SADDAM VERDICT

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GCM

All Iraqui leave has been cancelled in anticipation of the trail verdict. Surely executing him isn't going to solve any of Iraq's problems and since the whole trial is a put up job to silence an American ally and hide the US part in his and many other repressive regimes worldwide it may just make things worse.

Nice though it is (well a bit) to think of him swinging from a lampost to scapegoat him in this way will do absolutely nothing to improve the situation in Iraq and will probably lead to greater instability. Who are we kidding after all - Iraq is much more of a security threat now both to the international system as well as to Iraquis internally and if the puppet regime hangs him it is just a pathetic attempt to divert attention from the western backed farce of the trial.

If Hussein is executed, stand by for another wave of savagery from the Sunnis. Don't forget - they form the rump of the deposed parties which made up the Ba'athists. Given the cross-border level of support for the Shias, I reckon we will see thousands killed in the first three months, and onther step toward civil war

War Hero

Whatever happens to Saddam Iraq is headed for a civil war.
The sooner our troops are withdrawn the better. It seems that we are not welcome there. As for the rest of the Muslim world, most of them wanted to see Saddam deposed but were too frightened to do anything about it.
Lets get our guys/girls out of the place and let battle begin.

War Hero

Levers Mate, the evidence for the heightened violence? You'll have to take my word on it as thats what we're being briefed and it's already apparent.

Will it settle down eventually? Almost certainly but probably to the level that is normal for this god forsaken piece of dirt. It will take years and considerably more resources to push the level back even further.

Regarding you r last point? Yes agreed, but if he isn't executed the other side will be just as unhappy and will probably voice their anger in the same manner. So it is a case of dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. Great eh?

Lantern Swinger

Levers Mate, the evidence for the heightened violence? You'll have to take my word on it as thats what we're being briefed and it's already apparent.

Will it settle down eventually? Almost certainly but probably to the level that is normal for this god forsaken piece of dirt. It will take years and considerably more resources to push the level back even further.

Regarding you r last point? Yes agreed, but if he isn't executed the other side will be just as unhappy and will probably voice their anger in the same manner. So it is a case of dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. Great eh?

War Hero

As I see it, any Iraqi government will be seen as a US "puppet"; an inevitable result of the unplanned FU the 2 grinning idiots started.

As to whether the man should be executed, that's a hard one. He certainly deserves a slow and lingering death but there are other factors to consider. This isn't a simple re-run of Nuremburg as that option ran out after GRANBY. His offences were against the Iraqi people so they must be given a clear and significant say in it. There must not, under any circumstances, be the slightest suspicion that it is an American decision. This is where Teflon Tony could do something useful, for once, and make the European (slight pause while I spit) position on execution known. The civilised generosity of victory. Show the World that civilised and enlightened nations do not demand death penalties. That may just blow the average Muslim's swede!

For my part, let him live the solitary life we bestowed upon R Hess. Deny him his place in history as a martyr. If there were to be hostage taking and blackmail for his release, we would have already seen it. Let the bas*ard rot and die of old age, with as many free cigarettes as he can smoke.

War Hero

Passed-over_Loggie wrote: For my part, let him live the solitary life we bestowed upon R Hess. Deny him his place in history as a martyr. If there were to be hostage taking and blackmail for his release, we would have already seen it. Let the bas*ard rot and die of old age, with as many free cigarettes as he can smoke.

I understand your sentiment and am almost inclined to agree to a certain degree, but keeping him around would only give continued hope to his supporters and encourage them to carry on indefinitely whilst he still breathes. Better to end it now and suffer the consequences in the short-term to [hopefully] avoid dragging this thing out for years.

GCM

Lantern Swinger

I think it's a tragedy that a country we are meant to have 'liberated' is showing just how civilised it is by imposing capital punishment.

I don't for one second condone any of the actions of Saddam Hussein and his regime, but I just can't agree with us, or a government supported by us, deciding that killing someone is acceptible, regardless of their crimes.

I'm sure my view seems daft, not least because of the skale of killing on both sides during the conflict (formal and informal), but I really can't find it in myself to ever believe that killing someone is an acceptable legal punishment.

We condemn the death penalty elsewhere. Why should we celebrate this one?

War Hero

I think it's a tragedy that a country we are meant to have 'liberated' is showing just how civilised it is by imposing capital punishment.

I don't for one second condone any of the actions of Saddam Hussein and his regime, but I just can't agree with us, or a government supported by us, deciding that killing someone is acceptible, regardless of their crimes.

I'm sure my view seems daft, not least because of the skale of killing on both sides during the conflict (formal and informal), but I really can't find it in myself to ever believe that killing someone is an acceptable legal punishment.

We condemn the death penalty elsewhere. Why should we celebrate this one?

The death penalty is only condemned by the politicians of Great Britain. Given a referendum it is highly probable that the majority or the countries population would be in favour of reinstating the death penalty in the UK.
For some crimes there can only be one punishment. Saddaam has commited these crimes many times over.
I think most people on this forum are aware of my thoughts on capital punishment.

Midshipman

He won't be martyd the majority of Iraqis hate him! This is a step forward, draws a line under their past and shows that the Iraqis are srating to look after themselves - an iraqi trial under iraqi law.

and as was said, if there was a vote im pretty sure more people would be in favour of the death penalty in this country. some people will always be evil, why should my taxes pay for them to live a cushy life in prison and get released after 10 years maybe?

MIA

Hang on, Saddam would see death as some kind of victory, wouldnâ€™t he? So wouldnâ€™t it be better to jail him in some kind of confined cell for the rest of his life? Surely that would be more of a torture that a quick get out clause of death by hanging?

However, why did they not do this 15 odd years ago, would have saved the world a lot of trouble back then!

Lantern Swinger

IMHO, knowing a bit about Arabs and how they think, I don't think there's much choice other than to execute him. If he is not seen to be executed, then the Iraqi people (Kurd and Shia admittedly) will not see justice to have been done, and they will feel that they have been cheated of an endstate they deserve to see.
Where does this leave the Sunni? Well, P1ssed off I agree, but I concur with SF who said earlier in this thread, that there will most probably be a short, sharp escalation of violence, which is preferable to having him alive to be used as a bargaining chip. I agree that he would suffer more by being allowed to rot in prison for the rest of his days, but the Arab street, and the Iraqi street in particular, just won't see it like that. The death penalty is distasteful to many westerners but we have appreciate that other cultures don't look upon it with the distaste that we do.
As an aside, I find it only right and proper that he be hung instead of shot by firing squad. Death by Firing Squad is a soldiers punishment, seen as a semi-honourable death by Arabs. Although Saddam bestowed the rank of Field Marshall upon himself, the Iraqi judge, by sentencing him to hang, is also telling him that he's considered a civilian and a criminal, which is quite right as the Rustamiya military academy in Baghdad have no records of him ever having attended.
There's my 2 pence.

Midshipman

I agree with you brains tougher sentancing etc is the way forwards but I doubt we will see that for a long time.

I still think though, for some crimes like cold blooded murder and war crimes, death penalty is a better option. An extreme example but if we ever caught bin laden, could he be rehabilitated, i don't think so.