First, you download it on one computer you can then take the APP and install it on multiple computers via USB Flash drive, AFP, FTP, etc so download 1 time and that's it.

Second, if you are on Leopard chances are you aren't on Intel so therefore Lion wouldn't work for you anyways since it's Intel only. If you are on Intel and aren't on SL that's a mistake in itself

Third, as far as booting up there is a recovery volume accessible when you hold down option on startup so no need for additional stuff.

Before I get myself into anymore trouble talking about this - relax people Apple has thought of everything here so just wait until more info is released to the public before asking a million questions.

Intel computers were here long before Snow Leopard - my brother has an Intel Core Duo MacBook Pro, and he's still running Tiger.

Basically, then, its like Snow Leopard users getting a super cheap upgrade deal, and everyone else getting a super cheap full price (less than half the usual $129, which was always much cheaper than Windowswere spoiled!)

You are using proprietary hard systems, for which you paid and now to pay for OS too. To me it look like double dipping.

Maybe it's just me, but I was a bit underwhelmed. It doesn't really seem like a full point upgrade. It's like an amalgamation of some goodies here and there that will mean a lot to some people and very little to others. Personally, I am not at all a fan of taking the iOS experience and putting on the desktop. It works great for an iOS device, not so much for a Mac.

The features in this upgrade are really not that compelling. I think I'll be skipping it. I will say that it definitely is priced right.

Just so it's clear up front: I think Lion has a lot of interesting features that many user will like. What I write below is simply my opinion on Lion's negatives WRT how I use my Mac for work and fun.

I have been a part of Apple's Appleseed beta program since it began in March. I've been totally immersed in Lion as I've used it for eight-ten hours a day as my primary OS. It has resided on an OWC SSD inside my early 2009 Mac Mini.

1. Preview. I absolutely detest the "versioning" feature in the Lion version of Preview, even though a couple of fellow commenters provided some interesting thoughts about it. My way of doing things since the 1970s is to save early and often, using the cmd-s key combo on Macs since day 1. While some applications will do an auto-save for you, these saves are the entire document. You can all go read on the Apple site how the new versioning works in Preview so I won't go into it here. My problem is that I cannot save a new copy to save my soul. Recently I needed to send a single page from a 20-page PDF document. I thought I had deleted all but the one page in Preview yet the person to whom I sent it asked why I sent everything. So Preview saved the whole document, not just the single page that I wanted. This is the tip of my war against Preview.

2. Mail The new mail really likes to group threads together, even combining previously-read eamils that I thought I had trashed. When I trash an email, I expect it to be gone. Yes, I know that you can go "delete the email trash" somehow, but I really don't want old emails being resurrected just to join a thread. And yes, Mail has an option to have it behave like the old Mail.

3. No Rosetta I know, we have to move forward so OS X doesn't get bloated with support for legacy apps but there are two programs that I use several days a week that are Rosetta-based, so I have needed to boot into Snow Leo just to perform some work with them. Please, no flames about this point!

4. Sluggish It may be my older computer but when I run Lion for a day or two without restarting, overall performance gets jumpy. I'll be typing along when all of a sudden the cursor simply stops even though I'm still typing. After a couple of seconds, the text that I've typed will suddenly appear and off we go again. Other things that happen are slow window drags, slow scrolling (I use a scroll wheel) and slow window refreshes. I've opened Activity Monitor and that shows nothing hogging the memory or processor. According to AM things are working fine. I've booted on my Lion backup drive and I get the same results. Restarting clears things up.

5. Loss of color I really like having colorful icons in my sidebar and elsewhere so this shift by Apple toward shades of gray is not to my liking. It's hard to distinguish among several objects if there aren't the traditional color cues.

6. Address Book I use it a lot and while the look of the new version is nice, it tries to be too smart for me. I like the way the traditional AB looks with three columns and I dislike having to go back and forth from the groups area to individual cards. It's just not comfortable for me.

7. Spotlight Most of the time when I use Spotlight to search for something, I like to know where that file is located. In the Snow Leo Spotlight, a tooltip appears when you mouse over an item that shows the path. This is much easier for me than having to do a cmd-click to open the file's enclosing folder. I don't want to go to the folder, I just want to know where it is.

===

While I've been using Lion I noticed a number of apps that don't work under Lion, though developers assure me that there will be Lion versions soon after it's announced. Having gone through the same process with other OS X releases, I have a lot of confidence in the development community

In closing I do want to mention that there are some very attractive new features but they aren't compelling enough for me to buy and install the FCS copy. There are other new features that will make a lot of people pretty excited but are total yawners for me (such as full-screen apps). I am certain that Lion will be very appealing to new users and old, just not to this ancient one.

I still use MacUpdate and probably will for a long time to come. I'm just not a huge fan of the App Store. It just feels too garish to me. I also can't use it at the office, and considering that I spend a 1/3 of my life there that's a significant problem.

You spend a third of your working hours at either MacUpdate or the MAS? I wish I could get away with that!

3. No Rosetta I know, we have to move forward so OS X doesn't get bloated with support for legacy apps but there are two programs that I use several days a week that are Rosetta-based, so I have needed to boot into Snow Leo just to perform some work with them. Please, no flames about this point!

Not a flame: These two legacy applications have to have x86 alternatives by this point. They must.

Quote:

5. Loss of color I really like having colorful icons in my sidebar and elsewhere so this shift by Apple toward shades of gray is not to my liking. It's hard to distinguish among several objects if there aren't the traditional color cues.

That isn't happening. Apart from Launchpad, zero applications are receiving that iSync-style makeover. And you don't even have to look at Launchpad ever.

I have a macbook that I bought in 2008, it is in bad need of a complete wipe and reload...are you telling me that I will have to install snow leopard, then the latest updates and app store, then download and install a new OS? Will the app store provide at least some sort of solution for making a bootable install flash drive or DVD so that I can wipe and reload or load up a blank hard disk with the newest OSX version?

For most people this will be great, but I have tons of crap on my mac and i just wanna start fresh...

You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.

Not a flame: These two legacy applications have to have x86 alternatives by this point. They must.

I can think of one that I use daily, Quicken 2007. This is the last usable version of Quicken for the Mac. The newest version (which is fully x86 compatible), is a POS. Yes, there are alternatives, but none that matches all of the features. We may get there yet with iBank, but right now I have to stick with this old app and it needs Rosetta.

Hint 2: ... well I wonder if Apple is serious about forcing people to buy new equipment once Lion is on market and we cannot buy Snow Leopard anymore (for Mac App Store intermediate access ill-born Apple idea).

I do not mind going Lion, but it has to bereasonable approach and not rude cut off from access.

3. No Rosetta I know, we have to move forward so OS X doesn't get bloated with support for legacy apps but there are two programs that I use several days a week that are Rosetta-based, so I have needed to boot into Snow Leo just to perform some work with them. Please, no flames about this point!

Core2Duo chips were the first 64 bit chips in Apple computers. The previous generation CoreDuo machines (1st gen MacBook Pro's for example) are only 32 bit. Apple stating the earliest chips that will run Lion are Core2Duo by default means it is 64 bit only.

Core2Duo chips were the first 64 bit chips in Apple computers. The previous generation CoreDuo machines (1st gen MacBook Pro's for example) are only 32 bit. Apple stating the earliest chips that will run Lion are Core2Duo by default means it is 64 bit only.

Thanks for clearing that up.

--------------------------"Why join the navy if you can be a pirate?"-Steve Jobs

As for people with slow internet being screwed... yes, if it’s super slow, they may want to either hold off on Lion or go to a library with WiFi. But once they DO download it (a couple overnights?) we have no reason to think they are screwed for problem-solving in future. The details you’re assuming are just not known yet.

The double upgrade has to be annoying though, sitting through two OS installs? Ouch. I hope there's forthcoming information that makes it easier for those people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil

The guy screaming for a $5 OS was having "entitlement" issues. I'm glad Lion's only $30 for a family license and happy to have been wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by myapplelove

Myself, like a lot of others, wanted resolution independence very much, so the rest of the os news don't sound that interesting.

Going from just the presentation, I found maybe a dozen productivity and usability enhancements, each of them good enough to be worth the $30 purchase. I had been wishing for some of those improvements in the desktop paradigm for a decade. It's unfortunate that Res Ind isn't there, but please, get real.

The double upgrade has to be annoying though, sitting through two OS installs? Ouch. I hope there's forthcoming information that makes it easier for those people.

I don't think it's a concern for Apple or they would have offered an optical disc version at a later date (maybe sent off for pressing after the MAS version is added) and/or offered it for an increased price (there is increased cost for it.

If we look at the dates, since Lion is only for 64-bit Intel-based Macs that means we don't start that HW compatibility until August 2006, with the Mac Pro, but that is by no means when all Macs were capable were capable of running Lion. At the other end we have Snow Leopard being launched, June 8th, 2009, almost exactly 2 years ago which means every Mac sold since then came with Snow Leopard.

If we then consider the growth rate of Macs and the percentage of Leopard users is likely not vey big. Then if consider the reasons why someone who could have spent $29 on Snow Leopard has chosen to not update in the past two years we come out with an even smaller percentage.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

And so in order to use iCloud on my CD MacBook, I have to run Windows Vista or Windows 7. Nice. Just another nail in the coffin of my twenty-year relationship with Apple.

"Remember that time in 1991 when I bought you that thing you always wanted? Well that's why I'm so hurt that you're treating me this way today. How could you do this to me?I know I've let myself go for the past 6 years but that doesn't mean you should give up on me. Maybe if you treated better I'd take better care of you in return."

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Apple will likley have DVDs available at retail for Lion installs for Leopard owners, etc. Why wouldn't they?

Missed the ONLY part. Watched the keynote.

Quote:

Notice Lion is only 4GB? Why? To fit on a single layer DVD! However, I guarantee that the install is still tied to your iTunes PW and cannot be used on more than 5 machines (not a guarantee).

Wrong again. It's likely 4GB because it is a differential update (not all of the OS is ever new).

Quote:

Lion at retail will likely be $29, also. Apple is pushing to beat Windows at its own game - OS updates! It reduces confusion about which version to get.

Nope.

Quote:

I pray Apple's servers are ready for 10 million downloads on day one for Lion. The servers would completely go down without that massive data center.

If I could blow myself, I'd never leave the house.

PC-free iPhone and iPad ownership is the way of the future. No backup if Apple has it on the cloud.

I hate the word cloud.

I need someone to figure out if Lion will actually run on a non-64-bit machine (such as the first Core Duo Macs). Or I need to sell my MacBook Pro CD.

Could it be that iTunes is how Apple is going to add copy-protection to its OS DVDs? Imagine if installing the OS required you to create an iTunes account? Perhaps the retail disk version does not require it (more likely).

Not a flame: These two legacy applications have to have x86 alternatives by this point. They must.

Hey Skil: As mentioned below, Quicken 2007 is one. The other is a special app that came with my Fuji Finepix, which I bought new just a few months ago. As an avid amateur photographer, this is necessary for my "workflow." Since Fuji isn't in the business of developing software applications, my gut feeling is that Ballmer will resign before Fuji upgrades this app. [damn! I just had to get Ballmer's name on this thread. Damn!}

My optical drive died 6 months ago and my internal drive with SL on it died 3 months later. I've been booting from a 10.5 Leopard external backup drive ever since. I can't get SL on the backup because I no longer have a working optical drive. I can get Applecare to fix everything, but haven't been able to be without a computer long enough to fix it. I guess now I'll have to make the time.

I was really saddened today when, for the first time, I couldn't watch the WWDC Keynote because Apple is now requiring 10.6 SL to view the keynote stream!

My optical drive died 6 months ago and my internal drive with SL on it died 3 months later. I've been booting from a 10.5 Leopard external backup drive ever since. I can't get SL on the backup because I no longer have a working optical drive. I can get Applecare to fix everything, but haven't been able to be without a computer long enough to fix it. I guess now I'll have to make the time.

I was really saddened today when, for the first time, I couldn't watch the WWDC Keynote because Apple is now requiring 10.6 SL to view the keynote stream!

You don't need to have an DVD to install SL. It's also possible that you can restore your external SL partition to the internal one using Disk Utility. I've gone disc-less for years now even going so far as to replace my ODD with an HDD.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

It is unfortunate your six year old computer won't do all the latest and greatest. These things happen sometimes.

I'm not saying I expect my CD MacBook (five years and one month -- May 2006 was the first non-pro MacBook) to run every new thing that comes out. I just find it ironic that Apple supports the iCloud on my machine if I'm running Windows but not if I'm running OS X Snow Leopard. If they can bring the Mac App Store to Snow Leopard, why not iCloud?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecphorizer

"Fahrwahr?" Honestly Drive?

Why not Feuerwehr?

I was going for a particular dialect of pronouncing FireWire. I had a friend in college who was predestined to become an electrical engineer -- his childhood "security blanket" was a bundle of wires that he called his "wahrs" (or "warrs"? I'm trying to rhyme with bar). Maybe FarrWarr would have worked better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by solipsism

"Remember that time in 1991 when I bought you that thing you always wanted? Well that's why I'm so hurt that you're treating me this way today. How could you do this to me?I know I've let myself go for the past 6 years but that doesn't mean you should give up on me. Maybe if you treated better I'd take better care of you in return."

At first I thought this was a movie / song / book reference, but since I mentioned 20 years, I now get it.

My reasons for leaving vary from the technological (dropping of features from the iPod nano 6G, a non-standard hard disk connector in the newest iMacs, the Lion / iCloud requirements) to the political (removal of certain apps from the iOS App Store, financial contributions) to the practical (I have to teach in Windows 7 and Office 2010, and the overhead of switching between operating systems makes me less efficient). I guess the middle is the strongest of the three: why should I contribute financially to a company that uses its clout to take a public stand against what I believe? It's a decision we all -- left, right, or center -- have to make about the companies we patronize. I know I'm not going to affect Apple's bottom line more than a infinitesimal fraction of a percent, but I believe that every penny counts.

It's a sad day when I find myself aligning myself with Microsoft rather than Apple (especially after subscribing to MacUser, MacWorld, and MacAddict / MacLife in the past) or Google ("don't be evil" -- yeah, right), but that's where I stand. I'm not saying Apple's products don't have some redeeming aspects to them -- all things considered, I prefer OS X, and I still find myself coming here to read about what Apple's doing -- but I'm trying to let principle rule over preference, even when it's difficult (I don't hit the mark every time, but I try). Adjusting to the concept of buying my next computer (still using the MacBook until it won't run) from one of the myriad of Windows PC vendors is overwhelming, but I'm more comfortable in Windows 7 than I was in earlier versions.

(This last bit is way OT, so please don't let this hijack the thread. I just wanted to say my piece, and the requirements for Lion and iCloud just opened an opportunity for a snarky comment that I felt deserved a more thorough explanation.)

You don't need to have an DVD to install SL. It's also possible that you can restore your external SL partition to the internal one using Disk Utility. I've gone disc-less for years now even going so far as to replace my ODD with an HDD.

That's interesting. I never knew that. My internal HD is hardware screwed though. The system only thinks it's a blank CD and doesn't even show up in Disk Utility. It's time to go to the Apple Store or an Applecare service provider. Neither of which is less than 95 miles from me.

Someone told me you can do a completely clean install. When you run the installer you can choose what disk to install to, and an empty disk is ok.

Yes, you can install it to any volume with the GUID partition table and enough space.

What I don't yet know is if you can install it will install from a pre-Snow Leopard OS by running the installer. Apple info may just be a blanket statement because you need the Mac App Store in Snow Leopard or later to download the installer.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

That's interesting. I never knew that. My internal HD is hardware screwed though. The system only thinks it's a blank CD and doesn't even show up in Disk Utility. It's time to go to the Apple Store or an Applecare service provider. Neither of which is less than 95 miles from me.

There are external pioneer superdrives to be had at < $50. check google.