anyone who thinks Jb should be sent down in favor of keeping the Three Horseman of Mediocrity ...

As always - 100% correct!

And the winner of the best line of the morning is..... ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to clean the coffee I spit up while reading it off my keyboard and screen. :-)

Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

lol ty...but seriously is anyone in the sox brass actually having this thought? please tell me no

Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

That line wouldn't have been as funny if it weren't so TRUE! :-)

IMO the FO should be committed to putting the best nine players on the field every day and it's clear to me that would involve JBJ being in CF.

Winning games involves two things: Scoring runs and keeping your opponent from scoring runs. I sometimes (often) wish that the defensive metrics were as easy to understand as offensive metrics and there was a way to play one against the other. Does the difference between the offensive contribution of JBJ and any one of your "Three Horsemen" outweigh JBJ's obvious defensive superority? It's hard to tell, but it seems like every time a CF doesn't get to a ball that someone else (named JBJ) would have gotten to the other team's offense scores runs, and often more than one. That's probably because when a CF doesn't get to a ball it either results in a run-scoring double or the batter ending up in scoring position.

In addition to THAT you've GOT to take outs away from a team. A team is allotted three outs in an offensive inning and if you have a player that can get to balls that an average OF-er won't get to you have effectively limited that team to two outs that inning. That's HUGE! And the flip side of it is that if you have an OF that doesn't make the average play you've effectively given that team four outs in that inning. And that's also huge. And JBJ will get to balls that none of the Three Horsemen will get to, and I don't think anyone would rank any one of those three as being better than average defensively.

This doesn't even begin to go into the philosophy of the Sox not making moves because they don't want our castoffs going to the Yankees. Carp, for example, is an adequate first baseman with adequate offensive numbers but he's not going to make the Yankees as much better as having JBJ will make the Sox better.

Lets not get too judgemental on 15 games as well. JBJ has looked much better at the plate, and has shown a very good approach at the plate. He has the ethic and the tools to round out to a good above average hitter. And I think at times he has shown that this year, he has had some good at bats and some clutch hits.

If we can get him and Bradley going....watch out!. I don't care what their record is at some point Pedey, Ortiz, Napoli and Nava are going to produce more than what they are now. And if you can add the rookies into the mix then there is no reason why we can't be as good as last year. I'm not going to freak out after 15 games...I still think this team can be a very good team this year.

Judging JBJ on 15 games would be dumb, but it's even dumber when almost no one on the team is hitting well anyway. Bradley's current .655 OPS is the same as David Ortiz and better than Pierzynski, Gomes, Pedroia(!) and Nava. Among our regulars, only Napoli and Xander have a better OBP at this time.

ESPN.com carries DWAR stats and right now ranks Bradley the best fielding outfielder in MLB. More amazing is he is among Sox leaders in RBIs and runs despite low OPS. Tough call for Farrell and Ben C but someone has to go. I think he stays because Sizemore has lost a step or two in CF and Vic is best in RF.

When Vic comes back, probably next Tue, Bradley will go back to Pawtucket for several reasons. First, and most importantly, if he stays then one of Carp/Gomes/Nava has to be let go. There is not enough time to trade them, and such trades are rarely made in April. Bradley will be back when a trade is worked out. Second reason: Bradley has yet to show that he can hit ML pitching; all three other OF, while not nearly as good defensively, have all proven an ability to hit the baseball. A line of .227/.642/73 is just not good enough, despite his stellar defense.

WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

So we watch balls go over outfielder's heads or dropping in front of OF's. Whatever happened to "Solid Up The Middle"? Replacing JBJ (who right now is THE BEST OF'r IN BASEBALL) with anyone only further weakens the "up the midddle" defense.

IMO it's a lousy choice but were I making the choice I wouldn't go all-out either way. I'd keep Bogearts at SS for his hitting and JBJ in CF for his defense. This would allow both of these guys to play to their strength and while they're doing that we can allow them to improve on what's now their weakness.

Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

I'm definitely coming around to this line of thinking.

Right now, I would keep jbj in CF, move Size to left, & pray that Vic can come back healthy SOON.

THIS would be one hell of a strong defensive outfield!!!!! In fact, one of the best in mlb. Grantid, lacking in pop, but all plus hitters.

My big regret would be having to move Carp? WHO IS A SOLID BIG LEAGE HITTER! TOUGH CALL!!!!

The other alternative is to trade Gomes. I realize that he has become a team favorite , great in the clubhouse and is seen as a symbol of our success, but in reality, he is just an average ballplayer in all respects.

The other alternative is to trade Gomes. I realize that he has become a team favorite , great in the clubhouse and is seen as a symbol of our success, but in reality, he is just an average ballplayer in all respects.

To BDC: I find it tiring to read the new font with the grayish color. So I'm skimming more than I used to. Just FYI.

Main question: what will do JBJ more good in learning to hit -- stay with Sox, or go back to minors? He looks overmatched at the plate. Is it better to leave him in for his good defense, or send him to Pawtucket to improve his hitting? Ultimately he can't play ML baseball as a center fielder if he can't hit past .270. Maybe it does him more good to gain experience at Pawtucket than it does to fail at the major league level.

anyone who thinks Jb should be sent down in favor of keeping the Three Horseman of Mediocrity intact is nuts....i could care less which one of those spare parts we cut loose but it better not be JB...his speed and defense alone make him more valuable than the other three salamis

As always - 100% correct!

I agree; in fact, if the SOX traded all 3 of them as a package, the SOX would be lucky to get a FLAG SHIRT in return.

The other alternative is to trade Gomes. I realize that he has become a team favorite , great in the clubhouse and is seen as a symbol of our success, but in reality, he is just an average ballplayer in all respects.

JBJ HAS shown flashes but has ZERO pop in his bat right now. may b what he is after all, a slap hitting guy with a good eye who gives great effort and D. but right now we need to return the vets to their roles once vic comes back. though last week that JB had played his self into permanence a la boegy but he's back to tethering. one mo round in the minors may do the trick.

There is a better chance of the Sox calling me up to dance the Watusi while wearing a beekeeper's helmet during the seventh inning stretches than there is of them demoting Bradley just because he does not excel on old-fashioned Back of the Card baseball stats...

BenC should have been working on trades since ST--being prepared and knowing who's out there and who he would like to bring in. Putting the best team on the field with the best players in the system should be any GM's goal.BC gets too attached to the players in front of him--not a good quality for a GM.

I have no idea why you would think any of that was true. Papi and Pedey are the only survivors from two years ago. BC got rid of the rest of the position players. IRT trades, I assume all GMs entertain all sorts of trades. I'd bet serious money that even the worst GM ni BB knows who's out there.

BenC should have been working on trades since ST--being prepared and knowing who's out there and who he would like to bring in. Putting the best team on the field with the best players in the system should be any GM's goal.BC gets too attached to the players in front of him--not a good quality for a GM.

I have no idea why you would think any of that was true. Papi and Pedey are the only survivors from two years ago. BC got rid of the rest of the position players. IRT trades, I assume all GMs entertain all sorts of trades. I'd bet serious money that even the worst GM ni BB knows who's out there.

I think what he means is that BC brought back a team with less than 25 All Stars and therefore he much be developing attachment and is no good at his job. He should be immediately replaced by a casual Sox fan who would NEVER develop an irrational and unfueled attachment to a player, like, say Orlando Cabrera...

anyone who thinks Jb should be sent down in favor of keeping the Three Horseman of Mediocrity ...

As always - 100% correct!

And the winner of the best line of the morning is..... ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to clean the coffee I spit up while reading it off my keyboard and screen. :-)

Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

lol ty...but seriously is anyone in the sox brass actually having this thought? please tell me no

Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

That line wouldn't have been as funny if it weren't so TRUE! :-)

IMO the FO should be committed to putting the best nine players on the field every day and it's clear to me that would involve JBJ being in CF.

Winning games involves two things: Scoring runs and keeping your opponent from scoring runs. I sometimes (often) wish that the defensive metrics were as easy to understand as offensive metrics and there was a way to play one against the other. Does the difference between the offensive contribution of JBJ and any one of your "Three Horsemen" outweigh JBJ's obvious defensive superority? It's hard to tell, but it seems like every time a CF doesn't get to a ball that someone else (named JBJ) would have gotten to the other team's offense scores runs, and often more than one. That's probably because when a CF doesn't get to a ball it either results in a run-scoring double or the batter ending up in scoring position.

In addition to THAT you've GOT to take outs away from a team. A team is allotted three outs in an offensive inning and if you have a player that can get to balls that an average OF-er won't get to you have effectively limited that team to two outs that inning. That's HUGE! And the flip side of it is that if you have an OF that doesn't make the average play you've effectively given that team four outs in that inning. And that's also huge. And JBJ will get to balls that none of the Three Horsemen will get to, and I don't think anyone would rank any one of those three as being better than average defensively.

This doesn't even begin to go into the philosophy of the Sox not making moves because they don't want our castoffs going to the Yankees. Carp, for example, is an adequate first baseman with adequate offensive numbers but he's not going to make the Yankees as much better as having JBJ will make the Sox better.

1. Don't try to explain defense to georom. He's a self-proclaimed expert at it. It's like trying to explain religion to the Pope, except His Holiness would probably make an actual salient point and at the very least, do more than simply counter all your points by typing <flush> and then repeating his qualifications. (Although from the Pope, I find that to be acceptable.)

2. As I pointed out in the pre-season and was told "No way!", Nava has an option left. There will be no trades or complicated decisions. You might feel Carp is better than Nava, but bear in mind, this way they keep them both...

anyone who thinks Jb should be sent down in favor of keeping the Three Horseman of Mediocrity ...

As always - 100% correct!

And the winner of the best line of the morning is..... ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to clean the coffee I spit up while reading it off my keyboard and screen. :-)

Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

lol ty...but seriously is anyone in the sox brass actually having this thought? please tell me no

Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

That line wouldn't have been as funny if it weren't so TRUE! :-)

IMO the FO should be committed to putting the best nine players on the field every day and it's clear to me that would involve JBJ being in CF.

Winning games involves two things: Scoring runs and keeping your opponent from scoring runs. I sometimes (often) wish that the defensive metrics were as easy to understand as offensive metrics and there was a way to play one against the other. Does the difference between the offensive contribution of JBJ and any one of your "Three Horsemen" outweigh JBJ's obvious defensive superority? It's hard to tell, but it seems like every time a CF doesn't get to a ball that someone else (named JBJ) would have gotten to the other team's offense scores runs, and often more than one. That's probably because when a CF doesn't get to a ball it either results in a run-scoring double or the batter ending up in scoring position.

In addition to THAT you've GOT to take outs away from a team. A team is allotted three outs in an offensive inning and if you have a player that can get to balls that an average OF-er won't get to you have effectively limited that team to two outs that inning. That's HUGE! And the flip side of it is that if you have an OF that doesn't make the average play you've effectively given that team four outs in that inning. And that's also huge. And JBJ will get to balls that none of the Three Horsemen will get to, and I don't think anyone would rank any one of those three as being better than average defensively.

This doesn't even begin to go into the philosophy of the Sox not making moves because they don't want our castoffs going to the Yankees. Carp, for example, is an adequate first baseman with adequate offensive numbers but he's not going to make the Yankees as much better as having JBJ will make the Sox better.

1. Don't try to explain defense to georom. He's a self-proclaimed expert at it. It's like trying to explain religion to the Pope, except His Holiness would probably make an actual salient point and at the very least, do more than simply counter all your points by typing <flush> and then repeating his qualifications. (Although from the Pope, I find that to be acceptable.)

2. As I pointed out in the pre-season and was told "No way!", Nava has an option left. There will be no trades or complicated decisions. You might feel Carp is better than Nava, but bear in mind, this way they keep them both...

even the Pope knows that Gomes is a defensive hack and JB a stud....dont you ever get tired of carrying the water for the front office? case in point the Roberts signing....more lateral moves by Ben trying to squeeze anything out of marginal players rather than give youngsters a shot...do you even watch the game at all? jb is a gold glove caliber outfielder right now with his range, instincts, and arm....let him play everyday in CF where he belongs....Gomes can keep busy on the bench with his war memorabilia

ESPN.com carries DWAR stats and right now ranks Bradley the best fielding outfielder in MLB. More amazing is he is among Sox leaders in RBIs and runs despite low OPS. Tough call for Farrell and Ben C but someone has to go. I think he stays because Sizemore has lost a step or two in CF and Vic is best in RF.

case in point the Roberts signing....more lateral moves by Ben trying to squeeze anything out of marginal players rather than give youngsters a shot...do you even watch the game at all?

I'm a big proponent of giving kids a shot, but we have no kids ready to take over at 3rd. Cecchini has a .759 in AAA this year, and a career fielding % of .931. Compared to a mediocre fielding talent like WMB, WMB has a .953. We might be talking about a full season 25-30 errors out of 3B. Most times, if you lose a guy for 2-3 weeks, you're better off with a AAAA player than trying to force a lower level guy to be promoted.

case in point the Roberts signing....more lateral moves by Ben trying to squeeze anything out of marginal players rather than give youngsters a shot...do you even watch the game at all?

I'm a big proponent of giving kids a shot, but we have no kids ready to take over at 3rd. Cecchini has a .759 in AAA this year, and a career fielding % of .931. Compared to a mediocre fielding talent like WMB, WMB has a .953. We might be talking about a full season 25-30 errors out of 3B. Most times, if you lose a guy for 2-3 weeks, you're better off with a AAAA player than trying to force a lower level guy to be promoted.

im not a fan of the two week hires from outside of the organization jb...just promote them and give them a taste of the bigs...when they play well, they should stick - field your best team out there

case in point the Roberts signing....more lateral moves by Ben trying to squeeze anything out of marginal players rather than give youngsters a shot...do you even watch the game at all?

I'm a big proponent of giving kids a shot, but we have no kids ready to take over at 3rd. Cecchini has a .759 in AAA this year, and a career fielding % of .931. Compared to a mediocre fielding talent like WMB, WMB has a .953. We might be talking about a full season 25-30 errors out of 3B. Most times, if you lose a guy for 2-3 weeks, you're better off with a AAAA player than trying to force a lower level guy to be promoted.

im not a fan of the two week hires from outside of the organization jb...just promote them and give them a taste of the bigs...when they play well, they should stick - field your best team out there

I think you are right and I will admit I was for the Roberts signing and now we know it was a bust. I guess the posters who were against the Roberts signing were right and Ben does not "know more than them".

JBJ needs to stay when VIC comes back. I know Nava will turn it around and be better than this, but if everyone is playing healthy he still might be the 4th outfielder. I like having Sizemore/JBJ/Victorino in the outfield. That is a VERY strong outfield. JBJ is starting to turn it around with the bat too, He's not hitting GREAT but he is above the Mendoza line and a lot of his hits have been clutch, and he's put together some great PA's with a OBP of .357

He's not a burner, and I don't know why people keep on saying and thinking that he is but Jackie Bradley Jr does not have great speed. I think people just assume it because he is an elite defender in center field. When it is all said and done, I think the only difference between Ellsbury and Bradley JR. will be the stolen bases.

And quite frankly, if he can stay healthy and not cost $20+ a year I'll take that all day long.

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he is faster than the other three and is miles ahead defensively...so his worth as a late inning replacement is immense...i agree that vic, jb, and grady will be a very nice outfield to watch play...now if we can string together a few big hits when its needed....i am a little concerned about lackey/douby too but they will suffice as long as peavy and lester bring it

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JBJ is not faster than Sizemore, and Victorino who both have plus speed. They aren't elite baserunners like Ellsbury but they are very good, and fast runners. JBJ is not fast, he has amazing instincts and gets off to a faster start than anyone else to the ball and that is why he is an elite Centerfielder....but running from 1st to 2nd JBJ gets beat by those two any day of the week. I still think he might be a 10-15 bagger just because he has such great instincts.

JBJ needs to stay when VIC comes back. I know Nava will turn it around and be better than this, but if everyone is playing healthy he still might be the 4th outfielder. I like having Sizemore/JBJ/Victorino in the outfield. That is a VERY strong outfield. JBJ is starting to turn it around with the bat too, He's not hitting GREAT but he is above the Mendoza line and a lot of his hits have been clutch, and he's put together some great PA's with a OBP of .357

He's not a burner, and I don't know why people keep on saying and thinking that he is but Jackie Bradley Jr does not have great speed. I think people just assume it because he is an elite defender in center field. When it is all said and done, I think the only difference between Ellsbury and Bradley JR. will be the stolen bases.

And quite frankly, if he can stay healthy and not cost $20+ a year I'll take that all day long.

================================================================

he is faster than the other three and is miles ahead defensively...so his worth as a late inning replacement is immense...i agree that vic, jb, and grady will be a very nice outfield to watch play...now if we can string together a few big hits when its needed....i am a little concerned about lackey/douby too but they will suffice as long as peavy and lester bring it

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JBJ is not faster than Sizemore, and Victorino who both have plus speed. They aren't elite baserunners like Ellsbury but they are very good, and fast runners. JBJ is not fast, he has amazing instincts and gets off to a faster start than anyone else to the ball and that is why he is an elite Centerfielder....but running from 1st to 2nd JBJ gets beat by those two any day of the week. I still think he might be a 10-15 bagger just because he has such great instincts.

As far as the outfield goes, instincts are better than speed. As far as base running, he needs work but he still gets more looks and throws to first from pitchers than size. As far as Vic goes, he may not be the same Vic as last year. JBJ is on his way up the ladder and should be given the opportunity to play. I doubt he goes down or plays anywhere but center.