Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Lions Pick Fifth

There's no reason for Arizona or Buffalo to deal with Detroit for a chance to move up and get a QB. First off, if the QBs are any good, they'll go in the top two picks, since KC and Jax have needs at those spots. Secondly, why deal with Detroit? They don't need to jump over Cleveland, who already has their franchise QB. Once Jax makes their pick, any QB is likely to fall into the hands of Arizona. If Buffalo wants one, they can trade up to Cleveland's spot. If they want to ensure they get their man, they'll be talking to Oakland and not us.

I truly believe the best chance we have for a team wanting to trade up for a QB is Dallas. They may take a shine to Matt Barkley, and want to make sure they get their man to take over for Romo in 2014. Romo will be in the last year of his deal, and I think the Cowboys are ready to move on rather than sign him to an extension. They may make a bold move, particularly if Jerruh gets a hard-on for some QB. Since the Lions and Cowboys have a 'pipeline' with each other, I could see that as a remote possibility. Moving up from 18th to 5th should involve a 2014 first rounder, as well as at least a third this year.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

December 31st, 2012, 8:25 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Lions Pick Fifth

MobiusOne wrote:

Ahh thats right I forgot about the ol' Kalamazoo native. Jennings would flourish opposite CJ. Not to mention its unlikely Welker will resign with the Pats and even for his age still is their most productive receiver. I also hadn't taken a look at all the free agents this offseason there are a ton of talented OT's and CB/S's. The only problem is many are on very good teams and will likely resign with (Clady, Byrd, Albert, Phillips, Talib, Moore). Seems there are alot of proven players in the free agent market, guys like Bushrod from the Saints and Beatty from the Giants. If I were the Lions GM I would bring winners into the locker room. Guys that know what it takes to win a Superbowl and maybe instill some one that into our young team.

Isn't that what Vandenbosch was supposed to do? Isn't that what Burleson was supposed to do? Isn't that what numerous other vets from winning programs were supposed to do?

In the end, the character of this team comes from the front office and sidelines, not from the guys playing on the field. Veteran signings are all well and good, but I prefer veterans with talent rather than veterans who are supposed to change the character of the team. That's what the coaching staff is supposed to take care of.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

There's no reason for Arizona or Buffalo to deal with Detroit for a chance to move up and get a QB. First off, if the QBs are any good, they'll go in the top two picks, since KC and Jax have needs at those spots. Secondly, why deal with Detroit? They don't need to jump over Cleveland, who already has their franchise QB. Once Jax makes their pick, any QB is likely to fall into the hands of Arizona. If Buffalo wants one, they can trade up to Cleveland's spot. If they want to ensure they get their man, they'll be talking to Oakland and not us.

I truly believe the best chance we have for a team wanting to trade up for a QB is Dallas. They may take a shine to Matt Barkley, and want to make sure they get their man to take over for Romo in 2014. Romo will be in the last year of his deal, and I think the Cowboys are ready to move on rather than sign him to an extension. They may make a bold move, particularly if Jerruh gets a hard-on for some QB. Since the Lions and Cowboys have a 'pipeline' with each other, I could see that as a remote possibility. Moving up from 18th to 5th should involve a 2014 first rounder, as well as at least a third this year.

I don't think Jax is ready to give up on Gabbert yet. And I posted my post as a possibility. It's all conjecture as to what anyone is going to do right now. But, our spot is just as likely for someone to trade up to as anyone's spot. As for Cleveland's spot, it is possible they could be looking for a QB. Weeden is a Wet Toast QB. If the new GM and Coach aren't West Coast guys, the Brown's just might be in the QB market. But, that has to be decided yet. As for Oakland, that is a very real possible spot for QB seekers to trade up to. the Raiders are a mess and need everything. But, Palmer is under contract for a couple more years. So, they can wait to draft a QB.

I think there will be 3 QB's taken by pick #10.

December 31st, 2012, 8:50 pm

njroar

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 amPosts: 3229

Re: Lions Pick Fifth

m2karateman wrote:

There's no reason for Arizona or Buffalo to deal with Detroit for a chance to move up and get a QB. First off, if the QBs are any good, they'll go in the top two picks, since KC and Jax have needs at those spots. Secondly, why deal with Detroit? They don't need to jump over Cleveland, who already has their franchise QB. Once Jax makes their pick, any QB is likely to fall into the hands of Arizona. If Buffalo wants one, they can trade up to Cleveland's spot. If they want to ensure they get their man, they'll be talking to Oakland and not us.

I truly believe the best chance we have for a team wanting to trade up for a QB is Dallas. They may take a shine to Matt Barkley, and want to make sure they get their man to take over for Romo in 2014. Romo will be in the last year of his deal, and I think the Cowboys are ready to move on rather than sign him to an extension. They may make a bold move, particularly if Jerruh gets a hard-on for some QB. Since the Lions and Cowboys have a 'pipeline' with each other, I could see that as a remote possibility. Moving up from 18th to 5th should involve a 2014 first rounder, as well as at least a third this year.

Weeden is gonna be 29 and new owner bringing in new GM and HC might be looking at a new QB as well. Even if they don't, the fear that they might could make someone make the move. It's all speculation of course.

And positions don't make as much of a difference anymore because of the reduced rookie salary. A cornerback taken at #5 will still be cheaper than a cornerback taken at #20 3 years ago. There's no reason to pass on player you need/want except if you can get someone to trade up.

December 31st, 2012, 8:52 pm

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4886Location: WSU

Re: Lions Pick Fifth

m2karateman wrote:

There's no reason for Arizona or Buffalo to deal with Detroit for a chance to move up and get a QB. First off, if the QBs are any good, they'll go in the top two picks, since KC and Jax have needs at those spots. Secondly, why deal with Detroit? They don't need to jump over Cleveland, who already has their franchise QB. Once Jax makes their pick, any QB is likely to fall into the hands of Arizona. If Buffalo wants one, they can trade up to Cleveland's spot. If they want to ensure they get their man, they'll be talking to Oakland and not us.

I truly believe the best chance we have for a team wanting to trade up for a QB is Dallas. They may take a shine to Matt Barkley, and want to make sure they get their man to take over for Romo in 2014. Romo will be in the last year of his deal, and I think the Cowboys are ready to move on rather than sign him to an extension. They may make a bold move, particularly if Jerruh gets a hard-on for some QB. Since the Lions and Cowboys have a 'pipeline' with each other, I could see that as a remote possibility. Moving up from 18th to 5th should involve a 2014 first rounder, as well as at least a third this year.

I agree, I dont think the trade down possibilities are that good or plentiful for the Lions. Best case scenario is that these QBs start getting rave reviews and tempt at least one maybe two of the teams in front of us into taking one. I still dont think at this point that puts Joeckel in play for us bc Philly would probably land him but maybe we get our choice of passrushing defenders Jarvis Jones, Werner or Damontre Moore. As far as I know Teo isnt much of a passrusher and we have a MLB locked up for 4 years so I wouldnt think he s going to get a big look by the Lions.

December 31st, 2012, 9:15 pm

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4886Location: WSU

Re: Lions Pick Fifth

m2karateman wrote:

MobiusOne wrote:

Ahh thats right I forgot about the ol' Kalamazoo native. Jennings would flourish opposite CJ. Not to mention its unlikely Welker will resign with the Pats and even for his age still is their most productive receiver. I also hadn't taken a look at all the free agents this offseason there are a ton of talented OT's and CB/S's. The only problem is many are on very good teams and will likely resign with (Clady, Byrd, Albert, Phillips, Talib, Moore). Seems there are alot of proven players in the free agent market, guys like Bushrod from the Saints and Beatty from the Giants. If I were the Lions GM I would bring winners into the locker room. Guys that know what it takes to win a Superbowl and maybe instill some one that into our young team.

Isn't that what Vandenbosch was supposed to do? Isn't that what Burleson was supposed to do? Isn't that what numerous other vets from winning programs were supposed to do?

In the end, the character of this team comes from the front office and sidelines, not from the guys playing on the field. Veteran signings are all well and good, but I prefer veterans with talent rather than veterans who are supposed to change the character of the team. That's what the coaching staff is supposed to take care of.

couldnt agree more plus welker, jennings, etc they are going to get really big money. vandenbosch and burleson deals were overpayments but probably much more palatable by comparison to what the big name players above will get.

December 31st, 2012, 9:18 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9967Location: Dallas

Re: Lions Pick Fifth

I think the Lions look at one of the lineman from A&M, DE Damontre Moore to replace Avril and/or KVB or OT Luke Joeckel to replace Backus at LT. Both premium positions in the NFL and needs for the Lions heading into the new year. They don't address DB until round 2 or later.

I think the Lions look at one of the lineman from A&M, DE Damontre Moore to replace Avril and/or KVB or OT Luke Joeckel to replace Backus at LT. Both premium positions in the NFL and needs for the Lions heading into the new year. They don't address DB until round 2 or later.

I just don't see the big deal with Damontre Moore. An I especially don't understand why some think he's a better fit for the lions than Bjoern Werner. If there is something I'm missing please educate me.

January 2nd, 2013, 1:23 pm

liontrax

#1 Overall Pick

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pmPosts: 1536Location: Wolverine, Mi.

Re: Lions Pick Fifth

kdsberman wrote:

Pablo wrote:

I think the Lions look at one of the lineman from A&M, DE Damontre Moore to replace Avril and/or KVB or OT Luke Joeckel to replace Backus at LT. Both premium positions in the NFL and needs for the Lions heading into the new year. They don't address DB until round 2 or later.

I just don't see the big deal with Damontre Moore. An I especially don't understand why some think he's a better fit for the lions than Bjoern Werner. If there is something I'm missing please educate me.

Depending on which talent board you prefer, some rate him higher than Werner, others rate Werner higher. We all know it's much too soon to believe these boards. It will all shake out in the next 2 months, then there will be a more accurate assessment. I haven't seen Moore play this year, but have seen Werner several times. A&M plays on Friday night against Oklahoma, looking forward to seeing Moore. Agree with pablo that the secondary probably won't be addressed til the 2nd to 3rd rounds. At this point doesn't look like there's any corners who will rate a top 5 pick. Hoping they can trade down and still get a good corner in the 1st, and a extra 2nd to 3rd.

I really hope the Lions don't pass on a top 5 talent just to get extra second tier guys. If they had a pick after 10 then I would look to trade, but at pick 5 you may give up elite talent just to fill a hole with a guy that may not help until late into the season. Now that is unless a team wants to throw extra 1st round picks at the team, if that the case you gotta take the trade.

Assuming the Lions don't trade the pick, I would figure they would take Moore (DE), Joeckel (OT), or Jarvis Jones (DE). Maybe Manti Teo.

Fifth is just too high for a CB unless he's a Patrick Peterson. Same with safety.

I'd prefer the Lions try to trade into the middle of the round for maybe an extra 2nd and 3rd -- their biggest needs are interior Oline, CB and safety and the great value there is usually mid-late 1rst / 2nd round.

But if they really like a DE or an OT, they should probably pounce.

Looking at their roster, IMO it's tough to say that Pioli has done a bad job. They have a good OL, great RB, good WR corps (Bowe, Baldwin, McCluster, Breaston, Bellamy), the only move he really screwed up at was over-paying Matt Cassel. It seems to me the KC Chiefs are a lot closer to the 49ers than the Lions. IMO they've been underachieving for the last couple of seasons, and I expect them to break out with the right coach/Qb.

Assuming the Lions don't trade the pick, I would figure they would take Moore (DE), Joeckel (OT), or Jarvis Jones (DE). Maybe Manti Teo.

Fifth is just too high for a CB unless he's a Patrick Peterson. Same with safety.

I'd prefer the Lions try to trade into the middle of the round for maybe an extra 2nd and 3rd -- their biggest needs are interior Oline, CB and safety and the great value there is usually mid-late 1rst / 2nd round.

But if they really like a DE or an OT, they should probably pounce.

Looking at their roster, IMO it's tough to say that Pioli has done a bad job. They have a good OL, great RB, good WR corps (Bowe, Baldwin, McCluster, Breaston, Bellamy), the only move he really screwed up at was over-paying Matt Cassel. It seems to me the KC Chiefs are a lot closer to the 49ers than the Lions. IMO they've been underachieving for the last couple of seasons, and I expect them to break out with the right coach/Qb.

Bowe and Charles were there before he took over, but he has done well building the OL. I think a lot of people just judge him solely on Cassel, so he gets beat up pretty bad.

Assuming the Lions don't trade the pick, I would figure they would take Moore (DE), Joeckel (OT), or Jarvis Jones (DE). Maybe Manti Teo.

Fifth is just too high for a CB unless he's a Patrick Peterson. Same with safety.

I'd prefer the Lions try to trade into the middle of the round for maybe an extra 2nd and 3rd -- their biggest needs are interior Oline, CB and safety and the great value there is usually mid-late 1rst / 2nd round.

But if they really like a DE or an OT, they should probably pounce.

Looking at their roster, IMO it's tough to say that Pioli has done a bad job. They have a good OL, great RB, good WR corps (Bowe, Baldwin, McCluster, Breaston, Bellamy), the only move he really screwed up at was over-paying Matt Cassel. It seems to me the KC Chiefs are a lot closer to the 49ers than the Lions. IMO they've been underachieving for the last couple of seasons, and I expect them to break out with the right coach/Qb.

Bowe and Charles were there before he took over, but he has done well building the OL. I think a lot of people just judge him solely on Cassel, so he gets beat up pretty bad.

Charles was there prior to Pioli being there, but Pioli is the one that extended his contract to a very reasonable, manageable sum. He deserves some credit for that.

That said, Pioli was fired today. I'd can Mayhew and hire Pioli in a minute. We have our Qb, we don't have to worry about the Cassel mishap. We'd be getting a guy that understands the value of an OL and the running game, and we'd be getting a guy that helped build one of the best franchises in sports history. Make it happen...

And, the best part is... Just think... You could never hear me second guess the guy, after I endorsed him ;-)...

Assuming the Lions don't trade the pick, I would figure they would take Moore (DE), Joeckel (OT), or Jarvis Jones (DE). Maybe Manti Teo.

Fifth is just too high for a CB unless he's a Patrick Peterson. Same with safety.

I'd prefer the Lions try to trade into the middle of the round for maybe an extra 2nd and 3rd -- their biggest needs are interior Oline, CB and safety and the great value there is usually mid-late 1rst / 2nd round.

But if they really like a DE or an OT, they should probably pounce.

Looking at their roster, IMO it's tough to say that Pioli has done a bad job. They have a good OL, great RB, good WR corps (Bowe, Baldwin, McCluster, Breaston, Bellamy), the only move he really screwed up at was over-paying Matt Cassel. It seems to me the KC Chiefs are a lot closer to the 49ers than the Lions. IMO they've been underachieving for the last couple of seasons, and I expect them to break out with the right coach/Qb.

Bowe and Charles were there before he took over, but he has done well building the OL. I think a lot of people just judge him solely on Cassel, so he gets beat up pretty bad.

Charles was there prior to Pioli being there, but Pioli is the one that extended his contract to a very reasonable, manageable sum. He deserves some credit for that.

That said, Pioli was fired today. I'd can Mayhew and hire Pioli in a minute. We have our Qb, we don't have to worry about the Cassel mishap. We'd be getting a guy that understands the value of an OL and the running game, and we'd be getting a guy that helped build one of the best franchises in sports history. Make it happen...

And, the best part is... Just think... You could never hear me second guess the guy, after I endorsed him ;-)...

Well Schwartz does have a connection to Belichick, so maybe he could pair up with Pioli, lol. I would only be concerned about his choice on HCs because if he helped pick the Chiefs previous guys I'll pass.