Amway Sucks! Quixtar Sucks! Alticor Sucks!

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I’m no fan of multi-level marketing companies (MLMs), and Amway – Quixtar – Alticor is the mother of all MLMs. Amway Corporation was founded in 1959 by Rich DeVos and Jay Van Andel. It was originally called Ja-Ri Corporation, and the name was changed to Amway in 1963.

A reorganization occurred in 1999, through which Alticor became the holding company for Amway, an internet-based company called Quixtar, Access Business Group, and Pyxis Innovations. In 2001, the Quixtar name replaced “Amway” for the North American MLM business. (They were apparently trying to get away from all the negative feelings associated with “Amway.”)

The Amway name was retained in the rest of the world. In 2007, the company announced that the Quixtar name would be phased out, and the Amway name would again be used worldwide. Alticor reported sales of $7.2 billion in 2007.

Amway and Quixtar sell these brand names: Artistry Skin Care and Color Cosmetics, Nutrilite Vitamins and Food Supplements, the eSpring Water Purifying System, and the SA8 Laundry System products.

Recently Amway has started a massive public relations campaign that seeks to change the negative image people have of Amway and Quixtar. What’s so negative about this company? For starters, many people believe the company runs a barely-legal pyramid scheme. While the products are touted, the real business is the business of recruiting new people into the scheme.

There’s also a “tools” business that fuels the negative image of Amway and Quixtar. People in the upper levels of the distributor chain are known to make a ton of money selling motivational tapes and books, both of which do little to help anyone be successful with this MLM. Yet hopeful distributors pour money into these items month after month, looking for the key that will unlock the door to financial freedom for them.

According to Quixtar scam’s own disclosure document the average monthly gross income for an “active” IBO is $115 (or $1,380 annually).

In the Amway scam business, only 41% meet these criteria as being “active.” This also means that 59% of all distributors are NOT active.A with a business where over half of all the people aren’t doing anything to increase their business?

Out of ALL distributors, only 0.82% qualifies as a Direct-level distributor. This means that 99.18% of all distributors do not qualify as a Direct-level distributor.A company where 99.18% are unsuccessful.

If you are earning 70$ per month you are in the top 11% of earners at Amway & Quixtar scam.

No source is cited for these statistics, but they make sense in light of other studies done on the company. Multi-level marketing expert Robert FitzPatrick recently released a report on 11 MLMs, including Amway. He found that over 99% of distributors for Amway/Quixtar do not turn a profit.

Some details of FitzPatrick’s findings:

0.9% (1 in 111) of distributors received 24% of the commission payout

Amway/Quixtar is the most controversial of all MLMs. Numerous private lawsuits, class action lawsuits and many consumer protest and exposé websites all charge deception about the income opportunity and the operation of a harmful pyramid scheme.

A recent lawsuit brought against Amway by a group of its top level distributors claimed the Amway is an illegal pyramid, that its products are too highly priced to be retailed and that less than 4% of it products are ever purchased by retail customers. All others are purchased only by the distributors, who are on the pyramid chain.

The average payout per distributor in 2001 was $1,380, with the kingpins averaging $36,321 and the lower levels averaging $1,060.

34% of recruits earn no commissions at all

The bottom 99.4% of the all distributors earned on average just $12.19 per week — before product purchases and all business expenses. This average income is far less than the costs of running the business. This means that more than 99% make no profit.

In real numbers, approximately 497,000 out of 500,000 are in losing positions at the bottom of the chain. Despite the massive losses among the salespeople, Amway advertises itself as the “greatest business in the world!”

FitzPatrick also mentions the tools business of the Quixtar/Amway kingpins:

As the report showed, the Amway “kingpins” make most of their money by deceptively recruiting people, not from selling Amway products. At recruitment meetings the kingpins claim that they have become wealthy in the Amway business and that new recruits can also gain this wealth by joining the company as distributors (called IBOs). In fact, these kingpins are gaining huge profits from selling books, tapes and seminars to new recruits, which they tell them are needed in order to achieve “success.” In reality, many at the top levels are in a net loss position (after expenses) from their Amway business. They are profiting only from money gained from recruiting program itself.

Former Amway distributor Eric Scheibeler recounts his experience with the company in his book, Merchants of Deception. Eric and his wife made it to the level of Founder’s Emerald, and worked for almost ten years to build their “business.” While with Amway Quixtar, Scheibeler reports that the following happened:

… I inadvertently discovered what documentation now appears to reveal as two decades of systematic, global fraud running into a sum currently in excess of forty billion dollars. When I initially discovered the deception, I naively thought it only involved Kingpin level distributors in the field. I immediately reported it to Amway/Quixtar senior management with nearly 50 pages of corroborating documentation. The documentation of the fraud was also reported directly to then President Dick DeVos (incredulously now running for Governor of Michigan) by both fax and certified mail. What was the response under Dick DeVos’ leadership? The details are well documented in the book which includes the correspondence sent directly to Mr. DeVos.

Their response was more shocking than the fraud I had discovered. Instead of taking action against the Kingpin level distributors that were clearly defrauding the masses, they began to make threats of taking punitive action against me. Fortunately, I had them do it all in writing. I had begun to make details of the deception known to other distributors, to whom I was accountable. Quixtar ultimately shut off my sole income in what appeared to be an effort to starve me into silence.

There is no legitimate “business opportunity” with a near 100% loss rate for participants. This appears to have been a well organized investment scam, which has culled billions from the public, for the last twenty years. The truth is in the tax returns of the IBO victims and Amway/Quixtar may soon be forced to make those public. If you are contacted by anyone to see Amway or Quixtar, ask them for their last three years tax returns before you consider investing a penny of your money or time into “the business”. Ask them if you will be expected to spend near $6,000 a year on Amway or Quixtar products, books, tapes, CD’s, DVD’s seminars, travel, phone bills, hotels, online services, e-commerce meetings, training sessions and voice mail systems to receive your “average IBO income” of about $115 a month.

So why do I think that Amway Quixtar Alticor suck?

They use religion to convince people that the scheme is legitimate and the recruiters are looking out for “your best interest.”

It is my opinion that the Amway business is run in a manner that is parallel to that of major organized crime groups, in particular the Mafia. The structure and function of major organized crime groups, generally consisting of associated enterprises engaging in patterns of legal and illegal activity, was the prototype forming the basis for federal and state racketeering legislation that I have been involved in drafting. The same structure and function, with associated enterprises engaging in patterns of legal and illegal activity, is found in the Amway business.

All good MLM members are taught to stay away from negative people. Ignore the naysayers. They’re just losers who wanted a get-rich-quick scheme and didn’t work hard and are generally lazy. They want to steal your dreams. It’s all a grand scheme to convince Amway members that they should not listen to logic and reason. After all, they have to pretend Amway Quixtar is a good business or they couldn’t sell it to others, right?

The company is a garden variety multi-level marketing company that uses questionable tactics to take money from consumers. That $7 billion the company pulls in each year? 99% of participants lose money and have no hope of turning a profit, yet they are filling the pockets of the owners and highest level of distributors… usually with hard-earned money that should go to feed their families.

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26 thoughts on “Amway Sucks! Quixtar Sucks! Alticor Sucks!”

The Words of “One Tin Soldier” sum up this truly pernicious business cult”

Listen, children, to a story
That was written long ago
About a Kingdom on a mountain
And a valley folk down below.

On the mountain was a treasure
Buried deep beneath a stone
And the valley people swore
They’d have it for their very own.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor.
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of heaven.
You can justify it in the end.

But there won’t be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgment day.
On the bloody morning after
One tin soldier rides away.

At the end of this song, the valley people turn over the stone where the treasure was supposed to be. Do you remember what they found?

That’s right, nothing but a broken dream and a message “Peace on Earth” is all it said. It is my heart felt desire that this message be told and that people in harms way be warned. I feel like that One Tin Soldier that rides away. Why did he ride away, so he could tell the world about the treasure.

People locked into the grind of living the dream blind themselves while this company profits and the tool kingpin deceivers exact their own pound of flesh. Do they care when a family house gets foreclosed, and the wolf is at the door?
Quixtar/Amway can only hold out to these destitute believers a empty treasure chest to go with their now empty dream.

Amway’s current efforts at “reputation” rebuilding only to serve to continue the big con on their own distributors. Consumer, please be forewarned, these commercials don’t say it, but a recruitment scam lurks behind those Amway Global name tags. NOW YOU (REALLY) KNOW!

With all due respect, you missed the boat. The problem is the well documented tool scam, and NOT the other issues.

You misused various statistics. For example:

“According to Quixtar scam’s own disclosure document the average monthly gross income for an “active” IBO is $115 (or $1,380 annually).” —- That’s because most IBO’s don’t do anything, or get ripped off by the tool scam while trying to do something.

“In the Amway scam business, only 41% meet these criteria as being “active.” This also means that 59% of all distributors are NOT active.A with a business where over half of all the people aren’t doing anything to increase their business?” —– Some of these people are lazy, changed their minds, got blown out when they got rejected by their friend/neighbor, etc. The real problem is many of them got ripped off by the tool scam (as well as any small downline that is nearly impossible to keep in for the same reason), and are still technically IBO’s, and probably like some of the products, so they keep their IBO number in order to buy at lower prices.

Out of ALL distributors, only 0.82% qualifies as a Direct-level distributor. This means that 99.18% of all distributors do not qualify as a Direct-level distributor.A company where 99.18% are unsuccessful. —- If it takes over 100 IBO’s to create a single Direct (now called Platinum), this is exactly what the percentage SHOULD be. This statistic is not a prediction of future success, it is a snapshot of the business in a moment in time.

If you are earning 70$ per month you are in the top 11% of earners at Amway & Quixtar scam. —- See above.

I could go on, but your various sources are also dog-paddling in the ocean.

Please don’t take this personally, but in the spirit of the upcoming Presidential election, “It’s the tool scam, stupid.” Focus, focus, focus.

No, Tex, YOU have missed the boat. If you think that 99%+ of people lose money in Amway because they’re lazy losers who don’t try, then you’re truly brainwashed. Yes, there are some who don’t try. But it’s not 99%.

You’re trying to use those “active” statistics to suggest that people aren’t trying. Your logic says that if only 41% are active, then the other 59% aren’t trying. How on earth would you know any such thing? How could you know about their past or present efforts in Away.

I NEVER said 99%+ lose money because they are “lazy losers”, I said there are a variety of reasons. YOU are mixing up a bunch of statistics and not critically examining what is happening. The FACT is the tool scam takes advantage of the other reasons why many IBO’s don’t turn a profit and has been able to hide in the background rather than being singled out as THE major problem. I don’t expect all IBO’s to stay in if the tool scam is fixed, but the current state of affairs allows the LCK’s to go on their merry way, except in the UK, of course.

Do YOU know what the definition of “active” is? The threshold is VERY low, and I wouldn’t consider the definition as anything approaching “active.”

The tool scam is THE problem, and people like you who twist and turn statistics are another problem.

I noticed you didn’t respond to my specifics, I assume because you realize I am right and have nothing to offer to the contrary, except your emotional diatribe.

“With all due respect, you missed the boat. The problem is the well documented tool scam, and NOT the other issues.”

>> Even if the tool scam a well documented problem, it doesn’t mean there are not other problems, I guess.

—–

“According to Quixtar scam’s own disclosure document the average monthly gross income for an “active” IBO is $115 (or $1,380 annually).” —- That’s because most IBO’s don’t do anything, or get ripped off by the tool scam while trying to do something.

>> We really don’t know that, do we?

Let’s rephrase the statement: “Regardless of what IBO’s do or not do about their business, try as they might, or lazy as they fall, the average monthly gross income for an “active” IBO STILL is $115 (or $1,380 annually)”.

—————-

“In the Amway scam business, only 41% meet these criteria as being “active.” This also means that 59% of all distributors are NOT active.A with a business where over half of all the people aren’t doing anything to increase their business?” —– Some of these people are lazy, changed their minds, got blown out when they got rejected by their friend/neighbor, etc. The real problem is many of them got ripped off by the tool scam (as well as any small downline that is nearly impossible to keep in for the same reason), and are still technically IBO’s, and probably like some of the products, so they keep their IBO number in order to buy at lower prices.

>> I don’t see why these numbers should be left out of the statistics, keeping in mind what I’ve stated in the answer above.

I think IBO’s get ripped off both ways…

——

Out of ALL distributors, only 0.82% qualifies as a Direct-level distributor. This means that 99.18% of all distributors do not qualify as a Direct-level distributor.A company where 99.18% are unsuccessful. —- If it takes over 100 IBO’s to create a single Direct (now called Platinum), this is exactly what the percentage SHOULD be. This statistic is not a prediction of future success, it is a snapshot of the business in a moment in time.

“Also, we need to get organized and ALL submit complaints to the FTC, our Senators/Representatives, Attorneys General, etc.”

>>> Now a question: how much can you trust FTC? I mean, Amway has been around for decades, the 1979 lawsuit defined rules that are clearly obsolete nowadays, but I don’t see FTC much worried about investigating, closing down or sanction many (or almost any) MLM-pyramid-look-alikes.

From this distance, I find USA’s approach on this subject a really big mess. You have a “Fair Trading Act” where pyramid schemes should fit in somehow, even if there isn’t a simple definition or explanation on what they are exactly or how they should be targeted (but you do have zillions of approaches on the matter); then you have each of your 52 states with different approaches on the matter (“here it is legal, but across the border it is a scam”); and finally it looks like nobody is trying hard enough to enforce the law – the estate only acts when a lot of people decide to complain, and then you have a lawsuit once in a while, which almost certainly will never reach a conviction, for whatever reason that is.

Tex – This is the last time you will be abusive and insulting on this site. I normally do not allow as much latitude to MLM-lovers as I have to you, but that will come to an end if you continue this way.

Yes, the threshold for active is very low, but that still doesn’t validate the cause-and-effect that you’re promoting. Your observation is incorrect.

I have studied MLMs in great depth, and the 99% failure rate is detrimental to consumers. Millions of consumers lose billions of dollars to MLMs each year. Yes, LOSE. They get almost nothing for their money.

I’ve critically examined the MLM business model and it stinks.

There’s nothing “emotional” about this post. It deals in facts about MLMs, specifically Amway. I’m sorry that I didn’t respond to your flawed analysis of the statistics. What can I say except I reject your analysis? 99% failure means 99% failure, and there’s no way to spin that into a good thing, as you’ve tried to do.

I’m trying to “shake” you into thinking why you and many other critics can’t make headway with this issue.

If you are against MLM in general, I feel sorry for you, because you obviously are comparing MLM to perfection rather than traditional businesses, which also have a high failure rate.

You were the one trying to make something significant out of being active, not me. I was merely pointing out how low the threshold is, and therefore using this statistic does not provide much insight.

You can reject my analysis, but I stated reasons why your “analysis” is flawed, and you had no reasons to support why I am wrong. Just that you have “studied” the MLM model with flawed logic and came to flawed conclusions. GI-GO (Garbage In – Garbage Out).

I never said 99% failure is a good thing, only the reasons for it allow the LCK’s to clean via the tool scam while the “critics” spin their wheels.

You won’t have to “ban” me Tracy, I won’t post here unless there is something meaningful to comment on. I’ve been “banned” from many sites, and I always pop up somewhere else.

Tex wrote: “That’s because most IBO’s don’t do anything, or get ripped off by the tool scam while trying to do something.”

Tracy responds: You have no proof of that.

Tex wrote: “Some of these people are lazy, changed their minds, got blown out when they got rejected by their friend/neighbor, etc. The real problem is many of them got ripped off by the tool scam”

Tracy responds: You have no proof of that.

Tex wrote: “If it takes over 100 IBO’s to create a single Direct (now called Platinum), this is exactly what the percentage SHOULD be. This statistic is not a prediction of future success, it is a snapshot of the business in a moment in time.”

Tracy responds: Historically 99% of people in MLMs lose money. This statistic has never changed. That’s a pretty good indicator of what’s going to happen in the future – 99% will fail.

You really have nothing substantive supporting any of your claims. All you have is the ability to call others stupid. That’s not going to get you very far here.

I have plenty of proof of my statement, “That’s because most IBO’s don’t do anything, or get ripped off by the tool scam while trying to do something.” This is my PERSONAL experience, the similar experience of MANY former IBO’s on various blogs, and I have a well documented list of documents that PROVE the upline make SEVERAL more times via the tools than A/Q, AND most IBO’s don’t generally get to a net profit scenario until they get to about the Platinum level. I encourage you to read all of the documents found here: http://quixtarisacultintervention.blogspot.com/2008/07/deep-throat-big-hat-blows-covers-off-of.html No wonder most IBO’s quit. It all points to the tool scam.

Tracy, I was scammed for 12 YEARS, and have been researching the tool scam for the past 3 years. You may know a lot of generic information, but I ensure you I have LIVED this business and would put my practical experience coupled with my in-depth and informed research against your generic research ANY day.

Your misuse of the 99% Direct (Platinum) statistic again shows your lack of understanding. Just because an IBO isn’t a Platinum or above does NOT make them a “failure”, but together with the tool scam they certainly will be operating at a net loss.

The “stupid” quote was well referenced to the past campaign slogan regarding the economy, I thought I made that and the fact that you were NOT to take it personally VERY clear. In the context it was CLEARLY made, the word “stupid” means “uninformed” or “misinformed”, not the traditional meaning of “stupid.”

The bottom 99.4% of the all distributors earned on average just $12.19 per week — before product purchases and all business expenses. This average income is far less than the costs of running the business. This means that more than 99% make no profit.

If you are against MLM in general, I feel sorry for you, because you obviously are comparing MLM to perfection rather than traditional businesses, which also have a high failure rate.

Incorrect, as usual. Please find where 99% of real businesses don’t make any money.

And again, please read the studies that are abused which say most of the businesses that are started are not in existence 5 years later. The ‘tools’ tell you it is because they failed. The actual information tells you tells you the real story – ‘most’ businesses do quite well and aren’t in existence after 5 years because they are sold, closed because the demand was met (with profit), and closed because the owner used that business to begin something else (with profit). Some do fail, but not with the almost sure rate of failure with this particular MLM.

Right now, the British government is trying to shut ‘Amway UK’ down in the ‘interest of the British public. ‘ On paper, ‘Amway UK Ltd.’ has never made a profit . It’s lost over $50 million in the last 8 years, but the chronically sick company is paying out millions of dollars more to attorneys to keep it alive. This doesn’t make any sense until you understand what’s hiding behind the MLM façade. The real money, which is probably hundreds of millions of dollars in the UK, has been made from selling the lie that ‘anyone can achieve financial freedom in 2-5 years. ‘ The whole set up is an advanced fee fraud using essentially the same tactics as the Nigerian Bank scam. ‘Amway’ is the bait. Victims are led to believe there’s a fat packet of money to collect, but they’ve first to hand over their own cash in order to get it.

Let’s face it, If MLM worked, there would be no need for all the supporting materials .

The tools scam is Tex’s priority and he thinks that everyoen else needs to get with hsi program. Not true, the busienss has many issues, some of which have nothing to do with tools. The business model is set up so that the majority do the work to profit the minority.

I’m a part-time Quixtar IBO and also own a Internet business. Quixtar is a legit mlm business but to succeed in it is very hard. Many people in the business do not “totally” understand that business is mostly about money and profit. If you are a Quixtar IBO making $1,000 a month but you are spending $2,000 a month buying their overpriced core products, you will not be in business for long. This is what happens to many people in the business, I heard of IBOs at the 4,000 pv level quitting because they are not making profit.

I’m a person that is very open minded but I’m also a critical thinker and very independent. While in the biz, I studied my upline and other IBOs very closely. A few things that I noticed about the active Quixtar IBOs is that they believe in the system way too much that they don’t see the flaws. It’s almost like they are brainwashed (meant this in a nice way). In order to build a successful business, you first need to build it on faith because you are not going to see results right away. You need to be persistence, committed and very patient…if you are going to invest less than 20 hours per a week in the biz. You are better off quitting because you will most likely fail. Then again, any true business owners know that failing is a good thing in business because that means you are one step closer to succeeding!

I followed my upline for about 6 months and did not like the results so I took my own path. I ended up combining all the knowledge I learned from my upline with my knowledge and found a way to “better the wheel”. After 3 months of going on my own, I started to break even at the 300 pv level. I did this by canceling the CDs and other unnecessary cost, signing up more customers, and finding more effective way to find “targeted” customers and potential IBOs. The trick is to have people invest their time in you instead of you investing your time in them. Easier said then done!

Every mlm business has its flaws because there are always people in the business that will take advantage of you. If you think that the Quixtar biz is a gift from heaven then you are just lying to yourself. To all Quixtar IBOs – you are no better than anybody else. If you do become successful, remember that the reason why you are successful is because of other people in the world. Without them you are nothing! Treat everybody like they are multi-millionaires and you might one day become one. Peace!

Forgot two thing:
1. If you are a Quixtar IBO, you are actually not a Independent Business Owner but more of a distributor. As a Quixtar IBO, Quixtar pretty much owns you. If you do not follow their rules of conduct…bye bye! Quixtar changed the name to IBO because it just sounds more “professional”.

2. The amount of money claimed by platinum, emeralds and diamonds make per year is bogus. Some diamonds say they make over $200,000 per year but they are lucky if they make 6 figures. If we are talking about profit (revenue – cost) then the amount of money they make is even less. Sorry to disappoint you all.

After I read all post, I don’t know that why most of IBO that do business need to use tools or cd and spend a lot of money for it?. you think that if you buy all that things, It will make you fast success in business then you buy it ?
It’s a business , if you want to do business it has many way to do, many way to think of how to do. Selling product or buy tools or cd to help you success isn’t the only way in the world that make you success.
Everyone can do many way to make they gain not loss in business.
This business , it allow you to build you business from low investment to get higher return not high investment to get low return.
++So if you think that buy all that tools or cd make you lost. Why don’t you skip it and think how to business by low investment to get high return.
I’m not in your country so I don’t know the way you guy thinking of doing business.
But I can told you that If you can find the way to low investment to got high return like my group. you will be happy with you business and your group and you will be happy that you don’t need sell a lot of product or by expensive tools that make you lost.
Best reguard
ps. if you can do like me even you didn’t reach DD you can gain income not loss = =

good work tracy. I am a business blogger with no pro- or con- affiliation with Amway. I have written and researched extensively about Amway the past 10 days on my blog, http://www.2035crash.com. Amway is in the RETAIL business. NO ONE has to twist my arm to go buy a foot-long sub, ipod, or flat-panel TV. If the retail case and business model for Amway was so great, people would be lined up around the block to buy the product, and IBOs would not be trying to build a downline. Rather, they would put efforts into trying to consolidate their target market. With the internet, who needs a downline? If the product was so good, then I could drive traffic to my own site and collect retail commissions all for myself, without having to pay any bonuses out to a downline apparatus. Bottom line: Amway Global is only $7B of annualized sales. Walmart is $400B. even Avon, just selling cosmetics, is $10B. Amway’s line of cosmetics, Artistry, is only worth $1B/year, or 10% the size of Avon. Amway North America is only $1B a year of total sales, which isn’t even worth mentioning in the largest retail market in the world: North America.

This is RETAIL. If your product is so good, why in the world does your sales force need TOOLS to help you sell it?

Listen, its simple. If your not capable of taking responsibility for your own decisions such as getting into MLM or any other business opportunity for that matter, then don’t do it. Success or failure is not chance or luck, nor is it tied to specific rules, tools, or fools.

Speaking of pyramids and scams have you taken a look at your company’s organization chart lately?? And who strated that hype about spending your career investing in your company and retiring safely after 20 years?

Free enterprise is the backbone of this country. I applaud those who have the guts to keep trying even against the odds. God knows its no less secure than corporate America. What have we got to lose??? Our jobs??

Ok I am currently a college student looking into becoming an IBO and have heard the “Amway is the key to success” side so i decided to check out the other side of the argument just for kicks and giggles only to find all these sites calling this company a pyramid scam and so forth…my only input is it is a “BUSINESS” run it like one… If you do not create enough income to purchase your CD’s or “Tools” with your pure profit then don’t purchase them… It is simple do not spend more than you make…3rd grade economics here… Even if every single person in the company is telling you that you have to have the newest CD doesn’t mean you have to buy it…. Of course you will never make an actual income if you spend more than you make… It is as simple as that run it just as any normal business person would don’t spend more than you make its that easy and if you do that you are guaranteed 100% that you will make profit…I can say this because if you use the purchasing of products correctly (buying the everyday products you would buy anyway ie from Walmart from yourself instead of another retail store you will then in return earn points thus earning you money) then you would not spend money on things that you wouldn’t normally buy anyways ie shampoo or deodorant… All i can say is it is purely that simple.. granted you probably wont make “Diamond” or Millions of dollars this way but you will make profit… and as a college student any amount of profit is more than i had to start with…

@Someone Important
It is easy to speak in your one-dimensional rationale, until you have some life experience under your belt. I do not question the logic of what you have written, but I do question the dogmatic way in which it is presented. It is indicative of your level of life experience. The unfortunate reality is that it is possible for people to be swayed by the “dream”, or by the ”hope” of a scenario that is being presented to them. Even more so, when it is done in the flesh, by people that claim to be living the life that you may be aspiring to. If those same people say that the path to emulate their success is to buy this product and attend that event, then that is what they believe to be the best way forward. The more so, when the investment has already been made and you have just started the business and want to see results.

@ThisThread
I am personally not as dogmatic as Tracy in her stance towards MLM.

I do believe in the validity of the concept of MLM.

My definition of a valid MLM idea is the following:
1. Direct selling with the opportunity to introduce other direct sellers, for which you earn a percentage of their sales.
2.A compensation plan whereby the money that would have been paid for advertising a product, is instead paid out to the people that are promoting the product, i.e. the distributors.
3. Those distributors have the ability to introduce other distributors. There is no need to, nor is there any pressure exerted to do so.
4. There is no joining fee to partake in the MLM. Purchase some products and go and sell.
5. The price of the product must be exactly the same as purchasing an equivalent product via a retail outlet.

Unfortunately, as with anything in life, the idea has been abused and misused.

OMG! You know there are actually people out there doing MLM businesses who do not feel they are being scammed; do not believe they are ripping anyone else off; are legitimately moving product and enjoying the process by openly offering the CHOICE to others to use or buy the products; have a large clientel of people who have CHOSEN to use the products because they actually LIKE them and are happy to CHOOSE those products over there on the shelf compeditors: have lots of FUN doing skincare and jewellery parties; LOVE the social life it gives them; do EARN some profit if they are careful not to spend more than they are earning; INVITE others to look at the business for themselves in there own time with a 100% 90 day money back guarantee if they want to quit; have people who then CHOOSE to stay in the business based on what they have researched for themselves; Have read all the stuff about pyramids etc and still DECIDE for themselves to do the business anyway because they love the ENVIRONMENT and THE PEOPLE in their team.
Amway has changed a lot of things to improve because it has listened to the issues that have been raised and changed the structures to make it easier for anyone to make money from this. I’m a bottom rung IBO and I am making a profit. And the core products are not over priced if you look carefully at the products at the same quality levels they competed with. I have reasearched this.

I love the people I associate with in this business and we all have such a good time. I am not a big money earner in this business and I don’t really care! Yes some of my friends in this business are doing quite well and are at the higher pin and income levels and many of them have taken many years to get there. Believe me I have seen them do the work themselves to get there too. I have the experience that when I don’t put in, I don’t get a return and that is a fact that is quite openly stated at the meetings I go to in our group. there is no scam. Everyone knows the statistics of success in this business and as you hang around and research you learn why many people don’t make a profit.

People, this is a business like any other. If you had a traditional business and did not go to work in it, did not make some capital investment in it, did not treat it as a business, do you think you would succeed? I have worked in a few different industries in my life and have owned 2 traditional businesses of my own. I know the work that has to be put into any business to succeed. I can tell you also that the tools are only there to give you information and most of that information revolves around how to improve your people, business, and your life skills. much of the information would actually have been very helful to me in my other business ventures where I have had to just stumble along by myself with no support from anyone, which is the case with starting on your own in most cases in traditional business. In the organisation of IBO’s that I am in, there is nothing but help support and good advice. It’s not for everyone. It does take some effort to do a direct selling bussiness. I fyou have the personallity to attract other people into the business as well and you spend some time helping them to succeed too, you are rewarded for the effort thorugh points. they have the opportunity to do the same.
This bussiness gave me the opportunity to get back into the workforce after a long illness, which I still suffer from. I had no initial outlay to get started other than redirecting my spending through my own business rather than through other retailers. I you think you can just sign up and make money doing nothing you are dreaming. No bussines will pay you for not doing enough to make it work. I have always had to work hard to make things work in business and this is not hard. it just comes down to how you look at it and how easily you give if you arn’e making big bucks straight away.

Some take many years to get the big money in this bussiness and I have also seen people who started at the same time as me, get to the big pin levels in just over 2 years. but I do not qhestion how hard they worked to get there. The ones that succeed are the ones that are doing most of the work by helping every individual do help themselves to do the same. you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.
My best friend told me when she saw3 me doing this bussiness that she wanted to have a go too. I signed her up and fed her as much information as I could. I gave her everything I could think of that might help her get started. I even gave her products to use which she loved. What did she contribute to her bussiness? NOTHING! and I am afraid to say that the vast majority will do not much more and this fact is well advised when you look into this business. Only those who treat it seriously and stay for long enough to see the fruits of their labour will succeed and this is not a secret in our organisation.
Good Luck to all and take care
Love from me xoxoxox