Myths about Monogamy and Relationships: (Notes from 'The Ethical Slut')

We have to be careful to question deep-seated beliefs that are current in our society and that often hidden in the language we use.

Myth one. Long-term monogamous relationships are the only real relationships
The authors claim that lifetime monogamy is a relatively new phenomenon.(Note 1) There is little that cannot be achieved without being in a monogamous relationship. We are made to feel there is something wrong with us if we are not monogamous. We think meeting a Mister or Mrs Right will automatically solve all our problems and make us complete. A corollary of this belief is that when you love someone, you automatically lose interest in others and will ne
[02:32 PM] Bruce Mowbray: omg. sorry!
[02:32 PM] Agatha Macbeth: Very interesting Bruce :p
[02:32 PM] Bruce Mowbray copy/pasted the whole article to keep for future reading and look what happened!
[02:32 PM] Zen Arado: so we don't agree with the last part of that?
[02:32 PM] Bruce Mowbray: I pasted it in the wrong box!!
[02:32 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: No problem :)
[02:33 PM] Bruce Mowbray is powerfully embarrassed.
[02:33 PM] Zen Arado: about loving one means losing interst in others?
[02:33 PM] Zen Arado: np Bruce
[02:33 PM] Arisia Vita: you are among friends Bruce....
[02:33 PM] Arisia Vita: let that realization banish your embarrassment
[02:33 PM] Bruce Mowbray: Have we talked about Myth 2 enough -- I think that romantic love was invented about the time of the Renaissance -- but fades in and out with the times.
[02:34 PM] Zen Arado: and is not a good basis for partnership?
[02:34 PM] Zen Arado: I agree with that somewhat
[02:34 PM] Bruce Mowbray: Mass media both fuels and depletes the myth of romantic love.
[02:34 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: :)
[02:34 PM] Zen Arado: but maybe it is necessary to draw ppl together
[02:35 PM] Bruce Mowbray: My mother (who was very unsatisfied by traditional marriage) equated romantic love with gun powder -- She said they were the two worst inventions of human-kind.
[02:35 PM] Bruce Mowbray: and equally destructive.
[02:35 PM] Agatha Macbeth: and equally explosive
[02:35 PM] Agatha Macbeth: snap
[02:35 PM] Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
[02:35 PM] Agatha Macbeth: sorta
[02:36 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: I think romantic or courtly love has been around as long as we've had humans...and it's a very good basis for a relationship for some, but probably not something really experienced by most
[02:36 PM] Zen Arado: but would couples ever get it together without it?
[02:36 PM] Zen Arado: but it doesn't last does it?
[02:36 PM] Bruce Mowbray is happy and gratefu to have loved a few times -- and quite deeply and passionately -- but is happy that is now "out of his system."
[02:36 PM] Agatha Macbeth grins
[02:36 PM] Zen Arado: or it turns into something deeper
[02:36 PM] Zen Arado: nice Bruce
[02:36 PM] Bruce Mowbray: ;-) [grins back]
[02:36 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: I think there are varieties of relationship styles...different things work for different people...you have to take almost an individual approach; as long as what you're doing is good for you and doesn't hurt anyone, then you're doing the right thing
[02:36 PM] Zen Arado: well said Violet
[02:37 PM] Bruce Mowbray: Yayyyy! One vote for diversity from Atari!
[02:37 PM] Zen Arado: so we can have many approaches not just momogamy
[02:37 PM] Zen Arado: which I tend to agree with
[02:37 PM] Zen Arado: what about Myth three. Sexual desire is a destructive force.
It lures people to their doom, and destroys families, supposedly.
[02:38 PM] Zen Arado: it can be destructive
[02:38 PM] Agatha Macbeth: Doesn't it create them as well?
[02:38 PM] Zen Arado: ?
[02:38 PM] Bruce Mowbray decides to change t-shirt to "Allow me diversity, or give me death" - (on the back)
[02:38 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: Ags :)
[02:38 PM] Zen Arado: ha ha yes
[02:38 PM] Agatha Macbeth: :)
[02:38 PM] Bruce Mowbray: Of course sexual energy is sometimes used destructively -- as is every other sort of energy.
[02:38 PM] Bruce Mowbray: but that doesn't mean every apple in the barrel is bad.
[02:39 PM] Zen Arado: but unleashed outside the mnoganous unit what happens?
[02:39 PM] Agatha Macbeth: Could be what they mean by a 'two-edged sword'
[02:39 PM] Zen Arado: thnk that's what they are getting at
[02:39 PM] Zen Arado: the dangers of promiscuity
[02:39 PM] Bruce Mowbray: The "container" of monogamous marriage guarantees nothing.
[02:39 PM] Zen Arado: etc
[02:40 PM] Zen Arado: agree Bruce
[02:40 PM] Bruce Mowbray: It's like saying, Here is a beautiful picture frame (therefore no ugly pictures will be framed in it?????) --- Ha!
[02:40 PM] Zen Arado: can be stifling too maybe
[02:40 PM] Zen Arado: yeh :))))
[02:40 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: Mm
[02:41 PM] Zen Arado: Myth four. Loving someone makes it okay to control his or her behaviour.
It may make people secure, but the authors do not believe that anyone has the right, much less the obligation, to control the behaviour of another functioning adult. This is exhibited in Hollywood type behaviour, where the hero punches out a rival. Also to the belief that “sleeping with someone else is something you do to your partner, not for yourself.”
[02:41 PM] Zen Arado: controlling behaviour is not as prevalent though nowadays?
[02:41 PM] Bruce Mowbray on a deeper level -- sometime I'd like to explore whatever it is that turns basic energy (of any kind) toward creative outlets or toward destructive ones.
[02:42 PM] Bruce Mowbray: No -- NOTHING make that OK.
[02:42 PM] Zen Arado: but some women still like men to be a bit macho?
[02:42 PM] Bruce Mowbray: ecept perhaps for severe disability -- maybe psychosis....
[02:42 PM] Bruce Mowbray: except*
[02:43 PM] Bruce Mowbray: The real danger, I feel, is that controlling behavior can get very subtle -- manipulative.... etc.
[02:43 PM] Bruce Mowbray: MACHO does not have to be the man's problem -- it can also be the partner's.
[02:43 PM] Zen Arado: yes and women can do that too
[02:43 PM] Zen Arado: even physical abuse to men
[02:44 PM] Zen Arado: yes
[02:44 PM] Bruce Mowbray throws away pillow and sits on hands.
[02:44 PM] Zen Arado: Myth Five. Jealousy is inevitable and impossible to overcome.
There is a vast range of behaviours that can lead to jealousy. Some believe that we have to succumb to it. The authors feel that jealousy can be bad, but not intolerable, and that the factors that lead to it can be unlearned.
[02:44 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: If you need your partner to behave a certain way, to be a certain way, do you really care about them as they are?
[02:45 PM] Zen Arado: jealousy can be greater in polyamourous relationships
[02:45 PM] Zen Arado: good point Violet
[02:45 PM] Zen Arado: sorry..am I hammering throigh these too fast?
[02:45 PM] Bruce Mowbray: excellent point, Atari.
[02:45 PM] Agatha Macbeth takes away Zen's hammer
[02:45 PM] Zen Arado: :)
[02:45 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: :)
[02:46 PM] Bruce Mowbray - as a gesture of peace - give pillow to aggers.
[02:46 PM] Agatha Macbeth: Okay Thor...
[02:46 PM] Agatha Macbeth: ty Brucie
[02:46 PM] Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
[02:46 PM] Bruce Mowbray: ty!
[02:46 PM] Zen Arado: newly elected to Godhood ...
[02:47 PM] Agatha Macbeth: The winged helmet suits you ;-)
[02:47 PM] Bruce Mowbray: NOTHING is impossible to overcome -- if you remember that diversity is an option.
[02:47 PM] Zen Arado: there is a whole chapter devoted to jealouy in the book
[02:47 PM] Zen Arado: some useful stuff
[02:47 PM] Agatha Macbeth: Good heavens
[02:47 PM] Zen Arado: techniques for dealing with it
[02:48 PM] Zen Arado: maybe we could come back to that?
[02:48 PM] Bruce Mowbray: I can't recall feeling jealousy (or envy) in several decades.
[02:48 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: I think jealousy is okay...but being consumed by it, or feeling it all the time, isn't
[02:48 PM] Agatha Macbeth: Good for you Bruce
[02:48 PM] Bruce Mowbray: afk for a minute -- going to refill glass of gin.
[02:48 PM] Agatha Macbeth: (hic)
[02:48 PM] Zen Arado: you are abviously well adjusted and balanced Bruce
[02:49 PM] Agatha Macbeth: Depends how much gin he's having...
[02:49 PM] Zen Arado: :)
[02:49 PM] Zen Arado: it's good for jealousy maybe
[02:49 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: I think jealousy is intertwined with attachment...but in human relationships, it can be a positive thing to feel a little fear of losing your relationship to someone dear
[02:49 PM] Bruce Mowbray: back.
[02:49 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: wb :)
[02:50 PM] Zen Arado: wb Bruce (with gin)
[02:50 PM] Bruce Mowbray is now reading what was siad while he was away.
[02:50 PM] Zen Arado: yes could make you appreciate them more Violet
[02:50 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: Yex, exactly
[02:50 PM] Bruce Mowbray: another excellent point, Atari -- about attachment.
[02:50 PM] Zen Arado: that slight edge
[02:50 PM] Zen Arado: but it can also be obsessive
[02:51 PM] Zen Arado: possessive
[02:51 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: Yes
[02:51 PM] Bruce Mowbray: maybe that's where the "fear" mentioned by Atari comes in.
[02:51 PM] Zen Arado: how do you deal with it?
[02:51 PM] Bruce Mowbray: Maybe the fear, attachment, and possessiveness make it turn "bad" -- destructive.
[02:51 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: Fear is usually not the best place to act from...but it can tell you what you cherish
[02:52 PM] Zen Arado: first thing is to own up to it
[02:52 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: Mm, Bruce
[02:52 PM] Zen Arado: yes |Bruce
[02:52 PM] Bruce Mowbray: Everything can tell you something -- that doesn't mean we have to "react" and behave from that emotional space.
[02:52 PM] Zen Arado: pp often bottle it up
[02:52 PM] Zen Arado: ignore it
[02:52 PM] Zen Arado: don't want to face it
[02:52 PM] Bruce Mowbray: First thing is even to be AWARE of it.
[02:53 PM] Zen Arado: yes exactly
[02:53 PM] Zen Arado: not repress it
[02:53 PM] Zen Arado: good thing is to meditate with it
[02:53 PM] Zen Arado: works for me
[02:53 PM] Agatha Macbeth smiles
[02:53 PM] Zen Arado: it can be kinda worn out
[02:54 PM] Zen Arado: especially the worst kind
[02:54 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: Sometimes you can turn feelings like that toward your favor, if you recognize *why* you feel that way...
[02:54 PM] Zen Arado: yes
[02:54 PM] Bruce Mowbray: If we can be aware of it -- and move into it (in a sense) and "be" with it, it will dissipate -- because our reactiveness will no longer be fueling it. Our awareness and willingness to "be" with it -- will cause it to dissipate and no longer have any power over us.
[02:54 PM] Zen Arado: and where in the body does it hurt?
[02:54 PM] Zen Arado: yes great Bruce
[02:55 PM] Bruce Mowbray: Meditate with it -- precisely so!
[02:55 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: Mm
[02:55 PM] Zen Arado: or even just stay with it
[02:55 PM] Bruce Mowbray: Which, for me, means "Rest with it."
[02:55 PM] Zen Arado: but mostly with the sensations of it
[02:55 PM] Zen Arado: yes
[02:55 PM] Zen Arado: or doing soething physical can be good
[02:56 PM] Zen Arado: or confiding to someone
[02:56 PM] Bruce Mowbray: For me ( and I am NOT trying to preach now ) meditation is the same this as restful awareness. But I put the emphasis on RESTing.
[02:56 PM] Bruce Mowbray: the same thing*
[02:56 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: That makes sense to me, Bruce
[02:56 PM] Zen Arado: they recommend a technique I thoiught was funny
[02:56 PM] Bruce Mowbray: Resting is my Way of Knowing.
[02:56 PM] Zen Arado: 'Poor baby'
[02:57 PM] Zen Arado: you tell someone the problem...pour it out on them and....they juts keep saying.. poor baby..
[02:57 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: And yes, Zen--doing something with it, expressing it, without allowing it to decide how you do
[02:57 PM] Zen Arado: :)
[02:57 PM] Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
[02:58 PM] Zen Arado: it's amazingly effective though they say
[02:58 PM] Bruce Mowbray: or, if they are an aware person themselves, they might ask, "Is THAT who you are?"
[02:59 PM] Bruce Mowbray: OMG -- the hour is almost done!
[02:59 PM] Zen Arado: so that's about it
[02:59 PM] Zen Arado: so next week?
[02:59 PM] Zen Arado: suggestions?
[02:59 PM] Bruce Mowbray: we sitl have two more mythis to go here..... but whatever folks want to discuss is fine with moi.
[03:00 PM] Bruce Mowbray listens (or tries to).
[03:00 PM] Agatha Macbeth rubs Brucie's ear
[03:00 PM] Bruce Mowbray: I've been working with the notion of "edge" recently.
[03:00 PM] Zen Arado: the book alternately fascinates and repels me
[03:00 PM] Bruce Mowbray: Thinking that "edge" is where we grow.
[03:00 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: "Edge?"
[03:01 PM] Zen Arado: ok
[03:01 PM] Agatha Macbeth: Must be good then Zen :p
[03:01 PM] Zen Arado: :)
[03:01 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: hehe!
[03:01 PM] Bruce Mowbray: That situations in life put us at an "edge" and that's where growth happens.
[03:01 PM] Zen Arado: how about 'how to handle a group orgy'
[03:01 PM] Zen Arado: see what I mean ?
[03:01 PM] Agatha Macbeth: With great care?
[03:01 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: That sounds like something a good topic could grow from :)
[03:01 PM] Zen Arado: :)
[03:01 PM] Bruce Mowbray: Our practice is most meaningful when there is an "edge" that we're working with.
[03:02 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: Bruce's, rather...to be sure :)
[03:02 PM] Agatha Macbeth nods
[03:02 PM] Bruce Mowbray: So -- How about "edge" and "practice" for next time?
[03:02 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: That sounds good :)
[03:02 PM] Zen Arado: I wasn't suggesting group orgy as a topic :)
[03:02 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: I know :)
[03:02 PM] Bruce Mowbray: OK -- I wil write something for the wiki about it.
[03:02 PM] Bruce Mowbray: ok?
[03:02 PM] Agatha Macbeth: Think we'd need more people Zen
[03:02 PM] Zen Arado: uless there is a practical part :)
[03:02 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: But the timing made me laugh, anyway :)
[03:02 PM] Bruce Mowbray: it will be very brief.
[03:03 PM] Agatha Macbeth: That's what they all say
[03:03 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: That sounds great, Bruce :)
[03:03 PM] Bruce Mowbray: We Do need more people -- or maybe we don't.
[03:03 PM] Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
[03:03 PM] Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, Atari.
[03:03 PM] Zen Arado: it's holiday time
[03:03 PM] Agatha Macbeth: I'll test the fire exits
[03:03 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: I like small groups
[03:03 PM] Zen Arado: that's the problem maybe
[03:03 PM] Zen Arado: me too
[03:03 PM] Agatha Macbeth pictures a small group orgy
[03:03 PM] Zen Arado: I can talk more
[03:03 PM] Zen Arado: :)
[03:04 PM] Ataraxia Azemus laughs
[03:04 PM] Agatha Macbeth: 'How to make a few people very happy'
[03:04 PM] Bruce Mowbray has to go -- stomach is taking over my life.
[03:04 PM] Agatha Macbeth: Aww, bye bruce
[03:04 PM] Bruce Mowbray: See yall next Thursday!
[03:04 PM] Zen Arado: bye |Bruce
[03:04 PM] Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....
[03:04 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: Happy foraging, Bruce. Glad you could be here :)
[03:04 PM] Arisia Vita: bye Bruce
[03:04 PM] Arisia Vita: ty
[03:05 PM] Arisia Vita: I must fly too, it's been great being with you all
[03:05 PM] Agatha Macbeth: I'll be off too, take care folks
[03:05 PM] Zen Arado: bye all
[03:05 PM] Arisia Vita: be well and happy
[03:05 PM] Zen Arado: take care
[03:05 PM] Ataraxia Azemus: Take care, everyone :)