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Note that spelling during this time greatly varied from person to person and from region to region, so there could easily be better alternatives to the ones I posted.

Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor

Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.

When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

Then I'm God.

Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes

Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.

Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held

I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge, Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

Re: [Faction Research] County of Flanders

I should note that Modern Dutch ''Boer'' wasn't common in the Middle Ages, and most likely gradually worked its way into western dialects via Frisian and Low Saxon. Its likely that during most of our period the word wasn't in usage in Flanders. For example, in the Gruuthuse manuscript there is the ''Kerelslied'', which is an aristocratic song of contempt for the farmers, which indicates that the term Kerel (which is derived from the archaic Germanic freeman class, the Scandinavian Karls and Anglo-Saxon Ceorls) was still synonymus with peasants and farmers in general. So a better name for the Boerenmilitie could be Kerelsmilice.

Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor

Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.

When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

Then I'm God.

Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes

Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.

Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held

I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge, Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

Re: [Faction Research] County of Flanders

Very good information you have there Dr. Croccer, +rep.

Perhaps, if you and everyone interested to provide pictures, references regarding equipment, it will really helps us to design the models.

Also, references regarding how they were training men, army composition, availability, etc. for Flanders along how the Flander's guilds were working will be greatly appreciated, perhaps you could suggest unique buildings, military laws and everything related to something unique to Flanders.

Re: [Faction Research] County of Flanders

@ Dr. Croccer. Can you translate to Middle Dutch and another question: the nobility and count, didnt they speak french in that time?
( I'm Flemish as well btw)

For County of Flanders I would use a special system to reflect their city-based society. Very low recruitment cost for militia units, even for elite militia units like the St. george crossbowmen. BUT: 1) high upkeep costs and 2) guild buildings cost money/upkeep, with that they 'prepare and ready the militia' even before you recruit a unit.

Unique buildings:

St. George's crossbowmen guild ( St. Joris scutters gilde)

Pavise crossbowmen. High upkeep. Limited amount. Well equiped, well armoured.

Bellfroy: medieval bell tower / municipality ( Belfort)

Replaces Town hall.

Cloth hall: (Lakenhalle)

Should replace the top market building in the market chain of vanilla medieval 2.
Requires wool. Produces cloth / linen / tapistry.

Re: [Faction Research] County of Flanders

@ Dr. Croccer. Can you translate to Middle Dutch and another question: the nobility and count, didnt they speak french in that time?

I honestly don't know. I have quite little knowledge of Flanders during this period to be honest, the linguistics are the only area I thought I could give some help.

My two cents, I think it would've been well-known by most literate members of the court and society in general. I don't know if they would've also used it as the lingua franca there, or even as their first language in everyday communication. It certainly is true that nobles, along with the clergy, had more than twice as many non-Germanic (read Romance) names than the commoners, but this was still barely 6% of their group. It's quite likely that France in general had a large cultural and political influence over Flanders.

( I'm Flemish as well btw)

I'm Dutch, actually.

Unique buildings:

St. George's crossbowmen guild ( St. Joris scutters gilde)

Pavise crossbowmen. High upkeep. Limited amount. Well equiped, well armoured.

Sinte Jorijs Cruceboghescuttersgilde.

[quote]

Bellfroy: medieval bell tower / municipality ( Belfort)

Replaces Town hall.

Bellefoort or Balefroet.

Cloth hall: (Lakenhalle)

Should replace the top market building in the market chain of vanilla medieval 2.
Requires wool. Produces cloth / linen / tapistry.

Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.

When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

Then I'm God.

Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes

Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.

Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held

I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge, Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

Re: [Faction Research] County of Flanders

I'm asuming the faction leader title is going to be 'Graaf'', and that's Grauve in Middle Dutch.

Some townnames of the period (I don't know the map so I'm just gonna do the biggest ones of the region)

Ghent - (really spelled alot of different ways, making it hard to determine which is the most ''authentic''') My choice would be just plain Ghent, as the different variations of it are the most common.
Bruges - Brucghe
Leuven - Lovanium, or Loven in the vernacular.
Brussel - Bruocsella, or Brucellas.
Courtrai - Curtrike
Antwerp - Antwerpia, or Antwerpen.
Liege - Lutke
Namur - Namen
Mons - Berghen
Tournai - Dorneke

Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor

Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.

When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

Then I'm God.

Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes

Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.

Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held

I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge, Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

Re: [Faction Research] County of Flanders

@Plumo, LolIsuck and Dr. Croccer

Our team is very thankful with the information you provides, together, we will give something very unique to Flanders, even it was a small faction, they were quite different from England or France in several ways.

We are currently trying to design it but all the building concepts you guys usually see will be completely removed and replaced with a totally new system which when it will be done, we will give you much more information, will try to give the info asap.

Speaking of unique buildings, here's some comments

Sinte Jorijs Cruceboghescuttersgilde
One of the main features of the building system is several requirements is needed in order to get access to certain buildings; it will depends on the resources in the regions, the accessibility, historical fondation, specific place, etc. So what was the condition for Flanders to actually build this guild in a city? What was the main goal of that guild? Defense, trading, public order, etc.?

Bellfroy
Do Bellfroy works and do the same as town hall? If it's the case, what would it be special compared to the rest of the kingdoms?

Now onto the units

I'm currently trying to design something regarding the low tier units and militia perhaps would have to be separated into two types? One Tier One Militia; properly the basic militia with some training and equipment and the Second Tier Militia is militia with additional training, perhaps not as equivalent as professional regular soldiers but some sort of "Urban" Professional? Will try to get this done as well asap.

@Plumo: Also to note, all the buildings will have "upkeep" so this won,t be an issue really, my idea regarding the militia was they would be Free Upkeep, cheap to recruit (Recruitment cost) but with a high Upkeep Cost (they are recruited to defend, not on military campaign).

@Dr. Croccer: Great name list you gave us, it will open a greater variety for names. If there's also unique titles for Flanders, please let us know.

Also, regarding the situation of Flanders in the Hundred Years' War, what were their political issue? They were still independent or under the French control?

Re: [Faction Research] County of Flanders

The biggest part of Flanders was a fee of the French kings from the treaty of Verdun in 843 but the part west of the Scheldt was part of the Holy Roman Empire.
Flanders wasn't under strong influence of the French king but at the end of the 13th and beginning of the 14th century the king tried to take Flanders under permanent control but he failed and was defeated at the battle of the Gulden Spurs. Flanders was acquired by Burgundy in 1384 and in 1482 it went to the house of Habsburg.
So Flanders was independent and it was on the side of England (not suprising since they were highly depending on trade)

Re: [Faction Research] County of Flanders

Originally Posted by lolIsuck

The biggest part of Flanders was a fee of the French kings from the treaty of Verdun in 843 but the part west of the Scheldt was part of the Holy Roman Empire.
Flanders wasn't under strong influence of the French king but at the end of the 13th and beginning of the 14th century the king tried to take Flanders under permanent control but he failed and was defeated at the battle of the Gulden Spurs. Flanders was acquired by Burgundy in 1384 and in 1482 it went to the house of Habsburg.
So Flanders was independent and it was on the side of England (not suprising since they were highly depending on trade)

It is much more complicated. Keep in mind that the big cities in Flanders favoured good relations with England ( they needed English wool for their cloth/linen industry!). A lot depended on the current count of Flanders, some favoured independance from France, others were Frenchminded like Louis I, Count of Flanders. That's why at least 1 Flemish Count died at the battle of Crécy ( fighting the English!)

Re: [Faction Research] County of Flanders

Originally Posted by St. Polycarpe

Sinte Jorijs Cruceboghescuttersgilde
One of the main features of the building system is several requirements is needed in order to get access to certain buildings; it will depends on the resources in the regions, the accessibility, historical fondation, specific place, etc. So what was the condition for Flanders to actually build this guild in a city? What was the main goal of that guild? Defense, trading, public order, etc.?

Bellfroy
Do Bellfroy works and do the same as town hall? If it's the case, what would it be special compared to the rest of the kingdoms?

I'm currently trying to design something regarding the low tier units and militia perhaps would have to be separated into two types? One Tier One Militia; properly the basic militia with some training and equipment and the Second Tier Militia is militia with additional training, perhaps not as equivalent as professional regular soldiers but some sort of "Urban" Professional? Will try to get this done as well asap.

Also, regarding the situation of Flanders in the Hundred Years' War, what were their political issue? They were still independent or under the French control?

1.Sinte Jorijs Cruceboghescuttersgilde:

Only the biggest and richest cities had these guilds. The guild was not only a military organization, but also had a social function. It gave prestige to its members, who were accepted from the wealthy or 'middle class'. Although they fought in many battles over the centuries, it mostly was a social structure.

So it was important for defense and public order, but also had a function that can't be easily translated into a medieval 2 mod: the importance of guilds in the County of Flanders.

2. Bellfroy

You are right. Although bellfroys are quite special ( cause they r mostly found in the County of Flanders) their function ingame would be equal to a normal town hall ( a bellfroy was a symbol of the wealth of a city + the permission they got from the count to build them)...

3. 100 year's war

Flanders position was quite complicated:
I ll try to summarize relations between 1337 and 1453.

Louis I (ruled 1322–1346) : pro-French. Anti-English.
English boycot of wool export to Flanders sparking insurrection by Jacob van Artevelde from Ghent.1340-1345: Flemish insurgents 'allied' to England. Count Louis I in a form of exile to French territory.1346: count Louis I dies at the battle of crécy ( fighting the English).Louis II (ruled 1346-1384): neutrality in 100 year's war.1347: fled Flanders to France, because Flemish towns wanted him to marry an English princess.1382: with the help of a French army, reclaims his county from Flemish insurgents.1383: English aid for Ghent : Despenser's Crusade
...
After that Flanders was together with Burgundy: which changed its allegiance in the 100 year's way a few times...

Re: [Faction Research] County of Flanders

"2. Bellfroy"

all agreed that Flanders host many "town halls" called Bellfroy, and flemishmen merit it in first, but also don't limit the beffrois to the actual Belgium.
The actual region "Nord"(Northern-France" ancient County of Boulogne) used probably the same word to name their "town hall"

This part of France can be directly considered as "culturally" wallon, or the medieval equivalent

Re: [Faction Research] County of Flanders

@Rus-Bey

The Belfroy can also be found in Nord-pas de Calais, I know.
But remember, in the Middle Ages, parts of that area belonged to Flanders at different times, or was heavily influenced by both France and Flanders alike.

@Lollsuck

1. Will you only do unit research or will you also think about special 'mechanisms' for Flanders, to give it a unique style of playing?
While reading books about the county, I can see many possibilities, but I don't know if the engine / vanilla M2 can support it.