Honestly, I think all pure dps classes should have the option between melee and ranged. Adding options like battlemage, melee hunter, battlewitch, something along the lines of the nightblade rogue from rift, and making them spec options would probably do wonders for the pure dps population as a whole. Nightblade rogues in rift can switch between melee combat and ranged fire/death magic combat on the fly for those unaware.

The core of any rogue type is sky high front loaded damage and avoidance. Kill or be killed in very short spaces of time.

However, in wow we have rogues with slow ramp up damage (which is decent) which is mostly passive.

I can understand why they don't want us to open with 200k ambushes and so on like happened in vanilla, but it means that anyone starting a rogue doesn't get to play what they probably were expecting to when they picked one. And when there are still nukers around in other classes/specs.........

They should buff CP builders and finishers to compensate that, result? Less passive dmg, more active dmg, i can't stand in today's wow a class whose dmg comes for a good 40% from passive skills (autoattack, poisons, main gauche) while all other classes have a shitton of active skills for their dmg

I think GC's question needs to be flipped. Instead of "Why aren't more people choosing rogue?" it should be "Why should people choose a rogue?" There should be good answers to that - because they fill a niche other classes can't, do the melee dps role better, etc. But as it is, there's no compelling reason to roll rogue vs another melee DPS class. With the removal of the hybrid tax kitty DPS is comparable. So is DK DPS. Ret... comes and goes, but is OK generally. Monk is as good. Notice something? Every single one of the other melee dps classes can also do either healing, tanking or both.

Leveling and gearing a character is typically an investment of hundreds of hours. With a rogue, you have to REALLY want to play melee dps and be very comfortable with the class design. If you're not both of those, roll another of the classes I mentioned and you at least have the option of switching roles without leveling an entirely new character.

Because they've bastardized all the rogue abilities and handed them out to every other class. The rogue brings nothing (like a group buff) to the raid that another class can't bring. And, their only real job... dps... and they are not even best at that. It's alright though guys...... GHOSTCRAWLER IS ON THE CASE NOW!

what he said.. !

i think the same thing ,and i play rogue since release..

not only dont we bring anything ( lol Tott ) no thanks

But they broke the gameplay

Where is the cool rotation from sub ?

where is the cool hunger for blood rotation with 3 stacks?

i played my rogue so much that in wotlk times i used to press hunger for blood to refresh it... even on a flying mount... man i died so many times cause i was so used to refresh hunger for blood stack..

Looking at http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html wich i would guess is a bit off but i would still think that it's not off by too much, all of the rogue speccs got 30%> downtime with assa at 45% downtime compared to other classes that sits at 0-15% downtime, except feral druid(40% downtime) that also use the combo point/energy resources.

I'd be thankful for some serious work on our dps down time, it's amongst the highest of any class now, mutilate (now even more so that the energy gain from rupture is rng based) can be seriously painful at times.

I'd be thankful for some serious work on our dps down time, it's amongst the highest of any class now, mutilate (now even more so that the energy gain from rupture is rng based) can be seriously painful at times.

The random nature of the energy returns from Rupture can be seriously painful on the spec. Having RNG determine energy generation for Assassination is horrible considering how slow the spec is already. They should give Assassination a spec-specific bleed, granting energy on every tick while only costing energy to apply. That would instantly make the spec much more interesting.

Furthermore, I don't understand why Slice and Dice hasn't been made baseline for Assassination. FINE, if you want to keep the 40% attack speed buff then keep it, but don't make it fucking trivial to keep up; That just makes the instances in which it falls off much more hurtful. I don't want to waste 80 energy every time Slice has to be manually reapplied.

In BC Rogues were the only class that had stuns if IIRC now every class has a stun or multi stuns. When LK came out they got rid of the hybrid tax so there that made pure dps classes kinda useless that brings up when LK came out they made hybrid classes very fun to play. When they came out with LFG it made hybrids even better because you didn't have to wait long to que. Flying mounts made it where rogues couldn't gank anymore which made rogues less fun to play. IDK all these hurt the rogue for sure.

I would say more times per min to push a button less passive damage would help out a lot. Make haste not effect energy that would help it out just give more energy regen and don't let it scale kind of like what they did to warrior. I'm sure I could think of others but I got to go to work.

The main problem with Rogues is just that they are boring. We don't need buffs, we need more interesting mechanics and animations. Maybe even a 4th spec, a tanking Fencer who uses just one weapon and the free hand to do all kinds of maneuvers.
Also less passive damage and downtime for all specs.

Rogue Community:Our mechanics are boring, our dps is too passive, lack of mobility in pvp, mobs that cleave are one shotting us!

Blizz: It's impossible or simply too much work to fix these things in one patch, everything will be fine in the new expansion. JUST TRUST US!

this is pretty much it. I had really high hopes for MoP. seeing the changes (really all of them making it worse..) i dropped my rogue. sadly, i always end up back with him -.-; but 5.2 will be different! right..?

1. Slice and Dice, just terrible. Completely redesign this and make it something like "Can only be activated when 'insert reason'." And then make it so that it does more then just add white damage. Increase energy regeneration, reduce the energy cost of combo point builders, make finishers use "X" less combo points for a duration. Just something more then what it currently is.

2. That leads me to the next thing, we have no "reactionary" abilities, no procs. We have nothing to go "Oh shit, I can use 'awesome ability of pwnage' sweet!"

3. Lvl 90 Talents .... Redirect is a terrible attempt at a band aid fix for the sad functionality of our combo point system, Versatility while not very interesting at least changes the flow of our rotations and allows us to avoid wastefulness in our energy/cp usage. Shuriken Toss I can tackle with another point soooo onto the next.

4. Shuriken Toss shouldn't have been a talent, what would have been interesting was having it be part of a move to make one of our specs into a ranged viable alternative. I know this probably isn't a popular idea but I like it so I mentioned it. XD

5. Baseline rogue abilities being forced into talents is just the laziest bullshit I think I've ever seen from Blizzard in my time with this game. Along side the garbage we got handed with our Tier 1 an Tier 6 talents, it just makes our trees pathetic. The other half of the talents are either pvp focused or have close to zero pve implementations. Out of the whole tree the only things I see as even remotely useful for pve are the Tier 3 damage mitigation and Tier 4 increased mobility talents. Even when considering those however in reality you should never need to count on Cheat Death in a boss fight cause it means you're doing something wrong, and Leeching just never seemed like it healed enough to make that much of a difference on your healers. (I could be wrong since I've barely played any MoP but its just my impression.) So to me the only one there in Tier 3 that makes an impact is Elusiveness.

6. It's truly infuriating to see other classes getting the proper implementation of certain aspects of the rogue and then being told that we can't have the same because it would make the classes "too similar". Well enlighten me then, if you didn't want the classes to be similar then why the hell did you give Paladins and Monks what essentially boils down to renamed combo points? Not only that, but versions that function better?

7. Its just all stale at this point. The complete lack of inspiration and imagination when it comes to the development of the rogue class in .... well since its inception has left us a class that remained so similar from patch to patch, expansion to expansion that its sucked all the fun and enjoyment out of playing. I loved my rogue in BC, Shadow Step was such a breath of fresh air that I never got bored of using it. However since then every patch and expansion has left me at a lower point. I think Blizzard should take a look at the Rift Rogue and see if they can find some sort of inspiration to get rogues to a better place.

Two separate conversations are masquerading as the same one. We're logically talking about what would make our rogues feel better. But we are already rogues. We might say, "Anticipation should be baseline because it adds subtlety and depth to rogues rotation and designing around Anticipation would probably make our rotations more interesting." This is good feedback. But Anticipation will not make anyone want to roll a rogue.

The Devs are more concerned about what will draw people to the class in the first place. By extension, that would also make people less willing to leave their rogue.

Rogues need more flashy gameplay. I felt baseline step was mandatory not for PvE/PvP reasons but simply because it's a nifty ability. You see a rogue do that and say, "huh, that's fairly cool." (See flight form; see Death grip; see Hunter's pet).
We should have swashbuckling moves like heroic leap or acrobatic moves like roll; but those are now lost. Climbing would be excellent though possibly too difficult to bring about for its highly limited utility. A burrowing ability might be something. You can't tell me they wouldn't get a lot of play out of a "disguise kit" that let rogues don various identities for extended periods of times (not 5 minutes after pickpocketing!). I don't have faith in those being game changers but that's the direction I think blizzard should head.

Shuriken throw baseline (if toned down and rebuffed by a talent tier) is one of those things that might at least make other melee envy us. In any event it's a lot more fun than throw.