what intrigues me is not a single mention of chinese fenders...their a bigger POS than anything else I have ever seen in my life. the bodies dont even look right. at least with the fake LP's the bodies look the same

Well, I'm pretty sure there is a parallel universe somewhere where there is an internet forum full of Fender geeks spotting fakes and trolls suggesting that a chinese knockoff is at least as good if not better than a Squier.

Oh, and the LP bodies are almost always wrong too. Its just harder to spot in a photo.

what intrigues me is not a single mention of chinese fenders...their a bigger POS than anything else I have ever seen in my life. the bodies dont even look right. at least with the fake LP's the bodies look the same

maybe cos we are in a les paul forum???

regarding the japanese lawsuit era guitars - they copied the design too closely, but they never said gibson on the headstock.

__________________
So, if a cow lives in a stable does it mean that it is actually a horse?
OK, now, just because i live in France...

What I can never understand, is if Chinese guitars are so decent, as some would try to convince you, why, when they buy one, does it have to look like a Gibson?

If the chinese guitars are so good,,,, how come we are not all ditching gibson etc and buying chinese? Also why dont the chinese put their own company logo on their guitars, cos if they are THAT good...... why give gibson the credit.

One argument on the difference between a replica and a Chibson I don't think I've read here is Gibson is concerned about their reputation (AS WOULD ANY COMPANY FACED WITH KNOCK-OFFS) and a sub-quality POS like these Chibsons reflect poorly on Gibson when they are thought to be real Gibsons. On the other hand the expensive, hand made replicas do not hurt Gibson's reputation, they glorify it in a sense. Nor do these guitars compete with Gibson sales as they generally cost much more than the "real thing"
Gibson never went after Slash for his Derrig, they even offered to make a signature of it.
If anyone has the right to decide which is tolerable it should be Gibson.

they just buy the decal off eBay or print one on a laser printer and glue it on.

so lame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenG

a sub-quality POS like these Chibsons reflect poorly on Gibson when they are thought to be real Gibsons. On the other hand the expensive, hand made replicas do not hurt Gibson's reputation, they glorify it in a sense. Nor do these guitars compete with Gibson sales as they generally cost much more than the "real thing"

I have owned many Gibsons. I would never buy a counterfeit. Having said that.....most of the video is showing cosmetic and other differences without explaining why one is so much better. I am an old guy, so I go a ways back. In the late 70's and/or 80's there were Hamer USA Specials, they are extremely sought after guitars. they were great. They had a thin veneer maple top on mahogany. Then in the 90's they switched to a thick maple cap for the Special FM (I had one, beautiful and great guitar)....but of course it is common "knowledge" that the earlier version with the thin veneer is better. In fact people used to argue that the veneer was the REASON they sounded better....imagine that. It just gets old. It's great to say solid is better than veneer BUT that doesn't mean it is or isn't true, and you certainly can't tell which one sounds better without hearing it. That goes for a lot of other guitar "knowledge". What people think will sound better means nothing...a blind test, now that would mean something....and 50% would be wrong. If you're old enough...think Coke vs: Pepsi. Nuff said. Now I'll go play my $40 (bought used) 80's Samick...it's a great guitar despite being cheap.

what intrigues me is not a single mention of chinese fenders...their a bigger POS than anything else I have ever seen in my life. the bodies dont even look right. at least with the fake LP's the bodies look the same

To be clear, I didnt mention Fender knock-offs because we're in a Gibson forum, but I feel exactly the same about those - they all need to be sent through a wood chipper.

The guy had a few interesting points, but several I found funny. The use of Kluson style tuners that he thought were cheap and crappy, also seems to be Gibsons favorite type of tuner. I've NOT bought guitars because they had Klusons. However, the cheaper press in bushings used were probably different from most Gibsons that use Klusons...

Pretty sure he was ragging on the quality of the tuners, not that they were Kluson style tuners. The tuners one the fakes are fake too.

I took it differently... when he mentioned the Grovers on the SigT, it seemed to me he was just pointing out the difference, not really commenting on the quality between Real Klusons and Real Grovers. Could be wrong... Either way... doesn't matter. I generally prefer Grovers myself too.

Where is this evidence? Care to provide some links to legitimate research?

Except that Epis are designed, produced, marketed for what they are - quality instruments that are not necessarily Gibson clones, but are more affordable and appeal to a larger crowd. The Chibsons are s**ty visual duplicates that are not meant to perform as musical instruments. Seems like apples and oranges to me.

Interesting video. However a lot of the points he makes against it don't make a whole lot of sense. Regarding the tuners, the chinese copy has vintage style Kluson type tuners. My Gibson came with the exact same type of tuner, the SigT coming with grovers is an exception not the rule. Yes the top isn't a solid hunk of flame maple, but it was a solid hunk of maple with a veneer so tonally it'd be fine.

Yes the build quality isn't, but chances are these are made in the same factories that makes some of the beloved Chinese guitars.

No. They're not.

There's actually a "guitar maker/factory" that specializes in producing counterfeit guitars. And, I highly doubt, that any of the legitimate factories are allowing their workers to work "out the back door"?

As for the "vintage style Kluson type tuners", they are fake, as well. Real Klusons are made in Japan, while the cheap counterfeits are made (funnily enough) in China.

__________________"If LPs were women, Epis would be the gold-diggers; Most of them are beautiful, but just end up taking all of your money!" - Me
(So, I quoted myself! Big whoop! Wanna fight about it?!)

I actually did ask him if the factory could do a custom headstock for me (with a guitar brand name I came up with), and he said they could not. A different division builds the necks with the Gibson logo they put on these guitars - they also do Fender and PRS I believe. I really don't care either way, so I was fine with it.

But maybe you see where I was coming from on the other issues.

Sorry dude... any valid argument you had you lost as soon as you said this. They couldn't put any other name because they all say Gibson, Fender, or PRS?!?!
If Mr. Yaron had a thousand guitars with Gibson on the headstock behind him in a pic, yes that would change my opinion some. But....
That's not his game.
You, on the other hand got a "custom" made guitar made by counterfeiters. How can I prove this? You said it yourself...no other names on headstock...
You made a deal with an obvious (& admitted) counterfeiter).
By your own admission you've done illegal business with Counterfeiters.

But as you've also said, " I don't care one way or the other".
Argument invalid.

I actually did ask him if the factory could do a custom headstock for me (with a guitar brand name I came up with), and he said they could not. A different division builds the necks with the Gibson logo they put on these guitars - they also do Fender and PRS I believe. I really don't care either way, so I was fine with it.

But maybe you see where I was coming from on the other issues.

Bull****.

They manufacture the guitars with blank headstocks. Then, the decals are applied to-order.

Google search "Shandong Huayun Musical Instrument Co., Ltd".

__________________"If LPs were women, Epis would be the gold-diggers; Most of them are beautiful, but just end up taking all of your money!" - Me
(So, I quoted myself! Big whoop! Wanna fight about it?!)

First off Im not a novice player. I've been playing for over 20 years. Been in bands, taught guitar lessons on the side for years, etc. I bought one the first time because I was curious. A buddy of mine (also not a novice player) bought one and I was like...well damn, thats a really nice guitar. So I contacted the guy he bought from and told him I wanted one made to my exact specs - color, fretboard, etc. I get this thing in, and its a 9lb "Les Paul", made to my specs for $300. I was just blown away. So my second one, I knew exactly what I was getting - a $300 guitar, better quality than Epiphone, ~9lbs, made to my color, my pickup cavity choice (P90, hum, single), my fretboard choice, my knob type choice, etc. And I can get a LP...335...Firebird...? Are you kidding me? That was my logic to buy again.

I'd have to disagree with the deceive and trick comments too. That may be how they started out with lots of products. I mean, they recently opened a FAKE Apple store. But with the guy I dealt with, we both knew perfectly well that the guitar wasn't a genuine Gibson. Do people really pay $300 and think its a real Gibson?

Can someone shed some light on how the Chibsons are wrong, but if its deemed a "59 Replica" then its ok? Thats a serious question, because I don't get the logic.

Good questions from you too

For a start, the "deceive and trick" part referred to the purpose this counterfeit business had when it began.Today it has evolved to a sort of unofficial cheap guitar manufacturers.But there still is a problem with people selling these off as Gibsons.Quite a few "fake or not" threads tend to pop up on MLP about shady-looking guitars on graigslist, ebay, etc.And I have heard of many stories of young kids no older than 20 who had barely played a Gibson in their life, had the cash together, and got fooled by someone.You can't really blame them, there are quite a few experienced and not-so experienced guitarists (musically speaking) who have had very few opportunities to try out high-end instruments (let's face it, GC is popular but in many places around the world those small stores who have a Gibson Studio laying around will be rather reluctant in letting you try it out ).So there still is a danger due to these counterfeits (as you imagine, those who sell these guitars as Gibsons don't always charge $300).

As for your replica-chibson point, I must say I do find the logic pretty similar.Scams have been carried out with both, but for me, the difference lies in the quality.59 replicas are guitars of incredible quality, often better than Gibson's own Historic line.If someone decides to buy such a guitar, it's clear he's been a longtime experienced player that knows his instruments and isn't afraid to spend money, even for repairs (but with the quality of these things, they aren't needed very often).It also means that whoever is buying one wants to come close to a vintage guitar he will probably never own.

Buying a Chibson on the other hand, well...That is a little hard for me to understand.If you're a newbie, you can just go out there and buy another LP/any guitar copy that is, in any case, more legal than a Chibson, and probably of better quality.Buying these to "turn them to good guitars" is something I don't understand either.Aside from the fact that what this is (as was pointed out before) is the same as spending more than $5000 on a $4000 guitar (may not sound the same with $400 spent on a $300 axe, but that's pretty much the analogy), there is no reason to support Chibsons.Get an Epi and turn it to a Gibson, you won't be the first one to mod the cr*ap out of his Epi.Get a Squier Strat and make a "Play Loud" out of it.Some people even find guitars in the garbage and return them to playing condition!Why a Chibson?

Some others have said that a Chibson is good for stage use, and that the real ones stay in the Studio.I find myself in great disagreement with this idea, since:

-If you're just someone in the local bar band, very few are going to care if you're gigging with a Gil Yaron or an Epi Special.Many won't even know the name of the guitar you're playing.So, why the need to have that name on the headstock instead of another, especially since you're no Jimmy Page at Madison Sq?

-If you're an upcoming band, you can still use Epi's live.Again, not even half your audience will know wha you're playing with.Just get a decent amp (and maybe some fx) for teh tonez sake, and you are good to gig.

-If you are in a successful band, I doubt you would be unable to maintain some lower-end Gibson(s) for gigging and keeping your $3000 beloved Gibson in its case.But still, about half your audience won't really care.

ings, "you" doesn't refer to you, it refers to anyone)

I will, however, agree (to a point) that this place you bought your guitar from really offers variety :P

I wanted to add here that we all know the market is now flooded with fake Gibbys (& Fenders). You see thread after after thread on Guitar forums like this one asking if something is real, or pointing out that something is a known fake.

So we know people are being fooled into buying knock-offs being sold as the genuine article, and these same buyers often lose a lot of money in the process. The players that knowingly by these guitars are contributing to this by supporting the companies that make them, that alone should be enough reason not buy one, imo.

Also as Malikon has pointed out many times in the past - these guitars DO get re-sold, despite the owners' vehement denials that they will ever sell. People pass away and knock-off guitars are left behind, usually to relatives with no knowledge of guitars at all. Or they get sold or traded, or they get stolen and re-sold.

Lot's of ways they make it into the marketplace. And then people get ripped off. It's that simple, and anyone who argues that they're perfectly fine to buy is only fooling themselves, and a small percentage of guitar players - the poser community. Everyone else knows that they're BS & wouldnt be seen playing one.

Look at this POS. The fret ends are all over the place, the same non-adjustable pickups and funky Bridge. COuld that fingerboard possibly have more pores in it? I don't think so. Anyone buying one based on this pic from their website has to be effing blind or mentally challenged.

-If you're just someone in the local bar band, very few are going to care if you're gigging with a Gil Yaron or an Epi Special.Many won't even know the name of the guitar you're playing.So, why the need to have that name on the headstock instead of another, especially since you're no Jimmy Page at Madison Sq?

-If you're an upcoming band, you can still use Epi's live.Again, not even half your audience will know wha you're playing with.Just get a decent amp (and maybe some fx) for teh tonez sake, and you are good to gig.

-If you are in a successful band, I doubt you would be unable to maintain some lower-end Gibson(s) for gigging and keeping your $3000 beloved Gibson in its case.But still, about half your audience won't really care.

What I don't understand is why someone would spend $400 on a Chibson and not $600-$700 on a used genuine Gibson Les Paul Studio. And, you will always know you are playing a fake that sounds like ****te! If you want something new, get the Epi Tribute + and get a great sounding and looking guitar that has mostly Gibby parts! SMH

What I don't understand is why someone would spend $400 on a Chibson and not $600-$700 on a used genuine Gibson Les Paul Studio. And, you will always know you are playing a fake that sounds like ****te! If you want something new, get the Epi Tribute + and get a great sounding and looking guitar that has mostly Gibby parts! SMH