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Systemd-Free Debian "Devuan" Planning Their First Developer Gathering This Spring

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services which are that important are clustered anything and so there is nothing like "maintenance downtime equals large sums of lost money" or it's not enterprise at all

the point is that all this people which think uptime is a penis enlargement most of he time apply security updates but the services are still vulnerable because they have loaded the old library versions and hence they are idiots, when you have services which don't allow any downtime you have some sort of live-migration and hence there is no downtime because of a kernel update and a reboot

Are you seriously claiming that clusters cover the whole enterprise use case?

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Are you seriously claiming that clusters cover the whole enterprise use case?

call it cluster or whatever, when you have a service which must not be down for 5 seconds you need to take care that it don't happen and when something goes down provide HA with whatever implementation, after that you can reboot every node whenever you want without service outage for the rest of the world

if you dont have proper HA and your service is that important that it needs it you have a design problem where your kernel updte and reboot is the smallest issue at all

you sound really clueless while trying to appear like a professional sysadmin which you aren't

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call it cluster or whatever, when you have a service which must not be down for 5 seconds you need to take care that it don't happen and when something goes down provide HA with whatever implementation, after that you can reboot every node whenever you want without service outage for the rest of the world
if you dont have proper HA and your service is that important that it needs it you have a design problem where your kernel updte and reboot is the smallest issue at all
you sound really clueless while trying to appear like a professional sysadmin which you aren't

Feel free to go personal if you like, I am fairly immune and will be taking your text far less seriously because personal insults, implying idiocy etc look unprofessional and create impression of either raving kid or religious fanatic.

Anyway, you keep talking only about cluster-based computers. Military, IT and economic infrastructure have plenty of vertically scaling systems, where your talked approach simply does not work. Why? Because workflows requiring concurrent processing. Delays between cluster nodes are at best measurable in microseconds. Delays on a shared memory bus are measurable in nanoseconds. You should know the difference between microsecond and nanosecond. Ton of tasks exist requiring real-time processing where sluggish clusters simply won't cut it.

Systems may have anywhere from many hundreds to many millions users connected to it and reboot might simply be not an option. These systems may be forced to run Solaris because that one has had the feature for a long time. Quite a few such systems lineups support officially Linux though (for example IBM z mainframes). Latter is an extreme example but it could as easily be 8-socket or 16-socket x86_64 server instead filling the role in some government critical infrastructure unit. Either way, when you have a server you mentally categorize as "I have to be cornered like a rat before I consider rebooting it" live patching matters very much. Quite opposite from your view point.

Systems may have anywhere from many hundreds to many millions users connected to it and reboot might simply be not an option

in the modern world you hot-migrate the whole container with all it's conncted users to a different node to free the one which needs maintainance. but what do people like you know about modern IT when everything after the 1970's is straight from the devil :-)

to learn something - when i make mistakes i document them and so i never make the same bullshit twice

And why should I give a shit about the EXACT output when I know how to band-aid fix it which is what's important to me? (a temporary VM I don't give a shit of as long as I get to use it for what I temporarily needed)

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And why should I give a shit about the EXACT output when I know how to band-aid fix it which is what's important to me? (a temporary VM I don't give a shit of as long as I get to use it for what I temporarily needed)

because otherwise when you make a fuss based on your typical argumentations for EVERY topic the logical conclusion for everyone is that you did shit?

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because otherwise when you make a fuss based on your typical argumentations for EVERY topic the logical conclusion for everyone is that you did shit?

No the logical conclusion is that, if I actually prove this with a log (which you'll claim I made up so the only way to prove it is to do it yourself as I've already mentioned 10 times by now)... then my word will become law until proven wrong, but it won't because you will always waste my time no matter what.

i.e. if I'm right 100 times I'm likely to be right 101th time unless proven wrong (hypothetical example).

Here's what I think happened: after linking systemd-libs to arokh, he realized he's full of shit but tried to prove me wrong desperately by following my steps, and actually got that bug as well now, so now he's silent because he knows he fucked up. You didn't yet but you can get there.

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No the logical conclusion is that, if I actually prove this with a log (which you'll claim I made up so the only way to prove it is to do it yourself as I've already mentioned 10 times by now)...

i don't have to prove anything given that everybody knows it was you fucking too stupid to operate a package management and realize what you must not do and where the problem comes from and report it there - it's that simple - if you can't handle dependecy problems proper without destroy your system you are an clueless idiot seeking to blame somebody else for your own stupidity