Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

Originally Posted by ARM

It's all about expectations. A 4-2 record is fine if you're shooting for respectability. If the goal is to get into the NCAAs, 4-2 comes up a little short, unless you've played teams more of the caliber that UW and UMD have played. Minnesota is 5-1, and that is more hindrance than help. OSU has played a better schedule than Minnesota, but the loss to Mercyhurst hurts that comparison.

I'd be fine with OSU finishing higher in the WCHA; what I want is to finish higher in the PairWise. I don't think that the WCHA will get two at-large teams into the tournament this year.

A sweep means you took all of the points. The Buckeyes won the series in Minneapolis but did not sweep. While you may be ahead of schedule, OSU has an opportunity this season that it may not have next year. I realize that your outlook is to always see the positive, but I think that your coach realizes that the future is now.

Totally agree that the loss to Mercyhurst hurt, and honestly, we should have won the one over at Robert Morris, too. We were leading that game, then allowed RMU to tie it, then handed them a 5-on-3 in OT, which allowed them to win it. We should only have the two losses to #1 Wisconsin, really, but this is what happens with a program who is suddenly the "hunted" and "hasn't been there before." I would love to see our program morph into Minnesota or Wisconsin overnight but unfortunately, it's not that simple.

As for the second point, you are correct on that, and believe me, I am out here checking the PairWise every Saturday night. You're probably correct that the WCHA will not get two at-large teams in. If this team continues to improve and learns its lessons about finishing games the right way, I like our chances in the second half.

As for the last point, yes, technically you are right, it wasn't a sweep, but I will take five of the six points at Ridder Arena any day of the week. I understand your point about next year, but we will only lose four seniors, so I don't think our opportunities are going to disappear altogether. I do realize that Minnesota, Wisconsin, and UMD will have Olympians back, so I understand your point, but as long as Nadine continues to bring in recruiting classes like the freshmen we have this season, we're not going away anytime soon. I get what you are saying though about the future being now, and I am sure that is in the back of Coach Nadine's mind.

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

I'm going to live up to my name here, though I'll start out by saying that OSU has definitely been a pleasant surprise to anyone who didn't grow up in Ann Arbor. Not only have they won more this year, the future looks bright, as they return 9 of their top 10 scorers next year. So, while ARM may be right that next year might be tough given the players returning to other WCHA schools, it's heading in the right direction.

That said, I think they may have peaked for this year. It isn't just that they've gone 3-2-3 in their last 8 against a mostly bad set of opponents, RMU aside. It's also that they've significantly outplayed their goal differential to date, which is a better predictor of future winning percentage than actual winning percentage is. They probably aren't as good as they've looked so far, though that's still better than we all expected them to be.

The Minnesota series in mid-January looms huge for both teams, and I'm glad I'm going to be there.

I'm going to live up to my name here, though I'll start out by saying that OSU has definitely been a pleasant surprise to anyone who didn't grow up in Ann Arbor. Not only have they won more this year, the future looks bright, as they return 9 of their top 10 scorers next year. So, while ARM may be right that next year might be tough given the players returning to other WCHA schools, it's heading in the right direction.

That said, I think they may have peaked for this year. It isn't just that they've gone 3-2-3 in their last 8 against a mostly bad set of opponents, RMU aside. It's also that they've significantly outplayed their goal differential to date, which is a better predictor of future winning percentage than actual winning percentage is. They probably aren't as good as they've looked so far, though that's still better than we all expected them to be.

The Minnesota series in mid-January looms huge for both teams, and I'm glad I'm going to be there.

The team is in a downward spiral. Although results at the break are a dramatic improvement, the Buckeyes now look like a 500 team. The team seems to have had more jump and cohesiveness earlier in the season. The first month during the second half will tell the tale. Nice to see that they are part of the discussion however short lived that may be.

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

Originally Posted by Puckdrop14

The team seems to have had more jump and cohesiveness earlier in the season.

They did have to play six road series in 2017, and most trips for OSU are fairly long (unlike the Boston teams who are exhausted after a bus ride to Orono .) In 2018, they only have two road trips on their schedule, so perhaps the jump will return after the break.

"... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

Originally Posted by Puckdrop14

The team is in a downward spiral. Although results at the break are a dramatic improvement, the Buckeyes now look like a 500 team. The team seems to have had more jump and cohesiveness earlier in the season. The first month during the second half will tell the tale. Nice to see that they are part of the discussion however short lived that may be.

I can't believe this is me saying this (eeyore & I have a contest to see who can be the gloomiest) but you are being too negative. Think of all that OSU has been through in the last few years, I'm sure they have lost recruits over it. Then there are the institutional deficits compared to MN & WI. The team has gotten a whole lot better a whole lot faster than anyone can reasonably expect. Between UMD and OSU I think the Buckeyes are more of a concern for the next few years at least. It really is becoming at least a 4 team race and OSU is going to be in the thick of it.

I can't believe this is me saying this (eeyore & I have a contest to see who can be the gloomiest) but you are being too negative. Think of all that OSU has been through in the last few years, I'm sure they have lost recruits over it. Then there are the institutional deficits compared to MN & WI. The team has gotten a whole lot better a whole lot faster than anyone can reasonably expect. Between UMD and OSU I think the Buckeyes are more of a concern for the next few years at least. It really is becoming at least a 4 team race and OSU is going to be in the thick of it.

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

Originally Posted by Eeyore

I'm going to live up to my name here, though I'll start out by saying that OSU has definitely been a pleasant surprise to anyone who didn't grow up in Ann Arbor. Not only have they won more this year, the future looks bright, as they return 9 of their top 10 scorers next year. So, while ARM may be right that next year might be tough given the players returning to other WCHA schools, it's heading in the right direction.

That said, I think they may have peaked for this year. It isn't just that they've gone 3-2-3 in their last 8 against a mostly bad set of opponents, RMU aside. It's also that they've significantly outplayed their goal differential to date, which is a better predictor of future winning percentage than actual winning percentage is. They probably aren't as good as they've looked so far, though that's still better than we all expected them to be.

The Minnesota series in mid-January looms huge for both teams, and I'm glad I'm going to be there.

I don't think Sauve has played as well as she did before being injured and this has impacted the results. I would think with time off over the break she will be back to 100 %, and is a real difference maker when at the top of her game.

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

Originally Posted by ARM

It's all about expectations. A 4-2 record is fine if you're shooting for respectability. If the goal is to get into the NCAAs, 4-2 comes up a little short, unless you've played teams more of the caliber that UW and UMD have played. Minnesota is 5-1, and that is more hindrance than help. OSU has played a better schedule than Minnesota, but the loss to Mercyhurst hurts that comparison.

No one wants to blow a lead in the last 10 minutes; especially to a team they're "supposed" to beat. So no argument there.

But I feel the need to mention that, back in the day, one measuring stick for a successful season was sweep at home, split on the road. By that standard, the current 4-2 record is on schedule. Admittedly the Buckeyes do need to win all four of the remaining non-conference games, all at home, to stay on schedule.

I get that the top teams in Women's D-1 have set the bar higher in most seasons. But the entire concept of needing to win at least 90% of your games, or feel shame of biblical proportions? Just not on board with it. I'm sure my view is hopelessly old school, but I'd rather just relish each game as thing unto itself. I'll certainly do some scoreboard watching, and fret over everyone else's schedule, during the stretch run. But in December? Not so much.

I'd be fine with OSU finishing higher in the WCHA; what I want is to finish higher in the PairWise. I don't think that the WCHA will get two at-large teams into the tournament this year.

Very valid concern. And yet, I differ from both you and '86 in one respect. I'm don't recall looking at the Pairwise yet this year, and likely won't until Feb. 1st or so. For me, the early season numbers are just too volatile to get excited about from one week until the next. And even come February I'll probably just count on you and the other close observers to tell me what the numbers mean, rather than running any calculations myself. BTW, I am sincerely grateful for your efforts in that regard.

A sweep means you took all of the points. The Buckeyes won the series in Minneapolis but did not sweep.

You're correct. Please stop there!

While you may be ahead of schedule, OSU has an opportunity this season that it may not have next year. I realize that your outlook is to always see the positive, but I think that your coach realizes that the future is now.

Particularly with all of the home games in the second half, yes. The Buckeyes need to do everything within their power to take advantage of this year's opportunity.

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

Originally Posted by pgb-ohio

But the entire concept of needing to win at least 90% of your games, or feel shame of biblical proportions? Just not on board with it.

I admit to missing the thread where this was mandated and adopted. Anyway, there is some space between 90% and 67%, and it is near the bottom of that range where bubbles often burst. If a team comes up short, shame? No. Dejection? Anyone who doesn't feel some sense of loss doesn't want it bad enough.

"... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

Originally Posted by ARM

I admit to missing the thread where this was mandated and adopted. Anyway, there is some space between 90% and 67%, and it is near the bottom of that range where bubbles often burst. If a team comes up short, shame? No. Dejection? Anyone who doesn't feel some sense of loss doesn't want it bad enough.

Exaggerating to make the point.

Quick explanation: I'm a fan of Buckeye Football. The commitment of the fan base is admirable. But dark underside is that if you have a 9-3 Regular Season, "fans" are calling for the coach's head. I just don't want to see Women's Hockey go that route. Not wanting it bad enough? OK, that can be a problem. But wanting it too badly can spoil the whole enterprise.

For the most part, fans on the Women's Hockey Board are much classier than the fans I'm decrying. But when one of the programs that hasn't won national titles makes a move in the right direction, respect is often still withheld. It's a widespread undercurrent and it does deserve some pushback.

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

Originally Posted by BigFan

I don't think Sauve has played as well as she did before being injured and this has impacted the results. I would think with time off over the break she will be back to 100 %, and is a real difference maker when at the top of her game.

Bang. Major issue. Sauve is #1 reason the team is doing well and the team goes as she goes. Question: Is Ohio State the only program in the NCAA that does not have a goalie coach???? The goalie coach (along with all assistant coaches) quick in the summer. They brought back the goalie coach from two years ago but the coach removed (fired?) him in the fall. Makes no sense. I would think Ohio State would have the funds and backing to run a proper program. The only constant in the last 2 years is the head coach. All other coaches have quit or been released. Bit of a red flag.

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

Originally Posted by dd17

Bang. Major issue. Sauve is #1 reason the team is doing well and the team goes as she goes. Question: Is Ohio State the only program in the NCAA that does not have a goalie coach???? The goalie coach (along with all assistant coaches) quick in the summer. They brought back the goalie coach from two years ago but the coach removed (fired?) him in the fall. Makes no sense. I would think Ohio State would have the funds and backing to run a proper program. The only constant in the last 2 years is the head coach. All other coaches have quit or been released. Bit of a red flag.

hired when she was, I would think that just about anybody that applied for the job last year, got it
the two current assistant coaches are a step up, for sure

Elander has an impressive coaching resume and likely a good recruiter of European talent
while young and inexperienced as a coach, McMillen is somebody the players can relate to, likely a good recruiting tool for MN athletes, and if any of the players need a demo of how it is supposed to be done ...

Last edited by pokechecker; 12-19-2017 at 10:18 AM.

Israel depends on a wall for their security, and it is doing the job. Democrazies need to explain why one wouldn't work for the USA. Baring that, build a wall Mr. Trump, so big the Chineeze have to rename theirs.

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

How this program is where it is, is a testament to the players, especially the three Seniors and Sauve who is also in her fourth year. 3 head coaches, 7 assistant coaches, 2 strength coaches, 3 trainers, 3 team operations heads and 4 other support staff have turned over. Not to mention the countless team mates that have left in the four years they have been there. The only constant for this group has been the Equipment manager Jim Deans who cares for the players and bleeds scarlet and gray (who is an employee of the school and not the team, one can only imagine how many equipment personnel would have had the same fate). The four above women are the only players on the team who played for the coach that recruited them to OSU, except of course the 2 new transfers.
Hats off to the players who have put together the best half season in program history. Maybe they go the way of Colgate last year, but the fact they are where they are says something to the character of the players on this team.

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

Originally Posted by ne7minder

I can't believe this is me saying this (eeyore & I have a contest to see who can be the gloomiest) but you are being too negative. Think of all that OSU has been through in the last few years, I'm sure they have lost recruits over it. Then there are the institutional deficits compared to MN & WI. The team has gotten a whole lot better a whole lot faster than anyone can reasonably expect. Between UMD and OSU I think the Buckeyes are more of a concern for the next few years at least. It really is becoming at least a 4 team race and OSU is going to be in the thick of it.

Totally agree. Now, if we come out of the break and get swept by Penn State and RMU, then I might agree that we are on a downward spiral, but to say it now at the break with the team having a 12-4-4 record, I agree, it's a little over the top.

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

Originally Posted by BigFan

I don't think Sauve has played as well as she did before being injured and this has impacted the results. I would think with time off over the break she will be back to 100 %, and is a real difference maker when at the top of her game.

BINGO!! Kass was injured in the Wisconsin series and has not been 100% lately. I think the break will do her good.

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

Originally Posted by pgb-ohio

Exaggerating to make the point.

Quick explanation: I'm a fan of Buckeye Football. The commitment of the fan base is admirable. But dark underside is that if you have a 9-3 Regular Season, "fans" are calling for the coach's head. I just don't want to see Women's Hockey go that route. Not wanting it bad enough? OK, that can be a problem. But wanting it too badly can spoil the whole enterprise.

For the most part, fans on the Women's Hockey Board are much classier than the fans I'm decrying. But when one of the programs that hasn't won national titles makes a move in the right direction, respect is often still withheld. It's a widespread undercurrent and it does deserve some pushback.

This is exactly why I don't get on here and rip on our coaches or our kids. I'll be honest, I do not have the same expectations for Ohio State Women's Hockey that I do for Ohio State Football, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. This program has had three different coaches in the last four seasons and only won ten games two seasons ago, so for me to get on here and ***** about a 12-4-4 record or denigrate the coaches and kids if they don't win a natty this season would be a tad unfair, IMHO. As an avid OSU Football fan, I totally understand the whole 'National Title or bust' mentality, and I'll 'fess up, I tend to agree with that most years, although I am not one of the lunatics that was calling for Urban Meyer to be fired after the Iowa loss. My point is, yes, I have expectations for our women's hockey program, I just haven't reached the 'National Title or bust' level with them yet.

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

Originally Posted by dd17

Bang. Major issue. Sauve is #1 reason the team is doing well and the team goes as she goes. Question: Is Ohio State the only program in the NCAA that does not have a goalie coach???? The goalie coach (along with all assistant coaches) quick in the summer. They brought back the goalie coach from two years ago but the coach removed (fired?) him in the fall. Makes no sense. I would think Ohio State would have the funds and backing to run a proper program. The only constant in the last 2 years is the head coach. All other coaches have quit or been released. Bit of a red flag.

Not so sure this is really a red flag situation. Karel Popper followed his girlfriend, Noora Raty, over to China where she is playing for the CWHL team over there. Jessica Koizumi went to University of Vermont to be the associate head coach there, perhaps a lateral move, although I am 100% sure Vermont makes more of a commitment to the sport of ice hockey than Ohio State does (don't get me started on that, trust me), so it was probably a move up. I thing Coach Nadine did a great job with their replacements, Milica McMillen and Peter Elander, but I do agree that we need a goalie coach. I heard over the weekend that we had one, but there was an issue getting the paperwork through. And yes, I do ask the same question you did about us being the only program in the country who doesn't have a goalie coach!!! It makes what Kassidy Sauve is accomplishing that much more impressive, considering she hasn't had a coach this season.

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

Originally Posted by EPIC97

How this program is where it is, is a testament to the players, especially the three Seniors and Sauve who is also in her fourth year. 3 head coaches, 7 assistant coaches, 2 strength coaches, 3 trainers, 3 team operations heads and 4 other support staff have turned over. Not to mention the countless team mates that have left in the four years they have been there. The only constant for this group has been the Equipment manager Jim Deans who cares for the players and bleeds scarlet and gray (who is an employee of the school and not the team, one can only imagine how many equipment personnel would have had the same fate). The four above women are the only players on the team who played for the coach that recruited them to OSU, except of course the 2 new transfers.
Hats off to the players who have put together the best half season in program history. Maybe they go the way of Colgate last year, but the fact they are where they are says something to the character of the players on this team.

EPIC97, totally agree with this post. It's why I respect and admire these girls so much, especially the seniors and Kassidy, who have stayed here to help build this program through three coaching changes in their four years. I am really happy for them that they are having the season they are having after what they have been through.

EPIC97, totally agree with this post. It's why I respect and admire these girls so much, especially the seniors and Kassidy, who have stayed here to help build this program through three coaching changes in their four years. I am really happy for them that they are having the season they are having after what they have been through.

Good post. The main thing is there is a lot of positive talk on this forum since Nadine got the job, which is a very nice and welcome change compared to when the two morons that preceded her were in charge.

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2017-2018 ... Home Playoffs This Season?

But when one of the programs that hasn't won national titles makes a move in the right direction, respect is often still withheld.

Hey, I give those teams respect in the polls -- do I have to give them love here too?

I think that the jury is still out as far as just how big a step forward the Buckeyes have taken this year. I've only watched them for two games, and outside of the five-minute overtime when they dominated, improved success over past years was as much about better puck luck as anything else. Maybe it can be chalked up to attitude and belief.

Teams like Bemidji and Duluth have improved a lot from the start of the year. Neither has the goaltending they did last year, but both are still capable of knocking off anyone they play. I imagine that the Buckeyes will be considerably better next season, but if the other six teams improve as well, then that improvement might not be reflected in the standings.

"... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling