I would like to have Cali Kids assesment and their opinion out there of him

I don't have that much to add. I think most people in the Bay Area would say "you can have him!" but 9er fans hated the entire staff last year (for obvious reasons). Most of the anger however went tword Erickson (HC) Donahue (GM) and York (owner). When the fans & press went after the coaching they pretty much went after Erickson.

Like many of you I was pulling for McCarthy, but I do slighty perfer Tollner to Trestman. As for Tollner's performance last year, the 9ers roaster turned out to be so bad I don't know if any OC could have looked impresive no matter what the system they ran. IMO the poor play was almost entirly due to sub par players and the coaching staff wound up being a scapegoat for a stupid front office (althogh Donahue was fired as well). With that said the coaching staff, including Tollner did NOTHING to impress anyone, and I'm less than thrilled by the hire. But really I beleive that the offence will always be constructed 90% by Mooch anyway so this doen't bother me all that much.

Like Silversuger I think the posibility of bringing in Garcia just became a little more likly (thoughts?). And like Wags I think the presure is on Mooch to produce next year. I think they know they should have had more than 6 wins this year, and IMO if Mooch can't turn in a winning season soon I too think he could be in trouble. Alhough my take on Millen makes me beleive that it would have to be a nightmare of a season for Mooch to get fired. Thoughts?

January 26th, 2005, 9:51 pm

California Kid

Varsity Benchwarmer

Joined: November 15th, 2004, 4:05 amPosts: 203

Re: Bad choice

conversion02 wrote:

Hey everyone, new to this board but a life long lions fan. I think this is a bad choice for the Lions and I was getting excited to finally see a playoff season, especially with all the talk about Moss leaving Minn and the Packers losing a lot of players to FA. I don't think this will happen with Tollner as the OC. I don't see why he won't run his "conservative offense" in Detroit. That's what he ran in SF because of a lack of talent, but as much as Mooch dislikes Joey, Tollner won't be confident in him and the play calling will be conservative...no deep passes and more running. Which I can deal with the running but not those damn 3 yard passes.

For what it's worth Erickson/Tollner wanted a more verticle passing game last year, but with the lack of O-line and weak armed QB's this plan didn't really work well.

January 26th, 2005, 10:03 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10136Location: Where ever I'm at now

If everyone must know, I was hoping that Greg Olson, the Lions QB coach, would get the job. He was the offensive play caller that last three games of the season. Those last three games Harrington snapped out of his slump and seemed pretty comfortable with the play calling and had two 300+ yard games.
As for Tollner, he has lead offenses in some pretty potent teams. He was with the Bills when Jim Kelly was throwing them into the SuperBowl, and he was also an assistant of Don Coryell at SDSU. Ted was the OC for Coryell when he was running the college version of 'Air Coryell' prior to his going on to coach Fouts with the Chargers.
I know many people think this is Mariucci bringing in someone who doesn't pose a threat to him as the HC and will succomb to his style of offense. I see it completely different. Ted has coached vertical style passing schemes and was brought into San Fran AFTER Mooch was released. He was asked to add some life to the boring style WCO Mariucci had been running in the Bay. This could be a good thing, and it may have been Millen who forced the issue moreso than Mariucci. I think Steve has been under fire from Millen to start moving the ball downfield more.

January 26th, 2005, 11:46 pm

lionsfanak

5th Round Pick - Traded

Joined: November 15th, 2004, 7:24 amPosts: 1055Location: Alaska

I think I better check the water up here. I have looked around a little concerning this hire........speachless...........I think there were some better options out there. But hey, that's why they get paid to do it and I don't. Here I sit looking forward to a new season, full of hope, that maybe we will see something new and innovative like the K-Gun was or Air Coryel was in it's day, as long as it's successful.

But then again, I've been doing this for years and haven't been satisfied yet...........The Life of a Lions Fan.............

January 27th, 2005, 12:53 am

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12312

California Kid wrote:

Like Silversuger I think the posibility of bringing in Garcia just became a little more likly (thoughts?). And like Wags I think the presure is on Mooch to produce next year. I think they know they should have had more than 6 wins this year, and IMO if Mooch can't turn in a winning season soon I too think he could be in trouble. Alhough my take on Millen makes me beleive that it would have to be a nightmare of a season for Mooch to get fired. Thoughts?

I agree that we may just see Garcia here to compete with/mentor Joey, which I can see as a good thing.
I think that Mooch had better put up a .500 record at the very least. Millen had been praising Mooch ever since before he was hired as GM and now that he has him and he's went 11-21 the past 2 years it not looking good for either of them (but at least Millen is the boss and can fire Mooch to save his job, if it comes to that). I really think that if Mooch has another 6-10 or worse year, he could be shown the door. I'm not sure that the Fords and Millen will be that patient with him or his staff, of course a lot would depend on who would be available for HC after next season. (Tuna???)

After dong a bit more research and learning a bot more about Tollner (and after the initial shock), I not as upset as I was about the hiring. I'm still not happy, maybe it just takes time to sink in. I see that Tollner does have a lot of experience is several types of offenses (Air Coryell, K-Gun, WCO) and maybe he, along with this staff, can implement something good for us. I'm sure that Joey would be a lot happier if he were able to go more verticle.

But, soft! What light through yonder window breaks?
It is the west, and Ted is the sun!
Arise fair sun and kill the envious mooch,
Who is already sick and pale with grief
That thou his maid are more fair than he.
Be not his maid, since he is envious.
His west coast offense is but sick and green,
And none but fools do wear it. Cast it off.

Seriously, lets hope that Ted gets his vertical offense on and Mooch will let someone else get a little love besides himself.

_________________"If he isn't the best football player, the best runner, that the Lord has ever made, then the Lord has yet to make one." Wayne Fontes on Barry.

January 27th, 2005, 9:10 am

theAlphaMale

Site Admin

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 1:25 amPosts: 4920Location: Hills of Auburn

I was cool with Olson too. I am not a Joey fan but the last 3 games impressed me more than he had in the past. He was consistently agressive. He seems more accurate on the long ball than the 6 yarders IMO.

Not to mention I wouldn't mind seeing Olsons daughters on the sideline

_________________Regards, Alpha|Lionbacker.com \(^o^)/"I date this girl for two years and then the nagging starts: I wanna know your name..." - Mike Binder

But, soft! What light through yonder window breaks? It is the west, and Ted is the sun! Arise fair sun and kill the envious mooch, Who is already sick and pale with grief That thou his maid are more fair than he. Be not his maid, since he is envious. His west coast offense is but sick and green, And none but fools do wear it. Cast it off.

btw Bsand...I shed it tear...that was so beautiful

And just WOW about that article from San Fran. Makes us look like we picked up Sam Bowie over MJ or something. I mean hell...gimme the job and I will carry his clipboard and say, "Yes Sir". I will work for half of what he makes as well.

_________________Regards, Alpha|Lionbacker.com \(^o^)/"I date this girl for two years and then the nagging starts: I wanna know your name..." - Mike Binder

January 27th, 2005, 2:48 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10136Location: Where ever I'm at now

If what it said in that article is true, and Mooch simply went out and got a 'yes man' in Tollner, Steve better pray his offense starts scoring some points this year. After watching Harrington the last three games of the season throwing for big yards with the plays being called by Olson, I am starting to become convinced that Mariucci is using Joey as the scapegoat for the poor play calling and offensive schemes.

IMO Mariucci has been a bigger disappointment thus far than any player on the squad, including Harrington and Kalimba Edwards.

January 27th, 2005, 3:52 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12312

Quote:

I am starting to become convinced that Mariucci is using Joey as the scapegoat for the poor play calling and offensive schemes

I've feel starting to feel the same thing....if that is the case, then what do you think his goal is??? Just collect a paycheck??? or to sabotage Millen???

Quote:

IMO Mariucci has been a bigger disappointment thus far than any player on the squad, including Harrington and Kalimba Edwards

I hear ya

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

January 27th, 2005, 4:02 pm

theAlphaMale

Site Admin

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 1:25 amPosts: 4920Location: Hills of Auburn

Stoney & Wojo had a discussion about what things are both the best and worst of someone. Wojo said of Mooch that his stubborness to deviate from his plan was the worst and at the same time great. It took a great while for him to move to a featured back and that was frustrating especially seeing how well KJ did later in the year. But at the same time how crazy would it drive you if he pulled a Denny Green by starting some many different QBs in Arizona.

I think when we have these guys all clicking Mooch will not look like such a schmoe.

_________________Regards, Alpha|Lionbacker.com \(^o^)/"I date this girl for two years and then the nagging starts: I wanna know your name..." - Mike Binder