Friday, June 4, 2010

I had a hospital consult yesterday afternoon. So I swung by the doctor's lounge to grab a Diet Coke, and then went to find my patient.

While I was waiting for the elevator, I popped the can open. Unfortunately, it exploded, showering me and the floor with soda.

Shit happens. Oh well. I ran to the bathroom next to the elevator, grabbed a handful of paper towels, and came back to clean up the mess.

As I'm working on it, Dr. Helmsley wanders by, and asks me what happened. I told him my Diet Coke exploded, and so I'm cleaning it up.

He laughed and said "I wouldn't bother. You're a doctor. The hospital pays drudges to do that." Then he walked away.

Screw you, Dr. Helmsley, and anyone else who thinks like that. Just because we have advanced degrees and training, DOESN'T EVER exclude us from normal courtesy. My mother always told me that if I make a mess I should clean it up. Not leave it for someone else to deal with.

And if you think being a doctor , or driving a Porsche, or ANYTHING exempts you from that, then your mother needs to slap the shit out of you.

When I was a student nurse, I was reprimanded for scooping down to wipe up some water that "I" had spilled. I was told by my instructor, that I was a "nurse" and I was to call that "girl" up the hall to come and clean it up!

I apologized for my "behavior," but made a mental note that when I graduated - I would remember my good upbringing.

Hear, hear Dr. Grumpy! I've worked with some Ph.D's (engineering and physics) over the years who have walked around with their noses firmly up in the clouds. Rather than being admired for their smarts, they got called 'Post Hole Diggers' behind their backs!

Another former coworker taught me that Ph.D. *really* stands for "Permanant Head Damage."

I informed him that for every degree you get and every child you have your IQ drops 10 points. He, with a double masters, single Ph.D, and the fifth child then on the way, said, "Crap, I'm about to go negative."

[A rare exception to these rules is yet another former coworker who is dying from an inoperable brain tumor. He's a Ph.D. AND an M.D. (and probably a handful of other things), a good parent, scientist, and manager, the type of person who would likely have given that jerk a good chewing out, and someone the world will be less of a place without.]

I LOVE this post. Well, I love what you said/did, not what the other guy said. I think it is sad when people have attitudes like that. I'm not sure why any human would think they are above any other human and are then not required to have common decency and respect for others. If one of my kids ever said that I would feel like I had failed to teach an important lesson.

Only criticism I have is, if you don't say anything to people like that, nothing changes.

I've never understood how so many docs can be so rude to their coworkers in the hospital. I was always taught that the nurses and housekeeping staff can be your best friends or worst enemies. When I was a med student, an attending I was rounding with threw a chart at a nurse because of some disagreement about documentation or something. I looked at him and said "My mom is a nurse. If I ever see you throw something at a nurse again, I'll make sure it's the last thing you ever throw". He just laughed nervously, but I saw him turn around to avoid me a couple times over the next few years.

My mom is a nurse who teaches high-schoolers interested in health occupations. For the two years that she has her students, she drills this mantra into their heads: if you see it, you own it. And when they see a piece of trash on the hospital floor during their clinical rounds, they put on gloves and dispose of it. When I started working in a hospital, her mantra stuck with me, too. A shame Dr. Helmsley and others like him didn't get similar training.

I did a practical in pathology and naturally helped the assistant to clean the tables between patients/parts of patients. A female(!) doctor came to me and said, sternyl, that I shouldn't o this since it was the assistant's job. As someone aspiring to be a doctor, I'd better behave accordingly. I disliked this woman on the spot (and kept chatting and cleaning with the assistants as I had time).

Back then I realized why there's that famous tension between doctors and The Rest of The Staff(TM). Students with entitlement disease are even worse.

I had a nursing instructor once (the best prof of all my courses to date) who told us the only way we could fail her clinical would be to utter the words "that's not my job" or make a discriminatory/racist statement.

I see these tendencies in my classmates already and grind my teeth seeing very clearly that they will be the Dr. H's of the future.

Dr. Grumpy I always thought you were a good egg, but after this post...well I love ya.

When my husband was hospitalized with serious neurological issues, he got stuff all over the room, even wet himself. His nurses had better stuff to do than change his wet pants or clean up the eggs he dropped on the floor. I took care of everything I could, although they would castigate me if they caught me changing linen or such. But they didn't spend all that time in school to wipe his face (or his butt). I can do that (and his prissy mother wouldn't!). The hospital (SLU Med)is an inner-city trauma center, and I am sure they had people who lacked resources or family to look after. They were all really great to him and our family.In other news- my rudeness for yesterday... We stopped in my mom's quiet neighborhood to buy lemonade from some young children. My husband over-paid for it; he always does. As we were paying the kids, a BMW pulled up behind us. Unable to wait even a few seconds, the Beemer Driver revved his engine and then gunned it past us (only to stop at the stop sign a few feet away), and deeply scowled at all of us. Dude. You are so not as cool as you think you are. Where could you possibly need to go that is worth zooming past small children and generally making an ass out of yourself? My mom always taught me to buy lemonade from little kids. So I tip my glass of sugary tartness to you, Dr. Grumpy!

A few years ago, I was explaining to a vendor who called to check in that I was no longer going to be his contact at the company because I was going back to school. He asked if I was going to get a masters. I said no and when pressed, explained that I already had a doctorate, but like a crazy person I had decided to switch careers, so I was headed to another doctoral program. He then said "I never guessed you had an advanced degree! You're too nice to be a doctor!". I found this a terribly sad reflection of the attitude problem so many seem to develop along their educational paths. A few letters after your name does not make you a better person than anyone else and I cannot understand the mentality that thinks otherwise! As Dave Barry said... "A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter is not a nice person."

Your post may have drummed up a few volunteers to "slap the shit" out of Dr.Helmsley if his mother is unwilling. Not that I'm advocating violence, just offering a reflection on the tone of the comments.

As a critical care nurse, I can assure you the words "He's a jerk, call him anyway and wake him up" are heard in every nurses station in the country. Just the same as "I hate to call him and wake him up. At least he's nice when you wake him up" are also said amongst the night shift RN's. Bad attitudes get their rewards and so do good one's. I guess some people are not secure enough in their own position to respect those who probably deserve it most. I am thankful for the housekeepers, health unit coordinators, phlebotomists, nurse techs and the rest of the staff that makes my job that much easier.

I'm not a doctor, well come to think of it I do have a doctorate, but I don't advertise it...leaving the hospital cafeteria one night, I spilled my cupful of ice in the hall near the elevator. Not seeing anyone in the hallway, I still ran to the nearest restroom for paper towels. Far be it from me to have my little 'mess' cause an injury to one of my co-workers.

(Actually, I was so embarrassed to think that someone might have caught me on a security camera somewhere.)

Architectural principals are the same way. I knew I was at a place that was a keeper when i saw the following: 1. Principal making coffee. 2. Principal putting dishes in the dishwasher. 3. Principal emptying dishwasher. I'd been working for twenty years before i'd ever ever seen such a sight.

Devil's advocate here, but cleaning up that spill probably took more time than a lot of doctors spend talking to their patients. If doctors are, in practice and not just in theory very busy people, I can see his attitude making sense.

Thank you! I used to work with a jerk who thought he could be an a-hole just because he has a master's from Harvard. He yelled a me one day because I refused to lick an envelope for him...and by yell, I mean he threw a fit like a spoiled 5-year old, clenched fists and all. He ended up looking like an idiot before sullying his ivy league tongue with envelope glue.

Thank you, Dr. Grumpy. I'm a nurse and I try always to express my appreciation to "the drudges" around me who make it easier for me to do my job by doing the dirty work. And I do the dirty work myself when it's handier for me to do it, or even when it's not... I once watched a fellow nursing student waiting around for a CNA to come empty a commode -- while she stood around in the patient's room with gloves on. I think she honestly felt that she was too important to do that kind of menial task anymore. I wanted to kick her butt around the unit for it.

I don't expect anyone to kiss my ass for being an RN and I sure as hell don't intend to kiss anyone else's for being a doctor...

Kudos to you, Dr. Grumpy, in a culture where it's always "someone else's job" to do the things that any reasonable person would consider common courtesy. Unfortunately courtesy seems to have gone the way of the dinosaur all too often, and it's nice to see someone who's still got some.

I work with a few people of similar occupation to yours who have that little problem of thinking their advanced degree makes it OK for them to just talk down to people like me and generally behave miserably (after all, they rationalize that I'm "just a coder who doesn't know shit about much of anything", or at least that's how their tone comes across)...they could use some lessons in courtesy, too. Then I get the gracious PA and the doc he works for who both take the time to throw a nice sentiment our way now and again, which greatly helps morale and keeps me from wanting to strangle the nasty types. Thanks for not pulling that power play that's so typical!

You sound like a great doctor and even a better Dad. I bet you'll pass it on to your kids regardless of what they end up doing with their lives (although it may be years before you find out if they absorbed any of it).

Sadly, this is seen in all industries. I had the good luck to work for a Five Diamond resort straight out of culinary school, and I learned three very important things from my chef that I still use even though I'm no longer in that industry: 1) Always treat your cleaning staff well. They can make or break you when things get out of control. 2) If you're in charge - you'd better be capable of doing a halfway decent job of filling in for anyone who works for you. And 3) is exactly what Rena's mom said - if you see it, you own it. And this applied to EVERYONE in the company. It's the only place where I've seen a CEO picking up litter and cleaning up after himself. No matter what I end up doing with my life, I hope I never forget those three things.

And you sir, sound like my old chef, which means you must also be awesome.

Way back in high school days (too long ago to contemplate), I went to Unnamed Fast Food Restaurant with a girlfriend. As we finished our Chock Full O' Sodium and Fat Meals, I went to pick up my tray and dump its contents in the trash.

She said, "Oh, just leave it. That's what they pay these people for."

Can you tell she had a trust fund (another famous statement: "well, I don't *have* to work, but I want to") and I didn't?

I tossed hers too, while her back was turned. And I have spent my adult life overtipping, and going out of my way to compliment people who go out of their way for me, and rewarding hard work -- because, although I have an advanced degree, I have also done my share of time in "menial" jobs.

I wish common courtesy would make a comeback. But thank you, Dr. G, and everyone else who displays it. Maybe if enough of us do it often enough, it'll start a worldwide movement. (A girl can dream, no?)

Jeez - if you werent happily married I think after reading these posts you'd get on line proposals! And what a heck of a lot of commments - gosh- best not let on you also change diapers, fold laundry or open doors! Seriously though, we all love hearing sbout the shmuck you have to work along side - because there's bound to be a great kharma blogstory to avenge this one soon! And I'll bet there were heaps of readers who acted like him - and now will think twice - nice stuff Dr.G.

take the pathways in your hospital that the staff use. learn the faces. learn what they do every day. learn names. have conversations. improve your day and increase your practice. and clean up your mess.

As a newly minted medical "professional" (too new to be professional just yet!!) I have already developed a rather low impression of doctors in general. Most come across as pompous and that they are above all else. Fact is, and I even told a doc this yesterday, just because he is a doctor does NOT make him smarter than anyone else. He may have had opportunities to be exposed to more schooling than others but that does not equate (in my book) to a higher level of intelligence.

This episode proves my point. This doctor has advanced degrees and yet has the intelligence level, and self respect, of a street drunk IMHO. Unfortunately, where I am at this is the norm for doctors too.

My hospital has an unusually low number of restroom so running to the nearest restroom may leave a mess rather unattended.

A few years ago I was walking through the hall with my lunch and ran into one of our new first year family practice residents. He asked me, "What should I do if I just dropped my pudding on the floor?" Carpeted hallway and all, I decided we probably needed to call housekeeping. He waited until the housekeeper showed up and apologized for making the mess and adding to their already busy day. I knew immediately he was going to be one of the "favorites."

As one of the drudges who is working as such to pay her way through school, thank you. Alas, experiences like these happen all the time, and strengthen my resolve to be nice to *everyone* when I get my therapist's license.

You are the best! Docs like you should get an extra attaboy (or girl).

My fave was the specialist who took my isolation cart with one of our patients up to the floor he/she transferred to. Doctor Chief of Specialty didn't have to do it, but he delivered it, not just to the floor, but to the room.

That, my friends, is a real doc...who helps you when you really need it, whether he has to do it, or finds someone to help you by him/herself.

Thank you for being you ! Been in medical office management for years! Theres some truely asshole Docs out there. Always be a real person first - you'll sleep better at night. And your staff will love you for it!

The other doctor was right - he shouldn't be wasting his time mopping a floor, anyone can do that. He should be using his time and energy to save lives, not mop up floors. That's why they hire help to do it, because the hired help can't save lives.

All you idiots supporting the doctor on his hands and knees cleaning the floor are idiots. Classic example of mass idiocy.

You idiots. It's not about having his nose up in the clouds. He shouldn't be wasting his energy cleaning the floors. Every last bit of his energy should go to saving lives.

You want all those people to die so that the hired help has a little less work to do?

The little 8-year old boy's appendix burst, and he died, because the doctor was busy mopping the floor. That little boy died so that the hired help could have an extra cigarette break. You people are saying that's what you want??? What a bunch of dummies!! My god... the internet really brings out the stupid masses.

@Paul: Yes, because every doctor is spending every second darting off to the next emergency. Real medicine isn't like "ER" - hell, the ER isn't even usually like "ER". If it were an emergency situation, Grumpy wouldn't have stopped for a Diet Coke, and Helmsley wouldn't have time to make nasty comments. Plus: calling janitorial takes longer than cleaning it yourself, and additional injuries could result in the meantime. Stop looking for excuses for being a douche.

There's also a high probability that Helmsley, and others like him are the people who complain about the "high cost of labor" in janitorial, etc., while also complaining they only got a 5% increase, etc.

a few years back i was in the hospital for 3 months and when i wrote the letter to the hospital to thank them for all the care they gave me, i included names of doctors, nurses, janitors, therapists, the kitchen staff, etc. all but one person was so nice to me and took care of me. the one janitor when i was in icu talked to me the whole time (i was on a ventilator) about the weather and such ... she could see i was awake. one of my doctors fed me ice to make sure i wouldn't choke. nurses cleaned me up and took such good care of me. the therapists (all different kinds) helped me recover ... my mom had a saying "the best doctor in the world can't do anything without a plumber or electrician"we all work together in this worldgo dr grumpy go!

Think these people magically turn in to a-holes when they get their degrees? Come on, folks!

The title (degree) gets a lot of flak because people with benign personalities and airs of entitlement are drawn to positions of authority. That does not mean every doctor/professor/etc. is going to be a jerk.

I applaud you for that! Just a few days ago I walked into a bathroom stall with half the floor covered in chocolate milk someone hadn't bothered trying to clean up. It wasn't even three feet to the frickin't paper!

Um, sorry everyone but even though his attitude might be bad, Dr. Helmsley was right. Dr. Grumpy shouldn't be spending his time cleaning up diet coke when he could be saving lives. They have people that will mop that up - people that don't know how to save a kid's life - now get back in the O/R before little Timmy's appendix bursts.

What do I think? I think Dr. Grumpy needs to calm down. Helmsley had a good point, even if he was a bit of a jerk about it. Dr. Grumpy should save his energy for treating patients, not cleaning up messes. The janitor can't go consult with a patient, because he's not qualified. Doctors have a responsibility to treat patients, that's what they're paid for, that's why they make the big bucks. Using their time and energy to clean up a mess is simply a waste.

Somebody must have told Dr. Helmsley about this post and he's here trying to defend himself...

(I'm not buying. Should Dr. Grumpy forgo flushing the john because his time is so valuable? Should he have to waste time putting things in the trashbin when he could just throw them on the floor and save his valuable time? According to your logic, Anonymous, the answer is "No"--and I call BS. I bet Mrs. Grumpy would too...)

@Olivia: You missed the point. It doesn't really matter if it's an emergency or not, the emergency situation is just useful to illustrate the point, because it's easier to see the adverse impact. The impact is much larger in emergency situations, but there is still an impact in non-emergency situations. Sure, in real life people are not rushing everywhere, but Doctors should still let the janitors clean up the messes, because doctors are not paid to clean messes.

As for someone else slipping on the mess, it sounds like that is probably not an issue. From how Helmsley was talking it sounds like there are probably drudges close at hand. At most hospitals I've been, there are orderlies all over the place that would be much better qualified than a Doctor to spend their time watching or cleaning messes.

Having said all that, I suppose under the circumstances, if I were Dr. Grumpy (on my way to a non-urgent 'consult'), I almost certainly would have done the same as Dr. Grumpy.

Still, I think Dr. Grumpy's reaction to Helmsley's suggestion is not warranted (except that Helmsley was a bit of a jerk about it.. e.g. he didn't have to use the word 'drudges').

No no... flushing a toilet and throwing something in the trashbin don't take any extra time (not anything over a second, anyway)... and they are expected of anyone. Sounds like you're grasping at straws, to me.

I expect my children to clean up the messes they make and not leave them for others--and I will expect them to do so as grown-ups...no matter HOW much money they make or how important they THINK they are.

The janitor's job is to keep the hospital sanitary--not to pick up after people who think they are too good to clean up after themselves.

IMO, one of the biggest problems in our culture is people who think they are above the rules of law and common courtesy because they have more money than the rest of us. You may think that world is a fine place--I don't. I'm glad Dr. Grumpy doesn't either.

Yeesh... I thought I had said enough, but you are still completely missing the point.

It's not about people thinking they are above the rules, and it's not about them having more money.

IMO, one of the biggest problems in our culture is that most people assume everyone else has bad intentions. People like Helmsley don't necessarily think they are better (although it's possible), they might be just expressing a legitimate point of view.

In this case, Helmsley had a legitimate point. This has nothing to do with your children and them cleaning up their messes. If I am paying a doctor big bucks for his time, do you think I want him to use that time cleaning up messes? No, that's what the janitor is for.

People like you are making the world a worse place to live because you assume that people like Helmsley are rude or impolite when in fact what they are is practical. Not only do you assume he's rude or impolite, but then you rave on and on about it, sometimes so emphatically that you use all caps, and you suggest he should be slapped around by his mother... you sound as though you think what you're saying is gospel, and all these vapid commenters are just eating up the melodrama.

But whatever... it doesn't sound like I'll convince you that it's better for the janitors to clean up the messes. So just tell your doctor to stop worrying about your health, and do something about the state of the hallway floors.

Oops, I meant vacuous, not vapid, and I guess you're not actually Dr. Grumpy, so you didn't rave on and on about it but you're one of the people supporting his ranting, so it amounts to the same thing.

You keep assuming that if a doctor doesn't clean up his own mess, then he/she must think he's more important than everyone else, or too good to clean up after themselves, or whatever.

Sure, it's possible they think that, but what makes you so sure that's what they are thinking? Maybe they are thinking about efficiency. Have you ever heard of efficiency? Do you know what it is? If not, what about value for money? Do you see how it relates to this situation? Or are you going to come back again and say "Helmsley thinks he's better than us!! His mom should beat the crap out of him!!". Can you read Helmsley's mind? If not, how do you know he thinks he and/or other doctors are more important?

Of course, in a sense Doctors ARE more important. If you were stranded on a desert island for the rest of your life, would you rather have a doctor to heal your wounds, or a janitor to keep the beach tidy?

People with skills are more important because they are in greater demand than people without skills. There's no disputing that. But that still doesn't mean the more important people are any 'better' than the non-important people, unless you define what is 'better' in terms of its importance.

Sure, Helmsley probably thinks of himself as more important in that sense, but that doesn't mean he doesn't clean up his own messes while off duty.

When on duty, Doctors are expected to do what they were hired to do.

It's simple math. The hospital pays the janitor much less than the doctor. They don't want the Doctor (or anyone else for that matter) cleaning messes, that's why they hired the janitors. To do it once in a while is okay, but the right thing to do is really to get the janitor to clean it up.

To quote an old poem (Abou Ben Adham): "May your tribe increase!" (by which I mean: more Docs who think/feel like you do.... unless you and the missus have a different idea! :p)---------------------------------"I almost certainly would have done the same as Dr. Grumpy."

Paul - Your own website says: "I am currently working full time as a software developer for the Department of Justice, Canada. I also do freelance work in my spare time."

Kudos to you, your profession and your job.

But, given the fact that you aren't a medical professional and you have NO clue as to the goings on in a hospital, all I'll say is:"Thanks for judging us from your ill-informed soap-box! Have a nice day :-)"

I'm paying for college right now by working one of those low wage "drudge" jobs. I get to wake up insanely early for 7am lecture, clean all sorts of fun stuff directly after lecture with hardly any time to eat in-between, come back dead tired, nuke a bowl of Ramen, and study until my brain rots and demands actual sleep and not just another energy drink. My advice is to be careful because that person you mock now might just be your co-worker tomorrow, or worse, your boss. Or, worse yet-- at a restaurant they might just be the one handling your food... I believe JK Rowling had it right.

"If you want to know what a man’s like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals." -- Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

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