Also the incident was not intended to be a battle from what I see until the activists attacked the israeli forces. Also from your article.

Quote:

The six-ship flotilla, carrying 10,000 tonnes of aid, left the coast of Cyprus on Sunday and had been due to arrive in Gaza on Monday. Israel had repeatedly said the boats would not be allowed to reach Gaza.

Israel says its soldiers boarded the lead ship in the early hours but were attacked with axes, knives, bars and at least two guns.

"Unfortunately this group were dead-set on confrontation," Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev told the BBC.

"Live fire was used against our forces. They initiated the violence, that's 100% clear," he said.

Organisers of the flotilla said at least 30 people were wounded in the incident. Israel says 10 of its soldiers were injured, one seriously.

Of course Israel lies at all times and so cannot be trusted to tell the truth here. Not even with video evidence.

NoahJ"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi

Apologies for my flippant post above. I was pissed off and anticipating the usual 'Israel right or wrong/who cares' attitude but this issue deserves better.

I'll try again in more serious vein:

Attack was not justified. Was in International Waters and the commandos seized the boat BEFORE any conflict occurred whoever the instigator was. That's piracy and a crime.

Second, the question behind all this is larger: why is Israel starving the people of Gaza to the extent they NEED aid regardless of stopping any getting there. Incidentally, this aid, had it got through represents 70% of the weekly aid delivered to Gaza.

Another point: one can't help but notice that 'outrageous incidents' often occur when Israel wants to avoid something - the Peace Talks tomorrow perhaps.

People may shout 'tin hats' as they are wont but the incidence of such things at favourable times to Israel is very high. And Israel is the only country that can really afford the tactic for two reasons:

1) No-one will do anything regardless of whatever they do

2) They just don't care what anyone thinks anyway and have no concept whatsoever of detente.

Anyway, nothing will happen here though I would suggest the time has come for a boycott as happened with the equally abhorrent Apartheid regime in South Africa.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

Israel's story that "crew members attacked" the IDF runs counter to common sense, especially knowing that the IDF are equipped with state of the art weapons and could sink the entire fleet in minutes. Obviously, such a "final solution" to this issue would have been not in Israel's interest, and the entire mid-east could have erupted in flames. Even though Israel knows it can "do whatever it likes, with immunity and impunity" as regards the West, they are not stupid enough to go the whole hog. they could have done the same in Gaza (ie leveled it 100% and killed every person there).. but that might have promoted some "unfavorable" reactions, even in the US.

Apparently, people on board the boats were "waving white flags". Turkish eyewitness reports have claimed that the IDF "killed some of the flotilla crew members as they slept". Obviously the organizers are pretty pissed right now (who wouldnt be?)... and may be milking this for sympathy.... BUT... the IDF has a track record of carrying out, or enabling massacres... for example the thousands killed at Sabra and Shatila in 1980, in which even an Israeli court of inquiry came to the verdict that the IDF "played a part" in the massacres.

Lets see the evidence on videotape. However, there's one big problem: If the IDF did indeed commit what has been alleged, they would have used their overwhelming firepower to confiscate/destroy any incriminating evidence which could be used in any future court case. The mandate/instructions from the Israeli Government would have probably been:

(1) Go ahead and attack; do whatever it takes.
(2) Make damned sure the world does not see what actually happened.

We the public deserve an honest complete review of the facts with scientific interpretation and implications as to what really happened on 9/11. Bill Binney, Former senior technical director, NSA.

Maybe if we all get very angry and demonstrate in the streets outside Israeli embassies and demand our leaders make denunciations, and if we retweet links and make comments on newspaper articles, the Israeli government will care for nineteen seconds what anyone in the world thinks and will think twice before it

Maybe if we all get very angry and demonstrate in the streets outside Israeli embassies and demand our leaders make denunciations, and if we retweet links and make comments on newspaper articles, the Israeli government will care for nineteen seconds what anyone in the world thinks and will think twice before it

oh nothing

Israel won't think twice. It doesn't care.

The only real choice is to take some form of direct action as our glorious leaders are complicit with this Rogue State.

It's possible without violence or war. Communism fell so did Apartheid...those regimes were ball-park as bad as the Israeli regime.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

The video was quite clear. The Israeli commandos were attacked as soon as they set foot aboard. They pushed back, but didn't shoot until one was stabbed and thrown overboard by the mob of terrorists. Seems the Israelis showed great restraint in only shooting 10- 2 of which shot at the commandos. The terrorists clearly wanted a fight, to drive up donations and anti-Israeli sentiment. It worked. The anti-Semites, UN included, have condemned Israel and the Jew haters online can spew their typical rhetoric.

The video was quite clear. The Israeli commandos were attacked as soon as they set foot aboard. They pushed back, but didn't shoot until one was stabbed and thrown overboard by the mob of terrorists. Seems the Israelis showed great restraint in only shooting 10- 2 of which shot at the commandos. The terrorists clearly wanted a fight, to drive up donations and anti-Israeli sentiment. It worked. The anti-Semites, UN included, have condemned Israel and the Jew haters online can spew their typical rhetoric.

Quote:

The U.N. Security Council held an emergency meeting Monday on Israel's deadly commando raid on ships taking humanitarian aid to the blockaded Gaza Strip, with the Palestinians and Arab nations demanding condemnation and an independent investigation.

The Palestinians and Arabs, backed by a number of council members, also called for Israel to lift the blockade on Gaza, immediately release the ships and humanitarian activists, and allow them to deliver their goods.

Assistant Secretary-General Oscar Fernandez-Taranco said in his briefing to the U.N.'s most powerful body that the early morning bloodshed on Monday would have been avoided "if repeated calls on Israel to end the counterproductive and unacceptable blockade of Gaza had been heeded,

Terrorists?

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination

I am not so ignorant nor naive as to trust the word of Palestinian 'aid' groups, nor the UN. How do you think guns, rockets and bombs make it to Palestine? They are smuggled in by 'aid' groups. Just last year a cache of weapons was found among UN 'relief' supplies. The people on the flotilla were there to cause trouble. They got what they deserved.

You can profess your love for the Palestinians and spout your anti-Semitism, but at the end of the day, if you went to Palestine, you'd probably end up on a video getting your head cut off. Same can't be said if you went to Israel.

Why wait for what actually happened, lets all jump on the bandwagon for whatever side and call for sanctions, violence, sit-ins, or whatever. Then when the truth comes out one side will be vindicated and the other side will call foul anyhow. I love how the conspiracies already abound.

Why wait for what actually happened, lets all jump on the bandwagon for whatever side and call for sanctions, violence, sit-ins, or whatever. Then when the truth comes out one side will be vindicated and the other side will call foul anyhow. I love how the conspiracies already abound.

In the second video he reports that the white flag was raised after the Isreali forces landed on the ship. Not before.

Right now it looks really damning for Israel. If you had commados boarding a ship you were on wouldn't the tendency be to protect it?

Was the attack on a ship giving humanitarian aid necessary?

Quote:

Why wait for what actually happened, lets all jump on the bandwagon for whatever side and call for sanctions, violence, sit-ins, or whatever. Then when the truth comes out one side will be vindicated and the other side will call foul anyhow

And if the evidence shows it was just a ship giving aid which for right now it seems that was the case?

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination

You can profess your love for the Palestinians and spout your anti-Semitism, but at the end of the day, if you went to Palestine, you'd probably end up on a video getting your head cut off. Same can't be said if you went to Israel.

There is likely more risk to an American Citizen in Palestine, but it is not that bad. Israel is also riskier than going to other foreign nations such as England or Germany. You don't need to overdo it... \

NoahJ"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi

You can profess your love for the Palestinians and spout your anti-Semitism, but at the end of the day, if you went to Palestine, you'd probably end up on a video getting your head cut off. Same can't be said if you went to Israel.

Listen bucko I don't love or hate either side. I see them as people and when one group attacks another and they have to fight back by throwing furniture something seems fishy.

Please don't even attempt to label my different point of view with

Quote:

anti-Semitism

or I will report it.

That's enough of that.

I just don't buy that Israel can do no wrong. That doesn't mean I hate Jews or any other group. If you knew my up bringing you see that my parents wouldn't tolarate any kind of thinking like that. I try to teach my family the same thing. We're all people on this tiny planet and all equal.

Sorry but you're barking up the wrong tree.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination

Right now it looks really damning for Israel. If you had commados boarding a ship you were on wouldn't the tendency be to protect it?

Actually, I was boarded last summer by the Coast Guard while out on the Bay with a small group. They were doing BUI checks and safety checks to see if we had enough life vests, and let me and my party on our way with little delay.
Oddly enough, shooting at the Coast Guard boarding party, nor stabbing or attacking them with metal poles never crossed our minds. We, of course, weren't up to no good, nor had anything to hide.

Actually, I was boarded last summer by the Coast Guard while out on the Bay with a small group. They were doing BUI checks and safety checks to see if we had enough life vests, and let me and my party on our way with little delay.
Oddly enough, shooting at the Coast Guard boarding party, nor stabbing or attacking them with metal poles never crossed our minds. We, of course, weren't up to no good, nor had anything to hide.

Were they commados? Somehow I don't think this was even close to that situation.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination

The term commando, in English, means a specific kind of individual soldier or military unit. In contemporary usage, commando usually means elite light infantry and/or special forces units, specialised in amphibious landings, parachuting, rappelling and similar techniques, to conduct and effect attacks. Originally “a commando” was a type of combat unit, as opposed to an individual in that unit. In other languages, commando and kommando denote a “command”, in the sense of a military unit.

In the militaries of most countries, commandos are distinctive in that they specialise in assault on conventional military targets.

So the guys that boarded your boat were like that?

Also come to think of it I did post something about Israel once. When arguing with SDW about the Iraq war his justification for our attack was that Iraq had violated UN resolutions. What he didn't take into account was that many countries had done this and guess who had the worst record for this?

That still doesn't mean I hate them. Just stating a fact. It was the irony that a friend to the US was the worst.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination

You said it yourself- they were attempting to run a blockade and enter territorial waters of a sovereign nation. I imagine if N. Korean vessels showed up off the coast of Virginia or Maryland, a commando unit would board said vessel.
Perhaps you should watch the video and study a little maritime law. They were attacked as they were repelling down. They didn't fight back, nor got a chance to waive guns around. Once shots were fired, the Israelis defended themselves. As I said, they showed great restraint.

You said it yourself- they were attempting to run a blockade and enter territorial waters of a sovereign nation. I imagine if N. Korean vessels showed up off the coast of Virginia or Maryland, a commando unit would board said vessel.
Perhaps you should watch the video and study a little maritime law. They were attacked as they were repelling down. They didn't fight back, nor got a chance to waive guns around. Once shots were fired, the Israelis defended themselves. As I said, they showed great restraint.

I am not so ignorant nor naive as to trust the word of Palestinian 'aid' groups, nor the UN. How do you think guns, rockets and bombs make it to Palestine? They are smuggled in by 'aid' groups. Just last year a cache of weapons was found among UN 'relief' supplies. The people on the flotilla were there to cause trouble. They got what they deserved.

The aid was destined for 1.5 million people who live in abject conditions, because the hardline Israeli leadership has decided thus, just because they can. They hold the world over the Emotional Blackmail Barrel spawned by the Holocaust, and milked every drop from the sympathy well. At some point, people are going to see through this abuse.

Obviously, neither the US nor Israel want peace... many welplaced/influential Americans and Israelis are deeply invested in the conflict and have been for decades.

We the public deserve an honest complete review of the facts with scientific interpretation and implications as to what really happened on 9/11. Bill Binney, Former senior technical director, NSA.

The aid was destined for 1.5 million people who live in abject conditions, because the hardline Israeli leadership has decided thus, just because they can. They hold the world over the Emotional Blackmail Barrel spawned by the Holocaust, and milked every drop from the sympathy well. At some point, people are going to see through this abuse.

Obviously, neither the US nor Israel want peace... many welplaced/influential Americans and Israelis are deeply invested in the conflict and have been for decades.

Funny how no country in the region will take in the Palestinians. In fact, Lebanon has fired on refugee camps. Wonder why that is?
The Palestinians clearly don't want peace. They could have had it years ago. Kidnappings and firing rockets prove they don't. Their 'leaders' use the conflict to stay in power.