[QUOTE]Originally posted by dralin:UKFightFreak: are you talking isometrics or plyometrics? I've often heard the advice to be able to squat one and a half times your body weight and deadlift at least your body weight in regards to some plyometric excercises, but never about isometrics. The definitions I'm thinking of for the two have plyometrics going from full extension to full contraction in as little time as possible for explosive power such as a drop jump whereas isometrics would be to push or pull against a stationary object in order to make muscle more toned such as trying to curl a countertop.[/QUOTE]

The reason for the need for strenth for Isometrics is for several reasons. The easiest to explain are that without the strenth Isometrics are not as effective.

Other reasons are that the muscles used in these particular type of isometrics i.e. the isometric split uses muscles that are often neglected completely out of most work out routines.

The final which is the most important is that in any exercises your trunk and legs need to be several steps ahead of hip flexor and adductor strenth - the isometrics will increase streth quickly and could cause damage to the lower back.

In the end the stronger you are the easier and faster is should be to acheive a full split.

Sorry for jacking your post but this is one of my first posts in the Stretching portion of the Fighting Arts. It seems we have much in common with you being in Lethbridge, AB and myself in Fort Saskatchewan, AB. As well we both are in TKD (currently 3rd gup red stripe) and have experienced many pains and stretching problems. I also have been weight training (7 years now) and am 36 years old.

After 2+ years in TKD I still have limited stretching and hence why I am now reading this part of the forum. Your thread is an inspiration to say the least and look forward to more progress on your part. This, I guess, is my first step to admitting I have a problem and am now willing to try to fix it. Keep posting and good luck to you.

No worries on the post-jacking, it's nice to hear from others in my area, or to hear that my ramblings are actually read!

Up until about 5 years ago, I used to live in Sherwood Park, so I know your neck of the woods quite well [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

I have to admit, I've learned a lot about flexibility since starting TKD. There's a startling contrast to what is taught in class, and what I've read in Kurz's book. In a way, my injuries and lack of progress have pushed me to educate myself.

I recently just tested for my blue stripe, so I haven't been hitting my core-stability workout too hard. I plan on kicking it up come January.

*I originally had the goal of complete splits by this time. Not even close. But could it of been done? I believe so. I've achieved my goal of head-high kicks, but when I view some of the younger students, I can't help but feel I need to push harder in this area. I have the knowledge, I now need to apply it. In full.*

Regardling flexibility and age: Our head instructor can do a full split, cold--yet he doesn't teach "Kurz's" method. He attributes it to starting TKD at a young age, although I did catch him once doing side leg swings before a black-belt class. I still need to ask him about this, since there are very few of us in the class that understand anything about dynamic stretching.

hy mike whats up man i need to tell that your posts are really interesting and personally i find them awesome well i have some questions for you (and for anyone who wants to answer) what would happen if i do dynamic stretches three time per day? would i improve in less time?

dynamic stretching is only to kick with no warm up or i will increase the high of my kicks too?

and finally with raising leg front back and side will i be able to increase the high of my roundhouse kick (mawashi geri or dolio chagui for tkd) and my invert turming kick (ura mawashi geri or furio chagui or nako chagui for tkd)?thanks

[QUOTE]Originally posted by aoshi:hy mike whats up man i need to tell that your posts are really interesting and personally i find them awesome well i have some questions for you (and for anyone who wants to answer) what would happen if i do dynamic stretches three time per day? would i improve in less time?

dynamic stretching is only to kick with no warm up or i will increase the high of my kicks too?

and finally with raising leg front back and side will i be able to increase the high of my roundhouse kick (mawashi geri or dolio chagui for tkd) and my invert turming kick (ura mawashi geri or furio chagui or nako chagui for tkd)?thanks

[/QUOTE]

Hiya Aoshi,

Glad you find my posts useful; to best answer your questions on dynamic stretching, check out www.stadion.com . There should be a link there to Mr. Kurz's articles on stretching.

Dynmaic stretching WILL increase your kicking height; in fact, that's the single best way. As to if doing it 3 versus 2 times a day is better, I believe Mr Kurz stated somewhere that there's no benefit. That being said, if you have the time, you can try, and see if it works for you.

For roundhouse kick (mawashi geri, turning kick, etc) in addition to doing front/back/side, try adding cresent kicks to your dynamic regime. I add these at the end of my warmup---they seem to loosen the hips a fair amount.

As for me----not much happening over the Xmas holidays. My belt testing was VERY successful, and Mr J.J. Lee (Our Grandmaster) made some glowing comments about my form to the crowd at th end. Nice way to end 2004!!!

I'll be hitting the gym a lot more now that that is done and the dojang is closed until Jan. Time to work on that proprioception and core stability training.

Well whats the bottom line? Is the book worth buying? It sounds like we are all in the same flexibility boat. Do you think you would have made the same progress without his book by doing a half hour a day of "traditional" stretches?

Funny this has come up here. Here is a message I copied from stadion.com:

What I meant was do static stretching increases lead to higher dynamic leg lifts and ultimately higher kicks?

At present, I alternate relaxed stretching days with isometric stretching days. I do isometric stretches only on days of strength or speed workouts (per Kurz): I follow the Kurz pattern of workouts: technique, speed, strength, aerobic (in my case anaerobic interval training) active rest, rest.

And yes, I followed Kurz's strength buildup exercises, prior to iso stretch training.

I am not saying Kurz' methods don't work for some, I'm saying, they haven't shown me much. For now, I follow Kurz because his methods are rational and, with moderation, will not lead to injuries and may prevent some. But I feel there are major things missing from Kurz's program for me as far as developing high kicks and I would guess I am not alone.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DP07:Funny this has come up here. Here is a message I copied from stadion.com:

What I meant was do static stretching increases lead to higher dynamic leg lifts and ultimately higher kicks?

At present, I alternate relaxed stretching days with isometric stretching days. I do isometric stretches only on days of strength or speed workouts (per Kurz): I follow the Kurz pattern of workouts: technique, speed, strength, aerobic (in my case anaerobic interval training) active rest, rest.

And yes, I followed Kurz's strength buildup exercises, prior to iso stretch training.

I am not saying Kurz' methods don't work for some, I'm saying, they haven't shown me much. For now, I follow Kurz because his methods are rational and, with moderation, will not lead to injuries and may prevent some. But I feel there are major things missing from Kurz's program for me as far as developing high kicks and I would guess I am not alone.[/QUOTE]

Bottom line? Yeah, it sure as hell is worth buying. It's made me look at stretching in a whole different way.

Would I have made the same gains by only doing traditional stretching? I highly doubt it. This is only my opinion, and I sound like a broken record, but dynamic stretching is by far THEE best form of stretching for martial arts requiring high kicks.

One problem with the "Kurz" method is isometric stretching. Either:

A) People aren't fit enough to do them, or

B) People are too lazy to do them.

This is a problem because the majority of advanced gains will happen with isometric stretches. I myself have made very decent gains, but I haven't done any isometrics. Needless to say my static flexibility blows.

If you don't want to spend the 50 bucks, I can understand that. Nothing Kurz says is revolutionary, by any means. He packages the science of flexibility in an easily readable book, that's all. The info is out there already.

Side note: Over the holidays, I hit the gym a few times while visiting the in-laws. One set....ONE set of dynamic stretching, and I was at max height. I'm certian it doesn't take much to MAINTAIN dynamic flexibility.

What I should test is the ability to "kick cold" after doing dynmaic stretching in the morning; then try a high kick later that afternoon---we'll see. I'd hate to pull a ham.

well I`m back to square one. You say you think Kurz book is worth it. The 50 means nothing to me. I just hate to buy a book with basic pix of some guy doing stretches that everyone already knows. It`s like buying a weightlifting book where a guy tells you how to bench or do curls. The whole world already knows this. If you honestly tell me that his book has helped you stretch further than you could have on your own, I`ll buy it and try it. I will also tell you my progress. This is the best post on the whole site, keep being honest!Danny (in the shadows)