Okay guys, this thread is slowly fading away and we need to keep it going. It has become a virtual HISS Tank tradition that we mustn't let die. What new avenues of filecard-inspired discussions can we explore? Surely there must be some new ideas out there. Some questions about Joe bios and histories and military experience we've yet to discuss. Do not lose hope. We must prevail. Keep the thread alive. Are we mice or are we Joes?

Using the PoC Recondo as Digger is a great idea. I'm going to steal that.

If I have a 25th of a character, the PoC version becomes a new character. Great way to fill out the ranks.

Although I think I may make the PoC Beachhead into Beachhead and rename the 2 25th versions as Wreckage and Sabretooth. The PoC version is so kick-ass and Beachhead deserves the best.

I might have to do the same. As one of my favorite characters he deserves the best. I use the Snarler version as Wreckage because of the Black. I use a Tiger Force Version as Rampage. I wasn't happy with it as a Sabertooth version since it wasn't different enough, so I took a brown Sharpie and colored the exposed parts. Looks good I think. I have anoter figure as Sabertooth, but he's not perfect.

Zulu, this brings up a point I've been wondering about. How the the different SAS units compare to one another? What other units around the world or on par with the British SAS?

So, for example, you mention the Irish Rangers. Are they really on par with the British SAS?

How does the NZ and Australian SAS compare? Are they as good as the British SAS? I mean, we often compare Skymate and Big Ben because they're SAS, but their from the Australian and British SAS, respectively. Is it a fair comparison?

How do we figre that out. I see the Austrailian and New Zealand SAS like Green Berets. They were there in Vietnam and that type of environment served as a crucible for what I imagine makes for similar units. British SAS seem more anti-terrorist like our Delta Force. However that is solely my opinion not based on facts of any kind. Time for some research.

Zulu, this brings up a point I've been wondering about. How the the different SAS units compare to one another...

... How does the NZ and Australian SAS compare? Are they as good as the British SAS? I mean, we often compare Skymate and Big Ben because they're SAS, but their from the Australian and British SAS, respectively. Is it a fair comparison?

Nice to see you back, man.

As far as the different SAS units the world over... I don't really know (objectively) how they compare performance or record-wise, although the UK's SAS is considered to be the best mostly due to its extensive operational history starting in World War II, fighting Rommel in the desert.

Most non-UK SAS units use the Special Air Service designation to reflect their belonging to a Commonwealth nation and their "ceremonial" lineage to the British SAS (Australia and New Zealand, for example) Obviously, the British unit is the template for the "typical" SAS unit we're currently aware of: a company-sized unit (called a squadron, in keeping with Commonwealth regimentation) composed of four troops (what we in the Canada and US would call platoons in our infantry) that specialise in one of four areas: mountain warfare, advanced airborne techniques (including HALO), combat swimming/special boat operations, and motorised operations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliverbox

What other units around the world or on par with the British SAS?

In terms of "popular reputation," France's GIGN, Germany's GSG9 (both of which are actually federal police units), and Israel's Duvdevan are probably on the same level as the SAS with regards to hostage rescue and anti-terrorism operations in built-up areas. Delta Force and DEVGRU are right up there as well and I think their capabilities map very well with the SAS's.

The thing about making straight-up comparisons between special operations-capable anti-terrorism units from different countries is that the basic defining features of terrorism differ from place to place. In many European and Asian nations, terrorism is primarily a domestic problem. It takes place within a concerned country's borders, and it is performed by members of that country's local population. Therefore, in these places, it makes much more sense for anti-terrorism specialist units to be drawn from the federal police/gendarmerie or an equivalent agency empowered by the respective Interior ministry or department.

In places like the UK, Canada, Australia, the US, and New Zealand, terrorism and terrorists are generally viewed by many policy-makers, whether rightly or wrongly, as a "foreign" problem. Given that perspective, the job of anti-terrorism is primarily a Department of Defense/Defence Ministry concern. In recent years though, the FBI and the Coast Guard have been developing units that are more akin to the best Asian/European special operations-capable police units (who approach the task of anti-terrorism with military precision and rigour), and I can only see that trend continuing.

This creates an interesting dichotomy in terms of international special operations-capable units' capabilities. On the one hand, you've got these special operations-capable police units (like the GSG9) who excel (and are unparalleled, even) in hostage rescue and urban anti-terrorism operations and who also have extensive training in civilian law enforcement and have at least some capability in anti-terrorism technical/forensics investigation. It's no surprise that the United Nations recruits from special police units like the GSG9 or the Czech Republic's URNA for Special Team Six (the UN's little-known special operations-capable law enforcement/war criminal hunter unit). On the other, you've got units like America's Delta Force and DEVGRU, the UK's SAS and SBS, Canada's JTF-2, Australia's SAS, etc. which are, in essence, airborne-capable light infantry (or naval infantry) who've specialized in foreign counterinsurgency, guerrilla warfare, and expeditionary anti-terrorism. Two vastly different operative sets, but more often than not, lumped together in popular discussion.

Comparing, say, GSG9 with SAS outside of a specific context then becomes an exercise in open-ended speculation with little meaningful value, as they've been designed and conceptualised to perform their jobs up to different parameters. That doesn't stop me from making off-the-cuff comparisons, though, as the speculation can often be a fun, if ultimately pointless, creative exercise.

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Last edited by zuludelta; 12-31-2009 at 09:11 PM..
Reason: edited for punctuation

Sure you could pretend one is Sabertooth. Maybe swap out a Firefly head. And with a brown sharpie one could be Rampage, but they look too much like Beachhead for me. The POC one looks different enough for Sabertooth but he's so nice It should be Beachhead?