There's been lots of wedding bells tolling lately. You hear them in Asgard, Midgard and the underworld. Everything in heaven, under heaven and under the earth seems to be milling about;susserrations send rumors quietly up the tree and down the roots. Hey! What da fuck be goin down in da hizzie?

I don't think this is simply a matter of herd mentality. People tend to follow the course of 'everyone else is doing it' providing it's not something that's well...embarrassing. And some of it IS embarrassing. Everyone involved is trying to suss out what it all means, not just for them and their gods but what it means in comparison to the hybrid marriages of others as well. Is mine legitimate? Is hers or his legit? If the Marveltru's are legit does that strip mine and my kind of dignity?

Where are the lines drawn? Who's drawing them? Who's qualified to draw them? IS ANY OF IT RELEVANT or noteworthy?

The whole godspouse thing has been bugging me for months. As a matter of fact, the entirety of Heathenry has been bothering me for months. No one knows I'm a Heathen. That is to say, my son doesn't know, my ex husband doesn't know;none of the people I'm closet to know this about me. And why? Because I'm embarrassed. I'm scared to death that I will open my mouth and confess my faith and my family will laugh and say I've taken 'fangirling' too far, maybe I need to be checked in to the nearest mental health facility. The fact that I'm on disability for mental health problems isn't doing me any favors either. In fact, most of the other godspouses I've been meeting are disabled as well. What does that say about us? What does it say about the rest of the world? What does it say about Marveltru girls? I find it a curious phenonmenon that most of the Marvel Loki / HIddlestoners I know have one striking thing in common with all other HIddlestoner/Marvel Loki fans: fat and or conventionally unattractive young women who are lonely, enraged and marginalized and shoved aside in a society that wants nothing to do with them, except maybe to just be merciful to the beautiful and drop dead out of site where no one has to see your fatty bits. Whoops, do I sound bitter? You bet I am.

Does this mean that they aren't godspouses or even Heathens? Hell, I really don't know! But it's been bothering me, nagging at me relentlessly that somehow I'm doing these women and by extention, myself, a grave disservice. I keep getting a nudge that seems to be from Loki that says, "If you can't swallow your pride and be real about all of this, I'll have no choice but to embrace these other disenfranchised while leaving you all behind."

Loki seems to be telling me that my embarrassment-that our embarrassment-over the Marveltru community, is strictly mine/our fault. So, we're not embarrassed to accept him but we're ashamed to let the light shine on other women who's FORM of worship doesn't look the way we want to see it?

Am I getting hung up on form? Are all of us getting hung up on what amounts to nothing more than form?

Some of you may have noticed that I made some changes to the open letter to Marvel fans. I went back and reread it and realized how much of a deuche-bag I sounded like while trying to sound enlightened and open. I was basically telling them that they're welcome here but not free to be themselves and that they have to sit in the back of the bus. And I tried to pass it off as not wanting to be disrespectful to the actor who portrays Marvel Loki. Honestly, that's only a distant priority. My main priority for not wanting these girls to post HiddleLoki pics is that I find it-and them-embarrassing.

Isn't that MY problem?

Just as I want Lokeans in general to have a fun, safe haven where they're accepted, I want Marveltru girls to have the same thing whether I believe the way they do or not. But does that mean they belong here? Lets face it, equality is an idea that looks good on paper but it's not really practical all the time. I don't even think this is a question of equality. The only reason I think it might be is because this is a self proclaimed Heathen community. I don't know whether it makes them Heathens or not. That's not my job. And I've taken a rather disdainful attitude toward the exclusionist Heathens who shove Lokeans away. So, who am I to create a community safe for Lokeans to be Lokeans but then turn around and tell this other demographic that they're more or less not welcome for no other real reason than they're embarrasing? In all honesty, isn't that what it's about? What if Loki wants us to take them in? Not with the intent of pressuring them to assume OUR way but to enable them to unfold their own souls in the way that's most natural for them? What if we're supposed to let them in and let nature take its course?

Don't panic. This doesn't mean I'm going to change the rules so that we have a sudden flood of Marveltru's until this forum looks like a girls college dormitory. Maybe I just need to make another forum for them. That's sort of segregationist, but it's a step in the right direction? Maybe? I don't know. It's frustrating and I feel that Loki is frowning on that idea. He seems to think making a forum like that is worse than not letting them in here at all. It's drawing unnecessary attention to the difference.

What if Loki wants us to take them in? Not with the intent of pressuring them to assume OUR way but to enable them to unfold their own souls in the way that's most natural for them? What if we're supposed to let them in and let nature take its course?

I think, and this is just me, that this may be what He's after. Maybe if the Marveltru crowd sees that there's more to the Gods than just being fictional characters in films and comics, they'll be inspired to read more about how They really are. (Not that there's anything wrong at all with appreciating the fictional versions. Or finding certain actors incredibly attractive. *ahem*) But, yeah. Maybe we're supposed to inspire others to learn more and dig deeper to, like you said, find their own way and form their own unique relationships with the Gods.

Tyrienne already said something to this effect in one of her first posts here so I'm sort of rehashing a bit. I really sort of needed to air this out because it's been bothering me so much.

And yeah, I appreciate the crap out of the fictitious characters as far as that goes [and as far as that goes is the movies are tremendous fun, the characters are tremendous fun and yes, I'll say it, Marvel Loki is f'ckin' hot, and so is the fluffy, adorable oafish Marvel Thor.] but I keep my fandom and worship separate. Neither fictitious character resembles the lore version by any stretch of the imagination. As a matter of fact, the only time Thor resembles lore Thor is at the very beginning of the first movie where he displays himself to have an extremely hot temper. Hell, most people agree that Marvel Odin is an asshat but he's soft compared to lore Odin. Lore Odin is...fucking scary, creepy and sadistic. Which I happen to love him in spite of and a little bit because that's how he is. It's complicated. >.>

But, my family might not believe my sincerity and I'm too sensitive to ward off their heckling. That, and my ex would take issue with the Heathenry because if you're not worshiping the Christian god then you're worshiping demons. I have no one but myself to blame, really. He was a fairly open-minded agnostic when I met him. I was one of those Christians who hounded and harangued him until he became Christian. Ironically, shortly after that happened, I walked away from my religion, lol. Well..they shunned me but I gave up all non-essential Christian beliefs several years ago.

As far as my current worship goes, my Christianity expresses itself as "Love Your Neighbor As Yourself."That's the sum of true Christianity, really. At least in my opinion. It seems to work out all right for me. And Jesus really doesn't give two shits that I include Loki and Odin into my life. He's a fuckin chill dude, that Jesus! He's the peaced out hippie of the gods.

This is an interesting post.When I first told family and friends I was Lokean, there was a huge amount of confusion. Partly my fault perhaps, because I happen to also be a Marvel and Tom Hiddleston fan. To me the two are very separate things. On the one hand, I am a fangirl (Marvel and Tom), but on the other I am Lokean (worship of Loki the Norse god). To me the line is clear and I can enjoy both, but to other people, they thought my announcement meant I was worshipping TWH! It took a while to try to explain it to people, and a few (I would include my mother and sister) still don't really get the difference.I already knew of Loki the god before I ever came across the Marvel films, and while they did reignite my interest in the Norse myths, I did not become Lokean because of the films but because of the eddas and the lore. For those who did come to Loki solely from the films, I don't see anything wrong with that if it was a gateway to them discovering the Loki of lore.

njm wrote:This is an interesting post.When I first told family and friends I was Lokean, there was a huge amount of confusion. Partly my fault perhaps, because I happen to also be a Marvel and Tom Hiddleston fan. To me the two are very separate things. On the one hand, I am a fangirl (Marvel and Tom), but on the other I am Lokean (worship of Loki the Norse god). To me the line is clear and I can enjoy both, but to other people, they thought my announcement meant I was worshipping TWH! It took a while to try to explain it to people, and a few (I would include my mother and sister) still don't really get the difference.I already knew of Loki the god before I ever came across the Marvel films, and while they did reignite my interest in the Norse myths, I did not become Lokean because of the films but because of the eddas and the lore. For those who did come to Loki solely from the films, I don't see anything wrong with that if it was a gateway to them discovering the Loki of lore.

That's almost exactly my circumstances, except I didn't bother telling my family. I simply don't need the ridicule. The movies ignited an interest to read the lore but it wasn't until I read the lore that I felt drawn to Heathenism. My fandom and faith are apples and oranges. What feel like a douche about is that I said Marveltru ppl are welcome but they can't post Hiddloki pics here unless it's a non explicit profile pic. I also implied that they aren't free to discuss Marveloki as the form of worship they choose. Now I feel like an elitest douchebag. I'm treating them with the same nonacceptance as the natiinal association Heathens treat Lokeans: with disdain. And we're an embarrassment to them and they just wish we'd kindly drop off the face of the earth.

Yeah. When I told my husband that Loki was here and I could feel Him, he looked at me like I'd lost my damn mind. Needless to say, I don't share anything like that anymore. But he does know that I honor the Gods. That's the extent of it.

I would describe my husband as indulgent but bemused. I tend to try to light candles and talk to Loki when he's otherwise occupied - at work, out walking etc. as I feel more relaxed and able to say what I want to say then. When I first started this little daily ritual of candles for Loki he would refer to it as 'saying my little prayers'. Eventually I told him I found that rather patronizing, and he has since stopped. Mostly he just leaves me be, though I know he finds it odd.

My mom knows that I follow/honor Loki and that I have an altar for him, but I haven't told her that I can feel him too, and especially not that I can communicate with him (and Sigyn as well, although I haven't told her about Sigyn yet). She seems to be cool with my beliefs but I don't know if she'd draw the line at Deities Actually Communicating Back.

My relationship with Odin (before I knew it was Odin) cost me my marriage. From other accounts I've read, other Odin godspouses have lost their human relationships/marriages. Two that I've read so far. I haven't read of any Loki godspouses losing their human mates.

Christine I won't go to xxx stuff how this happened, I am not at liberty to say! It was done for me with more than divine help where one marriage begun the other ended. How long it will take until the rest crumbles down I dunno. I have daughter and I won't let her pay the price. For now I cook a lot.

Moon Rouge wrote:When I tried to explain the difference between Marvel fandom, god Loki, and where my loyalty lays my DH had only one comment: This is worse than I thought!

Sorry, I don't know what DH stands for. Could you explain?

I'm not a hundred percent sure Odin is directly responsible for what was going on at the time. This would have been right near the beginning of his presence in my life;just before I began to get an inkling there was something floating around but right about the time when I noticed my presence sort of creeped some people out at their subconscious level.

DH commonly stands for dear husband (the mortal one). I cannot use the word husband for both, trying to avoid it. Michal took it bravely, as he puts up with a lot of my stuff, and I do with his, we were very alike. The physical contact in my mortal marriage ended abruptly after my wedding to Loki (this tiny detail my DH doesn't know) and I had no say in it.

I must admit that I have problems with pop culture Paganism, especially with people worshipping Marvel-Loki, but that is because I am a Lokean, and also because there are so many pop culture Pagans who worship Marvel-Loki, compared to other pop culture representations of other gods.

There is a belief that if enough people worship a fictional character, their combined energies will create an egregore, a thought-form. This means that if they call on Marvel-Loki, they might get an egregore and not the true Loki.

I believe that the gods have a lower and a higher aspect. In the lower aspect They are subjective and personal and don't have access to all of Their knowledge and powers. In the higher aspect, They are objective and impersonal and have access to all of Their knowledge and power. In the higher aspect They can look at us and see the whole of our wyrd (fate) and orlog (destiny), and They can make objective choices for us, so that we may grow both personally and spiritually.

An egregore, I believe, doesn't have a higher aspect, and it may make choices that can be bad for it's worshippers.I think marriage to an egregore would be a bad idea. You'd have to have an overview of the Marvel-Loki fandom to see how Marvel-Loki is generally perceived, to have any idea what kind of being you're marrying.

When it comes to Marvel/Hiddlestone fangirls/-boys, I think it would be a good idea to have a subforum for them under General, called, say, For Marvel Fans.

When I became a Lokean, I told my mum and my close friends. They think I'm weird. My mum is a Christian, and she has problems wrapping her head around the idea of other gods being just as real as her god. I've only told a couple of friends that I'm married to Loki. They find it difficult to understand.

I prefer to call myself an Old Norse Faith Pagan, or a Forn Sed Pagan, because I'm not a reconstructionist and I only worship Loki, so I don't feel like a Heathen.

Poppy.Meister wrote:My relationship with Odin (before I knew it was Odin) cost me my marriage. From other accounts I've read, other Odin godspouses have lost their human relationships/marriages. Two that I've read so far. I haven't read of any Loki godspouses losing their human mates.

I have read about a handful of Loki-spouses who got out of bad or abusive marriages because of Loki.

Darkamber wrote:I believe that the gods have a lower and a higher aspect. In the lower aspect They are subjective and personal and don't have access to all of Their knowledge and powers. In the higher aspect, They are objective and impersonal and have access to all of Their knowledge and power. In the higher aspect They can look at us and see the whole of our wyrd (fate) and orlog (destiny), and They can make objective choices for us, so that we may grow both personally and spiritually.

First time I came across this was in someone's comment regarding to a speech Raven Kaldera held a Pagan forum. It is a while, I forgot the place and names.I had hard time to embrace the idea, as to my mind popped the image of carrots hanging from the ceiling of a cave. Kaldera used the image of a stalactite cave where the lower aspect of the god was the tip of the stalactite. He said lower form of a god is imperfect and can make a mistake. The wide root attached to the ceiling where a god join the other gods is the higher aspect of a god and unmistakable superior being. I'm a little choking on that idea at this moment.

I was not touched by Marvel because I go to movies every week and there were made other great and better movies than Marvel did. It was fun and time well spent but not only one type what was and is out there. Most importantly Marvel Loki, and I liked how he was played, was never image of god Loki for me. I was also involved in my hobby about the dolls and lucky to be one of 49 people from all over the world in join venture resulting the creation of 7 unique dolls and book published by end 2013, so Marvel couldn't get me. Much later I found out Loki was already reaching out. Not through Marvel, through my hobby, He told me. I was deaf and blind those years.

This is the first time I hear about egregore. It is a bit terrifying.

On other hand I find annoying, insulting, and highly unfair when everyone who worships Loki also has to explain every single time that it is god Loki and not the movie icon. We give credits to UPGs, dreams and all kinds of believes but when it comes to Loki Lokeans themselves look at a newcomer through magnifying glass. What if he/she is coming via Marvel train.

I think my main concern surrounding HiddleLoki has to do with the actor who portrays him. All this fan-based Loki worship. How might it affect the actor? All this intent focused upon a character portrayed by him, when the fans/worshippers involved attach it to Hiddlestons form via photoshopped Lokis' and whatnot, and especially the ones out there who entertain the idea that Hiddleston himself is, or could be, a human incarnation of Loki. With so many minds having thoughts bent toward you, how could it not affect a person? That's what I mean when I said people can't post sexy hiddlepics here. It's disrespectful-and maybe harmful-on many levels. All that lust aimed toward the Hiddle. I shudder to think!

Stardom has ruined people -- actors, rock stars, etc. -- but from what I've read about him, he seems like a nice person. Great fame, instant wealth, being seen as a sex symbol, some people can't handle it. I'll just have to hope he can.

Moon Rouge wrote:DH commonly stands for dear husband (the mortal one). I cannot use the word husband for both, trying to avoid it. Michal took it bravely, as he puts up with a lot of my stuff, and I do with his, we were very alike. The physical contact in my mortal marriage ended abruptly after my wedding to Loki (this tiny detail my DH doesn't know) and I had no say in it.

Physical contact with my mortal husband ended as well. Not abruptly but over time and not for the reasons I assumed. At the time I was barely barely conscious of Odin. Me and the ex had marital and sexual problems to begin with so I just automatically assumed it was that. Eventually he wouldn't even share the same bed with me. Years later, he confessed something to me: that he was repeatedly attacked by some entity during hypnogogic sleep. He said it was terrifying and strange. To be laying in bed, paralyzed and your physical body face up but feeling your subtle body flipped over with its head shoved repeatedly into the pillow while something was yelling and screaming at it. All just because I moved in my sleep and my foot touched his. He said it was always accidental touch in bed that precipitated an attack or else he might find himself attacked in the dream/astral after 'daring' to have sex with me.

I haven't come out and asked Odin if he's the one who did this, but I did absently ponder it in my own mind, to which he answered-too quickly, I might add-no he didn't. And no, he didn't know who did it. I sense both truth AND lie in this answer. But I'm holding off formally asking until I feel the time is right.

Looking back I can see where he's been responsible for seriously irritating my ex husband. I could always tell at those times that he 'came forward' in my mind just to fuck with my ex's head and provoke him. He doesn't dislike my ex strongly but he thinks he's an ass and a paranoiac and he seems to take perverse pleasure in playing cat and mouse with him. He proudly owned up to this bit of mischief.

~*~*~

And Oh My Gods! A Mavel Loki egregore? I always thought of egregores as Watchers since it's derived from Grigori, a class of angels, the Watchers. Or perhaps Grigori is derived from the term egregore. Either way, an egregore is something like what Alcoholics Anonymous would call a Group Conscience. Or Group Conscious. The way I see it, any Marvel Loki egregore that comes into the world is likely to behave like an object because he's objectified. The metaphysicist in me is more curious than concerned. Perhaps I lack the right amount of moral conscience.

Christine, I have an itch to say in one line exactly what happened, but I promised not to, or at least not yet. Abruptly means something happened, Loki did it and He told me. As far as I know Loki has been treating my mortal husband OK, helped him with the job once. My DH works in afternoon, we always went to bed late. The changes are that now he comes to bed about the time I get up and sometimes not at all. He stays downstairs and sleeps in sofa.

About the Hiddlmania, shouldn't it wear off somehow? I don't see much news or anything not even from Marvel. Maybe it is issue only on Tumblr?