well im not sure if i need another 1,4k hit since im capped already on both exp and hit and still have 75% mastery

Even with the hit rating only going towards white swings it is as good as Bad Juju. If you can make use of ANY of the hit rating it will be better.

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 12:54 PM ----------

Originally Posted by DakonBlackblade

The problem is not the 522 trinkets beeing underpowered, its Bottle beeing retardedly overpowered. When I upgraded for normal Terror to heroic bottle with 2 valor upgrades I gained more DPS tham when I got my heroic dagger from Stone guards... thats way too freaking much for a trinket.

Even so, the twenty ilvl difference should have at least closed the gap. Currently, it looks like the only normal mode trinket to surpass Bottle is the Shado Pan trinket. Kind of sad really.

I'm just going to post my current list for normal mode trinkets here for assassination with my current gear (9% haste). If you'd like to compare it to yours (in relative standing because of different EP values I guess), I'd appreciate it. Some others may have some use for it as well. Don't quote me on this list though, math is not exact and doesn't take everything into account yet.
Also, I didn't use white hit for the VP trinket but rather our best non-cappable stat (which is not mastery since mastery is forged on every item anyway) which we would gain through having more hit - in this case crit.

I'm just going to post my current list for normal mode trinkets here. If you'd like to compare it to yours (in relative standing because of different EP values I guess), I'd appreciate it. Some others may have some use for it as well. Don't quote me on this list though, math is not exact and doesn't take everything into account yet.
Also, I didn't use white hit for the VP trinket but rather our best non-cappable stat (which is not mastery since mastery is forged on every item anyway) which we would gain through having more hit - in this case crit.

Name

EP

Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault

6108.19

Bottle of Infinite Stars (510)

6070.66

Talisman of Bloodlust

5799.94 [NOT EXACT]

Terror in the Mists (517)

5493.32

Rune of Re-Origination

5453.97

Bad Juju

5405.43

Renataki's Soul Charm

5354.35

Well the hunter in my group will be happy he can have all the trinkets that drop ffrom normal lol, unless the EPs are similar for him as well in wich case were gona be disenchanting alot...

Rune of Re-Origination - Not worth calculating. This trinket's value is very very dependent on your gear. It will be worth less if your gear is well itemized, or more if its badly itemized. It also gets boosted quite a bit if paired with Talisman of Bloodlust since you cannot be brought below 0 haste.

Originally Posted by Javanface

Out of curiosity, what amount of haste have you used to get the EP's for Bad Juju and Renataki's Soul Charm?

I am using 15% average haste, which is quite close to what you would expect for Assassination.

Depressing to say the least. Even though I only managed to snag the normal bottle and upgrade it, it seems like Soul Charm and Bad Juju are rough side-grades.

I'm sure the new trinkets will get a small buff to their RPPM values, or we'll just see a nerf to bottle as that's the easiest fix and in line with the changes we're seeing at the moment. (i.e. fix the symptom, not the underlying issue).

Things will get better as we gear up. As we get more haste the proc rate will increase, and the value as well. In addition, grabbing a Talisman of Bloodlust will add a sizable chunk of value to your other PPM trinkets, and will also put increasing returns on haste, so it will most likely be our #2 stat.

Things will get better as we gear up. As we get more haste the proc rate will increase, and the value as well. In addition, grabbing a Talisman of Bloodlust will add a sizable chunk of value to your other PPM trinkets, and will also put increasing returns on haste, so it will most likely be our #2 stat.

The main problem will be the gap between now and heroic Talisman.

I've been real slack with the implementation of the rppm mechanic, is bottle not on it as well?

It just means that you are not overcapping hit, and instead gaining crit on your gear in other places through reforging.

Tought he was refering to somethign on the mathemathical modelling of the trinket EP value, didnt ocur to em he was actualy talking about reforge hehe, ty for the answer.

Shouldnt we be converting hit to mastery them or is crit suposed to be a better secondary stat tham mastery on 5.2 now ? Im trying to catch up of theorycrafting here before the patch goes live hehe, havent been following it too closely during the PTR.

Tought he was refering to somethign on the mathemathical modelling of the trinket EP value, didnt ocur to em he was actualy talking about reforge hehe, ty for the answer.

Shouldnt we be converting hit to mastery them or is crit suposed to be a better secondary stat tham mastery on 5.2 now ? Im trying to catch up of theorycrafting here before the patch goes live hehe, havent been following it too closely during the PTR.

Mastery will probably still be better, but for assassination we're likely to be using alot of gear with mastery on it already, meaning you can't actually reforge that hit into mastery.

Tought he was refering to somethign on the mathemathical modelling of the trinket EP value, didnt ocur to em he was actualy talking about reforge hehe, ty for the answer.

Shouldnt we be converting hit to mastery them or is crit suposed to be a better secondary stat tham mastery on 5.2 now ? Im trying to catch up of theorycrafting here before the patch goes live hehe, havent been following it too closely during the PTR.

In general, your other gear will either have mastery on it already or will already be reforged to mastery. Therefore, in order to take off the hit on the trinket, you have to make some non-ideal reforges on other pieces.

I.e., you would reforge hit to mastery on the trinket of course, but on another piece of gear that has say, hit/haste, you may have to reforge that hit into crit rating instead of the haste into mastery.

Why wouldnt you reforge hit into mastery on this situation ? I see you reforging hit to cirt if the piece had hit/mastery but if its hit/haste why not go for hit -> mastery instead of crit ?

Oops. I am sleepy. I've been awake for 25 hours working on a project for school and it looks like it starting to affect me.

Anyhow, what I meant to say, is if you have a hit/mastery piece you would reforge the hit rating off for crit. Or if you had a hit/crit piece you would reforge the hit away instead of crit.

Basically you gain a lot of your second best stat. Sorry for the outright wrong information there.

The situations for reforging are heavily dependent on your gear and I couple MAYBE see reforging off hit instead of crit on a piece of hit/crit gear if you have so much hit, you can't get rid of it all. However, in most scenarios, it makes more sense to keep the hit on that item in order to not have to sacrifice a higher EP stat such as Mastery/Haste. Remember, the goal of reforging should be to minimize your less useful stats while maximizing your more beneficial stats.

The situations for reforging are heavily dependent on your gear and I couple MAYBE see reforging off hit instead of crit on a piece of hit/crit gear if you have so much hit, you can't get rid of it all. However, in most scenarios, it makes more sense to keep the hit on that item in order to not have to sacrifice a higher EP stat such as Mastery/Haste. Remember, the goal of reforging should be to minimize your less useful stats while maximizing your more beneficial stats.

Right. And when you're 1k hit rating over the cap due to this trinket (Shado pan assault one), you'll be wanting to reforge away from hit since its only worth ~2/3rds of the next highest stat.