Is Snoke Darth Plagueis in Star Wars: The Force Awakens

The outlandish theory keeps gaining steam. Is Snoke Darth Plagueis, and should we care? (Who is that anyways?) Evidence can argue either way.

Recently, Collider released a video to talk about a topic that has been hotly debated by fans: the identity of Supreme Leader Snoke. Snoke, played by Andy Serkis, is a motion-capture character who can be heard in the original The Force Awakens teaser trailer with his line, “There has been an awakening, have you felt it?” The character has Dark Side connections and, based on what we know, commands the First Order. Characters like Kylo Ren report to him.

While most of the characters in The Force Awakens are new characters (except those played by returning actors), fans have speculated since the beginning that Snoke might be Darth Plagueis, who was first mentioned by Palpatine (Darth Sidious) in Episode III: Revenge of the Sith. Recently, a Spanish language magazine had a few character images from The Force Awakens. Included in these images was a look at Supreme Leader Snoke, who looked suspiciously like Darth Plagueis. The folks at Collider checked with their sources and, though they didn’t confirm that Snoke is Plagueis, their sources did confirm that this is what Snoke looks like.

This created quite a stir among Star Wars fans. While many think that Snoke is indeed Plagueis, there are many fans who adamantly think otherwise. There’s an argument to be had on both sides.

Who is Darth Plagueis?

According to George Lucas, Plagueis was a Muun, a thin, narrow-faced species of alien with a flair for finances. A Star Wars book, Darth Plagueis, detailed the story of this Sith, who was Palpatine’s master. However, this book is no longer canon, so we cannot assume that Plagueis’ backstory/species are the same in the new Star Wars canon.

Here’s what little we do know:

According to Palpatine, “Darth Plagueis was a dark lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise. He could influence the midichlorians to create life. He had such a knowledge of the Dark Side, he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.” So Plagueis had some power over life and death. We also learn that Palpatine killed Plagueis in his sleep. But this information is vague at best, and depends on the validity of Palpatine’s statement, which we can’t confirm.

The Argument For

Despite many fans vehemently arguing that Snoke cannot be Plagueis, there does seem to be some evidence to the contrary, especially this last week.

1. Collider’s Video and the Spanish Language Magazine

Collider, in their video, confirmed through their sources that the magazine image does look like Snoke. Of course, the magazine could be a fake, and Collider acknowledges that. But even if it is a fake, Collider’s sources say that this is pretty much what Snoke looks like.

So the real question is, can we trust Collider’s sources? Collider is a fairly reputable entertainment news site, but they don’t get everything right. Yet the fact that they’re willing to stick to this theory only a few days before we find out the truth says something about their confidence in the rumor.

But again, this doesn’t confirm that Snoke is Plagueis. It only suggests that Snoke looks like a Muun.

2. Disney Asks Collider to Edit Their Video

Adding fuel to this rumor is the fact that Disney asked Collider to edit out that part of the video (which they have). Let’s assume that the image was a fake and that Snoke doesn’t look like Plagueis. If so, it wouldn’t make much sense for Disney to request the removal of that segment. In fact, this move by Disney only increases the possibility that there’s some credibility to the image, or Collider’s sources.

3. People Magazine Description

People Magazine released an issue with some information on Snoke from Neal Scanlan (head of creature effects for The Force Awakens). In this article, he specifies that Snoke is seven feet tall and “very, very thin.” Tall and thin perfectly describes a Muun, Plagueis’ species. However, tall and thin really isn’t solid evidence of what Snoke looks like (and in fact describes a lot of species in the Star Wars galaxy, including some we’ve seen before). It just doesn’t disprove the theory.

4. Darth Plagueis’ Abilities

Palpatine says that Plagueis was killed in his sleep. But remember that Plagueis had abilities unparalleled by other Sith or Jedi. He had power over life and death. Now, the simplest answer is that Plagueis is dead when Palpatine says he is, but writers could easily get around this dialogue if they wanted to. You could argue that Palpatine lied, or that Plagueis deceived Palpatine. Remember, this is a saga about space wizards with laser swords. Anything is possible.

The Argument Against

Despite some odd evidence to the contrary, it isn’t likely that Snoke is Darth Plagueis. It’s actually pretty easy to make a strong counter-argument without having to jump through quite so many narrative hoops.

1. San Diego Comic Con

At the San Diego Comic Con panel a fan asked about Darth Plagueis. Lawrence Kasden, writer for The Force Awakens, didn’t even appear to know who Plagueis is (though JJ Abrams, the director, does mention that Kasden was joking around). JJ also specifically says “no” to the fan theory. The only problem with this evidence is that the fan specifically asked if there would be mention of Plagueis or his staff. There may indeed be no mention of Plagueis in the film, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that Snoke is not a Muun, or that his identity will not be revealed in future films.

2. Pablo Hidalgo of the Lucasfilm Story Group

Pablo Hidalgo is a member of the Lucasfilm Story Group. If anyone knows who Snoke is and what happened to Plagueis, not to mention any future plans for these characters, it’s Pablo. He has made several comments on Twitter that suggest Snoke is not Plagueis. Check out the tweets below:

3. Dead Usually Means Dead

I’m a big fan of Occam’s’ Razor, which says that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. In this case, the simplest explanation is that Plagueis was dead when Palpatine said he was dead. Furthermore, the simplest explanation is that Snoke is a new character, because creators definitely want a fresh story with this film.

But to be fair, I’ve been wrong about the simplest answer before. When we saw the first trailer I assumed that the desert planet was Tatooine, because why have two planets that look exactly alike? While identical desert planets might appear in the Star Wars universe, it didn’t make much sense (to me) to have two identical planets confusing casual audiences. But I was wrong, and that desert planet was confirmed to be Jakku. I also thought that a new superweapon was unlikely, but I was wrong there as well.

Star Wars also isn’t a place where death is treated like a relative or temporary thing. Sure, some Jedi stick around as Force ghosts, but this isn’t superhero comics, where “dead” usually means “will show up again in a few months.” Alderaan is destroyed, and Yoda isn’t coming back to life.

3. The Evidence Appears Fake

Let’s face it, the image looks like a crude fan drawing. Despite what Collider is saying, it still hints of wishful thinking on the part of some fan artist. Also, when you compare the image to a past image of Plagueis (from a 2012 book), it looks like the new image was a crude hand-drawn copy of the first. You can see a comparison above. This doesn’t necessarily mean anything, but it casts doubt on the validity of this rumor.

So is Snoke Darth Plagueis? Thankfully, we won’t have to wait long to find out. The Force Awakens is out in just a few days, and we’ll all have the chance to see Supreme Leader Snoke for ourselves. If he’s a Muun, these Plagueis rumors will continue, but if not, we can safely assume that Snoke is a new character.

The Force Awakens opens in theaters next week on December 18th, 2015.

Also, check out this very quick Spoiler-Free review of The Force Awakens:

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My best theory is according to Tarkin, he may well be Darth Plagueis himself. Oddly enough it says in Tarkin, Plagueis succeeded several times to bring Darth Venamis back to life and reanimate his body. He even succeeded with his own body it states in Tarkin, though he curiously did not let Sidious know of his successes.

Also of course, it is confirmed in canon (not legends) the spirit of Plagueis guided an ancient sith cult known as the Apex Society which was ran by Collan Eislo. Eislo a long time friend of San Hill confirmed he did communicate with the deceased Sith Lord. As to his whereabouts now, those are…unknown. And it certainly seems he did see the future of Anakin going completely insane.

I like the theory that Darth Plagueis is Snoke and is waiting to to possess Klyo Ren’s body. This gives reason for Kylo being portray as weak and immature. Unlike Anakin, he’s not transforming into an evil version of himself, but instead is being displaced.

My Theory- Snoke is the Grand Inquisitor (or at least one of the brothers ) from Star Wars Rebels TV Series.

Having seen and analyzed The Force Awakens over 7 times in past 5 days, I’ve got a bone to pick with Darth Plagueis Theories. But also a tip of the hat.

This of course has spoilers from The Force Awakens. So if you haven’t seen The Force Awakens…”Move along, these aren’t the droids you’re looking for”…

Let’s get started

Why I’m not convinced it’s Plagueis

Sure we can say Darth Plagueis, but that’s really pushing it. Darth Sidious would have sensed his masters life force. Thats vague but…honestly…this is Darth Sidious were talking about. If Sith are being resurrected , wouldn’t that be what everyone is after. If Darth Plagueis was wise, he would not have taught Palpatine or anyone else everything about the living force.

Plagueis may just be a sith legend. Or maybe an analogy.(i.e. Darth Vader betrayed and killed Anakin Skywalker from Ben Kenobi telling Luke)
Now Palpatine is using it the same way to seduce Anakin.(Because that was Palpatines goal.)

Plagueis would also be to powerful and would not balance the force. (Some theory states that Luke and Plagueis would balance the force.)

Plagueis would not be using Kylo Ren as an apprentice. Kylo would be too weak and a huge gamble. Plagueis the WISE…He wouldn’t be wasting time on unstable puppets like Kylo Ren.

Plagueis canon so far only states that he is 7ft tall and slim. I’m tired of hearing he’s a Muun , Bith, Gungan, Boba Fett?…wait…what…oh come on…

One of the lead writers of Star Wars (Pablo Hidalgo of the Lucasfilm Story Group) even makes statements against theories that Snoke is Plagueis

(This ones a freebie. One theory stated that Plagueis was the one who conceived Anakin Skywalker! Ok…so Plagueis the Wise conceives a child and watches his lineage up to Luke and Leia and realizes he messed up “…cuz holy crap they’re trying to eliminate the First Order instead of helping it. Should’ve sensed that coming since I have ‘The Wise’ in my name”…should of used force protection. So now he’s hunting down Luke to eliminate him. Then there will be no Jedi left. So Episodes one through…what…nine meant nothing. Use protection people or you’ll eventually want to hunt down and eliminate your lineage)

Why he could be Plagueis

The best theory I can come up with is that Palpatine didn’t kill his master. He gravely injured him. And so he used his knowledge of the force to conceive Anakin as an apprentice to rival Plagueis should he return. Palpatine hid Anakin on Tatooine from the injured eyes of his master Plagueis. Who still weak from his surprise attack from Palpatine , decides to go into hiding. Palpatine waits years until negations with the trade federation go south and Obi Wan and Qui Gon stumble across young Ani on Tatooine. ( When his original plan was to find him later and train him himself after he had taken control of the senate) . But it still went down in Revenge of the Sith years later. You know the rest. But he tells Anakin of Darth Plagueis . About his power and gets Anakins attention. Skip ahead. Darth Vader is killin and Palpatine is chillin and Plagueis is waitin…Palpatine loses control. Plagueis returns. The First Order rises. The sith shall rule the Galaxy once more.

As much as I hate the Plagueis theory. I still have a small liking towards it. But now to my first theory.

The way I see it.

Snoke as the Grand Inquisitor would have a greater significance and be a nice nod to the Rebels TV series.

If you’ve watched the series (which is part of the new canon of Star Wars) you know that the Inquisitors where commanded to track down and kill any remaining Jedi. The Grand Inquisitor was commanded by Darth Vader to specifically track down a Jedi named Kanan and his apprentice Ezra ( the main protagonists). At the end of season 1 Kanan and the Inquisitor have a final duel. Long story short. The Inquisitor loses and is hanging off the edge of a bridge over a reactor core. Knowing that Vader would punish him for his failure to kill Kanan, The Inquisitor lets go and fails into the now exploding reactor and dies- or does he?

-The dark side is very strong with the Inquisitor, so the force could have protected him…somewhat.

-Snoke looks to have a form of a Pau’an being,(From Utapau), which is The Grand Inquisitors race as well.

-Snoke has severe scaring – Maybe from an explosion? But still has a Pau’an look to him.

-Snoke is 7ft tall according to Andy Serkis. And The Grand Inquisitor is approximately that height as well.

-Snoke as an Inquisitor makes more sense. Plagueis would have a different approach. Plagueis would be wiser in his choice of an apprentice rather than a gamble on Kylo Ren.

-The Inquisitors would most likely have a proposition toward having an alliance with the Knights of Ren. Where Snoke would only have a slight if not any trust in one person.

These are a few things.But there is more “evidence”.

1. The First Order has access to the Empiral Archives which General Hux references.(Talking to Snoke and Kylo Ren about the map to Skywalker. He states they have everything mapped from the archives except the missing piece that BB-8 has)

The Grand Inquisitor also had access to these files. And used them extensively to understand the Jedi he was hunting.That being said. Snoke, if he is the Inquisitor , has access to these files and knows how to use them. And has the great aptitude for finding and killing Jedi. The Grand Inquisitor used the archives to study a Jedis fighting form and used that knowledge to defeat them in battle.

2. The Knights of Ren where formed either shorty before or after the fall of the Jedi Academy mentioned in The Force Awakens. They seem to be followers of Darth Vaders ideology of peace when they have complete power. As long as the Jedi aren’t around. Much like the Inquisitors of before. Could Snoke be trying to carry out Vaders plan of killing off the Jedi? Though the Grand Inquisitor failed years ago, his service to Vaders ideology (and Palpatines) may still be intact.

3. The Inquisitors where apart of the Imperial Reign. There goal to wipe out the Jedi and bring peace to the galaxy. They have since then been wiped out and the New Republic has arisen after the fall of the Empire.

Snoke now has eliminated the New Republics capital and has the Knights of Ren under his wing. They are in a position to establish a New Order and have the opportunity to eliminate Luke Skywalker.

I personally think this has a nice ring to it. It wouldn’t be to far of a stretch like resurrecting Plagueis would be.After all it was “The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise. (Palpatine could have used this sith legend as a ploy to seduce Anakin). JJ Abrams also seemed to steer away from mentioning the prequels at all. (Aside from Ren’s statement of a clone army to Hux. Which was probably only used to silence the question of “Why aren’t all the troopers the same height and look like Jango Fett”.

I think it really puts a nice link in the chain for the new Star Wars canon. Star Wars Rebels was made for a reason. It may link both Rogue One and The New Trilogy. Which would be really nice to see for the devoted fans of the TV series.

But wait a second….

Put these both together

Plagueis controls a new line of Inquisitor(s). Snoke being one. Whom he resurrected after his fatal fall into the reactor in Rebels.Inquisitor Snoke has an apprentice , for Snoke this is Kylo Ren. Plagueis is playing his cards to establish a new order within the Galaxy.

Or -Plagueis returns to Snoke as a ghost. Which means he’s a new character possibly. And reveals his plan to Snoke.

Or – A sith holocron is involved here. Memories and visions of the past sith. And the plans they had.

Or – Maybe Snoke is a new character

All in all. We have to what 500+ days to finally find out (maybe). But these are my thoughts on the subject so far.

Ok I have an alternate theory to throw out there that starts with questions that I can’t stop thinking about:

What did Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker actually start?

If one puts all the destruction of the Jedi acts as being under the orders of the Emperor then Vader only executed orders, the Emperor started that? Could the one thing that Vader actually started was bringing balance to the force by killing the Emperor?

If Luke found out that Snoke was the ultimate Sith puppet master over the Emperor and thus Empire what would he do?

Two side notes:
1. I love the theory that Snoke is actually Darth Plagueis
2. If Vader brought the force into balance then there would be one Jedi and one Sith… Luke and Plageis)

Is it possible that Luke’s realized that the true weakness of the Sith is that they get seduced by power and individuals with powerful connections to the force, allowing those people to get close to them? From the movies, Anakin had at least two clear opportunities to end Palpatine and Vader could have stuck is master down anytime??

Lastly, what is the thing that Kylo Ren says must be done? In asking his grandfather to show him the power of the dark side is Kylo asking for the strength to continue a deception that he is evil in order to end Snoke? Kylo is clearly troubled (the pull to the light comment and all the destructive outbursts) … perhaps all the killing and ultimately the knowledge that if he is to get close to Snoke, he needs to go all the way… killing or should I say sacrificing those he loves. Snoke does say bring Kylo to him to complete his training… the opportunity and big reveal might be coming in VIII.

Well Anakin did the same in Jedi temple, basically kill a few to save many more. Anyway that’s an interesting theory about Kylo and I like it. But I hope and wish Snoke to be Plaguesis as that would make sense.

In the novel Plagious was disfigured in an assassination attempt. The description of the wounds match pretty well with Snoke. As well as being a member of a very long lived race which are well over to meters tall. Snoke was obviously distorted in the hologram but that doesn’t mean anything.

Well it seems obvious that Snoke would be some sort of sith as to follow the rule of two and Ren is very, very clearly an apprentice at best. It’s pretty easy for people to pretend not to know who a fairly obscure character is. That sheer amount of denial seems disproportionate for something, that if false, is a silly rumor. As for the dead is dead argument it is also pretty well known that of you don’t actually see it on screen you shouldn’t trust what characters say

Having seen the movie, whomever Snoke is, it looks like he’s had a lightsaber through the head. He is scarred badly. However, if his power was so great that the two halves of his head could be put back together and regenerate, that would be what it looked like. This theory is still plausible.

It’s still very vague and hard to speculate. All I can say is, I hope so. It would be a great twist if Palpatine had a master the whole time, pulling the strings from beyond the reaches of anyone. Perhaps Palpatine planned to use Luke to take him out once and for all? Again just speculation, which is fun to do but not to get your hopes pinned on.

I’d say the evidence for and against is quite thin, because there is still too much mystery surrounding his character. It is highly possible though, after all, he knows the secret to living forever.

One thing that could be fun to speculate. What if Snoke is the new embodiment of Palpatine? If they are taking scraps from the old Expanded Universe, then it is possible they could use the power where Sith force ghosts can (with a ritual) take control of a body. What if the body of Plagueis was preserved and Palpatine entered the body after death? It would explain why he (Snoke) looks like he is falling apart.

If you compare Snokes head and the burned Darth Vader mask Kylo talks to, it looks like Snokes head would fit in that mask perfectly. The right side of the Vader mask is damaged more the the left is, especally the eye and the area around his mouth. Snokes face is damaged at the exact same places.