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MP outing was "gay-bashingwitch hunt"

The revelation that now-former NSW Minister for Transport and Roads, David Campbell, was secretly filmed leaving an all-male sex club by a news programme which then outed him on national television has sparked questions over the morality of 7 News.

Campbell (pictured), who is married with two adult sons, resigned last night in the wake of the story.

Alex Greenwich of the Australian Marriage Equality lobby group was one of several people who contacted Same Same to express their concern over the item. He says he rarely comments on issues away from same-sex marriage, but brands the 7 story a “gay witch hunt.”

“Whether he is gay, bi, curious or confused we need to appreciate that anyone of his generation grew up in a very homophobic Australia, both in terms of social attitudes and laws. Any gay person knows how hard it still is to come out.

“This man has dedicated much of his life to public service, and without any understanding of the psychological issues associated with someone of his generation being able to be comfortable with his sexuality, he is being condemned by the media for walking down the stairs of a gay establishment.”

The story was presented by 7 News as ‘misuse of a government paid car’, but the issue of whether Campbell is secretly gay or not is the real reason he is being targeted, Greenwich concludes.

2DayFM gay radio presenter Geoff Field agrees, describing the outing as “an absolute tragedy in so many ways.”

“This man was obviously living a double life, which has now been exposed to a hungry media baying for blood,” he wrote, adding that “it’s ironic that this should happen, on the very day when gay people are told by an AFL player (Jason Akermanis) to stay in the closet.”

Put yourself in his shoes

After a few amused reactions to last night’s revelations, Same Same’s Forum members were also quick to voice their concern over 7 News’s stakeout. “It’s outrageous that the TV film crew was following him in any case,” a new member wrote. “He was not doing anything illegal by going to Ken’s.”

“I feel sorry for the guy,” a regular poster added. “It’s not really anyone’s business, and who doesn’t use their work car to get around?”

“I’m pretty sure David Campbell has never said anything homophobic or been an advocate for homophobia in Parliament,” typed a third Same Samer. “So no one on this site should take pleasure in his pain. Put yourself in his shoes.”

Who’s next?

The management of Sydney’s Ken’s at Kensington sauna, the sex-on-site premises Campbell was shown exiting in 7 News’ video footage, has so far declined to talk to mainstream media about the story. Manager Bruce Dallas told Same Same this afternoon he was still reluctant to make any comment, but revealed that a TV crew has been filming outside his venue today. “Of course this has had a detrimental effect on business,” he added.

Same Same emailed 7 News this morning to ask what justification it had for ‘outing’ Campbell, and whether further stakeouts outside gay sex venues were planned. So far there has been no response.

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“it’s ironic that this should happen, on the very day when gay people are told by an AFL player (Jason Akermanis) to stay in the closet.”

The social context of both news stories shows how far we have to go to even get at least a basic level of understanding for what LGBT people have to go through. And we don't really know what he himself identifies as, if he does feel the need to at all. But of course complexities like that don't figure in the hunt for a juicy headline. The hyped air of salaciousness just shows how tabloid most of the media really is.

It is a clearly a witch hunt, and it seems to be more about people not likeing public transport than being him getting sex at a gay sauna. But also he did choose to resign rather than fight the issues. He also had a family etc. He chose to use that to win votes. He was to a certain degree, living a lie. He chose that. We all know politicians lie - but it doesn't help if he looks like he's not being truthful about who he is. It's not about him being gay. It's what his deception could signify. If this was a priest, we wouldn't be having this conversation would we?

It's nice to see that out of all this some pollies are weighing in and being level headed about the situation. I'm taking note of which side of the fence people sit on in the issue weighing in with Campbell or Walters, in a way the high exposure is giving us more potential power in government, Campbell would have made a lot of political friends where as Walters just pissed people off. If someone as conservative as David Koch can see that then maybe this is a bizarre step forward.

I can't help imagining what the effect of the story would be on someone who is only just coming to terms with their sexuality - what the media reports imply is that being gay is shameful, and that being gay means you have to quit your job if anyone finds out. Shame on the media, it is salacious and cowardly reporting.

she didn't fire him, as far as we know he resigned and she accepted his resignation, which she shouldn't have done

also:[QUOTE=http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/05/21/the-minister-the-gay-sauna-and-a-reporter-with-scores-to-settle/]But as premier Kristina Keneally remarked this morning, ministers routinely use their ministerial vehicles for private tasks, including picking up the kids from school.

Adam Walters the reporter involved is a very small man for doing what he has done and the director of News at 7 Peter Meakin has defended him - Shame on both of you!
Keep your head up David - YOu've handled it with great dignity so far.

I'm from Victoria so I don't know how the NSW media are handling this story but I certainly do not have the impression that the media is equating homosexuality with shame. What I think is shameful is having sex behind your wife's back with random men for 25 years. What a low life!

And of course he should have resigned- MPs are held to a different standard to your every day Joe Blow.

Why is it such a big deal that an older man was filmed leaving Ken's Steam room? Yes he was a politician but it was not like he was using tax payers money to attend. Yes he was using his ministerial car but wasn't using his driver so again it wasn't covered by tax payer money. It is sad to think that a man of that generation was not comfortable to come out years ago and had to spend most of his life not being able to live as he wished but as everyone else approved and deemed acceptable. In time to come you would think that a story like this would not cause such controversy that and that he would be comfortable to be an openly gay politician.

He was a politician. Married with kids, and presumably straight to boot.

Considering tax payer pay his wages, it kinda was.

Which is against the rules. Might have been a scapegoat, but still - not allowed.

Tax payers pay for that car to be run and maintained.

So true. It's very sad, but not uncommon.

There are openly gay politicians. The story isn't about being gay. It's about the lie. And considering it'll be another generation before we get gay marriage legalised, it'll be quite a few more before it's acceptable to be a public figure walking out of a sex venue. Gay or straight.

Might not be fair, but thems the breaks working in government, much like the entertainment industry. You belong to the people, because they're interested. This is why we have the daily telegraph and womans weekly.

I believe that Channel 7 has engaged in the worst type of gay bashing, this MP has now been mentaly bashed and is probably feeling absolutly gutted. OK he lived a double life, look at the reson why. Society has forced a lot if not all of us to live a double life or live in denial at some time because society still sends out the message that being gay is wrong and those of us that realise that society has got it wrong no longer care about what homophobes think, in fact I laugh at some of the comments, because it only tells me that some people do not have enough intelligence do any more then function in a basic mode, ie eat and shit is the extent of their abilities. Hopefully now this MP can move to accept himself and learn to love himself, from this low point there can only be one direction for him to go and grow, and that is to accept himself.

I really struggle to understand people commenting who seem to support the manner in which this man has been outed. Being a politician is a job, albeit an elected one, but a job. Yes some people may not morally agree with what he has done, but given nothing illegal has occured - no breach of ministerial conduct, I cannot understand where a television station gets the right to determine it's in the public interest, to run a story that a married man who has visisted a gay sex venue. I think this applies whether he is a politician or not. Even where some people are more in the public eye - this doesn't mean all aspects of their life become open fodder for the press.

Should we ask that all politicians reveal aspects of their sexual preference and activity during elections, maybe I should have the right to know which candidates engage in threesomes, or engage in S&M

The minister, the gay sauna and a reporter with scores to settle
by Andrew Crook

The Channel Seven newsroom has split this morning over the ethics of state political reporter Adam Walters’ icky scoop exposing transport minister David Campbell’s “double life” as a bisexual man.

Campbell, whose wife is battling cancer, resigned immediately after Walters informed the government that Seven was running with the story last night. Apparently acting on a tip-off, Walters and producer Steve Barrett had tailed Campbell to the salubrious gay sauna Ken’s of Kensington on Tuesday, using a concealed camera to snag footage of him exiting the premises.

But Seven staffers say the story, rather than coming from the usual milieu of the ALP factions or the opposition, emanated mostly from the dark sewer of media revenge. Seven and the opposition had been pestering Campbell for weeks over his whereabouts during a notorious traffic jam on the F3 freeway on April 12, but had got precisely nowhere.

On Wednesday, Seven led its news with a Freedom of Information scoop on the Roads and Traffic Authority (RTA) report into the hold-up, but absent from the report was any reference to Campbell’s whereabouts. The minister’s private life had been an open secret in state government and media circles for years. So why did Walters decide to pull the trigger now?

On April 20 in state parliament, Campbell was repeatedly questioned by shadow roads minister Andrew Stoner over his movements on April 12 — specifically what he was doing between 11:40am, when the F3 truck smash occurred, and when the RTA’s ‘contra-flow system’ was finally activated later that evening.

Campbell joked and ducked the question: “As I’ve said, I have absolute confidence in the work that I was doing that day.”

A follow-up inquiry by former police commissioner Ken Moroney is likely to shed more light into the minister’s movements. But speculation is now swirling that Walters will reprise his yarn tonight, claiming Campbell may have been at Ken’s while 20,000 motorists sweated in their cars south of Gosford.

In a brief press conference held as Crikey went to press, Campbell said that while his decision to frequent Ken’s had hurt his family, there had been no impact on his professional life in parliament. On the night of the F3 debacle, Campbell said he was at his ministerial offices and his apartment in Potts Point, from where he conducted several media interviews. His office would release a statement with phone records proving his location later this afternoon.

Yet another explanation for the story is the bad blood that continues to circulate between Walters and the mother of his third child, dumped health minister Reba Meagher. Some sources are claiming the hatchet job on Campbell was payback for Walters’ emotional distress after the power couple’s relationship turned sour last year.

In 2008, Walters famously endured a “short but bruising” stint as the state government’s most senior spin doctor in former premier Morris Iemma’s ‘strategy unit’, where his tryst with Meagher began.

Walters later told the Daily Telegraph, which he would join months later as a staff reporter, that Iemma’s office was “a circus full of clowns” and that he was planning his departure from his first day in the job. The ill-will began after his planned appointment as Iemma’s communication director was nixed when incumbent Glen Byers announced he would be staying on.

With the F3 scandal already on the public’s radar, Walters acted to extract maximum damage against Labor in an election year.

There is also a factional dimension. Walters lost his job in September 2008 after the strategy unit was disbanded under Iemma’s successor Nathan Rees. At the time, Campbell was part of a group of ministers, including Meagher, that had moved against Iemma. While his girlfriend stayed on, the former premier’s treachery had left Walters without a gig.

After joining the Daily Telegraph in early 2009, Walters was accused of giving his lover preferential treatment, which just weeks before had pilloried Meagher with headlines including ‘GRIM REBA’.

David Koch picked up on this obvious conflict this morning, producing this amazing exchange on Seven’s Sunrise:

Koch: “Yeah, Adam, he [Campbell] has led a double life. Let me play devil’s advocate here: yes, he should apologise to his family, there’s no doubt about that. But is it a hanging offence? People make mistakes … to be polite you were involved in a similar situation when you worked at state parliament …”

Walters: “Very briefly.”

Koch: “… with a minister and things like that. Private things happened. So, should they have to resign? Yes they’ve got a lot of explaining to do to their family, but shouldn’t it be left at that?”

One Seven insider told Crikey this morning:

“Adam Walters is the last person who should be throwing stones. He has three children to three different women, and is unable to keep his own p-nis in his pants.”

Walters, who is paid $250,000 a year by Seven, has also been accused of attempting to protect his journalistic integrity by cloaking the headline-grabbing same-sex elements of the story in a sub-plot over Campbell’s use of a “ministerial vehicle”. But as premier Kristina Keneally remarked this morning, ministers routinely use their ministerial vehicles for private tasks, including picking up the kids from school.

the reporter may have had scores to settle, but Channel 7 still made the decision to air the story.

personally i don't think this is homophobia at work. if he had been coming out of a straight swingers club without his wife, the same thing would've happened.

it was foolish of him to think that he wouldn't be found out or even blackmailed about it.

it's a tip to all the youngsters out there. if you want to lead a double life, don't do it in the media spotlight!!!

A few points worth mentioning:

1) Yes channel 7 executives gave the final approval to air the story. Peter Meakin Channel Seven news director has been charged with three serious drink driving offences in 2006 and 2007. Clearly Meakin and Walters are two people which should be determining what is and what is not morally acceptable in society.

2) Channel 7 have now dropped the principal claim (That he used a taxpayer funded car to visist the club) that they relied on to run the story, as it is not in breech of ministerial guidelines. So now 7 rely on the fact that they believe it is of public interest.

3) In proving weather or not it is of public interest, it needs to be determined that it affected his duties as a member of parliament and as a minister. Chanel 7 have presented no evidence that this is the case.

I feel sorry for the guy, and he's no spring chicken, it was even worse when he was deciding to be gay. I just wish gay men would take up the battle a bit more than they did, then these things wouldn't be more noticed than the equal rights rallies.

i have a beef with david campbell - he's a fucking terrible transport minister who peddles out the same spin driven lines we have been hearing for the past decade off costa/scully/ect, and re-announces the same "new buses for sydney"in every state budget - buses that bob car announced over a decade ago.
back to the topic but - YES this is an appaling witch hunt that this man has been subjected to over projected sex life. we should only be allowed to drive the boot into david campbell about how shitty of a transport minister he is.
channel 7 had no right to film what they did, and then air the footage.
another aspect of it is but that he's done the dirty on his missus for 25 years, thats nothing to be none too pleased about

But why the fuck wasnt it produced when they did this ? then maybe Ch 7 and that turd of a reporter wouldnt be copping so much flak.

If there is no more dirt then the turd reporter should be sacked and Ch 7 made to pay.

As for the Party local warming..... just how much can they do ? in the paper they keep talking about the Labour power brokers Tripodi and Obeid. They didnt want Sartour so gave the job to someone else.

It got me to thinking how can they be considered power brokers when everyone they seem to install fails ? how much influence do these trolls exert so that no minister can do a thing right ? I loathe politics but these 2 trolls seem to be burying the party.

But back to Campbell. His poor family and his sons ! finding out your father is gay but also the whole world finding out at the same time.

I'm glad its Marr responding to this and not other activists. I like the way he writes most of the time.

As for the Party local warming..... just how much can they do ? in the paper they keep talking about the Labour power brokers Tripodi and Obeid. They didnt want Sartour so gave the job to someone else.

.

im not sure im quite getting your point?

yeah thats pretty awefull about his sons having to deal with this issue in such a public fashion

how is it different to his employment? He is an MP and in government. ie he has power. Power is dangerous if not handled correctly - just look at the state of our state to see what happens when people with power use it incorrectly. look at police corruption and what the honest police have to be put thru because corruption is so damaging.

he left himself open to blackmail - which means he didn't do his job properly. It's the same thing as a footballer being held responsible for drinking too much in public because they are role models. The footballer can't cry foul and say "but i don't want to be a role model" when the only reason they get paid so much is because precisely because they are in the media spotlight. Netballers who get paid a pitance can get away with it because they aren't in the spotlight and recognisable, nor at they huge role models for thousands of kids.

same here. MPs get lots of perks that the rest of us dont. They are afforded services we aren't (like big fat super annuation payments). So they implicitly are expected to have a higher standard of personal behaviour - including in their public life. that's what politics is.

no-one forced him to get into politics. he may have been forced to marry a woman and stay in the closet 30 years ago, but at some point between then and becoming an MP, he had lots of choices to either:

a. get out of public life

or

b. separate from his wife so that he wasn't open to blackmail because he was living a double life.

or

c. sacrificed his sexuality for his public life and the marriage he wanted.

or

d. separated from his wife and came out publicly as a gay man who was (reasonably) competent at being a minister in this (sorry) government (my preferred option).

yes it's easier said than done, but he isn't a school teacher, he isn't your local plumber.

he is (was) a guy who made major decisions about things that affected people's lives on a grand scale.

and to put that at risk of corruption and blackmail is the reason why he shouldn't of been there.

he had lots of choices that he could've taken but didn't. And that left him at the mercy of that idiot journalist.

and to call it a homophobic witch hunt lessens the outrage when people who really ARE victims of homophobic witch hunts go thru it.

it's not homophobic and it's not a witch hunt. it's just a persons career crumbly because of bad personal choices clashing with political point scoring.

yeah thats pretty awefull about his sons having to deal with this issue in such a public fashion

just meant everytime you read about change they talk about those power broker
knobs Tripodi and Obeid. So I was wondering how good can the ministers be if these
2 are pulling the strings ?
posters criticise ministers for not doing a good job but are they constrained in what they can do/spend etc. Seems no one is ever happy with Transport Minister.

You are making a tenuous correlation between someone visiting a steamroom and police corruption?!?!?!

Bill Clinton stayed in power.

no I'm making a connection between having a massive secret in your life which you don't want exposed and the possibility of this being taken advantage of. Unquestioned integrity is what is required when you have lots of power. And yes there are lots of people without integrity who have more power than him, but it doesn't alter his facts, it just means the others are getting away with it.

Bill Clinton may have stayed in power but this guy resigned. Hw wasn't sacked - unless you have other information. If you do let us know because it changes the situation somewhat.

no I'm making a connection between having a massive secret in your life which you don't want exposed and the possibility of this being taken advantage of. Unquestioned integrity is what is required when you have lots of power. And yes there are lots of people without integrity who have more power than him, but it doesn't alter his facts, it just means the others are getting away with it.

Bill Clinton may have stayed in power but this guy resigned. Hw wasn't sacked - unless you have other information. If you do let us know because it changes the situation somewhat.

Ah, I see the witch burning of David Campbell is continuing right here on SameSame.

My point was Bill Clinton, as president of the worlds largest super power, was definitely more in a position to be taken advantage of, with heaps more at stake, yet he stayed in power and is generally well respected.

Oh yeah, he's their favourite president now. They've elevated him to god-like status because they've realised he did a bloody good job.

Monica Lewinsky chewing his fat should have been completely irrelevant. People get so hung up about crap. John Howard sends troops to be killed in Iraq and we're waggling our fingers at David Campbell going to KKK! Sheesh!

He is not the only married man/woman with children hiding their sexuality and won't be the last. I know quiet a few - my ex's aunt, my neighbour and friend's of friend's, let alone all those you meet at beats and sauna's - hey I was having an affair with a guy who later married and had kids. And there is still a lot of young gays not out of the closet yet and some who may never come out because of family and society pressures on them. David Campbell, myself and many others grew up in a time when homosexuality was a crime and deemed a disease. It's no wonder many chose the road of marriage and children to hide their sexuality and only acted on their urges with utmost discretion and secracy (so they thought).

Thankfully society is slowly coming around to accepting homosexuality for what it is - just another varience of humankinds sexuality. I long for the day when it is fully accepted and we are not verballed and bashed for being who we are.

Give the man the respect and sympathy he deserves and direct your anger at the Reporter and Chanel 7 News Team for this ugly outing.

disregarding his performance as a minister for a moment (given that was not the reason for him standing down anyway), i believe there is a bigger structural issue here. this case highlights the level of homophobia in our society that still exists when a man decides that he cant (or wont) come out for fear of being persecuted. its easy now in hindsight to say that he could have come out in later life as things have changed since he was younger, and arguably they have, we have bob brown and penny wong, for example, as opennly gay politicians. however, david campbell never had the luxury of hindsight - and there are plenty of david campbells out there, who, for whatever reason, make a decision not to come out, or, in his own words, live a double life. (god knows, i did it for a while, and i know others on this site have too). that some would say we are a more tolerant society now than a few decades ago is true, but we still have a long long way to go to achieve equality and reduce homphobia, and comments earlier this week by jason akermanis only highlight the gap that still exists. i wonder how a young gay footballer, or indeed, his family memebers, feel after hearing jason's comments? and i can only imagine that they may then empathise with david campbell's thought process. and its only 18 months ago that the catholic education office issued a directive on behalf of the secondary schools in nsw that come under its auspice, that same sex partners would not be allowed at school formals. what is the message underpinning this? unless, and until, there is equality and freedom from discrimination, there will be many more stories like that of david campbell. that, in my opinion, is the real tragedy

Great comment from Michael Kirby
http://mumbrella.com.au/michael-kirby-seven-are-serial-homophobes-for-outing-david-campbell-and-they-hounded-my-friend-to-death-26164

Michael Kirby: Seven are serial homophobes for outing David Campbell and they hounded my friend to death

Former High Court Justice Michael Kirby today accused the journalists of the Seven Network of being “serial homophobes” over the outing of transport minister David Campbell, and accused the broadcaster of hounding former Law Society president John Marsden to death.

His comments came in a speech to about 700 people at the TEDx Sydney conference.

The network secretly filmed the married politician entering a gay sex club in Kensington. Campbell immediately resigned his post.

Kirby told the audience:

“The newsroom of Channel Seven should hang their heads in shame. They are serial homophobes.”

Kirby also referred to the late John Marsden, former president of the Law Society of New South Wales.

In the mid 1990s, the Seven Network made a series of allegations alleging that Marsden had sex with minors. Marsden successfully sued in a marathon legal case.

The final amount the Marsden received from Seven was never revealed. But when the High Court ordered a new trial in 2002 to take into account Marsden’s hurt feelings, the network settled for a reported $6m to $9m dollars.

Marsden died of stomach cancer in 2006 after an illness of around four years. Kirby delivered the eulogy at his funeral.

Today Kirby told TEDx: “They hounded him to his death.”

Kirby’s speech received loud applause from the audience.

The outing of Campbell has by Seven has sparked furious debate over the journalistic ethics involved.

At the time of posting, Seven had not responded to Mumbrella’s request for comment.

One has to wonder if deep down David Campbell was sick of living a secret gay life so perhapes he thought "stuff it, if I get caught out I get caught out", I mean he must have had some idea that he would get caught out sooner or later.

I don't think that if your wife has serious cancer you do have thought processes like that coast boy. Regardless of his sexual persuasion it is my understanding that he and his wife had come to some kind of agreement regarding it and still held a close bond. Really it's his family that got hurt most, imagine how that poor woman feels going into chemo and seeing the shit seven spins out up on the monitors and the people around her whispering or snickering or offering her pity.
I don't think the guy is that selfish, I just think whenever he worked out his preferences his life was already set in motion, and the irony of politics is most of them rely upon reputation.

you're making it sound like his only choice was to be an MP who was either married to a woman or completely out to the public.

those are just two extremes of the choices he had. There were plenty of others. like not being in public life where his double life wouldn't come under the same scrutiny. separating from his wife and being a "divorced" MP who didn't disclose his sexuality. plenty of ways he could go. All he had to do was think creatively (apparently that's one of our strengths according to another thread).

But you make a good point that the structures in our society are still a problem. Yes homophobia is rife in society, but we still make the choices about how to live our lives even with the limited choices that we have.

personally I blame religion for most of it. If we just got rid of that imaginary man in the sky who people think tells us how we should live our lives, we would all be better off.

Kirby also referred to the late John Marsden, former president of the Law Society of New South Wales.

In the mid 1990s, the Seven Network made a series of allegations alleging that Marsden had sex with minors. Marsden successfully sued in a marathon legal case.

The final amount the Marsden received from Seven was never revealed. But when the High Court ordered a new trial in 2002 to take into account Marsden’s hurt feelings, the network settled for a reported $6m to $9m dollars.

Marsden died of stomach cancer in 2006 after an illness of around four years. Kirby delivered the eulogy at his funeral.

Today Kirby told TEDx: “They hounded him to his death.”

see THAT was a homophobic witch hunt!! but that didn't get the same kind of coverage because people didn't like John Marsden.

you have to wonder if the person being "persecuted" has alot to do with how outraged we all are.

maybe or maybe he'd just rather keep a friend around that he's had for 25 years who has supported him, you don't know that he is actually defining himself as gay, he may have been sexually active with his wife until she was diagnosed. You have no idea, you are just speculating and your aggression is coming from that uncertainty. Give the guy a break, and his family, you obviously can't put yourself in his shoes and understand that his socialisation process is different to yours and also his gender definition.

I really think the only thing the guy did wrong and unthinkingly(I made up a word) was to use his work car for an act which is frowned on in society. Honestly though it's not that dissimilar to having a bat in the office toilet when you are bored. It's not really professional but you might do it if you are bored and horny. You might also get caught on camera doing it, and the repercussions would be you get fired. Now because the stakes are much higher in this scenario so are the consequences.

But lying to his electorate... are you serious? What has sexuality got to do with politics at all aside from the fact that being non-hetero and married it slightly limits his ability to sleep his way to the top? It's unnerving that someone with a different sexual persuasion to the hetero-norm is so vehement about this, why do we need to judge people by who they fuck, especially politicians, all they are is talking heads, for all intents and purposes they may as well be eunuchs or castratos you don't need to know as it should not define how they perceive the world and their constituents.

He's a married man.
In the media because he is the minister for transport.
and he goes to Ken's, which is on a busy road.

Sorry, but.........hahahahahaha.....you're not serious?

A prominent high-profile married man also having Gay sex on the side? :eek:

Wow, I think we really should burn him at the stake immediately.

I doubt there has ever been another prominent high-profile married man who has ever had regular Gay sex. :rolleyes:

Actually, I'm not really sure acts of Gay sex should be legal. Maybe they should change that. And then the whole issue of people committing adultery....surely we need to jail them for 20 years at least?

if that is the case, then it actually makes it worse because he stayed married just for the appearances of it.

why couldn't they have separated and "had a close bond"? ie. good friends. why? because being married to a lovely wife of 25 years looks better than being a divorced man at election time.

so that's not deceit to his wife, but deceit to his electorate....

You're way of there.

The world is not Gay and Straight.

A huge proportion apparently is Bi.

He may like sex with other men and has no emotional ties with them but he does have emotional ties with women and enjoys raising children etc.

I have had quite a few guys state this. One just yesterday. Told me he does not feel any emotions towards guys but just loves sex with guys. We gays may think they are fucked in the head about it but you cant discount that its not true for some.

A prominent high-profile married man also having Gay sex on the side? :eek:

Wow, I think we really should burn him at the stake immediately.

I doubt there has ever been another prominent high-profile married man who has ever had regular Gay sex. :rolleyes:

Actually, I'm not really sure acts of Gay sex should be legal. Maybe they should change that. And then the whole issue of people committing adultery....surely we need to jail them for 20 years at least?

just because other people are getting away with compromising behaviour means he should be let off too?

is this the excuse still valid for getting out of a speeding fine? "but officer, i shouldn't be fined for speeding, look at how many other people other speeding and not getting fined!"

how come there wasn't more outrage when John Marsden has LIES told about him by Channel 7? THAT was a case of someone being persecuted for being gay. this guy just made some stupid mistakes - and you've got to admit they were stupid mistakes - and the media took advantage of it. It would've been no different to filming a politician coming out of a heterosexual brothal.

He may like sex with other men and has no emotional ties with them but he does have emotional ties with women and enjoys raising children etc.

I have had quite a few guys state this. One just yesterday. Told me he does not feel any emotions towards guys but just loves sex with guys. We gays may think they are fucked in the head about it but you cant discount that its not true for some.

you are deflecting the issue. in his press conference the next day he said that he was sorry for what he did and that he had brought embarassment to himself and his family.

maybe or maybe he'd just rather keep a friend around that he's had for 25 years who has supported him, you don't know that he is actually defining himself as gay, he may have been sexually active with his wife until she was diagnosed. You have no idea, you are just speculating and your aggression is coming from that uncertainty. Give the guy a break, and his family, you obviously can't put yourself in his shoes and understand that his socialisation process is different to yours and also his gender definition.
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you are right. i am unable to put myself in his shoes because I have never been a member of parliament with access to all of it's privileges. (that's sarcasm). he's not your average joe blow who is trapped in a marriage. he's a career politician who has the intelligence and financial resources to be able to make that difficult transition from being a closeted married gay man to being a divorced gay man. Marriage wasn't intended as being a way of marrying your best friend. That's why so many people in our community are fighting for same sex marriage, because they don't want to be "registered" to their partner as if that person was a dog. They want to be married to them because of the deep and induring intimate sexual relationship they share.

i'm not judging him on his behaviour in 1979 or whenever it was that he got married. I'm judging it on the time he has been in parliament. As I have said before, there are divorce laws in place in this country. Many older gay men have used them to remove themselves from a marriage that they felt compelled to be in when they were much younger and times were different.

what kind of example is this guy setting for others?

"i'm intelligent and have access to sufficient finances, but i'm still a victim of my time?" BULLSHIT!!

There are PLENTY other gay men in less advantageous circumstances who've made the very difficult transition from being a married closeted gay man, to being a divorced man (whether they are openly gay or not afterwards isn't the point). They've had to leave young children behind and cop the blmae from the inlaws because they feel they "ruined" their daughters life. If others can do it, then he should have too.

i'm not saying it's easy - just that it's the right thing to do.

But lying to his electorate... are you serious? What has sexuality got to do with politics at all aside from the fact that being non-hetero and married it slightly limits his ability to sleep his way to the top? It's unnerving that someone with a different sexual persuasion to the hetero-norm is so vehement about this, why do we need to judge people by who they fuck, especially politicians, all they are is talking heads, for all intents and purposes they may as well be eunuchs or castratos you don't need to know as it should not define how they perceive the world and their constituents.

his sexuality would have had nothing to do with his being a good politician if he hadn't used it as a way of showing how he is "the common man". Don't be naive to think that politicians don't use their personal lives when it suits them and then say "my private life has got nothing to do with my job" when it doesn't suit them. He sent out xmas cards of him and his family to his electorate for crying out loud! and he didn't add a bi-line on it (pun intended) saying "this is my intimate friend whom I share a bond with". he presented the picture KNOWING that it would send out the message "look at my beautiful happy family - see we are just like you!"

it wasn't his sexuality that was the problem. it was how he handle the situation he found himself in that was the problem. (and i'm not going to go on about how he opened himself up to blackmail because we've already covered that).

and just for the record, they are not just "talking heads". They actually help create the world you live in a major way! You may think that they are all puppets, but they aren't.

Of course we need to know about how they conduct themselves in their private lives because it reflects on how they conduct themselves in the work lives. He was the police minister previously and then the Transport minister. The way those departments are run has a huge impact of the way our society functions, and thus how you live your life.

Personal scrutiny is something that is a necessary part of many jobs. Footballers have to put up with it. Teachers have to put up with it. Police have to put up with it. In fact anyone in any kind of a job that have some level of working with the public, or is in a corruptable position has to put up with it.

He was responsible for the "needless duplication of the Iron Cove Bridge" at a cost of $175 million.
In charge of the CBD-Rozelle Metro, which "duplicated existing services". Its dumping cost us $500 million.

(These figures are in this morning's Herald and have duplicated from a duplicate thread—one of the many duplicate threads in our increasingly-messy Samesame.

don't even get me started on the shocking state of public transport in this state!! These imbeciles, not matter their sexuality, have completely and utterly stuffed up public transport to the point that even if we started fixing things now, it'll still take 20 years just to catch up!

So much for the "Premier State"!

I should petition SameSame to have an exclusive room where we can complain about public transport, because seriously there'd be that much volume you could have multiple threads going on about it for days and weeks on end.

Nobody has those answers. Except to say he has handled himself well during this and there is nothing to say he would of tolerated blackmail.

Bill Clinton held the rains of the worlds largest super power while having an affair and he retained power despite the apparent risks you highlight. It's ridiculous to think David Campbell is especially bad in that spectrum of upsets in peoples private lives.

I'd question whether he even has access to change someones $79 fine. Doubt it. And in any case there is always more respect for coming clean than there is for blackmail.

And if the blackmail was for something less trivial, there is nothing... NOTHING.. to say he would tolerate blackmail.

just because other people are getting away with compromising behaviour means he should be let off too?

is this the excuse still valid for getting out of a speeding fine? "but officer, i shouldn't be fined for speeding, look at how many other people other speeding and not getting fined!"

how come there wasn't more outrage when John Marsden has LIES told about him by Channel 7? THAT was a case of someone being persecuted for being gay. this guy just made some stupid mistakes - and you've got to admit they were stupid mistakes - and the media took advantage of it. It would've been no different to filming a politician coming out of a heterosexual brothal.

No you have it wrong.
As just posted by someone else he may have had an understanding with his wife. Thats between them.

Where has it been said in public that he had an arrangement with his wife? is it only speculation on this board?

Let's ASSUME he did have an agreement with her. Why was he still happy to trade on the image of being a happily married family man? That doesn't make him in right. it just makes him a manipulative politician who likes to have smoke screens about who he is so that he is more electable. hardly the best way to run a democracy.

and it still leaves him open to blackmail because extortionists will say "I'll tell your boss/the media/your electorate" etc etc.

See if he hadn't of lied like that then he wouldn't be in this mess. If he was a separated/divorced gay man who was outed, then yes, I would be on your side. But he wasn't. he was a married man who went to a gay sex venue.

nobody can blackmail Bob Brown nor Penny Wong about their sexuality because they aren't hiding anything!

Phony Tony is being pillared for admitting he lies. why shouldn't anyone else?

They may have decided to stay as a family to raise their kids. Good on him ! Gays have children.

Yep. Gays can have children. That is true.

But this man is hardly going to get the father of the year award for putting his children through this public mess. Again, it's not his sexuality that is the issue. it's how he acted in the circumstances he found himself in.

Being a closeted politician and STILL putting going to a gay sex venue above the welfare of his sons? if they were under 16, I'd report it to DOCS that they are at risk of psychological harm of being traumatised by the public disemination of their father's sex life in the media. Because he knew there was the possibility of something like this happening.

How do we know he was not going to tell his sons when they got to a certain age or how do we know the boys are already aware ?

I don't know when or whether he was going to tell his sons.

But he obviously misjudged his circumstances because he left it too late though. (they are in their 20s - when was he waiting for?) Again, something he had control over. How is he always the victim in this?

if they already were aware, how the story aired a problem for them?

He lives his life his way not yours. So far he has done nothing illegal.

Tough if you dont agree the way he lives his life.

The same could be said for him.

Tough if he doesn't like how he has been treated by the media. they did nothing illegal.

Besides he's a politician. he knows better than anyone how much the public's view is paramount in how they vote. And he knows it otherwise he would've done something to get him out of this situation.

Look, I'm not saying "lynch him". I'm saying "Please don't call this a homophobic witch hunt because it lessens the cry when there really is a homophobic witch hunt". The boy who cried wolf and all that. I'm sure you've heard the story.

Nobody has those answers. Except to say he has handled himself well during this

absolutely. i agree with this. he made mistakes but he owned up to them - he has faced the media and apologized for his actions. Since he was outed he has been completely honourable.

it's the description of this as a "homophobic witch hunt" that I have a problem with.

and there is nothing to say he would of tolerated blackmail.

but how can we be sure? He may very well have not tolerated blackmail, but can we say the same about others in the same situation?

Bill Clinton held the rains of the worlds largest super power while having an affair and he retained power despite the apparent risks you highlight. It's ridiculous to think David Campbell is especially bad in that spectrum of upsets in peoples private lives.

Never said he was bad. I said he left himself open to blackmail and extortion.

you don't have to have access to nuclear weapons to be able to destroy people's lives. he was minister for police and police have a history of being corrupted. not all of them a crooked, but that's little conciliation to people who have been victims of crooked cops.

I'd question whether he even has access to change someones $79 fine. Doubt it. And in any case there is always more respect for coming clean than there is for blackmail.

And if the blackmail was for something less trivial, there is nothing... NOTHING.. to say he would tolerate blackmail.

are you saying he would come clean over a $78 fine?

he would throw away his privacy, sex life, humiliation of his family in public over a $78 fine?

He would just realise after that $78 blackmail episode that the right thing to do would be to come clean instead of stepping in over something like that?

After years of socialisation that being gay is wrong, that you should get married, that you should stay married, that you shouldn't separate from your wife because you are gay, that you should send xmas cards to your constituents because that is what they want to see, all it would take is one idle threat and he would realise that honesty is the best policy?????

I wish that were true! It would make politics in this state a much better place!!!

The $78 fine is the thin edge of the wedge. It's the first drag of a ciggarette that means you are just that slightly further down a path that is difficult to get out of.

Once you have used your power to waive a $78 fine/waive the rules for someone/do someone a favour to have them not expose you, you are further down the path.

They'll then say "well now I've got more to blackmail you with, you perverted the course of justice by waiving the fine/waiving the rule/using your ministerial privilege to help me, so you'll do this next favour too - because now I won't just expose you as being gay, but expose you a being gay AND corrupt". And thus you get sucked in a little bit more. before you know it you are up to your neck in order to save yourself.

It's the same with police officers. The Police Integrity Commission (PIC) does little things to see if police officers are honest. Like leaving a woman's handbag with a bit of cash or other things left at a crime scene. A police officer might find it and think "it's only 15 bucks/2 ciggarettes/some lipstick in my colour, who's going to miss it?" If the police officers fail that test. They are gone because the PIC know they are corruptable.

unfortunately the PIC equivalent for politicians doesn't do the same testing. That's why we have a free media to help keep them honest.

There is innocent until proven guilty. That's the basis of our legal system.

Ten fold for imaginary blackmail attempts that have not even happened.

Also...

If someone is so weak as to be blackmailed like that, then the same could be said for bribery.

How do you protect against bribery?

Someone visiting a steam room means NOTHING.

Your argument is baseless.

except that the first thing that the government did was assure people that he was never compromised over this situation.

and it's not an "imaginary" blackmail attempts. It's looking at what possibilities might come up so that you can protect a very important system that we have.

if i'd said the first extortion attempt was "make me commissioner of police or I tell your wife" then obviously it's easier for him to say "no that's too high a price". but a $78 fine is more difficult to resist and more realistic. extortionists aren't dumb!

I think people here are so focused on the gay aspect to this story, which is very reasonable considering that this might trigger anxieties in people, that they have forgotten the other part of the story - which is that he was a minister of two very large portfolios in a government lurching from disaster to disaster.

so how do you protect from bribery? that's another thread. (which i'm philosphically quite happy to discuss) but not being able to protect from bribery doesn't mean to don't try to protect yourself from blackmail!

just because other people are getting away with compromising behaviour means he should be let off too?

is this the excuse still valid for getting out of a speeding fine? "but officer, i shouldn't be fined for speeding, look at how many other people other speeding and not getting fined!"

how come there wasn't more outrage when John Marsden has LIES told about him by Channel 7? THAT was a case of someone being persecuted for being gay. this guy just made some stupid mistakes - and you've got to admit they were stupid mistakes - and the media took advantage of it. It would've been no different to filming a politician coming out of a heterosexual brothel.

I think your perception of the way the world works and my perception are completely different.

Seeing all the posts you've done on here about David Campbell confirms that.

Rather than continue to argue with you and possibly say something angry or out of line that I'll later regret, I'll just bow out now.

Agree the media have gone waaay OTT, but I think the comments about how traumatic it is for older people to come out are a bit off the mark - the man is not that old. He has reaped the benefits of his hetero charade, & that insults us all. We can't know what his situation was regarding his family....but I can't be happy with anyone who chooses to live a lie, knowing that so many people get treated badly because they won't.

Surprised Media Watch didn't delve into Adam Walter's former job with the government. I guess talking about him rooting one of David Campbell's ministerial colleagues would've been stooping to the same journalistic level. But there's still a question mark over Adam Walter's ALP connections and motives in this matter.

It might have been a rotten thing to do but I don't see how it is homophobic. So the reporter revealed that Campbell was leading a double life, lying to his family and to the electorate? That doesn't mean he hates gay people, and in no way is it an attack on gays. The word 'homophobic' is used far too freely these days. Just because the person being 'attacked' (or outed or criticised or whatever) is gay or bi doesn't mean homophobia is at play.

I get the homophobic rhetoric, but really if he wasn't outed by channel 7 he would have been outed in a heart beat if the guys in Ken knew he was a minister, or even black mailed him. It happens to straight MPs with hookers as well. Now his private life is out there , he knew it was going to happen. He did not have a plan B and thats all he did wrong. Kennedy and Clinton - and they are rock stars for it