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Hey Guys-
I'm here from the NFL Players Association and was just reading through this thread. We're trying to get as many signatures as we can on this petition, so that when it comes time to meet with the owners we can show them just how many people do not want a lockout next year. We appreciate it!

Although MathewsChiefs brings up some good points that depict the opinion of the casual hard working fan very accuratly, I would have to say that BWilliams and Chief31 really nailed this one for what it is - in my opinion.

The bottom line here is that there is X amount of money entering this business and an already negotiated percentage of that money is going to the workers. (players)

The NFL owners would like to lower that negotiated percentage and make the employees work more hours even though the X amount seems to be either increasing or staying the same.

In any other business this would be laughed at and deemed unethical.

This point sounds great until I replace that X amount with 50 Billion dollars and the negotiated amount at 30 Billion dollars.

All of the sudden my point isn't taken seriously by the hard working American family man who can't even fathom that amount of money. Especially when he sees that that the players are getting more than half of the leagues income.

But you cant argue that this is the only business that the employees receive more than the owners because in this business the players are also the product.

For product and payroll to only cost a company 52% of their revenue is actually a very low figure that most companies wish they could obtain.

All of the sudden 52% sounds low doesn't it?

When you tie in all of the health issues and early death expectancy statistics with the fact that the majority of these players are making barely a sliver of what the marquee player is recieving, it really becomes a no brainer to me.

In my opinion, this backout stance that the owners have taken on the CBA is a ruthless thug move that should be looked at very negatively by the public.

Unfortunatly the casual fan will never know any of the points that were brought up in this thread and side with owners that appear to be doing the "right thing."

This was one of the best threads that I have read in this forum in quite while as everybody involved stuck to thier guns and really threw out some great facts without getting personal.

I remember what the hardcore forum was like during the Herm Edwards era and I think we have came a long way. Those of you that were around then know what I'm talking about. LOL

Don't get me wrong, I love watching football especially my Chiefs. Football is just a sport. Our nations military fights and dies daily for peanuts compared to any NFL player or owner. I can do without the skill sets of 99.99% of NFL players. I (We-Our country) cannot do without the skill sets of our nations military, or our states police, firefighters, and emergency services. I agree that all of our career choices are just that choices. We won't have to worry about these NFL situations, if we can no longer speak english in our own country; due to another country calling the shots...Priorities!

Don't get me wrong, I love watching football especially my Chiefs. Football is just a sport. Our nations military fights and dies daily for peanuts compared to any NFL player or owner. I can do without the skill sets of 99.99% of NFL players. I (We-Our country) cannot do without the skill sets of our nations military, or our states police, firefighters, and emergency services. I agree that all of our career choices are just that choices. We won't have to worry about these NFL situations, if we can no longer speak english in our own country; due to another country calling the shots...Priorities!

THIS

As i have stated in this thread a few times I hate what the owners have done but I will not be 100% pro players either. IMO there is greed on there side as well. When you make more then 75% of the pouplation and you want MORE IMO that is greed.

As i have stated in this thread a few times I hate what the owners have done but I will not be 100% pro players either. IMO there is greed on there side as well. When you make more then 75% of the pouplation and you want MORE IMO that is greed.

75%? Try 95%.

There will be a lockout, and it's because of pure greed. The only question now is how long will it last?

I love my Chiefs, I love the players. They do risk permanent life altering injuries each week, although the NFL has implented many rules protecting players...it still happens. The stats do show their lifespan is shortened, and they risk a senior life of severe joint & muscular issues. Although, the players are more healthy today than those of yesterday, are better taken care of by the franchise medical teams, and medical science has advanced as well, treating health issues related to athletic careers. Players today also have pensions and healthcare coverage, of which decades ago once a career was over, they had to rely on other careers for income, pension, healthcare.

The players are entertainers, no different in theory than movie stars...with exception most athletes spend a lifetime sacrificing and focusing on perfecting their athletic talents and abilities, including childhood. Most deserve to make big money, they've paid their lifetime dues & then some. Don't mean to offend nor disrespect, but most owners inherited wealth, didn't make the same sacrifices as players. Few are self made billionaires.

The players I really feel badly for...are those before the million dollar contracts and protection of the players association. When I met Otis Taylor the reality became clear...these were the REAL heroes of football. They played for the love of the game more than the money. None of the legends became wealthy from their football paychecks.

Otis was scheduled to do a meet and greet autograph signing at a mall in Topeka several years ago. I was so excited that I would finally get to meet such a Chiefs legend...with much anticipation I waited for the date to arrive. I got there early, thinking I'd beat any long lines forming to meet him. Well, only two fans showed...me and another. I couldn't understand, and still don't...why Chiefs fans wouldn't take an opportunity to meet such a Chiefs HOF and Super Bowl legend while still possible.

Anyway, Otis walked in...I was shocked. This once young athletically talented Super Bowl IV and Chiefs HOF WR could barely walk. He was hunched over in his back, walked very slow, and needed some assistance. He wore no sparkly jewelry, other than his Super Bowl Ring, he wore no high dollar suit, nor designer clothing, rather average everyday clothing. I'm not sure what his finanical life is like, but would imagine it's no different than the average American...rather not that of a legendary Super Bowl Champion WR of today.

I'm grateful to the Players Association...they make sure the players and heroes of the game we have a passion for are protected financially and physically once their career ends...a career that begins in childhood for most. Otis didn't have that, doubt his preventative healthcare was adequate, especially after his career ended. Possibly had he, he wouldn't have been as crippled from his career in later years. He gave of himself for his love of the game, but also for his team, the Hunts, and us fans.

All that said, I do agree there is greed today on both sides. It's too bad really, that neither side considers how truly blessed they are for what they have, not what they don't have.

To the players and the owners...this is reality for many fans: I took my grandson to yesterday's game in celebration of his upcoming birthday. I didn't have to buy his ticket since my friend Kelly let's me use his season ticket seat when he can't make games. Still...Gas $30, parking $22, Stadium Nacho $9, Coke in souvenir cup $6, another Coke later in a regular cup $4.50, and we found him a souvenir t-shirt in the Chiefs sale tent for $10. Without ticket cost...$81.50 to take one grandchild to a Chiefs game. Including the two Diet cokes I had for myself, add $9...$90.50. I didn't eat, though I was hungry, but didn't feel I could afford the cost of the stadium food, & making sure Mikey had a fun & perfect day was what mattered to me most. $90.50 may not seem like a great deal of money to some, but on my current meek disability income I had to cancel a DR's appointment to be able to afford to take Mikey to the game. It was a choice I made in good conscience, and the memories we created are priceless...especially hearing him tell his parents upon returning home..."I'm never going to forget this birthday, it was the best I've ever had."

I simply want both sides to remember us fans...the sacrifices we make for the love of the game. We the fans, are the NFL players & owners employers, realistically. We also own the stadiums as taxpayers of the county the stadium is located. I believe we fans should have a voice and say in the negotiations, rather than be ignored. Maybe we need to found a 'Fans Association' so we can have a vote and say as well. If the NFL won't consider us fans important in the overall negotiating and decisions, maybe we should have a "lockout".

Our society overall has become so spoiled, selfish, and greedy...taking much for granted daily of priceless value. I suggest both sides reflect upon MLB strike many years ago...the fan base supporting MLB has not been the same since. Reports say NFL stadiums and owners are struggling as it is with low fan attendance, due mostly to a failed economy and the high cost of attending a game already. I don't think the owners nor county/city taxpayer owned stadiums can afford to lose more fans. A lockout will be cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

Last edited by Connie Jo; 11-22-2010 at 08:26 PM.

"Official Chiefs Crowd / Historian/Correspondent / Ambassador"

"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall. The real glory is being knocked to your knees and then coming back. That's real glory. That's the essence of it." ~Vince Lombardi~

The average NFL salary in 2009 was $770 000 (this is closer to 20x the average salary)

1. That isn't ten times the average salary (about $40K).

Originally Posted by bwilliams

guys who make less than $1M over their football career (about 80% of the league).

By your numbers the average career is 3 years. That makes $2 310 000 over an average career. Where do you get 80% from?

Originally Posted by chief31

The average NFL player isn't making that much. And he is taking a huge phisical risk to his body, therefore life.

$2 310 000
The players union isn't about the well-being of Drew Brees. It's about the well being of the avergae guy who hones his skill for a lifetime, and injury shortens that.

I am going to side with the players every single time. As I know players who aren't millionaires. Does anyone, anywhere on earth, know an owner that isn't a billionaire?

The owners own the company and shoulder ALL of the financial risk. Why shouldn't they make most of the profit?

Originally Posted by bwilliams

The average football player plays three years for about $1,000,000. Let's say $1,000,000 exact. 15% off the top goes to the player's agent. That leaved $850,000. Their federal taxation rate is 35%, and the average state taxation rate is 9%. The total after that is $476,000. Which totals $158,666 per year. Factor in cost of living, rookie hazing, and all of the rest, and they're making basically nothing their first contract.

Double those numbers and its a little more realistic.

Originally Posted by bwilliams

And as I showed you earlier, the average NFL player isn't buying $100,000 cars. They aren't making millions. Why do you think they are?

Im not sure where you guys are getting all your number from but in 2009 the average NFL salary was $770 000. You say the average career last 3 years...that makes $2 310 000. I find it hard to believe that 80% of the league is making the league minimum. While I dont agree with the work stoppage, everyone should shoulder their share of the blame. Injuries etc...part of the inherent risk of your chosen line of work.

The only reason a beer sweats around Canada is because he's decided it will be the next beer he drinks.

Don't get me wrong, I love watching football especially my Chiefs. Football is just a sport. Our nations military fights and dies daily for peanuts compared to any NFL player or owner. I can do without the skill sets of 99.99% of NFL players. I (We-Our country) cannot do without the skill sets of our nations military, or our states police, firefighters, and emergency services. I agree that all of our career choices are just that choices. We won't have to worry about these NFL situations, if we can no longer speak english in our own country; due to another country calling the shots...Priorities!

Politics and sports don't gel together. I distract my self with sporting events from the world we live in now. Sports (CHIEFS FOOTBALL) is my safe haven.

You know what is funny about people in general. You all want to complain about the price of a ticket, complaining that these owners are ripping off the fans, ripping off the players, yet who do you think it is that spends millions to put on this game every Sunday? Do you think the NFL magically comes up with the money to put these games together? Who pays the parking attendents? Security guards? Who pays the electricity for the stadium? In many cases, who paid to build the darn stadium to begin with.

Then add in that the players want their salaries as well. Is there room for a raise? You tell me? Judging by attendance at Arrowhead I would say that there is no room for a ticket price raise. So where does the extra money come from?

I really wonder, what is the liability insurance cost for one Sunday at Arrowhead to cover 70,000 screaming fans who at any point could slip on a spilt beer and break their necks? How about coverage for if one of the players on the field gets angry and beats up a person in the stands?

The players could probably get more money, but those costs are going to ultimately come from you and me in increased ticket sales and increased merchandising.

I have a hard time siding with anyone, all of these people make more money than I do, so if I let me anger for the greedy taint my vision, then I would say all of these people are out of their minds.