Re: Recent interview extracts posted on Twitter

Yeah, I agree, Liberty. When he was a "young Padawan" he could joke and be light-hearted about it. But when he saw how "stalinistic" (to use his own words) some fans were about Johnlock and what direction they wanted, no, insisted, the show take, it became less funny to him.

Susi - yeah, I think we all agree that it is a love story. It's just that they (Martin, Ben and the writers) were talking about platonic love, whereas some fans interpreted it as romantic love.

I personally have never seen Martin as homophobic, and even through all the craziest fandom aggresion and entitlement issues, I don't think I've ever seen anyone accuse him of such either.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings

Re: Recent interview extracts posted on Twitter

Did he really use the word „stalinists“? (I didn´t watch the video Liberty posted yet...)If yes, then it´s a bizarre overreaction from otherwise very professional actor.

Bullying on the internet is wrong and it is certainly unpleasant if people criticise your work harshly, but come on... let´s put that into a perspective.

Martin Freeman is a successful man. He gets plenty of offers for interesting projects, is financially self-sufficient, travels all around the world, is recognised as a good actor by both critics and audience, enjoys good health, dresses in designer clothes and on top of his normal work, he is also active in music, promoting a new album. Quite an enjoyable life. And somewhere on the internet, in the fan zone, a few people may have negative opinions on him and they voice it online.... but that can only reach you, if you actively search for such posts.

Are you sure that can be compared with summary executions, forced deportations, gulag internation, relocation of thousands of people, even whole nations, from their ancestral lands into some remore areas with harsh weather and barren land, wiping out your likeness from photographs, forcing you to work at the gunpoint, falsely locking you up in an institution, i.e. the crimes of stalinism?

Incomparable and he should know that. How can an actor promote his new work and at the same time label his audience like that? If I will buy his jazz album and I would like it, what label will I receive? A nazi?

If he is sour because series 4 of Sherlock was badly received, I can to some extend understand it, but hey – Sherlock was not the only series in the world which had such a fall out. Concluding series of very successful „Poirot“ was heavily criticised from fans for its dark, depressive atmosphere and for its lack of fidelity to Agatha Christie originals, for example like this:

That could certainly be hurtful for the people working on the project. And yet I cannot imagine David Suchet badmouthing his viewers and giving them names.

In acting, there´s always a risk that people will dislike your role or the movie or series you were a part of. But in this case, I´m doubtful. I read many of those maligned „Johnlock“ blogs after S4 was broadcasted and although many of them hated S4, they all unanimously praised Martin Freeman and his work in the series. So why all the outrage?

"Me and Ben, we have literally never, never played a moment like lovers. We ain’t f***ing lovers."

Is it just me, or he really does not make any distinction between himself and his role here? „Me and Ben aren´t lovers...“ why does he equate Sherlock and John (fictional characters) with himself and Benedict Cumberbatch? He and Benedict, they embodied the roles, but people shipped John and Sherlock, fictional creations of Arthur Conan Doyle. What harm could that bring to the actors, I wonder?

On the other hand, I can understand his dislike to Johnlock then. If you hold your real personality and your role for the same thing, then indeed, your role becoming a gay lover onscreen would mean that you became gay lover in real life too.

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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

Re: Recent interview extracts posted on Twitter

Good thoughts, nakahara. And while I find his mixing up of himself and Benedict and Martin and Sherlock quite confusing, he may have stumbled upon some Freebatch shippers. Yes, there are people who think they are in love in real life and who write fanfics about that. Not my cup of tea. However, for Martin to discover those he must have looked quite closely or even searched for them. Which, for him as an actor, would not be a wise move.

------------------------------"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

Re: Recent interview extracts posted on Twitter

I don't think it's that at all. He doesn't seem to have anything against the general idea of Johnlock. It seems to be the misinterpretation of his acting, and the implication that he (and the team) are homophobic if they don't play it out. I don't think he's confusing himself with the character either. I think he's just trying to explain that that's not how he played the character.

As I said, I do think it's a tiny minority who have upset him. But it does exist! I did have a little look around the net at the time, and yes, there were people insisting that he was playing the character as fancying Sherlock and also people insisting that they had to make them a couple or else it would be "queerbaiting", etc. He did say that his complaint was not about S4 being badly received, but about this specific issue. I don't think there was a similar issue with Poirot.

(Although who knows? We all know that a lot depends on how things are reported).

The video I posted is just an old one, that I'm sure we've all seen before. I was just reminded of it by his comments!

Re: Recent interview extracts posted on Twitter

He did not use the word "stalinist" in this interview. That is a quote a few years back, from an interview I saw on YouTube. He was asked about his view on Johnlock, and he said (not actual quote, my paraphrase) that he didn't mind it as long as it was done for fun, but that he disliked it when it became stalinist. (I think this is from the panel with him, Amanda, Ben, Moffat and Sue).

I watched that video quite early on in my journey through this fandom, and I didn't understand what he was talking about. It felt like a really strong word to use for something that I have always viewed as something fun, a spice in everyday life. But the more I got into the fandom, the more I understood what he was talking about. The dark side of this fandom is cruel, entitled, self-righteous and horrible towards both the actors and the writers (but mainly the writers).

As Martin said once - they are not fans of the show. They are fans of the show in their own head. That is the best summary I've seen of this issue, I think. And so as far as I am concerned, he has not been disrespectful or rude towards fans of the show. Because fans of the show are not the problem.

We can not decide for Martin what he should feel about this. You can't say that just because someone is successful in some areas of life, they are not allowed to feel anger or hurt in other areas. That is not how the human psyche works. Neither do we know what kind of comments he has read/heard and where he has read(heard them.

As for him mixing up his own name with his character's name, I think that is quite common by actors. I have heard it from others as well. Sometimes they will refer to their character as "He/she thinks that...", somtimes they will refer to them as "I...". I've seen Ben do the same with Sherlock, sometimes say "he", and sometimes "I".

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings

Re: Recent interview extracts posted on Twitter

Liberty wrote:

As I said, I do think it's a tiny minority who have upset him. But it does exist! I did have a little look around the net at the time, and yes, there were people insisting that he was playing the character as fancying Sherlock and also people insisting that they had to make them a couple or else it would be "queerbaiting", etc. He did say that his complaint was not about S4 being badly received, but about this specific issue. I don't think there was a similar issue with Poirot.

I too had an impression that he was playing the character as fancying Sherlock. And so what? Having an impression about a character is not illegal.... yet.

And I still think that healthy, rich and successful man who had voluntarily chosen acting as his profession looks a little ridiculous when he complains that people have "impressions" about him or that they like his work "too much". Isn´t acting (and the whole celebrity culture connected with it) about creating such dreams and impressions in the first place?

@Vhanja: If Sophie Hunter complained about the "dark-side" you mention, I would understand. There are bizarre and malicious haters who pointedly target her as a person, her husband and kids, her career... I am very much surprised she didn´t sue some of them to scare these people off. Because what they are doing is really criminal and it should be stopped.

But I honestly didn´t see anything like that aimed at Martin Freeman, ever.

Just a critique of the series and writing, even extreme one, is not the same thing as such awful personal attacks for me, so I simply can´t force myself to see him as equally harrassed, sorry. But I admit I do not have the whole story - only he could say what actually upset him. I think that it could be a combination of personal and professional issues and fandom was probably just a final drop that overturned the glass....

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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

Re: Recent interview extracts posted on Twitter

Well, I didn´t see any hate-sites targeting him in a similar manner.....

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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

Re: Recent interview extracts posted on Twitter

Of course, it's fine to get the impression that he was playing the character that way. I think the issue was more with people insisting (I imagine the more extreme end of the TJLC community) that he was lying when he said that he wasn't, and that it would be homophobic to not follow through on it. It's not just a critique of the writing, it's a criticism of his acting, and implied accusations of either lying or homophobia. Yes, he's in a privileged position, but that doesn't mean he's not allowed to be bothered by it.

I don't think he's claiming that it's illegal to state these opinions at all (thankfully, we still have a certain amount of free speech!), but just maybe being honest about how it has made him feel. I'm getting the feeling that he's now being criticised for even mentioning it.

Re: Recent interview extracts posted on Twitter

Vhanja wrote:

But how is that relevant? "X can't complain, because Y had it worse" isn't a valid argument.

Don´t put things I never wrote or said into my mouth.

I stated that I don´t see him as harrassed one. React on things I actually said.

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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

Three different blogs, all of them as Johnlock as can be - and their attitude towards Martin is just as mellow and friendly as before.

Maybe people should actually post some evidence of hatred before they accusse others of it?

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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

Re: Recent interview extracts posted on Twitter

nakahara wrote:

Vhanja wrote:

But how is that relevant? "X can't complain, because Y had it worse" isn't a valid argument.

Don´t put things I never wrote or said into my mouth.

I stated that I don´t see him as harrassed one. React on things I actually said.

I'm sorry if I misinterpreted you, but I just didn't see the relevance of what Sophie Hunter went through since this is a completely different case. Especially since no one, including Martin himself, has mentioned anything about him being harassed.

But I don't think it's particular relevant what we think or feel about what Martin has been through anyway. The only thing that matters is what he feels about it. We can't tell him "No, from an outsider perspective, as a critical fan giving my view from my couch, I do not think you should feel particularly upset about this".

Last edited by Vhanja (March 27, 2018 1:26 pm)

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings

Re: Recent interview extracts posted on Twitter

Vhanja wrote:

We can't tell him "No, from an outsider perspective, as a critical fan giving my view from my couch, I do not think you should feel particularly upset about this".

That´s true, but we can tell him: "I don´t understand what you are talking about, man."

If he is free to state his disgust with fans, I as a fan am equally entitled to state my puzzlement with that.

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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

Re: Recent interview extracts posted on Twitter

Of course. But none of us know what he really reacted to as none of us know what he has seen/heard/read/been told.

But I for one am not at all surprised or puzzled, because the attitude he is talking about is something I have seen a lot in this fandom, unfortunately. And I don't see any disgust against fans. I see frustration of people who are fans of the show in their own head, and the consequences of their constant whining and complaining is that he no longer feels the same joy from being part of Sherlock.

Congratulations, entitled part of this fandom, you have successfully managed to wear down Martin Freeman and zap the joy out of playing John Watson for him. I hope it was worth it.

Last edited by Vhanja (March 27, 2018 1:43 pm)

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings

Three different blogs, all of them as Johnlock as can be - and their attitude towards Martin is just as mellow and friendly as before.

Maybe people should actually post some evidence of hatred before they accusse others of it?

Well, I didn't say it was "hatred". And even in those blog posts there is some negativity about Martin mentioning how he felt: "he said something that pissed me off", "queerbaiting" (basically homophobia), "Benedict also spoke shit". "why is this being discussed", "I'm not even particularly angry at Martin" (so angry to some extent) - that does come across to me as negative and gives the impression that they are criticising him for saying how he feels. Even your comment about him looking ridiculous. I'm not talking about hatred, but I was getting the feeling of disapproval that he talked about his feelings on this. It seems like he can't win!

I still think that it's a very small, vocal minority who have upset him in the first place, though. As I've said, I don't think he's talking about fans in general, or Johnlock shippers in general. But I suppose with that small minority being particularly vocal, it makes them seem bigger than they are.

Re: Recent interview extracts posted on Twitter

Ah, good that he cleared that up. Things tend to easily miss some nuances in media. Glad to hear that he's not totally lost his fun, only that parts of it aren't enjoyable. Which is even more understandable - and reasonable - as far as I am concerned.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings