Esme echo wrote:I know I'll hear howls of disbelief for saying this, but in my opinion, it's not criminal to accidentally bruise your beloved. It happens; the important question is, was it deliberate? Uncaring or careless? How do each of you feel?

Consider that Edward:--is a vampire, --his physical reactions are more intense than a human's, and --his super strength is an ever-present danger to Bella.

No one could have tried to be more careful than Edward during that night; he could not have been more remorseful that he didn't have perfect control during his first sexual experience.

At the same time, Bella could not remember a single moment when she felt that Edward was holding her too tightly (p. 89). She acknowledged that she marked up easily (p. 95) and she was less sore afterwards than when she'd over-done it at the gym (p. 91). Bella was totally joyed that their very unequal physical characteristics were not a greater factor in their physical relationship. I appreciated her comment, "Fire and ice, somehow existing together without destroying each other."

For me, the most important part of this incident is that in subsequent "practice," Edward did not bruise Bella again! One of the things I love most about Edward is his total commitment to keeping Bella safe and happy.

Esme echo, I agree with you 100%! That is such a thorough answer too, how could anyone agrue with it? My favorite thing about your response is the last sentence. Edward would do anything and eveything in his power to make sure the Bella was safe and as unharmed as possible.

For all the fuss about how Edward "hurt" Bella - what do people think would have happened with Jacob?

He would have done as much damage to her; probably worse. After all, we've seen that Jacob has NO problem with manhandling Bella - look what happened when she broke her hand after he forced a kiss on her. He laughed his head off.

Not to mention, look what Sam did to Emily.

Edward, OTOH, has always tried not to hurt Bella; unlike Jacob, he takes his power seriously.

Bkwrm wrote:For all the fuss about how Edward "hurt" Bella - what do people think would have happened with Jacob?

He would have done as much damage to her; probably worse. After all, we've seen that Jacob has NO problem with manhandling Bella - look what happened when she broke her hand after he forced a kiss on her. He laughed his head off.

Not to mention, look what Sam did to Emily.

Edward, OTOH, has always tried not to hurt Bella; unlike Jacob, he takes his power seriously.

Yup, Jacob always acted like it was cool toy..once he got over the initial shock of it.

Esme echo - I totally agree with that statement. At the end of the day he is stronger than her as we all know, and it very well could have got a lot worse if Bella had have been in place of the pillows, but Edward was in control enough not to bite her and that was his main focus anyway. And its hard to focus through those kind of feelings anyway, as we see with Bella not even feeling the bruising. It does happen, in normal relationships, let alone ones with vampires

Bkwrm - I also agree with this. Though Jacob is fair to force his love on Bella to make his point that she loves him too. Though Im not sure that he would really ever hurt her intentionally, just like Edward wouldnt.

I am certain Jacob wouldn't have hurt Bella intentionally! If Edward were out of the equation and Bella and Jacob had gotten married, I feel sure their honeymoon would have been no more dangerous than any normal human couple's.

Jacob had relaxed a lot in New Moon--until Alice came back! Check out pages 374-377. He was gentle, thoughtful, and in total control of himself. Those times when Jacob "manhandled" Bella during Eclipse he was acting out of desperation. I'm not justifying his callous physical domination over Bella at times; but when there were no vampires about and Bella was not rushing towards her death, Jacob was very much like the sunny boy Bella first met.

By the way, I don't recall a single instance in the saga when Jacob actually injured Bella. She broke her hand when she hit him, but I don't recall that his treatment of her ever even bruised Bella. Am I wrong?

I never said he would do it *on purpose*. The thing with Jacob is he doesn't THINK. He's not really... aware of his own strength, especially when he's caught up in his emotions. "I will rescue you, Bella! I will force you to realize your love for me!"

He forced himself on Bella; as a result, she broke her hand. It's that simple. He laughed at her injury. He thought it was funny. I can't agree that he was right to do it; even to "prove" that she loves him.

As AgentCross pointed out, he thinks it's cool to be a werewolf. He's having fun being a werewolf.

He thinks because he's a mammal that he's human. He's not. He could break Bella as easily as Edward, because he doesn't see himself as dangerous, even with the evidence of Emily's face.

Well, Bkwrm, you have absolutely valid points. Jacob doesn't always exercise good judgment, doesn't realize how strong he is, and doesn't act with too much concern when Bella breaks her hand. His behavior gets a little more desperate and a little more out-of-bounds with each step Bella takes towards immortality.

Nevertheless, in the Bruises forum, I just wanted to point out that to my knowledge, Jacob never bruised Bella. Unless I am forgetting something?