New TACOMA METHOD for Irony and Profit

According to this TNT article the total cost of the Chinese Reconciliation Project in 2008 dollars is 12 Million with a 7 Million dollar budget gap (or pothole). And if you read the teabagger comments on that thread, 12 or 7 Million dollars could fix a lot of potholes... but imagine, instead of building a park to educate the descendants of ignorant white people, we spent that time/money/energy mentoring a child? Right? Wrong. The Tacoma Method is alive and well. Heck, you might be able to actually see the modern incarnation of the New Tacoma Method whilst standing under the reconciled Chinese pagoda even! Turns out, you can make a hefty profit off of the expulsion of immigrant laborers. Would it be funny if the same City Council folks who gave the thumbs up to the Chinese Reconciliation Parkalso gave the double thumbs up to the existence/expansion of the Northwest Detention Center? Yeah, and maybe i'm a Chinese jet pilot.

by NineInchNachos on 7/6/2010 @ 1:24am

already see one typo. dang.

by JesseHillFan on 7/6/2010 @ 6:28am

Good irony there RR about the Chinese Reconciliation Park and the Northwest Detention Center.I think it all has to do about $$$ and profit with the city council.By the way I asked my mother about an old Chinese Smuggling Tunnel in Fircrest.I saw an interesting photo about a filled in tunnel entrance and the Tacoma Public Library.My mom went into one of those tunnel entrances back in the 1930's when she was young.

by fredo on 7/6/2010 @ 7:06am

The irony here is that you don't seem to recognize the difference between expelling groups of people who came here legally (the Chinese of the 1800s) from the expulsion of groups who came here illegally (the aliens incarcerated at the ICE detention center).

The people who oppose spending tax money on Reconciliation Park don't deny that something bad happened. The funds for park construction were supposed to be raised through contributions. How much did you contribute RR and why haven't you contributed more since this issue seems to have burning importance for you?

And why wouldn't a simple monument describing the events have been just as powerful for educating the descendants of "ignorant white people" as this over imagined apology to the Chinese?

Finally, should we have a park of similar scale for every wrong ever done in Tacoma? I think the Japanese were removed during WWII, where's their park? Blacks have been segregated, where's their park? A city employee once used a city issued handgun to blow his wife's brains out. Where's the park to reconcile this wrong? The taxpayers have seen their money spent on frivolous projects of every sort while Tacoma's infrastructure has crumbled. Where's the Taxpayers Reconciliation Park?

by NineInchNachos on 7/6/2010 @ 7:52am

Fredo,
except the expulsion of the Chinese WAS the law of the land. We're a nation of laws after all. The pitchforked mob was just enforcing federal law.

I read your wiki link. It didn't say anything to indicate that the Chinese who were expelled had come to the US illegally.

Your point seems to be that since our society did wrong back in the 1880s that we should stop detaining illegal aliens, but don't let me put words in your mouth. You explain it.

by fredo on 7/6/2010 @ 8:32am

Those Tacomans who think we need to dwell on this miscarriage of justice will be happy to learn that in 1943 the government provided a reconciliation with the Chinese. They passed the Magnusson Act which paved the way for reconciliation. We said we were sorry and now we have lots of Chinese residents. Why belabor the point?

by NineInchNachos on 7/6/2010 @ 10:08am

fredo, you have points worth consideration. let's put those aside for a moment. Here you have listed a lucrative market for some exciting tourist attractions!

3rd Pary Market Research Consultation by Fredo:

1. I think the Japanese were removed during WWII, where's their park?

2. Blacks have been segregated, where's their park?

3. A city employee once used a city issued handgun to blow his wife's brains out. Where's the park to reconcile this wrong?

4. The taxpayers have seen their money spent on frivolous projects of every sort while Tacoma's infrastructure has crumbled. Where's the Taxpayers Reconciliation Park?

Say, RR have you stopped to consider that if the taxpayers end up building this park that people of Chinese ancestry who are residents of Tacoma will be forced to pay for the injustices done to their own ancestors? That would be referred to as "adding insult to injury" In Fredo's world that's too funny.

If Tacomans feel as badly as you seem to think they should...why haven't they donated enough to build the park? Maybe, just maybe, the only people who feel the outrage are you, nachos, and a couple of other people.

by NineInchNachos on 7/6/2010 @ 11:49am

it's a catch 22 my dear fredo.

folks like you who don't want to pay for the CRP and don't see a need for the CRP and who are openly hostile to the idea of a CRP is proof that we need a CRP now more than ever.

* * *

and yes the non-profits in charge could do a better job of raising money.

by Maria on 7/6/2010 @ 12:23pm

The rock sculpture of the expulsion is really beautiful (and what a meaningful way to convey movement). Is that on the site already? I couldn't tell if it was real or a proposal.

I wonder if they had framed this more as an Asian heritage park, celebrating all the diverse Pacific cultures here in the South Sound, still with a monument to the Chinese incident as part of it...would it have received more support? It does seem difficult to raise money or build enthusiasm for a monument to a low point in this region's history.

by fredo on 7/6/2010 @ 12:53pm

"I wonder if they had framed this more as an Asian heritage park, celebrating all the diverse Pacific cultures here in the South Sound, still with a monument to the Chinese incident as part of it...would it have received more support?" maria

Since the current plan received little support, I guess it would be reasonable to answer affirmatively

Here's an irony to Reconciliation Park.

The city council recently went on record in opposition to racial profiling. There was concern that latinos might be assumed to be illegal aliens. Fair enough.

But now we have Reconciliation Park which tries to rewrite history by claiming that the Caucasians of the 1800s were racists. Please review RRs comments to confirm this. Apparently, in a fit of self recrimination, it's OK to engage in racial profiling if it's against the citizens of your own municipality.

Is it ever OK to engage in racial profiling and decry racial profiling at the same time?

by izenmania on 7/6/2010 @ 1:02pm

"I think the Japanese were removed during WWII, where's their park?"

They get the Puyallup Fair.

by NEAL on 7/6/2010 @ 1:22pm

I propose a Fredo Reconciliation of Economic Enterprise Park.

To make up for all the wrongs and mis-justice heaped upon the upper 2 percent of our economic scale.

It will be an homage to the capitalist who has for far to long had their neck under the collective foot of the working man. It would memorialize the days of economic kingdoms. Murals would explain the rise of sentient corporations, from their legal birth to their immortality.

The FREE Park will be a thing of the future, and will charge admission on a sliding scale inversely proportionate to one's income.

How would we fund a FREE Park? Where would it go in Tacoma?

by fredo on 7/6/2010 @ 1:50pm

How would we fund a FREE Park? NEAL

The same way Chinese Reconciliation Park is supposed to be funded, through donations. I imagine the effort to raise money for Fredos Reconciliation of Economic Enterprise (acronym FREE) Park would be about as fruitless as the effort to raise money for CRP. Where's the groundswell of public support for CRP? Don't people realize that their great great grandpa's might have been racists? And sending in a couple hundred bucks will make every thing alright? Good Karma and all that.

Note to council: If people cared about Chinese Reconciliation they would have donated sufficient funding by now. Get it?

Nevertheless, if the CRP is ever completed I hope some of the Chinese who were driven out of town will come back to see it. I would be interested in their observations.

Option one: Sell BootStrap(tm) to the working class. That way when they are down on their luck, they just have to give 'em a pull, and, after a few months, weeks, years or decades, they'll be back on track. We can implement a sales force based on only six of our friends, who each know four people who know two. It's like a fractal, and over time, we can be the hub of the BootStrap(tm)

Option two: Promise a 10 percent return on money, or maybe even just 8 percent. Use the same plan as the BootStrap(tm) but remove the product. Pay the first in with the funds from the last in. We can find ex-Enron or maybe Arthur Anderson employees ... or better yet, Madoff employees to help implement this strategy.

Option three: Create mortgage-backed derivatives based on the value of the FREE Park land. We could short plat the land, maybe into four or five lots ... heck, 100 lots. Take those, and bundle them into large blocks with other mortgages. Because this is a shrine to FREE ENTERPRISE we can assure the investors they are AAA +++ rated bonds. We'll use them as the front for a larger pool of ZZZ ---- rated bonds, so it can be called a AAA pool. We'll set up traunches inside these pools to assure there is a piece for everyone to invest.

There's so many ways to get this shrine off the ground ... let's not give up!

Remember, the FREE Park is not free!

by Maria on 7/6/2010 @ 2:50pm

Thanks, RR. It is a really beautifully designed park. The bridge, monuments, benches, all the nicely sited rocks. Such a shame it's taking so long to finish up.

I guess I feel ambivalent about a park dedicated to a single historic act of racism (even with the accompanying years of racism that preceded and followed).

I do understand the need to document and educate, e.g., there is a valid purpose for the Holocaust museum, preserving parts of the Berlin Wall & the Checkpoint Charlie museum, Mandela's Robben Island jail cell, etc.

[hindsight] A really great way to have made "atonement" for the past wrong (and racist) actions against the Chinese would have been to help fund the Asia Pacific Cultural Center in their former plans to move into the old Tacoma Art Museum. Having a living, Asian-American cultural group presence downtown (sponsoring events, exhibitions, etc.) would have been pretty cool. [/hindsight]

I'm picking up what you're laying down. The park is nice because it can chip away at people who would never step foot into one of those cutural museum things. I'm thinking of folks like our friend Republican by Default... with his deeply troubling... 'why do we need it in the white part of town? why not stick it in the asian neighborhood where it belongs' line of reasoning.

by NineInchNachos on 7/6/2010 @ 3:08pm

@fredo,

the other day I was reading a library book about subversive cartoonists and came across this dude. Has some good points about the 'reverse racism' conundrum faced by libertarians:

I like the reconciliation park. With that said, naming everything after tragic events has the potential to be overdone and make Tacoma some sort of angst filled self loathing depressing psychological dumping ground.

by fredo on 7/6/2010 @ 4:07pm

"naming everything after tragic events has the potential to be overdone and make Tacoma some sort of angst filled self loathing depressing psychological dumping ground". Erik

That should settle it.

by Maria on 7/6/2010 @ 4:08pm

Hmmm, self loathing depressing psychological dumping ground...sounds like a good place for the Unnecessary Teardown of the Luzon Building Park and the Inadvertent Pressure Washing of the Ghost Ad Park.

Fallen bricks scattered around a green granite monolith symbolizing money/development/progress...with a lone tree in the middle...for the Luzon park.

The second would have a spray park strewn with misshapen, artisan blown-glass beer mugs, under a line of blue silk tarps that symbolize the collective human desire to hide mistakes.

by NineInchNachos on 7/6/2010 @ 4:09pm

would make a swell place to hold an anarchist anti-detention center rally. Way more of a political statement than tollefson plaza.

A crazy idea that I think would assist in funding all three mired projects: Open up what you can to the public, now. Make it purty and put up a lovely sign explaining the need for donations. Give people something tangible that they can enjoy now rather than a depressing view of a chain link fence and a feeling of vague fury that it's still like that.

You know, if they even took the fence down and mowed the lawn at McCarver, that might be a start.

I know that might involve a little tweaking of the plans, but you know what, just do it.

Marty, good posting, but my list of parties who experienced an injustice and need a reconciliation park was not exhaustive. I merely provided some examples. People used to snear everytime they were handed a canadian coin in their change. This probably made Canadians feel bad. Where's the reconciliation park for the Canadians?

by NEAL on 7/6/2010 @ 5:17pm

Fredo is actually asking, "where's the reconciliation park for the capitalists?"

For the poor explorers who reached this land for God, Glory and Gold ...

by fredo on 7/6/2010 @ 5:32pm

Well Neal, I guess everyone could benefit from a healthy dose of reconciliation. Maybe Tacoma could abandon that stupid "City of Destiny" designation which never really fit anyway, and proclaim ourselves the "City of Reconciliation." City officials and citizens would be encouraged to mope around in prayer shawls chanting to no one in particular, maybe swinging a little incense, lighting candles, praying to the almighty to forgive our fore fathers who, gasp, made some mistakes one time in the past. Oh, and lets borrow some more money from the city pension accounts to pay for all this penance.

People get a grip! We're talking about spending millions in scarce tax funds so RR and a few other people can reconcile themselves with historical footnote.

by morgan on 7/6/2010 @ 9:04pm

Incense gives me headaches.

What are we talking about?

by NineInchNachos on 7/6/2010 @ 9:43pm

one man's historical footnote is another group's ethnic cleansing.

by fredo on 7/6/2010 @ 10:08pm

"one man's historical footnote is another group's ethnic cleansing"

Nachos, you're getting a little confused. I previously stated that the expulsion was wrong. The difference between you and me is that I understand that reconciliation took place with the Magnusson Act and no further observance is necessary or useful. You, OTOH, can only be reconciled by promoting a huge capital project funded with money we don't have.

If the city spends several million more dollars to complete the CRP Mr. Nachos, will you finally feel reconciled? Or is the expulsion a wrong which can never be righted?

by NineInchNachos on 7/6/2010 @ 10:22pm

maybe we're all confused. I want the park and the non-profits in charge to man up, get busy and try something other than crying to the city for more money. but whatever, the important thing is to stick it to old white people who should really be pleading for their lives in front of a FEMA death panel or something, but INSTEAD because Obama is no good with the follow-through we, the REAL INTERNATIONALIST AMERICANS are stuck reading their crappy comments on the TNT. what?

by Mofo from the Hood on 7/6/2010 @ 10:37pm

"No One Deserves Banishment To Portland, Oregon."

• The preceeding message was sponsored by Tacoma Bashers •

by droid116 on 7/7/2010 @ 9:48am

I am pretty happy with "The City of Destiny". It has grown on me mostly because of its longevity. Sort of like given an old (maybe even run down) home historic protection because of its link to the past.

However, "The City of Reconciliation". Hey, that's got a ring to it. I don't believe in the idea that it would mean hand wringing, cloak wearing and perpetual penance. (though I am a believer in showing some degree of penance).

More like, we become the destination point for people to reconcile. Sweet. We could hold peace talks here. Open up a amicable negotiations center.

Think of the draw to the Tacoma Convention Center when diverse groups such as the Tea Party and RR nation come together to work out their differences. Monday Night Raw could still come to the Tacoma Dome, just focus on the settling of disputes instead of the use of folding chairs.

We would have to change Tollefson plaza to "Hug it Out Plaza" though.

by NineInchNachos on 7/7/2010 @ 10:07am

Monster Truck Reconciliation Dome

by fredo on 7/7/2010 @ 10:34am

Good point nachos, maybe Marty could tell us when we might expect the reconciliation park for the little boy killed when the city improperly administered a monster truck show at the Dome?

Similarly, about a hundred years ago a streetcar loaded with passengers crashed because the city improperly administered the street car system. Many people were killed. How many more centuries will pass before they get their reconciliation park?

I cannot reconcile myself to these past injustices unless I see some more multi million dollar reconciliation parks.

by droid116 on 7/7/2010 @ 10:51am

Your being negative again. Positive thinking people. The "City of Reconciliation" could shoot for this record.

"In 2009, what's clearest is the very deep and abiding pride that the local residents have in their city which is why, on Friday, 29 May, nearly 10,000 citizens of Alba Iulia and its surrounding townships gathered in a circle stretching over 3.4 km (2.1 miles) and literally embraced their city. It was the largest group hug ever recorded by Guinness World Records™..."

Make it a fund raiser, get 70,000 people to pony up 100 bucks each for a SPECTACULAR hug and you have covered the costs. It is so simple.

by NineInchNachos on 7/7/2010 @ 12:01pm

a flash mob hug off? hmm.

by Altered Chords on 7/7/2010 @ 12:15pm

"stick it to old white people"

racist and ageist.

Since I am older than you and white, my feelings have been hurt. I demand an Altered Chords reconcilliation park!

by Altered Chords on 7/7/2010 @ 12:19pm

@ Droid116: The Pierce County Center for Dispute Resolution boasts an international arbitrator who has actually been involved in reconciling international disputes.

They are right here in downtown Tacoma on Broadway (700ish).

by Maria on 7/7/2010 @ 12:33pm

@fredo I know you're just trying to make a point, but it's sloppy debate to equate accidental occurrences (even with negligence) to deliberate, premeditated violence.

by fredo on 7/7/2010 @ 12:39pm

The people of Bend Oregon should learn from what we're doing here in Tacoma. Maybe they could start they're own reconciliation project.

I read the links posted regarding the Tacoma expulsions. There really wasn't much violence at all. It was wrong, but the perpetrators are all dead.

The occasions I mentioned resulted in people being killed. You mean those people don't deserve a public demonstration of reconcilation too?

That's pretty cold.

by Marty on 7/7/2010 @ 12:51pm

We could rename the "Godess of Commerce" the "Godess of Reconcilation."

The dome in her hand is for the boy.
The streetcar for those long lost street car passengers.
The cranes are for the labors who have died on the job.
The Native Amercian features for the destruction of the native culture here in Puget Sound.

by NineInchNachos on 7/7/2010 @ 12:54pm

@fredo

it wasn't just 'wrong' it was a 'hate crime wrong' and the people who did it are all dead and that's good... but there are still people around who don't care and that's bad.

Apparently the commenters at the TNT need some kind of "free sandwich reconciliation park" as they are really cheesed about the whole feeding of hungry children crime perpetrated every day in our fair city. We could require children to hand out sandwiches to aggrieved taxpayers.

I never cease to be amazed by TNT commenters. Thanks for the link Tacomama

by fredo on 7/7/2010 @ 1:45pm

We could rename the "Godess (sp) of Commerce" the "Godess (sp) of Reconcilation (sp)."

Let's make sure I understand. The wrongs done to the Chinese and Crystal Judson require multi million dollar capital projects to provide the requisite amount of reconciliation. All other wrongs can be reconciled by welding a prop onto Tacoma's least favorite figural golem. That shows some chutzpah!

by Altered Chords on 7/7/2010 @ 1:54pm

Will Iraq build a Kurdhish reconcilliation park to apologize for Saddam Hussein's extermination of Kurds after his invasion of Kuwait?

by Thorax O'Tool on 7/7/2010 @ 1:55pm

I propose Fredo sponsor a Reconciliation park to atone for all the poor Kangaroos that have been beaten to death.

you sonofabitch I told you I didn't want to see that kangaroo again! good day sir!

by Thorax O'Tool on 7/7/2010 @ 2:10pm

No, you didn't want to see the farting tea bag again. Remember?

by NineInchNachos on 7/7/2010 @ 2:11pm

Will BP build a Reconciliation Gulf of Mexico for killing the ocean and ruining peoples lives?

by NineInchNachos on 7/7/2010 @ 2:12pm

@thorax.... Doh! I'll get you next time!!!

by Thorax O'Tool on 7/7/2010 @ 2:16pm

Actually, I'd love to see a reconciliation Gulf of Mexico.I propose wBP start building it now. As for labor, have every BP exec and the Obama & former Bush Administrations begin immediately and continue without stopping for 225,000 years... with their bare hands.

Reconciliation is not exclusive to saying you are sorry. There are many instances, especially when all parties have differing rationales for their actions, harming others with no intent to harm or atoning for a harm that is recognized but not faulted, that being sorry is not the focal point at all.

Reconciliation is from the Princeton definition "the reestablishing of cordial relations."

As for reconciliation is conflict resolution, it has arbitration, mediation, negotiation and diplomacy as a number of options for action. Not walking around saying I am sorry, sorry, sorry.

In primate studies they show reconciliation behavior in grooming each other after particularly bad fights. That isn't an I'm sorry, it is an "let me get that for you" approach. Showing an act of interest.

But I think changing Tollefson to "Let's Groom Each Other Plaza" is just not feasible.

at any rate the government has reconciled over this matter on many occasions. most notably in 1943 and 1993. At what point can we get past this and just enjoy "cordial relations" Or does dwelling on the negative somehow make for a better society?
And if people feel so bad about this event why hasn't the non-profit organization charged with raising the development money been successful? Obviously, most people either don't care or are already fully reconciled. Why should the taxpayers take an interest if the ordinary citizens won't?

by Altered Chords on 7/7/2010 @ 4:40pm

Why? Because there will be a great park. This is the type of park that can help attract tourists. It will be just one more thing for our Tacoma tourists bureau to put on their website.

"We went to Tacoma to visit our dear uncle Fredo. He took us to the Chinese Reconciliation park and the LeMay automobile museum and we found out that those almond rocca candies are actually made in Tacoma"

Wow Matilda, this Tacoma sure sounds like a place we'd like to visit. Let's book a trip now, or buy a condo there or invest.

by fredo on 7/7/2010 @ 5:06pm

chords, maybe tourists will be attracted to the park. If so maybe Tacoma can make a profit on the Chinese Expulsion. As they say if life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

The park was supposed to be funded by private donations. Here's a quiz to test your Tacoma IQ:

What portion of the $12,000,000 park, which has been in the works for 20 years, has been raised by contributions from the public?

A. 100%B. 66%C. 50%D. 25%E. 8%

by Jesse on 7/8/2010 @ 6:58pm

"All right Goldmember. Don't play the laughing boy. There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch."

--Nigel Powers

by fredo on 7/11/2010 @ 10:03am

Sorry I forgot to provide everyone with the answer to my quiz.

The answer is E. The public has donated $1M towards the $12M park price tag. That equals 8%. I guess people don't feel that bad.

by fredo on 7/11/2010 @ 10:42am

A city employee once used a city issued handgun to blow his wife's brains out. Where's the park to reconcile this wrong?

"-Chrystal Judson Family Justice Center. (one of the leading family justice centers in the nation. )" Marty

Well, the Judson Family Justice Center would have been a good way to reconcile the Brame tragedy. (You will remember that David Brame abused his authority as Tacoma's Chief of Police).

Unfortunately, instead of reconciling our city against the abuse of authority it now stands for abuse of authority itself. An employee of the Center has been accused of using Judson funds as her own personal slush fund. Taxpayers have lost thousands of dollars. The money was even spent to bail criminals out of jail. Now we will need a reconciliation effort to reconcile the wrongs of the Judson Family Justice Center.

Not a problem...when you live in Reconciliation City!

by Thorax O'Tool on 7/12/2010 @ 1:23pm

You cannot make right all the wrongs of the world.
Some really really BIG wrongs need at least an honest attempt at making right again.

I think that a public/private partnership on this park is quite fine, and I am fine with some of the city's $ going to it.

When the park is done, I'll for sure go to see it. And who knows... maybe if the cards are played right, the park could be an attraction. It has that potential.

by fredo on 7/12/2010 @ 1:36pm

Some really really BIG wrongs need at least an honest attempt at making right again. Thorax

So the Magnusson Act of 1943 and the City Council Resolution of 1993 were not honest attempts at reconciling the expulsions? And a hopelessly over-imagined park with little public support would provide an honest attempt at reconciliation?

Wouldn't it have been easier, and less expensive in hindsight, just to rename one of our existing parks "Reconciliation Park" and be done with it? Sometimes the solutions to problems are right there in front of you.

RE: the hope that the park will be an attraction. Almost every dime of public money spent downtown in the last 20 years was spent, in part, because it was going to make our city attractive to outsiders. Hows that working? The $84M convention center was been available for major conventions for almost 7 years. How many major conventions has it hosted? My guess is Zero.

by Thorax O'Tool on 7/12/2010 @ 1:44pm

Meh. You can't please everyone.

by fredo on 7/12/2010 @ 3:35pm

You can't please everyone

Not the city's job to please people.

by Altered Chords on 7/12/2010 @ 4:18pm

Drove from D.T over Ruston Way to Pt. Defiance yesterday w/ kids and g.f. We made an honest attempt to find this stupid park. Tried again on the way back. To no avail.

Where the hell is this damn park??????!!!!!!!!!!!

It's starting to make me angry that I can not find it.

by Erik on 7/12/2010 @ 4:40pm

Where the hell is this damn park??????!!!!!!!!!!!

Right near the entrance to the Chinese tunnels.

by Thorax O'Tool on 7/12/2010 @ 10:22pm

you know the park with the sundial? Just south of it. Next time you're driving on the overpass that takes Schuster over the rr tracks, look towards the water. You'll see it.

by NineInchNachos on 7/12/2010 @ 11:54pm

look for the flimsy chain link fence !

by NineInchNachos on 7/12/2010 @ 11:56pm

Also, today I made a $35 'family' donation to the park's nonprofit. Fredo, please adjust your 8% figure accordingly. I feel less guilty!

by fredo on 7/13/2010 @ 6:55am

Nachos, donation noted.

Now that you're a "Friend of Reconciliation Park" you can be sure of one thing. Your money will spent in an aggressive mail campaign to convince you to send in even more. And if you don't respond to every solicitation you will feel increasingly guilty. In the end, you will be trapped in an inescapable cycle of guilt and reconciliation from which there is no escape....sir, you've just entered...the twilight zone.

by NineInchNachos on 7/13/2010 @ 7:53am

ha!

by NineInchNachos on 7/15/2010 @ 11:00am

The Tacoma Method is alive and well in Utah

"An anonymous group has distributed a list that is spreading terror and outrage among the Latino community in Utah. The list includes names, addresses, workplaces, phone numbers, birth dates (including 'anchor baby' due dates) and, in some cases, Social Security numbers of some 1,300 people that the group alleges are undocumented. The list was sent to law enforcement officials, state lawmakers and the media, and urges that those on the list be immediately deported. "

Those who are named can easily refute the listing. Just provide the appropriate citizenship papers and the problem is solved.

Hardly think listing the names of illegal aliens is the modern day equivalent of the Tacoma Method of eliminating lawful immigrants.

Illegals who don't like the listing (which is "spreading terror and outrage"-give me a break) have an appropriate remedy. They can return to their homelands.

by NineInchNachos on 7/15/2010 @ 12:45pm

We're a nation of laws remember? List is proof of serious breach of database security. Cowardly attack, people being targeted can't even face their accusers. Mob rule mentality of the 1880's. What if your wife and kids were on that list fredo? Would you still side with the nazis?

by fredo on 7/15/2010 @ 12:55pm

List is proof of serious breach of database security.

Residency is proof of a serious breach of border security.

If my family members were illegals and they were listed I would immediately send them home and offer an apology to the fine people of Utah.

The listing may be wrong but I think it is to be expected given the lax attitude toward border security. We are going to be seeing more of this sort of thing.

by The Jinxmedic on 7/15/2010 @ 2:08pm

Kind of like those folk in California that lost their jobs, had their businesses picketed, were physically assaulted, and had their cars and homes vandalized- all because their names and addresses were released and published after signing a proposition, - an act which would normally be considered part of the legal political process, and is a right under the law.

I no longer sign referendums. The nazis have won.

(We are three steps away from some really, really bad stuff happening.)

by NineInchNachos on 7/15/2010 @ 2:28pm

Our own Rob McKenna fought and won the right to KEEP petition signers in the public domain. I see a huge difference here with some anonymous 'black list'

by fredo on 7/15/2010 @ 3:26pm

I no longer sign referendums. The nazis have won. Jinx

It was the left that pushed for disclosure on the R-71 petition signers. Are you saying that the left is a group made up of nazis?

by NineInchNachos on 7/15/2010 @ 3:33pm

there is where it gets confusing. In Utah where the evil republicans are the majority, the lefties were against signature releases.

interesting observation..

the Right wants to discriminate against race and sexual orientation (like nazis) and the Left gets accused by the Right for being like nazis because of 'socialszim'

by fredo on 7/15/2010 @ 3:43pm

the Right wants to discriminate against race Nachos

what race are illegal aliens?

by The Jinxmedic on 7/15/2010 @ 4:00pm

Nazis were socialists!

Heh- take the bait, come a little closer, almost there... ...stay on target...

and your point is.. that Tacoma's civic leaders are continuing in their time-honored tradition of sloppy law making and churlish theatrics?

by STFU (See the Future Unveiled) on 2/17/2011 @ 7:21pm

I am astounded at how much time and energy people waste on Fredo (I hope it's OK to capitalize the name - he's clearly not going for a bell hooks-style social statement). He (I assume it's a he) is one of the least clever, least insightful, generally boring and stupid voices I've encountered as part of any public discourse.

Hey Fredo - what say you and I meet in public for a debate? You can choose the subject, the venue, the format and the judges. I don't even want to know the subject is until I arrive. You'll have all the advantage. We can even YouTube it.

I'm dead serious.

Are you?

by Mofo from the Hood on 2/17/2011 @ 7:44pm

After reading the three links posted by NIN (particularly useful was the Tacoma Daily Index), I have gained an increased understanding of why serious businessmen flee Tacoma. Here we have a collection of City Councilmen who decide issues based on their feelings. To paraphrase one of the emotional members: "You Go Girls!"

by fredo on 2/17/2011 @ 8:12pm

"I am astounded at how much time and energy people waste on Fredo"

Heh, I've heard it before.

I just enjoy posting commentary on local topics. It doesn't matter to me if people agree with my POV or enjoy the comments. Any person with half a brain who doesn't like my postings would be expected to ignore them. All my comments have an avatar with the expression "by Fredo" right underneath. Just skip them and you'll be a happier person.

Sorry, I'll have to decline your kind invitation.

by NineInchNachos on 2/17/2011 @ 8:30pm

Fredo is OK. He just plays a funny Libertarian TEA party character much like Sacha Baron Cohen's Ali G.

In real life he's actually kind. He donates real money to CLAW whenever we have a fund raiser and someday his daughters will be mighty liberal cartoonists!

by jenyum on 2/17/2011 @ 8:46pm

Fredo is a lot more interesting and articulate (and even internally consistent) than the horde over at the TNT. Anyway, sometimes I think the conversation around here would just die out completely without somebody to stir the pot.

by NineInchNachos on 2/17/2011 @ 8:57pm

Yeah most of the time it's Fredo vs. Feed tacoma with Jinx, Mofo and Thorax being the swing vote.

by NineInchNachos on 2/17/2011 @ 9:01pm

the feed would be really sad without him.

by Mofo from the Hood on 2/17/2011 @ 10:44pm

As long as Fredo generates topics on FeedTacoma I feel no need to read newsprint voter's guides or view the City of Tacoma website.

As long as NIN posts anything, I'm convinced that visual or verbal commentary doesn't have to be true; it just has to be interesting.

by fredo on 2/18/2011 @ 10:06am

Thanks for the supportive comments. I'll try to be less boring, stupid and uninsightful in the future, but given my limited intellect and writing skills it may be tough.

The comments I read are not harmless, or interesting. Outside this little cyber-clique, most of the comments issued by this fellow distort and degrade the issues; denigrate people and groups of people in a way that I consider destructive; and contribute to an ongoing trend in online discourse that I'm fairly certain is slowing the evolution of the human species.

It's not Tribune Forum bad, but it's bad enough.

Yes, I could ignore him. And yes, I understand that small people like to play big bad wolf from the safety of their home office.

And I love a nicely stirred pot, as long as it's clever, insightful and at least appears to be intended for betterment of some kind.

But all I see are these seemingly angry, ham-handed swipes at complex issues that most people commenting clearly don't understand. It's like reading the rantings of one of those bumbling Dreamworks super-villians, only not as funny.

Like the vast majority of people who read this blog, I only know the persona I encounter online. He may very well be a kind, middle-American office worker who funds the dreams of Fez-wearing cartoon hucksters. But I wouldn't know that unless I met him.

That's why I extended the invitation. That, and I wanted to see if you blogging bad-asses were harboring any courage or conviction in the "real life" that Mr. Nachos mentions.

So far, all I see is further evidence of another self-aggrandizing, masturbatory cute contest that no one is really winning.

Hey Mofo from the Hood!

How about you?

You look like a bad ass.

by fredo on 2/20/2011 @ 5:34pm

The topic of this thread is "New Tacoma Method for Irony and Profit" and was posted by RR Anderson on July 10, 2010 . It's generally considered good form to make sure comments relate to the topic. If you ever begin a thread, such as on the topic of blogging, I'm sure you will appreciate commenters who follow this convention.

by jenyum on 2/20/2011 @ 6:28pm

If people are upset they should stop lurking and say something. If it seems like we just think we're all here for your entertainment and we are sooooooo wrong about that, then freaking say something every now and again. And I don't mean come in here and pile on Fredo, but actually stop Facebooking for 10 minutes and contribute something substantive.

by Mofo from the Hood on 2/20/2011 @ 6:56pm

STFU, have you considered calling Seattle television station KOMO? They'll send a reporter right over to you. They're all about going nowhere and doing nothing.

by cisserosmiley on 2/20/2011 @ 7:08pm

fredo has useful perspectives occasionally, and endevours for facts, a trait near to my heart. when stfu posts facts i will reconsider my point of view. until then read this book about people publicly voicing minority opinion and why.
www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=978...

by NineInchNachos on 2/20/2011 @ 9:09pm

Q: Are we not men?
A: We are devo.

Welcome to the future STFU, we're glad you made it!

by Marty on 2/20/2011 @ 11:58pm

@ See The Future Unveiled

I'll accept your generous offer, I do so enjoy public debate.

This Friday @ noon.
@ Amocat Cafe.
Forum Style.

For topics I was going suggest European Socialism, but then I thought to myself " It's on European Socialism. I mean, really, what's the point? I'm not European. I don't plan on being European. So, who gives a crap if they're Socialists? They could be fascist anarchists, it still wouldn't change the fact that I don't own a car."

Sorry I missed the offers fellas. Had some 3-d, using-all-five-of-my-senses, visceral life stuff that took precedence.

Way to hide behind forum rules, Fredo. I would love to post this in my own forum, but it seems to be blocked or broken.

@Jenyum - Your posts are generally respectable. I am changing my screen name to One Man Pile. I contribute substantially to public conversation all the time. At significant length.

@ Mofo - So is that a no, Mofo?

@ cisserosmiley - Book dropping - it's the new name dropping, only more pretentious and gay. This doesn't appear to be a factual discussion as much as a string of cliched value judgments, sprinkled with facts for effect.

@ Nine Inch Dick Anderson - You're not even close to as cool as Devo. Not even close.

Marty, Dick, let's reschedule. I need at least a week in advance, as I am a fairly busy guy.

by NineInchNachos on 3/8/2011 @ 10:29am

STFU. I hope you realize one of my 'R's stands for Richard which any educated person knows is Dick for short.

Now who is the "Dick" eh? Me!

by cisserosmiley on 3/8/2011 @ 11:06am

i think you are trying to insult me but...you should read more if you want to be more informed: stop using anti-homosexual name calling because it is a hate crime and not insulting; if sprinkling my values with facts while discussing tacoma is wrong...then i do not want to be correct. anyway, i will write this to you because everyone knows it is what you are waiting for. go the fuck away and come back with a different avatar when you can contribute. i am sorry that what you have done the past couple weeks makes you the least important contributer here. read a little and write what you feel not some cliched rally of insults, then we would be curious to hear from whoever you become. i will be forwarding this post to all the local "gay" political leaders because we obviously still have a huge bigot problem in tacoma.

by NineInchNachos on 3/25/2011 @ 11:47pm

wasn't sure if this fit better under the Tim Smith action figure or here, but here is some genuine quality investigative journalism happening over at NPR the most non-partisan news organization on the planet....

In addition to security cameras, maybe a sign warning people that it's fragile? While it does sound stupid it doesn't actually sound like vandalism. (Especially considering how much it must have hurt coming down.)

anyone interested in making the NWDC on the #tacoma tideflats a more humane for profit prison ? www.nwdcroundtable.org

by JoeAtkinson on 9/27/2012 @ 10:02pm

Would've been nice if we could have spent those millions on a community pool, a world-class skate park, or something big to put Tacoma on the map & attract new families to fill our declining schools!

by JoeAtkinson on 9/27/2012 @ 10:06pm

by low bar on 9/27/2012 @ 10:12pm

I thought that was what the Lemay Car museum was for.

Would have been nice to have a giant museum filled with tribal artifacts. The First People are grossly under represented in Tacoma's culture. I mean, Tacoma's VERY NAME is derived from the First People.

Distractions distractions.

Tacoma needs to attract international attention. Seattle attracts international attention. Its a November Bravo.

by JoeAtkinson on 9/27/2012 @ 10:27pm

"Even the rocks, which seem to be dumb and dead as the swelter in the sun along the silent shore, thrill with memories of stirring events connected with the lives of my people, and the very dust upon which you now stand responds more lovingly to their footsteps than yours, because it is rich with the blood of our ancestors, and our bare feet are conscious of the sympathetic touch."

"Across the tideflats at the point of land jutting out from the hill near the present Interurban bridge over the Puyallup River was an Indian cemetery. In those days the Indians did not bury ; they placed their dead in the trees, wrapped in cedar bark tightly bound witli cedar ropes. The ground about the place was covered with human bones. Carrion birds and wolves fed in the forbid- ding spot. The whites in the neighborhood objected to this form of interment and compelled the Indians to bury in the earth.

Mrs. C. H. Stoltenberg, now living at Clover Park, well remembers this grewsome spot. She was Annie E., daughter of A. W. Stewart, wagonmaker and carpenter in government employ on the reservation. The members of the family used to look out of the cabin door on moonlight nights to see the bodies resting in the trees with their loosened cerements flapping in the wind. Mrs. Stoltenberg was just a little girl, but she visited the cemetery several times, saw many beads and other trinkets scat- tered about, and there were many bones as well as occasional pieces of flesh. If a body fell from a tree, even a day after it was placed there, the Indians did not put it back. Stewart and his neighbors persuaded the Indians to quit the practice.

The Indians called this burying ground "Sblook." The slougii that ran in front of it they knew as "Tahowlks," which means, literally, "missing the nose." In times of high water the water from the Puyallup River backed into the slough, and decade after decade it was a romping place for the Indian boys and girls. INIany of the Indians now living swam there.

The main, or Galliher, creek at the head of the bay, one of the two that ran the wheel of the old De Lin mill, was known as "Wad-hum-shum," derived from the word "swad-hums," mean- ing "the people who inhabit the plains." In the early days the Indians from east of the mountains used the trail through the gulch which the Tacoma Eastern Railroad now uses in their passing to and fro. And where the creek entered the bay was a great Indian landing place.

The high point where the Tacoma Hotel now stands was known as "Tah-too-sul," which means to beckon, to flag, or make signal to. The eminence was an Indian signal station.

All about the large "Medicine house" which stood on the spit, were the drying and smoking racks where the Indians prepared their fish.

Prized among the Indians was a great rock, some seven or eight feet in height, which lay on the beach now covered by the Half Moon yards, and which carelessly was covered when the railroad company made the fill there. Its surface bore the figure of a man, not clear in places, to be sure, but distinct enough for the Indians to declare that it was the work of "The Changer" â€” the mythical almighty who sometime in the far past, had worked among inanimate, as well as animate, things, w onderful miracles.

Men had been turned into birds and trees and stones. A human being had been converted into Mount Tacoma. The stone on the beach once had been a man. The Indians venerated it. This stone has been described as a hieroglyph, but Jerry Meeker, who saw it many times, says this is not the case. It is believed that in no instance did the Indians west of the Cascades attempt rock carving or rock painting."

by NineInchNachos on 9/28/2012 @ 10:18am

Here is the mention of the native magical "Salish henge" which was pushed off the cliff so many years ago.

"McCarver hurried back to Portland to check with his backers before
signing any papers. When he returned to Shubahlup he brought with him
Lewis Starr, the bank president, himself no tower of financial strength,
and two friends from Oregon City, David Canfield and Thomas Hood.

spacer They camped for a night below the Stadium Way cliff near the foot
of Seventh Street, beside an Indian burial canoe and a boulder marked
with hieroglyphs (a treasure casually buried under debris from the
grading of Pacific Avenue a few years later). Starr was so impressed he
claimed the site, using his brother's name lest he antagonize bank
clients in Portland."