Yes, ARP copied the ladder filter in their 1006 module for the 2500. But you left out the fact that moog copied ARP's patented 2 voice KBD. And you fell victim to the myth that either one sued the other over this. They both recognized their own fault and turned the other cheek.

ARP did most certainly not copy Moog. And they were not sued by Moog. They made a copy of a Moog ladder filter to include on a synth where almost every other design decision was as different from Moog as they could make it.

see above.

While we at it, ARP is also claimed to have put their 4012 VCF for the 2600 in epoxy to hide that they were again using the moog patented ladder filter.
That was in 1971. However, in 1970 they released this module shown below. Do you really think that a year later -and after the 'conversation' describef above, that they would fwwl any need to hide that the 4012 was a moog circuit? No. They covered their circuits in epoxy for thermal issues and also because that was standard practice for those kind of modules at the time. You can see this in all the discrete OpAmps still found in studio racks.

Let's not keep these old myths alive any longer.

Here's the 1006 filter/VCA module. Can you see the ladder filter?
Sure looks like they made a huge effort to cover it up, and keep moog from noticing

Boy, this really sounds like something we should be caring about. I’m really glad I only check this thread once every 20 pages or so...

Just to throw in my two cents as a nobody 50 pages deep into the thread and probably just repeating what people with more clout than I have said.

Behringer is mostly fine. They're not infringing on any patents, they're not trying to pass off these designs as their own. An affordable System 100 soundalike? Good, get it done yesterday. That modular system is the stuff of legend and building a "real" one is laughably unaffordable in no small part because like 75% of the physically extant Roland modules are imbedded in Hans Zimmer's wall, and that Roland has said they have no interest in "chasing the ghost" of old analog hardware.

Honestly what Moog is doing with their modular gear is way, way, way worse to my sensibilities. Slinging the System-35 and IIIp for 35k (a solid four grand higher than median annual US salary pre-tax). Seriously, wtf. The only thing they have on offer there is the brand. The IIIp especially. Voiced by ten unijunction oscillators with no tempco on circuitry so old it's obsoletion apparently became obsolete. The System-35 isn't much better, the 921's are "fully featured" and add tempco but everyone will still say they don't sound as good despite being an identical core to the 901, just with sliiiiiightly lower output volume. The clincher, apparently. Oh, and yeah, sink triggers. Because that's helpful.

Now THAT'S offensive. You could get an infinitely better dotcom system with like 3x the functionality, waaaaay better core sound with modern amenities like a more stable power supply voltage for one, for less than half the price.

Or you can get a tiny little Behringer version for arguably, the price the circuits themselves are probably worth compared to the near boundless insanity out there in the euro format.

The ookie thing with Behringer is that the prices aren't lowlowlow because of the fair wage afforded to Chinese labor, so something to chew on. The guy they've employed to look over shoulders on the factory floor to make sure they actually use the matched transistor pairs probably comes away with a solid payday though.

Sorry this has been chewing at the back of my head for months since I stumbled on an old blurb of Alessandro Cortini having the nerve to say Sputnik Modular "ripped off" Buchla's designs, like... Eff off bro. At that threshold you best be writing rage mail to Samsung, Sony, Vizio et cetera for not paying enough tribute to Philo Farnsworth lest I begin to think you're full of crap. Even Buchla forgot about his old circuits. They also cost 2 grand a piece and this is just basic supply and demand. They're not forgeries, it's made pretty explicit that these are not made by their respective progenitors.

This stuff just bugs me. I personally wish there was a little more advancement/refinement of existing concepts, even just subtle things like what Roger Arrick did with the 960. But people seem to really like their straight clones... And most people don't have like 5 figures to drop on ancient tech just because some things sound better when they're objectively inferior to other options.

What, you don't like to encourage noobs to express their opinion? While I *DO* agree with most of what was said in that post, I wasn't actually endorsing the poster's opinion, just that it was good to be an eloquent participant.

To be a shill, I would have to be associated with Behringer in some way, or maybe on a mission to get people to like Behringer. I simply do not have any beef with the brand, or it's practices. That may change in the future.

What, you don't like to encourage noobs to express their opinion? While I *DO* agree with most of what was said in that post, I wasn't actually endorsing the poster's opinion, just that it was good to be an eloquent participant.

To be a shill, I would have to be associated with Behringer in some way, or maybe on a mission to get people to like Behringer. I simply do not have any beef with the brand, or it's practices. That may change in the future.

What, you don't like to encourage noobs to express their opinion? While I *DO* agree with most of what was said in that post, I wasn't actually endorsing the poster's opinion, just that it was good to be an eloquent participant.

To be a shill, I would have to be associated with Behringer in some way, or maybe on a mission to get people to like Behringer. I simply do not have any beef with the brand, or it's practices. That may change in the future.

To keep it relevant, behringer still is a shit company. They make good synths, but have really shitty practices.

But they're so much fun!

I like my boog, honestly think it's a great little synth - also have their x32 rack mixer and that's really good too.

That said, the recent actions they've took against journalists have ensured I'll never buy anything from behringer again, sadly. They were on a winning streak and decided to fuck it up because Uli is an egotistical manchild.

I feel like a bit of my life force was lost in even making it to page 16...and worse....the thought of other people’s life force getting zapped when we all probably need it the most during Earth lockdown adds to the dumpster fire.

And worse...I’ve added to the dumpster fire by writing this (it’s written now so might as well submit it)

I feel like a bit of my life force was lost in even making it to page 16...and worse....the thought of other people’s life force getting zapped when we all probably need it the most during Earth lockdown adds to the dumpster fire.

And worse...I’ve added to the dumpster fire by writing this (it’s written now so might as well submit it)