Childlessness
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Page 2

kalel wrote:
Also the whole "I don't want to change nappies and get up in the night" thing is really overstated. It's nothing.

Bearing in mind I still retch and heave after scooping out the cat's litterbox every other day for over a year, the thought of dealing hands-on (perhaps literally) with human shit a couple of times a day for several years doesn't inspire much confidence in my coping abilities there.

Do you manage to wipe your own arse? If so you'd be fine. Somehow when it's your own kid, it's magically ok. Believe me, I was worried about that one.

That's fair enough, but still. You'd think they'd toilet train easier. Kittens know what a litterbox is for after about two days of being alive. You'd think with our advanced brains we'd be able to not shit ourselves regularly past the age of two. Mowgli excepted.

If I have kids, if they're not walking and talking by day five then the entire thing would be a disaster.

Graveland wrote:
One thing that I have noticed though is how many childless couples have a pet (usually a dog) and lavish it with affection as though it was a child - often going so far as to referring to their pets as "boys" or "girls" and themselves as "mum" or "dad".

I never wanted to be a dad. I don't like other people's children - though that's probably down to shitty parenting than the kids themselves.

But I have three children. Why? Because I married two women (not at the same time obviously) that did want children.

I love my children and I'm very proud of them. I mostly like being a dad. Like it more than working full time that's for sure, and so am a full time dad while wifey works full time.

Being a parent is damn hard. The hardest thing I've ever done. It is relentless and draining. And there are several times every day I think I may have been happier just being on my own - especially as I'm an introvert. But then my youngest son - aged three - will give me a cuddle. And I can't think of anything I'd rather be than a dad.

I completely understand the OP. If I'd married someone who didn't want kids I would have said okay, no kids then. It wouldn't have caused me any pain or problems at all. My life didn't go that way, but I totally get why people could happily live without being a parent - because I could have too.

Maturin wrote:
Being a parent is damn hard. The hardest thing I've ever done. It is relentless and draining.

This is a key part to me, mostly because I am very, very lazy.

Incidentally, what I mean by selfishness is stuff like what just happened to Rhythm in the boardgames thread. I enjoy my social life as it is, and it already gets messed around enough by other people's kids (most of our friends are couples with kids). That does seem like it would be fundamentally selfish to a lot of people - that a large part of not wanting kids is because I enjoy my freedom, and enjoy being able to do what I want, when I want, without having to plan things days or weeks in advance and still running a high risk of it falling apart anyway.

With regards to getting the snip as well, the idea I had was to put some of my swimmers into cold storage or something, just in case. Though I know it's not exactly foolproof. But the idea of not having to use any sort of birth control is an exceptionally appealing one.

Graveland wrote:
One thing that I have noticed though is how many childless couples have a pet (usually a dog) and lavish it with affection as though it was a child - often going so far as to referring to their pets as "boys" or "girls" and themselves as "mum" or "dad".

Just think, if you don't have a kid you can drive a humvee while spraying aerosols out the window for a full year and not do a tiny fraction of damage to the planet that contributing one more crying, shitting person does to it.

I was never particularly interested in kids until mine, and I still don't much care for having someone else's kids around me. Love my little girl to pieces though, it really can't be explained what it feels like to look at your child and the feeling doesn't go away. Piss, vomit and shit just is a total non issue, I was worried about that quite a bit.

You might not be into the idea of looking after a baby for a few years but what about the thought of a grown up person down the line in your image, who you've watched grow and helped to get where they are? They could be a really interesting person to know in 20 odd years time. One thing I've been thinking of lately, my wife and I are down to one parent each - what do you do if the unimaginable happens, it'll be just you left.

Maturin wrote:
Being a parent is damn hard. The hardest thing I've ever done. It is relentless and draining.

This is a key part to me, mostly because I am very, very lazy.

Incidentally, what I mean by selfishness is stuff like what just happened to Rhythm in the boardgames thread. I enjoy my social life as it is, and it already gets messed around enough by other people's kids (most of our friends are couples with kids). That does seem like it would be fundamentally selfish to a lot of people - that a large part of not wanting kids is because I enjoy my freedom, and enjoy being able to do what I want, when I want, without having to plan things days or weeks in advance and still running a high risk of it falling apart anyway.

With regards to getting the snip as well, the idea I had was to put some of my swimmers into cold storage or something, just in case. Though I know it's not exactly foolproof. But the idea of not having to use any sort of birth control is an exceptionally appealing one.

You may grow bored of your social life, your career, your personal pursuits. Freedom to do anything may end up as freedom to do not an awful lot because you CBA a lot of the time. Kids bring some interesting chaos into your life and bugger-up all your previously held values - often in a good way. Your perspective on life -and what matters most to you in life- inevitably changes. Changes for the better, in my experience. I'm probably outwardly a lot more boring and sensible for having kids, but it doesn't bother me.

I would echo what Kalel said about you not having to decide yet. You've only been married a short while. Give it a few years and you might welcome a new challenge or someone else to add a bit of variety into your life.

Also, you just can't beat that feeling of being so loved and so important to someone else.

Also, stop using the term 'birth control' it is a sickening Americanism and it has no place here. 'Contraception' is the word you were looking for.

I'm 37 and was 25 when my little Em came about. It was unplanned but I was, and still am, in a loving relationship (now married) and we had already been together a few years at the time. We were never massively social people so it never disrupted our lives a great deal. Less eating out and cinema visits an had to knock going to motor racing events on the head a bit but other than that it has all been good. Although as they get older you get more and more of your'own life' back. It never seemed like a sacrifice and although she was unplanned we were never gutted about it. We were engaged at the time so it just meant putting off the wedding for a couple of years because of money and Em was our bridesmaid so all was good.
One of my mates had a very shitty childhood and was a typica; 'kid from the wrong side of town'. I have known him since we were at secondary school, and he has always been so against having kids because of the unlucky way his child hood developed. He now has a lovely 4 yo son (planned) and he would not change his life for the world.
I also know people older than me that love being single and childless. At the end of the day, everyone is different, wants different things from life and are attracted to different people. It looks like you and your good lady are fine at the moment but I would say it might be foolish to completely rule things out just in case you have some sort of epithany or life changing experience and you decide that you do want little puke monsters after all.

I have one, but I wouldn't have anymore. I love her to bits but I think some people just aren't cut out to have children.

I'm having my tubes done soon, and even though I already had one child I had to argue my case pretty strongly because of my age (34). If you do go for the big V, be ready for lots of questions, especially because of your age.

All joking aside the whole loss of freedom thing can be massively overstated.

I was a lone parent with newborn twins and managed to hold down my job - working at home as a website editor - while looking after the babies. Okay it was knackering on my own, but not many people look after twins on their own.

I still managed to get enough free time when they were babies - thanks to friends who would babysit in the evening - to go out, meet, date and ultimately marry my second wife.

Once married and still living in London we often got evenings out thanks to babysitters. And now we live in Dorset the in-laws are happy to watch our telly for an evening instead of their own while wife and I go out.

Yes babies need attention regularly round the clock. Those first few months are mental. But unless you're unlucky after a few months they'll be sleeping 12 hours a day. Babysitters can watch your telly uninterrupted by children and you can go out for an evening.

My twins are now nearly six and our youngest is three and a half. Unless they are ill they go to bed before seven and sleep for nearly 12 hours. That leaves the evenings very free. My wife works plenty of evenings, I find myself with so much free time now, though not always time I can necessarily go out. But that's my own choice - I don't bother with babysitters unless wife and I want to go out together. But I could easily arrange to go out.

My twins are at school five days a week. My youngest at pre-school three mornings a week. There's loads of daytime freedom for me there too.

I have never been in the situation where I was a parent of just one child but I reckon it's probably a complete doss.

There are a lot of sensible comments in this thread. Especially Kalel I feel. Each to their own, you are entitled to live your life, your way. There is nothing to feel guilty about if you remain childless. There are too many people on the planet anyway.

However the OP is too young to make that decision now, as is his partner. She may be the one who comes to see things differently when her biological clock starts to tick down. Then again there are always exceptions to the rule (see above poster perhaps?). Men are lucky in that they can knock one out pretty much up to the day they die.

Having kids can give your life a new focus when the lure of travel, adventure, socialising and material luxuries seem a bit jaded and meaningless. Yes, that can happen!
So don't feel bad about not wanting to, but don't make any drastic decisions yet.

Densely populated areas are densely populated shocker. You can fit every person on the planet on the Isle of Wight if you wanted to, giving them a 30cm radius of space. Perhaps there's not enough people when you look at all the leftover space in that experiment b

I very, very much doubt you would manage to persuade a surgeon to do a vasectomy on you if you're only 31 and childless. However convinced you may be that you don't want kids, sterilisation (male or female) is supposed to be final (it can be reversed but you're not guaranteed to be fertile) and they are likely to take the view that there's too great a chance you might change your mind in future.