I don't really like building my world view from an unreality (not saying that I'm an empiricist/positivist either though).

Progression and self-realisation begins by disregarding unreals and the irrelevant (drug based hallucinations, seeking out God, believing in UFOs etc), not using them as a foundation.

Are you implying that your current reality paradigm does possess a foundation 100% impeccable in its logical conclusiveness? If not, then on what basis do you submit that drug use is incompatible with the spiritual realization of such a foundation?

No, I'm saying that you are introducing unneeded error into the equation by basing your worldview on religious/drug altered experiences which are irrelevant to reality.

But isn't the whole existential dilemma that without an infallible foundation to work with then any reasoning can only be a matter of induction rather than deduction, and thus thoughts and actions made without such foundation are all equally invalid? It seems to me that at issue should be a process of deconstruction, to discover an infallible foundation if any exists, and that sighting scarecrows along the way is still only an inductive affirmation, a knee-jerk reaction to slow down the whole frightening process of propulsion into the Abyss, a fear of the unknown. Ironically certain drugs are uniquely suited to propel you towards the Abyss, bypassing your trepidations whether you like it or not (although personally I would not count marijuana among such drugs).

Well, although I am personally not a fan of dream interpretation for the purposes of my own evolution I do believe it is a legitimate (though chronically butchered) process, so I should point out that last time I checked, yes, inspecting certain characteristics of one's stool is a recognized health practice.

I don't really like building my world view from an unreality (not saying that I'm an empiricist/positivist either though).

Progression and self-realisation begins by disregarding unreals and the irrelevant (drug based hallucinations, seeking out God, believing in UFOs etc), not using them as a foundation.

Are you implying that your current reality paradigm does possess a foundation 100% impeccable in its logical conclusiveness? If not, then on what basis do you submit that drug use is incompatible with the spiritual realization of such a foundation?

No, I'm saying that you are introducing unneeded error into the equation by basing your worldview on religious/drug altered experiences which are irrelevant to reality.

But isn't the whole existential dilemma that without an infallible foundation to work with then any reasoning can only be a matter of induction rather than deduction, and thus thoughts and actions made without such foundation are all equally invalid? It seems to me that at issue should be a process of deconstruction, to discover an infallible foundation if any exists, and that sighting scarecrows along the way is still only an inductive affirmation, a knee-jerk reaction to slow down the whole frightening process of propulsion into the Abyss, a fear of the unknown. Ironically certain drugs are uniquely suited to propel you towards the Abyss, bypassing your trepidations whether you like it or not (although personally I would not count marijuana among such drugs).

Again, you're adding magical properties to drugs which I really doubt exist. What exactly are you heading towards other than incoherence? What drugs are you talking about? Why aren't the hippies of the 60s writing great books and producing wonderful music?

If you don't know how dreams can be messages, just pay attention to them during one week. They're not just disconnected fragments of waste, they sometimes tell whole stories. Why are'nt dreams then, just a sequence of disconnected images? I've had dreams easily interpreted by myself, not by freud's method (never read it). And not creating meaning out of absurd dream things, because the dream was with very real, important concepts and elements to my life. For example, I often dreamt of beating up real hard some people. I got the conclusion I have repressed feelings of anger towards them (I really had). That's just one kind of message, just an example, there are endless possibilities.

As one said, I don't think you can get the nutrients back from your stool (great word), but it certainly is common having it analyzed.

For the message above: That is terrible. Saying pot does not enhance thoughts/creativity because of hippies? You know that's fallacious. Did you know A LOT of extreme metal was composed on weed? I think you do. Some of the best, even. Kraftwerk took acid, etc. I know someone can say, that was a experiment with drugs that had nothing to do with the artist's work. Well, that's debatable... but in the case of metal, cannabis is very relevant, even to the creation of some major works...

About the video, after a while I don't understand it either. But on the beggining he says: Herb. Herb is a plant. Herb is good for everything. Why the people who want to do "good", say for you not to smoke herb? The people from so called goverments... They say it make you rebel. Against what? (...)

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Some people say one of the reasons herb is discouraged by governments is because it makes people think too much. I used to think that was not true. But coming to think about it, it might be true. Certainly it's better for the government to have its people drunk than stoned... Janis Joplin liked to use alcohol and heroine, she has used cannabis and mushrooms, but she said they made her think too much, and her deal was to forget.

For the message above: That is terrible. Saying pot does not enhance thoughts/creativity because of hippies? You know that's fallacious. Did you know A LOT of extreme metal was composed on weed? I think you do. Some of the best, even. Kraftwerk took acid, etc. I know someone can say, that was a experiment with drugs that had nothing to do with the artist's work. Well, that's debatable... but in the case of metal, cannabis is very relevant, even to the creation of some major works...

Really? Because from what I've gathered, drug use was absent in early 90s black metal.

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About the video, after a while I don't understand it either. But on the beggining he says: Herb. Herb is a plant. Herb is good for everything. Why the people who want to do "good", say for you not to smoke herb? The people from so called goverments... They say it make you rebel. Against what? (...)

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Some people say one of the reasons herb is discouraged by governments is because it makes people think too much. I used to think that was not true. But coming to think about it, it might be true. Certainly it's better for the government to have its people drunk than stoned... Janis Joplin liked to use alcohol and heroine, she has used cannabis and mushrooms, but she said they made her think too much, and her deal was to forget.

It was actually amusing reading Bob Marley's wikipedia page today, because it has how he rejected mainstream medical care for his cancer in favour of "alternative" treatment and died as a result. It's funny when someone dies due to their own idiocy. It's in a similar paranoid vein to his claiming that the government banned marijuana because it causes people to "think too much" or "rebel". Why don't governments ban Universities then? What about books? Ever seen how many Marxists/socialists there are in a humanities class at college/university level? Why isn't Marx banned?

Here's more likely factors:1. It's another health hazard which they don't want to add to the burdens already made by alcohol and tobacco (Yes, cannabis causes lung cancer like cigarettes).2. It risks work productivity (you're not going to work if you're stoned).3. It doesn't have the historical level of social and political acceptance that alcohol/tobacco has.

Why aren't the hippies of the 60s writing great books and producing wonderful music?

Indeed, or the stoners from the 1980s in charge of the world? And why did we have so few names for our "Hessians who have also succeeded in life" thread?

Drugs and alcohol, sex and buying shiny products, and so on, are distractions. The real game is to get your head clear, find a path in life and something you like doing, and excel at it.

Drugs are like a warm bath. If life is too hard, you soak in the bath. But then life seems even colder, so you stay. Eventually, a day passes... and then another.

Why do we see so few drug users succeed in anything but entertainment?

As in politics, where measuring the success of a structural change takes centuries or longer, in life measuring the success of a habit takes a lifetime or longer. The proof is out there: drugs, alcohol and casual sex are pathways to failure.

Not surprisingly, they're very popular with the peasants and urban drones. Are you man, or slave-man? Go pick me some cotton, stoners!

Stars down to earth: Bob Marley died because the treatment for his illness was to remove his toe, and that was prohibited by his rastafarian religion (they prohibit amputation of any parts of the body). So he refused to cut it even knowing that he might die.

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I'm sure the way of life you described is great, but hot baths, sex, alcohol and other distractions happen in everybody's life. To be productive does not mean to be a saint. In fact, I encourage all to, when not working, studying or doing other things, to enjoy having safe sex.

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Not surprisingly, they're very popular with the peasants and urban drones. Are you man, or slave-man? Go pick me some cotton, stoners!

Surprisingly I happen know people who smoke cannabis and are succesfull business man, lawyers, etc. I think you do too. It's likely that a weed smoking person can pay a non-smoking one to pick up cotton for him. Or to pick whatever he wants up.

Stars down to earth: Bob Marley died because the treatment for his illness was to remove his toe, and that was prohibited by his rastafarian religion (they prohibit amputation of any parts of the body). So he refused to cut it even knowing that he might die.

Stars down to earth: Bob Marley died because the treatment for his illness was to remove his toe, and that was prohibited by his rastafarian religion (they prohibit amputation of any parts of the body). So he refused to cut it even knowing that he might die.

So he still died due to his own cannabis induced idiocy? Excellent.

No, he died because his religion says that it is not OK to live as an amputee. He knew he was probably going to die.

Being dogmatic in favor of drugs is as stupid as being dogmatic against drugs.

I'll make the point again. I am an infrequent user of cannabis, yet I have a steady part time job, attend university (with a 3.3 GPA at the moment), work out/exercise 3 or 4 times a week, read good books, listen to inspiring music, cook, play bass and guitar, and am constantly wanting to learn (and learning) new things.

Not saying every person who uses has to be like me, but there are not just non users and handjob-giving drug addicts; you can't split people up into those categories so easily.

Proclaim me a loser/moron/faggot for using marijuana if you must, I will take no heed as I continue down my path in life.

Pot can clear your mind. In a functional human being, this can be a great experience. Most people are dysfunctional; drugs and alcohol are to these a crutch.

That being said, I've never met a human being who smokes on a daily (or even weekly) basis and manages to have a coherent view of the world. The comparisons to Christianity are apt: Marijuana use, especially in a social setting, is akin to organized religion. Putting faith in the transcendental powers of anything is dangerous.

Being high can be mystifying, but this is because you are no longer completely processing your surroundings. This has all been covered here.

Deadite, I agree. There are various levels of awareness as to how the drug affects us. Those who want to be high all the time... they tend toward the unaware. But is this any worse than the effects of television, or loafing around on the internet all day? Pot addicts, TV addicts, those who drown their loneliness in continual socializing... all of these people are, indeed, depressed for the majority of their sober lives. And none of them can think coherently.