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Top Entrance Issues

I am using top entrances, with a telescoping roof that has a 9" opening, with a 3/8" shim around the inside of the top. My bottoms are the normal design, with a screened bottom. Most of the season, the bottoms have been closed off, with the bees only allowed to use the top entrance.

Some questions:

How are you feeding, only using top entrances? I like the idea of feeding through the inner cover hole with a deep around the feeder, but that doesn't work with the top entrance.

If I want to feed, can I just close off the top, open the bottom, and expect them to adjust? Does that do any harm?

If you have any photos of your setup that is working out well, it would be nice to see some ideas. There is too much snow where my hives are to use anything except top entrances, at least for the winter season.

Thanks in advance,
John

John Sampson-Tucker County, WV
Starting over. >Back up to 9 hives! All cutouts and swarms.

>If I want to feed, can I just close off the top, open the bottom, and expect them to adjust?

No. It will take them days to even start to adjust and more than a week to work it all out.

> Does that do any harm?

Blocking the top when that is their current entrance? Yes it will stop all traffic for a day or two and most traffic for a week or more.

>If you have any photos of your setup that is working out well, it would be nice to see some ideas. There is too much snow where my hives are to use anything except top entrances, at least for the winter season.

When I use a miller feeder, I put a shim on each side (to make the entrance) and if there is access at one end, I put that end at the back. I also often break off a shim to 2" short of the width of the entrance and put that in for a reducer. When I use a frame feeder I have a reducer that blocks all but the last 2" of the entrance and the frame feeder is on the opposite side from the feeder. When I use a jar feeder I reduce the entrance to 2" or less.

Re: Top Entrance Issues

Michael,

I took your website advice about granular sugar feeding to be more of a winter emergency practice. My research has led me to believe that they could better process syrup, as long as the weather was above 50 degrees. All of my hives are cutouts and swarms from this year, and all seem light. Two of them have almost no stores. I was planning on boosting them up with syrup now, and using the dry sugar method for carrying them over if needed.

Is this methodology wrong?

John Sampson-Tucker County, WV
Starting over. >Back up to 9 hives! All cutouts and swarms.

Re: Top Entrance Issues

John,
I'm not Michael, but that's what I do with late season swarms or cutouts.
I've never had disease or mite problems, and survivability is acceptable: usually the ones that don't make it are the ones where I knew I was "pushing it" by hiving them too late or with a very small population.

Where cutouts are concerned, I wait til spring if they're not going to be able to build up well.

Re: Top Entrance Issues

You have to use them with a migratory cover if you're not using them with an empty super, but they work fine. The slot is routed out 3/8" deep. The screened hole is sized so a standard Mason jar feeder fits.

If you have to close them off, you can just flip them over.

One advantage I discovered for these inner cover/entrances is that you can work the hive from the front and still be out of the bees' flight path, because the slot is on the side.

Re: Top Entrance Issues

Does having a feed jar 3" from the entrance relief cut promote more robbing?

I've used a similar arrangement, but placing a shim under a migratory top for bee space, and found a greater frequency of robbing.
Maybe a tighter space over the bars, as it looks like this has, will make a difference.

Re: Top Entrance Issues

Originally Posted by Beregondo

Does having a feed jar 3" from the entrance relief cut promote more robbing?

I've used a similar arrangement, but placing a shim under a migratory top for bee space, and found a greater frequency of robbing.
Maybe a tighter space over the bars, as it looks like this has, will make a difference.

I haven't seen any robbing, but (a) I'm a beginner and (b) I didn't have to feed much, because there was nectar available when I hived my nucs. I fed for a week or so just to bridge the bees over to a nectar diet, since I assumed the nucs were fed sugar heavily.

I also closed down the entrance with a twig, and they are only 3/8" high, so probably easy to defend.

Re: Top Entrance Issues

Originally Posted by Beregondo

John,
I'm not Michael, but that's what I do with late season swarms or cutouts.
I've never had disease or mite problems, and survivability is acceptable: usually the ones that don't make it are the ones where I knew I was "pushing it" by hiving them too late or with a very small population.

Where cutouts are concerned, I wait til spring if they're not going to be able to build up well.

That sounds reasonable. I just came across some freebie frame feeders, and will fill them fill of dry sugar and see what happens. I have tried to avoid doing cutouts late, but most of them get passed on to me from Orkin, and by the time people get annoyed enough to call Orkin, there is no talking them into waiting. Only once in 10 this year have I been able to convince someone that waiting is better.

John Sampson-Tucker County, WV
Starting over. >Back up to 9 hives! All cutouts and swarms.

Re: Top Entrance Issues

You have to use them with a migratory cover if you're not using them with an empty super, but they work fine. The slot is routed out 3/8" deep. The screened hole is sized so a standard Mason jar feeder fits.

If you have to close them off, you can just flip them over.

One advantage I discovered for these inner cover/entrances is that you can work the hive from the front and still be out of the bees' flight path, because the slot is on the side.

This is a much better setup that I had planned on trying. I will build some of these tonight. Thanks for the photo.

John Sampson-Tucker County, WV
Starting over. >Back up to 9 hives! All cutouts and swarms.

Re: Top Entrance Issues

With a top entrance only, how do you get rainwater from collecting at the bottom of the hive? I'm in South Florida and it rains a lot, some beekeepers slope their hives towards the bottom entrance to ensure the water drains out. How do you do that if you only have a top entrance?

Re: Top Entrance Issues

Originally Posted by Mr_Clean

With a top entrance only, how do you get rainwater from collecting at the bottom of the hive? I'm in South Florida and it rains a lot, some beekeepers slope their hives towards the bottom entrance to ensure the water drains out. How do you do that if you only have a top entrance?

Most hive reducers (that folks turn to block off the lower entrance) are not watertight.

You shouldn't be getting a lot of water inside, unless your covers leak pretty bad.

Re: Top Entrance Issues

With just a top entrance and a closed off bottom entrance you should still have your hive sloped towards the front so that rain water can't go backwards back under the entrance block and lay on the bottom board under the boxes. Like rhaldridge said, you shouldn't be getting that much water to be concerned about unless your top leaks bad anyways. If you are going to run exclusively top entrances, why not do away with the standard bottom board and just let the hive set on a piece of plywood the same dimensions as a box, with a 3/8" rim all the way around on top side, and a couple rails attached to the bottom side for it to set on your hive stand.

Re: Top Entrance Issues

I have a small bottom entrance as well as the top entrance. It's only 1/4" most of the year and opened up more in hot weather. Found it greatly improved air flow in the hive with little condensation in the top of the hive over winter. In summer there is also very little bearding in hot weather. Also found the bottom of the hive is cleaner with the small bottom entrance as well.