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Funny thing is, I really don't know why he left to begin with....something about the old guys and new guys...hell he played 3 more seasons, he could have stayed and that would not have changed to outcome of 2008 and could very well have changed 2009. He could have had 4 Cups if not a 5th...I really don't know why he left...

Hmmm.....number retired? I would say not, because then you are opening up others who are borderline...If you retire #14, then you have to retire #91, #30, #8 maybe....it's just opens a big can of worms and then we will be just like the Avalanche...

I say #5, then #13 for sure...verdict is still out on #40...

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Funny thing is, I really don't know why he left to begin with....something about the old guys and new guys...hell he played 3 more seasons, he could have stayed and that would not have changed to outcome of 2008 and could very well have changed 2009. He could have had 4 Cups if not a 5th...I really don't know why he left

It's hearsay but apparently Shanny wasnt buying into the team system and didn't get along with the coach at the time.

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If you think about it though, what arguments do you have for Shanahan over Sundin? Yes, he scored more goals, but Sundin still had 564 goals. Sundin scored the same number of points (give or take a few) in almost 200 less games. I also think Sundin's international experience is a little more accomplished than Shanny's.

I think Shanhan's very low points per game stat hurt him. He'll get in eventuall though. If you look at this year's list, I could argue Shanny over Sundin, Oates or Bure, but you could argue the other way too. The only non-argument would be that Sakic is a lock over them all.

Oates...much better ppg than Shanny, but after that, not much to say.

Bure....the question mark there is the fact his career was cut short....did he do enough? I think his talents were superior to Shanahan's, his gpg and ppg stats blow Shanny's out of the water, but that has been shown in the past not to matter much when you are talking about shorter careers. Bure waited awhile to get in though.

I think the difference is Shanny was a power forward. And one of the best. He's the only player in NHL history with over 600 goals and 2,000 PIMs.

He's got equal leadership to Sundin and three more Cups. The points per game isn't as good, but they played different positions. He's the 2nd most goals by a left winger behind Robitaille. And he did that playing the left wing lock years in Detroit and stepping up to drop the gloves.

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I think the difference is Shanny was a power forward. And one of the best. He's the only player in NHL history with over 600 goals and 2,000 PIMs.

He's got equal leadership to Sundin and three more Cups. The points per game isn't as good, but they played different positions. He's the 2nd most goals by a left winger behind Robitaille. And he did that playing the left wing lock years in Detroit and stepping up to drop the gloves.

that, plus the fact that he put great numbers on an already starstudden team.

I'm big fan of Sundin, too, but no way he deserves the nod before Shanny. I'd be fine with both of them, but not when Sundin gets into HHOF in his first year while Shanaban is skipped. sorry. this is outrageous.

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I honestly think that Shanny gets in first ballot if he wasn't currently working in such a high profile position for the league. Something tells me that some members of the selection committee either don't really like the league office, or perhaps don't want to appear as if they're sucking up to the league office.

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It doesn't make ANY sense to me that Shanny be behind Sundin, but the votes are ambiguous in nature so.. whatever. Shanny should make it next year.

As far as the Wings' organization number retirement and the discussion of specific players:

14: Obviously Shanahan's number is not retired, and I'm ambivalent about whether I think it should or shouldn't be. He was a backbone of the Wings team for several years, second scoring in his position behind Luc, 600+ goals and 3 cups.. hard not to make the case, but he's obviously no Lidstrom or Yzerman, they set the bar very high. I wouldn't mind either way.

30: Chris Osgood, same as Shanahan, case could be made either way, but I consider him a career Wing because his departure from the Wings was an organizational choice.

91: Sergei Fedorov number not retired, nor should it be. He had a number of great years with the Wings but he had three major issues.. 1) several contract disputes, the last ended his tenure with the team on a very sour note because of the impact it had on the Wings ability to sign other UFA's given how long and drawn out it was, 2) while few would doubt when he tried he was amongst the best players in the league, he would have a tendency to just float around and put out little effort which was an enormous criticism of him in the late 90s/early 2000s, 3) probably more subjective than other two, the impression I got that he was irritated about not being captain, which played into the contract disputes and excessive floating.

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You must be joking. Shanny should've definitely made this list... but of all of them, I'd say only Sakic is a no-brainer not to replace. As others have stated, Sundin is the question mark here.

Bure had more talent, but a career ended short.

Oates was amazing, but never won a cup.

Sakic captained a team that won cups, contended for scoring trophies until very late in his career, defined the word class on the ice and off. I'm truly shocked at your naming him here. I'm a Red Wings fan through and through, but if Joe Sakic isn't a first ballotter, I don't know who is.

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Not entirely serious....I guess I'm still bitter about those good old playoff series we had with them. I'm not disagreeing with Joe's accomplishments, but think Shanny had a longer impact on his teams' success.

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(Now just an example) Does this mean Crosby can retire now and get into the hall considering just 170 points fewer in 268 fewer games? Pretty much means Eric Lindros is for sure now. Is Cam Neely's production the line you have to be over now?

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Oates and Bure get passed over how many times? Including the last two years when the inductees were Dino (alone), then Gilmour, Beflour, Nieuwendyk, and Howe. And I think there was another weak class they were eligible for. Now they get in over Shanny?

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I always liked Sundin, but there's no way he should've gotten in ahead of Shanny.

I could see Sundin getting in on a 1st ballot, and have always liked him, but not trying to knock Bure - he was IMHO too "one dimensional".

As you pointed out in a post later on - Shanny did alot of little things other than score goals - he learned how to be more defensively responsible by playing the left wing under Bowman, he finished his checks, and fought often (still holds the recoreds of 'Gordie Howe hat-tricks').

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