re: What do DEA and Narcotics officers really think they're doing? (Posted on 12/8/12 at 10:22 am to WikiTiger)

We all collectively hate dealing with Marijuana. It's gotten to the point where Judges just throw the case out as fast as you make them. Legalize it and be done with it.

Cocaine is a different story. That shite really hurts people. Crack Cocaine is still very widely used and it is just horrible what it does to users and in terms of the drug/gang violence associated with it. Cocaine is a bad thing in my opinion. Same goes for Meth and Heroin.

quote:Do the people you work with believe that putting a person in jail for cocaine possession is a good thing, both morally and politically?

The problem is what do you do with some crack addict who is selling their body on the street? They are far better off in jail than they are on the street being victimized in ways we can't begin to understand. we do have a moral responsibility to do something. At least in jail, they get cleaned up, some medical attention, some food and a shower. They all bond out in a few days and then go right back at it until they die.

The new rage is prescription drug abuse. This is a massive problem. Again, it is killing people and that is morally wrong no matter how you look at it. We are aggressively going after pill mills doctors and they are losing their licenses as they should. Florida is #1 in pill mill operations.

Not all people can use drugs and walk away from it. It takes over and their lives are destroyed.

re: What do DEA and Narcotics officers really think they're doing? (Posted on 12/8/12 at 10:35 am to LSUwag)

quote:Not all people can use drugs and walk away from it. It takes over and their lives are destroyed.

But isn't that an issue of liberty? Who owns their body? Them or the state?

And I feel like you're going to make a government begets government argument to rebut that, so I'll cut it off at the head. (Sorry if I'm wrong)

If you justify infringements on liberty (i.e. drug laws) because of the negative effects it'll have on other government services/resources/mandates/etc., then you are essentially discarding liberty altogether.

If we're going to go that route, then the argument that government should be able to restrict food intake then becomes legitimate because people who eat poorly put a burden on the health care system, and since government pays for that, then we need to do something to stop them before it becomes an issue.

Obviously I don't agree with that, but it's been my experience on this and others sites, as well as IRL debates, that people overwhelmingly support that mentality when it comes to drug laws.

re: What do DEA and Narcotics officers really think they're doing? (Posted on 12/8/12 at 10:45 am to LSUwag)

quote:Cocaine is a different story. That shite really hurts people. Crack Cocaine is still very widely used and it is just horrible what it does to users

Crack is not "widely" used....it is a small subset of the population and a small subset of people who use actually become addicted....though I will grant that if you're smoking crack you're probably already an addict of some sort...one doesn't arrive at crack casually. Most people who have used, sometimes use regular powder are not addicts. And if legalized do you imagine, with what is known about the long term affects of meth, crack that people who have chosen not to use will willy-nilly run out and start smoking it up???

quote:and in terms of the drug/gang violence associated with it.

The gang violence is directly related to the illegality....you know this right?

quote:The problem is what do you do with some crack addict who is selling their body on the street?

Their body to sell...legalize prostitution and take it out of the shadows too.

Offer treatment to addicts if it bothers you.

quote:The new rage is prescription drug abuse. This is a massive problem. Again, it is killing people and that is morally wrong no matter how you look at it. We are aggressively going after pill mills doctors and they are losing their licenses as they should. Florida is #1 in pill mill operations.

It's because of prohibition that the syth drug market has come about...without prohibition do you think people are making bathtub meth? Using bath salts, etc?

re: What do DEA and Narcotics officers really think they're doing? (Posted on 12/8/12 at 10:51 am to WikiTiger)

I'll answer you with this.

Law enforcement officers enforce laws that are on the books. They deal with individuals, not society as a whole. Cocaine is illegal and therefore when they find a person in possession of Cocaine, they arrest them. If Cocaine was legalized they would no longer arrest them. It's not rocket science.

If you did a survey of a 1000 cops and asked them why they went into this career, I would estimate that 90% would answer that by saying that they way to help people. Believe it or not, cops do help a lot of people.

Your legislature passes laws which limit liberties. Cops just do their jobs. If society didn't want cops then why why do they constantly call 911.

I personally have strong libertarian beliefs, probably more so than most in this career would have. They have evolved over time. I'm near retirement so I've seen a lot over the years. I'm the Ron Swanson of my profession.

re: What do DEA and Narcotics officers really think they're doing? (Posted on 12/8/12 at 10:59 am to Gmorgan4982)

quote:Not if you are against the state's initiation of violence upon non-violent individuals.

You must live under a rock.

Violence will not magically go away if you were to legalize drugs. It will not change. Drugs will not be free. They will still cost a lot of money, possibly more because of taxation and regulation. This money has to come from somewhere. Drug sealers generally don't get up and go to the office every morning. They commit crime.

I'm out of this thread because the morons have finally gotten up and discovered that their is a legitimate discussion about drugs going on somewhere.

Later.

Drug users will else need money to buy their fix. A significant portion of them will not be responsible citizens who earn an honest living to support their addiction. They too commit crime.

re: What do DEA and Narcotics officers really think they're doing? (Posted on 12/8/12 at 11:04 am to LSUwag)

quote:You must live under a rock.

Better than being a cop, I guess.

quote:Violence will not magically go away if you were to legalize drugs.

That's a logical leap. I did not say violence would go away. Look, I am forced to pay, through taxation, for the use of violence against non-violent individuals. I don't like my money being used that way. I am not for violence but I'd be a little better off if I weren't forced to pay for its use.

quote:I'm out of this thread because the morons have finally gotten up

I guess if you can't successfully debate someone, then calling them "morons" works almost as well.

re: What do DEA and Narcotics officers really think they're doing? (Posted on 12/8/12 at 11:12 am to Joshjrn)

Yeah, statists always like to point out how libertarian ideas won't work. They won't work compared to what? I don't see many of the current laws working all that well. Unless some people think having the largest prison population in the world per capita is "working".

re: What do DEA and Narcotics officers really think they're doing? (Posted on 12/8/12 at 2:13 pm to LSUwag)

quote:The problem is what do you do with some crack addict who is selling their body on the street? They are far better off in jail than they are on the street being victimized in ways we can't begin to understand.

The problem is the black market aspect actually makes it more dangerous for the user. If it were legal and controlled, these street dangers would probably be lessened.