Sexist Female Oppression? Cleavage In The Workplace

Originally posted by kalisdad
you gotta love how the majority of the people that are for allowing cleavage in the workplace are freely admiting that the only justification they
have for it is so they can look at them....

people need to realize that this is about professional workplaces

if you want to show cleavage off on a regular basis, find a job that encourages this... don't expect to get away with it in a office or other
professional environment

Must be something horribly wrong with me. I don't like to share with everyone else. I prefer my women unclothed in the privacy of my home. Not out on
the street.

I also don't like women who display their wares in the workplace because it causes me to ask what are their real life skills.

To be frank about it...there is so much on display today that women and females tend to learn about sex and sexuality long before any real life
sustaining skills and knowledges are acquired. Such common displays leave little to the imagination and hence anything overdone tends to lower value
in the marketplace by lack of scarcity.
It is also obvious that many of the males out here haven't a clue as well.

I do know a handful of women who will come over to take off their clothes to demonstrate that other women are not sitting on the only one in town.
They are that competitive. It is interesting to observe in some women.

There is no Oil Shortage out here. Hence women who dress like this are not that appealing to me..noted yes ... but I have no interest in trying out
for their approval or disapproval. Dressing in this manner is not to me a rare or valuable commodity in the marketplace.

I find Peace to be a much more rare and very valuable commodity to get and acquire from a woman than Piece.
Peace requires more commitment from a woman ..than does Piece. This should be obvious by the very nature or lack there of in some of the posts here on
this thread.

The difference here is location. Work. There are contractual duties by the employee tht must be maintained and followed. No one is under any
contract while walking down the street. It is my understanding that females fought for the workplace to be a gender neutral workplace.

I think you can thank the women who won that battle for workplace fairness for the more conservative approach that workplace policy dictates. It is
to safeguard the poeple working and the management.

Its a simple fact of the matter that breasts are used in a sexually pleasing ways. There is a reason why this discussion isnt about womens
elbows or ankles.

Most if not all women love their breasts fondled during sex. Its a part of foreplay. Looking, squeezing, sucking, playing, carressing and all the
other ways to touch breasts help in the arousal of the woman and man.

Thus, the reason to having them covered up during a time when sex should not be the purpose or goal of the day.

The crux of the issue is bigger than tits though.

This boils down to sexual harrassment and gender equality in the work place. Women fought hard to be treated fairly in the workplace (rightly so).
They won. So a woman with all the same rghts as a man, needs to act as a non gender, just as a man does. Their should be no distinction between man
and woman in the workplace, as prescribed by the feminist movement.

If it is respect and attention they want by showcasing their womanly qualitites, so be it. She should then be prepared for the consequences of
stepping into a gender role. Maybe they are good consequences if she uses them in a way to advance herself. Maybe they are not so good. Could wholely
depend on her attractiveness.

If she is attractive then its not fair to the other unattractve females in the workplace. And who will get the blame for that? The boss. Man or woman.
An attractive female who flaunts it may be more appealing to the man boss. An attractive female may cause jealousy with a woman boss. Or the oppossite
with an unattractive female.

Also, sexual arousal inspired from those qualities should not be judged if she wishes to show up to work in an arousing way, in my opinion.

Where is the sense of entitlement you speak of? Did I claim that private business MUST allow cleavage? No, sure did not.

And as an owner of breasts, maybe it IS entitlement, because I AM entitled to do what I please with my breats, and if others do not like it, that is
NOT my problem. Is that what you mean by entitlement?

Anyway it is a debate on the internet, please do NOT assume you know ANY personal motives, or anything personal about me as relating to this debate.
It is not about me and my breats, it is about the TOPIC of cleavage at work.

OP If I was your boss and you showed up to work with your "cleavage" and/or dressed up "provocatively" I would have thought that you were trying
to be a sex object or you are just crying out for attention.

My impression of you would be that you are a very shallow person who thinks that you will get a promotion by doing such a stunt.

Must be that most men like "Tacky" -- witness all the women who walk the streets. Class is something that is for sale today.

I could care less what most people are wearing while walking the streets....

this discussion is about appropriate work attire

My guess is you like boobs in the workplace -- look at your avatar -- you are "two faced" -- maybe "Three faced".

You apparently don't know about the "women of the streets".??

edit on 17-12-2010 by etcorngods because: (no reason given)

1) my avatar is is a representation of the multiple aspects of people, all people...
2) what does my avatar have to do with whether I do or don't like breasts in the workplace?
3) what does me liking or not liking breasts in the workplace have to do with my opinion that I don't believe that they should be flaunted in the
workplace?
4) your original statement of women walking the streets lacked the quotes of your second statement... maybe if you had included them in your original
statement, I would have seen your innuendo
5) if you have read my post throughtout this thread you would see that regardless of my personal opinion on breasts in general, you can clearly see
that I feel in a professional workplace, breasts should be kept to a minimum exposure unless the specific job had a requirement that involves
showcasing the breasts/body

After reading Most of the 20 pages of this thread.. I would have to agree with more then half the posters who say ..

Work is for work Not sex appeal or sexual attire.
Dress for work. not like your at home or walking down the street. When at work any good "boss" will tell you that your here to work not have fun or
make friends, boyfriends, etc etc..

When your not at work then you can show of your assets all you want

I enjoy showcasing my best assetts

but even saying that you have ever right to show off your better assets i ask you .. in what line of work do breasts become assets? ( besides the
obvious stripper etc etc model etc etc)

What utter claptrap. Women have boobs so get over it? So men should be able to wear those things that accentuate the penis just because they have one?
Should men wear see through pants. Can they walk around the office with an erection showing through their pants, (just because they can't hide
it?)

This is the rubbish that our future generations bring. Oh God, we are doomed.

This woman probably thinks it's ok to kill unborn babies 'out of right' and still thinks killing whales is wrong and can't see what that statement
makes her!

Where is the sense of entitlement you speak of? Did I claim that private business MUST allow cleavage? No, sure did not.

And as an owner of breasts, maybe it IS entitlement, because I AM entitled to do what I please with my breats, and if others do not like it, that is
NOT my problem. Is that what you mean by entitlement?

Anyway it is a debate on the internet, please do NOT assume you know ANY personal motives, or anything personal about me as relating to this debate.
It is not about me and my breats, it is about the TOPIC of cleavage at work.

as the owner of a company, if you do not comply with there request of proper dress attire during work, they are entitled to fire you

the company dictates what is acceptable dress attire in the workplace

if you want to show off your breasts then find a job that encourages this

Where is the sense of entitlement you speak of? Did I claim that private business MUST allow cleavage? No, sure did not.

And as an owner of breasts, maybe it IS entitlement, because I AM entitled to do what I please with my breats, and if others do not like it, that is
NOT my problem. Is that what you mean by entitlement?

Anyway it is a debate on the internet, please do NOT assume you know ANY personal motives, or anything personal about me as relating to this debate.
It is not about me and my breats, it is about the TOPIC of cleavage at work.

as the owner of a company, if you do not comply with there request of proper dress attire during work, they are entitled to fire you

the company dictates what is acceptable dress attire in the workplace

if you want to show off your breasts then find a job that encourages this

edit on 17-12-2010 by kalisdad because: format

Great reply, and it's the truth.

If I showed up to the office in baggy sweats and a t-shirt how do you think I'd be perceived?

Dress for success, that's one of the golden rules if you wish to succeed in any work environment.

Where is the sense of entitlement you speak of? Did I claim that private business MUST allow cleavage? No, sure did not.

And as an owner of breasts, maybe it IS entitlement, because I AM entitled to do what I please with my breats, and if others do not like it, that is
NOT my problem. Is that what you mean by entitlement?

Anyway it is a debate on the internet, please do NOT assume you know ANY personal motives, or anything personal about me as relating to this debate.
It is not about me and my breats, it is about the TOPIC of cleavage at work.

as the owner of a company, if you do not comply with there request of proper dress attire during work, they are entitled to fire you

the company dictates what is acceptable dress attire in the workplace

if you want to show off your breasts then find a job that encourages this

edit on 17-12-2010 by kalisdad because: format

Great reply, and it's the truth.

If I showed up to the office in baggy sweats and a t-shirt how do you think I'd be perceived?

Dress for success, that's one of the golden rules if you wish to succeed in any work environment.

Indeed, I agree with both of you,

If you can't respect the company's guidelines then why would you have even wanted that job in the first place??

Your work isn't a place to go around showing off your "assets" to everyone.

I am fairly confident that you would be hired to do the specific task required.

Where is the sense of entitlement you speak of? Did I claim that private business MUST allow cleavage? No, sure did not.

You complained that being asked to cover your cleavage at work was "oppressive, and a conspiracy against women".

And as an owner of breasts, maybe it IS entitlement, because I AM entitled to do what I please with my breats, and if others do not like it,
that is NOT my problem. Is that what you mean by entitlement?

Do you accord you male colleagues the same right to do what they please with their penises, regardless of whether or not others like it?

Anyway it is a debate on the internet, please do NOT assume you know ANY personal motives, or anything personal about me as relating to this
debate. It is not about me and my breats, it is about the TOPIC of cleavage at work.

You made this about yourself when you stated the following in the OP.

Personally, here is how I feel. Being asked to cover up my cleavage, when the office does not require uniforms, is oppressive, and a conspiracy
against women. Women have breasts. Some women, like me, have rather large breasts. I love my breasts, they are a part of me I refuse to hide them.
Many of my shirts are V cut, because I enjoy showcasing my best assetts, and I would hope that my work would be what people judge, not my breasts.

I can't help wondering at any woman, however great her breasts may be, considering them to be her best asset. Normally it's only the most
ultra-sexist males who judge a woman on her breasts.

Have you insured them?
What are you going to do when they sag to knee level, as big breasts are inclined to do?
- Sue gravity for being sexist because it was unable to keep something up?

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
There is no reason for a woman to be showing off her breasts in the workplace, unless she is a stripper. Men don't generally wear shirts to show off
their pecs; neither should women show off their breasts.

edit on 16-12-2010 by InvisibleAlbatross because: (no reason given)

Exactley right InvisibleA. Don't want to sound to old fashioned here but what makes people think breasts are any different than anyother private
part. They should be covered up especially in the work place. You don't see guy's walking around in spandex just to show off the size of there junk.
I like looking at some nice ta-ta's much as the next guy but it's a distraction, and sort of makes the woman look like a floozie. There is a time
and a place for it, plus I see enough of it on billboards, T.V., at the store, movies, video games etc. etc. etc.

While I can understand your point with absolute agreement in what an image is to a company. I'll invite you to be realistic when it comes to the
average man walking into a lawfirm and requesting an introduction to a lawyer.

Let's say he visits two law firms, one has a secretary with large breasts, perky, and showing a decent amount of cleavage, that equipped with her
short skirt, favorably colored eyes, straightened hair with just a dash of highlights, skin soft like melted icecream, tanned to perfection, not
bronze, but just perfect...

The lawyer himself shows a presentable reputation, and gives numerous grand expectations to the client, showing that he is the right man for the
job.

And then he visits one where a women with the same body, is but she's covered from head to toe, wearing a burqa or a mask, no cleavage, no skirt,
it's pants, shoes...

The lawyer here shows an equally presentable reputation, and gives an equal expectation to the client.

Now the client is left with a choice.

Where do you think this man is going to visit again... the office who can get the job and also has an attractive secretary?... or the office who can
get the job down but who's secretary is completely covered from head to toe?

Sexiness Sells...
This is the world we live in...
People who actually have money to spend want to spend it where there are attractive modern people...
Look at night clubs... they are reaming with cute girls, but still a business. Are they now an "innapropriate" business?
Even a regular business may do this because they know that attractive employees sell the image that 1. the company is healthy and 2. the company is
attractive and attracts attractive people.

We're not in the 50's anymore, people. Women have natural beauty that men crave and they use it. It's they're god-given nature's gift. And you
want to conceal it because you deem it unprofessional, by what... today's standards? if we even have one that is... Old people go to business with
old people working there. Sexy people go to business with sexy people working there.

All in all, this arguement or debate, or whatever you want to categorize it is kind of useless, because when it all comes to writing in stone, it's
all about what ImaginaryReality1984 said: An "image". If the company wants a sexy image, they'll let the women wear what they want, if the company
wants an old 1950's feel, they'll ask you to cover up. It's sad but people are so programmed, that it's almost impossible to change the system at
this point.

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