One thing you have to drop is the idea of "new" team. If you're not using a certain move, or a certain pokemon because it would be "copying" someone else's idea and not it being an original creation, that's idiotic. Between the fundamental sets and strategies (restbell, curselax, sleep talk) developed by the 00-02 foundational players, and vil/celia/bob/whatever developing most of the defensive conceptual shit, and my developing everything else, there's very little, if any "new" left. The concept of "new" teams revolves around a "new" idea, of which there really aren't any. Changing surf to hydro pump, or cloyster to forretress, doesn't really destroy the core foundational function of the team, so for all intents and purposes, it's still the same team. That's why if I try to "rate" teams, I really just end up giving them a worser version of a team I already made.

So this started off as a warstory, but after 6 natty lights, I realize I’m no good at creative writing. I’m pretty good with satire, but in an alcohol induced state, I tend to rant (exhibit A). Anywho, this has become more of a “inside the mind of competitive battling” kind of thing really. A guide to competitive battling if you will. Or a part 2 to my guide.

If there’s one thing I learned about competitive Pokemon, it’s about prediction. Notice, it’s “about” prediction. If there’s one thing you know about competitive Pokemon, it’s the importance of prediction. That’s how skill is determined right? Wrong. You can’t really learn prediction, it’s something you already know, it’s intuition, it’s something you grow accustomed to, something you improve through learning other things (like playstyles and play patterns), without those things, prediction only exists in one state. It’s ONLY possible to predict against lesser opponents, when faced against equal/greater opponents, it’s known as GUESSING. That’s what you’re doing for the most part, it’s not prediction whatsoever. Prediction implies beating the odds, against better/equal opponents, that won’t happen. You’re playing the odds, and exactly the odds.

And, by the way, this thread will it’ll be a three-part issue. Consider it a treat.

Yes that’s mine. I started writing it one nostalgic day 2 years ago. Don’t ask why, just appreciate the fact that it exists.

The second, the battle itself. Read the commentary, it’s good stuff. Really, I promise. Will induce thought and make you a better battler.

I sign on for the first time in 18 months, feeling nostalgic. I go away (since I'm too cool for Pokemon obviously) and get a message from poke god: "hai wants play?!". That's not what he said. But that's the gist of it. He challenges me, I notice "Apply PP Ups", which I'm not too fond of in the realm of GSC.

But it was a rated match and not that unrated pussyshit so it's cool, instant +10 respect for not being a record whore. But then again, there's so few people on for that to even matter. Show enemy HP wasn't ticked, so I wasn't in full NB 0.9.6 nostalgia mode.

So later on I find out this is actually Bob, since he ran the same team under his Professor Pokemon or whatever alias. Not important. Anyway, high off his victories over some former vets, smurfing the hell out of vil/havoc, and some cruel wins over whatever remains of the GSC community, he decides to get cute with me. So I retaliate with some cuteness of my own. Truth be told though, I couldn't care less. I didn't expect a challenge, not knowing who he is, and he certainly didn't expect a challenge either. Chatlog confirms this.

This is actually only my third time playing Bob. The first two ended in a draw back in early 2004 or so, after 564 (arbitrary) turns of not being able to do anything against each other. I won in the end, via struggle 5-0, but I think we both gave up at that point, so I consider it a draw. This battle is just as long (as of writing, it’s 75 pages long), but it was on-your-toes the whole way through. There was never a hopeless moment for either team, ‘til about turn 300 or so. Even then, should I misplay, I’d still lose. This isn’t one of the best battles I have, but it’s definitely one of the best out of my available 4 logs.

Spoiler warning: After reading through it, there’s very little satire. It comes off as a pretty strong in-your-face competitive-Pokemon-is-serious-business kind of notion. But it’s really good info though, a lot of which will make you better battlers, GSC and other generations as well I hope.

My Raikou start gives me the edge on pretty much every common starter, with the exception of Nidoking. Prior to this game, I've always ran Roar Raikou... and that hasn't changed (didn't expect that did you?). What did change, though, is that I forwent Crunch in favor of Reflect. Experimentation really, based on the idea that Crunch usually ends up hitting Steelix, Nidoking, Marowak, or Rhydon. Steelix couldn't careless, Nidoking and Rhydon both pose no reasonable threats, and Marowak is... well, again... "experimentation". Anywho, this matchup isn't really ideal, but hey, I might as well begin with the "experimention".

I was almost surprised to find Suicune on the team, then I realized I made another experimental change before the battle. I’ve always had Starmie in this slot to cover up the Machamp weakness, as well as anti-spikes coverage.

Ideal matchup for Raikou. Losing leftovers with Raikou is eh, unless he's packing Zapdos/Raikou with spike support, it doesn't really matter. This is where I begin scouting the team. I like knowing what I'm dealing with, and I emphasize it for any advanced player. You don't want to sacrifice Pokemon blindly unless you know exactly what to expect. Losing to a last poke drum/curselax, drumzard, druidcruel, growtheon, is not cool.

It was. Anywho, at this point, I pretty much realized if he was any good, he's running the same strategy as me. Two differences in the team that are ultimately inconsequential, Tyranitar/Starmie vs Raikou/Suicune. Marowak is a threat to every team, but I have as much Marowak coverage as one could have. Snorlax is obviously a threat, especially with an unknown set. My guess was drumlax which takes advantage of SD wak.

Ahh, curselax with Body Slam. This was pretty much my worst fear. With DE/Return, I could send skarm in on Snorlax all day, but with Body Slam, paralysis becomes a hassel. I couldn't send Miltank in yet, not without knowing whether or not it packed Belly Drum as well. And with Marowak waiting on the wings, probably SD kind, flinch + para becomes an issue for skarm. This followed the exact same offensive strategy that my team relied on.

DP was a high-risk move, with the only benefit being Marowak is now in KO range for Starmie. But even then, he has to make another correct prediction to get out of the scenario. It would’ve also been the right move had he assumed I’ve been a 4 move mixed sweeper with Fire Blast.

I predicted he'd Rest since he'd think I'd switch since RS couldn't kill. Confusing? Probably. You have to know when to think, but not overthink. But this time, he just went right over my head. Either way, SD was the right move.

He thought if he had used WW, there was more or less a 30% chance that I'd win the game should I RS. A CH/Flinch would've pretty much ended it, and a WW to Skarm/Snorlax would've kept the game going.

I half expected Starmie, and half expected Skarmory to stay in for the WW. Probably 44/56 between the Earthquake and Rock Slide paying off after factoring CH chances/accuracy, so I just picked the latter.

I didn't expect him to sacrifice someone this early, which is the safest route to keep the game going.

From his perspective, here are six options:

Sacrifice Snorlax: Well this doesn't make any sense. Marowak alone poses no threat whatsoever to his team.
Sacrifice Starmie: I'd have to sacrifice another as well, since Starmie is the only thing that can stop Marowak via OHKO at this point.
Sacrifice Miltank: Without Miltank, my Marowak (which ran the same set as me) would be stupidly slow. So no Miltank = no Marowak.
Sacrifice Skarmory: That unleashes his two offensive threats with pretty much no drawback.
Sacrifice Tyranitar: I only know 5 of his Pokemon, and should his 6th be Misdreavus, that becomes a huge hassel as my offense now relies on Marowak once again.
Sacrifice Marowak: Offense relies on Snorlax, but as a bonus, he doesn't know my 4th move yet.

Had he scouted all 6 of my Pokemon, he probably would've sacrificed Tyranitar, completely changing the game.

Yep. Well fuck. I had ruled out a drumcurselax on the account that he hasn't shown the greatest of skill and has been outplayed to this point. Had I been more cautious and continued on my original plan of scouting out Snorlax's moveset, I wouldn't be in this position.

I couldn't risk Skarm getting para'd/CH'd on the switch, so I decide to sacrifice either Raikou or Suicune to get Skarm in safely. He doesn't seem to pack Thunder Misdreavus, and for whatever reason, I still felt his Tyranitar was a mixed sweeper, so Raikou was more or less dead to me. Suicune had a better chance of shutting down his presumed mixtar than my Raikou had of making an impact with Reflect. Had I known Tyranitar packed neither Rock Slide nor EQ, I would've sacrificed Suicune. Respect comes back.

In hindsight, I should've known he ran pursuittar. A team that focuses on a Snorlax that can't touch ghosts isn't very reliable, and someone as skilled as to make a team like his certainly knows that, hence a reliable way to deal with said ghosts must be necessary. Enter Pursuit Tyranitar. Whatever.

That's not true. If he gets lucky with the paras, my Skarm still struggles with drumlax. I knew that, he knew that. I temporarily put my offense on hold while I try to PP waste the last of his offensive threats.

Oh God, I forgot that even existed. I realize I'm back at square one with my offensive efforts now. Had I been more aware, I would've made Marowak a bigger part of my prediction priority, as a low HP Skarm and Starmie isn't really a Marowak stopper by any means.

1. If he drummed, I could've used Body slam and we both could've been in KO range. A CH from either side would've resulted in death. Had I Heal Belled on the turn he used Belly Drum, something probably would've died.

2. If he used curse, I could've belled up and switched to Skarm on the following turn. Had I used Body Slam, I had a chance to para/fp/both (which it did), CH and prevent a subsequent Drum, or if neither happened, would've probably lost someone.

Going with Heal Bell was pretty much a 50/50 and a pure test of prediction.

Going with Body Slam was roughly a 64/36 factoring in para, fp, and ch in my favor to come out without a scratch.

1. If he drummed, I could've used Body Slam. That would put him in a horrible position. Heal Belling this turn would've put him at 39% HP, me at full, with Body Slam doing about 23% a turn. In the subsequent turn, anything that ISN'T him critting my Miltank would've ended badly for him.

2. If he cursed, I could've Heal Belled, allowing me to bring in a "fresh" Skarm. Body Slam would be inconsequential.

Going with Belly Drum, odds are greatly against him for him to come out beneficial in the exchange. Curse was the clear choice, and I played accordingly.

How gay is Suicune? Very. He starts to realize he can force a Suicune vs Snorlax matchup at will with Tyranitar though. And he can force a Tyranitar vs Skarm matchup at will with Snorlax. I begin to give up the pure stalling and try to execute my own offense. The safe route was taking too long and could probably cost me the match if luck didn’t go my way.

Spoiler: Luck didn’t go my way for pretty much the rest of the battle.

Brilliant move! Many less experienced players would've chosen to go with Rest this turn, which is actually the worst possible option (save a second Belly Drum).

Using curse was a way for him to keep Snorlax alive should I get through para, and at the same time, should I FP, he would've been in a position to go on the offensive.

From a defensive perspective, the only way his Snorlax could've died that turn is if I CH'd him through para, which is about a 4.5% chance. So Rest is an inconsequentially right move 4.5% of the time. Body Slam is the right move 26% of the time (26% chance to win the game really). Curse is the inconsequentially right move 92.5% of the time, and 3% (triple FP or FP + CH would've won the game; .25^3+.25*.0625) chance to win the game.

Ate my words not 10 turns later. I wasn't staying in, seeing as my luck is horrendous. Since I was out of Rock Slides at this point, I had to find another way to win. Neither of us had enough offense to break the other. What I did have though, is two Pokemon extremely adept at taking advantage of Struggle, whereas he had one. Slowly but surely, I'd waste my PP so that I can deliver a 999 attack Struggle. I was careful not to use up all my Earthquakes so I can keep Skarmory active instead of the other two.

At this point, I was counting everything. I had to be sure he was out of either Whirlwinds or before I could abuse 999 attack struggle. In order to do that, I had to force Skarm to use attacks instead of mindlessly switching around. And I had the Pokemon to do that.

Whereas I could waste PP via switching, he HAD to keep Skarmory in versus Marowak or risk an EQ if he decides to get cute with prediction

Horrible misplay here, should've used drum. Getting rid of drum as soon as possible ensures that your last attack will be Rest before your 999 attack struggles and not something that destroys half your life. But then again, I didn't bother to check his PP. I knew he was out of Drill Pecks, but I thought he had a lot more PP left of Rest, giving me plenty of opportunities to drum. At this point:

1. My vision was blurring.
2. I honestly didn't care that much anymore.
3. I started drinking.

He was keeping count of my drum/rest PP. Clever, he needed me at full HP to ensure I couldn't drum twice. If he had kept Skarm in, I would've been able to drum, bringing myself to <40%, allowing myself to drum once again.

Inevitable now really, he has more Belly Drum PPs than Rest PP, he would have to Drum twice and when he does, I can just Body Slam for the win. I have enough Growl PPs to outlast his Drum + Rest waste.

After this battle, he goes on ranting about him being in the midst of creating some revolutionary poker playing program that'd win money for him, despite how moronically impossible to anyone half-adept at understanding the very basics of the limits of artificial intelligence. Crazy fool. I admire his perseverance, ignorance really is bliss.

Raikou taking one for the team. I know buddy, it should’ve been Suicune.

Being drunk for most of the latter half of the battle.

Slops

The only lucky move on my part throughout the entire game, resulting in the game lasting more than twice as long as it had to. Odds of me failing all 9 chances to win the game: .64*.88*.88*.88*.64*.64*.88*.64*.64 = 6.4%.

Snorlax sucking at paralyzing.

Miltank sucking at paralyzing.

Marowak sucking at flinching/CHing.

Suicune being suspetible to CHes during times of bad STs.

Downplaying the existence of drumcurselax outside of myself.

A surprising number of misplays on my part.

Not being able to count to 24.

Being drunk for most of the latter half of the battle.

Honestly though, the battle could've gone either way from beginning to end, even when we resorted to PP wasting and whatnot, we knew one wrong move could result in some pretty devastating 999 attack struggles. That's what I like. And that's usually the result of GSC battles between two teams that were more or less, equal.

This was ultimately a mirror match. Had this battle been replayed, my knowing his Pokemon and his knowing mine, it would've really just been a matter of execution and para/flinch/CH rolls. My Raikou allows me to drum more freely, whereas his t-tar could wear down my skarm much quicker with pursuit. Suicune and Starmie, for the most part, is there for show. If one of us ran Drumfable instead of the waters, it would've given him a huge advantage over the other. If I ran DE instead of Body Slam on Snorlax, I probably could've broken down skarm much quicker. Anyway, there's a lot of hypothetical situations that don't really matter.

As aforementioned, should our teams ever clash, it just be a matter of skill and luck, the team dynamics are virtually identical in terms of breaking each other, so it comes down to execution.

Versus other teams

Similarities are in the coverages: regular curseshit is handled nicely by a combination of Skarmory + Miltank, the usual threats (drumzard, druidcruel, joltwak, etc) are also covered nicely. The teams dish out enough damage against quicker teams to make that matchup a tossup, and are much quicker than the slower, even more methodical teams.

Because he chooses to forgo the legendary duo of Suicune + Raikou, he’s very susceptible to mixed sweepers. A mixlax, especially one running LK can have a field day here, as well as Nidoking, Dragonite, and other Tyranitars. Miltank can only hold the forte for so long. Also, oddities like growth vaporeon, cursecune, etc are also huge headaches from turn one.

But if there’s one weakness my team has that his doesn’t is against certain spikes teams. Whereas I’m forced to outplay most teams running Spikes, he can generally get it out of the way without too much hassle. Starmie is the best spinner in the game, and because it packs both Psychic and Surf, it all of the spikers hard. Running Psychic also means stupid shit like Gengar can’t wall spin, and should the opponent run Misdreavus, there’s always pursuittar waiting in the wings.

There are some defensive loopholes however. There’s no real answer to clefable, granted, it would have a hard time switching in in the first place. Against a growth passing team, it’s really all about attacking. It’s no different from any other team.

The one-two punch delivered by Marowak + Snorlax are generally more than enough to break through even the sturdiest of stall teams.

Thief on Skarmory is an interesting choice that I’ve considered myself. However, it needed to steal leftovers from either Marowak, Snorlax, or other Skarmory in order for it to really make a difference for my team. Curse offers awesome defensive coverage against drumlax; skarms are susceptible to CH Des, which OHKO. After a curse, regardless of ch, I’ll survive the ordeal. After the drum/hit ordeal, Snorlax (assuming initially full HP) will be at 62% HP, and I’ll be at 69%, versus the 62%/50% without curse. In addition, Skarm’s speed is reduced to 159 after a curse, just enough to outspeed Snorlax. And because Skarm deals an average of about 30% damage to Snorlax, that’s a 2hko, potentially ohko should I CH, which forces Snorlax to either switch or heal up.

On a numerical scale, here’s how I’d rate the teams:

Team #1

Offense: 7/10; enough to break every team, but you’ll be in a jiff should luck not go your way with flinch/CH/paras
Defense: 8/10; will wall most orthodox sets to hell and back, “weak” to quicker spiking teams, Drumfable is deadly
Consistency: 8/10; with Raikou, Snorlax, Suicune, Miltank, and Skarmory on the team, there’s very little that can go wrong against rogue opponents.

Team #2:

Offense: 8/10; with Pursuit Tyranitar, offense is flawless. It’s the not the quickest of teams, but with the anti-spike coverage, it’ll have plenty of opportunities.
Defense: 7/10; defense against spikes teams is as good as it gets; weak to mixed sweepers and most NYPC shit; God forbid if they run two ghosts; general coverage is pretty good.
Consistency: 8/10; Starmie, Skarmory, Snorlax, and Miltank is plenty coverage should you go wrong.

Spoiler: There’s actually a part 4 to this, where I kind of go off ranting about GSC. Stay tuned.

EDIT: Both of these teams suck. Use Starmie over Suicune. Hidden Power Raikou to update.

all of this was made by borat not me! just gonna push it through gp first.
this was made very informally so ill skim through it and correct any grammar before the 5 gpers it will take to check this go at it
edit: ready for gp. i doubt i got even half of the mistakes but this thing is long as hell

C&C Leader

OK me and Jelli had actually talked about this earlier, sorry for not replying.

When you go back to Borat's Part 2, it's actually split into 4 parts.

This first part, the warstory/log, should really only be on the forums in the warstory archive, or in a Letter for the eventual RoA Hub (if Borat is cool with that).

As for the second post, idk if that actually belongs anywhere as it's mostly just commentary and opinion, and not really facts.

However, the third and fourth posts should really be morphed into a GSC threatlist. That's really all I had envisioned with this Part 2. Borat I assume you know what the other threatlists look like, how does that sound to you?

I rather this be scrapped altogether. It'd be a lot easier whipping one up from scratch.

I think Jorgen and I, and maybe M Dragon were suppose to whip up a threatlist something together last year but never got around to it. I don't have too much time nowadays to do any real writing/editing on a larger scale, but I'm here for comments and general analysis stuff. But everything I write will probably need proof-reading. Any who, I think Jorgen is still active, so if he's free to collaborate on a threat list, we could do that.

Also, I would need someone to really explain to me what a threat list really is. And how it differentiates itself from something like an in-depth tiers list. Like an example of something that is a top OU but isn't per say a top threat, or a low crappy OU or even a BL but is a top threat.

That threat list is, outside of the tier description page, the one GSC thing I'm not pretty much solely responsible for on the PO Wiki. I just edited it. Either way I cringe at half the stuff I wrote back then, so it would be a base at best.

Also something like this is probably what he has in mind for a threat list? Like, just a list of the biggest offensive and defensive hurdles you'd need to face, along with the names of their most common sets. I really don't think it's more than just an in-depth tier list, the difference is in how it's organized and used. The tier list proper is helpful for knowing what to use, the threat list is all in one place so you know what to focus on beating and what your team is weak against. One thing I think would need to be different for a GSC threat list would be the removal of separate offensive/defensive lists, since offense and defense are one and the same for the biggest threats so things would get pretty redundant pretty quickly.

So are we nitpicking then? That's to say, there's more priority in something specializing and being amazing in it, rather than someone's that's kinda good at everything, but doesn't excel in any of them.

Case in point, tyranitar probably isn't a huge threat in GSC compared to something like Smeargle, where the next move decides the game.

Speaking of Smeargle, the Smeargle analysis needs a huge update. All of the movesets are whack. Disable? Really? And is Smeargle really allowed in UU? It's BL at least. Smeargle + quagsire TOO GOOD. And it makes no sense moving quagsire to BL.

Ruiner of Alph

What we mean by threat list is something like this, which Umby, Triangles, and Shrapn3l did in RoA a few months back (it was originally a top 10 list, but it evolved into an on-site article). If you guys wanna start one up here for GSC, that'd be awesome.

Mixed sweepers: These are the ones that can hit anything hard on the spot and require no set-up to do it. In general, they are primarily physical attackers who hit decently on the special side against skarms, forretress, and other physical walls. The notable exceptions on this list are Exeggutor/Gengar, whose physical side comes primarily from Explosion. And Marowak/Machamp, who are physical attackers that hit Skarm and friends just fine.

Set-up sweepers: As the name implies, they are pokemon whose offensive merits really begin to show after a turn or two of “set-up”, usually stat-upping. P-hazers are the usual problems with these guys, as well as how ineffective they become if the proper wall shows up. Oh, and it takes a while (Belly Drum and Marowak withstanding) to set up. Also, some require the proper timing and set up, e.g. with Curse/Roar/Substitute/Return Kangaskhan.

Machamp (With a curse and the proper supporting moves, pretty much nothing in the game matches up well)
Tyranitar (Curse version is probably stopped cold by suicune, but pretty damn good vs anything else. And it phazes!)
Rhydon (With a STAB EQ, it hits a lot harder than ttar, but on the flipside, you can't gamble vs [HP] waters at all)
Snorlax (curselax, drumlax, cursedrumlax, you know the deal)
Miltank (this is kind of a stretch, since you probably want it to bell as well. Nevertheless, it's an option to curse).
Porygon2 (curse is the standard, and for a good reason. Twave makes things real awkward for growltanks, and freeze = win)
Vaporeon (growthvap, hereby referred to as BORAT)
Kangaskhan (aforementioned curse, sub, roar kanga beats growltanks + phazers in one)
Marowak (SD wak, often combined with agi-pass. However, equally good, if not better, with some para support)
Espeon (growthespeon will be the next big thing in GSC. BP or HP Water/Grass creates matchup problems for most teams)
Muk (same set as above; just so god damn underrated how much havoc this causes. Ridiculously bulky as well)
Jolteon (growthjolt is an amazing pokemon, BP or not, it's just great. like espeon, it's just asking to break the meta)
Clefable (Drumfable was something I advocated for the longet time, and it can still win games like nobody's business)
Quagsire (Drumquag is the next big thing on the physical side of the game. It can rest for longevity, or SB to break eggs, good AGI BP target too)
Tentacruel (an old vet classic, and will wreck Vap and Thunder Electric teams. Druidcruel forgotten treasure)
Charizard (another vet favorite, it's never had any true counters that weren't dispatchable. Drumzard is a threat to every team all the time)

Exploders: Pretty straight forward stuff. Use these as a means to make the game “simpler”, take out the variables, and make it more about strategy. Some explosions tend to be better than others. Snorlax, Cloyster, Egg can all nail just about anything (albeit cloy usually explodes on starmie/other cloys). Gengar as well, but has a hard problem getting around T-tar. Steelix is a pretty one dimensional explosion, and really a last resort-bait kill thing. Muk has an EXTREMELY underrated explosion, but he’s definitely one of the better pokemon at taking care of business without the use of explosion. Forretress has a limited explosion for the most part, seeing that Gengar, Cloyster, Skarm, Ttar, other Forretress, Steelix, etc etc are all relatively safe switches depending on the set.

Snorlax (explosion on lax can nail anything. Classic mix/starterlax, or be creative with curse, LK, and/or even drum/rest)
Cloyster (can't learn spin and explosion, which is a real hit to cloy. regardless it's still damn nasty)
Forretress (somewhat limited explosion a far a targets go, but it's better than nothing. some choose to forgo it though)
Steelix (probably even more limited than Forr, since you're probably helpless vs air, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Gengar (amazing explosion from this thing. worst case scenario is Umbreon/ttar, but Dpunch will cover latter. And you can always just sleep them)
Muk (as aforementioned, absolutely underrated in every regard. Muk often doesn't have to explode to wreck havoc, but having it makes it that much better. just poison ttars)
Exeggutor (another pretty good explosion, but Skarm/Forr/Ttar often ruin your fun depending on your set. And umbreon. You can always go triple attack explosion though)
Golem (not really worth mentioning, but it's an option. And it hits a lot harder than steelix with neutral attacks, with FB for skarms)

Jolteon (pass growth or agi. or sub if you're a pansy. or both. probably a good idea to carry HP ice/water for ground phazers though)
BORAT (pass growth or the occassional aa)
Espeon (pass growth, that's all)
Umbreon (ideally, pass mean look. Rarely work vs good players. Or growth, maybe with HP fire for steel phazer. Curse is an option too, but good luck with that.)
Scizor (Pass agi and/or SD, but you'll have a hard time getting around Skarm)
Smeargle (Pass agi and/or sub and/or drum/sd. you have spore to ensure at least 1 pass; you'll probably die after that)

As far as the defensive route goes, there’s also a couple genre-types to consider.

Mixed walls:

Raikou (it's the premier special wall in GSC, with some physical bulk as well. it'll threaten any non-lax mixed sweeper, and takes any non-eqs pretty well)
Suicune (the definition of a mixed wall. takes hit from nido, ttar, dnite, and scares them off with it own attacks. applies to non-curse lax, hera, and even champ)
Miltank (with one turn recovery, you have the statistical adv. vs DP. Body Slam para might scare some of them off as well, since mixed attacker don't usually rest)
Heracross ("resists" non-stab boltbeams with ease, and EQ/fighting to boot. neutral to RS, but you scare ttars off easily. mirror match with other heras)
Snorlax (pretty good, you'll have to rest loop most of them. and you're banking on DP not hitting, and you won't do a good job walling lax/champ/hera.)
Tyranitar (not the best, but will take non-stab non-se special hits, and all non-bug/fighting/ground physical hits)
Forretress ("resisting" boltbeam is a huge help, but you better make damn sure they don't have a fire attack. FB from lax OHKOs)
Porygon2 (can take hit from non-stab special attacks pretty easily. if you twave, that's a huge help. doesn't like fighting attacks or megahorn though)
Umbreon (easily takes hits from any non-se attack, and toxic would probably deter them from pursuing things further. charm will bail you out vs fighting/bug if you have no other option)

Growlers/Charmers: Self-explanatory, but pretty good given the sheer amount of cursers in the game. One Growl/charm will generally negate/neutralize any physical attacker and give you leeway as far as switching goes.

Miltank (self-explanatory set. use bs in most case, return if you're really scared of drumlax)
Umbreon (again, easy enough. toxic/pursuit's the standard for a reason. st growl/charm if you really want to be gay)
Blissey (not the best growler, because growlers need speed and some physical bulk, but at least it doesn't give curselax free setup)
Meganium (here because i've used it personally on a BL team, and it sorta worked. it's not great, but it's an option)
Slowbro (this use to be the premier growler in gsc if there ever was one, celia loved the thing. but celia's not that good, so slowbro's better off doing other stuff)

P-hazers: Again, another self-explanatory, but almost mandatory role. You do not want missy or something getting free kills on you. P-hazer is generally plan A or plan B vs stat uppers.

Skarmory (the first standard phazer, good for all forms of non-FB/LK/thunder lax. good for hera, umbreon, scizor, quag, there's honestly too many to list)
Tyranitar (originally used as the complement to skarm for covering FB lax. pretty good as a curse roarer, or if you just need ttar to take on multiple roles)
Steelix (pretty amazing phazer if your opponent hasn't got anything to hit it from the special side; lives 999 non-stab EQ, resists twave/thunder/toxic so plenty of longevity)
Suicune (roar cune has a use again with vap being so popular; toxic shuffle was one of the dominant strats for the longest time because it was reliable. lives 999 stab return)
Raikou (premier special wall in gsc, probably the best spikes shuffler in the game because of it walling/threat combination)
Rhydon (still pretty fucking good, even with HP legends. hitting 150 STAB off 358 hurts, and curseroar is always tough to stop)
Kangaskhan (phazer mostly used offensively to protect it against other phazers, not really defensively)
Zapdos (use to be a pretty popular phaze, but has since dropped off. if you're in a pinch, this is an option)
Any other pokemon with roar
Any pokemon with Perish Song
Any pokemon with Encore

Physical walls: Probably a good idea. Eats explosions when you need to (does that make Gengar/Missy a physical wall???). Takes normal hits from lax. GSC is generally seen as a physically-offensive gen for a reason.

Skarmory (the premier physical wall in gsc, with just about everything covered here. probably the only thing that reliably walls hera. too many to list)
Suicune (328 defense and 403 HP with no physical weakness; the main kicker is that it threatens most mixed/physical sweepers to boot: ttar, nido, marowak, dragonite, machamp to an extent)
Tyranitar (not bad either, as long as the attack isn't fighting, ground, or bug. ttar is generally the swiss army knife of roles, almost snorlax-esque)
Steelix (498 def makes it shrug off even SE moves, not so much Rhydon's EQ and machamp's CC though. a curse will patch things right up though)
Forretress (not bad at all, better than most, but it lacks the ability to phaze, so it can't really do anything in return. it does reflect, and curse, if you want to go there)
Rhydon (similar to steelix but with far more offensive punch. and you're weak to ice. and will prolly ko'd by any water/grass attack)
Cloyster (400+ def is great, 300 HP not so much. lacking physical resists, only physical weaknesses, and can't phaze. but it does reflect)
Golem (usually seen as an inferior rhydon/steelix, but usable in the odd case you need physical presence + explosion)
Miltank (growl alone makes tank into a physical... tank. only weak to fighting moves, and if it's not machamp, one growl will neutralize it)
Umbreon (pretty similar to miltank, but you get -2 attack at the cost of no one turn recovery. also, speed is slower than dnite/hera, but still faster than the rest)
Slowbro (growl/reflect combined with no physical weaks, 300+ def and almost 400 HP make it pretty good. but it is very slow. but you can always para)
Dragonite (if you played a defensive dnite, it's totally viable. reflect and haze makes for plenty of walling potential)
Zapdos (zapdos with reflect is an extremely formidable wall and immensely tough to take down)
Heracross (mostly on typing, since def stat isn't too impressive. resists fighting and eq and scares off rock/normal attackers for the most part)
Exeggutor (same as hera, but slightly less because of the lack of recovery. synthesis/moonlight is an option though, and there's still seed/drain)
Snorlax (seems almost counter-intuitive, but massive HP and a single curse patches up just about all non-Machamp CC physical attacks)

Special walls: Again, pretty damn important. Electrics are dominant in GSC, #2 and #3. Not having anything for them doesn’t make any sense at all. You’ll often find that a lone Snorlax often not enough to take the full brunt of Thunders off 348/328 spc atk, and you might want to invest into a secondary special absorber. It’s also possible to play around with finesse, using prediction to grounds to force the HP legends to HP more than Thunder on the switch, minimizing the damage Snorlax/something might have to take.

Blissey (#1 in terms of walling power, but that's all you're doing with it. passing a screen lets other, more threatening stuff wall and threaten at the same time though)
Raikou (the real #1 special wall imo, since it threatens most special attackers AND phazes. no spc weaks, only spc resists. monster threat in itself)
Snorlax (not bad, but won't take special hits forever, especially with spikes and/or toxic in play. growthers can take it down as well)
Jolteon (similar to raikou, but 333 hp, and [generally] lacks rest and roar makes it subpar)
Meganium (typing and stats make it damn good. fire attacks are rare, and ice attacks are usually non-stab, but synthesis has 8 pp)
Suicune (monster bulk makes up for sub-par special typing. takes SE hits up to the power of thunder dnite and giga drain egg, and threatens both in return)
BORAT (about 1% bulkier than suicune on the special side, so takes even SE hits well. and it usually STs. chalk another one up for BORAT)
Dragonite (
Zapdos (with light screen, becomes a real pest. no real special weaks since ice attacks are non-stab. shows off zap's versatility, and just a great set)
Muk (sort of, you survive two starmie psychics. and you're not weak to boltbeam. make something of it. muk's great)
Heracross (good spc def, not weak to boltbeam, threatens every non-zap special attacker to no end. don't want to be taking 180 base power hits from 300+ spc though)
Tyranitar (sort of, good spc def, good hp, not weak to boltbeam, but unless you have rest, don't do it too often. like hera, don't take 180 bp off 300+ spc)
Porygon2 (similar to the previous two, but less HP, but one turn recovery!!! with 32 pp! and like the previous two, don't take 180 off 300+)

Quagsire (a very unique case. it doesn't wall any of the special attackers, EXCEPT the two most common ones: zapdos and raikou. at least until they start running HP grass. this is worth mentioning, since not even Snorlax can switch into the electrics comfortably)

And of course, the misc support roles...

Sleeper: Not necessary, but it punishes teams that choose to forgo a status absorber and turns games into 5v6s instantly.

Snorlax (LK version wasn't as good as when I first used it in 2004, but still good. can sleep just about anything. LK drumlax is unstoppable)
Gengar (Hypnosis almost used defensively here, since it has few options vs umbreon/ttar. makes things awkward for most STers with its offensive threat)
Exeggutor (not bad, but once egg drops sleep, it seems to lose a lot of its power. skarms/forr come in all day if it doesn't fire, ttar if it doesn't giga)
Nidoking (pretty predictable sleep, but that doesn't make it any easier to deal with. hit zap a few times to make it think twice about taking LK)
Smeargle (really really predictable, but again, doesn't make it easier to deal with. good players will play aggressive vs smeargle. smeargle gets 2 shotted by everything)
Jynx (again, another staple. you threaten the most common STer in zapdos, so that's a bonus. sub lets you sleep when you want. jynx is fragile though)
Jumpluff (personally, I'm not a big fan of jumpluff, but it learns powder. so i'm listing it. and it does learn encore, which is an amazing move)
Blissey (i don't know why sing blissey isn't more common, but your opponent has control over what he wants you to sleep. you can use that to your adv as well. and sing can bail you out sometimes)

Para support: Again this is not mandatory, but probably one of the best support statuses in the game. I feel it's a great way to consistently make Marowak contribute (far more than joltwak anyway), since it's not a one-and-done thing. It also brings out the best in the likes of Drumquag, Drumfable, Drumzard, Drumlax, Growthvap, Cursechamp, Cursehera etc etc, those that just need a tiny push, where speed is the only thing stopping them.

Exeggutor (the best in the game, especially with leech seed forcing switches. combined with substitute and it's an absolute horror to play against)
Porygon2 (extremely underrated, definitely one of the best in the game at spreading any status around. twave + curse makes growltanks job pretty tough)
Zapdos (especially with twave, which probably puts it at #2 as far as para spread is concerned. a testament to zapdos' flexibility. thunder still counts too)
Dragonite (again, dragonite is plenty flexible when you need it to be. extremely good at paraing electrics, which helps out a lot of sweepers. oh, and thunder)
Snorlax (bslam snorlax spreads the love. curse + bslam has a small chance of lucking growltanks)
Starmie (might deter snorlax a bit, since a para'd lax is quite a bit less threatening. also deters electrics as well. damn good if you're not afraid of gengar spinblock)
Steelix (body slam is an old classic because steelix simply does not die. you can nail just about any flying pokemon, and growltanks too, which synergizes with other cursers)
Miltank (body slam is all it has, but all it needs. growl can forces switches to give you different looks, as long as they don't have missy/gengar)
Blissey (it doesn't always have to bell, y'know. twave to neutralize one of the many threats coming your way. makes tenta etc cry)
Raikou (thunder stuff)
Nidoking (thunder stuff again; please don't use body slam)
Marowak (Body Slam ST Marowak is underrated, more in the sleep talk section)
Slowbro (pretty versatile support pokemon if you couldn't tell)
Alakazam (works, but in the sense that it'll be an inferior starmie)

Toxic/poison: This is a great status vs teams without bellers, and still good vs bell teams. The fact that most offensive teams forgo the belling, and now even forgo resting, means this status puts them on a pretty short counter. Coupled with spikes, it has the potential to 5HKO without you throwing out a single attack. It's mostly the poison worth mentioning, since the Toxic "stacking" rarely matters (great vs last poke non-rest scenarios though!). Poison also stacks with spikes for 25% on the switch damage.

Umbreon (toxic charmbreon is the standard because it is. it does what it does.)
Suicune (toxic shuffle, the original version. if you can keep spikes, suicune can do a good job abusing it)
Skarmory (same as suicune, but slightly less so since it doens't threaten anything)
Blissey (used in conjunction with flamethrower for steels. pretty helpless vs poisons though)
Cloyster (pretty fucking good vs other cloysters, and give you a chance to keep spikes vs starmie with enough prediction)
Forretress (again, rapes cloyster and ensures you'll last longer than they do. that's probably it though, but that alone is worth it)
Porygon2 (um, it learn it. and pgon2 is surprisingly good at spreading status)
Snorlax (toxiclax, a classic set. with flamethrower for steels)
Tyranitar (put machamp on a counter if it doesn't rest, which most don't. give you a shot vs growltanks, and annoys the hell out of a couple other ttar switches)
Alakazam (honestly not that bad on him, but zam is not that good. so the two make for a very mediocore combination)
Muk (poison ttar/rhydon with sb, then your sweep is just about good to go)
Tentacruel (likewise, except not as much. your targets usually don't mind poison as much, but poison is poison)
Starmie (another status for starmie, and i've actually found toxic to be better than twave vs snorlaxes. and believe me, snorlax will switch into you)
Raichu (eh, bob/vil's encore toxic raichu is worth an honorary mention, and is the only "competitive" set raichu has)
Anything else you can think of with this universal TM

Pseudo passers: Since it's GSC, all that you're probably passing is Reflect/Light Screen. Safeguard is pretty bad. With that said, ppassing either of the screens is an almost forgotten strat that'll throw a lot of people off. An LS to Marowak means your opponent almost has to phaze it instead of hitting it with water/ice/grass attacks, and it makes the likes of Machamp really awkward to deal with. Giving reflect to Snorlax or Clefable lets them drum on just about anything they want to. And stuff like Tentacruel and Charizard are really difficult to play against when they've got screens up and you're looking down a potential sweep.

Zapdos (extremely overlooked, but a huge part of zapdos' alternative game. probably the best p-passer in the game)
Raikou (not as good as zapdos, mostly because roar is already in heavy competitive with ST as the main 4th move. reflect is not to be forgotten though)
Blissey (light screen can be used in conjunction with bell, and pretty good at setting fragile stuff up. but if you don't need bell, it easily becomes one of the best reflect passers)
Forretress (not bad, usually as a filler move. might save you an explosion vs drumlaxes overpredicting)
Cloyster (again, a filler move, and has similar usefulness as forretress')
Starmie (it's neutralizing snorlax switch-ins somewhat. also makes cloyster think twice about exploding. make's forretress's job a bit tougher as well)
Exeggutor (underrated ppasser, but only for the fact that it has so many other useful moves)
Porygon2 (again, this is an often overlooked, but very useful utility role player. it does more than just curse y'know!)
Dragonite (defensive dragonites are possible, and reflect/haze can legitimately shut down curselax, vap, among other things. oh, it screens too, for those pesky electrics)
Alakazam (pretty good way to ward off snorlax users. and if they curse, you can just encore it)
Jumpluff (see jumpluff description above)
Slowbro (growl and/or reflect makes for a pretty good defensive slowbro. good stats to boot, definitely worth a look. it was ou for a bit for a reason)
Ampharos (holder of both screens, something raikou can't attest to. pure electric, something zapdos can't attest to. too bad it's slow, but still viable as far as ppassing goes)

Sleep talker: Generic status absorber. But the idea here, is not to necessarily TAKE sleep if you don’t have to. You definitely want to be in control of your own sleep cycle, rather than banking on the randomness of Sleep Talk. Not being in control also makes you hyper-suseptible to off turn wake-ups, causing you to lose more turns than its worth. It’s extremely annoying when the sleeper is faster than you (Gengar/Nidoking?).

Zapdos (probably the universal set at this point. dp has no place except vs blissey, I'll take HP fire over DP vs hera)
Raikou (pretty common as well, but less so because roar raikou is more viable than any of zapdos' alternatives. same set as zap. crunch is nice in mirror matches)
Snorlax (iffy as a sleep talker, becuase you're losing a lot of offense on the best offensive pokemon in the game. but it becomes a monster tank)
Heracross (amazing sleep talker. s-toss for support, curse for the sweep vs non-dp teams. amazing typing and stats makes this guy last pretty damn long)
Suicune (probably a mixed sweeper's worst nightmare is a sleep talking cune. incredibly tough to take down, even with SE moves)
Machamp (cursechamp will catch a lot of teams that look to wear it down via spikes/toxic or something. similar to cursehera)
BORAT (i'm great. i made it. transitive property. it's great)
Marowak (a forgotten set, but EQ with either RS/BS gives marowak that much needed longevity, and what's really taking hits from 516 attack? not a good status absorber though)

Spiker/spinner: Self-explanatory again. Spin spikes for control. Switching is a huge part of GSC, more than any other generation. In longer matches, he who controls spikes, wins. It’s not super important in games < 40-50 turns, but still somewhat worth mentioning.

Starmie (probably the most reliable spinner of the three, at the tradeoff of not being able to set spikes. offers defensive coverage and support)
Cloyster (extremely suseptible to toxic. resting with it is definitely tough, and hard to keep spikes down vs starmie without outside support)
Forretress (the more defensive spiker, and keeps spikes vs starmie for the most part. loses it vs cloy, but you can toxic them. decent physical wall to boot)

Beller: Even more self-explanatory.

Miltank (the physical beller of the two. provide para support, and more importantly: growl. Fast too)
Blissey (the special side of the coin. it can technically growl, but that won't save you since you're slow and fragile. biggest upside are Light Screen and Sing)