Why turkey is not busted.

Hello. I want to be explaining to everyone that thinks turkey is a busted kit and my opinion on that, this is my own opinion so please feel free to comment your own opinion. I feel that it is not busted at all and in-fact is the complete opposite. I have used the official minecraft forums to figure out how much damage the turkey can output to each different type of player, the damage taken and the game mechanics which i think are true but i am obviously not always correct.

COMMANDER VS TURKEY​

Damage Output

You have the commander. This has full iron, the turkey has a wooden sword with does +3 dmg per hit. However since the commander has full iron it only does 1.38 damage per hit. Full iron has 15 armour points.
As you can see here is a chart of damage compared to armour points. You can see that with a weapon that deals 3 dmg, when compared to 15 armour points it says "1.38". So therefore it takes theoretically if they had no food it would take 15 hits minimum to kill them. This is without them using food.

Damage Intake

As a turkey user myself i am trying to make this as unbias as possible so you may take this next statement how you like. But to not die as turkey you MUST strafe your opponent as a turkey has all leather but legs.
Which means that it has 5 armour points. Compare this using the chart from before to an iron sword. which deals 6 damage, it would take only 4 hits to kill them.

Bow

You can still use your bow as it acts as if the turkey has a normal human hitbox as from what i have experienced.
As you can see there, a fully charged bow. Using the first table a turkey would be dealt 8.64 dmg per shot from a bow. This means that a turkey would be 3 shot by a bow. Making it even easier to kill by standing back so that you dont have to worry about the turkey's hitbox, this is a much better way to deal with its hitbox rather than going in with your sword trying to hit it. Take into account that the hitbox is - from my own experience - nonexistent when you use a bow and a bow is acquired much earlier than commander, yes there is a solid amount of time where people don't have a bow. But who is the people in those ranks? The new players. The people who play a lot usually save their chaos up so that they don't need to grind through those ranks. So if you find that you are unable to aim at the turkey, you can just resort to bow spamming them.

Fighting a commander

You have to get through the commander's armour, its health, and its healing and its grenades.

Turkey cannon

Let's say that you use your turkey cannon on the commander each level 5 turkey cannon entity deals 1.2 damage each let's say all of the entities from this hit. Meaning that you find the actual damage the commander takes and multiply that by 5. I did 1 x 1.2 as we do not have the exact value of 1.2 in the damage chart. I then went to 15 armour points and did 0.42 x 1.2. This gave me the answer of 0.504, that is the damage a turkey entity deals to a commander for each entity. Times that by 5 gives 2.52. This means that if you were to only use your turkey cannon in a fight, and if you WERE able to land all 5 entities. It would still take 8 launches of the cannon. Completely debunking peoples thoughts of the turkey cannon being too op.

PRIVATE VS TURKEY
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Damage output

Ok, so a private from the armour information used in the commander argument, has 7 armour points. Which means that a turkey deals 2.34 damage to a private each hit. This means that a private has to be hit at least 9 times to die to a turkey. Now, i can only see people's reasoning behind turkey being busted being here. As not saying all.

Types of privates

Yes sometimes you get the occasional god at pvp private, and they come and kill turkeys. But most of the time private's can't pvp which means that turkeys would most likely be able to get the 9 hits without dying. And yes the private has no bow. But private's also tend to not be in the middle of the action where everyone else is fighting. They are usually hiding as they know that anyone else could kill them.

Turkey Cannon

A turkey cannon, if you were to hit all 5 shots on a private. It would deal 0.888 damage per hit. Times by 5 again, gives 4.44 damage if you were to hit all 5 entities on the private. Again not much damage. It would still also take at least 5 launches with all 5 entities to kill a private if you were to only use the cannon.

That is my opinion on turkey and i would love to hear your response on this topic.

As a Turkey co-main, I can say with reasonable certainty that Turkey is the most brain dead, skill-less kit on MCI next to Wither. It’s not hard to combo, you can hide behind blocks to flawless people, and turkey cannon is still jank. Also, Turkey gets a +4 damage weapon (I fink). That means you do 5 total damage, because it’s your one fist damage plus 4 wood sword damage. That invalidates a lot of your argument about turkey needing 15 HITS TO KILL A COMMANDER LOOOOOL (can’t get over that). In fact, disproving the 15 hits thing is very easy to do if you were to play MCI for 5 seconds, seeing how roughly 50% of the player count commander camps. Besides, turkey cannon exists.

Now let’s get to bows. 90% sure bows against Turkey is good, but you’re still shooting a turkey-sized hitbox. It’s really not hard to juke the arrow though, seeing how flap exists.

As a Turkey co-main, I can say with reasonable certainty that Turkey is the most brain dead, skill-less kit on MCI next to Wither. It’s not hard to combo, you can hide behind blocks to flawless people, and turkey cannon is still jank. Also, Turkey gets a +4 damage weapon (I fink). That means you do 5 total damage, because it’s your one fist damage plus 4 wood sword damage. That invalidates a lot of your argument about turkey needing 15 HITS TO KILL A COMMANDER LOOOOOL (can’t get over that). In fact, disproving the 15 hits thing is very easy to do if you were to play MCI for 5 seconds, seeing how roughly 50% of the player count commander camps. Besides, turkey cannon exists.

Now let’s get to bows. 90% sure bows against Turkey is good, but you’re still shooting a turkey-sized hitbox. It’s really not hard to juke the arrow though, seeing how flap exists.

Anyway, to conclude turkey is still fucking stupid

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Lol call himself a 'Turkey co-main' but doesn't even know that the turkey sword only does 3+ attack damage. Sigh you failed me Kel... XD

@InDstructable I can agree where Turkey does not "break" the game in some points, but none of them I found in this thread, neither was this helpful at all, it just seems to put an idea that Turkey damages so little while being easily killed, which is pretty much what was obviously intended. However, I can assure you that Turkey as I played it deals almost the same amount of damage as a normal infected, and there are so many ways I've avoided being hit altogether. But first I want to point out a few things:

- I'm not sure where you're getting the numbers in the chart from, that's not at all how it works in 1.8 I know for a fact. Each armor point in 1.8 lays a flat 4% reduction for every additional point, which is not what the chart is saying.

- I have no idea what points you're trying to make inside your section - "Fighting a commander." How does this differentiate from anything?

- Turkey Cannon has a bug which allows you to deal damage by other means, that's what we mean when it's op, so it's not the damage that needs to be calculated.

I'm very sure that the damage Turkey deals as I play it is not even a problem to the kit itself. You didn't consider the critical hits which add +50% to the entire damage output, also onto that, adding strength outputs even more damage which is more helpful to Turkey than most other kits. You can't tell a kit's power by damage alone, I've 3 shotted Privates many times with Strength 2 on as a Turkey.

Turkey can avoid being hit by many ways, hiding behind objects is the simple one, and one of the worst scenarios that you can see yourself in is where the human is at a higher ground than the turkey, that's where the turkey is way out of reach. The one place I can definitely agree where turkeys are easily killed is a wide open area.

@InDstructable I can agree where Turkey does not "break" the game in some points, but none of them I found in this thread, neither was this helpful at all, it just seems to put an idea that Turkey damages so little while being easily killed, which is pretty much what was obviously intended. However, I can assure you that Turkey as I played it deals almost the same amount of damage as a normal infected, and there are so many ways I've avoided being hit altogether. But first I want to point out a few things:

- I'm not sure where you're getting the numbers in the chart from, that's not at all how it works in 1.8 I know for a fact. Each armor point in 1.8 lays a flat 4% reduction for every additional point, which is not what the chart is saying.

- I have no idea what points you're trying to make inside your section - "Fighting a commander." How does this differentiate from anything?

- Turkey Cannon has a bug which allows you to deal damage by other means, that's what we mean when it's op, so it's not the damage that needs to be calculated.

I'm very sure that the damage Turkey deals as I play it is not even a problem to the kit itself. You didn't consider the critical hits which add +50% to the entire damage output, also onto that, adding strength outputs even more damage which is more helpful to Turkey than most other kits. You can't tell a kit's power by damage alone, I've 3 shotted Privates many times with Strength 2 on as a Turkey.

Turkey can avoid being hit by many ways, hiding behind objects is the simple one, and one of the worst scenarios that you can see yourself in is where the human is at a higher ground than the turkey, that's where the turkey is way out of reach. The one place I can definitely agree where turkeys are easily killed is a wide open area.

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this wasn't meant to be a thread talking about the stats about turkey but to attempt to debunk people's thoughts on turkey still being busted

Also, did you even take into the account that the hit box is so small? I mean sure, it does little damage, but you can brainlessly combo people and decimate their health because they cannot hit you back.

When you try to prove a point but miss the entire fact of what that points trying to disprove *Smh*
The whole reason Turkey's damage was broken in the first place was because of the Instinct and Strength Bonus that was given out to projectiles weapons on ALL infected kits. You're also trying to prove a point based on damage only which isn't anywhere near the reason why Turkey is "Busted". The only reason that Turkey is broken and always will be broken is because of it's hitbox. Not only can ping play a massive part in where you can hit a player from but on top of that you now have to deal with a Kit that is 1/4th of a block. You know what that means? It means you get a whole 0.75 extra blocks of reach compared to the Survivor and that doesn't even include having to look down. You're entire argument here is useless and not even relevant.

Going into more detail on the hitbox for people who aren't that bright (Not meaning to offend).
So the Chickens hitbox is around 1/4th of a total block.
This means that that extra space allows the player to hit an extra 0.75 blocks on the client side of the opposite player.
This is because you are hitting the opposition based off of the original player's hitbox of 2 standing blocks.
This would also only be the case if you were 1 block below the Chicken as your hit range is based off of the player's head.
On top of that we then have to consider the extra 1.75 blocks that it takes to look down at the turkey (PoV + Hitbox)
With a base attack range of only 3 (Keep in mind this is Minecraft's default and not the servers) blocks that means that you have to be within less than 2 blocks to hit a Turkey.

When you try to prove a point but miss the entire fact of what that points trying to disprove *Smh*
The whole reason Turkey's damage was broken in the first place was because of the Instinct and Strength Bonus that was given out to projectiles weapons on ALL infected kits. You're also trying to prove a point based on damage only which isn't anywhere near the reason why Turkey is "Busted". The only reason that Turkey is broken and always will be broken is because of it's hitbox. Not only can ping play a massive part in where you can hit a player from but on top of that you now have to deal with a Kit that is 1/4th of a block. You know what that means? It means you get a whole 0.75 extra blocks of reach compared to the Survivor and that doesn't even include having to look down. You're entire argument here is useless and not even relevant.

Going into more detail on the hitbox for people who aren't that bright (Not meaning to offend).
So the Chickens hitbox is around 1/4th of a total block.
This means that that extra space allows the player to hit an extra 0.75 blocks on the client side of the opposite player.
This is because you are hitting the opposition based off of the original player's hitbox of 2 standing blocks.
This would also only be the case if you were 1 block below the Chicken as your hit range is based off of the player's head.
On top of that we then have to consider the extra 1.75 blocks that it takes to look down at the turkey (PoV + Hitbox)
With a base attack range of only 3 (Keep in mind this is Minecraft's default and not the servers) blocks that means that you have to be within less than 2 blocks to hit a Turkey.

Would you like to continue?

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I agree with mostly the first half of your post as the points weren't very clear, I would like to point out though that your facts are incorrect. Firstly the chickens hitbox is .7 of a total block here is proof: https://imgur.com/a/bRWmz (taken from https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Chicken) secondly I went to mci to test this, and in the second picture you can clearly see the turkey is .7 blocks high give or take .01.
Now, I'm going to show you a video of me hitting a turkey from 3 blocks, the turkey can also hit me (I'm obviously not using reach, you will also have to trust that ewald is tp'ing to the locations I told him to.)
Video Proof of 3 block hit on turkey:
I don't have a clear understanding of the mechanics of Minecraft so I can't provide numbers or calculations but if someone wants to do that be my guest.
Also: Its really late, I'm super tired, and very sick so sorry if the wording is all weird.
Thank you to @InDstructable for putting into a lot of effort to make this even if its not entirely accurate or the points don't make sense thank you for taking the time to do this.
Edit: The video isn't super clear on ewald's cords, the start of the vid and the first time he tp's he is 3.399 blocks away, and then the second tp he is 3.000 blocks away from me.

i would like to add my opinion, if you are going to play the game, deal with what is in the game and suck it up. if you dont like it dont play, because its just a choice to play a game that has turkey in it.

A turkey cannon, if you were to hit all 5 shots on a private. It would deal 0.888 damage per hit. Times by 5 again, gives 4.44 damage if you were to hit all 5 entities on the private. Again not much damage. It would still also take at least 5 launches with all 5 entities to kill a private if you were to only use the cannon.

That is my opinion on turkey and i would love to hear your response on this topic.

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This entire argument is invalid since each individual shot has a chance to explode, dealing additional damage.

As you can see here is a chart of damage compared to armour points. You can see that with a weapon that deals 3 dmg, when compared to 15 armour points it says "1.38". So therefore it takes theoretically if they had no food it would take 15 hits minimum to kill them. This is without them using food.

Click to expand...

If a turkey has z-power, juggernaut, surge, instinct, they can easily kill a commander in two lives or less. 15 hits minimum? this doesn't account for critical hits, environmental damage, and all the perks you get. I'd say a commander is lucky if it survives 10 hits from a turkey.

I'm just glad they nerfed the turkey cannon, I personally have no complaints, seeing as I no longer see that many turkeys.