realize how much artifice and fantasy is involved in pornography and blunder about through life thinking all women are bisexual nymphos who get off on being degraded.

Even mainstream movies tend to over-fantasize sexuality and human relationships and that stuff is much harder to pick out as being as imaginary and made-up as the decapitations and special-effects monsters.

We can certainly argue that depictions of relationships and women could be improved in movies and games (still male-dominated industries), as evidenced by the existence of the Bechdel Test.

But back to the article. The article unfortunately falls into the trap of relying on anecdotal evidence: Person A watched porn and then committed Act B, so porn must have an overall causative effect. I remember hearing about a young couple that was having trouble conceiving. Both of them had learned everything about sex from porn, so they guy was always pulling out and his wife wasn't getting pregnant. The doctor had to actually instruct them to not pull out. Does this mean that porn causes infertility?

We need to look at statistical data in making any determinations of porn (or games) on behavior of the population as a whole. There is a strong correlation between access to online porn and reduction of rape rates (Slate article on the paper here). It appears that video game playing has a similar effect on violent crime. Obviously both of these could use more research, but the initial studies appear to be on the mark.

And of course it goes without saying that you should monitor your computers so that young children don't access porn. Parental responsibility, etc. etc.

If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient

"pornography is presented as a realistic representation of human sexuality" I can see what you mean. Of course pornography is presented as actors in faky fantasy scenarios, but even in that context the actors/actresses completely hide any semblance of reality.

I can imagine an impressionable viewer (or person who hasn't experienced sex) beginning to believe that's what sex will be like in a real relationship. And it's not going to ever be discussed with parents because it's taboo, and a lot of pornography out there continue to thrive on taboos.

That's what makes "behind the scenes" footage/documentaries so fascinating to me, because you get a sobering glimpse of the reality behind it all. But even then, often they still seem to be "in character". (And a random observation: A lot of people in the porn industry are quite troubled.)

Quboid wrote on Dec 12, 2011, 15:07:My parents never had any "you know this stuff isn't real" chat with me with computer games.

But you probably weren't playing video games in secrecy without your parent's knowledge. I can't speak for your parents, but I know what my kids play and watch (at least for now) and I have a pretty clear sense that they understand the difference between fantasy and reality for those particular things. They're still young, but I plan to one day sit them down and explain pornography and real sex to them because I want them to be absolutely clear on the difference between them.

Anyway, porn isn't degrading. Degrading porn is degrading, but that can be applied to pretty much anything.

The vast majority of professionally produced porn is degrading to some degree, and I think it's a testamant to how deceptive it can be that you don't see that.

Don't mistake what I'm saying for being in agreement with the article.

pornography is presented as a realistic representation of human sexuality

que

no it isn't

Porn in general could be of much higher quality though. Something that isn't demeaning to the men and women involved, because lets face it, the men don't look too great either.

I think to a child it is. Hell, some adults don't realize how much artifice and fantasy is involved in pornography and blunder about through life thinking all women are bisexual nymphos who get off on being degraded.

Even mainstream movies tend to over-fantasize sexuality and human relationships and that stuff is much harder to pick out as being as imaginary and made-up as the decapitations and special-effects monsters.

Normally, I don't buy into the whole myth of media causing behavior...however, in the case of pornography, I do make something of an exception. Unlike film, books, comics, games, etc...pornography is presented as a realistic representation of human sexuality. Further, the subject of sex and pornography is taboo in our culture, so while you might be able to talk to you child about how "you know video games are make-believe, right?" people don't tend to have those same conversations with children about porn.

Even mainstream movies do a pretty shoddy job of presenting normal, healthy sexual relationships...full-blown pornography tends to be incredibly demeaning of women and degrade them as purely sexual objects. It celebrates promiscuity and casual sex without mention of the very real emotional baggage or health risks associated with that kind of behavior. Kids secret this stuff out, see porn, don't talk to their parents about what they've seen, and grow up thinking that his must be what sex is really all about. And there's some pretty messed up shit out there that's as easy to find as anything else.

Do I believe porn or "dirty" video games cause rape? No, that's a pretty ludicrous conclussion to draw...but I do believe it fuels inherent sexual urges and can lead to higher instances of sexual experimentation for kids who are not mentally or emotionally prepared for it.