Well hello again readers! It’s been awhile, for which I have to apologize – holidays, family, and other commitments have kept me away from the blog. There will be a return to the history segments soon, but for now, it’s time for a little old fashioned speculation. As I’ve been playing World of Warcraft, and as I’ve been reading about the impending Cataclysm, I started picking up on a few clues here and there on possible future directions for Warcraft lore that may have some stunning implications. While the folks over at Blizzard back none of this, I thought it’d be fun to take you all down the oft times confusing, but terribly fun road of lore speculation. So let’s take a break from the history, sit back, put on our tinfoil hats and take a really good look at the events presented so far in the game, and where they may lead.

The Old Gods

One of the largest players to date in World of Warcraft lore are these mysterious figures called the Old Gods. If you are a raider, chances are you’ve met and killed a couple of them in your raiding lifetime – C’thun, down in Ahn’Qiraj, and Yogg Saron, up north in Ulduar. But where did these Old Gods come from, and why are they here?

The Old Gods are, simply put, pure evil. These are malevolent deities that were said to have ruled Azeroth in the past – long before the Well of Eternity, long before the introduction of the night elves. While the nature of the Old Gods is well known, what is sketchy at best is the timeline in which these events took place. Some Warcraft lore suggests that the Old Gods were present when Azeroth was created, and their activities were responsible for drawing the Titans to the planet in the first place. Other lore, generated from the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, suggests that the Titans created the world, took off for parts unknown, and were called back because the alarms were being raised due to these nasty critters. As the lore currently presented in Northrend is the most current, this is the timeline I am going with.

The Titans are creatures of order and organization, of creation. The Old Gods are the exact opposite, creatures that seek nothing more to bring about chaos and destruction. In Wrath of the Lich King, it is revealed that the ‘Curse of the Flesh’, a disease that was created specifically to break down and assimilate the Titan’s creations, was placed upon Azeroth’s creations by the Old Gods. News of the Curse soon reached the Titans, and they returned to find the little world of order and perfection that they’d created in absolute chaos. The Old Gods ran rampant, their lieutenants, the Elemental Lords, assisting them in razing the world. A great war ensued, and the Titans were triumphant – but there was a catch. The Titans discovered that the Old Gods and the Curse that they placed on the planet could not be removed without destroying Azeroth itself.

Making planets is pretty hard work, and it’d be a shame to throw all that hard work away. So the Old Gods were imprisoned, deep below the earth where nobody could get to them, and left to rot for eternity. The Titans then put in a few safety measures and precautions, and created The Forge of Wills to re-create the seed races that had been weakened by the Curse.

Unfortunately for Azeroth, Old Gods are not so easily taken care of, and this has resulted in a small series of events that is, if my theories and speculations are correct, about to avalanche into something a heck of a lot messier than races up and turning fleshy.

Depending on the source, there are three, four, or five Old Gods imprisoned. Other sources imply that there were more, but for now…well, let’s just look at what I’ve dug up.

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Tirisfal Glades

While there is nothing said via quests regarding this location, it is referenced in a book that does exist in game, The Founding of Quel’Thalas . In the book, the following is stated:
“Forging inland, the high elves founded a settlement within the tranquil Tirisfal Glades. After a few years, many of them began to go mad. It was theorized that something evil slept beneath that particular part of the world, but the rumors were never proven to be true. The high elves packed up their encampment and moved northward towards another land rich with ley energies.”

While it is not directly stated, it can be assumed that the evil that slept beneath the earth was one of the Old Gods. Interestingly, if one pieces together the Azeroth map into one continent as it was pre-Sundering, this location is just under or near the original location of the Well of Eternity. Given the fact that Azshara made a pact with an Old God when she and her city were submerged, a pact that introduced the naga as a race, it can be assumed that this Old God is the one that yammered at Azshara and made her a not so little mermaid.

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The Master’s Glaive – Darkshore

This is a location that has either been overlooked or ignored by the majority of the Warcraft player base. Located in Darkshore, it’s a little out of the way for anyone that isn’t leveling a night elf or a draenei – most horde players wouldn’t even see this location unless they were out getting the Explorer achievement. In the Master’s Glaive, there is a monument, or the remains of a battle – a giant glaive impales the skull of some strange creature with tentacles. The night elves consider it a sacred area, and believe that a Titan killed an Old God at this location, as the glaive is too large for anything other than a Titan to wield.

In game, the area is now under the control of the Twilight’s Hammer – a cult often known for consorting with Old Gods. They believe the statue, or skull, or monument, or whatever it is, is actually the corpse of an Old God. Whether or not this is true has yet to be addressed, but the evidence is stacked to suggest that there was an Old God here, but it met its end at the end of a Titan weapon.

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Ahn’Qiraj – Silithus

This is the moment that people really started noticing the Old Gods. Rather than being some mysterious, unknown force that was vaguely referenced by lore, suddenly players found themselves confronted with direct and unequivocal evidence that the Old Gods existed. The War of the Shifting Sands was incorporated into existing Warcraft lore, and involved the night elves extensively – notably one of their leaders, Arch Druid Fandral Staghelm who had up until that point no particular reason for being nasty to players other than being a big old jerk. It was revealed that Staghelm sought the help of the Bronze Dragonflight to solve the problems presented by the Old God C’thun, and while these efforts worked for a short time, C’thun had risen again to cultivate chaos and destruction.

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Ulduar – Northrend

Are you seeing a pattern on that map yet? This was the point where the dots started connecting for me. Ulduar, high up in Northrend was the host and home to yet another Old God – Yogg Saron, imprisoned in the Titan stronghold of Ulduar. Players once again got to fight and defeat one of these creations.

These map points were proving terribly interesting to me, and I found it necessary to plug in that last and final point.

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Duskwood?

While Hakkar, the vengeful boss at the end of the Zul’Gurub instance is often called an old god, he is not an Old God. More powerful than an elemental lord, but slightly less than a god, Hakkar was worshipped by the trolls. So why is there a mark on the map here?

Karazhan, the mystical home of Medivh is often referenced as having been constructed on some powerful ley lines that attribute to the strong magical energy that surrounds the tower. It is possible that parts of the peculiar properties of Karazhan are because of an Old God as yet discovered. There is, however, something else that makes a lot more sense.

Duskwood, that creepy zone that low level Alliance love and fear, has a rich history of people going mad. The Scythe of Elune is mentioned, the Black Riders of Deadwind Pass, worgen and undead, and humans that have completely lost their minds. But the most peculiar and as yet unexplained part of Duskwood is the portion nestled directly in the center of the otherwise unsettling zone – The Twilight Grove. This crater is supposedly the remains of a volcano, and carries an oddly night elf feel to it. The logical leap to make is that Duskwood itself, the corruption, the darkness, and everything that has befallen the area is the direct result of an Old God buried somewhere below.

Why did I make that fifth connection? Take a closer look at the map. I have clumsily connected the dots, line tool style:

Click for a larger image.

Oh Blizzard. You are fond of putting pentagrams in strange places , but this is far too interesting to be coincidental. Notice that the center of my messy pentagram is none other that the Maelstrom, that nasty swirling bit of chaos and tidal fury that all ships make a strong point to avoid when sailing about Azeroth.

Is your mind boggled yet? It gets better. So much better. Read on, and prepare to start making cardboard ‘The End Is Near’ signs to wave about your nearest street corner.

There you have it. Five Old Gods, five locations that can either be verified, or assumed with little stretching involved. Five Old Gods, five points on a pentagram, say you know what else do we have that we can count five of?

Oh wait. Dragon Aspects.

Let that sink in for a moment.

Done? Here we go – a current look at the five Dragonflights and their status, as according to Warcraft Lore:

Neltharion and the Black Dragonflight

Neltharion, now known as Deathwing, was the Earth-Warder and leader of the Black Dragonflight. Empowered by the Titans with dominion over the earth, and the deep places of Azeroth. The deep dark places, coincidentally, that also housed the Old Gods. Neltharion was unfortunately driven to insanity by the voices of an Old God, causing him to create the Demon Soul. The night elves were able to capture the Demon Soul, but in the process Deathwing wrecked the Blue Dragonflight. This all took place during the War of Eternity – the War that caused the Sundering of Azeroth into the continents that exist today.

It is important to note that again, the location of the Tirisfal Old God could be, pre-Sundering, very close in location to the original Well of Eternity.

Malygos and the Blue Dragonflight

Malygos the Spellweaver is the Aspect of the Blue Dragonflight. Norgannon, the Titan in charge of magic and the keeper of lore, gave Malygos a portion of his power and placed him as the guardian of magic and hidden Arcanum. Malygos’s flight was devastated by Deathwing’s original attack, and as a result he lost a large portion of his sanity. Malygos regained his lucidity after Deathwing was defeated and the Demon Soul was destroyed at the end of the Second War.

However, while Malygos has begun to regain much of his sanity, it is revealed in Wrath of the Lich King that the Aspect has suddenly deemed the lesser races use of magic unacceptable. He worries that the reckless use of arcane magic may bring the Burning Legion to Azeroth in force again, which is why he’s hostile and killable in game – he’s declared war on all magic users, and wishes them destroyed.

This does make sense, but please note that the location of Yogg Saron, another Old God, is in Northrend.

Nozdormu and the Bronze Dragonflight

Nozdormu the Timeless was empowered by the Titans to watch over the flow of time to make sure that events occur normally, without interruption and as fated to pass. He was granted domain over the ever-spinning pathways of fate and destiny, and thus knew when events were gong to occur, and what was yet to come. However, his powers came with a price – Nozdormu was shown his own demise. It was a lesson, so that the Aspect would never think that his power so great and terrible that he had to answer to no other. Nozdormu is well aware of when and where he will die, as well as the events surrounding his death.

During the events of the Burning Crusade, is it revealed that Nozdormu is currently ‘away on a quest’, and his whereabouts are unknown. Leading in his are Anachronos, Soridormi, Andormu and Nozari, who keep watch over the Caverns of Time and wait for their leader’s return. It is also revealed in this expansion that the Bronze flight now has a unique problem – the Infinite Dragonflight has suddenly appeared, intent on altering the events of history past. The origins of these dragons are unknown, although there is a reference by an NPC named Indormi in the Caverns. She states, “Do you think the rumors about the Infinite Dragonflight are true? I’ve sensed it…the familiarity.”

In Wrath of the Lich King, Chromie, Ambassador of the Bronze Dragonflight, sends players on a quest to take a powerful artifact to the Bronze Dragonshrine in order to divine the true identity of the leader of the Infinite Dragonflight. Instead of the leader being revealed, players reveal Nozdormu himself. While this is shrugged off as merely being interesting by Chromie, it blatantly suggests that Nozdormu himself is responsible for the Infinite Dragonflight.

It is unknown at this time whether Norzdormu is the leader, and it is also unknown what, if anything, would lead him to this fate. Why would an Aspect suddenly go from carefully guarding the events and happenings of time, to trying to disrupt them? Why, he’d have to be…mad.

It is important to note that the primary lair of the Bronze Dragonflight is located in Tanaris. It is also important to note that the Bronze flight was heavily involved with the original imprisonment of C’thun in Silithus.

Ysera and the Green Dragonflight

Ysera the Dreamer, leader of the Green Dragonflight, was blessed with a portion of nature’s influence. Ysera fell into an eternal, never-ending trance bound to both the waking world, and the waking Dream of Creation. Ysera was empowered by the Titans to watch over the growing wilds of the world from her realm, the Emerald Dream. Ysera, being a guardian of nature, is also heavily tied into druidic lore – the Emerald Dream is something of a sanctuary for druids that walk the path of the earth. When the first World Tree was created and crowned Nordrassil, Ysera enchanted it so that it would be bound to the Emerald Dream.

Ysera has long been reported to simple reside in the Emerald Dream, however the Dream has been corrupted by something called, aptly, the Emerald Nightmare – a mobile area of corruption within the Emerald Dream. The origins of the Nightmare have not been made entirely clear. Some speculate that Hakkar the Soulflayer is responsible, due to events in the Sunken Temple. The Raven Lord Anzu has been mentioned in Burning Crusade – but the most logical explanation is this: the Nightmare, a nightmare, is the direct responsibility of the dreamer that dreams it up. Ysera is the being responsible for the Emerald Dream’s existence. For some reason, she’s having Nightmares. It’s almost like there’s a little voice telling her terrible things as she’s sleeping…

Please note that the Old God location mentioned as being a possibility in the Duskwood area has a gigantic crater in the middle of it. A crater that contains one of the large portals directly connected to the Emerald Dream.

Alexstraza and the Red Dragonflight

Alexstraza the Life-Binder, leader of the Red Dragonflight, was empowered by the Titans to be the guardian of all life in the World of Azeroth, and the Titans also appointed her as queen of all dragons. Alexstraza works to safeguard life on Azeroth, and has limitless compassion for all living things. Currently, she is the head of the Wyrmrest Accord in Northrend, the united efforts of the Dragonflights against Malygos’s somewhat odd crusade against the magic users of Azeroth.

Alexstraza and her Dragonflight have no real issues, problems, or strange things afoot with their flight – the most that happened to them was their imprisonment and enslavement by the orcs of Grim Batol and Blackrock Lair. Actually, the biggest challenge in Alexstraza’s life at the moment is simply trying to balance the efforts against Malygos with the efforts to help the other dragonflights and the efforts of the races of Azeroth against the Lich King. She has a lot of things going on, but there’s nothing there to suggest she’s anything but perfectly sane, compassionate and wise as always.

It is important to note that the final verified location of an Old God is one that is long dead. There’s nothing there but a corpse with a gigantic glaive stuck in it.

What Does This Mean For Azeroth?

After connecting all these bits of random information, bits that are nearly fully supported by existing Warcraft lore, there are a few startling and eye-opening speculations that can be made.

The Dragon Aspects were put in place after the Old God’s imprisonment to watch over all aspects of Azeroth. Neltharion was driven mad due to voices of Old Gods – it’s not surprising that he came to this fate, given that he was the Earth-Warder. However, these voices told him how to create the Demon Soul – an object that could be used against all living things on Azeroth, including his fellow Aspects.

The obvious conclusion is that the Old Gods hope that the destruction of the Aspects would once more set them free, but there’s a second, more devious part to this plan. It’s all well and good if the Aspects are dead, but that still leaves the Old Gods stuck under the earth. What if the Demon Soul was created not just to destroy the other Aspects that protected Azeroth, but as a deliberate catalyst for the Sundering, an event which ripped the world apart? What if the Sundering was just the first step to a plan to not only destroy the Aspects, but also free the Old Gods from their imprisonment?

Once the Sundering had been completed, Deathwing was far from done with his machinations, but he was thwarted, and the Demon Soul destroyed. Deathwing retreated to the Elemental plane, Deepholm, to recuperate. The Elemental Plane also happens to be the prison of the Elemental Lords, lieutenants of the Old Gods from that first huge war with the Titans so long ago. This plane is separate from Azeroth, and thusly the Old Gods would no longer be able to contact Deathwing as readily as they had when they first corrupted him so many years before.

What’s an Old God to do? Why…work on the other Aspects in the meantime, of course. C’thun sought out Nozdormu, corrupted him into thinking there was a way he could keep his power and avoid his own death by twisting future versions of the Bronze dragons into the Infinite Dragonflight and altering the timelines in such a way that his demise would be prevented. Nozdormu knew this was going to happen, which is why, during the War of the Ancients, he apologized for actions he would commit against him in the future, stating that not even he could change his ultimate fate.

Meanwhile, Deathwing’s chaos had rendered Malygos largely insane, but after the Demon Soul was destroyed, he slowly began to regain his sanity. This wouldn’t do, and so Yogg Saron whispered to the Aspect of the corrupt nature of the mortal races, and how they were not worthy to wield the magic that Malygos oversaw. He played on Malygos’s fears; feeding him nightmares of the Burning Legion and other horrifying events in order to recreate the madness that Deathwing had originally stricken Malygos with. This theory is backed up in part by the visions in the brain of Yogg Saron – while two of the events directly involve efforts in Northrend, the third is oddly, the creation of the Demon Soul – the object that the Old Gods convinced Neltharion to create.

Ysera…how DO you corrupt a dragon that spends most of her time asleep? Why that’s easy – whisper to her of nightmares, of horrors yet to be, of corrupted versions of mortal races, warped mirrors of reality, Corrupted Ones. Ysera is half awake, half asleep, and almost wouldn’t realize that anything had been said – easily confused and rarely lucid, it was easy enough to create the Nightmare, a swirling vortex of chaos itself, by simply mumbling to Ysera for long enough that she generated it herself. Mumbling via a portal that connects directly to the Emerald Dream.

And then we have Alexstraza. There were probably some awesome plans for Alexstraza, but the fifth Old God was dead, and so she escaped unscathed. There wasn’t an Old God available to address her and her flight – the four that remained alive were all busy with their respective flights.

With the announcement of Cataclysm and Deathwing’s reemergence, there are more conclusions to be made.

Deathwing was hiding out in the Elemental Plane – the abyssal plane to which the Elemental Lords were banished at the end of the war between the Old Gods and the Titans. The Elemental Lords don’t particularly care for one another, but they had a specific purpose in the early days of Azeroth – to serve the Old Gods and keep Azeroth in a perpetual state of chaos. While these lords are seemingly no longer under the Old God’s control, this may only be an assumption – and Deathwing, still faithful to the Old Gods that whispered to him so long ago, is looking to free the loyal lieutenants, and the Old Gods, once and for all.

Cataclysm isn’t just Deathwing out to get his revenge. Cataclysm and the events surrounding it are the very deliberate efforts of the remaining Old Gods to do what they’ve been waiting thousands upon thousands of years to do: Escape their prison, release their lieutenants, and once and for all annihilate all semblance of order on Azeroth. The Old Gods managed to sunder the earth once before – this time they have their tool, Deathwing, to do it again and perhaps nudge them that much closer to freedom.

And when the Old Gods’ freedom is gained at last, you can bet there will be another War on Azeroth. A War of Titanic proportions.

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107 Comments

Rathwirt said,

This is great!!! The titans knew that killing the old gods would be bad news for the mortal races, but does anybody currently on Azeroth knows that? I wonder what will happen if Alexstraza encourages Azerothians to defeat the rest of the old gods.

Drumlord said,

Justin said,

I was just musing over the Deathwing -> Old God connection myself the other night, figuring that Deathwing would only be the beginning of things to come, a tiny sliver of evil against the backdrop of the OG’s. But having read your theories above, everything certainly makes a lot more sense. It also lends credence to the original rumors of Thrall becoming a Guardian and Medivh making a return; Deathwing mentioned that he only truly feared one mortal, that person being Medivh. If that’s true, then any sort of guardian could not only assist us in stopping him once and for all, but would be a necessary ally against the Elemental Lords and Old Gods.

For that matter, what of Algalon? The story goes that we defeated him and saved the world from being remade. While that’s true, is it possible we also dismissed our only other allies before realizing the scale of the threat? If we fail to stop the old gods (entirely possible, seeing as how the Titans alone couldn’t stop them, and we need a “loss” at some point after ROFLstomping through three expansions), the Titans may not arrive in time to assist us in stopping the end of the world, resulting in the planet being remade; also very bad.

And take a look at the looming conflict between the Horde and Alliance? The Old Gods want war, chaos, destruction…who is to say our own leaders haven’t been taken advantage of? That the Old Gods haven’t instigated things further between the two factions in order to weaken their overall strength, and further ensure their victory?

Everything points to the Old Gods and Titans. That’s where all the paths end. It’ll be interesting to see how or if we can convince the Titans to aid us before the Old Gods break free.

Justin said,

First, a correction: we ROFLStomped through vanilla and two expansions, not three.

Second, the more I think on it, the more it makes sense that the old gods may have corrupted key figures in our respective factions. Think about the proximity of the Undercity to the old Tirisfall encampent of the Blood Elves; it’s entirely possible the Old God there could have reached out to Verimathas and Putress, convincing them to turn against Sylvanas in the name of the Burning Legion. And assuming C’Thuns reach all the way to Tanaris to corrupt Norzdormu, it’s entirely possible he could’ve reached to Mulgore and corrupted what is now known as the Grimtotems, and with the Thousand Needles getting a revamp in Cataclysm, complete with rumored Grimtotem Dungeon or Raid, it seems all the more likely.

Kurmudgeon said,

If the fourth expansion is about the Emerald Dream, it may be possible that the events proposed here will carry themselves out over multiple expansions. Perhaps this is another reason that the Cataclysm level cap is 85 and not 90.

Also, if the Old God’s plans succeed to a point, will the Titans return? Could that be something we end up seeing play out in Uldum and Grim Batol?

Shade said,

Well here’s the thing – the Nightmare didn’t come about until fairly recently in the timeline. However, the Old Gods were already there. They’ve been there since shortly after the creation of Azeroth. So my theory is that the Old Gods are directly responsible for -creating- the Emerald Nightmare to screw with Ysera.

So yes, the portal could be because of the Emerald Nightmare, but the Nightmare is because of the Old Gods.

It all goes backwards. That last point is kind of a bone of contention with me anyway – I’m not QUITE satisfied with it, but I am guessing it -has- to be somewhere in that southern area.

Psylo said,

You also have to consider the other Emerald Portals in the Hinterlands, Ashenvale, and Feralas which are points that kind of fall on a ring around the five point. It may also be that the fifth (dead one) could possibly be the one haunting Ysera, that the Emerald Nightmare IS an old god rather than just a creation of Ysera’s, but this is merely speculation and would leave one unaccounted for. There is mild contention that worgen are actually creatures of nightmare with a direct in-game source saying they fight “Lords of the Emerald Flame” which would further cement a ring of influence encircling the five points. Also consider Alexstrasza unscathed by the old god influences? She has alreadly willingly slain her own brother, she even knows something looms on the horizon and “Magic is now without its guardian” which leads me to believe the Aspects may have been created to steal/use the powers of the old gods, and as the Aspects die, the powers revert. But like I said, mere speculation without further reinforcement or proof.

Some of the theories you have shared are ones I have had as well but you explanation is beyond eloquent. I SO hope you are right and Blizzard actually goes down this path.

When they sent Deathwing to Outland and then we saw nothing of him for that entire expansion I began to lose hope, then the Lich King expansion came and rumors that Deathwing was back on Azeroth began to circulate. My hopes rose once again.

Blizz Con and its announcement had me leaping for joy. So wonderful to see this lore potentially coming full circle.

Hex said,

My question is this though, are Yogg and C’thun actually dead though. The lore is confusing on this point, did we kill them, or just a small part of them. I know one of the comics deals with C’thun trying to be brought back, but whats the final verdict. If they are dead, what does this mean for their plans, I realize Malygos is dead, so even if Yogg is gone, mission complete, and I suppose the same could be said of C’thun/Nozdormu as well.

Nekofanatic said,

I think the past encounter with the mind of an Old God is why the blood elves (high elves at the time) are so easy to lean towards crazy. Only the fact they left the area and then encountered the humans who eventually wielded the Light, which I believe to be something like the faith-based representation of the Titans (even if people don’t realize it), and now the fact they are working directly with the Naa’ru kept them from becoming just like the Naga.

I still think the humans were basically the last race the Titans placed on the planet before they left, and that’s why both they and the dwarves were the first races to use the Light. Though they were the Vyrgul (or whatever those big guy’s REAL race name is since they’ve used like 5 different ones) at the time, thus the vision parts about the Titans have left them. The Titans made them flesh so they couldn’t be affected, and thus corrupted, by the Old Gods. Didn’t quite work that way since the “giants” lived in Northrend, right near Yogg’Saron, he WAS able to affect them, “weakening” them with the curse that caused them to give birth to the modern day humans, a race he probably figured would be easier to twist to his will, since the worst he had been able to do to the Vyrgul was the curse upon them.

Of course, all of that is just my own theories based on the same information as the OP.

Nekofanatic said,

Oh, and lets not forget that Northrend is where the original Lich King touched down on Azeroth back before WC3, AND where Arthas gained Frostmourne (or it gained him, depending on how you want to look at it). Also his fortress is right on top of an area that has those ugly tentacled minions of Yogg’Saron, so I doubt he’s escaped that direct influence the whole time he’s been there.

Zin said,

although, perhaps we are doing exactly what the old gods want. I mean we know that the titans had the ability to kill old gods, as per the masters glaive, so why kill only one but imprison the others? And the pentagram, reminds me an awful lot like a summoning portal don’tcha think? It’s been alluded to that killing old gods might be bad. What if theres a connection between the old gods and the well of eternity? as stated in this article old gods might have a preference to root down near high energy ley lines. But ive seen movies where the devil or some demon had a hand in murders/sacrifices/bad things happening in a geological pentagram (go watch “idle hands” for the best example, and yes the one with seth green in it lul) with all hell breaking loose through the center of it being the intended result. And I find it odd that we’ve dispatched the old gods with so much reletive ease, I mean seriously we killed the god of freaking death! They are ,to my knowledge, beings made up entirely of everything chaotic, horrible, and evil in the universe, and from a metaphysical standpoint things like that don’t just go away after u beat them with shiny, pointy things. No they are letting themselves be ‘destroyed’ for a purpose. So in a way this means they’ve successfully corrupted alexstrassa, whithout any whispering, they’re just using her compassion for life against her and playing her like a fool. Also I believe the old gods to be connected to the world in some big way, I mean they where here before the titans and the lords of the ‘elements’ (the building blocks that make up and balance the world/universe) are their lackys so it’s quite possible that killing the old gods would affect the mealstrom in some way, possibly re-summoning the legion or maybe reverting azeroth back to its pre-titan state(that of pure chaos) Per chance they will be reborn fully manifest in the physical plane at maximum power 😮 it’s all so scary. ‘

My point is, these jerk old gods are stringing us along with achivements and phat lewtz to possibly further their own devious plots. Monsters!

p.s. feel free to call me out ( and insult me) on anything i got blatently wrong or for my horrible spelling. 😛

Zin said,

omg i just realized how horrbly organized that post is 😦 i sincerly apologize for defacing your wonderful blog with that horribly written post. My english professor would puch me in the face if he read that D:

Shade said,

Here’s the thing – the Old Gods placed the Curse of Flesh on the creatures of Azeroth that the Titans created – the seed races. The vrykul were one of those seed races, and the Curse affected them – making them weak pink and squishy, and…well, human!

When the Curse went off, the Titans were notified, and they came back to find these Old Gods running around wreaking havoc – that’s when the War started, the war between the Titans and the Old Gods.

The Titans WOULD have destroyed those Old Gods – but they couldn’t, because the Old Gods and their Curse of Flesh were by then so integrated into Azeroth’s being that if they destroyed the Old Gods, they’d be destroying Azeroth too. That’s why they locked them away.

I am guessing that the Old God in the Master’s Glaive was killed, and THAT was the moment the Titans realized they couldn’t kill the others – because if they did so they’d be wrecking the planet. That’s why none of the rest were destroyed.

What will be interesting to see is how the denizens of Azeroth, both NPC and player, deal with the remaining Old Gods that are NOT dead. They can’t be killed – if we kill the rest of them, we are essentially killing ourselves.

That’s what makes this so fascinating – we are rapidly approaching a point where if we destroy things, we’re only going to be bringing about our own deaths. That’s what I’m interested in seeing Blizzard handle – how exactly that’s going to work.

Psylo said,

“if we kill the rest of them, we are essentially killing ourselves” is an interesting point to make which may actually be currently happening in-game, the wildlife of Elywnn forest are diseased and dying, this has been linked to humans getting the hunter class.

Wor said,

What i would like to know is in what way are the old gods connected to the well being of azeroth?

Surely the titans would have tried to sever this connection? Wouldn’t they?

Sorta reminds me of parasites, these old gods, the bad kind. (The if removed,host dies kind)

And it seems odd that the leader of the pantheon, Aman’Thul, was able to give Nozdormu power over time itself but still not forsee this massive error in his ‘plans’ for azeroth. The titans build planets that last forever, and yet it seems that they can’t build a prison to last.

One a side note, there is balance in all things, this i know, so maybe the old gods are the yin to the titans yang. The titans are all about order, the old gods live and breath chaos. The titans create and the old gods destroy. Think about it, the pantheon was made up of 5 titans, and to our knowledge there are 5 old gods. Coincidence? I think not. It may be that the old gods are polar opposites of the titans, become manifest through Azeroth’s most unique trait… The Well of Eternity,seemingly the source of nearly all of Azeroth’s troubles (back door for Sargeras, source of magic, magic causing portals, portals always having bad things come out etc,etc) may be the source of this particular woe as well. If the old gods came about ‘after’ the titans created Azeroth the Well of Eternity may be the how as to their existence. The gist is that the titans have never encountered old gods before, odd considering that they’ve been responsible for a great many ‘worlds’ such as Azeroth, and it is know that Sargeras was drawn to just Azeroth out of all those worlds for one thing…the Well of Eternity and it’s unfathomable energies, making it likely that Azeroth may be the only world with such energy and thus the first. That also may explain why the titans goofed up with the whole masters glaive thing, they didn’t know what they were doing. Of all the titans worlds Azeroth is the variable in that it has(or had) that well of power.

Psylo said,

Shade said,

They aren’t just mages anymore. The Council was reformed in the Warcraft comics, and now consists of all magic using classes, because the mages have felt a weakening in their powers due to Malygos’s demise.

It’s interesting, Malygos dies, magic weakens…what happens if we have to kill the others?

Psylo said,

My mind is just spinning, I’ve posted a couple replies to other comments, I’m aware of the current status of the council, consider the burning legion’s part in the corruption of Medivh and Aegwynn back before the horde came across, it has been inferred Yogg-Saron may have slight abilities to glimspe the future, possibly due to Nozdormu’s corruption, and a good bit of knowledge, ancient and recent. May it be possible that the old gods manipulated key figures in lore to bring the horde to azeroth?

Shade said,

That’s the part that’s really, really ingenious of the Old Gods. Neltharion controlled the earth, he was the Earth Warder. If killing Malygos meant that magic for mages was weakened, that the arcane itself was weakened, then what happens when we kill the Warden of the Earth?

The earth is weakened. If the earth is weakened, it would be that much easier for the Old Gods to get OUT.

They may have known this – and they may have deliberately chosen Neltharion not for his proximity, but for what he reigned over – they set him up to eventually fall, so that they could make their escape.

Kostamojen said,

If Shade’s line of thinking is correct, and assuming we kill Neltharion (Deathwing) at the end of Cataclysm, the following expansion could see some serious Old God activity. Imagine killing Deathwing only to realize we’ve released any remaining Old Gods from their underground prisons…

Ovid said,

I agree that this article is very well thought out, and highly entertaining. What I hope to bring to the table is only a slightly different take on a couple points.

The Emerald Dream is indeed the realm of creation…I do not believe we are meant to think the Titans literally stood, in their true form, upon the planet Azeroth and fought Old Gods with giant swords. The Titans are too massive to exist in so limited a plane, so they travel the “twisting nether” or whatever name we can come up with for it, and craft worlds through a gateway that we, on Azeroth, know as the Emerald Dream.

What if we view the true Old Gods as the first lingering doubts imbued into the Dream by a Titan losing his own faith in what they were creating? Or, if that is too far out there, what if the Dream was just a catalyst for fostering not only life and creation, but the fear and hatred that seems to plague all sentient beings? Perhaps the Old Gods were not as we see them now, but were truly as integrated into the “matrix” of our existing world because they were free to roam the dream as whispers, malevolent thoughts.

The Tians may have returned and found the curse of the flesh as the fitting punishment for the madness that spread throughout their ordered world. Could it be that the imprisonment from which the Old Gods seek release, is not under the land measses around Azeroth, but from the Titan version of the curse of the flesh, which binds the range of their madness to small areas of Azeroth?

What if we come to realize that we are not killing Old Gods; we are releasing them? We have now freed two Old Gods from their imprisonment, and I suspect we will free more before we realize how easily we have all been manipulated.

Ovid said,

Since I wanted to make sure the post wouldn’t go on too long, I did leave something out, but wanted to add it since I want to discuss one of my favorite areas in all of Azeroth; the Master’s Glaive.

I have never believe the skull partially buried in the ground with a massive glaive deeply embedded therein was that of an Old God. I imagine the war between Titans and Old Gods raging simultaneously in the Dream and on the mortal plane through avatars. We know the Titans use avatars, at the very least, we know Sargeras does…I picture the skull belonging to an avatar created by the Old Gods to defend their hold on the mortal realm.

Typhoon-AN said,

I read somewhere (I will try and find the source, and pop back to update this post) that the Emerald Dream is the “blue-print” to the world of Azeroth. Basically, if everything went wrong in the world, the Emerald dream was lack a system restore point (sorry for the poor analagy….) so the world could be “reset” to the last known stable point?

If that’s the case, then an Old God corrupting the Emerald dream makes sense as this back up would be lost meaning the Titans / Aspects would have no way of undoing all their evil work…. The plot thickens….

Nekofanatic said,

Have to consider that the Silithid might not be native to Azeroth either, given the fact that Harbinger Skyriss was in one of the holding cells in the Arcatraz. Why would the Draenei have any reason to have him there BEFORE they came to Azeroth? (I assume the gnome ended up there of his own silly experiments rather than being placed in there, since he’s obviously not evil)

The Silithid have been worshipping the Old Gods for a very long time, and we still don’t know about their true origins.

Edge said,

I am wondering if we will get to continue the disk quests once the world is once again torn apart. The end of the disk quests said that they needed to find the location of the rest of the disk in Azeroth including the key to Uldum. It seems like Cataclysm, with the quaking and the devastation to the earth, would be a perfect time to find the rest of these keys. Archeology anyone?

Kurmudgeon said,

Perhaps finding the key/disk will be the only way to get into Uldum, and there could a small quest chain, or a continuation of the old one, through other new areas that lead to finding the key (with Archeology) to unlock the gate for individuals only. This seems like a good application of terrain phasing to me as well, if the gates are only open to those who open them, and not level 45-50 players leveling in Tanaris.

Side note: Does anyone else see the likelihood that Paths of the Titans will highly involve questing in Uldum? According to http://www.wowhead.com/?guide=cataclysm&paths the paths will only begin once level 85 is hit, but if this ‘lost city’ is unlocked, would it not lead to a way to follow the titans’ paths?

Noctus [Moon Guard] said,

This is an awesome analysis… If I may add something to it. Your hypothesis about Duskwood might just have a lot more validity now that this comes to mind… The Scythe of Elune bears a striking resemblance to the Scepter of the Shifting Sands weapon (Actually, I think it’s the exact same model and skin). More likely than not, this is intentional.

dillene said,

Is there a way to determine the relative position of the Old Gods before the Sundering? Since they are now arranged in a convenient five-point pattern, it makes me wonder if they had a hand in reshaping the continents after the Well blew up, or “pulling” the continents into their new postions.

I am also reminded of the Cthulhu mythos: he will reappear when the stars are in the right alignment.

Shade said,

Imbrium said,

I’m not ENTIRELY sold on an Old God located under an Emerald Portal in Duskwood. There is, however, a blank area conveniently located south of Zul’Gurub’s world-map location. We have also seen the extent to which Old Gods can influence large areas. Silithid are seen all the way into Feralas, and oddly enough, just south of Caverns of Time. Yogg-Saron has a reach that goes all the way under Icecrown Citadel and into Grizzly Hills, not to mention whisperings as far as Howling Fjord. A location for an Old God just south of Zul’Gurub accounts for corruption of Hakkar, Duskwood, Karazhan, and possibly one more reason for Medivh to create the Dark Portal in now-Blasted Lands (that and convenience in terms of distance to Kara). There is speculation that an Old God is located in Uldum, but it seems odd to put two powerful beings so close to each other; C’thun is a hop, skip, and jump away.

A few more ramblings: An Old God under Tirisfal could have influenced Arugal to bring Worgen to the Eastern Kingdoms. The Titans created all of Azeroth, so where in the world did the Old Gods come from? It is very plausible that Sargeras created them either directly or subconsciously, accounting for their chaotic nature. It could also account for a master plan. If the pentagram holds up in-game, I see a certain Maestrom becoming a portal for a certain villain to re-enter Azeroth in a final Expansion way into the future.
There are alot of possibilities with a game as rich in lore as WoW, and that’s what makes this so much fun. We can sit here and try to figure out where the story is headed but frankly, in the end, we really have no idea…

Jeff Fincher said,

I’ve long assumed that the Emerald Nightmare is Ysera’s own dark side taking a manifestation and causing her to battle herself. Everything you’ve stated here makes sense.

However, there may be even more to the story.

After Metzen retconned the detail that the eredar corrupted Sargeras, he made a comment about having to reveal what really corrupted the Titan. He even went so far as to say “dare me to say it was the Old Gods” or something to that affect.

Now, if the Old Gods are creatures of chaos and madness, the opposite of order that the Titans seek, then they are, in fact, seeking the same goals as the Burning Legion under guidance of…Sargeras, the mad Titan.

Would it not make sense that the Old Gods drove Sargeras mad and set him on a course of chaos throughout the nether? Once they were imprisoned on Azeroth, they used Azshara to guide their greatest success to unleash them?

Sargeras then later inhabited the body of Medivh in the tower of Karazhan, perhaps with a link to an Old God in the vicinity.

I have to admit, I see it all heading in this direction as you’ve detailed in this post, though I’m not thrilled about it. I like mortals being involved, being responsible for evil and chaos in their own right and different threats being a result of different actions and plans rather than some cosmic being(s) pulling the puppets’ strings for millenia to their own grandiose far-reaching schemes.

Alas, I believe the story of Warcraft is completely, 100%, directed by the plotting of the Old Gods in every minute detail. Sargeras, the Sundering, the Burning Legion, Illidan, the Naga, Medivh, The Lich King, the Scourge, Deathwing…every bit of it is all the Old Gods with no independent villainy throughout 10,000 years of history. Ye gods, I SHALL wave my cardboard sign and shout “CONSPIRACY!” in the streets!

Eventually, the mortal heroes will be powerful enough to slay gods and Titans and I will equate the lore as having gone the same direction EverQuest did. What villain can stand against a raid of 25 God-Slayers?

seth said,

Or could it be that killing one of the old gods causes the polar opposite titan to go insane (another reason the titans can’t destroy them). Maybe when they killed the old god near darkshore it caused Sargeras to go insane. This would mean when we killed Yogg that another Titan would be going crazy…(unless we didn’t really kill him of course–and just freed him as a poster above mentioned).

Just a thought–feel free to tell me any inconsistencies in it (this is the first bit of real lore I’ve gotten into).

Andy said,

We can leave Sargeras out of the picture if I know my lore.. He was sent out to imprison demons from the twisting nether but after encountering and defeating the nathrezim he was sent to despair and concluded that the Titans vision of order in the universe was wrong. He began assembling demons and also gained his two commanders, Kil’jaeden and Archimonde. Their only objective was to destroy the whole universe.

I have my doubts about old gods being behind the Burning Legion. There are rather two big forces of evil who have slowly intertwined into a bizarre cooperation such as the Lich King and his use of Saronite. I’d say we have allready killed the big leaders of the Burning Legion and Sargeras is nowhere to be found (last to see him was Broxigar, brother of Saurfang and only mortal to ever have wounded Sargeras).

But if there is a connection between mortals turning crazy and summoning the burning legion (Medivh and Azhara both had their turns but Kel’Thuzad was dead so he doesnt count), aspects going mad, bugs coming from under ground and nagas who finnaly get their time in the spotlight in the next expansion then I wonder how far the old gods power can reach :O

PassingS said,

Great article Shade. Honestly, I think our next expansion will like be connected to Azeroth in this way as well.

I think you’ve sort fo skimmmed over Alexstrasa’s corruption though. As Psylo mentioned, she’s had to send mortals to kill her own brother. In Cata, whether she helps or not, we are likely to send Deathwing to the grave, which makes a second brother she’s “had to bury”.

In terms of Draconic years (the lifetime of the aspects) the injustices she sufffered at the hands of the Old Horde would have been but a moment ago. If the theory extends that the Old Gods had a hand in corrupting Medhiv to bring the Horde to Azeroth, is it a leap to assume that shed’d blame them for the injustice in part?

As it is shown that the Aspects clearly know about the Old Gods, even helping to continue the Titan’s work to keep them imprisioned, who’s to say that Alexstrasa won’t get pushed over the edge? IF it were a mortal, they would’ve retreated from the world at having to kill Malygos, but she’s stood by and helped mortals take down her other “archenemy” – the Undead.

The leap of logic with Nozdormu goes even further in my head – if the Titans were to be called back to the world, most likely “remaking” it, wouldn’t that be enough to hammer into him that he’d failed in his duty? The Aspects only exist because of a single purpose, namely to safeguard the world. Maybe with time, Nozdormu realised that the only way to stop that from happening was to go back and “fix” the past. The crux comes down to how would u “kill” him in game, as he can control the flow of time…personally, I can imagine an epic fight 😛

Once again, nice blog, and great comments from all the others posters 🙂

Chase said,

This is an awesome post! The connections you make are very cool…everything is tied up like a decorative ribbon.

Despite all of that, I guess my one thought is this…We’ve (as players) now killed some of the Old Gods, C’thun and Yogg, right? Perhaps Deathwing is programmed to fulfill a mission, or isn’t aware of this, or doesn’t care? Even more interesting whether Blizzard incorporates into the world we play the changes that WE make as players.

Rock Lobster said,

For the Tirisfal Glades idea, also note that in Cataclysm the HQ of Twilight’s Hammer is in a place called the Twilight Highlands (I think), which is RIGHT ABOVE Tirisfal Glade. Coincidence? I think not.

JDB said,

Awesome article. You have said alot of things i had thought of before and introduced even more stuff that makes alot of sense.

I actually love the idea of an old god being under duskwood and it makes alot of sense. Firstly its the biggest area dedicated to an emerald portal, while the other places are smaller duskwoods is huge. Plus this makes the connection to an old god corrupting the Emerald Dream make more sense.

I also loved the connection with the placements and the dragon flights. I do believe that deathwing was corrupted by the same old god that the Elven Queen was so that accounts for the old god in tristfall. Mally and yogg, Bronze and cthun, yesara(sp) and duskwood, and the red dragons and the “dead” old god (Ive heard rumors that he is only dead as long as the sword stays in his skull).

Either way that was an awesome read, Thankyou for that and keep them comming!

orcnoel said,

So, why discard hakkar as an old god so fast!? He is certainly weak in terms of game dificult, but could be at a very, very, tetraplegic and deseased state, most likely 100 times worst than c’thun or yogg.

Shade said,

He isn’t an Old God – he’s what’s known as a ‘Blood God’ to the trolls. Brann Bronzebeard believe he was the SON of an Old God, possibly an Old God altogether, but manner in which he operates suggests he’s just one of the many, many troll gods – there’s not enough rampant insanity and madness to suggest that he’s an Old God. Mostly, it’s that he just doesn’t fit the image of Old Gods that we’re been given in terms of either appearance or influence. The reach of the Old Gods generally extends much, much farther than their localized area, but Hakkar’s M.O. doesn’t seem to be ‘unleash chaos’ so much as ‘blood is nummy, I’d like more of it please.’

Cenarios said,

In attempt to add more evidence to this already substantiated batch of speculations, I came across a model of what is apparently a warp gate in wowmodelviewer. It looks suspiciously similar to the emerald dream portals. However, it is seems to be unique to Duskwood due to its file name “duskwoodwarpgate”. Perhaps this is too much of a jump but warp gate = titan facilities = another Old God prison as you suggest?

Miggo said,

There is just one thing I think is a bit un-clear to me. And that is the Ysera part, it seems very … well, far-fetched.
If ofcourse not that portal happends to be the portal directed directly to the heart of the dream…

Well with tirisfal glade, there is that fairly large space that is unmarked to the far west… You can’t get there, there has to be some kind of plan for it… just as the large unfilled space underneath silverpine forest will now home the worgen race for cataclysm. 🙂 Love this article!! WANT MORE!!

somrune said,

sounds great, awesome story
i only see 1 loophole in it:
Old Gods can’t die
well technically they can, but if only 1 would die, Azeroth itself would be destroyed and we wouldn’t want that

the loophole i see i just assumption though: the ‘corpse’ of the old god in the Master’s Glaive is just its physical form that’s dorment but can’t send his toughts into the world cause there’s a Glaive stuck in his brain
this would work with your story of the red flight not being affected by madness

C’thun and Yogg’sharon aren’t dead either, their physical form was destroyed, but their essence is still there deep in the earth, so we could see them reappear at a later point, or at least find prove they’re still around… waiting

mister six said,

While I agree The Curse of The Flesh was intended to make us softer targets, malleable, and chaotic it’s worth noting that the way the latter is achieved is by bestowing free will upon the seed races and their progeny. If we side with the Titans might we lose that attribute? Order isn’t without it’s own price….

Medb said,

Ok, good, y’all have already latched onto the concept that the cthulu-skull with the glaive stuck in its head is not dead. I want to add a couple details to that point:

The only active altar to a Titan on Azeroth, afaik, is… The Great Forge.

Dark Irons had something to do with that time the Red Dragonflight was enslaved. I recall hearing mention that the Dwarven sorcerers who summoned Ragnaros were actually trying to summon (release from prison) an Old God.

The winding caverns of Blackfathom Deep make a beeline for the Glaive. BFD contains plenty of both Twilight cultists and Dark Irons.

Ok, so all that hangs together nicely, and the Twilights are probably working to retrieve that glaive. But on other topics:

Early Troll civilisation was born into a world ruled by bugs. Which makes Silithids and those Northern bugs simply the races which were prominent before Trolls developed. Trolls are linked to Elune, who presides over the Moonwell (aka the Maelstrom). Trolls and Tauren are the only playable races native to Azeroth who were not Titan creations made to help shape and maintain the planet, but grew up natively – and my Tauren lore is a big donut hole so who knows how the cows happened. Related Earth mythology refers to a sacred race of cows who came to Earth from the Pleiades to help the world progress in a fortuitous manner, and later became human. *shrug* who knows. Dragons were just the most advanced race on the planet when the Titans left.

But about Elune’s Swimming Hole again – WoW encyclopedia calls it a sort of umbilicus from the cosmos, supplying Azeroth with the energy it uses in staying alive. The Elven mages drew enough energy at a time that the Legion noticed the planet. etc etc could the Old Gods be generated by power fluxes in the umbilicus?

Nath’Rezim work indirectly, subverting anyone and everyone to their will. They can be called the true masters of the Legion. Who controls the Nath’Rezim? I would think that would be someone even more indirect. Like a bunch of evil manipulators who got caged and prevented from their habitual manipulations (directed at creating conflict / chaos purely to supply our masterminds with more energy). Like, say Old Gods. Why would they want to bust out if they can cause even worse damage by manipulating by enticing, oh say someone from Argus? into doing the dirty work.

Medb said,

Err. Not only does Azeroth boast Old Gods and a nice pretty umbilicus right in its center, it also is the only world out of countless worlds which has defeated the Burning Legion. Plus we continue to do so. Why? I think Azeroth remains uneaten because the Old Gods find their “prison” handy and feel like staying. Just sayin’.

And of course, bringing the Legion to their own doorstep accomplishes the Old Gods’ goal of restoring the (to them) pleasant and profitable state of chaos they used to keep Azeroth in for their own entertainment.

kage said,

I like the post, but I have a small point to bring up, notice uldum in tanaris, has a hole in its front gate, what if uldum was originally the prison of C’thun? Wouldn’t that have put him much closer to afflicting the bronze dragonflight, and if he was originally trapped in uldum what nasty surprises await inside, and how exactly did he manage to escape?

That would make a bit of sense, in that he would have the influence that Yogg had in Ulduar. However, that is assuming that the Old Gods are all imprisoned in Titan structures as well.

I did look a little bit into that, and Uldaman is fairly close to the suggested area Shade described. There very well may have been an Old God there, but it slithered off…. and entered the portal into the Emerald Dream, just a suggestion?

There is another problem though, there is no Titan structure in the Tirisfal Glades area, unless it was flooded during the first Sundering. This is the same with the “dead” Old God in Darkshore, which I still feel may have been an Old God. Unless it was flooded during the first Sundering, there is no Titan structure nearby to imprison it.

Laithina said,

Just one major point to note here: The origination of the emerald nightmare has been discovered, the primary machination behind it not yet, but it can be safely assumed. (I don’t want to spoil the story for those that haven’t read it)

Read the book STORMRAGE by Richard Knaak to find out more on Ysera and the Emerald Nightmare.

Hyaksindhil said,

Hedonal said,

The Emerald Dream is not being corrupted by Ysera, in the Stormrage book the Nightmare is cleansed and you learn who is responsible, then hints to a “darker force” making it possible. I personally suspect this to be the “slain” old god with the Glaive in its skull. Also, I highly doubt there will be an Emerald Dream expansion anytime soon, as said previously, the book concludes the Emerald Nightmare story line.

Duke Peekaboo said,

Maybe C’thun and Yoggy and maybe the other 3 (minus the dead one) may pop up in heroic modes of the raids but with a little twist and new questtrail – then again… Onyxia didn’t change…
Ohwell awesome thinking though! Hope blizzard follows this line of thoughts!
Though I must agree to the fact that the players are really becoming all powerful god slayers (having first killed major lore chars as Illidan, Kael’thas, … and last the Lich King) but meh… I like the the thinking behind it IF this is what Blizzard is intending, then it only proves once more that WoW is the best MMORPG there is 🙂

Duke Peekaboo said,

I found something interesting! – The Pentagram’s centre is the Maelstrom right? Now near the Maelstrom there are the broken isles (including Sargeras’ Tomb) Note that there was also an Old God there! You “kill” it with Maiev when she’s on the hunt for Illidan in the sunken ruins. The monster is called the Forgotten One but also spawns tentacles and looks the same as C’thun, or maybe it IS C’thun. Any thoughts?

LegionTheLordOfCHaos said,

Ok, i’am gonna put up some thoughts about the Old Gods/Titans, and this is interresting, read on and think about what i’ve written 🙂

One thing i’am having some thoughs about is how powerfull the Old Gods were if you compared them to the Titans, it seems to imply that they had their own ”citadels”, which seems to all have been shattered, this seems to imply to me that the Old Gods were only defeated by the Titans because they were defeated induvidually. This could also make sense in how they were defeated, the Old God’s Citadels seemed to have been relativetly far away from each others at the time, i’am not saying they were, but i guess that at the moment, based on lore, the Old Gods could also not been able to reach each others in time to aid the other Gods before they were defeated, remember they were 5 Gods, and it implies that they had their induvidual citadels, each one located at different locations in Azeroth, as stating in lore, which may not be accurate, i dunno, but also the continent were pretty large(before the sundering), so a big monster like an Old God could have been taking Some time to reach each other to help, and this would have allowed the Titans to defeat them one at the time, now think about it, would the Titans really have the power to defeat the Old Gods if the Old Gods were gathered, 5vs5?, considering how powerfull they were at the time? Ok i might be wrong, but to me, this seems to imply that 1v1 an Old God were more powerfull that a Titan, in lore the Phanteon fought the Old Gods, which consist of the(if i recall correctly)most powerfull Titans, now, if you notice how they mention they(the Phanteon) shattered the Old God’s Citadels(implies they had their own induvidual citadels, and spread out around the world, as i stated before), and think about it, the Titans merely defeated the Old God because they were defeated induvidually, it makes sense in a way, if they were this powerfull and gathered, the Titans would have a hell of trying to defeat them, even the Phanteon would have a hell trying, if they now actually could defeat them gathered, and thinking about this could speculate that the Old Gods were more powerfull than the Titans, at least 1 vs 1.

This also gives me some thoughs, now, if this is true in one way or another, it (could)mean that the Old Gods powers were equall if not superior, had they been gathered when the Titans Fought them, it seems that the Titans would have a much much more difficulty, if not impossible to defeat them, and if it took 5 of the most powerfull Titans to shatter their citadels and defeat them(specualtes now)induvidualy, it makes sense in how they were able to defeat the Old gods if they did defeat them induvidualy.

Now, if the Old Gods really were barely defeated induvidualy, it could also mean that the they are eternals, thinking about the fact that the phanteon, the group of the most powerfull Titans, may had not or COULDNT kill them, even if they wanted to, if they fought against hem induvidualy as i’am specualtes about, and barely defeated them, it could imply that they also Couldnt kill them if they are as powerfull as i’am speculating them to be. If they were as powerfull as i suspect they would have possibly eternal as well, and that is also a point in why they chained the gods far beneath the surface of the world if they couldnt kill them(they would not attempt anyway because of the Curse of Flesh created by the Gods). Now, if the ”Old God” in The Master’s Glaive really is an Old God, and supposly were ”killed”, why would the sword be left there? That also seems to imply that they couldnt kill the Old Gods, and combined with the Curse of Flesh they created, is sounds reasonable to say they only were able to weaken the Gods and chain them beneath the earth, had the Titans been more powerfull it could sound reasonable that they could have been powerfull enough to sewer the link, and removed the curse, and then they could have killed the gods, now, since they apperantly couldnt, and chained the gods instead, it could imply they didnt have the powers to do it, and that also could be speculated that the Titans were not as powerfull compared to the Old Gods to remove the curse, i dunno but it doesnt sound reasonable that if the Titans were more powerfull than the Old Gods, that their powers couldn’t match or be superior to the Gods, and able to remove the curse, ok i’am not stating anything but if they were more powerfull than the Gods, why couldnt they have been abe to sewer the link and removed the curse? Ok this is alot of stuff to assume, but its just a couple of thoughts i have.

Also if the Old Gods were more powerfull than the Titans, it could also make sense that the Titans couldnt remove the curse with relative easy without destroying the world, and that they couldnt kill the Old Gods either and chained them bellow the earth in their weaker states as opposed to attempt to kill them.

Now this is just speculations, i dont claim anything to be true, nor to i deny the possibilities that any part in this could be true, but i think that compared to each other, Titans VS Old Gods, with the lore available, and speculates, it sounds reasonable to me, i dunno about others but this feels like it makes sense in how powerfull they were at one time in past.

Ok i spelled alot of stuff wrong, and didnt use alot of grammer so it may look pretty bad, like massive walls of texts e.t.c, but by the time i discovered it, it would have been to much to reset and write from scratch, and i didnt have the time needed, so bare with me the bad spelling and the poor grammar, plz, i’am not having English as a native language either, so sorry

LegionTheLordOfCHaos said,

One reason the Old Gods could be eternal is that , because of their powers, they would probubly have archived or already is eternal due to the fact that most beings you can think of in Warcraft universe is already eternal, like Cenarious, the Dragon Aspects e.t.c, these beings for example are eternals and are by miles not as powerfull as the Old Gods, so if the Old Gods are more powerfull than the examples mentioned, then why wouldnt they to be eternals? Having the kind of heights of powers even Demigods, Dragon Aspects and similar/stronger beings have and being eternal seems strange that more powerfull beings like the Old Gods wouldnt be, thinking about how powerfull they are.

This ofcourse, isnt based but logicly, if power translates to immortality or status of eternal, then the Old Gods would easily be qualyfied as eternals 🙂

Medb said,

Oof
I remember something about most of the world being covered in water, with the original continent being a heap of dirt laboriously scraped off the sea floor by the giants which the Titans created for that purpose. That makes all points within the continents relatively close together.

I’ll take a stab at the rest of it.
The Titans traverse the universe, discovering countless worlds and terraforming them to Titan aesthetic standards.
The Titans stumble across the ancestors of what is now most of the Burning Legion. Unable to comprehend such a degree of evil, and consequently uncertain what to do about it, the Titans assign Sargeras to deal with it. The rest of the Titans proceed to forget the whole thing, blissfully discovering and modifying countless more worlds across the universe, unaware that the Legion is following them around devouring each newly-modified world behind the Titans’ back.
The Titans stumble across the world which they would make into Azeroth. It was a ball of chaos, all the elements at war across the entire surface, directed by the “incomprehensibly evil” Old Gods for their own amusement. The Old Gods also derived tasty power from the suffering caused by this elemental war. Unable to comprehend what the Old Gods are or why they would do such a thing, the Titans eventually decide to imprison the Old Gods in a dimension made by the Titans for that purpose (the prison was later retconned to “far below the surface of the world” or “deep in the earth”, etc; yes, chains are mentioned). The Titans then proceed to terraform the world to their aesthetic taste. They give it continents, various Earthen et al, and an umbilicus (the Well of Eternity) which is apparently unique to Azeroth. They then hand control of the whole ball of * to the most advanced native species present at that time, the dragons. The Titans then proceed across the universe, discovering and terraforming countless worlds, blissfully unaware of the Horde, then the Scourge, then Arthas et al. The Great Forge and possibly Medivh are the only potential lines of communication back to the Titans that I see.

Is it possible that the difference between Titans and Old Gods is not in level of power, but in manner of thinking?

Medb said,

martian said,

Maybe as with the titans the old gods on azeroth that we have had enounters with are only avatars with the real entities being far superior as with the differences between titan avitar and titan, if u get my drift…

Baconman said,

What if (and this is just a big “if”) there’s a sixth old god, and he’s like the most badass/evil of all old gods? This guy makes c’thun/yogg-saron look like holy paladins.

Think you can find any connections to it? I’m just getting the feeling blizz is planning on it. I know there isn’t really a sixth aspect, but this guy could be located at the center of the pentagram you showed.

Droit said,

I enjoyed reading this article and think it would be cool to see some of this, in one way or another, make it’s way into WoW.

Downside is the Master’s Glaive isn’t in an Old God. Very close though. A recent interview about the changes to Darkshore, and info from Beta that can be found on wowwiki reveals that the skull actually belongs to a Faceless One named Soggoth.

Kc said,

pentagrams are used to contain evil such as a Demon or some sort as long as that pentagram stands the evil inside cant escape. sorry im a newb to wow but maybe something is being contained in the maelstom that’s been keeping it whirling for the past 10,000 years. what could be contained in there is some big bad Old God such as there strongest among all the old gods. idk just a guess i heard somewhere that pentagrams are used to contain evil not being evil.

Deathwing is pretty evil, right? And he broke through the Maelstrom to leave Deepholm and cause the Cataclysm. The pentagram follows the locations where Old Gods are believed to be contained, so the idea that they contain evil works out.

Medb said,

So, at the creation of the world, each imprisoned Old God was placed at a point of this pentagram, as batteries to supply power to contain an evil which is at the center of the pentagram – bearing in mind, at that time, the center was the Well of Eternity, a sort of magical umbilicus which supplied power to all life on Kalimdor? Maybe the Titans figured these contained Old Gods would make convenient anchors to tie such an umbilicus to (I think I read somewhere that Kalimdor/Azeroth is unique in having a Well of Eternity/Maelstrom), to keep the Well stable. Either way, I still think the Old Gods are using the Nathrezim as pawns, not to free them, but to create conflict from which to glean energy. Which gives an interesting angle on Elune, magic, conflict, and peace.

Manon said,

So I have a question which may or may not have been answered but I’ve been reading for half an hour and my eyes are getting sore. If the Old Gods were already there when the Titans created Azeroth, where were they exactly? Or vice versa…if they weren’t there, how did they get there without the Titans knowing about it?

Medb said,

Back in 2007 (the last time I checked it), the “encyclopedia” on worldofwarcraft.com stated that the Old Gods were the masters of Azeroth when the Titans first discovered it. They lived on the energy produced by pitting the elements against each other. The Titans decided that needed fixing. I have no idea what retcons may have occurred since then.

Zelfarian said,

Risky said,

Interesting theories, but there are a few inconsistencies.
1. The corpse impaled by the Master’s Glaive has been confirmed to be a minion of the Old Gods, not an actual Old God.http://www.wowwiki.com/Soggoth_the_Slitherer

2. It is almost completely confirmed that there is an Old God dwelling directly beneath the Maelstrom, namely the same God that was behind the creation of the Nightmare:

“The Rift of Aln is a small area located deep within the Emerald Dream, from which the dreaded Nightmare appears to originate. It is supposedly connected to the Twisting Nether and the Great Dark Beyond.

Gazing into it, Malfurion Stormrage saw it as a bottomless chasm which radiated with primeval energies that even he dared not investigate. Indeed, the very rift itself seemed half-dreamed, for it had a surreal quality to its expanse and to the archdruid now and then seemed to ripple as if ready to fade or change.

-> Curiously, only then did Malfurion truly sense that the ancient evil, though it fought to keep its grip there, did so from somewhere deep in the depths of Azeroth’s own seas.[1] <-

The rift mentioned in the novel appears to be connected to the Rift in the Maelstrom. It may even be the same location, only as seen inside the Emerald Dream."

So, based on that, we can assume the Rift of Aln is the Dream's equivalent of the Maelstrom, and that it is the one area in which the Nightmare continues to exist. The Old God behind the Nightmare is also linked somehow to Azeroth's sea. With a minimal amount of connecting the lines, it becomes fairly clear that the Old God of Nightmare is within the Maelstrom.

This means that:
1. Alexstrasza's sanity has nothing to do with the lack of a 5th Old God, as he could still be very much alive. Which sucks, because that your theory was more interesting than Blizzard's actual lore.
2. There is no longer a pentagram when you connect the locations of the Old Gods, as there is no longer a dot on the Master's Glaive, and there is now one on the Maelstrom. Due to the maximum number of Old Gods being five, this makes a pentagram shape impossible.

Medb said,

The Maelstrom marks the center point of the pentagram. The old gods are imprisoned deep within the earth. The Well of Eternity is intimately tied with the binds which imprison the Old Gods, and the whole Sargeras thing destabilized the well – I bet it also destabilized those binds. What if all 5 old gods are imprisoned under (or in) the Maelstrom, and the points of interest on the surface are marked by servitors instead of actual gods?

If one is dead, or “dead”, that gives an opposite to Alexstrasza, etc. We would expect one to give madness, one to destabilize time, one to put a monkey wrench in magic, and one to blow stuff up.

[…] by covering the history of the story behind World of Warcraft. The image above was taken from a blog post I made back in January of this year, a post discussing possible links between the Old Gods, the […]

Parizo13 said,

I will admit I am a mere novice in the realm of World of Warcraft Lore, this post has been very enlightening and a great read. Kudos to all who posted. However I felt despite my fumbling with the vastness that is this MMORG’s epic tale, I needed to share my insight. As some may know the mythos that is the “Old Gods” of WoW is based largely upon the works of Author H.P. Lovecraft.
The antagonists (called “Elder Gods”, “Outer Gods” “Great Old Ones” etc) in most of his stories where beings from other dimensions/far reaches of space. Who’s immense power was far beyond mortal comprehension, merely being aware of their existence caused all but the most stalwart to go insane. WoW has followed their basic guideline quite well, even taking variations of their names
Cthulhu-C’thun
Yog-Sothoth-Yogg-Saron
I think that the story as proposed by this post is a very logical and exciting path for Blizzard to take, when I first started playing I was shocked to read the name C’thun and his story. Blizzard is brilliant for using this reservoir of lore that Lovecraft created over half a century ago.
So in light of this correlation between the two myths I have to say that at least in the Lovecraft mythos the “Old Gods” were timeless, they could sleep dormant for a millennium and then suddenly awake with drastic consequence for mankind. Lovecraft is famous for this quote
“That is not dead which can eternal lie And with strange aeons even death may die.”
So in my opinion I do not believe we have killed any of the Old Gods, whether or not it is even truly possible is to kill one is up for debate I think. Perhaps because of the events during Cataclysm we will be forced instead to renew the prisons that hold them in check, the same prisons Titans erected in the beginning (the Master’s Glaive may be something similar to what we could expect, although possibly only in the most rudimentary of terms seeing as how crude a solution it was)
This is all of course my own wild speculation, but no matter what the outcome I’m sure we are all in for one hell of a story 🙂
“Cthulhu fhtagn”

jim said,

Thre is one problem-
the Nightmare was the result of Xxavius or whatever his name is..the highborne goat who was loyal to Azshara, and Malfurion turned him into a tree-as a tree, the former goat was able to access the emerald dream, and corrupt it.
please update 🙂

Diabluss said,

If the old Gods are indeed trying to rid themselves of there watchers (The Dragon Aspects) then i suppose the reason they need this done is for their current goal, becoming unbound and free once again. From this point they can continue on their path to bring chaos to the wholes of the Universe and seeing as just about everyone has expressed interest in Azeroth due to its magics or other wise i suppose the old god will use the planet as their point of opperation or just a means to amplify themselves to ravage the cosmos. ANYWHO ideas as to why they would want said aspects dead to start with.

Malygros dead weakned mages, weakened magics holdings and containing them within there prisons

Deathwing wil weaken the physical binds that are keeping the old gods imprisoned, also the world its self will weaken making it easier for the old gods to bend it to there will.

Ysera With he death the old gods can corrupt the Emerald dream and then disable the ‘Reset’ ability the Titan’s have or simply make the Reset bring them out into the World once more. Further more perhaps Ysera helped to protect the minds of all beings. With her death many will become prey to old god whispering, perhaps the whispers can travel much further then a couple of zones. Also if the Emerald Dream is just a gate way for the Titans to interact with Azeroth then by taking control of the Dream then Titan interferance can be negatied to a large degree.

Nozdormu Tough one here bet lets have a go – Nozdormu controls the flow of time and seeing as the Old gods are trying to infest and control the Emerald Dream, then perhaps they seek to infest and distort time itself for the planet? Far fetched yes but hey its old gods who knows what they are capible of. A simple idea is seeing as Nozdormu is one of 5 aspects perhaps the Aspects have a pact that help bind all the old gods and if this is the case the best way to loosen the ties is to undo a knot and Nozdormu would be one of these annoyings knots. -side note apperently the old god have invaded Nozdormu realm and sent back something to the War of the Ancients, im pressed for time so i cant dive into details.

Alexstraza The Life Binder maybe her old god corruptor is dead, perhaps not. Maybe this old god is simply waiting for Alexstraza is deep into dispair. Just think about it She had to kill one of her brothers, Maly, and is pretty much gonna see or help kill another brother, Deathwing. Now lets say every expansin we kill an Old God and a Dragon. Soon enough Alextraza will see her Sister, ysera, and her last brother , Nozdormu fall. – side note- I just think Alextraza would be the last dragon to stand just because she loves the mortal races so much she would support and protect them that is until her heart finally breaks and an old god decides to push her into madness. Her death would maybe weaken the life force of all the creatures on Azeroth making it all the easier for the Old Gods to just sweep through Azeroths defense and control the planet. IF not that then perhaps Alextraza is the keeper of a terrible secret or holds a sort of key that helps keep the Old Gods in some sort of check. With her killed, by us as players if she ever does go mad, then All the dominos fall. The ones meet to keep them Imprisoned gone and then the Old Gods can move forward with there plan.

[…] It was, even at the time, a legendary post. Brilliant insight, keen observations, excellent deduction and prophetic visions all tying the lore and story of World of Warcraft together in ways that were nothing short of revelatory. […]

Wolfsheart said,

Wow, a year later, and this is an amazingly accurate post. What a great job tying together all the various lore and locations. As an avid WoW player from the beginning who knew all about the glaive in the skull, and who visited the caverns of time when it was closed and guarded by the undefeatable dragon, it was amazing to read back through the lore as written by someone who has obviously played just as much as I have 😉

Thanks again for all your effort back then, and I hope you’re still writing, cuz your blog just got another fan.

Ryukuu said,

i know this is a bit late, but now that caty is out and the elemental lords and deathwong are out, its time to use the new lore to onlt help the OP’s theories.

On the bit of alextraza and her lack of an old god to corrupt her, that is what deathwing is for. Deathwing is now the aspect of death, and will kill until it drives the lifebinder mad. I wouldnt put it past bilzz to make the final raid, in the process of killing deathwing, to make alextraza lose some of her sanity in the process.

on another note, in your rumor of an old god under undercity. In the new forsaken quests it has made apparent that Sylvanas is losing her sanity also. With the lich King dead, there is nothing to comsume her mind. So that leaves her vulnerable to curruption. Even some forsaken that once adored her now see her as losing her sanity ( theres a former apothocary in the plaguelands that is now part of the argent crusade who says this).

With now only being 4.1, i want to see how fendris Staghelm (corrupted by C’thun) will play in the Old god’s game. GAH this lore is so awesome

Thyrian said,

WIth N’zath coming up, we can only but assume where he will actually be placed… it is said that he is the cause of the dreams corruption, so can we say he will be near Duskwood as he predicted? Or would Vashjir be close enough to corrupt the dreamer? I feel it will be in the new zone over an old one personally, but blizzard has been known to do anything. All this N’zath talk only furthers your theories, Nozdormu brought to madness by C’thun, Alexstrazsa lucking out due to the old god in darkshores death, Malygos’ corruption from Yogg, and now blizz is mentioning that N’zath is directly related to Ysera’s nightmare. All this is doing for me is concluding that your well of eternity theory and Deathwing relation is plausable, because it is the only location left.

Thyrian said,

Also I had just realized, that through archeology, you can obtain the Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron, and it mentions sunken cities, the bottem of the ocean, fish knowing secrets, and so on. This points to my theory of Vashj’ir possibly being the correct location.. or, it can just be a bunch of Cthulhu parody mumbo jumbo, you decide. lol xD

Thyrian said,

One may also notice the recent influx of tenticles attacking the Stonetalon mountains, I am no master of that area’s lore.. but it would appear to me that this glaived creature may not have been an old god, but perhaps a minion of Yogg-Saron, seeing it has to appearence of a faceless one.