Great message to send to our kids. If your opponent is TOO big, quit. Didn't these friggin genuises have a clue when the schedule was created who they would be playing. And, if there exists such an inequity in the league, FIX IT!.........

GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:Is the world screwed up because the one team won't play, or because the other team places too much emphasis on football, probably recruits players, and probably has players who use steroids?

Where the hell are you getting "probably has players who use steroids" from?

There really isn't enough info in that article to make a good judgement on whether forfeiting the game is warranted.

As laid out in both The Boston Globe and Boston Herald, the numbers behind St. George's decision are pretty stark. Three Lawrence Academy offensive lineman weigh in at 300, 335 and 350 pounds, where St. George's players come nowhere near those marks.

I mean really, would it have been too much to ask for this reporter to actually list some of the opposing players weights? How big are the kids on the other O-line? How big are the kids on the D-line going up against them? Are they 200-225? Are they 145 soaking wet? That shit matters here.

Great message to send to our kids. If your opponent is TOO big, quit. Didn't these friggin genuises have a clue when the schedule was created who they would be playing. And, if there exists such an inequity in the league, FIX IT!.........

Reading the entire article it sounds like the school made a good choice in favor of protecting their kids (and yes, kids is appropriate in this case) from injury.

Nonetheless, St. George's decision shines a spotlight on a significant problem that has been building within the ISL for years, according to the Boston Herald's Danny Ventura.

Other coaches in the game have privately voiced their displeasure with Lawrence Academy. Judging by the volume of hits this story (which the Herald first broke yesterday morning) has received, it's certainly a newsworthy issue. What remains to be seen is whether any other team in the league follows suit and refuses to play LA.League administrators were scheduled to meet this morning and we're sure one of the hot topics will be how to handle this situation. Is it a forfeit against SG or a no contest. You also have to believe that they will be feeling out the rest of Lawrence Academy opponents to see if they have plans on playing the game.As one coach who asked his name not be used said: "The situation stinks. It's a black eye for our league."

I'm not sure how declining to play a game against a much larger team is any evidence that this world is "screwed up". I tell you what, dem425, why don't you jump into a boxing ring with someone 100 lbs heavier and 6 inches taller than you. If you refuse, then that is another reason this world is screwed up.

jfiling wrote:I'm not sure how declining to play a game against a much larger team is any evidence that this world is "screwed up". I tell you what, dem425, why don't you jump into a boxing ring with someone 100 lbs heavier and 6 inches taller than you. If you refuse, then that is another reason this world is screwed up.

Where are you getting 110lbs heavier and 6 inches taller? And what does boxing have to do with anything?

jfiling wrote:I'm not sure how declining to play a game against a much larger team is any evidence that this world is "screwed up". I tell you what, dem425, why don't you jump into a boxing ring with someone 100 lbs heavier and 6 inches taller than you. If you refuse, then that is another reason this world is screwed up.

Where are you getting 110lbs heavier and 6 inches taller? And what does boxing have to do with anything?

Analogies are difficult, I guess. I think this is a fair one, though. I'll let dem425 tell me if I need to refine it.

There are lessons to be learned from getting your ass kicked as well. Because they're big, doesn't increase the chance of getting hurt. A 200lb kid moving half again as fast as a 300lber creates the same amount of force.

Erie Warrior wrote:There are lessons to be learned from getting your ass kicked as well. Because they're big, doesn't increase the chance of getting hurt. A 200lb kid moving half again as fast as a 300lber creates the same amount of force.

Play the game.

If we're talking pure physics, then yes. I'd imagine that sometimes players land on other players' joints, at which point a 300 lber falling on a 200 lber isn't likely to end well for the guy on the bottom.

What I'd really like to know is how many parents of the forfeiting team objected to the game being cancelled. It's easy to be an internet tough guy when it comes to other people's children being put into harm's way. Since this is a private school that forfeited, I'd think if the parents are against this move the coach will be fired, or at least seriously sanctioned.

I am with EW play the damn game. When I was in HS we played against these twin farm boys that went 6'5 and 6'6 and 310 and 320 respectively. Our center and guards were no more than 230 and I was the QB at 6 foot, 190. After we attempted a QB sneak and lost 2 yards we gave anything inside the tackles up and out ran the fuckers. Use your brain to out think them. I played against many kids much bigger than I, never once thought about not showing up.

Erie Warrior wrote:There are lessons to be learned from getting your ass kicked as well. Because they're big, doesn't increase the chance of getting hurt. A 200lb kid moving half again as fast as a 300lber creates the same amount of force.

Play the game.

If we're talking pure physics, then yes. I'd imagine that sometimes players land on other players' joints, at which point a 300 lber falling on a 200 lber isn't likely to end well for the guy on the bottom.

What I'd really like to know is how many parents of the forfeiting team objected to the game being cancelled. It's easy to be an internet tough guy when it comes to other people's children being put into harm's way. Since this is a private school that forfeited, I'd think if the parents are against this move the coach will be fired, or at least seriously sanctioned.

Well then shit, better cancel all high school games where a 200 lb kid is on the field with a 300 lb kid, or maybe start a fat boy league.

Thanks, Fling, Ole Buddy..............I knew if there was someone out there who can present an inane, asinine reply, you were the dude.

My point in posting was to show the ridiculous ends that high-school sports will go. I believe in some respects that high-school sports is a microcosm of our society.

Plan days, weeks, months in advance to create a schedule. Practice hours and hours encouraging team concepts, esprit d'corps, learning about sport and competition............then tell your team three games into the season, we're not gonna play those big boys. Why didn't they know about this in advance?.....If the health of the players was at stake, they should not be playing tackle football OR that team should not have been on their schedule.

You can spin the good lesson here to read that "discretion is a the better part of valor".......Be intersting to take a straw vote of the kids.......

Adults, once again, fuck up the kid's world.

As far as stepping into the ring.............at 55, fat and a heart condition, probably an ignorant move on my part.........However, assuming you are 6 inches and a 100# heavier than me, I might make an exception.....

Last edited by dem425 on Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

They probably don't. And in fact, I'd bet they're more than willing to play the game.

Blame the knob gobbler who scheduled the game.

But to the point, yeah, probably just easier to quit if you're up against bigger or stronger guys on the filed or on the court. Same thing in life. If you're facing down an Ivy League attorney with your John Marshall law degree it might be best to plead out or settle.

jfiling wrote:What I'd really like to know is how many parents of the forfeiting team objected to the game being cancelled. It's easy to be an internet tough guy when it comes to other people's children being put into harm's way.

Well Christ, if that's the issue why allow those kids to go out for football in the first place? Plenty of other ways for them to get exercise.

As for me, I saw several 300-pounders when I was playing HS at Kent Roosevelt and I never thought "steroids." I always thought "20-Piece Chicken McNuggets," "Double Whoppers," "Wendys Triples," etc. The smaller guys were the ones shooting up (allegedly.) The big guys were usually just fat fucks.

The real problem is the schools are too competitive and the real world is much more laid back.

In the real world do you see big countries picking on little ones? No. Can't little countries just quit when a larger country's military force comes a knocking and the little country still maintains their dignity and way of life? Yes.

If quitting because the other guys are just plain bigger is the answer than this world would never have known about Rudy Ruetteger.

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

peeker643 wrote:In the real world do you see big countries picking on little ones? No. Can't little countries just quit when a larger country's military force comes a knocking and the little country still maintains their dignity and way of life? Yes.

peeker643 wrote:In the real world do you see big countries picking on little ones? No. Can't little countries just quit when a larger country's military force comes a knocking and the little country still maintains their dignity and way of life? Yes.

dem425 wrote:Thanks, Fling, Ole Buddy..............I knew if there was someone out there who can present an inane, asinine reply, you were the dude.

I'm not sure its asinine pointing out that there is a valid concern when it comes to kids, whose bodies are still developing, being at risk of injury.

dem425 wrote:My point in posting was to show the ridiculous ends that high-school sports will go. I believe in some respects that high-school sports is a microcosm of our society.

Plan days, weeks, months in advance to create a schedule. Practice hours and hours encouraging team concepts, esprit d'corps, learning about sport and competition............then tell your team three games into the season, we're not gonna play those big boys. Why didn't they know about this in advance?.....If the health of the players was at stake, they should not be playing tackle football OR that team should not have been on their schedule.

Agreed on all points there.

dem425 wrote:You can spin the good lesson here to read that "discretion is a the better part of valor".......Be intersting to take a straw vote of the kids.......

Adults, once again, fuck up the kid's world.

I see your point there, but without knowing more about the story I can't judge.

dem425 wrote:As far as stepping into the ring.............at 55, fat and a heart condition, probably an ignorant move on my part.........However, assuming you are 6 inches and a 100# heavier than me, I might make an exception.....

I did not know about your heart condition; I hope it is under control and doesn't impair you. And I'm sure you'd still kick my ass.

Among other options, Lawrence Academy reportedly offered to play the game at "half speed" to ensure no players got hurt. That hardly seems like a positive message to send to a program that claims it is trying to build gradual success among a young core of players.

I found that line the funniest part of the article.

i would like to see what a team would look like attempting to go "half speed" in a real game vs kids that are going full speed.

My son plays freshman football and the range of sizes on his team is crazy. We have a huge 375 lb lineman that couldn't even get out of his own way, a 260 lb D lineman who is pretty good and our starting O-line are close to 200 lbs, if not more, including my son at 6' 1", 210. We have many corners who weigh in at 100 lbs or even 120 for that matter. There is just as much danger during practice when a lineman pulls on a sweep and is looking to take out a cornerback who weighs literally 100 lbs less than they do. That is football, you do not like it, don't play. My son always says about huge D-linemen he faces, they are usually either really good or just spacetakers. And if they are good, they will probably knock you on your ass regardless of size.

Somehow I knew TMQ would address this situation, and I wasn't wrong. Most of it was on the fact that Lawrence Academy treats its players like meat (which is all fine and well, as long as the parents understand the health risks), and makes other good points.

Offensive Linemen Gone Blimp: Tuesday Morning Quarterback has long contended that linemen, especially in high school, are forcing themselves to gain unhealthy levels of weight. Katie Weil of Brookline, Mass., was among many readers to point out this story of a high school that forfeited last weekend rather than face a private prep team with several linemen exceeding 300 pounds.

Twenty years ago, there were few NFL players weighing more than 300 pounds. Now this weight is not uncommon in college. With modern training, it's possible for many college males to be what scouts call a "natural" 300 pounds -- meaning appropriate to their frame and based on supervised weightlifting and a healthful diet -- since muscle weighs more than other kinds of tissue. But college players are years ahead of high-school boys in physical maturity and time spent lifting. Rare is the high-school boy who carries a natural 300 pounds, as opposed to weight gained by deliberate overeating. For instance Good Counsel, one of the country's powerhouse private prep programs and one with an excellent reputation for taking good care of players, has no one above 290 pounds.

The prep school in question with the very heavy boys, Lawrence Academy, won its 2009 games by an average of 43-9 and its first two games of 2010 by a combined 73-14. Surely Lawrence plays well, but margins that wide suggest poor sportsmanship – when a football team wins 56-0 or 47-0, as Lawrence did in 2009, the victor, not the vanquished, should feel embarrassed. Lawrence head coach Mike Taylor -- beating up on teams that have no chance is bully behavior that reflects poorly on you and your program. Taylor declined comment. Dave Casanave, director of communications for Lawrence Academy, told TMQ, "There were valid questions about sportsmanship and game management last year. We've had some discussions with the football coaches and are optimistic that bad sportsmanship will not happen again."

More important, Lawrence claims its mission is "excellence." Can it be excellence for the football staff to be encouraging or at least averting eyes from unhealthy levels of weight gain, in order to create gigantic linemen? Don't try to tell me it's just some weird coincidence that football boys who enroll at Lawrence balloon up. Short term, excessive weight increases risk of heat stroke -- heavy players are more prone than lean ones. Long term, excessive weight gain for football can lead to lifelong health problems, including diabetes, hypertension and heart trouble.

In 2006, former San Francisco coach Bill Walsh told me he thought excessive weight in football won't end until NFL teams, colleges or high schools lose health liability litigation. The high-school level may be the place to start, since there, football players are minors whom coaches and teachers should safeguard. Maybe a high-school parent whose boy has gained unsafe weight for football should sue, claiming the abetting of dangerous behavior by a minor. That might lead to positive reform.

The slution is to legalize and encourage safe usage of PEDS. In the golden era of the 80's, you'd have guys at 285 who were as strong as the fat ph*&%s at 350 and a hell of alot more mobile. It was only when roids strated to get a bad rap that you saw the rise of the fat pig Crackwagon OL. Even the Hogs were athletic. I've had occasion to meet Russ Grimm. He's piut on a nice boiler, but he's no Andre the Giant. And lachey and jacoby were athletic.

jb wrote:The slution is to legalize and encourage safe usage of PEDS. In the golden era of the 80's, you'd have guys at 285 who were as strong as the fat ph*&%s at 350 and a hell of alot more mobile. It was only when roids strated to get a bad rap that you saw the rise of the fat pig Crackwagon OL. Even the Hogs were athletic. I've had occasion to meet Russ Grimm. He's piut on a nice boiler, but he's no Andre the Giant. And lachey and jacoby were athletic.

Former NFL defensive lineman Brad Culpepper agrees with you, JB:

Culpepper, the retired lineman, sees a correlation between the inception of the NFL's steroid testing about 15 years ago and the increase in players' weights. With the crackdown on illegal substances, focus shifted from strength to sheer mass.

"No longer could a guy be 270 and maul people because he's on steroids and has so many muscles," Culpepper said. "Now you have to be 300 to move people. It remains to be seen what's going to happen to these guys as they get in their 30s and retire."

What's interesting to me is the effort a lot of these guys make to lose that extra weight once they quit playing. Culpepper, who was 270 pounds when he played on Tampa Bay's DL in the late '90s, is down to about 200. Mark May, Mark Schlereth and Ed Cunningham are all former 300-pound offensive linemen who have lost a ton of weight. Whe you see Cunningham on college football telecasts you'd enver guess he was a 300-pound center in the NFL.

jb wrote:The slution is to legalize and encourage safe usage of PEDS. In the golden era of the 80's, you'd have guys at 285 who were as strong as the fat ph*&%s at 350 and a hell of alot more mobile. It was only when roids strated to get a bad rap that you saw the rise of the fat pig Crackwagon OL. Even the Hogs were athletic. I've had occasion to meet Russ Grimm. He's piut on a nice boiler, but he's no Andre the Giant. And lachey and jacoby were athletic.

Former NFL defensive lineman Brad Culpepper agrees with you, JB:

Culpepper, the retired lineman, sees a correlation between the inception of the NFL's steroid testing about 15 years ago and the increase in players' weights. With the crackdown on illegal substances, focus shifted from strength to sheer mass.

"No longer could a guy be 270 and maul people because he's on steroids and has so many muscles," Culpepper said. "Now you have to be 300 to move people. It remains to be seen what's going to happen to these guys as they get in their 30s and retire."

What's interesting to me is the effort a lot of these guys make to lose that extra weight once they quit playing. Culpepper, who was 270 pounds when he played on Tampa Bay's DL in the late '90s, is down to about 200. Mark May, Mark Schlereth and Ed Cunningham are all former 300-pound offensive linemen who have lost a ton of weight. Whe you see Cunningham on college football telecasts you'd enver guess he was a 300-pound center in the NFL.

Markk May lost all his weight between his ears.

But that said I wasn't completely kidding. You wonder if presecribed and used in a safe environment if there isn't a place for PEDS & it is better than these consequences. And the game was better, too.