BUT, doing it in singles tells me that you aren't. I'm glad to see that you were lucky enough to get in and out.

NitroWill

02-04-2008, 08:17

Yes I do have some cave training.

Saying I don't have training because I am on singles is pretty ignorant statement. A lot of intro cave classes are taught on singles (including mine). You can easily safely do limited cave penetrations with proper training and using the rule of thirds.

mwhities

02-04-2008, 08:20

Well, you called that right. I am ignorant. I don't know crap about cave diving.

You have "some" training? So you aren't certified? Was that your instructor with you?

I hope nothing ever happens.

NitroWill

02-04-2008, 08:23

Then why make comments questioning my training or saying I doubt I have it?

There are different levels of cave training - I don't have my full cave - but I have cave training and dive accordingly to my training.

mwhities

02-04-2008, 08:27

Very well.

Good luck.

BSea

02-04-2008, 08:52

Please tell me you two are trained for the cave.

BUT, doing it in singles tells me that you aren't. I'm glad to see that you were lucky enough to get in and out.
Devil's Den isn't technically a cave dive. there are some swim throughs, but you don't have an overhead environment to contend with. Except in the short swim throughs. It has a cave feel because you actually walk down into a cave, but the surface water is almost directly above throughtout the dive. Look at the pictures from this web page.

I've been there twice, and never saw anyone in doubles. The cave is blocked from rec divers by a grate. I think it's a great place to go if someone is considering cave diving. It gives somewhat the feel without the risk, and without having to run lines.

Edit: BTW, good video. I'm guessing your buddy is an instructor or a DM. His different fin colors is a good ID method.

NitroWill

02-04-2008, 08:59

While it is not a true cave system - there are many areas in varying length where there is overhead and no direct path to the surface. You have not seen doubles in devils den because they aren't allowed.

Bigg_Budd

02-04-2008, 09:03

Good vid dude.

jeepbrew

02-04-2008, 09:53

Cool vid man. BTW, what camera were you using?

NitroWill

02-04-2008, 09:56

Cool vid man. BTW, what camera were you using?

Thanks, shot with a Nikon S510 P&S Digital camera. Was holding a light canon in same hand as camera hence the shakey video.

hoobascooba

02-05-2008, 14:25

Nitro, good video man, I definitely want to dive at Devil's Den sometime in the near future.

Please tell me you two are trained for the cave.

BUT, doing it in singles tells me that you aren't. I'm glad to see that you were lucky enough to get in and out.

why you gotta bust everybody's balls for cave diving?

at first, I thought it was just me you were pickin on about it. But it's now apparent that you have a bonafide phobia.

You're gonna have to eventually realise that some divers have a higher level of confidence than you do, not that a handicap has anything to do with personal confidence. :smiley5:

hoobascooba

02-05-2008, 14:31

You have not seen doubles in devils den because they aren't allowed.

this is the very point MWhities obviously missed.

mwhities

02-05-2008, 14:40

Nitro, good video man, I definitely want to dive at Devil's Den sometime in the near future.

Please tell me you two are trained for the cave.

BUT, doing it in singles tells me that you aren't. I'm glad to see that you were lucky enough to get in and out.

why you gotta bust everybody's balls for cave diving?

at first, I thought it was just me you were pickin on about it. But it's now apparent that you have a bonafide phobia.

You're gonna have to eventually realise that some divers have a higher level of confidence than you do, not that a handicap has anything to do with personal confidence. :smiley5:

I have plenty of confidence. I just prefer not to enter a cavern/cave and I would hate for anything to happen to any one not qualified (with or without training).Yes, I did step on toes but, it was meant to be supportive, not "ball busting".

My handicap has nothing to do with it. It's my lack of training. If it was handicapped based, I'd not done 95% of everything I do now. Diving being one of the bigger ones.

So enough of "me" posting in here. I'm glad NitroWill has had some training and that the cavern/cave system he filmed was easy to navigate. I am "ignorant" to the fact of what you can/can't do at this location. I would never thought that doubles wouldn't be allowed but, again, lack of knowledge.

So, I apologize for being 'wrong" but, as I stated, I was only concerned for his and everyone else's safety. If that's wrong to do, I'll always be wrong.

Safe diving all.

hoobascooba

02-05-2008, 14:50

Nitro, good video man, I definitely want to dive at Devil's Den sometime in the near future.

Please tell me you two are trained for the cave.

BUT, doing it in singles tells me that you aren't. I'm glad to see that you were lucky enough to get in and out.

why you gotta bust everybody's balls for cave diving?

at first, I thought it was just me you were pickin on about it. But it's now apparent that you have a bonafide phobia.

You're gonna have to eventually realise that some divers have a higher level of confidence than you do, not that a handicap has anything to do with personal confidence. :smiley5:

I have plenty of confidence. I just prefer not to enter a cavern/cave and I would hate for anything to happen to any one not qualified (with or without training).Yes, I did step on toes but, it was meant to be supportive, not "ball busting".

My handicap has nothing to do with it. It's my lack of training. If it was handicapped based, I'd not done 95% of everything I do now. Diving being one of the bigger ones.

So enough of "me" posting in here. I'm glad NitroWill has had some training and that the cavern/cave system he filmed was easy to navigate. I am "ignorant" to the fact of what you can/can't do at this location. I would never thought that doubles wouldn't be allowed but, again, lack of knowledge.

So, I apologize for being 'wrong" but, as I stated, I was only concerned for his and everyone else's safety. If that's wrong to do, I'll always be wrong.

Safe diving all.

oh, well... for the sake of safety... then by all means, bust all the balls you want.

cudachaser

02-05-2008, 19:19

I take many open water classes to Devils Den...It is a very safe dive...they are just told not to loose sight of surface light. I won't give them lights and the dangerous entrances are clearly marked

Joe

TommyB

02-06-2008, 09:36

Couple of places do not allow doubles-
The one NitroWill was at, and Ginnie Springs.
You can only do doubles if ;
1. You have a Basic Cave from NSS/CD and I think TDI (same as Intro to Cave) (the card will say 1/6th doubles 1/3's on Singles)
2. You can do doubles as intro from NACD if your instructor signs a release. (at Ginnie)

No clue as to what political junk is going on behind this now. There's some mention of even Peacock doing this also. Might have something to do with distance on doubles etc--

Black-Gorrilla

02-07-2008, 08:32

is the vis there the same all the time?

NitroWill

02-07-2008, 09:05

is the vis there the same all the time?

Vis there is directly related to the number of careless divers stirring up the bottom, however most of the areas do clear out quickly, some are not so fast to clear as seen in parts of the video. Water level does fluctuate though - the dry cave inside the cave near the end of the video we had about 10+ ft to the top of the cave, usually its only 3-5 feet so water levels are down right now.

nizutz

02-08-2008, 22:06

I definitly need to dive at devils den. Looks pretty cool.

ianr33

02-08-2008, 22:33

Couple of places do not allow doubles-
The one NitroWill was at, and Ginnie Springs.
You can only do doubles if ;
1. You have a Basic Cave from NSS/CD and I think TDI (same as Intro to Cave) (the card will say 1/6th doubles 1/3's on Singles)
2. You can do doubles as intro from NACD if your instructor signs a release. (at Ginnie)

No clue as to what political junk is going on behind this now. There's some mention of even Peacock doing this also. Might have something to do with distance on doubles etc--

The "reasoning" behind restricting intro divers to single tanks is to limit their penetration distances.

My opinion is that this is one of the most stupid things I have ever come across in diving. When I took cave training I had been diving doubles for several years. No way was I going back to a single for an overhead environment. Fortunately some instructors agree with me.

Gombessa

02-08-2008, 23:54

oh, well... for the sake of safety... then by all means, bust all the balls you want.

Cave diving without training is *ridiculously* dangerous. Cave and wreck penetration is one area where I really don't mind people jumping all over each other on account of safety; it could literally save a life.

Btw, I don't know what Devil's Den is classified as - cave, cavern, overhead, swimthrough, open water, whatever. I imagine Mwhites is just reasonably relying on on title the OP chose to name the thread.