On Wednesday evening, a guy shot himself at OakTree gun club in Newhall. I don't have all of the details yet but it was a suicide and he did use a handgun. This story is sad in many ways but the relevant part for this forum is that once again, the public is hearing that guns = death and violence.

yes it is sad that someone is in such a state that they will take their own life or worse yet take someone with them that they don't even know. Any time a gun is used like this, it is a black mark on all gun owners.

Quote: "yes it is sad that someone is in such a state that they will take their own life or worse yet take someone with them that they don't even know. Any time a gun is used like this, it is a black mark on all gun owners."

How is someone going to "take someone with them" by committing suicide with a gun? Unless the bullet completely passes through the person and strikes someone else, then it's very unlikely they are going to "take someone with them" by shooting themself.

Second, how is this a "black mark on all gun owners"? A gun is simply a tool. It can be used in many different ways........ some good, some bad. If someone drove their car 130 mph and slammed into a tree, would you consider this a black mark on ALL people who drive cars?

Easy there, Easystreet. On point 1, he was obviously referring to situations when people commit homicide/suicide. On point 2, he's simply pointing how how those ignorant of guns tend to react and generalize when guns are involved in death for any reason. It's not logical -- it's emotion-based. But this kind of thinking is common these days, and we gun owners need to be aware of such ignorance and deal with it if we intend to fight-off those who would strip us of our rights.

Gary your point is well taken, especially re: "a black mark on gunowners"...
That said however, I kinda think Easy is expressing a sentiment many of us are feeling these days...we're DAMN SICK AND TIRED of being encouraged by the mainstream media, AND ignorant people to somehow feel personally "tainted" when some nut job commits a crime with a firearm.

"That said however, I kinda think Easy is expressing a sentiment many of us are feeling these days...we're DAMN SICK AND TIRED of being encouraged by the mainstream media, AND ignorant people to somehow feel personally "tainted" when some nut job commits a crime with a firearm."

Don your point is well taken also but in your own words "ignorant people" Most are so ignorant that the only way they can make sense of the violence is get rid of guns. This is what they are ignorant about in the first place. It isn't the fault of the gun.

I am not saying they are right but I am thinking everyone is so interested in educating those that would own guns. I believe that we should be educating those that will never own guns. About how fruitless outlawing gun would be in the first place.

shannon391 there is a couples ways of looking at that at least he chose not to do it in public. Where might have endangered John Q Public or at home. Where he might have endangered other members of his family.

I am not seeing any details did he do this off by himself or was he in the Club house or in his vehicle in the parking lot. There just isn't enough information to judge. I am not condoning what he did but the anti's can't say he disregarded everyone on main street.

The real tragedy in a suicide, especially like this, is that he probably was giving warning signs for months and no one picked up on them. Suicide is a very selfish act designed to hurt others. Still a tragedy. Better he did it this way and not by driving or by "cop". He only hurt himself. It is no reflection on guns. There are far more suicides by motor vehicles [hidden by alcohol] than any thing else. More details will be released when the coroner contacts family members. Fred

I don't think anyone can say something like "suicide is a very selfish act". It may seem selfish to those who learn about it later, but who really knows what is going on in the mind of the person who does it. There are probably lots of different reasons for suicide. I can even envision some un-selfish ones which might seem laudible. Don't get me wrong. I am not in favor of suicide but, unless you are in the shoes of the victim, you can't possibly know why he did it or what he felt that led him to it.

In any event, it is certainly a tragedy and puts the victim beyond any help.

I don't publish such stories on my website for my own reasons and not to give people ideas. From my readings at least a dozen such deaths at indoor ranges per year, if not more.

A number of indoor ranges have implemented polices that you can't be in the range by yourself. That has still not stopped those that choose to go that route. As clubs with those polices still seen suicides.

I know of one person who went out and shot a round of sporting clays. Excused himself on the walk back to the club house and took his life. It turned out he was about to charged with a number of crimes.

Also, before we hear from the anti-gun crowd. I've read that a rather large number of motor vehicle deaths each year (100's if not more) is contributed to suspected suicide.

I think that in many (or perhaps MOST) instances, you are totally wrong when you say "Suicide is a very selfish act designed to hurt others."

While I don't know the personal situation of this individual who killed himself at the gun club, there are MANY suicides which are committed because of terminal illnesses in which the victim is attempting to spare his family all the grief, disruption, heartache, and financial hardship of a long term fatal illness.

I don't blame anyone for choosing their method of exit from this world as long as it doesn't hurt others. If they want to linger, suffer, cause anguish to their loved ones, and perhaps even financial ruin in order to delay the inevitable for another several months, then that's their choice.

On the other hand, if they want to go quickly and painlessly and spare themself and their family the ordeal of a long drawn-out fatal illness, then I certainly won't criticize that either.

Now if you are talking about a 16 year old kid who commits suicide because his girlfriend broke up with him, then that's a different story.

For those of you who do not like my terminology, I suggest that you take a suicide prevention class[es]. I speak from years of training and hands on therapy sessions. I only hope that I saved a few lives during this time. Fred

At a place I used to work, we had a drainage pond out front with a fountain in it. Found a guy floating face-down in it one morning. He was a terminal cancer patient from the local nursing home. Drove his car up, got out and dived in...he must have been in some pain, because he left the door open and engine running.

I've never taken "suicide prevention classes," but even if I did, I wouldn't feel it qualified me to pass judgement on another human being in that situation. Your life belongs to you. There are usually others to consider, yes, but expecting someone else to waste away in pain because you haven't "got your mind around it yet" would be truly selfish.