Netanyahu delivers predictable speech fear-mongering on Iran

This year at the United Nations General Assembly, there were no props of drawings with red lines on them. But aside from that, nothing much had changed in Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s address to diplomats. The Israeli prime minister kept hammering away at what has become an utterly predictable point: Iran is on the verge of obtaining nuclear weapons and they pose an existential threat to Israel. He opened up his speech with a reference to a “nuclear-armed Iran that seeks our destruction.”

Netanyahu’s speech was all about the Islamic Republic, and it was filled with the typical rhetorical flourishes the world has come to expect. “Rouhani thinks he can have his yellowcake and eat it too,” the prime minister said. He hit the familiar points: the Holocaust; the scourge of anti-Semitism; Iran’s sponsorship of overseas violence; and a demand for the Islamic Republic to capitulate to Israeli demands. You can watch it all here:

What was different this time was that Iranian President Hassan Rouhani had come to town the week before, and had wowed diplomats with a conciliatory message. Gone was Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s questioning of the Holocaust, his insinuation that 9/11 was an American plot. Instead, Rouhani came with a message that his country was not developing nuclear weapons, and was ready for negotiations with the West and the U.S. Last Thursday, Secretary of State John Kerry met face to face with the Iranian foreign minister, and then the historic phone call between President Obama and Rouhani took place on Friday.

So Netanyahu came to spoil the positive atmosphere, and he didn’t disappoint. He clearly wishes Ahmadinejad was still in power. “Israel will never acquiesce to nuclear arms in the hands of a rogue regime that repeatedly promises to wipe us off the map. Against such a threat, Israel will have no choice but to defend itself,” he said.

First, cease all uranium enrichment. This is called for by several Security Council resolutions. Second, remove from Iran’s territory the stockpiles of enriched uranium. Third, dismantle the infrastructure for nuclear breakout capability, including the underground facility at Qom and the advanced centrifuges in Natanz.

And, four, stop all work at the heavy water reactor in Iraq aimed at the production of plutonium. These steps would put an end to Iran’s nuclear weapons program and eliminate its breakout capability.

And Netanyahu had demands for a different audience: the rest of the world. Here’s what he wants them to do:

First, keep up the sanctions. If Iran advances its nuclear weapons program during negotiations, strengthen the sanctions.

Second, don’t agree to a partial deal. A partial deal would lift international sanctions that have taken years to put in place in exchange for cosmetic concessions that will take only weeks for Iran to reverse.

Third, lift the sanctions only when Iran fully dismantles its nuclear weapons program. My friends, the international community has Iran on the ropes. If you want to knock out Iran’s nuclear weapons program peacefully, don’t let up the pressure. Keep it up.

Netanyahu eventually got to the Palestinians, but only devoted about 20 lines to them. He repeated his demand that “Palestinians must finally recognize the Jewish state, and Israel’s security needs must be met.”

The Israeli leader may be more comfortable talking about Iran than Palestine, but this year he was boxed in to a corner by the new Iranian leadership. Still, his words carry immense weight in the U.S., and they will hang over the air of future talks between Iran and the West.

About Alex Kane

Alex Kane is a freelance journalist who focuses on Israel/Palestine and civil liberties. Follow him on Twitter @alexbkane.

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193 Responses

Good summary, though I think the overall tone was as important as his specific demands.

Netanyahu had not a single positive word for anyone. The speech was 100% Iran and 100% negative. The fabrications were obvious (Iran building ICBMs to “strike this very city”), of course, but more than that was the simple unending flow of hatred. The speech also highlighted how Netanyahu views the UN and the international community at large: it is solely a tool used for smiting his enemies, and if it fails in that then it is worthless and Israel will act “alone.” Strangest of all, it ended with weird messianism, talking of prophecies fulfilled and enternal states. That was completely off the deep end (unless the target was American evangelicals, which it likely was).

Quick game: An international leader repeatedly goes to the UN solely to denounce a single other country, making threats and pouring out hatred in religious terms. Who was it? A year ago, one might have answered Ahmadinejad. Today, Netanyahu easily claims the crown.

@ BillM ” An international leader repeatedly goes to the UN solely to denounce a single other country, making threats and pouring out hatred in religious terms. Who was it? A year ago, one might have answered Ahmadinejad. “

The speech was highly inflammatory… not a diplomatic bone in this man’s body.

NYTimes had a very small piece on his speech, which was overshadowed by the Shutdown coverage I am sure.

Obama needs to remember that we live in a small world now… whatever he says to Bibi to ‘reassure’ him is of course passed along to the rest of the world. Earlier on his Twitter account, Mr. Zarif alluded to the Obama-Netanyahu meeting on Monday in a message that read: “President Obama needs consistency to promote mutual confidence. Flip-flop destroys trust and undermines US credibility.”

I’m interested in knowing how many were present for the speech, which was the last iirc… surely everyone had gone home.

What I found most interesting in Netanyahu’s speech was that while Rouhani said the time of the tribal feuds is over, Netanyahu presented himself as the leader of the tribe of the Maccabees in a tribal bloodfeud of biblical proportions with the tribe of the Persians:

“What a disgrace, what a disgrace. The descendants of the Macabees lie in the mud powerless to defend themselves.” … Together we’ve transformed a bludgeoned Jewish people, left for dead, into a vibrant, thriving nation, a defending itself with the courage of modern Maccabees, developing limitless possibilities for the future. In our time the Biblical prophecies are being realized.

I’m not sure how the feeling of others is, but my view is that fighting tribal bloodfeuds in the 21. century doesn’t sound statesman-like, to me, it sounds more like archaic and medieval madness.

“archaic and medieval madness” And this strategy seems to keep working. Playing on the myths and superstitions. Always so amazing to me that somewhat educated people believe in this Biblical schmlical hooey.

His speech was filled with hatred, false claims, mis translations and threats

predictable, well that goes without saying. maybe it was just my imagination but i couldn’t help thinking the way he kept furtively raising his eyes to the audience to see was there anyone actually taking in his BS, in fact most of the audience look bored out of their minds.
the applause at the end was the lamest i ever seen, besides the few israelis clapping was there anyone else?

I squeezed and squagged with vigour no less
the assembled before me political mess
had it it all locked up tight ,sealed in lead
when out the top genie popped head
words of thunder escaped up into the air
formed dark clouds of heavy despair
on the horizon they slowly gathered
the word charade easily shattered

How dare he dictate to Iran and the rest of the world when he and his wittle country have not even declared their nukes, nor signed the NPT.

“Third, lift the sanctions only when Iran fully dismantles its nuclear weapons program. My friends, the international community has Iran on the ropes. If you want to knock out Iran’s nuclear weapons program peacefully, don’t let up the pressure. Keep it up.”

BDS this liar and his nutso followers NOW. Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program”.

Iran is not “on the ropes”, Israel is. And his disrespect toward the INDIGENOUS people of Palestine should be severely dealt with.

Can it get any more insane to have a leader of a country that sits on massive stockpiles of nuclear, biological and chemicals demanding that Iran a signatory of the NPT stop enriching uranium up to the level that they are legally able.

I saw the BBC clip on this. It was a hoot. As Netanyahu took the podium there was a distinct smattering of warm applause. This was mystifying, because all of the delegates I could see were sitting on their hands. Then the camera panned to the back of the hall. There were a small bunch of guys standing against the rear wall clapping like crazy.

The NY Times naturally omits the actual reception of Netanyahu’s speech, but Haaretz’s Barak Ravid was not so bashful. The following excerpt is courtesy of War in Context:

One by one, Netanyahu’s donors, associates and supporters flocked in to watch. Casino magnate and owner of the Hebrew daily Yisrael Hayom, Sheldon Adelson, was followed by American-Jewish attorney Alan Dershowitz, former advisor Dore Gold, family friend Zeev Rubinstein and others. Last to enter was Sara Netanyahu, who took her place near the podium. When Netanyahu made his entrance, in front of a half-empty, drowsy hall, his friends, advisors, supporters and entourage all rose to their feet and applauded for several minutes. Still, the fans the in stands hardly helped. . .

RE: “He [Netanyahu] had four demands for Iran, which amount to a total cave-in. . .” ~ Alex Kane

MY COMMENT: In other words, Netanyahu insists that Iran be a “frayer”*! ! !

FROM quora.com:

[EXCERPTS] There is one correct definition of the term frayer. It means “sucker” or “mark,” in the sense that somebody is a sucker if he goes along with the rules when nobody else is following them, or a mark if he’s a naive target for thieves. . .. . . In Israeli life and society, the worst thing anybody can ever be is a frayer, and most people will do anything and everything they can at all times to avoid being a frayer. The only way to be certain at any given moment that you are not a frayer is to make somebody else a frayer.

* SEE: James’ Journey to Jerusalem (Massa’ot James Be’eretz Hakodesh), 2004, NR, 87 minutes
In the imaginary village of Entshongweni [probably somewhere in Africa], far from western civilization, young James is chosen to undertake a mission — a pilgrimage to holy Jerusalem. But Israel is no longer the Holy Land that James and his people imagined. When he’s suspected of trying to infiltrate the country to work illegally, James’s journey takes him through the cruel heart of our [i.e., Israel’s] economic system, as he learns the tricks of the game [how to avoid becoming a “frayer”] and plays it toward an inevitable end.
Director: Ra’anan Alexandrowicz
Language: Hebrew (with English subtitles)
Netflix format: DVD
Netflix listing – http://dvd.netflix.com/Movie/James-Journey-to-Jerusalem/60037222?trkid=190393
IMDb – http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0305178/Massa’ot James Be’eretz Hakodesh (2003) – movie trailer [VIDEO, 01:38] – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRM4XlFPea

P.S. RE: “There is one correct definition of the term frayer. It means ‘sucker’ or ‘mark’, in the sense that somebody is a sucker if he goes along with the rules when nobody else is following them . . .” ~ quora.com (from above)

[EXCERPT]● Secret Nukes and JFK. . . Even as it backed down in the Sinai [following its invasion in 1956], Israel was involved in another monumental deception, a plan for building its own nuclear arsenal.
In 1956, Israel had concluded an agreement with France to build a nuclear reactor in the Negev desert. Israel also signed a secret agreement with France to build an adjacent plutonium reprocessing plant.
Israel began constructing its nuclear plant in 1958. However, French President Charles de Gaulle was worried about nuclear weapons destabilizing the Middle East and insisted that Israel not develop a nuclear bomb from the plutonium processing plant. Prime Minister Ben-Gurion assured de Gaulle that the processing plant was for peaceful purposes only.After John F. Kennedy became President, he also wrote to Ben-Gurion explicitly calling on Israel not to join the nuclear-weapons club, drawing another pledge from Ben-Gurion that Israel had no such intention.
Nevertheless, Kennedy continued to press, forcing the Israelis to let U.S. scientists inspect the nuclear reactor at Dimona. But the Israelis first built a fake control room while bricking up and otherwise disguising parts of the building that housed the plutonium processing plant.
In return for allowing inspectors into Dimona, Ben-Gurion also demanded that the United States sell Hawk surface-to-air missiles to the Israeli military. Kennedy agreed to the sale as a show of good faith.
Subsequently, however, the CIA got wind of the Dimona deception and leaked to the press that Israel was secretly building a nuclear bomb.After Kennedy’s assassination, President Lyndon Johnson also grew concerned over Israel’s acquiring nuclear weapons. He asked then-Prime Minister Levi Eshkol to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
Eshkol assured Johnson that Israel was studying the matter and would sign the treaty in due course. However, Israel has never signed the treaty and never has admitted that it developed nuclear weapons. [For details, See “Israel and The Bomb” by Avner Cohen.] . . .

It’s a “textile factory” where they weave a fabric of lies, or maybe just an extra-special cloth for Emperor Bibi which none of the MSM is allowed to mention doesn’t even hide the nuclear trigger he stole from us.

And from said fabric, they make those wonderfully fine, almost invisible suits for the Emp… er Prez of the Newnited States!

October 1, 2013, 7:37 pm

One must admit (some grudgingly, some with satisfaction) that the fact that the crowd here and in US and in Europe (I checked BBC and RT) and in Iran (shown on local TV here) and all over watches and comments every single word of this not so impressive guy is a big victory of his and Israel. He didn’t let go, insisted and insisted and the world finally listened and tighten up the sanctions and forced Iran to change its tactics. One cannot deny it. He (Israel) caused the fall down of Ahmadinejad whom I am sure you here greeted last year and expressed similar derision to Bibi. But he (and Israel) is meanwhile winning.

So what Natanyahu is doing now (again we shall see if this is right in the way he is doing it) is to keep the pressure up and the momentum going and not letting Iranians escape the trap they are in.

If they do not have nuclear bomb program – they can (and could in the past) prove it in no time by letting the inspectors in. The fact that they went so long willing to absorb the effects of the sanctions does not seem to go well with the thesis that they are innocent.

One must admit (some grudgingly, some with satisfaction) that the fact that the crowd here and in US and in Europe (I checked BBC and RT) and in Iran (shown on local TV here) and all over watches and comments every single word of this not so impressive guy is a big victory of his and Israel.

Why should admit to something that is clearly false?

He didn’t let go, insisted and insisted and the world finally listened and tighten up the sanctions and forced Iran to change its tactics.

That has been a demonstrable failure, seeing as Iran has not changed it’s tactics one iota. They are still pursuing their nuclear program as they were before the sanctions were imposed. And most of those sanctions are not UN sanctions, but unilateral US sanctions that the US has imposed by threatening other states to comply with.

So one can most certainly deny it.

Bibbi had nothing to do with the end of Ahmadinejad’s term as president. Under Iran’s laws, presidents are limited to 2 terms. So Biibi can’t even pretend that was a victory.

Based on the fact that everyone has panned Bibbi’s speech as impotent and irrelevant, Israel has clearly lost. As MJ Rosenberg pointed out Netenyahu has been a monumental failure and has clarified yet again who he is and why history is passing him by.

In fact, the fact that 76 – 85% of Americans polled favor diplomacy with Iran over military action, proves Netenyau has lost the debate. Diplomacy is clearly not what he wants and he made his intend to derail diplomacy clear before he set off for Washington.

So what Natanyahu is doing now (again we shall see if this is right in the way he is doing it) is to keep the pressure up and the momentum going and not letting Iranians escape the trap they are in.

I know how much you must vhave struggled to write that lame a pathetic sentence, given that you clearly do not believe a word of it, based on your defensive and half hearted defense of the criticism of Bibbi’s speech you posted earlier.

If they do not have nuclear bomb program – they can (and could in the past) prove it in no time by letting the inspectors in.

Inspectors have been in Iran for a decade. Both US and Israeli intelligence agree that Iran has not even decided to produce a nuke, so we already know they do not have nuclear bomb program. In fact, even Netehyahu has said Iran does not have one, so you are clearly going out on a limb all on your own.

The fact that they went so long willing to absorb the effects of the sanctions does not seem to go well with the thesis that they are innocent.

On the contrary. The fact that the sanctions are not based on facts or evidence, but speculation and that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program proves they are. Every NIE and testimony from the Director of US Intelligence to the Senate
have repeatedly stated that Iran is innocent.

The purpose of the sanctions is not to stop Iran producing a nuke, but to destroy the country and make sue that it does not rival Israel’s regional dominance. Nothing more.

And another aspect – it is amazing to see again and again how leaders of such dark regime violating all possible human rights in the worst possible manner

One must admit (some grudgingly, some with satisfaction) that the fact that the crowd here and in US and in Europe (I checked BBC and RT) and in Iran (shown on local TV here) and all over watches and comments every single word of this not so impressive guy is a big victory of his and Israel.

In that case yay I ask which speech in history was a big victory for which warmongerer and Germany?

“And another aspect – it is amazing to see again and again how leaders of such dark regime violating all possible human rights in the worst possible manner is so much tended to and even loved by the crowd here.”

For a moment I thought you were talking about Israel and its American support. Especially because you linked to Amnesty International. But it’s an article about post election violence in Iran. And it reminded me of the fact that the dark Apartheid regime in historic Palestine massacred and still keeps people expelled to prevent them from voting. I’m sure you are very proud off this.

I still find it hard to believe that Netanyahoo is leading Israel. Every time he opens his mouth he isolates Israel even further. There can’t be a nation in the world that has any respect for Israel at this point other than those led by politicans provided with huge lobby contributions. He has to be the poster child for the BDS campaign. He is the gift that keeps on giving.

I didn’t listen to the speech but there was something that seems to be missing and that was a threat to unilaterally attack Iran if they refused his demands. Maybe he finally realized that that bluff lost any traction it may have had at one time .

RE: “I didn’t listen to the speech but there was something that seems to be missing and that was a threat to unilaterally attack Iran if they refused his demands.” ~ ToivoS

THE CLOSEST BIBI “KING DAVID*” NETANYAHU CAME TO THREATENING A UNILATERAL ATTACK ON IRAN:
“I want there to be no confusion on this point. Israel will not allow Iran to get nuclear weapons. If Israel is forced to stand alone, Israel will stand alone. Yet in standing alone, Israel will know that we will be defending many, many others,” Netanyahu said. [In other words, Israel is willing to attack (i.e., “wield the sword of David” against**) Iran all alone.]

[EXCERPTS] . . . A former Likud activist who has become a critic of Netanyahu explains, “Bibi is a messianist. He believes with all his soul and every last molecule of his being that he — I don’t quite know how to express it — is King David.”**It is not in a superpower’s interest to get sucked into projects of someone with a King David complex. . . . . . If it [the U.S.] does not escape a war, it will be hard to find any silver lining in the consequences. But perhaps one would be that Americans would then be more likely to understand how contrary to their own interests it has been to follow the preferences of the Israeli government. Perhaps that could be a first step toward a more normal — and more beneficial for the United States — U.S. relationship with Israel. . .

[EXCERPTS] . . . But the most interesting and frightening element of the interview was his [Netanyahu’s] comments about Iran. Other reporters have been noting that Bibi lately has been waxing apocalyptic and mystical about the possibly oncoming war with Iran. In this interview he says:

Iran’s nuclear programs are turning it into an existential danger to the State of Israel.
The question is not just what Israel is doing to stop it, but what the world is doing. The awareness by the world community that Iran is progressing on a track toward developing a nuclear weapon obligates it to act so that Iran does not get this weapon. With every day that passes, Iran gets closer. The obligation of the international community to act grows as the fear [that Iran progresses toward a bomb] does.
You must keep in mind: that we aspire toward peace; but at the same time we must wield the sword of David to defend the Jewish State.

Of course, in Bibi’s skewed world-view, David’s sword was raised only to defend his people, not in aggression against a victim. But we should keep in mind that David’s sword slew an Israelite enemy and led to the killer’s annointment as King of Israel. . .
. . . Bibi (and to a lesser extent, Barak) have a very complicated complex that is little short of messianic and frightening. In the past, I’ve written dismissively about Bibi saying he has no principles and that even his so-called Jewish values appear to be manufactured. Now, I’m not so sure. And I don’t know which is worse, a megalomaniac with no principles or values; or a Jewish megalomaniac with religious-nationalist principles and values. They both scare the living hell out of me. . .

Yahoo is up the creek without a paddle. All of the tiresome, predictable cliches were there in abundance, but all he does is draw attention to his and Israel’s lack of any sense of reality about the world outside their lurid cartoon imagery. Most people will have noticed how his empty rhetoric could be applied far more accurately to his own country: fake offers of peace, sponsoring terrorism, committed to the destruction of a country, a nuclear programme which it denies, religious intolerance etc etc. I think at this point most diplomats and observers shuffle their feet, look away and hurry off to other appointments as the embarrassing uncle makes a fool of himself once again at the top table. Tiptoe around him, don’t provoke him, and hope he goes away quickly. Then we can get back to business.

The funny thing is that cartoon bomb of last year has become the defining image of Yahoo speaking to the world. I have seen it printed again for this speech, as well as providing rich pickings for would-be comedians everywhere. Images are remembered long after people have forgotten the words – in this respect the Israeli propaganda machine’s decision to use the stunt was justified, except that it has had the exact opposite effect of the one intended. Instead of absorbing some message about Iran and the bomb, the universal impression is of a slightly demented leader with a Warner Bros cartoon idea of world politics, like a disturbed down-and-out on the street with a home-made placard yelling at you about some unfathomable obsession of theirs, and who might explode at any moment. Way to go, all you well paid media geniuses in Israel.

BTW, talking of pigs, lipstick and other comparisons of the effectiveness of Israel’s PR, I wonder did Bibi have his makeup on:

The commentator Shimon Shiffer said: “A week ago I asked one of the new ministers what surprised him most about the cabinet meetings. What surprised me, replied the minister, was that Netanyahu comes to every meeting and discussion heavily made-up. When I looked into the matter, said the minister, I learned that a pair of hairdressers and makeup artists apply themselves every morning to the prime minister and his wife’s faces and hair.”

justice, it appears to me that yahoo has had a bit of cosmetic work. parts of his face, particularly above his permanently arched left eye brow, have that frozen quality that results from nerve damage associated with plastic surgery.

That 9/11 was at least largely an American plot (I’m willing to leave room for Israeli culpability as well) is a truth that needs to be repeated until the lie ends, however imprudent it may be for an Iranian leader to be the bearer of that particular truth.

I switched off after this opening: “I feel deeply honored and privileged to stand before you today representing the people of the State of Israel. We are an ancient people, dating back 4,000 years to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob etc”

There you have Israeli apartheid proudly displayed at the UN. The State of Israel is for Jews only. Palestinians are invisible.

So we have an Israel Prize winner trying to define what the f*ck the Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty and Declaration of Independence are supposed to mean in light of all this “Jewish” business.

The smart money says that “grass will be growing” in Gavison’s cheeks long before the Knesset Law and Constitution Committee (the constituent assembly for applied infinite monkey theorem) ever stops arguing about the meaning of the terms “Jewish” and “constitution”.

“I feel deeply honored and privileged to stand before you today representing the people of the State of Israel. We are an ancient people, dating back 4,000 years to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob etc”

There you have Israeli apartheid proudly displayed at the UN. The State of Israel is for Jews only. Palestinians are invisible.”

That may have been his intention – but do the Palestinians as Arabs not also date back 4000 years to Abraham? Besides the fact that many of the Palestinians may be original Jews that converted to Islam centuries ago? What is the claim to Israel based on – ethnicity or religion? In both cases the claim stands on weak legs.

“but do the Palestinians as Arabs not also date back 4000 years to Abraham?

Sammar, original Palestinians and Lebanese go back even farther than the Hebrew Abraham. They are rooted in the Canaanites that arrived in the area long before the Hebrews arrived to ethnically cleanse it of its Canaanites, Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites under divine and Mosaic commandments to do so. Today history is repeating itself:

… God had the Israelites kill countless thousands, perhaps millions, of people throughout the land of Canaan. It was genocide in the sense that it was a planned, systematic, limited extermination of a number of nation states from a relatively small area in the Middle East (cf. “Genocide,” 2000; cf. also “Genocide,” 2012). But, it was not a war against a particular race (from the Greek genos) or ethnic group. Nor were the Israelites commanded to pursue and kill the Canaanite nations if they fled from Israel’s Promised Land. The Israelites were to drive out and dispossess the nations of their land (killing all who resisted the dispossession), but they were not instructed to annihilate a particular race or ethnic group from the face of the Earth.

Hard to tell whether or not that site is satirical. The linked-to article ends with this bizarre paragraph:

Though the enemies of the God of the Bible are frequently heard criticizing Israel’s conquest of Canaan, the fact is, such a conquest was in complete harmony with God’s perfectly loving, holy, and righteous nature. After patiently waiting for hundreds of years, God eventually used the Israelites to bring judgment upon myriads of wicked Canaanites. Simultaneously, He spared their children a fate much worse than physical death—the horror of growing up in a reprehensible culture and becoming like their hedonistic parents—and immediately ushered them into a pain-free, marvelous place called Paradise (Luke 16:19-31; 23:43).

Human beings are an ‘ancient people’, all of whose roots go back a lot longer than 4,000 years. So your point, Bibi, is what? Certainly, I am sure you have ancient Eastern European roots, like many immigrants into Israel, but I don’t hear you bigging that up, Mr Milikovsky. Perhaps you should stake a claim to Gondwanaland, or Pangea, where dinosaurs like you like to roam.

We must focus closely on Israel’s actions. The FACTS ARE:
1. They have massive stockpiles of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons that go un inspected by the international community
2. Israel has and continues to refuse to sign the International Atomic Energy Agencies Non Proliferation Treaty. Does not get any more hypocritical or absurd that a country loaded up with nuclear weapons is pointing at a nation who signed the NPT and allows inspections.

3. Netanyahu is one of the biggest hypocrites wrapped in hypocrites words and clothing. Creepy..really creepy

Not much clapping at all. Folks are sick and tired of this hatred, mis-translated comments, chest beating, lies out of a nation loaded up with weapons that go undeclared and un inspected. Tired of the persistent warmongering that constantly comes out of Israel and the U.S. Enough!

THE “BETTER HALF” OF THE ROYAL COUPLE MIGHT WELL BE “QUEEN SARA”! ! !“Former employee sues Sara Netanyahu”, by Tsach Shpitsen, YnetNews.com, 1/15/10

[EXCERPT] “Sara Netanyahu abused me, paid me less than minimum wage, didn’t pay my social benefits, forced me to work Saturdays even though I observe Shabbat, and forced me to call her ‘Mrs. Sara Netanyahu’,” these are just some of the allegations Lillian, a former housekeeper for the Netanyahu family in their Caesarea residence, made against the prime minister’s wife.In a claim filed with the Tel Aviv Regional Labor Court by her lawyers Asaf Sharaf and Shai Lavi, Lillian recounts her version of experiences during her six years working for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s wife.
According to the claim: “The relationship (with Sara Netanyahu) constantly came with a line of humiliation and a hostile atmosphere both at work and outside of work. For example, after Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu was elected prime minister, Lillian was not allowed to call the defendant by her first name, but was to call her, ‘Mrs. Sara Netanyahu’.
“And if she was to make an innocent mistake, out of belief that this was a personal relationship, Netanyahu would shout at her for daring to call her by her first name since, ‘I am a person of authority, and every one of my household staff must respect me and call me by my title, Mrs. Sara Netanyahu.'”
The claim continues to say that “Sara Netanyahu would adorn herself in her feathers and shout aloud: ‘This is my beautiful house, and I am the mother of the State of Israel.’ . . .

How exactly is Palestine the “land” of a person from Brooklyn who’s family hasn’t set foot there in over 2000 years? Please explain without using the meaningless phrase “ancient homeland” or any variation thereof.

Ancestral homeland is essentially a property concept. Just tag on ancestral to whatever you want and you’ll get it. Say you have no money. You can claim ownership to ancestral stocks that your grandfather may have held in the 1960s. And presto! Millions.

I don’t agree. The right to self determination is a civic, not an ethnic right. And some Jews (and their descendants) once were citizens of Palestine, too. It’s neither solely “Jewish” nor solely “Arab” land.

The problem is not Jewish presence, but (Arab) Palestinan absence or keeping others of them oppressed and enclaved in parts of historic Palestine.

So? Stay in Israel. Get out of all occupied territories. Adhere to the law for once. Repatriate all illegal Israeli settlers. Pay rightful reparations. Try practicing the basic tenets of Judaism for once, as it would befit a Jewish state.

Ha’aretz has a great report about the failed Netanyahu speech at the UN. What a miskane (Hebrew for pathetic guy). He had to bring his own cheering section with him, the always appealing Sheldon Adelson, Dore Gold, and Alan Dershowitz. . .

“You” is the plural. “Thou” is the singular, but only a few dialects retain it. In many European languages the plural is polite and the singular is only used for close family members, children, and dogs. In English we are polite to everyone.

If you want a bad plural, you can try “youse” or “y’all”, but I will let you imagine the obloquy I will heap upon you if you do.

Well, in modern, standard English, “you” is both and I’d say more recognized in the singular.

“In English we are polite to everyone.”

What makes me chuckle is the fact that the older bible translations used the familiar forms, “Thee, Thou, Thine” etc., to denote that God was approachable, but because those forms have disappeared, they strike the modern ear as the opposite, as being very formal.

“If you want a bad plural, you can try “youse” or “y’all”, but I will let you imagine the obloquy I will heap upon you if you do.”

LOL. You could try the Pittsburgh-ese “yinz” (And, shame on you. Everyone knows that “y’all” is singular. The plural is “all y’all.”)

You really have to search for the word “Palestinians” in Netanyahu’s toxic alphabet soup.

After a half-hour vitriolic rant against Iran, he finally got around to addressing the Palestinian issue, and stingy to a fault, offered Palestinians a mere two minutes of his “valuable” time, resorting to what Zionists do best: robbing the real victims of all significance while he lectured them on Jewish victimhood.

By way of typical Zionist deception, he references Jewish victimhood as a cover for a state built on a foundation of ethnic cleansing, right after hammering away at the primary but not sole condition for a Palestinian state: Palestinians must finally recognize a Jewish state, blah-blah-blah…the one and only Jewish State…blah-blah…demilitarized Palestinian state should recognize the Jewish state blah-blah. So Palestinians must accept a Jewish state built on stolen, ethnically-cleansed Palestinian land. If in a speech that ran over a half an hour he couldn’t even bring himself to give Palestinians even a full two minutes; imagine how much stolen land he’s willing to return! Palestinians should know by now; it’s all about Jewish victimhood, the Jewish state, and only the Jewish people matter and don’t you forget it, and selfish Zionist hubris is all you’re ever going to get. So quit waiting, dismantle the Palestinian Authority already and demand your rights NOW!

As usual the truth got lost in Zionist translation, because in REALITY, there is NO Jewish State. There is only a Zionist state built on ethnic cleansing, land theft and a gross, continuing violation of the rights of millions of Palestinians. That’s the only state that exists in reality on this planet Earth!

Folks should take the time to call into Cspan’s Washington Journal during open phones and bring up Netanyhu’s warmongering speech, his tribalism, unwillingness to negotiate, demanding that Iran stop uranium enrichment while they have every right to enrich uranium up to 20%, as signatories to the NPT. How Israel refuses to sign the NPT and calls out Iran on false claims.

I call once a month on this issue and others. Camera (one of the I lobbies watch groups even has a file on my calls up on their watch page). Makes me so proud. Their problem is that they missed a solid 10 years of my phone calls into that program on this topic.

Remember millions of people watch Washington Journal. It is a great way to get factual information out there and direct people to websites,information that focuses on factual information about the Israeli Palestinian conflict, Iran etc, I always mention GOING TO TEHRAN, INFORMED COMMENT AND MONDOWEISS.

The screeners ask you for your zip code, state your comment clearly (get in a few plugs). Give it a try. If the MSM is not going to discuss this we can push some outlets to do so.

a. He was not. More to the popint is saying that he was a colonial racist.
b. The Brits did listen to him. They voted him out before WWII in Asia was ended.
c. India had to listen to him. And they were fast to conclude after WWII.

As early as October 25, 1919 Winston Churchill predicted that Zionism implied the clearing of the indigenous population, he wrote:

“there are the Jews, whom we are PLEDGED to introduce into Palestine, and who take it for GRANTED the the local [Palestinian] population will be CLEARED out to suit their convenience.” (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 15)

“Mr Rouhani’s strategy, he said, was to “smile a lot because smiling never hurts; pay lip-service to peace, democracy and tolerance; offer meaningless concessions in exchange for lifting sanctions; ensure Iran retains sufficient nuclear material and infrastructure to race to the bomb at a time that it chooses.”

He went on: “You know why Rouhani thinks he can get away with this? This is a ruse, a ploy. Because he’s gotten away with it before. He fooled the world once, now he thinks he can fool it again.”nut and yahoo.

“The contrast in tone between Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Rouhani was stark. Unlike the Iranian, who smiled during his address at the same podium and sought to appear conciliatory, the Israeli prime minister was low on smiles, high on sarcasm. Mr. Rouhani did not mention Israel by name, nor its prime minister; Mr. Netanyahu spoke the Iranian president’s name 25 times.” NYT

What folks are not talking about much through the thread is how absurdly insane it is that a leader with nuclear weapons who refuses to sign the NPT is demanding that a neighbor who signed the NPT and opens its doors to inspections to “do as they say not as they do” This is absolutely sickening and beyond hypocritical how about criminal.

While Netanyahu knows he has the U.S. congress by the cajones and pushed them to “keep up the pressure” Hate to say it but Gilad Atzmon (who I heard speak this past spring) and disagreed with him about many things and had great arguments with him) is right it is the so called liberal Dems (which I have been saying for years) who are a huge part of the problem when it comes to pushing unnecessary sanctions against Iran, voting for unnecessary wars, creating and sponsoring right wing I lobby legislation on the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Netanyahu knows he has them by the balls. Start calling Wasserman Schultz, Steny Hoyer, Schumer, Boxer, Feinstein let them know enough of standing in the way of progress, diplomacy with Iran.

“how absurdly insane it is that a leader with nuclear weapons who refuses to sign the NPT is demanding that a neighbor who signed the NPT and opens its doors to inspections to “do as they say not as they do”

+1

What runs through all Zionist speeches is the notion that Jews are special and that normal rules and conventions and indeed international law do not apply to them. Israel needs the US veto to get out of bed in the morning- this is supposed to be understood as normal. And then Netanyahu talks about Israel going it alone. WTF. He’s a cartoon character.

“What runs through all Zionist speeches is the notion that Jews are special and that normal rules and conventions and indeed international law do not apply to them.” (seafoid)

“… I am a lawyer…But I am against law — international law in particular. Law in general.” (T.Livni)

“… Israelis are obliged to follow the rule of law that exists in the democracy called Israel the way I am obliged to follow the rule of law in the democracy called the United States. International law is not democratic. You are not participants of international law, you are excluded from the United Nations Security Council, you are excluded from the United Nations Commission on Human Rights, which included Libya and Syria and other wonderful compliers with human rights. Your moral obligation to comply with the letter of the rule of international law is voluntary; it is a matter of choice and a matter of tactic, not a matter of moral obligation or democratic theory. You were not represented in the making of those laws; you are not represented in the implementing of those laws. International law stands on a different footing–it lives or dies by its credibility, it doesn’t live or die by the process of democracy, by which it has been constructed. Moreover, I am not suggesting that anybody or any country violate the rule of law, what I am suggesting is a dynamic view of the rule of law–change it!” (A. Dershowitz)

I think a few people were disappointed Bibbi didn’t being any props with him. he must have fired his cartoon artists, but couldn’t he have made some cute ICBM’s out of ballons, or done some neat tricks with origami?

A small correction — the heavy water reactor to which Netanyahu refers is in “Arak” (a small city in Iran) not in “Iraq.” I don’t know if the transliteration error was Alex’s or if this was in a more official transcript, but geopolitically it’s a significant distinction.

Netanyahu “ancient people” what other circumstance can anyone point out in the world where a group of people laid claim to a piece of land that they lived on for awhile thousands of years ago and in present day said now this is ours based on what they said their god said? This will go down in history as one of the biggest scams in history.

When this continents native people’s start to lay claim to their land that we are on and have some pull in the U.S. congress I will be paying close attention to the leveling of the playing field.

As people have pointed out on this thread. Netanyahu would be wise to be paying attention to international boundaries, laws etc. Israel would be wise to step up to the plate and sign the NPT and start playing by the rules that they demand their neighbors play by. Until they do this this “chosen people” we are “special” and the rules do not apply to us is not ever going to fly. Israel needs to sign the NPT asap. Apply pressure to your congress members. Get this out into the MSM.

This whole notion of an “ancient people returning to their homeland” is ludicrous.
There are probably more Palestinians who are descendants of the ancient Hebrews than there are Israelis.
A person who has no Jewish roots whatsoever can convert to Judaism, make aliyah and “return to his/her ancient homeland”? How many Israelis are converts or descendants of converts who fall under that category? The BS is mind boggling.

A poll carried out by the Israeli Democracy Institute in 2007 showed that 53% of Israelis said they do not keep the Sabbath at all. Zionism claims to have no religious foundation and yet, the religious premise of a “God-given right to the promised land” features prominently in Zionist claims to former Palestine.
I can understand why Israel uses all kinds of BS to support their claim to former Palestine – i.e. the “ancient homeland” and the “promised land of the Bible”. What I cant understand is why the rest of the world fell for it in 1947?

The first Zionists came to the land of Israel (or Palestine, if you want) in 1882, what we call “the first Aliyah”. In those days, many countries were under European colonialism. The Zionists had many options to choose other land like the fertile land
of Uganda (under GB), or other water and mineral-rich fertile land in other places under GB, French or Belgian colonialism. Why they didn’t asked for better land but chose this tiny land called Israel, half non fertile desert land, little water resources, no mineral rich mines and no diamonds? why they chose this land if they had to use BS?

Thanks Shmuel, for your succinct and rational answer to MehaneY1. As for his pondering:Why they didn’t asked for better land but chose this tiny land called Israel, half non fertile desert land, little water resources, no mineral rich mines and no diamonds? why they chose this land if they had to use BS?

Because the Zionist project was/is a commercial enterprise and easier to promote and sell to the masses when wrapping it in emotions and religion. Much easier than selling Uganda! (Or west Texas.)

After all, the father of Zionism, Herzl, was also a promoter of concerts, happenings, etc in Vienna. Today, he might be called an event manager.

Of course it does (“Historically, culturally and metaphysically, Jews have a connection to the land of Israel”). It also addresses the fallacy that this connection somehow affords “rights” in the real world.

As others have pointed out, the pre-existing, traditional Jewish connection, meant that the idea of a modern Jewish nation state in Palestine was a lot easier to sell (whether to the “backward” Jewish masses of Eastern Europe, or to Christian “Zionists” in Britain) than such a state in British East Africa or Argentina.

To cite Sternhell again, when socialism began to make headway among young European Jews, the Zionist movement had no qualms about adopting that as well.

This is all very interesting, but it is still nonsense to believe that dreaming of something (assuming for a moment that the Zionist programme actually corresponded to the traditional dreams) makes it yours.

@Ellen: Herzl was a journalist that saw the sufferings, persecutions and blood libels of my people (Dreyfus, Ukraine, Russia, etc.). He and the first Zionists wanted to put an end to this situation in which the Jews were abandoned and at the mercy of others. They went after the yearning of Jews to return to their homeland (It is hard to “sell” delusions to many people) and began to legally purchase lands in the land of Israel or Palestine. They are not intended to expel anybody and developed the lands which they legally purchased. The international community has recognized them and decided to establish an independent state alongside with independent Arab state. Subsequent events are mainly the result of intolerance toward them as there is no much tolerance to other minorities in the Middle East. These events caused a lot of sufferings to innocent Palestinians until today.
I know other people may think that I tell the story in a naive way and that I ignore the “conspiracies” and other facts. But no, sometimes events are really naive, but other people make a lot of efforts to distort them to serve their interests.

Herzl was a journalist that saw the sufferings, persecutions and blood libels of my people

Herzl didn’t give a damn about Jewish persecution, other than how to encourage it, exploit it and harness it. Herzl was a social Darwinist and segregationist who considered anti Semitism to be perfectly natural.

He even wrote about saddistic plans to incite anti Semitism, so he clearly did not want to put an end to it.

He also envisioned early on that the native population if whatever territory ended up bring the Jewish state, would have to be driven away, so he was also an early proponent of ethnic cleansing.

They went after the yearning of Jews to return to their homeland (It is hard to “sell” delusions to many people) and began to legally purchase lands in the land of Israel or Palestine. They are not intended to expel anybody and developed the lands which they legally purchased.

1) Palestine was not the homeland of Jews, like Dreyfus and the ones you mentioned in the Ukraine and Russia. You are simply demonstrating how Zionists double down when confronted over the delusion they are selling to members of their movement.

2) It was not legal for foreign Jews to purchase land or immigrate to Palestine. So the Jewish Colonial societies used Ottoman subjects as purchasing agents and exploited their status as “protégés” of the western Consuls to remain and settle in Palestine under the regime of Capitualtions. For example, The Ottoman Sultan had issued a firman that encouraged the establishment of large Jewish settlements in Syria, but it prohibited Oriental and European Jews from settling in Palestine. Palestine was marked on the maps of the era. The first Jewish Aliya was carried-out in violation of that prohibition on mass Jewish immigration. In 1882, the American Consul summed up an immigration request from a group of Romanian Jews living in the Ottoman Empire this way:

I visited the minister of foreign affairs, who informed me that the matter had been before His Majesty’s council of ministers, which had decided affirmatively that the Jews from whatever parts could come and settle in Turkey; that there was a general law of immigration in force which must be taken for the guidance of such as chose to come; that they could come when they pleased, and would be settled in groups of two hundred or two hundred and fifty families, that they could settle on any unoccupied lands in Mesopotamia, about Aleppo, or in the regions of the Orontes River; that they could not establish themselves in Palestine; that the firman of the Sultan was unnecessary, for, having once approved the law, he could not be called on to do so again; that every colonist was simply bound to become an Ottoman subject.
…In conclusion, there is nothing to prevent all the Israelites on the earth from settling in Asiatic Turkey. They shall not settle in Palestine-’that is the only prohibition.

3) The Charter of Herzl’s Jewish-Ottoman Land Company (JOLC) contained an article which reserved the right of the Zionists to involuntarily transfer the non-Jewish population of Palestine to other parts of the Ottoman Empire. http://www.jstor.org/stable/2537267

During the Mandate era the Zionists deliberately pursued a policy of displacing Arab cultivators whenever it was possible and employing only Jewish laborers, i.e. the Conquest of Labor.

@Woody Tanaka: It is not fair to say that my claim was “Nakba denial”. After many comments you should know me better and learn that when I say “consequences” I include the Nakba, which I think is the main source of sufferings of the victims of this conflict. It is not the first time I write it and I think I repeat tens of times that I want and support just solution to the Nakba victims. I also stated many times that Israel also has to take responsibility and pay for it. I ask you, please, stop blame me each time and start to learn me better. About your wish to ban me, I already said that MW was here before MY1 and will be without MY1.

It absolutely fair. You are claiming that the events of the Nakba were the results of the Palestinians “intolerance” toward the Jews. This is false. It was the result of the Jews’ intent to steal the Palestinians’ property. It was an assault by the Jewish community. Denial of that fact is Nakba denial.

>> The first Zionists came to the land of Israel (or Palestine, if you want) …

There was no “land of Israel” when the first Zio-supremacists arrived in Palestine.

>> In those days, many countries were under European colonialism.

European colonialism was unjust and immoral. Zio-supremacists, however, looked and – with their unjust and immoral eyes – saw that it was good. They desired to be as unjust and immoral as other colonialist nations.

>> Why they didn’t asked for better land but chose this tiny land called Israel …

They chose to colonize Palestine because fabricating, selling and perpetuating a myth about the “Jewish homeland” being in Palestine would prove easier than fabricating, selling and perpetuating a myth about the “Jewish homeland” being in Uganda.

It doesn’t matter what you imagined, dreamed, desired, prayed for or fantasized it to be. The fact is, people of the Jewish faith – living in the countries around the world that were their homelands – had no right to invade Palestine, occupy it, ethnically cleanse people from it and colonize it. They still do not have that right.

MY1–I agree with the point you’ve made elsewhere that there are innocent Israeli victims in the conflict, but this claim below is silly–

“The international community has recognized them and decided to establish an independent state alongside with independent Arab state. Subsequent events are mainly the result of intolerance toward them as there is no much tolerance to other minorities in the Middle East.”

The Zionists came to a land already inhabited with the intent of making into a “Jewish state” with or without the consent of the people already there. And if they wanted it to be a “Jewish democracy”, the people already there would have to be moved, one way or another, in order for this to work. It’s almost impossible to imagine this happening without conflict. And it’s not some accident that this ideology sprang up during the era of European colonialism–Zionism is obviously just another variation on a 19th century theme.

Donald: First, I really appreciate that you recognize the fact that there are innocent Israeli victims of this conflicts. I believe that mutual recognition of the sufferings and the victims from both sides is important when people want reconciliation. As I stated before, I wish my government, Palestinians and Arab countries will recognize all the consequences of the long conflict in all victims of it.

Donald, when I wrote my comments above I expected to receive a wave of not supportive replies. I think that this point, how people see the beginning of the Zionist movement, is the main controversy between the pro-Zionists and anti-Zionists. Actually, it is a different between two narratives. Anyone can find hundreds of sources that support the narrative he think it is truth, and I think people here, pro and anti, are well familiar with them and each one already has solid opinion about the conflict. I only want you to know that I personally, and the party I support Meretz, recognize the sufferings of the Palestinians refugees and support the idea that they deserve just solution to bring the end of their sufferings.

As I say, I can’t convince you that my point of view is the right view, because no matter what I write or source I bring, I will be blown with replies that support the opposite point of view. I only want to quote from the Israel declaration of Independence. This quote, although it is still far from reality, reflects my position and how I want to see the future State of Israel:

“We appeal – in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months – to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the up building of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.”

I think that this point, how people see the beginning of the Zionist movement, is the main controversy between the pro-Zionists and anti-Zionists.

Yes they can. but there are only one set of facts and those facts show that the Zionists were the aggressors and arrived with the intent of conquering the territory and dispossessing the native population.

I only want to quote from the Israel declaration of Independence.

Feel free to do so. It says that Israel’s legitimacy is based in UNGA181, which means that Israel’s borders are defined and that Israel is stealing land that does not belong to the state.

First, I really appreciate that you recognize the fact that there are innocent Israeli victims of this conflicts. I believe that mutual recognition of the sufferings and the victims from both sides is important when people want reconciliation.

then i presume you can appreciate for each innocent jewish victims there are ten times as many innocent palestinian victims. can you appreciate the disproportionate suffering? I believe that mutual recognition of the disproportionate suffering is important when people want reconciliation.

especially given that our government send billions of weapons to israel who has the power to storm homes, administrative detention, imprisonment of people without charge, all of this, can you recognize how both sides do not suffer proportionately, at all? or are we supposed to give equal weight to thousands of mourning souls in comparison to even one. because i don’t believe there is even one israeli rotting away in a palestinian jail tonight. not one israeli family knowing whether their child or father or mother is being tortured by a palestinian tonight. as opposed to thousands of palestinians suffering and missing there loved ones.

i’d really appreciate you recognizing that fact. since you brought up ‘facts’.

“then i presume you can appreciate for each innocent Jewish victims there are ten times as many innocent Palestinian victims. can you appreciate the disproportionate suffering? I believe that mutual recognition of the disproportionate suffering is important when people want reconciliation” – I totally agree and said many times that in any future agreement, a just solution to ALL victims of this conflict has to be made.

about your government that send weapons to Israel – As much as I know, and please correct me if I wrong, other parties in the ME receive weapon too. Many conflicts in the ME are not ended because the superpowers weapon industries interests.

Look, Annie, I am not competing about “sufferings”. I want to see the end of all sufferings from both sides and I think both can do efforts to stop this cycle. Please, read my comments carefully and see that I’m not running away from my country responsibility. I have written this view in my first comments in MW.

woody, the focus on ‘first zionists’ is a diversion. the first zionists were dead and gone by the time the state came along. they were not even around for the nakba. and they lived in an era of colonization run amok.

I totally agree and said many times that in any future agreement, a just solution to ALL victims of this conflict has to be made.

i wasn’t talking about ” in any future agreement”, i was talking about now.

can appreciate for each innocent Jewish victims there are ten times as many innocent Palestinian victims. can you appreciate the disproportionate suffering?

can you say ‘i appreciate for each innocent Jewish victims there are ten times as many innocent Palestinian victims and i appreciate the disproportionate suffering between both side, the palestinians suffering ten fold’?

so that israeli jews can have a their zionist state?’ if you can please say it.

other parties in the ME receive weapon too

we’re not talking about other countries. we’re talking about ‘both sides’. that would be the occupier and the occupied. one w/the 4th most powerful army in the world, the other with, for the most part, rocks.

so yeah, everybody suffers in war but this is not proportionate. you get that right?

i mean, some jews are suffering of guilt knowing they stole someones house, and scuffed their knee ducking a rock or had to shoot a kid in the face. that’s different than suffering because you’re living in a tent with your home bulldozed and your child in an israeli prison being tortured. this is a realistic assessment of the suffering. notice how i did not include any deaths in my analogy. or shall we talk dead kids?
one weeping mother vs ten weeping mothers is still both sides.

how people see the beginning of the Zionist movement, is the main controversy between the pro-Zionists and anti-Zionists.

i can guarantee you’re wrong. the main controversy is the occupation of palestine and the fact that there’s an apartheid state with millions of people w/no rights. the ‘beginning of the Zionist movement’ is a distraction used to justify what’s going on right now.

his point is pabulum for the masses shingo. sweet reconciliation talk when there is no reconcilliation while the crime is still occurring. if mahane were concerned w/reconcilliation he’d be spending his time on rabid zionists sites trying to sway them, he’s not . he’s here dishing us out sweet words that amount to nada. zilch. both side jargon w/no meat.

“his point is pabulum for the masses shingo. sweet reconciliation talk when there is no reconcilliation while the crime is still occurring. if mahane were concerned w/reconcilliation he’d be spending his time on rabid zionists sites trying to sway them, he’s not . he’s here dishing us out sweet words that amount to nada. zilch. both side jargon w/no meat”

Thank you very much for your appreciation. I believe that until I do not write the things you want to read all my views will be rejected no matter how far away are my views. I am not here to satisfy people and imitate their opinions. I am an Israeli and a proud Zionist, believes in the righteousness of my way and my country and always I’ll fight for peace and justice. I do not know if you know me personally, but I think I contribute to rapprochement between Jews and Arabs actually a lot more than you think.

I wonder why I receive such replies from you. People here are writing ugly and cruel things, justify killing and genocide, mocking us in all ugly words they know (“rabid Zionist sites”) and I didn’t hear your voice. Even many Palestinians don’t use such cruelty and ugly language. thank you very much for promoting peace.

“Actually, it is a different between two narratives. Anyone can find hundreds of sources that support the narrative he think it is truth,”

But that does not mean that both are true or neither is true.

‘This quote, although it is still far from reality, reflects my position and how I want to see the future State of Israel:

“We appeal – in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months – to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the up building of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.”’

Then, as Annie suggests, start persuading your fellow Israelis to change the place to a single unified state, instead of wasting your time here “dishing out sweet words that amount to nada”

said many times that in any future agreement, a just solution to ALL victims of this conflict has to be made.

yeah, and you also said you believe that mutual recognition of the sufferings and the victims from both sides is important when people want reconciliation.

and you have not recognized palestinian suffering when you frame it as both sides suffer. this is not recognition in the least. this is like comparing a stubbed toe to loosing your legs.

so recognize palestinian suffering mahane. or can’t you do that? is all you can muster ‘a just solution to all victims’ ? you mean the massive disproportion of palestinian victims? and what kind of ‘justice’ can you support when you can’t even address them by actual RECOGNITION?

they suffered so zionists could have a state. so zionist suffering has already been rewarded/recognized. i said “I believe that mutual recognition of the disproportionate suffering is important when people want reconciliation”

and you said “I totally agree”

so if you TOTALLY AGREE please recognize the disproportionate suffering, because i have not heard you do that. not once.

oh gag me with a spoon. are you feigning there are no rabidly islamophobic zionist hate sites? don’t feign stupid with me. you know exactly what i am talking about. you, who cannot even mouth the words of the disproportionate crimes committed against the people whose homes you’re living in, whose land you’ve stolen, who continue to suffer untold pain in your prisons, much less write the words, while you pander sweet nothings like “I totally agree”.

if you totally agree “that mutual recognition of the disproportionate suffering is important when people want reconciliation” than recognize it. otherwise what is clear is you do not seek recognition, you seek delay. speaking of delay, oh, lets talk about the founding members who lived in the 1800’s!!!!!

I am not here to satisfy people and imitate their opinions.

then cut the crap about “I totally agree”.and quit mealy mouthing your ‘both sides’ lingo. it’s decades old, completely stale and rotten to the core. what was there? how many non-friendly fire israelis died during the cast lead massacre?

how many israelis got their houses bulldozed last week? how about today???? how many jewish villages got demolished???

I am an Israeli and a proud Zionist, believes in the righteousness of my way and my country and always I’ll fight for peace and justice.

mahane, he who can not recognize the disproportion of suffering between the ‘proud zionist culture’ you live in and those oppressed by zionism, i think it may behoove you to try harder in that regard. because there’s something to be said for treating people by the same standards they treat others. hmm, what was that proportion? 10×1? ok, even i will give you better odds than that.

I am not competing about “sufferings”.

compete? you can’t even recognize it! you’re in denial.

and you want to be treated fairly? you and your side kick who insinuated i was a holocaust denier?

MahaneYehude1 “I really appreciate that you recognize the fact that there are innocent Israeli victims of this conflicts.”

Indeed there are. Not only the dead and maimed but the living have had successive Governments who have fed them 65 years of lies. Governments who’ve said :
UNGA res 181 was not binding and; because the Arabs rejected UNGA res 181 it was irrelevant
Yet the official Jewish Agency representative at the UNSC said “As far as the Jewish people are concerned, they have accepted the decision. of the United Nations. We regard it as binding” http://pages.citebite.com/l1t3s9i2x5shf and; “The setting up of one State was not made conditional upon the setting up of the other State.” Furthermore long after the Arabs rejected UNGA res 181 it was enshrined in the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel!

Do you recognize the fact that the Israeli victims have been purposefully encouraged to illegally settle by successive Israeli Governments in breach of International Law and a Conventions adopted to PROTECT THEM from the possible violent consequences of occupying another people, thereby putting them in danger.

Do you recognize the fact that the Israeli victims have been illegally sold land in non-Israeli territory “outside the State of Israel” (ibid)

Do you recognize the fact that the Israeli victims have been brain washed into thinking Israel’s (allegedly non-existent) borders have changed, when in fact Armistice Demarcation Lines specifically do not change borders.

Do you recognize the fact that the Israeli victims were robbed of their promised constitution and have never had a legally elected Government (under a constitution)

Do you recognize the fact that the Israeli victims, based on blatant lies told them by their own government, have sacrificed their lives fighting wars for territory “outside the State of Israel” (ibid) in Palestine, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and that Israel has NEVER actually been invaded by any Arab state.

If you deny the above, all of which can be verified by the Jewish Agency and Israeli Government statements on the actual United Nations record, you’re either a victim too or you’re just another vile propagandist

@MahaneYehude1 “We appeal – in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months – to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the up building of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.”

Are you really so naive to believe the drafters of the declaration didn’t know Jewish forces were already razing the homes, farms and entire villages of non-Jewish inhabitants both inside and outside of the territory slated for the Jewish state ?

If the ‘appeal’ was genuine, why was it that one of the very first things the Israeli Government did was to refuse any return of non-Jewish civilians?

I am an Israeli and a proud Zionist, believes in the righteousness of my way and my country and always I’ll fight for peace and justice.

Apartheid South Africa was filled with proud white supremacists, who believed in the righteousness of their way and their country and yes, even believed that apartheid was an instrument for peace and justice.

Same goes for Nazi Germany.

I wonder why I receive such replies from you.

Probably because you are so oblivious to how repugnant and ingrained your views are. You probably think you are the sweetest, most lovable human being on earth, but to most of us, you come across as a racist supremacist who’s convinced himself that he can sugar coat his vile ideology in sweet sounding platitudes.

You are hear proudly defending a state that inflicts extraordinary cruelty and injustice every day, or simply denying the violence that has given you privilege over the people you have disenfranchised. Yet you still wonder why you are not smothered in kisses.

Zionism is racism. If you are a proud Zionist, you are a proud racist.

@Taxi: At least, my potatoes are real and I am not selling delusions like several of Arab countries governments do when they promise to their citizens (when they are not killing them) that we free Palestine immediately. Look, I know what I want from my government and how I want to see Israel in the future. I recommend you to see your sacks of problems in your mother country and fight them, and stop looking at other potato sacks! Shukran!!

Mahane 2 is back; Mahane 1 didn’t stay long this time. The original always writes in broken English while the second has very good English and always starts and ends his posts with extreme politeness. It’s fun watching the alternation of this tag team. He talks a lot about selling his potatoes, in French we say “vendre sa salade” but I’d be leery of whatever Mahane 1 and 2 are selling.

The large migration from Eastern Europe of Jews that began in 1881 flowed to the United States. Such a migration and such a despair with the situation under the Czar was bound to make Jews think in the direction of territory and self emancipation. The cavalier attitude Herzl took towards the indigenous Palestinians foretells the nakba and current attitudes as well, so they should not be declared innocuous. Herzl was no democrat, no progressive, no humanist, he was a realist, a pragmatist, a dreamer, a playwright who wrote himself into a grand play. From his early plans to lead the Jews to the baptismal fountain to his eventual discovery of Zionism as the cure to the tension between his urge to assimilate and the hatred he encountered, he always cast himself as the leader.

To those who hate Israel, he represents someone to be hated. I do not hate Israel. I wish I could change Israel, but it eludes me how to accomplish that. But I sense that history will change Israel.

@Annie: about “disproportion of suffering” that you want me to recognize – In the past I talked about ALL victims of this conflict and I mentioned the Jewish refugees too. People didn’t agree with me and we had long thread about it. Since it is behind my ability to start the dialog again, I always write ALL and I mean “ALL”. If “all” means million Jewish victims vs. 10 millions Arabs, as you think, no problem. Israel and Arab countries are strong enough to bring solution to all victims of this conflict.

“compete? you can’t even recognize it! you’re in denial”
No, I am not. How can you write it to a person that wrote tens of times about the Palestinian refugees and the Palestinian sufferings etc? How can I deny it when I know personally several Palestinians lost their relatives in this cruel conflict?

“and you want to be treated fairly? you and your side kick who insinuated i was a holocaust denier?”
Sorry, Annie, did I mention the Holocaust? Did I say that you are holocaust denier? Never!!! I didn’t say it and will not say it, not even with a “side kick”. Please, look at my profile and bring me one link that I wrote it. As much as I remember I didn’t mention the Holocaust in my comments (only once several days ago when I wrote “I didn’t mention the Holocaust”). Why do you think so??? please, don’t rewrite me again. It is just not fair to do it. BTW, I don’t know if you notice, but I try to speak in a simple language and to avoid personal attacks. I will never write to a person things like, for instance, “moron, idiot, dumb” or “you are xxx denier”. I refer to the content of the message and not to the person himself.

“woody, the focus on ‘first zionists’ is a diversion. the first zionists were dead and gone by the time the state came along. they were not even around for the nakba. and they lived in an era of colonization run amok.”

annie,
Diversion or not, the Nakba’s true beginning in with these first zionists.

““We appeal – in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months”

LMAO. Yeah, they were just minding their own business liquidating Arab villiages and ethnically cleansing when WHAM!!! out of the blue, those same Arabs launched an onslaught.

“to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the up building of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship”

LMAO. Yeah, a generation of these very same people being held under martial law by this same “state” demonstrates how sincere this offer was made. And asking them to “build up” a state founded on ethnoreligious supremacist ideology is kind of like asking African-Americans to help “build up” the Jim Crow South.

“and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.”

And, of course, the zios get to decide how much is “due” to the Palestinians…

MahaneYehude1 “The first Zionists came to the land of Israel (or Palestine, if you want) in 1882, what we call “the first Aliyah”.”

And they were able to obtain legal citizenship, buy land anywhere in Palestine and settle. In Herzl’s life time, he could have done likewise, immigrated, obtained legal citizenship, bought land anywhere in Palestine and settled. He didn’t. Quite strange.

The Zionist Federation blew the opportunity for Jewish folk to settle anywhere in their historic homeland by demanding a Jewish state . Its citizens are prohibited by International Law from illegally settling in territories occupied by Israel. The only way Jewish folk can legally live anywhere in Palestine is by becoming Palestinian citizens.

MahaneYehude1 says: “Why they didn’t asked for better land but chose this tiny land called Israel, half non fertile desert land, little water resources, no mineral rich mines and no diamonds? why they chose this land if they had to use BS?”

Messianic ambitions.

“First, for us this land was always and is “the land of Israel”. I don’t care if you call this land Palestine after the name of the Philistines.”

For the world it was called Palestine in 1948. And I don’t care if you call this land after the ancient Israelites or if others call them after the Canaanites.

October 2, 2013, 11:30 am

It is amazing to see again and again how leaders of such dark regime violating all possible human rights in the worst possible manner
(see e. g. link to amnesty.org.)
are so much tended to and even loved by the crowd here. Just because this dark regime is anti Israel. Don’t you have second thoughts at where this Israel bashing takes you? Not much to be proud off, heh?

Stick a sock in it, zio. People here simply aren’t falling for the zionist nonsense about the boogieman threat that you people are pushing, in order to start yet another war, in order to make the zionist entity a regional hegemon. One need not love the Iranian regime to see that it is in the right on this point and that humanity would be best served by stopping the rush to yet another war based on lies.

And a supporter of the illegitmiate racist state of israel, which commits the kinds of crimes against humanity which it does and has for generations, really has no business calling out any other state on its human rights record, unless she or he is prepared to utterly condemn his or her own. So unless you are willing to admit the evil that israel has perpetually committed, since the start, against the Palestinian people. Attend to the plank in your own eye.

“Don’t you have second thoughts at where this Israel bashing takes you?”

Hopefully it will lead to the elimination of the possiblity of yet another war built on lie to benefit your apartheid state, and liberation from tyranny for the Palestinian people. No second thoughts about that. Those are two glorious things.

“Not much to be proud off, heh?”

Trying to stave off more israeli crime in the region?? Yes, very much something to be proud of.

>> It is amazing to see again and again how leaders of such dark regime … are so much tended to and even loved by the crowd here.

I condemn Iranian injustices; I expect Iran to honour its obligations under international law and to be held accountable for its (war) crimes; and I advocate for Iran as a secular, democratic and egalitarian Iranian state – a state of and for all its Iranian citizens, equally.

Tell me that you condemn Israeli injustices; that you expect Israel to honour its obligations under international law and to be held accountable for its (war) crimes; and that you advocate for Israel as a secular, democratic and egalitarian Israeli state – a state of and for all its Israeli citizens, equally.

Don’t you have second thoughts at where this Israel bashing takes you?

I tend to bash Israel here for failing miserably at complying with fundamental international law, i.e. the customary rules adopted by states to govern their mutual relations out of a sense of perceived obligation. Don’t Israelis ever have second thoughts about where violations will eventually take you?

Contrary to the claims of boffins like Dershowitz, customary norms are considered legally binding and are not based upon consent in the case of the ones pertaining to international criminal law.

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