Emory (my undergrad) is an excellent institution and certainly not overrated. The most studious undergrads usually go to medical school. At a place like Emory, where many students expect to go on to graduate school, students will often times take the LSAT as a backup in case they can't think of anything better to do. This is what I did the first time I took the LSAT. Consequently, my first LSAT was only one point away from my college's average. After being in the workforce for year I realized that going to law school was what I really wanted to do. I retook the exam scored nine points higher and will be attending a T-14. Main point: average LSAT score is an unrepresentative sample of overall undergraduate student body intelligence. Emory and WUSTL are likely similar in this respect.

BeastCoastHype wrote:If anything I think that these data reflect the fact that US News isn't the best proxy for judging the intelligence of the undergrad population. A lot of extra nonsense gets factored into those rankings (alumni giving, retention after freshman year etc.) that doesn't have anything to do with how selective the school is. Many schools with lower acceptance rates and equivalent or higher SAT ranges are beneath schools that admit up to 50% of applicants because they lose out in these other categories.

Redwyng4 wrote:I don't think you can necessarily draw the conclusions you are drawing based on a schools median LSAT. Let me preface this by saying that I don't attend any of these schools. WUSTL is known for its sciences and pre-med program for undergrad. While they may have a good number of students that take the LSAT, they may not be an accurate representation of the schools undergraduate population.

And Georgia Tech is an engineering school...

Come on, ray, that doesn't discredit his point.

WUSTL UG is ridiculously hard to get into, and its average SAT scores are fantastic. I don't know why they don't quite correlate with LSAT, but I definitely wouldn't say the institution is overrated because of that fact alone.

He's arguing that the people at WUSTL taking the LSAT are not representative of the school's overall population, because WUSTL has a focus on sciences/medicine. I gave an example of a school that has if anything a far more narrow focus, and yet its LSAT score is still commensurate with its overall rank.

WUSTL's average LSAT is clearly anomalous. You can see the top state schools (Michigan, UVA, Tech, etc) all clustered around 157-158. You can see Duke/Georgetown/Rice clustered around 161-163. WUSTL is ranked above the latter but has scores in the former band.

RAYINER, this is a blatant slap in the face. Duke is 8th nationally, buddy. Yeah, I take exception.

TheLaw wrote:Emory (my undergrad) is an excellent institution and certainly not overrated. The most studious undergrads usually go to medical school. At a place like Emory, where many students expect to go on to graduate school, students will often times take the LSAT as a backup in case they can't think of anything better to do. This is what I did the first time I took the LSAT. Consequently, my first LSAT was only one point away from my college's average. After being in the workforce for year I realized that going to law school was what I really wanted to do. I retook the exam scored nine points higher and will be attending a T-14. Main point: average LSAT score is an unrepresentative sample of overall undergraduate student body intelligence. Emory and WUSTL are likely similar in this respect.

I don't see what your point is. That could be applied to every UG school. A ton of people at every school take the LSAT unprepped. I know several people who scored in the high 150s because they didn't know that you could improve at all on the LSAT. These people could have gotten 168+ and be T14-bound had they known better. But I'm sure this is the case at every school.

Esc wrote:I won't out myself completely on here, but it was a small public university in Texas. I went there for scholarship, low tuition, and relaxed atmosphere, not for its academic quality. To be fair, though, the science program I was in was pretty good (but none of the other people in it were going to law school). I can't say the same for all the Poli Sci and English majors there who figured that they were going to get into UTexas with a 2.8 GPA....

Only 1 percent scored higher than 95th percentile, but since only 117 were on record as taking the LSAT, that extrapolates to 1 However, you did beat me. Only 42% of the people at my UG scored in the 0-19th percentile

I, too, have contempt for my UG. A lot of the professors and a good many of my classmates were really cool, but the administration....not so much.

Oh, and almost everyone at my UG failed the MCAT as well.

Sounds suspiciously close to my experience. My professors were pretty great, IMO, and some of my classmates were fun to hang out with but I definitely wouldn't consider them too bright. And administration was truly awful - I think that tends to be the common thread for toilet institutions in general. I despised our Dean of Students.

Commiseration. I had a bit of a vendetta with the Dean of Student Affairs, as I was the one Student Gov member who wasn't licking ass and rubber-stamping whatever the admin wanted. My only regret is that I was too dedicated to maintaining a 4.0 and working to be more of a pain in the Dean's ass.

Marko Ramius wrote:RAYINER, this is a blatant slap in the face. Duke is 8th nationally, buddy. Yeah, I take exception.

Why, sir, you have insulted my honor! If I had a white glove I would slap you in the face with it and spit on your shoes! How dare you suggest that my school is ranked 12th instead of 8th! This is the lowest, most contemptible insult I have ever seen! I expect a letter of apology written in cursive, or we shall meet with pistols at dawn.

Last edited by BeastCoastHype on Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dresden doll wrote:I generally have contempt for people that take LSAT unprepared. That's just ridiculous. Why would anyone even think of doing that?

+1 This annoys the crap out of me, especially people who don't study .. take it .. and then complain about their low scores. Like they thought everyone else who wasted time and money studying and prepping were all a bunch of half wits! WTF?

dresden doll wrote:I generally have contempt for people that take LSAT unprepared. That's just ridiculous. Why would anyone even think of doing that?

+1 This annoys the crap out of me, especially people who don't study .. take it .. and then complain about their low scores. Like they thought everyone else who wasted time and money studying and prepping were all a bunch of half wits! WTF?

Sadly I had a friend take the LSAT with no prep. She beat me by 7 points

dresden doll wrote:I generally have contempt for people that take LSAT unprepared. That's just ridiculous. Why would anyone even think of doing that?

+1 This annoys the crap out of me, especially people who don't study .. take it .. and then complain about their low scores. Like they thought everyone else who wasted time and money studying and prepping were all a bunch of half wits! WTF?

Sadly I had a friend take the LSAT with no prep. She beat me by 7 points

dresden doll wrote:Sounds suspiciously close to my experience. My professors were pretty great, IMO, and some of my classmates were fun to hang out with but I definitely wouldn't consider them too bright. And administration was truly awful - I think that tends to be the common thread for toilet institutions in general. I despised our Dean of Students.

Commiseration. I had a bit of a vendetta with the Dean of Student Affairs, as I was the one Student Gov member who wasn't licking ass and rubber-stamping whatever the admin wanted. My only regret is that I was too dedicated to maintaining a 4.0 and working to be more of a pain in the Dean's ass.

I was in Student Gov too and dealing with administration was an incredibly frustrating task. I gave up after the first semester of my junior year (I also founded Amnesty International campus chapter around that time, so I decided I'd rather dedicate myself to a more gratifying project.)

I totally have a personal vendetta against my Dean of Students. She made me undergo all these testings back in a day to ensure that I wasn't anorexic. I am not going to get into how it came about, but suffice it to say that I've despised her ever since.

And I won't even get into dorms Residence Life - the Assistant Director was a true bitch.

Marko Ramius wrote:RAYINER, this is a blatant slap in the face. Duke is 8th nationally, buddy. Yeah, I take exception.

Why, sir, you have insulted my honor! If I had a white glove I would slap you in the face with it and spit on your shoes! How dare you suggest that my school is ranked 12th instead of 8th! This is the lowest, most contemptible insult I have ever seen! I expect a letter of apology written in cursive, or we shall meet with pistols at dawn.

I will meet you with an enema at dawn. You will prostrate yourself on the ground. My tube will enter you. Fluid will make you feel tingly inside. You will pay $5.50 for service. I will pay for my lunch with your money.

dresden doll wrote:Sounds suspiciously close to my experience. My professors were pretty great, IMO, and some of my classmates were fun to hang out with but I definitely wouldn't consider them too bright. And administration was truly awful - I think that tends to be the common thread for toilet institutions in general. I despised our Dean of Students.

Commiseration. I had a bit of a vendetta with the Dean of Student Affairs, as I was the one Student Gov member who wasn't licking ass and rubber-stamping whatever the admin wanted. My only regret is that I was too dedicated to maintaining a 4.0 and working to be more of a pain in the Dean's ass.

I was in Student Gov too and dealing with administration was an incredibly frustrating task. I gave up after the first semester of my junior year (I also founded Amnesty International campus chapter around that time, so I decided I'd rather dedicate myself to a more gratifying project.)

I totally have a personal vendetta against my Dean of Students. She made me undergo all these testings back in a day to ensure that I wasn't anorexic. I am not going to get into how it came about, but suffice it to say that I've despised her ever since.

And I won't even get into dorms Residence Life - the Assistant Director was a true bitch.

WTF Not to delve into the specifics of your personal story, but how could a school official require that? Without clear evidence of suicidal or violent tendencies, aren't school administration prohibited from pulling shit like this? Am I right to guess that they made up some "evidence" for purposes of retribution?

Marko Ramius wrote:RAYINER, this is a blatant slap in the face. Duke is 8th nationally, buddy. Yeah, I take exception.

Why, sir, you have insulted my honor! If I had a white glove I would slap you in the face with it and spit on your shoes! How dare you suggest that my school is ranked 12th instead of 8th! This is the lowest, most contemptible insult I have ever seen! I expect a letter of apology written in cursive, or we shall meet with pistols at dawn.

I will meet you with an enema at dawn. You will prostrate yourself on the ground. My tube will enter you. Fluid will make you feel tingly inside. You will pay $5.50 for service. I will pay for my lunch with your money.

Ha! Yes, a classically vulgar move, to be expected from a lowly Duke scoundrel. I believe that an image of General Sherman doing this to a woman from Georgia is at the center of the university's crest, as this ritual remains the cornerstone of a Duke education. Each freshman has one administered by the university president upon arrival at campus, an experience that permanently engraves the infamous "Duke sneer" upon each little face. I will have no part in such foul play, sir, as gentlemen of New York prefer the "cheap shot" precedent set by Aaron Burr with his pistols. You can learn about this hilarious tradition here: