In a general way I am very nice to people, I try to make them feel confortable. I like peace, peace around me and peace inside me.

The problem is that sometimes I have bursts of rage. I loose my control. Sometimes that will happen against people that attacks me or not being fair with me. Sometimes that happens in not towards someone, but against the world in general, or against some specific group, like politicians for example.

Life is not easy and I think that part of my increasing rage is caused by the economic and social problems here in Portugal. Work is getting harder (more hours and hours to work, and job is even farther away from home) and money is more rare. The other part of the problem is me, because since young I am both peaceful and fierce as a bull...dont touch me and everything is fine, provoke me (like the politicians do or friends sometimes) and I get mad. When I was younger I had some serious depressions and problems (because of a somewhat agressive family) and my hearth grew up hatred and only knowing sadness and frustration.

So, the basic line here is: how do you deal with things like that, like sadness and rage? How do you avoid loosing control when you are becoming mad? How do you apply the Noble Eightfold Path and all Dharma teachings to deal with such problems? Be specific as you wish. For example, if you use a specific type of meditation, if you have some helpful daily practice, etc, say it.

Bear in mind, I'm not a professional and not qualified to offer professional advice. But I think perhaps you might benefit from anger management and behavioural therapy from a skilled therapist. I am aware in my own life that meditation has certainly helped me attain a lot more equanimity, but I still loose my temper sometimes. But if you're aware that this has been a behavioural pattern for a long period I think a behaviourist approach might be a really useful complement to meditation and mindfulness training.

Learn to do good, refrain from evil, purify the mind ~ this is the teaching of the Buddhas

For me it was helpful to sit in meditation in front of the Buddha and then look at the outraging situation, analyzing it:What happened? What made me angry? Why i got angry? What kind of thoughts were in my mind? How can i see it different? How could i behave different? How did the other person feel? How would it be, to be in his shoes?

Important for this analyzis is a meditative calm state of mind.Slowly with more and more practice i improved. It took three years.Now when i get angry i can notice it before it bursts out and i like to take these incidents for to analyze the emptyness of self and phenomenons...In former times i did not notice that i was about to get angry before the anger bursted out.

Like Ayu, I find all of her post quite helpful,because this is the way I've been dealing with anger and rage. Also, this may seem selfish but, I also "look" at the anger rising in me and say to myself "how will this benifit me?"Many others I know find this as usefull as I do. In my personal experience it seems to help because I do try to benifit all beings and by leting myself reach the stage of anger progressing to rage I harm myself and eveyone around me.

As to your point on politics, do your best to just let that go. Somethings we just have no power over and we can't let them have power over us.

I wish you all the best in overcoming this hindrance. Keep up your meditation and your mind will become more calm and these things will be much easier to handle in time. Also as jeepers said, some professional help may be in order if it is available to you.

Everyday problems teach us to have a realistic attitude.They teach us that life is what life is; flawed.Yet with tremendous potential for joy and fulfillment.~Lama Surya Das~

If your path teaches you to act and exert yourself correctly and leads to spiritual realizations such as love, compassion and wisdom then obviously it's worthwhile.~Lama Thubten Yeshe~

One whose mind is freed does not argue with anyone, he does not dispute with anyone. He makes use of the conventional terms of the world without clinging to them~The Buddha~

Jeeprs: maybe its a good idea, but in the small town where I live, everybody knows everybody and maybe it wouldnt be that easy to visit a doctor like that without being noticed. Besides, behaviour terapeuts are something find to hard in a small town and my money right now is sparse. Altought I am not starving lol, in such economical crysis I must be careful with money, and if the doctor is not good, the money will go away for nothing.

Ayu: sometimes I do that, but not exactly on a meditation posture. I just try to analyze things without recuring to meditation. But my problem is not just about reflexion. For example, I may find exactly why I was angry on a giving situation, but still I will not be able to deal with a new and similar situation. By the way, do you use the note techniques (like in Vipassana Meditation) when trying to catch rage before it rises?

Dave: maybe the practice of continuous meditation, daily meditation (something I dont do) will help me. According to some studys, meditation can change -for better - some brain areas responsible for emotions.

Lastlegend: I know I am not the only one . In fact, I think that because I grew up in the middle of people with bursts of rage, I became like that too.

what i told is no quick-rescue-remedie. It cannot deal with a certain acute situation, but it helps in the overview longterm.Very important for me is to do the analizis in front of the Buddha, quasi WITH him...Why? Because the analyzis has to go deeper than intelect if you want to reach the causes.Intellectual analyzing, while sitting and drinking coffee , is not deep enough. It doesn't reach the sources.

I look at it in meditation, without judging or withhold. It helps to understand it completely. And this helps in doing it different next time.For the analyzis of emptyness of self or of negation of Self, such temper-rising emotions are good to look at. Because a strong emotion is easier to watch than a smaller emotion.

Nosta wrote:The problem is that sometimes I have bursts of rage. I loose my control. \

Life is not easy and I think that part of my increasing rage is caused by the economic and social problems here in Portugal.... When I was younger I had some serious depressions and problems (because of a somewhat agressive family) and my hearth grew up hatred and only knowing sadness and frustration.

So, the basic line here is: how do you deal with things like that, like sadness and rage? How do you avoid loosing control when you are becoming mad? How do you apply the Noble Eightfold Path and all Dharma teachings to deal with such problems? Be specific as you wish. For example, if you use a specific type of meditation, if you have some helpful daily practice, etc, say it.

I was raised by three rageaholics in a very negative environment and was thus conditioned to rage. I wasn't aware of this until I had graduated from college and realized that I could sometimes go into a rage just like one particular (and highly abusive) family member. I realized that I was copying her example and that this was highly destructive and possibly even dangerous to people around me when this happened.

One meditation that I was taught eliminated 80% of this. This meditation is a Taoist meditation that deals directly with chi channels. My conclusion is that in fact much of the rage was a result of trauma that resulted in my chi flow changing. Chi flows in response to the mind so the mind can alter it's flow radically. However I would be reluctant to divulge this meditation beyond this statement. The main component of this meditation before one starts the channel meditation is one-pointed concentration on a particular point. So will straight forward shine/shamata work? Well, shine, single pointed concentration, is the beginning of shamata, tranquility meditation, and both suppress the poisons, the kleshas. So this is a good first step. The second thing is to really take a look a anger. As mentioned in another posting - who does it help? Anger helps no one - in fact it can hurt people and beings you love and causes people to turn away from you. It also hurts you directly since it causes huge amounts of merit to be destroyed (HHDL quoting Shantideva's Bodhisattva's Way of Life) and it creates negative karma. So analytically contemplating this would be a good second step (or you could do this first). Third would be lovingkindness meditation or in the Tibetan tradition Avalokiteshvara meditation. However I have found that people who are strongly attached to anger benefit more from Vajrakilaya (a fierce tantric yidam) meditation. For people such as myself (and I have spoken with other people for whom this is true), this practice tends to transform anger directly.

Kirt:I understand why you are reluctant to speak more about that meditation. I suppose that any meditation related to energy flow is dangerous unless you have the guide of a good master.When you said that one must think "[anger] who does it help?", I must say that I do that. I think that way too, but thats not enough. A quick example, related to fear: you can say to a child, that is trying to learn swiming, "dont be afraid of the water, there is no danger; I am here to hold you", and that child knows that there is no need for fear, but she will fear the water anyway! She just cannot avoid it. Reason is not enough (but its important of course) in this case About Vajrakilaya, the fierce tantric vidam, how does it work?

Nosta wrote:When you said that one must think "[anger] who does it help?", I must say that I do that. I think that way too, but thats not enough. A quick example, related to fear: you can say to a child, that is trying to learn swiming, "dont be afraid of the water, there is no danger; I am here to hold you", and that child knows that there is no need for fear, but she will fear the water anyway! She just cannot avoid it. Reason is not enough (but its important of course) in this case

That's because there is deep habituation to the rage (hopefully only from this life). However concentration meditation can help enormously because you will begin to see the anger rise before it manifests. Then you can make a decision to suppress it or hopefully transform it, or more the Dzogchen approach, just watch it and not react and let it dissolve and dissipate all by itself, like writing in water.

About Vajrakilaya, the fierce tantric vidam, how does it work?

A yidam (also called a meditational deity) is a visualization of a Buddha or Bodhisattva that usually has a specific purpose. Yidams embody all the compassion and wisdom of all the Buddhas but differ wrt their activities. Vajrakilaya has the purpose of clearing obstacles or spiritual obstructions. I spoke with a beloved lama about using Vajrakilaya to transmute anger (I had already noticed that this practice had this effect on me) and he was taken aback and suggested just Avalokiteshvara. So he thought there was some danger here and wanted more an antidote approach. This is his only instruction that I have not followed because I have really seen this effect and in fact I have run into people who had the same experience. So how does it work? I don't know. The meditation itself seems to transmute the anger and cut it from the root over time (in my case over a short time). In order to take this approach, you would need to receive and empowerment and practice. I cannot guarantee that it will work for you, however. I would tell you to consult with a lama but Tibetans do seem to think that Westerners might misuse the practice and are reluctant to discuss Vajrakilaya in order to transmute anger (anyway, this was a kind of side-effect of the practice - I didn't practice in order to transmute anger). Maybe it is only happening with non-Tibetans? But all lamas I spoke with about this consistently want to apply antidotes via Avalokiteshvara (or possibly another peaceful approach). Even this may be saying too much about the practice actually.

However it hasn't done away completely and it is still possible that outbursts *could* happen (they haven't for quite a while but I notice the anger and the possibility still). Continued analytical meditation on the danger of anger is necessary as well.

Anger, however, while destructive, is not actually the problem. It's the reaction to anger that is the problem. All emotions are actually wisdom but we don't experience them as such (or another way of putting it is that once purified, all emotions arise as the display of wisdom, but when they aren't purified they arise as an obscuration). Sometimes we need the display of anger to help people, but that is rare.

Just a commentay to something you said in the end: in fact, even worst than anger, are the reactions to it, but when I created this topic I didnt make a distinction. My problem are is twofold: both the anger and, sometimes (fortunatly not always), the reactions to it.

Nosta wrote:When you said that one must think "[anger] who does it help?", I must say that I do that. I think that way too, but thats not enough. A quick example, related to fear: you can say to a child, that is trying to learn swiming, "dont be afraid of the water, there is no danger; I am here to hold you", and that child knows that there is no need for fear, but she will fear the water anyway! She just cannot avoid it. Reason is not enough (but its important of course) in this case

That's because there is deep habituation to the rage (hopefully only from this life). However concentration meditation can help enormously because you will begin to see the anger rise before it manifests. Then you can make a decision to suppress it or hopefully transform it, or more the Dzogchen approach, just watch it and not react and let it dissolve and dissipate all by itself, like writing in water.

About Vajrakilaya, the fierce tantric vidam, how does it work?

A yidam (also called a meditational deity) is a visualization of a Buddha or Bodhisattva that usually has a specific purpose. Yidams embody all the compassion and wisdom of all the Buddhas but differ wrt their activities. Vajrakilaya has the purpose of clearing obstacles or spiritual obstructions. I spoke with a beloved lama about using Vajrakilaya to transmute anger (I had already noticed that this practice had this effect on me) and he was taken aback and suggested just Avalokiteshvara. So he thought there was some danger here and wanted more an antidote approach. This is his only instruction that I have not followed because I have really seen this effect and in fact I have run into people who had the same experience. So how does it work? I don't know. The meditation itself seems to transmute the anger and cut it from the root over time (in my case over a short time). In order to take this approach, you would need to receive and empowerment and practice. I cannot guarantee that it will work for you, however. I would tell you to consult with a lama but Tibetans do seem to think that Westerners might misuse the practice and are reluctant to discuss Vajrakilaya in order to transmute anger (anyway, this was a kind of side-effect of the practice - I didn't practice in order to transmute anger). Maybe it is only happening with non-Tibetans? But all lamas I spoke with about this consistently want to apply antidotes via Avalokiteshvara (or possibly another peaceful approach). Even this may be saying too much about the practice actually.

However it hasn't done away completely and it is still possible that outbursts *could* happen (they haven't for quite a while but I notice the anger and the possibility still). Continued analytical meditation on the danger of anger is necessary as well.

Anger, however, while destructive, is not actually the problem. It's the reaction to anger that is the problem. All emotions are actually wisdom but we don't experience them as such (or another way of putting it is that once purified, all emotions arise as the display of wisdom, but when they aren't purified they arise as an obscuration). Sometimes we need the display of anger to help people, but that is rare.

Kirt

Excellent post from the heart. Lots of useful information. I also have found that Vajrakilaya practice helps to transmute anger. When anger, or any emotion, is informed by awareness, it has nowhere to stay and just evaporates on its own - like writing on water.

Also, controlling the breath may help. We have all heard the saying take three deep breaths when you get angry.

So try to use anger (or any unwanted trigger event) as a reminder to watch the breath.

This could be observing the sensation of the movement of air at the nostrils, or the movement of the diaphragm with the breaths.

Slow the breath and just stay with this observation until the anger subsides of its own energy. Just watch the breath without comment. If you are distracted by strong thoughts or feelings, try to just gently bring your awareness back to the observation of the breath. I think that exercise, walking or running until you are physically exhausted, is a good way to adjust your energy until you can focus enough to observe the breath again. Do whatever helps you (without acting out on the anger).

Invoking the blessings of a spiritual teacher, or guide, that you have faith in, is also something you can try.

Perhaps changing where you live, or sleep might help and / or changing your diet, if changing any of these are possible. Try sleeping in a North South direction, with your head to the North, assuming you are North of the equator. Keep a detailed diary, and try to note what else is happening in your life when the outbursts happen. Maybe try writing in the diary when the outbursts occur, as this will make you slow down to concentrate, which will also change the brain chemistry.

Perhaps understanding that the emotions are related to chemistry changes in the brain might help you to understand that you are not / not the cause of your anger and if you just wait a while, the storms will pass.

When you do the slow breathing, with the observation of the breathing, this changes the chemistry of the brain and the anger changes also. You can consider that it is the same thing for the reaction to (the results of) anger.

You can also try to "change the channel" by doing some positive activity that has made you feel good before: getting a warm fuzzy. This also creates the space that allows change to take place.

Good luck - It's not so easy - this life.

My Teacher has said you have to be strong and dominate your mind / emotions. Another way to say this is from a poem by Len Chandler,

"You can't change the weather, but you sure can set the sail,

And the harbor looks so much better when you've made it through the gale,

It's a common thing that has been dealt with before.I, in fact, used to have a violent temper.Considering this Zen story helped me a lot.

75. Temper

A Zen student came to Bankei and complained: "Master, I have an ungovernable temper. How can I cure it?" "You have something very strange," replied Bankei. "Let me see what you have." "Just now I cannot show it to you," replied the student. "When can you show it to me?" asked Bankei. "I don't know, it arises unexpectedly," replied the student. "Then," concluded Bankei, "it must not be your own true nature. If it were, you could show it to me at any time. When you were born you did not have it, and your parents did not give it to you. Think that over."

Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.Did you think it was not there-- in your wife's lovely face in your baby's laughter?Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it? from - Judyth Collin The Layman's Lament From What Book, 1998, p. 52 Edited by Gary Gach

Very good post about Taoist meditation.You might be able to learn the Chi Kung or preliminary exercises of Tai Chi. Before I had access to a teacher, I learned them from a book and then practiced twenty minutes every morning. Over a year of recorded practice, on two occasions I had anger outbursts and those were the two days I had not practiced . . .You can find them on youtube, on DVD and in printed text.

Perhaps a change in perspective is what you need. Make this your mantra:"He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,"— in those who harbour such thoughts hatred will never cease. "He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me," — in those who do not harbour such thoughts hatred will cease. For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time: hatred ceases by love, this is an old rule." Dhammapada Pairs verse 3-5

Seishin wrote:Perhaps a change in perspective is what you need. Make this your mantra:"He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,"— in those who harbour such thoughts hatred will never cease. "He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me," — in those who do not harbour such thoughts hatred will cease. For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time: hatred ceases by love, this is an old rule." Dhammapada Pairs verse 3-5

Gassho,Seishin

Yes, this is how it really is.

Easy to say, sometimes very hard to take love in. Especially, if you've been abused, beaten, robbed or 'defeated' by hatred.

But that's why we practice, isn't it? To overcome the three poisons of greed, delusion and hate.

Yes, very hard indeed. I admit that I succumb to anger and hatred. But I try to remind myself that those who do it are also trying to deal with their own issues. We all suffer but we manifest that suffering differently. Some internalise and some externalise. It's so hard sometimes to deal with those who externalise and hard to extend metta to them. I think this is why metta bhavana is such an important exercise.

Seishin wrote:Yes, very hard indeed. I admit that I succumb to anger and hatred. But I try to remind myself that those who do it are also trying to deal with their own issues. We all suffer but we manifest that suffering differently. Some internalise and some externalise. It's so hard sometimes to deal with those who externalise and hard to extend metta to them. I think this is why metta bhavana is such an important exercise.

Gassho,Seishin

It is definitely difficult to deal with those who externalize, who think the demons are 'out there'.

I see a worse problem looming however - dealing with those who think they have no demons, that they have 'overcome' their negativity, that all the problems with negativity belong to someone else, somewhere else.

Joan Halifax has written a very good article called "The Problem with Enlightenment". I have written her just this morning to ask if i may post it elsewhere. If she agrees, i will it it here. She addresses the issue of "demonization" in a way that is understandable, not only for Westerners, but for other cultures as well i think.

By no means do i think 'psychology' is the answer to all our problems. Psychologists and psychological theory are just as limited as any "ism". But it can be helpful in re-conceptualizing the problem for those who need such things for understanding. Which, from my point of view anyway, is most of the world.

Anyway, I'm still working with my own anger/inability to accept love issues....even just this morning.....

Seishin wrote:Perhaps a change in perspective is what you need. Make this your mantra:"He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,"— in those who harbour such thoughts hatred will never cease. "He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me," — in those who do not harbour such thoughts hatred will cease. For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time: hatred ceases by love, this is an old rule." Dhammapada Pairs verse 3-5

Gassho,Seishin

Thank you Seishin for reminding me of this. Also thank you Malabeads for your postings in this thread.

I have been doing my best to follow what Seishin posted. I had a rough childhood being beaten regularly. But have seem to have let go of much of the anger/hatred I've harbored. It actually feels good to do your best to treat that person with metta and some compassion. Even though it's difficult it can be done.It's also nice to read of others experiencing the same "feelings" and finding the success through the Dharma to practice both metta and compassion.

Thank you both and all the others who have added to this thread.

Dave

Everyday problems teach us to have a realistic attitude.They teach us that life is what life is; flawed.Yet with tremendous potential for joy and fulfillment.~Lama Surya Das~

If your path teaches you to act and exert yourself correctly and leads to spiritual realizations such as love, compassion and wisdom then obviously it's worthwhile.~Lama Thubten Yeshe~

One whose mind is freed does not argue with anyone, he does not dispute with anyone. He makes use of the conventional terms of the world without clinging to them~The Buddha~