Forums

Pricing on Model X?

Pricing on Model X?

Submitted by Bennett R. on Mon, 2012-12-10 10:38

For the Model S, those that have a reservation prior to year-end will not be subject to the price increase that takes effect on Jan 1. Is there any similar advantage to making a Model X reservation before year-end? Or is the only advantage, at this point, that you get a spot earlier in line?

Alex K |
10 décembre 2012

Considering that they have not announced any prices, I don't think there will be any benefit from reserving a Model X before the end of year.

tommilone |
6 Janvier 2013

Why is there no pricing on the Model X?

Brian H |
6 Janvier 2013

Guidance has been given that it will cost about the same as an equally sized and equipped Model S. So use that.

tommilone |
21 Janvier 2013

I am not rich by any means but believe in the technology. Would seem silly to put a $5000 deposit on a vehicle that we do not even have pricing for. Sorry but I think this is bad business.

Brian H |
21 Janvier 2013

Think of it as reserving a place in line, which can be used as a deposit if you subsequently commit to buy. If.

Vawlkus |
21 Janvier 2013

It worked for the Model S tommy lad. Why would Tesla move away from something that works?

"Though he would not disclose pricing, Franz von Holzhausen, Tesla’s chief designer said Model X will be priced competitively with premium SUVs and about five to 10 per cent more than the Tesla S four-door sedan which starts at $57,400 US. Production is expected to begin next year at Tesla’s plant in Fremont, Calif."

Benz |
29 Janvier 2013

So the base price for a Tesla Model X with a 60 kWh battery and not any of the available options will be under USD 60,000?

GoTeslaChicago |
29 Janvier 2013

No, More likely $75,000 before tax credits.

Current base Model S is $59,400, add $10,000 for 60 kWh battery, add at least $5,000 premium for Model X, because it is bigger etc.

Benz |
29 Janvier 2013

For people from Europe that price will be even higher?

Brian H |
29 Janvier 2013

GTC;
I think the $5K "premium" might be more like 10%, or $7K. But that's a quibble. Within 10% of a similarly equipped Model S is the guideline.

Benz |
30 Janvier 2013

So the base price for a Tesla Model X with a 60 kWh battery, and a single motor, and further not any of the available options will be just under USD 80,000?

NumberOne |
30 Janvier 2013

Just to add. The cost of the battery will likely be lower by the time the Model X is delivered, so the difference might not be quite 10%. Also, Tesla may take into account what the market will bear, and adjust their margin accordingly. I do not think it unrealistic to expect a dual motor model for USD 80,000. There still is more than a year to go after all, so the cost of other technology and components may drop by then as well.

Benz |
30 Janvier 2013

@leonardD
Prices that drop are great.

SamFisher |
3 mars 2013

I hear that the Model X will cost $100,000.00 Canadian. How can anyone justify this kind of expenditure just to avoid a gasoline engine?

For example:

Lets look at a popular cross-over vehicle like the Dodge Journey RT with 283 HP V6 getting a conservative 20 miles per gallon (combined hwy/city).

The Dodge Journey R/T is a popular North American built cross over vehicle that costs under $33,000.00 Canadian, while the Tesla costs $100,000.00....a difference of $67,000.00.

Using 600 US gallons of gasoline, or approximately 2400 liters(I'm rounding off) you will get 12,000 miles at a cost of approximately $3,120.0 Canadian.

At $3,120.00 a year It would take more than 20 years to spend the 67,000 extra cost for the Tesla X.

The logic and the math don't add up. There needs to be some economic benefit to driving an EV.

I don't see any economic advantage in buying an Electric Tesla X over a cheaper fuel efficient gas powered cross-cross over such as the Dodge Journey.

The moral of this post is: get your prices down to 40,000.00 to 50,000.00, otherwise it's a no brainer to get a gas powered vehicle of similar size and style.

Vawlkus |
3 mars 2013

So..... you're comparing a Honda Civic to an Aston Martin then?

If you want cheap in the short term, and expensive in the long term, go ICE.
If you want Performance, plus to be OFF GAS for good, you go BEV.

VikingNoah |
3 mars 2013

Sam, hasn't the cost of gasoline tripled in 15 years? What cost per gallon are you supposing? I'm not saying you're wrong, but just want to imagine an accurate picture.

cloroxbb |
3 mars 2013

When I started driving, in 1998, I remember filling up for $0.79/gallon. So that is more than quadrupled in 15 years.

Brian H |
3 mars 2013

The cost can probably be estimated at 5-10% over the nearest equivalent Model S. And the reason people will spend that much? Because haven driven one, alternatives seem primitive. People will live on Macaroni and Cheese for 5 years to be able to make the payments. 1-to-1 price matching is just not on. ;)

ian t.wa.us |
3 mars 2013

SamFisher

Tell that to all the people spending twice and three times what they ever have on a car when they purchase the Model S. There are some fairly intelligent people out there that have done the math you just demonstrated for us and are still buying $100,000 sedans when a Honda Accord or Toyota Prius would suffice.

In other words, it isn't, necessarily, about the math of gas savings. There is most definitely something else "driving" these sales.

Cheers!

Timo |
3 mars 2013

SamFisher; There needs to be some economic benefit to driving an EV.

Simple question: why? If the car is better in every single other way except price, then why would it have to cost less? In order to compare to similar vehicle you need to compare it to something like Porsche Panamera 4s.

Rell2g |
5 mars 2013

I currently drive a '07 MB GL450 (7 passenger vehicle, original cost ~$70K). It cost me on average $10,000/annually on just gas alone. I priced a Model S fully equipped (non-signature) at ~82K. If I was to buy a 2013 MB GL450 it would cost me the same as an MS however the MS SAVES me the $10K in gas. Total engergy calculated (using the calculator provided on this website) is $660/year. That's $9340/yr in savings, so no Mr. SamFisher I cannot agree with you.

Rell2g |
5 mars 2013

Notice also I covered ONLY gas and cost of the vehicle, there are additional savings when you compare the $600/yr maintenance to $3K+ a year I've spent on this vehicle with its mandatory schedule maintenances and other mechanical issues

JrJerry |
6 mars 2013

I understand that Elon Musk needs all the high end people to have capital to grow this company!

But just think if Nikola Tesla was here today whom you have taken his name and are representing it, He stood for all people all over the world putting up an antenna in there home and having free electricity, and because he wanted this big powers destroyed him.

So why haven't you made a electric model Car for the working class from the start. $16,000.00 to $20.000.00 this is what Nikola Tesla would of done, If he was alive today he would be shacking his head at you. and saying you got this backwards.

I Love this company and its Models, but i feel its for the rich and privilege, not the common people.
Hope you get a clue.

And no the working class and poor need it NOW, not 10 years from today or 2 years from now. Now is TODAY!

Rethink this Please!!

Vawlkus |
6 mars 2013

Jerry, look up the Tesla Secret Master Plan.

Alexander7B |
6 mars 2013

@JrJerry

i agree with your aguments too. i'am not riched and in austria there is not tesla company and the UK people told me i must care with the austrian finance company about the using as company car. Here is only a 40.000 Euro car (with Taxes) allowed for company use, every thing thats bigger than this, have you pay private and every service, gas, energy ... you have pay in this procent private. so a model s/x i have to pay 60% from my private money. So there is no benifit for take one of this cars as company car.

Otherwise i like to have one, but i'am not riched.

The problem is the way of buisness, its every time a balance from how many people buy this product and how mutch you can produce. The best price is where you have the maximum income with less costs.

Brian H |
6 mars 2013

JrJerry, Alexander;

To make money off a low-cost car you must sell high volumes. To sell high volumes you must make high volumes. To make high volumes you must have a large, streamlined factory. To build and perfect a large factory you must have lotsa money, probably a few billion dollars. Elon did not have a few billion dollars to invest, so he could not build and equip a huge factory. Since he could not build a huge factory he could not make a high volume of cars. Since he could not build a high volume of cars he could not sell a high volume of cars. Since he could not sell a high volume of cars he could not make money. Since he could not make money he could not go into the high-volume low-cost car business.

In facing the math I do not think it is intelligence driving the sales. What drives most people to buy vehicles is not intelligent decision making processes. What drives most people is pride and vanity, and that is why so many people buy vehicles they end up selling within a year or two (losing a pile of money). Automakers advertise and sell an image which they attempt to imprint into the mind of the buyer, such as: You will look smart, look cool, feel good, be successful, attract women, people will envy you, etc.

Sure, you will stand out as you drive down the street in an EV and people stop you, question you, wish they had one, envy you, etc., but the little high we humans get from new vehicles wears off quickly, and then the payments become a burden. I have long since left that mindset behind me. I'll go further, go to more places, and look just as good in my shiny new Dodge.... with money saved and in my pocket to boot, thanks.

Now, the point of my first comment was, if the price comes down so more people can afford them, the decision to buy becomes an easy one. I stand by that regardless of any criticisms from nay sayers.

As far as the fella pointing out that the cost is not much more than a Porsche Panamera 4s, well, how many people can afford one of them? Porsche lovers will probably dispute that with you...LOL. Have you even looked at a Journey R/T? Even if I could afford the Porsche, I wouldn't buy one just to stroke my ego and have people oooo and ahhh over it, or bang their doors or shopping carts into it. The Dodge will last just as long if taken care of and even if it doesn't, I can buy three of them for the price of one ego boosting Porsche or a model x at a cost of 100,00.00

My point was these vehicles should be priced so more people can afford them and what I failed to say is that if more people could afford them, then more people would buy them, and this would have a greater impact on the environment. A company selling their vehicle under the premise that they care about the environment would have more credibility if they made their vehicle affordable to more people.

Something I did not factor into the cost of owning an EV is the cost of charging it every month which will show as an increase in your electrical bill. Sure, it is still cheaper than gas, but still an extra cost.

Another thing I did not factor in (and neither did the people who disagree with me) is that during 10 years of ownership you will be required to replace your battery pack at least once at a cost of 10,000.00 to 20,000.00.

I have an 11 year old gas guzzling SUV with 70 thousand miles on it and I just changed the battery and spark plugs last year at a cost of under $300. It runs like the day I purchased it. Oh, and Two oil changes a year is a hundred bucks. I'm laughing all the way to the bank.

**Bottom line: I would love to own a Tesla X. $50,000.00 Canadian is justifiable. Anything more than that and I see no personal or financial benefit. There are many parts that an EV does not require which should offset the cost of batteries and the overall vehicle building costs, so it's not like it can't be done.

Keep my comments in context and don't cherry pick. Try to get the real meaning I am trying to convey before you decide to jump on me and disagree.

SamFisher |
10 mars 2013

VikingNoah

Israel has discovered huge oil deposits in the last 3 years. In these deposits alone is enough oil to last 3,000 years. Look it up on Google.

Because of these facts, I believe oil prices will stay around the same, or probably drop. Also, as electric vehicles become more popular, gas engines and fuel will drop in price in order to encourage buyers. Watch and see.

Also consider what the cost of a new battery pack will be every 5 years or so.....not cheap and likely not coming down in price. Your power company is likely to increase their billing rate per KW too. So both vehicles can be effected by increases in costs.

SamFisher |
10 mars 2013

Timo

How is the model x vehicle better in every single way except price?

You ain't making it so just by making the statement. You will have to prove it with facts.

SamFisher |
10 mars 2013

Brian H

How many orders and deposits do you think they would get if they had a vehicle priced for the working man at say 16,000 to 20,000?

They would have more money than Bill Gates in no time flat, so your reasoning is flawed.

Get it?

cloroxbb |
10 mars 2013

@SamFisher

You realize that they CANNOT offer a car for that price yet unless they plan on losing money on every sale and going out of business correct?

Yes, they would get a crapload of reservations, but they still need to MAKE money in order to stay in business.

Solarwind |
10 mars 2013

<
SamFisher | MARCH 3, 2013 NEW
I hear that the Model X will cost $100,000.00 Canadian. How can anyone justify this kind of expenditure just to avoid a gasoline engine?

For example:

Lets look at a popular cross-over vehicle like the Dodge Journey RT with 283 HP V6 getting a conservative 20 miles per gallon (combined hwy/city).

The Dodge Journey R/T is a popular North American built cross over vehicle that costs under $33,000.00 Canadian, while the Tesla costs $100,000.00....a difference of $67,000.00.

Using 600 US gallons of gasoline, or approximately 2400 liters(I'm rounding off) you will get 12,000 miles at a cost of approximately $3,120.0 Canadian.

At $3,120.00 a year It would take more than 20 years to spend the 67,000 extra cost for the Tesla X.

The logic and the math don't add up. There needs to be some economic benefit to driving an EV.

I don't see any economic advantage in buying an Electric Tesla X over a cheaper fuel efficient gas powered cross-cross over such as the Dodge Journey.

The moral of this post is: get your prices down to 40,000.00 to 50,000.00, otherwise it's a no brainer to get a gas powered vehicle of similar size and style.>

Did you factor in the cost of Cancer and rebuilding cities??

synosik |
10 mars 2013

@SamFisher

People buy the Tesla Model X or S over other cars because they can afford it and that's it.

In fact, most people buying premium car brands do so because they can afford it. If we really wanted to save money, we'd be all driving Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas.

However, I haven't been through multiple years of college and work so hard to drive those cars. I work hard so that I can play hard and get the things I want.

My guess is that most people buying a Tesla thinks the same way. They simply "want" that car and it just happens they can afford it. I could be buying a Q7 or X5 M or other premium SUVs....but I won't get the same satisfaction feeling of getting the Model X. You only live once, so I drank the kool-aid and let's rock and roll!

ian t.wa.us |
10 mars 2013

SamFisher,
Tesla is planning to sell more affordable electric vehicles. The problem is that the public thinks of electric vehicles as glorified golf carts that aren't ready to compete on an equal playing field with your Dodge. And at the price of your Dodge they're not.

Bottom line is that the internal combustion engine automobile has been in develpment for a hundred years and the economies of scale are such that almost everyone can afford to buy a new one. Was that the case when Henry Ford first started selling the Model T?

As you can see with the current crop of "affordable" electric cars, they can't and don't compete with ICE cars because the range is viewed by most as only being suitable for in the city driving. That's because the technology isn't ready to be affordable. I've read that battery costs need to come down about 8% make the car you want Tesla to sell economically feasable.

Andre-nl |
11 mars 2013

SamFisher, SolarWind,

Nissan is in the business of selling affordable EV's and look where that is going. I am convinced that the future is good for the LEAF and other affordable EV's, but sales are not exactly flying. Actually Tesla is selling more high priced Model S's than Nissan is selling LEAFs. What can you learn from that?

We have in a capitalist economy, and you have to have a business plan so that your company survives. Telling Tesla to lower their prices is not a business plan.

Who thought that 5kg+ 'portable' telephones one day would become a gadget for the masses? Cell phones started with high prices too, only for wealthy people that wanted others to look at them in envy. Thank those big egos for buying these overpriced bricks back then, because without them the cell phone would have died a premature death.

This 'ego stroke factor' is now put to good use again to help the development of affordable EV's, and some years from now you can thank them again for funding your affordable EV.

Accept that the technology simply isn't there yet, and that Tesla can do very little to change that. They have to accept the state of technology as it is today and take it from there with a business plan that is based on realism with a small dose of idealism instead of the other way around.

Timo |
11 mars 2013

SamFisher, Model X has more space, is more durable, has better TC, is faster, is safer, looks better, has better driving experience etc.

In short, it is better car.

Brian H |
11 mars 2013

It is turning out, when push comes to shove, that a much wider slice of the public can afford the MS than anyone, probably including Elon, ever imagined. My WAG is that about 25-30% of those buying it never contemplated buying a car in this price range before, and about half of those are squeezing their budgets hard to handle it, in ways they would never dream of doing for ICE cars. And of those who can afford it, it requires only brief exposure to make the "sale".

The market potential for the MS is far greater than the SFs and JPs of this world imagine.

Vawlkus |
11 mars 2013

As for pricing questions (which have been repeated ad nausiam), I will simply repeat the answer:
Tesla
Secret
Master
Plan

Have a nice day.

ian t.wa.us |
11 mars 2013

Some other comments @SamFisher...

"Another thing I did not factor in (and neither did the people who disagree with me) is that during 10 years of ownership you will be required to replace your battery pack at least once at a cost of 10,000.00 to 20,000.00.

I have an 11 year old gas guzzling SUV with 70 thousand miles on it and I just changed the battery and spark plugs last year at a cost of under $300. It runs like the day I purchased it. Oh, and Two oil changes a year is a hundred bucks. I'm laughing all the way to the bank."

Required to replace the battery? No, not by a long shot. I'll wager these packs last 20 years with less than 20% degradation. Tesla has taken the management of the battery cells for longevity quite seriously.

I'll wager again that most owners will have changed them out in 10 years by choice though because new technology will have doubled the range and halved the charge times.

You need to fire up your calculator again SamFisher and do the math on how much you spent on gas in those 11 years for that SUV. I'm going to guess it would have paid for the cost of a new battery. How's the transmission in that 11 year old SUV? Probably will have needed some service in that time too (or very soon anyway).

As for my comments about why people are buying Model S's, I said the same thing you did in a lot less words. I agree people aren't buying them because it makes financial sense (didn't I say as much?). Automobiles are a luxury in this world. NOBODY needs one, not even a $15,000 one (or a $100,00.00 whatever number that is supposed to be ;-) ). You're right that people are buying them because they want to look cool, but they're also buying them because they want to be a part of something new, the gasolineless future of automotive transportation. It's about being an early adopter of a new, promising technology. When Tesla (or any other manufacturer) is selling a $20,000 sedan or small SUV that runs on batteries and you buy one, then think back to these people who were willing to spend their hard earned money to make it feasible for you to afford a less expensive version and thank them.

Cheers!

Brian H |
11 mars 2013

Comptroller to Sales Manager: "What were you thinking with that pricing? We're losing money on every sale!"
Sales Manager: "We intended to make it up on volume."

SamFisher |
12 mars 2013

@Solarwind asked me: "Did you factor in the cost of Cancer and rebuilding cities??"

Why? Are you telling me that the fuel efficiency standards and requirements that have been in effect (and increased) since the mid seventies has done nothing? Are you blaming internal combustion engines for cancer and causing cities to need rebuilding?

Are you aware that the average volcanic eruption spews more carbon and poison gas into the atmosphere in a few hours than all the internal combustion engines ever made? Seriously man, gas engines don't hold a candle to what natural events do. Even naturally caused forest fires (lightning strikes)cause more carbon each year than engines do.....and that carbon is needed for plants to live and make oxygen. So your point is? And don't tell me there are no environment concerns, or health concerns, with the battery packs, or electromagnetic energy emissions.

Bottom line: I want an EV and the model x would be one heck of a ride into the future.....and it would be more environmentally friendly, but the cost is too high for me to justify it right now.

SamFisher |
12 mars 2013

@Timo: you said, "Model X has more space, is more durable, has better TC, is faster, is safer, looks better, has better driving experience etc.

In short, it is better car." unquote.

More space? How much more space does it have than a Journey? $70,000.00 worth of more space?

How is it more durable? Does it have some kind of super suspension never before available? Is the frame and body panels made out of titanium?

What is TC?

Faster doesn't mean better, besides, with 285 hp the Journey does 0 to 60 mph in 5 to 6 seconds....how much faster do you need.

Driving experience is subjective, so your response still lacks facts.

SamFisher |
12 mars 2013

@goneskiian: Even if the battery technology used today gives 20 yrs of service and I don't factor it into the cost.....so what? My first cost analysis still stands and it doesn't effect my point.

SamFisher |
12 mars 2013

@goneskiian:

Take two identical vehicles. One with a gas powered drive train and the other with an electric drive train and battery pack.

Seriously guys, A Canadian kid took an older Chevy S10 and converted it to an electric vehicle for under $5,000.00....what does that tell you? It tells me that if you purchased a new vehicle without a gas engine and all the parts needed to run that gas engine, it would be a huge savings, and the conversion to EV would be less than $5,000.00. Now add in the cost of improving the battery system and guess what? There is no reason two identical vehicles could not be priced similarly(one being gas, the other being EV).

NEVER say it can't be done if a kid in Canada can do it.

Vawlkus |
12 mars 2013

Would you like to know the range on that S10 conversion Sam? It's a lot lower than you think it is.

"Seriously guys, A Canadian kid took an older Chevy S10 and converted it to an electric vehicle for under $5,000.00....what does that tell you?"

Seriously, it tells me that the S10 would have a dozen 6v lead acid batteries what would take overnight to recharge just to have 30 miles of range in good weather without using any heater. and the lead acid battery may need replacement in every couple of years. Of course there is no way you can build a AC system for under $5k, it will be DC system with no regenerative brake system.

will do 0 to 60 in probably... never. max speed will come in at about 50 mph.

Seriously... $5000 home made EV is... nothing more than a science project. Good for that kid. This is not same as state of art system costing millions of dollars to develope. Have you lookup how much it cost to buy just a bare lithium ion battery cell? and add a thermal management system and control system so it lasts 100K miles and provide consistant performance regardless of weather and safety.