The Deleted Forum Post Part 2

“Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep Of MY Pasture!” Declares The LORD… Jeremiah 23:1.

Remembering always, before GOD man cannot possibly justify himself, but it is GOD Alone WHO Is Just, and The Justifier Of the one who has faith in JESUS ( Romans 3:21-27 ). This means to GOD’S Standard of what means faith in JESUS. This passage of Scripture, Jeremiah 23, is a warning to be heeded by every soul of man who will stand before others as a Pastor ( and indeed anything ) of GOD’S Church.

What is Stated By GOD here in Jeremiah 23:1 is, “Woe to the shepherds ( pastors ) who cause The flock to wander away, who lose oneself; to fail.”

To you Bob, it would appear that you have become blind, short-sighted. To you and to all who will read here, toward your Sanctification; toward Cleansing from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting Holiness in the fear of GOD:

The fact you state you give your full approval to preaching and teaching according to man ( here ICR ) rather than according to The Will Of GOD, that you encourage others not only to do the same but also to post these things, despite all The Word Of GOD States and has here been made abundantly clear, it truly means nothing before GOD in matters Pertaining to GOD and to your Salvation, in respect of benefit to the acquiring of Salvation. Rather, obey GOD and Live.

You cannot hear because you are refusing to hear. You have determined to state you agree in part, that is, with the preaching of The Gospel, but fail to recognize the fullness of what means to be a partaker of The Grace Of GOD and to be truly defending The Gospel. In this you contend with The MOST HIGH, not a man. I am nothing, a nobody. Just as with all men I am what I am By Grace through The faith, yet I claim for myself no title. Just as with all we are fit only for burning, because of and through disobedience to The Word;

Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. And everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then to receive a perishable wreath, but we an Imperishable. Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; but I buffet my body and make it my slave, lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified. For I do not want you to be unaware, Brethren, that our fathers were all under The Cloud, and all passed through the sea; and all received baptism into Moses in The Cloud and in the sea; and all ate the same Spiritual Food; and all drank the same Spiritual Drink, for they were drinking from A Spiritual Rock Which Followed them; and The Rock Was CHRIST. Nevertheless, with most of them GOD was not Well-Pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness. Now these things happened as examples for us, that we should not crave evil things, as they also craved. 1 Corinthians 9:24 – 10:6.

Despite what The Word Of GOD States here throughout this forum post, you yourself have not spoken from The Word but from yourself. I wrote to you and asked you to show in the matter what you believe from The Word ( as we all must do, no exceptions ), so as to discern Truth from error, and you have not. Scripture States that the one who speaks from himself is seeking his own glory and not The Glory Of GOD! ( John 7:16-18 ). Even though he himself may believe and claim that he is.

If any one of us as a professing Christian believes and lives whatever it is we will believe and live, then we must bring it to The Light Of GOD’S Word, that it may be shown for what it is; whether Of GOD or not Of GOD. For ours is to be no different to that Of JESUS CHRIST; our teaching is not to be ours as in from ourselves, but is to be the very same as The FATHER’S WHO Sent HIS Only Begotten SON into the world With HIS Gospel. This is to be ours.

“For everyone who does evil hates The Light, and does not come to The Light, lest his deeds should be Exposed. “But he who practices The Truth comes to The Light, that his deeds may be Manifested as having been Wrought In GOD.” John 3:20-21.

The one who abides to do, the one who purposes GOD’S Truth will not avoid coming to The Light, that all his doings may be rendered apparent as having been Produced By GOD.

By our words we shall be Justified, and by our words we shall be condemned;

“Either make the tree good, and its fruit good; or make the tree bad, and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. “You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is Good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. “The good man ( and there is none Good but GOD Alone; Luke 18:19 ) out of good treasure brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of evil treasure brings forth what is evil. “And I Say To you, that every careless word that men shall speak, they shall render account for it on The Day Of Judgement ( Ecclesiastes 8:11, 2 Peter 3:9 ). “For by your words you shall be Justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.” Matthew 12:33-37.

Let GOD be found True though every is man a liar! “That thou mightest be Justified in thy words, And mightest prevail when thou art Judged.” ( Romans 3:4, Psalm 51 ).

Now of this devotion to the preaching of ICR, men of whom you yourself say are ‘ Some powerful, SPIRIT filled men of GOD.’ And with what we are instructed by men Of GOD who were indeed Appointed By GOD, and who wrote In The SPIRIT:

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are From GOD; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know The SPIRIT Of GOD: every spirit that confesses ( the Greek; homologeo; to speak the same thing ) that JESUS CHRIST Has Come In The Flesh Is From GOD; and every spirit that does not confess ( that does not speak the same thing as ) JESUS is not From GOD; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that is coming, and now it is already in the world… 1 John 4:1-3.

This is the statement by ICR as to their means and ends: ‘For over four decades, the Institute for Creation Research has equipped believers with evidence of the Bible’s accuracy and authority through scientific research, educational programs, and media presentations, all conducted within a thoroughly biblical framework.’

Now, from the Word Of GOD will be shown in each statement here of ICR the error in this belief, even, the arrogance of this belief of theirs and the very same error of any who will give them their hearty approval in that they believe they are doing matters Pertaining to GOD ‘a service.’

Thus Says The LORD, your REDEEMER, The HOLY ONE Of Israel; “I AM The LORD your GOD, WHO Teaches you to profit, WHO Leads you in The Way you should go…” Isaiah 48:17.

‘For over four decades’

LORD, THOU Hast Been our Place of Refuge In all generations. Before the mountains were born, Or THOU Didst Give Birth To the earth and the world, Even From Everlasting To Everlasting, THOU Art GOD. THOU Dost Turn man back into dust, And Dost Say, “Return, O children of men.” For a thousand years In THY Sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or a watch in the night. Psalm 90:1-4.

‘the Institute for Creation Research has equipped believers’

…And as soon as HE was alone, HIS followers, along with the twelve, asking HIM about the parables. And HE was Saying To them, ”To you Has Been Given The Mystery Of The Kingdom Of GOD; but those who are outside get everything in parables, in order that while seeing, they may see and not perceive; and while hearing, they may hear and not understand lest they return and be Forgiven.”… Mark 4:10-12

…; but you shall Receive Power when The HOLY SPIRIT Has Come Upon you; and you shall be MY witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.” Acts 1:8

For this reason also, since the day we heard, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be Filled with The Knowledge Of HIS Will in all Spiritual Wisdom And Understanding, so that you may walk in a manner worthy of The LORD, to please in all respects, bearing Fruit in every good work and increasing in The Knowledge Of GOD; Strengthened With All Power, According To HIS Glorious Might, for the Attaining of all steadfastness and patience; joyously giving thanks to The FATHER, WHO Has Qualified us to share in The Inheritance of the Saints In Light. For HE Delivered us From the domain of darkness, And Transferred us To The Kingdom Of HIS Beloved SON, In WHOM we have Redemption, the Forgiveness of sins… Colossians 1:9-14

‘with evidence of the Bible’s accuracy and authority through scientific research,’

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it men of old gained Approval. By faith we understand that the worlds were Prepared By The WORD Of GOD, so that what is seen was not Made out of things which are visible. Hebrews 11:1-3

‘educational programs, and media presentations,’

…For To us GOD Revealed Through The SPIRIT; for The SPIRIT Searches All Things, even The Depths Of GOD. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so The Thoughts Of GOD no one knows except The SPIRIT Of GOD. Now we have Received, not the spirit of the world, but The SPIRIT WHO Is From GOD, that we might know The Things Freely Given To us By GOD, Which Things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in Those Taught By The SPIRIT, Combining Spiritual With Spiritual. But a natural man does not accept The Things Of The SPIRIT Of GOD; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because They Are Spiritually Appraised… 1 Corinthians 2:10-14

‘all conducted within a thoroughly biblical framework.’

…But know this first of all, that no Prophecy Of Scripture is of one’s own interpretation, for no Prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men Moved By The HOLY SPIRIT Spoke From GOD. But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies ( the Greek, hairesis; choosing self-willed opinions which is substituted for submission to The Power Of GOD’S Truth, leading to division; dissensions; 1 Corinthians 11:18-19 ), even denying The MASTER WHO Bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. And many will follow their sensuality ( the Greek, apoleia; pernicious ways; Eternal ruin ), and because of them The Way Of The Truth will be maligned; and in greed they will exploit you with false words; their Judgement from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep… 2 Peter 1:20 – 2:3

Every statement conflicting with The Word Of GOD.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are From GOD; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know The SPIRIT Of GOD: every spirit that confesses that JESUS CHRIST Has Come In The Flesh Is From GOD; and every spirit that does not confessJESUS is not From GOD; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that is coming, and now it is already in the world… 1 John 4:1-3.

The Scripture Written in 2 Peter 1:1-11 I have seen today posted by Steph on notes on another group, to which also I have seen stated of it afterwards, “Beautiful”. Peter wrote listing in verses 5-7 qualities which cannot, apart from a complete faith in GOD Alone, be acquired in order to acquire the proceeding quality herein spoken, amounting to Love: the fulfilment of The Law. …But if you are Led By The SPIRIT, you are not under The Law… Galatians 5:18.

Verses 5-6 of 2 Peter 1 states, …Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in moral excellence, Knowledge; and in Knowledge, self-control, and in self-control, perseverance, and in perseverance, godliness;…

Of these qualities Peter, In The SPIRIT, states, For if these are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in The True Knowledge Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST. For he who lacks these is blind short-sighted, having forgotten Purification from his former sins. Therefore, Brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about HIS Calling And Choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; for in this way The Entrance Into The Eternal Kingdom Of our LORD And SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST Will Be Abundantly Supplied To you. V 8-11. Sanctification Through The SPIRIT And faith in The Truth. Not man; not ICR.

“Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep Of MY Pasture!” Declares The LORD… Jeremiah 23.

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Post #8, was posted by another in the group. He had cut and pasted another forum post he had already posted within the forum of the group, in reply to what I had just here posted. This was by a Dr. Johnson an Associate Professor of Apologetics at the Institute for Creation Research. To this was added at the bottom, ‘Cite this article: Johnson, J. 2010. Understanding Effective Biblical Apologetics. Acts & Facts.’

This can be seen at the group Elijah’s Prayer, though now, since those who began to post their comments and views to the post, ‘Titus 1:15-16 And A Deleted Forum Post’, then made the group a closed group, membership to it is required to see what it is they will state.

To this he posted this message attached to the bottom of it;

Dear Paul as a brother in Christ there's a big difference between preaching the gospel and defending the bible!of course we preach the gospel but when attacked we defend the bible which is called apologetics!please refer to the above!your opinion is greatly wanted but you're lacking knowledge here brother between the 2 differences here!when a atheist attacks you defend(apologetics)please understand we sit at odds with your point of view!some are called to preach and some are called to defend!which that's what I do!

This posted so soon before it is possible to have read, examing everything carefully, the 2,354 words just posted here?

I will read what you have put here, and The LORD Willing in due time shall post a reply, from The GOD Breathed Word. But it is clear from the note to me which you have placed at the bottom of this re-post thus far you cannot hear.

It is impossible for some to be called to preach while some are called only to defend. Both the preaching and the defending are one and the same. Please meditate on this; How can one preach without defending or defend without preaching The Gospel Of JESUS CHRIST?

You have mixed up the meanings of the 2 here!does your preacher at church preach to you or is he defending the gospel!i know for a fact preachers preach and they don't defend to believers at all!its not at all impossible to preach and then defend in the same conversation with people!i myself have done the this very much!you can't preach without a listener but you can defend when you faith is attacked!i will put you in a room full of people of evolutionary people and when creation is attacked you defend not preach!Christ on the cross especially outside the bible you defend that He was crucified not preacher to them and then you need evidence also which you will need to defend!you are quick to say your right without experience in defense!of course we preach all the time but when your faith is attacked you defend as we all do Paul!

This was then posted by the same one again, minutes after his previous post; post #12

2. What is Apologetics?

Defining Apologetics

‘Apologetics may be simply defined as the defense of the Christian faith. The simplicity of this definition, however, masks the complexity of the problem of defining apologetics. It turns out that a diversity of approaches has been taken to defining the meaning, scope, and purpose of apologetics…’

This posting then continued containing some 3,087 words. Again, if any wish to read this then they may contact those who take charge within the group Elijah’s Prayer.

"He Is Before all things, and In Him all things hold together." Colossians 1:17

Reading the above forum makes my heart sad. In my own situation no amount of apologetics makes a difference, it is said to me they are from a biased opinion. Christ Is my Only Defence and I've nowhere else to turn but to His Word and His Precious Gospel.

"Your adornment must not be merely external - braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God." 1 Peter 3:3-4

My life is under constant scrutiny 24/7. It is a spiritual battle and I always need to remember Grace. "A new Commandment I Give to you, that you love one another, even as I Have Loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” John 13:34-35 The witness. The Greatest is love. Our Lord's Love reaching out and touching hearts through ours to others. God So Loved the world He Sent His Only Begotten Son and our work is to believe In Him. The Gospel is The Power Of God unto Salvation. Christ In me both defends and preaches The Gospel. He Is my Only Boast. It is a matter of the heart. I pray this might help. I'm not very good at sharing. Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. Blessed Is God's Heart when others see Him In us...

I woke this morning and as soon as I did I heard 1 Corinthians 9:22, I have become all things to all men, that I may by all means save some.

As I seem to be the only one here, along with our Sister Steph, who is speaking out in this way here on this forum and into this matter, being totally dependent on The Word Of GOD, yet others pour forth their argument like a river by reason of what man himself has made from the word apologetics, of course it gives opportunity for doubt, even opportunity for the enemy. It is not on account of the evidence for the case here put forward for apologetics.

I am still young in The LORD, and my walk is often a lonely one. I am learning as we all are and have made more mistakes than I can remember. I thank GOD for HIS Grace, Mercy and Perfect Patience. And I need to constantly remind myself when doubt begins to creep in, my faith is in The LORD my GOD and in HIS Word I trust. With all that I am I do, nevertheless I am just a man and am in a spiritual battle which rages all around. It teaches me, day by day, week by week, month by month, of my total dependency on my GOD.

Some years ago The LORD Told me to pray for my ambiguity, my doubtfulness or uncertainty. I assure you I am not lying. And to my own detriment I must confess it is a prayer I have forgotten to pray and ask. Please Forgive me LORD, i am a wretched man.

My first thought on hearing, I have become all things to all men, that I may by all means save some,when I woke this morning was, LORD, have I got it wrong?

I opened my Bible, and again opened at Jeremiah 23. I opened at this Scripture yesterday, twice, and a Christian I know also opened their Bible at Jeremiah 23, three times yesterday. I assure any who read this I am not lying.

GOD Has done this with me before in situations and the Scripture I have opened to has spoken into a particular situation, and has guided me, and I have seen GOD’S Will according to Scripture Prevail in situations.

I then turned to and read 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.

This is what I believe I was aware of:

The Apostle Paul writes of being under The Law Of CHRIST, not being without this. Yes, whatever is contained in Scripture Is The GOD Breathed Word, and there are most certainly scientific facts throughout Scripture. But it is not to be occupied or concerned with science, scientific experts and scientific whatever; but The Gospel Of JESUS CHRIST.

The Pharisees had fence laws around GOD’S Law, and in their thinking it was a safeguard to the people so as not to break GOD’S Law. But in it they forgot GOD, and pressed onto the people their own rules rather than what GOD Had Spoken Through Moses and the Prophets.

We are doing the same, and here it is called apologetics. It may be with best intentions, but if we forsake GOD’S Way in substituting GOD’S Way for other ways it is inevitable GOD is forgotten in it all.

I have heard professing Christians speaking facts in the hope of persuading unbelievers, but have not seen JESUS CHRIST in them and have not heard The Gospel first and foremost. In some cases I am sure it is because they do not fully understand The Gospel themselves.

For I am not ashamed of The Gospel, for It Is The Power Of GOD For Salvation To everyone who believes, To the Jew first and also To the Greek. For in It The Righteousness Of GOD Is Revealed from faith to faith; as It Is Written, “But the Righteous shall live by faith.” Romans 1:16-17.

Please let us Pray against division. Paul, this is not about you and sister Steph against the rest of Elijah's Prayer. This forum is about defending God's Truth and if it is legitimate to use telescops to do so. That is apologetics.

At this point my position is that God gave us many tools to defend His word. The koran says that the sun goes down in a mud puddle. Refuting that with science is defending God's Word and showing that particular "holy book" is in error.

I will post later, "A Spiritual Sandwich" based on Psalm 19:1----->

The heavens declare the glory of God;

And the firmament shows His handiwork

I cannot believe God would not have us use telescopes to examine His beautiful creation in more depth. What we find when we do so is to His Glory and that is in fact apologetical because it defends {apologia-gr} what God says about His creation of the stars.....that they are without number Jeremiah 33:22

Let us continue this discussion praying against division. ~~God Bless all~~ I Love you all~~~bob