Mad Scientist - I do not totally disagree with your statement. I think people should continue to do what they feel is right, and if that includes following medical recommendations, I won't argue that.

My stance on the issue comes from a completely emotional place. I can't think of it on a scientific level because I feel I was effected by it personally.

I just believe that I should have a choice.

Most diseases or conditions can be traced to a cause, a genetic thing, a virus, a something. They can't convince me that autism is not vaccine related until they figure out where it comes from.

Cancer was on the rise since Polio vaccinations began. What about Alzheimers? There's no way to know if we're causing these things ourselves.

I don't have the right answer. I really don't. I just fully believe that my child was affected negatively from her vaccinations. I was never against them before, and I fully blame myself for going along with something that could have seriously debilitated her. I am scared at times of my choice to not vaccinate, but I'm more scared of the alternative.

Originally Posted by iroc

People have always gotten cancer and alzheimers. History is full of accounts of cancer-related illness and death and alzheimers-related dementia, but they didn't know it was cancer/alzheimers at the time. The reason we see more of it today is probably because people live longer. Cancer/alzheimers tend to be old-person-diseases, so when you have more old people...you have more cancer/alzheimers.

My guess is people have always had autism as well. I know that while I was growing up, I attended school with several children who were mainstreamed, but who probably should have been in special schools, because they definitely would be diagnosed with autism today. I think autism is just a variation of normal and there probably isn't one specific cause for it.

Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

I agree. I believe the preservatives in question as far as autism goes have been removed (at least from the MMR) and autism is still on the rise. However, I do believe parents should have a choice whether to vaccinate or not, but if they choose not to, their children should not be allowed to attend the public school system. Homeschooling is an option. I read a stat (don't know if its true or not) that 10% of public school kids are not immunized. They claim conscientious objection or allergies or something. The conscientious objection revolves around the fetal tissue used to develop the vaccines. But thats a whole separate discussion.

The religious exemption is because of the belief that blood is sacred and should not be contaminated.

They are allowed in public schools, but are required to remove their children if there is a known outbreak. Which is fine with me.

Besides, you can't keep them out of every public situation. And if you choose to vaccinate, what does it matter? Your child would be protected.

Originally Posted by iroc

Not necessarily. I'm going on the information I was given by my pediatrician that the vaccines only work if everybody uses them. They are not 100% effective.

Originally Posted by poisonivy

Those are the kinds of comments I question. That sounds like such a scare tactic.

And I actually read an article - in a newspaper even - about how they did some study that they found vaccines would be just as effective if they randomly selected people to vax a certain percentage of the public. Instead of every person.

Something about social groups. I'm not trying to sell you this, because I obviously don't have a lot of info on it. Just making it part of the conversation.

Anyway, the statement that "everyone" in the world needs to be vaccinated in order for it to work doesn't sound a little fishy to you? I mean, I can see how it would be 'better' or help to eradicate the disease, but for it to even work?

And RCW posted about her 2 vaccinated kids getting whooping cough. Even if they got it from kids who weren't vaxed, they were, so whats the point?

My friends child got chicken pox a few weeks after her vax. The doctor used the excuse that she must've been already been exposed. I think thats crap. All the people who have gotten the flu, or chicken pox after their vax were all coincidentally exposed before? Come on. And these are the obvious ones. What else do they sell us?

I'm not saying I don't believe in vax, or that they don't work - I'm just tired of the blanket b.s. they use to scare people. It's insulting.

I'm not saying I don't believe in vax, or that they don't work - I'm just tired of the blanket b.s. they use to scare people. It's insulting.

Originally Posted by iroc

I'm delaying my son's vaccinations, I will probably get some or most of them, but my BIL had a pretty major reaction to the DTAP when he was young, so I figure delaying that one until he's old enough to be able to tell me something is wrong is a good idea. MMR I may not do at all because none of those diseases are particularly dangerous as long as they are treated properly if the child DOES get sick, and I strongly object to some of the ingredients used in the vaccine. Polio I will probably avoid since there has not been a natural case of Polio in the US in decades. I will not vaccinate for Chicken pox, and will let DS decide for himself when he is older on things like Hep B or other STD type vaccines.

I would not call myself a conspiracy theorist, but I DO want to see some valid testing of these vaccines. Right now all of the testing that has been done is sponsored by the vaccine companies (who obviously stand to lose a LOT of money if vaccines are proven unsafe), and they do not test using a control group, they test against OTHER vaccines. To me, that makes the entire study faulty, since they do not have a group with NO vaccines to compare to. There have been vaccinations recalled for various reasons in the past, and in fact one type of vaccine used in the 60s that contained aborted human fetal tissue WAS linked to a higher rate of Autism, even according to the CDC.

I agree that the OP's friend is misinformed about the potential risks, but her decision is ultimately one that a lot of well educated people make as well.

I'm not saying I don't believe in vax, or that they don't work - I'm just tired of the blanket b.s. they use to scare people. It's insulting.

Originally Posted by iroc

I'm delaying my son's vaccinations, I will probably get some or most of them, but my BIL had a pretty major reaction to the DTAP when he was young, so I figure delaying that one until he's old enough to be able to tell me something is wrong is a good idea. MMR I may not do at all because none of those diseases are particularly dangerous as long as they are treated properly if the child DOES get sick, and I strongly object to some of the ingredients used in the vaccine. Polio I will probably avoid since there has not been a natural case of Polio in the US in decades. I will not vaccinate for Chicken pox, and will let DS decide for himself when he is older on things like Hep B or other STD type vaccines.

I would not call myself a conspiracy theorist, but I DO want to see some valid testing of these vaccines. Right now all of the testing that has been done is sponsored by the vaccine companies (who obviously stand to lose a LOT of money if vaccines are proven unsafe), and they do not test using a control group, they test against OTHER vaccines. To me, that makes the entire study faulty, since they do not have a group with NO vaccines to compare to. There have been vaccinations recalled for various reasons in the past, and in fact one type of vaccine used in the 60s that contained aborted human fetal tissue WAS linked to a higher rate of Autism, even according to the CDC.

I agree that the OP's friend is misinformed about the potential risks, but her decision is ultimately one that a lot of well educated people make as well.

Originally Posted by OperaDiva

This is where hubby and I are with our kids too. I wish there were more options in how to administer the vaccines such as seperating them out instead of bunching them together.

We are using an alternate schedule...pretty much my schedule. Chas is caught up by age 3 except for chicken pox. Addison is behind but she will eventually have everything. Neither of my kids get shots if they are sick, been sick recently or seem to be getting sick. No more than 2 shots at a time. MMR was not given until 3 years of age. ...and so on.

I do believe we vaccinate our children way too young and with way too much. I do believe we need more options to spread out the vaccines, alternate how we give vaccines...one size for all just doesn't seem right, etc. Hopefully when my kids are parents they will have more options.

Our ped is a self-proclaimed wuss who doesn't like to stick kids too much. So she has her own schedule. She gives the important ones that can't wait. Then gives a schedule of the shots, and asks if you want them now, later or to split. She usually recommends splitting. She doesn't like to give more than 2, 3 max. If they need a flu shot as well, she recommends waiting a week or 2. She also won't give shots if they're sick. She'll let you do a walk in when they're feeling better. Her partner is an allergist, so they're used to quick walk-ins.

I'm just helping out the conspiratist theories with this story, but....

We had a family friend who had a baby boy. Up until he was 2 he was very vocal, very happy, talked all the time, wanted nothing more than to play with you. He was the BEST baby. He went in for his 2 year checkups, got the standard vaccines, and his disposition had changed within a few weeks. He is now a non-speaking, extremely autistic child.

Do I know that the vaccines caused it? No. But I do know that his personality did a 180 right after he recieved the vaccines.

Rock Chalk Baby!! If you aren't from Kansas, you just won't understand!
Dame Kenz Matilda Jayhawk-Rocksalt, heir to the family diamonds.

I'm just helping out the conspiratist theories with this story, but....

We had a family friend who had a baby boy. Up until he was 2 he was very vocal, very happy, talked all the time, wanted nothing more than to play with you. He was the BEST baby. He went in for his 2 year checkups, got the standard vaccines, and his disposition had changed within a few weeks. He is now a non-speaking, extremely autistic child.

Do I know that the vaccines caused it? No. But I do know that his personality did a 180 right after he recieved the vaccines.

Originally Posted by kenzie!

How sad for that family! I know a lady whose baby died of SIDS the night he got his 2 month vaccinations.

I'm just helping out the conspiratist theories with this story, but....

We had a family friend who had a baby boy. Up until he was 2 he was very vocal, very happy, talked all the time, wanted nothing more than to play with you. He was the BEST baby. He went in for his 2 year checkups, got the standard vaccines, and his disposition had changed within a few weeks. He is now a non-speaking, extremely autistic child.

Do I know that the vaccines caused it? No. But I do know that his personality did a 180 right after he recieved the vaccines.

Originally Posted by kenzie!

How sad for that family! I know a lady whose baby died of SIDS the night he got his 2 month vaccinations.

Originally Posted by OperaDiva

Could vaccination caused these issues..yes, but I also believe that when something happens to a child, a parent has to find a reason behind the issue to come to peace with all that is happening around them. SIDS happens in unvaxed children, as does Autism.

Could vaccination caused these issues..yes, but I also believe that when something happens to a child, a parent has to find a reason behind the issue to come to peace with all that is happening around them. SIDS happens in unvaxed children, as does Autism.

Originally Posted by deezee02

I don't disagree. The problem comes when the pro-vax companies deny that it's even possible that there was a link between vax and SIDS or Autism, even if there are cases that are too closely linked to be coincidence.

Could vaccination caused these issues..yes, but I also believe that when something happens to a child, a parent has to find a reason behind the issue to come to peace with all that is happening around them. SIDS happens in unvaxed children, as does Autism.

Originally Posted by deezee02

I don't disagree. The problem comes when the pro-vax companies deny that it's even possible that there was a link between vax and SIDS or Autism, even if there are cases that are too closely linked to be coincidence.

Originally Posted by OperaDiva

I agree completely.

Yes, things like SIDS, Autism, etc, etc, these things were around before vaccines. But in the cases of autism, the numbers have grown significantly. If you look at charts of studies they have done, the autism numbers have increased incredibly during the same time they increased the vaccine schedule in the early 90's.

There are something like 160 children diagnosed with autism A DAY. While there may have been these cases around forever, there hasn't been to this extent. And I can't accept that it's because we have a better diagnosis now.

The fact that they refuse to listen, and refuse to do something about it is just so disrespectful to the parents and the children who are affected.

Could vaccination caused these issues..yes, but I also believe that when something happens to a child, a parent has to find a reason behind the issue to come to peace with all that is happening around them. SIDS happens in unvaxed children, as does Autism.

Originally Posted by deezee02

I don't disagree. The problem comes when the pro-vax companies deny that it's even possible that there was a link between vax and SIDS or Autism, even if there are cases that are too closely linked to be coincidence.

Originally Posted by OperaDiva

I agree completely.

Yes, things like SIDS, Autism, etc, etc, these things were around before vaccines. But in the cases of autism, the numbers have grown significantly. If you look at charts of studies they have done, the autism numbers have increased incredibly during the same time they increased the vaccine schedule in the early 90's.

There are something like 160 children diagnosed with autism A DAY. While there may have been these cases around forever, there hasn't been to this extent. And I can't accept that it's because we have a better diagnosis now.

The fact that they refuse to listen, and refuse to do something about it is just so disrespectful to the parents and the children who are affected.

Our ped is a self-proclaimed wuss who doesn't like to stick kids too much. So she has her own schedule. She gives the important ones that can't wait. Then gives a schedule of the shots, and asks if you want them now, later or to split. She usually recommends splitting. She doesn't like to give more than 2, 3 max. If they need a flu shot as well, she recommends waiting a week or 2. She also won't give shots if they're sick. She'll let you do a walk in when they're feeling better. Her partner is an allergist, so they're used to quick walk-ins.

Originally Posted by cympreni

they dont make the split ones anymore. they found it "unnecessary", thus making it impossible for those of us who would actually be comfortable giving selected split vaccines.

That's not what I meant, sorry. She breaks up the number of shots so they don't get more than 2 or 3 at a time. If the schedule calls for 3 shots this visit, and 1 at the next, then she'll give 2 now and save the 3rd for next time.

i see what you mean. However, companies are making 1 shot to have 5-6 vaccinations in it. THATS what i have a problem with (aside from the preservatives im allergic to) - in natural circumstances, no child would be fighting off measles, mumps, rubella and chickenpox all at the same time, and yet, thats what we expect their little systems to do.

My kids were born in the 70's and 80's. The DPT shot was suspected of causing death in children. I didn't want to take the risk. Also pertussis (whooping cough) isn't considered dangerous in children past age two, so once my children passed that age, I didn't worry much about it. They were immunized for tetanus however since we lived in a rural area and they were exposed regularly to the danger.

When my girls reached the age of menstuation, I had a Rubella titer test done to make sure they had adequate immunity since rubella can cause horrendous problems during pregnancy. Both daughters had sufficient rubella antibodies even though they hadn't had the measles or been immunized.

All my kids had chicken pox ... at the same time. But there wasn't a vaccine for that then.

It worked out well for me. My five children were extremely healthy and still are, and their children are too. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.