Opinions Obliterated?

Okay, I'm not trying to start anything here, seriously, but if this thread ends up doing otherwise, I'll take responsibility for my actions.

Anyway, this seems to have been an issue here for at least a couple of years or so, but it seems like there's no room for a difference of opinion here on MC. I'm not just speaking for myself, I'm also vouching for a few others... for example, before The Muppets came to fruition, I did cast my doubts about it actually happening, and I based my opinion of Disney's handling of the Muppet franchise, because they have admittedly not utilized the Muppets to the best of their advantage, and they have shelved a number of projects, so I took a "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude towards the movie, and was happy to be proven wrong, I really was.

Now, we have speculation of follow-up movie/possibly a sequel so soon after the previous movie... while I still remain a small amount of skepticism, I'm more open-minded about this possibly happening since Disney proved themselves to us last time; however, I notice this time a few others are casting their doubts about this happening because it does seem so soon after the movie we just got, as well as Jason Segel's supposed lack of involvement, and confusion as to whether this is a sequel in the sense that does it continue the plot from the first one, or will it have an entirely different plot, or what?

Now here's what the problem is, and I mentioned this in another thread: it's like no other opinions are welcome or wanted on here at MC. If ANYONE here, whether it's myself, or others, cast doubts about something happening, or takes that seeing is believing POV, the rest of the community gets up in arms and whines and complains about these people being "negative", "pessimistic", and basically act like their menaces to the forum. Everytime. Everybody just HAS to be cock-eyed (NOT the way I want to phrase it, but it's the only phrase coming to my mind) and sugary happy-pappy about every news regarding Muppet projects that comes up, otherwise, everyone is like "GARRGHH!! QUIT BRINGING EVERYBODY DOWN WITH YOUR DOOM-AND-GLOOM! YOU'RE RUINING THIS ENTIRE COMMUNITY WITH YOUR NEGATIVE PESSIMISM!" And like I said, it's happening again, this time it's not just me, others are expressing their disbelief and skepticism regarding a sequel to The Muppets, and now we have a thread like this...

Again, it's like a difference of opinion around here is not welcome here... I mean, I held my tongue (rather my fingers) when heralde was being rather pessimistic when Obama supporters celebrated his presidency, but then again, that doesn't really apply to the world of Muppets. I just want to know if we could at least make some allowances for a difference of opinions on this forum? I know we should keep a community of peace and harmony in the community, like the kind of community Jim would want, but I mean really, is everybody getting their underwear in a knot over a small number of people having skepticism really necessary?

For myself as an example I do so hope the last two seasons of The Muppet Show will eventually be released but it's been so long and no clear cut set release date has been made that I half suspect the project has been canceled.

Okay I agree that there could be further complications with the music rights again but why delay because of that? Sure I'd much rather have a complete set but even if it's slightly butchered like Season One was I'll be able to live with that. Even if it really is true that they can't get authorization for the Star wars episode then just omit it. I know that many of us would be disappointed to lose an entire episode but surely a set with anything missing is better than nothing at all? My point is that Disney would do us more justice in the end by giving us the very best that they are able to. It's not their fault if they can't deliver a perfect collection but we've been promised Season Four for a few years and it is just wrong to keep us waiting.

Come on Disney. Please give us our Muppet Show DVDs. The waiting is agony.

Everybody just HAS to be cock-eyed (NOT the way I want to phrase it, but it's the only phrase coming to my mind) and sugary happy-pappy about every news regarding Muppet projects that comes up, otherwise, everyone is like "GARRGHH!! QUIT BRINGING EVERYBODY DOWN WITH YOUR DOOM-AND-GLOOM! YOU'RE RUINING THIS ENTIRE COMMUNITY WITH YOUR NEGATIVE PESSIMISM!" And like I said, it's happening again, this time it's not just me, others are expressing their disbelief and skepticism regarding a sequel to The Muppets, and now we have a thread like this...

It does feel like battle lines are being drawn out of nowhere and it's absolutely unnecessary and quite perplexing. Suddenly having different opinions is what ruins a forum community? Having a debate with different points of view suddenly equals not celebrating? It's an overreaction that's getting out of hand. If people don't like what others say, there is no need to read a post or respond to it. Just move on.

I did cast my doubts about it actually happening, and I based my opinion of Disney's handling of the Muppet franchise, because they have admittedly not utilized the Muppets to the best of their advantage, and they have shelved a number of projects, so I took a "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude towards the movie, and was happy to be proven wrong, I really was.

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Exactly. You had an opinion, in this particular case you were proven wrong and that was great. I felt the same way. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact I would argue I enjoyed the movie more because I'd been so concerned about it. If I had too high expectations, I might have been let down. But that didn't happen.

If ANYONE here, whether it's myself, or others, cast doubts about something happening, or takes that seeing is believing POV, the rest of the community gets up in arms and whines and complains about these people being "negative", "pessimistic", and basically act like their menaces to the forum.

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It does feel like a McCarthy vibe occasionally, heh. It's one thing to say "don't be so negative." It's another to say "you're a menace because you don't fall in line with the group." Again, major overreactions going on against members who are actually perfectly happy Muppet fans but are being portrayed as something else.

I know we should keep a community of peace and harmony in the community, like the kind of community Jim would want, but I mean really, is everybody getting their underwear in a knot over a small number of people having skepticism really necessary?

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Bottom line, having a community of peace and harmony doesnot mean we all must say "Yay!" at the same time or else we're not all really fans. It means we say what we want to (civilly), respect different opinions and move on.

Exactly. You had an opinion, in this particular case you were proven wrong and that was great. I felt the same way. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact I would argue I enjoyed the movie more because I'd been so concerned about it. If I had too high expectations, I might have been let down. But that didn't happen.

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Yes, I felt the exact same way... and again, I was apprehensive about the movie, because Jason Segel's humor has a tendancy to be filthy, and with him involved with this movie, I wasn't sure what to expect, but not only to I leave the theater with a sigh of relief, I left with a huge smile on my face, because it turns out Jason Segel did do the Muppets some pretty good justice, and the movie turned out to be a lot better than I thought it would be, so again, I was proven wrong on a few different levels, but I was actually happy to be proven wrong.

It does feel like a McCarthy vibe occasionally, heh. It's one thing to say "don't be so negative." It's another to say "you're a menace because you don't fall in line with the group." Again, major overreactions going on against members who are actually perfectly happy Muppet fans but are being portrayed as something else.

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That's exactly my point: plus, as I've said many times before, in some cases, it's not so much pessimism or negatitive, it's trying to be realistic, but I do give some people the benefit of the doubt, considering it's not always easy to interpret a person's exact feelings through text, but still, it's a bit un-necessary for someone to add their opinion to a discussion along the lines of "I'm not sure this will really happen", or "I'll believe it when I see it", or "This has to be a rumor," to be met with a bunch of "YOU'RE SUCH A PESSIMIST!!! STOP RUINING MUPPET CENTRAL WITH YOUR NEGATIVITY!!!"

it's a bit un-necessary for someone to add their opinion to a discussion along the lines of "I'm not sure this will really happen", or "I'll believe it when I see it", or "This has to be a rumor," to be met with a bunch of "YOU'RE SUCH A PESSIMIST!!! STOP RUINING MUPPET CENTRAL WITH YOUR NEGATIVITY!!!"

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It is unnecessary and it's getting a bit cruel, though I'm sure unintentionally so. Like school yard politics.

I don't recall you Snowth ever telling someone "Stop being optimistic!" You just said what you personally felt about a project and that was that. Well it should go both ways shouldn't it?

I left with a huge smile on my face, because it turns out Jason Segel did do the Muppets some pretty good justice, and the movie turned out to be a lot better than I thought it would be, so again, I was proven wrong on a few different levels, but I was actually happy to be proven wrong.

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Exactly, I wish more people could understand that feeling, instead of just labeling someone a downer. It can be a wonderful feeling to be proven wrong; I actually enjoy it (depending on the situation of course, hehe).

I didn't make it, but I'm guessing the no pessimism thread started less as a jab at the skeptics and more as a reaction to the pages and pages of arguments that are infesting a whole bunch of threads right now. It gets a little irksome to get an alert about somebody replying to a thread about, say, the Oscars, and you think 'hey, maybe somebody has some new insight or a video or article or something interesting.' And you click on it and are treated to two and half pages of arguing about something that doesn't even have anything to do with the Oscars anymore. Generally, yeah, it starts with somebody overreacting to somebody else's "negative" opinion. But both sides tend to display a reluctance or downright refusal to let the other side get the last word in. Which is understandable; it's kind of the nature of the internet. It's just that there's a LOT of it going on right now.

But I wouldn't worry. No need to do anything drastic. These things ebb and flow. People will get bored with sniping at each other, or else something major will happen that will get all of our attention. The arguing will die down, and it'll be fine and laid back and mellow and profitable. Well, maybe not profitable.

I don't recall you Snowth ever telling someone "Stop being optimistic!" You just said what you personally felt about a project and that was that. Well it should go both ways shouldn't it?

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No, there's nothing wrong with being optimistic. It's a good way to be, it's healthy. I personally would LOVE to be what I call a "perma-optimist", and being able to see the bright side and silver lining of everything, but my problem is I didn't grow up with a normal childhood, and I don't live a normal life to this day, and as such, it's difficult for me to be optimistic about anything. That's not to say I'm pessimistic about everything either, it's just I prefer to have this kind of outlook on life: I'd rather not look forward to something and be pleasantly surprised, as opposed to get my hopes over something and be disappointed.

Perhaps I may be just a little TOO opininated, I do feel the need to speak my mind when I feel it really counts, but again, like I said, it's not just me, I see other people are now coming forward, speaking their minds as well, sharing their different opinions, only to be basically almost scolded like a little kid who doesn't do what the superiors want him to.
It's almost kind of like the way Caroll Spinney said Jon Stone was with him: on the set, they did work well, and were very professional with each other, but when the cameras weren't rolling, Jon basically treated Caroll like crap for reasons even Caroll never figured out.

But I wouldn't worry. No need to do anything drastic. These things ebb and flow. People will get bored with sniping at each other, or else something major will happen that will get us all of our attention.

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Agreed. And when it does get all of our attention, we will all respond in our own individual ways. Whether or not they fit with others.

I'd rather not look forward to something and be pleasantly surprised, as opposed to get my hopes over something and be disappointed.

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And I would argue that's not even being all that pessimistic. That's living in the real world.

I see other people are now coming forward, speaking their minds as well, sharing their different opinions, only to be basically almost scolded like a little kid who doesn't do what the superiors want him to.

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There does come a point where we all just have to say "I don't like what they're saying, but they have every right to say it."

And again, that's basically how I've been trying to explain my opinions of past, and even THAT has ended up as cause for debate.

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Again, just way too much overreaction going on. And probably from us as well. If someone starts scolding us (and that is what it feels like sometimes, heh), we too can just move on and go to a different thread instead of helping an argument to continue. So someone says "you're being too negative." Who cares? Let them think that. We know what we really feel. And eventually someone else will probably just end up posting and moving the thread in a new direction anyway. Argument averted.

I see what you're getting at. But, while it is easy to be skeptical about another Muppet movie being made, think of it this way. This last movie was made for 45 million... that's chump change, and it made a modest 88 mil at the domestic box office. While it isn't a huge smash hit, it wasn't a budget busting bomb either. If you were Disney, would you rather make a <$50 million that gets its budget back and a little more or a >$100 million movie that completely flops and nets a huge loss for them.

If another Muppet movie is made and it costs, let's say, anywhere from 50-60 mil to make and it only gets like 41 mil at the box office, it's a small loss of around 10-20 mil, which they can easily make back with the merchandising alone of a sub standard performing Pixar film. But another Mars needs Moms or G-Force, they'd be reeling until the next Pixar film gets released.

So from a market standpoint, another Muppet film makes a LOT of sense for them. At worst, it's going to be a small loss that might even just be made back on DVD/Blu-Ray sales.

But as for the other negativity... lack of merchandising, forcing the features on a premium format for cheap marketing tactics, the lack of seasons 4+5... well, I guess we're ALL angry about that last one, but you just can't be annoyed by the other two for some reason. The fact that Disney Store Muppet plush constantly sell out, go for twice their value on amazon, and are highly sought by of all people, casual fans... well, that shows a HUGE short sightedness on Disney's part. And like I said, they have SOOO many Cars 2 toys, they have to clear them out.

I see what you're getting at. But, while it is easy to be skeptical about another Muppet movie being made, think of it this way.

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Well see him saying that and you responding here, that's debating and that's fine. You're not telling him he's ruining your mood or the forum just by speaking his mind. That's where the problem has been.