I remember that Ali Ataie debated Michael Licona and later David Wood.He was representing the MSA.In the Licona debate somebody asked him if he was for killing apostates.

Ali Ataie said he was no expert on Sharia law,he never condemned it.

I had asked Paul Williams in his blog a few times if he was against killing apostates.He never answered.And he is of the MDI(Muslim Debate Initiative)in the UK.

I liked the "Jesus or Muhammad" show about if Allah killed Muhammad.I had never heard that information before.

The more one knows the better.I remember that Dan Barker,who says he knows the Bible,atheist,ex-Chistian,saying Jesus never condemned slavery,saying you could beat some slaves.

Lack of Knowledge

I think he is no scholar.The Greek word doulos means slave but it is translated as "servant".Why?Jesus was speaking to Jews who were under MOSAIC LAW,(except for applying the death penalty,the Romans had taken that from them).

INDENTURED SERVANT

In colonial times many English came payed by another and had to work for several years free,till they payed their debt.

In Mosaic law if you fell in debt you could repay by working free for 6 years,on the 7th you were automatically free.

Or your daughter could do it for you.

DEATH FOR SLAVETRADERS IN MOSAIC LAW

There are 2 laws,one says death for slavetrading of Jews,the other just in general.The question is which law limits which?

Whatever the case,a Jewish "slave" could NOT be sold,families broken up.It was just like the indentured servant system.

ALOT OF GIFTS AFTER 6 YEARS

The Jewish man in debt ,in Mosaic law,was to get alot of gifts from his master.

Conclusion

That was the system that existed in Palestine in Jesus' time.That is why the translators use the word servant.Dan Barker is no scholar,he should know that the "slave" of Mosaic law was alot more a servant than like a slave of Georgia,Missisipi,Virginia.

In fact Mosaic law says if a servant-slave escapes he is free,and every 50 years all the servants-slaves in the country are free.

The MSA should not be allowed to be an official group at any University in the U.S., period!...but of course the self induced hypnosis of liberalism-gone-wrong on our college campuses will probably ensure that change isn't made any time soon.

For those who wish to ban the MSA do any of you think that any colleges or university has the courage to such a think. The only ones they will ban is a spokeman for Israel or a Christian group that speaks out against homosesuality.

But maybe allowing them on campus is for the best. At least we can keep an eye on them. Or at least I hope we keep an eye on them.

And besies let's go their events and preach Christ. I have done that in the past and it is great opportunity.

Simply put: radicals have more incentive and motivation to seek greater power for themselves than moderate Muslims. And so the radicals will tend to have the power, while the moderates, despite being a majority, will not.

Same with any political system: those who desire to exercise that power the most will be the most motivated of all to take it. That's why limitations like terms of office and separate branches of government are necessary to inhibit the aspirations of those who would take the whole prize for themselves if they could.

Given that this religion is also a political system, and no less than God's will is the end to justify whatever means it takes to implement that system, it's obvious why Islam is NOT what this world needs...

If open advocacy of genocide doesn't convince a person then nothing will. Sadly the Left is so morally blinded they ignore even Islam's treatment of groups they supposedly defend. Simply amazing... except that the Left is only really about using whatever means to gain power as well.

I'm reminded of this short quote, which sums it up nicely: "power is evil" - Bernard Bailyn

[He goes on to say: "a necessity perhaps but an evil necessity; that it is infinitely corrupting; and that it must be controlled, limited, restricted in every way compatible with a minimum of civil order. Written constitutions; the separation of powers; bill of rights; limitations on executives, on legislatures, and courts; restrictions on the right to coerce and wage war—all express the profound distrust of power that lies at the ideological heart of the American Revolution and that has remained with us as a permanent legacy ever after."]

Islam is totalitarian in its thinking in that the end always justifies the means, and Allah's will is the ultimate rationalisation.

What most of these young zealots don't understand is that once they make themselves Muslim, they will not be free to change their minds.They will not be free to change anything.And they will certainly not be free to live by reason. I've never seen youth so enthusiastically accept a lifetime bridle of servitude and submission in a supposedly "free" country.

Oh yeah, MSA is a front for terrorists. My MSA chapter on campus must be too, and I'm probably a terrorist since I've been a member.

There's way too many fearful and paranoid Americans. The hysteria of the Media causes mass fear when its clearly unnecessary. All Muslims will not try to take over the world! Just like how Communists, Catholics, Japanese, and Irish haven't in the past. See a pattern there?

Nice try, Freshman. You gave the standard response we meet over and over again. If we say, "Islam commands violence," a Muslim responds, "So you're saying that every single Muslim in the world is a terrorist? That's absurd." Similarly, you're response to the FACT that a disproportionately large number of U.S. jihadists have a background in the MSA is "So you're saying we're all terrorists?" No one said this at all. Most Muslims (even most Muslims in the MSA) are ignorant of Muhammad's teachings.

But if you'd like to make all of us feel better, please tell us that you condemn the following teachings:

Qur’an 5:51—O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Qur’an 9:29—Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Qur’an 9:123—O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.

Qur’an 48:29—Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves.

Sahih Muslim 33—The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

Note: If your MSA chapter wants to convince Westerners that Islam is a religion of peace, you should host a public debate to refute the claims against Islam.

Quote:All Muslims will not try to take over the world! Just like how Communists, Catholics, Japanese, and Irish haven't in the past. See a pattern there?end quote.

No I don't.I look at Islam and see an unbroken history of conquest, rape, pillage, plunder and mass murder.I see a community that divides people according to whether or not they submit.I see a pack of wild dogs savaging the civilized world.That's the pattern I see when I look at Islam and the movement of Muslims.

David Wood, you said I gave the standard response, well you gave the standard set of Quranic verses that are taken out of context and misconstrued.

You guys didn't seem to make any response to what I said about the common American person. Let me get into detail, since you apparently don't see a connection, goethechosemercy. In the '50s there was wide spread fear of Communism to the point where the government black listed people who believed were supposedly associated. The American gov't even involved itself in proxy wars to prevent the spread of Communism. In the end, what did this fear procure? Absolutely nothing. America gained nothing involving itself in those wars, including Vietnam. Throughout America's history this same pattern follows. Japanese were put in camps after Pearl Harbor for doing nothing. There's always been a fear of Catholicism--especially when JFK was getting elected. Now, the targets are Muslims. The fear is being fueled by the Media. In a few years a new set of people will be targeted. Americans have a repeatable sense of Xenophobia--against Germans, Irish in the '20s, and now Hispanics as of recent.

"No I don't.I look at Islam and see an unbroken history of conquest, rape, pillage, plunder and mass murder.I see a community that divides people according to whether or not they submit.I see a pack of wild dogs savaging the civilized world.That's the pattern I see when I look at Islam and the movement of Muslims."

So Islam is completely represented by the specific countries who do evil deeds? I can make the same arguments on Christianity with Hitler and the Catholic church. Look at the Inquisition, look at the Crusades, look at the all the civilizations Conquistadors wiped out for their "Gold, God, and Glory." Your argument goes nowhere. And what about countries like Turkey, Albania, Azerbaijan, among others that are secular states with a Muslim-majority population.

Hmmm, the standard "out of context" response. Please give us the context of these verses, in order to show that they mean the opposite of what they say. (BTW, you can't, since the context doesn't change the meaning at all, and since Muhammad's companions interpreted them to mean exactly what they say.)

Women in Islam

American Freedom Law Center

America

The Truth about CAIR

FAQ Page

On this website, we engage Muslims and the foundations of Islam without trying to be "PC". We feel honesty is better than disguised language. As you can read on our FAQ, this is out of love, not out of hatred. Thanks, and we're looking forward to seeing your comments!