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It really depends on who is doing it and how they are doing it. If it is an honest shop it doesn't matter which system they use. Some believe flat-rate is a new thing but it has been around now for over 30-years that I know of so there is nothing new about it.

The shops I have a problem with in both systems are those who send young guys out on a job and let them learn to do plumbing on the customers dime. I also believe both systems should be open and tell the customer up front what their hourly rate is and how they bill. There is no substitution for the truth.

A car mechanic uses both, okay? In his office is the rate per hour, say 80.00 an hour. He'll then open his flat rate book, looks up the standard charge for the job and gives you that price. You take it or leave it, right?

You agree to the price and he tells you to come back in a few days to pick it up. Did you ever ask him how long it actually took? You will never know if it took him 10 minutes or one hour longer than quoted.

You can't go into his shop area because his "insurance won't allow it" and besides, there are really bad tempered grease monkeys living in the pits.

Plumbers don't have the luxury of sending the customer away for a few days, so we have to retrain them.

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The way we where first introduced to T&M (my father used to flat rate a long time ago) was a plumbing company that hired my dad to help them handle their drain cleaning service calls. They billed hourly for a man and hourly for a helper. They broke the rate down by the quarter hour. Also charged a service call, and equipment charges. We now charge by the truck instead of man and helper, and instead of breaking it up by the quarter hour we charge by the half hour. Till this day my father prefers T&M, he did flat rate for 30 years and T&M for the last 20.

Now if someone asks me what I charge to rod a main line I tell them what it would cost for the first hour then it would cost them so much per half hour there after if it takes longer. This way i do not confuse them saying Service call this much, Labor is this much, and there is a large machine charge.

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And he will cry about the price the whole time the work is being done too.But not every one is a doctor and a pricing system needs to be fair right. so why not tell the rate.

Does it really matter what the hourly rate is? From a customer perspective, all that matters is what you pay in the end. The flat rate, or hourly * hours. You can get ripped off or get a good deal with either one, it all depends on the plumber.

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how would you handle a trip out to look at a job say a special faucet and it has to be ordered you have a return trip do you apply and of the time towards the install of the new faucet.And do you start you time after you get to the job site. Do you keep the clock running while getting parts.

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If some one called me and I had to look the job over then leave for parts I stop the clock while getting the parts, then restart the clock when I am back. I always get paid for my time on the job. So if I came out looked things over and gave the person a choice what they could do, and they told me they have to think about it. I get my service call and first half hour charge on the spot. When they call me back to do the job we just put them back on the clock.

Very true. Everyone has their own system of how to charge and for what services. The key to charging anyone either way is knowing how much to charge. Lots of companies out there do not know their true cost to run the business and do not charge enough period, doesn't matter if they flat rate it or charge T&M.. .you have to charge enough to cover your total overhead and then some to make a profit.

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Would you like paying for time your plumber is not working on your problem. say just hand him and extra $300 to $50 well I guess it could be a pretty good tip. You see most of these guys get paid for what they sell I have a relitaive in the Auto repair buz and he could not live with the flat rate pratice you look for easy repairs that you know you can fix quick and get your money. Some plumbing company owners only pay their guys for hours they sell if no hours are sold you go home with nothing. So these guys look for stuff They turn good apprentices in to vacum sales guys. While they claim to be honest up front and make the hourly guy look bad he charges $90 or $125 per hour and what if he is slow. Yea well the whole time you are getting charged $130 to $210 per hour and the per hour is more time than needed. Hey its their choice this is still the usa. So Time your plumber and look up cost. Understand though every company has to make money to stay around, but you should have a right to know what you are paying for right.

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Around town it's not a big deal. We do travel for some commercial accounts- upwards of 75 mi. My times starts when I leave and ends when I get back. Plus a small fuel charge.

If they don't like it, they are free to get someone local.

As far as material goes, well I guess it depends on where your labor winds up at. Meaning, if you just cover costs with your labor and expect profit from the materials, or you separate labor and materials and try to make both profitable.

The way it used to be done, around here atleast, was keep labor as cheap as you could stand it and charge full boat list on the materials. If your material percentage is good enough, your profitable, if not....

I've tried to split the difference, so to speak. Keep labor rates a little higher and bring material prices down a touch.

This seems to be where the customers are the happiest and I'm the most profitable. May be different for you, though.