Non-Existent Youth Bill Pushed Back For Revision

Last year, a legislative amendment was proposed in Tokyo, by which erotic depictions of any virtual youth appearing to be under the age of 18 would have to be “censored.” (Or to put it simply: No More Lolis) In addition, the amendment — if it were passed — would also ban themes of rape and incest in Japanese media.

News of this amendment then made the rounds through Japan’s creative communities, spanning both manga and eroge publishers, several of which were opposed to the thought of being stripped of their creative freedom. A number of eroge publishers, in particular, expressed concerns regarding how they would sell their product, now that one of the fetishes that appealed to a significant portion of their market was being disallowed. In the manga sector, leading publishers such as Kodansha and Shueisha, too, voiced their opposition to an amendment that they felt curbed their freedom of expression.

This proposal, dubbed the “Non-existent Youth Bill,” now finally faces defeat at the hands of the Democratic Party of Japan, who are pushing it back for revision and to address some of the criticisms leveled against it — one of which was the vague wording of the bill — after which it will be reintroduced in September of this year, or later.

PM Hatoyama did one thing right before stepping down :)? I guess Jpn’s feeling pretty hammered right now, what w/ being pressured to ban loli anime porn and the dolphin documentary… I guess both matters are kind of sick, but who are we to judge another culture.. complex issues.. I mean, Americans don’t want to part w/ their guns either right? People don’t even want to be told by the federal gov’t what to do, let alone by another country.

As for this subject, to be fair, a lot of non-existent youth really are below 18 instead of “appearing below 18”.. How old are the girls in Clean Keeper :)?

Code

rar, loli’s they are as resilient as they are flat! Seriously though, poor dolphins they weren’t hurting nobody that is a far more important issue to address, I wasn’t sure if, The Cove had been shown/actually had made any impact in Japan or not. I guess even other countries are entitled to there own opinions though about what’s going on around the world. rar, it really does seem like a very complicated time for Japan right now, thinking on it.

Aoshi00

Yeah, how can you keep down 2-D lol :)I haven’t seen the Cove yet, heard it’s pretty cruel as you could guess w/ the fishermen herding them into a corner and harpooning them to death, but they said that’s their tradition. Thing is they’re not really for food consumption (other than getting their fins like sharks or elephant tusks), don’t know how endangered they are either. I’m not sure about the details, but the groups/fishermen are threatening local theaters to take down the film, or when it gets shown, it’s slightly censored or something, and w/ some extra disclaimers. Regular Jpn people might not even be aware of the dolphin killing? It’s bad enough every country has their problem, not just Jpn, but the worse thing is another country or the international community getting on your case (i.e US meddling w/ others’ affairs).. and very often it’s politics too (the Toyota recall, the recent Okinawa base issue bringing down Hatoyama, etc), so much conspiracy…

RupanIII

Heh, that’s Japan for you. Documentaries about dolphins and the Nanjing massacre are okay to censor/ban, but not child or even baby fetish porn. As much messed up stuff I’ve had the misfortune of seeing online, the stuff I saw in some of those shops in Akiba on study abroad topped it. That stuff will never go away in Nihon though; it acts as a collective pressure valve for oppressive societal structures.

Aoshi00

It is kind of ironic, crying freedom of speech on this and then censoring the dolphin slaughtering documentary because it’s convenient, and the right wing eduction ministry and their historical revisionism like you said (what next, Pearl Harbor never happened?).. well can’t blame them.. Texas passed a law to rewrite text books too recently, for example calling slavery “Atlantic Triangular Trade” :(.. so everyone’s a hypocrite, but that’s politics and propanganda.. Truth is Jpn is very much a patriarchal society (male chauvinist pigs) compared to the West, so it’s hard to hold them to the same standard.. I agree some of the pedo stuffs are sick, but banning something (anything) would set a precedence, so.. Jpn has their plate full too just like the US or any other country, so this anime stuff is kinda the last thing they want to be bothered w/ really… need to stop politics talk :(..

Texas was a result of fringe religious fundamentalist douchebags gaining control of key school-related positions in order to do crazy crap.

Not the same thing.

Aoshi00

How so? The Jpn Diet has been controlled by the conservative LDP for the last 50 yrs. Once you revise your textbooks and do so long enough, things will be forgotten by the next generation. Both policy want to glorify their nation’s past and disregard the unpleasant part of their history, hoping that future generation would not know better.

Well just as many pedophiles in the USA and Europe( and plenty of Western go to Asia for little girls and boys and Africa if we remember the Aids incidence of people trading food for sex with the village kids ) , don’t think banning any of thatmanga material had any effect on there numbers .(It something politicans like to do to make it look like there doing something in office to distract the public . Same way it easier to ban guns in video games then try to close down profitable Gun businesses .)

Given that alot of individuals are in domestic violence situationist or sexually assaulted when they where younger and end up screwed up in the head them-self becoming pedophiles. Don’t see how superficial changes to a comic book gonna change this lol.

And The West is just as patriarchal as Japan most of the Parliaments and states are completely male dominated Old White man landowners of popwer. The Religious moral value came from Male dominated systems that demonized woman as the source of all evil . Most of the ideology that run the Western Economic systems are forged with Patriarchal Military interest in heart (Hell the idea of rationalism Rationality was a property of the White Male soul which nonEuropean and woman lacked ) .

. Only difference i’d argue is the Sexual harassment laws are more effective in modern western country than modern japan .

Aoshi00

I didn’t say guns should be banned or 2D loli material should be censored (but yea, personally I don’t think I should have a gun, I’m not a police officer, and I don’t want some regular Joe next to me to have one either and goes off shooting people if he’s mad), of course there are many issues at play, Tradition, NRA, etc. Yes, you mentioned it yourself “the only difference” being women have much more of a voice in the Western society, and that’s a heck of a big difference. Ask the women in the middle east to voice their opinion, but no, religious laws dictate that they can’t even show their faces in public.

RupanIII

This is supposed to go at the bottom after Rand Travis and Aoshi00, but Disqus is again being stupid.

I think you’re both right in different ways, heh. Naturally, the effect of revising textbooks is the same in Japan or Texas. If people aren’t honest about their mistakes in the past how can they learn from them? What differs is the scale. Conservative hawks have held hegemony in Japanese government for 50+ years, as you mentioned. The thing in Texas, although it does reflect that there are certainly a decent amount of right-wing whitewashing fringe groups here in the States, does not reflect a nation-wide dominance in government of such ideology (let alone one standing for over half a century).

RAVENKam

‘…after which it will be reintroduced in September of this year, or later’. Or never, I hope.

rinshu

I say we all get some lotion and head to danbooru to celebrate!

Hraesvelgr

Hate lolis, but trying to put down non-existent characters is something I’m against.

The biggest problem is the fact that the US, the UK and Australia all have laws which make the child in question actually existing not a requirement for the crime. (If you’re really bored, it’s been in US federal law for about 6 months, in UK law since April, and of course in Australian law since a long time ago.)For legal practical reasons, having somewhere ‘across the border’ is an issue, even though in all the countries in question, they have a law which makes some laws ‘borderless’.I personally don’t like the stances that the US, the UK and Australia have taken, because they’re not what other countries (like Russia, or Japan) generally take anti-child abuse law for – Child Pornography traditionally is that because it’s usually evidence of a crime.When you take out the crime requirement (ie. the child existing), well… what are we doing exactly? I’m not entirely sure, since supposedly if we ban the behaviour, we’ll improve it…Then again, the fastest way to make someone think of something is to tell them ‘Sorry, you’re not allowed to think that’.

cowcow

Japan is always late to the party. Pedophilia was banned in 1999. What the Hell took them so long?

Aoshi00

Well, Jpn banned their swords, so why do Americans still cling to their guns, is this the early 1900’s?

cowcow

Swords are useless in the modern era. Guns are still viable. Especially for overweight rednecks with nothing better to do.

Aoshi00

Yea, I’m sure people would feel real safe w/ others carrying swords around them. So since civilians in most developed countries aren’t allowed to have guns, what isn’t it banned in the US, late to the party? Every country has their unique culture and society. Who are you to dictate how another country run their business. Feminists in the West might find such anime/game materials offensive, not so in Jpn.

cowcow

“Citizen’s right to bear arms” is right in the U.S. Constitution.
“Citizen’s right to sexually exploit and sodomize underage kids” is not in any Japanese law or constitution.

Aoshi00

So a game, an entertainment medium, depicting likeness to such act is the same as the act itself? Yes, 2nd amendment, back when people thought they needed to form militias to fight against Great Britain, not so much now. If Japan accuses of the US of gun violence and demands the US to get rid of the right to bear arms (since civilians are not law enforcement), think we should listen to Japan and comply? Just like the Jpn gov’t should change their law because of some feminist outcry in the West?

I mean, who cares about bears or guns anyway? This is Siliconera! This is where we get angry about GAMING! Not armed bears!

Aoshi00

I know man, it’s boring talk.. just an example of how one country shouldn’t interfere w/ another’s domestic issues :) Singapore censors all movies too, but we don’t go tell them they need to have freedom of speech.. ok i’ll stop :) Any more censorship we won’t have Deathsmiles :)

“”Citizen’s right to bear arms” is right in the U.S. Constitution.
“Citizen’s right to sexually exploit and sodomize underage kids” is not in any Japanese law or constitution.”

This made me lol.

By your logic, artwork can lose virginity and has, “feelings” as well which we should ALL take into consideration. Seriously, that’s got to be one of the dumbest things I’ve heard in a while.

Newsflash. Inanimate objects (such as a piece of paper) don’t have feelings. They can’t see you playing, “hanky panky” with yourself and they don’t have a voice to scream for help or anything like that. I think this bill is incredibly stupid.

Secondly, I don’t condone the act of pedophilia, but I have heard that lolis actually provide as an outlet for people that could have potentially become rapists and whatnot. Yeah Japan. Go ahead and pass this idiotic bill later and see what happens.

I’ll tell you what will happen. You’ll have OVER 9,000 Pedobears storming the streets of Akihabara.

Have fun with that, guys.

RupanIII

I’m not saying that it’s right for one country to impose its values on another, but personally, I think there are limits to this moral/cultural relativism. Just because something is a norm in a culture doesn’t make it healthy or benign (U.S. included). Is it okay for Islamic extremists to stone young girls to death for “being immodest” because that’s the norm for them? Okay that’s a more extreme example, but same principle. Also, I don’t think it’s just this nebulous gang of radical feminists or influence from the West. I’m not too knowledgeable about this bill but wasn’t it put forth by Japanese themselves, not forced on them by the evil puritanical West? Despite being pretty unchallenged, not everyone in Japan approves of loli. Anyway, hope I’m not getting too political ;Pp.s. cowcow your 2 most recent posts are showing up as all random text/jargon

Aoshi00

The whole issue was stirred up by the West, and the Jpn gov’t had to respond somehow to appease the advocates/international condemnation. Otherwise, they just want to leave the hentai stuff (one genre of gaming/manga) aside, kinda like don’t ask don’t tell, companies make money off it, otaku get their kicks out of it. I’m sure the Jpn gov’t has more pressing issues to take care of you know.. I know there should be some moral standard, but now they’re arguing 3D vs. 2D, and once you start banning, it opens an entire can of worms, next could be something else. From the looks of it, I think people want their visual novels w/ underage looking girls :)

Code

rar, cowcow’s posts exploded >w<~! Also I'm reminded of this commercial;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQy12MWkPRUrar, I’ll catchup now >ww<! There's my two cents — rar back to important relevant stuff! rar, oh oh oh! Aoshi00 does US 360 microsoft points cards and US Live cards work on Japanese systems? Do you know if your existing live account will work if you swap HDD’s between systems, as in the ability to play online?

Aoshi00

The US MS points and Live cards will work on your Jpn system, but they can only be used when you sign on w/ your US account. The easiest way to transfer your accts is go to setting and move them to your memory card/flash drive, then use it on your new system. I have my US/Jpn accts saved on a memory card, to move btwn my US and Jpn system. When you swap HDD, everything will stay intact, except the installed games need to be installed again :)

RupanIII

This is a reply to Code; Disqus is being annoying and won’t let me put it where it should be :P Yea, well put about trimming the fat. Sometimes traditions can be symptomatic of larger problems that have gone unaddressed, no matter which culture. Also, lol at that commercial, lamp looks so lonely out on the street

SeventhEvening

I’d much rather people who like loli’s get off to fictional lolicon material, rather than get their rocks off to molesting kids.

Just like I’d prefer for people with rape fetishes to have a healthy outlet like rape fiction or rape fantasy games. That’s a pretty nice compared to raping real women. (Or men, equal opportunity raping, I guess)

Aside from the issue regarding Japan’s entertainment media, I find that any person concerned about our freedom should do its best to fight against the idea that fictional characters’s actions can’t be used freely by their creators since they could set up cogent negative examples for readerswatchers or, even more ludicrous, that they have rights and need to be protected from their authors’cruelty. If an author isn’t free to do what he wants to non-existing, totally fictional characters because law dictates what can’t happen to them or what example they can’t set, then the same logic also dictates that even a simple act of violence in a mangaanime should be prohibited: if the rape of a character is wrong because seeingreading it may set up a rapist’s instincts, why should be mutilation, killing, torture and anything of the sort (hell, even a “simple” duel scene) be allowed since their fictional depiction, with the same kind of reasoning, could provide an example to potential serial murderers, torturers, random assaulters and so on?Then again, why only in manga and animes? Western comics and movies have their share of killings, rape scenes, torture, numberless act of violences and abuse and the likes, and with the same logic they should all be censored. But there is more: who can say that a rapistpervertetc can’t get excited and desire to perform unlawful actions simply by reading about a rapeviolent act? For most of mankind’s history people’s dark fantasies have been set in motion by literature rather than movies or comics (for obvious reasons), and if rape is to be abolished from fiction we can’t stop at mangacomicsanimemovies, but must consider that countless thousands of classical works (not only modern, at that: countless greek mythological or tragical texts could be bannedcensored, and the same could happen for many events contained in books of the Holy Bible’s Old Testament, and I say this with all the possible respect being a christian myself) need to be abolished or heavily censored. If we also wants to remove non-sexual acts of violence from licterature then very little would remain, since they are infinitely common. It’s not even limited to narrative literature: even historical and sociological essays could provide negative examples to their readers if they dwell to much on some “borderline” issues.In any case, however, we would be the same as the book-burning Nazis who claimed to be removing “morally degenerate” books for the good of society.Personally I find this censoring intent to be utter folly and morally misguided: mankind has always had its dark sides, violence, wild sexual instinct, even perversions and fetishes, but the idea that they can be limited by avoiding to mention them is exactly the way to make them even more difficult to spot and fight, providing to true rapistperverts a safer cover for their crimes because the society is completely “clean” on the surface. The best environment to fight those issues is an open society that educates its members without blindfolds, not a censor-rampant one that thinks to improve its citizens by making them ignorant in some fields limiting their freedom and their knowledge.You can erase violence, rape and perversions from the entertainment media, but they will be there as long as mankind is on the Earth, and thinking to stop them by avoiding to mentionshow those kind of acts simply reverses the causeeffect chain since they weren’t created by mangaanimesetc, they were in many people’s minds to begin with (and, as Seventh Evening mentioned, in the case of true perverts it’s decidedly better to make them vent off their instincts on fictional materials rather than real people).

Jirin

Why not just have voluntary censorship? If comic shops don’t want to carry images of rape and incest, they don’t have to. Official government censorship of art isn’t worth it.

I don’t buy the argument that violent media causes violent behavior. It’s the opposite. Violent behavior causes violent media. Censorship of violent media will only reduce awareness of it. Violent people do violent things. Maybe they copy something they see in violent media, but if it weren’t for the violent media they’d just copy something else.

Joanna

But why are those people violent in the first place? Do you see your vicious cycle? And please don’t give me, “they are born with it”. Personality is very malleable in the first years of a child’s life.Of course I’m not saying *just* seeing violence will make you violent. It won’t, but it will make you more prone to normalize and accept violence in society. The amount of violence one is exposed to really makes the difference between just accepting violence as normal, and accepting violence as a normal means for human interaction. There are of course other variables, but I’m just giving a general sketch.Best thing to do is probably offer mandatory parent workshops, and teach these kinds of things in school. But of course that would take more effort then simply banning the thing outright.

Edit: in case it wasn’t explicit, I include rape under violent acts.

As for lolis, while I personally don’t like them for a number a reasons, I don’t seeing banning them as doing anything to solve pedophilia (Not that I think liking lolis makes you a pedophile, but that is the assumption of the ones backing this ban). If we *really* want to protect children from sexual predators, we should have state payed mental/behavioral treatments for these individuals (once convicted of course).

karasuKumo

I’m glad this issues been raised because I always found loli disturbing, because the characters are fictional the people I know who like it tend to make up excuses like “oh she only looks that young because of a medical condition” and stuff like that. It is a healthy outlet of their fetishes but putting it on posters around Tokyo crosses a line.

Artavasdus

I agree with you that borderline material such as this is best reserved for the niche who actually likes it, but the issue here isn’t that people can dislike rapeviolenceetc in their media (of course they can), but that there are people who want to censor them completely.Following the same logic, I always found extreme violence, gore, dismemberment and the likes quite disturbing (even if, amusingly, I still like my horrorpulp treats XD), but that doesn’t mean that I want them censored or that I think they should be removed simply because some random guy with mental illnesses could use them as examples for actual crimes.

karasuKumo

I also want it censored completely (in public places) because it really is a private thing.

Exactly, there is a 8 or 9pm (can’t remember which lol) watershed here in the UK for extreme gore, adult themes ect and a similar thing should be implemented in Japan. If children grow up seeing loli and rape manga/anime it could cause problems for them in the future.

“If children grow up seeing loli and rape manga/anime it could cause problems for them in the future.” thats like saying children will grow up shooting fat kids if they see it in a game. or running over someone with a car cuz its in a game. I enjoyed running someone over with a car in GTA but i would never do it in real life. AND if ur children is watching rape and enjoying it its because ur a bad parent letting him watch that stuff in the first place.

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