I spent 3 hours in the ER on the 15th. I just got my $11,000.00 bill in the mail.

You think it's okay for one human to use another human being for ones own PERSONAL benefit and gain? That should be a right? I will NEVER feel that
is right OR a right.

Socialism sounds like a nice thang to have, but seriously, it just ain't right, it's immoral, involuntary servitude is immoral. Do you get that
much? That's one of my main issues with socialism. YOU ASK ME NICELY .. YOU DON'T DEMAND !!!

Hey, can all our socialists go live with you where you live, they'll like it there I think better than here living next to old mind-my-own-business
me.

I may be laying half dead in a gutter with my heart hanging out of a hole in my chest and yes I may ASK and BEG for help ... but NEVER EVER would I
take out a law or a gun and put it to another humans head and demand and force them to save my life .. or to feed me .. That's just not my style,
man .. and you can't understand THAT and WHY I might BE like THAT?

Nobody will come and FORCE you to pay for anyone else's medical bill.

It's taxes.... you have taxes right?

If such a thing ever became a tax, then they CAN force you and even kill you if you refuse to pay and play.

Seriously, if you disagree with something this government and their shakedown tugs (IRS agents), and you try to resist them, they will come and arrest
you and if you refuse they can bust into your home, steal everything, and then kill you dead dead dead .. and they have done just that to others .. on
numerous occasions when people have tried to resist and wanted to just be left alone.

EVERYONE pays and EVERYONE benefits.

Not equally. And, what if it is against ones moral beliefs to participate in socialism, can they opt out without penalty? I don't want to be a
socialist, I don't want to be immoral, I don't want to benefit from involuntary servitude. Leave me out of all that, that's all I ask, okay?

Originally posted by Shamanistical
If such a thing ever became a tax, then they CAN force you and even kill you if you refuse to pay and play.

Seriously, if you disagree with something this government and their shakedown tugs (IRS agents), and you try to resist them, they will come and arrest
you and if you refuse they can bust into your home, steal everything, and then kill you dead dead dead .. and they have done just that to others .. on
numerous occasions when people have tried to resist and wanted to just be left alone.

Well as we say In good old Blighty...

Only in America. :shk:

Seriously.... do you like being paranoid and suspicious that your government is trying to kill you... and that the commies and socialists are waiting
to steal all your money to help people.... and hating everyone and everything you think even resembles socialism?

It's insane..... it's sad man.

Or would you rather "voluntarily" pay through the nose to some medical company for treatment/medicine that probably costs one tenth of what you
pay?

Ahhhh good old capitalism eh?

What a joke man.

I'm glad you like it man..... sounds like hell to me... literally.... barbaric, third world hell.

Enjoy.

Not equally. And, what if it is against ones moral beliefs to participate in socialism, can they opt out without penalty? I don't want to be a
socialist, I don't want to be immoral, I don't want to benefit from involuntary servitude. Leave me out of all that, that's all I ask,
okay?

Again, my issue with socialism is that unless it is voluntary, it is immoral. Please, do NOT force me to subscribe to your ideals, or into laboring
for your ideals. I want peace, not war with the socialists. Please, again, I ask the socialists to leave the rest of us alone, go play socialism all
by yourselves in a corner somewhere, okay? Please? You all have no right or authority to FORCE everyone else to do anything for you all.

Gawd, commies, can't you all just play nice while on Earth and stop with all this authoritarian crap and all these endless demands and expectations
of others? How can ya'll hold everyone else to a higher standard than yourselves? Hey, you all go make me a malted milk shake right now .. I have
deemed I have authority over you and I need such nourishment to survive to see another day .. come on, do it .. if you are a true socialist, you'll
do whatever I think necessary of you to insure I have a comfy life, ha. Oh, and make it a strawberry shake, fresh too, and I don't care if you have
to grow some if you have to .. come on, FEED ME, it's my right to make such a demand of another human, grow me some food and take care of my smoke
filled cancerous lungs .. yeah I know it's my fault for smoking all these years, but now it's my right to make you all PAY PAY PAY. (ha, NOT ...
socialists, go take a HIKE!!!)

Originally posted by blupblup
I really don't get anyone.... literally, who says "I don't want to help others...

Again, it's not helping I'm against, I'm merely against the involuntary nature of socialism, it's immoral. Again, there is one heck of a huge
difference between charity and involuntary servitude. Socialism should not be mandatory. It's just the nature of its implementation I take issue
with. Socialism/helping should always be voluntary, period, otherwise it's slavery. Do you want to live in an immoral society? I don't.

Originally posted by Shamanistical
Again, my issue with socialism is that unless it is voluntary, it is immoral.

Absolutely, my friend! That gentlemen mentioned with his 100k bill on the previous page, he should be pushing daisies rather force his immoral self
onto your highness.

Please, do NOT force me to subscribe to your ideals, or into laboring for your ideals.

Look, seems you feel at ease proclaiming your faith into complete lack of coverage even if the reality of the pricing schemes here in the States are
such that the numbers belong in astronomy catalogs, not in people's hospital accounts. There is just no way anyone can pay that no more than they can
fly to the Moon. So while your explaining YOUR view of the Universe, let others have a word we well.

The same thing happend to my wife with a back spasam... and they never stopped the pain the reason she went.
she complained... first they maxed out her ER 3 thousand limit, and then they zapped her with 3K on top of that.
.... after 3 months of bad talk, she said something stupid... I'll pay you 25$ a month til hell freezes over... appearently that was acceptable...
she has been making payments every month for three years now... late every month.... of coarse... they wanted to add late payment ... I had to remind
them we didnt agree to interest or late payments... and they can kiss my ass if they were not happy with 25$ a month....
still making payments ...

So the OP refuses to do anything about his financial situation, then comes here to complain and most of the people take his side and complain about
the system????? People like him are exactly why most of the people do not want to foot the bill for others.

Originally posted by backwherewestarted
So the OP refuses to do anything about his financial situation, then comes here to complain and most of the people take his side and complain about
the system????? People like him are exactly why most of the people do not want to foot the bill for others.

I do not know the OP or his circumstances. In an economy like we are having now, being unemployed is a lot more likely than 10 years a go.

And another point is sheer magnitude of the bill for what, it seems, are a handful of run-of-the-mill procedures. It's called something like gauging.
Right?

Originally posted by buddhasystem
There is just no way anyone can pay that no more than they can fly to the Moon.

LOL, you're not helping your case here with a statement like that. So ... assuming we can never indivually afford to pay our own health care keep
while here on Earth, how does that work collectively if we can't contribute enough individually to cover our own butts let alone anyone else?

Anyhow, I think I can do better for myself if I pay my own way and handle my own personal life affairs. Government, stay out of my personal life,
please. If I join some socialist health care collective that insures people I don't want to share medical expenses with (i.e. because they are all
fat and don't exercise and sleep around), I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get out of it as much as could afford and get on my own. It's the same
with those stinking union jobs, I've always done better for myself doing my own negotiating. I don't need a collective to take care of ME, I'm a
big boy, almost a grown adult now, ha. I'm pretty sure the government can't do better for me what I can do for myself on my own.

Funny isn't it how some expect so much from others yet expect so little from themselves, ha.

Originally posted by blupblup
Do you pay taxes? I asked before.... why.... how dare they steal money to pay for stuff like roads and firefighters and police.... that's just
sickening.

That is not involuntary servitude. Those things we all benefit from equally whether we use them or not. Go read the definition of involuntary
servitude. What I'm saying is that it's immoral to "involuntarily" enslave another human for the "personal" benefit of another. A road we all benefit
from. Fixing up someone that doesn't want to stop smoking or 90 year old grandpa for another $500k so they can live another year is benefiting
nobody, especially those enslaved to pay for this nonsense.

Gawd, humans have become like vampires .. they now seem to need to suck the life blood out of another human in order to survive. Sorry, but I will
not sell my soul to keep my carcass alive at the expense of my children and grand children and the yet to be born.

I think it's disgusting that there are those among us on Earth that are willing to also enslave the yet to be born into this mandatory socialist
nonsense. Can you imagine the surprise when the next child born realizes he or she will be working tomorrow for free because those that came before
them have conscripted them into socialist slavery before they were even born. Creepy humans, yuck, that's disgusting and horrible. Humans totally
creep me out with their vampireness.

Socialists, stop trying to force your ideals down the throats of everyone else, that's just bad, wrong, immoral, and probably a sin. I can do the
same? Or worse, can DEFEND MY FREEDOM from the likes of your enslaving kind? Can I force my ideals upon YOU?

Come on man, you socialists are not playing fair. Leave everyone else alone, commies ... or else !!!

Now excuse me, I'm going to do some googleearth surfing .. see if there's some kind of emergency escape path leading out of the USA in case the
socialists get their way, ha. Man, are the commies going to be surprised when one morning they wake up to find that all the people they had enslaved
have escaped to freedom. That will be a funny day, ha, what will they do then? Cry?

Originally posted by backwherewestarted
So the OP refuses to do anything about his financial situation, then comes here to complain and most of the people take his side and complain about
the system????? People like him are exactly why most of the people do not want to foot the bill for others.

I do not know the OP or his circumstances. In an economy like we are having now, being unemployed is a lot more likely than 10 years a go.

And another point is sheer magnitude of the bill for what, it seems, are a handful of run-of-the-mill procedures. It's called something like gauging.
Right?

I never said anything about employment, simply about the fact that he has excuses as to why he, allegedly, makes only $50 a month. His health is so
bad that he can't go to the nearest public transport stop, but he won't get disability (how does he get food?), he has no job because of this
distance/health issue yet he refuses to get welfare. In other words he refuses to do anything about his situation but anyone who does not feel bad
for him and get angry at the system is a horrible person. What a joke.

It is incredible how people still thinks in terms of socialist and capitalist in 2011. I don't see it as that. When it works, it works... It doesn't
matter if it is socialist or capitalist.
I am from Argentina, Buenos Aires, but I've moved to USA 10 years ago. Before somebody says anything about illegals, I did not cross the border,
I've came by airplane with my tourist visa, then I've become a permanent resident by a job sponsor. I was amazed at US' credit system and the DMV
system. My country is just starting on that.
On the other side I was in disbelief with the healthcare and the education. I could not believe I had a better chance of surviving and getting college
education in my third world country than the glorious USA.
In my country of course they have charges, nothing like here, but if you cannot afford it, you can make a donation if you want, or not pay at all if
it is a situation like the OP.
I have Blue Cross Blue Shield here (BCBS, especially the BS part) and when my doctor wanted to check my brain, he decided to go for a CT-Scan. Before
I was going to do the procedure I called BCBS and they told me I was fine and covered, TWICE.
A month after I had the CT-Scan comes a bill of $950 from the hospital saying BCBS did not covered the bill because I did not have proof of previous
coverage for at least 6 months (I was just hired at my job). Of course after a certain amount of hours over the phone with BCBS and some cursing I've
opted for getting my proof of previous coverage, which thankfully was within 6 months by 10 days, the bill was gone but the hospital only got $45 from
BCBS for it. Sounds familiar?
For the people that says the college costs a lot for a medical career... It's ok, but why BCBS doesn't help with the college costs? There is no
explanation for this difference...
We should be able to take these companies to court for stuff like this, but the laws are not written for us...
My parents were coming to live to USA and I've mistakenly showed them SICKO by Michael Moore. They didn't wanted to stay after that... It sounds
like a joke but it's not.
If you didn't see that movie, please watch it. And you can also see differences between socialism and capitalism, it will blow you away.
Hopefully the OP will make $5 monthly payments and get well, sorry about that.
Or you may want to change your name to Juan Perez and learn to talk with a latin accent...

Ya know, you really need to do some research into just how much taxpayer money is flowing into the healthcare system. There's extra student aid,
just for the scholarships for doctors and nurses, most the hospitals would be under if it wasn't for gov't aiding them, much of the research is
funded through gov't grants....and then there's all the money that is going to help the poor, the handicapped and the elderly. And, then, there's
all the people out there who think they should have some sort of say over what I eat, what I smoke, how much I excercise, ect....
Insurance companies (a form of socialism in itself!) decide which doctors I can see, which medicines I can take, what the medical proceedures will
be!

seems to me, we already have all the drawbacks of a socialized system as it is! Only......many of us aren't getting much of anything as far as
benefits from it except the priviledge of going stark raving mad about once a year as we listen to our elected officials whine about how they need
more money....TO PAY FOR THE MEDICAID AND MEDICARE!!! And listen to nosy people as they try to dictate to us how we should live because we're
"gonna cost them money!!"

EITHER GET YOU NOSES OUT OF MY BUSINESS, AND YOUR HANDS OUT OF MY WALLET, OR FIND A WAY SO THAT THE HEALTHCARE IS AFFORDABLE FOR ALL OF THOSE WHO ARE
FORCED TO PITCH IN THEIR HARD EARNED DOUGH TO PAY FOR THE SYSTEM!!!

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