Herr Morgenstern:"This debate was painful. It was like watching an astrophysicist argue aerodynamics with a toddler as he blindly insists racing stripes make his scooccurred somewhere in the worldo faster."

Ugh, copy/paste fail (cell phones are my enemy).

"Scooter go faster" is what I was going for.

Actually I think that your first sentence summed up Ham's intellect quite nicely and made more sense than anything Ham said.

Mikey1969:Nye prepared well. On the way to the venue, he picked up a piece of limestone from the roadside, with a fossil in it

Jesus... They were pretty easy to find at the North Rim, but even there, I had to be climbing down the face of the cliffs most of the time, I've never been able to just pull over and grab a fossil. Very cool.

I drunk what:this round goes to Nye (secular science) for being able to keep better composure, regardless of ham making better points and actually defending them (though dodging a few important items)...

2/10. Hits the right nerves, but what kills it is it's the same nerves that are jackhammered to numbness by creationists themselves.

Waldo Pepper:I fully believe sex is a wonder gift from God and no other creature on this planet gets the joy out of it the way humans are gifted with the experience.this is my last word on it for this thread. I grow tired of the circle jerk these threads become for some farkers.

Epicedion:Pentaxian: I would love to see this guy debate Creationists[www.astrobio.net image 492x678]Brother Guy Consolmagno SJ. Head of the Vatican's meteorite collection, one the largest in the world. And I dare Hamm to try to debate Bible theory with him.

Creationist response:

[www.ernestangley.org image 220x275]

I have learned that asking a creationist how they have ascertained, accurately, that what they claim "God" to have stated was in fact stated by "God" causes them to express anger.

Do they honestly believe that a 'naturalistic worldview' and 'worldly thinking' are bad things?

Being raised Southern Baptist I can tell you that they absolutely do.

Wow. If I had kids and my less than 10 year old (going by the age I guess the cartoon is representing) had a naturalistic worldview and exhibited worldly thinking I'm be damn proud of him or her.

A naturalistic worldview and worldly thinking are a waste of time because you already have the answer, and it's Jesus Christ, our personal Lord and Savior. The only thing that you need to think about is how we can stop this war on Christians and our Christian values. Just look at all these gays and atheists and people dancing!!!! Lord we call upon you in the name of your Holy Son to help us win this war on these sinners. Praise be your name, in Jesus name we pray, Amen.

Saiga410:sxacho: I've argued my YEC next door neighbor a bunch of times about all this while his daughters were at the table. I don't know if this is commonplace, though. He's the only one I really know.

I have never had the chance to argue with a YEC. Are these agruements only locked into the age of the universe and past evolution. I am more than happy to let people believe what they want for stuff in the past but moving forward do you agree that current science theories best explain the universe as we know how it works now. Yes, OK nothing to talk about now.

There were a couple in my basic training flight. One who didn't really hold it as a religious worldview but thought it was corrupt scientists following massive piles of money. He was otherwise quite bright and skeptical. Turns out his teacher was sacked for refusing to teach evolution. The other...we stopped talking to him about evolution and that when he dropped the "homosexuality is a psychological disorder" bomb, and started railing on him for that one.

Epicedion:China White Tea: This. If a grown-ass adult insists Santa Claus is real, does that warrant a televised debate? No. You smile and nod and say, "That's nice, is that an hors d'oeuvres tray over there?" and wander off. You're dealing with someone who has a powerful need believe a fantasy. Their entire understanding of both the world and their own identity rely on it. You're not getting any traction there, save your breath.

If a third of the population insists Santa Claus is real and starts trying to spend government money on infrastructure to support Santa, someone needs to say something.

Stay out of shopping malls from October to January, man. Your head'll asplode.

MayoSlather:Nye didn't attack the Bible enough. Ham's whole argument centered around every last word being true. All Nye had to do was point out that Christians don't even buy into all the evil shiat in there, and if they didn't believe any part wasn't true then why should they buy into every word of genesis.

Plus he never hit on the idea that by Ham merely pointing out any mystery in science, it doesn't automatically lead to the conclusion that christianity is automatically correct, which Ham did over and over.

My favorite part of Ham's argument was him naming people who believe the same thing he does (most of them are in his employ it seems) and not being able to get past 6 or so. It was almost like he was waiting for all of our light bulbs to turn on once he named enough.

This debate was painful. It was like watching an astrophysicist argue aerodynamics with a toddler as he blindly insists racing stripes make his scooccurred somewhere in the worldo faster.

Seriously, every time Ham said "You know, Bill, there's this book you may have heard of..." and didn't get punched in the face, a small earthquake occured somewhere in the world to balance out the lack of gravitational shift.

Chthonic Echoes:Nye did well. He seized the opportunity to force-feed science to a captive audience (2.5 hours of "I'm not trapped in here with you. You're trapped in here with me!") who would not otherwise have heard it. He may not have changed any minds, but he might have put some cracks in some walls.

Meanwhile, Ham just recited the same tired arguments his audience has probably heard a hundred times already.