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I have lost so much respect for Smoker this arc. He has been a complete floormate. He has taken 3 loses this arc, and for someone who has been pegged as Luffys Garp...I am highly disappointed. I now consider him a fodder marine.

And Smoker loses again. I'm getting tired of seeing Smoker lose; he shouldn't be that weak. Probably Kuzan/Aokiji is there because Smoker contacted him, or it's just a lucky coincidence. Anyway, here's to hoping Smoker gets some training from Aokiji starting now, because he's going to need it to stay relevant at this rate. I like him too much as a character to see him constantly getting beaten all the time.

How many ppl r gonna repeat that smoker gettin his ass kicked speech...i do agree he doesnt live up to wat was expected but that counts only during his battke against kaw n maybe vergo....but sayin the same thing with DD ....oh come on ppl...smoker dont stand a chance...even law is smart enough to avoid confrontation with him

Makes sense. The whole returning to PH could have been a coincidence or gut feeling though. Maybe Aokiji could have been following Luffy or G5 for some reason. Dunno if Aokiji would get that friendly with Law so quickly, especially after knowing what he did to become a shichibukai.

Maybe Aokiji did his own research and managed to put two nad two together, and managed to come at the right time.

It's been two years since the War, depending on when (and how) they met, they could have known each other a reasonable amount of time. There are plenty of other plausible reasons for Aokiji to return. It is an island he knows well, he'd have plenty of reason to suspect something is wrong. We don't know anything that has happened to him since he lost to Akainu. For all we know his return is a coincidence, he is only now able to return and recover something or another that he left.

Originally Posted by Leonsagara

And Smoker loses again. I'm getting tired of seeing Smoker lose; he shouldn't be that weak. Probably Kuzan/Aokiji is there because Smoker contacted him, or it's just a lucky coincidence. Anyway, here's to hoping Smoker gets some training from Aokiji starting now, because he's going to need it to stay relevant at this rate. I like him too much as a character to see him constantly getting beaten all the time.

Why would Smoker have contacted him? He wouldn't have known about Doflamingo until after being captured, at which point it would have been to late. He would not have had much use to call Aokiji about Joker, Aokiji no longer has the authority to do anything. If someone contacted Aokiji, it would have had to have been early enough that he could arrive in time to actually be worth a damn. Considering how slow he moves, and that he is narcoleptic, if someone called him it would have to had have been part of a plan.

I have lost so much respect for Smoker this arc. He has been a complete floormate. He has taken 3 loses this arc, and for someone who has been pegged as Luffys Garp...I am highly disappointed. I now consider him a fodder marine.

Okay, this is starting to annoy me. Where in the manga or has Oda stated that Smoker is in fact Luffy's Garp?

Utterly nowhere. So why people keep saying this over and over like a mantra thinking, "If I repeat it, maybe it'll become reality!" baffles me to no end.

Spirits of Sorrow and Isolation, In the name of my Magoi, and my will to grant me a greater power, I order you and your members, Come Forth, Vinea!!

So law told smoker that he was going to green bit...just to trick DD on PH. Law put the timer on the boat where baby 5 and (cannt remember) fan guy were so he gets te time right for his departure to dress rosa. Everything is working according to plan. Even better then he have thought, DD going to PH and picking up his crew body parts and along getting confused of where law and SH are going next. There is gonna be another confrontation with DD crews (those left on dress rosa) and I wonder how strong those are. Also I see the SH and hearts pirates going different places for the purpose of breaking Kaidou's and make him weaker by defeating his crew and control over islands. Wonder if another supernova will join too, it would be really helpful. But it will be more badass if just Hearts and HS bring down kaidou.

I have a strong feeling that DD will join force with Kaidou to defeat Law and his plan. But again, it's gonna be a good training for luffy to fight DD before facing kaidou. I also believe DD and iceman(arg my memory is getting worse) will not fight. DD will have a small chat with him and will get what he wants( Where is Law going) as he said, he needs to break laws LAN before the next day. He is not looking for a fight. I believe DD is not as strong as the ice guy(bear with me) but he can put up a fight. Luffy needs to be at least on ice guy level to fight kaidou.
Overall, great chapter, a lots of news and explanations.

Because he would risk getting his subordinates killed along with him. Smoker gets very protective when it comes to harming his subordinates.
When a man such as Doflamingo makes a flashy entrance with CoC haki, and begins mowing down his subordinates, Smoker must get on guard. Didn't they teach him this much in his marine academy? Dofla even gave him enough time to get on guard. That's why I believe it's the gap in strength that caused this.

Is it known that Doflamingo has color of armament haki? If not, then Smoker could have underestimated him. Or, he could have tried to trap Doflamingo as well. He could have also tried to draw Doflamingo's attention away from his subordinates so they could run.

Originally Posted by Kaiten

It's been two years since the War, depending on when (and how) they met, they could have known each other a reasonable amount of time. There are plenty of other plausible reasons for Aokiji to return. It is an island he knows well, he'd have plenty of reason to suspect something is wrong. We don't know anything that has happened to him since he lost to Akainu. For all we know his return is a coincidence, he is only now able to return and recover something or another that he left.

Okay, this is starting to annoy me. Where in the manga or has Oda stated that Smoker is in fact Luffy's Garp?

Utterly nowhere. So why people keep saying this over and over like a mantra thinking, "If I repeat it, maybe it'll become reality!" baffles me to no end.

Oda likes to draw lose parallels between characters. Luffy's strawhat once belonged to Roger, to whom Luffy bears more than a passing resemblance. Just as Roger had Garp, many fans believe there will be a marine Luffy battles on and off throughout the New World, an adversary, but one he respects, and whom respects him. Smoker, obsessed with Luffy since Loguetown is the logical choice. Many fans are too beholden to shounen cliches though. Both act as if Luffy and Smoker have to be as powerful as Roger and Garp were then for the comparison to work. They forget that Luffy has only now reached the New World, and that Law has only been a Vice-Admiral two years or less. Both have room for growth. It's too early in the story to complain about Smoker's power levels. He's not supposed to be at the same level as Garp when Roger surrendered. The comparison between the two is quite valid though, and probably will grow with time.

Originally Posted by M3J

Is it known that Doflamingo has color of armament haki? If not, then Smoker could have underestimated him. Or, he could have tried to trap Doflamingo as well. He could have also tried to draw Doflamingo's attention away from his subordinates so they could run.

I would expect he does considering his level, that he has the rarer CoC, and can control it. The way the dodges Baby 5's attack looks a lot like CoA to me.

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True, true. I'm actually curious as to why or how Aokiji is at PH.

There are so many things I want to see right now. Why did Aokiji return to Punk Hazard, the reason Momo and Kin were so startled when Law mentioned Kaido, I what Kaido actually looks like, and what the rest of the Donquixote Pirates can do.

Very interesting thread...
I am a big fan of Smoker, and it's curious to see all the talk about Mr. Smoker's strength and overall ability.
Let's look first at the 3 cases on Punk Hazard where Smoker has been dropped to the floor.

First with Law, he flat out got beaten by an opponent who was better prepared and seemingly more capable with both his Haki and DF.
In this case Smoker lost what could have been called a quick but even match. He got beaten by a superior enemy. Law's greatest weapon was his mind...
He out thought Smoker.. (and pretty much everybody else in this arc..)

Second battle. Based on the outcome of his first fight Law has found himself in a compromising position and has to help Law in his plans to secure his heart and crew's safe exit. However there's no doubt that Vergo was a far superior Haki user and likely would have been big trouble for Smoker. Still it could be argued that Smoker's defeat was only so absolute due to his deal with Law. Even Vergo mentioned that it was unlike Smoker to rely on his DF while fighting a Haki user.. It's clear that Smoker was not solely fighting, but also focusing on stealing Law's heart without Vergo noticing. Does this mean Smoker didn't get beaten by Vergo? No. but does it mean in a battle head on things would have been so one sided?? We don't really know, but I'd say no..

And now to the present...
The guy has been through hell and back and is awaiting his ship home and Doflamingo comes in on a rampage.. Yes Smoker gets his ass handed to him.
Rightfully so DD is one of the "top elite" of the OP world.. And while Imo Smoker is far greater than a fodder marine, he's no elite Marine. A previously defeated Smoker is beaten by DD, and clearly on the verge of death. Why would he be so stupid to stand up to DD??? Well because that's his justice, no Bull$hit included... That's what endears me to him, his unwavering sense of justice... and his boldness.

In regards to the whole Smoker is the "Garp" of the New Era...
To me he's more the "Luffy" of the Marines...
How???? Well both Smoker and Luffy fearlessly jump into situations of peril and grave danger. They both have there own distorted (but somehow better) impressions of their "social status"... Luffy's sense of piracy and Smoker's sense of Justice are both built on freedom and the preservation of innocence.. While there methods and angles are different their deeds lead in similar directions....
We don't know if that was the case with Roger and Garp.. but maybe..

I see many arguments above that Speak like Smoker is some weakling... I wonder if that was the assumed case before PH??
And if that isn't the case, doesn't One Piece have more plot, substance and soul to it's characters than a Street Fighter game??

Smoker got slapped around and is clearly not at the top of the heap in any sense...
Are Law and Luffy at the top yet??? Isn't the whole NW about how the characters we have loved up til now become legends of renown??
I'm sure that based on the ass kicking we saw Smoker get, he will resolve himself to grow... Otherwise how can he keep up with Luffy???

Someone who uses CoC splendidly, and has a subordinate who uses CoA magnificently wouldn't be unable to use CoA. CoA isn't so special that Dofla wouldn't be able to use it. It would be the lamest excuse Oda could ever provide. Besides, there are a lot of facts that tilt heavily to the notion of Dofla having CoA. As for the two remaining suppositions, I don't think so. There are many smarter ways to do that

I never said Doflamingo can't use CoA, I said they might not know he can use it, or Smoker might not. I'm theorizing potentials here, as I find it weird Smoker let himself be backhanded by Doflamingo. I thought he'd have at least dodged it, unless Doflamingo predicted where Smoker would move and hit him there.

wtfbbq's up with you spamming the emoticon though? Are you making fun of us? is that a way of saying that you find it tedious or boring to reply to us that you listen to music or prefer listening to music instead? I feel quite insulted by the usage of that emoticon, sir.

Originally Posted by Kaiten

I would expect he does considering his level, that he has the rarer CoC, and can control it. The way the dodges Baby 5's attack looks a lot like CoA to me.

I do think he has CoA, I was just wondering how well known it was. Maybe he never needed CoA with his DF power.

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There are so many things I want to see right now. Why did Aokiji return to Punk Hazard, the reason Momo and Kin were so startled when Law mentioned Kaido, I what Kaido actually looks like, and what the rest of the Donquixote Pirates can do.

Wouldn't anyone be startled at mention of a Yonkou, though?

I thought we gained some insight into Kaidou's appearance, unless that was a fan art? We definitely saw more than a silhouette, but I'm not sure what chapter or if it was just fan art.

Re: One Piece 698 Discussion / 699 Predictions

Originally Posted by Poneglyph420

I agree entirely, as my last post articulated I think that Smoker's fatigue and unfortunate situation in facing a furious DD. .lead to his downfall
I might be improperly assuming things.. but did you read what I wrote??

It seems like we are in complete argeement.

Never the less.....
Can't wait to see what Aokiji does, and even more so... What Smoker's reaction to Aokiji is....

Gonna be biting my nails for weeks.

lol no i wasnt disagreeing with you

i.just think DD is a bad matchup for smoker, smoker would have to really develop some unique haki infused smoke attack to pull off a victory agaisnt a haki user capable of great control and some parameciam ability that would allow smoker to be surrounded by haki armament strings thst render thr evssivr ability of the smoke useless

im a fan of smokers as well

but i see no way for im.to beat DD

thats one thing i love about one piece, all fruit abilities seem.to have stregnths and weaknesses

I'm not so convince that Donfla has a CoC. because as mentioned before there are a little percent of people has this CoC in one piece world.. I have a theory that maybe Donfla just choke some of the G-5 soldiers with his invisible strings he might even have the ability to make it thicker so that it won't cut the necks. its just a theory guys.

I have lost so much respect for Smoker this arc. He has been a complete floormate. He has taken 3 loses this arc, and for someone who has been pegged as Luffys Garp...I am highly disappointed. I now consider him a fodder marine.

Yeah i think it is time for him to reconsider his career and to go back to being a big shot in Loguetown lol where he can wait for Luffy to be executed.His career his over.

Re: One Piece 698 Discussion / 699 Predictions

Imagine if Smoker had managed to put up a fight. All the same people would be yelling that Dofla was over hyped, Smoker couldn't even beat Vergo but somehow managed to touch Dofla.

Originally Posted by M3J

I never said Doflamingo can't use CoA, I said they might not know he can use it, or Smoker might not. I'm theorizing potentials here, as I find it weird Smoker let himself be backhanded by Doflamingo. I thought he'd have at least dodged it, unless Doflamingo predicted where Smoker would move and hit him there.

That raises a good point. Smoker didn't resist. Not even a little. He didn't try and dodge, didn't try protecting himself with CoA. It's not as if Dofla launched a surprise attack either. Smoker never even activated his fruit power.

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Wouldn't anyone be startled at mention of a Yonkou, though?

Those two were acting suspicious, the Strawhats noticed too. Kin's friend is also being held at Dressrosa.

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I thought we gained some insight into Kaidou's appearance, unless that was a fan art? We definitely saw more than a silhouette, but I'm not sure what chapter or if it was just fan art.

We did, he's shown him in silhouette back when Garp told us about the Yonkou for the first time, maybe again after that. When Mam was introduced she did not look much like her old silhouette, iirc. Oda could also change Kaido's appearance.