Unfortunately, teachers who speak their minds/say what they are really thinking like Lama Ole and Trungpa seem to have a need for guards. Who can forget Trungpa's vajra guards? Practicing freedom of speech can get you in a lot of hot water in the hierarchical culture of Tibetan Buddhism. The need for a bodyguard for a Buddhist teacher is indeed strange, but things got very strange during the early days of the Karmapa issue. I witnessed the violent attack on KIBI, and it was unbelievably ugly; I heard that things were even worse when many of the 16th Karmapa's monks were thrown out of Rumtek. I don't know why having a difference of opinion concerning a reincarnation needs to be such a problem. Anyway, I've seen Lama Ole about 7 times--never saw him with a bodyguard.

This seems to be an opinion piece ... the last paragraph is heart-rending - do Central Europeans not understand that Europe has had a Muslim presence for at least 520 years? Then the repetition of simplistic statements acting as rules by the 10 year old boy - heart rending .... it's exactly the prejudice that we fought against in Germany in the 80's and 90's ....

This is also an opinion piece with a response by John Wojcik in response to the first opinion piece listed followed by a response written by Joanna Rajkowska (she penned the first opinion piece listed didn't she?).

Wojcik claims that radical Islam is afoot and that he was never a member of the Association of Karma Kagyu Buddhists and Rajkowska claims amongst other things that Vajrayana Buddhism is a splinter group. So the two opinion pieces are a food fight between two people.

However Vajrayana Buddhism is getting tarred in this as is DW and Ole. He must take responsibility and issue a clarification about the situation otherwise this will create problems for Buddhists in Europe and possibly worldwide and will damage Buddhist-Muslim relations.

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

conebeckham wrote:
Also, on a tangent, man, that "Transcultural Buddhism" blog is disturbing.

No kidding. Nothing like fear mongering in the name of Dharma.
This is a very strange and very disturbing method that is implemented by other fringe groups as well.

Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

The Polish stuff happened in April 2010, has there been no official explanation forthcoming from DW or Ole Nydahl since then?
PS The posters with Oles face on them seem to be advertising a Buddhist event and not the anti-muslim rally. They are posted next to the posters for the rally.

Warsaw protest.jpg (40.1 KiB) Viewed 2371 times

"My religion is not deceiving myself."Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Kelwin wrote:Did these guys just look like skinheads, or were they actually neo-nazis? That's quite a difference.

Excellent point! As I get older, I feel I look better with short hair. When I get older, I guess I will look like a skinhead or a monk--hopefully I won't get called a neo-nazi if I continue working out at the gym.

I've been going to Lama Ole's courses since 1997 and never once saw a so-called "body-gaurd", or a feeling of security. It's a totally absurd comment. It's definitely the clean haircut/ strong body combination that has this guy confused. Doing prostrations will make you strong:)

As far as Lama Ole's comments about Islam, he states that these are his theories based on years of traveling around the world, and not Buddhist teachings. I personally don't agree with him regarding world politics, but it doesn't get in the way of my practice or relationship with him. For that matter I also don't ask him whether or not I should buy a house, fall in love, have a child, etc etc. I don't ask him how to invest in money either.

What I appreciate about him is that all of his skeletons are out, nothing in the closet. I have never felt the least bit of pressure to agree with him on anything regarding worldly matters, yet he has guided me through my personal practice and I have a strong connection to many people in the DW community.

I"m glad to see most people in this thread are being level headed about the topic.

kirtu wrote:This seems to be an opinion piece ... the last paragraph is heart-rending - do Central Europeans not understand that Europe has had a Muslim presence for at least 520 years? Then the repetition of simplistic statements acting as rules by the 10 year old boy - heart rending .... it's exactly the prejudice that we fought against in Germany in the 80's and 90's ....

It hurts, doesn't it? The truth is Poland after 1989 is in a really bad shape - a living proof that more than twenty five years of sustained neo-con propaganda can easily transform a society into a conflicted mass of anxious, paranoid and deeply deluded individuals.

kirtu wrote:This has factual information but is primarily a discussion blog ... and DW and Ole are only mentioned in the discussion although Ole's face is on posters in a picture advertising the protest ....

There are anti-Islam posters there interspersed with DW adverts. It's not that they used Ole's face to rally people here - not exactly, at any rate.

kirtu wrote:Wojcik claims that radical Islam is afoot and that he was never a member of the Association of Karma Kagyu Buddhists and Rajkowska claims amongst other things that Vajrayana Buddhism is a splinter group. So the two opinion pieces are a food fight between two people.

However Vajrayana Buddhism is getting tarred in this as is DW and Ole. He must take responsibility and issue a clarification about the situation otherwise this will create problems for Buddhists in Europe and possibly worldwide and will damage Buddhist-Muslim relations.

There has been no clarification by Ole, even though Wojcik is attempting (very feebly, because while he rejected the ONR proposal, he did demonstrate together with MW) to distance DW from the extreme right; and I don't think there will be any clarification here - Nydahl's personal view of Islam is very well known, isn't it? If Islamification is his greatest fear, well, would he really want to reject such tactical alliances?

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
There has been no clarification by Ole, even though Wojcik is attempting (very feebly, because while he rejected the ONR proposal, he did demonstrate together with MW) to distance DW from the extreme right; and I don't think there will be any clarification here - Nydahl's personal view of Islam is very well known, isn't it?

DW esp. in Poland needs to distance itself from these harmful actions. Ole needs to be disciplined. His political views are his own business but unreformed hate speech is a show stopper. Anyone who can be seen as a Buddhist teacher has a much higher degree of responsibility for hie/her speech and actions and has to take action if they are misconstrued or used to justify inappropriate activities.

If Islamification is his greatest fear, well, would he really want to reject such tactical alliances?

"Islamification" shouldn't be his greatest fear at all. His obsessions wrt this are difficult to understand because they are clearly taken out of context. But Buddhist leaders should focus on supporting practice and enlightenment and not supporting defiled actions and thoughts and sowing division.

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

ONR is pretty notorious in Poland, and no major political party endorses these folks - as opposed to MW, which is the youth wing of LPR and a staunch and important ally of PiS, the biggest right-wing opposition party (that is, the biggest right-wing party except for PO, the more moderate right-wingers currently in power). If you ask me, the differences between MW and ONR are negligible, though. The same kind of scum.

I have attended about 7 talks by Lama Ole. Maybe he mentioned Islam briefly in 2 of the talks warning about its lack of tolerance--nothing so harsh and really not said with any anger. People make it sound like he's on a soapbox giving long angry speeches and getting actively involved in far right-wing politics. Islam is not a focal point of his dharma talks--just a digression when he tries to explain the modern world. Like many of his more serious DW students, I really wish he wouldn't do it; I think it may have something to do with his travels in India--seeing the ruins of Buddhist temples, statues, and universities destroyed by Muslim armies.

honestdboy wrote:I have attended about 7 talks by Lama Ole. Maybe he mentioned Islam briefly in 2 of the talks warning about its lack of tolerance--nothing so harsh and really not said with any anger. People make it sound like he's on a soapbox giving long angry speeches and getting actively involved in far right-wing politics. Islam is not a focal point of his dharma talks--just a digression when he tries to explain the modern world. Like many of his more serious DW students, I really wish he wouldn't do it; I think it may have something to do with his travels in India--seeing the ruins of Buddhist temples, statues, and universities destroyed by Muslim armies.

100% in agreement here.

As I read through these posts the one question I'm asking myself is, "do I really need to respond?" Either there are a few hot-headed people in the "room" that nobody is taking seriously or there really is a gross misunderstanding in the Buddhist community who Lama Ole is. It is so off the wall absurd and just dead wrong what is being said about my teacher here.... That skinheads are part of his security team - yeah right like Sinead O'Conner is a neo-nazi too. And then someone photographed a poster of his lecture tour on a wall next to an anti Islam rally? Come on now!

He's surrounded in an atmosphere of blessing and abundance. There is no security - no threats - no problems - No body gaurds. Nothing. I've seen him in courses in Germany with 5,000 people in the audience, Poland 2,000, Hungary 2,000, Spain 2,000, traveled the Trans-siberia express with him. It's always a very big happy Buddhist gathering.

His lectures are about Buddhism. Pick up The Jewel Ornament of Liberation and there you will find his subject matter. He also teaches Powha and Mahamudra courses, and courses on our great kagyu yogis and lineage holders. A huge number (thousands) of his students have completed the ngondro and are doing yidam practices on the 8th Karmapa.

It is often a question about worldly matters from a student that will prompt this a discussion about Islam. On the same token, he is not trying to attract people that only agree with him -"yes" people or followers. He has spoken publicly about his students having taken part in the political rallies mentioned and has stated very clearly that they do not represent Diamond Way in their actions.

Regarding his perspective on Islam. He traveled with his wife through the Middle East many times on his overland trips from Europe to India, Nepal and Tibet. In a nutshell, he sees a lot of people living in fear under theocratic Islamic states. Mind you, his message is not about Islam, but theocratic Islamic nations. The religious and political leaders of these countries keep their women down and do not allow freedom of religion, expression, speech etc etc. This is nothing the New York Times would disagree with.

A question for the DW students on this thread (honestdboy, Willy and any others). What direction do you see DW going in the future - especially after Ole is gone. I am sure now the Ole is getting on people are considering it. Does he have an appointed successor?

“Trump’s grand and vulgar self-absorption is inviting all of us to examine our own selfishness. His ignorance calls us to attend to our own blind spots. The fears that he stokes and the isolation he promotes goad us to be braver, more generous.” - James S. Gordon.

Knotty Veneer wrote:A question for the DW students on this thread (honestdboy, Willy and any others). What direction do you see DW going in the future - especially after Ole is gone. I am sure now the Ole is getting on people are considering it. Does he have an appointed successor?

I'm not sure. He mentioned in the past that he was planning for it, but haven't heard him speak that much in the last few years. What is for certain though, is that he never considered himself to be the lineage holder, but Karmapa. This has always been very important to him, that everyone belongs to Karmapa's lineage, and is aware of that. So I could see the travel teachers (Ole's more experienced students who travel around to teach the more basic levels of Buddhism) organizing the centers, and Karmapa growing more steadily into being the source of blessing.

As far as I know there is no single designated successor for his specific role, but it might not be necessary. I just really wish that it will keep going on in a good direction, making the essence of Varjayana available for future generations of modern Western people _/\_

'I will not take your feelings seriously, and neither will you' -Lama Lena

Knotty Veneer wrote:A question for the DW students on this thread (honestdboy, Willy and any others). What direction do you see DW going in the future - especially after Ole is gone. I am sure now the Ole is getting on people are considering it. Does he have an appointed successor?

I'm not sure. He mentioned in the past that he was planning for it, but haven't heard him speak that much in the last few years. What is for certain though, is that he never considered himself to be the lineage holder, but Karmapa. This has always been very important to him, that everyone belongs to Karmapa's lineage, and is aware of that. So I could see the travel teachers (Ole's more experienced students who travel around to teach the more basic levels of Buddhism) organizing the centers, and Karmapa growing more steadily into being the source of blessing.

As far as I know there is no single designated successor for his specific role, but it might not be necessary. I just really wish that it will keep going on in a good direction, making the essence of Varjayana available for future generations of modern Western people _/\_

Well said. Lama Ole is physically about 50 even though he's 70 years old in years. I've heard him say we'll all be his successors, but that makes everyone nervous. Kelwin has the right answer. As well as Karmapa, there are plenty of lineage holders - Shamar Rinpoche, Gyalturl Rinpoche, Sherab Gyaltsen Rinpoche and others.

I'm not sure if this will work (haven't tried to post pictures on here before), but I just posted pictures from a Phowa course in Colombia a few days ago. Lama Ole Nydahl is checking the results of the Meditation on Conscious Dying (tib. Phowa) he gave during the last days. Always smiling people, easy atmosphere - no body guards and neo-nazi's.

gregkavarnos wrote:It gives an interesting and well researched, though at times biased, analysis of the Diamond Way centres and of their founder/leader Ole Nydahl that I thought people might be interested in reading and discussing.http://www.globalbuddhism.org/10/schere ... #_ednref14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hi,

no wonder the text is "at times biased" - the author is a student of Ole Nydahl. I've tried to read the article but I'm allergic to the pseudo-objective style. Instead I googled the author. Burkhard Scherer has also written a book titled "Buddhismus - Alles, was man wissen muss" which translates as "Buddhism - everything you need to know":

no wonder the text is "at times biased" - the author is a student of Ole Nydahl. I've tried to read the article but I'm allergic to the pseudo-objective style. Instead I googled the author. Burkhard Scherer has also written a book titled "Buddhismus - Alles, was man wissen muss" which translates as "Buddhism - everything you need to know":

my translation: "Prof. Dr. Burkhard Scherer is a long-term Buddhist practitioner and student of the 17th Karmapa and of Lama Ole Nydahl."

Bye,

R&R

I think this is one of the inherent flaws in Religious Studies in general. Everyone comes to the subject with their own baggage. A physicist or chemist's work is objective, testable and verifiable. The very nature of religion is subjective and is subject to our own biases and there is no way around that. And I think especially in Vajrayana Buddhism where the student views their guru as a Buddha it is impossible to conduct unbiased research when you are a practitioner.

This paper is a perfect case-in-point, the main point the author makes is that Lama Ole is viewed by most outsiders with a "hermeneutics of suspicion" when it should be one of trust and that any of the supposed character flaws in Lama Ole are simply misinterpretations because he is following in the "crazy wisdom" tradition of the Karma Kagyu. If you are a follower of Nydahl fine, you can believe that, but there is simply nothing scientific or academic about that assessment, especially when the author is a student of Nydahl and given the Vajrayana guru-disciple relationship.

One should do nothing other than benefit sentient beings either directly or indirectly - Shantideva

And if it was written by a critic of DW does that mean it also would fail the test of objectivity?

See I think you are projecting your own character "flaws" and inability to approach the topic objectively onto the author. I believe that it is more than possible for an individual to be part of a group and yet maintain a critical and objective opinion of the group. Isn't that what we train for in Buddhism? Equanimity?

Pure objectivity is impossible (except for an individual with no sense of self) even in the scientific field. Sure, one can test the validity of the outcome of an experiment, but the mindset that lead to the experimentation (or funding driving the project) and the nature of the outcome are subjectively based (e.g. testing chemicals for use in chemical warfare) and thus influence the outcome.

I am not saying that your analysis of the article is invalid, but the basis for your analysis (the fact that the author is a DW practitioner) may be.

"My religion is not deceiving myself."Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Greg asked a few pages ago whether I was only here to wave my flag. Of course, he was right. (Well, waving mine back at him, to be precise.) Nevertheless there is a serious issue here.

ReasonAndRhyme commented that:

I've tried to read the article but I'm allergic to the pseudo-objective style.

Have you been reading my mind? Or do we have the seeds of a concensus here?

According to Wikipedia's entry about the Danish guy, Scherer:

regrets that Nydahl continues to be ignored by Tibet scholars and argues that prevailing negative criticism from a position of suspicion by sociologists and students of New Religious Movements should be counter-balanced by positive criticism from a position of trust by Tibet scholars.

It appears that Scherer therefore feels that Danish Guy is a primary source for information about Tibetan Buddhism – something of an inventive interpretation, I suggest. Why ever should a serious scholar want to study the words of Danish Guy to examine Tibetan Buddhism? Only a scholar of modern religious movements would have reasons to study the Dane. As Scherer himself is said to note:

... the little recent academic attention Nydahl has drawn so far come, interestingly, from European sociologists of religions who specialize in New Religious Movements and Contemporary Religions/Buddhism(s).

Of course. His further assertion that:

The neglect of Modern Tibetan Buddhist movements by classically trained Tibetologists is deplorable;

is arrant nonsense. Classicaly trained Tibetologists are best employed using their admirable talents to study Tibetan culture and religion.
This whole argumentation seems to me like an attempt to give the Danish One a promotion to the holy circle by implying that he is the same kind of person as, for instance the Karmapa or any other fully trained Tibetan lama. No, he has more in common with people like Theos Bernard or Ernst Hoffman (hey, I liked a couple of his books, still have two of them even after all these years).

And as R&R also hints, the very idea of "Everything you need to know about Buddhism" in 200 really rather small pages borders on a joke. To be fair, the publisher may be responsible for the book's title. At a quick glance the contents appear reasonably clear and informed - aside, that is, from the inevitable superficiality. (Mahayana in about 50 small pages. Mahamudra seems to get about two, the same as "Sexual Yoga and Energy Work." But who knows? Re-marketed, it might make a tolerable shorter rival to "Buddhism for Dummies" (don't knock it).

The article is a good example of pseudoscholarship in my humblest of humble opinions.

Lingpupa wrote:Greg asked a few pages ago whether I was only here to wave my flag. Of course, he was right. (Well, waving mine back at him, to be precise.) Nevertheless there is a serious issue here.

If I remember correctly I am waving the flag of objective analysis, not a bad flag to wave, what say you?
Like I said before (when the dialogue was derailed) I stand nothing to gain from either the support or criticism of Ole Nydahl and DW. Absolutley nothing at all. I'm just interested in seeing an intelligent dialogue analysing a important and unfolding phenomenon in the sphere of Dharma.

"My religion is not deceiving myself."Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde