If that happens....I...I can't even contemplate the right words to express my rage...I...:angry:

clarkent

12-07-2006, 09:50 AM

Ok this is really getting crazy.

See: www.chron.com (http://www.chron.com)

kevingrt

12-07-2006, 09:50 AM

If that happens....I...I can't even contemplate the right words to express my rage...I...:angry:

Join the club!

fquaye149

12-07-2006, 09:51 AM

and this now.....

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4385643.html

If true, I am so confused on what this plan is of KW's???

I think the "plan" is obviously to get as much value as he thinks is possible for what he thinks is overrated or replaceable commodity.

Is he going about it in the right way? From what it seems with this deal, probably not.

salty99

12-07-2006, 09:51 AM

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4385643.html

palehozenychicty

12-07-2006, 09:52 AM

Wow. That one I would have a harder time understanding.

Jjav829

12-07-2006, 09:52 AM

I think the "plan" is obviously to get as much value as he thinks is possible for what he thinks is overrated or replaceable commodity.

Is he going about it in the right way? From what it seems with this deal, probably not.

Good starting pitching is never an overrated or replaceable commodity. This ****ing better not be true. And if it is true, we sure as hell better be getting more than Willy Taveras and Taylor Bucholz.

mccoydp

12-07-2006, 09:53 AM

*****.:o:

jenn2080

12-07-2006, 09:53 AM

If that happens....I...I can't even contemplate the right words to express my rage...I...:angry:

I won't either, but I am sure it will involve a lot of **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** and more ****

Mickster

12-07-2006, 09:53 AM

Dude, there are 3 threads on this already. Wow.

Madvora

12-07-2006, 09:54 AM

If Garland goes, then who the hell is going to pitch?
This better lead to signing Zito or something as a replacement. None of this stuff seems to make any sense to me.

Garland?

salty99

12-07-2006, 09:54 AM

Oops...ban me for life.

fquaye149

12-07-2006, 09:54 AM

Good starting pitching is never an overrated or replaceable commodity. This ****ing better not be true. And if it is true, we sure as hell better be getting more than Willy Taveras and Taylor Bucholz.

Like I said, he's probably mistaken in his belief.

I just was trying to answer the question of what his "plan" was

CaptainBallz

12-07-2006, 09:55 AM

I woke up with a huge stomach ache after seeing the GArcia deal late last night...Now this...

I defer to a higher power for answers....

:whiner:

bestplayernbb

12-07-2006, 09:56 AM

It's official now:o:

Mod Edit: That's just one man's opinion/rumor.

VladtheImpaler

12-07-2006, 09:56 AM

poopy

rdwj

12-07-2006, 09:56 AM

Honestly - If this is true, I'm calling my ticket rep to see if I can get my plan refunded. This it TOTAL crap

VladtheImpaler

12-07-2006, 09:57 AM

butter titties and bobby nipples

Edward

12-07-2006, 09:58 AM

Any sources of this being a done deal?

WhiteSox5187

12-07-2006, 10:00 AM

I JUST heard on ESPN radio that Williams was TRYING to deal Garland to Houston for Taveras but could not get a deal done.

1917

12-07-2006, 10:01 AM

It's official now:o:

Source?

Mickster

12-07-2006, 10:02 AM

I JUST heard on ESPN radio that Williams was TRYING to deal Garland to Houston for Taveras but could not get a deal done.

The update never mentioned Garland, just that the Sox were trying to deal for Taveras. KW can't be that stupid, can he?

Edward

12-07-2006, 10:02 AM

I JUST heard on ESPN radio that Williams was TRYING to deal Garland to Houston for Taveras but could not get a deal done.

:praying: Please be true... please be true :praying:

CHISOXFAN13

12-07-2006, 10:03 AM

If Garland goes, then who the hell is going to pitch?
This better lead to signing Zito or something as a replacement. None of this stuff seems to make any sense to me.

Garland?

Exactly. If the Sox make this deal and don't end up with Zito something is evry wrong.

I supported and agreed with the Garcia deal, but this one....:angry:

DaleJRFan

12-07-2006, 10:03 AM

Why would the Houston Chronicle report this as "set to be announced"??

The Astros are set to announce the acquisition of Jon Garland from the Chicago White Sox in a trade that will bolster the starting rotation and place him behind ace righthander Roy Oswalt.

jenn2080

12-07-2006, 10:03 AM

I woke up with a huge stomach ache after seeing the GArcia deal late last night...Now this...

I defer to a higher power for answers....

:whiner:

You had to know that Freddy was going to be traded. Everyone pretty much knew that in July. Hell he knew it.

Jurr

12-07-2006, 10:03 AM

Did I miss something? Is an up-and-coming leadoff hitter as valuable as a back to back 15+ game winner in this watered-down pitching league? There's gotta be more than this coming. KW values pitching too much.

FedEx227

12-07-2006, 10:05 AM

I was all for the Garcia trade, but if this goes down I might lose my mind.

spiffie

12-07-2006, 10:05 AM

:praying: Please be true... please be true :praying:
What the **** would we want ****ing Taveras for. Oh ****ing joy, he has SPEED! YAY! Another ****ing guy who can't get on ****ing base, can't hit his way out of a ****ing paper bag! Oh, and another ****ing 6 ERA pitcher who couldn't ****ing hack it in the ****ing NL! WHAT THE ****?!

(edit: I misread Edward's post. I stand by my trade anger, but it appears Edward is hoping the trade doesn't go through. sorry)

jenn2080

12-07-2006, 10:05 AM

:praying: Please be true... please be true :praying:

:bong: Why exactly would this be a good thing you would be praying for?

mccoydp

12-07-2006, 10:06 AM

:bong: Why exactly would this be a good thing you would be praying for?

I think he was hoping for the news that the deal didn't go through.

whitesoxfan

12-07-2006, 10:06 AM

If this is true, we're obviously dumping salary. But for what??? How did this team go from, "We don't care how much player x costs, we will raise the payroll to fit his needs" to trading two starting pitchers for minor leaguers???

I just don't understand this. I liked it better when we weren't doing trades :mad:

JUribe1989

12-07-2006, 10:06 AM

:bong: Why exactly would this be a good thing you would be praying for?

He was hoping the radio report that the deal couldn't be made was true.

UserNameBlank

12-07-2006, 10:06 AM

Nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FedEx227

12-07-2006, 10:07 AM

ESPN doesn't have anything in terms of news/rumors so I think the Houston Chronicle might be blowing smoke. But people said they heard it on ESPN 1000.

Please say it aint so.

MarySwiss

12-07-2006, 10:07 AM

Well, there were a lot of people calling for KW to do something....

However, I doubt many had dismantling the starting pitching staff in mind.

I sincerely hope this is not true. :(:

jenn2080

12-07-2006, 10:07 AM

He was hoping the radio report that the deal couldn't be made was true.

Thank god!

Heffalump

12-07-2006, 10:07 AM

:bong: Why exactly would this be a good thing you would be praying for?

I think he is praying that the deal DOES NOT go through....I know I am.

DaleJRFan

12-07-2006, 10:07 AM

When is the Mark Buehrle to St Louis for Anthony Reyes announcement come ou?? :angry:

russ99

12-07-2006, 10:07 AM

Well, there were a lot of people calling for KW to do something....

However, I doubt many had dismantling the starting pitching staff in mind.

I sincerely hope this is not true. :(:

If there's a Zito signing on the other end of this, I might accept it.

NonetheLoaiza

12-07-2006, 10:08 AM

What the **** would we want ****ing Taveras for. Oh ****ing joy, he has SPEED! YAY! Another ****ing guy who can't get on ****ing base, can't hit his way out of a ****ing paper bag! Oh, and another ****ing 6 ERA pitcher who couldn't ****ing hack it in the ****ing NL! WHAT THE ****?!

Tell us how you really feel. Seriously, relax...

Edward

12-07-2006, 10:08 AM

I think he was hoping for the news that the deal didn't go through.

Yep, if you look back I quoted the person who said he just heard on ESPN Radio that KW was trying for the deal, but couldn't get it to go through. There is no way in hell I would want this deal to go down. Makes no ****ing sense at all. :angry:

FedEx227

12-07-2006, 10:08 AM

When is the Mark Buehrle to St Louis for Anthony Reyes announcement come ou?? :angry:

That would actually be better then TAYLOR BUCHHOLZ/WILY!!

SoxFan78

12-07-2006, 10:09 AM

I hope its not true, one of our top 3 starters for a number 5 and a utitlity infielder. Come on, we are getting hosed on that deal

seventyseven

12-07-2006, 10:09 AM

rosenthal on fox sports says no deal. sox were asking for jason hirsch as well, but it fell through. NO DEAL.

chaotic8512

12-07-2006, 10:09 AM

I don't know about you guys, but what I thought Edward was trying to say is that he's hoping that the deal fell through, not that the deal is true.

I can understand how it can get misconstrued, though, and tempers are flaring with the prospect that this kind of deal might go through. Mine included. :angry: :angry: :angry:

CHISOXFAN13

12-07-2006, 10:09 AM

If there's a Zito signing on the other end of this, I might accept it.

Exactly. He's stock piling a lot of young pitching, too. There has to be another deal in his plans, too.

Right? God, I hope.

Jurr

12-07-2006, 10:10 AM

I hope its not true, one of our top 3 starters for a number 5 and a utitlity infielder. Come on, we are getting hosed on that deal
Check your sig. Then, repeat it 5 times.

DaveIsHere

12-07-2006, 10:10 AM

I officially have no idea what the hell is going on here. We go through the trial and tribulations over the years with Garland and then get rid of him(if true)

"IF" this is a dismantling, Reiny will have officially destroyed his fanbase.

Madvora

12-07-2006, 10:10 AM

Don't you think Garland would more likely be able to land a guy like Carl Crawford, than these two guys?

whitesoxfan

12-07-2006, 10:10 AM

rosenthal on fox sports says no deal. sox were asking for jason hirsch as well, but it fell through. NO DEAL.

Thank GOD.

Where the hell is the real Kenny Williams?

Law11

12-07-2006, 10:11 AM

I'm hearing rumors that Garland is on his way to Houston
Taveras' name is being tossed.

Trying to find a source.. Friend in Houston said a newsconf in Houston is coming..

FedEx227

12-07-2006, 10:11 AM

rosenthal on fox sports says no deal. sox were asking for jason hirsch as well, but it fell through. NO DEAL.

I pray you are right. Even with Hirsch I would have loathed that deal. I love collecting prospects but not for one of the bright young pitchers in the league.

spiffie

12-07-2006, 10:11 AM

Tell us how you really feel. Seriously, relax...
No, I won't ****ing relax if they trade two workhorse starters for a couple minor leaguers, a ****ty OF, and a crappy starter.

Evman5

12-07-2006, 10:12 AM

check out what's the score!

Jjav829

12-07-2006, 10:12 AM

When is the Mark Buehrle to St Louis for Anthony Reyes announcement come ou?? :angry:

That would actually be a good trade. Garland for Bucholz and Taveras would be crap.

Thankfully, Rosenthal is reporting that the Sox officials left the Winter meetings this morning without makiing the Garland deal.

ORLANDO, Fla. - The White Sox might not be done trading starting pitchers.
One day after sending right-hander Freddy Garcia to the Phillies, the White Sox were discussing sending right-hander Jon Garland to the Astros for center fielder Willy Taveras and right-handed pitching prospects Taylor Buchholz and Jason Hirsh, FOXSports.com has learned. White Sox general manager Ken Williams said no deal was close, and Sox officials left the winter meetings and returned to Chicago on Thursday morning. Most clubs were planning to leave the winter meetings Thursday as well.

salty99

12-07-2006, 10:12 AM

Here is the link about the trade not happening and Kenny leaving the Winter Meetings.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6248404

Flight #24

12-07-2006, 10:13 AM

rosenthal on fox sports says no deal. sox were asking for jason hirsch as well, but it fell through. NO DEAL.

Now THAT would make sense. Hirsh is a top-level pitching prospect, along the lines of Danks. That plus a leadoff/CF and a young MR would not be horrible for a guy a year away from FA.

What? Garland's 2 years away? :?:

Jurr

12-07-2006, 10:13 AM

I officially have no idea what the hell is going on here. We go through the trial and tribulations over the years with Garland and then get rid of him(if true)

"IF" this is a dismantling, Reiny will have officially destroyed his fanbase.
Eh, I'm not so sure. If KW is trying to gather a ton of arms with huge upside, then the team would be in position to be strong years down the road. If you let your pitching get old with nothing in the cupboard, you're dead in the water.

I like the idea of Cooper having a stable of Broadway, McCarthy, Gonzalez, Floyd, and Haeger to deal with. Sounds like a good future, doesn't it? If you're going to be a perennial contender, you've gotta stick your neck out with the young guys occasionally.

cheeses_h_rice

12-07-2006, 10:14 AM

If this deal goes through, I'm going to be sick.

FedEx227

12-07-2006, 10:15 AM

Now THAT would make sense. Hirsh is a top-level pitching prospect, along the lines of Danks. That plus a leadoff/CF and a young MR would not be horrible for a guy a year away from FA.

What? Garland's 2 years away? :?:

I still don't feel that trade holds up. I guess we are bias because we've seen the rise of Garland and he's been our own little home-grown player. But I wouldn't trade Garland for anything at this point in his career, he finally turned the corner and now we can't wait to deal him?!

However, someone mentioned above the Buehrle for Anthony Reyes would be great.

DaveIsHere

12-07-2006, 10:15 AM

Eh, I'm not so sure. If KW is trying to gather a ton of arms with huge upside, then the team would be in position to be strong years down the road. If you let your pitching get old with nothing in the cupboard, you're dead in the water.

I like the idea of Cooper having a stable of Broadway, McCarthy, Gonzalez, Floyd, and Haeger to deal with. Sounds like a good future, doesn't it? If you're going to be a perennial contender, you've gotta stick your neck out with the young guys occasionally.

Good point, but it is such a fine line you are walking depending on the reaction your fanbase conjurs. I have faith in KW, jus a little scared:(:

SouthSide_HitMen

12-07-2006, 10:15 AM

I was all for the Garcia trade, but if this goes down I might lose my mind.

I agree. I hate coming in here (WTS) but this was linked in the Clubhouse.

The Garcia deal brings in a MLB pitcher (Floyd) and a very good left handed prospect (Gonzalez who most people analyzing this say is the key to the deal / the pitcher with the most upside) and gives Kenny $10 mil to play around with.

Tavarez is Podsednik v2.0 and Buchholz doesn't help much now or in the future.

Flight #24

12-07-2006, 10:16 AM

Eh, I'm not so sure. If KW is trying to gather a ton of arms with huge upside, then the team would be in position to be strong years down the road. If you let your pitching get old with nothing in the cupboard, you're dead in the water.

I like the idea of Cooper having a stable of Broadway, McCarthy, Gonzalez, Floyd, and Haeger to deal with. Sounds like a good future, doesn't it? If you're going to be a perennial contender, you've gotta stick your neck out with the young guys occasionally.

That only works if you then have an absolute masher of an offense to support them, AND if you're consistently right on the prospect pitchers.

In general, winning staffs and organizations have combinations of veteran and young pitchers. I'm not sure I understand KW's philosophy here. Assume that this deal went through. Then in 2 years maybe you have a young, cheap, dominant rotation - just in time for Konerko to get old, Thome, AJ, & Dye to be gone, and Crede to be an expensive FA. Hooray!

Jurr

12-07-2006, 10:17 AM

I still don't feel that trade holds up. I guess we are bias because we've seen the rise of Garland and he's been our own little home-grown player. But I wouldn't trade Garland for anything at this point in his career, he finally turned the corner and now we can't wait to deal him?!

However, someone mentioned above the Buehrle for Anthony Reyes would be great.
Reyes will be lights out in a few years. I watched him pitch many a game in AAA for the Memphis Redbirds.

WhiteSox5187

12-07-2006, 10:17 AM

Phew! The deal is dead. I've heard itsaid twice now. Truth be told this is probably a rumor that some idiot in Houston started and freaked out EVERYONE here. Okay. Deep breath people. Deep breaths...

Pags 24

12-07-2006, 10:17 AM

rotoworld is reporting it..... "The Astros are reportedly set to acquire Jon Garland from the White Sox, reportedly for Willy Taveras and Taylor Buchholz."

If this is true..... i might throw up more than i did about the Freddy trade

CaptainBallz

12-07-2006, 10:17 AM

You had to know that Freddy was going to be traded. Everyone pretty much knew that in July. Hell he knew it.

Oh, I knew it as soon as he said "he lost his rhythm" when having to check runners at first...

I just think (and hope) he's worth more than K-Dubs got...

SoxRox

12-07-2006, 10:18 AM

The Houston Chronicle reports that the Astros are set to announce a trade for Jon Garland.

Supposedly Willy Taveras and Taylor Buchholz are coming to Chicago.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4385643.html

Good Grief!

-SoxRox

FedEx227

12-07-2006, 10:18 AM

Reyes will be lights out in a few years. I watched him pitch many a game in AAA for the Memphis Redbirds.

Did you see the World Series? He's lights out NOW. Cardinals have a damn good rotation with Carpenter, Wainwright and Reyes

FedEx227

12-07-2006, 10:19 AM

Phew! The deal is dead. I've heard itsaid twice now. Truth be told this is probably a rumor that some idiot in Houston started and freaked out EVERYONE here. Okay. Deep breath people. Deep breaths...

Haha, I'm at my computer lab at my school. When I read this thread I pounded my hand on the desk... haha

But indeed, deep breaths...

rdivaldi

12-07-2006, 10:19 AM

rotoworld is reporting it..... "The Astros are reportedly set to acquire Jon Garland from the White Sox, reportedly for Willy Taveras and Taylor Buchholz."

If this is true..... i might throw up more than i did about the Freddy trade

:dtroll:

Jurr

12-07-2006, 10:21 AM

That only works if you then have an absolute masher of an offense to support them, AND if you're consistently right on the prospect pitchers.

In general, winning staffs and organizations have combinations of veteran and young pitchers. I'm not sure I understand KW's philosophy here. Assume that this deal went through. Then in 2 years maybe you have a young, cheap, dominant rotation - just in time for Konerko to get old, Thome, AJ, & Dye to be gone, and Crede to be an expensive FA. Hooray!
Well, given the fact that KW's been right on Jenks, Thornton, McCarthy, and more likely than not Broadway and Haeger, I'd say his track record is pretty good.

Look at teams like the Marlins, A's, or Twins. They have less money to play with, but they keep plugging in young guys and making astute deals to keep themselves competitive. It looks like KW's taking a page from these teams, all the while being able to be more aggressive in FA due to the Sox payroll.

I hate the idea of losing proven, established players. It sucks. However, you've gotta keep turning over the roster in spots or the team becomes a fossil.

spawn

12-07-2006, 10:21 AM

Phew! The deal is dead. I've heard itsaid twice now. Truth be told this is probably a rumor that some idiot in Houston started and freaked out EVERYONE here. Okay. Deep breath people. Deep breaths...
My guess is KW, as always, was listening to offers and countering them. I'm guessing he was never seriuos about trading Garland.I thought it would be nuts to trade 2 starting pitchers, and I couldn't see KW ponying up the money for Zito. Great non-trade Kenny!

roylestillman

12-07-2006, 10:22 AM

I like the idea of Cooper having a stable of Broadway, McCarthy, Gonzalez, Floyd, and Haeger to deal with. Sounds like a good future, doesn't it? If you're going to be a perennial contender, you've gotta stick your neck out with the young guys occasionally.

Listen to yourself!

SoxFan78

12-07-2006, 10:22 AM

Confirmed dead deal on ESPN 1000

FedEx227

12-07-2006, 10:22 AM

Well, given the fact that KW's been right on Jenks, Thornton, McCarthy, and more likely than not Broadway and Haeger, I'd say his track record is pretty good.

Look at teams like the Marlins, A's, or Twins. They have less money to play with, but they keep plugging in young guys and making astute deals to keep themselves competitive. It looks like KW's taking a page from these teams, all the while being able to be more aggressive in FA due to the Sox payroll.

I hate the idea of losing proven, established players. It sucks. However, you've gotta keep turning over the roster in spots or the team becomes a fossil.

I totally agree with that stance. Which is more the reason I don't understand trading Garland. He's not a fossil, he's not on the verge of become a fossil. Resign his ass and keep him here until hes 30-32.

The Astros are reportedly set to acquire Jon Garland from the White Sox, reportedly for Willy Taveras and Taylor Buchholz.

-ROTOWORLD

Mr.1Dog

12-07-2006, 10:23 AM

Confirmed dead deal on ESPN 1000

That's a load off.

Jurr

12-07-2006, 10:23 AM

My guess is KW, as always, was listening to offers and countering them. I'm guessing he was never seriuos about trading Garland.I thought it would be nuts to trade 2 starting pitchers, and I couldn't see KW ponying up the money for Zito. Great non-trade Kenny!
I just wonder what that does to the psyche of these players, knowing that they're all easily expendable. It's funny how the business side of the sport can quickly dissolve away the warm and fuzzy feeling of a recent WS victory.

Mr.1Dog

12-07-2006, 10:23 AM

It's dead like your time here.:dtroll:

Edward

12-07-2006, 10:23 AM

Confirmed dead deal on ESPN 1000

::Pulls gun out of mouth::

Whew!

lumpyspun

12-07-2006, 10:23 AM

C'mon guy....there are about 800 posts about this...

rbeze09

12-07-2006, 10:24 AM

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4385643.html

i just got this from a friend....what the hell is kenny doing

Jurr

12-07-2006, 10:25 AM

Listen to yourself!
Not quite talking about the 2007 season, buddy. We're talking a few years down the road. I hope that we keep Garland and Buehrle into their thirties to keep a veteran presence in the rotation. However, there will come a time that the young bucks have to step up.

CaptainBallz

12-07-2006, 10:26 AM

I totally agree with that stance. Which is more the reason I don't understand trading Garland. He's not a fossil, he's not on the verge of become a fossil. Resign his ass and keep him here until hes 30-32.

http://www.gkn-la.net/images/photo_images/Celebration%20Seoul.jpg

If you look close, you can see me stepping off the ledge...

FedEx227

12-07-2006, 10:27 AM

If you look close, you can see me stepping off the ledge...

5th floor of the book depository, I see you.

SOecks

12-07-2006, 10:28 AM

Even though it's dead why would he consider trading Garland who has 2 years left on his deal. I'd think if anything like this were to happen it would be for another 1 year rental like Buehrle. The idea of this makes zero sense to me.

UserNameBlank

12-07-2006, 10:28 AM

Thank God. The Sox SHOULD NOT deal Garland. No way. Not a chance. He's a groundball pitcher who is young, talented, and a big damn part of this team. Re-sign Mark, keep Jon, and trade anybody else if you want KW, but do NOT trade Jon. Hell no.

haha....thank god...i was about to jump off the ledge like some people have said

infohawk

12-07-2006, 10:33 AM

Why would the Houston Chronicle report this as "set to be announced"??
"Dewey Defeats Truman"

Jjav829

12-07-2006, 10:34 AM

The inclusion of Hirsch at least makes the now dead deal sound a little better.

I think the one thing this should tell us is not to get too attached to any of our starters. Despite my initial thinking last night, it seems as if KW is really willing to trade a 2nd starter.

Flight #24

12-07-2006, 10:34 AM

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4385643.html

i just got this from a friend....what the hell is kenny doing

The Astros are reportedly set to acquire Jon Garland from the White Sox, reportedly for Willy Taveras and Taylor Buchholz.

-ROTOWORLD

Anyone else hear the latest report on AM1000? Something about WSI Mods snapping and going on a killing spree muttering "Damn Garland rumors.....must kill before they start another one!"
:knue
"I told you those Sox fans were dangerous! Where's that Ligue/Dybas retrospective?"

russ99

12-07-2006, 10:35 AM

The deal is dead, as I said earlier deep breaths people!!!!!

Thank goodness for that. But, still just the fact that Garland was on the table (presumably for Tavarez, Buchholz and Hirsh) makes me wonder if Kenny's not done shedding big pitcher contracts... :(:

kobo

12-07-2006, 10:36 AM

I'm glad this deal is dead.

WhiteSox5187

12-07-2006, 10:37 AM

The way KW operates is that EVERYONE is on the table, which does cause incredible stressful periods (I was near tears fifteen minutes ago) but all in all is probably a good strategy.

SouthSide_HitMen

12-07-2006, 10:37 AM

Quit Posting This ****!!!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly. The Astros were rumored to have had interest in Garland the same time last year (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=63938).

Unless I see it on MLB.com, it is BS in my book.

Crede_Fan

12-07-2006, 10:37 AM

Thank God this is dead! I was so pissed off.

Domeshot17

12-07-2006, 10:37 AM

Well, Kenny was trying to do this, just fell apart. I don't know *** he is doing, but if he pulls the trigger on a trade like this, you can label me king of the dark clouds because I will about be waiving my white flag.

HotelWhiteSox

12-07-2006, 10:39 AM

I am sick about this even being close to happening! The Winter Meetings doesn't mean the trade deadline is over though, I know Kenny must have an idea of what he's doing, and I have no clue what it is, what the hell is going on

BeviBall!

12-07-2006, 10:40 AM

rosenthal on fox sports says no deal. sox were asking for jason hirsch as well, but it fell through. NO DEAL.

Lets hope so. Hirsch and Buckholtz would have been awfully tempting though.

infohawk

12-07-2006, 10:41 AM

Truth be told this is probably a rumor that some idiot in Houston started and freaked out EVERYONE here.
I agree. This was probably one of many discussions KW has with other GMs. The big difference is that this one got out to the media who ran with the "scoop." There are probably a lot of different potential deals discussed that would raise plenty an eyebrow. We just never hear of them. Remember, until there's an agreement, everythings theoretical and exploratory. Nothing wrong with that.

Unregistered

12-07-2006, 10:42 AM

I am sick about this even being close to happening! The Winter Meetings doesn't mean the trade deadline is over though, I know Kenny must have an idea of what he's doing, and I have no clue what it is, what the hell is going on

He's gotta have some kind of plan - whether it's signing a FA pitcher or aquiring one in a trade or something - there's no way the mastermind behind the 2005 World Series team "forgot" that he needs 5 solid starting pitchers. Something else is definitely up...

jenn2080

12-07-2006, 10:42 AM

The deal is dead, as I said earlier deep breaths people!!!!!

Is there an article saying this is not going to happen?

WhiteSox5187

12-07-2006, 10:44 AM

No, but ESPN radio is reporting it's dead, and FSN.com apparently is saying that it was nixed. Someone had a great point until we read it on MLB.com it's all just idle speculation.

Jjav829

12-07-2006, 10:44 AM

Well, Kenny was trying to do this, just fell apart. I don't know *** he is doing, but if he pulls the trigger on a trade like this, you can label me king of the dark clouds because I will about be waiving my white flag.

I wouldn't really have a big problem with KW dealing a few pitchers if he got back a couple top-flight, MLB-ready prospects. Hirsch would fit that. Floyd and Gonzalez do not.

Look at it kinda like what Billy Beane did a few years ago. Say what you will about Beane, that move looks pretty good right now. He traded away Mulder and Hudson for 6 prospects. Mulder fetched them Dan Haren, who has been the better pitcher over the past 2 years. That's the kind of trade that KW needs to find if he wants to make these deals.

Domeshot17

12-07-2006, 10:44 AM

If it helps Jenn, Coop is on the score right now, they have basically said it fell apart

Edit: Jjav-

Completely agree. When I heard it this moring it did not have Hirsch involved. I like Hirsch a lot, and I think it is very Oakland like (trade away the vets you won't resign for some good kids) however Taylor B is alright, Gio alright, Floyd is a major project, Hirsch would have been awesome but we are in a different situation with Garland then The A's were Hudson. (1) Garland is peaking right now and (2) I don't think his arm is about to fall off.

The problem I have is do you think Buehlre Contreras Vazquez McCarthy Floyd is a playoff rotation?

WinTwins

12-07-2006, 10:46 AM

Just another interesting rumor, but Ken Rosenthal of FoxSports reports:

"One day after sending right-hander Freddy Garcia to the Phillies, the White Sox were discussing sending right-hander Jon Garland to the Astros for center fielder Willy Taveras and right-handed pitching prospects Taylor Buchholz and Jason Hirsh, FOXSports.com has learned."

Could KW be loading up on young (cheap) pitchers, now that the market has gotten so ridiculous? If so, at what price? Trading Garcia is one thing, but TWO front-line starters might be a push, although I don't know too much about Hirsch. A rotation of McCarthy, Gavin, Gio, and Hirsch could be POTENTIALLY formidable and inexpensive in a year or two.

Then again, this may never happen.

Unregistered

12-07-2006, 10:46 AM

If it helps Jenn, Coop is on the score right now, they have basically said it fell apart

The same Coop who had no idea Freddy Garcia was traded until his wife heard it on the news? :cool:

jenn2080

12-07-2006, 10:47 AM

If it helps Jenn, Coop is on the score right now, they have basically said it fell apart

I was just listening to him.

gf2020

12-07-2006, 10:48 AM

I'm amazed that people keep posting this as though, inexplicably, the entire WSI community missed it.

1917

12-07-2006, 10:48 AM

With Coop having no idea about this, makes me think that it's not going to stick with Floyd. I hope

Jerko

12-07-2006, 10:50 AM

I'm amazed that people keep posting this as though, inexplicably, the entire WSI community missed it.

Some are just doing it to be funny IMO. Not working.

WhiteSox5187

12-07-2006, 10:52 AM

I said earlier that this was probably something started by a guy in Houston like "I hear the 'Stros might get Garland. We'd probably have to give up Taveras or something" and it was fascinating to see how quickly everyone reacted to this and how quickly everyone freaked out and now we're regaining our nerves. I think we oughta do something like "I see the Sox are close to getting Jeter" and then watch people on Yankee message boards freak out. :cool:

Jjav829

12-07-2006, 10:54 AM

I said earlier that this was probably something started by a guy in Houston like "I hear the 'Stros might get Garland. We'd probably have to give up Taveras or something" and it was fascinating to see how quickly everyone reacted to this and how quickly everyone freaked out and now we're regaining our nerves. I think we oughta do something like "I see the Sox are close to getting Jeter" and then watch people on Yankee message boards freak out. :cool:

I highly doubt this was started by just some random person. It's most likely someone with the Astros leaked it too soon, and this seems to confirm that thought.

Here's a turn of events, courtesy of Newsday's Ken Davidoff: The Astros were quite confident they had a deal with the White Sox for righthander Jon Garland this morning, and high-ranking team officials had no problem telling people as much. But White Sox officials insist there is no deal -- at least not yet. And their contingent of team officials is currently leaving the winter meetings as I type.
So for the moment, the Astros are still in the mix for Andy Pettitte, until further notice. The Astros and White Sox obviously are close to making this happen. In this proposed deal, the Astros apparently agreed to give up pitching prospect Taylor Buchholz in the deal for Garland, who would have replaced Pettitte.
Stay tuned...

CLR01

12-07-2006, 10:54 AM

I think we oughta do something like "I see the Sox are close to getting Jeter" and then watch people on Yankee message boards freak out. :cool:\

I think Sox fans would freak out about that more than Spankee fans would.

samram

12-07-2006, 10:59 AM

I highly doubt this was started by just some random person. It's most likely someone with the Astros leaked it too soon, and this seems to confirm that thought.

Yeah, I hardly think the deal is dead. It's not as if they can't do the deal from Chicago and Houston. They probably just didn't want to miss their flights.

1917

12-07-2006, 11:00 AM

Was this the fastest post to 100?

Fenway

12-07-2006, 11:00 AM

lovely

Gammons on WEEI says "Houston believes they have a deal and plan to announce it" KW has returned from the airport 12 Noon report

SoxxoS

12-07-2006, 11:02 AM

If we get Hirsh, I say BRING it.

Im probably in the minority, though.

HotelWhiteSox

12-07-2006, 11:02 AM

lovely

Gammons on WEEI says "Houston believes they have a deal and plan to announce it" KW has returned from the airport 12 Noon report

ahhhhhh

SABRSox

12-07-2006, 11:02 AM

lovely

Gammons on WEEI says "Houston believes they have a deal and plan to announce it" KW has returned from the airport 12 Noon report

At this point, KW better be demanding Hirsh be added to the deal.

Unregistered

12-07-2006, 11:02 AM

lovely

Gammons on WEEI says "Houston believes they have a deal and plan to announce it" KW has returned from the airport 12 Noon report

There's gonna be teams lining up around the block to deal with "Crazy Dealin'" Kenny Williams.

Gammons on WEEI says "Houston believes they have a deal and plan to announce it" KW has returned from the airport 12 Noon report

Kenny forgot his laptop and hand held sudoku game.

WhiteSox5187

12-07-2006, 11:06 AM

There's gonna be teams lining up around the block to deal with "Crazy Dealin'" Kenny Williams.

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/594/564192694953fx5.jpg
"IT'S OUR WACKY WINTER SALE! EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!"
Hahahaha!! That made me laugh out loud, I have no clue why.

Flight #24

12-07-2006, 11:06 AM

So the rotation becomes Contreras-Vazquez-Buehrle-McCarthy-Hirsh/Floyd/Buchholz with one of the last 3 moving to the 'pen and one to AAA?

That's not horrible, and it does give you a significant stock of young pitching for the next 2-5 years that provides flexibility. You'd have McCarthy, Hirsh, Gio, Broadway all #3-caliber or better SPs, you'd have #4/5 guys in Floyd/Buchholz/Haeger, and you'd have cash to resign probably 2 of Contreras/Vazquez/Buehrle and hold onto Crede when he hits FA. Plus you have insurance in CF and at leadoff with Taveras.

I still would have thought you'd get better return. To me, the Houston deal is what you should get in a Garcia trade and more for Garland.

samram

12-07-2006, 11:08 AM

lovely

Gammons on WEEI says "Houston believes they have a deal and plan to announce it" KW has returned from the airport 12 Noon report

Like, got back to his office at the Cell or went back to the hotel in Orlando?

gf2020

12-07-2006, 11:16 AM

lovely

Gammons on WEEI says "Houston believes they have a deal and plan to announce it" KW has returned from the airport 12 Noon report

Someone better tell Joe Cowley that. He's on the Score right now describing the entire scenario as an attempt to find if there any leaks within the White Sox organization.

samram

12-07-2006, 11:18 AM

Someone better tell Joe Cowley that. He's on the Score right now describing the entire scenario as an attempt to find if there any leaks within the White Sox organization.

I heard that. Nice and devious. I like it.

oeo

12-07-2006, 11:18 AM

Kenny really has me stumped right now...

If he was seriously going to trade another starter, then I have to believe that we were going to trade these prospects for another pitcher.

HoosierHerb

12-07-2006, 11:32 AM

Someone better tell Joe Cowley that. He's on the Score right now describing the entire scenario as an attempt to find if there any leaks within the White Sox organization.

If this is true, I really like Kenny, make them think they have a deal then say--nope I just wanted to see if you'd talk. Brilliant!

EDIT--I thought Kenny was checking to see if Houston was a reliable trade partner, I just now read that he was checking for INTERNAL leaks.

Domeshot17

12-07-2006, 11:39 AM

Haha, what if Kenny was just so sick of being lowballed, he agreed to all these trades, then just happened to forget to submit the paperwork.

I know its 100% not the case, doing that would basically get you blacklisted by 29 other GM's.

I guess in times like this, when a new era is starting, an era us ending, you have to remain in good humor.

Even if it doesnt happen today, so long to the fab 4, who gave us such an unreal run of awesome pitching in the 2005 postseason. No team will ever throw the ball like Buehlre Contreras Gar and Freddy did in the Alcs, and for most, the World Series

Harry Chappas

12-07-2006, 11:45 AM

for Willy Tavares, Taylor Bucholz, and maybe Jason Hirsch.

iamkoza

12-07-2006, 11:45 AM

Sorry if this has been posted, but i haven't seen it anywhere... this trade makes little sense to me, hopefully it is bs.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4385643.html

edit:sorry for garland typo :(

Mr.1Dog

12-07-2006, 11:45 AM

He is???!!!! No way!

Harry Chappas

12-07-2006, 11:47 AM

Sorry - I have a job and don't listen to the radio in the office. Someone just told me that they heard on ESPN1000 that the deal fell apart. My bad.

cbotnyse

12-07-2006, 11:47 AM

I thought we needed pitching. :?: :o:

Chez

12-07-2006, 11:47 AM

I hope not. Garland proved to me last year that he's the real deal.

Mickster

12-07-2006, 11:48 AM

:roflmao:

Blob

12-07-2006, 11:48 AM

It's been said before and needs to be said again...I hate the offseason... :(:

jenn2080

12-07-2006, 11:49 AM

It's been said before and needs to be said again...I hate the offseason... :(:

116 days until the home opener!

Jerko

12-07-2006, 11:51 AM

Maybe we should stick this thread so all the people that "checked but didn't see anything posted" could see the damn thing and quit starting 500 new threads!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!!!?!!!! Good lord, it's right there, how do you miss it???

The Garland trade was a rumor created by KW to see who who leak it to the press??? Wow. :o:

CLR01

12-07-2006, 11:58 AM

Good lord, it's right there, how do you miss it???

It's actually pretty easy when you can't be bothered to look around for an existing thread.

Flight #24

12-07-2006, 12:00 PM

It's actually pretty easy when you can't be bothered to look around for an existing thread.

Seriously, at this point you could make an argument that anyone starting a new "Garland to the Astros" thread ought to be banned, IMHO.

Not that I'm saying such a thing SHOULD happen, because that would be telling the mods how to do their jobs, and they do it in an exemplary fashion already!

Jerko

12-07-2006, 12:03 PM

Seriously, at this point you could make an argument that anyone starting a new "Garland to the Astros" thread ought to be banned, IMHO.

Not that I'm saying such a thing SHOULD happen, because that would be telling the mods how to do their jobs, and they do it in an exemplary fashion already!

Look like that's been happening all along......

:cool:

CLR01

12-07-2006, 12:06 PM

Look like that's been happening all along......

:cool:

He's only an hour behind. :smile:

konerkosox13

12-07-2006, 12:07 PM

Saw this on rotowire.com

Jon Garland (P) HOU (http://www.rotowire.com/baseball/player.htm?ID=6166) http://www.rotowire.com/images/watch.gif (http://www.rotowire.com/myrotowire/watchlist.htm?player_ids=6166&sport_code=BASEBALL&activity_code=MLB&submit=Add)12/7/2006The Astros are set to announce the acquisition of Garland, with Willy Taveras and Taylor Buchholz rumored to be players going back to the White Sox for the right-hander, the Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4385643.html) reports. However, Jayson Stark of ESPN.com reported that the deal has hit a snag (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/news/story?id=2689745).The acquisition of Garland would immediately reduce the chances that the Astros would be able to fit Andy Pettitte into their budget. If they work out the snag, the move to the National

The Immigrant

12-07-2006, 12:08 PM

Welcome. Good Bye.

Mickster

12-07-2006, 12:08 PM

Saw this on rotowire.com

Jon Garland (P) HOU (http://www.rotowire.com/baseball/player.htm?ID=6166) http://www.rotowire.com/images/watch.gif (http://www.rotowire.com/myrotowire/watchlist.htm?player_ids=6166&sport_code=BASEBALL&activity_code=MLB&submit=Add)12/7/2006The Astros are set to announce the acquisition of Garland, with Willy Taveras and Taylor Buchholz rumored to be players going back to the White Sox for the right-hander, the Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4385643.html) reports. However, Jayson Stark of ESPN.com reported that the deal has hit a snag (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/news/story?id=2689745).The acquisition of Garland would immediately reduce the chances that the Astros would be able to fit Andy Pettitte into their budget. If they work out the snag, the move to the National

Awesome!!!!!

jenn2080

12-07-2006, 12:08 PM

Saw this on rotowire.com

Jon Garland (P) HOU (http://www.rotowire.com/baseball/player.htm?ID=6166) http://www.rotowire.com/images/watch.gif (http://www.rotowire.com/myrotowire/watchlist.htm?player_ids=6166&sport_code=BASEBALL&activity_code=MLB&submit=Add)12/7/2006The Astros are set to announce the acquisition of Garland, with Willy Taveras and Taylor Buchholz rumored to be players going back to the White Sox for the right-hander, the Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4385643.html) reports. However, Jayson Stark of ESPN.com reported that the deal has hit a snag (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/news/story?id=2689745).The acquisition of Garland would immediately reduce the chances that the Astros would be able to fit Andy Pettitte into their budget. If they work out the snag, the move to the National

You should also see the search function or the other secions of WSI. There is about a 25 page thread on this. :rolleyes:

soxinem1

12-07-2006, 12:08 PM

According to the Houston Chronicle, which I happened to be reading for a Real Estate listing, of all things:

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4385643.html

SABRSox

12-07-2006, 12:09 PM

:searchfirst:

veeter

12-07-2006, 12:09 PM

I think Houston wanted to give up the two guys, but KW asked for the third stud, and they said no.

jdm2662

12-07-2006, 12:09 PM

What's the over/under for how many more threads will be started on this? I say about ten more...

IlliniSox4Life

12-07-2006, 12:10 PM

Can we change the forum from Whats the score to "Garland to Houston?"

CaptainBallz

12-07-2006, 12:10 PM

Oh boy....

jenn2080

12-07-2006, 12:10 PM

What's the over/under for how many more threads will be started on this? I say about ten more...

5-10. It is amazing the people afraid to search. Even more amazing they feel they are going to break the "big news"

kobo

12-07-2006, 12:12 PM

Stop The Insanity!!!

FloridaSox

12-07-2006, 12:12 PM

Jason Stark is reporting: • The proposed White Sox-Astros deal (Jon Garland (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6396) for Willy Taveras (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7269) and Taylor Buchholz (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7517)) has no chance of happening as it has been reported. White Sox GM Kenny Williams said that he can't trade a second starter unless he gets two major players in return.

CaptainBallz

12-07-2006, 12:13 PM

Joe Cowley's interview on 670 was awesome.

"You either get the Garcia trade, or you don't."

The Garland trade was a rumor created by KW to see who who leak it to the press??? Wow. :o:

Can you clarify?

jenn2080

12-07-2006, 12:13 PM

Jason Stark is reporting: • The proposed White Sox-Astros deal (Jon Garland (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6396) for Willy Taveras (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7269) and Taylor Buchholz (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7517)) has no chance of happening as it has been reported. White Sox GM Kenny Williams said that he can't trade a second starter unless he gets two major players in return.

:?: Really? No ****! huh. Thank god this has been confirmed.

SABRSox

12-07-2006, 12:16 PM

Jason Stark is reporting: • The proposed White Sox-Astros deal (Jon Garland (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6396) for Willy Taveras (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7269) and Taylor Buchholz (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7517)) has no chance of happening as it has been reported. White Sox GM Kenny Williams said that he can't trade a second starter unless he gets two major players in return.

You hear that, NYM? Pelfrey and Milledge for Vasquez.

CaptainBallz

12-07-2006, 12:18 PM

:?: Really? No ****! huh. Thank god this has been confirmed.

I have never felt this range of emotions in one mega-thread before. Fear, Anger, Relief, Happiness, Confusion, and now Delirium...

Vernam

12-07-2006, 12:18 PM

Joe Cowley's interview on 670 was awesome.

"You either get the Garcia trade, or you don't."

The Garland trade was a rumor created by KW to see who who leak it to the press??? Wow. :o:
Yes, it was part of Kenny's master plan to purge the organization and WSI of idiot rumor mongers. :redneck

Vernam

Flight #24

12-07-2006, 12:20 PM

:searchfirst:

The scary thing is that it doesn't even need searching. It's at the top of the friggin forum, not even down near the bottom or something!

veeter

12-07-2006, 12:21 PM

Well, Kenny sure knows what to say to Garland when trades fall through. First he was going to the Angels for Erstad. Next to Texas, now to Houston. At some point Garland is going to develop a complex.

FedEx227

12-07-2006, 12:22 PM

GUYZ I WAS FOLLOWING MIKE CARUSO AT THE AIRPORT AND HE TOLD ME THAT THE SOX TRADED GARLAND TO HOUSTON *** BOYCOTT!

ajismyhero

12-07-2006, 12:23 PM

Phew, happy to see this was not true.

Hopefully there's something bigger at play and that was just a distraction....

jenn2080

12-07-2006, 12:24 PM

Phew, happy to see this was not true.

Hopefully there's something bigger at play and that was just a distraction....

I would call it a good way to waste part of the day on top of raising some blood preasure.

jdm2662

12-07-2006, 12:27 PM

I would call it a good day to waste part of the day on top of raising some blood preasure.

The amount of threads started on this topic, especially after it was considered dead over an hour ago, was enough entertainment for me.

samram

12-07-2006, 12:28 PM

The scary thing is that it doesn't even need searching. It's at the top of the friggin forum, not even down near the bottom or something!

I just love that they assume they're the first ones to hear it when they sign on and see 300 names online.

DaleJRFan

12-07-2006, 12:28 PM

Well, Kenny sure knows what to say to Garland when trades fall through. First he was going to the Angels for Erstad. Next to Texas, now to Houston. At some point Garland is going to develop a complex.

I think this is why Jon Garland has a no-trade clause for 2007.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox and Astros worked out the deal (which is far from a bad trade, may I add)... and when Garland was approached, he nixed the trade, due to his no trade clause.

EDIT: I didn't realize it was Buckholtz... sorry. BAD TRADE :O

34 Inch Stick

12-07-2006, 12:29 PM

Jason Stark is reporting: • The proposed White Sox-Astros deal (Jon Garland (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6396) for Willy Taveras (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7269) and Taylor Buchholz (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7517)) has no chance of happening as it has been reported. White Sox GM Kenny Williams said that he can't trade a second starter unless he gets two major players in return.

I wish KW felt the same way about trading the first starter.

JB98

12-07-2006, 12:46 PM

Thank goodness this trade did not happen. After all that bluster about how we "don't need to make a trade," we sure seem willing to make horrible, horrible deals this week.

Why KW? Why are you trying to gut my favorite baseball team? :whiner:

Juice16

12-07-2006, 12:50 PM

Thank goodness this trade did not happen. After all that bluster about how we "don't need to make a trade," we sure seem willing to make horrible, horrible deals this week.

Why KW? Why are you trying to gut my favorite baseball team? :whiner:

I feel the sam way. St. Nick dropped off the World Series DVDs in my stocking yesterday and right now I don't know if I can watch them.

Craig Grebeck

12-07-2006, 12:52 PM

If we get Hirsh, great deal.

DaleJRFan

12-07-2006, 12:55 PM

If we get Hirsh, great deal.

Yea, I just read the Rosenthal report... Buckholz/Hirsh/Tavaras for Garland. Still not sure I'd want to make that trade after listening to Cooper talk about Garland on the radio this morning. It sounds like Garland is going to be First-half 05 + Second-half 06 = 2007 & 2008. Garland is 27 and signed through 2008. Why trade him for Tavaras and a couple of unknowns?? At least with Garcia, We knew he wasn't coming back in 08, is getting older, and is easily replaced by McCarthy... get something for him while he has value, which the Sox did indeed do.

JB98

12-07-2006, 12:56 PM

If we get Hirsh, great deal.

Who? I want to win in 2007. 2010 is promised to no one. These are the types of deals that Schueler always made. We were always waiting for a future that never came. That's why KW has been a breath of fresh air. He's always played to win THIS YEAR. Now, there seems to be a change in philosophy, and it's very alarming.

Craig Grebeck

12-07-2006, 12:56 PM

I'm surprised there haven't been more rumors of Garland for Wells.

SABRSox

12-07-2006, 12:57 PM

I'm surprised there haven't been more rumors of Garland for Wells.

Under the radar.

Domeshot17

12-07-2006, 01:00 PM

as reported, no thanks

Garland for Hirsch Bucholtz and Lidge

I likey

kobo

12-07-2006, 01:09 PM

Who? I want to win in 2007. 2010 is promised to no one. These are the types of deals that Schueler always made. We were always waiting for a future that never came. That's why KW has been a breath of fresh air. He's always played to win THIS YEAR. Now, there seems to be a change in philosophy, and it's very alarming.
What change in philosophy? KW traded Garcia because the Sox have McCarthy to take his spot. We knew one of the starters were going to be dealt this off season, and KW traded for minor league pitching that will help the club in the future. I see nothing wrong with that trade. And Garland isn't going anywhere now. Obviously KW did not like what Houston was offering and the trade did not go through. What is alarming about that? How is that a change in philosophy?

ChiSoxLifer

12-07-2006, 01:14 PM

I'm sorry if someone else already mentioned this but since this is such a long thread I don't have time to read the whole thing. I believe Garland was offered and if Houston would've accepted, Freddy probably would not have been traded. I'm pretty sure the Chronicle got wind of this and the paper was already in print when the Garcia heist took place. I find it highly unlikely Kenny would've traded two starters. If he does, it truly looks like a salary purge and any goodwill and happy feelings from the World Series championship goes down the drain.

Iguana775

12-07-2006, 01:15 PM

I'm surprised there haven't been more rumors of Garland for Wells.

Kip? :redneck

CLR01

12-07-2006, 01:21 PM

I'm sorry if someone else already mentioned this but since this is such a long thread I don't have time to read the whole thing. I believe Garland was offered and if Houston would've accepted, Freddy probably would not have been traded. I'm pretty sure the Chronicle got wind of this and the paper was already in print when the Garcia heist took place. I find it highly unlikely Kenny would've traded two starters. If he does, it truly looks like a salary purge and any goodwill and happy feelings from the World Series championship goes down the drain.

There is no way this would have gone 12+ hours without anyone mentioning that the two teams were talking.

FloridaSox

12-07-2006, 01:21 PM

"The White Sox traded Freddy Garcia to the Phillies on Wednesday and nearly sent Jon Garland to the Astros. The trade hit a snag and fell through, however, when young right-hander Taylor Buchholz failed a physical. Chicago also stood to receive speedy center fielder Willy Taveras and right-hander Jason Hirsh in the deal." SI.com

JB98

12-07-2006, 01:22 PM

What change in philosophy? KW traded Garcia because the Sox have McCarthy to take his spot. We knew one of the starters were going to be dealt this off season, and KW traded for minor league pitching that will help the club in the future. I see nothing wrong with that trade. And Garland isn't going anywhere now. Obviously KW did not like what Houston was offering and the trade did not go through. What is alarming about that? How is that a change in philosophy?

HE TRIED TO GUT THE ROTATION THAT WON US THE WORLD SERIES!!!!!!

And he got nothing in return for Garcia that will help us in 2007. I don't disagree with the idea of trading Freddy to open a spot for McCarthy. But starting pitching is so valuable right now that you HAVE TO get somebody who can help immediately in return. All we got was a hope and a promise, and I'm so, so disappointed.

I don't give a crap about the future. I see an opportunity to win now, and I want to seize it. I don't know why I should take it on faith that Floyd and Gonzalez are going to lead us to the promised land in 2010.

"The White Sox traded Freddy Garcia to the Phillies on Wednesday and nearly sent Jon Garland to the Astros. The trade hit a snag and fell through, however, when young right-hander Taylor Buchholz failed a physical. Chicago also stood to receive speedy center fielder Willy Taveras and right-hander Jason Hirsh in the deal." SI.com

If true that is a pretty quick trigger on the physicals.

cws05champ

12-07-2006, 01:28 PM

Not to sound too much like Hangar, I have to point out the fact that nowhere on the tribune website does it mention Jason hirsh in the Garland deal, making it seem like KW was getting fleeced with just Tavaras and Buckholz coming. There were several media outlets that reported that the Sox asking for Hirsh was the deal breaker....Tribune just has their "reporters" make eroneous comments that the sox will get rid of their whole rotation on the same day the Cubs sign a $40 mil pitcher.

ma-gaga

12-07-2006, 01:32 PM

Seriously, at this point you could make an argument that anyone starting a new "Garland to the Astros" thread ought to be banned, IMHO.

Not that I'm saying such a thing SHOULD happen, because that would be telling the mods how to do their jobs, and they do it in an exemplary fashion already!

LOL. I think they did. There's about a half dozen people banned already in this thread, looking like they started a thread...

FWIW, the Houston fans (http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=121393&page=9&pp=20)don't like the deal if Hirsch is involved. They apparently think he's going to be a stud. So, if the deal happens with Hirsch, I think KW makes a nice steal.

The Houston board also claims that the SI report of Buchholtz failing a physical didn't happen. So, who knows...

:gulp:

GoSox2K3

12-07-2006, 01:35 PM

Not to sound too much like Hangar, ...

I think most people will stop reading your post right here.. :wink:

cws05champ

12-07-2006, 01:39 PM

I think most people will stop reading your post right here.. :wink:

I don't blame you for that!!:cool:

Steelrod

12-07-2006, 01:40 PM

I'm surprised there haven't been more rumors of Garland for Wells.
H.G?

Juice16

12-07-2006, 01:52 PM

Its amazing how the White Sox fans were finally able to celebrate a championship in their lifetime and now 10+ players from that team (including several startes) are already gone. Had the Garland deal gone through I don't know what to think. After the series win sunk in, I was looking foward to a run a the title for years to come, not trades of Garcia and alomst Garland for nothing.

Jjav829

12-07-2006, 01:56 PM

I'm surprised there haven't been more rumors of Garland for Wells.

Why would there be? The only way Garland goes, or any other starter for that matter, is if we are getting back a major league ready starter in return. If we trade Garland for Wells, we're right back at where we were in 2004. A bunch of thumpers in the middle of the order, a few reliable pitchers and no 5th starter we can count on. Whoopee. Welcome to 85 wins and a 3rd place finish.

SABRSox

12-07-2006, 02:04 PM

Anybody else hearing that the Houston deal was nixed because Bucholz failed a physical? Sounds like complete and utter nonsense to me (when the hell would there have been time to give him a physical?) but thought I'd throw that out there.

I think it's bull plop myself.

BeviBall!

12-07-2006, 02:08 PM

Anybody else hearing that the Houston deal was nixed because Bucholz failed a physical? Sounds like complete and utter nonsense to me (when the hell would there have been time to give him a physical?) but thought I'd throw that out there.

Oh you can get a physical, Dude... I can get you a physical before 3 o'clock.

Lip Man 1

12-07-2006, 02:10 PM

SI.com reported specifically that's the reason the deal 'fell apart.'

Take it for what it's worth.

Lip

kobo

12-07-2006, 02:13 PM

HE TRIED TO GUT THE ROTATION THAT WON US THE WORLD SERIES!!!!!!

And he got nothing in return for Garcia that will help us in 2007. I don't disagree with the idea of trading Freddy to open a spot for McCarthy. But starting pitching is so valuable right now that you HAVE TO get somebody who can help immediately in return. All we got was a hope and a promise, and I'm so, so disappointed.

I don't give a crap about the future. I see an opportunity to win now, and I want to seize it. I don't know why I should take it on faith that Floyd and Gonzalez are going to lead us to the promised land in 2010.
As it stands right now, the Sox have a rotation for next year that consists of 5 starters. Garland is here and was not traded. Why complain over something that did not happen? If Garland had been traded and the Sox got nothing for him to help the rotaion next season, then I would be pissed too. But right now, Garland is here, so crisis averted. And I like the deal they made for Garcia.

Juice16

12-07-2006, 02:18 PM

As it stands right now, the Sox have a rotation for next year that consists of 5 starters. Garland is here and was not traded. Why complain over something that did not happen? If Garland had been traded and the Sox got nothing for him to help the rotaion next season, then I would be pissed too. But right now, Garland is here, so crisis averted. And I like the deal they made for Garcia.

My problem is Garland was almost delt and for nothing again. Why? I know he is still here but how does this effect him knowing Kenny tried dealing him? The biggest issue is what is Kenny doing trading away two starters for nothing. Thank god the Garland deal fell through.

oeo

12-07-2006, 02:19 PM

The Houston Chronicle is saying that Buccholz said he never took a physical. Take it for what it's worth, though, as these are the same people that started this rumor.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4385643.html

oeo

12-07-2006, 02:21 PM

My problem is Garland was almost delt and for nothing again. Why? I know he is still here but how does this effect him knowing Kenny tried dealing him? The biggest issue is what is Kenny doing trading away two starters for nothing. Thank god the Garland deal fell through.

Only a couple of "insiders" still state that there was a deal that was close. If the Sox say that the reports were false, I believe them, and not some ****ing idiots that are running around looking for anything to talk about.

kobo

12-07-2006, 02:27 PM

My problem is Garland was almost delt and for nothing again. Why? I know he is still here but how does this effect him knowing Kenny tried dealing him? The biggest issue is what is Kenny doing trading away two starters for nothing. Thank god the Garland deal fell through.
Are you serious? How is this going to affect Garland? He's a MLB pitcher, he should know he can be traded at any time unless he has a no-trade clause. If the thought of almost being traded is going to ruin his psyche that much then he has no business being a pitcher. This is the nature of the business; players get traded.

kobo

12-07-2006, 02:28 PM

Only a couple of "insiders" still state that there was a deal that was close. If the Sox say that the reports were false, I believe them, and not some ****ing idiots that are running around looking for anything to talk about.
I agree with this as well. This all could have been a huge rumor that some 'reporter' in Houston decided to run with. Garland is here, he's staying, the rotaion is intact, I'm happy.

Domeshot17

12-07-2006, 02:36 PM

Im curious to see what the Astro's had to say. The Houston Chronicle article said they had a press confrence planned. Who knows how close this deal really was. Didn't Gammons report Kenny came back from the aiport to talk more.

I think we know more on this board then the media.

Honestly, I bet we could start some hot yet realistic trade rumor, and it just may show up somewhere.

oeo

12-07-2006, 02:39 PM

Im curious to see what the Astro's had to say. The Houston Chronicle article said they had a press confrence planned. Who knows how close this deal really was. Didn't Gammons report Kenny came back from the aiport to talk more.

I think we know more on this board then the media.

Honestly, I bet we could start some hot yet realistic trade rumor, and it just may show up somewhere.

Didn't a rumor get started at SoxTalk a year or two ago?

Iwritecode

12-07-2006, 02:43 PM

My problem is Garland was almost delt and for nothing again. Why? I know he is still here but how does this effect him knowing Kenny tried dealing him? The biggest issue is what is Kenny doing trading away two starters for nothing. Thank god the Garland deal fell through.

Garland was an Angel a couple of years ago until the deal was nixed at the very last second. It doesn't look like it's affected him at all in the years since...

CPditka

12-07-2006, 02:44 PM

SI.com reported (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/12/07/thursday.scoop/1.html) that the deal fell through because Taylor Buchholz failed a physical. The White Sox might have shied away from the deal because of questions about Buchholz, but it is not true that he failed a physical, according to Buchholz. ....

From the Chronicle
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4385643.html
Buchholz says he hasn't had a physical since last spring training. He had right shoulder surgery after the 2004 season and was still recovering at the start of the 2005 season, but he hasn't had shoulder problems since. He did have tendonitis in his right middle finger for about two months this past season. "My shoulder's been great," Buchholz said. "The only thing that gave me problems was my middle finger. It was bothering me for about two months, from right around the All-Star break. But I was fine at the end of the season. I haven't had a physical.

This is just rediculous.

Unregistered

12-07-2006, 03:05 PM

This is just rediculous.

Ridiculous, too. :bandance:

tony1972

12-07-2006, 03:37 PM

At least none of us overreacted to the Garland Rumor :D:

"Oh my God!"

"I'm cancelling my season tickets !"

"I have a stomachache!"

"I feel sick"

"I am consumed with RAGE !":smile:

JB98

12-07-2006, 04:22 PM

As it stands right now, the Sox have a rotation for next year that consists of 5 starters. Garland is here and was not traded. Why complain over something that did not happen? If Garland had been traded and the Sox got nothing for him to help the rotaion next season, then I would be pissed too. But right now, Garland is here, so crisis averted. And I like the deal they made for Garcia.

So you're happy that we traded a guy you can count on for 30 starts, 200 innings and roughly 15 wins every year for prospects that likely won't help us in 2007? It's your funeral.

Yeah, we still have a rotation that consists of five starters, but we still have two gaping holes in the outfield, question marks in the bullpen and a question mark for a leadoff hitter. And our biggest piece to trade this offseason has already been dealt. Thrillsville. At best, we're the same team we were last year. Good enough to compete, but not good enough to win.

KW better have something else up his sleeve, and it better not be trading Garland.

JohnTucker0814

12-07-2006, 04:26 PM

Would you trade Fields and Floyd or Gonzalez for Baldelli?

DeuceUnit

12-07-2006, 04:27 PM

This offseason has been garbage so far. As of now, our team is only worse than last year.

JB98

12-07-2006, 04:27 PM

Would you trade Fields and Floyd or Gonzalez for Baldelli?

In a second.

Flight #24

12-07-2006, 04:28 PM

KW better have something else up his sleeve, and it better not be trading Garland.

Assume for a moment that he had traded Garland for the 3 guys mentioned. Then what if he turned around and traded Hirsh & say McCulloch & Owens to the DRays for Baldelli?

Sox end up with Contreras-Vazquez-Buehrle-McCarthy with Floyd/Buchholz/Gio/Broadway/Haeger battling for the 5th starter and slots in the 'pen, and Baldelli leads off and plays LF (or CF if Anderson struggles with Pods coming into LF).

The point is that there's a lot left to be done, and a lot of options still on the table. I don't think he got the best return he could have for Freddy, but the sky is by no means falling.

JB98

12-07-2006, 04:31 PM

Assume for a moment that he had traded Garland for the 3 guys mentioned. Then what if he turned around and traded Hirsh & say McCulloch & Owens to the DRays for Baldelli?

Sox end up with Contreras-Vazquez-Buehrle-McCarthy with Floyd/Buchholz/Gio/Broadway/Haeger battling for the 5th starter and slots in the 'pen, and Baldelli leads off and plays LF (or CF if Anderson struggles with Pods coming into LF).

The point is that there's a lot left to be done, and a lot of options still on the table. I don't think he got the best return he could have for Freddy, but the sky is by no means falling.

I'd still be pissed because Garland is 36-17 the last two years. I'm much more confident in him for 2007 than I am in Contreras or Buerhle. I think Jon should be the Opening Day starter. You don't trade the winningest pitcher in the league over the course of the last two years when you're trying to win a pennant right now.

Ol' No. 2

12-07-2006, 04:32 PM

Assume for a moment that he had traded Garland for the 3 guys mentioned. Then what if he turned around and traded Hirsh & say McCulloch & Owens to the DRays for Baldelli?

Sox end up with Contreras-Vazquez-Buehrle-McCarthy with Floyd/Buchholz/Gio/Broadway/Haeger battling for the 5th starter and slots in the 'pen, and Baldelli leads off and plays LF (or CF if Anderson struggles with Pods coming into LF).

The point is that there's a lot left to be done, and a lot of options still on the table. I don't think he got the best return he could have for Freddy, but the sky is by no means falling.I would not like that. It's back to the days of 5th starter by committee. Moving Garcia to make room for McCarthy was an obvious move, but please, Kenny, DO NOT trade any more of your starters.

Heffalump

12-07-2006, 04:32 PM

So you're happy that we traded a guy you can count on for 30 starts, 200 innings and roughly 15 wins every year for prospects that likely won't help us in 2007? It's your funeral.

Yeah, we still have a rotation that consists of five starters, but we still have two gaping holes in the outfield, question marks in the bullpen and a question mark for a leadoff hitter. And our biggest piece to trade this offseason has already been dealt. Thrillsville. At best, we're the same team we were last year. Good enough to compete, but not good enough to win.

KW better have something else up his sleeve, and it better not be trading Garland.

I have to agree that K-Dub's '07 plan of attack does not make any sense to me. Everyone saw the Garcia trade coming as a way to clear a spot for McCarthy, but many people (I for one) thought we should have gotten more for him.

If this supposed Garland trade was true, it makes absolutely ZERO sense to me. We aren't in rebuilding mode, trading away studs for a bunch of "could be's" and "won't be's". We should be tweaking the roster to make an 2007 run!! OR if you HAVE to trade away proven veterans for prospects, make sure you are getting a few mega-studs - not some used and abused projects!

I still trust in KW, but I wish he would give us a clearer picture of his goals for '07.

How long until Opening Day???

oeo

12-07-2006, 04:33 PM

This offseason has been garbage so far. As of now, our team is only worse than last year.

How so?

Some of you are acting like we've made major changes...we haven't. This is still basically the same team (except I think McCarthy can put up better numbers than Garcia did last year). We're not any worse, we've only improved the future of the team.

DeuceUnit

12-07-2006, 04:41 PM

How so?

Some of you are acting like we've made major changes...we haven't. This is still basically the same team (except I think McCarthy can put up better numbers than Garcia did last year). We're not any worse, we've only improved the future of the team.

McCarthy is not going to have the endurance to go an entire season like Freddy would. When Gil Meche is going to be making over 10 million a year the LEAST we could have done is gone and gotten a major league ready ballplayer and upgraded at either short, or center or left field.

oeo

12-07-2006, 04:46 PM

McCarthy is not going to have the endurance to go an entire season like Freddy would. When Gil Meche is going to be making over 10 million a year the LEAST we could have done is gone and gotten a major league ready ballplayer and upgraded at either short, or center or left field.

But we don't know that. That's the way it looked, which does not necessarily mean that's what we could have gotten. Kenny said this was the best offer he got, and I believe him; not a bunch of stiffs that were spreading rumors about Baldelli, Wells, A-Rod, etc.

If that was the market for him, that was the market; Kenny had to get something for him now. I like the deal, and I think a lot of you will end up agreeing down the road.

JB98

12-07-2006, 04:54 PM

I would not like that. It's back to the days of 5th starter by committee. Moving Garcia to make room for McCarthy was an obvious move, but please, Kenny, DO NOT trade any more of your starters.

Amen. We can argue about whether we got decent value for Garcia. I personally don't think we did. Regardless, I strongly feel that trading another one of our starters would be a white flag for 2007.

santo=dorf

12-07-2006, 04:55 PM

If we get Hirsh, great deal.
I agree, BUT only if they move Taveras for something else. We shouldn't waste a roster spot for a speedy guy, and our OF scenario would be a joke.

Ol' No. 2

12-07-2006, 04:56 PM

Amen. We can argue about whether we got decent value for Garcia. I personally don't think we did. Regardless, I strongly feel that trading another one of our starters would be a white flag for 2007.I'm assuming the rumored Garland deal was something Kenny was working on in case the Garcia trade went sour. And I doubt he'd have traded Garland for just Tavarez and Buchholz in any case.

JB98

12-07-2006, 04:57 PM

But we don't know that. That's the way it looked, which does not necessarily mean that's what we could have gotten. Kenny said this was the best offer he got, and I believe him; not a bunch of stiffs that were spreading rumors about Baldelli, Wells, A-Rod, etc.

If that was the market for him, that was the market; Kenny had to get something for him now. I like the deal, and I think a lot of you will end up agreeing down the road.

Here's the thing though: Kenny went on and on about not necessarily needing to make a trade. And I agreed with that. Now, you say "Kenny had to get something for him now." That's disingenous. What happened to us dealing from a position of strength?

We didn't HAVE to do anything. It's supposed to be a seller's market for pitching.

Craig Grebeck

12-07-2006, 05:00 PM

I agree, BUT only if they move Taveras for something else. We shouldn't waste a roster spot for a speedy guy, and our OF scenario would be a joke.
QFT

Flight #24

12-07-2006, 05:00 PM

I'm assuming the rumored Garland deal was something Kenny was working on in case the Garcia trade went sour. And I doubt he'd have traded Garland for just Tavarez and Buchholz in any case.

I'm pretty sure all the reports have now been updated that the deal that fell through was Tavares, Hirsh, & Buchholz. Which, while I think it's not enough for Jon, is at least a halfway reasonable return. Remove Hirsh and theonly question is what exactly Kenny is doing in the pictures the Houston GM has of him.

MRM

12-07-2006, 05:01 PM

Yeah, we still have a rotation that consists of five starters, but we still have two gaping holes in the outfield, question marks in the bullpen and a question mark for a leadoff hitter. And our biggest piece to trade this offseason has already been dealt. Thrillsville. At best, we're the same team we were last year. Good enough to compete, but not good enough to win.

Step back off the ledge. It's not THAT bad. There are NOT "two gaping holes in the outfield". The LF was the LF AND lead off man on the freakin world series winning team just over a year ago. The CF was a rookie last year who has always produced offensively in the past and plays GG caliber defense. The offense was 3rd in all of baseball in runs scored. Throwing Pods and Anderson under the bus doesn't address what the REAL problems with the team are.

As for not good enough to win, the '06 White Sox won more games than the '06 World Series champs did. And they did it in the best division in baseball, unbalanced schedule and all. How often does a team win 90 games and not make the playoffs? Not very.

That said, THIS rumor is easily the worst I've heard yet. No way Kenny trades Garland, who still has 2 years left on his deal, for those two spare parts.

Craig Grebeck

12-07-2006, 05:05 PM

Step back off the ledge. It's not THAT bad. There are NOT "two gaping holes in the outfield". The LF was the LF AND lead off man on the freakin world series winning team just over a year ago. The CF was a rookie last year who has always produced offensively in the past and plays GG caliber defense. The offense was 3rd in all of baseball in runs scored. Throwing Pods and Anderson under the bus doesn't address what the REAL problems with the team are.

As for not good enough to win, the '06 White Sox won more games than the '06 World Series champs did. And they did it in the best division in baseball, unbalanced schedule and all. How often does a team win 90 games and not make the playoffs? Not very.

That said, THIS rumor is easily the worst I've heard yet. No way Kenny trades Garland, who still has 2 years left on his deal, for those two spare parts.
You're forgetting Hirsh, one of the best and most developed SP prospects in baseball.

JB98

12-07-2006, 05:08 PM

You're forgetting Hirsh, one of the best and most developed SP prospects in baseball.

And he can stay in Houston for all I care.

Ol' No. 2

12-07-2006, 05:09 PM

I'm pretty sure all the reports have now been updated that the deal that fell through was Tavares, Hirsh, & Buchholz. Which, while I think it's not enough for Jon, is at least a halfway reasonable return. Remove Hirsh and theonly question is what exactly Kenny is doing in the pictures the Houston GM has of him.But even at that, it represents a return to having only four quality starters and praying for rain every fifth day. Moving one starter to make room for McCarthy is one thing. Moving a second and hoping some combination of Floyd/Haegar/Buchholz/whoever steps up...been there, done that.

oeo

12-07-2006, 05:12 PM

Here's the thing though: Kenny went on and on about not necessarily needing to make a trade. And I agreed with that. Now, you say "Kenny had to get something for him now." That's disingenous. What happened to us dealing from a position of strength?

We didn't HAVE to do anything. It's supposed to be a seller's market for pitching.

I guess that's where Kenny thought this was a good deal, and I tend to agree with that. I didn't like the idea at first, but after hearing about Gio and how Coop can fix Gavin's mechanics, I'm pretty excited about these two.

This is a team that underachieved last year. You say, "at best" we're the same team as last year. Well, IMO, we're better than last year. Insert McCarthy into the rotation, Pods will I have a better year (that's my opinion), and Anderson will be better. I'll take this current team next year, and say they win 100 games. They won 90 while underachieving, there's no doubt in my mind that this team can't win.

But I also don't think that Kenny is finished yet. He has the same concerns you do, and it doesn't mean the offseason is over because we traded Garcia.