Denny Smith wrote:As for a inexpensive HDMI EVF, the only market for this would really be the new Pocket 4K, all the other mirrorless type mid range cameras, like the GH5/S or Nikon Z, have excellent EVFs built in.

Do you know anyone that uses those built-in EVFs? None of my friends with GH5's or Sony A7-series cameras ever uses them, because they're TOO tiny - and most importantly - unable to be articulated, unlike an external EVF. For photos, the built-ins are perfect. For filming, not so much.

I’d vote for an external HD microOLED EVF for the BMPCC4K. I know, it’ll be almost as expensive as the camera or more if it requires additional mounting bits and pieces. The BMVF on the URSA Mini 4.6K has spoiled me.

Publiching the LeViteZer Loupe as I did was not maybe the smartest way to do for a product. I was prety sure at that time already that it will not be a product as is in traditional meaning. The feedback I have received only strenghtend that thought.

It is a big low cost item, where packing, shipping and handling is big part of the cost. I do not know if the time is ready, but this is prety ideal part for 3D printing. 3D printing also gives freedoms for the desingn that othervice would not be possible.

The needed part is the lens, we will now get a patch of them and rather would sell them in minimum batch of 10 as we do not have systems or resources to handle low cost item shipping. Batch of 10 lenses will be 350 euro VAT 0% including shipping with DHL (to most places) Single lenses will be 60 VAT 0% euro with normal post. They are good quality around 50 mm glass lenses, tested for this application.

This is a hobby project, if we get some income from selling the lenses we will keep updating the design and adjusting it for new devices. For the P4K I will do update in couple of weeks before publishing the printable files and will provide files also for the 5" Video Assit.

Australian Image wrote:In lieu of an EVF not being available, I made one for my field monitor (my preference), but it turned out to be just as cumbersome were it on the camera. Sooner or later someone will come up with a suitable and affordable EVF. The BMPCC4k market demographic won't put up with $1000+ EVFs.

If nothing shows up in the next six months, I'm going for the portkeys. If, it turns out to be good. I find it expensive but I can use it for my 2 cameras. What drives me is that at the moment my p4k's use is severely limited. Shooting events under the sun is a pain, at least for me.

ricardo marty wrote:If nothing shows up in the next six months, I'm going for the portkeys. If, it turns out to be good. I find it expensive but I can use it for my 2 cameras. What drives me is that at the moment my p4k's use is severely limited. Shooting events under the sun is a pain, at least for me.

Ricardo Marty

Agreed about shooting in sun or even cloudy bright can be a pain too with this camera.

I agree about a good useable EVF needs to be separate from the camera, so it’s angle, etc can be set.The built-in EVFs on GH5S, etc only work when you are hand holding the camera up to your eye.The Nikon Z6 is an OLED, with excellent optics, similar in use to a smaller BMD EVF. Taking this smaller OLED tech (still larger than the original Oly Pen EVFs) and building one in an external smaller EVF would be grand. Especially if it could be quickly attached to the camera or cage cold shoe, and still tilt.

But again, demand will need to drive this type of product to market. That said, with the level of BMD sales of the new Pocket 4K, we may get the required demand for such a product, to keep the cost down.Cheers

Unfortunately it’s really not very good. I have used it on multiple occasions. In terms of seeing without light washing out the screen, like most loupes, it is awesome.

However, the lens you look through is plastic and has a weird magnification quality that warps most of the image so you really can’t tell what’s in focus (even center). Center is sharper, but all sides and corners are warped and out of focus.

In addition, it’s really hard to make any changes to screen underneath where the finger access point is. So it’s almost impossible to quickly change many functions. It needs to be redesigned.

Where the cold shoe goes on top to affix the loupe to the Bmpcc4k the paint scratches off and quickly looks even more cheaply built.

Even still, because I am waiting for another loupe to come out, I use this.... but am eager to replace it.

My take on this loupe is that it was seen as something that could cheaply be put out very quickly and it wasn’t thought out very well. It looks like it was a “rushed production” to simply beat other loupe makers to the market for quick sales. Honestly, if they made some “professional tweaks” that really helped it become professional and useable, I’d buy the newer model from them.

So, if they are listening, they should:

1) completely seal off the bottom “finger access opening” and create a hinge that the loupe lifts up on, thereby creating a completely isolated viewing environment.

2) Rubber seals should be put on edges of loupe so contact with screen edges doesn’t scratch the Bmpcc4k or wear poorly over the years, plus it would eliminate even more light leak.

3) Lens or diopter should be made so that it doesn’t warp screen viewing.

4) Loupe should be made another 1/2 inch (?) longer so that you can actually see the entire screen ... as it stands now, the sides are cut off so you have to look more right or more left to check your sides.

5) And that foam rubber eyecup material should be replaced with a material that doesn’t look like it’ll break in several months. After first 2 weeks I used it, the foamy rubber material already had cracks developing on the edges where it folds over.

Also, the eyecup on my loupe has the dried plastic spillover onto the diopter holder. Looks like plastic from a hot glue gun. Again, not so professional feeling

Just want to reiterate this point, I’m coming at this completely objectively.... and I would still buy another loupe from them if they made it professional... as i enjoy supporting those who troubleshoot our problems ... I think any attempt anyone makes to make our lives easier is great! Much appreciated (after all, I’m not going to do it!)

This post wasn’t to rip apart this product.... rather it was just an honest, unbiased assessment of this loupe. I know a lot of people are professionals in this forum, and they look for and hope to find equivalent gear. This post is just to aid you in your search! May the loupe hunt continue!

It's funny, because an inexpensive version does exist, it's just too big. It's the VL35 with loupe, for under $500. I own it, and use it. But the loupe magnets are terrible, and the whole thing is just too large. You'd think it wouldn't be too tough to cobble together a product using tiny, dirt-cheap (but still 18-bit, TFT!) LCD monitors, like the ones sold for Raspberry Pi or Arduino builds...

They want to bloat them with everything available so they can sell it obnoxiously expensive. Of course, there has never been a camera like the p4k so maybe they don't understand. I see the portkeys and others that dont have the capacity to record and yet they have all the tools to correct the image. What are they thinking of?

Australian Image wrote:My 5.7" field monitor is ostensibly smaller than any existing cine EVF and has two HDMI ports, a power port, a headphone jack, plus a variety of controls. Were it not for the screen, the guts of that field monitor could be pretty much put inside a matchbox (or two). A GoPro or Sony action cam wouldn't exist if what you suggest is true

Thank you Ray for your detailed examples. I completely agree with you about a small EVF. One with a HDMI port and maybe a USB-C port to charge a small internal battery would be fine by me. It would turn a not so happy Pocket 4K owner into one who had a SOLUTION for very bright conditions.

- output FHD over HDMI, not depending of what resolution the camera is shooting- output focus peaking and sepras over HDMI when selected from camera.- apply LUT to the HDMI output when selected from the camera.

HDMI is not really ideal for EVF, it should be EVF spesific connection that also provides power. The problem is, thesedays there is camera spesific EVF connections, but no standard on that and I do not think there will be, so the HDMI and separate power remains the only options (also SDI on higher end cameras)

Ideally USB-C could be such connection, maybe in future, but I doupt camera manufacturers will commit to any common standard on that. If we would have that, tablet or phone could also be used as a monitor.

And you could hook a USB-C EVF also to your phone, tabled or computer, that for sure would greate market for such EVF. We probaply see first a VR headset with USB-C interface.

Maybe after such devices are on market, the camera manufacturers have no other option than support them. My bet would be BMD is one of the first companies doing that.

Providing possibility to use iPad as a monitor for P4K using USB-C would be a good start.

Last edited by Kim Janson on Wed May 01, 2019 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Im with Ray on this one. We want a small evf for framing and focus. That’s it. Small enough to bring in a backpack with the p4k. Size matters. All these “small” evf ‘s out there today are really not good enough. We want small, not “small” like a bottle of water. I need that space for a bottle of water. I guess we are just a niche group that the industry don’t care about. Or at least they are not motivated to make such evf. Head scratching.

Oyvind Fiksdal wrote:Im with Ray on this one. We want a small evf for framing and focus. That’s it. Small enough to bring in a backpack with the p4k. Size matters. All these “small” evf ‘s out there today are really not good enough. We want small, not “small” like a bottle of water. I need that space for a bottle of water. I guess we are just a niche group that the industry don’t care about. Or at least they are not motivated to make such evf. Head scratching.

Me too with Ray on this subject completely. I also want small, there is enough 'stuff' to cart about!

I’d like just something simple.... like for the old pocket there was a loupe that attached to a plate, that was hinged for up and down movement, the eye cup could be used, or even taken out for clean screen view, and if you wanted to see from above ... no problem... just flip the top ceiling door down and there was a built in mirror where you could see the screen. It was built by Varavon.

I still have it, and it’s the best compact, multifunctional loupe I have used. Personally, I don’t want more stuff to lug around, like an additional screen, it’s own sunshade or loupe, more batteries, and other parts for attachment (screws, cables, whatever). Tried it, and it’s just to bulky, cumbersome, and sort of defies logic. I would rather do that to my bigger camera system. With the pocket 4K, I just want a great multifunctional loupe like the the old Varavon, because that’s my “quick, pull it out of the bag” true run and gun camera. I think most people would be thrilled with this loupe option and not want more stuff to lug around.

We all know that “somewhere” there is a line between a small camera that should remain light and simple.... and the bigger camera systems that are modded out. That seems to be the gap where the innovators are focusing on. Lots of pressure to produce light, simple, and effective products that are cumbersome.

Not as big and a smaller profile, if at least it were 50% smaller 50% cheaper no shooting tools and less electronics though I can live with those for my other camera or just a pass through so I can use an external monitor if needed,

My 5.7" field monitor is ostensibly smaller than any existing cine EVF...

Well Ray, for starters the original Zacuto Pro EVF is a 3.2-inch screen, with the base unit not much larger, and takes the excellent Zacuto Z-Finder in several configs. I have the Snap version (smallest) and used it with the original Pocket and Micro Cameras, this EVF is still smaller than the Micro camera. Downside, it only go s up to 1080p30, no 60fps Support.

Next the new Zacuto Kameleon EVF, 1080p, Micro-OLED EVF for All Your SDI and HDMI Cameras is only 4.9”(long)x2.75x2.83” and is even smaller than the original EVF and much smaller than you 5.X monitor!It has both SDI and HDMI, and is an investment, like a good lens, that can be used on several cameras, and not limited in its application.

Kim is correct, in that users today (perhaps not you and me) want more features, like scaling, frame guides for every situation, peaking (a feature I do want), and exposure tools. Zacuto tried to market a scaled down version of its Gratical EVF, removing all the extra features, and allowed the buyer to add the features as needed/wanted. It was not a market success, even at the reduced price.

Pull the BMD EVF off it’s oversize mounting brackets, add a mini HDMI and Mini SDI input, small power plug and mounting module on one side, and you have a very small, compact package, similar to what the Wooden Camera mod was, but with the addition of HDMI inputs, and I think you have a winner. Good optics on a EVF with good eye relief, kind of drive how small a good useable EVF can be, and is going to be the largest part of a EVF, as it is on the new Kameleon, which half of its 4.9-inch length is the optics.Cheers

The Zacuto Kameleon at $1,950 is a higher end solution but it’s quite flexible. My only concern besides the price is that the diopter is -1 to +4. I shoot without my glasses and I think I need -1.5. So that just might not work. I imagine they have other diopters that would be stronger for myopia. Of course, the optional diopter likely costs as much as Ray’s suggested small EVF.

Sometimes lots of features is good. When you compare the Kameleon to the Gratical, it actually has some better features such as anti-fog coating. My BMVF often will get foggy in a long interior shoot.

rick.lang wrote:The Zacuto Kameleon at $1,950 is a higher end solution but it’s quite flexible. My only concern besides the price is that the diopter is -1 to +4. I shoot without my glasses and I think I need -1.5. So that just might not work. I imagine they have other diopters that would be stronger for myopia. Of course, the optional diopter likely costs as much as Ray’s suggested small EVF.

Sometimes lots of features is good. When you compare the Kameleon to the Gratical, it actually has some better features such as anti-fog coating. My BMVF often will get foggy in a long interior shoot. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rick, Both Gratical EVFs have the same anti-fog technology. Also the Kameleon has an adjustable diopter (like the BMD EVF) that goes from 0 to + 2/3?, with in between steps to get your 0.5, then add the diopter lens needed for additional correction (“Adjustable diopter ring Drop in diopters for additional correction (+1, +2, +3, +4)”)

Looks like I could get from $200-500 trade in for my EVF Pro model, which is still in good kit.Zacuto still makes the Gratical X with HDMI/SDI inputs and you build the features you want, this keeps the price below $2K. However, the new Kameleon is very tempting, especially if I had the Pocket 4K.

Ray, the space inside the BMD EVF is the needed FFD for the optical block to have the adjustable focus on small OLED screen. Perhaps this space could be reduced with a different optical setup, but this is unknown. The Kameleon is also long (4.9 inches) to allow for the high end optical block and needed FFD space.

Also Ray, the small examples from mirrorless Cameras you show, do not have a power or video boards as part of the actual EVF, as this is being supplied by the components in the camera. You need to add some space for a DC/DC power board and a video driver board to go from the HDMI input to a signal the display can use. This will add space required to make it a useable EVF that is not camera specific. I had a similar setup on my Nikon V3, small plug in EVF that used a 5-pin connection to the camera to get power s d video signals to the actual EVF which was only a small LCD w/processor board and the optical block, everything else was in the camera. This was not an easy EVF for me to use, poor eye relief and something I would not want to spend any length of time using in a video filming situation. Sold the camera in the end.CheersCheers

Last edited by Denny Smith on Thu May 02, 2019 1:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

Ray, There is a point of diminishing returns with optics. The smaller the optical lens elements are, the less eye relief you have and will be harder to look through for more than a few minutes. I have tried shooting a long vid with the EVF on my Oly PenF, after a few minutes, I had a hard time straining to see through the EVF. With thenlarger BMD or Zacuto EVFs, I never had a eye fatigue issue, could look through one for 10-20 minutes, or off and on for normal takes all day. Spend a day shooting news footage with a ENG camera, with a proper EVF, then try the same thing with a small camcorder with its little EVF, and you will see what I mean. Cheers

For that what I posted pefore should be just fine. inexpensive HDMI ro AV converter and this. I may use that for a drone, just for framing. It is analogue signal anyway.

Screenshot 2019-05-02 at 5.54.38.jpg (213.7 KiB) Viewed 10853 times

Just connect analogue video (two wires) and 5V to a USB battery from HDMI converter and the monocular. (two wires) Prety simple, not even necessary to solder, just protect the wires. At your own risk of course. And no gurarantees it will work.

No technical skills really needed. If business case and/or funding exist, people with right skills can be always found.

It is not easy task though, it has been discussed since 2009 (what I briefly Googled) and no solution exist. It probably involves decoding HDMI to some proprietary interface and scaling the resolution and update rate. Not easy at all.

The Side Finder is a nice option, used one on my AF100 and Ursa Broadcast before I got the BMD EVF.However, it can be a little disconcerting at first, if you are not used to looking through (vs looking at) a reflex type finder. But the image is nice and clear, and you scale the image size to suit, plus you get an additional monitor too!Cheers

Denny Smith wrote:The Side Finder is a nice option, used one on my AF100 and Ursa Broadcast before I got the BMD EVF.However, it can be a little disconcerting at first, if you are not used to looking through (vs looking at) a reflex type finder. But the image is nice and clear, and you scale the image size to suit, plus you get an additional monitor too!Cheers

I like eng type shooting. Maybe you can help me decide. I would much appreciate your input. The sidefinder was discontinued in 2016 but they're selling an unused closed box for the same price they had when it was still available. Porkeys is selling a new evf eng type for the same price. What do you think?

I have not tried the PortKey EVF, but have used a SideFi dear setup, which is a little in the bulky side, but lightweight. The PortKey looks interesting, see if you can get one with a return option, if you do not like looking through one. EVFs are kind of a personal thing, based on your vision requirements, experience using EVFs and eye relief for viewing comfort. What I like, you may not. Cheers