Per rumors, Love might require surgery on that hand of his and if thats the case min 3months. So even if thats remotely possible to trade for Love, might as well really give up on this season then if we're gona trade for him, otherwise try and take advantage of Minn situation and the lesser known name such as AK/Dwill and fillers. Unlikely but Minn might get as desperate as we are and they could essentially replace some of AK production with Budingers return and we could throw in Clark or something as well . AK is great glue guy in the mold of Odom, even better defensively if he's used properly and his contract expires same time as Pau so our cap situation doesn't go to hell like it would with Gay.

^^ That would work for me, even though I've been reluctant to let Pau go. Problem is Memphis is trying to shed salary. Gotta get a third team in the mix.

Why are you reluctant to let Pau go?

^^ I feel like I've talked on that point many, many times. But if you want it again, Pau is not worth as much now in trade value as he will be as an expiring contract. What Mitch can do with $19 million expiring? Wow, kind of boggles the mind. Remember that he got us Pau to begin with as a result of Kwame's $9 million expiring, half that amount. That single move put us in contention arguably for four years. It got us to the Finals three years straight and earned us two championships.

I understand that everyone is frustrated with Pau. I was one of the first on this board to get that way dating back to the preseason of Phil's last year. But still, to me that was his most frustrating season - because I couldn't see anything wrong with him. He wasn't hurt. He was coming off two championships. Vash has speculated that he was just worn out. I don't know. But he wasn't himself. And there was NEVER an explanation for what happened to him. Why he turned into the biggest marshmallow I'd ever seen before my eyes. People forget what a gnarly competitor he was for us. But that year, even though he put up decent numbers during the regular season I could see that he wasn't the same.

Last year he got traded, but he did the honorable thing unlike Odom, and he was a professional about it. He put his head down and he played for us. You may think that kind of thing is a given, but it isn't. He was bummed and he wasn't very effective as a third option under Brown, but I still commend him for playing and not whining too much. He whined afterward in the exit interviews but I get that. His points were fairly valid, even if basketball wisdom basically sides more with Brown in that debate. It was time to develop Bynum over Pau and it panned out to a large extent. Bynum was the more aggressive player, the hungrier player. Bynum's play improved a lot (as did his health for one season) and he earned his spot on the All Star Team for the first time.

So yeah, Pau's skills have diminished some, he hasn't ever totally recovered from whatever ailed him in Phil's last year, and he's still too hesitant at times. But to me, the main thing right now is that he's been playing hurt all year and that's messed with both him and the Lakers. I still like seeing him in the high post where he's a tremendous passer and great surveyor of the floor. I hate seeing out there shooting threes for the most part. I think we need to get back to using him in the high post where he belongs. I doubt we'll see him on the low block much except when Howard is out.

But most of all - Pau is our one chip left to really improve this roster. I don't want to see him sent out for peanuts or a short term fix. I still think his value will be highest in the offseason as a huge expiring contract. I think Mitch believes this too and that's why he is holding off.

^^ That would work for me, even though I've been reluctant to let Pau go. Problem is Memphis is trying to shed salary. Gotta get a third team in the mix.

Why are you reluctant to let Pau go?

^^ I feel like I've talked on that point many, many times. But if you want it again, Pau is not worth as much now in trade value as he will be as an expiring contract. What Mitch can do with $19 million expiring? Wow, kind of boggles the mind. Remember that he got us Pau to begin with as a result of Kwame's $9 million expiring, half that amount. That single move put us in contention arguably for four years. It got us to the Finals three years straight and earned us two championships.

I understand that everyone is frustrated with Pau. I was one of the first on this board to get that way dating back to the preseason of Phil's last year. But still, to me that was his most frustrating season - because I couldn't see anything wrong with him. He wasn't hurt. He was coming off two championships. Vash has speculated that he was just worn out. I don't know. But he wasn't himself. And there was NEVER an explanation for what happened to him. Why he turned into the biggest marshmallow I'd ever seen before my eyes. People forget what a gnarly competitor he was for us. But that year, even though he put up decent numbers during the regular season I could see that he wasn't the same.

Last year he got traded, but he did the honorable thing unlike Odom, and he was a professional about it. He put his head down and he played for us. You may think that kind of thing is a given, but it isn't. He was bummed and he wasn't very effective as a third option under Brown, but I still commend him for playing and not whining too much. He whined afterward in the exit interviews but I get that. His points were fairly valid, even if basketball wisdom basically sides more with Brown in that debate. It was time to develop Bynum over Pau and it panned out to a large extent. Bynum was the more aggressive player, the hungrier player. Bynum's play improved a lot (as did his health for one season) and he earned his spot on the All Star Team for the first time.

So yeah, Pau's skills have diminished some, he hasn't ever totally recovered from whatever ailed him in Phil's last year, and he's still too hesitant at times. But to me, the main thing right now is that he's been playing hurt all year and that's messed with both him and the Lakers. I still like seeing him in the high post where he's a tremendous passer and great surveyor of the floor. I hate seeing out there shooting threes for the most part. I think we need to get back to using him in the high post where he belongs. I doubt we'll see him on the low block much except when Howard is out.

But most of all - Pau is our one chip left to really improve this roster. I don't want to see him sent out for peanuts or a short term fix. I still think his value will be highest in the offseason as a huge expiring contract. I think Mitch believes this too and that's why he is holding off.

Lakerjones wrote:^^ No doubt. That would qualify as the kind of excellent trade that would work for me in moving Pau this year instead of next when he's an expiring.

It's not outside of the realm of possibility either if all they've looked at so far is Dudley and a pick for Gay. We can certainly get a better package out of Minnesota than that.

Hmm . . . I'm backpedaling now. I'm concerned about being locked into Gay's contract going forward. I don't think he's a savior type player. I think he's a definite quick fix solution to fit this current system, and definitely is a nice talent. But I don't have much faith in the current system anyway, so I don't think it's worth as big a chip as Pau. Keeping Pau til the offseason is better wisdom to me. Not convinced enough on Gay.

Lakerjones wrote:^^ No doubt. That would qualify as the kind of excellent trade that would work for me in moving Pau this year instead of next when he's an expiring.

It's not outside of the realm of possibility either if all they've looked at so far is Dudley and a pick for Gay. We can certainly get a better package out of Minnesota than that.

Hmm . . . I'm backpedaling now. I'm concerned about being locked into Gay's contract going forward. I don't think he's a savior type player. I think he's a definite quick fix solution to fit this current system, and definitely is a nice talent. But I don't have much faith in the current system anyway, so I don't think it's worth as big a chip as Pau. Keeping Pau til the offseason is better wisdom to me. Not convinced enough on Gay.

There's literally no chance you can get a better return for Gasol than Rudy Gay right now. If you're worried about injuries, Kevin Love already broke his hand again. I think Love in some crazy way would be the stretch for Gasol's value but only because Minnesota values him so lowly.

However! If we're all in on these next few years, which we clearly are since we're paying over 100 million dollars with NO DRAFT PICKS, we NEED to put the best product possible on the floor and Gay right now is a better product than Gasol.

A lineup of Nash/Bryant/Gay/Hill/Howard with Artest/Meeks/Jamison off the bench is better than having Gasol on this team. Gay provides youth, he provides a ton of athleticism, and he provides that new age look that we are adapting towards: small ball. If we could get Gay I'd do it in a second. I'd get [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.].

^^ I don't disagree with you that Gay is probably his best value as you said "right now." And I don't disagree that Gay would be a better fit "right now" in our squad than Gasol under the current system. I like Gay. He's a very talented kid and we could really use help at the SF position. Don't disagree with any of that.

However, I feel like Gay is not the best value we can get compared to Pau's value as a $19 million expiring this summer. I just don't. I feel like we'd be stuck putting all our eggs in one basket with Gay and his contract (he gets paid almost as much as Pau does - and he's not expiring, that's why Memphis wants him gone). There'd be no luxury tax relief at all, and we'd only get one player out of the move when it seems like we have a few holes we need to fill.

So I wouldn't do it. Close but no cigar for me. Probably the best trade I've heard, but not enough that I would pull that trigger if I were Mitch.

Then I'm afraid you'd never get to pull that trigger LJ. I don't think there's a better deal out there even with Gasol being an expiring contract next season. I don't think there's much else that we can get unless you wanted to just take Minnesota's trade straight up, which I don't think gives us enough to be successful.

I think you go get Gay, you start shedding the crap players and next season you're looking a lineup of two great, talented young guys in Gay and Howard (hopefully healthy), two legendary old guys in Kobe and Nash (also hopefully healthy), and you use them to fill out the roster behind Artest and Hill. You can definitely attract some nice free agents with those names. There's no question.

therealdeal wrote:Then I'm afraid you'd never get to pull that trigger LJ. I don't think there's a better deal out there even with Gasol being an expiring contract next season. I don't think there's much else that we can get unless you wanted to just take Minnesota's trade straight up, which I don't think gives us enough to be successful.

I think you go get Gay, you start shedding the crap players and next season you're looking a lineup of two great, talented young guys in Gay and Howard (hopefully healthy), two legendary old guys in Kobe and Nash (also hopefully healthy), and you use them to fill out the roster behind Artest and Hill. You can definitely attract some nice free agents with those names. There's no question.

Who or what do you think would be a better get than Gay?

Agree 1000000%. For this year, ain't no better realistic option than Gay and Gay is a borderline realistic opiion.