i would of guessed she was using a half helmet / pudden ball ones and thought it would be safe and with the damage to her head there is no wonder a ban on them was put in to the uk years ago.

plus if he locked up the back wheel and then high side and sent his wife in to the air. it was his f@ck up for only using the rear brake to stop at speed and no thinking about using the front one. as most hd riders do.

it be easy to look at his bike or whats left of it and see if abs was fitted or not. as well as getting him to point to what he thought was an abs dash light.

do you now if she was using a open face, full face or half helmet ??? any of them could be eu sharp rated or what ever the us rating is.

as for her skull to be smashed it sounds like it be a half helmet/ pudden ball ones she had on as they well only give the very low / no pertection to any thing but the very top of your head. it as shame for her to get messed up for her man not being able to ride a bike.

If a bike has ABS and there is an emergency, you hit the brakes hard. Because you don't have to worry about them locking up, there is no problem with letting up on the brake if conditions allow it. A person who knows they have ABS will use them as intended. There is no reason to consider negative consequences of letting off the brake in mid-stop.

On a bike without ABS, you know that if you lock the rear, you must keep it locked. Letting off is the way to a high-side and propelling your wife 35 feet to her near death. You don't let up mid-stop. It is a different technique for different bikes.

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Having ABS doesn't mean you can let go of the brakes mid-stop any more than not having ABS. ABS is only for preventing , and then marginally so, slides. It doesn't mean you can slam on the brakes whenever you want and not expect things to go badly.

Yeah... you're right. At least for a new bike and I think that is the situation in this case. But what about a used one? If your average HD rider is looking at a used bike and notices a cut-out in the tach that shows "ABS" and it doesn't light up, they could reasonably assume that it didn't light up because there is nothing wrong with the system. It seems just stupid for HD to claim they can't make different face-plates for the tach, depending on the equipment.

Unfortunately in todays society it is up to the manufacturer to predict any possible ignorance or stupidity on the part of it's products users and design it's products so that they are idiot proof. If they can't make it idiot roof they need to at least put a bunch of ridiculous warning stickers all over it.

I can see it now. All new Harleys will have a big stickers stating that improper use of brakes can lead to serious injury or death and the brakes should not be used without proper training.

---The case presented in court is a carefully filtered description of what really happened.
---The newspaper report is a much less carefully filtered account of the previously filtered court case.
---We have no idea of her helmet, it could have been a novelty faux-helmet or a half-helmet with the (marginal IMO) DOT cert or maybe even a 3/4 or full helmet, of which none is perfect.
---And, maybe, Harley should not have anything that said "ABS" on a non-ABS bike. We've all known some people that come to the goofiest conclusions....

DOT only tests the top half of the helmet, therefore half-helmets can pass. The certification is self-certified, and DOT actually has a few tested each year. Here is an out of date list which shows how some fail:http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/testing/comply/fmvss218/

&#8220;On ABS equipped models, the amber ABS indicator lamp begins to flash at key ON to indicate that the system is operational. It continues to flash until motorcycle speed exceeds 3 mph (5 k km/h). Continuous illumination of the lamp will only occur when ABS detects that the system is malfunctioning. In diagnostic mode, the lamp will also illuminate to indicate the presence of diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs). See a Harley-Davidson dealer for service.&#8221;

Since (as I learned in the N.T.S.B. cell phone ban thread) almost every one around here believes laws are a great way to compensate for the lack of common sense...
Why not just petition the N.T.S.B. to make it illegal to sell bikes equipped without ABS or make it illegal for the Mfgs. to have cut-outs that mislead idiots into thinking they have ABS. (when they don't)
Hell, we could even petition for helmet interlock and neon color sensors that will not allow bikes to start unless you're wearing the proper safety gear.
They could package it all in the same bill so no one would ever notice it until it's too late to stop it.

On ABS equipped models, the amber ABS indicator lamp begins to flash at key ON to indicate that the system is operational. It continues to flash until motorcycle speed exceeds 3 mph (5 k km/h). Continuous illumination of the lamp will only occur when ABS detects that the system is malfunctioning. In diagnostic mode, the lamp will also illuminate to indicate the presence of diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs). See a Harley-Davidson dealer for service.

The rider should understand the nomenclature of the particular model

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You see? Information in the manual. Evidently the bike owner didn't bother to read it and just assumed....

Even with ABS, good technique (smooth application, not just grabbing a handful) makes a difference. That implies some degree of skill and practicing same.

Because you don't have to worry about them locking up, there is no problem with letting up on the brake if conditions allow it. A person who knows they have ABS will use them as intended. There is no reason to consider negative consequences of letting off the brake in mid-stop.

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At what point is it reasonable to expect that the rider has realized that the ABS isn't functioning? I've seen an RT-P ABS pump failure at 70mph, and trust me, that rider knew it right away. :eek1

On a bike without ABS, you know that if you lock the rear, you must keep it locked. Letting off is the way to a high-side and propelling your wife 35 feet to her near death. You don't let up mid-stop. It is a different technique for different bikes.

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I know no such things. Yeah, the MSF teaches that- non-MSF states don't, I explained why earlier- even if you're trying to keep it locked, you can high side.

So this guy claims (note the operative word here), he thought it had ABS and presumably riding with a technique that is perfectly appropriate for a bike with that system. According to the article (which could be wrong), he was riding correctly for a bike with ABS.

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More or less. Except for the part where he demonstrated poor traffic skills and got into a situation where he needed good braking skills and didn't have any, sure.

It does sound like he was riding the way far too many people do- believing that ABS will save their ass no matter how bone-headed they ride/drive- but people w/o ABS do that too.

So now Harley is claiming that it is unreasonable to expect them to build a bike with two different tachometers? Really? That doesn't seem to unreasonable to me. They built them with two different braking systems, didn't they? I can certainly see how a person could see a cut-out that reads "ABS" could think the bike has ABS.

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My wife's Toyota has cutouts in the instrument masks for ABS and TPMS lights but has neither. Cars are built with wiring harnesses and common dash boards to handle all the options; I can see the same with bikes.

No reasonable person would overlook the fact that ABS brakes cost $1195.00. (if they had paid for it they would KNOW)

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What if they had paid for it? Having been told you were buying goose and having paid for a goose, how much consumer responsibility does one have into checking that what you really wound up with isn't a duck?

What if they had paid for it? Having been told you were buying goose and having paid for a goose, how much consumer responsibility does one have into checking that what you really wound up with isn't a duck?

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If they had paid for it and it wasn't there then this case would have been settled in two days.

I show all my customers how to tell an ABS Harley from a Non ABS Harley from 20' away.

&#8220;On ABS equipped models, the amber ABS indicator lamp begins to flash at key ON to indicate that the system is operational. It continues to flash until motorcycle speed exceeds 3 mph (5 k km/h). Continuous illumination of the lamp will only occur when ABS detects that the system is malfunctioning. In diagnostic mode, the lamp will also illuminate to indicate the presence of diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs). See a Harley-Davidson dealer for service.&#8221;

I usually hate silly, excessively litigious suits about nothing, but I actually agree with this one, at least partly.

Imagine that guy was your friend, and had you take the bike out for a spin. It is not unreasonable to see the ABS cutout, and assume that there is an ABS system installed, and that the light isn't on because the system is functioning. Some clown pulls out in front of you, and being a well trained ADV rider, you react as trained: If it has abs brakes, pull hard, press hard, and hold on. Unfortunately, you lose traction, and crash. If you had known that it lacked ABS brakes, you would have done proper threshold braking, as you were also trained to do.

I think it is irresponsible to leave ambiguity in this regard. Maybe not $10 million irresponsible, but irresponsible nonetheless. My BMW K75 does not have ABS, although it was an option when new. There is no light, a place for one, or any other indication that would even suggest that it has anything besides the wooden and lockable, but excellent brakes that it has.

I think it is irresponsible to leave ambiguity in this regard. Maybe not $10 million irresponsible, but irresponsible nonetheless. My BMW K75 does not have ABS, although it was an option when new. There is no light, a place for one, or any other indication that would even suggest that it has anything besides the wooden and lockable, but excellent brakes that it has.

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I have owned thre non abs BMW's and the all had abs cutouts as you call them. they just did not light up. I have seen countless cars for Japan the US and Europe that also did the same. If it don't light it aint got it.