"Music is the only good thing to have come from Religion." -George Carlin"And what have atheists and agnostics been doing for the past three hundred years? You can't even claim to have written good music! How sad is that?" -Rasq'uire'laskar

Seriously, I really DON'T like George Carlin.

I think your mistake here is, you're confusing religion with it's practitioners. Overall, I'd say that we're just as violent, senseless, and greedy without religion than we are with it.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:I think your mistake here is, you're confusing religion with it's practitioners. Overall, I'd say that we're just as violent, senseless, and greedy without religion than we are with it.

I'm with Rasq on this one. Secular individuals are just as greedy, violent, and crude as religious people. I'd argue that just as much bad has come from atheists and agnostics as theists. Religion isn't the common denominator here. Humans are.

Of course, AJ's statement is outright false anyway. I'm too lazy to list shit, but the Protestant reformation is directly credited with literacy among the masses. Last I checked, being literate was good. Thus, something good came out of religion. Something that even secular people can appreciate.

Anyway, what the fuck is lax talking about on CNN? I don't watch any mainstream news anymore, mostly because I don't watch TV.

I think that what they mean are all the religious wars that happen frequently

although I disagree with that statement, as people will go to war for pretty much any reason, and if we wern't killing one another over which god is more godly then we would be killing eachother for land, wealth, and other goods... which is usually the main factor in war (including religious war) anyways...

rot, i try to watch fox and CNN as much as i can, partly pecause my AP teacher likes to put questions about what happines in the world, and partly because id like to know what shit goes down and when in the world...i just saw this "show" or whatever and had to post becuse there are alot of people that are argueing against a mosque because they are ignorant (they dont have good resons)

I'll see your ignorance and raise you World War I, World War II, all those wars the English and French fought, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Hitler's Slaughtering of the Jews (which was based on race, not religion), everything done by the Soviet Union (which was an atheist state), the regular Dark Ages (which were dark because the Roman Empire fell, if I recall my history correctly), and then add that Christianity founded the basis of the scientific movement and also runs many charitable organizations aiding with disaster relief. Nice try, though. Maybe next time.

Well, I'm glad to hear you diversify. Watching both should help you appreciate how slanted they are in either direction.

laxspartan007 wrote:partly pecause my AP teacher likes to put questions about what happines in the world, and partly because id like to know what shit goes down and when in the world

Eh, that's what the Internet is for.

laxspartan007 wrote:...i just saw this "show" or whatever and had to post becuse there are alot of people that are argueing against a mosque because they are ignorant (they dont have good resons)

Oh, so this program was about the mosque thing near Ground Zero? Eh, I'm not really current on the debate.

I recall that, at least some time ago, the people funding the Mosque refused to prove where the funds were coming from, and with all the people claiming it was being funded by terrorists, I thought it was pretty valid point that if the people refused to show us where the money was coming from, they shouldn't be allowed to build it. And, there is the question as to whether or not it is being built for the specific purpose of being a slap in the face, though I doubt it.

I view this the same way I view stem cell research: there's a perfectly acceptable alternative to embryonic stem cell research (blood stem cell research) that isn't morally gray at all and won't piss people off that is already seeing results (whereas embryonic stem cell research is just hypothetically better), so why not use that? If the mosque can serve the community just as well a few blocks further away, why not build it there?

And how about the Muslim renaissance? The scientific method, modern medicine, modern algebra, our numeral system, preservation of the classics...It brought more advancements to this world than the dark ages prevented.

Moreover: the dark ages were caused by the fall of the Western Roman Empire, which fell without the aid or influence of religion. In fact the Catholic Church was very clearly the entity which held Europe from complete descent into barbarism. It was by the creation of Catholic monasteries that our history was allowed to survive. Later, the reformation drove European (and subsequently any people at some point conquered by Europeans) society forward in a renewal of literacy and the arts.

I should also mention that events such as the crusades were caused not by religion but by greed, intolerance, and the promise of adventure.