Coefficient and Spells Question

Question to Shadowpriest theorycrafters

Hey guys, I just wanted to ask a question. I have never been the guy that understands every single theorycrafting in the game, nor do I wish to be. I play my class as I play it and I like to think that I do it well.

But for all of us that don't know everything, I have a question to those that do

Might be more people that want to ask this question, but don't dare to. Reading Blue posts about raising the coefficient of different dots/spells etc by for example 0.2 to 0.4, I just wondered: What really IS coefficient? And how does it effect a spell "In real life"? Will a raise in coefficient and the addition of % of crit being related to dot % damage be enough to bring us up to par with the rest of the dps hybrid classes?

Re: Coefficient and Spells Question

For your last question:
Spell power gives ~1.45dps per point (a little above average)
Spell haste gives ~.69dps per point (third-worst of all caster specs)
Spell crit gives ~.82dps per point (better than every warlock spec, frost and arcane mages, and shammies) - only fire mages and doomkin get more for every point of crit. This is one of those crazy WotLK changes that just makes you go ...what?

And in addition to that, we by far suffer the smallest DPS hit if we're not capped.

Re: Coefficient and Spells Question

Originally Posted by lsfreak

And in addition to that, we by far suffer the smallest DPS hit if we're not capped.

That I do not understand, but never mind.

What amount of hit is 1%? Multiply your DPS by 1.5, divide it by the amount of hit per percent. Let us pretend that it is 25 points of hit per % hit. Let us pretend you can kick out 2500 DPS. (mmm, lovely numbers).

I am fairly certain it is less hit than that per % so clearly capping hit is massively more important than any other stat quite quickly. Specifically on bosses. Having 2 gear sets may well prove viable.

One of the reasons I will be slow to upgrade gear will be loss of hit on greens/blues. No resisits is an amazing feeling.

Re: Coefficient and Spells Question

Originally Posted by Ntrails

That I do not understand, but never mind.

What amount of hit is 1%? Multiply your DPS by 1.5, divide it by the amount of hit per percent. Let us pretend that it is 25 points of hit per % hit. Let us pretend you can kick out 2500 DPS. (mmm, lovely numbers).

I am fairly certain it is less hit than that per % so clearly capping hit is massively more important than any other stat quite quickly. Specifically on bosses. Having 2 gear sets may well prove viable.

One of the reasons I will be slow to upgrade gear will be loss of hit on greens/blues. No resisits is an amazing feeling.

Capping hit is crucial, to be sure. It's just that, compared to other classes, we lose the least damage by NOT being capped. The reason is that at most we lose 1 GCD, compared to every other class that loses significantly more (especially mages and druids). In Naxx25 gear, we lose about 38dps at 1% below cap. Compare that with a druid who loses more in the region of 55dps. That's not in any way saying we shouldn't cap, but in the event we're not capped it hurts us less than other classes (an advantage, since not being capped is likely when raiding first starts).

As for numbers, spell power gives ~1.31dps and spell hit ~1.45dps (26.23 rating/%).

Re: Coefficient and Spells Question

1. "What is coefficent"

Coefficent is a mathematical term which is basically another word for percentage, it's a little more complex than that but we don't really need to recite a mathematical lesson. Coefficents in WoW apply to spells as they describe what percentage of spellpower is applied to a given spell.

2. "How does it affect a spell"

The coefficent doesn't so much affect your spells as describe how much of your spellpower affects the given spell. If you have a coefficent of 0.5 for a spell that deals a base of 100 damage and your gear gives you 100 spellpower, that spell will hit for 150 damage (not 200 which would be the base damage + spellpower).

3. Will a raise in coefficient and the addition of % of crit being related to dot % damage be enough to bring us up to par with the rest of the dps hybrid classes?

I don't think you can be this black and white about the change. Spriest dps was too low but I don't feel it was miles behind, but enough behind that some changes were required. I should point out that coefficents are different for each spell and they are usually related to the cast time or duration of their effects. Recently Blizzard decided to double the coefficent related to VT so this change of 0.2 to 0.4 you quote isn't something that applies to VT only. The new SF ability that increases DoT damage equal to your crit chance is something entirely different. What these specific changes mean is that VT will scale incredibly well, so well infact that I expect the coefficent will be nerfed. 0.2 per tick is the standard coefficent, doubling it was overally generous imo. The new SF ability means that crit rating will scale our spells that don't have a chance to crit (as well as the ones that do) which makes the stat a lot more desirable. Early simulationcraft shows that hit>sp>crit>haste which is a change in priority from TBC.

If you really are interested in understanding game mechanics I suggest you start doing a lot of reading. IMO if you take the time to understand things you'll be a 100 times better player than you are now... everytime you think you have mastered something in this game it doesn't take much for you to realise that wasn't actually the case.

Re: Coefficient and Spells Question

Originally Posted by lsfreak

For your last question:
Spell power gives ~1.45dps per point (a little above average)
Spell haste gives ~.69dps per point (third-worst of all caster specs)
Spell crit gives ~.82dps per point (better than every warlock spec, frost and arcane mages, and shammies) - only fire mages and doomkin get more for every point of crit. This is one of those crazy WotLK changes that just makes you go ...what?

And in addition to that, we by far suffer the smallest DPS hit if we're not capped.

Why do people say this type of thing, you know it's not accurate right?
No stat can give you a static dps upgrade without factoring in other synergistic statistic levels! Grr, this type of misinformation is rampant ><

Re: Coefficient and Spells Question

Originally Posted by Implaus

Why do people say this type of thing, you know it's not accurate right?
No stat can give you a static dps upgrade without factoring in other synergistic statistic levels! Grr, this type of misinformation is rampant ><

You're right, I forgot to include it's based on roughly Naxx10 gear. Even using those as bases, though, it's unlikely that one piece of gear will become clearly better than another, even if their DPS contribution shifts.

Re: Coefficient and Spells Question

The least common denominator is that after +hit, spell power is the single biggest stat to boost our DPS. That's not to say that we should stack nothing but spell power as crit and spirit help to boost our longevity on long boss fights or when chain pulling trash. As lsfreak mentioned, each piece of gear on it's own will be less important but it'll be how that one piece of gear fits with the rest of your gear that will make it an upgrade, sidegrade or downgrade.

Re: Coefficient and Spells Question

Originally Posted by Implaus

Why do people say this type of thing, you know it's not accurate right?
No stat can give you a static dps upgrade without factoring in other synergistic statistic levels! Grr, this type of misinformation is rampant ><

That's not entirely correct, the numbers are correct to the gear level which is stipulated for the simulations. As the gear level changes the numbers change, so if you understand the context of the numbers they can be a very useful guide for gear selection.

The best dps spreadsheets and gear guides factor in your existing gear and spit out the ratios for your gear level in any case, if you check out the best raid gear thread at www.shadowpriest.com there is oodles of information which explains the context of the numbers.