TCW vs. Rebels debates are not allowed in the Television forum. As in, discussions that descend into TCW/Rebels bashing/gushing will be subject to Mod action. Contrasting the themes, story lines, characters, etc. between the shows is allowed (welcomed, even). "Versus" debates/arguments, however, are a deal-breaker.

The King should just be glad that these rebels harassing him, are not like the terrorists on my homeworld. You see those real terrorists, would have no problem murdering civilians, and will intentionally target them. They would harness "fear" as a weapon. They will strike terror through the hearts of some men.

The King just doesn't know how easy he has it, that the rebels he is fighting have good morals, and are trying not to harm innocent/civilian life.

I'm trying to decide if the Rebels are even going to win, and whether Steela would be Queen would depend on that. If these guys are supposed to be the precursor to the Rebel Alliance in the OT, they need to lose multiple times in TCW.

But that's continuity, and maybe they aren't supposed to be the Rebel Alliance anyway.

My thoughts on this arc so far:

Good:

1. I liked the political intrigue. This definitely isn't kids' show though, as kids wouldn't get it. I like the parallels with the United States going into small countries to assist rebels with guerrilla warfare--good 80s throwback if nothing else, although that still goes on quite a bit. The "insurgency" vs "terrorism" debate was good.

2. Anakin obviously knows that Ahsoka has feelings for Lux and he seems to sympathize; I like that. I'm sure he has to remind himself pretty often to "focus on the mission," and a lesson he would have learned in the gunship at Geonosis would be that if he doesn't, he puts the lives of multiple people in danger.

3. The Obi-Wan/Anakin banter was very Karen Miller-esque, as was the conversation I mentioned in #2, in which Anakin tries to teach Ahsoka about seeing the forest for the trees, even if he doesn't do well with that (and in ROTS will do worse with it). He knows what he is supposed to do and passes that along.

4. I liked Steela in this one; she was a feisty smartass. I wasn't crazy about her in 5.2.

Bad:

1. How many times has the Trojan Horse element been used over the past couple of millenia? Thank you, Captain Obvious.

2. Love triangle or quadrangle or whatever it is. Just UGH. And Lux is supposed to be a teenage Senator but he looks like a ten-year-old kid.

3. The use of terrorism--"we'll use their weapons" and the destruction of the power grid--was way too reminiscent of Al Qaida for me, and because of that, I was disgusted at the idea of the characters taking these actions being lauded as heroes. Maybe they aren't counting on anyone who was an adult on 9/11/01 watching the show?

The King should just be glad that these rebels harassing him, are not like the terrorists on my homeworld. You see those real terrorists, would have no problem murdering civilians, and will intentionally target them. They would harness "fear" as a weapon. They will strike terror through the hearts of some men.

The King just doesn't know how easy he has it, that the rebels he is fighting have good morals, and are trying not to harm innocent/civilian life.

3. The use of terrorism--"we'll use their weapons" and the destruction of the power grid--was way too reminiscent of Al Qaida for me, and because of that, I was disgusted at the idea of the characters taking these actions being lauded as heroes. Maybe they aren't counting on anyone who was an adult on 9/11/01 watching the show?

Um i don't think it was reminiscent of Al Qaida, and this is coming from someone who remembers quite well those days. Its not like the rebels hijacked a civilian transport/vehicle which is NOT designed for war (they hijacked a Tank instead) and then sent it with the intention to target and murder a big group of innocent/noncombatant people. The only similarity i see is that they are hijacking something that doesn't belong to them.....but that's about it.

And i would argue to that they are not causing "terrorism", just because they are rebels, doesn't necessarily mean they are terrorists.

3. The use of terrorism--"we'll use their weapons" and the destruction of the power grid--was way too reminiscent of Al Qaida for me, and because of that, I was disgusted at the idea of the characters taking these actions being lauded as heroes. Maybe they aren't counting on anyone who was an adult on 9/11/01 watching the show?

Um i don't think it was reminiscent of Al Qaida, and this is coming from someone who remembers quite well those days. Its not like the rebels hijacked a civilian transport/vehicle which is NOT designed for war (they hijacked a Tank instead) and then sent it with the intention to target and murder a big group of innocent/noncombatant people. The only similarity i see is that they are hijacking something that doesn't belong to them.....but that's about it.

And i would argue to that they are not causing "terrorism", just because they are rebels, doesn't necessarily mean they are terrorists.

Fair enough about the tank, it was the line itself that made me think of it.

And while I think the blowing up the power grid at least borders on terrorism, I don't think the insurgents are "terrorists" per se. I just don't think that the reaction to having one's power knocked out by a band of insurgents would not be to immediately laud them as heroes, whether that act dismantled the droids or not.

The King should just be glad that these rebels harassing him, are not like the terrorists on my homeworld. You see those real terrorists, would have no problem murdering civilians, and will intentionally target them. They would harness "fear" as a weapon. They will strike terror through the hearts of some men.

The King just doesn't know how easy he has it, that the rebels he is fighting have good morals, and are trying not to harm innocent/civilian life.

I don't think its that big a deal the King refers to the rebels as terrorists. Reminds me vaguely of how the Animorphs kids were often referred to by Visser as 'Terrorists'. A small band of guerrillas who hit targets they think will do alot of damage, albiet the later were seldom successful and did alot of damage trying. This being TCW these rebels will probably win. Just being realistic.

Then again the Animorphs did steal a plane and crash it through the roof of the school post 9/11 to destroy the Yeerk Pool.

The King should just be glad that these rebels harassing him, are not like the terrorists on my homeworld. You see those real terrorists, would have no problem murdering civilians, and will intentionally target them. They would harness "fear" as a weapon. They will strike terror through the hearts of some men.

The King just doesn't know how easy he has it, that the rebels he is fighting have good morals, and are trying not to harm innocent/civilian life.

Then again the Animorphs did steal a plane and crash it through the roof of the school post 9/11 to destroy the Yeerk Pool.

Was this in a tv series? And if it was, im surprised they would allow that post 9/11. What type of plane was it?

Aesthetically a very good episode. Only now can TCW portray large groups of diverse humans. From their clothing to their facial features, there was an excellent amount of diversity.

However, the writing was slightly more shaky. I might be the only one here who prefers A War On Two Fronts to Front Runners.

The problems with the moral dichotomy presented between terrorism and legitimate insurgency have been stated well by others. The rebels seem to have the full acceptance of the populace. If there's no grassroots support for the CIS, then who the hell voted Mina Bonteri into office?

On the other hand, the contrast between how the CIS-aligned characters and Republic-aligned characters referred to the insurgents ("terrorists" versus "rebels") was fairly well handled. The script never got into the moral debate, but it did show the differing perspectives on what counts as legitimate violence against a state. Technically, the rebels we see are partisans, and on Earth they'd be protected under international law as legitimate fighters, even if they don't wear uniforms. The droids and the king only refer to them as terrorists because of their different perspective, but in this case it's incorrect by RL standards. It's reminiscent of how historic governments have tried to delegitimise armed opponents. Hopefully the viewers will be motivated to learn that not all "terrorists" are actually terrorists unless they use force against non-combatants...

Which destroying the power grid might count as. Coercion is terrorism. If a blockade is an act of war, guess what sabotaging vital infrastructure is considered.

I was disappointed about the moral polarisation, but it's still possible that the above themes will be satisfying.

The love triangle was still more tolerable than AOTC's romantic subplot. However, I couldn't help but LOL at the "super special unexpected plot twist!" that Steela and Saw... are siblings. The more I think about it, the more absurd this seems. Did they seriously think this would alter the love triangle in any way? Ahsoka's stunned reaction at this non sequitur detail was really something to behold.

Its closest analogue would be:

Darth Vader: "Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father."

Luke Skywalker: "He told me enough. He told me you killed him."

Darth Vader: "No. Obi-Wan was my Master."

Hopefully this will actually have some payoff. As it stands, it's ridiculous.

The King should just be glad that these rebels harassing him, are not like the terrorists on my homeworld. You see those real terrorists, would have no problem murdering civilians, and will intentionally target them. They would harness "fear" as a weapon. They will strike terror through the hearts of some men.

The King just doesn't know how easy he has it, that the rebels he is fighting have good morals, and are trying not to harm innocent/civilian life.

Then again the Animorphs did steal a plane and crash it through the roof of the school post 9/11 to destroy the Yeerk Pool.

Was this in a tv series? And if it was, im surprised they would allow that post 9/11. What type of plane was it?

The book series, #37 The Weakness. My mistake, the book was publish in 99. I thought it was later than that (I might remember it that way because I picked the series back up in probably 01 or 02 and finished it. I remember being horrified by it) So that's an invalid thing from me. The old Animorphs database scholastic used to run had a commentary on that book and 9/11. The plane was a Learjet owned by Phillip Morrison USA according to the book.