It seems as though "Cracker" is a word often used by whites to have as almost an equalizer for the word "Nigger"...Despite the value each word holds...If Blacks weren't calling eachother "nigger" or "nigga" (both the same), do you really think whites would be referring to themselves as "crackas?"...The root of the word you posted is right on target...But you see that it is kind of like the "response to nigger" be it crossing races or used internally...I cannot somehow think when sage says "cracker", subtly "nigger" is not implied...The caidence and delivery used is much like it...SHOOT I'm trying to come across here...Even if you disagree, is my POINT clear?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:18 pm

MF TOON

Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 3611
Location: la planète sauvage

when used out of context in a subjective way, these words are deprived of their signifigance which is in essence why they are being passed around apathetically. its almost a justification or a repressed motive in that the irony of a black person calling another black person "nigger" neutralizes the connotation that these words once possessed and redirects that sense of ascendancy in which the word originally adapted out of negative function.

Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:18 pm

futuristxen

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19377
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt

Reggie wrote:

futuristxen wrote: White people should shut the fuck up, because they don't know a damn thing about discrimination based upon skin color. I say this as a white person, who has never had to deal with one iota of the racism that any of my black friends have had to deal with.

No one else finds this funny? I think my office is lacking in oxygen because this made me laugh out loud.

wait. why is it funny? are we laughing at me or with me?

we're laughing at me, aren't we.

damnit.

Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:19 pm

Reggie

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5766
Location: Queens, NYC

Doctrine wrote: Sorry if I'm not clear future...

It seems as though "Cracker" is a word often used by whites to have as almost an equalizer for the word "Nigger"...Despite the value each word holds...If Blacks weren't calling eachother "nigger" or "nigga" (both the same), do you really think whites would be referring to themselves as "crackas?"...The root of the word you posted is right on target...But you see that it is kind of like the "response to nigger" be it crossing races or used internally...I cannot somehow think when sage says "cracker", subtly "nigger" is not implied...The caidence and delivery used is much like it...SHOOT I'm trying to come across here...Even if you disagree, is my POINT clear?

I see what you are saying now, I misunderstood. I disagree, though, I think this is true in some cases but not every one. Just like when women call each other "bitch", it's not in refutation of anything but the misogyny levied against them, IF that.

Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:20 pm

Dee

Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872

Reggie wrote:

futuristxen wrote: White people should shut the fuck up, because they don't know a damn thing about discrimination based upon skin color. I say this as a white person, who has never had to deal with one iota of the racism that any of my black friends have had to deal with.

No one else finds this funny? I think my office is lacking in oxygen because this made me laugh out loud.

I thought it was funny, although I find the term "shut up" as used here to be irritating.
If there's one thing white people should NOT be doing about racism, its shutting up.
We need to talk about this shit. Fer serious.

Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:37 pm

Beep

Joined: 06 Dec 2002
Posts: 599

Re: I don't really need you cracker!

Doctrine wrote: To me I am bugged and minorly offended when Sage or anyone else uses the word "cracker"...Because there is a subtle suggestion of "nigger"...It's like this...He shouts "what you wanna do, stay high or lay low? All my crackers say, yee ha! my pimps say HO!"...Now I think not Sage Francis to be racist, but I am offended when cracker is used because it is like he is saying 'nigga' anyway beacause "cracka" was used as the substitute...It's like I know what he is getting at, he wants to say it but can't..."I don't need you, I don't really need you cracka", I feel the same in this line...Ultimatley he is saying "nigger" but it is masked with the word "cracker"...The use of 'cracker' implies 'nigger' to me which has obviously deeper roots and offends me...I don't know how well my point got across, anyone feel me on this? Thoughts?

Damn your white cracker

Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:00 pm

duck_shoe

Joined: 15 Sep 2002
Posts: 1362
Location: Right here, fool.

Re: I don't really need you cracker!

Doctrine wrote: To me I am bugged and minorly offended when Sage or anyone else uses the word "cracker"...Because there is a subtle suggestion of "nigger"...It's like this...He shouts "what you wanna do, stay high or lay low? All my crackers say, yee ha! my pimps say HO!"...Now I think not Sage Francis to be racist, but I am offended when cracker is used because it is like he is saying 'nigga' anyway beacause "cracka" was used as the substitute...It's like I know what he is getting at, he wants to say it but can't..."I don't need you, I don't really need you cracka", I feel the same in this line...Ultimatley he is saying "nigger" but it is masked with the word "cracker"...The use of 'cracker' implies 'nigger' to me which has obviously deeper roots and offends me...I don't know how well my point got across, anyone feel me on this? Thoughts?

Here's my thought....people spend too much time looking for reasons to be offended.

Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:02 pm

Awww Ðämn

Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 2511
Location: barbary coast

you are confused

Doctrine, aren't you the same cat that fetishsized white power records and asked on this here forum where you can find them?

Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:05 pm

Doctrine

Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 4626
Location: ATL, Livin' Swell

Sure was...I wanted those records to see if the content was hate or if the content was of other matter just made by people with hate...Plus it would make for some good samples on a song I wanted to make...

first i dont think people should use iether term. i dont think cracker implies niger. i think when iether term is used it implies that the these people r significantly different because of there skin color. thats just wrong.

and someone said white people dont face any racism. thats dead fuckin wrong. around my school it is considerd a horrible insult to be called whit by some. and all the stereotypes are instantly thrust upon the white kids. it is no where near what some blacks have had to face in the past. (in compareson it like an itchy bug bite instead of being beaten over the head with a 2x4 after being rundown by truck) its more just annoying but it still exists.

Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:36 pm

kese

Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 5454

damn, never fuck with a female, they remember everything....
i'd need notebooks to remember all the stuff they do, plus an indexing system on top of that...here's to the memories...

Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:37 pm

Jesse

Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 6165
Location: privileged homeless

Cracker, for starters, does not derive from "whip cracker". Indeed, that position of dominance is the opposite of what is implied - "cracker" is a very old pejorative used to denote "white trash" in the south.

I get what doctrine is saying - like how if a dude says "motherfucker" in a song and it gets played on the radio and they edit it with a beep, he's still SAYING motherfucker, right? So the idea is that using "cracker" to euphemize "nigga" in rap lyrics implies the latter term? Well, in his sesquipedalien post MF Toon dealt with this perfectly - in rap, nigga just simply doesn't mean nigger anymore. We're all still uncomfortable with the derivation, so no-one wants a white person to say it, but the pejorative intent is stripped away - our discomfort is almost entirely based on the phonetic remnants of the slur.

Strip those away, and what's the problem? Say a different word, mean the same thing... "peoples"... all good, right?

I mean, not that I ever liked the term cracker or want to hear anyone say it in a rhyme, white or black, but I'm just saying it's not what you say it is.

Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:56 pm

kese

Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 5454

Samtron wrote: first i dont think people should use iether term. i dont think cracker implies niger. i think when iether term is used it implies that the these people r significantly different because of there skin color. thats just wrong.

and someone said white people dont face any racism. thats dead fuckin wrong. around my school it is considerd a horrible insult to be called whit by some. and all the stereotypes are instantly thrust upon the white kids. it is no where near what some blacks have had to face in the past. (in compareson it like an itchy bug bite instead of being beaten over the head with a 2x4 after being rundown by truck) its more just annoying but it still exists.

the past? how about being dragged to death chained up to a truck a few years ago? any white person who complains about racism is retarded, unless it's violent, but i don't think i've heard much about black supremacist groups funded by the government, lyncing whites wholesale...
racism is fucked any way you put it..

but doctrine, i don't think sage was being racist or was substituting the word "cracka" for "nigga", he was most likely just referring to his white "friends", that the song was about. you're reading too far into it. it get what your getting at though, and it would seem like a good point, but it's taken out of context in this instance, it wasn't used as a genral statement to all white people, but as a term possibly loaded with negative connotation to people that were close to him.."friends" in his life that he didn't need anymore. "i don't need you cracka".. but by no means was he saying he doesn't need black people in his life, and i don't think that he was even close to thinking of the word "nigga" when he decided to use the word "cracka".

i do think it would be stupid if "cracka" would become common slang between whites though, not only would it be a concious response to black people using "nigga" as a term of endearment, but it would also carry the superior connotation over "nigga" that it carried when these terms were used in the days of slavery. and fuck that. I personally think that the use of the word "nigga" has been earned by black people, seeing as how it has been loaded with negative meaning for such a long time, it's meaning should be changed (and it's possible to do so), to where it becomes a word with positive connotation, where nigga= king (or whatever else), rewrite history, why not? people can evolve and words can too. but fuck any white person refering to themselves or their buddies to a slave master, i'm not going along with that for a second.

Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:05 pm

Rise Above 42

Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 53

The fact that we are still discussing this in 2003 is ridiculous why can't everyone grow up? not just people here everyone, i know there are stupid fucks everywhere but still this is outta hand

Last edited by Rise Above 42 on Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:07 pm

kese

Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 5454

jesse i always thought the term "cracker" derived from whip cracker, and then became a synonym for white trash..

Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:08 pm

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