Thursday, January 24, 2013

Statement by Ed Moloney and Anthony McIntyre on the death of Dolours Price

We wish to express our great sadness at the death of Dolours Price who was both a friend and a valued participant in the Belfast Project and we would like to convey our condolences to her boys, to her sisters and brother and to other members of her family.Throughout the last two years of our fight to prevent her interviews being handed over to the police in Belfast, our greatest fear was always for the health and well-being of Dolours. Now that she is no longer with us perhaps those who initiated this legal case can take some time to reflect upon the consequences of their action.

Dolours Price’s interviews will not now be immediately handed over, as some reports have wrongly claimed. The interviews are the subject of a stay imposed by the Supreme Court of the United States and that stay remains in place until that court, the highest in the land, decides otherwise. There are other subpoenas outstanding and as far as we are concerned the same issues affect them as they did Dolours Price’s case and we intend continuing the fight with renewed vigor to stop the remaining Belfast Project interviews from being handed over.

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Good luck to you both Anthony and Ed the Boston tapes are/should have been a historical gem for people wishing to study our recent past, the Dark ,David Irvine and now Dolores have departed the stage,people with a story to tell and so many others who could have shone a light into that dark past now looking like the securocrats have made sure that wont happen now,Dolores Price never bent the knee,she passed on as she lived an unrepentant republican.I salute her.

I never knew Dolore Price, everything I learnt about her was through books, TV interviews etc..The impression I've taken about her is she wasn't a 'bullshitter'. She called things as she seen them and took responsibility for her actions and she wasn't afraid of putting anyones nose out of joint when she expressed her political beliefs. Where ever she is tonight, I hope it's a quieter place than the one she left..

I don't think the British will release Marian (I hope I'm wrong) even for the funeral. They will come up with some excuse such as She is a danger to national security or other. Chances are (sounds horrible), I think one or two screws have probably made sick jibes about the death of her sister to her.

On the point about the BC tapes, where does that leave Dolores's untold story? I seen a few hacks asking Gerry Adams something similiar.

The court of appeals’ decision thus jeopardizes the long-term ability of scholars to gain information regarding profoundly sensitive and controversial subjects, including information that can help society avoid violent conflicts in the future.”

Thats what the project is about. Hopefully helping future generations not to make the same mistakes. Not the witch hunt Danny Morrison** thinks it's about. And I also wonder if SF are peeved at you and Ed because they...

1..Never came up with the idea2..They didn't get a chance to proof read/edit the transcripts

And this is the crux for me...

Such researchers need to be able to assure their sources that their confidentiality will be respected ..... Without such assurances, many persons will be unwilling to speak with researchers, limiting the scope of social science research and leaving irreparable lacunae in human knowledge.”

I don't think any person will talk freely again (if ever), unless their confidentiality is respected. And a lot of people outside of the North are watching. I believe things like the 'snub of their own' will play a large part in the decision (I don't think the Judges will make the ruling alone, they'll rule on what they are told to, not what they want to, the decision to release or not will be made over coffee by spooks in suits).

** Why is he called 'Bangers' (I know the meaning behind 'Brownie') & is this true...

Despite his family's republican convictions, Morrison's two sisters married British soldiers whom they had met when British troops were deployed to keep order in Belfast in 1969. <--From wiki..

'I don't think any person will talk freely again (if ever), unless their confidentiality is respected.'

Perhaps this is all part of the subpoena issue too? The real stories will never come out and future generations will have to rely on the likes of Adams and Morrison for a version of history that's been sanitised, rewritten or never happened at all.

Who was it who made comment on TPQ a week or so ago about posters here wanting to remain anonymous?

My deepest sympathy to all of Delours’s family and friends, I really mean that, unlike a scumbag I saw on the news yesterday (I almost threw up when I seen the “great bearded one” on tv pretending he was sorry to hear of her death). What I’m going to say next, and I hope no-one takes it the wrong way is, I hope Marion gets even a few hours leave from the hell hole she’s in now to attend the funeral and I hope she is really wretched looking. Maybe then more ordinary people like us will shake themselves out of their malaise and get out on the streets to demand her release. I remember the 80/81 hunger strikes and my pleading with people to come out en masse to protest, by the time people did protest in huge numbers it was too late, that whore Thatcher (not to mention her cohorts who described themselves as “republicans” and still do!) had decided that people were going to die, come what may. The photo I seen of Dolours yesterday on different websites broke my heart, she looked like a woman haunted by the things she was asked to do for the IRA, did them willingly, and at the end like so many others was cast aside so that beardy buck and his traitor in (no) arms McGuinness could stick their tongues up whoever’s arse was available! The people that asked her to do these things, of course, hadn’t the balls to do it themselves, she had the “balls” and did it! Sleep well Dolours a lot of people in Ireland and beyond will never forget you cara.

Kerry believes the BC files should ­remain out of the reach of both the US and British governments. The death of Price presents those governments with a face-saving way to walk away.

If police in Northern Ireland do not withdraw their demand for the tapes, they will prove what I ­believed all along: that this is a politically motivated attempt by a foreign law enforcement agency to use an American university as a proxy for intelligence gathering

Bookworm, I totally agree with you that the puppet masters want their hands on all the tapes so they can edit them and as you said (countless others too), to give 'us' a sanitised version of history, which benefits no one except the choosen few. There is more than enough circumstantial evidence in the public domain to at least warrant messers Adams & McGuinness to be questioned over all allegation made at them.

Anthony, we'll have to agree to disagree on my taking that Danny Morrison reckons you and Ed are on some sort of witch hunt against Adams. Thats my taking after reading his blog. I personally don't think you both are, neither was it the motivation behind the Belfast project (my belief). My reading is simply you both figured out before others that there isn't a cats in hells chance of a real T&R process ever going to be set up and the only way for anyone to understand the conflict was letting the players involved tell their stories in private, which wouldn't be released until they died. William 'Plume' Smith is on record saying the same thing..He spoke freely & honestly because he believed, like yourself, there wouldn't be any legal challenges to the history project.

I find Danny Morrison calling you a 'tout' laughable. This is someone who knew Scap. was a British Agent months before it became public knowledge but sat on that informaion. The question has to be asked why..Who benefited from Danny's silence? Was it to give the puppet masters a chance to move another agent into a position of safety? To cover their tracks?...Why didn't he take his concerns to the Army Council?

On the point of Scap., he was a British agent carrying out murders to futher a British agenda (not a republican one), so why are the murders he and other British agents were involved in not attributed to the British in Suttons index/Cain index or lost lives...?

Agreeing to differ is fine. That’s what it often ends up as anyway. It is the only way debate can be conducted civilly.

The reason I don’t think he believes it is as with most other things he says – does he believe any of it? Could he possibly believe that Scap was not an agent, or that the IRA didn’t rob the Northern Bank, or that the ballot box armalite strategy was a success? I would contend that rather than believing it was a witch hunt he tries to spin it as such for the purpose of discrediting it. In all of this he has consciously sought to use his agency to influence the course of events in favour of the British police.

FrankieThe time Morrison went to court seeking compensation, (which of course he is entitled to for being wrongfully convicted) the judges had some sort of document which they said wouldn’t be in the public interest and therefore wouldn’t release its contents. That tells me that there were more people than “Scap” who were touts in that house with Sandy Lynch.

Sorry folks; that should have read parole. She was granted bail but there is confusion how she could be granted bail when she was actually already on bail, having had her license revoked. The news is she was refused parole by the parole board.

I have heard three different reasons. I discussed the three of them together in the jail with Bik, if I am right, and he told me that the other two were sort of myths that had developed over the years; that the sausage one was the reason. I didn't have much interest one way or the other and it was just one of those jail discussions to while away an hour or two with no seriousness attached. But if you know the origins of it I am more than willing to accept it. Funny enough just before I met you the last time I was speaking to somebody who was having a laugh at the Wrong Man's expense and he said it was all down to his nerves being bad and so the Bangor Reserves was the name that arose from that. That was one of the ones Bik and me were discussing. If bad nerves were his worst transgression he would be alright. We know different however.

The Bangor reserves has been talked about more and more recently. In fairness to him it something that is only doing the rounds recently never ever heard it said of him when I was young.I doubt he was responsible for the fact that JJ Magee and Scap were two touts interviewing a tout.I think he fought the good fight to get his name cleared because he was sucked in and stunned that someone he perceived to be of inferior intellect had wiped more than his eye.

My thoughts for what they are worth on the whole British penetration of the provisional security dept & flipping volunteers is frightening. The more I read and learn about it, its mind boggling. It's scary stuff.

And the biggest criminals was and still is Mi5..I recently stumbled onto these two short videos..And the fella in the video makes the claim that KGB hq was the most bugged building in the world and the second was Clonard Monastary..(part B about 2mins 20seconds inti the video).

My recollections are, MORRISON was the only one arrested, and I will also state, He was set up by scap because the Brits wanted a scapegoat to take the heat off scap, I'm not sticking up for morrison for the simple reason he was and still is deceitful. but what makes me curious is, Why The "lol", One was saved, one got away from being classed as a tout, and morrison was lifted!. am I missing something on your reply to Marty?. This is very serious business and not a matter to be laughed about, and, I do not mean any disrespect towards you whatsoever. Just Curious. or have I missread your very short reply to Marty.

Yes I have heard that story, but, Think of it this way, "What Made her think that her house was "FULL OF TOUTS"! and state, "ONLY ONE OF THEM IS TIED UP"!, how did she know, who was who!!, to me that stinks of British manipulation!, why did scap pick that particular house!, Was it a safe house for him (scap) to use?. If we cant delve into the "IFs and Buts", we will never get to the bottom of it all.

including Sandy, we can say four for definite. When in Oxford with Morrison I asked him why he covered for Scap. He said there were three informers at work there and to reduce it to Scap would allow others to get off the hook. While I wasn't for buying that bull I knew he wasn't counting Sandy.

ItsjustmackersThe woman in question a life long Republican made the remark when she discovered two of the interrogators were informers.Any house would have been safe for Scap he was a fully fledged Agent therefore he was guaranteed safe passage.

supposedly because when they started debugging it the house sounded like Tubular Bells. They were detecting each others bug. My view: part of this was agent entrapment of agent. There is a line of logic that runs through this case from start to finish that lends iteslf to one very strong conclusion - Sandy plus four others.

can we ever be definitive in the sense of being dogmatic? There may be a possible different interpretation but none that I have seen that is compelling. The maths that come up with 3 excluding Sandy rather than four don't add up all that well. If we apply the beyond reasonable doubt standard - does anyone other than Scap really cross the line? If we apply balance of probability then I think four cross it. There is room to be wrong. If someone can make a more plausible case I'm open to it. There are a lot of strange things about this case.

Anthony:I'm of the view thats 4/5ths of the way to winning, I have a strong feeling that Kerry has had a say in this before he takes office as the secretary of state, I also believe that he will be the winner for justice for yourself and Ed, also for all future programs of oral history.Here's wishing that this will become a reality.

I'm not disputing that the woman in question was/is a life long republican, what I am questioning is, WHAT MADE HER SAY THAT?, lets not forget , SCAP was supposed to be a dedicated republican, as were the rest of the touts, now, I will state, I have never meet the woman in question who spoke those words. But we have to deduce things as they arise, although this is going back in time, that statement still haunts me. But I think you are trying to tell me, and, others, she actually saw her own house being scanned for bugs, am I correct?, If I am correct then why weren't those who were scanning for bugs reported?. Its imperative, not just for me, but for future generations to get to the bottom of things and find out the truth, would you not agree on that?, but on a serious note, What if the CHIEF SPY IS STILL ACTIVE and SCAP has been set up, thats just a theoretical scenario.

" the three you refer to excludes Sandy, then it is pretty well known who they are. The fourth has been the subject of some discussion."

Disinformation by the enemy is the ruination of any Freedom fighting force ,if that force can dicipher that disinformation then it will have the upper hand!. I meant two plus sandy, then Mad Hatter (Bangers) turns up and gets lifted, and there's me asking you, so you met No 5?, I don't mean any disrespect in that question, For future reference I was just curious from £ in that house, now turns out to be 4, then turns out to be 5!.Would it be illogical to state that number 5 in question was actually No1. That's who I deduce it, because of your conversation with him. Very astute and quick thinker that man is, he may make himself look to be the FOOLISH ONE. Will We Ever know?. I sure as hell need to find out, as you and others do.

itsjustmackers.Your deduction is wrong. The quip was made tongue in cheek and made with reference to a bizarre but sadly not unique situation.When it began to emerge that senior members of the internal security unit in the house were agents as well as the so called hostage, she said.'Maybe I would have been better ringing the RUC and telling them I had a house full of informers and only one tied up'Nothing sinister, nothing shady just a quip.The difference between this woman and Scap is, he was a fully paid Agent acting out the role of a dedicated Republican and she was a dedicated Republican no more no less.

You will just have to do the maths and work it out to your own satisfaction. The detail you ask of Nuala about whether the woman did this or that will hardly give you the definitive answer you claim is an imperative to get. The woman was being facetious about it and made a witty comment. It is no more an imperative here than in other cases and there are plenty of them. You could spend an aeon trying to uncover them.

If you use an abacus board to tot up touts then you only get to count what you see. This is why I think the stress on who was arrested or who was in the house is the wrong way to go. It also focuses in on too small a group of people. If we say there were five and we can only name five at the house then there is an assumption that they make up the five. That would be wrong. There was a much wider circle of people involved in this thing.

The Chief Spy may still be active. Who really believes that Scap was the top one? When Brian Rowan said at some discussion in West Belfast in recent years that one of the top IRA touts had not been uncovered Morrison challenged him and said that this could be disinformation; same as he said about Scap. I don’t think Rowan was making it up. So, the disinformation you talk about being put out is put out by people in the ‘freedom fighting force’. Who tried to mislead us about Scap after he was outed? We need to ask why.

Belfastgit,It's no problem! I just think sometimes people, not yourself by any means tend to put their own slant on someone.And you are absolutely correct in saying that story is the one that has been currently doing the rounds.I have known him longer than I care to remember and while I cannot vouch for any other aspect of his character, I that particular aspect is not true.

to be fair, I never found him cowardly. I know people who were not fans of his but did make the observation that he didn't lack in courage. In jail one of the reasons I liked him was because he did face down the crowd and made it easier for others to express their view. But he has failed to challenge it since getting out although that can't be put down to not having the bottle. He would rather savage and smear those that don't see it as he does.

Fionnuala:I was in no way trying attempting to run that good Republican lady down, Curiosity can get the better of people at times, my curiosity was, and, still is, How did scap get away with it that day.

Anthony:

I understand what you mean, Could Be, But Maybe not, I don't think we will ever know the truth. But there is no harm in trying to pursue it.

I do not know either women personally but I am appalled how both have been treated in life and in Dolours case - death. Deepest sympathy to her family at this difficult time. I can only but admire and respect someone so tenacious, principled, courageous and unbroken unlike those who have abandoned purity in their hearts, strength in their arms and truthfulness in party political actions to match their speech and spin.

How did Scap. get away with it 'itsjustmackers', probably because he was a protect species. I'd hazzard a guess that someone either in PSF leadership or someone within the then Army Council knew too and deflected suspicion away from him.

But as you said, we'll never know unless like Anthony pointed out a few weeks back..Historians, investigative journalists and researchers will uncover the truth one day.

It is not those who can inflict the most, but those that can suffer the most who will conquer.My utmost respect to someone, who I never knew personally, who remained tenacious, unbroken, courageous and principled to the end despite many around her who abandoned purity in their hearts, strength in their arms and truthfulness in their actions to match their empty speeches and political duplicity. Rest in peace Dolours.

"I'd hazzard a guess that someone either in PSF leadership or someone within the then Army Council knew too and deflected suspicion away from him."

Well, we know who took over the Army council so as they could call their own ceasefire's! and get into power. But they seem to think they are untouchable, as you stated; Anthony said, ".Historians, investigative journalists and researchers will uncover the truth one day." In my opinion, Scap wasn't hit because he threatened to expose the real stakeknife and stated that he had tapes and docs left with someone just in case, Its just my way of thinking.

ItsjustmackersScap had apparently been at it since the 70s so he was well versed in cover up and espionage.Turned apparently because he was disappointed by low moral standards in the IRA which sounds quite bizarre.I did not think you were running her down , i was just trying to give a clearer picture.

Think the problem is SF have been organising so long and people are 'tired'. No-matter how foul the leadership smells, SF is well rooted in. A new party from scratch would be a monumental undertaking... most people just go zzzzzzzzzzzzzz 'over-it'.

Larry; I honestly think eirigi are making good headway in building themselves up from scratch. Theyre not aligned to any military group either.

I was reading through some of their stuff - policies etc, and there's not much to complain about. Their activists are out on the streets hammering away at real issues, very often on the quiet.

I've spoken to a few of them too and what surprised me with them is that there appears to be no malice or bad vibes towards SF, they just seem focussed on their own business and don't appear to be bothered about who's doing what, just concentrating on their own work.

Of those I spoke to, they readily admitted that they didn't have all the answers. They were only certain that what's passing today for government, equality, justice etc isnt working & have decided to put their shoulder to the wheel and change it.

Larry; I've been curious about them for a long time and have kind of watched them from a distance, they're pulling in a lot of young people from all over the whole island, who together with the 'oul hands' who've been knocking around the RM for years, are emerging as quite a dynamic group. Their statements are well-thought out and articulate and they pulled a blinder at the council elections in west Belfast. I've heard Shinners running them down and that can only mean they're threatened by them.

I'm not one for joining parties myself but if I was, they'd be my party of choice.

Just read that piece. I doubt if Hillary Clinton will do anything to upset the apple cart in regards to the tapes, and , as the piece states, "The Flag Protests" In my opinion they are in Your's and Eds Favour. Lets keep Kerry to his word.

I don't want to keep harping on about Danny Morrison's opposition to the Belfast project (I think he's wrong in supporting the return of the tapes).

But he said this last year on his blog..

Had a few more of the participants who Anthony interviewed had died, prior to the issuing of the subpoena, nothing would have prevented the fearless and courageous Ed from publishing Volume II of ‘Voices From The Grave’, just as he did with Volume 1

Last Sunday on RTE's This week show Ed. Moloney said several of the interviewees had passed away. He didn't say when or if they were republican or loyalist. The more I read about it, the more I am coming to the conclusion that Danny 'Bangers' Morrison doesn't know as much about the project and who was involved as he thinks..

I think the argument can be made that he has tried to do both. He has tried to undermine the project. But he has not left it at that. He has consciously made the argument that the British police want made and has made virtually no argument against the British police.

I would live to be proved wrong in my misgivings about him but I see nothing that would make that likely.

I think one problem that might hamper eirigi is the past strategic orientation of some of its key people. I guess that virtually everybody that left the Provisionals probably feels they should have left earlier but many eirigi members left after they had pushed through and in some cases forced through the defeat of the republican dimension of the Provisionals.

This without doubt made it difficult for those trying to highlight what was happening in the Provisionals but also put the SF leadership in a virtually unassailable position. They were allowed to slaughter every sacred cow and when the last one was slaughtered some began to say let’s save the cows and took up with eirigi. Their acknowledgement of the problem is to be welcome but I think it was probably too late in the day to salvage anything.

And while it is pointless getting into a ‘everybody should have left when I did’ basket this sort of problem needs some reflection even if for no reason other than the type of structures of communication that are needed in terms of internal discussion. It would be a disaster to have another 'leadership led' republican body.

Anthony you have hit the nail on the head re Eirígi,s biggest recruitment flaw,the fact that some in the leadership left q$£ at a late stage makes people wonder just what their real agenda is," and while its pointless getting into should have left when I did " scenario but it is also important that people who claimed to be principled republicans explain why they allowed themselves to go as far down the Q$£ cul desac that they did ,,it may say a lot about their ability to lead and foresight required of those who would assume political leadership,we have the example of a now independent republican councillor becoming involved in the various ongoing campaigns yet not so long ago this person and her party were calling the very same people traitors and criminals,this q$£ behaviour is what we expect from that party but to tell us that because Mc Guinness shaking the queens hand was the last straw and expect people to accept that as a reasonable excuse is akin to pissing down my back and telling me that its raining, its a problem Eirígi has to deal with it needs to get its or some of its past sorted before we can really move forward .

at the Sinn Fein Ard-feish, 161 comrades walked ot, 287 could not get in, SF rigged everything, That was Eirigi's chance of jumping on the band wagon, But, there are those who have, but they are in silent mode, and, for a reason, They will be heard off in the not to distance future.Our future lies in the Education of our Youth.

"what good is in youth when its agingwhat joy is in eyes that can't seewhen there's sorrow in sunshine and flowersand still only our rivers run free"

for everybody there is a wake up and smell the coffee moment and it doesn't occur at the same time. And rather than criticises them for the sake of it I prefer to go along with the dimension of your critique which focused on the ability to lead and the foresight required. It will take an exceptional ability if anything republican is to be salvaged from the collapse, which unfortunately has not been evident in the past.

Anthony McIntyre

Former IRA volunteer and ex-prisoner, spent 18 years in Long Kesh, 4 years on the blanket and no-wash/no work protests which led to the hunger strikes of the 80s. Completed PhD at Queens upon release from prison. Left the Republican Movement at the endorsement of the Good Friday Agreement, and went on to become a journalist. Co-founder of The Blanket, an online magazine that critically analyzed the Irish peace process.