Anyway, drumming appears to be getting to a point that's nearly identical to the "guitar shredding" boom of the 1980's. It seems as though every other player out there has this degree of chops and that degree of chops. Of course, it was inevitable that it would happen, but remember this: in the long run, most people (non-drummers that is) would still rather listen to Steve Gadd and most would rather hire him.

This is not to say that technical studies aren't important, but groove, great time, and creativity are the most important. The ideal is when there's a balance: great chops and creativity. As an athlete, this is what made Michael Jordan the best basketball player. Some could jump higher or further, but his mental abilities and creativity as a player made him the best. It's my opinion that this is what we should all strive for!

kirk

12-14-2003, 07:11 PM

Welcome Mack to the board, I agree and disagree, feel and creativity and time are essesntial elements which most musicians would agree with and which some on this board have stressed right along with the technique and chops(by the way technique is different than chops)but more important a big no from me. One is no more important.Gadd who I have listened to for over 23 years would not be Gadd if he did not have the Technical tools to express himself the way he did. And you can say that about Steve, Vinnie, Dave W, Virg, Dennis along with many of the other GREAT'S. Their facility is LARGE and gives them the freedom to create without to much hinderance.

Trying to be creative without the facility sounds downright goofy.
We have to accept the fact that almost all of the Huge Fusion influences over the years were the influence they were on so many and left a huge impression because of their amazing technique and chops combined with the creativity and feel and good time and taste. Take the innovative technique and chops and their impact is far less on the drumming world. Many of them just happen to have the whole package. Some of them obviously do not in large part. For myself I like the whole package as many do.And well that is why I am part of this board supporting a Musician like Virg who has the whole package.

Again welcome and you made some great and truthful points that we need to be reminded of.

Regards Kirk

Mack N Drum

12-14-2003, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by kirk
Welcome Mack to the board, I agree and disagree, feel and creativity and time are essesntial elements which most musicians would agree with and which some on this board have stressed right along with the technique and chops(by the way technique is different than chops)but more important a big no from me. One is no more important.Gadd who I have listened to for over 23 years would not be Gadd if he did not have the Technical tools to express himself the way he did. And you can say that about Steve, Vinnie, Dave W, Virg, Dennis along with many of the other GREAT'S. Their facility is LARGE and gives them the freedom to create without to much hinderance.

Trying to be creative without the facility sounds downright goofy.
We have to accept the fact that almost all of the Huge Fusion influences over the years were the influence they were on so many and left a huge impression because of their amazing technique and chops combined with the creativity and feel and good time and taste. Take the innovative technique and chops and their impact is far less on the drumming world. Many of them just happen to have the whole package. Some of them obviously do not in large part. For myself I like the whole package as many do.And well that is why I am part of this board supporting a Musician like Virg who has the whole package.

Again welcome and you made some great and truthful points that we need to be reminded of.

Regards Kirk

Thanks, Kirk. I support Virg for this reason as well. I don't want to come across as though I don't think that chops are important. I, for one, work on my technical skills constantly, but I think that many players are beginning to make it the most important aspect of their playing. The "clone" syndrome seems to be beginning to happen more now than ever before. The same thing happened in the 80's with shred guitarists and I see this trend in drumming. I agree that technical abilities should be used to express one's self more, not to make a drum clinic out of a musical setting. I also agree that we should all be pushing ourselves to improve technically, but only so that it's a means to an end to be more expressive and creative.

Phantom Savage

12-14-2003, 11:19 PM

As time goes by, there will always be better, infact, my uncle knows of a drummer who is faster than Virgil, fast as Yngwie Johann Malmsteen's guitar playing, this guy's kicks sounds like a motor, & then, sounds like blur, this guy is super fast, sadly I forgot his name :(

Mack you are right on and the whole speed issue is way over blown. Speed is Great, but only applied at the right time and in the right setting and control and application is always more important than speed alone. Speed for the sake of speed is BORING and has very little musical value. The Great's know how to use it properly.
Kirk

alencore

12-15-2003, 10:43 AM

I agree to what kirk post.

Gadd will never have those awesome grooves if he hadn't enough techniques to go with. And such techniqeus applied at the right place will sound simply nothing but...music.

There's nothing wrong when people just wanna show off their hard earn chops and stuff and that's were a different crazier freakish fun begins. It has it's audience. If people didn't appreciate such complex moments then Virgil Donati will never have as many members and fans on this board.

It's either you sell out or not. But if it does pay the bill why not as long you don't kill races of people as what these dictators did...ohh..sorry got political there.

MaltBuddow3

12-15-2003, 06:59 PM

lars ulrich

Mack N Drum

12-15-2003, 10:21 PM

Thanks everyone for the good responses. This is a very exciting time for our instrument. There's been a lot of breakthroughs made and knowledge made available in the technical arena, so now we can move forward and apply it as creatively as possible.

Drumblast

12-15-2003, 10:22 PM

Just think of Virgil having the chops of Charlie Watts. That would sound odd.