I am a bit shy to make my first post, though reading this and many other threads for some time, I would like your consideration. Now I am planning a voyage from Hawaii to Japan (my home), and I will purchase a boat in Hon. or NA West Coast, of 34' or under, due to budget.

My question concerns heavy weather. It has been mentioned that fin keels do not heave to. Comments? Also mentioned was that this could be ameliorated with a drogue (like Jordan series)? For the solo or short-handed skipper, in a smaller boat, would the ability of the boat to heave to be a) crucial, b) important, or c) solved by other means?

Of course I would love some recommendations of a used boat suitable to the task for < $25K prior to outfitting. There are not so many choices, right? But would you advise me to ignore any/all fin keels in whatever combination? There is a real appeal in making a speedy passage -- in fact I am wanting to deliver the boat (to myself) in Japan, where it will enjoy its future life, with coastal and offshore work. I am not a circumnavigator, or live-aboard person.

As for sailing experience, offshore experience is limited. I crew on a 37' Jeanneau Sun Odyssey sailing in the Japan Sea, in Southern Kyushu. I do like the idea of weathering battened down in my cabin, reading a book, if it comes to that (or just hanging on).

Last, just to mention, some sort of fin+skeg rudder combination appeals to me (particularly for later coastal use), but I would not want to be foolish. Would you? If you can't heave to with a smaller fin keeled boat, can it be recommended for my (or trans-Pacific offshore) use?

Hi DA, welcome to Sailnet. As your post is fairly general in future you may wish to start your own thread.

On heaving to, fin keels can be more difficult to setup compared to long keel yachts, however it really depends on the vessel. Some people suggest using a sea anchor to assist yachts that do not heave too easily. The Book "Storm Tactics" by Lin & Larry Pardey gives a good description of the options and process. I would suggest this issue is somewhere beween "important" / to "solve by other means", ie a Jorden series drogue is an alternative.

However based on your post, I would suggest that obtaining further experience is probably more desirable, ie crew on someone else's yacht first. This is a lot cheaper and there are always yachts looking for crew. I'm about to fly to the South Pacific to spend six weeks crewing on a yacht. During these trips you can work out for yourself what sort of yacht appeals to you.

Thank you Ilenart, for the welcome. I am a bit mystified by your seeming "shrug"? My post is quite on the topic under purview, which has to do with the merits of fin vs. full keels, or am I mistaken. That you have responded in part "somewhere between "important"..." would seem to confirm this. Obviously I do not have your experience. I asked a pertinent question because I am seeking expertise. By the way I am also a reader. I have read in the last month various books concerning the 1979 Fastnet tragedy, and have Coles' "Heavy Weather Sailing" by the crook of my arm. I presented a real-world situation, which I am facing. I doubt I will be able to acquire further experience than I am already involved in. But do please move on, everyone, if my newbie post is passť.

Depending upon cost, the SO37 that you are currently sailing on HAS crossed many an ocean. In fact one year it had more of these models doing the ARC than any other model. Granted the atlantic can at times be less of an issue than the pacific.....but that is another issue all together.

There is usually 3-6+ for sale on the west coast of the NA from Scal up into the BC area at any one times. Other models that might work from Jeanneau are the SO 34.2, 36.2, 37.x and larger models that are with int he last 15 yrs or so. The sunshine 36/38 has also crossed many an ocean too.

Reality is, many of the more recent boats can and do cross oceans. A fellow on here took an Ericson from the LA or SF area to Australia. I know of a person with a J37c that went from Seattle where I am down to Mexico a couple of yr ago, still down that way.

At the end of the day, get as much sailing experience on the so37 you are sailing in as many wind conditions as you can, including the day you really do not want to go out, ie too windy in you mind, as you may get caught out in the ocean in worst conditions.

Does everyone agree with Lou452 (post 287) : “Well men if you wish to know what a newbee is getting from this thread is that Full or Fin is a matter of choice. The Full might seem to be a little more steady or need less trim under way for a longer time period. It has less draft. The Fin may go better in very light wind and turn just a little faster. Both are as safe and capable as the crew on board.”

“Both are as safe and capable …” Agreed or not? I am wondering the same thing as the OP, regarding fin vs. full keel. I am concerned in particular with potential heavy weather trans-oceanic (Pacific) sailing, regarding keels.

It was suggested earlier that boats of equal displacement should be compared, rather than boats of equal length; it was also suggested that “the biggest difference between fin and full keel boats is that fin keel boats are much lighter, that is the point...to compare boats of the same size and different weights is a more accurate comparison… a typical weight fin of the same size as a typical weight full is about half.” (post 254)

Pragmatically, I would compare by cost (which would include adapting/outfitting an older boat for the stated purpose). What type of boat should I spend my money on, commit to, for my intended purpose (Marty, I’m not focused on a Jeaneau - thanks for your information though). At a given price range there are various keel options available. My length limit of roughly 34’ feet relates to cost/performance, among other factors, including potential physical requirements. I don’t suppose there is a clear answer, but I do wonder about heavy weather sailing in “smaller” boats (representing the largest number of solo/hhort-handed circumnavigators, it seems).

Assuming good build quality and equipment I agree that "Both are as safe and capable as the crew on board."

In light airs the fin should be able to sail well with light sails - the heavy full keel boat not so much. The heavier the boat the larger the sails and the heavier the gear on deck as well, as the loads are higher.

There are a great many fin keel boats out there crossing oceans- probably a lot more than full keel boats - at this time. I am not advocating an extreme fin - but a moderate one.

My comment about comparing equal weight boats makes sense if you are building new mostly as boats price by the pound more or less. I would much sooner have a 40' fin keel boat than a 30' full keel boat that weighs the same.

As it was said by Marty and Ilenart is not so much about the boat but about your skills. As It was said by everybody first you should get a lot of experience before doing a voyage like that. While you get that experience you will sail different kinds of boats, their cost and can have an idea of what kind of boat you prefer or can afford.

I also donít understand why you talk about a 34ft related to budget. First you have to have a budget and then find the boat that fits your budget.

As others have said you should open a thread about your specific problem, related with your budget, best places to learn sailing and so on.

As it was said repeatedly on this thread, seaworthiness has not to do with a boat having a fin or full keel, however if your budget is really small you can be restricted to buying a really old boat and the chances are that one would be a full keel.

Open a thread about that, lots of guys have experience about old inexpensive boats that with some work and money can be made seaworthy again.

The main purpose of the fin keeled cruising boat, sometimes called a "racer/cruiser" is to emulate the high performance of the racing boats. As with everything in boats there a comprimises...as you approach the performance of a racer, more work is nessesary to handle the boat and the more uncomfortable the boat becomes in nasty weather. The "classic bluewater boat" is a heavy displacement full keel, they are easy to handle, comfortable in nasty weather, though are not super high performance. As with the fin as you approach the extremes of the design both the advantages as well as the disadvantages increase. In the case of my boat it is not a big fat ocean cruiser that can't get out of it's own way in a calm, she is fast in all winds and easy motion in nasty....but likes to heel alot and has a narrow beam with a tight cabin...I am happy with her.

I think your boat is a classic ocean cruiser of 75 years ago, narrow, and not spacious.

I think boats like the one shown below are considered by many to be a more fitting "classic" ocean cruiser that has the comfort attributes of the past, more room, more speed, and easy handling. Not extreme in design and not mired in the past.

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