As I said it was my personal opinion. If you want the offical published stats from 3E for a scro its +4 Str, +2 dex, +2 Con. That and darvision and +1 to attacks against elves nets them a +2 level adjustment

Relative to the 3E orc that gives them +2 dex, +2 con, +2 int, +2cha, AND +2 wis...I think 4E has a lot of problems but capitol of that (imo) is that there are not attribute penalties. So, I don't know what the Orc PC class looks like, but I know it would not have penalties, so given that the Scro has all bonuses relative to the Orc (except Str) then you are relatively free to pick whichever you want

glenw wrote:As I said it was my personal opinion. If you want the offical published stats from 3E for a scro its +4 Str, +2 dex, +2 Con. That and darvision and +1 to attacks against elves nets them a +2 level adjustment

Relative to the 3E orc that gives them +2 dex, +2 con, +2 int, +2cha, AND +2 wis...I think 4E has a lot of problems but capitol of that (imo) is that there are not attribute penalties. So, I don't know what the Orc PC class looks like, but I know it would not have penalties, so given that the Scro has all bonuses relative to the Orc (except Str) then you are relatively free to pick whichever you want

I think the only orc PC race description for 4e is the one in the back of the MM, unless it has been done on DDI, which I still refuse to sign up for. And I do wish 4e had been designed with attribute penalties. I've even toyed with the idea of adding in such penalties. However, t this point I want to keep what I'm designing in line with D&D Essentials.

Daily ◊ ConjurationStandard Action | Area burst 2 within 10 squaresEffect: You conjure a burst of arcane fog. The cloud lasts until the end of your next turn. The fog grants concealment to creatures in its space and blocks line of sight.Sustain Minor: The cloud persists.

Natural Climber: A hadozee doesn't grant combat advantage to foes while climbing. In addition, a hadozee that takes damage while climbing has no risk of falling.

Glide: You have the glide power.

Glide [Hadozee Racial Power]You can glide through the air as easily as you walk across the ground.

EncounterRequirement: You must be at least 2 squares above the ground or on an edge to use this power.Move Action | PersonalEffect: You can move 4 squares through the air for every 1 square of descent to a maximum of 8 squares.Restriction: You cannot glide upward, can glide downward only 1 square per round, and have an altitude limit of 20. In all other respects, gliding is like flying.

Not sure that non-detection really works as an encounter power...I mean, most divination is initiated outside of combat. besides, an encounter power that makes divination spells not find you once combat has already started is not that useful. It certainly would be if combined with racial stealthiness or invisibily powers or the like, but you have not given them anything like that.

This may be reading my own opinion into it but I always assumed the nondetection was more based on the idea of these people not wanting to be found after they leave the area.

I also noted that the Wiggle's fog power above does not purify the air, which is one of the awesome reasons to keep get one on your crew.

I realize that is difficult to come up with encounter powers, but Gliding with the Hadozze, I think of as a method of motion. I mean, does this really mean that their flaps only work once in any fight? This effectivly means that a Hadozze could not glide down a hole by jumping from side to side. It would be like a person having "punch" as an encounter power.

glenw wrote:Not sure that non-detection really works as an encounter power...I mean, most divination is initiated outside of combat. besides, an encounter power that makes divination spells not find you once combat has already started is not that useful. It certainly would be if combined with racial stealthiness or invisibily powers or the like, but you have not given them anything like that.

This may be reading my own opinion into it but I always assumed the nondetection was more based on the idea of these people not wanting to be found after they leave the area.

That is the problem. It doesn't seem to fit as a 4e power. I'm not sure what I want to do for the Aperusa. The other major magical ability they have (as per Beyond the Moons) is feign death, which is just as problematic as a power.

Do you have any recommendations?

glenw wrote:I also noted that the Wiggle's fog power above does not purify the air, which is one of the awesome reasons to keep get one on your crew.

Well, that all depends on whether or not my version of Spelljammer 4e is set in the standard Wildspace that uses air envelopes. I haven't decided yet.

glenw wrote:I realize that is difficult to come up with encounter powers, but Gliding with the Hadozze, I think of as a method of motion. I mean, does this really mean that their flaps only work once in any fight? This effectivly means that a Hadozze could not glide down a hole by jumping from side to side. It would be like a person having "punch" as an encounter power.

Well, the glide power might be better as an at-will power but I can't say for certain. None of the core 4e races have the ability to fly, so I don't think its a good idea for a new race to be able to take to the air at will.

glenw wrote:Not sure that non-detection really works as an encounter power...I mean, most divination is initiated outside of combat. besides, an encounter power that makes divination spells not find you once combat has already started is not that useful. It certainly would be if combined with racial stealthiness or invisibily powers or the like, but you have not given them anything like that.

This may be reading my own opinion into it but I always assumed the nondetection was more based on the idea of these people not wanting to be found after they leave the area.

That is the problem. It doesn't seem to fit as a 4e power. I'm not sure what I want to do for the Aperusa. The other major magical ability they have (as per Beyond the Moons) is feign death, which is just as problematic as a power.

Do you have any recommendations?

you could stop trying to do an *exact* conversion and do something approximate.

is there some particular reason you couldn't just give them an always-on higher defense against detection powers?

and give them a triggered on-death ability that automatically stabilises them, teleports them a short distance (say range 5?) and renders their body invisible while placing an illusion in their original location? yes, it's a lot for a racial power, but it isn't really powerful ultimately.

I agree with Jaid, I don't see a reason why Aperusa can't just have an always on power. Who cares if it does not have a similar effect in 4e...last I checked, 4e didn't have Aperusa but that doesn't seem to be stopping you.

Hadozze can't fly so I would't worry about that either. All they can do is fall with style. Its not like in the middle of combat they can take wing and reign holly fire down on their enemies. In the majority of player scenarios combat field is relatively flat. Even if it isn't the PC will have to get to a high location before they can overwhelm their adversaries with their ability to move forward while moving down. If you think that is too powerful you can add realism to it and say that gliding is a standard action (except perhaps for some kind of bull rush asssault). Regardless, even being "at-will" it is not even truly that as it is inherently situation based (no drop, no glide). Having a species based ability to breath underwater could net you a level adjustment in a water world campaign setting but would be forgettable for most PCs in most campaigns in most situations (especially Darksun).

A ship inherently has height. so a Hadozze high in the riggings obviously have the opportunity to glide, but once "glode" the trick is over...and what do they get for their troubles, either well away from the fight or right in the middle of all of it.

even so, you could very legitimately put armor restrictions or encumbrance restriction on gliding.

Last edited by glenw on Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

glenw wrote:Not sure that non-detection really works as an encounter power...I mean, most divination is initiated outside of combat. besides, an encounter power that makes divination spells not find you once combat has already started is not that useful. It certainly would be if combined with racial stealthiness or invisibily powers or the like, but you have not given them anything like that.

This may be reading my own opinion into it but I always assumed the nondetection was more based on the idea of these people not wanting to be found after they leave the area.

That is the problem. It doesn't seem to fit as a 4e power. I'm not sure what I want to do for the Aperusa. The other major magical ability they have (as per Beyond the Moons) is feign death, which is just as problematic as a power.

Do you have any recommendations?

you could stop trying to do an *exact* conversion and do something approximate.

is there some particular reason you couldn't just give them an always-on higher defense against detection powers?

and give them a triggered on-death ability that automatically stabilises them, teleports them a short distance (say range 5?) and renders their body invisible while placing an illusion in their original location? yes, it's a lot for a racial power, but it isn't really powerful ultimately.

Well, 4E felt the need to get rod of the the proffession skills, if not so I would have given them +2 to Profession (soldier / mercenary) since they all seem to be that and thus apparently have a predaliction to it.

In response I would only really have History or Diplomacy to go with to emphasis their love of suits and such. No good fits.

glenw wrote:Well, 4E felt the need to get rod of the the proffession skills, if not so I would have given them +2 to Profession (soldier / mercenary) since they all seem to be that and thus apparently have a predaliction to it.

In response I would only really have History or Diplomacy to go with to emphasis their love of suits and such. No good fits.

I do dislike that there isn't any Profession or Craft skills in 4e, but I'm not at the point where I feel comfortable house ruling them back into the game. Therefore, I'm going to stick to what's available.

History could be an interesting choice but the creature entry for the Giff on Beyond the Moons specifically says they're not good at Diplomacy, which is why I disregarded it as a choice. Insight might be another possible choice. And the more I think about it, the more I don't like Athletics. I'm going to change it to Endurance, for now.

FYI... this thread is open to anyone who wants to take what I've already done here and develop it more. I'm not as keen on 4E as I once tired to be. I will look in here once in a while if people have any general questions they want to ask me.