LegendRegularSubscriber

Grrrr. This really irks me.
I got the dlc thru a gift, but was not going to (although it is good) speak out against bad practices somewhat.

Click to expand...

Only practices you want to pay for and those you don't. Because everyone is different, some people will be okay with it and others not. Some will see value in it, and others do not. I'm against preying on addiction though. I don't like the idea of pay 2 win, and even though I'm not affected by it, I can see others that are. I would much prefer that companies take more from me and get all MT's out of the way, but I recognize that most people don't have the disposable income that I do.

Most people would rather use gmail, than pay for an actual email account. no one complains about giving away your personal data.

LegendVeteran

We just got through the discussion of no MT thought, at least there is nothing addictive here.

Recall, these expansions were likely developed and chunked away from the main game (so that they could charge you 70 + 30, where the game should sit at $100, but the market wouldn't accept that price.

Click to expand...

They have MT on top, with rng?!?

Furthermore, they got caught to artificially scale down the ingame progression system: they displayed the correct numbers on screen, but internally scaled xp gain down to as low as 5%.

Then they have DLC: 20 for a 2h story expansion, where again half of the assets are reused...ok, not optimal, but whatsoever.

But then they lock out high lvl content by increasing the level requirement with the update...problem: only dlc owners get a higher level cap. Really? Is this technically necessary? Or quite the unfair move?

Btw, they did similar things in D1, and people hated it. A reason this dev was on my „be cautious“ list.

So tell me, you think this is fair? You think this is necessary? Is it really necessary to make level cap increase exclusive to DLC? Do we rly need a rng based MT system, where players get cheated by the devs when trying to grind ingame by displaying the wrong numbers? Is this the only way this developer can survive?

LegendRegularSubscriber

No, it's not what I want the industry to do to move forward.
But I want the developers to be given as much money as possible to grow out of the hell hole that industry is in.
They don't get paid nearly anywhere close to enterprise on average, their salaries and benefits are laughable compared to major players in the space.

I also want them to continue to evolve games, the scale of them, the depth of them, everything about them.
Everyone wants better AI. AI programmers are the highest in demand right now. Enterprise organizations are paying top dollar for them, so how can studios compete with those wages running bare bones profits.

It's a crazy world. I don't have all the answers, I just know that in order for businesses to survive, you need to protect your margins. If you can't protect your margins you eventually go out of business. Or you're stuck making the same crap over and over again until that product can no longer be sold.

LegendVeteran

But from this point on, games will not evolve anymore as we both wish.

All resources are spend in monetization, none in development of the actual game: D2 is the prime example actually. 90% of assets identical to D1. AI seems even worse. Skills are reused. Skill tree is gone. But yes, graphics have drastically improved. And the story had many CGI cutscenes now.

The games themselves are already suffering, gameplay, progression system, see all the complaints about D2 and the extremely shrinking playerbase.

BF SW devs even admitted that their game is broken...after switching off the MTs due to backlash, everyone saw that the grinding is broken as hell...that is why they are now trying to adjust it.

Ingame progression, fast unlocks is what people love, it was the base of COD success imo. All these new games have extremely slow progression...boring.

Imo, the industry is currently digging their own hole and they don‘t even realize it. EA lost 3bil in stock. Many devs are digging their own hole imo by not standing up against shady business. They will suffer first, as the publisher will just close them down...

Legend

^^Sounds like just another way to hate Bungie manifested...the hate is kinda outta control, nobody forces anybody to buy or play this game if you dont like it, go play something else and stay away (yeah right)

I realize crucible is just a Prometheus Lens fest, but once that settles down..I got a AR called Positive Outlook...I think it's a monster. I kept it once it dropped because it's a 450 RPM like Uriels...it's a tack driver with a fantastic sight picture seems like. Extremely stable.

Supposedly 450 RPM Autos got nerfed but last I heard it was kinda a nerf-buff so we'll see how the meta settles out, but if 450 RPM AR's stay meta that's one to watch. already got killed by it in limited crucible time in between Prometheus Lens so I suspect I'm right and I'm loving my own use of it.

LegendVeteran

^^Sounds like just another way to hate Bungie manifested...the hate is kinda outta control, nobody forces anybody to buy or play this game if you dont like it, go play something else and stay away (yeah right)

I realize crucible is just a Prometheus Lens fest, but once that settles down..I got a AR called Positive Outlook...I think it's a monster. I kept it once it dropped because it's a 450 RPM like Uriels...it's a tack driver with a fantastic sight picture seems like. Extremely stable.

Supposedly 450 RPM Autos got nerfed but last I heard it was kinda a nerf-buff so we'll see how the meta settles out, but if 450 RPM AR's stay meta that's one to watch. already got killed by it in limited crucible time in between Prometheus Lens so I suspect I'm right and I'm loving my own use of it.

Click to expand...

That is true, no one forces anybody.

However, Bungie is the only game dev I am aware of that puts content you already paid for behind a paywall later.

People paid for the game and could play certain high lvl events and modes. But now, these are locked.

LegendVeteran

^^Sounds like just another way to hate Bungie manifested...the hate is kinda outta control, nobody forces anybody to buy or play this game if you dont like it, go play something else and stay away (yeah right)

I realize crucible is just a Prometheus Lens fest, but once that settles down..I got a AR called Positive Outlook...I think it's a monster. I kept it once it dropped because it's a 450 RPM like Uriels...it's a tack driver with a fantastic sight picture seems like. Extremely stable.

Supposedly 450 RPM Autos got nerfed but last I heard it was kinda a nerf-buff so we'll see how the meta settles out, but if 450 RPM AR's stay meta that's one to watch. already got killed by it in limited crucible time in between Prometheus Lens so I suspect I'm right and I'm loving my own use of it.

Click to expand...

When you read reviews of weapons, you have to consider if they're on PC or console. Positive Outlook has a very low base aim assist of 36, which obviously doesn't matter on PC. Uriels by comparison is 54, the highest in its class of ARs. Uriels Tap the trigger plus HCR perks (even if it was nerfed) will still give you a solid and consistent feeling AR, and I still personally think I might prefer it for PVP. PVE on the other hand, Positive Outlook is definitely the better weapon.

Lucked out lastnight and got Prometheus Lens from a Zavala power engram, but didn't have time to test it. Played against people using it and my group and I quickly realized how broken it is.

Legend

It effectively says that $60 you paid just a few months ago was just a down payment on your progression in this game. Want to go higher? You need to give us more cash!

Kind of BS in my mind.
If they want to lock of the dlc areas to those not choosing to buy the expansion, then that's fair, but to lock your leveling behind that paywall is crap.

Does anyone know if the new weapons are also locked behind the dlc?
If so, then it's another black eye as it puts you at a disadvantage in PvP gameplay as well.

I'm not at all against companies making a profit, but I feel that they need to balance that with pro consumer practices as well. In this case, the correct balance has not been struck imo.

Click to expand...

Why are people unhappy about this now? This is how it's been for ages. Diabo 3, FFXIV, WoW, Everquest (back in the 90's), Borderlands 2, Borderlands and numerous other games that offered expanded levels with expansions/DLC required that you buy the expansion/DLC to gain the additional levels.

The additional levels weren't required for the content that was purchased. You could still do everything in that existing content with the levels that came with that content.

I'm not sure what exactly is getting locked with the expansion for Destiny 2, but as long as the previous content (previous Raid for example, but not current Raid) is available to players, I really fail to see the problem.

Bungie certainly aren't the first to do this. It would have actually been extremely unusual if they hadn't done this.

RegularNewcomer

Before the DLC, Bungo added prestige mode to Nightfall & Raid, which is a harder version of those activities.
Finishing the raid or a nightfall in prestige mode is required to obtain the last trophy from the game.
After the DLC, they locked the prestige difficulty to 330 light level which can only be reached with the DLC.
So people who only have the base game cannot play the prestige activities and get all trophies from the base game.
That is what's frowned upon, the bungie's touch.

Veteran

Why are people unhappy about this now? This is how it's been for ages. Diabo 3, FFXIV, WoW, Everquest (back in the 90's), Borderlands 2, Borderlands and numerous other games that offered expanded levels with expansions/DLC required that you buy the expansion/DLC to gain the additional levels.

The additional levels weren't required for the content that was purchased. You could still do everything in that existing content with the levels that came with that content.

I'm not sure what exactly is getting locked with the expansion for Destiny 2, but as long as the previous content (previous Raid for example, but not current Raid) is available to players, I really fail to see the problem.

Bungie certainly aren't the first to do this. It would have actually been extremely unusual if they hadn't done this.

Regards,
SB

Click to expand...

I think I may have stated it badly. I'm not talking about game levels, I'm talking about character level.
The cap sans dlc is 305 power level with a modifier. For the dlc, it's 330-335 with a modifier.

If weapons and gear are also locked behind the dlc, it also puts players that haven't bought the dlc at a severe disadvantage. Imo, it sends an unintended (or intended) message that to play the game in PvP and be competitive that you need to plan to continue to shell out the cash through the games lifetime.

Diablo 3, I don't recall ever locked your character power levels behind dlc. I'd actually put Blizzard behind devs that have done this right imo. All new characters and maps in Overwatch are available to all players. MT for loot boxes (damn RNG) are for cosmetic and non-gameplay items.

Legend

However, Bungie is the only game dev I am aware of that puts content you already paid for behind a paywall later.

People paid for the game and could play certain high lvl events and modes. But now, these are locked.

Click to expand...

The game and Bungie are 4 years old now...people should know better if they hate it so much. Nobody can use the "I didn't know" excuse at this point.

BTW I'm sure others have put "content you already paid for" behind a paywall, though I dont know any specific examples, but there are thousands of games out there so yeah.

People come up with the wildest propaganda phrases. One I heard about Destiny is the DLC is "cut content already on the disc being sold back to you" (or something like that). Hilarious. So I guess Horizon: Frozen Wilds or The latest COD expansion is also "cut content being sold back to you", right? No, I'm sure somehow that's completely different...

I'm not really defending D2, I think they've "borified" the formula quite a lot from D1, making the game much less addicting and easier to walk away from. But like I said, the Bungie hate gets outta control. Am I crazy to just play the game in spurts and maybe enjoy it sometimes? I just kinda tune the noise out at this point, it's out of whack with reality for the most part. You'd think this game will grow legs and murder your mother if you buy it at this point...

Again, all for something nobody is forced to buy or play.

People should get as worked up for real problems in the world as they do for video games DLC, I always say!

Legend

I'm not sure what exactly is getting locked with the expansion for Destiny 2, but as long as the previous content (previous Raid for example, but not current Raid) is available to players, I really fail to see the problem.

Click to expand...

I think the prestige Raid was increased to 330 power level or something. Since you can only achieve that (330 power) with the DLC, people say it defacto locks out prestige raid content, as I understand it...there was no new raid with this expansion. So, they had to do something to keep the current raid relevant, aka they had to increase it's power/loot level. Prestige raid is a subset of "the raid" anyway though. I'm not current on what's different.

BTW there is no raid AND NO NEW ACTIVITY with this expansion, unless I miss something. Isn't this a first for Destiny? It really is kinda bad then. Is the Mercury adventures, which I guess are lame and low reward (AFAIK, I have not played them) supposed to be the new activity?

In that respect it is pretty lame, 20 bucks for 2.5 hours of new campaign in a way, ALTHOUGH on the flip side, people (like me) play this game so much $20 could be understood as a good value just as some sort of "continuing rental" fee. For like me who doesn't buy microtransactions.

Veteran

I think I have figured it out, Bungie is bored of Destiny. So they invited all the bean counters in Activision over for a brainstorming session on how to improve the game. And now they are implementing all those ideas. Hoping for a backlash and that the Destiny brand gets killed.

This way, they can focus 110% on their new love child : 3 ynitsed.....

ModeratorLegendAlphaSubscriber

I think I have figured it out, Bungie is bored of Destiny. So they invited all the bean counters in Activision over for a brainstorming session on how to improve the game. And now they are implementing all those ideas. Hoping for a backlash and that the Destiny brand gets killed.

Legend

Diablo 3, I don't recall ever locked your character power levels behind dlc. I'd actually put Blizzard behind devs that have done this right imo. All new characters and maps in Overwatch are available to all players. MT for loot boxes (damn RNG) are for cosmetic and non-gameplay items.

Click to expand...

D3 you are locked to level 60 without purchasing the expansion pass. Not that big of a deal as level 60 is all your need for the original content. IE - you cannot participate in Seasons, Rifts, Bounties, etc. which all require not only level 70, but the gear that comes with it to proceed (IE - G-Rifts aren't even available until level 70).

If prior content originally released is now 100% locked (ie - you can't even get into it) without access to the DLC, then yes, that wasn't a good way to handle it. They should have just either added a new raid, or added another difficulty and reward tier above the "prestige" raid.

About Us

Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!