A while back, we had a discussion on the blog about the cover art for my princess novels. For the most part, I really like these covers, but they’re not perfect.

Now I could talk about the way women are posed in cover art … or I could show you. I opted for the latter, in part because it helped me to understand it better. I expected posing like Danielle to feel a little weird and unnatural. I did not expect immediate, physical pain from trying (rather unsuccessfully) to do the hip thing she’s got going on.

I recruited my wife to take the pictures, which she kindly did with a minimum of laughter.

Being me, I naturally couldn’t stop there. I headed over to Amazon and grabbed a sampling of book covers, primarily urban fantasy, and spent the evening doing a photoshoot. Click on if you want to see the results (or if you just really want to see a shot of topless Jim).

I’m tempted to use the Night Myst pic as my new author photo.

In all seriousness, I spent the rest of last night with pain running through most of my back. Even the pose in The Shape of Desire, which first struck me as rather low-key, is difficult to imitate and feels really forced. Trying to launch my chest and buttocks in two different directions a la Vicious Grace? Just ow.

To be clear, there’s nothing wrong with being sexual. I can totally see Snow from the princess books flaunting her stuff, for example. But posing like these characters drives home exactly what’s being emphasized and what’s not.

My sense is that most of these covers are supposed to convey strong, sexy heroines, but these are not poses that suggest strength. You can’t fight from these stances. I could barely even walk.

Guys, you should try it sometime. Get someone who won’t laugh at you too much to try to help you match these poses. The physical challenge is far more enlightening than anything I could say. (Wardrobe changes are optional.)

Yep – I think there may be some in-story explanation for *some* of what’s going on there. But even if we ignore the legs, that pose with the swords is (to my eye) rather bizarre, and then there’s the wardrobe…

I’d add to the list – martial artists, contortionists – and dancers could pull off many of these moves.

But it’s really goes to show how much the ‘female figure cover art’ more closely follows the pictures of professional models posing than anything from reality. Most model picture poses are forced and uncomfortable.

There’s a cognitive scientist who has speculated that the female poses men find most attractive are those that exaggerate the positions women find easier to do than men–poses that rely on hips, in particular. The entire point is that a man would look ridiculous trying to do it. That’s what makes it feminine.

I think you just illustrated that far better than the original cognitive scientist.

KJan 20, 2012 @ 13:14:59

Who says women can do these poses more easily? I am a former figure skater; my hips don’t do that. I work with models as a photographer, most of them can hold those poses about as long as Mr Hines did, and they are in just as much pain.

Excellent point, Tara. As a former anthropologist, I should have thought of this point.

To elaborate a little further on my comment earlier that I can get into and stay in these poses easily, I am 55 years old and no longer skinny. However, I do yoga and belly dance, so my muscles aren’t locked into constricted positions as most people’s (especially men’s) are.

And to flip things around, I would look silly too if Jim photographed me in some of the poses men are in on book covers. They emphasize broad shoulders, tallness, strength, and narrow hips.

KathrynJan 11, 2012 @ 10:39:05

I’m laughing a lot, and I think that makes your point all the more poignant.

I think artistic license is allowable (see Stepsister Scheme cover), because obviously artists have their own styles and so on, but there are covers which really take it too far (Urban Fantasy is problem numero uno). I’m fine with posing, but it does tend to look a bit daft at times…

It’s like the artists who insist on drawing boobplate armour – Stop it! It’s ridiculous, and it’s actually dangerous for the wearer. No self-respecting warrior would run into battle with boobplate armour as it directs blows towards the heart, and if you trip you could crack your sternum.

I need to keep better track of the things I read online, because I came across a post a while back from an actual armorer, talking about armor for women. She had made one breasplate that actually conformed to the breasts, for a custom order, and she brought up exactly those points — even though everything is covered, the shape guides the weapon to the center of the chest, and if she falls facefirst on the ground, that groove is going to do nasty things to the sternum…

I’ve got real swords as well, but I also have little kids, so those tend to stay put away

Heather GranJan 11, 2012 @ 10:58:35

LOL!!! Oh my (a la George Takei). Thanks Jim, I needed that.

No one can say you aren’t brave!

With regards to the breastplate armor… almost every self-respecting female fighter I know (in the SCA) straps themselves down before putting on their mostly armor. I do know of one who had the custom work done, but that was a LONG time ago. The most molding I’ve seen done is a slight bump because on normal women, the chest is not the same size as the waist. Most of the ones I know wear leather anyway, and it kinda shapes itself after a while.

LOVE this post! It really puts things into perspective. Not that I didn’t have much the same opinion before seeing this post, but nevertheless, what you did it awesome and really makes a point. I’ve never quite understood why it is that the strong female leads of so many fantasy and urban fantasy novels have to have it demonstrated in cover art by showing off so much skin and striking poses that look like they’re borderline painful sometimes. Sex appeal =/= equal strength.

Lila MihalikJan 11, 2012 @ 11:22:30

Loved it! I’ve always wondered and never had the heart to try it for myself (and I’m a girl) because I knew I wouldn’t be able to do those kind of poses- I’m not exactly stick thin and only slightly nimble!

AnnaJan 11, 2012 @ 11:24:55

I recently bought Ann Aguirre’s Grimspace because the cover showed a strong woman in a reasonable pose. The character’s boots do have a bit of a heel, but at least she isn’t wearing stilettos. The book looked interesting but it was mainly the artist’s work that I wanted to support with my $. I ended up really liking the book and buying the series but it was the great cover that attracted my attention.

“My name is Jim, and I’m about to fall off this couch.” It is A Very Good Thing I’d finished off my cup first, or it would have been a waste of good coffee, as my computer monitor and keyboard have not acquired “the taste”.

Disclaimer: The owner of this website is not responsible for any keyboard damage incurred during the reading of this blog.

Anita K.Jan 11, 2012 @ 11:45:00

That was great!

To be fair, it would help your hip-thrust action if you were built like a woman (it helps to have hips before you thrust them! at least it helps a little, I’m pretty sure my back would also kill me for those poses and I could give you hips and still have plenty left).

My little sister and my girlfriend both actually do sit like the second cover pretty frequently. Though I think the angling of the body is a bit different, so as not to overbalance, and you have to have a somewhat higher and firmer couch than it looks like you are using. They can also both sit flat on the floor with both legs on one side, the way they used to teach girls to sit in skirts.

But yeah, most of those poses just don’t convey anything LIKE “strong and sexy,” but more like “I’m going to die in a minute here because I’m showing off instead of paying attention to my surroundings or WEARING PROPER ATTIRE TO BE FIGHTING IN.” That one is my other pet peeve. How are they going to move in those pants? If they’re going around with a gun why are they not wearing a SHIRT or even a properly supportive garment for their “tracts of land”? If they’re prepared for a fight why did they not tie back their hair?

Reminds me of the movie In Time where even the guys left the cinema muttering that those shoes were insane and that it would have made more sense if the heroine had ditched the heels and put on some boots.

Anita K.Jan 11, 2012 @ 13:05:26

Haha! You definitely should have worn heels! Maybe that would have forced your hips into the weird tiltiness required (at least, that’s one reason I refuse to wear them)…

@Vanades–I frequently feel that way when watching movies, or reading some books. I LOVE it when a heroine actually gets to wear something practical.

Me too ;-D One of the scenes I loved in RED was when Helen Mirren’s character stepped out of her pumps and put combat boots on before she started to blast the bad guys away.

Scenes like that shoudl be in every Action/SF/Fantasy/Horror-movie.

hiraethinJan 11, 2012 @ 17:41:55

While I take your point, and in visual media I can’t help but laugh at woefully unrealistic portrayals. At the same time, cover art has a job to do… and IMO the covers you have criticised are much more eye-catching than those you have noted for their realism.

On my monitor with this resolution, I didn’t actually know the second cover featured a woman. And in defense of Queen of Wands, I didn’t take that pose so much implying strength as being in the middle of some cultural sword dance.

I enjoy and approve of this recent trend of guys recreating art that objectifies women. It helps put things in some pretty stark contrast. Fantasy cover art has a long history of sexual objectification, and it’s good that more folks are aware, and that folks like you give it the ribbing it deserves. I’m tempted to get a photo of myself in such a pose and use it as the official cover art for an e-book. At worst, it’d make a pretty funny limited edition dust jacket.

There’s definitely some in-story stuff going on with the Queen of Wands cover. She seems to be flying/floating, so I can accept the position of the lower body there.

The sword dance … hm. As I understand it, a lot of such dances evolved from combat techniques. I don’t know.

I’m still calling this one out for gratuitous butt crack, though.

VespersJan 11, 2012 @ 18:59:55

As it happens, I’ve read Princess of Wands, the book which Queen of Wands is apparently the sequel to, and I don’t remember much in the way of flying or floating being the sort of things the protagonist gets up to. Also, said protagonist is a soccer mom from the American south, so sword dances aren’t really in her culture

However, the title of the book is a reference to the Wands suite of the tarot deck, so it might well be a reference to the illustration on the Queen of Wands card from some specific deck the author or the artist prefers.

Paula HandleyJan 12, 2012 @ 00:47:07

If you’ve read Princess of Wands, you should remember that the “soccer mom” in question had a great deal of martial arts training. I’m thinking that it has something to do with that more so than either dancing or floating. As for the Author (Ringo) or the Artist (Stephen Hickman), I don’t know if either of them have a preference for any tarot deck. “Queen of Wands” will be book 2 in the “Special Circumstances” series.

This is brilliant. Thank you for doing it. And I feel for you, some of these poses look extremely uncorfortable.

I’m sure publishers have reasons and arguments for depicting women like this but honestly, I’d ratehr have a cover that shows the heroine as she is, i.e. dressed sensibly and standing/moving in a realistic way.

I will say (as I’ve said on your lj before) that having female hips does make some of those poses easier — Danielle’s particularly. (I know some exercises that crunch the muscles being contracted in the Yasmine Galenorn cover, as well, I think.) And I think if you had a wire-fu thing going on and were suspended in nothing for John Ringo’s, the leg positioning might be a little easier.

Which is a long to say that these are still kind of silly ways to stand, even if you’ve got some post-birthing hips action or are Scarlett Johansen (whose poses for the Avengers stuff look remarkably similar to many UF covers)…

This wasn’t much of a workout, but I definitely adjust my dosage before karate and such. It’s interesting … every class before I work out with someone, I have to tell them where my pump plugs in so they don’t hit that spot. (Everything else is fair game.)

TurquiseJan 11, 2012 @ 18:02:28

I know the pain, everytime before my aikido training I have to remind everybody about my own do-not-damage spots… Sometimes it may be pretty annoying.

I haven’t read your work but I’m going to go right out and snap up a couple of your books. The ridiculous posing of women on book covers is something that’s had me gritting my teeth for a long time. I’d rather have a female character dressed sensibly and realistically. And thirteen year old me did (way back when), too.

But here’s a different perspective for you. I’m a professional illustrator (f/sf) and, for me, when I’m making a cover (and I think I speak for a lot of other illustrators out there) the point is to put something down that will grab a browsing persons attention immediately and hold it long enough to get them to pick up your book. It’s gotta stand out of 300 different books on the shelf and it’s gotta pop out enough so that it grabs your attention at Amazon-thumbnail-size image.

So the image becomes whatever I can make LOOK engaging… and that can easily wind you up in contorted poses and back pain…

Hey, whatever gets them to pick up the book!

AlexandraJan 14, 2012 @ 05:38:08

But these covers are a dime a dozen, and so they don’t really stand out a lot. Contorted woman in what is supposed to be a sexy fighting pose? 90 percent of all urban fantasy books…

Many of these have a primarily female readership, too. I can assure you that I don’t pick up new series to try because there’s girls on the cover.

greek_jesterMar 09, 2012 @ 18:19:04

I am female, & have been reading fantasy, sci-fi & horror since I was 12 (& that was decades before that Twilight rubbish).

I can say with all honesty that I tend to skip past covers like those mentioned above as they’re usually the sex-trumps-plotline types. Don’t get me wrong, a little romance or smut can be fun, but I’ve got to give a damn about the plot & the people first.

The only books that I’ve ever picked up to read the blurb purely because of the cover art were one involving a dragon crouched in front of a car with rather startled occupants (it just looked really interesting), & one of the earlier Terry Pratchett novels (Light Fantastic, I believe) because I couldn’t believe the art.

Just thought I’d weigh in: based on the cover, I would not have bought Stepsister Scheme for the exact reasons you emphasize here. But then I saw the post on Metafilter, and someone mentioned that you treat female characters as people, so… I just bought a copy. Looking forward to reading it!

ithilianaJan 11, 2012 @ 15:02:43

Nico: If all the artists/illustrators (a huge percentage of which are men) are trying to have a different look, then why do so many of the covers featuring women all look so alike–look at the ones chosen here–in only one is the woman anywhere fully dressed appropriately for anything, and even there, the contortions make my back hurt to look at them.

Ithiliana: I think you have misunderstood me. I didn’t get into illustrators trying to achieve a “different” look (that’s an entirely different subject, I’d be happy to discuss). I said they are trying to achieve an engaging appearance to the cover.

The way you do that is, firstly, by having an interesting silhouette to the overall image. Squint your eyes at any of the covers above and you’ll see one or two main large shapes popping out. That’s what I mean by a silhouette.

To achieve a grabbing first impression that’s got to be there, and it’s got to be an interesting shape, as well. And a regular pose a lot of times just won’t cut it for achieving that interesting shape needed to inspire interest. Hence the distorted poses.

And your intimation that male sf/f illustrators are chauvinists is totally unfair… you completely forgot to mention the authors.

Deborah BlakeJan 11, 2012 @ 15:15:02

This was wonderful. Hubba hubba.

Also, I’ve just been ranting quietly to myself about cover art this week, so it is very timely.

I just read two wonderful books with lovely covers–except for the fact that the character clearly states that she is flat-chested, and the picture on the cover…not.

The ones that are currently making me crazy, though,are the covers for the last three Patricia Briggs’ “Mercedes Thompson” books. I love these books with a white-hot passion, and the cover picture even looks pretty much how I picture the protagonist. Except for the tattoos depicted covering her entire back, both arms, and a bunch of other places. Tattoos which don’t even stay consistent from book cover to book cover. And which contradict the character’s own statement that she has ONE tattoo, a coyote paw under her navel.

I’m not sure why urban fantasy heroines are so often depicted with massive amounts of body art, but frankly, I’m tired of it. Tattoos don’t make you tough unless you are a biker or a sailor. And then you were probably tough already

The way I heard it explained (I think by Patty’s husband, Mike) was that the tattoos are supposed to give hints as to the story’s plot. They’re not meant to be literal interpretations of what Mercy looks like.

Yasmine GalenornJan 11, 2012 @ 16:13:30

Well, almost all of my characters are inked, usually for magical reasons. And so am I–very heavily, in fact, there’s no way not to see at least some of my tattoos unless I covered neck to foot with gloves. So for my books, the covers portray the characters accurately. Tattoos are not just for those who want to look ‘tough’ but have a long spiritual/magical history.

ROFL…well, um…if you looked like the women in the pictures, it might actually be a little easier. (No, neither do I…so I don’t even attempt those poses!). I do love the UF covers though, and my cover artist is absolutely awesome.

And re: body art, almost ALL of my characters are inked. And so am I–quite heavily.

[...] three-dimensional. Today he posted pictures of himself mimicking the postures from fantasy covers. Head on over to his blog and take a look, but just be warned — if you’re drinking or eating anything while [...]

I think the difference may be partly female vs. male anatomy. All of the poses were easy for me to get into and felt natural, except that I did not try Queen of Wands. As I tried the poses out, I found that when my weight was unevenly distributed over my feet, the hip over the foot with the must weight naturally slid out to the side.

I’d seen the contortionist’s article you linked to at the bottom of your piece, and after it generated an argument with a few of my male friends about how the poses weren’t really that unrealistic, I tried out a few similar stances in the mirror. Even with female hips the bendy-torso shots are excruciating after a short time, and there’s no way you can physically achieve the poses where the character’s top and bottom endowments are given equal coverage, as the bottom is usually impossibly bootylicious due to the exaggerated spine curvatures the figures are given by artists.

I was going to enlist my husband to take a few pictures of me trying some of these for a similar blog article, but you’ve now saved me the pain and effort, as well as doing so in a much more humorous fashion, thanks to being of the opposing gender. My sincerest gratitude to you! (Especially for the saving of the pain part – my right hip hated me for the rest of the evening and part of the next day after contorting myself into just a facsimile of that one pose.)

S. Rune EmersonJan 11, 2012 @ 17:57:58

These pictures are hilarious. This was my first time seeing your website, and I originally came to compliment your Stepsister Scheme series. I especially liked the ending, and Morveren from Mermaid’s Madness…

There’s a tumblr dedicated to pointing out extreme examples of badly posed women in comic art, called escher girls: http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/ The work featured there is much more extreme, and includes drawn images of women who probably don’t have internal organs, and might have severe spinal injuries. Kinda fun to browse through for the anatomy fail.

I used to model, and I quickly learned that what looks good for a camera and in a still frame isn’t usually what feels good. A lot of strange twisting, flexing, and doing things to get interesting angles. It’s harder work than it seems. So some of it might be that a lot of these poses were designed to show off a body more than be realistic.

But yeah, not good for combat at all. Thank you for the pictures, and the laughs. Night Myst should totally be your new author photo!

Graylin FoxJan 11, 2012 @ 18:31:05

I love this. Thank you for pointing out the reality vs. fantasy. And I’d like to thank you for Goblin Quest. I’m not sure my goblin would be as adorable if I hadn’t fallen for yours first.

This is just awesome! It was all over twitter today so I just had to come see what all the fuss was about. So. Funny. I must share this with my readers this weekend. Thanks for the laughs and for reminding us that either a) models are uber flexible or b)photoshop is amazing.

Great post, Jim. I’ve been attempting comic book poses in private for years–never had the guts (although I do have the gut, singular, and the infusion set) to go public.

Ginger JuiceJan 11, 2012 @ 20:35:37

Bravo for trying what so few men have and for straying a little bit further down the path of understanding. If you wish to continue down this perilous path, but with much less physical risk, I suggest you also peruse this link. It is an analysis of the difference between the poses of female and male superheroes. Don’t be drinking anything when you first glance at the link.

I demand to see it!! I actually did the pose, and it wasn’t too bad with no weapon in either hand and using my hands to get balanced. Then I tried it with a gun (not a real one). There’s one cover out there with a lady who has a crossbow doing it. The thing is, it’s way harder to get into position not using your hands and not pointing the weapon at anything you want to keep! Then you have to aim the weapon without falling over…

Come’on. Even without heels, this could be your author photo!!! (Although…although…there’s some good ones above…)

I just tried this pose (without heels though) and managed to get into position without using my hands, but I might have the advantage of several years of ballet-training even though I’m totally out of shape.

Agreed–it’s not too bad if you have some balance. With practice you could probably even get there and up in a hurry. The thing is…why would you? Why not fall flat on your stomach, brace your arms and fire? Why not just crouch down? What’s with the leg out to one side? And if it were ONE cover with the pose, I’d never have noticed. I think I ended up blogging about 4 or 5 such poses–one with a crossbow, one (At Grave’s End) where I don’t know WHAT she’s doing, one with two guns (one in each hand) and one with one gun…it’s WEIRD. The pose isn’t even all that sexy.

The missing link. XD Sorry, but that bit struck me as funny, too. It’s always nice to see female representations as more than anatomical caricatures.

CatJan 11, 2012 @ 21:35:33

Dear Jim, I want to thank you so much for taking the time and physical effort to pose for these photos! I had just come home from a 10 hour day as a nurse at a prison, had a man with no insurance back into me at the gas station, and gotten off the phone as mediator with a fight between my parents when I saw your photos. Thank you very much for the therapeutic hysteria induced by them!!!! I needed to laugh until I cried (especially the one where you show your insulin pump site….nurse-nerd humor deluxe). Thank you again.