Abu-Mazen doesn’t recognize Israel right to have a state not officialy and not unofficialy. damn your lack of knowledge is amazing. No one says no here to 2 state solutions. People do say no to giving arabs lands again and being attack AGAIN.

@RafaelFernandeSantos There were terrorist attacks that coming FROM the west bank NOT in the west bank.
Terrorist attacks is killing civillians not soldier are really that dumb? murdering an entire family as they sleep in night is called terrorist attack, bombing a civillian bus in Tel Aviv is called terrorist attack that exactly what the palestinians support. They support killing of jews.

@RafaelFernandeSantos Would it be legitimate that rockets will hover over your house every 2 months?
How would you country respond you stupid nazi?
IDF don’t kill civillians on purpose and Israel never support such a thing expect of few redical residents maybe.
sounds like you been to Israel huh? don’t tell me fictionary stories I am from Israel you can’t fool me idiot nazi.

@RafaelFernandeSantos Oh so because one idiot guy here says we shouldn’t respond to Hammas, that means that Israel must not respond to the thaosands of rockets hovering in south Israel for the past 10 years?
make much senese huh? use your anti-semetic brain idiot..

militarism is one thing, violence terrorism is other thing. People in Israel don’t arrange huge sucide attacks in the name of their religions, the palestinians do!

@RafaelFernandeSantos Lavon Affair is called “bad deal” עסק ביש Esek Bish in hebrew and I really don’t see how an incident in 1954 can reflect to Israelis values.. The guys who were behind this idea were judged and senteced for many years in the prison.

How the refugees became refugees why you still ignoring this?
Numbers don’t impress me either. The fact here is that Israel is not the attackers, Hammas and palestinians are the attackers. Israel is allowed to defend itself you idiot or what?

@saaron6 One of the factors behind Hamas’s narrow electoral victory is that, throughout its years administrating schools, charities and orphanages, Hamas has developed a reputation as being more transparent than the PLO, who are widely regarded as corrupt. As for the Abbas, you’re lying about him denying Israel’s right to be a state. Even Arafat said in the 80s he didn’t contest Israel’s right to existence. Btw, do you have something to say on Likud’s charter denyig a 2-state solution?

@saaron6 So what if there’ve been terrorist attacks in the West Bank? They’re targeting, not IL civilians, but occupation forces: soldiers and settlers. People have the right to defend their lands against invaders. Plus, not all that happens in the West Bank can be blamed on the population as a whole or their government. There are always rogue elements within a group. Or do you think there are no rogue Israelis? What do you feel about the arson attack against a mosque in north IL some weeks ago?

@saaron6 4 – That’d explain why evil Hamas has so far caused so few casualties as compared to the IDF. And so what if Palestinians greet the prisoners Israel’s freed? Didn’t you say a people can embrace militarism if it’s pushed by external conditions? There certainly seems to be conditions for Palestinians to sympathize with those ‘terrorist’: they’re after all the only military force thy’ve been allowed to create. Plus, the IDF has killed many civilians too, and Israelis love it nonetheless.

@saaron6 3 – Btw, have you ever heard of Martin van Creveld? He’s Israel’s most famed military scholar. He wrote a Moshe Dayan biography that’s been translated to many languages (I myself read it in Portuguese). And his assessment of Hamas attacks is that Hamas is afraid of Israeli military responses; that its missile attacks are largely for show, to please a domestic audience; and that Hamas in fact sees that its missiles won’t cause casualties. Israel’s responses are thus disproportionate…

@saaron6 2 – The number of missiles launched doesn’t impress me. A better measure to gauge the aggressiveness of an institution is how many victims it has produced. At this Hamas is far surpassed by Israel. Israel has used white phosphorus against Arabs, it has on purpose shelled civilian infrastructure (including food factories), and it has wounded and killed WAY MORE civilians than Hamas. And I’m not even going to talk about the settler vandalism against Palestinian property.

@saaron6 You have no problem mentioning Hamas or Arab countries’ aggression against IL. But b/c I mention the other side of the coin, Israeli aggression as exemplified by the Lavon Affair, you conclude I’m anti-Semitic. Quit being oversensitive. If you think you can explain away Israeli unprovoked aggression as self-defense, then I can say the same whenever Arab or Muslim forces attack Israel. Do you think that’d be fair of me? And please, Israel IS violent. The refugees are there for a reason.

@RafaelFernandeSantos
btw Hammas was elected in democratic elections and Abu Mazen still don’t recognize our right to have a state and call his terrorists “political prisoners”, while we do recognize their right to have a state.

@RafaelFernandeSantos palestinians in the west bank also showed their support in Hammas on Gilad Shalit deal when they greet and welcome terrorists and murdrers..
oh and most of the terrorist attacks this year were from Palestinians from the west bank. actually most of the terrorist attacks were done by the west bank people – First Intifada and of course the Second Intifada that came AFTER oslo agreement.

@RafaelFernandeSantos Palestinians greet them and see them as heros. Israel see people like Gilad Shalit who defend lifes over here as heroes. Israelis﻿ see heros as those who SAVE lifes, while the Palestinians see heros as those who TAKE lifes

@RafaelFernandeSantos funny how almost every anti-Semitic guy I agrue with brings up lavon affair.

agression is a way to defend yourself. do you know how those palestinians turned refugees? or perhaps why would you ask that you might want to keep blaiming Israel.
Israel is well connected to its army, but it’s not violant. a 1 far left fake poll can’t really prove anything. perhaps you should see who Israel elected in the elections, oh wait that will blow your hating buble too isnt it?

@saaron6 3 – My use of “democracy” is the standard one. There are polls, which I can show you, proving Israelis value “strong leadership” over democracy. As for Gaza, Israel’s mistake was to withdraw from the area without negotiating a peace agreement with Hamas. But it isn’t Hamas only that is ungrateful. West Bank Palestianians have given up on armed fighting and embraced a UN-solution to their issues. And what they get from Israel as a response, as a punishment, is settlement building.

@saaron6 2 – There were many Jewish terrorist groups prior to 48. So there’s been more than 1 Jewish terrorist attack against Arabs. Plus, Israeli aggression takes the form not only of terrorism but also of state aggression (by, say, the Mossad, the IDF). The Palestinian refugees are themselves victims of state aggression intended to turn Israel a Jewish-majority area. There are many instances of non-terrorist, but nonetheless, shameful acts of Israeli aggresssion (eg, Lavon Affair).

@saaron6 1 – No doubt external situations mold a people’s psychology. Their country’s history may well explain Israelis’ mindset. That’s why I’ve been saying all along that your comparison between Israelis and Palestinians – that Israelis value generosity while Palestinians, and they only, idealize aggression – was self-serving. You’re now admitting that I was right, that Israelis indeed have a combative mindset. And I agree with you that that would be an expected outcome from Israel’s history.

@RafaelFernandeSantos btw, you are using a very foggy titles to describe Israelis.

by so called “democracy” you mean – giving lands to palestinians despite the fact the palestinians don’t want peace but killing jews. By “millitarism” and “strong leadership” you mean a sovereign country who isn’t going to give anymore lands to the people who wants it dead.

Israel gave back Gaza – it got rockets, Israel gave palestinians autonamy in Oslo agreement it got hundreds of terrorist acts.

how can you expect a people not to be “millitaristic” when they are fighting for there lifes even before their country was born. We are talking about Israel here, not Norway or Brazil. Israel is surrounded by arab states who wants to destroy it. Fought 3 all-out wars against multiple enemies and multiple huge terrorist organizations.

There was only 1 jewish terrorist attack but there were thousands of terrorist attacks made by palestinians.

@saaron6 Why IL’s attached to the IDF doesn’t matter. What matters is that it is; that Israelis, according to polls, value militarism and strong leadership over democracy – a mindset fits very well with the suggestion that violence is valued among Israelis, while it doesn’t fit your ridiculously self-serving assertion that you value charity and generosity while Palestinians idealize death. PS: You have a fair share of initiated wars and aggression of your own; stop crying about others’ response.