Vegetarian is just an old Indian word for bad hunter. But seriously what is the stance on wild game with no preservatives in it? If preservatives are the reason you don't eat meat would you be willing to eat moose, bear, etc?

Vegetarian is just an old Indian word for bad hunter. But seriously what is the stance on wild game with no preservatives in it? If preservatives are the reason you don't eat meat would you be willing to eat moose, bear, etc?

It depends on who you ask.

Ask the ones who are against killing animals and it is all bad.

Ask the ones who do it for diet and you will get varying answers.

However, you can buy plenty of no hormone, no antibiotics, no preservatives meat in the grocery store.

Ya that's the usual answers. I'm with you on life with out bacon though.

No kidding, I feel sorry for all those who deprive themselves of the yummy tasty goodness bacon.

I don't know what would be worse, having eaten it and now denying yourself of the delicious delicacy or never to have known the extreme pleasure of having the awesomely savory succulent treat passing your lips?

I was a vegetarian for almost 7 years. I switched back to omnivorous diet about 10 years ago. Weight fluctuates quite a bit and I haven't had the chance to work out nearly as much as I would like. I began ketogenic diet a few weeks ago. Lots of bacon, milk, eggs , cheese etc. I lost 15 lbs and 5 percent body fat since then. 2 pants sizes. No BS. I feel better and have consistent energy. So based on that I would say that meat and dairy are not a problem

I have noticed a lot of information battling when it comes to diets.
Vegan, vegetarian, paleo, low carb, no carb, ketogenic, etc etc etc.
Some diets seem to work for some and not fr others.

1) Could it be that the proper diet depends on the individual?
2) Could it be that the proper diet also depends on goals and type of sport?

After all, have you ever known a vegan sumo wrestler?
Ok, maybe bad example since this is a cycling forum. lol

But seriously, the reason there is so much controversy in diets is not everyone's bodies are made up the same way. Not to mention all of our goals are not the same.

Some of us just enjoy eating meat and drinking beer but want to go through life without being fat.

BTW, I have several customers of mine that are knocking on the door of 100 years of age and I would say over 90% of my customers are seniors (I work in a high retirement community) and I don't know of any of them that are vegetarians let alone vegans.
My oldest is 98 years old and no signs of dying before 100 and is still on the golf course 2-3 times a week, cuts his rather large yard himself and is fairly active regularly. I know he eats meat and still drinks beer.....could it be that lifestyle and not just diet has more to do with a long healthy life?

I have noticed a lot of information battling when it comes to diets.
Vegan, vegetarian, paleo, low carb, no carb, ketogenic, etc etc etc.
Some diets seem to work for some and not fr others.

1) Could it be that the proper diet depends on the individual?
2) Could it be that the proper diet also depends on goals and type of sport?

After all, have you ever known a vegan sumo wrestler?
Ok, maybe bad example since this is a cycling forum. lol

But seriously, the reason there is so much controversy in diets is not everyone's bodies are made up the same way. Not to mention all of our goals are not the same.

Some of us just enjoy eating meat and drinking beer but want to go through life without being fat.

BTW, I have several customers of mine that are knocking on the door of 100 years of age and I would say over 90% of my customers are seniors (I work in a high retirement community) and I don't know of any of them that are vegetarians let alone vegans.
My oldest is 98 years old and no signs of dying before 100 and is still on the golf course 2-3 times a week, cuts his rather large yard himself and is fairly active regularly. I know he eats meat and still drinks beer.....could it be that lifestyle and not just diet has more to do with a long healthy life?

I totally get it now. We have several horses and everyone of them has a different diet. Some of the deer on our property are even carnivores! But they all seem to be thriving!
Still if you do the research the longest lived cultures and people eat a predominately plant based diet.
You can find examples of people who have trashed their bodies, by poor diet, smoking, drinking etc and have had fairly long lives, BUT chances are they would have lived 10 to 20 years longer with fewer problems if they would have taken care of themselves.
My mom turned 95 and is dong amazingly well. Two of my sisters and myself have had cancer. Food and the environment has changed and I fear not for the better.

I totally get it now. We have several horses and everyone of them has a different diet. Some of the deer on our property are even carnivores! But they all seem to be thriving!

What is your point?
I have had plenty of snakes throughout the years all of which ate completely carnivores diets. The deer on my property are not carnivores like your (that is actually kind of scary) but the bear are omnivores and all seem to be happy.

So are you seriously comparing the diets of animals that are designed to eat only plant based diets to humans that are designed to eat an omnivores diet?

No matter, if I die sooner, I will die happy and hopefully it will be with a strip of bacon in one hand and a beer in the other.

What is your point?
I have had plenty of snakes throughout the years all of which ate completely carnivores diets. The deer on my property are not carnivores like your (that is actually kind of scary) but the bear are omnivores and all seem to be happy.

So are you seriously comparing the diets of animals that are designed to eat only plant based diets to humans that are designed to eat an omnivores diet?

No matter, if I die sooner, I will die happy and hopefully it will be with a strip of bacon in one hand and a beer in the other.

I always like when people ask "what is your point??" The point was there in black and white. If I had no point then how could you even respond??
More food for thought: http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

I always like when people ask "what is your point??" The point was there in black and white. If I had no point then how could you even respond??
More food for thought: http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

No, it wasn't in black and white.

All you did was throw up giant straw man comparing humans to horses and deer which is just ridiculous.

So why don't we compare them to carnivorous animals?
Here are a few lean ones
Lions, cheetahs, jaguars and leopards.

I have noticed a lot of information battling when it comes to diets.
Vegan, vegetarian, paleo, low carb, no carb, ketogenic, etc etc etc.
Some diets seem to work for some and not fr others.

1) Could it be that the proper diet depends on the individual?
2) Could it be that the proper diet also depends on goals and type of sport?

After all, have you ever known a vegan sumo wrestler?
Ok, maybe bad example since this is a cycling forum. lol

But seriously, the reason there is so much controversy in diets is not everyone's bodies are made up the same way. Not to mention all of our goals are not the same.

Some of us just enjoy eating meat and drinking beer but want to go through life without being fat.

BTW, I have several customers of mine that are knocking on the door of 100 years of age and I would say over 90% of my customers are seniors (I work in a high retirement community) and I don't know of any of them that are vegetarians let alone vegans.
My oldest is 98 years old and no signs of dying before 100 and is still on the golf course 2-3 times a week, cuts his rather large yard himself and is fairly active regularly. I know he eats meat and still drinks beer.....could it be that lifestyle and not just diet has more to do with a long healthy life?

Ding ding ding!!!
We have a winner!

One of the biggest reasons I entered the Health Coaching program I'm in is the focus on bio-individuality. No one diet can work for everyone.
That being said, I think most of us on this forum would agree that the typical modern American diet is not helping us as a whole. Far too much poor quality meats and highly processed, chemical- and sugar-laden foods.

We've switched to a predominantly vegetable-based diet, but pure vegan or vegetarian hasn't worked for either of us. We're very careful about what meat we eat, and it's definitely more of a "side dish" for us now.

Interesting discovery- Ayurvedic doctors (practitioners of traditional, pre-Hindu Indian medicine,) will often write prescriptions for red meat for certain illnesses related to vitamin and protein deficiencies. Neither here nor there as it doesn't really pertain to most of our circumstances. I just found it interesting.

One of the biggest reasons I entered the Health Coaching program I'm in is the focus on bio-individuality. No one diet can work for everyone.
That being said, I think most of us on this forum would agree that the typical modern American diet is not helping us as a whole. Far too much poor quality meats and highly processed, chemical- and sugar-laden foods.

We've switched to a predominantly vegetable-based diet, but pure vegan or vegetarian hasn't worked for either of us. We're very careful about what meat we eat, and it's definitely more of a "side dish" for us now.

Interesting discovery- Ayurvedic doctors (practitioners of traditional, pre-Hindu Indian medicine,) will often write prescriptions for red meat for certain illnesses related to vitamin and protein deficiencies. Neither here nor there as it doesn't really pertain to most of our circumstances. I just found it interesting.

Los

Certainly cutting down on meat (particularly lot raised meat) is good. Most people get way too much protein. In fact drinking too much milk strips the body of calcium, the very thing people drink milk for. Watch "forks over knives" for a more detailed description of how this works.

Our present western diet is making us sick and fat and causing health care costs to go through the roof. I just wonder what the life expectancy of our children will be??

Certainly cutting down on meat (particularly lot raised meat) is good. Most people get way too much protein. In fact drinking too much milk strips the body of calcium, the very thing people drink milk for. Watch "forks over knives" for a more detailed description of how this works.

Our present western diet is making us sick and fat and causing health care costs to go through the roof. I just wonder what the life expectancy of our children will be??

There's soooooo much wrong with the milk most people drink!
"Forks Over Knives" is good, I enjoyed "Food, Inc," and "Food Matters" as well.

One of the biggest reasons I entered the Health Coaching program I'm in is the focus on bio-individuality. No one diet can work for everyone.That being said, I think most of us on this forum would agree that the typical modern American diet is not helping us as a whole. Far too much poor quality meats and highly processed, chemical- and sugar-laden foods.

We've switched to a predominantly vegetable-based diet, but pure vegan or vegetarian hasn't worked for either of us. We're very careful about what meat we eat, and it's definitely more of a "side dish" for us now.

Interesting discovery- Ayurvedic doctors (practitioners of traditional, pre-Hindu Indian medicine,) will often write prescriptions for red meat for certain illnesses related to vitamin and protein deficiencies. Neither here nor there as it doesn't really pertain to most of our circumstances. I just found it interesting.

Los

Oh, no doubt.
Most red meat is riddled with added hormones, antibiotics, etc. and nobody wants to spend twice as much for the grass fed hormone free and antibiotic free beef. What is more important than not eating meat is where you get it from and the cuts you get.

Bacon of course is the exception because if you eat enough you will become immortal.

Of course, I am sure many of these vegetarians and vegans are in for a rude awakening when they realize how much pesticides are on their produce if they are not buying organic. Guess what, crop dusters used to dump chlordane over they fields and that stuff does not go away......ever.

Why meat and dairy is the recipie to great performance and a long life!!

Originally Posted by kjlued

Oh, no doubt.
Most red meat is riddled with added hormones, antibiotics, etc. and nobody wants to spend twice as much for the grass fed hormone free and antibiotic free beef. What is more important than not eating meat is where you get it from and the cuts you get.

Bacon of course is the exception because if you eat enough you will become immortal.

Of course, I am sure many of these vegetarians and vegans are in for a rude awakening when they realize how much pesticides are on their produce if they are not buying organic. Guess what, crop dusters used to dump chlordane over they fields and that stuff does not go away......ever.

We're very fortunate here in Boise to have several beef and bison ranches nearby that raise 100% grass-fed meats. They're good people, too. It's nice to be able to have extended conversations with the providers!

Vegetarian is just an old Indian word for bad hunter. But seriously what is the stance on wild game with no preservatives in it? If preservatives are the reason you don't eat meat would you be willing to eat moose, bear, etc?

All i know is that I top most of the Strava leaderboards in my city of Adelaide Australia and we literally produce more top level riders from all styles than any other city in on EARTH lol!

Ive been vegan for 12 years. Animal products just makes you sicker and fatter than you would be if you didnt consume em. Bit like a good rider can perform well on a 1998 xc bike BUT will perform even better on the latest technology.

Congratulations but most people here are not trying to top strava boards or could care less about topping them. I would say most people here cycle to have fun and/or be a little bit healthier so they can eat more bacon and drink more beer.

All i know is that I top most of the Strava leaderboards in my city of Adelaide Australia and we literally produce more top level riders from all styles than any other city in on EARTH lol!

Ive been vegan for 12 years. Animal products just makes you sicker and fatter than you would be if you didnt consume em. Bit like a good rider can perform well on a 1998 xc bike BUT will perform even better on the latest technology.

"In his book, "Diet for a Poisoned Planet", David Steinman reports that of all the toxic chemicals found in food, 95 to 99 percent come from meat, fish, dairy, and eggs. He also reveals that many of the tests performed don't even detect many chemicals and pesticides. The Food and Drug Administration's own Total Diet Study found that bacon had 48 different pesticide residues, bologna and other luncheon meats had 102 different industrial pollutants and pesticides, fast food hamburgers had 113 residues, hot dogs had 123, and ground beef had 82 industrial chemical and pesticide residues, just to name a few.

In comparison, meat contains 14 times more pesticides than plant foods, and dairy has 5 times more pesticides than plant foods. The United States alone uses ONE BILLION POUNDS of pesticides every year on our food. That, our pathetic contamination sampling process, and our use of growth hormones has caused the European Economic Community to reject our meat exportations on numerous occasions."

The problem with meat and dairy are the multiplier effect that it has on toxins. That is why higher level carnivores and fish have so many toxins in their flesh. Better to eat sprayed plants than meat. The toxins in mothers milk is so much greater for those who eat meat and dairy vs. those that don't.

As far as our Strava friend is concerned he is just illustrating that you can perform at a high level not eating meat.

If you want to make sure you have colon and prostate problems you should eat a lot of meat. 100,000 new cases of colon cancer are expected in America this year, causing about 50,000 deaths. With 2/3 of men having prostate cancer by the time they are in their sixties, there will be about 240,000 new cases of prostate cancer in America this year, causing about 30,000 deaths.

Oh, and cholesterol only comes from animal products. How many people have high cholesterol issues? 100 million Americans have high blood pressure, high cholesterol or both. High blood pressure and high cholesterol are two of the major risk factors for heart attacks, strokes and other cardiovascular diseases, which are the leading cause of death in the United States, killing 800,000 people every year.

There is a lot of talk on here about the availability of organic meat. It's meat, it doesn't matter. Our bodies don't do well with it in any form.

The problem with meat and dairy are the multiplier effect that it has on toxins. That is why higher level carnivores and fish have so many toxins in their flesh. Better to eat sprayed plants than meat. The toxins in mothers milk is so much greater for those who eat meat and dairy vs. those that don't.

As far as our Strava friend is concerned he is just illustrating that you can perform at a high level not eating meat.

So how do the herbivores end up with so many toxins in their meat if they are only eating the plants that have fewer toxins?
And I'm pretty sure our Strava friend here was trying to imply that he performed at a higher level specfically because he doesn't eat mat.

Really though, I would rather die of a stroke at the age of 63, with high cholestorol, high blood pressure, and diabetes, than be stuck around for another 20+ years beyond that watching my body slowly decay away to the point I can't even get myself to the bathroom on time or even remember where it is.

Really though, I would rather die of a stroke at the age of 63, with high cholestorol, high blood pressure, and diabetes, than be stuck around for another 20+ years beyond that watching my body slowly decay away to the point I can't even get myself to the bathroom on time or even remember where it is.

Might be great if you just died but most of the time it means a lower standard of life with the "need" of a lot of medications and medical costs. Most of the health care costs in America could be eliminated by healthier living. As far as living another twenty years, have you ever ridden with a healthy seventy-year old? One of my riding buddies is closing in on eighty. I'd bet he'd ride most guys into the ground on a road bike. I just watched a video of him on motorcycle track passing all but two guys at speeds of well over 100 mph. Being healthy means you don't have to stop living when you get older or haul around an oxygen tank and a bag full of medications.

If you want to make sure you have colon and prostate problems you should eat a lot of meat. 100,000 new cases of colon cancer are expected in America this year, causing about 50,000 deaths. With 2/3 of men having prostate cancer by the time they are in their sixties, there will be about 240,000 new cases of prostate cancer in America this year, causing about 30,000 deaths.

Oh, and cholesterol only comes from animal products. How many people have high cholesterol issues? 100 million Americans have high blood pressure, high cholesterol or both. High blood pressure and high cholesterol are two of the major risk factors for heart attacks, strokes and other cardiovascular diseases, which are the leading cause of death in the United States, killing 800,000 people every year.

There is a lot of talk on here about the availability of organic meat. It's meat, it doesn't matter. Our bodies don't do well with it in any form.

Scare tactics, lol

I have an appoint in a week or two with my 98 year old customer who still goes out to the golf course 2-3 times a week. I will be sure to tell him to stop eating meat because it isn't good for him.

BTW, how many of todays 100+ year old people do you think lived a vegan lifestyle?
I would venture that the majority of them have no idea what a vegan is.

There are exceptions to every rule but clearly they are the exceptions. Also, many of them might not be vegetarians but it is likely that they do enough of the good things to allow them to live to those ages.

All I did was quote facts. By the way, there aren't a large percentage of people to live to over 100 in America but there are cultures that are vegetarian that see 100 regularly. In America, only 0.0173% of Americans live to 100.

To say that people can live through a car crash where one rolls his vehicle a dozen times because you know someone who has is kind of a stupid rule to try to live by.

Scare tactics? It is scary when this country spends billions of dollars every year trying to treat heart disease and high blood pressure.

There are exceptions to every rule but clearly they are the exceptions. Also, many of them might not be vegetarians but it is likely that they do enough of the good things to allow them to live to those ages.

All I did was quote facts. By the way, there aren't a large percentage of people to live to over 100 in America but there are cultures that are vegetarian that see 100 regularly. In America, only 0.0173% of Americans live to 100.

To say that people can live through a car crash where one rolls his vehicle a dozen times because you know someone who has is kind of a stupid rule to try to live by.

Scare tactics? It is scary when this country spends billions of dollars every year trying to treat heart disease and high blood pressure.

There are cultures that have been primarily plant based as there are many that have been primarily meat based.

Of course there is always "the exception"....like maybe the Inuits who eat very little to no fruits in vegetable and have a very high meat and fat diet yet somehow had little to no diseases of modern man.

Man, it doesn't matter which vegetarian culture you look at. They all live longer than Americans, with fewer health issues. Try Ikaria, Nicoya, Okinawa, and many others that have high concentrations of active men over the age of 100. This isn't new information, it is just hidden beneath a bunch of social pressure and advertising that says we need beef, or chicken, or "the other white meat".

The Seventh-Day Adventists here in America live on average almost a decade longer than the rest of Americans. The Adventists encourage healthy living and many are vegetarians.

The problem with the OP's suggested topic, "Why meat and dairy is the recipie to great performance and a long life!" is that it isn't supported by the facts. The exact opposite is true unless you ask the National Dairy Counsel or someone in the beef industry.

Wow! Okinawans are vegetarians? Spent a lot of time there? Just because you say something, it doesn't make it true.
While I agree that a plant based diet is healthy, it's not for everyone. My father will be 92 this July. Ate the SAD diet. There are more variables to longevity then diet alone.

Wow! Okinawans are vegetarians? Spent a lot of time there? Just because you say something, it doesn't make it true.
While I agree that a plant based diet is healthy, it's not for everyone. My father will be 92 this July. Ate the SAD diet. There are more variables to longevity then diet alone.