Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue.

"You are working on the premise of duality," the Muslim explains.

"That for example there is life and then there's death;

a good God and a bad God.

You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure.

Sir, science cannot even explain a thought.

It uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen,

much less fully understood them.

To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist

as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it."

The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a

neighbor who has been reading it.

"Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts,

professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?"

"Of course there is, now look..."

"Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality.

Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice.

Is there such a thing as evil?"

The Muslim pauses. "Isn't evil the absence of good?"

The professor's face has turned an alarming color.

He is so angry he is temporarily speechless.

The Muslim continues.

"If there is evil in the world, professor, and we all agree there is,

then God, if he exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil.

What is that work, God is accomplishing?

Islam tells us it is to see if each one of us will choose good over evil."

The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't view

this matter as having anything to do with any choice;

as a realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other

theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not observable."

"I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this world

is probably one of the most observable phenomena going," the Muslim replies.

"Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week!

Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man,

yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his

student a silent, stony stare.

"Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution

at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor,

are you not teaching your opinion, sir?

Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?"

"I will overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion.

Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.

"So you don't accept God's moral code to do what is righteous?"

"I believe in what is - that's science!"

"Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's face splits into a grin.

"Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of observed phenomena.

Science too is a premise which is flawed..."

"SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the professor splutters.

The class is in uproar.

The Muslim remains standing until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student,

may I give you an example of what I mean?"

The professor wisely keeps silent. The Muslim looks around the room.

"Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen air, Oxygen,

molecules, atoms, the professor's brain?"

The class breaks out in laughter.

The Muslim points towards his elderly, crumbling tutor.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain...

felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain?"

No one appears to have done so. The Muslim shakes his head sadly.

"It appears no-one here has had any sensory perception of the

professor's brain whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of

empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science,

I DECLARE that the professor has no brain."

Al Haq (The Truth)

In regards to Sclorch?s post last night, which I read before going to bed, I am going to attempt to explain why we believe, and what happens after we embrace Allah.

I'd really like to know what a believer experiences. If it would change my views, then aren't you doing yourself a disservice by witholding this information?

While none of the physical senses we are given in the world can detect God, there is an inner nature within all humans that incline certain people to seek refuge in Allah. According to Islam, Allah guides only whom He wills into the truth, while the others are considered unworthy of being guided for obvious reasons. From my personal experience, I did not experience God until this past year when I embraced Islam. I was raised a Christian in the United Church as a child, but I never considered myself Christian because I didn?t believe in it, and I came to hate it for awhile in my early teens when I was very anti-religion. While it?s difficult to explain in words what believers experience, it can be described as true peace, uncomparable to any other state of mind that exists. I approached God by embracing His mercy for one thing. In other words, believers experience the truth. They see the truth with their inner nature, it's indescribable.

Why did I convert to Islam? I was interested in the religion, and on a mushroom trip it was almost as if Allah had decided to guide me into the truth immediately. I describe it literally as a revelation, or a miracle from Allah that guides those who listen to their inner nature. Now, what I experienced on mushrooms occurred about seven times since, the revelation exactly the same, all were on high dose non-game trips, and the presence of God existed throughout these perils, external from me. There is also prayer. When a believer remembers Allah, the more the better, the more at peace he will be. Have you ever seen a Christian cry with joy? Or on CNN, during the last Hajj, an old woman was shown praying, crying softly. These people are experiencing Allah.

When someone believes in Allah and His Messengers, God allows them to see the truth with their souls. This is a miracle experienced by every believer, and this is why people of deen are preachy, steadfast in belief and prayer. The faith is not blind, and because of this, a very very large portion of the globe are either Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. The two main faiths that Allah has established as guidance for mankind are Christianity and Islam. Both of these religions are clashing for a specific reason that only Allah knows. Everything in the world today is structured in by Allah so that it is either very easy for a soul to surrender to Allah, or very difficult if they are decieved by shaytaan.

Don't tell me about the AFTERLIFE. I want to know why believing (in Islam) is so necessary in THIS LIFE. How does it change my life for the better? I mean, do I start to feel much happier than I feel now (BTW, I'm pretty happy right now)?

Sclorch, if you were to open your heart to Allah, you would feel more than happy. Like I said before, it is a feeling of true peace that can?t be compared to any other feeling. Why is Islam so necessary? Besides the aspect of the afterlife, the lifestyle of surrendering to Allah is extremely beneficial in the world. Allah guides believers with ease throughout life, with small tests on the road, but never the hardship the disbelievers go through in life (this is how the kufr only benefit the believers by rejecting Allah). You would never look back if you experienced what believers experience. You don?t just blindly believe, but with belief comes the revealed truth. You see everything for what it is. This is very hard to actually describe in words.

infidelGOD wrote:hehe, now you know how it feels.

Maybe. I can tolerate a Christian telling me I'm going to hell. I understand profoundly they are experiencing Allah, and that is why they remain Christians.

Traveller wrote: ok then! ALLAH the all merciful forgives all AS LONG AS YOU BELIEVE, yes? thus those who BELIEVE in allah and go on to slaughter as many people as they can before committing suicide will be forgiven and go to paradise, while those who try to live good lives and do not believe will burn in the fires of hell?

The 9/11 hijackers are surely doomed to Jahannum. Yes, they did believe, but they all committed suicide, so therefore Paradise is forbidden to them. They also killed other Muslims, along with other women, children, and non-combatants. If you kill unjustly in Islam, the family members of the victim must forgive you first before Allah forgives you for the murder. While murdering carries a heavy punishment in the next life, the act does not forbid Paradise to someone. Mind you, it carries a very long sentence in Hell.

Islam is very hard, if not impossible to contradict. Unlike Christianity where science often conflicts with the scripture, science is supported within Islam.

I hate to burst your bubble but unless your friend authored it before computers existed because that sorry has been going around for the past 45 years and instead of "Muslim" I have seen "Christianity" , "Mormon", etc... That is just a template story to use against athiests. I am curious why you feel the need to force your view's on everybody so hard? Why cant you just accept the fact that there are lots of religions out there and everybody is entitled to believe what they want?

at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor,

are you not teaching your opinion, sir?"

Er. Darwin did observe a form of evolution didn't he...?

--------------------?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

I hate to burst your bubble but unless your friend authored it before computers existed because that sorry has been going around for the past 45 years and instead of "Muslim" I have seen "Christianity" , "Mormon", etc... That is just a template story to use against athiests. I am curious why you feel the need to force your view's on everybody so hard? Why cant you just accept the fact that there are lots of religions out there and everybody is entitled to believe what they want?

I think that for the most part people object not to your belief in God or even that your a Muslim, but rather to your assertion that only certain religions are genuine and all others are delusion.

actually I don't object to any of the above. I object to him because he is ALWAYS RIGHT. no matter what he is ALWAYS RIGHT.

In other words, believers experience the truth.

When someone believes in Allah and His Messengers, God allows them to see the truth with their souls. This is a miracle experienced by every believer,

Sclorch, if you were to open your heart to Allah, you would feel more than happy.

Islam is very hard, if not impossible to contradict

all these statements are not worded as "opinion" They are hard facts as reported by god/ allah/ muhammed/ Buddha's navel lint/ etc.

This is why I object to his posts. Not because he is right or wrong, or that he is a recently converted muslim, but because he is reporting his opinion's as FACTS. everyone else is WRONG!!!!! Praise allah

--------------------"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.

In reply to: I can tolerate a Christian telling me I'm going to hell. I understand profoundly they are experiencing Allah, and that is why they remain Christians.

This is the very point I was edging towards. Obviously you can accept the fact that there is some sort of higher power, and that sometimes this higher power is expressed differently then you chose to express it. What I still don't understand though is why you insist that your way of exprssing the devine is the 'right' way. And by that I'm referring to your use of terms like kufr, and what have you. The way you've been talking it almost seems like one must believe in 'Allah' and praise his name on high in order to be saved. What does it matter if someone says Allah, or God, or any other name for that matter? They're all just titles used to represent the same entity as far as I'm concerned. People like me aren't religious, not because we aren't spiritual, but because we refuse to get caught up in the whole categoralizationism of religions. So now I ask you this - if someone is a truely spiritual being and is continually striving to make this world a better place for all in it, but never once subjects himself to labeling the devine spiritual pressence that guides his life's actions, does that mean he is condemnd to an eternal life in Hell? Cause the way you're talking, it seems to me like you'd think he would be, simply because he doesn't acknowledge 'Allah' as his savior.

--------------------

"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot

I did not mean to sound snapy, even though I totaly sounded like but I am really interested in your level of commitment to your religion. I would love to elaborate on this a bit but super is ready, I will be back in about 2 hours to continue Talk to ya l8tr

Zahid, I wanted only YOUR words (that argument is piss-poor anyways? that?s what we call a Straw Man argument), so next time leave the quotes OUT.------------------------------

I?ve heard your words. You are incredibly rigid in your beliefs and, as such, not truly open to my points. I?d rather not attempt to argue this rigidity out of you, because if that?s your thing? then that?s just fine. It?s when 95% of your posts force this rigid doctrine down the rest of us posters? throats. I understand that it is a fundamental tenet of your personal belief system to encourage us ?kufr? or ?sinners? or whatever to take the ?true path?.

Why is Islam so necessary? Besides the aspect of the afterlife, the lifestyle of surrendering to Allah is extremely beneficial in the world. Allah guides believers with ease throughout life, with small tests on the road, but never the hardship the disbelievers go through in life (this is how the kufr only benefit the believers by rejecting Allah).

Is it so hard to understand that some of us ?disbelievers? appreciate the hardships in life?I am not a pleasure-seeking being? I realize that the good comes with the bad. It?s a balance that I?ve realized and have grown accustomed to. I wouldn?t want an easy life that didn?t challenge me but with small tests. BTW, your use of non-specific wording is a common dodging tactic? what non-specific wording, you say? ?Ease? and ?hardship? are quite vague. They seem to say everything? but they really say nothing (horoscopes come to mind).

You would never look back if you experienced what believers experience. You don?t just blindly believe, but with belief comes the revealed truth. You see everything for what it is. This is very hard to actually describe in words.

Another dodge? I asked a question, I get the equivalent of ?you have to experience it in order to understand it?. So, if I never experience it? is that MY fault? I don?t think so. I was a firm believer in Christianity for most of my life. I had NEVER had a religious experience that came close to the spiritual assault on my brain imparted by philosophy and entheogen use. I have no use for bliss. Bliss allows the mind to quit searching (the main reason why I refuse to take MDMA). I?d rather be humbled by hardship any day.

You (and every other religious person) only heard part of Allah?s message? Allah told me that s/he was in the heart of all people with an open mind. Allah told me that heaven is the peace felt when one grabs life by the horns and calms the ego bull with the hope found in uncertainty. Allah told me all this and I listened. The truth is not hidden as many would lead us to believe? no, the truth is that the only knowable absolute is uncertainty itself.

1) from what you've said it sounds like Allah is a personal thing..and that he must be revealed to you...perhaps during a mushroom trip, as in your case. so, how are you supposed to convert people over the internet?

2) your story and everything you said were rather unconvincing. even if i accept your feeble argument that there is a god why should i accept that "Allah" is god and that i shouldn't eat pig meat?

3) don't you realize that all religions are cultural constructs built upon the basic human desire for transcendence. no religion is right, but all religions are reaching for the same thing. we are animals with conscious minds. we are stuck on the razor's edge between animal and god, and we are always reaching higher...grasping for the heavens.

4) religion is for dopes. pursue your spirituality on a solo basis and share what you "learn". stop trying to force your crummy dogma on others. it's boring and trite.

This is the very point I was edging towards. Obviously you can accept the fact that there is some sort of higher power, and that sometimes this higher power is expressed differently then you chose to express it. What I still don't understand though is why you insist that your way of exprssing the devine is the 'right' way. And by that I'm referring to your use of terms like kufr, and what have you. The way you've been talking it almost seems like one must believe in 'Allah' and praise his name on high in order to be saved. What does it matter if someone says Allah, or God, or any other name for that matter? They're all just titles used to represent the same entity as far as I'm concerned. People like me aren't religious, not because we aren't spiritual, but because we refuse to get caught up in the whole categoralizationism of religions. So now I ask you this - if someone is a truely spiritual being and is continually striving to make this world a better place for all in it, but never once subjects himself to labeling the devine spiritual pressence that guides his life's actions, does that mean he is condemnd to an eternal life in Hell? Cause the way you're talking, it seems to me like you'd think he would be, simply because he doesn't acknowledge 'Allah' as his savior.

Because I believe the Qur'an is the infallible word of Allah (Call him God, Yahweh, Dios, there are many languages on earth and thus many ways to spell God. Allah is simply the Arabic word for God), I believe what is written in it. God has mentioned in the Qur'an constantly what defines belief in God, and what defines hypocrisy. When you say you believe in God, or that God is in us all, while you reject Allah's Messengers, that is defined as hypocrisy. You need to repent your sins to get into Paradise. You can't repent in Buddhism, nor can you repent in Hinduism, Paganism, or other forms of nature based mysticism. While some of these practices use the word God, it is a munafiq belief. If you want to believe God exists as some flowing energy in all living things, go right ahead. But this is not belief in God. The desire of shaytaan is deception. The deception could be anything from believing Hinduism is real to believing you can get away with murder. The desire of shaytaan is to make you doubt the existence of Allah by any means. The disbelievers are cursed because they never repent. With belief comes the ability to repent. Don't ever think you're smarter than shaytaan, he has decieved minds like Sigmund Freud, Albert Einstein, Thomas Jefferson, and Tenzin Gyatso.

Please don't ask me why there is a hell, or why Allah punishes disbelievers in it forever. He just does, and He is never unjust in what He does. He created humans with free will. They can pick either good or evil in life. If they recieve no warning of the hereafter, they are ignorant and Paradise is theirs. Today it's different. Nearly the entire world is aware of either Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or all three.

The disbelievers will likely disbelieve until their grave, sad to say. When a person is a fetus, an angel asks Allah If it should breath in a blessed soul or an accursed one into the fetus. God then decides if the new fetus will become a servent of God or a rebel of God based on what He knows of the future. You still have absolute free will, but Allah knows what your future is, that is all. I'm only hoping some of my posts might strike a note with someone.

I do know how preaching sounds to an unbeliever, but they don't see the truth. They won't believe until it's too late.

Why do I talk from perspective that I'm right you're wrong? Because that is reality. When I decided that Islam was true, Allah showed me what the truth is through an indescribable miracle that every believer experiences.

Why do I talk from perspective that I'm right you're wrong? Because that is reality. When I decided that Islam was true, Allah showed me what the truth is through an indescribable miracle that every believer experiences

Oh My Fucking Unholy Shit On an Ham and Mustard Sammich. I cannot believe I just read that. wow, anyway...

The desire of shaytaan is deception. The deception could be anything from believing Hinduism is real to believing you can get away with murder. The desire of shaytaan is to make you doubt the existence of Allah by any means.

Maybe the desire of shaytaan is to make you believe in allah when shaytaan knows for a fact that muhommad was a schizophrenic...

Imagine for an instant, if shaytaan or My Lord and Master as us satanists call him (LOL) What If Satan has written all these religious books to corrupt feeble minds and make them stop thinking for themselves. Maybe the word of god is the mushroom, or the waterfall, or the insects buzzing and chirping. Maybe these books don't hold the answers you seek but only hold the exact wrong answer to the question. I have used this arguement before and have never been given a satisfactory answer. Remember shataan is the master of lies and deception. If he doesn't want you to see you won't see. And before you reply just ask yourself.

What if?

--------------------"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.

Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

it's ok that you didn't reply to me Zahid. my post was just like all of your posts...propaganda...you can't reply to propaganda except by generating your own propaganda. gibberish mills grind on forever. fools falling into the abyss of time. the clown is laughing. the homeless buddha is smiling. annihilation.