Do you love your new Hercules set? Can't get enough of FansProject's items? Upset that you bought a knock off when you thought you were getting an original? Use this forum to tell everyone your thoughts about unlicensed and knock off TF products.

It's not unreasonable to hold hope that with the recent release of Encore Fortress Maximus, that his rival Scorponok will also see a release.

However it seems that other, less scrupulous parties seem to be getting one to market sooner if Toymoda is to be believed. In addition to a healthy stock of Transformers-related items, Toymoda also has several knockoff replications of other G1 figures, such as Cyclonus, Shockwave and a Computron giftset. Scorponok has recently been added to its system with a release date of July.

Seibertron.com will pass on more information as more information becomes available.

thanks for keeping us informed. I'm sure there's a few people who want to know which exact websites to avoid buying these from.

assembling a Neo-G1/TF:TM cast. Please PM if you have (or know of) the following at a reasonable price: Classics or Henkei Astrotrain, Sunstreaker, Sideswipe, or 3rd Party iGear Ratchet and Ironhide. Also looking for Universe Repugnus and Overbite, Frostbite and Longhorn and any Webdiver toys.

And if they take the next logical step of KOing Black Zarak, but with the insidious, unscrupulous difference of switching to gold plastic that actually stays solid instead of crumbling to dust like good, honest, legit, GPS-prone Takara Black Zarak should, why then we'll REALLY stay the hell away from any vendors that would dare preserve representations of toys whose legitimate companies either can't find their molds or just don't care enough to reverse mold so future generations can know them from more than just rumors and photos *COUGH* steal HasTak's I.P.

There always ends up being a slight difference in the package no matter how close they copy the original. Someone will get a guide up soon enough so they won't fool anyone who does a little homework. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go help Boris and Natasha destroy the U.S. economy with counterfeit cereal box tops so Kim Jong-Un can have a monopoly on atomic-powered roller skates, distracting him from his ICBMs. To Carob Island!

yes!...these people must be stopped if the sanctity and purity of our beloved hobby is to be preserved!....wait, did you say computron?....and its spelled T-O-Y-M-O-D-A?....i'm just going to check these guys out to make sure i know not to buy from them and stuff....computron:)

I kind of lost interest in buying G1 molds with all the cool 3rd party stuff on the market. But this KO is actually a good thing. It will help drive down the crazy e-bay prices of G1 Scorponok. So any of you who are looking to buy the original, will pay alot less for it in the future. Of course there will always be those few who are offended that their precious figures are losing value. I think you should buy toys if you love them no matter what theyre worth. If youre looking for an investment, buy stocks or bonds instead of toys. And a KO Black Zarak with gold plastic that doesnt crumble is a great idea. I bet all those anti-KO people who bought the dino cassettes will buy it too.

Motto:"“You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent in The Dark Knight"

Weapon: Laser Rifle

Rated X wrote:I kind of lost interest in buying G1 molds with all the cool 3rd party stuff on the market. But this KO is actually a good thing. It will help drive down the crazy e-bay prices of G1 Scorponok. So any of you who are looking to buy the original, will pay alot less for it in the future. Of course there will always be those few who are offended that their precious figures are losing value. I think you should buy toys if you love them no matter what theyre worth. If youre looking for an investment, buy stocks or bonds instead of toys. And a KO Black Zarak with gold plastic that doesnt crumble is a great idea. I bet all those anti-KO people who bought the dino cassettes will buy it too.

i agree, these prices on G1 stuff is crazy hopefully we will see an encore release of scorponok because of this so i can have him next to fort max but i say screw those who want to screw us who collect to enjoy not to invest because it drives those away who loved them as a kid but can't afford them now but like with anything vintage there will always be those who see just $$$$$ and those who just appreciate it

Fanboy wrote:good good also all you guys are hypocrites All 3rd parties are actually KO

either that or you didn't get the subtext of some of our posts

assembling a Neo-G1/TF:TM cast. Please PM if you have (or know of) the following at a reasonable price: Classics or Henkei Astrotrain, Sunstreaker, Sideswipe, or 3rd Party iGear Ratchet and Ironhide. Also looking for Universe Repugnus and Overbite, Frostbite and Longhorn and any Webdiver toys.

I just completed after 30 years, G1 Season1 and 2 Decepticons!My Transformers purchasing habits1. Not hung up or hate scale. MP, Legend, Voyager I'll take 'em all. 2. Price is indeed a big factor but if its a need to own one even if I have to eat "Scooby Snacks " for a month then so be it.3. I tilt towards Tomy products over Hasbro because it's got lots'a bling (Legends Jetfire being the exception)

Motto:"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly; the ill deeds along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly. The rest ... is silence."

Weapon: Twin Shock-Concussion Missiles

Ultra Markus wrote:

Rated X wrote:I kind of lost interest in buying G1 molds with all the cool 3rd party stuff on the market. But this KO is actually a good thing. It will help drive down the crazy e-bay prices of G1 Scorponok. So any of you who are looking to buy the original, will pay alot less for it in the future. Of course there will always be those few who are offended that their precious figures are losing value. I think you should buy toys if you love them no matter what theyre worth. If youre looking for an investment, buy stocks or bonds instead of toys. And a KO Black Zarak with gold plastic that doesnt crumble is a great idea. I bet all those anti-KO people who bought the dino cassettes will buy it too.

i agree, these prices on G1 stuff is crazy hopefully we will see an encore release of scorponok because of this so i can have him next to fort max but i say screw those who want to screw us who collect to enjoy not to invest because it drives those away who loved them as a kid but can't afford them now but like with anything vintage there will always be those who see just $$$$$ and those who just appreciate it

KOs of any kind are very bad for the long run of this brand. What you guys have failed to mention is what happens when the KOs are passed off as originals, intentionally or mistakenly. That is unfair to unsuspecting collectors who are looking to obtain one of these figures.

I've owned every Hasbro G1 Transformers figure since 2007 before the KOs confused the market. I'm very lucky that I know for certainty that everything I own is original because the KOs weren't hitting the market yet. I think it is extremely unfortunate that collectors have to deal with this crap and aren't able to enjoy collecting unadulterated the way that I was able to.

It's one thing when you knowingly buy a KO, but when someone sells their collection later down the road and fails to mention that the item was a KO, or when their storage unit goes up for auction because they forgot to make a few payments or, god forbid, they pass away and their loved ones sell their collection, these KOs will inevitably end up being passed off as originals sooner or later.

Rationalizing that KOs are a good thing in any manner is a selfish view and a view that fails to see the big problem in the long run. It could also be argued the same about official reissues, but they're quality items and in many cases the reissues retain the value of the originals or even surpass their value in some cases. There is a big difference between a quality official reissue and an unofficial unlicensed counterfeit product that doesn't have to meet certain quality standards.

We collectors have a huge responsibility to make sure that future generations of Transformers fans get to enjoy quality Transformers products without having every item run the risk of being a faulty or flawed or counterfeit product. Maybe some of you don't care about this and only care about what you can afford or get your hands on. There is a much bigger picture regarding all of this. I hope that those of you who think that counterfeit products belong in this market will take some time to ponder what items like that do to water down this brand and the enjoyment of collectors in the long run.

Rated X wrote:I kind of lost interest in buying G1 molds with all the cool 3rd party stuff on the market. But this KO is actually a good thing. It will help drive down the crazy e-bay prices of G1 Scorponok. So any of you who are looking to buy the original, will pay alot less for it in the future. Of course there will always be those few who are offended that their precious figures are losing value. I think you should buy toys if you love them no matter what theyre worth. If youre looking for an investment, buy stocks or bonds instead of toys. And a KO Black Zarak with gold plastic that doesnt crumble is a great idea. I bet all those anti-KO people who bought the dino cassettes will buy it too.

i agree, these prices on G1 stuff is crazy hopefully we will see an encore release of scorponok because of this so i can have him next to fort max but i say screw those who want to screw us who collect to enjoy not to invest because it drives those away who loved them as a kid but can't afford them now but like with anything vintage there will always be those who see just $$$$$ and those who just appreciate it

KOs of any kind are very bad for the long run of this brand. What you guys have failed to mention is what happens when the KOs are passed off as originals, intentionally or mistakenly. That is unfair to unsuspecting collectors who are looking to obtain one of these figures.

I've owned every Hasbro G1 Transformers figure since 2007 before the KOs confused the market. I'm very lucky that I know for certainty that everything I own is original because the KOs weren't hitting the market yet. I think it is extremely unfortunate that collectors have to deal with this crap and aren't able to enjoy collecting unadulterated the way that I was able to.

It's one thing when you knowingly buy a KO, but when someone sells their collection later down the road and fails to mention that the item was a KO, or when their storage unit goes up for auction because they forgot to make a few payments or, god forbid, they pass away and their loved ones sell their collection, these KOs will inevitably end up being passed off as originals sooner or later.

Rationalizing that KOs are a good thing in any manner is a selfish view and a view that fails to see the big problem in the long run. It could also be argued the same about official reissues, but they're quality items and in many cases the reissues retain the value of the originals or even surpass their value in some cases. There is a big difference between a quality official reissue and an unofficial unlicensed counterfeit product that doesn't have to meet certain quality standards.

We collectors have a huge responsibility to make sure that future generations of Transformers fans get to enjoy quality Transformers products without having every item run the risk of being a faulty or flawed or counterfeit product. Maybe some of you don't care about this and only care about what you can afford or get your hands on. There is a much bigger picture regarding all of this. I hope that those of you who think that counterfeit products belong in this market will take some time to ponder what items like that do to water down this brand and the enjoyment of collectors in the long run.

There is also the case of reissues having bad quality such as Encore Bruticus which showed serious mold degradation. My Encore Skids falls apart at the waist when transforming him. I never had an original G1 Skids so I don't know if that problem was present on that toy. I have also never had a reissue of the Eject/Rewind mold that can hold it's weapons securely.

Anyway, lets not let this descend into a KO discussion thread. I already have an original Scorponok so I won't be buying the KO.

Rated X wrote:I kind of lost interest in buying G1 molds with all the cool 3rd party stuff on the market. But this KO is actually a good thing. It will help drive down the crazy e-bay prices of G1 Scorponok. So any of you who are looking to buy the original, will pay alot less for it in the future. Of course there will always be those few who are offended that their precious figures are losing value. I think you should buy toys if you love them no matter what theyre worth. If youre looking for an investment, buy stocks or bonds instead of toys. And a KO Black Zarak with gold plastic that doesnt crumble is a great idea. I bet all those anti-KO people who bought the dino cassettes will buy it too.

i agree, these prices on G1 stuff is crazy hopefully we will see an encore release of scorponok because of this so i can have him next to fort max but i say screw those who want to screw us who collect to enjoy not to invest because it drives those away who loved them as a kid but can't afford them now but like with anything vintage there will always be those who see just $$$$$ and those who just appreciate it

KOs of any kind are very bad for the long run of this brand. What you guys have failed to mention is what happens when the KOs are passed off as originals, intentionally or mistakenly. That is unfair to unsuspecting collectors who are looking to obtain one of these figures.

I've owned every Hasbro G1 Transformers figure since 2007 before the KOs confused the market. I'm very lucky that I know for certainty that everything I own is original because the KOs weren't hitting the market yet. I think it is extremely unfortunate that collectors have to deal with this crap and aren't able to enjoy collecting unadulterated the way that I was able to.

It's one thing when you knowingly buy a KO, but when someone sells their collection later down the road and fails to mention that the item was a KO, or when their storage unit goes up for auction because they forgot to make a few payments or, god forbid, they pass away and their loved ones sell their collection, these KOs will inevitably end up being passed off as originals sooner or later.

Rationalizing that KOs are a good thing in any manner is a selfish view and a view that fails to see the big problem in the long run. It could also be argued the same about official reissues, but they're quality items and in many cases the reissues retain the value of the originals or even surpass their value in some cases. There is a big difference between a quality official reissue and an unofficial unlicensed counterfeit product that doesn't have to meet certain quality standards.

We collectors have a huge responsibility to make sure that future generations of Transformers fans get to enjoy quality Transformers products without having every item run the risk of being a faulty or flawed or counterfeit product. Maybe some of you don't care about this and only care about what you can afford or get your hands on. There is a much bigger picture regarding all of this. I hope that those of you who think that counterfeit products belong in this market will take some time to ponder what items like that do to water down this brand and the enjoyment of collectors in the long run.

There is also the case of reissues having bad quality such as Encore Bruticus which showed serious mold degradation. My Encore Skids falls apart at the waist when transforming him. I never had an original G1 Skids so I don't know if that problem was present on that toy. I have also never had a reissue of the Eject/Rewind mold that can hold it's weapons securely.

Anyway, lets not let this descend into a KO discussion thread. I already have an original Scorponok so I won't be buying the KO.

I think articles like this are good because they help people identify which specific KOs are out there. And when the product is released, I'm sure there will be other articles identifying the differences between the KO and an original.

I personally don't care if KOs exist because I don't care if I own a KO or an official product. I only don't like it if people try to treat KOs like official products. I think people should be given the choice to decide if they want to own a KO or not so I prefer to keep people educated about KOs instead of trying to stop them.

Motto:"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly; the ill deeds along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly. The rest ... is silence."

Weapon: Twin Shock-Concussion Missiles

Trikeboy wrote:There is also the case of reissues having bad quality such as Encore Bruticus which showed serious mold degradation. My Encore Skids falls apart at the waist when transforming him. I never had an original G1 Skids so I don't know if that problem was present on that toy. I have also never had a reissue of the Eject/Rewind mold that can hold it's weapons securely.

It sounds like you've got some duds that should've been returned. I have no issues with any of the toys that you mentioned. Both my Hasbro and Takara Skids are fine, I didn't notice any problems at all with my Encore Bruticus, and I have no problems at all with Eject and Rewind holding their weapons.

That's just a sample of "reissues" that are on E-Bay Australia, imagine how many there are on other E-Bay sites.

And yes, any collector will know that those particular figures have never been reissued so they're obviously fake. But what about a collectors friends and family? When they go looking for a birthday or Christmas present will they make the effort to do the research?

I've been caught. I asked the seller if it was a genuine Ratchet, he assured me it was. He lied. He blatantly lied to me. It was a KO, and a crappy one at that.

So yeah, it's not a simple case of price. There are people out there who will take advantage of these figures to blatantly rip people off.

Burn wrote:I've been caught. I asked the seller if it was a genuine Ratchet, he assured me it was. He lied. He blatantly lied to me. It was a KO, and a crappy one at that.

If someone wants to cheat you, they will try to find a way. Someone might say that a toy is in mint condition and when you get it, it's a loose piece of crap. They might tell you it's MISB when they just carefully re-taped it.

If you know something specific that is different about the KO and official product, you should ask that question instead of whether it's official or not. The seller might not even know.

Motto:"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly; the ill deeds along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly. The rest ... is silence."

Weapon: Twin Shock-Concussion Missiles

Omega-1 wrote:

Burn wrote:I've been caught. I asked the seller if it was a genuine Ratchet, he assured me it was. He lied. He blatantly lied to me. It was a KO, and a crappy one at that.

If someone wants to cheat you, they will try to find a way. Someone might say that a toy is in mint condition and when you get it, it's a loose piece of crap. They might tell you it's MISB when they just carefully re-taped it.

If you know something specific that is different about the KO and official product, you should ask that question instead of whether it's official or not. The seller might not even know.

Your statement applies for those of us who are die-hard fans and are aware that such counterfeit products exist. However, the majority of Transformers fans (the casual fans) are not die-hards like us here on Seibertron.com. They are unaware of that there are counterfeit products on the market and that those products come in near identical packaging to the original Transformers toys and are difficult to tell apart from an authentic product unless you know what you are looking for. Our knowledge of counterfeit products is a luxury we have that most casual Transformers fans most likely do not have. It is unfair to them.

Seibertron wrote:This statement applies for those of us who are die-hard fans and are aware that such counterfeit products exist. However, the majority of Transformers fans (the casual fans) are not die-hards like us here on Seibertron.com. They are unaware of that there are counterfeit products on the market and that those products come in near identical packaging to the original Transformers toys and are difficult to tell apart from an authentic product unless you know what you are looking for. Our knowledge of counterfeit products is a luxury we have that most casual Transformers fans most likely do not have. It is unfair to them.

I'm not an expert in many things that I buy, TVs, cameras, purses and honestly, not even all Transformers toys. That's why I do research before I buy them. And what if a casual fan wants to buy a toy of their favourite G1 character which costs $100 but can't afford to or don't want to pay that. Is it fair to tell them that then they can't have one when they could buy a KO for $40 (assuming they don't care if it's official or not)? That's a very elitist point of view.

Seibertron wrote:This statement applies for those of us who are die-hard fans and are aware that such counterfeit products exist. However, the majority of Transformers fans (the casual fans) are not die-hards like us here on Seibertron.com. They are unaware of that there are counterfeit products on the market and that those products come in near identical packaging to the original Transformers toys and are difficult to tell apart from an authentic product unless you know what you are looking for. Our knowledge of counterfeit products is a luxury we have that most casual Transformers fans most likely do not have. It is unfair to them.

I'm not an expert in many things that I buy, TVs, cameras, purses and honestly, not even all Transformers toys. That's why I do research before I buy them. And what if a casual fan wants to buy a toy of their favourite G1 character which costs $100 but can't afford to or don't want to pay that. Is it fair to tell them that then they can't have one when they could buy a KO for $40 (assuming they don't care if it's official or not)? That's a very elitist point of view.