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I don't see the point of the OP though. I assume it's in response to the horrible crime the other week. A few points though. That state has some of the toughest gun laws in the country, and this guy violated at least ten of them in addition to all his other horrid crimes. He stole the guns from his mother, who bought them legally. Which is yet another crime. He also was refused in an attempt to buy his own rifle the same week. So, basically none of the gun laws did a thing to stop this. Why? Because he wasn't interested in following them.

The real issue is the sad state of mental health in this country. Most mental hospitals have closed, so there are few options for treatment for those with mental illnesses. Mostly what we have left are hospitals for the criminally insane, (think Arkham), or those with developmental disabilities who might harm themselves. Anyone else has to have already done the massacre to get into a hospital.

And the mental patients lobby has seen to it that it is almost impossible to commit a patient, no matter what behavior he may be showing. This last is key. Even if this guy showed signs he might become violent, or had been before without actually killing someone, it still would be nearly impossible to commit him. Leaving aside the 72 holds for observation like the 51-50, which themselves are seriously hard to get, and easy for most mental patients to get around---and rarely lead to anything even if the guy is raving while under hold.

The mental health system in the US was decimated in the 70s and 80s due to budget cuts, (metal hospitals were the first on the chopping block), and the patient's lobby, which was responding to abuses in the system before, but overreacted and set the stage for this sort of thing.

Not to say we didn't have mass killings before, we certainly did, (and they also mostly involved nutcases like in the UT at Austin shootings), but they were far less regular. And this in an era when guns were more readily available, and when more types of guns were. And when carrying guns was a normal, accepted thing with fewer legal consequences throughout much of the country.

For those who say that guns make it easier---well, the same week in China, a guy went into a school and stabbed around twenty kids. And the largest mass school killing in US history involved a disgruntled district employee blowing up an elementary school with dynamite. Where there's an evil will, there's a way. Nor is there an practical way to make sure these guys don't get guns. As we see from this crime, someone intent on murder doesn't care about gun laws.

Even if you banned guns in violation of the Second Amendment, that wouldn't do a thing. There are hundreds of millions of guns out there. with more in the pipeline, (after all, weed and cocaine are banned, and still readily available, as was booze during prohibition). And again, those with evil intent aren't concerned about laws.

BTW, I don't get the inclusion of that EAA ad, if the intent of the OP was to comment on the week's hideous crime. I've never seen a modern killing, let alone massacre, done with SAA, (the Peacemaker, or which those revolvers are clones), or a coach-gun like the one on the right, (used by Wells Fargo stagecoach personnel who road "shotgun".

The Bushmaster he used BTW is most likely NOT an "Assault Rifle" as defined by state law. Those were banned in the early 90s there, and the only ones likely available to his mother are those with lower cap mags. Unless she had a pre-ban version, which meant she had to have bought it way back then. If she did have high cap mags, (which are available), she did so illegally.

So, if the public wants to add new gun laws, fine, but be aware that it won't solve the problem, or likely even slow it down.

Achilles is the kind of evil that hollows out a volcano for a lair, and sends killer robots after his enemies.---Lord Simian

I don't see the point of the OP though. I assume it's in response to the horrible crime the other week. A few points though. That state has some of the toughest gun laws in the country, and this guy violated at least ten of them in addition to all his other horrid crimes. He stole the guns from his mother, who bought them legally. Which is yet another crime. He also was refused in an attempt to buy his own rifle the same week. So, basically none of the gun laws did a thing to stop this. Why? Because he wasn't interested in following them.

The real issue is the sad state of mental health in this country. Most mental hospitals have closed, so there are few options for treatment for those with mental illnesses. Mostly what we have left are hospitals for the criminally insane, (think Arkham), or those with developmental disabilities who might harm themselves. Anyone else has to have already done the massacre to get into a hospital.

And the mental patients lobby has seen to it that it is almost impossible to commit a patient, no matter what behavior he may be showing. This last is key. Even if this guy showed signs he might become violent, or had been before without actually killing someone, it still would be nearly impossible to commit him. Leaving aside the 72 holds for observation like the 51-50, which themselves are seriously hard to get, and easy for most mental patients to get around---and rarely lead to anything even if the guy is raving while under hold.

The mental health system in the US was decimated in the 70s and 80s due to budget cuts, (metal hospitals were the first on the chopping block), and the patient's lobby, which was responding to abuses in the system before, but overreacted and set the stage for this sort of thing.

Not to say we didn't have mass killings before, we certainly did, (and they also mostly involved nutcases like in the UT at Austin shootings), but they were far less regular. And this in an era when guns were more readily available, and when more types of guns were. And when carrying guns was a normal, accepted thing with fewer legal consequences throughout much of the country.

For those who say that guns make it easier---well, the same week in China, a guy went into a school and stabbed around twenty kids. And the largest mass school killing in US history involved a disgruntled district employee blowing up an elementary school with dynamite. Where there's an evil will, there's a way. Nor is there an practical way to make sure these guys don't get guns. As we see from this crime, someone intent on murder doesn't care about gun laws.

Even if you banned guns in violation of the Second Amendment, that wouldn't do a thing. There are hundreds of millions of guns out there. with more in the pipeline, (after all, weed and cocaine are banned, and still readily available, as was booze during prohibition). And again, those with evil intent aren't concerned about laws.

BTW, I don't get the inclusion of that EAA ad, if the intent of the OP was to comment on the week's hideous crime. I've never seen a modern killing, let alone massacre, done with SAA, (the Peacemaker, or which those revolvers are clones), or a coach-gun like the one on the right, (used by Wells Fargo stagecoach personnel who road "shotgun".

The Bushmaster he used BTW is most likely NOT an "Assault Rifle" as defined by state law. Those were banned in the early 90s there, and the only ones likely available to his mother are those with lower cap mags. Unless she had a pre-ban version, which meant she had to have bought it way back then. If she did have high cap mags, (which are available), she did so illegally.

So, if the public wants to add new gun laws, fine, but be aware that it won't solve the problem, or likely even slow it down.

as far as getting a 72 hour hold, its not really all that hard, i went into the hospital 2 years ago with suicidal thoughts, didn't have a plan or anything, wasn't gonna harm anyone but possibly myself, and i was put on a 72 hour hold...

e_galston wrote:as far as getting a 72 hour hold, its not really all that hard, i went into the hospital 2 years ago with suicidal thoughts, didn't have a plan or anything, wasn't gonna harm anyone but possibly myself, and i was put on a 72 hour hold...

Thats interesting and everything but we're talking about Ghost Dog over here.

Another tidbit: Since 1950, every public shooting but one in which more than 3 people were killed happened in a "gun free zone". For example the Aurora shooting. There were seven other theatres in his area showing the movie, some closer. But the one he chose was the only one with those "guns prohibited" signs in front. A better sign might have been "helpless victim zone". It seems he went shopping for the place he could get away with it alive. Or at least get the maximum victims before getting killed. The exception BTW was the Giffords shooting the other year.

Yet another tibit: Ghost Dog sucks! His best performance was in that Van Damme movie...

Achilles is the kind of evil that hollows out a volcano for a lair, and sends killer robots after his enemies.---Lord Simian