Prepping a Mac For Re-Sale: OS X 10.7/10.8 License / Apple ID?

I'll start off by saying this could be a non-issue because I don't have experience with 10.7 or 10.8. I did purchase 10.7 off the App Store when it came out, but due to bad reviews I didn't install it. I figured I'd wait a few months for bugs to be ironed out, but I got really busy with work and by the time I was considering it, 10.8 was out already and so I'm still using 10.6.8 on my laptops.

In the past when I wanted to sell a Mac, it was pretty trivial, I would put the original DVD media back in, reinstall from scratch, and use a "fake" name when signing into the Mac. The theory being that all my personal data was gone, the OS with the latest updates was on the machine, and the new owner could easily create a new Admin user with the name and password of their choice.

With 10.7 and 10.8, I am led to believe the "license" is tied to your AppleID and not physical media. I do not want to hand over a used Mac to the new buyer with my AppleID installed on there.

The cynical part of me believes that the switch to the App Store for OS X updates is going to make re-selling Macs significantly more difficult, and this is by design to reduce the secondary market (that Apple doesn't get a piece of) and boost primary sales.

Ars-ians are very clever and tech savvy, and I'm sure some of you have recommendations on how to best handle re-selling a Mac given the current state of 10.7 and 10.8. I'll note that in my specific case, I'll just sell my laptops with 10.6.8 and tell the new buyer to buy the $20 upgrade on the Apple Store if they want to upgrade. My bigger concern is what will happen going forward when 10.8+ comes installed on the machines.

Perhaps they still come with a USB restore key like my Macbook Air did, and I can "restore" to a base system with no Apple ID paired, making this a totally non-issue.

With 10.7 and 10.8, I am led to believe the "license" is tied to your AppleID and not physical media. I do not want to hand over a used Mac to the new buyer with my AppleID installed on there.

If you're using "license" in the proper, legal sense then I think yes, it's per entity, although in practice if you stuck it on a USB stick and bundled it with a machine and got rid of your own copy (or bought another) I don't see any moral objection.

In the technical sense though no, your Apple ID has nothing to do with it. Client OS X doesn't use DRM or license codes or similar and never has (though the Server version did at one point). Make a USB stick and it's the same as it ever was. It's the honor system, which is really the right way to do it.

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The cynical part of me believes that the switch to the App Store for OS X updates is going to make re-selling Macs significantly more difficult, and this is by design to reduce the secondary market (that Apple doesn't get a piece of) and boost primary sales.

The cynical part of me believes that the switch to the App Store for OS X updates is going to make re-selling Macs significantly more difficult, and this is by design to reduce the secondary market (that Apple doesn't get a piece of) and boost primary sales.

... I'll just sell my laptops with 10.6.8 and tell the new buyer to buy the $20 upgrade on the Apple Store if they want to upgrade.

You are right...that does sound "significantly more difficult."

You could also create a new AppleID, spend $20 on a new ML license and include it in the sale.

As for new machines, it might make sense to register the machine and its included copy of Mountain Lion under a new/unique AppleID so that when it comes time for sale, you can just give that AppleID to the new owner.

For new machines, I *think* the license is tied to the individual computer, not your Apple ID – if you buy a new Mac, I don't think that then allows you to install Mountain Lion on all your other Macs, and I don't think re-installing the OS requires an Apple ID on a machine that came with that OS. iLife is tied to your ID, though, as are OS X upgrades you bought yourself, obviously.

The Apple ID has nothing to do with the OS. You can download the installer and copy it to another machine that has never been signed into the app store and install it and it will be fine. You're unnecessarily concerned.

I've been a bit curious about this too (although I don't have this problem to deal with right now).

With the iLife apps that come with new machines (post OS X 10.7), this may be a bit more cumbersome. I'd presume that iLife is also tied to the machine like the OS when it comes preinstalled. If you wish to wipe out the Mac and make it like a fresh OS X/iLife setup before selling, you would need to backup the iLife apps before wiping the machine and then restore them after reinstalling OS X, wouldn't you?

With 10.7 and 10.8, I am led to believe the "license" is tied to your AppleID and not physical media. I do not want to hand over a used Mac to the new buyer with my AppleID installed on there.

I think your Apple ID is only used to download apps from the Mac App Store, but it isn't "tied" to the installed OS in any way.

For example: I have two MacBooks here that I upgraded to Mountain Lion – one is mine and the other is my wife's. First, I bought Mountain Lion using my Apple ID and installed it on my own machine. Then, I signed into the Mac App Store on her machine with my Apple ID, re-downloaded Mountain Lion for free, and installed it on hers. During the setup process, I used her Apple ID to set up iCloud, etc. When it was done and booted back up, I signed out of the store and then signed back in with her Apple ID. So nothing on her machine is using my Apple ID for anything.

In other words, the only thing your Apple ID is tied to is your own Mac App Store purchase history (so that you can re-download purchased apps for free). Once the OS X installer (which is just a big disk image) is downloaded, then it's no different than if you were installing it off of a DVD. At least, as far as I know.

Hrmm. I see a lot of "I think it's this way" and "I'm pretty sure it's that way," but very little that's definitive.

Other than DaGuy, who else has actually nuked and paved a 10.7/10.8 Mac without using their own Apple ID?

What about Lion Internet Restore?

If you boot and install from a USB stick - no Apple ID required (done it multiple times), but if I simply copy the installer over to a new machine and try to run it, it will try to authorize with the Apple Store.

Hrmm. I see a lot of "I think it's this way" and "I'm pretty sure it's that way," but very little that's definitive.

Other than DaGuy, who else has actually nuked and paved a 10.7/10.8 Mac without using their own Apple ID?

What about Lion Internet Restore?

If you boot and install from a USB stick - no Apple ID required (done it multiple times), but if I simply copy the installer over to a new machine and try to run it, it will try to authorize with the Apple Store.

I've nuked and paved multiple Macs with 10.7 and 10.8 with a DVD burned copy of 10.8 (including a computer I sold with 10.7)

iLife is tied to your ID, though, as are OS X upgrades you bought yourself, obviously.

What do you mean by "tied" and "license" here? If you're referring to Apple's EULA then the store is per human/ID I believe, and whatever comes with the machine is there with the machine. To reiterate though from a technical POV the OS is neither tied nor even utilizing Apple ID. Obviously re-downloading it from the MAS would require it to be attached to whatever Apple ID being used to login to the MAS, but if the installer is saved it can be used wherever and whenever, on as many machines as desired indefinitely. It's effectively a system image with a bit of soft partition and other smart install logic baked into a shell around it.

daGUY wrote:

I think your Apple ID is only used to download apps from the Mac App Store, but it isn't "tied" to the installed OS in any way.

Correct, at least as far as OS X goes. I believe may be some sort of DRM (FairPlay type stuff) on general applications, but since I avoid the MAS 100% beyond the OS I don't know. I downloaded Xcode once from the MAS as well and there were no install restrictions there either.

stevenkan wrote:

Hrmm. I see a lot of "I think it's this way" and "I'm pretty sure it's that way," but very little that's definitive.

I was definitive in the second post of the thread.

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Other than DaGuy, who else has actually nuked and paved a 10.7/10.8 Mac without using their own Apple ID?

I have never used any procedure other then nuke/pave via DVD/USB or NetInstall for any major OS X upgrade except maybe 10.1 . Recent ones included. I thought that was completely common knowledge honestly, people dug into the installer of 10.7 I think even before general release. There were guides for sticking it on a USB Stick or whatever day 1, and of course Apple continues to officially support use of SIU and NetBoot/NetInstall even though they've let themselves get lazy and buggy there.

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What about Lion Internet Restore?

I've never used it and never see myself using it either, so I can't really comment there.

Addendum: as a practical matter though I don't see this being of much importance anymore, with one exception below. Given that being able to redownload the OS on demand is useful and the price is $20 now, it's trivial for anyone to just grab it on their own Apple ID if they're interested. Even from a system imaging point of view it's not without value-add since Apple slipstreams each point update into the MAS installer as it goes along. That makes it mildly more convenient to maintain image workflows. If you're that worried about it with a new machine just bake the price into your sale price.

The one irritating exception would be that I don't think they will sell new copies of the old OS (at least I don't see it in a search). So if you're selling a machine that can't run the current major version it would be good practice to save the installer and include it on a USB stick, and make sure to inform the buyer that they should back it up on their own and hang onto it if they don't already own it. Otherwise they'll have to get it from a friend or on the net somewhere.

Yeah, looking around a bit it appears that all applications in general are automatically wrapped in some sort of FairPlay stuff and that it's even tied to the hardware in terms of recognition. The InstallESD isn't though.

jarends wrote:

Once a mac is upgraded can't you use the recovery partition to boot and nuke and reinstall without an apple id?

When you reinstall the OS from the recovery partition (or internet recovery), Apple checks if you're eligible to download the OS. You are allowed to redownload the OS that came with your computer, and I assume (haven't tried this) that if you upgraded, Apple has a way to check for that, with or without logging in with your AppleID.

I wouldn't overthink the legal issues, though. Apple clearly doesn't believe in downgrading, and they'd probably prefer it if the new owner ran ML instead of SL, anyway. Apart from that, if they make it incredibly hard to resell your computer and software, which is your right, then they can't really complain when that happens in a way that they don't like.

That said, there are two issues: if the buyer ever has to reinstall the OS, they need to be able to do that in some way. So you'd have to create an AppleID for that, which doesn't really work, because they'll forget the password (remember, this only becomes relevant when the OS is hosed, making it hard to check mail or notes), or create an install USB flashdrive, which costs extra money and still doesn't provide the iLife apps. So if the machine came with 10.6, reinstall that, and they'll have a fully functional machine that can easily be upgraded without any hassles on either side.

When you reinstall the OS from the recovery partition (or internet recovery), Apple checks if you're eligible to download the OS. You are allowed to redownload the OS that came with your computer, and I assume (haven't tried this) that if you upgraded, Apple has a way to check for that, with or without logging in with your AppleID.

I can confirm this, as I've done Internet Restore many, many times. The installer prompts for an Apple ID in order to authorize the download and won't proceed without it. HOWEVER, signing in with an Apple ID after the initial authorization is not required. It will ask you for your Apple ID if you want to enable iCloud, but you can skip this step. After installation, the Apple ID isn't stored anywhere on the computer in a usable way. If the person you sell the computer to needs to do an Internet Restore, that's not their problem. They can pay for a licensed copy of Lion/ML/whatever, if they wish.

Also, Iljitsch is right in that if you downloaded an upgrade to OSX through a particular Apple ID, Internet Restore will use that upgrade instead of the OS that originally came with the computer.

Once a mac is upgraded can't you use the recovery partition to boot and nuke and reinstall without an apple id?

You can. All that needs to be done is to boot from the recovery partition and load Disk Utility. Erase the OS partition and then get out of Disk Utility. Then install a fresh install of the OS. When the computer boots up for the first time and starts asking for the language, shut it off and give it to whoever the new owner is. Then they can use their own Apple ID from that point on.

This is a non-issue. Once you have extracted Install.ESD from the 10.7/10.8 download, you install it on any number of Macs. There are many articles online that show how to do this. Burn Install.ESD onto a DVD and bundle it with the Mac when you sell it. That's what I would do.

Hrmm. I see a lot of "I think it's this way" and "I'm pretty sure it's that way," but very little that's definitive.

Other than DaGuy, who else has actually nuked and paved a 10.7/10.8 Mac without using their own Apple ID?

What about Lion Internet Restore?

I nuked and paved a 10.8 mac for sale. It requires an AppleID to recover, at least the easy way using the recovery partition. I'd just make sure the recipient of the computer knows they need to spend $20 on the App store to buy the OS. Otherwise they're hosed if they need to reinstall for whatever reason.

Hrmm. I see a lot of "I think it's this way" and "I'm pretty sure it's that way," but very little that's definitive.

Other than DaGuy, who else has actually nuked and paved a 10.7/10.8 Mac without using their own Apple ID?

What about Lion Internet Restore?

The license is pretty clear on this and is addressed under "Transfer" in section 3(a) and 3(b). According to 3(b) if you purchased the OS from the App Store you are prohibited from transferring the license to the new owner. This, of course, is the legal side.

Other than DaGuy, who else has actually nuked and paved a 10.7/10.8 Mac without using their own Apple ID?

I have never used any procedure other then nuke/pave via DVD/USB or NetInstall for any major OS X upgrade except maybe 10.1 . Recent ones included. I thought that was completely common knowledge honestly, people dug into the installer of 10.7 I think even before general release. There were guides for sticking it on a USB Stick or whatever day 1, and of course Apple continues to officially support use of SIU and NetBoot/NetInstall even though they've let themselves get lazy and buggy there.

I tried this last night and this morning, just for kicks, and I must be missing a key step.

I re-downloaded the ML installer last night, then opened the package and Restored the InstallerESD.dmg to a Flash drive. Per some instructions I read, I partitioned the flash drive using a GUID partition map, then created a new first partition formatted as HFS+, then did the Restore. The balance of the 32 GB Flash drive is formatted as MS-DOS (FAT), but I don't know if that matters or not.

If I boot from this 2006 MacBook (white)'s HDD I can choose the Flash drive as a bootable device, but it won't boot from it. I get the grey circle/slash icon.

If I just mount the volume and look at it, there's a "System" folder on there, but it doesn't have the System Folder icon with the "X". It's just a plain blue folder.

If I boot while holding down Option an orange USB drive icon shows up with the label "EFI boot", but if I select that one I get the same circle/slash icon.

Did I skip a step?

This evening I'll try a single GUID/HFS+ partition to see if that works any better.

I tried this last night and this morning, just for kicks, and I must be missing a key step.

I re-downloaded the ML installer last night,

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If I boot from this 2006 MacBook (white)'s HDD I can choose the Flash drive as a bootable device, but it won't boot from it.

Emphasis added. Official list of supported Macs that can run Mountain Lion:

iMac (Mid 2007 or newer)

MacBook (Late 2008 Aluminum, or Early 2009 or newer)

MacBook Pro (Mid/Late 2007 or newer)

MacBook Air (Late 2008 or newer)

Mac mini (Early 2009 or newer)

Mac Pro (Early 2008 or newer)

Xserve (Early 2009)

That'd be your problem. The 2006 MacBook doesn't even have a 64-bit CPU, it's completely impossible to natively run 10.8 (unlike say a Mac Pro 1,1/2,1, where with a bit of hacking around they can unofficially work).

It's possible, with enough work, to use Chameleon to take care of the EFI bit and get a 64-bit kernel to run, assuming a 64-bit processor. However, in practice that is limited by the availability of 64-bit drivers for key subsystems, most particularly graphics. With a Mac Pro 1,1 or 2,1 it's possible to upgrade the graphics card to something mildly newer that then does have 64-bit kexts available (like the HD5770), and in turn get 10.8 to run just fine (or 10.7 with a 64-bit kernel). Not an option for a Macbook though, so regrettably you're hosed there in that regard.

My question/point above about iLife doesn't seem to be answered or commented on in subsequent posts. If I buy a Mac now (with OS X Mountain Lion and iLife) and want to sell it after wiping the disks (to prevent leakage of data), I'd still have to backup the iLife apps before wiping the machine and then restore them after reinstalling OS X, right?

It's possible, with enough work, to use Chameleon to take care of the EFI bit and get a 64-bit kernel to run, assuming a 64-bit processor. However, in practice that is limited by the availability of 64-bit drivers for key subsystems, most particularly graphics. With a Mac Pro 1,1 or 2,1 it's possible to upgrade the graphics card to something mildly newer that then does have 64-bit kexts available (like the HD5770), and in turn get 10.8 to run just fine (or 10.7 with a 64-bit kernel). Not an option for a Macbook though, so regrettably you're hosed there in that regard.