sorry, daytona... but a pole position is a pole position... not testing. There are financial rewards and benefits from pole positions, there are sponsor recognition in pole positions, and there is the advantage of being ahead of the crowd for lap one. No, it is not like F1 where so much havoc often happens in turn one, and yes, it is likely that the pole sitter will not lead start to finish as we sometimes see in F1... but still it is important. I am sure that every other team and driver would LOVE to be on pole and not likely to agree with your straight line testing theory.

There's clearly a financial gain to be had from pole position, and it is clearly important at some of NASCAR's smaller tracks like Bristol and Martinsville.

But at the Daytona 500? I'd hate to qualify on pole, it seems like a major disadvantage more than anything. It's very difficult to get your car setup to run well in both clear air and the draft. No polesitter has won since 2000 IIRC.

The major disadvantage, though, is how easy it is to lose pole position - If you get caught up in any kind of wreck that forces you to switch to a backup car, you have to start from the back. And with several days of practice, as well as the Duels, all of which occur in packs, it's pretty easy to have a crash. So if you're a pole sitter, you can risk your car and your pole, or you can simply not bother practicing in the draft. Unless you're lucky, you're likely to be heading into race day in bad shape.

_________________I don't follow F1 so I don't know what I'm talking about

It will give her as much extra chance of winning as Button gains from advertising shampoo I guess.....

If she's fast enough she's fast enough. If she isn't then she isn't. An advertising campaign doesn't make you a faster or a slower driver no matter what sex you are.

Laura, you're right. It will be interesting to see how she goes this year in her first full season in the top tier of NASCAR. However, forgetting the photos above, NASCAR has been using her to promote themselves as being female friendly hoping to get more females watching NASCAR plus, when she first got to NASCAR, I didn't think that she had achieved enough in Indy Car to get a ride over other drivers that had been more successful. Personally, I find that insulting. In this day & age where females are only too ready to protest about not being treated the same of males, I think the same goes for motor racing. If you are good enough, regardless of being male or female, you should be able to progress upwards. I know, it's never that simple but I still think that's the way it should be. Mind you, I wouldn't complain if my favourite NASCAR driver, Jeff Gordon, posed in the same way although he may look a little ridiculous in a bikini or high heels

Sometimes it seems as though people seek to find reasons to down grade Patrick. The most frequent two are: 1.) She has used her looks to get rides that she wouldn't have gotten otherwise, and 2.) She has only won one race despite being in decent machinery. And there is truth to both of these arguments.

However, I think we tend to forget two things also... how difficult it is get good rides, and the fact that it is MUCH more difficult for a woman to do so in male-dominated auto racing.... and...that winning races is always tough to do, good rides or not. I have seen so very many put Patrick down (even more than in this forum) in some very cruel, sexist, and ignorant ways. Understand that even if her looks have helped her grow her career, this is a driver who was good enough to get this far in the sport... no amount of good looks could overcome no talent at all. Patrick came within a couple of laps of winning the Indy 500... after nearly 500 miles of driving at speeds well over 200 mph. People with no talent do not do that... regardless of gender. Just as drivers with no talent do not qualify on the Daytona 500 pole, wrestling around a 3400 pound car... a crude car according to most on the forum here.

Is she going to win the race? I doubt it. I would take the field against ANY one driver, on or off the pole, the odds are just too great to bet against the field. As has been pointed out, the race is seldom won by the pole position. However, we accept that with most drivers (ie male), and somehow we all know that if Patrick does not win, some will be saying "I told you so, she just can't cut it".

As for the use of her looks to promote herself, I say why not? As several have pointed out, many male drivers have done the same thing, some even in sexy poses. Is it fair to hold her to a different standard? We have seen many beautiful women in a multitude of careers do sexy photo shoots, and most of us do indeed look at the pics... yet, we hold that against Patrick? I think there is a double standard being applied often, and often there is a "male superiority" factor not being able to accept the idea of a woman being competitive in top levels of racing disciplines.

Patrick is not perfect, nor is she the equal of the top racing drivers in NASCAR on the track... yet. She can be tempermental and is certainly willing to confront others when she feels she is being wronged, on or off the track. That does not sit well with some of her fellow drivers, but then, it did not sit well when Montoya or Keselowski also gave it back when it pushed as they learned the "ropes" of NASCAR racing either.

I wish her luck, if she should win, it would be great for her, her team, and greater still for the sport of auto racing, not just NASCAR. As was said before, NASCAR, like IRL before, has also used Patrick greatly to their benefit. There is a reason why Danica Patrick is the name on the tongues of so many racing fans instead of some of the other female drivers who are in the sport.... the woman CAN drive...AND looks good.

If you've got it, flaunt it. Every F1 driver that appears in an ad does the same. You can bet Jenson isn't doing Head and Shoulders because he's got great hair but also because he's the MILFs favourite.

Not quite, we've not seen (m)any draped across a car in their underwear.

If you've got it, flaunt it. Every F1 driver that appears in an ad does the same. You can bet Jenson isn't doing Head and Shoulders because he's got great hair but also because he's the MILFs favourite.

Not quite, we've not seen (m)any draped across a car in their underwear.

Ill agree with race winners who agree with me. Like tiny Stewart who used to not even go to Daytona testing for single car runs because he says anyone can do it. Dale jr always says its boring. Sure you get money and a pretty award and as a driver sure it would be cool to have. But it really doesn't mean anything at these places. You'll be going back and forth for 500 miles.

The bolded bit made me laugh so hard my boss came into my office to see what was so funny. I know it's probably a typo but the one thing you wouldn't call Tony Stewart is tiny

HAHA that's def a typo. But I may just start referring to him as Tiny now. LOL

Sometimes it seems as though people seek to find reasons to down grade Patrick. The most frequent two are: 1.) She has used her looks to get rides that she wouldn't have gotten otherwise, and 2.) She has only won one race despite being in decent machinery. And there is truth to both of these arguments.

However, I think we tend to forget two things also... how difficult it is get good rides, and the fact that it is MUCH more difficult for a woman to do so in male-dominated auto racing.... and...that winning races is always tough to do, good rides or not. I have seen so very many put Patrick down (even more than in this forum) in some very cruel, sexist, and ignorant ways. Understand that even if her looks have helped her grow her career, this is a driver who was good enough to get this far in the sport... no amount of good looks could overcome no talent at all. Patrick came within a couple of laps of winning the Indy 500... after nearly 500 miles of driving at speeds well over 200 mph. People with no talent do not do that... regardless of gender. Just as drivers with no talent do not qualify on the Daytona 500 pole, wrestling around a 3400 pound car... a crude car according to most on the forum here.

Is she going to win the race? I doubt it. I would take the field against ANY one driver, on or off the pole, the odds are just too great to bet against the field. As has been pointed out, the race is seldom won by the pole position. However, we accept that with most drivers (ie male), and somehow we all know that if Patrick does not win, some will be saying "I told you so, she just can't cut it".

As for the use of her looks to promote herself, I say why not? As several have pointed out, many male drivers have done the same thing, some even in sexy poses. Is it fair to hold her to a different standard? We have seen many beautiful women in a multitude of careers do sexy photo shoots, and most of us do indeed look at the pics... yet, we hold that against Patrick? I think there is a double standard being applied often, and often there is a "male superiority" factor not being able to accept the idea of a woman being competitive in top levels of racing disciplines.

Patrick is not perfect, nor is she the equal of the top racing drivers in NASCAR on the track... yet. She can be tempermental and is certainly willing to confront others when she feels she is being wronged, on or off the track. That does not sit well with some of her fellow drivers, but then, it did not sit well when Montoya or Keselowski also gave it back when it pushed as they learned the "ropes" of NASCAR racing either.

I wish her luck, if she should win, it would be great for her, her team, and greater still for the sport of auto racing, not just NASCAR. As was said before, NASCAR, like IRL before, has also used Patrick greatly to their benefit. There is a reason why Danica Patrick is the name on the tongues of so many racing fans instead of some of the other female drivers who are in the sport.... the woman CAN drive...AND looks good.

Ill agree with race winners who agree with me. Like tiny Stewart who used to not even go to Daytona testing for single car runs because he says anyone can do it. Dale jr always says its boring. Sure you get money and a pretty award and as a driver sure it would be cool to have. But it really doesn't mean anything at these places. You'll be going back and forth for 500 miles.

I understand what you are saying, but the fact remains that most if not ALL drivers would love to have the pole.

Another factor is that you are locked in on the front row, only 2 cars are... the rest have to race for their starting position in one of the two 125 mile races.... where an error can put you back in the pack or even heading home before the race. You cannot discount the value in a secure position in the race.

I am simply discounting the talent it takes on a drivers part to gain a pole position at these two tracks I've mentioned. There is no doubt there are some advantage to having the pole for this specific race such as being locked in unless you crash in the qualifying races, and even the money. But when it comes to the actual race is see almost(most of the time) a disadvantage. As another forumer mentioned, it is very hard to get a car to be fast in traffic and in clean air. The fast cars usually qualify within the pack. That's not to say she won't have a decent finish though. I just believe people make way to much fuss about pole at Daytona and make way to much fuss about DP as she hasn't really proven herselfagainst the best any more than someone like Scott speed has in NASCAR. And she has better equipment than he did. Wow I typed a lot didnt I?

Danica wasn't that well known until she did a spread on FHM magazine in April 2003. Suddenly her profile and public awareness took off. She did Formula Atlantic in 2003 and 2004 then went to IRL in 2005. Publicity is the name of the game, and she is using it to further her career and also to use her voice for worthy causes. Danica is an inspiration for millions of young girls, and the celebrity spokesperson for Drive4COPD, an awareness campaign for chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, of which her grandmother died.

Qualifying on the pole at Daytona is huge, it generates lots of publicity, and as far as race tactics, she is guaranteed pole position no matter what happens on Thursday. Everyone else is racing for position or just to get into the show, while she can use it as a test session. She can set up her car for the Daytona 500 while everyone else is just thinking of doing well at the Budweiser Duel. She can try things and be aggressive because even if she wrecks her car, I'm certain her backup car is just as good.

On qualifying speeds the Stewart Hass cars were 1st, 4th, and 5th. That team have very fast and slippery cars.

It is important. That is why we are talking about it on a F1 forum. NASCAR is the fastest stock car series in the world capable of averaging over 320 kph over a lap. It is a lot different than F1--needing different skills and mindset. Michael Schumacher would not drive a NASCAR car in a race at Daytona or Telladaga and if he did he would not be competitive. Use Juan Pablo Montoya as a measure of NASCAR. He has won in everything else, including on ovals in Indycars, but he has yet to win a NASCAR oval race. NASCAR and F1 cannot be compared in any way except that each is the premier event in their category.

Sometimes it seems as though people seek to find reasons to down grade Patrick. The most frequent two are: 1.) She has used her looks to get rides that she wouldn't have gotten otherwise, and 2.) She has only won one race despite being in decent machinery. And there is truth to both of these arguments.

However, I think we tend to forget two things also... how difficult it is get good rides, and the fact that it is MUCH more difficult for a woman to do so in male-dominated auto racing.... and...that winning races is always tough to do, good rides or not. I have seen so very many put Patrick down (even more than in this forum) in some very cruel, sexist, and ignorant ways. Understand that even if her looks have helped her grow her career, this is a driver who was good enough to get this far in the sport... no amount of good looks could overcome no talent at all. Patrick came within a couple of laps of winning the Indy 500... after nearly 500 miles of driving at speeds well over 200 mph. People with no talent do not do that... regardless of gender. Just as drivers with no talent do not qualify on the Daytona 500 pole, wrestling around a 3400 pound car... a crude car according to most on the forum here.

Is she going to win the race? I doubt it. I would take the field against ANY one driver, on or off the pole, the odds are just too great to bet against the field. As has been pointed out, the race is seldom won by the pole position. However, we accept that with most drivers (ie male), and somehow we all know that if Patrick does not win, some will be saying "I told you so, she just can't cut it".

As for the use of her looks to promote herself, I say why not? As several have pointed out, many male drivers have done the same thing, some even in sexy poses. Is it fair to hold her to a different standard? We have seen many beautiful women in a multitude of careers do sexy photo shoots, and most of us do indeed look at the pics... yet, we hold that against Patrick? I think there is a double standard being applied often, and often there is a "male superiority" factor not being able to accept the idea of a woman being competitive in top levels of racing disciplines.

Patrick is not perfect, nor is she the equal of the top racing drivers in NASCAR on the track... yet. She can be tempermental and is certainly willing to confront others when she feels she is being wronged, on or off the track. That does not sit well with some of her fellow drivers, but then, it did not sit well when Montoya or Keselowski also gave it back when it pushed as they learned the "ropes" of NASCAR racing either.

I wish her luck, if she should win, it would be great for her, her team, and greater still for the sport of auto racing, not just NASCAR. As was said before, NASCAR, like IRL before, has also used Patrick greatly to their benefit. There is a reason why Danica Patrick is the name on the tongues of so many racing fans instead of some of the other female drivers who are in the sport.... the woman CAN drive...AND looks good.

Ciao.

I would imagine Danica has no problem getting a good ride.

_________________"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea."

It is important. That is why we are talking about it on a F1 forum. NASCAR is the fastest stock car series in the world capable of averaging over 320 kph over a lap. It is a lot different than F1--needing different skills and mindset. Michael Schumacher would not drive a NASCAR car in a race at Daytona or Telladaga and if he did he would not be competitive. Use Juan Pablo Montoya as a measure of NASCAR. He has won in everything else, including on ovals in Indycars, but he has yet to win a NASCAR oval race. NASCAR and F1 cannot be compared in any way except that each is the premier event in their category.

Part of JPM's lack of success is his average team. Chip Ganassi has incredible teams in Grand Am and IndyCar, but his NASCAR team is not that competitive. Also, he has actually come seriously close to winning on ovals in the past. He would've won the Brickyard 400 a few years back but was penalized for speeding in the pit lane after the final stop. He was way out in front by then.

As for Danica, it's great to see her get off to a good start. I still think she should've been in Nationwide for another year, but she was pretty clear about the pressure she felt from sponsors to move up to the Cup series when she thanked GoDaddy for being patient with her.

Meanwhile, on the same day, Courtney Force got her 2nd career victory in the NHRA, and became the first woman to win the Winternationals. I was there for that, since the track is roughly 60 miles from my house, and the crowd roared when she did it. Nothing on ESPN SportsCenter about it, though....

It is important. That is why we are talking about it on a F1 forum. NASCAR is the fastest stock car series in the world capable of averaging over 320 kph over a lap. It is a lot different than F1--needing different skills and mindset. Michael Schumacher would not drive a NASCAR car in a race at Daytona or Telladaga and if he did he would not be competitive. Use Juan Pablo Montoya as a measure of NASCAR. He has won in everything else, including on ovals in Indycars, but he has yet to win a NASCAR oval race. NASCAR and F1 cannot be compared in any way except that each is the premier event in their category.

Part of JPM's lack of success is his average team. Chip Ganassi has incredible teams in Grand Am and IndyCar, but his NASCAR team is not that competitive. Also, he has actually come seriously close to winning on ovals in the past. He would've won the Brickyard 400 a few years back but was penalized for speeding in the pit lane after the final stop. He was way out in front by then.

As for Danica, it's great to see her get off to a good start. I still think she should've been in Nationwide for another year, but she was pretty clear about the pressure she felt from sponsors to move up to the Cup series when she thanked GoDaddy for being patient with her.

Meanwhile, on the same day, Courtney Force got her 2nd career victory in the NHRA, and became the first woman to win the Winternationals. I was there for that, since the track is roughly 60 miles from my house, and the crowd roared when she did it. Nothing on ESPN SportsCenter about it, though....

ESPN is big on live coverage for NHRA, but no type of review from the events. Except for the occasional blow up or so.

This is not only big for Danica, but even better for NASCAR. She was quick all weekend and I mean all weekend last week and I think she will do well, but the restrictor plate tracks do involve a bit of luck. I think she will finish in the top ten, but she has to keep her nose clean during the race. Its extremely important to stay near the front to avoid the "Big One". She's really improving more and more. Remember, she did finish top 10 in the points for the NNS series last season and her future is quite bright. Stewart-Haas Racing and with the combination of the Hendrick engine package... That car she has is a rocket btw.

She will do well and btw I wish the best to Katherine Legge after being replaced at Dragon Racing... She deserved a lot more than what she received from Jay Penske...

I didn't think that she had achieved enough in Indy Car to get a ride over other drivers that had been more successful. Personally, I find that insulting.

I don't think it's any more insulting than pay drivers getting rides while those without sponsorship are forced to leave the sport. No matter how you got there, at some point you still have to prove you are good enough to be there and Danica has done that. I don't know that she will ever be a top tier driver, but she has certainly earned the right to drive NASCAR.

Meanwhile, on the same day, Courtney Force got her 2nd career victory in the NHRA, and became the first woman to win the Winternationals. I was there for that, since the track is roughly 60 miles from my house, and the crowd roared when she did it. Nothing on ESPN SportsCenter about it, though....

That is cool, Snake. Winternationals still at Pomona? I must say that I am a bit surprised that Muldowney never won at the Winternationals though... oh, well, she did quite well on other tracks though!

I think the difference is that these drivers got these gigs on the back of the fact that they are very good at what they are primarily paid to do, racing. They've, for want of a better way of putting it, earned this exposure by winning races and championships and, if they hadn't done that, they wouldn't be doing the campaigns (how many backmarkers do we see doing this sort of thing?). I think what irks people is that Danica got a whole load of exposure despite the fact she had won jack all at the time due to the fact that she had a set of boobs and a pretty(ish) face, something that, unlike wins and championships, she didn't have to work years to achieve. Of course, this is more a reflection on our culture and what the people want than on her but she is still embracing it and it is still irritating for some people.

Do I find stuff like Schuey's "because I'm worth it" ad, Hami looking a bit special in GQ or JB whoring himself out for Head and Shoulders stupid? Yes. But I can tolerate them a bit because I think "hey, they've won a load of races and earned they're fame".

_________________"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea."

to be fair to danica she might not have won much, but she is a race winner and her performance in her first indy500 was worthy of recognition. Its not fair to call her a set of boobs. Elite driver? probably not, decent driver worthy of a place on the grid? certainly.

I think the difference is that these drivers got these gigs on the back of the fact that they are very good at what they are primarily paid to do, racing. They've, for want of a better way of putting it, earned this exposure by winning races and championships and, if they hadn't done that, they wouldn't be doing the campaigns (how many backmarkers do we see doing this sort of thing?). I think what irks people is that Danica got a whole load of exposure despite the fact she had won jack all at the time due to the fact that she had a set of boobs and a pretty(ish) face, something that, unlike wins and championships, she didn't have to work years to achieve. Of course, this is more a reflection on our culture and what the people want than on her but she is still embracing it and it is still irritating for some people.

Do I find stuff like Schuey's "because I'm worth it" ad, Hami looking a bit special in GQ or JB whoring himself out for Head and Shoulders stupid? Yes. But I can tolerate them a bit because I think "hey, they've won a load of races and earned they're fame".

Well she has been relatively successfull.

As for backmarkers well isn't Narain one of the most influential and most wanted sports personalities in India?

Heikkis done adverts.

The pay drivers don't get the money for nothing. Their respective sponsors all pimp out the driver. Just like Go-Daddy does for Danica.

And remember just because she's not seen as successful on this side of the Atlantic just like Dario on their side they are seen as stars. Where as the Likes of Nico Rosberg they would say "Who's that ? what has he done, One win One pole not very successful is he? " So there is the perspective thing in the relevant markets.

Given a choice between being a "white knight" or being a chauvinist who in total ignorance dismisses an entire gender as being incapable of racing competitively, I will gladly choose to be the "knight".

Quote:

Well, it's nascar, which is far from difficult to be good in

Tell us, fishy, how good are you at NASCAR then? OR is this yet another post of yours that shows ignorance? You are doing well.

_________________Forza Ferrari WCCs = 16 WDCs = 15

Last edited by Blake on Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Given a choice between being a "white knight" or being a chauvinist who in total ignorance dismisses an entire gender as being incapable of racing competitively, I will gladly choose to be the "knight".

Quote:

Well, it's nascar, which is far from difficult to be good in

Tell us, fishy, how good are at NASCAR then? OR is this yet another post of yours that shows ignorance? You are doing well.

And remember just because she's not seen as successful on this side of the Atlantic just like Dario on their side they are seen as stars. Where as the Likes of Nico Rosberg they would say "Who's that ? what has he done, One win One pole not very successful is he? " So there is the perspective thing in the relevant markets.

Here's the thing; I watch and enjoy a fair amount of Indy and regard people like Dario as highly successful. In no way am I diminishing the achievements of people who race 'cross th' pond. From what I remember Danica came into the sport with a lot of hype (I guess that's the US media style) when there were kids who were probably just as talented as her who received little to no recognition That's what annoys me.

_________________"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea."

"It's hammer time!"

BritishDriverSupporter (andDanielRicciardo)

Greg Moore - Dan Wheldon

Last edited by Pedrosa_4_Ever on Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

And remember just because she's not seen as successful on this side of the Atlantic just like Dario on their side they are seen as stars. Where as the Likes of Nico Rosberg they would say "Who's that ? what has he done, One win One pole not very successful is he? " So there is the perspective thing in the relevant markets.

Here's the thing; I watch and enjoy a fair amount of Indy and regard people like Dario as highly successful. In no way am I diminishing the achievements of people who race 'cross th' pond. From what I remember Danica came into the sport with a lot of hype (I guess that's the US media style) when there were kids who were probably just as talented as her who received little to no recognition That's what annoys me.

Isn't that the same in any series. You will get some drivers come in relatively quietly and those surrounded by hype?

Okay hers will be a certain bit more but thats because women are still a novelty in racing.

to take one thats been in the news, look a what followed Oscar Pistorius when he did the Olympics. How many of the other guys that beat him can you name?