Sange costs more gold and the only really useful thing it provides is HP. Evasion can be more eHP than Sange, especially vs carries.

Evasion can be better... If you have more than 1200 HP and die to nothing but attacks. Or if you have over 2400 HP (without that Sange) and half the damage you take comes from attacks. Yeah, seems very likely in a normal game. Unless you only Repel yourself and don't skill Guardian Angel.

Sange gives you 304 HP, .48 HP regen, +26 damage and Maim for 250 gold more than ToE. Even if everything besides the HP is only situational, that HP alone being worse than evasion is situational.

I believe he's talking about which piece of HH is more beneficial to buy first.

Sange is easier to build and gives benefit along the way, no omni is going to go energy boots > talisman because he's have 700 hp and die in two nukes. Plenty of omnis will go boots > sange because it makes them a tank mid game.

I'm not a big fan of evasion, it really doesn't help much. When people kill you in 4 auto attacks dodging 15% of the time is not noticeable. Especially when most *good* carries have attack modifiers that make their auto attacks much more guaranteed. Talisman omni meet nether strike.

Nah, I disagree with your elitist mentality.
Tier gear should be available during the leveling process. I don't want to have to mingle with these eltitist jerks in LFR to get gear as it is. I pay a sub fee, I shouldn't have to do LFR to get raid gear, much less Flex or Normal.

If I had to complain about something right now, I feel like Diffusal Blade's passive working off illusions seems a little dumb. An entire mana pool gone in 3 seconds from a PL Strike Force can be a little aggravating.

Originally Posted by Lysah

Sange is easier to build and gives benefit along the way, no omni is going to go energy boots > talisman because he's have 700 hp and die in two nukes. Plenty of omnis will go boots > sange because it makes them a tank mid game.

I'm not a big fan of evasion, it really doesn't help much. When people kill you in 4 auto attacks dodging 15% of the time is not noticeable. Especially when most *good* carries have attack modifiers that make their auto attacks much more guaranteed. Talisman omni meet nether strike.

But I've got to agree, the EH 15% dodge provides is based both off RNG, and the composition of their team (Whether they've got a lot of right-click heroes, or not), not to mention it does nothing against nukes and magic damage. Sange may not potentially be as much EH, but it's much more reliable.

Well, very few heroes are pure right click. Leoric will still hit you with a nuke that you can't dodge. AM has mana burn that will hurt a lot on a strength hero. PL can spam lance forever. Maybe if their team is somehow 5 PAs evasion will be good, but without HP it's not very useful. People who go butterfly first on agility heroes are always laughed it, it's not actually a very good item for the price. The evasion only comes in handy late game when you have 2500 health anyway. Otherwise, you'll just get picked for a finger of death and be out of the fight. If you repel yourself you're not putting it on someone else, unfortunately.

Well, very few heroes are pure right click. Leoric will still hit you with a nuke that you can't dodge. AM has mana burn that will hurt a lot on a strength hero. PL can spam lance forever. Maybe if their team is somehow 5 PAs evasion will be good, but without HP it's not very useful. People who go butterfly first on agility heroes are always laughed it, it's not actually a very good item for the price. The evasion only comes in handy late game when you have 2500 health anyway. Otherwise, you'll just get picked for a finger of death and be out of the fight. If you repel yourself you're not putting it on someone else, unfortunately.

I suppose I didn't mean 100% right clicking, more like Leoric or void, who get the majority of damage from just auto-attacking. But you're absolutely right, getting the evasion first (fairly early, at least) just makes you more susceptible to getting bursted down by a nuker, and provides no defense against them.

Why is there always a fucking Drow Ranger on the other team that gets fed as shit?

Buy wards and keep an eye on her. Usually shes in mid so she can run gank bot or top. Shes like NS like that. It happens to often for my taste mind you but it is what it is. I'm tired of seeing Ns, drow, clinkz running ganks bot or top iover and over again. Or pudge. uggh.

Buy wards and keep an eye on her. Usually shes in mid so she can run gank bot or top. Shes like NS like that. It happens to often for my taste mind you but it is what it is. I'm tired of seeing Ns, drow, clinkz running ganks bot or top iover and over again. Or pudge. uggh.

I tend to play with a friend, we run a wisp/carry combo and literally always dominate our lane.
They problem is that she roams bot because she can't screw with us and gets fed that way somehow. It seems like it happens EVERY game too.
Sometimes one of us is fed enough to shut her down, sometimes were not.

The warding is a good idea though, I'll remember to tell my team to ward or at least place them everywhere from now on.
I usually whatever river of the lane were in.

Originally Posted by Proberly

Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

None of my DOTA2 copies can be gifted to my Chinese friends anymore. Sad 7 Copies rotting away... and I just know the Chinese affiliate taking over dota2 for china will force a Chinese version of the game on me.

Sange is easier to build and gives benefit along the way, no omni is going to go energy boots > talisman because he's have 700 hp and die in two nukes. Plenty of omnis will go boots > sange because it makes them a tank mid game.

I'm not a big fan of evasion, it really doesn't help much. When people kill you in 4 auto attacks dodging 15% of the time is not noticeable. Especially when most *good* carries have attack modifiers that make their auto attacks much more guaranteed. Talisman omni meet nether strike.

Halberd and items like that are definitely luxury items for Omni, you get them after you already have the basics covered - Meka or Drums, Blink Dagger, Soul Ring, etc. And while Sange builds easier, you aren't going to have the free item slots to carry all the different pieces around - at most you'll have one slot free, and personally I think 15% evasion is better than some small amount of strength. The maim isn't even worth considering because it's completely RNG and you have Degen Aura, anyway.

Halberd and items like that are definitely luxury items for Omni, you get them after you already have the basics covered - Meka or Drums, Blink Dagger, Soul Ring, etc. And while Sange builds easier, you aren't going to have the free item slots to carry all the different pieces around - at most you'll have one slot free, and personally I think 15% evasion is better than some small amount of strength. The maim isn't even worth considering because it's completely RNG and you have Degen Aura, anyway.

Drums doesn't really give enough HP to justify ToE, and even if you only have one free item slot you can still fit Ogre Club in it and even that is likely to be better than ToE. From Ogre Club it's 1050 gold to Sange, and if you don't buy it you're still 800 to ToE. The Maim is always worth considering because it stacks with your aura and 20% proc isn't that difficult to get. But like I said, even if Sange gave you nothing but passive 304 HP, it would still be better than ToE most of the time.

Did you actually have some justification for buying ToE over Sange other than than your own arbitrary preference?

Drums doesn't really give enough HP to justify ToE, and even if you only have one free item slot you can still fit Ogre Club in it and even that is likely to be better than ToE. From Ogre Club it's 1050 gold to Sange, and if you don't buy it you're still 800 to ToE. The Maim is always worth considering because it stacks with your aura and 20% proc isn't that difficult to get. But like I said, even if Sange gave you nothing but passive 304 HP, it would still be better than ToE most of the time.

Did you actually have some justification for buying ToE over Sange other than than your own arbitrary preference?

Just feels like having a chance to dodge a carry's hits for 200-300 dmg is better than a small amount of flat HP, especially since I can always use Repel if I'm really worried about magic damage. Like, if they have a Drow, I want to dodge those 500 damage crits, not rely on 190 extra HP to help me soak them.

---------- Post added 2012-12-31 at 06:32 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Lillpapps

Always go Vlad's on Omni unless you already have it in your team.

I don't often get Ring of Basilius on Omni because Soul Ring eliminates mana issues, and I'd rather have an extra free slot for wards, dust, orb of venom, etc.

So you rather have a ToE over a Vlads?... I dont know what to say really. The damage aura alone is enough to get it as 4th item.

Because ToE builds into Halberd, which provides a disarm effect. After Blink Dagger, my usual choices are sheepstick, Halberd, or Shiva's. Vlad's is nice, but I don't really think it's as useful as any of those other three items unless we have a melee carry - and if we have a melee carry, they're probably getting Vlad's anyway.