Monday, July 25, 2005

"liberate tutemae"

This is the Age of Magic, Where everything is run by Spells!This is the Age of Magic, Where everything is run by Spells!- from "Merlin," Bohemian Grove play of 1999

What is the mission, again?

I asked the question yesterday regarding the rape and torture of children at Abu Ghraib. And the answer, for me, is also the summation of much of what we've studied here.

The mission is brutalization. Not just of the captives, but of the captors and their codependent subjects in the Homeland. Because the transformative mission extends beyond the literal confines of Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, to the imaginative boundaries of Empire, in a New Age for the End of Days, at least as we have known them. And we should have seen enough by now to have seen it coming.

Consider the similarities to accounts of Satanic Ritual Abuse. Kathleen Sullivan has written of the impact of the initial release of torture images: "Many survivors...are experiencing an additional set of reactions....wave after wave of devastating emotions and flashbacks after each new revelation is made public. What was done to the prisoners is too similar to what was perpetrated against most of us." And again I recommend Professor Pan's "Sex, Drugs, Mind Control, and Gitmo" for a penetrating analysis of the method behind the mad kink. (From The New York Post: Iraq's feared Abu Ghraib jail was one big sex romp.... "There was a bed found in one of the abandoned buildings. There was a mattress on the ground. They had chairs all circled around it and candles all over the place," said Bischel, adding the chairs were "obviously for an audience.")

Abuse. Everyone can see that. Satanic. Many can see that, too, at least as a powerful adjective signifying transgression. The actions can be rightly called devilish even by those for whom the Devil and the Dark Gods have neither literal nor symbolic meaning. But ritual - that's where most falter. To nearly everyone, the ritual remains invisible, here and everywhere. (The Hosanna Church crimes, for one contemporary instance, which have been denuded of their purpose by the FBI and the District Attorney.)

America is held in a death-grip by fascists of a National Socialist pedigree - the manifestation of the demonic in the political realm. So we should know the religion of the High Criminals less by their public professions of faith than by the blood offerings they make.

Understandably, talk of ritual is off-putting to secular rationalists. But by ignoring how important ritual is to some, crimes can go unsolved, and criminals free.

One avenue, which was never explored by the police of the day, mainly due to their ignorance, was occult ritual murder, including the doctrine that certain organs should be removed from murdered prostitutes, killed at pre-arranged sites, which were to be located at the four points of the compass.

Edwards took compass bearings of the Ripper's first four victims and found they were laid out in a cross, facing North, South, East and West. Measureing the distances between them, "I found that by joining some of the sites together, you created two equilateral triangles; a sacred symbol which, in occult doctrine, Satan devised to be used in worship of him."

The Guardian adds:

After examining the position of the fifth and last victim, 25-year-old Marie Jeanette Kelly, Edwards realised that all the women were killed within a 500-yard radius and that, by joining the sites together, it was possible to create the Vesica Piscis, a fish-like symbol worshipped by the early Christians. By murdering his victims and leaving their bodies in that way, the killer intended a tribute to Satan.

Edwards said the organs removed by the Ripper - the heart, kidneys, genitalia and womb - were those routinely used in black magic rituals.

Edwards' candidate for the Ripper is a physician and occultist named Dr Robert Donston Stephenson, alias Roslyn D'Onston, who had boasted of at least two killings in Africa, had his name given to London police by four friends as a Ripper suspect after having made partial confessions, whose wife mysteriously vanished, and who himself disappeared without a trace shortly after the turn of the century.

In his unpublished article "Jack the Ripper," Aleister Crowley writes:

After the last of the murders, an article appeared in the newspaper of W. T. Stead, the Pall Mall Gazette, by Tau Tria Delta, who offered a solution for the motive of the murders. It stated that in one of the grimoires of the Middle Ages, an account was given of a process by which a sorcerer could attain "the supreme black magical power" by following out a course of action identical with that of Jack the Ripper.

...

In every case, either Saturn or Mercury were precisely to the Eastern horizon at the moment of the murder (by precisely, one means within a matter of minutes).

Mercury is, of course, the God of Magic, and his averse distorted image the Ape of Thoth, responsible for such evil trickery as is the heart of black magic, while Saturn is not only the cold heartlessness of age, but the magical equivalent of Satan. He is the old god who was worshipped in the Witches' Sabbath.

"Tau tri delta" also published an article entitled "African Magic" in the November 1890 issue of Lucifer, the Theosophical journal. Here is an interesting excerpt concerning the typical necromancer:

The very least of the crimes necessary for him (or her) to commit to attain the power sought is actual murder, by which the human victim essential to the sacrifice is provided . . . Yet, though the price is awful, horrible, unutterable, the power is real.

"Tau tri delta" went on to explain that a necromancer needed "a certain portion of the body of a harlot" and that the Ripper murders marked the points of a profaned cross over London. "Tau tri delta" was later determined to be none other than Dr Robert Donston Stephenson.

Crowley was only 13 at the time of the Ripper killings, but became great friends with Stephenson in later years.

Stephenson and the young Crowley

"From Hell" - Jack even supplied a return address, and still they couldn't catch him.

When I call fascism with a National Socialist pedigree the manifestation of the demonic in the political realm, perhaps the image of Lt. Col. Michael Aquino comes to mind, performing his magickal working in Himmler's castle. The picture needn't be that vivid to be true, though sometimes it is. Another example is the "traditional Satanic" Order of Nine Angles, about which I'll say more later. First, about their "Dark Gods" - from where do they come?

The acausal universe itself may be described as that aspect of the cosmos bounded by acausal time and possessing more than three spatial dimensions; the causal universe may be described as that aspect of the cosmos bounded by causal, or linear, time and possessing three spatial dimensions at right angles to each other. The entities known to esoteric tradition as the Dark Gods are beings which exist in the acausal universe. Other such beings probably exist in the acausal realm, but the Dark Gods are known to us through having, at various times in our evolution, "intruded" into our spatial universe.

Black magick, but magick nonetheless, and to most people that means nonsense. But science may be catching up to the mumbo jumbo.

In Parallel Worlds, physicist Michio Kaku writes that:

Anyone who can tap into the fourth spatial dimension (or what is today called the fifth dimension, with time being the fourth) can indeed become invisible, and can even assume the powers normally ascribed to ghosts and gods.... [I]n a four- dimensional world we are the flatlanders, oblivious of the fact that higher planes of existence might hover right above ours. We believe that our world consists of all that we can see, unaware that there may be entire universes right above our noses. Although another universe might be hovering just inches above us, floating in the fourth dimension, it would appear to be invisible.

Kaku adds, "several experiments are now being conducted to detect the presence of parallel universes that might be hovering just above ours."

In the science fiction-horror film Event Horizon, a rescue vessel approaches an experimental, hyperdimensional craft which had unexpectedly returned to our reality:

D.J.: I wasn't going to tell you this. I've been listening to the distress signal, and I, um, think I made a mistake in the translation.Miller: Go on.D.J.: I thought it said "liberate mae" - "save me." But it's not "mae." It's "liberate tutemae" - "save yourself." And it gets worse - there - I think that says "ex inferis." "Save yourself...from hell."Miller: You don't believe in that kind of Stuff, do you?D.J.: Whoever sent that message, he sure believes in Hell.

We're accustomed to interpret "higher" as more advanced, more evolved - our moral superior. Unfortunately, with respect to "higher" dimensions, I think that will prove - may already have been proven - a logical fallacy.

People sometimes ask me for advice. All I know to say is liberate tutemae ex inferis, and hope I've just seen too many movies.

If we're lucky the Spells won't hurt usIf we're not, then you'd better hide!For this is the Age of MagicWhere all the rules are cast aside!

1147 Comments:

Anonymous said...

Some age-old mystical doctrines/revelations might be of use if as we do believe, entities, egregores, and demonic stuff control or influence our leaders.In deep mystical traditions, there are no separations in the fabric of the universe, whatever the number of dimensions. No good, no evil, no separate entities.The demonic is what wants to keep being separated, and glut on what it comes accross.For those who have realized the wholeness of everything, a demon, an egregore, even if extremely powerful, is but a grain of sand in the infinite of the whole, an a neurotic contraction. He can be tortured or killed or suffer worse fates, he will understand/feel it is still the Self/Universe/God at play with itself.At a personal level, this can be helpful.Plus, people who finally attained this view (which is nothing short of Buddhahood, Christ-like state of mind, i.e. the deepest understanding of what is), are able to effectively spread this wholeness, which creates useful compassion, fraternity, etc... demons can be turned upside down, their energy can turn into the opposite, they'll actually help serve the cause of non-separateness -like the dharman protectors, demons who have been subjugated-

this rant to say: it's high time we all try to clear the mess of our minds, and make a difference. Political and social action only goes so far. We have to shed light on our inner workings, mainly anger aggression greed the need to feast upon others and all the primal urges. Thats what feed demons in all dimensions. If we recognize it, not intellectually mind you, it slowly loses strength.

Sorry for the long rant and the preachy tone. I myself am good food provider for demonic entities i think, so i wish for myself and everyone that we make haste and root out this relative "evil" in ourselves.

I thought that this was relevent. Not that it´s a histotical document, but what is these days ?

"From Hell is a graphic novel by writer Alan Moore and artist Eddie Campbell speculating upon the identity and motives of Jack the Ripper. The title is taken from the first words of the "From Hell" letter, which some authorities believe was an authentic message sent from the killer in 1888. The work is dense, multilayered and immensely detailed; the collected edition is about 572 pages long."ORIGINAL LINK

I was getting excited about an adaptation of Alan Moore's work of the V for Vendetta, using the screenplay created by the Wachowski brothers.... until I read this "Alan Moore has explicitly disassociated himself from the movie adaptation of his graphic novel. He ended cooperation with his publisher, DC Comics, after it failed to retract statements that Moore called "blatant lies" about his supposed endorsement of the movie in a press release by producer Joel Silver. Moore also read a preview of the film script and said:

It was imbecilic; it had plot holes you couldn't have got away with in Whizzer and Chips in the nineteen sixties. Plot holes no one had noticed."

It´s a real shame for anyone with an interest in the sacred science and deep politics... especially after matrix 2 and 3..

I think this is a perfect example of how, once you leave consensus reality behind, the 'meaningful' can morph into the 'totally bloody barmy' and out again, taking a lot of well-intentioned people with it and making them look damn silly.

The best Ripper site on the web is Casebook Jack the Ripper (http://www.casebook.org/), and I’d recommend anyone to go there before they start to develop any ideas about Pentacles and the positions of the victims.

Jack the Ripper is supreme Trickster territory. Everything is amorphous; even the number of victims cannot be agreed upon. To put it simply – so many prostitutes were regularly being slain in Whitechapel in the 19th C it’s a matter of fine choice which of them you happen to think were killed by ‘The Ripper’ and which were not. Some authorities opt for the famous five victims. Some opt for many more and say nine or ten. Some claim Liz Stride was evidently never a Ripper victim and so opt for only four or even just three ‘Ripper Victims’. There is even a very distinguished school of thought that argues JTR was simply an artefact of the media and copycat killings, and that ‘the Ripper as an individual never existed at all.

So, any exploration of Pentacles has to take this extreme looseness into account, or it will end up finding patterns in inkblots; perceiving what is only there by nature of the perception.

And beware of theorists bearing suspects. It’s true that almost every white male (or occasionally female) who was alive and within three hundred miles of the killings at the time has at some time or another been put forward as a new suspect. D’Onston is just one of these – and not one of the more plausible (Edwards used to contribute to the discussion list on the Casebook and came across as more than a little unstable). In addition to him we have had (to name only a few and in no particular order):

the Duke of Clarence, Doctor Gull, ‘the Masons’ (all of them?), Weedon Grossmith and his brother George, Thomas Neil Cream (who was in jail at the time, but these things don’t tend to get in the way of some theorists), Montague Druitt, the King of the Belgians, Francis Tumblety, George Chapman, Abraham Kosminski, Queen Victoria, Walter Sickert and Lewis Carroll. There is even presently a group of dedicated souls working feverishly to ‘prove’ that the obviously and ludicrously faked Maybrick Diary is genuine and that poor poisoned James Maybrick was indeed the Ripper.

So, any theory must proceed with extreme caution in a zone of high madness. I confess myself as open to ‘the weird’ as the next person, but danger looms once we start thinking that because the weird is there it is EVERYWHERE. Sure, there are conspiracies, and cover-ups and – God knows maybe – even Satanic ritual killings. But sometimes there AREN’T, you know? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and a seemingly crazy guy selling a crazy theory is just what he seems.

I agree with so much that you say, but I feel nervous about going too far into completely undisciplined speculation. The backwash from this can discredit the highly legitimate in the end.

A lot of people will read the stuff about D'Onston and KNOW it's a little uninformed. Then, what do they do when they read your other stuff which is SO informed and so sane?

Seriously, there’s a terrible danger in abandoning rationality entirely. That way – truly – madness lies. It’s the seduction of the Trickster, who you can rely on to always always lead you into a swamp pf your own delusion. Which is why you should never follow him, but simply watch where he goes and make note.

Please don't take offence, I know it's so hard to find any boundaries at all once we have knocked down the traditional ones. But we do need to find them, because boundaries exist and they matter. there is a dividing line between real truth and madness, and if we don't distinguish we are betraying the truth we are searching for.

It's a striking characteristic of early 20th century occult horror stories that all the supernatural powers and entities appear to be dark ones. If you read your way through issues of Weird Tales from the late 1920's and early 30's, you quickly realize that the good guys almost never have magical powers or magical allies -- they are occult detectives or sword-wielding barbarians or reluctant witnesses, but never sorcerors themselves.

Much of the content of this site seems to share the premises of those stories.

In contrast, most other fantasy, and apparently most genuine occult traditions, put emphasis on the shaman or witch doctor as the protector of humanity. In dualistic systems, the existence of dark forces is accepted but there are also powerful guardians against those forces. In monistic systems, there are not even held to be dark forces, but merely humans who access the universal forces in twisted ways.

To change the metaphor somewhat, we might say that all "magic" is a matter of reprogramming the operation of the human brain. (Depending on your presumptions, you might say that the goal of this reprogramming is either to access other levels of reality or to interact with our familiar reality in a radically different manner.)

This reprogramming can be accomplished in rather quick and dirty ways -- violence, transgressive sex, emotional trauma -- often with fairly immediate and dramatic results. But this sort of overclocking is never good for the system. That is why more authentic traditions depend instead on gentler forms of reprogramming, such as meditation, together with various methods of self-knowledge and self-criticism to clear out the dangerous elements of greed, lust, and power-hunger that can be stirred up by access to higher knowledge.

If there really are white magicians in our world, you are not going to find them in positions of worldly power. Their appearance is far more likely to be humble, and their operations hidden, subtle, and long-term.

Yeah, they've realized the pointlessness of such quaint customs as christianity and the Geneva Convention.

The Salvador Option is coming, if it's not already here. That means death squads, in Iraq and possibly in the United States.

Information warfare and public perception management (did you know there is an Agency for Public Perception Management?) mean that they have to control what we see and hear. The Tofflers, in War and Anti-War, talk about one omnipresent voice. Propaganda isn't quite that bad yet-- there are a lot of us down on the lower echelon who are still saying the truth-- but the voice of Fox is so much louder.

Welcome to 5GW, baby.

By the way, great job, Jeff. I read RI just about every day. The truth of deep politics goes much farther than most people suspect, and the reality is horrifying.

First off, where did Ellie come from? Always detailed and insightful posts.

Does anyone have a map of the first five ripper killing? I'm way out of my league here, but since the second bombings were cross shaped and the first were supposed to be cross shaped (allegedly...or actually, if you listened to one NPR interview with a Guardian reporter who called the first bombing a "fiery cross"...) I was curious. As for the "extra" ripper killings...I'm reminded of the advice in Silence of the Lambs from Hannibal to Clarice:

The killings are TOO random. The later killings were plotted to obscure the meaning of the first killing.

Ellie, I think this is where strict precision is necessary when discussing such horrifying events.It's the subtle distinction between considering certain acts to be satanic as truly horrifying, versus Satanic as in devil worship.

Now we are exposed to acts that are not only profoundly cruel, but contain elements associated with Satanic ritual. When reviewing the facts, we have to be aware that there is a possibility of connection between act and ritual without jumping to the conclusion that act signifies ritual.. at least until the body of evidence is undeniable.To immediately accuse certain acts of being truly Satanic is as great a folly as dismissing this possibility. I believe that's what we're looking at here.

I've been hanging round reading a lot of alternative news stuff since 911, which, (as with a lot of people) shocked me out of a kind of torpor. I'd been an activist when younger, but after Thatcher and Blair, there seemed almost no point.

Re. the Ripper, it just so happens I used to read a lot of stuff on the Casebook Jack the Ripper site when I was doing some (unrelated) work on one of the more peripheral 'suspects'. It's an excellent site and I recommend it to you Dreams End. There are maps galore there and a mass of info so spend a while there and see if you find any answers.

Having read up quite a lot on it, I feel there is likely NOT any kind of conspiracy effect in the Ripper, aside from the strange effect of expectation in creating reality. That is to say, as soon as the press created a name 'Jack the Ripper' after Annie Chapman's especially nasty murder, maybe they made it inevitable that someone, or a group of someones would come along and fill that role. It's an object lesson that the role of observer is also that of creator, which maybe puts a more proactive spin on the old saying 'look on the bright side'!

I try not to write on these topics because much that falls into the same boat as magic as falls into the 'those who know, don't say, and those who say, don't know' category. That being said:

i) 'spiritual forces' can only enter 'vacuums' of a sort. This has a serious implication for us: even should the demonic cabal, as it were, be defeated outright, following its defeat the enormous vacuum created will be a tempting target for all sorts of 'spiritual forces', none of whom should be trusted without prior investigation. Thus, for a meaningful victory a replacement weltanschauung must already be found and held ready waiting in the wings. ii) what has enabled the western world to be taken over by a demonic cabal in the first place is the progressive breakdown of familial and village level tradition; what is important here is less the specifics of a particular tradition than the fact that a well developed tradition collectively fills in the gaps into which the demonic might enter. iii) a rough guideline for whether some belief system falls within the 'satanic' or not is whether or not increased or decreased responsibility is held to correlate with increasing ability; thus 'do what thou wilt' is more 'satanic' than 'do what thou wilt provided ye readily accept the consequences thereof'. religions that offer scapegoats and political systems that grant reduced liability together with increased authority are both more satanic than their inverses.

it's so weird to see this post up here today, since this weekend i went on a big data gathering spree relating to prisoner abuse for a response to the scotus nom. i wanted to get a better understanding of the psychological mechanism of the torturers -- Milgram, Standford experiment-type stuff. sociologically, the question has to be asked, who is being made a "slave" with prisoner abuse. the prisoner or the troop? both?

in following my train of thought i came across some of the sites that deal with satanic ritual abuse, specifically kathleen sullivan's stuff i need to dash off and read pan's stuff now...

but the reason for this is here:http://johnsoncity.blogspot.com/2005/07/oconnor-i-learned-most-from-thurgood.html

in the comments section of this thread. i think we are somewhat being forced into an infantile state of helplessness. we -- us, the troops, the prisoners. like abuse victims, we can't count on "father" (in the form of JUSTICE) to come to our aid. we are being made into slaves usiing pre-enlightenment good vs evil kind of conditioning. maybe bush dances naked at the bohemian grove. it wouldn't surprise me. just knowing how frats were on my crappy college campus, i have no problem imagining skull and bones to take themselves more seriously. i have no problem picturing bush being the first in line for his ritual spanking -- first in line to mete out the "justice" when he becomes upper classman. or made or whatever the fuck.

to me, it's about the slavery and any time anyone wants to jump in and lend a hand on this fractured thought, please feel free.

Things are bad now, and the balance of good and evil is heavily concentrated towards the side of wickedness. The wolves have only begun to amass upon the edge of the woods, pulling prey sheep on their dark days, one by one into the darkness. But has anyone contemplated what's in store for the general populace on JUNE 6, 2006 (6-6-6)?

"Religions that offer scapegoats and political systems that grant reduced liability together with increased authority are both more satanic than their inverses."

That's the most interesting argument in favor of democracy I've seen in a long time.

It also reminds me of a question I've been nursing for a long while -- whether modern democracy and modern science were both deliberately "planted" by individuals within the 17th-18th century occult context as a deliberate means of furthering human development.

If so, the fact that both are presently under assault from the same direction takes on greatly increased urgency.

"The truth is out there...way out there" is what I have come to believe. It is up to each seeker to decide for themselves when to stop. For some, that is where the path to truth leads out of the realm of modern-Western consensual reality. Once you cross that point, credibility to that community is lost. I'm not sure myself if sanity is threatened more by going too far or by going too fast, but I suppose that is a risk as well, at least in the sense that sanity is defined in the "real world". To some of us, these risks are insufficient to hold us back completely. Caution is certainly warranted by anyone who find themselves in unfamiliar territory, however.

To Anonymous@2:10PM, I have had the same ideas as you expressed in points i) and ii) for some time. Point iii) is very interesting and I will definitely think about that more.

To Anonymous@4:29PM, I imagine a lot of thought has gone into that very topic. I would be especially wary of goings on in the 60606 area code of Chicago. Correspondence seems to be a component of ritual logic, but maybe my theory is too unsophisticated. This is a new art for me.

18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

Interesting, the headlines I have seen on MSNBC internet main news page the last 2 or 3 days. One has been: "Ordered Chaos", (about the Egyptian bombing).Today they have a video headed as, "Dog Days Here to Stay?" which if you think about it is completely pointless as a question about the passing of an annual season, which of course is never here to stay. So why ask that question? Is it really infering, "WoT here to stay?"

And now Bush is apparently planning on putting Bolton in place while Congress takes a nap. After all, the agenda must go on.

It's a striking characteristic of early 20th century occult horror stories that all the supernatural powers and entities appear to be dark ones".

Hey. I was thinking the same thing, surely not all the contemporary magicians are kiddy fiddling narcopoliticos ?

yo creo que no. je je.

13. OCCULT WAR - WEAPONS OF THE OCCULT WAR

"And now we come to one of the most interesting chapters of the book, in which Evola questions whether the various areas of human existence have been affected by higher forces. In other words, by those of the supernatural or occult dimension. The decline of the West, in particular, is said to be a direct result of the hidden forces at work. Evola explains: "The occult war is a battle that is waged imperceptibly by the forces of global subversion, with means and in circumstances ignored by current historiography. The notion of occult war belongs to a three-dimensional view of history: this view does not regard as essential the two superficial dimensions of time and space (which include causes, facts, and visible leaders) but rather emphasises the dimension of depth, or the ‘subterranean’ dimension in which forces and influences act in a decisive manner, and which, more often than not, cannot be reduced to what is merely human, whether at an individual or a collective level." This seems clear enough. Indeed, the current of which Evola speaks transcends the governmental domain and concerns the forces which lie far beyond the purely exoteric plane. By "subterranean," Evola is alluding to the fact that such activity takes place not within the human subconscious, but as part of a deliberate plan which has been meticulously formed by capable and intelligent agents of subversion. But this third dimension should not be seen as some kind of ridiculous or convenient fantasy designed to account for the erosion of Tradition, it is a concept which is fully steeped in reality. Catholics regard the decline of traditional values and the onset of liberalism and moral decline as part of a divinely orchestrated process, although Evola believes that such a view need not rely on abstract metaphysics or theology. He cites the Classical idea in which the forces of the cosmos are waged against the forces of chaos: "To the former corresponds everything that is form, order, law, spiritual hierarchy, and tradition in the highest sense of the word; to the latter correspond every influence that disintegrates, subverts, degrades, and promotes the predominance of the inferior over the superior, matter over spirit, quantity over quality."

" question I've been nursing for a long while -- whether modern democracy and modern science were both deliberately "planted" by individuals within the 17th-18th century occult context as a deliberate means of furthering human development"

I suppose it`s back to LIHOP or MIHOP (with intentions or not). Neal Stephensons book "Quicksilver" offers a historical-documental view of the war for the scientific paradigm.

...from the wikipedia entry for the book

"Alchemy in Quicksilver

The conflict between a traditional religious and a scientific worldview is tied to the issue of alchemy, which in Quicksilver is presented as a search for the essential nature of a thing that underlies its material nature. If such an essential nature exists, it gives rise to a thing's identity. This is in contrast to a purely mechanistic view of nature, in which a thing's identity is determined purely by mechanical or material factors. By proving the existence of these essences, the alchemist proves the world cannot be reduced to crude materialism. Since one of those things presumed to have an essence is humanity, alchemy promises to prove the existence of a higher, non-material soul, and thus by implication the existence of God."quicksilver (wikipedia)

I am supposing that the real invisible war is scientific materialism vs. relativity.

To build on Starroute's comment. Everything in universe has balance. life only exsists due to balance. Good and Evil, Black magic/ White magic, If one exsists then so does the other. It cannot be possible to have one side, there would be no reason to have one side. I guess this brings hope. However this may be Evils time to prevail after all there is also no reason for opposition unless its oppositon is in some sort of control. If good started then evil may finish......

"As long as you're wondering what they're going to take from you next, you're overlooking the fact that they've already taken everything that matters. The reduction procedure: the reducing of free and illuminated beings to victims, witnesses, accomplices, survivors.

It's all so shocking and compelling and urgent: you need to do something! And maybe you do, but if all you do is react to the stimulus, you're being conditioned all the same.

While you're looking around for the 'real magick' while you're ducking what you think is the gun. The real magick is a forgone conclusion. It's been done. They've got you."

I really have problems trying to see the world in terms of any sort of simple, eternal duality. For me, it's far more a process of thesis, antithesis, synthesis -- repeated over and over with many variations and cross-breedings.

Take 18th century Freemasonry as one starting point. In England, with its relatively open social structure, membership in a masonic lodge was almost universally accessible and broadly egalitarian. An aristocrat had no more clout than a manual laborer. The principle of one man, one vote by which the lodges were governed became one of the foundations of American-style democracy.

In Germany, on the other hand, where the social structure was far more closed and -- especially in the Catholic states -- often heavily repressive, Freemasonry and its offshoots became secretive, conspiratorial, and authoritarian. Think Bavarian Illuminati (the real ones.) Or Skull and Bones, which was explicitly based on the German model. Or the Nazis, who came out of this background of occult, romaticist, and nationalist secret societies.

But then again, there were also the German political secret societies of the early 1800's, which combined a conspiratorial and authoritarian mode of operation with aspirations towards the modernizing and rationalizing reforms of Western Europe. Karl Marx came out of those.

So you get the three most powerful intellectual currents of the 20th century all coming out of a single dynamic impetus in the early 1700's, an impetus which is not yet done working its way through our culture.

I don't see much room for good vs. evil in that sort of interplay. What I do see is this world as a sort of incubating medium, into which occasionally a drop of some transformative substance is let fall. The transformations which result, their interactions and cross-fertilizations, the varying ways in which human greed and human idealism are triggered by a recognition of higher possibilities -- these things are the real stuff of what we commonly call history and imagine to be the outcome of purely mundane forces.

Boy, this article, and the message board discussion of the ONA, really triggered some stuff around my house. I emailed the article to my 60ish cousin who just LOVES the Harry Potter books and recommends them to her grandkids. My email explained why I find the success of Potter very creepy (mediocre book series becomes international phenom...makes you wonder what kind of spell JK Rowling did, eh?) as well as finding the content creepy.

After I sent off the email and was trying to read the linked discussion board page, my puter began to act up. I was repeatedly dumped offline; even when I disconnected the modem cord and closed my browser, I couldn't use the phone because it was connected to the Net! Except it wasn't. So I couldn't email the board discussion to my cousin, or call her. This went on for *40 minutes*.

This is not the first time I have had something like this happen. A friend who is an SRA survivor and I were discussing spiritual discernment in dealing with demonic entities, and FOUR PHONES cut out--both of our cells and both of our landlines. (I can hear the 'coincidence theoriests' now...but this never has happened to me with her or anyone else. However, she and I frequently are disconnected, or one of our phones dies, whenever we start discussing how to deal with dark forces.)

Yes, they're there, and they don't like it when you try to wise someone up who is duped, like my cousin, into thinking it's harmless to have millions of kids take a young witch as their hero. I have no idea what her reaction will be--she is a New Ager, raised Catholic but has rejected it...one of those people who believes in angels but not demons and thinks the universe is full of good spirits, but 'badness' is just human shortcomings. As with most people like that, they can't explain why then there is so much horrible suffering in the world, when all it takes is a positive attitude and an invocation to the goddess for all to be sweetness, light and prosperity.

God forgive me, but I wish I could take people like that and 'magically' send them to a gas chamber at Auschwitz as the Zyklon-B starts spritzing, or to Babi Yar to face the guns, or to Abu Ghraib to be in the hands of a grinning American kid with a program of degradation to break their minds. Once I whisked them back to the present I'd ask where their angels and happy talk have gone.

Cassandra: I can't buy into the "Harry Potter leads to Satan" idea. If there isn't room in a child's life for magic, enchantment, and imaginative adventure stories, then I pity the poor child who is constrained by that rigid mental straitjacket. If that line of reasoning is followed to its logical end, Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, and anything beyond mundane Dick and Jane stories are paths to evil. It's a recipe for disaster to equate imaginative fancy with real-life evil.

I remember being "doomed to Hell" for playing Dungeons and Dragons, after all.

Magick is, in its most basic definition, the technology of energy manipulation. The simple way to separate the good magick from the bad is this: is it aimed at promoting the greater good, or is it aimed at personal enrichment? Does it give back, or does it only take?

Witches can be good or bad or anywhere on the spectrum in-between. Ditto ritual magicians. Ditto practitioners of tantra, qigong, or any other energetic work.

Just as advanced qigong masters can heal with qi, the less scrupulous can harm. Some shamans heal and others kill. Energy itself is neutral -- like a hammer, it can be used to build a house or to smash someone's skull.

There are technicians of good and technicians of evil. The technology isn't the problem -- it's how the tools are used.

In 1994 the wicked old witch of Windsor cast an evil spell on my family and me. In 2002 I broke that spell, only to have the Knights of the Prince of Lies deny there was ever such a spell in the first place. When you tell me this decision is not subject to appeal you speak a higher truth than you understand, for this bad faith cheating by the Council of Europe invites only violence in return.

Quoting myself on 3 December 2003

How to cast a spell? You can do it if (i) people do not know you exist and (ii) you have powers that people do not know exist.

The upshot is that only the victim and the perpetrators know that the spell exists.

Which brings us back to Christopher, as quoted by Stephen Knight.

There is no defence against an evil that only the victim and the perpetrators know exists.

"...in the comments section of this thread. i think we are somewhat being forced into an infantile state of helplessness. we -- us, the troops, the prisoners. like abuse victims, we can't count on "father" (in the form of JUSTICE) to come to our aid. we are being made into slaves usiing pre-enlightenment good vs evil kind of conditioning...." - brook

I want to think a bit about brook's observation. The fear that we are helpless unless we can count on JUSTICE is a fear of mine. I am not sure, but I did not interprete brook as claiming the comments here were making her helpless. I would think the exposure of what people are thinking, and the reasons they have for their suspicions, can only make some space for Justice. My understanding would be that, there are facts on the ground and arguments in the air, in the books, which make it difficult to believe there's JUSTICE in this world. I would agree that given what's going on, it seems there could not be JUSTICE, it seems we are helpless.

I have not thought about this for a long time. My first thought at the moment, however, is that the issue for anyone interested in occult forces would have to be how Justice could be obtained, whether in this world, or some other.

I am not one to look for occult explanations for the injustices around. Though, occult thinking may figure into what people do. I am more interested in addressing the arguments involved. So, for example, anonymous claimed first off,

"...this rant to say: it's high time we all try to clear the mess of our minds, and make a difference. Political and social action only goes so far. We have to shed light on our inner workings, mainly anger aggression greed the need to feast upon others and all the primal urges. Thats what feed demons in all dimensions. If we recognize it, not intellectually mind you, it slowly loses strength...."

I would agree that political and social action has its limitations, but I would be just as skeptical that tending to our "inner workings" would accomplish more. Simply, I don't think good judgement comes any more from good moral character, or cleaned up spiritual workings, as it would from revelations from God. You'd still have to have some kind of an argument that would justify listening to the recommendations from the supposed inner or outer experts.

The fear that there is no justice, or that justice cannot be obtained depends on some kind of argument. I think it's a mistaken argument, and one that we can expose. The upshot of exposing the argument that justice isn't possible is that brook should have hope instead of a feeling that all is lost.

It would seem the point of considering things in terms of demons, good and evil, or occult not quite understood powers is to determine what is really going on and to ease suffering. Shouldn't that be the work of any "white magician" worth their salt.

"Anyone who is having trouble with psychic disturbance should immediately discontinue all occult practices and should exchange his habitual meditations for the prayers of his childhood, or New Thought methods. It is no time to open up the psychic centres when there is astral trouble. The thing to do in such cases is to get back on to the physical plane and stop there resolutely.... If the victim of an occult attack concentrates on mundane things he is a heart-breaking proposition for any sorcerer. What is the sorcerer to do if, at the time when he is operating the Black art, his victim is at the local cinema roaring at the antics of Charlie Chaplin?"

Professor Pan, in my experience it's Crowleyans who use the spelling 'magick' and they are black magicians, so I tend to find your post special pleading for precisely the forces to which I am opposed.

If you don't know the difference between Tolkien's cosmology, in which the heroes are humble hobbits who learn through the assumption of responsibility and through suffering not magical (or magickal) initiation how to defend what is precious to them, and a book about kids studying to be witches, I'd say you weren't very bright. But you DO know the difference, don't you? You may fool the others but you don't fool me.

There is no such thing as WHITE MAGIC. Sorry. It doesn't matter if you think your spell is 'for' someone else's good. Attempting to affect the actions of beings with free will is evil. The goal is coercive.

Of course there are powers of Good. And they have one cardinal rule: they never, ever override the free will of any being. IF a being is open to their power (which some call 'grace') and pure in spirit what might be called miracles can be worked through them, just as on the dark side a being who opens itself up to the power of the Dark Ones can work evil. But the power does not reside in the magician, or in the saint. The power resides with ultimate Evil and ultimate Good.

Compare the uses of what might be termed 'magic' by the wizards in LOTR (book not film, while I'm not a Peter Jackson hater he made some changes I don't believe JRRT would have approved), Gandalf, Saruman and Sauron. Gandalf RARELY uses magic and when he does it NEVER is to influence human beings, in fact, his mission is to KINDLE the hearts of men (hence he wears the Ring of Fire), not to perform magic on their behalf (when he lights the way in Moria with his staff, or sends fire to kill the Wargs, he is not affecting the will of others). Saruman on the other hand abandons his mission (to be Curunir, the Man of Skill/Knowledge) and becomes a sorceror. Sauron of course fell long before LOTR begins when he became a servant of Melkor, a Luciferian figure (as is Sauron himself.)

And again, compare Gandalf, who is wholly Good, with the witch-kids at Hogwarts. First of all, what is a WITCH? And please--don't throw me all the new age crapola about Wicca. A witch is someone who summons otherworldly powers to influence the behavior of others. And that is evil, whether it calls itself white or not (and why wouldn't black call itself white, when it can fool so many with that simple change of label?)

We don't need 'white magic'. What we need is purity of soul through which the GOOD can manifest itself--and not by miracles (though they do happen, they've happened to me), but by Right Action.

Which brings me to the attitude of all major religions about magicians--which is, SHUN THEM. It is certainly true that saints of various faiths can manifest what the Hindus call the siddhis. One of these is levitation and that a talent not limited to Hindus--supposedly St. Joseph of Cupertino had to be held down at Mass or he'd float up and distract everyone.

The power of Good comes from the Ultimate Good whether you want to call that God or not, whether you want to see the emissaries of Good as angels (who are more often messengers than miracle workers, by the way.)

I like to think of it this way. Imagine a ship trying to navigate a vast ocean on a planet on which that ocean is the home of two wind currents. One carries a ship from one side of the ocean to the other safely. The other leads it into storms, near reefs, through the realm of the kraken, into the doldrums and then destroys it in a cyclone.

Someone with no sailing experience hoists their sail and goes with the wind, not asking which wind it is. However, it soon becomes noticeable even to one who is not a sailor that the wind they have caught is leading them into some very bad situations. The opportunity is there to change the tack and go with the other wind. Those who are wise (by which I mean have spiritual discernment) will wait for the good wind...the bad one may be quicker but it leads only to destruction.

Obviously, I'm a dualist; a monist would say there is only one wind which can be used for good or evil. However, both would agree that if a person seeking to use the wind wishes to end up with the good outcome--safe and sound at the port on the other side--that person needs to have a Good intention--purity of heart.

At bottom, the longing for 'magic' is immature. It's a child wanting an easy solution. Those who practice magic are spiritual children, even if powerful, they are great big children.

Do you want Good to triumph? Align your soul, your Will, with the Good, and then be prepared to put your shoulder to the wheel and WORK to make it happen. "God helps those who help themselves" is not a meaningless cliche. In spiritual things as well as material, short cuts and tricks eventually lead to grief.

Unless you have known someone on whom a magic spell has rebounded, you don't have a clue what magic is. Here is the clearest example I know, though only one with which I am familiar FIRST HAND: 25 years ago a friend who liked to play around with Crowleyan 'magick' did a spell to get $40,000 to move across the country. Not long after that, his mother, father and aunt were killed in a fiery car crash.

The amount of his inheritance check?

You know the answer.

$40,000.

Read "Faust." Nobody wins a bargain with the Dark side.

One last thing about Potter: Consider the question why are there no white wizards, then ask, why make the children-heroes student witches? Why not make them white wizard apprentices?

Rowling fans are disingenuous when they defend the series by saying a young reader will learn no actual spells. Spells are easy enough to come by! What's dangerous is teaching children that the answer to life's problems is to be a WITCH like Harry, and not a servant of the Good like Frodo.

What is magic(k)? How do you tell which forces are magical? Those that bring about bad consequences?

What would you say to someone who practices magic, yet receives no bad consequences? Do you think no such people exist? What an extremely narrow view! I am sure I can find you some, and probably on this very discussion board. Do you presume to know the effects of every "spell", every religion, and every force in existence? If so, you seem to know an awful lot for someone who recommends not even reading fictional work about such topics.

And incidentally, have you read the Potter books? They certainly don't teach that magic is the solution to anything, or that it makes anything easier. Harry and co. have all the same problems, if not more, than your average kids.

Feel free to steer clear of anything that seems scary to you, but I hope you won't mind when the rest of us actually examine a subject before passing judgement. Your intuition works for you alone, after all. I would just like to point out that you are a long way from convincing me, or anyone not already of like mind, with your current communicative strategy. Attacking people for the way they spell a word doesn't help, either.

You might be surprised at how close our beliefs are. The differences are mostly semantic.

I use the word "magick" to differentiate it from conjuring, or stage magic, not because I have any particular affinity for Crowley. I perform magic, and read Tarot cards for others, yet I have never practiced "magick" in the Crowleyan sense.

I fully understand the differences between the fictional works of Tolkien and the fictional works of Rowling. And I also understand that both are works of imaginative fiction, written with the intention to entertain and uplift.

As a kid, I read every book written by Stephen King and every book on the occult I could find in my public library. I watched every monster movie on tv and created my own monster makeup (and not just for Halloween). I played Dungeons and Dragons for hours on end with a cabal of nerds. I messed around with Ouija Boards, automatic writing, self-hypnosis, and spent lots of time wandering around an old graveyard near my home. Some of my relatives warned my mother -- "That kid is going to be warped if you let him read/watch that stuff!" It turns out that they were right. But I'm warped in a much different way than they expected.

I became an anti-nuclear activist when I was 13. I decided to follow the "Bodhisattva Vow" when I was 15, and I've tried to stick to it (with limited success, but hey, you gotta try!). I started an environmental organization in my 20s, and testified standing on a tree stump when lumber groups wanted to log State forests. And I regularly do the "WORK" of aligning myself with good (as you suggest) by marching for miles, in often shitty weather, to testify against war and oppression and shout truth to power.

I'm not bragging, just sayin.' I don't think I'm special at all -- there are plenty of people much more committed and ethical than I am. I know many of them personally.

If your argument was correct, I'd be a corrupt occultist bathing in blood and sacrificing infants to my Dark Lord.

White Magick is applying energy and creativity to aid others and advance the evolution of the human spirit. You don't need a wand, or a cauldron, or a pentacle. A kiss can be magick, and so can a letter or a painting or a blog.

I saw the line of kids waiting for the latest Harry Potter book to go on sale at my local megabookstore chain. They were incredibly excited, even giddy -- about a book. You know what? That's real magick. If turning kids onto reading is evil, then I'll sign up for Hogwarts in a heartbeat.

I'm assuming that those of you who are defending magic, and advancing jejune apologias for it (like Potter being 'good' because it makes kids read), and flattering yourselves that I am afraid of, rather than contemptuous of, it, are aware that your arguments are for the benefit of others who may read your posts and not for me. I know what is behind it and I am not able to be fooled. Unfortunately, people have to learn by experience, so those who genuinely don't see the dangers will go on not seeing them until something happens to them, at which point they will or won't wise up. As for the deliberate deceivers...they don't call Satan the Father of Lies for nothing, do they?

I've seen the rage of Evil unmasked. It really hates those who see through it. I know that. I've been attacked to the point of oppression, and been the object of a curse.

Unlike many who were baptized as infants, I was six; my mother converted me from Episcopalianism to Catholicism and back in the day they rebaptized you. I am no longer a practicing Catholic, but in 2002 I renewed my baptismal vows, and here is my favorite part:

Q. Do you renounce Satan?R. I do renounce him.Q. And all his works and all his pomps?R. I do renounce them.

That clear enough to all you Wiccans, pagans, white magicians, New Agers and freethinkers?

Please pardon the long post but I think it is very pertinent to the discussion. It is part of something I wrote for a survivors' magazine a couple of years ago. I have been on the very sharp receiving end of Magic and believe I can talk with some authority on the issue.

Debating White Vs Black Magic is as useful as debating the difference between Republicans and Democrats. It's an artificial difference designed primarily to allow the SYSTEM to continue which is the real problem. The same applies to MAGIC (or Power), which in reality is merely magical thinking. The following is personal and, in this context somewhat analogous, so please pardon those aspects:- Jim

The awful truth is that Power is attractive to all of us. The desire to raise ourselves above our peers is usually readily seen in ourselves and others. What is less obvious is that warm fuzzy that comes over us when dealing with (helping) others who are, or perceive they are, in a weak position relative to us. If someone is in this position day in and day out, it is very unlikely their perception of themselves and the world will escape distortion. As a victim of ritual abuse, I have experienced much harm from both these approaches from others and I have unwittingly caused harm to others in the same way.

But how does this corruption work on me and others?

The Serenity Prayer of Alcoholics Anonymous is a good place to start:- "God grant me the Serenity To accept the things I cannot change, The Courage to change the things I can, And the Wisdom to know the difference."

This prayer recognises that there is a limit to our power and that it is difficult to perceive this limit. When we think we have power over things we do not, then we are deluded and almost everyone suffers from it to some degree. So by extension we are all deluded in our view of the world. We are not seeing reality. Little wonder things are a mess!

When someone in charge of an organisation is seen by him/herself and by others as having great power, everyone is mistaken. It is only the willingness (witting or unwitting) of everyone "below" him or her to employ their own little bit of power for the benefit of the "powerful" that makes anything happen. Even a maximum security prison will only work if it has everyones' co-operation. If the "powerful" thinks he or she is making it happen, then they are engaging in what psychologists call "magical thinking" - delusion. And this is the trap. We become enamoured with our own power and importance which is illusory. We set off on the trail to "fairyland" or more correctly some sort of "hell". This is a world that is not real and so is unsustainable and inevitably falls down. Ask any healing addict. Look at any world conquerer. Look at the current one in the making. So many lies to patch the holes in the previous lies. It's all make-believe and this is why telling the truth is such a threatening, radical and revolutionary thing to do.

Magical thinking and it's consequences is something I experienced at the hands of the cult when I was a child. Intuitively, I recognised it as madness even then. Today, everytime I hear or see the news, I see and hear people engaged in and being supported in magical thinking. This, of course, sets off PTSD responses in me but it has also led me to understand that the satanic cult that abused me is not aberrant in the world but rather a more extreme example of it. This is why it seems to fit right in; why this monsterous evil seems to be protected somehow; to be able to hide so well. It is not at odds with the "world".

What to do?

I do not know how to change the world. If I did, I would almost certainly be deluded! For myself, though, I have found that the philosophy/theology behind the Twelve Step Program to be very helpful and the Christianity of Jesus in the Gospels also helps to remind me of the fact that I did not make myself, that I do not know what gives me life right now, that I do not know how the universe works, that I have no real power to truly create things. Francis Bacon said that all we can do as far as creation is concerned is put things together and to take them apart. All other processes are a function of the ingredients themselves which we did not make. When I can keep these things in my mind, it helps me to be a little more humble, a little less arrogant, to see reality and my position in it a little better and to avoid some of the disasters brought about through pride or hubris.

It helps me focus on what is truly important and ongoing - love and compassion. Their opposites, hate and power, are doomed to destruction eventually through their own nature. It cannot be otherwise. Power weilded over others against their will or interests can only lead to destruction. All this gives me confidence that God knows what He is doing even if I don't. As an aside, it seems to me that the more sane I become the more offensive evil/insanity is to me. How offensive must it be to God who is sanity itself?

I have tried to demonstrate a mental process which I believe lies at the heart of our experience of reality and perhaps our reason for being. The great challenge is whether we choose good or evil, sanity or insanity, reality or unreality, creativity or destruction for ourselves. This is the only real power we have; the power to choose - freewill. The rest is up to God - thankfully!

Well I think black magick isn't dangerous because Satan actually exists, but because of the followers of black magick believing that he exists - and thus they act accordingly. Like everyone else, they create their own reality, the rug they're standing on. It's just that they have a sh*tty taste of colour.

And unfortunately, their mere existence seems to mess up the worldview of good-natured, but religiously inclined people - by making them preach against a phantom enemy. Looks to me as if this only solidifies the magick of the dark guys. Taking them serious and devoting time to them is something they don't deserve.

I'm sorry that you've suffered, but I think you are misguided when you attribute malice and sinister purpose to anyone who disagrees with you. And when you attack others, and label them without listening to what they say, your arguments are not going to gain a lot of traction.

Try being less accusatory, and listening without preconception and bias. You may have had bad experiences with people who practice magick, but that doesn't mean everyone who practices magick is evil. And while you may find your religious beliefs to be vital to your well-being, those who don't share your beliefs don't deserve to be vilified as sinister villains intent on deceiving the unwary.

starroute 4:20....My appoligies if I offended you with my comment. I always take a scientific route for analyzing. Strat with the basics and work up. I agree, with all the details you listed it is much more complicated than just Good vs Evil. But why do these evil characters exsist? and for what reasons do they think the way they do. Is it primal and the stongest will prevail? There will be good folks like us who don't want these people to control and oppress us and there are others who cheer this on ( evil ) I guess that depends on what side of the fence you fall on.

I don't think there's any "right" answer as far as interpreting this stuff -- not within the limits of human understanding, anyway. But I do believe that certain interpretations are more likely to evoke useful action while others tend to make people panic and run in circles.

My own model for understanding begins with two premises: (1) There is no real evidence for the existence of "evil" in an ontological sense. (2) And yet there are people and deeds that might strike the casual observer as "evil," and their existence and nature require some explanation.

My own explanation -- and this is merely a working model that I only half believe in myself -- is that the primary distinction is not between good and evil or light and dark but between higher and lower.

There's the material universe -- not exactly fallen in the old medieval sense, but certainly low, unenlightened, and animalistic. And then there is higher reality which is (for whatever reasons and through whatever mechanisms you wish to imagine it) attempting to colonize and elevate materiality to something like its own level.

In the words of the Waterboys' song, "Strange Boat" --

We're riding in a strange carWe're following a strange starWe're climbing on the strangest ladder That was ever there to climb

We're living in a strange timeworking for a strange goalWe're living in a strange timeworking for a strange goalWe're turning flesh and body into soul

The tricky part is that we humans have a foot in both worlds. As higher beings, we recognize this ongoing work and are eager to become part of it and transcend our current situation. But at the same time, as lower beings, we may perceive it as alien and threatening and attempt to shun it. Or, even worse, we may accept its existence but attempt to subordinate it to the purely material goals of survival, reproduction, and gross power.

That is where the "evil" part comes in. To the extent I can identify "evil" at all, it is entirely as a perversion of good -- as a recognition and evocation of higher forces but solely with the intention of subordinating them to lower ends. Sometimes the mockery is very explicit, as in the Black Mass, at other times more generic.

And, human beings being human beings, most often we see nothing even remotely resembling either pure good or pure evil, but rather a murky mixture of powers, motivations, and accomplishments on a variety of levels at once.

Bravo! Wise and well said. I have been trying to articulate to people that the power that BushCo holds is not inherent in those people--they're evil but also pretty dumb--but in US who let them get away with it like a bunch of hypnotized rabbits.

Professor Pan:

I don't attribute malice to people who disagree with me. Lots of people disagree with me about a lot of things. That's what makes horse races, and all that. However, you have no right to tell me what I should and shouldn't think of magic(k). You have the right to dabble in it, I have the right to say that I think anyone who does is at worst evil and at best deluded. If that bothers you, that's your problem, not mine. You're not going to change my mind with your officious insistence that you are a 'good' person or that there is 'good' magic(k). As to the former, I don't know you from a box of Post Toasties. As to the latter, as I said, if you're grandstanding for other people, by all means grandstand away, that's called "Freedom of Speech." If you're seriously thinking you are going to change my mind, you're wasting your time and mine.

I heard an interview with Robert Anton Wilson recently. When asked what advice he'd give to a young person interested in consciousness expansion via western kabbalistic magick systems like The Golden Dawn or Thelema, he stated emphatically that jumping into something like that can easily make someone crazy. He suggests a neophyte would be much better off gaining an understanding of General Symantics and NLP long before considering magick. I think in Jewish tradition, if someone wants to study kabbalah they are supposed to over 40 and have worked through the torah several times.

I only started reading Wilson recently, and find alot of the things he has to say are really inspiring. And funny. I really don't know enough about Crowley to have an opinion of him as a person, and I doubt I'll ever get around to finding out what his beliefs were.