Already made the decision - I have to do a lot of mental legwork thinking through all of the ramifications and how I'll deal with those. Once that's done, everything else falls into place. But I have to do that process 1st so I'm not second-guessing things.

Already made the decision - I have to do a lot of mental legwork thinking through all of the ramifications and how I'll deal with those. Once that's done, everything else falls into place. But I have to do that process 1st so I'm not second-guessing things.

The article is about how American males have been mentally casterated by, not females but by the whole system in the USA of don't resist, obey everything.

The contrast between males in the USA and in other countries that I have worked in is obvious. Here in Egypt, boys get in fights in school, life goes on. In the USA both sides are punished, often with criminal charges.

I'm a big fan of "manly men" in all of their various forms, but I can still see Zanna's point.

It's a little disheartening to read posts saying (in a nutshell) that the worst thing that could happen to the human race would be for it to become more like the women members. If you would say the same thing about it turning too masculine, I might understand a little better. I think we all have our roles, and a glut of either testosterone or estrogen makes for an imbalance.

Originally Posted by Zanna

Thanks, RitaRose. That's what I meant but didn't articulate well. The men I am talking about have nothing in common with women or femininity - they are men, but men who lack the drive to take care of themselves physically or to be self-sufficient. I swear, self-sufficiency and caring about how you treat your body are the sexiest things to me these days. The self-sufficient types tend to have the manly thing I like going on.

The difference is that men run the economy. They have since the dawn of civilization, and they created civilization itself! We're more logical and physically stronger on average. Even in an age where more women get degrees than men, men still dominate the actually productive fields, the STEM fields.

A feminized society becomes a bunch of people satisfied with doing just enough to get by. A bunch of people that will submit to bad people with a great deal of power (ie terrorists, pillaging thieves, totalitarian rulers). A bunch of people that also become a 'bonobo masturbation society' because, once women no longer need a man to provide for them, they look for men that give good sex and occasional conversation. Women seek hypergamy as they never finds a satisfying masculine partner.

A masculinized society becomes a bunch of people with great drive to succeed. Innovation. They don't take crap from anybody. The men may often seek women because of her sexual attraction, but couples stay together.

Can we draw any more parallels here? Masculinized=America of yore, Feminized=America of today?

Without manly men, we would be in straw huts right now. Without computers. Without running water. Without even a food surplus stored. We would be hunting and foraging for food and having sex whenever enough food was found that the people felt fertile and frisky enough.