I have always been a Schwartz fan, but after all the off field issues, what is clearly an under performing unit as a whole on top of all the mental mistakes....can this all come down to just poor coaching all around?

September 24th, 2012, 6:37 pm

LionsAllDay

National Champion

Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 2:06 amPosts: 890

Re: Coaching

The only coach who can SURELY be blamed is the ST coach. He's done nothing to bring the group together, and it was exposed yesterday and in the preseason. There are lots of problems with this team, some are coaching related, but most are talent-related; all can be solved with a (hopefully soon-coming) roster overhaul. I know I've said it many times, but guys like Avril, Backus, KVB, Corey Williams, and Nate Burleson are all very overpaid and need to be released so we can get some true talent in FA, and because every one of them can be replaced with guys already on the roster other than KVB, and I'm sure we could find a DE who's better than him for what we're paying him or draft one high if needed. Getting rid of them would net us around $30 million. We could create a super team with that money.

September 24th, 2012, 6:59 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Coaching

Shotty wrote:

The only coach who can SURELY be blamed is the ST coach. He's done nothing to bring the group together, and it was exposed yesterday and in the preseason. There are lots of problems with this team, some are coaching related, but most are talent-related; all can be solved with a (hopefully soon-coming) roster overhaul. I know I've said it many times, but guys like Avril, Backus, KVB, Corey Williams, and Nate Burleson are all very overpaid and need to be released so we can get some true talent in FA, and because every one of them can be replaced with guys already on the roster other than KVB, and I'm sure we could find a DE who's better than him for what we're paying him or draft one high if needed. Getting rid of them would net us around $30 million. We could create a super team with that money.

Man do I agree with you Shotty. Except for the "Super team part" lol. But I agree.

September 24th, 2012, 7:40 pm

LionsAllDay

National Champion

Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 2:06 amPosts: 890

Re: Coaching

kdsberman wrote:

Shotty wrote:

The only coach who can SURELY be blamed is the ST coach. He's done nothing to bring the group together, and it was exposed yesterday and in the preseason. There are lots of problems with this team, some are coaching related, but most are talent-related; all can be solved with a (hopefully soon-coming) roster overhaul. I know I've said it many times, but guys like Avril, Backus, KVB, Corey Williams, and Nate Burleson are all very overpaid and need to be released so we can get some true talent in FA, and because every one of them can be replaced with guys already on the roster other than KVB, and I'm sure we could find a DE who's better than him for what we're paying him or draft one high if needed. Getting rid of them would net us around $30 million. We could create a super team with that money.

Man do I agree with you Shotty. Except for the "Super team part" lol. But I agree.

Lol. In other words, we could fill every single hole in the team with players who are good at their positions.

September 24th, 2012, 7:49 pm

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5021Location: WSU

Re: Coaching

Shotty wrote:

The only coach who can SURELY be blamed is the ST coach. He's done nothing to bring the group together, and it was exposed yesterday and in the preseason. There are lots of problems with this team, some are coaching related, but most are talent-related; all can be solved with a (hopefully soon-coming) roster overhaul. I know I've said it many times, but guys like Avril, Backus, KVB, Corey Williams, and Nate Burleson are all very overpaid and need to be released so we can get some true talent in FA, and because every one of them can be replaced with guys already on the roster other than KVB, and I'm sure we could find a DE who's better than him for what we're paying him or draft one high if needed. Getting rid of them would net us around $30 million. We could create a super team with that money.

you do know all the "replacements" for those guys did play in the game. What did Willie Young do? Was Riley Reiff so brilliant in this game or in the preseason? LoJack couldnt even make the active roster and Ronnel Lewis is still a pup on special teams. Sammie Hill and Nick Fairley could maybe replace Corey Williams but the rotation makes them all more effective. Fundamentally Fairley isnt as good as Williams and he s in poor shape. Young made a great play on a wild finish but he s nowhere near as polished as Burleson. Panic Millen like overstated knee jerk rxn on your part. It is a good idea to replace those guys but to suggest it all should have been done this offseason wouldnt help this team get through this season. Some of the guys will get replaced but not until the younger guys show they are better or even remotely reliable in some cases - T young Fairley

September 24th, 2012, 11:35 pm

Blueskies

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3121

Re: Coaching

I believe that all of those guys should be replaced in the offseason. None of them have performed very well, and they will all only get older and perform more poorly in the coming years.

The exceptions in terms of performance may be Burleson and Backus. But Mayhew spent high draft picks on Reiff and Broyles for a reason.

Also, maybe Avrill could be persuaded to take a reasonable contract.

But other than that I agree.

September 25th, 2012, 8:08 am

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5021Location: WSU

Re: Coaching

Blueskies wrote:

I believe that all of those guys should be replaced in the offseason. None of them have performed very well, and they will all only get older and perform more poorly in the coming years.

The exceptions in terms of performance may be Burleson and Backus. But Mayhew spent high draft picks on Reiff and Broyles for a reason.

Also, maybe Avrill could be persuaded to take a reasonable contract.

But other than that I agree.

i would agree if the young guys actually step up. i dont see how any reasonable person could watch titus young and suggest that Burleson should be cut in his favor. Burleson knows what it means to be a professional, Titus Young does not. If there s anything that this team needs its more character, more discipline, more professionalism. same exact conversation when it comes to fairley and corey williams.

if avril doesnt step it up his contract will be more reasonable. but has anyone else ie willie young done anything that suggests there s a better alternative?

it would be nice to have those guys cap space but they are important on the team. cutting them now or in this past offseason likely would have created more problems than it solved. you dont have a bunch of guys lead you to the playoffs and then immediately show them the door. its ludicrous and please remember its week 3 of the season and you guys are slamming the door on them.

September 25th, 2012, 8:32 am

Ferris

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: April 19th, 2005, 2:10 pmPosts: 2478Location: Michigan

Re: Coaching

The two biggest problems the Lions have is that the secondary is a hodge podge and misses Delmas sorely, and our ST. We will have issues with those two areas all season.

No reason to start throwing players that are playing well under the bus. The Dline has been stout against the run and pressuring the QB but THE SINGLE BIGGEST ISSUE with the dline is the words coverage sack - Not so much.

Burleson is off to a great start and is a great player/leader/individual. Millen would take the 30 million and go sign a bunch of overpaid washouts and take the team back 10 years. This front office continues to be patient to a fault and build for the future. The Lions are going to win a lot of games this year, Just not as many as I or everyone else here might like.

The only coach who can SURELY be blamed is the ST coach. He's done nothing to bring the group together, and it was exposed yesterday and in the preseason. There are lots of problems with this team, some are coaching related, but most are talent-related; all can be solved with a (hopefully soon-coming) roster overhaul. I know I've said it many times, but guys like Avril, Backus, KVB, Corey Williams, and Nate Burleson are all very overpaid and need to be released so we can get some true talent in FA, and because every one of them can be replaced with guys already on the roster other than KVB, and I'm sure we could find a DE who's better than him for what we're paying him or draft one high if needed. Getting rid of them would net us around $30 million. We could create a super team with that money.

you do know all the "replacements" for those guys did play in the game. What did Willie Young do? Was Riley Reiff so brilliant in this game or in the preseason? LoJack couldnt even make the active roster and Ronnel Lewis is still a pup on special teams. Sammie Hill and Nick Fairley could maybe replace Corey Williams but the rotation makes them all more effective. Fundamentally Fairley isnt as good as Williams and he s in poor shape. Young made a great play on a wild finish but he s nowhere near as polished as Burleson. Panic Millen like overstated knee jerk rxn on your part. It is a good idea to replace those guys but to suggest it all should have been done this offseason wouldnt help this team get through this season. Some of the guys will get replaced but not until the younger guys show they are better or even remotely reliable in some cases - T young Fairley

Im very sure Riley Reiff will be ready to start by next season, so Backus can be replaced right there by a very solid run blocker and sure pass blocker. Avril is a complete non factor, so we can't go wrong with starting Willie young for a much lesser cost. Corey Williams is getting up there in age and Fairley/SLH would be perfectly fine DT backups. KVB could likely be replaced by a FA just as good, but keeping him wouldn't hurt, he's only getting around 5 million a year. IMO, burleson staying or leaving will depend on Broyles' play this season and/or if Titus young steps up and plays to his potential, which is damn high. All of them finding ways to be released is unlikely, but the money we'd get from releasing 3 would make a big difference.

September 25th, 2012, 10:02 am

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5021Location: WSU

Re: Coaching

Shotty wrote:

The Legend wrote:

Shotty wrote:

The only coach who can SURELY be blamed is the ST coach. He's done nothing to bring the group together, and it was exposed yesterday and in the preseason. There are lots of problems with this team, some are coaching related, but most are talent-related; all can be solved with a (hopefully soon-coming) roster overhaul. I know I've said it many times, but guys like Avril, Backus, KVB, Corey Williams, and Nate Burleson are all very overpaid and need to be released so we can get some true talent in FA, and because every one of them can be replaced with guys already on the roster other than KVB, and I'm sure we could find a DE who's better than him for what we're paying him or draft one high if needed. Getting rid of them would net us around $30 million. We could create a super team with that money.

you do know all the "replacements" for those guys did play in the game. What did Willie Young do? Was Riley Reiff so brilliant in this game or in the preseason? LoJack couldnt even make the active roster and Ronnel Lewis is still a pup on special teams. Sammie Hill and Nick Fairley could maybe replace Corey Williams but the rotation makes them all more effective. Fundamentally Fairley isnt as good as Williams and he s in poor shape. Young made a great play on a wild finish but he s nowhere near as polished as Burleson. Panic Millen like overstated knee jerk rxn on your part. It is a good idea to replace those guys but to suggest it all should have been done this offseason wouldnt help this team get through this season. Some of the guys will get replaced but not until the younger guys show they are better or even remotely reliable in some cases - T young Fairley

Im very sure Riley Reiff will be ready to start by next season, so Backus can be replaced right there by a very solid run blocker and sure pass blocker. Avril is a complete non factor, so we can't go wrong with starting Willie young for a much lesser cost. Corey Williams is getting up there in age and Fairley/SLH would be perfectly fine DT backups. KVB could likely be replaced by a FA just as good, but keeping him wouldn't hurt, he's only getting around 5 million a year. IMO, burleson staying or leaving will depend on Broyles' play this season and/or if Titus young steps up and plays to his potential, which is damn high. All of them finding ways to be released is unlikely, but the money we'd get from releasing 3 would make a big difference.

its hard to tell if you are projecting into the future or referring to this past offseason. All of the veterans will eventually be replaced just like you or I will eventually die but writing off players like Avril/Williams/KVB etc 3 games into the season is nonsense. the offseason happens after the season for a reason. doesnt happen in week 3. so are u saying they should have gotten rid of all of those guys prior to the 2012 season? want them gone during the season? or want them gone after this season? be clear bc Im telling you why those vets are on the team THIS season not saying they have to stay indefinitely.

September 25th, 2012, 10:36 am

Growler

Butkus Award Winner

Joined: April 8th, 2010, 3:24 pmPosts: 589

Re: Coaching

Dare I say it, is it time to start asking whether or not we might be better off with a different coaching staff, at least as far as defensive coordinator, offensive coordinator, and special teams goes? Schwartz might deserve a re-examination, too. What happened in Tennessee was just gut-wrenching and they should won that game.

September 26th, 2012, 12:31 am

LionsAllDay

National Champion

Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 2:06 amPosts: 890

Re: Coaching

The Legend wrote:

Shotty wrote:

The Legend wrote:

Shotty wrote:

The only coach who can SURELY be blamed is the ST coach. He's done nothing to bring the group together, and it was exposed yesterday and in the preseason. There are lots of problems with this team, some are coaching related, but most are talent-related; all can be solved with a (hopefully soon-coming) roster overhaul. I know I've said it many times, but guys like Avril, Backus, KVB, Corey Williams, and Nate Burleson are all very overpaid and need to be released so we can get some true talent in FA, and because every one of them can be replaced with guys already on the roster other than KVB, and I'm sure we could find a DE who's better than him for what we're paying him or draft one high if needed. Getting rid of them would net us around $30 million. We could create a super team with that money.

you do know all the "replacements" for those guys did play in the game. What did Willie Young do? Was Riley Reiff so brilliant in this game or in the preseason? LoJack couldnt even make the active roster and Ronnel Lewis is still a pup on special teams. Sammie Hill and Nick Fairley could maybe replace Corey Williams but the rotation makes them all more effective. Fundamentally Fairley isnt as good as Williams and he s in poor shape. Young made a great play on a wild finish but he s nowhere near as polished as Burleson. Panic Millen like overstated knee jerk rxn on your part. It is a good idea to replace those guys but to suggest it all should have been done this offseason wouldnt help this team get through this season. Some of the guys will get replaced but not until the younger guys show they are better or even remotely reliable in some cases - T young Fairley

Im very sure Riley Reiff will be ready to start by next season, so Backus can be replaced right there by a very solid run blocker and sure pass blocker. Avril is a complete non factor, so we can't go wrong with starting Willie young for a much lesser cost. Corey Williams is getting up there in age and Fairley/SLH would be perfectly fine DT backups. KVB could likely be replaced by a FA just as good, but keeping him wouldn't hurt, he's only getting around 5 million a year. IMO, burleson staying or leaving will depend on Broyles' play this season and/or if Titus young steps up and plays to his potential, which is damn high. All of them finding ways to be released is unlikely, but the money we'd get from releasing 3 would make a big difference.

its hard to tell if you are projecting into the future or referring to this past offseason. All of the veterans will eventually be replaced just like you or I will eventually die but writing off players like Avril/Williams/KVB etc 3 games into the season is nonsense. the offseason happens after the season for a reason. doesnt happen in week 3. so are u saying they should have gotten rid of all of those guys prior to the 2012 season? want them gone during the season? or want them gone after this season? be clear bc Im telling you why those vets are on the team THIS season not saying they have to stay indefinitely.

No. Broyles was fresh out of college very soon removed from a bad injury, RR was struggling a bit at the start of camp, and has only gotten better over time, and WY needed some more time to work on his consistency. KVB's only issue is age, which is why I wouldn't mind him staying at all. Avril is a utter waste of $10.6 million. That's Trent Cole money, which is absolutely outrageous. IMO, all of them were resigned because even if we were to cut all of them, who would we get with all the money? There really weren't any BIG free agent names for secondary players, which is what lots of this money should go towards. IMO, Schwartz will cut them accordingly as the money he'll get from releasing them will correlate with the contract a hot FA is looking for. Brent Grimes will likely be the hottest FA this next offseason, and if Atlanta doesn't resign him quick, don't be surprised if Schwartz goes hard to get him.

September 26th, 2012, 12:40 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Coaching

I'm sorry to be the "voice of reason" here, if I can even claim that title, but weren't we all saying Tennessee was a "TRAP GAME?"

Well it appears that the Lions stepped into the trap, and just like a trapped predator who can't get his foot out we are attacking our ankle out of frustration, despair, and much more!

We are not that far removed from a losing culture, so watching teams like Minniesota turn it around so quickly, when we've struggled pitifully is down right unfair. We have a solid coaching staff, GM, and many good players, but it makes me sick to my stomach to watch the 49er's wrap up, tackle for loss, and hit people backwards, and when it's our turn we arm tackle, miss assignments, and get run over. For as good as this team CAN BE, where's the tackling coaches? Where's the ST coach, and why aren't they doing laps, and push ups, and stair climbing until they get the point that they better do a cutler (get their head in the game).

I despise having to face the Bears and Packers, and Vikings for that matter knowing that we have a decent chance of being the laughing stock again, because our team isn't doing it's job!

Chuck Preifer where are you? We need you to come out of retirement. Our ST's have stunk since he retired.

As far as going for it: I will never fault a coach for trying to win it outright. I was saying go for it at the moment. I would be a hypocrite if I chastise him for it now.

If there are any goats from the game they would be:

ST's just stink. Why are we the only team that just can't get ST's right.

Petigrew needs his butt kicked for letting his pocket get picked.

Raiola completely screwed the pooch on the most important play of the game. Bad time to have a brain fart.

September 26th, 2012, 9:36 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Coaching

BillySims wrote:

Chuck Preifer where are you? We need you to come out of retirement. Our ST's have stunk since he retired.

As far as going for it: I will never fault a coach for trying to win it outright. I was saying go for it at the moment. I would be a hypocrite if I chastise him for it now.If there are any goats from the game they would be:

ST's just stink. Why are we the only team that just can't get ST's right.

Petigrew needs his butt kicked for letting his pocket get picked.

Raiola completely screwed the pooch on the most important play of the game. Bad time to have a brain fart.

Here's the problem I have with the bolded statement....they DID NOT GO FOR IT!! Schwartz was trying to get a freebie and draw the Titans off sides. He brought in a cutesie play at a critical time in the game, and he should have known better. Why? Because he pulled the same cutesie crap in the Jets game a couple seasons ago and that one bit him on the butt too.

You don't screw around with the game on the line. They should have either flat out gone for it, or they should have just kicked the damn ball. They should NOT have gotten cute at that time.

Also, if he was going to pull that play, he should have called time out and discussed it with the players on the sidelines.

Schwartz screwed the pooch on that one.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.