Originally posted by chico49erfan:All I'm saying is that steroids doesn't make your hand-eye coordination better. Or give you the best baseball swing ever seen.

It makes you stronger, which increases bat speed, which makes the balls you hit go further, which means you have more homeruns. It's either naive, or blind homerism, to think that steroids doesn't improve hitting.

Or did Brady Anderson forget how to hit homeruns when he stopped using 'roids?

Also, when you're stronger you can also swing a heavier bat.

Yet Barry used the same size bat he did his whole career.

...but did not use the same size helmet.

Really? You have a link to this?

LOL, why would I bother wasting my time finding a link for you? You're so dug into your position that it'd be pointless. You can look it up if you wish.

AKA, I just follow the group think that his head size got bigger, i have no link, and it's an assertion on my part.

Carry on with your strawman.

I agree with you that Bonds is a target because he doesn't play nice with the media. I certainly agree that this trial is a complete joke and waste of time. But we both know Bonds took performance enhancing drugs for the same reason that many others in his era took them: to hit harder and recover faster. Whether his head got bigger or not, we know he took PEDs.

The funny thing is I do believe Bonds took roids, I just laugh at people like LA9erfan who make claims without evidence to back it up. I only posted that to see if he could back up his claims, but he couldn't.

Originally posted by chico49erfan:All I'm saying is that steroids doesn't make your hand-eye coordination better. Or give you the best baseball swing ever seen.

It makes you stronger, which increases bat speed, which makes the balls you hit go further, which means you have more homeruns. It's either naive, or blind homerism, to think that steroids doesn't improve hitting.

Or did Brady Anderson forget how to hit homeruns when he stopped using 'roids?

Also, when you're stronger you can also swing a heavier bat.

Yet Barry used the same size bat he did his whole career.

...but did not use the same size helmet.

Really? You have a link to this?

LOL, why would I bother wasting my time finding a link for you? You're so dug into your position that it'd be pointless. You can look it up if you wish.

AKA, I just follow the group think that his head size got bigger, i have no link, and it's an assertion on my part.

Carry on with your strawman.

I agree with you that Bonds is a target because he doesn't play nice with the media. I certainly agree that this trial is a complete joke and waste of time. But we both know Bonds took performance enhancing drugs for the same reason that many others in his era took them: to hit harder and recover faster. Whether his head got bigger or not, we know he took PEDs.

The funny thing is I do believe Bonds took roids, I just laugh at people like LA9erfan who make claims without evidence to back it up. I only posted that to see if he could back up his claims, but he couldn't.

I laugh at people who demand links in threads for proof and then claim victory when their demands aren't met.

Originally posted by chico49erfan:All I'm saying is that steroids doesn't make your hand-eye coordination better. Or give you the best baseball swing ever seen.

It makes you stronger, which increases bat speed, which makes the balls you hit go further, which means you have more homeruns. It's either naive, or blind homerism, to think that steroids doesn't improve hitting.

Or did Brady Anderson forget how to hit homeruns when he stopped using 'roids?

Also, when you're stronger you can also swing a heavier bat.

Yet Barry used the same size bat he did his whole career.

...but did not use the same size helmet.

Really? You have a link to this?

LOL, why would I bother wasting my time finding a link for you? You're so dug into your position that it'd be pointless. You can look it up if you wish.

AKA, I just follow the group think that his head size got bigger, i have no link, and it's an assertion on my part.

Carry on with your strawman.

I agree with you that Bonds is a target because he doesn't play nice with the media. I certainly agree that this trial is a complete joke and waste of time. But we both know Bonds took performance enhancing drugs for the same reason that many others in his era took them: to hit harder and recover faster. Whether his head got bigger or not, we know he took PEDs.

The funny thing is I do believe Bonds took roids, I just laugh at people like LA9erfan who make claims without evidence to back it up. I only posted that to see if he could back up his claims, but he couldn't.

Originally posted by chico49erfan:All I'm saying is that steroids doesn't make your hand-eye coordination better. Or give you the best baseball swing ever seen.

It makes you stronger, which increases bat speed, which makes the balls you hit go further, which means you have more homeruns. It's either naive, or blind homerism, to think that steroids doesn't improve hitting.

Or did Brady Anderson forget how to hit homeruns when he stopped using 'roids?

Also, when you're stronger you can also swing a heavier bat.

Yet Barry used the same size bat he did his whole career.

...but did not use the same size helmet.

Really? You have a link to this?

LOL, why would I bother wasting my time finding a link for you? You're so dug into your position that it'd be pointless. You can look it up if you wish.

AKA, I just follow the group think that his head size got bigger, i have no link, and it's an assertion on my part.

Carry on with your strawman.

I agree with you that Bonds is a target because he doesn't play nice with the media. I certainly agree that this trial is a complete joke and waste of time. But we both know Bonds took performance enhancing drugs for the same reason that many others in his era took them: to hit harder and recover faster. Whether his head got bigger or not, we know he took PEDs.

The funny thing is I do believe Bonds took roids, I just laugh at people like LA9erfan who make claims without evidence to back it up. I only posted that to see if he could back up his claims, but he couldn't.

When you laugh, do you do so maniacally?

What does that have to do with anything? Go back to thinking Bonds is guilty.

Leave Barry alone!!!! (britney guy) Barry Bonds is the greatest baseball player who ever lived, offense, defense, the total package. he was my hero growing up and the reason i started watching baseball as a youngster. i hope they go far into this investigation and end up looking stupid afterwards. i know he took something whether he knew it or not but he wasnt the only one and if he did it was much later than guys like maguire, sosa, conseco, palmero, giambi and all the others. for the dude who said why did his numbers slow down after he got off the roids, if you watched a giants game in your life you would know they walked him almost every time he went up to bat towards the end of his career. his fielding ability may have diminished because of his bad knees and slowed speed due to aging but as a hitter he never declined. he has the best eye for the ball ive ever seen a monster slugger have. didnt swing at bad pitches and demolished anything even close to a strike. f**k EM BARRY!!! i still got your back G.O.A.T.!!!

Originally posted by chico49erfan:All I'm saying is that steroids doesn't make your hand-eye coordination better. Or give you the best baseball swing ever seen.

It makes you stronger, which increases bat speed, which makes the balls you hit go further, which means you have more homeruns. It's either naive, or blind homerism, to think that steroids doesn't improve hitting.

Or did Brady Anderson forget how to hit homeruns when he stopped using 'roids?

Also, when you're stronger you can also swing a heavier bat.

Yet Barry used the same size bat he did his whole career.

...but did not use the same size helmet.

Really? You have a link to this?

LOL, why would I bother wasting my time finding a link for you? You're so dug into your position that it'd be pointless. You can look it up if you wish.

AKA, I just follow the group think that his head size got bigger, i have no link, and it's an assertion on my part.

Carry on with your strawman.

I agree with you that Bonds is a target because he doesn't play nice with the media. I certainly agree that this trial is a complete joke and waste of time. But we both know Bonds took performance enhancing drugs for the same reason that many others in his era took them: to hit harder and recover faster. Whether his head got bigger or not, we know he took PEDs.

The funny thing is I do believe Bonds took roids, I just laugh at people like LA9erfan who make claims without evidence to back it up. I only posted that to see if he could back up his claims, but he couldn't.

When you laugh, do you do so maniacally?

What does that have to do with anything? Go back to thinking Bonds is guilty.

Can't go back, because I never left. You might want to leave this thread if you can't control your emotions though.

Originally posted by chico49erfan:All I'm saying is that steroids doesn't make your hand-eye coordination better. Or give you the best baseball swing ever seen.

It makes you stronger, which increases bat speed, which makes the balls you hit go further, which means you have more homeruns. It's either naive, or blind homerism, to think that steroids doesn't improve hitting.

Or did Brady Anderson forget how to hit homeruns when he stopped using 'roids?

Also, when you're stronger you can also swing a heavier bat.

Yet Barry used the same size bat he did his whole career.

...but did not use the same size helmet.

Really? You have a link to this?

LOL, why would I bother wasting my time finding a link for you? You're so dug into your position that it'd be pointless. You can look it up if you wish.

AKA, I just follow the group think that his head size got bigger, i have no link, and it's an assertion on my part.

Carry on with your strawman.

I agree with you that Bonds is a target because he doesn't play nice with the media. I certainly agree that this trial is a complete joke and waste of time. But we both know Bonds took performance enhancing drugs for the same reason that many others in his era took them: to hit harder and recover faster. Whether his head got bigger or not, we know he took PEDs.

The funny thing is I do believe Bonds took roids, I just laugh at people like LA9erfan who make claims without evidence to back it up. I only posted that to see if he could back up his claims, but he couldn't.

I laugh at people who demand links in threads for proof and then claim victory when their demands aren't met.

Originally posted by Lockout:Btw, to all the brainless Barry haters, I suggest you read this

Some fun snippets of how the ""unbiased" government handled this:

Quote:A talented high jumper who played college basketball, Novitzky had grown up not far from Bonds on the San Francisco peninsula. Bonds had long been both popular and controversial in the Bay Area. The ballplayer filled stadiums and awed fans, but many locals found him less a Hank Aaron than a modern-day Ty Cobb—his talent matched by his surly demeanor.

Novitzky seemed to take the superstar’s cavalier treatment of the media and fans as a personal affront, and his raw comments about the legendary black baseball player made some colleagues uneasy. Novitzky never expressed irritation at Mark McGwire, Jose Canseco or the numerous other lighter-skinned pro athletes widely suspected of steroid use.

Quote:Just weeks after White went undercover, he, Novitzky and other agents met at the San Jose federal building with the assistant U.S. attorney overseeing the case, Jeff Nedrow. Novitzky named the targets of the investigation: Bonds, Jason Giambi and other major leaguers. Working undercover, White was soon lifting weights with Bonds’s trainer, Greg Anderson. By late May 2003 Novitzky was so thrilled that he boasted to the two drug task-force agents about his hope to participate in a book and become famous. White also overheard the conversation. “He envisioned congressional hearings, book deals and TV,” said the lead task-force agent. “I was uncomfortable with that.”

“It was turned into a publicity stunt,” said another task-force agent, who found the idea that the IRS agent hoped to become a celebrity or profit from the case to be a clear violation of the investigator’s professional code. “We don’t chase headlines.”

Quote:A week before that scheduled meeting Rains said the prosecutor left the following voice mail: “Why don’t you come about two to three hours before the scheduled grand-jury appearance. We’ll let you look at the documents then. I’ll see you at 10 o’clock.”

Rains and his driver arrived early on the morning of December 4, 2003 to pick up Bonds at his Hillsborough home. The next stop was a San Francisco police station more than a mile from the courthouse. The government wanted Novitzky to play chauffeur to Bonds on the day of his grand-jury testimony.

“Novitzky was in his federal car,” said Rains. “Barry and I jumped into the car, and Novitzky said hi.”

The IRS agent drove, Rains in front, Bonds in back. “Novitzky was fuming,” recalled Rains. “He was all hot and bothered. Barry was saying, ‘Mike, we can’t trust these guys.’”

When the sedan arrived at the federal building, “Novitzky did this 20- to 30-second wait,” said Rains. The cameras pushed in. Rains said Bonds started screaming at Novitzky, “Get this motherf**king car moving! This is f**king bulls**t!”

Quote:

On October 16, 2003 Novitzky’s investigation took a bizarre turn. Behind the scenes, unknown to the public following the story, the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA) opened an investigation of none other than Novitzky and his fellow agents. Six hundred of the approximately $60,000 in cash seized from Anderson was missing. Neither Novitzky nor the other IRS agents implicated would cooperate with the TIGTA investigators without lawyers.

Coincidentally, that very same day, Novitzky, under oath, gave his first testimony for the grand jury about BALCO:

You can hate the prosecutors, the media, etc, etc all you want we all know Barry Bonds guilty of doing steriods.

This is a witch hunt, a waste of money, and I don't want to see Bond's in jail, but call a spade a spade. He's a roider.

What did ANYTHING I posted have to do with whether he did steroids or not?

You called Barry Bonds haters brainless. Why do people hate Bonds? Mostly because he's a roider who cheated his way into the record books.

I don't want to hear how roids don't generate an increase in HR's. Because I'm supposed to believe that it's a coincedence that all of the sudden 50 HR's is once again an accomplishment.

Yet they don't hate Mark Mcgwire or Sammy Sosa as much. Why? Because he was a "bad guy" to the media? Yet the public has already forgiven Michael Vick for slaughtering dogs, but Barry is the biggest villain in sports.

Anyways, the link and quotes I provided weren't supposed to prove he didn't do roids. it was supposed to show all the people in this thread who said he was "guilty" that he's far from it. The charges aren't whether he did Roids or not. it's whether he lied to the grand jury.

I don't care to argue about how he's portrayed by the media. It is what it is. They never liked him and they were glad to kick as many times as possible.

He's guilty of roiding and of perjury too. You don't honestly believe that he thought it was the plaxseed oil, do you?

I agree he'll be found innocent though. They don't have his dealer so all evidence is circumstancial. Roger should have taken notes. That's the only guy that you have to ensure that has your back.

Originally posted by chico49erfan:All I'm saying is that steroids doesn't make your hand-eye coordination better. Or give you the best baseball swing ever seen.

It makes you stronger, which increases bat speed, which makes the balls you hit go further, which means you have more homeruns. It's either naive, or blind homerism, to think that steroids doesn't improve hitting.

Or did Brady Anderson forget how to hit homeruns when he stopped using 'roids?

Also, when you're stronger you can also swing a heavier bat.

Yet Barry used the same size bat he did his whole career.

...but did not use the same size helmet.

Really? You have a link to this?

LOL, why would I bother wasting my time finding a link for you? You're so dug into your position that it'd be pointless. You can look it up if you wish.

AKA, I just follow the group think that his head size got bigger, i have no link, and it's an assertion on my part.

Carry on with your strawman.

I agree with you that Bonds is a target because he doesn't play nice with the media. I certainly agree that this trial is a complete joke and waste of time. But we both know Bonds took performance enhancing drugs for the same reason that many others in his era took them: to hit harder and recover faster. Whether his head got bigger or not, we know he took PEDs.

The funny thing is I do believe Bonds took roids, I just laugh at people like LA9erfan who make claims without evidence to back it up. I only posted that to see if he could back up his claims, but he couldn't.

When you laugh, do you do so maniacally?

What does that have to do with anything? Go back to thinking Bonds is guilty.

Can't go back, because I never left. You might want to leave this thread if you can't control your emotions though.

You can tell emotions through the internet? You got a special power, kid.

Originally posted by Lockout:Btw, to all the brainless Barry haters, I suggest you read this

Some fun snippets of how the ""unbiased" government handled this:

Quote:A talented high jumper who played college basketball, Novitzky had grown up not far from Bonds on the San Francisco peninsula. Bonds had long been both popular and controversial in the Bay Area. The ballplayer filled stadiums and awed fans, but many locals found him less a Hank Aaron than a modern-day Ty Cobb—his talent matched by his surly demeanor.

Novitzky seemed to take the superstar’s cavalier treatment of the media and fans as a personal affront, and his raw comments about the legendary black baseball player made some colleagues uneasy. Novitzky never expressed irritation at Mark McGwire, Jose Canseco or the numerous other lighter-skinned pro athletes widely suspected of steroid use.

Quote:Just weeks after White went undercover, he, Novitzky and other agents met at the San Jose federal building with the assistant U.S. attorney overseeing the case, Jeff Nedrow. Novitzky named the targets of the investigation: Bonds, Jason Giambi and other major leaguers. Working undercover, White was soon lifting weights with Bonds’s trainer, Greg Anderson. By late May 2003 Novitzky was so thrilled that he boasted to the two drug task-force agents about his hope to participate in a book and become famous. White also overheard the conversation. “He envisioned congressional hearings, book deals and TV,” said the lead task-force agent. “I was uncomfortable with that.”

“It was turned into a publicity stunt,” said another task-force agent, who found the idea that the IRS agent hoped to become a celebrity or profit from the case to be a clear violation of the investigator’s professional code. “We don’t chase headlines.”

Quote:A week before that scheduled meeting Rains said the prosecutor left the following voice mail: “Why don’t you come about two to three hours before the scheduled grand-jury appearance. We’ll let you look at the documents then. I’ll see you at 10 o’clock.”

Rains and his driver arrived early on the morning of December 4, 2003 to pick up Bonds at his Hillsborough home. The next stop was a San Francisco police station more than a mile from the courthouse. The government wanted Novitzky to play chauffeur to Bonds on the day of his grand-jury testimony.

“Novitzky was in his federal car,” said Rains. “Barry and I jumped into the car, and Novitzky said hi.”

The IRS agent drove, Rains in front, Bonds in back. “Novitzky was fuming,” recalled Rains. “He was all hot and bothered. Barry was saying, ‘Mike, we can’t trust these guys.’”

When the sedan arrived at the federal building, “Novitzky did this 20- to 30-second wait,” said Rains. The cameras pushed in. Rains said Bonds started screaming at Novitzky, “Get this motherf**king car moving! This is f**king bulls**t!”

Quote:

On October 16, 2003 Novitzky’s investigation took a bizarre turn. Behind the scenes, unknown to the public following the story, the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA) opened an investigation of none other than Novitzky and his fellow agents. Six hundred of the approximately $60,000 in cash seized from Anderson was missing. Neither Novitzky nor the other IRS agents implicated would cooperate with the TIGTA investigators without lawyers.

Coincidentally, that very same day, Novitzky, under oath, gave his first testimony for the grand jury about BALCO:

You can hate the prosecutors, the media, etc, etc all you want we all know Barry Bonds guilty of doing steriods.

This is a witch hunt, a waste of money, and I don't want to see Bond's in jail, but call a spade a spade. He's a roider.

What did ANYTHING I posted have to do with whether he did steroids or not?

You called Barry Bonds haters brainless. Why do people hate Bonds? Mostly because he's a roider who cheated his way into the record books.

I don't want to hear how roids don't generate an increase in HR's. Because I'm supposed to believe that it's a coincedence that all of the sudden 50 HR's is once again an accomplishment.

Yet they don't hate Mark Mcgwire or Sammy Sosa as much. Why? Because he was a "bad guy" to the media? Yet the public has already forgiven Michael Vick for slaughtering dogs, but Barry is the biggest villain in sports.

Anyways, the link and quotes I provided weren't supposed to prove he didn't do roids. it was supposed to show all the people in this thread who said he was "guilty" that he's far from it. The charges aren't whether he did Roids or not. it's whether he lied to the grand jury.

I don't care to argue about how he's portrayed by the media. It is what it is. They never liked him and they were glad to kick as many times as possible.

He's guilty of roiding and of perjury too. You don't honestly believe that he thought it was the plaxseed oil, do you?

I agree he'll be found innocent though. They don't have his dealer so all evidence is circumstancial. Roger should have taken notes. That's the only guy that you have to ensure that has your back.

I'm 50-50 on whether he knew it was roids or not. The article also shows the questioning at the grand jury was "questionable at best".

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