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Ok, it's officially time to panic

When the Pacers first starting slumping before the All-Star break, I attributed it mostly to fatigue. Then, when they continued to do so after the break, it was because we were adapting to the new acquisitions Bynum, Turner, and Allen. Then, I speculated that maybe the team was bored with the regular season, and expected the Miami game to wake us up. And though we won that game, the Pacers and Heat have gone in polar opposite directions since.

I'm officially worried.

All season the media has been talking about the Pacers' historically elite defense. However, the Pacers are now playing historically bad offense. Offense so bad that, even though the defense is largely still there, we're losing to teams like 29-45 Cleveland by 14 points.

Today's loss has likely cost us the #1 seed and, deep down, I think we all know that we have very little chance of beating Miami without home court advantage. Assuming, of course, that we can even get that far.

Larry did everything he could to put together a title contender this year, and everyone else is squandering this very rare opportunity. With the salary cap concerns, we will likely never have a more talented team with this core than we have right now.

Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

The team flaming out so spectacularly reflects on Frank. Even if it's not really his fault and the players are letting him down... It's still ultimately his fault (because it's his job to figure it out and fix it).

So either this team has a miracle in them and can flip the switch when the playoffs arrive... or else we've seen a season go from serious championship contender to wondering if we can even get out of the first round. Let alone make it to the ECF's...

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

Larry did everything he could to put together a title contender this year, and everyone else is squandering this very rare opportunity. With the salary cap concerns, we will likely never have a more talented team with this core than we have right now.

This is absolutely heartbreaking to watch.

We were 21-8 with Granger in the line up. I think somebody in the game thread today said it best. If it aint broke, you don't fix it.

One might say Larry Bird did too much. The acquisition of Turner was made with out consulting the head coach. Without any thought on how that type of player could realistically fit with in our offense.

Some of you would say that we showed signs of trouble before that trade and I would agree with you. For about a month before the trade deadline the Pacers were winning ugly, but the most of the losses were to streaking WC teams. I was not worried back then. Granger simply didn't have his legs back yet. Pacers still had one of the best records. They just needed to tweak some things.

The fact that nobody seen the Pacers making any moves at the deadline should tell you how out of left field this trade was. Larry got a GM Boner, and ****ed this team over. Some say Vogel is to blame, certainly he has his share as he has not been able to figure out a proper rotation. But this is on Larry.

Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

Yeah, I can. It's his fault. He has no idea how to manage a team with personnel or minutes. He needs to be fired. Only when the Pacers lose in the playoff's. But nothing will change until Vogel changes his bench. Mahinmi can't score, and Lance and ET cancel each other out. Cannot be on the floor at the same time. Vogel is a lunkhead. He's about as cerebral as a fruitfly.

Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

I know Frank Vogel is loved around here, but two things hurt this team. First Brian Shaw leaving hurt..... then followed by Danny being traded killed the little spirit we had left. Vogel isn't a good offensive minded coach. Shaw was replaced by McMillian who same as Vogel is a defensive mind. So now we focus on defense and no one to put good offense into the young guys and also I think we lack a locker room presence that I think Shaw and Granger brought to the team.

I'm not perfect and neither are you.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

I know Frank Vogel is loved around here, but two things hurt this team. First Brian Shaw leaving hurt..... then followed by Danny being traded killed the little spirit we had left. Vogel isn't a good offensive minded coach. Shaw was replaced by McMillian who same as Vogel is a defensive mind. So now we focus on defense and no one to put good offense into the young guys and also I think we lack a locker room presence that I think Shaw and Granger brought to the team.

I'm sorry, how does Shaw factor into this equation? This team was playing fantastic at the beginning of the season.

Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

The fact that nobody seen the Pacers making any moves at the deadline should tell you how out of left field this trade was. Larry got a GM Boner, and ****ed this team over. Some say Vogel is to blame, certainly he has his share as he has not been able to figure out a proper rotation. But this is on Larry.

"Trading Danny was the toughest thing I ever had to do," Bird said. "He's the last guy I thought I'd trade. About 20 minutes before we made the deal, I told Kevin Pritchard (the assistant GM) that I gotta wait. I didn't know if I could do it.

"But I remembered what Red taught me. The franchise is always first. He said he had great players leave and people would say the franchise was going to fold and all of that. Well, that didn't happen. The franchise is the most important thing and so in this case I had to do what's best for the franchise."

Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

I'm sorry, how does Shaw factor into this equation? This team was playing fantastic at the beginning of the season.

This is false. Losing a coach often seems to have its effect later the following season. Seemed the same with Dungy when Caldwell had taken over. In this instance, it wasn't the Head Coach but a vital cog to this Pacers team success. Shaw I believe had a way of getting through to guys like PG and Lance.

Vogel and Shaw worked exceptionally well together. I feel like McMillen has no impact whatsoever with this team.

Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

If Lance stays, Vogel is gone. I don't want to see a repeat of this same offensive dog**** again next year. Hopefully the give Lance a max contract this offseason fans have had a change of heart. If this team wins a BANNER as currently constructed I would be pleasantly surprised.

Otherwise, keep Vogel and sign and trade Lance for a point guard. Move Hill to SG next year. As far as this season goes, insert Turner in the starting lineup, let lance dictate the second unit.

We get bent over by SA tomorrow and changes have to be made. Our offense at this point in time cannot get any worse than it is already.

I love lance but his immaturity is killing our starting unit. Let him dominate the bench. its not like scolas worth a **** right now.

Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

We were also 20-5 before Granger came back. Additionally, we went to Game 7 of the ECF's last year without Granger.

Waaaaaaaaaaay too much emphasis is being put on Granger. It's not as if Granger had been a vital part of the team recently. This team learned how to thrive without Granger a long time ago. It continued to thrive when he came back because the starting lineup continued to play great. But in recent weeks, the starters began to play like crap. That has nothing to do with Granger. Sure, I'll buy that guys were sad to see him go, but PG isn't shooting like garbage from the field and taking bad shots because his head is so clouded by losing Granger. A starting unit that used to be awesome is no longer playing great. The Granger thing is just clouding the real issues.

Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

Yeah, I can. It's his fault. He has no idea how to manage a team with personnel or minutes. He needs to be fired. Only when the Pacers lose in the playoff's. But nothing will change until Vogel changes his bench. Mahinmi can't score, and Lance and ET cancel each other out. Cannot be on the floor at the same time. Vogel is a lunkhead. He's about as cerebral as a fruitfly.

So the guy has no clue, but is winning 65% (or thereabouts) of his games as an NBA coach? Hmm ok dude, whatever suites you.

Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

We were also 20-5 before Granger came back. Additionally, we went to Game 7 of the ECF's last year without Granger.

Waaaaaaaaaaay too much emphasis is being put on Granger. It's not as if Granger had been a vital part of the team recently. This team learned how to thrive without Granger a long time ago. It continued to thrive when he came back because the starting lineup continued to play great. But in recent weeks, the starters began to play like crap. That has nothing to do with Granger. Sure, I'll buy that guys were sad to see him ago, but PG isn't shooting like garbage from the field and taking bad shots because his head is so clouded by losing Granger. A starting unit that used to be awesome is no longer playing great. The Granger thing is just clouding the real issues.

if someone getting traded affects a team's shot at championship (which comes way too rarely) this much, we are dealing with children on this team. can't find another way to put it. they are mentally at the same level as children.

Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

This team's problems go far beyond trading Granger. The wheels were coming off WITH HIM, and Bird made a reactionary move to try to give this team a boost. This starting 5 used to play so well together, but the chemistry and flow just isn't like it used to be. I don't think there's one thing you can point to and say, "Yeah, that's it," but it appears to be more of a collection of issues.

Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

I don't see anyway we beat the Spurs tomorrow. There the epitome of how a team should play, this isn't LeBron and spare parts. The way our starting 5 resembled before they started playing iso ball and stopped trusting one another to make the shot.

Re: Ok, it's officially time to panic

If the Pacers do not reach the ECF, Vogel will be fired. This has the same feel as Isaiah's last team in 2002-2003. On paper, Indiana is just as talented as any other team. Coach's job to get them to win games. Simple as that. I think the players have stopped listening to Frank, so I'm not blaming Vogel, but wins are what coaches get judged on