tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21165575.post8609189130887363408..comments2016-12-09T17:12:45.472-05:00Comments on In the Middle: Theseus is no fraud, or, Thank You Paul Auster!Jeffrey Cohenhttps://plus.google.com/110433684739546897626noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21165575.post-35618256238315736342009-02-26T18:49:00.000-05:002009-02-26T18:49:00.000-05:00Irina: As far as I know, the standard text is Will...Irina: As far as I know, the standard text is William D. Paden's <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Occitan-Introductions-Older-Languages/dp/0873522931" REL="nofollow">Introduction to Old Occitan</A> ... but, according to the reviewers on Amazon, that book won't do you much good if you don't already know the other related languages. So, depending on your background, you should approach it with caution. I would give you a more personal review, but sadly, the book has sat neglected on my shelf since I bought it years ago. I need to improve my Latin and French before I tackle Old Occitan.afarberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05360008043608880302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21165575.post-1964215965948406852009-02-26T10:54:00.000-05:002009-02-26T10:54:00.000-05:00Cf. the fifth line of this. Feel the longing to ha...Cf. the fifth line of <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky-NlguJE6c" REL="nofollow">this</A>. Feel the longing to have been born on the *other* side of the alps.<BR/><BR/>With meadhorn raised to martial synaesthesia,<BR/><BR/>NicolaNicola Masciandarohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01279665722551517693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21165575.post-56491925086655262752009-02-25T14:19:00.000-05:002009-02-25T14:19:00.000-05:00Dan and MM thanks!Irina: no idea. I know we have s...Dan and MM thanks!<BR/><BR/>Irina: no idea. I know we have some Occitan readers in these parts though...<BR/><BR/>Jeffrey: jeez, I should know that in re: satire, but I just don't. <BR/><BR/>As for Theseus: on Chaucer's personal experience we can also observe that he was a Justice of the Peace in the 1380s and thus responsible for enforcing labor regulations, among other laws. This certainly complicates Chaucer's supposedly liberal bemusion. <BR/><BR/>That said, the portraits of Mars and Saturn are pretty dark, AND Theseus does mistakenly seem to invest Jupiter with more power than Jupiter is able to exercise: much hinges, however, on whether this should be understood as a mistake on Theseus's part or as a deliberate misdirection of the 'true' source or model of power, princely included. <BR/><BR/>The well-ordered admirable Theseus of KnT is as dead as the well-ordered admirable 'Great Chain of Being' in Ulysses's speech from Shakespeare's Troilus and Cressida. But, I hope, the bemused liberal--or even reformist--Chaucer is also dead.<BR/><BR/>With all that in mind, how should we teach Theseus? I guess I've already proposed a route, above, with my Bertran de Born, so I'll just ask Jeffrey (et al.): how do YOU teach Theseus?Karl Steelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03353370018006849747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21165575.post-50695533718584462242009-02-25T14:14:00.000-05:002009-02-25T14:14:00.000-05:00Speaking of which, can anyone recommend a handy Ol...Speaking of which, can anyone recommend a handy Old Occitan/Provencal grammar and reader?irinahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14105686105741162480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21165575.post-15661694501459504082009-02-25T13:44:00.000-05:002009-02-25T13:44:00.000-05:00my partner (and live-in hebrew expert) tells me th...my partner (and live-in hebrew expert) tells me that nephesh is fem., so yafot nephesot, I think.dan remeinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13011645541207076650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21165575.post-52553905349027052482009-02-24T19:27:00.000-05:002009-02-24T19:27:00.000-05:00By the way, I admit to knowing next to nothing abo...By the way, I admit to knowing next to nothing about Bertran de Born. Is his sirventès generally accepted as satire? In what spirit is it composed?Jeffrey J. Cohenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17346504393740520542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21165575.post-90482796359246404992009-02-24T19:21:00.000-05:002009-02-24T19:21:00.000-05:00This only shows what an antique I am, but when I f...This only shows what an antique I am, but when I first started leading Chaucer discussion sections as a graduate student assistant (this would be 1989 or so), and for many years thereafter, I was constantly aware that I was doing so in the wake of Monty Python -- specifically, in the aftermath of Terry Jones's book <A HREF="http://books.google.com/books?id=JFVaAAAAMAAJ&pgis=1" REL="nofollow">Chaucer's Knight: The Portrait of a Medieval Mercenary</A>. I can't say much more about this book other than that it turned the bloody Arthur of The Holy Grail (the one who kills the dull medievalist who blathers on about Arthurian myths) into Theseus. It also turns Chaucer into a figure any Cambridge-trained liberal can love (a Chaucer, that is, who is exterior to his own time: disgusted by violence, seeing with his penetrating stare the charade that chivalry offers, stressing the dark side of the military-industrial complex).<BR/><BR/>You can see how such a reading would appeal to college students, because you can both side with Chaucer and condemn the Man. Self-satisfaction all around.<BR/><BR/>It's tough to get medieval after that ... or maybe not, since the Jones book also offers such a good entryway into how <EM>not</EM> to do a presentist reading of a text. I would ask my students about Chaucer having been captured in battle. I would ask them what they thought he might feel about killing someone with his own hands. These are not answerable questions, but they do not offer the delightfully peace-loving Chaucer that a swift rejection of Theseus enables either.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the poem, Karl, and for the time travel.Jeffrey J. Cohenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17346504393740520542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21165575.post-42643819644817022752009-02-24T17:49:00.000-05:002009-02-24T17:49:00.000-05:00Thanks for calling our attention to that ... I cer...Thanks for calling our attention to that ... I certainly wouldn't have expected to find Bertran de Born in <I>The Nation</I>! I'd love to hear how your class reacts to the poem. I tried to teach it once, and I don't think it went well (although I admit, this is probably due to the fact that I hardly understand the poem myself).afarberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05360008043608880302noreply@blogger.com