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It is not, in any way, worse then windows 7.
The UI takes some time getting used to, but once you are used to it, you like how everything is hidden and that you can go fullscreen on everything. The new "metro" UI does not offer any advantages over the Windows Desktop right now, although this might change once more programs adapt to it. The system also feels quite a bit more responsive, and I have not detected performance differences in games.

I don't regret upgrading, but neither do I feel fabalous about it.
I did get it for 12,50 euros though.

Go to http://www.windowsupgradeoffer.com/ and make up some crap about upgrading and you'll get it for £17. The only downer is having to have an asus or dell wallpaper on first boot but you can get rid of that. Is anyone really so tight they'd pirate a £17 OS? I'm a Linux enthusiast and even I see that as decent value.

Go to http://www.windowsupgradeoffer.com/ and make up some crap about upgrading and you'll get it for £17. The only downer is having to have an asus or dell wallpaper on first boot but you can get rid of that. Is anyone really so tight they'd pirate a £17 OS? I'm a Linux enthusiast and even I see that as decent value.

In fairness, lying on that form is the same as just pirating it

See also people who buy 'Academic Upgrades' they're nowhere-near entitled to (for software they don't have a copy to upgrade from) - they're assuaging their own guilt but it's still piracy :)

People defending win 8 are like poor people voting republican : Easily manipulated and stupid.

It's a bunch of FUD. There are no plans to enforce limits on x86 apps. Hell even the stupid SmartScreen option doesn't actually stop you installing apps, it just requires admin permission. Really, people need to stop making this stuff up. It isn't in Microsoft's best interests to limit x86 apps under Windows - it'd kill off the vast majority of their software library overnight. You could do it on OS X with its much smaller apps library, but never on Windows.

Also it's not "theoretical" that desktop apps are exempt from restrictions - it's a fact. There is no mandatory certification system. There never will be. Whether you like Win8 or not is irrelevant here - this is incorrect information and an attempt at crystal ball gazing which isn't based in reality.

I have just updated to Win8. I did it, just to do it. I was curious about it, so I plumped for it, I bought stronghold 3 so I ain't good with money :/

I have to say I really like it, I like the metro UI for the start menu, its a nice overview, with quick buttons to stuff I use all the time set up, it does take a bit of getting used to, and it is designed mainly for tablets and touch screens but it doesn't hurt me with a mouse. I use 2 screens and the corner activation thingy things take a little getting used to but then are very easy to get too, also if you hit winkey + c you get it, or winkey + i for app settings.

I upgraded straight from my install of Win7 and everything still works fine, my wacom tablet, all my games including the likes of Startopia. My steelseries Shift keyboard needed the software to be reinstalled to get it working properly, but wasn't a big hassle.

There are some negatives in that some things are more hidden away under the new interface, and it takes a bit of getting used to get around to them, but for most users that won't matter, the link to the internet is there, games over there, video over here and they don't go further than that. Also I can't get dishonored as a shortcut on my start screen, but can get Guild Wars 2, its awkward like that.

I have to say I LOVE the new search when it comes to programs in the menu, but it doesn't want to search shortcuts on the desktop and a few other things.

I haven't found anything that is fundamentally bad about Win8

The best way I would describe Win 8 is a different flavour of Win 7 like different types of milk, its slightly better in some regards but really comes down to a taste thing.

I upgraded and I can say that the interface-formerly-known-as-Metro does feel horribly tacked in. It's like navigating a smartphone but without the appropriate tools for the job (unless you do have a touchscreen and don't mind moving your hands constantly from the keyboard/mouse to the screen).

The whole thing becomes much more bearable after installing the Classic Shell and manually uninstalling all Metro apps. But then again, by that point what you're left with is a barely improved (but way uglier) Windows 7...

You'll also need to avoid the newer versions of Office and Visual Studio, because apparently the whole department responsible for user interfaces at Microsoft went on a vacation and left a trainee in charge - a trainee whose motto in life is "flat, monochromatic interfaces with so much white it'll burn your retina are THE FUTURE!!!".

I realise it's a long shot, but i don't suppose anyone has any spare win8 upgrade codes left? Seems the system needs a recent win7 code now, and I'm still on vista. Should have been quicker i guess. ;-)

I use it for college a lot on a fairly shitty laptop and it's pretty damn good tbh. I like some of the additions to it, guess what having your OS bring you straight to a download screen for products that handle a file format which you currently can't use is actually useful. As far as developing goes it's pretty damn easy and solutions WinRT offer for specific programming and design problems is a lot nicer then IOS or Android.

What that Croteam post outlines is really just the foundation of MS attempting to do what Apple are already doing and manipulate the platform entirely to their own advantage.

This sort of this has resulted in legal action and fines before (ironically aimed at MS) and I'm astonished Apple haven't been taken-to-task over their ridiculous 'closed garden' which is iOS. Their entirely 'we make it up as we feel like it' approach to what is and isn't permitted on iOS devices should never have been allowed - let alone left to the point where they control such a massive market without any regulation whatsoever.

MS clearly think "if they can do it - we can do it" and Win8 is a foot in that door - a big foot, wearing those boots goths wear with nails in them and a 5" platform - if you buy Win8, you're saying it's OK

What that Croteam post outlines is really just the foundation of MS attempting to do what Apple are already doing and manipulate the platform entirely to their own advantage.

This sort of this has resulted in legal action and fines before (ironically aimed at MS) and I'm astonished Apple haven't been taken-to-task over their ridiculous 'closed garden' which is iOS. Their entirely 'we make it up as we feel like it' approach to what is and isn't permitted on iOS devices should never have been allowed - let alone left to the point where they control such a massive market without any regulation whatsoever.

MS clearly think "if they can do it - we can do it" and Win8 is a foot in that door - a big foot, wearing those boots goths wear with nails in them and a 5" platform - if you buy Win8, you're saying it's OK

People bought Vista, yet by your logic that would of mean that Windows 7 would be complete drivel but it turned out to be their best OS to date.

People bought Vista, yet by your logic that would of mean that Windows 7 would be complete drivel but it turned out to be their best OS to date.

Which logical fallacy is it which allows you use to use a completely unrelated event to prove this one isn't going to be a problem again? Vista was crap - W7 was Vista with the problems ironed out - that does not mean that W8 is sinister but W9 will be W8 with the sinister ironed-out :)

Win8 is ENTIRELY about Surface Tablets and the Windows Store - which means it offers NOTHING to conventional PC owners (until they lock stuff into it - and they couldn't even be bothered to get Halo so it won't even be anything decent).

Furthermore, Surface/Windows Store will be run as with all previous MS initiatives in that they'll hammer it for a while until a few people are dependant on it and then forget it and let it die on the vine as they come-up with something else. You are crazy to buy into anything MS do - they're even killing MS Messenger (which is a shame because it's great for being that first thing you remove from a slow running pC!!)

What that Croteam post outlines is really just the foundation of MS attempting to do what Apple are already doing and manipulate the platform entirely to their own advantage.

Nonsense. Croteam are just spreading a bunch of lies. Every year or so someone comes out with some big fear that Microsoft are going to do X and it's going to screw you over, and it's been that way since Windows 95. It never happens. Trying to regulate the x86 software sector would be an exercise in futility, MS would just make the OS entirely useless overnight. Apple can do it because they already have an iron fist grasping the bulk of their major software developers, but that won't fly on Windows. Not by a long shot. MS chose the path of having an open platform back in the 90s while Apple chose control, it's too late to go back now.

Originally Posted by trjp

Vista was crap - W7 was Vista with the problems ironed out

Except it largely wasn't, because a major reason why Vista was crap was because driver devs apparently sat on their hands doing nothing in between when Vista was finalised and the public release, despite having something like 2 release candidates. Vista was a major overhaul, Win7 wasn't. If Win7 had have been Vista back in 2006, or if they'd waited, Win7 would have been vista.

Originally Posted by trjp

Win8 is ENTIRELY about Surface Tablets and the Windows Store - which means it offers NOTHING to conventional PC owners (until they lock stuff into it - and they couldn't even be bothered to get Halo so it won't even be anything decent).

While you might be twisting the truth or falling for FUD, at least this part of your posts is correct... well, in part. Win8 definitely is about the tablet interface as an attempt to unify the form factors. And you're right - apart from the numerous under the hood changes that offer improved performance etc, the tablet interface isn't a big drawcard for desktop systems for most people. That said, pretty much everyone I know either has icons strewn across the desktop, or just brings up the Start menu and types in what they want. Functionally, nothing's changed in that regard. The only really frustrating part is the Charms bar. But again the entire "locking things in" idea with x86 apps is nonsense, and since the Windows Store is supposed to be for WinRT apps (that also run on ARM platforms) there's still going to be a lot of software that they can't lock into WinRT (and by extension the Store) anyway.

Also it's kind of ironic that we're getting mad about locked stores etc when we actively demand one of the biggest in gaming gets every game ever and comes out with its own closed OS. Can you guess which one?

Originally Posted by trjp

they're even killing MS Messenger (which is a shame because it's great for being that first thing you remove from a slow running pC!!)

Nonsense. Croteam are just spreading a bunch of lies. Every year or so someone comes out with some big fear that Microsoft are going to do X and it's going to screw you over, and it's been that way since Windows 95. It never happens.

Except that it IS happening - you cannot get an app into the 'Metro' interface unless it's sold through MS's Store and certified by them - certification being the usual bullshit of "what we like we like and what we don't like, tough shit" (oh and it will cost money I'm sure).

Outside of that, programs in W8 have no easy way to make themselves available to people - the only alternative is to leave a shortcut on the desktop which is messy and nasty.

What part of "MS have gone to considerable lengths to retake control of what people can and can't have on their desktop' is hard to understand about that?

Except that it IS happening - you cannot get an app into the 'Metro' interface unless it's sold through MS's Store and certified by them - certification being the usual bullshit of "what we like we like and what we don't like, tough shit" (oh and it will cost money I'm sure).

Modern UI apps are supposed to be WinRT apps, not x86. There's nothing designed to impair the desktop at all. This walled garden approach is no different to iOS or the Google Play store... and side-loading of Modern UI apps is possible on x86 systems. Google Chrome for example can install a Modern UI version which doesn't appear on the Store (or didn't used to, "GetYourGoogleBack" isn't actually Chrome). I think Firefox can as well, haven't tested it. These are x86 only apps though.

Originally Posted by trjp

Outside of that, programs in W8 have no easy way to make themselves available to people - the only alternative is to leave a shortcut on the desktop which is messy and nasty.

Except the Start Screen, and the Task Bar. And how is that different to Windows 7? The Start Menu was becoming a mess. Most people either pinned things, put them on their desktop, or searched for it from the Start Menu. Otherwise you'd wade through a bunch of pointless folders to find one thing.

Originally Posted by trjp

What part of "MS have gone to considerable lengths to retake control of what people can and can't have on their desktop' is hard to understand about that?

Because it's not in their best interests. Trying to regulate the x86 app sector would kill Windows. It's a popular platform because it has the most software. Requiring certification for all apps would crush legacy app support overnight, and nobody would use Windows. Microsoft fully understand that. Market dominance is far more important than any comparatively small gains they'd get from forcing x86 apps to go through certification. Different story for Apple, where they'll never get desktop market dominance (at least at the rate they're going), thus with their comparatively smaller app sector they can afford to try to regulate their app sector. Even then Apple haven't managed it entirely, and it's uncertain whether it'll work out for them or not.

The entire "Microsoft want to own everything!" argument may have held some sway in the 90s, but the world has changed dramatically since then. Microsoft won't be able to lock down the x86 app sector. Croteam and friends are brewing a storm in a teacup, presuming that because WinRT apps go through the store that all apps will go through the store. But it's just a paranoid conspiracy. Nobody can demonstrate that Microsoft intend to do that, and it directly goes against their most important asset - owning the desktop market.

Stepping away from a head-to-head argument - I still think Microsoft is attempting to "do an Apple" and build it's own, proprietary appstore and that it will do it's level best to make that AppStore as 'in your face' and unavoidable for X86 desktop owners, as it undoubtedly will for Surface owners (as they are, in effect, using the same interface despite having radically different platforms and input systems)

The only reason I don't think this will be a wholly bad thing is not any reassurance from MS but the historic evidence that MS never do anything properly - they go at it 'great guns', they talk loudly and then they quietly move on and leave everything to rot and die (see GFWL, Zune, earlier Windows Mobile platforms and most everything else except, for some reason, Office which SHOULD have died a long time ago!) :)

Surface tablets will be doorstops in 2 years -if they take-off at all - where does that leave us I wonder?

I just don't like the idea that the desktop I or my users are using has been perverted for the sake of trying to compete with Apple when

a - MS have no chance of doing that
b - even if they did manage it, Google would undermine them anyway

ANYway - as an RPS game playing PC owner, I see no reason whatsoever to upgrade to W8 - but you might want to take their hand off at the desperate "please please buy me" price it's at now and use the disc as a coaster for a few months :)