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What exactly makes todays way of living great? The earth is polluted, people dont give a damn abt eachother, only themselves. The family structure is broken down, becauce of technology, we dont talk anymore, we text, further creating a social barrier beween ourselves. Wake up dude, we are one bad UN meeting away from ww3, the economy worldwide is stuggling, we still have aids. All these scientists out trying to disprove God, spend resource after resource on a missing link they wont find, while cancer amd aids run ramped. Man so smart, thy outsmart themselves.

Life itself is good. But the distractions of the devil, money, power, prestige, drugs, immorality, these are the things that are "good" in this world to people. The very same things that we have in abundance, kill us. Do u have hope for future generations? Real hope? Oh, I know. Once the world gets fully educated about atheistic viewpoints, we'll all be peaceful. Let me us a worldy term on how I feel about that... GTFOH!

People will be people. Athiest, religious, dumb deaf and blind. The world is the pits, even with all ir majestic scientific advances and pipe dreams. Its not getting better.

Why cant man make us live forever? Why cant their be peace? When is science going to alleveiate all forms of sickness? When will there be nomore blind? Deaf? Lame? Why even have a monetary system? Thats division. C'mon bright guy, gimme some answers. U claim u can pinpoint when the sun wilk blow up, u know we are half brothers with monkeys. When will science fix some REAL ISH?

meanwhile the mythical God Jehovah has already brought milliins of people together from all over the globe in TRUE PEACE! Wow! Something that does not exist has done something that the smartest beings in existence, human beings, have not been able to do in hundreds of thousands of years according to the science fiction in our public and private school books.

When the end comes, and very soon, you will absolutely remember these conversations, you will remeber Jehovah bringing all nations together in true worship and peace in a volitile world. You will remember Jesus words in mat 24:3-14 and you will remember 1914 and that the preaching work had to be done worldwide before the end came, and you will remember that the Watchtower, which says on each cover "announcing Jehovahs Kingdom", is the worlds.. THE ENTIRE INHABITED EARTHS, most read magazine. You will remember you scoffed at these prophecies, even though they smacked u in ur face hard.

Once again, I will repeat myself. I have never claimed any of those things. You are putting words in my mouth. This rant is filled with sarcasm and childish remarks.

I am just proving your claims false and holding you to a level of accountability, which has become obvious that you are not accustomed too, evidenced by your childish and immature response. When backed in a corner you respond immaturely.

You claimed current times are the worst in human history. You did not provide evidence for this claim. Just proclaimed it and told everybody to follow you because you are right. I challenged that claim with evidence. I asked for evidence to support your claim (e.g. name 1 year in the last 100 years where over 100 million people died from disease). Simple. Give me something besides "the world is the pits". When has the world never had death, disease, war, violence, murder? Just because it is happening now, doesn't mean life now is worse than any other period in history.

You constantly say "I am right and everybody is wrong". You knock on peoples doors and tell them they're wrong and ignore the facts. When you are confronted with facts that disprove your claims, you run away and act like a child. You can't just make claims and call them fact. That is not how it works.

Once again, I will repeat myself. I have never claimed any of those things. You are putting words in my mouth. This rant is filled with sarcasm and childish remarks.

I am just proving your claims false and holding you to a level of accountability, which has become obvious that you are not accustomed too, evidenced by your childish and immature response. When backed in a corner you respond immaturely.

You claimed current times are the worst in human history. You did not provide evidence for this claim. Just proclaimed it and told everybody to follow you because you are right. I challenged that claim with evidence. I asked for evidence to support your claim (e.g. name 1 year in the last 100 years where over 100 million people died from disease). Simple. Give me something besides "the world is the pits". When has the world never had death, disease, war, violence, murder? Just because it is happening now, doesn't mean life now is worse than any other period in history.

You constantly say "I am right and everybody is wrong". You knock on peoples doors and tell them they're wrong and ignore the facts. When you are confronted with facts that disprove your claims, you run away and act like a child. You can't just make claims and call them fact. That is not how it works.

Ur talking about 1 instance where people died from disease. It does not stop there though. So because aids has not killed 100 mil in a year, we're better off today? U do know the wars of the last 100 years has killed more people then all of the wars in all of the previous years mankind has existed? Your logic is flawed as usual.

The prophecy speaks of wars rumors of wars, pestilence no natural affection, mothwr against daughter, father against son, and the kingdom message being preached.

Murder is so common, its not even front page news anymore. Family structure is broken like never before. Immorality? All time high. No sex before marriage? what a joke. Og it was not for the window dressing, money, power, technology, sports, etc to take our minds off things, it be easy to see how bad off we are. But of course, thats exactly how Satan likes it. Lull u to sleep "all is well! Its been like this"

The scientific advances in weaponry has the whole world on edge. Pollution, global warming, the world is outta wack like never before. Ur the science man, u should know that.

The dark ages didnt have Crack cocaine. Didnt have bloods and crips with that silly assed initiation day to prey on people just minding their biz. Every thug on the corner has a handgun. U feel safe knowin that? u feel safe with more layoffs knowin that whem people gotta eat they do whatever to get that? They flew planes into skyscrapers in the dark ages? Atomic bombs? Ak 47's? Criminals have weapons cops cant carry. But nah, we straigjt! Every day some kid ges cut in his ace for ipods or cell phones, of not killed. Safe?

Yea, Im sure they worried of all that on the damn dark ages. Cany even get on a plane without getin strip searched. Goooooood times!

Yet im the one lacking awareness.

I have one last question. If Jehovah is not real, then who will fix things? The most intelligeny beings in existence, human beings, right?

Ur talking about 1 instance where people died from disease. It does not stop there though. So because aids has not killed 100 mil in a year, we're better off today? U do know the wars of the last 100 years has killed more people then all of the wars in all of the previous years mankind has existed? Your logic is flawed as usual.

The prophecy speaks of wars rumors of wars, pestilence no natural affection, mothwr against daughter, father against son, and the kingdom message being preached.

Murder is so common, its not even front page news anymore. Family structure is broken like never before. Immorality? All time high. No sex before marriage? what a joke. Og it was not for the window dressing, money, power, technology, sports, etc to take our minds off things, it be easy to see how bad off we are. But of course, thats exactly how Satan likes it. Lull u to sleep "all is well! Its been like this"

The scientific advances in weaponry has the whole world on edge. Pollution, global warming, the world is outta wack like never before. Ur the science man, u should know that.

The dark ages didnt have Crack cocaine. Didnt have bloods and crips with that silly assed initiation day to prey on people just minding their biz. Every thug on the corner has a handgun. U feel safe knowin that? u feel safe with more layoffs knowin that whem people gotta eat they do whatever to get that? They flew planes into skyscrapers in the dark ages? Atomic bombs? Ak 47's? Criminals have weapons cops cant carry. But nah, we straigjt! Every day some kid ges cut in his ace for ipods or cell phones, of not killed. Safe?

Yea, Im sure they worried of all that on the damn dark ages. Cany even get on a plane without getin strip searched. Goooooood times!

Yet im the one lacking awareness.

I have one last question. If Jehovah is not real, then who will fix things? The most intelligeny beings in existence, human beings, right?

If you are expecting disease to end, war to end, crime to end, greed to end and people to live forever happliy then you are going to be disappointed. Humans will never solve every problem. And god is not coming down to murder everybody. Time to pick yourself up and make the best out of your life. No one is going to save you or make your life better. Only you can do it.

I never said things are not bad or that bad things do not exist today. It's obvious there is a lot of murder, disease, death, war. Humans and life in general, for all creatures, exists in a fragile balance that can collapse at any moment.

Your example of people dying from war was challenged already. Greater numbers of people = greater numbers of everything. There are also a greater number of people that are happy than ever in human history. Therefore today is better than any other point in history.

And yes, 100 million people dying in 1 year alone just from 1 disease pretty much classifies that period as probably the worst time in history. Add on the wars that killed millions of people and you have scenarios like this:

"Such was the multitude of corpses brought to the churches every day and almost every hour that there was not enough consecrated ground to give them burial, especially since they wanted to bury each person in the family grave, according to the old custom. Although the cemeteries were full they were forced to dig huge trenches, where they buried the bodies by hundreds. Here they stowed them away like bales in the hold of a ship and covered them with a little earth, until the whole trench was full."

"One citizen avoided another, hardly any neighbour troubled about others, relatives never or hardly ever visited each other. Moreover, such terror was struck into the hearts of men and women by this calamity, that brother abandoned brother, and the uncle his nephew, and the sister her brother, and very often the wife her husband. What is even worse and nearly incredible is that fathers and mothers refused to see and tend their children, as if they had not been theirs."

I don't know. That was a pretty bad time. Like I said, just because there are a lot or problems today, doesn't make it worse. Trust me, you did not want to live in the Dark Ages. You would be hoping for today's conditions if you lived back then.

In light of the recent NYT article, would you say that the prophecy has come true in your lifetime?

Yes and no.

The prophecy of wars, earthquakes, famine, nations rising against nations, etc, as we've discussed, have always been a part of life. It really isn't a prophecy if it's always occurring.

The article states that The Watchtower is the most widely distributed magazine in the world. Does that mean the gospel of the kingdom is being preached throughout the whole world? I don't know. According to you, yes. Sure, I guess.

I have no idea what the "whole world" means. Does it mean that the gospel must reach every inhabited part of the world? Or just a broad bush approach and it's ok to miss some? I am certain there are many inhabited parts of South America, Africa, Asia, and Australia that have never even heard of a JW or even Jesus Christ.

So, Yes if the "whole world" is used as a broad interpretation, and No if the "whole world" is used as a more literal interpretation. But, and I could be wrong about this, weren't JW's banned from Singapore, Iran and some other countries? Wouldn't that classify the prophecy as false, if it were true?

And the last part of the prophecy will not be true until the end happens, so debating that part would be moot.

The prophecy of wars, earthquakes, famine, nations rising against nations, etc, as we've discussed, have always been a part of life. It really isn't a prophecy if it's always occurring.

The article states that The Watchtower is the most widely distributed magazine in the world. Does that mean the gospel of the kingdom is being preached throughout the whole world? I don't know. According to you, yes. Sure, I guess.

I have no idea what the "whole world" means. Does it mean that the gospel must reach every inhabited part of the world? Or just a broad bush approach and it's ok to miss some? I am certain there are many inhabited parts of South America, Africa, Asia, and Australia that have never even heard of a JW or even Jesus Christ.

So, Yes if the "whole world" is used as a broad interpretation, and No if the "whole world" is used as a more literal interpretation. But, and I could be wrong about this, weren't JW's banned from Singapore, Iran and some other countries? Wouldn't that classify the prophecy as false, if it were true?

And the last part of the prophecy will not be true until the end happens, so debating that part would be moot.

Imo this is the fairest you've been, much respect!!!!

Im sure its a broad spectrum. The job is to cover ever nation, to give everyone a chance to know the truth. Even in lands where we are banned, watchtowers and literature are descretely left in places where they can be read. Underground bible studies, etc. Jws risk their lives im these situations, even get killed for it, but we must obey God rather than men. trust me, there are Jw stories abt the most volatile places.... all we get herw is the usual door slam, maybe dog bites, cursed out. The bros and sisters in those lands have it rough.

Explain that vaccine stuff to me again tho. Or show me where I can leatn abt it pls. Thx.

Lol@ the dark ages not having crips and bloods. This belongs in a quality SNL skit.

There are various measurable and metrics that can be used to compare the 1100-1300's and to 1900-present.

It would take actual work on everyone's part to sufficiently compile them and sift through (tho maybe one could be found already done online).

So you just need to ask yourself one question: would you rather be born randomly to some family today, or to one during the Medieval Era.

It's very simple.

You mention modern warfare, ironically, as a primary scourge of our modernity. And it is.

Yet the very countries and people involved in those very worst of wars, are the very people and nations that would be at the top of the list in showcasing superiority in quality of life.

What % of American, Italian, Japanese, British, and Russian people would rather have their current temporal-based existence of modern times, versus the Medieval Era?

The top 1%'tile of life in that time periods would he a humbling, devastatingly wretched experience for 99% of people today.

The absolute worst of human experience and condition today, was the norm; and it didn't have hope in the form of better life and charity.

It's just funny you mention Western problems and examples first and foremost, as if LA smog and inner city NY gangs is some outrageously humbling blight; not even going for the angle of pinpointing, I don't know, Malyasian farmers and Uguandan children.

It wouldn't make your argument any less fallacious and wrong, just more palpable to being digested by someone without actually thinking about it.

Here is a theory and conjecture that I have; we can even treat it as fact as Knickslyfe is so fond of things being treated that way:

You live the most injuriously, loathsomely privileged existence of them all. And if there is a true blight to The World today; a blight that festers not within the actually blighted, but the Western world and all else fortunate enough to only look on from ivory watchtowers: it is you. And the self-gratifying, self-serving equivocation of reality.

So psychotic and zealously rooted, that you would dream of wishing a Medeival quality of life upon the globe, if not but to just make the bubble of religion you've latched on to, make sense.

Shameful and shameless.

Is it because your religion is a fringe, an inescapable figment of your psychosis and personal wants, only shared by a few?

Your arguments of desperately far-fetched logic and morality only mirror the desperation of yourself and your selfish, selfish crutch. Which only works as long as you talk about it, and dream about it, and hope for it, and try to draw from it. Because in the cold, hard facts of life and it's reality: it is meaningless.

Except if we actually lived in the Medieval times and were forced to accept it by tyranny and enslavement and fear.

God is not an ego, not a man in the sky. As such, God cares not what we call IT, whether we join this or that group or whatever.

God has unbounded compassion, which is evident to all who are witnesses to IT's gracious provision of life, food, water, etc., to all beings. Except for the most enlightened of beings, we cannot even comprehend, let alone practice, this compassion.

And, if there is a lake of fire, God must be there. If there is a grave for all those that do not use empty words, in spite of the love they might have in their hearts for the divine [as they see it], God must also be there. As God is supreme and limitless, God must be ALL.

"How can The one supreme consciousness, which, without effort, rules the living and the inert and is all-pervasive, be other than I? As the rays of the sun differ not from the sun, so matter does not differ from God." -The Avadhuta Gita

God is not an ego, not a man in the sky. As such, God cares not what we call IT, whether we join this or that group or whatever.

God has unbounded compassion, which is evident to all who are witnesses to IT's gracious provision of life, food, water, etc., to all beings. Except for the most enlightened of beings, we cannot even comprehend, let alone practice, this compassion.

And, if there is a lake of fire, God must be there. If there is a grave for all those that do not use empty words, in spite of the love they might have in their hearts for the divine [as they see it], God must also be there. As God is supreme and limitless, God must be ALL.

"How can The one supreme consciousness, which, without effort, rules the living and the inert and is all-pervasive, be other than I? As the rays of the sun differ not from the sun, so matter does not differ from God." -The Avadhuta Gita

ॐ

Not according to the bible. He says Jehovah is his name, and his name it shall be forever. I know he is real, because what he says will happen, does. The Watchtower being the worlds most read mag is just proof in our day.

Not according to the bible. He says Jehovah is his name, and his name it shall be forever. I know he is real, because what he says will happen, does. The Watchtower being the worlds most read mag is just proof in our day.

What you believe in is an idea; and, though holy men have tried to contain the supreme in idea [for our benefit], it is not possible. They know this, but must use words in working to reach us. This was my point. God is all, limitless, unrestricted by "words of the mouth." Proverbs 18

4 The words of the mouth are deep waters,
but the fountain of wisdom is a rushing stream.

To presume to have spiritual authority, even over oneself, is to be in error. This is written of in all the major religions and their holy books. However, most of the various religious groups [including the JWs] pridefully judge the salvation of others, as well as their own, essentially working to usurp God's power, which, though they try, is impossible.

Proverbs 18

12 Before a downfall the heart is haughty, but humility comes before honor.

People do a lot of things, mindlessly. If they read the watchtower, many likely do so mindlessly. How does the watchtower make them peaceful, compassionate or loving [which was the essence of Christ's message]? This is what you should be asking yourself.

And it is the Gospels and teachings of the apostles that were meant to reach the people, not a magazine [written somewhere in Brooklyn].
1 John 3

14 We know that we have passed from death to life,
because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death.

16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us.
And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.

18 Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

Conclusion: Love and wordless communion and wisdom is the way. Words and selfish pride [the individual's, as part of the organization, and vice versa] are not the way.

"When to all outward appearances men give us no credit,
when they do not think well of us,
then we are more inclined to seek God (Who sees our hearts)."
-Thomas a Kempis, The Imitation of Christ

Og, I respect ur position, and what you stand for, but you sit there with a very hypocritical stance saying people read the watchtower mindlessly, and ur philosophocal viewpoints, are quite unfounded, when speaking on the bible. Why? Because the bible has its own theme, its spelled out for you by its author, and what you do is deviate from the sound, cohesive teachings of it, and put ur own spin on it. Which is why you lack biblical understanding.

And the nerve of you to sit behind your pc/phone and say everyone who reads the watchtower is mindless. But if everyone took ur position I guess that would qualify as growth and understanding? Knock it off. You are not that bright, nor noble. I base my faith on a higher being, someone I believe is loving and responsible for all things relevant concerning life. His way, is way better than yours. He does not have his people running around mindlessly, in fact, Jw are some of the smartest people in the world.

Here is what it is, like it or not. Math 24:14
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

The only people on earth that know what the Kingdom message truly is, are JW. The Watchtower is the worlds most read magazine in the WORLD! The message in that magazine coincides exactly with what Jesus preached, which would be exactly what Jehovah would want humans to know. Thr work is getting done, despite hate and heavy opposition, and it does not hinge on imperfevt human philosophy, but truth! real truth, unlike your philosophical rhetoric you THINK is true.

You do not provide what the watchtower society does, because you and your views are not backed by God. Clearly, JWS are, because there has never in human history been such a thorough worldwide preaching of truth. And Jesus said it would happen thousands of years ago.

You read mat 28:14 and only a fool or hater could say its not happening. You can scoff, say we're mindless, stupid, etc... But all we have to do is look around and we can see the prophecies unfolding around us. And there is nothing anyone can do to stop it....

Og, I respect ur position, and what you stand for, but you sit there with a very hypocritical stance saying people read the watchtower mindlessly, and ur philosophocal viewpoints, are quite unfounded, when speaking on the bible. Why? Because the bible has its own theme, its spelled out for you by its author, and what you do is deviate from the sound, cohesive teachings of it, and put ur own spin on it. Which is why you lack biblical understanding.

And the nerve of you to sit behind your pc/phone and say everyone who reads the watchtower is mindless. But if everyone took ur position I guess that would qualify as growth and understanding? Knock it off. You are not that bright, nor noble. I base my faith on a higher being, someone I believe is loving and responsible for all things relevant concerning life. His way, is way better than yours. He does not have his people running around mindlessly, in fact, Jw are some of the smartest people in the world.

Here is what it is, like it or not. Math 24:14
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

The only people on earth that know what the Kingdom message truly is, are JW. The Watchtower is the worlds most read magazine in the WORLD! The message in that magazine coincides exactly with what Jesus preached, which would be exactly what Jehovah would want humans to know. Thr work is getting done, despite hate and heavy opposition, and it does not hinge on imperfevt human philosophy, but truth! real truth, unlike your philosophical rhetoric you THINK is true.

You do not provide what the watchtower society does, because you and your views are not backed by God. Clearly, JWS are, because there has never in human history been such a thorough worldwide preaching of truth. And Jesus said it would happen thousands of years ago.

You read mat 28:14 and only a fool or hater could say its not happening. You can scoff, say we're mindless, stupid, etc... But all we have to do is look around and we can see the prophecies unfolding around us. And there is nothing anyone can do to stop it....

In the way of Christ...

I did not call you or your organization stupid or mindless. I think no such thing. I said that people who receive magazines (something you expressed having great pride in) likely read them mindlessly. I was thinking of the word "most," when I wrote the line you refer to, and I will change it to reflect what I was actually thinking.

Why is this my impression? Because it's what people do, with many publications and not just the watchtower: when they do read, they tend not to understand what they read; and so, I was questioning the significance of having lots of people "read" a magazine [period].

As for my biblical understanding, we sometimes tend to miss the forest (the fundamental reasons for something) for the trees (a handful of rules, e.g., using the name Jehovah, which does not necessarily mean one understands anything).

First consider the overall message of the bible, then consider the individual components, and you're getting somewhere. The overall message of the bible, especially that of the gospels and the epistles is one of redemption. The individual components are love, compassion, humility and [most of all] peace.

I suggest that your organization lacks a fundamental understanding of the bible and its components. Because of this, its members live in the mind and body (all of which are created in this world), instead of in the heart. Instead of love and compassion, which moved Jesus to violate all sorts of Jewish laws, most JWs I have met love in spite of the organization and its focus on rules, not because of it.

And please look at the scripture I posted and tell me whether your organization is compatible with Apostle John's call for loving with actions and truth, rather than with words (1 John 3:18). It is only through love, and not words, that our goodness can be proven true, as the supreme is not the result of words.

And again, the Supreme is in all, otherwise It would not be supreme. Nothing we say, as individuals, can change the fact that all has and will continue to belong to It, in all hells, earths or heavens. Surely, your organization cannot contain the supreme. It is everywhere, right now, as it always has been.

Not really. Do ur research. We translate in just abt every known language on earth. Time is almost up.

Language doesn't mean all the inhabited earth. I'm sure there are thousands of communites, totalling millions of people, in practically every country of the world, that have never heard of JWs, or even Jesus Christ for that matter. I can probably point to hundreds of communites in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Botswana, Myanmar, China, Japan, Columbia, Brazil, Mongolia, Uzbekistan, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, etc, etc, etc...

What happens to those people? Do they get murdered by god simply because they live in a part of the world that is remote or doesn't practice christianity? Rather unfair. Is posting a JW pamphlet on a lampost in Tehran, Iran good enough? Does god say, "alright, all of Iran is covered, anybody that didn't happen to read the pamphlet while walking by, or doesn't live in Tehran, will be murdered."?

And what about the billions of people that have already died that never got the chance to learn about JWs because it took you guys too long to get there?

And doesn't this whole process seem a little inefficient for an all powerful, all knowing, being? A group of people printing out flyers and going from door to door? All those people that never had or never will get the chance to know the way god intended, will parish because they were too slow or didn't have the ability to reach them.

I mean, wouldn't god know this? Some people are immediately stand-offish when somebody comes to their personal space. I hang up the phone on telemarketers. Sometimes people don't bother answering their door because they don't want to be disturbed. What happens if the flyer left gets blown away by the wind. That person gets murdered for that?

None of this makes any sense or follows any sort of logic. Certainly not the logic of an all-knowing, powerful being that loved everybody and really didn't want to kill everybody he just wanted them to worship him.