The last page and a half are a perfect example of how rumors get started. A guy admits to making a reply to a post; a reply that was stated pages ago in here. A reply that was so obviously a joke. But people were ready to jump all over the guy for starting the entire rumor. :laugh:

So what should we take from all of this? Kriv was seen at the ballpark and asked the Marlins GM if he wanted a hot dog. The Marlins GM said yes. Kriv asked the O's GM, who was sitting next to the Marlins GM, if he wanted a hot dog. The O's GM didn't hear Kriv, so he asked the Marlins GM what Kriv said. The Marlins GM told him and the O's GM told Kriv he wanted one also. Someone had been walking by when all this happened, seeing these three talking, lo and behold we have a three way trade of the century.

OnBaseMachine

07-12-2006, 02:17 PM

So what should we take from all of this? Kriv was seen at the ballpark and asked the Marlins GM if he wanted a hot dog. The Marlins GM said yes. Kriv asked the O's GM, who was sitting next to the Marlins GM, if he wanted a hot dog. The O's GM didn't hear Kriv, so he asked the Marlins GM what Kriv said. The Marlins GM told him and the O's GM told Kriv he wanted one also. Someone had been walking by when all this happened, seeing these three talking, lo and behold we have a three way trade of the century.

Krivsky is interested in Jim Edmonds?:eek:

Spitball

07-12-2006, 02:27 PM

Krivsky is interested in Jim Edmonds?:eek:
:laugh: It took me a second, though. :laugh:

cincy09

07-12-2006, 02:28 PM

this board is chalked full of comedians

CougarQuest

07-12-2006, 02:29 PM

this board is chalked full of comedians
That's just a rumor
:evil:

ochre

07-12-2006, 02:30 PM

That's way too linear.

Krivsky was at the orthodontist getting his malocclusion looked at. It just so happens that Beinfest's cousin Maury's kid Stuart was in the same office building for his Souzaphone lessons. Stuart's second seat to a kid named Robert, who just happens to be Flanagan's nephew. Well, while they were at band camp...

LoganBuck

07-12-2006, 02:31 PM

When the Reds make trades it seemingly always is announced in the mid to late afternoon. Around 5pm is always popular with them. Somebody always slips it here first.

EddieMilner

07-12-2006, 02:51 PM

Frankly I don't care, I'm just stating a fact.

So how bout you getting over yourself?

sweet comeback.

REDSEER

07-12-2006, 03:05 PM

I was just reading the ESPN main board when a normal Reds poster (I actually remembered his username) posted that he heard on XM that Dontrelle could still be traded.....the thread was immediately deleted.....it's weird how they are treating this rumor, but IMO I don't think the trade goes down...

I do think that Kearns will be traded in the next few days, though.....

1460 the fan says that the Reds will unveil a franchise ground breaking trade that was the biggest deal since the AROD deal. I think it's gonna be a 3 way deal, I really do.

I'd be happy with keeping what we have, and adding a quality starter or two, much like when we got Juan Guzman for the stretch in 99, that was awesome.

dabvu2498

07-12-2006, 03:10 PM

in Columbus on the radio = on Redszone in this thread

NatiRedGals

07-12-2006, 03:10 PM

Anthoer post

GoRedsGo21
GCL Reds (R)
Posts: 15
(7/12/06 3:58:43 am)
Reply
Jim Day on 1460 The Fan You can listen to Jim Day talk to Herbstreit about a trade. He says he feels as if a trade is coming from just being around the team. He also says he has no real information on a trade actually taking place though. He did say if the Reds do make a trade it will be for a big name player though. Oh well if you want to listen click the link and scroll down to where it says the big show. After that click on the link where it says 4-5pm (should be a wma link). After that go to about 24 or 25 minutes and Day should begin talking about the team. Hopefully you all can get it to work (sorry if my instructions suck, im not the brigtest).

what was awesome about the guzman trade, the fact that we did not make the playoffs or that we gave up ryan

Raisor

07-12-2006, 03:17 PM

The most depressing thing about this thread is that I was never mentioned once.

Red Leader

07-12-2006, 03:18 PM

The most depressing thing about this thread is that I was never mentioned once.

I thought you were one of the insignificant prospects headed to Florida. :mooner:

NatiRedGals

07-12-2006, 03:18 PM

The most depressing thing about this thread is that I was never mentioned once.

Anthor thing is that the whole word is learning of this rumour has to be a pretty darn big one i mean the higher ups have to know now and ya its weird it seems everytime someones say d-train is on the block espn deltes that post:eek:

fielder's choice

07-12-2006, 03:19 PM

The most depressing thing about this thread is that I was never mentioned once.

Get over yourself...:mooner:

NatiRedGals

07-12-2006, 03:24 PM

From: h8cards Jul-11 5:37 pm
To: Jay Vlademio unread (7 of 27)
27735.7 in reply to 27735.1
just heard on 1460 the fan in columbus , there is a block buster trade in the in the works for the reds ,as early as this weekend . they gave no names or teams involved , 1460 is an affiliate of espn so who knows how much there is to it .

Raisor

07-12-2006, 03:26 PM

I thought you were one of the insignificant prospects headed to Florida. :mooner:

1460 the fan says that the Reds will unveil a franchise ground breaking trade that was the biggest deal since the AROD deal. I think it's gonna be a 3 way deal, I really do.

I'd be happy with keeping what we have, and adding a quality starter or two, much like when we got Juan Guzman for the stretch in 99, that was awesome.

Well, now that seems a little more likely. Willis for Kearns and prospects. Bailey perhaps?

Blue

07-12-2006, 03:27 PM

I'm actually kinda glad someone just made this up. After thinking about it, I wouldn't want to trade Bailey for Willis. Willis' low K-rate worries me. I'm not even sure he'll be a #1 starter the next few years. He may not even be now.

Tejada, on the other hand, would have been an awesome acquisition.

What I'd really like to do is trade Edwin Encarnacion for a young major league starter, like Ervin Santana. We really need someone to go along with Homer when he is ready.

Red Leader

07-12-2006, 03:31 PM

What I'd really like to do is trade Edwin Encarnacion for a young major league starter, like Ervin Santana. We really need someone to go along with Homer when he is ready.

Since Narron's contract has been extended and he doesn't appear to be too high on Edwin's defense, that might not be a bad deal.

If we could have a 2008 rotation of:

Arroyo
Harang
Bailey
Pitcher acquired for EE
Travis Wood

I think we'd definately be in the wild card hunt (at least) all season. I believe 2008 is Arroyo's last season under contract. Hopefully, we'll sign Harang to an extension. Bailey should be in the rotatoin to start 2008, and I'm guessing Travis Wood makes the rotation at some point that season. That's the year I'm looking to and will be disappointed if we don't make the post season that year.

ITHIKABAND

07-12-2006, 03:41 PM

After reading through many posts which I'm sure are highly fabricated about us aquiring this mega superstar deal. Has anyone on here heard anything on radio or news to verify that. Many people on Espn's message board were throwing out radio station names all over the tri sate saying that they heard there was a big trade coming up for the reds. Has any one heard this as well? I will be listening to The Furball (Andy Furman) tonight and making a call in to see If there is any truth to this wet dream of a trade some folks have fabricated. Has anyone heard anything solid? And can you remeber the last time this rumor started about 2 months ago Kearns for Cabrera and Willis, yeah right!!! Some people never quit...

Caveat Emperor

07-12-2006, 03:46 PM

Since Narron's contract has been extended and he doesn't appear to be too high on Edwin's defense, that might not be a bad deal.

If we could have a 2008 rotation of:

Arroyo
Harang
Bailey
Pitcher acquired for EE
Travis Wood

I think we'd definately be in the wild card hunt (at least) all season. I believe 2008 is Arroyo's last season under contract. Hopefully, we'll sign Harang to an extension. Bailey should be in the rotatoin to start 2008, and I'm guessing Travis Wood makes the rotation at some point that season. That's the year I'm looking to and will be disappointed if we don't make the post season that year.

I'll FCB-Guarantee that Travis Wood won't be a member of the Reds rotation in 2008.

That'd require that he'd jump from low-A ball to the bigs in under 2 years. He'll take a full year at Sarasota next year, I think, and then a full year at Chattanooga before possibly hitting the major league squad in 2009-ish, if everything stays on track.

If you're looking at 2008, the guy who SHOULD be on a fast track towards the big leagues is Zach "Wormburner" Ward. He's a college pitcher who does nothing but throw groundballs. He should be in High-A right now, and if he makes the leap down to Sarasota this year, he could be on track to do a full year at Chattanooga next year before possibly seeing Cincinnati in 2008.

Looking at 2007/2008 is what the team needs to be doing, if they are plaining to hang onto Homer. As nice as getting Willis would be, I'd like to see the Reds try to get another good pitching prospect that's on Bailey's timetable -- ready for the bigs in early-mid 2008. It'd be nice to have a Zito-Mulder-Hudson "embarassment of riches" situation occur around here for a change.

BUTLER REDSFAN

07-12-2006, 03:48 PM

has there really been 527 posts based on someone's made up story?? sheesh

Handofdeath

07-12-2006, 03:53 PM

I'm actually kinda glad someone just made this up. After thinking about it, I wouldn't want to trade Bailey for Willis. Willis' low K-rate worries me. I'm not even sure he'll be a #1 starter the next few years. He may not even be one now.

You have got to be kidding me. Willis led the NL last year in wins, shutouts and complete games with an ERA of 2.63 which was 3rd in the NL. 2nd in the Cy Young voting and some people feel like he should have won. But to you he's not a #1 starter? That is the epitome of a #1 starter and if it takes sending the Reds top pitching prospect( who by the way hasn't even pitched a day in AAA yet) then the Reds should jump on it.

westofyou

07-12-2006, 04:07 PM

sweet comeback.
Thank's... your mouth sure is purty.

Blue

07-12-2006, 04:10 PM

You have got to be kidding me. Willis led the NL last year in wins, shutouts and complete games with an ERA of 2.63 which was 3rd in the NL. 2nd in the Cy Young voting and some people feel like he should have won. But to you he's not a #1 starter? That is the epitome of a #1 starter and if it takes sending the Reds top pitching prospect( who by the way hasn't even pitched a day in AAA yet) then the Reds should jump on it.

Well, he certainly pitched like a #1 starter last year. However, he's on his way to his second season with more hits allowed than innings pitched, is giving up the long ball more frequently than at any time in his career, and is striking out a measly 5.55/9. His 9.85 H/9 rate and 1.41 WHIP are the worst of his career.

All of that, coupled with the fact that he's a free agent in a couple years, makes me reluctant to trade possibly the best pitching prospect in the game.

KronoRed

07-12-2006, 04:10 PM

has there really been 527 posts based on someone's made up story?? sheesh
Hey..we've had 100,000 on someone being bored!

CincyFan

07-12-2006, 04:12 PM

From: h8cards Jul-11 5:37 pm
To: Jay Vlademio unread (7 of 27)
27735.7 in reply to 27735.1
just heard on 1460 the fan in columbus , there is a block buster trade in the in the works for the reds ,as early as this weekend . they gave no names or teams involved , 1460 is an affiliate of espn so who knows how much there is to it .

Anyone in here listening to that station?

Handofdeath

07-12-2006, 04:14 PM

Well, he certainly pitched like a #1 starter last year. However, he's on his way to his second season with more hits allowed than innings pitched, is giving up the long ball more frequently than at any time in his career, and is striking out a measly 5.55/9. His 9.85 H/9 rate and 1.41 WHIP are the worst of his career.

All of that, coupled with the fact that he's a free agent in a couple years, makes me reluctant to trade possibly the best pitching prospect in the game.

Yes but the key word is prospect. Keep in mind he's pitching in a situation that he knows he's got no chance to be in the playoffs AND he knows he's not going to be there next year. And I don't hear a lot of people complaining about Dunn's stats being down and how he's not the player he was. Except me and I complained before they went down.:devil:

goreds2

07-12-2006, 04:19 PM

what was awesome about the guzman trade, the fact that we did not make the playoffs or that we gave up ryan

I remember he pitched a terrible game against the Brewers the last Saturday of the 99 season. He wins that, we go to the playoffs. :angry:

RedsFanatic

07-12-2006, 04:21 PM

I thought it was Scott Sullivan that blew the lead, which put us in the tiebreaker game with the Mets.

dunner13

07-12-2006, 04:22 PM

Either way we gave up a future stud closer who would look really good coming out of the pen right now for a SP who didnt get us to the playoffs or help us after that.

RedEye

07-12-2006, 04:33 PM

Either way we gave up a future stud closer who would look really good coming out of the pen right now for a SP who didnt get us to the playoffs or help us after that.

Hindsight is 20/20. I still like the Guzman trade. It was what the '99 club needed to make it VERY interesting all the way to the end. There are no guarantees that you will win it all, but sometimes you have to take a chance. Look at it this way: at least we didn't give up Joe Nathan, Boof Bonser and Francisco Liriano for AJ Pierzynski.. or Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano!

Red Leader

07-12-2006, 04:38 PM

Hindsight is 20/20. I still like the Guzman trade. It was what the '99 club needed to make it VERY interesting all the way to the end. There are no guarantees that you will win it all, but sometimes you have to take a chance. Look at it this way: at least we didn't give up Joe Nathan, Boof Bonser and Francisco Liriano for AJ Pierzynski.. or Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano!

You're right those were bad deals, but I still don't see how you can be excited about giving up B.J. Ryan an absolute freaking stud closer for 8-9 games of Guzman. IMO, that deal is just as bad as the two you mentioned above. The only difference is that Liriano and Kazmir are starters, not relievers.

KronoRed

07-12-2006, 04:40 PM

Ryan wouldn't have been on this team, anyway think Dan O would have given him that large deal last year?

Red Leader

07-12-2006, 04:42 PM

Ryan wouldn't have been on this team, anyway think Dan O would have given him that large deal last year?

No, you're right, but imagine what we could have gotten in return for him by trading him prior to last year's deadline...

KronoRed

07-12-2006, 04:44 PM

Again..Dan O :D

I liked the deal and I still don't mind it, 50/50 says Ryan doesn't even turn out for us, and in 99 without Guzman we fall a few games short and a riot breaks out for not trying to win.

RANDY IN INDY

07-12-2006, 04:44 PM

No, you're right, but imagine what we could have gotten in return for him by trading him prior to last year's deadline...

Probably not much. Ryan would have already had a couple of dates with Doc Hollywood if he had been pitching for the Reds.

Blue

07-12-2006, 04:45 PM

Yes but the key word is prospect. Keep in mind he's pitching in a situation that he knows he's got no chance to be in the playoffs AND he knows he's not going to be there next year. And I don't hear a lot of people complaining about Dunn's stats being down and how he's not the player he was. Except me and I complained before they went down.:devil:

I don't really get what you're saying here. Can you clarify?

bounty37h

07-12-2006, 05:00 PM

I hear Boston has a kid, a pitcher, Ruth, that can really knock the crap out of the ball as well as pitch-unknown, he prob hits better then he pitches. I say we make a package deal for him-he must be a young'in, as they call him Babe. We better hurry with an offer though, hear the Yanks are on to him and making a move...

Handofdeath

07-12-2006, 05:21 PM

I don't really get what you're saying here. Can you clarify?

Absolutely. First, Bailey looks like he could be great but he's never pitched above AA. There is no guarantee that he will do anything in the majors. Look at Greinke or Ankiel. AAA is a long way from the Bigs and Bailey has not even pitched in AAA yet.
Second, Willis is pitching in a difficult situation this year. He knows he's not going to be in Florida much longer and he has no idea where he will wind up. He might also be thinking that if he does stay in Florida there is no chance that the Marlins are going anywhere for at least a few more years.

22 game winner last year. If we can get him by trading a prospect(and there is a reason they call them prospects) the Reds should jump on it.

Ltlabner

07-12-2006, 05:24 PM

Absolutely. First, Bailey looks like he could be great but he's never pitched above AA. There is no guarantee that he will do anything in the majors. Look at Greinke or Ankiel. AAA is a long way from the Bigs and Bailey has not even pitched in AAA yet.

Great point! Besides, if Bailey had the powers some have given him, he'd have to fight it out with Deno for control of the solar system. That, or join forces fighting evil. Sorta like "Super Friends" but without that crappy Aqua-Man.

Aronchis

07-12-2006, 05:33 PM

Great point! Besides, if Bailey had the powers some have given him, he'd have to fight it out with Deno for control of the solar system. That, or join forces fighting evil. Sorta like "Super Friends" but without that crappy Aqua-Man.

Guys that can pop 97mph fastballs with the flick of the wrist are usually hyped up and for a good reason.

registerthis

07-12-2006, 05:43 PM

Guys that can pop 97mph fastballs with the flick of the wrist are usually hyped up and for a good reason.

Guys that can pop 97mph fastballs but lack any type of offspeed pitch are usually lit up in the majors, and for a good reason.

RedEye

07-12-2006, 05:47 PM

You're right those were bad deals, but I still don't see how you can be excited about giving up B.J. Ryan an absolute freaking stud closer for 8-9 games of Guzman. IMO, that deal is just as bad as the two you mentioned above. The only difference is that Liriano and Kazmir are starters, not relievers.

What I'm saying is that it's all well and good to say that now, but at the time the deal made sense. In the cases of AJ and Zambrano, neither deal even helped the team that much AND they gave up good prospects. In our case, the deal definitely did help us. Sure, in hindsight it might not look so good, but that's why prospects are called prospects: sometimes they DO pan out. It took Ryan a pretty long time to turn into a stud closer and who knows if he would have done so were he still with the Reds.

Aronchis

07-12-2006, 07:19 PM

Guys that can pop 97mph fastballs but lack any type of offspeed pitch are usually lit up in the majors, and for a good reason.

Bailey doesn't lack a offspeed pitch, that is your problem, you don't get that. It is about consistacy from that POV, which is on track. Mercy.

mound_patrol

07-12-2006, 07:21 PM

I completely agree with handofdeath. We are all hoping that bailey will blossom into a number one pitcher. But who knows what will happen. Willis is already proven he is a front of the rotation guy. So why wouldn't you trade a prospect for a number one. Bailey couldn't be much more then what Willis already is

Ltlabner

07-12-2006, 07:21 PM

Guys that can pop 97mph fastballs with the flick of the wrist are usually hyped up and for a good reason.

Hype is nice, but this guarentees his success in the major leagues how?

Caveat Emperor

07-12-2006, 07:45 PM

Bailey doesn't lack a offspeed pitch, that is your problem, you don't get that. It is about consistacy from that POV, which is on track. Mercy.

Semantics. He doesn't "lack" an offspeed pitch, he lacks a usuable offspeed pitch that compliments his other pitches (plus 4-seamer, plus 12-6 curve). I recall reading that he's having trouble masking the delivery of his change and that it gets telegraphed badly in its current form. That he is working on correcting that flaw doesn't negate the fact that, right now, he lacks the ability to throw that pitch at a ML level.

Unless I'm seeing different scouting reports than everyone else.

cincyinco

07-12-2006, 08:29 PM

Semantics. He doesn't "lack" an offspeed pitch, he lacks a usuable offspeed pitch that compliments his other pitches (plus 4-seamer, plus 12-6 curve). I recall reading that he's having trouble masking the delivery of his change and that it gets telegraphed badly in its current form. That he is working on correcting that flaw doesn't negate the fact that, right now, he lacks the ability to throw that pitch at a ML level.

Unless I'm seeing different scouting reports than everyone else.

Funny, everything I've read says that although he is working primarily off his plus fastball this year, that his offspeed offerings have greatly improved, and that his changeup is right now, average to slightly above. I think Homer has made great strides this year, and I fully expect him to continue improvment for his other offerings.

jmac

07-12-2006, 08:59 PM

just got in from work and rather than read overall posts since last nite, was the "big trade speculation " proven false ??

cincyinco

07-12-2006, 09:02 PM

seems to be a baseless rumor jmac..

Jpup

07-12-2006, 09:02 PM

just got in from work and rather than read overall posts since last nite, was the "big trade speculation " proven false ??

It's got about as much chance of happening as the Reds getting Johan Santana.:help:

jmac

07-12-2006, 09:25 PM

though it seemed far fetched something seemed strange over weekend.
jn knowing how bad our bullpen is and with milton on mound and pulling griff in 4th.then not playing him sunday.just seemed odd to me.

Tommyjohn25

07-12-2006, 09:29 PM

though it seemed far fetched something seemed strange over weekend.
jn knowing how bad our bullpen is and with milton on mound and pulling griff in 4th.then not playing him sunday.just seemed odd to me.

I still don't doubt that SOMETHING is going on, for the reasons you stated among others. I just don't think it'll be the "rumor" from the espn boards. Kearns for Westbrook wouldn't surprise me one bit.

RedsMan3203

07-12-2006, 09:37 PM

And we keep going, and going and going.

Tony Armas JR is on the block.... Mr. K should give JimBo a call....

corkedbat

07-12-2006, 09:49 PM

Since Narron's contract has been extended and he doesn't appear to be too high on Edwin's defense, that might not be a bad deal.

If we could have a 2008 rotation of:

Arroyo
Harang
Bailey
Pitcher acquired for EE
Travis Wood

I think we'd definately be in the wild card hunt (at least) all season. I believe 2008 is Arroyo's last season under contract. Hopefully, we'll sign Harang to an extension. Bailey should be in the rotatoin to start 2008, and I'm guessing Travis Wood makes the rotation at some point that season. That's the year I'm looking to and will be disappointed if we don't make the post season that year.

I actually expect Zach Ward to be the starter after Homer to get an extended shot in the rotation.

I know I've read where some here have posted that he's best suited for the pen, but with his apparent makeup and college experience - if he can continue his extreme propensity for throwing ground balls, I'd give him a shot at the bottom of the rotation first.

I know that they haven't really challenged him yet, but I think that will change soon and excelerate next year.

Blue

07-12-2006, 10:19 PM

And we keep going, and going and going.

Tony Armas JR is on the block.... Mr. K should give JimBo a call....

Where did you hear that?

dabvu2498

07-12-2006, 10:21 PM

Where did you hear that?
ESPN (Steve Phillips) listed 5 Nats who are on the block. Soriano, Guillen, and Armas, Jr. were the 3 I heard.

Blue

07-12-2006, 10:21 PM

I actually expect Zach Ward to be the starter after Homer to get an extended shot in the rotation.

I know I've read where some here have posted that he's best suited for the pen, but with his apparent makeup and college experience - if he can continue his extreme propensity for throwing ground balls, I'd give him a shot at the bottom of the rotation first.

I know that they haven't really challenged him yet, but I think that will change soon and excelerate next year.

The reason they were considering using him out of the bullpen is because he has a shortarm delivery that some think could lead to an arm injury. I think the jury is still out on what his role will ultimately be. I'll bet he stays a starter. Sure could use a promotion.

Blue

07-12-2006, 10:21 PM

ESPN (Steve Phillips) listed 5 Nats who are on the block. Soriano, Guillen, and Armas, Jr. were the 3 I heard.

okay, thanks.

He allegedly requested Lastings Milledge in exchange for Livan Hernandez, so there's no telling what he'd want. Worth a phone call, though.

reds44

07-12-2006, 10:26 PM

Armas and Soriano for Dunn?

I am just throwing it out there to get people's thoughts. I would have to look at some stats to see if I would do it or not.

I know JimBo loves Dunn.

*ducks*

KoryMac5

07-12-2006, 10:33 PM

Armas and Soriano for Dunn?

I am just throwing it out there to get people's thoughts. I would have to look at some stats to see if I would do it or not.

I know JimBo loves Dunn.

*ducks*

Soriano for Dunn was thrown out at the beginning of the year by Bowden to Dan O who turned it down flat. I want no part of a Soriano rental.

reds44

07-12-2006, 10:34 PM

Soriano for Dunn was thrown out at the beginning of the year by Bowden to Dan O who turned it down flat. I want no part of a Soriano rental.
What if you could resign him?

RedsFanatic

07-12-2006, 10:42 PM

I would do that in a second. Soriano is a better fielder, hitter and baserunner than Dunn.

Blue

07-12-2006, 10:46 PM

What if you could resign him?

Its pretty much a no-brainer if you could resign him. We'd probably have to give a little more.

RedsMan3203

07-12-2006, 11:03 PM

ESPN (Steve Phillips) listed 5 Nats who are on the block. Soriano, Guillen, and Armas, Jr. were the 3 I heard.

Soriano, Guillen, Armas, Hernandez and Vidro....

I think those were the 5....

Would mind asking about Patterson and Gary Mesjestki(spelling)

Jpup

07-12-2006, 11:33 PM

Armas and Soriano for Dunn?

I am just throwing it out there to get people's thoughts. I would have to look at some stats to see if I would do it or not.

I know JimBo loves Dunn.

*ducks*

I would boycott.:thumbdown :thumbdown

Jpup

07-12-2006, 11:34 PM

I would do that in a second. Soriano is a better fielder, hitter and baserunner than Dunn.

don't let facts get in the way.

Jpup

07-12-2006, 11:38 PM

Alfonso Soriano 2006 .888 OPS
Adam Dunn 2006 .916 OPS

KronoRed

07-12-2006, 11:39 PM

Soriano has the higher bat avg I guess ;)

They will get a load from some foolish team for him, it won't (thankfully) be us

Blue

07-12-2006, 11:45 PM

Alfonso Soriano 2006 .888 OPS
Adam Dunn 2006 .916 OPS

Yeah, but Soriano can swipe 35 bases, is a faster baserunner, and by virtue of his great speed has the potential to become a very good outfielder. The only downside is his age and the fact that he would be a free agent.

Jpup

07-12-2006, 11:50 PM

Yeah, but Soriano can swipe 35 bases, is a faster baserunner, and by virtue of his great speed has the potential to become a very good outfielder. The only downside is his age and the fact that he would be a free agent.

I've got the potential to be the President.

You have to get on base to steal bases. Dunn hits enough extra base hits to make up for the steals. stolen bases are highly overrated.

savafan

07-12-2006, 11:53 PM

Why would ESPN delete threads off of their message board about a baseless rumor? That just doesn't make sense.

RedsMan3203

07-12-2006, 11:54 PM

But, of course i'm very interested in what JimBo would want for Armas.....

Jpup

07-12-2006, 11:56 PM

But, of course i'm very interested in what JimBo would want for Armas.....

Lastings Milledge. :D

Austin Kearns probably, which would be a bad idea for the Reds.

Jpup

07-12-2006, 11:57 PM

Why would ESPN delete threads off of their message board about a baseless rumor? That just doesn't make sense.

it doesn't involve the Red Sox? :evil:

Blue

07-12-2006, 11:58 PM

I've got the potential to be the President.

You have to get on base to steal bases. Dunn hits enough extra base hits to make up for the steals. stolen bases are highly overrated.

So far this season Soriano has more XBHs than Dunn. He did last season as well. You have to get on base to steal bases? Well, he's stolen 20 so far this season, so I guess he's been on base enough to steal that many.

Jpup

07-13-2006, 12:02 AM

So far this season Soriano has more XBHs than Dunn. He did last season as well. You have to get on base to steal bases? Well, he's stolen 20 so far this season, so I guess he's been on base enough to steal that many.

he makes too many outs for me.

RedsMan3203

07-13-2006, 12:03 AM

Austin Kearns probably, which would be a bad idea for the Reds.

Well Armas is on the DL right now. Been on the DL for almost a month with a Strained Right Forearm...

I think I'd do it... Even with Armas on the DL I think....

He'd have to throw in Jon Rauch or Gary Majewski or Both or someone else into the deal to make it happen....

MartyFan

07-13-2006, 12:13 AM

Wow...this thread is still going!

Too funny...so what do we know now? Anything happening?

NatiRedGals

07-13-2006, 12:14 AM

Why would ESPN delete threads off of their message board about a baseless rumor? That just doesn't make sense.

Only reason i believe some of the rumor has to be true usally they just leave that type of crap alone i mean its for the fans:beerme:

NatiRedGals

07-13-2006, 12:15 AM

Wow...this thread is still going!

Too funny...so what do we know now? Anything happening?

We offically know that Chris Hammond has cleared waviers:laugh:

Blue

07-13-2006, 12:17 AM

Wow...this thread is still going!

Too funny...so what do we know now? Anything happening?

I didn't even realize that this was the same thread! :laugh:

MartyFan

07-13-2006, 12:17 AM

We offically know that Chris Hammond has cleared waviers:laugh:

Nice...wonder if we can get Scott Sullivan back?

NatiRedGals

07-13-2006, 12:21 AM

You have to look at this thread on espn your gonna laugh your asses of excuse my language but its just that funny hahaa:mooner:

Great point! Besides, if Bailey had the powers some have given him, he'd have to fight it out with Deno for control of the solar system. That, or join forces fighting evil. Sorta like "Super Friends" but without that crappy Aqua-Man.

Wait a minute! The ability to talk to fish would be highly useful! :laugh:

I knew there was a reason I stopped going to the ESPN board as soon as i discovered this site...

Gainesville Red

07-13-2006, 01:12 AM

I knew there was a reason I stopped going to the ESPN board as soon as i discovered this site...

It is funny to think about. I've been spoiled for so long that I forget how crappy other places are. Then something like this happens and I check out the other boards and go, "What is this crap? I can't believe I used to read this stuff daily."

Nice work RedsZone.:thumbup:

KronoRed

07-13-2006, 01:14 AM

I found this place via it being slammed on the ESPN boards ;)

johngalt

07-13-2006, 01:28 AM

Alfonso Soriano 2006 .888 OPS
Adam Dunn 2006 .916 OPS

Also of note:

Soriano - 30 years old (31 in January)
Dunn - 26 years old (27 in November)

Bobcat J

07-13-2006, 07:21 AM

Also of note:

Soriano - 30 years old (31 in January)
Dunn - 26 years old (27 in November)

It's so wierd that Soriano is 30. It seems like just two years ago he was 26. ;)

bounty37h

07-13-2006, 11:32 AM

I've got the potential to be the President.

You have to get on base to steal bases. Dunn hits enough extra base hits to make up for the steals. stolen bases are highly overrated.

(sigh), kids today. Where has baseball gone?

westofyou

07-13-2006, 11:33 AM

(sigh), kids today. Where has baseball gone?
Adults today.... where has historical knowledge of the game gone.

bounty37h

07-13-2006, 11:37 AM

Adults today.... where has historical knowledge of the game gone.

whats your point?

westofyou

07-13-2006, 11:43 AM

whats your point?
That slugging percentage increases in the game are always matched by a decline in steals.

What's yours?

Other than to imply that "kids today are dumb?"

bounty37h

07-13-2006, 11:47 AM

Well, the Reds won more at the begining of the season, when the small ball was more prominent in the game then relying just on the slugging it out with the long ball, which isnt consistant, even though always a threat with us. Yeah, I know, chiz dig the long ball.
I am only 31, was being more a smart-a$$ with the kids comment.

westofyou

07-13-2006, 11:50 AM

Actually a .361 team OB% in April has alot more to do with the winning then "small ball"

registerthis

07-13-2006, 11:54 AM

Bailey doesn't lack a offspeed pitch, that is your problem, you don't get that. It is about consistacy from that POV, which is on track. Mercy.

So while Bailey is throwing 97-mph fastballs and shutting down Class AA Southern League opponents, he still has to work on other pitches, his quickness in delivering the ball to the plate, covering first base and other sundry skills.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sport...106inside.html

He still has plenty of room for projection, and Bailey will need to improve his changeup and get stronger

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...irstround.html

"I believe that we're on the right track with this kid, not rushing him," Owens said before the game. "In my level he's able to go to his fastball to get out of trouble. Major league level, he may not be able to do that so much. He really needs to tweak his off-speed stuff, especially his changeup."

After Sunday's game, Owens said his point had been proven in Bailey's one inning of work. Bailey picked up the win in the USA team's 8-5 victory, but gave up two hits and a run.

It's not MY problem, buddy, it's BAILEY'S problem. He may have an off-speed pitch, but it's apparently far from perfected, and he's obviously not comfortable using it. Do your homework before you call someone out next time.

membengal

07-13-2006, 11:56 AM

Saying he has NO offspeed pitch is different then him working to improve his off-speed stuff.

redsfan30

07-13-2006, 11:58 AM

It's not MY problem, buddy, it's BAILEY'S problem. He may have an off-speed pitch, but it's apparently far from perfected, and he's obviously not comfortable using it. Do your homework before you call someone out next time.
The reason he threw nothing but fastballs was he had a blister break on his finger.

registerthis

07-13-2006, 11:58 AM

Saying he has NO offspeed pitch, is different then him working to improve his off-speed stuff.

No offspeed pitch that he could use in the majors.

I'm certain that he is working on it, but right now, he doesn't have an offspeed pitch that he can effectively use. Which is the same as not having one, if you can't use it.

bounty37h

07-13-2006, 11:59 AM

Actually a .361 team OB% in April has alot more to do with the winning then "small ball"

You dont see any correlation to getting on base and stealing, eliminating DP's, and advancing base position?

registerthis

07-13-2006, 12:00 PM

The reason he threw nothing but fastballs was he had a blister break on his finger.

Even when he's blister-less, the scouting reports I have read indicate that he relies predominantly on his fastball, and that his off-speed stuff has not reached the point where he can consistently get runners out.

westofyou

07-13-2006, 12:07 PM

You dont see any correlation to getting on base and stealing, eliminating DP's, and advancing base position?

So, 66 stolen bases in 3 months is irrelevant and overrated?
No, not at all, but it's not the base that makes the offense humm, nor is "small ball.

bounty37h

07-13-2006, 12:12 PM

did you even read what prompted me to start this, i was responding to a post that said stolen bases are overrated.

westofyou

07-13-2006, 12:16 PM

did you even read what prompted me to start this, i was responding to a post that said stolen bases are overrated.
And the can be if you plop a low slugging percentage player who can only steal into a corner position.

But hey forget the over rate part, aquiring bases is never overrated, doing it at the expense of other skill sets is.

One thing for sure is Small Ball sure the hell is overrated..

bounty37h

07-13-2006, 12:18 PM

OK, tired of arguing a pointless fight- I will give in, call it even, we both agree acquiring bases is not overrated, and move on, agree to disagree. Good luck to you.

TRF

07-13-2006, 12:20 PM

He read it. did you read his response. I'll word it in reverse, kinda:

23 steals in April - .361 ob% Team made an out 64% of the time
20 steals in May - .325 ob% Team made an out 68% of the time
23 steals in June - .345 ob% Team made an out 65% of the time

April was a good month. Higher OBP
June was a bad month. Lower OBP

The amount of steals was pretty consistant.

westofyou

07-13-2006, 12:25 PM

OK, tired of arguing a pointless fight- I will give in, call it even, we both agree acquiring bases is not overrated, and move on, agree to disagree. Good luck to you.
It's a mallable position that really depends on game situations and the current state of the game.

For instance I like steals, I like what the threat of a steal can do to any game at anytime, I just don't want to leverage that part of the game into the main resource for runs. I'd prefer the Earl Weaver method of getting that part of the game from the guys that can provide that, but Earl also prefered a 3 run inning over a 1 run inning. Small ball has its moments.. but it's still an out for a base approach at compiling runs, and it gets you closer to two positions at the same time... One the end of the game and two- One single run.

In todays game you just have to figure out when that trade really behooves your team, and on a team with a bullpen like the Reds playing for one run is a tighttrope walk over a pit of sharks being ridden by hungry grizzly bears.

bounty37h

07-13-2006, 12:29 PM

It's a mallable position that really depends on game situations and the current state of the game.

For instance I like steals, I like what the threat of a steal can do to any game at anytime, I just don't want to leverage that part of the game into the main resource for runs. I'd prefer the Earl Weaver method of getting that part of the game from the guys that can provide that, but Earl also prefered a 3 run inning over a 1 run inning. Small ball has its moments.. but it's still an out for a base approach at compiling runs, and it gets you closer to two positions at the same time... One the end of the game and two- One single run.

In todays game you just have to figure out when that trade really behooves your team, and on a team with a bullpen like the Reds playing for one run is a tighttrope walk over a pit of sharks being ridden by hungry grizzly bears.

OK, now I see we agree, just going about it in different ways. I was saying what you said above, basically, by stating the poster who said stolen bases are overrated. I wasnt defending the trade proposal by any means that led to that statement, and in retrospect, should have stated that, but was simply defending against the stolen bases are pointless idea.

Razor Shines

07-13-2006, 12:29 PM

It's a mallable position that really depends on game situations and the current state of the game.

For instance I like steals, I like what the threat of a steal can do to any game at anytime, I just don't want to leverage that part of the game into the main resource for runs. I'd prefer the Earl Weaver method of getting that part of the game from the guys that can provide that, but Earl also prefered a 3 run inning over a 1 run inning. Small ball has its moments.. but it's still an out for a base approach at compiling runs, and it gets you closer to two positions at the same time... One the end of the game and two- One single run.

In todays game you just have to figure out when that trade really behooves your team, and on a team with a bullpen like the Reds playing for one run is a tighttrope walk over a pit of sharks being ridden by hungry grizzly bears.
Isn't that a ride a Disney Land?

Handofdeath

07-13-2006, 12:51 PM

whats your point?

Now see here, this was a happy thread. Don't bring your negative vibes here. The Great Pumpkin will only give us Tejeda and Willis if we are sincere and positive with one another.

tsj017

07-13-2006, 12:58 PM

Anyone else notice this in today's Enquirer? From an article assessing the Central Division at midseason. No author credited, other than "Enquirer Staff Report". Does someone know something? Or has someone at the Enquirer just been reading this thread? Hmmmm.

Outlook: If Eric Milton finds consistency (the rotation isnít deep), and Eddie Guardado can be a savior in the bullpen, they can make a serious run. A lot also depends on whether the team chemistry is affected by a possible blockbuster trade.

Handofdeath

07-13-2006, 01:04 PM

Anyone else notice this in today's Enquirer? From an article assessing the Central Division at midseason. No author credited, other than "Enquirer Staff Report". Does someone know something? Or has someone at the Enquirer just been reading this thread? Hmmmm.

Obviosuly Kearns is gone. But who goes with him and who do the Reds get?

That three way trade is looking just the least little more likely now isn't it?

Handofdeath

07-13-2006, 01:07 PM

Isn't that a ride a Disney Land?

No but I know what is

bounty37h

07-13-2006, 01:08 PM

Now see here, this was a happy thread. Don't bring your negative vibes here. The Great Pumpkin will only give us Tejeda and Willis if we are sincere and positive with one another.

No negative vibes from me! Not sure I want Tejeda, but c'mon down Willis!!!

Jpup

07-13-2006, 01:08 PM

Obviosuly Kearns is gone. But who goes with him and who do the Reds get? That three way trade is looking just the least little more likely now isn't it?

based on what, speculation from a writer?

Handofdeath

07-13-2006, 01:14 PM

based on what, speculation from a writer?

He is not the first writer to mention a possible trade and there is some internet scuttlebutt going around. Read the last 600 posts and you'll know what I mean. But why would a Cincy writer even mention the possibility? Wouldn't he or she know what people would do, say, and think?

Razor Shines

07-13-2006, 01:38 PM

Never mind.

Handofdeath

07-13-2006, 01:43 PM

This is the lead story on Reds.mlb.com.

CINCINNATI -- When he assumed control of the Reds back in January, chief executive officer Bob Castellini was asked if he'd be willing to go over budget to improve his new team.
"If we're into the middle of July and we're a contender, we're going to have to go with it and bite the bullet," Castellini said during a January press conference.

One look at the National League Central standings indicates the surprising Reds have held up their end of the bargain on the field. With the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline within sight, Castellini was prepared to honor his commitment.

"We made that commitment early on. We're contenders," Castellini said.

"I liked some of the comments some of the players made earlier in the year," Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky said. "They wanted to put ownership and the front office in a position where we would go out and be proactive. That's a good position for us to be in."

In his first year in Cincinnati, Krivsky has already swung several key trades. With the exception of his March acquisition of pitcher Bronson Arroyo, most of have been under the radar. David Ross was an unheralded catcher at San Diego and second baseman Brandon Phillips was at a career crossroads in Cleveland until Cincinnati traded for him in April.

The acquisitions have paid off. But the Reds' early flurry of moves does not guarantee more trades will be happen in the coming days or weeks.

"It has to make sense," Krivsky said. "You have to take recommendations to ownership and explain to them why you think it's right. They have every right to ask questions."

Castellini made it clear that he trusted Krivsky's baseball sense.

"We talk about general direction," Castellini said. "[Krivsky] goes out and sees what he can accomplish and we talk about it again. He's the primary generator of the energy. He's the one talking to 29 GMs every day."

The Reds' weaknesses are no secret. Their bullpen is one of the Majors' worst and the team's defense also ranks near the bottom.

Krivsky's first move in an effort to remedy the bullpen came on July 6, when the Reds acquired veteran reliever Eddie Guardado from the Mariners for Minor League pitcher Travis Chick. Guardado will assume the closer's role in a move the club hopes will help bring stability.

It's likely that more bullpen help could be sought if another match with a club can be found, which sometimes is easier said than done.

"People are going to hang on to quality pitching," Krivsky said. "You have to hope you find somebody that's maybe in a rut somewhere and maybe a change of scenery helps."

complete coverage >Another common avenue for help could be from struggling clubs looking to dump veterans and salary. The Orioles could be willing to shop right-hander LaTroy Hawkins, who was once a dominant setup man for Minnesota when Krivsky was assistant GM there. Hawkins is in the final year of a contract paying him $4.4 million this season.

Other names that could draw interest are Washington's Mike Stanton and Pittsburgh's Salomon Torres and Damaso Marte. Indians closer Bob Wickman, making $5 million, could be on the market if struggling Cleveland becomes a seller. The Angels, trying to stay alive in the AL West race, are deep with bullpen talent that includes right-handers Brendan Donnelly and Scot Shields.

Although the Reds are thin on prospects to deal from within their system, they are flush with three catchers -- a position big-league teams are often seeking to upgrade. That could make a veteran like Jason LaRue intriguing to some teams.

Just like fans and the media, players will also be paying attention to the developments.

"Coming down to July 31, it's always, 'We're going to go for it and jump in feet first, or we're out.' It's only one or the other," Arroyo said. "There's no riding the fence. You either feel like we're good enough to win and go out and get somebody we feel is going to help get over the hump, or start unloading a few people and plan for the future. I don't see the latter happening at all in the situation we're in."

4 games back in the division
1.5 games back in wild card and the NL is weak this year.
Something very big is going to happen very soon.

ED44

07-13-2006, 01:54 PM

I would like to see the Reds give the Pirates a call. Marte and Oliver Perez are two guys I wouldn't mind seeing in a Reds uniform.

I'm not sure why the Angels would want to deal Shields either...but, I would see what they would want for him as well.

As for Hawkins, I'm not a big fan, but considering our bullpen, he even sounds A LITTLE intruiging.

ochre

07-13-2006, 01:54 PM

rah rah ri.

I'd rather take a practical look at the health of the organization and develop a realistic plan around the assets and liabilities that currently exist. Sure there's an outside chance the Reds can contend for the balance of this season. At what long term cost?

To me, this team is perfectly poised to really go for the gusto in 2008. The core team is the right age. The 2008 season should be a year that some bad contracts come off the books, or so. There is some promising pitching beginning to creep up the org charts (yeah, I know we've been there before). To move some of that young core for marginal improvements in the really bad area (bullpen, pitching in general) will do neither [contend now, or then]. The ability to contend before 2008 should not be the carrot; It should be a happy coincidence.

If whatever move they make doesn't dramatically detract from this teams 2-3 year projectable peak window, then sure. Go for it this year.

Rob Dicken

07-13-2006, 01:56 PM

I would like to see the Reds give the Pirates a call. Marte and Oliver Perez are two guys I wouldn't mind seeing in a Reds uniform.

I would rather stay away from Pirates pitching. Look what the last two has done for us...:confused:

(Dave Williams, Rick White)

Far from even considered to be 'good'.

savafan

07-13-2006, 01:57 PM

I love how some of us claim to know that a major trade is about to happen, and some of us claim to know that a trade proposal is definately a made up internet rumor. I wish I had all of your perceptive abilities.

ED44

07-13-2006, 01:58 PM

Perez and Marte have FAR better stuff than either of those two ever had.

Razor Shines

07-13-2006, 02:08 PM

I love how some of us claim to know that a major trade is about to happen, and some of us claim to know that a trade proposal is definately a made up internet rumor. I wish I had all of your perceptive abilities.
Me too...I mean I wish you had it, because I know.

Jpup

07-13-2006, 02:17 PM

"People are going to hang on to quality pitching," Krivsky said. "You have to hope you find somebody that's maybe in a rut somewhere and maybe a change of scenery helps."

that says it all to me. more retreads coming to the riverfront.

redsmetz

07-13-2006, 02:21 PM

"People are going to hang on to quality pitching," Krivsky said. "You have to hope you find somebody that's maybe in a rut somewhere and maybe a change of scenery helps."

J pup: that says it all to me. more retreads coming to the riverfront.

I saw this line and had the opposite response. What gem is out there needing a change of scenery, not unlike Brandon Phillips or an excess pitcher like Brandon Arroyo. Why the doom and gloom?

Handofdeath

07-13-2006, 02:26 PM

I saw this line and had the opposite response. What gem is out there needing a change of scenery, not unlike Brandon Phillips or an excess pitcher like Brandon Arroyo. Why the doom and gloom?

Here's some pitchers not exactly tearing it up and maybe needing a change of scenery.

I saw this line and had the opposite response. What gem is out there needing a change of scenery, not unlike Brandon Phillips or an excess pitcher like Brandon Arroyo. Why the doom and gloom?

because that is what I see it as. just exactly what I said. Why not go out and get someone that is actually good? You are not going to find many Brandon Phillips on the waiver wire. It was just a fortunate, for the Reds, mistake by the Indians.

I don't think that this Reds team is good enough to win anything without actually getting some pitching. Latroy Hawkins isn't going to get it done. Someone like Dontrelle Willis could. There are players to be had, if you believe the news rags. The Reds just have to be willing to give up something to get them. I just have this bad feeling that they are going to trade Kearns or Encarnacion for someone like Mark Redman or Tony Armas.

You can't wait until July 31 to make a deal either. The first team to really go out and help themselves are going to make the playoffs in the NL.

Razor Shines

07-13-2006, 02:39 PM

Here's some pitchers not exactly tearing it up and maybe needing a change of scenery.

Tim Hudson
Jason Marquis I don't think the Cards are looking to trade anyone to us.
Josh Beckett - He has 11 wins and I don't think the Red Sox are going to be trading him.
Kris Benson (and you know who!)I think they're divorced.
Kevin Millwood
Freddy Garcia I don't think the W Sox are looking to move him.

Just my opinion.

goreds2

07-13-2006, 03:41 PM

The Reds have just traded KEARNS and LOPEZ to the Nationals! I just heard it on the XM baseball channel.

harangatang

07-13-2006, 05:53 PM

Anyone think that guy on the ESPN board had some inkling of what was going on? He got the Kearns and Lopez part right and no one else even had a clue.

reds44

07-13-2006, 06:44 PM

Well the guy turned out to be semi-correct.

KronoRed

07-13-2006, 06:44 PM

Should we send this thread over to Natszone? ;)

NJReds

07-13-2006, 07:18 PM

Well the guy turned out to be semi-correct.

Now we need to send Clayton and the prospects to Baltimore for Tejada.:evil:

Handofdeath

04-19-2008, 04:51 PM

Since, for some reason, this thread is not listed in The Archives-Classic Threads for your Viewing Pleasure (which I'm not complaining about BTW) and since only 4 threads in the archives area has more views than this one, I thought I would bump this bad boy, especially since I started it. Read this thread and see what happens when an ordinary man happens upon a tiny little trade rumor and posts it and the board explodes. Read the flurry of posts that come soon after for the next 48 hours. And then relive the surprise/shock/anger/suicidal thoughts you had when "The Trade" is finally announced near the end of this thread. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll scream to the Heavens, "Dear God WHY?!?" Enjoy.

LouisvilleCARDS

04-19-2008, 07:47 PM

Holy extremely old bump Batman. I thought the Nats were trying to trade him and read the first post for like 3 minutes thinking "WTF are they going to get for him, and why are they saying Wayne Krivsky?"