If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Indeed. Just last week I saw 200X Keldor (signed by all horsemen) on ebay, leaving the poor seller behind with only 30 bucks.

If I had told this story my 10 year younger self, he'd punch me in the face.

As many have said before... Any toy line post 1990/1992ish is not investment grade... That is when the huge collecting boom spiked and was then greatly aided by the internet proliferation.
Modern action figures are hot while they are hot and then bottom out when the craze is over... Just look at WOS Simpson, Early Spawn, Modern Star Wars POTF, Playmates Star Trek, etc etc etc... 200x has suffered the same fate for the most part.

Originally Posted by nicholighkun

So is it just a coincidence that a Filmation character is the first to be unavailable on DoS at the same time that the Filmation sub is going on sale?

Not at all... I fully expect none of the Filmation characters to be available for DoS.

Originally Posted by SCB

This thread would be 17 pages shorter if the figure not being offered DOS was Netossa.

or Karatti

Originally Posted by Nekk-ra

I also received my shipping notice for these two blokes. And it's really ****ing sad that people are too busy tearing each other apart to celebrate that these figures are literally on their way to us.

I am thrilled they are coming and totally FLOORED that they actually shipped before sale date... just wow!

You know, after 18 pages, I had a half dozen things to reply to, but I don't want to be "that guy". So screw it. Here goes.

Holy hell, the these are the same complaints and arguments that have been made for three or four years now.

I don't particularly like Toyguru. Mainly because of his poor PR skills. But he and Mattel have been engaging in these types of tactics for several years now. Of course it's "dirty pool" to push the Filmation sub. If it was really that offensive to people, they would have stopped collecting long ago. Unless this is finally "the straw", please dial it down on the outrage. I'm not thrilled with these tactics, but I understand them. This line is finite. Right now, we are closer to the end than we are the beginning. This always has been a niche line. People need to understand that no amount of new customers or advertising or day of stock was going to provide this line with the kind of mainstream appeal that other properties with accompanying media would enjoy. The fact that it has lasted as long as it has (despite the litany of issues) is a credit to some fantastic work by the 4 Horsemen and some seriously dedicated fans (sometimes to a fault). I don't like these kinds of tactics at all, but I can't necessarily blame Mattel for trying to get while the getting is good.

Can everyone please stop with the entitlement mentality? They sell things and we buy them. This goes for both subscribers and non-subscribers. There is no requirement in either direction for what they "should" make available or what we "need" to buy. Nothing is absolute in this situation (until you subscribe, at which point the only obligations are that you pay for that you agreed to, and they deliver what they promised-no more, no less). Also, subbers need to stuff it with the "tough luck! should have subbed!" garbage. It's not helping anything.

As for the pre-order model, the line would have long been over. With the additional tooling involved with many of these figures, we would have been lucky to have gotten the original 8-back figures. Instead, there have been well over 80 through the beginning of this year, pushing 100 by the end of this year, not counting beasts and giants. Have there been some duds? Of course. However, every figure is someone's favorite character. And I know there are several figures I wasn't interested in initially that I eventually bought and loved. The fact is, a pre-order system would have left this line as a shell of what it would have been. If you feel strongly about not "subsidizing" someone else's favorite character, simply don't subscribe.

Full disclosure, I have been a selective buyer until this year. In essence, I still am, just with a subscription. This go-round, I crunched some numbers and rolled the dice that I would be able to break even on the figures I chose to sell. I knew Ram-Man would be a hot commodity (and honestly, I bit on the notion that subbing could help ensure he would get made). As would Jitsu. As it is, the difference in their BBTS prices and what I paid will essentially erase what I lose on shipping. I made a conscious decision that the money lost on shipping for the figures I re-sell could be recouped by selling the more sought-after of those I don't want. And Fang-Man was always going to be a 'sell' for me. The only change is that he will likely help me re-coup any losses I may take if I decide to sell the FFM (who I am actually leaning towards holding on to). This is also the risk/reward you have with this type of setup. I bought the Transformers BotCon convention set for a few years running. Some of those sets don't hold their initial value. The "Shattered Glass" set, however, is going for right around $1500 on eBay.

I do still think you're wrong, sorry. I wasn't saying making him exclusive wasn't a bad idea, only that the FFM as an exclusive IS a bad idea. Semantics but important nonetheless.

That being said, making a good figure an exclusive is called incentive. Incentive sells things. This is an age old truth. Nice figure = sub enticement, crappy sub figure = why bother. Fang Man is no Shadow Weaver, but he might be a calculated cut to incentives future subscriptions. Or, it might not be on purpose. We don't know the full story. Scott might not even know the full story.

Nope your wrong if you can't see anything outside "The sub colored glasses" as a end all mean all you don't get retail Mattel can do it but chooses not too plain and simple...If anyone cares to read about it check my previous posts...Unless your work for the company making decisions or are a hands on when it comes to marketing (ha!) then you will never know How come people will pick a fight with you when:

1.They were not here in the beginning to see how things how fallen off
2.Seeing how a company that has an item decides to sit on it even though they spent the money on the rights,molds, etc. and they prety much are wasting money sitting when they could make them money
3.The people in charge of final say have NO clue about certain characters being "popular" or what will sell they See He-Man & Skeletor (And Batman variants out the ass!)they don't want to risk it even though it will pay off
4.Don't come in here with if you wanted one get a sub crap that's is tired,played and old already move along! This has nothing to do with the sub if you people remember King He-Man was announced to be the Sub figure LAST YEAR (Just like Shadow Weaver,Wun-Dar & Pre-Eternia Disguise He-Man were)One not two...

And what are you telling your "Fanbase" that you can jerk with them and threaten to make this sub-only line and NO Online sales you want to see the line die...Do that...

And to all of the smart ass "I got mine" and I "Don't care about you because you don't have a sub"

Grow up I had a sub and got rid of it after the first year with some people it's a money issue and some people it's that they don't want all the figures so why not let them be "Cherry Pickers"?

When this line first started it was cool but now alot of people have become "Scal-Por" and are only in the line to make big money on it and really don't care if it continues or not and it has become a lot of me,me,me and screw everyone else! Maybe this line shold go away after next year maybe then things will turn back to normal and people won't think that every MOTUC is worth $$$$$$$

I donīt get it either. How is a monthly figure, which you would get anyway a bonus? (speaking as a subber)
Or is the added bonus the whining of the pickers who will not get a Fang-Man. Or is it, once again, the battle "subbers vs. pickers".
Please @Uncle Jake indulge us

To be clear, I have nothing against people who cherry pick. My problem is with the cherry pickers who complain when they miss out on a figure. Especially the vitriolic ones.

It has been said before. People not subscribing is what will end this line. The only reason why there still is a CLASSICS brand is because of the subscribers. If it weren't for the ALL IN subscribers, there wouldn't even be a Fang Man made to miss out on.

So it is annoying to hear cherry pickers complain when they can't get a figure, when they knew full well in advance that this could happen. It certainly is not a bonus to read people whining about this.

And you bet I am happy this happened. Subscribers deserve bonus exclusive figures. It's like getting another bonus subscription figure. Sure it's not an add on figure like Shadow Weaver or King Grayskull, but it is a figure limited to only those that subscribe.

We are the ones giving much much more of our hard earned dollars to Mattel to sustain this line. We are the reason there is a MOTUC for you to cherry pick from in the first place.

Cherry pickers need to learn that if you roll the dice, sometimes you don't win. Just like Subscribers roll the dice and sometimes don't get figures they want.

Fangman $140?! Not gonna chance a quick sellout then overinflated prices on Jitsu.Just preordered him.Why couldn't Mattel find a way to make this work for everyoneJust think of all the new collectors they are gonna lose .Toy collecting is supposed to be fun....

That's just one seller listing it at that, it's not the going market. Look around a little there will be better deals out there.

Originally Posted by swind15

The negativity in this thread is crazy. My friends, we are all collectors of the same line of the same property we ALL love. This MOTUC Civil War is insane! The real enemy here is The Evil Mattel with their ruthless leader Scott-ak at the helm and they need to be stopped, For the honor of...

Mattel is not evil, they a company making a product that fans of the property or of incredible figures want. And even if you don't want them all they will be available, maybe not thru Matty but thru other avenues. What's funny is this coould actually help increase subscriptions as resellers may return/increase orders as there will be more of a profit to be made on the secondary market

Originally Posted by swind15

Not at all. The cherry pickers AND subscribers are the citizens/slaves of Etheria. Some submit to the authority more easily than others though.

Amazingly nobody is a "slave" to this line, people choose to collect or not.

Originally Posted by SCB

This thread would be 17 pages shorter if the figure not being offered DOS was Netossa.

I don't think they are trying to attract new customers with motuc,just finish the line and move on to the next thing.

If growing were a concern,then yes,by all means dos and rereleases,but the customers are not there,and Mattel proved by the over stock.

I still say if you are not collecting now,you never will. Motuc is not about expanding any more,sadly,it is about finishing.

This exactly. I agree 100%. They dont want to grow the line any longer, as is obvious by the sub only model, but go out with a bang. I have collected too many lines that I didnt buy the final stuff and get burned later on the after market prices. I will sub to the end. I bought 3 subs this year to ensure I didnt miss any of the items I wanted multiples on, because I heard their warning that some may not be available on DOS. I know not everyone can do this and I empathize with them, as I am an OCD toy collector that wants it all and cant have it all, so I get what I can.

I did not get through all these forum pages yet, but strictly in a business sense, I see a positive.

Apparently after news broke people rushed to BBTS and bought all remaining Fang Men...quickly. I am sure BBTS knew certain figures like Ram Man and Jitsu would fly off the shelves, as they did, but didn't quite know how to gauge Fang Man's popularity.

If this trend were to continue large resellers might see greater profit incentive to invest in a 2014 sub, especially when knowing it will be A list heavy.

Might not be a popular move, but may not be a bad one either. To the contrary.

I did not get through all these forum pages yet, but strictly in a business sense, I see a positive.

Apparently after news broke people rushed to BBTS and bought all remaining Fang Men...quickly. I am sure BBTS knew certain figures like Ram Man and Jitsu would fly off the shelves, as they did, but didn't quite know how to gauge Fang Man's popularity.

If this trend were to continue large resellers might see greater profit incentive to invest in a 2014 sub, especially when knowing it will be A list heavy.

Might not be a popular move, but may not be a bad one either. To the contrary.

Absolutely correct! If they want to bring the resellers back to the subscription, they need to kill DoS sales. This would guarantee sales for the resellers and sub sales would go up! The collector is free to "cherry pick", but they must do so from the secondary market.

I do think the real problem in this situation is why Fangman, why not Netossa? You can't tell me this was decided after Netossa.

This isn't saying Netossa is a bad figure, I don't truly think many if any MOTUC figures are bad there are just some that aren't highly desired. Another issue is this site is filled with more Filmation loyalists than others. If this site was built more on the fans who are more into vintage, there probably wouldn't be as much complaining.

Personally I prefer Draego-man for my dragon man over Fangman which was the ultimate turn down of Fangman for me.

One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
-Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

People need to understand that no amount of new customers or advertising or day of stock was going to provide this line with the kind of mainstream appeal that other properties with accompanying media would enjoy. The fact that it has lasted as long as it has (despite the litany of issues) is a credit to some fantastic work by the 4 Horsemen and some seriously dedicated fans (sometimes to a fault).

Great stuff. It's true. Business is business. I'm here because the 4H are knocking it out of the park and Mattel was smart enough to use their talents. The writing is on the wall and I can only hope Mattel doesn't manage to royally mess up on assembly, paint, shipping or any other CS or QC issue. 2014 is looking to be the finale if it goes through so let's start looking for ways to help each other out and see this thing to a decent conclusion.

It's pretty amazing looking back at how many figures we've been able to get out of this already!

I just want to know how many people have been able to avoid Ebay this whole time? A huge chunk of my collection comes from over there.

Great stuff. It's true. Business is business. I'm here because the 4H are knocking it out of the park and Mattel was smart enough to use their talents. The writing is on the wall and I can only hope Mattel doesn't manage to royally mess up on assembly, paint, shipping or any other CS or QC issue. 2014 is looking to be the finale if it goes through so let's start looking for ways to help each other out and see this thing to a decent conclusion.

It's pretty amazing looking back at how many figures we've been able to get out of this already!

I just want to know how many people have been able to avoid Ebay this whole time? A huge chunk of my collection comes from over there.

I have about 30 figures, and I started around August September, with buying figures off Matty and through here. I have yet to buy one through ebay. But with Teela being the way she is.

One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
-Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

I do think the real problem in this situation is why Fangman, why not Netossa? You can't tell me this was decided after Netossa.

I'd guess that Matty wanted to make sure 2013 started with something. I'm sure it would've looked pretty gloomy and doomy (Hey, can I trademark that one?) if January was a month of no-show's. I mean, there were already enough "Wow, great way to start the year, Matty!" comments as soon as Ram-man got delayed. Instead of Filmation fans being upset, it'd just be POP fans feeling they got shafted worse than Flutterina once again!

Why bother? Mattel sucks. There is no excuse for not aloting some DoS stock for fangman, or any other figure. Period. I'm really sick to death of people not getting that Mattel is using scum bag tactics, and I'm even sicker of the "that's how buisness works" notion. Garbage. This company knows that filmation characters will sell well, they know that Fangman is one of the top demanded of that series. There is no possible explanation for no DoS stock besides it being a scare tactic to rope people into subbing. I'm mostly a completist, but because of mattels boneheaded and insulting alotments near the end of the year (outrageous price tags on orders) when money's tight for most all of their customers, it makes it really hard to sign up for a sub, even though I plan on buying all figures if I have the money at the time. And here I am, willing and usually able to buy all figures, but because I literally cannot guarantee when I'll have the money to cover certain over-weight months, I get stiffed a figured I want, and would buy. If everyone here would learn to recognize the point of view of others, then we could all band together for the sake of the common good. For instance, it outrages me when cherry-pickers are given the shaft, but I'm not a cherry-picker. Same with the crappy PoP selection, which is my least favorite faction. This place makes me sick. People are outraged because others are outraged, and Mattel is just sitting back devising the next snare to catch prey. Well guess what subbers who are also Mattel loyalists, one day you'll be caught in that snare, but all the rest of us won't be around to give strength to your voice.

Absolutely correct! If they want to bring the resellers back to the subscription, they need to kill DoS sales. This would guarantee sales for the resellers and sub sales would go up! The collector is free to "cherry pick", but they must do so from the secondary market.

I don't think resellers (especially outfits like BBTS) have as limited capacity for memory that some "fans" do.

The 2011 bubble lost a lot of people money, when everyone and their brother (and sister, and grandma, and pet goldfish) bought extra subs to resell. As people keep saying, Ram-man is the last "huge" character. There are still undoubtedly A-listers, but he's the last AAA, so to speak.

There are enough "I buy 2 or 3 or 5 subs and resell most of the extras" people that those bigger places won't be burned again. Especially since all we have is Scott's word about the figures that will come next year, which as we all know is generally not regarded with anything but a grain of salt by even his most ardent supporters.

Considering how often BBTS in particular has MOTUC product on clearance, sometimes even less than original retail, I doubt they will be running to jump into this bubble again, knowing all the amateurs will be out in spades, it's doubtful these little games will fool them.

That's all these are, games - and the tricks that work on some "fans" are not going to have the same effect on business people who fully understand the market manipulation and artificial scarcity that Mattel can up-end at any time. Only King He-man is truly a sub-exclusive - Mattel could put Fang Man, or any other "non-DoS" figure, back up at any time and instantly devalue any of these figures, leaving them holding the bag, and it's 2011 all over again.

Whos right, whos wrong, who cares but I will say this, theres probably a couple of the people thats on the "Im mad I cant buy Fangman day of" side was one of the same ones that "Hoped the line died" back at sub up time.

The bottom line is that a true collector that wants the figure bad enough will find a way to get it

To be clear, I have nothing against people who cherry pick. My problem is with the cherry pickers who complain when they miss out on a figure. Especially the vitriolic ones.

It has been said before. People not subscribing is what will end this line. The only reason why there still is a CLASSICS brand is because of the subscribers. If it weren't for the ALL IN subscribers, there wouldn't even be a Fang Man made to miss out on.

So it is annoying to hear cherry pickers complain when they can't get a figure, when they knew full well in advance that this could happen. It certainly is not a bonus to read people whining about this.

And you bet I am happy this happened. Subscribers deserve bonus exclusive figures. It's like getting another bonus subscription figure. Sure it's not an add on figure like Shadow Weaver or King Grayskull, but it is a figure limited to only those that subscribe.

We are the ones giving much much more of our hard earned dollars to Mattel to sustain this line. We are the reason there is a MOTUC for you to cherry pick from in the first place.

Cherry pickers need to learn that if you roll the dice, sometimes you don't win. Just like Subscribers roll the dice and sometimes don't get figures they want.

Great post Uncle Jake! Hope this clarify any doubts cherry pickers may have about the MOTUC line...

Offering $2,500 for MOC or AFA graded Teela and Zodac 8 backs with "He-Man and the Power Sword" mini comic

Does no DOS Fang Man suck - probably. But Mattel said there would be some figures with little/no DOS stock. There was ample warning ahead of time. I can see 2014 being much more like this where only the sure fire sellers will have extra DOS figures. Mattel is wrapping up this line and looking to save and honestly, who can blame them?

Sweet! Hope I can nab a Strobo next month, otherwise I'll be carrying him back from Power-Con. It's pretty cool we get an early shot, but I won't be to upset if I miss him, there's something exciting about grabbing that exclusive at a convention, too.