Chad one thing to think about is maybe the diesel option in the F150 wont be $6k more than the 5.4L option.(might of been brought up already?) I know in the Jeeps it was only like $1800 on the Libbys....not sure on the new Grands. I think it might be similar.

One question what kinda transmission will be in these new F150? Hopefully a 5spd or 6spd auto.

If that is the case it does cancel out that argument. I still am not sold that john Q public is ready for a diesel truck....The mileage argument is the most valid argument, but look at how hard it is to get the average consumer to buy a hybrid....Now make this person purchase a stinky smelly fuel that is harder to find then gas and costs more......

71jeepster you may have a point, but we'll wait to see, my guess is as demand for deisel goes up so will the cost, I see no reason for cost to come down as demand goes up.

Again Bones is right in the fact that you totally failed to notice whats really going on here. You thought that comparing a 5.9 chummins to a 2.0 VW is some how going to justify not putting larger displacement motors in a freakin TRUCK!

But anyway, why don't you listen to the Ford engineer that sits in front of the motor everyday that is actually going in the 2010 F150...

....continue arguing mute points!

I discussed the VW motor because Americans primary experience are with medium duty diesels stuffed into light duty vehicles. They think every diesel will run 600k miles and has high maintenence costs. Thats not true. I could have said the 2.8 VM Motori, or the 3.0 bluetec or whatever.

Why don't I listen to him? I do, if he makes sense, its Lothos I don't listen to :tonka: But when we are the company acutally designing the engine controls for half of the new diesels coming out, I don't need to talk to a calibration engineer at an OEM for info.

71jeepster you may have a point, but we'll wait to see, my guess is as demand for deisel goes up so will the cost, I see no reason for cost to come down as demand goes up.

I could see cost coming down if the migrate to more diesel production and lower the gasoline production if the market swings. Also, the diesel price right now doesn't really tell much. The gas prices swing too much over the year. Part of the year diesel is cheaper than gas.

If that is the case it does cancel out that argument. I still am not sold that john Q public is ready for a diesel truck....The mileage argument is the most valid argument, but look at how hard it is to get the average consumer to buy a hybrid....Now make this person purchase a stinky smelly fuel that is harder to find then gas and costs more......

71jeepster you may have a point, but we'll wait to see, my guess is as demand for deisel goes up so will the cost, I see no reason for cost to come down as demand goes up.

I don't say any of it because its my opinion, its not. I'm just stating the truth, the industry has decided its time to relaunch.

When I look at what I'm seeing, chevys, fords, dodges, cadillacs, nissans, toyotas, mercedes, vw, bmw, hyundai, and more, we are working on diesel programs with all of them. This isn't work trucks, these are cars and light duty SUVs and 1/2 tons. This is a) demand by consumers for mileage, and b) necessity to get cafe numbers.

If that is the case it does cancel out that argument. I still am not sold that john Q public is ready for a diesel truck....The mileage argument is the most valid argument, but look at how hard it is to get the average consumer to buy a hybrid....Now make this person purchase a stinky smelly fuel that is harder to find then gas and costs more......

I agree, its damn hard to find a diesel pump in some states. We had a hard time on our way to Nashville to fill up. Funny thing was fueling up the CRD Libbys, and having guys driving Dmax and Cummins coming up to us to ask us why we were at the diesel pump.:tonka:

People who buy a deisel F150 will do so for mileage and towing. I see a lot of F150 towing boats, campers, sleds. I'm sure if the upgrade isn't a shit ton of $$$ those same guys would spring for a diesel. Especially if it's quiet like the new Cummins or Dmax, so you can order drive thru food with the motor running. But you wont see the guys who bought a VW TDI for fuel mileage go out and buy a F150 for fuel mileage. Going to be a cool truck when it does come out.

John Q Public will want a diesel truck when its the only one he can get. At the rate C.A.F.E. Standards are going it will be the only feasible way to power a half-ton truck or anything under 8600 gvwr and be able to maintain CAFE, the damned greenies are gonna have us driving Smarts and an Aveo will be a Midsize sedan.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker

Actually, the new rule of thumb is you should make your tires bulge slightly more then skooterbuilt when he's wearing his tight ladies pants

I merely stated 35-40 was the target. 20-25 is NOT. that's short sighted design mentality. Without going into any detail there's a couple things in the works to get to that range plausibly. Not in time for the 2010 launch date, but its still a goal.

71jeepster you may have a point, but we'll wait to see, my guess is as demand for deisel goes up so will the cost, I see no reason for cost to come down as demand goes up.

I'm not gonna say it will but that it should is a reasonable statement. The only reason it is higher is because not all stations carry it so that makes the one's that do charge more because it's sorta like a locked market. The demand for diesel went up when gas prices sky rocketed and everybody started buying diesel vehicles, until then diesel was always much cheaper then gas! As it should be since there is less refining that goes into it. If there were as many diesel pumps as gas pumps diesel would most definitely be cheaper.

Also, I don't see why they are having such a hard time getting light duty motors to meet epa requirements. They already did it to semi's starting in 2007 requiring them to all use ULSD instead of LSD. My truck actually runs, pulls and gets better mileage on the ULSD and it's an 06 so it don't have the stricter emissions on it that require the ULSD. If you notice most diesel pickups are coughing more of the black smoke then semi's do and they are hauling around 80k lbs of truck and trailer. I know that don't mean that the pickups aren't running clean but I don't think they are running as clean as the newer big truck engines. But I could be wrong on that part?

The reason the Auto makers are having such a hard time meeting epa standards is because the standards are becoming ridiculous. The Greenie clubs are pressuring federal officials to impose such high standards when most of the members or supporters have no Idea how hard it is to make an engine run at that level of efficiency and cleanliness.
You also have to remember the fact that owners of diesels seem to tune them more lately and tuning the diesel causes them to make more power in turn they roll coal. Plus there are the people like Hacksaw :tonka: that need the Stacks and straitpipes:tonka:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker

Actually, the new rule of thumb is you should make your tires bulge slightly more then skooterbuilt when he's wearing his tight ladies pants