Good to hear that Dugger came back as DF41+, he's part of the same cluster as McCrere [41-1411]. From looking at Alex Willamson's tree it looks like quite an old branching moment between them.

I'm also trying to get hold of Nuckolls in that variety to suggest a DF41 test possibly followed up by a L563 test if DF41 is positive. We're running out of options for getting L563 out of the private status. Dugger is L563-.

Has an L744+ person tested for L563 or is it on order for one of them?

Good to hear that Dugger came back as DF41+, he's part of the same cluster as McCrere [41-1411]. From looking at Alex Willamson's tree it looks like quite an old branching moment between them.

I'm also trying to get hold of Nuckolls in that variety to suggest a DF41 test possibly followed up by a L563 test if DF41 is positive. We're running out of options for getting L563 out of the private status. Dugger is L563-.

Has an L744+ person tested for L563 or is it on order for one of them?

According to your spredsheet, 143035 Stewart is L744+, L563-. This matches up with David's WTY PDF. :-)

Good to hear that Dugger came back as DF41+, he's part of the same cluster as McCrere [41-1411]. From looking at Alex Willamson's tree it looks like quite an old branching moment between them.

I'm also trying to get hold of Nuckolls in that variety to suggest a DF41 test possibly followed up by a L563 test if DF41 is positive. We're running out of options for getting L563 out of the private status. Dugger is L563-.

Has an L744+ person tested for L563 or is it on order for one of them?

According to your spredsheet, 143035 Stewart is L744+, L563-. This matches up with David's WTY PDF. :-)

-Kai

Also just to complete the circle L563+ is confirmed as L744- (35212 -- Creer). The 1426c's are confirmed as L744-/L746- and L563- (29705 -- McCown)

Well, I got my DF41+ result this morning, about a week after my kit went to the lab. My cluster brother Webb, kit 163684, also got a DF41+ result.

All the other DF41 results in the R-L21 Plus Project that I saw this morning were negative, unfortunately, but not all of the pending results have been posted yet.

I haven't had time yet to check much of anything else, because I am about to leave for work.

Not unexpected of course, but good news nevertheless !!

I sure more positive results will be coming in shortly.

Thanks, Dave. It was welcome news to me, since I had a tiny sliver of doubt about the whole thing that is now dispelled.

Self hasn't received his DF41 result yet, and he should be positive. I don't know about the rest. Some of the ones I expected to be positive, like MacPhee and Hosie, are not, and my theory about 534<=14 as a good indicator of DF41+ status is in danger of going completely down the drain.

But that's okay. I and my little cluster are DF41+, and that's a good thing. It feels like turning off the main highway and down a pleasant, tree-lined country lane.

Congrats on the result Rich, it further confirms your cluster position within DF41. On other news interesting enough I see that Erwin (42048) who is very close to the Stewarts (7 @ 67 STR's) came back as DF41-!

Either a case of "convergent evolution" or there has been a mistake at the lab. Opinions?

Well, I got my DF41+ result this morning, about a week after my kit went to the lab. My cluster brother Webb, kit 163684, also got a DF41+ result.

All the other DF41 results in the R-L21 Plus Project that I saw this morning were negative, unfortunately, but not all of the pending results have been posted yet.

I haven't had time yet to check much of anything else, because I am about to leave for work.

Congrats Rich. So, what individuals and clusters are DF41 so far? Do the links fit what you thought or are they surprising?

It surprised me. I fully expected to be DF13** before my cluster brother Cooper got his DF41+ result.

I'm not sure of the names of all of Mike's clusters. I think he calls mine 41-1123 (the 41 is for DF41+).

Of course, one of the interesting things is the celebrity aspect of DF41, since the Royal House of Stewart has been proven to be DF41+, but I doubt the Duke of Buccleuch will be inviting me to tea anytime soon (although I will accept if he reads this and decides to do so). The Stewarts are L744+ and L745+ in addition to being DF41+.

The DF41+ category is on the last page of y-dna results at the R-L21 Plus Project web site.

There are five who list Ireland as ancestral homeland, five who list Scotland, five who list "United Kingdom", and two who list England. One of those UK guys has ancestry on the Isle of Man. The rest, including me, list "Unknown Origin". There is a Williams in the R-DF41 Project who identifies Wales as his ancestral homeland, but he isn't in the R-L21 Plus Project or at least hasn't made it into the DF41+ category yet, anyway.

There is also a Welsh Thomas out there somewhere who is supposed to be L745+ without being a Stewart or having their haplotype.

Congrats on the result Rich, it further confirms your cluster position within DF41. On other news interesting enough I see that Erwin (42048) who is very close to the Stewarts (7 @ 67 STR's) came back as DF41-!

Either a case of "convergent evolution" or there has been a mistake at the lab. Opinions?

Congrats on the result Rich, it further confirms your cluster position within DF41. On other news interesting enough I see that Erwin (42048) who is very close to the Stewarts (7 @ 67 STR's) came back as DF41-!

Either a case of "convergent evolution" or there has been a mistake at the lab. Opinions?

-Paul(DF41+)

Convergence, Exactly! I dont know if these others were considered or not but they are all on the same main branch.

Erwin 42028 is in the 1511 group out on a same twig with: E11062 Tatard R-L21 1511 France,

Well, I got my DF41+ result this morning, about a week after my kit went to the lab. My cluster brother Webb, kit 163684, also got a DF41+ result.

All the other DF41 results in the R-L21 Plus Project that I saw this morning were negative, unfortunately, but not all of the pending results have been posted yet.

I haven't had time yet to check much of anything else, because I am about to leave for work.

Two levels shed in a matter of a few months? I'm jealous!!!

Congrats.

It is pretty mind-bending. It seemed like I was R-M269* forever and then, beginning at the end of 2008, R-L21* forever. Finally, at the end of July, 2012, b*a*n*g!, I'm DF13+, and now, b*a*n*g again!, I'm DF41+.

I am grateful to you and your 1000 Genomes compadres for the fine work uncovering these new SNPs.

So, you have DF41 at just over 2,000 years old, but, given the margin of error, it's more accurate to say it's between 2,000 and 3,000 years old, correct?

Yes the variance is a bit wider without the Stu's causing the age to be a bit higher. Founders age is what should be used due to missing and unknown Hts.

I noticed that when using 111 markers the age calculation provides a noticeble decrease in an age of a clade which I believe is a more accurate result. 111 markers should be the standard for dating clades.

MikeW's feature in his Gen Estimator Time chart shows the age in thousands.DF41 All Founders Age

Remember this goofy article? Sifting through its rubbish trying to find something interesting, I noticed this sentence, referring to the Duke of Buccleuch's y-dna test results:

Quote

The duke’s genetic marker is thought to take the story back to south-west England, suggesting that the Stewarts were originally Cornishmen.

Alistair Moffat appears to be the source of that information. At first, I thought he was referring to the Stewarts' Breton ancestry and making the assumption that most Bretons must be descended from 5th century British refugees from Cornwall. But then I began to wonder, does Scotland's DNA, which I understand is soon to become "Britain's DNA", have some data on Cornishmen that we don't know about?

How frequent is DF41 in Cornwall and the rest of SW England? How about Wales?