YAMANTAKA : Dear Mr. Stokes,
What is the difference between an affiliated dojo and a study group? At what level the Suio Ryu gives a teaching authorization?
Best regards and a good keiko

Brian Stokes

23rd August 2002, 18:11

Dear Ubaldo,

Interesting question. From MY perspective an affilated dojo is one where there is a licensed teacher who teaches class AND his/her dojo is recognized as such by the Ryu. Our study group consists of individuals who have been training in the Suio Ryu, both in the US and Japan, have been accepted by the Hombu as students, but who meet to share their expertise with others and amongst themselves -- students helping students -- big brother/little brother; There is no "teacher" present.

I hope this makes sense. Actually, last month while some of us were in Japan, Soke Katsuse offered to establish the Anaheim dojo of Yamazaki Sensei as the Hombu for Suio in the US but we politely turned him down. Those of us present at that time felt that our skills in the Suio Ryu were not of a quality to appropriately represent ourselves as "practioners" of this fine school. Maybe next year.

Thanks for your interest,

Brian Stokes

Yamantaka

24th August 2002, 11:33

Originally posted by Brian Stokes
Dear Ubaldo,

Interesting question. From MY perspective an affilated dojo is one where there is a licensed teacher who teaches class AND his/her dojo is recognized as such by the Ryu. Our study group consists of individuals who have been training in the Suio Ryu, both in the US and Japan, have been accepted by the Hombu as students, but who meet to share their expertise with others and amongst themselves -- students helping students -- big brother/little brother; There is no "teacher" present.I hope this makes sense.

YAMANTAKA : It does. Thank you very much for your answer.

Originally posted by Brian Stokes
Actually, last month while some of us were in Japan, Soke Katsuse offered to establish the Anaheim dojo of Yamazaki Sensei as the Hombu for Suio in the US but we politely turned him down. Those of us present at that time felt that our skills in the Suio Ryu were not of a quality to appropriately represent ourselves as "practioners" of this fine school. Maybe next year.
Thanks for your interest,
Brian Stokes

YAMANTAKA : I think that shows your credibility and your seriousness, Brian San. By the way, is your dojo in Anaheim affiliated with Kiyoshi Yamazaki Sensei, of the Ryobukan? I have the greatest respect for him and for Howard High Sensei.
Best regards and always a good keiko

Brian Stokes

24th August 2002, 14:49

Hi Ubaldo-San,

You are right on target! It is indeed Yamazaki Kiyoshi Sensei's dojo to which I speak. It was through his efforts that we were able to make a formal connection with the Suio Ryu. However, Yamazaki Sensei is not himself involved in training. He is, however, one of our two connections with Katsuse Soke. The other is Antony Cundy of Kendo World.

Have a great day!

Brian Stokes

Yamantaka

26th August 2002, 09:36

Originally posted by Brian Stokes
Hi Ubaldo-San,
You are right on target! It is indeed Yamazaki Kiyoshi Sensei's dojo to which I speak. It was through his efforts that we were able to make a formal connection with the Suio Ryu. However, Yamazaki Sensei is not himself involved in training. He is, however, one of our two connections with Katsuse Soke. The other is Antony Cundy of Kendo World.
Have a great day!
Brian Stokes

YAMANTAKA : Dear Brian San,
Sorry to bother you again but could you ask Mr. Cundy, of Kendo World, about this supposed KORYU, that's also being practiced in Brazil :
http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=13360
Your help, of course, will be much appreciated.
Best

26th August 2002, 11:51

Originally posted by Yamantaka

YAMANTAKA : Dear Brian San,
Sorry to bother you again but could you ask Mr. Cundy, of Kendo World, about this supposed KORYU, that's also being practiced in Brazil :

I would say Tony "Shandy" Cundy would be the man to ask about Japanese Koryu. I have known Tony for many years. He was a translator for the Nippon Budokan and and his knowledge on Japanese arts (sword especially) is among the best out there.

Yamantaka

1st September 2002, 09:36

Originally posted by Robert Rousselot
I would say Tony "Shandy" Cundy would be the man to ask about Japanese Koryu. I have known Tony for many years. He was a translator for the Nippon Budokan and and his knowledge on Japanese arts (sword especially) is among the best out there.

YAMANTAKA : And how may I contact him, Robert San?
Best

1st September 2002, 10:49

I have sent him this thread and he will most likely contact you via email.

Brian Stokes

6th October 2002, 21:59

Hi All,

I am pleased to let all know that a sanctioned study group of the Suio Ryu has been established in Anaheim, California. This Ryu dates back to 1600 and includes many different weapons. It was made famous in the "Baby Cart" series.

For those interested the group meets at the dojo of Yamazaki Sensei every Saturday from 11:00am to approximately 3:00pm, and Wedensday nights from 7:00pm to 9:00pm. The address is 1512 South Euclid, about 1 mile west of Disneyland.

Please come and join us!

Brian Stokes

14th April 2003, 18:41

For those interested the Suio Ryu Study Group website is up and running. Visit:

www.suioryu-usa.org

Thanks!

Brian Stokes

Kusarigama

19th October 2004, 22:53

Greetings,

The Official Website for Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo in the United States is now on-line.

Please follow this link: http://suioryu-usa.org/

Good training,

sven beulke

30th January 2007, 18:39

Hi All!
Just a few days ago i found this thread:http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36087
Brian Stokes posted the following:
FYI - Suio RyuŽ and Suio Ryu Iai KenpoŽ anr trademarks of the Suio RyuŽ, Japan.
Wow! Is this the future of koryu? Please dont take this as a critic but i am wondering why the Suio Ryu registered there name as a trademark. Yes this is maybe a natural step to avoid misuse but its strange in my eyes.
Brian, could you please explain why it has been done and where (what countrys?) the ryu is registered as a trademark? And all others, what do you think about it?
Best

Kusarigama

30th January 2007, 19:39

Please go to this link to see what has been written in this regard on Iaido-L.

http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/wa?A1=ind0701&L=iaido-l

sven beulke

31st January 2007, 07:28

Hi!
I was aware of this thread:http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36059
I understand the reasons for registering the name but i would think its important to dicuss a topic like this!
Best

Brian Stokes

27th February 2007, 18:28

Hi Sven,

A little history. This all started about three years ago. Without getting specific I was consulted on a legal basis about the consequences of an argument that broke out between one of the head instructors of a well known Japanese karate system and one of his students in England. The student in England responded to the argument by filing for and receiving a trademark on the system's name. He then informed his instructor and his Soke that they could not use the system's name at the organization's upcoming international tournament held in ... England. What a mess, yet the student was perfectly within his LEGAL rights.

It was then I realized that individuals with little thought or who act on a whim can exercise control over the use of a name of a tradition hundreds of years old. It was also why I initiated the filings on behalf of Katsuse Soke to trademark Suio RyuŽ and Suio Ryu Iai KenpoŽ. The thread about what is going on in Argentina is a perfect example as to why this was done. From what I understand the individual in question also filed for a trademark in Argentina for the term "Suio Ryu" and received it. Nothing can be done about it now. Ergo NO ONE can use the term Suio Ryu in Argentina without receiving prior permission of Mr. Cirone.* (Filing for a trademark in Argentia and Brazil was my next step, but it had to be done through an attorney. Apparently I was "beaten" to the punch.)

"Honor" can no longer protect that which we have a name for what we do. There are too many people out there who will use the legal system to further their own interests. The only way to protect from this is the defensive use of the legal system.

Is this the future of koryu? Probably yes. If the systems do not defend themselves someone who has never been part of the school can file for, say, "Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu" and "TSKSR" in England or France or Argentina and they WILL own the name.

By the way, on a personaly note I literally HATED being forced to file for a trademark. In my opinion it is absolutely outrageous that anyone would claim the right to the name of a system that does not belong to them and in which they may or may not participate can yet be GRANTED a sole, defendable legal right to it.

Disgusted by all of this,

Brian

ps *B - THIS is precisely why I filed for a trademark.

DDATFUS

27th February 2007, 19:33

Hey, Brian, just a few quick questions along these lines: first, as I understand intellectual property law in the US, wouldn't the fact that you have prior use make it difficult for some guy to trademark the name and then prevent you from using it?

Second, just out of curiosity, would there be any intellectual property issue between you and the company that prints Lone Wolf and Cub in English? Because they've been using the term "Suio Ryu" in print for a while now

Finally, is there any chance you could send somebody with a baby carriage down to Argentina to sort this guy out? ;)

K. Cantwell

28th February 2007, 00:54

Hello Brian,

Hope you don't mind if I jump on the "Pick the Lawyers Brain" train.

Does it make any difference to the trademark process if the name of the system is a family name with living descedents?

For example, would trademarking Yagyu Shinkage-ryu be any different in a legal sense than trademarking Shinto Muso-ryu?

On a personal note, I agree that having to do this with any art is pretty disgusting. It's especially galling when practioners of the art themselves are the cannibals you are defending against. I'm just wondering if certain type of linages will have an easier time fending off the nutters than others.

Second, just out of curiosity, would there be any intellectual property issue between you and the company that prints Lone Wolf and Cub in English? Because they've been using the term "Suio Ryu" in print for a while now

Does it make any legal difference that Tomisaburo doesn't do anything resembling actual Suio-ryu in the movies? Is there a such thing as simply using the name for "atmosphere" rather actual verisimilitude?

(Likewise, the Yagyu clan doesn't remotely resemble the real tradition. My jo teacher also studies Yagyu-Shinkage ryu and I try to stay away from questioning him about the "raise the evil zombie" techniques that he may have learned.)

Thanks.

Kevin Cantwell

DDATFUS

28th February 2007, 02:07

Does it make any legal difference that Tomisaburo doesn't do anything resembling actual Suio-ryu in the movies?

You mean to tell me that Suio Ryu's ultimate techniques don't involve submerging yourself in the water or making use of a baby carriage equipped with spring-loaded blades? Darn. There goes my favorite misconception.

K. Cantwell

28th February 2007, 09:13

You mean to tell me that Suio Ryu's ultimate techniques don't involve submerging yourself in the water or making use of a baby carriage equipped with spring-loaded blades? Darn. There goes my favorite misconception.

I haven't watched the movies in awhile, but isn't there also some "signature" noto that he does? I remember some flashy manipulation that he does all the time, but I can't remember exactly what it was.

When my son was young, I also made him choose between a bouncy-ball and a blade of death. To my eternal shame, he chose the bouncy-ball. To add insult to injury, it was one of those bright yellow ones with the smiley face. So, instead of the two of us embarking on a mission of carnage to strike down the evil Yagyu, we go to the McDonalds Play-Place and eat Mighty Kids chicken nugget meals.

(To tell you the truth, it may be better this way. I think he is a little ADD, and he would probably space hitting the right button at the right time, and the ninja would get me.)

Kevin Cantwell

Kusarigama

27th January 2008, 16:11

Greetings all,

We have recently begun revising our website to include location information for each branch dojo in the Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo USA Shibu.

http://suioryu-usa.org/dojo.html

This would include Anaheim and Irvine in Southern California; San Francisco, California; Pawtucket, Rhode Island; Grove City, Ohio; Omaha, Nebraska; and Sequim, Washington.

The Suio Ryu is one of the few extant koryu, or ancient systems of martial arts, practiced today. It was founded around 1600 by Mima Yoichizaemon Kagenobu, and has followed the traditional method of oral transmission. Today, the head of the Suio Ryu is Katsuse Yoshimitsu Kagehiro, who lives and teaches in Shizuoka City (formerly Shimizu city) in Shizuoka prefecture in Japan

For more information on Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo in the United States, visit our website at: