Here's a lightened version. That is a Praetorian guard without any doubt, so clearly a shot of the guard fight with Rey force pushing something or someone.

Definitely not the same as the hand scene (Kylo's not in the throne room), though it could all be part of the same burning ship crashing (into Crait?) sequence (same goes for Finn vs. Phasma). Kylo looks like he's outside at night in the aftermath some fiery battle.

This was what I thought. She’s doing something that’s causing major damage, and Kylo steps up. You think he’s going to stop her (maybe), but instead he joins her and they permanently compromise whatever ship they are on.

@MyOnlyHope wrote:Here's a lightened version. That is a Praetorian guard without any doubt, so clearly a shot of the guard fight with Rey force pushing something or someone.

Definitely not the same as the hand scene (Kylo's not in the throne room), though it could all be part of the same burning ship crashing (into Crait?) sequence (same goes for Finn vs. Phasma). Kylo looks like he's outside at night in the aftermath some fiery battle.

I thought Kylo WAS in the throne room with Rey. There’s that shot from EW where he’s standing behind her? If the hand’s not from a vision, I would bet that it does happen there because of the embers...

I tend to think of it as one long sequence of events, the final act. I think it's more probable that it's all happening at once rather than the falling embers reappearing as a motif, it's a very specific setup. There is way too much we're missing, but based on the few images we have, I guess it goes roughly like this:

Rey and Kylo in the throne room. We don't know the context, how and why did they arrive there, but Rey's determined and confident expression makes me think it's a deliberate choice of hers. There is also a certain level of anticipation as if she is there to get answers.At some point Snoke tortures her, it is then perhaps that his agenda is revealed. We have two identical devices on either side of Snoke's throne, which could be designed with Rey and Kylo in mind. My current hypothesis is that Kylo witnesses this and we experience the whole thing from his perspective, feeling his rising determination as he makes the choice to help Rey, echoing to some extent the scene where Vader helps Luke in ROTJ.This most likely occurs sometime afterwards. We see age guard on the ground, which implies Rey and Kylo may have already fought them/are currently fighting them as a super powerful duo. This could be Rey trying to resists Snoke or her raw power acting out. In any case, it's a super intense moment.This has always seemed like a climactic emotional moment to me. I see it happening in the aftermath, closer to the end. Narrative-wise, it makes sense that Rey's reply will be different this time, especially now that they've fight together and she's realised there's good in Ben. It just doesn't make sense for her to turn him down again. However, because it's still episode 8 and not 9, I've had this vague suspicion ever since Adam's on where Kylo ends up by the end ("it depends on your definition of living") that Kylo might end up in a bad place physically by the end, e.g. being incapacitated in some way, and Rey will want to help him as he helped her before that. She might be willing to take his hand, but something (Snoke) could interrupt them just before she does. We'll see what will happen. Of course, Adam could be referring to Kylo's mental state.I presume the Finn/Phasma fight takes place around the same time/area. Perhaps the throne room is on Supremacy and it crashed on the planet at night so that's why it's dark outside. I don't know and I don't care about guessing the timeline correctly. What I do know is that act 3 is going to be awesome!

Last edited by MindAndMagic on Fri 24 Nov 2017, 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total

There are similar falling embers all over various different scenes. Finn vs Phasma, Phasma walking out into all that fire. All the embers in Snoke's throne do is lend credence to the theory that the guard fight and the Phasma duel take place on a heavily damaged, possibly on its way to Crait Supremacy.

Gotta say, I'm a big fan of the idea that Rey is actually the one who brings down the Supremacy in an outburst of uncontrollable raw power. Snoke is so interested in the raw power (and something "truly special," whatever that means). He wants her to fulfill her destiny. It's been suggested before that Snoke tortures Rey in order to compel her into releasing what's inside of her. Rey looks wild in that shot. It could create an incredibly powerful parallel with the temple destruction. I would love if Kylo were to be the one to help and calm her in a way that no one ever could for him...

If the hand scene is connected to this sequence, then it happens on Crait after the Supremacy crashes into the planet. I think it's pretty clear he's outside at night. Or maybe it's not connected at all and is part of a vision (foreshadowing for a later point in the film). I think there's too much fire in this movie to really come up with anything definitive based on a falling ember. Stuff like this is pretty much the reason I gave up on analyzing the timeline like two days after the trailer came out. It's a lot easier just to remain open minded and trust Rian's words.

@MyOnlyHope wrote:Gotta say, I'm a big fan of the idea that Rey is actually the one who brings down the Supremacy in an outburst of uncontrollable raw power. Snoke is so interested in the raw power (and something "truly special," whatever that means). He wants her to fulfill her destiny. It's been suggested before that Snoke tortures Rey in order to compel her into releasing what's inside of her. Rey looks wild in that shot. It could create an incredibly powerful parallel with the temple destruction. I would love if Kylo were to be the one to help and calm her in a way that no one ever could for him...

If the hand scene is connected to this sequence, then it happens on Crait after the Supremacy crashes into the planet. I think it's pretty clear he's outside at night. Or maybe it's not connected at all and is part of a vision (foreshadowing for a later point in the film). I think there's too much fire in this movie to really come up with anything definitive based on a falling ember. Stuff like this is pretty much the reason I gave up on analyzing the timeline like two days after the trailer came out. It's a lot easier just to remain open minded and trust Rian's words.

You are so right about the raw powah! We all think the "fulfill your destiny" is for Kylo, but that is not what the red and black Instagram ads indicate. For Kylo it is "let the past die," as he remembers his uber Kylo Ren self. For Rey it is "fulfill your destiny" as she turns more red.

Last edited by SoloSideCousin on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

You know what, I could actually see that happening. If Kylo and her make it out of this movie in one piece, she would be on very equal footing with him if she caused that much destruction accidentally.

Yep! And just like all the scenes of Chewie blowing people away with his bowcaster in TFA were to set up how badly it hurts Kylo (and how strong he is for still being able to fight afterwards), the sheer size and impressiveness of the Supremacy could be partially to emphasize how insane the "raw power" is when that power alone takes it down!

Agree with this idea When one pay attention to this shot, that shows how scary that raw power is. Ben litterally reduces the "academy" and his fellow Jedi to ashesLuke is surely lucky to be alive after what happened. Kylo and Rey are some SW version of Kali and Shiva. That is also very reminiscent of the Rainmaker's power of destruction

I have a head scenario and a heart ... outline, I guess ... the head one is right along these lines and each bit that comes out fits pretty well into it. I think it's the middle of the film, second act, or so.

This is my head scenario, based on what we have:

Throne room, Rey torture, Kylo response, they fight the guards. Snoke dies or flees. Kylo helps Rey and Finn off the ship, but stays. Supremacy goes down. Kylo lives. Rises to the head of the first order. Battle of Crait. Eventually, First Order turns tide. Kylo into the cavern with the drill. At some point Rey and Kylo meet again and separate. FO closes the trap. Resistance leadership escapes on MF with Rey aboard. They burst out of the mine. Super shippy telepathic callback to ESB to end the movie. Episode IX starts with mother vs. son, with girlfriend/surrogate daughter in the middle. Or did start that way.

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I thought Kylo WAS in the throne room with Rey. There’s that shot from EW where he’s standing behind her? If the hand’s not from a vision, I would bet that it does happen there because of the embers...

Why wouldn't he be in the throne room fighting the guards? We saw what appeared to be the practice in the BTS reel. We've been theorizing a Reylo teamup against the guards for months.

Count me in as loving the idea that Rey's raw power is what leads to some kind of destruction of the Supremacy. However, aren't Finn and Rose supposedly there undercover to damage/blow it up? I don't know if that's been said or if I just assumed it... I think that actually sounds rather dull and too much like Han and Finn's mission at SKB, but what other reason would Finn and Rose be there? I guess it still doesn't mean Rey doesn't have a show of raw power.

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I thought Kylo WAS in the throne room with Rey. There’s that shot from EW where he’s standing behind her? If the hand’s not from a vision, I would bet that it does happen there because of the embers...

Why wouldn't he be in the throne room fighting the guards? We saw what appeared to be the practice in the BTS reel. We've been theorizing a Reylo teamup against the guards for months.

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I thought Kylo WAS in the throne room with Rey. There’s that shot from EW where he’s standing behind her? If the hand’s not from a vision, I would bet that it does happen there because of the embers...

Why wouldn't he be in the throne room fighting the guards? We saw what appeared to be the practice in the BTS reel. We've been theorizing a Reylo teamup against the guards for months.

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I thought Kylo WAS in the throne room with Rey. There’s that shot from EW where he’s standing behind her? If the hand’s not from a vision, I would bet that it does happen there because of the embers...

Why wouldn't he be in the throne room fighting the guards? We saw what appeared to be the practice in the BTS reel. We've been theorizing a Reylo teamup against the guards for months.