My goal is to inform potential law school students and applicants of the ugly realities of attending law school. DO NOT ATTEND UNLESS: (1) YOU GET INTO A TOP 8 LAW SCHOOL ON SCHOLARSHIP; (2) YOU GET A FULL-TUITION SCHOLARSHIP TO ATTEND; (3) YOU HAVE EMPLOYMENT AS AN ATTORNEY SECURED THROUGH A RELATIVE OR CLOSE FRIEND; OR (4) YOU ARE FULLY AWARE BEFOREHAND THAT YOUR HUGE INVESTMENT IN TIME, ENERGY, AND MONEY DOES NOT, IN ANY WAY, GUARANTEE A JOB AS AN ATTORNEY OR IN THE LEGAL INDUSTRY.

Tuesday, November 23, 2010

Can You Say “Lawyer Overproduction”? Iowa’s Attorney Population Has Increased by 32 Percent in the Last Nine Years

As of September 14, 2010, Iowa only gained 264 more attorneys. Also, 89.189% of all test-takers passed the bar exam, i.e. 264/296. I know, for a fact, that many of the people on this list are NOT working as attorneys.

Oh well. I am sure they are happy with that investment they made in themselves. And I am certain that Sallie Mae and the other student lending pigs will be more than happy to work with the under-employed and unemployed grads, too. I’m also pretty confident that Salma Hayek will throw me on the kitchen floor and climb on top of me this Thanksgiving, as well.

According to this document, 2,137 attorneys were added to Iowa’s rolls in the 8 years from 2002-2009. This does not include those who passed the 2010 exam. Adding those, 2,466 Iowa attorneys were admitted in the last 9 years. Keep in mind this does not count lawyers who were admitted under reciprocity agreements. (To be fair, some attorneys licensed in Iowa are admitted in several states, and may not actually reside in the state.)

The US Census Bureau estimates that there were 3,007,856 people residing in Iowa – as of 2009. You can also see that the Census shows that the population of this state increased by 2.8% from April 1, 2000 to July 1 2009 - whereas total U.S. population increased by 9.1 percent during this same time.

These figures were compiled by the American Bar Association Market Research Department. Yet the bastards cannot tell us how many lawyers are unemployed or barely subsisting. Anyway, this chart purports to show the number of licensed attorneys by state. We can see that Iowa had 7,036 licensed lawyers as of December 31, 2008. Since that time, 290 were added in 2009 and 329 more in 2010. In the last two years alone, Iowa’s lawyer population increased by 8.8 percent!!

Going off the Iowa bar results for the last two years, plus the ABA chart referenced above, we can say there are about 7,655 attorneys in the state. Of that amount, 2,466 were admitted in the last 9 years. This represents an increase of 32.2% in the last nine years. Well, we already know from the U.S. Census Bureau that Iowa’s population only increased by an estimated 2.8% from April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2009.

What’s that you say, persistent moron preparing to take the LSAT for the third time?! The state can handle 7,655 attorneys? Let’s put that to the test.

Going by the figures above, there is one licensed attorney for every 392.9 Iowa residents, i.e. 3,007,856/7,655. So, it has not reached the saturation level of New York or DC. However, a state such as Iowa does not require a ton of lawyers. This might explain why so many of these recently admitted Iowa attorneys are unable to find legal positions.

Even Third Tier Drake, based out of that third tier city, Des Moines, claims a 94.7% employment placement rate – within 9 months of graduation, of course. This school has the outright audacity to say that 94.7% of its graduates are employed within nine months, even though these four “Honors” and “High Honors” graduates felt the need to start their own toiletlaw firm.

In the last analysis, there are too many lawyers in the state of Iowa. How the hell can a population that has grown by 2.8% in over 9 years support a 32% increase in the number of attorneys, over largely the same nine year period?!?! The population increase in attorneys is essentially 11.5 times greater than the increase in the state’s general population.

40 comments:

That is one hellish growth rate. It's not sustainable. My guess is that the law schools are onto this and are now just trying to milk it for all it is worth. Take in as many as possible and then confer upon them a juris doctorate in 3 years time. With no regard as to how these chumps will make a living after their education is complete.

Of all of the "scamblogs" I've seen, yours is the most useless. The facts that you post speak for themselves. We all know the reality. Your "commentary" really doesn't help your cause. Do you really think the way your conduct yourself in your blog posts is going to help you? Or help readers make informed decisions? Maybe your heart's in the right place, but if I were you I'd tone down the shit talk.

We all know the reality? Really? If that's true then why do students keep enrolling in law school. Why do most baby boomers, including my parents, still consider law a lucrative profession? And the general point of a blog is not to just post facts, which is in itself useful, but to attract the reader through the blogger's opinion. However, I would like to see Samford University still!

I can assure you that the stats from U of Iowa are outright lies. The stats are bad enough, but the people who run that place compound it by making false statements to the press.

Not long ago, the incompetent fool they just booted out from the Dean position made a statement about how Iowa had experienced no problems with employment and been having high placement/employment rates all through the total deconstruction of the legal profession currently taking place.

Then, after the law school again posted lies about employment rates, the incompetent fool they have in the CSO stated that the current market was the worst she's seen in 23 years. Well, which is it . . . the market is terrible and grads from Iowa can't get jobs, or your reported stats are outright lies?

The inability of their graduates to obtain gainful employment in the legal profession has no impact whatsoever, though, on the cushy salaries provided to the faculty and administration.

How many more students need to be excreted out of these diploma factories before you understand the reality? Yes I agree with you. The facts speak for themselves. A 32 percent increase in 9 years is one incredible number. Look up sustainability. You obviously don't know the meaning of the word.

There are more lawyers in the United States than car mechanics. At what point do you stop calling being a lawyer a white collar profession? I say the legal profession is a brown collar profession for all the shit JD grads that these schools defecate on an annual basis. Speaking of Iowa, the U. of Iowa law school is one of the most overrated law schools in the country. Granted I only met 2 grads from this school, however, both were complete mental midgets.

Evolution of a Attorney career:10 years ago: Graduated and expected to practice LAw.6 years ago: Graduated and hoped after 5 years thing would get better.5 years ago: Graduated and resolved to rough it out for 5 years then see what to do.4 years ago: Graduated and hoped to practice two to three years then move on.2 years ago: Hoped for a legal job, any kind.1 year ago: hoped for any kind of job.can it get worse???

This entry discussed former litigator Dan Slater’s piece entitled, “Lock the law school doors” – which appeared in the New York Times back on September 2, 2009.

Look at this gem, from the Professor Bainbridge piece:

“The solution is obvious, although how we can find the ability and the will to do it is not. We have to reduce the number of law schools. Just like GM has to close plants because of over-capacity, we in the law have to close some of our "factories."

From the first comment on this article:

“I think that this is just more proof that whether you're talking a law school dean or a partner in a big firm, lawyers are one of the few species that routinely eat their young.”

The over-production of lawyers is certainly not endemic to Iowa, or to any single state. The glut of attorneys affects the entire nation. Those now considering law school are taking a terrible risk. Skyrocketing tuition coupled with a shrinking lawyer job market is not a solid formula for success.

The law schools bill themselves as providing an “education” and a degree that will serve their students and graduates well – “no matter what they choose to do with their lives.” The reality of the situation is this: a JD is not a versatile degree. Non-legal employers will view the law graduate suspiciously, during the entire application and interview process.

Such employers will want to know why you are “turning down the big bucks” to work for them.

“But the limited number of schools may be one reason why law school tuitions are so high, according to U.S. News & World Report. It’s all about supply and demand, the magazine says in a response to an ABA report posted at the Morse Code blog.”

Of course, the academics and industry shills are clueless about the job market. They think that the solution is to accredit MORE law schools. After all, the job of a professional organization is to ensure that more people can attend “professional school” – REGARDLESS of the job market, right?!?! Why don’t the ADA and AMA accredit more dental and medical schools, so that we can have a corresponding glut of dentists and physicians?!

You can take the Iowa bar and, presuming you pass, waive into Nebraska by motion, getting 2 admissions for one exam (though you still have to pay both states, of course). However, the reverse isn't true; you can't take Nebraska's exam and be admitted by motion into Iowa.

Most Creighton students now take the Iowa exam instead of Nebraska's, even if they intend to practice in Omaha or otherwise stay in Nebraska. This wasn't the case 10 years ago.

Omaha is Warren Buffet Land,and Banking Land for some reason. A lot of banks have their headquarters there.

Nebraska is home of the Big banks, and now that one thinks about it, it stands to reason that the banking industry would try to foster and encourage relationshiops with the neighboring states.

I always sort of look at a map of the US and ask: how the Hell do all the people make a living here, or there or there, or Canada even.If I understand it correctly, there are a lot of missle silos and deep caves ful of old rusting barrels of nuclear waste all around the US midwest.

But I'll never forget the way that Nebraska was a highly influential state, and the only state that managed to strike a special deal with respect to early attempts at Health Care reform a couple years ago.

Does anyone remember that? A fellow--Nelson? Not sure if I remember the name correctly.

Then the bill failed.

and @7:57 sounds young. Sort of Loves Nando, sort of doesn't. He or she will get over it.

Did anyone notice that those 4 TTTlawyers all wore matching red power ties, starched white shirts and black suits? One wonders whether thier wives or mothers made sure they color coordinated. Another thing to note: of the four young men pictured, only one does not suffer from aggressively thinning hair.

That might provide the inept 0L with some idea of how stressful law school is. (Mostly the high cost and shitty job market weighs on your mind constantly.)

Since law schools seem to teach too many useless courses (e.g., Feminist Legal Theory, The Race and the Law, Archipielago Real Estate Law, etc.), perhaps the TTTs can teach a seminar on how to dress like a lawyer. I agree with 5:45 about black suits being inappropriate attire for law. Are you a fucking mortician or a lawyer?

I am in my mid 40s and I can tell you I look more youthful than those kiddie lawyers. Is that what life in Iowa does to you? And yes, there are many bald men in the law. Also, I am willing to bet 3 of the 4 guys pictured have erectile dysfunction as the stress of the law usually causes a chemical shift of testosterone that is depleted by hours consumed in sifting through mediocre legal issues rather than spent on getting laid. Six figure debt, a worthless JD diploma, no hair and no sex drive =a life not worth living.

I left the law a while back. Stumbled on these blogs by accident. (My immature nephew has his heart set on LS. Of course, the ingrate won't listen to his former attorney uncle. So I tried to find some articles on this dying profession.) To the point, I in my 40s look younger than many of the youg lawyers I see out there.

I have good posture. Contrast that to the slumped shoulders, pot bellies and crooked spines that you see on many lawyers out there practicing. My hair has only a hint of gray near the temples. I still have a good hairline and a thick crown. I am pretty stress free. I don't worry about deadlines or whether I missed a call from some asshole in the office at 2 am. I can go to the late movie or a basketball game without worrying that some asshole will call me ito the office on an urgent matter. (As far as I'm concerned, the only urgent matters are if your kid is sick, you have been diagnosed with a terminal illness, your wife goes into labor, or you lost your job.)

And best of all, I am still married to the same woman and I enjoy time with my kids. How many lawyers can say the same? Often, their kids hate their guts. That's a nice reward, aint it? You see some of the old school types telling us that spending time with one's family is for weak sissies. At the end of your life's story, that's all you have. Will anyone give a shit that you helped 84 year old Doris Williams plan her small estate when you are put into the ground? Or will your loved ones respect and miss having you around?

Look at this article from June 3, 2009, which proclaims that accreditation review may prompt a “sea change” in the law school evaluation process.

“The most significant change in the Standards for Approval of Law Schools is likely to be a move away from evaluating law schools on the basis of criteria that measure “input”—such things as faculty size, budget and physical plant. Instead, the Legal Education Section would evaluate law schools more heavily on the basis of “outcome” measures.”

And how will these “outcome measures” be defined?

“They said bar passage rates of a law school’s graduates will likely be just one measure.

“Knowledge, skills and ethics are the key pillars to a legal education” Johnson said. “The question we’re asking is, does a traditional legal education do the best job on these?”

So, the best way to measure outputs is to not take into account job placement?!?! Thanks for clearing that up, you filthy pigs.

With such logic by the academic pinheads, it is no surprise that these morons are now considering accrediting foreign law schools. Because that will help alleviate the glut of American attorneys, right?!?!

Can someone explain how approving more law schools – foreign and domestic – will create more lawyer jobs? Would anyone care to defend this treacherous conduct?

Eleventh-ranked Duke Law School must pay provide a stipend to its unemployed graduates so that they can work for a few months – at no cost to the employer!! Yes, that is a great development, isn’t it?!

The person telling that Mike and John fable snipered Nando's November 10th (Mercy Law School) post too!

Trying to get the last word ey?

Well let's reiterate for those unacquainted with the story. It goes something like this:

Mike is bad, stupid and lazy. Has a bad attitudeand has a scowl on his face, with a menacing curl to his lip. When Mike is not scowling, he is pouting. Mike is mean and dirty. He slouches, and he shuffles when he walks. Never looks people in the eye, and smells, and is sloppy. A veritable Ogre, schlumping around in Law and not making very much of a success of it at all.

OK that takes care of Mike.

John, on the other hand, has a cool and clear complexion. He is all serenity and happiness. John's attitude is all sunshine and roses. John is a graceful, kind and benevolent chap. By extension, everything John touches turns to gold. His rose-blossom lips often form a ready and an easy smile. And all are attracted to, and Love little Johnny, because he is such a good boy! John's character is outstanding and flawless. And John is a big success in Law.

Anyway, that is the legend of Mike and John.Or John and Mike. Frankly I might have mixed their names up. But regardless, does anyone really buy or believe the Mike/John legend? In whole or in part?

The Sniper does. Determined to get the last word to the end. Darting in to make a comment when no one is on watch, and least suspects it.

'When not in the office, Jonah loves to spend time with his wife Jenni and his three children, ages 4, 3, and 1.'

OK. Someone please explain to me how this young guy was able to support his three kids while he was in law school, on journal of ag law, moot court and other internships. Was his wife making good money while pumping out kids left and right? Jonah and Jenni. God, I hate couples that have similar names. Makes me want to puke in the nearest toilet.

BTW, good find on that forthcoming law review article. I wnet to see that profile too. What's that smell? Its called the stench of a TTT law degree.

Okay - on that KESD Law site - these guys need an image consultant. Not necessarily new suits and hair, but someone should take them aside and tell them that unless you look like a supermodel or that you could sleep with more than one, you shouldn't be putting yourselves as the selling point of the firm. None of these guys could ever land a movie role. Thus, they should not be putting smiling near-full-body shots on the front page. I've never understood attorneys who do things like this. If you really want people to know who they're dealing with, put an action shot - making a feverish closing argument or helping a MILF client. Or at least do a group picture in front of your expansive law library. But a JC Penney studio portrait of all four of you in dark suits, white shirts, and red ties isn't going to endear anyone to your product when you have a poor smile, a double chin, and two doses of balding awkwardness staring at the potential client.

It is beyond sad that these diploma mills are producing so many ill prepared lawyers. I notice these guys mention their moot court and journal exp. Does anyone really give a shit? Does arguing fake cases in a controlled setting really prepare one to be a trial lawyer?

It looks like even those that graduate with high honors from these third tier shitholes are relegated to starting up their own firms. In today's market this is a sign of desperation. The fugly JC Penney suits, Sears ties and $6 haircuts bring that home. I don't care what some 0L moron has to say about this. These retards haven't been to law school yet so their opinion doesn't count. It would be like asking a 7 year old about physics.

These four men may be smart and passionate. That won't matter much when they come across experienced and battle tested litigators. Some of the best attorneys I know are not very intelligent. But they can gauge a jury, the court and the overall atmosphere. This is how they win cases or bring the other side to the negiotiating table. These kids will learn the ropes by losing cases. In time these clowns may develop some real skills and help their clients win favorable outcomes. The question to ask is how many clients will be fucked over in the provcess.

Those guys at the KESD website are ridiculous. They look like total rubes. You know why? They are. No one in their right mind would hire these guys - they don't have a lick of experience doing anything in life, they don't know shit about how to practice law and anything they touch would be open to challenges of malpractice. These guys all came out of Drake. Enough said.

As far as the other law school in Iowa, the U of Iowa law school used to be fairly reputable, but that was before that buffoon Dean Jones was hired. The really good faculty has either resigned and gone on to greener pastures or retired. No one in their right mind would hire an Iowa grad at the big-city market rate of $160K.

At this point, unless you're gay, lesbian, female, a funtionally illiterate minority, or well connected and have a job lined up because of connections, do not under any circumstances attend U of Iowa for law school.

This is because of the reciprocity rules between Nebraska and Iowa. Any attorney who will practice in the Omaha area will take the bar in Iowa and waive into Nebraska. I am a 3L a UNL. Most UNL grads now take the Iowa bar, then waive in so that if they ever practice in Omaha they can practice on both sides of the river.

A substantial portion of those who pass the Iowa bar will never actually practice in Iowa.

That being said, there are still to many lawyers and this blog still kicks major ass.

Sometimes things in life are more important than living. Such as living with a horrible life of Student Loan Debt, and risking one's life in exposing the terible coruption of the Law School Scam Mafia.

But here is a little ditty/ Chestnut, while alifornia is sleeping. And to be played over coffee:

Again, the truth about how the Law School Indusry destroys lives, and surely the big bad Wolves from the rest of the World will come out of the forest and devour the US, and care not a thing about the US and its petty conflicts and ideals.

Because the US, as many drowning a swimmer will do, decided to drown and sink its own, afer the Hippies took over the Universities, and could not even deliver something so much as a basic education in return for the Hippie Generation vanity and desire to stay afloat, even if it meant borrowing money from the rest of the world.

Hippies are like a vampire, or an abused child.

Feel sorry for the bitten and the abused, but the abused and often spoiled WW II era baby boomer children, the Hippie Children, will sooner or later turn around and abuse other people themselves.

Feel sorry, of course, for the innocent person bitten by the Hippie or Vampire. But Vampires. like Zombies will live again.

That is common knowledge.

But the American Woodstock Generation has taken over all of US education, and has wreaked more havoc on the US citizen, and the Wrld than any other previous generation. They are Hippies and Monsters. And of course, represent the worst form of Hypocrisy and double dealing as they now scramble in old age and try to hope that everyone forgets that they were supposed to be all about youth and change.

And hope that everyone forgets about all the lives that were wasted in the Iraq War by guess who? The Hippie Generation.

Oh Yeah, the Bomber Jet Planes turned into Butterflies. Sure. Sure.

As Benny Hill said: "Woodstick" was lots of fun for every Girl and Boy!

Interesting blog and as an Loyola alum who passed the bar sixteen years ago, I liked to add some more information about the post law school world , and how I learned to stop worrying about my student loans First if you are not top tier forget about getting a job in a law firm. From My second year of law school on, I went weekly to the career center look through their job notebooks, even interviewed but could not get a job. However I persevered. Passed the bar. Found work for an attorney who turned out to be a crook. This created problems with the State Bar and left me with other debt and made employment impossible At this point I discovered that the State Bar is a lawyer’s enemy unless you are a big attorney then all you have to do is donate money to Loyola for an ethics center. Otherwise your just a target to build up their discipline statistics without any real regard to actually protecting the public. Also, the clients’ use the State Bar as a weapon to extort money from you and get out of paying your attorney fees. At a recent MCLE class I heard a judge state that in 50% per cent of all attorney fee lawsuits the Defendant client files a cross-complaint for malpractice. And by the way challenge a judge and end-up disbarred and in jail. Check out the story of former attorney Richard Fine Well after sixteen years of practice, I owe over one hundred and fifteen thousand dollars in student loans. ($115,000.00) But I do not get a tax refund and I am self-employed so the lender could not garnish my wages. One lender actually sued and I made payments until a year ago. I sent them my personal balance sheet and my monthly personal budget and state bar history, and I guess they decided it was worth the attorney time to enter the judgment. Now the department of education assumes my defaulted loans which are part of the estimated 730 billion dollars of which only 40% is actually being paid. The rest of the loans are in default or deferment But why I do not worry about my student loans. Well the federal government with over 14 trillion in debt will eventually collapse so no agency will be around to try to collect on my loans

Do you really think the way your conduct yourself in your blog posts is going to help you? My guess is that the law schools are onto this and are now just trying to milk it for all it is worth...........NicFind Attorney

On April 25, 2011, Third Tier Drake posted the following entry, entitled “Four Drake Law Graduates Open Firm in Des Moines.” Here is an excerpt:

“The Drake Legal Clinic did not just give four Drake Law students a great legal education, it also gave them the opportunity to meet one another and begin a journey that culminated in the opening of Kemp Eason Sease & Dyer, a general practice firm. During law school they had the opportunity to write briefs to the Iowa Supreme Court, present oral arguments in front of the Iowa Court of Appeals and represent clients in need through the legal clinic. These experiences helped them with the confidence to start a practice.

“Chris (Kemp) LW’09, Matt (Sease) LW’10, Jonah (Dyer) LW’10 and I all met in the Drake Legal Clinic. Each of us took advantage of the opportunities Drake Law offers to interact with the legal community by participating in the Criminal Defense Clinic, Advanced Criminal Defense Clinic, the Appellate Clinic and prosecutorial and judicial internships” explained Tyler Eason LW’10. “After actively participating in the practice of law during these clinical experiences, the four of us decided that we wanted to be in those courtrooms as soon as possible.”

According to this propaganda piece, these four knuckleheads officially opened Kemp Eason Sease & Dyer on October 1, 2010. Notice how the commode tries to claim some credit for this partnership of desperate attorneys.

http://kesdlaw.blogspot.com/2011/02/kesd-blog.html

The last blog entry, for this firm, was posted on February 7, 2011. Apparently, these attorneys were not serious when they made the following blog comment: “Our lawyers will update this blog with posts about Iowa law, new caselaw (sic) analysis, and discuss hypothetical situations.”

http://kempseasedyer.com/

You will notice that KESD is now Kemp Sease & Dyer. What the hell happened to Mr. Eason?!?! This fearsome foursome/barbershop quartet is now merely a trifecta. Perhaps, he and his family preferred to eat food, pay their bills, and have a decent income.

http://www.iowa-icaa.com/Roster/Roster%20of%20CAACAs%20emaillinks.pdf

You can see from this December 13, 2011 document – from the Iowa County Attorneys Association – that Tyler Eason left the law firm to work as an assistant prosecutor for Mahaska County, Iowa. For $ome rea$on, Third Tier Drake did not bother to cover this development. Would they claim any credit or blame for the reduction in this firm?

The law firm mentioned in the blog post and irrationally yet endlessly berated with complaints that normally would be found on the E channel's fashion police (where they sound just as petty) is just a group of guys who started their own firm.

There is no real reason for that firm to be mentioned in this blog post, nor for any of the mindlessly negative comments based on a website by the posters.

Which makes me wonder what the authors or posters grudge is against the firm? Or for that matter, seemingly against any graduates that have found jobs, regardless of the connection or lack thereof to any arguments against the pedagogical value of law schools today and/or the effect of their becoming large businesses on the validity of their marketing claims.

You don't have to shit talk on good people to make cogent arguments. Have some decency. It Hurts, not helps, your position.

Objective

This blog is maintained by a graduate of a third tier law school. My goal is to educate prospective law students about the perils of obtaining a legal education. There are many pitfalls - the debt load, the oversupply of lawyers, the fact that there are not enough legal jobs to satisfy nearly 45,000 annual law graduates, and the reality that the majority of law school graduates will end up with low-paying jobs upon completion of their "legal studies."