Lala has, “Leverage”

So, do you guys remember me saying that I felt like I was guest starring in my own ‘Pagan’ flavored episode of “LEVERAGE” earlier this week? If you’re just tuning in, the reference come’s from my ‘Where’s My Bat Signal‘ blog. I realize that a random person I don’t know has contacted me to take down another pagan I don’t know because they have a weird, twisted vendetta. Well, now it’s time to share that story.

I’ve decided to present the story in screen captures. For one, it’s proof that I’m not making this shit up as I go along, for two, I still can’t really believe that it even happened.

At this point, I’m staring blankly at the screen… Trying to figure out what’s going on. Before I get to the next Screen Shot, I have to say, ignore the red box. That was an editing error that I made and I didn’t realize it until I’d already saved it.

At this point in time… I’ll admit I’m curious. I decide to thank the person and start looking at the links, etc and see if I could figure out what was going on. The response after me showed up today.

Now, I guess I should take a moment to explain now, I’m not Wiccan. I’m not really even all that interested in Wicca, or it’s different traditions. When I have a question or questions about the path, I’ll look it up, or ask a friend. I know a handful of people who can speak with some authority on the subject. I pointed out the ‘Rain Dove’ that I wasn’t a wiccan. As you can see, I even asked her for some examples of what she was talking about.

I actually cropped that last one just right that you can see, Rain Dove has turned into a ‘Ball of Fury’, kinda like when my rats go a little nuts and start to spar with one another. All fluff, fur and furious motion.

What I really get a kick out of, is her statement that I’ve become ‘Chummy’ with the person she’s complaining about. See, she’s the one that pointed the page out to me. While I was waiting for her to tell me explicitly what she had an issue with, I joined/liked the page. First and foremost, to save it so I knew how to find it again, and also, to dig through it and see if I could find what she was talking about.

Also, here’s the thing. I wanted to stay neutral, and make my own decision on the whole mess. If people you don’t know message you, making wild claims about people you don’t know, you either ignore them, or go wander over and investigate. You might even be interested in hearing the other persons side of things.

But, I’m wandering off base. See, I liked the page, and was responded to, and suddenly…. Flashing alarm lights, bells and whistles… I’m Chummy, with the page owner. See…

I’m really starting to think that I was never supposed to look at the whole thing objectively. I was expected to come racing in here, and blog up a smear campaign pointed at the person that Rain Dove is complaining about. I was supposed to TAKE HER WORD FOR IT.

Which to me, is doubly funny when you think about it. Here she is, in MY Inbox raging about other people posting misinformation, and about how people need to do research, etc. (I’m paraphrasing and if she didn’t say those words, they were implied) and yet, I’m supposed to take her word, at face value, and call forth the hounds, create a virtual smear campaign, all because why? Wait for it…

She was trolling the page, to attract members to her own group, and slamming the page owners and admins. When members/fans of the page reacted, she decided she wanted vengeance.

13 Responses to Lala has, “Leverage”

That is not surprising. I used to be friends with her a while back until her craziness got to be too much for me. I was even in her little group for a while. This is typical RD. She really does have this idea that she is the only one who knows anything at all about Wicca. I find it kinda sad. The ironic thing in all of this is in the 2nd screen capture where she say, “…I know in time, the Gods reveal the truth about things…”
Yes, I believe the Gods have revealed the truth about her. Amazing!

I have had a few run ins with Rain Dove, was a part of her “coven” on facebook until I dared to challenge some rude rants she posted about people. She tormented me, bad mouthed me, and tried to turn people against me. I feel for you having ever been contacted by her. Glad you stood your ground and called her out. Blessed Be!

I have seen a lot of this going around lately and it saddens me. If one Pagan feels another is spreading misinformation, then it is their responsibility to speak with the “offender” and bring it to their attention. Many are not aware that they are spreading misinformation and as thus are not doing it intentionally.

Wicca has so many tradition-specific laws, rules, theories and paths that without knowing all there is to know about every Wiccan tradition, how would we know if there is any wrong information is being spread?

Regardless, I only feel sorry for people who do what RainDove did. They only harbor anger, confusion, and (possibly) hatred within their hearts which hinders personal growth.

Thank you for remaining neutral and logical throughout this ordeal, Mrs. Davis. (I would call you Lala, however my best friend’s nickname is Lala which is reserved for her Godchildren.)

I know there are a few out there who scream that taking money for any sort of spiritual work is pure evil and I’ve always felt that came from the superstitions of the past. She makes that her first point, that this woman is charging $12.00 for a three month beginner’s course. The horrors!

Let’s forget that if you go out and buy something like Big Blue or any other primer, you are paying the author and the publisher for your self-instruction. Let’s ignore the fact that people have been charging fees since well, for as long as I can remember and I go back to the old Pagan Way days at the Magickal Childe in NYC.

Let’s look at RD’s friend’s list. I am not a friend of RD, I don’t subscribe. But right off the bat, I was told we had a bunch of friends in common. Let’s look at some of these friends.

One runs a very popular pagan social media site. She openly admits to making money this way, she takes contributions and right now people are applying for open positions on the site, with an application fee. I don’t see RD making a big stink about this.

Next we have a famous pagan author. Who charges for her books. Who makes personal appearances.

Next we have a couple who have both been making their money from the pagan and occult community for years. He used to run an organization and she’s a reader.

Next I looked at her subscriptions. One of them is to someone who runs a certain school. I believe he’s now involved with some museum, too.

All these people are making money, some are offering classes that cost far more than $12 for 12 weeks, but she is singling out this woman. So I visited RD’s study group page.

Oh goody. A book that has pretty much been discredited by historians, while loved by those who want to hate Christianity for the sake of hating Christianity is what they’re studying. With a copyright date of 1995, which means it is still well within copyright, even if the author died the day after it was published. Which she didn’t. But she is leading people to some free book search. Which is open piracy.

Piracy aside, if I were to make a judgment call on this, my opinion would be she has some serious, serious issues with being raised Christian and she is out to get this woman simply because she is a Christo-Wiccan. There are lots of Christo-Wiccans and Christo-Pagans out there these days. Which is nothing new when you consider places like Ireland just added Jesus to the hierarchy of gods on the way to conversion.

If I were to venture a guess, it would be that RD is a misotheist, who hates the Christian god, so she is going as far in the other direction she can, without becoming a Satanist, because she’s still too superstitious for that. But, that’s just my opinion.

Lala, I wanted to relay our thanks for the way you handled this drama. My daughter (owner of wicca.com) read you blog posts and you are now known as the “nice” lady who helped restore peace to our facebook page. 🙂

For what it’s worth, we have been online for 15 years now and have hundreds of information pages online to help people learn about the Wiccan and Pagan traditions. For nearly a decade, we have published a free newsletter for those who are interested in the old ways (we have over 50,000 subscribers). There are popular Wiccan pages on Facebook that quote from our site without giving us credit, but we don’t really mind, as we feel it is more important to have the information get out there, than to worry about who gets credit for the work. So I guess it does concern me just a bit that when we finally decided to put together our own official guide, (the equivalent of an e-book), that this is being seen (by some) as a bad thing.

Just an update. RD seems to be making a serious effort to “take us down” and drive our guests away. Now she has people emailing us to tell us how shameful we are for creating our own ebook/course. Any suggestions on the best way to handle this, or should I just ignore these emails?

Collect them, get screen shots, report them if they get too violent or vehement. Anyone who wants to spout that you are doing something wrong by charging such a paltry sum is a dumbass, plain and simple.

Selling supplies, etc is roughly the same thing, and you aren’t charging an outrageous price, or making crazy promises. You’re doing nothing wrong. Let me tell you, the numbers will fluctuate, especially when you piss off someone as crazy as Rain Dove, but, by the same token, you’re going to get publicity and attract new people. That’s normal.

Best thing you can do, keep doing what you’re doing, and if someone challenges you on info, have a source. They’re challenging your ethic and morals on charging money, yet, if she was being true to her “WICCA” she’d remember, her own rule of three that she’s bound herself to. It will come back, as a self fulfilling prophecy.

The emails were not horrible … they were just trying to shame me. 😛 I did take your advice about describing it simply as 12 E-publications instead of a course. 🙂 Don’t know that it will make a difference to those who think it’s wrong to publish it at any price, but it’s a product we are proud to offer. 😀

I, too, have been on the receiving end of the fury that is Suzy. What heinous deed was my transgression? I had the audacity to state my opinion that a person could most certainly teach the basic concepts of Wicca in 90 days(even online)and at $12 a pop, they were obviously just trying to recover costs and not attempting to get rich.
For committing the cardinal sin of disagreeing with her lauded opinion I have been beleaguered, belittled, banned, and bashed.
One of the primary principles in MY version of Wicca is respect for the value of other people’s thoughts, beliefs, and opinions. I am unclear which discipline of Wicca that she follows in which that is not the case.

Oh My, the girl has gone stark raveing mad , however we kinda knew that . What Besty and Natasha say are true and very much more than that . I tried as much as i could to get the child who is like 51 years old to understand tolerance and behave in an adult manner . she has since cease to contact me with her hate mail. My Husband says she is a crusader and her current crusade with me happened to be when he and i got married she wanted me to hand fast in her tradition the one she made up JORDAINIAN not even an option .She needs to check her meds to make sure they have not soured on her (he was serious when my darling hubby said that and not in a bad way but a serious concern look )I know RD in real life and have for about 15 years she has always been on some such crusade against someone . So Know when i say this any one who disgrees with her about any thing is her new crusade . I am so sorry I could not help her in any way and she is still crusadeing but i did truley try. anyone who wishes to speak to me can join me on facebook Ravenwhitehorse