StopLurkListen:Are you joking? Have you missed the ENTIRE 2012 primary and general election? Israel never came up, huh?

Yes, Romney pandered to them and Obama did not, I guess that's your point? Despite his campaign rhetoric, Obama's administration played up the "OMFG IRAN" card during his first term, and is doing it now. I hope you're not surprised that Obama's actions in-term did not quite measure up to his campaign rhetoric...

Pribar:Bondith: Is this one of those times where the press screwed up somewhere along the line and "fleet" actually means "flotilla" or "squadron" or something? Like how every warship is a battleship and every Army unit and formation is a Division. I'm prepared as anyone to assume the Iranians are self-aggrandising, but the media are always due a good pillorying.

/"Bob served with A Division of the 1st Division of the 4th Division of the 101st Airborne Division. They were assigned to the XVIII Division under Third Division."

Nope in every press release the Iranians have described it as a fleet, these are the same 2 ships that went through the Suez canal a while back and visited Syria before the revolution started, theory is that these are the only 2 seaworthy ships the Iranians have since they are the only ones that venture more than a hour or so sailing distance from a port.

Yeah, I didn't look too closely at the artice and missed the .ir in the title bar and the Farsi characters on the page itself.

Arkanaut:Well to be fair, American "destroyers" were basically just a size up from frigates until what, the 1970's or so?

Not quite, until 1975 the US navy Counted what we would now label as destroyers as frigates, and what we now call frigates as destroyer escorts, after 1975 they standardized with the rest of the world navies classification system.

/though the newer Burke class destroyers are actually larger than our first battleships were, and in any other navy would be classified as a cruiser....

Infernalist:But we, as a nation, seem to NEED an enemy. Now, the boogyman of "Chinese Cyber Attacks" is the trendy new enemy.

This idea of "we NEED an enemy" is a dangerous illusion. It may well be that certain perceived external threats are exaggerated in importance, but this is not at all the same thing as supposing that the US has no real antagonists whatsoever and is imagining them all out of thin air. In the case of "Chinese cyber attacks", this is not a "boogyman" [sic] at all but a well- documented phenomenon -- you'd have to harbour a great deal of mindless anti-American prejudice to suppose that the Chinese are somehow morally above technological espionage.

Yall should go watch 'Canadian Bacon'. It's illuminating.

"Canadian Bacon" is a movie: that's all. If you want to learn about the world, put down the remote and pick up some books.

jso2897:When I find myself in a bar, and some little twerp 1/3 my size is aggressively baiting me into kicking his ass, and neither the barkeeper or any of the patrons present seem to find this behavior objectionable, I leave - and take my self and my money and my business elsewhere.Your mileage may vary.

I'm 47 years old and have never run across that situation, despite being in many bars.

Seriously, thought, since World War II, the only navies that have been able to engage in blue water combat with each other and survive have been the Russians and the Americans.

My understanding is that the Japanese have built themselves a very nice fleet since the end of WWII -- I think they're one of the few countries that the US sells the Aegis system to. The British and French can probably come close -- the French still have at least one carrier, and the UK has its VTOL carriers. (Plus, as NATO nations they're probably going to have US support in some fashion, e.g. air cover and command/control/communications.)

The Repeated Meme:Maybe I should be telling some of you to get off my lawn, but I remember a time going toe to toe with the the Russkies, a country with an ACTUAL ability to destroy America, and everyone being quite manly about it.

Now, it's all "OMG teh Iranians are going to get us all!ELEVENTY!!11!!!!"

Any Farkers able to accurately pinpoint the year America became a nation of girly men?

PribarThe Sabalan (the "destroyer: in TFA) was crippled in the same engagement, but since it was burning and immobile, the Admiral decided not to finish her off.

During the Iran-Iraq War, the warship became infamous for attacks against the crews of unarmed and often neutral tankers and other merchant ships. Before these attacks, the Sabalan's captain would often board the ships and pretend to carry out a friendly inspection, sometimes even dining with the ship's master. Then he would open fire on the ship, sometimes aiming at the ship's bridge and living spaces. Often, the captain would radio his victims "Have a nice day" as the Sabalan departed. These actions earned the captain the nickname "Captain Nasty".[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_frigate_Sabalan

The Repeated Meme:Any Farkers able to accurately pinpoint the year America became a nation of girly men?

I'd say we started tightening the band at the base of the testicles in `67 (first oil embargo- 6 day war - not much effect on PPG but leadership had their heads in the sand about what would happen if a better organized effort took off), probably testes began rotting in `73 (second embargo - yom kippur war - PPB shot up from around $2 - $12 and lines at the pumps). Oil & Israel, huh?

Instead of getting out of that part of the world and off that teat ASAP, by any means necessary (could have been done over a decade - nuclear and plenty of hydrocarbons here), we pansy as*sed and prevaricated and posed - cute and profitable to all but the Republic.

So, we continued sucking and farking with the natives and here we are (have been skimming IG's report on where that unaccounted for sixty billion went winging away to in Iraq - disgusting).

The Repeated Meme:Maybe I should be telling some of you to get off my lawn, but I remember a time going toe to toe with the the Russkies, a country with an ACTUAL ability to destroy America, and everyone being quite manly about it.

Now, it's all "OMG teh Iranians are going to get us all!ELEVENTY!!11!!!!"

Any Farkers able to accurately pinpoint the year America became a nation of girly men?

"The loss of U.S. military personnel during the Black Hawk Down operation evoked public outcry. Television images of American soldiers being dragged through the streets by Somalis were too graphic for the American public to endure.Fear of a repeat of the events in Somalia shaped U.S. policy in subsequent years, with many commentators identifying the Battle of Mogadishu's graphic consequences as the key reason behind the U.S.'s failure to intervene in later conflicts such as the Rwandan Genocide of 1994. After the battle, the bodies of several U.S. casualties of the conflict were dragged through Mogadishu's streets by crowds of local civilians and members of Aidid's Somali National Alliance. According to the U.S.'s former deputy special envoy to Somalia, Walter Clarke: "The ghosts of Somalia continue to haunt US policy. Our lack of response in Rwanda was a fear of getting involved in something like a Somalia all over again."

I have personally spoken to more than one survivor of the Battle of Mogadishu. The ones I have spoken with are still pissed at having been evac'd and not permitted to finish the job--and they do not blame General Garrison, they blame President Clinton.

The Repeated Meme:Any Farkers able to accurately pinpoint the year America became a nation of girly men?

The usurpation of states' rights and centralization of power in the hands of a cabal of decadent European bankers known as the Bavarian Illuminati through the repeal of the democratic Articles of Confederation and their replacement with the blueprint for authoritarian mind control known as the Constitution.

"Well, the United States doesn't consider Al Queda to be any threat, or they'd have a tighter defense. An analysis of the plans provided by a public records search has demonstrated a weakness in the Twin Towers. But the approach will not be easy. You are required to maneuver straight downtown and skim the buildings to the World Trade Center. The target area is only two hundred feet wide. It's the upper floors of the towers. The structural steel is vulnerable to high heat, and the fire insulation is not blast rated. A precise hit will start a fire which should destroy the buildings. Only a precise hit will set off a chain reaction. The buildings are bomb-hardened, so you'll have to use hijacked airplanes".

Arkanaut:Well to be fair, American "destroyers" were basically just a size up from frigates until what, the 1970's or so?

If I remember correctly WW2 Destroyers, like The USS Laffey, were in the neighborhood of 375 ft, compared to Mighty Mo at 887ft, compared to the Hornet at 872 ft, where as frigates like the Brisbee were in the neighborhood of 300 ft.

But after the battleships were retired, the subsequent classes of destroyers and frigates got longer. The Arleigh-Burke Class of destroyers are in the neighborhood of 500 ft and the Oliver Hazard-Perry Class of frigates are in the neighborhood of 445 ft. So, destroyers are still basically a size up from frigates

"Well, the United States doesn't consider Al Queda to be any threat, or they'd have a tighter defense. An analysis of the plans provided by a public records search has demonstrated a weakness in the Twin Towers. But the approach will not be easy. You are required to maneuver straight downtown and skim the buildings to the World Trade Center. The target area is only two hundred feet wide. It's the upper floors of the towers. The structural steel is vulnerable to high heat, and the fire insulation is not blast rated. A precise hit will start a fire which should destroy the buildings. Only a precise hit will set off a chain reaction. The buildings are bomb-hardened, so you'll have to use hijacked airplanes".