What I think Prophet is trying to say is that they seem more concerned about winning a leg than they do about surviving until the final three. They were so utterly heartbroken to be told they were Team Number Three in Brussels, when most Amazing Race teams would say 'That's okay, at least we're in the final four'. When they used the U-Turn in Denmark, they used it solely for the purpose of winning the leg. If they wanted to increase their chances of surviving the leg, they would have U-Turned a team at the back. If they wanted to get rid of a strong team, they would have U-Turned Andy & Tommy. But their priority was to win the leg.

What I think Prophet is trying to say is that they seem more concerned about winning a leg than they do about surviving until the final three. They were so utterly heartbroken to be told they were Team Number Three in Brussels, when most Amazing Race teams would say 'That's okay, at least we're in the final four'. When they used the U-Turn in Denmark, they used it solely for the purpose of winning the leg. If they wanted to increase their chances of surviving the leg, they would have U-Turned a team at the back. If they wanted to get rid of a strong team, they would have U-Turned Andy & Tommy. But their priority was to win the leg.

But the thing here is... they have no problem surviving each leg and not only that, it's not even the final three yet.. so why should they be concerned about something that's so far away? I mean, all this while they have been at the front of the pack, so their only main concern is about whether they win or not. And when they don't win, they will talk about it naturally... isn't that logical? It's just like Marcus and Amani, they're at the back all the time and when they finally get a break and no longer is the last team at a particular task, they talk about being the underdogs and surviving... and how it's not over until Phil says so. Isn't it the same theory?? You look at Marcus and Amani and Jeremy and Sandy, they are at one point of time nearly at the back of the pack... or on the brink of elimination. They're not strong teams so if they made it through, it would be natural for them to say "It's okay, at least we're team number four". But all these while, Ernie and Cindy has been in the front pack, so naturally if they don't win, they will be disappointed, but they know they also won't be eliminated because there's always the bottom pack team. You can't expect them to say 'It's okay we're team number four' when they have been first throughout the entire leg and only drop to the back because of one task and not win. I mean, who wouldn't be disappointed? If you play a fantasy game and expected to win because you thought you did well, only to find out you incur a 30 mins penalty for not doing something right and don't win, you'll be pissed with yourself right? I don't get why are you all being so harsh on them when they're just being harsh on themselves? It's not like they blamed other teams for their losses right? Even after Andy and Tommy outran them, they didn't U-TURN them on the next leg just because Andy and Tommy "stole" their win on the previous leg. They used it as a strategic move on Bill and Cathi so that they can secure the win for the leg... what's wrong with that?

If they wanted to increase their chances of surviving the leg, they would have U-Turned a team at the back. If they wanted to get rid of a strong team, they would have U-Turned Andy & Tommy. But their priority was to win the leg.

But, they are really focusing and increasing their chances of winning the leg and NOT surviving it. Why would you want to U-TURN a team all the way at the back if you're trying to win a leg? For Bill and Cathi to catch up... no right?

As what i've said, they probably figured Amani and Marcus WOULD be eliminated because they didn't catch the flight AND they haven't seen them for the entire leg as of then until the U-TURN. U-TURNing Andy and Tommy would be POINTLESS because it does NOTHING at all. They knew that there's no way Andy and Tommy's going to get eliminated, why U-TURN them and make bad blood with the snowboarders? Might as well U-TURN Bill and Cathi and secure your win for the leg right?

Yes, Dom, that's what I mean. I just feel that if they want to win the Race, then that's the wrong strategy (I really liked Kisha and Jen's winning strategy). But if Ernie and Cindy just want to win a few legs and win prizes, then they've accomplished their goal.

Prophet... there is no strategy here?? Ernie and Cindy just want to win each leg of the race? I don't get how trying to win legs on the race becomes a strategy. You mean, you have seen an interview of Kisha and Jen who said that their aim is to get by each leg AND don't win and only win the last one? No right? It's more of Kisha and Jen always did their best but somehow don't win (but they DO want to win each leg for sure) and until it comes to a point they just thought that as long as they win the last one, it's all that counts.

Why are you guys talking about things that doesn't even hold true for Ernie and Cindy?

Yea... I'm just stating my opinions on things which I felt didn't make much fair judgement for team Ernie and Cindy by some of you. If you all are able to have a valid point of view, I may be convinced that their U-TURN used was pointless (which is fairly true that they could have not used it and still win the leg... but you never know) and that they shouldn't always focus on trying to win each leg of the race. Because if I remembered correctly, Ernie and Cindy had always been excited to go to new places at the start of each leg of the race (Laurence and Zac and the Snowboarders were the only two teams who didn't jump with excitement when the race instructed them to go to Copenhagen [EUROPE] at the pitstart) and are seemingly nice to the other teams.

I have stayed out of this until now, but it's time to put a few things into perspective. Prophet, how does using a U-turn harm the long-term chances of Ernie and Cindy winning AR19? There are only 2 potential reasons I can think of:1. Using the U-Turn will prohibit them from using any future U-turns IF THERE ARE ANY2. Other teams will be pissed off and retaliate in some way

I see both of those as complete red herrings. There wasn't a U-Turn in Episodes 9 and 10 and won't be any more U-Turns in the final 2 legs. Other teams are going to be focusing on making the F3 and not worrying about trying to hurt Ernie/Cindy because they harmed Bill and Cathi by using the U-Turn on them.

My bottom line is that I agree with Joab completely in this argument. The "I hate Ernie and Cindy" crowd does not appreciate that Bill and Cathi put themselves into too big a hole and doing the second DETOUR was not the real cause of it. Their inability to master the BodyBuilding poses quickly was the real cause.

I don't really like Ernie & Cindy, but I'm not upset that they U-Turned Bill & Cathi, they had a reason to use it. What annoys me about them concerning the U-Turn is how they said using it is a dirty move and then threw a fit about Andy & Tommy "stealing" the win.

What I will say is that I think Ernie & Cindy discovered that they are prone to make navigational mistakes. Them U-Turning Bill and Cathi was a safe bet because they could guarantee the outcome "BC won't steal our win". U-Turning any other team wouldn't serve this same purpose. Also, there was no way way that they could guarantee the outcome "a strong team will be eliminated if we U-Turn them".

In conclusion since "thinking about long-term survival and eliminating a stronger team" was not very likely with the U-Turn, it was rational to go for "at least let's win this leg". It was definitely the safest bet.

Logged

The story so far:In the beginning the Universe was created.This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move

I feel like we're back to Season 14, where I didn't mind ANYONE winning. (I liked Tammy and Victor best, hoping that Jaime and Cara can be the first all-female team to win then or Margie and Luke to be the first paren-child team to win)

Ernie and Cindy gives me the Tammy and Victor vibes, here's hoping that they will win the race.

However, the clear emphasis is on Marcus and Amani as the comeback kids and underdogs. So they could be the ones winning too.

BUT, if Jeremy and Sandy win. I'll be shocked beyond words. But I won't be displeased. I think they're an awesome team who worked well together.

But if I have one team to choose, I'll be rooting for Ernie and Cindy.

Not true. I've travelled by train in Germany taking several different trips, and the percentage of times I've got checked by a conductor was only about 30%. No shenanigans needed to be involved.

Sorry for the late response. I agree with this. I live in the Netherlands and have travelled by train here, in Germany and Belgium a lot!Sometimes you're on a train for 2,5-3 or 4 hours, and nobody comes to ever check your ticket, sometimes they do a run 3 times. I do think it's more likely to get checked on an international train but there are no guarantees for sure. I don't think this was 'rigged' by the production or anything they were extremely lucky.

One thing I don't get is how TAR isn't always equally strict on rules I think. Sometimes people do get timepenalties and speedbumps for eg not following part of a clue (taking a taxi instead of walking etc), sometimes they don't like here, driving without a ticket. It's not really illegal but if you get caught you do get a fine from the company that runs the service. So I'm not sure why that doesn't qualify for a penalty of sorts.

Anyway, can't say I have been a big fan of this team this series, probably because of the editting they got maybe..? So somehow I can't see them winning really. I think most likely it will be one of the two other teams. Cindy loses her calm a lot under pressure which could cost them the win for silly reasons maybe. Just my two cents. (By the way, love the x-mas smileys here! )

« Last Edit: December 11, 2011, 08:46:24 AM by Topita »

Logged

Love takes off masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within.

I agree with this. I live in the Netherlands and have travelled by train here, in Germany and Belgium a lot!Sometimes you're on a train for 2,5-3 or 4 hours, and nobody comes to ever check your ticket, sometimes they do a run 3 times.

Topita,I once knew the answer to this question, but I don't now:Are you on international trains supposed to punch your train ticket on special machines before entering a train?

I agree with this. I live in the Netherlands and have travelled by train here, in Germany and Belgium a lot!Sometimes you're on a train for 2,5-3 or 4 hours, and nobody comes to ever check your ticket, sometimes they do a run 3 times.

Topita,I once knew the answer to this question, but I don't now:Are you on international trains supposed to punch your train ticket on special machines before entering a train?

I think that depends on the country you are in most likely. The last time I was on an international train I went to Paris on TGV, it was an e-ticket I booked and all they did was check it. This was over 2 years ago though but I think this still applies. I don't remember going through any special machines but I suppose it's possible on other international stations. In other travels to Germany and Belgium I just purchased a ticket at the international ticket office and they simply checked it on the train.

On the trains inside the Netherlands you just purchase a ticket usually from a machine and they stamp it with a date/timestamp. You can also buy a ticket without a date but then you have to date/timestamp it on the platform before entering the train else it's not valid and you'll be given a fine.

They have changed a lot in transport in the Netherlands though eg in subwaystations. You need to enter the card before you can actually get on the platform.There was a plan to use socalled 'ov-chipgate' (i.e. you'd use your public transport chipcard which is now used everywhere here in the Netherlands unless you pay cash which is a lot more expensive) on most trainstations but as far as I know they abandonned that plan since there were too many technical problems/ failures and complaints of malfunction. Not sure how many stations have them at the moment, since nowadays I don't travel as much by train as I did 2-3 years ago.

Typically I don't think they use that sort of system for international trains as it would be too much hassle for tourists to go through. I think it's more common to have someone on the train checking the tickets.

Logged

Love takes off masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within.