This is a discussion on Abraham Lincoln:The Greatness of an ENTP? within the ENTP Forum- The Visionaries forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Originally Posted by Dizzle
Ti Ne vs Ne Ti
Ti Ne prefers to think about the topic refine it in ...

Ti Ne prefers to think about the topic refine it in their head and then present it. If they are debating a topic that is not one they are well informed on they will feel very drained by having to think on the fly.

Ne Ti prefers to think while they present and come to conclusions as they speak to reinforce their ideas. If they are debating a topic that is not one they are well informed on they will be energized by the process of having to invent things on the fly and use the other persons words against them.

But who said I'm not well informed on the topic?

I don't speak when I don't know what I'm talking about (or generally I try to follow this). When I'm debating, it's something I know well and usually feel strongly about. I don't argue with everyone I see for the sake of arguing, but I love to ponder about all the different aspects and perspectives of issues I care about.

Your Ti Ne process describes me better than the Ne Ti process does. However, it's not unusual for even a strong introvert to show a bit of extroversion around people they're comfortable expressing themselves to. I have fun arguing against my family members/myself, but generally I like to have all the logical arguments planned out beforehand.

Debate is the process of discussion where not all facts are known or there is no clear side to a topic. So being well informed in a debate is not really the point of debate. You are then lecturing not debating. And I can see that for an introvert you would be energized by the process of telling your very well thought out theories and ideas and experiences. Because it is still very mental not social.

Debate is the process of discussion where not all facts are known or there is no clear side to a topic. So being well informed in a debate is not really the point of debate. You are then lecturing not debating. And I can see that for an introvert you would be energized by the process of telling your very well thought out theories and ideas and experiences. Because it is still very mental not social.

I think it's near impossible to know every single side of an issue going in, but I like to have all my rebuttals planned, or roughly planned (P), because if I had to synthesize an entire concept on the spot I would fall flat on my ass. I like to know why whatever they are about to say will be wrong, if it is in fact wrong.

As I said, I can extrovert a bit around people with whom I'm very comfortable. But in general, I like to know what I'm talking about beforehand.

Extroversion is "the act, state, or habit of being predominantly concerned with and obtaining gratification from what is outside the self".[3] Extroverts tend to enjoy human interactions and are generally enthusiastic, talkative, assertive, and gregarious in social situations. They take pleasure in activities that involve large social gatherings such as: parties, community activities, public demonstrations, business, and political groups. Politics, teaching, sales, managing and brokering are fields that favor extroversion. An extroverted person enjoys and becomes energized by larger groups of people while time alone is less enjoyable and boring to them. Extroverts aren't necessarily unintelligent or uncaring but tend to speak or act before putting much thought into what they do; not entirely realizing the lasting effects of their decisions.

Introversion is "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life".[3] Introverts are people whose energy tends to expand through reflection and dwindle during interaction.[4] Introverts tend to be more reserved and less outspoken in large groups. They often take pleasure in solitary activities such as reading, writing, music, drawing, tinkering, playing video games, watching movies and plays, and using computers, along with some more reserved outdoor activities such as fishing and hiking. In fact, social networking sites have been a thriving home for introverts in the 21st century, where introverts are free from the formalities of social conduct and may become more comfortable blogging about personal feelings they would not otherwise disclose.

Extroverted Intuition is how you gather your information not how you get you energy. Interverted Thinking is how you process the gathered information.

E or I - has to do with where you get your energy.
J or P - has to do with your preference for planning or doing activities.

Perhaps you have a very strong subtype of ENTP, meaning you are not extremely introverted.

I've been dating him for almost 8 years, he's an INTP if I've ever seen one. Being an introvert doesn't mean that you just focus on internal activities and wouldn't get any enjoyment from doing social activities. I'm an introvert and I love being by myself so I can do all my introverted activities, but I was in a sorority too. That's about as social as it gets. The thing is introverts aren't going to feel comfortable being in a group of people if they don't have anything to bring to the table. Since it is difficult for us to feel at ease in a group of people that we don't know and who haven't had the chance to see us for who we are. I like going to parties where I know everyone there and can just be myself, but I'd never accompany a friend to a party where they were the only person I knew. I know that they'd go off and mingle then I'd be left alone once again. So I can get energy from people, just not in the same way that an extrovert might.

Interesting,As it is said that Douglas wept when Lincoln demonstrated a mockery of his style in debate,and soon received an apology from Lincoln for the deed....

Using one's words or style against their opponent in a social setting is an Ne Ti trait. So our discussion on what you thought may be an incorrect statement on my part is parallel to the topic at hand. As I understand it we are debating whether Lincoln was an INTP or an ENTP. My stance is that he is an ENTP because he had a zeal for debating and he mocked his opponents in a very public manner. The INTPs that I know do not mock people publicly, they prefer to complain and make fun of privately.

Our little side debate is actually a great example of how an INTP debating style differs from an ENTPs debating style. Mine is aggressive, yours is defensive.

However, we will never know for certain what Abraham Lincoln's MBTI was as he can never take the test....

I've been dating him for almost 8 years, he's an INTP if I've ever seen one. Being an introvert doesn't mean that you just focus on internal activities and wouldn't get any enjoyment from doing social activities. I'm an introvert and I love being by myself so I can do all my introverted activities, but I was in a sorority too. That's about as social as it gets. The thing is introverts aren't going to feel comfortable being in a group of people if they don't have anything to bring to the table. Since it is difficult for us to feel at ease in a group of people that we don't know and who haven't had the chance to see us for who we are. I like going to parties where I know everyone there and can just be myself, but I'd never accompany a friend to a party where they were the only person I knew. I know that they'd go off and mingle then I'd be left alone once again. So I can get energy from people, just not in the same way that an extrovert might.

I have never stated that introverts are anti-social. I am merely pointing out that they are not energized by external mental activities such as socializing.

Using one's words or style against their opponent in a social setting is an Ne Ti trait. So our discussion on what you thought may be an incorrect statement on my part is parallel to the topic at hand. As I understand it we are debating whether Lincoln was an INTP or an ENTP. My stance is that he is an ENTP because he had a zeal for debating and he mocked his opponents in a very public manner. The INTPs that I know do not mock people publicly, they prefer to complain and make fun of privately.

Our little side debate is actual a great example of how an INTP debating style differs from an ENTPs debating style. Mine is aggressive, yours is defensive.

However, we will never know for certain what Abraham Lincoln's MBTI was as he can never take the test....

But the process of debate is invigorating!

Hah, I was just telling aboyeraboyer up there that this argument exemplified an ENTP/INTP interaction.

I actually have no opinion (yet) on what Abe Lincoln was. My point was simply regarding introversion and debating. Other people know way more about his social interactions, which is the key here.

I might have just wandered in here to see what ENTPs were all about...

Hah, I was just telling aboyeraboyer up there that this argument exemplified an ENTP/INTP interaction.

I actually have no opinion (yet) on what Abe Lincoln was. My point was simply regarding introversion and debating. Other people know way more about his social interactions, which is the key here.

I might have just wandered in here to see what ENTPs were all about...

guarantee I won't do that again...

Don't leave! I have a very close INTP friend that I like hanging around because she's so philosophical and knows alot of interesting topics. INTPs have alot to contribute to ENTPs because of the difference between the Ti Ne (INTP) and the Ne Ti (ENTP) and vice versa. While INTPs can become overwhelmed and annoyed by ENTPs, one thing to always keep in the back of the mind when dealing with an ENTP is that we are not as aggressive and full of ourselves as we may appear and a well timed 'get over yourself' can be a wonderful catharsis.

From the ENTPs perspective INTPs can sometimes seem like they are know-it-alls that are dealing with only part of the information and not looking other possibilities that can contribute to a solution. You may have already eliminated a possibility during the thinking process, but we keep them always at hand during the testing and implementation process so when something goes awry we can problem solve immediately by pulling out plan B or plan C, etc.

Also people have different information that they bring to the table so while you may have eliminated many of the possiblities before coming to the table, there is an ENTP that has other possibilities you may not have considered during your thinking process.

Don't leave! I have a very close INTP friend that I like hanging around because she's so philosophical and knows alot of interesting topics. INTPs have alot to contribute to ENTPs because of the difference between the Ti Ne (INTP) and the Ne Ti (ENTP) and vice versa. While INTPs can become overwhelmed and annoyed by ENTPs, one thing to always keep in the back of the mind when dealing with an ENTP is that we are not as aggressive and full of ourselves as we may appear and a well timed 'get over yourself' can be a wonderful catharsis.

From the ENTPs perspective INTPs can sometimes seem like they are know-it-alls that are dealing with only part of the information and not looking other possibilities that can contribute to a solution. You may have already eliminated a possibility during the thinking process, but we keep them always at hand during the testing and implementation process so when something goes awry we can problem solve immediately by pulling out plan B or plan C, etc.

Also people have different information that they bring to the table so while you may have eliminated many of the possiblities before coming to the table, there is an ENTP that has other possibilities you may not have considered during your thinking process.

No worries friend, totally joking

I find ENTPs very interesting, in a strange sort of way since we can relate on so much. I'll be in here just as much as I'm on any PerC forum. Probably lurking mostly, because I need to know way more before I feel comfortable discussing it.

by the way, agreed on all points.

Last edited by tenthousandopenbooks; 01-28-2011 at 11:41 AM.
Reason: GIRL

You have a great match there with your INFJ, you guys are lucky. I like how she came out to defend you. INFJs are very awesome people when they care about someone. Take care of her and don't be afraid to show her just how much love you have for her.