Vancouver Canucks Messageboard

Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Re: Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:31 pm

by Jovocop

Groovypippin wrote:

Jovocop wrote:Besides Tanev, Corrado, and Subban, can you name another defense prospect that has top-four potential? Sauve seems more like a bust. Polasek, Andersson and Tommernes might one day be top-six but could very be busts as well...

Frankly, I'm quite happy with three potential top six defencemen in our system, especially with our current top 4D in the prime and locked up to longish term deals. 3rd pairing NHL defencemen are not exactly impossible to find. What's the rush?

I don't quite understand this obsession with having oodles of high end prospects in our system when:

a) We have been an elite franchise for the last number of years with a correspondingly low drafting position.
b) We have no current place to slot any of these folks in our actual NHL line-up

I'm not arguing that having elite prospect talent is a bad thing. That would be rather silly. I just wonder where you're supposed to find all the folks when drafting at 22,23,24,25,26 etc drafting position.

I like the Detroit development approach. Lot's of seasoning in the minors before breaking into the NHL. Seems to work wonders for them. Maybe Detroit fans also sit around and grouse about their prospect system and why shiny new objects aren't being rushed into their NHL line-up - but I kind of doubt it.

With the salary cap, home-grown elite players are very important. Out of the three prospects, Corrado is the only one that has the highest potential to be a top-four. Tanev is a solid defenseman but that is pretty much about it. Subban, the only problem is his size. If he can grow a few inches and add 10-20 lbs, he has the potential to be a top-four. However, he might have a hard time cracking the lineup with his current size. Would it be nice to have one or two more defensive prospects that has top-four potential?

Re: Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:08 pm

by RoyalDude

Lmao at the thinking that the 5' -9"er Subban has top 4 NHL potential. It would be comical watching him play D in front of the net against the likes of Lucic

Re: Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:12 pm

by RoyalDude

Potatoe1 wrote:

RoyalDude wrote:

I don't mind Cassels, does look good, could be a Sam Gagner type

LOL, nothing like Gagner. Perhaps one of the worst comparisons I have heard.

Ok, how about Tyler Bozak? Is that a better comparison?

Re: Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:15 pm

by Jovocop

RoyalDude wrote:Lmao at the thinking that the 5' -9"er Subban has top 4 NHL potential. It would be comical watching him play D in front of the net against the likes of Lucic

Tanev grew six inches in his final year of junior. Not saying that it happens all the time but it is not completely impossible.

Re: Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:18 pm

by Madcombinepilot

Can the masses jump any father off the cliff???

Just a couple of seasons ago we had 1 legit prospect In the entire system.

Now we have a half dozen, appear to have a rational plan for years 3-6 down the road, and we we are still not happy???

Is here any chance that someday, Canuck fan expectations can take on a realistic approach??

Or is the media and average fan too homerish to manage our expectations???

Re: Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:35 pm

by RoyalDude

Jovocop wrote:

RoyalDude wrote:Lmao at the thinking that the 5' -9"er Subban has top 4 NHL potential. It would be comical watching him play D in front of the net against the likes of Lucic

Tanev grew six inches in his final year of junior. Not saying that it happens all the time but it is not completely impossible.

Like I said, bring Subban to my attention if he reaches 6'-0", if he doesn't, the 5 niner is Europe bound. Or if he learns to scrap and gets moved to playing forward like Scott Walker, then I may take notice.

Re: Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:39 pm

by RoyalDude

Madcombinepilot wrote:Can the masses jump any father off the cliff???

Just a couple of seasons ago we had 1 legit prospect In the entire system.

Now we have a half dozen, appear to have a rational plan for years 3-6 down the road, and we we are still not happy???

Is here any chance that someday, Canuck fan expectations can take on a realistic approcach??

Or is the media and average fan to homerish to manage expectations???

No, just realistic expectations. I'm just bugging Potatoe about Cassels, cause Potatoe was really high on Jeff Tambellini, similar style player and position as Cassels, and NHL lineage. I like this Cassels kid, but seriously people Subban is 5 foot fucking 9, give it a rest.

I like Horvat, pretty much the first sure fire propspect we've had since, um, can't remember. Kesler?
Gaunce has serious skating issues and a serious lack of agility on his skates, but I'm holding out hope
Shinkaruk is rail thin and not very tall, but I'm holding out hope,
Not sure what to make of Jensen, there are issues with his game that may not translate well to the NHL
Love Corrado
Don't think much about the rest

Re: Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:54 pm

by Jovocop

RoyalDude wrote:

Madcombinepilot wrote:Can the masses jump any father off the cliff???

Just a couple of seasons ago we had 1 legit prospect In the entire system.

Now we have a half dozen, appear to have a rational plan for years 3-6 down the road, and we we are still not happy???

Is here any chance that someday, Canuck fan expectations can take on a realistic approcach??

Or is the media and average fan to homerish to manage expectations???

No, just realistic expectations. I'm just bugging Potatoe about Cassels, cause Potatoe was really high on Jeff Tambellini, similar style player and position as Cassels, and NHL lineage. I like this Cassels kid, but seriously people Subban is 5 foot fucking 9, give it a rest.
I like Horvat, pretty much the first sure fire propspect we've had since, um, can't remember. Kesler?
Gaunce has serious skating issues and a serious lack of agility on his skates, but I'm holding out hope
Shinkaruk is rail thin and not very tall, but I'm holding out hope,
Not sure what to make of Jensen, there are issues with his game that may not translate well to the NHL
Love Corrado
Don't think much about the rest

Do you agree that Subban has some offensive skills? The only problem is his lack of size. He is only 18 years old and might grow an inch or two in a year or two and put on another 10-15 lbs. If that is the case, would you call him a prospect with top-four potential??

Re: Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:05 pm

by RoyalDude

I don't care if he has offensive skills, Steve Kariya had offensive skills, Ryan Shannon had offensive skills, just like a billion other shrimp junior league players with amazing offensive skills. Unfortunately, in todays game especially, making the grade is extremely difficult for shrimps like Subban. This is nothing new, I did not make this shit up.

Re: Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:47 pm

by Potatoe1

RoyalDude wrote:
Ok, how about Tyler Bozak? Is that a better comparison?

Nope, also terrible.

Perhaps you should watch them play a shift or 2 before making comparisons....

Re: Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:56 pm

by Potatoe1

RoyalDude wrote:
No, just realistic expectations. I'm just bugging Potatoe about Cassels, cause Potatoe was really high on Jeff Tambellini, similar style player and position as Cassels, and NHL lineage.

I was never "high" on Jeff, I was simply rooting for him due to a personal relationship. Have said as much many times.

And again, Cassels and Tambellni are nothing a like. Wow are your comparisons bad.

Cassels is 6'0 at 18, when Jeff was that age he was prob 5'7 or 8. Further to that Jeff was a pure skill player. Cassels is a bottom6 type.

Re: Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:04 pm

by RoyalDude

Potatoe1 wrote:

RoyalDude wrote:
No, just realistic expectations. I'm just bugging Potatoe about Cassels, cause Potatoe was really high on Jeff Tambellini, similar style player and position as Cassels, and NHL lineage.

I was never "high" on Jeff, I was simply rooting for him due to a personal relationship. Have said as much many times.

And again, Cassels and Tambellni are nothing a like. Wow are your comparisons bad.

Cassels is 6'0 at 18, when Jeff was that age he was prob 5'7 or 8. Further to that Jeff was a pure skill player. Cassels is a bottom6 type.

lol...I know Pot, I'm just being an ass...to be honest, I'm pretty jacked about the future of this team now, finally we got a decent crop of good young prospects to look forward to.

Re: Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:49 pm

by Per

RoyalDude wrote:

Jovocop wrote:

RoyalDude wrote:Lmao at the thinking that the 5' -9"er Subban has top 4 NHL potential. It would be comical watching him play D in front of the net against the likes of Lucic

Tanev grew six inches in his final year of junior. Not saying that it happens all the time but it is not completely impossible.

Like I said, bring Subban to my attention if he reaches 6'-0", if he doesn't, the 5 niner is Europe bound. Or if he learns to scrap and gets moved to playing forward like Scott Walker, then I may take notice.

One word: Rafalski

Re: Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:53 am

by dbr

RoyalDude wrote:Lmao at the thinking that the 5' -9"er Subban has top 4 NHL potential. It would be comical watching him play D in front of the net against the likes of Lucic

Of course it would. It's comical watching any defenseman play to their weaknesses and get totally outclassed, like say NHL All Star Tobias Enstrom in a similar situation (in front of the net w. Lucic) or say Willie Mitchell trying not to get beat wide by Patrick Kane.

As for the folks saying "all Subban needs is to grow a few inches" it's so far out of the realm of possibility that it probably isn't worth much consideration. What's more likely is that he adds an inch and a quarter, ends up listed at 5'11 like Kevin Shattenkirk, Grant Clitsome, Keith Ballard, Stephane Robidas, Mark Streit, Dan Boyle, Marek Zidlicky, Greg Zanon, Andrew Ference and Alex Goligoski are.

Or even more likely, he doesn't grow at all and they list him at 5'10 anyways (like Lubo Visnovski, Kimmo Timonen, Ian White, Brian Campbell, JM Liles, Tobias Enstrom are).

Hey can you guys imagine Brian Campbell trying to fight off Milan Lucic in front of the net? What a fucking waste of a draft pick.

RoyalDude wrote:Like I said, bring Subban to my attention if he reaches 6'-0", if he doesn't, the 5 niner is Europe bound. Or if he learns to scrap and gets moved to playing forward like Scott Walker, then I may take notice.

In fairness Subban could slap you in the face like posters here so frequently do with fact-based, well reasoned arguments and you still wouldn't notice.

Re: Young Stars Tournament and Related Musings

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:37 am

by RoyalDude

dbr wrote:

RoyalDude wrote:Lmao at the thinking that the 5' -9"er Subban has top 4 NHL potential. It would be comical watching him play D in front of the net against the likes of Lucic

Of course it would. It's comical watching any defenseman play to their weaknesses and get totally outclassed, like say NHL All Star Tobias Enstrom in a similar situation (in front of the net w. Lucic) or say Willie Mitchell trying not to get beat wide by Patrick Kane.

As for the folks saying "all Subban needs is to grow a few inches" it's so far out of the realm of possibility that it probably isn't worth much consideration. What's more likely is that he adds an inch and a quarter, ends up listed at 5'11 like Kevin Shattenkirk, Grant Clitsome, Keith Ballard, Stephane Robidas, Mark Streit, Dan Boyle, Marek Zidlicky, Greg Zanon, Andrew Ference and Alex Goligoski are.

Or even more likely, he doesn't grow at all and they list him at 5'10 anyways (like Lubo Visnovski, Kimmo Timonen, Ian White, Brian Campbell, JM Liles, Tobias Enstrom are).

Hey can you guys imagine Brian Campbell trying to fight off Milan Lucic in front of the net? What a fucking waste of a draft pick.

RoyalDude wrote:Like I said, bring Subban to my attention if he reaches 6'-0", if he doesn't, the 5 niner is Europe bound. Or if he learns to scrap and gets moved to playing forward like Scott Walker, then I may take notice.

In fairness Subban could slap you in the face like posters here so frequently do with fact-based, well reasoned arguments and you still wouldn't notice.