And without further ado, here are the rest of the Sailor Moon girls. I tried to do them all at one time but apparently there's a limit to how many pics you can cram into one post.

Hotaru Tomoe/Sailor Saturn

Spoiler:

Haruka Tennou/Sailor Uranus

Spoiler:

Michiru Kaiou/Sailor Neptune

Spoiler:

Setsuna Meiou/Sailor Pluto

Spoiler:

I'm really not too happy with Saturn's and Neptune's second and third pics, Uranus' first and second, or really any of Pluto's except the third one, including the glamor shot. If anybody can find something better I'd appreciate it.

Joshua wrote:also there is another girl from evangelion mari, only problem is i cant find a single uncensored pic. (currently she only apears in evangelion 2.0 which is japan only for now.)

Oh yes, daddy like. *nods* And I don't know where you go to troll for pics but in a few minutes on Gelbooru I'd found everything from her in cat ears and a tail to her making out with Asuka, including enough uncensored or minimally censored h-pics of her in both the ... whatchacallit ... plugsuit and this rather fetching school uniform:

Joshua wrote:also there is another girl from evangelion mari, only problem is i cant find a single uncensored pic. (currently she only apears in evangelion 2.0 which is japan only for now.)

Dammit, I thought someone had already suggested her! I could have been saving all those pictures I kept finding as I was looking for material of Asuka and Misato. T~T

Loup Garou wrote:I find Rei Hino's anal picture terribly amusing... because her right hand is making the AmSLan sign for "I love you." I guess she is fond of that particular form of penetration.

Sounds like my kind of woma... *bricked*

alasdair69 wrote:I'm really not too happy with Saturn's and Neptune's second and third pics, Uranus' first and second, or really any of Pluto's except the third one, including the glamor shot. If anybody can find something better I'd appreciate it.

I can try looking on Pixiv for some other pictures, since most of them aren't posted on the booru sites. I can't promise anything, but that site has probably saved a few characters I've suggested in the past, so it's worth a shot. Actually, I think you should put together a list of girls who you have enough pictures of but aren't quite satisfied with so the rest of us could keep our eyes peeled for anything better.

Also... The first Saturn 'work' picture seems a little... yeah...

Loup Garou wrote:The Meow Meow girls are now listed over on the other page. I did them in "current" simbrot form cause I am still not sure how to write up the girls for Al's version (and I forgot the 2 new stats).

Added them to my 'list of girls suggested on that forum.' I'm not so sure how the newer version is going to work, but I might start trying to suggest my girls under its format (the two new stats are Morale and Refinement). Alasdair, make whatever corrections you think should be appropriate to this, but I'm under the impression that the statistic block for a girl will look something like:

Thanks for the new char set up, Va. I kinda need to know more about the traits (like a list with definitions) to be able to work with that with confidence. I am sure traits is an open list which allows suggestions, I just kinda need something to know what I have to work with now and to help me figure out how to define new traits I can suggest.

And I have 2 questions. 1) Is description "origin"? and 2) What is type?

I was kinda going by what the original form intended; a spot where you briefly describe what the girl is and from where she originates (out-of-game, I mean). I'm not sure if there will be a flavor text for the girls in the actual game, but it's nice to know where the ideas are coming from.

Loup Garou wrote:What is type?

Let's see... I know Alasdair gave a fairly detailed description of what Types are... Just need to... Ah, here we go! It's on the previous page.

alasdair69 wrote:Type: This is the fetish system, basically every guy has certain sorts of women that he especially likes and dislikes and this generally forms trends within population groups; Lady Gaga may be hotter than a whore in church in California but in Twoblondes, South Dakota she’d be stoned as a witch. They can be loosely broken down into four categories: what a girl is (foreign, elf, demon, robot, etc), what she wears (maid, shrine maiden, schoolgirl, law enforcement, etc), what she does (celebrity, ninja, teacher, fighter, etc) and whatever else (waif, glasses girl, high class, bad girl, etc), and a girl can have as many Types as are applicable. The more of a neighborhood’s preferred Types a brothel has in residence the more customers it will attract and the more of a customer’s preferred Types a girl has the greater his satisfaction will be.

Basically, each district will have its own preferences for women. If you have a girl working in said district who possesses one or more of the district's prefered Types, she will attract more customers naturally. Currently, there are no Type penalties (as in having a particular Type that the customers of the district do not find appealing), but it's still an idea, and one that requires discussion.

Loup Garou wrote:I kinda need to know more about the traits (like a list with definitions) to be able to work with that with confidence. I am sure traits is an open list which allows suggestions, I just kinda need something to know what I have to work with now and to help me figure out how to define new traits I can suggest.

I feel the same way, actually. We've already got a starter list of sorts for Themes, but it would be nice if Al could post what his lists/ideas for Types, Traits and Leader abilities so we had a place to start... *produces an elongated, sharpened stick* ... and so the community could begin becoming acquainted with it so it can be further added upon and/or polished.

Vava wrote:Basically, each district will have its own preferences for women. If you have a girl working in said district who possesses one or more of the district's prefered Types, she will attract more customers naturally. Currently, there are no Type penalties (as in having a particular Type that the customers of the district do not find appealing), but it's still an idea, and one that requires discussion.

Some girls intimidate (or scare) the hell out of men. Men from the lower class areas may want to fuck a princess, but are too afraid to approach... Middle class men may have a problem with "common" women (if people see me with her, it may hold me back as I try to advance...). These are just quick examples, but I am thinking of it as the kind of stuff that may reduce customer turn out. If one of the districts is close to a "religious" district, demon and monster girls MAY have a problem attracting customers. Just random ideas on the subject....

It makes me wonder if we can have a system that can figure out if this girl is going to get work not just because of # of customers, but because of probability that customers will ask for her. In a day, 10 girls working, 30 customers show up, but, if girl F is the kind that has a stigma in the area, there is a chance that no one will choose her because... "she doesn't fit in." Or maybe one guy is horny enough and the other 9 are already working..... so she will get ONE customer... but odds on him giving a positive review are REALLY low...

I ask this because as of now, the customers are really generic numbers. It is only the girl who chooses if she will or will not fuck a guy. You can't... design all the men, but... giving +'s AND -'s to the girl's ability to draw a customer to her room based on the area from which the customer comes... (kinda like Gaga in LA or Twoblondes) I am sure the odds on this being worked in to game are... small. But it is a thought.

http://g.e-hentai.org/g/174486/5b35cd7f4f/that should have enough mari, since manny of them have different facial expresions ill let you chose.

on second note, i acidently posted the girls because they were listed on image collection page, so i forgot to double check the list but alls well that ends well. although i dont have any better pics for the outer sailor i can look if you want.

on a more off topic note, the dog girl did not dissapoint she looks kick ass in that suit *drools*

second of all i think these are two of the most sexiest swimsuits in the whole world xDhttp://gelbooru.com/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=127674

third you might want to post on the other form that any one who wishes to suggest a girl, that he/she provide the pics too, might make our job easier.

The problem is that I still don't have enough information on the new system in order for posting it to be plausible. We've been given something to work with for Themes (an explanation and a selection of examples), but that is all. I still need the list of Types and some lists with descriptions of the Leader abilities and Traits that have been thought of thus far. From what Al's said, they're still in something of a draft stage; all the more reason for them to be posted, really.

I'll put together a post for the other forum to describe everything I know so far as well as the crude sheet I put together... Actually, that might help get ideas going, since people will be scrambling to invent Traits, Themes, Types and Leader abilities...

Vava wrote:Actually, I think you should put together a list of girls who you have enough pictures of but aren't quite satisfied with so the rest of us could keep our eyes peeled for anything better.

Vava, when this is all over and I no longer have a use for you, remind me to kill you. *snork* Great, another list. Tell you what, I’ll dig through all 655 folders of pics of girls who weren’t already in the game (since we already know that most of the pics of the ones who were suck) and make a list of the ones I’m not completely satisfied with sometime after I finish collating the lists of suggested stats for you and girls with h-origins for Loup but before I die of a stroke at my keyboard working on the game model, deal? LOL Seriously though, I’ll see what I can do but I won’t promise the speediest of returns on this one, okay?

Vava wrote:Alasdair, make whatever corrections you think should be appropriate to this, but I'm under the impression that the statistic block for a girl will look something like:

Hokay, I’ve read both your post here and the applicable one on the other forum and it all looks pretty good to me as is, with just a couple of teeny, tiny clarifications. First off, Morale is actually more like Health than it is Joy but it’s essentially a combination of the two and with it, the Health ‘stat’ has gone the way of the buffalo. But let’s be honest, it’s almost never actually been used as health in the first place except for losing some when a customer beat up a girl or she got sick. It was always more along the lines of tiredness or exhaustion instead and that’s a lot of what Morale’s going to cover as well. I don’t picture regular work with the regular number of customers lowering it, but if you overwork a girl it’ll start dropping like a stone, as it will if she gets smacked around or gets sick and cranky (heh, maybe I really should put menstruation into the game as a regular drop in Morale every 28 days or so *snork*). The Joy aspect becomes apparent mostly in the ways you can raise it, for instance by giving a girl presents, finding the guy that smacked her around and breaking his knees (and yes, you can do that now ) or by certain particularly happy-making random events. Morale will be the big stat to watch if you’re worried about a girl quitting or running away on you. After all, even if she doesn’t listen to a word you say if she likes where she’s at and has it good a girl probably won’t want to leave but if she’s UNhappy then she’s going to start looking for greener pastures. If she’s unhappy and disobedient … well, somebody’s going to have room for another girl soon. The only other thing is that girls aren’t going to be limited to only three Traits. Just like Types, they could conceivably have as many as are appropriate (within reason, of course), although as I’ve said before they may not all be in full force from the beginning. Think of it sort of like in SimBrothel v1. Some of those girls had almost no Abilities while others had close to a dozen by the end.

Vava wrote:Currently, there are no Type penalties (as in having a particular Type that the customers of the district do not find appealing), but it's still an idea, and one that requires discussion.

Loup Garou wrote:It makes me wonder if we can have a system that can figure out if this girl is going to get work not just because of # of customers, but because of probability that customers will ask for her. In a day, 10 girls working, 30 customers show up, but, if girl F is the kind that has a stigma in the area, there is a chance that no one will choose her because... "she doesn't fit in." Or maybe one guy is horny enough and the other 9 are already working..... so she will get ONE customer... but odds on him giving a positive review are REALLY low...

I ask this because as of now, the customers are really generic numbers. It is only the girl who chooses if she will or will not fuck a guy. You can't... design all the men, but... giving +'s AND -'s to the girl's ability to draw a customer to her room based on the area from which the customer comes... (kinda like Gaga in LA or Twoblondes) I am sure the odds on this being worked in to game are... small. But it is a thought.

Yes it is, and a very good one at that. So good in fact that I’m glad I already thought of it. LOL Actually, that’s been the plan from the very beginning and a big element of the strategy I’m trying to force-feed into this game. Since players won’t know from the outset what Types are especially liked or disliked in each area it’s going to be by keeping an eye out for which girls are and aren’t getting customers where that they’ll be able to figure out how to staff each brothel for maximum efficiency.

Vava wrote:Actually, that might help get ideas going, since people will be scrambling to invent Traits, Themes, Types and Leader abilities...

Wait... Is this what Alasdair had planned from the start?!? O.o

Busted. Yeah, that’s actually exactly what I had planned from the start. As I’ve said before, the whole Type/Theme/Trait system is very much a work in progress right now and to be honest it’s not progressing very fast. I have to go through each girl individually to determine what Types, Themes and Traits might apply to her and then compare/contrast them all to figure out which ones are applicable to enough girls to warrant making them a measurable part of the game mechanic. This, as you might imagine, is both tedious and time consuming and time (and opportunity) is something I’m especially short of right now with things being as they are at work. So yeah, any ideas the milling throng want to toss out for consideration would be greatly appreciated.

Vava wrote:The problem is that I still don't have enough information on the new system in order for posting it to be plausible. We've been given something to work with for Themes (an explanation and a selection of examples), but that is all. I still need the list of Types and some lists with descriptions of the Leader abilities and Traits that have been thought of thus far.

Umm … Vava? I hate to be the one to break this to you but you actually posted that list of Types you’re referring to three posts up when you were answering Loup. LOL I know what you’re saying though, I’ve been scant with the details thus far, but things really have gotten to the point where I need to give you guys something to work with. I just hope everyone appreciates what I’m about to do; my OCD makes it damn difficult to show people something in an unfinished state and I can already feel my eye twitching like Chief Inspector Dreyfus in those old Pink Panther movies. But anyway, you guys both need and deserve answers so here you go, just bear in mind that this is both incredibly preliminary and so rough you could plane a door with it.

We’ll start with Types because they’re the closest to actually being locked down; these may change a little before it’s over but most likely will remain mostly intact. Like I said before, they’re loosely grouped into four categories but that’s more to make it easy for me to keep track of them than any actual in-game difference. • As it stands now, the first category (what a girl is) includes Bakemono, Demon Girls, Elves, Fairies, Foreigners, Homunculi and Monster Girls/Yokai, all of which have been previously explained. I honestly can’t imagine enough girls of any other type that would fall into this category being added to warrant expanding this list any further. • The second category (what she wears) so far includes maids, military personnel, nurses, policewomen, schoolgirls and shrine maidens. I initially wanted to include dominatrixes but couldn’t think of enough girls who dress like that to do it. I’ve also toyed with the idea of adding cheerleaders and super heroes (not as far-fetched as it might sound, actually) but I don’t think there are enough of those either. Note that this is entirely based on the girl actually wearing the uniform in question; having healing skills or abilities won’t make a girl a nurse but if she’s known for wearing a nurse’s uniform most of the time then from a fetish point of view she’d qualify, whether she has the skills to back it up or not.• The third category (what she does) has celebrities, criminals, entertainers, fighters, mages, ninja and teachers on it at the moment. Celebrities would include anyone with a fan base, whether they’re the most popular girl in school, a net idol or a pop star. Criminals are just what it says on the tin, girls known far and wide to be outlaws and law breakers, whether they’re Robin Hood types or ruthless murderers. Entertainers would include musicians like the K-On girls or the Prismriver sisters, singers, dancers, actors, etc. I considered a rhythmic gymnast to be an entertainer because they wear cool outfits and it’s fun to watch, and this is probably where cheerleaders are going to end up as well. Fighters isn’t just anybody who can hold their own, it’s people who fight as a way of life like girls from fighting games and series like Dragonball and Ikki Tousen. The others are self-explanatory, although the ninja should probably be moved to the previous category since without the black pajamas they’re essentially just fighters and/or criminals, depending on who you ask.• The last category (whatever else) is a catch-all for anything else I could think of that a guy might find attractive in a woman, barring hair color which is utterly meaningless for these purposes when you consider the range of technicolor options available in anime and video games. A list so far including bad girls, girls with glasses, high class ladies, buxom babes, waifs, lolitas and MiLFs. Most of these are also pretty intuitive, with buxom and waif being comparable to Big Boobs and Flat Chested, respectively, and MiLF being equivalent to Cougar except with the emphasis being on what sort of woman the guy likes instead of the other way around. There’s a very good chance that Maternal Instinct and Ditzy will end up here in one form or another.Note that nun, valkyrie, angel and goddess are special Types with a little more oomph than the regular ones. I’m thinking about a progressively larger percentage chance of each customer finding these Types preferable when confronted with them, up to goddess which would be treated as everyone’s preferred Type.

On to the Traits. This one is difficult because damn near anything could be considered a trait and there will probably end up being a gajillion of them. Many Traits are superficially similar to many Themes, but they only affect the girl who has them and any bonuses/minuses are typically much lower, sometimes less than one, and thus requiring multiple days to become apparent. The ones I’ve thought up so far include:• Contrary: The girl is excessively stubborn and willful. Affect: Will refuse to work more often, even at high Obedience levels.• Curious: The girl wonders about everything and is always full of questions, sometimes at the most inopportune times. Affect: Girl can pop up with a question at any time, even interrupting an action, and you will have a list of possible answers to give her. Depending on the particular question and what answer you give, she could receive a minor bonus or penalty to Obedience or Morale, or it could even make a difference in whether or not she works any more that day.• Debutante: The girl retains a freshness and sense of upward-mobility. Affect: Minor bonus to Charisma and Refinement each day.• Excellent Reputation: The girl is well known and has a large repeat client base. Affect: Always gets maximum number of customers every day, provided they are available and barring other factors to the contrary.• Exhibitionist: The girl loves to show off how beautiful and sexy and charming she can be for the admiration of all around her. Affect: Charisma bonus each day• Friendly: The girl is very pleasant and hard not to like. Affect: Increased frequency of compliments and tips from customers.• Emo: The girl is especially dark, gothic or perhaps just really quiet and withdrawn. Affect: Random bonus/penalty to customer appreciation for each customer the girl sees, as some men like that sort of thing but others consider it a turn off.• Happy: The girl is upbeat and always cheerful, no matter what may happen. Affect: Morale bonus each day• Ladylike: The girl is poised and highly polished. Affect: Refinement bonus each day.• Love Machine: The girl is very prolific and can outwork most other girls. Affect: May take more customers per day• Lucky: The girl leads a charmed life and very little bad ever happens to her. Affect: Fewer harmful events for this girl• Morning Person: The girl is always well rested and ready for the day’s events. Affect: Loses Morale slower if overworked and needs fewer days off• Obedient: The girl follows orders and does what she’s told, without complaining, talking back or giving any lip. Affect: Obedience bonus each day• Renown: The girl stands out in a crowd and always makes a good impression. Affect: Gain more Reputation• Sex Addict: The girl needs to have sex all the time, the more and the more often the better, and there’s no such thing as too much. Affect: Sex bonus each day• Smart: The girl is a quick study and learns from experience better than other girls. Affect: More easily learns new things through training.• Splendid Body: The girl is perfect in form and feature, no flaw can be found in her physical appearance. Affect: Bonus to Charisma for customer appreciation• Spoiled: The girl always wants the finest of everything and may get upset if she doesn’t feel that she’s getting it. Affect: Periodic random penalty to Morale and Obedience, but can be offset by upgrading to better quality clothing and accessories for her.• Switch Hitter: The girl is sexually attracted to both men and women. Affect: More customers attracted to that brothel as she can service women as well. However, if two or more Switch Hitters are assigned to the same brothel and their Obedience is low enough there is a possibility of them refusing to work because they’ve found a quiet corner for a tryst of their own.• Team Player: The girl works best as part of a team and has one or more partners that she works especially well with. Affect: Each girl with this trait is affiliated with one or more of the others. When affiliated girls are in the same brothel there is a good chance of them working together to satisfy customers, generating more gold than the girls would have individually and boosting Building Reputation• Tough: The girl has the stamina of an ox and can work harder for longer than most other girls. Affect: Constitution bonus each day

Right, now it gets tricky. For the most part, Management Styles are pretty much the same as they are now, just with names added and a few tweaks to reflect the new stats. There are two areas though, where they’re handled fundamentally differently. The first, of course, is that they’re always active and providing benefits and/or penalties for so long as the girl who has them is in charge of the brothel in question. The other is that each sister, as the overall manager of the entire operation, will have a sort of universal management style of her own, which will stack with that of each girl who manages a brothel under her, effectively giving each building two distinct styles and two distinct sets of bonuses and penalties. I’m still brainstorming what those universal styles could be, so any ideas anyone may have would be welcomed. Anyway, here’s the list I have at the moment of different management styles:• Accountant: Constantly seeks way to improve profit margin. Affect: More money gained• Agent: Praises employees and shows confidence in them in front of customers. Affect: Bonus to Reputation gained• Artist: Emphasizes quality work. Affect: Small bonus to Charisma and Reputation gained• Assembly Line: Emphasizes quantity of work. Affect: Small bonus to Sex and Constitution• Campaigner: Tirelessly advertises benefits of frequenting establishment. Affect: Bonus to Building Reputation• Coach: Has high standards for employee fitness. Affect: Bonus to Constitution• Driven: Emphasizes quantity at the expense of quality. Affect: Constitution bonus but Sex minus• Goal Oriented: Considers adherence to policies secondary to getting the job done. Affect: Sex bonus but Obedience minus• Ground Swell: Relies heavily on word of mouth advertising. Affect: Lower advertising cost• Hardcore: Coaxes best effort from all employees. Affect: Bonus to Sex• Housekeeper: Keeps workplace clean, organized and well-maintained. Affect: Lower Maintenance cost• Multitasker: Focuses on all aspects of job equally. Affect: Small bonus to each Stat• Penny Pincher: Finds every way possible to cut personnel expenses. Affect: Daily cost of girls lower• People Person: Fosters good working relationship with employees. Affect: Bonus to Morale.• Perfectionist: Strives to be the best at whatever they do. Affect: Enhance Theme effects• Popular: Focuses strongly on customer happiness and repeat business. Affect: More Customers attracted• Price Slasher: Builds brand recognition through sales, specials, etc. Affect: Small bonus to Building Reputation but gain less money• Promoter: Finds ways to make establishment really stand out. Affect: Small bonus to Building Reputation, Customers attracted and money gained• Shallow: Emphasizes style over usefulness. Affect: Charisma bonus but Obedience minus• Short Sighted: Prioritizes job efficiency over customer satisfaction. Affect: Sex bonus but Building Reputation minus• Slavedriver: Insists on adherence to policies and procedures at the risk of employee dissatisfaction. Affect: Obedience bonus but Morale minus• Stickler: Motivates employees to follow all managerial policies. Affect: Bonus to Obedience• Uniform Standard: Has high standards for employee appearance and behavior. Affect: Bonus to Charisma• Well Respected: Earns respect and goodwill of employees. Affect: Small bonus to Obedience and Morale• Train Wreck: Not everyone has managerial qualities, some just get overwhelmed when placed in charge. Able to achieve small specific goals but loses control over everything else in the process. Affect: Small bonus to either Charisma, Sex, Constitution or Reputation gained (selected randomly each day), but minus to either Obedience, Morale, Building Reputation, Customers attracted or money gained

And there you have it. Sorry for playing so much of this so close to the vest for so long, but I hope this helps.

Alasdar69 wrote:make a list of the ones I’m not completely satisfied with sometime after I finish collating the lists of suggested stats for you and girls with h-origins for Loup but before I die of a stroke at my keyboard working on the game model, deal?

The scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail in which Arthur et al are in the cave... being attacked by the monster... facing death... but are saved when the artist dies of a massive heart attack is running through my head right now. 8-)

As I read through the other stuff, there is a concept that is kinda foggy for me. Mostly it has to do with the difference between a trait and a type. I assume that type is just something that deals with drawing in customers in general and traits are aspects of the character which can have effects other than just draw on the character. I have a feeling that there will be blurry lines between the two. For instance... Maternal instincts. It will draw in customers... but it will also give.... more positive interactions between customer and girl, so it will get girl more tips and more positive reviews from customers... like friendly.... but I think it would be a greater result... first idea that comes to mind is more repeating customers.

I know there are grey parts through out the universe (the platypus is a mammal, but it lays eggs), and we, too, are going to have some exceptions to our rules. So I am thinking it would be good to figure out the best way to deal with situations like this.

The other is that each sister, as the overall manager of the entire operation, will have a sort of universal management style of her own, which will stack with that of each girl who manages a brothel under her, effectively giving each building two distinct styles and two distinct sets of bonuses and penalties. I’m still brainstorming what those universal styles could be, so any ideas anyone may have would be welcomed.

The universal styles of the goddesses are Lolita (Skuld), Obedience (Belldandy), and Nymphomania (Urd). I think that the basic lvl 2 of each current defination of the themes would work (+1 charisma, +1 rep...... +1 Obed, -10% girl costs.... and +1 sex, +1 rep... respectively) Bell would save lots of money, but Urd and Lolita would get reps up faster and have higher net income.... so it would basically equal out in the end. The difference would be the stat bonuses. If we were to take it a little further... there are 6 stats and 3 goddesses... 2 each... one could add +1 constitution to Skuld (health of youth), +1 refinement to Belldandy (refinement gained through obedience), and +1 morale to Urd (nymphos just wanna have fun).

But hey... I am just making this up as I go along... 8-)

Last edited by Loup Garou on May 19th 2010, 5:54 am; edited 1 time in total

• Coach: Has high standards for employee fitness. Affect: Bonus to Constitution

If we make illustrations of these management styles, Coach makes me think of a locker room scene with the quote "Let's win this one for the Zipper..." comes to mind.

Of course the first jokes for this that ran through my head were more for a cheerleader than a coach... such cheers as "Rick 'em, Rack 'em, Rock 'em, Ruck 'em. Get those johns and really fuck 'em." And "E-rah-rah A-rah-rah T-rah-rah Me-rah-rah. E-A-T Me-rah-rah. Eat me raw-rah." ran through my mind. (Cheers I learned in college... well... second one is a standard cheer... first one I wrote as a variation on "rick 'em rack 'em rock 'em ruck 'em, get that ball and really.... fight.")

I know... I know... of little importance... but the joke was there... I had to tell it.

Loup Garou wrote:The scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail in which Arthur et al are in the cave... being attacked by the monster... facing death... but are saved when the artist dies of a massive heart attack is running through my head right now. 8-)

Gee ... thanks.

Loup Garou wrote:As I read through the other stuff, there is a concept that is kinda foggy for me. Mostly it has to do with the difference between a trait and a type. I assume that type is just something that deals with drawing in customers in general and traits are aspects of the character which can have effects other than just draw on the character. I have a feeling that there will be blurry lines between the two.

You really think so? Because it seems fairly straightforward to me (but then again, I wrote it so of course it does). Basically Types are generalizations, categories that each girl fits into mostly for purposes of determining what (and therefore who) the customers like more, and are a way to lump the girls together into groups. Traits are specifics, individual attributes that each girl possesses whether anyone likes them or not, and are a way to make each girl more individual. There will be some correlation between the two, but mostly in that a girl's selection of Traits will probably help explain why she's considered to be a certain Type in the first place. For instance, a girl might be a Bad Girl in large part because she's a Spoiled Sex Addict, or High Class thanks to being a Ladylike Debutante.

Loup Garou wrote:For instance... Maternal instincts. It will draw in customers... but it will also give.... more positive interactions between customer and girl, so it will get girl more tips and more positive reviews from customers... like friendly.... but I think it would be a greater result... first idea that comes to mind is more repeating customers.

I keep telling myself that one of these days I'll finally figure out that writing posts when I'm tired is a bad idea, but somehow I still end up saying things at 3am after a 12 hour shift that I have to explain/correct once I've gotten some sleep. Saying that Maternal Instinct and Ditzy would probably end up as Types actually made sense to me last night but in the harsh light of day I have to say they'd both be much better served as Traits than anything else.

Loup Garou wrote:The universal styles of the goddesses are Lolita (Skuld), Obedience (Belldandy), and Nymphomania (Urd). I think that the basic lvl 2 of each current defination of the themes would work (+1 charisma, +1 rep...... +1 Obed, -10% girl costs.... and +1 sex, +1 rep... respectively) Bell would save lots of money, but Urd and Lolita would get reps up faster and have higher net income.... so it would basically equal out in the end. The difference would be the stat bonuses. If we were to take it a little further... there are 6 stats and 3 goddesses... 2 each... one could add +1 constitution to Skuld (health of youth), +1 refinement to Belldandy (refinement gained through obedience), and +1 morale to Urd (nymphos just wanna have fun).

On the face of it this seems like a pretty good idea, but once the drugs wear off ( ) it becomes apparent that there are two pretty big flaws with it. The first is that girls would be gaining stats way too quickly, making the game too easy and undoing a lot of my hard work to make it more challenging. The second is that, with the exceptions of Morale and Reputation, Management Styles won't permanently increase stats any more than they do now (which I forgot to mention in my post) and, as I'm pretty sure I've mentioned at some point, Themes won't either. Besides, I'm really wanting to come up with something a little more unique for the goddesses, to be honest. Something to set them apart even futher from the basic rank and file and play up their roles as the 'Powers That Be' in this game, you know?

Loup Garou wrote:The scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail in which Arthur et al are in the cave... being attacked by the monster... facing death... but are saved when the artist dies of a massive heart attack is running through my head right now. 8-)

Gee ... thanks.

glad I could help... 8-)

alasdair69 wrote:You really think so? Because it seems fairly straightforward to me (but then again, I wrote it so of course it does). Basically Types are generalizations, categories that each girl fits into mostly for purposes of determining what (and therefore who) the customers like more, and are a way to lump the girls together into groups. Traits are specifics, individual attributes that each girl possesses whether anyone likes them or not, and are a way to make each girl more individual. There will be some correlation between the two, but mostly in that a girl's selection of Traits will probably help explain why she's considered to be a certain Type in the first place. For instance, a girl might be a Bad Girl in large part because she's a Spoiled Sex Addict, or High Class thanks to being a Ladylike Debutante.

I was CLOSE.... and I can see how there can be correlations between trait and type.... but sometimes the ladylike debutante can become the bad girl. Just an idea.

alasdair69 wrote:

Loup Garou wrote:For instance... Maternal instincts. It will draw in customers... but it will also give.... more positive interactions between customer and girl, so it will get girl more tips and more positive reviews from customers... like friendly.... but I think it would be a greater result... first idea that comes to mind is more repeating customers.

I keep telling myself that one of these days I'll finally figure out that writing posts when I'm tired is a bad idea, but somehow I still end up saying things at 3am after a 12 hour shift that I have to explain/correct once I've gotten some sleep. Saying that Maternal Instinct and Ditzy would probably end up as Types actually made sense to me last night but in the harsh light of day I have to say they'd both be much better served as Traits than anything else.

This is why new eyes is helpful. Able to spot stuff like that.

alasdair69 wrote:On the face of it this seems like a pretty good idea, but once the drugs wear off ( ) it becomes apparent that there are two pretty big flaws with it. The first is that girls would be gaining stats way too quickly, making the game too easy and undoing a lot of my hard work to make it more challenging. The second is that, with the exceptions of Morale and Reputation, Management Styles won't permanently increase stats any more than they do now (which I forgot to mention in my post) and, as I'm pretty sure I've mentioned at some point, Themes won't either. Besides, I'm really wanting to come up with something a little more unique for the goddesses, to be honest. Something to set them apart even futher from the basic rank and file and play up their roles as the 'Powers That Be' in this game, you know?

Hey.... I was takin' a stab. But I gotta ask something. Themes are not perm in this version? Then what is? How do girls expand their stats? People learn... evolve. If not, people like Sanaki would never really gain sexual ability.... and she starts with a 0. (BTW We were talking princesses... I just noticed.... Sanaki is not just a princess.... She is an empress.)

Loup Garou wrote:I was CLOSE.... and I can see how there can be correlations between trait and type.... but sometimes the ladylike debutante can become the bad girl. Just an idea.

You're absolutely right, of course, but I was just citing a potential example of the way in which Types and Traits interrelate to one another. It was entirely hypothetical, especially since until Traits get nailed down better nobody actually has any yet. LOL As a side note, there's at least one girl who actually qualified for both High Class and Bad Girl, which I wouldn't have thought possible until I was writing it out and realized just how much sense it really made. Go figure, huh?

Loup Garou wrote:Hey.... I was takin' a stab. But I gotta ask something. Themes are not perm in this version? Then what is? How do girls expand their stats? People learn... evolve. If not, people like Sanaki would never really gain sexual ability.... and she starts with a 0. (BTW We were talking princesses... I just noticed.... Sanaki is not just a princess.... She is an empress.)

You know Loup, I like you and all and I certainly don't mean any disrespect but I have to ask, do you even read the posts? I explained this two pages ago in this very thread, hells Vava and I even had a brief discussion about it. Are you sure that 'Loup Garou' isn't really some other language for 'Attention Deficit'? LOL But anyway, just for you (and anyone else who is easily distracted by bright, shiny objects) I'll go over it again.

Raising stats in my game model is handled via an updated form of the 'learn by work experience' system of the original. There won't be any experience points to fool with though, it's all going to be automatic. The more customers a girl sees, the more her Sex stat will go up and probably her Constitution as well. The more times she entertains someone non-sexually, the higher her Charisma will rise. The more she does what you tell her to, the better her Obedience will get. The reverse is also true of course, with stats going down if they're not used enough (which can quickly turn into a viscious cycle of frustration in the case of Obedience). What I didn't mention in the previous post though, but I'll throw in here as a freebie, is that most stats for most girls will have an upper limit that they can reach through daily experience. In order to progress beyond that plateau a girl will need to undergo special training, although even with the training most girls will still have limits as to how high their various stats can go. After all let's be honest, not everyone has what it takes to be the best.

And your comment about Sanaki actually segues quite nicely into something else I wanted to mention before people started submitting girls based on the new system. As you might remember (well, you probably won't but some of the others might ), at one point I recommended that instead of actual numbers people start suggesting stats based on a sliding scale ranging from 'almost nonexistent' through 'very low', 'low', 'average', 'high' and 'very high' all the way up to 'near godlike levels'. Well, there was a reason for that. Between adding replay value and trying to fend off rabid fanboys who are pissed that their favorite girl doesn't have high enough stats for them, I decided somewhere along the way to randomize the process. Basically, at the beginning of each game the program will determine a random number between x and y for each stat of each girl, then apply two sets of modifiers to them. One set of modifiers will be inherent to the girl in question based on that sliding scale I mentioned. The other set will be based on what area the girl is available for hire in; for instance girls found in the Slums will have a bonus to their initial Sex, Constitution and Obedience scores but a penalty to their starting Charisma, Morale and Refinement. In short, at the beginning of each game each girl will have her stats randomly determined, then modified by who she is, then modified by where she's at, with the result being a completely different set of stats for each girl in each game that will still make some degree of sense considering the girl in question and the part of town you picked her up in.

at one point I recommended that instead of actual numbers people start suggesting stats based on a sliding scale ranging from 'almost nonexistent' through 'very low', 'low', 'average', 'high' and 'very high' all the way up to 'near godlike levels'.

though I used numbers, I never expected them to be used exactly.... only demonstrations of the levels a girl should have in that stat. So if I have 0-10 that is "almost non-existent". 11-20 very low, 21-40 low, 41-60 average, 61-80 high, 81-90 very high, 91-100 godlike.

Loup Garou wrote:though I used numbers, I never expected them to be used exactly.... only demonstrations of the levels a girl should have in that stat. So if I have 0-10 that is "almost non-existent". 11-20 very low, 21-40 low, 41-60 average, 61-80 high, 81-90 very high, 91-100 godlike.

Oh I know, and that's exactly how I took them. I just wanted to make sure that everyone understood the whole 'randomization plus modifiers' concept is all.

Christ, I wish I was staying at home right now, but having another person literally antagonizing you into killing them isn't something I'd rather put up with, right now.

alasdair69 wrote:Vava, when this is all over and I no longer have a use for you, remind me to kill you. *snork* Great, another list. Tell you what, I’ll dig through all 655 folders of pics of girls who weren’t already in the game (since we already know that most of the pics of the ones who were suck) and make a list of the ones I’m not completely satisfied with sometime after I finish collating the lists of suggested stats for you and girls with h-origins for Loup but before I die of a stroke at my keyboard working on the game model, deal? LOL Seriously though, I’ll see what I can do but I won’t promise the speediest of returns on this one, okay?

>.> I thought that this list would have been brought up eventually, anyway, since you'd have to take another look at all the girls once we reach 1001 and would have to make some last-minute adjustments before they would be added to the game...

alasdair69 wrote:Morale is actually more like Health than it is Joy

I had actually started thinking about that when trying to put together a V3 Reimu (I made up quite a few Management and Trait abilities, Rest being one of them). I'll be sure to update the info on the other forum as soon as I'm done with this post... or whenever I get access to a computer, again, anyway. :S

alasdair69 wrote:(heh, maybe I really should put menstruation into the game as a regular drop in Morale every 28 days or so *snork*)

<.< ... How about not?

alasdair69 wrote:finding the guy that smacked her around and breaking his knees (and yes, you can do that now )

The violent vigilante within me is pleased. >:3

alasdair69 wrote:The only other thing is that girls aren’t going to be limited to only three Traits. Just like Types, they could conceivably have as many as are appropriate (within reason, of course), although as I’ve said before they may not all be in full force from the beginning.

Oh... kay. I'll probably need to rework the example girls I tried piecing together, but that sounds fair enough. Although... Perhaps a maximum should be established? I mean, I doubt we'll be getting bunches of girls with, like, fifteen Traits, but it's still nice to know what a reasonable maximum should be.

alasdair69 wrote:What I didn't mention in the previous post though, but I'll throw in here as a freebie, is that most stats for most girls will have an upper limit that they can reach through daily experience. In order to progress beyond that plateau a girl will need to undergo special training, although even with the training most girls will still have limits as to how high their various stats can go. After all let's be honest, not everyone has what it takes to be the best.

Hmmm... for some reason, this makes me feel like the highest value a stat can reach for any girl should be higher than 100 (though no girl should be able to start with a stat higher than 100). Although... How will we determine what the maximum should be without crazed fanboys bitching about their favorites having too low of maximums (maybe based on their starting stats?).

alasdair69 wrote:The other set will be based on what area the girl is available for hire in...

I'm guessing that girls will also be randomly placed within certain areas (different for each girl) at the start of each game, as well?

Loup Garou wrote:though I used numbers, I never expected them to be used exactly.... only demonstrations of the levels a girl should have in that stat. So if I have 0-10 that is "almost non-existent". 11-20 very low, 21-40 low, 41-60 average, 61-80 high, 81-90 very high, 91-100 godlike.

This sounds like an appropriate rating system.

Okay... I'm going to try and have my brain decode the information that I have been provided so I can partially digest it and regurgitate it on the other forums for others to absorb (although the enzymes I possess might not be as compatible with their systems, so...). A disgusting analogy? Yes, but it works.

Anyway, as I said earlier, I'm not at home right now because a drama fag has been trying to arouse my anger way too much over the last three days. In the mean time, I'm staying with a few friends; none of their computers could be considered shared, so I basically get maybe one opportunity to read up and post anything a day. :/

Joshua wrote:well interesting, and everything, but alsadair, but were those mari pics good enough?

They were great Joshua, thank you. There's one thing I'm thinking about though and as I'm not very conversent with Evangelion I'd like to get some additional input from anyone who'd like to chime in. I don't know if it's my OCD or just that I think it's a nice touch but I'm big on making girls from the same source match in a way that reflects whatever relationship they may have in their original continuity. For instance I made sure all the Azumanga Daioh and Lucky Star girls were wearing the same school uniforms (I found pics of them in a pink one and a blue one) in every pic where any element of it was visible and I spent weeks researching the Dragonball timeline until I knew how old everyone else would have to be if Pan was old enough to service customers, then pic-mining to find images in which they could reasonably be considered to be that age. The Dragonball thing becomes especially important when you realize that we have two mother/daughter pairs and a grandmother/mother/daughter trio to work with. But anyway, while I haven't done a serious search myself yet the majority of the pics I've seen of Mari have been in a school uniform, all the pics that have been sent to me for Asuka are in her plugsuit and the pics I have for Rei are about half and half. Now, I've only seen the first few episodes but am I correct in understanding that while they may have been students it wasn't a big part of the story and therefore it would be more appropriate to have all three of them in their plugsuits (they're not really any more far out than the stuff some of the other girls are wearing)? Especially since, if the school uniform is more fundamental to the characters, they would then have to be listed as the Schoolgirl Type.

Joshua wrote:and im guessing we will have to make ANOTHER list, as to who needs stats defined.

That's actually already in the works. I'm collating all the stat/theme suggestions that have been sent to me thus far since Vava was drafted ... ahem ... has graciously volunteered to help me fix them (and boy do some of them need fixing, apparently everybody is a big-boobed nymphomaniac *snork*) and bring them in line with the new format. If you'd like to help, I'm sure he'd be more than grateful for any assistance.

Vava wrote:>.> I thought that this list would have been brought up eventually, anyway, since you'd have to take another look at all the girls once we reach 1001 and would have to make some last-minute adjustments before they would be added to the game...

Oh I know, I was just being a little more smartass and snarky than usual is all. Truth be told, if nothing comes up I can probably have all three lists done in a weekend. *shrug*

Vava wrote:

alasdair69 wrote:(heh, maybe I really should put menstruation into the game as a regular drop in Morale every 28 days or so *snork*)

<.< ... How about not?

Heh, the word for today, boys and girls, is 'sarcasm'. LOL

Vava wrote:Oh... kay. I'll probably need to rework the example girls I tried piecing together, but that sounds fair enough. Although... Perhaps a maximum should be established? I mean, I doubt we'll be getting bunches of girls with, like, fifteen Traits, but it's still nice to know what a reasonable maximum should be.

You're probably right, although I was pretty much going to play it by ear and only step in if something got out of hand. This really is all more an art than a science after all, and I never would have expected anyone to have seven Types but Evangeline managed to pull it off.

Vava wrote:Hmmm... for some reason, this makes me feel like the highest value a stat can reach for any girl should be higher than 100 (though no girl should be able to start with a stat higher than 100). Although... How will we determine what the maximum should be without crazed fanboys bitching about their favorites having too low of maximums (maybe based on their starting stats?).

I haven't gotten it all sussed out yet but the way I picture it the initial random range for all girls would be fairly mediocre and the inherent modifiers would be pretty scant on average (with a few exceptions of course for the truly outstanding), resulting in stats ranging from moderately low to halfway decent before location modifiers are applied. Those modifiers would push the starting stats for each girl to anywhere from pretty low to pretty good, just like now, allowing plenty of room for improvement throughout the game from experience and training. Then the maximums for each stat will also be determined randomly for each girl, also on a sliding scale. If you graphed it out, it would probably look like a big unbalanced diamond shape with the majority of girls having limits for the majority of stats in the 'good but not too good' range and tapering up to a point with a comparative few girls with no limits at all and a small point on the other side with a few girls who have really low limits. The trick is going to be figuring out a simple way to apply it that will always result in some girls having generally low maximums, some having generally average maximums with one or two low ones, some having generally average maximums, most having generally average maximums with one or two pretty good ones, some having generally pretty good maximums with one or two unlimited ones and a few actually being unlimited across the board.

Vava wrote:I'm guessing that girls will also be randomly placed within certain areas (different for each girl) at the start of each game, as well?

Exactly. Most will be in the Slums and Lower Class wards, a nice chunk will be in the Middle Class ward and a handful in the Upper Class ward. No girls will be available for hire in the Palace ward, although they could still be attained via the Slave Trader, Take a Walk or random events.