Herald optimism misplaced

As students of comparative civil-military relations, we were surprised to read theHerald’s editorial, “Coup’s failure hopeful sign for democracy.” We see no positives resulting from the aborted coup. Instead we foresee the death throes of a painstakingly crafted secular, albeit imperfect, democracy, that has been under siege since the election of Recep Erdogan as Prime Minister in 2003 and President in 2014.

The cornerstones of Turkish democracy were an apolitical professional military, an independent secular judiciary, and a multiparty electoral system characterised by a separation of powers and a system of checks and balances between the executive and legislative branches.

Granted, Kemal Ataturk’s nationalism, which bound the country together in the wake of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, often worked to stifle free speech and repress ethnic minorities, notably the Kurds. Turkish democracy has also always been “guarded”, meaning that the military has on occasion acted as unelected veto-player. Yet since the rise of Erdogan to power 16 years ago, things have gotten incrementally but steadily worse.

Since he assumed office, Erdogan has undermined the judiciary by appointing ideological cronies and firing or arresting independent-minded jurists; sacked hundreds of senior military officers and replaced them with loyalists; introduced mandatory Islamic Studies into military curricula; censored, banned and/or arrested non-supplicant media outlets and reporters; rigged electoral rules in favour of his own party; and instituted constitutional amendments designed to perpetrate his rule and re-impose Sharia precepts on public institutions (something not seen since the days of the Ottomans).

He has alleged it is the work of some exile in the US. Not a shred of evidence has been produced to back this up. But on the basis of this allegation, he has purged judges, police, civil servants and academics. He’s even banned academics from overseas travel without permission.

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Comments (29)

mikenmild

Not every military coup or other irregular transfer of power needs to be automatically regarded as a bad thing.
There are supporters of Fiji who think that the Bainimarama coup has led to less corruption and a purer democracy. I think the ultimate test of that will be whether Bainimarama would concede power to a democratically elected rival.
Every revolution could be condemned and a ‘coup’ or otherise illegal usurpation of established power structures.
A military coup in Turkey might not be , in itself, praiseworthy, but the ultimate test is going to be based on what the country looks like in a few years.

eszett

virtualmark

In essence Erdogan is a dictator. A more sophisticated than usual dictator, but a dictator nonetheless.

We can all expect he will stand again for President in 2019. What will be interesting to see is what moves he makes regarding the term limits which would see him have to stand down as President in 2024.

tom hunter

I fear elections will be the next to go.

I think that Western democrats often put elections ahead of other institutions of a civil society: a stable system of law and order (the laws themselves, the police, the courts, the prisons), the military under civilian control, the media, the concept of a loyal opposition, and basically the way people just deal with eachother in their everyday lives of work, leisure, relationships (including the semi-formal ones of marriage)

If those things are damaged or lacking (think of the “honour deaths” that so litter the Islamic world), then all the elections in the world count for nothing. It’s something that the US has only painfully come to realise about the Middle East in the wake of the Iraq situation, after having thought it had “imposed” most of these things onto German and Japanese societies – whereas many of them had been present, if flawed, in those countries. In many respects that’s what Ataturk did almost a century ago, in his determination to make Turkey into a modern nation that would not be humiliated as it had been in WW1. He did his best, but it obviously has not taken many years to reverse much of what he did.

Erdogan is damaging most of them, and he may well destroy some completely before he’s done. If that happens then elections won’t count for shit in Turkey.

Southern Raider

And who was the first to denounce the coup? That’s right liberals and Islamists

You can understand the Islamists support but why is it liberals you would suspect would be the first to rally against firing judges, firing academics and locking up journalists always back the dictators

s.russell

As a liberal I deplore what Erdogan has done, but I also cannot condone usurpation of democratically elected authority. This is, alas, a lose-lose situation, but one that Turkish voters have bought upon themselves.

Captain Mainwaring

kowtow

Looking at the pictures of the arrested coupists reminded me , not of a democracy aspirant to European values and membership but of ISIS and how they abuse their prisoners……
…..same with Erdogans’ post coup rallies , with cries of Allahu Akbar and mobs braying calls for revengeful killings.

And I have no doubt the European elites will overlook this and still push for Turkish membership.

Yes, I agree that had the coup (assuming it was real) succeded it would have been a better outcome. The Erdogan government had already begun the oppression of Christian by siezing churches and making them state property. And I don’t buy Erdogan’s excuse as to why they are doing so.

Harriet

Muslims only thrive under military rule as sharia law stunts their growth. Turkey was another example of professional militaries having the capabilities in assisting secular govts in running a modern society – or at least transitioning to one – Turkey was for years a popular western holiday and business destination. That is no longer so. I myself in the late ’90’s was looking at buying a holiday home in Turkey.

Without sharia law becoming the law islam is then as benign as any other religion, as people do not then have to submit.
Muslims are just ordinary humans – except they follow an ideology of submission to religion AND state – that has to be constantly policed and disallowed from becoming law.

The state must not give support to sharia law under any circumstance. Giving support to muslims is a different thing all together; supporting muslim Turkey under military rule is far different to supporting those who want elements of sharia law placed into your local council law, supporting muslims in Turkey is far superior to supporting your local muslims with sharia law. All muslims are different – and those espressing sharia law should be heavily policed and censured.

Rachael Membery

Can we repatriate our war dead?(I know not realistic) I do not think that Ataturk’s sentiments regarding ‘our sons’ will necessarily hold. Sorry to be selfish but what does this mean for our Gallipoli commemorations?

deadrightkev

kowtow

Rachael

Our war dead are on European soil. Soil that was worked by Christian Greeks until the central Asian Turk expelled them from the peninsula. Ataturk was a senior officer there, did he take part in that genocide?

What Europe needs to do is re take Asia Minor from the invading Asian hordes and restore what was once Europe , in populace , if not geographically.

But of course that will never happen, not while European “leaders” literally invite millions of the third world to take over the heart of Europe , destroy its social institutions and soak up all its public finances.

Jack5

The Hooerald is pretty rubbishy these days.

In addition to it’s ignorance about Turkey and Erdogan, I was surprised to read the garbage by a so-called “futurist” in today’s edition saying she fears NZ is in danger of “missing the digital wave”. Turns out to be a plug for seminars.

Kowtow and JMS in their posts at 1.36 and 1.39 are right about the Turks, the Armenian genocide, and the Gallipoli tours. Some of the handful of NZ prisoners taken at Gallipoli were among the British prisoners forced to clean caked blood out of Christian churches in Istanbul where Christian Armenian men, women, and children were butchered.

The Gallipoli tourists seldom know anything about the NZ mounted brigade’s campaign through Palestine and into Syria fighting the Turks. IMHO, that is much more merits commemoration than the Gallipoli campaign. The Gallipoli tourists also seldom know that the British (including Indian) and French suffered at least as much as the Anzacs at Gallipoli. They seldom know about the bravery of the Royal Navy’s crews on the second-line battle fleet as it fought in Dardenelles.

tranquil

Democracy will always struggle in a place like Turkey.

Given that democracy is a “man-made” Western construct, it is anathema to Islam (in which the only valid government derives from shari’a – the laws of Allah). Even though Turkey is supposedly secular, it’s still a country of Muslims.

G152

simpleton1

“However, democracy cannot be defined as the existence of parliaments and elections alone.”
Recep Tayyip Erdogan

What should be targeted is a concept of organic, and not just mechanic, democracy that preserves the rule of law, separation of powers, and that is participatory and pluralistic.
Recep Tayyip Erdogan

The purpose cannot be creating self-styled democracies, but rather encouraging steps that are conducive to establishing democratic rule at universal standards. Obviously, this would be a formidable journey
Recep Tayyip Erdogan

It is essential that policy instruments be developed that would firmly establish democratization on the basis of social consensus and enable transformation on stable grounds. yeah right
Recep Tayyip Erdogan

Erdogan said that, “Democracy is like a train: when you reach your destination, you get off.”

What is markedly less known is that during the same period he repeatedly explained his ideology .

Erdogan is on video saying: “You cannot be both secular and a Muslim! You will either be a Muslim, or secular! When both are together, they create reverse magnetism [i.e.they repel one another]. For them to exist together is not a possibility! Therefore, it is not possible for a person who says “I am a Muslim” to go on and say “I am secular, too.” And why is that? Because Allah, the creator of the Muslim, has absolute power and rule!”http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/comments/22659

A guy who “runs with the hares and hunts with the hounds” but many just are gullible and apply wishful western way of thinking and so ignore discrepancies.

mikenmild

tranquil
I think you might find that there are quite a few places where democracy ‘struggles’: Central and South America, Africa, Russia, South-East Asia…
Not just a Muslim problem, more of a human problem.

kowtow

So did Hope and Change Obummer. He’s blowing up Syrians as well as funding beheaders…..but dat’s Oh kay man cos he black….and the beheading was a mistake.

“The United States, which has previously provided military support to the Nour al-Din al-Zinki Movement, said it was “seeking more information” and that it could not confirm the “appalling report” at a press briefing on Tuesday.”

So make as much fun as you like but Obummer, Camoron and Hollande have done a great job fucking up Libya and Syria, what a legacy for these progressives, Failed states , genocide , mass refugees and migration, fucking brilliant.

tas

artemisia

There is a well worn illegal migrant path from Turkey to Greece. If some of the sacked judges, academics, teachers etc find their way to Greece, will they be accepted as refugees? We could usefully take some here.