I am getting tired of This place.

I would like to first off tell you guys that I was born in this country and I love it dearly. And by all means I am a patriot. I am just getting sick
and tired of the media trying to make us look like we should be proud of everything about our country. Even after everything thats been going on since
9/11. I'm talking about the new movies about Army Patriotism and how we "care" for the people that were fighting for and we will do anything to
save them blah blah blah.... It get really old. Most of us know how our government really is and in no way should we believe that nonsense.

We as Americans get our brains filled with these lies every single day when we turn on the tv. Where are all of the truth seekers and questions that
we all ask? Will we ever get through or all die without? Thats what just makes me sick of how everyone sees this country. I am basically saying that
we don't care about each other anymore every man for himself.

I here you. It's a big hard world. We're all just trying to figure it out.

Calling B.S. about what you see going on is natural and that puts you ahead of most of the sheeple in this country. Change starts with you and what
you decide to do with this frustration. Something positive or someting negative?

Originally posted by scottr.
I am basically saying that we don't care about each other anymore every man for himself.

What you're basically talking about is enlightened self-interest. Which is the idea that you are essentially looking out for Number One, but at the
same time recognizing that often the best way to do that is by creating alliances with people who can help you maximize your returns. It's the old
"win-win" situation, kind of like the Survivor TV show, but without the necessity of cutting the throat of your partner at the end.

But here's a idea. If you don't like it, leave. Get out. In spite of all the paranoid talk about the U.S. a police state, the United States still
has ridiculously open borders. If you want to leave, and go someplace like France or Denmark or Russia or someplace else you think is a whole lot
better, there's really nobody going to lift a finger to stop you. Get a passport (they cost about $45 for the processing fee), and get the hell out.
Go become an expatriate and complain about the U.S. from the outside. I'm sure you'll have a lot of company.

Originally posted by v.i.p.e.r
if its that bad we should all move to australia. girl to guy ratio is 10-1. we all need a long vacation anyway

The Aussies have their own Illuminati mucking things up though.

It's everywhere. Media everywhere is controlled by the same group of people and they are all shoveling the same propaganda.

Is the OP tired of American propaganda or America in general?

Are you tired of seeing criminals run this country into the ground for years on end without a peep from the populace?

Honestly, there is nowhere to run. The entire world is like this now. A cleansing of sorts is on the way and it's going to be painful. Best option
right now is to strengthen our spirits and get our heads back on straight. Our mind body and soul have been toyed with for a long time .

I'll fire a round. I started a thread similar to this a couple days ago, but never responded to it because I couldn't believe the lack of
enlightenment coming my way.

It's okay to stop caring about the name of the place you were born. After all, it IS just the name of the place you were born, and the givernment
built around that name wasn'tn built with your interests in mind, so why should you have to love it?

And who's right is it to tell you to go complain elsewhere? If you don't like it, get out??? No, I don't think so. I, and my friend here, were born
here. We were most likely born into modest lifestyles, and we probably aren't financially secure enough in order to successfully complete a change of
country. I don't think a lot of people are. We are pretty much forced to stay here and just barely scrape by, like most of you are, as well. We have
a right to stay here, and we have a right to point out faults in the system, because it's ours as much as it is yours, and we're not going to let a
bunch of people who are "okay" with the system breaking down let it do so. Also, we want more than just a mechanic with a shiny new suit and a smile
to come fix our mess. We want a mechanic that can actually fix things, no matter how grease covered his over-alls are. Better yet, we wanna learn how
to fix it ourselves. We wanna learn how it works, rip it down completely, and build a brand new system in its place.

We want something that works. Not something that seems to work in the short-term, but breaks down completely after people have stopped paying
attention to it.

To be honest with you, if we knew exactly WHAT would work, we wouldn't be asking more people to open their minds and unwrap themselves from their
patriotic blindfolds. We need help. We don't have all the answers. We're just trying to get people to acknowledge that America is not what it is
supposed to be, and to be weary before blindly shouting in approval of something just because it's been there for a long time and lots of people tell
you it's a good thing.

It is a mental trap, that's all it is.

There's your simple answer, folks.

Why is patriotism bad? Because it places the mind into a box. Any thoughts or ideas that do not work in the face of patriotism do not work at all, and
will almost immediately snuffed away as either delusional or wishful thinking.

World peace is a good example. How can you have world peace in a world so divided by borders and pride in sustaining those borders?

It's very interesting to note that these borders don't actually exist. It's all an implanted idea within the mind. So people are fighting and dying
for ideas. Ideas that aren't really their ideas in the first place, and they very well may not have agreed with the motives behind those ideals if
they were given a chance to judge for themselves whether the ideal was right. Instead, its strongly implied to this person that the idea is right
because it just is, because the country we're fighting for is always right.

That is the flaw of patriotism. It is blind faith, and that is exactly the type of thing denying ignorance is not. Patriotism is ignorance.

And the statements such as "Go try living somewhere else and then see how you feel" or "You obviously have never been in the REAL WORLD" or "If
you don't like it GIIIIT OUT" also reek of ignorance as well, and here's why:

-This isn't the real world. I believe the real world has been, or is in the process of being, fully paved over and substituted with artificial
versions.

- I was born here, but what rulebook states that you have to like and support imaginary ideas that are attatched to the geographical location of your
physical self?

- I know this much. We have enough money we waste on war and disposing of unagreeable governments of the world while replacing them with our own, that
I think all that misery we see when we go anywhere else in the world should be a reminder of why we should CARE about improving it. It should not be
an excuse we use to ignore it, and it MOST DEFINITELY should not be used to make people feel guilty about disagreeing with existing ideas.

- and also this... The only way new ideas happen is if they are allowed to replace or renew the old ones. We've had many new ideas over the years,
and the reason being given as to why they are never implemented? Politics, nationalism, patriotism, nation-states and their fight for survival.
We must remove complications to our species in order for it to work smoothly again. Politics is not simple, and there's a really good reason for
that. Distraction.

As a non-American who harbours no animosity towards the USA in general, or - most especially! - against its people, I can tell you that, from my
perspective, it might be a good idea to stop feeding the American people the old phrase "the best country in the world". (Mostly because NO country
is "the best" in the world.)

It may sound like a trifle: could a phrase make much difference?
Yes, it could.
Anyone who's aware of the power of the word could tell you that words, especially if they are repeated over and over again, can have a noticeable
impact - especially in a country where a sizable portion of its inhabitants haven't travelled outside their homeland.

The same goes for another stereotype I have heard and read many times: that only "America" (meaning the US!) has civil liberties, "freedom and
justice for all", that sort of things.

Now imagine feeding such lines to a citizen of the USA who has never travelled outside their country... That would keep him quiet, wouldn't it?
(I mean, think about it: you are discontent with the state of your country - but you keep hearing that it still is "the best country in the world".
The rationale is quite simple.)

Words can breed fascism - or at least appeal to the little fascist that lurks inside each one of us, and awake him.

I'm trying to keep an open mind here and I think about the past and I realize that this country (USA) has always been messed up in some way or
another but we're still standing. We had the history of killing and moving the Indians. We've had the American revolution, civil wars, slavery,
world wars, Vietnam, poverty, cold wars and depressions. We had good presidents and bad presidents. Taxes and hundreds if not thousands of tax
codes. We've had assassinations, disasters, diseases, murderers, rapist, child molesters, religion, drugs, gangs and mobsters, accidents, hatred and
a lot of good things too but I won't mention all that. All these people that are running America were the hippies and flower children that marched
in front of Washington and protested Vietnam and won. The sad thing was they treated our soldiers like crap when they returned. This whole world has
a history of messed up politics, corruption, wars, drugs and power struggles and through all this time we haven't been able to change much and keep
repeating the others. So what, this country and the world is screwed up. I don't see a country sitting on the steps of Washington D.C. and doing
anything about it.

The situation in this country is going downhill fast with no end in sight. I don't see things improving after Bush leave presidency since the only
person that can change this country for the better (Ron Paul) can't win.

As for the guy telling you to leave the country if you don't like what it has become (Nohup), you're an idiot. Instead of simply accepting the fact
that your government is becoming more and more corrupt or giving up and emigrating, you should complain and try to change it in any way you can. If
all people were like you then we would still be a British colony.

It's been going down hill ever since man arrived! What makes it any different now? Conspiracy is a theory based idea from an individual who
inspired more of their kind to join in a group therapy session. They take one side of the story and mold it into their own without the true facts.
There's refuge camps all over the world and if you can't stand America then try something new.

Saying that the situation in the US is bad is not the same as saying that it is the worst possible place to live. Obviously there are worse countries
out there, but why should i be ok with my country falling apart? There is still hope, so i think i'll stick around unless things get much worse.

I really don't need you or anybody telling me where i should live. Please keep those opinions to yourself.

I understand how you feel, I think most of us here in the U.S. on this site understand.

Just remember though, put your concerns in perspective here...The next time you feel disgruntled about our country, or unpatriotic or just feel down
about the economy...

Just remember, the poorest of our ghettos, our Appalachian communities, our homeless...live better lives then most inhabitants of any 3rd world
country out there.

This country of ours is a paradise compared to most other places...and if you think it's not? Go live in India for a week, or Bosnia, North Korea,
Haiti, The Darfur region of Africa, Afghanistan, anywhere in the Middle East for that matter....

Most of the top 20 industrialized nation's governments are as screwed up as ours....they're receiving media propaganda too....it's not a bed of
roses anywhere on this planet right now.

I was always a bit of a liberal Democrat, but now I'm much more moderate. I don't know who I should vote for: Clinton/Obama, McCaine or Paul. A vote
for Paul is wasted. A vote for McCaine will see the war through.

I think that, if the Democrats WIN the election, the USA might be even worse off than it is now. Pelosi and her crew have disappointed me.

BUT...

Counter this with a post 911 / pre Iraq invasion...where I was chatting with a man from Beaverton, Oregon. He was adamant that the Muslims attacked
the USA because the USA is "NUMBER ONE". He went on to explain that "MIDDLE EASTERNERS ARE DIFFERENT! They're not normal; they have children
trained to be human bombs!" and whatnot.

So, for me, "Going to France" has certainly changed my perspective. I tend to think that Americans are ignorant and their politics are muddled and
queer.

F

PS - Where I live in New Zealand (South Auckland), there's a huge violent crime rate, alcoholism, gang violence, et cetera. I vow that I'll move out
as soon as is reasonably possible. Maybe to Oz...?

The whole point I'm trying to make! It's not one country or another's problems that we have right now. It's EVERYONE's problem, yet the USA and
some of its most adamant followers act as though nobody else is capable, while at the same time making things worse.

The problem is that all of the multi-national outfits in charge of global problem solving have been made by the same corrupt people that made our
government so corrupt...

My opinion is that change will not, and should not, be made at the governmental level....

Our government acts as though government is the answer, when in actuality government should only be a tool.

That's the reason our government has been so highly revered by its citizens in the first place. It HAD that reputation of the people's choice. Now,
it has come a far cry from that original vision, no doubt shaped much in part by the corporate takeover that's gone on very gradually since the
founding of the nation. Which begs the question: "If the founding fathers knew and warned of this danger (which they did both of), why didn't they
take steps in order to prevent that from ever happening by making our foundations a little more impervious towards a trend that they could see was a
formidable opponent to a democratic republic?"

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