Eris Falling said:
Well, since I need evidence of map development before the end of this month, as was discussed at the demise of the old thread, I thought that sending out PM's about this would be a good idea.

We're doing strict vanilla, with the exception of the save size limit overflow or whatever that one vanilla bug is, when you can't load your saves because they're too large.

/\/\/\/\/\ Darn you Eris, my reply is fancier.

Also, if you're making map20 consider using the map28 music for it ("getting tense") and mapping with that in mind? It's not a requirement by any means but i kinda wanted to use map20 music in map28, and it'd be a shame to lose the original map28 music completely from the wad.

MAP22 Update - I've done some amazing architectural redesign some random shit with the boss area. Maybe some re-texturing would be a good idea with that diamond, but it gives cover, makes infighting harder, leading to a longer, harder fight. Also added some bloodfall pillars next to the diamond, because I can.

ComicMischief said:
I'm afraid I'll have to duck out, leaving MAP30 open. I look to be inundated with work over the coming months. Sorry!

I would be very interested to see what you have done for this map up to this point, maybe we could continue your idea and extend your map rather than scrap it and someone start afresh. I wouldn't mind continuing on with it and i'm sure others would feel the same.
@Glenzinho thanks :)

cannonball said:
I would be very interested to see what you have done for this map up to this point, maybe we could continue your idea and extend your map rather than scrap it and someone start afresh. I wouldn't mind continuing on with it and i'm sure others would feel the same.
@Glenzinho thanks :)

Well I'd continue with it, but...
A) You are a better mapper than me, so you can do a better job
B) I'm working on MAP22 at the moment, and not ready to try multi-mapping yet.

I was thinking more a group effort, say me, you, antroid (as he is doing the previous 2 levels it seems kind of apt to include him if he wants to) and anyone else who is active in this project, I can't remember comicmischief's idea too well but it was something to do with the 7 deadly sins and hence at least 7 sections of the map to do, so it's going to be pretty big and hence I thought a group effort would be less stressful than doing doing it alone :)

cannonball said:
I was thinking more a group effort, say me, you and antroid (as he is doing the previous 2 levels it seems kind of apt to include him if he wants to), I can't remember comicmischief's idea too well but it was something to do with the 7 deadly sins and hence at least 7 sections of the map to do, so it's going to be pretty big and hence I thought a group effort would be less stressful than doing doing it alone :)

That's a very good idea actually. Antroid could even redo the final boss area to have a black sky like he wanted. Found these screens from MAP30 in the old thread.

And here was his 7 deadly sins idea, looks like lots of different portals to me.
Unfortunately, 7 doesn't divide by 3 so, how would we work out who does what?

lets just see whether we get the unfinished map, we don't know how far comicmischief got so no idea how much work would be left to do. If we don't get the map, then it's start afresh with perhaps a new idea for the level but with the same plan of progression. If this does occur then it would make sense for antroid to do the start section of the map.
Of course all of this is subjective to other peoples opinions on the matter.

cannonball said:
lets just see whether we get the unfinished map, we don't know how far comicmischief got so no idea how much work would be left to do. If we don't get the map, then it's start afresh with perhaps a new idea for the level but with the same plan of progression. If this does occur then it would make sense for antroid to do the start section of the map.
Of course all of this is subjective to other peoples opinions on the matter.

I think this is great idea. If we don't get the map, I think following the seven deadly sins is the best course of action, that's why I wanted him to send it to us in the first place.
If we do get the map, brilliant.

code:Luxuria (lust) // Interesting to see how this would be done in DOOM
Gula (gluttony) // Not clue.
Avaritia (greed) // I think CM said the player would regain his weapons here.
Acedia (sloth) // Laziness, but I don't think a half-assed piece of map is what anyone has in mind
Ira (wrath) // Probably put the boss in here
Invidia (envy) // Unreachable items?
Superbia (pride) // Not a clue.

I'll get back to you guys when less busy, but the PRIDE portal was the Icon itself; the only one working.

The idea was, I had a 'hub' with 6 portals representing the other sins. They could be taken in any order, but HAD TO ALL BE COMPLETED.

I 666-tagged the sector surrounding the PRIDE portal, the idea being that completion of a sin would close the 'door' sector to it, and also set off a crusher/barrel/keen somewhere hidden -- completion of all of these would open that middle portal.

Like I say, bit busy right now but I can upload what I had of the map somewhere later if it's cool.

Gula: Lots of ammo in the beginning, eat them as you can, and then nothing more than what is needed to kill the monsters (40 imps? OK, 2 boxes of shells). Tartarus’ supplice.
Superbia: You can do it, yes, you can kill all the monsters… and the last one triggers a nasty trap. You thought that it was easy? Now, run.

Actually i don't want to continue that map30. While i like the idea and would've liked to play the finished map, if i was making it i'd probably go for something entirely different for a lot of reasons.

First of all, i would remove the demon face completely and try to somehow just make the player survive in an arena with lots of spawning mobs for a certain amount of time, with or without requiring the player to do anything besides surviving to advance the progression.

Second, the concept of seven sins is far too religiously specific for me, i prefer my religious symbolism to be as generic as possible, the pentagram being the most specific thing i try to ever have in my maps when the theme is classic doom hell.

Third, as for the titular icon i'd probably just draw something sinister enough looking with sectors as the floor of the arena and have it suspended in blackness. To not look completely boring i would maybe add some height variation and walls so the icon is more like an abstract 3d sculpture that we're fighting on top of.

But seeing how i have enough on my plate as it is, i don't wanna try to take on map30 also (even partly). But even if i would, i'd make something sompletely different and by myself.

i would like to contribute with map30, the idea to finish it in grup is great, but my first work is map23 so here it is, the first version of the map. i wish that it not have problems
i hope u like guys, have fun

Remember that this would ideally have been a pistol-start level (I did ask for a suicide exit on MAP29 for this reason, in the old thread). None of the 'sins' would offer any weapons in actuality, but they were ALL present in the Icon's actual arena.

Ideas I had (nothing set in stone though)

-- Luxuria (lust) // A short run through an imp-filled section with many rocket-launchers on pedestals; all of which are voodoo-doll death teleports. Lust all you want for that RL, it ain't happening.
-- Gula (gluttony) // A low-key run through an area with multiple paths; all of which have a power-up in them. ALWAYS go for the power-up of minimum gain (for example, if a berserk/soulsphere/megasphere choice is offered, go for the berserk) or it's death.
-- Avaritia (greed) // Kind of like TNT31's first section, but instead of coloured torches, each square has a power-up or something. Actually, some of them do not; take THOSE squares to be safe. This one would probably have a few projectile-throwers on the outside to keep the tension up.
-- Acedia (sloth) // I took 'sloth' to mean 'going slow'. This would be a time-limited run through an enemy-filled winding corridor with a slow crushing ceiling. A high one, though. Obviously there is limited time to get to the teleporter at the end of the section.
-- Ira (wrath) // You're in a set of barred corridors (MIDBAR texture) with soldiers (just the bog-standard pistol zombies) the other side. All the MIDBAR lines are tagged so that if shot (this is why I wanted to force a pistol, although the fist works too) doors open and all hell breaks loose and kills the fuck outta you. (Probably Masterminds)
-- Invidia (envy) // I had no idea about this. Maybe just a gauntlet-run of enemies who all have weapons you covet. (Sergeant/shotguns, commando/chainguns, cyberdemon/RL, arachnotron/plasma)
-- Superbia (pride) // The icon itself. Pride comes before the fall

So much for 'later', then. Although I won't dig the file out yet, I should be working (lol, freelance).

Joseph Lord said:
i would like to contribute with map30, the idea to finish it in grup is great, but my first work is map23 so here it is, the first version of the map. i wish that it not have problems
i hope u like guys, have fun

Right download and started playing, well before I can comment on this map in any critique to the map itself I have to point out a massive flaw in this map which you have seemed to have overlooked
This is a boom compatible map, pretty much given away at the start. This is a vanilla compatible project and most of the stuff in this map will not work (flying barrels and voodoo doll scripts).
This is where I shall leave things for now as I am on the fence here, when I looked at the map list to start off with I have to admit the one i did not want to do was this map, as creating a unique and interesting map using vanilla settings seems a tall order (well for me anyway). SO I would like to hear other peoples opinion on this matter to do with compatibility as if we stick with the status quo the consequences are simple, complete burning of this map which is a shame for the map itself as I will state now.

Right it looks nice, really nice, mostly stone/brick map with good level of detail. The difficulty is high, borderline hell revealed territory, not that its a bad thing.
There are some traps which I thought were impossible to survive, namely being surround by barrels pretty much means death.
Also the second to last room (mastermind room), there is a hom in the barrel loading area which you can see, as it's dark I assume it's just a missing texture, also the teleporter in that room in the corner needs to be aligned correctly. Bonus points for the original map homage there.
Overall it's a good map, but as things stand the major problem is that it fails the guidelines shown in the OP. I know a lot of work has been put into this map, hence why I thought I would give it an objective review rather than instantly dismiss the map which doesn't help anyone.