Complete Godfather’s Pizza Sales Figure from the Herman Cain Years

Black Enterprise Magazine, Feb 1988

Herman Cain bases his campaign for the presidency on his success as a manager and CEO of Godfather’s Pizza. He claims to have brought Godfather’s Pizza from the edge of bankruptcy to profitability during his time there. He has never released any annual profit and loss statements to back this up. Pillsbury assigned Cain to Godfather’s in 1986. The company reached all time high profits in 1983, was still profitable in 1984, and only apparently was not profitable in 1985 due to a lawsuit. That lawsuit was settled before Cain became manager in 1986. It is simply a false statement that the company was on the edge of bankruptcy when he took over. The company had just been bought by Pillsbury, the second largest restaurant chain owner after McDonald’s in the United States, and they were predicting a bright future for their new pizza restaurant chain when Cain took over.

The only real objective evidence that is publicly available for how well he did is annual sales. How much did sales increase or decrease during Cain’s time at Godfather’s Pizza? Competition wise, Godfather’s dropped from fourth largest sales among Pizza chains to 11th during the time he was associated with the company. Here is a year by year breakdown:

1987: $260 million[11] (605 stores) (sales per store – $414,000)[12]. Note, while sales at Godfather’s dropped 5%, national Pizza sales “soared nearly 10 percent” in 1987[13]. In November, 1987, Cain predicted that in three years, Godfather’s would have over 1,000 stores. “‘We will exceed 1,000 units,’ he says, adding that ‘it may be exceeded by one unit or by 600.'”[14]. Cain’s prophesy of 1001-1600 stores by 1990 failed. The number of stores actually fell from 605 to 512.

1988: $242.5 million[15] (563 stores) On Jan 7, 1988, Cain says that he knows of no plans for Pillsbury to sell Godfather’s Pizzas. He says, “I would be the most surprised person in Omaha if they sold Godfather’s.[16]” Two months later, on March 17, Pillsbury announces that it is selling Godfather’s because it was not performing up to expectations. In September, Pillsbury sells Godfather’s Pizza to Cain and management group in a leveraged buyout for $30 or 40 million dollars[17].

1989: $225 million[18] (509 stores)

1990: $229 million[19] (512 stores)

1991: $231 million[20] (511 stores) (sales per store – $440,000)[21]

1992: $242 million

1993: $249.5 million

1994: $244 million[22] (514 stores) (sales per store – $490,000)

1995: $260 million (525 stores)

1996: $265.5 million (540 stores) (sales per store – $500,000) Cain becomes CEO of the National Restaurants Association in 1996, but was still on Godfather’s Management Board.

Inflation from 1985 to 2001 was 64.5%. In terms of 2002 dollars, the $325 million sales of 1985 would be the equivalent of $534 million at the beginning of 2002. The final sales in Cain’s last year with Godfather’s Pizza was $287 million total. When we compare it with the year before Cain’s arrival, adjusted for inflation, we find that sales at Godfather’s Pizza dropped 46% during Cain’s association with Godfather’s Pizza.

We might see how Cain did in just the years where he was CEO. Adjusting for inflation in 1985 to 1994 in order to compare 1985 to the last year, 1995, that he was a full time CEO at Godfather’s, 23 the $325 million Godfather’s sold in 1985 equals $448 million in 1995 dollars. Thus the drop was from $448 million to $265.5 million (in 1995 dollars). This is a drop of about 41%. Adjusted for inflation, sales dropped by about 41% in the ten years that Herman Cain ran the company as CEO. He had five years where sales decreased and five years where sales increased, but the years that sales increased barely kept up with inflation.

We might also note that total franchise pizza sales were $5.7 billion dollars in 1985 [28] and grew to over $11.2 billion in 1995 [29]. Thus, while sales went up 100% on average, Godfather’s under Cain went up 0%. In fact, it actually dropped from $275 to $265 million, a drop of four percent.

Godfather’s Pizza was bought for 300 million by Diversifoods Inc. in 1983. Pillsbury Inc. bought most of Diversifoods’ restaurants for about $390 million in 1985. Because Diversifoods sold over 300 Burger Kings and other restaurants to Pillsbury, it is hard to know how much Pillsbury actually paid for the 740 or so Godfather restaurants it bought. It was probably $100-150 million. Three years later, after Cain had been managing the restaurants for 2 1/2 years, they sold it to Cain and twenty other managers for $30-40 million dollars. Cain was sent by Pillsbury to increase the company’s value. He failed miserably. If he had succeeded, Pillsbury would not have sold the company with huge losses around $100 million dollars.

The goal of a management buyout is generally to quickly return a company to profitability and sell it at a profit. Cain was unable to accomplish this in the next seven years that he ran the company. When his run as CEO ended, he was still heavily leveraged to the bank for at least the $30 million dollars his management group had borrowed in 1988 to buy the company. This is from an article in Nation’s Restaurant News in January, 1995.

“My next goal is for Godfather’s to reach its goal of financial independence,” he says. Still heavily leveraged, the company has reduced its debt but still has some way to go. “I want to retire debt in order to allow us to grow the way we want to[30].”

Cain took over the fourth largest Pizza company in America with no debt and a great promising future and in ten years turned it into the eight largest pizza company in America, one with so much debt, it could not be sold. It is certainly true that he “turned around” the company as he likes to say.

Please ask reporters to question Herman Cain about why he doesn’t release his earnings statements from his Godfather Pizza years. He is asking for our vote for president, but not being honest with us about how well he did managing Godfather’s Pizza. Imagine a baseball player who tells you how great he did and how his terrible team turned around after he joined it, but he refuses to tell you his batting average. One has to suspect that he did not really contribute to the team’s turnaround or if there was a turnaround at all. For 25 years, Cain has bragged how he turned around Godfather’s Pizzas in hundreds of speeches, dozens of articles and five book. He has never once mentioned the profits Godfather’s made in a single year under his management. If one wants to find the profits made by any other major pizza restaurant chain, it is public information. Only Cain has hidden this information.

If anybody has any more actual facts about profits, losses and sales at Godfather’s during this time, please inform me through a comment or email.

For more information on how Mr. Cain did as a manager at Godfather’s, read my blogs starting here

[8] PRNewwire reported that Cain had taken over 817 stores on April 2, 1986. A week later the Omaha World Herald reported the number at 720. PRNewswire, Miami, Burger King Corp. announces appointment of Herman Cain as president of Godfather’s Pizza, April 2, 1986. Omaha World Herald, Steve Jordon, Richard Janda, New ‘Godfather’ Plans Boost in Pizza Market, April 9, 1986.

when you get your finance and economics degree perhaps you can revisit this and realize how pedestrian your comments are. This is a biased attempt to discredit Cain rather than an earnest attempt to educate voters.

I have a Ph.D. degree in Philosophy, so I do know when somebody is being fundamentally dishonest in his assertions and arguments about what he did and did not do.
Since he claims to have brought the company from the edge of bankruptcy to profitability, should we not demand that he release his profit and loss statements so we can check on his repeated assertions and find out if it is true or not?

Surely you understand the difference between sales and net profit? What you are reporting is strictly sales and numbers of stores. It is meaningless. Comparing yearly sales figures also completely ignores what was happening in the pizza chain industry at the time. The 80s was a period that saw many new entrants into the business and intense competition. All sales were distributed over an increased number of outlets. When Pillsbury sold Godfathers to Cain and a group of investors in 1988, there were 180 company-owned restaurants, all of which were profitable, and 420 franchises, few of which were profitable. You also fail to note that Cain was named President of Godfathers by Pillsbury because of his stellar record of performance in Philadelphia where he transformed that area’s 300+ Burger King stores from the least to the most profitable in the nation. Apparently, you also do not understand the concept of capital recovery. A corporation, such as Pillsbury, can buy a chain like Godfathers and use accelerated depreciation to decrease its corporate tax liability, then sell the chain for far less than was paid yet still receive more than the net value of the business. It was Cain who joined with a small group of investors that sunk everything they personally owned into Godfathers. He risked every cent and made the chain profitable again. He resigned as CEO because he became politically active and decided to pursue that arena. Jack Kemp named Cain his chief economic adviser during his primary run against Dole. Kemp was economically shrewd. Do you think he would name Cain to such a position if his reputation was less than stellar? Tell me, what previous chief executive and/or business experience does the guy that currently occupy the Whitehouse possess? What has he ever risked other than public money on failed “pie-in-the-sky” solar energy boondoggles?

Thank you for your observations. Many of them are false. For example the Burger Kings he took over were not the least profitable when he took them over. In fact they were more profitable than the average. I will go over this in a future blog.
I disagree that sales and number of stores figures are meaningless. In the absence of profit and loss statements, it is the only way that we can judge how Godfather Pizza was doing during the years that Mr. Cain was CEO.
The pizza business was expanding before Mr. Cain became CEO and expanded since Mr. Cain was CEO. I am not sure how we can say that the tough market conditions were responsible for Mr. Cain’s failures. One may note that Papa John’s Pizza opened with one store in 1986, the year Mr. Cain became CEO of some 600 stores. Papa John grew each year and surpassed Godfather’s pizza in sales by the time Cain resigned.
I have been unable to verify through independent research any of the things you state.
Why Pillsbury named Cain as CEO is questionable. It is Cain himself who later claimed he had turned the Philadelphia Burger Kings around. Pillsbury never released any district sales or profit figures to confirm this claim. In fact Cain must have known that it was the policy of Pillsbury not to release district sales or profits figures so nobody could check on his claim.
Pillsbury in 1989 faced a law suit for not promoting its black employees to management positions. One might suspect that Pillsbury gave Mr. Cain his positions simply to head off the coming lawsuit.
While Pillsbury may have found some tax advantages in selling Godfather’s Pizza for $50-100 million less than they had paid for it. It is hard to say that they intended this when they bought the company. Evidence appears to show that Pillsbury was enthusiastic about making profits from Godfather’s Pizza when they bought it.
I do not know that Cain or the investors sunk even one penny into Godfather’s Pizza. As a mid-level executive just starting to make approximately $100,000 a year, I doubt if Cain had very much money to invest in anything. I know that they got a bank loan, which was still outstanding some 15 years later.
I would actually like to consider how much money was invested by the hundreds of people who invested in Godfather Pizza Franchises. I assume many of them did invest their life savings. I assume many of them lost their life savings when Mr. Cain pulled their franchises from them instead of helping them to become profitable.
Jack Kemp was a football player. I do not know of any evidence he was economically shrewd or possessed any more knowledge of economics than the average football player.

A discussion of President Obama’s economic policies is beyond the scope of this article.

The 620-store chain was on the brink of bankruptcy when he arrived in 1986, he says, and he “turned it around with common-sense business principles.”

A PolitiFact examination of Godfather’s, based on interviews with industry analysts and company officials, shows Cain is largely correct. The chain wasn’t literally preparing paperwork for bankruptcy, but it was widely considered troubled. Cain changed that by uniting the franchisees, overhauling the chain’s advertising, and getting his team focused on its core mission: pizza.

Jeff Campbell is the retired Pillsbury executive who selected Cain to run Godfather’s. Reached by PolitiFact at his home in San Diego, he said there was no doubt in his mind that Cain turned Godfather’s around.

“He was the best thing that happened to Godfather’s in a long time,” Campbell said.

Cain has said that the chain returned to profitability within 14 months of his arrival. That number wasn’t possible for PolitiFact to independently confirm because the chain did not report its profits as a stand-alone unit, but industry analysts do not dispute that Cain stabilized the company.

Technomic, a research and consulting firm focused on the restaurant industry, has research data on Godfather’s going back to the 1970s. At PolitiFact’s request, vice president Darren Tristano examined the revenues and franchise numbers for Godfather’s during the time Cain headed it from 1986 to 1995.

It’s not possible to determine profitability from those numbers, but they do show Godfather’s place in the market, particularly in comparison with its competitors.

“It’s really hard from that period to find a strong positive or a strong negative. It’s more like ‘steady the course,’” Tristano said.

Still, “steady the course” isn’t bad for a company that was troubled to start out with and in an industry that’s punishingly competitive, analysts said.

Godfather’s position was particularly perilous. It wasn’t as big as chains like Pizza Hut and Domino’s, and it also had to compete with locally owned mom-and-pops in just about every market.

“They had to be very innovative to compete with the big three and with the little guys. They couldn’t rest on their laurels,” said John Correll, a Michigan-based pizza industry consultant. “For a number of years, Herman Cain and his management team were able to pull that off.”

Charles Henderson, who runs coffee kiosks in Pennsylvania, was Cain’s director of marketing back then. He says Cain is “probably the most inspirational person I’ve ever met in my life.”

“He can be mesmerizing. He’s very dynamic. I’m not slamming our current president, but Herman Cain will give a 20- or 30-minute speech extemporaneously, and certainly without teleprompters. He is without a doubt the most dynamic speaker I’ve ever heard,” Henderson said.

I have decided to use the PolitiFact article as a basis for a new blog, showing that the article erroneously checked opinions instead of facts. Unfortunately, because of my busy teaching schedule, I won’t have time till Tuesday or Wednesday to post it.

Thanks, Laura. I’ll be posting a lot more information on this topic soon. I’m still hoping that others will start a real investigation of Herman Cain’s Godfather Pizza years. There is a real gap between his rhetoric and the reality reported within the pizza and business community during those years.

Thanks to you Jay. What passes for “good business” with these guys is amazing. You’re doing great work. I’m one of those that have great regard for reality and facts.

Why reporters have not even questioned his business expertise is beyond me. I searched and found your site simply because I questioned it. I remembered local godfathers pizza back in my home state but when I looked they had all disappeared. Obviously, he hadn’t grown business at all.

I may have to include this in a blog post of my own and link to you-keep writing!

Obviously, Laura, you don’t know squat about business. He provided sales figures and they are totally worthless. A corporation’s sales can go throught the roof and still lead to bankruptcy unless there is profit. Additionally, a corporation can experience decreasing sales and increasing profits. That happens all the time when non-profitable units are trimmed from the operations.

By the way, Cain resigned Godfather’s CEO title in 1996 to serve as CEO of the National Restaurant Association. Prior to that time, he served on the National Restaurant Association’s board. However, his association with Godfather’s did not end. He retained the title of Chairman until 2002.

On May 9, 2002, Cain testified Before the Subcommittee on Select Revenue Measures of the House Committee on Ways and Means Hearing on the Extraterritorial Income Regime. At the time of that hearing, he was still Chairman of Godfather’s.

The guy that replaced him as CEO and President at Godfather’s is Cain’s friend and business partner – Ron Gartlan. Together, they raised the capital necessary for the leveraged buyout of Godfather’s. Gartlan still serves as the company’s President and CEO. Therefore, the only two people who have led Godfather’s since it was purchased in 1988 are Cain and his close friend and business partner – Ron Gartlan. They were on the hook for the $50+ million financed through Chase Bank for the leveraged buyout. Do you think Godfather’s would be in existance had they not made a profit? I really think Jay is barking up the wrong tree with this witch hunt.

By the time Cain was 32-years old, he was vice president of corporate systems and services at Pillsbury. For five years, he was Regional Vice President of Burger King Corporation. Cain is the former deputy chairman (1992–94) and chairman (1995–96) of the board of directors at the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City. He was also a member of the board of directors for Nabisco, Whirlpool, Reader’s Digest, and Hallmark Cards.

The guy has a mathematics undergrad degree from Morehouse and a masters of computer science degree from Purdue. He has been award 5 honorary doctorates and is a 1996 recipient of the Horatio Alger Association of Distinguished Americans award.

You can conclude whatever you like but Cain is a success story. He is FAR more qualified for the Presidency than the clueless one currently there. Oh wait, Obama was a “community organizer”. Yeah, that should give you a warm, fuzzy feeling.

Do you think Godfather’s would be in existance had they not made a profit? I really think Jay is barking up the wrong tree with this witch hunt.

Do you not find it interesting that in these 22 years that Cain and Ron Gartlan have run Godfather’s Pizza, they have never released a single profit and loss statement? They are the only major chain that operates that way. If they were making profits, one would expect them to release such statements.

You said originally that they invested every cent they had in the business. Now you say that they were on the hook for a 50 million dollar loan. In fact that was a another deception that Cain was involved in. The loan was most often described as for $30 or $40 million dollars. The value of the company had gone down from between $100-150 million from the time Cain took over to $30 or $40 million in just three years. Cain did not feel obligated to pay the Pillsbury stockholders back the $60-110 million dollars he lost in company value during the first three years that Pillsbury put him in charge.

His mathematics undergraduate degree and masters in computer science obviously did not qualify him to become a regional vice -president in charge of Burger Kings in the Philadelphia area. It was Pillsbury’s affirmative action program for training black executives that got him that position. You need to investigate how much pressure the civil rights groups put on Pillsbury to advance black executives in the 1980’s to understand Cain’s rapid advancement at Pillsbury. Please note that PIllsbury lost a lawsuit for not having enough black executives.

The other awards and positions came from Cain’s unique behavior in championing conservative anti-working class and anti-black politics. I will go over them in future blogs if I have time.

“Do you not find it interesting that in these 22 years that Cain and Ron Gartlan have run Godfather’s Pizza, they have never released a single profit and loss statement? They are the only major chain that operates that way. If they were making profits, one would expect them to release such statements.”

No, not at all. Perhaps you should look up the term “privately held company”. They are not required to release financial reports because they are not publicly traded. Every bit of the money invested in the company belongs to a small group of private owners.

You said originally that they invested every cent they had in the business. Now you say that they were on the hook for a 50 million dollar loan. In fact that was a another deception that Cain was involved in. The loan was for $40 million dollars. The value of the company had gone down from between $100-150 million from the time Cain took over to $40 million in just three years. Cain did not feel obligated to pay the Pillsbury stockholders back the $60-110 million dollars he lost in company value during the first three years that Pillsbury put him in charge.

I read where Cain put together a partnership and collectively they used their own finances then borrowed the remainder. It took three-months. I’ll have to go back and look for that source. Please provide backup for your outlandish claims that he lost money for Pillsbury? Cite a reference. You can’t because it’s a bunch of ca-ca. Cain supposedly cut the number of stores by half in order to make the company profitable. Everything I’ve found shows that he made the company profitable in 14 months. Three years? He was promoted to President of Godfathers and reported on April 1, 1986. He formed a partnership that bought the company in 1988. That’s not three years. Does it make any sense to you that Cain would be kept by Pillsbury if he lost shareholder money as you claim?

His mathematics undergraduate degree and masters in computer science obviously did not qualify him to become a regional vice -president in charge of Burger Kings in the Philadelphia area. It was Pillsbury’s affirmative action program for training black executives that got him that position.

Cite a reference for this. You can’t. It came right out of your anal orifice.

You need to investigate how much pressure the civil rights division of the Justice Department put on Pillsbury to advance black executives in the 1980′s to understand Cain’s rapid advancement at Pillsbury. Please note that Pillsbury was sued in 1989 for not having enough black executives.

I don’t need to investigate anything unless there is a reason to do so. Your unsubstantiated claims are an epic fail.

The other awards and positions came from Cain’s unique behavior in championing conservative anti-working class and anti-black politics.

Boy, you are the champion of making things up. Where is your evidence for this? Ah, the tired old class warfare. Conservatives are anti-working class? Baloney! Please cite something that shows Cain is “anti-black”. Why, because he doesn’t use the victim mantra as a crutch?

Jay, you are really reaching and it unbecoming for someone that considers themself educated.

I especially find it interesting that the bama commenter believes Cain would make a good president. Even if we say Cain was a “success”-he certainly got rich in his own right-a president is entirely different. Herman Cain took the pizza chain from #5 to…..near oblivion. Countless jobs lost. The nearly 50% less revenue means of course that countless other suppliers also lost revenue and jobs. Cain in 1987 said he would compete with the big pizza chains and by that. He meant he wouldn’t and the chain dropped from 5th to 11th. Now, it’s easier to close stores than actually loook at them and make decisions about what is wrong with them. It’s easier to fire everyone than it is to find the few bad employees. Godfathers was not always unprofitable(if it was when he took over) so why not try to find the reasons, the problems? That would be a good businessman.

Now, let’s translate that to being US President.So, some commenters think success would be if US GDP were cut in half and US status fell. Rather than compete and fight for our #1 status, it would be a “daunting” task and we would be happy with place #11 or #33 or whatever, As long as the CEO/president and a few others got wealthy. Call it “success”. Maybe that is indeed was passes for business and government acumen for certain folks. Even if it’s a struggle, I don’t want a third world United States or a third world pizza. (There used to be pre-Cain Godfathers in my home state and it was delicious-I understand from friends in the South that they cut the toppings in half and it’s awful.)

Personally, I don’t in any way consider that success. But isn’t he supposed to be one of the “job creators”? How do you weave that back into the myth?

The case was brought in 1984. Cain was hired by Pillsbury in 1977. The case was not settled until 1990, two years after Cain left Pillsbury.

This information, in fact, contradicts your ridiculous assertion. It appears Cain was hired by Pillsbury then rapidly promoted during a time when they were accused of practicing racial discrimination.

It’s obvious your only motivation is to smear the man. I didn’t come to this site as a Cain supporter. I was favoring Romney but you’ve convinced me I should switch to Cain. The notion of a successful black conservative obviously pisses you people off.

Deal with it.

Mabone v. Pillsbury Co.

Closed Case
Race Discrimination in Employment
Settled in 1990 for $3.6 million and Injunctive Relief

Sprenger + Lang settled this race discrimination class action against Pillsbury with a four-year Consent Decree providing extensive injunctive relief and cash payouts totaling $3.6 million. At the time, it was the largest race discrimination settlement or judgment in the State of Minnesota. The class consisted of all black current and former salaried employees of Pillsbury between 1984 and 1990. Of the total monetary settlement, the Consent Decree required Pillsbury to use $1.76 million to create a Cultural Diversity and Training Fund. The purpose of the fund was to create and operate a cultural diversity department, cultural diversity programs, cultural diversity training, and individual cultural diversity awards and to recruit, hire and support a newly created position of Training
Director. Another $600,000 of the total was allocated to four separate funds to further the employment and career opportunities of minority employees at Pillsbury: the Career Development Fund, the Cash/Stipend Grant, the Dependent Tuition Scholarship Fund and the Training Fund. The Consent Decree also required Pillsbury to give three annual cultural diversity awards to employees worth a combined total of $75,000. The Consent Decree further established minority hiring and utilization goals for salaried employees. Finally, the settlement distributed monetary awards among current and terminated employees pursuant to a formula.

Thank you for this good information. I did not know that the case was brought in 1984. This explains why Pillsbury made Cain the head of Godfather’s pizza in 1986. It was to help Pillsbury win the law suit. Cain got his master’s degree in computers at age 32 in 1977. He was hired that year by Pillsbury. In 1983 he was put in charge of some 400 burger kings in the Philadelphia region. Actually Godfather Pizzas makes far less per store than Burger Kings. Being put in charge of 720 Godfather Pizzas is not necessarily a promotion. It should probably be seen as more of a sideways step. Cain knew nothing about running Burger Kings when promoted and knew nothing about running Pizza restaurants. He was however Black and Pillsbury desperately needed black executives to avoid law suits over its discriminatory policies up to that point.

You say you have a PhD. If so, did you make such unsubstantiated claims in your writing assignments and doctoral thesis?

You know nothing about went on at Pillsbury but are somehow drawing conclusions as if they are factual.

First, you claim Cain was hired because of affirmative action. Proven false, you now make another claim that he was promoted from to Regional Vice President of Burger King solely because of a discrimination lawsuit. And you arrive at that conclusion based on what? It’s obvious that your objective is to smear this man even if it means making things up.

After receiving a bachelor of arts degree in mathematics and a master of science degree in computer science (1971), Cain worked as a civilian ballistics analyst for the Navy Department, responsible for developing fire control systems for ships and fighter aircraft.

Catch this part of the title, Jay, “analyst”. I have been one (I now lead them) and it requires the ability to take often complex issues, simply them, then reach sensible conclusions.

Subsequently, Cain became a business analyst for Cola-Cola Co. There’s that “analyst” title again.

In 1977, he joined Pillsbury Co. as director of analysis in its restaurant and foods group. The word “analysis”. Are you seeing any trends here?

I’m using deductive logic but as Director of Analysis for the Restaurants and Foods Group, I assume Cain would have analyzed and/or reviewed the analysis of all of Pillsbury restaurants and food groups in great detail. One would expect that he knew more about the operations of those businesses, in minute detail, than anyone else in the Company. Had he previously flipped a burger or rolled pizza dough? Probably not but according to his book he routinely did so while leading those companies.

Herman Cain understands ‘real business,’ says former Burger King CEO who was Cain’s supervisor during that time.

The former boss of Republican presidential hopeful Herman Cain said today that Cain is a good businessman, but said he’s not relying on any politician to fix the country’s woes.

“There’s something to be said for having a candidate for that office who has actually run a real business in a real economy,” said former Burger King CEO Jeff Campbell, who spoke at an Entrepreneurs’ Organization event at the Grande Colonial in La Jolla.

Cain reported to Campbell in the 1980s as Burger King’s regional manager for Philadelphia. Campbell promoted the promising executive to the helm of Godfather’s Pizza in 1986 after that company was acquired by Burger King’s parent. As a result, he knows that Cain has solid business experience.

“This guy made a payroll. This guy had to solve problems. This guy had to deal with and energize people, the same kind of thing you guys do every day,” Campbell said. “We don’t have enough of that kind of thinking represented, and that’s what it’s going to take to get us out of the mess we’re in – train wreck.”

You guys go ahead with your ad hominem lynching of this man. He is an American success story. In your attempt to besmirch his character, you are revealing an ugly dark side of your own.

“You may “feel” that it is unconstitutional but the Supreme Court says it isn’t.”

And in other cases, courts have decided the opposite in regard to openly religious schools. We will see. 5-4 is no mandate and it would not the the first time the US Supreme court was later overturned. The 5 were predictable “conservatives”. It’s also telling that the most “liberal” members have decided on the side of individual rights more often. It seems partisanship takes precedence over thought. In Kentucky vs King, it was little noticed in right wing circles that Justice Ginsburg was the only dissenter. The only one to uphold the 4th amendment right of the people over police. But she’s liberal and you don’t want to listen to that. Very clever of the right wing machine.

“Officers may break in if they hear sounds and suspect that evidence is being destroyed, the justices say in an 8-1 decision. Justice Ginsburg dissents.”

But I digress…my point is we are discussing and analyzing. As a ‘former” analyst you must know there are many types. Analysts are often paid by the industry and it seems intelligent to question the judgement of someone paid by the owner of the product.

You could google Koch industries, Pillsbury, Burger King and match up those connections. Or you can accept that corporations have more rights than individuals,.

He was a mathematician with the U.S. Navy surface weapons center from 1967 to 1973 according to “Godfather’s Gets New Boss” Omaha World-Herald (NE) – Friday, April 4, 1986). What did he really do there?

Cain won a scholarship to Atlanta’s Morehouse College, where he earned a math degree. After graduation in 1967 he took a job in Virginia as a civilian mathematician for the Navy. “Target, 2,000 yards! East by northeast … do-da-do-da-do-da … They’d punch this stuff into the fire control computer and the computer would take the conditions into consideration, aim the guns and they’d go `boom,”‘ Cain said in describing his indoor-Navy career. “We derived the ballistics that would go into the fire control computers, and that required mathematical skills. It paid $7,729 a year, and that was a whole lot of money back then.”
The other attraction was that civil service had an educational assistance program, and after three years Cain was granted leave and admitted to Purdue to study computer science.
“I wanted to go to a very reputable school because the quality of my education had always been questioned,” he said.
That was true despite the fact that Morehouse has produced many black leaders in various fields. Nevertheless, Cain recalled that his government supervisor was surprised by his stellar performance at Purdue.
By 1973 he had advanced to a higher position and a $20,000 salary…

(Omaha World-Herald (NE) – Tuesday, June 23, 1987)

He was not responsible for responsible for developing fire control systems for ships and fighter aircraft as you say. He was simply doing crunching numbers.

As far as his work with Coca Cola,
. I went with the Coca-Cola Co. in Atlanta, working with the corporate management science group. It was a situation where I basically had to apply the skills I had acquired as a mathematician to a totally different environment.
I was the group manager of management science. Reporting to me at that time — there was no one. It was a title: group manager, management science. While I was with the government, I had about 15 people reporting to me, but at Coke 1 was a one-man, high-level analyst type.
It was four years before I left Coke and went to the Pillsbury Co. in Minneapolis as a manager of management science. I started out with about six people reporting to me; (“Moving Out And Up to Executive Offices
Computerworld,” December 5, 1983).

It seems at Coca-cola, he had nobody reporting to him. He was a one man analyst in a company with about 50,000 employees. He studied management not business. As manager of management science, he apparently did not advance in his four years at Coca cola. Here is a definition of Management Science from Informs.online:

Here is the definition of a manager analyst from the bureau of labor statistics: Management analysts, often referred to as management consultants in private industry, analyze and propose ways to improve an organization’s structure, efficiency, or profits.

It is impossible to say what problems he worked on at Coca Cola. All that we can know is that working alone he did not gain management experience or experience in running a business.

Cain says this in the Computerworld article about his experience at Pillsbury:

I started out with about six people reporting to me; then I was promoted to director of business analysis and had about 15 people reporting to me — management science people, mathematicans and computer scientists, statisticians and one economist. We were in charge of economic analysis and forecasting. My group provided analytical problem-solving skills for the company. We developed the forecasting models used for all consumer products.
At that time, Pillsbury had a Honeywell, Inc. 6000 series. We were more model builders than systems builders. After a year and a half, I was promoted to director of information systems for one of the divisions. There I was going from a management science environment to an information systems environment, not because I had all that much hands-on experience in computer science, but that’s where Pillsbury made a conscious decision to put me because I had the technical background and a degree in information systems.

The Honeywell Inc. 6000 probably had as much computing power as the average $20 calculator does today. Notice that he was a director of information systems for one of the divisions, not all of Pillsbury as you suggest. PIllsbury was a large corporation and could have had dozens of divisions. What does a director of information systems actually do? According to job profiles (http://www.jobprofiles.org/compsysdirector.htm)

The director of information systems is solely responsible for the flow of information throughout the business as well as ensuring that all staff understands how to correctly access and enter data into the system. This may include databases, spreadsheet information, templates, emails, or even accessing the internet or local area networks

Basically, he taught people how to use computer programs like databases, spreadsheets and email.

According to a 1987 newspaper article (“In a short time he’s turned it around”
Star Tribune: Newspaper of the Twin Cities – Monday, July 20, 1987)

In 1978 Cain became director of business analysis, studying expansion opportunities and evaluating situations for the company’s restaurant and consumer food groups. Two years later he was named a vice president and in 1981 placed in the sensitive and high-profile job of coordinating Pillsbury’s move into its new downtown headquarters.
In that role Cain caught the eye of William Spoor, then Pillsbury’s chairman. Spoor,

Cain was now 37 years old. He had never managed anything except for helping to coordinate a company move from one headquarters into another.

The quality of Cain’s work in his first managerial position running some 400 Burger Kings in the Philadelphia Area and the falsehoods he later told about it will be discussed in a separate future article.

It takes a department with 5000 employees to administer the Pell Grant program? Poppycock!

We didn’t need the DOE for over 200 years of our nation’s history and suddenly they are essential? There are any number of agencies that could admininster that program.

“His positions on education seem to indicate more privatization while taxpayers guarantee funds and he wants schools to have a religious bent.”

He does favor vouchers and so do I. Which is more important, the eductaion of our kids or maintaining the public education bureaucracy? I think many have a vested interest in the bureacracy and seek to shield it from scrutiny and accountability. Their interest is really not the education of students but self preservation.

“I will say part of the problem I have with Cain and other republicans is this evangelical religious view on everything. I have no problem with Pell grants helping smart students go to college. I do have an enormous problem with religion based education that taxpayers fund. I believe it is unconstitutional for tax revenue to be used for religious schools. I feel equally about this issue whether it’s the taliban or evangelicals.”

I would agree with you if people were forced to attend a school with a religious heritage but what if they choose to attend that school?

You may “feel” that it is unconstitutional but the Supreme Court says it isn’t.

In a 5-4 ruling, in 2002, the U.S. Supreme Court said the school voucher program does not constitute the establishment of religion. The much-anticipated ruling on the pilot project involving inner-city Cleveland schools came on the final day of the Supreme Court term, which began in October.
The ruling reverses an appeals court decision, which struck down the program because nearly all the families receiving the tax-supported state tuition scholarships attend Catholic schools in Cleveland.

But the Supreme Court majority said the parents have a sufficient range of choices among secular and religious schools that Ohio’s voucher plan does not violate the First Amendment prohibition against the establishment of religion.
“We believe the program challenged here is a program of true private choice,” wrote Chief Justice William Rehnquist. “The Ohio program is neutral in all respects toward religion. It is part of a general and multifaceted undertaking by the State of Ohio to provide educational opportunities to the children of a failed school district.”

Vouchers use taxpayer money to underwrite private or parochial school tuition. Proponents say they offer students a choice between good and failing schools.

Should we go with the law or refrain from doing so based on your hostility toward Christianity?

We have an old saing in the Army. “Don’t pee down my leg then try to convince me that it’s raining”.

I do not for one moment believe that you or Jay participate here in order to analyze or to question. You are here to demonize and discredit someone whose ideas on governance run counter to yours.

It would not matter to either of you what Cain achieved nor is the truth essential in your political crusade.

“Analysts are often paid by the industry and it seems intelligent to question the judgement of someone paid by the owner of the product. You could google Koch industries, Pillsbury, Burger King and match up those connections.”

If you have something, do your own research and post it with a reference. I posted and sourced what Cain’s supervisor at Burger King said about him. You read his record of accomplishment.

Perhaps in your eyes a person can rise from poverty to achieve corporate success and ownership without any expertise, leadership, or sound judgment whatsoever but that is certainly not a view grounded in reality.

I assure you both, people who are far more clever and resourceful than either of you have long been investigating Cain’s background looking for the smallest crack and have come up with precious little.

” Or you can accept that corporations have more rights than individuals,.
It seems you have, good luck.”

There you go again, with overreaching, wildly irrational, unsubstantiated claims. That is obviously the modus operandi for both of you.

Point to one reference, anything that suggests or even hints that I believe corporations have MORE rights than individuals.

Corporations are managed, operated by and owned by individuals. They are not the seven-headed beast of Revelations as some want to blame and rail against for their own misfortune, lack of success, and personal shortcomings.

Look, you and Jay get back to your demonizing and discrediting. I will no longer interrupt your malicious orgy.

There is nothing of any substance over here whatsoever. What a waste of time.

Thanks for your service, I’ve always had high regard for government employees. everyone deserves a pension like a government pension.

Please answer this question, I asked before-I’m saying if he is considered a successful businessman,

I’m still wondering how the business skill set translates to US president….would success would be if US GDP were cut in half and US status fell? Is the Us President underpaid then? Rather than compete and fight for our #1 status, it would be a “daunting” task and we would be happy with place #11 or #33 or whatever, As long as the CEO/president and a few others got wealthy. Call it “success”. Maybe that is indeed was passes for business and government acumen for certain folks. Even if it’s a struggle, I don’t want a third world United States or a third world pizza. (There used to be pre-Cain Godfathers in my home state and it was delicious-I understand from friends in the South that they cut the toppings in half and it’s awful.)

Personally, I don’t in any way consider that success. But isn’t he supposed to be one of the “job creators”? How do you weave that back into the myth???????

The Department of Education…Many are under the impression that the Department of Education was first created in 1979. That is not true. The first Department of Education was established on March 2, 1867 (14 Stat. 434). However, it did not have a secretary at its helm like other departments (e.g., the Department of War.) Instead, it had a commissioner. Long history….boring I’m sure. But, there it is.

Good point indeed. I was moved to look a little more. People like to point out he realized the American Dream and I was curious how it managed it. We know he’s dead set against government help.

Herman graduated from Morehouse College. Here’s a few ironic stats:

Percent of Students on Financial Aid 97%
Percent of Students on Federal Aid 58%
Average Amout of Federal Aid Received $3,684.00
Percent of Students on Student Loans 87%
Average Amount of Student Loan Aid Received $9,625.00

Well, Laura, are you making the big leap here? Herman Cain must have gotten “guv-ment help” because, after all, he’s black and you know they can’t afford no college”?

If a conservative had made the same rash leap, the racist card would be pulled immediately.

It may interest you to know that Herman Cain was salutatorian of his high school class and was awarded an academic scholarship to Morehouse. He did not live on campus but commuted to Morehouse on a city bus each day (Source: CEO of SELF, by Herman Cain, p. 9-10 , Aug 1, 2001).

Do you people on the left source anything or just make crap us as you go?

From what i’ve read about his positions on education, he is not opposed to federal tuition assistance for college kids. He is opposed to federal intervention in local educational matters.

Personally, I would eliminate the U.S. Department of Education. It was created by Jimmy Carter in 1979 as a reward to the NEA who supported him (and the Democrats) politically. If education is indeed a local matter, what purpose does it serve other than another layer of bureacracy through which to filter federal money? DOE certainly siphons off a portion of that.

I was alluding to the fact that (from what we’ve been told), he came from a “poor” family. It seems likely they could not afford private college tuition. Yes, he could be in the 3% that don’t get financial aid at Morehouse. An alternative view might be that his family was not poor at all and he had no need for financial aid. But, there seems to be a 97% chance that he received financial aid.

“From what i’ve read about his positions on education, he is not opposed to federal tuition assistance for college kids. He is opposed to federal intervention in local educational matters…..Personally, I would eliminate the U.S. Department of Education.”

You realize that Pell Grants are administered by the Dept of Education? It’s very likely Cain received Pell grants-they are mainly for those that have financial need (under $30,000 income now).

And of course, he might also have used Federal Guaranteed student loans. Also the Dept of Education.

His positions on education seem to indicate more privatization while taxpayers guarantee funds and he wants schools to have a religious bent. I will say part of the problem I have with Cain and other republicans is this evangelical religious view on everything. I have no problem with Pell grants helping smart students go to college. I do have an enormous problem with religion based education that taxpayers fund. I believe it is unconstitutional for tax revenue to be used for religious schools. I feel equally about this issue whether it’s the taliban or evangelicals.

It doesn’t look like a robust turn-around. Maybe if he had climbed back to 800+ stores, it could be viewed as a turnaround. Maybe if he had done the 9.99 plan, he could have got there. What I remember is that they nearly had a gourmet pizza, but the market wouldn’t bear it, and more people found Domino’s a better deal. It seemed like a gamble on expensive pizza becoming popular.

Yes Wattsyurz,
I think if there had really been a turn-around he would be citing all kinds of facts and figures – we were losing 10 million a year and two years later we were making 100 million. The fact that somebody with a degree in mathematics isn’t giving us the math tells us something.

I have been listening to Herman Cain for a while and knowing quite a bit about business, I have been thinking to myself “this guy is just a clown. He can’t be serious and even less being a genius businessman”. So I finally took the time to google (big effort, I know) herman cain’s business past and thankfully found your site.

Jay, great job in digging. If you want to do something else than philo you may have a
future in consulting, research or even journalism.

To some of the other commenters, agreed, sales are just sales, not profit. But this is more than anyone else has provided and during the Herman Cain years, sales and sales growth still did matter quite a bit as an indicator. Same Store Sales is actually one of the key indicators in those business (restaurants and stores) and here, it’s flattish at best.

So while indeed, we can’t tell if he is a failure with just sales, looking at those numbers I can tell with a fairly high confidence level that he is probably not the great businessman he claims to be.

Finally, when you look at the company’s website which seems to have been designed in 1957, one really wonders if they have any penny to invest or if they are even alive.

seriously people left or right: would it reaaaally be the first time a public figure (emerging out of nowhere btw) blatantly lies about some easily checkable part of their past? As stupid as it sounds, they lie ALL the time about their military service, business achievements, job creation records, faithfullness to their 3rd wives etc. So yes, my money is on Cain being a fraud.

Some of you may find this interesting. Herman Cain is , and has been a member in high standing with ALEC, American Legislative Exchange Council.

Few have ever heard of it, but the American Legislative Exchange Council, or ALEC, is the ultimate smoke filled back room.

On the surface, ALEC’s membership is mostly comprised of thousands of state legislators.

Each pays a nominal membership fee in order to attend ALEC retreats and receive model legislation. ALEC’s corporate contributors, on the other hand, pay a king’s ransom to gain access to legislators and distribute their corporate-crafted legislation.

So, while the membership appears to be public sector, the bankroll is almost entirely private sector.

In fact, public sector membership dues account for only around one percent of ALEC’s annual revenues.

ALEC claims to be nonpartisan, but in fact its free-market, pro-business mission is clear.

The result has been a consistent pipeline of special interest legislation being funneled into state capitols.

Thanks to ALEC, 826 bills were introduced in the states in 2009 and 115 were enacted into law.

Behind the scenes at ALEC, the nuts and bolts of lobbying and crafting legislation is done by large corporate defense firm Shook, Hardy & Bacon.

A law firm with strong ties to the tobacco and pharmaceutical industries, it has long used ALEC’s ability to get a wide swath of state laws enacted to further the interests of its corporate clients.

ALEC’s campaigns and model legislation have run the gamut of issues, but all have either protected or promoted a corporate revenue stream, often at the expense of consumers. For example, ALEC has worked on behalf of:

• Oil companies to undermine climate change proponents;

• Pharmaceutical manufacturers, arguing that states should be banned from importing prescription drugs;

• Telecom i rms to block local authorities from of ering cheap or free municipally-owned broadband;

Jay – I think Bamacharm really embarrased you with his analysis. His facts, research, and arguments stand head and shoulders above yours and other’s innuendos. I have a philosophy degree (besides an engineering degree) and the most critical part of that course of study was constructing coherent arguments and analysis. In this respect I am embarrased for you.

Clearly when using an agenda as a starting point it becomes necessary to discard any information that does not fit your worldview.

Interesting. I found Bamacharm’s information helpful in telling me that the racial discrimination lawsuit again Pillsbury started in 1984. This explained to me one reason why Pillsbury kept him on as manager of Godfather’s when he was doing such a poor job and losing money for them. The other interesting thing was that his own Godfather’s board of directors forced Cain to resign in 1996 amid conflict of interests charges. I did not know that. Most of the other information was irrelevant, silly, name-calling and/or so speculative that I did not see a point to answering.

The drop in the number of stores doesn’t show the rebound. If this was a successful business, there should have been an advancement in the footprint to gain market share. This was expensive pizza, and I haven’t had a pie from there since the ’80s. To people doubting that Godfather’s was a failure, have you had been to one lately?

The information provided by jay proves nothing and as others have pointed out are very poorly constructed and biased attempts to discredit a hard working businessman that has done very well in the world of business and free enterprise.
The number of stores is not an indication of success or failure as we can readily see with many other organizations such as Home Depot, Lowes, Starbucks and Burger King. The goal is profitability and brand recognition while hopefully expanding the company base. Also, sales numbers as another pointed out do not show profit and loss. I don’t know many organizations that will openly post they P & L’s for all to see. Some of the larger publicly traded companies do but not all. Cutting the number of locations down to bring costs and remove unprofitable locations is apart of good business and adjusting for optimal market saturation.
George, I agree and Bamacharm you ate Jay’s lunch and Laura you need to find another mentor in the area of business and finances because Jay is clueless and consequently so are you. .
I love people that have not ever owned or run a business and are “experts” or “know a lot about business”. the blind trying to lead the blind is an understatement.

I do not like to engage in eristics. Teaching people to think is my profession. I do not like to give samples of my wares for free.

You say “I don’t know many organizations that will openly post they [sic] P &; L’s for all to see. Some of the larger publicly traded companies do but not all.” Actually, virtually all larger publicly traded companies release Profit and loss statements on a quarterly basis. We know that Godfather’s Pizza made a profit through 1984 because they released quarterly profit and loss statements till then. The refusal to release profit and loss statements started when the company stopped making profits. It is natural to assume that if the company had started making profits again under Cain, he would have been more than happy to release such statements. It could only have increased the value of the company to Pillsbury and later to his colleague owner-managers.

The facts remain the facts. Candidate Cain has based his political career on his successful career managing Godfather’s Pizza. The only statistical evidence in the public domain is that he was not successful as far as traditional standards of making large profits for corporate owners. He only seems to have self-profited by the enormous publicity he generated for himself. If you have evidence that Godfather’s Pizzas did make profits from 1986 to 1996 when he was CEO, please release it. If not, please ask Cain to release his profit and loss statements so that we may judge his fitness in this regard.

On the other hand, if you are proposing that we abandon the measurement of management ability by measurement of yearly profits and losses and replace it by a different standard; for example, measurement of the publicity generated by the CEO for her/himself, please explain the advantages of this type of economy.

What I find amusing here is Jay has provided some easily found facts and some discretionary opinions.
As an accountant and investor, I can agree that sales figures alone don’t add to anything. When looked at as a whole, it does give you a clear picture of what was happening, especially when looking at the financials of Pillsbury for that time period. The bottom line in that questioning is anyone who has experience in evaluating companies for investment would not go anywhere near Godfather’s at that time with the information provided. Period.

As far as honorary degrees? Please, you either earn one or you don’t. Just because you are given an honorary degree doesn’t mean you know anything about the subject, just that you know someone. And a computer science degree in 1971? Seriously? Look up computers from 1971. That’s a worth while degree from that time period.

Another side of the story to all who are trying to defend his character is his stint on the board of directors at Aquila when the class action lawsuit filed for violating a 37-year-old federal law requiring that employers manage employees retirement programs responsibly.
Joining with Enron and others would ultimately wipe out 94% of Aquila’s stock value between 1999 and 2004. The company’s employee retirement fund, overseen by the board of directors, lost more than $200 million in 2002.

As chair of the compensation committee, Cain also saw fit to dole out $30 million in bonuses, not including stock options, to the top five execs at Aquila in 2002, with the company’s stock plummeting. A month after the Kansas City Star reported on the hefty bonuses in July 2002, the company laid off 500 employees, and the losses to employees holding company stock had reached hundreds of millions of dollars.

In July of 2007 they settled for $10.5 million to “avoid protracted litigation”. Cain left the board of directors in 2008.

Hi Christopher, thanks for the good points. I have heard about the Aquila scandal, but I have not investigated it. There is so many disturbing things in Cain’s past and the misleading accounts he gives that it will be months until I have time to get to recent stuff like Aquila. Cain is kind of an anti-King Midas, everything he touches seems to turn to dung.

A vote for Cain is a vote for none of the above. IMHO – he’s on shaky ground and will not succeed. Lately all he’s doing is promoting 9-9-9 which he can’t correctly explain, his pro-life stance, selling his books and doing lectures. If he’s up against Obama, a third party candidate like Ron Paul – who has more guts than any of them will win. That wouldn’t be bad for the country

This debate of Godfathers Pizza chain sales vs. earnings and the like is ridiculous. GP was a $250 million-ish company. That’s very very small potatoes. There’s a gazillion CEOs of company’s this size. The idea that experience running a small time national pizza franchise (and then a restaurant trade organization — read “special interest”) is a qualification to be President of the United States is ludicrous. The 2011 Federal budget is over 3 trillion dollars. So you are seriously arguing that being a pizza chain manager is a qualification for working that ?

Appreciative of several remarks made by several posters, most certainly those of Jay. And Keelaay’s last statement encapsulates a great truism.

Take away all the back-and-forth on so much of the fiduciary subject matter and candidly stated, Herman “Don King” Cain is simply a raging joke and pox pari passu upon America. The lip-licking ebonics-ridden empty suit barking crow shuck and jive piece of ignoramus maximus window dressing couldn’t run lemonade stand, much less a country. From a sociological iposition alone the impact of Cain being nominated and elected would be ruinous or has no one paid attention on that over the past three years (CCW permits up by over 9,700%). By the way the same holds true for the other lying fraud hustler Allen West. Caveat on this con artist, too.

Hey Herman, the Creeper from Jeepers Creepers called and he wants his hat back now that you’re out of the race.

Using the made up inflationary increase, all business during the 90’s were losing. That wasn’t the case, many businesses expanded their online presence, expanded their hours, expanded their marketing to meet people on their phones. Well if Ron Paul supporters would only leave out there ill-logic, like the 90’s were a time of High-Inflationary Pricing, maybe, just maybe someone would take them seriously.

How about crunching these numbers, Take Ron Paul’s 2010 earmark totals and equally give the same to all 435 districts, then give that annual amount to them for 24 years, the total spent by derogatory spending, $4.16 Zillion dollars, with a Z.