No. Question for you. If you were buying a bullet proof vest for use, would you ask someone over the internet,whose identity is unknown to you, may be false, could be a kid posing as an adult or an adult posing as something he is not ,and take that persons word for it? I would not. If you are,as you say , trusting your life to something ,best to see with your own eyes. If you watch a teacher or his students perform and you cannot tell if the fighting they do is effective , get away from fighting, you are not cut out for it. To guage the effectiveness of an art, join it, get the techniques performed on you and then decide. I trust my eyes, not the comments of Zapperman from Peoria or KillerJoe from Buffalo(made up names here, don't worry). If the site was comprised of professionals MA staff looking at all aspects of the school in question, I might listen , but still not without seeing for myself. people say anything over a keyboard, just to say it,who knows their reasons,. I feel that this type of info. can't be trusted. As a rough guideline perhaps, but the be all end all declaration of "Bullshido" should be left for the individual, and teachers should not have to go about waving their diplomas around at the whim of anyone. If you went to work for a large corporation, you wouldn't ask the CEO to present his credentials, he got there for a reason, if he doesn't live up to your expectations, leave. it's not your job to question him.

Mr. DeRenzo, verification of lineage, certifications, etc... is only one step in an investigation. As I said before we always recommend visiting the school in question before making a decision. HOWEVER once we have a body of information about a school and an instructor we, as a group, can make some informed inferences about the quality of the instruction available. It may not always be 100% accurate, but we have a fair degree of success discerning schools which can teach you to fight from schools that can't.

what about those schools that fall outside of your "fair degree of success" margin? Casualities of war?

"The pedant is he who finds it impossible to read criticism of himself without immediately reaching for his pen and replying to the effect that the accusation is a gross insult to his person. He is, in effect, a man unable to laugh at himself."—Sigmund Freud, The Ego and the Id.

He was never a blip. This site is closing in on a decade of existence and his school NEVER CAME UP. Let me repeat this fact.

HIS SCHOOL NEVER CAME UP IN DISCUSSION.

Why is it here now?

He decided to out bullshido.

Hold on..

This is how you and your student were treated. Quit lying and own up to your culpability.

Oh wow the guy that was contemplating going decided not to because, your student acted like an ass.

That's your fault.

People pass judgment all of the time. You've done that yourself by, agreeing with Martial Talk and not researching that website owner to the degree you did Phrost.

That makes you a hypocrite.

If you did actually research the martialist, you would see that you are supporting a website site-owner, that has less verifiable training than Phrost. This guy went out and suddenly created an art and wrote a book about said art.

That's the victim you support?

Wow sad.

I mentioned the phrost interview to prove my point. I cannot tell phrosts skill level from that interview or his own words anymore than you can discern a teachers/schools based on some video,website,postings or opinion. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF STARTING THIS POST.I am not a blip on the radar by my own choice. I don't care to join any organizations
and put up with MApolitics, nor do I want a McDojo filled with kids. I teach because I enjoy my art and have a duty to pass it on. I take my blood oath seriously. I am sure that someone will drop in on a class and give their report. If not, no loss for me, but maybe all of this attention will get others to be more thoughtful before they hit those keys.

I never said this about a new car. Your analogy fails. I mentioned infomercials on late night TV. A better car analogy would be me looking to buy a car. I research the cars I like and see that they are made by reputable companies with a history of car making. The cars follow standard designs and safety ratings. However, I go to a used car lot and a salesman tells me about this great car he has that I cannot pass up. I see the bumper falling off, rust throughout the car, and a puddle of dark liquid under the engine compartment. Do I really need to drive the car to tell it is crap? No. I can use common sense to tell I am being sold a lemon.

Nobody is questioning the quality of the video, but the quality of the people on the video. I don't care if it was from a camera phone or if Lucasfilms made it. It would not change the fact the what was on the video is an example of your style that does not measure up. If you have a better example that demonstrates good skill and not silliness, put it up to defend yourself.

Are your methods so different than what is already out there? That is a big claim in itself.

unfortunately I lack the ability to video and post. If someone wants to volunteer, come ahead.

Mr. DeRenzo:
The idea that it is possible for someone to learn any system well enough to replicate anf teach it solely through a couple of sparring video clips of 3-5 minute duration is hilarious.

Also:
To return to our Bullet proof vest analogy, I may not trust the word of a random stranger, but I would certainly think twice if I saw a proven Law Enforcement Officer saying that VestA is a total piece of crap compared to VestB. That would certainly make me inclined to demand a test of both vests before wearing one myself. And if the VestA company refused to allow a test because they were worried I might "steal their secret vest construction" then I certainly wouldn't trust their Vest to save my life.

Using educated and informed sources to help you narrow down your choices is good sense. It's what people do when they themselves don't have access to complete information about a subject.
When that subject is self defense, which is to say unarmed combat, then the best way to know if what someone is offering is legit is to see them in actual combat of some kind. Not choreographed, not staged, not under extremely restrictive rules. The reason you see an MMA bias here is because MMA is currently the best proving ground we have for whether someone can fight or not. If you art works, then it should work in the cage as well as the street and you should be happy to demonstrate it, or choose one of your students to do so.

Don't use a cage into street analogy. I have been in more bar/street fights than most. In no way does a streetfight compare to ring match. The match up of weight,age ,training level and the lack of curbs,stairs, furniture,additional opponents,police etc etc etc .just doesn't compare.
MMA fighters are individuals, as are TMA or streetfighters, some are highly skilled ,others less so. I do not accept your statement that the best way to prove an art today is in a cage.
No, use it. That is the best way. Go out and stand up to a bully or defend an old person or innocent victim. That is the true test of a fighter and his art. Otherwise it is just sport and exercise, which is OK if that is what you want. I tell my students to use what they learn. stand up for themselves or someone else.

BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

Join Date

Dec 2005

Location

W. Yorks, UK

Posts

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Posted On:6/03/2009 4:23pm

Style: Judo

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Originally Posted by sten

Don't use a cage into street analogy. I have been in more bar/street fights than most.

Maybe you should look into anger management.

Originally Posted by sten

In no way does a streetfight compare to ring match. The match up of weight,age ,training level and the lack of curbs,stairs, furniture,additional opponents,police etc etc etc .just doesn't compare.

BIG EDIT: I'd just like to add that most of these points are also utter rubbish.

In a competitive match the weight, age and training level of the participants are usually even. In training they aren't. A combat sport practitioner will end up sparring opponents with a diverse range of body types and skill levels during the normal course of their training.

I for instance, am the smallest regular attendee in my Judo class, so don't bullshit me that I don't know how to deal with bigger guys just because I do a sport, dealing with bigger guys is normal for me (sometimes I'm even successful).

During our sparring there's also not enough room for everyone to have a huge amount of mat space, so we generally have a decent awareness of the space we're fighting in... Things like other people, the edges of the mats and obstacles (walls, doors etc) all figure into our training, not by design, but by necessity.

I mentioned the phrost interview to prove my point. I cannot tell phrosts skill level from that interview or his own words anymore than you can discern a teachers/schools based on some video,website,postings or opinion. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF STARTING THIS POST.I am not a blip on the radar by my own choice. I don't care to join any organizations
and put up with MApolitics, nor do I want a McDojo filled with kids. I teach because I enjoy my art and have a duty to pass it on. I take my blood oath seriously. I am sure that someone will drop in on a class and give their report. If not, no loss for me, but maybe all of this attention will get others to be more thoughtful before they hit those keys.

You have not proven any point and that is the problem. You still skate around the issue of you are, what you study and what qualifies you to teach.

Organizations for all their faults do help provide a service by having a database of instructors. The org may be full of **** but you can find out who teaches it. As far as Phrost, invite him in here, if you don't know how there are plenty of forum leaders and admins willing to help you out.

Blood oath? Really? Do you make your students give a blood oath. IMHO, I think you have been watching too many movies.