wolf whistle!!!

so let me get this stright, your opinion is that people shouldn't say something if they think it will be offensive to someone else?

That works for me.

doesn't for me. People die for the right to say what they like

Have to agree with you on this, I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it, people in other countries, especially women don't have the same right to the freedom of speech so we should be grateful that we are able to speak our minds .

so let me get this stright, your opinion is that people shouldn't say something if they think it will be offensive to someone else?

That works for me.

doesn't for me. People die for the right to say what they like

Have to agree with you on this, I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it, people in other countries, especially women don't have the same right to the freedom of speech so we should be grateful that we are able to speak our minds .

xGGx

Yes but it's common decency to not willingly offend someone especially when it's uncalled for.

so let me get this stright, your opinion is that people shouldn't say something if they think it will be offensive to someone else?

That works for me.

doesn't for me. People die for the right to say what they like

Have to agree with you on this, I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it, people in other countries, especially women don't have the same right to the freedom of speech so we should be grateful that we are able to speak our minds .

xGGx

Yes but it's common decency to not willingly offend someone especially when it's uncalled for.

This.

Having the right to free speech does not entitle you to say what ever you like.

I assume the point in free speech is to further freedom, benefit people what ever... If 'free speech' goes past that line and becomes nothing but offensive it is counter productive.

Personally I live by the very clever Pagan rede (even if you're not religious, you have to think it's good):

"An ye harm none, do what ye will".

Basically do/say what you want, as long as you're not causing harm to anyone.

I don't mind personally beeping and whistling if it's not in a teasing way. Sometimes I'm walking along the road and a car full of men hold down the horn and shout out the window. A little "Wheeeew" is different. If you're coming onto a girl you don't know (or a guy, can work both ways) without knowing how they'll take it, you're making a potentially harmful comment.

You have no reason to be doing so other than to fulfil your selfish needs or impress your mates. It's slightly different to standing up for what you believe in.

There is a difference between deliberately saying something which you know will offend and saying something which you dont find offensive but someone else does. We all have our own bounderies and it is easy for someone to cross them without realising.

I am not saying that offending someone is right but the right to freedom of speech is something that people died for and in some parts of the world they are still dying for. I may not agree with something you say but I will defend your right to say it regardless of how offensive I find it.

Using that right to intimidate someone is a different issue, as a woman I have been in the position of being scared while out on my own due to inbred morons who think that it is acceptable to intimidate women, usually when with their friends.

There is a difference between deliberately saying something which you know will offend and saying something which you dont find offensive but someone else does. We all have our own bounderies and it is easy for someone to cross them without realising.

I am not saying that offending someone is right but the right to freedom of speech is something that people died for and in some parts of the world they are still dying for. I may not agree with something you say but I will defend your right to say it regardless of how offensive I find it.

Using that right to intimidate someone is a different issue, as a woman I have been in the position of being scared while out on my own due to inbred morons who think that it is acceptable to intimidate women, usually when with their friends.

xGGx

I think this is what most people are getting at. Offence is not the deciding factor but it is something we do and should consider before we say something potentially reckless.

so let me get this stright, your opinion is that people shouldn't say something if they think it will be offensive to someone else?

That works for me.

doesn't for me. People die for the right to say what they like

Have to agree with you on this, I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it, people in other countries, especially women don't have the same right to the freedom of speech so we should be grateful that we are able to speak our minds .

xGGx

Yes but it's common decency to not willingly offend someone especially when it's uncalled for.

This.

Having the right to free speech does not entitle you to say what ever you like.

I assume the point in free speech is to further freedom, benefit people what ever... If 'free speech' goes past that line and becomes nothing but offensive it is counter productive.

Are you for real?

Freedom of speach is exactly that, you are free to say what you want. The point of it is to have freedom, and then its up to the individual to decided how to use it. So what if some people use it to be insulting, rather that than have the govenment shoot you for daring to speak out. I'm sure i dont need to remind anyone that the current situation in the arab world is proof of this.

Freedom of speach needs neither to be productive or counter productive but the great thing is, it doesn't matter if its either.

Whenever I get honked at or someone makes a comment, I always assume I have something on my face or stuck to my shoe or have something on me that's embarrassing...

Or it's just good old-fashioned sarcasm.

Either way, I don't like it, haha. Especially when walking alone at night - men who aren't seeking to intimidate should just leave girls alone when it's dark.

Other than that, they're just having a laugh. If it's at my expense then sod 'em, I'm never going to see them again. Makes no difference to my day. If someone calls me fat or something in passing though, I'll be thinking about it for the rest of the year... (Doesn't happen a lot, thankfully).

so let me get this stright, your opinion is that people shouldn't say something if they think it will be offensive to someone else?

That works for me.

doesn't for me. People die for the right to say what they like

Have to agree with you on this, I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it, people in other countries, especially women don't have the same right to the freedom of speech so we should be grateful that we are able to speak our minds .

xGGx

Yes but it's common decency to not willingly offend someone especially when it's uncalled for.

This.

Having the right to free speech does not entitle you to say what ever you like.

I assume the point in free speech is to further freedom, benefit people what ever... If 'free speech' goes past that line and becomes nothing but offensive it is counter productive.

Are you for real?

Freedom of speach is exactly that, you are free to say what you want. The point of it is to have freedom, and then its up to the individual to decided how to use it. So what if some people use it to be insulting, rather that than have the govenment shoot you for daring to speak out. I'm sure i dont need to remind anyone that the current situation in the arab world is proof of this.

Freedom of speach needs neither to be productive or counter productive but the great thing is, it doesn't matter if its either.

If freedom of speech is counter-productive then surely it becomes oppresive? I agree that freedom of speech is freedom to say what you want, but it requires a degree of intellect to put it into practise.

Freedom of speach is exactly that, you are free to say what you want. The point of it is to have freedom, and then its up to the individual to decided how to use it. So what if some people use it to be insulting, rather that than have the govenment shoot you for daring to speak out. I'm sure i dont need to remind anyone that the current situation in the arab world is proof of this.

Freedom of speach needs neither to be productive or counter productive but the great thing is, it doesn't matter if its either.

I certainly am for real.

In my opinion it certainly does matter if it is productive. If we allow libellous, racist, sexist, homophobic language to be completely free then you end up in a really crap position. I wonder if you agree with the sentencing of a few Muslim men who were recently convicted of whatever for picketing soldiers funerals and shouting 'British murdering scum'. Freedom to hate does not trump the rights of others.

There is a fine line between freedom of speech and censorship. Unadulterated 'freedom' is just as bad as limiting it.

Freedom of speach is exactly that, you are free to say what you want. The point of it is to have freedom, and then its up to the individual to decided how to use it. So what if some people use it to be insulting, rather that than have the govenment shoot you for daring to speak out. I'm sure i dont need to remind anyone that the current situation in the arab world is proof of this.

Freedom of speach needs neither to be productive or counter productive but the great thing is, it doesn't matter if its either.

I certainly am for real.

In my opinion it certainly does matter if it is productive. If we allow libellous, racist, sexist, homophobic language to be completely free then you end up in a really crap position. I wonder if you agree with the sentencing of a few Muslim men who were recently convicted of whatever for picketing soldiers funerals and shouting 'British murdering scum'. Freedom to hate does not trump the rights of others.

There is a fine line between freedom of speech and censorship. Unadulterated 'freedom' is just as bad as limiting it.

see while i disagree with what those men did, i feel that they should be allowed to. (although if i rember correctly they did make death threats)

Thats where the USA are better than us. As long as you dont directly threaten someone then you can say what you like, example: All (insert hated groupe, race, type here) are worthless. They should be allowed to say that even though the vast majority disagree.

I mean I thought that we were ment to be accepting, so that means accpeting those who want to be accepted and those that doen't. (eg homosexuals and homophibicas)

see while i disagree with what those men did, i feel that they should be allowed to. (although if i rember correctly they did make death threats)

Thats where the USA are better than us. As long as you dont directly threaten someone then you can say what you like, example: All (insert hated groupe, race, type here) are worthless. They should be allowed to say that even though the vast majority disagree.

I mean I thought that we were ment to be accepting, so that means accpeting those who want to be accepted and those that doen't. (eg homosexuals and homophibicas)

The point in free speech is to reach some position you think is better than a position in which you don't have it. Free speech aims at some good. If free speech stops being productive then it is a failed cause.

Most people agree freespeech and some limits are good, they just disagree where those limits lie.

I loved being wolf whistled at but somebody shouting something objectifying me rather than complimenting me is likely to get a mouthful of abuse back as I can take a compliment but I also know the difference and don't put up with rude behaviour from anybody

Maybe, but you can't say "right you have the freedom to say what you like expect X Y and Z" because then its not truly free.

Erm the law says exactly that. Freedom of speech in so far as it doesn't infringe other people's wellbeing etc, like if it 'incites racial or religious hatred', or if you publish an article saying someone's a paedophile. Rights have to be balanced or society is just not civilised. In this case the rights of someone to shout whatever they like at a stranger should be balanced with the stranger's right to walk freely in public without being verbally assaulted and sexually degraded.

Veering back onto topic... I really just... don't see the point. What does getting my attention even achieve? I'm hardly going to leap onto your car bonnet and demand you take me there and then... I'm not even going feel positively about the beeper/heckler/whatever. And it'd simply be tragic if my self-esteem were so dismally low as to be boosted by some unknown van driver deeming me worthy of a beep of their horn.

What is unquestioningly unacceptable, however, are the kind of heckles that straight out embarrass you.

The absolute WORST EVER IMAGINABLE example of this happened to me... I was in the car with my mum when someone shouted, obviously directed at her, "I wanna fuck yer daughter!!"

And to make matters worse, my mother yelled back, and I quote, "CHARMING! Think I want YOU for a son-in-law???". Hahahh.

Veering back onto topic... I really just... don't see the point. What does getting my attention even achieve? I'm hardly going to leap onto your car bonnet and demand you take me there and then... I'm not even going feel positively about the beeper/heckler/whatever. And it'd simply be tragic if my self-esteem were so dismally low as to be boosted by some unknown van driver deeming me worthy of a beep of their horn.

What is unquestioningly unacceptable, however, are the kind of heckles that straight out embarrass you.

The absolute WORST EVER IMAGINABLE example of this happened to me... I was in the car with my mum when someone shouted, obviously directed at her, "I wanna fuck yer daughter!!"

And to make matters worse, my mother yelled back, and I quote, "CHARMING! Think I want YOU for a son-in-law???". Hahahh.

I HATE it, scares the daylights out of me when I'm yelled at spontaneously by strangers. if it happens more than a couple of times per journey, you tend to spend the whole of it in an accentuated state of anxiety. Not nice. I don't go anywhere without headphones these days, I don't want to hear it.

I agree with this, headphone and very load music gets me through most of it, though also I personally perfer my music to the noise of the cars anyway.

After reading bak through the thread I feel there are a few other things I should point out. I personally find that comments or beeping of a car and actually cause me to have a panic attack at time's, I have a lot of bad health issues which can cause panic to be set off easily but also it is dangerous for anyone to be startled. If you are out and about n a normal day and someone shouts something or whistles at you and you accept it, generally the person would have went out dresswed and feeling as if they want to be noticed. My self esteem isn't really that high so really these things do more damage to me than they should. Doug I have tried to toughen up but everytime I think I'll brave that big old world it doesn't always go the same way it will for others.

In the pppast I've had comments like this happen to me and in all honesty it makes me want to hide from it all. I'm never on the prowl and I'm very picky on the men I do get close with, I have terms that really annoy me, a stranger will not know this but really should try and keep these things in mind.

Yes it's great to have freedom of speach but really you have to consider other people, you don't need to know everything about someone to tell that they would be put off by these comment, body language can be enough to give hints at times. Saddly there are even rules for freedom of speach, it's called consideration and respect.

Also I'd like to point out that I am often put off and easily scared when the same thing happened within online communities.