Just started plating and am trying a few new turn 1 Jap plans. The best so far was ignoring PH all together and having the KB make a port attack on Manilla. I ended up sinking about a dozen subs and some transports at a loss of only 10 or so strike aircraft. The advantage I see to this is that:

1. The BBs that you will sink at PH are not likely to much of a factor in future combats (It is the age of the CV after all) and you will lose alot of good planes/pilots in the process. 2. The subs are your biggest promlem early on and are hard to sink. Getting this many in port will keep 50+ of your transports (with valuable oil/resources aboard) from getting sunk over the next few months. 3. The KB is near the PI allowing turn 2 interdiction of escaping naval forces as well as port strikes elsewhere (Maybe Singapore or NEI)

Anyone else had success with a non historical turn one?

< Message edited by RUPD3658 -- 7/17/2004 12:52:28 AM >

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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"- Darwin Awards 2003

Just started plating and am trying a few new turn 1 Jap plans. The best so far was ignoring PH all together and having the KB make a port attack on Manilla. I ended up sinking about a dozen subs and some transports at a loss of only 10 or so strike aircraft. The advantage I see to this is that:

1. The BBs that you will sink at PH are not likely to much of a factor in future combats (It is the age of the CV after all) and you will lose alot of good planes/pilots in the process. 2. The subs are your biggest promlem early on and are hard to sink. Getting this many in port will keep 50+ of your transports (with valuable oil/resources aboard) from getting sunk over the next few months. 3. The KB is near the PI allowing turn 2 interdiction of escaping naval forces as well as port strikes elsewhere (Maybe Singapore or NEI)

Anyone else had success with a non historical turn one?

My competitive spirit tells me that what you propose would fall under the category of a bullshit/cheap move

Although I have to agree that all of your points make sense and this sounds like a more profitable venture than KBing PH.

If the Jap player prefers to expose his CV group to the 20+ subs that sortie out of Manila on Dec 8, then more power to him. If he prefers to leave the entire US fleet untouched at PH on Dec 7th, more power to him.

My bet is that the war will be a lot shorter if the player is doing a PBEM game.

PH has to be the focal point of attack since that was where the main US fleet was based. Attacking any other base would be a gamey move in Pbem but against the AI you can do whatever you want.

No, I disagree. Unlikely strategy, but not gamey. Of course, in a PBEM game, with non historical 1st move, the subs might not be in Manila, if the Allied decided to surge them out, after intercepting the last part of the 13 part message. (Manila had a purple machine)

So, if in a non historical 1st move, no house rule restricts port attacks to Pearl, the allied side might do well to surge his subs on turn 1. Is this possible?

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Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you. Sun Tzu

Might as well not attack Wake either with this strategy., because the allies BB's will crush the landing ships, and then bombard anything on land that managed to unload. You could either use these troops to reinforce some of the islands that are close to the PH-OZ supply line. Or could use them to help take some South Pacific bases.

If this is a one year scenario it might work, but in the longer scenarios those bb's are going to damage your bases with bombardment, not to mention the points lost for not sinking them.. why not attack manilla with cvl's? And not at all gamey in my op..

I don't think this is a "gamey" or "bullshit" tactic at all. I used to play Victory Games Pacific War board game many years ago and this was actually my preferred option as the Japanese first turn. By deploying carriers to the PI you quickly disposed of all the air and naval assets in the whole area, including a healthy number of subs and considerably sped up the conquering of the Phillipines and Java. The downside as someone else mentioned is that the subs were a considerable threat to the carriers when they got out of port and you left the US battlefleet intact which makes life much more difficult in the mid term of the game. The flak, bombardment and gunnery strength of those BB's are going to be quite useful for the USN in a Solomons type campaign in late 42 and 43.

If you don't want to go for PH then this is by far and away the best alternate use of the KB in my view.