The Unforgettables: Ramesh Sippy and Karan Johar talk about the key to become a filmmaker

The Unforgettables: Ramesh Sippy and Karan Johar talk about the key to become a filmmaker

Filmmakers Ramesh Sippy and Karan Johar are both inheritors who have built on
their legacy.

advertisement

India Today

December 16, 2017

ISSUE DATE: December 25, 2017

UPDATED: December 16, 2017 11:29 IST

Filmmakers Ramesh Sippy and Karan Johar. Photo: Rachit Goswami

Ramesh Sippy is the celebrated filmmaker of Sholay, the wholesome entertainer which even 42 years after its release is still beloved by many, including India Today readers, who cited it as one of their all-time favourites in the last Mood of the Nation poll. Karan Johar, apart from being a writer-director and talk show host, runs Dharma Productions, one of the biggest studios in Bollywood that has given breaks to filmmakers and actors. Both are inheritors who have built on their legacy.

Karan Johar: Ramesh ji, I was asked at an event why I have a disdain for the term 'Bollywood'? So I said we are not a poor cousin of the international fraternity which is called Hollywood. We have an individuality. So they asked what should we be called? I said we should be called Sholay (1975).

Ramesh Sippy: (Laughs)

KJ: We are the country that made the most iconic film. Now I sit across you in India Today TV's show called Unforgettables. And this is truly an unforgettable moment for me because it's a film that defines our cinema. It's a film we are still trying to get over, but can't. Every milestone comes and goes but we just cannot let go off Sholay (1975). As a cinema student and as a big fan, how do you deal with this pressure?

RS: Thank you, Karan. Since I missed an opportunity to be with you on Koffee with Karan, I am very happy to be here on Unforgettables. So, the eternal question, how do I deal with it? I can't deny it's a bit of a burden. But it's a very pleasant one. If you have been crowned and you don't know what to do with it and it refuses to go away-you have to own it.

KJ: And you don't have a predecessor who needs to take over. I'm sure you are waiting for somebody to come and take this from you, like a handover.

(Both laugh)

RS: We have so many talented movie-makers today. You are one of those fabulous guys. But there is something I need to tell you before I get back to that. Before filmmaking, I went to London (the London School of Economics) to learn some business, came back in six months and started following my father. The first production we had was with I.S. Johar.

KJ: Right, he is an uncle of mine.

RS: But what you don't know is that when I worked on that production, your father Yash Johar was its executive producer.

KJ: Oh really? So we have one thing in common. We have both worked under my father.

(Both laugh out loud)

KJ: Well, I did not have the opportunity to work under your father who I have heard was an astute man. That is one thing I am very proud of, sir, that we have had astute men as our fathers who kind of drove the production house. I believe, your father, the respected G.P. Sippy, was a force to reckon with. My father has told me innumerable stories-about his dynamism, his instinct about a film, the way he spoke his heart and his candid nature. Do you have anything that you want to share with us?

RS: Even at 90 just put the music on and he'd begin dancing. And he'd get all the youngsters on the floor.

KJ: So the spirit was intact.

RS: It was that undying spirit that took him through life. He was a real entrepreneur, a real go-getter. At the idea of Sholay itself, he said, 'Yeah, this is going to be the biggest hit.' He actually said that the film will run for five years.

KJ: So he was prophetic about it!

RS: He never said it for anything else.

KJ: Ironically, I saw it in its sixth year. I saw it in 1979 in Minerva [cinema hall in Mumbai] on Sunday at 3 pm and went back to see it at 9 pm on the same day because I cried my heart out to see it again. My mother thought I was mad. So then my parents took me back to Minerva and I went to school late the next day but I saw Sholay. Twice. My father told me G.P. Sippy knew his commercial act.

RS: He was very forthright and he reacted instantly. If he didn't like a film, he'd fall asleep.

(Both laugh)

KJ: They said if Gulshan Rai, the prolific producer, fell asleep during a film, it would be a hit. Everybody would wait for him to fall asleep. I remember Yash Chopra told me that when Gulshan fell asleep in Kabhie Kabhie (1976), Amitabh Bachchan and he stood up and started clapping. There is another thing we have in common. We both started directing at 25. (Both high-five)

RS: I was lucky to work with the best actors, character actors-things always fell in place. You tell me, when is that moment in a filmwhen you think this is it or I have done good?

KJ: There was one moment in Kuch Kuch Hota Hai (1998)where Shah Rukh and Kajol meet after eight years. There is awkwardness and they have a gesture-a clap and nose flick-from college. I didn't rehearse the scene and I said I'm just going to play the sad version of the title track. Shah Rukh said let's rehearse once and I don't know why I asked the guy to roll the camera. The actors had no idea. I had an instinct they would do something special. At the end of that take, I knew I had it.

At that point I turned to my mother, who was sitting beside me, and said I think my film is going to be a big hit but don't tell anyone. It was not arrogance though. It was a filmmaker connecting with his material. That was the only time. After that, the instinct dies, the vulnerability dies, the innocence completely gets squashed. We are left with logic, emotional manipulations, logistics and calculations.

I want to ask you something. It's blasphemous for me to say this but I enjoyed Shaan (1980) more than Sholay. And I love Sholay. But some films get you the love and some do the numbers. It happened with me for Kabhi Alvida Na Kehna (KANK, 2006). I know I went into a bit of a shell. So how did you deal with it after Shaan released? Shaan wasn't rejected but at that time it was compared to Sholay.

RS: Shaan was a disappointment. Somewhere when you know a film is going to do good, but you also know that it misses something. It's instinctive. Somewhere I took a chance. I knew it is fabulous to look at but I also knew some connection was missing. The question mark was there in my mind and when the news came in, I was not in the least surprised. But it wasn't a flop.

KJ: The music is still iconic. It was maybe a little ahead of its time. So it probably missed the syntax. I remember during KANK, someone asked me, how are you endorsing infidelity? I said, "How can you endorse something that is already sold out?" Every one is a victim of it, if not in it. We all become moral police when we are cinegoers. Because you don't want cinema to be a reflection of you. You want it to be an aspiration. The moment it touches too close home, it hurts.

RS: Tell me, what are you going to be doing that is going to break the path again?

KJ: I think we are in the midst of a revolution. Being the mothership of entertainment on one hand and slowly also becoming the stepchild by cutting down budgets. The next step I'm taking is that I'm going the digital television way. Even you did great television with Buniyaad (1986).

RS: Digital television is the way ahead. They are taking the chance.

KJ: Yes, they are pushing and tearing the envelope.

RS: It is a never-ending arena. As long as you do it well.

KJ: Do you cringe when you watch TV serials today?

RS: I stay away.

KJ: Suddenly everybody is aware of nepotism in the industry. Sir, you and I could also be called products of nepotism. Then your son and probably my children. What is your take?

RS: I would concede that probably it has been a man's world. But I can see changes. Isn't it natural that if you have a legacy, you'll carry it forward? It works in industries other than the movies too.

KJ: I agree that it is a phenomenon that exists. But we have Shah Rukh Khan, Deepika Padukone, Ranveer Singh, so many of them. But no one is successful only on that basis. It's only a kickstart. What is your big take back from the movies?

RS: A very rich experience of people, turning difficult corners, dealing with situations and that it is going to go on.

KJ: The one thing that I learnt really early was that kill your ego but hold on to your self-respect and you will be a filmmaker. Once you have dealt with the fraternity and handled their egos, you become a master at people management.

Get real-time alerts and all the news on your phone with the all-new India Today app. Download from