It is a fact that World of Warcraft does not have a monopoly on the Chinese market. It is a fact that there are other Western MMOs operating in that market.

It is a fact that there is no evidence that there are any special barriers preventing EA from marketing TOR in China.

Those are facts. Facts are not the same as making stuff up.

regardless of those facts, it is pure speculation on your part as to why SWTOR is not in China. My overriding point still holds though. SWTOR is not in China and it is therefore disingenuous to compare the sub bases of both if you include a part of the sub base that is not accessible to the other.

---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 02:53 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Tsuna

What this guy said. Stop raging at each other and either answer the OP's question or post nothing. I'm reading to get more info on how swtor is doing and whether or not I should try it, I've seen nothing but a ragefest and I think there's already been a moderator who's posted here.

You are completely right. SWTOR is much better than when it launched. Yes it is still buggy in points, but they've changed and adapted to make a very playable game. If you are considering f2p model, note that though on the surface it appears restrictive, it really is one of the most forgiving models out there. It is very easy to purchase a lot of the restrictions via the GTN (galactic trade network, or SWTOR's version of WoW's AH).

I've personally only been playing for a little over a month, on subscription if it matters. But I'm finding with 1 50, it's extremely easy to make credits. You can easily make 200,000 creds a day just doing the dailies. I'm just starting to do Ops (SWTOR's raids) and I'm finding them interesting and fun.

It's definitely a game worth looking into if you are looking for a game to play. One suggestion, check out some of HK-51's posts in some of the other threads as he gives a pretty comprehensive view of the ways the necessary purchases (whether cash or ingame creds) that will make your time in game much more enjoyable.

Every day threads like this are a reminder why my desire to play this game is waning. Even if it was the best game ever, listening to people who have come out in droves since F2P go lalalala I can't hear you, this game sucks, is enough to make me want nothing to do with it.

Doesn't help that all the mods disappeared. Where are you guys? This stuff has turned into crapsville. Pretty much every thread on here needs to be closed from sheer, pointless bickering.

regardless of those facts, it is pure speculation on your part as to why SWTOR is not in China. My overriding point still holds though. SWTOR is not in China and it is therefore disingenuous to compare the sub bases of both if you include a part of the sub base that is not accessible to the other.

At this point I'm pretty sure you don't even know what "accessible" means. You have absolutely no evidence that there are any barriers preventing EA from exploiting the Chinese portion of the MMO market just as Blizzard has. The market is the same for both companies. Absent any evidence that there are special barriers for only one of the companies, a failure to penetrate or exploit a portion of said market is not the same as that portion being inaccessible.

What is disingenuous is attempting to simply erase a portion of one game's subscription numbers based on nothing other than your own insistence that they shouldn't count because you believe that reflects better on your own particular horse.

At this point I'm pretty sure you don't even know what "accessible" means. You have absolutely no evidence that there are any barriers preventing EA from exploiting the Chinese portion of the MMO market just as Blizzard has. The market is the same for both companies. Absent any evidence that there are special barriers for only one of the companies, a failure to penetrate or exploit a portion of said market is not the same as that portion being inaccessible.

What is disingenuous is attempting to simply erase a portion of one game's subscription numbers based on nothing other than your own insistence that they shouldn't count because you believe that reflects better on your own particular horse.

I have to laugh at this.

You two are arguing about facts that neither can back up. This isn't the forum you're looking for. Move along.

You two are arguing about facts that neither can back up. This isn't the forum you're looking for. Move along.

So true, so true. These two are arguing over what they believe instead of what is or is not real. "I find it hard to believe" is not a valid argument. By the way, what happened to the Super Mod that said to shut down the China talk and get back on topic? I'm in agreement with Kitty here. This topic needs to be locked.

At this point I'm pretty sure you don't even know what "accessible" means. You have absolutely no evidence that there are any barriers preventing EA from exploiting the Chinese portion of the MMO market just as Blizzard has. The market is the same for both companies. Absent any evidence that there are special barriers for only one of the companies, a failure to penetrate or exploit a portion of said market is not the same as that portion being inaccessible.

What is disingenuous is attempting to simply erase a portion of one game's subscription numbers based on nothing other than your own insistence that they shouldn't count because you believe that reflects better on your own particular horse.

Well, I guess if it comes right down to it, my main point is that, in terms of the bottom line, I don't count the Chinese subs the same because, even in WoW terms, the money it brings in pales in comparison to the rest of the world. It's like 6% of WoW's income for 60% of it's population.

Which means, if indeed the 4mil number is accurate for the rest of the world and 94% of it's revenue, even a company that has a 500k to 1000k sub base, they can thrive and make money.

And realistically, going f2p for SWTOR really didn't cost them much at all. It probably didn't take a huge amount of development dollars to do so. They probably didn't lose many if any subscribers by bringing in a f2p population. But I'm pretty sure it added a lot of players, brought in revenue.

Besides, I'm still pretty sure you are arguing for the sake of arguing because at the beginning of all of this you threw out the race card as your main point.

I resubbed after dropping my WOW subscription and here's my take on the various things. Note that I haven't done any endgame operations or 50 pvp. They made a few improvements here and there. Customizing the UI is probably the best enhancement that I've seen. It's also picked up a few negatives from the community like if you run a flashpoint, or whatever they call them, you always get some dude typing "space, space, space".

I've heard the PVE is good but I haven't really experienced it so I can't comment.

PVP is kind of a mess. Melee runs the show. You probably remember sentinels crying about all the knock backs, commandos, mercs and agents being OP. That's been 100% flipped except for agents who are now the best healer because they can heal on the move. It's also really fast now, even in the lower brackets. I think you could make a good case that it's worse than WOW's situation. I'm a bit biased because I like the commando class and it's just painful to play. The gear gap should be easier to jump at 50 from what I hear compared to what it's been in the past. Oh, and snipers are in a good place because they're the only real counter to the friggin' glowsticks.

Finally, crew skills. They haven't really changed, except now some professions can augment. Basically, only Cybertech and grenades are much good in PVP, Biochem was nerfed there but is still the choice in PVE. Everything else, from what I can tell, is just a waste of time. Oh, and the GTN, still absolutely blows. It's still the same lousy interface that you remember. The good news about all of this is that you can pretty much ignore all of that and just run dailies at 50 for credits, or so I hear. I just picked 3 mission skills, send my dudes off, and GTN what I get back. I just see nothing there in the whole crafting/crew skill thing as credits shouldn't really be a problem.

Basically, not much has changed. It's still clunky in the places it was clunky and any improvements, where they are, aren't game changers.

That must be my favourite quote from this interview: "Damion: In an earlier draft of F2P, we had it so that F2Pers couldn’t use spacebar inside cutscenes and we almost had a riot inside this building. So we being listening to feedbacks the whole way."

so far I've only had my commando/ mercenary hitting 400k+ damage numbers in low lvl warzones, never seen anyone that high with 1000+ low lvl warzones across all characters.

I don't understand what you are saying? 200K damage in 1-49 is rare but it certainly happens. The only way I can see 400K is in a premade that farmed in the low brackets. They simply don't do enough damage unless they are left alone and they aren't left alone even in those brackets. They just get rolled way too easily.

I switched over to assault and that works better although it doesn't really feel much like a commando.

The hard truth is that it's still pretty much the same game it was at release: a game that I really want to like but is just sloppy in far too many things. Just the GTN alone is enough to make me want to cancel my sub. It's terrible and never should have gone into the game even like it is today, much less like it was at release.

It completely depends on how the warzone is run. If you have fights, 200k, 300k and even 400k are possible while 200k should not be a target but a bottom limit. I did way over 200k with my lvl 15 shadow, lvl 10 scoundrel and lvl 13 mercenary.

However the point was that I've never seen hitting 400k + by any other class than commando/ mercenary in low lvl bracket. In lvl 50 bracket I've seen Juggernauts hitting 800k.

Q: ready check system for flashpoints and operations?A: we don’t have a ready check? I am going back to the office and get that in.

If they had followed him back to the office you would have seen that they drop bricks on their heads when they walk in the door. It's the only thing to explain all of the insanity that has gone on with this game.

Every day threads like this are a reminder why my desire to play this game is waning. Even if it was the best game ever, listening to people who have come out in droves since F2P go lalalala I can't hear you, this game sucks, is enough to make me want nothing to do with it.

Doesn't help that all the mods disappeared. Where are you guys? This stuff has turned into crapsville. Pretty much every thread on here needs to be closed from sheer, pointless bickering.

I have only time reading while at work as whenever else I have time for SWTOR I'll be playing it. I somehow wish our IT guy will finally put this website onto the "blocked site because.... "list so I completely won't have any temptation what certain other people have to say.

I have only time reading while at work as whenever else I have time for SWTOR I'll be playing it. I somehow wish our IT guy will finally put this website onto the "blocked site because.... "list so I completely won't have any temptation what certain other people have to say.

I mean I will be harsh and completely destroy something I don't agree with, but I am never going to just ignore what waves of people are saying, with proof, and advocate that everyone quit playing a game because it sucks. Like...what is the point of that?

I don't think people understand it's ok to go apeshit on something, relent when you find out things that are appeasing or frame the situation differently, and at the end of all that still completely disagree with the game's direction without telling everyone else they are stupid (and meaning it).

I mean I personally think that they are headed to Pay to Win. The ship gear troubles me. I've expressed this, argued with people, and still feel the same way. But if it's the game for you and you don't see it that way...well, I can judge it a loss for you but I can't honestly tell you that you are doing something wrong.