When is enough, enough? The United States has not had one single major refinery built in the last 30 years. The U.S. has not launched any major oil exploration in the last two decades. As an American taxpaying and pro-business consumer, I am mad as hell. Our Congress is brainwashed on going green at the expense of the American economy. I'm all for alternative energy methods, but they should be implemented when they are ready for the masses. At the moment they are not. So we sit in the doo loop of importing oil from the Middle East and South America. Not the greatest when you consider it's dollars to terror or communism. So dang it it's time to drill some more. The enviromentalist lobby can go pound salt. Who knows? Boston Tea Party #2 could be about fuel and the high price of it.

I agree with you. Here in the UK we have even worse prices. It costs about £1.08 a liter, which is a heck of a lot. One of the main reasons why the prices are so steep is because of all the government taxes. They seem to get a kick out of squeezing every last penny out of us in the name "going green".

touchthesky

05-04-08, 18:18

I believe it's £1.16 a litre here for diesel and a little cheaper for petrol.

It's so expensive.

So much for Tesco's low prices..

Mr.Burns

05-04-08, 18:19

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/ :wve:

Zac Medley

05-04-08, 18:20

It's pretty interesting to speculate about where all this is leading us to. I'm from the UK so I know that even $3.66 per gal is still a whole lot less that most of the rest of the world has been paying for years.

I'm not really sure what to make of it but it doesn't look good.

The one silver lining is that poor folks like me will still be poor no matter what happens, but the middle class is getting hammered and stands to loose a lot.

Mad Tony

05-04-08, 18:20

I believe it's £1.16 a litre here for diesel and a little cheaper for petrol.

It's so expensive.

So much for Tesco's low prices..Thought it was less than that. The Shell garage we have round here must be really cheap then.

Cochrane

05-04-08, 18:21

High price? Where? $3.66 per gallon is €0.614 per litre. I'd be happy, really actually happy, without any sarcasm, if I got my gas for twice that price. Last I've seen was €1.389/litre, which translates to €8.27 per gallon.

As an alternate method, try driving smaller cars, and taking the train and bus when possible (which isn't as often in the US as in europe, I know). That technology is actually ready for the masses and has been for a long time.

Edit: Re-reading my post, I get the wrong impression from it, so there's a chance others might as well. I'm not saying americans should pay more for their gas. I'm saying I should pay less for mine. :D

However, it does not look as if significantly lower gas prices are going to happen on either side of the atlantic any time soon. New refiners take an awful lot of time to build, and the middle east doesn't look like cooling down anytime soon either. At best there may be a temporary decrease. So everyone, certainly including me, has to look for alternatives. My favorite option is public transportation, because using a train is (depending on my driving style and average speed I aim for) either cheaper or faster than a car, and certainly more convenient.

As for car development: Better engines, alternate fuels and so on are only going to get us so far, especially with all the electronics we need or at least want (and that's quite a lot, at least for me). A general trend to buy larger cars and SUVs in areas where they are not needed is certainly not sensible looking at the gas prices. Smaller cars are better.

Mr.Burns

05-04-08, 18:34

Seeing as how I only fill up twice a month with a car that gets about 30 MPG, I'm not fussed with the prices. However I do acknowledge the rising prices are hurting everyone and everything economically speaking. I'm also not surprised. This was bound to happen sooner or later and no, new refineries won't help the situation.

Geck-o-Lizard

05-04-08, 18:34

Come live over here for a year Sam, then complain about your prices.

Mad Tony

05-04-08, 18:38

no, new refineries won't help the situation.Why not? New refineries would push up oil supply thus bringing down the cost of gas.

Geck-o-Lizard

05-04-08, 18:40

For how long? That's just procrastination.

Mr.Burns

05-04-08, 18:42

Why not? New refineries would push up oil supply thus bringing down the cost of gas.

Read the link I have provided. But Gecko is right, it's procrastination.

Cochrane

05-04-08, 18:44

Why not? New refineries would push up oil supply thus bringing down the cost of gas.

However, they cannot change the supply and consequently price of the crude oil, which is an important factor. Also, new refineries cost money, which will be reflected in a slightly higher cost of all gas coming from that refinery, or of all gas coming from the company the refinery belongs to. Also, building a refinery takes a lot of time, so it's anything but a short-time measure.

Building new refineries is right and important. Just don't expect it to lower the gas prices significantly.

Paul H

05-04-08, 18:53

On my walk this morning, guess what I saw at the local gas station.

$3.66 for a gallon of regular. :mad:

Luxury!

Look at what Brits have to put up with because of the greediest government on Earth:

http://www.abd.org.uk/fuel_tax.htm

Mad Tony

05-04-08, 18:54

Luxury!

Look at what Brits have to put up with because of the greediest government on Earth:

http://www.abd.org.uk/fuel_tax.htmTwo thirds of the cost is tax!? That's outrageous!

Mr.Burns

05-04-08, 19:05

The US should tax more on gas.

Mad Tony

05-04-08, 19:07

The US should tax more on gas.Maybe, maybe not, I'm not in a position to decide for myself whether I think you should, but we should definitely have lower taxes on gas here. I wonder where all that money goes? :rolleyes:

knightgames

05-04-08, 19:07

The US should tax more on gas.

Why? I want NO new taxes on anything. At least not without representation. There is SOOOOOOOOOOo much waste in the government that I see no reason to escalate taxes so they can be misshandled.

Schools are cutting WAY back on extracurricular activities. Services for seniors are cut back. We won't even go into the health care for the mentally ill. Our bridges are a mess. Bailouts for big business......

Mr.Burns

05-04-08, 19:08

Why?

It's too cheap.

clairelovestlc

05-04-08, 19:09

On my walk this morning, guess what I saw at the local gas station.

$3.66 for a gallon of regular. :mad:

come live in the uk.. if you convert the prices, i ( and most people in the uk) pay about $10 a gallon for regular petrol!

(the above is an approx value, i have done the proper maths!)

But given the choice of extortionate petrol prices, public transport ( which sucks) walking the 100 mile round trip i do most days, or moving closer to where i need to go ( which i cant afford to do) I'll choose my car every time.

The government knows they can charge what ever they like for fuel and Joe public will pay for it!

interstellardave

05-04-08, 19:11

The US should tax more on gas.

The United States is huge. Our culture is practical built around the automobile, and travel. Too much too soon hurts all consumers. People really need time to adjust their life to these ever increasing costs. Heck, the biggest part of my gas expenditure comes as a result of my commute to work. Because of my varied hours I can hardly car-pool or the bus. Well, maybe I could take the bus but the cost of doing that has to go up now too!

Zac Medley

05-04-08, 19:11

Why not? New refineries would push up oil supply thus bringing down the cost of gas.

The supply of gas is not a problem, the supply of crude oil is.

Mr.Burns

05-04-08, 19:13

The United States is huge. Our culture is practical built around the automobile, and travel. Too much too soon hurts all consumers. People really need time to adjust their life to these ever increasing costs. Heck, the biggest part of my gas expenditure comes as a result of my commute to work. Because of my varied hours I can hardly car-pool or the bus. Well, maybe I could take the bus but the cost of doing that has to go up now too!

Yea. Unfortunately, we can only maintain such a way of life for only so long. I feel that higher taxes on gas would force conservation quicker than the current pace, which is too slow.

Cochrane

05-04-08, 19:25

The United States is huge. Our culture is practical built around the automobile, and travel. Too much too soon hurts all consumers. People really need time to adjust their life to these ever increasing costs. Heck, the biggest part of my gas expenditure comes as a result of my commute to work. Because of my varied hours I can hardly car-pool or the bus. Well, maybe I could take the bus but the cost of doing that has to go up now too!

There has been the suggestion to increase taxes on gas, and use the money that comes from that to make public transportation more useful (more lines, maybe lower rates). I think this is a good idea. Gas prices are going to go up anyway, so raising them by 10 cent six months earlier than they would have on their own is not that much of a change, and it will help to create alternatives.

Raising prices on gas just because "gas is evil" (that's the eco tax we have in Germany) isn't a good idea at all. It's the purpose that counts.

MiCkiZ88

05-04-08, 19:35

Almost 1.50€ per litre here. And I'm not complaining, though I'd be happier if it was as low as there.

Quasimodo

05-04-08, 19:44

This is just an observation, but I've noticed that more non-U.S. members than U.S. members appear to be purchasing more luxury goods(electronics). How is this possible with high taxes and expensive fuel for most countries on the other side of the Atlantic? I know this is a very weak assumption from a statistics standpoint, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

SamReeves

05-04-08, 19:45

The US should tax more on gas.

Whoa! Heard of this thing called the recession and inflation? :rolleyes:

This is just an observation, but I've noticed that more non-U.S. members than U.S. members appear to be purchasing more luxury goods(electronics). How is this possible with high taxes and expensive fuel for most countries on the other side of the Atlantic? I know this is a very weak assumption from a statistics standpoint, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Certainly not in my case...and I don't even drive!!!!! :o

MiCkiZ88

05-04-08, 19:47

This is just an observation, but I've noticed that more non-U.S. members than U.S. members appear to be purchasing more luxury goods(electronics). How is this possible with high taxes and expensive fuel for most countries on the other side of the Atlantic? I know this is a very weak assumption from a statistics standpoint, but I thought I'd throw it out there.Higher income? Don't ask me, but most here don't have the money to buy a new tv, nor pc. :wve: We have free healthservice (yet we have to pay some sum of money for each visit).

Cochrane

05-04-08, 19:55

This is just an observation, but I've noticed that more non-U.S. members than U.S. members appear to be purchasing more luxury goods(electronics). How is this possible with high taxes and expensive fuel for most countries on the other side of the Atlantic? I know this is a very weak assumption from a statistics standpoint, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Difficult, as I don't know whether the statistics actually are like that. A guess I have: With the english population, everyone is represented here, of all income classes. For the rest of the world, however, the ones who are here are those who speak more or less good english, i.e. those who are more educated. Higher education generally comes with higher disposable income. So that may be a possible reason: Many europeans (without GB) who can't pay that much also do not have the needed education (in foreign languages) to participate in this forum in the first place.

This is only a wild guess. I'm not a researcher.

touchthesky

05-04-08, 19:57

Thought it was less than that. The Shell garage we have round here must be really cheap then.

Our shell is cheaper than tesco.
Something like 112p a litre I think, maybe a little less?

Quasimodo

05-04-08, 19:58

Difficult, as I don't know whether the statistics actually are like that. A guess I have: With the english population, everyone is represented here, of all income classes. For the rest of the world, however, the ones who are here are those who speak more or less good english, i.e. those who are more educated. Higher education generally comes with higher disposable income. So that may be a possible reason: Many europeans (without GB) who can't pay that much also do not have the needed education (in foreign languages) to participate in this forum in the first place.

This is only a wild guess. I'm not a researcher.

That's true. No matter how hard we think we have it, we need to remind ourselves we still have the time and resources to have the luxury of discussing it on this forum :p

Geck-o-Lizard

05-04-08, 20:07

This is just an observation, but I've noticed that more non-U.S. members than U.S. members appear to be purchasing more luxury goods(electronics).

Source?

USP

05-04-08, 20:09

On my walk this morning, guess what I saw at the local gas station.

$3.66 for a gallon of regular. :mad:

When is enough, enough? The United States has not had one single major refinery built in the last 30 years. The U.S. has not launched any major oil exploration in the last two decades. As an American taxpaying and pro-business consumer, I am mad as hell. Our Congress is brainwashed on going green at the expense of the American economy. I'm all for alternative energy methods, but they should be implemented when they are ready for the masses. At the moment they are not. So we sit in the doo loop of importing oil from the Middle East and South America. Not the greatest when you consider it's dollars to terror or communism. So dang it it's time to drill some more. The enviromentalist lobby can go pound salt. Who knows? Boston Tea Party #2 could be about fuel and the high price of it.

Read the story below from Associated Press about the low supply:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i5TtajgUpSm7KY5jf-lCJGHBB-tAD8VR833O0
Oil prices have been completely level with Gold.
It is the dollar that has been crashing. Tell the Fed to turn off the printing presses.

Mr.Burns

05-04-08, 20:15

Whoa! Heard of this thing called the recession and inflation? :rolleyes:

Think this is bad now? Wait until gas is at $10 a gallon. It will happen. I'd rather see $10 a gallon where some of it is taxes rather than entirely in the hands of the oil companies. Drilling? that's just a stop gap measure, not a solution. Conservation, conservation, conservation. It's a start but not a solution either. If we're not running out of light sweet crude oil then why is Canada starting to extract oil from their oil sands and shale when it's been proven to be financially unfeasible? Drilling in Alaska won't solve our problems especially when at the most, it's expected to hold perhaps 10 billion barrels. Now take into account our current rate of consumption: Approximately 20 million bpd. With an estimated amount in Alaska of 10 billion barrels and assuming that we could extract at almost the same rate as our current consumption, we would have 500 days of oil in there. Now given that at most, we would only be able to get maybe and I stress "maybe" 800,000 barrels a day, that's still a mere fraction of what is consumed in a day in the US. Also keep in mind that oil isn't used solely for gas. Pesticides, drugs, plastics, food preservatives, jet fuel, etc. For the last item, only a small percentage of a barrel of oil is used to make jet fuel so more oil is needed to make the appropriate amounts.

Drilling isn't a viable solution. Conservation, living closer to the cities, using mass transport and alternative fuels are a means to solving this problem. But one thing is for certain, we will run out of cheap oil.

@USP: with the crashing value of the dollar and oil prices still based off the dollar, it's looking pretty damn cheap right now.

USP

05-04-08, 20:23

It's too cheap.

Do you have some objective measuring stick for oil prices? What's a good price for you? 5 dollars per gallon? Ten? How will you decide?
The market has spoken for its current price. Nothing can be "too cheap" in a free market.
Sam, I don't see how more tax on gas would lead to recession or inflation. Inflation (of the money supply) is only possible via a central bank. They of course try to blame other factors, including rising energy prices, but it's folly.

Edit- found it:
http://i9.************/80zdc1h.gif

Edit2-

@USP: with the crashing value of the dollar and oil prices still based off the dollar, it's looking pretty damn cheap right now.

I'm a little confused. You would want the dollar to appreciate if you want cheap gas. Not the other way around. Crashing dollar = higher oil prices.

deepbluesea

05-04-08, 20:40

please heres a good idea let pump more oil faster that way we run out faster, hmmm good idea i think not.

Greenkey2

05-04-08, 20:56

When the oil supplies are dwindling,
And the tax bills make you shriek,
Switch to walking, bikes and green fuels,
Or Earth is up :cen: creek.

If you want eloquence and comprehensiveness, however, read Mr Burn's article.

Quasimodo

05-04-08, 22:00

Source?

Just something I've noticed on the forums, particularly the 'post pics of your latest purchase' and the 'HD' threads.

Eddie Haskell

05-04-08, 22:05

Seeing as how I only fill up twice a month with a car that gets about 30 MPG, I'm not fussed with the prices. However I do acknowledge the rising prices are hurting everyone and everything economically speaking. I'm also not surprised. This was bound to happen sooner or later and no, new refineries won't help the situation.

Heheheh, with my Prius I am shocked when I need to get gas. Americans need to get smarter and tell the marketers to stick their "extensions" up their own asses. A car is a method of transportation, nothing more.

If anything the current trend in the uk is to pull your belt tighter and get ready for the hard times!

USP

05-04-08, 23:03

It's too cheap.

Heheheh, with my Prius I am shocked when I need to get gas. Americans need to get smarter and tell the marketers to stick their "extensions" up their own asses. A car is a method of transportation, nothing more.

Seems subjective, don't you think?
Some people, such as myself, see it as a form of entertainment. If it is "just a method of transportation" then certainly the market would reflect that and Porsche, Audi, etc. would all go out of business as people demanded more Priuses (Priusi?).

Eddie Haskell

05-04-08, 23:06

Seems subjective, don't you think?
Some people, such as myself, see it as a form of entertainment. If it is "just a method of transportation" then certainly the market would reflect that and Porsche, Audi, etc. would all go out of business as people demanded more Priuses (Priusi?).

It certainly is, it's a sign of maturity. I had my "fun" cars, more than a few. Had a few sports cars and their ilk, but the only saving grace was that gas was under a buck a gallon. It still was infantile, I'll admit to that.

One day you grow up and realize how stupid it is, particularly in this day and age.

USP

05-04-08, 23:10

It certainly is, it's a sign of maturity. I had my "fun" cars, more than a few. Had a few sports cars and their ilk, but the only saving grace was that gas was under a buck a gallon. It still was infantile, I'll admit to that.

One day you grow up and realize how stupid it is, particularly in this day and age.

How high and mighty you are right now. I would say that arrogance is a sign of immaturity.
Everyone has different tastes in automobiles. Yours is not more "mature" than anyone else's. Some people think the fun factor--to THEM--justifies the cost they pay at the pump.

Eddie Haskell

05-04-08, 23:12

How high and mighty you are right now. I would say that arrogance is a sign of immaturity.
Everyone has different tastes in automobiles. Yours is not more "mature" than anyone else's. Some people think the fun factor--to THEM--justifies the cost they pay at the pump.

It's not a question of taste, it is one of practicality.

Larapink

05-04-08, 23:12

I agree with you. Here in the UK we have even worse prices. It costs about £1.08 a liter, which is a heck of a lot. One of the main reasons why the prices are so steep is because of all the government taxes. They seem to get a kick out of squeezing every last penny out of us in the name "going green".
You seem to know alot about petrol and your only 14! :p. Only joking :hug: Well yeah I agree with what you have said here.

Gregori

05-04-08, 23:31

Instability in the middle east can't be helping those prices. From the Iraq Occupation to Afghanistan to the constant threats against Iran and the recent war in the Lebanon.

Oil corporations are doing pretty well out of this situation. The lower the supply, the higher the price etc etc

I hope we get away from the oil soon enough anyway. If I can avoid using a car in the future, I will.

USP

05-04-08, 23:33

It's not a question of taste, it is one of practicality.

But, again, practicality is subjective.

Just to qualify myself, I am not an "oil lover". I'm studying mechanical engineering so I can open a firm dedicated to efficient lightweight automobiles. There is no reason why one can't have both. See the Tesla roadster: http://www.teslamotors.com/

LaraLuvrrr

06-04-08, 04:28

On my walk this morning, guess what I saw at the local gas station.

$3.66 for a gallon of regular. :mad:

I just paid like close to 3.99 per gallon filling my tank. Thank God I have a fuel efficient Toyota Corolla! lol:D

andromeda_eats

06-04-08, 05:34

a few months ago my friend went to Iran and said people were complaining about petrol spiking to 30c a gallon over there.

Cochrane

06-04-08, 06:56

Seems subjective, don't you think?
Some people, such as myself, see it as a form of entertainment. If it is "just a method of transportation" then certainly the market would reflect that and Porsche, Audi, etc. would all go out of business as people demanded more Priuses (Priusi?).

The market will reflect it in time, as gas prices increase. Taste is irrelevant when you can't afford it.

The Tesla may seem like an alternative, and maybe it is, but it isn't a mass market replacement for all the "entertainment" cars out there. It's too expensive and it's manufacturer is too small a company for that. Sure, it's an option for some, and if you can afford it, why not? But for the vast majority of people, the subjective views on what is practical are going to radically shift if the gas price keeps doing what it is doing.

Mad Tony

20-05-08, 20:01

Thought I'd revive that thread since it's not that old.

As a lot of you probably know, oil prices hit $129 a gallon today, which is the highest ever. What I want to know is, what's with the sudden oil price hike in the last year?

I pass a gas station on my way to school and I've been watching it closely recently and the price goes up by a pence almost every week. What is going on?

But check out this little picture

http://www.1980.be/stuff/gasprices.jpg
Why are we paying so much here in the UK?

Gregori

20-05-08, 20:05

notice on the graph how the oil rises in price right after 2003 and keeps climbing...

Mad Tony

20-05-08, 20:08

notice on the graph how the oil rises in price right after 2003 and keeps climbing...Obviously. But the oil has risen by about $30 a barrel just in the first five months of this year alone!

MrBear

20-05-08, 20:13

Yes, it's somewhat disturbing.. I guess some people will have to open their eyes to public transport sometime soon :)

Mr. Ben (or someone else), about that picture you posted (not the graph), is that dollars per what, gallon? If so, how many litres is a gallon? 3 or 4 or something?

Mad Tony

20-05-08, 20:15

Yes, it's somewhat disturbing.. I guess some people will have to open their eyes to public transport sometime soon :)

Mr. Ben (or someone else), about that picture you posted (not the graph), is that dollars per what, gallon? If so, how many litres is a gallon? 3 or 4 or something?It's basically just what the gas prices are in US dollars and gallons. So for example, if the US had our gas prices, they'd be paying over $6.50 a gallon.
And yes, I think a gallon is about 4 liters.
Bear in mind though, we have outrageous taxes here, so a lot of that price is just government tax.

Apparently, China is buying more than they need at the moment because they have the upcoming Olympics. Perhaps once the Olympics is over oil prices will become more stable?
Oh, and don't forget about the currently weak US dollar, which will hopefully rebound soon. I'm not quite sure how that affects the oil prices, but I know that it does from various news reports that I've read. I can't imagine these oil prices will continue to rise as steeply as they have been recently.

It is interesting seeing you graph of fuel price, though I do belive they do not tell the whole story.

In the UK and many EU countries you seem to get slaughtered with massive fuel tax, where people in other parts of the world would not accept such downright theft from their goverment in the name of 'green'. But at least at present you can afford to buy and run a car.

Take Singapore for instance, my cousin has a car, he is in the minority, as to be able to buy a car, you need to pay a massive sum to the Goverment just for the right to buy one, due the the island being so small. Then you have to pay a nonsence price, maybe around double the price of the same car in Europe. This is to stop private transportation.

It is a worrying trend where world goverments are trying to stop the freedom of movement of private transportation.

So you better enjoy it now, because unless people fight back, you will soon be on the bus, train, or rickshaw :D

Inkheart

20-05-08, 22:42

I agree with you. Here in the UK we have even worse prices. It costs about £1.08 a liter, which is a heck of a lot.

Yep. I'm learning to drive at the moment, and at this rate, I doubt I'll be able to afford to pay for petrol when I do get a car. And apparently, it's been predicted to keep increasing to £1.50 a liter this time next year.

Paul H

20-05-08, 22:43

Why are we paying so much here in the UK?

Because the world's greediest government knows that the mug Brits will put up with the world's highest fuel taxes.

Nothing to do with the oil companies or the Arabs or any of the other reasons Brown and his gang trot out. There is no reason whatsoever why fuel should be more expensive in Britain than anywhere else in Europe, except that the public let the Government get away with it.

Same with illegal wars, attacks on civil liberties, cash for honours and so many more outrageous examples of corruption and official cover ups. The British just sit back and take it and keep voting the same old crooks back into office.

Natey168

20-05-08, 22:50

I just went by the gas station in town, and regular is $3.95. >_<

SamReeves

20-05-08, 23:01

$3.97 is what I got today. $40 fill up for the U.S.S. Explorer. :(

Sheesh, 79¢ in Kuwait City. Isn't that ammunition enough to drill for more crude? I've definitely had enough of the crazy prices.

Mad Tony

21-05-08, 14:50

So it's official, oil has reached $130 a barrel.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7412327.stm

Although something about this article confuses me:

Meanwhile, oil for delivery in 2016 was approaching $140 - suggesting that this is the price firms expect to be paying in eight years' time.

So do this mean that firms are expecting to pay only $10 a barrel more in eight years time?

Gregori

21-05-08, 14:53

$3.97 is what I got today. $40 fill up for the U.S.S. Explorer. :(

Sheesh, 79¢ in Kuwait City. Isn't that ammunition enough to drill for more crude? I've definitely had enough of the crazy prices.

they own the olil, so they subsidize it in the middle east for local consumption

the oil companies like how it is at the moment - they are not going to drill for a bunch of oil that will lower prices and push down their bottom line. all the people in the current government have big ties to oil corporations!!

TheStoryteller

21-05-08, 15:14

On my walk this morning, guess what I saw at the local gas station.

$3.66 for a gallon of regular. :mad:

When is enough, enough? The United States has not had one single major refinery built in the last 30 years. The U.S. has not launched any major oil exploration in the last two decades. As an American taxpaying and pro-business consumer, I am mad as hell. Our Congress is brainwashed on going green at the expense of the American economy. I'm all for alternative energy methods, but they should be implemented when they are ready for the masses. At the moment they are not. So we sit in the doo loop of importing oil from the Middle East and South America. Not the greatest when you consider it's dollars to terror or communism. So dang it it's time to drill some more. The enviromentalist lobby can go pound salt. Who knows? Boston Tea Party #2 could be about fuel and the high price of it.

since the price is nearly double as high in my country I have NO idea what you are talking about.

but M-A-Y-B-E some billion barrels of fuel have been used up for military adventures of the US armed forces...and the minority of greens in your country probably where opposed to it - but no one listened :vlol:

Lara's home

21-05-08, 20:23

We're drying up all the oil in the world, and the less oil we have, the more expensive it's gonna be.
Prepare for the stone age!

But seriously. It takes millions of years to produce oil, and we are using it fast.

Cochrane

21-05-08, 20:39

$3.97 is what I got today. $40 fill up for the U.S.S. Explorer. :(

Sheesh, 79¢ in Kuwait City. Isn't that ammunition enough to drill for more crude? I've definitely had enough of the crazy prices.

Just out of curiosity, how far does your car go between refueling in normal usage? Because $40 to fill it up once doesn't sound like a lot to me, really.

Mad Tony

21-05-08, 20:44

Looks like it reached $132 in the last few hours :eek:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7412327.stm

So that's a $3 rise in a day!? What the hell is going on?
Personally I think the oil companies are doing it deliberately. Surely if all these price rises were due to depletion of oil reserves then the price would have been going up steadily over the years, not shooting up like it has done recently.

Maximum range (based on a 17.5 gallon tank) is about 360 miles highway, and 332 city.

knightgames

22-05-08, 05:27

We're drying up all the oil in the world, and the less oil we have, the more expensive it's gonna be.
Prepare for the stone age!

But seriously. It takes millions of years to produce oil, and we are using it fast.

While I agree that there is a limit to how much oil is underground, I don't think we are at that point yet. I don't know what it's like where you live, but in the U.S. we're not waiting in line for a fill up.

In the 70's there was an oil shortage. That's what they told us anyway. Lines were blocks long. There were days you could fill up based upon the last digit of your license plate. Police enforsed the lines. Some stations didn't open because of shortages and violence.

That's not happening here now. So in my mind it's not the availability of gas, but the greed of corporations and OPEC. 12 BILLION dollars profit per quarter for EXXON? That's 12 BILLION per 3 months for one company!!!!!!! WTF?

Mad Tony

22-05-08, 06:11

Well, oil just topped $135 a barrel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7414093.stm

This is ridiculous. It all seems like speculation anyway.

Fish.

22-05-08, 08:12

Cheapest over here is US $3.63/gallon. Painful - 8 years ago it was 89¢ a gallon! :eek:

One of the biggest causes of this is the new US employment figures, which show a rise in unemployment. If less people are employed, that means less trucks are gonna be driving around and people are not gonna be able to buy as much because more people are gonna be out of pocket. Ultimately it means less gas is gonna be consumed. Yet this drives the prices up and not down?

Mr.Burns

06-06-08, 22:38

It could go either way. A lack of demand will obviously lower consumption to a point but with less services and goods being purchased, companies will not be earning as much profit. To that point, expenses will have to be cut and that usually means outsourcing or cutting back on labor. Additionally, rising prices for said services and goods will force people to cut back on expenses as well. It's a cycical problem.

Real Life Raider

06-06-08, 23:09

I know I'm kind of bumping this thread

Nevermind. How much is petrol in London atm?

£1.16 a litre in Manchester today :(

Now that the magic 'pound-a-litre' barrier has been broken, I see no end to it.

Mad Tony

06-06-08, 23:11

Nevermind. How much is petrol in London atm?

£1.16 a litre in Manchester today :(

Now that the magic 'pound-a-litre' barrier has been broken, I see no end to it.I saw somewhere at £1.17, although don't forget this was before the huge oil price spike.

A lot of the price is government tax. To be honest I think we should be paying about 75p a liter.

oocladableeblah

06-06-08, 23:12

I walked across the street and the gas was $4.23 I eat lunch and walk back to school and it was at $4.33 omg. I just heard from a newspaper that barrels of oil just went down a little so that's good. I also heard that by the end of the summer gas will be at $7.

Mad Tony

06-06-08, 23:14

I walked across the street and the gas was $4.23 I eat lunch and walk back to school and it was at $4.33 omg. I just heard from a newspaper that barrels of oil just went down a little so that's good. I also heard that by the end of the summer gas will be at $7.Nah, oil prices haven't gone down since the huge rise. I also seriously doubt you'll be paying $7 at the end of summer. Maybe $5, but that's it.

oocladableeblah

06-06-08, 23:15

Nah, oil prices haven't gone down since the huge rise. I also seriously doubt you'll be paying $7 at the end of summer. Maybe $5, but that's it.
I'm just repeating what my teacher said when he read the newspaper, but the lunch things is true.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080606/tts-commodities-energy-oil-price-1564f99.htmlIt's not just that. But again, that's speculation and that's what annoys me. Fair enough, if there had been some major disruption to oil supplies then I wouldn't be so ****ed off.

Real Life Raider

06-06-08, 23:22

Oh don't worry, the American angle is still involved

"If Iran continues its nuclear weapons program, we will attack it," Mofaz told the daily, stressing that such an operation could only be conducted with US support

Mad Tony

06-06-08, 23:22

Oh don't worry, the American angle is still involvedAmerican angle?

Cochrane

06-06-08, 23:26

I think it's fair to say that oil prices, and gas prices in particular, have lost all connection to reality.

That being said, I don't think the general oil price is going to go down anytime soon. I'm watching the prices of some other stuff, such as copper, and the price for that has quadrupled since 2003. It's crazy. A huge part of the reason for that is that China is buying just about anything it can to feed it's overheating industry. I guess that oil is similar.

Well, the tension in the middle east is partly why the oil prices have gone up. However, ultimately, it's mainly the speculators.

Cochrane

06-06-08, 23:41

But it mentioned China's demand as well! I win! :D

The current situation in the near/middle east (what is the american "middle" east is the german "Naher Osten" i.e. "near east", due to us being east of the US) is, of course, a problem, and will likely continue to be so. That the oil price goes up in such a situation is normal and reasonable. However, the oil price also goes up when any minister of any country whose name starts with I says something, or whenever people find out that there's sand in the desert. Consequently, I don't think the current oil price is a reflection of a realistic risk assessment done by experts in the field for the oil traders, but rather just plain panic.

kooky

06-06-08, 23:42

The gas prices are bad where I live to, gas cost like $3 - $4 a gallon! :hea: I watched on TV one time, it said that Saudis only have to pay 10 - 50 cents a gallon for their gas.

Mad Tony

06-06-08, 23:43

But it mentioned China's demand as well! I win! :D

The current situation in the near/middle east (what is the american "middle" east is the german "Naher Osten" i.e. "near east", due to us being east of the US) is, of course, a problem, and will likely continue to be so. That the oil price goes up in such a situation is normal and reasonable. However, the oil price also goes up when any minister of any country whose name starts with I says something, or whenever people find out that there's sand in the desert. Consequently, I don't think the current oil price is a reflection of a realistic risk assessment done by experts in the field for the oil traders, but rather just plain panic.Exactly. I completely agree. And that's exactly why we've seen such a sharp increase in oil prices in the last year. It isn't because of supply and demand, otherwise it wouldn't be so steep and sudden.

@kooky: It's not a surprise though. They have the oil hence why they pay such low prices.

Mr.Burns

06-06-08, 23:50

Demand has outstripped supply. It's not likely to change any time soon.

tlr online

06-06-08, 23:52

On my walk this morning, guess what I saw at the local gas station.

$3.66 for a gallon of regular. :mad:

When is enough, enough? The United States has not had one single major refinery built in the last 30 years. The U.S. has not launched any major oil exploration in the last two decades. As an American taxpaying and pro-business consumer, I am mad as hell. Our Congress is brainwashed on going green at the expense of the American economy. I'm all for alternative energy methods, but they should be implemented when they are ready for the masses. At the moment they are not. So we sit in the doo loop of importing oil from the Middle East and South America. Not the greatest when you consider it's dollars to terror or communism. So dang it it's time to drill some more. The enviromentalist lobby can go pound salt. Who knows? Boston Tea Party #2 could be about fuel and the high price of it.

1.17 for a litre of fuel over here. When are we gonna start investing in alternative methods of energy. :(

Mr.Burns

06-06-08, 23:54

Actually, Canada has one of the largest oil reserves in the world and the US military is looking into using coal to extract and create an artificial fuel source for their fleet.

Real Life Raider

06-06-08, 23:57

1.17 for a litre of fuel over here. When are we gonna start investing in alternative methods of energy.

But not biofuels eh?

Don't forget there's a food shortage too. :(

tampi

07-06-08, 00:02

I'm seriously concerned about what is doing all this crisis with the Euribor. (http://www.euribor.com.es/) I am paying a mortgage suffocating :mad::(

Mad Tony

07-06-08, 08:52

Don't forget there's a food shortage too. :(Not in the UK there isn't. The prices are just really high.

SamReeves

07-06-08, 16:46

DRILL DRILL DRILL!

It's up to $4.38 a gallon around the corner from me. Let's get that California and Alaska crude going…

Mad Tony

07-06-08, 17:52

Ditto to that Sam. :tmb:
There's probably oil down there that we couldn't get to before.

Hybrid Soldier

07-06-08, 17:55

Actually, Canada has one of the largest oil reserves in the world and the US military is looking into using coal to extract and create an artificial fuel source for their fleet.

:cool:

Thanks to Alberta really. XD

Cochrane

07-06-08, 19:51

Drilling is not a short-term solution. Finding the oil and setting up the drilling (and pumping, which is kind of important) facilities all takes time. In addition, it won't solve the problem that the US have a lack of modern refineries, which is one of the reason why prices are as they are. Building new refineries will take even more time.

I would guess that if you said "start drilling now", it would not have a significant effect on oil and gas prices before 2010, probably much later.

There are also the well-known ecological problems, but it seems some people don't believe in such things as an "environment", so I won't even start with that.

If you want to spend money to lower gas prices, now that's a good idea and I'm with you there, just look how to distribute it intelligently. As an example, practically none of North America's mainline railroads are electrified. The world's biggest consumer of crude oil (unless the US Navy is in a full war deployment) is the Burlington Northern Santa Fe railroad. If even half of the american railroad lines were electrified, I'm certain gas prices would already drop.

There's also the issue that public transportation is not on the levels it could be. More buses and trains means more people carried for the same amount of fuel. Of course there are wide areas in the US where good public transportation is just not feasible due to the distances and low amount of people per area, but most people live in cities of some size, and public transportation there can be improved and would help to reduce oil consumption.

The advantage to doing things like that is that it will also continue to work once the oil price rises again (if you think drilling in Alaska will constantly lower oil prices, I'd really love to see your reasoning) and even once oil becomes too expensive to be used for fuel.

irjudd

07-06-08, 20:19

$3.68 today. Meh, you just pay it and go about your business, and buy a little less caviar that week. There isn't much else you can do about it.

Mr.Burns

07-06-08, 20:51

Thank you Cochrane :tmb: You know I've been going on about this for a while now.

So, drilling eh? Alright, let's look at some facts.

There are two major oil finds in the US currently:

The Bakken formation which stretches from North Dakota,Montana and into Saskatchewan. Estimated known reserves: 3-4.3 billion barrels of oil.

The Alaskan Wildlife Reserves: 4.3 to 11.8 billion barrels of oil. We'll go with the mean value of 7.7 billion barrels of oil.

Current US daily consumption of oil in barrels: 20.7 million.

Now assuming that the Alaskan oil reserves could produce 2 million barrels a day, taking into account the current US daily demand for oil and assuming that Alaska could keep producing at 2 million barrels a day without any sabotage, drops in production, or mechanical breakdowns, there is enough oil to supply the US for 10.5 years.

Keep in mind that is at 2 million barrels a day in production when the US is consuming at a rate of 20.7 million barrels a day. Given that, the Alaskan Oil Reserves wouldn't make much of a dent.

The Bakken Formation: We'll say 4.3 billion to be nice.

4.3 billion with an estimated 2 million barrels a day in production equates to a supply of roughly:5.9 years. Again, assuming no drop production levels.

Both of these reserves are light crude oil to a certain extent. Alberta has oil sands which is recoverable but not nearly as cheaply as light sweet or brent crude oil.

So, to those that say: DRILL DRILL DRILL!!!!!

To what end? If there was cheap sources of oil, why would we be willing to drill in areas that are barely hospitable for human life, or so far deep beneath the ocean floor that just to set up the infrastructure would take years and cost billions of dollars? Besides, with the basic math, it's shown that the two major reserves in the US won't be enough to make a dent in our gas prices. We're out of cheap oil. It's time the US finally faced facts.

$3.68 today. Meh, you just pay it and go about your business, and buy a little less caviar that week. There isn't much else you can do about it.

Over $7.20 here. Had to cut the caviar right back. Bread and water for those of us doing 2 to 3 tanks a week!
(And our dollar is abour .95% of the US)

spikejones

08-06-08, 01:13

an interesting quote from the beginning of the movie Kingdom:

"Those who control the prices of oil hold the rest of the world hostage"

Real Life Raider

13-06-08, 23:48

Pain at the Airport too.....

The US airline industry is set to crash as record oil prices threaten to push several carriers into bankruptcy, threatening "our American way of life," an industry study said Friday.

"As a consequence of the skyrocketing price of oil, the US commercial aviation industry is in full-blown crisis and heading toward a catastrophe," said a study issued by AirlineForecasts and the Business Travel Coalition.

At current oil prices near 130 dollars a barrel, several large and small US airlines will default on their obligations to creditors, beginning at end-2008 and early 2009, the study said.

The grim industry snapshot comes as US airlines cut fleets, jobs and capacity and add fees as they struggle with spiraling jet fuel costs and a weak domestic economy.

On Thursday, United Airlines and US Airways announced they would start charging 15 dollars for the first checked bag. Both carriers this month became the latest to try downsizing to survive the fuel crisis.