With all the 5C running around will people start running Fulminator Mages (my version of 5C runs 3 - it is pretty close to EvEr's version) and does that make the fertile grounds worse? Would Rampant Growth work? You loose the ability to put it onto a untapped land and use it the same turn but at least it is more resiliant against LD or the Ajani/Icy keep your permanent tapped control decks.

I like this deck and am taking to FNM tonight. Doogle says that it rapes QnT something fierce and has Doogle ever told a lie? I think not.

I think the deck seems a bit unfocused (masked admirers? really?) I would like one more vess in the main and probably the fourth maw and finks somewhere. But again, I'll test it tonight and see how the admirers work. I can't imagine them being good though with Bant Charm, Unmake and Obv Ring all in the set. On the other hand, if they waste removal on it, that's fine with me.

Also, the mana base could use some work. I don't really like that many CIPT lands. I could probably use a few more filter lands, but I almost wanted to punch a hole in the wall after dealing with the mana on the r/b/g token deck.-x3 filter land hands SHIP IT!-x2 reflecting pool hands SHIP IT!-Mull to 5 and keep a x2 filter land ugh. Keep it and pray.-Get beat down by prickly boggart and moonglove changlings /cry

Also the sideboard is a work in progress. I think it looks something like this:x4 Thoughtseizex4 Kitchen Finksx1 Mawx1 Finksx2 Naturalize (ugh, I need something better here, should probably be infest)x1 Vessx2 Terror

At least I think that's it. I was going to run guttural response here, but I think something more proactive would be better. But I'll mentally file the response away for later. Think about it, it counters cryptic command, esper and bant charms and remove soul/negate. Not bad, not bad at all.

So I realize that I am possibly missing the very obvious but I don't see how this is that big of a deal for 5C to deal with.

There are no instant speed threats to tap them out so you can resolve mind shatter or Broodmate and the rest of the deck plays at Sorcery speed. There is no pressure early (first play is turn 2 fertile ground) and while turn 3 garruk untap 2 lands and finks sounds good is that enough early pressure (can you tell I just read Billy Moreno's article on scg?).

What about going back to Oona's prowler and mannequin for the early instant speed Broodmate or SGC. Or how about leaving the Maw's in the board (dead against 5C) and using Thrinax so there is a threat after a board sweeper? What about Thoughtseize MD?

No question you guys have much more experience with the decks so if you say it is good I am all for testing it - but to me on paper it just looks like a worse Rock deck. Sorry if I am way off base...

Well I haven't really played it, but the reality is that 5c has to tap out at some point to resolved a threat. Usually a wrath after you commit some guys to the board. That's when you hit them with the mind shatter and wreck their face.

Also they can't really deal with planewalkers, which makes every one you play a must counter. It wont be that hard to either run them out of counters (which is now basically bant charm and cryptic/maybe a negate or two), then you just wreck them with the mind shatter. After that you can play whatever the hell you want and just win.

Which is part of the reason I'm not onboard with masked admirers. I mean what does it do against anything? It gets killed most of the time and it trade with half a finks, breaks a thrinax. Yeah not impressed there.

So Stuart Wright posted a simlar version... It looked terrible I think... I don't like thoughtseize at all. I liked the skeleton of are list.. One thing I always really wanted while playing with the deck was a way to kill something at instant speed aka hells thunder or a demigod. So I fixed that I fixed my mana alot.

Rampant growth is such a redic card in this deck.. all you ever wanted to do was get to 4 mana on turn 2 so that helps.. Pyroclasm just feels strictly better right now to me. I might cut a eyeblights for the third V.U. not sure.