gimmegimme:Mock26: gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND. My five-year-old has ADHD. Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie? His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox. His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to. I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.

Take him out into the woods, hand him his XBox, tell him that there is an outlet in a tree just over the next hill, and drive away as fast as you can! If he makes it home alive then all is good. If not, well, all is still good.

He has very acute allergies to bark, pollen, chlorophyll and dirt and he's orientation-declined. You have no idea how hard it is to get the accommodations he needs.

Then seal him up in an airtight plastic bag before setting him free in the woods.

radarlove:dj_bigbird: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order order become a disorder? When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

FTFY. Pretty much anything that it's docile submission to teachers, parents, law enforcement, etc. is a disorder that can only be dealt with by drugging.

Well put, and I think that it really gets at the crux of the problem- we've become a society that takes the easy way out. Instead of sitting down with people and helping them work out their problems and find a path that works for their unique mindset, we pump them full of chemicals.

I don't deny that there are a few severe disorders out there that genuinely require the use of serious, mind-altering medications. Those disorders, though, are few and far between, and we throw pills at people at the first signs of trouble. I have been subject to this myself on multiple occasions.

Yep. As an LPC, most of the clients I see would benefit immensely from just talking to someone who can help them, but I'm telling you its the damn insurance companies that control the mental health industry. It's all about cost controls, and it's waaaaay to expensive to pay for time consuming therapy sessions when you can just write a prescription for some meds and kick them out the door. The generous health insurance policies cover just 5 (maybe 8) counseling sessions, then they expect a prescription to be written. This makes doing my job extremely difficult. Most people don't know this, but its actually a requirement for billing purposes that we assign a diagnosis to all our clients. Every single person that walks into my office leaves with some type of V-code attached to their file, or else I can't get paid for it. All because that's how health insurance companies gauge progress of the treatment, if we tack a name on whatever it is you're suffering from, then we can get paid to treat you. This takes the focus away from the person and places it squarely on the diagnosis and how I can treat their issues the fastest, most cost effective way possible. It's a farked up system, but it's all we've got right now.

What has hurt me the most as an adult with childhood diagnosed disorders has been the assumption that I would grow out of them. That turned to mis-diagnosis into adulthood. I went through a hell of a three years with a bi-polar diagnosis - I was a zombie and missed some great things around me. Once I met a halfway competent psychiatrist, he bothered to ask me about childhood disorders, and took me off of the bi-polar drugs and treated me for ADHD. I can honestly say that I am the happiest and most successful I have ever been.

downstairs:Also, when it comes to mental disorders/problems... that requires a lot of work on part of the patient to admit it. Compared to a disease like cancer or whatever, where its pretty damn clear if you have it or not.

When you can crack open a mentally ill person, and point to the crazy in the same way you can point at cancer, then the disease model of mental illness might be a useful way of thinking about the problem.

Till then, I think we might have to accept that mental illness is to some extent a social construction, and we might have gone overboard in labeling as "ill" things that used to be simply regarded as, "unfortunate," "odd," or "inconvenient."

reklamfox:radarlove: dj_bigbird: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order order become a disorder? When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

FTFY. Pretty much anything that it's docile submission to teachers, parents, law enforcement, etc. is a disorder that can only be dealt with by drugging.

Well put, and I think that it really gets at the crux of the problem- we've become a society that takes the easy way out. Instead of sitting down with people and helping them work out their problems and find a path that works for their unique mindset, we pump them full of chemicals.

I don't deny that there are a few severe disorders out there that genuinely require the use of serious, mind-altering medications. Those disorders, though, are few and far between, and we throw pills at people at the first signs of trouble. I have been subject to this myself on multiple occasions.

Yep. As an LPC, most of the clients I see would benefit immensely from just talking to someone who can help them, but I'm telling you its the damn insurance companies that control the mental health industry. It's all about cost controls, and it's waaaaay to expensive to pay for time consuming therapy sessions when you can just write a prescription for some meds and kick them out the door. The generous health insurance policies cover just 5 (maybe 8) counseling sessions, then they expect a prescription to be written. This makes doing my job extremely difficult. Most people don't know this, but its actually a requirement for billing purposes that we assign a diagnosis to all our clients. Every single person that walks into my office leaves with some type of V-code attached to their file, or else I can't get paid for it. All because that's how health insurance companies gauge progress of the treatment, if we tack a name on whatever it is you're suffering from, then we can get paid to treat you. This takes the focus away from the person and places it squarely on the diagnosis and how I can ...

And that's to say nothing of folks like me who have no insurance and have to rely on the "free" clinic public mental health services. I have no doubt that those poor folks are under even more pressure to get people medicated and out the door.

reklamfox:Theeng: Can we just require psychiatrist/psychologist diagnosis as a requirement for a mental illness diagnosis, and not have general practitioners who know little of current psychology diagnose a kid because the parents think the kid has it?

Yes. Its called Integrated Care and its mandated by the ACA.

DISCLAIMER:I am a LPC in the state of VA and I work crisis intervention which requires me to diagnose people for a living all day long.

Believe me, I have heard every complaint out there about over diagnosis and its a very real problem. Integrated care basically creates jobs for mental health professionals in GP offices specifically to field and diagnose mental health issues. The problem with the medical model is that doctors generally get 15 minutes with a patient and they are supposed to move on quickly. This teaches doctors to ignore mental health red flags because they are either not trained/don't have enough time to deal with it. Instead they just write up an outside referral and hope for the best. But of course most people with serious mental health issues won't seek out counseling because our society places such a large stigma on mental illness. No one wants to be seen getting out of their car at the counselors office. Integrated Care brings mental health worker into the GP offices so if a doctor picks up on some symptoms or other mental issues, they no longer have to give the patient an outside referral they can just send them down the hallway and it becomes like a one stop shop. This also cuts down on GP's giving out diagnoses that they know nothing about (because there is a HUGE difference between medical diagnoses and mental health diagnosis).tl;dr: Integrated Care = GOOD

/End rant

This.

Family Physicians are good for chronic illnesses like uncomplicated high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and the occasional flu or fever. They're good if you need a suture or two in a pinch.

They have no, and let me repeat this, NO GODDAMN PLACE diagnosing children with mental health disorders, and prescribing psychiatric medications to them, imho. Five minutes every month is NOT enough time to properly tune a medicine which farks with their brain chemistry, and many pediatric mental health diagnoses can be completely complex to perform. (I.e. ADHD vs. Bipolar disorder)

Quite frankly, I personally think that any child with a suspected mental health disorder should be required to be referred into a pediatric inpatient program for the first week, at least, they are on that medication, and monitored by licensed psychiatric health professionals with experience in pediatrics.

/diagnosed with ADHD at age 5.//done so through a residential treatment program.

My mother in law keeps telling me my youngest needs medication because her youngest was a nightmare until he got Ritalin for his ADHD. My kid is autistic. The difference is lost on her. And she's a first grade teacher. Sleep well.

gimmegimme:WhippingBoy: gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND. My five-year-old has ADHD. Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie? His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox. His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to. I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.

He's also a genius, right?

Well, he's already sharing at a third-grade level, but that's unofficial. It would be wrong to quantify performance in any way.

rka:gimmegimme: WhippingBoy: gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND. My five-year-old has ADHD. Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie? His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox. His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to. I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.

He's also a genius, right?

Well, he's already sharing at a third-grade level, but that's unofficial. It would be wrong to quantify performance in any way.

Top Quality.

Thank you for saying so. Not everyone is so nice. He went to a birthday party last week. I made it clear to the parents that he needed pizza with a gluten-free crust and non-dairy cheese that wouldn't aggravate his lactose intolerance and that he chooses not to eat any toppings that are green, red, yellow or brown on his pizza. The mother rolled her eyes. Can you believe it?

radarlove:jehovahs witness protection: You're making this too easy, so I will refrain.

Allow me to make it even easier for you in order to remove the temptation completely- that was an explicit admission that I've been treated by professionals for psychological issues, in this case depression. I find no shame in this- even Hamlet had The Melancholy. Now I realize that this is an uncomfortable amount of candor because we usually keep these issues to ourselves, but in the scope of the topic of over-prescribing dangerous, brain-changing chemicals and the adverse affects that these medications can have, I feel that it is important to be candid and forthcoming about my background.

For real, dude that replied to you obviously has no interest in reasoned debate.

I won't bother talking about my experiences with psychiatrists, but let's just say i usually argue them down politically before i even bother getting into any "issues" that i have, majority are worthless.

Waste of money imo, rather just tell society to fark off until people come around to the reality of the matter.

Kali-Yuga:radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order? When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

Pretty much, why do you think religious belief is such a socially acceptable mass delusion?

A belief only becomes a delusion when one closes one's self off from all other possibilities and demands that their belief is the only possible answer. This goes for all things, but for religion, doubly so.

knowless:I won't bother talking about my experiences with psychiatrists, but let's just say i usually argue them down politically before i even bother getting into any "issues" that i have, majority are worthless.

Hey man, if you can ever find one that actually wants to get down to brass tacks and actually discuss your issues, hold on to him or her. They are few and far between.

I've actually asked a few during our first session if they have any background in the pharmaceutical industry and if they've ever received money, grants, or scholarships from any pharmaceutical companies. It doesn't really go over well, but I don't think that's because they're in cahootz with Big Pharma. I think it's more like they find it distasteful and tactless and a bit offensive that I would ask. And they're probably right.

My apologies reklam, I didn't want to bag on anything you did, but GPs diagnosing mental illness is certainly a problem here in TN. Thanks for talking about the Integrated Care though, I had forgotten about that, I'm used to being wrong though.

Also, can we slap all the assholes who talk as if mental illness is something that you just need willpower/ subscribe to their special diet or way of life to overcome. Doubly so if they self diagnose themselves with a socially acceptable amount of mental problems then talk about how they've overcome it?

gimmegimme:You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND. My five-year-old has ADHD. Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie? His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox. His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to. I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.

8/10--I'm sure you'll at least get some bites out of this :D (Alas, not from me. I know this is one of the more common scenarios in which unschooling happens.)

That said--as people have noted, a lot of this is due to diagnosis changes (in particular, generalised anxiety and depression now being formally recognised in pre-adolescent kids, and a general expansion of what constitutes an ASD per the DSM-V).

There is a part of me which wonders how many of these kids are misdiagnosed--not just the case of an Active Boy diagnosed with ADHD because he doesn't get to run around and explore and play thanks to helicopter parents, but stuff like (for example) complex PTSD resulting from childhood abuse being misdiagnosed as an ASD or depression or generalised anxiety disorder.

Unfortunately--especially in dominionist households using religiously motivated child abuse a la the Pearls or Gothard cult--childhood PTSD and complex PTSD are surprisingly common; this applies doubly to kids who have the misfortune to be LGBT or otherwise genderqueer in dominionist households (in fact, there actually is a pretty major homelessness crisis among gay teens pretty much directly caused by kids having to either escape for their lives or being thrown out of their houses for being gay...essentially it's the American version of the sub-Saharan African "Witch Children" humanitarian crisis). Complex PTSD (a type of PTSD caused by repeated traumas over time, as opposed to One Big Trauma) is itself only fairly recently recognised, and primarily among both survivors of child abuse and neglect and walkaways from coercive religious groups (and there is a subset--multigenerational walkaways--for whom the two sets tend to overlap)--folks with it still tend to (even as adults) get misdiagnosed with generalised anxiety disorder, because the DSM (and more specifically, insurance coding) hasn't quite caught up with its recognition yet.

/full disclosure--some of the research I do and the researchers I work with focus on religiously motivated child abuse and neglect...the stuff in the "fundie homeschooling" thread the other day is the LIGHTER end of some of what goes on and tends to (sadly) get a get-out-of-jail-free card thanks to broad religious exemptions//"Bible-based" coercive religious groups--like NARasites and "fundamental Baptist" Christian Reconstructionist coercive groups--have especially been given a pass, because nobody likes to think of "God-fearing" people as being in the same light as, say, the Moonies///why yes, I AM in a longterm study of multigenerational walkaways, how did you guess? :D (One researcher pretty much directly compared what I'd experienced in a NARasitised Assemblies of God church to reports from multigenerational walkaways from Scientology)

Theeng:Also, can we slap all the assholes who talk as if mental illness is something that you just need willpower/ subscribe to their special diet or way of life to overcome. Doubly so if they self diagnose themselves with a socially acceptable amount of mental problems then talk about how they've overcome it?

This. Life is full of incredibly complex issues that most folks don't have the time to study up on. Sometimes you need a hand with an issue, and you go see a specialist. Ain't no more shame in seeing a person who has devoted their life to helping people work out emotional or mental issues than there is in seeing a person who has devoted their life to understanding cars when your carburetor breaks. We can't all be specialists in everything- that's why we're still doing this whole society thing. Got a problem? Talk to someone who knows more about it than you do.

reklamfox:radarlove: dj_bigbird: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order order become a disorder? When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

FTFY. Pretty much anything that it's docile submission to teachers, parents, law enforcement, etc. is a disorder that can only be dealt with by drugging.

Well put, and I think that it really gets at the crux of the problem- we've become a society that takes the easy way out. Instead of sitting down with people and helping them work out their problems and find a path that works for their unique mindset, we pump them full of chemicals.

I don't deny that there are a few severe disorders out there that genuinely require the use of serious, mind-altering medications. Those disorders, though, are few and far between, and we throw pills at people at the first signs of trouble. I have been subject to this myself on multiple occasions.

Yep. As an LPC, most of the clients I see would benefit immensely from just talking to someone who can help them, but I'm telling you its the damn insurance companies that control the mental health industry. It's all about cost controls, and it's waaaaay to expensive to pay for time consuming therapy sessions when you can just write a prescription for some meds and kick them out the door. The generous health insurance policies cover just 5 (maybe 8) counseling sessions, then they expect a prescription to be written. This makes doing my job extremely difficult. Most people don't know this, but its actually a requirement for billing purposes that we assign a diagnosis to all our clients. Every single person that walks into my office leaves with some type of V-code attached to their file, or else I can't get paid for it. All because that's how health insurance companies gauge progress of the treatment, if we tack a name on whatever it is you're suffering from, then we can get paid to treat you. This takes the focus away from the person and places it squarely on the diagnosis and how I can ...

I'm very lucky. EAP covers 8 sessions, but after that there is no limit to the amount of individual and group counseling I receive. My company rocks.

Great Porn Dragon:gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND. My five-year-old has ADHD. Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie? His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox. His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to. I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.

8/10--I'm sure you'll at least get some bites out of this :D (Alas, not from me. I know this is one of the more common scenarios in which unschooling happens.)

That said--as people have noted, a lot of this is due to diagnosis changes (in particular, generalised anxiety and depression now being formally recognised in pre-adolescent kids, and a general expansion of what constitutes an ASD per the DSM-V).

There is a part of me which wonders how many of these kids are misdiagnosed--not just the case of an Active Boy diagnosed with ADHD because he doesn't get to run around and explore and play thanks to helicopter parents, but stuff like (for example) complex PTSD resulting from childhood abuse being misdiagnosed as an ASD or depression or generalised anxiety disorder.

Unfortunately--especially in dominionist households using religiously motivated child abuse a la the Pearls or Gothard cult--childhood PTSD and complex PTSD are surprisingly common; this applies doubly to kids who have the misfortune to be LGBT or otherwise genderqueer in dominionist households (in fact, there actually is a pretty major homelessness crisis among gay teens pretty much directly caused by kids having to either escape for their lives or being thrown out of their houses for being gay...essentially it's the American version of the sub-Saharan African "Wi ...

1) I absolutely love that you, "Great Porn Study," are some kind of sociological researcher or something.

2) The overdiagnosis of these kinds of problems hurt those people (young and old) who really do have problems. Some folks don't understand why their two-year-old runs around and shouts all the time. Why their fourteen-year-olds won't willingly sit down for eight hours of homework a day. They mistake normal behavior for abnormal behavior.

3) I agree with you. Religions force people to believe they are inherently broken. The self/over-diagnosers are the same way. If you tell an otherwise normal young person that he or she can't learn, they'll prove you right.

radarlove:Theeng: Also, can we slap all the assholes who talk as if mental illness is something that you just need willpower/ subscribe to their special diet or way of life to overcome. Doubly so if they self diagnose themselves with a socially acceptable amount of mental problems then talk about how they've overcome it?

This. Life is full of incredibly complex issues that most folks don't have the time to study up on. Sometimes you need a hand with an issue, and you go see a specialist. Ain't no more shame in seeing a person who has devoted their life to helping people work out emotional or mental issues than there is in seeing a person who has devoted their life to understanding cars when your carburetor breaks. We can't all be specialists in everything- that's why we're still doing this whole society thing. Got a problem? Talk to someone who knows more about it than you do.

My carburetor guy gets my business because, when I have a broken carburetor, he fixes it.

Bumblefark:radarlove: Theeng: Also, can we slap all the assholes who talk as if mental illness is something that you just need willpower/ subscribe to their special diet or way of life to overcome. Doubly so if they self diagnose themselves with a socially acceptable amount of mental problems then talk about how they've overcome it?

This. Life is full of incredibly complex issues that most folks don't have the time to study up on. Sometimes you need a hand with an issue, and you go see a specialist. Ain't no more shame in seeing a person who has devoted their life to helping people work out emotional or mental issues than there is in seeing a person who has devoted their life to understanding cars when your carburetor breaks. We can't all be specialists in everything- that's why we're still doing this whole society thing. Got a problem? Talk to someone who knows more about it than you do.

My carburetor guy gets my business because, when I have a broken carburetor, he fixes it.

What is the success rate in curing psychopathologies?

In curing? I have no idea. I'm not even sure a psychopathology is something that can be cured, in the traditional sense. But a good mental health professional can certainly help a person cope with some of the things going on in their head and in their life, and that keeps the motor running. With a machine this complex, I'd call that a success.

gimmegimme:Great Porn Dragon: gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND. My five-year-old has ADHD. Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie? His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox. His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to. I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.

8/10--I'm sure you'll at least get some bites out of this :D (Alas, not from me. I know this is one of the more common scenarios in which unschooling happens.)

That said--as people have noted, a lot of this is due to diagnosis changes (in particular, generalised anxiety and depression now being formally recognised in pre-adolescent kids, and a general expansion of what constitutes an ASD per the DSM-V).

There is a part of me which wonders how many of these kids are misdiagnosed--not just the case of an Active Boy diagnosed with ADHD because he doesn't get to run around and explore and play thanks to helicopter parents, but stuff like (for example) complex PTSD resulting from childhood abuse being misdiagnosed as an ASD or depression or generalised anxiety disorder.

Unfortunately--especially in dominionist households using religiously motivated child abuse a la the Pearls or Gothard cult--childhood PTSD and complex PTSD are surprisingly common; this applies doubly to kids who have the misfortune to be LGBT or otherwise genderqueer in dominionist households (in fact, there actually is a pretty major homelessness crisis among gay teens pretty much directly caused by kids having to either escape for their lives or being thrown out of their houses for being gay...essentially it's the American version of the sub- ...

Until this post, I would have sworn you were channeling my neighbor. Well, mainly because of how I acted at the pizza joint with her and spawn last year. All the other boys are running around like tweaking otters, and hers is lounging around like a porn manatee.

radarlove:Bumblefark: radarlove: Theeng: Also, can we slap all the assholes who talk as if mental illness is something that you just need willpower/ subscribe to their special diet or way of life to overcome. Doubly so if they self diagnose themselves with a socially acceptable amount of mental problems then talk about how they've overcome it?

This. Life is full of incredibly complex issues that most folks don't have the time to study up on. Sometimes you need a hand with an issue, and you go see a specialist. Ain't no more shame in seeing a person who has devoted their life to helping people work out emotional or mental issues than there is in seeing a person who has devoted their life to understanding cars when your carburetor breaks. We can't all be specialists in everything- that's why we're still doing this whole society thing. Got a problem? Talk to someone who knows more about it than you do.

My carburetor guy gets my business because, when I have a broken carburetor, he fixes it.

What is the success rate in curing psychopathologies?

In curing? I have no idea. I'm not even sure a psychopathology is something that can be cured, in the traditional sense. But a good mental health professional can certainly help a person cope with some of the things going on in their head and in their life, and that keeps the motor running. With a machine this complex, I'd call that a success.

Fair response. I certainly don't begrudge people seeking out help with their problems, however they see fit. Whether it's a psychiatrist, a priest, or a prostitute -- more power to them.

I'm just skeptical of a quasi-medical profession that tells people that the cause of their mental anguish is an underlying "disease" or "disorder" of their mind -- one that can never be cured (or even verified apart from the supposed "symptoms" that give rise to the diagnosis) but can instead only be "managed"...usually through an open-ended regimen of drugs or psychotherapy. (Especially when the efficacy of those treatments is very often ambiguous, at best.)

Bumblefark:radarlove: Bumblefark: radarlove: Theeng: Also, can we slap all the assholes who talk as if mental illness is something that you just need willpower/ subscribe to their special diet or way of life to overcome. Doubly so if they self diagnose themselves with a socially acceptable amount of mental problems then talk about how they've overcome it?

This. Life is full of incredibly complex issues that most folks don't have the time to study up on. Sometimes you need a hand with an issue, and you go see a specialist. Ain't no more shame in seeing a person who has devoted their life to helping people work out emotional or mental issues than there is in seeing a person who has devoted their life to understanding cars when your carburetor breaks. We can't all be specialists in everything- that's why we're still doing this whole society thing. Got a problem? Talk to someone who knows more about it than you do.

My carburetor guy gets my business because, when I have a broken carburetor, he fixes it.

What is the success rate in curing psychopathologies?

In curing? I have no idea. I'm not even sure a psychopathology is something that can be cured, in the traditional sense. But a good mental health professional can certainly help a person cope with some of the things going on in their head and in their life, and that keeps the motor running. With a machine this complex, I'd call that a success.

Fair response. I certainly don't begrudge people seeking out help with their problems, however they see fit. Whether it's a psychiatrist, a priest, or a prostitute -- more power to them.

I'm just skeptical of a quasi-medical profession that tells people that the cause of their mental anguish is an underlying "disease" or "disorder" of their mind -- one that can never be cured (or even verified apart from the supposed "symptoms" that give rise to the diagnosis) but can instead only be "managed"...usually through an open-ended regimen of drugs or psychotherapy. (Especially wh ...

The simple fact of the matter is, the brain is so immensely complex and delicate that what you want is basically impossible at this point in time. The reason treatment is open-ended is that for the most part no mental illness can be traced to one simple thing, there is no virus, no tumor to target. Instead mental health providers are left with a myriad of possiblities from chemical imbalances, genetic defects, environmental causes, etc. to identify and treat, and oh by the way the patient may at any time just decide to stop taking medication/stop showing up to counseling sessions. It is for all intents and purposes trying to hit a target 500 feet away in a opaque cloud as opposed to a target 50 feet away in broad daylight.

Skeptical is fine when you do it from an informed perspective, but you seem to base your skepticism on ignorance, which is never a good thing.

1) the average diet today is so sugar loaded/ processed and chemically treated that many people barely eat real food anymore. So along with messing up internal chemical balance we continue to get fatter.

This. Researchers keep trying to say that in clinical studies, sugar doesn't affect behavior. Show me a kid who hasn't had sugar --ever-- participating in these studies. Also, a recent study found that there is a susceptible population of kids who react adversely to artificial colors. Another recent study found that a generic kids multivitamin improved behavior in autistic kids. When it comes to diet... Garbage In == Garbage Out.

Bumblefark:Fair response. I certainly don't begrudge people seeking out help with their problems, however they see fit. Whether it's a psychiatrist, a priest, or a prostitute -- more power to them.

I'm just skeptical of a quasi-medical profession that tells people that the cause of their mental anguish is an underlying "disease" or "disorder" of their mind -- one that can never be cured (or even verified apart from the supposed "symptoms" that give rise to the diagnosis) but can instead only be "managed"...usually through an open-ended regimen of drugs or psychotherapy. (Especially when the efficacy of those treatments is very often ambiguous, at best.)

I mean...on it's face, that kind of looks like a racket, to me.

Part of the reason it looks so 'sketchy' to you is because we know about as much about the human brain as we know about black holes. It ain't a hell of a lot. It's like trying to cure the common cold when you still think leeches are a great idea. There's only so much you can do.

/Take a psych class, I think you'd learn a lot from it. And it's pretty fun if you get a good teacher.

PsiChick:Bumblefark: Fair response. I certainly don't begrudge people seeking out help with their problems, however they see fit. Whether it's a psychiatrist, a priest, or a prostitute -- more power to them.

I'm just skeptical of a quasi-medical profession that tells people that the cause of their mental anguish is an underlying "disease" or "disorder" of their mind -- one that can never be cured (or even verified apart from the supposed "symptoms" that give rise to the diagnosis) but can instead only be "managed"...usually through an open-ended regimen of drugs or psychotherapy. (Especially when the efficacy of those treatments is very often ambiguous, at best.)

I mean...on it's face, that kind of looks like a racket, to me.

Part of the reason it looks so 'sketchy' to you is because we know about as much about the human brain as we know about black holes. It ain't a hell of a lot. It's like trying to cure the common cold when you still think leeches are a great idea. There's only so much you can do.

/Take a psych class, I think you'd learn a lot from it. And it's pretty fun if you get a good teacher.

reklamfox:radarlove: dj_bigbird: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order order become a disorder? When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

FTFY. Pretty much anything that it's docile submission to teachers, parents, law enforcement, etc. is a disorder that can only be dealt with by drugging.

Well put, and I think that it really gets at the crux of the problem- we've become a society that takes the easy way out. Instead of sitting down with people and helping them work out their problems and find a path that works for their unique mindset, we pump them full of chemicals.

I don't deny that there are a few severe disorders out there that genuinely require the use of serious, mind-altering medications. Those disorders, though, are few and far between, and we throw pills at people at the first signs of trouble. I have been subject to this myself on multiple occasions.

Yep. As an LPC, most of the clients I see would benefit immensely from just talking to someone who can help them, but I'm telling you its the damn insurance companies that control the mental health industry. It's all about cost controls, and it's waaaaay to expensive to pay for time consuming therapy sessions when you can just write a prescription for some meds and kick them out the door. The generous health insurance policies cover just 5 (maybe 8) counseling sessions, then they expect a prescription to be written. This makes doing my job extremely difficult. Most people don't know this, but its actually a requirement for billing purposes that we assign a diagnosis to all our clients. Every single person that walks into my office leaves with some type of V-code attached to their file, or else I can't get paid for it. All because that's how health insurance companies gauge progress of the treatment, if we tack a name on whatever it is you're suffering from, then we can get paid to treat you. This takes the focus away from the person and places it squarely on the diagnosis and how I can ...

I'm curious, is there a simple code for grief or generic work stress? Sometimes people need to talk but it ain't systemic issue.