tl: issue is more about server defaults; less clear what you should do when you do not get a dnt signal. not valuable to us to know when user has not made a choice. what server should do with no signal is up to the server.

18:09:25 [Zakim]

-npdoty

18:09:26 [dwainberg]

tl: user agents should not say things the user hasn't told them to say

18:09:32 [aleecia]

ack Frankie

18:09:35 [efelten]

-q

18:09:51 [Zakim]

-[IPcaller.a]

18:09:53 [pde]

q+

18:10:01 [pde]

Zakim, unmute me

18:10:01 [Zakim]

pde should no longer be muted

18:10:02 [aleecia]

ack pde

18:10:31 [WileyS]

+q

18:10:36 [dwainberg]

pde: if there was an indication that browsers would turn it on by default we might have to discuss it, but otherwise not an issue

18:10:40 [tl]

correction: user agents should not say things on behalf of the user which do not represent what the agent thinks the user wants

18:10:42 [Frankie_]

Frankie_ has joined #dnt

18:10:51 [aleecia]

ack WileyS

18:12:16 [dwainberg]

WileyS: there probably will be use cases in the real world where dnt is changed w/out user's action. so, in employer case, how will servers deal? race conditions in that case when sites ask for permission?

18:13:03 [jmayer]

+q

18:13:14 [Zakim]

+ +49.175.181.aayy

18:13:17 [pde]

aleecia, perhaps a NN bill passed in the Netherlands?

18:14:12 [aleecia]

summary of options: (1) we say nothing, (2) agents SHOULD not speak for users who have not had a choice, (3) agents MUST not speak for users who have not made a choice

18:14:12 [dwainberg]

jmayer: softer touch approaches: what happens if on install of browser a pref dialog pops up asking if user wants it on? a lot of room for design in that space, so if the principle

18:14:34 [dwainberg]

... is that we don't want a world where dnt enabled by default a rule about what a browser can do is going to get us there.

18:14:45 [Frankie]

zakim, +49.175.181.aay its me

18:14:45 [Zakim]

I don't understand '+49.175.181.aay its me', Frankie

18:15:03 [Frankie]

+49.175.181.aay is me', Frankie

18:15:08 [efelten]

Zakim, aayy is Frankie

18:15:08 [Zakim]

+Frankie; got it

18:15:16 [dwainberg]

aleecia: we have 15 mins left, and probably will not come to a decision. how do we move this forward?

18:15:36 [Frankie]

+q

18:15:40 [jmayer]

-q

18:15:44 [aleecia]

q?

18:15:51 [aleecia]

ack Frankie

18:16:26 [aleecia]

zakim who is speaking?

18:16:29 [karl]

an echo feature would send back to the user the DNT header seen by the server, so the user (browser) would know if the header has been modified along the way