Asked about outside options to fill Melky Cabrera’s spot in left field, general manager Brian Sabean was direct: “Not too compelling or interesting,” he said Thursday morning.

Thus, it’s Justin Christian getting another crack at the big leagues, but first it’ll be Gregor Blanco getting another crack at being an everyday outfielder. Eric Hacker is also coming back to the big leagues, but not as a starter. He’ll be the long reliever for now.

“We’ve really been without a long man or somebody with some ability to give us some length,” Sabean said. “Mota was our jack-of-all trades the last couple of seasons and his absence created that.”

While looking for internal fixes, Sabean did not consider top prospect Gary Brown, who has had an up-and-down season at Double-A Richmond.

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“He’s still learning,” Sabean said. “He’s more proficient against left-handed pitchers and we also know he’s a center fielder at this time. I don’t see that (move) as a possibility.”

Sabean added that things could change over time, but said, “It’s not on the front burner of our thinking.”
Melky Cabrera remains on the front burner a day after the day. Sabean said yesterday was an emotional one. He was notified of the suspension and immediately went to tell Bochy, before holding a team meeting.

“It was deflating,” he said. “I didn’t see something like this coming. We’ve all been around this game a long time and you’re used to making changes and adjustments. But you get punched in the stomach and you’ve got no choice but to figure out how to move on.”

He said it was too early to know if the Giants have permanently moved on from Melky. As for the reported contract talks a few weeks back, Sabean confirmed that they were purely conceptual. “It never really went anywhere,” he said.

Sabean, like the players yesterday, is focused on the immediate future. He challenged his team to play better in all aspects and start winning series, especially at home.

“It’s going to take everybody’s help,” he said. “It’s greater than the lineup, we’ve got to pitch better than we did yesterday and win at home.”

Still, Sabean is happy with the 25 players he still has in the clubhouse. “If you had told me we could lose Wilson and Panda twice and Mota, now lose Cabrera… We’ve got a survival instinct, seemingly. It’s a good group, they’ve got enough character.”

As for those, Mota and Cabrera, who have left the Giants hanging at times, Sabean had stronger words.

“You have two veteran players that should know better and evidently don’t,” he said.

This is baseball. Our management shouldn’t act so oblivious and judgmental. This is the game they know.

gray whale

Was hoping for some flashier names, but *really* hoping Blanco can get it going again. He’s so fun to watch when he’s on!

Go Giants!!!

gray whale

POSITIVE PARROT!

Lefty

Christian and Hacker are fine. They’re both solid, high-character guys and both a little older. The Giants DO need a long man with Mota gone and Penny and Loux both on the DL. And even though they’re not saying this, Hacker could take a spot start if…someone…needs to skip a start or two and work on things in the bullpen.

Blanco’s a good guy, too, and I’m glad for him that he’s getting another shot. He and Christian are both better defensively than Angel or Pence, so having one of them out there helps the outfield. That’s another big loss with Melky–he played a very solid LF most days.

As I said earlier, there is no one in the minors or on waivers who can replace Melky. The other guys are going to have to step up. Having some support pieces like a solid long reliever and a backup outfielder will help the starters do what they need to do.

Mavo

A repost of my venting from late last night… I still feel the same way!
=================================

All this talk about being “disappointed” in Melky and he was a “good teammate”!! BS!! I am mad as hell at all these pampered rich ballplayers that cheat and make a mockery of the game I have loved all my life!! I felt betrayed as Barry was obliterating my idol’s HR records too. It has gotten to the point we can’t tell what is real and what is drug enhanced!! I am sure I’d have been a hell of a player too at 27 while quadrupling my testosterone levels! I am sick of this steroid crap and all who have cheated my game. I hope the Giants, if they do make it into the playoffs, take the high road and tell Melky to take a hike when he is off his suspension. And I cannot believe they are really considering bringing the biggest cheater of all G Mota back!! Release the cheat and be done with it… set a damn example for other teams … show some class!!

I am NOT merely disappointed in Melky … I feel like a sucker who was taken for a ride … just like I did the day I saw Barry hit number 60 and wondered out loud if any of this was REAL…. it sadly was NOT!! How long would Willie Mays have played and how many HRs would he have put up if he had this crap?

Baseball needs to come down HARD on this problem … not the way it has been done so far. Institute blood testing whether the union likes it or not. Then ban these guys for a year first offense AND void any contract that they are under at the time. Then ban them for a lifetime on 2nd offense. Maybe then idiots like Melky will not try to make it to the big payday, the big kill, by risking the testing program!!

A sad day for not just Giants fan … but ALL baseball fans today!!!

How is that for using exclamations .. sue me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

orangeandblack

Agree this is a character, and plenty talented club. Heck, what if Melky had torn a tendon instead? Same result. You figure out how to carry on. Stay hungry!

Obrother

Let’s all get behind Bianco. Maybe he’ll feel that this is the chance to show the first part wasn’t a fluke. If he plays like that he’ll fill Melkys spot since the addition of pence. If he does the giants won’t skip a beat. This team isn’t done like many say-maybe this will propel the guys to greater heights. I’m behind this team and the players they have right now. As far as Melky getting 50 game suspension it’s time to move on.

Mark Raines

Which member of the bullpen is being sent down to make room for Hacker?

JC

Sabean should know better than to bring up more flop to this team. Why back to a 13 man staff is ridiculous? I wanna see what Nady can offer at the big league level. I know what Christian and others before him cannot do and that is hit at the major league level. Terrible, just terrible. Giants should be going down to the dumpster soon.

Scooter McFinch

Didn’t Penny go on DL – so they were two yesterday- not be confused with Too Short.

Vogey for Cy Young

Lots of bubbling up passion here last few days.

Shout out to 3/kings, 3KING or whomever, you’re a tad all over the map and since you are a professed user of a certain rec drug and contantly say stuff like ‘I asked my girl if we should go to the game today but then she asked who’s pitching and you say Zito’ and so on and so on – just saying you are way all over the giants fan map.

To me and “my Vogey” the only way the Team and the management staff can approach this and move forward is to treat the Cabrera thing like a season ending injury. It is not, we all know that. Can’t wish Nate was still here, that would not matter. The only thing that we now know about the Nate era is Blanco was not the player Nate is. Neither Nate nor Gregor are supers starts but Nate was home grown and a real SF Giants whereas Blanco was a tremendous Sabean dumpster dive. One has what the other one doesn’t.

Scooter McFinch

***Didn’t Penny go on the DL – so they were two short yesterday- not be confused with Too Short.

CB

I don’t like the moves at all. There has to be something better internally than Christian? And Hacker is intriguing as starter but out of the bullpen in a 13 man staff. We need bench depth and more options to see who can step in LF and contribute. My guy is Blanco (2 for 4) rbi filling back in there. I think Blanco needs to be back in our leadoff spot though. Angel Pagan went 0 for 5 and besides the Rockies series at hitter friendly park, he has been cold all 2nd half for us. Go with what got us where we r right now and that is Blanco in the leadoff spot. Pagan should bat in 6 hole when he was hot. get Theriot out of the lineup. Scutaro should not sit, period. He is one of our better and more consistent hitters.

BENCH:
Hector Sanchez C
Brett Pill 1B (when he’s eligible to be called up)
Joaquin Arias IF
Ryan Theriot IF
Justin Christian OF
Xavier Nady OF (when he’s ready to be called up)

Mark Raines

5. Mavo,

Stop living in fantasy land.

Scooter McFinch

I assume Sandoval is going to fill the #3 slot in the lineup, but I’d be amused if they gave Belt a shot. Can’t argue with the OBP and the hot streak, let’s see what he can do with the league’s best hitter behind him:

There’s still some runs up in that business. The pitching would be the only thing that holds them back. That and the Dodgers going ballistic on the remainder of the schedule.

-Orange&Black, you gave a shout out to Juan Perez. Excellent work. Yeah, he’s a little old for AA, but he hits. Francisco Peguero hit over .300 in the EL at the same age as Gary Brown, so there is that.

And if you don’t like names being thrown up against the wall, you’re in the wrong place and GTFO.

Happ2125

Giants keeping the 13 man staff is flat out ridiculous. What a crock. This team needs some bench depth and another hitting option. Christian? Really, ewww. I put him in the AAAA type. I rather take a flyer on Nady or see what Peguero has. Too bad Kieshnick is hurt right now, he was tearing it up in Triple-A and could filled in LF.

@Mark Raines – your attitude is what is enabling this PED to keep happening!! I am NOT in fantasy land… I want the game I love cleaned up so we can trust what we see on the field is REAL and not some drug enhanced mirage. Your the one … and sadly too many others … who need to wake up and not accept that cheating the game is … OK!!

Mavo

It is also the wimpy enabling attitude of the players that allow this crap to continue! Instead of Buster saying “Ultimately it was a bad decision … ” … how about something like “I am sick and tired of fellow players trying to get an advantage over clean players like myself! And I am PISSED at Melky for screwing up our season by being so stupid!!”

Until the players realize this and that players who cheat .. ultimately cheat them and their families … I am afraid this will continue. As I said before, I am through with all the mild statements of how ‘disappointed’ they are!! It is time to rid baseball and all sports of this BS … NOW!!

We currently have two vacancies next season in OF. LF and 2B. Cabrera’s suspension has dropped his price and value so Giants should stick with him give him a 2nd chance because I think it is a mirage and that he will still produce even if he is clean next year. Braun can still produce and we all know his appeal stuff was rigged. PED’s make you perform better, that is why they are called performance enhancing drugs. At least Melky is admitting to it and facing the consequences. Braun still gets to play his whole season, didn’t miss 50 games and kept his MVP title. Cabrera is a talented five-dimensional player and PED’s or not, this is a big loss and huge blow to our squad and Sabes calls up flop to replace him. Just dumb move after dumb move.

And thinking Huff as an option is ridiculous too. Guy has a bum knee, can’t hack it anymore. Waste of an option if you ask me. Nady (isn’t doin good numbers wise in AAA) but I think he has enough experience at the big league level to hit here and contribute more than a Christian or Burriss or Whiteside or Huff. \

brown

Sabean didn’t see this coming, even though Baggs pointed it out weeks ago?

SurfCity

Sabean said:

While looking for internal fixes, Sabean did not consider top prospect Gary Brown, who has had an up-and-down season at Double-A Richmond.

“He’s still learning,” Sabean said. “He’s more proficient against left-handed pitchers and we also know he’s a center fielder at this time. I don’t see that (move) as a possibility.”

—-

I think this is pretty smart. Bringing up Brown has the potential to be a bigger fiasco than the yoyo-ing of Brandon Belt.

With a different manager, sure maybe give Brown a shot. With Bochy? Forget it – he just doesn’t have the makeup to handle the situation

giantc

Please Mavo — I am so tired of hearing how pure the game was in the 60′s. It is well-documented that the stars of the 60′s and 70′s used greenies (speed) to help get them through the long season.

Slash78

This team doesn’t have a survival instinct. Only Sabean.

This is his out. This is his excuse for underachieving with a record budget. He can blame Melky, maybe Huff and some others. There is nothing in the farm system. The 25-man roster is weak. They are going to sputter to another embarassing finish. And Sabean has already admitted he’s not going to do anything the rest of the year.

But hey, he can point the finger at someone else, so he feels safe.

CB

@Mavo

Good luck with that protest…but I feel you. It is going to never change cause guys will always want to find ways to be a step up on someone and revert to those good ol’ PED’s. If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying. But yeah.

CB

So why did they sign Nady if they aren’t going to take a flyer on him and call him up? You got more proven veteran guys out there in Johnny Damon and Bobby Abreu both LF, who are much better hitters than Justin Christian or a Blanco or other internal options Giants have and have been through the pennant stretch and playoff contention.

CB

Sabes always counters good moves: Scutaro, Pence with terrible moves.

SurfCity

General Comment: People cheat in the Olympics where there’s no prize money. Although there is a chance for endorsement money.

SurfCity

CB, answer is likely that Nady is putting up Mendoza line numbers in the minors.

JC

You can see how deflated and different this team looks without Melky and continued struggles of their ace Lincecum. And Sabes counteracting these moves with Christian and Hacker lol…sometimes I wish I could be a GM for a day. I would take risks. He may not be the so-called big league ready but Gary Brown is a game changer with some of his tools: speed, defense, good contact hitter, smart baserunner. Look at Manny Machado getting called up from Double-A and having instant impact with the O’s. His minor numbers in Double-A were so so and not that good to warrant a call up but his hype and talents is what got him up here.

The fans want to see Brown. We sellout every night and I honestly think Brown could help us more than these flop AAAA players like Christian, Whiteside, Pill, Burriss, etc.

SurfCity

Lefty, Blanco was in this state at the beginning of the season where he seemed to overachieve on a daily basis. I remember reading a quote from him saying that he was playing the best baseball in his life and he was really excited to be here. Here’s hoping someone figures out how to get *that* Blanco playing again.

CB

@surfcity Sometimes minor league numbers are irrelevant especially for a guy like Nady with big league experience. He has had a lot of time off and injured when he was with Nats. But given the time and throw him in meaningful games and situations and some success in the past with Pirates and Cubs, I think he could be a big bat off bench and contribute.

I know what Christian can give us at the big league level and that is not good.

Nameless bob

Mavo, you are mad at Cabrerra for screwing up your season. If he hadnt used the PED he would have played like the middling player he was before PED and the Giants would be 5 games or so out of first, season effectively screwed. Without the PED he would not be the all star MVP. It all would not have happened. You cant be mad at him for losing Melky Cabrerra by doing the same act that made him Melky Cabrerra.

dj

Alex:

What about Mota? Why did you not ask Sabean ?
Will Sabean call him up when he is eligible in 2 weeks?

Matthew

CB – likely because he’s not even hitting Timmy’s weight in the MINORS.

Our options are clearly limited. The 13 pitcher thing is dumb, but I’m not way down on Christian.

Time for the White Shark to shine… This seasons version of 2010 Torres

SurfCity

CB, well yeah but by extension “sometimes” many things are true. But what I look at is, he was cut another team and now in the minors he can’t produce. That’s my answer anyway, to your question. Trying Nady is the “lightening in a bottle” thing that people love to say, but really just means it’s an extreme longshot.

Happ2125

Sabean is a GM who doesn’t take low cost risks. He takes high-cost risks. Give up a top catching prospect for Pence (13 million potential salary), trade top pitching prized prospect Wheeler for rental in Beltran last season. Yet he won’t take a low risk on calling Brown up, thinking he is not ready, when you won’t know until you throw him out there. September callups, you get prospects like him up to get their feet wet. But don’t you want to see what the kid Brown has and if you don’t have spend 6-8 million per year on a CF like Pagan when you can get Brown as a cheap option and leadoff in CF next year. If it works out that way,or if Brown falters a bit, you can sign Pagan for one more season and still start Brown in Triple-A next year and then bring him up.

Happ2125

It is a low risk move, IMO in calling Brown up or even Nady. It can’t hurt. We know what the flop Christian and those AAAA types bring to the table. These moves don’t get me excited in the aftermath of Cabrera’s suspension. I actually feel worse on our outlook now with those additions and compounded with the loss of Cabrera and continued struggles of Lincecum.

Mark Raines

18. 19. Mavo,
Your failure to understand human nature and expect humans to behave any differently is what squarely puts you in fantasy land.

CB

He got cut by Nats cause he was hurt at the time and they needed to create a 40 man roster spot for some of their additions they brought in. Nady is healthy now, but he missed a lot of time and is getting his timing back, so maybe he isn’t ready yet but don’t be deceived by minor league numbers in a small sample size. I just think Nady and his experience and that he actually has had some success at the big league level in more than one full season with the Pirates and Cubs and partially with the Pads will help us more and have a higher probability to contribute to us and at the least provide a presence cause of the track record.

http://nada paul in p.v.

Well, we knew the cupboard was dry, so Sabean went with the safe choices. If things go south he can still pull a waiver-wire deal – but he’s not gonna deal out of desperation, at least just yet. And remember the last time Blanco got significant playing time he caught on fire (he got 2 hits yesterday) – there’s still 44 games left, and as one astute observer said, this is a 3rd-place team – but so are the Doyers and Snakes.

On another note (seconding Slash/Oracle’s acute comments on Kawakami) – after forcing myself to read his beat-a-dead-horse column – I remember what they used to say about (us) state auditors when we arrived for a review – we were called in to shoot the wounded, after the battle is over…

Stan

Radnich says it was racism. Why Braun was protected and Melky was not. Uncle Gary is always right.

Today’s players with today’s money are more stupid than the players of yester-year. With the entertainment type money that players make to play the same game they played as kids, they could hire 3-4 chefs round the clock (Sandoval) and hire a live in trainer to stay in their guest cottage or on the 4th floor of their condo.

Your passion for the game being cleaned up is wonderful – but you and I both know the game “back then” had its own set of unsophisticated enhancements. I was at the Stick once in 1985 and on the clubhouse food table was a fish bowl of “beans” and about 9 pots of coffee.

Amphetamines were everywhere in some way shape or form. Todays player cannot play NEAR 162 because they are dragging w/out the apparent help.

TWC hit on a huge point. The fact that these players even THINK that taking JUNK will help them compete and last…

Remember, Yogi said 90% of baseball is 50% mental.

Stan

Btw, Lincecum has for sure gained weight. In every interview you can see it. To bad he didn’t admit it was a bad idea to lose 40 pounds before the season started.
That 100mill offer will never comeback. His Dad isn’t happy I bet.

CB

You got to to take low risks in this game sometimes and I think Nady would be a low risk and is an absolute steal with what is out there on waivers right now. Nady is a career .271 hitter at the big league level in 10 seasons. Yeah he was injured with Nats and hit only .157 with 3HR and 6RBI in limited AB’s in 40 games with them. But yeah. And is 5/33 in only 9 games with the Grizzlies but has 2HR and 8RBI and 5BB-5K so he has an idea of the strike zone.

Mavo

@giantc – sure the greenies were also a problem back in the 60′s … as was gambling .. but baseball cleaned that up. And comparing a pick-me-up greenie to a steroid that not only builds muscle but also improves performance so dramatically is like comparing a shot of 5 Hour Energy to a shot of speed!!

Baseball addressed the issue of gambling in baseball strictly back in the 20′s .. thankfully. We no longer have to wonder if guys are throwing games anymore. Until baseball takes a zero tolerance stance on this PED travesty affecting our game … I am afraid it will continue. We’ll have to whisper about J Bautista … Is it real? … wonder about Braun … “Is he still juicing?” … “Is Kemp on PED’s?” etc etc It is destroying the confidence in the game. And that is a crime … so much bigger than any one player.

I and a lot of fans who truly love baseball want this cleaned up … TOTALLY!!!

http://nada paul in p.v.

p.s. Even if he called up Brown, Bochy wouldn’t play him over Pagan. Nady = (RH) Huff, already got one. Until yesterday I was one hoping for Mota’s return, but I can’t see the Gints enduring that kind of PR disaster now. There will be more opportunities come Sept. 1 – Abreau, Damon, Ross etc…

Stan

And we have to come up with a new term for guys like Melky. “Cheaters” sounds wrong,not realistic. Girly.
Has to be a new term for only caught useing PEDS. Pedophiles?..uh,maybe not that one..

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

The ‘cost’ of Cabrera…

With the Giants 64 wins and an accumulated 18.3 WAR, they’ve earned about 3.5 Wins/WAR. Cabrera was valued at 4.5 WAR over the last 117 games, with 45 remaining. That indicates that to sustain the SAME rate of winning, all things being equal, the Giants have to find 1.75 WAR over the next 45 games. There is no possible way to do that by simple offense alone, although Belt and Pence coming through would reduce the requirement. The ONLY way to win at the same rate and perhaps win the NL West goes through Lincecum and Zito. Between them, they have about 6-7 starts left, and playing even with their post AS game performance is about 7 wins, if you’re an optimist. We need 10 wins, 3 above expectation. If we don’t go 4-2 on this road trip, at a minimum, the numbers say we’re done. This is just like the Astros and Snakes last year, only a week early.

So hows your day going. Hope Mr. Markov has stepped out for a while, and the chip Posey has on his shoulder is a game changer. We need a little Jobu magic.

Stevo

Melky’s gone, forget about him. The roster is what it is until Sep 1, let’s move on.

Only thing that matters today is rooting for the Pirates. Let’s Go Pirates! 1-2-3 first for Burnett!

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Surf,

ever the optimist, Mendoza hit .224, Nady’s hitting .138 in Fresno. Well maybe it’s just sample size, and he’s a .300 hitter fighting for his chance.

Mark Raines

Still waiting for answer on how Hacker is replacing. It is not Penny as he was replaced yesterday by Otero.

Keep’n It Real

Just went to the Giants Dugout Store in Palo Alto…and all Melky Cabrera stuff is gone. The guys in the PED Hazardous Material Suits must have come in and cleaned the place out (kidding).

This is not the biggest of the Dugout Stores, so I would be curious of the other stores are in the same state.

The other night on TV, the cameras caught an older/stout gentleman with a Melkman hat on. The announcers kept wondering if the man was going to ever smile. Maybe he knew what was on the horizon

EFLORES

IT ALL DOES NOT MATTER NOW. DODGERS WILL WIN THE WEST!!!

LXaZ49erEmpire

Someone needs to revoke Mavo’s posting ability: re posting? really you sound awfully bitter and for all the wrong reasons!

Your damned right I am pissed at Melky and it has nothing to do with how he might have played if he did not take PED’s. I want to trust that what I am seeing on the ball field is REAL … and not some drug enhanced mirage!! Plain and simple!! I could care less about Melky or any other player who cheated the game and the fans by cheating like this.

Do you trust the fantastic times that U Bolt turned in at the Olympics? Do you really think Lance Armstrong won all those bike races cleanly? What is real now days? And what do we tell our kids when they worship faux heroes like Melky? Should we tell them …. to really be good and excel now days they have to take PED’s? What do I tell my 7 year old grandson who loved Melky and now is confused about why he is not playing?

- Tom Glavine – “I guarantee guys are trying to find something simply because it’s a grind going out there every single night,” “Someone needs to put a Starbucks or a Dunkin’ Donuts, or both, right by Shea.”

-Since 1970, using amphetamines without a prescription has been a federal crime. Still, that never deterred certain players, who used them to fight fatigue and to sharpen their focus. One reason amphetamines are popular is because they arouse the central nervous system, making users feel more alert.

-”Guys 25 are going to have to treat themselves like they’re 35.”

-Omar Vizquel, was adamant about his disdain for something others around him have apparently used. “I don’t believe a simple drug or a simple pill can get you through 162 games,” “I never believe in stuff like that.”

-It is impossible to know the percentage of major leaguers who were using amphetamines. Players and team executives speculated that anywhere from a few to more than half of the players on a given 25-man roster have been users.

-Phil Garner said that he used greenies as a player and was disturbed by the side effects. Garner said he was irritable, experienced weight loss and slept unevenly. While the greenies sometimes worked, Garner said his body built up a tolerance, and he quit using them. “It becomes a psychological addiction,” “You think you can’t play through it.”

-How players will adapt without amphetamines is one of the more intriguing questions. Will there be a difference in the total games played by individual players? Will players be listless without a greenie boost? Will there be a drop-off in the quality of play?

-Frank Thomas: Some players might drag in the steamy days of August and estimated that players who used to start 150 games might start 135….it might

I think it’s incumbent upon giants players and announcers to have a serious discussion about melky cabrera instead of ducking and dodging from the guy this organization marketed and stuffed the ballot box to get in the all star game which he won the mvp while cheating baseball.

you are doing a major disservice to the youth of baseball!!!!

I want mike krukow and kuiper to go on the air and apologize for cheering for all his hits and sucking up to his talent while cheating baseball

tell baseball fans and giant’s fans ” we are sorry for enabling and cheering for a cheater”

stop being cowards and hiding

MLBFAN36

Lincecums second half ERA before yesterday game was in the upper 2.00′s so we shall see what’s left in Timmy’s tank.

Don’t respond to the marooooons that have come here with their 15th different I love the Dodgers board name.

We know where you “stand”. Hope you fight your health battle as tough as you always have.

How’s your building this year? Anbody take Sanchie’s apartment?

Cyrus

Scooter- Kieschnick is out for the year and it would have been nice to see if he could have provided some power.

If you’re going to go with Christian, why not just sign Overbay and stop insisting he play some AAA ball. He could come up here after 2 wks off and outhit Christian any day of the week. Belt could play LF when Overbay starts against lefties. Against righties Belt at 1B and Blanco in LF.

Matthew

CB, you need a spot on Bochy’s staff. You and he think alike.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

I don’t personally see the need for all the Cabrera bashing, he’s sown his shroud, so let’s move on.

The only emotional component I see that matters now is the palpable anger I heard in Posey’s voice and saw in his eyes over the event. For that reason alone, I don’t think Cabrera ever graces this tent again. Now, can he or will he direct it in an individual and team profitable way. He has given a lot to get to this position in the season, hours upon end of pain and sacrifice, so I’m curious how he responds.

As to fans faux outrage, it’s an entertainment business, get over it.

Mark Raines

Baggs got my answer. Hacker was sent right back to fresno before he could even unpack his bags.

Mark Raines, Hacker is replacing Otero. Not sure why they called him up and then sent him back down 2 days later, but that appears to be what happened.

DesignatedPitcher

Mavo: More people are with you than you probably know. But others are also correct that the Giants this year have actually benefitted from Cabrera’s PED-enhanced play and are still in contention because of it. Which is why I’m afraid that precisely nothing truly effective will be done unless some of the financial liability is shouldered by the teams and their partners. If , for example, the Giants were forced to forfeit their wins from games in which Melky played, and the team was, suddenly dozens games out of the lead right now, how many $10 beers you think would be sold at AT&T for the rest of the year? What do you think would happen to TV ad revenue on Comcast? You can bet that if the bottom line were actually and seriously affected the 1 percenters who are really in charge would make some genuine efforts to clean up the sport right pronto.

Christian was always going to be the likely call-up so that’s not really surprising. Hacker being called up is however is…I guess it only took 1 day for them to see what Otero could bring to the table. Regardless, it’s very unrealistic to think anyone from our weak minors system can help replace Melky’s production in the lineup. The waiver wire is an option, but I’m not going to get my hopes up. The best thing we can hope for is that Blanco goes on the same tear he was on earlier in the season, when he is hot our offense is more than capable of scoring at least 4 runs a game which should be more than enough for this pitching staff.

Our pitching and bullpen definitely needs to improve and is probably my biggest concern right now. If Lincecum continues to struggle and our bullpen continues to leak oil, I don’t see any hopes of winning this division regardless of Melky’s absence. Our biggest strength has always been pitching and to say it has fallen off quite a bit from 2010 and even 2011 is an understatement.

Mavo says: August 16th, 2012 at 12:39 pm 19..It is also the wimpy enabling attitude of the players that allow this crap to continue! Instead of Buster saying “Ultimately it was a bad decision … ” … how about something like “I am sick and tired of fellow players trying to get an advantage over clean players like myself! And I am PISSED at Melky for screwing up our season by being so stupid!!”

Mav: They FEEL that way privately but publicly that would be “talking out of school” and you know as well as I do – to THIS era of modern day player – that is not done as a fellow player.

Guys like Kirk Gibson can do it but he’s a opposing Manager.

Hitman

Hey, maybe the Gnats can get Nate back. Wait, he has a broken toe. That should fit right in with the Gnats lineup! Heh,heh,heh!!

Sabean and Bochy are throwing in the white towel. Even though Blanco is starting.

HE’S STILL NOT PLAYING CENTER FIELD.

How can any manager look us straight in the face and tell us that Pagan is a better option at Center then Blanco.

STUPID BOCHY!

Bay Area Moose

From the previous thread:

If Cabrera is on the restricted list, does that open up a slot on the 40 man?

If so, why not consider taking a flyer on Ryan Lollis. The guy has been tearing everything up. Christian is just more of the same.

*******

Otero was likely brought up in case of emergency for yesterdays game. Hacker had just started a game in the minors and was not able to pitch in a pinch.

pacman68

I can’t wait to see Brown in 2015. His buddies Trout and Harper are already in the show.

I’m starting to feel that Brown is a BUST.

sketch

@38 Hap…..cmon…your making way too much sense…thats not allowed in here!

give me a break Sabean

Sabean didn’t see it coming? He probably knew 4-6 weeks ago, before Melky’s agents had exhausted every appeal, THEN had to back himself out of the alleged negotiations for Melky’s contract with the “let’s wait and see how the season plays out” excuse.

Sabean just spotted in Safeway in Sonoma, hope he is not relaxing this weekend he should be busting his butt to fix a mess he and other FO people have known about for a while…..

And I can only hope that the first time MOTA gets in to pitch I am not the only one standing up to boo him!

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

pac,

what he can say is that Blanco is a better option in LF than Pagan. Besides, if he can’t swing the bat better, he’s a dead man walking anyway.

Bay Area Moose

Pagan can’t get a good jump on the ball when it’s hit at him. You shouldn’t expect any better when he is in LF and it’s angling.

Sabean just spotted in Safeway in Sonoma, hope he is not relaxing this weekend he should be busting his butt to fix a mess he and other FO people have known about for a while…..

Doubtful that is accurate.

Must have been reported by Kimberly Guilfoyle.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

To the conspiracy theorist…

the evidence points to everybody in League management and the Giants finding out about the same time, a week to a day ago. First you have to admit the last thing Selig would want is a steroid user as AS game MVP or even on the team, second, can you imagine the embarassment the League will have if Cabrera wins the batting title, which he very much could. You need to stop and think, and maybe read the screening guidelines, the samples are screened BLIND to the identity of the player, until the code is broken. After messing up the chain of custody in Braun’s case, leading to him walking, do you actually think they aren’t following the letter of the protocol exactly.

pacman68

When Sabean starts throwing out words like “Survival Instinct” you know this season just wet the bed.

give me a break Sabean

no 100% accurate he was in sonoma safeway, reported by an eye witness who knows…..not that he cannot work from his cell phone in sonoma, but just sayin we all know he knew about this before yesterday….

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

give me,

watch the pronouns doofus, and speak for yourself.

Big Mike

No. 51 — Otero was sent down ydy.

DesignatedPitcher

@gmabs, #82, 1:50: Take a look at pages 122-125 of the Mitchell report (CU sent link at 1:40). Seems like Sabean has been suffering from self-administered blindness for oh, about a decade, at least.

CU: I get what you’re saying about no one club being worse than another. But isn’t that just a lame excuse for NO ONE to do anything. Fair or not, it’s our beloved Giants who have been most blackened by this tar. Perhaps it’s up to the SF ownership/management to make the kind of bold statement that many of us think it should. Someone has to take the first step.

Calling a guy up and immediately sending him back down is ridiculous. Talk about morale busters…

Calling up Christian is like bringing Burriss back, too. He might do OK for a start or two, but thats about it, and Blanco doesnt cut it either.

Putting Scutaro or Pill in left field for a trial period has more potential to work. I dont know if Pill is eligible right now though, because he just got sent back down.

Barring that working, I’d like to see a move for a guy with a big name, like Cody Ross. If you lose a top hitter like Melky you have to at least try to replace him, or people are going to pay a lot more attention to the niners.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

CU,

the fear of inheriting Valentine has quited a lot of the fan goofy talk about dumping Charlie Manuel. The article title in the Philly paper was something like, Be Careful What You Wish For….

Having a sense of perspective can be better than asbestos underwear. Somehow, it all always is Bochy’s fault. Somehow I think a lot of childhood bedwetters who were spanked by Daddy turned into baseball fans who post on blogs.

The Oracle

One very encouraging sign…no one in the organization, not even Bochy, has suggested that Huff could be the answer.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

fooj,

those numbers aren’t amounts’, or levels…they are ratios between two isomers of naturally occuring testosterone. The actual concentrations of naturally occuring testosterone can vary 9-10 fold, depending on the method used to measure it.

ClutchUp

Hermann: I’m not sure that’s a valid comparison. Burriss with all his injuries was a home grown Giant “draft and follow” (DC born)

Christian on the other hand played HS ball for a way under the radar HS in San Mateo, then went to a Juco in San Bruno with a bum throwing labrum and moved from SS to 2b. Then on to Auburn and then South East Missouri State. His forays through the bushes of the minor leagues have probably given Christian a much better resiliancy meter than anything Manny Burris was ever exposed to.

Getting yo-yo’d up, down, up, down, up is what Christian is living for whereas eventually if not sooner Burriss will need a change of scenery.

The Cody Ross factor has no guarantee that “if” he returned here that he would even be 1/2 successful. Maybe a clubhouse shot in the arm, but 3/4′s of his Fenway HR’s would be caught by the LF at ATT.

http://yahoo Really Disappointed

Christian added to Arias, Pagan, Theriot, Sanchez, Scutaro and Blanco. Pop guns all. Hope Boch will be willing to change his offensive approach after we go through the Posey, Sandoval, Pence and Belt portion of the lineup. If these guys get on base, lay down a bunt or two, steal a base, hit the ball the other way and do whatever has to be done to manufacturer a few runs. Bottom line, the role guys have to produce something offensively, Pence has to begin to play like the All Star he has been in the past and Belt needs to hit a few more home runs. Do that and this team can still win the division.

choyboy0724

Given the series this weekend
Giants vs Padres
Dodgers vs Braves

Pretty good chance will either be up by.5 game or trail by.5 game heading into Monday.

I agree that it was silly to call up Otero for two days. Penny and Loux were the long-relief guys, and they’re both on the DL, so it always made more sense to call up Hacker (already on the 40-man) or Petit (who is not). Maybe it had to do with Hacker’s spot in the Fresno rotation. If he’d just thrown 7-8 innings in a start and couldn’t pitch for a couple days anyway, thus Otero.

I also wonder if Hacker’s call-up is connected to Timmy’s latest putrid regression yesterday. Ick. Ewww. Phooey. (And I LOVE Timmy, as you can see by my avatar.) This team is going nowhere if the pitching doesn’t improve. Hacker could allow Timmy to skip a start or at least be on speed dial in the bullpen for Timmy (or Zito) when they have a “bad day.”

I read a day or two ago that the Fresno manager announced that Kieschnick is definitely out for the season. Previously, they’d thought maybe he’d be back in August. Too bad. I wonder why not Peguero instead of Christian, but whatever, I guess.

I wish they would put Blanco in CF if he’s going to be playing most days. Please, please, please.

I might have taken a flyer on Brown for a couple weeks, but only if he actually came up and played everyday (leading off and in CF, with Pagan moving to LF and down in the order). If he was going to sit on the bench and back up Blanco, he might as well keep on getting experience in AA.

you hit the nail on the head, I think, the Otero rope-a-dope was all predicated on Lincecum’s meltdown yesterday. Hacker, they think, can give them more quality innings per start. And if we are to win the NL West, it’ll require more than Lincecum showed yesterday. I hope it’s poor Cain who can afford to be skipped.

ClutchUp

choyboy: Tied up now 4-4

http://nada paul in p.v.

C/U – gracias for the Sabean interview – it provides a context to the moves.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

For those who may be interested…

MLB chat with Andrew Baggarly — 3:15 p.m.

over on CSN

LinceRoids

If a skinny player who toiled in mediocrity all of a sudden came into camp in his contract year bulked up and proceeded to light the world on fire, charges of PEDs would echo throughout the land (or at least, if the guy got caught, people would say they suspected all along).

How about if a guy outperforms expectations throughout his career, gets a fat contract, then comes into camp 30 lbs lighter than last season and toils in mediocrity all season long. Would it be so farfetched to wonder if he had some “help” in years past?

al oha

Christian and Hacker?

I thought they were DESCRIBING one guy.

His Faith and Batting Style.

No Longer Long Suffering Giants Fan

Sabean is right; Brown is not ready. But the real crime is we reached into our farm system and the best we could come up with is Hacker (aptly named) and Christian. If I were a GM, I’d be too ashamed to admit that’s the best we have. These two guys never were, aren’t now and never will be major league ballplayers.

August 16, 2012: WHY ARE THEY PLAYING BLANCO? HE SUCKS! PAGAN SHOULD LEAD OFF!

ClutchUp

@232 – I like Pagan in the two hole, predicated of course on my other wish that he “be tried” in LF and Blanco slide to CF.

Yippee Joe Blanton just lost his cool as he was taking out and yelled at the plate umpire and the Fodgers new pitcher just threw a pitcher under the chin of the Buccos hitters…

…. 8 to 4 Pitt / B5th.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Given the argument I put up earlier, if the Giants win the NL West, and that’s a big if, pitching will do it. As to the position players on the bench, they are for the most part irrelevant given the value of Cabrera’s loss and skill of anyone replacing him. With 45 games left, it’s, more or less, sustain the offense you have left and hope for a Pence/Belt windfall and pitch, pitch, pitch.

http://nada paul in p.v.

WOJ – I like that L/U @117 – it’s outside the box, but maxes the offense without too much dropoff in the defense. Buster and Belt would have to suck it up, though.

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

I am disappointed with the players’ reactions. I thought it came off as acceptance of the PED epidemic. It is highly doubtful that Melky is the only guy on the roster using something, and it is likely that teammates know it. Hence, no calling out the usage with anger.

It made me remember the spat CU and I had, where it was hypothesized that a player talking badly about Bochy would be approached by other players (like Buster) and be told, “hey, we don’t do that here.” Well, how about the players policing themselves? Too rampant? Is it too much like asking the cool kids in high school to tell their friends not to drink or use drugs?

It’s not just the brass that turn the other way. It’s everyone.

Part of me wants to just stop watching baseball. Why should I care about players that don’t care about themselves or their teammates?

Some active player, preferably a star, needs to step up and be a whistle blower.

Again, in caps, SOME ACTIVE PLAYER, PREFERABLY A STAR, NEEDS TO STEP UP AND BE A WHISTLE BLOWER.

It’s the only way there will be actual change.

ClutchUp

….is connected to Timmy’s latest putrid regression yesterday….

= I would have settled on “latest regression”

Putrid: 1) Decaying or rotting and emitting a fetid smell. 2). Of or characteristic of rotting matter.

J/K

fooj

#103 channelclemente
Thanks for the clarification.

Scooter McFinch

al oha says:
August 16th, 2012 at 2:47 pm

Christian and Hacker?

I thought they were DESCRIBING one guy.

His Faith and Batting Style.

—

I was stunned this hammer hadn’t been dropped sooner. I was thinking along the lines of ‘the Giants have plenty of hackers’ already.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Let’s see Blanco’

2 for 16 in August, and that nasty ol Pagan, 16 for 65 during the same period. That’s a wRC+ of 141 for Pagan, and 22 for Blanco.

Some of you guys should curb your hormones.

choyboy0724

Kemp was ejected for bumping the Umpire. He’s getting suspended.

ClutchUp

Looks like MLB baseball is going to have to fine KEMP for coming BACK out of the dugout at Umpire Campos after already being ejected, then Mattingly came back out to discuss and talked SO long to Campos so the Umpire gave the Pitt hurler extra time for more warmups and the Donny Ballgame went xtra nutzo. I love it.

Giant players and staff are at Bochy’s house having a team BBQ and are probably watching the game on TV.

Dodgers Ramirez just K’d and threw his bat HehHehHeh

Scooter McFinch

Chanel Clemente,

You dropped a Markov chain on this outfit. I have to go look that one up again but I know it involves statistics and sequential, cumulative probabilities or something along those lines.

How about some Occam’s razor:

If the Giants win 2 more games the Dodgers the rest of the way, the Division is theirs (providing the Dbacks are not in the equation). And given everything that can happen in 45 games, that is so doable.

Maybe gravy spills out of Kershaw’s shoulder as he goes down the final stretch. Or Kemp’s hammy comes undone. Just so many fun things can befall the Dodgers…

JD4SF

channelclemente says:
August 16th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
I don’t personally see the need for all the Cabrera bashing, he’s sown his shroud, so let’s move on.
The only emotional component I see that matters now is the palpable anger I heard in Posey’s voice and saw in his eyes over the event.
=============
Agree. I suspect throughout the team there are players who are not remotely happy that their chances for post season just hit a very public bump in the road. The Melky suspension also caused embarrassment for the team as a whole, and MLB in general. I think this will fire them up as a TEAM.

We might see this incident as key for increased player motivation and improvement for the remainder of the season. Loss of a single player might cause a stumble, but a strong TEAM regroups and moves forward even stronger.

Scooter McFinch

Or if this score holds up, lose 1 less game the Dodgers till the end. We’ll be tied in the Loss column

Lefty

Clutch: Yeah, I know you dislike strong adjectives like “putrid.” How shall I put this: I was disappointed with the quality of Lincecum’s pitches yesterday, especially in two-strike, two-out, need-to-focus situations. Is that better?

What in the world is going on in that game in Pittsburgh? You’d think the Dodgers would be walking on air, happy, happy, happy. They’ve won 5-6 on a tough road trip while the Giants were going 3-3 at home, AND the Giants just lost one of their best players for the season AND are in disgrace (again). You’d think they’d be skipping and singing on their way to the plate.

Re the Giants’ players’ reactions: I’m sure they’re under strict orders from management and/or the players’ union about what they can and cannot say. I saw the video of Buster’s comments, though–watched it twice–and he seemed tight-lipped and, yes, angry. As he should be. He went through hell to get himself back from a horrible injury and is having a great year, and here Melky with his “bad decision” (to quote Buster) puts their season’s outcome at risk and taints everyone else’s achievements, too. I’d be spitting mad if I were anyone, but especially Buster.

Angel Pagan seemed even less focused than usual in CF yesterday, but I actually felt for him. I know he and Melky had gotten especially close (Blanco, too, the “three amigos”), and Angel was often Melky’s translator. The situation has to be especially upsetting for Angel–but in the long run, it may benefit him. If they don’t pursue Melky for next year, Angel’s chances of staying in SF just took a big leap, don’t you think?

Stan

A Christian Hacker? are they brain dead?

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

“I was so taken aback it was deflating,” Sabean said. “I was actually in the meeting with Bruce when he talked to the players and I kind of got emotional because I didn’t see something like this coming. We’ve all been around this game a long time. You get used to making changes and adjustments. Things happen out of left field, a lot like life, and this was one of those things you’re punched in the stomach with. But you’ve got no choice but to figure out how to move on.”

I don’t believe a word. How can get emotional as you did not see it coming after the Baggs story? Even if I give him the benefit of the doubt as to not knowing before Baggs (which I doubt), how does he not look into the possibility thereafter?

I’m calling spin BS. Either Sabean is full of crap or he is completely incompetent. I don’t think he is such an idiot to have not been on guard. I think he sandbagged PHI, getting to underpay for Pence as the price goes up if it is known Melky is gone. This as lie upon lie upon lie.

ClutchUp

Wisdom:

I think the players in some fashion dispise the media and wouldn’t let their feelings leak to the press with there being so many of them PLUS tweets are retweeted without regard to originality or authenticity.

They probably have in house players ways of dealing with it like you would want it, but now there are so many and too many vultures trying to scoop all the story or even any part of the story. For a pro athlete from what I can remember from the past stories first written in newspapers – they were always worried about being taken out of context or having their intentions misconstrued.

Articles or tweets seem to never cover the eye contact or conviction of the players delivery. A one on one sitdown off season with a Bob Costos type would probably provide you more of what you/we are looking for.

Giants have enough vets that have sniffed post season money. Affedlt, Cain, Theriot, Scutero and even Huff are going to take care of business from where I am standing.

Let’s see. I know it sucks to NOT get a more forceful response but as you would remind me – this is a Baer-Sabean driven team with plenty of outward public spin induced responses.

Privately I KNOW Sabean is seething. If he can seethe over stumbling upon Belt last week at ATT – GOOFING off attempting to throw a bullpen then I bet “Sabes” has been P_off the last 48 hours.

(Also doubtful that he’s in Sonoma)

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

Lefty, if someone is mad, screw management and screw the players association. Whistleblower laws will protect you. Save the game.

ClutchUp

Wow, we posted at the same time Blood Brothers next?

ClutchUp

8 to 5…. Dodgers rumbling….

Kemp would be up right now but heh heh, can’t hit from the clubhouse.

Matthew

Clutch, Sabean may be seething, but he’s a guy who CLEARLY did his tacit endorsement during Barry, Marvin, Benito, et al.

He’s seething because he has a temper. He better not be seething because he’s holier-than-Melky…that would be a bit hypocritical..

BTW, Burnett is close to giving the lead away…

ClutchUp

HBP by Burnett 8-6.

Giants Extra Reglar

Before implicating anybody on who knew what, when they knew it and what information they owed us loyal fans, I would want to know more about how the process works: how often are players tested, when is the last time Melky was tested before this incident, when was he tested for this incident, after the initial test came back tainted who knew about it and what did they know, was the information given to the player’s agent but not the team, was the player told by his agent/legal counsel to deny everything until further notice, is it common to get tainted initial tests that are later dismissed by clean tests of the B-sample, was there an appeal by the player and/or the team, what was the appeal based upon, and probably more questions not coming to mind.

Till then, who cares what Sabean knew and when he knew it? He doesn’t owe anybody an explanation no matter what anybody here thinks they are owed.

ClutchUp

Matthew says: August 16th, 2012 at 3:23 pm 139..Clutch, Sabean may be seething, but he’s a guy who CLEARLY did his tacit endorsement during Barry, Marvin, Benito, et al.

Matthew: Agree but that tacit acceptance – doubtful that it was an endorsement, however I DO agree with Sabes’ complete complicity apparently.

Stan Conte (no relationship to Victor) told Sabean that Anderson and Harvey Shields and the BB25 entourage were doing “something” in the clubhouse that he (Conte) did not feel comfortable and Sabean told Conte that — it “may not” be mangagements J O B to police that situation. That looks bad now looking back but I do think this Melky situation has to be separated from the Bonds yrs and the Mota sitch was shocking to me due to him already doing his 50 gamer the first time around.

This HAS to be attacked, subdued and obliterated from the TOP down. Selig has to go. The Steroid Commissioner is dragging things down from his throne, but ALAS = Who Does Selig Answer To???

I went through it yesterday. Legalese galore. Make sure to look at the section on confidentiality, as telling a “club” to keep test results confidential, when the “club” is implied to be in the dark until penalties come down, speaks volumes.

I also like how PED use “violating the Program” is against the rules. Basically, unless you are caught in possession or fail a test, it is not against the rules. Kinda like how walking down the street high on pot is not illegal – if not driving and not in possession, not a crime.

The policy is a sham only the dumb get caught by.

ClutchUp

Giants Extra Reglar says: August 16th, 2012 at 3:24 pm 140..

++++++++++

SurfCity

CC you’re right, thanks for the correcton: Nady is half a Mendoza – would that be a Mendoza line segment?

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

Reglar – the player’s association is contacted about the result and they tell Melky and his agent, presumably by Cain, the team rep.

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

Also, since everyone is not allowed to talk about anything, it will take a whistleblower to even learn the facts you want to know, Reglar.

Lincecum did not have control and left several pitches up. The pitch hit for the HR was outside but up. If Pagan, 0 for 5, had gotten any sort of hit after Lincecum put down the sac bunt to place runners at 2nd & 3rd, how would Lincecum have fared? If Lincecum had a melt down, then so did Pagan. I would not use said term in describing any players performance on the field.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The players are part of a union, then can not start throwing their teammates or other members of the union under the bus.

If fans really care and want a zero tolerance policy, then organize fans against PEDs. Any time a team signs a player with a PED history, like Dodgers & A’s signing Manny Ramirez, said fans should refuse to attend the games, watch on TV, or buy from the advertisers. Make it clear to the owners, that PEDs are not condoned. Next time Brewers come to AT&T, protest Braun in the game. You can be heard if you truly care so much. When Cardinals play at AT&T protest McGwire as hitting coach. If Mota is brought back, let the Giants know you do not want him. At least “Boo” if he is brought into the game. — Do this, and then I’ll believe you really care and so will the owners. Otherwise it is just noise.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Wisdom,
I do not object to your opinion. I almost always read what you post and sometimes it gives me pause. But here is a serious question. If you have such little respect for Sabean & Bochy, how can you continue to root for the Giants team?

the following is not directed at any particular poster, it just my observation
I have read posts that bemoan the owners. I don’t understand how many that post here hold their strong opinions against ownership, the marketing, some players, the broadcasters, the GM, the mgr, etc. etc. yet still support the concept of the team. The 2012 Giants are made up of these components so highly criticized. Is it the fantasy of the Giants of the past that they support?
=-=-=-=-=-=-
Why are posters still concerned with Burriss? He is not on the 40 man roster, and thanks to ClutchUp’s post yesterday we now know for a fact players have to be on the 40 man roster to be called up Sept 1.

SurfCity

“Yet he won’t take a low risk on calling Brown up, thinking he is not ready, when you won’t know until you throw him out there. ”

Actually they have a really good idea what he can do by seeing him play down at A ball.

And I disagree that “it couldn’t hurt. Calling him up now under the current circumstances (cough manager) and you easily get another Belt situation – yo-yo, lack of confidence, regression, send-down.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Surf,

I think we can safely say, Nady is a Nada.

SurfCity

Oh and by the way, ideas justified by “it couldn’t be any worse than …” tend to not impress

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

fuddy, it’s hard to not root for the team you have rooted for as long as you can remember. Plus, the Giants are bigger than Sabean and Bochy. The Giants will be around long after they, and we, are dead.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

I suspect, Brown, if he deserves it, will be rewarded and called up at roster expansion.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

fuddy,

as long as pitchers initiate contact, they carry the primary burden of performance, good and bad. But who wouldn’t like to see Pagan hit in that situation.

Nameless Bob

I get why PED are not allowed. If they are allowed the inexorable pressure of competition would eventually require everyone who wanted to compete to use PED or not make the team. It’s kind of like natural selection or free market capitalism. The downside is that most of the PED have deleterious effects on health. All you would have left are players willing for whatever reason to sacrifice their future health for short term gain. We don’t want to go to the park to watch the equivalent of circus freaks who are so driven to compete for whatever reason that they destroy their bodies.

We don’t outlaw healthy eating or exercise or weight lifting or other things that provide a competitive advantage because they don’t have the long lasting ill effects of some PED.

So, are there some currently outlawed PED that don’t have bad side effects? Can we allow those? What if some are developed in the future, should they be allowed? What if the ban were lifted and there was great economic incentive for drug companies to come up with effective PED without bad side effects? If they did then there would be a market for them from players who want the boost without the harm. Wouldn’t we all benefit from taking these drugs that would make us stronger and be physically active longer?

The main objection seems to be the side effects. Are PED without bad side effects possible?

ClutchUp

From Rick Eymer @ PaloAlto On Line

-While Melky should and must face the consequences, it is important to note that this suspension was based on tests dating to spring training 2011 and maybe even earlier.

The reason major league baseball waits is to be absolutely sure of its test and retesting of more than one sample. This is just bad timing for the Giants. Whether Cabrera was ever using a banned substance while playing for San Francisco is a whole different story.

He certainly acted outraged when a reporter leaked news of the suspension a month ago. The reporter was confronted, in the locker room in front of the rest of the area’s media, by Matt Cain and Angel Pagan among others, while the rest of the team also had Melky’s back at the time.

I wonder if the team will apologize to the reporter after he was “asked” to apologize himself.

Fuddy those are easy questions — IMO it’s silly that I’m expected to root for a marketing person if I like the Giants. What you’re pushing, when it’s stripped down, is a theory that if you like the Giants you have to cheer everything they do, every bobble-head, every animal hat for sale, every marketing person.

I think Bochy has done a good job for 2012 – other disagree with me. That’s the way it goes. I think Bochy is not really the ideal manager for this team. Others disagree with me, that’s how it goes.

For you to question the passion of WC, because he voices criticisms, shows me either you don’t read this blog much to see his passion, or you’re trying to enforce a rah-rah-rah spirtit on this blog.

fuddyduddy

Wisdon, thanks, I understand, agree, and hope they are around for a long long time

Maybe I don’t allow myself to share your feelings, as tempting as that would be, since I would likely be so upset that I could not enjoy the games. I’m glad you can feel as you do yet still get enjoyment.

JD4SF

Fans might continue expressing their rather strong opinions on the Melky situation, but the TEAM’s focus needs to be on winning the next game, then the next game, then the next. The longer the Melky suspension and related issues are front burner in the media and public blog comments, the more challenging it will be for the TEAM to move forward and stay focused. So I hope the dust settles soon.

But I also hope MLB feels enough heat that they take action to make productive changes in PED testing so MLB really does get cleaned up. Make the “temptation” far less tempting with more diligent and effective testing and stronger consequences.

Fuddy made a good point on putting the fan pressure on. But I think that pressure needs to be aimed at the top. Perhaps fuddy will be motivated to start a petition at change.org addressed to MLB and the player’s union.

SurfCity

Correction on last comment: I think Sabean has done a good job for 2012, not BOchy, SOrry

Fuddy, I wouldn’t say I’m getting much enjoyment over the last 24 hours out of baseball, but the anger will pass.

SurfCity

Wow, the “dont’ criticize the Giants team for anything” commenters are out in force today.

Give me a break Sabean

I stand by my belief that Sabean has known about Melky for a while, but I do apologize for using “we all know” because it is just my opinion, and not fact, and based on rumour and conjecture only (sound like Baggs). But it was wrong….

And so true, that what does it matter if he did know three weeks ago? He was not going to say anything until the law came down. Just sad and disappointing for the fans who were doing what they do during the Giants season- discussing, analyzing, hoping, worrying, debating- only to be totally bummed out by the news yesterday that was floating out there for a while (maybe).

He is in Sonoma for a wedding, nothing wrong with that……

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

JD, I don’t think you can have it both ways – the fans can’t just let it go and expect anyone from mlb to do anything but maintain the status quo.

That said, I don’t think what we or the media say will effect the players. They have already been hit by this. How they react as a unit is on them, not us, not the media. If anything, the media continuing to harp on it is for the better of the team, as they can rally around each other against the world.

Matthew

JD, thanks for the recalibrate on thoughts. I really doubt MLB will do anything… What would motivate them to? They took a free pass on Braun’s incident, showing Selig’s reach… I tend to think Conte is likely right about the pervasiveness.

We watch, we pay, networks with a sum in the game turn their heads. There is little to no motivation for “baseball” to change.. Rather, just trot out “criminals” they catch, and we trust it to be true, and on we go.

Melky DID cheat, so this is no pass for him. I just think the whole game is tarnished, and your hopes seem remote

Boxergar

I agree with Mavo 100%. Now if they can only check on the NFL linemen who weigh over 300 lbs.

fergie348

Check out the pitch that Angel Campos calls a strike in that PIT-LAD game that got both Kemp and Mattingly ejected and Kemp probably suspended for a couple of games:

If you listen close to the audio, you can hear Kemp hollering from the dugout about umpire blindness. If you watch the video you can see he kinda has a point. I hate the Dodgers as much as anyone but that was a horsebleep strike call..

Stan

The 50 games will cost – somebody posted on the net- 1.8 million dollars. That hurts anybody.

fuddyduddy

Surf,
I don’t think any thing I said says you have to cheer for every thing. You choose to “strip down” what I said to mean something I did not say. Nor did I say you can’t criticize. Sorry if you interpreted my post as saying such.

I don’t buy that merchandising crap, but I do not object to it being sold or others buying it and enjoying it. I don’t root for the marketing or care to own the products. It just that my feelings are not so easy to compartmentalize. I could not hold such strong negative opinions of many components of the Giants and also simultaneously hold strong feeling of support. I don’t have to like everything members of the Giants entity do, but I do not let most of it upset me. I guess I can dislike my in-laws and still love my wife. But if I hated everything they stood for and every action they took, it would be a challenge to separate those feelings and I would to need to work through those feelings with my wife.

I don’t believe that what I asked was a challenge or question of Wisdom Cow’s passion. If so, wouldn’t it be up to him/her to call me on that? If what I said was taken to be a question of passion, or any other feeling, I am truly sorry.

ClutchUp

Fans don’t have to approach IT this way, but Major League Ball players will try to spin regaining their mental focus as if Melky is out with an injury.

We were getting ready to travel to an away game this past season. HS kids all reported at 1245p to our team clubhouse when we got word that two or our best players did not make grades and were done for the season.

The place was like a morgue. HS kids not being able to process anything. Dressed in silence. Got in our car pool and left. Cars were dead silence. We really had no chance going forward. I could tell the kids would go through the motions.

Then we get to the away site and the parents of the two kids had driven them hurriedly to the game. The front office had made a huge error. We won by one run.

My point is not that the example mirrors MLB but that going forward the Giants biggest obstacle will be mentally first and then filling Melky’s roll second.

VOIDEDSEASON

your season cannot be counted this year.

your team used a cheater this year.

all of your stats and records are non-existent.

do you even have a clue????

your season is lost…….you can’t cheer for this team because it is all pointless

you team is a ghost team

does not count at all for anything….

go fishing

ClutchUp

Nothings easy 10-6 Buccos Top 9th

ClutchUp

VOIDEDSEASON says:
August 16th, 2012 at 4:09 pm 172..

15th board name
cheaters.com
xxxxxx
xxxxxx
xxxxxx
xxxxxx
xxxxxx

totalfan62

Woj says: August 16th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

Starting lineup:
Pagan CF
Scutaro 2B
Sandoval 3B
Posey 1B
Pence RF
Belt LF
Hector C
Crawford SS
——————————————————————–
I agree that Belt in LF for at least a few games so that we can get Hector’s bat into the lineup makes a lot of sense. Belt is a very good defensive player, he has a strong arm, and he gave us some decent OF play last year. He can handle it, and Hector can flat out hit.

We need to replace Melky’s offensive production, and the best option currently on the team is Hector. I think Posey will still catch the top three starters–because both pitcher and catcher want that–but we have to be creative in order to on the fly make up for Melky’s loss

VOIDEDSEASON

hey clutchup……

it doesn’t matter what the dodgers do……your giants have forfeited the season…

VOIDEDSEASON

when you play with a cheater…..nothing you do is legitimate…

so if you happen to win an the playoffs…..it’s all wasted effort

JD4SF

The Wisdom Cow says:
August 16th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
167..
JD, I don’t think you can have it both ways – the fans can’t just let it go and expect anyone from mlb to do anything but maintain the status quo.
=======

I’m not expecting or wanting fans to just let it go. Sorry it I wasn’t clear. I’m suggesting a more organized effort that might actually accomplish something. Grass roots fan strength recruited from both leagues for support, directed at MLB commissioner and the players union in a petition form with a million fan signatures demanding effection action against PED use in MLB is far more likely to have impact than pages of outraged blog comments.

Meanwhile, I want our TEAM focused on winning the next game.

ClutchUp

That makes so little sense, think about it, forfeited the season. If that were true there would be no game in SD on Friday.

Voided, name one team that won the pennant or world series with a player that is known to have used steroids and therefore do not fly a flag.

Once Manny tested positive, did the Red Sox forfeit their WS wins?
With A-rod etc, did the Yankees forfeit wins?

Of course you also constantly post on their fan sites since you are not a hypocrite.

JD4SF

ClutchUp says:
August 16th, 2012 at 4:08 pm
173..
going forward the Giants biggest obstacle will be mentally first and then filling Melky’s roll second.
============

Agree. The more distractions, the harder it is to stay focused. Our TEAM needs to stay focused to win. The mental aspect will be huge right now.

JD4SF

Dodgers lost

VOIDEDSEASON

I am a twelve year old boy with nothing better to do

My Mother picks out my Underwear

I come on these blogs because I have no friends

I am jealous of all the achievements of the San Francisco Giants

Hitman is my Lover

Thank You for allowing me to explain

Lefty

Totalfan, that’s a tough one: Hector’s bat? Yep, kid can hit. At the same time, the big picture has not changed. The Giants are a team that relies on pitching and defense. If you put Hector at C, Posey at 1B, and Belt in LF, you’ve weakened three positions defensively. Maybe more important, you take a superb catcher away from the pitchers.

I could see that for a game or two here and there. I could also see Belt in LF, Pablo at 1B, and Scutaro at 3B if they decide Theriot is a more valuable bat than Blanco (especially against a lefty). But I hope there will not be a lot of panic moves to “get more offense.” Let’s face it: The offense is what it is. Whether you swap in, say, Hector, Theriot, or Pill (if they bring him back), it’s not going to be that much better.

All year, playing guys out of position for the sake of offense has backfired and it has especially hurt the pitchers. Stay the course. There’s enough offense–IF the pitching and defense is sound.

My $.02, anyway.

Lefty

Voidedseason @ 4:30: You are an impostor. How do I know? The real one (under any name) has no capital letters on his computer.

ClutchUp

LAD 010 300 200 6R 8H 0E

PIT 300 140 20X 10R 11H 2E

Burnett 15-4
Blanton 8-11 (L)

Garrett Jones hit two tiebreaking three-run homers, in the first and fifth innings. The late-afternoon game got heated right about the time taverns around town were offering discounted libations to the after-work crowd, but it definitely was not a happy hour for the Dodgers.

Actually, the LA/Pit game was going to work out well (or badly) either way for the Giants…the Pirates had a half-game lead (now a full game) over the Giants for the wild card. Now LA’s lead goes down from 1 game to .5. We still have nine games against LA. Rather have the NL West title.

fuddyduddy

JD, thanks for the encouragement to organize fans, but my feelings are not so strong.

I dislike PEDs. I also accept that Bonds did use clear & cream so he could compete for the glory he was afraid others were taking from him. It wasn’t right or justified, but he is a human being that felt cheated. Also, I do not think for one minute that if he had not taken anything neither MLB nor members of the media would cheer his staying clean. I do not see Braun getting even a small fraction of the criticism Bonds received.

What I see is fans accept their stars no matter what, while getting indigent about members of other teams. McGwire is loved in St Louis, and Oakland as far as I know. Dodger fans were glad to see Manny signed. Some outrage against Melky seems more about losing his services for the rest of the season.

But I am glad to see many Giants fans chastise a star on their team. I would like to see the Giants players let Sabean & owners know they do not want known PED users on the team and have a meeting in the spring to tell their fellow players if they use, quit!, and there will be no future forgiveness for anyone using PEDs by their fellow teammates. The PED end has to start someplace, why not the Giants.

http://nada paul in p.v.

Fergie – gracias for that Doyer highlight – that pitch to Ethier was so far off the plate, it was in the RH batter’s box! I’m amazed Ethier was so cool about it – and Campos didn’t even raise his hand, he musta known he gagged on the call.

As I said earlier, there is a very real chance Cabrera will win the NL batting title this year. What is truly ironic, is that if he continues to play to form, Buster Posey may be the runner up. Jobu has one heck of a sense of humor.

JD4SF

Our TEAM needs to be focused on winning the next game, then the next. For a continued run to post season pitching needs to stabilize with more consistent good outings from starters and bull pen. Defense needs to stay strong. We need to keep moving runners around the bases and home to score.

I think defense will be pretty solid with Blanco added to the OF, but think it may be more advantageous for him to be patrolling CF with Pagan in LF.

Offense … the smart/small ball needs to continue working, with every player contributing, with a timely HR now and then. Reality is we need just 1 run more than the other team to win. If pitching and defense is strong, I think we’re good enough on offense.

Buster needs to stay strong. Pablo is back, with some plate discipline that bodes well. Pence’s bat is heating up. Belt’s recent surge as a hitter is huge, and will be challenged as MLB pitchers keep looking for new holes in his swing. His key to success with continued contribution IMO will be how quickly he can adjust to whatever that pitcher is throwing. Crawford is contributing above early expectations. Others are also contributing, up and down the order.

Blanco’s “White Shark on the hunt” made an appearance in yesterday’s game at the plate. Hopefully he can continue that contribution and even become a spark like he was earlier in the season.

I believe we still have a shot at post season. The real keys will be pitching and the TEAM’s ability to stay focused.

Lefty

I read through Baggs’s chat today, and someone asked him about the chances of the Giants bringing Melky back. He said something along the lines of “well, a snowball has a chance in hell, right?”

I would hope that Buster, Cain, and other respected players would make their feelings known to Sabean and ownership: We don’t want this on our team. We would not welcome Melky back. We embraced him here, and he violated our trust and harmed all of us. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

http://nada paul in p.v.

W/C – I enjoy your comments, and respect your opinions – but whistle-blowers are generally crucified in this society, so I don’t see that really happening in an ML clubhouse. You can bet that “no comment, we gotta move on as a team” was the default response coached in the team meeting.

Also the pressure on these KIDS standing at their lockers with all the blow-dried talking heads jamming mics at them, playing cat-and-mouse gotcha games? I would clam up too.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/schedule/ps.jsp ClutchUp

The only desparate move-type defensive tweak would be LF with Belt playing once/twice ONLY the rest of the way, and it would have to be in a smaller band box variety. Belt is a good athlete but the last 45 games Bochy can’t set guys up for failure defensively looking for more offense.

Btw, there WAS a group of us way early in the seaon advocating the complete opposite and how did that work out for ya They tried Pill, Huff and Belt in LF at the beginning or 1/4 pole. Or to quote Dana Carvey doing Bush Senior…not gonna happen.

Our coaching staff has a phrase touch the outfield grass. Washington in one of the games or two was “flicking” – “serving” and “dinking” wrist shots every place except where the Giants IF’s were standing.

The roster as it’s composed is gonna have to “leave a little swing back” on occassion rather than swing out of their fannies and leave their shoes.

It can be done. The Melky “injury” needs to be INITIALLY overcome for 45-46 games. “Just get in” — then the rest can be game planned.

JD4SF

channelclemente says:
August 16th, 2012 at 4:50 pm
193..
As I said earlier, there is a very real chance Cabrera will win the NL batting title this year. What is truly ironic, is that if he continues to play to form, Buster Posey may be the runner up. Jobu has one heck of a sense of humor.
==

What did I miss? I thought Melky was one AB short of being eligible for the batting title?

I have a guess about Belt. I think he will end the year hitting .290+. The staffs patience with him will pay dividends. And, if we’re lucky enough to make the post season (and it will take luck and dead chickens), he will be a post season difference maker.

Lefty

JD: There’s some weird loophole known as the “Tony Gwynn rule” where Melky could add one plate appearance to his total and take it as an 0-1, calculating his average accordingly. McCutchen and Wright are ahead of him right now, with Buster also coming up behind. But yes, it’s possible–he could win the batting title.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

It turns out 502 ABs are what they calculate the BA on if you’re short. With Cabrera, they’ll add 1 more AB in which he went 0 for 1, and calculate it from that. There are numerous precidents, including Tony Gwen, most recently. It could be a year to remember (or forget) in SF, for many reasons.

Lefty

Paul: Fair enough. Why does he “deserve” another chance? He cheated and lied and harmed his team. He brought more shame on a franchise and fan base that have already had their fill of it.

He’ll get another chance with some team, for sure. Why does he deserve one with the Giants?

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Lefty,

sorry for the duplication on my part.

GiantsFan4ever

This is my first post, I have been a regular visitor of this blog and a big fan of the Giants. I love reading all the articles when Baggs used to do it and now Alex….just an introduction and would like to change the topic to more as in how thsi team can live up to the challenge as we did not have Melky in 2010.

Pagan did very well in the 5th hole and had a hot streak going there behind posey. I would suggest a LU of

Blanco
Scutaro
Sandoval
Posey
Pagan
Pence
Belt
crawford
pitcher

this LU as good potential and can do a lot of damage on a given day.

4SeamSuzie

First, let’s be real here, if you think Melky is the only one who has been taking PEDs in this current MLB era you’re being naive. Melky was just foolish enough to get caught. Second, I hate PEDS in baseball but if you believe that it hasn’t been going on to one degree or another for a very long time you’re also being naive. This issue isn’t going to completely go away unless player’s paychecks are directly at stake and that won’t happen any time soon. And finally, if you think baseball is limited to some Pollyanna-ish world of kiddies, peanut shells and the Star-Spangled Banner you’re living in Easter Bunny land. PED use in baseball can only be contained – it will never be completely eradicated, epecially when there is so much money is involved.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Paul,

after Bonds, you have to be kidding.

totalfan62

Lefty says: August 16th, 2012 at 4:30 pm
——————————————————————

I absolutely agree with you on the defensive issues, and I am not advocating to make these moves full time. However, we already have Hector catching with Buster at 1B on days that Buster’s legs need a rest. If Belt continues to hit–which I believe he will–he will produce more offense than Christian or Blanco and we keep his bat in the lineup. We would go with that lineup for first six innings, then make the appropriate changes to strengthen the defense.

ClutchUp

Lefty says: I would hope that Buster, Cain, and other respected players would make their feelings known to Sabean and ownership: We don’t want this on our team. We would not welcome Melky back. We embraced him here, and he violated our trust and harmed all of us. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Lefty: I wish it were that simple. Cain and Buster have played with other teammates that were “doing something” to aquire an edge. Buster might make his feelings known but as the player rep, doubtful that Cain (along with Buster) would even in private discuss not bringing him back.

There is no real easy way for me to explain it but baseball is a game played by little kids who grew up to big and strong and jaded by the simpleness of the game they played as kids as well as paid too much money by greedy owners who in the past have turned a blind eye. Many athletes of Strong Faiths believe in making restitution and giving forgiveness more so than continued vilification.

Don’t thing one viewport is going to sway the way the Giants handle their business especially since he admitted to the error of his ways.

Cabrera will play somewhere next year and one of them could be SF.

JD4SF

GiantsFan4ever says:
August 16th, 2012 at 5:03 pm
207..
This is my first post, I have been a regular visitor of this blog and a big fan of the Giants. [...]
this LU as good potential and can do a lot of damage on a given day.
==========

I like your first post, including the LU. Looking forward to additional posts here from you. 8)

choyboy0724

Dodgers lose
Kemp is gonna get suspended
Heh,Heh,Heh!!!

DesignatedPitcher

JD4SF, 194 @ 4:53 says: Our TEAM needs to be focused on winning the next game, then the next.

JD, that kind of thinking is sort of the problem, isn’t it? Maybe it’s just about time that something OTHER than winning the next game or the division occupy these guys’ minds. Perhaps they need to spend some quality moments considering stuff like their lives, their health, the lives of the Little Leaguers who adore them and who might be influenced by them, their futures with their wives, their families, and, oh yeah, the integrity of the game. It’s a very strong possibility, bordering on a certainty, that other players (on the Giants and every other team) are injecting themselves with poison that could kill them. Maybe that fact alone justifies a little distraction.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

choy,

let’s hope it’s 6 games. Isn’t bumping an ump a flogging offense?

ClutchUp

Unless the entire Upper Level of Major League Baseball initiates tougher controls as well as in every minor league level – players, their entourage and their agents will continue to scour the labortories of the Globe to come up with something designed to deceive.

Otherwise THIS happens to today’s youth especially to the ones who were NEVER going to be a pro ball player.

Fix the System at every level. Make the Consequences MORE severe and the Players will follow suit, but not until and before.

Just listened to Sabean on KNBR. If anyone needed proof that the players union runs the sport (and is easily the strongest union in any industry), Sabean’s responses to the Qs posed him give that proof:
“I can’t talk about that”
“the rules and regs govern that, I can’t comment beyond that”
“the rules and regs apply here, I won’t say anymore”
“I’m not going to go into that”

Really illuminating stuff.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

I’d speculate, that if Belt is still performing well when we leave
SD, he’ll be in the 5 hole when they leave LA. It’s way to many RBIs to waste if his eye is still finding the ball with the bat.

Matthew

Channel – wishful thinking.. It’s a Dodger, who have owners that paid 2 billion $ for their toy… If you think that Kemp gets that kind of a suspension ( wish you were right) then you also believe the Braun ruling was independent.

JD4SF

DesignatedPitcher says:
August 16th, 2012 at 5:11 pm
214..
JD4SF, 194 @ 4:53 says: Our TEAM needs to be focused on winning the next game, then the next.

JD, that kind of thinking is sort of the problem, isn’t it? Maybe it’s just about time that something OTHER than winning the next game or the division occupy these guys’ minds.
=======

Good stuff. And I agree those thoughts need to be in the players heads. at the appropriate time. But those same thoughts can be approached from a positive aspect … personally feeling comfortable that he is a good role model, teammate, spouse, etc. If not, make personal changes to reach that kind of status within yourself.

I wouldn’t be surprised to hear there has been a team meeting where this kind of mind set is discussed, along with players who do well as mentors / leaders if only by example. (Think Buster.)

But when suiting up for the game, I don’t want players distracted. I want the TEAM focused.

avwh

Sabean wouldn’t answer if the Giants would put Melky on the playoff roster, assuming the Giants make it. He also wouldn’t answer if the Giants would consider signing Melky for next year.

Looks like Mattingly is wearing #88. Did he pull a BB15 and give his number to somebody else they aquired. That’s a rough look #88 for a skipper. Maybe he gave it to Victorino.

Either way the Pittsburg Jobu did not like seeing that 88 on Donny Baseball…

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

avwh,

a contract is a contract. And Selig, after that Braun mess, is serious. The Union humiliated him. In the greater scheme of things, Sabean is small fry and does what he’s told. If I know this crew of owners, he’s catching the heat for bringing Cabrera here and raising this ‘Bondian’ mess again after it’s been put to bed in there mind. Recall Bonds testing the waters about rejoining the Giants fold last winter, that’s just dead now. That cannot make Baer happy at all, given the loss of Bonds as a PR tool for future $$.

1. “Deserve,” as in, he fooked up, but he didn’t exactly go on a killing spree. I think that words like “cheated, lied, shamed” etc. matter only to us Orange and Black Diehards. Like a friend of mine said once, ibuprofen is a PED, when you think about it.

2. C/C: I am NOT advocating or endorsing a return to the Bonds-Sosa-McGuire era of Michelin-men baseball players. That was a farce, led by no one less than bud slimeg, our erstwhile weasel commissioner, and anyone with eyes connected to their brain knew it at the time.

gave Melky credit for immediately owning up to his dirty deed, instead of making an excuse like everyone else has – aka “It was my kid’s cough syrup!” Think about that for a second.

4. MLB and the Union have rules, and he will have abide by them, and pay the price – which will be HUGE in terms of future earnings. That is plenty of punishment in my opinion, until and unless he screws up again.

5. I’m biased – I really like Melky – I think he’s shy, and fierce, and has a big heart and great competitiveness – and I’d like to see him play LF in a Giants uniform again. I lived in SF for 8 years a long time ago, and it seems to me that The City is big enough to give him another chance.

4.

ClutchUp

Choy/Boy I see Hanley did his “thing” again rounding second base on his HR.

Heh Heh

4SeamSuzie

Did Kemp assault an ump? Sounds like someone’s still dealing with *rage* issues.

Just saw the video of roid rage Kemp doing his thing. Text book case if ever there was one.

Mr. Disgusted

The sad part is that according to Victor Conte, testosterone PED usage is rampant; Melky was one of the few that actually got caught. Even if his estimate of 50% usage is slightly exaggerated, there are still A LOT of users, and probably a few more Giants at that.

Victor Conte, founder of the infamous Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative (BALCO) that brought down some of sports’ biggest names, says as many as 50% of major league players are using illegal performance-enhancing drugs. He has no proof, of course, but says he talks with players and that they have no reason to lie to him.

JD4SF

Article includes game video on the Kemp and Mattingly ejections for those who haven’t see it yet.

JD4SF says: LOL I’m not always positive. I can snarl, snark and cuss with the best … in private or when needed. But in a public forum I do try to stay balanced.

I can vouch for that

dj

if you are not juicing, you are not really trying

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

Hey Paul, let’s kick Clarence out of the band and steal all his great ideas.

Oh, wait.

Paul, it would take an individual of incredible character to become a whistle-blower against mlb and their own union, and I agree it won’t happen any time soon.

However, I do think times have changed greatly. Yes, a whistle-blower is still going to face a the chastisement from those they “betray,” but the public in general has finally come around on the stigma. Imagine if a Goldman Sachs mid tier multimillionaire told all – he’d be a hero.

If someone came clean, protected under whistle-blower laws, and exposed the corruption within mlb and their pseudo-drug testing program, all hell would break loose. Congressional hearings with Anti-Trust repercussions would just be a starting point. Selig would get what he deserves. The game would suffer greatly in the short term, but recover stronger than ever, IMO, ushering in a new era of regulations with a completely new outlook.

——————————

Also, forgot who brought up the “if it doesn’t have bad side effects” argument to allow some PEDs, but look at football. There is evidence no one should even be playing the game. Worse, the only legitimate solution which got nowhere in a hurry was to where Spaceballs-like “Dark Helmets,” but they won’t do that because it doesn’t look cool. It’s all about money.

avwh

Thanks for the link, JD.

Mattingly looked like he bumped the umps more than once. The home plate ump (Angel Campos?) is a little guy; the other bigger umps stayed between him & Mattingly, or Donnie Baseball would have taken him apart.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

What’s wierd about that Angel Campos event in the Dodger’s game, is that Campos has a very tight zone, particularly to LHB on the outside corner. My guess, Campos was making a point that Kemp was to dumb to get. Either was the object lesson. Kemp had just struck out, and was jawing Campos from the bench.

I think we won’t be seeing SeatBelt or Brandon Crawford Watch for awhile.

Kemp had roid rage today. Better test him.

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

No! Kemp clearly just finally figured things out after so many years. He is as clean as any MVP from 2011.

Trust the process.

Scooter McFinch

The only process you can trust is The Giants Way.

Everything else is lies and deceit. Especially the process involved in The Spanish Prisoner.

Off topic poll:

Steve Martin – better actor or banjo player ?

SurfCity

Fuddy,

You said, “But if I hated everything they stood for and every action they took, it would be a challenge to separate those feelings and I would to need to work through those feelings with my wife.”

I don’t think this is a good example at all, because WC, the person you were referring to, doesn’t “hate everything the Giants stand for and every action they take. ” I would doubt that any poster here does, execept perhaps for an obvious troll or two.

You also asked me, “I don’t believe that what I asked was a challenge or question of Wisdom Cow’s passion. If so, wouldn’t it be up to him/her to call me on that”

It would be OK for him to call you on that, but it’s also OK for any other commenter to respond to your comment — especially when it’s of the love-it-or-leave it variety.

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

Banjo? Better singer, . . . , “Now when I die, now don’t think I’m a nut. Don’t want no fansy funeral, just one like old King Tut.”

Bay area rogue

The Rogue laughs at the ‘modern player’ theory of not speaking up about a player screwing his team. The problem with “FAT SABEAN” and “dumb bochy” is that they want to win popularity contests. A player should stand up and call it the way it is(BUSTER). who is the team captain? Get MAD!!! call the guy a jerk, liar, selfish and a bad example. cabrera has no moral fiber. he had it all here in SF: a new start, new team, the “melkman” fan base, playoff run, all star game MVP etc.. and he blew it all. in the movie 25th Hour, Edward Norton has a reality check in the mirror called “F” you know what! That is cabrera if he has any conscience. He screwed his team, the fans, his family, friends. All the young fans must know that this guy was selifish and just took, took and took. even if he is sorry, it’s only because he got caught. he knew all along he could get caught. cabrera betrayed his team. I hope he never gets his ‘payday’ that he was hoping for. the only thing saving “FAT SABEAN” is the lousy NL west. Note to SABEAN: “FAT, DRUNK AND STUPID’ is no way to go thru life.

JD4SF

channelclemente says:
August 16th, 2012 at 5:42 pm
232..
JD,

it couldn’t possibly come from being a state employ, I admire your ‘pluckiness’ in the face of a headwind.
========

8)
My paycheck was private sector. Part of the “plucky” comes from being from a generation where women had to be twice as good as the men to get the job for half the paycheck. I had to learn to be more tactful and patient when I beat the men than I was beating the boys at baseball. LOL

But I have learned a bunch in the “government” environment with @ 35 years as a trained volunteer in emergency/disaster. (I’m not counting volunteer reimbursement for travel, uniform allowance, etc.) Most of my association as a volunteer has been with local government / authorities, such as law enforcement and OES.

I still spend time contributing at the local, state and national level – and sometimes international – on emergency/disaster, but mostly from the keyboard now if not local. And I’m only teaching/speaking out of area now a few times a year. Physically limited now, but the brain still works most of the time.

Scooter McFinch

CC (aka Dr. Markof),

Belt at .290 ? I think you’d have your replacement in the #3 spot in the lineup and the Giants would be spilling champagne sometime in the final week of the season.

Imagine if Sabean & Bochy met for a night to discuss the roster, and a bottle of scotch was involved. The contents dissipated while cigars burned down to stubs. A pact is made to say “eff it – let’s do this”. All sort of ‘crazy’ sheet cake goes down. Belt bats third. Gary Brown bats leadoff. Lincecum goes to the bullpen. And the Giants win the West because of a bottle of glen-something, anything glen, whatever it is.

JD4SF

ClutchUp says:
August 16th, 2012 at 5:52 pm
239..
JD4SF says: LOL I’m not always positive. I can snarl, snark and cuss with the best … in private or when needed. But in a public forum I do try to stay balanced.

I can vouch for that
=======

LOL. Yep, you can.
BTW – Mark is having a great time telling all his 6th grade school buddies that he got some “special baseball coaching” when grandma and grandpa took him to the Giants game. That coach time ranks way higher than watching the Giants lose.

Scooter McFinch

JD would’ve been the lead Rosey-the-Riveter. Perhaps the gal on the poster.

Does this country need a World War III to pull it’s sheet back together ?

Scooter McFinch

Ahh yes, the Rogue.

We missed the Rogue and his high lipid content comments.

Welcome back.

Metro

“But when suiting up for the game, I don’t want players distracted. I want the TEAM focused.”

========

Unless they are reading the Giants Extra Blog while they are pulling on their uniforms, I doubt our comments here will distract them.

You can capitalize TEAM all you want — but your goal is here is pretty transparent. All of your comments come down to the same ideas basically: Root for the team, don’t criticize the team, don’t distract the team, the team is not at fault — it’s either Melky’s fault of MLB’s fault but not the Giants fault.

If you ever criticized the team for anything of substance – and I’m not counting your “oh darn, he should have caught that” pretend criticisms, then I might put more credence into what you say.

Who knows who you really are — but it’s clear you walk the walk and talk the talk of a shill for the TEAM.

We await your next dressing down for daring to criticize any aspect of the TEAM.

Jstreet

Steve Martin best as a comedian. What I think. And we could all use a laugh. I urge you to listen to Merle Haggard’s new single “Laugh It Off”. Nothing to do with Steve Martin (or the Giants), but it’s good music and good advice.

JD4SF

Scooter McFinch says:
August 16th, 2012 at 6:40 pm
253..
JD would’ve been the lead Rosey-the-Riveter. Perhaps the gal on the poster.
==

Nope. I would have been *management* above Rosey-the-Riveter. LOL

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

JD4SF,

my mistake, I thought I remembered you mentioning some connection to the AG’s office or something, during the mid winter lull.

Metro

Nope. I would have been *management* above Rosey-the-Riveter. LOL

+++++

Now this I believe 1000 percent.

Jonathan Poundwater

Sabean listens to media. Idiot. Sabean doesn’t listen to media. Idiot. Too many of you talk out of both sides of your mouth; as if you should be the GM of an MLB team. It’s not going to happen. Cut down the hyperbole if want anyone to pay any bother.

You really think he knew; after Bonds, you think he knew. I have a spot down in Roswell next to David Stern’s NBA lottery fix I’d like to sell you.

JD4SF

Metro says:
August 16th, 2012 at 6:42 pm
255..
You can capitalize TEAM all you want — but your goal is here is pretty transparent. All of your comments come down to the same ideas basically: Root for the team, don’t criticize the team, don’t distract the team, the team is not at fault — it’s either Melky’s fault of MLB’s fault but not the Giants fault.
=======

Sorry it appears you really don’t understand what I write here, nor what motivates me to write it.

Scooter McFinch

J Street,

You didn’t just say Merle Haggard and New Single in the same sentence, did you?

If it don’t come up easy on youtube, I give up. We’re all haggard.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Martin will forever be King Tut. Maybe the funniest comic routine ever done.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Dare we hope that was ‘the last Metro’.

JD4SF

channelclemente says:
August 16th, 2012 at 6:50 pm
258..
JD4SF,

my mistake, I thought I remembered you mentioning some connection to the AG’s office or something, during the mid winter lull.
=======

No problem. Not me.

My paycheck was mostly on contract in the telecommunications industry. Worked for a contract firm, rose to management level, went on to be an independent consultant.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Metro: some fans like JD have a background that includes baseball @ variois levels which allow those who do to comment on the team aspect. The reason TEAM is capitalized is that it stands for Together Everyone Acieves More. It can be the same in the work place. Criticizing is easy, finding solutions is better served.

pacman68

Gary Brown picks up his third hit of the night!!

YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE! GET THE KID UP HERE! IF HE BOMBS HE BOMBS! CHRISTIAN IS TERRIBLE.

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

He coulda won a grammy buried in his jammies

Jstreet

Note to the so-called rogue: making grandiose snarky statements and calling others insulting names, AND being a know it all – is no way to go through life. Time to grow up, or just listen.

Now what do we do about all these green house gas producing cars and trucks.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Channel: In lieu of King Felix’s PG is there and stats that cover which PG was more dominantly thrown, ground ball outs, fly ball outs ettc? Tks!

Scooter McFinch

If I come across as a know-it-all, I’m sorry. I can’t help it. I have the internet at my disposal.

Jstreet

Scoot, it may not be a single, but is definitely one of the strongest pieces on his new (released within the past 6 months) album. And if you like Merle, it’s worth getting the disc. Go online for a sample listen. Also very apropo for today’s Giants disaster.

Scooter McFinch

Gary Brown may be 3-4 thus far, but he’s been in a cool spell.

It’s true, his singles and caught stealings probably wouldn’t do much for this team right now. Nothing Gregor Blanco or Justin Christian can’t do.

But heck – What can Brown do for you ?

Jstreet

Scooter, you know a lot, but you’re no knowitall. Now the rogue on the other hand…

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

I can’t take credit, a guy on an ESPN board posted this classic rant to go with Sabean’s BS statements you can get from good ole Schu. It just fits if you read it in Sabean’s voice, doesn’t it?

“My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we’d make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum… it’s breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.”

Scooter McFinch

can you feed me a link to that country stuff – brewed out of Bakersfield I imagine.

JD4SF

channelclemente says:
August 16th, 2012 at 6:55 pm
264..
Dare we hope that was ‘the last Metro’.
==========

Everyone has their own perspective.

I worked many years at management level, and still consult at management level. I spent decades learning to place a *huge* value on TEAMwork in emergency/disaster. I also played competitive softball until my mid-40s, and even spend some time coaching my grandkids now in Barn Baseball. My background certainly helps shape my own perspective, just as other folks will have different perspectives.

Scooter McFinch

Wisdom Cow,

That sounds more like Balzac.

Jstreet

And Cow, don’t flatter yourself. Your not in his league either. Remember that one time you changed your mind? Well that would never happen to a true know it all. And, you are thoughtful, to a fault. Now I’m sorry I uncorked this can o worms.

Scooter McFinch

J,

my impression is that if I can’t find a youtube link for this haggard song, merle listeners wouldn’t be the ones to get his song up on this internet contraption.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

CU,

IMO, any PG’s value, if you choose to think about it that way, has to be governed by the opposition and stage it’s done on. That’s got to make Larsen’s 1956 game against the Dodgers in the WS the top of the heap. In any case, given there have been 23 pitched in the 350,000 – 400,000 games played since just 1900, no matter the competition, they’re darn rare.

Jstreet

McFinch, the album is called “Working In Tennessee”. Released Oct of last year, time moves a little slowly for me. Try a site called Rhapsody, or better yet Amazon, you can probably get just that track. But the whole thing is good. For lyrics, go to any good lyrics site and you will start laughing it off right away. But it works best with Merle’s dulcet tones steering the boat.

JD4SF

Jstreet says:
August 16th, 2012 at 7:11 pm
281..
worms.

========

Worms?
The birds outside are returning to their nests for the night.

Must be time for dinner!

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

A PG’s value is determined by the testosterone level of the pitcher contrasted with the opposing LU. Too soon?

Stan

No game today? Why was I not informed??

Scooter McFinch

Don’t get mad if you lose at 21 – hear that Wisdom Cow.

Now I got patient enough to find it Jstreet. Not my cup of tea, but I appreciate it, he’s legend. I’m going to listen to a relatively unheralded blues guitar virtuoso , but I think he should be legend – Ronnie Earl. More my style. Cheers !

Jstreet

Love Ronnie Earl. Can’t go wrong. Glad you dug for the Hag, it does fit the time, I think.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Chris HAFT on KNBR in a few minutes….

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Stan,

someone cut the string on your soup cans?

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

CC tks regarding PG’s. Larson’s has to be the best save the last strike Yogi caught way outside lol. I guess I was referring to the ones that had the least difficult plays behind. Seemed Felix had 5 fly ball outs and non were difficult compared to Blancos catch…

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

PETALUMA LL has reached their fundraising goal. All parties can now attend to be there in person. No longer accepting donations. That was fast! Can anybody say Johnny Gomes?

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

CU,

here is how Fangraphs ranked all those back to 1960, so they didn’t include the 1956 Larsen Perfecto. If I recall, they ranked them by wOBA of the opposition, which probably explains why they didn’t go further back than 1960, incomplete database. Cains is tied with Koufax’s.

KNBR haha drunken fans should be screened a little better, whew. I now know what that sounds like, how would a drunken fan post on here

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

CC thanks!

http://yahoo BALDHEADSLICK1

Justin Christian coming up huh? what a damn joke that is, is that the best we have to offer in the minors?OMG the G’s organization better start drafting better hitters because the pitching staff ain’t as good as it use to be. Cain, and timmy IMO have taken a step back this season. Perfect game was great but he’s done nothing since. If the pitching steps up we can do this with pitching, defense and the timely hit.

http://yahoo BALDHEADSLICK1

Little bored tonight without G’s baseball but i’ll be ok. Sitting here watching the A’s on TV sure wish we had that Cespedes cat.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

@708 I donkt what to say, would make for a good movie though….

Metro

ScooterMc, your not a no-it-all your a gadfly

http://yahoo BALDHEADSLICK1

MLB’s commisioner’s office will concentrate on any G’s player from here on out who might be having a great season.

http://yahoo BALDHEADSLICK1

That’s all I got for tonight. Bye Bye

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

You can always tell when the Yankees are feeling like a jilted lover. The take on Cabrera from Riveravenueblues, the unofficial-official Yankee floater of ideas.

“Isn’t this Melky Cabrera stuff just sad? You know I’m not the biggest Melky fan in the world, but it’s sad because he was so close to a life-changing contract. We have no idea how much the added testosterone helped his performance, but the story about him getting into shape and taking his career seriously after getting released by the Braves seemed completely plausible. Melky always had some skills, he makes lots of contact and he has a pretty good idea of the strike zone, so it’s not completely unexpected that he turned into a BABIP machine during his peak years. Now his free agent value is destroyed — I was thinking something along the lines of six years and $80-90M this offseason, but he might have to settle for a one-year, prove yourself contract now. He was staring at money that would put his great great great grandkids through college, now he has to do it all over again to land that kind of payday. Rough.”

thank you Metro. you my have pegged me in one word pretty well. that could be particularly accurate in light of my pestering of the Wisdom Cow.

now where’s that hemlock, let’s get it over with !

SurfCity

Pacman, Knowing Bochy the way you do, you still want Sabean to bring up Brown? Aren’t you afraid of another fiasco along the lines of the way Belt was mishandled by Bochy?

Scooter McFinch

“Aren’t you afraid of another fiasco along the lines of the way Belt was mishandled by Bochy?”

Number nine… number nine…. number nine…. number nine…

2HoleHitting

For the Giants to succeed they need pitching to step up. The vaunted starters have gone 6 innings with a 4 or less era in 25 games out of the last 50 games. That is a 500 quality start rate. The team is 26 and 24 in that stretch.

No pitcher has been outstanding and only Bumgarner and Vogelsong have 6 out of their past 10 games going 6 innings or more with a less than 4.00 era.

Zito on pace for his 5 worst ERA in his career.

The starters need to step it up. They need to hit a groove like in 2010. They are wallowing in mediocrity and that is why they are walloing at 500 over the last 1/3 of the season

SurfCity

About the TEAM stuff (and thanks for the definition, CU). That’s a perfectly fine concept for the team itself to follow – the players, coaches etc.

But it’s not something the fans have any obligation to follow. Besides being a team and a TEAM the Giants organization is a corporation subject the whims of the free market.

Now I understand why they try to get their fans into the “go team go” frame of mind — because they want to make money off those fans. But fans hold the power of the purse strings. And the corporations that run the teams, know this. It’s a fan’s right criticize, complain and decide whether or not to buy merchandise or tickets and decide whether or not to watch games on TV, which affects advertising numbers.

It’s also a fans right to object as loudly as they want to situations like the one with Melky and the issues of drugs in baseball. Fans are under no obligation to observe the TEAM rules.

Baseball holds a monopoly of sorts, but unlike other corporations, they get away with it because they have an anti-trust exemption granted to them by Congress. Congress is usually pretty willing to keep that going. But if there’s one thing Congress wants to appear to be stern about, it’s the “war on drugs.” If baseball messes that up, and public opinion starts going south, you’re tempting Congress to jump in.

So yes, go team go. But as for the TEAM stuff — that’s for the teams, not for blog posters, or customers/consumers or fans — whatever name you fancy.

pacman68

SurfCity

You are right. Bochy could never pry Pagan away from center field.

Does anyone know Harpers batting average before he what brought up? Just curious.

SurfCity

CU said, “The reason TEAM is capitalized is that it stands for Together Everyone Acieves More. It can be the same in the work place. Criticizing is easy, finding solutions is better served. ”

Clutch, thanks again for the definition. For fans though it’s a bit different — we’re in no position to find solutions and implement them. And sometimes when people do offer their opinions on solutions, someone comes around here and says STFU you’re not a a GM!!!

That’s all we’ve got. Offering up proposed solutions — or complaining. So while I agree with you the TEAM thing might work well in a company setting, where people worked there and could offer suggestions, it doesn’t really work as a concept for fans to follow.

Fans get to bitch and moan and suggest course of action while having no power to implement it -except for the ultimate power of course, which is to keep their money in their pockets.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Went over my head, damn altitude Footy!

pacman68

I looked myself. If Harper was on the Giants … he would still be in the minors.

BROWN – AVERAGE .283 OPS .748
HARPER – AVERAGE .245 OPS .690

SurfCity

Pac, i know where you’re coming from though. It is tempting.

pacman68

SURFCITY

Maybe he isn’t the answer but you can’t tell me he wouldn’t be a better option then freaking Christian or Blanco right now.

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

Save the not so inspiring but possibly still worth watching Giants. Fire Bochy.

SurfCity

ClutchUp says:
August 16th, 2012 at 6:58 pm

Metro: some fans like JD have a background that includes baseball @ variois levels which allow those who do to comment on the team aspect. The reason TEAM is capitalized is that it stands for Together Everyone Acieves More. It can be the same in the work place. Criticizing is easy, finding solutions is better served.

-0–0–0

Clutch – thanks again for the definition. Fans of a baseball team of course have no power to to find solutions let alone implement them. So that’s why I contend the TEAM concept is fine for the actual team, but not for the fans. So I’m not sure why the TEAM term is used here so often if that’s the actual meaning.

SurfCity

Pac yeah – and I’d love the idea of bringing Brown up better, with a different skipper at the helm

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Surf City, good stuff. I am a baseball fan first and a Giant fan 1a. I don’t own any gear except by 2002WS sweatshirt and my SF hat, 10 yrs old. Take the train to park. Bye tickets from our work pool. Bottled water and Large popcorn or brink sandwhich from home. Section 103 or up in 231 I see the game through a different set of etes. Use to be ctitical of everything “my guys” failed @ but realized its 9 on 9. Enjoyed your post.

fooj

Just watched Baseball Tonight and not one word re: Cabrera. Too busy attempting to justify the Dodgers meltdown today.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

*eyes*

SurfCity

fooj, inteesting. I assume it was the big story last night.

CB

At least Dodgers lost today. But Sabes makes some dumb moves sometimes.

http://www.mercurynews.com ClutchUp

Fooj, also heard that the Melky camp was tickled that King Felix threw his PG on the same day….

All y’all will be happy to hear that our Panda is at the movies (“The Campaign”) with Marco Scutaro and Hector Sanchez. 7:00 show. Hopefully home to a nice early bedtime.

Lots of clubs and places in the Gaslamp for a naughty Panda with time on his hands. Hopefully Marco tucks him in with his stuffed bear and keeps him out of trouble.

We NEED the 2011 Panda–the focused, carry-the-team, in-shape Panda–right now. Step up, Panda. The team needs you. We believe you have it in you.

And I’m really, really sorry that a couple of months ago I suggested Melky Cabrera could be a role model for you. Delete! Delete! Delete! Stick with consummate pro Marco, idealistic Gregor, and sweet young Hector. They won’t steer you wrong.

Lefty

Surf: Braun, right? Those are pretty consistent numbers.

SurfCity

Yeah, they don’t really increase like the one’s wc shows, though they are consitently high

Lefty

Why DID the Dodgers melt down like that, anyway? They should be on top of the world. Did you know Donnie Ballgame has been kicked out of more games than any MLB manager this year?

I watched the last few innings of that game, and as a card-carrying Hater, I found some things to be encouraged about:

–Hanley is just a total immature jerk. Just a matter of time before he poisons things in LA like he did in MIA. Sooooo glad he didn’t end up here.
–Blanton hasn’t helped the Dodgers AT ALL. In fact, whatever the opposite of “help” is, that’s what he’s done.
–There are some real weak links in that bullpen. Jansen’s pretty good, but he can get rattled. Shades of Neftali Feliz in 2011? Jamey Wright is really bad, Brandon League’s been a gas can (I think Slash78 called that one at the deadline), and Choate hasn’t been very good either.

Kemp is a great player, the real deal. But why did he go so apes**t today? He’s sure to get suspended. The Dodgers are playing well, and he’s been doing great. Why did he get so mad so easily over a couple close strike calls?

Trouble in paradise, maybe?

al oha

You guys who insist on denigrating Lincecum’s performance yesterday should examine much closer.

It is easy to perpetuate the perception that he was “putrid”, disappointing, horrible, etc. upon just looking at the box score, or perpetuating a layman’s perception. But, with just average Defensive support, the results could have been much better to your liking.

Whoever’s idea it was to play Pence too far over into RCF, against Lombardozzi, allowed a routine lazy flyball to drop for a hit. The exaggerated Infield Overshift against LaRoche was uncalled for, turning a routine bounder to second, into an infield single. Heck, Lombardozzi almost scored from 2nd on a grounder? Theriot threw to home plate and Lincecum almost tried to cut it, because he was standing in line in utter disbelief that THAT was almost a run-scoring single? It was a ROUTINE GROUNDER.

Don’t even get me started with the “DOUBLE?” that Pagan was totally lost on. What is he looking for? A Centerfielder is suppose to catch ALL FLYBALLS that he can get to. He has 1st Priority on anything in the air, R, L, and infielders. You would’ve had to knock Willie Mays DOWN to keep him from catching that fly. He would have been there waiting for it and caught it waist high, signature basket-catch style.

As a kid, my favorite thing in the world was to go to Candlestick Park, run up the ramps, fling open the double doors, seeing the perfectly mown green grass, dragged infield dirt, and white bases. And then when the Giants took the field, watching 24 trot out to Centerfield. A Living Legend. A watched closely, every move he made. Grace and Power. Style and Pure Joy. Oh, what a Player. For those who saw him, they would have to concur. For those who never got that Privilege, trust me you can watch old clips and just imagine. I consider myself most Fortunate to have witnessed Greatness and a Baseball God playing a kid’s game so naturally.

SurfCity

I wonder how Victorino is doing down there, Lefty

al oha

Ask, a recently hot-hitting, Ryan Zimmerman, if he thought Lincecum has lost anything and was putrid out there on the mound.

Tim Lincecum could be the answer as a Closer in a short Series of games. Cain, MadBum, Vogelsong, and Lincecum, three Stud Starters and a Closer for the playoffs.

The question is, can the Giants even GET into the playoffs?

pacman68

Lefty

Did Pablo have the bucket size popcorn with butter, large slurpee, nachos and a box of red vines?

hari

Get Cody Ross from Boston.

That’s the only solution…

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

Cespedes with another HR today. If only Sabean had listened to me.

Oh well. Go TEAM!

Fontenot can play some OF, right?

Lefty

al: I was the one who said “putrid,” and you absolutely have a point about the horrible defense. It seems like Timmy’s had more than his share of that this year, too.

Timmy made some terrible pitches, too, and I gotta say, it was very typical of his bad outings all season. In previous years, he’d bear down and make good pitches when he had two outs or two strikes. This year, he serves it up to nobody hitters.

I don’t have quite the sympathy I had for Vogelsong’s third inning the other night (the Scutaro/Theriot show). Yeah, there were some miscues. But Vogey almost always makes the tough pitches in those situations. He has one of the best averages in the league with runners in scoring position. Timmy, this year, almost never does. The David Wright strikeout with the bases loaded a couple weeks ago stands out because it was so unusual.

I will always be a fan of Tim Lincecum. But there is something missing mentally for him this year. I don’t know what it is. But I wish he would get it back.

Lefty

pac: hahahaha. You know, both Pablo and Hector tweeted about the movie, but neither one mentioned the snacks.

For me, IF I am going to indulge (and I almost never do), it’s Junior Mints and buttered popcorn. Yum.

Lefty

Surf: I think Vic started out slow there but has been pretty good the past week. He also deserves an assist today for keeping Kemp from ending up in jail after putting the ump in the hospital. And I’m not exaggerating very much.

408svl

i like the idea that blanco is going to start playing. he was great at the lead off spot beginning of the season and then tailed off. the top of the line up is the area that needs to be fixed . finding his stroke back would be a bonus to the the line up that is sorely needed.

Pagan and blanco is on borrowed time. one of them will come back should one of them have a good year. nady probably not quiet ready to be called. next road trip will tell. 13 pitchers is what they have to do so all the pitchers will be fresh. i don’t think the pitchers are overly used. i think hacker is with the team because boch and sabe think that if zito and lincecum had bad games they will skip their turn. he is here for long relief.

christian will have another try with the team. we all know that he is a career minor leaguer. but you never know about baseball. he could be that guy who could be a big help. my bet is blanco. but christian brings experience.

between kontos and hacker will be evaluated. boch has seen what kontos could do. if he can stand the heat he will be there. hacker, boch hasn’t seen what he really brings other than what his coaches at the minor league says about him.

let’s not be ahead of our self. there are 45 games left. posey said, ” to have a chip in our shoulder ” and move on. why are we talking about next year. already? get over with cabrera. the guys that played with him were shocked. my guess is they didn’t have an inkling he was taking PED. as a GIANTS fan my hope is sabe and boch will find a diamond in the rough.

http://yahoo BALDHEADSLICK1

I swear Ned Colleti and Brian Sabean sound identical when they speak in terms of words they use how their said voice tone everything. I Know they worked together for years but damn.

pacman68

WISDOM COW

I was screaming for Reddick … if they just would have listened to the both of us.

pacman68

LEFTY

Ha! Ha!

Between Hector and Pablo the concession stand bill must have been over a 80 bucks.

The Tourist

Kemp probably too smart to get caught with roids, but I would NOT be surprised if he was juicing.

Now… about that Mike Trout kid. He would’ve looked SO much better in orange and black than red. He’s the real deal. If we crash and burn because of Melky’s idiocy, at least I’ll have fun watching Trout re-enact Willie Mays.

fuddyduddy

SurfCity —
no, you put words in my post that were never there!
you are now a skip over

dj

btw, whatever is going on with Lincecum, Bochy and Sabean are responsible for the decline. too many 120+ pitch outings

Jason Schmidt was never the same after the outing in Chicago. The arm destroyer named Dusty Baker let him throw 140 pitches. The G’s won 1-0. it was a great game but Schmidt was done.

If the g’s are not careful the next guy to crumble is Matt Cain or MadBum. watch the pitch count. how many times they go over 100

Bochy don’t really care because he needs to win to keep his job. its Sabean who must monitor the pitch count.

Conspirator

Kinda strange how Vogelsong was washed out of the pros two short years ago and then had a sudden resurgence at an age when most guys are beginning their descent. Isn’t it?

Speculator

Dom is back — another conspiracy

South City Jim

Lincecum’s had some bad breaks in his starts with bad defense, but the cold hard facts are that if the Giants were merely one game under .500 in his 25 starts (12-13), they’d be 3.5 games up on the Dodgers and 8.5 games up on the Snakes. I can’t believe folks here think he can close. His command has been awful all year long and his struggles have been magnified out of the stretch.

That said, all of the starters need to step it up the final six weeks. I still think we can win the West if the starters pitch to their potential down the stretch. Won’t be easy. To get to 90 wins, the team needs a 26-18 finish.

Not sure I’d skip a start with Hacker but if the opportunity presents itself, he could make a spot start to move everyone back and gain a competitive advantage and/or give the starting five an extra day off.

jerseygiant

‘‘San Francisco is not good weather to play in, I’ve never played on the West Coast, but we’ll see what happens. I want to talk to my family and see.’’ (Alfonso Soriano). Amazing, he would rather stay a loser (again) in Chicago, than have a chance to help a winning team win again! Almost as dumb as what Melky did.

http://mercurynews.com antispy3

The Geek has had some bad breaks due to his defense? Did you really say that, South City Jim?

That’s like saying the whole JoePa/Penn State fiasco only went downhill after the Sandusky cat was let out of the bag. . .

You do notice the bad body language displayed by the Geek; his inability to locate pitches effectively (except in the dirt); his slightly higher ERA (uh, by a cool three runs per outing). . .next thing you’ll say is ‘well, his strikeout percentage is still there.”

It’s a known fact that a pitcher that keeps within the strike zone consistently keeps his defense on their toes; a pitcher that struggles in this area NOTORIOUSLY has a less effective defense. Add this to his body language & a defeatist attitude permeating within the Giants position players when the Geek is on the hill. . .

DO NOT persist in making excuses for his performance, regardless if it can be attributed to misuse (120 + pitches in particular ballgames, Bochy scrambling for his job, WS run, etc.) or otherwise. Y’all start sounding like Phillies fans (Cliff lee, Doc Holliday both on the decline. . .Ryan Howard & Chase Utley injuries, etc.). Giants (mis)management has to take responsibility for the present state of this ballclub; yeah, Melkman & Mota’s decision to artificially enhance their respective performances or recovery efforts have definitely hamstrung the Giants; but the Giants bad decisions of the past (A.J. Pierzynski trade, signing the albatross known as Barry Zito & Aaron Rowland, Carlos Beltran trade, etc.) has to be factored in & cannot merely be swept under the carpet with a public relations broom. . .of course, these issues won’t be addressed. . .ever, even if Sabean is cut loose & especially after Bochy is let go as the giants (mis)management chooses to go “in a new direction” for the forseeable future. . .

Conspirator, that is a unique take & one appropriate for someone of your hblog handle. . .and Soriano must have some stats to back up his reticence in donning the black & orange. . .of course, he will suffer a power outage, especially in night games if he does choose to participate in a pennant race instead of sunning himself with the Cubs second division fan base. . .

Yeah, more negativity from me. . .but, as usual I post this entry while wearing a complete Giants ensemble. . .Dodger fans are openly seeking me out again. . .I brought up the possibility of Matt Kemp @ least seeking “recovery” options a la the Melkman. . .still think the Giants will sign him next year. . .could be a one year “probationary” flier. . .Go Giants!

Andres The Forever Giant

“Kemp is a great player, the real deal. But why did he go so apes**t today? He’s sure to get suspended. The Dodgers are playing well, and he’s been “doing great. Why did he get so mad so easily over a couple close strike calls?”

Lefty, I really believe it’s ‘roid rage. Remember the tantrum Kemp threw in the dugout after re-aggravating the hamstring injury? It was beyond someone having a fiery temper!

JD4SF

SurfCity says:
August 16th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
About the TEAM stuff (and thanks for the definition, CU). That’s a perfectly fine concept for the team itself to follow – the players, coaches etc.
But it’s not something the fans have any obligation to follow. Besides being a team and a TEAM the Giants organization is a corporation subject the whims of the free market.
[...] the TEAM thing might work well in a company setting, where people worked there and could offer suggestions, it doesn’t really work as a concept for fans to follow.
===========

Absolutely, the Giants franchise is running a business. Players are assets. I’ve mentioned this before, as have others. Fans are certainly not obligated to support any franchise, and can also choose to change teams to support another. Fans also have every right to question and critique based on their own perception of how things should be done.

But that does not preclude other fans from having differing perspectives and opinions. We’ve seen an example of that regularly here even on who should be in the lineup, in what position, in what order.

If looking at things from the TEAM (Together Everyone Achieves More ) perspective is not one you’re comfortable with, that’s entirely up to you. But there are others who do tend to also see things from the team/TEAM or even management perspective, and that is their prerogative.

Everyone sees things from their own perspective, which is why we have differing opinions on the blog. And often differing opinions generates some great discussion, which is why this is such a great Giants blog comments to follow comments after reading Alex’s blog.

Some folks are into stats, others into line-ups, analyzing player performance, etc. While that can be interesting, with my background I also like having a better understanding of management decisions – even if I disagree, I try to understand *why* that decision was made and what may have influenced that decision. I also like having a better idea of the mental/psychological aspects of the players and team as a whole because I see it as a big factor in their potential success. So I tend to emphasize TEAM because I place high value on it … as does the team itself. This is the “team chemistry” the players refer to, or “gelling” of the various players into an actual team. Harder to succeed without it.

And yes, I do believe that media and fan uproar on a subject can – and does – impact players and thus impacts the TEAM effort. We recently saw evidence of that with a Brandon Belt blog where he directly addressed issues bandied about by media and fans online. Obviously he was well aware of the uproar. And Bochy certainly fields plenty of media questions that might as well have come from a fan’s blog comment, as does Sabean. So I disagree with those who believe media and fan opinions don’t have an impact on players or the franchises.

For some reason, folks here who try to see the management perspective or are more positive about the team are accused of being Giants plants / shills. Using that kind of logic, those who are anti-management or perpetually negative about things Giant could be perceived as Dodgers plants / shills, here to stir up dissension among Giants fans. I don’t believe either is true.

Each is expressing his/her own opinion. But I see no logic in turning differences of opinion into personal attacks. Nor am I a happy camper when the blog comments degenerate into a virtual combat zone. Reading the blog comments stops being fun and interesting.

I have no objection at all to folks expressing their own POV, as long as they keep it civil. They get their opinion, just as I get mine. 8)

JD4SF

As long as I’m on a roll expressing MY opinion before getting some more work done …

Folks who are upset with Sabean, Bochy or players for somehow dodging a question and are demanding answers might have fewer ulcers if they remember fans do *not* have a right to know absolutely everything that goes on in that person’s head, in the clubhouse, or at the management level.

Frankly, I’d be very disappointed – and concerned – if they didn’t use some discretion. Communicating with the Public 101.

They’re running a business, and that business is baseball. Buying tickets or fan gear doesn’t allow us into the inner sanctums, just like buying items at a department store doesn’t somehow make us an owner of that store.

If not being privy to every aspect of that business is a big problem, the fan always has the option of trying to find another franchise they’re happier with. Rather like choosing to shop at a different department store if you’re not happy with X at the first store.

pologrounds

How about Cody Ross again from the Red Sox?

Vegas Giants Fan

@JD4SF at 1:44 am

Great post. +++++

You expressed what I’ve been feeling about how people address others posters opinions. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If someone wants to be a cheerleader, so be it. If someone’s posts lean towards the negative/critical of management or players, that’s cool too. What I get tired of is when I see that someone has taken the time to express their thoughts and then watch their post be summarily dismissed. Told to go post somewhere. That their not welcome here. So JD, thanks again for your post.

I know the players feel that way privately .. but for the good of the game it is time for the clean players, if there are ANY, to step up and defend the game IMO!!

I am not the only one who is sick and tired of this PED BS and feel cheated. I want to know what I see on the field is due to hard work and talent … not who has the best damned chemist and is best at avoiding getting caught.

Mavo wrote: I want to know what I see on the field is due to hard work and talent … not who has the best damned chemist and is best at avoiding getting caught.
=====

Agree.

My grandson is still depressed that one of his “heroes” became a “hero” by breaking the rules / cheating. Now relegated to non-hero status, with player card tucked away instead of proudly displayed. I don’t have the heart to tell him that it is possible that a large percentage of pro ballplayers do the same thing, gambling they won’t get caught.

Atlas

And it’s far from being only pro baseball players…

Hitman

A man who was having breakfast in San Fran Freako this week was asked if he wanted juice with his meal. The man replied “Do i look like a Gnats ball player?” Every game that the Gnats won this year with the juicer in the lineup should be moved to the loss column! Heh,heh,heh!!

http://sanjosemerc.com Giants4Ever

Just read the Chronicle article about the 10 year old whose father let him and his friend out of school to see his favorite player Melkey play on a school day. First nothing is more important than school what an awful father, 2nd couldn’t imagine at 10 my favorite Giant being a first year FA when Posey is on the team, double fail dad!

GO GIANTS !

GO TEACHERS !

Cody Ross

#6 MAVO!!!!! BRAVO!!!!

I haven’t posted in nearly a year!!!! Glad to see you’re still at it!!!!

Happy to see you remember!!!!!!!!!! Keep em coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://nada paul in p.v.

Al oha – good dissection of the crappy defense that flummoxed the Freak – his lack of command and the repeated necessity to get 4 outs an inning have caused him to check out for some reason (THAT is the mystery question). If you saw his post-game interview he seemed almost satisfied with the way he pitched – not quite as bad as Jonny S. – and said he “got foul-balled to death.” He also indirectly alluded to the misplays behind him.

Pagan drives me to distraction – he is simply afraid of running into anything (like a wall or teammate) – plays it safe on everything, then uses his speed to compensate for poor judgement. (A couple days ago a poster yesterday made a great joke about the only time he’s touched a wall this year.) Even Kuiper criticizes him for not catching balls since he is “the captain out there.” Why oh why don’t Boch switch him and Blanco???

2HoleHitting

The Giants have 14 series left and 44 games.
They need to go 26 and 18 at a minimum to reach 90 wins and a potential playoff.
They need to go 27 and 17 to likely wint he division.
They need to win 10 of the 14 sereies to have a chance at the plaoffs

7 series are against teams in the Hunt for the playoffs.

3 series left with the Dodgers 2 in LA (9 games)
3 series left against the DBacks 2 at home.(9 games)
1 Series against Atlanta at home(4 games)
3 Series agains Padres 2 on the road.(9 games)
1 series against Houston on the road (3 games)
2 series against Colorado 1 at home(7 games 4 at home)
1 series against Chicago on the road (3 games)

Win 2 of 3 series from the dodgers 5-4
Win 2 of 3 series from the DBAcks 5-4
Win 3 of 4 from the Braves 3-1
Win 3 series from the Padress 6-3
Sweep Houston 3-0
Take 3 of 4 in SF and win the series in Co. 5-2
Take 2 of 3 from Chicago 2-1

record to end 29 and 25
12 series of 14 won.

If they lose 2 sereies against the Dodgers and Dbacks
They win 10 of the final series and go 27 and 17. Winning the division but would be a wild card.

If they split with the Braves they are 26 and 18 and a potential wild card

If they do not sweep Houston and/or do not go 5 and 2 against the Rockies, and lose 2 of 3 to the Dodgers, they likely miss the playoffs

2HoleHitting

The Giants are in the final home strech. 14 series left. They need to win series 10 series and sweep 1 one without being swept. 9 series wins likely sends them home for the season unless they have mutiple series sweeps.

They need to go 26 and 18 at a minimum and 29 and 15 to win it all.

Scooter McFinch

Whoa,

Let’s simplify matters. The Giants and Dodgers are tied in the loss column with the Bums. They just have to lose one fewer game, or win two more down the stretch. Don’t they play 9 more times?

Batters have to hit the ball.

Pitchers have to pitch the ball.

Go get ‘em. Go Giants !

Giant PITA

al oha,

You make some legitimate points regarding the poor defensive support Tim has received in many of his starts. When extra outs are given to the opposition it takes a definite toll on the pitcher. However, it is obvious Tim’s command is severly diminished from his previous seasons. Add that to his reduced velocity and you end up with lots of walks, more stressful situations in the stretch and the plethora of “cookies” served up to hitters that would have been no match for the Tim of years past. It sure would be nice to see the old Tim return, but I’m not holding my breath.

If you compare Pagan (or any other CF) to Mays you are going to be disapointed with that player. Pagan is no gold glove defender, never will be, but there is only one Mays and comparing anyone to him will always leave that player looking inadequate. Removing your comparison to Mays, though, and you have excellent points regarding Pagan and his responsibility to take charge in CF, which he doesn’t do nearly enough. Pitching and defense is the SF recipe for sucess. The D needs to show up!

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

It’s that time of year again, and in light of recent events, everyone should be heading to San Diego to take a load off.

However, on this week’s “The Franchise,” there was a game between the Mets and the Marlins…and they showed a clip of Andres Torres making a fantastic running catch in CF to end the game. I was letting out audible groans. We all know Torres had huge struggles at the plate last year, but oh, were we spoiled watching him cover ground in CF. Even though it’s Pagan who was traded for Torres, it’s Blanco who reminds me of him. Pagan is a better hitter than either of them–and a worse defender.

It strikes me how we’ve suddenly gone in a couple short weeks from outfield defense being a strength of the team to now being kind of scary. Before the July 31 deadline, we had Blanco or Nate in RF (and at some points, Blanco in CF) and Melky as a very solid LF defender. Now we have Pence in RF, and though he has good speed and a great arm, he is definitely weaker defensively. That “triple” that broke up MadBum’s shutout is a good example. And now Melky is gone, to be replaced by Blanco/Christian–that duo is OK (though I’ve never seen anything impressive about Christian’s defense, either), but we still have shaky fielders in CF and RF.

The Oracle

What someone said earlier is very true. It’s a sad commentary on the state of the Giants’ farm system if Justin Christian is the best option.

Lefty

Someone (South City Jim?) made a point last night about the chicken/egg relationship between poor defense and Tim’s shaky pitching. Is Lincecum shaky because he’s had bad luck with his defense (leading to extra outs and stressful innings), or is the defense worse when Timmy pitches because his lack of command and confidence makes them jittery and/or lose focus?

It’s hard to say, but it seems like there’s some negative energy flowing both ways there.

Die Hard Giants Fan

Victor Conte: “estimates that half of the players in MLB are using synthetic testosterone”. How? If applied right after a game, it wears off in 6 hours. Plus, the drug testing uses basically a formula of 4 to 1 abnormality. So you could have 3.9 times the normal amount of testosterone and technically pass the test. If anything, this is not about Melky using but rather getting caught. Given the huge leeaway in testing, the way this stuff disappears after applying — how the heck could he let himself get caught? That said, I still favor the Giants signing him and any player that can help them win the WS, including gamblers like Rose, drunks like Ruth, pill poppers like most in 60′s.

Big

BIG times ahead for hitman, self rightous because he has no testosterone at all.

Giant PITA

Lefty,

The Mays/Pagan comparison never occurred to me either. I was responding to:

al oha says:
August 16th, 2012 at 9:56 pm

Lefty

College football fans: If you have access to Sports Illustrated, check out this week’s cover article on my boy, Matt Barkley. (And I fervently hope there’s no cover jinx this time!)

Even if you’re an ‘SC hater, it’s a wonderful piece about a very impressive young man. Every bit as much character as Tebow but without the hype. Barkley is also someone you’ll be watching on Sundays about a year from now–and I bet he’ll be as good as any of the other young QBs who’ve joined the NFL the past year or two. (He had better passing numbers than Andrew Luck last year, breaking Pac 12 records, too.)

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

I feel sorry for Barkley. Not only will he have to leave LA next year, but that pay cut . . .

Lefty

We’ve had pretty good outfield defense for the past few years, too. Torres, of course. Nate. Even Rowand, gotta say, was an above-average defensive outfielder. Cody Ross was serviceable and could play all three positions. Before them, Randy Winn.

We had the Water Buffalo outfielders (Huff & Burrell), but that didn’t last that long, and honestly, I don’t remember too many OF disasters with either of them. Jose Guillen was not impressive out there, but that was very short-lived.

In AT & T, it’s critically important to have competent coverage. The pitchers play to the park and throw a lot of fly balls (Cain especially). Looking forward to Gary Brown eventually being ready; apparently he’s a plus-defender in CF. Isn’t Peguero supposed to be pretty good out there too?

Lefty

WC: Barkley comes from a wealthy family in Newport Beach. He went to Mater Dei High School, and he and his twin siblings are all students at U$C. No need for him to be on the take. The family even decided against taking out an insurance policy on him when he passed on the NFL draft this year–they don’t need him to make big bucks to lift them up out of poverty.

With what he and his teammates have been through thanks to Reggie Bush, I’m guessing he’s one of the cleanest guys around.

BoSoxFaninSF

I would still like to see the Giants make a move outside the organization. Johnny Damon was DFA’d by the Indians and, although he hasn’t played well this season, he had a strong year last season. He’s certainly used to playing in high pressure situations and meaningful games in Sept/Oct. He’s also a great clubhouse presence which, while overrated, is probably something the Giants could use right now. Cody Ross might also be an option as the Red Sox are going nowhere fast. However, his swing is so suited to Fenway (saw him hit 2 doubles high off the wall last Tuesday – both are DF7s in AT&T) that the Sox may want to lock him up medium/long-term.

Another thought – schedule definitely favors Giants over Dodgers – Giants have only one series against a playoff contender from the East or Central (Braves at home next weekend) and still have a Chi/Hou roadtrip (I believe). Dodgers remaining opponents W-L is over .500 – Giants around .475.

Chris

Bay Area Moose

Todd Linden 2-5, 2 RBI last night.

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

“With what he and his teammates have been through thanks to Reggie Bush” Oh, stop. The school played the system to have the bowl ban and scholly reductions occur in different years. The team remained the only act in town during football season (what does that say about UCLA) with no NFL. It is as big a joke as the mlb steroid policy.

Further proof of the sham that is the mlb drug policy . . .

Teams can’t void contracts! Are you kidding me? Remember Kent’s motorcycle accident being “detrimental to the team” as possible grounds to void a contract, yet using illegal drugs to cheat is not enough? The players association is behind that and the owners acquiesced. The whole thing is bogus.

I’m also having real doubts that Krukow’s vacation just happened to be last week. He would not have kept quiet during the broadcast. Kuip and Miller would bring it up, but neither offered opinions on it, neither showed their disgust. Kruk would have worn his heart on his sleeve and gone off.

But oh, yeah, the organization had no idea it was coming. Lies, lies, lies.

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

See the cat? See the cradle?

Lefty

TWC: Fine, be a hater. I expect that from a Cal alum. But some people are clean and are good people. I believe Matt Barkley is one of them. You’re entitled to believe differently.

However, saying nasty things about the character of a 21-year-old college student who stayed the course during a two-year bowl ban (when he could have gone anywhere) and builds orphanages and schools in Africa on his school breaks–solely because of where he goes to school–is unbecoming for a man of your obvious intelligence and thoughtfulness. It does not bring credit to your alma mater, either.

Bay Area Moose

@ TWC – I agree, it was like ‘surprise! Krukow is on vacation’ almost like he did something wrong.

http://nada paul in p.v.

I’d love to see Damon reach 3K hits – but not with us – like Coco Crisp, he’s a “pie-thrower” – don’t need another one in the OF.

Remember the Fenway poster after he cut his hair to join the Yankees?

“Looks like Jesus.
Acts like Judas.
Throws like Mary”

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

I’m going back to Bokononism. I actually do write “Bokononist” for my religious affiliation on the US Census.

————————————-

from The Seventh Book: Bokonon’s Republic

“The hand that stocks the drug stores rules the world.

Let us start our Republic with a chain of drug stores, a chain of grocery stores, a chain of gas chambers, and a national game. After that we can write our Constitution.”

The Oracle

Bay Area Moose must be another Foothills AKA? Who else would care about Todd Linden?

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

Lefty, I expect a prof. to have better reading and comprehension skills. Where did I write “nasty things about the character of a 21-year-old college student” in Barkley? Where I did the old Ronnie Lott line about the pay cut? I criticised the school’s Braun-esque handling of their punishment for being caught running a sloppy program taking advantage of outside influences by turning a blind eye, the same behavior as mlb with steroids.

Lefty

Jon Miller was on vacation last week. Should we be suspicious about that, too?

Krukow has been doing his every-other-day radio shows with Murph and Mac all week. He’s been watching the games and commenting knowledgeably and passionately about them. He had plenty to say about Melky today. There is no reason to believe he’s suspended, being silenced, or whatever. Just because he gets a few days off? They all do, every season.

Lefty

TWC: And now you’re talking down to me–of course: You went to Cal and I went to USC, so of course you’re smarter than me and I can’t even read. You suggested Barkley was on the take and reiterated it in a follow-up post (“Oh, stop.”) when I pushed back against that suggestion. And that IS a character accusation, and it IS nasty and completely unfounded.

Anyway, enough. All I wanted to say is the Sports Illustrated article is worth a read. I would say that regardless of what school the young man attended. It was a good piece. Take the recommendation or leave it.

No, Lefty, “oh stop” following a direct quote is in reference to the quote. You are the one that failed to read my 8:41 as a joke – a joke at least 50% of this board recognizes from the roast of Ronnie Lott “then he took a pay cut and joined the 49ers” (a double whammy given this was when DeBartalo was dropping buckets of cash in players’ laps).

[SARCASM COMING] Oh yes, you are definitely less intelligent than all Cal grads. And men, too. As a woman, you are clearly less intelligent than any man as well, how telling that you forgot to leave that out, poor thing.

Fitz23

Baseball is a game of streaks and as long as the pitching is hot; you give yourself a great change of winning. The giants can fill in that gap and that player might even produce more than melky did for the homestretch.

the problem however is that your season is a scam season which should be rejected automatically by using a cheater virtually throughout the season.

be that is it truly stands, please note that the post #2 by huffpost above couldn’t be worded more perfectly. It’s silly for anyone to not believe that they fully marketed and pushed players like bonds, estella, santigo, and now melky fully aware of how deceptive they were and turned out to be

Fitz23

major league baseball should require the giant’s organization before every radio and television broadcast to put out a disclaimer or message

WE CHEATED AND OUR GAMES ARE NOW JUST EXHIBITION GAMES THAT DON’T COUNT

THEY ONLY COUNT FOR THE OTHER TEAM AND EVEN AT THAT SINCE WE CHEATED..WE BASICALLY ARE MAKING THIS GAME A FAKE BOGUS TELECAST OF CHEATERS

Hitman

Every game the Gnats won this year with the juicer in the lineup should go into the loss column. Season over and you posters can finally go out and look for real work! Heh,heh,heh!!!

Fitz23

welcome back hitman:

they got nothing on you ….notice how they bash posters like you>

reason being because they are just as bitter and hateful as mitt romney.

where’s your list of cheaters boche??

and where’s your tax returns of offshore accounts romney???

wooo!!!!

BoSoxFaninSF

Paul in PV – agreed that throwing is not one of Damon’s strengths but he is a line drive gap hitter and still runs reasonably well – he doesn’t have to start and could certainly be a complimentary player for the remainder of the season (I’m not suggesting he go for 3,000 hits here – just want him as a stopgap/insurance for the remainder of the season). If Blanco cannot return to his early-season form, an alternative is going to be needed and there isn’t one on the roster right now.

Scott Hairston might also be an option.

Hitman

The Panda will be next to be suspended! Can’t tell me he is not juicing. Heh,heh,heh!!.

Bay Area Moose

Sorry Orator, just seen Christian, been there, done that.

Linden could be another diamond in the rough. Hell I even mentioned Lollis yesterday.

The FO seems to not want to bring Peguero or Brown up, so look at the options at hand.

Lefty

Have they said yet how many games Kemp will be suspended for following his ‘roid rage incident in Pittsburgh yet?

Heh, heh, heh.

mario

Todd Linden are you kidding?

Bay Area Moose

‘mario’ must be another ‘Oracle’ AKA? Who else would not care about Todd Linden?

mario

I guess anyone is better than Christian!

Bay Area Moose

mario says:
August 17th, 2012 at 10:18 am

That’s all I’m saying

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

I’ve heard Whiteside can run pretty fast. Maybe he can take LF.

mario

how about picking up fred lewis while we are on the subject of linden!

The Oracle

I think we’ve all seen enough of Justin Christian.

http://nada paul in p.v.

Bosox Fan: I agree with you that Damon can still play, and could be a useful stopgap for the Gints. Used to watch him in KC when he came up and god what a player that kid was – had to repeat that Fenway slur only because it’s so funny in a cruel baseball way…

fooj

Hey Fitz- see Democratic Convention in Denver if you want to talk cheating. How about Florida and Michigan’s votes not counting? Give me a break. Life is full of cheaters. FWIW- I’m a registered Dem so there’s no partisan bs involved in my comment. Just call em as I see em.
You might want to go find a political blog to post your well coined “talking points”…a tool is a tool is a tool is a tool.

Now- back to baseball!!!

Go Giants! Bring it on!!!

Hitman

@Lefty: Sorry. Poor try! Heh,heh,heh!!!

Fitz23

Has anyone called the giant’s organization or pr staff and asked them whether or not before all telecasts:

to warn fans that they are watching a product that cheated baseball this year and by moral and ethical standards should really not even be considered as a real team based on the scam they used by signing this major key free agent in melky cabrera.

also they all were boasting how great he was doing and now it all turns out to be a big hoax.

we need the facts to come out or it won’t be doing mlb and fans justice

Fitz23

this situation is very much like mitt romney not addressing tax returns..

I am not here making a mockery of this either. THIS MELKY THING IS A HUGE STORY!!!

AMERICA CAN’T KEEP HAVING ORGANIZATIONS IN SPORTS SENDING THE YOUTH OF AMERICA THIS MESSAGE:

IT’S OK TO CHEAT AND THEN NOT TALK ABOUT IT IN DETAIL

Fitz23

How many giant’s with the last decade or so have been suspended for cheating?

The Giants can be docked the games they won with Melky the same day the Dodgers are stripped of the NL West titles they won in 2008 and 2009 with Cheater Manny, the one they took back in ’09 after he was suspended for 50 games because they were so desperate to win and couldn’t without him. The hard-working, clean 2009 Giants would then deservedly be rewarded with a first-place finish!

bradley emden

Survival instinct will not cut it. Winning instinct is what is needed.

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