question by a tiling newbie

Hello, I have a bathroom where the builder installed a shower head (by
mistake) over our whirlpool tub. The tub has a tile splashguard (two rows
of ceramic tile topped by a bullnose row of tile, for a total of three
rows). I've decided to go ahead and finish the tiling so that we can use
the shower. The tile is installed directly onto green board. My questions
are these:
1) Is it okay to continue the next rows of tile above the bullnose if I
seal it good above the bullnose and the row of new tile (perahaps with a
good caulk of silicone)?
2) Given that this shower will only be used perhaps once or twice a
month (it is a secondary bathroom), will it be okay on the green board if I
seal the grout on an annual basis?
Since this home is only 4 years old, I'm loathe to tear out the wall and put
in cement board. Also, what alternatives are there to tile that would look
good? I would install it above the existing rows of tile. Most surrounds
I've seen look like they wouldn't go in well with the oversized tub and
existing tile. I've toyed with the idea of glueing acrylic sheet to the
wall and then caulking the seams with white silicone, but am afraid it won't
look good when I'm done. (But then I wouldn't be able to play with my new
Rotozip tile cutting bit :-) )
Thanks for the help,
Craig caheaton(AT)netzero.net (AT) = @

HOO BOY, another can of worms tile/greenboard/cementboard post.
Watch to see the blood and body parts flying <LOL>
But first, as you have been in the house for 4 years, are you constantly
punching holes in the existing greenboard ?
If yes, you better get the cement board up quick.
If no, and it's in good shape, there is no reason to rip out the existing
walls.
As it sounds like you have a general idea about what is involved with tiles,
you should not have any big problems.
The surrounds are usually more expensive than "standard" tiles, especially
if you are doing your own labor.
And never are as good. (come loose, hard to keep sealed) and you would have
to rip out the existing 2 rows of tiles and patch any damage to put them in
But then they go in fast.
Avoid the really cheap ones, they warp the first hot day you get.
Unless you can get acrylic/formica sheets very cheap, it usually costs as
much per sq.ft. as the ready made surround.
Will always look like you cut and glued it yourself, and the same problems
as surround, (hard to seal, come loose)
As it's very likely that any other bathrooms you (and all your neighbors)
have, are also greenboard with tile.
And you prefer not to remove it before adding more tiling.
Just carefully pry off the bullnose, being careful not to rip the greenboard
paper any more than you have to, and continue with tiles.
Grout and caulk it properly, and you shouldn't have any problems.
Of course some anal retentives will insist you rip it all out and put in
cement board.
Perhaps they will offer to cover the costs for you as well.
AMUN

Whoa, down boy, down.
No need to "tear out the wall". Peel the three rows off and install
Haridbacker or Denshield over the existing drywall. Don't worry about
disturbing the drywall paper some as the backer will cover it. Then
tile using thinset mortar.
If you were hiring a pro I would recommend a mortar substrate over the
drywall as the numero uno substrate.
Do NOT under any circumstances take advice from an idiot named AMUN.
He's a clueless moron regarding tile, electrical and various other
construction issues. And as things go AMUN will (thankfully) dissapear
as his kind usually do when confronted with their bad advice by those
who are epxerts in their respective fields.

I'd rip out the drywall and install 1/2" Hardi-backer (that's what I did
in my laundry before tiling the walls). Sheetrock is easy to pull down
and hardi-backer is almost as easy to work with as sheetrock. In fact
it's "easier", considering that there is no need to make the tape joints
perfect. I have found that a 3-3/8" circular saw makes cutting it easier.
....speaking of which, I have some floors to tile (hardi-backer today) ;-)

Take off the tile and put up a thin layer backer board. Hardibacker
board would work: http://sweets.construction.com/mfg/1160/P25249.htm
as would Wedi board: http://www.wedi.de/usa /
The Wedi board is easier to work with than drywall, much lighter than
other backer boards, takes tile beautifully, is 100% waterproof...need
I go on?
R

My thanks to those who have responded...please continue this thread and
the advice. So far, I've gotten the idea that it is not a good idea to
continue the tile above the bullnose, but no one has said why. If it
is sealed well why would there be a problem? I am also now considering
using a waterproof tileboard (PVC as opposed to wood based) and placing
this above the tile. Removing the existing tile or tearing out any
part of the wall is simply something I am not prepared to do at this
point (I simply can't bring myself to do it to such a new wall, and my
wife would have a fit if I tried.)
Craig

The wife will feel better when you have to tear out the new work and
the old a few years down the road? What does the age of the wall have
to do with it? Your bathtub area was not built as a shower, the
builder made a boo-boo. Why would you want to build on his mistake?
"Sealed well" is an unfortunate choice of words. You won't know if
it's sealed well, regardless of how much caulk and sealer you use,
until you start finding soft spots in the wall or tile starts coming
loose. At that point you're in for a major repair.
Greenboard is NOT waterproof. Not even remotely. It is moisture
resistant. It is not meant to take tile in a shower. If you put up
tile board (which is crap by the way unless you get plastic, then it
just looks like crap) the weak point is the existing tile, which is at
the lowest point and the most likely area to get damaged by the water.
About that one course of tile - is the top edge radiused, a bullnose?
It should be if it was just meant as a splash. If it is, you are
pulling the tile because you'll never be able to seal that well.
You got a free showerhead, that's all. You didn't get a free shower
stall. If you cheap out on the tile work, you will be damaging
yourself down the road. Personally, I'd rather lose the showerhead and
patch the wall than do bad work.
BTW, what sort of secondary bathroom only has a tub? I've never seen a
bathroom with a tub and no shower.
R

All very good points that I will take under consideration....as for the tub,
it is a whirlpool soaker tub, hence the lack of it being made into a shower.
I guess another option we could consider would be to put up a shower curtain
that goes around the tub (bottom inside the tub of course) along the lines
of the kind that are meant for free standing tubs. As mentioned, this is
for a shower that will rarely be used, except for the odd occasion that we
both need the shower at the same time, so it would only be used once or
twice a month or so. As for tearing out the wall, my wife just wouldn't be
happy if I started doing that. (Of course, I kind of feel the same way. We
paid for that wall....seems a shame to tear it out already....sort of a
psychological thing I guess.... :-) )
Craig

My thanks to those who have responded...please continue this thread and
the advice. So far, I've gotten the idea that it is not a good idea to
continue the tile above the bullnose, but no one has said why. If it
is sealed well why would there be a problem? I am also now considering
using a waterproof tileboard (PVC as opposed to wood based) and placing
this above the tile. Removing the existing tile or tearing out any
part of the wall is simply something I am not prepared to do at this
point (I simply can't bring myself to do it to such a new wall, and my
wife would have a fit if I tried.)
Craig

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