I mean sure it ***** to hear things like that but honestly, it isn't like he is completely wrong in regards to Mike Brown. There is a reason he takes chances of players that have a history of trouble in the past because they are cheap.

I really hope he is changing and will not let the likes of AJ and Geno go. I like Dalton a lot, but I don't think he'll have to be paying him anything like Carson Palmer money for a little while unless he improves a lot more. That doesn't mean I think Dalton is bad, he just still has a lot of work to do but it is only his second year of course.

What he needs to do is take a page out of the good owner in Cincinnati, Castilini (sp?), and resign those big names to long-term contracts with good money especially AJ and Geno.

Of course, I am very optimistic for this young talented team but I am not going to hold my breath just yet. It is still Mike Brown. What can I say, I grew up with the team's of the 90's. We need to get over this hump though and at least pull out one playoff win this season to get the monkey off our back. If we want respect, we need to earn it by not only getting to the playoff's but winning some games there like the best organization's do on a consistent basis.

You do realize that Joseph stated that he wished to remain a Bengal and would try to negotiate a contract and was also willing to accept the franchise tag as well, right? He had no reason to say any of that unless he really wanted to stay. He was a free agent and had no reason to lie.

Joseph left because the Texans offered more guaranteed money. Period. He didn't just "want a change of scenery". He loved coach Zimmer and he got along with his teammates. He left for the same reason most players leave their original teams. Money. We would not commit to him what the Texans did, so he took the guaranteed money.

If we pull the same crap with Geno or AJ, they'll leave too. When you have an elite player, you don't hot dog it when it comes to negotiations. They take that stuff as an insult, and they will find a 1st class team that will pay them.

Offer up something other than JJ.

For the record JJ admitted the uncertainty of the Palmer situation had a part in his decision. You know the guy that Mike made the highest paid player in the league when he signed?

mike brown has actually been alot better at paying productive players over the last few years...better than quite a few other teams out there.

Yeah but now hes going to have quite a lot of good productive players to resign not to mention the fact we still have some holes to fill, it would not shock me to lose on of our good ones. He wont let dalton or green though we all know that. It will be an o lineman or a d lineman is my guess.

Mikey needs a more in-depth understanding what the "Franchise Tag" could actually do for a team...

Having J.Joe here would be great, considering the 'wasted' 1st rd draft pick choice this year...D.Pack-mule

I shutter to think what we could have done in this years draft had we still had JJ,,i know m brown never does this but it would have been oh so nice with all those picks we had to trade up and snatch Trent R lol our offense would have been much more potent, as well our defense would be better too.

Exactly. You can't always go by what the player says in press conferences and interviews etc. The commentators for our games versus the Texans last year talked about JoJo leaving us for the Texans, and they reported that Joseph had said he was happy to stay in Cincinnati if they matched the money the Texans offered, but that the Bengals simply did not.

However, I think you can defend the team's stance on that. JoJo's situation was NOT the same as Andy, AJ or Geno IMO. Andy is the starting QB and AJ and Geno are amongst the very best at their positions in the entire league. Joseph was a talented player, but he also often struggled with injury (as indeed he has this season again) and was never considered amongst the very top CBs in the league when he played for us. I think you can defend the team drawing a line on what they were prepared to pay Joseph ... playing hardball with Andy, AJ or Geno will be a lot harder to defend.

Say what? JJ was not considered amongst the top corners in the league while here? Is that why many touted him and hall as the best corner duo in the league? Is that why the texans were willing to pay bucks to get him? Is that why so many of us fans including zimmer were highly pi##ed when we lost him? Its also no coincidence that halls production has fell since JJ left, they make a great duo.

For the record JJ admitted the uncertainty of the Palmer situation had a part in his decision. You know the guy that Mike made the highest paid player in the league when he signed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dabo614

Yeah but now hes going to have quite a lot of good productive players to resign not to mention the fact we still have some holes to fill, it would not shock me to lose on of our good ones. He wont let dalton or green though we all know that. It will be an o lineman or a d lineman is my guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dabo614

I shutter to think what we could have done in this years draft had we still had JJ,,i know m brown never does this but it would have been oh so nice with all those picks we had to trade up and snatch Trent R lol our offense would have been much more potent, as well our defense would be better too.

JJ. ..JJ. ..JJ. ..the only player that anyone can offer up to support the BS notion that we do not re-sign and pay production well. Teams lose players to FA every single season and if JJ is the only player that can be brought up as a major loss then that speaks for itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dabo614

Say what? JJ was not considered amongst the top corners in the league while here? Is that why many touted him and hall as the best corner duo in the league? Is that why the texans were willing to pay bucks to get him? Is that why so many of us fans including zimmer were highly pi##ed when we lost him? Its also no coincidence that halls production has fell since JJ left, they make a great duo.

JJ. ..JJ. ..JJ. ..the only player that anyone can offer up to support the BS notion that we do not re-sign and pay production well. Teams lose players to FA every single season and if JJ is the only player that can be brought up as a major loss then that speaks for itself.

JJ,,TJ,,justin smith,,willie,,steinbach

Granted i know willie was older and wasnt top notch anymore but we could have used him for at least another year,,,brown did try and keep him but wanted to pay him backup money and willie said no and left. Ever since braham went down they have done nothing to shore up the center spot,,,ghuachic and cook are both jokes (the first one even more so)

Im not sitting here stating that brown has never ever paid,,you all have cited some good examples of him paying/over paying at times. (its beyond me why we keep and pay geathers and peko what we do) i understood paying palmer the big ones because he was looking to be our golden boy for years to come and brown wanted to keep him happy,,however brown didnt realize that by not putting all the compenents together for palmer to win it made him unhappy and i still to this day think the decision to again resign lewis is what made palmer finally snap,,,as he told simpson after the last game that year that they were gonna light it up next year,,1-2 weeks after marvin resigned, palmer states he wanted out.

I still dont understand why ppl get offended when anybody posts bad things about the Bengals. Its starting to get annoying. And it always has the same sentiment. "Why dont they like us? WAAAAAAA" It always has the answer in the 1st couple posts, "because weve never won". Like Its almost time to just sticky one of these and delete the rest. I have a gut feeling we could win the SB and EVERYBODY would make up 1000 excuses to how we were given a SB or how every other team LOST the superbowl.

Get this through your heads guys.... NOBODY LIKES US BUT US, EVERYBODY THINKS WERE A JOKE, WE ARE A JOKE UNTIL WE WIN, STOP EXPECTING PEOPLE TO GIVE US RESPECT WE HAVENT EARNED.

and boom I just found my new sig

__________________
LOVE YOU BETHANY AND BENGALS!!! LET HAVE A GOOD 2013 TOGETHER!!!

I still dont understand why ppl get offended when anybody posts bad things about the Bengals. Its starting to get annoying. And it always has the same sentiment. "Why dont they like us? WAAAAAAA" It always has the answer in the 1st couple posts, "because weve never won". Like Its almost time to just sticky one of these and delete the rest. I have a gut feeling we could win the SB and EVERYBODY would make up 1000 excuses to how we were given a SB or how every other team LOST the superbowl.

Get this through your heads guys.... NOBODY LIKES US BUT US, EVERYBODY THINKS WERE A JOKE, WE ARE A JOKE UNTIL WE WIN, STOP EXPECTING PEOPLE TO GIVE US RESPECT WE HAVENT EARNED.

and boom I just found my new sig

This was just like 04-06, we began to gain respect we were up and coming and starting to win games and had a touted top 3 QB and top 3 WR tandem, but we never could put it all together, thus people kept saying "same ole bungles" We now are starting to win some games again that good and all, but until we start beating elite teams and winning playoff games, peeps just arent going to give respect.

This young squads accomplishments will demand respect when it is all said and done.

Not even worrying about the signing of Dalton, Green, or Geno. All will be inked as Bengals. It is the Andre Smith's and MJ's of the team that I am worried about.

The JJ thing was inexcusable imo. We could have drafted a top LB with our first round pick in lieu of patching our once solid CB core. Think the labor negotiations that off season had MB seeing some sort of loop hole that he gambled and lost on. That one hurt. Belly punch.

But this Bengals squad is perched and ready to make a run for years to come.

But unfortunately some of the extrapolate opinions are warranted. For now. But starting next week the new Bengals legacy begins. The future is bright as long as we retain our players.

I still dont understand why ppl get offended when anybody posts bad things about the Bengals. Its starting to get annoying. And it always has the same sentiment. "Why dont they like us? WAAAAAAA" It always has the answer in the 1st couple posts, "because weve never won". Like Its almost time to just sticky one of these and delete the rest. I have a gut feeling we could win the SB and EVERYBODY would make up 1000 excuses to how we were given a SB or how every other team LOST the superbowl.

Get this through your heads guys.... NOBODY LIKES US BUT US, EVERYBODY THINKS WERE A JOKE, WE ARE A JOKE UNTIL WE WIN, STOP EXPECTING PEOPLE TO GIVE US RESPECT WE HAVENT EARNED.

and boom I just found my new sig

Well, it's a question of accuracy. When they keep listing the five years ago crap as the basis of their argument or just make **** up, it's irritating. How do you not see that?

Granted i know willie was older and wasnt top notch anymore but we could have used him for at least another year,,,brown did try and keep him but wanted to pay him backup money and willie said no and left. Ever since braham went down they have done nothing to shore up the center spot,,,ghuachic and cook are both jokes (the first one even more so)

Im not sitting here stating that brown has never ever paid,,you all have cited some good examples of him paying/over paying at times. (its beyond me why we keep and pay geathers and peko what we do) i understood paying palmer the big ones because he was looking to be our golden boy for years to come and brown wanted to keep him happy,,however brown didnt realize that by not putting all the compenents together for palmer to win it made him unhappy and i still to this day think the decision to again resign lewis is what made palmer finally snap,,,as he told simpson after the last game that year that they were gonna light it up next year,,1-2 weeks after marvin resigned, palmer states he wanted out.

Thank you perfect reply and I could have called everyone of them. You really make it too easy.

1) Justin Smith - What a laugh. Smith was a very average DE in the 4-3 scheme. He was drafted as a pass rusher and never materialized into it. He was what ever gripes about now and that is Geathers. He has proven to be a great fit for the 3-4 scheme. End of story.

2) Steinbach - I love when he is used as an example and those using him conveniently leave out that we had just signed Willie, Bobbie, and Levi all to very large extensions. They as well, leave out that Minnesota had just signed Hutchinson for OT money and that Steinbach was looking for a comparable deal. They also forget the fact that he stunk it up in Cleveland after he got his big money deal.

3) Willie - Are you freaking serious? How long was he the highest paid RT in the league? His knees were so bad he could not even practice. We offered him a reduced deal in a mentor position and he turned it down. The exact proper thing was done and that was an immediate release so that he had a chance to sign elsewhere.

The fact that you question paying Peko speaks volumes. You complain about Geathers but cite Justin Smith as one of your examples....LMAO.

Got anything else?

Wow almost left out TJ. You do realize the offers from Seattle and Cincy were extremely close but he had this illusion that he would be and should be the #1 in Seattle. You also realize that he regretted his decision and went on record as saying he should have stayed in Cincy?

This young squads accomplishments will demand respect when it is all said and done.

Not even worrying about the signing of Dalton, Green, or Geno. All will be inked as Bengals. It is the Andre Smith's and MJ's of the team that I am worried about.

The JJ thing was inexcusable imo. We could have drafted a top LB with our first round pick in lieu of patching our once solid CB core. Think the labor negotiations that off season had MB seeing some sort of loop hole that he gambled and lost on. That one hurt. Belly punch.

But this Bengals squad is perched and ready to make a run for years to come.

But unfortunately some of the extrapolate opinions are warranted. For now. But starting next week the new Bengals legacy begins. The future is bright as long as we retain our players.

I basically always agree with what you say. If you don't mind, I've convinced myself that "Cards" in your name refers to playing cards. Sorry, it's the Bearcat/Reds fan in me.

This was just like 04-06, we began to gain respect we were up and coming and starting to win games and had a touted top 3 QB and top 3 WR tandem, but we never could put it all together, thus people kept saying "same ole bungles" We now are starting to win some games again that good and all, but until we start beating elite teams and winning playoff games, peeps just arent going to give respect.

You mean teams like Pittsburgh and the Giants. Or going on the road and having a winning record in other teams stadiums?

Thank you perfect reply and I could have called everyone of them. You really make it too easy.

1) Justin Smith - What a laugh. Smith was a very average DE in the 4-3 scheme. He was drafted as a pass rusher and never materialized into it. He was what ever gripes about now and that is Geathers. He has proven to be a great fit for the 3-4 scheme. End of story.

2) Steinbach - I love when he is used as an example and those using him conveniently leave out that we had just signed Willie, Bobbie, and Levi all to very large extensions. They as well, leave out that Minnesota had just signed Hutchinson for OT money and that Steinbach was looking for a comparable deal. They also forget the fact that he stunk it up in Cleveland after he got his big money deal.

3) Willie - Are you freaking serious? How long was he the highest paid RT in the league? His knees were so bad he could not even practice. We offered him a reduced deal in a mentor position and he turned it down. The exact proper thing was done and that was an immediate release so that he had a chance to sign elsewhere.

The fact that you question paying Peko speaks volumes. You complain about Geathers but cite Justin Smith as one of your examples....LMAO.

Got anything else?

Wow almost left out TJ. You do realize the offers from Seattle and Cincy were extremely close but he had this illusion that he would be and should be the #1 in Seattle. You also realize that he regretted his decision and went on record as saying he should have stayed in Cincy?

Well, it's a question of accuracy. When they keep listing the five years ago crap as the basis of their argument or just make **** up, it's irritating. How do you not see that?

Whats irritating is how people like you dont manage to see that the 5 years ago crap is still here,,the only difference is we have a diff core of players,,,and until they start winning in the playoffs the past is not the past its still the present.

Thank you perfect reply and I could have called everyone of them. You really make it too easy.

1) Justin Smith - What a laugh. Smith was a very average DE in the 4-3 scheme. He was drafted as a pass rusher and never materialized into it. He was what ever gripes about now and that is Geathers. He has proven to be a great fit for the 3-4 scheme. End of story.

2) Steinbach - I love when he is used as an example and those using him conveniently leave out that we had just signed Willie, Bobbie, and Levi all to very large extensions. They as well, leave out that Minnesota had just signed Hutchinson for OT money and that Steinbach was looking for a comparable deal. They also forget the fact that he stunk it up in Cleveland after he got his big money deal.

3) Willie - Are you freaking serious? How long was he the highest paid RT in the league? His knees were so bad he could not even practice. We offered him a reduced deal in a mentor position and he turned it down. The exact proper thing was done and that was an immediate release so that he had a chance to sign elsewhere.

The fact that you question paying Peko speaks volumes. You complain about Geathers but cite Justin Smith as one of your examples....LMAO.

Got anything else?

Wow almost left out TJ. You do realize the offers from Seattle and Cincy were extremely close but he had this illusion that he would be and should be the #1 in Seattle. You also realize that he regretted his decision and went on record as saying he should have stayed in Cincy?

I am aware of what TJ later said,,,and i pointed out yes willie was getting old and i said 1 more year i didnt say sign him to some big contract, nor did i say pay him some huge 1 year deal. Steinbach did not play as well in cleveland we all know that, but he was solid here and should have been kept end of story (especially with braham going down) Justin smith didnt turn into a sack machine here but he was still solid and worth keeping.

"The fact that you question paying Peko speaks volumes."

The fact that you think we should pay him good money to stay speaks volumes,,,hes garbo and has been,,,there for a couple years he was stout against the run and that was it. Peko cant get pressure on a QB if his baby was being held for ransom,,,but thats not my gripe with him,,,my gripe is he rarely gets any push on the o line whatsoever, if anything hes the one getting pushed back or held in place, therefore he is no help in disrupting the line, which is why i like sims in there more than peko,,,and geathers is a joke and has been for years.

You mean teams like Pittsburgh and the Giants. Or going on the road and having a winning record in other teams stadiums?

Your joking right?

The steelers have been banged up all year,,,its obvious they are having one of their few off years, yet they still beat us earlier in the season,,,we barely scraped by the game with a 3 pt win against a banged up team that hasnt played very well all year.

As for the giants again your joking right? They are possibly the most streaky team in the NFL, when they are on, they play good solid football, when they are off they arent just average they flat out stink.

Not to mention but you dont beat a good team ONE time and now everyone respects you,,we hadnt beaten the steelers in how long? Oh boy we are elite now cause we finally beat them once out of what the last 5 meetings when they were banged up having an off year and only by 3 pts,,,woohoo we are elite and deserve respect now.

Whats irritating is how people like you dont manage to see that the 5 years ago crap is still here,,the only difference is we have a diff core of players,,,and until they start winning in the playoffs the past is not the past its still the present.

People being obsessed with the things that are wrong in light of the way the team has played the last two years just baffles me.

Isn't one of the byproducts of being a fan a certain amount of feeling good? If so, why dwell on the negative when your team is winning? I don't get it.

When things are going well for me, I don't relentlessly keep reliving the bad times. Call me crazy.

When it comes to the internet/infotainment sports writers, I know exactly why they have to keep dredging up the past for this franchise. They are usually not very bright or talented or clever, so they mentally hold onto an easy target like their lives are riding on it.

Suddenly, the Clippers are good, the Bengals are good. Oh, no, who do I take cheap shots at now? Poking fun at the Bengals is one of their go-to's. What will they have now?

As a writer, if you're intelligent, clever and insightful, you don't need "controversy." You can succeed with the simple truth. But the simple truth is one things they neither care about nor even care to find.

Hey, you wanna use "Twenty, thirty years blah, blah, blah..." as your mantra, go right ahead.

Say what? JJ was not considered amongst the top corners in the league while here? Is that why many touted him and hall as the best corner duo in the league? Is that why the texans were willing to pay bucks to get him? Is that why so many of us fans including zimmer were highly pi##ed when we lost him? Its also no coincidence that halls production has fell since JJ left, they make a great duo.

Maybe I just explained myself badly ... but, no, JJ was never considered amongst the top CBs in the league, or even conference, when he played for us. That's why Darrelle Revis, Nnamdi Asomugha, Champ Bailey, Asante Samuel, Rashean Mathis, Antonio Cromartie, Chris McAlister, and Cortland Finnegan all made the Pro Bowl for the AFC from 2007-2010 and JoJo made none.

The Texans were willing to pay big bucks for him because Houston had the #32 (!) pass D in the league in 2010 and JoJo was a major upgrade for them. They were rewarded with JJ's first Pro Bowl season last year, but now that he seems to be struggling with injuries again this year they may still yet regret the big money they shelled out for him.

I am aware of what TJ later said,,,and i pointed out yes willie was getting old and i said 1 more year i didnt say sign him to some big contract, nor did i say pay him some huge 1 year deal. Steinbach did not play as well in cleveland we all know that, but he was solid here and should have been kept end of story (especially with braham going down) Justin smith didnt turn into a sack machine here but he was still solid and worth keeping.

"The fact that you question paying Peko speaks volumes."

The fact that you think we should pay him good money to stay speaks volumes,,,hes garbo and has been,,,there for a couple years he was stout against the run and that was it. Peko cant get pressure on a QB if his baby was being held for ransom,,,but thats not my gripe with him,,,my gripe is he rarely gets any push on the o line whatsoever, if anything hes the one getting pushed back or held in place, therefore he is no help in disrupting the line, which is why i like sims in there more than peko,,,and geathers is a joke and has been for years.

Well I am certainly glad you are not making roster decisions for this franchise. Geathers is solid and you gripe about his paycheck yet you as well gripe that we did not bring Smith back whom you admit was nothing more than solid yet his paycheck would have been larger.

See the confusion there? So which is it pay for solid or not pay for solid or is it only pay for the solid you think they should pay for?

Steinbach. .....you are laughable on this front. So please cite an example of any NFL team where four of their oline are the highest paid or close to the highest paid at their positions in the league since you show zero credence to fhe extensions signed by Willie, Levi, and Bobbie. You can not realistically put that kind of money toward one portion of a team.

So you are saying Zimmer is wrong in playing Peko the number of snaps that he does and playing Sims the few snaps he does? That would not make him much of a DC now would it. Cue the because of paycheck argument. Does Zimmer strike you as the sorf of guy that cares what someone is making?