I'd wonder when we'll see support for Windows 8 phones and tablets. Probably before we'll see support for Android devices.

Actually Windows 8 does not support Encrypted HLS, which is what the Stream currently uses. There is a 3rd party SDK that you can use to add it to a Windows 8 app but it was only released at NAB back in April, so even if they are using that SDK and started immediately after it was released development would still be lagging behind Android.

Give it another year or two, and you will see Android tablets everywhere. Like the iPhone dominating the smartphone market for a few years, the iPad has dominated for a few years. However, times a 'changing.

iPhone marketshare is actually increasing in the USA.

If you look at the numbers from the big carriers it is typically something like 50% iPhone, 45% Android and 5% other.

The short version is android tablets out sold IOS tablets by over 2 to 1 in the last quarter.

TiVo wake up and get support for android.

The link you posted is global sales most of which are irrelevant to TiVo. If you read up the thread a little you can see a post showing that tablet use in the US is not only dominated by iOS but that the iOS share is actually increasing. Android tablet users are a shrinking minority in the US!

American Android users either don't actually use their devices for some reason in which case there is no point in TiVo chasing them or Android sales are still only really significant outside the US. You might want to deal with that instead of keeping your fingers crossed.

The link you posted is global sales most of which are irrelevant to TiVo. If you read up the thread a little you can see a post showing that tablet use in the US is not only dominated by iOS but that the iOS share is actually increasing. Android tablet users are a shrinking minority in the US!

American Android users either don't actually use their devices for some reason in which case there is no point in TiVo chasing them or Android sales are still only really significant outside the US. You might want to deal with that instead of keeping your fingers crossed.

That article did not say that android sales where outside the US. In fact it did not talk about sales at all and the only article about sales it linked to again showed Android tablets significantly outselling IOS tablets.

Also the usage data was based on online ad impressions through the Chitika Ad Network, which does nothing to tell me or anyone else if android tablet owners want to stream video from their TiVos onto their tablets.

The reality is very simple for new tablet sales Android is significantly out selling IOS and there are now more Android tablets in use than IOS ones. Any company that only supports IOS tablets is writing off the majority of the tablet market.

That article did not say that android sales where outside the US. In fact it did not talk about sales at all and the only article about sales it linked to again showed Android tablets significantly outselling IOS tablets.

Also the usage data was based on online ad impressions through the Chitika Ad Network, which does nothing to tell me or anyone else if android tablet owners want to stream video from their TiVos onto their tablets.

The reality is very simple for new tablet sales Android is significantly out selling IOS and there are now more Android tablets in use than IOS ones. Any company that only supports IOS tablets is writing off the majority of the tablet market.

So why don't Android users actually use their devices then, can you explain? It only takes a few clicks to find more sources for usage statistics that show Android use is bizarrely low. It's pointless linking because you think global sales are all that matters. It's the same story with revenue on the app stores.

Add on the fragmentation of Android tablets and the variation in performance and quality of those devices and it just looks hopeless. I work for a software company and guess why we only develop for iOS? Yes that's right - none of our customers have expressed an interest in Android. Nobody uses the freaking things!

FWIW I think people buy Kindles and Nooks to read books and the rest of Android tablet sales are price driven and the people who buy them just aren't heavy users.

So why don't Android users actually use their devices then, can you explain? It only takes a few clicks to find more sources for usage statistics that show Android use is bizarrely low. It's pointless linking because you think global sales are all that matters. It's the same story with revenue on the app stores.

Add on the fragmentation of Android tablets and the variation in performance and quality of those devices and it just looks hopeless. I work for a software company and guess why we only develop for iOS? Yes that's right - none of our customers have expressed an interest in Android. Nobody uses the freaking things!

FWIW I think people buy Kindles and Nooks to read books and the rest of Android tablet sales are price driven and the people who buy them just aren't heavy users.

Last time I looked buying and reading books is a primary function of a tablet or are you saying any usage that isn't trackable by some add network doesn't count?

I still pretty much use a computer to surf the web and block as many adds and trackers as possible. Until I can easily do the same with my tablet I will continue to limit surfing the web with it. In any event add tracking isn't going to tell anyone if people are interested in using their Android tablets to stream shows from their TiVos or not.

I looked for US only sales and could not find any recent data. If you have links to recent US only sales point to them otherwise stop trying to say something is a fact that you have no facts to support.

Last time I looked buying and reading books is a primary function of a tablet or are you saying any usage that isn't trackable by some add network doesn't count?

I still pretty much use a computer to surf the web and block as many adds and trackers as possible. Until I can easily do the same with my tablet I will continue to limit surfing the web with it. In any event add tracking isn't going to tell anyone if people are interested in using their Android tablets to stream shows from their TiVos or not.

I looked for US only sales and could not find any recent data. If you have links to recent US only sales point to them otherwise stop trying to say something is a fact that you have no facts to support.

Reading books isn't streaming video from a DVR. Is it? I'm saying that people who buy a device to read books are not necessarily going to be in the market for streaming from a TiVo. Not least because nooks and kindles have their own content ecosystems tied to Amazon and Barnes and Noble.

You telling me that even you don't like using your Android device is about the nadir of this particular discussion and sums things up nicely. Guess what type of device I'm typing this on (and which I just streamed video on)?

TiVo is a business. They know their market. They don't support Android in the same way they are reassessing their support for Comcast on demand. Not enough return on investment.

I don't even understand your last paragraph. It's not me who is concerned about sales. It was you who indicated Android sales like it is meant to mean something.

Reading books isn't streaming video from a DVR. Is it? I'm saying that people who buy a device to read books are not necessarily going to be in the market for streaming from a TiVo. Not least because nooks and kindles have their own content ecosystems tied to Amazon and Barnes and Noble.

You telling me that even you don't like using your Android device is about the nadir of this particular discussion and sums things up nicely. Guess what type of device I'm typing this on (and which I just streamed video on)?

TiVo is a business. They know their market. They don't support Android in the same way they are reassessing their support for Comcast on demand. Not enough return on investment.

I don't even understand your last paragraph. It's not me who is concerned about sales. It was you who indicated Android sales like it is meant to mean something.

Ok so for some reason you believe people using tablets for something other than surfing the web are not interested in streaming video from their TiVos to there tablets . The fact that I want to limit surfing the web with my tablet has no baring on if I want to use my tablet to stream or side load video from my TiVos to my tablet.

Which brings me back to my original post about this subject. There has been a major shift in tablet sales in the last year from IOS tablets being the vast majority to Android now being the majority. If you don't think that warrants TiVo supporting what is now and will likely be the major tablet platform for the foreseeable future that is your business and we can agree to disagree.

Ok so for some reason you believe people using tablets for something other than surfing the web are not interested in streaming video from their TiVos to there tablets . The fact that I want to limit surfing the web with my tablet has no baring on if I want to use my tablet to stream or side load video from my TiVos to my tablet.

Which brings me back to my original post about this subject. There has been a major shift in tablet sales in the last year from IOS tablets being the vast majority to Android now being the majority. If you don't think that warrants TiVo supporting what is now and will likely be the major tablet platform for the foreseeable future that is your business and we can agree to disagree.

My rather obvious point is that people just don't use Android devices for much of anything. You even agreed with me and said that you don't even like using yours. Don't blame you and at least you are honest.

I linked to usage statistics which you indicated we're irrelevant. You quote sales figures and then criticise me for not posting anything to back up those sales figures. For some reason.

I'm sure Android will be supported eventually and it will be a nightmare. Some devices will work some won't and TiVo will be lambasted for not satisfying everyone again.

The link you posted is global sales most of which are irrelevant to TiVo. If you read up the thread a little you can see a post showing that tablet use in the US is not only dominated by iOS but that the iOS share is actually increasing. Android tablet users are a shrinking minority in the US!

American Android users either don't actually use their devices for some reason in which case there is no point in TiVo chasing them or Android sales are still only really significant outside the US. You might want to deal with that instead of keeping your fingers crossed.

That link is for tablet web usage. Not for the number of users of Android tablets. Two different things.

Personally I have several Android tablets, but most of my usage is from my local network, not usage on the web. Now the Android device where I have a lot of web usage is from my cell phone.

So Android users don't surf the web but do everything else that iPad users do and you believe that despite not actually having any evidence? What is your theory on why TiVo doesn't support Android then? Don't you think they do market research including keeping track of the number of actual users of their iOS and Android apps?

So Android users don't surf the web but do everything else that iPad users do and you believe that despite not actually having any evidence? What is your theory on why TiVo doesn't support Android then? Don't you think they do market research including keeping track of the number of actual users of their iOS and Android apps?

I have no theory on that. I was pointing out that your link has nothing to do with ownership numbers of Apple or Android tablets. Only the web usage of the tablets.

And streaming from the TiVo to the tablet is not web usage.

I've already accepted the fact that stream is probably not coming to Android. So that is less money that TiVo gets from me. Which is why I bought a Slingbox 350 when they were released last year. At least this way I can use it to watch content when away from home as well.

Although if streaming is built in to the six tuner TiVo, it will end up being a wasted feature for me without Android support.

I have no theory on that. I was pointing out that your link has nothing to do with ownership numbers of Apple or Android tablets. Only the web usage of the tablets.

And streaming from the TiVo to the tablet is not web usage.

I've already accepted the fact that stream is probably not coming to Android. So that is less money that TiVo gets from me. Which is why I bought a Slingbox 350 when they were released last year. At least this way I can use it to watch content when away from home as well.

Although if streaming is built in to the six tuner TiVo, it will end up being a wasted feature for me without Android support.

To be honest I think Stream support will come to Android at some point but it might not be as nice an implementation as on iOS or as widely used.

I've been looking for articles on the Android usage discrepancy with Apple devices. It's not just my little theory or argument on here for the sake of it. I think the following two links cover the topic in a straightforward way...

That article did not say that android sales where outside the US. In fact it did not talk about sales at all and the only article about sales it linked to again showed Android tablets significantly outselling IOS tablets.

Also the usage data was based on online ad impressions through the Chitika Ad Network, which does nothing to tell me or anyone else if android tablet owners want to stream video from their TiVos onto their tablets.

The reality is very simple for new tablet sales Android is significantly out selling IOS and there are now more Android tablets in use than IOS ones. Any company that only supports IOS tablets is writing off the majority of the tablet market.

Well, with the rise of android tablets comes the rise of fragmentation:

I think everyone here (myself included) would love to see android support for stream. But how many people would vote for android support if not all devices are covered?

If you get beat up for having no android support and then you release support and 20-30% of the devices can't run the program, all you are doing is pushing up your support costs.

Let's not look at this as "release stream for android and we're done." Instead you have to think about the bigger picture. For thousands of apps, there is probably no issue with the compatibility or support, but the more complicated apps that draw from a variety of systems will be more challenging.

While I do not know of a technical issue that is holding this back I can think of a lot of business reasons why this has not happened yet.

The notion that you have to support 100% of the android versions and 100% of the screen sizes or you can't do anything in android is gibberish.

Netflix did a slow roll-out for Android, supporting only specific devices at first. They did it again for tablets when honeycomb came out.

Their android team is not 3x the size of their iOS team because Android is harder to develop for... it's because iOS has a smaller amount of hardware to test on.

It would be trivial for TiVo to roll out a version that only runs on a specific set of devices and add support over time to additional devices.

If they aren't doing it, it's because the stream is a dead product, not because of any notion about the development cycle or lack of market share. It's because the stream is not selling enough units to justify expanding the list of mobile devices it works on.

It would be trivial for TiVo to roll out a version that only runs on a specific set of devices and add support over time to additional devices.

My favorite claims are these- "its only a small change", or "a minor tweak in functionality".

If it were that easy, I'm sure it would have been done already. By easy, I mean both technically and through customer acceptance. I'm not sure why the delays, but my personal guess is we will have a lot of tivo news in the fall, this included.

If they aren't doing it, it's because the stream is a dead product, not because of any notion about the development cycle or lack of market share. It's because the stream is not selling enough units to justify expanding the list of mobile devices it works on.

There is a strong indication that the next gen hardware, due out in a couple months, will have Stream capabilities built right into the box. So the standalone Stream hardware might be dead, but it seems TiVo is doubling down on the capability so app development should move forward.

TiVo has never been known for being quick about anything so while I personally don't think it should take this long to get an Android app out there, it doesn't surprise me that it's taking this long.

Netflix, hulu, hbo2go, shogo, cinmax numerous others stream video to a very wide variety of android devices. So the development differences between ios and android ring very hollow. I to was a very successful systems programmer in my time. The excuses are flat. The newest green of android devices out preform any ios device.

...which is linked to from the article above is much more relvant to TiVo's plight with Android. They already have an Android app, so they've presumably dealt with the UI issues related to a multitude of screen sizes. However the broken implimentation of HLS in Android is a major problem. The Stream currently uses encrypted HLS as it's method for serving video to the iPad app. If even the most recent versions of Android do not fully support HLS tha means TiVo has to change the Stream to support an alternate protocol for Android. That is much more difficult then just writing an Android app to play the video they already have. That's a major redesign of the entire system. I had previously read that HLS was fully supported in Android 4.0+, so I assumed they were just going to write e app to only support those devices with 4.0+. But if the implimentation is broken even in those devices then they'd have to go with something completely different which could explain why it's taking so long to accomplish.

The Stream currently uses encrypted HLS as it's method for serving video to the iPad app. If even the most recent versions of Android do not fully support HLS tha means TiVo has to change the Stream to support an alternate protocol for Android. That is much more difficult then just writing an Android app to play the video they already have. That's a major redesign of the entire system.

It's clear that it's easier in iOS than Android, and that it the excuse that these various companies are providing. The fact is that it is possible even if it requires sourcing the right companies and individuals to do it.

The responsibility for creating a device so heavily reliant upon the HLS protocol that isn't a standard (yet) and only supports one operating system falls on TiVo leadership. Perhaps they need to bring in someone with more long term vision since their past decisions are very iOS centric creating an inflexibility in response to market changes.

You have to remember that the design decisions for the Stream where likely made at least a year before it's release, which mean mid 2011. At the time the market share for Android tablets hadn't even hit double digits yet. Plus ICS was just about to be released and it promised support for HLS. There is no way for them to know that the HLS support would broken and still unusable 2 years later.

So looking at it from the perspective of someone designing a product in 2011 it makes perfect sense that they would chose HLS. It's easy to use, supported by all Apple devices (which dominated the market at the time), and contained an encryption protocol approved by CableLabs.

The only way they could have known it was a bad choice was if they had employed a psychic or invented a time machine first.

You have to remember that the design decisions for the Stream where likely made at least a year before it's release, which mean mid 2011. At the time the market share for Android tablets hadn't even hit double digits yet. Plus ICS was just about to be released and it promised support for HLS. There is no way for them to know that the HLS support would broken and still unusable 2 years later.

So looking at it from the perspective of someone designing a product in 2011 it makes perfect sense that they would chose HLS. It's easy to use, supported by all Apple devices (which dominated the market at the time), and contained an encryption protocol approved by CableLabs.

The only way they could have known it was a bad choice was if they had employed a psychic or invented a time machine first.

To be fair, the iPad was just released mid-2010, and Android 3.0 tablet support was released mid-2011. Of course there were no real competitors to the iPad mid 2011, but the signs were clear that there would be an Android competitor. At that time, just looking at the iPhone vs Android trends, it was not difficult to see what would happen after a few years. For those that remember, this has happened before in Mac vs PC...

I know Tivo had to make decisions based on what was known at the time, but they put all their eggs in the iOS basket. Best decision in the short term? Yes. Best decision after that? Absolutely not.

They also have to consider what CableLabs would approve for this. Encrypted HLS is an accepted standard for CableLabs. Anything else would have required some sort of custom encryption scheme that they would have run through the certification process. That's expensive and time consuming.

To be fair, the iPad was just released mid-2010, and Android 3.0 tablet support was released mid-2011. Of course there were no real competitors to the iPad mid 2011, but the signs were clear that there would be an Android competitor.

Well, I'm not sure how clear that was in 2011, honeycomb was slooow and buggy; nobody purchased the Xoom in volumes anywhere close to expectations. It took until Ice Cream Sandwich for these to have the smoothness necessary to gain market acceptance.

I agree. I think TiVo went with a format they thought, at the time, would become a standard and supported on all platforms. Now two years later it's still not fully supported on Android so they're forced to redesign the whole product or implement a 3rd party SDK to get it to work. That's a much bigger task then they intended so it's understandable that it's taking longer then expected. If HLS was fully supported in Android like it should be then TiVo probably would have Stream support available by now.

That being said there are 3rd party SDKs for both Android and Win8 that add real encrypted HLS support, so this is all possible to accomplish without having to redesign the Stream's core functionality. Although I guess the viability of those SDKs really depends on their licensing terms. If they have a price per seat then it may force TiVo to start charging for the app on those platforms, and I'm not sure that would make users very happy.