Wednesday, May 17, 2017

This is a direct quote from the Liberal Democrat manifesto published today -

"Keeping the UK in the EU will remove the basis for the SNP’s divisive proposed referendum on independence."
With the exception of the word "divisive", I don't think anyone in the SNP would disagree with that. The one and only reason another independence referendum has been proposed relatively soon after the last one is that Scotland is being dragged out of the EU against its will. In the highly unlikely event that the United Kingdom never leaves the EU, the grounds for holding a referendum in the near future will no longer exist.

But of course the reverse is also true. If keeping the UK in the EU removes the basis for a referendum, failing to keep the UK in the EU will by definition ensure that the basis for a referendum remains intact. The Liberal Democrats should be congratulated for implicitly (and probably accidentally) conceding that vitally important democratic point.

48 comments:

Reading this blog is like daily visiting a gullivers travels theme park: "there to your left is james kelly commenting intelligently on politics, to the right - the mentally inferior bbc/ mainstream press commentators , hosts and headline writers etc. You can see aldo Dressed like a human, but whatever confronted with a question you will notice that instead of responding with fax ta he just starts wanking on his little nub, over there is GWC throwing poop at anyone trying to listen to mr K , be careful ladies, GWC likes to ligy skirts to see if you are wesring panties! In the middle of the road is Professor Curtice, He is actually smarter on our tests than anyone, but he is held back by his friends who let substance abuse ruin their brains. He seems to want to join mr kelly but cant decide between his friends and the facts, so he just wanders around. "

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I had a thought along similar lines to James's blog today at First Ministers Questions.When Ruth nae Truth Davidson said that Teaching First is great 40 countries in the world Including England use it,I immediately thought well surely that means 200 don't use it so why is this meant to mean SNP baad after all we are in the majority.

"SNP’s divisive proposed referendum" - that phrase annoys me. It is not the SNP's anymore, nor is it a proposal. The Scottish parliament voted, and requested an article 30 order. It is the Scottish parliaments 'divisive' referendum.

The focus of this debate will be the Scottish parliamentary elections in 2021. Unambiguous sep majority equals indyref2. No sep majority takes it off the table for 5-10 years, at least. No democrat can argue with that proposal as it places the will of the Scottish people front and centre, when all relevant information is to hand.

Just to clarify 'unambiguous sep majority'. This means the election of at least 65 MSPs having guaranteed an indyref in their election manifesto. Get that and you'll be due your referendum. Don't get it, and you wont be. Very simple.

Not a mandate though. Both manifestos were vague, with the Green party document laying out conditions that haven't been met.

It could also be argued that brexit constitutes a material change in circumstances since the Holyrood election, thereby rendering the result of said election out of date. The material change argument works both ways, you know.

Why the rush to get it done anyway? Does the SNP regard the next few years as a crucial window in time beyond which independence will no longer be possible? If so, that would be the will of the Scottish people, would it not?

Theory and philosophy aside, the sheer practicality of this means no indyref for many years. We've got to do brexit and let it bed in then have an election to see what people think. That's a long time off. If we get into 2020 with this still a live issue, you just know that Theresa is going to kick it back to the following spring. It's pretty much a stick on. So may as well dry your eyes.

It's not Theresa May's decision, unless you do think this is an autocracy. When I really have YEARS to spare, I'll explain to you the difference between 'checks and balances' and 'making up the rules as you go on'.

There are few things more risible in global politics than Unionists' sheer curl-up-in-a-ball-and-suck-their-thumbs terror at the thought of the next indy referendum. Imagine looking around you at a world like this and 'Pleeeeeeease let them not get their vote!' being your political obsession. Imagine carrying that kind of craven, pinched 'worldview' around with you. The wretched of the earth, indeed.

I see you say Westminster is a democratically elected government how the hell can 30% ruling 70% can be called democratic,and the UK has NEVER been a democracy.Scotland pre-union was close when land was clan controlled and best used by the people.

Love, Love, Love.Love, Love, Love.Love, Love, Love.There's nothing you can do that can't be done.Nothing you can sing that can't be sung.Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game.It's easy.Nothing you can make that can't be made.No one you can save that can't be saved.Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be you in time.It's easy.All you need is love.All you need is love.All you need is love, love.Love is all you need.Nothing you can know that isn't known.Nothing you can see that isn't shown.Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.It's easy.All you need is love (All together, now!)All you need is love (Everybody!)All you need is love, love. Love is all you need (love is all you need).

Love, Love, Love.Love, Love, Love.Love, Love, Love.There's nothing you can do that can't be done.Nothing you can sing that can't be sung.Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game.It's easy.Nothing you can make that can't be made.No one you can save that can't be saved.Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be you in time.It's easy.All you need is love.All you need is love.All you need is love, love.Love is all you need.Nothing you can know that isn't known.Nothing you can see that isn't shown.Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.It's easy.All you need is love (All together, now!)All you need is love (Everybody!)All you need is love, love. Love is all you need (love is all you need).

Is there no way we can get this GWC2 character banned? He ruins every single thread. I don't mind Unionists in here but when he cites bigotry and rubbish every thread, is that not the definition of a troll?

Kevin, our generous host has explained the difficulty of banning The Thing That Should Not Be on many occasions. Upshot is, it can't be done. Just do what the rest of us do, and either ignore or mock the Tory shill.

As the great Gandhi himself once said, "bitch be trippin" But that's no excuse to cast him into purgatory even though that's the ways he's going himself anyway assuming there's a soul. As an aside, the word 'Tory' is taken from the word 'Purgatory'. Broken down - purge-a-tory - which quickly became untenable after it filled up in about a week. Thus, the Lord allows them to roam the earth freely, fucking shit up. And we just have to live with that. Which brings us back to the UK and to this blog and to your point.... Alas, he roams amongst us. Might I suggest loving him instead? It can't be any worse than indulging him, plus it has the uplifting benefit of getting on his tits.

Love, Love, Love.Love, Love, Love.Love, Love, Love.There's nothing you can do that can't be done.Nothing you can sing that can't be sung.Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game.It's easy.Nothing you can make that can't be made.No one you can save that can't be saved.Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be you in time.It's easy.All you need is love.All you need is love.All you need is love, love.Love is all you need.Nothing you can know that isn't known.Nothing you can see that isn't shown.Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.It's easy.All you need is love (All together, now!)All you need is love (Everybody!)All you need is love, love. Love is all you need (love is all you need).

Accept the love, man. Let it fill you to the brim until you can hold no more and it spurts out of you like that bit in Alien. He twitched a lot afterwards, did you see it? Nice touch. If you could do similar it would look great. We'd get loads of YouTube hits. But the most important thing is the love. Get it up ye.

Its a pity you cant act like an adult I say act because it is obvious to me it would not come natural to you.You really do ruin many discussions with banal comments from a yob mentality.I do feel sorry for the rest of us.

Yeah but it's interesting from a psychological point of view too. There are a few easy techniques that will rile a person up, and they're being deployed consistently here. Under normal circumstances when a person/group is accused of being something they aren't or doing something they haven't it causes anger and anxiety and sometimes fear. Simply dismissing any counter-claim exacerbates the anger and anxiety and escalates any exchange. Persisting incessantly with the accusations/dismissals leads to further negative escalation and this will continue until there's an outburst-type response. That's all he's hoping for here - a highly negative reaction. Why? Who knows. Maybe just for fun. But there's something else at play here, because the consistent way the accusations are being deployed regardless of poster or subject also tells us something about the issuer - This is either being done by a group of people with a specific remit (likelihood maybe 20% or lower, I'd guess) or it's being done by a single person in "projection" mode (likelihood 80% or higher). In other words it's a slightly troubled bloke laying his own traits on others. On one hand I don't like what he's doing because it affects others negatively, but on the other hand I just love seeing it in action. Security services the world over test their modelling techniques on stuff like this. They pick out extreme posters and set to work mapping their make up. Quite often they'll be doing it on the clock to simulate some time sensitive situation, so they can't just rely on historical algorithm analysis to provide the answers, they'll have to interact with the poster directly using triggering gambits to try and return a predicted response. There are some immensely creative people behind this work. It's hugely impressive now. Profiling has come such a long long way in the last 20 years.

He's the sort that my mother (rest her soul) would've called "soft in the head" or something similar, but she'd also have told me to stay well away from him, and if my ball went in his garden she'd have gone round to get it with a rolling pin, just in case.

But Scotland isn't a country. I know we call it that. Some people call big arnie the terminator. But he isn't actually a machine from the future. He's just an actor in Holywood. Scotland is a country in much the same way as arnie is a terminator i.e. it is not.