There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church. When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

vpb:There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church. When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.

Weaver95:vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church. When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.

Weaver95:vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church. When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.

Shut up! I can't hear them bemoaning the fact that consenting adults want to get married!

vpb:Weaver95: vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church. When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.

The same way they did before.

People who want to believe will. They don't care about facts.

It's even worse than they don't care about facts, they're openly hostile to the facts. Nothing pisses off a catholic more than pointing out all the little boy f*cking that goes on in the church.

swaniefrmreddeer:vpb: Weaver95: vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church. When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.

The same way they did before.

People who want to believe will. They don't care about facts.

It's even worse than they don't care about facts, they're openly hostile to the facts. Nothing pisses off a catholic more than pointing out all the little boy f*cking that goes on in the church.

Yeah but even the true believers have a serious problem. All the lies and corruption make it exceptionally difficult to use any sort of 'moral leverage' against undecided voters....if ever there were such a thing left in this country. That's what I'm wondering...how can the church claim they are doing the work of god and tell women that abortion is a mortal sin...lwhile at the same time the church is covering up decades of kiddie rape?

Weaver95:swaniefrmreddeer: vpb: Weaver95: vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church. When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.

The same way they did before.

People who want to believe will. They don't care about facts.

It's even worse than they don't care about facts, they're openly hostile to the facts. Nothing pisses off a catholic more than pointing out all the little boy f*cking that goes on in the church.

Yeah but even the true believers have a serious problem. All the lies and corruption make it exceptionally difficult to use any sort of 'moral leverage' against undecided voters....if ever there were such a thing left in this country. That's what I'm wondering...how can the church claim they are doing the work of god and tell women that abortion is a mortal sin...lwhile at the same time the church is covering up decades of kiddie rape?

Cythraul:Weaver95: swaniefrmreddeer: vpb: Weaver95: vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church. When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.

The same way they did before.

People who want to believe will. They don't care about facts.

It's even worse than they don't care about facts, they're openly hostile to the facts. Nothing pisses off a catholic more than pointing out all the little boy f*cking that goes on in the church.

Yeah but even the true believers have a serious problem. All the lies and corruption make it exceptionally difficult to use any sort of 'moral leverage' against undecided voters....if ever there were such a thing left in this country. That's what I'm wondering...how can the church claim they are doing the work of god and tell women that abortion is a mortal sin...lwhile at the same time the church is covering up decades of kiddie rape?

EvilEgg:BunkoSquad: Weaver95: how can the church claim they are doing the work of god and tell women that abortion is a mortal sin...lwhile at the same time the church is covering up decades of kiddie rape?

Weaver95:Cythraul: Weaver95: swaniefrmreddeer: vpb: Weaver95: vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church. When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.

The same way they did before.

People who want to believe will. They don't care about facts.

It's even worse than they don't care about facts, they're openly hostile to the facts. Nothing pisses off a catholic more than pointing out all the little boy f*cking that goes on in the church.

Yeah but even the true believers have a serious problem. All the lies and corruption make it exceptionally difficult to use any sort of 'moral leverage' against undecided voters....if ever there were such a thing left in this country. That's what I'm wondering...how can the church claim they are doing the work of god and tell women that abortion is a mortal sin...lwhile at the same time the church is covering up decades of kiddie rape?

No I'm seriously pondering how the church expects to get out of the mess they made for themselves. I honestly don't see a way out of it.

Well, as others have stated, I think there will be enough 'true believers' around to keep the Catholic Church in business for quite some time to come. If the church can finally crack down on this scandal and put an end to it, the passage of time will see the Church retain, if not even increase its wealth and influence.

Even if they don't purge themselves of the kid farkers, I think they have enough followers to provide them with the resources to pay out for court cases for decades to come.

Releasing this information was the wrong thing to do. The Church has already forgiven those poor misguided children for their acts of homosexuality. There is no need for society to punish them further.

Cythraul:Weaver95: swaniefrmreddeer: vpb: Weaver95: vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church. When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.

The same way they did before.

People who want to believe will. They don't care about facts.

It's even worse than they don't care about facts, they're openly hostile to the facts. Nothing pisses off a catholic more than pointing out all the little boy f*cking that goes on in the church.

Yeah but even the true believers have a serious problem. All the lies and corruption make it exceptionally difficult to use any sort of 'moral leverage' against undecided voters....if ever there were such a thing left in this country. That's what I'm wondering...how can the church claim they are doing the work of god and tell women that abortion is a mortal sin...lwhile at the same time the church is covering up decades of kiddie rape?

swaniefrmreddeer:EvilEgg: BunkoSquad: Weaver95: how can the church claim they are doing the work of god and tell women that abortion is a mortal sin...lwhile at the same time the church is covering up decades of kiddie rape?

Well, define "horrific", for a start. I'm not advocating for pedophilia, but it's a fact that many, if not most young boys exploring their sexuality aren't exactly likely to turn down a free diddle from an older man, why would they?

I mean, if its chase-them-down-the-street-and--drag-them-down bloody screaming sodomy, obviously that's violent and awful. But getting a blowie or a handy from some old creep?

Noooott exactly the end of the world for a 12 year old. More like a bonus.

There's a reason these thing aren't reported until much later, when the little perverts gets older and uglier and can't get laid anymore, and turn those feelings of ambiguity into misdirected anger.

IdBeCrazyIf:swaniefrmreddeer: EvilEgg: BunkoSquad: Weaver95: how can the church claim they are doing the work of god and tell women that abortion is a mortal sin...lwhile at the same time the church is covering up decades of kiddie rape?

I would love for my Irish and Italian Catholic in-laws to read this article. Somehow, they won't believe it... and/or brush it off.

/ They think I'm not a whole person because I don't go to church.// At one point, they blamed me for her daughter not going to church... even though she has told them a number of times that she was not going long before she met me.

willfullyobscure:Well, define "horrific", for a start. I'm not advocating for pedophilia, but it's a fact that many, if not most young boys exploring their sexuality aren't exactly likely to turn down a free diddle from an older man, why would they?

I mean, if its chase-them-down-the-street-and--drag-them-down bloody screaming sodomy, obviously that's violent and awful. But getting a blowie or a handy from some old creep?

Noooott exactly the end of the world for a 12 year old. More like a bonus.

There's a reason these thing aren't reported until much later, when the little perverts gets older and uglier and can't get laid anymore, and turn those feelings of ambiguity into misdirected anger.

You're fishing with an explosive harpoon. I need you at "baited hooks."

vernonFL:Seriously, how is this NOT an international criminal conspiracy?

This is an interesting argument. I'm not a lawyer or anything, so would any prosecutor who had evidence of a child abuse case within their district with that statute of limitations be able to bring RICO charges against the Catholic hierarchy, or would you need federal prosecutors?

FWIW I think the moment we can prove the Catholic church not only protected these creeps, but also shuffled monies to avoid payouts to victims and lawyers, is the moment we pull their tax-free status and go after them with RICO charges.

These people are covering up child abuse and in some cases rape. Book 'em Dan-O.

Well, catholicism is a religion loosely based off the scriptures, but it has been diluted with enough paganism that perhaps they are not even close to having a relationship with the Holy Spirit to guide their lives, and this is evidence of that. Perhaps that is one of the secondary reasons for the cover up: they do not want to look in front of the other Christians as if their faith is not real.

All religions are bad. A true faith or relationship with your creator will save you.

elgrancerdo:Well, catholicism is a religion loosely based off the scriptures, but it has been diluted with enough paganism that perhaps they are not even close to having a relationship with the Holy Spirit to guide their lives, and this is evidence of that. Perhaps that is one of the secondary reasons for the cover up: they do not want to look in front of the other Christians as if their faith is not real.

All religions are bad. A true faith or relationship with your creator will save you.

elgrancerdo:Well, catholicism is a religion loosely based off the scriptures, but it has been diluted with enough paganism that perhaps they are not even close to having a relationship with the Holy Spirit to guide their lives, and this is evidence of that. Perhaps that is one of the secondary reasons for the cover up: they do not want to look in front of the other Christians as if their faith is not real.

All religions are bad. A true faith or relationship with your creator will save you.

Poe's law, but I think you're serious. Run now before the pagans sacrifice you to their goOOoOoOOoOds

Weaver95:Kinda puts the church's political views in a new light. How can they claim any sort of moral authority after details like this surface?

They can't even claim to be persecuted. This is hard evidence of a massive cover up organized from high up the food chain.

The short & simple answer to your question is that Catholic theology simply assumes that all sins are forgivable. When the hierarchy found out about things like this, the priest was most likely ordered to confess, and admonished not to do it again. It simply didn't occur to anybody that these priests had unfixable psychological issues.

As for the morality of the thing, it's really not that much different from the fact that it simply didn't occur to 19th century southerners that owning black people was morally wrong, or how it didn't occur to people until recently that persecuting people for being gay was morally wrong. It was a different time. It wasn't all that long ago when nobody would bat an eye if they saw someone slapping their kids around in public either.

This is not to excuse any of this, but the point is that church leaders held attitudes toward this sort of thing that do not belong to this era. The Catholic church always tends to run quite a bit behind the rest of American society when determining what's morally acceptable and what's not.

Weaver95:Kinda puts the church's political views in a new light. How can they claim any sort of moral authority after details like this surface?

They can't even claim to be persecuted. This is hard evidence of a massive cover up organized from high up the food chain.

Yeah, the fact it happens is almost inevitable, the problem is when they cover it up and deal with it internally - because they are now complicit in the crime so the punishment can't be very significant (plus they have no real standing to apply any significant punishments even if the criminal they are protecting couldn't blackmail them into letting him off lightly). So now you have a situation where a powerful organization is going to protect these guys, which actually makes it a positively attractive job if you are of that persuasion.

pdieten:As for the morality of the thing, it's really not that much different from the fact that it simply didn't occur to 19th century southerners that owning black people was morally wrong, or how it didn't occur to people until recently that persecuting people for being gay was morally wrong. It was a different time. It wasn't all that long ago when nobody would bat an eye if they saw someone slapping their kids around in public either.

In what recent era was it considered not immoral to sexually abuse children?

swaniefrmreddeer:vpb: Weaver95: vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church. When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.

The same way they did before.

People who want to believe will. They don't care about facts.

It's even worse than they don't care about facts, they're openly hostile to the facts. Nothing pisses off a catholic more than pointing out all the little boy f*cking that goes on in the church.

They keep making this ridiculous distinction between "The Church" and their "Faith." Like the faith isn't responsible for the actions of the catholic church, so they can keep believing in Jesus and Mary and all the saints and going to mass, etc., because that's somehow separate from the church. But there is no greater control over a faith in any religion than the control of the faith by the catholic church.

People forget that the catholic church was the *original* christian faith, and decided even what writings would be considered part of the bible and which ones would be be forever "apocrypha." That's how much power the church has over the faith. What people know of their faith came from the church in the first place.

There is no distinction -- if you are a practicing catholic, you support these pedophile farks. It's truly that simple.

Nurglitch:willfullyobscure: Well, define "horrific", for a start. I'm not advocating for pedophilia, but it's a fact that many, if not most young boys exploring their sexuality aren't exactly likely to turn down a free diddle from an older man, why would they?

I mean, if its chase-them-down-the-street-and--drag-them-down bloody screaming sodomy, obviously that's violent and awful. But getting a blowie or a handy from some old creep?

Noooott exactly the end of the world for a 12 year old. More like a bonus.

There's a reason these thing aren't reported until much later, when the little perverts gets older and uglier and can't get laid anymore, and turn those feelings of ambiguity into misdirected anger.

You're fishing with an explosive harpoon. I need you at "baited hooks."