You know my rep. BTW, congrats on the Hall Monitor cred.
Seriously though, we're talking about three RTW makers that distinguish themselves as luxury brands by hand-finishing, detailing and luxury fabrics. Then you have three brands that make bespoke/MTM shirts where the sky is the limit on what features, level of detail and grade of fabric you'd like to use. Can you have Carl make you a shirt that rivals Barba in terms of finishing, fabrics and detailing? Sure. But it's a bespoke shirt, it's supposed to be whatever you want it to be.
Then, within that spectrum, there's a whole other level of quality and consistency between the different makers. It's just not really a question that can be answered objectively...

thanks! i hope to keep the spam down to a minimum. its the least i can do to give back to the forum a little, for all it has given me.

to weigh in on the convo, i think that while top shelf italian makers and smaller batch MTM makers are certainly different, comparisons can be made.

for example, my brother, who is also very clothing conscious, but much more into GQ trendy type stuff, has his shirts made by some indian dude that visits bmore a few times a year. i have seen his shirts up close, and i can tell that they will never be anything like a borrelli or the like. sure, the fit is just how he wants it, but that is simply because the guy does a good job measuring, which should not be discounted, not every maker is good at that. but i can tell the quality is suspect. no matter what fabric he would choose. the shirts are made in some factory, by what i am sure are not particularly skilled craftsmen, and it shows.

sure, there will be MTM makers that can replicate the quality and construction of a top shelf RTW maker, but not every MTM factory can, or even want to, make shirts at that level. its a costly process to employ that kind of skilled shirtmaker, and not everyone has the clientele to warrant it.

i know nothing about hamilton, but i understand that luxire makes a nice shirt, but not up to par with the likes of borrelli. and i get the impression that that is not simply because that was not what was ordered, but that they just dont make that kind of shirt. where as cego, i have heard that they can and do make shirts on par with top shelf italian makers.

i think barba/borrelli/finamore all make a pretty consistently fantastic shirt, with barba being just a hair beneath in terms of certain qualities, although some of my barba shirts are on par with the borrellis i have. and when comparing the 3 mentioned MTM makers by tits, i think only cego could make shirts that would resemble those of the 3 mentioned italian brands, assuming that that is what you want to pay for. with the added benefit, that you can pick the the exact fit you are looking for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bourbonbasted

But, you can make a carbon copy of a shirt (more or less) if you care to go to the pain of paying for it and waiting out the process.

this is kind of a repeat of the above, but i think you are over simplifying. making a carbon copy of any shirt is not so easy. there is skill that goes into making anything at top level quality. some MTM makers can replicate that. others can not.

thanks! i hope to keep the spam down to a minimum. its the least i can do to give back to the forum a little, for all it has given me.
to weigh in on the convo, i think that while top shelf italian makers and smaller batch MTM makers are certainly different, comparisons can be made.
for example, my brother, who is also very clothing conscious, but much more into GQ trendy type stuff, has his shirts made by some indian dude that visits bmore a few times a year. i have seen his shirts up close, and i can tell that they will never be anything like a borrelli or the like. sure, the fit is just how he wants it, but that is simply because the guy does a good job measuring, which should not be discounted, not every maker is good at that. but i can tell the quality is suspect. no matter what fabric he would choose. the shirts are made in some factory, by what i am sure are not particularly skilled craftsmen, and it shows.
sure, there will be MTM makers that can replicate the quality and construction of a top shelf RTW maker, but not every MTM factory can, or even want to, make shirts at that level. its a costly process to employ that kind of skilled shirtmaker, and not everyone has the clientele to warrant it.
i know nothing about hamilton, but i understand that luxire makes a nice shirt, but not up to par with the likes of borrelli. and i get the impression that that is not simply because that was not what was ordered, but that they just dont make that kind of shirt. where as cego, i have heard that they can and do make shirts on par with top shelf italian makers.
i think barba/borrelli/finamore all make a pretty consistently fantastic shirt, with barbe being just a hair beneath in terms of certain qualities. and when comparing the 3 mentioned MTM makers by tits, i think only cego could make shirts that would resemble those of the 3 mentioned italian brands, assuming that that is what you want to pay for. with the added benefit, that you can pick the the exact fit you are looking for.
this is kind of a repeat of the above, but i think you are over simplifying. making a carbon copy of any shirt is not so easy. there is skill that goes into making anything at top level quality. some MTM makers can replicate that. others can not.

I think I've begun talking in circles and lost sight of my original statement: his comparison is not apples to apples. He's talking about 3 top shelf Italian RTW makers vs. three (arguably) different grades of custom makers. One goes custom because they identify the details that matter to them (usually fit and a couple other outliers). However, without identifying what those details are, you are left with completely subjective measures of "construction" or "finishing" or "detailing." None of those words, while pretty and thrown around here 10,000 times a minute, mean anything to anyone without an objective standard or specification being established.

I think I've begun talking in circles and lost sight of my original statement: his comparison is not apples to apples. He's talking about 3 top shelf Italian RTW makers vs. three (arguably) different grades of custom makers. One goes custom because they identify the details that matter to them (usually fit and a couple other outliers). However, without identifying what those details are, you are left with completely subjective measures of "construction" or "finishing" or "detailing." None of those words, while pretty and thrown around here 10,000 times a minute, mean anything to anyone without an objective standard or specification being established.

while we are all waxing poetic and verily pontificating on the great and vastly important topic of fine shirting, i imagine we all dont really disagree too much on this subject. we are just hoping that one of our firm and lengthy posts will make someone say, you know what, i bow to your superior reasoning and knowledge.

I assumed everyone already submitted to me. Ignorance is bliss I suppose

I think you're right, though I still believe that people dress they way they do and make the choices that they do for very deliberate reasons (assuming they are informed). Otherwise you're just hopping on a bandwagon or making blanket statements of "quality" without any thought to what that means. It's all subjective. Some of us are insistent on details that other cringe at; some of us will pay for stuff others scoff at. All I hope is that people realize why they weigh one option over another to put some objective standard to an inherently subjective process.

yup. i agree. also, body shape plays in here as well. i used to have a rough time with shirts. i recently lost some poundage, and the slimmer fit italian shirts, fit me supremely now. except finamore, dont know why, but their shirts are over an inch slimmer than borrelli and barba, for the same tagged neck size. and if i size up, the neck will be too big.

my only real desire to go MTM right now, would be to get certain fit details ever so slightly more perfect in a few areas, and so i could pick exactly what shade of royal oxford light blue shirt i was looking for. and while that is of most high significance to some, to me, it does not warrant the task of going to new york and getting shirts made up, when i am more than happy with the fit and look of the RTW italian shirts i can get my hands on. for now, they are just what i need.

to others, those few things might be so important that they will not be happy until they remedy them. and MTM is needed to do that. to each their own. no wrong or right in this equation, imo.

Ah, the age old forum debate resurfaces. I'm sure ill be crucified accordingly for new overcoat bought rtw instead of waiting forever for bespoke, with a slightly lesser penance for kiton suit bought at extreme discount NWT, instead of seeing Napoli us Misura (much as I'd like to get a suit from them)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bourbonbasted

I assumed everyone already submitted to me. Ignorance is bliss I suppose
I think you're right, though I still believe that people dress they way they do and make the choices that they do for very deliberate reasons (assuming they are informed). Otherwise you're just hopping on a bandwagon or making blanket statements of "quality" without any thought to what that means. It's all subjective. Some of us are insistent on details that other cringe at; some of us will pay for stuff others scoff at. All I hope is that people realize why they weigh one option over another to put some objective standard to an inherently subjective process.

I think I've begun talking in circles and lost sight of my original statement: his comparison is not apples to apples. He's talking about 3 top shelf Italian RTW makers vs. three (arguably) different grades of custom makers. One goes custom because they identify the details that matter to them (usually fit and a couple other outliers). However, without identifying what those details are, you are left with completely subjective measures of "construction" or "finishing" or "detailing." None of those words, while pretty and thrown around here 10,000 times a minute, mean anything to anyone without an objective standard or specification being established.

I think this sums up how entirely you have missed the point, which was to make a comparison, not to try and objectively determine which shirt maker will be the best. Obviously, since it was done, it can be done.

You are right in that a reason people move to custom clothing can be that they want a greater level of control over fit and form. Over the last year or so I have dabbled in this for suits, shirts, and shoes. As far as suitings go, I really don't ever want to go back to RTW. My MTM shoe experience was awesome and I would really like to move that forward to the full monty.

While I really like my Hamilton bespoke shirts which certainly ended up comparable to the other luxury options available, they are a bit pricy. Through the forum, other options have presented themselves which may end up being a better value. Barba/Borelli/Finamore from shop the finest certainly comes to mind as Hamilton retails in the same range as those three. From Carl's website his average price also seems more economical. Luxire is circumspect, but they've been putting a lot out there and I'm willing to listen to the experiences of others. Either way, the question was intended for anyone who has experience with any of the RTW and custom offerings out there, i.e. who has handled them and can make a comparisson. If you've ordered from CEGO or Luxire and can say something, that's great and I would love to hear about it. Otherwise though, please refrain from talking out your ass. It is unhelpful.