Sep. 5, 2019
06:51 am JST

What seems to be lost in all the reporting and politics is that the Exit vote was advisory. It was a snap shot in time. And that some of the politicians involved were dishonest concerning the future of GB after the exit. Time for a new public vote. GB needs to clip the wings of the British Trumpies.

Sep. 5, 2019
07:44 am JST

The bill would require the government to ask the EU to delay Brexit until Jan 31, 2020

NO, NO, NO, NO. I am sick of these people. Do they think the world revolves around them? How many times are they going to ask for postponement? The EU is sick and tired of their endless drama. Just get OUT already. Disorganized bunch of UNELECTED clowns. Some of the English folks here get angry at me for saying that UK is run by unelected Lords, but it's true. Majority of UK politicians ARE unelected Lords. The PM is not elected either.

Another thing i find similar between England and Japan is that there is no communication between the different classes of society. They all live in a bubble of their own and never communicate or even know what's happening on the other side. They just want to take power of the central government and impose their will on the rest of the population. In the US for example different groups usually aim at persuading the rest of society to join their cause. There is a lot of communication happening. All efforts are concentrated toward changing society, to get more people on board with you. Wheres in England and in Japan, all efforts are towards getting the power of the central government so one group can impose their will on the rest of society. It's almost like they don't think there is point in talking, the other side is beneath them. I see this trait in many English people too. They read the first sentence of what i say, disagree with it, and stop reading the rest. Very quick to judge and closed to receiving new information. I imagine this is a mini model of their whole society. It's very hard to progress and reach a consensus if you don't TALK.

Why isn't Boris and these other clowns talking with each other so they can solve their conflicts and reach a consensus? I don't see any communication happening neither within nor outside the government. I see power struggle. Everything is so vague and unclear, just like in Japan.

Sep. 5, 2019
07:46 am JST

Time for a new public vote. GB needs to clip the wings of the British Trumpies.

Although you could also argue that the result of a second referendum is only advisory, and therefore still proceed with Brexit.

I want one, on the ground that the margin of victory in the first was not material enough for such a material change and that parliament is unable to make up its mind. I think it will be a clear majority for Remain.

Sep. 5, 2019
07:47 am JST

But if they can’t get out of Europe, how will the rich avoid paying taxes once the new EU law kicks in? Won’t somebody think of the wealthy?

Boom, there it is! Among other things Brexit is about maintaining London's position as money-laundering capital of the world.

And for those in any doubt as to the utter incompetence of those leading the Johnson regime, here's Andrea Leadsom live on TV in June 2016, during the run up to the referendum. It's difficult to tell whether she simply has no idea what she's talking about or whether she's just lying. Either way, programme host Andrew Neill can barely believe what she's saying and asks her to repeat several times. Even the guy on her right feels embarrasssed for her....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noK4OJOjmVk&feature=youtu.be

As if that weren't bad enough, there's this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6LVNpfES8k

Around the same time, during the Brexit referendum lead up, Leadsom appeared on the Newsnight programme with Pascal Lamy, former Director General of the World Trade Organisation and European Commissioner for Trade. That's a man who spent 20 years in trade negotiations. Within 3 minutes Lamy realises Leadsom has no idea what she's talking about, and gives her a lecture as if he were dealing with a child.

Andrea Leadsom is now Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. You couldn't make it up...

Sep. 5, 2019
08:00 am JST

you could also argue that the result of a second referendum is only advisory

Whether a referendum is advisory or legally binding depends on the wording of the legislation authorising the referendum. Unless the legislation specifically states that the referendum in question is legally binding, it is by definition advisory.

All that's necessary is for legislation to be drawn up authorising a legally-binding referendum. Any such legislation would of course also contain safeguards, including a minimum turnout, a minimum vote and the inclusion in the wording of the referendum of viable alternative choices.

A proper referendum would be legally binding.

And Remain would win.

And Leave would howl that it wasn't fair because a scrape-through 52% majority based on lies and more lies wasn't enough to trigger earth-shaking changes.

Sep. 5, 2019
08:07 am JST

PM Bozo ain't no Admiral Nelson!

PM Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson has suffered so many major defeats in such a short time and his ship hasn't got out of port.

Yesterday, in the commons Prime Minister's Question Time he was both sexist and racist with his replies. Attacking Indians and muslims on their clothes and calling female politicians "she" which is impolite and not used.

Sep. 5, 2019
08:19 am JST

@Alfie and lest we forget, Leadsom had family members directly implicated by the Panama Paradise Papers leak. Surprised that was swept under the rug so quickly to be honest, because it paints a pretty clear picture as to why so many prominent Brexiteers wanted out of Europe before the new tax avoidance regulations take effect.

Sep. 5, 2019
08:27 am JST

Boris read Classics at university and probably saw himself as a hero, coming in and slicing through the Gordian Knot of Brexit like Alexander the Great. Looks like he was reading the wrong classical allusion, since the only thing he's got since becoming PM is a right old shellacking from the gods for the unforgivable sin of hubris.

Sep. 5, 2019
08:57 am JST

Sep. 5, 2019
09:02 am JST

yildirayToday 08:19 am JST

@Alfie and lest we forget, Leadsom had family members directly implicated by the Panama Paradise Papers leak. Surprised that was swept under the rug so quickly to be honest, because it paints a pretty clear picture as to why so many prominent Brexiteers wanted out of Europe before the new tax avoidance regulations take effect.

Sep. 5, 2019
09:05 am JST

Sep. 5, 2019
09:23 am JST

I think we're seeing the limits of direct/western style democracy here; we the ppl don't really decide the laws, what we want for our country & how to do it, we elect ppl hoping they'll do what they said they'd do should they get elected.

The dutch & french also got shafted in 2005 when they voted against the euro constitution; euro govts went ahead, changed the wording, called it treaty rather than constitution and basically ignored the results of the referendums.

Same is happening here, we're told 'in the interest of the nation', the greatest good for the greatest number etc, which may well be true but it's still pretty pathetic and imo unethical, whatever that means in politics these days. Saying NO to a GE means that the brexit referendum was never about democracy, 'taking back control' (lol), sovereignty etc. Just one big farce.

Sep. 5, 2019
10:01 am JST

Sep. 5, 2019
10:09 am JST

kurisupisuToday 09:43 am JST

There will be a Brexit once Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party candidates combine with the leave Tories.

How? The leave Tories have demonstrated over the past three years that they're not up to the job and I wouldn't personally rate the Brexit Party's chances of winning any seats very highly, no matter how well they did in the European Parliament elections.

Sep. 5, 2019
10:14 am JST

Sep. 5, 2019
10:16 am JST

Johnson has no plan and no intention to renegotiate a new deal. Labour wisely not accepting his bait of a general election until no-deal safely off the agenda. Then there will be an election. Boris' current stance will see him safe from losing any seats to Brexit, but he will lose dozens of seats to the LibDems and SNP. Labour will lose a handful of seats to the LibDems and SNP, and possibly one or two to Brexit. Outcome? A Labour/LibDem/SNP coalition and a new referendum which will give a resoundingly Remain result. The icing on the cake will be if Johnson and Rees-Mogg lose their seats and Farage fails to win one for the 8th time. All very possible. The price of SNP involvement will be a new Scottish independence referendum. Worth paying.

Sep. 5, 2019
11:03 am JST

And that some of the politicians involved were dishonest concerning the future of GB after the exit

As if the remainer politicians were all honest.

Can you cite any examples of remainer politicians' dishonesty?

The U.K. voted to leave. This should have been carried out, deal or no deal with the globalist EU at the end of March.

Yes.... unfortunately the politicians who convinced the U.K. to vote leave were brazen charlatans who talked a good fight but didn't have any idea what to do next if the leave campaign did actually win. "Britain Trump" wasn't up to the job when he wussed out of the Tory leadership election to replace David Cameron. He's not up to the job now either.

Sep. 5, 2019
11:15 am JST

I believe that was Johnson's third day in Parliament as PM. He's already a lame duck, no majority, twenty odd fewer MPs, lies about ongoing backstop negotiations exposed, and soon-to-be legally bound to ask for another extension. How quickly it has all unravelled.

Sep. 5, 2019
11:32 am JST

Did anyone notice how Lying Johnson, when criticising Corbyn, said that remaining in the EU after 31st October would cost the UK 1 billion pounds a month? That's substantially less than the 350 million a week figure Lying Johnson had on his campaign bus. The true figure is less than 1 billion a month.

Sep. 5, 2019
11:33 am JST

For people in the U.K. - you do realize any deal you can get at this point is going to screw you over anyway? Have your hard Brexit, take the pain as it is, then deal with things afterward. Fire up the engines of diplomacy and strike trade deals with non-EU states instead. Boris can make a deal with Trump that's lucrative for the U.K. Heck, we'll throw in goodies just to disgrace the EU at this point simply because it'll be amusing. Heck, Germany's heading toward recession right now, strike while the iron's hot. The U.K. has an advantage and it's not using it.

Sep. 5, 2019
11:34 am JST

I watched some of the "debate" in Commons on TV yesterday. I thought Johnson's performance was truly underwhelming, all bluster and refusal to give straight answers to straight questions. By contrast Corbyn seemed calm and focused.

Sep. 5, 2019
11:38 am JST

For non-UK readers willing to listen, Britain has not left the EU because the negotiated deal was voted down by Brexiteers themselves, notably the ERG wing of the Conservative Party. They gambled on getting a more extreme version of Brexit. This gamble stretched things out and is now blowing up spectacularly. The opposition tried to pass various weaker forms of Brexit through indicative votes back in March, but they were voted down too, again by Brexiteers pushing for a different version.

So, the simple answer is that Parliament has never been able to "get on with it" because it was never clear what "it" was. British people narrowly vote to "Leave". They were never then asked what this meant. Like "utsukushiikuni Nihon" and MAGA, to achieve things in politics, you need details. Without them, you just have empty slogans.

Sep. 5, 2019
11:45 am JST

Boris Johnson rolled the dice on the belief that comrade corbyn, small c, would have the courage of conviction.

corbyn is and will always be a back bench nobody, that Ed Miliband let the political window open for coward corbyn to politically burgle office of sortsm coward corbyn no more no less. is unwilling to fight for office, stand up straigh,t don't hide behind fakery and lies.

Sep. 5, 2019
11:49 am JST

Sep. 5, 2019
11:57 am JST

At least Johnson can boast a 100% record in the Commons.

Acting like a Poundland dictator by proroguing Parliament alienated even his most slavish supporters. Relying on the unelected mendacious Leave campaigner Dominic Cummings to sort out this mess for him was a fatal mistake. Cummings was reported by the Daily Telegraph as saying Johnson's so called Brexit negotiations are a 'sham'.

The Tories have turned against Johnson, even Brexit voters who expressed support are disgusted by his actions and his incompetence.

Sep. 5, 2019
12:05 pm JST

cleo - And Leave would howl that it wasn't fair because a scrape-through 52% majority based on lies and more lies wasn't enough to trigger earth-shaking changes.

Why would anyone expect a democracy to follow the will of the people just because a 52% majority of voters told them to do so? Many elected representatives refused to leave during May's term, and they're still refusing to leave during Johnson's term. It seems that it's the hurt feelings of the 48% minority that is truly important. As every progressive knows, if one person objects to the actions of others, then everyone else must submit to the demands of the individual.

Sep. 5, 2019
12:28 pm JST

For non-UK readers willing to listen, Britain has not left the EU because the negotiated deal was voted down by Brexiteers themselves, notably the ERG wing of the Conservative Party. They gambled on getting a more extreme version of Brexit. This gamble stretched things out and is now blowing up spectacularly. The opposition tried to pass various weaker forms of Brexit through indicative votes back in March, but they were voted down too, again by Brexiteers pushing for a different version.

Even if every ERG member and every Brexit-supporting Tory had voted for May's deal, it still wouldn't have passed.

The numbers weren't enough because of the Remain Tory members who voted against May's deal. Remain Tory members argued that staying in the EU was better than May's deal.

Sep. 5, 2019
12:30 pm JST

Boris can make a deal with Trump...No sorry UK is still a member state and I am to believe will always be a member state of the European Union.

Yes Boris Johnson will return to Brexit summit for Oct. 17 and will request an extension. However this time the commission could insist on a minimum time limit. I would in there position to shore up there Multiannual financial framework......A year yes 12 months minimum.

Sep. 5, 2019
12:31 pm JST

arrestpaulToday 12:05 pm JST

Why would anyone expect a democracy to follow the will of the people just because a 52% majority of voters told them to do so?

If that referendum had been legally binding the UK would be out of the EU. If the pro-Leave camp had come up with a clear and workable plan for Brexit it might have voted on and approved. Neither was the case.

Sep. 5, 2019
12:39 pm JST

Sep. 5, 2019
12:40 pm JST

Why would anyone expect a democracy to follow the will of the people just because a 52% majority of voters told them to do so?

This would make sense if it were a binding referendum. It’s not.

Why should people who didn’t participate due to it being non-binding be bound to it when they had no say in it. If it was to be binding, it should have been binding. It wasn’t binding and therefore isn’t binding.

Sep. 5, 2019
01:22 pm JST

Tactical.

Such things are usually lost on the electorate. If they don't vote for an election on Friday, or try to force it to take place after Oct 31 , to Labour voters, it will look like cowardice. It isn't a a sustainable pocitical position.

Sep. 5, 2019
01:23 pm JST

Boris can make a deal with Trump that's lucrative for the U.K.

Any deal made with Trump will be Merka First and will be lucrative only for the fat cats who are eager to escape from the EU's crack-down on corporate tax evasion (Yes, looking at you, Farage and Rees-Mogg).

The clueless turkeys who voted for Christmas will get chlorinated chicken, hormone-laced beef and plastic yellow 'cheese'. And horror of horrors, please don't let it happen, Hersey's 'chocolate'.

There is no cloud that has no silver lining, of course. The one good thing that will come from a 'lucrative' deal with Trump is that employment opportunities for medical workers will increase as the UK starts to battle a food poisoning epidemic of US proportions (currently 10 times more food poisoning cases in the US than in the UK).

There will also be more opportunities for ambulance-chasing lawyers to get compensation for affected families.

Sep. 5, 2019
01:36 pm JST

Tactical.

Such things are usually lost on the electorate. If they don't vote for an election on Friday, or try to force it to take place after Oct 31 , to Labour voters, it will look like cowardice. It isn't a a sustainable pocitical position.

It could be the wrong tactic but to call it cowardice is naive or partisan.

My take is waiting and watching what a travesty Johnson is as he bounces around is a good tactic.

Honestly, Boris Johnson is irreverent, a political moment in time.

A PM is not irrelevant and this moment in time is one of the most crucial in recent history.

I don’t understand your use of ‘on the other hand’ here. Are you saying the leader of the opposition is more relevant than the PM and is not ‘a political moment in time’?

Sep. 5, 2019
01:49 pm JST

Jimizo I believe you could be the same age as my father and hold concurrent political beliefs. Zichi, and Cleo are not maybe dissimilar I am a tad upset and am using unnecessary language time to walk away.

Sep. 5, 2019
01:58 pm JST

Sep. 5, 2019
02:06 pm JST

It just gets worse and worse. What's the point in all of this bickering and delaying?

The bill would require the government to ask the EU to delay Brexit until Jan 31, 2020, if it can't secure a deal with the bloc by late October.

We won't get a deal worth accepting. The EU have already said, repeatedly, that it won't renegotiate the deal it has presented. The deal that parliament already rejected 3 times and prompting Theresa May to give up as PM. Parliament knows this, so why are they trying to delude themselves that a better deal will arise? Our options are to take the deal that no-one wants, or go without a deal. Delaying until January won't do any good. No new deal will arise. There's no point in dragging this on indefinitely.

Sep. 5, 2019
02:07 pm JST

Tangerine2000Today 01:47 pm JST

@Simon Foston

See 1:29pm

The Government deliberately filibustered for two reasons.

Except that it appears no filibuster has taken place and the bill to prevent a no-deal Brexit will be ready for the Royal Assent by 5pm on Friday. I'm not sure how that differs from what your "reliable sources" say, but if one of them is Jacob Lounge Lizard Rees-Mogg I would treat them with caution.

Sep. 5, 2019
02:17 pm JST

An attempt was made at a filibuster with 100 amendments by the likes of Michael Howard, but they've since given up. It's passed the Lords.

It seems like some people want to believe that this is another Conservative masterstroke. We'll know soon enough. Even if an election happens, Johnson is performing so badly that its hard to see him getting a majority. Expect to see lots of PMQs reruns. In three days in Parliament, Johnson has gone from asset to liability. He'll also be up against all of the government experts' warnings of shortages in the Yellowhammer document. Assuming of course that leaking it wasn't another Conservative masterstroke....

Sep. 5, 2019
03:01 pm JST

Except that it appears no filibuster has taken place and the bill to prevent a no-deal Brexit will be ready for the Royal Assent by 5pm on Friday. I

They was a filibuster under way but they agreed to end it and let three bill pass. From what I understand it will be for an earlier election, but I'm not totally sure if this - it hasn't been confirmed.

Sep. 5, 2019
03:32 pm JST

The only person who can ask the EU for an extension is the PM, whoever that may be. Boris will not do it willingly so he could simply resign. Only the Conservative Party can elect their own leader, and the majority of them are pro-Brexit, so they'd simply elect Boris-2. That situation could be kept up until past October 31st when BREXIT has already happened.

Sep. 5, 2019
04:03 pm JST

Tangerine2000 -

I get the distinct impression that any source which is not perfectly in line with your political view is automatically dismissed.

Nah, just the ones I check and see are full of what drops from the bovine bottom. I read the tweet you linked to - claims of 'reliable sources', but not a single source in sight. Just wishful thinking. And at the bottom of the thread, a retweet from Andrew Adonis - 'Government chief whip announces cave-in at 1:20am - they are lifting the filibuster after 10 hours, with a commitment that the EU bill will pass by 5pm Friday. We have stopped No Deal and we can now go home.'

After years of practice on emails from Nigerian princes and wealthy widows looking to donate their fortunes, I think I'm pretty good at spotting groundless rubbish that it's a waste of time to read. Like Standup4Brexit and Moggmentum.

Sep. 5, 2019
06:51 pm JST

Sep. 5, 2019
06:54 pm JST

The only ones for a complete break away are older people harking for a time when brittania ruled the waves and insular xenophobes.

This is untrue and unfair. Over 17 million people voted to leave (including my parents and many well-educated friends), are they all so? Would it surprise you if people had other reasons apart from xenophobia dreams of empire? I have never met anyone in favour of Leave who resembles your uninformed definition.

Sep. 5, 2019
07:19 pm JST

You know once upon a time Socialism had a heart, Tony Benn, Peter Shore, Barbara Castle they would never run and hide behind the sofa like my Dad did once watching Doctor Who, sorry Dad, what is left is jeremy corbyn a frightened old fool.

Sep. 5, 2019
08:10 pm JST

Sep. 5, 2019
08:14 pm JST

Boris-2. That situation could be kept up until past October 31st when BREXIT has already happened.

actually no it is now law that Brexit can only be concluded with a deal, Boris said hed follow the law and the constitution, any future PM that refuses to follow the law will be met with legal action. sorry there is now no legal option available for a No deal Brexit.

Sep. 5, 2019
08:58 pm JST

Sep. 5, 2019
09:08 pm JST

I have never met anyone in favour of Leave who resembles your uninformed definition.

Neither have I. In truth, they don't exist.

They do.

I agree with your idea that all Brexiteers don’t fit that description ( my mother doesn’t fit that description) but have a listen to Majiid Nawaz and Nigel Farage on LBC. Some of the callers are pretty sinister in their ideas.

Not all Brexiteers are xenophobes or racists, but you can be sure that the lion’s share of racists and xenophobes voted out. Farage when he was in charge of UKIP was on almost permanent damage limitation alert as one headbanger after another came out with something outrageous.

Sep. 5, 2019
10:00 pm JST

Sep. 5, 2019
10:09 pm JST

Sep. 5, 2019
10:59 pm JST

Parliament is doing all it can to defy the will of the people. The elite and corporations are trying to wrest control of the nations destiny from the citizens. Johnson is doing the right thing by holding the politicians to account.

Sep. 5, 2019
10:59 pm JST

I have heard plenty of people who call up LBC pretending to be Brexiteers, but who are in fact Remainers

Oh, the racist Brexiteers who call up are in fact remainers trying to make Brexiteers look bad. You have evidence of this of course.

Were the racists and bigots in UKIP also remainers who joined to make Brexiteers look bad?

Farage set up parties to the right of the Tories - the furthest right of all parties. It doesn’t mean all in those parties are racists but it is pretty obvious that this is the place where the racists are going to flock.

Sep. 5, 2019
11:27 pm JST

Not all Brexiteers are xenophobes or racists, but you can be sure that the lion’s share of racists and xenophobes voted out.

Yeah, I'm sure of that too, probably almost to a man. It justs gets a tedious hearing folk label the best part of 17 million ordinary citizens as uneducated, xenophobic, gullible etc without really knowing what they think. Like you said, it's our mums who voted to leave. Some people even think the words on the side of a bus caused it.

When all is said and done, they just voted to leave an economic union. We've made such hard work of this, I hope we fare better when a real crisis arrives.

Parliament is doing all it can to defy the will of the people.

It isn't. Brexit will happen, it's a debate about how. We don't have the luxury of an executive order. It would be interesting to see how your leader would do if he had to face his peers as often as a PM does.

Sep. 5, 2019
11:38 pm JST

Farage set up parties to the right of the Tories - the furthest right of all parties. It doesn’t mean all in those parties are racists but it is pretty obvious that this is the place where the racists are going to flock.

I am intrigued that you think that racist people only seem to exist the right of the political spectrum. Or you think that the majority of racists are usually on the right.

Sep. 5, 2019
11:46 pm JST

The vast majority of the 17 million people who voted to leave are not extreme right voters nor racists, they are just people who want to leave the European Union which has been comlpletely drenched in corruption since the day it was founded.

The big question is will they be better for it and is a hard Brexit the best way to go about it ?

Sep. 6, 2019
12:02 am JST

I am intrigued that you think that racist people only seem to exist the right of the political spectrum. Or you think that the majority of racists are usually on the right.

There are racists on the left - I know a few personally. I would say that the lion’s share of racists seem to be on the right. UKIP had a disproportionate number of racist headbangers and bigots as a minor party. Talk of ‘Bongo-bongo land’ and shooting poofters was a very UKIP phenomenon.

I’m intrigued by your claim that the racists and bigots calling into LBC are remainers posing as Brexiteers to make Brexiteers look bad. This claim requires evidence.

Sep. 6, 2019
01:24 am JST

It's like the U.K. never truly learned to be a normal sovereign nation. It can either be an empire that executes internal sovereignty and oppresses others, or it can be a vassal of a foreign multi-national authority in Brussels, but it can't simply function like a normal country. What's up with that?

Sep. 6, 2019
01:37 am JST

Theresa May has made it impossible for the U.K. to deal with the EU. The current agreement, according to her, the U.K. gets nothing, no assurance of any fair treatment, it's like staying in the EU, paying your dues, and everything else you don't even get a vote now. So now you're going to be ruled over by the EU's authority without even being able to be part of the process and determining what that authority does. That was her idea of a good deal. Because she was never a Brexiteer anyway, she was a Remainer.

It's like the U.K. never truly learned to be a normal sovereign nation. It can either be an empire that executes internal sovereignty and oppresses others, or it can be a vassal of a foreign multi-national authority in Brussels, but it can't simply function like a normal country. What's up with that?

It can also be a vassal of the USA - as it frequently has been - but I imagine you're okay with that.

SerranoToday 01:13 am JST

It's always amusing to see insults hurled by those who can't admit when they're wrong.

They might if they can be convinced they're wrong. Think you're convincing anyone here?

Sep. 6, 2019
06:56 am JST

Simon Foston - More self-righteous cant about the "will of the people."

Why would a citizen of a democracy want to follow the "will of the people"? Maybe it's because the "will of the people" is exactly what a democracy is based on.

It ought to be. It Britain and Japan however, politicians can get elected by winning less than 50% of the vote and in the USA the Electoral College can give the presidency to the candidate that loses the popular vote. So why is "the will of the people" so important in this situation when most of the time it doesn't matter all that much?

Sep. 6, 2019
06:58 am JST

Simon Foston - If that referendum had been legally binding the UK would be out of the EU. If the pro-Leave camp had come up with a clear and workable plan for Brexit it might have voted on and approved. Neither was the case.

Since the results of the leave/remain referendum became known, it does not appear that any pro-Leave plan would have had a sufficient number of elected representatives supporting the will of the people. Month after month, after month of foot-dragging, and whining, by elected reps who refuse to accept the demand of the will of the people.

Sep. 6, 2019
07:59 am JST

arrestpaulToday 06:58 am JST

Since the results of the leave/remain referendum became known, it does not appear that any pro-Leave plan would have had a sufficient number of elected representatives supporting the will of the people. Month after month, after month of foot-dragging, and whining, by elected reps who refuse to accept the demand of the will of the people.

It's funny that, because there was also a general election in 2017 and the will of the people didn't exactly deliver a majority of hardcore pro-Brexit MPs.

Sep. 7, 2019
07:03 am JST

Simon Foston - It's funny that, because there was also a general election in 2017 and the will of the people didn't exactly deliver a majority of hardcore pro-Brexit MPs.

Exactly. The voters have elected, and in some cases reelected, their elected representatives. The bottomline is that it's the voters who are responsible for the state that Parliament currently finds itself in.

At what point does the results of a national (is that the right term?) referendum override the will of a MP's own constituents?

Sep. 7, 2019
09:26 pm JST

We had a referendum here in Massachusetts to legalize recreational marijuana. It passed.

However, the state dragged its feet and it took the better part of 3 years before you could actually buy marijuana. For awhile, it looked as if they were just stonewalling the voters, that they were never going to allow it.

During that time, there was a lot of sentiment expressed to elected officials on op-ed pages of newspapers and whatnot from people basically saying "I voted AGAINST legalization, but I am much more concerned about living in a society where a government that thinks it knows best disregards the will of the people, than I am concerned about living in a society in which marijuana is legal."

I don't see the same in the UK. The Remainers seem more interested in winning however they can than in their democracy being respected by the ruling class. They don't seem to realize that this disregard for a vote could just as easily happen again with their side on the losing end of things.

And that's more likely to happen now that the government sees that it won't be held accountable for telling voters to go pound sand.

Sep. 8, 2019
07:11 am JST

CaptDingleheimerSep. 7 09:26 pm JST

We had a referendum here in Massachusetts to legalize recreational marijuana. It passed.

However, the state dragged its feet and it took the better part of 3 years before you could actually buy marijuana. For awhile, it looked as if they were just stonewalling the voters, that they were never going to allow it.

During that time, there was a lot of sentiment expressed to elected officials on op-ed pages of newspapers and whatnot from people basically saying "I voted AGAINST legalization, but I am much more concerned about living in a society where a government that thinks it knows best disregards the will of the people, than I am concerned about living in a society in which marijuana is legal."

I don't see the same in the UK.

I don't suppose you do. A whole country departing the EU is a rather more complex issue than the legalisation of a drug in a single US State, and the Leave supporters don't even know what sort of terms they want to leave on. The 2016 referendum merely advised Parliament, also voted in by the will of the people but more recently than 2016, on what to do and its failure to act just reflects the lack of a clear Brexit agenda. I imagine the pro-legalisation people in Massachusetts had a better idea of what they were doing.

StrangerlandSep. 7 07:16 am JST

"At what point does the results of a national (is that the right term?) referendum override the will of a MP's own constituents?"

The point is when the referendum is binding of course.

Exactly. In which case Britain would be out already. However I'm not sure if there is any legally binding referendum result that Parliament can't legally unbind if enough MPs vote to do so.

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