‘The era of the Palestinian state is over’ — Israeli right celebrates Trump win

We will be keeping tabs here on the Israel/Palestine related news coming out of the staggering election results in the United States last night, with many updates to follow:

Rightwing Jewish leader Naftali Bennett, Israel’s education minister and head of the Jewish Home party, saw unequivocal meaning in the Trump victory:

Trump’s victory is a tremendous opportunity for Israel to immediately announce its intention to renege on the idea of establishing Palestine in the heart of the country – a direct blow to our security and the justice of our cause.
This is the president-elect’s outlook as it appears in his platform, and that definitely should be our way. Salient, simple and clear. The era of the Palestinian state is over.”

Warm greetings to the president of the biggest strongest superpower of the world, Donald J. Trump!

The American democracy has voted today to place at its helm an American leader, who has taught the commentators and the skeptics that we are in a new era of change and the replacement of old ruling elites!

You have done the unexpected against all odds, polls and studies and the prophets of the old era.

I am convinced that the security and economic alliance with our strong and important ally will continue and be strengthened under your presidency.

Good luck to you, Donald J. Trump.

Ali Abunimah observes at Electronic Intifada that Clinton would have been an “anti-Palestinian extremist” as president, and panderer to her donors, and while no one is sure what Trump will do,

The Israeli counterparts of these vile American racists are celebrating Trump’s victory today.

Jewish Insider quotes several pro-Israel voices saying that President Obama will now do nothing to advance the so-called peace process at the United Nations. For instance centrist-setttler Zionist Yossi Klein Halevi:

“If Obama does go to the UN, it will be a fit of pique that will have no positive consequences. It would be Obama throwing a temper tantrum. If I were Obama waking up to the news today, the last thing on my mind would be the Palestinian issue. Obama is looking at the ruin of Obamacare, at a very shaky Iran deal, and some other of his key initiatives. If he goes to the UN, he will just be compounding his failure on the peace process.”

As for the Iran deal, which Trump has promised to rip up, the conventional wisdom is already forming that Trump will not be able to undo the deal, in its many international dimensions anyway. Aaron David Miller at Jewish Insider:

[A] Trump Administration will adopt a kind of if ‘it ain’t broke don’t try to fix it’ mentality to any relationship that isn’t in need of immediate attention. Relations post Obama are likely to improve as Trump’s hostility to the Iran nuclear deal increases and any pressure on Israel with respect to the Palestinian issue diminishes, Expect Netanyahu to come to the White House before Passover.

Rebecca Vilkomerson of Jewish Voice for Peace issued a statement of solidarity with those who feel threatened by Trump.

To everyone whose safety and rights are at stake, I am with you. I will lay it all on the line with you and for you.

As an American, a white one, I’ve always felt safe. I’ve always assumed my country would be stable… I’m not leaving America. It’s my country. I have to fight – every American Jew has to fight – to protect the American Muslims who right now must be terrified beyond belief… I still love America to my core. But I don’t trust it in the same way.

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I guess all Clinton’s pandering to the pro-Israel lobby didn’t help her.

As horrible as she is, I’m sorry she lost, because of all the other issues, like climate change and health-care.

I don’t think Trump is capable of being more than a mouth-piece, but after all, in one of the debates, he presented a slightly more accurate idea of who was fighting who in Syria. Someone must have fed him that, because it’s clear he doesn’t know what he’s talking about in general.

While the Israeli right-wing may have an affinity for Trump just as the KKK, who knows what direction he’ll go?

In fact, I blame the Israeli lobby a good measure for the Democrat’s downfall. I think Obama has always been seen by them as not pro-Israel enough, and because the lobby has such a lock on the party insiders, they didn’t get behind him, or let him campaign for them in 2014. The consequence was they lost both houses, and Obama faced yet more obstructionism.

“The distance between bibi’s government and the israel majority it represents and liberal Zionist American jews who voted with the minorities against trump will only increase as a result of the “hug”.” YF

Do explain Yonah—what exactly is a “Liberal Zionist”. Isn,t that a contradiction in terms.

“Trump’s victory is a tremendous opportunity for Israel to immediately announce its intention to renege on the idea of establishing Palestine in the heart of the country – a direct blow to our security and the justice of our cause. This is the president-elect’s outlook as it appears in his platform, and that definitely should be our way. Salient, simple and clear. The era of the Palestinian state is over”

These crackpot Zionist settlers have been clapping and dancing their way towards a single Apartheid state for years now and with the Yahoo beholden to them will in the very near future realise their from The Med to the Jordan Biblical Paradise – yes those pesky smelly untermensch Palestinians will continue to be a nuisance but they will come up with some sort of Final Solution in due course etc. Not sure about the”Palestine in the heart of the country ” reference – perhaps they plan to build an artificial offshore island , round them all up into temporary ghettos and progressively ship them all there in cattle boats . That would be a revolutionary approach and hey they may even get Congressional support for several billion dollars more a year to finance it. And who knows what next ? Conquering and settling Biblical Mesopatamia perhaps ? All the while sticking up their middle finger to the world. The sky is the limit when you are batshit crazy.

It will be good to move past thinly gilded veil of a 2SS. Even with Trump’s victory, the majority of Americans will not support Israeli style apartheid. Hilary would have supported that mirage.

Doesn’t mean Trump won’t be any better – but it’ll advance the debate forward; Obama did his job on that basis (creating distance so that the debate can be possible) despite being ham-stringed in so many ways.

It would be more historically accurate to say, from the perspective of 1947 (official declaration by the Allied counsel that the state of Prussia no longer exists, thus confirming facts on the ground): “The era of the Prussian state is over” – Victorious Allies celebrate Hitler’s defeat.

Not that Hitler was Prussian. But his country of birth, the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, had already been dismembered and abolished by the Versailles treaty, thus allowing for the re-establisment of a Polish state (among others), even though the lion share of 18th “Poland”, a multi-ethnic and multi-religious European state, and not a nation state, had been part of Russia) . And Prussia was already the focus of the Anglo-American-French-Russian war on Imperial Germany in WW I. WW II was just a continunation and variation )Italy and Japan switching sides, Turkey and Ireland staying out of it) of that older conflict.

In 1945, Prussia was divided between the Soviet Union, Poland, Belgium, East Germany (Soviet occupation zone), and Berlin (occupied until the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 by France, GB, US, USSR). Former Prussian territory annexed by the SU and Poland were ethnically cleansed of pretty much the entire German population, considered then and now as a massive crime against humanity in obvious violations to the principles pronounced at the Nuremberg tribunal

Or you could say, from the perspective of Sept/Oct 1939: “The era of the Polish state is over” – Hitler and Stalin celebrate their victory over the ‘hideous offspring of Versailles’ (Molotov)

There is still a German Right, rising in popularity. Abolishing Poland is not on their agenda, and actually never has been. In fact, there are plenty of Poles and Russians today (as German or EU citizens) who are active members or enthusiastic supporters of the AFD whose xenophobia is very focussed on Muslim immigration from MENA.

Unlike earlier incarnations of “Poland”, post-war Poland is the most homogenous nation state in Europe, and the most xenophobic. Religion (Catholicism) is at least as relevant for Polish identity as is the case in Israel (where jewish or secular liberalism and various forms of religious orthodoxy as well as bigotry coexist to an extent Poland seems incapable of managing) Also presently ruled by an extremely right wing party. Compared to Poland, Israel, with a non-Jewish minority of some 30% within the Green Line, is a rather shining example of tolerance and peaceful coexistence.

Your comment perpetuates the old false narrative of an innocent Polish victim annihilated by German right-wing aggression. That’s only half of the truth given that inter-war Poland was an expansionist, aggressive and eliminationist (against neighobring states and domestic minorities) state run by a military dictatoship, and that plans to eliminate Poland, or render her impotent, span from Napoleon to FDR, and include both Stalin and Hitler. FDR was quite happy to subject the Poles to Stalin’s iron rule, and privately complained about them as a “difficult people, at home (in the US) and abroad (In Europe)”. Churchill told them at Yalta to put up and shut up.

It would not surprise me at all if a OSS , giving Palestinians in the OT full citizenship, and Israel full licence to deal with domestic terrorism , Palestinian or Jewish, as they see fit, should find widespread consensus in the US and Europe

“That’s only half of the truth given that inter-war Poland was an expansionist, aggressive and eliminationist (against neighobring states and domestic minorities) state run by a military dictatoship, and that plans to eliminate Poland, or render her impotent, span from Napoleon to FDR, and include both Stalin and Hitler.”

I certainly wouldn’t hold my breath if I were Netanyahu and friends. They quite obviously haven’t been listening very carefully to Trump.

Apart from the fact that he is an uncontrollable and uncontainable liar, his isolationist vision for the US coupled with his VERY clear message to US allies, including NATO, that THEY should be paying for their protection (not vice versa) should be seen as a direct threat to that $38 billion check Israel is receiving. He was very careful to not mention Israel by name during any of his speeches (preferring to mention the Saudis who receive little to no direct financial aid), but it was certainly the elephant in the room. Even if the MOU with Israel were to survive his greater vision, I can’t seen the $1.5 billion and $1 billion in aid to Egypt and Jordan surviving, which would give them absolutely no reason to cooperate with Israel diplomatically or militarily in regard to keeping the Palestinians captive and isolated.

Netanyahu & Co. might just get the Embassy moved to Jerusalem, by what they risk losing in the long run is faaaaaar greater than one hollow and symbolic victory.

the annexation of the west bank must be put to referendum by both israeli’s and arabs.vote yes for meaningful change must be given a chance.that process was introduced by a republican president in south africa.a decision on one state or two state must be decided on in 2017.

It will definitely be interesting to see what Trump does with his public pledge to recognize Jerusalem as capital of Israel. I doubt he even knew when he said it why no official foreign embassy is located in Jerusalem now.

Btw. has anybody noticed the hypocracy that an education minister of a state can be happy, that the era of another state is gone, but if someone wants the same happen to Israel the Hasbara trolls call it “antisemitism” and “hatred”?!

|| Talkback: Btw. has anybody noticed the hypocracy that an education minister of a state can be happy, that the era of another state is gone, but if someone wants the same happen to Israel the Hasbara trolls call it “antisemitism” and “hatred”?! ||

“The era of the Palestinian state being over”, we should now recognize Jerusalem as the eternal and indivisible capital of the Jewish state. Therefore we now call for the American embassy to be moved there in fulfillment of U.S. law.

|| rosross: … do they think they can kill nearly six million Palestinians or somehow drive them out? … ||

There are three options available to Zio-supremacists: Subjugate, cleanse and kill. If subjugation and ethnic cleansing won’t secure the future of their religion-supremacist “Jewish State”, they will be forced – forced! – to commit even greater acts of murder than they already have. But I’m sure they’ll beat their breasts and maybe even cry a little while they do it.

Or do they think they can kill nearly six million Palestinians or somehow drive them out?

If they didn’t think so, why are they practicing genocide?
If they didn’t think so, why is it that those of them who protest that they are not practicing genocide indicate, as proof of their good intentions, that they are calling for the expulsion of all Palestinians to Jordan or somewhere-anywhere?
(minus the Weitz quota for the most liberal among them, of course)

I mean seriously, are they all insane?

Depends on your definition of sanity.
For some psychiatrists, it is defined as conforming to the majority.

There can be social, cultural, religious, national, communal insanity and perhaps it is contagious. Israelis have been brainwashed for so long and fed delusions, fantasies and lies that their capacity to reason and determine the difference between truth and lies, fantasy and fact, has been almost extinguished. That is insanity.

While Israel’s kill-rate of the indigenous Palestinians is high, it is not yet genocidal. It certainly was in 1947 and 48, but generally, beyond limiting nutrition in the Gaza concentration camp, I cannot see they are actively involved in genocide. But to remove the Palestinians from Occupied Palestine and UN mandated Israel they would need to commit genocidal acts because one doubts the Palestinians would pack their bags and leave quietly – more so because there is nowhere to go and why should they leave their country.

Israel’s curse is the illegal settlements because to embark on a process of removing the Palestinians they would first need to uplift all of the illegal settlers and house them in Israel in order to prevent them being killed or injured during the attack on the Palestinians. A task of that magnitude could not happen without the Palestinians and the world being aware of what Israel planned.

In addition, many of the settlers are such fanatics that they would no doubt refuse to leave anyway. And, as we saw in the last attack on the Gaza concentration camp, while the slaughter was horrendous, Israel managed to kill only a few of the nearly 2 million Palestinians imprisoned there. Any attempt to kill them all would involve such horrific use of force that world opinion would be galvanised and even the Americans could not stand back.

If the Israelis had any intelligence or integrity they would recognise these realities and do what every other coloniser has had to do, create one state with equal rights for all. It is impossible for them to remove the Palestinians.

Sorry for asking the question, are you following what is going on?
The genocide definition of the international convention was written by Raphael Lemkin himself, a guy who knew what he was talking about. Have a look at the convention and the definition of genocidal action. It is geared at recognizing and stopping it (?) when ongoing, or preferably at its start rather than when all is done and buried as in the US. Look it up.

Then, what do you mean with “limiting nutrition”, as if you missed the daily turkey shoot in the big concentration camp and the periodic Helot hunting (“mowing the lawn” in more Kosher terms), to say nothing of the give-us-our-daily-murders routine. Just read Kate’s column.

Also a reminder, making the life of an entire population, identified by an accident of birth, vexatious to the point of leaving the country as refugees the only option in order to lead a decent life –exactly what has been done for 70 years, is within the genocide definition.

Kill rate is totally irrelevant, at least as far as I heard from people who have been working around these things. As I noted above, the convention text was drawn to identify it before it’s finished. Also, there is no material obligation to risk the master race’s own population, as the example of Nazi Germany and the Ottoman Empire abundantly demonstrates.

Raising the cry of genocide not while genocidal acts are being performed daily for 70 years but only when the Nth convoy is being fed an extermination oven is not a good idea, considering what we know from past genocides, especially the one that the Zionists have transformed in their private cash cow.

I’d say our reluctance to call things by their name (a direct result of having all propaganda and most of education and entertainment in the hands of Zionists) is a major problem.

Right now you must start praying that they are not as evil as you think they are because the only possible thing standing between the Israeli government and complete ethnic cleansing / genocide is that they are good people who wouldn’t do that. There are no constraints on them any longer besides their own sense of morality. President Trump will give them carte blanche to do as they see best.

|| milx: Right now you must start praying that they are not as evil as you think they are because the only possible thing standing between the Israeli government and complete ethnic cleansing / genocide is that they are good people who wouldn’t do that. … ||

There’s nothing to indicate that Zio-supremacists are “good people who wouldn’t do that” and everything to indicate that they are hateful and immoral supremacist hypocrites who will take advantage of an opportunity to finish what they started 70 years ago and consolidate their hold on as much as possible of Palestine for the glory of a “greater” religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

That’s a lie, and you know it.
The genocide is going on, every single f*&^% day. Just read Kate’s column.
Waiting for the periodic exacerbations that are already scheduled.
With an eye out for any major opportunities to get rid of a real big tranche of work.

The only thing that’s keeping them at a relatively slow pace these times is the international conjuncture, looking out for times when all people are busy watching some other game. Not that they don’t do it when watched, mind you, but they feel freer.

Good people, eh?
I’m slowly getting to the point of “a good Zionist is…”

The contracting states definitely establish as the rule of their conduct the precise obligation not to recognize territorial acquisitions or special advantages which have been obtained by force whether this consists in the employment of arms, in threatening diplomatic representations, or in any other effective coercive measure.

I see you guys are still holding onto thin threads of hope. If you read the tea leafs carefully though you should pick up on what is to come. Trump is giving the Israeli right carte-blanche to do what they want in the WB. I don’t know if they’ll simply annex Area C, or annex the entire thing and expel 3 million Palestinian residents to Syria. Either way I know Trump will support them and there’s no international moral authority left to stop them. I don’t think Bibi wants to go full throttle – he’s clearly much more of a cautious small-c conservative politician. But he won’t be able to hold out forever against Bennett who is already demanding thousands of new housing tenders. Hillary might not have been an ideal candidate (I voted for her) but Trump is worst case scenario for Palestinians and anyone telling you otherwise is lying to you and lying to themselves. This is the death knell of the Palestinian people. Good luck over the next four years. You’ll need it.

Trump is giving the Israeli right carte-blanche to do what they want in the WB.

last i heard, but he said something else earlier in his campaign. he kind of jumps around a tad. there’s a possibility he said things in his campaign to get elected that don’t sync with his over all opinion (whatever that is). since he’s not taken office yet, let’s hold off judgement on what he might do or not do.

he won’t be able to hold out forever against Bennett who is already demanding thousands of new housing tenders. Hillary might not have been an ideal candidate …. but

if he won’t be able to hold off forever, what do you think clinton would do differently? delay the inevitable? push another decade of “peace” talks while israel keeps tightening the noose around what’s left of palestine? or do you think clinton would have acted to end the occupation? most of her focus/effort on the region (during her campaign) appears to be fighting off the bds movement.

Either way I know Trump will support them and there’s no international moral authority left to stop them.

you think europe will do nothing. they’ll be no growth of bds that could impact them. nothing.

Trump’s neutrality comment was the one he immediately stepped back from. He’s beholden to very few people because of the lack of support he got from his party but the people he is beholden to are ones you don’t want to know – people like Jared Kushner and Sheldon Adelson. At worst he will be actively promoting Israeli annexation of the WB, at best he’ll simply be indifferent to it. We need to look at this with open eyes, Annie. Thinking he’ll get into office and become a champion for the Palestinians is even more wishful thinking than that he’ll get into office and not overturn ACA.

“f he won’t be able to hold off forever, what do you think clinton would do differently? delay the inevitable? push another decade of “peace” talks while israel keeps tightening the noose around what’s left of palestine?”

Yes – I think there will be a material difference between being a weight on full speed ahead annexation (Hillary at least paid lip service to no new settlements) and actually telling them to go ahead. You don’t understand yet. Neither choice was great but the status quo, as bad as you felt it was, is a million times better than what is to come. What we’ve witnessed over the last few decades is – believe it or not – Israeli restraint. What stands between the decimation of Palestine is – horrifyingly – Bibi Netanyahu. In the past he could hold back Bennett types in his coalition by saying that their patrons in the US would not accept unbridled settlement. Currently settlement is around 2%. Without any bulwark to stop it we could be seeing thousands and thousands of new housing tenders – we could be looking at 20% settlement of the WB.

“you think europe will do nothing. they’ll be no growth of bds that could impact them. nothing.”

Yes, this is more wishful thinking. Theresa May isn’t going to stop them. When Marine Le Pen becomes PM next year she certainly won’t stop them. Europe is in the middle of a major right-wing crisis of its own. There is an enormous void in international moral legitimacy. I’m not even sure there will be a UN in three years. Republicans have been dying to cut off its funding and kick it out of the States.

You are both very pessimistic (about Israel’s actions) and overly optimistic (about the world’s ability to hold them back). You need to flip that around. Like I said – small-c conservative Bibi is your best hope for survival now. He doesn’t want major shifts – he wants to slow play and see how things work out. If the more radical elements of his coalition push him to agree to Trump’s permission to annex the WB he is going to have trouble fighting back. Who else in Israel will stop the settlement project? Herzog? Google up what he had to say about Trump’s election. There is no opposition any more. BDS, if it was ever going to be anything, is certainly not going to be anything now. On US campuses freedom of speech to fight Israel will be curtailed severely and political protest + dissent in the US in general is going to be under fire. I’m not telling you any of this because I think it’s good. I just think you guys and Electronic Intifada are still in the denial stage. If you want to fight you need to know that this is the most dangerous moment for your movement since 1967.

At worst he will be actively promoting Israeli annexation of the WB, at best he’ll simply be indifferent to it.

i agree.

Thinking he’ll get into office and become a champion for the Palestinians is even more wishful thinking

i agree, plus i missed someone making that claim. could you direct me to it?

I think there will be a material difference between being a weight on full speed ahead annexation (Hillary at least paid lip service to no new settlements) and actually telling them to go ahead. You don’t understand yet

you’re right. i don’t really understand the difference between full speed annexation and slo mo if the results are the same. and nothing you’ve really said explains to me why one is better than the other if there’s an inevitability about it. but you seem to think one is a “million times better”.

You are both very pessimistic (about Israel’s actions) and overly optimistic (about the world’s ability to hold them back). You need to flip that around. Like I said – small-c conservative Bibi is your best hope for survival now

i happen to believe no man, or country, is an island. i do think world opinion matters and i think israel thinks it matters too. i don’t know what will happen, but you sound to me like a person with lots invested in your rightness here, almost an advocate of your doomsday predictions actually.

BDS, if it was ever going to be anything, is certainly not going to be anything now. On US campuses freedom of speech to fight Israel will be curtailed severely

we’ll see about that. not sure how happy most americans might feel about their 1st amendment rights being gutted for our little friend israel.

If you want to fight you need to know that this is the most dangerous moment for your movement since 1967.

You’re right. You’re an intelligent person and you can draw equally valid conclusions by what the election means. Israel and Palestine are really, imo, more of just a bellwether for what will be more decisive shifts internationally. Will Putin feel emboldened by this to take Baltic States back? South Ossetia, Moldova, the rest of Ukraine? Will China feel emboldened to make a move? Will the Saudis and Japanese start going full throttle on nuclear programs? Is Trump going to rip up the Iran deal? Will the UN still be in NY, or exist, four years from now? We’re facing probably the greatest crisis in international authority since WW2.

i think in the coming century the US will lose it’s superpower status (as we should), how that will happen is unpredictable — but i think it will happen. i also don’t know if i’ll be around long enough to witness it, but it’s begun already.trump could be the nail in our imperial coffin.

How do you expel millions of men, women and children other than with deadly force and why should Syria take them? Israel would be even more of a pariah, herding lines of Palestinians, shooting those who try to escape, from their homes. I mean, get real. Only a lunatic would think they could get away with that.

And there cannot be a death knell of the Palestinian people without Israel killing the nearly six million of them in UN mandated Israel, that includes Israeli citizens, and Occupied Palestine and then finding a way to kill the nearly 8 million Palestinians in the diaspora.

Any attempt by Israel to wipe out the Palestinians will bring a one state solution imposed in a nanosecond.

The Syria border is currently permeable and only enforced on one side (the Israeli side). You are correct – such an expulsion would be done with deadly force. Have you been reading a different blog than I have or do you have reason to believe Israel would not employ deadly force to that end? You say only a lunatic would think they could get away with that but I think you’re missing the crux of my argument – there is no international authority to stop them. Putin won’t do it. China won’t do it. Trump won’t do it. Theresa May won’t do it. If Marine Le Pen is the next PM of France she won’t do it. There is no UN to stop Israel. At this point I’m not even sure if the UN will exist 4 years from now.

You seem to put a lot of faith in what you think Trump might do. One thing is certain about Trump, he is not predictable and he is neither a staunch Democrat, although he was once a Democrat, nor a staunch Republican. Neither has he been purchased by the Zionists as Clinton was.

He might actually cut off the dollar gravy train which keeps Israel afloat, unless they create one state with equal rights for all, as they should have done long ago. Why should or would Trump support Israel’s religious bigotry when it is costing his country so much money for so little gain?

His number one donor has been Sheldon Adelson and his FP has been run by Jared Kushner and other pro-Zionist advisors. I feel like MW has done its readers a disservice by not covering Trump more thoroughly, maybe because they assumed he stood no chance at winning. Now that he has won it’s time to take a close look at who is running his FP – it is exclusively Zionist.

Annexing Occupied Palestine just brings a one-state solution closer. Israel cannot kill or drive out the millions of Palestinians and annexing their country just means it has to be shared equally by all with religious bigotry on the part of Israelis tossed out of the window as it should be.

Don’t parrot those who kept saying “The Zionists cannot just declare a state in remote Palestine”, “The Zionists cannot do anything there, what with an Arab majority even in ‘Jewish’ towns”, “The Zionists cannot hold on to the all-Arab post-67 conquests”, etc.

Of course they can! Who is going to block them from successfully completing the genocide and/ or deportation? The universal conscience as represented by the various Blairs and Obamas and Camerons and such? The sternly wagging finger of Justice Goldstone?

and annexing their country just means it has to be shared equally by all

“Has to”, really? Morally, you may have a point, but who is gonna enforce it? You and your daddy? Shared equally like South Africa in the good old times? Shared equally, as in a graveyard?

(Besides, when did the Palestinian people formally agree to share equally, I wonder –I mean except from the traitorous mouth of the Zionist puppets.)

Trump did momentarily promise even-handedness but was, I suppose, immediately shown some extracts from the blackmail file, which must be bulging and a very entertaining read. Since he seems to like grand gestures he may be attracted to the idea of a massive population transfer ‘with compensation’,eliminating the Palestinians (as he would hope) as a political force, as a wonderful peace deal for which he would be remembered and thanked for ever. On the other hand the expenses of that sort of thing might prove to be prohibitive he may just opt for the old status quo. We need to be ready for the grand eliminationist gesture, though, and to be ready to oppose it. It has to come into the light of day some time, since it is the logical expression of Zionism.

Yes, you get it. The entire status quo just got shot out of the airlock with Trump’s election. Everything is on the table – the international order we’ve been used to since the Cold War is being flushed. Stay alert.

Well, Mooser, how I see it is that Trump was almost destroyed by one item which must be in the blackmail files of many interested parties, his locker room remarks. Then the effect was matched by those of the Comey bombshell. The upshot was that he won a technical majority by losing votes for his party at a slower rate than his opponent lost votes for hers. He has the glorious aura of victory around him now but he has never really had a mighty surge of opinion in his favour and the victory glow will fade. As that happens then more items from the files will surface if those who have them so choose. If he makes a real success of the Presidency they maybe won’t matter, I suppose, however lurid they are, However, that’s a big if. I find it really hard to explain Obana’s climbdown after Cairo and his demand for a settlement freeze, something from which his international authority never really recovered, unless some version of blackmail was used. Well, maybe it was just Clinton threatening to resign.

“Well, Mooser, how I see it is that Trump was almost destroyed by one item…”

Yes, of course I remember that. It reduced him, he was, as you say, “almost destroyed”. All he was able to salvage from the wreckage was a win in the American Presidential election. Oh, it’s not much to save from the destruction, not much for a man to cling to, but maybe just enough to bolster his bruised self-image.

Mooser, that is just what I thought. I mean what are they gonna do, threaten to release that photo of him kissing drag-queen Giuliani? He’s Trump, how much more embarrassing can you get? But wait, there’s more …

MHughes976: We need to be ready for the grand eliminationist gesture, though, and to be ready to oppose it.
————–

You might also want to prepare yourself for the petit-eliminationist gesture: annexation of Area C / major settlement blocs, leaving the rest of the West Bank–and Gaza–to the Palestinians , followed by renewed discussion of confederation of Palestinian autonomous areas with other Arab states.

Poll: Palestinians Prefer Federation With Jordan

Thursday, October 20, 2016

Conducted by A-Najar University in Nablus, the aforementioned poll found that just 18 percent of Palestinians believe the two-state solution will actually resolve the conflict, and most respondents opposed the scheme altogether.

Interestingly, a 46 percent plurality said that in place of an independent Palestinian state, they would prefer confederation with neighboring Jordan, where a majority of the population is “Palestinian” Arab.

A solution along those lines would actually be reverting to how things were before 1967 – with Jordan administering the so-called “West Bank” and Egypt taking responsibility for Gaza.

The only problem is that neither Jordan nor Egypt want such an outcome. [emphasis added]

Yes, “neither Jordan nor Egypt want such an outcome”, but such notions can be fodder for decades of talks and new “creative” proposals (“autonomy”, “confederation”, “economic union”, trade deals etc.– not direct “administration.”)

Of course, the most likely scenario to prepare for is more of the same: occupation without formal annexation.

Yes, Sibi, those are wise words. I agree that yet more of the same old samey status quo, with ever more and more of the stuff that gets reported here in ‘Today in Palestine’ is very much the likeliest thing for a long time yet. But don’t you share the sense that it really can’t go on for ever? Maybe the confederation with Jordan or Egypt will come to the fore but those countries would be acquiring massive headaches by sort-of acquiring territories where their writ might run only very partially and where they would be at constant risk of border skirmishes or worse with Israel. All versions of asking other countries to take on responsibility for the Palestinians would require at very least enormous payoffs to those countries, which could come only from American taxpayers who might seriously balk.

Never quote an Israeli News service when the original documents are available

“Poll: Palestinians Prefer Federation With Jordan

Interestingly, a 46 percent plurality said that in place of an independent Palestinian state, they would prefer confederation with neighboring Jordan, where a majority of the population is “Palestinian” Arab.”

• 46.1% of respondents supported the creation of a confederation with Jordan on the basis of two independent states with strong institutional relations

“A solution along those lines would actually be reverting to how things were before 1967 – with Jordan administering the so-called “West Bank”…”

The West bank was not ‘administered’ by Jordan. Under bilateral agreement with the representative of the majority of the legitimate population it was legally annexed to and sovereign to Jordan, who by 1967 was a UN Member State and a High Contracting Power.

“Trump was almost destroyed by one item which must be in the blackmail files of many interested parties, his locker room remarks. Then the effect was matched by those of the Comey bombshell. ”

I have to disagree with you, because you are comparing apples and oranges..

The locker room talk was about sex, and Trump could not be destroyed by this, at least not by Clinton. Sanders could have done it, but the prospect of having a former groper in chief become “First Gentleman” was equally unappealing. Trump as groper in chief at least had the asset of indeed breaking a glass ceiling by bringing in the very first First Lady who is foreign-born, speaks five languages, and English with a prominent Eastern European accent. The only other foreign-born First Lady, some 200 yrs ago, was born in England. Her conversation with Cooper on the locker room talk was brilliant and dignified, much more so than, say, Hillary’s history of defending child rapists as a young lawyer, or her husband on various occasions.

The Comey revelations were about HRC breaking federal law with her emails, and should have been countered with Trumps illegal past and present, be it tax fraud, Trump University, or employing and shafting foreign workers. Why the media entirely focussed on Clinton’s emails, and practically ignoring Trumps illegal dealings and lawsuits, is a bit of a mystery. This, indeed could have destroyed him, and it may still do just that.

“The Comey revelations were about HRC breaking federal law with her emails “

You don’t happen to remember which Federal laws Comey revealed that Clinton broke “with her e-mails”. You know, in his “revelaions”.

In fact, you can’t think of a single law Clinton has been charged with breraking in connection with the e-mail “scandal”. You do know what “charged” means in relation to the law, right. Has there even been an indictment?

Gee, let me make a wild guess, okay? Maybe she was a Public Defender providing a Constitutionally required defense for an indigent accused?
Gee, maybe I’ll take a wild stab at guessing how many cases the “history” is comprised of!

An extract from a romantic novel, Anti, on which I’m working.
”Shall we round off our meal with a Grand Marnier?’ murmurred Julius, reaching for a plump bottle. A slight cloud spread over Serafina’s previously radiant face. ‘Reminds me too much of childhood orange juice’ she sighed. ‘The way to my dark, wild heart is cider from the best British apples,’
There is no special problem in comparing apples and oranges, though they are not identical fruits. They have quite a lot in common – and both can contribute to alocoholic drinks. Scandals based on sex and scandals based on security risks, real or imaginary, have something in common too and so does the damage caused by both. I think that it will be some time before Clinton settles down to a drink with Comey.

I think that Biden is offering pretend reassurances for a fake anxiety. Mr. Bannon. now Chief Strategist, comes from a business whose proclamation is that it is unreservedly for freedom and for Israel. There is no glimmmer of light for the likes of us, and we were in a pretty gloomy place anyway.

In anticipation of the unconscionable event that Israel implements the Final Solution to the indifference of the otherwise belligerent NATO and US govs & military, perhaps now is the time to revisit and revise the idea of the International Brigades convened to fight the allied forces of fascist Spain, Italy and Germany during Spain’s 1930’s Civil War?

I’m not advocating shooting IBs, b/c their chances would be even slimmer against the psychopaths’ well equipped Israeli army and the growing itch to use their aging nukes. Rather, a significantly stepped up, much louder and unified cooperation between the various pro-Palestinian organizations who might wish to remind the modern day appeasers that this cowardly do-nothing tactic did not work out so well, especially for the 70+ million WW2 dead.

When will #impeachtrump start trending? Also, is it now fair to use trumps quotes against him, like the one where he said “the 2nd amendment people” could stop clinton? I was a bernie, stein voter anyways, so im against violence and radical zionism.

Be careful what you wish for. The coming 4 year-long disaster is not just about trump. Consider what was selected for the Veep job, assuming pence is indeed the second incarnation of cheney, without having to wait for the expiration of the latter.

It’s time to retire the corrupting notion of “the lesser evil” which made a trump-as-prez possible.

It’s time to bite the bullet and get busy organizing. We have four short years to make sure that another odious trump/clinton no-choice disaster does not happen. And hope that trump & co indeed renege on their lies to the masses who voted this mess in.

Time to abandon once and for all the traditional media and focus on the online option populated with so many first-rate journos from Democracy Now, Real News Network, Intercept, etc.

Perhaps an alliance of Sanders and Stein might serve as the first step to start planning, without the pressure of an imminent election, the meddling know-nothing pundits and pointless pollsters. In fact, why not consider convening a People’s Party and together create a realistic plan and a sober determination how to implement it, from the moment WeThePeople take over in 2021. By then the Augean stables, DC will be overflowing but, hopefully, still standing.

P.S. ■ Saban Forum 2014 – A Conversation with Naftali Bennet
Published on Dec 17, 2014
On December 5-7, the Center for Middle East Policy at Brookings hosted its 11th annual Saban Forum, titled “Stormy Seas: The United States and Israel in a Tumultuous Middle East.”

trump was elected to do the deal,improve on the economy,make a little money for my sweet honey.besides they have all those f35,s that need selling.
my guess is first up a few s.american countries are going to be readjusted.that is where the action is right now.especially the oil producers.

Actually, for someone who is a Washington insider, the prediction of what will happen with Trump and IP world is rather predictable. The Israelis will use their political and economic influence to pressure Trump in their favor or to at least stand down when they commit war crimes against the Palestinians over his term. It’s quite unlikely that he would be an Israeli hawk on his own independently, and like presidents running from Bush Sr. to Obama would actually just like the two sides to come to a peaceful agreement and end the brutality of the occupation.

That being the case, it’s quite the wrong question I think to ask what Trump will do on the Israeli side of things, but rather how much they are going to get away with or pressure him into?

And the Palestinians have some factors in their favor. First of all, just existing and breathing air is apparently “resistance” AKA “demographic threat” based on the parameters the Israeli policies have laid down. Second of all, the more that the Pals. will get massacred, the more it creates tension with the other Arab countries and Europeans. Things aren’t the way they were in 2001 with the Europeans.

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