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Well here we are, a little movie with some instances of lag, different examples of it, different effects and problems that it causes. I've only frapsed a handful of movies from the Ettens over the last few years or so, I mainly used it to record by kin's raid progression, from Watcher through to ToO etc, but occasionally in the Moors as well. Even looking back at some old clips I made, the lag is there. But it is more serious now I feel, so last few days and weeks I've been frapsing whatever I could to capture the lag. Lol usually the lag is already over by the time I hit the fraps button. But I recorded a few - including that monster lag spike at DG a few nights ago.

So, *LAG* vs *Revealing who your RAT is* (and creeps healing through you), and you choose lag. OK. I do not.
Why dont you heal through our RAT when you know it? Its too easy or..?

I don't believe that targeting directly or through the RAT is the answer.

I have been in raids where skill lag made it impossible to play in all of the following situations:

* One RAT and everyone targeting through them
* One RAT and everyone targeting the target directly
* Multiple RATS
* No RATs

I've also had huge skill lag when I wasn't even *in* the raid and was just in the middle of a huge fight.

There is just no correlation between RAT approach and skill lag. There *is* a correlation between raw number of characters on the screen and skill lag.

Now, I *do* believe that targeting a character with loads of effects on them cause *local lag* ie it stresses your system. This is easy to tell - does your FPS drop? If it does, it's over-stressing your system.

The lag Turbine needs to sort out is when you have (1) 0% loss and <100ms latency (=rock steady connection), (2) steady 40+ FPS (=rock steady system) and yet you *still* get huge skill delay. That is server lag. That is what has been killing action.

Well here we are, a little movie with some instances of lag, different examples of it, different effects and problems that it causes.

Some epic server lag there, especially the bit around 5:00.

You are also running with very low FPS in some of these fights and there's stuff you could do to help that - you don't need to see every single special effect for example, nor have full names/titles/kinships on (I only ever run with just first names up).

You are also running with very low FPS in some of these fights and there's stuff you could do to help that - you don't need to see every single special effect for example, nor have full names/titles/kinships on (I only ever run with just first names up).

Aye indeed, and that is as Mreza said and Botoo said, due to the huge amount of "special effects, buffs/debuffs/gearswapping" etc that freeps carry - especially LM effects, they are crazy, and the worst offenders. This kind of lag IS far worse on creepside, all creeps have to suffer those conditions. Creeps just do not carry the same effects/buffs/properties, so freeps (I imagine) just don't get the same kind of problems. Not in the fraps movies I've seen of freep-perspective pvp.

This is what I mean, these rows of buffs. By comparison a creep may have 1 row, 2 rows of effects for the combat system to compute through, so when you target me your FPS won't grind to a halt. And believe me, removing floaty names and titles/kinships has very little effect on this, in fact it seems to do sod all when trying to fight targets buffed to high heaven and back, as pictured above, which is most freep targets a lot of the time.

So the server lag, it happens, it's the same both sides. Nothing we can do about it. The combat lag, which your system has to chug along to process, is primarily (I think) a creep problem. And to have to dial down all settings to a bare minimum quality, where it looks like you might be playing Doom circa 1998, isn't that just ****! We shouldn't bloody have to!

By comparison a creep may have 1 row, 2 rows of effects for the combat system to compute through, so when you target me your FPS won't grind to a halt.

Yes, I buy that. It also explains why freep healing classes complain of combat lag more than dps classes - they are also targeting freeps with rows of buffs/debuffs.

A lot of freeps (and, I guess, creeps too) don't do basic things like turning off debuff icons for the entire raid.

It isn't the answer to server/skill lag and rubber-banding though. Low FPS can make life ugly, but it won't usually prevent you playing altogether and there are *some* things you can do to help yourself.

I'm banging this "different types of lag" drum because unless players are really, really clear about the problem we're complaining about, it's easier for Turbine to ignore. A whole bunch of unrelated things, some completely outside Turbine's control, get lumped together as "lag". But the problem we have at the moment is really specific, not part of the ongoing balance between our systems/connections and the graphics demands of the game.

I hope I'm not asking for too much, but is it possible you make a list of settings that reduce the lag? Which options should I disable/enable during a raid vs raid fight?

Well, first off I have a 77MB fibre connection, 16GB of RAM and the game installed on an SSD. That all makes a huge difference.

In terms of settings, I:

* turn all shadows off
* set frill distance to 'disable'
* uncheck distant imposters
* turn off high quality lighting
* turn off 3D portraits
* set atmospherics detail to low
* set material detail to low
* set texture cache size to maximum
* set player crowd quality to minimum
* set sync to refresh rate to "auto" (there is no point asking your gfx card to pump out frames faster than your monitor refreshes)

I always have landscape and object draw distance set to max. After that, I gradually turn down Texture Details and Texture Filtering depending on how busy the action is.

In social options make sure "show only dispellable effects" is checked.

In UI settings, I uncheck everything under "special effects options". This turns off a lot of ground special effects but also stops you seeing induction circles so it does have downsides. However I found this made a significant difference to my framerate.

You need to aim for an FPS over 30. Below that and things will look choppy. At 30-40 it will be perfectly smooth. Most monitors only refresh 60 times/second so an FPS higher than that does nothing other than burn electricity and wear out your GFX card faster.

* turn all shadows off
* set frill distance to 'disable'
* uncheck distant imposters
* turn off high quality lighting
* turn off 3D portraits
* set atmospherics detail to low
* set material detail to low
* set texture cache size to maximum
* set player crowd quality to minimum
* set sync to refresh rate to "auto" (there is no point asking your gfx card to pump out frames faster than your monitor refreshes)

I always have landscape and object draw distance set to max. After that, I gradually turn down Texture Details and Texture Filtering depending on how busy the action is.

In social options make sure "show only dispellable effects" is checked.

In UI settings, I uncheck everything under "special effects options". This turns off a lot of ground special effects but also stops you seeing induction circles so it does have downsides. However I found this made a significant difference to my framerate.

You need to aim for an FPS over 30. Below that and things will look choppy. At 30-40 it will be perfectly smooth. Most monitors only refresh 60 times/second so an FPS higher than that does nothing other than burn electricity and wear out your GFX card faster.

++++THIS

This is a really constructive and helpful post mate. I'd like to see more posts like this on forums and less crying
I have most of these things done already as I found a similar post a while ago with screenies as a visual guide to the things to do to help reduce lag. It certainly helped my fiance's warg experience and she now enjoys big fights rather than just slinking off to HH or logging altogether. I was going to search for it and link it after wardy's post but you beat me to it with some excellent information. I think this will help many people have a smoother and more enjoyable game.

All we have to do now is lobby turbine to employ more hamsters and fix the server lag that is very well highlighted in Uz's video and becoming increasingly worse as updates progress and more effects are added to an already burgeoned system.

putting draw distance works nice aswell, but I would only recommend that if you DO follow the shield or the skull, and always stay closer than 10-20m to it, if u dont, u might just not be able to see them. Im this situation u will have to entrust your eyes intirely to the raid leader and the rat, therefor this option isnt rly recommended for rats nor raid leaders (or other marked persons)

And talking about the action this eve, it was good (especially for the creeps ofc) and I hope to lead a bit more on haruno in the future, but I hope creeps realise the ON the last few weeks and I hope it doesnt encourage more freeps to flip creeps. If it does, I would like to arrange some agreements with some creep raid leaders before I forcefully have to keep all the freeps in gv as soon creeps get a ridiculous amount of players which both the server nor the freeps seem to handle well. I got some old SoA tactics in mind, which all the creeps not in the main raid really will dislike, so I hope it wont come to that

Lets try to keep the action nice and healthy till HD will get released so we got something to do while we wait in anexiety

I know what motivates freeps to come out and play. Hate.
You have controlled your fear. Now, release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy us.
Than come and join us, lets ON the freep side once again, so they loose their money investment in game.

I know what motivates freeps to come out and play. Hate.
You have controlled your fear. Now, release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy us.
Than come and join us, lets ON the freep side once again, so they loose their money investment in game.

BRING BACK THE FLAME WARS.

we can ofc just all log creep and make 3 raids to camp solo freeps that are riding out gv
With the current fliprate we prob only have to wait a week or so for that:

I saw that happening Ory, but:
1st time you were not alone there (probs solo, but not the only freep there), I noticed you doing emote-jumps while other were fighting but you can't blame anyone if you got attacked there and then. I avoided you but even then you might got hit by an aoe.
2nd and 3rd time you did your emote-jumping in front of OC and aggroed npc's, imho it was clear you weren't fighting with those unknown 'weapons' you wielded, but OC or Etten in itself is not the best place for doing emote dances, don't blame others if they don't want to play along with possible peaceful actions, especially not with a froup going round closeby.

My post was meant to be lighthearted, as was my messing about with the pretzels... i found it hilarious and hope others got a bit of amusement out of it too

quite fun to watch really.. Wish i could play like that.. In a fight like that id be happy if skill lag below 5-10 sec!

It's not as noticeable because the speed is 2x. A lot of the time I'm just mashing a button trying to get the skill to execute. There's a by now quite normal delay between switching targets of 2-3s. If I don't wait my heals go to my previous target.
You're in luck though, the lag video with some exceptional excerpts from Sunday's and Monday's raids just uploaded. This one is real-time. Keep your eyes on the skill bar!

Very nice Vel, that night was bad for lag all night, and for both sides, Lag is getting bad now, but not far for HD so........there will not be much raids vs raids. Also thanks for the raid last night freep!

Very nice Vel, that night was bad for lag all night, and for both sides, Lag is getting bad now, but not far for HD so........there will not be much raids vs raids. Also thanks for the raid last night freep!

Thanks Ug

I think its best to avoid keeps as much as possible with big numbers or ON, you might think npcs will help u, but this doesnt help as much as the lag will ruin, so I think its better to fight closer to the ON's gy than a ON's keep

I think its best to avoid keeps as much as possible with big numbers or ON, you might think npcs will help u, but this doesnt help as much as the lag will ruin, so I think its better to fight closer to the ON's gy than a ON's keep

you are very right here, best not to fight in keeps, but if there a raid comes into a keep and your in it you can't help about that.