why the fsck should I supply and run a guild so that not only the 40 people we bring to the table can have fun but others (fighting against us) too - at the expense of missing out on the fun stuff like dragons?

Selfish bitch aren't I? I really hate your ignorance and implication that it's alright for a few people to be stressed into actually making the server happen for others.

WoE players want to play the rest of the game too. WHY SHOULD I CARE ABOUT AN EVENT OR UPDATE I WON'T GET TO USE????

Classic had/has tons of issues - holding back content for no reason, randomly customized (and most of the time not properly working) stuff, bots and zenyspammers going ham everywhere while GMs didn't care, etc.

Ragnarok is designed as a MMO - this stands for Massive Multiplayer (!) Onlinegame. The current playerbase is not even close to "massive" or even "multiplayer".

Even if they tossed in tons of supplies for our "WoE-Community" this wouldn't fix anything but keeping a fistful of people playin' for like 2 hours a week, which wouldn't revive this server.

We need a fixed broken leg, not a bunch of drugs so we can "keep going" for another week.

At least would fix woe scenarium cause people are not playing because they had no way to supply themselves. That's why there are so many merges.

Those who do play for WoE still spend most of their non-WoE time on RO prepping for WoE

And as one of those people I want to play the rest of the game. I won't get to tho unless they do something to assist with the WoE supply situation. So why the hell should I or any of those people care about DG or dragons or whatever the eff gets put in if it won't be something I can participate in?

Even as far as Dragons goes, Sarah offered to log on of my chars in dragons parties in the realization I probably will never have time to participate in the parties before I had even thought about it. She's right though...... She shouldn't be.

This woe supply thing has been asked for awhile I take this server as a semi casual basis. And it's staff as some of the corporations that just want to maximize profits until there's a better scam to run why is there plenty f time to put in a lucky or grove box but minimal effort to improve the woe scene and supplies

At least would fix woe scenarium cause people are not playing because they had no way to supply themselves. That's why there are so many merges.

This woe supply thing has been asked for awhile I take this server as a semi casual basis. And it's staff as some of the corporations that just want to maximize profits until there's a better scam to run why is there plenty f time to put in a lucky or grove box but minimal effort to improve the woe scene and supplies

These two posts are directly related. People quit WoE because of the mergers. The mergers happen because so few people can put the time needed into making WoE a thing.

I'm feeling particularly ranty about the topic today because I really wanna do dragons. =(

If your dudes aren't contributing, maybe you should look into delegating duties. There are always going to be people who are capable of putting in more time than others, but if you break up the work so it's more even... maybe it won't seem so daunting. That sounds more like a problem with your guild and your leadership than with the server.

And I don't know what you're talking about, DG only being good for champs and Valk guild. Iirc, reps from a number of guilds were interested and posting thoughts in the last thread about DG.

If your dudes aren't contributing, maybe you should look into delegating duties. There are always going to be people who are capable of putting in more time than others, but if you break up the work so it's more even... maybe it won't seem so daunting. That sounds more like a problem with your guild and your leadership than with the server.

And I don't know what you're talking about, DG only being good for champs and Valk guild. Iirc, reps from a number of guilds were interested and posting thoughts in the last thread about DG.

Oh there you go again, holier-than-thou. I'm sure I can learn a lot about running a 40 man guild from someone in one that struggles to pull 12.

Other people are contributing, but since this is pretty difficult for you to grasp, half the problem is potting (which cannot be shrunk down) - the less time taken hunting the better.

Right now we are in an interesting state where not enough people play outside of WoE (since only thors is good for exp), or there's no profit on the market (not even through WoE) because of item saturation. Guilds who have been highly active are having to play catchup with stashed yggs from the raffler/botted ales (LOL) and generally botted supplies.

There's nothing to play for. And since WoE is just as stagnant, people don't feel like it's worth putting time into the game. They still want to play yes.

As far as Valhalla goes, I'm quite happy to state that I feel like I have the most supportive guild on the server when it comes to contribution. There's a couple of people who have jobs and finals, but that's a thing that happens often. Across the board. Before you try to slyly turn this into saying my guild don't help out etc, they do and our god item collection is testament to that. Thank you very much darlin'

In order to fix both WoE and PVM, they need to just make WoE more accessible. It's not even just about Valhalla; As it stands right now we are able to (grudgingly) supply 100k+ slims per WoE. That just means some of us don't get to play the rest of the game. To anyone moving to compete against that? I wish you the best of luck without sacrificing all of your game time to do it.

I took note of all the people posting "amigad DG!!11" they almost exclusively all play champs.

Now, if you want to take another shot at my wanting to ease up the game and make it so that PVM is more accessible for those who DO play, I suggest you try another method than attacking my guild/leadership neither of which you know anything about.

At least I have a guild and not just a glorified WoE party that cries at every turn for the game to be made easier because there's no cohesion or drive to the group. Sound familiar?

The majority of the active Classic community wanted icewall and many other things that can be abused, disabled.

Tolrin and almost exclusively Valk members came to argue against this for whatever reason.

How can you justify killing one of the most prestigious bosses in the game with mechanics that bug out his AI and force him to sit there?
Not sure how that's even fun. Pong is more interactive than that.

You did have randoms like Sputnik post about disabling Gods, but that's almost trollish in nature.

The MvP and update in general does favor champs.

If they didn't dick over the dark bac with pay 2 win gears, and introduce steroids that never existed before (mental potions) it would definitely be a different story.

You're usually pretty civil and your arguments are thought out, but you seem to harbor something when it comes to Xellie.

I wish DG was a big deal as it was on the original servers. At this point, almost all gear is already outdated. The only relevant gear is going to be for champs. Every other class probably cannot find much in DG. I feel sad to say this, but I'm beginning to wonder if Satan Morroc is even worth killing. Dark Bacillum was a HUGE deal on Valk server, but with the parade hat going into the kafra shop on this server, does anybody care about SM drops?

You might say leveling, but leveling in that map is hardly efficient compared to Thors unless you are rocking a Drac/Phree TKM or something like that. In that case, sure, but that precludes almost everybody from actually wanting to use the map.

As somebody who has hardly had any time to play of late, I would much rather see sweeping improvements to the WoE scene than anything. I imagine there are many people like me who would instantly come back and put time into playing this server if WoE was fun.

I just want to play the game, collect some items of varying qualities and do stuff with my friends. I'm quite happy playing the game my way, from PvM/MVP to WoE, it's clear that there's people with lots of different views on the "right" way to play but the cool thing about Ragnarok is there's so many options. When you start to remove things and play with other things it really has a pretty deep impact on the choices people can make. It's fair that people want stuff like Ice Wall and Eske disabled for a time to help prevent griefing on such a difficult MVP. But it's not going to stop the same person from just dragging a huge train of mobs over your party. It's a simple fix that doesnt impact the GMs at all, but in a few months people will find the easiest way to kill any given boss as competition dies.

I like RO, as it was. There have been some positive changes on this server as well as a lot of negative ones that have driven away a lot of potential players. Having some healthy discussion is nice and so is looking to make ways to get more of the community involved in "end game" (including the GMs so they know how this works). But it's really hard to sit down and get involved when any time someone posts something that doesnt agree with the way other people want to play the game they get personally attacked and put down because of their ideas and opinions or even the group the associate with.

If your dudes aren't contributing, maybe you should look into delegating duties. There are always going to be people who are capable of putting in more time than others, but if you break up the work so it's more even... maybe it won't seem so daunting. That sounds more like a problem with your guild and your leadership than with the server.

Oh, wait... you aren't joking?

I manage supplies for a small 8-20man woe guild every week...

The best I can get from them is

"Here take this zeny, while I'm at work go buy X amount of this supply"

Only 1-2 others sort of help mostly not for free.

I can only imagine what a "full" guild has to deal with.

And I get
"Well... you can just sell the castle drops to make the zeny back"

"HOW DID I NOT THINK OF THAT??!!!!"

oh.. wait, 5M for an OCA? Yeah... with my bad luck that barely scratches the surface of what expenses are made each week.

buuuuuuuuuut...

you were joking right?

guild members cooperating

well I'll get back to my exp farm... luckily I only manage a small guild so my supplies are set by now

IMPORTANT AL3 TURN IN INFO?

Oh.. shoot.. that's what I stopped by for

I just had a terrible TI experience details are as follows so no one recreates my events

I just leveled up from 97 to 98 with BMx3 and dragon hat

I got roughly exactly what I needed in exp from blue acidus x100 TI

I turned in the gold acidus 200 right after that with BMx3 and only received 5.3M exp

The majority of the active Classic community wanted icewall and many other things that can be abused, disabled.

Tolrin and almost exclusively Valk members came to argue against this for whatever reason.

How can you justify killing one of the most prestigious bosses in the game with mechanics that bug out his AI and force him to sit there?
Not sure how that's even fun. Pong is more interactive than that.

You did have randoms like Sputnik post about disabling Gods, but that's almost trollish in nature.

The MvP and update in general does favor champs.

If they didn't dick over the dark bac with pay 2 win gears, and introduce steroids that never existed before (mental potions) it would definitely be a different story.

You're usually pretty civil and your arguments are thought out, but you seem to harbor something when it comes to Xellie.

Implementation of DG is not as important as tweaking supply box drops, balancing the WoE scene, managing existing events, and countless other things. However, the GMs haven't approved any of those things, and have even gone so far as to say some of those things will not be changed. Whether or not they can be persuaded to change their minds (and I think they should) remains to be seen, but DG is SCHEDULED to come out. It's happening. Since it's a sure thing and such a huge patch, I'd rather spend my energy discussing DG in detail so that it gets implemented successfully with as few bugs as possible. I think Camp(?) said that another DG thread would pop up since not much got resolved in the other one.

In reference to the other DG thread: I can't speak for other Valk members because I don't know their reasons for wanting icewall and eske enabled, but I'd like them enabled because I don't like the idea of being told that I can only use my skills in certain areas after spending points on them. To me, that's like buying a car and then being told that I can't drive on the highway. It doesn't make sense. If the skills are overpowered, tweak them or remove them from the skill tree altogether. The principle is important to me, even though I probably won't be affected by a decision either way (I don't care for MvPing, so I probably won't ever touch Satan Morroc). That's my opinion. If yours is different than mine, that's cool. That's what discussion is for.

I'm embarrassed by how the community has reacted to this. Normally I feel like, as a group, we're pretty reasonable and logical (with some notable exceptions). As Themes has previously pointed out, the GMs don't play the game like we do (if at all), so sometimes they do stuff without fully understanding how it works and how it will affect things. Sometimes bad stuff happens. And I'm glad that in those cases, when we present them with facts and reasonable arguments, we can usually persuade them to change things to benefit the game and community as a whole. That's what we've been doing for MONTHS to get them to put in DG (with a handful of tantrums thrown in). Now, when they're doing what we asked and implementing DG, suddenly it's... not good enough? Even though it's what so many people have been asking for?

....Do you know what that makes our community look like? Spoiled brats. If this is how we act when we get what we want, and we whine and threaten to quit when we don't get what we want... what makes you think they're going to even CONSIDER anything we have to say in the future? That prospect is very upsetting to me.

Some of us have been asking for this other stuff before DG even came on the radar.

GMs are smart enough to realize that players have differing senses of importance. Just because a bunch of people have been threatening to quit over DG not coming ASAP (whilst the staff consider the balance implications of SM gear) - doesn't mean they think the people who have other priorities make the community as a whole look like a bunch of spoiled brats. I have ALWAYS stood by saying they need to fix the other stuff before SM comes. You're speaking for yourself when you say "we're getting what WE want"

Nevermind that DG is a very minor update at this point with a negative impact on some of the community and a positive one on a very select few. That is worth considering. Whereas fixing WoE would be a huge benefit to a lot more than the select few who would benefit from SM?

Just stop with the sideways comments toward me in your posts. The only reason Valk got mentioned at all is because comparing our supply usage and WoE styles and desires in the game are like comparing apples and oranges.

Stop telling Valhalla / me that we are wrong for wanting different things and having a different priority and then I won't need to point out the huge gaping difference between our guilds. Which may sound horribly negative toward valk but it's not intented that way.

wait... with DG out... does this mean that Morroc get's blown up? while I could see a boon there via being able to do a few quests I never got a chance to do but... isn't there some kind of other way to add in DG WITHOUT blowing up Morroc?

wait... with DG out... does this mean that Morroc get's blown up? while I could see a boon there via being able to do a few quests I never got a chance to do but... isn't there some kind of other way to add in DG WITHOUT blowing up Morroc?

morroc will not be destroyed as there will be another quest to replace the seal of continental guard to access the dg maps enough time wasting with not fixing important woe issues your server is bleeding guilds and players at a rate of extinction. action is require from your staff not sniffing the roses

That's what we've been doing for MONTHS to get them to put in DG (with a handful of tantrums thrown in). Now, when they're doing what we asked and implementing DG, suddenly it's... not good enough? Even though it's what so many people have been asking for?

I think it's important to look at this statement as a whole. Yes, we have been asking for DG for months. However, the GMs seem to act only when it's too late. DG would have been fantastic to have 4-5 months ago. I think times have changed since then. While I do feel the community has a good grasp on what the server needs (most of the time), I'm afraid that the turn-around time of the GMs is so slow that by the time they give the server what it needs, it's too late.

Let me provide an example or two to illustrate my case. Do you know how long gear stayed account bound on this server when the entire server was clamoring for it to be removed? Sure, they finally did it, but after months of tantrums. I am of the opinion that when they finally did it, it was too late. I can personally say I saw many of my friends quitting over that fiasco.

To provide another example, I think the state of Bio3 is a good place to start. The high wizard spawn is something I have looked forward to do for ages. It's still not how the spawn is supposed to be, despite asking this for months. I'm sure eventually they will change their minds and fix it, but I fear it'll be too late.

And that is the story of this server. Updates and fixes this server needs constantly coming in too late.

I was responding to the quote in my last post; I didn't say a single thing about you. It's redonkulous how you can view a comment about ANYTHING and perceive it as something negative about you or your guild. It distracts from anything worthwhile you might say. If I have anything to say to you, I'll say it directly.

It's also funny that you're telling me not to criticize you or your guild for wanting different things and having different priorities when you do that to my guild all the time. I don't care if you want different things. RO is a game that can be played lots of different ways. My problem comes when you (and other guild leaders) recruit a ton of weekend warriors and then whine that you can't supply them all, when you recruited them in the first place.

RO wasn't meant to be played only for WoE. If you choose to WoE, you're meant to level your character until it's WoEable, hunt/ farm gears, and farm supplies (all of which are PvM aspects of the game). Obviously, some things have happened with the game and the people who play it to change that. A lot of people have max level characters with the best gear available right now, so there's no more need to level or farm gear. Some people have time constraints, so they can only be online a few hours a week and don't have the time to farm supplies. Other guildmates pick up the slack for these people. Some even go so far as to make fully leveled and geared characters for others to hop on and play.

And all of this is totally fine. It's a natural evolution to the game as the playerbase gets older and has less time available to them. If you recruit people like this, your forces in WoE will be much stronger, but there's a drawback: you'll have to have active guildmates hunt supplies for them as the won't/ can't do it for themselves. If your guildmates won't/ can't do that, then it falls on you as guildleader to do it. And if you have to hunt enough supplies for 40 people all by yourself, then of course you won't have time for other things. But you knowingly recruited people like that to your guild, so it's your issue to deal with. Either suck it up and get farming, encourage your guildies to spend a portion of their RO time helping out, kick people so you don't have as many supplies to farm, or stop leading a guild. I made a conscious decision not to be a guild leader on this server so I wouldn't have to deal with stuff like that, as I am also getting older and have a limited time I can spend on RO. Yet I find things every week to do to contribute to the growth/ maintenance of the guild I'm in.