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TIP: The online Bushwalk Inventory System can help bushwalkers with a variety of bushwalk planning tasks, including: Manage which items they take bushwalking so that they do not forget anything they might need, plan meals for their walks, and automatically compile food/fuel shopping lists (lists of consumables) required to make and cook the meals for each walk. It is particularly useful for planning for groups who share food or other items, but is also useful for individual walkers.

Winter camping is not my idea of fun except in NT where walking at 50 deg C in the day does not appeal hence winter plan for Larapinta.

I am 60 kg woman, aged nearly 50 yo. I do feel the cold. I am trying to keep my pack as light as possible since I have osteoporosis from past cancer treatment..

BUT I als want a bag that I am not too hot in. I am aiming for down bag w weight around 1-1.3kg.

I had spied one for comfort of - 5 deg C but wondering if that is too extreme and whether comfort of 0 deg C will be more versatile? Not the rating is the "comfort" i.e. for a woman to have comfortable sleep. The mid and extreme ratings are more like - 6 and - 24 deg C.

If winter camping in the snow is not part of the plan and you were prepared to wear clothing to sleep in as part of your system then 0C may be a little warm, however if you are only going to be sleeping in base layers then it should be OKAssuming you have a sleeping mat system to match.The experienced girls on the forum should now jump in to give some specific ideas and maybe even get that sleeping bag weight down to less than a kilo. I can't help with specifics being an XXL tall and not having recent buying experience in warm weather sleeping bags

Will you be taking a down jacket with you on these trips? What kind of mat are you using?

If you are taking a down jacket and you have an appropriate mat with an R-value around 3-4 you could get away with a zero degree bag.

A Western Mountaineering Summerlite (0 degree comfort) would be perfect. You can shift the down through the baffles so if its too hot you can move it beneath you or if it’s getting cold you can move the down to the top of the bag. And if it gets really cold, which it definitely can in some of those places, you can wear your down jacket to bed to boost the temperature rating.

The summerlite can be unzipped almost all the way and weighs about 500grams. I used mine to at least -1 last weekend in Kosciuszko and was toasty warm. Keeping in mind I am 30yrs old and male so that makes a difference with warmth.

Unfortunately it’s hard to tell what will work for you until you are out there. A modular system (bag and down jacket) will cover you in most situations on your proposed walks.

Kim, welcome to the forum. Keeping a good temperature at night is essential. There's a number of factors.Individual metabolism, which in your case is cool.

Energy expended during the day. Being to tired makes for a colder night.

Air temperature outside - not much you can do about this. However, one option is to camp away from valley floors. Cold air sinks, which is why alpine Australia has frost hollows, where trees do not grow due to the cold.

Air temperature inside the tent. Tents with all mesh inners are cooler than inners with solid walls. However, tents with solid wall inners are heavier than mesh. A balance is having solid walls to about 500 mm from the ground and mesh above this.

Ground insulation. Get a good sleeping mat, and if that is too cold, add a thin closed cell mat knees to head.

Sleeping bag. Many types, many temperature ratings. Pull the sleeping bag over the mouth so as to breathe a mix of expired air (which is warm) and fresh air.

Recent food intake. Having warm high-energy food keeps you warmer.

Clothing. Long clothing that is not too constrictive works well. Add a light hat or balaclava.

You should be able to find a sleeping bag that weighs about a kilogram that works for you. Look at the Marketplace and Special discounts adverts areasviewforum.php?f=13viewforum.php?f=27

Given that some of the lowest nighttime temps around are in the Centre, and snow can occur any time of year on the OT, personally i would aim for something a bit warmer, especially as you know you are a cold sleeper.

Maybe think about one of the custom down quilts available through local cottage manufacturers on this forum (TierGear and underclingmike). That, combined with a good mat, warm fleece or down beanie, down jacket and merino thermals, will keep the weight down and the warmth up, while retaining a great degree of flexibility.

I'd just get the warmer bag to start off with if you are unsure already hikingnewbie. And, yeah, an insulated mat. Even if the bag you buy is tested to a standard, it's still a generalisation, there's a big variation in comfort for many people.

"The guides are all complaining there's mobile reception and hot showers," Godfrey laughs.

Do note that there can be 3 different rating systems for bags, and they mean different things:

COMFORT RATING - The temperature an average man will be comfortable down to.LIMIT - The temperature that a bag can go down to, but you will not be comfortable at that temperature.LOWER LIMIT / EXTREME LIMIT - The temperature down at what point you are likely to become dangerously cold and at risk of hypothermia etc.

A lot of the bags are advertised at their limit rather than comfort rating.

And women tend to sleep colder than men.

I would recommend a bag that was rated around -6 degrees Celc (or 20F American), in order to go down to around 0 degrees.

You basically need to go 5 degrees under the actual temperature you want to camp down to overnight.

No bag can comfortably do all temperatures. If you have one that can zip open, then that way you can stick a leg out in warmer weather or unzip it all the way and have it like a quilt over part of your body.

You also want to get a mat where it's "R rating" or insulation rating matches the approximate temperature as your sleeping bag.

You will need at least 3.2 R Value on your sleeping mat in my view, and ideally as a woman I'd aim for closer to around 4 R value.

As women do tend to sleep colder, they do make mats for women that provide a higher R value insulation and the extra weight is offset by making them slightly shorter length of usually around 168 cm.

So depending on how tall you are, if you're under 168 cm and sleep cold, then a Women's mat could potentially provide a bit more R value and warmth.

Thermarest NeoAir XLite - a popular mat - is 3.2 R value and approx -3 degrees, and weighs 350 grams. It's an airmat with some reflective mylar type fabric and well-reviewed but for the crinkly noise it can make which bothers some people, but is otherwise a very good mat. It's 7 cm thick.

I'd be shortlisting those 3 mats, and go into somewhere like Paddy Pallin or another retailer which stocks them - to try them out. They are all pretty comfortable and pretty warm, and well-rated. But all different feel to them and weight difference and price to weigh up.

Hi Kim, you ask about the temp "recommended". Yes, that temp. would be "COMFORT"i.e you (the average female)would be wearing good thermals,beanie and socks. In most cases women sleep colder than men."LIMIT" is the place you could push it (but should really avoid) with more than thermals i.e. pants over thermals and down jacket over thermal top and thick beanie and thick socks/down booties for example, but really you would only look to do this if you are experienced and well prepared. I would say go for a higher than normal R value, if you are too hot you can always undo/put a leg out --R3-5+. Personally I would go for 5+ for the first time purchase. Sea to summit comfort maybe (the red one and not the lightest but very comfortable) Snowys have the best price often and might be a good place to start, it has two layers-so if one punctures you still have air in the mat.Please check this review for the bag Zapruda mentioned. https://sectionhiker.com/western-mounta ... ag-review/ This bloke knows his stuff and backs up Zapruda's recommendation. Pricey perhaps, but sounds brilliant. I would definitely not go to a quilt until you have used a bag in anger. They are not for everybody, at least at first! And it is cold weather that can really highlight problems-anything is OK when it is mild.You can't be cold whatever happens (!!) as it can lead to risks/problems and so many factors are at play here as one poster said. Gender,fatigue,metabolism,state of fitness/wellness all play a role. It is always better to be a bit warm and be able to wear less than be trying to find more and more clothes during the night when you continue to wake up shivering. We have probably all done it and learned from it!Get a few nights like this and it is very draining/problematic. I know the One Planet bags (Melbourne)can be quite heavy BUT they are renowned as being "true" to the stated ratings for "Comfort". Also do some more research on "EN ratings for sleeping bags"-forewarned is forearmed. All the best.It will work out.PS You ask if a comfort rating of 0C is enough? If you want to ensure a true comfort rating not all bags are equal-The bag above is.-but I would go 5C past that and look for about -5C so if you sleep cold as you said you would be still covered at 0C.

There's a balance between a mat that gives good ground insulation and weight. Variables include length, width, tapered or not, thickness, amount of insulation (nil, thin, cut-outs and expanding foam), weight and cost. What you buy will be a compromise. One way to add good insulation for minimal cost is to have a thin mat, about 3 mm, under the main matt. When snow camping I have a thin mat under the usual mat, and this works well. In summer, if you are concerned about the cold from the ground. One option may be to buy a very light air mat and under this have a thin mat. One negative about the thin mat is that it is much more bulky than the light air mat.

I'd take the thermal ratings on advisement. They give an indication, but in my view that is all.

I'd use a warmer mat than the Ultra lite on its own, the comfort lite plus a CCF mat but I always use at least a 10mm CCF mat, as much for the sleeping comfort as for the small warmth boost but I favour the new S2S mats myself. I know you said you were not interested in snow camping but as a long term snow camper myself just keep in mind that systems use of clothing and if you decide to use clothing to boost your system make sure that the sleeping bag is of a size to allow that clothing to actually be worn inside it. One Planets ratings are EN tested and therefore some assumptions need to be made, EN ratings are taken with the mannequin wearing warm base layers and a hat/beanie; gloves and socks on an insulating pad and under conditions that replicate the use of a tent.WM do not EN test but I find their ratings conservative and accurate. So not just the UL down inside the sleeping bag if cold, warm pants + overpants and a woolly jumper under that downie all add warmth up until the clothing is so thick it squashes the loft and then it isn't adding to the warmth anymore but detracting from it.But first things first is getting a good idea of how cold you personally sleep in the bush. Borrow a few different bags first if you can or hire if you must I think a 5C bag is ample but better to err on the side of caution than to shiver all night during a cold snap. Remembering that a LW fleece plus an UL down parka [ the hood is important ] can add an easy 10 degrees to the lower rating of a sleeping bagAlso a belated welcome to the party

I sleep cold too. I would go a warmer bag- there is nothing worse than being cold. Years ago I did the OT in February and froze in a light at while my friend snores soundly in his downy cocoon.CheersLiz

As moondog suggested You’re probably taking other warm layers - you can always sleep in them if the bag isn’t quite warm enough.You will be taking the warm layers anyway - you may as well integrate them into a sleep system.I spent years in a too hot bag, using it as a quilt mainly - Whilst my warm puffy or fleece sat in my pack or under my pillow.

Eventually I bought a quilt and sleep in warm trousers and my fleece or puffy if it is a very cold night. In saying that, I bought my wife a -7 quilt as she sleeps very, very cold so IMO your personal metabolism is also a massive factor.

While I’m a male, I generally sleep cold. I have a -5 quilt and a NeoAir All Seasons mat (R value 5+) and I wouldn’t have wanted any less on the OLT.

You can have the warmest sleeping bag/quilt in the world, but if you don’t have a well insulated mat you’ll still be cold.

I’d suggest the cottage manufacturers, particularly undercling mike. He’ll be able to do a -8 quilt at around 500g.

It’s much easier to be a little too warm and then stick a leg out, than be too cold and run out of options. Layering can get you out of a jam, but it’s not very comfortable sleeping in a down jacket. Polypro thermals have the best warmth/weight ratio.

I don’t use a liner. I think their “extra heat” ratings are dubious at best. Only good for keeping stuff clean.

To save costs I would do 3 Capes followed by Overland ... and I'd tag on Walls of Jerusalem. If you have the time in one go.

The Overland National Parks 'requirement' is -10C.

The Larapinta will go under 0 C at night .. I have left a billy of water out overnight to have a frozen layer on top of the water .. so it got below 0 at night. That was long ago .. I now put things inside the tent, not only for weather but also wildlife protection. Experiences of others like a dingo taking a boot off in the night and then taking some hours to find it in the morning.

As others have said the sleeping bag ratings are for people wearing thermals, what they have not said is that the thermals used in the rating system are dry. In other words not used and sweaty or damp from rain. The same needs to be said about wearing anything inside a sleeping bag - it needs to be dry in order that it does not reduce the sleeping bag warmth. I keep the sleeping thermals for sleeping only, they get packed with the sleeping bag.

The 'comfort rating' is for women, 'lower limit rating' is for men, about 6 C difference.

As others have said - being able to 'kick a leg and or are out' is usefull. I have found it most usefull to be able to open the foot box area but keep the shoulder area closed ...

There are lots of things I would like for my ideal sleeping bag. Not found yet. Maybe I should make my own? Presently I have a -4C bag that I will use together with another lesser sleeping bag, chosen from my extensive selection, to get that -10 C rating for the Overland.

For a sleeping mat I take both an inflatable mat and a foam mat. If the inflatable punctures the foam one won't and I'm not relying on a puncture repair. The foam mat goes under the tent and protect it too. And the foam mat can be used during the day to sit on.

Luckily for sleeping bag and quilt makers we are all different. Liners are a very personal issue, I stopped using them 30 + years ago, finding clothing added more warmth and kept my sleeping bag just as clean but I now have to go and weigh my UL down parka; OK I had to double check; 320 grams in XXL and a lot warmer in real terms than the same weight in a liner but YMMV.

The UL duvet is from Uniqlo and I do recommend getting a couple when they go on sale. There are much warmer down parkas out there but not ones with such value for this application. I do think tho that if you have a garment for sleeping in an attached /integral hood is essential for warmth.comfort but also to keep the SB clean

Moondog55 wrote:One Planets ratings are EN tested and therefore some assumptions need to be made, EN ratings are taken with the mannequin wearing warm base layers and a hat/beanie; gloves and socks on an insulating pad and under conditions that replicate the use of a tent.WM do not EN test but I find their ratings conservative and accurate. So not just the UL down inside the sleeping bag if cold, warm pants + overpants and a woolly jumper under that downie all add warmth up until the clothing is so thick it squashes the loft and then it isn't adding to the warmth anymore but detracting from it.But first things first is getting a good idea of how cold you personally sleep in the bush. Borrow a few different bags first if you can or hire if you must I think a 5C bag is ample but better to err on the side of caution than to shiver all night during a cold snap. Remembering that a LW fleece plus an UL down parka [ the hood is important ] can add an easy 10 degrees to the lower rating of a sleeping bagAlso a belated welcome to the party

@Moondog55 - sorry to labour this but are you saying I should be skeptical about OnePlanet ratings? I was looking at the Cocoon either - 5 or-8 with 800 Loft which weighs about 800g.

And thanks for the welcome - lots of wisdom here - lots for me to learn from.

No Not at all, OP take their rating seriously but they use the MALE rating in their sales catalogues and it is important that you take note of thisOP do specifically state that they use the EN male rating in advertising, so for a female you need to add 6 degrees and then add a few more if you are a cold sleeper or over 35YO. This is the EN Comfort temperature But I myself simply prefer to use clothing to get the warmth I need. I rate OP highly re customer service and value for money; S2S may have a slight warmth to weight edge so if I was buying new from OP I would always pay for the higher FP down rather than buy on initial cost.My own sleeping system is based on an old bag from OPs predecessor J&HI have a whole thread dedicated to the Cocoon, I think it is the pick of the bunch myself, a -8 rated Cocoon is -2 for a female or 0C for a female over 35YO but under 60YO [ it is an unavoidable age related lowering of sleeping MET, my own -35C system is now only a -20C system due to my own lowering of MET while in deep sleep; it is approximately 5C per decade after 35YO on average

Thanks everyone for all of the comments - feeling a little overwhelmed.

I was tempted by a Mountain Designs 0 deg C rating (women's comfort) bag that was on clearance at a good price but it's since sold out while I deliberated so I will take that as a sign it wasn't for me! The long one was still in stock so I did buy that for my teen son who is very tall - it was only $99 - and he sleeps pretty warm - so I figured I can't really go wrong in the warmers months at that price...

I will try to borrow a bag for the upcoming 3 Capes trip and keep looking for "the one" foor me over the next few months. I will look in the re-sales thread too.

Good suggestion to do both 3C and OT in Tas at once but unfortunately only have under a week off work and travelling w 3 other ladies who don't like idea of tenting which is on the cards for OT during the busy season. It will have to be for a future time.

hikingnewbie wrote:Thanks everyone for all of the comments - feeling a little overwhelmed.

I was tempted by a Mountain Designs 0 deg C rating (women's comfort) bag that was on clearance at a good price but it's since sold out while I deliberated so I will take that as a sign it wasn't for me! The long one was still in stock so I did buy that for my teen son who is very tall - it was only $99 - and he sleeps pretty warm - so I figured I can't really go wrong in the warmers months at that price...

I will try to borrow a bag for the upcoming 3 Capes trip and keep looking for "the one" foor me over the next few months. I will look in the re-sales thread too.

Good suggestion to do both 3C and OT in Tas at once but unfortunately only have under a week off work and travelling w 3 other ladies who don't like idea of tenting which is on the cards for OT during the busy season. It will have to be for a future time.

My wife has a Mountain Designs Travelite 700 that has been used once I think that I'd be interested in selling.. I think it's a -3 bag.. will check tonight if you would be interested.. it's a touch over 1kg though ??

hikingnewbie wrote:Thanks everyone for all of the comments - feeling a little overwhelmed.

Your not the only one.

Firms hire bags for the Overland .. think they would do the same for the 3 capes. If you get stuck that is an option, but bring your own sleeping sheet .. the ones I have bought don't do the head/hood area .. so you will need to add that bit. You can buy that now and do the required modifications.

Oh, best sleeping sheets are silk .... $1 a meter on fleebay but with Chinese New Year they won't ship till March .. so delivery mid to late march.

hikingnewbie wrote:My wife has a Mountain Designs Travelite 700 that has been used once I think that I'd be interested in selling.. I think it's a -3 bag.. will check tonight if you would be interested.. it's a touch over 1kg though ??

I had also spied this one for $99 plus $15 delivery at the closing down sale and went to get it - by the time I checked out it had sold out so I missed out and yes, it is about 1.3kg but for the price of $114 delivered I thought it a fab deal.

hikingnewbie wrote:Thanks everyone for all of the comments - feeling a little overwhelmed.

It can be overwhelming. One remedy is to break it into smaller parts. Sleeping bag or quilt.If sleeping bag, what shape.Type of zip, length, left or right.How heavy, how much fillReputable and other brands.New or second hand.Price range.Weight range.

For sleeping mats it's similarStandard or 3/4 length.Rectangular or tapered.With or without insulation.If insulation, how much.

If the job is broken up like this it usually becomes easier. Work through the options and develop a range of unacceptable-acceptable-unacceptable. For example, a sleeping bag may range from Under 900 grams unacceptable - too light900-1200 grams acceptable, seems about rightover 1200 grams unacceptable - too heavy.

The above is just a guidance, an example, not gospel. While all the items can be considered at once, it assist to give most of the focus on one item at a time. These are major purchases in terms of dollars and time; with care they should last 10 or more years.

All else being equal it took me decades to work out that I was warmer I I took a lighter sleeping bag and a warmer mattress, but my old Thermarest is still going and is still my fall-back. Luckily sleeping warmth and sleeping comfort can be combined into one unit these days but I am a cautious bloke and don't mid carrying the extra 300 to 500 grams so I always carry a CCF pad in addition to my blow-up.So my suggestion is to allow enough in the budget for a really good system underneath you. Other people seem to be able to use quilts to well below freezing, I can't, for me a quilts lower limit is about 12C but the combination of a LW or UL quilt plus a LW or UL sleeping bag sees me good to below freezing. Speaking as a conservative old bloke every gram saved on the back seems to add a zero to my credit card debt