Grrl Power #185 – Our chief weapon is fear. Fear and surprise!

This is definitely one of those pages that would benefit from just being able to turn the page or hit the next comic button right away. As soon as most people read Maxima’s examples they’ll start thinking of their own counter examples, which is of course what the next page is.

I’m going to keep this comment short as I strained my back a little.* I’ll be fine but I’m a little tired from the muscle relaxer I took right as I’m writing this. I’ll update the vote incentive later today with something.

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*by lifting over 2000 pounds! Granted that was spread out over lots of reps, but it sounds much more impressive when added up.

Discussion (386) ¬

The problem with Max’s strategy here is that it fails to take into account basic human psychology. Nowhere near enough people are going to actually go “well I for one accept our new mutant overlords” for that to be the political will of *any* country, let alone the US.

This situation devolves very quickly into people judging that Max can’t do much about passive resistance. And honestly, she can’t, unless she resorts to a completely unacceptable amount of force against relative innocents. Calling her an optimist is a tremendous understatement. She’s downright naive.

Firstly what are you proposing that people intend to passively resist? Their right to become evil overlords? Because all Maxima has done is threaten anybody who intends to use super powers to further a career as a villain. Nothing she did, or said, implied that normal, law abiding, citizens’ rights or freedoms would be impinged in any way.

Secondly, if they are being passive, whatever their reasons, then they are behaving in a law abiding fashion, and will get on fabulously well with Maxima. Getting people to behave in a peaceful way would be a win.

at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what Max said. Fact of human psychology – everybody hates the hegemon, not for their intents or their actions, but simply for their existence and the fact that nobody can stand up to them. Some will pretend not to recognize the fact; some will “suck up” to him/her/it in sycophantic fashion as a matter of self-preservation; some will even buck up and act respectfully but hold their ground; but deep inside they will fear, and hate.

I don’t think Maxima wants to do anything about the Passive Resistance. Or even the legal active resistance. Despite what it seems like at times, free speech is in fact still a fundamental right that we all enjoy. Maxima isn’t going to mess with any of that. She may try to put some fear in a few of them but she probably won’t do anything to actively stop them.

Let them talk, let them cry foul, let them howl as if they’re going to war as long as they don’t. There’s bigger concerns out there than some blue collar guy upset about so much power in someone else’s hands.

What Maxima has done will likely result in a political backlash that’ll make life more difficult for people born with special powers. Registration, for one, and if you’re “perceived” as a threat, who knows what they’ll do to you?

Halo’s wild dissection fantasy is an extreme response, but there are other really horrible things that may result. The government has locked up law-abiding citizens before, or removed their right to reproduce, in the past.

In the show Heroes they started locking up and even murdering special people.

It is possible, I will grant that. It’s just as likely it would happen anyway. People fear what’s different to them. All animals do in fact. Baby chicks will peck another chick to death that was born with an unfortunate black spot in it’s down. Humans will attack anything different from itself, that’s the way things are.

I was unusually tall and muscular as a kid, smaller kids would attack me and destroy my self-image because I was different than them. No giant person had gone on screen and promised painful death to criminals, they just had it in their head to do it.

Any supers showing powers would have been risking assault and ridicule regardless to any political backlash Maxima garners with that display anyway.

You completely ignored the fact that Maxima did a bad thing. “It was going to happen anyway.” Maxima’s destructive show of force was a deliberate fear-based, power-based spectacle. It wasn’t used to make people feel safe, she did it because she wants people to fear her.

And if people fear her, they’ll continue to fear not only people who are different from them, but they’ll fear authority.

Why do you think police officers speak at elementary schools? Because children should be taught at a young age that police officers are approachable protectors.

I work in mental health, and I know if I went in and tried to intimidate one of my clients, it would be considered a form of abuse. Where I stand, Maxima abused her power, but she’s not the one who’s going to suffer because of it. It’ll be common folk that will.

I remember seeing one of those scared straight type documentaries where they had an Air Force pilot talk to a bunch of gang bangers. He talked about how they felt tough because they could go shoot up a neighborhood while he (the pilot) had the ability to completely flatten a city block.

Same concept. The problem is, there’s no way to directly address only ‘the bad guys’. If you could narrow it down to just them, then you could just go ahead and arrest/detain/jail them outright. Since there is no way to directly address them, Max used the shotgun effect to do it.

Non-criminal people are unfortunately going to get caught in the peripheral of the ‘blast’, but the main load is directly aimed at the bad guys.

Is what she did really any different than what the USA did when they dropped the atomic bombs on Japan? Granted, all the other countries ramped up and became nuclear capable powers, but now nobody is willing to use them for fear of mutual destruction.

To use a great quote, “When two tigers clash, one will die and the other will be maimed.” Max was just showing that she’s one of those tigers.

So far, the only ones who view what Maxi did as wrong is Ari (no surprise there) and that Senator

We have no way of knowing whether Maxi had the go-ahead from Faulke or not (why would Ari know she had the okay? she is only the PR lady, not in the military chain-of-command within ARCHON, or anywhere else for that matter)

Oh, I did not. I’ve repeatedly called her out on it in past strips. That her behavior is throwing the gauntlet and people will do stuff to get at her in retaliation. I just chose not to beat the dead horse this time.

Yes, I can see this scenario playing out. But I also see the opposite happening. There is always some asshole that won’t act until they see a challenge, and defeating Maxima is going to draw out the powered crazies.

Unfortunately, that’s also insanely naive. Many Supers that are “looking for a challenge” also don’t care about civilian lives. In fact, they may just take hostages to force Max into ACCEPTING the “challenge” on terms that are wildly DIS-advantageous to her, and then, regardless of the outcome, kill, or try to kill said hostages.Or worse, they may, like the Joker, go on insane killing sprees just to “call Max out.”

That is why Max has made it clear all they have to do is say “bring it on”. She is not hiding or shy. If they want to get their arses handed to them on a plate, she is happy to be the waitress. Contrast that to folks who just like to have a massacre before breakfast. They really do not need an excuse to do what they love to do. Are you sure you really want to try the touchy-feely approach with them?

Maybe send in Aarianna with a megaphone saying “we want you to get in touch with your inner feelings, but please could you stop using the heads of pre-schoolers to bowl with”. Perhaps wait until after the first week of atrocities before sending in Max? Just to ensure that no claim of police brutality or a repressive regime could be made.

That reminds me – supers, too, want a nice home and tasty food, right? So they need money. That’s often left aside, I rember only 2 cases where a super was job-less (and not rich and had not got rid of the money problem by some other means).

After revealing your identity to the public, why not getting paid for using your powers to make certain jobs easier or faster or safer than a normal human or a bunch of them? Or even possible to get done in the first place. Construction could be a high opportunity for both sides, and it would make a counter-point against the tendency to see supers as destroyers and only that.

Point. Even the most destructive powers could find some constructive use: Singularity Guy could do demo on old hotels, save on explosives; the Disintegrator could do waste disposal; Nuclear Explosion Man can power a (specially-built) reactor. Sometimes you have to get creative, but the possibilities exist. Even if your power is basically “beat people up,” there’s Archon.

I’ve actually talked about this in earlier strips. When finding out someone has super powers, the best thing they can do when they master said powers is hire an agent. There is endless jobs available to someone with powers, and a super never needs to go hungry. Simple laws of supply and demand, when you’re one of the rare suppliers, you can demand anything. However, you need someone protecting your best interests besides yourself and an agent could do that.

tl;dr (Oh how I hate that acronym), Every super should become a millionare if they do it right. And if they’re not interested in money, imagine the good giving all that money to charity can do.

I have always despaired how people (especialy leaders) in the x-men, heroes, gen-13,ect. worlds never seem to grasp how usefull having a happily paid super doing certain jobs would be think about how certain powers like flight or invulnerability for firemen, rescue workers and the like. think how epic the guy with super strength would be on a loading dock or mining or as a lumberjack. A telepath or empath could be the best psycologist or therapist on the planet, its only fear that makes us the beasts we are in such comics. Sydney would make a great everymans mascot for disuading such fear though.

I wouldn’t be a good example. I admit, with super powers, I would be using them in every hairbrained semi-legal scheme possible to make as much money as possible for as little work as possible. And some illegal schemes. I would show up on the Archon radar five minutes before they manifested.

I would still have an agent and deal with accountability, but I would probably be an argument against using powers for profit. I just never learned With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility. I in fact, reject it whole heartedly. A well paying job and entertainment would probably be the only way to keep me under wraps and even then I would get a healthy dose of curiosity going.

there is also the intelligent villein the one that will watch the video they recorded of this press release and gauge how powerful they are then spy on the team to gather more info before truly attacking. the truly powerful still follow the saying ” know your enemy and know your self only then will you be great”

I see a lot of comments within the view point of Max’s actions inside the U.S.A.’s sphere of influence. what about other nations? russia, china, the EU (if these nations exists as they do in real life in this setting), and others will see Max and Archon as a new global threat. Cue a new arms race/ super recruitment/ cold war. Even terrorists who don’t care if they die fighting, or worse, think they will get rewarded for killing infidels, be it normal humans or supers. Max is a good enough fighter, but she is a poor PR person and worse diplomat.

Arms races will happen regardless of what rhetoric was chosen for this press-conference. And, judging by Maxima’s earlier career being up against enemy supers, has already been happening covertly anyhow.

What she has done is no more, in principle, than what nations have done since time immemorial. Parade their shiny new weapons for the public and their enemies to see. And put on a showy demonstration to drive the point home that their nation has the capability to protect it’s public.

What other nations do in response to that is really their own concern. Provided they do not demonstrate aggressive intentions.

With the emergence of supers, one thing I am pretty dang sure of is that various nations, groups and interests are ALREADY trying to leverage this to their own benefit. Either by recruiting or otherwise acquiring their own supers; or by developing their own procedures, policies and/or dogmas to deal with the phenomenon.

Arms race? This has already been going on, of that I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever. All Max has done is bring it out in the open.

Exactly as Arianna explained in the press conference, the US is working on a treaty to ban the use of supers in war situations. Kinda like how they banned mustard gas.
So yes, they are aware of the potential and are already working to stop it

There’s been a bit of disagreement about possible responses to Max’s demonstration. I think the actual fallout will be a few very vocal anti-super leaders, a disgruntled Senate-oversight-committee chairman (who just barked at Ari), and a reassuring speech by some politician/general about “faith in our armed forces”, “years of service to her country”, & “oath of service.” I think some folks have overlooked the fact that, given her rank, Maxima has been in the millitary for a significant percentage of her life, & they don’t give out silver leaves to people they don’t trust. That said, there are going to be those who react with fear, loathing, &/or demands for various levels of “control” of the [insert insulting epithet here].

Just noticed your new vote incentive. Artistically talented people blow my mind every time. I’ve watched streams of artists working, and even watching it from start to end, I have no idea how they do it. But I still find it very interesting.

It’s not pre-determined. Arianna was on the phone with a senator. Maxima didn’t think through her actions, and now there’s likely some legislation that will occur that’ll make life difficult for people born “special.”

If the US government in Grrlpowercomic’s universe is anything like the one in ours, I am highly dubious that any legislation brought forward would actually pass, particularly since the very same people would be involved that decided to “out” ARC in the first place.

I’m pretty sure Max did think through her actions. A strong show of force to any and all enemies has been a long standing tradition in the military. If you think about it, she’s not much different that an advanced fighter jet ( high speed, extremely maneuverable jet with large payload) that can drop nuclear ordinance that can turn into a tank when needed.

Since she’s been in the military a good percentage of her life, it wouldn’t be hard to imagine that higher ups already suspected with high probability what Max would do in that circumstance, given past experience. So I would suspect that either Ari is partially acting for the benefit of Max because the higher ups told her how Max would react, or Max knew full well what she was going to do ahead of time and had the blessing of the higher ups to do it without Ari’s knowledge.

The likelihood that neither had forethought about what was going to happen and possible repercussions is highly unlikely. One or the other knew what was going to happen.

Perhaps she is acting to force Arianna down a primrose path, but it’s a path that includes a certain degree of restraint, as well. Let’s face it–however good or bad Max might be, there will always be a certain degree of temptation to just unleash hell, and damn the collateral damage. While Max might, currently, be willing to resist that temptation, SOMEBODY will eventually come along and try to break that resistance. Among other things, people need to feel re-assured, ahead of time, that doing so will bring consequences for Max.

Really and truly, the point of this exercise isn’t to make crooks too terrified to attack–there are always psychopaths who are not going to be deterred by any threat, just because they’re bloody nuts. The point is to make sure that vigilante superheros don’t arise, and that super-hero justice follows a set, legal process, just like normal law. Max and Arianna’s opinion on how the results will play out might be different, but the point is already established: supers fall under normal law, and there are no supers so powerful that they cannot be made to comply. That’s the key point–the rest is just window dressing, and Max’s display drove the main point home nicely. Much more nicely, in truth, than Arianna’s display could have.

Uhhh while Maxima has a positive idea of WHAT will happen, my question is WHAT if the exact opposite happens and they consider it a challenge to take her ego down a peg or two? I mean yeah she is impressive but there will always be someone stronger that will take her on and take her down.

Well…
Maxima is one of the strongest supers in the world. She’s backed up by a magic using, martial artist, tech guru alian/demon who is about as strong as her.
Than we have Sydney, and quite afew of other very powerfull super powers.
There is an estimated total of 7-10 thousand supers. America is estimated to have 500.

Archon has a 11 supers that we know off.

So know, it would be extremely difficult to get a group tougether that can truely challange Archon

So, I was explaining this comic to a friend at college this morning, and when I got to the bit about being able to level up abilities, he says, ‘kinda like that manga The Gamer?’
Lost several hours enjoying that, and wanted to share, so here ya go. :)

I’m on Max’s side all the way here. There are those that DO, and those that TALK about doing and nothing ever gets done. There’s been numerous studies that people actually adapt to a radical change faster than to incremental, gentler changes.

Supers are now a known fact to the world, even though I’d wager governments knew about them since they first appeared. The `common man’ was pretty much kept in the dark and fed lots of BS about swamp gas reflecting off a weather balloon causing mass hysteria.

Their existence could be confirmed in essentially one of two ways: with a big splash or by small easy to digest bits. They made their plans and we see our Big Splash, courtesy of Max. That gives them time to finalize and tweak the programs. Government dweebs can assure everyone “We’re forming a commission,” and “If you like your current level of security, you can keep your current level of security!”

And all the time, the common man is getting used to the idea of supers; along with the idea that the baddest of the babes is on OUR team.

A parallel example, for those of you older than my shoes: remember SWAT? Back in the 70s, cop show, mysterious and these guys were COOL and it’s pretty awesome! The regular citizen never saw a SWAT team, didn’t know anything about them except for the TV show. But we got used to the idea because hey, if anything bad happened, you’d WANT a SWAT team and it was kinda nice to know they were there.

Now SWAT rolls for traffic tickets, pretty much.

Everyone forgets that all government is based on the use of force, or the threat thereof. ALL government. Marvel’s Civil War and the worries on this board about laws and such…you know, how exactly is the old-style government going to enforce anything on the new-style supers? What if Max, for example, doesn’t WANT to wear a seat belt, or appear at court for a traffic ticket? The common man doesn’t have the luxury she does…she has the ability to resist the force that government can bring to bear on her. So whine and cry all they want, the government NEEDS Max to be Max…because if she decides not to play their game, they lose.

And lastly: you can never prove a negative. There will never be a way to measure how many people Max’s actions saved by causing a would-be super villain to change their mind and go back to construction. It will be extremely easy to see how many rise to her challenge and commit atrocities, forcing them into conflict with her and ARCHON. The only way for Max to prove it is to give it a test period of say, six months, take all of Ari’s crap and the government’s whining, then say, “Fine, I quit.” Call a huge press conference, let it be known she’s no longer a deterrent and is headed off to Jupiter to study the moons there. See what the super villains get up to when they don’t have her to worry about.

Me, I bet on Max being proved more correct. And I hope she takes Sydney with her, since they have a really good vibe together.

The prevalence of SWAT teams is not necessarily a good thing, as it can be seen as symptomatic of a society in a worsening spiral of using violence to control violence.

“Everyone forgets that all government is based on the use of force, or the threat thereof. ALL government.”

I have never heard of the Tibetan monasteries using force to govern Tibet. Perhaps something that they regretted once the Chinese tanks came over their borders. But prior to violence being used against them, they seemed to have a successful government based on something other than force. Unless you have a very different definition of ‘force’ to the one that springs to mind.

The last two paragraphs seem quite reasonable. If Maxima is pushed too far. Hopefully she would have the strength of character to rise above petty complaints, though. Rather than use the suffering of the general public to make a point.

There has been a lot of discussion about the reactions of the general populace, government, supers, etc. Allow me to put my two cents in, for I know exactly the reactions that will occur.

ALL OF THEM.

Every possible reaction that you (and I) can think of, and many that we can’t think of, will happen somewhere. Everything across the Love-Hate scale. Everything across the Fear-Trust scale. Most likely in a standard distribution (bell) curve, with only a few people at the most extreme ends and most people hovering in the middle somewhere.

So, there will be fan groups. There will be hate groups. There will be groups that consider the supers to be the new gods and worship them. There will be some that consider the supers to be the new dark gods, come to destroy the wicked world and lead them to an afterlife of paradise, and so they worship and support them, There will be some that consider the supers to be the new dark gods come to destroy the world, so they actively work against them in the hopes of saving the world. (Woundn’t it be fun if the worshipers had someone whose prayers of support to the supers, or a super – like their chosen patron diety, actually did boost the super’s power or good luck, because that worshiper was actually, unknown even to him/herself, a super as well? Or the opposite: a group that opposes the “dark gods” and performs ritual curses against the supers had one that actually, unknown to all, had the ability to decrease the power or increase the bad luck of the person he/she was focused on.)

There will be those that dis-trust supers extremely and dream up wild conspiracy theories. There will be those that over-trust the supers, believing them incapable of doing wrong. There will be those that will want to control and use the supers. There will be those that will become hermits to try to avoid the supers. There will those that will be jealous of the supers. There will be those that don’t care. There will be riots, as super-supporters clash with super-protesters.

Every possible attitude and opinion people have about governments, police, the military, tyrants, WMDs, guns, aliens, gods, murderers, hollywood stars, priests, other nationalities and races, and genetic anomalies will be applied to/against the supers. Even by the supers themselves.

Some supers will see themselves as gods. Others as just an average joe with extra ability. The supers themselves will have every mental, emotional, and spiritual condition as all the normals. Some will be insane. Some will be obsessive. Depressed, ADHD, manic, delusional, egotistic, withdrawn, etc. Sociopathic/psychopathic. They are still human, with all the faults of humans. There will be extremist supers. Of extremist religeous sects and other extremist groups.

Some supers will have a personal sense of justice and morals that do not perfectly align with commonly held views. So, they will behave in a way that seems to match the values of the government, police, military, or populace, until the super believes that one of those has violated his/her personal views on justice, or right-ness. Then they will attack whole-heartedly what they view as the unjust/wrong government, military, general populace, etc; appearing to betray what they seemed to believe in and support. They are being consistent with themselves, not with any outside applied values or pressures.

There is evidence for this in the comments for this comic. No one here completely agrees with each other. Each person has a different viewpoint, a different opinion. The widely varying reactions of the commenters here mirrors the widely varying reactions that the people in the comic will have.

Key here is the reactions of the people in positions of power, like the government. Where do they fall in the Fear-Trust continuum? Where do they fall in the Love-Hate range? Are they trying to manipulate and control the supers? Are they trying to work with the supers? I propose that the powerful people will fall into all the possibilities that I’ve already outlined. Remember, too, that supers are all in positions of power as well. Their very existence influences people.

All the reactions that I’ve described will happen. All the reactions that I haven’t described or thought of will happen too. Such is the human condition.

My opinion: Maxima hopes that her actions have pushed the bell curve more towards Fear for the villianously-inclined supers. Arianna fears that Maxima’s actions have pushed the bell curve more towards Fear for the government and the general populace.

Are we also forgetting the fact that I can’t imagine one single case where a company, military, government, etc. decided to wake up one day and go, “Hey, I think we’re going to do a press release today!”

Instead, it’s always going to be a case of, the more important the news, the longer they take to plan the press release. If Ari is as good of a media specialist as is being implied, she would have worked weeks, if not months, working out what was going to be said and done. With all that time and planning, like I mentioned in an earlier post, they would have had a really good idea what Max would do in that circumstance. Heck, Ari probably purposely wound Max up by not telling her about the bank robbery with the intent of riling Max up enough to go overboard at the demonstration while still having plausible deniability in the off chance that it went south.

I should have added that some people will see supers, not as gods, but as angels/demons/avatars of God or Satan, and will treat them accordingly. Some supers will also see themselves as avatars of God and that God agrees with their viewpoint, since God gave them these awesome powers, therefore they have license to do as they please.

Also, some will worship the supers as dark gods that must be appeased to avoid their destructive wrath.

I can see two scenarios that seem humorous to me:

In the first one, the Church of Halo (those that worship Halo as a benevolent god) and the Cult of Halo ( those that worship Halo as a dark god who must destroy this wicked world) encounter each other at a pro – super rally. Mayhem ensues. Both believe that every word out of Halo’s mouth is a commandment, but to very opposite ends.

The second scenario goes like this:

Maxima arrives at a small village.
Village Leader: “Oh great god of Chaos and Destruction! We beseech you to have mercy on our humble village! Please stay your wrath and accept this sacrifice on our behalf! ” [Pushes a young virgin girl into Maxima’s arms.]
Maxima: “What am I supposed to do with this?!”

[quote]In the first one, the Church of Halo (those that worship Halo as a benevolent god) and the Cult of Halo ( those that worship Halo as a dark god who must destroy this wicked world) encounter each other at a pro – super rally. Mayhem ensues. Both believe that every word out of Halo’s mouth is a commandment, but to very opposite ends.[/quote]

Weird as that might sound, more than one eastern religion has deities which have both good and evil aspects. Being both the god of destruction and a beneficent god, for example. And the worshippers often accept the whole package, rather than just having to choose one or the other.

IF I was a worshiper of Halo, I would consider the supers as a pantheon of individuals: some good, some evil, some indifferent. To me, Halo would be the embodiment of Chaos and Random Chance. The talisman I would carry to invoke her presence would be a d20.

First off, excellent analysis. Well thought out and highly credible. One part caught my attention beyond that:

“Woundn’t it be fun if the worshipers had someone whose prayers of support to the supers, or a super – like their chosen patron diety, actually did boost the super’s power or good luck, because that worshiper was actually, unknown even to him/herself, a super as well? “

Interesting enough. But what if, in a similar fashion, there was a super who could grant powers to others, but for some, perhaps psychological reason, could only do so to those who worshipped him/her.

It would be great fun to see what theologians would do confronted with such a situation. Scrabbling to re-define ‘deity’ in such a way as to totally exclude the possibility of that super being classed as one, for a start. But not half as much fun how much it would mess with atheists.

Athiest (speaking to his friend) So you started worshipping her, and now you can fly?

Worshipper Yep. And before you ask, no I am not a super. Just look at my pug-ugly face. Besides which, I tried flying before and couldn’t. Nope, she granted my prayer and allowed me to fly.

Athiest That is total bullshit. You know she is just a super, not a god, right?

Worshipper*flies up and hovers in front of friend*

Athiest No way, I am not accepting this. Gods do not exist!

Worshipper*flies a little higher, and starts a slow barrel roll*

Athiest Look, she just has the ability to grant super-powers. That does not make her a god!

Worshipper Sorry, I have to cut this short. There is a prayer meeting soon, and I want to see if I can get invulnerability next. Or should I go for immortality? Mmm, tough one. Maybe see you there?

Now put the two of them together. The one that boosts the super worshipping the super that grants powers to the worshiper. Since the worshiper already has a power, would that end up just boosting the worshiper’s power? So, they are both boosting each other’s power. The end result is that they both become god-like, or they explode from containing too much power.

I wrote a story about a super that could grant powers and was living like a god actually. The catch was that his powers were very addictive and withdrawls were incredibly painful with symptoms of negative, sometimes lethal mutations, blindness from overstimulation, and sometimes permanent insanity. The super had to be killed by a sniper since anyone that got too close would immediately get brought into the cult.

Other impacts of Maxima’s demonstration…
Prof. Xavier: “I told the government, NO MUTANT REGISTRATION! You are not imprisoning the students under my care!”
Nick Fury: “Well, there goes our funding…”
Hal Jordan: “I think Oa is a little out of the jurisdiction here.”
Reed Richards: “Okay, we’ll sign on as an outside contractor.”
Aquaman: “I’m still a superhero, you know! You might not think I am, but I am!”
Hellboy: “…meh.”

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