Would anyone care to wax lyrical on these games, or analyze them at length, with regard to the wider cultural landscape as well as technical and subcultural considerations?

They're obviously seminal games, but I briefly searched for news articles from reputable sources of journalism and there wasn't really much written (of quality), that I could find. It feels to me like the coming generations, and even generations heading towards middle age or beyond, have grown up with gaming and many play throughout their lives. Gaming, for better or worse, is becoming much more of a universally-shared cultural experience. For some reasons that are good and some that are bad, it is looked down on by many people, but aren't computer and video games just the same as games like chess and backgammon, but much more evolved?

I'm playing GTA 3 on the PC. GTA 3 marks the point when I finally gave up on my childhood and early adulthood gaming obsessions and took myself completely out of computer gaming, focusing on learning workplace and academic skills, and socialising, etc. So when I return to it now, it doesn't feel too dated (I haven't played many recently-released games). I'm having a great time letting off steam and aiming for 100% completion, as well as indulging in some nostalgia. The game's humour is so perfectly judged that the dodgy morality can easily be overlooked. There's something very compelling about learning the map and all the behaviours in the sandbox environment, and I can't help feeling that playing such a game in depth has some benefits in life, despite the occasionally-oppressive endemic criminality of the theme. Maybe one benefit is just to partake in the experience of many others who have been fans of the game (or others), (as if) to say "I was there"; "I understand you".

By far the main drawback to me with video games is the potential time lost that one could spend reading; that's why I try and keep gaming sessions down to one every ten days or so.

So, gaming v. reading? Is that even a thing? Is true spiritual enlightenment possible for those who don't read, or (for example) just read YA or other genre fiction? I seem to have digressed, so feel free to answer the questions at the beginning, or those at the end. Or just pitch in with whatever you want to say.

How much time did you spend on video games, that it was either play them or socialize? I've always played video games up until about five years ago. They never affected my social life, or ability to function in school.

Video games are no different in the time-wasting department from TV or the internet. It's all a matter of one's personality.

Originally posted by vivifyHow much time did you spend on video games, that it was either play them or socialize? I've always played video games up until about five years ago. They never affected my social life, or ability to function in school.

Video games are no different in the time-wasting department from TV or the internet. It's all a matter of one's personality.

It was one particular game that I was addicted to, Civilization II. I don't know how many hours I used to spend on it, but I'm pretty sure I would sometimes play all night and have no energy left during the day. Because I got used to spending so long on Civilization, I was probably more likely to play other games at unhealthy hours. But even if I played for 3 hours a day, that's still time that I could have used to learn other computer skills, or learn other things, and didn't.

I play Civilization IV now but I'm able to put it down when I want to.

Shameless self promotion of me playing Bloodborne and Dark Souls 2. Highly recommendable games. Most of this is me fighting against other people or me invading other people's worlds and attempting to kill them.

Originally posted by SeitseNowadays I play sandbox only. The genre has ruined any other gaming
experience for me. Why would anyone play anything else?

Out of FIFA, of course.

What is this 'sandbox' you speak of? I don't think I've ever heard the term.

I play MMOs mainly, I used to play a LOT of City of Heroes when the servers were still up, then switched to WoW when CoH died, but recently (within the past year) got sick of WoW after their last crap expansion, so I moved back to EQ II, which was kind of like coming home since I started playing MMOs with EQ I way back in the day.

Originally posted by SuzianneWhat is this 'sandbox' you speak of? I don't think I've ever heard the term.

I play MMOs mainly, I used to play a LOT of City of Heroes when the servers were still up, then switched to WoW when CoH died, but recently (within the past year) got sick of WoW after their last crap expansion, so I moved back to EQ II, which was kind of like coming home since I started playing MMOs with EQ I way back in the day.

Sandbox refers to open world games where you as your character can play around with the environment and its inhabitants to their heart's content. GTA, Red Dead Redemption, Saints Row (I think), etc etc

I've been reading some of this dissertation today, on the use of Civilization III for teaching world history and social studies (word doc):
http://website.education.wisc.edu/~kdsquire/REPLAYING_HISTORY.doc

The sections beginning on p. 26 with Research on Games and Simulations in Social Studies Education, are fascinating:

"Specifically, games can be engaging but frequently learners have difficulty making connections between the game system and the referent social/material system the game is intended to represent (Clegg, 1991)."

"For many instructional designers, the debriefing activities surrounding game play have been regarded as possibly more important for engendering learning than the game-playing itself (Heinich, Molenda, Russell, & Smaldino,1996; Livingston & Stoll, 1973; Thiagarajan, 1998). Heinich et al. (1996) recommend a four-step debriefing process following game play involving the following questions: (1) How did you feel while playing the game? (decompressing – feelings); (2) What happened during the game? (describing – facts ); (3) How does this activity compare to other phenomena? (drawing comparisons – enhancing transfer); (4) What might you plan to do differently in future activity? (deriving lessons – application)."

"Lloyd Reiber (1996) [...differentiates] between endogenous games where the “content” is inseparable from game play and exogenic games where the game play is a reusable format that is layered on top of game content, as in crossword puzzles, matching games, or trial-and-error games (e.g. Hangman)."

"Will Wright (2002), designer of The Sims and SimCity argues that digital games might be fruitfully divided into three overlapping activities: contests, hobbies, and interactive stories.... Contests are interactive experiences where competition, winning, and losing are key elements of the experience...Unreal Tournament, Madden Football and Quake as typical of such games and compares them to other competitive activities such as sports. Hobby games involve creating, collecting, and sharing creations with other hobbyists. The Sims, SimCity, and RailRoad Tycoon are examples of such games. It is worth noting that, in a “hobby” game, playing the actual game is only a minimal part of the experience as building characters or scenarios, publishing them on the web, and experiencing other players’ creations are all a critical part of the experience. Finally, there are what Wright calls interactive story games, where the game experience is about participating in an interactive story, such as in Final Fantasy X, or Baldur’s Gate."

Originally posted by Great King RatShameless self promotion of me playing Bloodborne and Dark Souls 2. Highly recommendable games. Most of this is me fighting against other people or me invading other people's worlds and attempting to kill them.

https://youtube.com/channel/UCbS0zg3gkwKVjWyzB6Z8q1w

I watched your latest upload (How did I die?). The game looks like massive fun. I've never played that type of game before—what are they called, third-person RPGs/MMOs? Were those AIs you were fighting?

Originally posted by NoEarthlyReasonI watched your latest upload (How did I die?). The game looks like massive fun. I've never played that type of game before—what are they called, third-person RPGs/MMOs? Were those AIs you were fighting?

It is very fun. Also very challenging, but highly rewarding. These games have a very steep learning curve, but the payoff is fantastic.

Yes, I believe this would be labelled as an RPG.

In the video you watched I was fighting in another persons game world (the host) in a bossfight against AI together with the host and 2 or 3 other people. So you can cooperate with other players in their world or your own.

However, you can also invade other players. The goal then is to fight against that player and kill him.

The core of the game is single player, though. Which is also great.

I've been playing this game for over a year now, mostly the multiplayer aspect, and am still not bored by it. It is rewarding, punishing, fun, and amazingly aggrevating all in one game.

Originally posted by Great King RatIt is very fun. Also very challenging, but highly rewarding. These games have a very steep learning curve, but the payoff is fantastic.

Yes, I believe this would be labelled as an RPG.

In the video you watched I was fighting in another persons game world (the host) in a bossfight against AI together with the host and 2 or 3 other people. So you ...[text shortened]... ill not bored by it. It is rewarding, punishing, fun, and amazingly aggrevating all in one game.

Do you play on Steam? If so, feel free to add me. Username is The Third Man. Same goes for anyone else interested in this thread.

I'm debating whether to involve myself in RPGs because traditionally I never liked them that much, or at least the 'RPG culture' as I saw it from the outside (going back to the days of Eye of the Beholder on the Amiga, which actually was a pretty cool game). I wanted to be part of musical and artistic cultures, and business and politics and academia, as I started to get older. But over the last few years I've been thinking that I may have underestimated and/or misunderstood the depth and fascination in RPGs, or maybe they've just evolved so much while I wasn't keeping an eye on them...

Originally posted by NoEarthlyReasonDo you play on Steam? If so, feel free to add me. Username is The Third Man. Same goes for anyone else interested in this thread.

I'm debating whether to involve myself in RPGs because traditionally I never liked them that much, or at least the 'RPG culture' as I saw it from the outside (going back to the days of Eye of the Beholder on the Amiga, ...[text shortened]... cination in RPGs, or maybe they've just evolved so much while I wasn't keeping an eye on them...

This is the first time I've ever played an RPG and I don't know a lot about the genre.

But from what I've read these games are head and shoulders above various other RPGs. Bloodborne and Dark Souls 2: Scholar Of The First Sin.

Dark Souls 1 is also very good, but I don't think you can play it on steam anymore. Not sure though.

Originally posted by Great King RatDark Souls 1 is also very good, but I don't think you can play it on steam anymore. Not sure though.

It is (Prepare to Die Edition), but I'd need a system upgrade first. Not happening soon unless I get that nice job in London or Cambridge. But in that case I might not have that much time to spend on it.