CapArms Question of the Day: Do Anti-Gunners Believe in Evil?

“Two teens, each of them not 130 pounds, walked down Troy Street toward 47th and stopped next to a van where a man was talking through the window to his girlfriend and kids,” chicagotribune.com reports. “The weather was beautiful and they talked of going to the park. Up the street, a few kids were out front with their parents and grandparents.” And then . . .

One of the teens, a boy in dark gray and a black hat, asked the man what he was “about,” or what gang he belonged to, according to police and several witnesses.

“I’m with my kids,” the man told him.

The teen turned to the other and said, “Shoot that n—–, shoot that n—–.”

“I’m with my kids,” the man repeated. His girlfriend made the same plea: “He’s with his kids.”

But the other teen, who looked the younger of the two, raised a pistol and shot the man in the forehead. The man fell to the ground and the teen stood over him and fired two more times, police and witnesses said.

Can anyone — including Americans who support civilian disarmament — seriously believe that the killers were “misunderstood” youth? Can anyone believe that these two teens would have been upstanding citizens if only they’d had economic security and a good education?

Or do gun control advocates simply deny existence of evil (however you define it) and look the other way, ignoring the entire question of evil in men’s hearts to blame an inanimate object?

142 Responses to CapArms Question of the Day: Do Anti-Gunners Believe in Evil?

This is why I continue to believe in the death penalty. I know the founder of this site has severe heartburn with it, but to me the purpose of prison is to rehab men who can be saved. These two clowns can’t be saved. They, and many like them, are lost and can never return to society, so why keep them around to abuse the poor slobs brought in on burglary or for selling Mary Jane? Guys like this form or support prison gangs, and they make it very hard for the whole rehab thing to work out.

I totally support the death penalty, including reinstating public hangings. And none of this dragging things out. These two should have been publically hung the next morning without a last meal or anything. Prison is only ‘criminal finishing school’ where they learn to be ‘better’ criminals. How many times do we see ‘early release’ of a pile of scum that murders someone in the first week out of prison. Need to get some ropes and empty those prisons.

Due process is to prevent abuse of power. Don’t think about cases like this. Think about what your average anti-gun prosecutor would do if they had no restraints. Think what big city mayors could do if they could just direct the police to jail people without having to prove anything.

Well said, Carlos. It’s sad that so many pro-gun folks on this site can’t see the sad irony of their proposing that other constitutional protections be eliminated. It’s the same specious reasoning used by anti-gunners.

Due process only means you wait several minutes or several hours for the police to come and arrest someone. This is a fact of life. It would be much better if people in slave states and slave cities be allowed to carry (hand gun or long gun) and immediately deal with their local problems.

I’d politely ask that JWT of TTAG would grace us with his reasoning of why he does not believe in the death penalty… especially in reference to these pieces of human garbage in the title story. I’ll be checking back occasionally for the response, thank you.

I will speak for myself, not JWT. I worked in a prison for a time. I do not like the death penalty. I do not trust the .gov with that power. The court system is part of the .gov that we here at this site profess an almost universal dislike for.

Do we believe that in this one thing, the death penalty, they’d get it right?

jwm
The government kills I think everyday. It called police shooting someone. TTAG has covered many government killings that don’t seem correct. Th government (police) killing several motorcycle gang members in Texas for example. I have no trouble having the government kill someone in a gas chamber as in California or electric chair or hang them in public.
Trust the government? Everyone trust the government because no one is calling for the police to be disarmed. When the three L’s, Libertarians, Liberals and the Left call for the police to be disarmed then we can have a conversation.

I see no moral, logical or ethical justification for the death penalty except in very limited circumstances.

Generally speaking I think we all agree that planting a bullet in someone’s brainbox after they’re no longer a threat is immoral/unethical. It’s only justifiable to continue to employ force as long as the person is a threat. Now, if they happen to die, well tough shit for them, but if they don’t we don’t just give them a coup de grâce when they’re down because we can’t justify doing so legally, morally, ethically or logically.

So, my question is how does that change when the state is involved? How is it acceptable to scoop that person up, medically rehabilitate them, lock them in a cage and then kill them some years down the road? Once they’re in the cage they’re usually no longer a threat to society and therefore we have no more justification for offing them than we would for putting an “anchor shot” in their dome originally.

Killing them when they’re no longer a threat isn’t justice. That’s vengeance. If you do it you’ll be charged with, and probably convicted of murder, so why is the state allowed to do it?

The only rational justification for the death penalty at this point in history is that the person in question can still harm the citizenry from prison (like a gang leader calling the shots and murders and stuff from prison). Given the fact that appeals in DP cases are required and hideously expensive, much more so than life terms in prison, it makes no sense to use the death penalty other than in very, very select circumstances where the person in question can be shown to be a threat to society that cannot be stopped by incarceration.

9, you have made some very, VERY compelling points, both logically and morally. I’m not saying that you’ve changed my mind, but you have definitely given me food for thought in the consideration of my current point of view. Well stated. Thank you.

The death penalty is for retribution not safety or the well-being of society. But, society should not bear the burden of mad dogs, and if given the choice between the state executing a man that can never be trusted in society again or a mob seeking vigilante justice, the prior is preferable.

No, the death penalty is not merely about ‘retribution’. Some people can not be ‘reformed’, ‘saved’, or ‘reasoned with’. They will never repay their debt to society despite EVERYONE being capable of that. The death penalty insures those people don’t hurt anyone else anymore. That’s it.

The problem is, without due process, many innocent people would be dying for crimes they didn’t commit. There are many cases of investigators and prosecutors trying and incarcerating the wrong people. Also, how many folks in the past have been lynched by a mob who WANTED the individual to be the guilty party? Maybe due to prejudice, or simply out of rage. Harper Lee’s “To Kill a Mockingbird” comes to mind.

Cliff, all due respect, but that’s hyperbole, plain and simple. If you mean that shooting someone in self defense also results in avoiding legal entanglements, then sure, that’s kind of (but not really) like a summary execution in the loosest sense of the phrase. If you believe that’s it’s literally the same thing then you’re misstating what the 2nd Amendment is about. Well, you’re doing that anyway, since the 2nd Amendment is just the thing that says the government can’t disarm you and entirely different laws govern the use of force against an attacker.

Again, I’m not trying to be a jerk, but unless you’re just speaking metaphorically, then you’re flatly misstating the effect and purpose of the 2nd Amendment.

I believe in due process. However, I think these two should just be put down like a rabid dog. At least w/the dog its infected w/a disease. These two made a consciences decision to take an innocent life. No rehabilitation! No juvenile court! Just a one way ticket to an ethereal plane that burns!

“I believe in due process, but….” sounds suspiciously similar to “I believe in the Second Amendment, but….”

That is, you don’t believe in jack squat beyond whatever makes you feel good. You’re “pro-gun” just by the random chance that you happen to like guns, not because you have any core principles or that you’ve ever done any serious thinking about these matters.

For crying out loud here, you only “know” anything about this case from what you just read, just now, right here. What value is that??? Not a damn thing. All you know or think you know is based on what some cops on the scene, with whatever biases, deficiencies, and motivations they may or may not have, jotted down in a report based on witness statements, also based on whatever biases, deficiencies, and motivations they may or may not have.

All (only some???) of which gets reported by a reporter with, what? You guessed it! Whatever biases, deficiencies, and motivations he or she may or may not have. On the basis of that worthless foundation, you want to put people down like rabid dogs? You know nothing about the facts of this case, EVEN if the facts of this case actually are exactly as reported here. You just don’t know any of it for a fact. You just know what’s been reported. Ahhh…….NOW you trust the mainstream media 1,000% Interesting.

With due process, which has its own deficiencies, admittedly, you gain myriad advantages toward uncovering the truth and applying real justice. With your rabid dog method, all you have is knee jerk curbside justice and lethal violence against people in response to triple hearsay and with no right to defend themselves. Whatever the facts of the case here, and let’s just assume for the sake of argument that they’re exactly as reported, YOU are the rabid dog who doesn’t know anything for a fact and shouldn’t have any say whatsoever in anyone’s fate. You probably shouldn’t even be allowed to carry a gun.

Didn’t you all know, it was just “the man” that was keeping those precious child-youths down? That if everyone just gave more, lots of “free stuff”, that everyone on Earth would hold hands and sing wonderful, non-confrontational, multicultural songs together? That all humans would then live off of light and air, and bliss would ensue forever? No, you didn’t know? That’s because you’re not a bunch of jackwagon scumbag leftwing politicians, academicians, and “celebrities” who like conning gullible people.

I use the word “evil” sometimes but I think people often attach attributes to that word that are unnecessary.

When you come right down to it, we hide behind society and civilization but we’re really just wild animals with extremely strong tribalistic tendencies that prejudice us against anyone not from “our” group and a capacity for extreme violence. Where people are untempered by society and civilization they pretty well revert back to what we were 300,000 years ago.

So is it “evil”? No, it just is. The real question is what can be done to prevent that lack of socialization and what, if anything, can be done for those who’ve gone to far for lack of a useful society to learn from or for whom socialization just didn’t take.

LOL. Don’t worry PDW. We have you as the very vocal anti-G-d squad to give the other side of the debate. Oh, wait a minute, you don’t debate, you simply attack and use ad hominems against those that believe in a higher power, my bad.

So what’s up with the arrogance of atheists and their hatred of those that believe in a higher power? Atheists track record of blood, and death and tyranny, as evidenced by the G-dless societies of Communist Russia, Communist China, Communist Cuba, Communist Cambodia, among others and their hundreds of millions murdered in the last hundred years, along with the over fifty million murdered of the unborn in the USA, mostly supported by the godless in this country, far outstrips the blood shed from governments under Christian control in the past. The Weather Underground, a Marxist terrorist group in the seventies said that they would have to murder twenty five million Americans that would not be re-educated once their Marxist revolution over threw our government. Fact is, it looks like there is nothing but evil, along with massive amounts of blood, that comes mostly from those that profess a belief in no G-d.

So where is the improvement in society by those that don’t believe in G-d?

I had a reply to answer your question (from my perspective) about society and religion but it was marked as spam and I don’t care enough to edit it all out.

Short version: Religion has killed a ton of people as have other things. Religion is neither good nor bad, it simply is, and it can be used for good or ill. When it amplifies the violent animal inside each of us it is anything but good and you can see that exemplified in the Albigensian Crusade which targeted Cathars, Christians who didn’t acknowledge the supremacy of the Pope, for outright extermination.

To say that society comes from religion is hogwash (society is informed by religion to some degree). To suggest that religious societies are always “good” or that religious people are always moral or ethical is also hogwash. Religion is a double edged sword to be handled with care and blind belief that religion, in any form, is outright “good” is the first step on the path to using it as a moral excuse to do horrible things to other people in the name of God. Militant atheism is no different at it’s core. It’s just another way of separating “them” from “us” and justifying bad behavior.

Not to get into the weeds (again) but the Judeo-Christian ethics that “make Christian nations great” come in large part from Greek (and other) philosophers who lived centuries before Christ and in some cases before Jews were even really Jews. So it’s not all just YHWH and G-d.

Side Note: I’m darkly amused that this thread devolved into exactly what I was talking about in terms of tribalism as quickly as it did.

Well strych9, there is religion, which to me, develops from a personal knowing that each of us is directly connected to some type of mystical and etheric “other” that transcends time and space and encompasses all things as one, and is complete and total unconditional love. Then religion develops, which is the cultural and societal amalgam of all the myths, stories and the construct which is used by any group of people to identify as “the people”, leaving everyone else as the “enemy”.

This then can be used by those in positions of power to manipulate and control the people. But this does not obviate the reality of the personal knowing to this “other” connection that is commonly called “G-d”.

You see, just because this thing called “religion” has been used to control the actions of the masses, does not mean that this connection to a “higher power” is not real.

But if you read carefully what I wrote, I never said, or even implied, that people that believe in “G-d” are more moral or are better people. But when a society rejects the “inspired” word of God of how they should operate as a “Godly” people, chaos, with in a few generations, surely develops.

I agree, some of the early Greeks and their ideas were the roots of our logic and the scientific method. But what is ignored and actively mis-represented by the G-dless left; is that Logic, mathematics, engineering and the scientific method developed with the support of the Catholic church. Galileo was not reprimanded for saying that the earth was not the center of the universe by the catholic church, he was reprimanded by the church for insisting on teaching it as a fact instead of a theory, because he could not prove his theory with the math then available.

Again, the church has been the instigators of various forms of oppression and mass murder over many people over the centuries. The point is that the amount of blood spilled in the name of no god, is at the very least no better, and I say is much greater, than anything initiated by the worst of the inquisitors of the Spanish Inquisition.

So my question is still the same, has there been a demonstrable improvement in personal freedom and a respect for human life by those professing a belief in no god, in the last hundred years?

In the last one hundred years? Not that I know of but you’re picking a pretty short time frame in terms of human history and civilization. I would point out that the Roman Empire fell after embracing the “inspired” word of God and near the end of the Empire things were not going well for it’s citizens in relation to their government.

Also, your statement here isn’t controlling for a single variable. If we look at the USSR as an example religion wasn’t simply discarded, it was purged. The folks who took over in 1917 were not just atheists, they were murderous power hunger assholes who repressed religion from the outset as a political tool to solidify their power. So it’s not a rejection of religion, or however you wish to describe it, by the society but rather a hostile takeover of that society by people who’s political beliefs demanded mass murder and incarceration (Communistic policies lead to this due to the very nature of Communism itself) of the population. The forced jettisoning of religious ideals was a side effect of the type of person/political system that seized control.

Sorry, kind of in reverse order here, the mysticism you speak of I’m not sure I’d call “knowing”. There’s evidence that it’s related to early humans taking natural hallucinogens which, interestingly, produce shockingly consistent experiences across users. There would also seem to be some evidence that this is due to an evolutionary symbiotic relationship between our ancestors and those particular flora.

“Holy Cow”? PDW, I am shocked and dismayed! You should have said, “in the non-sainted name of Marx or Lenin!”. Oh wait, supposedly you are a conservative or some such that hates communism that actually voted for Trump? Really? Wellll, I guess I’ll take your word on that. So we agree that right now, the leftists/ progressives/communists/atheists have the power in the media, in the universities and in the halls of government, not the bible thumpers.

So do I take blame for those christians that voted for Hillary, or voted for left wing causes, or that vote for the right to murder the unborn. Of course not. You see, they are voting on the side of your fellow atheists, that have shown nothing but wanting blood and death and tyranny. But the christians don’t have the power, to force their religious views on people, it is your fellow atheists that have that power right now.

But what about you PDW. We obviously agree that your fellow communist atheists are drunk on blood and tyranny and that my fellow Christians that vote for leftist causes are lost in darkness, as they drink the cup of blood of the innocent. You still have not said how a belief in no god is an improvement, and how it can be very persuasively argued, that those of your fellow atheists that are raging communists, have actually caused more concentrated blood, and death and tyranny than any Christian led government has ever produced in recorded history.

Strych9, I picked the last hundred years because that is the time frame when the belief in no higher power became the norm for large populations and the establishment of godless secularist governments, especially based on communism, became very common. And the end result was massive amount of blood being shed, whether in eastern block countries of those that had survived the womb, or by the legalization of abortion in western Europe and in the US, and the tens of millions of the unborn being murdered.

As for Rome? Christianity became the state religion around 300+AD. Rome, which became the western Roman Empire, didn’t fall until almost two hundred years later. And it was with alot of the same things happening here in the US. It was with a large part of the population denying a belief in a higher power, infanticide, women choosing not to marry, a shrinking population, mass migration of pagan barbarians into the heart of the Roman empire with no cultural connection to the ideals of traditional Roman republic, an ever growing government bureaucracy with more and higher taxes. And the US is looking more and more like we will collapse as well, just like the western Roman empire. But then the christian eastern roman empire based out of Constantinople lasted for almost a thousand years more. Could you “blame” Christianity for the longevity of the eastern empire?

As for the “knowing” of the Infinite? I had my own “Knowing” out of the blue without any conscious desire on my part. And it wasn’t by any hallucinogen or mind altering substance. Many cultures make a connection to the infinite without the need of hallucinogens. What is “shockingly consistent” is that the description of that infinite by mystics across the ages in all cultures describes many of the basic scientific truths we are now developing through mathematics about the reality of quantum physics. This is the fact that there is no such thing as time, that all things are happening right now; that there are multiple universes, that everything is interconnected, that we are all one, and so on.

To me, it is obvious that we need both. The hard science of the knowable, and the mystery of the infinite, of the unknowable. The I AM that I AM. That is what we had done in the west. The balancing of the scientific method with the embracing of the infinite in the Christ. This brought us in the west to the heights of freedom, equality, wealth and individual accomplishments. When a person becomes so arrogant that they can state without self-doubt or self-question, that only the mind of man is the only reality, then what I see, is a certain and complete descent into madness, with the results of these “G-dless Utopias” sunk into blood and death, or the ability of supposed “good people”, being able to justify the murder of the unborn as a “right”.

Just curious since you have brought it up what is your standard? because you negatively talked about the “God Squad”, what is your alternative? god being the state? god being yourself? god being science? i mean really what is your alternative? since you seem to have a standard that you judge us what is this standard?

What is my God ? I don’t require one. Not even in the metaphorical sense.

I make my own decisions and accept responsibility for them for better or worse.

If mankind is incapable of accurately discerning right from wrong, then how are you able to judge whether your God commands are just ? Would you “rip up” a pregnant woman or “bash” an infant’s head against the rocks if God told you to ?

Ok great so since you have made yourself the absolute of your little universe how could you impose your world view on these Two murderers? What right do you have to say they are wrong in killing this man? What if they believe they are the god of their universe and they “think” just like you that they get to deside right and wrong? Dude really such logic is the total break down of society and total suicide. think about this logic, you have no reason even to argue on the side of Freedom with your logic. A true anti gun person would chew you up you and spit you out.

To quote someone that I don’t even know and say I am that person is ridiculous, and no I won’t throw Bible verses as you are already antagonistic towards them and it would be a waste of good words. I said nothing at all about 9/11. Now if you could actually answer the questions I posed in a educated way I will happily answer. But if all you are going to do is foolishly throw me in a bucket with people I do not even associate with then don’t waste mine or your time.

I’m not a prophet but I predict that the next time I make any comment even slightly critical of Christianity you and your “brothers” in Christ will come rushing in to reply and broad brushing my lack of belief by associating it with political movements that as a conservative I ardently reject. Ironic isn’t it ?

The Armor of God seems to have little effect in protecting your thin skin.

Ok, so you again attacked me as a person and not my position! i mean really is this just because you cant answer my question? i am not attacking you, i am attacking the position you hold to. you say you are conservative, why? why would you be conservative if there is no god? or right and wrong outside of your own standard? I hope you are not offended because i challenged your position, i was not offended even though you have gone to attacks of me instead of my position. Your comment portrays that it is not me who is easily offended, you have still as of yet answered my questions.

I agree completely. Man is the most dangerous animal on the face of the planet, and his willingness to engage in extreme acts of violence–the very violence that allowed us to survive without claws, fangs, hides or strength–is revealed when the thin veneer of civilization is ripped aside.

Sadism does not occur in nature and is attributed solely to humans. Animals act in their own self interest. They do not get pleasure out of the suffering of others. This is where I personally make a distinction between ‘wicked’ and ‘evil’. The wicked act in their own self interest but have no concern about how others are adversely effected. The evil on the other hand act out of sadism.

I see evil as evidence of higher powers in the universe. You may have a strong faith that there are none, but I would think even an atheist would have to question his faith over, for instance, how a mad man lead an entire nation to fight a vicious war with all of it’s neighbors while simultaneously murdering 11 million people in death camps, without any form of supernatural influence. And of course, if there is an evil higher power then there must surely be a benevolent higher power.

African bull elephants in musth / musk exist in a heightened state of aggression because their level of testosterone are elevated up to SIXTY times the normal amount.
They will kill anything in their path just because they want to ( even rhinos and hippos ). Nothing is a threat to them…they weigh up to 13 000 pounds… except other bull elephants.

Not sadism. They don’t kill because they enjoy inflicting pain, they kill because they’re in a testosterone induced state of hyper aggression necessary to fight off other bulls and mate.

If you really want a valid argument, I’ll help you out. The best counterargument to my point is that animals don’t have the mental capacity for sadism or empathy and the only difference is our vastly superior intellect makes us capable of both.

Just curious, do you really believe that in the entire universe, with billions of galaxies out there, that we are the highest developed living things (almost said ‘creatures’) to ever be? And how can you be so sure?

Why do you think that only carbon based life forms exist in the universe? We know that we have no idea what 70% of the universe is even made up of and call it ‘dark matter’. And to make the math work we then had to invent ‘dark energy’. What evidence do you have that this dark matter or a specific element of dark matter isn’t the basis for another form of life? Or perhaps a substance we don’t even have a clue exists at all?

The way I see it, we don’t even know a tiny fraction of a single percent of what there is to know about the universe. People who profess belief in a specific religion base that faith on the premise that if we have a creator then that creator would likely have made contact with us at some point. You mock their faith, but you have no evidence that they’re wrong. Seems kind of arrogant.

‘Are you referring to beings who exist within natural boundaries ( such as ourselves ) or beings ( gods) who transcend them ?’

What are those ‘natural boundaries’? Because of your (our) ignorance about the universe, you cannot define those boundaries so you therefore cannot define the nature of men or of gods. Yet you declare that there are no gods. Gods only transcend the natural boundaries that we understand.

And properly so, especially in light of the fact that ….as you pointed out …..of the extremely LIMITED amount of knowledge that mankind posseses.

Jumping to conclusions ( must be god ! ) in the absence of conclusive proof….now THAT is arrogance.

During man’s history literally thousands of gods and demi-gods have been worshipped. Tell me, which of these gods are real and which of these are simply figments of imagination and how do you tell the difference ?

Skepticism is good. There’s a lot of room for charlatans in religion. But the existence of false prophets does not prove the non-existence of genuine prophets. And not all gods (if they exist) are necessarily benevolent. Claiming out of ignorance that they’re all just myths and fantasies (and the people who believe in them are stupid) would be arrogant. I find atheists annoying because of this. Agnostics I don’t have a problem with. From a scientific standpoint there is no evidence that God and/or gods do not exist. It takes just as much faith to believe one way as it does the other.

The problem here is the mentality of the parents who raised these type of children. Most of these children do not have a mother and father as we did now that’s no excuse a lot of people grow up without Mom and Dad’s and don’t turn out to be homicidal maniacs. This whole gang mentality is absolutely stupid these kids have too much time on their hands. They should be in after-school programs or at a job that’s right I said it a job I’ve worked since I was 15 years old. Joining the military at 17 with parents consent and doing five and a half years in the 82nd Airborne. That experience in itself help me mature and grow up and be respectful of everyone. What 90% of these kids need is a good ass tearing off. Everybody wants to be a friend to their children nowadays nobody wants to actually be a parent that’s the problem. Kids have enough friends they need an adult who is going to be a true parent and lead by example. Instead of claiming your mentally incompetent and claiming a crazy check food stamps and all the other crap that goes along with these type of individuals. These kids have no respect for human life. Therefore we shouldn’t respect their lives at all. We should get a bunch of police officers together in these horrible cities and roll them through like a freaking Army in anybody with gang tattoos or sporting gang colors should be lined up against the fence somewhere and mowed down with a f****** belt-fed machine gun end of story no more gang problems in our country.

My dad advised me when I was about 13 years old that he was not my friend, he was my father.
As an adult we became friends. And that’s a good way to have a good relationship with your parents when you join ranks of adulthood

It’s interesting to me how quality parenting works wonders and how it can vary so much and still be effective.

Personally I was great friends with my dad when I was in high school. He’d even buy me beer. I got in a ton of trouble in school but he relished that because I didn’t realize at the time that I was riling up and running circles around the Leftist idiots in the administration but he saw exactly what was going on. As long as I could defend my position with facts and logic and so long as I never started the trouble, both my parents had my back to the hilt.

We had some friction but we were friends. He didn’t have to tell me who was in charge. One good (and well fucking deserved) thrashing with a belt when I was about six set me straight on that. Tomfuckery wasn’t tolerated in my parents’ house and that was made clear early on so it was never a problem.

The left has been ripping apart the family unit ever since Marx. The latest attack is the push for a $15 minimum wage. Who in their right mind is going to pay some teenage punk $15/hr? Everywhere this is pushed the teen unemployment goes up, which contributes to juvenile delinquency. This I believe is a feature, not a bug.

You are wrong for the simple fact that you can raise a child right and they make their own decision at some point in life. I know people who weren’t good parents and their kids turned out to be good people and vice versa. Good parents and bad kids. Hell i was raised by a single mom but I still did some things she didn’t approve of but I turned out great. At some point, it’s the actions of that individual not the parent.

The Cook County State’s Attorney Kim Foxx and the County Board President Toni Preckwinkle believe that these people are misunderstood youth. Foxx ran on a platform of redemption for the criminals-everyone deserves a second chance. They want the jail empty to save money. When will the tax payers of that county wake up?

Said no Asian kid ever. Seriously, an unarmed black man was shot while with his kids and he wasn’t even pulled over. He truly “Dindu” “Nuffin” yet he was gunned down. But his black life did not matter and does matter – not enough for protests and riots.

I don’t deny evil, I see it right in front of me promoting a debunked stat of how ” more guns will save us, police won’t protect you” when many times, It is a load of crap.

Your beliefs that if we arm everyone then the whole world would be safe, When your beliefs are based of false altruism and fantasy that has no basis in reality.

All “illegal” guns started off as “legal”.

All “bad guys” started off as “good guys”, No one is born evil, Even a “peaceful gun rights supporter” can snap if given the circumstances.

So who is going to protect us from you if you decide to lose your grip on reality?

Once again, and again, I’ve been proven right that incidents like what happened in London do not compare to what happens here EVERYDAY. There have been more and more mass killings, gun suicides, accidental injuries and deaths everyday in this country but you try to shift it into the affairs of another country in some shitty attempt to prove that “there laws don’t work.”

I still don’t see Europe, Canada. Japan or Australia turning into those “apocalyptic” hellholes people like you continue to falsely believe.

The rest of the world doesn’t suffer this madness everyday. There have been more and more attacks caused by right-wing nutters and survivalist militia fanatics in this country alone than some radical extremist.

I will never believe anything positive about the “pro-gun community” Cause there never was anything positive to begin with. The “pro-gun community” is made up of nothing but low-IQ rednecks, sexists, racists, perverted, fascist morons that think our last president was some dictator when last president did alot more for this country including saving lives.

I’ve lost a high-school penpal friend to a psychotic NRA martyr who shot up a school in 2005.

I’ve witness a elderly woman mourn her only grandson when two “upstanding good guys with guns” shot him dead over some country music CDs in his truck they tried to steal and they weren’t prohibited persons.

I’ve witnessed an “upstanding good guy with a gun” shoot his wife dead over a domestic despite HE CAUSED and he wasn’t a prohibited person.

But in your sick minds, These must have counted as “defensive gun use”

So where are all these “DGU’s” I’ve been hearing about?, Since this website has never even produced a single legit one which proved that “DGU’s” will always be a MYTH.

What happened in the windy city saddens me, If other states did their jobs of keeping their weapons out of Chicago, things would’ve been different.

Pro-gun states have higher murders, suicides, crime, corruption and piss poor economies and education than states with strict laws.

You can continue to fling your corporation-owned stats which are always twisted and skewered to support your dafty beliefs.

But I will stick to facts presented by actual researchers, doctors, human rights groups and peace organizations not some right-wing cranks and gun industries that think doomsday is just around the corner.

If “evil” does indeed exist, It is people like you that continue to terrorize us everyday with your crap.

This sounds to me like a gang initiation. So you’re higher education and moral standing must tell you that violent gangs are not evil, since you are also a very hate-filled person, and if we’re honest, a compulsive liar. You must be smart enough to know that large groups criminals are neccesary, in order to keep their communities from growing and becoming more prosperous than you are. Lets face it, you hate guns because you’re a nobody and you cant stand that fact. So you feel the need to drag everyone down to your level instead of giving others the tools, including defensive firearms, to self-sufficiency and economic success. Run along little troll, because we cannot be persuaded to be less than we are.

@The_Gutless — But, you do deny evil. Not only do you deny evil, but you tend to elect governments that stoke it, then arm it, then invite it in to our backyard. That government that you elected, NOT us, will not protect you — but a gun will.

Your beliefs that if we disarm everyone then the whole world would be safe, when your beliefs are based on pathological altruism to people who will only EVER want to kill you have no basis in reality.

Not all “illegal” guns start off as legal, either, and you have ZERO evidence — empirical or otherwise — to support this or literally any other point about literally anything else under the Sun that you’ve ever made. Here or elsewhere.

Not all “bad” guys start off as “good” guys, either, and you have ZERO evidence — empirical or otherwise — to support this or literally any other point about literally anything else under the Sun that you’ve ever made. Here or elsewhere.

So, who is going to protect us when another of you leftist radicals decide to lose your grip on reality?

Once and again, and over and over, you’ve been proven wrong that incidents like what happened in London do compare to what happens here BUT VERY RARELY. You wouldn’t know jack shit about it because you don’t live here. There have been, in point of fact, a great many, many more mass killings, suicides, and deaths every day outside this country than in it. But, you try (and fail) to try and shift it into the affairs of another country that IS demonstratively worse off than we are in some shitty attempt to prove that “their laws work.”

You do see most of the E.U., Canada, Japan, and Australia turning into your fabeled “apocalyptic hellholes” because they already are. They are police states, all of them, which are LESS free than we are.

The rest of the world suffers this madness more than we do. There have actually been far and away many, many more attacks perpetrated by your left-wing fellow-travelers in this country alone — which you don’t even live in — than you could count on your little sausage fingers and toes.

And that’s even assuming you can even count at all. Which I rightly doubt.

We will never believe anything positive about the “anti-gun community,” because you’ve never demonstrated anything good to begin with. The “anti-gun community” is made up of nothing gullible pseudo-intellectuals who project all of their racism, sexism, classism, and anti-Semitism onto anyone who disagrees with their left-wing Messiahs: fascists like Hitler, and Marxists like Mao and Stalin.

You’ve lost nothing to any NRA member, and there has never been any proof that an NRA member has ever shot up a school — or anything else, for that matter.

You’ve witnessed nothing evil done by “upstanding good guys,” because otherwise they’d not be. And you have ZERO way of knowing whether they were prohibited persons or not, either, Mr. (Non)Psychic.

You’ve also witnessed nothing evil done by an “upstanding good guy with a gun,” either, because otherwise he’d not be. You’ve NEVER seen any of these things, because we know know for a fact you’re a first-rate liar, coward, bully, and everything else bad that you’ve ever accuse anyone else here of thinking, saying, doing, and being.

But, in you sick minds, these FANTASIES must have been real and these people MUST have been your hated “Other.”

So, where are all these “good guys with guns doing bad things to good people” we’ve been hearing about? Since you have never produced a single legit one, and this blog HAS linked to hundreds (if not thousands) of verifiable DUGs, that proves that “good guys with guns are bad people” will always be a MYTH.

What happened in the Windy City excites you. If Sillynoise did its job of finally recognizing its denizens right to keep and bear arms, and actually prosecuted weapons charges like they’re supposed to be, THEN things would be different.

Anti-gun states have higher murder rates, suicide rates, violent crime, corruption, piss-poor economies, and education than states with looser laws.

You can continue to fling your corporate-owned and generated statistics and “studies,” which are always twisted and skewed to support your demonstrably false beliefs.

But we will stick to facts that haven’t been eviscerated by real academia, actual doctorates in relevant fields, actual civil rights groups, and actual peace organizations. Not some left-wing think-tank that produces whatever opinion is bought by whatever billionaire plutocrat flashes his cash.

Evil does indeed exist, and people like you who continue to terrorize us every day with the crime, corruption, and poverty that you had a DIRECT hand in creating are responsible for it.

Both the U.K.and Australia experienced increase in violent crimes and homicides after passing their gun control legislation. In the industrialized world these are the only increases I can find in a long downward trend in the rest of the world that continues to this day in the U.S. while we remove our gun control bit by bit.

Civilian firearm ownership saves lives. Those guns are used more often to stop violent crime than to commit them. Gun control prevents people from having that ability.

You can look at the data yourself, this is not from a pro gun propaganda outlet, but from the government published statistics from each respective country.

‘I don’t deny evil, I see it right in front of me promoting a debunked stat of how ” more gu ns will save us, police won’t protect you” when many times, It is a load of crap.’

So let me get this straight – MANY TIMES the police will protect you and you won’t need a fir earm for protection. MANY not ALL. So what about the times the police aren’t there to protect you? What is it, 15,000 people murdered every year in this country? (post birth) Where were the police? And we are evil for pointing this out?

Europe will be under Sharia Law within two decades.
Many neighborhoods there are already under Sharia Law.
The present alleged “peacefulness” is only temporary.
The violence of the transition will make Chiraq look like Pollyanna’s back yard.

About the same time Europe falls to islam, China will be taking over Australia.

Seriously dude. Do you ever respond to people or do you just do your cut and paste routine? At least trolls get some type of humorous satisfaction out of what they do. You seem better/worse than a troll. You seem sad and miserable.

The worst best/worst part is your posts are having The Obama Effect (similar to, though not the same as, the Streisand Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect). Obama was the best gun seller ever even though I think he was fairly pro-disarmament. Your posts make the pieces more interesting and commenters (sometimes) generate thoughtful replies to your posts.

Sometimes I like troll watching and you are the sad troll of the moment.

Are there evil people in the world? Like what happened to Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom? A couple that was car-jacked, taken to a house and both were sexually tortured for hours by four black men. Then Christopher was shot in the back, dowsed in gasoline and set on fire and Channon, while alive, was wrapped in plastic and dumped in a dumpster where she slowly suffocated to death. The details of what was done to both of them is absolutely nauseating.

If the races were reversed, this would have been world wide front page news for months.

This is why I always carry where I can, including home carry. I would never surrender to a person threatening me, but especially if they were threatening one of my family. I would rather take the chance of them being killed while I took care of business, rather than have them go through similar nightmare circumstances.

Savages. Super predators that MSM denies the existence of but here they are. And they are not alone. There are vast armies of these soulless, feral creatures in virtually every big and medium sized city across America. Better hope civil authority doesn’t break down because if it does these hood rats will move out of the hood to “gets paid”.

oh yeah, they believe. the lemmings continue to be mortified by random episodes of violence, they remain largely in denial. the ivory tower legislation funding crew hope they remain insulated, but are aware. the legislators themselves, well, one can only wish reality upon them.

pure evil happens. the worst abused can remain gentle and the most coddled can become ruthless. and everything in between.

The postmodernist gun control proponents certainly don’t (and I suspect most of them in fact are adherents to Foucault and Derrida). The left has embraced postmodernism (along with identity politics) full stop. Why? Because if one doesn’t believe in essentials, such as good and evil (or for that matter truth or falsehood), then it frees up the heavy hand of the state to Weberian rationalize society into their promised utopia. Which is why the left has embraced gun control as the Democratic party has lurched further to the left and which is why the academic left never rejected socialism despite the end of the Cold War. If you believe that people are flawed and can, and in small numbers be dangerous despite socialization the argument for disarmament becomes difficult to make. If humanity is “perfectible” through socialization…then no one needs to concern themselves with defense.

Is there evil in the world? Of course this is. For every Mother Teresa there must be an Adolf Hitler. For every Joseph Stalin and Kim Jung Un. There must a Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi. They world has been living with good and evil for as long as we have been on this planet. Our world is now and has always been a balance of both sides of every spectrum. Light-Dark. Cold-Hot. Wet-Dry. From molten ball to the wondrous world we live in now. Evil comes in many forms. Some times the best of intentions can be evil and hard to comprehend. In the end the choice is always there. Good/Evil… CHOOSE!!!

If they were just critics, they wouldn’t be Hell-bent on curtailing — with the inevitable and undeniable goal of altogether eliminating — our right to keep and bear arms.

If ever they respond with, “We’re not anti-gu–” They should never even be able to finish their sentence because you should have already cut them off with, “Yes, yes you are, and here’s why.”

You keep listing all of the various reason why. Ranging from the racist, sexist, classist, and anti-Semite core of gun control (which IS still its bedrock today by the by), to its total and complete ineffectiveness anywhere at any time in history regardless of the circumstances. While you list all of the unarguable reason why they’re wrong they try to interject, simply talk over them — up to and including at the top of your lungs if needs be to drown them out — until they shut their mealy little cock holsters and go back to “listening.” Assuming they’re even capable, that is.

Most of them simply aren’t.

When finished, don’t even bother taking any questions, as you should have already thoroughly explained everything to them beforehand. Just dictate to them that it’s already the end of the conversation and that they should stop trying to add to it because they have nothing to say.

We need not accuse of them of being callous, cold, uncaring, or any of that. Hell, that goes without saying. Not that they would ever believe that about themselves, of course.

But, that is always and without exception the exact same and only kind of “conversation” they they want to have with us: a one-sided, heavy-handed dressing down to make us feel guilty and small.

Well, it’s time we started returning the favor. “These are the real facts and that’s literally all there is to it. Good day to you.” And scene.

Curious fence-sitters, on the other hand, whole different story. They get the best of our civility because they usually ask in good faith and genuinely want to understand. (Sure, sure, anti-gunners can be converts, too, I suppose. But, that’s like finding a chest of gold in your backyard. Almost never happens.)

The solution is to take the illicit money gangs make by legalizing drugs and actually make them get jobs or start doing other crimes that people take seriously and don’t lead to murder because that’s the issue they sell dope and protect their territory it all boils down to drugs and culture…

“an anyone believe that these two teens would have been upstanding citizens if only they’d had economic security and a good education?”

Yes, if you also include a good upbringing in that factor. It’s nurture, not nature- this “evil” nonsense is just a way to avoid the real issues. We don’t have ‘evil’ gene. Yes, there are genetic components to some disorders, but that’s not the issue here. The issue here is that you have children with no families or support structures other than violent gangs of sociopaths that have been raised the same way. It has taken generations to get to this point. And people posting here wouldn’t do any better if they were raised in the slums of these cities.

I can see why people just want to call it ‘evil.’ But the devil isn’t to blame for this. Humans are. The politicians in Chicago and Baltimore that give money to gangs in what should be a shocking display of neo-patronage that isn’t that different than during the waning days of the Roman Republic. Politicians then would pay for mobs of violent lower-class citizens to do their bidding (and vote for them, of course); something that worked especially well because there was no real police force to speak of. Oh, look what democratic politicians in big cities are doing to their own police? Almost as if these politicians thrive on violence and disorder.

There are other aspects as well. The drug war, like prohibition, is a huge moneymaker for criminals. Is it worth it? If someone ODs on heroin it’s sad, but might it not be better to let them do that instead of funding violent gangs in the process? But if you’re going in that direction you can’t just ‘decriminalize’- that’s stupid as hell. You’re still getting all the same criminal organizations except you can’t even attack them legally. No, you have to do what we did with alcohol- actually legalize it. And I’m not sure we have the stones as a country for that kind of freedom.

I could think of plenty of other potential solutions but unfortunately none that look feasible in the current political climate. I think things will have to get as bad as a couple of decades ago before the cold water hits and we realize that our little experiment with letting thugs have room to destroy hasn’t worked out. Big city democratic leadership is breeding those ‘super-criminals’ that it has become so politically incorrect to talk about.

“I can see why people just want to call it ‘evil.’ But the devil isn’t to blame for this. Humans are.”

Atheism (and the corresponding lack of belief in the devil) is not incompatible with belief in evil.

In fact, I’d venture so far as to state that atheism can lead to a stronger belief in evil than if one believes in a deity … especially if there’s an afterlife. Simply, if I believe you have a life after death, then really, how big a deal is killing you? It’s kind of like robbing a bank that has insurance. A temporary inconvenience, but in the end recoverable and replaceable. But if I believe this one life is all we have, and then oblivion for the rest of eternity … then killing really represents the complete, total, final extinguishing of everything that you are. Deciding to kill for no good reason, under that set of assumptions, is pretty much unutterably evil.

“Deciding to kill for no good reason, under that set of assumptions, is pretty much unutterably evil”

Except that is not “evil” some would say. It is, or could be viewed as, the moral equivalent of stepping on an ant hill.
And a “good reason” is what anyone wants to call a “good reason”.

Human life only has transcendent dignity because God is transcendent. Afterlife or no that is why this act is evil. Human life must have value, more than humans just saying it does, for the taking of that life to be “evil”. On a purely physical level death is merely a chemical reaction or state of being. Is a man more than just his body?

A moral framework that delineates between good and evil must exist for an act to be either or. If you attempt to codify that framework and ascribe anything other than utility to it, and even hint at transcendence, you just argued for or established a rudimentary “religion”.

But yeah guns unlike men are neither good or evil. They are tools. But they are powerful and sometimes they are cool.

I’m sure the family of these 2 murderers will argue that their kids were just trying to survive on the harsh streets, and how else are their kids going to fight back against pernicious racism, xenophobia, transphobia, all the phobia’s, blah blah bulls hiot. The parents should be held for aiding and abetting, accomplices after the fact.

In THESE incidents, I’m all for LEO escalating the situation to its terminal outcome. These teens killed a man in front of his children, no trial, no jury, they DID IT, and they should be judged on the street for it, Judge Dredd style. You kill a man in front of his kids and you die where you stand when the cops arrive, PERIOD. But there I go again, spoutin more invective of my own. Play a mans gane, PAY A MANS PRICE.

I’d posit that we don’t trust these “kids” (assuming under 18) to drink, vote, own a handgun, or perhaps even drive depending on state. How can we blame them, and sentence them to death, when their family and liberal society has failed them?

While I don’t know as they shouldn’t get stiff punishment, younger people do not think long term. They haven’t had kids, they haven’t known love (even from their own family) so how can we expect them to behave in a civilized manner, when all they have known is uncivilized life?

There are plenty of people who commit heinous acts as youth, yet later in life, if given the opportunity to exist, have tried to redeem themselves to society. It isn’t a fact that it will happen, but to deprive kids of that opportunity is IMO a bad idea. We’ve been charging kids as adults for decades, yet we are talking about kids killing someone in today’s world. It doesn’t work, because they don’t think about the consequences.

Now, if you want to execute the parents, I might be inclined to agree. But as most of us know who weren’t choirboys, it’s not our parents fault that we misbehaved. Most of us didn’t grow up in an environment where misbehaving involves committing violence against others…but that doesn’t mean those who did are acting any differently than we might have in the same situation, including the family life, or non-existence of one.

There is something to be said for personal responsibility. Which means holding liberal politicians and liberal laws responsible for creating an entire population that has no value for human life, even their own.

I respect your opinion, and agree with part of what you say, but not all of it.

How is it not the parents fault, at least to a degree? Do you have ANY idea what most of these “families” look like? Abusive parents. Malnourished. No father figure. Peers that are gang members, drug dealers, rapists, murderers, you name it. A society which glorifies money, personal benefit, and perceived credibility over all else.

To believe all 13 year olds (just throwing a number out there, they do this too, no idea how old these “youth” were) are capable of understanding the repercussions of their actions isn’t something I believe. Good parents would hold kids accountable. These kids come from

The War on Drugs and the War on Poverty. The first provides the financial incentives and the second the foot soldiers. Both are the result of a misunderstanding of the nature of man and morality. Man has no moral instinct, his sense of morality is training into him. Left without proper moral training he will do whatever brings him pleasure. Working a job is far less pleasurable than running with the gang. The money dealing drugs is far greater, and so is the availability of sex. That being said society has the right to demand swift retribution. (You do this, and we will take your life.) The death penalty should always be saved for crimes of the most heinous nature.

These two know that odds are good they won’t be caught. Certainly nobody will speak up and identify them. Even if they are caught, being under age, means they will not face execution or even hard time. No later then 21, they will be out on the streets.

This is the best article I have ever read that perfectly illustrates the human capacity for both great good and great evil. It’s fascinating, and despite the website it’s on, not political or preachy in the slightest.

I think that a sentence of life in prison should exist, but only if the possibility of parole after X amount of years goes along with it. If it’s life with no possibility for parole, just make it a death sentence. Give them like 5-10 years to make their appeals, then if they fail, execute.

Here’s one way out of the ethical conundrum of the death penalty: Have vicious sadistic murderers who display inhuman levels of cruelty or sadism declared to be no longer human by definition, but rather mad dogs who must be immediately put down to preserve the safety of the genuine humans in their vicinity. This verdict would not be subject to appeal or review, and must be summarily executed. Rope or bullet, behind the courthouse. Case closed. Next.

Y’know, it’s been a couple years since I was in school, but I seem to remember more than one story in history class about countries that decided the people they didn’t like weren’t people anymore. None of those stories had happy endings, as I recall…

I blame the three L’s Libertarians , Liberals and the Left for creating the environment that lead to this and the other 3000+ shootings last year in Chiraq.
Because they hate the church. They hate Christianity. They attacked the private individual and non government groups (churches) that would have provided moral support, yes I know they hate morality. It was the creation of the Welfare State that caused the destruction of families and their neighborhoods.

With President Trump ending the Welfare state as it is now, things will get better slowly over time. Its not surprising that Reason Magazine came out against drug testing for people who get welfare. Getting intoxicated is more important than having government imposed self control on putting things into their bodies.

Prior to the Johnson welfare programs and the 1968 gun control act, american cities were pretty safe places over all.

The thing about the Left, where the vast majority of gun control advocates reside, is that they are fundamentally Marxist. Maybe not all of those who vote Democrat, and probably most don’t realize that they are voting for a Marxist narrative. But the politicians on today’s Left are Marxists. They have simply replaced the working class vs. the bourgeoise with the oppressed vs. the oppressor. They then use identity politics to break off as many people as possible from mainstream society and put them in the oppressed class, and then use white guilt to get as many of the remaining white voters as they can. Everyone else gets defined as the oppressor.

For this reason, they cannot call individuals evil, unless they are white males. It goes against the narrative. These inner city youth committed this horrible crime because of the oppression they face in their daily lives. If they admit that these two individuals are evil, then the cracks begin show in the narrative, and nobody likes cognitive dissonance.