The future of Diablo 3 PVP:Dueling?

Posted By: December 27, 2012

Jay Wilson has delivered the long awaited PvP blog and it’s hard not to be surprised by it.The basic gist for you TLDR people is that PVP isn’t where they want it(surprise face) and that dueling will be added into 1.07 in it’s place until death match or it’s replacement is ready.The full post after the bump.

We’ve been working really hard on the features, content, and systems for PvP in Diablo III and I wanted to take some time to provide an update on where we’re at. Of course, our goal has been to release our Team Deathmatch mode as soon as possible, but we don’t want to put anything out there before it’s ready. Right now, Team Deathmatch isn’t yet where we want it to be, and I want to provide some insight into where we are at in the development process.

The State of PvP

Our original intent with PvP for Diablo III was to provide more formal support for the dueling community that existed in Diablo II. We wanted to give players some kind of structure that would not only make it easier for you to duel with one another, but also allow you to have duels that were team-based. This is how our Team Deathmatch mode emerged, and it’s been instrumental in making a lot of improvements to Diablo III. But in continuing to develop this mode, playtest it, and put it in front of other developers within the company, we’ve found that it falls short of our expectations for a high-quality Blizzard experience.

Putting people into an arena and letting them hurl fireballs and swing crazy-ass swords at one another always has an element of fun to it. I imagine it’s no surprise to anyone reading this blog that people like battling each other in video games, so if you had the chance to play our Team Deathmatch at one of the BlizzCons where we featured it you might not understand why we’d say that we don’t feel the current mode is good enough.

Well, Here’s Why…

For us it comes to a few issues, one of which is depth. Simply fighting each other with no other objectives or choices to make gets old relatively quickly. We’ve brought a lot of people in to try out Team Deathmatch and, while some found it entertaining, most of our testers didn’t feel like it was something they’d want to do beyond a few hours. Without more varied objectives, or very lucrative rewards, few saw our current iteration as something they’d want spend a lot of time in.

Another is class balance. Like Diablo II, Diablo III was designed to be a PvE-first kind of game, where we never compromised on player abilities in the name of future PvP balance. We want to be able to carry over as many of the crazy runes, items, and skills as possible, with their crazy effects, and alter them as little as possible. In a casual PvP mode, something equivalent to a WoW Battleground, this would be fine, but Team Deathmatch felt very hardcore, and it put a laser focus on class balance in a way that we didn’t think would be good for the game as a whole.

Certainly, we’ve gotten a lot of benefits from the development of Team Deathmatch, especially in the areas of controls and combat model tuning, but at this point we don’t believe it’s the experience we feel it needs to be in order to ship, so we will be shelving it for now and exploring other options.

What’s Next

So, our core problem is that our Team Deathmatch mode doesn’t feel like a great addition to Diablo III. It’s not up to the quality that Blizzard gamers expect or that we feel you deserve, and it doesn’t really fit with our goals for the rest of the game. The question now is what are we going to do about it?

First and foremost, if our original goal was to support dueling, then we’re not achieving that goal very well if we don’t actually give players a way to duel in-game. You’ve been asking us for dueling for a while, so we’re going to add it to the game soon. Dueling is currently scheduled to release with patch 1.0.7, which is set to hit sometime after the new year. (We’ll be providing details about that feature very soon, so stay tuned.)

But as I mentioned before, we are going back to the drawing board on a new replacement for Team Deathmatch, something that feels more appropriate for Diablo III. And as we stated previously, regardless of when we release it, it’ll be a free addition to the game. Team Deathmatch provided us with the foundation that we needed and served us well. Hell, it may even still be added in some form in the future. For now, though, we’re going to first be looking at new modes that play up to the strengths of the character classes, focus on objectives beyond just defeating other players, and possibly even integrate PvE elements and rewards.

Keepin’ It Real

We wanted to be upfront and honest with the community about where this particular project is at. It’s certainly not ideal, and I know some of you got to play Team Deathmatch at BlizzCon and are probably thinking, “It seemed good enough! Just give us that.” I also know how I feel whenever a game or game feature I’m looking forward to is delayed, but, as with all things Blizzard, we want to be sure that the features we add to Diablo III are actually worth it and will make the game better, and PvP is no exception.

While we don’t have any further information to share right now about our plans for additional PvP modes, we look forward to posting more about dueling in the next few days.

I for one was looking forward to the death match style Pvp and having never played at Blizzcon it had my interest piqued. Obviously there is more to come on how dueling will be implemented and what to expect but I’d expect there are quite a few disappointed Diablo players today. What do you think of the change? How will this impact your attitude? Sound off in the comments!

Is it really adding money in the mix? In all seriousness, I am not a programmer person or a game designer but what could possibly be the glitch that they feel the deathmatch arena was not good enough 6 months after release? Is there anyone with technical or production experience that could give a realistic reason why this PvP could not be added as originally intended?

I simply would like to know because I just don’t get this anymore. Yes, the game had some “shortcomings” upon release but this to me is a major set-back from a design/implementation PoV and I don’t even play PvP. This news to me is like whatever. But for the design team and the company…WOW. What a cluster—-!

If I had to guess, the reason this is taking so long is a balance game. I don’t mean everything should be equal, I mean players in PvE hit for millions but have 50k HP (random approximate numbers).

Think about how you would mathematically make those damage numbers sane. Now, how would you express the relative difference in gear between someone with a 30k damage defensive setup vs a 150k damage glass cannon, with equal gear budgets. Now think about that for every class makeup, with every gear range, and every skill/rune combo.

The PvP demo worked because they were able to precisely balance the gear and skills and runes to make it work, then give demo players that one setup that they made to work. Planning for a few dozen setups is not the same as what they’re doing now, no matter how much the forums choose to believe otherwise.

Maybe a player is between a white mob and a purple boss, defense-wise.

Something like a white Golgor/Pahsing Beast, or even a Demonic Tremor – they don’t take damage in 1 or 2 secs and die in 2-3 secs.

Imo, looking at the DPS/EHP ratio, I’m not waiting/expecting pvp. In fact, I’m afraid it has potential to sink the ship badly.

I’m not saying Activision will crash and burn, since they have CoD and Skylanders to keep investors happy (Btw, please, don’t. Vivendi owns a ISP that’s very cool and it will be avaliable soon (TM) where I live :p). Maybe the life won’t really get that worse for Blizzard, franchise-wise, but I’m afraid on how it will impact on game dev.

I love the tone that blizzard used in this article. “it’s not up to our high standards, therefore you don’t get it.” You know what Blizzard? You’re not up to my standards kid! Stop bullshitting and just give people some pvp action. That’s the entire reason I bought the fucking game. Even if they just did a fucking carbon copy of D2 with updated graphics, the majority of people would have been happy. Never seen a company fuck up this bad, not to mention the starcraft “release 3 campaigns separately” nonsense. Blizzard you fucking suck so hard

“PvP Arenas
In past Diablo games, fighting with other players acquired something of a storied history. In Diablo III, we wanted to create a more formalized play-space for heroes to test their mettle. Diablo III’s arenas are designed exclusively for PvP combat, and so they have different level layouts and rates of health spawning, along with matchmaking to ensure more evenly balanced battles. PvP arenas will be available post-launch.”

Very specifically, that’s what Blizzard’s product description on their respective US/UK game features page ( http://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/what-is ) have to say about it right to this moment. And yes, this exact product overview/presentation page was referenced in the digital pre-order campaign. So yeah, pvp arenas were indeed a formally advertized post-release addition, beyond the myriads of grand announcements ( http://www.diablowiki.net/Arena ) surrounding the feature until shortly before release.

This. It’s all about dragging it out as long as possible to keep it “fresh”, when the whole thing is just oh so stale.

Here’s a snipped quote from Jay that (in retrospect) I wish they did with the whole damn game:
“… but at this point we don’t believe it’s the experience we feel it needs to be in order to ship, so we will be shelving it for now and exploring other options.”

I don’t even like PvP, but this is a pretty huge flip-flop. First they were solidly in the “D3 PvP is not an eSport” camp, and this has apparently been completely 180’d into “class balance made D3 PvP unfun” (which is something that was blatantly obvious to everyone) … “so we’re making another mode.”

Epic Fail. “Well we know that all you players had fun when you played deathmatch at BlizzCon, So we want to put it in, but we don’t believe that you guys truly had fun so we’re scrapping that idea for something else.” Blizzard knows best, they’ll iterate and iterate on this feature and when they release it, after testing it with people who no doubt haven’t even been with the company long enough to have played diablo from the the first game, this feature will be a flop like the launch of the game. It’s okay cause once it’s released to public they don’t have all the time in the world like they do before they let it out, and it will get fixed “soon.”

That’s the problem of Blizzard nowadays. We don’t need to think because they do that for us. But Blizz has proven with Diablo 3 that they can’t think.
They started years ago with the development and only now they found out that PvP doesn’t work? Come on, hire some professionals for your development team Blizz!!

My real concern is them trying to find a way to balance PvP. They did this for years in WoW and I am concerned they are going to implement some strange variation of the same shit.

Also, I am very confused as to why you could not duel from the beginning? Who cares if you are OP or canon fodder for the opposition? It means nothing, so why has it taken sOoooooo long for them to just let people duel?

Very sad for PvPers everywhere. Bring back the hostile button and call it a day.

I’m not sure why this (the lack of longevity for Team Deathmatch) wasn’t found out something like a year ago? Seems like a reasonable timeframe to me. Finding out this a while before release. Yet, here Blizzard are… Half a year after release, and now making this grand discovery. Huh. What was the QA team doing for PvP? If it lacked longevity, that should been immediately apparent from the alpha test gaming sessions… These are entire teams of people hired and paid to come up with this exact kind of feedback.

I really really wish jay wilson would stop deciding what I personally want in a game. he doesnt know a damn thing about the diablo community. yea…right…team death match is so boring and stale, thats why it clearly doesnt work in games like COD and battlefield. (<sarcasm). jay is a cancer to this game.

and what they have on offer currently in diablo 3 ISNT boring and stale? lol come on. tdm would be a jolt that could last easily months for some people. slap some achievements and rewards and xp and all that on top of it and people will flock to it. boring or not.

They really need to take care of all those different games and their markets:

Of course there is WOW, the milking cow of subscriptions which takes precedence over everything. Logical, but as a Diablo 3 fan hard to swollow…

But then there is the pure PvP mode of a game like SC2 on which they haven’t made a decent earning system, they really need something about this e-sport League. SC2 doesn’t interest me at all. Its mechanics is soooo old. I don’t see it becoming mainstream ever.

The upcoming DOTA like PvP game must also take its spotlight. If that one fails against DOTA2, I wonder if it will not be too late to make D3 a priority again…

So poor Diablo 3 is left without a decent PvP system.

It all seems logical, BUT games … are supposed to be “fun” and Hell…what a fantastic engine can be found behind Diablo 3.

D3 should have had a good PvP casual system. A pity they want to divide their games in different segments.

But Blizzard: it does not work this way: create games instead of markets.

It doesn’t bode well for Titan either: I wonder in which corner they will put this new MMO to not fall in one of the corners of all these previous trials…

What I don’t get is the comment (paraphrasing here) “We didn’t want to release a PVP system that did not live up to our standards.” They released a whole GAME that didn’t live up to their standards. What’s one more element? Give us what you’ve got, then try to make it better.

Also, when each of us bought the game, planned PVP was part of the deal. If they try to make that part of some future expansion, and not deliver promised services without further pay, I think we’ve got a class-action lawsuit on our hands.

“If they try to make that part of some future expansion,…”
only my guess:
Shortly before the expansion they will release a big patch, similar to world of warcraft xpacs. The big patch will include free pvp for everyone but it is useless without the expansion because you can’t compete without the new items / higher level.

Did you not read the post? Jay Wilson said that dueling is going to be a part of 1.07. What is dueling? A player vs. another player. Aka PVP. Please show me where Mr. Wilson promised Team Deathmatch or anything more with vanilla D3.

And class action lawsuit? Are you serious? This is the problem with people today. Everyone has this undeserved sense of entitlement, and when things don’t go their way, its time to sue. People like you make me sick.

I will just leave this here for anyone who actually wants to play a moba arena team pvp game. That requires skill only (skillshots) and is best of all free. Even at its highest heights of iteration, the Diablo franchise and any other game in its genre will never even scrape the polish that this product has already.

You can thank me later, if you have patience and can handle getting owned for your first 20 matches. Judging from typical dincgamers comment posters I forsee not many 😉

Stick a fork in Blizzard, they are done and clearly don’t know what the hell they are doing anymore. Go play Path of Exile folks, they know what they are doing and don’t take forever for patches,etc. It’s also free to play,has pvp arena matches, a ladder system and a whole bunch of other things that Diablo III does not.

Can’t wait for them to release actual PvP right before the expac. To try and attract players to this dead, awful game. This is absolutely hilarious, who takes SEVEN months + the 2 years prior to release to realize the mode wasn’t fun.

The whole blog is coated with their typical BS, that I can’t help but laugh at anymore. “Not up to our standards.” What happened on May 15th Jay?

This is so hilarious how the hell could take so long time? I have end up diablo3 for long time ago and sad for you who still playing, this game will be so fail with no pvp and no ladders, no new content…

Path of exile here we come, that game have everything i have wait for, and best is, “Path of exile is FREE =)

I have a feeling what they have in store for the first pvp release after dueling is going to be something weird like:

Your team vs another team in a time trial. You don’t face each other, but are however placed in an arena vs waves of enemies to see what team can do better. D3’s all about farming speed, why not challenge others to see who can survive and kill the fastest? Technically you’re playing vs other players, even if you’re not killing them. For added fun there can be bonus things that drop like health globs, that when picked up spawn monsters on the other side.

—

*less crazy part*: I imagine in the end, when pvp comes out it’ll be like shooter gamemodes. Time and tested modes like Capture the flag, Payload, Attack/defend and King of the hill. Stuff like that. Good games have objectives when it comes to killing your fellow man. As said in the post: d3’s pvp didn’t/doesn’t yet have that.

What happened to “We don’t want to promise something we cannot fulfill?” that we read about in every other post when people ask about the information on the upcoming updates ?!
You promised, now you lick it off !

They should go for PvP Battlegrounds like used in various MMOs. Capture the flag with teleport wizards (losing the flag on any movement ability might be an idea I guess…), what could possibly go wrong?

Not sure it really matters if anything goes wrong though. PvP balance is impossible, maybe best just to embrace the imbalance.

“as with all things Blizzard, we want to be sure that the features we add to Diablo III are actually worth it and will make the game better”

Hilarious! I keep reading that in Blizzard apologetic notes concerning Diablo 3 and look how the game turned out at release. So all the features present at that time were worth it and made the game better? lol

“put it in front of other developers within the company”… I hope these other developers you speak of are not the same WoW-strike team devs that came in and forced you to reinvent the skill interface in the last 9 to 12 months before release… these brainiacs shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near D3

Not that I give a rat’s ass about PVP, but the more people playing the game the better, since its more money in Mike’s pocket. The link in the first post to the PoE PVP, that is so shitty looking. That game has a little bit of potential, but watching that would make me stay far away from it.

Another feature from D2? Dueling? And seriously after all that time on the previews hyping/marketing the Arena, it gets scrapped to add the most basic form of PvP?

I mean… really? I have the lowest expectations about Diablo 3 and its devs but I must confess that this got me off-guard, I dont even… I dont even know what to say, I wasnt hyping the PvP all that much but the Arena videos looked like fun, it was dumb fun but the whole diablo franchise is about that, and even tho copying features from D2 seem like a good idea for D3, this was one thing that should NOT have been copied, the arena should have stayed. What harm could it possibilly do? What can dueling (mutual dueling btw) achieve that arenas with a simple score couldnt?

And seriously, are they really going to be so low that they will just add the arenas on the expansion? Or any kind of improved pvp? They will give us this rustic feature of a decade old-game, 7 months after one of the biggest development cycles in gamming history while scrapping their most hyped feature?

Sorry, I am running in cycles, I am just shocked, at least this trainwreck is entertaining to watch, in a morbid way since its the slow-death and torture of my favourite franchise ever but its certainly more fun than actually playing this thing which they dared to call it Diablo 3.

Well, that does it for me. The only thing that will bring me back now is a bot mode so I can farm without actually having to play this boring cat shit filled sandpit game. There is no way I can come back to D3 and DUEL competitively without spending $500+ bucks on the RMAH or a thousand hours farming. What a complete cock up!

The second will be if they implement a DOTA style PVP mode, which wont happen before the expansion, if ever, with Jay Puppet Fucktard, Pedofiling his way around Bliz HQ.

I guess Blizzards strategy for Diablo really is a test platform for their next Titan MMO. Lets all hope that Blizzard All-Stars is a standalone because the SC2 Arcade sucks a fat bag of dicks.

Let’s see i have spent over 2 BILLION this month upgrading for pvp thats $250+ real cash. So Jay do you think I care that when PVP comes out in 2014 it will be free? NO. What I care about is no pvp for 2013 Q1 or Q2 and probably not Q3.

Unbelievable, I’ve eaten my last shit sandwich from Blizz. After having a playable Arena system in place for 2 years we are going to get dueling “soon” because the shills at Blizz want to tell us how to have fun?

Geez people, Calm your horses. They said PvP will be part of core game, so save your expansion PvP bullshit. Jay gave wery straightforward and imho honest answer why PvP is not there yet. I gottta agree, PvP of type “go smash that wizards face with OP whirlwind barb” would not be fun at all, maybe few hours and thats it. So let them rather think something else and polish it, as they say “good things happen to those who wait patiently”.

lvl 50 – 82 paragon and 0 items worth anything so I disagree about those good things happening.

While I agree that it’s nice to see them thinking about more in depth PVP experiences the greater problem exists that the game is over 6 months old, PVP was planned to ship WITH the game prior to release and now 6 months later it has been put on the shelf. That it took 6 months POST release, when they initially planned pvp to be put out a couple months after release, to realize that arena deathmatch just isn’t “fun”… I honestly just facepalm at it all.

No doubt I believe that whatever pvp comes out will be more in depth than the team deathmatch, but team deathmatch isn’t suppose to be in depth.. its simple and crazy , which blows my mind they thought they could make it into something else… This is all just a disaster.

I work in software development and I’ve been trying really hard to make sense of many of the stuff that happened with the development of this game (the delays, the last minute system reworks, etc.) but honestly at this point I can’t really make up any great excuses…

There definitely is some major crap going on with this dev team. I guess we’ll find out in a few years time.

So much THIS… everything this team is doing wrong will make some “DO NOT” list during Titan development. Considering the D3 team screwed up ALMOST everything the players actually wanted Titan should be a masterpiece right? … RIGHT!?

I’m not holding my breath for “Titan”. I’m looking forward to an MMO, though (not necessarily from Blizzard), which gets rid of those weird, complicated skill rotations and pretty much offers just a handful of skills on the action bar like Diablo 3 (console-style).

Everything about this blog is hilariously FAIL. It took them a couple years to figure out something anybody could tell you without a second of playtesting? Pretty amazing, Jay. It’s like you *enjoy* being hated, LOL.

To all D1 and D2 veterans out there: do you still see this game as D3? For me Diablo 3 was only a project by Blizzard North. Diablo 3 doesn’t exist right now. There’s only this game and the only thing related to a Diablo game it’s the name. It´s time to move on people. I’m not gonna tell you what to play but i think there are better options out there for us D1 and D2 nerds.

I think D3 has beautiful graphics, awesome sound and music and fluid “action”-style gameplay.

However, i find it lacking in itemisation and level randomisation, which i personally value higher then the other aspects.

Oh yeah, and the story wasn’t really that good but who really cares?

I don’t think D3 taints the franchise, but it could definetly be better! I miss things like sitting down and theorycrafting wether i should put on Highlord’s or Cat’s Eye on my WF-Ama for an hour or so. Or learning about the different game mechanics to exploit. D3 feels so shallow.

The combat fluidity is the thing I value most on this game. Graphics are ok, but it’s not the most important thing to me. Sound and music are good, but I miss Matt Uelmen music. Matt’s music was very important to create that epic mood in d1/d2. Unfortunately a diablo game is more than this, and this game fails to deliver that epic package that made the previous titles. I respect the people behind d3, but they don’t know how to make this kind of game.

For me the series ended at D2: LOD. This game we have now does absolutely no justice to the franchise. Path of Exile is my spiritual successor to D2, no to mention the Devs there are 10000000000000000000000000000x better at coming up with an idea, letting the community know about (Actual communication with the fans even in-game!) and implementing it. They actual deliver on their promises and always have something exciting on the horizon.

I honestly don’t know wtf is going on at Blizzard but they have fallen from grace. It takes them AGES to do even the simplest things and they seem extremely wasteful by making/cutting tons of iterations. Like why the heck wasn’t dueling in at launch it literally boggles my mind how this game turned out.

A new company is required to communicate with fans to maintain their business and success. Blizzard rides on the fact that they are Blizzard and knows that it only takes the hype machine and past actions to get the box sells and generate cash flow on their other money schemes. They are a fucking worthless developer maintaining dominance only because of that, and will never develop anything substantial as long as they continue to do what they are doing.

Well that’s past! Noone will buy any Greedyvision/Blizzard product without thinking anymore.10 years of development and launching game without even PvP in it ? And also boring/empty game ? Obviously they SVCK. I mean come on even Super Mario is more addictive than D3.

The duel feature should have been in at ship. Dueling is fun for friends and is very informal. There does not need to be any complex matchmaking. The fact they waited til after xmas to announce the arena failure is incredibly shady. I can see why arena won’t work, just that they should have done the right thing and announced earlier.

People will gravitate toward the most efficient means of play, even if it is less fun overall. See alkazier runs.

What I mean is that coop pvp will not have staying power unless there are meaningful rewards. And if pvp is not balanced and there are rewards attached, everyone will make the fotm build to dominate, and pvp ceases to be fun for anyone. It has been repeatedly stated that the classes and items were never designed with pvp in mind. I don’t think the team deathmatch format can ever be balanced without a huge overhaul to how items and skills work.

I think a pvp/pve mix is the best way to make pvp work. A strictly pvp format will lead to very narrow builds and items focused on single target burst and kiting skills and also invincible tanky characters that do awful damage. Mixing in npcs on the battlefield will make fights longer in duration, meaning bursty builds will not be as effective. It also will make extremely tanky builds ineffective at completing objectives such as wiping out the opposing npcs.

Dueling… something that was in the code since launch and therefore should have been available since launch. Amount of work done on dueling the past 8 months. ZERO! They are giving people this because they are lazy and their battlegrounds system is failing spectacularly in the “testing” they have done which I’m sure isn’t even adequate given the design flaws that the last group of testers allowed through.

They got WORST INTERNAL TESTING GROUP EVER!!! I mean EVER! Do you remember D3 in the begining ? Bugged hit box,Unplayable characters(that means that in the begining only Wiz was playable because of his bugged skill, then DH, then others… after 3-4 patches.)There were scary gaps…unbelievable.The most stupid thing in the game makes you 1 hit. Even environment makes you 1 hit.
Im not sure to cry or laugh.Im pretty sure for 1 thing.No more Greedyvision/Blizzard products for me.Only if its 100% sure that is good one.
That means at least 3-4 mounts after release.Thats my lesson.I understand that every game is imbalanced in the begining.But that was just PATHETIC. Like they are total noobs.And if you remember they DELAY the whole game because they need to “polish it” because they are Blizzard … and they don’t sell craps.Well “good job”… i am impressed!

Sadly, but in my opinion we wont see any PvP system until itemization system and this failed weapon-only DPS system are both changed.
Taking so long to figure out that arenas doesnt work doesnt surprise me at all, again, sadly. It’s been seven month and we’ve got, like, a few twitches to skills while there are known issues with build diversity from the begining!
As I look back at design decicions, many are wrong. Inferno for the example – in a theory the ultimate, hardcore mode. In practice we just have 4th difficulty level which is similar to hell in D2:LoD. So at this moment we’re back to the old way, but there is this ‘colder’ hell… which happens to be an arcade mode, easier than normal when you just equip 700+ dps weapon with -lvl req! Also the concept of low level items doesnt exist, because why would anyone care? Your chars are low level only for a short period of time and then you have your unlimited builds (3 or 4 per class…) all in one char. Then we have this limited amount of an end-game legendaries, like one or two per slot. Oh, and remember what they were just after release? Oh, and remember when Jay said, that they *feel* the amount is right, similar to that from D2? This feels pathetic right now to me.

Itemization is shallow, skills are unbalanced – killing the build diversity, legendaries still suck, RNG system works against an ordinary player, NV buff caused rares to be more common than blues. Everything in this game EXCEPT the core engine, graphics and music is so wrong.
I am so disappointed 🙁
Even play-style diversity has ended in the era of D3. There is no more boss-running, no one-area farming, no whole game farming. No specializations – in :LoD i had a char for bass running, a char for rune hunting (cows or chaos sanc), a char for baalruns. Oh, remember the times, when you actualy HAD a chance to get a good loot from a chest from time to time. Not anymore, thanks rng 😉

How can PvP system can NOT be another failure? If the devs dont see or dont want to see that all this above is wrong?

I admit I had fun with Diablo 3. It has its pros. Its a good game. Fun, awesome, like Jay likes to say. Big, fat numbers and its pacey. Unfortunately, its not a classic. I feel like its been made to satisfy a casual console player, who just plays through the plot and buys a new game.
Bigest game disappointment of my life.

Seriously Blizzard… Who cares anymore ? Anyone still playing Diablo3 ?
They just can’t realize what a tremendous FAIL is Diablo3.That is HUGE hit, a very big black point on Blizzard reputation.
Blizzard = high quality producs… well that’s true anymore! And the problem is that everyone now knows it.You will se the real result of your fail when you try to sell your next product….D3Exp.I will never forgive you that you ruin my favorite game…. never i swear.

“We want to be able to carry over as many of the crazy runes, items, and skills as possible, with their crazy effects, and alter them as little as possible. “. That’s not what they said back in 2008 where they were keeping a separate system for PvE and PvP so the skills and runes may have different effects/functions. I can’t see taking a broken itemisation with runes and skills working too well unless its an ironman mode. AH items should be allowed as a separate match type imo, otherwise its simply buy to win.

I like non-cheating PvE more, that’s why I bought the online-game Diablo3.

I think the PvP in D3 comes with a ladder, so even bad plyers as myself will have some fun, however I will only play it occasionally…..

A I know alot of people who loved PvP in D2 and are just waiting for PvP in Diablo3. So yes for some people PvP will be kind of Endgame. However in Diablo2 top items only costed like 10-20€ on Ebay… ok in the start it might have been more. In D3 – a fresh game – Items on Ebay/Jsp are very very expensive, so…

Top ranks are of course Rmah-users or very hardcore players like Moldren/Avoidlol.

ps: keep in mind I see more negative thouhts in the internet, while happy players play the game and don’t want to read so much. So you are “lucky” I dropped by and gave my 2 cents, prolly not happy about not agreeing you lol.