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3-giiving you lads back your free time and the chance to go somewhere that actually appreicates your time and effort

its a pity- but lets give it a dignified ending and put it out of its misery

what do you lads think

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

BEST POST IN 5 YEARS. That took balls to say. You have hit the nail on the head.

Lads, if we are really honest with ourselves, deep deep down, you know that he is right.
- The longer you stay in the more you will realise it

Welcome back rommel. We missed you.

But a very quick way to reduce the DF Wage bill by 3%(or more) without a reduction in services provided is to disband the RDF.
These days everyone needs to provide a quantifiable return for their budget allocation. Read any DF Annual report to see what I mean.

Reserve Defence Forces (RDF)
The primary task of the RDF in peacetime is to train for contingency tasks. This was the
second year of the establishment of the non-integrated reserve and there were significant
advancements in the areas of administration and training. The main output was the
completion of an audit in November 2007 of the first two years of force development.
This audit is consistent with the recommendations of the Reserve Defence Force Review
Implementation Board Report (RDFRIBR). The audit measures progress to date and
makes recommendations to develop the force to 2011, in line with the recommendations
contained in the White Paper on Defence.
RDF Financial Administrative Instruction R5 was completed and a new promotion
system from Captain to Commandant was introduced during 2007. The General Purpose
Machine Gun and the H&K Universal Self-Loading Pistol were introduced to the RDF.
A Distance Learning Working Group continued its task of preparing elements of syllabi
for delivery through this medium.
The RDF strength was reduced over the course of the year from 9,134 on 1 January 2007,
to 8,408 on 31 December 2007, due mainly to the discharge of non-effective personnel.
The Director of Reserve Forces prepared a new strategic training development plan (TI
02/2007) for non-integration RDF training for the period 2007–2009.

On a serious note before the hysterics get going on the FCA/RDF side and the PDF start nodding heads sagely,

the PWC report and White Paper to 2010 both recommended a reserve. it is still government policy. We are waiting for the new White Paper [ flagged by the Government as discussions happening with the 'stakeholders' last week - see Minister's Questions on Wednesday [ written and Oral ].

I'd be wary of what I wished for here on the PDF side, because it looks as if the 1st line reserve being an active one is out of the box again.

We can't 'Give it a dignified ending' - only the Government can choose to stand down a component of its Defence Forces. Until then it's extremely encouraging for our line PDF colleagues to recommend disbandment and shows hope and promise in our continued working relationship.

Seriously Hedgehog! I respect and agree with about 90% of what you say but you really want to know what I think of your suggestion here???????????????

I would without a shadow of a doubt be booted from the forum if I told you. Sorry but thats my opinion.

work away

I posted it in the firm knowledge that I am not going to win

the IMO all round guy of the year award for that opinion

but as it stands the RDF is sadly a waste of tax payers money and your time

that time and effort can be invested in so many valuable things for the community

the same with the monies involved

IWhen I call for the disbandment of the RDF its not because of any fault on your behalf rather

the oppisite

the PDF failed to use probably one of the most valuable assets they had

therefore fkuc them and fluc them royally

why should taxpayers money be spent on whats simply used as a folly

why should your weekends- tuesdays- thursdays be spent away form the kids

as a mere sop to the notion that look how great we as are sure we support

our gallant RDF ers

we all know that is a big fat lie

now as Soldiers we can sit back and say Hedgehog is an asshole (frequently said)

or we can discuss this and then come tot he conxlusion that I am an asshole

Traumagod

your the worlds biggest jessie- never be afraid to take me on- I like a good insult
I can hardly go running tot he mods and say TG insulted me- have you seen some of the gick I have said about people on here
I am still suprised I havent as yet been lynched

come on big girls blouse

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

While phasing out the reserve might make financial sense, politially it would be difficult, as lots of intrest groups would be violently opposed. Campaigns would be launched, former reservists would be on local radio talking about the good old days when they were using lee enfields and the social benefits of giving young people something to do, etc which would cause the back benchers to question government policy. The amount spent on the reserve is small amount of the total that the tax payer wastes for political reasons, and I can't see that stopping.

I think though it might loose its artillery units, and other combat support service units and become solely an infantry force.

As for the PDF, the next white paper will be intresting. Keeping the three brigade structure will be difficult, given the end of the IRA campaign and the lack of an external threat. Furthermore, the main cost of the defence forces has always the army's wage bill and pensions, and that is where defence spending goes, the temptation will be to reduce that. Most european armies now have a smaller structure than ireland, (Sweden has just reduced its army to eight combat battalions). Expect to see the same.

While phasing out the reserve might make financial sense, politially it would be difficult, as lots of intrest groups would be violently opposed. Campaigns would be launched, former reservists would be on local radio talking about the good old days when they were using lee enfields and the social benefits of giving young people something to do, etc which would cause the back benchers to question government policy. The amount spent on the reserve is small amount of the total that the tax payer wastes for political reasons, and I can't see that stopping.

I think though it might loose its artillery units, and other combat support service units and become solely an infantry force.

As for the PDF, the next white paper will be intresting. Keeping the three brigade structure will be difficult, given the end of the IRA campaign and the lack of an external threat. Furthermore, the main cost of the defence forces has always the army's wage bill and pensions, and that is where defence spending goes, the temptation will be to reduce that. Most european armies now have a smaller structure than ireland, (Sweden has just reduced its army to eight combat battalions). Expect to see the same.

I would have thought the opposite.

That the Infantry battalions would be dissolved and we would be reformed as part of the CS or CSS units in the DF.

It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

[QUOTE=Docman;238437]Hey, Why don't we go all the way and disband the RDF & The PDF. Turn the NS & AC into a Coast Guard. Makes the most sense financially.

Don't say it aloud, its the option the department of finance favoured in the last white paper.

As for the reserve loosing its CS units, well the PDF will increase its expeditionary focus, then having the majority of CS units reservists will limit its flexibility. Peace support missions are becoming more robust and it the last seven years have show anything its the importance of engineers, and other specialised units like EOD. IMHO, the army should rebalance, towards having fewer, but better equipped units, and develop its capability in areas like area and route clearance.

Lads, if we are really honest with ourselves, deep deep down, you know that he is right.
- The longer you stay in the more you will realise it

The longer you're away the more you realise it too. Aside from enjoying it or anything sentimental, look objectively. People here are crying to get rid of sail training programmes. Something that's actually productive. I'd rather see the RDF (which is NOT an investment in the youth of the country) go rather than useful projects that are capeable of actually MAKING money.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

to ride a horse for an hour- she lives for it and is passionate about horses

the stables she attends has about 40 kids a saturday vying for places to shovel shit

and wash saddles and tackles etc

I am sure that there are hundreds of stables around the country with the same queue of

working class kids- dying to ride a big horse.

now why should nt my girl get a subsidised holdiay getting experience in her hobby

why should those from the traditional Yahting fraternity get the bobs

People here are crying to get rid of sail training programmes.

rich kids daddies and mammies should pay there own way

go rather than useful projects that are capeable of actually MAKING money.

if it actually makes money then

why are we arguing- lets raise it and have 4 more vessels

but wait we know that in the budget

it is a loss making vessel

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

to ride a horse for an hour- she lives for it and is passionate about horses

the stables she attends has about 40 kids a saturday vying for places to shovel shit

and wash saddles and tackles etc

I am sure that there are hundreds of stables around the country with the same queue of

working class kids- dying to ride a big horse.

now why should nt my girl get a subsidised holdiay getting experience in her hobby

why should those from the traditional Yahting fraternity get the bobs

rich kids daddies and mammies should pay there own way

if it actually makes money then

why are we arguing- lets raise it and have 4 more vessels

but wait we know that in the budget

it is a loss making vessel

Fair play to her. Yes, she should get a subsidised camp.
Her interest is in horses, plenty of working class kids love sailing but can't afford to buy the wetsuits, boots, boat, trailer, new sails, sail repair kits, spare parts, lifejackets, paraphrenalia etc etc etc.

Hedgehog, believe it or not, I was agreeing with the post you made in this thread.

THe RDF IS a waste of money. It does NOT serve any purpose. Get rid of it and you could have your subsidised camp for your daughter and hell, send them on a STV when they're older if they show an interest.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

if she got it for nothing then there would be no effort in it and therefore no reward

this is her lesson for life to come

Hedgehog, believe it or not, I was agreeing with the post you made in this thread

I am so used to being the sole voice of reason in this shop that I just take for granted that people disagree with me

sorry

THe RDF IS a waste of money. It does NOT serve any purpose. Get rid of it and you could have your subsidised camp for your daughter and hell, send them on a STV when they're older if they show an interest.

your missing my point the RDF is only a waste because the dept have no interest in

actually using our reserve the proper way a reserve should be

and when the heir to the Hog non fortune want anything then they go out and earn a few bob

and then they can do it

I am a miserable sod- I dont give them handouts

anything they get they earn either through work, good exam results or just plain bribery

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Hey, Why don't we go all the way and disband the RDF & The PDF. Turn the NS & AC into a Coast Guard. Makes the most sense financially.

Any argument that can be applied to disbanding the RDF can also be applied to the PDF.

I said this in retaliation to Hedgehog. The way his original post was written was is such a way as to cause conflict between RDF & PDF. This has been a common thread through his more recent posts - whether on purpose or not. It was the reaction he wanted.

However, my true opinion is different.
The RDF had a way of making itself relevant. It was handed a golden opportunity to make it indispensable. This was Integration. Integration could have provided the PDF Battalions with a manoeuvre element which would have made them far more effective. It would have provided the RDF with enhanced training & skills, purpose & equipment.
It is ironic that by attempting to ensure their personal powerbases and killing Integration, most of the anti-Integration mafia and senior officers have probably doomed the RDF and wiped out those power bases that they cherished so much. The RDF is only guaranteed survival until Dec 2009 - the end of the current white paper. The 2010 white paper may just finish it off.

The PDF is relevant and has an important purpose, something desperately needed by the RDF.

I said this in retaliation to Hedgehog. The way his original post was written was is such a way as to cause conflict between RDF & PDF. This has been a common thread through his more recent posts - whether on purpose or not. It was the reaction he wanted.

However, my true opinion is different.
The RDF had a way of making itself relevant. It was handed a golden opportunity to make it indispensable. This was Integration. Integration could have provided the PDF Battalions with a manoeuvre element which would have made them far more effective. It would have provided the RDF with enhanced training & skills, purpose & equipment.
It is ironic that by attempting to ensure their personal powerbases and killing Integration, most of the anti-Integration mafia and senior officers have probably doomed the RDF and wiped out those power bases that they cherished so much. The RDF is only guaranteed survival until Dec 2009 - the end of the current white paper. The 2010 white paper may just finish it off.

The PDF is relevant and has an important purpose, something desperately needed by the RDF.

Which is why, I would argue, integration should have applied across the board, to the entire RDF- would have killed off any anti-integration "mafia" in one fell swoop.

The way his original post was written was is such a way as to cause conflict between RDF & PDF. This has been a common thread through his more recent posts - whether on purpose or not. It was the reaction he wanted

NO NO and NO

why why and why

would I do it

I started the lazy Nuns thread for fun

this I posted on because I believe

that we are at impasse in regards everything in thei COuntry

so in effect we can have our year zero with out the skulls

why would you be so paranoid as to my motives

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Docman made a very interesting point re: the White Paper to 2009. I haven't read it but would be interested in finding out more.

I have posted here before that IMHO the DOD/Top Brass/Finance would be more than happy if the AR was brought to an end.

I feel that when the DOD get down to the nitty gritty of making savings over the next few years the mandays, etc are going to be reduced significantly. I would go so far as to say that we could end up with 7 days full time max with the exception for a few courses. I remember during the 80's a Pots course being run over three weekends (unpaid) and one week full time. Further uniforms, transport, rations, etc will form part of the mix = cutbacks.

Per the two Brians the €2Bm savings this year is only the start with €4Bm each for 2010 & 2011 and more cuts up to 2013.

Here's a plan. In each Bde area, the Bns become Coys to form one Bn, the CS and CSS Coys become Plns in the new Bn, ie one reserve BN for ecah PDF Bde. Do away with a lot of cadre, locations, etc, etc. Then just become more selective with recruitment, formal contracts, fitness tests, bonus points for entry to PDF, etc. If we are lucky.

Now how do you get rid of the numbers. Simple, service no longer required, fitness tests, attendence, etc. Inability to pay. Now where did I hear that expression before.

With the rate of job losses over the last few months and with Brian Cowan openly saying that unemployment will reach 400k this year any political pressure coming from AR sources will be little or none. Quite simply the country will be in such a state that you will get a very short answer from your local TD. Indeed some ecomonists and commentators say the figue will be significantly higher over the next few years. They only have to be right once.

So leaving aside the financial cost of supporting people and familes who are out of work, the whole area of the social cost is incalculable in terms of education, homes being repossed, peoples' self esteem, the health service, etc.