All of you demanding runs on 2d and 1 and 3d and 1 and whatever got a snootfull of them last night. Where did it get us?

Sometimes it's not as easy as replacing the head coach.

Sometimes your defensive system depends on effective play from the CBs and you don't get it. Sometimes you invest five years in a mediocre quarterback, never getting the 'Franchise' guy, and when he has to play is hot and cold just like he's always been. Sometimes your only effective DE goes down with a season ending injury, and your best receiver misses a bunch of games with an injury.

Laying this turd of an offense, and turd of a season, at the feet of Brian Billick is easy to understand after that embarrasment last night.. "The buck stops here" and so on. But it's not that simple.

One explanation for a consistently bad offense, or at least, consistently bad explosive-type offense, is poor coaching. Another explanation is that this team has not had a truly good quarterback since Vinny Testaverde.

I am completely in favor of having a true offensive coordinator. Not Rick Neuheisel, but a real NFL pro. But I am not in favor of canning a perfectly good head coach who has never had a good quarterback under center, and still put together some decent years with what he's had.

Where is Dungy without Manning? Belicheat without Brady? Some of you need to come back to earth I think.

:2c:

Hang on a second. Don't forget your change for your two cents. You have a penny coming back to you. :069:

12-10-2007, 01:22 PM

festivus

Re: Billick Stays?

I know Dave. I don't really expect people to agree with me. But in answer to BEZ, yes I'm serious.

Look. If the FO decides it's time to get rid of Billick, fine, I understand, this season has been that bad. But I for one - that's why it's *my* :2c: - think that decision should not be made lightly, and all those here & elsewhere who think it's a silver bullet are oversimplifying.

12-10-2007, 01:24 PM

xmradiodave

Re: Billick Stays?

Quote:

Originally Posted by festivus

I know Dave. I don't really expect people to agree with me. But in answer to BEZ, yes I'm serious.

Look. If the FO decides it's time to get rid of Billick, fine, I understand, this season has been that bad. But I for one - that's why it's *my* :2c: - think that decision should not be made lightly, and all those here & elsewhere who think it's a silver bullet are oversimplifying.

I was just pickin on ya festivus. I like reading everyone opinions.

12-10-2007, 01:26 PM

ExiledRaven

Re: Billick Stays?

I've always thought you're fair festivus, and what you're saying does make a lot of sense.

At some point though, I am going to be VERY entertained if Redman and the Falcons stomp the Saints tonight. The meltdown WILL be hilarious.

Also, who the heck replaces billick when/if he goes? That's the fun one right there. I have absolutely no idea.

We'll see what happens here I think everyone can agree this is going to be one of the most meaningful offseasons in a long time. Boy do the McNair and Ogden contracts really KILL the team now. :grbac: :grbac: :grbac:

12-10-2007, 01:33 PM

4G63

Re: Billick Stays?

This team has had many problems this year and everyone wants to see Billick gone because its a bad season, without looking at the big picture. Think about what Heap brings to the offense. Think about what Pryce, CMac, and Rolle bring to the D. These guys take the pressure off the other pieces on the chess board. Heap and Pryce getting double-teams means other guys' have to work beyond their capabilities.......

Look at the big picture and context of this season.....we've had numerous injuries that have crippled us on both sides of the ball. Is BB the reason our season has tanked? Yes and no. He couldn't make a whole lot of adjustments with the players he's had because they're not as good as the team thought....

12-10-2007, 01:34 PM

festivus

Re: Billick Stays?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExiledRaven

I've always thought you're fair festivus, and what you're saying does make a lot of sense.

At some point though, I am going to be VERY entertained if Redman and the Falcons stomp the Saints tonight. The meltdown WILL be hilarious.

Also, who the heck replaces billick when/if he goes? That's the fun one right there. I have absolutely no idea.

We'll see what happens here I think everyone can agree this is going to be one of the most meaningful offseasons in a long time. Boy do the McNair and Ogden contracts really KILL the team now. :grbac: :grbac: :grbac:

Thanks ER. I didn't expect a warm reception when the pitchforks are out, but I posted my thoughts anyway.

The 'what happens if we fire Billick' question actually doesn't bother me at all. They'd find somebody, somewhere. From outside the organization, I hope. Promoting from within if the whole point was to change the culture would seem to defeat the purpose. But it's not going to happen, and for all the complaints about Billick's contract, I don't think that has much if anything to do with it.

12-10-2007, 02:03 PM

RavenTD

Re: Billick Stays?

I agree its very hard to judge Billick with all the injuries.

Its easy to judge Billick who did not come through the NFL coaching ranks.But started off as a PR guy for the 49ers.He was brought here on the grounds of his prolific offense at the Vikings.And what have we had,defense and ball control.It worked well back in the day,but you cannot keep playing the same tune over and over again.The rest of the NFL has passed the Ravens by.

This team has fallen behind personnel wise and coaching wise on offense.

The train has crashed it is a wreck. Billick is the train driver.Whatever he says
is going to fall on deaf ears.There was a glimmer of hope vs the PATS, where I thought Billick could have held on.

With a season like this,Steve B has to look in every detail from top to bottom
on what has gone wrong,why it has gone wrong.And where the buck stops.

Billick goes if he has lost the players and the fans.
Billick goes if he will not relinquish control of the offense to a new offensive co-ordinator with their own playbook.And is told to keep his dirty paws off the playcalling during the game.

Billick should be a figurehead coach and let his co-ordinators do their jobs.

It is very hard to come back from a season like this.Without some house cleaning.The team needs a fresh approach and better discipline.Its wheels have been spinning in the mud for too long now.

12-10-2007, 02:34 PM

Bez513

Re: Billick Stays?

I'm not judging Billick based on this year alone. It's the years of ineptness on offense, the lack of developing a QB, the constant "we'll get better and move on" excuses, etc. He's too stubborn to make the necessary changes to point us in the right direction. His time is over...I thank him for the SB, but it's time to start fresh. That means all coaches go and whoever is the new HC let them decide who to keep and who to let go.

12-10-2007, 03:03 PM

festivus

Re: Billick Stays?

Sure, I understand that. If the FO wants to fire him for, since 1999, having had only three years with arguably effective offenses, and even then we are *not* talking about good offenses, just effective, I'd understand.

I don't think we've had a franchise quarterback here, and I am doubtful we've ever had a good OC, but that's hard to tell from the outside. Maybe Mike Nolan, but he doesn't really count now, does he.

Anyway we will see. This will be an important off season, as will the one following, as we build toward 09 in my humble opinion.

12-10-2007, 03:09 PM

Bez513

Re: Billick Stays?

We've never had a franchise QB here. That blame goes on Billick, Ozzie and the draft people. But we've had good QBs that come in and go to crap once they are here. I can't name a good OC we've had...but the problem is Billick will not either hire one or give play-calling over to one. That's the stubborn aspect of Billick I can no longer take. He refuses to make the necessary changes or give people chances to try something different.

12-10-2007, 03:14 PM

Fanman

Re: Billick Stays?

Baloney...the big picture is that Billick has produced ONE playoff win since 2000....get a clue people. Let me say that again...1 post season win in the last 7 years. And you want to give this joker more time?

His lax discipline style doesn't work
His offensive scheme doesn't work
His play calling doesn't work

Do you really need another stretch of 4 years where we miss the playoffs 3 times to make a change? Or do you need them to have a year like Miami this year?

Good grief, isn't 9 years of a horrible offense enough?

FM

12-10-2007, 03:16 PM

Fanman

Re: Billick Stays?

It's not like Billick has been here just a few years....it's been 9 FRIGGIN YEARS!!!

FM

12-10-2007, 03:57 PM

Purpleguy

Re: Billick Stays?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bez513

We've never had a franchise QB here. That blame goes on Billick, Ozzie and the draft people. But we've had good QBs that come in and go to crap once they are here. I can't name a good OC we've had...but the problem is Billick will not either hire one or give play-calling over to one. That's the stubborn aspect of Billick I can no longer take. He refuses to make the necessary changes or give people chances to try something different.

Billck never called plays until the middle of last season. He always let the OC do it. After he took over midseason the offense looked better than it had in years, of course the o-line actually pass blocked very well last year.

People constantly bring up QB inconsistencies, and they have a point, but our o-line has been the most inconsistent part of this team. Sometimes they can run block but not pass block. Sometimes it's vice-versa. They can never do both. It's sort of difficult to game plan around such an inconsistent line, and it's even harder to be a decent QB behind that line. Many of us have been clamoring about the o-line for 10 years. Fix the o-line and you will fix the offense. A game breaking receiver wouldn't hurt either.

12-10-2007, 04:15 PM

Fanman

Re: Billick Stays?

"Fix the o-line and you will fix the offense. A game breaking receiver wouldn't hurt either."

This is a joke right....you think it's this simple? It's WAY more than this.

The ONE constant here for the offensive ineptitude is Billick's system. Until the system goes, it doesn't matter what players we have. His "play not to lose" philosophy doesn't work...it's that simple.

When trailing 37-7 last night he is still pounding Willis up the middle. WTF? Billick calls games like a big pu--y and I am sick and tired of his crappy offense.

FM

12-10-2007, 04:24 PM

Bez513

Re: Billick Stays?

The OL is young and takes time to mature. JO has lost his fire to play. To me saying the OL is more inconsistent then QB play is crazy.

12-10-2007, 04:35 PM

festivus

Re: Billick Stays?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fanman

The ONE constant here for the offensive ineptitude is Billick's system. Until the system goes, it doesn't matter what players we have.

This is partly true. Certainly Billick has been a constant, and expect this off season to see a real OC come in, and run his own offense. It's what other teams do, and it's what we should do, too. No college coach for me, please.

But there have been other consistencies. We have never had a franchise quarterback. We just haven't. And until the last two years, the FO has thrown relatively little money at that side of the ball.

Anyway, Fanman, you and me both are looking forward to what a new offense will bring next year. I anticipate BB will still be here, but will have (with a sigh of relief from BB, I would guess) turned the reins over to somebody else.

12-10-2007, 05:03 PM

RAVENOUS52

Re: Billick Stays?

I'm not gonna bail on Billick just yet. In today's NFL teams can go from first to worst in a nanosecond. What I want to see is if Billick can help us rebound as strong as we have in previous years under his reign following a poor season (which nearly all have been due to multiple injuries to key players).

He's on thin ice with me, but I'll give him until next season to pull out the Zamboni...

12-10-2007, 05:14 PM

AZRAVEN

Re: Billick Stays?

I'm pretty much done with Billick. That said, he's not the only one that needs to be seriously evaluated. I know Ozzie and the scouting department are holy around here but to me, they are to blame for the almost total lack of depth we have. If a first stringer goes down anyplace on the field we have nobody to replace them that is decent. We have never had a decent quarterback. That stuff stems from Ozzie's department.
What I blame Billick for is the lack of control and discipline that permeates this team. Do you honestly think all of the Pats like Belichick? Hell no, they play for him because he demands it and if they don't he gets rid of them in a second. Billick doesn't demand anything of this bunch of egos, he pampers and babies and kisses ass with them. Part of that I blame on Bisciotti and his public stripping of Billick. The message went out loud and clear to every player on the team, it's ours we are in control, Billick can't do anything to us and that's exactly how they conduct themselves. Do you ever hear of Billick fining a player? sitting a player down? anything??? No you don't.
Billick really has to go, he can't reign the players in at this point. The only concern I have about dumping him is who do you get to replace him and will they be able to get control of the team. These guys have been running things so long they aren't going to be happy suddenly having to take orders.

12-11-2007, 04:39 AM

purple bird

Re: Billick Stays?

One interesting point about the o-line; when Cavanaugh left and Billick didn't give the job to then o-line coach Jim Colletto, Colletto left.

That was after 2003.

Since then the o-line has been a train wreck except for last year.

The guy who replaced the line coach, Forrester, really seems to suck at coaching a VERY important position.

Forrester was a Billick "BUDDY"

So was Jim Fassel.

Both were/are ineffective coaching here.

I actually think Neuheisel might know his shit, which is why he distanced himself from Billick's offense early on when asked how he was going to run the offense now that he was the coordinator by saying "It's still Brian's offense."

Smart guy to know a wreck before it happens.

I just thought it was kind of interesting about the coaching effectiveness of Jim Colletto compared to the other memebers of Billick's "Crew" outside of Neuheisel.