Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

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Originally Posted by ero-sennin

Whatever you think of PK, sometimes he talks a lot of sense. PK made a post on this in Donnie's thread on deluded boxers. I wanted to make this thread to discuss the ****ty decisions boxers make, the backwards ass things they do in training. This thread may come across as "lookey here, we have some punk thinking he knows better than the pros", but it's just an opinion. The pros, and the trainers who post on ESB are welcome to join in and give their opinions. Some re****ed things I've seen in boxing.

1. Amir Khan said that he did not train all year round. He trained only during training camps. For a professional to do this? It was beyond re****ed. IMO, training camps should be used to peak your conditioning, work on a gameplan, and simulate the actual fight through sparring. It is very physically demanding stuff, and yes boxers do need a break, but not training at all away from camp? It's a joke because when not in training camp, a boxer should be working on technical things. Footwork, perfecting each punch, sharperning your reflexes etc. Mike Tyson would stand in front of a mirror and just throw the same punch over and over, for hours. This type of training is not physically demanding. There is no excuse to avoid it. Don Bradman became the greatest batsmen in the history of cricket because he used to bounce a golf ball off a wall and try to hit it with a stump. He did this over and over. It's not physically demanding. Do some boxers not realise this? Are they so re****ed that they believe training is all or nothing? ***** to the wall type stuff? Bradman trained his eye to greatness this way. This is the type of technical training I'm talking about. Training is the wrong word. It should be called practice. You can practice all year round, away from training camp.

2. Paul William's trainer said that 90% of the training Paul Williams did was conditioning. "Once you know how to throw a jab, you never forget". He thought it was like riding a bike. Once you know how to ride a bike you never forget, so you don't have to practice. Paul Williams was one of my favorite fighters, very entertaining, but he never learned how to use his height and reach. He was never going to learn anything new, because his trainer felt that physical training is all it took. Shocking. It's like Messi saying "I don't have to practice my dribbling or my shooting, because once you learn you never forget. I'm just going to spend my time in the gym and work on my conditioning". It's like Michael Jordan and Roger Federer deciding to spend 90% of their time in the gym and only 10% on the basketball court/tennis court.

3. Trainers telling their fighters to stay away from weights. I have come across coaches like this when I trained. I ignored the advice and never let the coach know I trained with weights. One guy was told to stop going to the gym because big muscles will slow him down. These coaches don't realise that to grow muscles you need to train in a certain way, and have the right diet. There's a massive difference between bodybuilding and strength training. When a guy is able to keep making gains in strength without putting on an ounce of muscle, how is that a bad thing? You are training the nervous system, not making your muscles grow. If power is strength X Speed, then how is training for strength a bad thing?

4. Vic Darchiniyan was supposedly doing 1000 push ups a day when training for a fight. This is very re****ed, because what will it do? It will not give him any strength because to train strength you would need to do low reps and heavy resistance. The only thing it would do is improve muscular endurance. For a boxer, muscular endurance is required mainly in the legs (which is why skipping is such a badass exercise) and the shoulders to keep your arms up. Working out on the speed ball will be more effective for building endurance in the shoulders and at the same time train hand-eye co-ordination and timing. All that time he spent doing push ups would be better utilised on the speed bag. Although to be fair to Darchiniyan, he can also supposedly bench twice his bodyweight so's he's also strong as an Ox.

5. Ricky Hatton's lifestyle away from training camp. Like I said, to me a training camp should be used to peak your physical conditioning, work on your gameplan and simulate the fight. It should not be a fat camp where you spend the first few weeks trying to lose weight.

6. Amir Khan on 24/7 getting into a war in sparring. Roach was away from the wildcard and Khan was sparring some guy in preparation for Garcia. He was sparring like he was Nigel Benn. Like it was some brutal war he was going to get into. When he was told to box, he said it was boring. Beyond re****ed. Hard to believe a professional would do something like that.

7. This last one I'm not sure about. Some trainers feel that your hands should be wrapped even when hitting the bag. You only have one pair of hands so protect them well, because they are your weapons in boxing, is their thinking. Then you have this opposite view.

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He says you should hit the bags with gardening gloves to "condition" the hands, and that the reason fighters break their hands during fights is because they protect them too much in training. I don't know man. I don't know if he's correct, or if it's a stupid, backwards thing to do. What do the pros and trainers on here think?

Right you have just written a massive essay about how pro boxers should train/live so can I ask, how many professional bouts have you had or been involved with? How many bouts have you been in full stop? How much time have you actually spent in a boxing gym?

Pro's train ridiculously hard, if they do not they do not achieve anything, it is wise to keep things ticking over if you're not in training camp, from what I have been told from an s and c coach who wroks with pro boxers, i.e light training sessions that could even just involve stretches but believe me pro's train hard and if you feel their lifestyle is so unprofession, why don't you try and become a pro boxer.

If you want to train 100% all year round that is your choice and you may benefit from that but no a training camp should not be just to sharpen up you ****ing idiot, also do you do realise that boxers don't just work on conditioning while they're in a camp don't you? your comparison to messi is redundant as messi trains with far less intensity than elite boxers do, mainly because he competes far more regularly and then has a break of about 2 months at the end of a season messi is also the greatest player on the planet, a lot of "professional" footballers are on the **** every week and balloon up 2 stone during the summer (I have seen ones from round my end out on the drink a few days before a game). If he trained with the intensity boxers do he'd be fatigued during competition.

Also I train 5-6 days a week and 2 times a days for some of those days. Out of those 7-8 training sessions I have I would only want to train weights once, weights may not get you bigger but you are still conditioning your muscles for a slow push and short burst. If you spend too much time on heavy weights you will have **** stamina, because extra muscle takes up extra oxygen and muscles need to be trained for endurance and explosivness mostly so once a week is ok but plyometric training, which involves maximal muscle contration for less than 200ms, for ballistic strength exercises which involve the muscle only being tensed for a fraction of a second is how to increase power.

Boxers at the elite level deserve a break imo, a few sessions a week won't hurt but the main work is done in the camp. most of these guys are in a camp for 3 months, that's a quarter of a year incase you didn't know, and during that time they will have been training six hours a day with no drink or junk etc. so I think that is where most of the work is done. A complete break for 3-4 weeks is ok too, ricky hatton obviously went too far inbetween camps and he'll be the first to say he payed the price, during camp however he wouldn't have pop, crisps, sweets, takeaways, alohol or any **** food for 3 months and let's not forget he was competing 3x a year and he even had to stick to this regime if it ran through christmas. How many other professions require that? yet you think they're unprofessional?

Just another re****ed post from a no nothing esb poster like 99% of the rest on here.

Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

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Originally Posted by atberry

Yet a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle, and a stronger muscle is a faster muscle

absoulute bollecks. I guess ronnie coleman is the fastest man alive then and also bigger doesn't neccisarily mean stronger either but faster come on get a grip, it all depends on the individuals genetics and what type of conditioning that muscle has undergone. Bigger muscles put much more strain on the heart as well as they consume more oxygen, which massively reduces the body's cario vascular ability as well.

Let's not forget the heart is a muscle as well, and CV exercise is how you train it. also the heart probably the most important muscle in a boxing match

Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

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Originally Posted by iceferg

Right you have just written a massive essay about how pro boxers should train/live so can I ask, how many professional bouts have you had or been involved with? How many bouts have you been in full stop? How much time have you actually spent in a boxing gym?

Just another re****ed post from a no nothing esb poster like 99% of the rest on here.

You ****ing clown, what the hell are you even arguing about?

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Pro's train ridiculously hard, if they do not they do not achieve anything, it is wise to keep things ticking over if you're not in training camp, from what I have been told from an s and c coach who wroks with pro boxers, i.e light training sessions that could even just involve stretches but believe me pro's train hard and if you feel their lifestyle is so unprofession, why don't you try and become a pro boxer.

Of course they train hard ,you mug. They should keep things ticking over when not in camp should they? Some light training sessions, right? That's exactly what I said. You just agreed with me, you spastic You are a fifth of the way to becoming a re****.

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If you want to train 100% all year round that is your choice and you may benefit from that but no a training camp should not be just to sharpen up you ****ing idiot, also do you do realise that boxers don't just work on conditioning while they're in a camp don't you?

Who the **** said training at 100% all year round is a good thing. I made it very clear that boxers must peak at the right time (which is the opposite of saying they should be at 100% all year round you ****). Did I say a training camp is just to sharpen up skills? No. I said it's to peak conditioning, work on a gameplan, and simulate the fight. Learn to read, dumb ****. You are now a quarter of the way to becoming a re****.

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your comparison to messi is redundant as messi trains with far less intensity than elite boxers do, mainly because he competes far more regularly and then has a break of about 2 months at the end of a season messi is also the greatest player on the planet, a lot of "professional" footballers are on the **** every week and balloon up 2 stone during the summer (I have seen ones from round my end out on the drink a few days before a game). If he trained with the intensity boxers do he'd be fatigued during competition.

Let me spell it out for you. Peterson said that 90% of the training Williams did was conditioning, and only 10% of it was technical stuff. This is the equivalent of Messi spending 90% of his time in the gym, and only 10% on the football pitch. No one is talking about intensity. Get it? No? Then you are three quarters of the way to being a re****.

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Also I train 5-6 days a week and 2 times a days.

..............Do you want me to give you a medal? Do you want me to clap for you?

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weights may not get you bigger but you are still conditioning your muscles for a slow push and short burst. If you spend too much time on heavy weights you will have **** stamina, because extra muscle takes up extra oxygen and muscles need to be trained for endurance and explosivness

Right. So you say weights may not get you bigger, but in the same ****in' paragraph are telling me if you spend too much time on weights the "extra muscles" will **** up your stamina? Who said anything about spending too much time on weight, you clown? Did I even mention the amount of time a boxer should spend on weights? Did I give hours? Did I say how many times a week they should train with weights?. No, all I said is that some trainers are backwards because they have the wrong attitude towards weights.

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Boxers at the elite level deserve a break imo, a few sessions a week won't hurt but the main work is done in the camp.

so basically you've just said you agree with what I said. Which is the same thing you just said there in case you didn't read. Congratulations, you have now been exposed as full re****.

Brah, you shouldn't have bothered. Got totally and utterly annihilated. This was a worse clowning than Mayweather vs Gatti. Point by point you got pwned like some geek pwning a noob on counter strike. I did some geek level clowning.It was all very easy too. Compared to you, I am an elite level individual. You'll need to come up with some valid **** before you start spouting off. Learning to read would be a good ****in' start

Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

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Originally Posted by ero-sennin

You ****ing clown, what the hell are you even arguing about?

Of course they train hard ,you mug. They should keep things ticking over when not in camp should they? Some light training sessions, right? That's exactly what I said. You just agreed with me, you spastic You are a fifth of the way to becoming a re****.

Who the **** said training at 100% all year round is a good thing. I made it very clear that boxers must peak at the right time (which is the opposite of saying they should be at 100% all year round you ****). Did I say a training camp is just to sharpen up skills? No. I said it's to peak conditioning, work on a gameplan, and simulate the fight. Learn to read, dumb ****. You are now a quarter of the way to becoming a re****.

Let me spell it out for you. Peterson said that 90% of the training Williams did was conditioning, and only 10% of it was technical stuff. This is the equivalent of Messi spending 90% of his time in the gym, and only 10% on the football pitch. No one is talking about intensity. Get it? No? Then you are three quarters of the way to being a re****.

..............Do you want me to give you a medal? Do you want me to clap for you?

Right. So you say weights may not get you bigger, but in the same ****in' paragraph are telling me if you spend too much time on weights the "extra muscles" will **** up your stamina? Who said anything about spending too much time on weight, you clown? Did I even mention the amount of time a boxer should spend on weights? Did I give hours? Did I say how many times a week they should train with weights?. No, all I said is that some trainers are backwards because they have the wrong attitude towards weights.

so basically you've just said you agree with what I said. Which is the same thing you just said there in case you didn't read. Congratulations, you have now been exposed as full re****.

Brah, you shouldn't have bothered. Got totally and utterly annihilated. This was a worse clowning than Mayweather vs Gatti. Point by point you got pwned like some geek pwning a noob on counter strike. I did some geek level clowning.It was all very easy too. Compared to you, I am an elite level individual. You'll need to come up with some valid **** before you start spouting off. Learning to read would be a good ****in' start

Just high lighting that little part of your quote because what you actually said is: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle".

Now tell me how do you know boxers do not do a bit of training all year round, I think you'll find if you look hard enough that actually 90% of boxers do train even out of camp and like I said all you need to do out of camp is put the body through stretches once a week and don't go too crazy with the drink or diet. There are boxers who do not follow this strategy and provided they put the work in in camp they can make up for it.

Also I obviously do not agree with what you have said otherwise I would not have made the argument, what I am saying is that you know nothing about boxing and that in actual fact most boxers do a small bit of maintainance work outside of camp and the work they do in the camp is utter hell and is very professional.

Also with regards to Williams's coach, he got his boxer from an amateur all the way to a world title, when you do that you can comment. Williams will have overall been doing much more hours per day training than messi was so he probably would be spending as much time training skill overall and he had a style which was mainly based around his physical strengths anyway, I personally wouldn't follow that training method but different athletes respond to different methods.

You implied that training camps should just there for boxers to sharpen up and that shouldn't be the case, this is utter bollecks as training camps are not just there to sharpen up and you said they should already basically be at their best going into a camp which is boolecks, in reality they are there to train and fully prepare for a fight, and the process boxers go through is very professional but a little key board ***** like you wouldn't appreciate that.

With regards to the weight training as well, they may not get you bigger provided you only train once or twice a week, that is the maximum amount of time you should spend on them in boxing, weight training often does increase the size of muscles however and it does not increase the strength of the heart. also working with heavy weights tires your muscles out a lot, so if spend a lot of time on them you will be suffering from delayed onset muscle soreness while going into all your other training sessions, you will not be able to increase your endurance as much as you like and if you do put on size it will increase the strain on your heart. There are several reasons why too much weights training is bad in boxing and I think coaches know more about that than you.

Truth is in reality your just like the 90% of posters here who little about how boxers should train etc. but thinks googling it and reading an article on wiki makes you an expert on it.

Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

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Originally Posted by iceferg

absoulute bollecks. I guess ronnie coleman is the fastest man alive then and also bigger doesn't neccisarily mean stronger either but faster come on get a grip, it all depends on the individuals genetics and what type of conditioning that muscle has undergone. Bigger muscles put much more strain on the heart as well as they consume more oxygen, which massively reduces the body's cario vascular ability as well.

Let's not forget the heart is a muscle as well, and CV exercise is how you train it. also the heart probably the most important muscle in a boxing match

Ronnie Coleman is a genetic freak who used life-threatening ammounts of AAS. It's highly unlikely that a pro boxer will get that big

Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceferg

Just high lighting that little part of your quote because what you actually said is: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle".

Also with regards to Williams's coach, he got his boxer from an amateur all the way to a world title, when you do that you can comment. Williams will have overall been doing much more hours per day training than messi was so he probably would be spending as much time training overall, I personally wouldn't follow that training method but different athletes respond to different methods.

That was a quote from PK, you ****wit. Hence the quotation marks. You do know what quotation marks are, right? I made it clear in my first paragraph that was a quote from PK.

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Now tell me how do you know boxers do not do a bit of training all year round, I think you'll find if you look hard enough that actually 90% of boxers do train even out of camp and like I said all you need to do out of camp is put the body through stretches once a week and don't go too crazy with the drink or diet. There are boxers who do not follow this strategy and provided they put the work in in camp they can make up for it.

That point was in reference to Amir Khan who stated he did not do any training outside of training camp, but will start doing so now that he's with Hunter. Again, if you knew how to read, you would've realised this. It did not apply to 90% of boxers, I was talking about one boxer.

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Also I obviously do not agree with what you have said otherwise I would not have made the argument, what I am saying is that you know nothing about boxing and that in actual fact most boxers do a small bit of maintainance work outside of camp and the work they do in the camp is utter hell and is very professional.

You did agree with what I said because it's the same ****in' thing you said, you absolute moron. You and I both agree that fighters need to rest, they can't be at 100% all year round, and the bulk of the training needs to take place during camps. What part of this don't you understand, dumbass?

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You implied that training camps are just there for boxers to sharpen up at the moment and that shouldn't be the case, this is utter bollecks as training camps are not just there to sharpen up, they are there to train and fully prepare for a fight, and the process boxers go through is very professional but a little key board ***** like you wouldn't appreciate that.

Oh so now I "implied" that did I? Funny you say that, because this is what I wrote in my OPENING post

"training camps should be used to peak your conditioning, work on a gameplan, and simulate the actual fight through sparring. It is very physically demanding stuff, and yes boxers do need a break"

Yeah I really implied what you said didn't I?

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Also with regards to Williams's coach, he got his boxer from an amateur all the way to a world title, when you do that you can comment.

Great logic. Shut down the whole forum then because only people who have won a world title are allowed an opinion. I guess people were wrong to criticize Vince Cleverly as well since none of us have trained anyone to such a high level.

and as for weights, who said anything about "too much" weight training. Who said boxers should train weights more than twice a week? Who said they should train x amount of times a week, for x amount of hours? Who are you arguing with? Some imaginary guy? Some reptillian? You are the ****head who's making assumptions here.

Seriously, this is beyond your capacity. You're better off going back to talking about reptillian beings and illuminati conspiracies in the lounge. I'm gonna steal one of dftaylor's insults now because you are an "utter, utter, ****wit".

Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

No you basically said that if this wasn't done out of camp that boxers are unprofessional, I did not agree with that. You may have quoted that guy, but you did so in agreement. They don't just train for 9 months a year, they live a lifestyle for 9 months a year they are very professional and every point you have made is utter ****e.

Also atberry, get a grip, you made the stupidest connection ever by implying that bigger muscles = faster muscles, rubbish.

Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

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Originally Posted by iceferg

No you basically said that if this wasn't done out of camp that boxers are unprofessional, I did not agree with that. You may have quoted that guy, but you did so in agreement. They don't just train for 9 months a year, they live a lifestyle for 9 months a year they are very professional and every point you have made is utter ****e.

Also atberry, get a grip, you made the stupidest connection ever by implying that bigger muscles = faster muscles, rubbish.

Pathetic. If what wasn't done out of camp that boxers are unprofessional? What is "this"? the **** are you babbling on about? Express yourself clearly.

No. Every point I made has actually exposed just how much of an idiot you really are. You came at me like an angry bull and just embarrassed yourself. I almost feel bad. If you want to make an argument then next time get some reading comprehension classes under your belt, and come at me with facts, then you might not make such a **** of yourself.

regarding PK's quote, he does make a very good point, but when I agree with him regarding that comment, it doesn't mean I literally believe that 90% of boxers in this country lead unprofessional lifestyles. Truth is, that figure is plucked from thin air anyway, and my agreement was more about how there is still a lot of backwards thinking in boxing, when compared to other sports. Don't take everything so literally.