Just having a discussion and a Surah was brought up, in regard to it's violent intentions.

Surah 8:12 - Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.

The Surah was later revealed not to be describing what should happen to unbelievers, but rather what Allah was saying would happen to the Meccans they were fighting in the Battle of Badr. I don't know if they were fighting because of religious persecution by the Meccans or what, but it seems this verse was excused as not being relevant to the topic.

I don't carry around a notebook with all of the violent Quranic vurses, and I don't really feel the need to. I think all of the old religions are faith based nonsense, but I don't know if I can necessarily say they are as violent as we make them out to be.

Are there any inexcusable verses in the Quran that you guys have in your notebooks? Ones that if we studied them, they would turn up to simply be violent and evil? Thanks for the help folks.

(29-02-2012 05:26 PM)DeepThought Wrote: The religion and the believers are two separate things...
Compare Christians in the dark ages to the Christians we have around now. It's still the same religion. The people/culture has changed.

With Islam it seems to depend on what country your talking about. Some a far more violent than others. I'd include things like do they kill 'adulterers' and 'witches' in my assessment of violence.

I was looking for specific verses that support violent action against other religions/people.

(29-02-2012 05:26 PM)DeepThought Wrote: The religion and the believers are two separate things...
Compare Christians in the dark ages to the Christians we have around now. It's still the same religion. The people/culture has changed.

With Islam it seems to depend on what country your talking about. Some a far more violent than others. I'd include things like do they kill 'adulterers' and 'witches' in my assessment of violence.

Besides people and culture, politics is important.
In a country where most citizens are Christians, they see Islam as the enemy and try to sell the idea of them being violent and dangerous.

I think same thing happens in countries where Muslims are majority: to them, Christians are the infidels, the dangerous ones.

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Let me be clearer: the verses that you are talking about, the ones that you said would cause much violence if the Christians actually adhered to them, what are they?

If it is a obscure verse with multiple interpretations, it is irrelevant to my post.

I am looking for irrefutably violent verses, that can not be interpreted in a way that makes them harmless in modern society.

For example, if a verse like, "Muslims must kill the people of all other religions, because their God's are not Allah." existed, that would be irrefutably violent and harmful. A Muslim must adhere to that if they are taking their Quran seriously.

I realize there is a very good chance these verses exist, yet I am really lazy and I don't want to search through the Quran to find them. I figure if anyone here has them written on the palm of their hand, they could simply relinquish the information to me.

There is no such thing as 'irrefutably violent verses'. It comes down to interpretation and context.

The interpretation/context changes constantly depending on what point you try to make. Sounds like your intention is to use scripture to argue with theists. Don't waste your time. It's possible to explain away anything by simply making up a back-story that can't be proven or falsified.

New interpretations can be made up at a whim. It's like building a sand castle in a hurricane.

Given that you are lazy it makes this even more pointless. You try debating a Muslim on the Koran and some Muslim apologist scholar types will laugh and say 'you don't know Arabic' You must know Arabic to truly understand the Koran. Also you need a doctorate in philosophy otherwise you couldn't know anything and all your points are automatically wrong.

So... Whats the point?

(29-02-2012 09:42 PM)ElectricEthan Wrote: Let me be clearer: the verses that you are talking about, the ones that you said would cause much violence if the Christians actually adhered to them, what are they?

Well one of the ones I was thinking about was about stoning your disobedient child. I wasn't the most obedient. The crusades don't happen anymore but they are justified in scripture. Your too lazy to use Google and I'm too lazy to use Google for you.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss

Same god is same, and the religions aren’t any better.
It says in the bible that you should do this, so people bend it to mean what they want.
It says the same thing in the Koran, the same kind of people bend it to mean the thing that they want.
It says in the Koran (so I’ve been told) “you should never beat a woman, even with a flower” yet some go at them with whatever is at hand.
It says in the bible “you should love thy neighbour” but little of that happens ether.
Two sides of the same coin, it’s the coin that is the problem.

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. Friedrich Nietzsche