mgb519 wrote:See, my issue with abortion lies not with the idea of giving the woman a say in the matter, but in the fact that it is also applicable to people who had sex of their own volition without bothering to use any form of birth control and are too selfish to hold any responsibility. I think we should tax the people who had a child out of their own stupidity, and beyond that it's everyone's own choice.

Let's start with your parents hurr hurr hurr

As soon as you can figure out a way to do this that doesn't sound like "I'm sorry Ms. Roe, you don't have enough evidence to prove he held a gun to your head and snuggled you brutally, so we're restraining you for the next nine months in the interest of the child," you go ahead and do that. Abortions aren't cheap in any case, so the tax wouldn't work as any kind of disincentive.

Keldoclock wrote:I think that it's entirely the mother's right to choose, and that what goes on in a stranger's womb is none of our business.

I think it doesn't matter whether it's anybody's "right" to choose, but if somebody has to make the choice, I'll put that responsibility in the hands of the mother before I put it in the hands of Rick Santorum or any other selfish people who don't give a crap about the life of either the mother or the child after it's born.

Ah, I had not really put much thought into the issue. I would agree with you there, I suppose if there is a dispute it would be settled under the regular legal procedures for custody (which pretty much means that the mother will get her way)?

It takes two people to have a man stabbing a woman to death, and the man should get a say in whether she gets to go to the hospital for all the stab wounds. I mean, sure, it's her body, but the stabs are his creation, not hers.

stubby: I just made a great metaphor about abortions on the forum

mandanopants: i approve. i was going to say "write that shit up, we're putting a bill up for a vote!" but they'd probably vote it through. mandanopants: "omg, you are SO RIGHT. silly wimmins, thinking they have the right to decide if they get their wounds treated. LAW!"

stubby: lolrepublicansstubby: they'd have a senate panel for an in-depth analysis of the issuestubby: it would include zero women

mandanopants: it'd be all serial stabbers. and they'd be all "we're just REALLY INTERESTED in protecting the rights of EVERYONE INVOLVED, ok?!"

stubby wrote:It takes two people to have a man stabbing a woman to death, and the man should get a say in whether she gets to go to the hospital for all the stab wounds. I mean, sure, it's her body, but the stabs are his creation, not hers.

That metaphor only works in the case of snuggle. If there's consensual sex, then the woman made a choice with the man, so both should be responsible for any consequences.

How often is sex or pregnancy ever that clear-cut? There are unlimited gradations of coercion involved in all sexual interaction.

stubby wrote:As soon as you can figure out a way to do this that doesn't sound like "I'm sorry Ms. Roe, you don't have enough evidence to prove he held a gun to your head and snuggled you brutally, so we're restraining you for the next nine months in the interest of the child," you go ahead and do that.

Anyway I disagree. The woman takes on all of the medical and economic risk and hardship for nine months, while the man swaggers around smoking cigars and thumping bibles and telling everyone that women don't have the right to make decisions about their own lives. If he didn't want her to have custody of his seed and its possible derivative works, he shouldn't have given it to her in the first place.

Zupponn wrote:

stubby wrote:It takes two people to have a man stabbing a woman to death, and the man should get a say in whether she gets to go to the hospital for all the stab wounds. I mean, sure, it's her body, but the stabs are his creation, not hers.

That metaphor only works in the case of snuggle. If there's consensual sex, then the woman made a choice with the man, so both should be responsible for any consequences.

All right, I'll change my metaphor: it takes two to have a man consensually stab a woman to death. He should still get the right to decide whether she gets any medical procedures, because she agreed to be stabbed in the first place and therefore can't be allowed to suddenly decide she wants to live.

stubby wrote:All right, I'll change my metaphor: it takes two to have a man consensually stab a woman to death. He should still get the right to decide whether she gets any medical procedures, because she agreed to be stabbed in the first place and therefore can't be allowed to suddenly decide she wants to live.

By which point she's practically earned herself a Darwin Award.

Tzan wrote:

Semaj Nagirrac wrote:Well, I took some land without checking if it was owned by a faction or not. I'm not going to be banned, am I? I can destroy everything if need be.

stubby wrote:How often is sex or pregnancy ever that clear-cut? There are unlimited gradations of coercion involved in all sexual interaction.

Fair enough.

stubby wrote:All right, I'll change my metaphor: it takes two to have a man consensually stab a woman to death. He should still get the right to decide whether she gets any medical procedures, because she agreed to be stabbed in the first place and therefore can't be allowed to suddenly decide she wants to live.

So what's the point of child care payments then? I mean, it's her body, so why should some guy who has no say in the child's life have to pay for the kid for years?

Zupponn wrote:So what's the point of child care payments then? I mean, it's her body, so why should some guy who has no say in the child's life have to pay for the kid for years?

Well obviously the thing isn't using her body anymore once it's escaped. But when do you hear of anyone actually getting in trouble for ignoring child support payments? They might as well just be considered recommended donations.

(Aw yeah man),I wasn't gonna run from the cops but I was highI was gonna pull right over and stop but I was high(La da da da da da da da da)Now I am a paraplegic and i know why (why man?maybe it was that time a concrete wall fell on you?) yea hey,because I got highbecause I got highbecause I got high