CaptainIntolerance, (and this better go through) Are you trying to put me on blast or something? Trying to figure out what type of "******" I am? LOL. Many people already explained to you very well in this thread why he wasn't a WN. From the fact that WNs did not exist then, to the point that he was just looking out for his peeps only which was natural for cultures to do back then not being able to identify with others.

All the way from the main Idea, dude had Black kids sittin there talking about " the negros are to be free" when he the main one screwing the **** out of em and owning them. He is a contradicting hypocrite. Wait a minute, let me rephrase that... a SMARTcontradicting hypocrite as many white politicians were back in the day.

By the way, are you serious. People gotta sit here and WAIT for their posts to be approved? So, so, can some kind of permission be authorized because alot of posts here in Opposing views are about Black men and I'd seriously like to debate em for at least a while out in the open. But if its gon take dat long... Dang man.

Are you actually a black person, or are you just trying to pretend to be black?

CaptainIntolerance, (and this better go through) Are you trying to put me on blast or something? Trying to figure out what type of "******" I am? LOL. Many people already explained to you very well in this thread why he wasn't a WN. From the fact that WNs did not exist then, to the point that he was just looking out for his peeps only which was natural for cultures to do back then not being able to identify with others.

All the way from the main Idea, dude had Black kids sittin there talking about " the negros are to be free" when he the main one screwing the **** out of em and owning them. He is a contradicting hypocrite. Wait a minute, let me rephrase that... a SMARTcontradicting hypocrite as many white politicians were back in the day.

By the way, are you serious. People gotta sit here and WAIT for their posts to be approved? So, so, can some kind of permission be authorized because alot of posts here in Opposing views are about Black men and I'd seriously like to debate em for at least a while out in the open. But if its gon take dat long... Dang man.

This is by a professional historian. The entire article is informative and his conclusion is:

“Obviously a large number of people, for various reasons, passionately want to believe that Thomas Jefferson fathered Sally Hemings' children. These include some of the descendants of two of Sally Hemings' children who passionately want their families' oral traditions—and for many of them and their supporters, their places in American history—somehow validated by widespread acceptance of the Jefferson paternity thesis as historical fact. But it is not the role of historians to make people feel good about themselves or their family stories; "feel-good" history is not good history. It is, rather, the role of historians to explain the past as best they can, by following objective methodology and the evidence. However upsetting this conclusion may be to many people, again for a wide variety of reasons, it is simply the case that no credible evidence has proven that Thomas Jefferson fathered any of Sally Hemings' children.”

I think you people that “want to believe” need to examine your prejudices.

Good post Diogenes but to make an impact with that sort would require their being able to READ and I suspect that many of the folks that "want to believe" are sorely lacking in that arena.

We already know Jefferson was not a White nationalist. Those things didn't even exist back then. They are simply copying and paste the mans name onto there little aganda to value the conservative White idea that the hypocrite Jefferson had."

You didn't read the quote, did you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disiac

It was common for White people to only look out for their own people back then. Many cultures did. Many philosophys he proposed were greatly flawed and it is with those "beleifs" he had that helped cause more mayhem.

You only believe that White Nationalist policy is flawed because WN policy keeps Negresses from receiving a welfare check for every little Leroy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disiac

And as separate as us negros should have been as he thought, I'm sure his Black babies would have been so proud.

You can not prove he mated with one of your kind. We only know the A Jefferson did. Not Thomas in particular.

If TJ were alive today make no mistake about it he would be a WN just like us, he would probably be posting on SF

That makes him a White Nationalist even if the term did not exist back then. Get over it, [b]the fore founders of this country did not want Blacks or other non Whites to be Americans, not at all

Your argument loses a lot of traction when you say 'other non-Whites'. This is the very reason I wouldn't say Jefferson was a WN. If you actually research Jefferson you will see that he was extremely tolerant and accepting of the Indians. Then there's the fact that different admixtures of mixed Whites was never discussed as being much of an issue.

"I believe the Indian then to be in body and mind equal to the whiteman,"

“the ultimate point of rest and happiness for them is to let our settlements and theirs meet and blend together, to intermix, and become one people.”

Do today's White Nationalist say things like this? Was Thomas Jefferson a White Nationalist? Would he be allowed to post freely on Stormfront? He would be labeled a racist and possibly White Nationalist by today's media just because he voiced strong opinions on racial issues and even separation from blacks. Though, I haven't heard too many WN say things like Jefferson did. The ones I've seen make somewhat similar statements were thrown out the front door of SF head first.

If Jefferson was a WN, then I might possibly be a WN.

The only thing this thread should show anyone is who fell asleep during history class.

Jefferson freed Sally Hemings' children and Jefferson was not a member of the recolonization society which raised money to send (ONLY) free blacks to Africa VOLUNTARILY.

Jefferson was roughly 73 years old when the ACS was established. Not an age where it's a normal thing to just jump into an organization and movement. I don't think he was ever an actual member, but he was a supporter. Voluntarily only implies that they weren't forcing those blacks to move -- yet; it doesn't change the fact that he/they viewed the two races as incompatible and actively moved to separate.

I regard Henry Clay as every bit the leader that Jefferson was. Clay was a member of the ACS. Clay thought slavery to be a blight on the country. Clay was a slaveholder. Clay freed most of his slaves. A man's seemingly contradicting actions are nothing more than a very intelligent man being born into a world where unjusts had been done, then believing it was his duty to serve his countrymen's best interest by ending slavery AND repatriating those freed slaves to Africa and other areas outside the US. I'm fairly certain that Jefferson would have been a member of the ACS had he not been 70+ years old when it was founded.

Your argument loses a lot of traction when you say 'other non-Whites'. This is the very reason I wouldn't say Jefferson was a WN. If you actually research Jefferson you will see that he was extremely tolerant and accepting of the Indians. Then there's the fact that different admixtures of mixed Whites was never discussed as being much of an issue.

"I believe the Indian then to be in body and mind equal to the whiteman,"

“the ultimate point of rest and happiness for them is to let our settlements and theirs meet and blend together, to intermix, and become one people.”

Do today's White Nationalist say things like this? Was Thomas Jefferson a White Nationalist? Would he be allowed to post freely on Stormfront? He would be labeled a racist and possibly White Nationalist by today's media just because he voiced strong opinions on racial issues and even separation from blacks. Though, I haven't heard too many WN say things like Jefferson did. The ones I've seen make somewhat similar statements were thrown out the front door of SF head first.

If Jefferson was a WN, then I might possibly be a WN.

The only thing this thread should show anyone is who fell asleep during history class.

Indians?? Well of course they didn't want to send all of the "indians" to Asia or wherever it is they originated from. Of course he was accepting of the Indians remaining on the American continent, I doubt you can find one single WN who honestly thinks all of the indians should be kicked out of America or massacred...

Besides, the indians were not intended to be American citizens. Because they had their own reservations with their own laws apart from the US. They were their own government. As far as the "blending together" I'm not so sure about that, you didn't give us a source for that quote there.... It could be a fraud.

Plus......maybe he wanted Americans to "take one for the team" so to speak and just "blend together" or in other words breed what was left of the indians out of existance. Which from what I have read is what people like Nietzsche and Napoleon wanted to do with the Jews in Europe. Most WNs wouldn't like the idea of that....no.... that's for sure.

PS- WN as you should know is not about superiority so if he considered some of the indians to be somewhat "on the level" with Whites that doesen't really mean anything. I consider Asians to be every bit the "equal" of Whites as well, but don't think they belong in America, because they don't.PPS- By "intermix" and "blend together" he may just be talking about culturally. Not biologically.... It doesen't say interbreed... I also think he was intelligent enough to realize that when our settlements meet...they are not going to mix and blend together...There is going to be a fight. He could have just been trying to make himself sound like a nice guy knowing full well what he was saying could never happen anyways.

I doubt you can find one single WN who honestly thinks all of the indians should be kicked out of America or massacred

I really wouldn't say something like that if I were you. I've been coming to this site a very long time. I remember a few distinctively just off the top of my head.

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Besides, the indians were not intended to be American citizens.

Indians were not intended to be American citizens. Jefferson was not a multiculturalist. Indians who adopted European customs and traditions were, ipso facto, European. Hence, they would be considered American citizens.

Quote:

Because they had their own reservations with their own laws apart from the US. They were their own government. As far as the "blending together" I'm not so sure about that, you didn't give us a source for that quote there.... It could be a fraud.

If I were to give you a source then some idiot would come along and question the source. Why don't you do a search for those quotes and find a source you feel is reputable enough for you. There are books you can find if you like. You can try and interpret "blending together" and "intermix" in whatever way you like. It means exactly what you're hoping it doesn't. That doesn't mean there wouldn't be a distinction between Europeans and Indians; Jefferson was not saying everyone should go get an Indian mate and breed until everyone looked alike. It simply meant they[Indians] were to be under the same flag, customs, and laws of European-Americans. Yes, Patriot, there is every indication that Jefferson meant they were to be equals under the same government.

Quote:

Plus......maybe he wanted Americans to "take one for the team" so to speak and just "blend together" or in other words breed what was left of the indians out of existance. Which from what I have read is what people like Nietzsche and Napoleon wanted to do with the Jews in Europe. Most WNs wouldn't like the idea of that....no.... that's for sure.

Most WN wouldn't have liked Jefferson's ideas then.

Quote:

PS- WN as you should know is not about superiority so if he considered some of the indians to be somewhat "on the level" with Whites that doesen't really mean anything. I consider Asians to be every bit the "equal" of Whites as well, but don't think they belong in America, because they don't.

PPS- By "intermix" and "blend together" he may just be talking about culturally. Not biologically.... It doesen't say interbreed... I also think he was intelligent enough to realize that when our settlements meet...they are not going to mix and blend together...There is going to be a fight. He could have just been trying to make himself sound like a nice guy knowing full well what he was saying could never happen anyways.

He was intelligent wasn't he. He was so intelligent that he would know exactly what the connotations would be of using such words as intermix, blend, and become one. Again, Jefferson was not a multiculturalist. Indians were to be absorded into American society once they adopted European customs and laws. Most of his dealings were with the Indians of Eastern America. I'm not so sure he would have felt the same way with the Indians of the Western U.S. though. Regardless, if all this is such a farce to you then please find a quote where Jefferson states something to the contrary.