*to Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Κυνόσαργες

Thursday, 26 July 2012

Canadians mealy-mouthed?

No, because more often they are straightforward hypocrites.

There have been a string of drug/gang-related shootings in Toronto, and those gangs are primarily Caribbean, and most often Jamaican, but YOU MUST NOT VOICE THE LAST TWO ITEMS in Canada. Except I did, on Facebook.

I thought I was fair about it. I made sure to point out that most Jamaicans in Toronto, and even most I have met in person, have not committed crimes, have criminal-records or connections. I even quoted this:

Studies across North America now are demonstrating that immigrant communities actually have lower levels of criminality and lower levels of gang membership than people born in North America.

- Scot Wortley, a University of Toronto criminologist and gang expert

But in Canada, if you mention race, neutrally or positively too, YOU MUST BE RACIST! So, my Facebook 'friend' got up a big wind of liberal self-satisfaction, and got close to using the r-word on me, but did not have the guts, of course. To which I replied:

Crime
rates are not consistent in all communities, however 'community' gets
defined. I think it is irresponsible not to address it; just as it is
irresponsible to address it in the way it too often is: 'all x people
are...' You know as well as I do that
many people hold the latter view. Avoiding the topic entirely in the
misguided, and cowardly, 'politically-correct' way, in no way stops
people talking among themselves to paint an entire group with the same brush,
so avoidance achieves nothing positive. Don't have the study to hand,
but there was an interesting one on the fear response to images of
different people: every group, including black men, had the highest fear
response to images of black men. That is a problem. It's not from
experience I would wager, but from media images. Anyone but Morgan
Freeman get casted as a self-controlled and cerebral character?

According to him, I am the "only one who brought race into the discussion", which to a liberal Canadian counts as racism, and only because they don't want to deal with their own racism: I've blocked him from Facebook as too stupid. I have no fear of an honest discussion of race and racism, because when you use good science, you find out that races differ more internally than externally, which is a longer way to say that 'race' doesn't exist in a biological sense: it is a social construct. Now since it is a social construct, and these kids shooting each other come from one community, maybe we should be addressing the causes in that subset of that group of people. No? Guess we'll just have to let more brown children get shot, because you and our media won't get as worked up as you do about the fair-skinned ones. I think their lives are equal, but I'm the racist, not you who doesn't think so... This is confusing.

Oh, and they've just decided to dramatically ramp-up gun searches and security at this summer's Toronto 'Caribbana', but nobody will admit it has to do with the Scarborough shooting, or the fact there's been a shooting at at 'Caribbana' most every year. No, if you give reasons for a dramatic change in policy, you'd be racist, even if you are of the same race... More confused.

I am not afraid of the process in any honest discussion on race, because I am honest enough to know how much or little racist I am, that such would be my flaws, and when I should discipline my reactions to people. I guess I am not as afraid as the other guy of confronting my demons... Then again, I am not an Asian-Canadian who made sure to marry white (which his parents could accept), not black or brown, and live on the 'right side' of Roncesvalles where the 'good schools' are, without the social housing and the other kind of people.

The problem with mixed income neighbourhoods are the
schools. Most middle class people (and I would reluctantly admit to put
myself in this category) don’t want their kids going to school with poor
kids. The area around the Danzig shooting includes TCHC buildings
surrounded by large detached homes. This is, ostensibly, a mixed income
layout. But the housing prices for the large homes are significantly
lowered by the presence of the TCHC. I often drive by areas like this
and briefly consider buying a very large detached house with a two car
garage a big back yard for the price of my old Toronto shack. Then I
envision the types of kids my own kids would be going to school with and
the big house dream is crushed.

WCanate, if it’s a “mixed income” neighbourhood then
wouldn’t the children at the schools also be mixed income, rather than
all poor? Wouldn’t it be ideal to expose your kids to others from all
different financial levels? Anyway, poverty is always relative.
Perhaps the other parents at whatever swanky “middle class” school your
children currently attend view *you* as the poor ones and they’re just
waiting for an opportunity to whisk their kids away from the bad
influence yours provide.

I’ve never read anything more (what’s the word) class-ist,
that borders on outright racism. Your comments feel so out of touch.
What is wrong with poor children? Can you please give me a reason? When
did it become fair to automatically assume that people in worse economic
situations are bad or are bad influences on middle class children?
White flight happened in the 50s and I would have assumed that we have
moved beyond that as a growing and caring society…you have seriously
changed my opinion.
I really hope your feelings do not get transferred to your children. It would be a bad world if they do…

Yes, please stay exactly where you are. It’s your *type*
that is detrimental to neighbourhoods, not poor people or their
children.
It’s important to hear from people like you actually, one is reminded
of the unbelievable ignorance and discrimination that residents of TCH
has to deal with.
I am with Outraged’s comment – I hope you don’t talk this shit around your children, or any young people for that matter.

I’d be surprised if any of the posters disagreeing with
WCanate have children of their own. The unfortunate reality is that a
disproportionately large number of “poor kids” in these kinds of areas
come from single parent families, where having a “dad” is a foreign
concept and where mom isn’t that much better. Kids notice things, far
more than most adults realize, and where you raise them has almost as
much influence over them as how you raise them.

You can be sure that there are better and also (if that’s
the measure) richer people than you are. Certainly there are smarter,
better, and more deserving children in the TCHC neighbourhood than your
children. Apparently you didn’t receive a very broad view of people when
you were growing up and you are passing on the limited perspective and
limiting views to your poor children. Of course you can choose to send
your children to whatever school suits you, but while they are learning
at their select school, you are stuck in your narrow rut wherever you
are.

Just to further state to the comment above, show me the
evidence where TCHC buildings are a direct cause of reduced property
values. There is a TCHC apartment building at Yonge and Belmont (in
Yorkville) and I’m sure the property values there are sky-high. There is
an excellent proposal for a TCHC building in the West Don Lands, right
next to a BILD award winning, LEED Gold certified Condo (River CIty),
also right next to the proposed PAN-AM games athletes village. If only
we were smart enough not to allow those “poor kids” from TCHC buildings
to mix in with us normal, middle class folk (to be read with sarcasm). I
think segregation is an absolutely horrifying concept and you should be
completely ashamed of yourself for stating your views as facts.
People with lower incomes deserve equal opportunities and respect
just like anyone else. Thats why the Priority Neighbourhoods program is
so important, becuase unlike ignoring lower income or mixed-income
neighbourhoods like WCanate wants to do, it is ensuring the proper level
of services and money is provided to assist these areas where
assistance is required…and yes that includes transit and better schools.

I didn’t intend my comment to be taken as a classist
attack, and I’d agree it sounded harsher than I intended. But as you
thumb down my comment from the cafes of Ossington & Dundas, it is
clear many replys to my comment come from childless people. Everyone
wants their kids to have the best experience possible, and avoiding
living in bad neighbourhoods is part of that. If mixed income works, and
middle class families embrace it, then more power to them, but I really
don’t see that happening.

We’re in 2012 – are people seriously still shitting on single-mothers?
Agree with P – Lots of code words being used so people don’t have to
come out and say they don’t want to live near poor people of colour
and/or people who don’t look like The Cunninghams. Is having no father
around ideal? Nope, but there are wider support systems that exist and
people who step up to help each other.
It should be noted that given what is happening in places like Somalia
and Afghanistan, there are more and more people living in TCH whose
splintered families are due to war and its ravages.
I don’t sit in cafes – I live and work in the very communities people
judge and demonize, but actually know very little about. So who should
be mocked for typing away from the comfort of their comfy middle-class
bubble where their fears and misconceptions can’t be challenged or their
minds and experiences broadened?
All the same, everyone will do better without you bringing your baggage and prejudices around here.

WCanate, you made the mistake of being honest in Canada.
They’d rather scream at you about it than look at ‘the log in their own
eye’. Everything you’ve stated is a fact born out by real estate
prices. Also born out by my experience as a teacher in schools poor,
wealthy and middling. Also born out by the young families I saw selling
their condos in St. Lawrence when their kid turned three, lest their
kids had to go to ‘Market Lane’. Everyone knows you are right, but if
they talked about it they might feel compelled to do something. No,
easier to point out “the spec in someone else’s eye.”

When I was a kid I remember going on field trips a lot, but
your parents had to pay for them. Only $20 – $30, and not more than
once a month, but they were a lot of fun and taught you stuff you could
only learn by leaving the classroom. Unfortunately in poorer schools
these would not be an option, so I can see why you would want your kids
in a school where everyone has about the same income level and you can
give your kids the best.
To everyone saying this is extremely classist, you obviously don’t
have kids or anyone in your life that you care about more than yourself.
Areas like this have high crime and are often dangerous (there was just
a shooting at a large bbq!) so you can’t call someone classist because
they want their kids in a safe neighbourhood. I don’t have kids, but I
do have a family and they are more important to me than myself and
others, and they are certainly more important to me than how I am
perceived by others. When poorer high schools (and even elementary
schools) have gangs, stabbings, and shootings how can you insult someone
else for not wanting their kids in a place like that?
When I hear about mixed-income neighbourhoods and how they’ll
magically fix deep rooted social problems all I actually hear is a bunch
of sanctimonious upper middle-class people saying that they can be such
good influences that they can “fix” what’s wrong with poorer people
just by living near them. Seriously? The problem poor people have is
they don’t have enough money. You want to help them, then raise minimum
wage and pay more for things.

Had to add a thread of Canadian "self defence mechanism" that I put my two cents into, just recently. Chris, I won't pretend to have a perfect attitude to race or sexuality, but I don't think any of us have. Of course, there are damn few of us who can bear self-awareness. The humans are faking it almost all of the time: open-mindedness, competence at work, as a parent...

Kamo, its a hard thing having no hope for the humans as a parent. At least suicide is not tempting, having a purpose to raise a child and all that. I swear the only thing that stopped me before was spite: not letting the hateful bastards beat me. I do have hope for my kids, and the other 10% worth any time.

Wunsuponatime a evil developer wanted to build a bunch of apartments in a neighborhood near a number of city council members of a very small town. Everyone cringed so much that a somewhat creative columnist decided to write a satire piece that took place inside a rented limo. Basically, a number of council members were asking Guido the Killer Pimp to 'get rid' of all those poor people. The blessed council members were more than willing to pay whatever they had. In the end, Guido offed everyone in the car, except for the driver - who he tipped. Guido figured he'd done the town a favor.

"The problem poor people have is they don’t have enough money." Or they just haven't figured out how to amass the same magnitude of debt...

Personally... would much rather deal with problems up-front. Rich kids can beat people, steal stuff, and hit a vein just as good as the next junkie... they just tend to be a bit more discreet about it.