Okay, the Cubs franchise going 108 years without a win ultimately wins out, but still: Michaela’s blindside was not just the biggest exit of the season within the game, but easily the most shocking result of the season for fans as well. After making it look like the four Millennials of Ikabula would turn on either Bret LaBelle or Sunday Burquest, the show took a sudden turn for the unexpected as Jay Starrett and Will Wahl combined forces to toss Michaela out of the game right before the merge — an astonishing outcome given Michaela’s larger-than-life presence on the show, and her virtually instant fan-favorite status from the moment the season started.

Wigler: I’m shocked. I’m still very shocked right now. Having trouble forming words. You might need to help me out here.

Michaela: Oh, I will. I’m in the same boat as you, but I might be able to give you some context here.

Wigler: I have been watching Survivor since the beginning, and I can’t remember a bigger immediate reaction to getting voted out — especially seeing as you weren’t even voted out before you turned around and gave Jay the death stare. What do you remember of that moment? Were you seeing red?

Michaela: I was… in that moment, I felt so betrayed. I felt so devastated. But I knew once I saw … I knew one vote was bad. If Bret and Sunday felt they were going home, they would have voted for each other. Two votes tells me they’re both in on the same thing, and someone told them [to vote for me]. I don’t think Bret would vote for me just out of the blue, or Sunday. We were cool. At three votes, I was like, “Jay, this has to be your doing.” But Jay and I had so many conversations. Neither of our families come from money. We talked about how important this was for each other, and how much of a help those funds would be, and how we would use them. Not spending them on frivolous things. Investments. Things to get ahead. We were on the same page with that. For him to jump ship like that on me was just… it hurt my heart. It was deeper than the game in that moment for me. I just… I lost most of my vocabulary in that moment.

Wigler: What didn’t we see? Did it go on much longer?

Michaela: Oh, it went very long. I had a few words for Jay. I didn’t have any hard feelings toward anyone else. Someone had to go home. My idea was… I liked everyone on Ikabula so much. That’s why I dug so deep on every challenge. I wanted to help our team win so we could go into the merge together. It was devastating to have to be there to begin with. I didn’t want to see anyone go home, but I sure didn’t want to see me go home. (Laughs.) When the plan flipped so hard on me, I was just devastated and super upset. I felt super betrayed by Jay and I let him know that very directly. Then my mind was so focused on getting that million dollars and getting to the end that I didn’t pay attention at all to what you do when you get voted out. So I walked up to Jeff without my torch. I didn’t even have my torch the first time I walked up to Jeff. And then he looked at me and was like, “You need your torch.” But I wasn’t planning to get snuffed! So I went back to get my torch, and he’s about to snuff me, but wait! Now I have to bring all my stuff! So I had to go back and get my shoes. It was just not planned. But it was crazy. In retrospect, I understand why it happened — you’re playing a game of Survivor, no one is playing for me to win a million dollars; they’re playing so they can win a million dollars — but on a personal level, in the moment, it hurt.

Wigler: I saw some people thinking it was going to get physical, that we were about to see the first punch ever thrown on Survivor… and technically, you did end up punching a tree.

Michaela: That tree was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. (Laughs.) I’m not a violent person. I believe in us holding hands and singing “Kumbaya,” but when you get betrayed and hurt on that level, there’s a certain amount of adrenaline pumping through the veins. There’s a lot of passion, and passion needs an exit. In the moment, it’s like if you’re dating someone and they cheat on you. A part of you still loves that person or wants to love them, and you’re just hurt. That’s how I felt with Jay. I wouldn’t hit a person, but I did need to release that energy.

Wigler: The instant classic moment of the night is you turning to Jay and asking him if he did this, and he responds, ice cold, “I did it.” What do you remember about that stare down?

Michaela: I was just looking for a reason in his eyes, because your eyes tell a lot about a person. I could tell that Jay was playing hard in the game. Again, because his love for his mom and sister is real. He wants to change things for his family in the same way that I want to change things and leave a legacy for my family. I understood how he felt like, up front, he would have to do things outside of his character, because his goal is so big that he’s willing to do that. But when I’m looking at him, I’m looking to see the reason behind this. And the reason I saw in his eyes is because I’m a threat, and let’s do this now, because it’ll get harder the longer you stay in this game with me. So I didn’t feel like Jay necessarily wanted from a personal perspective to do that. I felt his goal of winning the million dollars was so big for him that he was willing to cut me to get it. It’s two different come froms: me and my desire for that million dollars is so big, but I’m not necessarily willing to go against my character or whatever to get it done. I wanted to establish a team and win it for my team. Me winning for my team would have guaranteed me a million dollars in the end, but everyone knew that, which is why they didn’t want me on their team.

Wigler: You knew about Jay’s idol. Was there any temptation to blow up that information before you left Tribal?

Michaela: There’s definitely the thought. (Laughs.) There are a few aspects of the human personality. Part of me was devastated. Part of me was angry. But the person that I am, I respect competition. I respect power moves. For Jay, that was a big move. Even though it hurt me and I was the one sent home, I’m not the person to throw salt in someone else’s game just because the game didn’t go how I wanted it to go. If I was really going to reveal Jay’s idol, I should’ve done it on the island, and then it would have been me making a strategic decision to reveal this, as opposed to you screwing me so I’ll screw you. That’s not how I play. When my name was written down that fourth time, my game was over, so no need for me to screw up someone else’s game just because I didn’t get the outcome I wanted.

Wigler: I have a lot of respect for that. How long did it take for you to calm down once Tribal ended, and after you punched the tree?

Michaela: The first element of the calm down came once one of the staff members gave me a Milky Way bar after my little exit talk or whatnot. There was something about that chocolate and that caramel that calmed me down. Then I realized: “Hey! At least I get to eat! At least I’m out of a stressful environment! At least I’m going to get to know some people as humans! I get to figure out who you are and have a regular conversation with you without thinking about how you’re going to use this information against me!” I started thinking about positives. I don’t like being bitter or upset. Those emotions happen, but I don’t want to live in them. So I was super upset, then I ate my Milky Way, and I started calming down. By the time I got to Ponderosa, I was super calm. I was back in Michaela mode, happy to be there. That night, before I went to sleep, I took some time and I looked at the notes I made for myself before the game. I wrote down what I actually did in the game. I realized there were quite a few key elements that I did the opposite of. In the game, I went back into real life mode. I acted like my true self. That’s great, but some elements of my true self — like being 100% forthright about how I think and feel, and trying to do everything for the team instead of being selfish — those are not things that are beneficial in the game of Survivor. I showed my strengths too early and made myself stick out. Even though I’m doing it for a good purpose to win immunity challenges, it put a target on myself. I realized: “Yo, Michaela, you had some really good ideas.” I looked at the notes I took of each person, before we were ever able to talk to each other. I had made snap judgments on each person. For Jay, I wrote something like: “Don’t trust him all the way.” I realized my initial perceptions of each person were basically right. So I said, “Okay, Michaela. If you just trusted your instincts and stuck to the plan and avoided reverting to your absolute 100% normal self during the game, this could have worked out a lot better for you.” But it was calming to know. I could see what I had intended to do, I could see where I deviated from that, and I could see how it landed with me here. That logical step was part of the process of calming myself down.

Wigler: And I assume you were further calmed down once you arrived at Ponderosa and saw your best friend Figgy waiting for you.

Michaela: (Laughs.) You know, I had a chance to try to start a new relationship with Figgy. We’ll see. We’ll see how that goes in real life. But I would say… she was way overshadowed by the fact that there were, what, five people there I had either never met or only spent a couple of days with. It was a blast to finally meet CeCe. It was a blast to finally meet Rachel, Paul and Lucy — all of those people. I spent a lot more time doing that than trying to relive the game with Figgy. It was a positive overall experience, my Ponderosa experience… and we got to eat, and there were no more flies. (Laughs.) I ate good, I smelled good, I had no more sand in my drawers. It was great.

Wigler: Watching you this season was so much fun, just as a television viewing experience. What has it been like for you and your friends and family to watch you on Survivor?

Michaela: Watching myself on Survivor has been so much fun, especially watching with friends and family members. This was a huge experience we had to keep super quiet for a long time. No one in our family was able to experience it with us. That’s a big burden. Being able to let this air on TV, I’ve been connecting with people I haven’t talked to that much recently. My friends, when they watch it, they’re like, “Ooh! I know Michaela, and that’s just like her. She would say that.” Then my parents — my dad, when he saw me start the fire and cry, he started crying, because he didn’t want me out there to begin with. It was cool, being able to watch it and share an awesome experience with other people. I loved that. I wanted to share the best of what I experienced with people I love. This being on TV allowed that to happen.

Wigler: What were the reactions in your living room during the “Ta-Tas” challenge?

Michaela: People were going crazy. (Laughs.) They were more interested in the fact that I went out in the challenge both times, and I was winning. They didn’t necessarily understand why I took my top off, but they were like, “That’s crazy!” It was a beast mode moment for them. But functionally, the reason that top came off is because Lucy was holding onto the back strap of my bikini. She ripped the top strap. My swim suit was already falling down and this girl is holding me by a string. It doesn’t make any sense to lose this challenge for being held by a string. So I made the decision to take it off. I just went for it. That was the epic moment. If my swimsuit came off and I lost, it would’ve been like, “Girl? Why did you do that?” But because we won, it was like, “BEAST MODE!” (Laughs.)

Josh Wigler is a writer, editor and podcaster who has been published by MTV News, New York Magazine, The Hollywood Reporter, Comic Book Resources and more. He is the co-author ofThe Evolution of Strategy: 30 Seasons of Survivor, an audiobook chronicling the reality TV show’s transformation, and one of the hosts of Post Show Recaps, a podcast about film and television. Follow Josh on Twitter @roundhoward.