Welcome to HVAC-Talk.com, a non-DIY site and the ultimate Source for HVAC Information & Knowledge Sharing for the industry professional! Here you can join over 150,000 HVAC Professionals & enthusiasts from around the world discussing all things related to HVAC/R. You are currently viewing as a NON-REGISTERED guest which gives you limited access to view discussions

To gain full access to our forums you must register; for a free account. As a registered Guest you will be able to:

Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts.

Will Carrier survive? heck I am more worried if my guys and me will survive the rest of the summer in this heat and humidity in Houston, I have been in business for over 27 years and I have never had a busier summer than this summer "thank you Lord"

__________________________________________________ _______________________“Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". -Vernon Law-

We have been a Bryant dealer since 1999 and have had very little problems. Replaced a few coils under warranty and had two condensers leak that I know of.

Evaporator coils leaking could also be caused be the region you're in.

Most of our new systems get installed with 5" media filters which I believe helps keep the contaminants in the air off the surface of the coils. (with out going into detail)I was told by an engineer that most evaporator coil leaks are from the outside in.

Im sure they will survive. Its not like any brand out there doesnt have their problems. It just runs in cycles. The only problem is that once they come up with a piece of equipment and get all the bugs out of it so it has very few problems, they design something new. The only answer to the problem is come up with a great piece of equipment THEN FIRE ALL THE ENGINEERS. You dont need them setting around all day redesigning something that does work just so they have something to do to justify their job. Oh ya and keep the parts manufactures lobyists away from them getting them to use totally differant parts on every unit so that hvac companies have to have a huge inventory of parts on their shelves , that they will never use.

These are machines folks and they break. Whenever I start *****ing about a manufacturer's recurring problem, it gets engineered out and I find another brand to complain about. Most brands warranty liberally when a known problem is found and I think we should reward that effort with a little bit of loyalty.

So true...

Originally posted by RoBoTeq A major factor of evaporator coil leaks is an improper evacuation during installation. There is nothing that any manufacturer can do about controlling the final manufacturing of any HVAC system, which is done by the technicians at the job site.

If you are running into a rash of leaking coils in one particular area, it just may be the installation practices of the installers in that area.

This i sso true, it's our job in the field to open the front of all those coils up spead the feeder tubes, make sure their not rubbing agaisnt each otehr, tie wrap the crap out of them... Or thier going to rub holes in each other the copper is so thin...

Originally posted by RoBoTeq A major factor of evaporator coil leaks is an improper evacuation during installation.

Can you go into a little more detail on that one? I do not understand how not properly evacuating a system can cause a leak. But am very interested in the concept .

There are many technicians who are simply misunderstanding the reason for evacuation of systems before installing refrigerant.

Many technicians feel that by evacuating a lineset and coil for a set time period is all that is required. Most feel that even if a little moisture does remain in the system it will be taken care of by the filter/drier.

What is not understood is that there are many brazed joints in coils that will trap molecules of moisture. Evacuation needs to be given time to allow all of the moisture molecules to evaporate. Worse, when we have refrigerant oil in the existing lines of a change out system, that oil will have soaked up as much moisture as was in the air that entered those lines when the lines were opened to the atmosphere. That moisture takes time to boil off with the lowered pressure/temperature ratio even of a deep vacuum.

Only if a lineset and coil hold below 1,000 microns for at least 15 minutes after the valves have shut off and the vacuum pump shut down, only then can we be certain that there is no significant moisture left in the system to cause problems. If you are not using a micron gauge for evacuations you are at best guessing what is being done.

OK, lets say the proper evacuation was not done. There are tiny molecules of moisture stuck in the joints of the coil. These molecules of moisture are going to over time attack the copper of the coil and eventually eat pin holes through the coil.

Want to see proof? Of course you do Take a coil that has developed a leak and cut a few sections near joints. If you see green at the joint, that is where the moisture was. Sometimes the situation can be bad enough to tint the refrigerant oil green with the copper oxide that has been eroded away.

...seek, and ye shall find;..

So always seek the Truth, not just what you want to believe to be true…

PRO Advice

Originally posted by RoBoTeq That moisture takes time to boil off with the lowered pressure/temperature ratio even of a deep vacuum.

Only if a lineset and coil hold below 1,000 microns for AT LEAST 15 minutes after the valves have shut off and the vacuum pump shut down, ONLY THEN can we be certain that there is no significant moisture left in the system to cause problems. If you are not using a micron gauge for evacuations you are at best guessing what is being done.

RoBoTek should market a "Truck {bumper} Sticker" to remind All Techs on thorough instllation procedure and proper set-up.

__EVACUATE to 1,000 Micron
..and HOLD for 15 Minutes__
__: RoboTek

__, VERY WELL STATED!

Designer Dan
It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE
Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

Re: PRO Advice

Originally posted by dan sw fl

Originally posted by RoBoTeq That moisture takes time to boil off with the lowered pressure/temperature ratio even of a deep vacuum.

Only if a lineset and coil hold below 1,000 microns for AT LEAST 15 minutes after the valves have shut off and the vacuum pump shut down, ONLY THEN can we be certain that there is no significant moisture left in the system to cause problems. If you are not using a micron gauge for evacuations you are at best guessing what is being done.

RoBoTek should market a
"Truck {bumper} Sticker"
to remind All Techs on thorough installation procedure
and proper set-up.

__EVACUATE to < 1,000 Microns
..and HOLD for 15 Minutes__
__: RoboTek

RObin BOyd, VERY WELL STATED!

Designer Dan
It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE
Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities