Have We Seen The Last of Andrew Toles?

Dodger spring training is well underway with all of the players already reported and accounted for. All of the Dodgers are present except for outfielder Andrew Toles. The Dodgers recently announced that Toles would not be arriving to Glendale because of some kind of personal matter. Reports indicate that nobody knows if and when Toles will show up to spring training. This makes me wonder if this could be the end of Andrew Toles’ Dodger career?

I hope Toles is ok and it’s none of our business what type of personal matter he has to attend to. I wish him well and hope that he’s ok, wherever he is. There has been another question that has crossed my mind. Does Toles have a place on the 2019 Dodgers roster? Perhaps the Dodgers should flip him to another team that can give him some regular playing time.

The Dodgers are not in the position to do that. He’s blocked at all three outfield spots. Newly signed A.J. Pollock will be manning center field. Cody Bellinger will patrol in right field, while left field will likely be some kind of platoon between Joc Pederson, Alex Verdugo, Enrique Hernandez, and or Chris Taylor, when Taylor and Hernandez are not playing other positions. Or the Dodgers could possibly even acquire somebody from outside the organization before spring training ends to play left field. My opinion is I would love to see Verdugo get the lion’s share of playing time in left field anyways.

Time will tell how that will work out, but it’s always been my observation that not only do the Dodgers not think much of Toles, but his ceiling seems to be of a fourth or fifth outfielder. Again I like Toles, but there are other better, more productive and more experienced players that will be getting the regular playing time. This is just the way it is. That’s baseball folks and poor Toles is kind of the odd man out.

Toles has never really been given the chance to play on a regular basis. I’m sure that he would probably put up consistent numbers if given the chance, but he won’t get that with the Dodgers. To be fair to management, we’ve seen his numbers decline over the past two seasons. After Toles went from bagging groceries and general obscurity to slashing .314/.365./.505 with 3 home runs and a 132 OPS+ in 115 plate appearances in 2016 it appeared that he was making his mark with the Dodgers.

But after only 31 games and 102 plate appearances in 2017 Toles tore his knee while diving for a ball in Dodger Stadium left field and was never the same since then. The 2018 season saw him bat just .233 while going 7 for 30 in 32 plate appearances. He was never able to regain that momentum.

With Toles out indefinitely the Dodgers will have an extra roster spot available for a right handed hitting player who can roam the outfield. Perhaps one of their non-roster guys can step up and surprise us. Until then it’s possible that we may have seen the last of Andrew Toles for a long time or possibly forever. We won’t forget his .462 performance in the 2016 NLCS. That’s the Andrew Toles we’ve known and respected. Here’s hoping Toles makes his way back to Dodger Stadium somehow, and the Dodgers find a place for him.

63 thoughts on “Have We Seen The Last of Andrew Toles?”

A really tough spot for Toles, all he has done since joining the Dodgers is hit at every level. For some reason, he just can’t get a real shot in LA.

The Dodgers announced this morning that they have nothing to announce, they will have no announcements on any moves made to strengthen the big league squad. They will have no further announcements about not having any announcements.

I wish Toles well. I guess the addition of Pollock, and possiblity of Verdugo getting his chance, more or less sealed the fate of Toles with the Dodgers, who even though might have made opening day roster, probably would be cemented to the bench in a reserve role. Maybe Toles saw the writing on the wall, and could not deal with it.

We can only speculate why Toles is late to ST. But, with Toles’ checkered past in baseball, I think the Dodgers may have no patience to deal with Toles anymore. I doubt if any teams would be willing to take a chance on him, as well. Too bad. He has the tools, just needs playing time, and maybe attitude adjustment.

I think Bellinger’s defensive talents will be wasted in RF, although he may be their best option at this point. I would rather see him return to 1B, but then where do you put Muncy? Once again, the Dodgers are stacked with talent, and will no doubt be forced to platoon the OF, 1B, and 2B. Seven players, and only 3 open spots in the lineup. Seven fully capable players who need consistant playing time to be at their best.

Lots of “if’s”…. Will CT3 be able to return to his old self and become an every day 2B-man? Will Pollock be capable to hold down the everyday CF spot? Will Muncy sharpen his game, and be a consistant force, offensively and defensively at 1B? Bellinger needs to refine his approach at the plate and cut down on KO’s and non-productive at-bats…. can he do that?

I believe Kiké is the perfect “rover” INF/OF utility option. I would like to see Pederson get more playing time….. he is a strong 4th outfielder option. I believe Verdugo will have a breakout season, if given the opportunity to play often.

Bluefan4Life, I concur about Bellinger with him being better served at 1st, his Gold Glove Poosition. With the plethora of LHB already here, in addition to Bellinger and the return of Seager, we have Joc, Muncy, Verdugo, which meant being just another LH hitter, there really was no real room for him here.

I concur, Mexivin completerly. Muncy is a defensive liability and belongs in the AL. No matter what took place last year, it’s pitiful to have to see Bellinger removed from his natural position just to accommodate a player, who will NOT come close to his numbers of last year. pitchers will and have already made adjustments to him.

Because of Kike’s 2nd half season stats in general, in my mind, he is the best choice as a starting 2Bman. He deserves a shot. He is a very good defensman at almost every position they put him in. If they are bent on starting Cody in the outfield, I wouldn’t mind seeing Muncy at 1B, or 2B, with Kike at 2B or LF. Muncy will improve even further, defensively, with regular play. He has the desire for success. We saw it last season in a terrific breakout performance that helped the Dodgers into winning the division and getting to the WS! How can any of you deny this?

Many on here don’t see Muncy repeating last year’s showing but wss. The issue for me again is the abundance of LHB on the team and the team’s current struggles against LHP as a whole. They got by in the regular season but when it counted the most…in the WS they were no match for Boston’s elite LHP. Granted there were other reasons for Dodgers losing this WS too.

Bellinger is one of the best athletes in the organization. He looks like an outfielder to me. He got hurt out there. So what? He could get hurt on a dance floor too. Don’t let him dance? Please. Fact is we still have too many starting outfielders. Been that way for a while. It’s our depth. Verdugo deserves a shot. Bellinger could very well be the best of all of them. Joc deserves to play Obviously Pollock is a starter. Taylor and Hernandez are both excellent defenders. It will work itself out. Nobody gets 650 PAs but all of them could get 450. We’ll live with it … or make a move.

Badger. I was getting to the point where I thought Bellinger in Cf was best for the team. I cannot make that case for just any old outfield spot. It seems Bellinger is being pegged as a utility outfielder when 1B is his best position. Coming off a sophomore slump at the plate you’d think they would play him where he is most comfortable. 1B. You could make the case for him being comfortable in CF, but not the corner outfield spots. I’d even go so far as to say he is STILL the best CF on the team. But they paid Pollock (who I also like, no offense to him) so they have to play him.

Bellinger has shown he can handle CF and possibly could if Pollock needs a day off or is injured. But please, no going back and forth on a daily basis, as that i believe would affect his performance at the plate. And he has already shown to be a Gold Glove 1st baseman. Muncy, IMHO belongs in the AL where he can DH.

mexvin, let’s see…1B, 2B, Rf, Lf and of curse catching, which is a 2 player position anyway. And if Pollock is injured, add CF to that mix. It’s all why that again, we were no match for Boston in the WS and this year, contrary to popular belief the Division is not a lock by any means and won’t simply be handed to this team.

Unfortunately, Bellinger is young and also the most versatile player. I agree that his best position is 1B. He is comfortable at 1B, and therefore had one less thing to worry about, so he could concentrate on his offense.

When you are versatile as he is, defensively, he gets shuffled around to accomodate one dimensional players like Pollock, Pederson, and Muncy. I too, feel that this shuffling around has to have a negative impact on his offensive capabilities. It is not fair to Bellinger, but now days, what is fair?

Once again, a prime example of FO mismanagement. They need to start from scratch, establish a starting lineup with players at their strongest positions, stick with them, and then build their team around them, with solid role players. It will be a shame to lose players like Pederson and Muncy, but you have to do what is best for the team. Does Pollock get the starting CF position, just because he is paid more than the other outfielders? Bellinger’s performance suffers at the expense of others.

Bellinger is an athlete, his best position is wherever you pencil him in the line-up. Yes he is great at 1B, but yes he is great in the OF, any OF position. Shit, he could probably be our closer if he put in some time. The point is, he is a stud and really can play super well anywhere.

Trouble is Blue, Belli has said he is NOT COMFORTABLE in the corner outfield spots. It was obvious when he has played left. Right is a whole different look. Especially at Dodger Stadium. Those low walls and the concrete around the base of the wall increase the chances of injury. Belli was injured playing RF in Detroit, and in my mind it cost him his shot at 40 homers that year because he was out for 10 games. They cannot afford to lose Bellinger for any length of time. He has the arm to play right, but I think he is better served playing first. And it makes the teams infield defense that much better. I care less about all those who say 1st is the least important spot on the infield,. that is moronic. Yeah, they put some pretty bad fielders over there to hide their weak gloves or as in Garvey’s case, erratic arms. But a great defender at 1st, makes you all that much better. I wonder how many infielders when Dick Stuart, Dr Strangeglove to those who remember, wish that they had a slick fielding guy over there to catch some of those errant throws. Muncy is a defensive liability at 1st, no matter how well he manages to hit. He has said he is more comfortable at second, and although he does not have great range, his stats say he is better there. He is terrible at 1st and 3rd. Muncy is not going to provide the same length or scoop and catch skills that Belli has. I say play a player where he serves the team best. Play Bellinger at 1st, platoon Muncy at second, and let real outfielders patrol the grass…..and Toles will most likely never wear a Dodger uni again…..Oh yeah, in case you needed a reminder, Toles was hurt playing left…….

Well, I can’t argue that Bellinger can play multiple defensive positions and no doubt play them well. I’m looking at the players we have here now and what makes the most sense. Muncy. Muncy forces some decision making. If Muncy weren’t here, then I would say Bellinger at first every night and rifle armed Verdugo is in right every night. But Muncy IS here and he has to play. I don’t know what the correct answer is, but from my Lazy Boy I put Muncy at first yesterday and I hire the best first base coach out there and the two of them work 4 hours a day learning everything first base. The other 4 hours he’s hitting. It’s my opinion that first base is the easiest position on the infield. If all he had to do was learn first base he could do it. You ask a guy like him to learn two positions, and one is a middle infield position, you are asking for trouble.

But, this is the new wave Dodgers and they are about everybody on the team getting equal playing time, and nearly every position player playing multiple positions. First base will be platooned, Bellinger will be moved around, the outfield will have a different look every other day, Seager will probably get lots of days off early, Turner won’t play 135 games, second base might see 3 different guys, we will have 11 different starters and even more relievers …. and we win the West with a week to spare. But I don’t see 95 wins. I’ll go with under on that figure.

Totally agree, as you all know (couldn’t help myself Badger)I have been saying that for years.

Fresh out of BrokeBack Ranch, 2/21/2018: The Dodgers would like to officially announce that they will not be making any announcements regarding roster or management personnel today. However stay tuned a very important announcement regarding ballpark food-fare is forthcoming today. We believe that this matter of food offerings in the park may be one of the most significant announcements that we have made thus far this off-season, Stay Tuned.

One final thing, we will still not make any announcements regarding Chris Woodward being a complete asshole and punk ass bitch.

Had I been paying attention to what you have been writing for years I may have indeed known that. But honestly I don’t remember. I was the first to start talking about Jansen pitching before the 9th inning. Not many responded. I posted it again. Nothing. Then somebody threatened to shoot me, I believed him, so I left.

Food is important.

I expect an announcement every day now. Most will be noise just to keep us looking

We all know that any ballplayer will be stronger, productive, and consistant with more playing time.

We also know that will never happen with the Dodgers.

The team is not structured at this time, to give any players more playing time at any one particular position (except for JT, Seager, and Pollock), and Management is not ready to dis “Platooning”, even if they say they would. DR will be forced to use his Ouija board lineup again, this year. “AND” JT, Seager and Pollock also are the most vulnerable to re-injury, as far as staying healthy all season.

You can coach a player all you want and you might make him a little better and you might not. Muncy is not built like a quality 1st baseman should be. Neither was Garvey, but he did adapt well to the position. Muncy is not that kind of athlete. Of course it makes no difference what we think. Management and ownership have their own ideas. They like Muncy at first….I really do not like Muncy at first. But that is just me. When a player says as Muncy has, that he feels more comfortable at second, I am going to take him at his word. His stats at the position seem to verify those statements. Granted, it is not a large sample size. But the sample size at first says Muncy is not very good there or at 3rd. That was one reason I was hoping that the Commissioner would have made the DH universal this year. End of conflict and problem solved. I am pretty tired of watching pitchers flail away for nothing. Oh yeah, once in a while Kersh gets a hit, or Ryu, and even Hill has had one or two. But I just think it is going to come sooner or later. Sooner would be better for the Dodgers along with expanding the rosters.

Sure, DH is swell. Where else in professional sports can you see a player who is way over the hill or otherwise cannot compete on the field as an all around player get paid millions? That’s why the MLBPA wants the DH to create more jobs in a trade for a 26 man roster. Why have a manager after the lineup card is made out? Send him down to the deli to get the after game buffet ready.

I love the traditional NL way of play where the manager has to make decisions to leave a pitcher in or not in a crucial situation. A manager’s decision could change the outcome of the game. I like that chess match between managers as it adds some human touch to offset the analytical printouts of the front office.

I might be a cold blooded bastard, but I have no sympathy for these guys. They are paid a lot of money to play a game. I wish I would have had their talent. I sure as hell would not have wasted my opportunities. I like Toles, I always thought he battled from a bad place and made it to the big’s. Bad luck has kind of dogged the guy because he has some pretty decent talent. It always looked to me like he was not really having all that much fun out there.

Loved when Managers actually “Managed”. Given the free will to make decisions and out-strategize the opposing skipper. Today, with “ANAL”-ytics they play right into the opposing team’s hands. They no longer roll the dice, they assume the spreadsheets are accurate.

As far as DH, I do not like it. Not how the game was intended to be played. There is much “strategy” involved with the pitcher’s spot in the lineup… a very critical part of the game, which would be lost with the implementation of DH. Also do not like the idea of paying these players millions to just bat.

LMAO 😂. What ever happened to just a good old Dodger Dog, a beer and a box of cracker jacks?

You want sushi? You want BBQ? You want fancy beers? You want gourmet Dogs? You want burritos? Stay home… You come to see a baseball game, or stuff you face with overpriced fancy foods and drinks that don’t even make the grade? Better off going to a restaurant to get the real thing at a reasonable price. I’m just sayin’.

As far as Woodard, glad he is gone. Made too many mistakes as 3rd base coach. Cost the Dodgers a lot of games.

I get it Duke, and I was that way for years. But the game has changed, the AL is not going to change from the DH. And not as many of them are over the hill guys anymore. Oh maybe Cruz is. But JD Martinez is just in his early 30’s and he had lead for a glove, but the boy can hit. As far as strategy goes, two Al teams beat the Dodgers at their own game by pummeling them. Martinez and Pearce were much better DH’s than what the Dodgers threw out there. And when 4 of your games have to be played in the AL’s park, you had better have someone who can swing the stick. Against the Stros it did not make that much difference. In the 2018 series, the Dodgers hit 6 homers. nobody hit more than 1. Only 2 players hit over .300 for the series, Turner and Freese. The Red Sox hit 8 and Pearce hit 3 of them. They were just totally over matched. The smirk had 4 hits, all singles, Muncy struck out 23 times in the playoffs….shades of Bellinger.

Bear
You must have forgotten that if the DH is implemented in the NL, the Dodgers with their lousy FO will have who knows who in the DH spot? They won’t spend money for pitchers and position players so who would think they would on a DH? I guess with Dummy 1 managing that the team would be better off with the DH than him making the many decisions that he does? Me, I want it to stay the same with a little bit of good ole baseball. If you want better hitters in the pitchers spot, trade for them or use Free agency. Of course we know our FO lead by Dummy2 would just make it worse than it is with a bigger roster. No, they have caused enough havoc.

Pack, they have two pretty good DH candidates on the roster right now, Freese and Muncy. And I understand your frustration with the owners and the FO. But one thing you need to remember ok? Both Friedman and Roberts are doing exactly what their employers want them to do. The DH is coming my friend whether you or I like it or not. All of sports have morphed into something different than they were when we were younger. Home plate collisions in baseball are a thing of the past. They have rules protecting the infielders from players sliding into them on purpose, now known as the Utley rule. Baseball has been slower to change than any of them. The last to institute re-play, now they do not have challenge flags, but they can challenge calls. Now MLB wants to speed up the game, so they are using pitch clocks in spring training. 20 seconds between pitches. The bigger rosters is more for the players union than anything else. 1 more paid player on each team is a big boost for them, and it does make sense in some ways as would the players not available for a specific game like they do in basketball. But for that to happen, the rosters would need to be boosted to at least 28, and you name 3 players who are not eligible to play that night. Saves DL, excuse me they changed that, IL time. Roberts is what he is my friend, and unless he totally screws up, you are stuck with him for the next 4 years. You going to spend the next 4 years calling him dummy? That is going to get a little redundant, and you can bet that Friedman is going to get a new deal also. So, enjoy the game, do not get so caught up in what goes on that you have no control over such as player moves and all, and chill my friend…there is nothing you or I can do to change what is and will be. Complaining about it all the time is just going to make it worse. I recognize it is your right to do so. But it is time to redirect your ire…..

Norris – Yep, the Dodgers couldn’t hit during the WS last year. None of them. Period. How is having a DH help that? Sometimes you have to give due where warranted. We were out pitched and out hit as a team by an outstanding opponent who hit the ball off our pitchers, even the other eight guys on the Red Sox who did not play DH. So what’s your point? IMHO the DH stinks and takes away from a manager’s strategy, unless the manager is Don Mattingly. I reiterate, the DH is a retirement plan by the MLBPA for players who can only master half the game.

The DH is coming and I’m betting all but a couple of pitchers welcome it. The futility of pitchers hitting is an embarrassment to baseball. They don’t even try anymore. Most fans support the DH. I’m fine with it. It beats watching pitchers hit.

Well Badger, your claim that ” most fans support the DH” sounds like a “fact” from the mouth of Donald Trump. I prefer real facts such as the Public Policy Polling finding of May 12, 2016 found here:
Forbes.com/sites/setheverett/2018/11/05/poll-indicates-fans-dont-like-baseballs-dh-rule/#32790005661a

By the way, anyone involved in politics knows PPP is a very reputable polling firm. Their findings showed 65% of those people describing themselves as “baseball fans” OPPOSED the DH.

My point is that whether or not those of us who have always liked the NL style like it or not, it is coming, and most likely next year. Why? Maybe because the commissioner is all for it and seems to think it is a good bargaining tool for the MLBPA> Fans don’t like a lot of things about the game, but that has not stopped MLB from implementing them anyway. I never thought the Dodgers would beat the Sox. They were over matched period, and all I am saying is that the NL has played without the DH all these years, but now may be the time for a change. I hated it when the so called Buster Posey rule was implemented so a catcher could no longer block the plate and take the consequences. Don;t blame the changes on me.

Badger, with all due respect, the Forbes article is written in English. It plainly says in part, of those who describe themselves as baseball fans, 65% oppose the DH. Public Policy Polling, May 12, 2016. It cannot be any more simple than how it is written.

I was able to separately google the PPP poll you referenced and it was there. I don’t believe it’s current, as a poll I recently read said it was 50.1 in favor. Most AL fans like it of course, old NL fans probably don’t. I know I didn’t want it for years. Like I said, I believe if adopted most fans would accept it. That is just an opinion. Certainly not worth fighting over.

May 2016…..three years ago almost. To really see where fans stand on the issue today would be the only way to really know what the percentages are. I have always been a fan of the way the NL played the game. Sticking to tradition and playing old style hard ball. But that game is gone. Stealing, bunting, all those things are afterthoughts in today’s game. Back in the day they were offensive weapons. The Reds let their best base stealer walk. Bluto made a statement on here not to long ago, and if this was not you Bluto please correct me, he said that stealing bases was selfish. I do not get that. It has always been a part of the game, and a really good base stealer like Henderson or Wills or any other old time speedster you could think of, disrupted the pitchers rhythm. Too many strikeouts, too many players trying to elevate the ball all the time. Thats what baseball is today. The oversized shifts, all the stat driven moves….it is not the game of my youth. I and all of the other fans of the game have to accept these changes whether we like them or not because this is what we are going to see when we go to games and on our TV sets when we watch from home. It is just the way it is.

You’re right Bear. 3 years feels like a long time ago in baseball. 3 years ago we hadn’t been to a World Series in decades.

Things change.

One thing that doesn’t is the fact pitchers don’t give a rat’s ass about working on hitting. That slash line is ridiculous. Put a slugger in that spot. Of course that would mean fans would have to find another time to grab concessions and hit the head. When pitchers are due up is when people leave their seats to care of business.

It is totally illogical for one League to have the DH and the other, not have it. No other pro sport that I know of is played different in each league. Not Basketball, Hockey, Football, or Soccer. In Tennis, every country follows the rules of tennis which are the same for all.

Personally, I want the DH. Even if the AL did not have it, I still think it is better for baseball and better for the fans.

Regarding Roberts. Roberts is a smart man. He knows the game. I regret to call him a mere puppet, as he does what his bosses say. The bosses pull the strings.

I’m sure that if he could cut those puppet strings, he would. All that being said, With all the restraints imposed on him by the ownership and Friedman, he has done a terriffic job, because he is smart, he has the respect of his players, and he keeps his cool. He is not perfect, as I am guilty of criticizing him many times, but over all he has my respect, as well. He can only work with the cards as the are dealt. He has no control over what Friedman does.

Friedman… the fact that he truely is a brainless dummy, and also is basically a puppet too, is detrimental to the team’s success. He is not smart enough to deal with his restraints, and is just a typical “Yes Man” to the ownership and just buries his head in his stacks of spreadsheets.

So, Bluefan, how many occupations do you know of that don’t have to answer to someone? And, if it is not directly your employer or supervisor, it will be someone in this world you will have to answer to. You shouldn’t generalize anyone being a yes man if you are not privy to the kind of relationship that was agreed to. The fan can never know the inside workings and what the org is thinking about or planning in the future.

Of course that’s Andrew Friedman the Fintech Entrepreneur, Blockchain Engineer CEO/Founder of The Cyber Dreaming Network…. I have no idea how smart our Andy is.

Roberts was a role player most of his 10 seasons. He got over 500 plate appearances only once, when he played in 129 games in ‘06. It makes sense that he would value role players. It also makes sense he would do what management expects of him.

I am also for the electronic strike zone. Takes the guessing out of it and makes it much less personal. Tennis is a good example of replaying electronically whether a ball is in or out when challenged. These kinds of innovations enhance the sport. No one questions whether the outcome of these electronic apps. They are without personality.

So right, BlueFan, IQ is an intelligence thing, not necessarily a smart thing. Having intelligence doesn’t mean that good decisions are always made (doing the smart thing), often times just the opposite. I’ve worked with many doctors that were brilliant in the books and practice of medicine, but absolute idiots when it came to business dealings, investment dealings and actually working with people. I’ve also been around some very high IQ people that were total social retards (very often the case actually). IQ has to be applied correctly in order to be effective.

It was a joke. There is an Andrew Friedman who is all those things I posted, but I made up his IQ figure. I thought it was funny….. does that make me pretentious?

Friedman is what he has proven to be. He’s got several years of GM’n to analyze. His record is pretty good. Got an EOY Award. Made the playoffs a lot. 0fer as far as a championship.

Bluto I loooked at the MLB pipeline and only saw 4 Dodgers on it. Padres have 10, and 4 of them ranked higher than any Dodger prospect. The Padres got it going on. But…. I heard they are going back to the butt ugly brown uniforms? Maybe they will go with midnight brown. With bright yellow trim. That might work

May 2016 was the latest poll any reputable polling company ran a question on the question of the DH. Polling by companies with long track records is very expensive. They don’t just throw a $50K poll in the field for grins and chuckles, somebody pays for it or it doesn’t get done. None of us ponied up the bucks since 2016 but I’m guessing not many have changed their position in the last two years because they were mesmerized by watching half a baseball player get his butt off the bench and saunter up to the plate to swing at a ball he couldn’t pick up if it were dribbling toward him in the field.