Should Alan Curbishley remain as West Ham United manager for the 2008/09 season?

Fionn Kiely wrote:Sadly that's the crux of the matter. More and more people are becoming disenfranchised with the Premiership.

More and more people in England, sure. But in the rest of the world, the Premiership continues to grow in popularity. I read somewhere that between 100 million and 300 million Chinese watch it every week. (The population of the US as a whole is somewhere around 300 million now.) That's a lot of shirts, scarves and TV rights money. Here in the US, I get more football on TV than I ever got in France or Holland; I get almost every Premiership game at some point during the week, lots of them live. (Of course, I do have Setanta at home, which not many people have, but still...)

The point is that the Prem is just going to keep getting bigger, and the big clubs are going to keep getting richer.It's largely out of your hands now--it's a global product (brand, if you want to sound American), and foreigners (like me) are pumping money into it. Just look at the ownership of the big clubs (and of WHU, for that matter).

Still, I agree that the Prem is boring. Relegation battles are the most interesting matches! The CCC on Setanta has mostly been better viewing this season and has provided a lot more suspense. The lower-division playoffs have been great. But, then, most European leagues are boring now, dominated by a handful of huge clubs. The CL churns out the usual suspects every year, too. The UEFA Cup has provided much more entertaining football.

Maybe a younger generation of fans will respond by going to lower-league games and supporting the local side--but my guess is that they'll all become big four fans and be content to watch mostly on TV.

All very true but the Game, & it is a Game or was should i say, will lose it's real core Support, but it doesn't give a **** because it actually isn't a Game any more, i was wrong, it's a Business & one Customer can & will get replaced by another..

It's irrelevent if the Club means less to one Customer than it does another, as long a A Customer pays, the Club doesn't care..

Bobby Orangeboom wrote:It's irrelevent if the Club means less to one Customer than it does another, as long a A Customer pays, the Club doesn't care..

Dead on, Bobby. Sadly, dead on. Or spot on, as you'd say in England. I have a lot of respect for football culture; I experienced a bit of it myself in Europe and wouldn't want to see it change. But it is changing because money changes everything. Hey, look at it this way: The existence of the Premiership and all of the money involved with it is one of the reasons why you get to see West Ham play live on TV in Asia (I presume you live in Thailand--yes?) and I get to see them play live in suburban Boston. Even 10 years ago, all I got here was one Italian game a week on RAI and a weekly Prem highlights show on Fox Soccer Channel. So, two sides to every story and all that...

Roaring Repka wrote:And before anyone says 4-5-1 against the big four - firstly it won the games with Man United and Liverpool at home - secondly what formation have heroic attacking managers Redknapp and Pardew used for much of this season, I'd hazard a guess and say far more often than Curbs?

We've used 4-5-1 against "big" clubs for at least thirty odd years, under every manager I've seen us with, including Ron Greenwood. Can 4-5-1 be a tad sterile? Of course, the same way that any formation can be boring if you're not playing well.

A bit of perspective is useful here: Our last significant trophy came on May 10 1980 when we played what was considered a defensive 4-5-1 against that team from Norf London, and came out of it as winners. And frankly, that game could never be considered as "classic" West Ham -- attacking, free-flowing play etc. We set up shop to shut them down, and we did. Whilst I loved the game (and the result!), objectvely speaking, it wasn't that pretty to watch, even with quality players like Bonzo, Geno and Devo. IMO, the busiest people on the pitch were Psycho and p****, chasing down L'Arse non-stop for ninety minutes. You want a better match? Try our last Cup Final, where we really did see an open game with lots of free-flowing football . . .

So, those that complain that Curbs is too defensive when he uses a 4-5-1 against strong opponents might feel jilted, but they may do well to look to our "classic" past and see how things measure up. Once again, all of us have seen moments of utter sh*t during the course of the last three decades, and that has not been confined to Curbs' tenure as manager.

Bobby Orangeboom wrote:It's irrelevent if the Club means less to one Customer than it does another, as long a A Customer pays, the Club doesn't care..

Dead on, Bobby. Sadly, dead on. Or spot on, as you'd say in England. I have a lot of respect for football culture; I experienced a bit of it myself in Europe and wouldn't want to see it change. But it is changing because money changes everything. Hey, look at it this way: The existence of the Premiership and all of the money involved with it is one of the reasons why you get to see West Ham play live on TV in Asia (I presume you live in Thailand--yes?) and I get to see them play live in suburban Boston. Even 10 years ago, all I got here was one Italian game a week on RAI and a weekly Prem highlights show on Fox Soccer Channel. So, two sides to every story and all that...

Of course Walt, in Thailand, we're lucky enough to have EVERY Premiership Game LIVE if we want it so i'm very appreciative of that as if i was here 10 years ago, i'd very rarely be able to see a Game..

But i very much doubt, in 3 or 4 years time, i'd be watching every Game of the Season bar one, like this year, not really too sure why but i just have a feeling...

Fionn Kiely wrote:Honest question, would you prefer football today or mid 80's?

Late 90's would be good if i could choose ???

& not because we were good either if you wanted to check, it was just then i felt it was a nice mix, not too OTT like it is now or not as low tone & amateurish as it could arguebly have been called in the Mid 80's, affordable for all who wanted to attend, pretty easy to get Tickets for Games, pretty easy to bunk in if times were hard, Players that actually were wanting to pay for the Club rather than just get their Pay Cheques, Tackles that were made by Men & taken like Men unlike now & win, lose or draw, a feeling of entertainment with every top flight Game you watched...

Fionn Kiely wrote:Honest question, would you prefer football today or mid 80's?

I'd prefer 85/86, but the rest of the decade had its moments of utter crap. The sort of sh*t that you wouldn't believe.

For instance, the month before we won the Cup Final in 1980, we played Cambridge away and lost 2-0. We played like utter c*****. And this was a side that featured Devo, Geno, Bonzo, Tonka, Psycho and a bunch of great players. Yes, even with that lot in the side, we played like ****ers. Two weeks before the final, we played Shrewsbury at home and lost 3-1. Again, we were utter crap. Again, we had a great team, and played like sh*t. Everyone said we were 'distracted' by the match verus Everton -- maybe that was the case, I dunno -- but I do know that we played like c****. Anyhow, Shrewsbury did a double over us that year - we went up there and lost 3-0 the previous December. It was a bloody disgrace. That season, it took us three (Yes, three!) matches to beat bloody Southend in the league cup!

And, for instance, two days after the cup final, we all went up to Sunderland and saw us play another w*ank match and lose (I think) 2-1.

IMO, there's a lot of us who are guilty of looking at the past with our Claret and Blue tinted specs on. I could go thru' the whole decade and give you moments where we looked great, and -- with the exception of 85/6 -- looked equally sh*t.

Good read that. He's hardly talking about West Ham though is he.......... "So, if you happen to support a smaller club and envy the big dogs - don't do it. They have more silverware, but you have more fun."

Fionn Kiely wrote:Good read that. He's hardly talking about West Ham though is he.......... "So, if you happen to support a smaller club and envy the big dogs - don't do it. They have more silverware, but you have more fun."

I believe the comment about Curbs being 'boring' is another big factor in peoples dislike for him.

Very similar as in the Chelsea situation imo

Charismatic people like Pards and Mourinho have a knack for talking you round and making you believe. Curbs doesn't have that charisma and gift of the gab and should be judged solely on his players performance on the pitch.

YGNB wrote:I believe the comment about Curbs being 'boring' is another big factor in peoples dislike for him.

Very similar as in the Chelsea situation imo

Charismatic people like Pards and Mourinho have a knack for talking you round and making you believe. Curbs doesn't have that charisma and gift of the gab and should be judged solely on his players performance on the pitch.

But aren't the boring performances on the pitch the reason people think Curbs is boring?

YGNB wrote:I believe the comment about Curbs being 'boring' is another big factor in peoples dislike for him.

Very similar as in the Chelsea situation imo

Charismatic people like Pards and Mourinho have a knack for talking you round and making you believe. Curbs doesn't have that charisma and gift of the gab and should be judged solely on his players performance on the pitch.

I think that you've made a good point there. Few people seem to warm to AC, players and fans alike.

Part of his problem seems to be that he is not media-savvy, or at least that he seems ill at ease in front of the cameras. Still at least he's not likely to 'dance' like Pardew in the near future...

Roaring Repka wrote:As long as you want but for every negative decision I will come back with ones that have paid off so feel free, in looking at the last four games where we were supposedly at our worst I've come up with three positives to your one negative so carry on...

Fionn Kiely wrote:Honest question, would you prefer football today or mid 80's?

I much preferred the 70s and 80s though I'm not sure if that's just because of my age, I even enjoyed it when we were in the second division - actually that's probably the time I liked the best.

I'm quite disillusioned now but that's much more to do with the general state of the game and the way a few clubs buy success every year than the way we've played (which has not been pretty but that is understandable).