DACA & Shortage of Workers

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Was just thinking about the horrors still unfolding in Houston and the horror about to happen in Florida. My daughter recently lived at the very tip of Key West. Her best friend from that time is today trying to wrangle 4 cats and 2 dogs to safety.

Imagine being in a shelter and not knowing anything about what is going to happen next. Imagine returning home to find that everything is destroyed and all you have to work with is what you can carry in your hands.

Imagine the very same thing happening to you except that instead of being a hurricane refugee you are a photo-op for a campaign rally.

Trump repealed DACA today.
His Attorney General said it was the compassionate thing to do.

How is it compassionate to rip someone from their family and their community and make them relocate to a country they don't know anything about and for whom many don't even speak the language.

The construction community can't find enough workers to staff the projects we build cabinets for and this administration wants to send 800,000 to certain misery and exploitation. All for a campaign slogan on a baseball hat.

The Right-To-Lifers say that every child's life is precious. Can we count on them to help lobby for the DACA children too?

Reasons it is compassionate:
1) They can now go and be with their parents, grandparents & siblings who also are either in their home country or are on/will be on their way also.
2)We are told their culture, heritage and country of origin are to be celebrated, while ours are not. Therefore we are sending them to the place and people they love.
3)They will miss the coming civil war. Proximity+Diversity=War. It has already had a soft start and will go hot within a decade, sooner rather than later. We are not American's anymore. We are blacks, whites, hispanics, women, men, trans, LGalphabet, Muslims, Christians, Jews...it's all tribal now. Like it or not. It's pick a tribe or get eaten by the wolves of the other tribe. Like it or not. And we are battling for the life boats on a sinking empire. It will get ugly.
4)It is the compassionate thing to do for Americans in the same age bracket who this is their one chance, albeit very small, to see their wages go up, their taxes go down and who will better be able to hold onto their liberty.

They must go home. Even the good ones, the hard working ones, which I will admit, are a great many. They can work hard and be good in their own country. They can just be thankful our penalties for breaking immigration laws are not their home countries.

It doesn't matter how old these people are. They were brought to this country by their parents. They had no voice in the matter. They are a product of their circumstances, just like you and just like all of your children and all of your family.

I agree with those who would export the criminals. Sheriff Apaio, for example, was convicted of violating our citizen's constitutional rights for no other reason than the color of their skin. Every patriot in this forum (and in this country) would defend our constitutional protections.

Immigrants are hard working people. Many of our citizens can barely graduate from high school. I can fully understand them not wanting to compete with someone who was capable of getting all the way to America from Ethiopia.

Even Maine Governor LePage is advocating early release of prisoners for no other reason than mitigating the lack of available workers in his state.

We need the best and the brightest. We need the strong and the willing. Houston is going to need to be re-built. So too are our highways and bridges. To send 800,000 people out of this country for no other reason than a photo-op for the base is just plain wrong.

We already have the transcripts of Trump's conversation with the President of Mexico. He already admitted this was just a campaign trick. There is no reason to double down on this lunacy.

This is a great opportunity for these "children". With the vast education and skills they now posses they can go back to their countries and be great entrepreneurs and bring their countryman's standard of living up a notch or two.

Whether or not the circumstances of their being brought here was good or bad, your "feelings" about this shouldn't be taken into account as much as the laws that were broken because of it.

DACA was an illegal move by our former president. He went against the congress's wishes, the peoples wishes to implement this illegal executive order. It was an unconstitutional act. And although a lot of dreamers will be deported it is what the law states.

Again, this is on their parents.

If you rob a store and get caught and sent to jail, you can't blame the store.

Governor LePage is recommending that we release convicted criminals in order to create a labor force for the State of Maine.

My hunch is that Texas will be real grateful for those brown skinned workers who help them rebuild from the hurricane. As I understand it there is a very big hurricane just off the coast of Florida that may have the same impact as Hurricane Katrina,

And you want to talk about the bad things Obama did?

You have been preparing your whole life for this moment... Is that the best you got?

The reason that Obama created DACA was because congress refused to act. This was a tacit agreement between Mitch McConnell and Obama.

No Republican wanted to be seen as soft on immigration but they knew something needed to be done. By passing this off onto Obama's plate they could go back home preen before the cameras.

It is really no different than the posturing that took place with the 85 votes to abolish ObamaCare. The base really ate this stuff up so they kept trotting out the optics. This was really easy to do when they knew that Obama would veto the legislation. Not so easy, however, when you are playing with live ammunition.

The Republicans control the House, Senate & Executive branch. There is a reason the healthcare laws haven't changed and the reason is because this is what their constituents want and rolling back ObamaCare would have collateral consequences that affect electability.

Same thing with the WALL. There is a reason not a single legislator from any state bordering Mexico has come out in support of the wall. It is just another optic to sell to the base. They believe it because they want to believe it and for no other reason than they want to believe it.

Pat,

You probably wouldn't be so glib if you were here under DACA provisions. It's kind of like the anti-Obamacare crowd or the "marijuana doesn't affect everybody way". Every man, woman & child in the first group already have health care paid for by somebody else. Everybody in the second group is a pothead. I will even go out on a limb and say that everybody is fearful a civil war is going to come secretly wants it to happen.

What Trump is doing is putting it on Congress to either write immigration laws to help these people or they will be deported. Our system is not supposed to be a Dictatorship where the President dictates what laws will be made and what laws will be enforce.

As for ObamaCare, if it is such a great program, why would they exempt Governments and large businesses? What that program does is put the cost of paying for the uninsured onto small businesses and individuals, and that is why it should be repealed. Also, would any insurance company go out and sell insurance to home owners in Huston that would be retro-active to a date before Harvey? Well, that is what Pre-existing conditions in health care is doing, giving health care to people that did not have insurance when they came down with a disease.

There is a reason not a single legislator from a state bordering Mexico has come out to publicly support building Trump's Wall.

There is a reason that when the Republican's controlled the United States Senate, The House of Representatives AND the Presidency of the United States that they did not repeal Obamacare.

There is a reason these same three bodies will not make any significant changes to immigration law.

It is the same reason that only 300 White Supremacists showed for the Boston Free Speech Rally and 40,000 ANTIFA protestors showed up.

It all has to do with the numbers.
Is easy to posture for the base during the primary but you got to ink the deal during the general election. Fail to ink the deal and you got to go back and work in a cabinet shop again. Congress pays much more.

Paul, you are right that ObamaCare is seriously flawed. That is because it was hamstrung by the Tea Party when the bill was written. There are a whole lot fewer Texas TeaParty members today. That won't happen again. We will get a Single-Payer health care system before it is over with. Paul Ryan will eventually understand the demographics and propose the changes himself.

Absolutely unbelievable that we are doing this as policy, as the 'compassionate' thing to do. Talk about double-speak. Talk about facism - this is what it looks like from the inside, no textbook needed. The people behind this are some of the worst 'leaders' this nation has ever had in power. Watching this unfold, it is easy to see how good people became a part of the Holocaust or other 'purges' in history.

800,000. How many Salks, Sagans or Jobs are there in that group that will never be brought forward due to this? Total up the group angst and how can we shoulder that?

Will you round these people up and load the bus? Will you confiscate the property, tell the family, the employers, the neighborhoods?

How exactly have these people caused you harm? Or caused this Nation harm?

Blame the parents? OK, but then what? Forcibly extricate these folks? Lots of parents screw up when it comes to trying to to do right by their families. That is now a crime?

My grandparents entered this country in 1916 under questionable circumstances. Should I be sent back?

Laws broken? If these were white people, there would be a repeal of the laws. That simple. Look at the Vietnam war protestors that went to Canada. They were told they could never come back. Educated, intelligent people of conviction; they also happened to be white. They were given amnesty and welcomed back. These people contribute to our society everyday.

There is no labor shortage. Our country has a quest worker program. Raise your wages if you need or want more help.

Illegal residents show apply for citizenship if they want to become citizens. A high per cent of illegals receive aid. I have a nephew that just got his citizenship and it took him years. He came here on a Work Permit, a Green card. So, the system works and it can be done.

Many farmers don't utilize the guest worker program because the program costs them more than hiring an illegal.

Let Congress change the law if they want. But, the Executive branch needs to enforce the laws. Simple as that.

And, David, you were probably born here and if your Grand Parents came here in 1916, I believe that was before the immigration laws were written.

Maybe you could not get your haircut because of all the illegals in the country. In my state, this profession, Hair Stylist is a licensed and regulated.

Also, where I live, we have a lot of summer visitors and a great need for seasonal help. There are many seasonal workers from other countries. So, if businesses need help and they cannot fill those jobs with citizens, there is a system to bring in help. It is a good system. The employer has to pay their way into the country and also out of the country, plus, the employer has to guarantee 37 hours a week at, I believe $12.00 per hour.

Small cabinet shops most likely will not hire illegals because the communication and education needs are probably more than you will get from an illegal.

In my area, the most Republican county in the US, there are strip malls and new restaurants that are closed - some never opened - due to lack of workers. The xenophobic citizens will not allow mass transit into the area, and the students and their parents would rather die than work fast food or service. Hispanics now are 22% of the population, and they do all he trade work. African Americas are 8%, Asians 12%. Even the homeless are Republican.

My county is just a focal point as to how values become skewed due to these strange notions of ours.

Fascism does not necessarily mean the overweight, spitting, fist wielding dictators of early 20th Century history reels. They can be quietly controlling the very thing we think are free. Our Leader says the news is fake, and most of us agree that it is of very poor quality, and heavily influenced by sponsors, since it is a function of Capitalism. Our Leader says we need to hate this group, and off we go, learning to hate, teaching our children, we hate, we wage war with words or megatonnage.

Could this be 21st Century fascism? Can we be manipulated to believe it is always the other guy? Do you think the Italians knew Mussolini was a fascist? How many suspected, but would not speak of their suspicions? Did any fascist system ever have demonstrators marching around with posters proclaiming their love of fascism?

Industry may not be controlled by the Iron Fist, but it certainly does comply with the laws and rules of its own making, for its own benefit. Could crony capitalism under the Uncle also be beneficent fascism?

My grandparents were turned away at Ellis Island because my Grandmother was ill. She was afraid to say she was pregnant. They snuck into Canada, and slipped over the border at International Falls MN. My father was born - in the US - 12 hours later. There were immigration laws at the time.

I will take it on good faith that your concern for the constitution is genuine and in good faith. May ask if your firm position on the unconstitutionality of DACA squares up with your position on the pardon of Joe Arpaio? After all, he was convicted of contempt for persisting in unconstitutional racist policies. Surely your respect for the constitution demands he be subject to the law for abusing his power, the same as the hundreds of thousands subject to deportation for a decision they had no hand in?

The reality is that Trump is trying to enforce the law. If previous Presidents had done that, we would not have the problem today.

This is a good time to raise your prices and improve your bottom line and increase the pay for your long term employees that have stuck with you through the tough times. Raise the tariff on cabinets and furniture from Asia and. China as well.

Small businesses have taken a huge hit over these last ten years. We don't need businesses popping up using illegals, dodging taxes and collecting social aid which legitimate businesses pay for.

As for Joe Arpaio, there is nothing in the Constitution about Profiling. Also, they refused to give him a jury trial and he was convicted by a Judge that based his Opinion on the Opinion of Judges. Pure BS. Any police officer that has any brains profiles people when they walk down the street or make a stop. It's called "Common Sense". Very little concern when you stop an older white guy driving a Cadillac in a wealthy rural area. Not the same as stopping an over loaded van loaded with Hispanics near the boarder in Arizonia. Profiling.

I always love when the "left" trots out the Constitution when it favors them and spends the 95% of the time shitting on it and tearing it to pieces.

I've got the Constitution hanging on my wall. Even I know it's dead. It's been dead since Abe Lincoln disregarded it, mocked it and walked all over it. Has been dead ever since with greater and greater momentum. It was a great opportunity, written by great men. But it is dead.

Those who respected it were just the last ones to figure it out. Let's stop kidding ourselves. There is no rule of law anymore. It's who has power and who doesn't. Who has public opinion and who doesn't. One person's truth is the others fake news.

I will state again since I have not stated it in this thread, only in past threads, the best thing to do would to draw a line down the Cascade Mountains and give the progressives, Muslims and diversity crowd the west coast and the Northeast and do an amicable split of the country. Do it without spilling blood. But that will not happen.

It's a fight for way of life, religion, culture, freedom and the two sides could not be more polarized and disagree more. I know my crowd tried the just leave us alone and we will leave you alone way of living- but you would not leave us alone. Make no mistake it is a fight. We understand that now. You are just mad we figured it out.

I know some here will call me crazy. That is okay. We are today no different then the rest of human history. I guarantee you that those in 1860 thought there was no way they'd be fighting, let alone fighting their own brothers across the battle field. There is nothing new under the sun and history rhymes.

What you are disgruntled with in the Arpaio matter is the basis of common law which is the practice and tradition that the legal system of the United States (and many former English colonies). If you feel the opinion of a judge, who was basing his opinion on the opinions of other judges, is an illegitimate way to decide legal matters, I have some bad news for you- that's literally what our legal system is and has always been based on.

While the legislature drafts law, the system of precedent and legal opinion is the third pillar co-equal of our system of checks and balances. Under that system, the United States has accepted that mass profiling violates the right to be protected from unreasonable search & seizure. How you feel about it can vary, but if you are trying to undermine its legitimacy as the law of the land, then it's pretty clear the letter of the law isn't sacred to you.

Nor should it be. Slavery was legal. Segregation was legal. What's legal and what's right are two separate things. I'd much rather cut the pretension that we're all just concerned with the enforcement of the law, and that the law is some kind of absolute which cannot be subject to interpretation or bias.

Pat - This country is trending towards fascism in the same way Trump supporters toy with racism.

His election/benediction gave them free reign to drop PC, say ni**er at will, bash a few dot-heads or towelheads or queers and even claim that a geographical line be drawn to separate the white people from the queers, perverts and lefties that love them.
Welcome to the New World Order, Trump style. Otherwise known as the alt- right.

I think fascism exists in the minds of many Americans. They want less government since that is what comes in the Conservative box. That then comes with a big lot of government to police the oppressed and enforce the unintended consequences that will inevitably arise.

Who do the police protect now? Property and property owners, just like the medieval sheriff whose job it was to extract taxes from the peasants. They do not protect the people alone.

Could not the apparently permanent economic/governmental welfare state be considered a form of slavery? Economic slavery that has generations trapped with no easy way out? Collecting welfare, low level drug dealing and wide abuse to fill the prison quotas, justify the huge amounts of profit from drug sales, all while giving us a perfect whipping boy that shows no visible scars.

The exact description of what David describes is exactly what Christians, white & not, have felt for the last decade in this country before the new administration. You will not see it, believe it, or in David's case I know because of personal conversations we have had- care. We are simply pushing back. Don't act like we are the only ones drawing lines...California anyone? From colleges, to organizations, to communities both the black, hispanic, queer they are all segregating themselves. Almost every single public university has white privilege, toxic masculinity and outright supports BLM. Everyone is drawing lines- from belief systems (religions, scientist/atheist), to races, to companies.

While *my* desire is for small government, where the government doesn't get to decide who is right and who is wrong, it is not going to happening. So we are fighting over who has control of the government. Our ideologies are not compatible. Tim & David's beliefs are at 180 to mine. The urban cities & diversity crowd are at 180 to middle America. They are not compatible. Our founding fathers told us this. It is not racism, if you mean racism being the color of someone's skin. It's the ideology/beliefs that are separating us. David makes it sounds like drawing lines is a bad thing- the only other options are oppressing his group or mine, or war to defeat/kill his group or mine.

Tell me David, which of those three options is best? Or do you not agree that the culture, beliefs and ideologies cannot live under the same government? What is your solution? Half the country is telling you that your side is just as "fascist" by your definition- do you think you can continue to nudge them over to your team one decade at a time? Is a deplorable able to be converted? Another three decades of public school indoctrination going to do the trick? Just wait us out? What is your solution sir?

You live in your own house. Your house is warm. You get plenty of food. Your children get to join Little League baseball and watch TV on 100 stations. You all get to attend the local grange potluck dinner and bitch about all the lefties, queers & ragheads.

You have nothing to bitch about.

Spend some time watching Holocaust Survivors recount what life was like in the camps.

Tim, I'm sorry. I forget that only progressives get to make their point. You have a dozen threads doing nothing but complaining. It's the usual from your crowd, the only thing that matters to you is those that you associate with your team. To us deplorables it "shut the hell up, you've got it good. After all I told you so, it must be true". It's pure arrogance. You just had 100+ million people tell you that isn't so but as the book says SJW's always lie and always double down. Listen to me or not. But I hear no solutions from you other than, "I'm right and you're a racist idiot until you believe as I do." And you wonder why we want to draw lines?

Moderator, I'm fine with this exchange as long as Tim & David are. I think it's the type of dialogue that is needed in this country. I know it's not pleasant or for the tender hearted but we are past that stage and have serious issues with no easy answers. I'd appreciate it if it stayed up but understand it's your platform and respect that. Thanks

cabmaker,
you are an f'n moron then, because you have half the country "imagining things" and you still cannot accept that there is validity behind what is being said.

Out of the 10,000 nazi's in this country I am not among them. I think they are as big of morons as you. I had family fight the really Nazi's. I had family on those ships Tim.

I am not a Nazi. I live on an Indian Reservation for goodness sakes. I have hispanics in my family. Neither am I ashamed of my white heritage but am proud of it. Why is it every culture is allowed to be proud of their culture except white folks? Then that makes them racists.

Keep it up you only drive more and more into my camp as they wake up. Just like all those Trump voters who voted Obama last time...damn racists. Out of the clients I visit weekly, I'm not even in the top half of enthusiastic Trumpers. I'm not the one bringing it up, or steering the conversations...I mostly listen. You have know idea what is coming. These are old, young, men and women...a great majority of them coming from your city. They've seen enough.

Like I said before, I'm more of a Ron Paul guy, but it's eat or be eaten at this point. I've had my family, my life, my livelihood and my freedom threaten by folks from your camp, those things I did not imagine. We are done backing down sir. We have nothing left to lose. The pendulum as swung, as it always does. the coming financial crisis will only intensify it.

When the coming financial crisis happens all the liberal techies have to do is hack into the servers at those websites that sell survivalist equipment. From those lists it is not difficult to learn where the food and ammunition is.

The survivalists will be really sleepy because they've been patrolling the perimeter all night. All the techies have to do is wait until after shift break then come in and take the food & ammo.

Since we know what websites they all visit daily we can find the secret queers and threaten to rat them out. They will cave easily.

Sounds like the plan of someone who doesn't even have video game experience, let alone real life.

We are terrified. My scariest dreams are made up asthmatic snowflakes, paunchy middle aged guys whose wives boss them around and 300lb femanizis in stretch pants. Out of professional courtesy I'll recommend you don't lead that raid. I don't see it ending well for you.

Phamilee Man -
When I talk of quiet control of information, you think we are on the same 'side'. When I mention that Trump's ascent has given voice to those that feel they could not speak before, you think I am endorsing your beliefs. I am sorry to disappoint you, but I'm just pointing out the fact that the alt/right is on the rise.

I think that we are all on the same side, but of different beliefs. I would prefer to bring you to an understanding of how neurology and behavioral psychology and genetics and glandular extracts rule all of our behavior? Both your and mine, there is no escaping.

Arthur C Clarke wrote about a drug that once given would eliminate all need for irrational beliefs like religion. Gone in a blink.

What you miss is that the forces that do quietly control what you see as an issue are the very forces you endorse. you can't have White Supremacy without a non-white supremacy. Night without day, left without right. Borderline nazis driving the fear of minorities into the insecure, Klan or white supremacist members of police agencies, politicians planning concentration camps for war protestors, all working increasingly together to assert their poor downtrodden pink asses, while giving rise to the monster they hope to overcome. It may sound Buddhist, but it is one of their best truths, and worth knowing well.

The folks you love are the folks you hate. The theater is that it is all role playing - people of one mind saying and behaving things opposite, for their own benefit, for the benefit of some outer ideal. Doublespeak is so common we don't even hear it, as in when Jeff (or is it Ross Perot?) Sessions calls the expatriotization of hundreds of thousands of people 'compassionate'. That is not compassionate, it is the 21st century version of the 'resettlement' of jews from the Warsaw ghetto. It is doublespeak.

One can make the argument that US ghettos that house chiefly unemployed or unemployable people are economic concentration camps. They are all in there, fenced in by lack of education, opportunity, addictions, culture and more. Or maybe just an unreliable car.

The "Bread and Circuses" of the ghetto come in the form of flat screen TV, high carb cheap foods (Amazon Soylent coming soon!), a culture on the near bottom, with the drugs delivered via needle, pipe or medicaid.

What are your "Bread and Circuses"? Football on the flat screen? Dually truck with 8 yr payment schedule? We all have them. It is prudent to realize what keeps us all in line.

David, not sure how you thought I and you were in agreement on anything.

Your beliefs are just as much of a religion as mine. Just one we're there is no right and wrong, which right and wrong can change. Do not worry we find your religion just offensive as you find ours. Which is why I will state again there are three options because we cannot live under the same government and laws.
1) you oppress us or we oppress you. The current set up which is becoming more polarized which will leave us only with two options quickly
2) one of us wipes the other out
3) we redraw lines

Again, what is your solution? Other than magically (which you don't believe in) changing roughly 150 million minds and hearts?

Based on the complaints you continually have I would guess your father was not old enough to serve in World War Two. If he was he would tell you why he was there and then tell to STFU.

Your grandfather was certainly old enough to fight fascism. He would tell you to STFU and go pull some more weeds. If you don't get the weeds out there will be no garden. No garden > No groceries.

You only have problems like yours on a full belly.

Angst is, however, a necessary component to the human condition. Without angst we would not learn to discern tree snakes from leaves and the tree snakes would eat us. Back when we were still tree lemurs we needed to keep an eye on every shadow because you never knew if it was a cloud passing in front of the sun or that bird hunting us again.

WSJ had an article today about the shortage of labor available to rebuild Houston.

This is turning out well for the General Contractors and by extension the workers who will be showing up to remediate the damage. This is perceived as a win-win by the Trumpkins who think anything that raises wages has to be good.

Flip side is that somebody has to pay the bill. There are a lot of people whose lives will be very painful because they'll have to wait forever to get their repairs or go into bankruptcy to pay for them. What is good for one party in this transaction is not necessarily good for the other.

Meanwhile we have all these people from Mexico who would really appreciate a job and who would be grateful for the opportunity to work.

It seems there could be some middle ground here. Maybe even expand the DACA concept. If you have construction skills we need you could, after vetting to make sure you are not a criminal, earn some points towards citizenship.

We are going to have to open up immigration eventually. The sooner we start to plan for this the easier it will be to make the transition.

It looks like Florida is going to need some help too. If we need workers and we have workers available we should hire them.

They can help fill the pews at the Catholic Church, plant tomatoes for Pat Gilbert and take care of FamilyMan's weeding problem so he has more time to strategize.

America is predicated on hand outs.
Any time any dollar flows from the government it is welfare. It may be necessary welfare but it is still welfare.

Welfare may be conspicuous like food stamps or it may be subtle like mortgage interest deduction but it is nonetheless still welfare.

The mortgage deduction helps prop up the price of housing which helps cabinetmakers sell kitchens. Being able to depreciate a building in a locale with double digit increases in the cost of housing is another form of welfare.

The City of Seattle gives all kinds of concessions to Amazon. This helps FamilyMan sell his work in the middle of the Okanagon mountains. Without these subsidies he can no longer live and thrive where the air is clean and there are no muslims.

It's all juice. It's what keeps the world going.

Eventually demographics tell us that Hispanics are going to be the dominate voting bloc. I would rather have these people educated and healthy than not.
They will go on to become software engineers and buy weekend places in the Okanogan.

I don't think you really are a cabinetmaker. I see political postings, but no web site displaying your work.

As for General Contractors or workers showing up in Florida and getting paid time and a half or even double time, they will deserve it. They will be living in temporary housing, RV's etc, away from family and home. The people in Florida will be glad they came. And, if they do come, they will be from the Midwest and the Northeast.

Protecting our boarders is not about racism. Its about protecting our culture. If there is a mass invasion of people from the third world, our culture will not survive. You can look at Dearborn, Michigan. Dearborn has the largest Muslim population in the US. They have not integrated and whites and blacks that are not Muslim, leave or don't come in. It is a different culture. I think you are seeing the same thing taking place in California as white people are leaving the state.

As for DACA, let Congress decide what we should do. I am sure that these people will be given a path to citizenship, but they should have to apply and all illegals should have to register. As it is now, they have no real path to citizenship and this would be the humane thing to do.

If there is a shortage of labor, make the employer go through the process to get a work permit and assume the responsibility for their employment. As it is now, we do not know who is here or what they are doing. This would help in ending the Gangs that plague the cities and that would help the poor who have to live in these areas.

You are right about Muslim populations keeping to themselves in communities like Dearborn, Michigan. The Irish did the same thing when they first came to this nation. It is a natural self defense mechanism when others around you want to cause you harm. Your tribe would probably do the same if set down in unfamiliar circumstances.

I am not sure what you mean by "OUR" culture. Cultures evolve and change. Your ancestors used to eat nothing but porridge and mutton but now they dine regularly at Olive Garden and Chipotle.

I don't disagree that Contractors or workers deserve overtime wages for working in severe conditions. I'm saying we need a lot more workers than we have available. Mexicans are offering to provide some of that labor. We should take them up on it.

A path to citizenship is great. You are right that gangs are a scourge. If you don't have to live in the shadows you don't have to depend on gangs for protection. Gangs will go away if the people who are attracted to them have better alternatives.

The foreigners are going to come. Better to deal with it realistically than like an ostrich with it's head in the sand.

In order to assimilate into a free market society you need to have access to capital, housing and employment. Take any one of those things away and the immigrant has their own tribe to turn to.

We have many people in our country who proudly claim they support "family" values yet disdain cultures that are in fact family centric. How many members of this WoodWeb community live in homes that house three generations of family? I would suspect that very few of us have Mom & Dad living under the same roof as us and our kids. Many of us wouldn't think of it. Please tell me how this reconciles with "family values"?

The root cause of this xenophobia is fear of people who don't look like us, plain & simple. It may be couched in all kinds of rationalizations but this is only because nobody wants to think of themselves as a racist.

Is easy to beat up the poor. The welfare queen sitting on her sofa watching TV makes the hard working cabinetmaker angry. That TV is located in a rental property. The person who owns that rental property gets to write off the mortgage interest and depreciate the building even though it is the renter who actually pays the mortgage.

It is true that we have far too many unemployed & under-employed people in the country. There are structural reasons for this.

Some of it has to do with family values. A lot of people are not willing to leave their families behind so that they can pursue work at higher wages elsewhere in the country. A lot of people simply aren't willing to move out of the country where life is idyllic. I personally moved from Bellingham to Seattle because the kind of work I wanted to do was not available in Bellingham and I was not willing to spend my day in an automobile commuting to opportunity.

A lot of people are unemployed or under-employed because they can't pass a drug test. In 2015 more Americans died from drug overdose than car accidents. You can't drive a forklift or work heavy machinery if you can't pass a drug test.

Some of it is just a mismatch of skills with needs. Is hard to get someone to stay down on the farm after they've watched TV. Try getting an American sometime to scrape a house so it can be painted, or pick an apple when you have to live in austere conditions to be where that apple is when it needs to be picked. The house won't go anywhere, it just wont get painted. The apples will come in from Argentina because all the patriots still want apple pie for 4th of July and they won't pay $6 a pound.

The semantics of the situation can be parsed anyway you want. Florida and Texas need some help right now and Mexicans are ready, willing & able to do some of those dirty jobs.

Is easy to pontificate on a full stomach when your house hasn't just been demolished by a hurricane.

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