Black Nationalists say silly things about Kemet. Saying it proves blacks are a pure race. Those blacks are long gone today's blacks have nothing to do with Eqypt.

Which Blacks are you referring to? There are hundreds of Black African ethnic groups, who are descendants of ancient Africans, and Caribbean and Black Americans, who are descendants of Africans.

If you're talking about Africans who never mixed with non-African groups who have no mixed blood, then I don't think it would be unusual if members of the oldest, living, (isolated)African groups, carries some ancient DNA. Egypt is in Africa, although the physical appearance of modern-day Egyptians, may not reflect many of the ancient Egyptians that were there around the 25th Dynasty, when the Nubian King, King Piye ruled Egypt. Some people, not all, take issue when many Blacks take interest in Egypt. Anyway here is some info from a few sources about the Nubian Kings that ruled Africa during the 25th Dynasty. No conspiracy, just history.

The Black Pharoahs

"An ignored chapter of history tells of a time when kings from deep in Africa conquered ancient Egypt."

and excavators have proven that the people who buildt Egypt (who are still there, not the Arabs) came 'UP' to the region from lower parts of Africa as the Sahara dessert expanded.

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The narrative of Egypt has been 'whitewashed' and people have tried to disconnect it from Africa, but it is Ancient Africa.

* now of course this has opened up a door of further discussion that will take the thread off topic. So I would welcome a discussion in the P&R forum. I started one a few years ago on Egypt.

And this thread is asking for Ancient Roman & Greek influences..But as far as I've seen/heard with Prince for the last 10-15yrs he's been engrossed with ancient Egyptian society/religion etc

1725topp

Reply #49 posted 09/29/17 4:35pm

Thank you!!! I can't believe people still don't know this. Also, before Egypt was one unified country, it was Upper and Lower Egypt; yet, Upper Egypt was in the South, and Lower Egypt was in the North because Upper Egypt meant first and Lower Egpyt meat second as the Nubians from the southern base of the Nile walked into the southern end of Egypt, which was the first part that they developed. Finally, the original name of Egypt is Kemet, which means, "the Land of the Blacks," and it was called this by prominent Greeks, such as Herodotus--the father of Greek History, and Aristotle. In fact, in his discussion of Kemet, Herodotus stated that "there are two great Ethiopian nations, one being in Kemet. He also said, when describing the Kemetians that they "have full lips, woolly hair, and burnt skin." That ain't Brad Pitt he's describing. Yet, I like Aristotle's description of the Kemetians better when he stated: "the Kemetians are very black." He didn't say they were light-skinned, off-white, tan, or high yellow; he said "very black," again, that ain't Brad Pitt.

NorthC

Reply #51 posted 09/30/17 10:06am

Egypt was called "the black land" because of the colour of the soil as opposed to the red earth of the desert.And yes, of course it originated in Africa, North Africa to be exact and north and subsaharan Africa really are different places.

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world

Black Nationalists say silly things about Kemet. Saying it proves blacks are a pure race. Those blacks are long gone today's blacks have nothing to do with Eqypt.

*

Sometimes people should read more than Wikipedia for their information. One, the most fertile soil across the planet--regardless of the region--is black; yet, nowhere else was referred to as "the land of the blacks" or "the black land." So, if fertile black soil is found everywhere, why is only Egypt called “the land of the blacks" or “the black land"? Two, while the land immediately around the Nile River is black after the Nile floods, the soil of Egypt is mostly tan. So, if Egypt would have been named for its color, wouldn't it have been "the land of the tans" or "the tan land"? Three, the ancient Egyptians had only one term they used to name themselves Kmt, literally black or dark. The gods of ancient Egypt were prefixed with kmt, hence Usir (Osiris) name is written Kmwr meaning the Great Black or Great Negro. Aset (Isis) name is prefixed kmt Aset meaning the Black woman. All the other gods Djehuty (Thoth), Nebet-hat (Nepthys), Min etc. all had their names prefixed with kmt. So, were the ancient Egyptians associating their gods with rich dark loamy soil as a prefix? Maybe they were all gods of fertility and rich dark loamy soil which only comes once a year like when the Nile floods? Four, no Afrocentric scholar has ever claimed that the Egyptians remained purely Negroid. By the time the Greeks and later the Romans are visiting and later conquering Egypt, the Egyptian society is probably the most multicultural county that ever existed including Nubian, Asian, Jewish, Greek, and others. So, by the time the Greeks are first traveling to Egypt, the Egyptians had already begun intermingling with the Asians and Jews. However, the evidence still supports that Egypt was most likely founded by Nubian people. Five, I would explain that every male/Y chromosome traces to West Africa, but I can tell by your post that science and facts aren't that important to you.

Except from above link:
"...But a fact that should not miss an objective eye is that, even with all the foreigners who wanted a to take Egypt, none of them went back to their land to build pyramids – not even a hand-sized model. Libyans, Greeks, Persians, Assyrians, Hyksos or Romans… only the Nubians did. The Nubian kings were not foreigners; they established Egypt from the start and tried to restore its culture mostly during the 25th Dynasty.

When the invaders kept coming, they had withdrew into the area of Khartoum and continued this culture there, making them the only rulers of Egypt that built pyramids outside Egypt. More than 100 pyramids have so far been found in Sudan, although smaller to what we have in Egypt which is not more than 80 or thereabouts. Sudan also had more female rulers called Kandake (Candace in Greek) that made historians think at one time if Meroe was purely ruled by women. Egypt only had four female Pharaohs.

Racial minded historians have always tried to see Nubians as an inferior race with no contribution to Egypt. The present-day Arab Egyptians came there with the Jihad that swept out the Romans and Nubians in post-Cleopatra era. Some Coptic Egyptians are still in Alexandrai Egypt but are being made to exist in inferiority, for you have to pay the Jizya tax as a Christian or coptic Egyptian."[Edited 9/30/17 20:18pm]

Ancient Egypt dealt in slavery.
I don't find ancient Egypt as a great source of pride as people would like me to see it as.
Ancient Greece and Rome also dealt in slavery.

Early civilization was also the start of labor issues that have continued to this current day.
The following is the best of ancient Egyptian history.
I'm proud of the following historical fact about ancient Egypt.
World’s First Documented Labor Strike Took Place In Ancient Egypt In The 12th Century BChttps://www.google.com.au...ry-bc/amp/

MessageToEagle.com – For many who worked hard, life in ancient times was often difficult and unfair. Low wages and injustice was common place.

The first labor strike in recorded history took place in the 12th Century, BCE, in Egypt under the rule of Pharaoh, Ramses III. The strike is documented on an ancient papyrus discovered in Egypt.

In the seventh month of the 29th year the workers simply had had enough. One day, all the workers lay down their tools and marched out of the necropolis they were building. According to Ammenakht, their supervisors had no idea where they had gone and they were shocked as they had never seen anything like this before.

.[Edited 9/30/17 23:47pm]

"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.

Ancient Egypt dealt in slavery. I don't find ancient Egypt as a great source of pride as people would like me to see it as. Ancient Greece and Rome also dealt in slavery. Early civilization was also the start of labor issues that have continued to this current day. The following is the best of ancient Egyptian history. I'm proud of the following historical fact about ancient Egypt. World’s First Documented Labor Strike Took Place In Ancient Egypt In The 12th Century BChttps://www.google.com.au...ry-bc/amp/ MessageToEagle.com – For many who worked hard, life in ancient times was often difficult and unfair. Low wages and injustice was common place. The first labor strike in recorded history took place in the 12th Century, BCE, in Egypt under the rule of Pharaoh, Ramses III. The strike is documented on an ancient papyrus discovered in Egypt. In the seventh month of the 29th year the workers simply had had enough. One day, all the workers lay down their tools and marched out of the necropolis they were building. According to Ammenakht, their supervisors had no idea where they had gone and they were shocked as they had never seen anything like this before. . [Edited 9/30/17 23:47pm]

*

Studying the history of Egypt is not so much an issue of pride as it is an issue of truth. No one, whatever side of the debate, has claimed that the ancient Egyptians were perfect people. Most people, on either side of the debate, always discuss what vain, petty, and violent people the ancient Egyptians were. Yet, they still created the first global power and lay the foundation of what civilization came to be, both good and bad. As you cite, in the midst of the bad, there is some good we can learn as well. Yet, the point for most African/Negroid people is that white scholars have worked to erase the contribution of African/Negroid people from the development of human civilization. As such, again, it's about truth moreso than pride. And, yes, it is also about pride, but, regardless of the era one studies, one is going to find one thing that is always true of humans--we are simultaneously capable of the most brilliant intellectual development, awe-inspiring acts of kindness, and incredible acts of evil. That is humanity. Therefore, the study of history is not about remembering the perfect people who came before us but learning that being human is about the daily struggle of flawed beings to be better than their flaws. The problem is that African/Negroid people have rarely been shown to have more than their flaws despite all that African/Negroid people have contributed to the development of global civilization.

Ancient Egypt dealt in slavery. I don't find ancient Egypt as a great source of pride as people would like me to see it as. Ancient Greece and Rome also dealt in slavery. Early civilization was also the start of labor issues that have continued to this current day. The following is the best of ancient Egyptian history. I'm proud of the following historical fact about ancient Egypt. World’s First Documented Labor Strike Took Place In Ancient Egypt In The 12th Century BChttps://www.google.com.au...ry-bc/amp/ MessageToEagle.com – For many who worked hard, life in ancient times was often difficult and unfair. Low wages and injustice was common place. The first labor strike in recorded history took place in the 12th Century, BCE, in Egypt under the rule of Pharaoh, Ramses III. The strike is documented on an ancient papyrus discovered in Egypt. In the seventh month of the 29th year the workers simply had had enough. One day, all the workers lay down their tools and marched out of the necropolis they were building. According to Ammenakht, their supervisors had no idea where they had gone and they were shocked as they had never seen anything like this before. . [Edited 9/30/17 23:47pm]

*

Studying the history of Egypt is not so much an issue of pride as it is an issue of truth. No one, whatever side of the debate, has claimed that the ancient Egyptians were perfect people. Most people, on either side of the debate, always discuss what vain, petty, and violent people the ancient Egyptians were. Yet, they still created the first global power and lay the foundation of what civilization came to be, both good and bad. As you cite, in the midst of the bad, there is some good we can learn as well. Yet, the point for most African/Negroid people is that white scholars have worked to erase the contribution of African/Negroid people from the development of human civilization. As such, again, it's about truth moreso than pride. And, yes, it is also about pride, but, regardless of the era one studies, one is going to find one thing that is always true of humans--we are simultaneously capable of the most brilliant intellectual development, awe-inspiring acts of kindness, and incredible acts of evil. That is humanity. Therefore, the study of history is not about remembering the perfect people who came before us but learning that being human is about the daily struggle of flawed beings to be better than their flaws. The problem is that African/Negroid people have rarely been shown to have more than their flaws despite all that African/Negroid people have contributed to the development of global civilization.

I understand that ancient Egypt is symbolic of black people being responsible for one of the first modern human civilizations/structures that other cultures emulated.
It is held up out of the whole history of African culture as our greatest achievement.
I think African culture is rich and vast and has a lot more to offer than monarchy, slavery and elitism.
The things other cultures picked out, venerated and then emulated.
As you said within this context of ancient Egypt are redeemable aspects such as the start of labor rights. Or perhaps the worlds first union.

.

.[Edited 10/1/17 2:45am]

"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.

Ancient Egypt dealt in slavery. I don't find ancient Egypt as a great source of pride as people would like me to see it as. Ancient Greece and Rome also dealt in slavery. Early civilization was also the start of labor issues that have continued to this current day. The following is the best of ancient Egyptian history. I'm proud of the following historical fact about ancient Egypt. World’s First Documented Labor Strike Took Place In Ancient Egypt In The 12th Century BChttps://www.google.com.au...ry-bc/amp/ MessageToEagle.com – For many who worked hard, life in ancient times was often difficult and unfair. Low wages and injustice was common place. The first labor strike in recorded history took place in the 12th Century, BCE, in Egypt under the rule of Pharaoh, Ramses III. The strike is documented on an ancient papyrus discovered in Egypt. In the seventh month of the 29th year the workers simply had had enough. One day, all the workers lay down their tools and marched out of the necropolis they were building. According to Ammenakht, their supervisors had no idea where they had gone and they were shocked as they had never seen anything like this before. . [Edited 9/30/17 23:47pm]

*

Studying the history of Egypt is not so much an issue of pride as it is an issue of truth. No one, whatever side of the debate, has claimed that the ancient Egyptians were perfect people. Most people, on either side of the debate, always discuss what vain, petty, and violent people the ancient Egyptians were. Yet, they still created the first global power and lay the foundation of what civilization came to be, both good and bad. As you cite, in the midst of the bad, there is some good we can learn as well. Yet, the point for most African/Negroid people is that white scholars have worked to erase the contribution of African/Negroid people from the development of human civilization. As such, again, it's about truth moreso than pride. And, yes, it is also about pride, but, regardless of the era one studies, one is going to find one thing that is always true of humans--we are simultaneously capable of the most brilliant intellectual development, awe-inspiring acts of kindness, and incredible acts of evil. That is humanity. Therefore, the study of history is not about remembering the perfect people who came before us but learning that being human is about the daily struggle of flawed beings to be better than their flaws. The problem is that African/Negroid people have rarely been shown to have more than their flaws despite all that African/Negroid people have contributed to the development of global civilization.

Excellent points and 100% agree with the bolded parts as well. I learned about the existence of Nubia, and their part in Egyptian history later in life. Also found out that there were more pyramids built in Nubia than in Egypt.[Edited 10/1/17 7:27am]

Studying the history of Egypt is not so much an issue of pride as it is an issue of truth. No one, whatever side of the debate, has claimed that the ancient Egyptians were perfect people. Most people, on either side of the debate, always discuss what vain, petty, and violent people the ancient Egyptians were. Yet, they still created the first global power and lay the foundation of what civilization came to be, both good and bad. As you cite, in the midst of the bad, there is some good we can learn as well. Yet, the point for most African/Negroid people is that white scholars have worked to erase the contribution of African/Negroid people from the development of human civilization. As such, again, it's about truth moreso than pride. And, yes, it is also about pride, but, regardless of the era one studies, one is going to find one thing that is always true of humans--we are simultaneously capable of the most brilliant intellectual development, awe-inspiring acts of kindness, and incredible acts of evil. That is humanity. Therefore, the study of history is not about remembering the perfect people who came before us but learning that being human is about the daily struggle of flawed beings to be better than their flaws. The problem is that African/Negroid people have rarely been shown to have more than their flaws despite all that African/Negroid people have contributed to the development of global civilization.

I understand that ancient Egypt is symbolic of black people being responsible for one of the first modern human civilizations/structures that other cultures emulated. It is held up out of the whole history of African culture as our greatest achievement. I think African culture is rich and vast and has a lot more to offer than monarchy, slavery and elitism. The things other cultures picked out, venerated and then emulated. As you said within this context of ancient Egypt are redeemable aspects such as the start of labor rights. Or perhaps the worlds first union. . . [Edited 10/1/17 2:45am]

*

I agree, but ancient Egyptians also expanded and mastered a writing system started by the Ethiopians, and they developed mathematics and medicine. So, they have contributed more than just monarchy, slavery, and elitism. So, as I think we both agree, the goal is to include Egyptian civilization as a part of the African contribution to the world with its failures and successes. Our failure would be to make them deities or merely to demonize them for their human flaws. Do we ignore the contributions of the Gilded Age and the Roaring Twenties because of their excesses? Hopefully, we learn what we always learn, which is, again, history is not about praising perfect people but about learning from flawed people how to be better than our own flaws. As such, I can love and appreciate Booker T. Washington and W. E. B. DuBois even though both men had their flaws. Hell, even though Martin Luther King, Jr., was completely wrong on Black Power and sold out the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Power to obtain favor from President Johnson, does that mean that I don't think he is important to study? The NAACP was completely elitist in their support of Rosa Parks because three other black women had done the same thing she had done, but the NAACP deemed them as not "good models" for the cause. Unfortunately, understanding and navigating flaws is the essence of being human.

Yep, but he was damn sho' half Nubian just like the Egyptians following the First Intermediate Period. I'd think a mutt like you would understand that. Wait, allow me to apologize. I don't know if you are a pure breed or not. Allow me not to be so presumptuous.

1725topp said: I understand that ancient Egypt is symbolic of black people being responsible for one of the first modern human civilizations/structures that other cultures emulated. It is held up out of the whole history of African culture as our greatest achievement. I think African culture is rich and vast and has a lot more to offer than monarchy, slavery and elitism. The things other cultures picked out, venerated and then emulated. As you said within this context of ancient Egypt are redeemable aspects such as the start of labor rights. Or perhaps the worlds first union. . . [Edited 10/1/17 2:45am]

*

I agree, but ancient Egyptians also expanded and mastered a writing system started by the Ethiopians, and they developed mathematics and medicine. So, they have contributed more than just monarchy, slavery, and elitism. So, as I think we both agree, the goal is to include Egyptian civilization as a part of the African contribution to the world with its failures and successes. Our failure would be to make them deities or merely to demonize them for their human flaws. Do we ignore the contributions of the Gilded Age and the Roaring Twenties because of their excesses? Hopefully, we learn what we always learn, which is, again, history is not about praising perfect people but about learning from flawed people how to be better than our own flaws. As such, I can love and appreciate Booker T. Washington and W. E. B. DuBois even though both men had their flaws. Hell, even though Martin Luther King, Jr., was completely wrong on Black Power and sold out the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Power to obtain favor from President Johnson, does that mean that I don't think he is important to study? The NAACP was completely elitist in their support of Rosa Parks because three other black women had done the same thing she had done, but the NAACP deemed them as not "good models" for the cause. Unfortunately, understanding and navigating flaws is the essence of being human.

Be careful coming in here with real facts.......that doesn't go over 2 well.

Yes....I'm in a Cult. We brainwash people into THINKING ............4 Themselves.

I agree, but ancient Egyptians also expanded and mastered a writing system started by the Ethiopians <SNIP>

Citation required.

*

There are several places this can be found, but the most noted citation of this is from the Greek Historian Diodorus in his work The Library of History Book III, (chapter 4), in which he writes: "We must now speak about the Ethiopian writing which is called hieroglyphic among the Egyptian..." The remainder of the chapter is merely Diodorus explaining how Egyptian writing is exactly like Ethiopian writing. After reading Chapter 4 of Book III, you can return to Chapter 2 in which Diodorus is discussing the Ethiopians as the first race of civilization and showing that the Egyptians derived from the Ethiopians. Of course, Diodorus mixes myth with science, but, if you are like me, you can easily delete the myth, like his quoting of the Greek epics, and focus solely on those things proven later by archeology. I hope this helps.

There are several places this can be found, but the most noted citation of this is from the Greek Historian Diodorus in his work The Library of History Book III, (chapter 4), in which he writes: "We must now speak about the Ethiopian writing which is called hieroglyphic among the Egyptian..." The remainder of the chapter is merely Diodorus explaining how Egyptian writing is exactly like Ethiopian writing. After reading Chapter 4 of Book III, you can return to Chapter 2 in which Diodorus is discussing the Ethiopians as the first race of civilization and showing that the Egyptians derived from the Ethiopians. Of course, Diodorus mixes myth with science, but, if you are like me, you can easily delete the myth, like his quoting of the Greek epics, and focus solely on those things proven later by archeology. I hope this helps.

Cheers. I am an archaeologist*, which is why I know to treat ancient sources like Diodorus with caution. You say there are "several places" - can you suggest any primary sources which are a bit more scholary? As I recall, the currently most common archaeological view is that hieroglyphics were a native invention. Their development from a proto-literate system of symbols is quite well attested.

Records of ancient Egypt tell much about the history of Nubia, documenting a long and complex relationship between the two lands. Monuments and texts in the Egyptian language left by the Nubian kings, who became pharaohs of Egypt’s 25th Dynasty around 750 BC, also provide an extensive record. Nubians developed alphabetic writing systems around 200 BC during the Meroitic period. The Meroitic language is still not understood well enough to read more than words and phrases, but much documentation on Meroitic Nubia can be found in the art and literature of Greece and Rome, whose empires touched on the borders of Nubia after 330 BC.

Records of ancient Egypt tell much about the history of Nubia, documenting a long and complex relationship between the two lands. Monuments and texts in the Egyptian language left by the Nubian kings, who became pharaohs of Egypt’s 25th Dynasty around 750 BC, also provide an extensive record. Nubians developed alphabetic writing systems around 200 BC during the Meroitic period. The Meroitic language is still not understood well enough to read more than words and phrases, but much documentation on Meroitic Nubia can be found in the art and literature of Greece and Rome, whose empires touched on the borders of Nubia after 330 BC.

I've always wished there was a movie made about ancient Nubia. So much valuable history about it, many don't know about it.

Black Nationalists say silly things about Kemet. Saying it proves blacks are a pure race. Those blacks are long gone today's blacks have nothing to do with Eqypt.

There is this thing called 'descendants.'

According to my DNA results, I'm part of the L1b1a haplogroup. According to 23andme, that haplogroup "is exclusively found in Ethiopia and the Sudan" today. I'm pretty sure many descendants of ancient Nubians are living in the Sudan and Egypt today.[Edited 10/2/17 13:28pm]