I respectfully disagree though on the TV Title match. First PPV opportunity for Scurll and Ospreay, NO WAY in hell they put them in a 4 way with Fish and Lee...just don't see it.

Well, it is official, Ospreay vs Fish vs Scurll vs Lee for the TV Title at Final Battle.
I love the unpredictability of the TV Title, it just changed hands two times, maybe it can change again at final battle.
I think there are way too much very long title reigns and the belt just change hands after a very long story when it is pretty obvious, which has been a big drawback for almost every ROH World Champion recently.

I agree that this has been a problem,but I don't think the solution is more title changes. I think the solution is to have more strong challengers with well-built title chases going on at the same time, like Bryan and Nigel and Aries and Cole had.

I don't think it's a stretch at all to think that Cole retains. The determining factor will be whether or not O'Reilly signs before the match. If not, he's almost surely leaving and will lose. Cole isn't free until April, which begs the question of what he'll do until then if he does lose.

I think this is the only chance to crown O'Reilly, though. Realistically, I wish they'd be building this more around their history in Hammerstein and making it feel like more of a blowoff. Had the Bucks not just done a Ladder War, that's what I'd have thought they'd finish with...or a FWH, but that'd be too close to their Dallas match. Feels like their should be some kind of stip.

If you look at the concept, the O'Reilly title push that they really started before Lethal beat Briscoe was a GREAT long build in theory. He has Lethal's number, gets his shot...and Cole fucks him over...then he gets distracted with Cole hatred...finally it all comes back around. It's an awesome story. The problem is that there is actual time and a fuck load of shows in the meantime and they have to figure out how to fill in the blanks along the way. That's really Delirious' weakness. The long range vision is good, but keeping people from floundering in the meantime has been a problem.

WHG wrote:If you look at the concept, the O'Reilly title push that they really started before Lethal beat Briscoe was a GREAT long build in theory. He has Lethal's number, gets his shot...and Cole fucks him over...then he gets distracted with Cole hatred...finally it all comes back around. It's an awesome story. The problem is that there is actual time and a fuck load of shows in the meantime and they have to figure out how to fill in the blanks along the way. That's really Delirious' weakness. The long range vision is good, but keeping people from floundering in the meantime has been a problem.

Having a quixotic vision of whom can be their future champion means squat if wrestlers don’t agree to contracts. O’Reilly not signing would make ROH in 2016 a complete embarrassment, but it might be apropos as O’Reilly has been booked like a real jerk this year, wrestling on PPV to Kamaitachi (opening the show), Naito (jobbing in an inconsequential match), Page (a definitively midcard match), and playing third wheel against Lethal and Cole.

O’Reilly is an incredible worker, but we often see how ROH struggles in developing top faces with weaker promo skills. Maybe the past 18 months would have been different if he were a better promo or something. But, that’s conjecture. It’s hard to make sense of the time past Best in the World 2015, with the Lethal yarn, Briscoe suddenly becoming a contender, Cabana popping in and out, Cole joining Bullet Club without any build, and O’Reilly just being booked recklessly.

In general, I find Johnston’s booking so flim-flammy that I don’t confidently say he has discernable strengths. Of course, some of the stuff has worked, and has worked well, but he is very inconsistent.

WHG wrote:I don't think it's a stretch at all to think that Cole retains. The determining factor will be whether or not O'Reilly signs before the match. If not, he's almost surely leaving and will lose. Cole isn't free until April, which begs the question of what he'll do until then if he does lose.

I think this is the only chance to crown O'Reilly, though. Realistically, I wish they'd be building this more around their history in Hammerstein and making it feel like more of a blowoff. Had the Bucks not just done a Ladder War, that's what I'd have thought they'd finish with...or a FWH, but that'd be too close to their Dallas match. Feels like their should be some kind of stip.

If you look at the concept, the O'Reilly title push that they really started before Lethal beat Briscoe was a GREAT long build in theory. He has Lethal's number, gets his shot...and Cole fucks him over...then he gets distracted with Cole hatred...finally it all comes back around. It's an awesome story. The problem is that there is actual time and a fuck load of shows in the meantime and they have to figure out how to fill in the blanks along the way. That's really Delirious' weakness. The long range vision is good, but keeping people from floundering in the meantime has been a problem.

I agree, although I'd add that part of his problem is, perhaps, thinking too long-term. There was no reason to wait an entire year to do the Lethal vs. Briscoe, rematch, and as a consequence of that (and one or two other things they have done) Lethal's reign spent months and months flopping around doing nothing and O'Reilly's win has been pushed off perhaps too long. If they had done Lethal vs. Briscoe either last year or SCOH weekend 2016 they could have gotten the belt onto Cole at BITW 2016 and then built the O'Reilly title chase much better so that it would feel hot again once we came to Final Battle.

WHG wrote:I don't think it's a stretch at all to think that Cole retains. The determining factor will be whether or not O'Reilly signs before the match. If not, he's almost surely leaving and will lose. Cole isn't free until April, which begs the question of what he'll do until then if he does lose.

I think this is the only chance to crown O'Reilly, though. Realistically, I wish they'd be building this more around their history in Hammerstein and making it feel like more of a blowoff. Had the Bucks not just done a Ladder War, that's what I'd have thought they'd finish with...or a FWH, but that'd be too close to their Dallas match. Feels like their should be some kind of stip.

If you look at the concept, the O'Reilly title push that they really started before Lethal beat Briscoe was a GREAT long build in theory. He has Lethal's number, gets his shot...and Cole fucks him over...then he gets distracted with Cole hatred...finally it all comes back around. It's an awesome story. The problem is that there is actual time and a fuck load of shows in the meantime and they have to figure out how to fill in the blanks along the way. That's really Delirious' weakness. The long range vision is good, but keeping people from floundering in the meantime has been a problem.

It's the good old "waiting way too long before putting the belt on someone" and a horrendous lack of (good) storytelling.