Thursday

Hot & Bothered....

Received Thursday, July 2, 2009 For the past 2 years we've had a wonderful nanny. She had to leave us earlier this year due to complications of Lyme Disease. My wife and I made it through the rest of the school year by re-arranging our hours and relying on family to help us out.

Last month she hired a new younger nanny who came to us highly recommended. The kids love her and my wife thinks she's great. Over the past few weeks we've had some really hot weather, she and the kids are out by the pool constantly. I have been working from home, my company has days like this in the summer to reduce the smog. I am finding myself sexually attracted to the nanny. She can really fill out a bathing suit, if you know what I mean. She is doing nothing to lead me on, or at least she is not aware of it. She bends over right in front of me in her suit, or the little t-shirts and shorts she wears. She is only 25 and I know, but I just can't help it. She is a live in and I have fantasies of going into her room and hiding while she dresses.

I want to ask my wife to replace her, but she loves her and so do the kids. My wife is going to want to know why I want her gone? I can't tell her the truth, but I feel wrong about making up something, after all she came to us highly recommended and I don't want to ruin her reputation. As soon as this insane weather calms down I can go back to work, maybe being away will help. HELP ME!We need your nanny sightings. Please send them in to isawyournanny@aol.com. Use your cameras!

Oh, come on! You can't ask a man to not be attracted to a hot 25 year old in a bikini! That's like asking the sky not to be blue! This guy doesn't sound like a pig at all, in fact I commend his maturity. He's not doing anything creepy and he recognizes that the nanny is a professional and that it would not be appropriate to actually act out any of his fantasies with her. He feels BAD about having a crush on her. If you are a married woman and your husband hires a sexy young guy to clean the pool, are you going to be attracted to him? Most likely. But that doesn't make you a bad wife! Just as long as you don't cheat or do anything inappropriate, you're just human for being attracted to a good-looking member of the opposite sex! It's a little unreasonable to ask someone to never be attracted to anyone besides their spouse. Cheating = BAD. Harmless attraction = Normal.

That said, you never know when you're going to have to work with or around attractive people, and it's up to you to control your urges and behavior when it happens. You can't just fire or avoid all the hotties that you come into contact with throughout life. You have to learn to just deal with their presence and act normal. You're a married man and you have made a commitment to your wife, and it is your responsibility to maintain a purely professional relationship with this nanny.

This is normal behavior and nothing to be ashamed of. As long as you keep it a fantasy that's ok. If you have any intention of acting on it, you need to be honest with your wife. I will tell you for sure that if you let your wife know that you are becoming attracted to the nanny she will fire her so fast she won't know what hit her.

This is why I choose not to wear bikini's at work... That and it's IMPOSSIBLE to play with kids in the pool without flashing something when wearing a bikini. Yes, the tanlines suck, but it's my JOB, not tanning time. Ask your wife to talk to your nanny about appropriate WORK attire. But even if she is wearing a grandma suit, she'll still be attractive-- odds are good percentage of nannies are-- so you might just have to stick some ice down your pants and deal with it... Maybe try closing the blinds when they're swimming?

Excellent point, denver nanny. There is a time and place for everything and I don't think it is out of line to ask your nanny to wear a one-piece and appropriate clothing. It is not a fashion show.

One more thing to the Dad: the first step to infidelity is fantasy. Fantasy is ok if it is healthy. But if you ask me, your fantasy of sneaking into your nanny's room to spy on her naked is not a healthy fantasy. I think we can surmise from your post that it is bothering you a great deal and weighing heavily on your mind. This is troubling to me. It does by no means make you abnormal or a bad person, but it sounds like the beginnings of dissatisfaction towards your wife, which is certainly unhealthy.

Ah, Dad. :( Your post makes me sad because it only reiterates the fact to me (I am a pessimist, in case some of you have not noticed) that nobody has a happy marriage. Love never lasts. It's a fantasy in my opinion.

I know I will get flamed for saying that, but I really do believe it. I hope I change my mind some day. :(

Although I think the fantasy aspect of it sounds a little over the boundaries, I guess it's normal. However, I think there are things you, dad, could be doing to avoid it rather than fire her. You are a grown man and you can (hopefully) control yourself. There are millions of attractive people in this world. If she is out by the pool with the kids, don't watch her. If she's prancing around in her bikini or skimpy shorts, leave the room. It almost sounds like you are torturing yourself and can't help but look. Well, you can, and you need to in order to save your marriage, integrity and nanny.

I have a happy marriage, and my husband just commented to me that he realizes how lucky he is because all of his married guy friends are miserable and he isn't. We are married 10 years and are in our 40's. He would be attracted to a young thing too.......doesn't make our marriage unhappy. Now, if he acted on it (but what 25 year old would really want a 40 year old)that would be different. I can tell you that the other mom's and I at the pool gossip about the young lifeguards. Doesn't mean we're not happy.....just still "healthy" if you know what I mean. Stop being such prisses, just control your fantasies.

Maybe, your marriage needs a jump start. Sometimes, after work, money stress, kids. We forget how we were before we got married. Go out together. Not like husband and wife. But like a dating couple. Get all dressed up. Meet at a local restaurant. Don't talk about kids, etc.

Or if your kids are old enough go away for a weekend. Not sure where you live. But Atlantic City, NJ is nice. You can stay at a nice resort. Like the Taj, or Harrahs. Go to the boardwalk. Go gambling, go dancing etc.

I think that there are some really nice, attractive one-pieces and on the same token, there are some very appropriate bikinis too. I think one should just use their best judgement when they are dressing for their nanny job. The suit should be functional for swimming/playing with the children. I don't mean to sound like a prude, but I don't think a nanny job is the place to "flaunt it" even if you do indeed "have it.":)

Maybe you could ask your wife to tell the nanny to cover up a little more when she's at the pool with the kids because you feel a little uncomfortable and you don't want to tell her yourself to make her uncomfortable...Good luck!!

My suspicion is that your either a troll or this is someone who is actually not the husband. There are to many minor inconsistancies in your post. But true or not I will give my opinion.

Either, get over yourself; looking and fantasizing is fine, obsessing is not. If your really a guy above the age of 30, you damn well know this.If you really can't stop obsessing, tell your wife why, and what is going on and go seek marriage counseling. NOTE: Nothing says you cannot go somewhere else to do your work! Get a Lap top and go away from the area, any Coffee shops nearby?

Bending down in front of you? Oh, please, why were you behind her? If you weren't and she is doing the bending thing constantly, then yes, she very well may be teasing you. Just leave the room.

It does not mean his marriage is in trouble becuase he is having these fantasies. It means he got turned on, probably accidentally the first time...he is a man, and as long as he continues to see her it will almost certainly do nothing but build. Anybody know how much self control a man at the boiling point of lust after a prolonged period of build up does? Exactly. And just think about someday when husband and wife have had a terrible fight, or one of those inevitable times in all marriages where people feel less connected rolls around (don't worry Minute Muggle, it always rolls back around again...it's like a cycle, and very typical) while nanny is in the house alone with dad. Recipe for disaster.

Sooooo, even though the suggestion of nanny in amodest suit would have been a good one in the first place, at this point it's toooooo late. The beast has been unleashed and it aint going back in it's cage as long as the stimulus remains. Shorts and a t- shirt, a one piece...it doesn't matter at this point. He's ragingly attracted to her and she could show up in a bathrobe at this point and he would be attracted.

The suggestions that he act as though somebody who comes in contact with people in an everyday work environment would, while good, are not realistic either. Something changes when people are in their home. It's personal, it's private, and people tend to develop closer, more familiar and intimate relationships working in such an environment. Right or wrong, it's just a fact.

He's not a bad guy. A bad guy would have just schemed a way to get the nanny into bed and hide his trail. He's being honest and asking for help.

Unfortunately, nanny has to go...for her sake as well as that of the family.

Dad, you need to just say to your wife that you are feeling attracted to the nanny all of a sudden and, try as you might to avoid her during the day, it is simply impossible under the circumstances. Tell her that you would never want to actually do anything with nanny because you love her (your wife) so much and value your marriage and family above all else...and for that reason you don't even want to be confronted repeatedly in the privacy of your home with somebody you find attractive...because even that, because of the feelings it stirs up, makes you feel like you are somehow "cheating," and that you would really appreciate it if she didn't mind finding a different nanny who is maybe a little older and a tad less attractive.(I sense from your post that that is actually how you feel?)

As a long term wife, I understand that people sometimes feel attracted to other people, but that it is imperative when one feels these feelings to try as best as possible to remove onesself from prolonged, or alone, contact with the object of your desire. As a long term wife, I would also be so thankful if my husband came to me and told me what I said above. Sure, I might feel a bit jealous and insecure about my own looks under the circumstances...but on the other hand I would be greatly relieved to know that my husband was so committed to being faithful that he was willing to come to me and "confess" his struggle.

OH, and no matter how much I or my children loved my nanny, I would let her go...with a great severance package and the best of recommendations. This is a huge warning sign, and it is imperative that the family be protected first and foremost.

I have seen a lot of people who are the victims of being left by a cheating spouse. It happens a lot actually. And many many times it has turned out to be a decent guy who, without actively seeking out an affair, found himself hopelessly smitten with some young thing and the thing spiraled out of control and before he knew what hit him he felt that he was "in love.". Don't let this be you!

I think how the nanny dresses around the children is important. We are past the uniform days, but showing one's breasts or butt is not appropriate. A one piece for sure.

My apologies to all the young pretty nannies who are ladies with working moral compasses, BUT I wouldn't hire a pretty nanny, ever. I ask for the plus size grandmothers. It's not a matter of trust. It's a matter of human nature. And ultimately, you don't know if the nanny has intentions or not. And I don't see how it as fair to put the husband in the position of finding out.

Village, I totally agree with being careful who you hire to be in your home. People are human and attraction is not a matter of will. Why take a chance.My friends in California and I used to snicker when we saw Au Pair after Au Pair arrive from apparently Scandinavian countries to work in our neighbor's homes...young, beautiful blondes, in great shape, with huge breasts typically wearing tight shorts and snug tank tops. The joke was "We can see why they call them 'Au Pairs"...and why the heck would any woman parade that in front of her husband day after day, night after night in their own home..." No thanks.

I know it's not fair to beautiful girls who want to be nannies, and I'm sorry for that. But life is not fair and there are perks and drawbacks to being either beautiful, or not so much. While so many doors are opening for the beautiful most everywhere else, the less fortunate in the looks department can have an advantage in the nanny arena. Such is life.

Good point, Village. I hate to sound rude, but I don't know why any married woman would hire a young, "hot" nanny, especially when her husband has to work from home sometimes. I know you're supposed to trust the person you're married to and all but it just seems like an unnecessary recipe for disaster.

I just told my husband about this post, and he said "I would just put a camera in her room." He was so pleased with his joke that he couldn't stop smiling. I could see him envisioning the hot young nanny!

He is a bit of a dog, but we have a good relationship. Men just have dirty minds. And you all can say what you want, but he really was joking...I hope!!

I agree with whoever suggested going somewhere else to work. Coffee shop, library, ect. Or if you can see the pool and hot nanny from where you are working, shut the blinds! She shouldn't be in your office area in her bathing suit anyways.

But I also agree with mom who said it's too late. She has to go, I don't see this situation getting better. Yes it might get a tad easier in the winter when she is covered up but it's not like a hot girl in a tight winter sweater is a turn off either!

I'm a nanny and I am what you would consider "attractive". I'm in my mid-twenties and never had any trouble getting a nanny job (that I know of!). So, it is kind of offensive to hear that people wouldn't hire an attractive nanny. I've always had a friendly, yet professional relationship with all of my families, and some of them have been younger families as well. I've never had any problems. However, even as a nanny myself, I don't know that I would hire a "hot" young nanny either. LOL. I guess I'm a hypocrite.

I'm a nanny and have to say although it is rarer than tv would have you believe, my boss was all over me. First in subtle ways, than catching himself by grabbing on my waist. Even in the flirting stage, it made my job easier. Alot of bosses will be dicks and give you lots of work to do. I had a phone line installed in the basement where I had a suite. Before the attraction started, he would take the phone bill out monthly and charge me for the EZ pass. After the flirting started, no more deductions. The flirting stafe lasted for about nine months, during which time there was no kissing or anything. I did make sure to bend over a lot and he brushed up against me. I told him things like "your lips looks so soft, you must drive the ladies mad". Most if it was harmless. Then I got a serious boyfriend who started coming over to the house to pick me up for dates, met the children, etc. All of a sudden, deductions were in, EZ pass, phone, even gas allowance overage. Anyway, this is my story and I'm sticking to it. I don't know how sleeping with or flirting with your boss could ever be bad for you. It could only make your job more secure and lucrative unless you were stupid and let wifey in on it. Oh, and the reason I never slept with him? I wasn't attracted to him, but I made him think I was and it was always a possibility. Women, no matter what career you are, you have to make sure every man in the room imagines you that way and thinks that he has a shot with you, even a remote one.

You're a pathetic a-hole. Grow up and keep it in your pants. Real men have no problem doing that. Your juvenile fantasies are not the nanny's problem and I hope she sues you if you decide to let her go for no reason other than you get horny around her.

Catching up. Mom and others, how on earth do you justify firing a professional, capable person who is doing an outstandoing job in all aspects just because a 30 year old going on 12 year old feels the world should bend to his whim, and has decided that because he is horny, someone else must become unemployed? Yeah, healthy grownups have sexuals attractions to good-looking members of the opposite sex (or same gender, depending on their preferences), but what makes this guy's situation unacceptable is that he is basically asking how soon he can give her the boot because HE is made uncomfortable by her presence. That's called sexual discrimination.

I'm with CaliMom on this one. I can't believe some of the responses on here. I can't believe that anyone would think it's okay for the nanny to lose her job over this. Dad is a pig. Period. We all have some level of self control. Good grief. Oh, I'd never make the choice of nanny based on looks. I'd pick the best match for my family. I trust my husband so it wouldn't be an issue. Someof you act as though this Dad's issues are the nannies fault. Maybe all nannies should be required to wear burkas.

OP, I am glad that the criticism is minor. I had expected more, but it's nice that other people realize you are a man...a normal man...let's face it women...guys are turned on easier than women. That said, I am also an attractive woman and in order to get jobs, I purposely look like a fuddy-dud on interviews. I tie my hair in a pony tail, wear minimal to no make-up and dress more for comfort as opposed to style. I think this helps me to get nanny jobs as opposed to if I spent too much time on my appearance. My #1 priority is getting a job and I want to have the same shot as everyone else. Once I did a nightime gig where I was going to go out afterward, and word shorts (not daisy dukes) and Ugg boots and the mother would not stop glaring at my legs...like she thought I was a slut or something just because I exposed my legs!! Dad, any guy in your situation would definitely be turned on..unless he was gay or blind....and I admire your honesty on this one. But this is a timebomb and you need to decide what to do. Either advise nanny to wear a one-piece or like the others said, maybe you could work at a library or other location while kiddos are swimming. Firing her for being pretty would be unkind. And use some of your "pent up hot & bothered" on your wife...even if you are fantasizing about the nanny, keep it to yourself because if you let on one inkling that you are into the nanny, your wife would have every right not to trust you.

My hubby and I have been married for 16 years. He can look til his hearts content, but no touchy! I laugh at him and say what hottie is going to want a nearly 50 year old man with gray hair, and a beer belly! He says "Your a hottie and you want me!" LOL! Work elsewhere, get back in touch with wifey, screw the anti smog days and go to work! What difference is one car going to make? If you are that green then take the bus, or the train!

I don't think you're a pig. But I think it would be TERRIBLE to fire a nanny because of this.

If you bring this up to your wife in the right way, perhaps she can talk to the nanny about covering up, but like other posters have said, no where in the post is there anything about a bikini.

You are an adult. Having fantasies are normal, but acting on them would be awful. Or, how about acting out your fantasies with your wife? Maybe you just have a thing about watching a woman who doesn't know you're watching. Nothing's wrong with a little role-playing. With your wife.

And, as some others have said here, if I were fired because my boss was attracted to me, you better believe I'd be calling a lawyer.

Ugh, and I can't even comment on what JJ said. As Minute Muggle said, I certainly hope you're joking.

I don't think its the nanny's fault and I don't think its fair that she get fired. (Unless she is wearing inappropriate things around the pool and all of that bending over in front of dad is not by "accident." But dad doesn't say that so I'm not going to put that off on nanny as her fault without any evidence.)

However, there is now a family, and the childhood of innocent children, to protect.

Face it those of you who think it is wrong not to hire a very attractive person to spend long hours in your home (especially when your husband will be spending time there with her in your absence)...the man IS going to be attracted to her. They can't help it. It's human nature...just like a person is going to start involuntarily salivating in the presence of a delicious plate of food. Maybe if he's a really strong, good person, he will never act on it. But I, for one, wouldn't even want my husband, no matter how faithful, taking out his lust for our nanny by having extra sex with me and fantasizing that I was her. If that's OK with you, go for it.

I believe in an "at will" state you can fire for any reason, besides race or sexual coersion.Sexual harrassement is making unwanted advances toward an employee and making them either uncomfortable, or causing them to fear for their job if they don't comply. Being attracted to somebody but letting them alone is not a crime. A particularly attractive person who really wants to be a nanny and have a shot at every possible job might take a note form Ella's last post. There's a way to be beautiful and still very, very professional...and in this business, it's probably the wisest course to take on a dress and appearance that lets everybody in the house know for certain that you are interested in doing a childcare job, and nothing more. After all, is there any real "need" to wear your revealing or tantilizing stuff to take care of kids?

Two of my long time babysitters were quite pretty. They could have been sexy if they so desired, but they never came to my house looking like anything other than preppy college students.

And as to the question of what young girl wants a fuddly old guy in his 40's or 50'? That's one's soooo easy to answer..."Where there's money, there's a way." Plus, most women are naturally attracted to successful men...not always for the money, but because they somehow seem more powerful...probably just as in the best hunters got the best cave women. Even among lesser animals, the strongest and most powerful always get the girls.

MY husband once had a secretary that wore tops that exposed her push up bra and portions of her boobs every single day...and not in an accidental or subtle kind of way by any possible definition. It was flagrant and intentional. My teenage son started asking if he could be the one to go up and get dad when we met him for lunch so that he could see some boobie. So I finally asked my husbeand to let her go. His response was, "How can I fire a perfectly nice person for having cleavage?" My response was, "A perfectly nice person wears a shirt to work, and does not unbutton it to her navel every single day. She not 'perfectly nice,' she's perfectly unprofessional." She got gone real fast. Too bad, so sad. Maybe she learned to wear a shirt on the next job...or maybe she got what she so obviously wanted and eventually "traded up" to a wealthy attorney instead of staying saddled with the blue collar husband she held in such disdain for not making enough money for her taste.

In addition, I find it really disturbing that so many posters on this board are blaming the nanny. You want her to wear a burqua? This isn't her problem. The husband, (if this is really a real post, I have doubts too), is talking about going into her room. In what universe is that okay? If he raped her, would she be asking for it?

Men go shirtless all the damn time. Women should be allowed to show a little chest without reducing men to sex-starved idiots. If a little cleavage or a bikini top distracts you that much, seek psychiatric help, because you are not okay.

All of you who think this guy should be ashamed are kidding yourselves. He has done nothing wrong besides have stupid hormonal thoughts and he is seeking help so he WON'T do anything. How dare you act so rudely?!

I think it's a fake post too. But I also think the responses that say, "oh, that's just how men are," are almost creepier than the original poster. When did women's sexuality become such a threat? Why is it the nanny's fault? Is this 1952?

Men do go shirtless all the time, but not at work...in almost every profession I've heard of anyway! anyway. Even jobs that are outside (landscaping, steel work, etc) still require at least 4 inch sleeves due to OSHA regulations. So, even though she may not have been wearing a string bikini, it's still perfectly acceptable to have a dress code for your nanny--and NO that doesn't mean scrubs or anything drastic. And NO that doesn't mean I'm placing all blame on the nanny--dad has a lot of other options besides sitting at his desk and staring. I'm personally wondering where all you moms find your ugly nannies... Can you put that in an ad? "Only unattractive, overweight women with small breasts and butt need apply." I am considered "attractive" and that's why I dress so modestly so that dfad knows not to even think about going there and mom has more respect for me: sports bra and t-shirts instead of the push-up bras and tini tanks that I wear in my off hours. And no, I don't live in...

There are alot of attractive business women, that work with men all day. If you ever go into N.Y. you will see this. What are they supposed to do? Wear skirts down to their knees and button their shirts up to their chin? Just so the man will not look at them??

Denver nanny. Great post. I maintain that a nanny can be pretty and dress in a way where she seems only pretty and not overly sexy, no matter what her figure. Do this at work and it sends the proper message. There is no need for short shorts, tank tops, or other than very modest one piece bathing suits while entertaining kids. This is also practical, since young kids tend to pull bikini tops out of place during the course of normal water activities.

new jersey mom,please reveal the names of these places where New York business women dress in bathing suits and bending over in front of the boss is common place. There's quite a difference between pretty/sophisticated and sexy/lots of skin showing.

I just re-read the original post and I take back my original opinion that the nanny is completely innocent.

"She bends over right in front of me in her suit, or the little t-shirts and shorts she wears."

How is that innocent? Any normal 25year old knows better than to bend over in short shorts, tank tops and bathing suits (and should ideally not do it no matter how she is dressed)directly in front of a man. To do so...especially repeatedly...is almost certainly intended to provoke arousal.

Really. How many of you can say that you repeatedly (or ever really) bend over in front of men while wearing skimpy clothing, thereby excessively exposing your butt and boobs....and that it is completely innocent if you do? Not likely.

You people are nuts. How can the nanny avoid occasionally bending over? She's working with young kids. I bend over 50 trillion times a day picking up things my kids have dropped. If you guys think it's "normal" for a man to be having fantasies about freakin' HIDING IN THE NANNY'S CLOSET, I don't even know what world you live in.

BY the way, Cranky, you seriously couldn't tell that the Burka comment wsa sarcastic? Really? @@

Hopefully, my future daughters will realize that being known for WHO you are instead of what cup size you have is very important and that there is a time and place to wear revealing clothing--and that place is not at WORK. chillin at the pool on her day off, out on the town--wear whatever you feel is appropriate.

I, meaning the mommy of the situation, would stay home one day and watch the nanny. If I felt uncomfortable about the way she dresses, I'd buy her a very pretty, feminine bathing suit cover-up. Old Navy has some very nice ones. I would also get her a cute polo shirt/Bermuda shorts combo as a "welcome aboard" gift. If I felt she dressed appropriately, then I'd let it go and hope my husband is mature enough to handle it. If not, then I'd ask hubby to head to the office.

I don't know, WTF, but I managed to raise three children, going to the pool virtually every warm summer day since the first one was about three years old, and I managed to not bend over in my suit in front of other pool patrons...ever. Bend at the knees to pick stuff up...it's better for your back and makes for great butt muscles too...and won't leave people wondering about you whether you are just carefree and oblivious, or are actually trampy and trying to attract strange men.

I wouldn't want anybody to ever wonder that about my daughter, or about me. And if the nanny in question was my daughter and I ever saw her bend over like he describes, there would be a major "discussion" about it.

Not that he needs to take it so far as to think about watching her undress in her room, or that I think that's acceptable, but hey, that's the nature of men's fantasies...they come up with these scenarios to envision....

I'm from the beach and I'm all for bikinis...still wear them. But I wouldn't do it on a job. I would be far more interested in being viewed as professional. I was once, around the age of 20, offered a free membership at an expensive yacht club if I would agree to spend a certain amount of time sitting around the pool in my bikini and chatting up the old dudes. I didn't consider taking it for even half a second...sounded just one step below prostitution to me...enticing older men to ogle my body for financial gain. Ewwwww.

The bottom line is, you can be as idealistic as you want to...but just because you believe something ought to be so doesn't mean its a reality.

If you think women "deserve" to wear skimpy stuff and not have men look at them or think nasty thoughts about them, then go ahead and insist all you want that that is so. Or insist that they are pigs for doing it. But that doesn't do anything to change this practice that some of you so disdain, does it? Personally, if I don't want to be ogled in a sexual way, I know how to keep from becoming that target. Make a choice and live with it.

Just like the Womens Libbers in the 60's who wanted to be thought of as equal to and as intelligent as men...so they burned their bras. Yup. Great idea...'cause we all know that women without bras are automatically considered super extra intelligent and competent professionals.

Oh what the hell? Just go for it! Go and scramble her brains! Oh and guess what? After you jump her bones and scramble her brains you may or may not be satisfied. Is she really worth trading everything you have now? The forbidden fruit is always tempting but trust me..once you have a bite or a couple bites you will be right back where you started...bored! If I slept with every hot thing I saw out there I would have a rash! The grass always seems greener on the other side 'til you get over there you realize it's the same crap just different crap! That's my two cents.

I'm assuming none of you ever breastfed in public, because, you know, god forbid! Breasts are slutty! Obviously, only tramps have cleavage!

I find it really disturbing that it is still socially acceptable for men to just "be that way," and women must "act like ladies and be modest," in order to keep male urges in check.

Personally, I'm raising my kids to think there's nothing wrong with the human body and that they, and they alone are responsible for their self-esteem and their self-control. This is how I was raised, and I've managed quite well, thanks.

Fantasies+desires=ego. Ego and superego battle each other, conscience is the mediator, and pretty soon, you are making advances toward your nanny.

How do you think your nanny would feel if and when you started coming on to her? I, as a professional, would feel uncomfortable if any one of the fathers in my classroom did this. Secondly, how do you think your wife would feel if you did come on to the nanny and the nanny said something to her? As a woman, if my nanny came to me and told me that my husband came on to her, I would be upset and constantly have my guard up-I would monitor the times they interacted, looking for signs of him cheating.

Then again, if your nanny was a professional she would know how to dress for work. Your desires are normal for now. If you do decide to pull a Jude Law on your wife, you don't deserve your wife and your nanny needs to find a new job. But if the nanny marries you, she will be set for life. Perhaps this is why your nanny wanted to be a nanny? To snag a rich man? I would love to nanny for John Cena....lol

Cranky,Dressing modestly and appropriately for work does not make a person "ashamed of the human body". No one is saying that any woman should have to wear skirts down to her feet and long-sleeved turtlenecks all the time. There is a difference between dressing cute, sophisticated, even sexy, and dressing like a slut. (Though I don't know why anyone would want to wear their cute, sophisticated or sexy clothes while working with children...it's just like asking to get giant magic marker or food stains)

Bottom line, it's not about catering to men. It's about having respect for yourself. Do you really NOT want your daughters to be modest? Do you want them to show up to their future jobs with their breasts hanging out, their bellybutton showing, and their butts peeking out of their Daisy Dukes? No one's saying that girls who don't wear, as someone else put it, burkas, are "asking" to be treated a certain way or harrassed, but let me put it this way: if you dress like a professional, people will treat you like a professional. If you dress like a ho, people will treat you like a ho. Pretending otherwise will not do your kids any favors.

Also, I agreed with Mom when she asked how many girls really INNOCENTLY do things like bend over in front of their male bosses while wearing tiny shorts? Now, I'm pretty young myself and I would have never done this in front of any of the dads while I was working because I did not want their attention. I did not wish to be viewed as a sex object, only as someone who was taking care of their children. So somehow I still managed to dress like a young, hip person without letting it all hang out. It is definitely possible.

Jumping ahead once again, but CrankyB said it. Come on, you people can't be serious if you are really dragging out the old "face it, men have higher sex drives/they can't help it/that's just the way they're made bullshitccording to that logic, you must then agree that women should all be SAHM's, or at the very least, stick to gender apppropriate professions like wet nurse, or preschool teacher, because they're just "made" differently, so their female brains aren't really equipped for things like engineering, management, or sports.

Again, nowhere does it say the nanny is wearing anything other than shorts. So all this "no string bikinis" is just dumb. For all we know, she's already wearing shorts and a baggy t-shirt. And somehoe it's still HER fault that this guy who is apparently old enough that he was allowed to get married and produce shildren thinks he should be allowed to reduce a working professional to unemployment or worse just because HE gets hormonal around her.

And, since we're on the old "it's the nanny's fault for wearing shorts to the swimming pool", then of course it follows that any women whose SO beats her is to be blamed beause she obviously made the mistake of not behaving appropriately in his presence, thereby arousing his male instincts and earning the predictable results. Because, men are "just like that" so we have to behave like "ladies" to avoid them doing "male" things like spying on us naked, raping us, firing us unfairly, or beating us.

Mom, gender-based discrimination IS illegal. I'm surprised you seem so unaware of that. and if getting FIRED simply because your boss is sexually attracted to you does NOT constitute sexual harassment, wtf do you think doea??

mom, no one ever actually "burned their bras" in the 60's except in a stunt that was staged by a newspaper. Somehow that image has become the classic backlash symbol for "feminists are stupid!" but I thought you'd be interested to know that it was never a sincere expression of feminist ideology.

This reminds me of a story. I'm not Mom, but whatever. I was young when I first became a nanny. I moved out here from Iowa to be a nanny for a very athletic, nice looking couple who had just had their first baby. He was a boy and I started when he was 8 weeks. Mom went back to work and Dad took his paternity leave to overlap Mom's 8 weeks and my first two. We got a long great. The father was real protective of the child and showed me how to bathe the baby and wash him and hold the bottle so air didn't get in. I was, at the time a chubby virgin. One day I put the baby down for a nap and the father called out to me. He was in the laundry room so I walked right in. He was standing there with his shorts around his ankles. He handed me a box of baby wipes and said, "clean me". I was shocked and startled and couldn't look away. He reached for my hand, placed my hand on the box of baby wipes and said clean me. I hesitated. He pulled out a baby wipe put it on my hand and brought my hand to his penis. He then gave me direction. At first the direction was very technical. Lift the testicles and clean underneath them. He handed me more baby wipes. He was now, at a full state of arousal. He held my hand as he kicked off his shorts and laid knelt on the floor, then he layed back and I was standing between his knees. He told me to bend down. I was nervous and kind of grossed out. The worst part is, well that I did it and then that he put his feet in the air and spread his butcheeks and kept giving me commands. I won't go into details. It was one of those unbelievable moments. I am not the sort of person you can imagine getting caught up in something like that. But since I didn't know what to do, I just went along with it. (Oh and I ended out leaving the house in the middle of the night the very next night and never contacting them again).

newsflash,Thanks. I didn't actually know that. I was born in the 60s and so was not a part of the whole thing...but I have always puzzled over the benefit of ladies burning their bras!

Cali,Your examples are too overboard and inconsistent with the intent of the other comments to comment on. I didn't read anywhere where people said it's great that men are like that...but it is a biological fact that they are wired to be aroused by visual stimulus. We can PC up the way we expect people to behave in civilized society...which is typically a good thing...but that in no way affects the animal nature of human beings at their core. Most men do control their urges...but that doesn't mean if they see bare boobs bulging out of the top of a blouse or bare butt peeking out of shorts they are going to be able to "PC" their way out of the feelings of arousal that will inevitably follow. And bending over in front of them...forget it!

Letsgetreal, there is NO difference in your arguments that a young attractive nanny is at fault if the dad decides he's too horny at the sight of her so she must be fired. Just as an abusive guy will argue that his wife should understand his temperament better and behave accordingly so she doesn't "cause" him to act violently. And, since the OP has stated that the nanny wears shorts and t-shirts around the swimming pool, and you are somehow trying to argue that she is dressing innappropriately for her job, what *would* you suggest she wear around the pool? Are you going to say that a one-piece bathing suit is less revealing than shorts and a t-shirt? Wouldn't excessive clothing hinder her movements in the event she needed to jump in to rescue a child who needed help in the water?

And mom, tell me again, if being fired from your job simply because your boss finds you "too attractive" is not sexual harassment, what is? Your argument would mean that there has never been an actual case of sexual harrassment of any women who wore a suit and pantyhose to work and buttoned her blouse properly, because apparently sexual harrassment *only* happens to women who dress inappropriately for the job?

Anon nanny story, thank you for sharing your story. Some here apparently believe that you must have been dressed inappropriately for your job, and that was the reason the guy behaved as he did. Because, he's a man and that sort of behavior is simply to be expected.

It isn't the nannys fault and his fantasies would happen if she wore a burka. Hopefully we are long past the time of blaming a woman for being assaulted because she dressed provocatively. I'm rather surprised at the comments here that talk about her bending over (it's called childcare) or wearing shorts or a bathing suit at a pool. Huh?

Dad needs to own up to his attraction (normal) but make sure it stays 100% in his head. The millions of men who look at porn bear that out. All men would be attracted to a young hot woman. Not a big deal.

Self control is the hallmark of adulthood. Dad is the adult...act like one.

Cali,Is wife beating a basic, uncontrollable male instinct, as arousal at visual stimulus is? We're simply talking about the urges he feels inside...which this dad has not acted upon. A rapist or a wife beater is a criminal who engages in a violent behavior by choice. A man who sees a young thing repeatedly bending over in front of him wearing a swimsuit, short shorts, or a tank top and is aroused by it is simply a human experiencing biology at work...absolutely beyond his control. Yes, he has a choice about whether to engage in elaborate fantasies...that's a conscious act...and he needs to try and stop those immediately.

And nanny has to go. Now.

The guy said nanny is wearing small shorts and tiny tops and bending over...repeatedly at that...in front of him. That's unprofessional behavior and grounds for dismissal in at at will state. But legally they don't have to tell her why they are firing her anyway...and only a complete moron would tell her that she is being fired because the dad is sexually attracted to her.

They'll let her go, hopefully give her a nice severance...and maybe the mom will be benevolent enough to help her out by giving her some advice about professional attire and behavior so this doesn't happen again.

Maybe some girls act this way innocently (in which case I have to wonder...did these girls grow up with mothers? ugh!)...but a lot of others do it on purpose to arouse men, for a wide variety of reasons...most of them not so honorable. Now OP is in a situation where something is happening that is potentially causing a serious threat to his family...and he has no way of knowing whether she is innocent, or one of "those girls." The only way he will know for sure is if one day she comes on to him...and that could end in disaster given his feelings.

Dr Know,Let's turn the tables. Let's say your wife is hopelessly attracted to your pool guy...the one who comes shirtless and exposing his great abs...so much so that she is engaging in an elaborate fantasy life about him that is intense enough to personally cause her great concern.

Would you say she simply needs to control herself, go on fantasizing, as long as she controls herself like and adult and doesn't actually act on it? Or owuld oyu more tend to say, "Uh, let's just get a new pool guy and eliminate the whole worry?"

If HE or SHE is engaging in a fantasy life that causes him or her "Great Concern," he or she should work on that. Have a fantasy and move on....if he's obsessing, he needs to stop obsessing. Fantasy/attraction does not mean uncontrollable obsession.

I mean, how on earth do people go through their days with all the attractive, physically fit people in the world?

I agree with Mom and Let's Get Real on the basics of this issue. Attraction is normal. OP is acknowledging his attraction is becoming too distracting. I do think that perhaps the OP should have considered the issue of having an attractive woman around the house and been better aware of his limitations, thus avoiding hiring someone who would become a distraction. But he did not forsee this and now he and his wife are in a difficult situation.

I definitely think it's time for a new nanny. I would look at as she is simply a poor fit for this family due to the disruption that has resulted, regardless of anyone's intent. I see no reason to even bother assigning blame. OP and his wife misjudged whether the nanny would be a good match for them. She is not. Same as if they hired a nanny who was a naturally gregarious, loud, or outspoken woman - and later found that their family and personalities fit better with someone quieter or more soft-spoken. The nanny's temperament isn't her "fault" any more than her physical appearance, but either one could lead to an unhappy working relationship.

OP can terminate nanny with excellent severance and references, and simply tell her that it was not working out and is no fault of hers. I see absolutely no reason to continue employing a nanny whose presence is causing discord in the home environment. This sort of defeats the whole purpose of having a childcare provider with whom you feel at ease.

Mom: Actually, yes, I would say it is fine for the wife to fantasize about the pool guy. Who cares? I certainly don't think firing the pool guy OR the Nanny is the solution. Nor do I think they should be more "modest". Girls no longer wear bloomers at the beach and many pool guys just happen to have great muscles.

You seem to be too concerned with the young hotties and how they appear. Desire is natural and not dirty. Acting on it when you are married to another is the problem.

I suspect that the post is fake. Assuming it is not, I think that the nanny should go with a good reference. We just have one side of the story so it is hard to tell whether the nanny is a first-class schemer or the dad a lecherous old man. I think the wife should be told in some way or another. And I am all for dressing appropriately, but on the "men will be men" and "dress modestly comments", I have to say that I fully support Cali mom.

Yes, men having fantasies is COMPLETELY normal. I know my husband does, he tells me about it for crying out loud! That's fine, I check out men all the time! It's whether or not you act on it that makes the difference.

But, in no way shape of form does it seem to me that the nanny is at fault here. He is likely envisioning her bending over and flaunting it in a way that is not entirely actual. Like in movies when the man sees the hot chick in slow motion shaking her hair and what not.

I had to have a man I worked with fired for sexual harassment, unfortunately. I won't go into the whole story but it was horrible and scary. When they interviewed him before firing him, he actually said that I showed him my breasts. All I can think is perhaps I bent over and my shirt hung down too far or something. But in his mind I was blatantly showing my body parts to him.

JJ, you are dispicable (sp?). As far as women have come making themselves on par with men, and you believe that only your sexuality can assure you employment, sad, sad, sad. Keep your advice to yourself. I have experienced many job interviews, and nine times out of ten a man will hire me and a woman will pass. But that didn't have a DAMN thing to do with how I acted or dressed.

I guess I will never have this problem in my current job; yes, I am an attractive nanny, but I work for 2 gay dads! I get the idea they wanted someone who could play the yummy mummy role! Anyway, completely off topic.....

Lola,I disagree. We have no idea whether the nanny is flirting too, or if this is all in dad's own head. I wouldn't question her role at all except for the repeated bending over. He does not say he imagines this, but that she does it...and implies that this makes him kind of wonder if she's in on it too. Since he mentions that, it makes me look for other possible clues...to which I am next drawn to his comment about the tiny tops and shorts. Tiny tops and shorts are not proper work attire IMO. Some may disagree. That's everybody's perogative to have individual opinions about what is and is not appropriate to wear to work. I tend toward the conservative. Not that I don't siren it up at the right times...but the key words to me there are "right times." (BTW, those women in the movies who shake their hair back and forth after emerging from water...usually wearing something tight, and now wet..are designed specifically to arouse men. I mean, who really does that in real life? (Hmmm..just like all of the accidental bending over.) And so that is not a good example of a man becoming piggishly aroused at some poor innnocent woman just doing something any normal person would do.)

I think when people are younger they tend to be more idealistic and have more spunk and fire about how things ought to be as opposed to how they are. Then as we live in the world longer and longer, we start to admit to ourselves that not everything is so black and white and that there are shades of gray...some of them not so pleasant or fair seeming "on paper," but nevertheless a part of reality....that we can either ignore, or learn to accept as reality.

I remember when I very young my future MIL said to me that she felt that the young girl who was raped by Mike Tyson shared a little bit of culpability for going to the room of a man she didn't know late at night. I was completely outraged at that idea, because, as I still believe today, nobody deserves to be raped, ever, no matter what. But now, so many years later I can look back and at least understand her point...which was, I believe/hope, that even though the girl was in no way at fault for, or deserving of, being raped because, again, nobody ever deserves that, she could have made the chances of that happening to her smaller by not consenting to go alone to his hotel room in the first place. (This example is slightly flawed to me because of his celebrity staus, because I myself would not expect a celebrity, who could be so easily identified later, to commit an assault...so that probably gave her some comfort too. So anyway, don't take the specific example too seriously, but more of as a general type example for the purposes of my point.)Over the years my opinion has changed from "OMG! How could you say that? It's all his fault and none of hers!!," to "No way is it her fault. It's still ALL his. But, even though it's not her fault, she could have lessened the chances of being victimized by not going to the hotel room of a strange man in the first place." Should she have RIGHTFULLY even HAD to think that way? NO WAY IN HELL! But, unfortunately, right and reality do not always coexist in our world.

In high school I had some punk rockers demolish my brand new car with their big boots. My dad got really mad at me, which completely shocked me, since I was a completely innocent victim in the whole event. Then he said (paraphrased), "Where did this happen?" (It wasn't the best part of the city.) Then he said, "You're the one who took the car there, right? When you choose to go to bad places, you accept a certain risk, and this time you lost." I had to admit he was right. After that I took the position that I do have at least some measure of control over what happens to me and that I shouldn't just go around with blinders on, saying to myself, "They have NO RIGHT to do anything to me, so they won't." I learned from that to try to asses situations and behave based on the specific factors of each situation.

Bad things happen all the time to very innocent people. We can't prevent them all, but we can do our best to lessen our chances.

Just like that one pool nanny complained about men ogling her at the country club. Is it OK for them to do that? NO. But not wearing something revealing or bending over in front of them lessens her chances if it happening to her. Continue screaming until you're blue in the face about how it's NOT FAIR if you want. No, it's absolutley not. But not being fair doesn't make it not a part of reality.The bottom line is, unfair though it may be, if you wear something skimpy men are probably going to look a little extra long at you. You can assert your right to wear it and accept the staring as part of the price...or, if the stares are too unlivable to you, put something on that will minimize the amount of skin they can leer at. Unfair that we have to make that choice? Yes. Reality? Yes.

oh god a guy is going to look no matter what. If a woman is in a one piece or two piece. And whats wrong with wearing a two piece if you feel like it? I see moms that work hard for their figures why can't they wear a nice suit. Either one or two piece.

And about all this bending over stuff. She was playing with the kids! I mean do you really expect the person to just stand straight the whole time.

stupid reasoning,It's not reasoning, it's reality.I myself wear a two piece and accept the extra looks. And yes, I do believe it's possible not to bend over in front of a man, even while caring for kids....particularly while wearing something you have to realize is going to expose your breasts or bare butt directly to him if you do. A woman in bermuda shorts and a tee shirt with a reasonable neckline can probably bend over to pick up a child with a far different reaction from observers than one in something very skimpy.

The real question is: If you're caring for kids and feel that bending over repeatedly is inevitable throughout the course of the day, WHY would you even want to wear something to work that would expose your breasts or butt every single time? I don't wear a miniskirt to go horesback riding, even when it's hot out. I'm just saying.....

And please, this is a hot 25 year old girl? To assume that she is not the recipient of much privelege/attention as a result her beauty, and that she is unaware of this fact, is to assume that the is so completely unaware of her surroundings that she would have to be dumb as dirt. Pretty girls get treated better than other people...and they know it. Duh.

Why do people choose the clothing they do? Presumably to look a certain way...whatever way they choose to present themselves is how they are going to choose their style of dress.

Short shorts and tiny tank tops are almost always (if not always...I'm allowing for the occasional dolt here) purchased with the idea of looking sexy. If a beautiful 25 year old is unaware of this fact, and is wearing them to WORK without any idea of their looks...and is able to bend over in front of a man repeatedly wearing such things without even a single thought or realization as to how it looks...well then she is far too dense and dingleheaded for her own good...let alone the good of the kids she is supposed to be looking after.

Those of you who are looking for cause, all the while suggesting that she is unaware of her actions...there's your "cause" right there....

But don't be fooled for a minute into believeing that a girl wearing those things is unaware of the affect they have on men. Good grief! It's the whole reason for dressing that way in the first place! There is NO OTHER REASON...save for complete lack of awareness of the world around them...in which case, again, she would be a bad childcare choice.

I forgot who brought it up, but how dos breatsfeeding in public have anything to do with this topic?? Biiiiig difference. NYC mom-- love your post.

On another note: Today is the 4th, and I'm wearing a tiny pair of shorts and tiny, boob showing tank top to a bbq... And I enjoy the appreciative looks I get dressed like that. However, am I--or my boyfiend-- going get pissed because the other men stare or if they get drunk and say something innapropriate? NO--I' dressed specifically to attract men's attention. Am I going to bend over in front of these men, thus encouraging comments-- of course not. I want to viewed as sexy--not slutty. And acting like a lady can help prevent encouraging people--men and women alike-- from viewing me that way. even when dressed to show some skin. And please keep in mind that acting like a lady does not damage all the advances the women's lib movement made for women... Do you want men to respect as us equals in the workplace-- and evrywhere else-- or would you rather them look at us as sex symbols who prance around the office... And then wonder if it was the tits falling out that got us the promotion, or or our actual abilities...

And as far as the pool boy, what if that pool boy lived in your home, if your wife was always home with him, he wore a speedo and was constantly bending over in front of you wife? You might not fire him, but I bet you'd watch them pretty closely...

Speaking of appreciative looks, I'm a 43 year old female and every other weekend, my children are with their father. I relish getting dressed up semi skanky and using what I have to attract some much needed attention. I even found these iron on nipples. They look exactly like nipples and you iron them on your bra, so when you wear a tshirt your nipples show through even though your bra is providing adequete support. You can even sew a tic tac in the bra to make the nipple projectile.

Sorry to jump ahead again but this thread is very active and I'm getting ready to go out w/my family.

One more time Mom: It IS her job to supervise multiple children at a swimming pool, and be ready and able to jump in and assist them if need be. Are you suggesting the appropriate work attire for this job situation is baggy jeans and a large t-shirt? Complete with tennis shoes and socks, just in case this guy has a foot fetish? OP did NOT say "tiny tops". he said "little t-shirts and shorts". which would cover her up more than a "modest one piece" that everyone keeps going on about.

Seriously, everyone gets mad but adults learn not to hit people who make them mad. Everyone gets horny but adults learn not to get in bed with everyone who makes them horny. Why are accomodations and excuses being made for the shortcomings (so to speak) of one guy who apparently has the emotional maturity of a 12 year old? If this guy can't see an attractive young woman in shorts and a t-shirt without fantasizing about either stalking her or firing her, and a woman can't cope with the thought that her husband appreciates the sight of an attractive young woman in shorts and a t-shirt, then they BOTH have major issues and need to grow the hell up.

And since you are elaborating on the given details in your own mind, creating this alternate scenario where the hussy is strutting around in a thong bikini and practically spreading her legs in the guys face, I'll say that the impression I get is that he's spying on her from all corners of the property, peeking through the curtains and masturbating as he watches her doing the WORK of caring for his children. Why isn't he paying more attention to getting his own work done than trying to sneak peeks at the nanny's butt all day?

Tell me, if your daughter got a job as a lifeguard, and was let go after 2 months because her boss just thought she looked unbearable cute up there on the lifeguard platform in her "little t-shirt and shorts" all day, or in her "modest one piece", and fired her so he wouldn't have to be bothered with controlling his sexual urges, would you say it was fine and dandy and not really sexual harrassment as long as she ccouldn't prove that was the reason for being fired? Remember, you've argued many times that taking a handful of paper clips from the office cabinet is the same as embezzling millions of dollars beccause in either case, it's stealing, and it doesn't matter the extent, it's still illegal. So how can you now argue that the dad breaking the law is OK as long as his victim is unaware she's been victimized illegally? Are you still in denial that firing someone simply beause you find yourself sexually attracted to them IS a form of sexual harrassment?

Cali,I hope the poor girl IS wearing a bathing suit while swimming. Unless it is particularly revealing (and dad doesn't say it is), I have no issue with it.

The bending over is over the top...especially repeatedly. And if she cannot take care of the children without doing so all throughout the day, then, yes, she needs to cover up better. If you're saying she MUST bend over in dad's presence to take adequate care of the kids, then, yes, I'm saying she is wearing the WRONG thing to WORK.When I wear a very short skirt or low cut top I remain aware of what I am wearing as I go about my plans and, if necessary, move about a little more cautiously in order to keep things covered in public. I don't randomly lean over showing by butt and boobs without regard to the outfit I have chosen for the day and then call the men who might look at what I am placing on display for them "pigs", or accuse them of being twelve year olds. I would assume they might easily think I was doing it on purpose for their benefit, actually.

Bravo to the moms who are going out looking "hot" today and are not afraid to appreciate being admired for their killer legs or shapely butt! Here's to looking at you!!! My husband and I just got back from shopping for some cute little white shorts to wear to our party for the evening. They look good and I, too, will think a silent "thank you" to any admirers. I will NOT, however, be wearing those same shorts to church in the morning...even though I might have every "right" to do so.

WTF, you can be just as cool in a pair of shorts that cover your butt as you can in a pair of daisy dukes. And really, most tank tops are decent enough...IF YOU'RE NOT REPEATEDLY BENDING OVER IN FRONT OF MEN IN THEM (although I would shy away from wearing one to most jobs...if I wanted to be seen purely as a professional, that is.

Anyway, I'm going out to the pool in my bikini now, so gotta go.

Bottom line: Wear whatever you choose, ladies. It's a free country. But please tell me that you at least DO realize that if you are displaying your boobs and butt. Men WILL be looking. All varieties of them...fat, short, hotties, pervs, and just plain normal regular dads..and granddads too! (They may be old, but they ain't dead...and if you're a puttin' on a show, they'll sure as shootin' be tuning in!!)

Sure, Mom. However if they are NORMAL they won't be obsessing over hiding in my bedroom closet like peeping tom stalkers and none of them will have the power to fire me because they're too idiotic to be able to control themselves.

Seriously, Mom. I can't believe you consider the OP to be an accurate reporter or what the nanny is doing. Of course he's making it out to be the nanny's fault so he doesn't have to take a single iota of responsibility for himself.

I noticed you didn't answer CaliMom's scenario about your daughter working as a lifeguard. Would that be okay with you? It sure as hell wouldn't be okay with me where my daughter is concerned.

It's all a slippery slope. If you blame the nanny for this, then your another step on the ladder away from blaming the rape victim for her rape. I can't believe that you don't see that. When you wear your sexy clothing out tonight aren't you just asking for it? Guys have urges you know. Maybe you should cover up more in order to avoid being raped. I'm just saying...

Actually, the lifeguarding scenario that Cali Mom brought up is a totally different situation. First of all, that situation involves a man creepily leering at a young girl, not an adult like this nanny who, for all we know, COULD intentionally be trying to seduce the father. What if she has an attitude like JJ's? "Sleep with the boss, get tons of perks!" Second of all, the girl's lifeguarding boss would never be stupid enough to say he was firing her because he was attracted to her. There would be no way for her to know or prove that was actually the reason she was fired. She would just have to ASSUME that was the reason. So how could she or her parents "do" anything about it? Third of all, working as a nanny is totally different from any other job. I've thought about this some more and I've decided that a family should not have to stick with a nanny who is a bad fit for them or who makes them uncomfortable, as is the case in this situation. He's not going to throw her out on the street like a jerk, he wants to write her a nice reference letter and give her a good severance package. I think it's good that he cares so much about not risking his marriage.

And by the way, for all of you saying "He's such a creepy stalker for wanting to hide in her room!" He's not ACTUALLY planning on doing that, he just THINKS about it. Give me a break. Some people's fantasies are a little more wild than others, and I would say that compared to some I've heard, this sounds pretty tame. And again, he has not actually DONE anything to pursue this nanny, nor is he planning on it. He recognizes that he does not want to be thinking these thoughts about her.

WTF,First, I'm not blaming the nanny (although I can understand, given my overall position on the entire subject, why you might think that.) We don't know her mindset at all. My larger point is that, if she were dressing completely appropriately and not bending over, I would not even consider the possibility that she MIGHT be a nanny who thinks like JJ. Now there is room for doubt...just as there is any time somebody dresses/behaves in a way that might, by some reasonable people, be considered overtly sexual.

AS for the pool scenario...If it were my daughter (who I would absolutely allow to be a lifeguard...but then our pool has them in respectable Speedo suits, both one and two piece styles...but all within reason modesty wise) I would have two conflicting thoughts if she got fired because the boss was having gross sexual fantasies about her that he was seriously beginning to become concerned about being able to contol indefinitley:

1) The rational side of me would say, "That's totally not fair to her." (If she had been entirely innocent of any poor choices that could have realistically contributed to it, that is.)

2) The realistic side of me would think, "I'm grateful that she is away from that potentially dreadful situation, and thank God he had the decency to remove her before something very bad could possibly happen. I'm sorry it happened, and it's not fair, but nothing is worth the chance of my daughter being taken advantage of in a way that might take her a very long time to recover from psychologically."

As for my dress this evening, my shorts are neither too long nor too short. They are exactly where a woman my age can still wear "short" shorts and not look foolish for trying to look like she's 20 years old. (Nothing could be tackier and less sexy IMO.) None of my "pertinent parts" will be on display...and hopefully I will be able to achieve a sexy yet classy look without giving away the farm. (That's how my husband thinks it's most sexy anyway...really classy, but still hot. And although I definitley enjoy being admired by others when it happens, my hubby is the one I most want to think I look good.)From the public at large, I prefer a "Dang, she looks good!" response to a "Look at those tits and that ass hanging out. I want to bend her over and do her right here" kind of response every single time.

Nobody's actually blaming this nanny. But come on, you can't possibly really think that exposing a man to known erotic stimuli (bare but and boobs from a bending over position)and having his instincts of arousal involuntarily kick in, is is any way, shape or form equivalnet to a man actively making a choice to rape a girl, can you? Remember, creepy as the fantasy is, this dad has done nothing to act on his feelings of arousal.)

BTW, I don't necessarily believe this post is real. (But its a good topic, so I like discussing it.)If it is real, dad, please give us more details as to exactly the type of swimwear she wears, as well as the exact type of shorts and tank top she wears around the house. It would be good to know just how often this bending over happens too...once a week, or several times throughout the day. Is it in your known presence, or just when you are spying on her and she doesn't know you're watching? That way, those of us are trying to give informed opinions without immediately and automatically jumping on the very popular "All Men Are Pigs" bandwagon, can maybe have a clearer idea of what we are actually dealing with here.

Oh, and I was thinking about one possible way it might work for you to keep this nanny and not endanger her or your family. Can you arrange it so that you never, NEVER are in her presence again? Go to work when it's smoggy, or get out of the house somehow every single day, before she arrives, and don't come back until after she's gone. Let your wife handle EVERY aspect of her employment. Tell your wife why and I"m sure she'll have NO problem making the extra effort to keep you two completely separated. Unless she's a live in. If she is, there's no safe way to salvage this.

WTF, they're not going to get it. It's like speaking a different language. Original poster, if you are real... seriously, get help. Everyone else, I assume you've enjoyed imagining your scenarios where this is the lifetime movie of the week and the nanny is a tramp, but that's not really issue here at all. It is seriously NOT okay to blame women for being "too attractive" and excuse men for "just doing what's natural." I realize there's nothing I can say to make you see that, but I really hope someday you learn it, because the thought of you passing this message on to your kids is pretty sad.

So mom, it would *never* occur to your husband the lawyer to take legal action if your daughter the lifeguard was fired from her job just for looking too good in her "modest one piece"? And now the 2 piece suits that lifeguards wear at your club are more modest than the shorts and t-shirts this nanny wears? AND btw, even a tank top is never mentioned anywhere in this guy's post. He says "t-shirt and shorts". Period.

I agree with mom. I think it would just be a deal-breaker and not worth it. I wouldn't want my daughter working for someone like that. And I doubt her Dad would either. Some things are not worth fighting for.

I don't think it is about blaming women for being too attractive: it's about reality. If you dress a certain way, people get the wrong idea. That's just reality. Men don't respect young women who dress inappropriately. They may want them for sex, but that doesn't mean they respect them.

I would like my daughter to learn that if you ask for trouble, you'll get it. That does not mean that I would not support her and fight with her if she ever, God forbid, got treated badly or hurt. It is not her fault. But there are ways to invite trouble into your life. That is just common sense. I also want my daughter to know that being attractive and pretty is not the most important thing in the world: it is what is on the inside that counts. Looks eventually fade while other things remain.

you obviously misinterpreted what I said. Obviously there is no excuse for rape. And no, wearing a two piece swim suit would not mean that a girl was "asking for trouble", eric's mom. I am surprised that you didn't get what I was saying. You are usually more open minded.

And portlander: the phrase "asking for trouble" is a legitimate one. Would you prefer "playing with fire?" That's a good one too.

If you go out dressed like a whore, you are indeed asking for trouble. If you hang around a bad part of town, and are dressed slutty, you are asking for trouble. If you go out with a guy you don't know and then go back to his place and get wasted, you are asking for trouble. You may not like to face that fact, but it is the truth.

No means no, and no woman deserves to be raped. However, there are certain things a woman can do to stay out of dangerous situations. Of course men who rape are committing an act of violence and sometimes it cannot be prevented. But you can curb danger somewhat by being smart. That is all I meant.

In a perfect world we would all be able to walk around in string bikinis and go to the movies in bad parts of town by ourselves and hang around dark ally ways and hang out at bars and get wasted and hit on strange guys and expect nothing of it. In a perfect world, a boss wouldn't scam on his teenage nanny behind his wife's back. But the world is not perfect. The sooner people realize this, the better, imo.

When they start twisting your words and exaggerating them to the point that they no longer represent your intended point (which they realize, but simply pretend to be ignorant of), it's time to realize thay aren't even planning to consider reality anymore, and are simply more interested in holding fast to an abstract concept, no matter how it actually meshes with reality.

See how they want to twist things into implying that you are blaming rape victims? That kind of taking things to the lowest, basest possible level, shows that somebody has no sense of middle ground...or at least doesn't want to admit it.

Minute Muggle, I'm sure you're being good intentioned, but you are using the exact language that rape apologists use in your last comment. I understand that you are not meaning to victim-blame, but that is exactly how it reads.

I guess the other problem I have is that I have a hard respecting someone who calls other women "slutty" or "whores." How does that elevate the conversation? Misogynistic language is hard for me to tolerate.

Holy shit, muggle, how on earth did you jump from a nanny doing her job, supervising kids at the swimming pool, in a t-shirt and shorts, with the puerile "dad" of the house drooling over her every move, or a young woman wearing a modest one piece bathing suit to her job as a lifegurad to a "slutty' woman who dresses "like a whore" walking around a bad part of town being raped and "asking for trouble"? Are you smoking something? What does the one have to do with the other? Are you arguing that female nannies should only work for gay dads, or that only male nannies should be employed by straight dads, or that female nannies should simply state up front that they will never consider supervising children near water because it will require a choice between appropriate, functional swimwear or their reputations as "ladies" (not to mention their personal safety!) or that they should perform all those functions but a male nanny must be hired for swim duty? Or that nannies must first ascertain in an interview whether the mom is a lesbian, (so as to not "ask for trouble")? Or is it only males who have no control of their sexual urges, so a female nanny in a swimsuit would be safe enough with a lesbian mom? I'm sorry but wTF is your point? You've gone off the deep end with this one I'm afraid.

And mom, have you verified yet with your husband the lawyer that unfair firing CAN constitute sexual harrassment? So far you've dodged that question repeatedly.

Getting back to the OP's post. It says nothing about the type of suit she wears. It may well be an ugly one piece designed by Margaret Sanger. "She is doing nothing to lead me on,........ She bends over right in front of me in her suit, or the little t-shirts and shorts she wears. "As for his description of her "little t-shirts and shorts", that is HIS description. The guy who imagines hiding in her room while she undresses. My guess is, they are not "little" or inappropriate for outdoor play in hot weather with children. Ok Dad, what are you doing right behind her, when she is out at the pool with the children? Shouldn't you be in your office with your eyes on the computer if you are home working? Maybe it will help you control yourself to imagine how disgusted, and possibly frightened she would be if she knew what the middle aged coot she works for is thinking.

Portlander,I don't know if my comment was directed at you or not, because I can't remember who all has brought this up, but my specific objection is to people assigning the opinion that "a girl who dresses inappropriately deserves to be raped" onto people who do believe that the way a person chooses to dress does make a difference in the treatment they are more likely to expect. Those two statements are so far apart that I find it extremely offensive to suggest that because some of us believe a lady might want to think about how she dresses if she wants to be perceived as professional, we must also believe that any woman ever deserves to be raped based on her attire. Keep it rational and I have no problems respectfully hearing from people with every possible perspective on this. And I believe everybody here is smart enough to know that Minute Muggle was NOT suggesting anything of the sort. I'm sure she was offended, as I have been when people have dared compare the two in relation to my posts. That's all. Again, I don't know who said it, so I don't know whether I was referring to you or not. Many times I do not specifically check to see who wrote what...unless I want to specifically respond, in which case I go back and look.

Mom: Well, I did question MM's phrase "asking for trouble." Perhaps you weren't addressing me; I assumed so since your comment followed hers which did directly address me.

I don't actually believe that MM was making the statement that women who dress in certain ways are "asking" for assault, though she certainly appropriated the language of those who do hold that belief, intentional or not. Calling women whores does nothing for the debate here. I'm disappointed to read a lot of these comments. I don't think it needs to be said that no matter how a woman dresses, acts, looks, or speaks she is in no way deserving or "asking" for any kind of harassment. MinuteMuggle said "If you go out dressed like a whore, you are indeed asking for trouble. If you hang around a bad part of town, and are dressed slutty, you are asking for trouble. If you go out with a guy you don't know and then go back to his place and get wasted, you are asking for trouble. You may not like to face that fact, but it is the truth." I would love for her to clarify this statement. What "trouble" is a woman "asking for?" What exactly defines slutty clothing? As it stands I see her comment as no different from every other misogynistic victim blamer's comment. I don't believe that my objection to her comment was irrational.

I would also like to add that I do not believe this post is real. I think this post was a masturbatory fantasy sent in to get a rise out of commenters, and thus fuel the fantasy. So congratulations, OP, I guess you did a good job.

Cali, I spoke with my husband about your question tonight. This is paraphrased just because I can't remember every single word...but this is my best shot at the exact thing:

I told him about the OP's question and also your whole scenario about our daughter and the lifeguard job and asked if he would sue under the circumstances.

He said "No."

Me: Why not?

He: Because I don't believe in suing for stupid things. I hate it when people think they need to sue over every ridiculous little thing that happens to them.

Me: Please elaborate. They will want to know what you mean.

He: I don't like lawsuits that are stupid. Our daughter is 15 and it wouldn't be the end of the world for her to lose a lifeguard job. She'd get over it and get another job. It's not worth suing over. I wouldn't want her working for somebody like that anyway, and instead of fighting over something that's not a big deal, I generally choose to distance myself from people and situations like that.

Me: OK, they're going to want to know what you think of a person having this happen who is 25 and a trained, professional nanny, who has made this her professional career. It would be way more significant to her to be fired than it would for a young girl who has a summer job.

He: If her career is so important to her then she should think about how she dresses at work. She should dress modestly enough that there should never be any question about whether it is appropriate. If she's so attractive, then she needs to be especially careful about how she dresses.

Me: You're gonna get flamed for that.

He: It's all of their faults.

Me: Whose?

He: Everybody. All three adults involved. The mom and the dad hired her and thay saw that she was attractive at the time. Ground rules should have been set up right from the start, and they weren't. The father should not have been working alone with her in the house, ever. And she should have dressed professionally. The whole thing is a recipe for disaster and the result should be no surprise to anybody. And he absoultely needs to tell his wife immediately.

Me: Some of the ladies want to know if firing her because of this could be considered sexual harrassment.

He: No. (Rolls his eyes.) There was no harrassment.

me: Could it be sexual discrimination?

He: No. I doubt it. They hired her knowing she is a woman, didn't they? And they aren't firing her for being a woman either. That's not discrimination.

Me: Would they be breaking any law you could think of?

He: I doubt it. They don't even have to tell her why they are firing her. They don't need a reason. They can just tell her it's not working out and that's all they have to say. She'll never even know why.

Me: What if he told her that was why she was being fired? Could she then sue him and win?

He: I doubt it. Besides, nobody would ever say that so its a ridiculous question. She'll never know why. She'd never be able to prove it either.

Me: What if she could prove it? Is there a crime?

He: I doubt it. And she'd never prove it.

Me: Some of the people say that women shoud be able to dress however they want and that men need to get a grip and get over it.

He: (after a chuckling grunt and another eye roll )OK, whatever. That's not how it works in real life.

There is a BIG difference between obsessing over a woman you see walk by your house or office and seeing her IN your house 8-10 hrs a day. One makes you a perv..the other a normal human being with a constant reminder right in front of you all day.

Sounds like maybe it wasn't even you. I see that a lot of people are arguing here (I think this is a good topic, even if it isn't a real post), and I mostly try to stay out of that. It's the rape comments that have me bothered. That's going waaaay too far.

Mom,I have only one thing to say about your para-phrasing of your husband; Specifically this paragraph.

"He: Everybody. All three adults involved. The mom and the dad hired her and thay saw that she was attractive at the time. Ground rules should have been set up right from the start, and they weren't. The father should not have been working alone with her in the house, ever. And she should have dressed professionally. The whole thing is a recipe for disaster and the result should be no surprise to anybody. And he absoultely needs to tell his wife immediately."

wow...a lot of you moms are really flattering yourselves and your husbands! I am an attractive 21 year old nanny, and believe me, i am not attracted to your older husbands. I like good looking guys MY AGE, the oldest person i would date is probably 24 or 25. Maybe your husbands are lecherous perverts, but that doesnt mean that the young, attractive woman that you hire is going to reciprocate his feelings. Also, as far as the whole dress code thing goes, as a camp counselor we were required to wear a one piece bathing suit at the pool. Its easy enough to require the same of your nanny, as it is a job, not personal tanning time.

and Mom...i found your comment downright offensive. All young women are not after your husbands money. Maybe some are, but i feel that for the most part, if you find a nice young lady to watch your kids, and she is being paid to do so, than that is what she will focus on doing well. Not seducing your husband because he has money and power. Please. My friends and I (all attractive and in our early twenties) date guys our ages, they do not have tons of money, but they have enough to take us out to dinner or buy us something pretty every once in a while, and believe me, at 21, thats more than enough. I do not know a single girl my age who pursues older men because they have money or a powerful position. Get your heads out of the gutter.

"JacksMom said... Yes, it is wrong since he seems to be the one who has a problem. But, if he actually cannot control himself. Should she continue to work in an environment that is a possible threat to her and the family? I do not think this can be considered a normal job where they can let him go because it is unfair to let her go instead. Granted there are a whole lot of things the family can do differently to handle the situation but this is one of those if the Cat is out of the bag it "ain't gonna get back in easily".

Then again...Husband goes to wife; "Honey we have a problem with the Nanny. I am way to attracted to her, her tight shorts in her tight tees and I am starting to obsess over her way to much. I may do something that will get us in really deep trouble. Like stand inside her closet to watch her undress in her room."

Wife to man; “Dear you know how hard it is to get and keep really good Nannies these days? She is so wonderful with the kids and all. So get your stuff, get out, I want a divorce! The Nanny is way to important for me to let her go. I am sure you can always find another wife.”

To those who have a hard time understanding such things. The above Husband/Wife conversation was a joke

Firts..who wants to leave their children with a women who is so unaware of her surroundings or of the effect she has on people? My children deserve a much more aware nanny! As a women I am very aware of the affect I do or don't have on the people around me.

reality is//some women are just absoluteley stunning and command attention. They can wear a potato sack and still come off as sexy.For a man to be honest enough to admit to himself and to us that this is a problem for him and to want to make it right..is not a reality for most men.

I don't care who says what about.."man -up"..grow-up" "dad is a perv"...Dad is a human and not always being in control of our feelings is Very HUMAN..however"remaining in control,not acting on our feelings (when inappropriate) and trying to right the situation is how adults and level headed people behave.

If dad was truly a perv he would not care what anyone thought and would continue to watch this gal..but obviously it bothers him and he is trying to fix it. The answer may not be a pretty one or even a fair one but it IS an answer that will keep a young girl from being un-knowingly oogled & keep dad from getting himself any deeper into a possibly dangerous situation.Bravo dad for being honest....And for all of you women who have posted above who think that your husbands(or most men for that matter) don't have similar issues when they see an attractive or downright sexy women when out of the home or in the office..keep on being naive..looking and fantasizing are all normal & healthy..just because your husbands don't act on it or run home and tell you about it..does not mean they don't do it!!

As women..we know what we are doing when we dress..bend,twist and there is a time and a place for everything..as a nanny & mommmy I bend down,twist around..stoop & lift all day long..but I am aware of who is behind me or beside me or in front of me and I do so appropriately.

I agree women should be able to dress any way they choose but if the show the goods they should expect that people are going to look at the goods.

A tank top or tiny shirt or daisy dukes..whatever..not appropriate at work. Mid thigh or longer shorts and a t-shirt(not a spaghetti strap tank) with a bra(nat a victoria secret push-up bra either) is very appropriate on a warm day and a nice modest Bathing suit cover up while at the pool will do nicely. Unfair that nanny may get fired..of course but lets turn it around..If I was a sexy bombshell nanny working at home with dad alone and the kids..in todays economy..I would be doing all I needed to do for job security..including paying attention to what I am wearing to work! Save the tiny t-shirts and shorts for the bar or beach nanny..

Curious dad,I enjoyed both of your posts. The first one because you agreed with us (hehehehe), and the second one because the dialogue is funny.

noonewnatstodoyouroldhusband,That's OK that you found my comment offensive. The reason you found it offensive is because you must be a decent girl who wants to find true love, and happiness in that, rather than a girl who finds satisfaction in wealth and material goods. At your age I felt the same as you (still do actually), but was appalled to hear so many other girls talk about their impending dates, not by who they guys were, but by what type of car they were going to get to ride in that night. And the guys with those Porsches and Mercedes were typically old enough to have earned them themselves. I thought "Ugh!" I was appalled one night when my 18 year old roommate during college went out with a 40 year old man because, "He has a Mercedes." She came home with various trinkets that she had cajoled him into buying for her during the course of the date...including a couple of Grolsch beers each for both her and me (it was usually too expensive for us.) I was so curious, so I asked her how she managed to come upon beer to bring home after her date, not just for herself, but for me. She said, as if it was no big deal, that she had asked him if he would buy some beer for her and her friend...and then proceeded to pick up especially expensive beer for him to pay for. I always wondered how these girls could seemingly "date cars" rather than the guys inside them. And there were A LOT of them who did things like that...trying to get immediate gifts in the short run for some...or working to secure a long term situation of wealth and luxury for themselves in other cases. And don't believe for a second they cared a whit about who they had to oust from the nest, or how many kids got uprooted,for them to land in the lap of luxury. And men fell for it over and over and over and over and over. Just like the 40 year old man who found himself in the liquor store buying beer for his teenage date and her friend (after having bought all the other things she asked for on that, their first date)ought to have realized he was being used,so many others do not get it either. Don't ask me why. Seems nuts to me.

Unless (as I suggested to my husband a couple of months back while pondering whether old rich guys with young bouncy, dingbat trophy women realize how utterly stupid they actually look when they apparently think it makes them look cool) the kind of unbelievably shallow men who leave their wives for young gold digger bimbos actually realize they are being used, but don't care...because they realize that they are also using the women...NOT as signs to the other men, who they are hoping to one-up, that they are young and virile...but as sick signs that they are wealthy enough to buy a stiff racked teeny bopper, and screw her night after night, even though they, themselves, are fat, bald and ugly as sin. To some people status and wealth, and showing that off, is more important to people than anything. Which, in turn, is why so many young women choose to bed a bald paunchy retiree each night instead of a hot man of their own generation. It's all a tradeoff. Just depends what's most important to you which way you choose to go.

You may have wonderful values...but don't be fooled for half a second into believeing that all girls are like you and your friends. (People tend to choose friends of the same moral caliber, so it is no surprise that your friends also prefer love over money.)

you sound like a gold-digger in training. why do you expect your dates to buy you stuff or take you out to dinner at all? Why not go dutch? That's what I do with my boyfriend.

different people are attracted to different things. And although you say you wouldn't want to date an older man for whatever reason, many many young women do. It's really not so out of left field. Do you live under a rock?

As long as the woman who was fired for being too attractive could never *prove* that's why she was fired, he considers it acceptable. So, as long as the employers don't ever let her *know* that's why they fired her, he agrees with you that it's acceptable. And he wouldn't pursue it if your daughter was unfairly fired because he just wouldn't think it was worth the effort.

Just curious, what do both of you consider "appropriate dress" for a nanny who is supervising multiple small children in a swimming pool? And could you possib;y post a picture of these "modest 2-piece suits" that the female lifeguards wear at your club, because I am having trouble envisioning how they are somehow more modest and less revealing than a t-shirt and shorts.

If you are trying to envision what would be appropriate dress for a young nanny...an outfit that most any person, even with our varied opinions of what is appropriate, would not deem inappropriate for a professional nanny who wants to be SURE she appears to be professional...to any variety of people with any variety of opinions (and a great many right off the bat would agree that the word "little" to describe any of the major atricles of clothing COULD turn out be problematic) ... you can get a relly good idea by picking up any brochure from a respectable college and looking at the girls they deem to be cool and fun enough to entice other young girls to want to attend, and yet wholesome enough that parents will feel comfortable sending their young daughters there. I've seen about a billion this past year. Nice wholesome young people who, by outward appearance, make most normal people think, "What a wholesome looking young person, " NOT "I want to screw that right here and now." That kind of oufit.

If you want to see lifeguarding suits, you can look them up at a website for Speedo.

cali,Read again to see the difference being able to prove it would make to the nanny's "legal case." You missed a bunch of information somewhere in there. She's not being "harassed" or "discriminated against"...she's being let go AT WILL form a situation that is not working out for the family. That's perfectly legal.

Decent lawers who have respect for what our laws were intended to do (as opposed to the ways they are sometimes twisted in abused in our "me, me me" society) don't start or accept losing or frivolous lawsuits.

Mom, you are still not convincing me that a 2 piece Speedo or other bathing suiit could be *less* revealing than a t-shirt and shorts.

And "at-will employment" does NOT allow for disccrimination in violation of federal law, or sexual harrassment. Whether the vicctoim an effectively PROVE they were discriminated against does not impacct whether ort not they really were. That's like saying that if no one saw you steal those paper clips from the office cabinet, you didn't really steal them. Or at least, it was OK to steal them as long as no one can prove you did.

Oh brother Cali! The WHOLE point IS that she is NOT being harassed or discriminated against, by the terms of the law, and so the father would not be inviolation of either of those laws. I'm sure there are definitions of what constitutes a breach of those laws if you want to read them personally. You're off base on what they are intended to protect against...and it's not this type of scenario. It's to protect minorities, gays, whatever, from being prohibited jobs, facing a glass ceiling, etc., based on somebody else's disdain for their group. Sexual harassment, I'm not going to go over that again. Instead, you tell me how she has been harassed.

He can fire her AT WILL as long as he's not breaking one of those laws...which AGAIN, he is not.

I'm getting confused by your one piece bathing suit vs shorts and top argument. Are you suggesting that since nanny is going to wear a swimsuit, one piece or otherwise, to the pool that it should be perfectly fine for her to wear whatever the heck else she wants inside the house, to the park, whatever, during her day to day performance away from the pool as long as it contains at least as much fabric as her bathing suit? That's ridiculous. Should she wear her swimsuit all over the house since it has as much fabric as she is respectably allowed to wear to the pool.

Cali,If you're looking for "discrimination", here's the type this post most resembles. It's called "lookism." But this type of "discrimination" is not a crime, or protected against in the law. Hire the pretty girl. Fire the ugly one. Fire the pretty girl and get an ugly one to replace her. (ONLY in an at will situation though.) It's all legal. Not fair, and yet reality. Mostly, according to what I've been reading, looking good has favorable consequences for women, on the job, in school, even in the courts. Unfortunately for this nanny, looking good was to her detriment...whereas the opposite is usually true. Unattractive people don't get to sue for the ongoing detriments they suffer because of this prejudice. Neither do the pretty when, once in a blue moon they stop getting all the perks and their looks bite them in the butt instead.

The Ugly Truth About Beauty ….Like It or Not, Looks Do Matter

A lot of us think we value people because of what they accomplish, or their character, or generosity, or intelligence — that’s what we thought mattered, but are we just putting blinders on?

More often than not it seems qualities other than skill, intelligence or character pay off. Here’s an example. Anna Kournikova is ranked 37th in women’s tennis, and has never won a major singles championship. So, why is it that Kournikova makes millions more dollars from endorsements than players ranked higher?

Lookism – is discrimination against or prejudice towards others based on their appearance. The World Association of Ugly People is an organization dedicated to fighting for the recognition of ugly people, in a society that places a high value on physical beauty. The group’s motto is “A person is what he is and not what he looks like”.

Sharon Cullors wrote:

We’ve all heard that old adage about beauty being in the eye of the beholder. And by now we all know this isn’t entirely true. Yes, it would be nice to have complete power over our own images and self-definition, to control how people saw and reacted to us. Unfortunately for most of us, women especially, minority women in particular, the beauty standard is created, modified, distorted, diced, pureed and fed to us by the select few who control the media and set the trends and fashions of the day. And even more unfortunate, that standard tends to be stringent and unrelenting, excluding a vast population of noncomforming features, skin color, and body types. As the standard is so selective, only a select few will ever fit its criteria.

So, how does this affect you? Probably you figure it doesn’t. After all, you’ve got it going on and that type of garbage doesn’t fill your mind. Even so, you might be surprised to know that not fitting a particular standard could prevent you from getting that job you want or better pay for the one you already have. And we’re not talking racism here. Research has now proven what many of us have always suspected; looks matter, and to many with the power to bestow positions and perks, good looks carry a premium.

According to university researchers in Texas and Michigan, an attractive worker is paid 10 percent more than his or her unattractive counterpart, even where they perform the same work and have similar levels of experience. This is true even in positions where looks should play little or no part. This type of discrimination, termed lookism is also a factor in areas other than employment. In her book Survival of the Prettiest: The Science of Beauty, Dr. Nancy Etkoff points out other areas where pulchritude – or the lack thereof – can enhance your chances or hinder your prospects: in school, in the judicial system, and sometimes even in the place where one should expect refuge from this mess: in the home. According to studies and Dr. Etkoff’s book, teachers often give better grades to good-looking children, police officers go easier on attractive people (ever wonder how many tickets beautiful female motorists actually avoid?), good-looking defendants get more favorable verdicts or sentences, and cute-as-button children receive more attention from their mothers than unattractive children get from theirs. Granted, these may only be theories and no one wants to believe that the extent of a mother’s love is predicated on the attractiveness of her child. But how many of us have heard mothers call their children something akin to “you ugly (fill in blank)”. And how many of us remember teachers choosing the pretty girl to stand in the front of the line when the class was led out for recess?

In response to Mom's comment to mine: yes, my friends and I are much the way you described. And I do realize that much younger women go after older men. My parent's marriage was destroyed because of exactly that scenario, so it isnt really a new concept to me. But I meant to say that if you are hiring someone to watch your children, you should be able to trust her implicitly, more than one would with their husband, i'd think. But the fact of the matter is, while there are many of those girls out there, there are probably many more who are decent young ladies, who are attracted to guys around their own ages, and who value their jobs. I personally would think most parents would want to hire someone to watch their kids who has good moral values, and who isn't just looking for some one to hand them money and gifts, especially at the expense of a family.

And Disgusted: What exactly is so offensive to you about a 21 year old guy taking a 21 year old girl out for dinner and a movie? Not all of us insist on going dutch, though i have at points, and even bought my boyfriend dinner as well at times. If a 21 year old guy is making a little extra money and wants to take his girlfriend out for a nice meal, or maybe pick her up a small, cheap gift just to show he was thinking about her, how does that make his girlfriend a gold-digger? A gold digger goes out with someone that she isn't interested in emotionally because he is wealthy. She will use him to ascertain material goods that she could not afford on her own. A girl who dates (and cares about) a 21 year old student with a part time job is not exactly a gold digger if he takes her out to dinner. And yes, all my friends are beautiful girls, inside and out. None of them date older married men, and they all are confident in their ability to make their own money when they are done with school, instead of relying on their looks to seduce powerful and wealthy older men.

disgusted-i see you have no response to my comments other than "you are a bitch." Perhaps it is because you know that in no way does one 21 year old taking another out for a 30 dollar dinner make the girl a gold digger. i am a bitch, you're right (for once!). Which is why im gonna say i won that round. I dislike you immensely, and am looking forward to disagreeing with you in the future.

So does your husband practice maritime law or something, mom? Or is he just a really bad lawyer? I do not buy for a second that it's legal to fire your nanny because her incredible good looks turn you on sexually to the point that you want to hide in her closet to watch her undress. Give me a break.

Sorry mom, I just don't have the time to read all that right now and I highly doubt that it's relevant anyhow. If you can't comprehend (or admit) the fact that an employer getting so horny around his unsuspecting employee that he chooses to fire her rather than just control himself constitutes unfair firing and IS a form of sexual harassment without 8,000 words of psychobabble, then you're pretty much just lost in your own little fantasy world.

And why on earth are you going on about the nanny wearing a bikini to the grocery store? This POST was about her wearing a t-shirt and shorts at the BACKYARD SWIMMING POOL. Nothing more, despite your crotch in the face scenarios.

I don't know the legal basis for firing a nanny when for some reason her employers suddenly think they should not be working for them anymore, but it seems to me that standard work practices do not apply here. What would be unfair in the workplace can seem like common sense in the household.I don't know if the dad is a creep or if the nanny is a gold-digger, all I know is that if I was a live-in nanny and I learnt that the dad was thinking about hiding in my closet, I would want out. In any case, the nanny has just been there a month, which should make things easier.

Is it ok to fire her if it came out that she is bending over purposely to arouse him?

Here is a story from before I had children and gained some self respect. I was aware that I was attractive and aware of the effect it had on men. There was a cute guy in my office, he was 8 years older than me (he was 27, not married). I used to bend over in front of him all the time to either show my butt or my cleavage. I knew exactly what I was doing just as this nanny does.

Where do you all get the idea that the OP is some ugly old pervert? I don't recall him mentioning his age and hello, there are many sexy 40-50 year old men out there. If OP is attractive, I can guarantee she is doing it on purpose. If he is not attractive, I'm sure she is still doing it on purpose. Some women like attention, even if the dude is old and ugly.

Psyber chica, you sound like this moron I used to work with. His theory was that the *only* reason anybody EVER smokes marijuana is to impress their friends. Because...that's why he used to do it when he was 14. Really, just because you're an idiot doesn't mean everyone else is.

All,To those who say he did not mention a bathing suit only shorts and a T-shirt I refer you to this sentence. "She bends over right in front of me in her suit, or the little t-shirts and shorts she wears."

Unless you really think this is a business suit she is wearing, it reads to me like a bathing suit, does not matter what kind unless she is wearing a 1920's style suit any modern suit is pretty damn revealing. Ill check out a one piece wearing woman as much as I would a g-string and nipple cup wearing one. Especially if you bend down in front of me. The little t-shirt can just as easily be a tank top or a midriff baring t-shirt, all he said was little t-shirt, not what kind.

It also reads to me like she is either acting inappropriately around the father OR the father is putting himself in a position that is inappropriate, just to check out the Nanny. I have seen the bend over stunt way to often from younger women and I am 40, several friends of mine call it a C-MAP "check my ass pose”. Usually from women who are trying to show off without seeming too. To us, too many of them have watched Legally Blond to many times. Either way you translate it bad for everyone involved.

Cali Mom, yes I agree it is unfair for her to be let go over this, it IS not NECESSARILY her fault. There is a chance if we take what the poster wrote at face value, that fault is hers, in which case yes it is a sexual harassment problem since she is making the work place a hostile environment for him. But I do not think it is ILLEGAL for them to let her go over this problem, which is Moms point. Fair and legality do not always coincide with each other.

Curious Dad,You are hilarious! "C-MAP!!!" I can't wait to casually work that into a conversation somehow and watch my husband's jaw drop! (hehehe) I'm thinking it should rival the times I first casually tossed out the terms "Fucktard" and "Asshat"...which, BTW, I most likely learned on this site. (My kids overheard the "Fucktard" and asked, "Mom! Where did you learn that?!!" I asked, "Why, have YOU heard of that before?" "They said, "Duh. Everybody's heard of that, but we didn't think YOU'D know it.!" My husband was more like, "You think you're pretty clever, huh? Is that another little gem you learned from your "Nanny Cam" friends? Then I got the standard lecture from the kids about how I should, never, never, never say that word again...not because it's a bad word, mind you, but apparently because I am way too old and uncool to properly pull it off. To which I give my standard retort, much to their dismay and despite their begging me not to, "I don't know why we can't all, as a society, just stick with the really cool terms like "Bitchin,'" "Groovy," "Radical," "Neato," "Lame," "Nerdy," "I'm Suuuuure," "Totally," and "Shine on." It would be so much easier. We could all understand one another much better...and we would all sound so much more "Bad Assed!" Do you think we ought to start a constitutional amendment to "Git 'er done?"

"Cali Mom, yes I agree it is unfair for her to be let go over this, it IS not NECESSARILY her fault. There is a chance if we take what the poster wrote at face value, that fault is hers, in which case yes it is a sexual harassment problem since she is making the work place a hostile environment for him."

BRILLIANT!!!! (and funny)

I also think she must have been wearing a somewhat revealing top...otherwise why would he mention her bending over in it? Bend over all day in a crew neck and not even Jude Law will give it a second thought!

When we were interviewing Nannies, age and looks weren’t part of our concerns, just someone we could trust to look after our child and keep him stimulated. My wife was hoping for someone on the younger side who would have the energy to run around in the park, play ball etc. I was hoping for someone not-too-attractive as I didn’t want to have the OP’s problem. I would say most guys will get very turned on by a hottie in a bathing suit/shorts/jeans/snow suit whatever; and then to be around it every day, and a live in no less!!?? Ey yi yi !!

To all those suggesting he tell his wife. My wife and I have a great relationship and are very open with each other. But, if I was to come to her and tell her after losing our nanny of 2 years and juggling our schedules and relying on our family for help, that the nanny we had worked so hard to find and who had bonded so well with our kids had to go because I wanted to jump her bones so bad it was effecting my work… well batten down the hatches ‘cause this ain’t going to be pretty.

OP if you’re for real (probably not) try to change your fantasy from hiding in the closet watching her undress, to imagining her on the potty making a big smelly #2. Or taking a lick of her used tampon. I know ladies I’m being gross but this situation requires extreme measures.

Dad,Really? You think your wife would be LESS upset to find you licking your nanny's used tampon than if you simply told her, "Hon. I'm as shocked as anybody because before now I would have sworn myself immune to such immaturity...but I suddenly find myself shamelessly attracetd to nanny, who does not help matters by bending over in front of me in her bathing suit and those little shorts outfits you see she wears to work. I honestly don't know whether she's flirting by doing that, or if its all in my head, but honestly, I would feel more comfortable if we just put an end to the whole issue now and found a new nanny. To be safe, now that I know I have a problem, we probably ought to set up some ground rules and a dress code for our nannies. You and the kids are just too important to me to put our relationship at risk in any way."

Wouldn't that be way safer than potentially having to backpedal and try to make her believe that you were, in actuality, only licking the nanny's used tampon in order to quell your insatiable lust for her....when what she really might be secretly wondering is whether you're just another guy with a weird tampon fetish a la Prince Charles?

Mom, I think Dad Perspective meant that OP should picture the NANNY licking HER OWN used tampon in order to squash his desire for her. I sincerely hope he wasn't suggesting the OP should lick the nanny's used tampon!

Ewwww I'm going to throw up LOL. And let's be real. Although your speech:

"Hon. I'm as shocked as anybody because before now I would have sworn myself immune to such immaturity...etc...To be safe, now that I know I have a problem, we probably ought to set up some ground rules and a dress code for our nannies. You and the kids are just too important to me to put our relationship at risk in any way."

Sounds good in theory but nobody talks like that outside of marrige counseling, which is where I'd end up ;)

Yes dad, undoubtedly...but you'd probably need to be there for at least a lttle while after that anyway!

I'm not saying your wife wouldn't be upset, or that she wouldn't have every right to be. I just composed an an answer that would encompass everything I personally would need to hear from my husband, under the circumstances, to prevent my wanting to bash his head in with a frying pan before we were able to make it to the first session! And I think having him come to me first would probably at least give me some peace that I was married to a man who wasn't a cheater at heart.

Of course, nobody likes to hear that their spouse is so unbelievably sexually attracted to somebody else that they actually fear for their ability to keep it in their pants should the right circumstance arise! Whether the ability for him to control his horniness is biological or not, it still hurts.

But it would hurt a lot less than one day attending her children's special life milestones in the company of you, her former nanny who is now your wife, and the pack of half-siblings you so thoughtfully provided for your existing children. Not to mention what an incredibly enriching life experience it is for kids to know that, while they can no longer live with their daddy, at least daddy has a new set of children that do get to live with him everyday instead. I've seen a lot of kids who have gone through that experience and I'm pretty sure thay universally enjoy that "I've been replaced" feeling...NOT.

I second your opinion of the dads here! They are very funny, and insightful. (Men tend, on the whole, to be more rational, less knee-jerk emotional, than women.)

Laughing at the douchebag comment! My kids say that too. I have come up with a response which absolutely disgusts them, which I will offer for your use as well:

At Christmas, in front of my visiting mother (and a couple of other close family friends), one of my sons called the other a douche. I screwed up my face, as if to portray great confusion, looked for a moment into the face every person present, as if silently inquiring as to whether anybody else understood this most unusual insult, and then asked, "Feminine vaginal wash? WHY would you call your brother feminine vaginal wash?" Every time I said the words "feminine vaginal wash" they physically recoiled and made noises that sounded very much like the Wicked Witch in the Wizard of Oz when she got wet. They begged me never to say that again, but I just played dumb...really dumb...and kept asking questions that allowed me to repeat the phrase as many times as possible. By the end they were all laughing hysterically.

Now, whenever somebody says that, I helpfully clarify, " Do you mean feminine vaginal wash?" It's kind of a joke now, but they still groan and seem disgusted every time. Then I am free to act very innocent and say, "Whaaaaaat? You brought it up."

Try it, if you dare, and if your kids are of an appropriate age. And let me know what happens.

...But it would hurt a lot less than one day attending her children's special life milestones in the company of you, her former nanny who is now your wife, and the pack of half-siblings you so thoughtfully provided for your existing children. Not to mention what an incredibly enriching life experience it is for kids to know that, while they can no longer live with their daddy, at least daddy has a new set of children that do get to live with him everyday instead...

Oh snap! When did this thread turn into an episode of "The Young and the Restless"?

Seriously though - I come from a broken home and would never under any circumstances act on any fantasies I was having. I would just deal with it rather than torpedo my marriage, hurt my wife, go to counseling, etc. Easier to have a quick tug and get back to work.

If the OP is at a stage where he might actually try something with the Nanny, then he has bigger problems. Removing the sexy Nanny and replacing her with a battle axe is not a long term solution. What happens when his office hires the new hot exec assistant?

dad's perspective,I also operate under the assumption that not all men are pigs ate heart. Clearly, you have decency, a set of morals, a grasp of the concept of cause and consequence, and an ability to put those you love above your thoughts of immediate gratification. Not all men are like that.

I've seen too many situations that have spiraled irrevocably out of control to trust that anybody as far gone as the OP of this situation sounds can be guaranteed to be able to control himself, given the right set of circumstances with this nanny. I've even seen a couple of men who at one point lived by strong moral codes end up like this. I totally agree that self control is the main line defense...but when things start to go wrong, it's time to RUN from the situation, and the object of oyur desire...just to be absolutely SURE.

And a hot woman at work is far different than a hot women in a bathing suit and little shorts outfits bending over in your house day in and day out, while your wife isn't home. And when you can't help but wonder, at least a little bit, whether all of that C-MAT action in your face is happening because that unbelievable sexy 25 year old wants YOU too! Come on!

But since you asked (hehehee)...my husband and I guard against the possibility of finding ourselves in OPs position by refraining from being alone with people of the opposite sex. We don't go in cars, to restaurants, or into rooms with closed doors, alone with members of the opposite sex. By not being alone it minimizes (although admittedly does not completely erase) the likelihood that unhealthy emotional attachments might creep up on us, or that we might be tempted to say (or hear) anything that might start those wheels spinning toward an affair. (Everybody is somewhat suceptible the right kind of flattery, right?)In other words, it discourages intimacy. It doesn't mean we don't both see people and have to take a second glance, or that we don't realize when the person in the office next to ours is a real hottie (my kids taught me that too, or I would have said "fox")...but it does mean we won't ever find ourselves at a fancy restaurant having a "business" dinner and a couple glasses of wine alone with them. Every little bit helps.

And for those who wonder if it is difficult in business to follow those rules. No. Not in Dallas anyway. There are plenty of people here who follow the same guidelines.

I think u should just speak to ur nanny and let her know ur uncomfortable.... simple as that ... woman can be a problem when they feel threatened by another woman, so try not to involve ur wife, unless u have to!

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