WOW! They didn't really say that at all. They said that they even found TV's that claimed that they wouldn't do 1080P over Component and they did!

They did say that VGA was a safe bet though... I'll give you that.

Like I said though, they couldn't possibly test it for every display.

There's a simple solution to the problem of not being able to test it with every display: Allow color correction/screen position/frequency to be dealt with by the user in software. That's what pretty much every PC video card maker out there does.

WOW! They didn't really say that at all. They said that they even found TV's that claimed that they wouldn't do 1080P over Component and they did!

They did say that VGA was a safe bet though... I'll give you that.

Like I said though, they couldn't possibly test it for every display.

Besides, there are so many early adopters of HDTV's that don't have HDMI. I say start with them... and they have. VGA is for everyone else, now we just have to work the kinks out.

Again guys... we're lucky to get any of this.

My TV only accepts 1080p over HDMI. Granted, it is not a 1080p display (Pioneer 6070) but it does accept the 1080p signal via HDMI which I wanted so my TV would downscale it. Plus, I have tried VGA and it does not look good on my TV, to soft. Old JVC progressive scan DVD player looked better and games were not even close. So VGA is out for me. Just wanted a device that can output HDMI. I also disagree when you say it is a $200 player. It is not, sorry to be mean but I hate people keep saying that. It is the same price as the Toshiba and the new Toshiba coming out. You HAVE to have the 360 also, which puts the price at or ABOVE a Toshiba.

Well it seems to work fine on my Samsung HLN-5668W through the VGA. I set it to 1920X1080 and it came up just fine. The image isnt vastly improved but it does look a little better than 720p. I do notice that the minimal amount of lag that existed before is now completely gone. I guess taking that last bit of conversion the TV had to do to get from 720p to 1080p helped.

As far as people with Sony TVs having problems is concerned, it has been mentioned on another message board I go to that the problem may be related to the way the Xbox synchs the signal. It has been suggested that the Xbox may be doing synch on green. One of the members of that message board stated that their Sony manual states that the TV does not support synch on green. If that is the case then the problem could be simple. Microsoft should be able to change the way the signal synchs up. Since Sony owners have no problem with 720p over VGA it is likely that the 720p signal is not using synch on green. Microsoft would then only need to change the 1920X1080 signal to synch the way the 1280X720 signal does. Of course I have no idea if there are other factors involved but hopefully thats all there is to it.

Fine. If you're going to make that comparison... how many 360 games does the Toshiba play?

Seriously guys....

Totally agree. It was just that some people are saying it is a $200 player, you shouldn't expect a lot from it, if you want more go buy a standalone. Well this player costs more then a standalone since it goes with the 360. Because of that, I was expecting it to be more feature rich. That is all.

I am buying it, I do love the 360, a LOT! Will probably buy the PS3 also since I am such a rabbid gamer. I hope it does HDMI for its blu-ray better then Microsoft's HD-DVD. Oh well, guess we have to live with what we are getting on this player.

As far as people with Sony TVs having problems is concerned, it has been mentioned on another message board I go to that the problem may be related to the way the Xbox synchs the signal. It has been suggested that the Xbox may be doing synch on green. One of the members of that message board stated that their Sony manual states that the TV does not support synch on green. If that is the case then the problem could be simple. Microsoft should be able to change the way the signal synchs up. Since Sony owners have no problem with 720p over VGA it is likely that the 720p signal is not using synch on green. Microsoft would then only need to change the 1920X1080 signal to synch the way the 1280X720 signal does. Of course I have no idea if there are other factors involved but hopefully thats all there is to it.

Not likely... I did my own initial investigation, and the source of the problem is the horizontal frequency.

That is 500-600Hz off of what it is expecting. My guess is that the Sony is picky about the horizontal frequency, more than the Samsungs are (since the Samsung is expecting a horizontal frequency noticably lower than what the 360 is providing as well).

Totally agree. It was just that some people are saying it is a $200 player, you shouldn't expect a lot from it, if you want more go buy a standalone. Well this player costs more then a standalone since it goes with the 360. Because of that, I was expecting it to be more feature rich. That is all.

I am buying it, I do love the 360, a LOT! Will probably buy the PS3 also since I am such a rabbid gamer. I hope it does HDMI for its blu-ray better then Microsoft's HD-DVD. Oh well, guess we have to live with what we are getting on this player.

I look at it differently. When I picked up the 360 on launch day I did not expect to eventually use it as a HD DVD player. I bought it for gaming...

Now I see a $200.00 window into the HD DVD world and I'm going to take it. We don't even know how the whole HD DVD/Blu Ray thing is going to turn out...

I see it as a cheaper alternative over buying a $500 stand alone player. If HD DVD ends up dying... I'll have only lost $200.00

I bought the 360 for gaming and I'll still be using it for that purpose win or lose.

That is 500-600Hz off of what it is expecting. My guess is that the Sony is picky about the horizontal frequency, more than the Samsungs are (since the Samsung is expecting a horizontal frequency noticably lower than what the 360 is providing as well).

I read the manual for your TV and it does look like you are right. The manual for my TV lists the Horizontal Frequency at 66.6. That would explain why it works on mine. The interesting thing is that according to my manual my TV is using VESA timings for all resolutions 800X600 and above. This includes 1920X1080. The manual for your TV states that at 1920X1080 it is using EIA standard timings instead of VESA. Microsoft probably stuck to VESA timings and that is why Sony TVs are not working. Microsoft probably could fix this but by doing so may break support for TVs that are already working. The only other thing they could do is to allow you to individually set the Horizontal and Vertical frequencies. I dont know if they want to do this though due to the risk of people causing damage to their TVs/monitors if they select the wrong frequency.

I read the manual for your TV and it does look like you are right. The manual for my TV lists the Horizontal Frequency at 66.6. That would explain why it works on mine. The interesting thing is that according to my manual my TV is using VESA timings for all resolutions 800X600 and above. This includes 1920X1080. The manual for your TV states that at 1920X1080 it is using EIA standard timings instead of VESA. Microsoft probably stuck to VESA timings and that is why Sony TVs are not working. Microsoft probably could fix this but by doing so may break support for TVs that are already working. The only other thing they could do is to allow you to individually set the Horizontal and Vertical frequencies. I dont know if they want to do this though due to the risk of people causing damage to their TVs/monitors if they select the wrong frequency.

For PC support, panels with VGA or DVI will usually support DDC as well. From what I can tell from the behavior of the XBR2 (I will investigate this further as I am not 100% certain just yet), it does support DDC. Using DDC when available would get MS out of this mess without hosing people's TVs.

so, does the new resolution(1080p) show up as 1920x1080 when you connect using VGA cables? If so, it works for my 24" Dell Monitor, just have to adjust screen. Before only would show resolutions up to 1280x 1024.

so, does the new resolution(1080p) show up as 1920x1080 when you connect using VGA cables? If so, it works for my 24" Dell Monitor, just have to adjust screen. Before only would show resolutions up to 1280x 1024.

Cool. I'm tempted to exchange my XBR2 for a 4095D if we don't hear anything about this in the next week or two - how bad is motion blur and overscanning?

I have the Sammy 4095D, and I do not notice any motion blur or overscanning. Also, I hooked up the 360 with VGA and my tv said "mode not supported." I had to set the resolution blindly and just listen to the effects the 360 makes to know where I was going. Took a couple of tries and once I set the correct rez it automatically popped up on my tv. But as others have said in the past, the colors through vga look muted. I have yet to decide if I like vga over component just for 1080p for movies.

That is 500-600Hz off of what it is expecting. My guess is that the Sony is picky about the horizontal frequency, more than the Samsungs are (since the Samsung is expecting a horizontal frequency noticably lower than what the 360 is providing as well).

I have the Sammy 4095D, and I do not notice any motion blur or overscanning. Also, I hooked up the 360 with VGA and my tv said "mode not supported." I had to set the resolution blindly and just listen to the effects the 360 makes to know where I was going. Took a couple of tries and once I set the correct rez it automatically popped up on my tv. But as others have said in the past, the colors through vga look muted. I have yet to decide if I like vga over component just for 1080p for movies.

you don't notice overscan? is that just a simple observation or did you actually do a test to see if there's overscan? we all know samsungs have like 5% overscan, but i'm sure to see if you actually were able to circumvent that somehow ... someway... doubt it though

That is 500-600Hz off of what it is expecting. My guess is that the Sony is picky about the horizontal frequency, more than the Samsungs are (since the Samsung is expecting a horizontal frequency noticably lower than what the 360 is providing as well).

Hmm I wonder what the the freq are for my 37D90U aquos, analog 1080p through a vga/dvi work fine coming from a pc. However the 360 is not working. Checked my manual and can't find any info on it. Anyone know were else to look?

The Sony frequencies came straight from the XBR2/3 manual for my set. As for the frequencies that the 360 is outputting, well, for that you just need equipment floating around that can do the job. Plenty of higher end monitors will display the horizontal frequency as well... so if you are seeing the same frequency on two different brands of monitor, it is a pretty good estimate there.

Of course, when you still have old equipment sitting around from your electronics tenure in college, you tend to use that to measure.

Hmm I wonder what the the freq are for my 37D90U aquos, analog 1080p through a vga/dvi work fine coming from a pc. However the 360 is not working. Checked my manual and can't find any info on it. Anyone know were else to look?

Look on page 71 of the manual available from sharpusa.com. The D90U only accepts ****x768 via VGA for 16:9-ish. It can take up to 1600x1200 4:3 signals. It doesn't support any form of 1920x1080 over VGA. Seems it has a DVI port? Well, it is interesting, since the DVI port supports analog and digital DVI, but only ****x768 or lower works over analog DVI. Sorry, it it doesn't take 1080p over component, then you are entirely sunk for 1080p on the 360 unless they decide to make an HDMI cable in the future.

That is 500-600Hz off of what it is expecting. My guess is that the Sony is picky about the horizontal frequency, more than the Samsungs are (since the Samsung is expecting a horizontal frequency noticably lower than what the 360 is providing as well).

Somebody with a PC and something like Powerstrip could check a range of horizontal frequencies to see if the Sony is really that picky. On another forum a poster said he was outputting 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz/65 kHz to his XBR2 from a PC, and it displayed with no problem.

2 out of 3 of my points have nothing to do with the add-on. It's strictly a wider connection problem which ALSO impacts the add-on.

...even MORE reason why lack of HDMI is such a problem...

Meh. Even if it had HDMI everyone would be bitching about HDMI handshaking errors instead of 1080p support on their TV (which is where the problem lies). But at least you'd have a way to get out loseless audio...

Somebody with a PC and something like Powerstrip could check a range of horizontal frequencies to see if the Sony is really that picky. On another forum a poster said he was outputting 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz/65 kHz to his XBR2 from a PC, and it displayed with no problem.

I can probably confirm that. I just haven't done a full run-up with all the tools in my kit on the Sony side yet. I have just tinkered with the 360 side to see what it is doing and compared it to what Sony has written in the manual.

For all we know, it could be that it isn't that the frequency has to be in a specific range, but a specific multiple... But that said, I have tools similar to Powerstrip, and I can confirm if the Sony has DDC working correctly as well.

Look on page 71 of the manual available from sharpusa.com. The D90U only accepts ****x768 via VGA for 16:9-ish. It can take up to 1600x1200 4:3 signals. It doesn't support any form of 1920x1080 over VGA. Seems it has a DVI port? Well, it is interesting, since the DVI port supports analog and digital DVI, but only ****x768 or lower works over analog DVI. Sorry, it it doesn't take 1080p over component, then you are entirely sunk for 1080p on the 360 unless they decide to make an HDMI cable in the future.

Don't go by that manual, its useless. It does take 1080p over component, and it does take 1080p over DVI. The 1080p analog has been tested using a pc and it works fine, I believe the sharp is having the same problem that the sony's are having with the 360 giving it a freq the set does not like.

I have the XBR1 LCOS and the 1080p thru component does NOT work...I know its not a Real 1080p TV, but I think the 1080p setting should work anyway(just not being "True" 1080p)

Your display is a real 1080P display it just can't recieve a 1080P signal which is what was advertised when it came out. I find it suprising some will say who bought these models like myself that feel like you losing out on somthing especially given the PQ I get from my 360 now with components. I would bet my display that you are not missing out on anything with this update. It simply comes down to your displays scaler or the 360. I betting on the display(my XBR1 60") to look better then the scaler in the 360. The only change is your giving the job of the 360 to upscale vs the display. Guess what. You have been gaming in 1080P the whole time. But if you really feel like you are missing out on somthing then sale it and get the newer models or get any brand that is 1080P.

My TV only accepts 1080p over HDMI. Granted, it is not a 1080p display (Pioneer 6070) but it does accept the 1080p signal via HDMI which I wanted so my TV would downscale it. Plus, I have tried VGA and it does not look good on my TV, to soft. Old JVC progressive scan DVD player looked better and games were not even close. So VGA is out for me. Just wanted a device that can output HDMI. I also disagree when you say it is a $200 player. It is not, sorry to be mean but I hate people keep saying that. It is the same price as the Toshiba and the new Toshiba coming out. You HAVE to have the 360 also, which puts the price at or ABOVE a Toshiba.

Do u have a link to this display because that is the first display I ever hear that isn't 1080P but can accept 1080P via HDMI.