Our journey to make The Hobbit Trilogy has been in some ways like Bilbo's own, with hidden paths revealing their secrets to us as we've gone along. “There and Back Again” felt like the right name for the second of a two film telling of the quest to reclaim Erebor, when Bilbo’s arrival there, and departure, were both contained within the second film. But with three movies, it suddenly felt misplaced—after all, Bilbo has already arrived “there” in the "Desolation of Smaug".

When we did the premiere trip late last year, I had a quiet conversation with the studio about the idea of revisiting the title. We decided to keep an open mind until a cut of the film was ready to look at. We reached that point last week, and after viewing the movie, we all agreed there is now one title that feels completely appropriate.

And so: "The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies" it is.

As Professor Tolkien intended, “There and Back Again” encompasses Bilbo’s entire adventure, so don’t be surprised if you see it used on a future box-set of all three movies.

Before then however, we have a film to finish, and much to share with you. It’s been a nice quiet time for us—Jabez and I happily editing away in a dark cave in Wellington—but those halcyon days are quickly coming to an end. It will soon be time to step into the light. Expect to see and hear much about The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies in the coming months.

And there’s also The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug Extended Cut, which we’re in the process of finishing, with over 25 mins of new scenes, all scored with original music composed by Howard Shore.

So, was the "Into the Fire" thing to soften the blow? Certainly the Battle of the Five Armies is better than that, although I would have preferred that they stick to TABA. His reasoning does make a certain amount of sense.

Meanwhile, "over 25 mins of new scenes, all scored with original music composed by Howard Shore." Woot.

Of course, before we get too excited about the EE news, we should remember that Jackson initially overstated that length of the additional scenes for the AUJ EE. Hopefully that won't be the case this time.

And I hope that the new title is an indication that Smaug will be disposed of fairly early in the film so they can move on to the titular battle, and not an indication that he will be part of the titular battle.

Why, "meh". Why exactly is "There and Back Again" a better title than "The Battle of Five Armies" for the third film of three films? Be as specific as you can. I am genuinely curious to know.

A particularly smart person at TORN points out that while Jackson did overstate the extra material for AUJ EE, this time the fact that there is supposedly new original music from Shore would seem to indicate that the estimate is more accurate.

Why, "meh". Why exactly is "There and Back Again" a better title than "The Battle of Five Armies" for the third film of three films? Be as specific as you can. I am genuinely curious to know.

A particularly smart person at TORN points out that while Jackson did overstate the extra material for AUJ EE, this time the fact that there is supposedly new original music from Shore would seem to indicate that the estimate is more accurate.

1. There and Back Again is a more unusual and interesting title. BOFA sounds like the title for a video game.
2. It represents that the story is now not of Bilbo, but one from an outside perspective - which DoS shows.
3. I find Jackson's reasoning odd. Yes they have been "there" now. But they are still there.

Anyway, its better than Into the Fire. But I don't put much into titles as it is.

Ugh. The battle is the one thing I am least interested in seeing, but of course it's going to be the focus of the entire movie. I agree with SV, it sounds like a videogame.

_________________‘There’s no greys, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.’‘It’s a lot more complicated than that -’‘No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts.’ Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum

Yes, you. I do not agree with dear Frelga's last sentence, not at all. It doesn't sound like a videogame. It sounds like Tolkien's name for the battle that forms the heart of the last part of the story being adapted. It makes perfect sense. Truth be told, I have long felt a little odd about having only part of the story called "There and Back Again" and so I am glad that that title has been set aside for now (you can bet that Jackson's prediction about the box set will come true).

No issues with the title here. I agree with Voronwë that “There and Back Again” would have felt odd as a title for just the last part of the story. If the Hobbit had been turned into two films I would have preferred "The Hobbit: Fire and Water" as a second title though.

Now I am looking forward to the Extended Edition of “The Desolation of Smaug”.

(And might I say: Given that some have described “death” as the major theme of “The Lord of the Rings” I find it somewhat intriguing that both Middle-Earth trilogies evidently involved two young artists who wrote about their early death).

Last edited by Beutlin on Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

There are way too many THEs in these titles. THE Hobbit: THE Desolation of Smaug. THE Hobbit: THE Battle of Five Armies. A little awkward. This is not different from how the LOTR books are named, but then those weren't Tolkien's preferred titles.

And I agree with SV. Having War in a title is fine. But "Battle" seems to shrink the scope of the film, and also says nothing about the story. So it's a battle. Great...

But I'm thrilled about the 25 minutes. Not least because I was right about a longer extended cut this time and Voronwë was wrong.

Yes. Purists were harping on and an about the lack of a THE in the subtitle of the first Hobbit film.

But these past two titles are far too specific, with formal nouns forming both subtitles. The last one referred to the formal name of a geographic location, and this one refers to the formal name of a specific battle. More general titles that more simply describe the dynamics of the story, as with LOTR, would be preferable.

But I would guess that WB may have focus group tested TABA and found that the title didn't excite a general audience.

_________________“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King

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