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I know, I for one, love characters with flaws, so a character with one or two flaws does not bother me. In fact it makes me like them, the fact that they're not perfect is what's so interesting. However, in Ranka's case there are just more than character flaws. This is a case of a little girl who just doesn't want to grow up, who'd just be happier staying in her perfect little bubble world. In the Macross world Ranka is almost an adult ( the legal age is 17) so that is also something else to consider. Ranka is like Shiho from Mai-hime, but in Ranka's case Alto was unaware of how she felt, and really how could he know? All she ever did was ask him for advice, she never put herself forward in a manner to show that she liked him. Alto only met her in episode one. That's why I can't stand Alto being called dense, because face it in that situation anyone would be.

I signed up in the school of its not the destination that's important its the journey. So when I see that a character has done wrong the entire series, I don't care if everything ended up alright because it doesn't erase what they did.

The thing with Ranka is that she looks young, and I'd bet anything that if she looked older, or just wasn't cute people would be a lot less forgiving.

Such is the power of moe.

If Ranka and Sheryl kept their character designs but switched roles in the plot, a lot of these people would be tearing Sheryl a new one right about now. I can just see it.

Um, no. I´d be uncomfortable because Sheryl was assigned a much more mature role, and her looking like a loli would make things a bit awkward.

But the general character development is independent of a characters look. People love Sheryl because she is a great person and she and Alto fit together.

I guess you misunderstood me. I was saying that both Sheryl and Ranka keep their designs, but have Sheryl act the way Ranka did in the series and you'd be hard-pressed to find people who'd defend her actions. Frankly,I've always thought that the only reason people are even defending Ranka's actions at this point is because they can't see past her moeness.

By your logic if a 16 year old mass murderer were to get caught, and in their own defense claim that they did it because they were told to, even though they had a choice not to. You would let them off the hook just because in your mind if a person is manipulated they should automatically be forgiven for any crimes they have committed, and their crimes erased. Would you seriously say that to the faces of the friends, and family of the victims?

Comparing Ranka with a 16 year old mass murderer is somehow funny now. Before you read my answer on that I want you first to read something as you bring up a mass murderer into the discussion:

Seriously if a kiddo runs wild and starts to massacre the law will always wants to find out why did he do it. this means it will be checked what has influenced him/her to do such a behavior. As you bring it up. Video games like Doom, Duke Nukem or even Movies like Evil Dead got indexed or lost on brutality due bad influences on children.

Back to Ranka:

Quote:

The thing with Ranka is that she looks young, and I'd bet anything that if she looked older, or just wasn't cute people would be a lot less forgiving.

I say this is half correct. It always depends on the situation what she did. The problem we have here is that some have a high expectation on her because of the situations and making - let's say - questionable decisions. As someone who views her from an ankle with a not higher expectation on her character (not meaning to discredit her but viewing a strong character with weaknesses) then you are able to understand her more.

btw. mechabao you are making a very interesting theory by switching the roles and the behaviors. By trying to image it in my mind I had the image of Kuran Seriously. It' s a bit hard to view but I am very intersted on how it would have impact on the viewers.

__________________

Born the same day as Satoshi Urushihara... Ill fated?

Last edited by Father Hentai; 2009-01-08 at 17:40.
Reason: corrections but I think my english is stilll worse :/

Obviously look is important, but I admire Ranka's willingness to break out from Leon's and Grace's control and go out and find a possible co-existant between human and vajra..(she is the first one to think about co-existent...Sheryl and Alto are thinking about protecting remaining human beings on Macross Frontier...not saying they are wrong...)

[This following message is in no way of insulting Sheryl, just an analogy...plz ppl don't take it seriously on the following message]
Well, saying ppl easily to forgive Ranka due to her look is as interesting as saying ppl like Sheryl because of her body. As I suggested Sheryl made a mistake in not going tho body check immediately after she got informed by Grace that she has a nasty virus in her body...since no one suggested that Sheryl made a bad, or not so good decision in not going tho body check...Now can I say that it was because of Sheryl's mature body so ppl let her off the hook in not going tho body check??
[Again this is just a response in Ranka's cutie-looking comment made by ppl in above....I just raised a counter example...not mean to go off-topic or to insult anyone or Sheryl..(geez I hope nothing bad happens...)]

Just to state that I am not saying the above ppl's comment on Ranka's cutie-look-lead to-forgiveness is wrong or right...I just simply ask a similar question based on the comment made by ppl in above

__________________

Come and join Ranka Lee Fanclub !!! Join our club and you will see
1)Ranka pics 2)Ranka/Alto pic 3)Relatively Sane discussion about Ranka 4)amv for RankaTo all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet

Hmmm... justavisitor, your comparison fails big time. Sheryl did do a check-up, if not immediately after being told, then just a while later. We do even get to see people analyzing the results (Klan and Michael, even). So...?

And Ranka broke out of Grace's control by leaving? Hello? You know the magnificent bastard was completely aware of everything Ranka and her little nii-chan did, don't you? You really think she'd have let her precious experiment go away like that if she didn't want her to?

__________________

It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love! All hail the Empress!!!

I guess you misunderstood me. I was saying that both Sheryl and Ranka keep their designs, but have Sheryl act the way Ranka did in the series and you'd be hard-pressed to find people who'd defend her actions. Frankly,I've always thought that the only reason people are even defending Ranka's actions at this point is because they can't see past her moeness.

Yeah, well, same standard applies to that as before. While I *loved* Sheryls design, if she´d behaved like Ranka ( and Ranka like Sheryl, I guess ), she´d be as hated as TV Minmay by this point.

Hmmm... justavisitor, your comparison fails big time. Sheryl did do a check-up, if not immediately after being told, then just a while later. We do even get to see people analyzing the results (Klan and Michael, even). So...?

I was thinking about that too and I guess she came to the conclusion that her condition is drastically getting worse even without a medical check. If I remember the scene where she confronted Grace in the hospital Grace also told her the truth about the medical treating wasn't realling curing her but only stopped from spreading for a while. This was a shocking news for Sheryl so as smart as she would guess at this moment that she is going to die.

As I suggested Sheryl made a mistake in not going tho body check immediately after she got informed by Grace that she has a nasty virus in her body...

Sheryl was constantly being checked upon, but Grace kept on switching samples until it proved too late for Sheryl to reverse the outcome. She was interned in the hospital, she was constantly getting her check-ups, but with Grace being the meddlesome factor, it was impossible for Sheryl to know.

Moreover, after being told of her condition, Sheryl did immediately get a checkup. Or rather, Klan done it for her. Unfortunately for Sheryl, Klan's conclusion was the same as Grace. Then she later got her final check up from Luca, which of course, could not prevent her eventual death other than informing that she is temporarily capable of matching a fraction of Ranka's power. So at the end, yes, Sheryl thought she was taken care of, she had no reason to doubt Grace until her interactions with Ranka became fishy (call that a woman's instinct), and she confronted Grace only to find out about her imminent death. She was placed in a situation that was beyond her control, so what could she possibly do about it? Nothing.

However, that did not matter, because with whatever power she could muster, she lived her fullest using that power. That is all it matters. Essentially, in the face of death, she simply laugh at it.

Sheryl was constantly being checked upon, but Grace kept on switching samples until it proved too late for Sheryl to reverse the outcome. She was interned in the hospital, she was constantly getting her check-ups, but with Grace being the meddlesome factor, it was impossible for Sheryl to know.

Moreover, after being told of her condition, Sheryl did immediately get a checkup. Or rather, Klan done it for her. Unfortunately for Sheryl, Klan's conclusion was the same as Grace. Then she later got her final check up from Luca, which of course, could not prevent her eventual death other than informing that she is temporarily capable of matching a fraction of Ranka's power. So at the end, yes, Sheryl thought she was taken care of, she had no reason to doubt Grace until her interactions with Ranka became fishy (call that a woman's instinct), and she confronted Grace only to find out about her imminent death. She was placed in a situation that was beyond her control, but that did not matter, because with whatever power she could muster, she lived her fullest using that power.

- Tak

Interesting, now that you put it that way, I guess that both Sheryl and Ranka have more in common than I originally thought.

Like I said before, both Sheryl and Ranka have been manipulated by Grace. Grace gets to manage them after all. So mentioning who is more manipulated or whatnot doesn't put one above the other. With the way the discussion is going right now, it seems that people are only beginning to realize this.

What separates the two characters and the fans into various camps of opinion is with regard how these two characters cope when the chips are down and when the crap hits the fan.

I don't think I mentioned that Sheryl specifically requested Kuran to do it for her. That was all Kuran.

- Tak

Hm. I thought it was michel who asked her to go research for what the pill was that sheryl did not take and had LAI as brand. No matter I'll have to relook and thanks for reminding me that I may missed a scene.

Quote:

With the way the discussion is going right now, it seems that people are only beginning to realize this.

Seriously if a kiddo runs wild and starts to massacre the law will always wants to find out why did he do it. this means it will be checked what has influenced him/her to do such a behavior. As you bring it up. Video games like Doom, Duke Nukem or even Movies like Evil Dead got indexed or lost on brutality due bad influences on children.

Back to Ranka:

I say this is half correct. It always depends on the situation what she did. The problem we have here is that some have a high expectation on her because of the situations and making - let's say - questionable decisions. As someone who views her from an ankle with a not higher expectation on her character (not meaning to discredit her but viewing a strong character with weaknesses) then you are able to understand her more.

btw. mechabao you are making a very interesting theory by switching the roles and the behaviors. By trying to image it in my mind I had the image of Kuran Seriously. It' s a bit hard to view but I am very interested on how it would have impact on the viewers.

1) I'm not talking about the law I'm talking about you, and that was just an example. Cause if we went by law because if we went in that direction, then this argument would be too messy. I speaking about it from the moral stand point, not the legal standpoint, please keep the two separate. And you still never answered my question. Though I admit that was bad example

And seriously there is a reason why all of those excuses fall flat on their face, and never hold up in court. And if children are playing those games then here is a question where are their parents? Shouldn't they like regulate or even read the stupid rating before they buy their child a violent game? Thank god the American government never takes these excuses seriously.

2) That's where we disagree; Ranka isn't a strong character with weaknesses she is a weak character with the potential to become a strong. Problem is people tend to ignore her glaring lack of character in favor of trying to make her into some kind of guiltless saint, using her age as an excuse for her behavior (never mind that Alto, Sheryl, Michael, and Luca are just one year older than her). Even though you never expected much out of her, problem is I did. When I saw Ranka I saw a little girl with the potential to grow into a good woman, but what happened? The shanked her character development in favor of the love triangle, since it seemed that every time her character developed it always led her away from Alto.

I Guess the difference between viewers (like me) is that to me, I don't think Grace tells everything about the disease to Sheryl..Besides Micheal and Klan aren't doctors...it was like someone only told Sheryl: you have the nasty disease in you!!! Then Sheryl, without fully understanding the nature of the disease, like would it pass to human, decides to pay Micheal and Klan a visit....

It would be funny if it goes on like this:

Micheal to Sheryl: You better have a full check up, finding out if that disease is curable
After check up
Doctor: Not only the disease is impossible to cure, it could spread to human after staying in the host for xx years...did you contact someone today??
Micheal and Klan:........

Anyway, I don't find what Sheryl does is really wrong...it's just sometimes I find double standard towards Ranka and Sheryl...Ranka just got picked on everything while they let go of this "potentially fatal" mistake by Sheryl XD

__________________

Come and join Ranka Lee Fanclub !!! Join our club and you will see
1)Ranka pics 2)Ranka/Alto pic 3)Relatively Sane discussion about Ranka 4)amv for RankaTo all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet

I Guess the difference between viewers (like me) is that to me, I don't think Grace tells everything about the disease to Sheryl..Besides Micheal and Klan aren't doctors...

You don't need doctors to find out some of the basic symptoms of a disease. Besides, as a medical student, Klan is more than qualified to research and distribute the information. Did Sheryl ask Klan to cure her? No. But does Sheryl know that she is at the end of her line especially after being informed by Klan? Yes. So why bother finding a cure? Please tell me why humiliate yourself even more then? This was a disease Sheryl has carried since she was a child, its curable state had expired long, long ago. Its stupid to even suggest that it could be cured now that she is an adult!

Quote:

Originally Posted by justavisitor

Anyway, I don't find what Sheryl does is really wrong...it's just sometimes I find double standard towards Ranka and Sheryl...Ranka just got picked on everything while they let go of this "potentially fatal" mistake by Sheryl XD

The difference is, Sheryl kept it to herself while not wanting to hurt others. That, and nobody died because of Sheryl. Plenty of people died because of Ranka. There is no double-standard.

But then many disease shares the same symptoms..like back then in the period of SARS, some ppl thought they just had a cold, or fever...the thing is, if you know you have a nasty disease, if you value your friend or families, would you risk spreading it to them by paying them a visit?? Unless you know exactly what kind of that disease is and you know fully whether that disease can spread to human or not...the most safety measure is, after Grace showing that horrible face and telling that Sheryl had the v-type virus..Sheryl should confront doctor instantly (Was she in hospital anyway when she talked to Grace?? XD If it was, she took a long route to find Klan..) Now unless Grace tells her everything about the disease, or Sheryl knows the nature of v-type virus...I would say that she made a careless mistake..and like SARS...many ppl made a careless mistake, they thought it was a fever and cold and paid their friends a deadly visit...

But i won't judge Sheryl too hard because there are some differences between real world and anime

__________________

Come and join Ranka Lee Fanclub !!! Join our club and you will see
1)Ranka pics 2)Ranka/Alto pic 3)Relatively Sane discussion about Ranka 4)amv for RankaTo all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet