The objective of a demon. Demonic Possesion.

In a case of demonic possesion what is it that the possesor is trying to acheive, and why? Is the objective to have a romp in human form, to make people aware, to be a terrorist of sorts, or something else?

When God cast Satan out of Heaven and placed him on Earth, he also sent the angels that followed Satan. In essence, God gave Satan the ability to reign the Earth if only for a short time. Knowing this, Satan uses his abilities to torment, persuade and find those weak enough to fall short of their faith. For those unfortunate people, we see and hear about how destructive demonic possession can be. However, I also believe that a person who has great strength can be possessed and not ever know. I have witnessed a person that not only spoke in a voice not of their own, but use sign language while speaking an unfamiliar language. It has been said that those with the most faith are tormented more than anyone else. Yes.. I think that those who are weak, then possessed, will do things they never would have if not possessed. Yes.. I believe this is very amusing to Satan as he uses God's children as puppets. The demons are having fun because this is their advantage to do what they can to overcome God's people.

Considering that the Hebrew scriptures do not contain any such account of a satan and angels being cast out of Heaven, then I'm not inclined to believe it.

Revelation 12 mentions something but the book was only included in the bible in AD 397, and only then because a Catholic committee reckoned it was written by John the Apostle, for which there is scant evidence. Had it been written by someone called Fred, it would not have been included. Many bishops rejected it, as did the Syrian and Eastern Orthodox Church, and Martin Luther.

Personally I don't believe in any of the 'boogiemen' notions. My point was she said Satan was sent to Earth, not Hell. This is the first time I have seen a belief of Satan being sent to Earth (to rule no less) and is why I questioned it.

***Your statement of "scant evidence" could be used against the entirety of the bibles. (You can't use the Bibles to prove the Bibles).

Disappearinghead, your opinion that spirits don't exist is only irrelevant to what's real.

In this topic, as much as you'd love to exercise your opinions, it's NOT what's it's about. Your opinion and inaccurate sources DON'T MATTER, so stop feeding the public your blind lies.

There are MANY incidents where people experience spiritual activity in modern day, INCLUDING MYSELF - so for you to say it's nonexistent because you don't believe in it, while its also stated in the Bible numerous times, even times where Jesus cast them out of people, is not only very ignorant but selfish and frowned upon. Get that in your head.

You should seriously work on your facts, instead of making up and believing fake facts, you're sending curves to people that shouldn't be sent, especially those who don't know of this topic. You should just start reading instead of trying to learn with your eyes and ears closed.

You should write a hub about it then and show us your sources for this revelation.

consider when you do:1) that paul equated demons to idols and purported that idols are nothing.2) Jesus instead of saying, i am going to cure your anarism, heal your veritigo and fix that spina bifida he used the language of the time because:John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Also note that he kept all his new revelations to kingdom business, judgment, afterlife, redemption - the gospel - he never affected their society in areas of science. He left the orbit of the earth to Galileo for example.

And please in your hub address the difference between the OT and NT in the area of demonology.

Not one meaning for all Scripture; All Scripture has their own meanings; but only one meaning for each Scripture; not meant to be interpreted by us - so don't look at it from your own opinion, but instead find the only real one.

Written. You seem to be very naive as to what Demonic Possession actually is. Even from the view point of someone who doesn't believe in it, which is very arguable, you don't really seem to know what you are talking about, or any facts surrounding it. We don't need to look at the NT or the OT, why would we? We can take examples from modern day. Do some research and then come back with a decent argument why you think it doesn't exist.

You believe facts right off the bat because they "click" in your twisted, self-opinionated mind. Facts that are wrong and inaccurate, facts of blasphemy.

Let go of the world, let go of reality, because it's only your reality, not the TRUTH about reality.Only thing will you be able to learn; without pride in your eyes. I'll say it again. Pride is pitiful.

Withchcraft was performed during Moses' time, if you want Old Testament facts.Spirits are required to perform witchcraft, especially powers of Satan & his demons.GET YOUR FACTS DOWN BEFORE YOU SPEAK AGAIN, YOU SPEAK OF NOTHING BUT INACCURACIES.

oh yes, as your hands are upon the ouija cursor the demon also takes hold and move that same cursor.

So the angels of heaven have this ability to also possess humans or is that just an extra power of the fallen ones? whom i guess fell with all their powers and got a little extra. When we see angels we see that they are seen of people when they deliver their message but somehow these fallen ones prefer to work invisibly. hmmm.

My understanding of posession is that it's main aim is to disrupt and create havoc in the person's every day life and health - including probably their beliefs. But some schools of thought say that the possessor is actually targeting others, not the person being possessed - how true this is, I've no idea. But if true possession does occur, then from what I've read about it's the person being possessed who suffers more than other people around them.

The main goal of Satan is get between you and God, between you and your relationship with God, to get between you and your praise, and to get between you and your worship. His job is also to get people to not believe in God and Jesus Christ.

Those who are possessed by demonic forces will disrupt any and all worship they can. They will go to Church and cause division among the brethren. They will cause doubt to come to believers. They will accuse believers of wrongdoing and try to convince everyone that they are right.

In all that they try to do, they cannot keep a soul from praising and worshiping God. This is demonstrated when Jesus came upon the man who dwelt in the tombs. Mark 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

Ok, I can see some benefit on the part of the demon in this scenario. The demon is a mole of sorts working through an individual to influence thoughts and opinions of those it interacts with through the possesed, but what of the possesed individual?

He lived in the tombs among the dead, no man could tame him, chains could not hold him, he cut himself on stones and he was naked. Jesus cast out the devils and he was in his right mind fully clothed and calm.

What of? Everything that they can get.Let me break it down for you, thoughthole.Demons are agents who work for THE Devil AKA Satan, Lucifer, the beast, the dragon, etc.Since Satan can't be omniscient like God, he has an army of ranked spiritual militia known as demons working for him; and against God....Against anything that has to do with God's Will, specifically of those listed in the Bible; i.e., commandments and the many warnings God tells us not to do, for there are curses for going against Him.

Demonic spirits are VERY aware of the whole Bible, what God stands for, and his instructions for people. They know y(our) past, but can't read your mind. Meaning they know what you've learned about God, and what you haven't - they can only prey on what you do not know, such as his warnings & commandments.

This is because we can't escape his curses for wrongdoing, whether we believe in Him or not - whatever actions they may be, there will be consequences because we're all created under and by Him - and we can't change that by believing in another religion, or choosing not to believe in God at all.

Atheists are the easiest for them, self-explanatory, because they don't know enough about God to have a "OF COURSE, NO WONDER" or "THAT'S WHO GOD IS" , etc. moment in their lives.But not to worry, many atheists have been revealed to by God himself, forcing them to believe in Him - these are more rare situations though.

Bottom line, just to make it short: Satan and his demons (fallen angels, called fallen angels because they're cast out of heaven, not because they "fell") know they're going to Hell, the place prepared just for them any anyone who follows them and their wickedness, and want to take as many souls (us) as they can.This flesh isn't us, the flesh is our gift, but it can be vulnerable to "possession" if we aren't careful, or if we don't have the right protection(of salvation). WE are our souls, which is what controls the flesh and the mind, the mind and flesh is vulnerable to control by these unclean(demonic) spirits, or moved by the Holy Spirit(represents God/Jesus).Our souls are our individuality expressed.Society wants to "mold" us into what they want, by limiting us and our minds (via fluoride in tapwater, etc.) [ Fluoride limits focus in many people, and without focus, you have little control of your mind; leaving space for vulnerability ]

Don't worry too much about it. The only demons are the ones you have created in your own mind. You are a product not only of your environment but of what you think and feel. If you continue to buy into the demons in your mind, they will grow. Whatever you think about and put your energy into, grows.

Decide to take a stand and create new realities for yourself. By this time next year, you'll clean out the demons. Don't go looking for trouble. You will surely find it.

If there's good there's bad, if there's the Devil, there is definitely God; the opposites.The list of evidence of God's existence goes on.......just think about your life and blessings and the opportunities you've been given.Coincidence isn't that generous.It's people who ruin their lives and blame God for it who are very lost.They brought it upon themselves, or their ancestors.All can be cleansed through God, though, when done correctly.

God's power and mercy are limitless - when you find it, when you acknowledge it. He can change anything at any time..

I've seen numerous possessed persons healed by the grace of God.Many who didn't really know about Him.......They do now.

...Not to be confused with exorcism, which is a spell used to cast out demons...God's power is way better, cleaner, way more effective, and the right one, not using a spell (form of witchcraft) on an evil entity, as it may end fatally for the host and the exorcist.

I created the name thoughole, so yes I have given some significant thought to it and it has a significant meaning to me. As far as its relationship with demonsI have not noticed any, and I struggle to find any relationship between the two now. It sounds as if you see some common ground I am interested to know what that might be. And no I will not reconsider what I call myself, I am very happy with my hubpages identity.

Thank You Kess, I appreciate that you have shared your opinion however I still fail to see the realationship, and I honesty don't really understand your circular thinking as I read it, it just does not make sense to me. I choose not to live my life from a fear base, and none of my thoughts including my hubpages identity have been derived from a fear base. Neither thoughts nor holes are evil in my perception, as a matter of fact both are quite natural, and the two combined merely represent a collective place where thought is stored. I suppose like all other things in life a thought, a hole, or a thoughthole have the ability to be used in either a positive or negative capacity but inherantly they are not good nor evil.Something only becomes a figurative demon if the observer gives it that power. I think that this statement may captalize on some what you have been trying to convey, or I could be wrong, I am really not sure. I appreciate you sharing your "thoughts" all the same.

The only thing Kess has left out is that the 'demon' who assumes your identity is you. There are no demons outside your own mind. They do not stand alone, some spiritual entity which can enter your body and possess it. What you ALLOW into your head, how you spin your own world - that is the only thing there is. That's why you don't see any relationship. There is none. Your name is what you make it to be. If I named myself deerslayer, it might be misconstrued as something that kills. I may have meant it to be someone who survives. 'Stands with Fist' was a name given in Dances with Wolves. She could have been someone who is aggressive and fights or someone who simply defends herself.

If you go looking for trouble, you'll surely find it. What you think about expands.

There is no such thing as demons. "Possession" is either a vehicle for insane "priests" to reinforce the brainwashing within an unsettled church environment, or an excuse parents use because they don't actually parent their children.

"Oh no, my kid is misbehaving, bring in the priest, he/she must be possessed by demons!"

In a case of demonic possesion what is it that the possesor is trying to acheive, and why? Is the objective to have a romp in human form, to make people aware, to be a terrorist of sorts, or something else?

Ya gotta wonder why something that has an ability to travel the world, see places and things and romp around with others of its kind, wouldn't do just that, but instead it places itself in human bodies and cripples them. Imagine a demon spending a persons lifetime inside a crippled body that couldn't walk. The demon be all like saying.. man hurry up will ya, its a two minute walk to the front lawn.. or be in some cancerous body all layin around with no energy, watchin endless hours of mindless tv.

but then again, these 1/3 angels created by God musta been the stupidest angels created.

Brotheryochanan, you comment embraces my thoughts at the time I posted this. It just did not seem to me like a demon would fullfill a need or satisfy any kind of secondary gain, especially not that of turning people away from god that I hear sited so often. If I witnessed someone speaking in other voices, contourting, moving things, while siting biblical blobbidy blu I think I would probably believe more strongly in the existance of Christian god. It just does not add up.

Read the Hebrew scriptures; there's no such thing as a demon or a demon possession. These ideas cannot be found in Judaism and therefore have no place in Christianity.

The Jews only came to believe in demons and possession after they assimilated Zoroastrian ideas from the Persions at the latter part of the exile. 400 years later they are ingrained in popular Jewish superstition.

In Jesus time, only the Hebrew scriptures existed so anyone who believed in demons had unbiblical beliefs.

In the absence of understanding about mental illnesses such as autism, bipolar disorders, depression, etc, of course people believed in demons.

Use your brains people, how could a spirit entity like a demon possibly inflict a physical illness? Magic? Sickness is caused by bacteria, viruses, the environment, poor immune systems, and genetics.

When are you guys going to get with the programme and realise this crap was debunked when religious folk at least knew what they were talking about, you know, before the whole crock exploded into a business with thousands of different voices at the money tit.

I agree. What people calling demonic possession is simply a manifestation of the symptoms of a neurological condition. This idea of demonic possession is a carry over from antiquity when people did not understand the human mind. People back then used terms such as witchcraft, witches, demons, angels, gods, and etc to explain anything and everything that they did not understand.

This is an interesting topic. It seems that most people who have experienced what they feel to be a "demonic possession" are the ones who have believed in it the most strongly. That is natural to feel that way if you believe in the existence of demons and demon-possession. Or if you feel you have seen demons or heard them speaking to you. Some call it insanity, some call it tapping into another realm. I would just suggest that if someone truly believes in demonic possession, to not ridicule their fear that they might have some sort of demonic influence working on them. They don't want to think that they are possessed, either. But for them, it's very real. I honestly don't know what to think about it. Sure, I've seen stuff. Sure, I've heard voices. Sure, I've been told I'm possessed by a demon. (heck, I've even been told I AM a demon haha ) but it doesn't really matter what I'm told. And I could have been hallucinating at the time. The mind is capable of some pretty weird shit. I once went to a church somewhere where there was a guest speaker speaking. I'd never met her before in my life. I didn't really talk to any of the people there and never told them anything going on in my life. At the time, I was cutting my arms and considering suicide. So, when I actually officially met the lady, she looked at me and told me I had a demonic spirit of suicide on me. It's stuff like that that confuses me. How could she know that? Did God tell her? Or was it coincidence, like did I just give off that vibe or whatever? etc. etc. So I go back and forth in my opinion of it.

Ashton - Seriously? How could she know that? You were cutting yourself and considering suicide. It's not difficult for an experienced eye to see someone in distress. The demonic spirit on you was in your head. Not something that came of itself and got into you and took over. You created it from thoughts and images you allowed into your head and allowed it to take over. There's a difference. Demonic thoughts have no power except that which we allow it. Remember this all your life - what you think about expands. Only you have the power to control your own thoughts.

She saw me for like a half second before she made that assertion. That’s what I’m saying. An experienced eye can tell if someone is in distress. (I can even do that.) An experienced eye can’t tell that person various other things about their past in a half a second of seeing them. I made several other posts describing the situation in detail. She was the one who mentioned demonic spirits. Not me. I wasn’t asserting there was one. I was curious as to her method of knowing what was going on and had gone on in my past. I was verbalizing curiosity, not conclusion. (I elaborated on this more in my many later posts on the subject)Of course what I think about, expands. I’m very aware of the power of thoughts. I’m very aware I created a problem in my mind. I’m very aware of the damage I created in my mind. I’m the one who has to deal with the horrible crap that goes on in my mind on a day to day basis which most people don’t know or even care about. They’re too busy trying to tell me that these things I see don’t exist, enough to actually care about possibly changing it for me. I never claimed they were demonic. I ask that you please don’t address me sarcastically: “Ashton-seriously?” , since you are not me and have not experienced what I have experienced in this area and therefore maybe do not have the same questions as I do. I’m not trying to be a jerk. I’m just getting a little tired of ridicule. You don’t even know the full extent of what happened to me, what has happened to me, or even what I was trying to say. I even mentioned several options of what COULD have happened, including the possibility that she just "got that vibe" or was extremely intuitive or w/e. I wasn’t making any sort of conclusions whatsoever. The things I have seen and experienced would have me put in a mental hospital in a heartbeat if I told anyone in the psychiatric field. I just choose not to because I don’t think I’d do much good there. I never said this proved demonic spirits in any way or that it proved that there was a God out there or anything. I was sharing thoughts. Maybe I'm just tired of hearing people tell me how wrong I am instead of caring about what's going on. Please don’t be offended or think I’m attacking you. I’m not. Forgive me if I sound harsh. This is just how I feel.

These people have gained a lot of experience in cold reading in much the same way as fortune tellers. If she noticed your mood and had seen any of your cuts then if she might have had a hunch that she went with. Maybe God did drop an idea in her head that you had considered suicide, then she connected that with her belief in demons and drew the conclusion you had a spirit of suicide.

She saw me for about five seconds before she said that and I was wearing long sleeves. I understand what you're saying. And I know that you believe demons don't exist and that nothing I say will change that. Heck I don't even known what to think about everything. I'm just saying as, being what I've been through, and what I've seen, and heard, and felt...it makes everything that much more confusing...

AshtonFirefly I think its great that you keep your mind open about this, that is a very noble quality. My only comment on your situation would be that whether or not the women really had some divining quality to see a demon beside you, you had one, either literally or figuratively. Other peoples words are meaningless unless we allow them to have meaning in our lives.I hope that you have had some success in overcoming that reactive behavior.I agree very much with your comments.

It may appear very real for them that they are possessed by demons, but that's just a medieval superstition for what is little more than a mental issue.

Why would you listen to a religious speaker who does nothing but fill your head with nonsense? If you were feeling ill, she would probably tell you to use leeches and bloodletting instead of consulting a physician.

You are not possessed by demons. If you're hearing voices, it's probably just you talking to yourself. No problem.

If the voices are telling you to do things like hurt yourself or others, it might just be a mild case of schizophrenia which can be treated.

what explanation could there be for her knowing about the issue with suicide? I'm not arguine for or against either way...just curious if there are other theories about people knowing things they otherewise shouldn't know...And...I don't remember what she spoke about. All I remember is her praying for people. I've had a psychlogist refuse to see me because I wouldn't take medication before I went to see her. She said my symptoms sounded like schitzophrenia and if she attempted to talk to me, it might make it worse. In my head I was thinking, "what does she think I'm gonna do? start screaming and making a scene? I'm not taking some stupid drug on the possible chance I have a mental disorder. ha." lol

There are many ways people find out things, none of them have to do with magical demons and other such nonsense.

Please remember that if a psychologist refuses to see you if you haven't taken your medications, they are only protecting you and themselves from any potential problems. They may not know you won't start screaming and making a scene. Most likely, other patients have done so.

lol I know...about the prescription part. I just hate taking medicine if I don't know what it's going to do, you know? I'm more afraid of taking some random drug I've never taken before than to go to a counseling session. I can control myself when I experience what could be considered hallucinations or whatever. I don't lose it. But I guess she had no way of knowing that.

That's just it...she couldn't have known. No one knew. She was a stranger not only to me but to everyone. She did this for not just me but for many people. She knew things about people's pasts, that they never told any anyone. Ever. I'm not saying that proves God or whatever. I'm just saying...it's weird for me and doesn't make sense.. and I'm curious as to scientific theories which can explain things like that. There's a lot I don't know. I analyze everything.

Whether a scientific explanation is not available immediately still doesn't make it possible that she could know things about people using magical powers. That would be jumping to irrational conclusions.

I didn't say I would come to that conclusion if there isn't one. I said I was curious if there was a scientific explanation that people know of right now for things like that. If there isn't one, then fine. No conclujsions, nothing. Just curious.

Ashton: There are many people that are incredibly intuitive, not to be confused with psychic or divinely driven although they may come across as such, and even they may think that a divine source is providing the information, it feels that way. Intuitive people have the ability to relate characteristics that they note right off in people and situations that tell them something is wrong or something is about to happen, they know these things because they have had past experinces that trigger the inate knowledge. The subconcious stores all experiences that we encounter throughout our life it keeps everything including that which the concious mind throws out as irreleveant, the concious mind has to do this as we are bombarded with stimuli and experiences continually it is more that the concious can process. If the concious mind handled it all it would be a system overload and the computer would crash. Some are very good at tapping into their subconcious either aware or unaware of that ability, it comes across as a magical. The woman you had this experience with could have noticed your tone, your outward appearance, your expressions, the way you carried youself, the way you were dressed, or general vibrance that you either did or did not exude, she may have related these qualities to a person or experience in the past either cognitively, or more likely subconciously. The subconcious often shares in symbols (think of dreams), I am going to go out on a limb and say that demons are fairly symbolic. I would say that if you are looking for a possible sceintfic explanation I think you may have encountered a very experienced wise intuitive woman, you may not even have been aware of how you presented yourself to her, but most of us wear our inner feelings, and thoughts on our sleeve whether we think we are or not. I deal quite a bit in this arena of the subconcious, I am a certified hypnotist by trade, what I have described is very real and can be backed up by sceince. I however find these abilities within our own minds quite stunning, even if it is based on fact it is divine, the human mind is incredible. One of my favorite quotes is from Albert Einstein: "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." I sit on the side of everything sceintific or not being a miracle. Did the interaction with this woman have any affect on you and your circumstance?

I understand what you're saying. But...she saw me for a very few seconds before she said this. She looked only at my eyes. Then she moved on to someone else, saw them for a few seconds seconds, and said the same thing. This was the case for about 15 people. I could understand, if she was simply telling people how they were feeling or of a problem they might have psychologically. I can even tell that within a few seconds of seeing someone. But she knew of specific details in my past, of others' pasts, that they had not shared with her, nor had anyone else. I respect what you're saying though; and if you've dealt with these areasmore extensively, then you probably know more than I do about it But...all these things that you mentioned, don't seem to apply to her given the circumstances. The interaction was that she attempted to "cast out" the"spirit of suicide" which she saw in me. I didn't know what to think about it. I remember that I never really felt any desire to slit my own arms after that, but I know that that could have been the power of suggestion, working. (Like, If I thought it had happened, then I would expect myself to not want to. So I wouldn't want to. Kind of like people who in scientific tests act drunk when they're told that alchohol is in their drink, only to find out later that there was no alchohol in it and they acted that way because they expected it.) I've met alot of intuitive people. I am one and can know exactly what's going on in a person's mind, having just met them, without them telling me, and can even know details about their past in an instant. I don't know how I know it. I just know when I see them. And it's not that I've met someone like that before...the best I can explain is an unexplainable vibe. I knew this about people, and I lived the most sheltered life imaginable. I had literally no friends, no social interaction whatsoever. I was locked in a house six out of seven days of the week and was not given social interaction with anyone. Ever. Yet I still knew details about people's pasts without them telling me, and without having ever encountered anyone with similar issues. I can't even describe to you how socially isolated I was when I started being able to know things about people I shouldn't know. I guess the reason this lady weirded me out is because I am the same way. How do I get the information I get, in my mind? But...what do you think?

Ashton: I generally view all aspects of life as interelated so I do not consider the "sceintific" explanation I provided of the subconcious far separated from "spiritual". For me these things are interrelated. I believe that the woman you encountered still may have been very intuitive, I have witnessed people that are very good at picking up on characteristics and can tell more than you would ever guess from the tiniest of things in very short periods of time, including things about your past, it is also possible that she was able to tap into something else... To your question about knowing things about people without any perceived past experience I will site the superconcious mind, the concept is more than I think I could do justice to in a forum comment but I would suggest that you look into it, I think the awareness of the superconcious mind may be of great comfort to you. I am glad to hear that her interaction with you had a positive affect on the issue you were dealing with, its sounds as if she did speak directly to your subconcious, or perhaps your superconcious to assist in healing. When I say assist she merely presented the idea, guided you to it, or as you stated suggested the thought, you were the one who ultimately made the decision to "get rid of your demon" either literally or figuratively. This does not make the event any less significant in my eyes, choosing to accept a new way of thinking that betters your quality of life is a huge acheivement. I hope that you have since continued on this path of recognizing and seeking options that constantly make your life better, no matterwhat form these new levels of awareness may be presented to you. I hope that my response has made sense, I felt it neccessary to recognize that you have acheived something great. I strongly reccommend that you look into superconcious mind more deeply, I would be very interested to know if you have any thoughts on the matter after you research it. I do caution you however that if you hear voices that are telling you negative thoughts about yourself or others and directing you to harm yourself or others that you should seek help right away. Getting help from spiritual leaders, psychatric, or medical professionals for such issues is still right on the path of continually making things better. You can even consult with a good hypnotist in your area. Depending on the situation a hypnotist can help as a guide and we often work in conjunction very well with other health professionals.

I would second that last paragraph, although from what you describe, and from my knowledge on Demonic Possession, which is somewhat detailed (I did my Masters degree on it), what you are describing sounds completely unconnected to being possessed. Nonetheless, if you are hearing voices or other things which you feel are strange, your first step should be a qualified psychiatrist. Good luck

Thanks for the reply. I'll def do some research into what you call the "superconscious." I've never heard of that. As far as treatment/therapy, etc. It's not all that bad. Only happens every so often. And I can usually just ignore it. Thanks for the insight!

You maybe you check out schizophrenia, it could be a mild form of that? Hopefully not though, I wouldn't want to alarm you! Either way, even if it is only occasionally, it wouldn't hurt to consult a medical professional!

When I spoke one time with a psychiatrist about possibly starting to see her, she told me that my "symptoms" sounded like schitzophrenia...so I'm not too shocked or alarmed to hear that...she wouldn't see me unless I took drugs beforeheand, even without knowing what the problem was, so I never went to see her.

Well that wasn't very good of her! It may be worth trying to find a better psychiatrist. They can be really good, and you certainly do not need to take any drugs to go and talk to them, so disregard what that woman said!

If the demon wants revenge for something that you did to them ... even if it was done by you unintentionally.

the demon wants to drive you in the wrong direction in life, or sometimes just for the fun of it.

someone may have done some kind of magic on you where a demon has been sent to make your life difficult either in the form of an illness or when things just don't seem to get done no matter how hard and how many times you try. in the case of an illness the person should see a doctor first and try all that science has to offer before considering magic being done on you.

lastly the demon may have some kind of affection towards you and may want to stay with you.

Demons feed off fear and suffering. It is essential to their survival. Believe it or not, demons don't want to be in hell. There was a documentary on the Discovery Channel called, "True Horror", that attests to this.

First question for you: What are you doing here on this forum? What attracted you to it?

I looked up the Discovery Channel's documentary, "True Horror: Demons" with Anthony Head investigating whether demons exist or not. Unfortunately, the original with the translation of what the possessed say in English is not available. I could only get hold of a poor version with foreign subtitles. If you don't get irritated easily by poor video quality, watch it. After 5 minutes you will get the point anyway.

Anthony Head, the actor, from Buffy the Vampire Slayer? So, you actually believe television puts out the truth and is not just looking for ratings?

You've got to be joking. All I saw in that video was two people tying down a girl in a chair while some holy man recites his book.

Pure ignorance and cruelty from the religiously brainwashed. Absolutely horrible. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the parents who drove that poor girl insane with their religious garbage. They should be charged with child abuse.

Then you couldn't have seen my comment about the pyramids. Pity...quite a bit of research went into that. The conclusion I got about the aliens bit is not only due to research but by process of elimination. The technology needed to build the pyramids just didn't exist supposedly. The technology to align the pyramids exactly with Orion's Belt is, well, impressive.

Why do you say, "If I am wrong..." and then state, "No, you couldn't possibly be right." Contradiction, much?

Science is not the yardstick for truth. It can't even explain where consciousness came from.

Yet, it is not so impressive to someone who understands math but I can see how it would impress those who don't.

Aliens and evil spirits are your conclusions to phenomena that haven't got a shred of evidence to even suggest either one, yet you want to believe and embrace them as if they're truth. How could you possibly be right?

Yes, it is.

Ah yes, the common error of most believers who turn to fantasy, myths and superstitions for answers when a rational answer isn't staring them in the face.

"I felt transported back in time with these realisations. To the north, I could “see” Vega, Arcturus, the North Celestial Pole and the Great Pyramid. To the west, I was aligned with the north face of Khafre’s pyramid. Turning to the south, I could see the magnificent constellation of Orion nearing its culmination; then, to the east, the constellation of Leo was sitting high enough to clear the sphinx; and beneath my feet, I felt the resting place of the wisdom of ages."

The Earth precesses on it's axis so it is entirely impossible to align anything to the stars and not have it change over time. In 3000 BC, Polaris was NOT the Pole star, it was the star Thuban in the constellation of Draco.

About what you just quoted, he is just imagining. He doesn't think he really is doing it. Shouldn't that be obvious when he says "see"???

Nowhere in the article does the earth's precession not taken into account. It's obvious that the skies change over time.

It clearly acknowledges that the Pole Star did not exist at that time. Vega was in it place at the time the pyramids were built which the author of the article dates 4420 BC. His reasons for that date is compelling.

The Pole Star, or Vega back then, which is the vertex of the pyramid, was once invisible when the pyramids were built but now is visible seemingly in the shape of an eye at the vertex of the pyramid. The Pole Star now represents the capstone of the pyramid. The pyramids were designed so it would be this way now.

The era of enlightenment has begun. Curiously enough, though, the capstone was not put on the Great Pyramid on New Years Eve 1999 because the “time wasn’t right”. Doesn’t it remind you of the eye on the capstone of the pyramid on the US dollar bill?

Actually it is relevant. Just admit you don't know what is wrong with her. You aren't giving me an argument to work with. You just saying that is like me saying, "God exists" and that is not acceptable to you, is it? Since science can prove anything, shouldn't you know what is wrong with her?

I wonder gamergirl... to make such a certain statement, how far have you actually looked into the subject? Have you actually researched anything? Or do you base your views on a couple of hollywood films and a little knowledge through hearsay?

Considering that I base my world view on the substantial evidence provided by personal experience, research, and verifiable knowledge, I would venture to say that the only people basing anything on Hollywood fictions and hearsay are the folk who believe that demons/angels/fairies/ghosts/etc. exist. Silly deluded folks.

Gamergirl hi. Were the Sumerian, Assyrian, Egyptian, Babylonian, and Persians that knew of demons- were they just insane priests and parents that don't parent their children? What are your thoughts on the ancients' beliefs concerning demon possession?

I'd be interested to read even more on the subject, actually, but given that reference to demons has been used in a limited number of senses - all of which are religiously centered to coerce certain behavior, or through hearsay and gossip-threaded accounts, or through works of fiction - you'll just have to indulge me in remaining skeptical and scoffing the concept of demons along with all other manner of fantasy (read: not real) creatures.

Fair enough; your not incorrect in what you say Gamergirl, its just that the scope of demonology and beliefs/experiences are as wide-spread over the non-religious as the religious. The Anneliese Michel 'possession' is a disturbing but intriguing case one can hear on the net. Personally its difficult to accept this tragedy as anything other than something from out-side the young girl. If you've heard them or ever do I'd like to know what you think. They're not for the faint of heart though.

I can't even type about that "possession" without getting horribly angry. That girl was killed by her family and the priests involved. No wonder, either, when you're forced to go through an insane process, denied food or drink, or refusing food or drink. Every person in that situation - mother, father, priests, even the girl herself - is at fault, and religious fanaticism is another contributing factor.

Your experience of the world has nothing to do with demonic possession, I did in depth research on the subject as part of my masters degree and your arguments whilst true in some cases only skirt the edge of demonic possession. Possession is more widely reported problem now than it has ever been, and not something which you can fling aside as adolescent issues. I have written two hubs on possession, I suggest you read them so that you can apply a little more factual knowledge to your arguments.

Finally, last I checked, membership duration on hubpages does not make you an expert on any field so I'd appreciate it if you reeled in the patronising tone.

You devoted a portion of your master's degree program to the study of fictional evils and their relation to reality? Interesting use of time. I mean that. Fantasy creatures must have been a lovely break from other more applicable and important coursework.

Nowhere in my prior response to you did I imply that my length of time on HubPages made me an expert on anything, but I'd say that almost 30 years on earth, and most of that spent studying religion when I wasn't devoted to other (far more important and relevant) studies or pursuits, gives me a pretty expert view on the real world and what goes on in it. Science helps fill in the gaps otherwise.

Gamergirl, I appreciate your point of view or rather I appreciate your arguments, and they may very well be right. If you have read my hubs, you will see that I do not state blindly that demonic possession is real, and I also separate my arguments from my religious belief.

My method of approach is that I have tried to find answers to everything medically, psychologically or anything else that would get rid of the supernatural answer. However, there are some cases where it would seem that supernatural might have to be the answer.

In the case of Anneliese Michel, you must remember that before she ever underwent an exorcism, she had medical and psychiatric help, to no avail. This of course proves nothing - but if your daughter had become like that and no medical help would work for her, I am sure you would try what you could.

I cannot say whether or not that was a demonic possession or a result of social upbringing, I do not know, and nor does anybody. And I would also state, as I do in one of my hubs, that I am almost certain, if demonic possession were in fact real, that 99.99% of the cases would be fake/not real at the very least.

There is recorded footage of exorcisms, where things just cannot be explained, again as I show in my hub. And it is that which interests me.

The part of my masters degree was obviously not centered on fantasy or fiction, but as a history masters, I looked at witchcraft in the 16th to 18th centuries and further to that, I decided to specialize in demonic possession because it is an interesting subject. I was also fortunate enough to have the world's leading authority (who is an atheist) on the subject lecture me for a few lectures, and I can assure you he came up with some interesting stuff.

Finally, I reaffirm the fact that I am not telling you or anyone that Demonic Possession is real, only that it should be considered. It would be naive to throw a notion out the window just because it seems to surpass the limits of the human mind.

I cannot prove God, I cannot prove demonic possession, and I myself am unsure whether I believe in either. But for the latter, sometimes when you have exhausted all other possibilities, you have to accept that the simplest answer that is staring you in the face, might well be the real answer.

That is the usual problem believers have when they come to conclusions based on their beliefs. Rather than just saying they don't know, they instead embrace answers that are pure fantasy in light of not having a rational answer in front of them, even if a rational answer is most likely available.

That could well be the truth in Michel's case and it certainly falls under the category of religiosity. I can't blame you for not wanting to listen to the audiotapes but bear in mind the poor girl's situation before the insane process began. What caused the unfortunate process to begin. There's a good deal more to that story than whats on the surface. But again gamergirl, your take could be the correct one after all.

There are so many people that read the forums here that do no believe in God or Satan, and for them I worry, for I know what you are speaking of is real. When I was a young girl I went to church in a place that...