Blake to IR; C.J. Davis back to 53-man roster

Douglas LeeSep 18, 2012 4:07 PM

The Broncos are placing fourth-round pick center/guard Philip Blake on IR, and promoting center C.J. Davis from the practice squad to take his place on the 53-man roster. Adam Grant, who spent the 2011 season on Denver's practice squad, will rejoin the group in place of Davis.

Blake was inactive for Denver's first two games and was listed on the team's injury report as having a "Thump" issue which limited his practice on Saturday. So, either thump injuries are a big deal, or something else has happened to Blake.

Davis made the team out of training camp but was cut loose to facilitate the addition of veteran center Dan Koppen.

Doug is IAOFM’s resident newsman and spelling czar. Follow him on Twitter @IAOFM

I simply wanted to mention that I think Blake being on IR is a good place for him right now. He will get time to get more comfortable in the NFL without pressure to be producing right now. I think that he can have a good future in pro football.

I agree about Tebow - I have growled about that one from the onset. Happy to see him gone.

I have fussed about Walton and Beadles. They were thrust into a difficult situation. Had Beadles began the season at LG in 2010 - it might have been better for him. Walton should benefit from playing with Koppen.

When Franklin went out against Atlanta - my heart went into my throat. I would like to see better depth. We will get there.

This was a good thread. Thanks, Doug.

Posted by BlackKnigh on 2012-09-20 19:13:36

Royal: I think the "pattern" you asked about is no different from any other well managed, well coached team with decent scouts in the league...plus Elway said three drafts > one more to go...As as side note, I can remember when folks thought DT and Decker were gonna be busts due to injuries etc....didnt DT make headlines when he said " I'm no bust!" as he said he would set out to prove it...now both with three years in the league and a real quarterback what are we saying?

Posted by denverkewl on 2012-09-19 08:01:59

Hillman will deliver.

Posted by MississippiMudWalk on 2012-09-19 04:22:02

Just to add to your point on Hightower. His strengths are to rush the passer and play the run but is not as comfortable in coverage. In this system I would have thought the coaches would want to use him as a pass rusher in Nickel and Dime packages but they already have Miller who fills that role so a high round pick would have been wasted IMO. I think in this years draft Te'o and Mosley (if he declares) fill that MLB role far better.

Posted by Steve Williams on 2012-09-19 02:40:43

Thanks, HH. I appreciate the comment. I did a lot of predraft research on Bolden, and was hoping the Broncos would draft him. That may be clouding my judgement.

You could do worse than following the Steelers' blue print for success. My frustration is in the balancing act that the front office is trying to pull off: build for the future while winning now. My inclenation would be to give Manning all the tools necessary for success, right away. That's why it's tough to watch these guys (mostly) sitting on the sidelines. We all want them to come in and set the league on fire. Is it too much to ask for another Von Miller? I kid, I kid.

Posted by Royalwithcheese on 2012-09-19 02:00:13

good response..

Let me add it is the second game of the season under YET another DC with another scheme, 7 for 7 IIRC how do you develop talent if the book changes daily..

for the most part if your not taking players in the top ten chances are they are going to take time to develop and even those up there have sky high expectations..

You her it evry year the draft is a crap shoot and IMO John has done a damned fine job so far..

It was not like he ONLY had a couple of positions he had to bring up to a reasonable standard..

about the only spot on the team that was set was Bailey, Doom and Clady maybe Kuper.. beyond that ALL the spots have been up for grabs.. let me add the kicker were set also.. but that is really only 4 spots out of 22 starters that were not in doubt..

How about we cut John Boy some slack..

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2012-09-19 01:00:08

Another way to look at it is the Broncos are building depth. I think most of us have a level of admiration for what the Steelers do on a consistent basis. Most of their draft picks do not play early. They get a year to build a pro body and develop their technique. Even after a year if there happens to be a better player ahead of you, you wont play.

You singled out Bolden. Do you expect him to play over Bailey, Porter or Harris? I sure don't. I can also see why Carter played ahead of him. Carter had had more time in the pro game and right now is a better CB. That does not mean that if you compare their careers in 15 years Bolden isn't the better player.

Bottom line is we all want these guys to succeed and to do so as soon as possible so the Broncos can be as good as possible. They will do so on their own timetable and I am a patient man. I will let it play out. I understand your sense of urgency though and appreciate your passion.

Posted by Horse_Head_Bookends on 2012-09-18 23:43:06

Well, I sure stirred up a hornets nest with that comment. Added some spice to my day, I suppose.

Just to clarify: not once did I use the word "bust." I'm all for giving draft picks time to develop. I didn't suggest they release anyone drafted in the past two years (though they already have done that with Muhamed).

What I said is actually a plain statement of fact: six picks taken in the first four rounds over the last two years aren't yet contributing in a meaningful way. Os, Blake, Carter, JT, Bolden and Irving are unlikely to see any significant action this year, barring injury. I don't get what folks find so controversial.

If you think it's too early to pass judgement on picks from the most recent draft class, I agree. Who's to say that Hillman won't turn into the next Shady McCoy, for example? As I said earlier, though, a few picks higher from Elway's first draft haven't panned out thus far. That's just the truth. That doesn't mean they won't develop into starters. It just means they haven't to this point.

Last thing I'll say on this: I don't think I was misrepresenting Elway's position on Bolden. He may have said that he was a first-round talent "when healthy" or "before the injury." No matter. He still said he was a talented corner. Forgive me if I took that to mean he'd compete for PT right away. Guess I should've learned long ago not to take the Duke at his word.

Posted by Royalwithcheese on 2012-09-18 22:33:20

Evaluating draft picks before the third year, from the living room or bar, is pretty presumptious. Depending upon the position, it takes that much time or longer to have any idea of a player's potential. Rarely, a player excels earlier, and mostly in only a few positions (i.e. RB, sometimes TE). Most positions take some time to grow into physically (depending upon body type and training diligence, etc.), mentally (depending upon football intelligence and dedication to preparation and film study, etc.) and instinctually (depending upon the effectiveness of and frequency of intentional repetition and experience, etc.)The place one starts from also has influence.Those who see questions about the Blake acquisition, as well as Mays, Moore, et alle, are the same ones who questioned the selections of Franklin, Walton, Beadles, et alle. They will always know better. Frankly, I seldom read their posts anymore (don't have the time to spend - I notice in a quick survey that 20 of the comments on this post were made by those I seldom read; however, 10 were made by those I always read).Drafts are always a crap shoot. However, IMO, any analysis of this year's crop, at this point, is both premature and pretentious. I like the Wolfe pick. I think the Osweiler pick was smart. And my initial reaction to the Jackson, Trevathan and Bolden picks is positive. Hillman I'm still thinking.From last year's draft I've seen noticeable improvement in the play of Moore and Franklin.From 2010, DT and Decker, whom many gave up on last year, have demonstrated to me that it is wise to wait at least three years to voice an opinion you can't hedge. Beadles and Walton also seem different players from the ones everyone else was trashing until the first game this year. (I was prettyneutral about the Cox, Olsen and Thompson picks, and thought the Tebow pick was a mistake from the beginning - the first time I questioned McD's savvy).IMO it's a good chance that by the time of the FA signing and draft of next year, we'll have a much better idea of where players like Wolfe, Osweiller, Jackson, Trevathan and Bolden, perhaps even Johnson, are going to figure in the ultimate scheme of things. That's six players from this year's draft that could figure prominently given the small amount of information available and extrapolating from the noticeable development of Franklin and Moore (even Von, who starred last year) experience in just one year. That DT and Decker could become stars and Beadles and Walton could become above average OL players, IMO, is not a bad result from 2010.I'd feel stupid writing off anyone in the 2012 class at this point. (and probably regard as stupid anyone else who does). In fact, I expect that some of my expectations for future attention may already be in development with present personnel - i.e. LB, QB, DE, S, perhaps even TE.However, in my perfect world, I'd always try to draft early the following (probably in this order); DT, OL, CB, S, & LB. IMO there are so many RBs and WRs, and the ability to predict how any of them will do in the NFL is so uncertain, I'd take them later.

Posted by ivanthenotsobad on 2012-09-18 22:04:54

BRASO It's my opinion that at this time, he's not able to keep up with his responsibilities within the scheme as it's set up. JDR has tried to minimize that problem but it's been a bigger difficulty than I believe that they expected.

Posted by Doc Bear on 2012-09-18 21:13:14

billyricky I think you are missing the point. Wolfe is showing to be a great pick at this point, Os? ask me in hopefully 5 years. MLB is and has been an issue for years and to not have brought in competition for the position because you are sold on Mays seems like an oversight.

Posted by BRASO on 2012-09-18 21:07:56

Doc Bear Thanks Doc that explains a lot. But is the current scheme not for him to show up in the stats, or is he just ineffective. I really dont want to slam the guy if he is doing his job and I just dont understand what his job actually is.

Posted by BRASO on 2012-09-18 20:58:45

To those saying the Broncos should have taken Hightower: they got Wolfe and Bolden by trading down from the first round pick. Is that a trade you would make - Wolfe and Bolden for Hightower? There was no way Wolfe would have lasted until the Broncos next pick (which became Osweiler).

Posted by billyricky on 2012-09-18 20:31:26

BRASO Glad to. The team felt that Mays, having never played MLB before last season, could be trained and improved greatly, able to start effectively. So, they gave him a good contract - it was a calculated bet that had a downside even then. To hold up his end, he put in a ton of time in the offseason and when it was legal they worked with him. The bad news - it doesn't seem to have helped so far. And, here we are.

I'd be perfectly happy trying out Trevathan at Mike - he's probably not big enough to handle it full time all season, but might make a good stopgap measure (Beason was his size, but it's worth remembering that Beason has dealt with multiple injuries that might - might - be in part due to his size). They kept Steven Johnson on the PS for a reason - if they start him at Mike this year, he, as much as or more than Trevathan, will probably get killed (Trevathan has better instincts, IMO). However, with a year of hard training in the weight/film rooms, he's got good potential to compete for the position.

And, there will be the cadre that holds out for a 1st round MLB. Being chosen in the 1st round isn't necessary to success as a Mike, especially since they've become more fungible IF they fit the scheme well enough. That might even be overkill, but it could also make sense depending on who's out there. Denver also needs another DT (nose if possible) and could use a stronger interior OL as well as a Mike and perhaps a TE, perhaps a WR or CB, all depending on how the year goes.

If the draft fell differently, I was secretly lusting over having Lavonte David on the Broncos, but I'm pretty thrilled with Wolfe.

Posted by Doc Bear on 2012-09-18 20:29:22

I'm with BRASO.I feel surprisingly OK about this loss.Under McD, that is a 40+ point blowout after the ceiling falls in during the 1st Qtr.This team fought to the end and darn near overcame 4 turnovers on the road.Maybe they played badly but they sure played hard.

Posted by Alaskan on 2012-09-18 20:23:07

Doc, looks like I need to learn to scroll down before adding comments. :)

Seriously, I remember the "bust" comments coming out the instant Demaryius tore his Achilles tendon and how some pundits predicted that he was never going to be the same. Fast forward to today and those people are either quiet on the subject or acting like they never said that.

I understand people's unhappiness with Mays and I wasn't a fan of his re-signing, but as I recall, it came because Jack Del Rio liked him and thought he was a good fit for his scheme. And while he is good at Run D, and I think his tackling is a little better, the real issue with him is that he struggles in coverage.

But given that Mays is generally good in run D, it's probably not surprising he's still with the team. I can remember how many years Bronco fans complained about the run defense, and for good reason, and now look at what the Broncos have done on run D the first two games. Mays isn't the only reason but he's been a part.Can an upgrade be found? Sure. But it's not an overnight process, as you allude to, Doc. Pieces are falling into place, they just aren't all there yet. And even as I would like to see the Broncos find an upgrade over Mays in the future, even as I recognize his strengths in run D, I'm willing to be patient and trust that the Broncos will find that player.

Posted by Bob on 2012-09-18 20:19:53

Royal, my point is this: In order to evaluate a player, you need to take a look at how he progresses from one year to the next and not just have expectations based solely on where he's drafted. I won't argue that Rahim Moore was a disappointment as a rookie, but the key is for him to get better and I am seeing him get better, even if he's not doing everything as well as I would like him to be just yet.

But given that he is getting better, that gives me reason to believe he will continue to improve and develop into the player that the Broncos would like him to be. If he was regressing or just spinning on his wheels, I would see it differently... especially if he was regressing.

But he's definitely NOT regressing, so I'm not going to declare him a whiffed draft pick. By the end of the season, we'll have the real picture, as we can compare what he did over the course of the season to what he did last season, and what he did from the first game to the last.

As far as what goes into player development, I think Doc and Ted can speak to that more than I can because, IIRC, they've both written on the subject previously and what goes into it.

Posted by Bob on 2012-09-18 20:06:20

Doc Bear I would really love for you to touch on the Joe Mays thing. I am at a loss here....

Posted by BRASO on 2012-09-18 19:52:52

Royal, I think you are misquoting Elway and Fox, on purpose or by mistake. I'm pretty sure the qualifier on the quote is 'before his knee injury'. Of course missing the playing time he did will set him back.

It sounds like you expect most of the rookies and 2nd year guys to be seeing significant playing time. Can you give an example of a time where that has happened? What team has ever had most of its current and prior years draftees get significant playing time? I don't think you can, because I don't think it has ever happened.

Posted by A R on 2012-09-18 19:52:48

@Bob Interesting, isn't it? I remember just fine that D. Thomas was being declared a bust because he was injured much of his first year - he didn't even get to regular season games in Year 2 before he was an 'obvious' wasted pick. Decker? More of the same. Strange how little of that you hear this year about those two.

Hightower was more important than Derek Wolfe and the two extra picks that permitted them? Au contraire, mon frere. Denver needs a better MLB, sure, but they were desperate for a multi-talented DE/DT and additional draft picks.

A 4th round developmental OG is injured and he's suddenly a bust? Are you even aware of how long it takes to get a player w/o much NFL background up to speed, or did you like what happened when Beadles and Walton were thrown into the fire their first year out? The coaches might or might not be unhappy with J. Thomas - I'm flat out positive that the coaches expected to have to spend time to develop him, and how long they had in mind is something that neither of us knows. Hillman is learning the system and has been healing a hammie, and by Game 2 he's, what, at least got an excuse? Amazing. Bolden was rehabbing a major injury before camp and Fox has always used veterans when possible -once they took on Leonard for punts, Bolden is appropriately limited to STs, which is commonly where 1st year players make their bones. Since he wasn't going to take over for Bailey, Porter or Harris, what's the real difference if he's the 4th or 5th CB? It's still mostly a ST/injury minutes role. In neither case was he expected to do much beyond what he's doing.

I'm curious as to how the Broncos are supposed to develop players without taking players on who need to be developed. It's really quite a trick, if you can manage it.

Posted by Doc Bear on 2012-09-18 19:49:14

A "Thump" injury is very peculiar to players who play center, and it is both debilitating and embarassing. It is usually suffered while playing with an unfamiliar QB. On rare occassions, rookie QBs have been known to inflict this injury on the guard rather than the center.

The name is derived from the two body parts involved, and "Thump" is considered the more discreet phrasing over the vernacular "Thass."

Posted by DCJ1 on 2012-09-18 19:26:38

Dang, I can only Like Breedlove's post once...

Posted by pubkeeper on 2012-09-18 19:15:09

Considering Bailey, Porter and Harris are on the roster he was never going to be anything other than 4th or 5th and with a year off last season because of injury I am not surprised that he is going to take a while.

Posted by Steve Williams on 2012-09-18 19:02:11

Bob, Steve: I get that coaches are expected to talk up their picks. Was it unreasonable, though, to expect Bolden to be something more than the fifth CB? I don't think so. And Bob, I might be impatient with Moore, but when your argument is essentially, "hey, look, he doesn't screw up the most basic aspects of his position anymore," that's not exactly an endorsement.

Sleepy: I think it's a little early to declare victory on Beadles and Walton. I'd be mighty surprised if both of them started next year. Didn't Walton rate as literally the worst starting center in football last year? Beadles wasn't far behind among guards.

Posted by Royalwithcheese on 2012-09-18 18:47:40

sleepyteak If #18 is going to throw deep it needs to be jumpball type plays to DT. With as big and fast as he is I am shocked we dont see 2-3 attempts a game like this. Deep middle throws to Stokley are not going to get it done, not today or even 10 years ago.

Was also very impressed with shutting Julio Jones and the running game down.

Posted by BRASO on 2012-09-18 18:18:49

I am not sure where your expectations about Bolden have come from. If a 4th round rookie is going to make it, it is unlikely to be by the 2nd game of his 1st season.

Posted by Steve Williams on 2012-09-18 18:09:42

Braso I agree. When a team can go on the road and take on one of the better teams in the league, give up 4 turnovers and 100 penalty yards and only lose by 6 is a team in good shape. My concern is that Manning throwing deep this year is 4-10 with 3 int.s

Posted by sleepyteak on 2012-09-18 18:05:19

I'm particularly all right with only giving up 2.4 yards per carry.

Posted by Captain_Reynolds on 2012-09-18 18:03:54

I don't understand it either. I get that he brings the wood, is a good citizen and all that, but he's so one dimensional it made no sense to sign him to the contract they did.

Posted by Captain_Reynolds on 2012-09-18 18:01:06

McD's 2009 draft was bad but 2010 has given the Broncos 4 starters. That is good in anyone's book.

Posted by sleepyteak on 2012-09-18 17:57:15

Royalwithcheese, of course coaches are going to talk up draft picks -- it's what they do. Every coach does it, every GM does it, the Broncos are not unusual in this aspect. It's better if people stop taking things at face value and spend time understanding how the development of a player works and not expect "instant gratification" just because of typical pundit talk.

Posted by Bob on 2012-09-18 17:49:46

Captain_Reynolds Im not even trying to go back in time as far as the draft, but I do agree with your thoughts on Hightower, and I do think Os was a luxury pick at best. Obviously they saw something in Mays to not only bring him back but to give him a raise. Whats the disconnect here with what they thought they saw and his current level of production?

Posted by BRASO on 2012-09-18 17:43:37

Why I'm hoping we use our first round pick next year on Manti Te'o.

Posted by Chuck Breedlove on 2012-09-18 17:43:24

Wow, guys. And I'm the one overreacting? I didn't say that these picks wouldn't ever contribute. I'm just saying that they're not contributing in a major way right now.

If you don't think Irving and JT have been major disappointments, you're kidding yourselves. If you don't think they expected more out of Moore, Blake and Bolden, then I don't know what to tell you. Hillman, I expect will contribute moving forward.

Clearly, this has been balanced by hitting on later picks -- they've found good value late or UDFAs in Green, Harris, Johnson, etc. Miller and Franklin are standouts. But guess what? You're supposed to find good players in the first and second rounds. Drafting well in the middle rounds is what separates average from the elite. And so far -- so far -- the majority of those picks are either inactive or sitting on the bench.

Posted by Royalwithcheese on 2012-09-18 17:42:44

This is why I was so disappointed that we didn't pull the trigger on Hightower when we had the chance. Yes, I've heard all the "but he's a 3-4 guy" and all the "but he's a SAM" and I'm not buying it. Not at 6-3 270 and can run like he can. As far as "he can't cover anyone", the next receiver Mays covers will be the first! We'll never know, but based on the pre-draft hype, I suspect we could have stayed put and still gotten Wolfe and Ossweiler.

Posted by Captain_Reynolds on 2012-09-18 17:35:55

nice ridiculous use of hyperbole. It's a little too early to rate these drafts after and grand total of 20 games.

Posted by Joel Andrew Stevens on 2012-09-18 17:26:19

Ryan Hennigan I am surprisingly ok with this loss. My desire was to be 2-2 after a tough 4 games to start the year. This was a great loss to take, based on how they lost and didnt give up I am more than ok with it.

Posted by BRASO on 2012-09-18 17:16:34

So two games into their first season and 3rd round Hillman and 4th round Bolden are being judged as draft picks offering nothing. Ridiculous.

Posted by Steve Williams on 2012-09-18 17:15:05

Os, Hillman, Blake, Bolden? This year's draft class? The pattern I see is that most rookies don't set the NFL on fire. Espeically those drafted outside of the top of the first round. It's been that way since I started following football in 1985.

But yes, sometimes a rookie is awesome from day 1. Very very few are, but it happens. And John Elway drafted one of them.

Posted by A R on 2012-09-18 17:09:00

A little touchy after a loss huh fellas?

Posted by Ryan Hennigan on 2012-09-18 17:05:35

So these picks counter the likes of Von Miller, Orlando Franklin, Virgil Green and Derek Wolfe, and an undrafted rookie like Chris Harris? And every pick has to pay instant dividends to be a success?

I am well aware of Moore's issues with penalties (although the one he got in Week One is debatable whether it should have been called) but when you consider the issues he had last year with tackling and angles, he's doing much better in that department. He's not where he needs to be, but he has improved. I'm willing to give him time, as opposed to if he had been regressing.

Nate Irving looks like a depth player and that's fine. Ronnie Hillman has been inactive because they want him to get up to speed with the offense and improve his blocking. Omar Bolden has been solid as a kick returner with the only issue he needs to learn is when it's time to return a kick and when it's time to take the touchback. Time will tell if he becomes good depth at cornerback.

You don't always get ROI instantly. It doesn't work that way. Do not fall into the trap of the Extremely Stupid Pundit Nonsense that likes to hype every rookie who looks great in Week One or Week Two as the next big thing and the sign the guys that drafted him are some genius at work.

Posted by Bob on 2012-09-18 17:02:56

thedoctor692 LOL, was hoping for more incite... but I love the black and white response.

Posted by BRASO on 2012-09-18 16:43:32

Royalwithcheese I just dont get it, how can he either 1. be that out of position, or 2. miss that many tackles. I dont watch tape enough to understand the defensive side of the ball but this just seems beyond lackluster for a starting MLB

Posted by BRASO on 2012-09-18 16:38:05

Because Joe Mays sucks, and no, it's not acceptable.

Posted by thedoctor692 on 2012-09-18 16:35:55

I WANT PLAYERS TO PLAY NOW>>>SCREW THE FUTURE!!!!!

Posted by 46n2ahead on 2012-09-18 16:35:31

"If you look historically, teams get 2.3 starters per draft ...Judging productive players or players who have NFL-caliber traits over the last five or six years, he sees a .560 hit percentage for the first and second rounds; .350 for the third, fourth and fifth rounds; and .333 for the sixth and seventh rounds." Source: Titans GM Mike ReinfeldtNot every pick is a success. It also takes a year or two for some picks, give it some time. Elway is doing just fine on his draft rates, imo, especially compared to McDaniels.

Posted by thedoctor692 on 2012-09-18 16:34:50

Could Irving be worse? Trevathan? Steve Johnson? How long has MLB been a problem on this team?

Posted by Royalwithcheese on 2012-09-18 16:27:18

Add Blake to the list of draft picks who have added little or no value in Elway's first two years at the helm. Not that he was going to play this year anyway, given how poorly he played in the preseason.

Irving, JT, Os, Hillman, Blake, Bolden. Personally, I'd add Moore to that list, since I don't think he brings anything to this defense and will end up washing out. Carter is TBD.

Not counting Moore, that's six picks in the first four rounds providing no ROI. Anyone else see a pattern here? Does it give you confidence that the front office will draft players next year at positions of need (OL, DT, DE, MLB, S) that can make an impact for a team supposedly trying to win now with an aging QB?

Posted by Royalwithcheese on 2012-09-18 16:25:27

off topic but would love for someone to explain to me why our starting MLB has only 3.5 tackles in 2 games, and whether or not thats acceptable.