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Topic: Adulterating the Word of God. (Read 5724 times)

Mickiel

In 2Corinth.4:2, an interesting choice of words is used, " But we have renounced the things hidden because of shame , not walking in craftiness or Adulterating the Word of God." Now understand that Adulterate means to debase or deteriorate by an admixture of foreign or baser materials.

One of the popular insults against the doctrine of Universalism is that it is Heresy, and I think that is really a misnomer and partly true. At its original definition, Heresy means a belief at variance with the accepted doctrine of a Church. A Belief that is opposed by the common Authoritive opinion. Universalism " Does fit these definitions", and fits them like a glove. So we need to be cognisant and very careful when you " Argue against" Universalism being Heresy, because it really is. It IS at variance with the accepted doctrine of the worlds common religious Authoritys. Your arguement should be to admit that it IS Heresy according to the religious Authoritys of this world, but NOT according to the word of God. Get the arguement off of the comparrision to church doctrines, and move it into the Scriptures themselves, and make them compare scriptures, not doctrines.

But I want to go into " Adulterating the Word of God", and then we can see who is really " Adding and Mixing" things into Gods Word. Peace.

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Paul Hazelwood

jabcat

I like the sound of this thread. It will be interesting to see what all you include. I believe I have a clue as to some of where you may be headed, but also, IMO, I have seen this in the UR camp as well. For some, it seems when hell goes, then almost anything else is suspect as well...taking the Word, twisting it just a little here and there, adding their own "insights" that when examined closely, don't fit what the Word really says. With that, forgetting that the truth about hell is in scripture, as is the other truths that God also has for us...Mickiel, carry on with where you're headed. Sounds like a good thread. God's blessing, James.

Your arguement should be to admit that it IS Heresy according to the religious Authoritys of this world, but NOT according to the word of God. Get the arguement off of the comparrision to church doctrines, and move it into the Scriptures themselves, and make them compare scriptures, not doctrines,

Actually it is not heresy, it is hetrodoxy. :D

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Mickiel

Your arguement should be to admit that it IS Heresy according to the religious Authoritys of this world, but NOT according to the word of God. Get the arguement off of the comparrision to church doctrines, and move it into the Scriptures themselves, and make them compare scriptures, not doctrines,

Actually it is not heresy, it is hetrodoxy. :D

Well yes, perhaps much better stated, it is Hetrodox , just meaning unorthodox. And this is how Jesus was, because the Gospel really discribes his life. Jesus was Iconoclastic and he didnot conform to the common beliefs of his time. Jesus was a skeptic in one sense, he didnot accept the teachings of men. Which could be defined as heretical, dissenting, uncanonical as well as hetrodoxy. The real truth then can be described as such. To present the truth as anythingelse, is an Aduteration of it. And I want to get into the many variations of that. Peace.

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Mickiel

A trip then down the road of truth, will be unorthodox, a definte challange. You cannot be a disciple of the truth, and yet at the same time try to avoid controversey. Our belief in Universalism is simply a confirmation of a willingness to enter into a most controversal view of scripture, only something Jesus has already done himself. His views on hell, for example, invites controversey, I only wish he would have disected it even moreso. But I think God put that off limits to him, for reasons that I only wish I understood. God wanted the controversey, the mystery, and Jesus delivered that to perfection.

Jesus in John 12:50;" And I know his commandment is eternal Life, therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me." God started the controversey, Jesus dealt with the teachings on hell and punishment, just as God told him to do. Now knowing God, is knowing truth, but understanding Truth, is also understanding why God wants the controversey. To totally examine truth then, is an examination of the mind of God, much more than the mind of Christ. Jesus is the entrance of Truth, but God is the source of Truth.

When Gods word is altered or misconceived, which Jesus never did, that is the source of aduterating the Truth. And I want to touch on that. Peace.

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Mickiel

Here is one of the keys to understanding the bible; Jesus again in John 16:25;" The things I have spoken to you in " Figurative Language"; the hour is comming when I will speak no more in Figurative Language, but will tell you plainly of the Father." The things Jesus spoke on Hell and the Lake of Fire were NOT plain language, but a pictorial representation I think of things that can only be cleared up by God himself. I am not even convinced that God has totally explained this to Jesus. The Father " Decorated the Bible" with words and sayings, times and epochs, some of which only he understands, so how could anyonelse understand what God has witheld? So we decorate with our own speculations. And from this comes many adulterations of his word.

But look at Jesus expression," I will tell you plainly of the Father." Don't assume that Jesus knows these things already, these things of the Father. Oh he knows far more than anyonelse, thats for sure. But I think Jesus spoke on Hell and the Lake of Fire; " From limited knowledge even within himself", if God would have complettely imformed Christ, he would have done so to his followers in return. I don't think Jesus was holding back, I begin to think he revealed what was revealed to him. But I am not really sure about this, even now I am not totally comfortable sharing this, but there is something amiss.

So I want to go into how we should handle these " Gray areas" in the bible, and try to understand whats possibily on Gods mind. Peace.

Your arguement should be to admit that it IS Heresy according to the religious Authoritys of this world, but NOT according to the word of God. Get the arguement off of the comparrision to church doctrines, and move it into the Scriptures themselves, and make them compare scriptures, not doctrines,

Actually it is not heresy, it is hetrodoxy. :D

Actually it is both... both heterodox and heresy mean "contrary" to ORTHODOX dogma... in other words, UN-Orthodox

Main Entry: her·e·sy Pronunciation: \ˈher-ə-sē, ˈhe-rə-\ Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural her·e·sies Etymology: Middle English heresie, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin haeresis, from Late Greek hairesis, from Greek, action of taking, choice, sect, from hairein to take Date: 13th century 1 a: adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma b: denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church c: an opinion or doctrine contrary to church dogma2 a: dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practice b: an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth or to generally accepted beliefs or standards

Mickiel

As some have mentioned and shown above in responses, there are things that Jesus himself does not yet know from God. As the writers of the bible themselves, wrote from " Not complette understanding", but from inspiration of the Holy Spirit, even Christ is not above this. Although Jesus is the Living word of God, it is still God the Father that he represents and Obeys. Understanding this, we can somewhat view Jesus comments on Hell or the eternal fire in a more relative context. And be prayerful in this, realizing that you and I " Are not" above Christ, what Christ does not know, WILL NOT be revealed to us first! Jesus may not be shown the complette revelation on Hell and Eternal fire, until God is ready for that, and that maynot be until the complette restoration of all things. The complette understanding of these subjects, mayNOT be something God will reveal to the Flesh, or a human. Because if he has witheld it from Christ, then I am inclined to believe no " Human" will ever know these things. When we know, we willnot be human. " IF" we are destined to know, because I can see no reason for God to reveal all things to everyone, I think God has shown a great deal of respect for humanity by revealing evil to us already. That ALONE places us ABOVE Angels! Which is another interesting topic.

Now with this in mind, lets consider Matthews 13:37-43, particularily vs. 40;" Therefore just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age." Here we can see what Jesus does know, its going to be some kind of Fire, and something that the Father will do to humans in relation to the Fire. In vs. 42 Jesus foretells humans being " Cast Into" this Fire, which I think is simular to a " Lava Lake", but we must be very careful not to Adulterate this information given here. Jesus called this Fire " A Furnance of Fire", and said it was a " Place." I have read writers speculation about this place being the core of the Earth or the Sun itself, and read it with intrest.

The Jesus who said this, was NOT the eternal being who was with God in Glory before his reduction to human flesh! This Jesus was a " God Reduced" being, who I believe was witheld certain information that could clear a lot of things up. Jesus was " Blindfolded" in many areas by God. Read on into verses 50, where Jesus is again quoted as describing this " Furnance of Fire", yet Christ ALWAYS avoids going into further DETAIL! You ever wonder why? Its like writting a book and leaving a chapter out. Well I think the answer to these questions would be just too much for us to handle. Often the truth can be both dangerous and distrubing. Notice Galations 1:6-12. Notice carefully.

Vs.6;" I am amazed that you are so quickly " Deserting" him who CALLED you by the grace of Christ, for a different Gospel. Now I will further examine these scriptures, but notice this; These are bretheren CALLED by God, and yet deserting this truth relayed to them. ONE of the reasons some of them were doing this, is misunderstanding the knowledge of this eternal fire and hell. Its a lot to ask a human to believe in the Salvation of all, no doubt there. There must have been a " Turning away" from the truth, so the Truth is NOT what humanity has settled on, but turned away from. Humanity has settled on the doctrine of eternal punishment, not turned away from it. Jesus was teaching concepts that show humans being cast into fire, and gave no further details. That is suspect and unsettling to the believer in the Salvation of all. So I believe the ultimate faith in God, is a faith that bridges these gaps with a trust in HIM and what he makes possible. Jesus didnot see this faith on earth and was limited in how he could have given us visual contact with these things. So OUR faith must superseed the very word of God, BY trusting IN God! In Gods heart and characther, Not arrogant defense of UR, but understanding what it is you are truly believing.

This really isn't a forum for debates about what the Bible is or isn't, but I would like to point out that the phrase "Word of God" found in the Bible is not referring to what we call 'the Bible' as the Bible did not exist when the references were made. The "Word of God" existed before the world began and created the worlds. Yes, God's message is contained in the books of the Bible, AND any place else the truth of God is written down or spoken.

The Bible has definitely changed the world, but it did not create the world.

Again, I am not engaging in textual criticism here, but am just referring to what YOUR Bible accurately calls the "Word of God".

blessings, - Byron

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Mickiel

Adulterating Gods word means to change its message or alter it by mixing into it, a false impression. In Luke 9:56, is the plain message of Christ, he came to save mens lives, not destroy them. So the message of truth in the Bible , should be about the Salvation of humanity, not the destruction of humans. Christ came to Save people, our look through scripture then, our walk through it, should be a search for the Life of men and words that support that Life. When you search the scriptures for death, you are not looking at Christ mission in large. We need to find things that support Christ mission, and ADD to that, not look for things that take away from that expressed mission.

In Revelations 22:18-19, an interesting formula of addition and subtraction is listed. Its basically speaking about mixing things into the bible or taking things out away from it. And this is VERY easy to do. " A Spirit" leading you will ALWAYS look to alter the bible and change its meaning. " Gods Spirit Leading you" will look to magnify whats already there. And this dynamic can be very confusing. Many, many humans have " A Spirit" leading them through the bible. They may have a well established relationship with " That Spirit." And to them, " That Spirit" may seem to be God! Because they refuse to believe that satan will establish a " Spiritual relationship" with someone by leading them into the bible and obeying God. They cannot accept that satan will appear " As if he is God", and stay that way to them all of their Lives. They refuse to believe that satan will establish churchs and maintain them. So they think any Spirit that leads you to God, must be from God. This serious error is a leading cause of the Adulteration of Gods word. Thinking that all forms of light comes from God. Peace.

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Mickiel

In one sense Adultry, is getting involved in a relationship when you are already involved in another. So you mix the two together. Your " Mixing things", combining Juices and words with two different sources. Its an admixture, an amalgamation that you have joined. There is a transfusion taking place, a hotchpotch, a jumble of Jucies. The Adulteration of Gods Word, is at its root, a combination of Gods creative Jucies with satans creative jucies. This creates " A Mongrel", or a Hybrid understanding. Thus we have being produced, " A Mongrelization of Gods Word." A " Half and Half" cross of promiscuous indiscriminate knowledge which has spawned whole generations of conjoined doctrines. Peace.

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Mickiel

Adulterating Gods Word has an interesting dynamic that I think can be quite confusing. While on the one end, God does not want his philosophy to be mixed with satans, yet on the other end he does it , to a certain extent. And on the surface, that is contridiction. Any study of the Wheat and the Tares, ( Matt.13:24-30), or a careful examination of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil created and contained within the same tree, or environment, shows this obvious contridiction, this most unusual contrast.

So what does this mean? Why this contridiction of God not wanting things mixed up, but yet mixing them up himself? And I want to examine that very closely. Peace.

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Mickiel

The Mongrelization of humanity began in Eden. Mongrelization of both breed and Knowledge. Mongrelization, or the mixing of things, was already prepared BEFORE Adam was prepared. This point could be argued, but I think Eden was " Prepared for Adam", not Adam prepared for Eden. You can see this in Gen. 2nd chapter, a careful study of it. God focused a lot of attention on preparing Eden, and created and " Caused to grow" the Tree ( or the Environment) of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This Tree represents Gods Mongrelization of the human environment. All mixed breeds, be that Race, orgin of Race, or even nature itself, were all mongrelized here, a " Seed of Mixture Planted."

Look at Genesis 1:11. Here God creates vegetation, or plants, and he created them to " Yeild Seeds", with seed both " In them", and on the earth. And the earth began to " Produce and reproduce", and this was Good in Gods Mind. Each thing yeilding seed " After its own Kind." Creating Light and Darkness, again the contrast, the mix, the mongrelization of Humanity, AND the Earth which is to be our home. Jesus spoke a lot about " Seed" and used the analogy quite often in Matthews 13: 19-38, 17:20, in Mark Chapters 4, and 12. But look at what he does with it in Luke chapter 8.

He first speaks about what negative things can happen to the seed. It can get trampled on under foot, birds can eat it up, it can be interfered with by rocks and wither from lack of moisture. And other seeds fell into the " Thorns" and " Grew up with it" and it choked it out. But the seed that fell on " Good Soil" and " Grew up", produced a crop a hundred times as great! This is both the intentional Spiritual Stagnation of Humanity, and the Spiritual potential of humanity. So he who has ears to hear, let them hear what? What message is contained within this delima?

Well Jesus answers this in Matt.8:10;" To you it has been Granted to know the Mysteries of " The Kingdom of God", but to the rest it is " In" parables ( Like the seed is " In" the Earth). Then Christ goes on in vs. 11, " The Seed IS the Word of God." And the Seed IS on the Earth. This means that the Truth can be corrupted by things on the Earth. It can be " Hidden on the Earth", affected by the Earth, choked out by those on the Earth, BUT, it IS related to the Earth, the same Earth that bore Eden, the same Eden that bore the Earth.

The Adulteration of Gods word was a well thought out " Re-accuring Process." In 1Pet. 23, Peter discusses two kinds of " Seed", one perishable, and another " Imperishable". Notice the " Imperishable Seed" is " Through the Living Word of God." And I want to get into that some. Peace.

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Mickiel

Notice 2 Corinth. 2:17; " For we are not like many, " Peddling the Word of God", but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the Sight of God." This is a very powerful scripture, touching on some dynamic points of intrest. Peddling the Word of God, or going around trying to sell it, or make it a " Business", is happening all over the globe. At its root, its really " Trifling." Trifling, or a mockery steeped in deception. Making mockery of a great literary work as the Word of God! Putting on frivolus " Spiritual Shows", tinkering with Gods word as if it were a toy to be played with. Distorting the Gospel of Christ, Gal.1:7.

It is an Adulteration of Gods Word to Peddle it. Or to preach and Teach it in a way that is contridiction to its original intent. And thats where so much confusion comes into play, not understanding its original intent. Peace.

This really isn't a forum for debates about what the Bible is or isn't, but I would like to point out that the phrase "Word of God" found in the Bible is not referring to what we call 'the Bible' as the Bible did not exist when the references were made. The "Word of God" existed before the world began and created the worlds. Yes, God's message is contained in the books of the Bible, AND any place else the truth of God is written down or spoken.

First brother Byron, the "Bible" is far too general a term to label that which is GOD'S WORD... And I agree that the MESSAGE of TRUTH which is GOD's WORD is found WITHIN IT... however... that TRUTH is NOT available to just anyone, nor is it available to one who is UNDEVOTED as an INDIVIDUAL...

Which, by RELIGION (enabling one to be lazily undevoted), has resulted in MAN decieving MAN... done via the "hand-me-down" philosphies gained by "Bible students" which are thereby without question, accepted by the undevoted as TRUTH.

This ADVERSE practice and acceptance, has certainly opened the doorway through which has entered, the confusion and separations we see (even within Christianity), today...

The "Bible" itself, is NOT the WORD of GOD in it's purity, but if we are to base our beliefs on the WORD of GOD, it is the only reference (in my observation) upon which we can find and base TRUTH for those beliefs...

Otherwise, anyone can say anything and subsequently label it to be TRUTH, and we can thereby resort to any writing which we desire to substanciate ourselves and our beliefs...

That the "Bible" is found translated in many different versions and conveys in those many versions, often CONTRARY meanings ...soon becomes obvious to the searching/devoted student...

And that is why tools EXTERNAL of it, have been provided by GOD such as Strongs... enabling the one devoted to find out what TRUTH actually IS... because this devoted student has a "tool" with which to decipher the ORIGINAL meanings of Greek and Hebrew words which have been translated into ENGLISH by others...

That the "Bible" has been added to, and taken from in the process of it's COPYING through the ages, and then by TRANSLATION, is the effect of MAN's WORK which is found still firmly dipped in EVIL...

But that it STILL contains TRUTH (after all that tampering) upon which we can base our LOVE and TRUST of GOD, is HIS WORK of LOVE and HOLINESS to maintain that TRUTH... Despite the sometimes PURPOSED, and sometimes NAIEVE, DECEPTION within NATURAL (not SPIRITUAL) MEN...

In conclusion... GOD's WORD ...DID... create the World, and that WORD ...IS... contained IN the "Bible"...

As JESUS said: (John 5:39)search the Scriptures for INTHEM ye think ye have [eternal] LIFE... and THEY are they which TESTIFY of ME..

In the moment of TIME, that JESUS spoke these words, the New Testament did not yet exist... but The NT is also "THEY" which TESTIFY of CHRIST...

jabcat

IMO, Jesus manifesting the logos in flesh does not of necessity then negate the logos from also continuing to be "the Word" as well. Ps. 119:89, "thy Word (logos) is settled in the heavens to the ages"...IMO, God's thoughts, Son, and logos are "the Word"...in essence, the Truth(s) of God. Carry on Mickiel .

« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 01:06:00 AM by jabcat »

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Mickiel

I often question my own motivation for sharing what I believe about God everywhere that I do. I think part of my motivation, is the irritation I get from two things; How people are peddling the distorted versions of the Word of God, and secondly, the growing pressence of how I see it myself, and how much I differ with what is being said. It really gets on my nerve sometimes what others are saying about God, but you know, what can you do about it?

Well if you don't like whats being said, then you need to say something yourself. If you stand around while people are rapeing the word of God, and your saying nothing about it, then your just a witness to the rape, instead of being a witness for God. I know I get others mad at just how I witness to this Truth, and many disagree with me, but I refuse to remain silent while they talk their faces off.

Remaining silent while others Adulterate Gods Word, is being a witness to the Adulteration, and refuseing to witness for God.

People can accuse me of preaching or teaching, distorting or being a heretic, it no longers matters to me, I will speak my share of what I know to be the truth until the day I die. I don't care how much sin is in my life, I will speak, I don't care how much I do not know God, I will speak. Everyday of my life will be spent witnessing this truth in some manner.

Now if I am going to do this, willing to do this, then I can approach God and ask him to keep me from Adulterating his Word. AND, ask him for more understanding, AND, ask him to bless my mind to do this in a healthy manner for both myself AND others. AND, ask him to give me wisdom and Knowledge, AND, ask him to give me a discerning mind toward his Word, AND I can ask to get to know HIM better, thus I could explain him better, AND ask him to not let my mind be deceived in ANY manner! AND, the list goes on and on.

I don't want to Adulterate Gods Word. I don't want to put out anything that is not true, but you have GOT TO take this VERY personal. No matter what is TEMPTING you to remain silent, you CANNOT allow Gods Word to be raped on a daily basics, and just sit there with your mouth shut! While the Word is being Adulterated.

Get this in your Spirit! Open your mouth and witness to this truth you understand. Don't let the world get away with this Rape!

Develop a " Witnessing Relationship " With God. Ask him to show you how to do it. The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are so few.Peace.

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Average_Bear

In 2Corinth.4:2, an interesting choice of words is used, " But we have renounced the things hidden because of shame , not walking in craftiness or Adulterating the Word of God." Now understand that Adulterate means to debase or deteriorate by an admixture of foreign or baser materials.

I wouldn't say that mainstream churches do not teach the truth, many of them do. The problem is that many adulterate - as you point out - add so many things to the word. Here are just a few I've noticed:

God is a trinity of three persons

I believe there may be some truth in trinity doctrine, but it is at best man's attempt to explain God's nature.Hell is eternal

This belief attempts to negate the work of Christ

New Testament Christians are commanded to give ten percent of their gross income to the local church

Give as much as you want - but their is no command for Christians to tithe.

Perish means eternal torment

While it's true that perish does not mean annihilation, no where can it be taken to mean eternal torment

If you are intimate enough with Jesus to call him your personal savior, that's great. But he is never called a personal savior in the Bible. In fact he is called something quite the opposite - the savior of the world

The Bible is the Word of God

Only Jesus is called the Word (of God)

You must choose the gift of salvation

I don't get this one at all He chooses us, he draws all unto himself. We are saved because - God can save us, God wants to save us, and we need to be saved.

Salvation is by grace, but not really. You have to do this or that, or believe this doctrine, or say this prayer, etc.

How many people out there really believe in salvation by grace alone?

Salvation means going to heaven when you die

That's what a lady said to a group of kids at VBS I went to recently. What!! Kids don't think about dying. You may as well try to get kids excited about retirement planning. Salvation is for the here and now first.Salvation means salvation from hell

Chapter and verse? Please

Death seals you fate.

In my opinion, the vast majority of scripture is about the here and now and it seems to leave the question of life after this one mostly unanswered.

When the Apostle Paul says "all", it only means all when it refers to judgment, punishment, etc. But when it implies salvation of all, it doesn't really mean all.

All means all.

Salvation of all scriptures must be interpreted in light of judgment, wrath, and condemnation scriptures rather than the other way around.

Why not the other way around?

I could list many more...and so could you

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Mickiel

This really isn't a forum for debates about what the Bible is or isn't, but I would like to point out that the phrase "Word of God" found in the Bible is not referring to what we call 'the Bible' as the Bible did not exist when the references were made. The "Word of God" existed before the world began and created the worlds. Yes, God's message is contained in the books of the Bible, AND any place else the truth of God is written down or spoken.

The Bible has definitely changed the world, but it did not create the world.

Again, I am not engaging in textual criticism here, but am just referring to what YOUR Bible accurately calls the "Word of God".

blessings, - Byron

Well I disagree with this, although I understand it. The Bible is the Word of God, in my view. But now I understand the effort to make it " Not be the Word of God", by using whatever source of reasonings one may choose to use. I myself simply disagree with those reasonings.

Peace.

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jabcat

IMO, Jesus manifesting the logos in flesh does not of necessity then negate the logos from also continuing to be "the Word" as well. Ps. 119:89, "thy Word (logos) is settled in the heavens to the ages"...IMO, God's thoughts, Son, and logos are "the Word"...in essence, the Truth(s) of God.

Some truly haven't realized what scripture says about the logos, while others espouse that POV as it fits their desire to deny much of scripture as being inspired...and IMO, unfortunately it's the latter that are negatively affecting the former, as some are innocently confused and/or misinformed, meaning no harm. It's just their current understanding, but again, IMO, having their view negatively affected by false teachers. If I'm wrong, God will eventually show me. But I do have a very personal testimony of how He led me back to an acceptance and reverence of scripture as His Word, through the very clear conviction and leadership of the Holy Spirit. My .

Well again, I hold no quarrell with how others view the Bible, its enough of Gods Word in it to suite me. What it says to others, is for them, and whoever they think is saying it. But its how God speaks to me, and I have not evolved beyond that.

Peace.

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Mickiel

I must sadly say that this recent advent of people saying that the bible is not the Word of God, is something new to me. You talk about a timely post, I just happen to be sharing about the Adulteration of the Word of God. Jesus in John 12:49 reveals that everything he Spoke, he did so by the direct commandment of God, and not his own views. So everything Jesus said is the Word of God. And the bible is full of places where God spoke himself, so this " New Teaching" that the bible is not the Word of God, in my view, is an Adulteration of Gods Word.

And I am very surprised by it, its kind of like;" What will they come up with Next!"

I tell you, some of us just grab hold of any doctrine and just let it pick your mind up like a wave and take you all kinds of places.