I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits. It needs to stop.

Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.

I think there should be required training and registration before you can exercise your Right to free speech. Otherwise, we end up with an effing shooting gallery of untrained asswits. It needs to stop.

I drunk what:WhippingBoy: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I understand people wanting to place the blame on an inanimate object. For most of us, it's hard to grasp the idea that a human can be capable of killing children. But at the end of the day, it was a very sick and twisted person that killed all those children.

If the only thing available to him was, say, a spoon, do you think he would have been able to kill as many people?

we should ban spoons

then everyone will be safe

Available to him is not the same as is legal to own. Guns are available whether they are legal or not.

inner ted:MythDragon: inner ted: cause you are making my case - certain aspects of firearms are only for war fighting / hunting people & don't have a reason among the general public.

And guess what...we don't have them. It takes some SERIOUS paperwork/background check/expenses to own a M-16 or an AK-74.Now a single fire only weapon that LOOKS like a M-16 or AK varient is NOT the same thing as what it looks like. You can slap a Ferrari body kit on a Corolla, and while it now looks dangerous, it doesn't go any faster.

i realize thisbut the point remains the same: certain aspects of firearms are reserved only for military / cops

currently it is limited as you point out

i suggest including high capacity mags to this

or, in car terms: you can take a corolla and add nitrous & indeed it goes faster

False analogy. The correct analogy is that you can put a bigger gas tank on a Corolla so it can drive farther.

And expanded mag doesn't make a gun more powerful. If I had a 2000 bullet mag for a 0.22, it won't shoot through steel plates.

cryinoutloud:But I also notice that people like you have already come up with "anti-gun" to describe people who'd like some better rules for how and who owns guns

The amusing part is that all the things the anti-gun people suggest regarding gun ownership are already in place. People who have committed crimes or are crazy are not allowed to buy, own, carry or possess guns.

The shooter in this case owned zero guns. He killed a gun owner and took her guns.

The real issue is that the kid's parents refused to have their kid declared crazy, despite knowing he was crazy. The secondary issue is that we don't execute crazy people like we should.

megarian:In rare cases, one should be able to deny someone a gun base on looks alone. If this chick walked into your store and wanted a gun, wouldn't you take one look at her and think, "mmmno...no no... Just no. "

/kidding//kind of

In all cases, anyone should be allowed to deny sale of anything to anyone.

you have pee hands:vegasj: Not really. Why do you wish to look past the fact they are all medicated? Perhaps wrongly medicated even?

I may have misinterpreted your point. If so, sorry. A lot of people are wringing their hands and blaming spree shootings on the state of US mental health medical care or the fact that crazy people are getting access to guns, when that had nothing to do with this case at all. The kid was clearly crazy but he came from a family well off enough to afford mental health care and he didn't buy the guns so a psychological background check for weapons purchase wouldn't have mattered either.

Agree. The left is trying to argue that there isn't enough medical accessibility, but the fact is that there is an overflowing amount available, but people ignore it or refuse to use it.

Carn:I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

Events in the UK and China have proven your coworker is correct and you are wrong.

Just because you choose to ignore facts and reality does not make the reality you constructed in your mind real.

Teach your little shiats that picking on kids in school is dangerous to their lives, that every time they shove them into a locker, laugh at them, make fun of their clothing, or call them poor, they're getting one step closer to that kid snapping.

I learned that in high school. The freshmen were always picked on on the bus. I sat the furthest back of the freshmen usually and therefore got the most abuse. I tried the whole ignore them and it will go away thing and it didn't really work. One day I just turned around quietly and calmly and said "You know what they say about those kids who shot up Columbine, they were quiet and picked on until they decided not to take it anymore."

inner ted:GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that. There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same. It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help

High Capacity = ?Semi-auto=majority of firearmsRifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.

vegasj:Not really. Why do you wish to look past the fact they are all medicated? Perhaps wrongly medicated even?

I may have misinterpreted your point. If so, sorry. A lot of people are wringing their hands and blaming spree shootings on the state of US mental health medical care or the fact that crazy people are getting access to guns, when that had nothing to do with this case at all. The kid was clearly crazy but he came from a family well off enough to afford mental health care and he didn't buy the guns so a psychological background check for weapons purchase wouldn't have mattered either.

CruJones:Wow, a semi-automatic? Those should be banned! All guns should hold one bullet max.

/even shotguns are semi-auto often

Fail in Human Form:Carn: Fail in Human Form: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.

It's obviously not the body count that bothers you. Many more people die of a multitude of preventable things every year, so what is it about firearms that pushes your panic button?

Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me. Oh and maybe the fact that we're talking about little kids. Who says I'm not in favor of preventing whatever other preventable deaths you are imagining?

Then why single out firearms ownership, a constitutionally protected right? How about we ban all fast food and you fight as hard for that as you're fighting against guns rights? It would save far many more lives every year.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, its not about lives for these people, its about guns and thats all. They just want guns gone. They have this ingrained fear of the things. These are the same people who get panicked if they see a gun just sitting on a table. Just the presence of the inanimate object is enough to scare them, like its some predator thats going to jump up and attack without warning.

They are just as bad, maybe even worse, that the super pro-gun wackos. Equal amounts of derp, opposite ends of the spectrum. Both ends are nothing more than activists with agendas. They dont want fair, they just want their way.