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Yeah, she's all those things. Yet she has this side of her that I'm not sure fits in - she can be incredibly dismissive/cold when she perceives that someone has done her wrong or done a friend wrong (even if it's not a big deal). So IMO there is a lot of 'drama' around her. She recently dumped one of her best friends over something fairly trivial (at least to my mind) and because my daughter is the unofficial leader of the group, I'm afraid that this other girl lost most of her friends.

When it comes to freezing the other girl out, I would guess that was more of an ENFP trait as an ENFJ would probably try to resolve the conflict, especially if it was a minor issue.

One the other hand, as already suggested being the leader of the pack would probably be more of an ENFJ thing, as the ENFP is too inconsistent to raise beyond just being popular in the group.

Originally Posted by alicia91

On the exterior, however my daughter is open-minded, casual, and has a slightly 'alternative' vibe. She's also begging for piercings and a tattoo. :steam:

Sounds like ENFP.

Maybe you should try to stack evidence of tell-tale signs of P-ness og J-ness? Is she late for class? Does she clean her room regularly? Does she structure her time or is she always up for a last minute change of plan?

I have developed this theory - completely out of nowhere - that the unspoken approval of others means a lot to ENFPs but oddly enough they somehow always end up doing things the non-mainstream way and thus often stick out a little bit.

Similarly, ENFJs don't need approval in the same way but for some reason usually complies with the usual way of thing thus seeming more mainstream. I don't know if this theory holds but it something I thought about that seems to be true.

Also, on a last note, a you sure she is ENFx. There is always a risk when people do online tests. Surprisingly many SPs test as Ns. I once heard an ESFP claim he tested as INTJ

But then again, sometimes teens surprise you - you don't know them as well as you thought. I saw my daughter's My Space and was quite surprised by several things However, my parents probably felt the same way about me at that age!

Just trying to figure out my 15-yo daughter. She did some quick online test and came out ENFP but I'm not so sure. I've read the descriptions and frankly they sound very similar to me. I know the function order for each but still...? Any obvious differences?

At that age, not really. I took many tests many times all throughout high school starting when I was 15, and my results were so widely varied as INFP, ENFP, INFJ, ENTJ. Actually, ENFJ was the result I got the least, but my tendency then and less so now to answer according to how I wish I were as opposed to how I know I am should only tell you that it's entirely possible that your daughter didn't answer 100&#37; truthfully. She's a teenager, it's rough to be a teenager no matter how easy you have it.

Originally Posted by Penguin

well, if she keeps spilling out strange ideas like "when i grow up, i want to become the minister of health and rid it of corruption by employing an army of 10 million policemen to survey them", or is the more studious type(likes to know a great many things), gets bored very easily, acts all goofy and things like that, then she is an enfp

dunno how ENFJ's really behave frankly

Yeah, I do all of those things, did all of those things, and I am not an ENFP.

Originally Posted by alicia91

Yeah, she's all those things. Yet she has this side of her that I'm not sure fits in

Lolz. Don't we all. I think I know what you mean though. She's open and honest about her thoughts and feelings, wants and needs but there are some places she won't go?

Originally Posted by alicia91

she can be incredibly dismissive/cold when she perceives that someone has done her wrong or done a friend wrong (even if it's not a big deal). So IMO there is a lot of 'drama' around her.

Understand that in this post I'm trying to relate myself to the information you've given in the hopes that it will give something of a reference point, but I'm not saying that because your daughter and myself at the time share some attributes, she'll turn out to be the same type as me (though it would be desireable )
I used to have alot of drama circling around me, and I brought it on myself, but was somehow blissfully unaware that I was the one bringing it upon myself. Believe me, I wasn't a bad person, as a matter of fact I was pretty oblivious to the chaos that my ever-changing and volatile emotions caused, but I still cared about people. Now as I get older I'm becoming more and more aware of how in order to care for others, it needs to be shown. I'll have to put aside my arbitrary moral system in favor of my desire to be productive in social interaction. Kind of like the description that ENFJ's will put the concerns of others before their own.

This is extremely vague I know, but I don't really know how to get this across.

Originally Posted by alicia91

She recently dumped one of her best friends over something fairly trivial (at least to my mind) and because my daughter is the unofficial leader of the group, I'm afraid that this other girl lost most of her friends.

That's unfortunate, though I've done that in the past. Thankfully though, I was never an official or unofficial leader of any social circle, so when I decided to cut someone out, they didn't lose all of their friends and I was forced to be around them and make amends because we had mutual friends who wanted to hang out with both of us.

I think it's interesting that she's an unofficial leader though. I'm assuming she hangs out almost exclusively with girls? Being that I'm an F and I hang out almost exclusively with T guys, I've never been in that position. I don't want to say I have authority but I have insites into different aspects of life than my friends do, and I speak up when I feel it's a good move. So within my group I have a unique position because my personality is so different from the others. And it works great

Originally Posted by alicia91

Well, they are in highschool and it's none of my business but when I was her age I was definately more easy going about other people. On the exterior, however my daughter is open-minded, casual, and has a slightly 'alternative' vibe. She's also begging for piercings and a tattoo. :steam:

Yeah, I only have my ears pierced, but I want to get a tattoo. It's just going to be writing that says "Is this a dream?" in relatively small text. I could very easily be described in the same way you describe your daughter. I'm open with people and I behave casually, though since I've grown to be accepting of my own differences, I'm seen as strange but very, very approachable. Again, vague, I know. I don't really know how to describe it so if you have any questions that would probably actually help.

Also, on a last note, a you sure she is ENFx. There is always a risk when people do online tests. Surprisingly many SPs test as Ns. I once heard an ESFP claim he tested as INTJ

Yep, I am ISTP and used to always test INTJ ? LOL

She's definately an N. I come from a very SP family and she's really different! For Christmas I gave her the complete works of Edgar Allen Poe, she loves poetry, literature, and all that stuff which didn't interest me at that age. Also she's an A student in everything except history which she claims is the most difficult for her because she can't keep track of a bunch of facts and then remember things sequentially. She's very conceptual and once she learns something she just applies it. Wants to be a journalist.

Maybe you should try to stack evidence of tell-tale signs of P-ness og J-ness? Is she late for class? Does she clean her room regularly? Does she structure her time or is she always up for a last minute change of plan?

P - likes her time unstructured (yet still manages to get it all done when it needs to be - schoolwork)
- her room = complete disaster
- hates routines and often plays before working
- not really goal oriented

J - likes to finish projects
- in the end she is always prepared, never forgets to do homework,

She is very popular with all the adults she encounters. On many occasions she has been asked to speak at our church, deliver the children's sermon, update the congregation on the youth projects etc. At school the teachers all say that they want to adopt her. She was the first kid in her year to win the Student of the Month award, she student mentors two boys in Physics at 6:30 am, she is the head of the JV German club (the teacher just asked her to assist him), she colorguards for the marching band and initially applied to be the Squad Captain even though that's usually for Seniors and Juniors. She ended up pulling her application because she decided to work another summer full-time as a camp counsellor and it would have conflicted. After she did that the Marching Band teacher and the Drum Majors told her that while they understand her decision, they would have picked her to be the first Sophmore Captain in many, many years. What I keep hearing is how very 'inspirational' she is to everyone around her, and also very responsible. Ha - if they could only see the state of her bedroom!

Now that I've thought some more about it, perhaps the incident with the friend she cold-shouldered was a BIG deal to her but as an adult (and SP) I think differently. Basically the cold-shouldered friend as a joke wrote a list of names of kids she suspected to be doing drugs and threw it into a trash can where a teacher found it and turned it in to the principal. A couple of my daughters friends were on the list and apparently they have never touched drugs. My daughters attitude is "what kind of a stupid, unloyal, idiot would do that and besides, half of the names aren't druggies anyhow. How can I trust someone like that?" This girl has apologized and the office didn't contact parents but it makes no difference. Done deal - goodbye. I really like this girl and had hoped that they would patch it up.

It's funny that the HumanMetrics test is regarded as unreliabe here and on INTP Central. That's the one that keeps typing me INTJ. Still does.

She did the quickie Insight Game and another on Similar Minds which was more extensive and had a scale for each answer. But I'm positive about the ENF part - I've also come to that conclusion from reading Nuture by Nature and just general observation.

betrayal

ENFPS once betrayed have a very hard time every totally trusting that person again.

Originally Posted by alicia91

Thanks so much for all the help everyone.

Yep, I am ISTP and used to always test INTJ ? LOL

She's definately an N. I come from a very SP family and she's really different! For Christmas I gave her the complete works of Edgar Allen Poe, she loves poetry, literature, and all that stuff which didn't interest me at that age. Also she's an A student in everything except history which she claims is the most difficult for her because she can't keep track of a bunch of facts and then remember things sequentially. She's very conceptual and once she learns something she just applies it. Wants to be a journalist.

P - likes her time unstructured (yet still manages to get it all done when it needs to be - schoolwork)
- her room = complete disaster
- hates routines and often plays before working
- not really goal oriented

J - likes to finish projects
- in the end she is always prepared, never forgets to do homework,

She is very popular with all the adults she encounters. On many occasions she has been asked to speak at our church, deliver the children's sermon, update the congregation on the youth projects etc. At school the teachers all say that they want to adopt her. She was the first kid in her year to win the Student of the Month award, she student mentors two boys in Physics at 6:30 am, she is the head of the JV German club (the teacher just asked her to assist him), she colorguards for the marching band and initially applied to be the Squad Captain even though that's usually for Seniors and Juniors. She ended up pulling her application because she decided to work another summer full-time as a camp counsellor and it would have conflicted. After she did that the Marching Band teacher and the Drum Majors told her that while they understand her decision, they would have picked her to be the first Sophmore Captain in many, many years. What I keep hearing is how very 'inspirational' she is to everyone around her, and also very responsible. Ha - if they could only see the state of her bedroom!

Now that I've thought some more about it, perhaps the incident with the friend she cold-shouldered was a BIG deal to her but as an adult (and SP) I think differently. Basically the cold-shouldered friend as a joke wrote a list of names of kids she suspected to be doing drugs and threw it into a trash can where a teacher found it and turned it in to the principal. A couple of my daughters friends were on the list and apparently they have never touched drugs. My daughters attitude is "what kind of a stupid, unloyal, idiot would do that and besides, half of the names aren't druggies anyhow. How can I trust someone like that?" This girl has apologized and the office didn't contact parents but it makes no difference. Done deal - goodbye. I really like this girl and had hoped that they would patch it up.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, oil your brain, before it starts to rust...

Just trying to figure out my 15-yo daughter. She did some quick online test and came out ENFP but I'm not so sure. I've read the descriptions and frankly they sound very similar to me. I know the function order for each but still...? Any obvious differences?

But then again, sometimes teens surprise you - you don't know them as well as you thought. I saw my daughter's My Space and was quite surprised by several things However, my parents probably felt the same way about me at that age!

ENFP is a dominant Extroverted Perceiving type. ENFJ is a dominant Extroverted Judging type. The latter is very systematic about dealings with the external world, and the former is very unstructured.

The ENFP is an Introverted Judging type. Personal values are based on subjective factors. Strictly speaking, it is about what matters to the individual. ENFJ is a dominant Extroverted Judging (again), values primarily orient around the objective factor, in most cases what is valued and what is beneficial for society. This tendency is very distinctly expressed in the ENFJ and hardly at all in the ENFP. Moderately expressed tendency in the ENFP is the earlier described judgment of the Introverted Judgment.

The ENFP is, as aforementioned, a dominant extroverted perceiving type. This means that the focus of perception is on the external environment. The ENFJ is an introverted perceiving type. The external environment and abstract information about such is collected in relation to how it is valued by the ENFJ. The ENFP can easily have his head spinning collecting all information that there could be whilst the ENFJ only collects what he finds necessary. By the same token, in the paragraph above we see that the ENFJ easily passes judgment on all things whilst the ENFP, as an introverted judger reserves it strictly for things of importance.

That should do it. Let me know if further inquiry is required.

"Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

That was very useful information BlueWing. Based on that, and everything else - I'm strongly leaning to ENFP. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that she is basing descisions on what is good for society, it's all personal factors. Other than a few things she takes issue with, she's remarkably open-minded and doesn't pass judgement much at all. And she's so extraverted, that I think we would all know.

ENFPS once betrayed have a very hard time every totally trusting that person again

Yeah, I can see that. She tends to remember things that people did to her years ago.