Then we can bring up XEN or KVM and launch a VM. We will need to compile the 4.x kernel for arm or arm64. We will also need a minimal rootfs to install into the VM such as a debbootstrap image with no packages installed; just pure unmodified debian.

The first milestone is to insert a USB tuner into the C2 and have it show up in the VM kernel with V4L2/DVB driver loaded.The second milestone is to compile and run tvheadend and configure it to use the tuner.The final milestone is to have Kodi either on C2 or running remotely, successfully use the tvheadend instance in the VM.

Hello.Buy RTC option module is not possible. Because the module price, and delivery to my country will be expensive.I have the opportunity through a friend now (2 yl March 4) to buy the C2. Later friend will leave from Korea.

Talking about resellers, there is something i wonder...How come HK didn't make a deal with either :- a big electronics reseller company such as rs-spares/farnell/mouser/etc...- or create his own store in a big online marketplace (for example amazon which can host your stock and deal with shipping)

IMHO, it would make the buying process much easier (for westerners at least).

nobe wrote:Talking about resellers, there is something i wonder...How come HK didn't make a deal with either :- a big electronics reseller company such as rs-spares/farnell/mouser/etc...- or create his own store in a big online marketplace (for example amazon which can host your stock and deal with shipping)

IMHO, it would make the buying process much easier (for westerners at least).

I suspect the volumes are too low to make this worth while? You don't see many dev boards on Amazon other than Raspberry Pis, nor do you see RS / Farnell selling many third-party low-cost dev boards outside the Pi. The Beaglebones and Arduinos are the exception to this I guess, but they are also quite high volume.

There are shops selling Odroids on Amazon. I can get a C1 for $48.99USD, XU4 for $109.99USD on Amazon today. I do not think its as much an issue of volume as it is the markup for each "middle man" involved.

Half of the stuff talked in this thread seem over my head, or not my use case.

I have been using Asus Transformer T100 hybrid tablet as my 'desktop pc' with an external monitor, keyboard and mouse for about a year, however prior that I had been using Ubuntu as my OS, and I miss that (not planning to install linux on T100). The specs of Odroid C2 seem to match T100 am I right?

1. I wonder if browsing the web with (chromium on debian? or ubuntu if chromium gets fixed for that) C2 would be as snappy as it is with the Asus Transformer Windows 8.1 32bit w/ google chrome? With this I usually have up to dozen tabs open, and I can switch between them in milliseconds, there is no clear lag. However with firefox there is a bit of too much lag. It has Intel Z3775 Quad Core and 2gb ram.

2. Being ARM processor, I wonder if there is some extra difficulties to get some usb devices to work. I would need to get my usb hub, wireless deltaco keyboard and mouse, my logitech gamepad and my Realtek RTL8191SU LAN 802.11n USB 2.0 wlan adapter to work.

3. Special linux software I would want to get to work would be qjoypad or another simple gamepad to keyboard emulator. Then optionally I am curious, if Hearthstone would work through wine on this C2. I did play hearthstone a year ago on ubuntu through wine without problems.

I have no problem with some extra efforts needed in installing and tweaking, but if it involves me myself needing to write some firmware or modify drivers, it would be over my head.

No matter what anyone says, there is no ARM based board that is a replacement for a PC available at any cost. Why is this? ...

fuloating wrote:Then optionally I am curious, if Hearthstone would work through wine on this C2. I did play hearthstone a year ago on ubuntu through wine without problems.

Because people wanting a PC replacement want to run PC software. ARM boards are not PC compatible.

With regard to #1, it depends entirely on the web page you are viewing. These days web pages are programs (javascript) designed for the characteristics of PC. They are rarely satisfactory on an ARM board due to various factors like video codecs or Flash dependencies.

For #2, if your device works with RedHat Enterprise Linux 7 or CentOS 7, it will likely work on the C2 if you are using Ubuntu and not Android. This is due to the Linux kernel and not the device itself.

For #3, the C2 does not work with any PC games or Steam Linux games. Some can run in emulation with varying results.

fuloating wrote:I have no problem with some extra efforts needed in installing and tweaking, but if it involves me myself needing to write some firmware or modify drivers, it would be over my head.

The C2 is an ARM development board. It requires technical experience to use. It is not meant to be a PC replacement or a beginner's computer. This is true for all ARM boards despite any propaganda otherwise even if the product website has cartoon drawings on it. If you want a PC replacement, look for something that is Intel or AMD, not ARM, based.

Ugh, so my C2 running Android just decided to start freezing at the boot logo.

Connected UART and can see it's actually running, debugging now but I can't imagine what the cause is other than possible disk corruption from a power outage. It was running fine, lost Internet (ISP issue), decided to reboot and it is stuck on bootlogo.

crashoverride wrote:Because people wanting a PC replacement want to run PC software. ARM boards are not PC compatible.

For #2, if your device works with RedHat Enterprise Linux 7 or CentOS 7, it will likely work on the C2 if you are using Ubuntu and not Android. This is due to the Linux kernel and not the device itself.

For #3, the C2 does not work with any PC games or Steam Linux games. Some can run in emulation with varying results.

The C2 is an ARM development board. It requires technical experience to use. It is not meant to be a PC replacement or a beginner's computer. This is true for all ARM boards despite any propaganda otherwise even if the product website has cartoon drawings on it. If you want a PC replacement, look for something that is Intel or AMD, not ARM, based.

@crashoverride +1

Well said, that's exactly what should be told to new users as well as how manufacturers should advertise such products genuinely, of course.

Regarding distribution of C2 and other HK products (a previous thread within this thread):

My experience is that that while HK has multiple "exclusive" distributors, it also sells direct via their website so I do not feel it is difficult to acquire HK products but do find this approach a bit strange as the prices are best on the HK website so aside from shipping issues why would anyone buy from a distributor?

One answer to that question is that HK seems to want to wall themselves off from individual contact and support while I can phone up Ameridroid and speak to a real and pleasant person regarding a purchase or terms question I may have.

In theory a distributor makes its money on reduced price bulk buying while relieving HK from the cost and complexity of retail contact and issues. If this is their intent then why sell direct via their website? At the same time we have tried to structure a bulk purchase order with HK as we have used HK products as development boards and are now ready to incorporate into end market products but have not found anyone seeming to even understand this concept.

If HK wants to have at least some users move from development into HK SBC integration then they need to open up bulk oem purchase agreements for those wanting to buy in bulk to support a deliverable product using HK SBCs. HK should support and position their distributors for retail and development sales but have a door for those that move from development into production to be able to purchase direct from the manufacturer.

The current arrangement undermines the sales of their own distributors while turning off anyone who could buy multiple units for production and thereby ramp volume for HK.

HK should not sell direct via their website and so give greater support to their distributors while at the same time establishing a purchasing function for companies wishing to buy in bulk for incorporation of HK SBCs into their products.

The current structure does not maximize benefits to end users, developers or production ready companies much less HK's distributors.

tk501 wrote:Regarding distribution of C2 and other HK products (a previous thread within this thread):

My experience is that that while HK has multiple "exclusive" distributors, it also sells direct via their website so I do not feel it is difficult to acquire HK products but do find this approach a bit strange as the prices are best on the HK website so aside from shipping issues why would anyone buy from a distributor?

Err. Shipping issues are a main factor in buying from a local retailer rather than HK direct.

The costs of shipping (once you include hidden costs such sales taxes and other import dutiess AND shipping costs) mean buying from a local dealer is often cheaper, and delivery is a lot faster. (Next day wouldn't be unusual)

It includes what I believe is something similar to omxplayer (from Pi), or a hardware accelerated media player for the framebuffer. It's called "kplayer" which is part of libplayer.

I also notice amlogic released a new buildroot for various devices including the S805 (M200 & M201), it includes X (or not, your choice) along with mplayer and gstreamer with straight gplay support. I wonder how accelerated all this is, especially gstreamer and X. And if we can use this on the C1+.

dukla2000 wrote:Out of curiosity how many Mali-450 cores are there? C2 wiki page says triple core and Amlogic S905 page says penta core: I guess this is fairly new silicon and there could be different versions?

In fact, there are 5 GPU cores.3 fragment(pixel) processors and 2 vertex shader(geometric) processors.But normally we are counting only the number of fragment processors in this industry.So the "Mali-450 MP3" is more accurate.

Hi, I am looking at pre-ordering from a UK reseller, but I can;t find out what type of emmc will fit the C2 - is it the same as the C1, the XU4, or another format not listed on their site yet? (http://www.liymo.com/mc-odroid)

A few suggestions for the future (If they can't be applied to the C2, it would be nice to see them in a future device):

1. According to some hard-to-find information, uBoot supports a type of fallback image (altbootcmd is all I can actually find documented) in case the kernel does not boot properly. It would be nice to see this implemented in odroid-c2 so that we can test different kernels without having to reflash the device in case of failure.

2. On a related note, is there any chance of getting serial over the micro-usb port? The CHIP has this, and it's very convenient.

3. The CHIP has does have a couple other nice features as well that would be nice to see in the more powerful/capable Odroids: it has a component out that can be easily plugged into any old tv (I realize this is unlikely to happen, but I can hope), and it has a battery charging circuit built-in--I can wire in the battery from one of my cheap powerbanks directly, and it manages keeping itself charged; this also helps with sharp power draws and allows me to use a cheaper 1A cellphone charger instead of buying a 2A one. It would be nice if the Odroid-C2 had this built-in instead of requiring a second board for this--and even nicer yet if the case was slightly taller to make room for putting the battery inside the case itself. Most powerbanks have either a 18650 or similar battery inside, though I've seen some flat ones lately that don't.

4. CHIP also has built-in wifi and bluetooth. This would be awesome. The Odroid-C2 seems powerful enough to just use it as secondary desktop/laptop for browsing the web and word processing. If this can't be added onto a future chip, it might be a decent idea to have a USB header on the board, so it can be placed conveniently/permanently without sticking out of the case

5.

nobe wrote:- or create his own store in a big online marketplace (for example amazon which can host your stock and deal with shipping)IMHO, it would make the buying process much easier (for westerners at least).

So much this. All you have to do is ship your product to Amazon. They have fulfillment centers in the EU, US, Europe, Canada, and Japan. Too bad there's nothing like the old radio shack anymore, that would have been a perfect place to sell this.

efreak wrote:A few suggestions for the future (If they can't be applied to the C2, it would be nice to see them in a future device):

1. According to some hard-to-find information, uBoot supports a type of fallback image (altbootcmd is all I can actually find documented) in case the kernel does not boot properly. It would be nice to see this implemented in odroid-c2 so that we can test different kernels without having to reflash the device in case of failure.

2. On a related note, is there any chance of getting serial over the micro-usb port? The CHIP has this, and it's very convenient.

3. The CHIP has does have a couple other nice features as well that would be nice to see in the more powerful/capable Odroids: it has a component out that can be easily plugged into any old tv (I realize this is unlikely to happen, but I can hope), and it has a battery charging circuit built-in--I can wire in the battery from one of my cheap powerbanks directly, and it manages keeping itself charged; this also helps with sharp power draws and allows me to use a cheaper 1A cellphone charger instead of buying a 2A one. It would be nice if the Odroid-C2 had this built-in instead of requiring a second board for this--and even nicer yet if the case was slightly taller to make room for putting the battery inside the case itself. Most powerbanks have either a 18650 or similar battery inside, though I've seen some flat ones lately that don't.

4. CHIP also has built-in wifi and bluetooth. This would be awesome. The Odroid-C2 seems powerful enough to just use it as secondary desktop/laptop for browsing the web and word processing. If this can't be added onto a future chip, it might be a decent idea to have a USB header on the board, so it can be placed conveniently/permanently without sticking out of the case

5.

nobe wrote:- or create his own store in a big online marketplace (for example amazon which can host your stock and deal with shipping)IMHO, it would make the buying process much easier (for westerners at least).

So much this. All you have to do is ship your product to Amazon. They have fulfillment centers in the EU, US, Europe, Canada, and Japan. Too bad there's nothing like the old radio shack anymore, that would have been a perfect place to sell this.

1. Useless, you don't have to reflash if you screw the kernel, just connect the eMMC or MicroSD to your PC and replace the Image file.Even better? You can use uBoot "ums" command to emulate the card to your PC without removing using by using the usb otg port.

2. Yes, its easy to implement, however the serial console would be only enabled after the OS boot. Making it kinda not so useful.Because if you are trying to figure out why your board doesn't boot....

3. Component out is there.. Its a hole named "CVBS" you need to solder the female connector on the board..I like the idea of battery charging like C0.Having a Single cell support would be nice.

4. I don't like the idea of having Wifi and BT onboard, that kills the possibility to upgrade to whatever you want to use..Some people may want to use 802.11ac dual-band dongles.. that wouldn't fit on C2 footprint.The USB header may be quite tricky.

efreak wrote:1. According to some hard-to-find information, uBoot supports a type of fallback image (altbootcmd is all I can actually find documented) in case the kernel does not boot properly. It would be nice to see this implemented in odroid-c2 so that we can test different kernels without having to reflash the device in case of failure.

You may keep an eye on u-571. I still need to finish the readme documentation. I'm using it to switch between different u-boot configurations in a convenient way. Each configuration carries its own kernel, initrd, uEnv (including rootfs setting). The feature you mentioned above could be added easily.

efreak wrote:1. According to some hard-to-find information, uBoot supports a type of fallback image (altbootcmd is all I can actually find documented) in case the kernel does not boot properly. It would be nice to see this implemented in odroid-c2 so that we can test different kernels without having to reflash the device in case of failure.

You may keep an eye on u-571. I still need to finish the readme documentation. I'm using it to switch between different u-boot configurations in a convenient way. Each configuration carries its own kernel, initrd, uEnv (including rootfs setting). The feature you mentioned above could be added easily.

efreak wrote:A few suggestions for the future (If they can't be applied to the C2, it would be nice to see them in a future device):

1) The boot.ini file used by uboot is a script. You can modify it to multi-boot today. A re-flash is not necessary to boot alternate kernels. Kernels are just regular files stored in the FAT32 partition and you can have more than one file as long as the name is different. You could modify boot.ini to read a GPIO pin (push button) to select alternate kernels (different file names) and configurations (kernel command line parameters). Its not complicated at all as it only involved boot.ini scripting and not modifications to uboot or the kernels.

2) Serial over USB OTG is provided by the linux kernel. Its simply a matter of "turning it on".

3) The engineering sample board has a hole marked CVBS which should provide composite video output just as it does on the C1.

4) Based on past experience with other boards with built in WIFI, the best option to is to use a USB device of your choosing. The first issue is always bandwidth: The choice of a/b/g/n/ac is very end user specific. Some will never even use WIFI since there is built in gigabit ethernet. The second issue is capabilities: access point, vpn, wifi-direct, antenna(s) are also end user specific needs. Finally, there is the issue with drivers and firmware: built in wifi typically uses a SDIO interface that requires drivers and firmware to be configured for the specific interface and its capabilities. The "Wifi Module Zero" is a much better solution in my opinion. Its low cost, low profile, and you do not pay for it unless you actually choose to.https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/wifi-module-0/

5) Its more than just shipping your product to Amazon. There are contracts involved and additional markups. As I stated before, you can currently buy Odroids on Amazon today but at higher prices. I currently prefer my regional distributor (Ameridroid) that has fast delivery and sensible shipping rates.

efreak wrote:3. The CHIP has does have a couple other nice features as well that would be nice to see in the more powerful/capable Odroids: it has a component out that can be easily plugged into any old tv (I realize this is unlikely to happen, but I can hope)

Correct, bcm43438 is connected by SDIO for WiFi and UART for bluetooth. We don't do fat channels - 20MHz = 72mbit/s.

For those demanding a RPi with even slower networking than 10/100 ethernet, your wish has been granted. The even better news is that you get to pay for it whether you use it or not.

Isn't that because N150 only delivers 150 performance with 'Fat' 40MHz channels, which aren't allowed to be used in many regions? (I'm pretty certain we can't use them in the UK for regulatory reasons).

This isn't unique to the Pi 3 - it's pretty much standard across the board with WiFi gear? Stuff is labelled N150 but in many regions is effectively N75 (and you never get the max throughput of the standard)

Given that the Pi3 has a new SoC and the Bluetooth (to me more useful than WiFi) and WiFI are integrated, and it as at the same price as the Pi 2, that seems pretty good to me.

The Pi 3 is not an ODroid C2. The C2 has a better hardware spec, but the Pis benefit from much better support. (Their are 4.5 beta kernels for the Pi, whereas the C2 is shipping with 3.14LTS - which is EOL in August this year? This is the bigger issue for me)

** EDIT - I see Hardkernel and AMLogic have agreed to start work on a 4.4LTS kernel in May. Fingers crossed that will be for S805 and S905 devices **

Correct, bcm43438 is connected by SDIO for WiFi and UART for bluetooth. We don't do fat channels - 20MHz = 72mbit/s.

For those demanding a RPi with even slower networking than 10/100 ethernet, your wish has been granted. The even better news is that you get to pay for it whether you use it or not.

Personally, most of my Odroid usage, has been experimenting with installing them in Robots and run them headless, so for me I am paying for Lan, plus HDMI, plus... But I am not complaining.

Personally I wish there was a version of the C0 or C2 that had WIFI and BT built in. I now see there are instructions for soldering on the new wifi dongle (like an Edimax size) onto the C0, which is fine, but, a typical USB configuration might be: Wifi, BT (talk to DS3 or DS4), Servo controller board (USB2AX or Arbotix Pro, or Teensy 3.2 based board), and camera. Needless to say not all 4 will work with the 2 USB prots of C0. I am currently in the process of setting up the communications with Servo board to use TTL serial port, so can setup the XU4 to work with the three USB ports...

Another reason why I wish Odroid had the wifi built on the board, is for that board the wifi would be standardized, and then maybe some one would add simple wifi configuration stuff to odroid-utility. About the only time I plug an Odroid into monitor (TV) and keyboard and mouse, is to do the initial setup. Would be nice if one could do like the Intel Edison, and simply plug it in, using debug cable, have it boot, run the utility, where it can do a scan for local networks and ask you to enter password or the like and you are setup... But maybe this is just wishful thinking.

However please note: I put my order in yesterday for the C2! And I have not ordered an RPI3 (yet).