I think people need to move away from the mindset that considers having children to be a basic human right. Personally I believe having children should be considered a privilege for those people lucky enough to able to do so.

Truthfully I'd like people to stop pumping out babies while we still have world-wide orphan problems. I know this is a little extreme, but I get a little bit frustrated when I see newborns. Even in my country we have an extremely manageable orphan population with far more then enough families to solve it, and yet people continue to play god creating life at the drop of a hat to fulfill their own selfish needs. Again, I know most people don't look at childbirth in such a negative light, but the existence of orphans bothers me.

My class had to do that in science class! We had to bring in a boiled egg and our teacher would put his initials on it so we don't cheat. Anyways we had to keep a daily journal for it on what time we feed it and how long it slept for (yes it sounds stupid). Oh and it the egg was cracked you failed the class.

In the UK the majority of people on benefits that live in social housing only have kids to get more money. These kids are not looked after, all the money gets spent by the parents on themselves (smoking / drinking drugs / gambling), those children are pretty much left to themselves and in most cases end up being hopeless waste of spaces just like their parents.

I'm speaking from experience. It's a huge problem that's putting a big strain on the government.

Most parents, even first-timers, don't have that much trouble raising their children. Heck, the human race has been around for well over 2 million years; we wouldn't be here if we didn't have some sort parental instincts. Besides, those who need help with parenting already have access to all sorts of courses, and also the advice of friends and relatives - such as their own parents.

Thinking that any sort of license/course would prevent neglection and abuse, with all respect, is silly. Bad, and careless parents, will still be bad. That's if they even get it. So in the end, all you're adding is unnecessary burden for decent ones, some truly invasive control measures, and extra costs to the country. It's a huge tax, both economically and ethically, for little to no return.

How come people assume that the government will remove children from the household, you would simply have to pay a fine.

Often times, it's poor families that are guilty of bad parenting. Fining them is only going to further impoverish those kids. Also, one of the articles linked in the OP mentioned kids being taken from their parents by the government in the U.K.

As new requirements and rulings arise and we read about children -- mainly in the UK -- being forcibly removed from their birth-parents by government agencies,

See? So I don't think it's out of line to think that the government might take the kids away.

Often times, it's poor families that are guilty of bad parenting. Fining them is only going to further impoverish those kids. Also, one of the articles linked in the OP mentioned kids being taken from their parents by the government in the U.K.

See? So I don't think it's out of line to think that the government might take the kids away.

The question then becomes if these parents that 1. are not able to pay the fine and 2. dont want to take a free course on how to be a good parent, are suitable to have children in the first place.

The question then becomes if these parents that 1. are not able to pay the fine and 2. dont want to take a free course on how to be a good parent, are suitable to have children in the first place.

So then you're back to taking the kids away from them. You can debate from your computer desk all you want about whether or not these parents are fit to take care of them, but I can assure you there are tons of kids out there who would rather be in poverty with their parents, than taken away from them. There's probably a ton of teenagers that would love the idea, but not for the right reasons.

The point is, kids need their parents. It's almost impossible to find a bond that's equivalent to a blood relative, even if said relative isn't fit to raise you.

Yeah great only who decides who can and can't be a parent? What are the criteria? Who decides what is good parenting and bad parenting?

You want the government deciding how children should be raised? Those idiots?

I agree with the government being idiots.

I don't want the government deciding or regulating my parenting or telling me if I can be a parent. On both sides they are nothing but a bunch of babbling idiots just out for themselves and their agenda.

Indeed there is parents out there that don't have a clue and probably need a few classes but I'm against any and all regulation, because it would eventually apply to everyone.

Often times, it's poor families that are guilty of bad parenting. Fining them is only going to further impoverish those kids. Also, one of the articles linked in the OP mentioned kids being taken from their parents by the government in the U.K.

See? So I don't think it's out of line to think that the government might take the kids away.

Not necessarily. My family was poor and they were the best parents I could have asked for. They were actually my grandparents who adopted me from their own daughter. I was around 6 months old when they got me and I was pretty much on my death bed. They gave me a chance at life that I would have otherwise not gotten. And although I didn't get to do a lot that most younger kids/teenagers got to do, I am happy with the way I was raised. I know of a few poor families as I grew up and they raised wonderful kids as well. But I'm not saying we are perfect but being poor doesn't make someone a poor parent. Hell, even now my family is poor and we are doing a good job at raising our daughter.

Kudos to someone trying to address the issue. Too many people that are incapable of caring for children on their own and people who are just plain dumb are producing babies and subjecting them to horrible environments. That said, this kind of legislation in the U.S would never pass and would carry complications if it did pass by some miracle.[COLOR="red"]

In the United States, there are free parenting classes available in a variety of settings. If you get any kind of service for your child, you have probably had them offered to you.

If you have any kind of intervention, such as CPS, they can be court mandated.
That is how it should stay. Spend your resources on the people who need help, not the ones going out and succeeding.

This depends on the state in question, poorer states do not have this option. Also this type of assistance is often limited to urban areas as suburban/rural social service agencies simply do not have the time and budget for it.

Federal funding can help fix this and it could potentially be done relatively cheaply.

Nurses/nurse practitioners, however, DO give some of this basic information out to the parents during a mother's hospital stay after childbirth; topics such as breastfeeding are usually covered (unless there is some condition present where the mother in question will be bottle feeding with formula instead, in which case proper bottle preparation and feeding is usually discussed) but the information given is generally not comprehensive and it is not a structured "class" or program.

As you stated CPS intervention can make such courses mandatory.

Originally Posted by Paul - Thrall

The ignorance on this thread gave me cancer. At least I have insurance. Thanks, Obama!

Truthfully I'd like people to stop pumping out babies while we still have world-wide orphan problems. I know this is a little extreme, but I get a little bit frustrated when I see newborns. Even in my country we have an extremely manageable orphan population with far more then enough families to solve it, and yet people continue to play god creating life at the drop of a hat to fulfill their own selfish needs. Again, I know most people don't look at childbirth in such a negative light, but the existence of orphans bothers me.

Responsible parents/families should forgo having kids of their own, and instead adopt the children of irresponsible parents who were incapable of raising them? You may believe it selfish for parents to want to have their own children, but anyone who believes a family should not have their own children but instead adopt orphans to solve a problem is self-righteous.

Calling out all parents who have their own children as "playing god to fulfill their own selfish needs" is senseless. Fortunately for most of us our parents didn't feel this way.

I'm tired of this mindset that "good people" should be punished for other peoples mistakes. I have great respect for any families that adopt orphaned children, but many people do not share that desire. They should be encouraged to have children of their own and give them the same opportunities that we were given.

License required since I don't think it's good when someone has 3+ children. Why do they need so many? They already have 3 of their own, they want more? Adopt one!
Plus, there's many people who just make babies because they don't care about anything, contraception, having a baby etc or because they want the children to one day help them in the fields or something... I mean come on... we're no longer in medieval times, we're not after a world war, there's no need for that.

And courses yes, but only for basic stuff, I mean what/how/when to feed, changing diapers etc, I mean not what education you should get your child. If you want your child to learn piano, that's up to you, but the courses shouldn't impose that on your child for example.

Responsible parents/families should forgo having kids of their own, and instead adopt the children of irresponsible parents who were incapable of raising them? You may believe it selfish for parents to want to have their own children, but anyone who believes a family should not have their own children but instead adopt orphans to solve a problem is self-righteous.

Choosing to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem is self righteous? Now that's a new one. You can think whatever you want about their parents but those kids have just as much value as whatever pops out of your wife/girlfriend except they are already here. Besides, why can't you do both? Why not have biological children AND adopt? There's a clear need for adoption (Russia alone has 700,000 orphans), so why couldn't you save one spot on your roster and give a family to someone who will otherwise grow up alone?

Calling out all parents who have their own children as "playing god to fulfill their own selfish needs" is senseless. Fortunately for most of us our parents didn't feel this way.

It's not senseless, it's the truth. The mentality is I want a son. I want a daughter. You're creating things out of thin air to add value to your own life. It's very much like playing god. And for your final thought..fortunate for you maybe.

I'm tired of this mindset that "good people" should be punished for other peoples mistakes.

Where the hell is this coming from? It's sad when you look at taking a desperate human child into your home as punishment.

Yes, there are way to many parents who are just terrible at parenting the the one who suffers is the child. At the same time how would it really help? Bad parents will be bad, just like drunk drivers will be drunk drivers. All you need to do is pay attention and do what you are told during the training/test and after that you go back to however you were. We do it as drivers and I am sure people will do it as parents.

As much as I think the planet is already overpopulated and people need to stop breeding, and as much as I wish there weren't terrible parents out there, I just can't agree with regulating this.

WoW having more subs than SWTOR is the same thing as Justin Bieber having more youtube plays than Tupac. Just because its more popular doesn't mean its good.
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