it didn't taste yeasty so he must proof in a warm area and use warm water for the rise. i really liked his sauce it was seasoned more than most and was not heavy on oregano which if overdone can kill a sauce. this is according to my taste preferences. i think if you take a good basic pizza and top it with fresh basil evoo and good fresh grated cheese you will have a great tasting pizza. i read that at one time they were shut down for health violations, in the window was a big white sign from the health department giving them an A . also there is a website that you can search for most ny restaurants , their number of violations and what they are. mice seem to be a big problem to a lot of them. norma, i wish i could say that i know a lot more about dough than you, but i don't the people on this site have a lot of knowledge .i run a restaurant making the food is only part of the daily routine. the closer i can get to making my product to the ideal pizzas that the members make the better i feel about what i do. that is probably the biggest advantage the independent restaurant owner has to offer. about keste's we look forward to our visits their they are fun events the staff, food,and atmosphere make it a wonderful dinning experience. his pizza i by far the best i have tasted in the city so far. his video on dough making really covers a lot of how he gets that great taste and texture. all room risen and storage. when you question the older dough it is really hard to work with but the flavor is wonderful. the older dough takes a very hot oven to aid the small amount of yeast left in the dough. a funny story last visit in september i had my older brother with me and my family .he is a catholic priest in youngstown ohio which is a very italian community. he studied for the priesthood in italy and goes three to four times per year . his comment after our night of wine and pizza was it felt like a dinner in naples without the expense of a plane flight, he even blessed the oven .

When you posted about mice being a big problem in eateries, it made me laugh. When visiting NY, early last November we went to Juniorís in Brooklyn to eat. They are supposed to have the best cheesecake in NY. After we ate there we found out, they did have a big mice problem and it was even posted in the newspaper. http://brooklynian.com/forum/brooklyn-eats/juniors-cheesecake-not-so-yummy-anymore-huhAnother time I was eating in Manhattan and hear what sounded like rats running though the walls.

Thanks for posting you also thought Kesteís pizza was really good. I could also imagine myself sitting somewhere in Italy, eating one of their wonderful pies. Kesteís was a great experience for me. I guess that is what makes Kesteís pizza so good, the hot oven and the dough fermented almost to overfermentation. I really enjoyed watching Roberto make the pies and also sliding them in and out of the oven.

I really liked your story about your uncle and him thinking the pizza tasted like Naples pizzas and him even blessing the oven.

made a di fara clone last night. i feel it is such an easy task. take your standard ny style pizza hot from the oven apply fresh basil cut with scissors apply fresh grated cheese and a good dose of evoo and you will be close to the di fara taste. now it may not have the texture ,the sauce may be a little different, but the fresh basil, evoo and grated cheese will give you a very tasty pizza.

made a di fara clone last night. i feel it is such an easy task. take your standard ny style pizza hot from the oven apply fresh basil cut with scissors apply fresh grated cheese and a good dose of evoo and you will be close to the di fara taste. now it may not have the texture ,the sauce may be a little different, but the fresh basil, evoo and grated cheese will give you a very tasty pizza.

I don't believe the difara dough is that hard to duplicate. We can learn alot from the interview video Norma posted. that video holds a lot of clues and cues to his dough. If someone can provide me with a typical difara crumb shot, it wouldn't be hard to make a similar dough.

I think I made one last night by accident. But since I have never eaten there, I don't know how the crust should be. What I do know is that he uses three types of cheese, fresh mozza, regular mozza and Grana Padano before they go into the oven.

A couple of pics and one for comparison purposes. They look pretty similar.

Peter, thanks for the link. I'll go through that thread as I have time. In all your efforts, did you feel that you or other members were able to come close to replicating the crust? I think a crumb shot, and an approximate bake time would tell me alot.

Peter, thanks for the link. I'll go through that thread as I have time. In all your efforts, did you feel that you or other members were able to come close to replicating the crust? I think a crumb shot, and an approximate bake time would tell me alot.

Mike your pie and cheese toppings does look like a Difara pie.

That was by accident.

Anyway, I've read somewhere that the baking time at DiFara's is around 7-8 mins. I got to see if I still can find the info.

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Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." - Albert Einstein

mike, that looks realy close! if your dough in on the light side you are even closer. i think what makes his pizza so special is that he uses a generous amont of very high qualty toppings and ingrediants. my point on my clone was not realy that my pizza tasted like doms , but if you are willing to splurge on good topping you can have a really great pizza. fresh, basil good grated cheese and tasty evoo would bring any pizza up a couple of nothces. it takes guts to charge 5.00 for a slice of pizza, di fara cusomers seem happy and plentyful .

In all your efforts, did you feel that you or other members were able to come close to replicating the crust?

Chau,

I made a few smaller pizzas that I thought were an improvement over the DeMarco dough that were baked in my standard unmodified electric home oven (see Replies 130+ starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,504.msg28423.html#msg28423) but I couldn't make an authentic 18" DeMarco clone pizza because my pizza stone was too small and I didn't have the oven heat to do what Dom DeMarco did. There were other members who used similar flour blends as Dom DeMarco used and used units like the 2Stone to bake their pizzas with higher heat, with pretty good success as I recall, but I do not recall that anyone made an 18" clone of a DeMarco pizza based on the information that Pete Taylor and I uncovered when we worked on the reverse engineering project.

I'm sure that you will be able to come up with a better product once you get an idea as to what the crumb looks like and especially if you use sauce, cheese and other toppings like those that Dom uses. My recollection is that there wasn't a great deal of oven spring. Dom's pizzas take a long time to bake and, if I recall correctly, the finished crust is not soft, open and airy as a result.

There's a video on YouTube from a chef who mentions that DiFara uses AP flour for all their pies. I don't know how true that is, or if he might has different info than us here but I thought it was worth mentioning.

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Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." - Albert Einstein

mike, that looks realy close! if your dough in on the light side you are even closer. i think what makes his pizza so special is that he uses a generous amont of very high qualty toppings and ingrediants. my point on my clone was not realy that my pizza tasted like doms , but if you are willing to splurge on good topping you can have a really great pizza. fresh, basil good grated cheese and tasty evoo would bring any pizza up a couple of nothces. it takes guts to charge 5.00 for a slice of pizza, di fara cusomers seem happy and plentyful .

Zaman,

I was messing around last night with a different dough formula, using 65% hydration and KABF, a two-hour proofing window and that's what I came up with.

The crust was pretty light and airy, but also had a good crunch to it. However, I think we would have to have the same temps as DiFara to make a clone that comes really close.

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Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." - Albert Einstein

I think I made one last night by accident. But since I have never eaten there, I don't know how the crust should be. What I do know is that he uses three types of cheese, fresh mozza, regular mozza and Grana Padano before they go into the oven.

A couple of pics and one for comparison purposes. They look pretty similar.

Mike, maybe this latest crust you made is better than Dom's crust. Maybe your Di fara clone is a better pizza. I'm sure Dom makes a great pie, but I'm not sure it's that much better than some of our members are making.

Petezza, I haven't had a real di fara pie so i wouldn't be able to know how close I can get. I can really only go off of the description of the crust texture and taste compared to the way the crumb looks. I won't be attempting it until there are plenty of examples of both that I might be able to draw a good solid conclusion on the crust and crumb. At the moment, there seems to be a lack of both description and pictures.

I know you have had his pizza and considering your time, effort, and high standards, if you felt that you were able to create a dough that was an improvement over Dom's dough, I have no doubt about it. In reading your posts about his pizza, I think you are right in that the combination of the high quality of ingredients, attention of detail spent on each pie made by Dom himself, the long lines all play into the mystique of Di Fara.

Thanks Norma. I'd love to see some crumb shots if anyone has any. I can see a little of it in these pictures. Can those who have had Dom's crust also describe it in detail. What did you like or not like about it. I remember from watching some youtube videos that it has a audible crunch to it when he first cuts into it out of the oven. It also has a light sound to it. Not like cutting through dense crust but a light crust. From the looks of the dough it looks to have a good amount of oil to it as well. Around 3-4% oil??? If he indeed is fermenting only 2 hours or so, then he's using A LOT of yeast. I also have my doubts that he is using 100% AP flour.

It was topped with ham, spinach, garlic and some tuna. Don't laugh...I was just using stuff I had in my pantry.

Chau,

here's a crumb shot, for what it's worth. It looks like a generic dough to me with a very short fermentation window, perhaps 3 hrs tops. But maybe Peter can give us some more details in the crust itself. However, I think what makes this pizza so great is the toppings and cheese blend he uses.