Here's the big news, the nonpartisan budget analysts office of California has projected a possible budget surplus due to the passage of Prop 30 in last week's election. Prop 30 is Gov. Brown's proposal to increase taxes on the rich to get more revenue for the struggling state budget. This is big news, because ever since Prop 13 in the 1970's, California's rate of budget revenues has slowly decreased. We are cutting fire departments during fire season here, there's no place else to cut, and the citizens of California understand that.

So, again, the people have spoken. Now, will the GOP allow Obama to do the same for the national budget, or will they continue filibustering, blocking, and refusing to listen to the will of the people?

deanhills

Looks as though the people have spoken indeed. The rich like Gates and Warren Buffet have also just about pleaded to be taxed. So this must be on the cards for the Federal Government. But yes, can see the Republicans not making it easy to pass it and that is a good thing though isn't it? At least will get the Dems to prepare the Bill very carefully - probably another 1000 plus pages and plenty of artful negotiations in the back room.

handfleisch

deanhills wrote:

Looks as though the people have spoken indeed. The rich like Gates and Warren Buffet have also just about pleaded to be taxed. So this must be on the cards for the Federal Government. But yes, can see the Republicans not making it easy to pass it and that is a good thing though isn't it? At least will get the Dems to prepare the Bill very carefully - probably another 1000 plus pages and plenty of artful negotiations in the back room.

Do you know about the "fiscal cliff"? It's NOT a good thing if Republicans keep blocking tax sanity.

deanhills

handfleisch wrote:

deanhills wrote:

Looks as though the people have spoken indeed. The rich like Gates and Warren Buffet have also just about pleaded to be taxed. So this must be on the cards for the Federal Government. But yes, can see the Republicans not making it easy to pass it and that is a good thing though isn't it? At least will get the Dems to prepare the Bill very carefully - probably another 1000 plus pages and plenty of artful negotiations in the back room.

Do you know about the "fiscal cliff"? It's NOT a good thing if Republicans keep blocking tax sanity.

I understand where you are coming from. At the same time like the idea of checks and balances and the Republicans do provide all of that, regrettably politically motivated of course, but then Obama is and is supposed to be a savvy politician himself.

Possum

More TAX = More Government... ( Which is Socialism )

NO Tax = more money to invest.

Investment = Job....

c'tair

I would rather listen to Milton Friedman's views on his these issues should be cleared up. I just started exploring those views, so I can't boast being an expert, but his views are basically about actually lowering the taxes and letting the market work out the problems. I believe he also talked about the possibility of privatizing things like the police, which sounds like an extremely interesting idea.

One argument I have for actually cutting taxes is the huge inefficiency of the government. The free market doesn't tolerate inefficiency - inefficient companies go bankrupt and a competitor fills their place with better services or products. This is close to how UPS and DHL came into existence - if the USPS was efficient and met the needs of people, UPS and DHL wouldn't have grown to huge and wealthy companies.

We can keep increasing the taxes in hopes that the money will go towards things that matter, or we could actually put that money towards things that matter.

Ever had a visit to the DMV? Or any other bastion of bureaucracy like that? It's taxes that pay for those long lines and incompetence. What is more - you have no way to affect that institution. Sure, you can file a complaint, but that's just playing by that office's rules and you will hardly ever win.

If such entities were private, it would be a matter of voting with your money. If the DMV was a private store, would you ever shop their twice?

So to sum up - I think that raising taxes is merely a relief for the symptoms but not a solution for the cause.

handfleisch

c'tair wrote:

Ever had a visit to the DMV? Or any other bastion of bureaucracy like that? It's taxes that pay for those long lines and incompetence. What is more - you have no way to affect that institution. Sure, you can file a complaint, but that's just playing by that office's rules and you will hardly ever win.

If such entities were private, it would be a matter of voting with your money. If the DMV was a private store, would you ever shop their twice?

Just curious-- next to your username it says you are in Poland. Are you really in Poland? How often do you get to visit a DMV from Poland?

Iceaxe0410

You know it's really misleading when Proposition 30 is described as taxing the rich. Didn't anyone read that it also places a one fourth cent tax on every dollar spent for four years? That means everyone is paying the tax no matter what income bracket you are in. So long as you buy stuff in California, you will be paying sales tax on every dollar you spend. That adds up to quite a large sum for the average person.

Just to be clear, I'm not against raising the sales tax for four years if it will help our economy. I'm just against people that say it's solely taxing the rich. I know that it does increase taxes for those making over $250,000/year for seven years, but that's only half of what the proposition did.

c'tair

handfleisch wrote:

c'tair wrote:

Ever had a visit to the DMV? Or any other bastion of bureaucracy like that? It's taxes that pay for those long lines and incompetence. What is more - you have no way to affect that institution. Sure, you can file a complaint, but that's just playing by that office's rules and you will hardly ever win.

If such entities were private, it would be a matter of voting with your money. If the DMV was a private store, would you ever shop their twice?

Just curious-- next to your username it says you are in Poland. Are you really in Poland? How often do you get to visit a DMV from Poland?

Oh, we get a lot of stuff done at the DMV. The DMV is actually much faster than our bureaucracy ridden system, so we snuck our way into yours. I have a brand new shiny NJ drivers license in only 8 hours of waiting instead of the usual month in Poland.

Nah just joking man, I've relocated to the US for now, hence why I used the DMV as an example.

handfleisch

c'tair wrote:

handfleisch wrote:

c'tair wrote:

Ever had a visit to the DMV? Or any other bastion of bureaucracy like that? It's taxes that pay for those long lines and incompetence. What is more - you have no way to affect that institution. Sure, you can file a complaint, but that's just playing by that office's rules and you will hardly ever win.

If such entities were private, it would be a matter of voting with your money. If the DMV was a private store, would you ever shop their twice?

Just curious-- next to your username it says you are in Poland. Are you really in Poland? How often do you get to visit a DMV from Poland?

Oh, we get a lot of stuff done at the DMV. The DMV is actually much faster than our bureaucracy ridden system, so we snuck our way into yours. I have a brand new shiny NJ drivers license in only 8 hours of waiting instead of the usual month in Poland.

Nah just joking man, I've relocated to the US for now, hence why I used the DMV as an example.

Actually, I knew a German who flew to the USA to get a drivers license because it was so easy here. In Germany there are many tests of all kinds. Here in California, you take an easy 20-question test, then an easy test drive, and you have a license.

And yes, the DMV isn't so bad considering the job it has to do.

ocalhoun

While raising taxes, particularly on the rich, who have been very deft at avoiding them usually, would be a great plan, particularly in the short term, I think a better overall solution is to reevaluate the role and scale of government.

That said... no. It won't happen.
The rich control this country, and they will not allow themselves to be taxed. It's as simple as that.

If you want to fix anything important in this country, step 1 is extreme campaign finance and lobbying reform. Until you get money out of politics, no meaningful progress will be made.