If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

User Info Menu

Join Date

May 2008

Posts

3,664

Originally Posted by Captain Lemming

Lets see what was was done during BAs tenure:

2007 we go defense top 2 picks- How is that BAs fault?
2008 THE ONLY TIME BA might have influenced our taking skill players over big uglies in the top rounds. Mendenhall and Sweed were one and two. Steeler fans were ecstatic with the picks, though Sweed was a bust.
2009 Defense goes first- Not Arians fault- OLINE is our next pick Urbik
2010 Oline first pick oline Pouncey
2011 Defense goes firsr- first offensive player drafted was oline- Gilbert

Oline got more draft love BY FAR than any other offensive unit during the Arians era. It is not even close.
That does not look like a guy who was satisfied with what he had on the oline.

Yes you can claim the case that our youngest position coach is now somehow driving our entire draft strategy during the last two years but really that is just reaching dont you think?

If you are gonna blame Arians, you cant conveniently ignore him once Koogs arrived.

The fact is that neither Arians Koogs or now Haley bears responsibility for the draft. Colberts entire job is personnel. He and Tomlin make the call. Sure coordinators have input but ultimately who gets drafted is not their call.

To think we dont do exactly the same thing this year if BA was here is silly. You cant make a case that he did not like drafting olinemen when nearly all the premium picks on offense (all save for 2008 ) while he was here were offensive linemen.

I showed you who the Steelers drafted with the Arians & Zierlein. The didn't draft any OL in the 1st or 2nd. As soon as Zerlein is removed Pouncey is picked. Koogs had Pouncey ready to play day 1 but there wasn't any talent there to field when Colon went down.They had to go out and sign Adams. Year two Gilbert is selected. Colon goes down again. Is there any left over Arians/Zeirlien talent ready to go? No...Koogs has a rookie ready to go. The talent pool Arians created was so poor...Castoffs like J Scott & Meredith that Koogs are familiar with are brought in for depth. One year later Arians is removed and Decastro & Adams are pick 1-2. I can blame Arians when Koogs arrived and give Arians no credit after. It wasn't a secret what transpired when Zierlien was removed and Koogs hired. Arians was on the hotseat because of the OL production or should I say lack there of. It was no surprise what happened after Koogs showed he could get rookies on the field early over the vets that Arians & Zerlein has so much confidence in. Confidence in them is evidence by not addressing them.

The in-house evaluation of roster comes from the position coaches & coordinators input to Tomlin. This comes from the coaches in the locker room. The end of season meetings contain discussions on coaches performance and personnel depth issues that need to be addressed in the offseason and draft. The input is also necessary in contract & FA issues. The offseason process involves many personnel evaluation procedures and the in-house has it's chain through coaches. They are all part of the process and that is why they have success. If acoordinator receives concern that a position needs to be addresses from a position coach it filters to the HC from the coordinator. So if you are telling me the reason the OL wasn't addressed early was because Colbert & Tomlin ignored Arians wishes...I think you are a mistaken. The only reason it wasn't addressed is because of the input they received from Arians. Arians info came from Zeirlien. It is all reassured by Zierlien's removal and soon after Arians departure. The drafting of Pouncey & Gilbert and Koogs player development along the OL wasn't a reflection of Arian's brilliance. It was a lack of his ability to maintain a working relationship with players & position coaches and his incompetence before.

You are sitting in the cheapest seats available when it relates to how the process works. I guess you can't see from there. Colbert's draft success is largely in part of position coaches, coordinators, scouts, and the head coach put in these positions to do these jobs. These are the individuals traveling all over the country and working out individuals pre draft. Yes, Colbert & Tomlin make these trips too but they are not involved in all of them. Even the ones they attend, they have other coaches & scouts with them to work. The input of all of these are part of the decision making process. Colbert & Tomlin make the call on draft day but how the board is built comes from information gathered by many sources. Colbert is not Jerry Jones and that is why his record is solid. Do you really think Colbert is the guy who puts his finger on the talent simply by looking at a media source ranking on a position of need? If you say no...Where do you think he gets this information from? It is really comical that you can sit here and think that Colbert's & Tomlin's decisions on draft day is not impacted on anyone's evaluation on personnel.

This is no different than what we all experience everyday. Behind every successful man is talented people in support roles. If a part is broken...It needs to get fixed. Blame goes down the ladder and the praise rises to the Top. We know what part was broken for the last several years and we see what the plan of action was to correct it. So does the blame go at the top or the source? You be the judge. Was it Colbert's fault the Steelers had to spend 4 out of the last 6 top 2 picks in the last three drafts on OL? Wouldn't that go against you praising of Colbert? Colbert's decisions had roots. The roots came from Zierlien & BA before Koogs. After Koogs, we could only speculate what those conversations were but the answers were displayed on the field in Pouncey, Gilbert, and the development of others. Apparently BA wasn't given credit because he was shown the door. You do the math on how all that worked out.

Just on a side note here about draft success rate by position. There was a research project done by position in 2009 from drafts dating back to 1988. They classified the success rate by a player who was in 2 Pro Bowls OR 7 years as a starter OR 125 games played. 1st round OL was a rate of 41%, 2nd round OL was a rate of 31%, and 3rd round was a rate of 16%. The highest success rate for any position in the 1st round was 46%, 2nd round was 40%, and 3rd round was 19%. Needless to say, "addressing" a position in a draft for a starter should be coming out of the first two selections. So dedicating 67% (4 out or 6) of the top of the last three drafts is a very extreme investment. Why the investment had to be made is your choice of reasoning. I know what I saw on Gameday and I know where to point the finger. The Steelers saw the same. You can have your own opinion.

As this relates to Haley in his first year...He apparently followed suit. I'm sure he got his status from Koogs and that information was relayed. It appears they were willing to even give something up for DeCastro. Like I said before, even with a healthy Starks on this roster...Adams still would have been selected. It wouldn't have been because they "fell in love with him" because he begged them to give him a chance. That didn't make him a "special person" on a personal level and they wanted a guy like that on the team. The business side of this team would not have aloud it for the risk involved. It was because of what the talent level that was along the OL on the roster. The investment of 1-2 on the OL with the risk involved on Adams is just south of the word desperation. The fact that they were still there at those picks is something north of a miracle. Who you want to blame for the Steelers being in that position is up to you.

User Info Menu

The Steelers are building a young O-line around 2010 first-rounder Maurkice Pouncey. (US Presswire)

With quarterback Ben Roethlisberger now 30, and the team's most valuable player sacked an average of 43.5 times over the past six seasons -- including 40 or more sacks in all but one of those campaigns, and coming off an ankle injury last year -- Pittsburgh has drastically retooled its blocking unit.

It's not often that a perennial playoff team like the Pittsburgh Steelers so dramatically revamps its offensive line in such a short period of time. But, then again, it's not often that an annual postseason contender has such a dire area of need yet is able to get by with an obviously deficient unit.

Coach Mike Tomlin and general manager Kevin Colbert contend the remaking of the line wasn't necessarily intentional, and that circumstances and the club's draft board essentially dictated some of the moves since 2010. But it's notable that, in the past three drafts, the Steelers have selected four players now projected to start in 2012. And it's likewise worth mentioning that no other playoff team from 2011 is expected to have more than two line changes this season, and that 10 clubs will have either one or zero alterations.

"Whether it was needed or not, there's been a big shuffle," said two-time Pro Bowl center Maurkice Pouncey, a first-round pick in 2010. "Hopefully, we can all come together pretty quickly."

Quickly also describes the manner in which the club has addressed its line.

The latest move came this week with the revelation that former right tackle Willie Colon, who has played only one game the past two seasons because of injuries, will switch to left guard. While Colon was considered the team's best lineman before injuries curtailed his 2010 and 2011 campaigns, there was always discussion of him moving to guard, and the switch essentially puts the rest of the ducks in a row.

Two rookies, first-rounder David DeCastro and No. 2 pick Mike Adams, are slated to start at right guard and left tackle respectively. The choice of Adams, who some felt had first-round credentials before he tested positive for marijuana at the combine, negates the move of second-year right tackle Marcus Gilbert to the left side. And it means Pittsburgh will start a quintet in which four of the players are 24 or younger. Only Colon, 29, is older.

The shuffle also means that Pittsburgh could start a line that totals only 44 starts over the past two seasons. But in 2011, resourceful line coach Sean Kugler was forced to use a league-high 21 combinations. And while the breaking-in period could present some difficulties, the Steelers feel that in the long run the changes will be well worth it, and will better protect Roethlisberger.

Said Colon, who seemingly has embraced the change: "If things work out, we could be good for a while."

User Info Menu

Join Date

Jun 2008

Posts

4,452

I showed you who the Steelers drafted with the Arians & Zierlein. The didn't draft any OL in the 1st or 2nd.

We went defense in all but one season when Z was line coach. You can blame Arians only for one season (2008 ) the only season during his tenure when we took offensive players who were not linemen in the first or second round. You cant blame him during seasons when D LeBeau got his way. To thus imply that Arians preferred picking linebackers and dlinemen over getting players on his side of the ball is ridiculous and you know it. That is why you wont address it. You cant blame him when Colbert and Tomlin have the job of deciding team needs and the choosingif the priorities are on offense or defense. To credit Koogs for our drafts is ridiculous. Any position coach is gonna lobby for his position. Do you think Lake would have wanted a crack at a premium pick for the secondary rather than Koogs getting the elite talent? The same goes for any position coach.

BN I get what you are saying about coordinators and position coaches contributions. But I am not going to blame D Lebeau for our drafting Sweed and Arians aint the voice leading the charge in selecting our LBers. If you want to blame Arians for our draft look at offensive players taken. Oline has been top priority.
Before Koogs got here our first offensive player the year before was oline. Dont blame Arians for the fact that we went with defense first and had no second round pick.

You imply that comments by Z shows that he was content with our oline. Our Dline coach called our Dline "the best in NFL history" then we proceed to draft Heyward. What a coach says in praising his players means squat, they all would love to have more talent.

Tomlin and Colbelt weigh team needs and decides who gets the elite talent based on their assessment of team needs. BPA also plays a role in who gets drafted. Typically we dont reach for a team need.

Let me ask you one last question. If not oline, what specific unit has Arians shown to be of greatest need based on our draft record during his time as a Steeler?

Koogs had Pouncey ready to play day 1

Yes he is a great position coach and that is what position coaches do.

Just on a side note here about draft success rate by position. There was a research project done by position in 2009 from drafts dating back to 1988. They classified the success rate by a player who was in 2 Pro Bowls OR 7 years as a starter OR 125 games played. 1st round OL was a rate of 41%, 2nd round OL was a rate of 31%, and 3rd round was a rate of 16%. The highest success rate for any position in the 1st round was 46%, 2nd round was 40%, and 3rd round was 19%. Needless to say, "addressing" a position in a draft for a starter should be coming out of the first two selections. So dedicating 67% (4 out or 6) of the top of the last three drafts is a very extreme investment. Why the investment had to be made is your choice of reasoning. I know what I saw on Gameday and I know where to point the finger. The Steelers saw the same. You can have your own opinion.

I agree completely. And save for ONE SEASON - EVERY SINGLE FIRST OR SECOND ROUND CHOICE that BA "might" have had a say in went to the oline. You cannot blame him when defense is given the priority. To think that BA would not be delighted with these top two picks and that Haley was the difference is just silly.

User Info Menu

Join Date

May 2008

Posts

3,664

I never implied that a coach on the other side of the ball was responsible for a pick....But lack there of is a fact. For the drafts no OL in first 2 picks with Z & Arians is indication of how they felt about the roster. If the coaches were unhappy or concerned with the position they would have been addressed. Draft...FA...Whatever way necessary IF it was a concern. Do you really think Colbert handcuffed BA by not addressing a need if he ask for it? No...Didn't happen because he didn't express a need. I never ANYWHERE said Arians preferred picking defense so either you don't comprehend or stop mumbling things to make what you type sound better in your mind. I'm not addressing you thought you suggested because I never said that. It is your thought. You just don't understand how it all works and that makes it difficult for you to follow. At no point did I say DL was responsible for drafting Sweed...What kind of moronic bull$hit is that? That came out of your mouth! I guess I could expect that. If a position coach or coordinator expresses a need it will get addressed. Sweed is a perfect example. I thank you. That is how it works. Big WR was something BB & Arians wanted. It was adressed. Again, the pick isn't Arians fault if it didn't pan out. But it was addressed. Again, do you think Colbert & Tomlin chose to ignore Arians wished for 3 years while Z was the OL coach?

DL didn't get his way. He knew the positions on the roster were aging. Doesn't matter if it was at the top of its game...It needed to be addressed. Do you think that was part of the converstaion pre-draft? All starters over 30? Maybe the light goes on for you. I blame Arians for NOT addressing the OL. If he would have lobbied for it for Z it would have been addressed. If there was a sense of urgency they could have moved up for someone or addressed in FA. There wasn't any urgency...All we heard was they were happy with what they had. They felt they could grow into solid contributors. Well they never did. Zeirlien gets fired and Koogs is hired. The first two drafts while Koogs is here the Steelers take 2 OL in the first two rounds. Did I say Koogs made that pick? No....But it must be hard for you to follow. Koogs evaluation of the talent on the roster led to two OL early the next two years. The quality of the OL play has been no secret. BA removed this year and the Steelers go OL with their first two picks. Did the grades of these players have something to do with the picks? Absolutely! But the quality of the players on the roster had alot to do with the Steelers running over people to get to the podium each time. At no point did I say BA would not have been happy with these picks. BA is no longer here and part of the reason why the Steelers and the fans are so excited about these picks is the back-ups that he & Z fielded for many years have been replaced. BA gets ZERO credit for Pouncey or Gilbert too. Hand was already forced at that point and that is why Koogs was brought in.

There is a cause and effect to what transpired that started when BA & Z teamed up again. It was too little too late after Koogs arrived for BA. Who do you think the Steelers frown on when Koogs comes in here and has the success he has after Z is fired? Who do you NOT give credit to for Koogs success with the OL since he came here? Arians for both. He was the OC. And guess what...BA was fired. Any relation or pure coincidence? Well Koogs is still here and both BA & Z are gone. You do the math. Wasn't the only reason BA was fired but the OL development was part of it. To sit here and say that Tomlin & Colbert would not have given him better players to do his job "IF" he asked for them is ridiculous.

Your question: "If not oline, what specific unit has Arians shown to be of greatest need based on our draft record during his time as a Steeler?" He showed no need for any specific position early. But he didn't show any need for OL either. Again, I give BA no credit for Pouncey or Gilbert. None what so ever. While BA & Zerlien were together, the Steelers drafted ZERO OL in the first two rounds of the draft. Arguments can be made of how the draft fell or they wanted to trade up in certain drafts. So even if you discount that. How are you going to sit here and say that his OL coach gets fired and that year the replacement is brought in the Steelers draft an OL in the 1st and the next they draft an OL in the 2nd and that BA was a factor in it? The next year he gets fired and they draft 2 more OL with picks 1 & 2. Look at that scenario. It looks more like "lack of" resulted in the picks and his departure than giving him credit for it. Add in the fact the Steelers were rumored to be willing to move up for DecAstro SHOWS the sense of urgency. So where did that urgency come form when BA wasn't in the building and the Steelers just spent a 1 & 2 the previous two years on OL? It is called "housecleaning". BA created a mess on the OL with Z. Koogs has been sweeping up the mess since he got here and Haley grabbed a broom when he came through the door.

My bread crumbs lead me to believe the Steelers were unhappy with how BA handled the OL among other things bigger & smaller. That led to the Steelers firing Z and bringing in Koogs and ultimately moving on without BA. The injection of OL early the last three years supports what I hear. We see it differently. So be it.

User Info Menu

Join Date

Jun 2008

Posts

4,452

I never implied that a coach on the other side of the ball was responsible for a pick....But lack there of is a fact. For the drafts no OL in first 2 picks with Z & Arians is indication of how they felt about the roster. If the coaches were unhappy or concerned with the position they would have been addressed.

Not if Colbert and Tomlin feel defense are higher priorities. BTW our second pick in 09 WAS a lineman. First pick was defense (we had no second round pick is that on BA too). Z and Arians priority was Oline and we drafted oline.

I never ANYWHERE said Arians preferred picking defense so either you don't comprehend or stop mumbling things to make what you type sound better in your mind.

When you blame BA for not addressing the Oline when we draft defense you imply that it is his call to make. For all we know BA wanted to take Joe Staley in the first but DL wanted a LBer. You can only choose one. You can bet that BA wants to use ONE of those two on offense. We have no idea what happens if we go offense. BAs preference on offense was not heard whatever it was. That is my point, Colbert and Tomlin had LBer as a priority over ANY available offensive player in the first and second. Had we drafted a skill player instead fine put it on BA. We went defense so we cant blame him.

BN please inform us of who was BA's choice had he been able to take an offensive player in the first? When you can answer that, then tell us that it is his fault it wasnt oline.

At no point did I say DL was responsible for drafting Sweed...What kind of moronic bull$hit is that?

I know you never said that. I was illustrating how ludicrous your argument is. If you blame BA when we draft a LBer instead of oline, then by that standard we can blame DL if our middle LBer play suffers and Hightower is a rookie probowler. DL might have wanted a LBer but his bosses rightly see DeCastro as a far better pick. Whatever DL wanted was trumped by oline needs. Really the point is not that hard to grasp. Premium draft picks in this draft went to offensive needs, regardless of what DL wanted on defense.

DL didn't get his way. He knew the positions on the roster were aging. Doesn't matter if it was at the top of its game...It needed to be addressed. Do you think that was part of the converstaion pre-draft? All starters over 30? Maybe the light goes on for you. I blame Arians for NOT addressing the OL.

You mean the situation we have RIGHT NOW at safety? Heck the secondary is 3 old guys and a possible scrub youngster. Do you blame DL because our aging secondary was not addressed? Maybe he argued passionately to address the secondary. Those with a broader POV saw oline as the priority. If the secondary falls apart dues to injuries AGAIN is that on DL?

User Info Menu

Join Date

May 2008

Posts

3,664

Childishly trying to insinuate who I would project blame on doesn't make you look any more intelligent. My football knowledge is strong and by being condensending it makes you look very inferior and threatened. You are above that. I have read you.

To correct you again, the Steelers traded away their pick in 2009. If there was any sense or urgency the Steelers could have moved up in the draft or addressed the issues in FA. Can you honestly tell me under the BA & Z term you didn't question the OL? You should listen, read, and watch more about the Steelers and you would know more things internally. It is evident you missed alot of things because it isn't adding up for you. You missed alot of information following these drafts where everyone questioned why the OL wasn't addressed and why OL wasn't looked at in FA. You missed the words coming out of Zeirlien and Arians mouth.

Your assumptions were wrong and you are corrected. Perhaps I assumed you would understand and should have been more descriptive. You don't have to tell me how the draft process works. I am very informed on the practices in an organization. What I do find comical is you continue to say it wasn't BA call but you say DL got what he wanted. It doesn't work one way or the other whatever favors your argument. There is a structure in place in an organization. Colbert doesn't look at a piece of paper and make decisions based on what he solely feels. His decisions are made based upon the input from the people in the organization working for them. From draft picks to FA and contracts. Colbert untimately makes the final call but that call is the product of what the structure in the organization concluded. The successful organizations pipeline reaches all the way down. You can name examples of the teams that don't utilize this. You could also produce the examples of teams in history that where unsuccessful of fielding coach/GMs and Owners who try to put their finger prints on the sideline. It doesn't work because the football decisions need to be made by the people going over the X's & O's and interact with the players daily. That informations filters up. You ask anyone about Colbert and they will tell you this is part of his recipe for success over the years. His personnel decisions are fueled on input from people working in the organization. That includes the draft. Just like I said how you say DL get what he wants. If BA wanted an OL based on what he thought was on the roster...Colbert would have got him what he needed.

Over and over again we heard how the Steelers were satisfied with what was on the roster at OL when BA & Z where together after the draft or through FA. So are you saying BA & Z asked for help and Colbert ignored them? Colbert sabatoged both of them in their job performance? Firing Z and BA was just a way of someone taking the blame for Colbert's mistakes? It doesn't work like that. You tell me why they were both shown the door. It wasn't because of BB NON development, Lack of RB performance, Lack of WR & TE production, or the teams inability to score points and win championships or get to the big game. Anything you can put your finger on has "OL" in the title. Z couldn't develop what he had. Who's fault is it he didn't have better? You trying to put that on Colbert? If the OL was so poor why wasn't any help given? I can't help you put two & two together. There is a list of reasons you could put here. Z being fired cements them. Who was Z's boss through this? I guess you didn't see the trend of trying for field mid to low round draft choices or UDFA and attempt to groom them into starters. WHo's philosophy was that? BA & Z are both gone. Z is fired and Pouncey & Gilbert enter the picture. BA is fired and DeCastro & Adams enter the picture this year. Did Colbert change his philosophy on OL? No. They got a good OL coach who could develop and evaluate what he had & passed that on. BA wasn't happy with the Z firing. So did BA road block from his position? I can't say for sure and that kind of info won't come out of the Steelers. But losing your OL coach and then losing your job soon after has legs. BA player-coach relationship has always been an issue so one could assume that BA judgment of his OL talent was clouded.

You could believe whatever angle you want. Z & BA didn't get fired because of Colbert's ignorance. They got fired for their own.

User Info Menu

Join Date

May 2008

Posts

22,170

Originally Posted by Captain Lemming

Lets not get carried away with the "HALEY EFFECT" here. It is no surprise that the success of Pouncey and Gilbert as rookies has led to greater comfort in rookie lineman today. Heck, we Do you really think Haley was the reason we picked what are easily the best players on the board? We don't pick Decasto and Adams save for Haley? Really? DeCastro was a nobrainer. Adams addressed Colbert Tomlin and Rooney to make a case and sold THEM on him. We dumped Kemo already and let Max go for being fat last year. I see no undue loyalty or playing favorites before Haley arrived.

True.. and maybe this draft played out perfectly but it sure seems like we had "confidence" in some scrub OL play these last few years. I'm not saying we didn't draft some big uglies but we fielded some below average OL for a few years.

User Info Menu

Join Date

Jun 2008

Posts

4,452

Can you honestly tell me under the BA & Z term you didn't question the OL? You should listen, read, and watch more about the Steelers and you would know more things internally. It is evident you missed alot of things because it isn't adding up for you. You missed alot of information following these drafts where everyone questioned why the OL wasn't addressed and why OL wasn't looked at in FA. You missed the words coming out of Zeirlien and Arians mouth.

Dude I have been for drafting oline for YEARS. I was frustrted every time we went Dline first. I do not believe our scheme requires 1st rounders at D-end we have done fine without them. The ONLY area that I differ is who is to blame. Looking at the ENTIRE TEAM Colbert and Tomlin saw other priorities.

Your assumptions were wrong and you are corrected.

Is that so? Lets see below

Perhaps I assumed you would understand and should have been more descriptive.

Oh yes wise one I am just not bright enough to "get it"

I am very informed on the practices in an organization.

Yes you are!

What I do find comical is you continue to say it wasn't BA call but you say DL got what he wanted. It doesn't work one way or the other whatever favors your argument. There is a structure in place in an organization. Colbert doesn't look at a piece of paper and make decisions based on what he solely feels. His decisions are made based upon the input from the people in the organization working for them. From draft picks to FA and contracts. Colbert untimately makes the final call but that call is the product of what the structure in the organization concluded. The successful organizations pipeline reaches all the way down. You can name examples of the teams that don't utilize this. You could also produce the examples of teams in history that where unsuccessful of fielding coach/GMs and Owners who try to put their finger prints on the sideline. It doesn't work because the football decisions need to be made by the people going over the X's & O's and interact with the players daily. That informations filters up. You ask anyone about Colbert and they will tell you this is part of his recipe for success over the years. His personnel decisions are fueled on input from people working in the organization.

Wow that is sure a lot of fancy words mister. I spoke of assistant coaches and position coaches contributions too but it took me half a sentence. Thank you for sharing it in such vivid detail. In the end though Colbert and Tomlin take those comments into consideration and make the call based on their perception of overall team needs.

Over and over again we heard how the Steelers were satisfied with what was on the roster at OL when BA & Z where together after the draft or through FA. So are you saying BA & Z asked for help and Colbert ignored them?

The Steelers are placing a heavy emphasis on front-seven defenders this draft season, but they’re not blind. They understand they may have a problem brewing on the offensive line and are looking hard at a left tackle who projects to be drafted in the bottom third of the first round.

Not that the Steelers would draft Central Michigan left tackle Joe Staley at pick 15, but according to a source, offensive line coach Larry Zierlein “loves” Staley and is trying to convince the personnel department to consider him among a pool of players they’d draft in a trade down of “seven or eight spots” in the round.

Colbert sabatoged both of them in their job performance? Firing Z and BA was just a way of someone taking the blame for Colbert's mistakes? It doesn't work like that. You tell me why they were both shown the door.

They were fired because they are not very good at what coaches do. They are not good coaches. Not exactly rocket science.

If the OL was so poor why wasn't any help given? I can't help you put two & two together.

That my friend is clear. I'll give it a shot. The personnel people did not put a priority on offensive line until it was already really bad. No they are making up for it in the last few drafts. Above is the proof that Z begged us to take a tackle DURING HIS VERY FIRST YEAR. They chose not to listen

My case is made.

You could believe whatever angle you want. Z & BA didn't get fired because of Colbert's ignorance. They got fired for their own.

They got fired because they are not good COACHES. That is their job and they are not good at it. It is really that simple.

User Info Menu

Join Date

May 2008

Posts

3,664

Originally Posted by Captain Lemming

By Jim Wexell SteelCityInsider.com Posted Apr 9, 2007

The Steelers are placing a heavy emphasis on front-seven defenders this draft season, but they’re not blind. They understand they may have a problem brewing on the offensive line and are looking hard at a left tackle who projects to be drafted in the bottom third of the first round.

Not that the Steelers would draft Central Michigan left tackle Joe Staley at pick 15, but according to a source, offensive line coach Larry Zierlein “loves” Staley and is trying to convince the personnel department to consider him among a pool of players they’d draft in a trade down of “seven or eight spots” in the round.

I would love to read that full article. Please post link. I would love to see the thought process since Smith was 28 coming of 16 starts in 2006 with 3 years left on the deal and Colon took over starting at RT for Starks that year. Smith's back injury happened at the end of 2007 when Starks took over for good.

All that work and you hurt your argument and proved mine. Preciate Dat!

"The personnel people did not put a priority on offensive line until it was already really bad." You do realize "personnel people" are the coaches too right. They are the ones responsible for evaluating what they have on the roster and what they believe they could make out of them. It is their responsibility to develop the young players and make sure the starters play above the line. So I agree...Z & BA failed to put priority on offensive line until it was already really bad.

"Colbert and Tomlin take those comments into consideration and make the call based on their perception of overall team needs" Agree again. You are making this so easy. Apparently Z & BA had confidence in what they had.

"They got fired because they are not good COACHES. That is their job and they are not good at it." Thank you. Was that so hard? Nice to see you came around. Z couldn't develop his draft choices and his players regressed. BA did nothing to help himself in this situation. Since Z was under him and he allowed the free fall...Tomlin & Colbert removed Z for him.

How much reasoning did your argument have when the Steelers removed the OL & OC over the past two season? It was like saying a criminal is innocent after he was accused, charged, went to trial, & convicted. I assume you know the responsibilities of all the coaches up the ladder. You also seem to know alot about how the Steelers operate. I really find it hard to believe you don't feel that Z & BA had some influence on why the Steelers didn't feel the OL needed to be addressed before Z was fired. Colbert seems to be a smart guy. We will never know from the "horse's mouth". So we don't continue to waste each others time arguing about people not here...Good show.