Your undergraduate degree is nothing more than a piece of paper

(Original post by fortransexual)
I didn't say there had to be a stigma, that was you.

I just think it's overly PC to call two markedly different things the same thing

What you are describing is if I wanted to called two things that were the same by different names

you sound as if you believe there is a clear dichotomy between worthwhile prestigious "academic" degrees and pointless "vocational" degrees.

There isn't. Firstly its a sliding scale. There are a whole range of courses out there that qualify people for a whole range of potential careers. Some are more academic, some are more practical, most are somewhere in between. If anything, our problem in the UK is that we have far too many people taking inappropriately academic courses leaving our economy severely lacking in certain technical skill sets. We should be encouraging more students to take practical courses, not disparaging them as "worthless" and decrying the universities that teach them as "nothing more than a polytechnic".

Everyone has a different skill. Some people are good at maths and will make excellent accountants, some people are good at metal work and will make excellent technicians. Neither one is better than the other, a functioning economy needs both skill sets.

(Original post by fortransexual)
A*A*A*a at A level (I was not allowed to take further maths despite getting highest in the school in regular maths -.-)

^chem phys math (biology)

And what did you do this with? Having a part time job? Having to look after family members? Travelling three hours to school? Everyone circumstances are different and tbh TSR is a bad place to argue with anybody because everyone that uses this wants to better themselves. And that's the key word better ourselves, some peoples targets will be lower but does it mean that their accomplishments are not worthwhile.

Iron lady please tell me go you can judge intelligence? But clap clap to fort tho you really are a smart Un, I got 8Aat AS still doing a2 atm

(Original post by py0alb)
you sound as if you believe there is a clear dichotomy between worthwhile prestigious "academic" degrees and pointless "vocational" degrees.

There isn't. Firstly its a sliding scale. There are a whole range of courses out there that qualify people for a whole range of potential careers. Some are more academic, some are more practical, most are somewhere in between. If anything, our problem in the UK is that we have far too many people taking inappropriately academic courses leaving our economy severely lacking in certain technical skill sets. We should be encouraging more students to take practical courses, not disparaging them as "worthless" and decrying the universities that teach them as "nothing more than a polytechnic".

Everyone has a different skill. Some people are good at maths and will make excellent accountants, some people are good at metal work and will make excellent technicians. Neither one is better than the other, a functioning economy needs both skill sets.

Not really. You essentially took what I said and put a 'worthwhile' a 'prestigious' and a 'pointless' in it. I never said any of those things. One is academic, one is vocational. You did the rest.

If you think people will assume those things because of the word vocational, then you have society to blame not me

(Original post by fortransexual)
A*A*A*a at A level (I was not allowed to take further maths despite getting highest in the school in regular maths -.-)

^chem phys math (biology)

With grades like that I assume you're going to one of the best universities in the country, so why concern yourself with what us mere peasants at ex-polytechnics are doing? If you're worried about the competition you can just say so; you need more than a degree to get a graduate job nowadays, if you have the skills and relevant work experience you're well on your way.

(Original post by SpicyStrawberry)
With grades like that I assume you're going to one of the best universities in the country, so why concern yourself with what us mere peasants at ex-polytechnics are doing? If you're worried about the competition you can just say so; you need more than a degree to get a graduate job nowadays, if you have the skills and relevant work experience you're well on your way.

Because I'm not on here because I'm worried about people with other degrees taking my job or because I want to call people stupid as everyone is assuming.

All I want is to accept academia isn't for everyone and as a society we shouldnt insist on making it the normal thing to do, regardless of ability.

I don't get why this is hard for people to stomach because I can't think of anything that is for everyone as such - people are diverse in their abilities

(Original post by fortransexual)
Not really. You essentially took what I said and put a 'worthwhile' a 'prestigious' and a 'pointless' in it. I never said any of those things. One is academic, one is vocational. You did the rest.

If you think people will assume those things because of the word vocational, then you have society to blame not me

So why do you insist on diving the one entirely functional higher education system we have today split into separate sets of "universities" and "polytechnics"? Why can't they all just be universities? What difference does it make to you what the institutions are called? Surely what matters is that we guide students into doing the qualification that is both best for them and best for the country without having to get all snobbish about which qualification is "better".

(Original post by fortransexual)
Because I'm not on here because I'm worried about people with other degrees taking my job or because I want to call people stupid as everyone is assuming.

All I want is to accept academia isn't for everyone and as a society we shouldnt insist on making it the normal thing to do, regardless of ability.

I don't get why this is hard for people to stomach because I can't think of anything that is for everyone as such - people are diverse in their abilities

I say leave them to it - the people who aren't cut out for academia will either do badly at degree level or drop out early. It's not ideal but it happens all the time, for whatever reasons. Degrees require all sorts of skills, if you're bad at essays that doesn't automatically bar you from going, you just need to identify your strengths and weaknesses and weigh up whether it's really worth it.

I think colleges are partly to blame for this, they push people into university as though that's the only option that is worthwhile (at least that was how it was at my college) and people just apply for the sake of it without putting a lot of thought into it. If colleges are going to continue pushing people into uni they should encourage people to do their research first.

The person doing the degree now has to pay for it, so who cares? People have plans the golf course management thing is an example of this, the ex-poly name seems to be all people care about, perhaps we should laugh at people who live in ex-pig sties (converted barns).

(Original post by fortransexual)
Because I'm not on here because I'm worried about people with other degrees taking my job or because I want to call people stupid as everyone is assuming.

All I want is to accept academia isn't for everyone and as a society we shouldnt insist on making it the normal thing to do, regardless of ability.

I don't get why this is hard for people to stomach because I can't think of anything that is for everyone as such - people are diverse in their abilities

(Original post by py0alb)
So why do you insist on diving the one entirely functional higher education system we have today split into separate sets of "universities" and "polytechnics"? Why can't they all just be universities? What difference does it make to you what the institutions are called? Surely what matters is that we guide students into doing the qualification that is both best for them and best for the country without having to get all snobbish about which qualification is "better".

Because I think the advantage of a split would mean that these vocationally oriented institutions could have their own hierarchies rather than just being the lower end of universities.

The best polytechnic could be somewhere that really was a serious achievement to get into and really would set you up for something good. It would mean they could set up stronger links with companies and develop into a more unique thing than university derivative

If I went to one I'd rather be in the best vocationally oriented institution rather than just the high end of low in the universities leagues (something that comes from making the comparison with academic subjects).

So much snobbery about ex-poly's. For some people, circumstances might mean they have to stay in their home city, and the course they want to do is only offered by an ex-poly in that city. Now, that person could be a straight A student, bright as anything, but what they want to do and where they want to do it happens to be an ex-poly. Why does that make them less worthy of an education just because of where they're studying? Some people might actually prefer the feel of the place at an ex-poly, or prefer the course. Where you study doesn't necessarily reflect your intelligence. And, for that matter, doing something vocational rather than "academic" doesn't make you thick either, it just means that your interests lie in a different area.

Also, anyone who claims that Russell Group universities are the only good ones is getting an arrow to the knee (I'll find a bow and arrow from somewhere...).

(Original post by py0alb)
Errr no. I know lots of people who aren't working in academia who graduated with 1st and 2:1s and now have excellent jobs as a result of it.

I was talking about those who apply for university who aren't cut out for academic work, they will probably drop out or not do as well because they aren't suited to that lifestyle. I never said people who aren't academic get low-paid jobs, even if they did I am not in a position to pass judgement. A job is a job and as long as the people are happy that's great.

Another thing that needs to be taken into account is that though many ex polys may not thrive in traditional subject areas, many do have strong departments that can rival that of well established research universities.