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Re: The control of Bitcoin can't come soon enough

Video: The cyber-currency has skyrocketed in value, but is it a sign of a new paradigm or speculative bubble? The Post’s Anthony Faiola fills us in from London.

By Caitlin Dewey,

Published: April 9

Loc Tran is selling an iPhone, but not for cash. On Saturday, the 22-year-old George Mason University student posted a brief ad to Craigslist: Brand new, unopened iPhone 5 for three Bitcoins. Not $390, the cash equivalent — three Bitcoins only.

“I saw an investment there,” Tran said. “If there’s more demand for bitcoins, the value will go up. So I could gain more value than the phone is actually worth.”

Re: The control of Bitcoin can't come soon enough

Bitcoin drama continues

Bitcoin, a new digital currency, lost more than US$160 (A$152) in value on Wednesday, just hours after hitting a record high.

The currency hit a new high of US$266 (A$252) before falling to US$105 and then bouncing back to US$130. At its low on Wednesday, the currency had lost some 60 percent of its value from the day’s peak.

The virtual currency went onto stage a sizeable comeback before getting slammed again.

What is Bitcoin?

Bitcoin is the new currency taking the world by storm and has seen its value surge more than 1000 per cent from around US$15 at the beginning of the year to current levels of around US$170

Bitcoin is a decentralised, anonymous, digital-only currency that's lately got a lot of public attention and sparked a trading frenzy.

Not managed like a typical currency, Bitcoin belongs to no particular country, is not minted on plastic, paper or metal and under the control of no central bank.

The biggest question everyone has had about Bitcoin in recent weeks, aside from how it works, is whether or not it's in a bubble and ready to crash.

How Bitcoin works

Bitcoin was originally developed in 2008 by a computer developer using the pseudonym "Satoshi Nakamoto", who published a paper describing how it could work.

Bitcoin generation is based on a highly complex computer algorithm, programmed to generate a fixed number of Bitcoins per unit of computing time.

By 2140, the total number of Bitcoins in circulation will be capped at 21 million.

In other words, the Bitcoin system is self-sustaining, coded to prevent inflation, and encrypted to prevent anyone from disrupting its code.

Bitcoins can be bought with money and they also can be "mined".

There are around 11m Bitcoins in circulation, 25 new bitcoins are produced every 10 minutes, and they are traded through online exchanges like Mt.Gox.

The Motley Fool Australia explains that obtaining Bitcoins is similar to opening an account through a bank. “All a user has to do is visit Bitinstant and convert a local currency into the virtual money. The currency is traded just like any other.”

Wednesday’s wild ride

The record high and subsequent crash experienced on Wednesday was potentially sparked by a Reddit user who gave away thousands of dollars worth of Bitcoins.

A Reddit user under the name"Bitcoinbillionaire" had given away US$13,627.69896 worth of Bitcoins to Reddit users over the day, reported Business Insider.

The mystery donor signed off with a quote from Ron Paul, libertarian politician and one-time would-be presidential candidate: "It's no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking."

For those that want to follow there is some good discussion on this board, I linked it to the thread I pulled the quotes from. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170762.0
Right now several threads are reading a lot like the Stock Message Boards did in 1999.

Re: The control of Bitcoin can't come soon enough

So transactions keychain is out there forever , if you were involved in something illegal it will follow you forever, one day you use an exchange with your credit card, or order something to be shipped, and thats how it's possible to put a name on your coins and cross match it with ceased coins from some illegal place (think of Ponzis you played with bitcoins and won, laundered some money and did not pay tax, paid for some illegal substance) the record will stay there forever.

Something makes me think that Satoshi might be a nickname for NSA, BitCoins is in fact most traceable transaction system ever created.

Re: The control of Bitcoin can't come soon enough

WOW, just crossed on CNBC Bitcoin closed at $75.51 to the USD, down from a high of $250 this week. Have heard a few stories of folks that backed up the truck to buy these things, bad week for them.

I was poking over on the Bitcoin forum linked above. One thing I will find interesting to watch is what happens with transactions that were made with BitCoins this week when the price was in the 200s. When Tulipmania came crashing down many were left with contracts that the counterparty had no intention of filling at the collapsed price. If memory serves the government got involved and voided a lot of the contracts. That was hundreds of years ago, what will happen now with people all over the world giving scouts honor with one hand and crossies with the other?

Re: The control of Bitcoin can't come soon enough

Well during lunch today as usual I was channel switching (to keep away from commercials) and caught the Bloomberg report on Bitcoins. So Wall St. is now pushing this thing and they were saying silicon city is getting in on the act? They were connecting it to the two guys who were in the fight for ownership/creator rights of Facebook. Seems they have put up a bunch of money in it. Sorry, names escape me and I wanted to give you guys something to do anyway, surely you are bored by ProSun and BB by now. For verification, I suppose you could check out Bloomberg online for info.

Re: The control of Bitcoin can't come soon enough

Originally Posted by scratchycat

Well during lunch today as usual I was channel switching (to keep away from commercials) and caught the Bloomberg report on Bitcoins. So Wall St. is now pushing this thing and they were saying silicon city is getting in on the act? They were connecting it to the two guys who were in the fight for ownership/creator rights of Facebook. Seems they have put up a bunch of money in it. Sorry, names escape me and I wanted to give you guys something to do anyway, surely you are bored by ProSun and BB by now. For verification, I suppose you could check out Bloomberg online for info.

I find this whole thing very exciting, two months ago Ribshaw had never even heard of Bitcoin. My only investing experience is in collector plates !3d2.jpg

This has a bit of everything, no pun intended. Ponzi, market manipulation, DDos Attacks, or Not, Government Conspiracies, Naysayers, Pimps, what's not to like.

The Winklevoss twins (two major characters Facebook creation story) are back in the news, this time making headlines with their $11 million purchase of one percent of all bitcoins, the virtual currency. As of Thursday morning, Tyler and Cameron Winklevoss own approximately 108,000 bitcoins. With simple math they are in at a price of $101.85 against a closing price of $75.81.

Re: The control of Bitcoin can't come soon enough

Originally Posted by NikSam

Another interesting article on Ars technica how hedge funds are jumping on Bitcoins

I want to see how this shakes out, but I am betting not very well. If you have two entities trading Bitcoin back and forth instantly that is one thing. But what happens when another transaction enters in to the mix. For instance I heard about people mortgaging their house to buy Bitcoin. Hypothetically speaking, if someone sold their house for 1000 BC this week or $250,000, they now have $75000 worth of BC. In a true organized exchange they would be bound to that transaction, but in a completely anonymous exchange what happens? My guess is they walk away from the transaction and if this happens more than once the currency will very likely collapse.

Re: The control of Bitcoin can't come soon enough

Why bother using Bitcoins when you can simply use your own currency? These Bitcoins have no real value. It's like a joke (like multi-level marketing.)

And what's to prevent other people from starting their own crypto-currencies? We could have hundreds of different crypto-currencies floating around, with people encouraging their friends and family to buy some before the price goes up.

Having too many currencies is just not a good thing. (At one point, the United States had thousands of different currencies. We all know that didn't turn out too well.)

_____________________________________________

"By 1860, an estimated 8,000 different state banks were circulating worthless currency called "wildcat" or "broken" bank notes, so called because many of these banks were located in remote regions and frequently failed or "went broke." The era ended in 1863 with the passage of the National Bank Act."

Re: The control of Bitcoin can't come soon enough

I find this whole thing very exciting, two months ago Ribshaw had never even heard of Bitcoin. My only investing experience is in collector plates !3d2.jpg

This has a bit of everything, no pun intended. Ponzi, market manipulation, DDos Attacks, or Not, Government Conspiracies, Naysayers, Pimps, what's not to like.

The Winklevoss twins (two major characters Facebook creation story) are back in the news, this time making headlines with their $11 million purchase of one percent of all bitcoins, the virtual currency. As of Thursday morning, Tyler and Cameron Winklevoss own approximately 108,000 bitcoins. With simple math they are in at a price of $101.85 against a closing price of $75.81.

We are glad to see you excited about being in RS and thank you for looking up that info that I only hinted about because of limited time. Yes, it was the Winklevoss twins I was trying to remember and it was an extensive article on Bloomberg. The more I watch that channel, the more it does look like all the hedgefunds, big money players, etc. are battling money games. I never knew how Bill Gates came along and 'stole' the browser idea from owner and creator of Netscape. I am sure through a search engine anyone can read this story and maybe most of you already have.

Last edited by scratchycat; 04-13-2013 at 04:28 PM.
Reason: could not post message this am

Re: The control of Bitcoin can't come soon enough

IT'S a promising form of electronic cash free from central bankers and beloved by hackers. It - Bitcoin - may also be in trouble, registering catastrophic losses that have sent speculators scrambling.

Although the cybercurrency has existed for years as a kind of Internet oddity, a perfect storm of developments have brought it to the cusp of mainstream use.

As currency crises in Europe piqued investors' interest, a growing number of businesses announced they were accepting bitcoins for an ever-wider range of goods and services. The value of a single bitcoin began racing upward amid growing media attention, smashing past the $US100 ($94.9) mark last week before more than doubling again in just a few days.

Then came the crash.

The price of Bitcoin has imploded, falling from around $US266 on Wednesday (US time) to just above $US40 on Thursday, according to bitcoincharts.com, which tracks trades across the Internet. The best-known exchange, Tokyo-based Mt. Gox, has suspended trading for what it described as a 12-hour "market cooldown." By late Thursday, the currency was back up to just more than $US100.

“An array of speculators have now bid up the price of the Bitcoin to the point where the outstanding supply of the digital money was worth $US1.3 billion at last count. The Winklevii — as they are popularly known — say they own nearly 1 per cent of that, or some $US11 million.”

Nicholas Colas, chief market strategist for the ConvergEx Group, said it was a "great question" whether the currency could survive the wrenching ups and downs.

"At this point I would say yes, since it has before," Colas wrote in an email. But he noted that, unlike previous oscillations, Thursday's collapse was taking place in the full glare of international media attention.

"A lot more people know about Bitcoin than during the prior problems," he said.

Bitcoins are created, distributed, and authenticated independently of any bank or government. The currency's cryptographic features make it virtually immune from counterfeiting, and its relative anonymity holds out the promise of being able to spend money across the Internet without fear of censors, regulators or nosey officials.

The linchpin of the system is a network of "miners" - high-end computer users who supply the Bitcoin network with the processing power needed to maintain a transparent, running tally of all transactions. The tally is one of the most important ways in which the system prevents fraud, and the miners are rewarded for supporting the system with an occasional helping of brand-new bitcoins.

Cryptographers argue over whether bitcoin is well-designed, but the true test of any currency is whether it can be used to buy anything.

Increasingly, Bitcoin is passing the test. From hard drugs to hard currency, songs to survival gear, cars to consumer goods, many retailers have welcomed the money, whose unofficial symbol is a dollar-like, double-barred B.

Atlanta-based BitPay handles Bitcoin transactions for more than 4,500 companies, taking payments in bitcoins and forwarding the cash equivalent to the vendor involved, which means that its clients are insulated from the cybercurrency's volatility.

BitPay Chief Executive Anthony Gallippi said many of the businesses he served were e-commerce websites, but he said an increasing number of traditional retailers were looking to get into the game as well.

"We just had an auto dealership in Kansas City apply," he said.

Artists are into bitcoins too. Tehran-based music producer Mohammad Rafigh said the currency allows him to sell his albums "all over the world and not only in Iran."

There's long been a black market use for bitcoins as well.

Argentine software developer Patricio Fink described how he recently swapped bitcoins for a wad of American currency with a couple of Australian tourists at a Starbucks in Buenos Aires. The visitors wanted spending money at black market rates without the risk of getting roughed up in one of the Argentine capital's black market exchanges. Fink wanted more bitcoins to insulate his savings from Argentina's high inflation.

"It's something that is new," said Fink, 24, who described the deal to The Associated Press over Skype. "And it's working."

One of the most prominent destinations for bitcoins remains Silk Road, a black market website where drug dealers advertise their wares in a consumer-friendly atmosphere redolent of Amazon or eBay - complete with a shopping cart icon, a five-point rating system and voluminous user reviews. The site uses Tor, an online anonymity network, to mask the location of its servers, while bitcoin payments ensure there's no paper trail.

One British user told AP he first got interested in Silk Road while he was working in China, where he used the site to order banned books. After moving to Japan, he turned to the site for an occasional high.

Drug dealers aren't the only ones cashing in on Bitcoin. The hackers behind Lulz Security, whose campaign of online havoc drew worldwide attention back in 2011, received thousands of dollars' worth of bitcoins after promising followers that the money would go toward launching attacks against the FBI.

A report apparently drawn up by the bureau and leaked to the Internet last year said that "since Bitcoin does not have a centralized authority, detecting suspicious activity, identifying users and obtaining transaction records is problematic for law enforcement."

It went on to warn that bitcoins might become "an increasingly useful tool for various illegal activities beyond the cyber realm"- including child pornography, trafficking and terrorism.

That is, if the currency survives.

Bitcoin's dramatic collapse - from peak to trough, the currency shed more than 80 percent of its value - has left many enthusiasts anxious and many skeptics saying "I told you so."

"Trading tulips in real time," is how longtime UBS stockbroker Art Cashin described Bitcoin's vertiginous rise, comparing it to the now-unfathomable craze that saw 17th-century Dutch speculators trade spectacular sums of money for a single flower bulb.
"It is rare that we get to see a bubble-like phenomenon trade tick for tick in real time," he said in a recent note to clients.

One Bitcoin supporter with a unique perspective on the boom-turned-to-bust might be Mike Caldwell, a 35-year-old software engineer based in suburban Utah. Caldwell mints physical versions of bitcoins at his residence, cranking out thousands of homemade tokens with codes protected by tamper-proof holographic seals - a retro-futuristic kind of prepaid cash.

His coins are stamped with the words "Vires in Numeris" - Latin for "Strength in Numbers."

Some may wonder whether Caldwell's coins will one day be among the few physical reminders of an expensive fad that evaporated into the ether.

When asked, Caldwell acknowledged that bitcoin might be in for a bumpy ride.
"The way I look at it is that there will be bugs and there will be minor issues from time to time," he said. But barring a complete unraveling of the currency's electronic architecture, he predicted that it would continue to grow.

"Bitcoins will either be worth nothing or worth a whole lot more than its current value," he said.

For Colas, the market strategist, the most important thing to keep in mind was that bitcoins suffer from the same weakness as any other form of money. If people increasingly believe they're not worth anything, then they're not worth anything - no matter how clever the currency's design.
"The future of bitcoin is, like all currencies, going to come down to trust," he said.

Re: The control of Bitcoin can't come soon enough

I keep coming back to the trust issue with such a volatile currency. To be a legimate marketplace for goods and services people will need to know their transactions will be carried out. For instance someone can with reasonable certainty buy a car from Ebay and know it will be delivered. Craigslist, er not so much and CL is a lot Bitcoin. This pops up for CL in 10 tips to avoid being scammed. 4. NEVER USE ONLINE ESCROW. If someone insists on using an escrow website, cancel the transaction immediately. Online escrow sites are normally run by scammers.10 Tips to Avoid Being Scammed On Craigslist

There then becomes the problem of staying anonymous and dealing with a central clearing house at the same time. I am sure Drug Lords and Gun Smugglers have ways of dealing with payment disputes. But for the rest of the world that is relegated to 1 Star and a bunch of frowny faces next to a sellers name this dog doesn't hunt.

Re: The control of Bitcoin can't come soon enough

It seems that once things like this hit the press the bubble is about to pop. Consider the introduction of the shows Bull, Black Gold, Property Ladder, and Gold Rush. Wait for Honey Boo Boo buys BitCoin and the bottom will fall out.