Which do you prefer?

One raid difficulty

Two raid difficulties

Why is it that you people continue to insist that players asking for multiple difficulties or smaller raid sizes or whatever asking for Carbine to cater to the "lowest common skill denominator"? Argh. It's enough to make me want to pull out my hair.

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Because multi difficulties are pretty much just lazines of the developers. You could just do the same effort patching up a new model from parts of old mobs and slap it in a ready instance somewhere, as in WoW there were those everywhere. Before the "real" raid content that is hard so you wont need the "harcore mode wwww000!".

Players rly wouldnt demand that a special fight mechanics from a "trashcontent" bosses between larger updates and raid instance releases as long as you have something to do with your community.

No hard feelings it is just my opinion, make quality thing with long and beautiful content and people will play your game, or go easy way with same content but different quality settings to attract "more" people is just excuse to work less, u may always add pandas to attract big Asian market, if u want to play really low

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I agree with what you say as well, and what I would like to see is everyone experiencing the content. Many people did not get to see the death of the lich king for example. I'm not much of a raider, but I was invited on one raid, and was able to see it. It was an interesting fight, and nice cinematic and all. That's the kind of thing I like to see. The lore, the story, what happened to the lich king, and all other things in the game. Blizzard did a decent job with the theme for northrend, lots of missions and involvement with the lich king, and lots of people did not get to see the closure in that. Kind of like having a book without the last 100 pages.

When I say different difficulty settings, I don't just mean increase the damage and life of mobs and bosses. I mean, really change the difficulty setting. Add more skills to bosses, add adds, add enrage timers, add attunement requirements for the top difficulty ones, it's basically like a different raid altogether. Of course, you would also add different rewards for doing the hard raids. Titles, mounts, cool looking gear. I'm not really worried about the gear, you can keep the epic gear on the difficult settings, and rewards good blues on the easy settings. That's fine with me. What I want is for people to experience the content, specially if that content has to do with the lore, and the story of Nexus. No reason for people to miss out on that.

I agree with what you say as well, and what I would like to see is everyone experiencing the content. Many people did not get to see the death of the lich king for example. I'm not much of a raider, but I was invited on one raid, and was able to see it. It was an interesting fight, and nice cinematic and all. That's the kind of thing I like to see. The lore, the story, what happened to the lich king, and all other things in the game. Blizzard did a decent job with the theme for northrend, lots of missions and involvement with the lich king, and lots of people did not get to see the closure in that. Kind of like having a book without the last 100 pages.

When I say different difficulty settings, I don't just mean increase the damage and life of mobs and bosses. I mean, really change the difficulty setting. Add more skills to bosses, add adds, add enrage timers, add attunement requirements for the top difficulty ones, it's basically like a different raid altogether. Of course, you would also add different rewards for doing the hard raids. Titles, mounts, cool looking gear. I'm not really worried about the gear, you can keep the epic gear on the difficult settings, and rewards good blues on the easy settings. That's fine with me. What I want is for people to experience the content, specially if that content has to do with the lore, and the story of Nexus. No reason for people to miss out on that.

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On that note Carbine has said they are separating the story from the raids; all story and lore content can be completed in a solo capacity. With this we don't have the issue of players missing out on the depth of the world because they cannot complete or don't wish to participate in specific group content.

On that note Carbine has said they are separating the story from the raids; all story and lore content can be completed in a solo capacity. With this we don't have the issue of players missing out on the depth of the world because they cannot complete or don't wish to participate in specific group content.

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most of the story lore can be completed in a solo capacity, i'm pretty darn sure there's some lore/story in the Raids, kinda silly if there's no reason that that boss is there killing everyone/protecting something.

[13:31] <Blankspace> I need a new drink[13:31] <Blankspace> I trust no one but you[13:34] <Blankspace> Kat, the amount of love I have for the drinks that you make me is not able to be described in words anyone knows

My problem with multi-difficulty raiding is the laddering effect that means that once you've farmed your gear from normal - "hardmode" just becomes normal again (effectively negating the difficulty) as you can push out bigger numbers due to all the gear upgrades and you already know the tactics.

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Eh, that's just poor design on the part of the hardmode (and gear scaling that moves too quickly), not an intrinsic flaw in the system. It's possible to tune fights higher, alter mechanics significantly, or do other things my still-half-sleeping mind hasn't come up with on the fly that would make a fight more challenging. I've never been a huge fan of how influenced raiding is by gear. Someone needs to find a way to make something difficult, even after you've gotten all the gear out of that place. Perhaps adjust gear scaling rates, or randomize boss attacks more, or even core innovations in boss AI to make them more reactive... I'unno.

Song dogs barking at the break of dawn, lightning pushes the edges of a thunderstorm. And these streets, quiet as a sleeping army, send their battered dreams to heaven.

Eh, that's just poor design on the part of the hardmode (and gear scaling that moves too quickly), not an intrinsic flaw in the system. It's possible to tune fights higher, alter mechanics significantly, or do other things my still-half-sleeping mind hasn't come up with on the fly that would make a fight more challenging. I've never been a huge fan of how influenced raiding is by gear. Someone needs to find a way to make something difficult, even after you've gotten all the gear out of that place. Perhaps adjust gear scaling rates, or randomize boss attacks more, or even core innovations in boss AI to make them more reactive... I'unno.

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Perhaps just use alot of telegraphs so moving is really essential.. imagine a boss you alwyas need to move and in meanwhile keep dps healing and tanking up... makes things more challenging... work something like that out well and i bet alot of guilds will fail and die on a boss like that... and perhaaps after some months when the "hardcore" part did it nerf it so the casuals can swoop in and be the hero! But anyway back to the poin i think those telegraphs really can create interesting fights although the telegraphs on their own make a bossfight easier already... since back in days i recall encounters while raiding where a wall of fire came on me meteors and there was no sign on the floor.. but i think if it are fast telegraphs still alot of people will have trouble for it... since moving out a fire has been always hard for alot of raiders including myself from time to time hahaa ^^

The telegraph system is interesting, though I hope they don't rely on it too overly much. I'd like to see some degree of forcing players to watch boss movements, not just patterns on the floor - similar to how in TERA you need to watch for individual boss attacks. If the claws on that arachnen boss lift up super high, better block or GTFO. I Shandra lifts one hand up, she's about to do a sweeping attack that could give me a debuff if I don't block/dodge it. The lancer boss just adjusted his shield, so he's about to do a stun-attack combo. Etc. This all happens at a rather fast pace, and is highly randomized, so it's much more involved. Telegraphs are cool, and I can see them being used for some really interesting mechanics, but I hope it's not the only thing they do. WS may not be an actual action combat game, but perhaps they can take elements from other real action combat games that make boss fights a lot more interesting than tab-target ones.

Song dogs barking at the break of dawn, lightning pushes the edges of a thunderstorm. And these streets, quiet as a sleeping army, send their battered dreams to heaven.

i dont think it will be the only thing they do... Bet they will use alot of variation... speaking about adds, boss movement, debuffs , buffs, environmental damages and so much more... i think if you can work to create a bossencounter for a game there are so many possibilities. and they want to make things hard so with the knowledge weve seen in many games out there i think we will see some interesting combinations. well i have trust in it!

You can still feel epic. Because there are multiple modes does not mean that will detract from how you feel getting server first or world first. There will be more competition of course, which I think is pretty fine. It's difficult to please everyone in games like this.

Anyways, holy trinity is in, there two different types of raids, world PvP is in, not sure about xrealm LFG, factions exist, there will be music, you will get to hear the sound of Aurins dying.

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It effected me for sure. It just makes everything bleh when there are multiple versions of the same raid. I'm all about nerfing raids over time.

For me personally when I see multiple raid modes suggested, I see it as one version of a raid is easier than the other version. How this effects the bosses whether giving them more hp and damage, or giving them another mechanic which makes the fight harder seems irrelevant to me, because it still boils down to 1 version is easier than the other version.

In the course of a new mmos life, we have seen time, and time again over the last few years that if a game is far too accessible early on people get bored with the game, and they end up quitting. People then go through the easier mode, and say cool I saw the story in here, and I completed everything. Most people don't care much about the hard mode, because they already completed the last boss in the instance. Then they start complaining they ran out of things to do in the game. This is especially dangerous early on in a mmos life, because the players are still determining whether or not they like the game, and they won't stick around if they feel like they completed the majority of the content.

So I hope Carbine sticks to their plan of having single mode content that is difficult, because it won't cause that feeling of there is nothing left to do, because players will aspire to possibly wanting to see everything the game has to offer.

For me personally when I see multiple raid modes suggested, I see it as one version of a raid is easier than the other version. How this effects the bosses whether giving them more hp and damage, or giving them another mechanic which makes the fight harder seems irrelevant to me, because it still boils down to 1 version is easier than the other version.

In the course of a new mmos life, we have seen time, and time again over the last few years that if a game is far too accessible early on people get bored with the game, and they end up quitting. People then go through the easier mode, and say cool I saw the story in here, and I completed everything. Most people don't care much about the hard mode, because they already completed the last boss in the instance. Then they start complaining they ran out of things to do in the game. This is especially dangerous early on in a mmos life, because the players are still determining whether or not they like the game, and they won't stick around if they feel like they completed the majority of the content.

So I hope Carbine sticks to their plan of having single mode content that is difficult, because it won't cause that feeling of there is nothing left to do, because players will aspire to possibly wanting to see everything the game has to offer.

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I do not think that is a good approach either... That's like keeping the people in the game with a carrot that many of them cannot reach. You'll run the same risk of them leaving because they cannot see all the content, or cannot advance, than of them leaving after they see everything.

The correct approach (in my opinion), is to make the raids fun. Not a grind for gear or rep, but fun in an on itself. If the raid is fun in easy mode, and also fun in hard mode, then it will provide fun for the hardcore players, and for the more casual players as well. They will keep running the different dungeons/raid, simply because they are having fun.

Keeping people in the game with unreachable content is simply not a good approach for me...

I do not think that is a good approach either... That's like keeping the people in the game with a carrot that many of them cannot reach. You'll run the same risk of them leaving because they cannot see all the content, or cannot advance, than of them leaving after they see everything.

The correct approach (in my opinion), is to make the raids fun. Not a grind for gear or rep, but fun in an on itself. If the raid is fun in easy mode, and also fun in hard mode, then it will provide fun for the hardcore players, and for the more casual players as well. They will keep running the different dungeons/raid, simply because they are having fun.

Keeping people in the game with unreachable content is simply not a good approach for me...

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And making end game just like all the other easy mmos who have come out within last few years will certainly cause this game to fall under the same fate as those. If people run out of things to do in mmos they quit its plain and simple.

I do not think that is a good approach either... That's like keeping the people in the game with a carrot that many of them cannot reach. You'll run the same risk of them leaving because they cannot see all the content, or cannot advance, than of them leaving after they see everything.

The correct approach (in my opinion), is to make the raids fun. Not a grind for gear or rep, but fun in an on itself. If the raid is fun in easy mode, and also fun in hard mode, then it will provide fun for the hardcore players, and for the more casual players as well. They will keep running the different dungeons/raid, simply because they are having fun.

Keeping people in the game with unreachable content is simply not a good approach for me...

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Nothing is unreachable if you have a good setup. and as far as i know raiding is a teamsport where people work together. and most casual guilds ive been in had one problem no teamwork individual fails wich wipes the group. not nescary cause content is hard... so if you find a guild that is a bit of coordinated i gues you wont have issue with some harder content.. and we all wipe and i think wiping is a part of raiding... figuring out the right aproach and get everyone doing the right stuff is the best part and when you get that big ass boss down you feel satisfied... but lets say we make it accesible for mainstream their is no challenge a boss will drop down before we hit em and frankly i dont like that idea... i want to be there wiping 3 weeks on a damn boss par example to get him down! thats raiding haha! but anyway just my personal opinion

And making end game just like all the other easy mmos who have come out within last few years will certainly cause this game to fall under the same fate as those. If people run out of things to do in mmos they quit its plain and simple.

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If people cannot access the content (because it is too hard), then they already ran out of things to do as well, and may as well leave.

I do not think the problem is whether everyone can access some content, or only 1% of the population. The problem comes down to whether the content that we can access, is fun enough, varied enough, dynamic enough to hold us in. If Carbine can make the content really fun and dynamic, that just the content alone will hold us in, then why not make it available to everyone with different difficulty settings?

Nothing is unreachable if you have a good setup. and as far as i know raiding is a teamsport where people work together. and most casual guilds ive been in had one problem no teamwork individual fails wich wipes the group. not nescary cause content is hard... so if you find a guild that is a bit of coordinated i gues you wont have issue with some harder content.. and we all wipe and i think wiping is a part of raiding... figuring out the right aproach and get everyone doing the right stuff is the best part and when you get that big ass boss down you feel satisfied... but lets say we make it accesible for mainstream their is no challenge a boss will drop down before we hit em and frankly i dont like that idea... i want to be there wiping 3 weeks on a damn boss par example to get him down! thats raiding haha! but anyway just my personal opinion

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It depends how they approach raiding. Old WoW raid you needed to sit there for 3-4 hours straight to get through a raid (on a good day, with no wipes). Not everyone has that amount of time to invest in it in one sitting...

Now, if they invent new ways to raid. For example, no weekly resets. You reset it when you want to reset it. Also, you can run it in smaller tracts. For example, run 45 minutes to kill a boss, and then save the raid for next week, and start on the next boss. That would not make it any easier, the bosses would be the same, but it would make it more approachable for people that cannot play as often, or for extended periods of time.

If they could add options to make it more approachable for more people, then I would be fine with it as well. Adding easier difficulty settings is one way, but it's not the only way.

Why is it that you people continue to insist that players asking for multiple difficulties or smaller raid sizes or whatever asking for Carbine to cater to the "lowest common skill denominator"? Argh. It's enough to make me want to pull out my hair.

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Yeah, I have to agree. In a few threads I expressed my opinion about something and the response was an assumtion that I wasnt a serious player or haven't experienced something because I was taking an opposite view point. Truth of the matter is, from a business model perspective, the more players you accomodate offering various levels of playability, the more players you will have play your game. To many people make assumtions that, as an example, just because I may not have raided 5 days a week it means I'm not a serious raider. That kind of stuff really irritates me. I may have a life outside gaming, I may have kids or other interests, does automatically mean that I haven't done my homework and know how to do a boss fight? NO IT CERTAINLY DOES NOT!!!! That's such a WOW bred mentality and it's horribly incorrect.

Realistically, just because not everyone was a "hard core raider" and that Blizzard decided to make the game accesible and enjoyable for more than 15% of there subscriber base doesn't mean they are subscribing to the "lowest common denominator". Granted, there were many changes made to accomodate player complaints ( Maybe some of them for the worse) but that is not necessarily a bad thing from a business perspective. Important to remember the game is a business product.

If people cannot access the content (because it is too hard), then they already ran out of things to do as well, and may as well leave.

I do not think the problem is whether everyone can access some content, or only 1% of the population. The problem comes down to whether the content that we can access, is fun enough, varied enough, dynamic enough to hold us in. If Carbine can make the content really fun and dynamic, that just the content alone will hold us in, then why not make it available to everyone with different difficulty settings?

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I do agree with you that content shouldn't just be seen by 1% of the population, there needs to be some form of entry level. And I also agree that content needs to be varied enough, and have some sort of fun in order to hold our interest. However, I just feel like multiple raids modes are not the solution to that dilemma.

So for example, let's say that the first few bosses in raid are set at an easier difficulty. However, as you progress through the dungeon the bosses become increasing more difficult than the last. It will still allow people to progress, and see the content, and with dynamic content those earlier bosses will have changed slightly, so people don't get bored with it.

It depends how they approach raiding. Old WoW raid you needed to sit there for 3-4 hours straight to get through a raid (on a good day, with no wipes). Not everyone has that amount of time to invest in it in one sitting...

Now, if they invent new ways to raid. For example, no weekly resets. You reset it when you want to reset it. Also, you can run it in smaller tracts. For example, run 45 minutes to kill a boss, and then save the raid for next week, and start on the next boss. That would not make it any easier, the bosses would be the same, but it would make it more approachable for people that cannot play as often, or for extended periods of time.

If they could add options to make it more approachable for more people, then I would be fine with it as well. Adding easier difficulty settings is one way, but it's not the only way.

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I dont get your point man. If i recall these days it is possible in games like wow to expand the raid clock... So wouldnt solve that your problem? you dont need to make a raid easy for that. imagine a hardcore guild that can reset the raid clock when they want... they are fully geared in a day par example... I dont think thats a solution... I think old school best a raid clock of 7 days and if the adds betweens bosses are reasonable you can get perfectly 10 tries an houre on the boss and you still can play ... and if you want you can expand the raid clock... that way everyone is happy

I dont get your point man. If i recall these days it is possible in games like wow to expand the raid clock... So wouldnt solve that your problem? you dont need to make a raid easy for that. imagine a hardcore guild that can reset the raid clock when they want... they are fully geared in a day par example... I dont think thats a solution... I think old school best a raid clock of 7 days and if the adds betweens bosses are reasonable you can get perfectly 10 tries an houre on the boss and you still can play ... and if you want you can expand the raid clock... that way everyone is happy

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Sorry, I quit WoW quite a while ago, and last time I was there, it was basically "finish the raid on a week, or tough luck!". I really do not understand the limit for hardcore raiders though. I mean, if they want to finish a raid every day of the week for a full week, why not let them? Those are artificial locks to try to keep the people in the game because your content is not that good, or not dynamic, or engaging enough. Also makes sense on a game that is all about gear... I hope Wildstar is not all about gear...

If there are ways now to make raiding more accessible, and it does not reset after a week, then that is great! There may be groups of people that can raid once every 2 weeks for a couple of hours, so giving them options to raid with their weird schedule sounds good to me. I mean, who cares of some guild takes 4 months to finish 1 raid run?

I do agree with you that content shouldn't just be seen by 1% of the population, there needs to be some form of entry level. And I also agree that content needs to be varied enough, and have some sort of fun in order to hold our interest. However, I just feel like multiple raids modes are not the solution to that dilemma.

So for example, let's say that the first few bosses in raid are set at an easier difficulty. However, as you progress through the dungeon the bosses become increasing more difficult than the last. It will still allow people to progress, and see the content, and with dynamic content those earlier bosses will have changed slightly, so people don't get bored with it.

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I picked difficulty settings, because it is the easier solution for different skilled groups. I agree, it is not the only solution. Increasing difficulty in bosses, maybe different paths through a raid (some easier if you are caster heavy for example, or melee heavy). There are ways around it, and ways to make it more accessible to everyone. I don't want the raids to lose all sense of accomplishment, I just want ways for everyone to experience them... Not just the people that can play 5 days a week, 3-4 hours per day...