Amos Quito:Any Pie Left: This is hardly a blip to South Korea. But it is an incredibly damaging thing for the North to do to itself; losing the currency it was generating, and the business. When their people eventually rise up against their government, it is going to be more bloody than anything seen in the last 100 years, I promise.

Fortunately for Kim Jong Un, (Un-fortunately?) the citizens of North Korea are unarmed, and weak from hunger.

Guess who will be doing most of the bleeding?

Those civilians will probably try to walk to the nearest border.

I have a coworker from Beijing who says that nork refugees in china are already a problem of some political sensitivity. There are enough that you notice 'em. More coming over the border every day for years. And a lot of them are operating food carts and that sort of thing.

They probably adjust better to life in china than they would adjust to life in south korea. the freedom and standard of living in south korea would blow their minds.

The real problem is, that this is about the last action that he can take that doesn't involve a use of force. I mean he is threatening nuclear attack (that he probably can't carry out), he has shut off lines of communication, he has stated his forces are on alert (no real sign of increased activity), reactivated a shutdown reactors contrary to previous agreements, and now shutting down one of his only means of gaining hard currency for the luxury items his regime needs to keep leadership happy. There is basicly nothing else he can do to throw a temper tantrum that won't put someone at risk of losing their life. Artillery attacks, naval skirmishes, terrorist strikes are just about the only thing left he can use. If this doesn't achieve his goal of solidifying his rule, the next thing we may see is something that results in damage, injuries, and death.

davidphogan:Does China really want to risk triggering WW3, or do they want to send us a bill for helping them "nation build" North Korea?

Wait... This might not be a bad idea. The US gets cheap Chinese labor, the Chinese get employment without building more empty skyscrapers, the South Koreans get a kind-of reunified peninsula (minus all those the Chinese need to borrow), North Korea gets rebuilt from scratch, and if we really want to we can tack on a good 5-10 year war with China to thin out the ranks of healthy young males on both sides and get the economy out of this funk.

Since I'm over 30, I'm not sure if this is a terrible idea or a good one.

This is hardly a blip to South Korea. But it is an incredibly damaging thing for the North to do to itself; losing the currency it was generating, and the business. When their people eventually rise up against their government, it is going to be more bloody than anything seen in the last 100 years, I promise.

MyKingdomForYourHorse:dittybopper: The only way they could significantly hamper US/ROK operations is through guerrilla warfare, but that is destined to fail, and fail badly if they depend on it, because the South Koreans aren't going to help them, and will rat them out at the earliest opportunity. Just ask Che Guevara how hard it is to mount a guerrilla campaign unsupported by the locals. In fact, that's what lead to the downfall of Al Qaeda in Iraq: We didn't really defeat them in a military sense, we co-opted the local leaders against them.

I tend to think that this is one of those rare moments where whoever steps in and flattens NK military would actually be welcomed as liberators by the civilian population.

Well, I was thinking of it in terms of DPRK units south of the DMZ.

As for being welcomed as liberators? I'm less optimistic than you. It's almost a cliche that you don't intervene between a man beating his wife because they will *BOTH* be against you.

Consider this: You've been raised to believe X. It was taught in all the schools, it was in all the media you ever saw, and it was repeated by everyone around you. No alternatives were ever mentioned except in the context of being evil. You fear anything else, to the point where it's a reflex to believe X.

Then, all of a sudden, after a short but bloody war that killed friends and relatives, you're now told that X is a complete lie by strangers who don't look or talk like you. You don't see any real evidence of this, though: You still live in the same valley as before, tending the same fields. What are you going to believe?

dittybopper:The only way they could significantly hamper US/ROK operations is through guerrilla warfare, but that is destined to fail, and fail badly if they depend on it, because the South Koreans aren't going to help them, and will rat them out at the earliest opportunity. Just ask Che Guevara how hard it is to mount a guerrilla campaign unsupported by the locals. In fact, that's what lead to the downfall of Al Qaeda in Iraq: We didn't really defeat them in a military sense, we co-opted the local leaders against them.

I tend to think that this is one of those rare moments where whoever steps in and flattens NK military would actually be welcomed as liberators by the civilian population.

The KCNA said this morning that Kim Jong Un is to issue a "final order," to end North Korea's "long-standing history of showdown with the U.S."

"The aggressors and provocateurs will face a disgraceful ruin in the final battle [for reunification] to be started soon, and the great Korean nation will greet the bright day of national reunification,"LINK

If dumb becomes dumber, I've got a pair of silk pantyhose and a fifth of Jack that says China will slap down Lil Kim in order to keep the US from entering into a shooting war. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if this is just NK's way of negotiating for humanitarian aid from China.

Daedalus27:I agree with that assessment assuming you have enough assets to do the job. It isn't clear that the US/SK has enough assets deployed to stop the NK forces before they reach Seoul and can inflict catastrophic damage. Assuming every bomb dropped, every missile hits, we may not have enough fired quick enough to stop the forces before they reach and destroy significant South Korean assets. Almost every scenario has the NK army being destroyed given enough time. The problem is that victory costs South Korea their capital and large amounts of destruction in the surrounding areas which is a massive cost coupled with the required economic support that North Korea will require with the defeat and collapse. Defeating North Korea isn't the real issue, it is the costs involved with doing so.

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective: No one thinks the US or South Korea is going to invade the North, starting a war. If a war starts, it will be because of the North.

An actual armored assault on the south by the north, is there a word stronger than annihilation? We were able to drive the north korean army within miles of the Chinese border, and ground the Chinese army into a standstill on the 38th parallel.

The Chinese don't appear to in any mood to help this time, and our technology has improved, oh just a tad, since 1953. Annihilation isn't really a strong enough word for what would to a DPRK armored assault on the south.

A combined-arms attack on an enemy that has complete control of the air, when said enemy has things like A-10 warthogs, Apaches, AC130s, and heavy bombers armed with GPS guided 2000 pound bombs, and anti-armor cluster bombs isn't a "combined arms attack" it's mass suicide.

Heck even by 1953 the idea of human wave attacks against troops dug in with kit like the Quad 50 kinda lost their allure.

dittybopper:Except it won't be immediate for most. Even when it does arrive, it will be viewed with suspicion. Imperialist plot to poison Koreans and wipe out the ideology of Juche.

You just don't get how we are viewed over there. People run away when they see someone who looks American because they are the bad guys in all of their films.

Faster than you think, and the north is not as hermetically sealed as you might think. There are strangle holds regarding information on the center of the small nation, but in the hinterlands and borders along SK and China the information is start to flow pretty freely.

MyKingdomForYourHorse:dittybopper: Then, all of a sudden, after a short but bloody war that killed friends and relatives, you're now told that X is a complete lie by strangers who don't look or talk like you. You don't see any real evidence of this, though: You still live in the same valley as before, tending the same fields. What are you going to believe?

Except this time the one telling you something different comes bearing gifts of food, something you haven't seen in regular supply for 30 years.

The dinner table has a funny way of changing peoples hearts and minds

Except it won't be immediate for most. Even when it does arrive, it will be viewed with suspicion. Imperialist plot to poison Koreans and wipe out the ideology of Juche.

dittybopper:Then, all of a sudden, after a short but bloody war that killed friends and relatives, you're now told that X is a complete lie by strangers who don't look or talk like you. You don't see any real evidence of this, though: You still live in the same valley as before, tending the same fields. What are you going to believe?

Except this time the one telling you something different comes bearing gifts of food, something you haven't seen in regular supply for 30 years.

Problem is, it doesn't take all that much command-and-control to say "march south, stop when you hit ocean, and we'll shoot you for treason if you retreat."

I don't think that's the plan. I think the plan would be for a UN charter allowing the obliteration of NK forces, mostly through US air superiority and Naval forces, with SK along for the ride and then China mobilizing forces to come in under UN Charter to 'peace keep' the situation.

Evil Twin Skippy:All Arleigh Burkes AND all of the Ticonderoga Class cruisers have Aegis. The superstructure and electrical systems of both classes of ship are built around the radar array. It's just a question of which version of Aegis is installed. The Cruisers have the more powerful platform. The Destroyers tend to have the more up-to-date block upgrades.

Not all of the Ticonderoga class cruisers were built with the Vertical Launch System (VLS). Those that weren't have since been retired. The Navy actually refers to the remaining cruisers as CG-52 (Bunker Hill) class. That may be what people are confusing the issue with.

What I hope someone in NK realizes, before a lot of innocent people get killed, is while their ability to wage war has increased incrementally since 1950, ours has increased exponentially. This wouldn't be a counterinsurgency brush war, this would be a force on force repulsion of a mechanized assault, something we've been practicing for the last 60 years

I keep hearing this brought up: "KJU went to school in Switzerland, so he probably knows what's really up."

We don't know that. We don't know anything about him. It's quite possible for the son of a paranoid dictator to have an extremely sheltered, controlled experience at a secluded private Swiss boarding school where he was probably constantly watched by NK agents. We have no idea what, if any, media or Western ideas he was exposed do. No one has come out and given an interview and said, "yeah I went to school with him, and he was a pretty cool bloke and we'd take the train to Amsterdam on the weekends and drop acid."

I didn't say we NEVER win (you could bring up Grenada, too, that hard-fought battle against a seemingly invincible enemy). I said we aren't known for it.

Yeah, but a conflict with North Korea would, at least initially, be state-on-state, military-on-military, which we are EXCEEDINGLY good at. So long as we leave it to the Koreans and the Chinese to handle the aftermath on the ground, and limit our involvement to protecting our allies and ourselves, then I'm confident the US military could utterly destory the North Korean military.

PunGent:Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: bluorangefyre: OK explain this in simple terms: WOPR level bad or Cuban Missile Crisis bad? Or will this thing be over just as soon as we bomb Pyongyang and release the vipers at the DMZ?

This would not be a boots-on-the-ground war, at least not many American boots. Our air superiority would wipe out all of their command-and-control on day one, then the SK army goes in to maintain order. Very few American lives at risk.

That's the plan.

Problem is, it doesn't take all that much command-and-control to say "march south, stop when you hit ocean, and we'll shoot you for treason if you retreat."

At that point, you're not dealing with a coherent military structure, but essentially independent armed mobs. Something like that can be defeated in detail.

Korea: Tie . . .only on the grounds we didn't want to escalate to WW III, which is what winning would have required due to Chinese intervention.

Vietnam: Loss. . .only on the grounds that we didn't want to escalate to WW III, which is what winning would have required due to Soviet intervention. The entire Southeast Asia scenario in the late 60's and early '70's was a geopolitical mess.

Grenada: Overwhelming US win.

Panama: Overwhelming US win.

First Gulf War: Overwhelming US win. Iraq was the 4th largest army in the world, after an air war lasting less than a month, and a ground war of less than 100 hours they were totally routed and broken.

Iraq: US win. Overwhelming military win in the initial phase. Occupation was difficult, but we pulled it out with the "surge". What else could we do? Occupy them forever until they were our BFF's? The war itself was a mistake, but it would be a lie to say we lost it.

Afghanistan: In progress, but US is winning. Same as Iraq, initial overwhelming US military win. Long, drawn out occupation. Lot of problems with Pakistan being very two-faced towards us, lot of trouble getting the locals on our side, but over time we've come to largely be seen as the lesser of two evils by many/most of the Afghanis (we are foreign invaders, but the Taliban are even worse, so they want the Taliban dealt with and us gone). We're just trying to make sure the Taliban don't immediately reconquer the country when we leave.

Note that we're really good at winning outright shooting wars. We have NEVER lost a straight-out no-holds-barred shooting war. We only lose if we're holding back because we don't want to escalate. Also, occupation is helluva hard for a modern army because unless you're willing to commit atrocities and war crimes it's very hard to get the locals on your side and it can take a long time.

With Best Korea, we've got South Korea on our side to help. In a Second Korean War, it's a pretty safe bet that South Koreans would be doing a LOT of the postwar occupation work for us, which takes a lot of pressure off us.

I'm getting tired of the media's war-boner. Best Korea has a giant temper tantrum every three years or so and threatens to turn the imperialist dogs into charcoal, and then relent after the imperialists give them some pittance of aid (which they surely spin as tribute). Imagine if CNN didn't bother to carry all the "COULD IT BE WAR??" "WHY IS EVERYONE SCARED OF THE NORKS?" "LET'S LOOK AT WHAT TWITTER SAYS!" stories.

Any Pie Left:This is hardly a blip to South Korea. But it is an incredibly damaging thing for the North to do to itself; losing the currency it was generating, and the business. When their people eventually rise up against their government, it is going to be more bloody than anything seen in the last 100 years, I promise.

HAHA! That's as likely to happen as Americans rising up against Jesus. Ain't gonna happen.

ontariolightning:SEOUL, April 3 (Yonhap) -- Seoul's defense chief said Wednesday the military is considering all available options, including possible military action, to ensure the safety of the hundreds of South Koreans who remain in the North's border town of Kaesong after the communist state cut off access to a joint industrial complex there.Early Wednesday, Pyongyang banned South Korean workers from entering the inter-Korean industrial park in Kaesong, only allowing South Koreans currently staying in the border town to return home.

If that is factual and they choose that option, this will get grim quickly.

Constitutional monarchies are kind of a weird situation. Usually in a constitutional monarchy, state sovereignty is still enshrined in the position of the crown, but actual administrative authority is given to a parliamentary-type government. In the past, constitutional monarchies gave the sovereign a lot more executive power and the constitution basically served as a popular brake on royal excess, forming a contract between the sovereign and his subjects. I think there are a couple of countries where the monarchy has been stripped of its sovereign powers, so technically those states would be republics and the monarch would only hold a ceremonial title.

Essentially in the constitutional monarchy, the monarch continues to "be" the state, but the right to rule derives from the authority of the constitution and/or the consent of the people, rather than divine right/right of conquest. At least that's how I understand it.

In any case, the current North Korean constitution doesn't invest sovereignty in a single person, so it would still have to be abolished/rewritten for KJU to be a proper monarch.

meat0918:jpo2269: Sadly, it seems as if Un is hell bent on getting his arse kicked. Hopefully he wakes up prior to crossing the line of no return... Unfortunately I am not very optimistic.

Maybe that's the point.

Maybe he doesn't want to be Dear Leader, but the real powers in the country need their figure head to continue to live like kings.

I've been saying that since the start. About the only way Kim can stop being Son of Dear Leader AND still keep his fat head on his mushy neck AND not have to worry about any prison time anywhere in the Far East is to lose a war to America.

As it stands, Kim Jong-Un is not personally responsible for any of the myriad atrocities Daddy Dearest committed; but he IS under the thumbs of a whole lot of guys who are (the generals and career pols who Daddy put in power). If Kim tries to undo the sins of the former regime and repudiate Juche, the generals can easily arrange for him to have a tragic accident, a lavish state funeral, and replace him with some handy puppet (Kim has two other legitimate brothers, and who knows how many bastard Kims are waiting in the wings). OTOH, if the generals get too uppity, Kim can threaten them with The Hague's courts--but to do that, he'd have to lose a war.

Kim may be a fat retarded mushroom; but he did go to school in Switzerland, he has to know there is no way in hell he can survive a war even with S. Korea and Japan, much less China or America. And he'd probably just as soon enjoy the pleasures of Western life first hand, as have them imported like Daddy Dearest did. But, he was obviously pretty heavily indoctrinated during the last ten years; and who knows, he may even like his people (stranger things have happened to a dictator). Best solution: Lose a war from a position of strength.

His generals have all grown up with Kim Jong-Il (and maybe even the REAL Kim, Kim Il-Sung), and probably believe all the saber-rattling crap. So they go along with the okey-doke, and start their war with South Korea. When it's obvious they're going to lose badly, Kim starts negotiations with the US. He gives up all his generals for trial for various crimes against humanity, agrees to a genuine peace with S. Korea, and opens the border, in exchange for keeping his fat head above his neck. Now he's safe from the Juche generals, the North Koreans get to eat again for the first time in 50 years, China is out of the loop without having to confront America across the 38th parallel, and the only real problem becomes how do we get all the land mines out of the DMZ.

Kim has to at least try to appease his generals if he wants to stay alive, hence the war talk. But it can't be coincidence that he actually allowed an American into his office a week before all this nonsense started, either. Crazy like a fox, is what I'm thinking.

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: North Korea is, organizationally speaking, a communist republic and the Kims serve as president-for-life

And in actual fact, the position of General Secretary or whatever the official title of Dear Leader is, at this point is probably just a figurehead that serves to legitimize a military junta that actually runs the country's day-to-day affairs. I doubt KJU has any real authority over anyone beyond his housekeeping staff.

The US has to be at war somewhere in order to prop up the economy. After all, we have a half million active duty military personnel, and we can't just start folding those folks into the economy back home, can we? Better to take on Best Korea than Pakistan, amirite?!

The reason this is a big deal, isn't because it was some sort of metaphorical olive branch between North-South Korea. The reason that it is a big deal, is because South Korea built the industrial complex at Kaesong. What has effectively happened, at least temporarily, is that North Korea has seized South Korean assets. Hyundai industries and the like built the whole damn place. That is their machinery, their tooling, their factories. Lot of capital they invested there, albeit for reasons of gaining an economic advantage by employing people at slave wages. The South Koreans built the place in the first place because they could pay North Koreans 1/4 the price they would pay a Chinese person to produce textiles and the like.

/if this remains permanently closed, it is akin to Fidel seizing American enterprises in Cuba. Somewhat a military posturing gesture, but more of a dickish-communist gesture, "I own your shiat now".

bluorangefyre:OK explain this in simple terms: WOPR level bad or Cuban Missile Crisis bad? Or will this thing be over just as soon as we bomb Pyongyang and release the vipers at the DMZ?

This would not be a boots-on-the-ground war, at least not many American boots. Our air superiority would wipe out all of their command-and-control on day one, then the SK army goes in to maintain order. Very few American lives at risk.

We win wars like a boss. It's the occupation we suck at. How long did Saddam's government hold out? How long did the Taliban have control of anything more than caves and remote villages? I'm not advocating war but don't get the two things confused. North Korea has what we kill best, obsolete Russian cold war crap.

For those who are saying a war with NK will be over and done within x amount of days....how many wars play out like that? Our military is already stretched. I don't see how you could open up a 3rd front with what we have, guys serving how many rotations to patrol the deserts of Afghanistan? Then what, a draft? Seriously, we would be in up to our armpits if NK goes south.

I don't know. What I do know is that photo. That photo is as powerful as the Vietnam photos of the officer pulling the trigger and the girl that had the skin falling off of her... Or the Nazi concentration camp photos in WWII.

This is the photo to show America that there is a humanitarian reason to end the status quo in NK to justify action. Not only does NK try to bully the United States, NK bullies their own children.

The world should speak to NK in a united voice. Now. Right the fark now.

I read on FARK that the U.N. refonted their strongly worded letter to NK from Comic Sans to Times New Roman.

I don't know. What I do know is that photo. That photo is as powerful as the Vietnam photos of the officer pulling the trigger and the girl that had the skin falling off of her... Or the Nazi concentration camp photos in WWII.

This is the photo to show America that there is a humanitarian reason to end the status quo in NK to justify action. Not only does NK try to bully the United States, NK bullies their own children.

The world should speak to NK in a united voice. Now. Right the fark now.

Just Another OC Homeless Guy:Benevolent Misanthrope: ontariolightning: BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?I think the game just got interesting.

meh. They've closed it down multiple times before.

Yeah, this. The North Koreans are assholes, but they're not suicidal. They'll just continue to bluster and threaten, like a bully in an empty schoolyard. But also like a bully, they won't throw a punch against anyone who could ever possibly fight back.

I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen? Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning. My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone. Again.

SK would take a whole bunch of hurt, then rally and clean the NK clock.

Kids' Taekwondo teacher is South Korean, and I used to talk to him about this. Last time we discussed it was when they lobbed a couple of artillery shells. He just shrugged his shoulders and said that they mainly ignore what goes on up North. This time does feel a little different, but haven't had a chance to talk to him yet. I'm guessing some more ugly looks and words, maybe a few bullets or shells, but that will be about it. They maybe total jackasses, but they have to know they will get their asses kicked worse than Duke did Sunday. Exactly what they are trying to accomplish or gain, I have no clue, but an all out war will be an absolute shock.

Amos Quito:Any Pie Left: This is hardly a blip to South Korea. But it is an incredibly damaging thing for the North to do to itself; losing the currency it was generating, and the business. When their people eventually rise up against their government, it is going to be more bloody than anything seen in the last 100 years, I promise.

Fortunately for Kim Jong Un, (Un-fortunately?) the citizens of North Korea are unarmed, and weak from hunger.

Allen262:Asa Phelps: Amos Quito: Any Pie Left: This is hardly a blip to South Korea. But it is an incredibly damaging thing for the North to do to itself; losing the currency it was generating, and the business. When their people eventually rise up against their government, it is going to be more bloody than anything seen in the last 100 years, I promise.

Fortunately for Kim Jong Un, (Un-fortunately?) the citizens of North Korea are unarmed, and weak from hunger.

Guess who will be doing most of the bleeding?

Those civilians will probably try to walk to the nearest border.

I have a coworker from Beijing who says that nork refugees in china are already a problem of some political sensitivity. There are enough that you notice 'em. More coming over the border every day for years. And a lot of them are operating food carts and that sort of thing.

They probably adjust better to life in china than they would adjust to life in south korea. the freedom and standard of living in south korea would blow their minds.

So they are the Mexicans of China?

Pretty much.

Also, did you know that Han chinese are the most racist people on earth?

I mean sure they think that black people are magical, but that just means they're weird about their racism.

I remember i was talking to chuck one day and asked what chinese buffet he considers the best. He told me Golden Buffet. I asked him about Ho-Ho Gourmet - said that i had heard that it was pretty good.

And chuck said: "Well, it is pretty good, but the man who owns it, he is from hong kong, so it is not really chinese."

/yes, his real name is not chuck//That was over a year ago, New Golden Dragon is now the best///Yes, chinese people like chinese buffets too.

davidphogan:Benevolent Misanthrope: I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen? Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning. My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone. Again.

Does China really want to risk triggering WW3, or do they want to send us a bill for helping them "nation build" North Korea?

What has China got anything to do with anything? again most folks are assuming China has much influence on NK when in reality NK pretty much do their own thing and China AT BEST can only persuade them to chill the F out which they have done on numerous oacasion to no avail.

Seriously. Our grandchildren are going to learn an eccentric, former basketball-player started WWIII?

True, Rodman is a low grade moron, but somehow I don't think NK vs US these days is anywhere near WW3. First, and foremost, neither China nor Russia care what happens to NK, as opposed to the old days. They want it to be taken care of quickly. If you recall, we were hopscotching through NK last time until China decided to get involved. I don't think they are going to care this time.

NK does not have to the capacity to accurately aim or project their one of two dud atomics; therefore, those things aren't coming our way. They do have tactical capability, SK may take a little hit. Within the first few hours of an exchange, NK would no longer be able to place anything in the air, which means their armor would be sitting ducks.

After killing the fat boy and his family, then eliminating all of the high hats in the military, the rest of the population will become fair docile. They have been trained to be docile.

Better to get this over with now, rather than later when some other Pakistani yahoo sells them more nuclear tech.

duenor:I've been telling everyone this.... chubby kim is being led with a lot of bowing and scraping right into a big pile of poop.

Honestly, with the way this sounds I have a sneaking suspicion Jong-un is a dead man walking at this point. I half-suspect he'll end up assassinated in a Chinese-backed coup at the hands of younger North Korean military officers.

doglover:Un has been abroad. He knows the score. I bet he wants out as much as anyone else. Starting a bad war might be the best way to get deposed and be able to flee the country.

Yeah. He hasn't been "in power" for very long. But it's worth noting that he hasn't, since his father's death, visited China (AFAIK), as his father and granddaddy did from time to time. He may not be permitted to, on the worry that he'd go all "I'm going to (Tokyo) Disneyland!" on them.

MaudlinMutantMollusk:Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why any South Korean would enter North Korean controlled territory. You KNOW there's a chance of being killed or held hostage.

Officials have also confirmed that the USS John McCain, an Aegis-class destroyer capable of intercepting missiles, has been positioned off the Korean peninsula.

Man, pet peeve of mine. There's no such thing as an Aegis-class destroyer. Aegis is a system, not a ship class.

I got a bigger problem with naming a ship after John McCain

/that sucker is gonna get captured for sure

It's named after his dad, I think.

That would make more sense, seeing as how they don't typically name ships after live, sitting office holders

/not nearly as funny, though//looking for a deal on a good used sarcasm detector?

It was named after both his father and grandfather, actually. McCain is John McCain the III. His father/grandfather actually had pretty impressive / decorated careers.

I wish there was someone who could pull this fat fark Un aside and say "you know how the world is farked up right now? There are a lot of farkheads in the world that make it that way. Don't be one of them, you farking little shiat. You're not a God. God wouldn't be a fat little shiat who hangs out with Dennis Rodman for fark's sake. Get your shiat together."

Benevolent Misanthrope:Yeah, this. The North Koreans are assholes, but they're not suicidal. They'll just continue to bluster and threaten, like a bully in an empty schoolyard. But also like a bully, they won't throw a punch against anyone who could ever possibly fight back.

I'm not so sure about that. I think they'll make the same mistake the Germans did (twice) and cross the line, assuming the enemy won't fight back. I predict in the coming days that NK will shell some remote island, or shoot at (but miss) a SK plane or vessel, and they'll expect to get away with it. But now that SK has told its military "do what you need to, and ignore the political ramifications" it could escalate quickly and catch NK off guard.

Well, one thing that this shows is that the road to actual conflict is a surprisingly long one. If the situation escalates into a shooting war, it won't be much of a surprise.

That said, there should be a large amount of tension in the NK high command right now. At some point the NK military will either decide to take out the Kim or play along until the endgame. I wonder what they'll do?

China could stop this if they wanted to badly enough, this has been the case since the original war. But Derp Korea would be very expensive for the Chinese to absorb, in money and manpower, for little return. The back-channel negotiations are probably going strong already, meanwhile, North's people are starving, they don't even get the warm cups of snow like we Americans do.

The North's situation is not something that can last; history proves that. But when it eventually goes, it will go on the most epic scale anyone has seen since the third century. The collateral damage will be worldwide and massive.

duenor:ACunningPlan: meat0918: jpo2269: Sadly, it seems as if Un is hell bent on getting his arse kicked. Hopefully he wakes up prior to crossing the line of no return... Unfortunately I am not very optimistic.

Maybe that's the point.

Maybe he doesn't want to be Dear Leader, but the real powers in the country need their figure head to continue to live like kings.

That's very possible. Or maybe the military are fed up with the dynasty and are taking advantage of his youth by "advising" him to do stupid stuff. They could be hoping someone will intervene, whoop Kimmy boy's ass & leave a nice power vacuum for them to fill; I bet they're envious of the lifestyles of their equivalents over in China?

I've been telling everyone this.... chubby kim is being led with a lot of bowing and scraping right into a big pile of poop.

Un has been abroad. He knows the score. I bet he wants out as much as anyone else. Starting a bad war might be the best way to get deposed and be able to flee the country.

ACunningPlan:meat0918: jpo2269: Sadly, it seems as if Un is hell bent on getting his arse kicked. Hopefully he wakes up prior to crossing the line of no return... Unfortunately I am not very optimistic.

Maybe that's the point.

Maybe he doesn't want to be Dear Leader, but the real powers in the country need their figure head to continue to live like kings.

That's very possible. Or maybe the military are fed up with the dynasty and are taking advantage of his youth by "advising" him to do stupid stuff. They could be hoping someone will intervene, whoop Kimmy boy's ass & leave a nice power vacuum for them to fill; I bet they're envious of the lifestyles of their equivalents over in China?

I've been telling everyone this.... chubby kim is being led with a lot of bowing and scraping right into a big pile of poop.

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo:I think part of the problem is that Lil Kim wants more of a reaction than he's getting. When you cry wolf so often, the world just goes "Meh" and you lose face to your own leadership.

So far the response has been, "Do you really want to play this game?" Sending in B-2's is a pretty clear message that if he's really a new leader he better act like one, and soon.

ontariolightning:BolloxReader: Weren't there people saying that as long as this complex was going, there wasn't anything to worry about?I think the game just got interesting.

meh. They've closed it down multiple times before.

Yeah, this. The North Koreans are assholes, but they're not suicidal. They'll just continue to bluster and threaten, like a bully in an empty schoolyard. But also like a bully, they won't throw a punch against anyone who could ever possibly fight back.

I do wonder, though - if they did attack South Korea, what would happen? Judging by our wars since WII, the U.S. isn't exactly known for winning. My guess is we'd declare war and then try not to hurt anyone. Again.