Summary: This contains several interviews conducted with survivors at one of the refugee camps set up in Ahmedabad to shelter victims of the 2002 carnage. People talk about the fear and tension ahead of the impending rathyatra, how they came to the camp, about conditions after the carnage, and how a refugee camp was tear-gassed by the police.

This footage is part of the Shared Footage collection. The Shared Footage Group was a collective formed in the aftermath of the carnage in Gujarat in 2002. It consisted of mainly film professionals and film students, apart from several others. The idea was to document survivor's stories on video so that the footage could be used later free of cost by anyone interested in the material.

(inaudible)
CM (Crew Member): We are not from any organisation or channel.
#MN10 (old man): Okay.
CM: We are doing as much as we can by ourselves. This will not be aired on TV. But, like we had a meeting in Mumbai where we discussed, with different people from all walks of life, about what was going on...

Shah aalam dargah camp
Interview
Shot on 11.07.02 11:00am
Visual
crew member interacting with a old man about why we are doing this project
rathyatra story

CM: What work do you do?
#MN10: I have worked at (indistinct) company for 32 years. Then I retired and did Haj. After I did Haj, I waited for a while and then got our son a job. And then, this 'riot' (toofaan) happened. There were riots in 1992, 1985, 1969. Even in '69, we were rendered homeless by the riots. We lost all our possessions.(?).

#MN10: Even in 1992 there was a big riot. They threw stones and damaged houses. But since everyone stayed indoors, nothing happened. And then in 2002 it happened again. On 28th February night. This time it caused us a lot of suffering. Homes and workplaces were plundered; everyone was beaten and chased from the village.

CM: What is the condition of your house now?
#MN10: My house - everything has been looted and burnt down. Gas cylinders were burst in the house. They left us bankrupt. They hacked off the doors and took them away. The loft has been broken. They used gas cylinders to destroy the whole house. (?)

CM: How long has it been since all this happened?
#MN10: This happened on 28th February. 28th February.
CM: And today is...?
#MN10: Today is the 11th.
CM: Have you received compensation for this now?
#MN10: No. I only got Rs.1250/- twice. Total Rs. 2500/- from the government.
CM: Did your house get surveyed?
#MN10: Yes, it was surveyed. We got 3000 rupees. That's all. The whole house was burnt down, and we got 3000 rupees for that.

CM: And what is the total cost of the damages you have incurred?
#MN10: Damages amount to 3,00,000 (three lakh) rupees.

CM: How will you start your life afresh now?
#MN10: We can do something if the government helps us. I can trade, or do business.

CM: How long do you think you will be at Shah Alam camp?
#MN10: It seems like we will be allowed to stay here approximately till the 15th.
CM: Today is the 11th, and you feel you will be here till the 15th?
#MN10: Yes.
CM: And after that, where will you go?
#MN10: We will have to go to our relatives' homes, for some time at least, until the house gets repaired. Once the house is repaired, we will go back home.

CM: Until the house is repaired, can't you live here?
#MN10: No, it's not allowed. There's an order to vacate the camp.
CM: Those who don't have homes, where would they go?
#MN10: They will go wherever they can. Maybe rent an apartment or something. But no one will be allowed to stay here longer.

CM: Why the order to shut down camp?
#MN10: It's been a lot of time now. Also there are ceremonies (urs) of the dargah for which it needs to be vacated. People will visit from all over.

CM: Today is the 11th. The Rathyatra is tomorrow. What do you think will happen?
#MN10: I don't think anything will happen. The government is maintaining vigil now; there is security, nothing should happen. When the riot broke out, they said the army (force) is not here but busy at the border. So they didn't have the (police) force to protect us. But when they have this Rathyatra, 47 companies have come here...Hindu.

shah aalam dargah camp
Interview
Shot on 11.07.02
rathyatra story
rural
talks about how for us muslims the govt did not have enough security, but for the rathyatra they have provided so much security, fears about the rathyatra the next day, temporary one-night refugees come into the camp in fear of the rathyatra

a
mentions name of village

CM: You have been here for many years.
#MN10: Yes, I was born in my village - in #AD8. My parents and grandparents also lived there.

CM: You have seen the yatra many times now. What happens during the rath yatra?
#MN10: While the yatra passes through, they utter unpleasant comments about Muslims. Some of us bear it, some cannot. So, it often leads to problems.
CM: But it's a very old yatra...
#MN10: Exactly it is an old yatra, but when they want to, they will keep creating these agitations. Some people can tolerate it, some can't. That's how riots start. Many of their filthy comments are directed at our ladies. Who knows - maybe they are drunk. A person isn't aware of his actions and words at times like that.

CM: You have lived in Ahmedabad for a long time now; did Hindus and Muslims live together in peace earlier?
#MN10: In our village - yes, we all lived together. In #AD8. We went for their festivals and ceremonies, and they came to our festivals, Id and other festivals. We called all sorts of people, even police and Shanti samiti members. We would go to the village police station while Shanti Samiti meetings were held and provide refreshments.

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mentions name of village

CM: You said that initially all communities lived together in peace; when do you think this rift appeared?
#MN10: Ever since the riots of '69, this rift grew wider. Though people had forgotten about it and got along fine even after that, but then riots broke out again in '85. It happened in '85, also in '92. They'd throw stones...

#MN10: When riots break out because of inflation (rising costs), the police clear rioters from there (city streets). The rioters then come here inside our neighbourhood and throw stones at our shops and homes. But the price of oil is the same for all. If there is inflation and prices go up, why throw stones at us?

#MN10: They've developed this habit; if no one else then...there are many other communities - Harijans, Baniyas, Thakurs, Bhadwars, Darbars - they all live here. Till date, we have never had an FIR filed against us in the police station. But even then they inflict this injustice on us. Wouldn't it seem then, that the reason is that we are Muslim?

CM: Do you feel this rift that has been created can ever be repaired (reconciled)?
#MN10: It could happen, if we maintained good relations; but it's also possible that it won't be fixed. If they continue their agitation like this, how can things get better? We would like to keep good relations and put all this behind us, but these people keep the unrest going.

CM: Who else do you have in your family?
#MN10: I have four sons. Two of them live with us, one son lives in the city. There is also my son's wife and their 2 children. All of us live together.
CM: Are they all here in this camp?
#MN10: Yes, in this camp only.

a
mention of village

CM: How many families from #AD8 are at this camp?
#MN10: Say about 70 men from the neighbourhood, and their families. Also from nearby, 40-50 families.
CM: Has anyone returned from here?
#MN10: No. Some people went, but they won't stay there. What can we do, they've broken down everyone's homes. Not a single person's house is intact. Not a single house in the neighbourhood! Everything's been destroyed - water taps are broken, electricity metres...even drainage (sewage) pipes have been broken.

CM: How many houses are there in the village?
#MN10: Around 203 houses in all.

CM: Since the Rathyatra is tomorrow, would some people come here (to camp) to stay tonight?
#MN10: If some people fear that riots may break out again, they may come here.
CM: Do you think anyone's come now?
#MN10: Yes, they have come.
CM: How many people?
#MN10: At least 50-100 people have come so far.
CM: Why?
#MN10: They are afraid of another riot breaking out and suffering more, all over again. If there is no police suport... Most of the police force is here in the city, if something happens there in the village what will they do? Then it's better for them to move to a safer place.

CM: And if all goes well tomorrow?
#MN10: Then they will go back.
CM: How soon?
#MN10: In 2 days. They will go back to their original location. (?)

#MN11 (Onlooker): There were no police during a riot that lasted an hour; but there have been hordes of cops here for the past three days. The police are outnumbering the public here!

shah aalam dargah camp
Interview
Shot on 11.07.02
int with #MN11, m, 40+, mts driver, #AD8-- talks about the change in relationship between friends in his office after this riots
rathyatra story

a
gives name and address

CM: Introduce yourself.
#MN11: I am #MN11. I live in #AD8. I have worked as a driver at MTS (?) for 22-23 years. For now, I live at Shah Alam camp.

CM: Do you still go to work?
#MN11: Yes, I go.
CM: Where you work, do Hindus work there too?
#MN11: Yes, they do.
CM: What is the work environment like, is it like before when everyone got along fine?
#MN11: The environment is the same. Everyone harbours resentment against the other. Like when we all sit to eat, co-workers stare at us (our people), as though they are wondering if we are going to do something to them.

#MN11: It seems they bear a grudge against us now. It's as if we have this deep-seated enmity between us, and I'm sitting in front of you, you would stare at me... Even now, in their hearts, they feel like this a little...

#MN11: So many Hindus as well as Muslims suffered (died), there was so much destruction; and yet in that hour of need the government did not call for the police. And now in three days look how much they are spending; look at the amount of security and police for the preparations...
CM: Which 3 days?
#MN11: The 3 days before this Rathyatra. The Rathyatra is on the 12th. On the 9th all this military and police force...! Had they brought in all this military and police force in the hours of the riots, there wouldn't have been so much destruction to life and property. Lives would have been saved.

shah aalam dargah camp
Interview
Shot on 11.07.02
rathyatra story
talks about the so much secrity provided for rathyatra but not for us during riots, ridiculous compensation given, discrimination against muslim students.

CM: Do you think tomorrow's yatra...?
#MN11: I can't say anything about this for sure. As their procession moves, they shout 'Jai Ranchod, Miya chor!' mixed in with their slogans. Now in so many people there has to be atleast one with half a brain who might say 'Don't do this.' It's volatile, someone could throw a stone at someone, anything could happen. If they shouted 'Jai Ranchod Jai Ranchod, Makhanchor!' as they proceeded, it would hurt no one. But instead they say things like 'Jai Ranchod, Miyachor! Jai Ranchod, Bhandyachor'.

CM: Perhaps their motive seems to be such...
#MN11: Yes, yes, they say it very clearly. We've been listening to it for years now. You can hear from anywhere in there, even from the kids. Their elders, the police, no one says anything to them.

CM: What do you think will happen this year? Will they do the same?
#MN11: One can't be sure. They are not doing it as much as they used to every year.
CM: The yatra...
#MN11: Yes, they are a little controlled this time. Usually their 'program' begins at 7 o'clock, but this time it's at 3:30. They've changed that too.

CM: Outside the camp, there are many Hindu people around. When I speak to them, if anything comes up about camp, they all say the same thing - that everyone at the camp has weapons, that terrorists have penetrated camps, that all this happens at camps. They say 'Don't go to camps, you will not return alive.'
#MN11: Yes, that's right. These people have created this lie a long time ago. A true Muslim, reads Namaz and as soon as he exits the mosque, his belongings are searched. They always look at us with suspicion. The police even check to see if there really is a corpse, and not weapons or bombs, when we have a funeral procession passing. As long as this suspicion does not leave the people of Gujarat, and even India, this environment will not change.

CM: What gave rise to this suspicion?
#MN11: What can I say, I have four children. I work and feed them. In 10 years, my home has been looted four times... or burnt. I break my back trying to make up the financial loss. I cannot educate my children (here). My children have been here for six months and so have lost the academic year. If I put them back in the same class, they will not want to study. What will these childen grow up and do? Tell me. The strongest point of a community is qualification. They have killed 'qualification' for us; they have made it impossible.

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mentions name of village

#MN11: At #AD8 my children have been going to school for a while now. The children of Patels' (Hindu) children do well, but no teacher pays attention to any Muslim children - they continue to behave in the same way they always have and learn nothing, till 5 o'clock. Then they go home at 5 o'clock...I can tell you many more stories like this, but who will tell the government?

CM: You now hold a government job?
#MN11: Yes.
CM: These things you are saying could also have a negative impact on you?
#MN11: Of course, it could. No matter how angry I get, I try to keep a hold on myself and calm myself down by saying "No, this is wrong."
CM: You're saying these things on camera, if I aired this tape on TV you might get into a lot of trouble.
#MN11: Yes, it's possible. That is without question.
CM: Then why say these things?
#MN11: What can one do when one is so thoroughly frustrated?

#MN11: You have been coming here since four months now.
CM: I have been coming since two months.
#MN11: Okay, two months. But we've been here for the past four months. Now where are my children, where am I? From whose home do we leave when we go to work? We go through so many difficulties. We have money, but not the time to eat. You tell me, wouldn't that anger any human being? He can just say things to vent his frustrations and calm himself.

CM: How badly has your home been destroyed?
#MN11: It is completely wiped out.
CM: Compensation?
#MN11: I got 7,000 rupees in total as compensation. Only my television cost 17 or 18,000 rupees! I got as compensation 7,000/- for the house, and 2,500/- for household things. The government is such a thief!
CM: In total they gave you 9,500 rupees?
#MN11: They gave me 9,500 rupees. If we did the same things to some minister's home, turn his home upside- down, break his pipes, break his drainage / sewage pipes too, and then if we gave him 7,000/- rupees and say ,'Okay, you manage in this', how would he feel?
CM: Did you have a sewing machine at home?
#MN11: No, we didn't have a sewing machine.

CM: Many people's sewing machines have been purposely destroyed. Why did they do this?
#MN11: I never was in that line of business. All the children from my home go to school. Two children are older...
CM: It seems if there was a cart they destroyed the cart, if there was a sewing machine they destroyed the sewing machine.
#MN11: There may be some people who (wrongly) try to take from the government by...doing these things. The remaining truthful ones still suffer. The wrong-doers manage to get more from many places than they have actually lost.

CM: Does the government run these camps?
#MN11: My understanding is that for the past one month the community has been keeping the camps going. Before that, the Collector had sent grains and provisions which lasted for sometime. They paid between two or three rupees per person. Even that was siphoned off (?). If I take my 4 children and go, I have the slightest glimmer of hope that I may get five to ten thousand rupees and manage to survive somehow.

CM: What provisions came from the government to run camps?
#MN11: They sent grain, pulses,...
CM: And how many people were here then?
#MN11: There were many people - around fifteen or twenty thousand? (confirms with someone else) Twelve thousand?
CM: And how many are left now?
#MN11: Now at the most there must be 2,500 people, not more. Really. Quite a few left.

CM: Some people were saying that there were no proper toilet facilities here?
#MN11: No, at that time there weren't. But now it's all there. The corporation set one up, then there was one here from before...facilities are there.
CM: How did your time go here in the beginning?
#MN11: In the beginning, it was difficult. People were too many. Everything was that much more difficult. But then it was all okay.

CM: We want to show the people the outcome of this situation - this hatred that is created between the communities. The government will never show this on national TV (Doordarshan), even the big channels would not air this. All we can do to spread awareness is to create CD's and distribute them to people.
Voice: Maybe if you spread awareness some would understand and the situation can be taken care of. They should also know what we have gone through.

shah aalam dargah camp
Shot on 11.07.02
Visual
rathyatra story
shot of girls in camp applying mehandi on their hand

Shah aalam dargah camp
Interview
Shot on 11.07.02
camp
int with #MN11--talks about when they came to this camp & what happened on 28th feb
rathyatra story

CM: When did you arrive at this camp?
#MN11: We arrived here on the night of the 28th at 3 am.
CM: How did you get here at 3 am?
#MN11: Someone from Shah Alam had a mobile phone and spoke to someone here asking for help. Then they came from here along with police protection in a bus to fetch us.
CM: What was the day like on the 28th?
#MN11: The 28th was a very dangerous day for us. We were lucky to have escaped death that day. In 48 years of my life I saw this for the first time. I had never seen so much rioting before.

a
mentions village

CM: The perpetrators, do you think they were insiders or from outside?
#MN11: Everyone was from our locality, from #AD8. No one was from outside. There were very few outsiders, all from surrounding localities.
CM: Have any of those people been arrested or are they roaming scot-free?
#MN11: Yes, some have been arrested.
CM: Have a few been arrested or all...?
#MN11: The main perpetrators have been arrested.
CM: Do you think they will remain behind bars?
#MN11: That depends on our government. What can I say in this matter? If a person from the panchnama (village heads), or a reliable source vouches for the truth and identifies the perpetrators - then it's up to the government to punish them.

a
mentions village

a
crew member mentions name of village

CM: Close to #AD7 is #AD11. What was their role?
#MN11: Only a few of them are like this, the rest are good people. Many of them have helped saved many Muslims. Some people involved with Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), Bajrang Dal and BJP have done this. But the rest are very nice. They would even pick up people (Muslims) and bring them here.
CM: Do you know of anyone who has done this?
#MN11: At that time we didn't realise all this. But our people who came later said that the chhare brought them here to safety.

shah aalam dargah camp
Interview
Shot on 11.07.02
rathyatra story
talks about that only few chaaras are bad but lot of chaaras have saved muslims

a
mentions locality

CM: But they looted...
#MN11: Yes they may have done... we left our homes and came here. Then any person, even a neighbour could loot us.
CM: Okay, they may have looted (burgled), but did they participate in the violence (killing) too?
#MN11: No, not in the killing. It can't be them...(?)
CM: I'm asking did the chhare also take part in the beating and killing?
#MN11: No chhare were not involved.

a
mentions locality

#MN11: #AD7 and #AD8 have a lot of differences. We don't know what is going on there, and they don't know what is going on here; and they are only two kilometres apart. That is why I don't know much about what happened there.

#MN11: In a bunch of people who knows what each one's thoughts and intentions are?
CM: No but they have also done some very good deeds. They have saved many.
#MN11: Yes they have saved many.
CM: One man saved 60 people...

a
gives name and address

CM: Tell us your name and address.
#MN12: My name is #MN12 from #AD8.
CM: How long have you lived here in this camp?
#MN12: It's been more than four months.
CM: Then you left from here?
#MN12: I had left for eight days. My family had left a month and half before. They were living in my sister's rented apartment then.

Shah aalam dargah camp
Interview
Shot on 11.07.02
int with #MN12, m, 25+, #AD8-- he has came back to camp as rathyatra is going to pass
rathyatra story

CM: Today is the 11th...What is the full date?
#MN12: 11-07-2002
CM: You have returned today?
#MN12: My family came here today, but I had come here since 2-3 days.
CM: And when will you return?
#MN12: As soon as we feel there will be no more riots we shall return.
CM: You came specifically because of the yatra?
#MN12: We're a little afraid about the yatra. That's why we came here. Although because of the rains it is pretty inconvenient to live at the camp. So we've set up house there, we shall stay there for sometime.
CM: On rent?
#MN12: Yes, on rent.

CM: But during the yatra?
#MN12: During the yatra we will stay here.
CM: What do you feel...?
#MN12: I don't think anything will happen now that there's all this police here. But still the air is a bit tense.
CM: So then what keeps you here?
#MN12: Terror! The terror we have seen at #AD8 is why we are here. Relatives were in small villages that comprised 25 or so homes. Anything could have happen there, and so to be safer we came here.
CM: If all goes smoothly tomorrow then will you return?
#MN12: Yes, we'll return the day after tomorrow. If nothing happens, we will return.

a
mentions locality

CM: How badly has your home and property suffered?
#MN12: It was completely destroyed. It has been looted and burnt down. Nothing is left, not even the walls.
CM: What about compensation?
#MN12: Oh, cheque...we got a cheque for 8000 rupees. Only 8,000.
CM: And your damages?
#MN12: Damages...3,00,000 (three lakhs).
CM: On what basis have they calculated this amount?
#MN12: Who knows! Varous teams had come, but did not conduct surveys properly. They just took names and made us sign. That's all.

CM: Do you know of anyone who received a proper amount based on the survey?
#MN12: No, not really.
CM: No one?
#MN12: No. Then they'd have to do for everyone.
CM: How can it be that everyone's survey was done improperly? I would have believed a few mistakes. But how can every survey have gone wrong?
#MN12: They didn't really see anything. They just wrote down names and addresses. They did not go to the houses and see the extent of the damages. They just did as they pleased.
Voice from behind: All they did was write names, they did not come to check damages...

shah aalam dargah camp
Shot on 11.07.02
Visual
rathyatra story
shot of #MN10 bringing a bag from his luggage & then showing the cheque received as compensation

v
name visible on cheque

CM: There was a man, his morale was low; had he been able to boost his morale, something may have worked out. He saw the cheque and had a heart attack.

CM: Tell us your name and address please.
#FN10: My name? My name or my... #FN10, from #AD7.
CM: How long have you lived at this camp?
#FN10: We've been here for 4 months.
CM: When had you returned from here?
#FN10: We had gone for 10-11 days.
CM: What is the date today?
#FN10: It is the 11th today.
CM: 11th August. How come you came back here today?
#FN10: We didn't come today. We came on Friday.
Voice: Just say today, na!
CM: No no, no problem. So why did you come back here on Friday?
#FN10: We came because of the rathyatra.
CM: If the Rathyatra passes by smoothly then when will you be able to return from here?
#FN10: We'll go when they send us back from here we'll leave camp. It's not their responsibility...how can we leave just like that?

a
name and address

Shah aalam dargah camp
Interview
Shot on 11.07.02
int with #FN10, f, 15+, #AD7, she also returned to camp out of fear of rathyatra
rathyatra story

CM: What is the status of your home; is it safe or gone?
#FN10: Our house is alright. But everyone else's homes have been looted and burnt down.
CM: And your things...?
#FN10: Our things...?
CM: Your things are safe at home or have they been looted?
#FN10: Some of it was looted, some of it is there.
CM: Have you got any compensation?
#FN10: No. We haven't got anything yet.
CM: Have you applied for it?
#FN10: Yes, we filed an application (for compensation) here.

Shah aalam dargah camp
Interview
Shot on 11.07.02
int with #FN11, f, 45+, ---she also returned to camp out of fear of rathyatra
rathyatra story

CM: Tell us your name and address.
#FN11: I am #FN11.

a
name and address

CM: Are you from this camp or another?
#FN11: I was first in that camp, Madhubai (mill) compound. Then they asked us to leave, so we came here. Our house was completely burnt down, but we didn't get any compensation for it. All we got is 12,500 rupees. Can we build a house in Rs. 12,500? We had two carts - my son would man one, and two of us women operated the other one. For all that they've given us just 12,500 rupees and then 2,500 rupees. In all, they gave us 15,000. Can we build a home in 15000? The house has been burnt to the ground.

CM: Now which area were you in?
#FN11: I was at (?), at my relative's mother's place. Then on Saturday evening I came here.
CM: Here as in?
#FN11: Here, to Shah Alam.
CM: So why did you come here?
#FN11: We came out of fear of the Rathyatra. If something suddenly happens...for now we've just lost property, but we fear losing our lives. So we came here.

CM: Tell us your name and address.
#MN13: #MN13 from #AD19.

shah aalam dargah camp
Interview
Shot on 11.07.02
int with #MN13, m, 15+, -- he also came back to the camp because of rathyatra
rathyatra story

a
name and address

CM: After the pandemonium, when did you come to this camp?
#MN13: I came after eight days.
CM: Where were you for eight days?
#MN13: I was at my father's boss's house.
CM: Your father's boss? Is he Hindu or Muslim?
#MN13: He is Hindu. He is Maharashtrian.
CM: He kept you safe?
#MN13: Yes.
CM: How did you come here after that?
#MN13: My father had come to (indistinct)(?) to fetch me. From there I came here.

CM: Where was your father?
#MN13: He was here at the camp.
CM: He had come here before you?
#MN13: Yes.
CM: Then for how long did you stay here at the camp?
#MN13: I stayed for two or two-and-a-half months, not more.
CM: Then?
#MN13: Then I went to my grandfather's place. Then from there to the school in #AD19.

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mentions locality

CM: What is the date today?
#MN13: It is the 11th.
CM: 11th...Oh 11th July. You came back here today?
#MN13: I came here on the 9th.
CM: How long will you stay here?
#MN13: Till the 13th.
CM: Why like that?
#MN13: If things calm down we will leave here on the 13th. But if things go bad we will stay here.

CM: What happens during the yatra?
#MN13: There is commotion, they beat people up. Because they have burnt so many people in our village, we are afraid. 25 people in our 'line' were burnt.
CM: Is your home safe?
#MN13: It was burnt down- it is okay but all our things have been looted.
CM: Have you received any compensation for that?
#MN13: We have not been given any cheque yet. They give us some money for expenses here, but we haven't got a cheque.

CM: What work does your father do?
#MN13: He is a welder.
CM: And you?
#MN13: I am an electrician.
CM: Did you get work once you got back?
#MN13: Yes.
CM: And your father?
#MN13: He also has a job, the same place he was working at before.

CM: What do you think will happen on the 12th?
#MN13: I don't think anything will happen.
CM: Why? Because of the security? Or...
#MN13: Because - just the day before yesterday when I arrived from my uncle's, I saw lots of police stationed all over. That's why I don't think anything will happen.
CM: Where is your uncle?
#MN13: Shahpur.

CM: Tell us you name and address.
#MN14: #MN14

a
name and address

shah aalam dargah camp
Interview
Shot on 11.07.02
int with #MN14,m, 45+, -- he also reurned to camp because of the fear of rathyatra
rathyatra story

CM: Where were you when this pandemonium broke loose?
#MN14: I was at Juhapura.
CM: What was it like that day in Juhapura?
#MN14: There was chaos that day, for half an hour. (unclear) I came back to... (?)
CM: Where did you return?
#MN14: Juhapura...
CM: Is there a garage in Juhapura?
#MN14: There isn't a garage, I have a contract, I do leverage and welding for cars. ...
CM: Are you getting work after the riot?
#MN14: (?)It is difficult.
CM: Why are people not getting work now?
#MN14: They say to come back later...

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current locality

CM: Where do you live?
#MN14: ###
CM: What brings you here today?
#MN14: I have come here from fear of another riot.
CM: During the Rathyatra?
#MN14: Yes. For the Rathyatra.
CM: And how long will you stay here?
#MN14: So long as no commotion happens we will leave soon.

CM: How many family members do you have?
#MN14: I have a wife and two children.
CM: Are they all here?
#MN14: Yes.
CM: How many people do you think have come here today?
#MN14: Many. I don't know. I ask for work; they tell me they don't have any to give out - they ask me to come later. I even went to Ajmer, there's no work there.
CM: What did you go to Ajmer for?
#MN14: I went for welding work. But even there I got no work. This is the only problem I have. That is why I'm sitting here in the dargah. I don't have anything - not even clothes.

CM: I have been coming here and talking to many people for a while now.
#MN15: Yes.
CM: Please introduce yourself.
#MN15: My name is #MN15.

shah aalam dargah camp
Interview
Shot on 11.07.02
int with #MN15, m, 50+, member in camp organisers committee-- talks about the people are returning to the camp on the occasion of rathyatra
rathyatra story

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CM: Could you tell us how many people were initially at this camp, and how many are here now?
#MN15: There were 4,789 people here at our camp.
CM: On what date was this?
#MN15: This was day before yesterday. And since 15 days this has been going on.
CM: The date...today is 11th July.
#MN15: Yes. For 15 days this has continued 4,782. We will observe the situation tomorrow when the yatra passes tomorrow. People have come here for fear of the Rathyatra passing. About 2,000 more have come.
CM: Do you think more people will come tonight?
#MN15: Yes, for sure.
CM: How many more do you think will come?
#MN15: I think all those who left here will come back. Initially there were 13,800 people here... The government has taken security measures, but still, if something happens tomorrow...things could go bad. So the police measures are decent, it would be nice if all goes smoothly. But their lives have already been wrecked. They live in fear and come running to the camp if anything happens. They know they will be fed here. We have arranged for extra food to be cooked tonight, just in case more people land up tonight. We cannot put them to sleep on empty stomachs.

CM: Had you pre-empted so many people coming here tonight?
#MN15: No, not like that. We are being prepared just in case. So no one goes to bed hungry or thirsty.
CM: So preparations for tonight are underway?
#MN15: Yes. No one should go hungry.
CM: Tomorrow...
#MN15: It would be great if there are no problems tomorrow. Then all these people can go back home on the 15th. It would be nice if we get police support too.

CM: This camp will only run till the 15th?
#MN15: No, the collector has now increased the duration of the running of this camp. But if they got police support and compensation they could go about their livelihood again. The situation is bad in many places. Like Naroda Patiya is fully destroyed; there is no means of livelihood and none of them have homes anymore.
CM: How long do you think you will have to run this camp?
#MN15: That is completely dependent on the government and the government can do as it pleases. They give us raw rations, we cook and feed the people.

shah aalam dargah camp
Shot on 11.07.02
Visual
camp
general shot of sahe aalam camp some religious song is going in the b.g
rathyatra story

CM: Introduce yourself...
#MN16: My name is #MN16, from #AD7. I run a tea stall.
CM: What did you do after the 28th?
#MN16: After that we stayed at the camp.
CM: When on the 28th did you arrrive here?
#MN16: We got here in the night, at 2:30 am on the 28th.
CM: What was the day like?
#MN16: On the 28th, we were going about our daily lives as the mobs arrived, then the looting, violence and carnage began. It went on from 9am to 7pm, there at #AD7. As the mobs penetrated deeper into our localities, we ran in for safety. Houses were burnt down, looted; people were killed, women were raped. They even destroyed mosques. They exploded gas cylinders in the mosque. They burnt women alive, raped them...we kept running. They burnt alive anyone they managed to catch. We begged the police for help, but no one was ready to help us. We kept running for our lives, and found some corner to hide in. Then at night, at 2:30am a party was sent from here to fetch us, and we came here.

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name

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CM: How long did you stay here?
#MN16: We've been here from the 28th till today.
CM: You did not return home at all?
#MN16: We aren't going to get any work sitting here. We will have to go and start business afresh if things get back to normal. Even shops have been looted there. We've got some stuff to slowly get back to business for the past 10-15 days.
CM: Where have you been living for these 10-15 days?
#MN16: We stayed here only at the camp, I'd return at night.
CM: Are they any people who have not returned to camp today?
#MN16: Yes there are. There must be 20-25 families living there at #AD7. Two or three families are staying there, they haven't come yet. One of my friends, his shop is open today, there at #AD7.
CM: Will his shop remain open tomorrow?
#MN16: No not tomorrow. It will be shut for the Rathyatra.

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shah aalam dargah camp
Interview
Shot on 11.07.02
rathyatra story
talks about the returning of 20-25 families from #AD7 because of rathyatra

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mentions locality

CM: What is going to happen in the Rathyatra?
#MN16: I don't know, something could break out. I don't know.
CM: What do you feel? Will it pass smoothly tomorrow?
#MN16: What can I say? There is no safety for our people even at home. How can we say what will happen and what won't?
CM: How long will you stay here in this camp?
#MN16: It depends on when they get rid of us. Who knows?
CM: What is the condition of your house?
#MN16: We're lying here at the camp, what could our status be!
CM: No I mean your house.
#MN16: Our house at #AD7? It has been burnt inside out; everything is looted...it's been burnt to the ground.
CM: How much compensation did you get?
#MN16: I got 2,500 rupees in compensation.
CM: This was towards your house?
#MN16: Yes, for the entire house that burnt down I got 2,500 rupees.
CM: And for your property that was looted?
#MN16: I got nothing for that. Just 2,500 rupees in all. We have a two-storeyed house; it was completely looted and burnt down - and all we got is 2,500 rupees.
CM: How much do you think your damages are?
#MN16: Damages... we had two storeys - up and down, both had our things that must have amounted to about 1.5 lakhs - including clothes and household articles. Everything was looted and burnt, and for that a cheque worth only 2,500 rupees.

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CM: Who else is in your family?
#MN16: There's my father.
CM: What does he do?
#MN16: He works will me at the tea-stall. I also have six sisters, and my mother. I'm the only brother.
CM: Are you married?
#MN16: Yes.
CM: When did you get married?
#MN16: It has been about a month-and-a-half, or a month. We got married at the camp in #AD5.

CM: There was an incident that day you got married?
#MN16: Yes.
CM: What happened that day?
#MN16: The police opened fire and tear-gassed us. They even tear-gassed the wedding. It suddenly got chaotic - police firing and tear-gassing us. They even came into the camp, to Juhapura camp.
CM: Why did they tear-gas the camp?
#MN16: I don't know that.
CM: Were people upto rowdiness in the camp?
#MN16: No. Weddings were taking place at the camp.
X: 23 weddings were taking place at camp.
CM: How many weddings?
#MN16: 17 or 18 weddings were taking place at the camp. Who knows what happened outside, police even came inside the camp and began tear-gassing us. Everyone was frightened, children were crying. People were saying, "What's going on? What's happening?"

#MN16: We were begging them to stop doing this, no one was listening to us. We were being tear-gassed. It was entering our eyes, causing physical discomfort. It was maddening, women and children were terrified, crying and screaming.
CM: You were at camp at that time?
#MN16: I was at camp.
CM: What was happening at that time? Had the wedding ceremony begun?
#MN16: The ceremony was just about to begin, preparations were under way. But then the situation turned very dark. Everyone was saying the time for the ceremony is coming close, don't do this, stop. But no one listened. We were still being tear-gassed, children were running around scared at the time of the wedding.
CM: So then when did the ceremony happen?
#MN16: On the same day.
CM: After how much time?
#MN16: At least three to four hours later. Everyone's eyes were affected by the teargas. Then the camp people gave us something to apply in the eyes to soothe them. No one even ate that day. I myself didn't eat. As food was being prepared, the tear-gassing had begun. Then we began to wonder why our eyes were burning, and then realised it was because of the teargas.

CM: People in the wedding parties were crying?
#MN16: Totally, everyone was crying.
CM: Everyone was affected by the teargas?
#MN16: Yes, everyone.
CM: (indistinct)...
#MN16: (?)... people were falling all over, bullets were being fired, everyone was afraid.
X: They were throwing bombs behind the camp?
#MN16: The situation was extremely tense.

CM: If all goes well on the 12th and 13th, then what will you do; when will you be able to return home and begin normal life again?
#MN16: There is no protection there. We all feel if all this has happened once, it will definitely happen again. Some say we should return, some say we shouldn't.
CM: It will happen again?
#MN16: If it has happened once in a certain place, it would definitely happen again there. If we are to go and live there again, we need protection. We need some security.

CM: Were the perpetrators from there or were they outside people?
#MN16: They were outsiders as well as people from the village.
CM: Have they been punished? Or are they roaming around scot-free?
#MN16: Some have been arrested. But the rest are roaming around.
X: The rich ones have been set free.
CM: Do you know anyone who was involved in all this and is now roaming around free?
#MN16: (nods) Mostly they would be 'auto' people...Bipin Auto. It was the Bipin Auto guy. Such people haven't been caught yet.

CM: Where is your village?
#MN16: ###
CM: Where were you born?
#MN16: I was born here. My father was born there. I was born in Ahmedabad.

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mentions native village

X: ...take them to meet the two or three ladies who have just arrived.

CM: Introduce yourself.
#MN17: I am #MN17 from ###
CM: What do you do?
#MN17: I am a four-wheeler and two-wheeler salesman. And a mechanic.
CM: Where were you when the riot broke out?
#MN17: After the riot I came straight here.
CM: Here as in, to the camp?
#MN17: Yes.
CM: How long did you have to stay here?
#MN17: Including this time as well it would be six months in all...the fifth month.
CM: When did you go back?
#MN17: One month after the riot we went back. Then for three months we haven't been back. After that, now it's been fifteen days since I've started working again.
CM: So you started working again, and living there too?
#MN17: Living there...some people did. But we didn't stay as such.

CM: Where were you for the past 10-15 days?
#MN17: In Shahpur, we'd stay there for two days and then two days in Patiya. My parents would stay back and if they came here then I'd go to my uncle's place at Shahpur - Saibag, Shahpur.
CM: When did you return to Shah Alam?
#MN17: I got to Shah Alam yesterday.
CM: Yesterday was what date? ...the 10th. How long do you plan on staying here?
#MN17: Till tomorrow. I'll go back on Sunday.
CM: If all goes well during the yatra tomorrow, then you'll return?
#MN17: Then from Monday, ###.

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CM: What do you think is going to happen this time?
#MN17: I don't know.
CM: You've left home and come back to camp. Do you fear something?
#MN17: Yes, I fear some riots breaking out.
CM: That's the reason you came back here?
#MN17: That's the reason.

CM: You must have seen before what happens during the yatra. What is it like? Why do people come here during the yatra?
#MN17: I don't know about the 'big' people. But while the yatra passes by, one of us or even an outsider could throw a single stone at the procession and start off something bigger. I saw this last year too.

CM: How long will you wait for things to calm down?
#MN17: Just till Monday - till Sunday.
CM: Sunday would be what date?
#MN17: 13th.
CM: On the 13th if all goes well...?
#MN17: ###

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shah aalam dargah camp
Interview
Shot on 11.07.02
int with #FN12, f, 40+, #AD7, talks about the returning back to the camp even after safety assurances given by the police for rathyatra
rathyatra story

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name and address

CM: Tell us your name and address.
#FN12: My name is #FN12, from #AD7.
CM: Where were you after the riot?
#FN12: I came here.
CM: To which camp?
#FN12: Here, this camp, Shah Alam.
CM: Then you went back ten or fifteen days earlier?
#FN12: We went 20 days ago.
CM: When did you return here?
#FN12: I came yesterday.
CM: Today is the 11th. So you came here on the 10th.
#FN12: Yes. The police were telling us not to leave our homes, but we came here out of fear of another riot breaking our again.
CM: Why?
#FN12: After seeing all that one can only be terrified.
CM: Why do feel something might happen now?
#FN12: Everyone's been saying 'somthing will happen', so we're frightened and came here. They were saying there is no need to go back (to the camp), 'we will take care of you, don't go back'.

CM: If all goes well tomorrow will you return home?
#FN12: Then we'll go back the day after tomorrow.
#FN13: If tomorrow the rath passes peacefully, then we'll leave. Our livelihood and homes are there, what should we do here? Here we only get food, not money.
CM: What is your name?
#FN13: My name is #FN13.
CM: And where do you stay?
#FN13: I live in #AD7.

CM: What do you think will happen tomorrow?
#FN13: Only God knows what will happen. You and I cannot say what will happen. Some say something will happen, some say nothing will happen. There's no guarantee of anything. The police did not help us then, so now we don't trust the police either. Still, they tell us they will arrange for our security and keep us from harm. We have made all the arrangements. Yet, my people are here. My children and husband. So I came back last night. If tomorrow is uneventful we will return day after tomorrow.
CM: How many families from #AD7 had gone back?
#FN13: There were atleast five to ten houses at (this location) in #AD7. From (another location) in #AD7, there are more.

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CM: Everyone from there has come here?
#FN13: Most have come here. There are two or three families who are still in their homes. They don't want to come here, they want to stay there.
Y: It's been a month since they went.

interview with #FN14, f, 60, #AD7

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address

#FN13: At #AD7
CM: Where?
#FN13: ###. It was nice staying there (home), but there is always fear in our hearts. They made such a scene that it was almost impossible for us to escape. A lot of people died in our neighbourhood. Innocent children, women, men, many have died. At night, sleep still eludes me because of that fear. Many SRP officials asked us to not come here and stay there. They told us not to worry. But even after staying a month, I am left sleepless at night. Even now I would like to stay there, but people are saying something might happen because of the yatra. Some people say nothing will happen. I've come here to the camp because of this fear. No one likes leaving their home like this. But we are afraid. In our neighbourhood every home has been looted, many have been burnt. Our homes were destroyed. Our livelihood too is destroyed. Numerous people are unemployed now. Yet, there are four or five families who still choose to live in their homes.
CM: Would you tell us your name?
#FN13: My name is #FN13.
CM: Address?
#FN13: #AD7.