I agree with viceroy 27. Any map that has an SMG is automatic dog shit. I play red spectrum when I want to play broken maps. On the topic of netgames going downhill recently, CTF just isn't fun. People need to stop hosting CTF. There's usually a couple guys that refuse to split up and the other team doesn't have a chance. These cowards need to stop rigging the teams so that other people can have fun.

Any map with SMG is god shit? SMG is one of the best weapons in the game, it can kill in seconds at close range and it dwindles down they're health at long range, you need to learn to play before you say such idiotic things you jackass... I guess I couldn't resist saying that... With shotties, if you miss your 1st shot you miss, no damage is given, If you miss with SMG you can shoot the rest of the clip at them and if you do happen to die atleast you did damage, shotties are either a miss or a hit/kill, SMG is just a miss/hit or hit/kill (unless you suck balls in which I ask you to gain some skill)

Shadowbreaker wrote:EDIT: Sorry about the comment about your maps, I thought you were this Viceroy charachter, considering this argument was aimed directly at Ryoko's RS, and Ryoko had just banned your mordekai account... the rest you can probalby figure out.

Ok, it makes sense now. It's all good, now we're even about the whole impersonating thing :p

Now to the others arguing. Why even bother? You could go on for pages about good and bad thing about maps, guns, scenarios, almost anything. But no one is going to change their mind. It's just going to get ugly. And for what good?

Viceroy 27 wrote:If you break something on purpose, it's still broken! Gosh, think before you do things.

It's not like it will harm anyone. btw nice that you stated Ryoko is not a god, as some people seem to think here sometimes, but you have to realize that you are not a god yourself either. Comments are not bad, but if theyre not constructive, theyre just senseless and offending (although i'm getting the impression ryoko immune for the latter thing). You told us friendly what was all bad about ryoko's maps, but youre not really saying what he should do about it, are you?

Last edited by Drictelt on Mar 22nd '07, 15:55, edited 1 time in total.

Viceroy 27 wrote:Isn't it obvious what he must do? If every map save two is irrevocably flawed, then he should get rid of every map save two.

If this were true about any other art, every band would play very very short concerts becuase only a couple of their songs were "perfect". Museums would be almost empty, because every artist would only have a couple of paintings worth seeing.

You can keep complaining about someone else's art all you want, and while you do that, I'm going to have fun playing Aleph One on RS maps, Corolis maps, my own maps, and whatever other maps I find to be enjoyable. I know that good mapping is based on only one thing; whether or not, when you play it, it is fun.So if you don't have fun on RyokoTK's maps, then don't play them. If you think better maps can be made, then make them. There's no point in attacking anybody; this is a creative process, not a destructive process.

You seem to have the impression that this is as overhyped as Halo. It's obvious you don't like it, but this is just a pointless, unjustified rant without any hard evidence. You've exagerrated things. Like on Morollan's castle, you said "no guns, no ammo"; they're right in front of you! If you don't like it, just don't play it rather than just ranting on like there's no tommorow.

Ok, I was probably out of line when I said all SMG maps are dog shit. But here's MY list of what's wrong with Red Spectrum:

1.Hocus Pocus: Why place fusion on a map if it's going to be completely worthless?2.Fallout: Way too big. Too bad marathon can't support 40 players.3.The Wildfire: Why do people even bother with the sewage texture set? It's so damn ugly.4.Revontulet: The sounds on this map make the whole game unplayable.5.Ecliptica: An all underwater map? You've got to be kidding me.6.Robocop Complex: LOL7.Pillar of Pain: Perfect map for a SPNKR. Too bad there isn't one.8.Master Slave: Strobe lights are annoying.9.YYZ: Scenery items get in the way.10.Jerusalem's Lot: A sewage map with landscape texture? It's been done.11.Mucking About: Great for fist duels. I looked in forge, and there's only 2 weapons on this map.12.Fury of the Storm: A ripoff of carnage soccer.13.Grave Danger: I've played games where no one's died because of that shield charger.14.Perpetual Motion: Another flat map? BOOOORING.15.Happy Hour: I didn't know people still used teleporters.16.Silence: Why is the hill a botomless pit of lava?17.Last Goodbye: Just a big open box for pistol duels.18.Python Dancer: I like this one, because I like mazes.19.Where dragons rule: Dead ends. Dead ends. Dead ends.20.Cave Story: I couldn't stop laughing when I played this map.21.Winterheart's Guild: A vacuum map with nothing but AR. Real nice.22.Molten Core: Too dark. I had to use a tozt just to see where I was going.23.Jjaro Jjaro Revolution: Could use another polygon.24.Pagan Purity: WHAT IS WITH THOSE STAIRS?!?.25.Kingdom of Cydonia: Too big for 1v1. Why even bother...26.Horizontal Sync: Well, OK.27.Morrolan's Castle: Placed a SPNKR in lava... I died 5 times trying to get that weapon.28.Infinite Rhapsody: I know this was a Fortress Lh'owon remake, but it's not done well at all.29.Dreadnaught: Too complex. The switch puzzle to get out of the spawn rooms is just ridiculous.30.X-24: 24. The exact number of seconds it took me before I left the game in disgust.

There is one that I played yesterday on LAN as I got a later version, I can't recall of the map name but Im trying to find it now. Its called happy hour, you can fly through the window by running into the bars where they meet in the middle.

i find it fascinating that about half of you don't actually debate the things he said. you simply debate his point. another interesting thing: how many people read his entire post before adding a post of their own in any sort of reference to his? in fact, how many people voted for someone without reading his/her entire platform and policies, etc.? Many of you say, "i'd like to see you do better" or something along those lines. Presumably your reasoning is that only only people who create fine art can understand it?

Billy was a chemist's son.But Billy is no more.What Billy thought was H20,Was H2S04.

Kinetic Turtle wrote:Functional art does not work the same way as fine art, in this respect, amonng others. For more info, see the discussion in the Juggernaut art challenge thread.

I don't see a difference between the two in this regard. I would be justified criticizing shoddy workmanship on cornices without being able to create them myself.

The fact that this guy doesn't make better maps than RS (which you're assuming) or that he offers no constructive suggestions are not valid reasons to dismiss his criticism. On the other hand, it's completely valid to ignore him because of his trollish personal attacks and because most of his criticism begs the question or is self-contradictory.

Functional art does not work the same way as fine art, in this respect, amonng others. For more info, see the discussion in the Juggernaut art challenge thread.

I'm going to have to disagree with this one. Let's take a field like architecture, which is a thoroughly functional art form. It doesn't take an architect for the structure of a building to have or not have appeal, does it? In fact, in the field, one's work is pretty much specifically designed to appeal to non-architects. So whose opinion matters the most? Those that have no training in the subject, even though they can't do a better job.

The same holds true in levels made for video games. It doesn't take a skilled mapper to realize when a map sucks, because no matter how many years of mapping you have under your belt, if the average player isn't having a good time, then the map sucks, period.

Not that I'm defending Viceroy 27 here, whose "review" of RS is, as Treellama said, often self-contradictory and frequently begs the question.

Last edited by RyokoTK on Mar 25th '07, 15:51, edited 1 time in total.

I think I have to agree with viceroy here. I tried out the first map, and it took me less than a minute to get full inv with every thing besides pistols, and circle it three times. to much stuff in too small a place. don't get me wrong, I love the grey incident. hey, and speaking of corolis, WHERE IS IT, I CANNOT FIND THE *********** DOWNLOAD ANYWHERE!! i like the soccer/rocket map. so sue me. : p

Phortiphy wrote:I tried out the first map, and it took me less than a minute to get full inv with every thing besides pistols, and circle it three times. to much stuff in too small a place.

IMO, how quickly you can get around i's a sign of a map with good flow. Besides looking at this stuff in solo is pretty meaningless. In a net game, you would have been in combat in significantly less time than it took you to circle the map three times.

Maybe there are mapping standards. If you think a map is crap well consider that if TK, irons, KT, etc. are all pro mappers and if thats the best they can do then thats the best a map can be? Just because you think the pack is a piece of shit well that doesn't make it so. Also you'd have to play the map in multiplayer where they were ment to be played. You can't just walk around in single player and say it sucks. I know this is opinion but really thats not quite fact. We've been playing RS for a long time and why? Because its fun, and thats all that matters. Saying good map packs like these are bad is like saying International house of pain is good =0 Personally I'd like to see you do any better and RS and underworld are probably the best map packs ever made. Corolis and other map packs are still better than most but they suck compared to RS and under. You also said that some maps were just some sort of shape with stuff in it. You moron did you actualy notice the other things in the map then the main battlefield? Pagan Purity is not a box with pillars in it theres more to it. Even if it is your opinion you didn't really have good proof or backup as i see it.

Last edited by Darkwrath on Jun 6th '07, 02:02, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:UnderWORLD, not Underground. -TK

The world is filled with bastard covered bastards with bastard fillings.