If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: Reds to offer Baker a contract

Originally Posted by 757690

I think Dusty might only want one year deals from now on. With his health issues, he would like the flexibility to walk away from managing if they become an issue again. I just don't see Dusty quitting with years left on his contract.

This is why I don't think he should come back.He is up there in age and as you said he is starting to have health problems.

Re: Reds to offer Baker a contract

Originally Posted by nemesis

I'm probably wrong. But the next manager of the Reds needs to be more position player rookie friendly.

What's Dusty done wrong on this front? Cozart started the whole year as a rookie at a key position. Rolen put up an .849 OPS post all star break and still plays circles around Frazier defensively, so it's not hard to understand that decision. He still got the Toddfather 400+ at bats. I'd rather be more "best player friendly" and hope that our rookies fit that title.

Re: Reds to offer Baker a contract

Originally Posted by nemesis

Well one thing is for certain. Walt already has his replacement in line and the guy probably has already agreed to manage the team if/when Dusty declines. I'm sure they'll do a dog and pony search for show. But there is zero chance that this move was made by Walt without a fallback option in place. Not his style.

Speculation: Riggleman

If Dusty leaves, I will be almost shocked if David Bell isn't his replacement. I dont' know anything first hand, but just the tone I've heard over the years and how things have been handled make me believe that is the course the Reds are on.

Yes, Riggleman has managed some prospects for the Reds, but David Bell has as well. Frazier, Heisey, Cozart, Ondrusek, Villarreal, Mesoraco, Did, Rodriguez, Soto, Phipps, Negron and has interacted with others during rehab stints and of course Spring Training.

Re: Reds to offer Baker a contract

Originally Posted by Superdude

What's Dusty done wrong on this front? Cozart started the whole year as a rookie at a key position. Rolen put up an .849 OPS post all star break and still plays circles around Frazier defensively, so it's not hard to understand that decision. He still got the Toddfather 400+ at bats. I'd rather be more "best player friendly" and hope that our rookies fit that title.

Cozart is 27 years old. Yes he is technically a rookie, but he had to wait an awfully long time to break into the major leagues even though he was clearly better than the likes of Paul Janish and washed up veterans Orlando Cabrera and Edgar Renteria. Todd Frazier is 26. These guys aren't raw youngsters.

I don't necessarily agree with the notion that Dusty favors vets and doesn't like young players, but there is some degree of evidence to that effect. Some really bad veteran under-performers (like Cairo and Valdez for example) have gotten a lot of playing time in recent seasons that could have been more wisely utilized by giving it to some younger options. Dusty will play the elite prospects like Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey, but the less heralded prospects basically have to wait until everyone else completely fails before getting a shot.

Re: Reds to offer Baker a contract

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

Cozart is 27 years old. Yes he is technically a rookie, but he had to wait an awfully long time to break into the major leagues even though he was clearly better than the likes of Paul Janish and washed up veterans Orlando Cabrera and Edgar Renteria. Todd Frazier is 26. These guys aren't raw youngsters.

You do realize Cozart hit .246/.288/.399 this year, right? How much better than Renteria's .251/.306/.348 in 2011 or Orland Cabrera's .263/.303/.354 in 2010 is that?

In 2010, Cozart hit .255/.310/.416 in his first go at AAA while Edgar Renteria was hitting .276/.332/.374 for the Giants. During 2011, Cozart's performance was driven largely by a .348 BABIP. In 2012, his peripherals were very similar, but his BABIP regressed closer to expected and his overall performance dropped accordingly.

I wanted Cozart at the start of 2011 too. But let's not act like Dusty was keeping Mike Trout in the minors for Vernon Wells.

Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

Re: Reds to offer Baker a contract

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

Cozart is 27 years old. Yes he is technically a rookie, but he had to wait an awfully long time to break into the major leagues even though he was clearly better than the likes of Paul Janish and washed up veterans Orlando Cabrera and Edgar Renteria. Todd Frazier is 26. These guys aren't raw youngsters.

I don't necessarily agree with the notion that Dusty favors vets and doesn't like young players, but there is some degree of evidence to that effect. Some really bad veteran under-performers (like Cairo and Valdez for example) have gotten a lot of playing time in recent seasons that could have been more wisely utilized by giving it to some younger options. Dusty will play the elite prospects like Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey, but the less heralded prospects basically have to wait until everyone else completely fails before getting a shot.

The first paragraph just makes no sense to me. How does signing free agents and player development fall into Dusty's lap at all? I hated the two headed monster of Janish and Renteria as much as the next guy, but it's kind of hard for Baker to play a guy who's not on the roster. And Cairo and Valdez is really grasping straws. Who are you calling up that fits those needs?

Re: Reds to offer Baker a contract

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

You do realize Cozart hit .246/.288/.399 this year, right? How much better than Renteria's .251/.306/.348 in 2011 or Orland Cabrera's .263/.303/.354 in 2010 is that?

In 2010, Cozart hit .255/.310/.416 in his first go at AAA while Edgar Renteria was hitting .276/.332/.374 for the Giants. During 2011, Cozart's performance was driven largely by a .348 BABIP. In 2012, his peripherals were very similar, but his BABIP regressed closer to expected and his overall performance dropped accordingly.

I wanted Cozart at the start of 2011 too. But let's not act like Dusty was keeping Mike Trout in the minors for Vernon Wells.

Yeah that is what I was saying. I never said Zack Cozart was a superstar. Did you read the post? Maybe you should try to understand the point I was making before making a hyper-agressive attack post in reply?

I was replying to someone else who was saying that since Cozart was playing as a rookie it means Dusty doesn't favor vets. Citing a 27 year old rookie doesn't boost that argument. Cozart was not a good example to show that Dusty likes young players -- because Cozart isn't young. I even said I didn't agree with the notion that Dusty won't play rookies and even listed some rookies that he did in fact play when they were truly young and were better examples than Cozart.

And yes, Zack Cozart is a much better option at the plate because of his power. His hitting is likely to improve now that he has a season of major league experience under his belt. In the field Cozart is light years better than those two over the hill retreads. Cozart is a big upgrade now and would have been last year and the year before too. He was certainly much superior to the utility players like Wilson Valdez, Paul Janish and others the last two years that have gotten so much playing time.

Re: Reds to offer Baker a contract

Originally Posted by Superdude

The first paragraph just makes no sense to me. How does signing free agents and player development fall into Dusty's lap at all? I hated the two headed monster of Janish and Renteria as much as the next guy, but it's kind of hard for Baker to play a guy who's not on the roster. And Cairo and Valdez is really grasping straws. Who are you calling up that fits those needs?

You don't think Dusty Baker has any input over which free agents are signed to play for his team? Of course Dusty has a lot to do with deciding which players to bring in. Jocketty isn't out there doing whatever he pleases without working together with Dusty to get players he wants. Dusty has a LOT more to do with roster construction that you think he does. There is nobody on this team that Dusty Baker didn't want. I am sure there are players that Dusty wanted but Jocketty couldn't acquire as well, but the notion that Dusty is helplessly forced to use players he didn't want on the team is not accurate.

Re: Reds to offer Baker a contract

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

You don't think Dusty Baker has any input over which free agents are signed to play for his team? Of course Dusty has a lot to do with deciding which players to bring in. Jocketty isn't out there doing whatever he pleases without working together with Dusty to get players he wants. Dusty has a LOT more to do with roster construction that you think he does. There is nobody on this team that Dusty Baker didn't want. I am sure there are players that Dusty wanted but Jocketty couldn't acquire as well, but the notion that Dusty is helplessly forced to use players he didn't want on the team is not accurate.

Alright. You've clearly been managing major league baseball teams more than I have. This entire response is the equivalent of saying, "You're wrong because I just know."

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most
importantly, enjoy yourselves!

RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball