Some of my favorite aspects of the last 3 expansions (minus MoP) were the late heroics added to fuel the story. Magisters was fun when it hit (trinket boss was great). The ICC heroics were challenging at first and helped add to the story. And I LOVED the heroics at the end of Cata. Running around with Illidan, etc. was great.

This expansion is just terrible for that sort of content. Very few dungeons. Too many scenarios. Challenge modes are kinda fun, but valor and transmog is all they give.

I really wish they would add a new dungeon or two every major raiding tier release....or at least one and maybe a scenario.

Do you miss cata dungeons? They had some story (ds dungeons) they had some difficulty level (e.g. Dragha Shadowburner - some ppl just leave it and go to next boss). Epic 3 dungeons from ICC... Chellenge Mode is fun, but cant replace hc(real hc) dungeons. Scenarios? Pff premade only and now its one shoot. I hope blizz will bring it back in 6.x .

MOP dunjeons do have stories too.
I remember doing the long quest chain from the valley of four winds and finishing it it in the dunjeon, for example.

I remember there being a sense of satisfaction at clearing a dungeon. Especially when the concept of heroic was still pretty new and the curiosity was peaking about how challenging these "new" dungeons were.

When you actually got a legitimate chance at winning some epic-level gear from the end boss of a heroic dungeon, you knew it was worth it. Magi/Warlocks used to go crazy for that staff out of heroic Sethekk Halls in preparation for Karazhan. Anyone who remembers the Sun Eater out of Mechanar? All the tanks and would-be tanks farmed the shit out of that dungeon for it every day!

so you want a dungeon that might require multiple clears to get the 1 piece of gear you want to last 1 hour

blizzard made it clear, you want challange do challange mode. heroic dungeons are just that, a max level dungeon with easy difficulity to gear newly dinged players for the rest of the content

You're right, I can't see anything wrong with it either.
And you're also correct in that the current definition of a heroic 5 man is inconsistent with how the term "heroic" is used to apply to raiding.

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Originally Posted by Thelxi

Cata t11 dungeons were horrible. Even in mostly 372 gear I would still very predictably wipe in random groups on certain bosses just trying to cap valor. The fire boss and the last boss of Grim Batol especially. It was a horrible waste of time. Absolutely horrible.

Why is this a problem? Seriously, why? You wipe sometimes, you go back and explain stuff, you kill the boss, you get the loot.
Pvpers have to accept the fact that they'll lose about half their games. And in pve victory is almost always inevitable. But I don't see why ANY failure is unacceptable just because its a 5 man.

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Originally Posted by Rucati

Hmm, nope, don't miss them that all. Just made grinding them more unbearable. Heroics existed as a way to get gear, nothing more, there are now many other ways to get better gear, therefore heroics really don't need to exist at all. I'd actually be fine if Blizzard made them impossible, literally impossible, a boss with infinite life or something, because they serve virtually zero purpose. The only reason to ever do heroics in BC/Wrath/Cata was for gear, you could grind them for hours on end, now there's no need. There are at least 4 other ways to get equal or better gear, so heroics are virtually useless.

A post from a player who wants to kill World of Warcraft. How depressing.

I find challenge modes to be deeply unsatisfying. On its own, the dungeon isn't terribly challenging at all. Adding 'challenge' by making you chain pull through it and use crap like invisibility potions to skip pulls is not very fun to me. I'd rather the dungeon just flat out be difficult to complete using all the skills at my disposal, as heroic raids are.

I find challenge modes to be deeply unsatisfying. On its own, the dungeon isn't terribly challenging at all. Adding 'challenge' by making you chain pull through it and use crap like invisibility potions to skip pulls is not very fun to me. I'd rather the dungeon just flat out be difficult to complete using all the skills at my disposal, as heroic raids are.

CM dungeons are more challenging that most of the dungeons that have been available throughout the game existence.
More difficult that Cataclysm early dungeons and we all know how quickly they have been nerfed.

I wouldn't mind harder CMs (with or without timer, I'm not really fan of the timer thing), but CMs as they are right now would have been a huge fail if it had been available for matchmaking (even without timer).

CM dungeons are more challenging that most of the dungeons that have been available throughout the game existence.

To be fair, throughout most of the game's existence I've thought 5-mans were too easy.

I think looking back honestly at Burning Crusade though what made those dungeons hard was just how limited your characters were, and how threat generation and aoe threat were dramatically lower. Tanks didn't have 3 major and 2 minor cooldowns. Warriors had shield wall on a 30 minute cooldown. Taunt had a 15 second cooldown and was melee range. It's not that the dungeons themselves were complex in any way.

It also helped that naked orcs in Blood Furnace punched tanks with 12k hp for 7k, so you could CC or just get outright globalled.