Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

Originally Posted by LovesSnowCO

I'm glad you said that! I was cringing when Julie said that. And did anyone noticed Rob quietly telling Natalie at FTC something like "don't worry, they'll be smiling later" or something like that? Even Rob thought Julie was being rough on Natalie... I thought it rather sweet on his part to look after her. He has said repeatedly that she was a nice person. I'm sure he didn't think she deserved that kind of talk.

I'm glad Rob won!

Yes! I heard him say that. I thought her speech was more for herself, I wish Natalie had thought to say, you are on the jury.I'm in the final three, whatever it takes Julie..
Still beaming that Rob won

Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

This is a point I have to say to all who say that Rob basically got lucky because he had a bunch of "worshippers" and the like:

Rob's played for four seasons, and made it pretty far in all of them, just missing jury in two (or at least his first go in Marquesas), been in the final two in the other two.

At the time, people knew - or should've known - that he had skills in manipulation, puzzles and winning challenges that he had control over himself to win important immunities.

All these players knew Russell's quite well - it's why the Zaps were wise to not carry him to the end.

Had the roles been reversed, I think the Zaps would've eliminated Rob quickly, not as quickly as Russell, but they seemed to have more respect for his game play because he is sneaky, but understands the difference between the games.

Ometepe isn't so stupid they'd kept Russell had the duo been in each other's tribe. Russell'd been gone quickly - he most likely wouldn't have made the finals.

As far as Phillip's one vote - I can see Ralph's point. I think he is the only one dense enough to see that Phillip's craziness was partially at least an act. Why you may ask? - if he were really as crazy as he was portrayed in psych testing, he'd not been cast. His antics were borderline certifiable, and not caused by having to detox from cigarettes or alcohol, like we've seen in the past.

I don't think Ralph is dense-far from it- he was the only one to figure out Phillip was full of it and not crazy. Phillip was so good at acting crazy it backfired as people actually believed his routine. I thought he was hilarious. The only interesting person in a very predictable waste of a season.

Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

Originally Posted by ironcat

Natalie at 19 is the youngest player ever on Survivor and it showed bigtime. I really don't think a lot of 19 year olds who have just graduated HS and have never been away from home would have been that much more assertive in similar circumstances, even most boys. Personally, I think they should raise the age requirement (I always thought it was 21?) because teenagers are really not mature enough to handle the complexities of Survivor, and it explained why Natalie latched onto Rob the first day and was afraid to let go. And I disagree that he didn't have her best interests at heart, he promised her he'd get her to the end if she stuck with him and he did. The fact that it was also in his best interests to do so is irrelevant. Obviously, he never promised her that he would help her win the whole game.

Regarding Grant still being bitter about Rob's betrayal, based on the fact that he appears to have changed his attitude after the first few episodes aired, I suspect it may have more to do with Grant's buddies at home giving him a hard time about how bad Rob was making him look, and that viewers were lumping all the Omes together as clueless. Yes, Rob made a bunch of smartass remarks in his PIs, but I don't recall him singling Grant out or even saying anything half as insulting as how Russell carried on. And of course Grant has every right to choose who he wants to remain friends with.

My issue with Natalie is that she needs to learn from this because she is young and she did listen to much to one person, even letting him craft her final statement to the jury, knowing he was her main competition for the money. There was no point in listening to Rob anymore at that point, as she was already in the final. She couldn't get any further with his help, and at that point, she should have realized that it was every person for himself/herself If her youth and inexperience prevented her from seeing that, she needs to learn from it and not make the same kind of mistake in the future--even Rob admitted to the camera, if not to Natalie, that he was not giving her good advice at that point. He was telling her to say what would help him win. I also don't really think it's irrelevant that it was in his best interests for her to get to the finals. If it weren't, he'd never have helped her get to the finals, and I'm sure Rob would readily admit that, since he's all about the game. He was using her and she allowed it, right up until the end, because she kept blindly trusting him past the point when she should have. Now that she's done that, she needs to figure out that it's not in her best interest to latch onto people in order to succeed and figure out how to do that on her own.

I would agree that perhaps it would be best to up the age limit on Survivor to at least 20, so that people will have been out of high school for a couple of years. Doesn't guarantee they'd have lived on their own by then, but it increases the possibility that they've learned to be a bit more independent and a bit less naive.

Others have mentioned that Rob led Grant to believe that they were working together to find the immunity idol when he'd already found it. I think he even switched clues, gave Grant the now useless clue he'd used to find it, and threw the other one away--and then laughed about it. Grant may have taken that personally, because it did make him look foolish for trusting Rob, and I'm not really sure what the point in switching the clues was (unless I'm misremembering and Rob hadn't found the idol yet--either way, he was misleading Grant and laughing about it). However, we also don't know exactly what Grant was going through or what the texts/e-mails looked like that they were exchanging. Rob may have ribbed him about making him look foolish, and Grant may not have liked that. Or Grant may just be tired of the whole Survivor thing at this point, is sick of talking about it, and finds that outside of the game, he and Rob just don't have that much in common. There are a ton of reasons why Grant may not be interested in pursuing a friendship with Rob, and since Rob said he was in the game to win a million dollars, I think he just needs to accept that he might have done things in order to accomplish that goal that may have rubbed others the wrong way. Or that others just aren't that interested in continuing on in the Survivor spotlight and would like to get back to their normal lives and the people in them.

If I were Grant, I'd just want Rob to stop talking about how he can't get me to talk to him anymore. If he wanted to address the issue privately, fine, but enough with the on-air conversation about it. It really isn't anyone's business but Grant and Rob what their future interaction is, if there is any. Incidentally, do they live anywhere near each other? How often would they really see each other enough to pursue a genuine friendship anyway?

Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

Originally Posted by lilcountriegal

I actually caught that too. I didnt specifically notice Matt, but it peaked my interest as to who they would be bringing back. I was hoping for a spoiler thread. if there is one, can someone point me in the right direction?

I don't have any spoilers, but I read the interview that EW did with Matt and his responses to questions about if he would ever play the game again made it sound like he was going to be in the next Survivor. Could be reading too much into it, but that's the way it sounded to me.

Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

Did anyone else think that the acceptance of "the lawyer's" proposal was rather shaky? It didn't seem to me that she really wanted to say 'yes', but was under pressure from the very public setting. It's usually not a good idea to pull a stunt like that, I don't think.

Somebody please point me to where people have discussed this. I'm sure it's been done.

Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

Originally Posted by Tilden

My issue with Natalie is that she needs to learn from this because she is young and she did listen to much to one person, even letting him craft her final statement to the jury, knowing he was her main competition for the money. There was no point in listening to Rob anymore at that point, as she was already in the final. She couldn't get any further with his help, and at that point, she should have realized that it was every person for himself/herself If her youth and inexperience prevented her from seeing that, she needs to learn from it and not make the same kind of mistake in the future--even Rob admitted to the camera, if not to Natalie, that he was not giving her good advice at that point. He was telling her to say what would help him win. I also don't really think it's irrelevant that it was in his best interests for her to get to the finals. If it weren't, he'd never have helped her get to the finals, and I'm sure Rob would readily admit that, since he's all about the game. He was using her and she allowed it, right up until the end, because she kept blindly trusting him past the point when she should have. Now that she's done that, she needs to figure out that it's not in her best interest to latch onto people in order to succeed and figure out how to do that on her own.

I would agree that perhaps it would be best to up the age limit on Survivor to at least 20, so that people will have been out of high school for a couple of years. Doesn't guarantee they'd have lived on their own by then, but it increases the possibility that they've learned to be a bit more independent and a bit less naive.

Others have mentioned that Rob led Grant to believe that they were working together to find the immunity idol when he'd already found it. I think he even switched clues, gave Grant the now useless clue he'd used to find it, and threw the other one away--and then laughed about it. Grant may have taken that personally, because it did make him look foolish for trusting Rob, and I'm not really sure what the point in switching the clues was (unless I'm misremembering and Rob hadn't found the idol yet--either way, he was misleading Grant and laughing about it). However, we also don't know exactly what Grant was going through or what the texts/e-mails looked like that they were exchanging. Rob may have ribbed him about making him look foolish, and Grant may not have liked that. Or Grant may just be tired of the whole Survivor thing at this point, is sick of talking about it, and finds that outside of the game, he and Rob just don't have that much in common. There are a ton of reasons why Grant may not be interested in pursuing a friendship with Rob, and since Rob said he was in the game to win a million dollars, I think he just needs to accept that he might have done things in order to accomplish that goal that may have rubbed others the wrong way. Or that others just aren't that interested in continuing on in the Survivor spotlight and would like to get back to their normal lives and the people in them.

If I were Grant, I'd just want Rob to stop talking about how he can't get me to talk to him anymore. If he wanted to address the issue privately, fine, but enough with the on-air conversation about it. It really isn't anyone's business but Grant and Rob what their future interaction is, if there is any. Incidentally, do they live anywhere near each other? How often would they really see each other enough to pursue a genuine friendship anyway?

I agree that once Rob got Natalie to the end, it was a mistake for her to trust him anymore and take his advice about FTC, but this speaks to her naivete, and why I think somebody like Natalie is just too young for this game. It was painfully obvious that even if Rob had told her exactly what to say to really beat him, her extemporaneous speaking skills are just not strong enough to pull off a coherent argument. However, prior to that, everything that Rob advised Natalie to do, which she followed, was probably the only way she was ever going to make it to the F3. So yes, he chose her because it benefited him (and he was the only one on his tribe who realized that her youth would hamstring her eventually and attempted to exploit that), but it also benefitted her, probably more than an alliance with anyone else would have. Case in point, sticking with Ashley wouldn't have gotten her to F3. I do think she will learn from this experience, but don't worry that she is in grave danger of being hoodwinked in the near future by some older man. As has been said repeatedly, Survivor isn't real life.

I agree that Rob should just leave the Grant situation alone, as he and Grant apparently do not think alike. I read an interview where Rob said he expected if anyone would understand the adage "it's a game" it would be NFLer Grant, but apparently not. And yes, until and unless Grant speaks on the subject, we don't know the real reason for Grant's shift in attitude toward Rob, but I tend to believe he feels betrayed and made a fool of by someone he thought was his "equal partner" and is still smarting from it, especially having to hear the fallout every week from his crowd. Maybe he'll get over it in time. The Survivor alums do seem to get together for reunions every now and then, so I doubt the fact that Rob isn't "geographically attractive" has anything to do with Grant's behavior. (Grant is from CA, I believe, Rob lives in FL.)

Re: 5/15 Show Discussion *spoilers*

Originally Posted by redsox girl

I don't think Ralph is dense-far from it- he was the only one to figure out Phillip was full of it and not crazy. Phillip was so good at acting crazy it backfired as people actually believed his routine. I thought he was hilarious. The only interesting person in a very predictable waste of a season.

Sorry, I should've explained myself better - this case he was dense, as in thinking deep enough - to realize that Phillip was acting good at crazy and respected the game play.

The few times I saw him truly dense were revealing the HII to four potential (three active - one RI) players, and then frittering away said idol on another player who didn't need it. If he had played smarter, he'd lasted a teensy bit longer and may not have had to play the RI challenge that lead to his ouster.

I am one of the oddballs who also liked Phillip. He had some huge issues sure (I still think the crazy - racist allegory is a bit too much), but he also was quite funny. I DO think however that the producers made him wear his buff as a loincloth when he was in his pink britches and probably led him to the shorts. If they did, it's the ONLY time I didn't mind them butting into the game. In fact, I'd rather them butt in instead of seeing outlines of things that you shouldn't except in the bedroom.