Yahoo misses as ‘Mythbusters’

posted at 1:40 pm on August 25, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

I have to admit, I’m a bit puzzled by the Yahoo/Live Science report on polling on ObamaCare issues that Barack Obama calls “myths”. I get the idea that they want to see how Obama’s pushback will sell with the American people, but it also presents a good opportunity to do some actual reporting and determine whether Obama is telling myths of his own. Instead, the article blithely accepts Obama’s characterization, using scare quotes around the word myth as its only acknowledgment of dispute.

As it is, the headline notes that Obama hasn’t had much success in convincing the majority of Americans that these are myths at all:

67 percent of respondents believe that wait times for health care services, such as surgery, will increase (91 percent of Republicans, 37 percent of Democrats, 72 percent of Independents).

About five out of 10 believe the federal government will become directly involved in making personal health care decisions (80 percent of Republicans, 25 percent of Democrats, 56 percent of Independents).

Roughly six out of 10 Americans believe taxpayers will be required to pay for abortions (78 percent of Republicans, 30 percent of Democrats, 58 percent of Independents)

46 percent believe reforms will result in health care coverage for all illegal immigrants (66 percent of Republicans, 29 percent of Democrats, 43 percent of Independents).

Five out of 10 think cuts will be made to Medicare in order to cover more Americans (66 percent of Republicans, 37 percent of Democrats, 44 percent of Independents).

In order of their appearance, let’s do a little mythbusting ourselves:

Wait times – Arguable. As government controls more and more of the payment decisions, resources could become more scarce and wait times may increase as a result. That certainly has been the experience in Canada and the UK, two systems which Obama lauds as models for rational health-care delivery. Wait times and accessibility have gotten so bad in Canada that the state-run system has had to contract with private-sector providers in the US to alleviate the problem (and to avoid the political consequences of it).

Health care coverage for illegal immigrants – Myth, at the moment. The House bill currently has a restriction on federal funding for “undocumented aliens” (Section 246): “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

Public option will increase premiums – Reality. In fact, the entire idea of the exchanges is to force insurers to meet a standard of coverage that some plans do not now supply, for various reasons. That will force premiums up across the board, especially if “community rating” rules get applied. Maine’s DirigoChoice boondoggle proved this rather clearly.

Instead of clucking their tongues at how Americans buy into ObamaCare myths, perhaps the media might start looking at how the American people have begun to see through the myth of ObamaCare. The polling suggests that the scales have begun to fall to the roadside.

Update: Heritage disagrees with me on illegal immigrant coverage being a myth. They argue that the bill does not provide for enforcement of Section 246, which is a good point — but it doesn’t really provide for any explicit enforcement of its myriad provisions, using that metric. The bill does explicitly disallow coverage for illegal immigrants, which gives the basis for enforcement, assuming it survives to the final version.

Blowback

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The House bill currently has a restriction on federal funding for “undocumented aliens” (Section 246): “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

In other words, illegals will still be treated in emergency rooms, at our expense, as I see nothing that recinds the 1974 law requiring county hospitals from treating all, including illegal aliens, regardless of ability to pay.

Instead of clucking their tongues at how Americans buy into ObamaCare myths, perhaps the media might start looking at how the American people have begun to see through the myth of ObamaCare.

Perhaps the slavish media should stop buying into the myth that Americans are stupid. Perhaps they should accept the fact that many of us can read and have read much of this bill even if our elected representatives refuse to do so.

The Obama administration is bent on becoming a major player in — if not taking over entirely — America’s health-care, automobile and banking industries. Before that happens, it might be a good idea to look at the government’s track record in running economic enterprises. It is terrible.

In 1913, for instance, thinking it was being overcharged by the steel companies for armor plate for warships, the federal government decided to build its own plant. It estimated that a plant with a 10,000-ton annual capacity could produce armor plate for only 70% of what the steel companies charged.

When the plant was finally finished, however — three years after World War I had ended — it was millions over budget and able to produce armor plate only at twice what the steel companies charged. It produced one batch and then shut down, never to reopen.

Or take Medicare. Other than the source of its premiums, Medicare is no different, economically, than a regular health-insurance company. But unlike, say, UnitedHealthcare, it is a bureaucracy-beclotted nightmare, riven with waste and fraud. Last year the Government Accountability Office estimated that no less than one-third of all Medicare disbursements for durable medical equipment, such as wheelchairs and hospital beds, were improper or fraudulent. Medicare was so lax in its oversight that it was approving orthopedic shoes for amputees.

These examples are not aberrations; they are typical of how governments run enterprises. There are a number of reasons why this is inherently so. Among them are:

Health care coverage for illegal immigrants – Myth, at the moment. The House bill currently has a restriction on federal funding for “undocumented aliens” (Section 246): “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

Actually, there are no provisions for verification or enforcement and it is still illegal to ask a persons status. In fact amendments intorduced to ensure no illegals get care have been defeated.

I also “heard” that if one family member is eligible (anchor baby), the whole family is eligible but I haven’t verified that info.

Yahoo is just running with the talking points from the Obama Administration. They’re being told to use words like “myths” and “misinformation” to explain the declining popularity of Obamacare. In other words, the American people are so dumb, they’re being duped by the special interests and evil right-wingers.

In other words, illegals will still be treated in emergency rooms, at our expense, as I see nothing that recinds the 1974 law requiring county hospitals from treating all, including illegal aliens, regardless of ability to pay.

Vashta.Nerada on August 25, 2009 at 1:45 PM

I think it’s more subtle than this. The left knows that the filthy liar is going to be proposing amnesty sometime early next year. Why not include provisions against illegals in HR3200 when the filthy liar is going wave the amnesty wand before any of this actually goes into effect.

The lies the adminstration is telling about abortion, IMO, is a bigger problem because it is clear that the system is going to pay federal dollars for killing off life. That’s going to be a tough sell.

Health care coverage for illegal immigrants – Myth, at the moment. The House bill currently has a restriction on federal funding for “undocumented aliens” (Section 246): “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

And the Democrats have consistently rejected GOP amendments that would require verification of citizenshup status.

That’s how schip worked too. Since government entities weren’t required to prove someone is legal and they got money for signing up as many people as possible – it behooved them to register illegal aliens.

Yahoo is just running with the talking points from the Obama Administration. They’re being told to use words like “myths” and “misinformation” to explain the declining popularity of Obamacare. In other words, the American people are so dumb, they’re being duped by the special interests and evil right-wingers.

Doughboy on August 25, 2009 at 1:51 PM

Heh!! Do you suppose those words are on the Memo line of Axelblobs checks???

What the left fails to realize is that they are humans (some at least) also.
ObamaCare will hurt them as much as it hurts anyone who does not believe in it. The tragedy of the left is this. They will never admit anything they do is a mistake. When they go to sleep at night some will realize they fell for the lies but they will never admit it. They live in denial. Since this is there mindset they would rather see everyone suffer then to feel like they have lost.

Wow. You need to retract this falsehood now. Anyone who studied this issue for a few minutes would learn that there is no eligiblity verification required. As with other government services, illegal aliens will gladly suck at Uncle Sam’s teat.

The next time President Al-Barack Al-Husseini ibn Obama says “If you like your present plan, you can keep it,” someone should ask him where that is stated in the bill (depending on which pending bill is under discussion). He’d go catatonic.

About half of that are twentysomethings who don’t think they need to be paying for insurance.

If the filthy liar wanted to reform healthcare, all he’d do is close the insurance gap (those uninsured because they make too much to qualify for Medicaid but can’t afford the cost of insurance). In other words expand Medicaid, figure out how to pay the hefty bill and move on.

Instead, the rat bastard traitor is proposing a bill costing trillions with no evidence the system is so broken it needs this kind of a fix. If healthcare is a fractured limb, Obamacare’s solution is amputation of everything below the neck.

but it also presents a good opportunity to do some actual reporting and determine whether Obama is telling myths of his own.

I am good friends with many journalists (having formerly been in the biz myself) and I asked one of them a few months ago whether they were investigating the dealership scandal — which, if we recall, was covered better online than in print — and my contact, who is the publisher for more than one paper/weekly in South Carolina, told me “We just don’t have time and money for that kind of reporting any longer.” In essence, readers only want crime reports and tabloid and there’s no money in this “antiquated” form of reporting.

In other words, illegals will still be treated in emergency rooms, at our expense, as I see nothing that recinds the 1974 law requiring county hospitals from treating all, including illegal aliens, regardless of ability to pay.

Vashta.Nerada on August 25, 2009 at 1:45 PM

You are exactly correct. I have been saying this for weeks. Guess which one factor is the major cause of increased federal costs of healthcare?

Hands can’t easily be laid on the Obama man, the flim flam man.
His mind is in the Soros clouds and his talk is all make believe.
Oh lord, the man’s a fraud, he’s a flim flam man. But he’s so cagey, he’s a flim flam man.

Hands can’t easily be laid on the Obama man, the flim flam man.
He’s wrapped up in a big beautiful box making out like he’ll give out more gifts than Santa Claus.
Oh lord, the man’s a fraud, he’s a flim flam man. But he’s such a fox, he’s a flim flam man.

Everybody wants him, the Germans and the Brits, and all the Hollywood elites he does disarm.
Oh yeah, the beautiful gent, you know he’ll leave you with hardly any medical care and nary a cent.
But maybe you he can heal the sick and pay your bills with his charm.

Hands can’t easily be laid on the Obama man, the flim flam man.
His Marxist plans may be back up his sleeve but his talk is still make believe.
Oh lord, the man’s a fraud, he’s a flim flam man. He’s so cagey, he’s an artist.

46 percent believe reforms will result in health care coverage for all illegal immigrants

It is supremely doubtful the feds will be able to enroll *all* illegal aliens.

With that caveat, does yahoo want to make a bet on ANY of these provisions?

And for God’s sake, can we get the media to stop pretending that if Obama says something that is automatically a fact? If that was so unemployment would be 8% and he wouldn’t have already raised taxes on those making less then $250K.

He can’t answer questions legitimately, because he hasn’t read HR3200. Nor has congress. Bozo keeps talking about “his” bill. No one has seen this “mythical” bill. Its all in his head, with the unicorns and fairies.

And have you all noticed that his favorite song seems to be, “I wanna talk about mEEEEeeeeEEE”?

When Howard Kurtz is whining about how the media is ineffective in spinning Obama’s yarn of lies into strings of truth you know the media is in trouble.

portlandon on August 25, 2009 at 1:48 PM

It would appear that the public will buy spin, dissembling, and bias, but they can tell the difference between the skittle producing unicorns they were promised and the heaping bovine excrement they are being served.

It’s really about common sense. Most Americans, regardless of ideology or party affiliation, intuitively know that when government is involved in controlling or rendering a service, problems will abound and costs will go up.

Their daily experience informs them of this reality. Exactly whom has ever received excellent service at: the post office? The DMV? The tax office, local, state, or federal? Any regulatory body or agency, at any level… city, county, state, federal?

So, the elites and statists are non-plussed when their BS is being rejected by so many of us, despite the Herculean efforts of their mouthpieces in the state run media telling us otherwise.

It’s the same surprise they have when the vast majority of us could care less that the ACLU and the administration have their panties in a wad over terrorist interrogations.

I remember well their shock when Newt and the boys pulled off the coup of 1994. Can’t wait to see their faces in 2010.

Health care coverage for illegal immigrants – Myth, at the moment. The House bill currently has a restriction on federal funding for “undocumented aliens” (Section 246): “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

Once immigration reform is passed, they will be here legally (by their standards).

Ed, tax dollars will not necessarily be used for abortions (except as permitted by the Hyde amendment).

Premiums from people participating in the public plan, if it passes, would be used to pay for elective abortions. And taxpayer dollars could be used to subsidize premiums in the public plan. But even National Right To Life doesn’t say “tax dollars” will be used to pay for abortions. It says “public funds” will be used; those funds will come from taxpayers and other participants in the public plan.

Obama can’t take time to read the 1,000 page health care bill that will effect the lives of almost every American (the exceptions to the bill are as telling as the bill itself). But some how he has time for a “summer reading list of books” that has a combined total of 2,333 pages. At least the American public knows what his priorities are.

And why are we still talking about this Health Care nonesense? We have clearly been given the sign by the release of CIA memos, and the Holder CIA possible prosecutions and the H1N1 pandemic reports that the country has moved on and is not interested in this anymore……
nothing to see here folks, move along, move along.

Health care coverage for illegal immigrants – Myth, at the moment. The House bill currently has a restriction on federal funding for “undocumented aliens” (Section 246): “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

Sorry, Ed: but the bill EXPLICITLY provides coverage for illegal immigrants. You are victim of one of the ‘head fakes’ in the bill which allow Democrats to assert that you can’t believe your own eyes when you read the bill. The unwarranted assumption you made was that “affordability credits” were the ONLY mechanism by which illegal aliens are given health care: this is clearly a WRONG assumption.

What about Section 152 (page 50-51), which provides that healthcare will be provided to ALL non-US citizens (they don’t NEED ‘credits’)?? Note also that this provision is NOT part of the “subtitle” to which Section 246 (which you cite) refers.

And have you all noticed that his favorite song seems to be, “I wanna talk about mEEEEeeeeEEE”?

dogsoldier on August 25, 2009 at 2:04 PM

Yep. It’s hard enough to stay humble in that job even for the most grounded. It’s pathetic to watch a narcissist in there. He treats any challenge to his policies as a personal attack. My favorite so far was a presser where a reporter made a remark about “Spock-like” logic and the filthy liar thought it was referring to his honkin’ big ears.

The Capps amendment does contain a statement – as we noted in an earlier article – that prohibits the use of public money to pay for abortions, except in cases of rape, incest and to save the life of the mother. That would still allow the public plan to cover all abortions, so long as the plans took in enough private money in the form of premiums paid by individuals or their employers. The Capps language also would allow private plans purchased with federal subsidies (“affordability credits” for low-income families and workers) to cover abortion.

—More details above. Pretty clear that no tax dollars would be used, except indirectly as subsidies.

Illegal aliens. It is also supposedly a “myth” that illegal aliens currently receive medical care, other than just “emergency medical care” b/c federal law specifically prohibits it. However, we all know that is not true. What this bill does is simply extend the status quo. The House had a chance to fix the issue by specifically requiring verification of an alien’s immigration status, however, the Heller amendment was defeated on party lines.

The reality is that without some kind of enforcement/verification method, illegal aliens will be receiving Obamacare FOC, despite what the text of the bill says.

By this time next year, we will have 20 million new citizens – all voting Democratic.

faraway on August 25, 2009 at 2:14 PM

The filthy liar and his corrupt party are going to try for amnesty (probably couched in that pathway to citizenship crap from McCain-Kennedy) but I’m not sure that it is as automatic as they seem to think.

Factors working against amnesty in 2010:

1. Americans haven’t changed their opinion on amnesty.

2. It is an election year.

3. It is a lousy economy and that plays into opposition into anything that would open the door for more competition for scarce jobs.

If the filthy liar had attempted to pass this before the massive spending spree, it probably would be law by now but with his poll numbers in the tank, a lousy economy, and an energized group of dissenters; amnesty isn’t all that certain in the next year.

In other words, illegals will still be treated in emergency rooms, at our expense,

Yes, and when you have 20-30 illegals in a hospital ER waiting room, you can, as I have, take your 89 year old mother in and not be able to find a chair for her. And wait while the ER staff locates and brings in a translator. (We don’t want to insult those here illegally by forcing them to speak the language.) Yes, mom is covered by Medicare and (self-paid) supplemental Blue Cross. And yes, unlike the illegals, mom pays her own way. The illegals’ bills, however, will just be rolled into operating losses in next years hospital budget. To be paid by insurance and/or U.S. citizens. And further drive up the cost of health care.

Instead of clucking their tongues at how Americans buy into ObamaCare myths, perhaps the media might start looking at how the American people have begun to see through the myth of ObamaCare. The polling suggests that the scales have begun to fall to the roadside.

But that would be telling the truth to the American people, and we can’t have that!!!

Instead of clucking their tongues at how Americans buy into ObamaCare myths, perhaps the media might start looking at how the American people have begun to see through the myth of ObamaCare. The polling suggests that the scales have begun to fall to the roadside.

Are we still debating what the media should do? I think we all agree what they should do. Our media (both on the Right and Left) has morphed into something more opinionated. It’s up to the individual to sort through the garbage. Sad truth, but why do we get so surprised when we continuously bump into media bias, if you will?

Now, if only we could get Glenn Beck to be a real journalist. I /sarc, I /sarc.

Pretty clear that no tax dollars would be used, except indirectly as subsidies.

Jimbo3 on August 25, 2009 at 2:16 PM

Leaving aside the blatant sophistry of the Capps amendment to find loopholes to undermine the Hyde Amendment… That is to say leaving aside the moral issues surrounding killing off life with taxpayer dollars:

IT’S BAD PUBLIC POLICY TO SET UP SCHEMES WHERE PUBLIC AND PRIVATE DOLLARS ARE CO-MINGLED AS PROPOSED BY THIS PIECE OF CRAP AMENDMENT. But, of course that bad policy is by design. Once co-mingled, there is no way to stop federally funded abortions which is precisely why the whore proposed this scheme.

WHile I’m sure its been mentioned here before, the issue of covering illegals will be solved quite handily by Barry and the boys. The bill may end up saying “no covering undomcumentad aliens” but remember, Shamnesty 2 is coming very soon. All the river jumpers need to do is hold on 6-9 months until they are given citizenship and BAM! covered.
As far as a news source, Yahoo can’t be trusted to report sky color.

Health care coverage for illegal immigrants – Myth, at the moment. The House bill currently has a restriction on federal funding for “undocumented aliens” (Section 246): “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

Their access to public education might be of some useful guidance. It would be interesting to see the litigation process and justification used. I imagine a similar path and outcome would be applicable.

as an ex democrat after 25 years of voting Dem, I’m not dumb enough to believe any political party. I’ve read the bill and there are no “myths” that Obama speaks of. What there is, is Obama is lying mispeaking through his teeth, claiming these things do not exist when in fact they do.

You can read it with your own eyes, the bill is posted online. Apparently Obama and the elected Dems expected the American people to be just as lazy and stupid as they are-they DID NOT expect anyone, never mind millions, would actually read the bill and discover the truth for themselves.

Anyone the believes Obama that actual facts are Myths he claims, deserves to get soaked and have their healthcare rationed. There is no cure for the common stupid Obama and his cult display

Funny, niteowl. I’ve read parts of the bill, and think Ed’s wrong on a few points. ‘Course I also think Sarah Palin is a filthy liar or just wholly braindead about what she said. But what do you expect from white trash from Alaska?

I keep hearing that this reform is necessary because of 47 million uninsured Americans. If 47 million more people start competing for the same resources (most obviously, doctors’ time), then those resources will be stretched further, resulting in increased wait times.

Teaching JHS in Queens NY perhaps 70% of my kids are immigrants or children of immigrants. We are not permitted to ask parents about their status, ask to see Green Cards, or ask any question related to immigration status. No hospital in NYC is permitted to ask similar questions. Will illegals be covered? In the expression of the only GOPer actually fighting this fight, “You betcha!”

If you or your family is in a private plan that now pays for abortion or birth control, part of your premiums are now going to pay for those items.

Jimbo3 on August 25, 2009 at 2:50 PM

Your point being? The Hyde Amendment is clear about the use of federal dollars for killing off innocent life. If the bastards of your dogma want to change the law, do it. In the meantime, these schemes to bypass the law to suit a social position is offensive. And I’ll repeat, any program where dollars are co-mingled is bad public policy whether it is education dollars, welfare dollars, or the way it is proposed here. I can’t do much about existing programs but I can stand up in opposition when there is a chance of making things right.

Niteowl45… the plan was to ram it through before ANY one read it… like they did with Porkulus and CapNTax… they will reintroduce the whole thing under a different name… or split into parts… but the technique will be the same. Get it voted on before it’s read.

TRUTH:
Congress and the U.S. Government administer Social Security, Medicare, the Post Office, and other federal programs that any one, whom has to use these programs knows, are fraught with problems; And the Congress that mismanages these offices and programs, and is on a steadfast march to bankrupt the country through the federal deficit and other self serving programs, wants the American People to trust them in their ability to administer a federal health care program of any sort? HOW STUPIDLY INSANE ARE WE?

The bill does explicitly disallow coverage for illegal immigrants, which gives the basis for enforcement, assuming it survives to the final version.

Normally I agree with you Ed, but not this time. The Feds, some states (California being one) and some cities (San Fran being one) are notorious for not enforcing current laws regarding illegal immigrants. With that said what makes you believe enforcement of this particular provision in the Health Care bill will be any different?

As for me I can already see how the feds, some states and cities will handle this provision; in addition to already being “sanctuary cities” they’ll just deem themselves “healthcare/sanctuary cities” and if anyone complains or tries to enforce the law they’ll be labeled as rrrraaaaaaaccccciiiiiisssst or threatened to be prosecuted for “civil rights violations” as they are doing to Sherriff Joe currently!

Nope, doesn’t matter one bit if there is a “provision” in the bill, without enforcement it’s meaningless! This is a door that should never be opened because once it is it will be very difficult to turn back the tide of socialism, Marxism, and fascism!

The Hyde Amendment has prohibited the direct use of federal funds for most (or almost all) abortions since the late 70′s. It also prohibited the use of federal funds to pay for any health care plans that allowed most abortions since the late 90s. It does not prohibit the use of state or private funds to pay for abortions. The biggest difference in the proposed plan is that the private funds would go first to the federal government, but would be segregated.