Thanks to the University of Cambridge I was able to find my Brownson family in the Earl's colne records, and I did read what they said about the documents but I am not sure I totally understand.

When my ancestors surrendered their right they were actually reinforcing it according to the Earl Colne site, and then the rent rolls were where they were paying for it.

So is it kind of like a lifelong lease, since it will mention until the death of so and so, their spouse and thier son?

If they rented a home on a Croft where they called Crofters?

Since they left wills, were they a step above peasants? I know they weren't of a high class, their wills indicate that.

Thanks

Geoffers

03-02-2010, 8:04 PM

To get an idea of the terms in context - is this the site you have viewed - Cambridge University - Earls Colne (http://linux02.lib.cam.ac.uk/earlscolne//)

If so, what bit have you been looking at?

shewhoseeks

03-02-2010, 9:28 PM

Yes, I have been tracing the family through the records. Their are records on the rent rolls and then Manor Court Roll records where the language is as such...there are similar for several folks..

[BColne Priory Manor Court Rolls (ERO D/DPr41 Abstract)
12.9.24Eliz1 (Wednesday 12 September 1582)
document 53902651
Jn Brownson on a grant from the lord to a piece of the waste containing 17p near Chalkney Croft between the queen's highway east and a piece of land called Chiffyn on the west one head thereof abuts upon the queen's highway upon which the said Jn has built a cottage to hold to the said Jn and his heirs in fee remainder to Joan his wife for life remainder to Roger his son for life by the rent of 4d[/B]

Davran

03-02-2010, 10:29 PM

To get an idea of the terms in context - is this the site you have viewed - Cambridge University - Earls Colne (http://linux02.lib.cam.ac.uk/earlscolne//)

If so, what bit have you been looking at?

What a fantastic online resource! If only other places had the same. I'm really envious.

Geoffers

03-02-2010, 10:52 PM

If they rented a home on a Croft were they called Crofters?

Not in this part of the world. In the example you have given land which was held was only near to Chalney Croft.

then the rent rolls were where they were paying for it.

rent rolls would merely be where the rental was recorded.

Jn Brownson on a grant from the lord....has built a cottage to hold to the said Jn and his heirs in fee remainder to Joan his wife for life remainder to Roger his son for life by the rent of 4d

We are now used to either owning the freehold of a property, or renting (leasehold); things used to be more complicated.........

Jn BROWNSON has been granted the right to occupy land owned (or held) by the Lord of the Manor.

The grant of this land has been noted by the Manor Court in its records.

The agreement appears to show that Jn BROWNSON could hold the land for the period of his life. On his death his wife Joan could be admitted by the court as being the new holder of the land. She in turn could pass it onto their son, Roger.

Jn BROWNSON was not the owner of the land - he paid a rent.

The details show a form of tenancy called 'copyhold'. Here, the fact that someone was granted the right to occupy land (by 1582 this would be on payment of rent) was recorded in the manor court roll; the tenant was given a copy of the document - which led to the name for this type of tenure 'copyhold'

As long as the tenant continued to comply with the conditions of the tenancy (types of conditions varied over centuries) he was secure in the property - when he died he had the right to bequeath the property. In this case when Jn BROWNSON died, the property was surrendered to the Lord of the Manor, and it was understood that the widow Joan BROWNSON would then appear before the court within a set period of time, pay a fine and be admitted to the copyhold. When she died, the same process would be followed by the son, Roger.

Looking at the site, it would seem that Joan, the wife died first, then John senior popped his clogs in 1622 the right to beqeauth the land was shown by 'a copy of the roll' and Roger was granted seisin (http://linux02.lib.cam.ac.uk/earlscolne//cprolls1/33800671.htm)(possession) on condition that he make no waste thereupon, that he paid a fine and swore fealty (oath of allegiance).

shewhoseeks

03-02-2010, 11:34 PM

that makes perfect sense. In 1665 after the death of Robert's son's wife, no one was left in England to lay claim to the copyhold, they were in the States, they published a notice three times and the Home, Humphries House went to another person. Cornelius had named his brothers, sisters and two cousins (actually neices I think) as heirs after his wife. I believe if I am not mistaken the reason Cornelius actually "inherited" was that his elder brothers and his sister were already in Conneticut. There is an "expert" on the family who I don't think understands this stuff.

Geoffers

04-02-2010, 12:08 AM

The web-site you have found for this parish looks to be a really useful and interesting resource, I'm sure that you'll get a lot out of it. I see there is a reference section to old words and terms with which you may not be familiar; but still if you get stuck with anything using it, please do ask and we'll see what we can do to help.

If you do find other things which baffle you, just let us know what it is and the context - the wording you included in the third post on this thread helped to work out what sort of record it was.