free-range politics, organic community

We're going to support only Democrats because...

Has anyone really asked this of Bernie or the Bernie people or Justice Democrats/ Our Revolution/ Brand New Congress/ Coalition to Promote Maybe You Get A Little Something For Your Tax Dollars?

Are any of those organizations planning to support any candidate anywhere (outside of Bernie, but only technically) who isn't a Democrat?

What's the counter-argument? "Yeah, you see, because after the first few hundred betrayals the folks who run the party will let up. It's in their contracts y'know." Make them actually voice that, or something like that.

You've no doubt read the reportage on this one before. The fun thing about Jamie Peck's piece here is in how Tom Perez and the rest of those hacks are so thoroughly denied therein. It should be clear by this point that the Democrats will lose every seat in every legislature in America before letting you and yours have one of them. They think of the Bernie people as the enemy, so in that sense they're paying attention. Are the Bernie people paying attention?

Ask the Bernie people this: do you really need to see the full demonstration to be convinced?

Not enough evidence y'know. More research! Isn't that what the Bush administration said about climate change?

@LaFeminista
As to Obama, you weren't supposed to notice he was doing that. It's like calling attention to the fact that the most socially influential church lady's undies are showing at Morning Prayer.

#1.1 Democrats got most upset when I objected to Obama's expansion of war and war crimes.

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17 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

where the putrescent Pompeo nearly got voted out of office by a decent Dem the DNC made an undeniable decision to avoid both funding and other support.
Interesting too that lots of people in Colorado who voted for the Establishment person and Colorado Care didn't seem to know that the anti-Colorado Care faction was richly funded by groups closely allied with Her.

Far be it for this idealist to be pragmatic, but I don't think anyone but a Democrat or Republican can win. The couple of Independents and a libertarian/socialist here or there are the exceptions that prove the rule.

The Green/Libertarian Parties have no legs. Bernie destroyed the movement he built by dropping out and endorsing Hillary. Besides Our Revolution, I don't even know if any the others you mentioned even gave the guy in Kansas a dime. There is no opposing force in this country worth a damn. Tea Party, omfg, is as close to a revolution and uprising as it gets. I am as frustrated as you with our impotence, and I think it is just too damn bad for us. What these groups do or don't do isn't going to matter squat.

We helped to take the Clintons down. That was huge. What did it change? The closest we got to power was in 07/08 when the lefty bloggers took out Lieberman, got taken to lunch in Harlem, and sold us out.

where the putrescent Pompeo nearly got voted out of office by a decent Dem the DNC made an undeniable decision to avoid both funding and other support.
Interesting too that lots of people in Colorado who voted for the Establishment person and Colorado Care didn't seem to know that the anti-Colorado Care faction was richly funded by groups closely allied with Her.

@dkmich
My personal viewpoint was different than that so FWIW, here's what guided my donations or lack thereof. None of those groups got any money from me even though I theoretically like their stances. All of them are way too cuddly with the Democratic party for me to send dollars to.

I like their professed stances but it was flat-out guilt by association for me. I don't begrudge them their work. My attitude is attacks on the party from both inside and outside are valuable. But I've already decided that I prefer to work the outside route which is, as I see it, to deprive them of votes wherever possible and, while doing so, to do what I can to convince other people... liberal and conservative alike, that the whole game is rigged.

Far be it for this idealist to be pragmatic, but I don't think anyone but a Democrat or Republican can win. The couple of Independents and a libertarian/socialist here or there are the exceptions that prove the rule.

The Green/Libertarian Parties have no legs. Bernie destroyed the movement he built by dropping out and endorsing Hillary. Besides Our Revolution, I don't even know if any the others you mentioned even gave the guy in Kansas a dime. There is no opposing force in this country worth a damn. Tea Party, omfg, is as close to a revolution and uprising as it gets. I am as frustrated as you with our impotence, and I think it is just too damn bad for us. What these groups do or don't do isn't going to matter squat.

We helped to take the Clintons down. That was huge. What did it change? The closest we got to power was in 07/08 when the lefty bloggers took out Lieberman, got taken to lunch in Harlem, and sold us out.

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11 users have voted.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

@SnappleBC
the outside route which is, as I see it... to do what I can to convince other people... liberal and conservative alike, that the whole game is rigged."
Me, too.
Denying The Establishment the vote is also important. But, I'll be taking it to the streets this Spring, Summer, to view the lay of the land, who's in, who's out.
Two questions on a clipboard:
Do you favor the Trump presidency?
If no, would you spend some time with people like you that are interested in getting their government back?

#2.1 My personal viewpoint was different than that so FWIW, here's what guided my donations or lack thereof. None of those groups got any money from me even though I theoretically like their stances. All of them are way too cuddly with the Democratic party for me to send dollars to.

I like their professed stances but it was flat-out guilt by association for me. I don't begrudge them their work. My attitude is attacks on the party from both inside and outside are valuable. But I've already decided that I prefer to work the outside route which is, as I see it, to deprive them of votes wherever possible and, while doing so, to do what I can to convince other people... liberal and conservative alike, that the whole game is rigged.

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5 users have voted.

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the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

The Democrats have no intention of ever changing, as you point out. While I think it would be great if one of these efforts would succeed, I think they are ultimately excersises in futility. At best, these things look hopelessly naive to me but at worst, because of the refusal to look outside the Democrats, they end up looking a little sheepdoggish. I really don't know what the answer is, but limiting us to voting for Democrats, and continuing to elect bad Democrats just because they have a D after their name, doesn't seem the way.

@Dr. John Carpenter
answers is to replace currently seated Dems with Bernicrats, eventually overtaking the party by replacing all corporate Dems with Berniecrats.
The other, of course, is to build a new more progressive party.
I think both can work together, side by side. Whichever "side" working better would then be joined by the other. I have no dog in that fight. I don't care which "side" wins, just that we do.

The Democrats have no intention of ever changing, as you point out. While I think it would be great if one of these efforts would succeed, I think they are ultimately excersises in futility. At best, these things look hopelessly naive to me but at worst, because of the refusal to look outside the Democrats, they end up looking a little sheepdoggish. I really don't know what the answer is, but limiting us to voting for Democrats, and continuing to elect bad Democrats just because they have a D after their name, doesn't seem the way.

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7 users have voted.

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the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink
Perfect! That's exactly why I don't care for political brand loyalty. Unfortunately, that seems to be all the current Democrats have (just like their Republican counterparts.) Here's hoping somehow we can put the fear of the voters back in them.

#3
answers is to replace currently seated Dems with Bernicrats, eventually overtaking the party by replacing all corporate Dems with Berniecrats.
The other, of course, is to build a new more progressive party.
I think both can work together, side by side. Whichever "side" working better would then be joined by the other. I have no dog in that fight. I don't care which "side" wins, just that we do.

@Dr. John Carpenter
do it door-to-door. I wish there were another way, what with all this newfangled "technology," but, despite all the technology most people seem to be clueless as to what's going on. So... if there's another way besides door-to-door, well, I'll try anything. Hell, I'm old. The last thing I want to do is hobble around the neighborhood with a clipboard. But I see no other way. And, guess what? Yes, sadly, you and I have been "volunteered." I know, right?! First thing I thought was, you gotta be kidding me. But, we're it.

#3.1 Perfect! That's exactly why I don't care for political brand loyalty. Unfortunately, that seems to be all the current Democrats have (just like their Republican counterparts.) Here's hoping somehow we can put the fear of the voters back in them.

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4 users have voted.

—

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink
I'm stunned anybody still thinks this is a way to work. Replacing corporate Dems with Berniecrats?

You guys must have inhabited a different time line last year. Sounds like it was a much nicer timeline than this one.

#3
answers is to replace currently seated Dems with Bernicrats, eventually overtaking the party by replacing all corporate Dems with Berniecrats.
The other, of course, is to build a new more progressive party.
I think both can work together, side by side. Whichever "side" working better would then be joined by the other. I have no dog in that fight. I don't care which "side" wins, just that we do.

up

2 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Wink@Wink@Wink
I do get the "work however you want" ethos, and, ultimately, that's the only way to go, because I'm never going to convince the people who want to work within the party that it's a bad idea. If the evidence of last year wasn't enough, nothing ever will be.

However, since you might as well say "I'm going to walk into a Mafia-run casino and win against the house at blackjack until I have more money than they do and I run the place," it's pretty hard to simply shut up and accept the fact that some people will continue to pursue this course. Still, it's what has to be done. I think maybe I've got one more essay in me on this subject before I stop having this particular debate (I figure 29 years is enough for a debate on tactics that keeps circling the same point like a planet around a dead star).

#3
answers is to replace currently seated Dems with Bernicrats, eventually overtaking the party by replacing all corporate Dems with Berniecrats.
The other, of course, is to build a new more progressive party.
I think both can work together, side by side. Whichever "side" working better would then be joined by the other. I have no dog in that fight. I don't care which "side" wins, just that we do.

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3 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

It is nice work if you can get it, pushing boulders uphill for a living, never quite making it to the top. Some people are just wired with unbelievable energy, ultimately producing nothing much but a great career of oratory, narrating every step forward, every two steps back. Keep playing within the oligarch's rule set, why not?

... “The hypocrisy was beyond belief!” says Sanders, still scarcely able to contain himself. “To talk about protecting clean air and water on the same day that you issue an order that will increase pollution of air and water!”
...
“This is what they should do,” he says, pumping out the Bern. “They should take a deep reflection about the history of this country, understand that absolutely these are very difficult and frightening times. But also understand that in moments of crisis, what has happened, time and time again, is that people have stood up and fought back. So despair is absolutely not an option.”

Yes we can! Blah blah blah etc.. Do not look at the mad bombers behind every curtain, because unity, or something like that.

It is nice work if you can get it, pushing boulders uphill for a living, never quite making it to the top. Some people are just wired with unbelievable energy, ultimately producing nothing much but a great career of oratory, narrating every step forward, every two steps back. Keep playing within the oligarch's rule set, why not?

... “The hypocrisy was beyond belief!” says Sanders, still scarcely able to contain himself. “To talk about protecting clean air and water on the same day that you issue an order that will increase pollution of air and water!”
...
“This is what they should do,” he says, pumping out the Bern. “They should take a deep reflection about the history of this country, understand that absolutely these are very difficult and frightening times. But also understand that in moments of crisis, what has happened, time and time again, is that people have stood up and fought back. So despair is absolutely not an option.”

Yes we can! Blah blah blah etc.. Do not look at the mad bombers behind every curtain, because unity, or something like that.

Peace & Love

up

15 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
to know that politics does not follow a straight line. Never has, never will. Bernie ain't any different than any other politician. He works with what he has to work with. Thing is, I really don't think he knows how many avg. joe voters have his back. [sigh] Against all those odds he really Could create magic.

#4.1
to know that politics does not follow a straight line. Never has, never will. Bernie ain't any different than any other politician. He works with what he has to work with. Thing is, I really don't think he knows how many avg. joe voters have his back. [sigh] Against all those odds he really Could create magic.

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2 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

The Russians expressed their total disgust and outrage at this attack and openly began saying that the Americans were “недоговороспособны”. What that word means is literally “not-agreement-capable” or unable to make and then abide by an agreement. While polite, this expression is also extremely strong as it implies not so much a deliberate deception as the lack of the very ability to make a deal and abide by it. For example, the Russians have often said that the Kiev regime is “not-agreement-capable”, and that makes sense considering that the Nazi occupied Ukraine is essentially a failed state. But to say that a nuclear world superpower is “not-agreement-capable” is a terrible and extreme diagnostic. It basically means that the Americans have gone crazy and lost the very ability to make any kind of deal. Again, a government which breaks its promises or tries to deceive but who, at least in theory, remains capable of sticking to an agreement would not be described as “not-agreement-capable”. That expression is only used to describe an entity which does not even have the skillset needed to negotiate and stick to an agreement in its political toolkit. This is an absolutely devastating diagnostic.

This is bad. Really bad. This means that the Russians have basically given up on the notion of having an adult, sober and mentally sane partner to have a dialog with. What this also means is that while remaining very polite and externally poker faced, the Russians have now concluded that they need to simply assume that they need to act either alone or with other partners and basically give up on the United States.

It is nice work if you can get it, pushing boulders uphill for a living, never quite making it to the top. Some people are just wired with unbelievable energy, ultimately producing nothing much but a great career of oratory, narrating every step forward, every two steps back. Keep playing within the oligarch's rule set, why not?

... “The hypocrisy was beyond belief!” says Sanders, still scarcely able to contain himself. “To talk about protecting clean air and water on the same day that you issue an order that will increase pollution of air and water!”
...
“This is what they should do,” he says, pumping out the Bern. “They should take a deep reflection about the history of this country, understand that absolutely these are very difficult and frightening times. But also understand that in moments of crisis, what has happened, time and time again, is that people have stood up and fought back. So despair is absolutely not an option.”

Yes we can! Blah blah blah etc.. Do not look at the mad bombers behind every curtain, because unity, or something like that.

The Russians expressed their total disgust and outrage at this attack and openly began saying that the Americans were “недоговороспособны”. What that word means is literally “not-agreement-capable” or unable to make and then abide by an agreement. While polite, this expression is also extremely strong as it implies not so much a deliberate deception as the lack of the very ability to make a deal and abide by it. For example, the Russians have often said that the Kiev regime is “not-agreement-capable”, and that makes sense considering that the Nazi occupied Ukraine is essentially a failed state. But to say that a nuclear world superpower is “not-agreement-capable” is a terrible and extreme diagnostic. It basically means that the Americans have gone crazy and lost the very ability to make any kind of deal. Again, a government which breaks its promises or tries to deceive but who, at least in theory, remains capable of sticking to an agreement would not be described as “not-agreement-capable”. That expression is only used to describe an entity which does not even have the skillset needed to negotiate and stick to an agreement in its political toolkit. This is an absolutely devastating diagnostic.

This is bad. Really bad. This means that the Russians have basically given up on the notion of having an adult, sober and mentally sane partner to have a dialog with. What this also means is that while remaining very polite and externally poker faced, the Russians have now concluded that they need to simply assume that they need to act either alone or with other partners and basically give up on the United States.

The Russians expressed their total disgust and outrage at this attack and openly began saying that the Americans were “недоговороспособны”. What that word means is literally “not-agreement-capable” or unable to make and then abide by an agreement. While polite, this expression is also extremely strong as it implies not so much a deliberate deception as the lack of the very ability to make a deal and abide by it. For example, the Russians have often said that the Kiev regime is “not-agreement-capable”, and that makes sense considering that the Nazi occupied Ukraine is essentially a failed state. But to say that a nuclear world superpower is “not-agreement-capable” is a terrible and extreme diagnostic. It basically means that the Americans have gone crazy and lost the very ability to make any kind of deal. Again, a government which breaks its promises or tries to deceive but who, at least in theory, remains capable of sticking to an agreement would not be described as “not-agreement-capable”. That expression is only used to describe an entity which does not even have the skillset needed to negotiate and stick to an agreement in its political toolkit. This is an absolutely devastating diagnostic.

This is bad. Really bad. This means that the Russians have basically given up on the notion of having an adult, sober and mentally sane partner to have a dialog with. What this also means is that while remaining very polite and externally poker faced, the Russians have now concluded that they need to simply assume that they need to act either alone or with other partners and basically give up on the United States.

@eyo
He may not have the energy he had last year, cranking out two, sometimes three stump speeches every day. But, he knows that to do nothing is not an option. The only option is to do something. The Left continues to argue how to do something, instead of doing it, but something soon needs to happen, and "nothing" ain't it.

It is nice work if you can get it, pushing boulders uphill for a living, never quite making it to the top. Some people are just wired with unbelievable energy, ultimately producing nothing much but a great career of oratory, narrating every step forward, every two steps back. Keep playing within the oligarch's rule set, why not?

... “The hypocrisy was beyond belief!” says Sanders, still scarcely able to contain himself. “To talk about protecting clean air and water on the same day that you issue an order that will increase pollution of air and water!”
...
“This is what they should do,” he says, pumping out the Bern. “They should take a deep reflection about the history of this country, understand that absolutely these are very difficult and frightening times. But also understand that in moments of crisis, what has happened, time and time again, is that people have stood up and fought back. So despair is absolutely not an option.”

Yes we can! Blah blah blah etc.. Do not look at the mad bombers behind every curtain, because unity, or something like that.

Peace & Love

up

6 users have voted.

—

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink
you, know the type, wherein the light source is contained inside a flimsy but light-transmitting covering. Those attracted by his ideas, like moths to a flame, will not need to get themselves immolated by inside closer to the fire. Those people can use the light generated as a stimulus to gather, coalesce into something strong and than affect outcome.

#4
He may not have the energy he had last year, cranking out two, sometimes three stump speeches every day. But, he knows that to do nothing is not an option. The only option is to do something. The Left continues to argue how to do something, instead of doing it, but something soon needs to happen, and "nothing" ain't it.

#4.3 you, know the type, wherein the light source is contained inside a flimsy but light-transmitting covering. Those attracted by his ideas, like moths to a flame, will not need to get themselves immolated by inside closer to the fire. Those people can use the light generated as a stimulus to gather, coalesce into something strong and than affect outcome.

up

2 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@WinkOhm ... resistance is futile. lol oops wrong conversation. I friendly disagree that "Bernie is right" but go on. I understand what you mean, I think. Do you know what it is like to feel hungry all day for a few days every month? Do you sleep well and warm every day? I remember that nice bubble from when I was younger and healthier, it is pretty pretty good. Electoral politics seemed to matter, because "not an option". Keep going.

What's your BMI? Never mind. I gave up looking when I hit 120 pounds looking like a friggin' speed freak in my baggy clothes. Because housing is too expensive, healthcare is too expensive, food is too expensive, transportation is too expensive, clothing budget disappeared ten years ago. Did you know people are dying in the streets in CA and NY without shelter? Our "warming stations" closed because spring arrived on the calendar, tough shit nights are still near freezing. Wine-grape crop will survive great now growers can waste water again to keep the buds "warm". Democrat priorities, plutocrats do fine funded by the oligarchs in charge. Bernie's "compassion" energy is somewhere else now, it is no coincidence California is AutomatedTellerMachine for the D party. Go on and celebrate the NY 47% free college crumbs too, don't expect me to cheer that on it is far from relieving the despair, more like ignoring it while pushing boulders uphill.

In my view, all energy and especially all dollars should flow directly to people in need, the ones paying for current D and R policies with their health, their lives. No more BIG "programs" no more BIG "501c3s", they are part of the problem with lobbyists and political "consultants". And I am not talking about SNAP for farmers market subsidies either, I mean un-subsidized, un-cronied, direct action fresh food for people, all people. Food first, artisans second. Build millions of homes, real structures not corrupt coupons or impossible waiting lists, organize co-operative worker groups to rebuild infra, not the Big boss unions. Self-insure, or whatever is possible away from the "financial services" industry investment bubbles. FTS. Stop splitting money between all those political "coalitions", and actually do something real for a change. Really take it to the streets. Rebuild a meaningful commons $27 at at time, thereby have somewhere concrete to work from, to oppose oligarchy. Thanks.

Peace & Love

#4
He may not have the energy he had last year, cranking out two, sometimes three stump speeches every day. But, he knows that to do nothing is not an option. The only option is to do something. The Left continues to argue how to do something, instead of doing it, but something soon needs to happen, and "nothing" ain't it.

At the risk of sounding incredibly privileged, though, I think we need to invest some of the money in a solid (uncorrupted) communications network too. There's a reason they took over the media. They want to control how we think and talk, keep us isolated or brainwashed.

#4.3Ohm ... resistance is futile. lol oops wrong conversation. I friendly disagree that "Bernie is right" but go on. I understand what you mean, I think. Do you know what it is like to feel hungry all day for a few days every month? Do you sleep well and warm every day? I remember that nice bubble from when I was younger and healthier, it is pretty pretty good. Electoral politics seemed to matter, because "not an option". Keep going.

What's your BMI? Never mind. I gave up looking when I hit 120 pounds looking like a friggin' speed freak in my baggy clothes. Because housing is too expensive, healthcare is too expensive, food is too expensive, transportation is too expensive, clothing budget disappeared ten years ago. Did you know people are dying in the streets in CA and NY without shelter? Our "warming stations" closed because spring arrived on the calendar, tough shit nights are still near freezing. Wine-grape crop will survive great now growers can waste water again to keep the buds "warm". Democrat priorities, plutocrats do fine funded by the oligarchs in charge. Bernie's "compassion" energy is somewhere else now, it is no coincidence California is AutomatedTellerMachine for the D party. Go on and celebrate the NY 47% free college crumbs too, don't expect me to cheer that on it is far from relieving the despair, more like ignoring it while pushing boulders uphill.

In my view, all energy and especially all dollars should flow directly to people in need, the ones paying for current D and R policies with their health, their lives. No more BIG "programs" no more BIG "501c3s", they are part of the problem with lobbyists and political "consultants". And I am not talking about SNAP for farmers market subsidies either, I mean un-subsidized, un-cronied, direct action fresh food for people, all people. Food first, artisans second. Build millions of homes, real structures not corrupt coupons or impossible waiting lists, organize co-operative worker groups to rebuild infra, not the Big boss unions. Self-insure, or whatever is possible away from the "financial services" industry investment bubbles. FTS. Stop splitting money between all those political "coalitions", and actually do something real for a change. Really take it to the streets. Rebuild a meaningful commons $27 at at time, thereby have somewhere concrete to work from, to oppose oligarchy. Thanks.

Peace & Love

up

4 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

That was a call to the people. Bernie has always said that change must come in a groundswell of the public themselves forming and making their government finally of, by and for the people - and that it was not about 'the right leader' as one person could not make the changes alone. The whole mess and all branches are almost solid with corruption and few in politics even dare to mention this, never mind work out a way to keep the concept of government as public servants working for the people uppermost in the minds of those restricted to the corporate media propaganda mill.

It is nice work if you can get it, pushing boulders uphill for a living, never quite making it to the top. Some people are just wired with unbelievable energy, ultimately producing nothing much but a great career of oratory, narrating every step forward, every two steps back. Keep playing within the oligarch's rule set, why not?

... “The hypocrisy was beyond belief!” says Sanders, still scarcely able to contain himself. “To talk about protecting clean air and water on the same day that you issue an order that will increase pollution of air and water!”
...
“This is what they should do,” he says, pumping out the Bern. “They should take a deep reflection about the history of this country, understand that absolutely these are very difficult and frightening times. But also understand that in moments of crisis, what has happened, time and time again, is that people have stood up and fought back. So despair is absolutely not an option.”

Yes we can! Blah blah blah etc.. Do not look at the mad bombers behind every curtain, because unity, or something like that.

Peace & Love

up

2 users have voted.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
if any Green candidates (like the folks who disappeared from my neighborhood ages ago) appeal to Brand New Congress for support...

who agrees with their platform. I'll bet you 50 bucks most of them will be Democrats, though.

up

6 users have voted.

—

"The Democratic Party is better than the Republican Party in the way that manslaughter is slightly better than murder: It might seem like a lesser crime, but the victim can’t really tell the difference." -- Michael Harriot

@Cassiodorus
in my NY-21 that is to the Left of me (not hard to do at -2.0 / -2.0) whom I've told I would vote for in a heartbeat if he would run as a Dem. "Nope, screw your Dems, I'm here to build the Green party!" And he has! to 10% of the vote! Which is about all he'll ever get, but it's 10% he's taking from the Dem party. Truly pisses me off.

#5 if any Green candidates (like the folks who disappeared from my neighborhood ages ago) appeal to Brand New Congress for support...

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2 users have voted.

—

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink
And every time I read one of your posts I feel vindicated in my choice to be a Green.

#5.1
in my NY-21 that is to the Left of me (not hard to do at -2.0 / -2.0) whom I've told I would vote for in a heartbeat if he would run as a Dem. "Nope, screw your Dems, I'm here to build the Green party!" And he has! to 10% of the vote! Which is about all he'll ever get, but it's 10% he's taking from the Dem party. Truly pisses me off.

up

6 users have voted.

—

"The Democratic Party is better than the Republican Party in the way that manslaughter is slightly better than murder: It might seem like a lesser crime, but the victim can’t really tell the difference." -- Michael Harriot

@Cassiodorus
And in 25 years your party has accomplished...
Exactly.
I would vote for this guy, and he's Way to the Left of me, but all that does is help a Repub get elected. I left my local yokel Dem party here becuz TPTB are more interested in cocktail parties and "playing nice" with Repubs than they are in actually getting Dems elected. So that leaves me, as the so-called "lone librul" in these parts, flailing in the wind. Jill's vote total told us pretty much where the Green party stands, and I don't expect that to ever change. I mean, how many times you gonna run just to pick up 2% ? Some unknown picked up twice that.
Love your posts, but the Greens are dead.

#5.1.1 And every time I read one of your posts I feel vindicated in my choice to be a Green.

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the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink@Wink
has accomplished a damned lot as regards fighting the ballot status restrictions imposed by the Democratic Party, at the same time fighting "demogreens" within the party who want the Green Party to join the Democratic Party, while the Democratic Party has regressed to the point where it has become Her Party.

I would vote for this guy, and he's Way to the Left of me, but all that does is help a Repub get elected.

It's called "party building." We keep running campaigns, fighting media and money machines (and a fair portion of our own party) biased in favor of the Democratic Party, until we win one. The Democratic Party does party building, but it builds neoliberal parties. That was the point of this essay (see above). If y'all don't want to get a Repub elected, try organizing a meeting between the factions opposing the Repub. And good luck -- my guess is that the Democrats, being the faux opposition, are simply uninterested in Green votes. Why should they want principled voters when they can get plenty of people who can rationalize voting for them?

Jill's vote total told us pretty much where the Green party stands, and I don't expect that to ever change.

This shows how the "why don't the Greens run downticket races?" ploy is such an argument of convenience. When it actually comes time to look at local Green candidates, y'all suddenly switch tactics, and point to Jill. Here's a nice fact about Jill: Jill hired a noted Demogreen (David Cobb) to run her campaign. The Greens have been running fake candidates for President since the 2004 national convention screwed Ralph Nader out of the ballot status the rank-and-file was all too ready to grant him.

If the Green Party is not to your liking (and I've made this clear in post after post), feel free to start another party. I'll probably join it. Until then, we'll be going over how Bernie Sanders is in fact a company man and that sort of thing.

#5.1.1.1
And in 25 years your party has accomplished...
Exactly.
I would vote for this guy, and he's Way to the Left of me, but all that does is help a Repub get elected. I left my local yokel Dem party here becuz TPTB are more interested in cocktail parties and "playing nice" with Repubs than they are in actually getting Dems elected. So that leaves me, as the so-called "lone librul" in these parts, flailing in the wind. Jill's vote total told us pretty much where the Green party stands, and I don't expect that to ever change. I mean, how many times you gonna run just to pick up 2% ? Some unknown picked up twice that.
Love your posts, but the Greens are dead.

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"The Democratic Party is better than the Republican Party in the way that manslaughter is slightly better than murder: It might seem like a lesser crime, but the victim can’t really tell the difference." -- Michael Harriot

@Wink
I'd rather accomplish nothing than accomplish what the Democrats have accomplished in the last twenty-five years. Financial deregulation. NAFTA. No Child Left Behind. The Clinton Crime Bill. Globalized fracking. The Iraq War. The Syrian War. The war in Afghanistan. The Patriot Act. The destruction of Libya. Haiti. Honduras. Patriot Act II.

Which of these could have been accomplished without bipartisan support? I guess we'll never know.

Oh yeah. I forgot. Changing the official way we reckon unemployment and poverty, so it looks like things are better than they are. Cutting the social safety net. Calling it a victory when we cut 13 billion dollars from SNAP during the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression. Protecting the destroyers who stole people's homes.

#5.1.1.1
And in 25 years your party has accomplished...
Exactly.
I would vote for this guy, and he's Way to the Left of me, but all that does is help a Repub get elected. I left my local yokel Dem party here becuz TPTB are more interested in cocktail parties and "playing nice" with Repubs than they are in actually getting Dems elected. So that leaves me, as the so-called "lone librul" in these parts, flailing in the wind. Jill's vote total told us pretty much where the Green party stands, and I don't expect that to ever change. I mean, how many times you gonna run just to pick up 2% ? Some unknown picked up twice that.
Love your posts, but the Greens are dead.

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—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
for all of his blustering about how the Dems need to change, Bernie still won't admit that the primary was stolen not just from him, but from us*. Until we can have a realistic and adult convesation about what happened there, anything else is just empty words.

* One of my biggest issues with Sanders in his current incarnation is his aloofness towards the rigged primary. He may be ok with it, but the whole crux of his campaign was that it wasn't about just him. It was about all of us. That primary was a slap in the face to every one of his supporters. For him to just blow it off like the rest of the Dems want to is kind of insulting, IMHO.

that they are undermining "Bernie-Sanders-style candidates" when they just finished undermining Bernie Sanders?

#7 for all of his blustering about how the Dems need to change, Bernie still won't admit that the primary was stolen not just from him, but from us*. Until we can have a realistic and adult convesation about what happened there, anything else is just empty words.

* One of my biggest issues with Sanders in his current incarnation is his aloofness towards the rigged primary. He may be ok with it, but the whole crux of his campaign was that it wasn't about just him. It was about all of us. That primary was a slap in the face to every one of his supporters. For him to just blow it off like the rest of the Dems want to is kind of insulting, IMHO.

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—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

I hadn't given this a lot of thought until now, because I'm not and never was "in love" with Bernie himself, such that I can feel betrayed by him over his turning to the dark side democrats. I knew he was a career politician who had been working with the Democratic Party for a very long time. He said he would support the party's nominee in the end, and I believed him and expected it. I also hadn't really known much about him until he ran for president, so I read a lot about his past and career once I decided to send him money. I almost never do that for politicians, and I'm very careful and skeptical. I knew Bernie was no angel. So I've been sort of distanced from the anger at him personally. My ire has been directed at the Democratic Party, who ruthlessly squashed the movement, the huge wave, that Bernie conjured up.

I'm not mad that they screwed him. Bernie can and is taking care of himself.

I'm mad that the "party" -- aka the Clintons and their minions, not just that they cheated and bought the nomination, but they destroyed the possibilities that Bernie's campaign had demonstrated exist in this country. They will squeeze it to death. That's why I can't bring myself to vote for democrats now, or republicans. Maybe it's not fair to "good democrats" or "Bernie democrats" -- those that want to take over and fix the party. But I feel like they are joining the Borg. They will be assimilated. Or they will lose. The party won't help them, it will actively undermine them if necessary. The only way to win is not to play.

I doubt there is anything that can be said by the party to change my feelings. I would need to see changes. New leadership and no more Clinton ownership, for starters. A sincere recognition and apology for what they did in the primary. Not to Bernie, but to his voters and supporters, his movement. Adopt the platform he ran on, that we supported. No more superdelegates choosing the party's candidates. Single payer/universal healthcare as a key policy goal, and a real push for it.

Let's start with those, and then I'll think about supporting some of these "new and better democrats" and voting again. (I feel confident my bluff will not be called.)

Bernie can't convince people like me to forgive and forget the party for their corrupt behavior. That's what they don't seem to understand, with this idea that Bernie is supposed to be sheepdogging us back into the fold. It won't work. If those fundraising numbers for Our Revolution are correct, it shows just how much we won't be herded back to the dem party at this point. I saw kos was recently scratching his head in confusion over why 'Berniecrats" and the OR organization raised so little cash for this skirmish. Why don't they come flocking back to the Borg? ... gee, I just can't figure it out. They don't get it, apparently. That party isn't going to be reformed. I can't support any effort that revitalizes them. We need a new way.

#7 for all of his blustering about how the Dems need to change, Bernie still won't admit that the primary was stolen not just from him, but from us*. Until we can have a realistic and adult convesation about what happened there, anything else is just empty words.

* One of my biggest issues with Sanders in his current incarnation is his aloofness towards the rigged primary. He may be ok with it, but the whole crux of his campaign was that it wasn't about just him. It was about all of us. That primary was a slap in the face to every one of his supporters. For him to just blow it off like the rest of the Dems want to is kind of insulting, IMHO.

I hadn't given this a lot of thought until now, because I'm not and never was "in love" with Bernie himself, such that I can feel betrayed by him over his turning to the dark side democrats. I knew he was a career politician who had been working with the Democratic Party for a very long time. He said he would support the party's nominee in the end, and I believed him and expected it. I also hadn't really known much about him until he ran for president, so I read a lot about his past and career once I decided to send him money. I almost never do that for politicians, and I'm very careful and skeptical. I knew Bernie was no angel. So I've been sort of distanced from the anger at him personally. My ire has been directed at the Democratic Party, who ruthlessly squashed the movement, the huge wave, that Bernie conjured up.

I'm not mad that they screwed him. Bernie can and is taking care of himself.

I'm mad that the "party" -- aka the Clintons and their minions, not just that they cheated and bought the nomination, but they destroyed the possibilities that Bernie's campaign had demonstrated exist in this country. They will squeeze it to death. That's why I can't bring myself to vote for democrats now, or republicans. Maybe it's not fair to "good democrats" or "Bernie democrats" -- those that want to take over and fix the party. But I feel like they are joining the Borg. They will be assimilated. Or they will lose. The party won't help them, it will actively undermine them if necessary. The only way to win is not to play.

I doubt there is anything that can be said by the party to change my feelings. I would need to see changes. New leadership and no more Clinton ownership, for starters. A sincere recognition and apology for what they did in the primary. Not to Bernie, but to his voters and supporters, his movement. Adopt the platform he ran on, that we supported. No more superdelegates choosing the party's candidates. Single payer/universal healthcare as a key policy goal, and a real push for it.

Let's start with those, and then I'll think about supporting some of these "new and better democrats" and voting again. (I feel confident my bluff will not be called.)

Bernie can't convince people like me to forgive and forget the party for their corrupt behavior. That's what they don't seem to understand, with this idea that Bernie is supposed to be sheepdogging us back into the fold. It won't work. If those fundraising numbers for Our Revolution are correct, it shows just how much we won't be herded back to the dem party at this point. I saw kos was recently scratching his head in confusion over why 'Berniecrats" and the OR organization raised so little cash for this skirmish. Why don't they come flocking back to the Borg? ... gee, I just can't figure it out. They don't get it, apparently. That party isn't going to be reformed. I can't support any effort that revitalizes them. We need a new way.

I hadn't given this a lot of thought until now, because I'm not and never was "in love" with Bernie himself, such that I can feel betrayed by him over his turning to the dark side democrats. I knew he was a career politician who had been working with the Democratic Party for a very long time. He said he would support the party's nominee in the end, and I believed him and expected it. I also hadn't really known much about him until he ran for president, so I read a lot about his past and career once I decided to send him money. I almost never do that for politicians, and I'm very careful and skeptical. I knew Bernie was no angel. So I've been sort of distanced from the anger at him personally. My ire has been directed at the Democratic Party, who ruthlessly squashed the movement, the huge wave, that Bernie conjured up.

I'm not mad that they screwed him. Bernie can and is taking care of himself.

I'm mad that the "party" -- aka the Clintons and their minions, not just that they cheated and bought the nomination, but they destroyed the possibilities that Bernie's campaign had demonstrated exist in this country. They will squeeze it to death. That's why I can't bring myself to vote for democrats now, or republicans. Maybe it's not fair to "good democrats" or "Bernie democrats" -- those that want to take over and fix the party. But I feel like they are joining the Borg. They will be assimilated. Or they will lose. The party won't help them, it will actively undermine them if necessary. The only way to win is not to play.

I doubt there is anything that can be said by the party to change my feelings. I would need to see changes. New leadership and no more Clinton ownership, for starters. A sincere recognition and apology for what they did in the primary. Not to Bernie, but to his voters and supporters, his movement. Adopt the platform he ran on, that we supported. No more superdelegates choosing the party's candidates. Single payer/universal healthcare as a key policy goal, and a real push for it.

Let's start with those, and then I'll think about supporting some of these "new and better democrats" and voting again. (I feel confident my bluff will not be called.)

Bernie can't convince people like me to forgive and forget the party for their corrupt behavior. That's what they don't seem to understand, with this idea that Bernie is supposed to be sheepdogging us back into the fold. It won't work. If those fundraising numbers for Our Revolution are correct, it shows just how much we won't be herded back to the dem party at this point. I saw kos was recently scratching his head in confusion over why 'Berniecrats" and the OR organization raised so little cash for this skirmish. Why don't they come flocking back to the Borg? ... gee, I just can't figure it out. They don't get it, apparently. That party isn't going to be reformed. I can't support any effort that revitalizes them. We need a new way.

up

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—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Dr. John Carpenter
for those who supported him, especially those who gave him money when they could hardly afford to do so. It wasn't Bernie who had it stolen from him but US, as he kept on saying. And that is why I can't support his new "movement" and certainly will not give it money.

#7 for all of his blustering about how the Dems need to change, Bernie still won't admit that the primary was stolen not just from him, but from us*. Until we can have a realistic and adult convesation about what happened there, anything else is just empty words.

* One of my biggest issues with Sanders in his current incarnation is his aloofness towards the rigged primary. He may be ok with it, but the whole crux of his campaign was that it wasn't about just him. It was about all of us. That primary was a slap in the face to every one of his supporters. For him to just blow it off like the rest of the Dems want to is kind of insulting, IMHO.

@Dr. John Carpenter
Rather, I thought of the rigged primary as just another data point supporting the notion that the Democratic party was far, far gone. The supporting wikileaks information was some minor confirmation of that. Their response to those wikileaks was the nail in the coffin.

#7 for all of his blustering about how the Dems need to change, Bernie still won't admit that the primary was stolen not just from him, but from us*. Until we can have a realistic and adult convesation about what happened there, anything else is just empty words.

* One of my biggest issues with Sanders in his current incarnation is his aloofness towards the rigged primary. He may be ok with it, but the whole crux of his campaign was that it wasn't about just him. It was about all of us. That primary was a slap in the face to every one of his supporters. For him to just blow it off like the rest of the Dems want to is kind of insulting, IMHO.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

@Dr. John Carpenter
exactly does one go about that without committing political suicide?
"I was totally hosed by the DNC and the Dem party during the primary. They rigged the whole thing against me!"
One, he has zero proof of that, other than what's been intimated by DWS and others. Two, where does one go after stating that? The DNC and Dem party will just gang up on him again, denying everything, telling him to "prove it." So... where's the win?
It's easy to say, "Bernie should... " Not as easy to do.

#7 for all of his blustering about how the Dems need to change, Bernie still won't admit that the primary was stolen not just from him, but from us*. Until we can have a realistic and adult convesation about what happened there, anything else is just empty words.

* One of my biggest issues with Sanders in his current incarnation is his aloofness towards the rigged primary. He may be ok with it, but the whole crux of his campaign was that it wasn't about just him. It was about all of us. That primary was a slap in the face to every one of his supporters. For him to just blow it off like the rest of the Dems want to is kind of insulting, IMHO.

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the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink
that's proof enough the primary was rigged even before a challenger appeared to Her Nastiness.

#7.1
exactly does one go about that without committing political suicide?
"I was totally hosed by the DNC and the Dem party during the primary. They rigged the whole thing against me!"
One, he has zero proof of that, other than what's been intimated by DWS and others. Two, where does one go after stating that? The DNC and Dem party will just gang up on him again, denying everything, telling him to "prove it." So... where's the win?
It's easy to say, "Bernie should... " Not as easy to do.

@Alligator Ed
the "leaks" becuz it sounded so much like he said, she said. Is there anything in those "leaks" that says, "we're going to fuck any would-be candidate that dares take on Her Highness?" If there is I've never seen it surface, the MSM never covered it. Not that I expected them to, but all of this talk of "leaks" amounted to speculation. But, then, I never followed it so maybe I missed something. I just followed Bernie on this, and he never pushed it, so I suspected it was so much about nothing. As usual when it comes to these things. Lots of talk, no evidence. I suspected Bernie took his campaign all the way to Philly, all the way to the Convention in hopes more of this "leak" would be exposed and Her Highness and the DNC forced then to crown Bernie.

#7.1.5 that's proof enough the primary was rigged even before a challenger appeared to Her Nastiness.

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the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink
c'mon did you really just admit you never read the evidence? And you "just listened to Bernie" about it? Thanks, that does 'splain the constant contrary. "But did you get info from Chelsea about the wall lamps?" was one eye-opening conversation. Execs at the highest level of government, can't even compose a proper email thread, and omg the garbage that Microsoft Outlook spews and obfuscates at the same time. What a piece of garbage software, probably mandated because monopoly. No wonder there are leaks all over the world, in addition to Seth's drop. Thanks, if it was really him, he is changing the world for better.

The comment you just dropped about the Green Party being dead sounds bitter, sorry you feel burned or unsupported in NY. {hug} Whatever the distress, I am pretty pretty sure NY Ds are not going to do much except what the evil status quo allows, perpetually not enough. Just like CA, tons of money goes where now? Oh yeah, and The Clinton Global Foundation is where now?

Bernie is shilling for corporate Democrats, on tour to GOTV and prop up another dead party walking, under cover of the word revolution. That's a shame, I think. He is working like there is a democracy, not an oligarchy, and that is dishonest. Get the money out, then voters can respond. He must know it. Regular people can't compete with lobbyists and consultants, they're eaten alive once assimilated in to the party structure, consumed by pervasive greed. Only plastic people get promoted. That's my observation, nothing has changed. Keep pushing that boulder if it makes you happy, but don't expect positive change.

Peace & Love
Edited to add: this video speaks for itself, carnival bark much? "We'll be there fighting" riiight (also he may sell you the Brooklyn Bridge but go on), like the last eight years? uh-huh. Let them go Bernie, please don't associate with bullshit like this:

#7.1.5.1
the "leaks" becuz it sounded so much like he said, she said. Is there anything in those "leaks" that says, "we're going to fuck any would-be candidate that dares take on Her Highness?" If there is I've never seen it surface, the MSM never covered it. Not that I expected them to, but all of this talk of "leaks" amounted to speculation. But, then, I never followed it so maybe I missed something. I just followed Bernie on this, and he never pushed it, so I suspected it was so much about nothing. As usual when it comes to these things. Lots of talk, no evidence. I suspected Bernie took his campaign all the way to Philly, all the way to the Convention in hopes more of this "leak" would be exposed and Her Highness and the DNC forced then to crown Bernie.

@eyo
Dishonest Debbie and dastardly Donna were outed in their full, unvarnished characters: lying, conniving witches. Makes one yearn for a new Salem Witch Trial.

#7.1.5.1.1 c'mon did you really just admit you never read the evidence? And you "just listened to Bernie" about it? Thanks, that does 'splain the constant contrary. "But did you get info from Chelsea about the wall lamps?" was one eye-opening conversation. Execs at the highest level of government, can't even compose a proper email thread, and omg the garbage that Microsoft Outlook spews and obfuscates at the same time. What a piece of garbage software, probably mandated because monopoly. No wonder there are leaks all over the world, in addition to Seth's drop. Thanks, if it was really him, he is changing the world for better.

The comment you just dropped about the Green Party being dead sounds bitter, sorry you feel burned or unsupported in NY. {hug} Whatever the distress, I am pretty pretty sure NY Ds are not going to do much except what the evil status quo allows, perpetually not enough. Just like CA, tons of money goes where now? Oh yeah, and The Clinton Global Foundation is where now?

Bernie is shilling for corporate Democrats, on tour to GOTV and prop up another dead party walking, under cover of the word revolution. That's a shame, I think. He is working like there is a democracy, not an oligarchy, and that is dishonest. Get the money out, then voters can respond. He must know it. Regular people can't compete with lobbyists and consultants, they're eaten alive once assimilated in to the party structure, consumed by pervasive greed. Only plastic people get promoted. That's my observation, nothing has changed. Keep pushing that boulder if it makes you happy, but don't expect positive change.

Peace & Love
Edited to add: this video speaks for itself, carnival bark much? "We'll be there fighting" riiight (also he may sell you the Brooklyn Bridge but go on), like the last eight years? uh-huh. Let them go Bernie, please don't associate with bullshit like this:

@Alligator Ed
that sounds kinda misogynist, and I happen to love women and Wicca so ixnay on the urningbay. But those two really bug me, their open dishonesty it is like a disease. I say purge, but even that is too harsh. Can't we get them to retire to private life? No, because they make their bread grafting off innocent voters, soaking them for every penny possible. It is bad politics and why I think Ds are dead party walking. D-diddly-done! /nedflanders

Duopoly inertia is going to drag longer than I will live, probably. Unless someone with guts, willing to sacrifice, stands up and leads the way forward. That's what I think.

Peace & Love

#7.1.5.1.1.1 Dishonest Debbie and dastardly Donna were outed in their full, unvarnished characters: lying, conniving witches. Makes one yearn for a new Salem Witch Trial.

@eyo
I retract my misogynistic statement (but not the thought). Let us chastened beings hope that the Devil finds more tolerance for the three Harpies (oops, misogyny again! Well, what can ya do?)

#7.1.5.1.1.1.1 that sounds kinda misogynist, and I happen to love women and Wicca so ixnay on the urningbay. But those two really bug me, their open dishonesty it is like a disease. I say purge, but even that is too harsh. Can't we get them to retire to private life? No, because they make their bread grafting off innocent voters, soaking them for every penny possible. It is bad politics and why I think Ds are dead party walking. D-diddly-done! /nedflanders

Duopoly inertia is going to drag longer than I will live, probably. Unless someone with guts, willing to sacrifice, stands up and leads the way forward. That's what I think.

@eyo@eyo
toast. Need any evidence see Jill's 2016 election effort. 2%. Hell, an unknown running as an "independent" got 4%. The Greens are dead. And, when I hear talk here of "building a new party," I just think of the 25 year effort of the Greens to garner 2%. No thanks. As for the Dems here in NY, you're right. But, that can be said for the other 49. Show me a strong Dem party anywhere and they would be the first. I left my local yokel Dem party four years ago when it (finally) became painfully obvious that they cared not about electing Dem candidates. Sound familiar? Sound like our DNC? It wasn't until after the 2014 elections that I gave up on Obama. As for Bernie, he did not march to Philly to crown Her Highness, nor endorse her. He obliged his campaign promise to -ahem- "support the winner," but once out on HRC's campaign trail simply rattled off his stump speech. "Hillary supports a $15 minimum wage... " [cough] [wink] Her bristled every time Bernie opened his mouth. So... you have no faith in Bernie fine. Who you gonna put your faith in? The "Movement?" Bueller? Anyone? The Ubers and Filthys don't fear us, the Repubs don't fear us, and The Donald don't fear us. Know who they fear?
Bernie.

#7.1.5.1.1 c'mon did you really just admit you never read the evidence? And you "just listened to Bernie" about it? Thanks, that does 'splain the constant contrary. "But did you get info from Chelsea about the wall lamps?" was one eye-opening conversation. Execs at the highest level of government, can't even compose a proper email thread, and omg the garbage that Microsoft Outlook spews and obfuscates at the same time. What a piece of garbage software, probably mandated because monopoly. No wonder there are leaks all over the world, in addition to Seth's drop. Thanks, if it was really him, he is changing the world for better.

The comment you just dropped about the Green Party being dead sounds bitter, sorry you feel burned or unsupported in NY. {hug} Whatever the distress, I am pretty pretty sure NY Ds are not going to do much except what the evil status quo allows, perpetually not enough. Just like CA, tons of money goes where now? Oh yeah, and The Clinton Global Foundation is where now?

Bernie is shilling for corporate Democrats, on tour to GOTV and prop up another dead party walking, under cover of the word revolution. That's a shame, I think. He is working like there is a democracy, not an oligarchy, and that is dishonest. Get the money out, then voters can respond. He must know it. Regular people can't compete with lobbyists and consultants, they're eaten alive once assimilated in to the party structure, consumed by pervasive greed. Only plastic people get promoted. That's my observation, nothing has changed. Keep pushing that boulder if it makes you happy, but don't expect positive change.

Peace & Love
Edited to add: this video speaks for itself, carnival bark much? "We'll be there fighting" riiight (also he may sell you the Brooklyn Bridge but go on), like the last eight years? uh-huh. Let them go Bernie, please don't associate with bullshit like this:

Need any evidence see Jill's 2016 election effort. 2%. Hell, an unknown running as an "independent" got 4%. The Greens are dead. And, when I hear talk here of "building a new party," I just think of the 25 year effort of the Greens to garner 2%.

Of course, such statements assume a homogeneous history, it's all one straight shot to 2%, never mind Ralph Nader or the betrayal in Milwaukee or for that matter any of the actual events occurring between 1990 and the present-day which might have moved things one way or another.

And I suppose if you don't like the Democrats you can always vote Whig. They're still the other party, of course, because the Two-Party System is eternal as everyone knows.

Moreover, the current course of policy, where the two parties take turns trying to get rid of Social Security and stuff like that, will never cause anyone to rise up in revolt. It's the current parties forever, baby. One of them appoints the oil industry to deal with climate change and the other promotes climate change denial, but nothing could ever go wrong. Right?

About ten months ago I put out this diary, followed by this diary. It's not like we don't understand the scope or requirements of the new-party project.

#7.1.5.1.1.1#7.1.5.1.1.1
toast. Need any evidence see Jill's 2016 election effort. 2%. Hell, an unknown running as an "independent" got 4%. The Greens are dead. And, when I hear talk here of "building a new party," I just think of the 25 year effort of the Greens to garner 2%. No thanks. As for the Dems here in NY, you're right. But, that can be said for the other 49. Show me a strong Dem party anywhere and they would be the first. I left my local yokel Dem party four years ago when it (finally) became painfully obvious that they cared not about electing Dem candidates. Sound familiar? Sound like our DNC? It wasn't until after the 2014 elections that I gave up on Obama. As for Bernie, he did not march to Philly to crown Her Highness, nor endorse her. He obliged his campaign promise to -ahem- "support the winner," but once out on HRC's campaign trail simply rattled off his stump speech. "Hillary supports a $15 minimum wage... " [cough] [wink] Her bristled every time Bernie opened his mouth. So... you have no faith in Bernie fine. Who you gonna put your faith in? The "Movement?" Bueller? Anyone? The Ubers and Filthys don't fear us, the Repubs don't fear us, and The Donald don't fear us. Know who they fear?
Bernie.

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—

"The Democratic Party is better than the Republican Party in the way that manslaughter is slightly better than murder: It might seem like a lesser crime, but the victim can’t really tell the difference." -- Michael Harriot

@Cassiodorus
The Greens stealing yet another one from Team Blue. One would think they're the sister party of the Repubs. And, I know, I know, Ralphie didn't steal anything from anyone. Had the Dems had a real candidate, blah blah blah, they would have won. Funny, we had the same argument this year. (and both are valid).
And, I don't like to rag on Raalph, truly, becuz his ideas are more progressive than your average Dem. He's certainly not Dem Lite. But... if you Know you're only going to pick up 2%, 3%, 4% of the vote (and you Do know that) - and a Large part of that 3% will take votes away from the Dems... well... why not limit your activity to supporting down ballot candidates - and give Dems a chance to win - 'cuz lord knows they could use it! I don't know that running a candidate for prez helps build your party any. Sure, it gives it some much needed PR, but... it also helps the Repubs.
The Dem party is mostly center-left, but there's a significant if not growing center-right. The only way to cure that is to continue moving the party Left, hoping to attract more progs to the fold. And while the party "Leadership" continues to push the party hard right, that pretty much leaves it up to the rank & file to push back. Or spend 10, 15, 25 years building a new Lefty party. I'd rather spend the time rebuilding the Dem party, but your mileage may vary. One thing is certain. The Status Quo cannot stand.

Need any evidence see Jill's 2016 election effort. 2%. Hell, an unknown running as an "independent" got 4%. The Greens are dead. And, when I hear talk here of "building a new party," I just think of the 25 year effort of the Greens to garner 2%.

Of course, such statements assume a homogeneous history, it's all one straight shot to 2%, never mind Ralph Nader or the betrayal in Milwaukee or for that matter any of the actual events occurring between 1990 and the present-day which might have moved things one way or another.

And I suppose if you don't like the Democrats you can always vote Whig. They're still the other party, of course, because the Two-Party System is eternal as everyone knows.

Moreover, the current course of policy, where the two parties take turns trying to get rid of Social Security and stuff like that, will never cause anyone to rise up in revolt. It's the current parties forever, baby. One of them appoints the oil industry to deal with climate change and the other promotes climate change denial, but nothing could ever go wrong. Right?

About ten months ago I put out this diary, followed by this diary. It's not like we don't understand the scope or requirements of the new-party project.

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the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

That's why I posted the "we need an 1856 moment diary." The Republicans of old did not worry about spending "10, 15, 25 years" building any party. They started a party in 1854 and by 1861 they occupied the White House.

Look, I already made this argument several times over. This is the last time I waste it on you.

#7.1.5.1.1.1.2.1
The Greens stealing yet another one from Team Blue. One would think they're the sister party of the Repubs. And, I know, I know, Ralphie didn't steal anything from anyone. Had the Dems had a real candidate, blah blah blah, they would have won. Funny, we had the same argument this year. (and both are valid).
And, I don't like to rag on Raalph, truly, becuz his ideas are more progressive than your average Dem. He's certainly not Dem Lite. But... if you Know you're only going to pick up 2%, 3%, 4% of the vote (and you Do know that) - and a Large part of that 3% will take votes away from the Dems... well... why not limit your activity to supporting down ballot candidates - and give Dems a chance to win - 'cuz lord knows they could use it! I don't know that running a candidate for prez helps build your party any. Sure, it gives it some much needed PR, but... it also helps the Repubs.
The Dem party is mostly center-left, but there's a significant if not growing center-right. The only way to cure that is to continue moving the party Left, hoping to attract more progs to the fold. And while the party "Leadership" continues to push the party hard right, that pretty much leaves it up to the rank & file to push back. Or spend 10, 15, 25 years building a new Lefty party. I'd rather spend the time rebuilding the Dem party, but your mileage may vary. One thing is certain. The Status Quo cannot stand.

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—

"The Democratic Party is better than the Republican Party in the way that manslaughter is slightly better than murder: It might seem like a lesser crime, but the victim can’t really tell the difference." -- Michael Harriot

#7.1.5.1.1 c'mon did you really just admit you never read the evidence? And you "just listened to Bernie" about it? Thanks, that does 'splain the constant contrary. "But did you get info from Chelsea about the wall lamps?" was one eye-opening conversation. Execs at the highest level of government, can't even compose a proper email thread, and omg the garbage that Microsoft Outlook spews and obfuscates at the same time. What a piece of garbage software, probably mandated because monopoly. No wonder there are leaks all over the world, in addition to Seth's drop. Thanks, if it was really him, he is changing the world for better.

The comment you just dropped about the Green Party being dead sounds bitter, sorry you feel burned or unsupported in NY. {hug} Whatever the distress, I am pretty pretty sure NY Ds are not going to do much except what the evil status quo allows, perpetually not enough. Just like CA, tons of money goes where now? Oh yeah, and The Clinton Global Foundation is where now?

Bernie is shilling for corporate Democrats, on tour to GOTV and prop up another dead party walking, under cover of the word revolution. That's a shame, I think. He is working like there is a democracy, not an oligarchy, and that is dishonest. Get the money out, then voters can respond. He must know it. Regular people can't compete with lobbyists and consultants, they're eaten alive once assimilated in to the party structure, consumed by pervasive greed. Only plastic people get promoted. That's my observation, nothing has changed. Keep pushing that boulder if it makes you happy, but don't expect positive change.

Peace & Love
Edited to add: this video speaks for itself, carnival bark much? "We'll be there fighting" riiight (also he may sell you the Brooklyn Bridge but go on), like the last eight years? uh-huh. Let them go Bernie, please don't associate with bullshit like this:

It's the concept of democracy they want to kill. They hate American non-billionaire Poors for the freedoms they've mostly taken away by now, because they know it's all unconstitutional and that they can't really. They've only been getting away with all of this because the people have overall just accepted their crimes as 'done deals', 'to be fixed next time', again and again.

Edited to capitalize a letter and to add a letter. Lucky I'm not writing a letter...

that they are undermining "Bernie-Sanders-style candidates" when they just finished undermining Bernie Sanders?

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

I realize this will not be a popular response here, but I'm busting my ass to get more folks in my community to vote. There are plenty of problems with Dems where I am, but we are a Dem-majority place in the middle of a vast redness. Bernie won this area pretty much any way it's sliced for results, but the power has been entrenched with the establishment/corporatist arm of the party. But the local tax office here, which runs voter registration efforts, has been working night and day to increase voter accessibility. Our city of a fair size (over a million and growing by over 100 per day) has reached 90+ percent voter registration. I've registered a couple hundred or so of them, myself.

I went and heard the first forum last night of the (so far) six potential candidates to run against the Republican who represents my congressional district, and they were all good people with values very close to my own. I've gotten to know one of them this week (we've been to at least three events together), and he's the real deal. I also know and admire (and HAVE KNOWN) most of my Dem representatives at the local level for going on a decade, and I admire and trust them and even know some of their children and pets. Before the increased Gerrymandering in Texas after the 2010 census, I even knew my Congressman a bit, and he may have even known my name at that time - I probably was at small events (public events, not of the fundraising kind) once per quarter. In 2008, he was targeted by bussed-in Tea Partiers at his informal town halls. I was at an event of which the video went viral and I must have been standing immediately to one side of the person who made the video.

Everyone should work for what they feel called to work for, but being a Dem does not make everyone evil. There is a fatal (and contagious) sickness in those who are main-lining cash, but it hasn't infected everyone, and those folks will die off, frankly. The people are taking the party back. Not all of them were/are Bernie supporters, but in the end, those who aren't have more in common with the Bernie folks than not, and I believe there will be a coming together the majority will feel good about. It's not going to be easy.

The Our Revolution folks are doing important outreach. The Indivisible folks are doing important outreach. There are many active groups emerging & thriving - there must be!

Personally, I'd like to see the Progressive Democrats of America continue to come together and help focus the voice of the left's left.

Dems in general are not the problem. It's the establishment Dems who believe in donor money over people and planet. I believe they will be pushed aside...

We're doing it at the County executive committee level, and I'm constantly reading about how that's happening across the country. The Bernie supporters have infiltrated the party and are taking it back for the people, re-writing the party rules to stop having them be slanted in favor of big money. It doesn't happen over night. It happens by staying focused on the issues and talking about them ad naseum - just like Bernie has done for 30 years and more.

Just my two cents.

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27 users have voted.

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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

I realize this will not be a popular response here, but I'm busting my ass to get more folks in my community to vote. There are plenty of problems with Dems where I am, but we are a Dem-majority place in the middle of a vast redness. Bernie won this area pretty much any way it's sliced for results, but the power has been entrenched with the establishment/corporatist arm of the party. But the local tax office here, which runs voter registration efforts, has been working night and day to increase voter accessibility. Our city of a fair size (over a million and growing by over 100 per day) has reached 90+ percent voter registration. I've registered a couple hundred or so of them, myself.

I went and heard the first forum last night of the (so far) six potential candidates to run against the Republican who represents my congressional district, and they were all good people with values very close to my own. I've gotten to know one of them this week (we've been to at least three events together), and he's the real deal. I also know and admire (and HAVE KNOWN) most of my Dem representatives at the local level for going on a decade, and I admire and trust them and even know some of their children and pets. Before the increased Gerrymandering in Texas after the 2010 census, I even knew my Congressman a bit, and he may have even known my name at that time - I probably was at small events (public events, not of the fundraising kind) once per quarter. In 2008, he was targeted by bussed-in Tea Partiers at his informal town halls. I was at an event of which the video went viral and I must have been standing immediately to one side of the person who made the video.

Everyone should work for what they feel called to work for, but being a Dem does not make everyone evil. There is a fatal (and contagious) sickness in those who are main-lining cash, but it hasn't infected everyone, and those folks will die off, frankly. The people are taking the party back. Not all of them were/are Bernie supporters, but in the end, those who aren't have more in common with the Bernie folks than not, and I believe there will be a coming together the majority will feel good about. It's not going to be easy.

The Our Revolution folks are doing important outreach. The Indivisible folks are doing important outreach. There are many active groups emerging & thriving - there must be!

Personally, I'd like to see the Progressive Democrats of America continue to come together and help focus the voice of the left's left.

Dems in general are not the problem. It's the establishment Dems who believe in donor money over people and planet. I believe they will be pushed aside...

We're doing it at the County executive committee level, and I'm constantly reading about how that's happening across the country. The Bernie supporters have infiltrated the party and are taking it back for the people, re-writing the party rules to stop having them be slanted in favor of big money. It doesn't happen over night. It happens by staying focused on the issues and talking about them ad naseum - just like Bernie has done for 30 years and more.

@MsGrin@MsGrin
Then that Jimmy Dore video about the DNC's behavior in KS is very pertinent to your concerns, and it looks to my eye like Bernie is running into the same problem Howard Dean did: getting the actual funds and actual surrogate support to the progressive candidates, instead of having it either redirected to corporate candidates (which is what happened under Dean--not his fault, he lost a battle with Rahm Emanuel, basically) or, in this case, simply cut off in a kind of DNC blackout (something I've experienced myself in North Florida; don't try to get the DNC to run anybody in District 6, which they've basically ceded to the Republicans, and if you run a candidate without their blessing, they'll act like you don't exist: no funding, no mention of your name. Corinne Brown's response was something like "What has Dave Bruderly ever done for me?" instead of being "It would be great to take District 6 back from that shithead, Republican Cliff Stearns." And Corinne is a member of the CBC, not the Blue Dogs, so she's hardly the worst.)

A lot of people (not you, but a lot of other people with whom I've had this argument) tend to assume that those of us who oppose the strategy you've chosen have never done the pragmatic thing or played the inside game, that we know little or nothing of campaign politics, etc., but basically draw all our ideas from sitting in coffeeshops reading Marx and Murray Bookchin (would that it were so).

I realize this will not be a popular response here, but I'm busting my ass to get more folks in my community to vote. There are plenty of problems with Dems where I am, but we are a Dem-majority place in the middle of a vast redness. Bernie won this area pretty much any way it's sliced for results, but the power has been entrenched with the establishment/corporatist arm of the party. But the local tax office here, which runs voter registration efforts, has been working night and day to increase voter accessibility. Our city of a fair size (over a million and growing by over 100 per day) has reached 90+ percent voter registration. I've registered a couple hundred or so of them, myself.

I went and heard the first forum last night of the (so far) six potential candidates to run against the Republican who represents my congressional district, and they were all good people with values very close to my own. I've gotten to know one of them this week (we've been to at least three events together), and he's the real deal. I also know and admire (and HAVE KNOWN) most of my Dem representatives at the local level for going on a decade, and I admire and trust them and even know some of their children and pets. Before the increased Gerrymandering in Texas after the 2010 census, I even knew my Congressman a bit, and he may have even known my name at that time - I probably was at small events (public events, not of the fundraising kind) once per quarter. In 2008, he was targeted by bussed-in Tea Partiers at his informal town halls. I was at an event of which the video went viral and I must have been standing immediately to one side of the person who made the video.

Everyone should work for what they feel called to work for, but being a Dem does not make everyone evil. There is a fatal (and contagious) sickness in those who are main-lining cash, but it hasn't infected everyone, and those folks will die off, frankly. The people are taking the party back. Not all of them were/are Bernie supporters, but in the end, those who aren't have more in common with the Bernie folks than not, and I believe there will be a coming together the majority will feel good about. It's not going to be easy.

The Our Revolution folks are doing important outreach. The Indivisible folks are doing important outreach. There are many active groups emerging & thriving - there must be!

Personally, I'd like to see the Progressive Democrats of America continue to come together and help focus the voice of the left's left.

Dems in general are not the problem. It's the establishment Dems who believe in donor money over people and planet. I believe they will be pushed aside...

We're doing it at the County executive committee level, and I'm constantly reading about how that's happening across the country. The Bernie supporters have infiltrated the party and are taking it back for the people, re-writing the party rules to stop having them be slanted in favor of big money. It doesn't happen over night. It happens by staying focused on the issues and talking about them ad naseum - just like Bernie has done for 30 years and more.

Just my two cents.

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—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
whatever, claims to be "Democrat's" is a party owned by the donors
of which the Koch's are part of, it's why they said they wouldn't mind
hillary over trump.

Therefore they'll only fund their lapdogs, hired hands on the ranch, all
blue dogs who only do their tricks(sorry to all dogs) no way they'll fund
independent thinkers, new deal Dem's, real Democrat's. Being left of center
even in the center is considered evil to the DNC fucks.

#9#9 Then that Jimmy Dore video about the DNC's behavior in KS is very pertinent to your concerns, and it looks to my eye like Bernie is running into the same problem Howard Dean did: getting the actual funds and actual surrogate support to the progressive candidates, instead of having it either redirected to corporate candidates (which is what happened under Dean--not his fault, he lost a battle with Rahm Emanuel, basically) or, in this case, simply cut off in a kind of DNC blackout (something I've experienced myself in North Florida; don't try to get the DNC to run anybody in District 6, which they've basically ceded to the Republicans, and if you run a candidate without their blessing, they'll act like you don't exist: no funding, no mention of your name. Corinne Brown's response was something like "What has Dave Bruderly ever done for me?" instead of being "It would be great to take District 6 back from that shithead, Republican Cliff Stearns." And Corinne is a member of the CBC, not the Blue Dogs, so she's hardly the worst.)

A lot of people (not you, but a lot of other people with whom I've had this argument) tend to assume that those of us who oppose the strategy you've chosen have never done the pragmatic thing or played the inside game, that we know little or nothing of campaign politics, etc., but basically draw all our ideas from sitting in coffeeshops reading Marx and Murray Bookchin (would that it were so).

It doesn't happen over night. It happens by staying focused on the issues and talking about them ad naseum -

Too bad I can't eat Bernie's words, and too bad I can't afford chicken in California anymore too, somebody call the waahmbulance. Oh wait, there is none because CA is so damned great already. Subsidies galore for some, all others eat cake. "That's the system." AND "We're capitalists." who "try to mitigate" ever-increasing poverty and homelessness.

Bernie congratulating Brown for signing the weak-tea $15 wage bill was kick-my-guts dishonest, unless he follows up with the truth how that bill came to be on Brown's desk, and not the real Fight for $15 bill. Just like praising bullshit incrementally "free college" in NY. Nothing personal but fuck that lesser evil shit, stop codifying evil. Just stop the madness.

just like Bernie has done for 30 years and more.

That's the point exactly, in my view. Words don't mean shit unless you're the one holding all the (Clintonite) billionaire's keys. Real resistors don't comply with corrupt systems. There will never be enough votes to overthrow an oligarchy, only depriving them money will work, that's what I think.

Peace & Love

I realize this will not be a popular response here, but I'm busting my ass to get more folks in my community to vote. There are plenty of problems with Dems where I am, but we are a Dem-majority place in the middle of a vast redness. Bernie won this area pretty much any way it's sliced for results, but the power has been entrenched with the establishment/corporatist arm of the party. But the local tax office here, which runs voter registration efforts, has been working night and day to increase voter accessibility. Our city of a fair size (over a million and growing by over 100 per day) has reached 90+ percent voter registration. I've registered a couple hundred or so of them, myself.

I went and heard the first forum last night of the (so far) six potential candidates to run against the Republican who represents my congressional district, and they were all good people with values very close to my own. I've gotten to know one of them this week (we've been to at least three events together), and he's the real deal. I also know and admire (and HAVE KNOWN) most of my Dem representatives at the local level for going on a decade, and I admire and trust them and even know some of their children and pets. Before the increased Gerrymandering in Texas after the 2010 census, I even knew my Congressman a bit, and he may have even known my name at that time - I probably was at small events (public events, not of the fundraising kind) once per quarter. In 2008, he was targeted by bussed-in Tea Partiers at his informal town halls. I was at an event of which the video went viral and I must have been standing immediately to one side of the person who made the video.

Everyone should work for what they feel called to work for, but being a Dem does not make everyone evil. There is a fatal (and contagious) sickness in those who are main-lining cash, but it hasn't infected everyone, and those folks will die off, frankly. The people are taking the party back. Not all of them were/are Bernie supporters, but in the end, those who aren't have more in common with the Bernie folks than not, and I believe there will be a coming together the majority will feel good about. It's not going to be easy.

The Our Revolution folks are doing important outreach. The Indivisible folks are doing important outreach. There are many active groups emerging & thriving - there must be!

Personally, I'd like to see the Progressive Democrats of America continue to come together and help focus the voice of the left's left.

Dems in general are not the problem. It's the establishment Dems who believe in donor money over people and planet. I believe they will be pushed aside...

We're doing it at the County executive committee level, and I'm constantly reading about how that's happening across the country. The Bernie supporters have infiltrated the party and are taking it back for the people, re-writing the party rules to stop having them be slanted in favor of big money. It doesn't happen over night. It happens by staying focused on the issues and talking about them ad naseum - just like Bernie has done for 30 years and more.

It doesn't happen over night. It happens by staying focused on the issues and talking about them ad naseum -

Too bad I can't eat Bernie's words, and too bad I can't afford chicken in California anymore too, somebody call the waahmbulance. Oh wait, there is none because CA is so damned great already. Subsidies galore for some, all others eat cake. "That's the system." AND "We're capitalists." who "try to mitigate" ever-increasing poverty and homelessness.

Bernie congratulating Brown for signing the weak-tea $15 wage bill was kick-my-guts dishonest, unless he follows up with the truth how that bill came to be on Brown's desk, and not the real Fight for $15 bill. Just like praising bullshit incrementally "free college" in NY. Nothing personal but fuck that lesser evil shit, stop codifying evil. Just stop the madness.

just like Bernie has done for 30 years and more.

That's the point exactly, in my view. Words don't mean shit unless you're the one holding all the (Clintonite) billionaire's keys. Real resistors don't comply with corrupt systems. There will never be enough votes to overthrow an oligarchy, only depriving them money will work, that's what I think.

Peace & Love

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—

"Some members of the government are now investigating opioid pain killers but they are investigating the wrong thing. Despair-masking drugs are not the problem. Despair is."
-- featheredsprite

@eyo
starts in the Fall with students living in households of $100 Large or less. Sounds pretty real to me. There are many of us in the 47% that will take advantage of that. And, a $15 bill is a $15 bill. That "qualifiers" are attached... so what? Like here in NY, CA going to get their $15. These little crumbs may be handed out by corporate Dems, but we'll take the crumbs.

It doesn't happen over night. It happens by staying focused on the issues and talking about them ad naseum -

Too bad I can't eat Bernie's words, and too bad I can't afford chicken in California anymore too, somebody call the waahmbulance. Oh wait, there is none because CA is so damned great already. Subsidies galore for some, all others eat cake. "That's the system." AND "We're capitalists." who "try to mitigate" ever-increasing poverty and homelessness.

Bernie congratulating Brown for signing the weak-tea $15 wage bill was kick-my-guts dishonest, unless he follows up with the truth how that bill came to be on Brown's desk, and not the real Fight for $15 bill. Just like praising bullshit incrementally "free college" in NY. Nothing personal but fuck that lesser evil shit, stop codifying evil. Just stop the madness.

just like Bernie has done for 30 years and more.

That's the point exactly, in my view. Words don't mean shit unless you're the one holding all the (Clintonite) billionaire's keys. Real resistors don't comply with corrupt systems. There will never be enough votes to overthrow an oligarchy, only depriving them money will work, that's what I think.

Peace & Love

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4 users have voted.

—

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@eyo@eyo
" Bernie, w/ Perez a few yards away backstage: "Our job is to radically transform the Democratic Party into a 50-state party." " – Dave Weigel
That doesn't sound like the Bernie they talk about on here, it sounds like the Bernie that only I, apparently, seem to get. The same one he's been for the last forty years or more. But, but, but, lest you forget, Wink, he's playing ball with the DNC - the rotten core of the Democratic party. What about that? True. True. But like his -ahem- "endorsement" -cough- of Her Highness, Bernie taking the route that makes sense to Bernie. The old geezer spanking the crap out of Perez' DNC while at the same time spreading his own message. Hillary again spinning in her political grave. "what we need to do, people, is fuck all this DNC bull$h!t, and get on with Transforming the Democratic party into a 50 state party!" "Ain't that right, Tom?!" Tom? Tom? "Somebody get Tom some water... "

It doesn't happen over night. It happens by staying focused on the issues and talking about them ad naseum -

Too bad I can't eat Bernie's words, and too bad I can't afford chicken in California anymore too, somebody call the waahmbulance. Oh wait, there is none because CA is so damned great already. Subsidies galore for some, all others eat cake. "That's the system." AND "We're capitalists." who "try to mitigate" ever-increasing poverty and homelessness.

Bernie congratulating Brown for signing the weak-tea $15 wage bill was kick-my-guts dishonest, unless he follows up with the truth how that bill came to be on Brown's desk, and not the real Fight for $15 bill. Just like praising bullshit incrementally "free college" in NY. Nothing personal but fuck that lesser evil shit, stop codifying evil. Just stop the madness.

just like Bernie has done for 30 years and more.

That's the point exactly, in my view. Words don't mean shit unless you're the one holding all the (Clintonite) billionaire's keys. Real resistors don't comply with corrupt systems. There will never be enough votes to overthrow an oligarchy, only depriving them money will work, that's what I think.

Peace & Love

up

2 users have voted.

—

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

Which I think got mentioned and replied to already, so what are we discussing? 40 years of Bernie talk talk talking has not transformed the political landscape in any significant way. He was allowed to get paid for widening the discussion, and that is what he did. Thanks.

Speaking of super-delegates, where's that rule change again? Is DNC still shoving money up some high-priced consultant's rear end? Pep rallies and focus groups make me sick anymore, but I am broke and hungry and on the verge of homelessness, so afraid. I try not to take it out on the people around me, who have no ability to respond. At the same time, I'm not gonna sit by and watch the bullshit carnival barkers continue to hurt people, that's just wrong.

#9.3#9.3
" Bernie, w/ Perez a few yards away backstage: "Our job is to radically transform the Democratic Party into a 50-state party." " – Dave Weigel
That doesn't sound like the Bernie they talk about on here, it sounds like the Bernie that only I, apparently, seem to get. The same one he's been for the last forty years or more. But, but, but, lest you forget, Wink, he's playing ball with the DNC - the rotten core of the Democratic party. What about that? True. True. But like his -ahem- "endorsement" -cough- of Her Highness, Bernie taking the route that makes sense to Bernie. The old geezer spanking the crap out of Perez' DNC while at the same time spreading his own message. Hillary again spinning in her political grave. "what we need to do, people, is fuck all this DNC bull$h!t, and get on with Transforming the Democratic party into a 50 state party!" "Ain't that right, Tom?!" Tom? Tom? "Somebody get Tom some water... "

Which I think got mentioned and replied to already, so what are we discussing? 40 years of Bernie talk talk talking has not transformed the political landscape in any significant way. He was allowed to get paid for widening the discussion, and that is what he did. Thanks.

Speaking of super-delegates, where's that rule change again? Is DNC still shoving money up some high-priced consultant's rear end? Pep rallies and focus groups make me sick anymore, but I am broke and hungry and on the verge of homelessness, so afraid. I try not to take it out on the people around me, who have no ability to respond. At the same time, I'm not gonna sit by and watch the bullshit carnival barkers continue to hurt people, that's just wrong.

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—

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

I mean, they have not yet and it's been 35 years by my clock of corporate money grubbing.

I still see the corporate owned and sponsored at the top of the national Democratic Party.

By what standards are you making that assumption?

Reminds me of my stock senses,"Wow, that's a neat company filling a huge gap in modern markets. Love how they profit from reducing waste..."

And then the company goes belly up because doing the right thing harms people making cheddar from doing the wrong thing. Seems like a quite similar situation to me.

I realize this will not be a popular response here, but I'm busting my ass to get more folks in my community to vote. There are plenty of problems with Dems where I am, but we are a Dem-majority place in the middle of a vast redness. Bernie won this area pretty much any way it's sliced for results, but the power has been entrenched with the establishment/corporatist arm of the party. But the local tax office here, which runs voter registration efforts, has been working night and day to increase voter accessibility. Our city of a fair size (over a million and growing by over 100 per day) has reached 90+ percent voter registration. I've registered a couple hundred or so of them, myself.

I went and heard the first forum last night of the (so far) six potential candidates to run against the Republican who represents my congressional district, and they were all good people with values very close to my own. I've gotten to know one of them this week (we've been to at least three events together), and he's the real deal. I also know and admire (and HAVE KNOWN) most of my Dem representatives at the local level for going on a decade, and I admire and trust them and even know some of their children and pets. Before the increased Gerrymandering in Texas after the 2010 census, I even knew my Congressman a bit, and he may have even known my name at that time - I probably was at small events (public events, not of the fundraising kind) once per quarter. In 2008, he was targeted by bussed-in Tea Partiers at his informal town halls. I was at an event of which the video went viral and I must have been standing immediately to one side of the person who made the video.

Everyone should work for what they feel called to work for, but being a Dem does not make everyone evil. There is a fatal (and contagious) sickness in those who are main-lining cash, but it hasn't infected everyone, and those folks will die off, frankly. The people are taking the party back. Not all of them were/are Bernie supporters, but in the end, those who aren't have more in common with the Bernie folks than not, and I believe there will be a coming together the majority will feel good about. It's not going to be easy.

The Our Revolution folks are doing important outreach. The Indivisible folks are doing important outreach. There are many active groups emerging & thriving - there must be!

Personally, I'd like to see the Progressive Democrats of America continue to come together and help focus the voice of the left's left.

Dems in general are not the problem. It's the establishment Dems who believe in donor money over people and planet. I believe they will be pushed aside...

We're doing it at the County executive committee level, and I'm constantly reading about how that's happening across the country. The Bernie supporters have infiltrated the party and are taking it back for the people, re-writing the party rules to stop having them be slanted in favor of big money. It doesn't happen over night. It happens by staying focused on the issues and talking about them ad naseum - just like Bernie has done for 30 years and more.

I'm not against the Democrats, per se, so much as I'm against this magical thinking that says:

1) The Two-Party System is eternal and written in stone

2) What matters is not a person's relation to capital or their location within the economy, but whether they have a (D) or an (R) next to their name.

I realize this will not be a popular response here, but I'm busting my ass to get more folks in my community to vote. There are plenty of problems with Dems where I am, but we are a Dem-majority place in the middle of a vast redness. Bernie won this area pretty much any way it's sliced for results, but the power has been entrenched with the establishment/corporatist arm of the party. But the local tax office here, which runs voter registration efforts, has been working night and day to increase voter accessibility. Our city of a fair size (over a million and growing by over 100 per day) has reached 90+ percent voter registration. I've registered a couple hundred or so of them, myself.

I went and heard the first forum last night of the (so far) six potential candidates to run against the Republican who represents my congressional district, and they were all good people with values very close to my own. I've gotten to know one of them this week (we've been to at least three events together), and he's the real deal. I also know and admire (and HAVE KNOWN) most of my Dem representatives at the local level for going on a decade, and I admire and trust them and even know some of their children and pets. Before the increased Gerrymandering in Texas after the 2010 census, I even knew my Congressman a bit, and he may have even known my name at that time - I probably was at small events (public events, not of the fundraising kind) once per quarter. In 2008, he was targeted by bussed-in Tea Partiers at his informal town halls. I was at an event of which the video went viral and I must have been standing immediately to one side of the person who made the video.

Everyone should work for what they feel called to work for, but being a Dem does not make everyone evil. There is a fatal (and contagious) sickness in those who are main-lining cash, but it hasn't infected everyone, and those folks will die off, frankly. The people are taking the party back. Not all of them were/are Bernie supporters, but in the end, those who aren't have more in common with the Bernie folks than not, and I believe there will be a coming together the majority will feel good about. It's not going to be easy.

The Our Revolution folks are doing important outreach. The Indivisible folks are doing important outreach. There are many active groups emerging & thriving - there must be!

Personally, I'd like to see the Progressive Democrats of America continue to come together and help focus the voice of the left's left.

Dems in general are not the problem. It's the establishment Dems who believe in donor money over people and planet. I believe they will be pushed aside...

We're doing it at the County executive committee level, and I'm constantly reading about how that's happening across the country. The Bernie supporters have infiltrated the party and are taking it back for the people, re-writing the party rules to stop having them be slanted in favor of big money. It doesn't happen over night. It happens by staying focused on the issues and talking about them ad naseum - just like Bernie has done for 30 years and more.

Just my two cents.

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14 users have voted.

—

"The Democratic Party is better than the Republican Party in the way that manslaughter is slightly better than murder: It might seem like a lesser crime, but the victim can’t really tell the difference." -- Michael Harriot

to you and your fellow constituents. As my wise old grandfather used to say, "Slow and steady wins the race." Impatience is understandable, but only useful in small doses.

BTW, what do the folks in your district think of our current Sec of State? Just curious. . . .

Best of luck!

I realize this will not be a popular response here, but I'm busting my ass to get more folks in my community to vote. There are plenty of problems with Dems where I am, but we are a Dem-majority place in the middle of a vast redness. Bernie won this area pretty much any way it's sliced for results, but the power has been entrenched with the establishment/corporatist arm of the party. But the local tax office here, which runs voter registration efforts, has been working night and day to increase voter accessibility. Our city of a fair size (over a million and growing by over 100 per day) has reached 90+ percent voter registration. I've registered a couple hundred or so of them, myself.

I went and heard the first forum last night of the (so far) six potential candidates to run against the Republican who represents my congressional district, and they were all good people with values very close to my own. I've gotten to know one of them this week (we've been to at least three events together), and he's the real deal. I also know and admire (and HAVE KNOWN) most of my Dem representatives at the local level for going on a decade, and I admire and trust them and even know some of their children and pets. Before the increased Gerrymandering in Texas after the 2010 census, I even knew my Congressman a bit, and he may have even known my name at that time - I probably was at small events (public events, not of the fundraising kind) once per quarter. In 2008, he was targeted by bussed-in Tea Partiers at his informal town halls. I was at an event of which the video went viral and I must have been standing immediately to one side of the person who made the video.

Everyone should work for what they feel called to work for, but being a Dem does not make everyone evil. There is a fatal (and contagious) sickness in those who are main-lining cash, but it hasn't infected everyone, and those folks will die off, frankly. The people are taking the party back. Not all of them were/are Bernie supporters, but in the end, those who aren't have more in common with the Bernie folks than not, and I believe there will be a coming together the majority will feel good about. It's not going to be easy.

The Our Revolution folks are doing important outreach. The Indivisible folks are doing important outreach. There are many active groups emerging & thriving - there must be!

Personally, I'd like to see the Progressive Democrats of America continue to come together and help focus the voice of the left's left.

Dems in general are not the problem. It's the establishment Dems who believe in donor money over people and planet. I believe they will be pushed aside...

We're doing it at the County executive committee level, and I'm constantly reading about how that's happening across the country. The Bernie supporters have infiltrated the party and are taking it back for the people, re-writing the party rules to stop having them be slanted in favor of big money. It doesn't happen over night. It happens by staying focused on the issues and talking about them ad naseum - just like Bernie has done for 30 years and more.

@MsGrin
Is just another facet of the problem. It's the same old partisan bullshit just from "our" side.

I think it's indisputably true that the Democratic PARTY is evil. But individuals are individuals. I'm a guy more focused on the outside attack. But I value your efforts to reform from within. Even were you and I in the same geographic area we would not exactly be working at cross purposes. I'd be trying to get Democrats to vote Green instead because corporate Democrats suck. You'd be saying something to the effect of "Sure they do. But my guy is a Berniecrat."

Both of us are decrying corporatism which, in the end, is the important message.

I realize this will not be a popular response here, but I'm busting my ass to get more folks in my community to vote. There are plenty of problems with Dems where I am, but we are a Dem-majority place in the middle of a vast redness. Bernie won this area pretty much any way it's sliced for results, but the power has been entrenched with the establishment/corporatist arm of the party. But the local tax office here, which runs voter registration efforts, has been working night and day to increase voter accessibility. Our city of a fair size (over a million and growing by over 100 per day) has reached 90+ percent voter registration. I've registered a couple hundred or so of them, myself.

I went and heard the first forum last night of the (so far) six potential candidates to run against the Republican who represents my congressional district, and they were all good people with values very close to my own. I've gotten to know one of them this week (we've been to at least three events together), and he's the real deal. I also know and admire (and HAVE KNOWN) most of my Dem representatives at the local level for going on a decade, and I admire and trust them and even know some of their children and pets. Before the increased Gerrymandering in Texas after the 2010 census, I even knew my Congressman a bit, and he may have even known my name at that time - I probably was at small events (public events, not of the fundraising kind) once per quarter. In 2008, he was targeted by bussed-in Tea Partiers at his informal town halls. I was at an event of which the video went viral and I must have been standing immediately to one side of the person who made the video.

Everyone should work for what they feel called to work for, but being a Dem does not make everyone evil. There is a fatal (and contagious) sickness in those who are main-lining cash, but it hasn't infected everyone, and those folks will die off, frankly. The people are taking the party back. Not all of them were/are Bernie supporters, but in the end, those who aren't have more in common with the Bernie folks than not, and I believe there will be a coming together the majority will feel good about. It's not going to be easy.

The Our Revolution folks are doing important outreach. The Indivisible folks are doing important outreach. There are many active groups emerging & thriving - there must be!

Personally, I'd like to see the Progressive Democrats of America continue to come together and help focus the voice of the left's left.

Dems in general are not the problem. It's the establishment Dems who believe in donor money over people and planet. I believe they will be pushed aside...

We're doing it at the County executive committee level, and I'm constantly reading about how that's happening across the country. The Bernie supporters have infiltrated the party and are taking it back for the people, re-writing the party rules to stop having them be slanted in favor of big money. It doesn't happen over night. It happens by staying focused on the issues and talking about them ad naseum - just like Bernie has done for 30 years and more.

Just my two cents.

up

5 users have voted.

—

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

@MsGrin
the need to flush the party down the toilet either. I'm certainly no fan of "corporate Dems," but the party still is salvageable, I believe. And, if it isn't... no big loss. It's why I said here we need to work both sides of the street, side by side. Either get them in your local Dem party or get them in a "non-party." Just get them in.

I realize this will not be a popular response here, but I'm busting my ass to get more folks in my community to vote. There are plenty of problems with Dems where I am, but we are a Dem-majority place in the middle of a vast redness. Bernie won this area pretty much any way it's sliced for results, but the power has been entrenched with the establishment/corporatist arm of the party. But the local tax office here, which runs voter registration efforts, has been working night and day to increase voter accessibility. Our city of a fair size (over a million and growing by over 100 per day) has reached 90+ percent voter registration. I've registered a couple hundred or so of them, myself.

I went and heard the first forum last night of the (so far) six potential candidates to run against the Republican who represents my congressional district, and they were all good people with values very close to my own. I've gotten to know one of them this week (we've been to at least three events together), and he's the real deal. I also know and admire (and HAVE KNOWN) most of my Dem representatives at the local level for going on a decade, and I admire and trust them and even know some of their children and pets. Before the increased Gerrymandering in Texas after the 2010 census, I even knew my Congressman a bit, and he may have even known my name at that time - I probably was at small events (public events, not of the fundraising kind) once per quarter. In 2008, he was targeted by bussed-in Tea Partiers at his informal town halls. I was at an event of which the video went viral and I must have been standing immediately to one side of the person who made the video.

Everyone should work for what they feel called to work for, but being a Dem does not make everyone evil. There is a fatal (and contagious) sickness in those who are main-lining cash, but it hasn't infected everyone, and those folks will die off, frankly. The people are taking the party back. Not all of them were/are Bernie supporters, but in the end, those who aren't have more in common with the Bernie folks than not, and I believe there will be a coming together the majority will feel good about. It's not going to be easy.

The Our Revolution folks are doing important outreach. The Indivisible folks are doing important outreach. There are many active groups emerging & thriving - there must be!

Personally, I'd like to see the Progressive Democrats of America continue to come together and help focus the voice of the left's left.

Dems in general are not the problem. It's the establishment Dems who believe in donor money over people and planet. I believe they will be pushed aside...

We're doing it at the County executive committee level, and I'm constantly reading about how that's happening across the country. The Bernie supporters have infiltrated the party and are taking it back for the people, re-writing the party rules to stop having them be slanted in favor of big money. It doesn't happen over night. It happens by staying focused on the issues and talking about them ad naseum - just like Bernie has done for 30 years and more.

Just my two cents.

up

2 users have voted.

—

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@MsGrin
My take is that working on the inside will act as some sort of anchor keep the party from drifting outright into Republicanland in all but name. That may keep enough of the Dem organizations somewhat grounded in reality. But, while I applaud your vigorous efforts, true change is not going to occur via the Dem party under any circumstance. Like Kamikaze pilots, they are willing to go down to die in their planes for the glory of the Empire.

Anybody who fights the establishment, whether from inside or outside, has my approval.

I realize this will not be a popular response here, but I'm busting my ass to get more folks in my community to vote. There are plenty of problems with Dems where I am, but we are a Dem-majority place in the middle of a vast redness. Bernie won this area pretty much any way it's sliced for results, but the power has been entrenched with the establishment/corporatist arm of the party. But the local tax office here, which runs voter registration efforts, has been working night and day to increase voter accessibility. Our city of a fair size (over a million and growing by over 100 per day) has reached 90+ percent voter registration. I've registered a couple hundred or so of them, myself.

I went and heard the first forum last night of the (so far) six potential candidates to run against the Republican who represents my congressional district, and they were all good people with values very close to my own. I've gotten to know one of them this week (we've been to at least three events together), and he's the real deal. I also know and admire (and HAVE KNOWN) most of my Dem representatives at the local level for going on a decade, and I admire and trust them and even know some of their children and pets. Before the increased Gerrymandering in Texas after the 2010 census, I even knew my Congressman a bit, and he may have even known my name at that time - I probably was at small events (public events, not of the fundraising kind) once per quarter. In 2008, he was targeted by bussed-in Tea Partiers at his informal town halls. I was at an event of which the video went viral and I must have been standing immediately to one side of the person who made the video.

Everyone should work for what they feel called to work for, but being a Dem does not make everyone evil. There is a fatal (and contagious) sickness in those who are main-lining cash, but it hasn't infected everyone, and those folks will die off, frankly. The people are taking the party back. Not all of them were/are Bernie supporters, but in the end, those who aren't have more in common with the Bernie folks than not, and I believe there will be a coming together the majority will feel good about. It's not going to be easy.

The Our Revolution folks are doing important outreach. The Indivisible folks are doing important outreach. There are many active groups emerging & thriving - there must be!

Personally, I'd like to see the Progressive Democrats of America continue to come together and help focus the voice of the left's left.

Dems in general are not the problem. It's the establishment Dems who believe in donor money over people and planet. I believe they will be pushed aside...

We're doing it at the County executive committee level, and I'm constantly reading about how that's happening across the country. The Bernie supporters have infiltrated the party and are taking it back for the people, re-writing the party rules to stop having them be slanted in favor of big money. It doesn't happen over night. It happens by staying focused on the issues and talking about them ad naseum - just like Bernie has done for 30 years and more.

@psychodrew
Rahmbo called us "retards" and he meant it. Votes and an occasional small donation are all we are to them. (By "we" I mean my definition of the left -FDR, Clean Gene, RFK, etc.) Unless and until they respect us (zero chance) or at least fear us (possible), we will get nothing more than slogans and lip service from the DNC and most elected federal Democratic office holders.

Ironic that the party built on the backs of hard working men and women has turned its back on them. It's money that rules America 2017 and the Democrats are no exception. There was a time when I believed that the Dems were still capable of helping the middle class and underprivileged citizens of America. I haven't felt that way for quite some time. My fear is that the two party system is so ingrained into American politics that nothing short of a full blown revolution can change the paradigm.

Nothing will change until the leaders fear the voters. The base by and large behave like sheep and the leaders treat them as such.

#11 Rahmbo called us "retards" and he meant it. Votes and an occasional small donation are all we are to them. (By "we" I mean my definition of the left -FDR, Clean Gene, RFK, etc.) Unless and until they respect us (zero chance) or at least fear us (possible), we will get nothing more than slogans and lip service from the DNC and most elected federal Democratic office holders.

Ironic that the party built on the backs of hard working men and women has turned its back on them. It's money that rules America 2017 and the Democrats are no exception. There was a time when I believed that the Dems were still capable of helping the middle class and underprivileged citizens of America. I haven't felt that way for quite some time. My fear is that the two party system is so ingrained into American politics that nothing short of a full blown revolution can change the paradigm.

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the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

largely because of the dualism that is inherent in our strictly 2-Party system. This intrinsic dualism artificially compresses the whole of American political thinking and activity into a binary straightjacket. It enforces a yes/no, right/wrong, either/or paradigm on the body politic, one that cannot possibly correspond accurately to the will and the needs of the public. It tends to concentrate political power instead of dispersing it, by denying minority groups all access to effective participation in government, unless they are beholden to either one half of the Duopoly or the other. To me this seems a profoundly un-democratic system of political organization, particularly for a nation as large and diverse as the USA.

The Dems pretend to care about progressive causes, but function as a buffer against them.
The Repubs pretend to care about working people, but couldn't give a shit less.

it just might work. Even though it's been tried for over 100 years and people like Eugene Debs have decried the duopoly, times are different now. The people are ready for the New Democratic Party. It's time for a change, Democrats 2018. Vote your conscience!
I think it just might work, see, because the republicans and Trump are so fucked up, the people are going to want a change and what better way to make a change than to turn to the other party. That is change you can believe in. Hey, maybe they can use that as a slogan.

... is the information age. Sure, on one hand, they get to watch us as we watch TV. On the other hand, nowadays even the NSA can't keep a secret. Their shenanigans are so much harder to hide and it's equally hard for them to control the narrative.

I often-times think people severely underestimate the changes that the information age has wrought in our society. I think it's one of those things that's easier to see in hindsight like the Industrial Age.

Anyway, I have hopes that despite the establishment's best efforts, people are slowly being informed in the information age.

it just might work. Even though it's been tried for over 100 years and people like Eugene Debs have decried the duopoly, times are different now. The people are ready for the New Democratic Party. It's time for a change, Democrats 2018. Vote your conscience!
I think it just might work, see, because the republicans and Trump are so fucked up, the people are going to want a change and what better way to make a change than to turn to the other party. That is change you can believe in. Hey, maybe they can use that as a slogan.

up

5 users have voted.

—

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

@Big Al
Nobody seems to care that the politicians are basically using the same monopoly techniques that the industrialists are. "Where else ya gonna go?" is, ultimately, an argument for the company store.

I'm a miner, and someday I'm gonna take over the company store from Massey corp. I know it'll happen one day soon. If I just work hard enough and stay plucky.

it just might work. Even though it's been tried for over 100 years and people like Eugene Debs have decried the duopoly, times are different now. The people are ready for the New Democratic Party. It's time for a change, Democrats 2018. Vote your conscience!
I think it just might work, see, because the republicans and Trump are so fucked up, the people are going to want a change and what better way to make a change than to turn to the other party. That is change you can believe in. Hey, maybe they can use that as a slogan.

up

3 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Well, Americans are stuck with the Two-Faced Corporate Party Trade-Off either because the richest country in world can't afford more than two parties, as with universal public coverage of health-care or a living minimum wage, or because the corporate interests, multi-millionaires and billionaires don't want to have to worry about buying up more than two parties.

Let's just assume it's the latter.

The whole freaking governmental mess is corrupt, branches and all, rotten to the core. The system has long been rigged, now it's institutionally rigged under Homeland Security, making the electoral infrastructure - everything - Top Secret except to HS and private interests and safe from any chance of citizen or other independent oversight.

I'm postulating that only the corporate Parties are permitted to even show more than a very few votes, as I'm pretty darned sure that Jill Stein got more than was officially declared and I rather suspect that The Mad Bomber's campaign snagged a fair percentage of hers, both to make it evident that no other Party could possibly even have enough admitted votes to enter debates and bring up verboten subjects such as facts and to fill out her rather scanty nose-holder Not-Trump votes, despite whatever cheating was engaged in, although I gather (surprise) that it appeared that cheating had occurred on both sides in the general.

Bur it appears that no non-corporate/billionaire-owned Party will ever be permitted to win any useful public office, where it's possible to cheat them of it, (seems that Homeland Security now has that widely covered,) barring such an obvious nation-wide landslide that a cheat would be impossible to conceal - although there the voters and/or votes would, no doubt, be disposed of in the manner seen in the notorious Dem nomination fake, with targeted mass-altered voter registrations, lost ballots, disposable/whited out ballots, etc..

However, if the Dem Party could be replaced by actual democratic candidates, (doubtful that they'd be allowed to win by corporate management, but let's pretend that they'd rather a peaceful revolution than a cabal-toss competition conducted by the pitchfork-wielding proletariat not yet run down by army tanks manned by yahoo militarized police or perforated by the bullets of mercenary forces, really pissing off the survivors,) could the Psychopaths That Be pretend that suddenly one-party elections were now all that America could manage? The optics wouldn't be good on that... so, back to the pitchforks.

It's a slim chance, but what are the options, aside from citizens using pointy farm implements in removing the ordure the old-fashioned way? While facing down a fully-armed-for-war army of Israeli-trained militarized police, Blackwater-offshoot mercenaries (hired killers, by whatever name, will somehow always stink the same) and the freaking kitchen sink of armed everybody The Psychopaths That Be can scrape up, etc., if not also their own army troops or those of other countries - all of which they'll be paying out of their own public funds to shoot at them for exercising their Constitutional right to change government the hard way, having been left no other option.

And when that 'they' turns out to be you and yours fighting for your lives against an occupying army with a 3-tined garden fork (because the larger pitchforks sold out or because they were too hard to manage with your walker) you might briefly wonder if it might not have been better to first try that insane idea of replacing corporate reps with progressives to take over the Dems, because there was just a slim chance it might actually have worked without bloodshed.

Because it's a bit different now than it was - the citizens know too much to be left unwatched and we're all going to be killed off anyway by these lunatics, one way or another, very, very soon - unless the people stop them now.

it just might work. Even though it's been tried for over 100 years and people like Eugene Debs have decried the duopoly, times are different now. The people are ready for the New Democratic Party. It's time for a change, Democrats 2018. Vote your conscience!
I think it just might work, see, because the republicans and Trump are so fucked up, the people are going to want a change and what better way to make a change than to turn to the other party. That is change you can believe in. Hey, maybe they can use that as a slogan.

up

1 user has voted.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

refuse to let go of the delusion that this freaking nightmare is down to the red vs blue. I guess it's easier to believe that a Demorat posing as a progressive and spouting bs about a political revolution is better then a Republican loonie. Most of the people I know in real life did support Bernie. However they caved and followed their leader. They started talking purity is bad and blaming the far left. They prefer the illusion of a two party democratic state to taking a good hard look at what America is about.

Ask me all of our elected representatives in power on every level, city. county, state or national including Bernie and his reform candidates are a complicit part of the fascistic duopoly from hell. Whether you live in Kansas or Oregon even if you manage to scare the crap out of people about the evil other side and get a so called progressive elected it won't do a damn thing. Even when your state's population is solid blue and relatively liberal once you toe the party line and vote for a Demorat your not going to see any difference other then the hypocritical lip service to 'socially liberal' so called values. The Democrat's progressive or centrist will fuck you over once elected.

Money. Why would anyone donate to their own demise? Why would anyone give their consent to governed by the assorted Makers of the MOAB's, Nestle, Nike, Monstanto, Big Oil, the for profit Healthcare Industries or Goldman Sachs and Company? The too big's own both parties. Why send any of these corrupt pols money or support them? Look at what they are doing now that they are the loyal opposition. I see no Demorat obstruction other then symbolic grandstanding and an occasional useless so called progressive legislative bone or amendment thrown coming from any Demorat's anywhere.

Cart before the horse politics and the cart is a load o' rats. Red or blue who cares? Do all Democratic voters even the progressives have convenient amnesia? How do they call this resistance to this horror show by continuing to believe that somehow the complicit Demorat's are better then or a lesser evil? Who cares about insider politics when the inside is rotten to the core regardless of whether they are D's or R's or tea baggers or 'progressives'.

This nightmare will remain inevitable until people really do resist. Hard to bite the global corporate hand that feeds you even if the food is poisonous, toxic and falsely labeled natural or organic. No real organic's allowed cause that's being a purist and it's against our global, national,state and local interest's. God knows we can't have the visible hand of the market suffer any profit loss. Let's do the money.

@shaharazade
Look at what the party did to Grayson.
Rahm Emanuel's description of progressives is "fucking retards", if memory serves me.
How does a person believe that they should join a group specifically to reform it? Would anyone join the KKK to change them into BLM? No. You would not join and when membership dwindles, the group dwindles.

refuse to let go of the delusion that this freaking nightmare is down to the red vs blue. I guess it's easier to believe that a Demorat posing as a progressive and spouting bs about a political revolution is better then a Republican loonie. Most of the people I know in real life did support Bernie. However they caved and followed their leader. They started talking purity is bad and blaming the far left. They prefer the illusion of a two party democratic state to taking a good hard look at what America is about.

Ask me all of our elected representatives in power on every level, city. county, state or national including Bernie and his reform candidates are a complicit part of the fascistic duopoly from hell. Whether you live in Kansas or Oregon even if you manage to scare the crap out of people about the evil other side and get a so called progressive elected it won't do a damn thing. Even when your state's population is solid blue and relatively liberal once you toe the party line and vote for a Demorat your not going to see any difference other then the hypocritical lip service to 'socially liberal' so called values. The Democrat's progressive or centrist will fuck you over once elected.

Money. Why would anyone donate to their own demise? Why would anyone give their consent to governed by the assorted Makers of the MOAB's, Nestle, Nike, Monstanto, Big Oil, the for profit Healthcare Industries or Goldman Sachs and Company? The too big's own both parties. Why send any of these corrupt pols money or support them? Look at what they are doing now that they are the loyal opposition. I see no Demorat obstruction other then symbolic grandstanding and an occasional useless so called progressive legislative bone or amendment thrown coming from any Demorat's anywhere.

Cart before the horse politics and the cart is a load o' rats. Red or blue who cares? Do all Democratic voters even the progressives have convenient amnesia? How do they call this resistance to this horror show by continuing to believe that somehow the complicit Demorat's are better then or a lesser evil? Who cares about insider politics when the inside is rotten to the core regardless of whether they are D's or R's or tea baggers or 'progressives'.

This nightmare will remain inevitable until people really do resist. Hard to bite the global corporate hand that feeds you even if the food is poisonous, toxic and falsely labeled natural or organic. No real organic's allowed cause that's being a purist and it's against our global, national,state and local interest's. God knows we can't have the visible hand of the market suffer any profit loss. Let's do the money.

and will until a few days after the Ds sabotage the 2018 elections. When the Ds lose another 10 senate and 50 house seats that is the time to announce that the Ds are officially done. Then progressives and good government independents (and even good government - and therefore disaffected - conservatives) will form a wave.
Of course, Trump could really, REALLY fuck up, so badly that even up front traitor Democrats could win. Then we're doomed.

@doh1304
in the Bernster. I just wish he had as much as we do. I don't think he realizes he can change the dynamic in, like, a month. All he needs to do is do what he did last year, B.C. Before the Convention. He does One-a-Days at College Campii all across the fruited plain and it's May, 2016 all over again.

and will until a few days after the Ds sabotage the 2018 elections. When the Ds lose another 10 senate and 50 house seats that is the time to announce that the Ds are officially done. Then progressives and good government independents (and even good government - and therefore disaffected - conservatives) will form a wave.
Of course, Trump could really, REALLY fuck up, so badly that even up front traitor Democrats could win. Then we're doomed.

up

4 users have voted.

—

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink
I believe. As cynical as I am about Democrats, obviously many others are too. At least for me, that's about the only way he could get his credibility back. And I think that may be the only way for enough of the electorate too. And it surely would be the only real way to maybe get both sides out of that duopoly mindset. A longshot, of course, but if he really wanted to get done what he says, it's the only way. They must fear us again in numbers, and siding with the slimy Democratic party isn't going to generate any real groundswell of support. Just my two cents.

#16
in the Bernster. I just wish he had as much as we do. I don't think he realizes he can change the dynamic in, like, a month. All he needs to do is do what he did last year, B.C. Before the Convention. He does One-a-Days at College Campii all across the fruited plain and it's May, 2016 all over again.

@Wink
that he'd have to literally put his life on the line to go fully Independent or stop censoring his views.

#16
in the Bernster. I just wish he had as much as we do. I don't think he realizes he can change the dynamic in, like, a month. All he needs to do is do what he did last year, B.C. Before the Convention. He does One-a-Days at College Campii all across the fruited plain and it's May, 2016 all over again.

Of course, Trump could really, REALLY fuck up, so badly that even up front traitor Democrats could win. Then we're doomed.

However we are probably not going to survive until 2020 because the Nuke-o-crats will have exercised their fiendishly suicidal wishes.

and will until a few days after the Ds sabotage the 2018 elections. When the Ds lose another 10 senate and 50 house seats that is the time to announce that the Ds are officially done. Then progressives and good government independents (and even good government - and therefore disaffected - conservatives) will form a wave.
Of course, Trump could really, REALLY fuck up, so badly that even up front traitor Democrats could win. Then we're doomed.

Looks like it's possibly still Her Turn Next (or some other scam perhaps simply using Her name?) according to a little something arriving in my inbox yesterday - backed by (Top Secret from the public but not private interests) Homeland Security electotal control over all electoral infrastructure, which includes everything, from voter databases to all polling locations.

is Hillary the RIGHTFUL President? [☑︎YES // ☒NO]

The following sponsored email was sent to you by AlterNet on behalf of NDTC:

24-HOUR FLASH POLL
EXPIRING SOON!

Do you think Hillary Clinton is the rightful President of the United States?

YES >>
NO >>

FACT: Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by over 3 MILLION votes.

FACT: Russia RIGGED our election to help elect Donald Trump.

FACT: Trump’s ties to Russia have been under FBI investigation since JULY of 2O16.

Look, we need to hear from our top supporters RIGHT NOW.

Let us know: Do you think Hillary is the Rightful President of the United States?

Wikipedia editors had multiple issues with this page: referencesTemplate:Copy editPOV!

oooh, orphan

This article was considered for deletion at Wikipedia on March 4 2017. This is a backup of Wikipedia:National_Democratic_Training_Committee. All of its AfDs can be found at Wikipedia:Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/National_Democratic_Training_Committee. Purge

The Democratic National Training Committee was established to train Democrats to run for every level of office.
About
company

The National Democratic Training Committee (“NDTC”) provides any Democrat running for any office with free access to online campaign training.[1][2] There is no litmus test and the NDTC does not make endorsements. The goal is to train as many Democratic candidates as possible.

Training is available 24/7 and in person and online. While training can be used for any level of campaign, the NDTC is currently focused on helping smaller local campaigns that cannot afford professional staff and consultants.
References

This article was considered for deletion at Wikipedia on January 1 2017. This is a backup of Wikipedia:THC_(production_team). All of its AfDs can be found at Wikipedia:Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/THC_(production_team). Purge

Musical artist

THC is an American hip hop production duo from Los Angeles, California, that consists of producers Rick Bricks (Ricci Riera) and Axl Folie (Axel Morgan). They formed in late 2008 and are currently signed to Top Dawg Entertainment and Interscope Records. They are best known for producing for artists in the hip hop industry such as OverDoz., ScHoolboy Q, Kendrick Lamar, Dom Kennedy, Mac Miller, Skeme, Casey Veggies, Nipsey Hussle, A$AP Rocky, Drake, Mick Jenkins, and Wale, among many others.
Contents

This article was considered for deletion at Wikipedia on March 19 2017. This is a backup of Wikipedia:Slate_Star_Codex. All of its AfDs can be found at Wikipedia:Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Slate_Star_Codex. PurgeTemplate:Pp-blp

Template:Pp-vandalism Template:Infobox website Slate Star Codex is a blog pseudonymously[1][2] written by Scott Alexander, a practising psychiatrist, and occasional guest bloggers. The blog covers a wide range of topics including psychiatry, psychopharmacology, scientific methodology, and political and social issues.
Contents

Science and statistics – p-hacking, the replication crisis (e.g. on growth mindset[3]), and reviews of topics and papers
Issues in psychiatry such as end-of-life care, psychopharmacology[4] and regulation of prescription drug prices[5]
The phenomenon of cost disease in some sectors of the US economy - K-12 education, college education, infrastructure, housing and healthcare,[6] including in Alexander's own profession, psychiatry.[7] Alexander argues that a lot of contemporary political debates actually stem from certain costs being much higher than they used to be.[7]
The political psychology behind the thinking of liberals who cheered the death of former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher but condemned those who cheered the death of notorious terrorist Osama Bin Laden[8]
Allegations of overt racism made by some journalists and commentators against Donald Trump, which Alexander argues are over the top and not justified by the facts[9][10]
Effective altruism, a philosophy of philanthropy that Alexander is sympathetic to.[2]
Neoreaction, a far-right political philosophy. Alexander has written two key essays on neoreaction – the first a summary of what neoreactionaries believe, and the second a rebuttal.[11]

Alexander periodically posts book reviews on Slate Star Codex. Slate Star Codex has regular "open threads" under which commenters can discuss anything they like, and regular links posts summarising links from around the Web.
Debate with Vox writer about pharmaceutical regulation

Template:Overly detailed In 2016, Alexander posted a long blog post on Slate Star Codex critiquing an article[12] on Vox that had called for pharmaceutical price regulation in the United States.[13] The Vox article had advocated this on the grounds that the price of the EpiPen had been hiked by 400% over the course of 9 years, and Sovaldi costed $1,000 per pill in the United States.[12] Alexander's post argued that the cause of the high prices was not too little regulation, but too muchTemplate:Spaced ndash that because the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) had rejected competitor after competitor to the EpiPen,[13] the EpiPen manufacturer had little competition and therefore had monopoly price-setting power.[5][14] It also argued that a US regulation mandating that if a prescription is for an "EpiPen", the pharmacist must provide an EpiPen specifically, not a cheaper generic alternative, also hurts competition.[1]

The author of the original Vox article, Sarah Kliff, wrote a follow-up article quoting and responding to Alexander's critique. In this follow-up, she acknowledged that Alexander's point, that the successful introduction of generics competing with the EpiPen product in the marketplace would force its price to come down, was "almost certainly true".[5] However, she argued that this was just another way in which the US regulatory system is "incredibly favourable to pharmaceutical companies", combining her original point that pharmaceutical prices are not regulated in the United States, unlike in "the vast majority of developed countries", with Alexander's point that the FDA makes it difficult for competitors to devices like the EpiPen to enter the marketplace. She went on to state that generic drugs are generally effective in bringing down drug prices, and stated that, when looking at the bigger picture of all prescription drug spending in the US, "brand name drugs are the reason that America has higher per-capita drug spending than other countries. Brand-name drugs make up just 10 percent of prescriptions filled in the United States, but account for 72 percent of drug spending," and then quoting from a review article by Harvard health economist Aaron Kesselheim to support her point about price regulation. She concluded the article by arguing that because patented drugs were the bigger issue, greater competition for generic drugs like the EpiPen would not make a big difference to the overall problem of excessively high US spending on prescription drugs.[5]

Alexander then wrote a further blog post responding to Kliff's response.[15]
Main author

Scott Alexander is a psychiatrist at a hospital in the United States. He is an atheist liberal[9] and considers himself part of the rationalist movement.
Reception

Megan McArdle, blogging on Bloomberg View, recommended the SSC post on cost disease.[17] The same post was linked from Marginal Revolution by Tyler Cowen, who called the post "very excellent".[18] Bloomberg View columnist and former assistant professor of finance, Noah Smith, also called the post "excellent" and noted "He's right. Americans pay much more for a university education than do people in Europe or East Asia. They pay about twice as much for health care and infrastructure, without any clear difference in quality."[6]
References

Please note familiar names from the original listing (which I failed to check on the intervening and likewise deleted link to 'THC (production team)' from the deleted 'Is Hillary the Rightful President' poll - no wonder this was only a 24-hour poll? Click-virus, perhaps?) such as 'THC (production team' and 'Southern Halo (band', which I happened to recognize.

Perhaps it's fortunate that I never have any money to steal and never do internet financial transactions, should this be some sort of keylogger install... but a very stupid Hillary attempt at stealing an election/tracking yes/no voters for future voter registration issues would hardly be surprising either...

Can anybody guess whether this smells more like David Brock or like a Nigerian Prince thing (only with keyloggers/other infections of some variety) I'll be sorry to have clicked on?

and will until a few days after the Ds sabotage the 2018 elections. When the Ds lose another 10 senate and 50 house seats that is the time to announce that the Ds are officially done. Then progressives and good government independents (and even good government - and therefore disaffected - conservatives) will form a wave.
Of course, Trump could really, REALLY fuck up, so badly that even up front traitor Democrats could win. Then we're doomed.

up

1 user has voted.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

I don't put my faith in any politician. When it comes time to vote again, it will probably be Peace and Freedom, if not Green. But I'm not going to be "loyal" to any one political party, especially not the bomb-dropping Ds and Rs. Fuck them and the warheads they ride around on, and I am never giving another red cent to any politician as long as I live, that's a no-brainer in my book now. Go on and make fun of my brain lack, it's okay with me. I yam what I yam.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.