Part of JV's problem is his positioning in the post. He's 2 feet too far away from the lane. Where he starts his move's lets other team's defense's collapse on him, because the moves take too long. If he was 2 feet closer, they would have a tougher time collapsing on him and his moves to the basket would be shorter and sharper.

I think a bigger problem is he doesn't have the strength or the moves. Which is fine, not many 2nd year players do, at least his rebounding is improved compared to last season. Right now we are not really playing to his strength which is P&R and speed on the court. Part is personnel, no good passers/ball handlers on this team, and part is casey who is averse to P&R (maybe the first reason is part of why he is though).

Anyway, i'm thinking about starting a thread inquiring why people are surprised about the Nets and Knicks.

knicks are in the same boat with us, a fan base with unreasonable expectations based on shaky grounds. few expected them to be much better than a .500 team, which they will probably be. The chandler injury is a bit of a problem given their thin frontcourt and jr smith is a shadow of his last year's version.

the nets on the other hand are being hammered by injuries and their old guys severely underperforming. Personally, I expected them to struggle big from the get-go (not to this extent though). However, if their health holds, come playoff time they are the last team I would like to play outside miami in the east. Unless the slow start of KG/Pierce is a nash-like crash which is a real possibility given their age. And kidd as a coach and deron still have a lot to prove, a bit strange the decision to go with a rookie head coach in such a critical season. Still , the talent and experience on that team is unreal.

knicks are in the same boat with us, a fan base with unreasonable expectations based on shaky grounds. few expected them to be much better than a .500 team, which they will probably be. The chandler injury is a bit of a problem given their thin frontcourt and jr smith is a shadow of his last year's version.

the nets on the other hand are being hammered by injuries and their old guys severely underperforming. Personally, I expected them to struggle big from the get-go (not to this extent though). However, if their health holds, come playoff time they are the last team I would like to play outside miami in the east. Unless the slow start of KG/Pierce is a nash-like crash which is a real possibility given their age. And kidd as a coach and deron still have a lot to prove, a bit strange the decision to go with a rookie head coach in such a critical season. Still , the talent and experience on that team is unreal.

Go look at Thug's thread concerning whether the Knicks would do better or worse than the Raptors. I think you'll find that many more than a few thought it was not even a comparison that should be made.

And the bulk of people zeroed in on the sentiments of your last sentence concerning the Nets. It's not just looking past the possibility of injuries. There is more to a team than a collection of talent. They are farther off from fitting together than Toronto is.

Here's another question. Forgetting the record, who enjoys watching this team play?

I watch them because they are my team.. but I don't enjoy watching how they play.. all the wasted possessions and selfish play. But I know it won't last to long, this will be the last season you will see this group together

I watch them because they are my team.. but I don't enjoy watching how they play.. all the wasted possessions and selfish play. But I know it won't last to long, this will be the last season you will see this group together

Not sure about this group not being together next year. I hope Masai keeps what he likes with the team, picks up a few talented players and tries to create come continuity with this club. :cookie:

And the bulk of people zeroed in on the sentiments of your last sentence concerning the Nets. It's not just looking past the possibility of injuries. There is more to a team than a collection of talent. They are farther off from fitting together than Toronto is.

doesn't really compare to us, we've been together for nearly a season now, 60+ games including pre-season. And for the nets there is no potential wiggins waiting at the end of the season - it's an option only available to us.

Personally, I've said it all along, if this was a regular draft year, I would have no problem waiting on this team a full season to see where it's going. I'm pretty sure there's no future for it, but there's still enough doubt left to make me willing to wait another year for a full rebuild.

But I'm not sure I could stomach us failing with this roster and missing out in a draft that's expected to yield a bunch of all stars and some true franchise changers.

I'd rather take a 10% chance at a superstar in the draft than a 10% that this team is any good. Because even if you don't draft that superstar, I'm confident Masai would pick a very good player with a top 5 pick this season, while the other scenario, if it turns out we're not good enough, we'd be in a much shittier starting point.

I don't think i was making a comparison between teams. I was making a comparison between expectations. I thought that was what this thread was about. But please carry on about the need to tank. I can't pull myself away from the same points being made for the thousandth time.

We'll be a player in the lottery the way we're going, whether it's intentional or not. Cleveland is already having players only meetings. Mike Malone is giving impassioned speaches to the media about players bringing it. Charlotte and Phili are playing the guys who compete, not the guys who are supposed to play.

I think what we're experiencing is a Collangelo hangover - his culture of pretending is still prevalent, which should be enough to make us a player in the lotto. Wiggins/Demar = Success.

But I won't complain if Casey decides to actually start coaching and we play some good basketball.

I don't think i was making a comparison between teams. I was making a comparison between expectations. I thought that was what this thread was about. But please carry on about the need to tank. I can't pull myself away from the same points being made for the thousandth time.

yeah, well the thread derailed already
anyway, you're basically trying to argue that every team that struggles vs expectations would give reason to fans to be surprised. Which is obviously obvious ...

My original point is that our fans should NOT be surprised that we play like we do, because we were EXPECTED to play like this. Fans for teams like the Nets or last season's Lakers SHOULD have been surprised, because their teams were NOT expected to be like that. Those teams were UNDERPERFORMING while we are more or less performing according to the general consensus before the season. Maybe our offense is a little uglier and our defense a little better, but not dramatically so. Casey-ball is ugly-ball by design.

yeah, well the thread derailed already
anyway, you're basically trying to argue that every team that struggles vs expectations would give reason to fans to be surprised. Which is obviously obvious ...

My original point is that our fans should NOT be surprised that we play like we do, because we were EXPECTED to play like this. Fans for teams like the Nets or last season's Lakers SHOULD have been surprised, because their teams were NOT expected to be like that. Those teams were UNDERPERFORMING while we are more or less performing according to the general consensus before the season. Maybe our offense is a little uglier and our defense a little better, but not dramatically so. Casey-ball is ugly-ball by design.

Buddy...It's kind of arrogant it is to think everyone should share your opinions and expectations.

Fwiw I don't think I ever expected the knicks and nets to be in the top 5 in the conference, and didn't expect the Lakers to do anything. Am i supposed to be shocked at their fans expectations or yours?

Well i expected problems from both the Lakers and the Nets. Nyah nyah nyah.

individual opinions don't count though, it's more about mass perception vs mass reaction ...after all, you are not surprised by our record either. If you have to consider individual opinions, they should be matched against that individual's expectation.

for our team, the general perception reflected both in forum polls and outside sentiment, was of a middle of the road team powered by two inefficient scorers who plays an ugly style and should improve defensively without Bargnani and with a renewed focused on defense. Which, more or less, is what happens now. Discounting short-sample stats, it's likely that gay/demar will return to closer to 44-45% shooting and 32-35% from three and our record will eventually return to around .500 when the schedule eases out (barring any MU changes).

Buddy...It's kind of arrogant it is to think everyone should share your opinions and expectations.

Fwiw I don't think I ever expected the knicks and nets to be in the top 5 in the conference, and didn't expect the Lakers to do anything. Am i supposed to be shocked at their fans expectations or yours?

buddy, where do you see my opinions in that post? I was referring to mass expectations, go look at espn's predictions on the season and see how many people expected the nets to have a .300 season or the lakers to barely make the playoffs last season. Or, for that matter, look at the various polls on this forum. On the other hand, if you did expect the nets to be bad, good for you - you beat the market on that one. Just don't go about and complain how bad the nets are, since you actually expected that - that's all I'm saying.

That being said, at the essence, I also think that when you, as an individual, have an opinion that differs from the general consensus, you should not act too surprised when the outcome matches the forecast of the group. Most expected us to be what we are now, those who thought this team would be better, don't really have much basis for dissatisfaction. It just means the group was right and they were wrong.

I was expecting this, but even so I'm surprised at how reviled casey/gay/demar/lowry are (each to a different extent).

We were expected to be a more or less .500 team, we were expected to struggle a bit early due to the tough schedule, gay and demary were expected to be high volume/low efficient scorers (as they've been throughout their career) and casey was expected to struggle putting together an offense. None of this should come as a shock, and yet it appears to be such.

I see a lot of surprising positives this season (will see if they hold). Our defense is much better than I thought it would be , gay and demar are actually shooting very well from 3 and our defense is quite strong (8th in the league, but against a tough schedule). Even our offense is more efficient that it looks (15th). I think both of these are heavily influenced by our excellent rebounding (1st in the league in ORR and 9th in DRR), but still - if we maintain those rankings we'll easily be a playoff team.

We are on target to make the playoff (we are ranked 5th in the east by Hollinger's power rankings which take into account things like SOS and margin of difference), and even subjectively, we've been competitive with the 2nd tier teams (memphis/houston/portland).

Gay is having a career season in every stat BUT FG%, he just posted a 30/10 game, but people trash him because his FG% is poor and he has 0 assists. Yeah, that's bad to be sure, but then again, that was always his game - no reason to be surprised.

As for Casey, the talk was this season we'll focus on D at the expense of the O (last season BC was heavily criticized for asking for improvements in our offensive game). Casey is proving himself true to his words, we are excelling defensively and have little to no flow to our offense. But that was THE PLAN ALL ALONG.

Baring no changes, we will make the playoff with this roster, which is what most anti-tank fans were expecting. Just remember that what you see is what you get, and expecting more from this roster is actually your problem, not the team's. They are what they are and that was a known fact before the season.

buddy, where do you see my opinions in that post? I was referring to mass expectations, go look at espn's predictions on the season and see how many people expected the nets to have a .300 season or the lakers to barely make the playoffs last season. Or, for that matter, look at the various polls on this forum. On the other hand, if you did expect the nets to be bad, good for you - you beat the market on that one. Just don't go about and complain how bad the nets are, since you actually expected that - that's all I'm saying.

That being said, at the essence, I also think that when you, as an individual, have an opinion that differs from the general consensus, you should not act too surprised when the outcome matches the forecast of the group. Most expected us to be what we are now, those who thought this team would be better, don't really have much basis for dissatisfaction. It just means the group was right and they were wrong.

You have to be kidding. the basis of your posts was to be shocked at another opinion and that just arrogant. and I'm not talking abotu polls or anyone elses opinion, just your reaction to other peoples. And I'm not really sure what I saw it being... but I'm sure of one thing.