5:22pm: And a final look at the dollar, which is currently trading at 93.87 US cents and might nudge 94 US cents if it continues the afternoon trend:

While the Reserve Bank has been jawboning more strongly and frequently about the need for a lower Australian dollar to help rebalance economic growth, the central bank is still reliant on the US Federal Reserve starting its tapering to get a downward trend move on the currency, says National Australian Bank currency strategist Emma Lawson.

The big risk is that the Fed ... changes their unemployment threshold from the current 6.5 per cent to something more like 5.5 per cent.

That would delay any tightening or raising of interest rates in the years ahead, and that would be one way where you get a tapering but without a complementary increase in the US dollar, and that would be a problem for the RBA because the Australian dollar wouldn't weaken as much as they would expect.

If the Australian dollar remains up at where it is, then the market's going to have to increase the chances of potentially cutting interest rates or delaying interest rate hikes for quite a long way down the path.

And [the Reserve Bank] will make that very clear that in order to normalise policy, you need a much weaker Australian dollar to start with.

Lawson says the extraordinary monetary policy action taken by some countries following the financial crisis has meant that all central banks have had to readjust their own actions.

Fed chairman Ben Bernanke is set to speak overnight on communication and monetary policy, while RBA governor Glenn Stevens will talk on the 30 years of a floating exchange rate on Thursday night in Sydney.

Expect the markets to be closely following the two speeches and possible question-and-answer sessions.

4:44pm:The organisers of Click Frenzy - Australia's answer to Cyber Monday – have accused online electronics giant Kogan of breaching its registered trademark and issued the retailer with a cease-and-desist letter just hours ahead of the national online sale.

The legal threat comes after Kogan attempted to gate-crash what is expected to be the country's biggest-ever online sales event by launching a 'Kogan Frenzy' sale of its own. The sale began at 7am, 12 hours before the official event gets underway at 7pm.

Click Frenzy's Grant Arnott said it has fully registered trademarks for the Click Frenzy phrase and logo which Kogan "has ignored".

Earlier in the day, Arnott said he was "disappointed" some of Australia's largest retailers including Kogan and department store David Jones had snubbed the official event which was established to support Australian retail.

4:12pm:New Zealand’s government has sold a 20 per cent stake in Air New Zealand, raising $NZ365 million ($323.8 million) as part of its privatisation program to return to a budget surplus and pay back debt.

Finance Minister Bill English said the government had sold 221 million shares in Air New Zealand Ltd at $NZ1.65 each, the same as its last traded price on Friday.

"The sell-down of shares has returned $NZ365 million, which will now be allocated to the Future Investment Fund so we can keep building new assets like schools and hospitals while controlling government debt," English says. "This brings the total share offer programme proceeds to almost $NZ4 billion after three partial sales."

The shares were sold to broking houses after a two-day bookbuild, who were to sell on to retail and institutional investors with preference to be given to local retail investors.

Craigs Investment Partners, Deutsche Bank and Goldman Sachs have been appointed to run the share sale.

3:54pm: The RBA will be looking for signs of a pick-up in consumer spending when it returns from its summer break in February next year, Citi chief economist Paul Brennan says:

They are now going to review things in February after they come back from the summer break and see to what extent the economy continues to respond to rate cuts, particularly on the consumer side.

I think they would like to see consumer spending pick up. We'll get a read of that to some extent through Christmas with the Christmas and the post-Christmas sales and given that they don't think that non-mining business investment's going to pick up anytime soon, they really need to see some signs of a pick-up in consumer spending over the next three months or so.

Otherwise, if they don't, that might mean that they could consider cutting again. But our central case is we will see some pick up in consumer spending, which will tide things over until non-mining business investment picks up.

The Reserve Bank has one more board meeting this year, on December 3, before it breaks for the festive season. Its next board meeting is then on February 4.

3:49pm: Prime Minister Tony Abbott has said he won’t apologise as Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono recalled his envoy from Canberra and warned of damaged ties after media reports that Australian spies tried to tap his phone.

“Australia should not be expected to apologize for the steps we take to defend this country,” Abbott told parliament.

He said he regretted any embarrassment to Yudhoyono, while defending security measures implemented by past governments.

Yudhoyono brushed off earlier efforts to defuse tensions, saying last night on his official Twitter feed that he will review areas of cooperation with Australia and is awaiting an official response to the spying reports.

3:41pm: Qantas has asked its 30,000 staff and their families and friends to support its campaign against the foreign ownership of rival Virgin Australia.

The airline has set up an online petition against the ‘‘unfair playing field’’ it says is created by the growing stake in Virgin Australia held by its three major shareholders - Air New Zealand, Singapore Airlines and Etihad Airways.

‘‘For 18 months Virgin has been losing money, driven by a strategy of setting uncompetitively low prices to win customers off Qantas across all our flying businesses,’’ Qantas says on the website.

Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce has already written to the prime minister to call for an examination of the ‘‘virtual takeover’’ of Virgin Australia by the foreign airlines. But Virgin Australia says the sector has changed forever, and is no longer a monopoly dominated by Qantas.

Air New Zealand, Singapore Airlines and Etihad Airways currently own 63 per cent of Virgin Australia, and that could soon increase to almost 70 per cent as the airline issues new shares to raise $350 million. Richard Branson’s Virgin Group holds another 10 per cent.

The Qantas Sale Act limits foreign ownership of the airline to 49 per cent.

Qantas’ protest against Virgin Australia’s ownership comes just over a week since it announced the closure of its heavy maintenance base in Avalon, resulting in 300 jobs losses.

3:25pm: Brent has slipped to near $US108 a barrel as renewed concern about the possible tightening of monetary policy in the United States offset support from continuing oil supply disruption in Libya.

US crude futures posted their biggest daily loss in nearly a week on Monday after top Fed officials pointed to improvements in the US economy that could spur the central bank to start "tapering" its asset purchases.

January Brent crude fell 44 cents to $US108.03 a barrel, down for the third straight session. U.S. crude for December edged down 12 cents to $92.91.

3:06pm: On the face of it, the bidding war for Warrnambool Cheese and Butter has become detached from financial reality. WCB is forecast to earn $20.75 million in the year to June 2014, according to Eikon. At the $504 million price tag the bidders have put on the company, that implies a return of little more than 4 per cent.

It's tempting to assume that increased Chinese demand for foreign dairy products will translate into higher earnings for WCB Euromonitor expects 16 percent annual growth for overall dairy in China to 2018. But other competitors are also vying for that market, and WCB’s exports to China are still small.

Local bidders Bega Cheese and Murray Goulburn have the advantage that they already own respective stakes of 18 per cent and 17 percent in their target. They should also benefit from cost savings: Bega reckons it can squeeze an extra $7.5 million before tax out of WCB in the first year of ownership. Put these two factors together and Bega's projected return on investment rises closer to 6 per cent. Murray Goulburn has not put a figure on cost savings - presumably to minimize scrutiny from Australian competition authorities who still have to approve its offer.

Without a pre-existing investment in WCB and lacking obvious synergies, Canada's Saputo appears to be at a disadvantage. But its secret weapon is access to cheap financing. The company's interest costs over the past four years are just over 5 per cent of its net debt. That gives its wholly debt-funded offer the advantage over Bega, which is paying mostly with its own shares, which carry a higher cost of capital.

2:55pm: The "slightly better-than-expected ATO tax assessment" Monday for Spark Infrastructure "highlights the upside inherent in the stock should future outcomes turn out to be anything other than a worst-case scenario," CIMB told clients today in a research note.

It has an "outperform" rating with a $1.87 target price since its "robust growth profile continues to be undervalued by the market, with the security being priced for worst-case outcomes from the ongoing tax audits and future regulatory resets for SA Power Networks and Victoria Power Networks in 2015/16, which we think is unlikely to materialise," it told clients.

2:43pm:Seven Group is looking at new sectors such as agribusiness and water for growth as the group weathers a downturn in mining services which will see it cut 1000 staff from its Westrac business this year.

‘‘We’ve been given the remit from the chairman to take a look at growing (Seven Group)’’, the company’s chief executive, Don Voelte told reporters after its shareholder meeting in Sydney today.

‘‘Our executive team is actively looking at, analysing and negotiating new organic or acquisition targets associated with industrial services, energy, food and water,’’ he said at the meeting.

Seven Group has a wide range of interests including a 35 per cent stake in media group Seven West Media and an extensive share portfolio.

Voelte said the company’s plan is to use the current downturn to make its existing businesses better and use its strong cash flow to ‘‘add to that portfolio with profitable and growth businesses of the future’’ which fit with its core competencies.

It does not mean the group will be decreasing its bet on the mining boom with Voelte describing the downturn, which will see Seven Group earnings decline up to 40 per cent this year, as a ‘‘China anomaly’’ in a decade long growth curve.

2:23pm: Here's a few more economists' views on the RBA minutes released today.

HSBC chief economist for Australia Paul Bloxham: The RBA is still worried about the high Australian dollar. The central bank noted that they are seeing signs that the improvement in conditions is extending beyond just a pick-up in the housing market. We remain of the view that the Australian dollar will fall modestly over 2014 and that the RBA will not need to cut rates further.

UBS economist George Tharenou: Overall, the RBA holds a mild ‘easing bias’ ... However, the RBA still expects an improvement in (non-mining) growth, and argues that the full boost from prior rate cuts is still coming – specifically noting they are watching the housing market response. Hence, we think the RBA is likely the hold the cash rate steady ahead – given an ongoing improving trend of domestic data, coupled with our expectation of a Fed taper in first-quarter 2014 which should see the Australian dollar depreciate further.

CommSec chief economist Craig James: Essentially the Reserve Bank is in "wait and see" mode, and will look to get a clearer picture of how the domestic business and household sectors respond in the Christmas spending period and in the early part of 2014. ... while the RBA maintains a cautious approach, the prior rate cuts are only just starting to have an impact across the economy. CommSec expects no change in policy settings in the next few months.

2:08pm: It’s lonely being a biotechnology company in New Zealand, says Innate Immunotherapeutics which expects to list on the ASX in late December.

Innate, which is developing a treatment for advanced multiple sclerosis (MS), recently moved to Sydney from Auckland.

The company intends to conduct a large clinical trial of its compound MIS416 in Australia and is seeking to raise $12 million in an initial public offer of shares before listing on the ASX.

Chief executive Simon Wilkinson says Australia has more patients and more specialist doctors involved in clinical research than New Zealand. Australia also has attractive government rebates for research and development, and a much deeper pool of possible money sources.

1:55pm: Engineering and maintenance outfit Monadelphous is facing a year of ‘‘consolidation’’ after ‘‘an abnormal surge in revenue in the past two years’’, the managing director, Mr Rob Velletri told shareholders.

During this time, revenue more than doubled in just three years thanks to the boom in resource sector spending.

The slowdown has placed margins are under pressure, which has forced management to shave $15 million off its overheads, shareholders were told at today’s annual general meeting.

As a result, December half revenues is expected to be steady with the second half of the previous financial year, but with a softer June half, as a number of projects are completed, he said.

While there are a number of contracts under bidding, margin pressures are high, amid greater competition for work, he said.

‘‘Prospects from committed and planned resource developments in the iron ore and oil and gas sectors will ... provide construction opportunities,’’ Mr Velletri said, pointing to gas export projects as an area of opportunity.

1:45pm:China is expanding asset securitisation on an unprecedented scale as the government looks to increase bank liquidity without expanding the money supply, market sources say.

Regulators plan to grant quotas totalling 300 to 400 billion yuan ($52-70 billion) for firms to sell asset-backed securities (ABS) in coming years also as a tool to shift risk away from the banking system, reducing the chances of a financial crisis as economic growth slows and bad loans rise, market sources say.

The quota will equal the total outstanding value of the central bank's Short-term Lending Facility, a channel through which the central bank provides liquidity to the banking system, modelled after the US Federal Reserve's discount window.

"The scale of the new round of the ABS programme is set to reach a level that will have a real impact on the market and economy for the first time," said a senior money market trader at a major Chinese state-owned bank in Shanghai.

China Development Bank, the policy bank that funds infrastructure projects, today sold 8 billion yuan in securities backed by the bank's loans to the state railway operator. CDB is likely to take a large share of the expanded ABS quota.

The People's Bank of China also said today that banks should start identifying assets suitable for securitisation with ABS deals based on small business, rural development, and infrastructure loans most likely to win approval.

1:36pm: Retirement home operator Ingenia has signalled it is likely to sell its remaining offshore assets this financial year and reinvest the proceeds into buying more caravan parks.

The company owns three student accommodation buildings in Wellington, New Zealand which are valued at $35.6 million, with an estimated $15 million of net equity tied up in these assets.

''I would anticipate that we will exit our non-core New Zealand Students accommodation portfolio and re-invest the proceeds in identified [manufacturered home estates] and development opportunities,'' the group's chief executive, Mr Simon Owen told shareholders at Tuesday's annual general meeting.

In afternoon trading, Ingenia’s share price was up 0.5c at 50c, having doubled so far this year.

1:12pm: The RBA is facing a dilemma between a still-elevated level Australian dollar and booming housing market that is threatening to overheat when it weighs up its interest rate decisions.

The strengthening housing market is already stymieing the central bank's ability to cut rates to take some heat out of the Australian dollar, CBA senior economist Michael Workman says.

The central bank noted again in its November minutes, released this morning, that the dollar "remained uncomfortably high".

"The stimulation [of the economy] needs to come from a lower currency," Mr Workman says.

"Cutting interest rates just has an unwelcome and most probably an unnecessary impact on the housing sector, which benefits home owners unnecessarily by increasing the value of their properties.

"You always have this problem in Australia where so much lending is done at the short-end. Variable rate loans are the norm. So if you keep cutting interest rates, you tend to overstimulate the housing market, and that's probably a problem for the them at this stage."

I think they basically think they've provided a substantial degree of policy stimulus and at this stage, they don't want to do anymore as they are seeing some signs of it working through the economy.

"But equally they are quite unsure that how quickly the non-resources business investment will pick-up and they seem to be saying in the minutes that it's probably going to be a story for 2015.

The RBA repeated the comments in the quarterly Statement on Monetary Policy (SOMP), released earlier this month, which downgraded the 2014 and 2015 growth forecasts amid weaker-than-expected mining investment.

It added that it was not yet clear when non-mining business investment would fill the gap.

"Members noted that while the timing of investment upturns was very difficult to predict, it appeared likely that growth of the economy over the coming year would be below trend but that growth could reasonably be expected to pick up thereafter," the minutes said.

12:10pm:Nokia shareholders are expected to approve the sale of its mobile phone business to Microsoft this week, with the deal's financial benefits likely to outweigh resistance from a minority of investors upset over the sale of a Finnish national icon.

Nokia agreed in September to sell its devices and services business and license its patents to Microsoft for 5.44 billion euros ($7.84 billion) after failing to recover from a late start in smartphones.

The sale, which is expected to close in the first quarter of next year after regulatory approvals, is set to boost Nokia's net cash position to nearly 8 billion euros from around 2 billion in the third quarter and allow it to return cash to shareholders, possibly through a special dividend.

11:57am: The Australian dollar has bounced back from the day's low after the minutes of the RBA's November board meeting appeared to indicate that the central bank is willing to waiting for some time for the "stimulatory effects" of previous rate cuts to follow through.

The currency fell to a low of 93.53 US cents just before the minutes were released, but jumped back up shortly after that and was buying 93.78 US cents about 11.40am.

The RBA said "there was mounting evidence that monetary policy was supporting activity in interest-sensitive sectors and asset values, and given the lags with which monetary policy operates, the stimulatory effects would likely continue coming through for some time".

The central bank added that "it was appropriate to leave the cash rate unchanged while continuing to gauge the effects, including in the housing market, of the substantial degree of monetary policy stimulus that had been put in place over the past two years".

Financial markets have been lowering their expectations for another cut to the cash rate over the next few months. Markets are pricing in an 8 per cent chance of a cut in December, and start to price in a 2 per cent chance of a rate hike in June 2014.

11:41am: The minutes also include some comments on the housing market, with the board noting the strong prices but not showing any particular worry about a possible bubble:

Members noted that conditions in the housing market continued to strengthen. Nationally, dwelling prices were above their late 2010 peak, with prices over the three months to October increasing significantly in Sydney. Housing turnover and loan approvals had picked up noticeably. Improved conditions in the established housing market were providing an impetus to dwelling investment, with residential building approvals increasing over the year.

Approvals increased notably in September, driven by a pick-up in high-density approvals, which tend to be quite volatile from one month to the next. In discussion, members observed that developments in the established housing market and the increase in new dwelling activity seen to date were among the expected effects of the low level of interest rates.

11:39am: The RBA notes in the minutes of its November board meeting that there was ‘‘mounting evidence’’ interest-rate cuts are working, even as it retained the option of loosening policy further to support growth in an economy battling an ‘‘uncomfortably high’’ currency:

Given the substantial degree of policy stimulus that had been imparted, it was prudent to hold the cash rate steady while continuing to gauge the effects, but not to close off the possibility of reducing it further should that be appropriate.

There was mounting evidence that monetary policy was supporting activity in interest-sensitive sectors and asset values, and given the lags with which monetary policy operates, the stimulatory effects would likely continue coming through for some time.

At the same time, inflation remained within the target and the Australian dollar, while below its level earlier in the year, remained uncomfortably high.

Members noted that a lower level of the exchange rate would likely be needed to achieve balanced growth in the economy.

11:28am: Consumer-focused financial services company Thorn Group, owner of retail banners Radio Rentals and Cashfirst, has ridden a booming demand for its financing services to unveil record revenue for the half year to September 30, although its half-year profit was slightly down due to a heavy investment in its diversification strategy.

A continued focus on its diversification strategy which, while expected to deliver growing returns in the medium to longer term, will mean the company has forecast limited growth in fiscal 2014.

The company reported this morning that revenue was up 12 per cent to $112.7 million for the period, while net profit after tax was down 5 per cent to $13.3 million. The half-year dividend was maintained 4.5 cents a share fully franked.

11:17am: The Australian dollar has slipped ahead of the release of the RBA minutes at 11.30am.

It was trading at 94.19 US cents about 8pm yesterday, but has since fallen back below 94 US cents. It's currently fetching 93.67 US cents.

Two of the key issues investors will be looking out for in the minutes will be any commentary on the Australian dollar and housing.

In the October minutes, the RBA said on housing that the effect of low interest rates was evident across a range of indicators and had further to run.

"House prices and turnover had increased and leading indicators pointed to a pick-up in dwelling investment over the period ahead," the minutes noted.

On the Australian dollar, the RBA's board noted that the currency had appreciated on the back of a delay to Fed tapering and stronger-than-expected Chinese economic data.

"However, members noted that the Australian dollar was still around 10 per cent below its peak in April," the minutes said.

The RBA has since jawboned about the strength of the exchange rate. RBA's assistant governor for financial markets, Guy Debelle, said the currency's recent strength was ''not in line with fundamentals''. The RBA said in its November meeting statement that the dollar was ''still uncomfortably high''.

And Stevens also said in another speech that the ''levels of the exchange rate are not supported by Australia's relative levels of costs and productivity''.

11:04am: Consumer-focused financial services company Thorn Group, owner of retail banners Radio Rentals and Cashfirst, has ridden a booming demand for its financing services to unveil record revenue for the half year to September 30, although its half-year profit was slightly down due to a heavy investment in its diversification strategy.

A continued focus on its diversification strategy which, while expected to deliver growing returns in the medium to longer term, will mean the company has forecast limited growth in fiscal 2014.

The company reported this morning that revenue was up 12 per cent to $112.7 million for the period, while net profit after tax was down 5 per cent to $13.3 million. The half-year dividend was maintained 4.5 cents a share fully franked.

Thorn said the group's revenue was at record high as new business grew, especially for core business, Radio Rentals, but profit was lower due to non-recurring profit items in the previous corresponding period and a start-up cost related to the trial of Rent, Drive, Buy.

10:55am:A South Korean electronics firm has sued leading global banks in New York for manipulating the foreign exchange market as regulators in several countries investigate similar allegations.

Circuit board maker Simmtech filed a class action suit last Friday in the New York federal district court alleging traders in the banks colluded to distort prices on the $US5 trillion a day global forex market, cheating clients.

The suit said the traders operated in secret groups known as ‘‘The Bandits’ Club’’ and ‘‘The Cartel’’ to distort the base rates on which clients trade for their own and their banks’ benefits.

It named seven banks, and subsidiaries, which it said control 60 per cent of the global forex trade: Barclays, Citigroup, Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank, JPMorgan Chase, Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) and UBS.

10:24am:The RBA's November meeting minutes will be out at 11.30am. Given that they come after the quarterly Statement on Monetary Policy (SOMP), which was released in the same week as the RBA's November meeting, analysts say the minutes would be less significant.

But the market will still be looking out for more expansion on why the central bank decided to keep rates on hold at 2.5 per cent, and any hints of forward guidance, which have been lacking in the meetings' statements.

The key highlights of the SOMP included:

Lower growth forecast: Down to 2 to 3 per cent in 2014, and 2.25 to 3.25 per cent in 2015.

Need for lower dollar: Weaker exchange rate "likely to be needed to achieve balanced growth in the economy".

Further rate cuts: RBA would not "close off the possibility of reducing" the cash rate further should the economy need further stimulus.

Everyone thinks US stocks are in a bubble, driven by the expanding balance sheet of the US Federal Reserve. From a short-term perspective, the rally in US equities has likely gotten ahead of itself on a fundamental and technical basis. And with the emergence of selling resistance at obvious round numbers on the Dow Jones Industrial Average and S&P 500 Index at 1,800 and 16,000, an interim top is likely in place, leading to lower prices over the next few sessions.

Ongoing talks of a bubble developing in US equities is clearly scaring market participants out of the market given equities continue pushing to fresh all-time highs. Many investors, with the GFC still fresh on their mind, don’t want to buy into this rally out of fear of buying at the top. Although there is growing evidence a market bubble is brewing, the existence of scepticism and doubt about the current bull market is actually more bullish in nature. It must be remembered that although stocks are at all-time highs and are fairly valued based on historic trailing earnings, equities have, until recently, essentially gone nowhere over the past 15 years.

So in the short-term stocks look overbought and we expect some form of a pullback, but from a longer-term perspective, there still seems plenty of room left in the post GFC bull market.

9:55am: Property investor The GPT Group has made a $2.99 billion takeover bid for Commonwealth Property Office Fund, gate-crashing an agreed $2.8 billion deal with Dexus Property and a Canadian pension fund.

GPT said it would offer $0.75325 in cash and 0.141 GPT security for each CPA unit, valuing the company at $1.272 per unit.

That trumps a $1.21 per unit offer from Canada Pension Plan Investment Board and Dexus Property that CPA's managing body recommended to shareholders this month which is under due diligence.

GPT said its deal was worth $4 billion, including CPA debt, and was conditional on receiving 50.1 per cent minimum acceptance.

9:46am:Activist investor Carl Icahn says he is "very cautious" about the US stock market, saying he could see a "big drop" because earnings at many companies are fuelled more by low borrowing costs than management's efforts to boost results.

Unnerved by the billionaire investor's prognosis, investors pushed stocks lower. The S&P 500, which was trading near unchanged before Mr Icahn spoke, ended down 0.4 per cent.

Mr Icahn, speaking at the Reuters Global Investment Outlook Summit, also hinted at his ongoing plan for Apple, the most valuable US company by market value, saying he does not want to fight with management at the iPhone giant but has no plans to walk away from his investment.

Shares of Apple were at $US518.92 a share, down 1.2 per cent on the day, after trading at $US523.11 before Mr Icahn's remarks. Mr Icahn said he still thinks Apple's stock price is undervalued and said the company's CEO, Tim Cook, feels the same way.

9:40am: A small New Hampshire coffee producer that operates out of a barn has prevailed in a trademark infringement case brought by Starbucks over a blend called ''Charbucks.''

''We're just a mom-and-pop little roastery,'' said Annie Clark, who with her husband, Jim, owns Black Bear Micro Roastery in Tuftonboro.

They were sued in 2001 in federal district court in New York by Starbucks, which alleged Black Bear's use of the name ''Charbucks'' infringed, blurred and tarnished its famous trademarks.

Starbucks appealed to the 2nd US Court Circuit Court of Appeals after Black Bear prevailed in district court. The appeals court agreed with the district court, saying Starbucks didn't prove its case.

Charbucks, introduced in 1997, is Black Bear's darkest roast coffee. The appeals court noted that ''one of the reasons Black Bear used the term 'Charbucks' was the public perception that Starbucks roasted its beans unusually darkly.''

Quotes Search

Iron ore price to dive 50% in 2014. Far too much supply coming on to market. Aussie economy cactus! Yikes what will that do to house prices! Look out below! ROFLMAO!

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 5:31PM

Imitation the sincerest form of flattery. Love it! Good times for the shorters.

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 5:18PM

I read 3 US sites every day,bloomberg Market watch, forbes. Across these sites you get a cross section of US action including what the hedge funds are uptocurrently George Soros is getting back into gold via EFT miners over one million lots . Is george in the know?

Bought a great house at auction on the weekend. Well.. I think it's a great home.. others describe it as a "nothing home in a nothing suburb". There was this man standing in the back at the auction. After my winning bid won the auction he smiled at me, patted me on the head, and gave me this envelope. Inside was the following poem...

This is the debt I payJust for one riotous day,Years of regret and grief,Sorrow without relief.

Pay it I will to the end —Until the grave, my friend,Gives me a true release —Gives me the clasp of peace.

Slight was the thing I bought,Small was the debt I thought,Poor was the loan at best —God! but the interest!

Commenter

Million Dollar

Location

Home Owner (Well the banks own it and me but you know what I mean)

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 4:36PM

Rent. Littlelandlords will subsidise you.

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 5:13PM

Added to FMG short @ $5.88. GIFT! Pollyannas never learn!

Commenter

Alan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 4:29PM

Good move!

Commenter

Gee up

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 5:15PM

Click Frenzy numpty retailers rattled by Kogan. Love it!

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 4:27PM

WBC and NAB whacked. Love it!

Commenter

Evil banker

Location

Your wallet

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 4:26PM

Gomer where are you?

Commenter

Stan Cadwallader

Location

At the chapel

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 4:24PM

In Prahran with you al,why?

Commenter

Gomer

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 4:56PM

Great day for the shorters. Again. Now the market is only 29.4% overpriced.

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 4:21PM

Have you still got those MTS Mitch. They seem to have sprung a leak yet div seems good. Any idea where they are going?

I have a buy order in at $3.18 for a modest number of MTS to bring down the price (Mitch effect). I am wondering how they will hold up in a difficult retail environment.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 4:17PM

"Prime Minister Tony Abbott has said he won’t apologise as Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono"

Make 250M of our nearest neighbours angry. Clever is our Tony.

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 4:00PM

RE: 2:55pm: SKI (Spark Infrastructure)

GIFT at these prices. Good 6.6% unfranked div too!

Agree with outperform broker calls today!

Commenter

GS

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:53PM

Afternoon fade. Love it!

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:49PM

anyone here back #24 in the cup? al said it was a sure thing!

Commenter

gomer

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:45PM

Aww.. cheer up, no need to invent things.

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 4:15PM

Sell FXJ long for 25%. Thanks for playing.

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:41PM

Add to BOQ shorts 12.75. Gift.

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:40PM

Fiction.

Commenter

Contrarian

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:51PM

Fact.

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 4:16PM

"Since August 2nd, 2013, residents living across the road from Origin Energy's "Ironbark" Project near Kogan, Western Downs, QLD, have been continually showered by an unknown toxic black substance emanating from Origin's project site. The mystery substance, which has so far rained down over thousands of acres, contaminating bushland, farms and domestic water supplies, is accompanied by feelings of nausea, skin and eye irritations, and what residents describe as a chronic lack of physical energy."

Scrambling for gas to feed into their overpriced LNG plant. Environment? Wassat?

Commenter

Mick Jagger

Location

It's a gas gas gas

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:37PM

probably "black powder" which is associated with gas pipelines, usually spread when pigging/cleaning operations are undertaken on newy installed gas lines,,,,could be toxic? wouldnt really want to breath too much of it,,,but i have been in the industry and its standard,usually the operator does something to contain things.western qld full of cowboys and cowboy operations also a genetic cul de sac......but dissappointing that the client [ORG] arent on to it as its there pr hit.

Commenter

BearShapedBull

Location

Pamplona

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 5:15PM

We need money to build infrastructure. Quick sell some infrastructure!

Commenter

Pollie

Location

Upside down on my perch

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:29PM

Queensland a basket case. Underground? Puhleeese...

Please Pollyannas BOQ $13 thanks.

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:25PM

Question for the knowledgeable here. When PAB are going to offer a rights issue base on 2 shares for each one held, are these issued free? If not free are they issued @0.05 per share? What normally happens to a share after this issue, is it up or down or neutral? Sorry but never participated in a rights issue before and have had this stock for nearly 6 months.

Don't have any Apple...shares or products. It just doesn't impress me at all. Last year I bought an Ipod, gave it to someone for free when I visited Europe last year....never again shall I waste my money on crap.

Commenter

Buy a Pear instead

Location

Sydney

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:17PM

Why buy a pear. Pick one off your tree for free.

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:27PM

According to this article http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/malaysia-airlines-posts-thirdquarter-loss-20131119-2xrtn.html#ixzz2l3GuymyWMAS made losses in July-Sept, due to fuel cost and weak currency.I don't understand it, all I can say is RBA is Jawboning A$, will kill Qantas. May be that is GS intention.

Commenter

Cynics

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 2:31PM

Bubbles... lots of talk about bubbles...

Commenter

Liberator

Location

SEQLD

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 2:25PM

He he... the RBA lost... cheap money is only being used in the housing bubble. The rest of the economy has flatlined. The lever is broken.

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 2:20PM

LOL at the headline. If Icahn is so influencial, why didn't Apple's price rise????

And it wasn't a "late" sell-off - it started at 2.30pm and gradually dropped over the next 90 minutes!

The more likely reason for the drop is the S&P found resistance at 1800 and the DOW found resistance at 16000.

And as to Rivkin's Shane Stewart's (10.07am) comment: "Everyone thinks US stocks are in a bubble", if they did then the US market would drop substantially while in fact it continues to rally.

Sheesh, the ongoing logic fails on this webpage are getting ridiculous...

Commenter

Life Is Good

Location

The Real World

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 2:19PM

no stopping the BOQ...thanks.

Commenter

BOQMAN

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 1:41PM

12c! You must be thrilled!

Commenter

Hurrah

Location

In the crowd

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 2:13PM

When it was $18+ it was 60% overpriced. Now it's only 40% overpriced. It's improving.

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 2:26PM

Gift!!

Commenter

omg_its_Al_with_nfi

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 2:40PM

"omg_its_Al_with_nfi"

This is a friendly forum where we post out trades, opinions and research. We don't use terms like "nfi" here.

Commenter

Mall cop

Location

Behave yourself

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:19PM

One month to go till Christmas and we're going *down*?? How can it be?!

Haha yeah looks like Allan is juggling a bit too much at the moment going by the comments on here.

Commenter

Upthecreek2

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:46PM

Can't wait for the great Warren Buffet to be the days headline, surely there will be a HUGE move one way or the other. Fair dinkum, the whole market reaction to an individual's comment is ridiculous. We get good leads from US on Monday and Europe/GB on Tuesday and we go down both days. Difficult to comprehend!

Commenter

Looking for Value

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 1:08PM

Most influential investors such as C Icahn, W Buffet tend to look into the future for signs of value whereas most other published data are taken from the past; which one would you rather believe?

Commenter

Sideline Investor

Location

Sydney

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 1:28PM

But don't you believe them

They say hey little boy you can't go where the others go'Cause you don't look like they doSaid hey old man how can you stand to think that wayDid you really think about it before you made the rules, he said, son

That's just the way it isSome things will never changeThat's just the way it is

Commenter

Bruce Hornsby

Location

'stralia

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 1:29PM

Great start to the week. Another good week for the shorters?

Broad losses. I like it!

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 1:02PM

Allan. . .why do you like it?? I mean seriously, I understand that you are a shorter, and that it is a fully valid means of trading. Hey, I would use it myself - I agree with some of the things you say. But at the end of the day, you couldn't possibly 'like' seeing the market go down. I mean come on. That's people losing money right in front of you. And if you genuinely do like seeing the market go down, then something is seriously amiss.

Commenter

C'est La Vie

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 1:57PM

@Vie. Don't worry about the lil fella as he seems to be working tirelessly to undermine the markets.

Commenter

punters gift

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:14PM

You can now buy cheaper. What's your problem?

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:23PM

Oh so your running an invaluable service to all those ignoramuses out there. Thanks for your selfless contribution to society

"Global greenhouse gas emissions from burning fossil fuels reached the highest levels in human history last year, driven predominantly by Chinese growth, and are projected to surge even further in 2013."

Quick ship more coal to China. There are still many ten year olds who don't have lung cancer.

Call me an IDIOT or optimist but got NCM @9.06 and SBM @.0.32 and now ready to cry or laugh Probably the former.

Commenter

GeoPerth

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:55AM

Your an Idiot but so am I with regards to NCM - it just seems too cheap

Commenter

I told you so

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 12:02PM

Best of luck @ GeoPerth, only time will tell. It would be nice if the gold price would get a bit of a move on for you. It is in the hands of the Bears at the moment, hopefully only in the short term.

Commenter

Looking for Value

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 12:04PM

never buy a falling stock rule no1always buy on the up and sell on the down

Commenter

Warren Banquet

Location

Smorgasbord

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 12:20PM

You do realise that sometimes a big drop in the price of a stock is engineered by deliberately selling a stock down in order to trigger Stop Loss orders and pick up stock on the cheap. I have lost count of the number of times I have seen a stock price fall dramatically for no reason only to quickly recover. Inside knowledge of an impending takeover is often a factor. I have written to ASIC about cases I have observed but nothing happens at that end. I also alert a couple of financial journalists I know to give them a lead for a possible article.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 1:39PM

I do think that NCM is just unloved but since I brought this morning, it has crept back up by 12 cents so looking okay as long as it holds. SBM though is different, it has fallen more than 14% in 2 days. As its hedged its gold price higher than the current gold price, it may a be manipulation of the price. It is down by 1 cent from my buy in. I know that I should not buy a falling stock but rules are made to be broken some times.

Commenter

GeoPerth

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 2:23PM

Question for the knowledgeable here. When PAB are going to offer a rights issue base on 2 shares for each one held, are these issued free? If not free are they issued @0.05 per share? What normally happens to a share after this issue, is it up or down or neutral? Sorry but never participated in a rights issue before and have had this stock for nearly 6 months

Commenter

GeoPerth

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 2:30PM

NCM share price, in IMO, will go lower. Market reaction to perceived management incompetence and a falling gold price trend. SBM should be OK, if no other reason because of the hedging. I prefer BDR - lower costs and better hedged prices.

Commenter

Yin or yang

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 3:35PM

@X I use a soapbox. It has the lowest possible brokerage price attached

Commenter

Rumplestiltskin

Location

Bordello

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:47AM

Anyone have any idea why RSG's share price doesn't seem to hold up as well as BDR on down days?

They're both low-cost producers - whether gold is $1400 or $1100, they still have large per-ounce profit margins. So why is one so much more susceptible to collapse than the other.

Commenter

X

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:29AM

RSG is NOT a low cost producer. All in production cost of $1,375 an ounce last year. At current gold price they aren't profitable. BDR on other hand are definitely low cost producer.

Commenter

Kingly

Location

Oz

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 12:01PM

I know nothing about RSG so cannot help you with them, but BDR has gold hedged at $US1600 per ounce and the Brazilian Real has been really weak. BDR has a number of other things going for it as well like continuing good results from its Duckhead mine and iron ore credits which will have a positive impact on cash costs of $US435-$US485 per ounce They have also announced a dividend policy for 2014. Hope this helps with the BDR side of your query.

Commenter

Looking for Value

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 12:24PM

More an observation than a query or whinge, really. I've been trading BDR lately anyway - bought at 0.84, sold at 0.90, bought again at 0.875, sold at 0.915, now waiting to buy again.

Commenter

X

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 12:44PM

Do a 10 day graph on CBA & MQG. A classic "head and shoulders" formation exists. Other banks have a flatter head. If CBA fails to return to 77.50-77.60 range in the next few days, it could suggest the banks are in the early phase of a correction. Perhaps, the big short bets, by US hedge funds, on Australia's "ripe plums" - a phrase used by Robert Gottliebsen in a recent article to portray Ozzie banks - could be a sign of things to come. GG.

They ain't gonna crash. We're headed for 6000 by Jan 2014. This is about the biggest correction we'll have fro the next couple of months. Up, up and away!

Commenter

bearly_there

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 12:10PM

just don't mention the BOQ

Commenter

shorter stalker

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 12:34PM

10:33am '' We all recognise that virtual currencies, in and of themselves, are not illegal," .... True, bitcoins were sold with full disclosure. Years ago people use to buy pet rocks, also legal. But where is the value. At least with national currency there is a promise to pay the holder. With bitcoin, the holder is relying on somene else to buy their pet rock. Why can't all of us sell our own virtual currencies?

Commenter

bearly gruntled

Location

land of hot air

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:21AM

agreed but after hyper-inflation due to overuse of QE you dont have to carry your cash in a wheelbarrow to buy the groceries,just click it online to the next fool in the domino queue ;)

Commenter

BearShapedBull

Location

Pamplona

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 12:46PM

sto buy @ 14.59"fears of a stock bubble in us are rising"yet last week that hoax janet lemon said there were no signs of any asset misalignment?? she also indicated that bank interest rates may go into negative to penalise savers and get people spending again....wow shes sooo outta touch....short the US Fed

Commenter

BearShapedBull

Location

Pamplona

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:15AM

Negative interest rates would seem to be almost a last resort. The old enemy of inflation is becoming the new friend. Obama et al would love a rapid world wide 50% inflation because it would halve their debts. They need to prevent the smell of desperation wafting out beyond their closed doors.

Commenter

bearly gruntled

Location

land of hot air

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:32AM

It's not only people like Icahn who moves prices, the Investment Banks' so called analysts re-ratings (mainly in the US) can do it.

Microsoft dropped 1.6% overnight because of a downgrade by Merrill Lynch.

Commenter

Bud Fox

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:15AM

"The initial capital raised in the year to October is already the highest since 2007, at just under $11.5 billion."

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Commenter

The Omen

Location

Damien's house

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:11AM

Yeah. The stats seem to point to a bubble. YTD, the S&P 500 is up 26%, the Nasdaq 32%.

But with all this "bubble talk" in the press, I think the 'bubble' may have a way to go yet!

On the other hand, I read that (forgot the site) the cash components of many managed funds are at their lowest. And we know how good these fund managers are ....

Commenter

Bud Fox

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:30AM

Is that because the market can't see anything worth investing in amongst the established players so are desperately piling into something new and often unproven. Me, I'm sticking with what I know with past performance to help in decision-making.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 12:10PM

where are all the shorters that were going to bring the financials to thier knees this month?? weak as.nice call robbo...you numpty you

Commenter

no banks .. no party!

Location

i need em lower

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:09AM

Banks are in a major uptrend! To the moon!

Commenter

You canna fool me

Location

There's no such thing as a sanity clause

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:25AM

Banks never fall. It's always a good time to buy banks. And houses.

Commenter

Lord Ownmore

Location

Ivory Tower

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:03AM

With a lot of analysts predicting between 5500 and 5600 by xmas, I am at a loss to see where the 150 - 250 points are going to come from,given the already high SP's of the usual suspects and the insipid nature of the market.

Commenter

Captor

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 10:58AM

I checked my tea leaves this morning, and they gave no clue as well.

Commenter

Oracle

Location

2233

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 1:22PM

blah......icahn'tbitcoins anyone?

Commenter

BearShapedBull

Location

Pamplona

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 10:57AM

I virtual gift this blog with bit coinshe he

Commenter

hero

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:44AM

Risky - but who is looking at punting on LEI?One of those companies much higher final div than the interim div. Stock has done well November-March for the last 3 years. Gearing and cash collection remain a concern for short term earnings, but the Q3 report looked promising for the medium term (strong uplift in order book, revenue, NPAT etc).

Commenter

willo

Location

syd

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 10:56AM

I'm punting on them and I know a few other guys here are. There are some concerns as you said, but for a share that was trading at $20 a month or so ago, nothing has changed to the fundamentals.

I have a bit of concern that they included the "subject to market conditions" throwaway cop out line after they reconfirmed their expected profits, but really it looks to be a good bet in the short term.

Commenter

Andrew137

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:21AM

Risky? well it is the ASXim in deepbut avg out around 16.53 on 1350consensus sees a good buy at these current prices. agreed gearing is a concern i think yinyang highlighted to me last week as i was puzzled by EPAT increase and downward share price...its one of my hold till i die/retire stocks so looking at 10 years...as my mum said your young enough for it to turn around [post GFC]

Commenter

BearShapedBull

Location

Pamplona

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 12:09PM

B LEI $16.67

Got lucky today, had an order in at 16.70 yesterday and it got to 16.71.

Commenter

Andrew137

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 10:50AM

I regret buying last week. Got in at $17.156

Commenter

Bing

Location

Sydney

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 1:30PM

$17.15 isn't a bad price I don't think. Has been trading in a range of 16.7-18.1 so there's still plenty of room for decent sized profits.

Commenter

Andrew137

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 1:50PM

11:30 bounce on the RBA saying nothing?

Commenter

WWWish

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 10:48AM

IMHO.....RBA will say something again about wanting the AUD to go lower....market will drop a little...at least for a short time....

Commenter

mirage

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:12AM

I wonder if the algo's are programmed in at 5350 today or somewhere lower. Will be interesting

Commenter

Man Ip U Later

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 10:40AM

"Makes things very hard for day traders like myself, when some stocks unexpectedly crash 10%"

Day trading has less than a 50% chance of making money given that daily movements are random and you have to pay brokerage.

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 10:33AM

This is Freehills calling.

We would urgently like your testimony in defence of our victimized DJ directors. We wholeheartedly agree share price movements are completely random - on whatever time scale is chosen.

You would be the perfect man to demonstrate thus.

Commenter

DJ Lawyer

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:35AM

Particularly on an intra-day basis, it is totally random. A measly quarterly sales report can surely have zero influence on a share price, as the sagely DJ chairman has suggested. We look forward to your kind assistance

Commenter

DJ lawyer

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 11:43AM

Even cheats who lose money trading on inside information will be prosecuted and many have been.

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 12:06PM

Todays market mover is Carl Icahn

Commenter

Tom Waterhouse

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 10:30AM

Today carl .. 2moro allan and his virtual gifts!

Commenter

humpty dumpty

Location

fries?

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 10:40AM

Gee someone's upset with mod. He he....

Commenter

Poo bear

Location

@sobbing in Christopher robin's bed

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 10:12AM

"of a stock bubble are rising in the US"

Really? Just because asset prices are totally divorced from earnings? I'm shocked!

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 10:11AM

Poor ole Carl, badly burnt by Apple.

Commenter

Allan

Location

Prahran

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 10:02AM

Really? I've read that his average buy price was $460.

Commenter

TP

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 2:55PM

I think Carl Icahn has finally verbalised what many already knew but dare not speak. There are no earnings growth just very low rates. Buy Australian Banks? Me don't think so. Correction is imminent...Defaults guaranteed.

Really? You think there may be a possibility that Carl placed his shorts first, then made his comments? Think about it.

Commenter

bearly_there

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 10:35AM

This just shows that the reserves globally are doing their job whilst things are soft. It is a shame that Labor didn't see how big this whole thing is and actually listened to the Libs on economic management. You can't just spend your way out of a hole in 6 months. I'd hate to see these MP's personal credit card debt.

Commenter

meh

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 12:00PM

As long as yields are higher than bank interest, then people will still stick their money into shares, where else are you going to stick it......Sydney housing ?

This is especially true for OS markets, and close to zero bank rates.

Commenter

Oracle

Location

2233

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 1:35PM

No doubt Carl Icahn placed a lot of shorts prior to making his comments, and plans to go long as soon as the market drops in reaction to them.

Commenter

X

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 9:35AM

Of course he did...why would he make those remarks otherwise??

Thank goodness we don't have anyone BIG doing the same to the ASX here in Oz....or do we??

Commenter

mirage

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 9:54AM

Trouble is, the ASX tends to follow other markets down, but not up.

Makes things very hard for day traders like myself, when some stocks unexpectedly crash 10% in one day.on an otherwise-upward trend. Doubly so, when Commsec doesn't allow shorting.

Commenter

X

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 9:58AM

Well it seems he has taken a bit of a bath in Apple and thus is talking them up. I see Apple heading much lower personally. Samsung, Sony etc are catching up very fast and offering the same/similar products for half the price.

Commenter

meh

Location

Date and time

November 19, 2013, 10:04AM

i welcome the comments.no banks, no party!..no asx...let these bad boys drop for a few weeks, then jump back in big...too easy.