Rodwell Reprieve

I've just heard that Rodwell's red card appeal has been successful and he won't serve a three match ban.

However, following Lyndon's excellent recent blog regarding repercussions for Martin Atkinson, there are a couple of other points here which I thought were worth mentioning.

1. One man's mistake ruins the match for Everton and we lose 3 points.

2. Records show another derby win for Liverpool.

3. How many Everton fans days were ruined by this mistake and its match-changing effect? I never fail to be amazed by the dedication of Evertonians, many of whom travel great distances at great cost. Where is the payback for them?

4. OK the decision has been reversed but the same men seemingly will not endorse the use of technology. The ref does have a difficult job (incompetence aside) so why not enable a quick replay / consultation with the 4th official.

5. On a slight tangent from the main point, serial cheats and divers like Suarez and Gerrard will hardly be discouraged by their lack of punishment. By default, cheating is being encouraged.

The whole game has changed dramatically over past decade or so therefore some change management is required - including referee training / competence and the use of technology. There is too much at stake for the likes of Atkinson's screw-up to be met by seemingly just a shrug of the shoulders.

It seems Jack's appeal against the sending off has been upheld and he is free to play. Nothing but fair play there then but shouldn't it go a bit further than that?

What will now happen to Atkinson? Will he be demoted to the Championship for a few games? Will he join Clattenberg in the 'Never referee a game again at Goodison Group'? Will he be docked his fee for the game? Or sent to referee school to take his exams again?

And what about the shithouse Suarez? I'm sure that his 3 foot jump into the air, screaming like a stuck piglet and hand held up as if calling for an ambulance had some effect on Atkinson's cock-up. Can Suarez be hauled up before the FA for ungentlemanly or unsporting conduct? Should he be sacked by the redshite for bringing the game and their club into disrepute? How about barred from the PFA for a successful attempt to get a fellow professional sent off for no other reason than the fact that he (Suarez) is a fucking cheat?

My guess is nothing will happen. The FA will consider it has done its bit in rescinding the card and will expect the issue to fade away and everything will get back to 'normal'. Moyes and Everton will act very diplomatically when they should be shouting the odds from the rooftops and the FA will get its way.

Consequently, nothing will change and the game will carry on stinking in a mess of corrupt ineptitude. Maybe the next time something like this happens I'll just walk away and not bother anymore.

Personally I think we need to suck it up and get on with it - football has always been about opinions and human error, so why change it now - just because there's more money involved?

These things DO even themselves out over a season, and the red card has been rescinded, so shall we pull the covers over it and crack on with finishing in the top 15 or so now?

I firmly believe that it's bad decisions like this, that are part & parcel of football - if you sanitise it and make everything reviewable by TV, then what do we have to talk about in the pubs the length & breadth of the land? This isn't cricket.

I don't want a game that's cut & dried, that would make it dull. OK this was a terrible decision and we all had a bad day because of it, and the RS are gloating - so what? It will all be forgotten in a few weeks and we'll have something else to talk about - therein lies the essence of the game we love.

James Marshall - it's HIGHLY unlikely that a Derby defeat of this nature will be evened out over the course of this season or any other for that matter given the catalogue of one sided 'mistakes' in this fixture (Clive Thomas, Clattenburg, Clarke, Hutchison etc etc). This is not just a run of the mill fixture which I could possibly agree with you on - though I think to even out would take several seasons anyway.

The tackle was right in front of me and no-one at all thought it anything other than perfectly timed except for that Yorkshire Pudding with the cards.

What I also can't understand is that there was what looked to me from my seat in the Paddock like a stonewall penalty for a foul on Drenthe in injury time which I haven't seen again since it didn't make it into ANY of the highlights I have seen and wasn't mentioned anywhere else.

So James Marshall these things even themselves out over a season? What planet are you on?

I've been an Evertonian for 25 years and i'd personally like to these things even themselves out for the Derby's alone - but that is not the case is it?

Most of the poor decisions always benefit Liverpool, when did we last win a Derby in dodgy circumstances or with a large helping from the referee?

Plenty has been put on this site over the last few days, citing at least a dozen if not more, of the seemingly never ending injustices we have to suffer against Liverpool.

I'll bet you it doesn't even itself out. That's rubbish borne out of hope and not reality.

Suck it up and move on? That's why it keeps happening. Why has Clattenberg never been back to Goodison? Maybe something to do with the outrage and the relentless effort and words of David Moyes that maybe brought it about.

Atkinson and the FA need the same treatment. Stay quiet and the cheating will go on and on.

OK, you're all welcome to your opinions - but doesn't that back up mine? It's about opinions, and of course it will even itself out over a season. If we get a slightly dodgy penalty at Swansea and take 3 points, does that not even it out?

You surely see my point.

The derby is just another game, with 3 points on offer - its no different to us playing Bolton, or Fulham or anyone else you can mention. 3 points is whats on offer, not bragging rights.

I personally don't give a shit what any RS say, so why let this get under your skin so much?

I totally understand where you're coming from, especially the points about bad refereeing decisions over the years because I feel the same pain you do, but when all is said & done, its just another game. We will have our day again :-)

James - yes I sort of see the point you are making but totally don't agree with you one jot for a couple of reasons.

1. This fixture does not even itself out as shown by examples quoted above - by your logic then statistically it would have evened out in this fixture which has been played more than 200 times

2. "The derby is just another game" - Are you for real??

Clearly you acknowledge it isn't within your own post since it even has it's own special name - "The Derby". There are many Derbies all special to the respective fans but if you mention that to an Evertonian or Liverpudlian they instantly know what you mean.

I see what you're saying but I'm sorry to say you are 100% wide of the mark on this one in my opinion.

It's just another game in the sense that it's 3 points won or lost, is my point. It will even itself out, because there will be games where decisions go in our favour. I don't really see what else there is to debate.

Your point is based purely around the fact that this was against the RS, so we're coming at this from totally different view-points!

All good though, Joe - 35 years of watching derbies has helped me take them with a pinch of salt these days as you just know something stupid will happen to someone in a blue jersey!

I grew up in Wales & southern England and live in Lopndon so clearly my point doesn't hold much weight with anyone born/living on Merseyside. I understand that but stand by my point :-) I've been a blue for 40 years, so I think my opinion is just as relevant.

If it had happened against another team, none of us would be so upset, so this is purely an argument aginst the RS and nothing to do with football as a whole. I think you're missing my point so shall we focus on the initial post rather than mine now? I'm clearly in the minority, which I can cope with!

James - Yes we agree on the points aspect (sort of) and yes my viewpoint was as you described.

However, continuing on my train of thought, then if statistically there is a lear anomaly biased towards one participant in a particular game then it's not blind luck anymore is it? Which I think is the point of the orginal post.

Either consciously or subconsciously if one side is favoured over another over the course of time then that isn't right, is it?

And the point about Suarez is correct too.

As well as laying odds the horse faced cheat could successfully eat an apple through a tennis racquet I'll add my opinion of him to that of the nation of Ghana.

No James, you are missing the total point, it's not upsetting just cos it happened against them and not another team. It's because it continually happens against them with seemingly no repercussions. When was the last time you saw anybody in the casino and it came down black 18 or more consecutive times. Exactly, it doesn't happen in life. Why does it continually happen for those smiling smug bastatrds! It's everything to do with football, sorry.

I heard Mile Riley talking about check lists for what makes a foul 'was there follow through' etc etc. You start giving refs too many rules and regulations to follow in a simple decision making process you are substituting common sense for tick sheets and this kinda crap happens.

It is really strange that there is no video ref during the game, but they are able to withdraw the ban for Rodwell based on video footage showing it was not a foul at all. Does anybody have a good reason why video evidence shouldn't be allowed during the match itself, but can be used after the match for banning purposes? I really cannot think of a reason. In the time that Suarez was rolling around the video ref would have seen there was no foul and Atkinson would have given us a free kick. And most probably, Suarez would have been booked. No time would be wasted at all.

I do understand that it doesn't make sense to review every decision but sending offs, penalty kicks and goals (did the ball cross the line etc) decide matches and can be reviewed within seconds.

I will now retire gracefully from this, because we have a point we're not going to agree on, ill take your points on the chin and let everyone get back to the discussion - it does feel as though we get the shitty end of the stick, but its that shitty stick they LOVE to beat us with. Bitter blues? We've all heard it a million times, I just think it might be more constructive to not let them have the pleasure anymore. Hopefully we can stick it up them at their place and shut that smug git Dalglish up as well.

Joe - you're right about one thing, Suarez and Gerrard are indeed a pair of cheating bastards!

Born off Great Homer StreetMember of the Boys Pen...Didn't know what a Derby was till I was 12 ( RS in division 2...)Exiled near StokeFrying in Gwladys Street on Saturday...Fuming over a match ruining decision, the Derby is more than 3 points to me....JUST another game!!! HaHa

I've attended many many (maybe too many) Everton games over the past 40 years and some certainly mean more than others. Some wins stay in the memory much much longer even though they were all only 3 pts (or 2)That's the real essence of watching football, not just a points gathering contest. I couldn't reel off points totals from every one of those seasons but I could tell you a lot about the derby games and the scores.

Possibly you just don't get this as you hint it in your earlier posts and that comes from your background. I can't and won't comment on that, except to say that I can't enlighten you on that score. Personally I think "3points is 3points" is a particularly soulless and dispassionate comment but that's by the by.

But if you came from Mars and sat where I sat last Saturday you'd know in a heartbeat it was different to any other game we've played this season.

I noticed the Guardian had a piece devoted to the foul and its aftermath, noting that the Uruguayan is rarely far away from such controversy.

This quote from a piece that was filed on SaturdayLuis Suárez, not for the first, and in all likelihood not the last time in his career, was the dominant target for opposition derision following his part in the defining act of the 216th Merseyside derby.

And so what happens to these cheats? They who destroy what was an aegerly awaited contest?

Absoluttely bloody nothing, that's what. So where is the justice, where is the deterrent?

It's all very well for the authorities to call for better behaviour. But as the ludicrously sneered at Ed Miliband said of bad company practice last week. If we do not change the rules, do not expect people/companies to change their ways. If they profit from bad practice, they will use it.

I'm just being literal about it, Joe. I 'understand' how it feels, even though I'm not from Merseyside - I live among the RS as there are loads of them down here and I can tell you, the berating and shit you take being an Evertonian isn't always easy. At least you have people to lean on!

As much as us losing the game, it IS just 3 points. I'm not trying to undermine anyone here, nor say my point is totally right, but I do stand by the FACT that it IS JUST 3 points like any other! Of course it hurts more than any other fixture. Of course.

I completely disagree with you, James. It is not just 3 points. I'm still fuming and we will have to wait until next year to get even with them smug so-and-so's.

It's yet another game where they have had more than their fair share of 'luck'. How many times do their players get the benefit of the doubt? It's uncanny or something more sinister - depends on how many beers I've had!

And what about Charlie Adams two footed jumping in challenge on Osman that the twat of a ref didnt even think warranted a booking. Or Lucas' blatant body check in the second half when he was already on a booking that the twat of a ref ignored.What about the fact that Cahill's and Adams feet were at almost exactly the same level during one challenge and Cahill gets booked - nothing for Adam.

Sorry, the performance of that twat on Saturday was a disgrace and was tantamount to cheating. As a referee you should have no influence over a game at all and he had the major influence. Decisions DID NOT even themself out in the game as the bottom line is we should never at any stage of that game been reduced to 10 men. How you can suggest decisions in the game 'evened out' is beyond me.

Jeremy?One could argue that we have already had that decision "evened out". Fellaini and Hibbert both could have seen cards of red or yellow for their challenges, but didn't.?

Exactly what they shown on MOTD, only tackles from other Everton players, neither of the two players you mention should have been sent off maybe a yellow maximum (are you brain washed? Same thing in the papers, only Everton tackles mentioned).

You would think the Scum never made a tackle all game. If Fellaini and Hibbert could have went then so should have Lucas & Adam maybe a few more of their scum bags too, we also should have had a penalty at the end of the game; Drenthe was brought down.

One could argue that the decisions ?evened out? but you would have to be either mental, blind or a Kopite; make your own deductions for yourself if you believe the decisions ?evened out?.

For me "evened out" Would be a sending off for them at Anfield an a penalty to us for what we were denied at the end of the game also us allowed for free rain to foul as much as we want pull shirts, tackles from behind etc

The Fellaini and Hibbert challenges deserved yellows no more.--------------------I think Hibbert's challenge was a red. but the game was already ruined by then.

You have one player fewer than the other team, you stretch more for many challenges; you are more concerned of their team having an extra player and approaching the box - desperation enters, you take more of a risk, as there may not be cover (because your teammate's having a shower); tiredness comes into it more, especially with the hot weather.

The game was effectively decided after 22 minutes by a no-rate ref who managed to give a red card for a non-foul just one metre from him.

And as many Evertonians know, this is not an evens out over the season debate. Unless Liverpool get a Red card for an inncoent challenge early in the Anfiled game. Nor does it even out against Liverpool over decades.

These events are becoming too common to be coincidence. If you toss a coin in the air 30 times, it comes up heads in 12-18 times, and tails the same. So why oh why is it almost always us in derbies?

James, I don't believe that these things necessarily even themselves out over a season. Yes, clubs get a bit of good luck there and a bit of bad luck here, but believing this 'evening out' business is some kind of cosmic truth is just plain daft I'm afraid.

If things really did even out though, then how about over a lifetime? Never mind over a season. I'm pretty long in the tooth now and I go back a long way so my remaining lifetime may not be all that long. But if a lifetime's 'evening out' was expected I'd get an awful lot coming to me. I would be repaid for Clive Thomas, Hansen's unpunished handball in the final, Hall being offside at Wembley and deemed not to be interfering with play although he ducked under the fucking thing in front of Southall. I'd get repaid for Poll and for Clattenberg. And now I have this Atkinson repayment coming too.

Fucking hell James I can't wait. I am going to see out the rest of my life having orgasms with the pleasure of seeing the redshite getting the same shit we have had over the years, decades even. Your theory falls apart because it doesn't take account of one thing. Some referees are biased towards who they perceive to be the powerful clubs and this means that if there is a cock-up to be made, it is statistically more likely to be made in their favour. This is what fucks me off more than anything because it's as plain as the nose on my face but the football authorities just do not want to face up to it.

It doesnt even out at all - the top sides get more favourable decisions and the lesser sides get more poor decisions - its as simple as that. Whether this is because the authorities want this and tell the referees or whether its simply because the referees favour these top teams to keep on their good side i dont know but what i do know is that they definately favour certain teams.

The referees basically decide who they percieve to be the 'bigger' club on the day and they get all the 50-50 decisions. This is why against the shite we get nothing. There can only be one logical explanation for such a shocking decision that was Rodwells sending off on Saturday and that was that the referee had a pre-concieved idea that he had to keep an eye out for aggressive Everton tactics. As soon as he thought he saw something a bit tasty he produced a red.

The shite may benefit when they play us but just see how the decisions go when they play Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea - mark my word, more decisions will go against them than for them. Would Scholes have been sent off for the Rodwell challenge against the Shite ? No. Did Gerrard get sent off against Man U for a debateable over the top challenge - Yes.

The whole thing stinks, simple as that. Not one favourable decision against these twats in my lifetime (44 years !!) - that is more than just a coincidence.

These things never "Even themselves out over a season"...!!!Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and "them" (and probably City now) will get those desicions against the us, Spurs, Villa... who will inturn get those decisions against the next tier... who will inturn get those decisions against the next tier... until you get to the poor sods right at the bottom like the Wolves of this world. Where penalties aren't given, goals are dissalowed for the ball leaving the field of play when it doesn't and you get relegated at the end of the season, not just for being "not all that good" but because there is an order and we should know our place. (ok, granted some that have been relegated in the past have been pub standard)We beat the "top teams" last season "inspite" of the referee, that wasn't suppose to happen.

However some clubs have players who do it a lot more than others, and I'd say that we were pretty good in terms of:

1) Not diving2) Not rolling around on the floor as if shot3) Not asking the referee to book players4) Not arguing with refereeing decisions5) Not crowding the referee in an attempt to intimidate.

I think we can all agree that the richer teams all do the above to a much greater extent than us.

Personally, I applaud Moyes stand from a moral perspective. Unfortunately we don't get points for morals, or respecting the referee and his shitty decisions. Infact we get royally screwed over and I certainly don't believe it evens out for a club like ours when we play the richer teams.

The FA need to have some consistency in terms of how they deal with cheating and dodgy decisions. Either everyone needs to respect the referee and cut the cheating out, or we throw the (moral)rule book out and all start to get what we can by foul means or fair.

I should also say I find the suggestion above that "cheating/incorrect decisions are ok because it gives us something to talk about in the pub" quite astonishing. The game is has enough talking points without the need to discuss whether Suarez latest masterpiece was a 9.9 or 10.0.

You guys cant see the forest cause of the trees. Main thing is this. We only play with 1 striker, we can not create chances for him to score, and we need to put pressure on Moyes to start more then one striker! All season I have seen the problem, we are not creating many chances and the few we do create is blown by a midfielder. We need at least two strikers out there, because we lack quality in midfield. With Pienaar and Arteta gone we just cant produce shots on goals because we lack that creative players. Too many defensive midfielders will do that.Truth is if Moyes doesnt figure this out and does something about it we will be relegated! I ask you, who is suppose to score the goals for us this season? Cahill? He hasnt done anything good since January before he went on tour with Austrailia! Saha still needs to be provided with enough chances to hit the target. All I see from Saha is his hands on his head every time he has taken a shot. I ask you to start counting all the misses next game around as that will tell you the whole story. We dont score and we cant create enough chances. That is the MAIN problem now!

What are the FA doing about Atkinson. He's surely guilty of gross incompetence or something worse and he's potentially lost Everton many millions of pounds via the loss of three points. In any other occupation such gross incompetence involving such potential financial loss would surely mean instant dismissal so has Atkinson gone?

Well I certainly won't be forgetting it any time soon, and by that I mean the next 20 years.

Just looking at THEM v US. Have decisions even themselves out over the last 20 years ? Definitely not. Rescinding the red card only confirms what we all knew in the first place; that Atkinson fucked up big time. Expect something similar if not in the next Merseyside derby, then soon after.

It would not happen in Rugby League. The video ref would have seen it and ruled on it within one minute, it took that long to argue and for Jack to actually go off. Suarez has a history of this these shitty tricks so has Gerrard and so did Torres, I am told by a guy who spent a few years at anfield that Liverpool FC have always encouraged there players to moan and claim at the ref. at every opportunity on the grounds that he will buckle at some stage, just watch them, it happens all the time.. not just against Everton..Dalglish has been moaning for weeks that they were so hard done to and on Sat just about five minutes before the non offence he had been giving the ref. a real ear bashing... It works but only for the big money clubs.....

I don't understand why there can't be a 'challenge' rule like there is in tennis and in cricket. Here is how it would work: You are allowed to challenge a referee/linesman's decision an unlimited number of times as long as that challenge is justified (ie you are right and the referee is wrong). However, you are only allowed to be wrong on (for example) two occasions each half after which time you are not permitted to challenge a decision. There a few ways in which this would benefit the game:

1) It would speed things up! One of the most frequently cited reasons against action replays is that it would slow the game down. However, if there was a challenge system like this it would reduce the teams readiness to crowd around the referee and challenge every single decision as they would know that they were wasting their challenges (which might be needed later in the game).

2) It would make it more exciting. Everyone at the cricket and tennis loves it when a decision is challenged. The next two minutes and the panto that goes with it are the most nail biting of the whole match. The tension in the stadium would be approaching penalty shoot out levels!

3) It makes officials more accountable (no failing to acknowledge your mistakes in the face of extraordinary evidence to the contrary, Mr Poll), and at the same time would actually reduce the amount of abuse aimed at officials. If there is a mistake, but you can't challenge it because you have already wasted your challenges - you have nobody to blame but yourself. And, in implementing the new rules there is an acknowledgment that the ref will make mistakes and is willing to acknowledge and rescind errors.

I don't understand why there can't be a 'challenge' rule like there is in tennis and in cricket. Here is how it would work:

You are allowed to challenge a referee/linesman's decision an unlimited number of times as long as that challenge is justified (ie you are right and the referee is wrong). However, you are only allowed to be wrong on (for example) two occasions each half after which time you are not permitted to challenge a decision. There a few ways in which this would benefit the game:

1) It would speed things up! One of the most frequently cited reasons against action replays is that it would slow the game down. However, if there was a challenge system like this it would reduce the teams readiness to crowd around the referee and challenge every single decision as they would know that they were wasting their challenges (which might be needed later in the game).

2) It would make it more exciting. Everyone at the cricket and tennis loves it when a decision is challenged. The next two minutes and the panto that goes with it are the most nail biting of the whole match. The tension in the stadium would be approaching penalty shoot out levels!

3) It makes officials more accountable (no failing to acknowledge your mistakes in the face of extraordinary evidence to the contrary, Mr Poll), and at the same time would actually reduce the amount of abuse aimed at officials. If there is a mistake, but you can't challenge it because you have already wasted your challenges - you have nobody to blame but yourself. And, in implementing the new rules there is an acknowledgment that the ref will make mistakes and is willing to acknowledge and rescind errors.

But for my own curiosity could you please give the interpretaion of the words "radge" and "glaykit" I'm so into education and i'm sure it will do a great service when I need to get down with the kids. (Massive ha ha) I love it.

Mike , I refer to Point 5; cheating. I too, question now what the FA is going to do to stop these cheats that are spoiling the game.

Atkinson shall receive his punishment ( hopefully ) but what about Suarez? Does he get away scot-free? His career is littered with blatant cheating ( handball, pulling hair, biting, diving for fouls/penalties) As the season gets on he is going to be involved in a lot more incidents none more than their next game v United. Has the FA the balls to administer proper punishments for these type of players.

The best thing Jags did all day was refuse to shake hands with Suarez as he pushing him in the back going for the ball in the second half.

Next time a referee makes a poor/harsh decision that goes in our favour, I will expect to see each & every one of you on here complaining about double standards, and that the away fans should get their money back, yeah?

I'm sorry, but none of it stands up - its all about us being hard done by, and the exact same thing happens to all clubs.

You ask any supporter of any club, and they'll all say the same thing.

Sorry, but I simply don't agree - this is just blue tinted specs bullshit.

I'll change my mind and agree with you entirely if you can answer me one question. I don't know how old you are but can you tell me when (during the time of your Evertonianship.....give us the dates) an Evertonian could walk away from Goodison, Anfield or Wembley or any derby semi final in a variety of places thinking we had the benefit of the referee there!

I'm not talking about luck, because that is an entirely different thing. I'm talking about dodgy refereeing that cost games.

Because I go back a long way. I remember the shite coming up from Division 2. Since then I've seen an awful lot of derby games. I've seen us win lucky and I've seen them win lucky, but I have never seen a bad, game changing decision go in our favour in 45 fucking years!

Do you appreciate how statistically unlikely that is? It is about as unlikely as getting run over by a fucking rickshaw in County Road. Something like 120 derbies since the pricks came up and not once can I recall the shoe being on the other foot.

I've heard Thomas giving four different reasons (after the event) as to why he disallowed the goal in the semi-final of the league cup. Poll now admits he was wrong to disallow the goal he denied us but why did he think he was right at the fucking time?

I've seen Gerrard launch a waist high tackle on Naysmith and go unpunished and seen Hibbert sent off because the same cheating bastard whispered in Clattenberg's ear. The same referee refused us a penalty in the same game when Lescott was wrestled to the ground in the area. Even Lawrenson and Hansen were bemused by that.

And then we have what Moyes heard outside the changing rooms from Clattenberg about the very same penalty. What was it he said (reportedly but from an excellent source and which explains why the whole thing was hushed up, Moyes won his disrepute charge and Clattenberg has never set foot near Goodison since)

'You don't give penalties against Liverpool in the last minute'

That is what he said and there it is in a nutshell. The game is fucking bent and you do yourself no favours in trying to deny it.

The FA very rarely rescind red cards these days. This week, for Jack, they couldn't do it fast enough. What does that tell you? Even those stuffed shirts were embarrassed.

Well without wishing to take away from the justified argument that we rarely benefit from dodgy refereeing decisions in vital games, I'm sure glad that Limpar didn't get booked for diving against Wimbledon!

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