I 've always loved Batman Begins and loathed The Dark Knight. So I didn't bother with Rises. Nothing will change for me except the numbers for and against. People who loved it will still love it. Others will see its flaws more and it will bother them or not. Folks who just dislike it for no longer being the next best thing shouldn't even count bit unfortunately they seem legion.

Ditto. Even if it had just sparked his interest in Bruce as being something more than he seems. But not the entire basis for knowing he's Batman.

AGREED. I would have loved to see Blake work with Bruce to uncover Bane and as the two work together Bruce see Blake begin to be more in tuned with Bruce's and Batman's philosophy. Blake needed to EARN the Bat and I personally don't feel like he did in the film.

No. A child has multiple disadvantages. First off, they're just smaller. A full grown person can much more easily make a longer jump because of the simple fact that their legs are longer. Secondly, an adult has much more muscle, which leads to more power to really jettison yourself across a distance. Look at athletes who are great jumpers. They're usually heavy with muscle, because they need that muscle to generate good jumping power.

So there's no way a little kid who's grown up in a pit would be able to make a jump that full grown men couldn't.

I 've always loved Batman Begins and loathed The Dark Knight. So I didn't bother with Rises. Nothing will change for me except the numbers for and against. People who loved it will still love it. Others will see its flaws more and it will bother them or not. Folks who just dislike it for no longer being the next best thing shouldn't even count bit unfortunately they seem legion.

Certainly can imagine why - BB is straightforward and accessible, TDK frantic, kind of choppy and slightly surreal (love it for that reason among others, but yea). Did the sequel have to be this way? Not really.

No, see...the point is, and I've said it over and over again, is that the people who are have problems with the scene are ASSUMING that Blake has no common sense. Assuming that he might not have put two and two together about how Bruce was gone for 7 years and showed up back in Gotham right around the first appearance of the Batman. Assuming that he wouldn't realize that Batman needed a lot of money to be able to do what he does. Assuming that a guy who proved himself to be a good detective in this film wouldn't have used some rationale to back up his hunch...like detectives do. To me these are counterintuitive assumptions to make. It seems unavoidable that is mind would reach all of those conclusions just based on the surface evidence.

So I didn't need to hear it. That's not what the scene was about. Could they have added a line or two like that? Sure. But it wouldn't have made the scene better or worse for me, just added to its length.

And also, yes. Alfred burned the letter. There was never any question about it.

Well, after writing this post, you then went to the other thread and said something to the effect of me winning the universe and all your opinions on this movie no longer being valid... so I'll just skip this one

Oh, and, I didn't say add to its length, I said replace - it was already long enough, not least due to having to made this absurdity feel as believable as possible

I'll say this much at least the ending is somewhat on point to the whole Batman genre. Showing that there will be a Batman to continue to protect the city. To make the kids name Robin was just idiotic. What they should have done was never mentioned his name at all throughout the movie then at the end have that lady say "okay Mr Grayson" or be like "This was left for you Richard" then he would say "I prefer Dick" something like that would have been cool.

I prefer Dick. Really ? Final words of Blake in the movie would be , i prefer dick ? I can already imagine the reactions.

No. A child has multiple disadvantages. First off, they're just smaller. A full grown person can much more easily make a longer jump because of the simple fact that their legs are longer. Secondly, an adult has much more muscle, which leads to more power to really jettison yourself across a distance. Look at athletes who are great jumpers. They're usually heavy with muscle, because they need that muscle to generate good jumping power.

So there's no way a little kid who's grown up in a pit would be able to make a jump that full grown men couldn't.

Although what you wrote obviously makes sense , i dont think anatomy and physiology were the concerns regarding the little girl's ability to escape the pit. It's the notion of her doing that that's important. Not the process.

Although what you wrote obviously makes sense , i dont think anatomy and physiology were the concerns regarding the little girl's ability to escape the pit. It's the notion of her doing that that's important. Not the process.

Yeah, like I said, I understood the visual metaphor they were creating. But the fact of the matter is, when they go out of there way to make this Superhero world feel a bit more grounded (and I say a bit, because it still had obviously unrealistic aspects) audiences come to expect that.

And showing a little girl making who has grown up in a pit her whole life make a jump that full grown men couldn't was just silly. But it is what it is.

Yeah, like I said, I understood the visual metaphor they were creating. But the fact of the matter is, when they go out of there way to make this Superhero world feel a bit more grounded (and I say a bit, because it still had obviously unrealistic aspects) audiences come to expect that.

And showing a little girl making who has grown up in a pit her whole life make a jump that full grown men couldn't was just silly. But it is what it is.

From a cult of ninjas that destroy city's , to a billionaire kid who see his parents getting killed and resorts to vigilantism to fight his anger dressing himself as a bat every night , the microwave water vaporizer , the camouflage tumbler , the terrorist who looks like a clown and presents itself with the most insane detailed plans , a sonar type space cartography , and a man who gets is face complete scarred but ends up being alive and well....i don't think its the girl jumping that really breaks that grounded world.

I always saw the trilogy has a fantastical universe that resorts to a big sense of practicability.

Yeah, like I said, I understood the visual metaphor they were creating. But the fact of the matter is, when they go out of there way to make this Superhero world feel a bit more grounded (and I say a bit, because it still had obviously unrealistic aspects) audiences come to expect that.

And showing a little girl making who has grown up in a pit her whole life make a jump that full grown men couldn't was just silly. But it is what it is.

From a cult of ninjas that destroy city's , to a billionaire kid who see his parents getting killed and resorts to vigilantism to fight his anger dressing himself as a bat every night , the microwave water vaporizer , the camouflage tumbler , the terrorist who looks like a clown and presents itself with the most insane detailed plans , a sonar type space cartography , and a man who gets is face complete scarred but ends up being alive and well....i don't think its the girl jumping that really breaks that grounded world.

I always saw the trilogy has a fantastical universe that resorts to a big sense of practicability.

Oh I agree, it's not realistic, but it goes out of its way to present grounded moments, such as Bruce struggling to fight off dogs.

Since this was such a big moment in the story, I just thought it was a little eye roll worthy that you just needed fear to really make the jump.

And justpassinby, adrenaline can only do so much. Every prisoner who made that climb would have had their adrenaline going. Again, you scare the crap out of a ten year old, it doesn't magically make them world class long jumpers.

I might need to see it a second time, but I remember I was thinking that as watching the movie and then Hit-Girl entered doing this absolutely unbelievable (although cool) stuff and all sense of realism was thrown out of the window.

And minus Dr. Manhattan, I would count Watchmen as more realistic than BB/TDK/TDKR as well.

In a way, the X-Men movies may also be more grounded now that I think about it - all the outrageous elements are "sealed in the magic bean can", so to speak, and once you get past the everyone's-got-a-cool-nickname gimmick (yea, rejecting the square society that cast them out... how about only some of them did that? not saying it's a flaw, just saying), what do you see?
No grand speeches at every corner, no "characters carrying their respective theme on their forehead" as you aptly put, no psychological externalizations or "symbols", no Scrubs montages at the end - just plain old adventurous struggles

Imo, while Nolan's were definitely quite grounded in their physicality and justifying the set pieces, its general storytelling style is totally hovering meters above the ground right from the very start. Not the many miles of Burton, but still...
And ironically, this is mainly due to its relentless efforts to justify its premise in a real world context.