Thursday, May 30, 2013

The following is a instant message debate between an blatant antinomian and me. Of course I am BerhaneSelassie and I changed his nickname to "Protestant Antinomian." This topic started over the popes alleged statement that atheists go to heaven, which was never even remotely said.

Protestant
Antinomian: <<(05/29/13 5:01 AM EDT)>> Aren't
you glad that the "Good Works Athiests" will be with you in Heaven?

BerhaneSelassie:
who said that?

BerhaneSelassie:
who said that lie "good works atheists" go to heaven? it
does sound like something you would say if that atheist confessed JEsus for a
10th of a second

Protestant
Antinomian came online at10:48 PM

Protestant
Antinomian came online at10:48 PM

Protestant
Antinomian: ACCORDING TO POPE FRANCIS, ATHEISTS CAN GET INTO HEAVEN“The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us,
with the Blood of Christ, all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the
atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!” We must meet one another doing good.
‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one
another there.”

Protestant
Antinomian: We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t
believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we
will meet one another there.”

Protestant
Antinomian: JESUS DID PAY For the SIns of ALL Mankind by His One time death
& Shed Blood on the Cross...That Payment was for Atheists too! ..... But in
order to Receive Jesus Payment for ALL your sins, you MUST BELIEVE Jesus is God
in Flesh who Died FOR YOUR SINS, > APART FROM YOUR WORKS < That He was
Buried and Rose from the Dead.Anything
apart from that, and you will > NOT MEET ME THERE!

Protestant
Antinomian is currently chatting in, endtime watchers

BerhaneSelassie:
care to explain how what the pope said there means atheists go to
heaven?

Protestant
Antinomian: ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we
will meet one another there.”

Protestant
Antinomian: You tell me

BerhaneSelassie:
and how does that mean they go to heaven at all?

Protestant
Antinomian: He said > DO GOOD And we > WILL< Meet one another there

BerhaneSelassie:
yes, they can do good, what does that have to do with going to
heaven in this case?

Protestant
Antinomian: Not might meet one another there .... but >WILL

BerhaneSelassie:
yes "we will meet one another there ie doing good

Protestant
Antinomian: The Pope said if ATHEISTS DO GOOD they > WILL MEET HIM THERE
IN HEAVEN

BerhaneSelassie:
in fact, if you read the beginning of what you said..

BerhaneSelassie:
notice he says "we will make that culture of encounter"

BerhaneSelassie:
hes not talking about heaven at all.

BerhaneSelassie:
Did you even read what he said?

Protestant
Antinomian: What does REDEEMED Mean Berhane?

Protestant
Antinomian: Simple question

BerhaneSelassie:
If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we
meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will
make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another
doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we
will meet one another there.”

Protestant
Antinomian: What does REDEEMED Mean Berhane?

BerhaneSelassie:
means bought

Protestant
Antinomian: Bought and PAID FOR

BerhaneSelassie:
now explain how you got "meet there"=heaven when the
pope said "meet there"="doing good"

Protestant
Antinomian: Does your Pope believe that Athiests have Been REDEEMED?

Protestant
Antinomian: What do you suppose it was that Jesus REDEEMED for the Atheist?

BerhaneSelassie:
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there
will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive
heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift
destruction on themselves.--2 Peter 2:1

Protestant
Antinomian: Berhane..... I know the scriptures.

Protestant
Antinomian: What do you suppose it was that Jesus REDEEMED for the Atheist?

BerhaneSelassie:
then explain how they were damned and redeemed

Protestant
Antinomian: What do you suppose it was that Jesus REDEEMED for the Atheist?

BerhaneSelassie:
redeemed just means hes made the necessary provisions so we can
leave sin and go to heaven

BerhaneSelassie:
doesnt mean we will go to heaven

Protestant
Antinomian: Jesus receemed > the necessary provisions so we can leave sin
and go to heaven??

BerhaneSelassie:
The restoration of man from the bondage of sin to the liberty of
the children of God through the satisfactions and merits of Christ. --Catholic
Encyclopedia's definition

BerhaneSelassie:
Are you suggesting Jesus only redeemed the elect like Calvinists?

Protestant
Antinomian: The BIBLE Says that Jesus Redeemed usfrom the CURSE of the LAW, being Made a CURSE
FOR US

BerhaneSelassie:
and?

Protestant
Antinomian: Jesus Redeemed the Atheist from CURSE of the LAW, Because NO ONE
IS GOOD and NO ONE Can DO GOOD to REDEEM themselves...... JESUS PAID IT ALL FOR
YOU & THe ATheist .....The Condition for SALVATION Is NOT DOING GOOD....It
is BELIEF In JESUS REDEEMING BLOOD SACRIFICE On the CROSS.

BerhaneSelassie:
btw...He was only made a curse in the sense he died the death of a
cursed man---onatree

BerhaneSelassie:
No one ever said anyone can redeem themself. Even wicked people
can be capable of SOME natural good--ISrael had wicked kings, but God even told
one of them "there is SOME good found in you"

Protestant
Antinomian: NO ONE Can do ANY GOOD THING to HELP Them get to Heaven

Protestant
Antinomian: NOTHING

BerhaneSelassie:
Yet some good things
are to be found in you, since you have removed the sacred poles from the land
and have been determined to seek God."--2 Chronicles 19:3

Protestant
Antinomian: You MUST TRUST IN JESUS ALONE & HIS PERFECT Sacrifice FOR
YOU on the Cross

BerhaneSelassie:
Never claimed anyone can do anything on their own to make himself
go to heaven

Protestant
Antinomian: Doing GOOD for OTHER People is NOT DOING Good for HEAVEN

BerhaneSelassie:
"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood
of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’
Even the atheists."

BerhaneSelassie:
NEVER said it necessarily is

Protestant
Antinomian: He said > DO GOOD And we > WILL< Meet one another there

Protestant
Antinomian: The RCC is ALL ABout DOING GOOD To GAIN Entrance into Heaven

BerhaneSelassie:
yes, meet one another "doing good"

Protestant
Antinomian: It is a WORKS For Salvation factory

BerhaneSelassie:
its a way people speak, nothing to do with heaven, its about a
"culture"

Protestant
Antinomian: sorry berhane.... you will NEVER WIn this one

Protestant
Antinomian: Your religion is trusting in the WRONG thing

BerhaneSelassie:
obviously i cannot win if you are willfully stubborn

BerhaneSelassie:
if we do good to others, if
we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will
make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another
doing good.

BerhaneSelassie:
how about actuallly reading what the pope said?

BerhaneSelassie:
"if we meet there, doing good...."

BerhaneSelassie:
no mention of heaven at all in the homily.

Protestant
Antinomian: The Atheist doesn't HAVE to DO GOOD to go to heaven....he Needs
to CHANE His MIND & TRUST JESUS IS GOD In Flesh who DIED FOR ALL HIS SINS ,
was Buried and Rose from the Dead, APART FROM HIS WORKS.....That is
the ONLY Way He or ANYONE ELSE CAN BE SAVED!

BerhaneSelassie:
yes, the atheist must have faith, grace, and DO good, otherwise he
has fallen from grace, and has denied the faith.

Protestant
Antinomian: NO...DOING GOOD CANNOT HELP

Protestant
Antinomian: lol

BerhaneSelassie:
and will come out,
those who have done GOOD DEEDS to the resurrection of life, but those who have
done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation.--JOhn 5:29

BerhaneSelassie:
NOTICE JESUS CONTRASTS THOSE THAT DO GOOD AND THOSE THAT DO BAD?

BerhaneSelassie:
Which one will the atheist that converts and believers, but never
stops doing bad, will he go to?

Protestant
Antinomian: NO ONE CAN DO GOOD Until they FIRST ARE SAVED By FAITH ALONE IN
JESUS WITHOUT WORKS

BerhaneSelassie:
depends on what you call good.

BerhaneSelassie:
AS i mentioned--wicked king did good.

BerhaneSelassie:
Yet some good things
are to be found in you, since you have removed the sacred poles from the land
and have been determined to seek God."--2 Chronicles 19:3

Protestant
Antinomian: God doesn't See ANYONE As being GOOD in his SIght until they
receive the IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD BY FAITH ALONE IN JESUS WITHOUT WORKS

BerhaneSelassie:
God created all things good.

Protestant
Antinomian: That has NOTHING to do with DOING GOOD For SALVATION

BerhaneSelassie:
no magical imputation required.

Protestant
Antinomian: Please don't Pick verses out of the air and try to Apply them as
a Condition for SALVATION

BerhaneSelassie:
Jesus said the saved WILL do good deeds.

BerhaneSelassie:
not "might if they want extra credit"

Protestant
Antinomian: Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but
according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and
renewing of the Holy Ghost;

BerhaneSelassie:
speaking of saving people, particularly when they were never saved
in the first place

Protestant
Antinomian: THE SAVED CAN DO GOOD and will Receive REWARDS for their WORKS

Protestant
Antinomian: THE LOST Can DO NO GOOD

BerhaneSelassie:
btw that verse teaches baptisal regeneration

Protestant
Antinomian: The LOST WIll Go to Hell due to their UNBELIEF & Be Judged a
Degree of PUNISHMEMNT IN HELL According to their WORKS

Protestant
Antinomian: It doesn't teach Baptismal regeneration....

BerhaneSelassie:
"by the washing of regeneration"

Protestant
Antinomian: The Regeneration is that of the NEW BIRTH of the BELIEVER As the
HOLY SPIRIT BAPTIZES the Believer into the Body of CHRIST ...... That is the
TRUE BAPTISM!

Protestant
Antinomian: That Baptism you CANNOT SEE

BerhaneSelassie:
regardless, that verse does not damage at all, it simply states
the actions you did before salvation have no bearing on how you got that
salvation

Protestant
Antinomian: That Baptism is DRY....NO WATER ADDED and it is > WITHOUT
WORKS!

BerhaneSelassie:
Jesus was "born of water and Spirit" in a sense

BerhaneSelassie:
JEsus commanded people to do likewise

Protestant
Antinomian: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest
any man should boast.

BerhaneSelassie:
once again Ephesians 2 is about people dead in their sins, in fact
the kjv adds these words

Protestant
Antinomian: Notice you are SAVED BY FAITH and > NOT OF YOURSELF ......
SALVATION IS THE GIFT OF GOD >> NOT OF WORKS!

BerhaneSelassie:
in fact the Council of Trent reaffirms this explicitly

Protestant
Antinomian: NOT OF WORKS Means > NOT OF WORKS

Protestant
Antinomian: Period

Protestant
Antinomian: STOP TRYING to SAVE YOURSELF

BerhaneSelassie:
never claimed to

Protestant
Antinomian: TRUST JESUS ALONE

Protestant
Antinomian: NO WORKS

Protestant
Antinomian: PERIOD

Protestant
Antinomian: NOT ADD SOME WORKS

Protestant
Antinomian: DON'T TRY To ADD ANYTHING

BerhaneSelassie:
read ST John on this, the point of the passage is mostly to say
salvation by faith is a gift of God

BerhaneSelassie:
ie. the process

Protestant
Antinomian: JUST TRUST JESUS PAYMENT ALONE

Protestant
Antinomian: JESUS REDEEMED You from the CURSE of the LAW BY > HIS BLOOD

Protestant
Antinomian: HE BECAME A RANSOM FOR YOU!

BerhaneSelassie:
why do you change topics

Protestant
Antinomian: You want GRACE or What you DESERVE?

Protestant
Antinomian: The Atheist needs the SAME THING

Protestant
Antinomian: SALVATION

Protestant
Antinomian: You can ONLY Receive SALVATION BY FAITH IN JESUS WITHOUT YOUR WORKS

BerhaneSelassie:
Before you go on read this:

Protestant
Antinomian: Romans 11:6 “And if by grace, then is it no more of works:
otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more
grace: otherwise work is no more work.”

Protestant
Antinomian: The WHole world Knows your Pope thinks Atheists Need GOOD WORKS to
Be SAVED

Protestant
Antinomian: But the GOOD NEWS is that You can be saved BY GRACE, Through FAITH
ALONE IN JESUS > WITHOUT WORKS!

BerhaneSelassie:
man is justified by faith
and freely, those words are to be understood in that sense which the perpetual
consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed; to wit, that we are
therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of
human salvation, the foundation, and the root of all Justification; without
which it is impossible to please God, and to come unto the fellowship of His
sons: but we are therefore said to be justified freely, because that none of
those things which precede justification-whether faith or works-merit the grace
itself of justification. For, if it be a grace, it is not now by works,
otherwise, as the same Apostle says, grace is no more grace.

BerhaneSelassie:
Stop making stuff up about the pope, especially after I already
demonstrated that he said no such thing

Protestant
Antinomian: You cannot MIX GRACE & WORKS for SALVATION

BerhaneSelassie:
I suppose I should believe all media lies about you if they happen

BerhaneSelassie:
read the statement above.

Protestant
Antinomian: Berhane....I read it

Protestant
Antinomian: It is a MIXTURE of SALVATION & DISCIPLESHIP

BerhaneSelassie:
none of those things which precede justification-whether faith or
works-merit the grace itself of justification. For, if it be a grace, it is not
now by works, otherwise, as the same Apostle says, grace is no more grace.

Protestant
Antinomian: That is the Problem

Protestant
Antinomian: you are NOT Able to divide SALVATION Which is a FREE GIFT & NOT
Of ANY WORKS with The Christian Life verses that Speak of the SAVED Man AFTER
SALVATION & The Type of Lifestyle they SHOULD Choose to Live to PLEASE GOD!

BerhaneSelassie:
NONE of those things which precede justification-whether faith or
works-MERIT the grace itself of justification.

Protestant
Antinomian: Reed what I just wrote

Protestant
Antinomian: If you Attempt to DO ANYTHING of Self as a Condition for SALVATION
from Hell....Then you will have NO GRACE

Protestant
Antinomian: That is just the way it is

Protestant
Antinomian: Romans 4:4 “Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of
grace, but of debt. “

Protestant
Antinomian: Romans 4:5 “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him
that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

BerhaneSelassie:
that quote only dealt with how to become justified when you are in
sin

Protestant
Antinomian: THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT HEAVEN IS NOT A REWARD For DOING
GOOD......Going to HEAVEN is a FREE GIFT BY GRACE Through Faith alone in JESUS
Christ who Paid it ALL For YOU!

BerhaneSelassie:
David was talkig about DEBT--as if God could ever owe man a thing

Protestant
Antinomian: Berhane...... The DEBT is your SIN

BerhaneSelassie:
Your idea of Jesus makes him a debt the Father have to pay

Protestant
Antinomian: You cannot REDEEM It by ANYTHING YOU DO

Protestant
Antinomian: JESUS Redeemed it by HIS BLOOD

Protestant
Antinomian: NO your part for salvation is that you > BELIEVE

Protestant
Antinomian: But youwill NOT Believe it
is FREE

Protestant
Antinomian: That is the SAD Part

Protestant
Antinomian: You cannot receive the Free Gift because you are TRYING to Deserve
it

Protestant
Antinomian: That is why God cannot save you.

BerhaneSelassie:
never remotely implied self redemption

Protestant
Antinomian: If you ADD your Good Works by Believing they can HELP Get you to
Heaven, then you cannot be saved by GRACE

Protestant
Antinomian: Understand?

Protestant
Antinomian: See, If it is of any works at all, then it is NO LONGER >
GRACE

Protestant
Antinomian: By simple definition, Grace is the very Absence of Works

Protestant
Antinomian: So it cannot be by Grace if ANY Work is Added to it

Protestant
Antinomian: That would redefine the Term

BerhaneSelassie:
talking about how to become just

Protestant
Antinomian: To be JUSTIFIED Before God to enter Heaven , you must be seen as
Having NEVER Sinned.And your WORKS
CANNOT Justify your SIN

Protestant
Antinomian: That is why it MUST be BY GRACE

Protestant
Antinomian: If you ADD WORKS to it , then it is NO MORE GRACE

BerhaneSelassie:
God remits small sins

BerhaneSelassie:
and allows for repentance

BerhaneSelassie:
and doing works are HOW we show sorry for sins, in fact thats how
King Nebechanetzar was instructed to show it

Protestant
Antinomian: God cannot Remit ANY SIN, no matte how Small, apart from FAITH
ALONE IN JESUS PAYMENT FOR THose Sins on the Cross, apart from your works

Protestant
Antinomian: God cannot just forgive your sins, no matter how small, as if
they never happened.

BerhaneSelassie:
ofcourse faith is required.

Protestant
Antinomian: Faith in JESUS PAYMET

Protestant
Antinomian: NOT YOU & JESUS

Protestant
Antinomian: Your Good works CANNOT HELP

Protestant
Antinomian: IN NO WAY

Protestant
Antinomian: You cannot BUY SALVATION through GOOD WORKS

Protestant
Antinomian: SO what you want to do is to HELP REDEEM YOURSELF

Protestant
Antinomian: That is what you really are saying Berhane....YOU Want to be
Co-REDEEMER WITH JESUS.

BerhaneSelassie:
never said that remotely

Protestant
Antinomian: Yes you did

Protestant
Antinomian: The ONLY PAYMENT For ANY SIN happened on the Cross

Protestant
Antinomian: Period

Protestant
Antinomian: So HUMBLE yoruself Berhane & Understand that YOUR WORKS DO NOT
Please GOD....He is NOT Impressed by your Zeal

Protestant
Antinomian: Understand that you are LOST and IN DIRE NEED of a SAVIOR, Because
your Good Works CANNOT EVER HELP

BerhaneSelassie:
are you suggesting God cannot be impressed by zeal?

Protestant
Antinomian: And come to JESUS and TRUST JESUS PAYMENT IN FULL, Apart from your
and the Roman Catholic church to HELP

Protestant
Antinomian: That will be the ONLY WAY you will wind up in Heaven

BerhaneSelassie:
are you going to answer my question

Protestant
Antinomian: God is NOT Impressed with your Zeal ..... YOU NEED SALVATION
according to KNOWLEDGE, because you are ignorant of God's righteousness and and
going about to establish their own righteousness through your WORKS..... You
have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God BY FAITH IN JESUS
WITHOUT WORKS!