A U.S. task force commissioned by the U.S. bishops and Evangelical Lutheran Church of America has produced a new ‘touchstone’ on the way toward full reconciliation — but substantial obstacles still remain.

PETER JESSERER SMITH

WASHINGTON — After 498 years since the Reformation, Catholics and Lutherans have moved from the divisions of Martin Luther’s 95 theses to 32 statements of agreement, according to a groundbreaking new document that summarizes the results of 50 years of ecumenical dialogue.

A new milestone in Catholic-Lutheran dialogue was marked in October, when top theologians, representing respectively the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), created a new baseline for further ecumenical discussion called “Declaration on the Way,” which revealed how much closer the two churches had come together.

“It is a step moving towards unity,” said Auxiliary Bishop Denis Madden of Baltimore, co-chair of the Catholic-Lutheran task force of scholarly theologians that worked for two years to produce the document. “It very much fits with Pope Francis’ call for dialogue and drawing closer together.”

Bishop Madden said the declaration was a response to the expressed desire of Cardinal Kurt Koch, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, that the achievements of the Catholic-Lutheran dialogue be compiled and summarized in a single document.

The declaration’s 32 “Statements of Agreement” on the nature of the church, ministry and the Eucharist — complete with supporting documentation and scholarship — are drawn from the past 50 years of Catholic-Lutheran national and international agreements. The declaration also contains 15 points of disagreement of varying degrees that it recommended should be explored in further dialogues. It also contains suggestions for how both Catholic and Lutheran parishes could grow closer together, while the theological dialogue is ongoing.

“It has been well-received. The Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity said they were happy with the document,” he said, adding the Vatican office suggested that the document be shared at the parish level — “so that the people in the pews might get some benefit from it” — and be forwarded to International Commission for Lutheran Catholic Dialogue.

“We’re hoping that people will prayerfully heed this document,” Bishop Madden said.

Rev. Joy Schroeder, a pastor with the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, professor at Trinity Lutheran seminary in Columbus, Ohio, and member of the task force, said the ELCA will be likely voting on the document next summer to affirm this.

“It is our hope that the Lutheran World Federation (LWF) and the Vatican’s Council for Promoting Christian Unity will find some ways to even more formally approve this declaration of consensus that we’ve already found,” she said.

Unprecedented Agreement

Jesuit Father Jared Wicks, a professor at the Pontifical College Josephinium in Columbus, Ohio, and a member of the task force, said the main effort was on the 32 points of agreement “and demonstrating them solidly from the dialogues that have taken place — the work of our predecessors.”

As a secondary effort, the task force identified 15 points of differences, which they suggested be material for further dialogue carried on both in the United States and globally.

“In 10 of those 15 points of differences, we showed there is very good convergence,” he said, such that they did not judge them as “church-dividing,” but legitimate areas of disagreement. However, “five were clearly out there as church-dividing differences.”

One of these dividing differences was women’s ordination, which the declaration described as a “formidable obstacle.” The Catholic Church and the members of the LWF also hold divergent views on some moral issues, such as homosexuality.

Working Through 500 Years of Division

The milestone in dialogue comes as the Catholic Church and the Lutheran World Federation are getting ready to mark the 500th anniversary of the Reformation in 2017.

“We both see this as no time for celebration, but, rather, a time to see how we can go further along the way,” Bishop Madden said.

The Lutheran-Roman Catholic Commission on Unity has produced a common history of the Reformation and the theological issues involved in a document called “From Conflict to Communion — Lutheran-Catholic Common Commemoration of the Reformation in 2017.”

A joint ecumenical commemoration is also in the works for 2016.

Rev. Schroeder said that the commemorations will eschew a sort of “Lutheran triumphalism,” but instead take a different tone: “celebrating the gifts that Luther gave to the Church, but also commemorating the pain that the division has caused.”

“It would be my hope that Lutheran and Roman Catholic churches together might commemorate this 500-year anniversary,” she said. “We hope that this declaration will be well-timed, so that Catholic and Lutheran parishes might study this together, as well as Lutheran and Catholic seminarians, so that we understand how much we have in common.”

While the ecumenical agreements are important, the expectations for the immediate future are tempered by realism.

“Christians should always be hopeful, but hopeful is not to mean optimistic,” Michael Root, a professor at The Catholic University of America, who has taken part in ecumenical dialogue representing the Lutheran side of his faith until his conversion to Catholicism in 2010. But unforeseen changes do happen, he said, such as the Church’s affirmation of ecumenical dialogue that took place at the Second Vatican Council.

“One needs to be open to do the work,” he said.

Root said the dialogues have resulted in real achievements and have covered enormous ground in the past 50 years.

“When the dialogue first started, there were few contacts, and they were far more negative,” he said.

Father Wicks noted that the prelude to Vatican II’s endorsement of ecumenical dialogue was the common persecution and martyrdom that Lutherans and Catholics experienced at the hands of Nazi Germany. This ecumenism of blood was a pivotal moment that followed with ecumenical contacts between their respective theologians from 1945 until the start of the Second Vatican Council.

Shared Communion?

The declaration’s conclusion invited the Vatican and the Lutheran World Federation to create a process and timetable for addressing the remaining issues. While acknowledging that existing differences between the churches prevent them from sharing in communion, it suggested that expanded opportunities for Lutherans and Catholics to receive holy Communion together, such as in the case of spouses in mixed marriages, be explored.

According to the Ecumenical Directory, Catholics can only receive the sacraments from a minister the Catholic Church recognizes as validly ordained. However, non-Catholic Christians can receive holy Communion in danger of death, when their own minister is not available, and if they “manifest Catholic faith in this sacrament and be properly disposed.” The directory also gives bishops the discretion to establish general norms for evaluating “situations of grave and pressing need” besides danger of death.

“We make mention that most people are not aware of that, and we wanted to see if there could be an amplification of those provisions,” Bishop Madden said.

Father Wicks said one of the issues involved for a couple in an “ecumenical marriage” is that reciprocal communion is not possible under the current discipline. A further issue is that for a Lutheran to manifest Catholic faith in the sacrament would mean to assent to the content of the Church’s Eucharistic prayers, which include invocations of the saints and recognition of the authority of the Pope and the local bishop. He or she could not simply refuse to assent to the content of the prayers and then present themselves for Communion.

“We’ve got to walk carefully along this route,” he said.

The issue of shared communion was highlighted by Pope Francis himself in November, when he took part in a question-and-answer session at Rome’s Evangelical Lutheran Church. In response to a question posed by a Lutheran woman married to a Catholic man who asked if she could receive Communion by virtue of her Christian baptism in accordance with her own conscience, the Holy Father replied that she should “talk to the Lord” about receiving holy Communion “and then go forward,” although the Pope also cautioned that he “wouldn’t ever dare to allow this, because it’s not my competence.”

Some observers, including the pastor of Rome’s Evangelical Lutheran Church, subsequently interpreted the Pope’s comments as constituting a papal authorization of intercommunion with Lutherans. In a Dec. 12 interview with the Register, Rev. Jens-Martin Kruse called the Holy Father’s comments an “open door,” adding that he thought his own parishioners now feel at more liberty to receive Communion that they did previously.

However, in Dec. 22 comments to the Register, Cardinal Gerhard Müller, the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, said such interpretations of the Pope’s remarks were erroneous.

“Misunderstandings come up again and again because of a failure to take account of the fact that, unfortunately, there is actually a different understanding of the Church between Catholics and Protestants, and these differences are not only theological-conceptual, but of a confessional nature,” Cardinal Müller said.

Confessional Lutherans Take Note

The “Declaration on the Way” will also have a positive impact on the ecumenical dialogue under way between the Vatican and the International Lutheran Council (ILC), which represents confessional Lutherans, who hold different theological views than the churches belonging to the Lutheran World Federation, such as the ELCA.

The dialogue with confessional Lutherans is not as far along as the one between the Vatican and the LWF, ILC spokesman Mathew Block told the Register. However, Block pointed out that the ILC and the Catholic Church are in agreement in areas that divide the LWF and the Catholic Church: women’s ordination and a number of moral issues, including same-sex unions.

“Those are subjects on which we find agreement,” Block said, adding that agreement on these points can allow the dialogue to progress to “deeper issues.”

But the declaration serves as a “good summary” of what has been agreed upon between the LWF and the Vatican, and Block said he was sure the ILC would take it into account in its own dialogue with the Vatican.

“It will certainly be a helpful touchstone,” he said, adding that it will help the ILC focus on those points of doctrinal variance it has with the LWF. For instance, the ILC believes that there are still issues on justification that need to be explored, even though the LWF and the Vatican announced a historic agreement in 1999.

“Particularly as we see the 500th anniversary of the Reformation in 2017, it is nice to know that Catholics and Lutherans can sit down, talk through these things and try to find the unity for which Christ prayed for his Church.”

I agree with several posters that the LCMS is closer to Catholicism than the ELCA. The major point on which we differ is actually Purgatory, just as it was when Luther defected from the Roman Catholic Church. I am Lutheran and I believe that I will go the same place St Dismas went upon death—to Paradise. Lutherans do not believe that we have to be purged of our sins after our death, we believe that Christ did that for us on the cross. A lot of Catholics I know actually have a Lutheran belief about what happens after death. And in my mind, this is the critical issue that separates Catholics from Lutherans and other Protestants.

Posted by Virgil Evans on Thursday, Jan, 28, 2016 5:47 PM (EST):

Where theology is concerned in the current ecumenical effort is concerned, there are only three positions that can be realistically held: 1. Acceptance of Catholic teaching. 2. Acceptance of Lutheran teaching. 3. A new, consensus oriented doctrine that will lay both #1 and #2. To rest. Anyone interested placing bets on this one?

Posted by MikefromED on Wednesday, Jan, 27, 2016 5:49 PM (EST):

“The “Declaration on the Way” will also have a positive impact on the ecumenical dialogue under way between the Vatican and the International Lutheran Council (ILC), which represents confessional Lutherans,..” Could that, perhaps, be rewritten:
“The “Declaration on the Way” will also have a positive impact on the ecumenical dialogue under way between the Vatican and the International Lutheran Council (ILC), which represents real Lutherans,..”

Posted by James Butler on Wednesday, Jan, 27, 2016 5:39 AM (EST):

The only thing Luther did was make the church examine herself closer. He didn’t reform Christianity, he deformed it. If one grew an arm out of the back and a toe out of the forehead,would one call them reformed or deformed?. We wouldn’t celebrate the anniversary of the American Civil War,and we should not celebrate the anniversary of the heretical deformation.

Posted by Theresa H on Sunday, Jan, 24, 2016 11:37 PM (EST):

....Also, it is my understanding that a Lutheran or any non-Catholic is welcome to attend Mass in a Catholic Church, but no one should receive Holy Communion if they are NOT Catholic—in union with Rome! If a Lutheran (or any non-Catholic) wants to receive Holy Communion, he/she should approach the priest (or someone in the parish) and explain their desire so that they can be initiated into the “requirements” for receiving Holy Communion—i.e., formal education re. what the Catholic Church teaches about the Eucharist, the Sacrament of Penance, etc., etc.) I had the experience of a man telling me after Mass in the Small Hall in back of our Church, lately, that he “received the bread today”! I was shocked: “BREAD!” Then He told me he was Lutheran!!! Seems to me, given the “ecumenical spirit” around these days, our priests should bring up the fact in Church during homilies and/or before beginning to distribute Holy Communion that while non-Catholics are welcome to attend Mass, they should NOT approach the Eucharist for Communion. (Ignorance is NOT bliss!) St. Paul spoke about this, saying that a person who approaches the Eucharist and is not in the proper state of soul is “guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord.” (1Cor.11:27) This “ecumenism” that is being “discussed” these days needs to be better explained by our bishops and priests to the faithful—and to non-Catholics who may be attending Mass in the Catholic Church! This happy, happy singing about all being “one” in the reception of the Holy Eucharist can also bring about “condemnation!”....But we don’t want to talk about that!!! No doubt about it, we all need God’s Mercy, but nonetheless, we have the WORD OF THE LORD on this matter of Holy Communion!

Posted by Theresa H on Sunday, Jan, 24, 2016 5:53 PM (EST):

As I recall, Pope Francis said something to the effect that he did not want to/ cannot live alone in the Papal Palace above St. Peter’s Basilica—like the previous Popes over the centuries—So he moved back to the Domus Santae Marthae to live in the company of Emeritus Pope Benedict. Pope Francis also said he likes to talk with people….All the more do we need to keep in mind that the FACT is, not everything any Pope says is “infallible teaching”—unless he is iterating teaching that has already been publicly declared “infallible.” Nor is everything a “reporter” says the Pope said when Pope Francis speaks with people! We know what the Catholic Church teaches re. the “reception of Holy Communion”—and the words of St. Paul to the early Christian Community about the consequences of receiving “unworthily” (in mortal sin) and/or “not discerning” the Body and Blood of the Lord. Reception of Holy Communion also normally entails Eucharistic Fast. Likewise, if one is not in “communion” with the Catholic Church, Holy Communion should not be given to the person.

Posted by Micha Elyi on Sunday, Jan, 24, 2016 12:39 AM (EST):

Only when Lutherans who love Christ Jesus see that repeated attempts to honestly reconcile their congregational leaders to the Church have failed, and when what separates Lutheran belief from Christ’s truth is made too obvious to deny any longer, will people of good will still worshiping in Lutheran halls begin to return home in large numbers to the Christian Church that is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

So the work of reconciliation of the Separated Brethren to the Church continues.

Posted by VistaNow on Friday, Jan, 22, 2016 9:09 PM (EST):

Wow, is this correct. Of course it is! The Holy Father is not changing or giving away our Catholicity, but rather wants to be friend and invite all to come and see. I think it is true, not just an opinion. Here is what St Paul says 1 Co 3,11-15——11for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. 12If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13the work of each will come to light, for the Day27 will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire [itself] will test the quality of each one’s work.f 14If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. 15But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, 28 but only as through fire.

Unless LUTHERANS become CATHOLICS there will always be a divid ! The Body of Christ in the Eucharist is what unites us not politics !
Married Priests. Homosexuals, Lesbians… Why we could not befriend Luther ? did he not persecute German Catholics, burning our Churches and desecrating our ALTARS and Libraries….Bravo !!
Today, he is a good brother again together with wives and children.
You designated Martin Luther Square to Honor him in Rome as well for all his great works excommunication.
OR perhaps if you wash his feet he may follow Christ, we should give him a chance more like the Muslim woman’s.

Posted by J.R. Hochstedt on Sunday, Jan, 17, 2016 4:27 AM (EST):

Ecumenism dies the death of a thousand agreements. One can only imagine what will come into Francis’ head—“Let’s no’ bicker and argue about ‘oo killed ‘oo…This is supposed to be ab ‘appy occasion!” ( Yes, that is from Monty Python & the Holy Grail.)

Posted by vistanow on Friday, Jan, 15, 2016 2:02 PM (EST):

Interesting to know why the LMS (Lutheran Missouri Synod) is not included in the latest ecumenical talks. Let us hope that the Lord moves in the heart of the people involved in this movement, and not build false hope. When for us it is impossible to agree on superficial Issues, let alone who is an ordained minister and remaining true to Jesus Christ and the structure of the Catholic Church

Posted by Jane Jimenez on Friday, Jan, 15, 2016 12:58 PM (EST):

Thank you, Mark!
“How has the Church and the Lutherans “moved close” to unity? The ELCA, supports aborton, homosexuality and women ministers. It supports higher critical views of Scripture.”
What drew me from the Lutherans to Catholicism (RC) was the absolute clarity of Catholicism in defending life and sexual ethics. (Theology of the Body) When did “dialogue with” come to be conflated with “communion with”?
Following the pattern of the Reformation, one can only imagine other Protestants protesting exclusion from communion, pointing to the ELCA’s status. Southern Baptists are closer to RC than the ECLA in doctrines on life and sex ethics. Are we now parsing which RC theological positions matter and which we can ignore for the sake of creating open communion? Dialogue? Yes. But to what end? Isn’t it for the purpose of helping others come to acceptance of RC faith? My husband is still Lutheran (Missouri Synod), and both of us understand that we love Christ, share a baptism in Christ and yet differ on some critical points of faith.

Yes, we are unhappy about HOW the Pope is approaching the Lutherans and the confusion that is being caused by it. Yet, as Catholics we have to stay firm in the Truth while presenting our concerns grounded in reason and charity. Unfortunately, the Pope’s many friends and acquaintances outside the Catholic church seem to be influencing his attempts to simplify access to the Eucharist. I encourage all of us to approach our own bishops with our concern, pointing out the churches teachings on reception of the sacraments and the scripture that supports the doctrine.
I have been scandalized by many Catholics since I joined the church in 1995, yet I choose to remember the Catholic laity, priests, bishops and popes who inspired me to become a Catholic. I am grateful that there are many of us, including priests and bishops, who are striving each day to live their lives according to God’s Will. There is a battle in the church, let’s be part of the solution, grounded in prayer and speaking the truth when we are surrounded by error, trusting God will touch their hearts and bring them into the light of TRUTH.

Posted by JG on Thursday, Jan, 14, 2016 10:46 PM (EST):

This article is physically painful to read for any true Catholic. Celebrating the heretic Reformation? Really? The only time to celebrate is when the schismatics and heretics abandon their false path and return to the One True Catholic Church, the ark of salvation, outside of which NO ONE can be saved.

Posted by Theresa H on Thursday, Jan, 14, 2016 12:03 AM (EST):

Now I know “why” the man I sat across from after Mass a few weeks ago in our “Small Hall” behind our Church said to me: “I received ‘the bread’ today.” (I was shocked inwardly when he said: “The bread”) Then, he added: “I am Lutheran.” I was all the more shocked (at the time) and told our Pastor who had come back to the Small Hall….Fr. John told me to tell him NOT to go up for Holy Communion—which I did!

Posted by Patti Brown on Wednesday, Jan, 13, 2016 7:54 PM (EST):

I had a very difficult time reading this. So we now are “commemorating the Protestand Reformation?” I believe the correct term is the Protestant Revolution. Granted, there were some bad clerics at that time, but Luther hated the Mass. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the center of our Catholic Faith. There will never be unity unless the Luthern church completely agrees with the Catholic Church in every area of disagreement and converts, as the Anglican Ordinariate has done. To have these nice dialogues and smile, “aren’t we all getting along nicely…” is wrong!
As for Pope Francis’ comment made to the Lutheran woman who asked the question of him about receiving Holy Communion, he couldn’t be clearer - he would not allow it, it is above his competence (i.e., it is Jesus’ competence ONLY!

There are three requirements for receiving Holy Communion in the Catholic Church. 1) To be a Catholic 2) In a state of grace. No unconfessed serious sin (only an ordained priest may give absolution for sins on behalf of God). 3) Believe that Jesus is truly present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Eucharist. Please recall what the Lutheran minister who Pope Frances met with said: “I believe the Pope gave us permission to receive communion in the Catholic church”, and then he added “and we don’t have to agree with Catholic teachings to do so”. There are three problems here. 1) If one is not Catholic then they are not properly prepared to receive Jesus in Holy Communion. 2) Catholic doctrine teaches the only way to be released from mortal sin is sacramental confession. Therefore, if a Lutheran or other denomination presented themselves for Communion and has committed an unconfessed (they are not Catholic, so they won’t have been to confession) sin they will be bringing damnation upon themselves and those who encourage them to go to communion in that state will be materially culpable. 3) Belief in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, knowing that ONLY an ordained Catholic Priest may celebrate Mass.

Posted by Patti Day on Wednesday, Jan, 13, 2016 2:17 PM (EST):

I will leave the theological discussions to the experts and will say only that Pope Francis’ ambiguous ‘spiritual direction’ last month to the Lutheran spouse of a Catholic man regarding reception of Holy Eucharist was very unhelpful and markedly confused and separated the average laity on both sides.

“According to the Ecumenical Directory, Catholics can only receive the sacraments from a minister the Catholic Church recognizes as validly ordained. However, non-Catholic Christians can receive holy Communion in danger of death, when their own minister is not available, and if they “manifest Catholic faith in this sacrament and be properly disposed.” The directory also gives bishops the discretion to establish general norms for evaluating “situations of grave and pressing need” besides danger of death.”

More simply expressed, a non-Catholic “in danger of death” who professes “communion” with the Catholic Church which the Catholic priest would need to affirm the non-Catholic’s conversion as does the priest for every baptized person. This can not be some kind of interior unspoken assent but a true profession of faith, conversion and fidelity to the Catholic Church. Neither should Catholics partake in a communion service of another faith which in kind would not be valid and contradictory to the Catholic faith and the Eucharistic union of the one Catholic faith.

Posted by michaelcebu on Wednesday, Jan, 13, 2016 1:03 PM (EST):

Full reconciliation is only the writer’s way of grabbing your attention. In reading the Vatican ecumenism document “FROM CONFLICT TO COMMUNION”, which is referenced in this article, I conclude that Catholics and Lutherans are even farther from the unity that Jesus preached about. In the section “Called to Common Commemoration” (paragraph 222), I fail to see the commonality when in fact the divide which started during the Reformation 500 years ago now extends to all the way to Pentecost (per the Lutheran contributors to the referenced Catholic document at the Vatican library).

Catholics should desire unity with their Christian brothers and it will happen in due time with prayers and love.

Posted by Nathaniel on Wednesday, Jan, 13, 2016 12:24 PM (EST):

This is very problematic as Catholics and Lutherans believe very different things. For example Lutherans believe in Consubstantiation which means Christ is only present during the Consecration and disappears after, while Catholics believe in Transubstantiation In which Christ is truly present in the Eucharist Body,Blood,Soul and Divinity. Therefore Lutherans couldn’t receive Holy Communion in a Catholic Church unless they converted. And Catholics can’t receive communion in a Lutheran church because it isn’t Christ. Not to mention the Catholic Church is based on 2000 of Catholic Tradition and just scripture which is a protestant thing. So you can’t negate Tradition. Plus this doesn’t call people to.conversion and for the previous commentors who mentioned conversion and for my mother and godmother who both converted this is a disgrace to the Truth and the Catholic Church. Also you have to get over the fact of the priesthood and having apostolic succession which Lutherans do not have. This who document creates more problems and will confuse Catholics even more and will lead further away from conversion.

Posted by Donald Link on Wednesday, Jan, 13, 2016 11:52 AM (EST):

In addition to the perceptive comments of Mr. Sipe, it should be pointed out that there is the question of unity within the Lutheran church’s three main branches. Couple that with a perception by Lutherans as seeking parity with Rome and Rome seeing Lutherans as a return to the Church, you really get a bridge too far in regard to unity. There has always been the possibility, in certain limited circumstances, of Lutherans receiving communion in a Catholic church but because of the question of the validity of Lutheran orders, the reverse is simply not possible. No one questions the desires of Lutherans and Catholics but they simply desire different things whether they realize it or not. For the first century of Lutheranism, service were still called the mass and Bach the greatest composer for the mass. Unfortunately, naming something does not make it so. Short of Devine intervention, rather than wholesale unity movements, we will see individuals and small groups return to Rome as the Spirit moves them.

Posted by CMA on Wednesday, Jan, 13, 2016 11:49 AM (EST):

When I first saw this and another article, I wondered, what are we doing. I remember when this collaboration first began, I was excited, until I learned that the ELCA is very liberal on social issues. The Lutherans with whom we have so much more in common are confessional, particularly the Missouri and Wisconsin Synods.

Why be Catholic? Really? The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, isn’t that enough? That and others are the points we need to dialogue on. Having left the Church for over 30 years and being a protestant of one ilk or another for 20 odd years, then to be drawn back precisely for this reason, I have studied for years both formally and informally. We have so much to dialogue about, but we also have an amazing amount in common. And to assume that we do not, or that they have nothing to offer is sad and arrogant; to think that we can limit God. The church tells us, we are bound by the sacraments and the magisterium etc. but we cannot ‘bind’ God…God works where and whenever He so pleases.

As Catholics say we have the ‘fullness’ of faith, the revealed faith (you think we know every single thing? I do not) and I believe that very strongly. Our Protestant brothers and sisters have spent the past 500+ years ‘doing away’ with this or that, they are negative outgrowths rather than positive. They wished to cleanse Christianity of all that is ‘Roman’. Much of what they have jettisoned comes directly out of our Jewish roots; it isn’t Roman at all, but Jewish. And so they may be mistaken in how they explain what has been retained, since they have to come up with an explanation. But we are also a ‘both/and’ faith, so what they have kept still has validity as do some of how they explain their understandings.

Much of what separates us, is a misunderstanding of language and/or downright prejudice. These dialogues are meant to break down the latter as well as shed light on the former.

The best thing here in this article is I see we are talking to the confessional Lutherans who do have so much in common with us but whose prejudice has been fed too well over 500 years.

As someone who teaches and administers an RCIA program, what I love about Catholics is we do not proselytize, we evangelize. And, like the Church has done for 2000+ years, we build on the faith of our inquirers and/or on that which is good in their values faith tradition. That is why you virtually never see Catholic converts denigrating their former faith tradition. You DO see former Catholics turned protestant (fundamentalist, some evangelical, Pentecostal and Mormon) continually bad mouthing Catholicism. Why? Because those groups proselytize; out of ignorance and/or a belief that the ends justify the means, they berate our believes and those who ‘fall for them’ as a way to create anger and hate in former Catholics. That is not true of mainline Protestants and good ‘orthodox’ Christian denominations, but it is not as far as I have seen and should never be the Catholic way of evangelizing.

My take is we pray for the dialogues to continue and for groups like the ELCA to appreciate of how our faith extends to life and sexuality etc. And we should pray with Jesus, that we will all come to a greater understanding of the Truth (Him) wherever it lies so that we can be one, as He and the Father are one.

Posted by Anita Gill on Wednesday, Jan, 13, 2016 11:41 AM (EST):

And then they will become Catholic, right?

Posted by Dave on Wednesday, Jan, 13, 2016 11:14 AM (EST):

George, you are absolutely right. I spent 11 years as an ELCA pastor before returning to the Catholic Church (via a short stay in a “more orthodox” Lutheran body) and I too am flabbergasted that Fr Wicks could boldly claim that there are only 15 areas of disagreement, 10 of which have close “convergence,” and only 5 were “church dividing.” Is he blind? (I know, he is a Jesuit) First of all, that’s protestant speak for whitewashing differences. The Church is NOT divided…. you’re either in or out. Let’s stick with the more accurate description - found in Vatican II also - that these are “ecclesiastical communities”, they may have God’s grace - as its open to all - but they are not Church, so there cannot be a division.

Plus I still don’t trust the ELCA as far as I can throw them - metaphorically speaking, of course. They will jump into bed with ANY group with a verbal façade of “convergence” and “non-church dividing differences” and continue on their merry way of apostasy and immorality. They PRETEND to be a “church” for an image of tolerance and being “in line” with our family histories, yet continue to embrace, enforce, and indoctrinate their members and society with neo-pagan, heretical, and immoral ideas and lifestyles.

Posted by Jim on Wednesday, Jan, 13, 2016 10:54 AM (EST):

I left the ELCA 10 years ago. Mainline Lutheran Denominations are NOT Christian. They cross of God’s commandments and teach Moral Therapuetic Deism.

The Missouri Synod is as close to what you would expect a “Mere Christianity” type Christian is and they are small in number.

My last experiences with the ELCA was taking part in a “Class” in which we were to study “Homosexuality” that was developed by the ELCA heirarchy.

They started the “Study” by pounding in our heads that, quote, “We must not take biblical scriptures….out-of-context”...then they proceeded to take them out-of-context on issues of slavery, women, etc. By the time we got to discussing homosexuality the classroom crowd was so worked up with emotion that we did not put sexual acts in its proper context….all we had was an irrational emotionalism void of theology, logic, reverence, respect and tradition.

I remember thinking that this entire “Study” that was suppose to be “Objective & Biblical” delivered across the entire ELCA was intentionally designed from one class meeting to the next to provoke a crescendo-ed emotional response, void of theology, biliblical scholarship and Christian tradition… that would result in a an “ELCA Vote” (As if you can “Vote” on God’s Laws..like the Ten COmmandments” to allow homosexuals to “Marry” and for “Homosexual Pastors” to live together and to normalize degenerate sexual behavior it all its forms…instead of calling Christians to live sexually disciplined lives with its only expression in the marriage of a man and woman.

The idea that leaders in the ELCA intentionally misled people through careful skillful manipulation to acheive an end result struck me as monumentally evil…a monstrous evil in-itself, regardless of the “Topic”.

I confronted the one pastor in my church about it whom I know I could talk to and who probably had more tradtionalist leanings…he seemed extremely uncomfortable with it.

The last thing I remember before I left, was looking at my Great Aunt and Great Uncle in the pews, life long Good Christian Lutherans…in their late 80’s frail and at the end of their life…and I thought to myself, “The Lutheran “Christian” Leadership are going to send my Great AUnt and Great Uncle to their graves by telling them they were absolutely wrong on their understanding of the commandments, human sexuality, marriage and how to live that part of our Christian Lives. ANd Why? Because our sexual predlicitions are more important that God’s laws…How Evil! How awful to do that to people at the end of their life…fill them with confusion.

The idea that we can commune with Lutherans, especially the largest denominations of LUtherans? I was one…consider this an eye-witness account.

Evil

Posted by D. Morgan on Wednesday, Jan, 13, 2016 9:27 AM (EST):

I am with XYZ, If the ELCA wishes to reconcile, accept the Teachings of holy mother Church and come on in!

True ecumenism is to educate the separated brethren of the truth, and bring them to conversion. Not dilute the Church teachings to a lesser standard of belief.

Posted by Ben in WA on Tuesday, Jan, 12, 2016 10:53 PM (EST):

Orthodoxy is looking more appealing every day.

Posted by XYZ on Tuesday, Jan, 12, 2016 8:20 PM (EST):

We as Catholics always welcome converts. What else is ment by full reconciliation? Tell me why this is not another celebration of indeferentism. Give me a reason to stay a Catholic and not to be a protestant again.

Posted by George M. Sipe on Tuesday, Jan, 12, 2016 7:04 PM (EST):

This is alarming. I was Lutheran from birth for over 50 years so I have some experience here. More directly, my synod was absorbed into the ELCA which moves further and further from Catholicism every year.

The document glosses over apostolic succession making it seem like a vague concept. It isn’t. Lutherans do not have valid holy orders, do not have the Mass, do not consider their service to be Christ’s sacrifice, do not recognize most sacraments, have a flawed understanding of the Eucharist and many other very significant issues.

The ELCA (the largest US synod but not a representative of Lutherans worldwide) has women pastors and “bishops”, embraces open homosexuality (a church could have “married”, lesbian pastors for instance) and even includes abortion coverage in their clergy health plans.

As far as US Lutheran synods go, the LCMS would be closer to us.

This looks more like compromise of the truth than true ecumenism.

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