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I don't think hate is the singular definition of the right wing cause, but along with fear, angst, and being poor losers, is a part of it.

I hate to be the one to break it to you ducknwork, but some of the posts here made by those on the right are extremely hateful.

I have been accused of being a Bush hater/basher, but trully I only found him a little insipid. I don't recall a level of hate for Bush being portrayed here that ever approached the level now being directed at Obama, but there was no special forum for it at the time.

Dogger....you're entirely typical of the left who think anyone disagreeing with a liberals opinion is racist or hate-mongering. The liberal simply can't understand how anyone can possibly look at life differently than liberals. Liberals find ANYBODY and EVERYBODYnot agreeing with their worldview as insipid.

That is why most lefties/liberals are not capable of an objective discussion. They don't want to be confused with the facts.

Then there is the time-honored liberal tradition of character assasination for anyone that opposes them. Hell, they even feed on their own if they deem them not lefist/liberal enough.

Hatred at Obama....how bout more like disgust for his policies?
__________________

Thanx, you made my point perfectly.

JD

One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

Originally Posted by Bruce MacPhersonI happen to agree with your statement except please name another country where blacks have reached a higher level of freedom and prosperity than the US.

Yardley

England, Switzerland, and even France

Why are there no African countries on that list? I might grant that there could be colonialistic reasons why some African countries might not be able to provide high levels of "prosperity" ... but what about the freedom aspect.

Do Africans in Africa have less freedom there than in France or Switzerland? Why would that be? If African countries threw off the mantle of colonialism because it constricted their freedom, what would make those (African) countries discard freedom so dearly won?

God bless 'em ... the Swiss have managed to stay neutral in the big wars ... but they require every male adult to own a firearm and learn how to use it Also have a world-renowned banking system.

G.Clinchy@gmail.com"Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

I tend to disagree with you about money being such a large influence on the life of a child. Yes, it does play a role in how someone turns out, but I believe that the biggest factor is parenting. Money goes hand in hand with that to an extent...I think that lower income families tend to have parents that don't teach the same values as higher income families. (Note: not an absolute statement) If parents raise their children with work ethic, respect and discipline (among other things) they will stand a much better chance of getting a good education and good jobs, regardless of color or economic status.

If you go to a public school, you can fairly easily pick out which children have a stable home life and which children do not. The majority of those without are black.

Take a look at the divorce rates of whites vs. blacks. Better yet, take a look at the number of single mothers by race, or the rates of children by multiple fathers by race. The numbers don't lie. Blacks clearly have less stable home lives while growing up, due to the said factors, among other things. Of course, a single mother with a few children is going to have a lower income than married parents in a good home.

But is the problem low income? Or is that just a symptom of morals, values, work ethic, and respect not being taught by the single mother's parents, therefore leading to pregnancy at age young age (typically) and unsuccessful relationships throughout life? What kind of example is being set for young black children?

No amount of affirmative action, reperations, free education, etc is going to fix that. It has to start at home and parents have to be willing to change the status quo. Do you make someone want to change their life by giving handout after handout? Or do you do it by making them realize they will have to be responsible for themselves and their children?

I agree that income is not the defining factor as much as the work ethic and other character and mental skills encouraged by parents. I have known many relatively poor parents who have instilled great work ethics in their children. My father's father was a drunk and a member of the KKK. He died when my father was ten leaving behind my grandmother with seven children aged two months to 14. My grandmother was 32 at the time. She worked as a waitress for $1/day plus tips and a portion of the family's food came from Ag Department surplus. Every kid grew up well.

However, money, literacy and an attitude of success from parents has a lot to do with successful parenting. I work on a volunteer basis with kids that are never more than one moderate illness away from eviction and bankruptcy. Almost all have been homeless at some point in their lives. That affects their whole outlook on life. Most children who have been homeless during the year attend three or more different schools. 45% have excessive absenteeism and 12% drop out altogether. Their literacy and communication skills decline because of the instability in their home lives. The likelihood that they will become involved in gangs, and abuse alcohol and drugs goes up. That injury will affect their whole lives without special assistance to break the pattern.

If you want to find reasons for high rates of single parent households, look back to the training and breeding we provided in slavery. How often do we keep the stud dogs around to help with the pups? Not often, and the same attitude was an integral part of slave life. Welfare rules reinforced a similar pattern. Families with fathers present were ineligible for assistance. The father had to leave and keep away from his family to qualify for welfare. Teen and yound adult unemployment rates have seldom gone below 50% in black communities and the jobs that are available provide neither rent money nor pride. The Clinton administration was the first that seemed to begin to break through this cycle with a mix of tough love through welfare reform and new economic opportunities. However, the end of that administration also saw an end to that progress.

By the way, unmarried teen pregnancy is increasingly becoming a problem of the south and of evangelicals rather than a problem of urban blacks.

Are you saying that the reason a lot of blacks are the way they are is due to selective breeding? I have never heard that one before and I would be interested in reading some information on it if you have any links concerning it.

Obviously, your grandmother was a good, hardworking woman. I am sure that she instilled that into your Dad, aunts and uncles. That is exactly my point. Regardless of her economic situation, she was still able to raise productive people rather than government leaches. Why can't that be done in this day and age? Is it just too easy to collect a government check? Do people have no pride in themselves and providing for their families?

You are absolutely correct in your second paragraph about being homeless and low income and such. To me, the low income still seems to be more of a symptom of a deep rooted problem than the problem itself. Obviously, the parent's parents, or the parent's parent's parents failed at some point while raising their children, screwing the family for generations to come.
________Lovely Wendie

Are you saying that the reason a lot of blacks are the way they are is due to selective breeding? I have never heard that one before and I would be interested in reading some information on it if you have any links concerning it.

Obviously, your grandmother was a good, hardworking woman. I am sure that she instilled that into your Dad, aunts and uncles. That is exactly my point. Regardless of her economic situation, she was still able to raise productive people rather than government leaches. Why can't that be done in this day and age? Is it just too easy to collect a government check? Do people have no pride in themselves and providing for their families?

You are absolutely correct in your second paragraph about being homeless and low income and such. To me, the low income still seems to be more of a symptom of a deep rooted problem than the problem itself. Obviously, the parent's parents, or the parent's parent's parents failed at some point while raising their children, screwing the family for generations to come.

My point on breeding of slaves was less a genetic one than a social one. The view of slaves as chattel meant that they were simply not permitted to have a traditional family structure. Parents were separated from each other and sometimes from their children whenever family relationships interfered with their "jobs" as slaves. Do that for a period of 2-300 years and the amazing thing is that families remained as strong as they did. My own experience is that black families are often stronger in the face of economic challenges than their white counterparts. With the increasing need of families to have two full time wage earners to make ends meet, family structures break down even in "intact" families and fewer and fewer families match the 2-parent "ideal". In fact, less than half of our children are now growing up in two parent households.

My grandmother was extraordinary in her ability to deal with the stresses of poverty and single parenthood. Unfortunately, most people are average, not extraordinary. For all those average people, the stresses of such a life are overwhelming and the children are the ones that pay. In my mind, we can either choose to let those shortcomings affect generations of children to follow, or we can seek ways to enrich the opportunities available to both parents and children to help beak the cycle. "Affirmative action" is one name for enriched opportunities. Programs may work well or work poorly. However, we cannot break the link between race and poverty by waiting for extraordinary parents to save their children. We have to help ordinary parents to give their children the educational and cultural exposures that will help.

Too many people are unwilling to do anything different than what they are doing now. Why take advantage of affirmative action if you could stay home and collect a government check? Why work for $10/hour if you can sell drugs and make all the money you could ever want?

People have to want to be better before they can be better.

All children should have the same opportunities to receive a good education. A child could have the best education in the world and be exposed to all that you refer to that they need to be exposed to, but if they go home to an abusive parent or a parent who doesn't care or a drunk or high parent, I just don't see how that education will make anything change. I am sure it is hard to do your homework while your dad's friends are drinking and smoking dope in the living room. It's probably pretty hard to study for a test when your mom is selling drugs or sex out of the back door, or you hear your neighbors beating on each other. We have to fix HOME and FAMILY before education or jobs can make much of an impact at all.
________JUSTIN BIEBER FAN

Dear EPL...and the walking wounded that follow your lead. Your guilt is dripping all over us. As you continue to attempt to make the rest of us to feel as guilty as you apparently do, forget it. Your bleeding heart story of your ancestors can be repeated so damned many times by practically everyone that pioneered this great nation....from which many of us descendants received a similar education about life you arrogently imply we have no clue. Puhleeze.

You mistakenly and arrogently accuse many of us as being racists, just because we are so passionate about not wanting the current administration to railroad our freedoms into the toilet. So, as is so typical, the Dems play the racist card whenever they have no other answers for Americans exercising their rights, vociferously, against what we perceive as further attempts at usurping our liberties.

When it comes to hypocrites, there are none so obvious as the party you champion. Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Clarence Thomas, Condoleeza Rice are just a few that your party can chastise, and nobody seems to see any racism in that. They are just 'consevatives', and obvious 'oreos'. Must make you so proud how your constituency can recognize the differences.

Under the present administration, this nation will be more racially divided than anytime in the past 50 years.

UB

When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

Yardley you are a case, too bad you can't tell how it really is. There hasn't been slavery in the US in almost 150 years and your still blaming it for the ills of blacks. Give it up, get off the guilt trip your trying to lay on us. How long will you and The Messiah be blaming Bush for everything. Sometimes people have to be responsible for their actions and not blame others for their own short comings. There's a reason for the disproportionate number of blacks in our prison system. THEY COMMITTED CRIMES because they chose to. There's a reason for the high rate of illegitimacy because they chose it. Nobody gave me anything, I got what I have by working my butt off. Others should do the same instead of always asking for a free luch.

It can be a "million man march" anf gets all kinds of soft coverage, even when the main speaker spews absolute racist bilge.

But hey, let close to 2 million mainly caucasion, middle class folks show up in Washington and all they can talk about is "racism" and how hand-wringing terrible the signs that say "Bury Healthcare with Kennedy" are....it's a joke...but nobody is laughing.

Two Million? Are you joking?

The DC fire department said 60-70k. Please don't tell me that they are lying. I grew up around firefighters, and as far as I'm concerned they are well trained American Heros.

"For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

My point on breeding of slaves was less a genetic one than a social one. The view of slaves as chattel meant that they were simply not permitted to have a traditional family structure. Parents were separated from each other and sometimes from their children whenever family relationships interfered with their "jobs" as slaves. Do that for a period of 2-300 years and the amazing thing is that families remained as strong as they did. My own experience is that black families are often stronger in the face of economic challenges than their white counterparts. With the increasing need of families to have two full time wage earners to make ends meet, family structures break down even in "intact" families and fewer and fewer families match the 2-parent "ideal". In fact, less than half of our children are now growing up in two parent households.

My grandmother was extraordinary in her ability to deal with the stresses of poverty and single parenthood. Unfortunately, most people are average, not extraordinary. For all those average people, the stresses of such a life are overwhelming and the children are the ones that pay. In my mind, we can either choose to let those shortcomings affect generations of children to follow, or we can seek ways to enrich the opportunities available to both parents and children to help beak the cycle. "Affirmative action" is one name for enriched opportunities. Programs may work well or work poorly. However, we cannot break the link between race and poverty by waiting for extraordinary parents to save their children. We have to help ordinary parents to give their children the educational and cultural exposures that will help.

Jeff, you are Ivy League educated, what do you know about ordinary or the plight of minorities. No one helped my family to educate their kids. They did it themselves because they were proud to be American citizens and they wanted us to be accepted by our neighbors and friends even though we were a minority. They never asked for a handout or aid, and we probably could have qualified on many different levels, but they didnt want charity, they didnt want welfare,all they wanted was a chance to raise their kids in a country that my dad fought a world war over..

All my Exes live in Texas

Originally Posted by lanse brown

A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"