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please correct me if im wrong but can we really be sure that itachi did kill uchiha shisui? yes, itachi did have almost complete mastery of the sharingan but someone of shisui's level wouldnt have gone down without a fight and yet there wasn't even a mark on itachi. Also everyone assumes that to obtain the mangekyou sharingan you need to kill your best friend, if that is the case then why did madara and his brother achieve it through work alone? it makes more sense to assume that you obtain it from a mental change or mental anguish in which case itachi would only have to have witnessed his best friends death.

When you think about it its kind of funny that Madara had to kill his best friend then take his brothers eyes just get this upgraded power + the Kyuubi and still loose too Hashrima.

The fact that madara lost against hasirama really does annoy me. However, i think its just because hashirama was very well suited to fight against madara, not necessarily because hes more powerful. Madara might have been overconfident and thus the kyuubi might have been used against him. Onoki mentioned that if madara was at full strength then he should have no problem moving about his plans.

i know that madara and izuna killed their best friends but using the anime as evidence really doesnt mean anything considering it doesnt come from kishi.

The fact that madara lost against hasirama really does annoy me. However, i think its just because hashirama was very well suited to fight against madara, not necessarily because hes more powerful. Madara might have been overconfident and thus the kyuubi might have been used against him. Onoki mentioned that if madara was at full strength then he should have no problem moving about his plans.

i know that madara and izuna killed their best friends but using the anime as evidence really doesnt mean anything considering it doesnt come from kishi.

Yeah. Maybe if Madara took a more subtle or dare I say, ninja approach, he would have had a better chance.

please correct me if im wrong but can we really be sure that itachi did kill uchiha shisui? yes, itachi did have almost complete mastery of the sharingan but someone of shisui's level wouldnt have gone down without a fight and yet there wasn't even a mark on itachi. Also everyone assumes that to obtain the mangekyou sharingan you need to kill your best friend, if that is the case then why did madara and his brother achieve it through work alone? it makes more sense to assume that you obtain it from a mental change or mental anguish in which case itachi would only have to have witnessed his best friends death.

He also killed the entire clan without a mark on him and was still able to use Tsukiyomi twice without any sign of fatigue. I don't really see why Shisui would be a particularly special case, sure he was strong but Itachi has always been able to make short work of powerful opponents. The thing is Itachi told Sasuke that he needed to kill his best friend in order to obtain the Mangekyou, it seems a bit odd that he would say that if he knew of another way of doing it. He says that it is thanks to Shisui that he obtained the Mangekyou so either he killed him or he somehow saw himself as responsible.

Madara and his brother did not achieve the Mangekyou through work alone, Itachi shows Sasuke that they did indeed kill their best friends. Note the blood spatters on the floor. Madara also mentions that he sacrificed friends when he is talking to Sasuke later on.

I TOLD U !!!!!!!!!!!
Look, from the recent chapters, Madara was in control of the kyubi.

Reread my theory below : 1.4th hokage, Jiraiya, and Itachi all said it was Madara who was in control of Kyuubi 16 years ago. The rumor to everyone was that it was a natural incideint, while Madara also says it to Sasuke which is a LIE since its confirmed by the 3rd.
That means everything Madara told Sasuke is true except the attack on the village which means the whole Uchiha massacre was MADARAs fault and not Konoha.

2. A common theme in this book is revenge. Madara got his revenge on Uchiha but not KONOHA yet, thus using Sasuke=so sasuke is a puppet that THINKS KONOHA was responsible for uchiha massacre.
Itachi let Madara get his revenge on Uchiha in return for safety of Konoha..but do u think Madara the ultimate villain is going to FORGIVE...he is still planning to revenge on Konoha breaking the promise.

Also Sasuke doesnt know yet, Madara/Tobi was responsible for the whole Uchiha massacre due to him starting the attack on Village.
Why would Madara attack village with kyubi? To put blame on Uchiha and make Konoha suspicious which worked out exactly in his favor and now even has Sasuke under control by lying just that one simple thing to him.

I TOLD U SO!!!!! WHO was right!!! Everything Madara told Sasuke isn't true. The real reason why Uchiha was massacred was due to Madara attacking the village with 9 tails making the 3 leaders think it was the Uchiha.