Any feedback on Advanced Energy Panels (window insulation panels)? - Home Energy Pros2015-03-31T22:18:42Zhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/forum/topics/any-feedback-on-advanced-energy-panels-window-insulation-panels?commentId=6069565%3AComment%3A104568&xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHi, my name is David and I'm…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2013-03-07:6069565:Comment:1074902013-03-07T16:24:06.976ZDavid D'Arpinohttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/DavidDArpino
<p>Hi, my name is David and I'm an architect in Albany, NY. We have specified AEP panels for projects in residential, commercial and institutional buildings with very favorable results. I also have purchased them for my home and would highly recommend them. Here's some info on my experience:</p>
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<p>Our house is a 1925 wood framed colonial. About 2,000 sq/ft. It cost about $2,000 for 21 windows (19 single pane double hung and 2 fixed single pane) Our energy bills dropped an average…</p>
<p>Hi, my name is David and I'm an architect in Albany, NY. We have specified AEP panels for projects in residential, commercial and institutional buildings with very favorable results. I also have purchased them for my home and would highly recommend them. Here's some info on my experience:</p>
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<p>Our house is a 1925 wood framed colonial. About 2,000 sq/ft. It cost about $2,000 for 21 windows (19 single pane double hung and 2 fixed single pane) Our energy bills dropped an average of $75 a month during the 6 months of heating. This is about a 4 1/2 year payback. We are also restoring the original sash by weather stripping them and had the house insulated with blown-in fiberglass. They immediately improved the comfort level in the house by elimnating the air transmission and lowered our energy costs. The frames set perfectly in the casings and are held with buttefly clips. </p>
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<p>The reduction of condensation is remarkable. We have a combination of A) aluminum triple track exterior storms, non-restored double hung &amp; AEP, B) restored sash and AEP and C) non-restored sash &amp; AEP. I take the AEP panels off and watch the results. The aluminum storms and wood sash get condensation and frost compared to the fully restored and AEP. These are windows right next to each other. </p>
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<p>In the past 5 years we have had to repair the plastic on 2 panels (attributed to kids and a dog). The plastic film has not yellowed or hazed. They clean easily with water and mild soap, are light weight and for around $9 sq/ft is a very reasonable and economical solution for a home owner. If you don't want to use the plastic clips the House of Antique Hardware offers decorative bronze butterfly clips that you can mount on the frames. </p>
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<p>A decent relacement window will run you $400 (not the vinyl Windo-Rama brands) plus the install cost. A really good brand will cost significantly more. I never recommend replacement if the existing sash can be salvaged and repaired. Interior storm windows are heavy, sometime fixed in place, and are just as expensive as a replacement window.</p>
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<p>The film can be easily ripped by a pointed object and we have only replaced them in 1 instance at a college where the students were poking pens through them. Guess higher education doesn't always pay. </p>
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<p>Since the issue has come up in other posts, I have no financial investment in the company, receive no money or advertise for AEP in any way. I just think they are an excellent and economical option for retrofits and recommend them for the right projects. </p> Craig,
Thanks for your questi…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2013-02-14:6069565:Comment:1049802013-02-14T23:09:16.821ZRobert (Bob) Baconhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/RobertBobBacon
<p>Craig,</p>
<p>Thanks for your question, I'll write regarding how to account for the heat transfer in the interstitial air space as soon as I get a minute. - Bob</p>
<p>Craig,</p>
<p>Thanks for your question, I'll write regarding how to account for the heat transfer in the interstitial air space as soon as I get a minute. - Bob</p> I have been reading the threa…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2013-02-14:6069565:Comment:1050822013-02-14T19:34:56.218ZLarry Nissmanhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/LarryNissman
<p>I have been reading the threads in this discussion and thought I would add my two cents. I am not a representative for AEP. I conduct energy audits in NY and work for an HVAC company. We have installed the AEP product for some of our clients and the product works very well at sealing up leaky windows. This was the primary reason for the installation and solved the home owners' issues. If they also provided extra thermal protection from heat loss through glass, then all the better. Depending…</p>
<p>I have been reading the threads in this discussion and thought I would add my two cents. I am not a representative for AEP. I conduct energy audits in NY and work for an HVAC company. We have installed the AEP product for some of our clients and the product works very well at sealing up leaky windows. This was the primary reason for the installation and solved the home owners' issues. If they also provided extra thermal protection from heat loss through glass, then all the better. Depending what the contractor charges for installation, these panels are cost effective relative to what a new window might cost. If the home owner can install them without help, they are certainly a good buy although I am not up to speed on current pricing. It used to be about $9 a square foot. There is a learning curve on properly measuring the windows and installation so not everybody will be comfortable doing it themselves. Overall this is a good product for the right application. Yes, Bob should have identified that he was affiliated with AEP, but it was pretty clear from his first response that he was a rep. </p>
<p></p> I met the owner of the Advanc…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2013-02-12:6069565:Comment:1045962013-02-12T14:52:51.310ZAndrew Johnstonhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/AndrewJohnston
<p>I met the owner of the Advanced Energy Panels several years ago at a "Green" show at the Egg in Albany. I was intrigued with the program and have stayed in touch with the owner over the years. I have never worked for Jim or been paid any money or given any free panels so my reason for commenting on this discussion board is only because I really believe they work. I have toured the manufacturing facilities, visited buildings where they have been installed and even applied the film to a…</p>
<p>I met the owner of the Advanced Energy Panels several years ago at a "Green" show at the Egg in Albany. I was intrigued with the program and have stayed in touch with the owner over the years. I have never worked for Jim or been paid any money or given any free panels so my reason for commenting on this discussion board is only because I really believe they work. I have toured the manufacturing facilities, visited buildings where they have been installed and even applied the film to a window in the shop. I have attended a few demonstrations presented to various groups. Here is my feedback.</p>
<p>1) Having worked at Lowes in commercial sales an having sold windows in the past I learned that buying a new window is good if your old window is falling out of the frame but when you crunch the numbers and factor in the cost of installation, the money you save will at best help you to break even over a 20 to 25 year time period. And those numbers are based on the assumption that the new window will hold its "dead-air" seal over that whole time. Rarely does that happen. In fact a major window company in a training I attended admitted that 15% of all new windows loose thier seals during installation.</p>
<p>2)AEP's provide a much larger "dead-air" space than windows and plastic is not a conductor like glass is. A tripple pane window in the winter is still cold to the touch.</p>
<p>3) There is no better application for energy saving in historic window settings as these panels are mounted on the inside and can be made to fit any shape of window. The people at the historical societey in Hudson, NY absolutly loved them and said the would reccomend them as a viable solution.</p>
<p>4) AEP's prevent the heat in your room from being sucked to cold windows. This also eliminates moisture and mold on your windows.</p>
<p>5) Because the window is seperated from the heat of the room in the winter and the cool from the air conditioner in the summer much of the warping caused from the heat differential is eliminated increasing the longevity of the window and it's built in seals.</p>
<p>6) The benefits of application in commercial settings is also great. One commercial setting I visited who had already had these AEP's installed told me that they would not have been able to use that building for retail business because it was just too cold before the panels.</p>
<p>7) These AEP's are made in the USA. There are so few manufacturers left in New York and Jim's business plan has always been to use the underprivliaged to help make these panels. What more could you ask for?</p>
<p>8) Jim has always told me that if a viable customer is still unsure he will make them up a panel and put it in thier coldest window. If they don't like it he takes it back. You can make arguments all you want based on your theoretical opinions but in the end if you try it and like it then buy it. If you don't then don't.</p> I for one, enjoy having a pro…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2013-02-11:6069565:Comment:1047812013-02-11T18:27:55.189ZCraig Birdhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/CraigBird
<p>I for one, enjoy having a product representative chime in. No one has more facts about the product. Part of the fun of being a scientist is questioning those facts. I think Bob has done well presenting the product whether or not the disclosure was proper up front or if the marketing claims of the parent company need revising. I built interior storms for a weatherization program - which requires adequate return - I believe in the approach for the right circumstance and price point. I am…</p>
<p>I for one, enjoy having a product representative chime in. No one has more facts about the product. Part of the fun of being a scientist is questioning those facts. I think Bob has done well presenting the product whether or not the disclosure was proper up front or if the marketing claims of the parent company need revising. I built interior storms for a weatherization program - which requires adequate return - I believe in the approach for the right circumstance and price point. I am considering offering my customers an interior storm option and this discussion has forced me to think more about the best solution and I have learned from it.</p>
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<p>Question away, but no need to slander when someone is engaging the topic from a building science standpoint. Ok Bob, no how about those unanswered building science questions in the thread?</p> I signed up for the forum as…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2013-02-11:6069565:Comment:1048562013-02-11T16:59:07.764ZRobert (Bob) Baconhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/RobertBobBacon
<p>I signed up for the forum as soon as I found out about it while searching the web because it has threads about of lot of stuff that I am familiar with and quite interested in.</p>
<p>I never mentioned this forum or my having joined it to Keri and had no idea that she was going to post a thread. Once she posted her inquiry, a notice from Home Energy Pros was automatically sent to me.</p>
<p>I responded to someone earlier this morning with even more 'disclosure' and personal background. It…</p>
<p>I signed up for the forum as soon as I found out about it while searching the web because it has threads about of lot of stuff that I am familiar with and quite interested in.</p>
<p>I never mentioned this forum or my having joined it to Keri and had no idea that she was going to post a thread. Once she posted her inquiry, a notice from Home Energy Pros was automatically sent to me.</p>
<p>I responded to someone earlier this morning with even more 'disclosure' and personal background. It appears that once one declares oneself as a "professional" or a "scientist" they become very suspicious and highly defensive.</p>
<p>I feel like I uncovered a sect of paranoid conspiracy theorists and doomsday preppers. Chill guys. </p>
<p>Looks like a nice tractor Bud.</p> As far as fairness, accuracy…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2013-02-11:6069565:Comment:1045682013-02-11T16:23:51.436ZCraig Birdhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/CraigBird
<p>As far as fairness, accuracy and completeness, please start with discussion of the role of the larger air gap between the panel and the window in your overall r-value claims. Thanks,</p>
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<p>Craig</p>
<p>As far as fairness, accuracy and completeness, please start with discussion of the role of the larger air gap between the panel and the window in your overall r-value claims. Thanks,</p>
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<p>Craig</p> Bob - I was referring to the…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2013-02-11:6069565:Comment:1048522013-02-11T16:11:30.164ZCraig Birdhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/CraigBird
<p>Bob - I was referring to the air space between the window-Therm panel and the window. The testing seems to be done on the assembly including the larger air gap between the window and the panel. Air spaces can add an R-1 per inch, so the gap between the panel and the window has a large effect on the overall R-value of the assembly. This air gap would be present on any interior storm. I do see how you are adding an additional 0.5" by having an air gap built into the panel, so you will have…</p>
<p>Bob - I was referring to the air space between the window-Therm panel and the window. The testing seems to be done on the assembly including the larger air gap between the window and the panel. Air spaces can add an R-1 per inch, so the gap between the panel and the window has a large effect on the overall R-value of the assembly. This air gap would be present on any interior storm. I do see how you are adding an additional 0.5" by having an air gap built into the panel, so you will have that advantage over any other single pane interior storm. I see no problem using this to support your marketing of the product, as it is the assembly that is shown. However, in your presentation to our group of building scientists, we will hold your words to more scrutiny. There isn't anything magical about this film vs plexiglass or glass in regards to surface temperature - you have created two air gaps to increase the surface temperature. Its a great solution, but I still surmise that if a two gap system was created with other materials, you would have the same effect. IF the testing was done on the assembly, disclosure should be made in your marketing that the overall r-value and savings estimates will vary with the distance from the window glazing and the Window-Therm.</p> More data regarding AEPtag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2013-02-11:6069565:Comment:1046822013-02-11T15:15:07.740ZRobert (Bob) Baconhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/RobertBobBacon
<p>More data regarding AEP</p>
<p>More data regarding AEP</p> Rod,
I have several charts th…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2013-02-11:6069565:Comment:1045632013-02-11T15:10:01.930ZRobert (Bob) Baconhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/RobertBobBacon
<p>Rod,</p>
<p>I have several charts that Window Improvement Masters has created in the course of our own analysis as well as independent lab tests that were commissioned by WindoTherm, our licensor that I would like to share, I would appreciate everyone's feedback regarding the fairness, accuracy, completeness, etc. of our methodologies, factors, values, and assumptions. There are three files attached. More to follow.</p>
<p>Rod,</p>
<p>I have several charts that Window Improvement Masters has created in the course of our own analysis as well as independent lab tests that were commissioned by WindoTherm, our licensor that I would like to share, I would appreciate everyone's feedback regarding the fairness, accuracy, completeness, etc. of our methodologies, factors, values, and assumptions. There are three files attached. More to follow.</p>