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For antifascists, violence is self-defense, because the far-right movements constitute direct threats to their existence and safety, as well as the existence and safety of their communities.

After a fascist march in Charlottesville, Va. left one anti-Nazi protester dead and 19 others wounded, there has been widespread criticism of President Donald Trump’s failure to forcefully denounce white supremacists. However, this condemnation has rarely included a genuine understanding of the actions of antifascist protesters in Charlottesville and elsewhere, creating a continued justification for the “both sides” argument that paints antifascists, or antifa, as equivalent to the white supremacists they oppose.

As a researcher who has attended numerous political and social events with antifascist involvement, and interviewed many antifascists, it is clear to me that politicians and pundits are drawing a false equivalence between white supremacist and antifa actions—and ignoring the direct threat posed by supremacists that motivates antifascist responses. Antifascists often serve as the first line of defense when police and civil society fail to protect marginalized groups from fascist threat. Their actions must be understood in that context.

The flaw in the “both sides” position is that the violent protest actions of antifa are equivalent to the violent actions of white supremacists. A brief examination of the two movements’ approaches to violence points to the fallacy of comparing the two.

For white nationalists, neo-Nazis, the “alt-right” and others in that camp, violence is an end in itself. The ideology that they adhere to not only calls for the violent elimination of any group that falls outside of their narrow conception of normalcy, but also sees violence as the ultimate goal. From classical fascism to self-styled white nationalist social clubs like the Proud Boys, the use of violence is understood to be the means by which one’s goals are achieved. When even the most moderate position the alt-right or fascist movement can take is racial separation or nationalism through forcible repatriation and strict border control, including forced deportations and racialized exclusions, that movement is inherently violent.

But it doesn’t stop there. The “alt-right” is marked by its strategic deployment of symbols and Internet meme culture toward its political agenda. This culture is defined by its violent symbolism, from venerating individuals fighting antifa such as Kyle “Based Stickman” Chapman to the use of “helicopter ride” memes, referential to the murderous Pinochet regime to threatening leftists and antifascists to celebrating the death of Heather Heyer. This is a movement that laughs at the use of violence and encourages its participants to engage in violence as a self-righteous indulgence and source of gratification.

We can juxtapose antifa’s use of violent tactics with the way in which the far-right understands violence. Antifascists are focused on a singular goal as described by their movement name: opposing fascism. The antifascist strategy relies on a variety of tactics. As Spencer Sunshine points out in his history and profile of antifa groups, “antifascists have greatly increased their work on intelligence gathering, doxing and pressure tactics.”

Street confrontations are only a small part of the activity engaged in by antifascists. Antifa more often relies on gathering information about white supremacists and bigots, then confronts them through public shaming. Antifascists who were interviewed and responded to surveys as part of my dissertation research conducted in 2007 and 2008 consistently expressed support for nonviolent tactics, in addition to an escalation of tactics as necessary to stop supremacist events, organizing, and recruitment efforts. It would be a mischaracterization to claim that antifa oppose nonviolence. Instead, it is more accurate to say that antifa often justifiably view nonviolence as ineffective against a movement that is violent at its core, and participants who seem to lack any semblance of a conscience. This is the essence of antifascist use of violence.

Unlike the various supremacist movements that treat violence as valid political expression, antifa treat violence as a defensive tactic against an opposing movement that leverages violence. For antifascists, violence is self-defense, because the far-right movements constitute direct threats to their existence and safety, as well as the existence and safety of their communities.

My research found that antifascists who were willing to engage in violent action were also more likely to face direct or indirect threats from white supremacists as a result of personal identity, political ideology, or spatial proximity. Antifa are often much more diverse than the black-clad, young, presumably white male so often assumed by their representations. The antifa who I interviewed often felt a personal threat from the ideology of white supremacist groups because their sexual orientation, gender identity, race, or religion was a target of supremacist violence. These individuals saw their antifascism as a means of personal self-defense against a group that was targeting them for everyday violence and ultimately violent elimination. Even the white, heterosexual, cisgender men observed a certain amount of personal threat because they are viewed as “race traitors” or “cucks” as a result of their antifascist activism.

The hyper-awareness of such targeting is partially a result of political activism on the part of these individuals that is distinct from their antifascist work. Antifa activists aren’t solely concerned with opposing and stopping far-right movements: They are often involved in movements for racial justice, LGBTQ rights and leftist ideological campaigns for racial and economic justice through radical transformation of society inspired by communism or anarchism. These positions are identified by the far-right as political opponents who are to be eliminated by acts of extreme violence. Antifascism becomes not only a form of personal defense, but also a defense of the political activity that one is involved in. White supremacists and other far-right activists threaten progressive bookstores, organizing and social spaces, LGBTQ events and spaces, as well as places of worship that have included African-American churches, synagogues, mosques and Sikh temples.

Finally, many people choose antifa’s militant tactics because they find themselves much more likely to have some form of contact with white supremacists. Many of the antifascists in my research came to this form of activism because they were involved in punk and other underground music subcultures that were viewed as recruiting grounds by white supremacists. Their activism developed out of the threat of violence that racists brought into those subcultures. Subcultural antifascists come to embrace violent tactics because white supremacists do not leave subcultural spaces when asked nicely or confronted nonviolently. The same holds true when white supremacists threaten political, social and cultural spaces. Their purpose is to intimidate, and violent confrontation by antifa is often the only means of reducing or ending that threat.

The position that antifascist use of violent confrontational tactics is equivalent to the violence of the far-right reflects a lack of understanding of both fascist violence and the threat faced by antifa, and by diverse communities in general. Whereas supremacist movements treat violence as their ultimate goal, antifa approach it as a necessary tactic in self-defense. This position of self-defense is the product of the very real threat the white supremacists pose to antifascists and numerous other groups. Antifa come to understand that threat because their personal identities, as well as their political activism, are targeted by fascist violence. And they are more likely to actually face that violence than the average individual. By understanding the sense of threat observed by antifa, we can gain a greater context for their actions.

Stanislav Vysotsky is an Assistant Professor of Sociology and Criminology at the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater. Dr. Vysotsky’s research focuses on the conflict between supremacist groups in contemporary American society and their militant antifascist opposition through ethnographic and interview research with antifascist activists, in order to understand the relationship between threat, space, subculture, and social movement activism.

Nazis don't actually have anything worthwhile to say.. So allowing them to speak their peace is analogous to condoning the opinions they have. One day its listening to them.. the next day it's watching in horror as they have finished speaking their peace and proceeded to follow that up with violent will. If you rationalize listening to bigotry.. what would make anybody think you would actually do anything to stop bigots from doing violent things? It's appropriate to listen to somebodies message when it's something you haven't heard before and you know that you can both eventually agree on a compromise. Nazis aren't interested in compromise and we have already heard what they have to say. No matter how you rationalize it; it is NOT reasonable to listen to a person who has already decided they are right and other people are not as capable as them or worthy of living. Interest in listening to nazis about anything is just as good as declaring yourself a nazi in my book.. Whether or not it was true about somebody would be quite irrelevant... I have no reason to trust nazis and I have even less reason to trust anybody that would listen to a nazi.. At least with a nazi you know where you stand.. Trusting people that would listen to nazis sounds like a good way to get oneself killed.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2018-02-04 13:37:45

suck it, hag!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2018-02-03 08:27:24

Another product of our "Higher Education" system!!! Godless, Faithless, Ugly both inside and out....TRIGGERED kid that has not had any real adversity in life! LOL just you wait, kid.....

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2018-02-03 08:26:46

Very privileged with good looks an a lot of money!!! You are a skank! Too bad!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2018-02-03 08:23:00

Yes you are right!!! I am also privileged to have a much higher IQ than you as well as much more common sense little girl! You are a liberal/progressive snowflake!!! The real world is gonna eat your fukin lunch and then eat you!!!!! Go sit down and shut the fuk up!!!!

Lol, clearly this article is way beyond your limited comprehension. Dumb as fuck

Posted by Kylie Brock on 2018-02-03 04:51:34

Wow, somebodies very very uneducated and confused, this ones a complete moron Ezmyrelda, he has no concept of false equivalences or comprehension of hos own delusional mixed ideologies. Not worth responding to in all honesty, you can't educate the uneducated.

Posted by Kylie Brock on 2018-02-03 04:48:06

Lol you complete redneck

Posted by Kylie Brock on 2018-02-03 04:44:02

She clearly did, what you wrote was juvenile rubbish

Posted by Kylie Brock on 2018-02-03 04:43:15

Your whole comment is contradictory CondomCA, try an education, you won;t sound so much like a confused little hillbilly.

Posted by Kylie Brock on 2018-02-03 04:42:22

Awwww look who's got a little dick ;)

Posted by Kylie Brock on 2018-02-03 04:40:06

You really are a stupid ignorant inbred hillbilly aren't you Johnny Jerk, considering you are to afraid to post your face you shouldn't be judging others appearance. I'm guessing you are the product of two siblings and ugly and inbred as fuck

Posted by Kylie Brock on 2018-02-03 04:39:25

Well done at displaying your uneducated bigoted inbred attitude for all to see, right wing nutters are afraid of blacks, Muslims, immigrants, refugees, Mexicans, LGTBQ people, feminists and anyone else different from themselves and they call leftys snowflakes lol you people are the biggest cowards there are.

Posted by Kylie Brock on 2018-02-03 04:35:48

No just revolting racist bigoted white pride as displayed by racist bigoted redneck scum like yourself

Posted by Kylie Brock on 2018-02-03 04:31:18

American prisons, still use predominately black people as slave labour.

Posted by Kylie Brock on 2018-02-03 04:29:49

The dumb in you is outstanding, no wonder you hide your bigoted little face, you're a pathetic little grub. Your nation was founded on the genocide of one race and the enslavement of another. Nothing to be proud of fool.

Posted by Kylie Brock on 2018-02-03 04:28:28

Wow, your comment is ridiculous, there is so much contrived bullshit in that statement it doesn't deserve a reply of any note.

Posted by Kylie Brock on 2018-02-03 04:23:50

Your god is fictional for starters but your initial comment would suggest you are white because you displayed your ignorance of your privilege

Posted by Kylie Brock on 2018-02-03 04:21:37

What rubbish, everyone is not born equal in America or any other nation, skin colour, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, wealth and access to opportunities all play a part in your ability to be successful. Being white and a male is just the start of your privilege. Your ignorance is blatant.

Posted by Kylie Brock on 2018-02-03 04:16:40

two year old temper tantrums are more violent than nazis? Again.. I don't have any reason to respect your opinion because you seem to have some sort of keyboard warrior idea of reality. You are leaning right into crypto fascism by implying that being literally against fascism is somehow questionable. What's more pathetic? Reacting in anger to fascism, or politely listening to nazi rhetoric?

and yes. there is such a thing as verbal violence. I'd suggest you look up the four agreements, but I doubt you'd do much research past listening to nazi bullshit.

People can twist words all they like.. They still mean things. If you are too dense to understand that antifa literally means anti-fascist, and you are too blind to see that they actually walk the walk.. that's on nobody but you.. Go out and find people in black block. go out and look for actual antifa people and talk to them.

Then do the same with actual literal nazi people.

See how far you get..

Until you actually go find these people and talk to them.. and try to understand what they are doing and WHERE their violence is actually directed; you are full of shit. period. full stop. You don't know antifa, you've never talked to them.

Your foundation for a qualified opinion on this subject is completely lacking..

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2018-01-03 17:26:46

Antifa doesn't condone hateful ideology.

It is a hateful ideology.

Antifa doesn't start violence

Yes, it does.

Just because you've never seen their physical violence doesn't mean their verbal violence is any less poisonous.

Verbal "violence"?

I deal with Nazis regularly on Usenet newsgroups such as soc.culture.israel. They regularly call me a gook and a needledick and accuse me of "sucking rectums", merely because I defend what is right and true.

Temper tantrums from two-year olds are more "violent" than the rantings of a bunch of limp-wristed, meth headed, Nazi pedophiles.

And here is where you people give them power. These meth-headed pedophiles blame the Jews®™ for not being able to get that sweet job cleaning toilets in gas stations, instead of maybe putting away the meth and the kiddie porn, and you people react in anger?

That is a lame, pathetic response to lame, pathetic speech.

Posted by Michael Ejercito on 2018-01-03 07:31:14

So tell that to the fascists.. Antifa doesn't condone hateful ideology. Antifa doesn't start violence.. Nor does it hold hate in it for types of people.. Look dude.. It's blatantly obvious you've never met any antifa.. not one.. So your opinion on this subject is 100% lacking in foundation.. You're full of shit because you are ignorant and believe listening to people with hate fueled ideologies is somehow virtuous. This isn't about respect.. The people you believe antifa are disrespecting.. would not have one iota of respect for you.. ever. Just because you've never seen their physical violence doesn't mean their verbal violence is any less poisonous.. In fact.. by allowing nazis to preach their hate allows their poison, their word to propagate.. Your opinion literally allows hate to be renewed.. Fuck nazis. and fuck you for condoning their existence.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2018-01-02 15:38:02

Says the person that literally says "Nazis and Muslims were and are allies". You literally sound like a person that smokes crack and meth.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2018-01-02 15:26:14

No, generally speaking they don't. People tend to understand that anti-fascist views are a good thing so.. you know.. their speaking engagements are only forcibly canceled by.. fascists.. which is a bad thing.. Since that tends to never happen.. We.. That is, anti-fascists.. tend to not worry about it..

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2018-01-02 15:24:38

They have no love for Hollywood celebrities.

Posted by Michael Ejercito on 2018-01-01 21:20:02

How would youn like it if neo-Nazis forcibly canceled a speech by civil rights activists? do these civil rights activists just have to choose their venues more carefully.

Posted by Michael Ejercito on 2018-01-01 21:18:12

Nazis and Muslims were and are allies..... Communism and progressivism are both fascist and socialist..... You guys are all the same!!!! Fools!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2018-01-01 20:11:45

I do not.

But that one disrespects someone else's beliefs does not justify them using violence.

Posted by Michael Ejercito on 2018-01-01 19:19:28

You don't convince other people that you have a right to exist in peace. If they didn't believe it in the first place nothing is going to convince them. All your opinion boils down to is "Let them beat you and call you inhuman because if you don't you are infringing upon their rights."

You seem to literally believe that what's good for the goose, is literally unthinkable for the gander to be subjected to.

I will not stand around listening to racists tell me why they think I should wander off and die in a hole. You can insert something in your dark space if you think people shouldn't defend themselves from racist thoughts and racist fists.

You are literally asking people to be ok with nazis promoting their hate fueled ignorance.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2018-01-01 18:36:20

"Just because this person thinks I'm literal scum.. Doesn't mean I shouldn't listen to them. In fact.. If I defended myself, I would be just like them."

How can you LITERALLY respect the beliefs of somebody that LITERALLY doesn't respect your ability to live in peace and comfort?

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2018-01-01 18:30:25

You just condoned sitting and listening to the ideas of people who literally think that they are better than other people because of their skin color or lineage. After nazis express their ignorant opinions they generally like to follow it up physical racism. You're basically saying.. "Let the nazis talk so they can get to the stuff I actually want them to do.. Like mass murder." That's real fucking reasonable.. for a nazi.. that uses nazi apologia to make other people believe they aren't a card carrying nazi.. In other words.. You're basically a fucking nazi because you think it's reasonable to listen to nazis.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2018-01-01 18:26:01

I just noticed another thing about Johnny's reply. The only people who say things like "This is America after all, the only thing holding you back is YOU!" are those who feel like losers because they know that being white in america is like playing on new game+ and easy mode. If their struggle wasn't actually hard.. what does that mean about their egos? Being "proud" that you're white is still a flash grenade in the darkest night announcing that you're beyond ignorant, apathetic, lack empathy, and lack even the ability to do the most minimal amounts of research or comparative logical deduction.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-12-25 14:36:34

You don’t understand that the lies that fascist use to justify the evil they do are irrelevant. Ignore all their justifications, plans because they are lies designed to gull the feeble minded into supporting their cause. The Nazis, Communists, Muslims and Progressives appear to be opposites but only if you pay attention to their lies. The reality is that the are identical in everything that is significant.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-11 20:23:39

When BLM chants “What do we want? Dead cops!” It’s obvious that they want to murder cops. They are criminals who want the cops to let them rob, rape, pimp, deal, assault and murder in peace.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-11 20:06:57

Lots of big words, but your really don't understand that your evil.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-07 09:17:43

It really doesn't matter what lies people use to justify evil. Denying people's civil rights is evil no matter if it is done by Nazis, Democrats or Antifa.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-05 10:31:52

Every evil group like the Nazis, Communists and Antifa asserts that it's enemies are so bad that they don't deserve liberty or life. You will join them in exterminating your enemies just like your heros.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-05 10:28:52

There is no significant difference between Nazis and Antifa.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-02 19:40:55

LOL! You really are an intellectual.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-02 19:39:47

Being called a racist by you progressive fascists is a badge of honor.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-02 16:40:56

You don't have the right to deny liberty to anyone. You progressive fascists deny liberty to anyone who disagrees with you. That is what Hitler and Stalin did.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-02 16:37:22

"Liberty" for racist fascists does not equal liberty for all. Allowing those who espouse racist ideologies to "protest" unchecked is just as good as saying "We condone your opinions". If you can't see that Nazi Germany was a slippery slope.. You are the fascist.. Everywhere to be found when words are being exchanged.. But people like you are the first to duck out when the words of racists become murders of colored people... you're all talk.. You are unoriginal.. You are just another racist coward that is too scared of even confronting their own racism.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-11-02 02:50:46

Furthermore.. Since it's obvious you have never looked up the definition of "nazi"; I suggest you do that.. Then I invite you.. to sever your own penis, lubricate it generously, and insert it into your anus. Once you have done that.. enjoy yourself.. and piss off racist. :)

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-11-02 02:43:48

I don't give a fuck what you believe he is trying to point out.. what you believe.. or what you believe I am.. or believe.. I believe you are a fucking moronic idiot that uses any excuse they can to use crypto fascism to excuse their obvious racism. The words you write are the racist shit you are regurgitating fed to you by someone just as closed minded and insecure as you are.. Kick rocks conrad.. You're full of shit, and all of it is moot because there is no fucking chance you would ever be on the ground on either side.. kick rocks keyboard intellectual.

Actually I don't listen to the moronic opinions of obvious racists that seek information that proves their own racist bias.. or people who can't tell the difference between their and they are. you're a fucking moron on both points.. kick rocks.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-11-02 02:34:31

The world is divided between those who oppose liberty and this that support it. There is no significant difference between Nazis, Communists, Muslims and Antifa. They all are enemies of liberty ie fascists.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-01 13:28:27

The fact is that it is a crime to use violence to prevent people from exercising their first amendment right. When you do that you become the fascists.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-01 13:24:21

You fight against BLM? Their the racist cop murderers.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-01 13:21:58

He is just pointing out that you Progressive Fascists have become Nazis.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-01 11:25:24

Look in a mirror and resolve to give up you fascist ideology is the first step. Accept that even those whom you disagree with have civil rights that you must respect. When you don’t you become the fascist criminal.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-01 11:22:01

Tyrant Obama the Liar and the Progressives are fascists because they believe that the state trumps civil rights. Does that justify killing them in self defense? Of course not! Only you evil Progressive Fascists think it’s OK to kill those who you disagree with.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-01 10:50:07

Your just like the Nazis and KKK who judge people based on the color of their skin.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-11-01 10:46:26

That's a well reasoned argument! /s

You didn't read what I wrote.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-10-31 22:13:32

Only a completely full of shit ultra maroon could throw that many opposing labels on to someone and actually expect that their words would mean a fucking thing.

Correct.. You are fucking stupid. Therefore you don't have the capacity to understand why white not being an ethnic group is a fucking point...

You can not have pride for something that has no inherent value. Whiteness did not make it possible for people to invent things..

The society that white people created made it possible for white people to claim ownership over all inventions..

Gatherings to celebrate whiteness are racist rallies.. Otherwise they would just be celebrating being german, or french, or english, or swedish..

Go eat a dick.. and then read a book. I guarantee you the book will do you some good. The dick? Well, you wanted to eat it... So you came to me with some bullshit.. Eat up Conrad.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-10-31 21:34:43

Only a Racist Progressive Fascist could worry about whether white is an ethnic group.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-10-31 21:08:58

Everyone in the USA has freedom of speech even if you disagree with them. Attempting to prevent them from exercising their civil rights is fascism and evil.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-10-31 21:02:08

One side had permits to demonstrate and exercise their first amendment rights. The other side didn't have permits and attempted to violated the civil rights of the first group. It was the Progressive Fascists who in the long tradition of the Democratic party of violating civil rights attacked the first group. Furthermore, the nazis/white supremacists have no political power. The Progressive Fascists Antifa are the core of the Democratic party and a real threat to the USA.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-10-31 21:00:10

Black people in Africa were already enslaved. By each other and sold through the Middle East by Arab Traders and then in to Europe and then the Americas. White People didn't invent slavery. Unfortunately history is mostly slavery. Everywhere and by everybody and of everybody. Plenty of caucasian . Thank God we have all grown past that. I'm not excusing the enslavement of Black people in America, I'm just saying it isn't unique and it was everywhere including in Africa already for centuries, millennia actually. History is terrible like that. In fact there are still people enslved all over the world! In many Asian and Arab and yes even a few African countries there are still forms of slavery. India China Pakistan and Russia are the worst i believe.

Posted by Alli Hen on 2017-10-31 20:16:58

No, no its not. You don't get to physically attack people for their beliefs in this country no matter how heinous. F**k that noise. You have not been elected by me to bully people in the street indiscriminately on my behalf--no matter what they think! Otherwise their is no free speech and their is no freedom. I am a total lefty but i understand how precious freedom is and we do not need the thought police running around beating people up in mobs with little to no evidence or due process. No f**k that noise. (I hate how you are making me fight for the right of f***ing nazis, but here it is)... that's not how you protect yourself from nazis--That's what they would do! ...and this rationalization/justification going around about how they are imminently threatening you with their ideas is just total nonsense and has been used throughout history to justify the absolute worst in human beings! You are just justifying your violence, hatred and dehumanization... Like a nazi!

It reminds me of the Hardcore Christian right or Islamist Supremacists, White Supremacists, and other Hate Groups. BTW just because the sign your beating someone up with says "Love not Hate" doesn't mean you are being loving. So twisted and sick. You just cant get around the "treat others as you wish to be treated" idea. Its really the only thing that works. This way brings only destruction and pain. We've been ignoring them for years and their numbers have only dwindled. There are less and less every year. Our side is winning and all all this just dilutes that and actually bring sympathy to their side and publicity for them. This will increase their numbers. So dumb and self indulgent.

Posted by Alli Hen on 2017-10-31 20:04:56

Fuck the nazis and all who ride with them. No "good" people march with nazis, ever.

Posted by 1attitude4u on 2017-09-29 11:59:05

Ok, so you'll rationalize slavery with "personal interest". goodbye.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-29 03:01:49

What 'history of racism' is that- the history that a group of people made sure to look after their own interests first and foremost? What a shocking concept- something that has never been done by any other group in recorded history!

Posted by Anne Rogers on 2017-09-27 22:36:57

Ironic for a "Human" with a gingerbread man avatar to say. Who's hiding? I'm not interested in what you deem me to be either way.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-26 17:11:44

Just man up dude & quit hiding behind masks. You want to go beat up people you disagree with ... fine. Just don't expect me to call you a hero.

Posted by Human on 2017-09-23 22:43:31

That's just like.. Your opinion man.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-23 22:10:58

And how exactly does one convince a racist of something that should be clear to any person above the wisdom of a toddler? There is no proof that white people are any better at anything than any other group. You can't speak truth to people who are convinced that to be be wrong on this subject makes them less than.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-23 22:09:54

Laughable.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-23 22:06:27

I could say the same of the militant racists.. The goal of antifa is to resist and protect those who are protesting things that are dangerous to protest.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-23 22:05:45

Funny thing.. I'm pretty well read.. and I don't remember enough of any Hitler quotes to go dropping them in as justifications for whatever it is.. Seems to me.. That a person using a Hitler quote to justify non-violence.. Is a literal nazi. Congrats.. You did the exact thing that would lead me to believe that your word means absolutely nothing in this subject.

I don't know.. It doesn't seem to work that way.. White people are just as prone to abandoning their children and dropping out of school as any other racial group. Don't act like white people don't do this.. What's stopping white people from keeping their children and staying in school? Oh, yeah.. the same things that keep PoC from doing the same. Lack of jobs, need to support family members while being in school, the list is exhausting.. but let's not delude ourselves into thinking that you'd actually look up the reasons why both black and white people do these things.. As long as you can hold on to your racist sanctimony you feel completely justified in typing out baseless drivel.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-23 21:56:52

Try your rationalizing apologist doublespeak with somebody that doesn't understand the english language. I can see right through it. We aren't dealing with the aftermath of those scenarios. We are dealing with the aftermath of white slave traders that brought african slaves here. Applying trite labels like "ebil whitey" may work for you but I don't buy into dogmatic labels that paint a wide swath. People who are against racism aren't fighting militant hordes. We are dealing with racist apologism one on one. I am half white. This does not preclude me from acknowledging the history of racism white people have created. If you are white and you ignore the history of white racism; that doesn't make me believe white people are "bad", it just means that I think you specifically are in a self serving apologistic denial to the social landscape that white people created when they created "race".

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-23 21:51:09

Because Africans never ever screwed each other over before ebil whitey showed them how, right? Even if that was true it would be racist, implying that blacks were naive children.

Who was selling the slaves at the African ports? Who violently resisted the end of the slave trade? Hint- it wasn't whitey.

Posted by Anne Rogers on 2017-09-23 07:06:01

So blacks would stop abandoning their children and dropping out of school if 'whitey' would stop oppressing them? Right.

Posted by Anne Rogers on 2017-09-23 07:04:16

The justifications that criminals use for violating civil rights are irrelevant. There is no significant difference between the Jim Crow era KKK and antifa.

Posted by ConradCA on 2017-09-15 20:43:41

"We must be very wary of any attempts to excuse or normalize white supremacy."

That's true. We must also be very wary of any attempts to excuse or normalize masked vigilantes beating up speakers and journalists.

Posted by Will Shetterly on 2017-09-14 00:56:21

You're still stupid as fuck.. I'll take unattractive to people I go out of my way to avoid in public over dumber than a box of rocks any day.. :)

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-12 19:00:41

Your opinion is still less valuable than horseshit.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-12 18:58:43

My passion for telling people like you that you're full of shit has nothing to do with my sexuality. I'm sorry for you that I can see your childish deflection for what is is. Suck on your bitter frustration. it's the only action you can get. :)

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-12 18:58:06

Sucks for you that I'm so blessed in life I couldn't give a rats ass about your childish insecure insults. Have fun with your empty angry life.

Obviously you do care what people think of you or you wouldnt have opened your little cocksucker!!! You look like a little mouse that was sexually abused by men....feel sorry for ya dude!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-09-10 11:27:15

im white and i apologize for NOT A FUKIN THING!!!!! Least of all to a mousy looking dude that wants to be a girl!!! LOL

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-09-10 11:24:35

Man or woman dude, you are ugly as fuk!!!! I feel sorry for people like you that have mental disorders until you open up your cocksuckers.....then i dont give two fat shits about you and your disorder! A man is a man even if he is a fag. Same for women, she will always be a woman no matter what she wears or how she "wants" to be viewed by others!!! Your a freak dude....plain and simple so just fade away...

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-09-10 11:20:35

and I could give a fuck what you thought about my looks. Your opinion means shit to me.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 18:26:53

Only transgendered women like me do the literal thing you are doing? You're a fucking ignorant git. Ethnicity is now virtue signalling to the racists? Wow. You're on another level of stupid. Fuck your primadonna bitch ass god. He ain't shit. Hey dumbshit.. I did grow a pair of balls.. trans women pre op have balls. Looks like we have more balls than your whiny little asses.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 18:24:07

Agreed. Thank you for sucking dick slowly.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 17:27:55

So you are saying that antifa should not have the right to free speech then? Have you been on the frontlines of these engagements? I will disagree with you. I have seen them physically protect white supremacists who engaged violently first. "We can disagree and still love each other unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist." - Son of Baldwin. White supremacists routinely deny the humanity of people of color and routinely seek to end people of color's right to exist on a local scale.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 17:26:12

His rights have never been trampled. Having a speaking engagement forcibly canceled does not mean he can not speak his views. It just means he needs to choose his venue more carefully.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 17:20:10

You seem unable to grasp that this is not about any individual person, this is about the rights our constitution grants ALL of us. This has nothing to do with Milo's character, think of him what you will, I am not a fan either but that does not change the fact that he has the right to free speech. Milo was merely used as an example, there are many others such as Ben Shapiro that has had his free speech rights infringed upon by the violent thugs. So you see, I am not trying to rationalize anything, I am simply pointing out that even if you do not like him, do not agree with him or his views, he still has the same free speech rights we ALL have, as he should.

Posted by Relly on 2017-09-08 12:59:17

I did not say they have a national platform... I said no not give them one. As for the armed "fascist" I assume you mean the racist, white supremacist, ect? For one, the police are not protecting fascist, they are protecting the right to free speech. Secondly, the police stood down, they were not protecting anyone, the violence was allowed, even encouraged when they pushed the protesters straight into the crowd of antifa and BLM agitators. We may not like what they have to say or agree with their beliefs but freedom of speech is the cornerstone of our nation, it is a right we ALL have, not just the people we agree with.

Posted by Relly on 2017-09-08 12:49:36

antiFA is the definition of Fascism

Posted by john griswold on 2017-09-08 12:10:20

this article is pure garbage

Posted by john griswold on 2017-09-08 12:09:46

If you're going to do something, you might as well do it right.

Posted by Allen Fitzhugh on 2017-09-08 10:57:09

Ha! Only transgendered snowflake hags from the left try to put people into these little categories like you are doing!!! Virtue signaling has become a foolish little game you stoops.....you are embarrassing to the human race for God sake!! Grow a pair of balls would you???

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-09-08 08:57:03

I cant decide whether you look like a transgender man or a transgender women.....ugly as f*k either way for damn sure!!!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-09-08 08:53:24

Nazis don't attack people when they are marching unopposed.. They attack people when they aren't marching..

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 04:41:02

You think leftists are funny you should take a look at the right.. oh.. wait.. sorry..

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 04:38:59

Nobody has to assassinate Milo's character.. He commited character suicide all by his lonesome.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 04:37:40

Nome Kings.. But to be fair.. you have to find your way to Oz to meet any..

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 04:36:30

Oh no! an egg!

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 04:35:01

To be accurate he is a person that condones pederasty. I've seen the footage too.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 04:34:26

Milo is a pile of festering shit.. and anybody that uses him to rationalize anything is an ignorant buffoon.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 04:31:42

They don't have a national platform. What national platform do you speak of? The one where armed police officers protect armed fascists at every opportunity?

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 04:30:12

You haven't the slightest clue either. It's pretty simple to boil down if you look at it with perspective.. Because of my brown skin I would be a moron to walk unarmed into the middle of a group of white supremacists.. I have no fear of harm done to myself when walking among antifa though. The history you have been reading is biased.. anybody with critical thinking skills and the ability to step outside of their ego can see that.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 04:23:55

What about them? You need to follow that thought to its conclusion.. Poor white people and affluent black people don't negate the history of institutional racism that pits poor white people against black people.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 04:18:48

You're right.. he should slow down and take his time like you do.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 04:15:16

They managed to mind their own damned business for hundreds of years. Those atrocities you listed would never have happened if white people had come in peace and not enslaved africans to begin with. Your white apologism is appalling and self servingly ignorant.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 04:13:43

Nobody's stopping you from being proud of the ethnic group to which you belong. White isn't an ethnic group. It is a manufactured difference used to subjugate other people. White people created whiteness. and to directly answer your question.. no.. I personally would not like to trade places with somebody that believes their whiteness is an ethnicity.. I'll take pride in my german, norwegian, scottish, irish, and latinx heritage instead.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 04:06:02

You speak as though you were a member of a group that had a permit to be somewhere.

Posted by Ezmyrelda Andrade on 2017-09-08 04:00:54

Yeah, I heard about the harm ANTIFA did. They cause massive amounts of property damage, I remember they burned a Limo owned by an immigrant who had a limo service. So they dont really protect people, its more like they just a bunch of Destruction and then

Posted by Doosh Bag on 2017-09-07 14:01:50

Your argument failed completely. Just like Nazi violence, Antifa's violence cannot be justified, and your ridiculous attempt to do so is just moronic.

Posted by Devon Shire on 2017-08-31 02:27:01

"Antifascists often serve as the first line of defense when police and civil society fail to protect marginalized groups from fascist threat."

The idea that minority groups are in need of protection from civil society and the police is a radical, fringe position and is it in accordance with mainstream American sentiments.

Minorities don't need protection by vigilantes.

Posted by SouthOhioGipper on 2017-08-30 10:18:27

"Taking pride in who you are? What did you ever do to become who you are?"

Most people spend their lives developing who they are; their personalities, their ideals, their values. But, most people are also given some basis for "who we are" in our upbringing. We call this heritage. That is; our personal histories, the history of our lineage, and its achievements, traditions, and cultural. Most people value this.

"Did you win your ethnicity in a contest? ...something which is dumb luck."

Thankfully, unlike you, our ancestors didn't reduce heritage to the "dumb luck" of genetic factors. They valued their ancestors' achievements, traditions, history and culture, despite not being directly responsible for them, and despite not being able to pick their ancestors. Because taking pride in those works; and internalizing them as a part of ourselves, who we are, has preserved and further cultivated those works, which is the basis for all human advancement.

Posted by Black Candy on 2017-08-28 12:18:25

Hey look! It's the old "Stalin opposed fascists so he was not so bad" hypothesis.

Recommend fail.

Posted by pcvirginiabeach on 2017-08-27 21:02:39

The dangerous thing is rationalizing the violent behavior of Antifa by creating a straw man, which is exactly what this "professor" does here.

Posted by pcvirginiabeach on 2017-08-27 20:55:09

It is absolutely NOT ok on either side. If you think differently then you are the truly Blind one. AntiFa causes more violence than bro nazis they will even fight if there is no one else to fight. They will throw urine, rocks and other stuff at cops when there is no Nazis to fight... then if one gets sucker punched while trying to attack someone they act as if she was a victim.

Posted by Darkshadow667 on 2017-08-27 13:08:06

It must suck to be you, Allen.

Posted by holyworrier on 2017-08-27 07:46:05

This article justifies violence. All of the AntiFa "activists" are thrillseeking idiots in their twenties, only in it because of their vague left-wing ideals and a lust for property damage and violence. Mostly still living at home, supported by their "capitalist" (read: normal,hard-working) parents, who now have to deal with their little ingrates who fancy a bit of rebellious activism.

Posted by xn0 on 2017-08-27 06:57:09

Why? You suck cock so fast, that no one catches you doing it? Congratulations.

Posted by Allen Fitzhugh on 2017-08-27 01:41:59

You're trying to catch me at something. You won't be able to on this.

Posted by holyworrier on 2017-08-25 20:38:59

All of the above. And white pride. All absurd. Being proud of yourself for something over which you had no control is psychotic. A maladjustment.

If you are marching to say "we have the right to exist here", I understand.

Posted by holyworrier on 2017-08-25 20:36:20

Ah, the 'safe space' argument. Funny how they didn't need to go to his event, but managed to show up just to be offended, then go on a vandalism spree (because banks are EVIL, maaannnn!).

Or am I wrong and the speakers were so loud that everyone on campus was going to be forced to listen regardless?

Posted by Anne Rogers on 2017-08-25 20:03:29

And how many civilians did Stalin kill? Maybe if he hadn't 'purged' his country in the 1930s they would have been better prepared for the war.

Posted by Anne Rogers on 2017-08-25 20:00:30

Depends on the jury. Some would vote not guilty just to nullify a law they find abhorrent.

Posted by Anne Rogers on 2017-08-25 19:59:14

What about the people that attack socialists? That ideology has killed more than Nazism ever did.

Posted by Anne Rogers on 2017-08-25 19:57:55

The American 'Stars and Stripes' means acceptance of slavery, unlawful rebellion, horrific treatment of non-whites, imperialist actions, and a sense of self-importance leading to meddling in other countries' affairs for the gain of the plutocrats.

I presume you oppose it as well?

Posted by Anne Rogers on 2017-08-25 19:56:51

And them came home to stop blacks who were getting 'uppity'. What heroes the 'Greatest Generation' were, eh?

Posted by Anne Rogers on 2017-08-25 19:54:59

Yes, they were so opposed to fascism that they allowed an actual fascist state to exist until 1975.

Posted by Anne Rogers on 2017-08-25 19:53:17

So what did Africa manage to do? Why was it so easy for Britain and France to not only take nearly all of Africa but also to hold onto it for decades? It took WWII killing off large number of white men to give the Africans a chance at 'freedom'- and look what they have accomplished since. Famine, war, disease, corruption, mass murder- and all they can do is blame whites. No sense of personal responsibility.

Posted by Anne Rogers on 2017-08-25 19:51:34

So I presume you are opposed to black pride, gay pride, asian pride, etc. as well?

Posted by Anne Rogers on 2017-08-25 19:48:27

How about those poor blacks living like Appalachian whites do for a week- no running water, electricity, access to medical care (unless you drive for 30 minutes). See if 'being white' is some magic key to the kingdom- especially when coastal liberals mock them at every turn.

Posted by Anne Rogers on 2017-08-25 19:47:44

So violence for thoughtcrimes then?

Posted by Anne Rogers on 2017-08-25 19:45:32

Like most hardcore leftists you odnt know exactly what he civil rights act says. The first statue of the civil rights act makes it a felony to conspire to

deny "the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same"

18 U.S. Code § 241 - Conspiracy against rights

This is because it wasn't just antifa leftists who said ' the Constitution only protects your rights from government' the KKK made the same argument for decades.

IMHO all teh antifa who organized Charlotsville should be arrested and executed because under that same statute if someone dies then the death penalty applies.

"and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death."

It doesn't' matter if the dead is one of our own, one of your target, or some passerby. Its a basic application of the felony murder rule. Conspiring to deny rights to others is a felony. If anyone on any side dies as a result of that conspiracy then the penalty is death.

It is no coincidence the the first statue of the clvi rights act makes such private action also illegal. How does it feel to know you use the same logic and have the same respect for the rights of others as the KKK?

Posted by IskurBlast on 2017-08-24 16:45:16

Whoops, you're too stupid, righty. Goose step away.

Posted by Heath Watts on 2017-08-24 16:05:06

Preventing someone from speaking is not only a violation of their rights its a violation of the civil rights act. You seem to think its ok because the government isn't doing it. The government didn't' run the slave trade either genius.

Posted by IskurBlast on 2017-08-24 15:51:48

I am not advocating that we kill or harm the fascists physically. However, protesting against them and driving them back into their holes where they belong is the most principled thing that Americans can do. For example, in Boston protesters prevented the hate groups from speaking and potentially recruiting more members. The government did not prevent the hate groups from speaking, other citizens did, so it was not a Constitutional speech violation.

Posted by Heath Watts on 2017-08-24 14:18:13

Being against fascism does not mean you throw your own principles out the window. Abandonment of any first principles, and a respect for human rights is the hallmark of fascism.

Posted by IskurBlast on 2017-08-24 13:32:33

By people, you mean one writer who thought that they were equivalent. Of course, we'll never know, because Mussolini and the fascists won the day in Italy until the Allies crushed the cowards and Mussolini's pummeled body hung on meat hooks. The defense of fascism by traitorous right-wing Americans both amazes and disgusts me. If you're not against fascism, then you have serious mental problems.

Posted by Heath Watts on 2017-08-24 13:29:09

Thats right the way to change peoples minds is to only speak to people who agree with you.

Posted by IskurBlast on 2017-08-24 13:28:01

You are expanding the definition of fascist to include Milo because you want to attack him. That is the problem you psycho.

Posted by IskurBlast on 2017-08-24 13:25:02

Yes its been around a long time and even back then people saw anti-fascsits for what they are.

"In Italy there are two types of fascists: fascists and anti-fascists." - Ennio Flaiano

Posted by IskurBlast on 2017-08-24 13:21:54

Uh moron, the equivalency has been drawn since the 1920s.

"In Italy there are two types of fascists: fascists and anti-fascists." - Ennio Flaiano

Posted by IskurBlast on 2017-08-24 13:19:42

I'm not impressed.

Posted by holyworrier on 2017-08-24 07:05:27

So, you are opposed to Gay Pride parades? You are a homophobe.

Posted by Allen Fitzhugh on 2017-08-23 23:08:08

I'd like to trade places with an Asian. They do much better than whites. You are obviously an ideologue and a moron.

Posted by Allen Fitzhugh on 2017-08-23 23:07:02

Real simple. I believe in free speech but not fascism. If I am assaulted by someone opposed to free speech, whether they are antifa or fascists, I am going to shoot them in the face with a shotgun, and anyone else that assaults me.

And I have no fucks to give if that entails one moron, 5 morons or 20 morons.

Posted by Allen Fitzhugh on 2017-08-23 23:04:37

it morally acceptable when certain type of people ack like violent, repressive, hatemongering criminals, but it morally unacceptable when different types of people act similarly, cuz of sum vague, specious horseshit about privilege n supremacy lol. xcellent reasoning muh nigga xD

Posted by Kentigern Konwandi on 2017-08-23 13:50:53

it morally acceptable when certain type of people act like violent, repressive, hatemongering criminals, but it morally unacceptable when different types of people act similarly, cuz of sum vague, specious horseshit about privilege or supremacy lol. xcellent reasoning muh nigga

Posted by Kentigern Konwandi on 2017-08-23 13:48:03

So let's see... these "anti-fascists" indiscriminately destroy property and commit arson, attack the police, gleefully use violence against people who say things they don't like, are too chickenshit to go unmasked while they perpetrate these foul acts of menace and thuggery and yet somehow this is not fascist behaviour.

Go to hell, you fascist apologist. The Nazis, Antifa, and you are all my sworn enemies, and you make me bloody hurl.

Posted by Jack Rawlinson on 2017-08-22 15:21:13

Right...and the Bolsheviks, who killed tens of millions of peasants through mass starvation, political assassinations and forced communism upon the Eastern Bloc, were just a group of peaceful protestors until the fascists forced them to act in mother Russia's best interests.

Posted by W00kie77 on 2017-08-22 13:57:22

The Nazi and Confederate flags each have one meaning, the former symbolizes anti-semitic and pro- Holocaust ideologies, and the latter symbolizes a pro-slavery ideology. Those who think that those flags mean something else have been brainwashed by evil, lying apologists, or are evil, lying apologists themselves. Nazis, White Supremacists, KKK members, and other hate groups are evil and their flags symbolize their evil. Please, stop apologizing for evil people.

Posted by Heath Watts on 2017-08-22 08:29:54

flags do not hurt people, and the thing about symbols is they mean different things to different people

Posted by doozledorf on 2017-08-21 23:12:38

Neo-Nazis and Alt-Right are misplaced on the political spectrum. They are, essentially, Nazis, which are far left, but just right of Communism, which is where the Antifa is located. And, why do they even call themselves Antifa when their ideology is exactly the same as Communists and Fascists? They want to deny people of free speech, same as Fascists. What we have is a bunch of hate groups on the same side of the spectrum that are fighting ech other over power and control. Fascism. Antifa and Neo-Nazis...doesn't matter what they call themselves, they are both equally bad and both on the left. Stanislav Vysotsky has only gotten one side of the story, as his mini biography states. He only spoke to Antifa activist, who obviously are going to paint themselves as morally good people. If that were true, why do they need to hide their all-white faces? This is typical propaganda written by a very Liberal college professor who only sees issues from one side of the fence.

Posted by Denis Wotton on 2017-08-21 22:12:11

Antifa is well known for immolating police officers with moltov coctails. The ONLY difference between the Nazis and Antifa is WHO THEY BURN ALIVE So tell me again how the group that burns people alive just like Nazis and the KKK are soooo much better than them again.

Posted by David Taylor on 2017-08-21 12:03:15

anyone that gets hit in the face with one DUMMY!!!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-21 09:11:04

Symbols have meaning. My Grandfather spent three years of his life stopping the monsters who were spreading the Nazi flag across Europe. Now a bunch of boys in the U.S. are waving it because they aren't everything they want from life. The neo-Nazis, KKK, and white supremacists are blaming their predicament on minorities based on their national origin and color, when they should be blaming the minority of the 1% who control more than 40% of our nation's wealth and our political system.

Posted by Heath Watts on 2017-08-21 08:27:31

you can bring any flag you want....flags don't hurt people

Posted by doozledorf on 2017-08-21 05:50:05

the collective achievement of white people is a marvel to behold, so we are proud

Posted by doozledorf on 2017-08-21 05:49:34

and THAT insistence of judging me by my skin color is all the proof i need that i was right......you are putting white people down so this is why we have to march

Posted by doozledorf on 2017-08-21 05:47:56

its also what stalin did sooooooo you should have used the word totalitarians, antifa and the nazi are both totalitarians

Posted by doozledorf on 2017-08-21 05:45:16

where did you get that from? 37 million russians died and its all because the communists don't value individual lives at all.....they sent unarmed men rushing at tanks and would shoot their own men if they retreated.

Posted by doozledorf on 2017-08-21 05:44:46

an egg can and does carry diseases, that is biological warfare

Posted by doozledorf on 2017-08-21 05:42:37

milo made one joke about pedophilia, nothing wrong with that at all....you are just trying to perform character assassination because you are not smart enough to defeat his arguments

also pedophiles aren't fascists but you just used that as an excuse as to why antifa was at berkley.....so now they are antifapedo?

Posted by doozledorf on 2017-08-21 05:41:14

really? because antifa showed up in 2011 to do damage to the occupy wallstreet protests and there were no fascists there......antifa CAUSED the rise in naziism.....they are not fighting it

Posted by doozledorf on 2017-08-21 05:39:42

they had a permit to be in a park.....they did not have a permit to block the march down the street.....so they were in the wrong. its that simple

Posted by doozledorf on 2017-08-21 05:38:16

Yeah, shooting someone for that is a good way to get charged with murder 2.

Posted by David Downs on 2017-08-21 00:51:54

an egg is a dangerous weapon? to what part of the population?

Posted by David Downs on 2017-08-21 00:51:34

Antifa had 2 permits, as a matter of fact.

Posted by zapster on 2017-08-20 21:39:35

This reporter is an idiot and is an example of the silly identity politics of our politically correct snowflakes on campus and in the media who love a good protest and a fight.

Racism is abhorrent on all sides--whether you are a white supremacist, and Islamic supremacist, or a black supremacist.

It is also perfectly acceptable--and necessary--to discuss whether violence is an acceptable means of social change. Such Alt-Right figures as Martin Luther King and Gandhi found that violence was never the best policy.

However, today's intolerant Alt-Left journalists and activists feel that the ends justifies the means. According to them, you have the right to commit any crime, any atrocity to silence or stop those who disagree with you politically in any way.

There is also the question of whether the Alt-Left's insistence on engaging the Alt-Right at every opportunity does not simply play into the latter's hands and give them far more attention than they deserve or would have otherwise received.

The Alt-Left has just been dying to find a reason to stop free speech once and for all. Once they're done silencing the Alt-Right, it won't end there but will be used to censor anyone who disagrees with the pc thought police in any way.

Posted by Mindnumbing on 2017-08-20 12:21:22

Curious why they didn't rise up and do this when Clinton or Obummer were in office.

Posted by Puck Shack on 2017-08-20 09:51:37

Part of the Alinsky playbook, leftists are hilarious.

Posted by Puck Shack on 2017-08-20 09:50:06

Your website, should include, with your "WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL..." for only those that agree with us. Just stumbled upon the following article, "The New Civil War" on the American Thinker website, the following, and think they nailed it down correctly.

"Like their Nazi and Communist forefathers, today’s Democrat leaders are comfortable sending swarms of Brownshirts out to beat into submission anyone who stands between them and power.

"While cowardly leftist leaders are trying to portray themselves as fighting Hitler they are really fighting anyone they don’t agree with. Remember that some Democrats said that Rep. Steve Scalise had it coming since he opposed gun control and that Democrats have been silent when left-wing violence was used to prevent Republicans marching in a parade in Portland."

All through history, communists and fascists have the same mode of operation. If they can't deceive the population into going along with them, they revert to mob rule and terrorizing through the use of force. Which is exactly, what ANTIFA is all about... their thugs on the ground.

Posted by asmith1234 on 2017-08-20 04:46:58

ANTIFA are fascists. The criminal violence that they have inflicted on the public is exactly how fascists have behaved in history. If it walks like a duck.... These fascist thugs, (ANTIFA) are exactly what they claim to be against. The author wrote: "Antifa come to understand that threat because their personal identities, as well as their political activism, are targeted by fascist violence." Does the author of this article think people are blind to the violence perpetrated by ANTIFA and live under a rock? Fact is, ANTIFA, are the aggressors and the public isn't as stupid as you seem to assume them to be.

Posted by asmith1234 on 2017-08-20 04:22:50

By your logic, the pretty girls should be raped with NO consequences to the raper. When one set of humans come to a protest to stop the other group, they should be found at fault the violence that occurs, after all they came to agitate, to cause upsets, to start fights. I don't believe YOU can't see that, which indicates You are being paid to lie. I realize you have your reasons why ,"Lying" is OK, You have built walls to hide the fact You lie but that was not your intention when You began writing,...... I hope you can 'come to your senses'.

Posted by Blucross on 2017-08-19 15:05:06

What ever that means....you big walrus lookin dude!!! LOL

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-19 12:37:02

Go butt a stump, JJ.

Posted by holyworrier on 2017-08-19 12:13:57

FIRST, YOU DO NOT KNOW MY ETHNICITY! YOU DO NOT KNOW MY LEGAL STATUS. NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT "ACHIEVEMENTS" , DID I?

ARE YOU SAYING THAT BLACK OR BROWN PEOPLE CAN NOT BE PROUD OF WHO THEY ARE AS GODS CREATURES? SHOULD A BLACK PERSON NOT BE ABLE TO FEEL AS PROUD AS A WHITE PERSON AS ONE OF GODS CREATIONS? WE ARE ALL THE SAME IN GODS EYE....JUST NOT YOURS APPARENTLY!!!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-19 11:46:38

Please educate me about the beautiful history of Nazism and the Confederacy, pubplatform. Only stupid people would parade around with a flag honoring either of those monstrous regimes. Actually, the antifa, as your right-wingers call them, has been around for a long time in both the U.S. and Europe. After the lessons of WW II, many people became less enamored with fascism than you seem to be. It seems when you were calling me stupid, you might have been looking in your mirror. Remember, those brown things floating in your toilet are not candy bars or party favors. Good luck and know that progressives have your back. We will continue to pay for you, regardless of how useless you are, because we know that you are mentally unfit to survive.

Posted by Heath Watts on 2017-08-19 09:46:23

No, it's not illegal, it's just stupid.

Posted by Heath Watts on 2017-08-19 09:41:34

Superior.... Yes!!!!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-19 00:22:21

LOL. I see what kind of mind I'm dealing with here...

Posted by holyworrier on 2017-08-18 23:47:06

I can see how you might not take pride in who you are....

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-18 23:21:42

Do you understand how life works? Of course there are going to be people with disadvantages, just be happy for what you have and make the best of it. Moping around and complaining about stuff is not going to make you succeed in something. There are people that come from the hardest of places that succeed, and it's because they make the right decisions to get out of their rough situation. Then their kids who are born in a good stage make a bunch of wrong decisions and ruin it for them. In other words, where you come from doesn't choose how likely you are to achieve things, it can help, but it's not the end all be all. I am not going to say that hard work achieves all, because it doesn't, but making the right decisions to get yourself out of a situation is definitely possible.

Posted by Jhon Lewis on 2017-08-18 23:14:35

heath watts, can you be more brainwashed? nazi flags no, confederate flags - only brainless morons without any concept of history have a problem with that, looking for a fight? - you are describing ANTIFA which has been doing that for more than a year now.... you haven't got the slightest clue on whats going on, how embarrassing, why comment

unbelievably ignorant post, you don't even have the intelligence to think critically, keep siting infront of the idiot box sucking every conspiracy notion as fact... perfect combination for someone incapable of verifing a simple claim let alone an entire narrative

my god, please don't procreate

Posted by pubplatform on 2017-08-18 22:35:30

Taking pride in who you are? What did you ever do to become who you are? Did you win your ethnicity in a contest? Did you win your US citizenship? It is revolting when someone takes pride in something that they regard as an achievement, which is really dumb luck.

Posted by holyworrier on 2017-08-18 22:18:15

It's amazing that this is such a hard concept to grasp.

Posted by Ryan Delpew on 2017-08-18 18:43:21

Clearly you do not understand the concept of free speech. It doesn't matter if you don't like the message.

Posted by Ryan Delpew on 2017-08-18 18:40:35

Last time I checked it's not illegal to possess any of those items.

Posted by Ryan Delpew on 2017-08-18 18:38:29

Another liberal professor who would not be employed if he doesn't tow the liberal line. Please stop. Antifa has shown up to conservative gatherings where not one of those persons had a weapon. Their goal? Kill the first amendment - for all save themselves.

Posted by KGreenland on 2017-08-18 14:58:50

Why did the right wingers bring Nazi flags, Confederate battle flags, and weapons to a "peaceful protest", James Siewert? It seems that they were looking for a fight.

Posted by Heath Watts on 2017-08-18 14:09:22

Only brain-dead idiots without even a basic knowledge of history can claim that "Antifas" are NOT Fascists!

Posted by Thomas The Paine on 2017-08-18 13:29:48

Unfortunately the victim/oppressor narrative is all leftists understand or have left to spur their proposed overthrow of current systems. Feminists are the same, it's simply a core tenet of their worldview. They're just incompetent Marxists that don't understand how they let Identity Politics undermine their actual class struggle.

Posted by Puck Shack on 2017-08-18 12:07:47

NO THEY DON'T.

Posted by David Mcdanger on 2017-08-17 21:32:38

Sounds like what Obama tried to do.

Posted by David Mcdanger on 2017-08-17 21:30:08

Really????? the nazi's have been marching and holding rallies in this country for at least the last 40 years, yet not a single person gets attacked until antifa shows up. Usually they march and spout their crap then go home.

Posted by David Mcdanger on 2017-08-17 21:28:37

or shot

Posted by David Mcdanger on 2017-08-17 21:18:33

BRAVO, WELL PUT, JOHNNY.

Posted by David Mcdanger on 2017-08-17 21:14:58

NO IT IS NOT Taken to it's logical conclusion, Killing abortion doctors is justified because it stops them from murdering. Is that "okay on balance", moron?????

Posted by David Mcdanger on 2017-08-17 21:12:57

BLM is nothing but a bunch of sociopaths that want a group of people excused for their crimes.

Posted by Michael Ejercito on 2017-08-17 21:10:41

If the nazi's were the ones starting violence, WHY WAS THERE NO VIOLENCE ON FRIDAY? They marched on Friday, just as they have been marching and holding rallies for at least the last 40 years, yet there has been no violence until the violent antifa was paid to show up and start it.

Posted by David Mcdanger on 2017-08-17 21:08:55

Ever heard the old joke, "If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have? Four - because no matter what you call it, a tail isn't a leg."

Antifa (and this professor) can call the group anti-fascists, but they're still fascists.

Posted by Gellieman on 2017-08-17 14:15:38

Mechanical failure has ZERO to do with anyone on the ground...they were monitoring the event. Loss of life for any reason is unfortunate but we muddy the waters while associating those deaths with anything that was done by either side at this event.

Thats their game! Shut down the discussion and free exchange of ideas by calling people "Nazi"! Because who in their right mind would try to have a discussion with a Nazi??? You end the discussion on MORAL grounds when you call them a Nazi then you dont have to defend your BOGUS position on the facts. They can not defend logically their positions and are made to look foolish in the company of others and have sank to the level of personal attack so they dont ever have to defend their ideas....SMH

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-17 12:19:38

WOW! Big f'ing deal!!!!! They have every right to do so. If you disagree with what they are saying then convince them they are wrong and you are right. DONT lay a hand on them tho....thats when YOU are WRONG and they are right!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-17 12:08:31

With the 1st amendment. Violence is punishable under the law. There is NOTHING you can do about free speech, either ignore them or tell them YOUR opinion....anything else is criminal and you become what you are trying to defend against.

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-17 12:00:03

What about the guy that smashed over the head with a bicycle lock??? That guy as it turns out was a teacher at the school.....SMH

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-17 11:55:22

If you heard the dog whistle then what does that make YOU!??

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-17 11:53:01

...And when they assault people they should go to jail and throw away the key! Protesting and violence are two very different things!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-17 11:52:10

How exactly did the police officers deaths ahve ONE FU**ing thing to do with anyone on the ground Nazi or antifa??? Thats just FAKE NEWS and you should be ashamed of yourself for spreading those kinds of lies!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-17 11:50:13

If they violated the perimeters of the language in the permit then the governing body can punish them under the purview of the law! It is NOT up to the Antifa to meter that punishment....we are a nation of laws and when we do not follow the laws then there is Anarchy.

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-17 11:48:06

I disagree, He chose Berkley because it is supposedly the birthplace of free speech! During the sixties these same teachers were students at Berkley and they were protesting the status quo while championing the first amendment that they now trample over as they refuse to allow Milo HIS chance to speak. Why not DEBATE him and let fair minds decide what to believe???? Because the left has NO way of persuading young minds with their SHITTY ideas and they know it. The only way to keep hold of the impressionable minds is by NOT letting them hear differing opinions!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-17 11:43:42

Thats what fascists do, they take away your guns and ability to defend yourself and then round you up at their leisure....that is EXACTLY what hitler did!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-17 11:33:01

The two officers killed were working at the rally so you can't say it had "ZERO" to do with the rally.. granted they were not killed by anyone at the rally but you can't say it was not connected.

Posted by Relly on 2017-08-17 11:32:47

Throw eggs at anyone and that is assault with a dangerous weapon and you will be jailed, as you should be.....

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-17 11:29:51

Attack people for exercising their rights and go to jail dumbass! 1st amendment allows them to say what they want just like you. Raise a hand to them and you go to jail idiot....thats the way the lawful society works! YOU dont get to do ANYTHING about speech you dont agree with other than state your opinion....that is it!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-17 11:28:18

One person dead, dipshit! Two officers in a helicopter had ZERO to do with it....but keep spreading your FAKE NEWS dummy!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-17 11:25:02

Anyone who attacks anyone that is peacefully protesting should be put in jail for a month or so to think about HOW FUKING STUPID THEY ARE!!!!!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-17 11:23:35

would you like to trade with a white person for a week? What is wrong with taking pride in who you are and not worrying about what other people have and go get what you want in this life! This is America after all, the only thing holding you back is YOU!

Posted by JOHNNY J on 2017-08-17 11:21:49

Antifa = Nazis.

“The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence.”~ Adolf Hitler

Posted by Human on 2017-08-17 11:04:58

Antifa has attacked innocents many times. Get your facts straight. "attacking innocent bystanders and killing/injuring with a motor vehicle, is a documented Right Wing tactic,"? Post your proof of you are a liar.

Posted by Liberal Devastater on 2017-08-17 09:49:46

I would assume then that protesters fighting against antifa fascists is acceptable, also?

Posted by Liberal Devastater on 2017-08-17 09:46:03

Nazis are not people whose aims are peaceful, it is the creation of an ethnostate that is built on human sacrifice of people they deem inferior. They dream of the death of those who are different to them. There is no respect nor mercy appropriated to these abominable views.

that, of course, does not translate to justifying violence merely because you do not respect their beliefs.

Posted by Michael Ejercito on 2017-08-17 00:31:00

The flaw in the “both sides” position is that the violent protest actions of antifa are equivalent to the violent actions of white supremacists. A brief examination of the two movements’ approaches to violence points to the fallacy of comparing the two.

The same ethics regarding the use of violence apply to both sides equally.

It would be a mischaracterization to claim that antifa oppose nonviolence. Instead, it is more accurate to say that antifa often justifiably view nonviolence as ineffective against a movement that is violent at its core, and participants who seem to lack any semblance of a conscience. This is the essence of antifascist use of violence.

That is beside the point. Violence is only justified to defend against the unjust use of violence.

Yes, lay a smack down on neo-Nazis and sand Nazis who are engaged in unjust violence. But attack those among them who are peacefully protesting and they may legally use violence to defend themselves against you.

Posted by Michael Ejercito on 2017-08-17 00:29:46

"Attack innocent bystanders? No."

Well I suppose it depends on your definition "innocent bystander" but there's plenty of video and photo evidence available online if only you were open-minded enough to look. Most, including you evidently, are not even wiling to prove to themselves they're wrong - or right as the case may be.

Posted by RetREMF on 2017-08-16 21:18:05

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. You could look for yourself but are afraid of finding what you don't want to.

Doesn't take long to find incidences of Black bloc violence from Seattle, to NY to Berkeley, to D.C. to Sacramento, Oakland, and elsewhere directed at anyone, many who aren't fascist. Just one of hundreds of images come to mind. Antifa torching the limo of some hard-working guy, NOT A FASCIST. Just an average Joe.

Antifa is short for anti-fascist. And although fascist comes from a political movement that began in Italy following the First World War,the word fascist has been used more broadly since then to describe INTOLERANT and OPPRESSIVE behavior.

Well geeeeeeee, that's equally descriptive of antifa. Intolerant and oppressive of any opposing point of view. Believe as they believe or else.

Posted by RetREMF on 2017-08-16 21:10:35

The Left will always rationalize, i.e. justify, their violence as the professor does here.

A simple 5 minute search and review of other material refutes this guy's false -equivalency assertion which requires after all a SUBJECTIVE evaluation. His bias is showing.

Posted by RetREMF on 2017-08-16 21:01:51

They attacked Trump Supporters at every Trump Rally

Posted by Mark Hayward on 2017-08-16 20:19:17

No, you have to keep things in perspective. You're confusing the tactics between the two sides. Did the "antifa", as you call them, and the BLM protesters torch police cars? Yes. Attack local businesses? Yes. Attack innocent bystanders? No. The last one, attacking innocent bystanders and killing/injuring with a motor vehicle, is a documented Right Wing tactic, which is why the Charlottesville event became a big deal. I may be wrong, but I have not seen "attacks" on civilians coming from BLM protests.

Posted by earthling01 on 2017-08-16 20:10:25

You do realize there are conservative students at Berkeley right? Should their views not also be represented at their own school? Or are they not allowed views of their own? BTW... Milo did not invite himself there, he was invited by the conservative group on campus and he is not involved in hate speech. Now to answer your question... NO, the other students there do not have the right deny others the right to free speech just in case they might be offended by hearing a different viewpoint. They need to grow the hell up and act like adults, the real world is full of REAL things to be offended about. How is treating them like 5 year olds that need to be shielded from naughty words going to prepare them for the real world? Instead of our colleges turning out confidant adults ready for the work force now, they are turning out adult babies that can't handle someone saying anything they disagree with...

Posted by Relly on 2017-08-16 19:40:40

Thank you, Sammy!

Posted by earthling01 on 2017-08-16 19:21:23

The Berkeley example is well publicized, but it is clear the Milo Y had specifically chosen Berkeley to get in the faces of progressive college kids. Had he chosen another location, more rural and conservative, people wouldn't have bothered with him.While I respect the right of free speech for anyone (including idiots), there is no need to fly across the country to insult those of opposing viewpoints, as Milo did. Don't Berkeley students ALSO have the right to live free of offensive hate speech and Right Wing propaganda inside of their own community?

Posted by earthling01 on 2017-08-16 19:19:54

"[The protesters included...] white people who were just tired of "white guilt" and "white privilege" holding them down"Spoken like a true ethnocentrist. Obviously you are Caucasian.

Maybe try exchanging your ethnicity (and family, culture, neighborhood, etc.) with someone of color for a week and see if you still feel "held down" for being white.

Posted by earthling01 on 2017-08-16 19:12:23

Doozledorf, I don't believe their permit allowed the fascists to kill (and injure) counter-protesters. Having a permit is quite irrelevant and is a feeble attempt to justify violence.By making excuses for the actions of those protesters, you are condoning the needless deaths they caused, including two police officers.Freedom of speech is a right to those who know the difference between speech and violent aggression. When a group's "speech" propagates hate and incites violence, it has lost its right to free speech.

The White Supremacists have proven they are not capable of containing their message to just speech. I suggest there will be fewer permits issued to such groups in the future, which is a consequence of their own behavior.

Posted by earthling01 on 2017-08-16 19:07:53

"they are actually fascists in disguise." They hid their fascist faces in masks, perhaps; they were unable to disguise their fascist acts.

Posted by leberlenoloc on 2017-08-16 17:53:14

Hiring a hitman is action beyond speech; moreover, it is an illegal act as far as I know. If I hire a hitman who kills the target, and it is revealed in a duly authorized court that I did so, then the judicial and penal systems will deal with me.

Vera, your identifying Hitler with nothing more than a common purveyor of a common mob murder is to so misrepresent the horrors he perpetrated on Europeans the twelve years he sucked up all the oxygen is to minimize what he did.

If Hitler models for the NewNazis, what figure do the Antifas hold up to remind them who they want to grow up to be?

Posted by leberlenoloc on 2017-08-16 17:45:47

Here, let me attempt this lift: the Fallacy of Composition?

Posted by leberlenoloc on 2017-08-16 17:22:31

If fascists are the only ones fitted to hear Mr. Trump's signal, then how do you know there even was a signal?

Posted by leberlenoloc on 2017-08-16 17:20:40

The context, the set of circumstances that allowed the socialist elements to rise to total political power is absent.

There has been no worldwide catastrophe akin to WWI which left Germany and its army intact and very angry; there has been no worldwide economic depression or galloping inflation to erode standards of living on a large scale; the new Nazis have nothing remotely similar to the philosophical underpinnings and the organizational structure the Hitler and Mussolini enjoyed.

True brownshirts/blackshirts opposed to the pansy display I saw Saturday would have ground them into the concrete.

When these semi-Nazis get strong enough to unite and assemble their current disparate membership (of ~100,000, I think I read.), on the outskirts of Washington, DC, or mass, heavily armed in front of a state capitol with a view to physically remove the elected legislators, I'll take them seriously.

Posted by leberlenoloc on 2017-08-16 17:17:08

unfortunately, we should be more cautions to normalize violence. some on the far left are starting to adopt the very dangerous, violent and authoritarian attitudes of these white supremacists. Advocating for violence. Punching, killing, harassment, doxxing, censorship and suppression. Doing that only leads to escalation of violence, and deeper division. You can't fight hate by becoming what you hate. You look at people like Martin Luther King, that strongly argued against the use of violence. He did that at one of the most horrific times in our countries history. Even when people where being beaten and killed he still advocated against violence. He did so much good without the use of violence. Even at the cost of his own life. These far left extremists need take a good look at his works and words before they drive this country into another civil war. Which in the end will not benefit anyone.

Martin Luther King Jr:

Hate begets hate; violence begets violence; toughness begets a greater toughness. We must meet the forces of hate with the power of love... Our aim must never be to defeat or humiliate the white man, but to win his friendship and understanding.[6]

"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate.

Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Posted by Sandra R on 2017-08-16 15:56:46

Fascist- "Genocide would solve a lot of our social problems. Let's do it!"Anti-Fascist - "No, you may not do that"BLM - "Please stop shooting us"

waving guns and torches, threatening to and sometimes actually killing people, is not protected speech. If it was, hiring a hitman would be protected speech. Hitler never physically harmed a single Jew, he did it all through "speech." People whose stated goal is mass murder cannot be allowed to mobilize. It's bizarre that there would be any confusion about this at all in america.

Posted by Vera on 2017-08-16 15:50:50

I misread your first post. My bad. I am in agreeance with you. Extremism is bad regardless of side. I find that if you want rational discussions with people of opposing viewpoints, the closer to moderate both parties are, the less useless confrontation is postured. Granted, this is in my own personal experience, but living in Eastern (conservative) Washington I find that we have a good balance of ideologies. On the other hand, I drive 25 miles east into Idaho and things go way downhill.

Posted by LucidCharade on 2017-08-16 15:06:20

Uh, no, I never said anything like that. The scum in Charlottesville are scum. The vast majority of conservatives are not like that. That's who I'm talking about, and I see far too many "antifa" types trying to brand anyone slightly to the right of them as Nazis. Nazis are Nazis, the vast majority of conservatives are not Nazis.

Posted by BenTheGuy on 2017-08-16 14:45:11

True, it was closer to 420,000 American lives. On he other hand, about 34 million Russians were killed., over 1/2 of which were civilians. That's the really dangerous thing about Nazis in my opinion. They have a tendency to target those who are unarmed and incapable of fighting back.

Posted by LucidCharade on 2017-08-16 14:44:24

The US lost fewer than a half million lives total, civilian and military, in all theaters of war during WWII.

Posted by leberlenoloc on 2017-08-16 14:39:38

Ironically, fascist organization and anarchism are directly opposing viewpoints. You can't be in favor of both because one is strict order and regulation while the other is complete lawlessness and freedom. Calling them a 'facist anarchistic organisation' is an oxymoron.

Posted by LucidCharade on 2017-08-16 14:37:36

Stalin. Now there was a true American! Antifas have absolutely no authority, legal or moral, to act as vigilante-style buffers between the supremacists, white or otherwise, and the object of their expressing their opinions through a protest march. For them to do so puts them in an antagonistic position to the Rule of Law. Their acts, therefore, were neither legal nor moral.

Posted by leberlenoloc on 2017-08-16 14:36:07

By your logic, neither does flying swastikas, doing Nazi chants, or blatant anti-semitism. People definitely go overboard calling people nazis that aren't, but these guys were literally showing off their swastika tattoos to each other.

Posted by LucidCharade on 2017-08-16 14:35:09

Nazi: "Those people disagree with me!" *stomps on gas pedal*

Yup, picture of reason these guys. xD

Posted by LucidCharade on 2017-08-16 14:32:52

Those people also had a permit for 400 people and drove people from all over the country and Canada to have 2000 people. That's not following your permit so therefor that argument is invalid.

Posted by LucidCharade on 2017-08-16 14:28:34

This was not a war, it was a protest. Let's keep this in perspective. Listen, no one in their right mind, including the millions of Trump supporters, are pro Nazi. Nazi's and white supremacists are vile trash. However, Antifa has proven over and over again that they will show up and attack innocent bystanders, provoke the protesters, torch police cars, loot businesses, ... I could go on and on. Let's look at the whole picture here. Both groups are total sh*t eaters. But to try and justify Antifa's existence is pure hypocrisy.

Posted by surfpipe on 2017-08-16 14:02:08

A lot of Antifa ARE fascists. Are Nazi's bad? Absolutely! Were the white supremacists in Charlottesville bad people? Yes! However, if you decide that everyone that disagrees with you is a racist Nazi who should be beaten, then you are also a fascist. Being conservative doesn't make someone a Nazi.

Posted by BenTheGuy on 2017-08-16 09:58:20

The old left right paradigm creates too much confusion and needs to be changed. All three hate groups that were active in Charlottesville are all anti-freedom. As Americans we need to start looking at political groups and see if they restrict our freedoms and liberties, or if they enhance, advance and protect our freedoms and liberty. None of these groups, alt-right, BLM, and ANTIFA can claim to protect and advance freedom and liberty. You can't protect freedom for one group by taking freedom away from another group.

Posted by Dan Clements on 2017-08-16 08:49:03

Well...I'm not retarded. I suspect you aren't either. So let's leave that aside.

But look suppose I'm willing to grant the point that "using violence against a peaceful protest is wrong". Maybe I'd be willing to grant that. The question to me is - is it morally equivalent to being a Nazi or a member of the KKK or knowingly marching with these people? I think while it may not be great, punching a Nazi is not morally equivalent AT ALL to being a Nazi.

Put it this way: suppose a group of 1000 American muslims got a permit and assembled peacefully but many were armed. Now a significant portion - say 2 or 3 hundred specifically chanted in support of ISIS and in favor of establishing a worldwide caliphate and an Islamic theocracy. ISIS flags are being proudly displayed. The remaining 8 - 7 hundred do not denounce these ISIS supporters appear proud to march along side them. But its all peaceful! Now imagine that some counter protesters punch some of the muslims, and attempt to burn their ISIS flags. Maybe the counter protesters even throw bags of piss or something. Finally an ISIS supporter drives his car through the counter protesters killing one PEACEFUL counter protester and injuring 19 others.

What should the upshot of the story be - how should the media be reporting it? Should it be a story about how a terrorist organizations are openly gathering, expressing hateful ideology, and ultimately killing innocent Americans on American soil? Or should it be a story about how some counter protesters who oppose ISIS punched some people?

Look if you earnestly think about this situation and say "yeah you know the real problem were the people that punched the ISIS supporters and those that marched with them" - then at least you aren't a hypocrite. That's not how I would react. My reaction would be "Holy shit - terrorists gathering in American and advocating (PEACEFULLY!) for genocide." But that's just me.

Posted by James Siewert on 2017-08-16 07:03:59

Whether we will say so or not, I think most of us on the left realize that not every single person in the rally was a card carrying member of the American Nazi Party or the Ku Klux Klan. But looking at straight footage its a not like there was just one Nazi dude who got ejected - big crowds of people were shouting Blood and Soil, and the tiki torches were a clear reference to Klan gatherings. So if you WERN'T part of these groups you had to know that you were making common cause with them. And I think most of us are surprised at the amount of people who might look over at a Nazi flag and say "I don't mind standing next to that guy, and chanting the same things!"

Maybe you will say "but you guys will be at a protest and a few people will chant about dead cops, and you will look the other way." That may appear true - although if you pull back the curtain I think you will find a lot people on the left telling these people to cut it out. But the BLM and antifa official platforms don't advocate for killing cops, whereas Nazis and the KKK's OFFICIAL POSITION is advocacy for an ethnically homogeneous state. And - I don't expect you to agree with this part at all, but I'll say it anyway - with BLM we're talking about groups that has been historically and presently at a disadvantage - their antipathy to policing has a lot to do with the deeply flawed relationship they have had with the police in their communities.

Finally - re: privilege: this is just how I see and other people on the left may disagree - having privilege is by no means a black and white rule (no pun intended) - it's just a tendency. Like men tend to be taller than women. Does that mean that every man is taller than every woman? No - not at all. Saying that white privilege exists isn't necessarily a claim about YOU and YOUR FAMILY - its a claim about how things tend to be in culture. People of color TEND to have it worse in the country - they TEND to be poorer, be in less powerful positions, and be more at risk for violence. Doesn't mean that some rich black people aren't on balance more privileged than some poor white people. Just means that black people tend to have it worse. Unless you think that this fact is due to inherent physical differences between races (which the Nazis and the KKK historically have against all evidence), it is a socially contingent fact, and if you regard a society where being a member of a demographic DOESN'T tend to put you at a disadvantage as an inherent good you have a moral obligation to fight against that fact.

Anyway - you obviously probably won't agree - I think we are in the place in this country where agreement on anything is a pipe dream. But I hope you will at least see that there are reasonable counter arguments to what you are saying, and that there a lot of thoughtful people on the left who care about reasonable and rational discourse.

Posted by James Siewert on 2017-08-16 06:34:02

using violence against a peaceful protest is wrong, how fucking retarded are you

Posted by pubplatform on 2017-08-16 04:08:03

Nazi: "Our end-goal is to kill people">Centrist patiently sits and waits his turn with his thumb up his a$$

Posted by John G. on 2017-08-16 02:14:39

I doubt most have even heard of Antifa until Trump began dog-whistling fascists.

Posted by John G. on 2017-08-16 02:12:59

Milo was talking about 13 year olds. They can't legally consent. The Right just loves their Uncle Toms.

Posted by John G. on 2017-08-16 02:11:23

Milo is a (self hating gay) kapo.

Posted by John G. on 2017-08-16 02:07:44

>doesn't understand the concept of privilege>proceeds to march alongside Neo-Nazis and question reporters if they're Jews.

Which logical fallacy do you think you just made? I'll give you the option to work it out then you can get back to me. :-)

Posted by Sagan on 2017-08-15 23:00:01

This is like an abuser shouting at his victim "look at what you made me do".

Sick, twisted logic. No, antifa and anyone who is repulsed by fascism has a right to counter-protest and make your ilk feel uncomfortable, and unwanted.

Posted by Leopold Castile on 2017-08-15 22:59:52

Which person of which group ran over and murdered an innocent person and injured others?

I'll wait.

Posted by Leopold Castile on 2017-08-15 22:58:26

>right now the so called nazi are being more reasonable than you

Nazi apologia. Wow. Your skepticism on whether they are Neo-Nazis or not is confusing since they were carrying swastikas, weapons, and doing Nazi salutes screaming "blood and soil", confusing up until the point I realise that you are trying to diminish their repugnant behavior because you sympathize with them.

Nazis are not people whose aims are peaceful, it is the creation of an ethnostate that is built on human sacrifice of people they deem inferior. They dream of the death of those who are different to them. There is no respect nor mercy appropriated to these abominable views.

Posted by Leopold Castile on 2017-08-15 22:55:58

the appropriate response to other people's ideas is to sit and listen and wait your turn

right now the so called nazi are being more reasonable than you

Posted by doozledorf on 2017-08-15 22:28:43

or he is smart enough not to grasp it.....the far right would not even be a thing right now if not for antifa

Posted by doozledorf on 2017-08-15 22:27:59

they will just expand the definition of fascist to include something else they want to attack....which is what they did

Posted by doozledorf on 2017-08-15 22:27:01

no sammy, the people who respect the rights and free speech of others are patriots

the "nazi" had a permit to protest....antifa did not

Posted by doozledorf on 2017-08-15 22:25:36

that's what the media told you they were about. the rally included many people from many different branches of the right, including white people who were just tired of "white guilt" and "white privilege" holding them down

Posted by doozledorf on 2017-08-15 22:24:58

To get one thing clear, I am not a fan of Milo but I do not believe he is a pedophile. When that story came out, I looked into it and saw what he actually said without it being taken out of context, he was the victim of a pedophile, he has also made it very clear he finds pedophiles abhorrent... What he did say was that he did not see anything wrong with a younger person at the age of LEGAL CONSENT to date older men.. personally I disagree with him but that does not make him a pedophile. Either way... that does not make him a fascist.

Posted by Relly on 2017-08-15 20:00:15

Well as you can see from their members or sympathizers responding here, either these simple concepts are too complex for them to grasp, or they simply don't care. It's like in their small minds, the hate of the racist, homophobe, etc, etc, etc, is no worse and just as justified as the loathing their hate and accompanying behaviors ranging from violence to legislation instills within their victims. This is why they feel themselves to be the "real" victims, because it's the only way their illogic holds up. When JC took the whip to the moneychangers he did so fully realizing that he was as much the problem as those he whipped were, doncha know?

Posted by stupidicus on 2017-08-15 19:50:29

Milo is a pedophile. And yes, even the Nazi traitors have a right to speak without being imprisoned by the government. But patriots will throw eggs at them, because they are traitors.

Posted by Southern Sammy on 2017-08-15 19:48:21

I gave you an example... Berkeley. Milo is not a fascist, he is a gay man with a black boyfriend, the conservatives that invited him are not fascist either... yet they were attacked by Antifa. They may label themselves anti-facist but they are actually fascist in disguise. They have shown up to many conservative rally's and caused violence.. even Trump rally's. .. and no, Trump is not fascist either, his own daughter is Jewish! Just as many died fighting Nazis, many died for our right to free speech, our right to protest and the right to assembly.... They did not fight for these rights just for those they agreed with, they fought for EVERY American. Like it or not, they have the right to protest, we also have the right to counter protest... we do not have the right to use counter protest as a guise to deny them their right to free speech, we do not have the right to use violence to silence them. What these groups are labeling as "counter protest" today is not really protesting, it is the attempt to deny the right to free speech.

Posted by Relly on 2017-08-15 19:43:00

No, by definition anti-fascists have nothing to attack when there are no fascists around. Give me a single example of anti-fascists attacking non-fascists.

I agree violence is never the answer. But there needs to be counter protests. These fascists are traitors to this nation: 1 million Americans sacrificed their lives to protect our country from these scum.

Posted by Southern Sammy on 2017-08-15 19:14:22

Yeah... because that worked out so well here eh? 3 people dead and many more injured... Of course they are not patriots, they are scum. ANTIFA are not patriots either, they do not just attack fascist, they attack ANYONE with an opposing view.. one look at Berkeley is proof of that. They label anyone they disagree with as fascist to try and justify the use of violence to silence them. They may call themselves anti-fascist but in truth, they ARE fascist. The best way to confront them is to denounce them and not give them a national platform. When the so called "counter protesters" showed up, they gave them the attention they were seeking. Violence was not the answer, it only begets more violence.

Posted by Relly on 2017-08-15 18:22:41

How is it that a country that is so supportive of the concept of self-defence is confused about what constitutes an appropriate responses to fascism?

Posted by Jenn on 2017-08-15 18:19:46

Over 1 million Americans have given their lives to fight Nazis and white supremacists.

Posted by Southern Sammy on 2017-08-15 18:18:24

So you can't grasp the concepts Dr. Vysotsky has laid out apparently.

Posted by dagnykight on 2017-08-15 18:07:57

Best way to confront Nazis is when they are in a large group. That way, they can't hide.

FYI - Nazis are not patriots. The people that attack Nazis are true Americans.

Posted by Southern Sammy on 2017-08-15 18:00:37

They showed up to do harm to people who advocate for a ethno-state. I don't love antifa, but doing harm to people that advocate for ethnic cleansing is....okay on balance.

Posted by James Siewert on 2017-08-15 17:45:35

Really? Come on! Antifa are nothing but violent thugs.

Posted by surfpipe on 2017-08-15 16:59:36

yea no fuck you, they are the same thing and you are just taking sides

the antifa idiots showed up to do harm to the people who HAD A PERMIT to be there

and that is not agreeing with them.....its just saying shut up and have your other protest on a different day