What was Sidious's end goal?

After wiping out the jedi and the rebels, what was his ultimate goal? Bring peace to the galaxy? He didn't seem to indulge in materialistic things, so what made life worth living for him?

NewGuy01

Unlimited power.

Kurk

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Unlimited power. To do what with?

NewGuy01

Everything.

Kurk

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Everything. Like? He has everything he wants. Doesn't he get bored?

Zenwolf

Well first he would have to deal with The Vong, since he sensed them as far back as the Clone Wars. But after that, pretty sure that's been said a few times already, become an omnipotent being and go after other galaxies or something.

Kurk

Craving power is pretty meaningless if you don't have any idealist goals you'd like to implement.

DarthAnt66

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The Ellimist

How does Anakin factor into all this? Why would he want a successor then?

DarthAnt66

Lucas states the reason why he wants Anakin is as his personal bodyguard / executioner.

The Ellimist

What if Anakin decides to kill him? It seems like someone who is powerful but unable to surpass him (e.g. Dooku) would make a better fit.

Azronger

The Emperor planned to assimilate the galaxy into his ego, controlling everything and everyone within it, becoming more of a force of nature than an individual being: he would literally become the galaxy. After that he would journey to other galaxies and do the same, as a sort of expansionist entity hellbent on absorbing all of existence into his being. Once the his very name was synonymous with the universe and he would have replaced the Force as the energy field that controls the fates and destinies of all beings and rules of the laws of nature, he would presumably seek to go interdimensional and conquer all the known realities until total and complete omnipotence was attained.

relentless1

he did it for the p u s s y; all that pie in the galaxy

Freedon Nadd

He was a Banite Sith. He craved power for the power's sake. Power itself was the purpose of Bane's Sith. That's why A'Sharad Hett disagreed with Bane's Sith philosophy.

ILS

The Rule of Two was a problem solving system, not a directionless pursuit of power. It was the solution to ending in-fighting and destroying the Jedi once and for all. The founding tenets of the Sith themselves didn't change.

This is elementary stuff.

NewGuy01

The other part of what he said is right, though. Sidious craves power for the sake of it.

The Merchant

Originally posted by Azronger
The Emperor planned to assimilate the galaxy into his ego, controlling everything and everyone within it, becoming more of a force of nature than an individual being: he would literally become the galaxy. After that he would journey to other galaxies and do the same, as a sort of expansionist entity hellbent on absorbing all of existence into his being. Once the his very name was synonymous with the universe and he would have replaced the Force as the energy field that controls the fates and destinies of all beings and rules of the laws of nature, he would presumably seek to go interdimensional and conquer all the known realities until total and complete omnipotence was attained.

Can you sources that discuss this? I know the Dark Empire endnotes talked about it.

Kurk

I just don't find his motives very interesting. Dooku was a political idealist, Vader originally did it to save the ones he loved, Xizor was a materialistic womanizer, Thrawn legitimately enjoyed what he did as a pragmatic, logical person who enjoyed the structure and order the empire brought to the galaxy, the list goes on.

I don't know much about Valkorian, but I'm assuming he too had similar intentions?

To express my question in a another way, here is a similar one from stackexchange:

Let's say that a Sith Lord achieves all of his goals and becomes the ruler of the galaxy (similarly to, for instance, what Palpatine managed to).

Also let's assume that the Sith has killed all the remaining Jedi and has repressed any form of rebellion. It has achieved a state where he has total political control through fear.

On a rather more personal note, he is a being with formidable powers. He basically cannot be defeated in combat since there are no other trained Force users, and his extraordinary abilities cannot generally be matched in a 1-on-1 combat.

On this point, what kind of driving purpose could this Sith have in his life? War is over, fighting and killing seems unnecessary, unless it would do it for fun, which doesn't seem to characterize the Sith though.

What kind of pleasure could he take out of life?

What would he do with the accumulated power? What move "evil" purposes could he start cooking?

Answer:

As with most of my answers on here, I'm going to lean fairly heavily on Legends, as the philosophy of the Sith isn't built out very well in the new canon.

According to the Sith Code, the ultimate goal of the Sith isn't power or domination, but freedom.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion
Through Passion I gain strength
Through Strength I gain Power
Through Power I gain Victory
Through Victory my Chains are Broken
The Force shall Free me

The Sith are all about using power and victory over opponents and obstacles as a vector to personal freedom. The core of the Sith ideology is that any limit imposed on you that inhibits your ability to do what you wish is a shackle, and the only way to break those shackles is the accumulation of power and the domination of anyone who gets in your way. There is no after for a Sith.

Ruling the galaxy isn't actually the goal--nor is defeating the Jedi; both are simply a means to the ultimate end which is, as the Sith code so succinctly states, Freedom.

So let's look at some specific examples like Sidious or Vitiate, who accomplish most or all of their Galactic Domination scheme. They both get close enough to the point you're talking about to be relevant behavior studies. Both Emperors are the unabashed masters of their domain (for a time,) and are functionally unchallenged (for several years, at least). Once that happens, they both turn to conquering the ultimate chain: Death.

Death is seen by the Sith as the final failing of the Weak (expressed as such various times in SWTOR dialogue, KOTOR/II, Darth Bane, Darth Plagueis, etc). To die is to be ultimately powerless, to have your will so thoroughly overridden that you can never hope to express it again.

Logically, then, most Sith Lords atop massive power structures with nearly unlimited power at their fingertips start looking into ways to prolong their life indefinitely; ways to avoid that final failing and ultimate expression of weakness.

So a few quick summary points:

Galactic domination isn't the goal, it's a means to an end

The Sith Code posits that freedom from any restriction is the ultimate goal

A Sith with nearly unlimited power really only faces death as a restriction on his action

So most Sith who 'Win,' as it were, spend their time trying to become immortal.

quanchi112

Tldr;

Kurk

Originally posted by quanchi112
Tldr; What was/is Snoke's ultimate goal?

quanchi112

Originally posted by Kurk
What was/is Snoke's ultimate goal? Galactic domination/control/complete destruction of his enemies.

Kurk

Originally posted by quanchi112
Galactic domination/control/complete destruction of his enemies. And then what? Doesn't sound very original.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Kurk
And then what? Doesn't sound very original. Maintain control of the Galaxy while continuing to destroy his enemies as they arise. Your opinion about originality doesn't matter to me in the slightest. You find cuckolding Sith/Jedi guys interesting I find them both weak and unappealing.

Kurk

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maintain control of the Galaxy while continuing to destroy his enemies as they arise. Your opinion about originality doesn't matter to me in the slightest. You find cuckolding Sith/Jedi guys interesting I find them both weak and unappealing. *yawn*
If my opinion doesn't matter to you why are wasting time responding to it?

quanchi112

Originally posted by Kurk
*yawn*
If my opinion doesn't matter to you why are wasting time responding to it? To address you but in the end arguing about what appeals to you as what appeals to me is an exercise in madness. It would be like arguing the color blue over green and why it's better to you. Most tyrannical dictators want power and control. This isn't some new trait it's always been there in fiction.

Kurk

Everything happens for a reason.

Galan007

"And would not allow himself to be sidetracked from his goal of unlocking the secrets many Sith Masters before him had sought -- the means to harness the powers of the dark side to reshape reality itself; in effect, to fashion a universe of his own creation. Not mere immortality of the sort Plagueis had lusted after, but influence of the ultimate sort."

-Tarkin

quanchi112

Originally posted by Kurk
Everything happens for a reason. Weak minds believe this to be true. Ask any religious zealot my confused and identity/less former apprentice.

Kurk

Originally posted by quanchi112
Weak minds believe this to be true. Ask any religious zealot my confused and identity/less former apprentice. Your white-trash, uneducated identity is showing. Brains are nothing more than chemical reactions, and chemistry happens for a reason. Your skewed interpretations, for example, are due to chemical reactions occurring between receptors and effectors in your mind. It's okay, you can't control it.

The Ellimist

Again, why would he want an apprentice capable of killing him (Anakin) then?

Freedon Nadd

Originally posted by Galan007
"And would not allow himself to be sidetracked from his goal of unlocking the secrets many Sith Masters before him had sought -- the means to harness the powers of the dark side to reshape reality itself; in effect, to fashion a universe of his own creation. Not mere immortality of the sort Plagueis had lusted after, but influence of the ultimate sort."

-Tarkin

Isn't this Disney canon?

Freedon Nadd

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Again, why would he want an apprentice capable of killing him (Anakin) then?

Nowhere does it say that he wanted to be killed by Anakin. He just wanted to make the Force's Chosen One his most loyal servant, even if he risked to losing his life in the process.

Freedon Nadd

Originally posted by ILS
The Rule of Two was a problem solving system, not a directionless pursuit of power. It was the solution to ending in-fighting and destroying the Jedi once and for all. The founding tenets of the Sith themselves didn't change.

This is elementary stuff.

Someone doesn't get my point. Anyways, Rule of Two $ucks the most. Infighting might be over, but what if both die in a random accident or the apprentice killed the Master too early? This Banite Way is good only when you are concealed in shadows and the Sith aren't exposed to any outside dangers. It's only useful in the field of cunning and manipulation.

I like the Old Ways better. There would be infighting, but Sith would still rise one after another even if the "Master" is gone.

And not all Sith are about the power for the power's sake philosophy. For example, the Kraytine Sith only craved power for a purpose(bring order to the galaxy, etc)
The Old Sith sought to rule worlds after worlds because it would allow them to transcend their 'petty' social condition(in search of glory, honor, pride, etc.)

Galan007

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Isn't this Disney canon? It is from the Tarkin novelization, so yeah, it's Disney canon(which is canon, canon.)

Kurk

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Someone doesn't get my point. Anyways, Rule of Two $ucks the most. Infighting might be over, but what if both die in a random accident or the apprentice killed the Master too early? This Banite Way is good only when you are concealed in shadows and the Sith aren't exposed to any outside dangers. It's only useful in the field of cunning and manipulation.

I like the Old Ways better. There would be infighting, but Sith would still rise one after another even if the "Master" is gone.

And not all Sith are about the power for the power's sake philosophy. For example, the Kraytine Sith only craved power for a purpose(bring order to the galaxy, etc)
The Old Sith sought to rule worlds after worlds because it would allow them to transcend their 'petty' social condition(in search of glory, honor, pride, etc.) Agree wholeheartedly

Galan007

In the Bane novel it was stated that an abundance of Sith roaming around actually weakens the dark side as a whole, because it is spread too thin between users. Moreover, it was stated that an abundance of Sith could enable multiple lesser beings to overthrow and kill a more powerful Master, which would subsequently allow a far weaker being to assume supremacy/leadership... And that would ultimately destroy the Sith all together.

Bane didn't agree with that methodology, which is why he reinstated the Rule of Two -- it helps cull weakness from the Order.

Freedon Nadd

Bane disagreed with his own Rule after he wanted to master Transference willing to possess Zannah when he was killed by her. Also, apprentices won't unite forces to overthrow their Master.
1. If the Master is stronger than them, the apprentices wouldn't dare to overthrow him or her(if they are aware of it; exceptions from the norm do exist)
2. Bane experienced only the Brotherhood of Sith(a communism type of Sith) where apprentices would join forces to kill their Masters because that was Kaan's philosophy where all Sith are equal, but crave for power still existed in the Sith. And Kaan allowed it. Even Kaan's own doctrine was actually a 'lie' he proclaimed to hold power over the other Sith Lords.

Galan007

^ That changes nothing I said.

Bane initially reinstated the Rule of Two primarily for the reasons I mentioned -- the novel was very specific in that regard. Whether or not you agree with his reasoning is irrelevant to the point at hand.

Freedon Nadd

Originally posted by Galan007
In the Bane novel it was stated that an abundance of Sith roaming around actually weakens the dark side as a whole, because it is spread too thin between users. Moreover, it was stated that an abundance of Sith could enable multiple lesser beings to overthrow and kill a more powerful Master, which would subsequently allow a far weaker being to assume supremacy/leadership... And that would ultimately destroy the Sith all together.

Bane didn't agree with that methodology, which is why he reinstated the Rule of Two -- it helps cull weakness from the Order.

What you pointed out regarding the Old Rule is that it has disadvantages!? Rule of Two does too. What if both Sith are killed in an accident? What if the apprentice kills their master too early(not having learned everything) or kills them but turns to the light side by themselves or are converted to it by Jedi or other lightsiders?

In the end, all of them have disadvantages. But Rule of Two has the deadliest setbacks because it also implies activity in politics and still conceal your true nature.

In the Old Sith Rule, Sith would be out there even if an amount of them perished.
In fact it was only because of them that various Force sensitive or rogue Jedi would be able to turn to the Sith even if the order died(e.g: A'Sharad Hett with XoXaan, Exar Kun with the ancient Sith, etc)

Galan007

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
What you pointed out regarding the Old Rule is that it has disadvantages!? Rule of Two does too. I didn't say otherwise. Both have inherent disadvantages.

However, the Rule of Two was more effective in that it ultimately allowed the Sith to reach ultimate galactic power/supremacy... Something the 'old rule' never quite matched.

Freedon Nadd

Originally posted by Galan007
^ That changes nothing I said.

Bane initially reinstated the Rule of Two primarily for the reasons I mentioned -- the novel was very specific in that regard. Whether or not you agree with his reasoning is irrelevant to the point at hand.

He agreed that Kaan's communism Sith will destroy them. And it is true from a certain point of view. But that doesn't mean he was 100% right to state that Two Should Be There&gt;More Should Be There.
It took Bane some time to understand that no Sith wants to be replaced or lose their power in the front of another(hence why Kaan said all of the Sith Lords are equal and allowed infighting) Hence, Bane said: Sith crave power for power's sake.

He didn't understand Skere Kaan's doctrine, except when it was way too late.

Galan007

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
He agreed that Kaan's communism Sith will destroy them. And it is true from a certain point of view. But that doesn't mean he was 100% right to state that Two Should Be There&gt;More Should Be There.
It took Bane some time to understand that no Sith wants to be replaced or lose their power in the front of another(hence why Kaan said all of the Sith Lords are equal and allowed infighting) Hence, Bane said: Sith crave power for power's sake.

He didn't understand Skere Kaan's doctrine, except when it was way too late. That said, Bane did want Zannah to eventually challenge/kill him. When he didn't think she would ever attempt do so, he sought out some of the other means you mentioned to try and retain power/control himself... Above all, Bane wanted the most powerful being to be the Master -- and if it wasn't going to be her, it had to be him.

As you said: power was his primary motivator(as it was for ALL Banite Sith.)

Freedon Nadd

Originally posted by Galan007
I didn't say otherwise. Both have inherent disadvantages.

However, the Rule of Two was more effective in that it ultimately allowed the Sith to reach ultimate galactic power/supremacy... Something the 'old rule' never quite matched.

It took decades. The Old Rule doesn't rely on that: even if it did conquer the galaxy in a faster rate: e.g: Krayt's Rule of One.

This is like arguing over apples and oranges.
Main point is that all these philosophies are flawed. But some people out here act like Rule of Two is without disadvantages.

Freedon Nadd

Also, Sidious was the last Banite Sith. But even he disregarded that philosophy after he killed Plagueis. I don't think this Grand Plan has anything to do with the Banite Sith because even Marka Ragnos' spirit mentions it to Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma on Cinnagar.

Freedon Nadd

Originally posted by Galan007
That said, Bane did want Zannah to eventually challenge/kill him. When he didn't think she would ever attempt do so, he sought out some of the other means you mentioned to try and retain power/control himself... Above all, Bane wanted the most powerful being to be the Master -- and if it wasn't going to be her, it had to be him.

As you said: power was his primary motivator(as it was for ALL Banite Sith.)

Nah, if that was really the reason for abandoning the Rule of Two. Then Bane would have cast Zannah aside and take another apprentice. Bane did it out of fear of losing his power(not because Zannah didn't want to kill him) to be honest.

Galan007

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
It took decades. It took thousands of years. Still happened, though... Never quite did with the old ways. That's all I'm saying.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
But some people out here act like Rule of Two is without disadvantages. Oh, I don't agree with that at all. As mentioned: both methodologies have their inherent weaknesses/disadvantages... Though I personally do prefer the Rule of Two, but to each their own. /shrug

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Also, Sidious was the last Banite Sith. But even he disregarded that philosophy after he killed Plagueis. I don't think this Grand Plan has anything to do with the Banite Sith because even Marka Ragnos' spirit mentions it to Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma on Cinnagar. I don't think Palpatine ever really thought Vader would try and overthrow him, until he was literally hurling down the reactor shaft in RotJ. Hence his line to Luke minutes before his death:
"You... Like your father... Are now MINE!"

Regardless, Palpatine's ultimate plan/goal was, essentially, controlling the entire universe himself. He certainly didn't *need* apprentices or w/e, but he still *wanted* them... The Banite ways were too ingrained for him to ever completely abandon them, I guess.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Nah, if that was really the reason for abandoning the Rule of Two. Then Bane would have cast Zannah aside and take another apprentice. Bane did it out of fear of losing his power(not because Zannah didn't want to kill him) to be honest. Bane only wanted to stay in command IF Zannah was too weak to overthrow/kill him. The whole point behind learning things like Essence-Transfer and whatnot was in hopes of passing his knowledge onto a more powerful/deserving apprentice, because his current body was failing him. I don't think he ever fully abandoned the Rule of Two -- though the lines certainly became blurred toward the end.

However, his original goal was clear: he would teach Zannah everything he knew, when Zannah was ready she would challenge/kill Bane and take another apprentice for herself -- and if Zannah was too weak to kill him, she never deserved to be the Master in the first place... She just took a really long time to ever challenge him, which pissed Bane off because he thought he'd chosen an inept successor.

Freedon Nadd

It seems we agree on the whole thing. But judge the Rules differently. There is no point in arguing.
Also, isn't that Disney canon with Sidious wanting to become the Satanic God?

NewGuy01

Originally posted by Galan007
In the Bane novel it was stated that an abundance of Sith roaming around actually weakens the dark side as a whole, because it is spread too thin between users.

Pretty sure this was metaphorical, not literal.

Galan007

^ Bane sounded pretty literal here:

"Poison should not harm a Dark Lord," he told her. Then he admitted, "Yet it almost killed me." He paused, but she didn't say anything. "There are too many Sith Lords in the Brotherhood," he went on. "Too many who are weak in the dark side. Kaan doesn't understand this."

Right or wrong, Bane believed that an abundance of Sith spread the dark side too thin, subsequently weakening all of them... And he believed it enough that he was willing to obliterate all existing Sith to reinstate the Rule of Two. /shrug

Galan007

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Also, isn't that Disney canon with Sidious wanting to become the Satanic God? I answered this question on the last page, but the excerpt I posted earlier is from the Tarkin novelization, so yeah, it's Disney canon(which is canon, canon):

"And would not allow himself to be sidetracked from his goal of unlocking the secrets many Sith Masters before him had sought -- the means to harness the powers of the dark side to reshape reality itself; in effect, to fashion a universe of his own creation. Not mere immortality of the sort Plagueis had lusted after, but influence of the ultimate sort."

...So from a canonical POV, reshaping the entire universe in his own image WAS Palpatine's end-goal. Non-canon/Legends material is another matter entirely(depending which source you use, of course.)

quanchi112

Originally posted by Kurk
Your white-trash, uneducated identity is showing. Brains are nothing more than chemical reactions, and chemistry happens for a reason. Your skewed interpretations, for example, are due to chemical reactions occurring between receptors and effectors in your mind. It's okay, you can't control it. You are weak there's no way around it. I'm sure we can blame that low self esteem and poor social skills on your lack of going outside.

Your insecurity is on full display, cuck.

Freedon Nadd

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Bane sounded pretty literal here:

"Poison should not harm a Dark Lord," he told her. Then he admitted, "Yet it almost killed me." He paused, but she didn't say anything. "There are too many Sith Lords in the Brotherhood," he went on. "Too many who are weak in the dark side. Kaan doesn't understand this."

Right or wrong, Bane believed that an abundance of Sith spread the dark side too thin, subsequently weakening all of them... And he believed it enough that he was willing to obliterate all existing Sith to reinstate the Rule of Two. /shrug

But Kaan did understand this. Hence he used the 'equality' myth to hold them under his control. Also, were the Brotherhood Sith really weak in the Force? Maybe Bane was talking about their Sith indoctrination and determination rather than their raw potential.

"They are weak in the dark side."

That's why Bane mocked them as an off-shot parody of the Dark Jedi.
Anyway, just because Bane believed so, that doesn't mean he was 100% right.

Freedon Nadd

Originally posted by Galan007
I answered this question on the last page, but the excerpt I posted earlier is from the Tarkin novelization, so yeah, it's Disney canon(which is canon, canon):

"And would not allow himself to be sidetracked from his goal of unlocking the secrets many Sith Masters before him had sought -- the means to harness the powers of the dark side to reshape reality itself; in effect, to fashion a universe of his own creation. Not mere immortality of the sort Plagueis had lusted after, but influence of the ultimate sort."

...So from a canonical POV, reshaping the entire universe in his own image WAS Palpatine's end-goal. Non-canon/Legends material is another matter entirely(depending which source you use, of course.)

We don't know if OP meant about canon Sidious, tho. Also, EU Sidious, in my opinion, just wanted knowledge(power) because he was afraid of losing it. He wanted more because he wanted more to make sure he doesn't lose what he gains.

Kurk

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
We don't know if OP meant about canon Sidious, tho. Also, EU Sidious, in my opinion, just wanted knowledge(power) because he was afraid of losing it. He wanted more because he wanted more to make sure he doesn't lose what he gains. Both EU and canon

Freedon Nadd

Canon-his goal was to reshape reality itself like his Banite predecessors
Legends-his goal was to never stop amassing dark side knowledge because he wasn't sure if what he knows now is enough already

First case is about one obsessed with universal authority
Second case is about one constantly hungry for dark side knowledge

Galan007

Both motives essentially revolve around Palpatine attaining the most dark side knowledge that he could.

#UnlimitedPower

Galan007

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Anyway, just because Bane believed so, that doesn't mean he was 100% right. ...Which is why I said: "Right or wrong, Bane believed..."

none

Freedon Nadd

Yes, but you seem to imply that the RoT produces only the strongest Sith Lords.

Galan007

I personally implied nothing of the sort. I told you what Bane's thoughts/motivations were on the matter. Nothing more; nothing less.

Freedon Nadd

But you do believe, so.

Galan007

Huh?

As I have already stated: I personally prefer the Rule of Two to the 'old ways', yes. I also believe the RoT is what allowed the Sith to achieve their ultimate goal of entirely overthrowing Democracy, and ruling over the galaxy with an iron fist -- something the 'old ways' never quite allowed the Sith to achieve... But the latter is more than just my opinion, it's also a fact.

...That certainly doesn't mean I agree with Bane's entire methodology, however -- nor does it mean the RoT is without its own inherent faults/weaknesses.

Freedon Nadd

Old Sith weren't preoccupied with politics, so...

Galan007

And that's changes anything I said.... How?

The Ellimist

The RoT was clearly effect but makes no sense on its face. All it takes is one accident...

Freedon Nadd

Exactly. Outside factors play their parts too.(Jar Jar Binks)

Freedon Nadd

Originally posted by Galan007
And that's changes anything I said.... How?

Politics includes alliances, financial and military support, etc

On top of that, in Legends, Bane's lineage was broken due to Plagueis allowing Sidious to train Maul. Technically, Plagueis was the last of Bane's legacy. So, no, Rule of Two doesn't get the credit for the Jedi's fall. That's Palpatine's Rule of One(inspired by Plagueis' vision of an everlasting Dark Lord of the Sith)

Galan007

Plagueis only allowed Palpatine to train Maul under the false pretense that Maul was nothing more than a dark side assassin/acolyte(which IS still permitted under the Rule of Two/Banite philosophy.) Unbeknownst to Plagueis, however, Palpatine had been plotting to overthrow/kill him the entire time, and was secretly training Maul as his *own* Sith apprentice.

That said, Plagueis never violated the RoT knowingly. Palpatine technically did, but that was only because he felt that he had nothing more to learn from Plagueis, and knew he would eventually usurp primacy as Sith Master... He was just trying to get a head-start on training an apprentice, because it takes decadeS. IOW, Palpatine infringed upon the RoT, but he did so for reasons that align with Banite teachings.

Freedon Nadd

So, you just proved that Sidious trained Maul(because he wanted him to be a true apprentice) whilst still under Plagueis' tutelage. That's already a deviation from Bane's rule even if Sidious had in mind to usurp Plagueis. That's what Sith naturally do, you know. Also, Rule of Two has nothing to do with the conquest of the galaxy(at least, not the Force-wise part)
Rule of Two didn't take the galaxy via Force strength but via cunning, manipulation, and resourcefulness. That's the whole point. So, even if politically it did achieve the Grand Design, it doesn't produce the best and the most powerful Sith Lords.

Galan007

This 'debating' you do is quite something. You basically repeat everything I say, and then pretend like I didn't already say it. You also seem to throw in a few red herrings here and there, which deviate from the point at hand all together. Interesting... It's like you're just trying to argue for arguments sake.

Freedon Nadd

You said RoT makes the strongest Sith. I said, no. And you disagreed with my response saying that RoT Sith took over the galaxy.