Race-Baiting 24/7

I listened to Rush Limbaugh open his show yesterday with a rather incomprehensible rant about black kids beating up a white kid on a bus in St. Louis. Limbaugh was trying to use sarcasm to denounce people who cry "racism," but he wandered into a rhetorical alley in which he seemed to be blaming President Obama for the bus incident ("In Obama's America, the white kids now get beat up with the black kids cheering"). I doubt he meant it as literally as Andrew Sullivan took it. But I had the same general reaction: This is race-baiting. There was no reason to make a huge fuss about an isolated incident that, according to the cops, wasn't racial at its core, but just a case of bullying.

Michelle Malkin, fresh from declaring that 2 million people were at the Saturday's anti-government rally, also posted a link to the bus video under a headline referring to "Racial Thuggery" (originally the cops said it might have been a racially motivated incident). Only at the very end of her item does she append the "Update" in which she notes that the cops have said never mind, it wasn't racial. But apparently Malkin knows better than the St. Louis cops: "The police are backing off the racial motive claims. Given the explosive consequences of candor about such matters, this is not surprising."

Where does one get that talent for reading the minds of distant strangers?

(Before someone says "Yeah it's easy for you to say with your kids in some elite private school in Ward 3, etc.:Actually they go to a public high school school that is majority black and I've never heard anyone mention a single racially motivated fight.)

I also don't see where Jimmy Carter is helping the national discussion by declaring that opposition to Obama is "overwhelmingly" driven by racial animosity. I'm sorry, Mr. Former President, these people who dislike Obama probably disliked you even more when you were president. They disliked President Clinton. They dislike anything that smacks of big-government liberalism, tolerance for gays and abortion and gun control, and so on.

The Joe Wilson case sparked accusations of racism. But having interviewed a lot of people at the rally the other day, I didn't get the impression that those folks would like Obama more if he were blonde.

Eric Holder says we should have the courage to talk about race. We should also have to wisdom to know when it's not an important factor.

On his deathbed not too many years ago, a relative of mine confessed to having been part of a white lynch mob in the 1930s, which strung up a black man after he was caught having sex with a white woman. She accused him of rape. The sheriff led the lynch mob. There was no need for a trial; what a black man did to a white woman was considered so horrifying that nobody could wait for a trial and a verdict. After the black man was murdered, the guilt-stricken white woman confessed that the man had been her lover, and she called him a rapist to protect her honor.

None of us ever knew this about my kinsman, until in his dying days, he admitted it because it tortured him. It had been on his heart all his life. I pray that his repentance in the face of eternity helped him find mercy. It unnerved me, though, to think that that kindly old man had once fallen under the sway of race hatred to that degree, a race hatred that was part of the society into which he was born and raised. It still does, because that world seems like a thousand years ago. But it only seems so far away because many people worked too hard -- and some even gave their lives -- to drive those demons out.

It's Joel's job to be aware of, and write about, the likes of Rush, Michelle Malkin, Andrew Sullivan and Megan McArdle. I've had enough of them. Ostrichlike, I choose to ignore them and hope they go away. Just for today.

jkt, I most enjoy telling a joke that only a few people get and they think it is pretty funny. There must be a weirdness factor that has a name for that.

I tell a joke where the punchline is in Polish. One word and it is the only Polish in the joke. Usually Polish speaking scientist types are bent over in laughter and everyone else is just giving blank stares.

The fact that Obama is Still Not White is a contributing but not primary factor in most people's opposition to his policies. Poeple would be just as vociferous if Hillary Clinton were president, just in a different way.

I don't fault Former President Governor Mr. Carter at all for saying that. Never mind that many agree; every link provided, if chased down, will lead to the same conclusion. Of course the issue is muddied somewhat by the apparent fluid nature of meanings of "racist", "bigoted", and "prejudiced".

Opposition to President Hillary Clinton would have been widespread for a different reason. Obama is SNW (although he could talk to Michael Jackson's physicians about changing that -- you know, if he were serious about being President). George Bush had Dick Cheney behind him, you might say, but Hillary would not, thus she would suffer from Still Doesn't Have a [Richard] = SDHD.

The problem Joel, is that any incident in which a white person does, says, or in your mind, thinks anything negative about a black perason, it's automatically assumed to be racially motivated and Al, Jesse and the rest of the race-baiters come out of the wood work. Liberals tend to jump on the race train at every opportunity. Once again, the glaring double-standard of the left shows its true colors.

This kit makes me sad. The thing is, of course, we can't read other people's mind - even if we have been a victim of discrimination ourselves. Yet it is such a facile and seductive way of seeing the world.

Further, of course, the whole situation is complicated because bigotry really *does* exist and should never be ignored. But when one attributes all actions to bigotry (be it racism, sexism, or any other "ism") - when it is the explanation of first resort and not last resort - then the ability of such accusations to shame and enrage become hopelessly diminished.

As an independent with conservative viewpoints I really get tired of everyone saying this and that are racist or it appears to be racism. Come on. I am old enough to remember the 1970's when busing was the law. The most Liberal state in the Union even at that time was Massachuesetts and the people poured out into the streets protesting that their children would not be bussed to African American communities. So don't say it's the Southern Racist Conservative who is at fault. I personally am opposed to Racism and think if it was racism than call the person out. But no one called President Obama out when he said the police in Mass. were racist??!! Look at the picture of who is helping the professor; not Obama!! The man he said was a racist IS!! This is not a one way street as you would have us believe Joel!

I think that "race train" leaves from the same station as the "patriotism train" which was such a popular ride in the last administration. Let's see now, what was the other line that was so big back then? Oh yeah- "Why do Joe Wilson and all his supporters hate America so much?" Isn't that the way it went?

Proving that there were racists in Boston in the 70s doesn't exonerate anybody in the south now. And true hard core racists have always been a pretty small minority. In the 50s there were communists, pinkos, and dupes. I'm sure there is a similar continuum on the right.

No, No, mudge, knock it off with that kind of thinking. :-) Just comfort yourself with the knowledge that I remember the 1940s, since I was born in 1938. I will stay out of this discussion, except to say that all of my dear, sweet grandparents were prejudiced as well as my father and his generation. Some of my generation, too. Thankfully, I don't have to befriend them.

I wonder if "...I'm old enough to remember the 70s..." isn't good enough reason right now to shoot myself.
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Give yourself a little time, Mudge. The 70's are just as forgettable now as they ever were. Watch "Saturday Night Fever" and then shotgun a sixpack of Natty Bo. I guarantee the 70's will be a complete blank when you awaken.

In high school, I once had a fight with a black guy. White against black... can't remember who pushed who first, who threw out the first insult. I just know it escalated quickly and ended in a draw. Some saw it as a 10th grade racial battle in a school that had only been intergrated five years earlier. The other guy and myself saw it for what it was... a couple of evenly matched and passionate guys frustrated over a sport that neither one of us could win. See the analogy?

It is hard for many on the right to truly see racism or sexism because they cannot admit 1. they benefit from white, or male, privilege or 2. some intentional acts of ism are initiated on a subconscious level (like assuming the older black gentleman in the room is a waiter or the single woman in the room wants him).

I have hope though, racism may be replaced by classism in my lifetime.

The strangest accusation I've heard in recent days was regarding the Tea Party marchers in D.C.

Them: "Look at them! They're all WHITE! Goes to show you that, with such a lack of diversity, you KNOW it's racism behind their opposition to Obama!"
Me: So a lack of diversity in a group that opposes someone of the opposite race is defacto racism?
Them:"Of course!"
Me: Better not tell the Congressional Black Caucus. They'd have to censure themselves.

Give yourself a little time, Mudge. The 70's are just as forgettable now as they ever were. Watch "Saturday Night Fever" and then shotgun a sixpack of Natty Bo. I guarantee the 70's will be a complete blank when you awaken.

The depth and breath of ignorance of Glenn Beck is really impressive. The bible of his 912 movement (the 5000 year leap) was written by a nut job, Cleon Skousen. He was first an anti-communist nut job, then a New-World-Order nut job and finally a religious nut-job. Too nutty for the mormon church even. But Beck think he was a visionary.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/09/16/beck_skousen/

Canada, we gave you Father Coughlin, then Skousen. No need to thank us really, it was from the heart.

* sigh* I'm not sure we need to go to the bunker, per se, but I think a nice virtual lunch on the bunker back patio might be called for. We haven't had a virtual lunch in a while. Not exactly a private lunch, mind you...but one free of drive-bys, I think. Let's discuss poetry, and sports, the upcoming "House" season premiere, whether the rain will hurt the rhubarb (rhubarb!!! we haven't talked rhubarb in AGES!!), the virtues of a dry pinot grigio over (or not over) a nice semi-sweet riesling, the inflied fly rule, and perhaps (god forbid) doilies.

Is there anyone who can check up on Cassandra? It's not like her to stay away so long. Add me to worry list.

All of these glassbowls out there crying that they're victims when they would be the first to take their knitting to their favorite lynching spot (figuratively or literally) are completely and totally nutz. I'd be interested in knowing which companies sponsor the Faux News (radio or television) idiots, so I can add them to my boycott list.

Looking forward to seeing Michael Moore's new movie ("Capitalism: A Love Story"). He was on Leno last night and has a surprisingly good singing voice. And I sang right along with him ("The times, they are a'changin'").

Yoki, I'm making a salad and then some cheese on crisp bread and then a Honeycrisp apple (such a short, short season, but those apples are supreme!). Wanna come over? Hey, you too, Weed!

Thanks, Weed. Yoki, come on and sit down, make yourself at home. The munu today is pretty simple, just basic cold cuts and what-not. In addition to Weed's alfredo we've got two kinds of sliced tomatoes, first the humongous Goliaths from my garden, sliced a half-inch thick, to be drizzled with Russian dressing and sea salt. Then there's smaller, thinner-sliced early Girls to put on sandwiches such as BLTs. The lettuce is a tangy one from our garden, too, just picked this morning. Me, I'm having a ham-and-swiss (Alpine Lace, on sale at Safeway, $2.99 for 8-0z pre-packaged) on club rye, but there's other breads and rolls.

For desert today there are Sweetzels brand ginger snaps. The WaWa stores in my area are featuring a Halloween-type display of candies and cookies featuring these 7-oz. boxes of Sweetzel g-snaps, which are made in Skippack, Pa., up near my old hometown in the Philly burbs. $1.29 a box, excellent price. Great with apple cider which is just coming into season. Sweetzels makes good stuff: http://www.sweetzels.com/ And try their key lime pie recipe at http://www.sweetzels.com/recipes_keylime.php

Oh, and after lunch, to settle things down, we're all going to go stroll through the Corcoran and take a look at the John Singer Sargent maritime exhibition, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/15/AR2009091503501.html?hpid=features1&hpv=national

Particle Physics
by Julie Kane
They say two photons fired through a slit
stay paired together to the end of time;
if one is polarized to change its spin,
the other does a U-turn on a dime,
although they fly apart at speeds of light
and never cross each other's paths again,
like us, a couple in the seventies,
divorced for almost thirty years since then.
Tonight a Red Sox batter homered twice
to beat the Yankees in their playoff match,
and, sure as I was born in Boston, when
that second ball deflected off the bat,
I knew your thoughts were flying back to me,
though your location was a mystery.

seems to me it is all very sad, in the end. certainly it makes me sad and i wish i could hide from the reality of white racism the way i can effectively hide from rush and his ilk.

unfortunately there is racism on both sides. but good people know that the bridges that divide us can be crossed. at times the whole process gets a little ugly, and this is one of those times, i think. there are going to be some fights, but as i mentioned the other day, i think there are some things worth fighting about.

i am reminded of william saroyan's play, the time of your life, in which he urged his audience to live fully, love deeply, enjoy life, and fight when the fight comes to you.

i am convinced that the kind of white racism being fomented in the country right now is a direct descendant of slavery and all its evils. i am also reminded these days, of what i read in the preface to JFK's book, profiles in courage, when i was only in the eighth grade. a constituent had berated JFK for a matter he took to be a bedrock value and he invited her to "take two running jumps and go to hell". i feel the same way about rush, his spawn, and all their dim-witted, racist followers. if that leads to conflict, bring it.

I think it would be fitting to let Malvo witness the execution, so he can bid a fond farewell to his old partner. Of course, maybe all of us who lived through it should be able to witness it. In these times of tight budgetary constraints, I'll bet the state of Virginia could sell a lot of tickets if they moved the Muhammad execution to a stadium. Heck, for a piece of the action, I'll bet D.C. would rent them RFK Stadium pretty cheap.

Melancholy indeed. This loss of civility is disheartening. I think Andrew Sullivan had it right. And Vintage Lady, the Republican press conference about kids with disabilities was more made-up lies:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/15/republicans-warn-of-rationing-for-disabled-children/

I live in a town that seems to have been all white, with blacks exiled to an area on the other side of the airport, lacking paved roads or much of anything else.

Years ago, I lived in a town with a somewhat similar history, except it was people of hispanic ancestry who had been excluded. When I left, my successor in my job was an old-family hispanic from Taos.

Before that, a state university with remarkably few black students, something that evidently took a long time and much effort to remedy (the university's celebrated physics instructor was, however, Jamaican). The neighboring state of Delaware was making a little progress toward integration, though buying a house in a white neighborhood was still seemingly impossible.

I'm up to 246 on the Dan Brown wait list. Only about half the people have picked up their reserve copy so far.

Posted by: yellojkt | September 16, 2009 10:40 AM

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Yello, as of yesterday afternoon there was no waiting and not even a line for The Lost Symbol at the Kroger in Wheeling, WV. And why not enjoy a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup and a bottle of wine while you're there? http://twitpic.com/hubyy

The whole Joe Wilson uproar has already been worked to death, but I did like the D.C. delegate's take on it (quoted by Dana Milbank is his column today):
- - -
Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D.C.), on her way to the same meeting, took a rather different view. "If it looks like we're trying to humiliate the guy, it plays straight into their hands," she said. "I think he should man up, but I'm not sure we should push him to do it."

byoolin, I think I just sprained something trying to figure out which white wine pairs well with a Reese's Peanut butter Cup and Dan Brown. How about a peaneau egregio, say, the 1956 Thunderbird estate-bottled L'eau de Swill? It has notes of turpentine, brussel sprouts and lime (not the fruit, the other kind of lime), and a long finish rather like a plank from an Amish sawmil.

I think a good deal of the attractiveness factor about Garafolo is her frankness and straight-forwardness. She looks you in the eye, is honest, isn't "flirty" and "girlie" in any false kind of way. No artifice, no mind games. That can be very appealing and refreshing when compared to a woman who is flirty, bats her eye lashes, plays games, and all that. It's not quite the same as "high maintenance" against "low maintenance," because I suspect Garafolo is fairly high maintenance herself, in a different sort of way.

The comment that "not all republicans are racist, but most racist are republicans" si somewhat simplistic. I have heard masked racism from many a democrat. For example, I was once asked by an avowed liberal democrat my position on abortion. I thruthfully stated that it is an issue that doesn't effect me (I am a male), and never will. And that further, I have faith that my daughters are smart enought to know that "choice" is something that occurs before "the act," not after. After that "the act" we live with consequences, not choices. I explained that I beleive it is a personal choice, but would not lose sleep if the Roe decision was overturned either. My relative angrily told me that I am lacking a concscience because, they said, minorty women would be the group punished by overturned abortion. To me, the insuation that minority women are unable to control their urges or understand consequences of their actions was one of the most racist things I have ever heard. However, because such though comes from the left, it is charitable, rather than racist. The undercurrent flowing from a lot of democratic thought insinuates that racial minorities cannot be successful and happy unless they receive help from the Government (be it affirmative action, welfare programs, etc.), or can have access to abortion, is inherently racist.Is it not? In short, there is plenty of racism to go around. If the democrats that have inserted race into the current national dissent want to uncover all racism, they may want to start by looking in a mirror.

hsroth, I do tend to agree there's often an unconscious elitist racism.

But what if minority women were proven to be disproportionately affected by rape, whether statutory or otherwise, due to having to live in areas with poorer law enforcement?

Furthermore, what if they are disproportionately likely to not get adequate sexual health education or counselling due to policies or economical issues affecting their schools and their access to health services, such as birth control, adoption counselling, etc?

THEN where does your argument that "minority women can't control impulses or understand the consequences of their decisions" come into it at all?

That said, when I read your comment I thought just like you-- that the injustice of overturning roe vs wade should not be argued on the basis of race at all.

It should be argued on the basis of equal access to alternatives; restricting choice for those who already have little choice is not freedom nor child protection at all.

It merely increases the risk of infanticide or child neglect instead of abortion.

The thing about all the policies you mention is that they are as accessible to the majority as well as the minority.

In fact, white women have benefitted far more from affirmative action than minorities have.

So... it's not as simple-cut as race, but when we discuss minorities and race as a factor, what we are discussing is sociology.

That our society is more complex and that people have to live with factors-- cultural, economical, neighborhood, and educational, that we may not share.

It is arrogant to make policies without doing the research on how it will impact millions of America who don't have lobbyists to fight for them...

Or worse, use rhetoric that delibrately targets a section of our great society as the scapegoat of all of our ills. That's the approach that got Nazis to come to power, and we should guard against it instead of condoning it.

I have a few minutes of free time before I have to jump back on the work Merry-go-Round (Watch me dislocate a shoulder getting back on, it's moving fast enough to qualify as a centrifuge. I imagine the Iranian government is looking pretty closely at it for enriching uranium - talk about hiding in plain sight. But I digress).

I cannot speak for anyone else but myself, but I do know that one's relative viewpoint regarding the processing of any information - words, pictures, actions, etc. - defines the individual interpretation of that information and/or any intent or motivation behind it. Sometimes, I think I get it right. Other times, I am desperately, completely and utterly wrong.

Are some folks pandering to race when it comes to undermining the President? [I would add here that it seems there's always some degree of oppostion to any party or person in power. I believe that some folks will resort to anything in the pursuit of support, no matter how objectionable I may find it personally. I also believe that with regards to our President, it's more difficult to discern motivations for criticism and opposition, be they honest disagreement, partisanship, or racism. Not impossible, as there seems to be plenty of all of it.

Logically, there is almost certainly the reverse as well.

Would - should? - a politician discount support simply because some people like the color of her/his skin? Or gender?

Apologies, I'm thinking out loud here.

And here I go - OW! [bc grabs a passing bar on the Worky-go-Round with one arm, flies completely off the ground, trailing a plume of spreadsheets and Gantt charts, and tries to grab the brass ring as he goes by]

hsroth1, I'd say you were accused of racism or bigotry. There was a lot unsaid in the accusation. Such that in reality, it is poor women who have the most to lose in that situation, and that demographically many poor women are of another ethnicity than you and therefore, as I read it, the person thought you might be more insulated, and CARE LESS because of racism or bigotry. Whether or not that is the case, I don't see the "liberal" as being bigoted. Rude to accuse you of racism, yes, possibly.

Here's the point- "Since 1999, health insurance premiums for families rose 131%, the report found, far more than the general rate of inflation, which increased 28% over the same period. Overall, health care in the United States is expected to cost $2.6 trillion this year, or 17% of the nation's economy, according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office."

As far as abortion, if the question was should abortion be outlawed in the case of rape, incest, health risk to the mother, my answer would have been an unequivocal NO. As for minorities having less access to education, family planning resources, etc., I don't know. However, rich and poor adults in this country are aware of were babies come from. Sex education has been a staple in our schools for the last 40 years, and the illigitacy rate has grown by over 150% in some communities since the 60s. Accordingly, sex education cannot be seen as preventing unwanted preganacies. Anyway, I understand the programs I mentioned benefit more than minorities, but when you protest the need for them, I have noticed a tendency for those that support them to "play the race card" I personally beleive that racism will fade when we view the world, and politics, through race -neutral eyes. I, asa republican, do that and believe we are all equal and capable, and certainly do not base my views based on the skin color of others.

I agree with you. But here's the thing-- "Anyway, I understand the programs I mentioned benefit more than minorities, but when you protest the need for them, I have noticed a tendency for those that support them to "play the race card""

When I protest the need for them? Did I? Aren't you now accusing me of being racist by playing the race card?

See how this can distort any open discussion right away?

As for the illegitimacy, this is a red herring.

I can't say anything about the sociological factors, but I doubt sex education alone is the leading cause; According to a study I read, Europeans have more sex education focused on birth control and other issues, and they actually have a later age of first intercourse than Americans.

Of course, some countries, such as France, have a staggeringly high rate of out-of-wedlock births, but this is due to various factors, such as that in France, marriage is much more strictly defined legally and much less appealling as a consequence.

This is the problem of causal correlation thinking.

By that reasoning alone, I could "prove" that out-of-wedlock births are correlated to higher MPG because both have increased in the last 40 years, and then decry Cash for Clunkers as a plot to increase the number of bast*rds born in America.

I respect your clear ability to think sincerely about the issues.

I agree that people can make misstatements about race in arguing for something, and others can unfairly accuse their opponents of racism.

Does that mean every time a politican talks about issues that affect minorities more than whites, he is automatically playing the race card, and that his points should be dismissed as a consequence of narrow thinking?

Isn't that characterization as unfair as labelling other people as bigots?

1. I am related to quite a few bigots. My relatives have no problem frankly and rudely expressing their racial hangups to anyone they meet. It surprises me that with somewhere between 20,000 and 2 million protesters, few (if any) reporters stepped away with an old fashioned hateful comment to plaster in an opening paragraph.

2. These are overwhelmingly white protests and they are targeting, very specifically, the person of our black president. If it were just him or just his policy, wouldn't we expect to see more persons of color?

I would like to start a campaign to remove the term illegitimacy from common use, add out of wedlock as well. The idea that two people must be married in order to have childen just seems old.

Providing teenages with sexual education is meaningless without cheap, and available access to birth control. I might note abstinence only is not in any way shape or form an effective method of providing sexual education, nor will it decrease teen pregnancies.

Howdy. Dropping in briefly. I think Section506 asks a legitimate question. More broadly, one difficulty with the whole racism question is that it is intensely personal. We all bring our own experiences, personal and family stories and anecdotes of friends or things observed. In addition, it is a highly emotionally charged topic. I think it is a good thing that the accusation of racism is a very serious one, and one which even bigoted people wish to avoid. I think this shows some progress.

I also think anyone who suggests that racism plays no part in the opposition to Obama is living in a dream world. Like many others here, I think the truth lies somewhere in between. It is just very difficult to discuss objectively.

Speaking of living in a dream world, who says sex ed is in every public school? Maybe where y'all live. A student could easily go through whatever passes for "sex education" here, assuming it is offered at all, and learn nothing about safe sex, preventing pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, or anything else which would be useful in making good choices or accepting consequences. Assuming you think teenagers would naturally do either (good choices and reasoning to consequences, that is) without explicit adult direction and support. It's a big country, folks, and nothing is standardized.

The signs that people carried at the protests speak for themselves. Some are quite openly racist, if you ask me, others are somewhat ironic. But I agree, I would like to see more reporters ask these folks what their evidence is, or even to define their fears, or to define socialism. Too many of these wild statements are left hanging out there, as if they're legitimate.

But, I've also known a lot more subtle racists who don't display it openly, as they don't HATE people of X ethnicity, they just don't know them nor do they quite trust them on the whole.

This is the kind of racism that is hard to eradicate and leads to unequal employment and promotion opportunities, even though nobody ever said anything "bad."

We can ask Joel about that, but I'm guessing he's not really going to use quotes from anybody who uses offensive language, especially when there are others who would give politer quotes. No need to play the "racist card."

As to the abortion argument being discussed (so to speak) on this blog, nowhere is the issue that if abortion is no longer legal women who want abortions WILL get them the way women have been doing for centuries. They will go to back alley butchers and risk their lives to have an abortion. Women of means will continue to do what they've always done -- go to the hospital for a D&C. It was done all the time when I was growing up and it will continue. And as for women who do end up losing their lives from back alley abortions, those who profess to be "pro-life" will argue that "they deserved it" -- that is, they are "not worthy" to live (which brings up back to the Calvinist discussion of an earlier Kit).

All of this is about control. That's all. The so-called "urges" apparently directed only to women (*wondering about that*) have nothing to do with it. Women are charged with being responsible for birth control (I don't know -- maybe men would break a fingernail if he took any responsibility for birth control?) and are charged with the dreaded "consequences". I remember something that Gloria Steinem once said: "If men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament."

The general racism in the Obama election and his administration has absolutely affected the racial climate in the U.S.. The Martin Luther King Jr. dream of a man being judged by the content of his character, rather than the color of his skin, was thrown under the bus at the first chance of having a black man as president. It's a sad time in America.
I don't agree to a great degree with either Drudge or Limbaugh, but I do see a level of truth to it.

hsroth, you are basically wrong for three main reasons. Yes, while it may be true that "there is plenty of racism (PoR) to go around" and that "both sides do it," (BSDI) those responses:

First, tend to trivialize the issue. BSDI tends to slide into something like "Everybody does it" and neither is a satisfactory argument.

Second, BSDI, while it may be true to some minimal extent, tends to make both sides *equal* in their racism, and yello's original point (and many other's point), is that it is NOT true that both sides do it equally, nor anything close to equally.

Third, this approach ignores the "quality of the racism" issue. Far right-wing racism, virulent "up-front" racism, often results in acts of violence, ranging from KKK activity and cross-burnings, to go all the way out to the historical period of half a century or more of lynchings, to say nothing of the more modern assassinations of King, Evers, Violet Liuzzo, Goodman/Chaney/Schwerner, et al.; the list goes on. It is *this* kind of racism that you attempt to *balance* against the "unconscious" racism that some otherwise well-meaning Democrats may hold. No unconsciously racist Democrat who wouldn't rent an apartment to a black family ever planted a bomb in a church basement and killed four little girls, so please do not attempt to write off all kinds of racism as being somehow "the same" or "both sides do it." All may be reprehensible, but some racism is prima facie much, much worse than other kinds of racism.

Also, bringing abortion and sexism into the discussion really muddies the waters way beyond what anyone can rationally handle and discuss. Both these things are hard enough to deal with separately, let alone making a stew out of them.

Also, I am aware of no cases of reverse-racist black affirmative action Harvard law school students forming a secret society, donning cloaks and hoods, and burning a copy of the Constitution on the lawn of a white auto body welder who just moved into the neighborhood. If such a thing ever happened, I suppose the liberal commie pinko MSM probably covered it up.

"These are overwhelmingly white protests and they are targeting, very specifically, the person of our black president. If it were just him or just his policy, wouldn't we expect to see more persons of color?"

Actually, based on the 97% rate at which black voters supported Obama, I'm not sure that statement is true, nor is (necessarily) the implication that the protesters are motivated by racism--although I'm sure that there are some who are.

Oh come off it, Joel. We see luminaries on the left "reading the minds of distant strangers" ALL THE TIME to determine that pretty straightforward anti-tax, anti-big government messages are somehow "racist."

You need examples? Let's try Maureen Dowd, Jimmy Carter, the genius at the post who wrote that really long thesis about the Obama Joker posters being racist, Howard Kurtz yesterday, the list never ends.

Everyone makes some good points. Awal, you mention the black voting trends, which I also think is an indicator of how deep racial tensions still lie.

Maybe what we mean by racism is also very important. What my point about the white protesters focusing on the person of the black president was trying to get across is that we could use race as a very strong predictor of whether someone was not a protester (person of color? not likely!). So there is a racial element that is confirmed. But is there also a racial motive?

That's a good point, too. Does Joel read the comments? I'm clearly new around here. I'd be curious what he noted of the racial makeup of the crowds. Particularly Hispanic turnout (I know, I know, ethnicity, but still).

You are right, of course, Wilbrod about there being other non-black minorities who should be represented. I never looked closely at a crowd picture, so I don't know if they were or not. I was just approaching it as a math problem.

Given the ethnic breakdown of the US and the rates at which various ethnic groups reported voting for President Obama, one wouldn't expect very many non-whites at the protest--assuming one also made the assumption that a vote for Obama meant someone was less likely to protest. And from a practical matter, if blacks were so under-represented versus their percentage of the population at large, it might be difficult to estimate quickly levels of minority participation using only a visual scan of the crowd.

Wilbrod, great point. And what these posters are missing is that crying crocodile tears when getting called on their racial motivations doesn't help losing more non-white support. If they are the last to see the appearance of their actions and protestations, so be it.

What's more illuminating is that, to this point, the Republican party is in bed with this behavior.

Finally, what these folks fear most, if you take them on their word is that they are becoming a minority in their beliefs, themselves.

Wilbrod, these folks are calling Obama a socialist, while everything points to the fact that he is a moderate. The people willing to solve our nation's ills with federal programs are out there and are to the left of Obama--and we aren't talking about Bill Ayers or ACORN. We are talking about nearly 30% of the population of the USA.

We, in fact, outnumber the radical right (again, I apologize to the right for this, but it seems, until you throw them out, then you got them). The country is changing. It is getting less tolerant of the ultra-rich taking advantage of Washington and it has caused lots of Astroturfing and Astroturf is designed to get certain people fired up to serve its purposes.

I compare two gatherings... (1) Obama's victory party after the election

So they are...faux fish made from faux gelatinous product? Is the Food and Drug Administration aware that we have living creatures dwelling among the nation's food supply that are made out of falsely described materials and masquerading under the seemingly benign "cover" of aquatic piscatoral marine life?

O Depth, where is thy sting? Actually, that's probably not a good question to ask of a multi-polyped multi-life form bearing tentacles of little poison sacs.

And hey, isn't it sexist to say these beasties are "man-eating"? Don't they ever eat women? Children? Shouldn't they be "human-eating" jellyfish? "Persons-of-indiscriminate-age-and-gender-eating" jellyfish?

*sigh* I don't suppose they will ever have a TV show called "So You Think You Can Copy Edit?" where ace curmudgeonly copy editors wearing green eyeshades get to copy edit with cute perky celebrities like Shawn Johnson, do you? 'Cuz I'd be really interested in watching a show like that.

Section 506 writes: "Does Joel read the comments? I'm clearly new around here. I'd be curious what he noted of the racial makeup of the crowds. Particularly Hispanic turnout (I know, I know, ethnicity, but still)."

Assuming you're talking about the rally Saturday: I looked for a long time before I saw a black participant. It was very close to all-white. Speculating here: It could be that the whole "tea party," tricorner hat, fife-and-drum, return-to-1776 schtick doesn't play well with people who enslaved at that particular point in history.

As for reading the comments, of course I do -- but quickly, generally. I don't pretend to be in charge around here -- my only credential for participation is that I control the comment-zapper. And I know what people call me ("He Who Must Be Ignored").

I always watch Keith and Rachel in the morning on the net. That way, I can watch bits and pieces as I do other things.

I have to ask, how the hell did Al Franken get into the Senate? Something must have happened...

In actuality, I think we followed, with Air America, the largest movement to the left in a long time. The network, itself, is a mess, but during its heyday, it proved to be a much more interesting base for business. I think that it paved the way for many successes elsewhere and also started a new generation of activists.

You know, I no longer can listen to radio and try to work unless it's music. Many of those folks who make up that world are still going on with Sirius and other platforms like Jones. Clearly, the discussions are way more interetsing than the rants of Rush and often the guests would be those willing to have a long thoughtful discussion. So not FOX.

I was at the U2 concert in Chicago the same day as the teabagger rally. The concert was also about 80,000 people and my wife (Vietnamese but can pass for Chinese) was the most ethnic person we saw the whole time.

We did not see any Black people except for a taped message from Desmond Tutu talking during an encore break about how much Bono's charity work has improved the lives of Africans.

Despite the lilywhite demographics, I doubt the teabagger and U2 fan base overlap any more than chance.

To be serious, I have no doubt that between ticket prices, U2's musical style, their label's promotional strategies, and the location of the venue, we could whip up a very good structural argument for the racial component to the crowd you observed.

This is what people don't get about race today: the effect of nearly four centuries of American discrimination is thick all around us, even in the absence of overt bigotry. It's like the joke about the fish.

Section506, if you are suggesting that blacks are more likely to vote for a Democrat rather than a Republican than your average Hispanic, I would agree.

The use of conservative may not be a fair term to apply to that argument.

I do think that, at its core, the one tenuous concept that held the 9/12 demonstrator's positions together was the fact that Obama is not 'their' vision of a President. Why those individual felt that way certainly ran the gamut.

We, as a people have developed a fairly keen awareness of right and wrong. If it were just the blacks reacting, one could make an argument that they are "just sensitive, but, the reaction has come from everywhere.

Most importantly, the Democrats also experienced a bit of the race card play by the Clintons during the primary. With Bill and Hillary dancing on that razor, Hillary went from, in my book, underdog to out. Everyone turned on that, especially the unions where she had some remaining strong support.

Look what happened the Democrats basically tossed Hillary under the bus. They did what the Republicans can't seem to do. I am suggesting that they are playing with fire, here.

The real United States of America saw what Obama did, he appointed and got approved Hillary Clinton to one of the most important posts in his cabinet and did it with much grace. That's the take away.

It is quite clear who the leader is who represents the best of our people's interests.

Section506, I wouldn't expect you to agree with me, but when a country is in a deep deep recession that is almost a depression, but we can't use that word and the real unemployment rate is challenging 17%, the government has to spend money. There is no choice. Being conservative fiscally right now is more unwise than spending frivolously in good times.

Believe me, we have to expand our economy ASAP. This is no time for the right to find "their religion" on this. Of course, the Republicans "could have" participated. The door has been so wide open for them to do SOMETHING that the left had to send a huge letter to the President to remind him of his support base.

In America, if you aren't willing to serve the nation as a minority party, then you don't deserve the right to lead it. When I say this, I don't mean serving the party by just saying NO. That's not how real government works.

yellojkt, I'm eagerly awaiting your detailed review of the U2 event. I would concur with your assessment of the diversity (or lack thereof) of the crowd. Fairly typical for most rock concerts I go to, actually.

A more formal howdy to Section405 and awal. You've probably already noticed the comments' tendency to wander. Welcome to the Boodle (the comment section, as opposed to the Kit, which is what Joel actually wrote). The marine discursion etc are par for the course, if not at times the whole menu.

I believe that Triploid Trout is still available as a boodle handle. I'm tempted. Saskatchewan Triploid Trout's even better but I couldn't possibly type that without error 19 times out of 20 with a 3% margin of error.

Joel Ache? Methinks the last name part is phonetic, for the letter H. So whoever he is, his name is probably Joel H. something. Either his middle initial, or initial of his last name.

Or it could mean, like, Joel H. E.

Or Joe Lache, i.e., Joe Milk.

Bob, I saw that clip a few days ago. Very tragic. She was so young.

We had dinner in a *real* Jamaican restaurant tonight. First time I ever had Jamaican food. My wife got the jerk chicken, which was *real* jerk chicken, unlike the lame, mild wussy chicken I made the other week. Regarding *real* jerk chicken: O.M.G. This was like, oh, napalm mcnuggets. Chicken flambe where you just eat the flambe and blow out the chicken. I had the brown stew chicken, which was unspicy and okay. But I note the Jamaicans tend to be pretty casual about leaving random pieces of large bone in their stew.

Once I wrote a piece for a 'zine and signed it by what I thought was the humorous pen name "Jimmy Fingers." The editor told me the real "Jimmy Fingers" contacted her and asked that I not do that again. I complied.

Mudge, on a Jamaican holiday a long time ago we had a real Jamaican meal one night, jerk chicken and some sort of roast pig. I really enjoyed it but they are also quite casual about leaving some of the skin on the pork, after more than a few Red Stripe and Rum punches seeing fur (or whatever pigs have) on my meal was a little unsettling.

Flavio, Flavio, Flavio,... What were you thinking? Briatore is to F2 and F3 what Bernie E, is to F1. This old mafia has to go. Let's go kiddie hit that wall and everything will be fine.
To think that Flavio started a young promising German driver, Shoe-something, back with Benetton in the days.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090916/ap_on_sp_au_ra_ne/car_f1_renault_probe

BTW yoki and Mudge I tried to confirm our version of Il faut qu'il vienne le temps with Mr. Aufray many times, using increasingly devious ways. The old geezer never answered. Every 80 year-old is allowed a few quirks, I guess.

" THE SIAM CAVEAT: Conjoined (a.k.a. Siamese) twins will only count as one roster entry. You can play conjoined twins but, as their deaths are so often near-simultaneous, you'll only get credit for a single death. "

Mad Max's bill is being ripped apart on Olbermann's show tonite. Just watching online. 13% of your paycheck may be drawn right out of your paycheck to pay for assigned coverage. There are allowances to increase the amount charged for "older Americans" to 5 times the younger rate.

THere is a high risk pool that one could qualify for, but basically, the person would have to be without insurance for 6 months before they qualify.

Wendell Potter--former head of PR for CIGNA--was absolutely ripping this bill as a total give away to the insurance companies.

s_d - personally, I do not think much of Flavio B. I find his behavior towards the women in his life - the mothers of his children, for goodness' sake - completely unfathomable and indefensible.

Having said that, he didn't find Schumacher - Norbert Haug and Willi Weber did (putting him in German F3 and the Sauber/Mercedes 'Junior' sportscar team), and then Eddie Jordan put him in the very sweet and pretty but underpowered little Jordan 191 F1 car at Spa in '91 (to replace the jailed Bertrand Gachot - tax evasion, IIRC), where Schu promptly qualified it towards the front (I want to say 3rd or 7th), but broke the clutch at the start.

Flavio was looking for someone to replace used the Benetton money to buy Schumi out from Jordan (Eddie always has a price), looking for someone faster and younger than super-sub Roberto Moreno to partner Nelson Piquet Sr.

Didn't know about Mary until this minute, reading Yoki's post. Saw Peter and Paul at Wolf Trap just a few weeks ago.

Dammit. Dammit dammit dammit.

For several months I've been working on a trilogy of poems, one of them about Mary. Now I'm angry at myself I haven't been able to finish it.

Well, screw it. John Denver will have to do it, instead. So:

For Mary Travers, 1936-2009

All my bags are packed
I'm ready to go
I'm standin' here outside your door
I hate to wake you up to say goodbye
But the dawn is breakin'
It's early morn
The taxi's waitin'
He's blowin' his horn
Already I'm so lonesome
I could die

So kiss me and smile for me
Tell me that you'll wait for me
Hold me like you'll never let me go
'cause I'm leavin' on a jet plane
Don't know when I'll be back again
Oh babe, I hate to go.

Now the time has come to leave you
One more time
Let me kiss you
Then close your eyes
I'll be on my way
Dream about the days to come
When I won't have to leave alone
About the times, I won't have to say

Oh, kiss me and smile for me
Tell me that you'll wait for me
Hold me like you'll never let me go
'cause I'm leavin' on a jet plane
Don't know when I'll be back again
Oh babe, I hate to go

But, I'm leavin' on a jet plane
Don't know when I'll be back again
Oh babe, I hate to go

I'm a sucker for goat at Jamaican places. There used to be (and it may still be there) a great one in Rockville right on 355. There was one in Silver Springs that was okay, but more of a take-out joint.

And I am not a bones guy, so I avoid the jerk chicken unless it is whole pieces.

Voting in Oregon seemed as honest as anywhere, when I lived there. The mail-in approach is opposite the system where I now live, in Florida, where you are warned that it's a FELONY to try to vote in the wrong precinct. So far, however, you don't have to notarize your absentee ballot. I have no idea how many people vote in both New Jersey and Florida.

'morning all. Well bc, I never cared much for Piquet Sr. and his poopooing of fellow Brazilian Ayrton S. Compare that to the Massa-Barrichello relationship.
Junior I don't know but this little incident will not look good on his résumé. Flavio is as much a cancer in F2 and F3 as Ernie is in F1. Those guys have to go.

Thanks for the links, seasea, I'll be listening to YouTube all morning for the good old music.

Okay, back to basics. Ham biscuits and appropriate beverages on the ready room table, also a bowl of mixed fruit.

I hope everyone has a pleasant day. I promised the Elderdottir I'd go over to her condo this morning and help her clean, now that she and her dad and Mr. T have finished installing new flooring in her kitchen. The '60's faux brick is gone, thank heaveans, but it's amazing the mess that was made, getting rid of it.

Do kids nowadays sit down and sing? I mean those who aren't in bands...I remember evenings we would just have a bunch in the house and amuse ourselves by singing folksongs. That's where I learned Blowing in the Wind, Puff The Magic Dragon, etc. We also loved the songs from musicals - Sound of Music, Oklahoma, South Pacific, You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown. And those are the ones I remember...I was a Simon and Garfunkel fan and loved to sing their songs. Jeez, I'm dating myself.

Good morning boodle! Still feel like carp, but I'm upright and have whittled the schedule down to just a few things that absolutely must be done today. Everything else will be pushed off until I feel better, or they are overcome be events.

Slyness, great question. I am actually interested in the absolute number of kids who are now learning to sing and play instruments in this area. With the demise of in-school programs, I can walk to 5 or 6 large music studios plus a county supported theater (make that two) which either focus completely on kids or have programs for kids.

Teaching is a primary source of income for many of my musician friends who just can't get gigs right now. It is a perfect "third" job for performing musicians.

Oh course, teachers have long ago learned that you teach music that the kids want to play, so, beyond technique, most musicians have to keep up.

Eldest high school has quite a music program, with a band, orchestra, jazz band, choir, chorale etc. She chose to join the choir, perhaps enticed by the upcoming trip to Italy. She wanted to learn more about music and saw this as a good opportunity.

To this day I can sing every song in perfect synchronization with all four Simon & Garfunkle albums (not counting the Wednesday Morning opre-album). I can even sing them in the same sequence they appeared on the albums. (That I am a god-awful singer is irrelvant.) I was a senior in college and assistant editor of the college newspaper when "Bookends" came out, and I pulled rank and got the album when the newspaper acquired a review copy. I wrote the review (a rave) for it. And for years afterward, my best friend and I would have our ritual Saturday-night-long-after-midnight S&G sing-alongs as our wives/girlfriends passed out or went to bed. Our singing was augmented by both liquid and herbal substances, if I recollect (which I pretty much certainly do not). I think "For Emily Wherever I may Find Her" may be their finest, although that's a tough one.

I think someday perhaps I shall write a learned monograph (as Sherlock Holmes used to say) on the subject of S&G's "Scarborough Fair/Canticle," and Dylan's "Girl From the North Country," which use basically the same lyric, take a sojourn through "Eileen Aroon" (Dyland and others, q.v. and thanks to CqP on that one), and back to its source in The Elfin Knight, circa the mid 1600's. The Wiki write-up on these questions is pretty awful and very incomplete.

Morning everyone. Yeah, hand on heart for Mary Travers. When I marched on Washington ages ago to commemorate the 20th (maybe?) anniversary of Martin Luther King's "I Have A Dream" speech, I was in the very close (and I mean *very close*) vicinity of Peter, Paul, Mary and Pete Seger. Such a time!

Hand also on heart for Henry Gibson -- I adored him, not only for Laugh-In, but for Boston Legal.

In Chicago on the street corner just outside our hotel a group of teenagers were milling around and started spontaneously harmonizing. For a minute I thought I was in the middle of a guerrilla film shoot for Glee. They were probably just a school chorus group in town for something.

On music department trips the chorus kids were always the most drama. They were all divas in training. Particularly some of the guys.

Eileen Aroon. Mudge, my family's anthem. The song comes from the mountains of Wexford County (considered a "hillybilly" outpost, with tons of jokes about these mountain folk.) My dad sang it -- imperfectly but with gusto as he cannot carry a tune in a bucket but does not know this -- all my growing up.

This was his favorite verse:

Castles are sacked in war
Chieftains are scattered far
Truth is a fix-ed star
Eileen Aroon

Here is the Minnesota boy himself singing this very old song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V_lZAwmoqU&feature=related

#1 and #2 and their friends sing and play all the time, just not folk songs with an acoustic guitar or two and a camp fire. Piano, electric guitar, flute, clarinet, saxophones of varying voices, drums, bass. Good stuff.

They were the seats I used to sneak to at RFK, during the 2005 Nats season. I was just out of college and unemployed, but thrilled to have a team. People in Boswell's chat always proudly used their season ticket handle -- Section 201, Row F -- so I signed mine Section 506 (After moving). When the new stadium opened, I became Section 506 (Before moving) and then when the post made us register it became just Section506.

Mudge, now I know fer sure that we are soulmates. For Emily, Wherever I May Find Her was/is my absolute favorite S&G song EVER.

Good to know that our kids are singing. I loved choir myself, also rang handbells at church and took piano lessons. The Elderdottir has a lovely singing voice but isn't using it right now. The Geekdottir decided music wasn't her thing and refuses to sing.

I love both Simon and Garfunkle and Paul Simon alone. His solo stuff regularly makes my sing-along traveling mix tapes. Here is one of my favorites:

Couple in the next room, bound to win a prize.
They've been going at it all night long.
I'm trying to get some sleep, but these
Lincoln Duncan is my name and here's my song, here's my song.

Then there is Kodachrome and Me and Julio Down By The Schoolyard (I especially like the part about the radical priest come to get us released (and just what did the mamma saw?). I did have to explain to my brother-in-law that Simon and Garfunkel was Paul Simon's original group.

This is a bit off the conversation, but you got me thinking about kids singing. The most amazing sub-text here is about siblings singing together. There is some sort of genetic magic in those voices.

I married into a family of singers. Hearing them sing together was a very special gift.

I have for dozens of years been a big fan of one family from Ireland. I think CqP knows them, but may not know that there are siblings there--The Bothy Band. The Bothys were led by Tríona Ní Dhomhnaill and Micheál Ó Domhnail--brother and sister.

Before the Bothy Band, they along with their also famous sister Maighréad Ní Dhomhnaill and a friend named Daithí Sproule formed a band called Skara Brae.
(cont.)

Micheál is now gone, but before he passed, they reunited Skara Brae and there is a great video (headphone quality) of their performance and their remembrances. Micheál and Triona also were in the band Nightnoise, if you follow Windom Hill type music.

Here are the youtube links, if you are interested in hearing those amazing harmonies. Of course, they are not shabby musicians or singers at all.

Part I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxd20eJZ7fc
Part II:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GheU2v3hWlw

CqP and I are having a great e-mail conversation about some Irish stuff, but it has led me to this great clip of Peter, Paul and Mary singing "The Rising of the moon." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAhcrUorNg0 Watch this woman's intensity at the end of the song. This was Mary Travers at her valkyrie finest.

Frosti -- I think I may have caught what you had (tummy stuff). So far, so good, but I think I'm gonna go lay down and maybe try some ginger tea to settle things down. This *never* happens to me (i.e., decades upon decades go by), so I'm a wee bit disconcerted. Ah, well.

Did anyone hear about McDonell (is that his name?) running for governor in Virginia dropping the F-bomb yesterday? Maybe he learned that word while preparing his thesis. . . .

While I have no intention of voting for Bob McDonnell, I'd give the guy a pass on his slip of the lip in a radio interview. If you listened to the broadcast you'd know that it was just a slip and not an O'Reilly moment. I think that the guy's unacceptable for his views, I think he's trying to downplay his fundamentalist agenda, but I don't think he's a closet potty mouth.

I think I have only a few degrees of separation from Natalie, The Rankins and Ashley MacIsaac through my M-I-L, everyone knows everyone there, small isolated towns with an extremely strong sense of helping your neighbour.

DMD -- we have flowers and music and the boodle to connect us. Amazing. And, when I was growing up in the wild open places, I would wonder all the time where Montana ended and Alberta began. Love me my Canadians.

And, not to be grim about it, but THAT version of Ave Maria should be on the list of funerary ablutions.

Don't we have a file for that in the bunker? BC is to be launched into space ala Gene Roddenberry, Mudge is to be ground into a fine powder so that he can be scattered near Cobb Island in the Potomack....

Just watched the tail end of Obama's speech in College Park (woulda gone if I had knees, a good back and weren't feeling crummy) -- and DANG that guy gives a good rollicking speech! Holy you-know-what! I was yellin' (in my head around the headache) right along with them! Loved it!

Now, I'm gonna head for those saltines and the ginger tea. Gimme shelter, eh?

A good read (except for ftb) for those making postmortem plans is Mary Roach's "Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers" which discusses in at times excruciating detail what happens after you die and the uses that your remains may be put to- decomposition, organ donation, dissection, embalming and burial, cremation, forensic research, liquid reduction, and compost. Freeze drying and pulverizing costs a third of cremation and is more environmentally friendly and yields the same results, a baggie of powdered Mudge. At some date in the far far distant future, of course.

So I had a little time this morning and spent it reading The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Society. I didn't sob, Frosti, but I certainly had teary eyes at the end! I don't suppose I've read an epistolary novel since Lady Susan, and it was a treat. This one may last...

I've got to leave shortly to go help the Elderdottir clean, I have all these wonderful musical links to look forward to, when I get home.

I may have to look into the freeze drying and pulverizing, kguy. No sense in spending money on something that's going to decompose quickly anyway. I just don't want my body to stink.

I heard from my Oldest, who went to the President's Health Care rally at UMD today, even sent me a couple of txt messages. She's very energized at the moment.

CqP, you don't remember my funeral arrangement bit from years ago, posted to the Boodle? Launched into space - nope, not me (though I tend to be Lost there from time to time). Speaking of which, someone with a lot more of it than I can proabably search for it...

My next alternative is a translucent acrylic marker with embedded solar-powered electronics and capacitors for storing charge, running a program that will do a variety of interesting things starting about a decade after my interment.

I thought the Svedishh process involved air drying, soaking in brine then water followed by a cure in concentrated lye, somemore soaking in freshwater and finally concluded by good boiling in saltwater (outside because of the smell, of course).

Sorry, CqP, but I don't accept that "party line" nonsense you're ladling out. I happen to know that there are other, lesser, Dakotas that are not common knowledge among the slack-jawed cattle of ordinary folks. You can't pull the wool over my eyes. I'm not one of the sheeple who just accepts the things that the cartographic media tell us. Open your eyes, and smell the bison dung!

"I've thought a Viking funeral would be kinda cool, make a pyre on a boat, put my body on top of it [in a Barcalounger, perhaps] douse the whole thing in 112 octane CAM2 (racing gas has a very distinctive smell), and push the whole thing out to sea, let everybody shoot flaming arrows at it until it lights (my money is on my brother, who's been a bow hunter for 20+ [years], though I won't discount my [ex's] high degree of motivation). Knowing my family, they'll dress me in the Darth Vader outfit when they do it, which will be fine because a: I'm dead, what the hell am I gonna do about it anyway, and b: I get it. Play Joe Satriani's 'Flying in a Blue Dream' really loud as the whole thing burns to the waterline (preferably at sunset - I guess we'll have to do this on a western facing shoreline), serve plenty of good food and drink while everybody talks about a: what a d!ck I was, and b: the many stupid but amusing things I did."

I won't pine away for not having tried lutefisk but I suspect if I was hungry and it was done right I might like it. I expect somewhere in East Dakota it is actually tasty.

slyness, you brought up something I have pondered on for a long time; the loss of singing in this culture. Except for the karaoke fad, which I don't know much about. One friend had a wife from the PHillipines and she and her friends like to do karaoke and my buddy was always sort of embarassed by this but I sure don't see why. They split up anyway.

Back in the '70s once one of my friends was lamenting that people don't sing anymore. Another friend made fun of him; said "Hey, Doug, this isn't the Waltons" but I knew what he meant. I don't even remember when my family stopped singing Christmas carols but we did. And my sister used to have a boss who "made them" go over and sing Christmas carols at his place yearly, and she didn't like it, and I thought that was sad, too.

About the happiest moment of my life was when my friend's sister came to visit and they started singing duets like they used to as kids.

I'm routinely horrified at the deliberately bad singing that is done so often, as if to try to sing nicely is equal with being a showoff or egomaniac. It's equal to the Roseanne Barr national anthem travesty and it's ugly. Or a claim that comedy that isn't funny is therefore funny because it's, see, not funny.

I think all this, but I still have no real urge to go down to the karaoke club...

I heard a comedian lambasting his buddies who sing in the car but try to imitate the voice of the singer instead of just singing along. He's sort of old fashioned like my thinking.

Well, the ginger tea seems to have helped (although the first sip almost sent me running), and helped enough to let you all know that I have tasted - and more than once - Swedish lutfisk (w/o the "e" which is the Norwegian spelling of it). It is exceptionally bland, especially with the ubiquitous white sauce that's ladled on it. Some put freshly ground black pepper on top of that. I'd rather slather it with hot sauce.

Thanks for the updates, frosti. I'm still nursing the ginger tea. May try some crackers later, to see how that goes. Sorta a headache, but it seems to come and go. That I can go without food for a day or two isn't a problem, really. There's a bit of "extra" that I've been trying to lose over the past many years, so it isn't as if I were a skinny-minnie. Or, is that a skinnie-minny?

Too bad there aren't any good movies on TCM this afternoon (at least good to me). Ah, well. This malady (or quasi-malady) makes me feel glad to work at home.

Mudge -- perhaps a mini-triceratops (which was my *favorite* dinosaur when I was five or six) would be a one-and-a-half-ceratops. . . . .

The Water Quality guy was just here to investigate the 50 lbs. of mysterious yellow chemical substance (yeah, I know all substances are "chemical") that was dumped up on the property line. Just what we need, environmental atrocities right here in the neighborhood. Although the weird substance looked pretty benign, I told the guy I felt I had to call. This is not the first time people have dumped truly weird substances here, in addition to the things thrown here out of pure stupidity. In any case the Experts are On The Problem.

I am working on day 14 with no nicotine today. I was afraid to jinx it before. Unfortunately, unlike times past I did this, I did not develop psychic powers on day two, and also never really even felt like biting the head off a live chicken. I did not experience that rather pleasant stoned feeling cessation of nicotine has provided in the past. However I am enjoying the oxygen. Of all the gases, I think it is my favorite.

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My memory is getting fuzzy already. I woke up in Billings, Montana, so I know that's a real place. Then I drove a whole bunch. Stopped to get gas and eat. Drove some more. Drove around a National Park and saw some wild horses. I've pictures of those some place. Then I drove some more. I ate dinner in Bismark (there's some sort of big river there). Drove some more. Slept in Fargo.

Now the map tells me that most of that driving occurred in someplace called North Dakota, but it could have been this really gorgeous backdrop that just spun around while I was on a treadmill and someone fired raptor sized insects at my windshield.

South Dakota is real because I saw a corn palace and a drug store and a vandalized mountain. And it wouldn't make sense to have a South Dakota without a North Dakota any more than to have a West Virginia without an East Virginia.

So that is why I'm open to the idea that there really is a North Dakota. And if there is one, I really enjoyed the twenty hours or so I spent in it because it was really pretty. Or at least the parts I could see through the bug guts were.