tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post6644941740325113182..comments2018-05-20T17:10:08.025-05:00Comments on The Chuck Cowdery Blog: Small Barrels Still Produce Lousy Whiskey.Chuck Cowderyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-50599026378413321282012-09-12T13:50:28.631-05:002012-09-12T13:50:28.631-05:00Same issue, much broader perspective.
http://whis...Same issue, much broader perspective.<br /><br />http://whiskeyreviewer.com/2012/09/small-barrel-aging-101/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-88344533537350796702012-09-09T15:16:53.046-05:002012-09-09T15:16:53.046-05:00Barrels are all tools. Both large and small barrel...Barrels are all tools. Both large and small barrels have their place. I&#39;m glad that Buffalo Trace announced that their small barrel experiment was a failure, it opened the dialogue around the topic.<br /><br />There is so much short cutting that goes on in the beverage alcohol space that doesn&#39;t really get discussed. It&#39;s been well documented in wine, but we all know it happens in spirits. I guess the big question isn&#39;t if the tools are bad or good, but how the products that are produced using these tools are.<br /><br />I&#39;ve had my fair share of whiskey that has been pushed through maturation through a multitude of tactics (including small barrels) and my experience has always been that no matter what you do there&#39;s no substitute for TIME. Having said that I&#39;ve had some really nice spirits that have spent time in a combination of barrels including some of the stuff from Balcones Including their Texas Single Malt: http://www.drinkspirits.com/whiskey/balcones-texas-single-malt-whisky-review/<br /><br />I don&#39;t think it&#39;s fair to compare the work being done by small distillers to the big boys. Craft distilling is still in its infacy and so the products coming out of that space reflects that, but give it time, there are some exciting things on the horizon.Drink Spiritshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18088962058098058793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-86901070847144722892012-08-31T11:09:31.977-05:002012-08-31T11:09:31.977-05:00Every micro-distilled American bourbon I&#39;ve ev...Every micro-distilled American bourbon I&#39;ve ever had has not only been awful, but has been expensive and awful. At this point I&#39;ve tried like three, which obviously isn&#39;t a huge sample size, but when those bottles all cost Woodford Reserve prices and tasted substantially worse than Ten High, it&#39;s hard to want to throw good money after bad. Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527455398854734481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-34862313655594239722012-08-29T08:14:55.630-05:002012-08-29T08:14:55.630-05:00Everyone keeps criticizing BT&#39;s experimental m...Everyone keeps criticizing BT&#39;s experimental method and their mediocre use of the scientific method. However, BT stated in their announcement that they are &quot;NOT releasing these experiments...&quot;. All they have released are their findings. <br /><br />I&#39;m not really pro or con BT or this experiment, I just have a really hard time assuming that the scientists at Sazerac/BT who I&#39;m sure worked on this project decided to forgo their scientific training and employ &quot;bad science.&quot;Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-41341573488612983402012-08-28T15:15:27.258-05:002012-08-28T15:15:27.258-05:00Then wouldn&#39;t a more appropriate headline have...Then wouldn&#39;t a more appropriate headline have been, &quot;Two Whiskeys Produced Using Two Different Methods Taste Differently&quot;? The small barrels didn&#39;t make that whiskey that tasted terrible, the distiller(s) did. I&#39;m certainly not a cheerleader for the craft distilling community, but I think that&#39;s an area where their proclivity for innovation and experimentation can give us something new and unique and maybe even better, if not exactly comparable to the bourbon that BT and others like it make. <br /><br />In any case, this is a great topic, and one that clearly hasn&#39;t been resolved by BT. Really appreciate your insight!Jeff Harnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-87330381632797333532012-08-28T12:28:29.230-05:002012-08-28T12:28:29.230-05:00I think you&#39;re assuming more than you know abo...I think you&#39;re assuming more than you know about what BT intended. Taste may be subjective, but when you&#39;re comparing to a standard, it&#39;s much less subjective. The standard, in this case, being the same whiskey aged for the same amount of time in 53 gallon barrels.Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-58881695181898459912012-08-28T11:08:57.516-05:002012-08-28T11:08:57.516-05:00That is the definition of experiment, but I think ...That is the definition of experiment, but I think Mr. Spolverino takes issue with the &#39;methodical&#39; part of it. A serious experiment would apply a more rigorous approach, and BT certainly didn&#39;t employ the scientific method to prove this hypothesis. However, taste is a subjective thing, and it&#39;s hard to prove scientifically that one bourbon tastes better than the other. Where you spend your dollars might an indicator though!<br /><br />And sorry, Scott, for not giving credit where credit was due for your report I mentioned (I am &#39;Unknown&#39; - I incorrectly thought it would link my email).Jeff Harnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-42426199750307258532012-08-26T09:34:44.671-05:002012-08-26T09:34:44.671-05:00You&#39;re assuming, Vinny, that BT did this exper...You&#39;re assuming, Vinny, that BT did this experiment with an eye to what the micros were doing, and there is no reason to assume that. The micros didn&#39;t invent small barrel aging. When this experiment was conceived, the micros were just getting going. BT had trouble finding the small barrels. Again, it is what it is. I think most of the criticism about what it <i>isn&#39;t</i> is misplaced.Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-53271269930300330602012-08-25T20:24:41.692-05:002012-08-25T20:24:41.692-05:00That is the definition of an experiment, but you m...That is the definition of an experiment, but you must also define your hypothesis at the outset and, if it is to see how small barrels age whiskey and compare to the micros, mimic the methods you are trying to test. I.e. a sampling schedule similar to the micros and bit your own. It was an experiment just a biased and poorly planned one. That is not to say the bias was intentional however. Vinny Lynchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-53871608169242932822012-08-24T16:51:30.666-05:002012-08-24T16:51:30.666-05:00Experiment: a methodical trial and error procedure...<b>Experiment:</b> a methodical trial and error procedure carried out with the goal of verifying, falsifying, or establishing the validity of a hypothesis. Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-71746884659329303902012-08-24T07:10:56.923-05:002012-08-24T07:10:56.923-05:00Call me a crazy, scotch-centric dude, but tell me ...Call me a crazy, scotch-centric dude, but tell me they at least tried blending the &quot;just so smoky and dark&quot; with their basic bourbon... I know blending it a four-letter word in the world of American whisky, but it works so very well in Scotland. Small-barrel whisky not good enough on its own, but maybe 10% of the small barrel in with ordinary or slightly-older BT? Or wheated bourbon? Tell me they at least tried it in house and rejected it.theBitterFignoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-73575459016081311152012-08-23T18:08:22.347-05:002012-08-23T18:08:22.347-05:00Sorry, hit the send button too soon. I guess my se...Sorry, hit the send button too soon. I guess my sentiments echo Chuck&#39;s at this point, based on my experiences: &quot;There does seem to be an emerging consensus that while small barrels and other techniques may produce a palatable or even excellent product, they won&#39;t create a product that tastes like we expect bourbon to taste, although many have made exactly that claim.&quot;John Hansellhttp://www.whiskyadvocate.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-3590344927045475342012-08-23T15:51:25.286-05:002012-08-23T15:51:25.286-05:00I WISH I worked for a distillery. Been drinking t...I WISH I worked for a distillery. Been drinking the stuff and thinking analytically about it for 35 years, though.<br /><br />I am familiar with several craft distillers, however, and appreciate what they bring to the whiskey table (at least for the most part), even if what they bring to the table is not necessarily what we&#39;re used to being served at said table.<br /><br />I want this segment of the industry to innovate, mature, and ultimately succeed. As whiskey aficionados, we should all want that.sam knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-30466243195706896082012-08-23T15:18:34.828-05:002012-08-23T15:18:34.828-05:00That was my gut feeling when I blogged about it ba...That was my gut feeling when I blogged about it back in June, 2011. <br /><br />http://tiny.cc/fwfijw<br /><br />I didn&#39;t have any proof. I knew there was some experimenting going on. Nice to see that there is some confirmation surfacing.John Hansellhttp://www.whiskyadvocate.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-7478444546383939102012-08-23T13:53:47.876-05:002012-08-23T13:53:47.876-05:00Unknown: Yes, there was a presentation at ADI on t...Unknown: Yes, there was a presentation at ADI on this topic. It was mine and John David Jeffery&#39;s. A link to my portion can be found here: http://www.tuthilltown.com/wp-content/uploads/Long-Term-Changes-In-Whiskey-Maturation-Presentation1.pdf<br /><br />The long and short of it, here, is that small barrels make a different kind of whiskey. It is not the whiskey that we&#39;ve known. It is a new kind of whiskey. It&#39;s innovation in the spirits industry. It isn&#39;t the same as traditional aged whiskey in terms of chemical profile and such...but it&#39;s whiskey. And its popular.<br /><br />As far as this &quot;experiment&quot;, calling it an experiment is a stretch by any imagination. With no empirical data released, no attempts at controls, and a clear bias going into the experiment (no scientist would age something for six years and expect positive results; it&#39;s representation of bias)...its pretty much just &quot;we did some stuff that we&#39;re calling an experiment and now you should treat it as proof.&quot; The fact that a large company would take a stab at the craft distilling community under the guise of its &quot;important to explore and understand the differences between the use of various barrel sizes&quot; is just cheap. Scott Spolverinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02109548168910173982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-79444273253761398782012-08-23T10:51:07.606-05:002012-08-23T10:51:07.606-05:00I&#39;ve always said that this is one experiment b...I&#39;ve always said that this is one experiment by one company and I have reported it as such. The conclusory headline is mine, not Buffalo Trace&#39;s. Perhaps the broadness of the headline (in the nature of headlines) is inconsistent with the limited nature of the experiment, but it&#39;s absurd to say an experiment is illegitimate if it doesn&#39;t incorporate every possible situation or circumstance. Dozens of micro-distillers are conducting similar experiments every day, except they call them production, using a variety of variables and everybody can draw their own conclusions about what winds up in the bottle. There does seem to be an emerging consensus that while small barrels and other techniques may produce a palatable or even excellent product, they won&#39;t create a product that tastes like we expect bourbon to taste, although many have made exactly that claim. (See Clay Risen&#39;s NYT article.) That was the state of the rhetoric when I joined this conversation.Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-28044413858213027382012-08-23T09:48:15.225-05:002012-08-23T09:48:15.225-05:00Headline: &quot;Scottish climate produces lousy wh...Headline: &quot;Scottish climate produces lousy whiskey&quot;<br /><br />Text: Bourbon distillers have released the results of an experiment in which freshly filled barrels of bourbon were shipped to Scotland for aging for up to six years. Samples were taken at regular intervals, and the results were &quot;terrible&quot; according to industry experts. &quot;The Scottish climate is simply unsuitable for whiskey aging.&quot;<br /><br /><br />(The press release is fictional, but the experiment was real.)<br /><br />Chuck, you&#39;re being overly dramatic here with the headlines of &quot;terrible whiskey&quot;, and jumping to conclusions based on a few ill-concieved experiments.<br /><br />Is it possible to create a guitar that uses steel strings instead of gut? Is it possible to create an internal combustion engine that uses Diesel fuel? For both you can&#39;t just change one component (the strings or the fuel) and expect identical performance. You have to optimize the rest of the design, and you end up with something that is, in fact, equally effective, but very different in character.<br /><br />Until you&#39;re ready to release headlines stating that Scotland is unsuitable for aging whiskey, you might want to tone down the rhetoric about small barrels...<br />Tim Dellingernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-39891093018020836652012-08-23T09:32:56.249-05:002012-08-23T09:32:56.249-05:00Sazerac and BT have plenty of professionaly traine...Sazerac and BT have plenty of professionaly trained chemists working for them. I would assume and hope the experimental procedure included more than is posted here and was &quot;legitimate research&quot;. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-53210074069820860672012-08-23T00:39:54.646-05:002012-08-23T00:39:54.646-05:00And what distillery does Sam work for?And what distillery does Sam work for?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-21678053734397363372012-08-22T22:57:07.084-05:002012-08-22T22:57:07.084-05:00All of this is quite subjective by any legitimate ...All of this is quite subjective by any legitimate research standard. <br /><br />Did Buffalo Trace distill new make specifically suited for small barrel aging, or did they just put their regular new make (formulated to be aged for at least four years) into a smaller barrel? If so, game over.<br /><br />Did they evaluate the product monthly (or even more frequently) to track the progress, then attenuate that process at its peak? Absolutely not. &quot;Tasted annually...&quot; are you kidding? Most craft distillers using smaller barrels distill the product to be more palatable after short aging regimes, then pull the product from them well before a year of aging. Six years in small barrels is ludicrous.<br /><br />Does small barrel aging replicate the accepted practice of aging in 53 gallon barrels (a default measurement in any regard, as barrel sizes were all over the map for years until standardization)? It does not.<br /><br />The rash assumption that small barrel aging &quot;produces lousy whiskey&quot; without consideration for the potential variables involved is reckless in and of itself. <br /><br />There are a number of acceptable, even good, short aged whiskeys on the market. Small barrel aging has its merits, though definitely limited, and will produce whiskey that is accepted and even embraced by the market, much as the white whiskeys that preceded them.<br /><br />As constructed, this is a flawed and failed attempt from the start, and should not be used as any serious exploration into the nuances of the craft whiskey universe. There are excellent examples already on the market.sam knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-77746295349248975492012-08-22T18:23:48.699-05:002012-08-22T18:23:48.699-05:00Chuck, thanks for the great information. Good to s...Chuck, thanks for the great information. Good to see Buffalo Trace being honest (eventually) about the results of this experiment. I am a fan of Buffalo Trace, and I was curious to get your overall thoughts on the distillery. I found a copy of your book, &#39;Bourbon, straight&#39;, online and it&#39;s on it&#39;s way to me. Excited to get into it. Cheers!Paul McIvornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-41197700210035710382012-08-22T16:04:17.236-05:002012-08-22T16:04:17.236-05:00New York Times article on artificial whiskey aging...<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/22/dining/whiskey-start-ups-are-rolling-out-a-smaller-barrel-sooner.html?_r=2&amp;smid=fb-share" rel="nofollow">New York Times</a> article on artificial whiskey aging.Toddiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02792093394752277292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-42601979375125552102012-08-22T13:06:40.079-05:002012-08-22T13:06:40.079-05:00I remember seeing some kind of presentation (I thi...I remember seeing some kind of presentation (I think it was delivered at ADI&#39;s annual event, so there might be a link somewhere on their site) about the actual chemical reactions that take place in smaller barrels compared to larger ones, and how those reactions vary over time. The long and short of it, you can get flavor out of smaller barrels, but the aging process in larger barrels was the only way to produce the kinds of flavor compounds we associate with good bourbon whiskey. So could a distillery utilize the smaller barrels for those first 12-18 months and then transfer them to a larger barrel for continued aging? That seems like a strange and possibly useless experiment (why not just age them in the larger barrels to begin with), but I wonder what the effect would be.<br /><br />In any case, I don&#39;t think this experiment means unequivocally that we won&#39;t see small barrels being used. You&#39;re right - how they taste is for the consumer to decide.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10945369247024671781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-90416128469754317802012-08-22T12:24:26.911-05:002012-08-22T12:24:26.911-05:00I wonder what affect a heated warehouse vs an unhe...I wonder what affect a heated warehouse vs an unheated one would have on small barrels. I&#39;m inclined to think negative. (20 years ago, Murray and the Regans wrote that Elmer T. Lee heated the warehouses. I have no idea if they still do that today.)Michael Shoshaninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-74688299667750141272012-08-22T12:13:30.102-05:002012-08-22T12:13:30.102-05:00They tasted them after 12 months and again after 2...They tasted them after 12 months and again after 24, etc. I only tasted the 6-year product, but I can&#39;t imagine how that whiskey could have tasted <i>better</i> at 12 or 18 months, though this was just one experiment and, yes, distillers make their products as they see fit. The products they release taste the way they want them to taste. Whether or not they taste good is up to the consumer to decideChuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.com