Stop limiting your information source to just those people whom you agree with. There are people out there who are raising concerns about people having "saviour babies" purely to provide a kidney, lung, bone marrow to another ailing child. Just asking a generic, is having a child primarily on the premise of using said child as spare parts morally acceptable?<br><br>From your response I'm assuming you haven't faced that thought yet, but there are people who are, and obviously some of them who are fairly vocal against it.<br><br>(and yes I have used verbiage that the people against it are using, since I've not heard the rabid supporters soap boxing for it yet)<br><br><br>- This is gonna get pretty interesting. <br>- Define "interesting". <br>- Oh, God, oh, God, we're all gonna die..

_________________________I used to think it was terrible that life was unfair. Then I thought what if life were fair and all of the terrible things that happen came because we really deserved them? Now I take comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe.

Would it be too much to ask you to spare me the lecture for a second and just answer the question? Who is suggesting such a thing? You know, if you think about it, that is a question I am asking, and I am asking someone I don't usually agree with...so that would give me information from a source... ah nevermind.<br><br>If the answer is some crazy nutjob that isn't associated with an organization capable of negotiation or discipline then what is the point of your initial argument anyway? ALL rational people would agree that babies shouldn't be "farmed" for such purposes. If they are renegade criminalistic individuals then we have no control over them anyway. Its like saying, "I don't think we should use nuclear technology to blow up babies". No [censored]. So, what, ban all use of anything to do with nuclear fission?<br><br>You can't put the genie back in the bottle, and you can't control the whole planet. The technology is already coming out, the only question is how we can use it for good, while attempting to prevent its misuse.<br><br>

In reply to:<br>Does anyone else wonder at the efficacy of breeding humans to be used as spare parts banks - effectively denying them of their rights to life and liberty?<br><br>Who on Earth is suggesting such a thing?<br><br>Maybe he's seen this movie a few too many times:<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>

<br>Well if it helps any...<br>check out the date of that mouse/ear article.<br><br>I follow a lot of scientific investigation, and I remember when that <br>medical break through was first made. It had absolutely nothing to <br>do with clones or hybrids.<br><br>The "ear" was grown on a teflon frame, using the patient's own cells <br>suspended in solution, then grafted to a hairless mouse (bred for that <br>purpose) so that the mouse could supply blood and oxygen to the <br>layer of cells as they multiplied.<br><br>At the time, the only outcry was from Animal Rights Activists, and as<br>in Pete's case, only AFTER having seen that rather shocking picture.<br><br><br><br>

_________________________."...or am I a butterfly dreaming she's a woman?"

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Stop limiting your information source to just those people whom you agree with.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Back atcha' <br>try doing your own investigation, rather than drooling on cue when someone rings a bell.<br><br><br>And to answer your concerns about MadCow Disease:<br>I think David can corroborate how it got into OUR food supply.<br><br>Yes, we know about turning herbivores into carnivores to recycle protein in order to<br>reap a bigger profit.... but do a bit of digging, and you'll come up with Lobbyists from<br>the Meat Packing Industry that contributed handsomely to the Republican Party to put<br>such practices back into use, even AFTER it was proven that it was the source of the<br>disease, and that it was indeed responsible for Crutchfield/Jacobs Disease in humans<br>when the prion crossed the bovine/human barrier.<br><br>

_________________________."...or am I a butterfly dreaming she's a woman?"

ok quick google here:<br>http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6195<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Ethical and humane<br>But while the ruling has given hope to such families, it has been attacked by pro-life and other opposition groups who say it turns babies into commodities. <br><br>"It's wrong to create a child simply as a means to an end, however good that end might be," says David King of the London-based lobby group, Human Genetics Alert. <br><br>But the authority is adamant that its ruling is practical, ethical and humane. "This treatment can benefit the whole family," said Suzi Leather, chair of the HFEA in a statement on Wednesday.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>So that would seem to support my contention that they are some groups worried about this practice. And as a corollerary - do you trust, government/big business not to see this as a market that can be exploited for financial gain?<br><br>- This is gonna get pretty interesting. <br>- Define "interesting". <br>- Oh, God, oh, God, we're all gonna die..<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Llewelyn on 02/03/06 05:33 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>

_________________________I used to think it was terrible that life was unfair. Then I thought what if life were fair and all of the terrible things that happen came because we really deserved them? Now I take comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>And to answer your concerns about MadCow Disease:<br>I think David can corroborate how it got into OUR food supply.<br><br>Yes, we know about turning herbivores into carnivores to recycle protein in order to<br>reap a bigger profit.... but do a bit of digging, and you'll come up with Lobbyists from<br>the Meat Packing Industry that contributed handsomely to the Republican Party to put<br>such practices back into use, even AFTER it was proven that it was the source of the<br>disease, and that it was indeed responsible for Crutchfield/Jacobs Disease in humans<br>when the prion crossed the bovine/human barrier.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>I left that intentionally non-conclusive since I am not a practicing scientist, and I am not aware that an absolute causal link has been established in this case. Personally I accept that it is highly likely that this postulation is true, I personally have not proof and I do not know of any scientist that has been feeding infected sheep to cattle or infected cattle to humans deliberately to prove the case!!<br><br>I understand in this case that there is no 100% either way, but I figure this guess is playing with the odds.<br><br><br>- This is gonna get pretty interesting. <br>- Define "interesting". <br>- Oh, God, oh, God, we're all gonna die..

_________________________I used to think it was terrible that life was unfair. Then I thought what if life were fair and all of the terrible things that happen came because we really deserved them? Now I take comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe.

Ok, I've seen this. If this is what you're referring to then I misinterpreted your post. Your post was a follow-up to that old ear article, so I was inclined to believe you meant actual babies which would be used for organs, and not balls of stem cells that have never even been in a womb (and end up in the trash all over this country without any outrage from anyone).<br><br>So, it looks like we were arguing about two different things. <br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>And as a corollerary - do you trust, government/big business not to see this as a market that can be exploited for financial gain?<p><hr></blockquote><p>What, this current government?? I wouldn't trust them to tie my shoes. But I think that is getting away from the point (at least mine). You said: "Whilst I accept there are many incredible advances in science, I also think that these advances are being pushed at the expense of our humanity."<br><br>Its not the technology thats bad, its how its used. I can think of some horrible things that could be done with a couple clamps and electricity. Damn you Edison! We should have killed you before you invented that abominable energy source!<br><br>

Not to mention the stuff that Madame Whiplash can do with a couple of clamps and some electricity!! <br><br>I thought the UK rules now allowed for parents to have the egg genetically manipulated so that a full term baby can be born into this world and used for bone marrow or kidney transplants - basically stuff we currently allow with living volunteer adults (you can opt to give a kindey to your sibbling should your genetic material be compatible).<br><br>I think the suggestion was that what if you get unscrupulous parents who have a baby to give a heart transplant to their ailing child - I'm really not sure that once people take having children who can donate organs and remain alive as acceptable how much longer before the suggestion of an organ farm birthing becomes accepted.<br><br>I think they're possibly using the "slippery slope" argument. As you say, once someone figures it out, there's nothing to stop them from doing it. But being able to do something doesn't make it moral.<br><br><br>- This is gonna get pretty interesting. <br>- Define "interesting". <br>- Oh, God, oh, God, we're all gonna die..

_________________________I used to think it was terrible that life was unfair. Then I thought what if life were fair and all of the terrible things that happen came because we really deserved them? Now I take comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe.

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