Fernando Alonso has made the best of a difficult race that started in extremely difficult conditions. Alonso ran faultless, and profited from both Red Bull's not finishing to take the championship lead. Lewis Hamilton came in second, with Massa securing a great result for Ferrari in 3rd place.

Terrible3 wrote:Please everyone note that in the crash mark took his lands off the wheel, no sense in braking your fingers right? Anyways on impact the wheel turned full lock right when the front left wheel made contact with the wall. At this point had Mark done nothing the car would have tried to back right up across the track leading to an accident. Mark grabs the wheel after the impact just and the car starts to roll back and tries to turn hard left. The idea here being that if the wheel is turned left the car will back into the wall rather than the track. In the video you can clearly see that as he attempts to turn left after the impact that he can not complete this action since clearly something is broken ( steering link or rack I am no expert) since you can see the wheel suddenly stop mid input. At this point Mark is unable to prevent the car from rolling onto the track since the steering is broken. He is simply a passenger and the car is going cross the track regardless of Marks input. This in the end leads to a crash. If Mark wanted to take someone out he would have held full lock right the whole time in an attempt to back the car out across the racing line. Its not often I defend Mark, but in this instance he has done no wrong.

I fully agree. but apart from all that, people seem to ignore the fact that the front wheel was not even on the ground, and the car was sliding on its plank, so all the steering input in the world, could not have prevented the car taking the course it did. "There are none so blind as those who do not want to see"

ringo wrote:After surviving that crash in Valencia, Mark knows first hand how sturdy his cockpit is. He'll take a whack for the championship.As i said in previous threads, this isn't the last we've seen of webber crashing into someone.

repeat quoute.

Webber was a fool not to use his brakes. He will make the same mistake again, but this time with another driver.

We may not know how, we may not know when, but he'll do it again!

This might be what you want to believe Ringo but it won't make it fact or even true. There was no evidence that Webber was doing anything other than letting his car drift backwards so he could rejoin pointing in the right direction. That's what racing drivers do.

Repeating what you want to believe enough times so that you think it becomes fact descends quickly into trolling............

Sorry for joining late but the FACT IS Webber spitefully free-wheeled his car back onto the track! You have to be blind to not see that the steering direction changed and the brakes were let off after he hit the wall. No point in arguing this as the telemetry WILL prove it. That is why Horner's only excuse was "Oh, he was trying to see if he could continue the race." BS!!

"I appreciate artistry, I appreciate technique, I appreciate strategy, tactics," TDG said. "When I look at him and watch him race, no matter who it is, I see how he breaks down his opponent."

Horner confirmed that he was trying to continue. This would suggest the telemetry supports this statement.Whether reversing into the racing line to continue made sense is another story.

IMO if that was the case it wasn't sensible, and still supports the idea that Webber has no discipline. So it boils down to him trying to take out a competitor, or unsafe driving which should be met with some penalty.I'll let it slide all because I wouldn't mind Webber winning this year. A penalty would knock him out of the title fight.

I take it you have this? I don't like Webber either but I find this theory totally absurd.

Nope, it makes perfect sense to me. I assume that most of us in here have a valid driver's license(not that you need one to see this anyway)? When you are reversing and you want to go right you turn the wheel to the right, correct? When you want to go left you turn the wheel to the left. Then, why, after hitting the wall, did Mark Webber not turn his turn LEFT AT FULL LOCK and stay OFF the track? Look at all that nice precious run-off on the left...

go to 48 seconds..

Not even mentioning the fact that he came off the brakes waaay after hitting the wall. (moment of impact, ricochet, then time to control the car, no brakes!)

I am not bashing Mark, but I know many people would take the option of taking out their rivals at no cost if presented.

"I appreciate artistry, I appreciate technique, I appreciate strategy, tactics," TDG said. "When I look at him and watch him race, no matter who it is, I see how he breaks down his opponent."

I just cannot belive this, a collection of monday morning pole-sitters are debating if Webber should either;

- Have had the presence during the crash to both brake and steer away from the path of other drivers.or- Have had the presence during the crash to avoid braking and deliberatly steer in the path of other drivers.

xpensive wrote:I just cannot belive this, a collection of monday morning pole-sitters are debating if Webber should either;

- Have had the presence during the crash to both brake and steer away from the path of other drivers.or- Have had the presence during the crash to avoid braking and deliberatly steer in the path of other drivers.

Lord

And don't forget, he also had to choose which part of the wall he would crash in to, so that he could ricochet back across the track, to be in a position where someone would chose the wrong side to avoid him, would crash into him! Webber must be the cleverest person in the world!

Comparing race driving to the presence of mind you have when driving on the road by mentioning a driving license is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard on these forums and shows those people have no idea about racing.

Hands down there are lots of technical experts here, people who know how things in F1 work, but let's face it, without the telemetry, no one can determine for sure what Webber did or did not do. As far as I know, we don't have mind readers here yet, so no offense to anybody, but everything that everyone's arguing about is just all plain speculation. Let's just talk about more technical and educational things please? This is just one more conspiracy theory in the F1 world. It's not gonna help anybody.

Is the glass half empty or half full?Engineer - "The glass is twice as big as it needs to be."

segedunum wrote:Comparing race driving to the presence of mind you have when driving on the road by mentioning a driving license is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard on these forums and shows those people have no idea about racing.