I love what Elon is doing but buying into Solar City looks like a poor business decision.

I have been tracking Solar City for a few years with the view to buying heaps and making a fortune on it. After all this time I still don't see a decent investment opportunity, in fact it looks like a bust.

The share price doesn't go up because the price of solar keeps going down and margins get smaller; money invested in the company becomes eroded by new competitors looking to cash in on the new market and any money spent on capital investment is only worth 50% a year later and becomes less sellable over time as in the Dick Smith scenario.

I think Musk is foolish to buy into Solar City because it will waste his capital base and should instead save the money and put it where he profits the most. The Solar Citys of this world will be many and Musk should use them as a service rather than invest in them. He should focus on what he does best.

It's more about Tesla having a solar panel arm to go with power wall, a one package deal.

I love what Elon is doing but buying into Solar City looks like a poor business decision.

I have been tracking Solar City for a few years with the view to buying heaps and making a fortune on it. After all this time I still don't see a decent investment opportunity, in fact it looks like a bust.

The share price doesn't go up because the price of solar keeps going down and margins get smaller; money invested in the company becomes eroded by new competitors looking to cash in on the new market and any money spent on capital investment is only worth 50% a year later and becomes less sellable over time as in the Dick Smith scenario.

I think Musk is foolish to buy into Solar City because it will waste his capital base and should instead save the money and put it where he profits the most. The Solar Citys of this world will be many and Musk should use them as a service rather than invest in them. He should focus on what he does best.

It's more about Tesla having a solar panel arm to go with power wall, a one package deal.

Yes I think that's great but how about a joint venture rather than directly investing in a company that will eventually lose a lot of money? I'm not against the idea in fact I think it's brilliant but my investment sense tells me that a lot of money is going to be burnt.

I love what Elon is doing but buying into Solar City looks like a poor business decision.

I have been tracking Solar City for a few years with the view to buying heaps and making a fortune on it. After all this time I still don't see a decent investment opportunity, in fact it looks like a bust.

The share price doesn't go up because the price of solar keeps going down and margins get smaller; money invested in the company becomes eroded by new competitors looking to cash in on the new market and any money spent on capital investment is only worth 50% a year later and becomes less sellable over time as in the Dick Smith scenario.

I think Musk is foolish to buy into Solar City because it will waste his capital base and should instead save the money and put it where he profits the most. The Solar Citys of this world will be many and Musk should use them as a service rather than invest in them. He should focus on what he does best.

It's more about Tesla having a solar panel arm to go with power wall, a one package deal.

Yes I think that's great but how about a joint venture rather than directly investing in a company that will eventually lose a lot of money? I'm not against the idea in fact I think it's brilliant but my investment sense tells me that a lot of money is going to be burnt.

With all due respect hambo, Elon has a pretty good eye, plus he has owned the majority of shares in solar city for quite some time.

I love what Elon is doing but buying into Solar City looks like a poor business decision.

I have been tracking Solar City for a few years with the view to buying heaps and making a fortune on it. After all this time I still don't see a decent investment opportunity, in fact it looks like a bust.

The share price doesn't go up because the price of solar keeps going down and margins get smaller; money invested in the company becomes eroded by new competitors looking to cash in on the new market and any money spent on capital investment is only worth 50% a year later and becomes less sellable over time as in the Dick Smith scenario.

I think Musk is foolish to buy into Solar City because it will waste his capital base and should instead save the money and put it where he profits the most. The Solar Citys of this world will be many and Musk should use them as a service rather than invest in them. He should focus on what he does best.

It's more about Tesla having a solar panel arm to go with power wall, a one package deal.

Yes I think that's great but how about a joint venture rather than directly investing in a company that will eventually lose a lot of money? I'm not against the idea in fact I think it's brilliant but my investment sense tells me that a lot of money is going to be burnt.

With all due respect hambo, Elon has a pretty good eye, plus he has owned the majority of shares in solar city for quite some time.

Yes absolutely. He's far brighter than me, I'm just trying to make sense of it. On it's own Solar City looks like a poor performer terms of share price. I hope his cunning plan all comes together and the sum turns out greater than the parts.

Nick Pfitzner was the first person in Australia to have the Tesla Powerwall installed in his home in January. So was it worth it?

Tesla Powerwall: What's the verdict from the family who installed Australia's first unit?
702 ABC Sydney By Amanda Hoh

In a bid to save money on his electricity bill, Nick Pfitzner joined the growing number of Australians who have installed home battery units.

Six months on, he has cut his daily power bill by nearly 90 per cent and said his family had become "smarter" with their use of appliances.

"I have absolutely no regrets," Mr Pfitzner told 702 ABC Sydney from his home in the Hills district.

"The battery performance is still what it was on day one, and we'll be keeping an eye on that over the coming years.

"I'll consider more panels and another battery in a few years."

Mr Pfitzner was the first person in Australia to have the much-hyped Tesla Powerwall installed.

Tesla is one of a large number of companies offering grid-connected home batteries, according to James Martin from solar and battery comparison service Solar Choice.

But Mr Martin cautioned battery units, which are charged using renewable sources such as solar and wind, were still a costly option.

"The thing that is common to these battery banks is they still don't make sense from a pure financial perspective," he said.

"Pretty much none of them will pay for themselves before the warranty expires."

Mr Martin said the cost of solar battery products ranged on average between $1,500 and $2,000 per kilowatt hour.

The Pfitzners spent $16,000 installing solar panels and their home battery system which can hold 7 kilowatt hours of power.

His last electricity bill had reduced from $5 to $6 per day to just 59 cents.

What is the Tesla Powerwall?

The Powerwall, a lithium-ion battery system designed to store electricity generated from rooftop solar panels, is widely considered to be a game-changer for the electricity industry.The ability to monitor the household's usage meant the Pfitzner family had become more efficient and smarter with their appliance use.

"We run the dishwasher during the day and shift as much power use to the daytime so we're using solar power.

"But we haven't sat there frozen, turned off the lights and sat in the dark with candles.

"You still need to live."

On a sunny day, the solar panels will power the house then charge up the home battery by around 11:00am.

If there is an oversupply of solar power, any excess will be fed back into the grid.

If all the power is used in the battery or if there is no solar power due to it being a cloudy day, then the house will draw from the electricity grid as needed.

Rechargeable batteries: facts, myths and explosions

Rechargeable batteries already power our phones, laptops and toothbrushes, and with solar battery storage and electric cars set to take off, it's time to sort the battery fact from fiction.In the past six months, Mr Pfitzner said he used solar power and stored battery power for about three-quarters of the time.

"People with solar power know about the benefits but the Powerwall takes it to a new level for me," he said.

"When the sun goes down, I've still got peak power from the battery."

Mr Martin said households, unless their electricity use was very low, could not go off grid without a lot of "extra expensive battery capacity".

He said people should be aware that home batteries would degrade over time and that the ability of the Tesla Powerwall to hold energy "will be reduced over its lifetime".

While solar panels had a payback period of as low as three years and last for about 25 years, Mr Martin said most solar battery options would have a payback period of at least a decade.

Mr Pfitzner said he anticipated it would take about 10 years for the system to pay itself off, though he said he was looking at other methods of saving more money in the meantime.

He wants to take up an off-peak system that will be able to predict what the weather will be, and if the battery is running low or cloudy days are expected, the system will draw power from the grid in cheaper, off-peak times of the day.

At the moment, the battery system draws power from the grid whenever it is needed and charges a single electricity rate for usage.

Mr Pfitzner said he expected more households might take up home battery systems in New South Wales when the Solar Bonus Scheme ends in December.

Tesla Powerwall: What's the verdict from the family who installed Australia's first unit?
702 ABC Sydney By Amanda Hoh

In a bid to save money on his electricity bill, Nick Pfitzner joined the growing number of Australians who have installed home battery units.

Six months on, he has cut his daily power bill by nearly 90 per cent and said his family had become "smarter" with their use of appliances.

"I have absolutely no regrets," Mr Pfitzner told 702 ABC Sydney from his home in the Hills district.

"The battery performance is still what it was on day one, and we'll be keeping an eye on that over the coming years.

"I'll consider more panels and another battery in a few years."

Mr Pfitzner was the first person in Australia to have the much-hyped Tesla Powerwall installed.

Tesla is one of a large number of companies offering grid-connected home batteries, according to James Martin from solar and battery comparison service Solar Choice.

But Mr Martin cautioned battery units, which are charged using renewable sources such as solar and wind, were still a costly option.

"The thing that is common to these battery banks is they still don't make sense from a pure financial perspective," he said.

"Pretty much none of them will pay for themselves before the warranty expires."

Mr Martin said the cost of solar battery products ranged on average between $1,500 and $2,000 per kilowatt hour.

The Pfitzners spent $16,000 installing solar panels and their home battery system which can hold 7 kilowatt hours of power.

His last electricity bill had reduced from $5 to $6 per day to just 59 cents.

What is the Tesla Powerwall?

The Powerwall, a lithium-ion battery system designed to store electricity generated from rooftop solar panels, is widely considered to be a game-changer for the electricity industry.The ability to monitor the household's usage meant the Pfitzner family had become more efficient and smarter with their appliance use.

"We run the dishwasher during the day and shift as much power use to the daytime so we're using solar power.

"But we haven't sat there frozen, turned off the lights and sat in the dark with candles.

"You still need to live."

On a sunny day, the solar panels will power the house then charge up the home battery by around 11:00am.

If there is an oversupply of solar power, any excess will be fed back into the grid.

If all the power is used in the battery or if there is no solar power due to it being a cloudy day, then the house will draw from the electricity grid as needed.

Rechargeable batteries: facts, myths and explosions

Rechargeable batteries already power our phones, laptops and toothbrushes, and with solar battery storage and electric cars set to take off, it's time to sort the battery fact from fiction.In the past six months, Mr Pfitzner said he used solar power and stored battery power for about three-quarters of the time.

"People with solar power know about the benefits but the Powerwall takes it to a new level for me," he said.

"When the sun goes down, I've still got peak power from the battery."

Mr Martin said households, unless their electricity use was very low, could not go off grid without a lot of "extra expensive battery capacity".

He said people should be aware that home batteries would degrade over time and that the ability of the Tesla Powerwall to hold energy "will be reduced over its lifetime".

While solar panels had a payback period of as low as three years and last for about 25 years, Mr Martin said most solar battery options would have a payback period of at least a decade.

Mr Pfitzner said he anticipated it would take about 10 years for the system to pay itself off, though he said he was looking at other methods of saving more money in the meantime.

He wants to take up an off-peak system that will be able to predict what the weather will be, and if the battery is running low or cloudy days are expected, the system will draw power from the grid in cheaper, off-peak times of the day.

At the moment, the battery system draws power from the grid whenever it is needed and charges a single electricity rate for usage.

Mr Pfitzner said he expected more households might take up home battery systems in New South Wales when the Solar Bonus Scheme ends in December.

Coal power guy says batteries not that good and expensive! While battery owner cuts bill by 90%

Well we spend about $800 per quarter, so 3200 per year. So if I had one I save 2880 per year. So in 5 years it's paid for itself assuming that grid power pricing stays the same, faster if it keeps going up.

Tesla Powerwall: What's the verdict from the family who installed Australia's first unit?
702 ABC Sydney By Amanda Hoh

In a bid to save money on his electricity bill, Nick Pfitzner joined the growing number of Australians who have installed home battery units.

Six months on, he has cut his daily power bill by nearly 90 per cent and said his family had become "smarter" with their use of appliances.

"I have absolutely no regrets," Mr Pfitzner told 702 ABC Sydney from his home in the Hills district.

"The battery performance is still what it was on day one, and we'll be keeping an eye on that over the coming years.

"I'll consider more panels and another battery in a few years."

Mr Pfitzner was the first person in Australia to have the much-hyped Tesla Powerwall installed.

Tesla is one of a large number of companies offering grid-connected home batteries, according to James Martin from solar and battery comparison service Solar Choice.

But Mr Martin cautioned battery units, which are charged using renewable sources such as solar and wind, were still a costly option.

"The thing that is common to these battery banks is they still don't make sense from a pure financial perspective," he said.

"Pretty much none of them will pay for themselves before the warranty expires."

Mr Martin said the cost of solar battery products ranged on average between $1,500 and $2,000 per kilowatt hour.

The Pfitzners spent $16,000 installing solar panels and their home battery system which can hold 7 kilowatt hours of power.

His last electricity bill had reduced from $5 to $6 per day to just 59 cents.

What is the Tesla Powerwall?

The Powerwall, a lithium-ion battery system designed to store electricity generated from rooftop solar panels, is widely considered to be a game-changer for the electricity industry.The ability to monitor the household's usage meant the Pfitzner family had become more efficient and smarter with their appliance use.

"We run the dishwasher during the day and shift as much power use to the daytime so we're using solar power.

"But we haven't sat there frozen, turned off the lights and sat in the dark with candles.

"You still need to live."

On a sunny day, the solar panels will power the house then charge up the home battery by around 11:00am.

If there is an oversupply of solar power, any excess will be fed back into the grid.

If all the power is used in the battery or if there is no solar power due to it being a cloudy day, then the house will draw from the electricity grid as needed.

Rechargeable batteries: facts, myths and explosions

Rechargeable batteries already power our phones, laptops and toothbrushes, and with solar battery storage and electric cars set to take off, it's time to sort the battery fact from fiction.In the past six months, Mr Pfitzner said he used solar power and stored battery power for about three-quarters of the time.

"People with solar power know about the benefits but the Powerwall takes it to a new level for me," he said.

"When the sun goes down, I've still got peak power from the battery."

Mr Martin said households, unless their electricity use was very low, could not go off grid without a lot of "extra expensive battery capacity".

He said people should be aware that home batteries would degrade over time and that the ability of the Tesla Powerwall to hold energy "will be reduced over its lifetime".

While solar panels had a payback period of as low as three years and last for about 25 years, Mr Martin said most solar battery options would have a payback period of at least a decade.

Mr Pfitzner said he anticipated it would take about 10 years for the system to pay itself off, though he said he was looking at other methods of saving more money in the meantime.

He wants to take up an off-peak system that will be able to predict what the weather will be, and if the battery is running low or cloudy days are expected, the system will draw power from the grid in cheaper, off-peak times of the day.

At the moment, the battery system draws power from the grid whenever it is needed and charges a single electricity rate for usage.

Mr Pfitzner said he expected more households might take up home battery systems in New South Wales when the Solar Bonus Scheme ends in December.

Coal power guy says batteries not that good and expensive! While battery owner cuts bill by 90%

Well we spend about $800 per quarter, so 3200 per year. So if I had one I save 2880 per year. So in 5 years it's paid for itself assuming that grid power pricing stays the same, faster if it keeps going up.

That's because coal and petrochemicals rely on people continuously paying. This thing relies on some occasional capital. It's not a steady stream of dollars continuously, forever. That's the model they rely on. It's also why politicians freak out because it's a big deal with how economies function. It's going to change. We should be figuring out the best way to do it rather than trying to hold onto outdated things that keep certain people happy.

I don't doubt there will be a new 'tax' on maintaining those things. Mandatory check ups that will cost you your savings of having the units. All will be done in safety. Did I mention it will be the electricity companies who will only be able to do them?

By Giles Parkinson on 4 May 2016Print FriendlyGCL Poly, the world’s biggest provider of silicon and solar cells to the global solar industry, launched its new battery storage product into the Australian market on Wednesday, taking on Tesla, LG, Enphase and a host of other international and local competitors.

CEO Shu Hua said battery storage was an essential part of the energy revolution that had been caused by rooftop solar PV, and the company chose Australia for its global launch because of its high level of solar PV.

Shu told RenewEconomy in an interview that GCL Poly expected Australia to be among the top five markets in the world for energy storage.

The new lithium-ion product, dubbed E-KwBe, will come in two sizes – 2.5kWh and 5.6kWh – and like the Tesla Powerwall is made in a sleek design with numerous colour options.

gcl poly

The pricing is also interesting – offering its 2.5kWh for just $A1,499 and the 5.6kW product for $A2,999. This is the wholesale price offered by its newly acquired Australian subsidiary 1Stop Warehouse. It does not include inverters and installation, but appears to be half the price of its main competitors.

The other technical details include nominal output power of 1.5kW for the smaller unit and 3kW for the larger unit. The units weight 25kg and 45kg respectively, and are wall mounted.

The products have a warranty of 7 years but a declared “life cycle” of more than 10 years. It is rated at 2,000 cycles at “full draw” – which it says was comparable with rival products.

GCL Poly says it can undercut rivals because of its long history in battery storage (it supplies large-scale solar farms), its extensive internal R&D resources and its “buying power.”

Bill Allison, technical director of 1Stop Warehouse, said the product will be available in July. He said the retail price was hard to estimate, but the system would require only a hybrid inverter, “some programming”, and a few hours labour for installation.

GCL Poly is joining the likes of US companies Tesla and Enphase, German’s Sonnenbatterie and local firms Redflow and Ecoult to launch their first or their new generation battery storage products in Australia, which is expected to be the first mass-market for residential storage products in the world.

Shu told Bloomberg last month that it is targeting Australia and other companies because of anti-dumping regulations in the US and Europe. GCL System increased its solar sales five fold in 2015, reaching more than 2.5GW in 2015 compared with an output of 500MW in 2014.

Its purchase of One Stop Warehouse is also part of its plan to establish its own distributed PV integration unit and to push into the energy storage market. Hence the formal launch of its product in Australia, where high electricity prices and the rate of solar installations is making it the most attractive market.

Peer to peer solar tradingJemma Green explains the peer to peer solar trading trail which has kicked off in Perth.'Blockchain' software will show residents of 10 homes what would happen if they were to trade their electricity with their neighbours, how much they would make and how it would work.

A similar virtual trial is being conducted in New York, but the company's imminent 'real' trial with 80 homes in a second South West location, actually doing the transactions and moving the electricity, will be a world first, Ms Green says.

The trial will allow residents to trade their electricity with their neighbours. Ms Green said more than 22 per cent of Perth and South West homes now had solar panels and the trial was a natural extension for a marketplace clearly hungry for solar and battery technology.

"When Tesla announced its power wall battery on April 30 last year it had $800 million in pre-orders in the first week," she said.

"As prices come down we will see mainstream takeup, the research suggests.

"It's clear people want control of their electricity and to commercialise it how they see fit."

At the moment Synergy pays seven cents per unit to people who sell their excess energy back to the grid. But if people then needed to buy more energy they still had to pay 26 cents per unit.

The trials will enable people to swap, sell or gift those units for somewhere between those two amounts.

"Apart from people getting a return on their solar panel investment sooner, there will be an increase in installations," Ms Green said.

"A local government might have demand in one area but no roof space, and lower lower energy use down the road in a place that can have panels installed. They could then use the blockchain to provide for more of their own energy needs.

"At the moment we pay a flat energy tariff and also a time of day tariff based on how much it costs to produce energy at that time of the day. So people can store energy and sell it while the price is high."

Ms Green said the "blockchain" database enabled people to lose the middlemen.

A normal market transaction between two trading parties requires the reconciliation of two databases, a process that in ASX share trading, for example, could take two to three days.

Like a hallmarking system, blockchain databases identified where electricity was created and used and then used that information to settle transactions directly.