Thursday, October 4, 2012

San Luis Obispo – The California Department of Corrections and
Rehabilitation’s Board of Parole Hearings (BPH) issued a grant of parole
today for convicted killer and former Charles Manson associate Bruce
Davis, 69, during a parole consideration hearing at California Men’s
Colony. Today’s decision was the result of Davis' 27th parole
suitability hearing.

The BPH issued a grant of parole to Davis in
January 2010 because of his positive adjustment, record of no recent
disciplinary problems, and for successfully completing academic and
vocational education and self-help programs. However, the parole grant
was reversed by former Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger in June 2010, who
concluded Davis was still dangerous because of an evaluator’s diagnosis
of a personality disorder, Davis’ conformist tendencies, and his
sporadic participation in substance-abuse programs over the years.

Davis
challenged Governor Schwarzenegger’s reversal of his parole grant in
Los Angeles County Superior Court, which ruled against Schwarzenegger
and vacated his decision. In 2012, California’s Second District Court
of Appeal upheld the Governor’s reversal of the January 28, 2010, grant,
ruling that the Governor’s concerns were justified and supporting his
conclusion that Davis was still dangerous.

Davis appeared before
the panel today. The suitability finding is subject to a 120-day
decision review period. If the grant is finalized at the conclusion of
decision review, the Governor may conduct an independent review of the
decision. Under California law, the Governor may reverse, modify, affirm
or decline to review the Board’s decision.

Davis was sent to
state prison on April 21, 1972, with a life sentence from Los Angeles
County for two counts of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit
murder and robbery. He was convicted for the July 25, 1969, murder of
Gary Hinman and the murder of Donald “Shorty” Shea sometime in August
1969.

The BPH hearing transcript will serve as the official record and is expected to be transcribed in approximately 30 days.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Barbara Hoyt, left, a former member of the Manson Family, and Debra
Tate, sister of Manson Family murder victim Sharon Tate, pose for photos
moments before the start of Bruce Davis’ parole hearing at the
California Mens Colony Thursday, Oct. 4, 2012 in San Luis Obispo, California.
Davis, imprisoned for 40 years in a double murder engineered by Charles
Manson, won a recommendation of parole Thursday in his 27th appearance
before a parole board panel.

I know Carol. I was afraid this was going to happen since it happened last time.

Tom, we'll see if the Governor agrees. I wonder what he'll do if he is released. Bruce has the same advantage that Clem had. Most people aren't familiar with those 2 being associated with Manson killings.

I think Davis has a good chance of being approved by the governor this time.

I'm not saying "approval" is what I want personally... but, that's my prediciton.

Dilligaf... quick question:

Can the governor continue to veto the board's recommendation, without a substantial reason in writing... or, is the decision pretty much at the governor's whim?OK... "whim" is a bit of a stretch... but, you know what I mean.What exactly does the governor's review process entail?

Carole, you must be speaking from the standpoint that you believe he should serve life, as in his entire life, because after twenty some parole hearings, just for Davis alone...and between all of them, there must be close to eighty or more failed parole hearings through the years...i would think it would be hard not to realize that life without the possibility of parole sentences didn't exist at the time these murderers were sentenced.

And like clockwork, every time LVH comes up, her supporters constantly remind people opposed to parole for her that the parole board is committing her to a sentence she wasn't given...life without parole, by not finding her eligible. They conveniently fail to mention that after the benefit of three trials, she was convicted of multiple first degree brutally violent murders...committed with 'callous disregard' for life.

Seemed likely to me that this would happen, considering it did in 2010, when Arnold squashed it.

Be interesting to see what Gov Brown has to say...whatever, Bruce, and maybe LVH one day might get out, but they'll still be murderers.

This nonsense with these people coming up for parole constantly... 27 times in his case, I believe, or whatever it is, is because of the inadequacy of the sentences they were given.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned, or maybe it has been mentioned, i've missed some posts, that the California death penalty debate is currently on topic again in California, and on the ballot in November...

I agree with you and Carol. Unfortunately, the law is the law. These people were condemned to death, but when the DP was overturned, they magically got entitled to the possibility of parole. It should have been worded that any death penalty convicts were converted to life in prison WITHOUT parole. I'm not sure who was in charge then, but that was just inconceivable.

It's a shame because these family members of any victims have to attend these nasty hearings, and it's a burden on them.

I would imagine LVH may find a flicker of hope in this...doubtful Krenwinkel does though. Unless she has dementia, she has to know she won't see freedom til the day her remains are carried out of the prison. Same for Tex.

I think for a long time, Leslie Van Houten had convinced herself that she wasn't guilty of first degree murder..i think for years she believed she should have been found guilty of a lesser charge, not realizing she convicted herself of first degree murder in her final trial when she admitted that she thought ahead of time about whether or not she could kill and decided that she could.

And after several years, she went through the stage of okay, i'll admit it, whatever you want to hear...and now, she's back to i only stabbed a dead lady, along with...'i don't want to talk about it, i don't have to talk about it, and i'm not going to talk about it...' feeling, evidently, that she's a completely rehabilitated woman, isn't required by law to speak of her crimes, and should be released...

Yeah, you would remember the night you killed somebody....But still, the foggy recollections of drug abusers, the self-preservation instincts of defendents on trial, that weird dynamic of youth, peer loyalty, cult belief...

Add that to decades of incarceration. Reflection. Maturity. Coming of age. Religious awakenings and so forth.

My question would be, how reliable would any of their recollections be now?

But if I had a chance to talk to any of these folk, I wouldn't exactly turn it down.

Thanks, Marliese and Dilligaf, for explaining California's life sentence laws to me. I'm glad CA now has life without parole for first-degree murderers. Katie, I agree with you that people who originally got the DP should have gotten life without parole when the DP was overturned, but what can you do? Tom, I have no desire to speak to these people. I wouldn't ever want to meet them.

Once the full Panel reviews, if it upholds the decision, it will go to the Governor to say Yes or No. If he says No, he will have to state his reason, though it may be vague, and in general. The more detail the better, as, like last time, you can bet Davis will sue, and it will go through an Appeals court.

How Brown will rule is the big question. While he is very pro-inmate, he is also pragmatic. He knows that he has Prop. 30 that he wants passed, there is Prop. 36 which would revise the Three Strikes law, and Prop. 34 to eliminate the DP. Releasing Davis could bring out the conservative vote more than anticipated, most certainly defeating 34 & 36. These increased conservative votes would certainly then vote against 30, which is the huge multi-Billion Dollar tax increase Brown is promoting.

California definantly needs a death penalty because of all the serial murderers who seem to live there. I can't understand why every female in that state doesnt have a revolver under her pillow and in her pocketbook.

Remember how John Phillips greeted the creepy crawling Mansons in his garagw with a shotgun. They didn't come back.

i wouldn't be surprised if he was released this time. but remember he has additional time to serve for a federal gun charge. if they let davis out, i think it will be highly likely van houten will be released before her 70th birthday.

"His release was opposed by a Los Angeles prosecutor and by a former Manson family member, Barbara Hoyt, as well as Sharon Tate's sister, Debra Tate, who attended the hearing.

The recommendation is not the last hurdle in Davis' quest for freedom. The parole grant is subject to a 120-day review period by the entire parole board. If it is upheld, Gov. Jerry Brown then has 30 days to review the decision.

Los Angeles County district attorney's spokeswoman Sandi Gibbons said: "We certainly disagree with the board's decision. We will evaluate how we plan to proceed as the matter goes to Gov. Brown."

As Dill pointed out, the pressure on Gov. Brown might be enough that he would veto Bruce's release. He's still got a long way to go before he gets his $25 and clean pressed suit. LOL.

I was thinking that if he did get out, would it be for him like it was for Morgan Freeman in Shawshank Redemption? After spending so much time in prison, you just can't function on the outside? Or would he jump right back into a cult situation and try to be 2nd in charge?

the Shashank Redemption is a great film and the one thing that struck me was the reality for these prisoners getting out after 3 decades is how fast society moves. things will seem 'the same' yet 'different' in so many ways. for any prisoner, making the transition is tough.

PS: you know, Sponge Bob's Mr Crabs is voiced by the actor in the film that played that badass Prison Guard who holds Tim Robbins over the edge of the building. If you listen to the movie you can sometimes here the Mr Crabs voice...LMAO

Johnny, Shawshank was a very good movie. I loved it at the end when that bible thumping warden got his. LOL.

It would be VERY tough to adjust being in society again after all those years. If he does get out, he'll have to find a job. On every application, it asks "Have you ever been convicted of a felony, and if so, what was it"? That's gonna be a real stumper. LOL.

I wonder if Bruce would change his name like Grogan did and try to hide his past.

Well, he is close to 70 so on the job front, he'll no doubt already have something -not manual labor- lined up prior to getting out. i am guessing it will be a church related one from a supporter.same with a place to live.

Given his age, he would qualify for Social Security and Medicare.

Grogan was a much younger man when he got out and started over. I will hand it to him for being able to reinvent himself and apparently able to stay out of trouble. To be a successful musician under any circumstances is tough, to do so with the self inflicted handicap he started out with as an ex-con is doubly impressive. Although I thought he shouldn't have been released in the first place I have to recognize that he has apparently been able to do well and stay out of trouble.

In regards to Davis, I don't think he'll bother changing his name. He'll likely be paraded about on the Church Circuit as a 'bad man who was saved by Christ' so his name will be a plus.

Johnny you bring up some very good points. Although in order to collect Social Security income, you have to have paid into to it during the years before your retirement. Davis did have a few random jobs in the 60's but I doubt he paid enough into it to matter.

But like you said, he could probably get on with some church, or maybe even have a traveling tent revival, preaching against sin and stuff. LOL.

And I agree, I don't think Grogan should have gotten out, but at least he's been keeping a low profile and a "clean nose".

Maybe Charlie was really diligent about withholdings for SSI...I can see it now, Charlie late at night working the ten key as he prepares W-2's for the folks at Spahn Ranch. I am no SSI expert but as a US Citizen who did pay in (I am assuming he had at least some jobs early in life that took out SS taxes) he'll probably get the minimum.

But I really think he'll be taken in by a Church and used to bring folks to Christ, etc. In return, they'll probably provide a make do job and place to stay.

All in all, a good deal for Bruce.

But you never know, he may have some money left to him from his parents or other family members that have passed away. A close family member may have put it in trust for him. And if it was placed in a decent mutual fund it may be a decent amount of money at this point.

I wonder if Bruce will be taking any 'collect calls' from Frontera Prison. He'd probably crap his pants...

I didn't realize, that Davis has the right to sue, in regards to a veto by the governor... or, that Davis had already done so (last time).I just assumed it was tough cookies for Davis if he was denied by the governor... and that, was that.

Wow...Exactly how many rights (and appeals) do these murderers have anyway? LOL

Reality is that Charlie didn't do anything at Spahn's Ranch but squat on, mooch off, steal from, and trash property that didn't belong to him.

Those pictures of the raid...doesn't he look like the filthiest thing there? Like a dirty rotten vd infested child molesting little creep to me. The stench practically seeps off any paper the photo's on...

>>>Marliese said: Those pictures of the raid...doesn't he look like the filthiest thing there? Like a dirty rotten vd infested child molesting little creep to me. The stench practically seeps off any paper the photo's on...>>>

Isn't that the truth!!! He was revolting in all of the photos I've seen of him. I can't even fathom any girl wanting to be with him. Yuck!

Marliese said:"Reality is that Charlie didn't do anything at Spahn's Ranch but squat on, mooch off, steal from, and trash property that didn't belong to him.

Those pictures of the raid...doesn't he look like the filthiest thing there? Like a dirty rotten vd infested child molesting little creep to me. The stench practically seeps off any paper the photo's on..."

The only thing funnier, was the time I did the skit about Tex's ex-wife.She's out on a date with a "suitor"... explaining over wine (to her date), that she has several of Tex Watson's children at home. Talk about dating "deal-breakers" and "baggage". LOL!

I'll have to think about an opening line, Leary. But for sure something about the deaths of Zero, Doreen Gaul, James Sharp, what took him so long to admit his involvement in Gary's murder, the real facts of Shorty's murder, did he go up to Cielo after the slaughter, Nancy Pittman....etc etc etc

I agree with you, Reese's. Honestly, i don't know if Brown will let the parole stand, but if he does, then I think it'll help Leslie Van Houten. Though I think she'll probably get out on her own, one way or another anyway. Eventually. If that makes sense. :)

I know the feeling. I've thought that too, body bag, but it sort of seems like times are changing, i don't know.

Have always had this vision, dead Rosemary oozing on the floor and Van Houten standing in front of Rosemary's closet, moving through the hangers, looking at stuff...with the filthy hands that had just tied a pillowcase and lamp cord over Rosemary's head, pushed her around, stabbed her beautiful skin...

Lynyrd said >>>>>>Damn...Debra Tate has some huge breasts in that photo.Freakin' watermelons... LOL!<<<<<<

It's FAT. She is obese. Fat.

And i just thought how good she looked in a brief television interview this morning...probably taken from yesterday. Her skin was clear and pretty, she was wearing less make up than usual...in more natural colors. Maybe she had a facial for the cameras. :)

ReesesPeace said:"There's a whole lot of shady when it comes to Bruce, and what he was involved in".

I agree.I've always believed, that Bruce's crimes are steeped in the most mystery.Bruce is like the grim reaper.Whenever he's around... folks mysteriously die.

Bruce was on-hand when Zero died "playing russian roulette".Bruce was also suspected of being in Europe, when Joel Pugh committed suicide, as well.(It's never been proven, but suspected)And of course, there's Davis' "special versions" of the Hinman and Shea events... in which, Davis always minimizes his participation.

"Shady" for sure.

I don't believe Bruce was the zodiac... but, I do believe he was likely involved in more murders (and crimes), than he was actually convicted of...

The guy's creepy.That's all there is to it.

I agree with Steven Kay in this video.I think Bruce was actually closer to Charlie, than Tex ever was.I don't know if I'd use the term "right hand man" (as Kay does), 'cuz that's just kinda queer (LOL)... but, Bruce was definitely higher-up (than Tex) in the pecking order, in my humble estimation.

Good Gahd, I just got a good look at the pic of Debra and Barbara! WTF is up with Debra's evil prison matron look?! Right out of Central Casting!!

Anyhoo, is anyone willing to share why there seems to be a hate-on for Barbara? I have empathy for her; she was just a kid when all this crap went down and that had to mess her up. She's hanging and getting high, getting laid and bam! They're murderers! I can't imagine what that would do to me...just musing here and curious as to why the scorn for her. My feeling is she feels guilt for associating with these tricks back in the day and I say good for her if she continues to speak out against these killers. My opinion, don't slam me too hard. lol

Hi Cease!!! I had the same thought. Babs only has a few months to go underground. Shudder.....

Reeses, I'm with you. I personally admire Babs & Debra for attending these ghastly hearings. It's gotta be more fun to have a root canal. But they are faithful to attend these hearings to keep these monsters locked up. I say cudos to them!

Has anyone else noticed, that EVERY talent competition on tv now... whether it be dancing, singing... or anything else for that matter... has to have, at least one British judge with a thick English accent?What's up with that?

Yeah wait'll good ole Bruce gets out and sees how expensive it is to live now compared to 1972. And he'll have to pay for his medical and dental treatment instead of it being free. He'll have to buy gas for his car, groceries, car insurance, car inspection, pay utilities, and most of all...he'll have to pay INCOME TAXES.

Her name is Beth, Katie. I don't know, but i'd guess she probably toughed it out as long as she could...and i'd guess the thought that he was likely never going to get out probably had more to do with it than losing conjugal visits 16 years ago...but i don't know.

Katie, he'd proabably qualify for some sort of assistance, wouldn't he? i know that is gonna set it off, but the dude is 70, right? What kind of job is he gonna get? Greeter at MallWart? How old are the kids he had with the ex? Will/are they gonna help Pops? Lots of questions and I'm sure..hopeful!...that the parole board has these questions and so much more.

In the past, an inmate accepted their fate, but recent court rulings in the past 10 years have allowed such cases to proceed.

Katie,

Only inmates which face the DP are provided counsel at no cost. For everyone else, you either pay for your own or find someone who typically wants/needs publicity so they accept the case pro bono. However, occassionally you will find a firm which relies partially from money contributed by thughuggers who believe that everyone in prison is innocent, and that The Man is just keeping them down...

Lynyrd, I am only a "breast man" at KFC.With women, if they have stories, I'm in. At my age all the other stuff is window dressing.But you know what is weird, just the other day I was saying to a female friend that the one thing that causes me to look twice at a woman is good posture. How square is that?

As far as medical care in California or LA County, Brucie would qualify for General Relief, or GR as we call it which also pays them a very small pitence but they have to do some type of Community Service unless they are disabled, in which case they would qualify for SSI and they don't have to have their 40 quarters in...

As far as medical care in California or LA County, Brucie would qualify for General Relief, or GR as we call it which also pays them a very small pitence but they have to do some type of Community Service unless they are disabled, in which case they would qualify for SSI and they don't have to have their 40 quarters in...

>>>Only inmates which face the DP are provided counsel at no cost. For everyone else, you either pay for your own or find someone who typically wants/needs publicity so they accept the case pro bono.>>>

So I'm wondering where Bruce's attorney fits into all this. Do you think he did it pro bono because of the notoriety?

I wonder the same thing about Tex, Leslie, Pat, Bobby or Charlie's attorneys. They aren't facing the DP, just trying to get out.

I read that Tex wrote that book years ago to help pay legal fees because the burden was on his parents. I guess the parents of these losers used to pay legal fees. Although I doubt if Charlie's mother shelled out a dime for any defense.

Carol MR asked about court appointed lawyers. It's been my experience with "public defenders" that they are basically worthless. These "court appointed" lawyers have MANY cases assigned to them, they do very little work on each one, and they almost never help their defendant. A "pay" lawyer can be very expensive, $6,000 or more, but it makes a BIG difference, I know from experience.

Also, MichaelsBackPorch has a bit more recent vid of the Davis parole hearing posted. Davis is visible speaking, Tate/Hoyt are not. It can seen HERE.

Under Miranda, you may have an attorney provided based uupon you financial position, however, that is only for the initial trial. Post-conviction, any attorney utilized is not provided for free.

Some Publid Defenders are new and inexperienced, some have too many dcases, and some are actually pretty damn good. Many jurisdictions, in order to provide a sufficient number of attornies will contract with local defense attornies. Like anything else, you can get good or bad. The constitutuion does not say you have to receive the best attorney possible, just an attorney. That being said, it does not help any prosecutor much if defense counsel is completely inadequate, as it can lay the foundation for an appeal for the defendant.

To end my day I would like to ask any of the bloggers or visitors to this site, if I can call you friends, if you are prayerful people, could you please say a prayer tonight for Anita Mann, who is housed in the Jean Conservation Camp in Nevada.

Kids can get themselves in more Goddamned trouble....I don't even know how to end this fucking sentence.

I was wondering if, in light of Bruce's new admissions of participation in murder, if a civil suit could be brought against him by the families of Hinman and Shea. I know there's probably a statute of limitations in civil suits, but with this new evidence, could there be a chance of new civil suits against him, perchance he gets out??

Yeah Tom...I wonder what's the average life expectancy for a lifetime inmate, and how those figures stack-up against the average life expectancy for someone out in society.I'd like to know the stats on that myself.Do people actually live longer in prison?

As for current comedies... I like "King of Queens" the best."Arthur", "Deacon", "Spence, "Carrie", "Danny" and of course "Doug" are all hilarious.Lou Ferrigno has even been featured on the show a few times, as himself. LOL!Jerry Stiller is crazy! LOLAt it's core... it's basically just a remake of "The Honeymooners", but I still can't get enough of it.

"The Office" is a very good show.

"Two and a Half Men" was quite entertaining with Sheen (I haven't watched it with Ashton).

Most recently, I've really been getting into "The Big Bang Theory". LOLAt first glance, "Big Bang" is just cheesy and ridiculous... but under the surface, it's actually a complex show... and a complete scream.In short... "Big Bang" is one of those shows, that you really have to watch for a while to reap the humor.The characters are majorly developed... and 90% of the humor, is knowing their indidividual personalities, and predicting how they're going to react to situations.Until you learn the characters, the show doesn't make a whole lot of sense... but, it's worth the investment.All the characters are complete freaks in their own right, and their interplay is the cruxt of the humor.And of course, "Penny" is smokin' hot.

Since you asked Katie, I'll tell you what I know about prison. First, let me say I have no idea what it would be like to be sentenced to "life". (or the gas chamber, as several Manson family members were).

My sentence was 3 years, I did it day for day and that was about 15 years ago. I was in minimum, medium, (visited the dentist in maximum) and super max. There was no parole for me, in fact I don't think I remember a single inmate ever getting parole, and I loosely knew about 2 or 300 inmates.

A guard told me once he knew guys that had be "jailing" for 15 or 20 years. That's all they did was in and out of prison. Charles Manson is one of them. He doesn't want out of prison, he doesn't even try. I knew several guys like that, as their release date drew near, they would be scared to death.

Bruce Davis is nearly 70 years old, he's been in prison for 40 years. I'm sure he wants out, but it probably scares the hell out of him also. He may move to a halfway house, might get involved in some type of church activity, he may walk on the beach and have a heart attack and die the day he's released.

Marliese I'm so sorry to hear that. I know that young people can make mistakes that can last a lifetime, and can hurt everyone involved. I know that very well. It's something that's going on with one of my kids now.

When I first got my license back in 1969, I thought my shit didn't stink and I was running around town lickety-split. I ran over a dog. I'll never, ever forget that. It wasn't a DUI, but it was a careless moment when I wasn't looking.

If I cost the lives of 2 people even by accident I don't know what I'd do. I'd probably just think I should just stay in jail.

I also agree that Bruce looks like a worn-out old bag. His face looks like it was zapped with a laser beam. From his nose down to his chin is red, probably from aging. He doesn't have lips, but he never did. Plus he has "old man ears".

>>>Can you imagine what Van Houten must look like now? She won't face the camera, and she was looking pretty beat up from the sun and no skin care several years ago.>>>

She looks hideous too. Gone are the days when she was in a "beauty contest" in high school. Now she's just a hag.

She is only 3 years older than I am, but she looks 25 years older.

Her hair is solid gray, her skin is parched and stretched and her teeth are sticking out like she's eating corn thru a picket fence.

Leslie is younger than Bruce but she looks like his great, great grandma.

And I'll reiterate (which means repeat for those who are slow), that people who don't pay into the Social Security system will NOT receive benefits from the system when they retire.

It's always been thus. Nothing has changed. It doesn't matter what state you live in.

If you don't work your whole fucking worthless life, you can't retire on Social Security.

I don't know how to explain it more simply than that!

Should I make it more clear????

Social Security retirement is NOT the same as SSI. SSI is for disabled individuals and it has nothing to do with age. It's NOT a retirement check. It's a check you get each month BECAUSE YOU'RE DISABLED. You have to prove it. You can be 2 to ? years old.

I must appologize that I am unaware of Davis recently admitting involvement in a homicide, so it is a little hard for me to comment. However, a suit can be filed for almost anything, it is whether it has merit that makes the difference. If this were a recently discovered homicide, even if it were old, but had been concealed until now, an argument could be made that any potential statute of limitations had not run out, as the act of keeping the act concealed was part of an ongoing act. As such, one could argue merit. However, if this were an old homicide, with facts known, it would be more difficult to argue. I am assuming that you are looking at it from a wrongful death perspective? If so, a case would have a better, though not necessarily a good chance, of having merit if a conviction were obtained first.

the reason davis looks so young in that clip is because it's from the late 90's. i know this because i have a copy of the parole hearing.someone asked if grogan had ever been back to spahn ranch: i know when he was released he was paroled to his parent's home in topanga canyon. he may not have walked the land again, but sure he drove by it quite a bit. i believe his parents lived less then a few miles from spahn, remember he was a ranch hand before manson and the family showed up.

also on the creepy aspect of davis, during his days in southern california there was a series of 'highway disappearances.' these typically involved a young broke down alone on the freeway late at night. it was reported by witnesses that a man in a sports car(usually a corvette) was seen helping these women. of course though the women were never seen again. there are still parents and siblings looking for them today. very sad, cat's has some info on her forum about them. i would not be surprised if davis was involved in some (or all of these).

Lurch, I was wondering about the civil suit against Davis because if he is released then he could, at some point, write a tell all book about the 2 murders he was charged with and possibly make a lot of money.

If a civil suit was made against him and won, they could have a lien against any future money he might get.

I'm not saying he would write a book, but he could.

That's the whole point about these civil suits against Casey Anthony. She has the potential to make a lot of money if she waits long enough. But if there are judgements made against her, she's gonna have to pay them off if she ever makes any money.

Katie, i think the only money oj has left is his football pension, and i don't think pensions can be taken...

Like you said, he probably put everything...real estate, if there was any value left...in his daughter's name.

And too...i think OJ's income probably, though i don't know for sure, depended on him being a viable commodity...you know, a face before the camera, can't do that in prison. Advertising for GAP clothes and Dockers and Hertz etc etc. And when he stopped working in tv and stupid movies, the money stopped coming...

And Johnny Cochran et al took a lot, and he probably liquidated a lot of what was left...and he wasn't exactly Paul McCartney as far as having billions in the first place.

beauders, i know the photo you're talking about, i saw it from a link posted here too, but there is a photo, googled it, from the recent parole hearing, and he looks ghastly...with a vague look...like there's nothing there. prison, even the mens colony, has taken a toll. elderly prisoners are pathetic.

which reminds me...i think anyone that thinks he was zodiac doesn't know much about the zodiac.

Thanks Marliese. From what I've read, OJ had plenty of money before the murders. He owned a house in Brentwood, which is an exclusive area of LA. You would know more about that than I do since you live there. I think he also owned the condo where his ex-wife lived.

But he probably did spend a lot of it on his defense, and after the trial he was tainted and nobody wanted to work with him, so I agree, with no money coming in, there might not have been much left.

I do think he killed his ex-wife and her friend. Just my opinion.

I'm not sure what picture of Bruce everyone is referring to, but to me, he looks old in every picture. Maybe I'm not seeing what everyone is seeing. :)

Rockingham...i admit to dragging my husband to Rockingham in the 90's. LOL. Rumor has it Tony Orlando lived there in the 70's...did drugs with Freddie Prinze in the master bedroom closet. The same master bedroom where Ron Goldman's blood was found on a sock of OJ's...wasn't that how it went, been so long. And Ron's blood in the Bronco. Stupid, stupid jury.

I don't think releasing Davis at this point would cause much stir anywhere except maybe in California. The average Joe doesn't even know who Bruce Davis is.

The only problem would be what Dill mentioned. Some proposition that the Gov. wants passed might not pass if he releases Davis.

I was watching CBS This Morning on Friday, and they briefly mentioned Davis getting granted parole and the main news media is so far away from this case they screwed it all up. They said that Davis was convicted of killing 2 men on the "ranch" where a bunch of hippies were living. They don't even care enough about this case to fact check.

Hi Carol. I don't think the proceeds would go to the victims' families unless there was some sort of judgement against Davis, as in a lawsuit judgement. But that would be another "Dill" question. LOL.

I don't think Doris would like his being granted parole, only because it might open the door to the killers of Sharon. I don't know if Doris had anything personally against Bruce since he wasn't at Cielo Drive. I feel fairly certain that she didn't care for anyone in the Manson family because of the association.

Ya want to see something freaky- go check out the actress who played the character Candy on two and a half men ( Alan married her briefly) and then put her pic up against a pic of Sharon from Fearless Vampire Killers when she had red hair...

I believe Bruce will walk. Balancing the budget by any and all means is a priority today. And planty of face eating scum are waiting in the wings for available cell space, looking to gobble up some tasty tax dollars.

Bruce can be considered low risk by now. And is small potatoes in the news and public perception re. political fall-out.

I don't know if they can seek to get him halfway housed in his own state, or if it has to be Cali. But I'd imagine that it might be made clear off the record that Bruce would be well advised to get the f*ck out of Dodge ASAP, and stay out of the public eye.

So ironically, this guy could be one of the beneficiaries of the economic downturn.

Saint C! You're here...:) It's not the same when you're not, and...I agree with everything you said. Forgive me, please, for being late, i was all fired up to respond, and within an hour of seeing the posts, it was too late. And I know it's done now, it's over, i won't revisit the hurt, just know those particular posts of yours are why I think of you as the heart...the generous heart, of these blogs...

Brown appointed Rose Bird!Back in the day...and the Rose Bird court abolished the death penalty, until it went to the voters, resulting in these commuted sentences of life with the possibility parole...there was no life without at that time, as there will be if the voters decide against the dp this November...

How ironic. Saved twice by the liberal Jerry Brown? I think the statistics are that he has allowed about three quarters of the parole recommendations, while Arnold's record was about a third or so...

So i'll say yes, Brown will let it stand. It's my understanding it will be six or seven months before it comes to his desk....

Lynyrd, you asked about outcry from Grogan's release. I don't remember any, do you? I'm outraged now, but wasn't then. I remember thinking, okay the kid got out, good for him. i was young and dumb. And didn't have a clue about his history.

And now, i think 15 or 17 years, whatever it was, is way too lenient for his crimes, and i can't understand why revealing where the body was located should have had any impact on parole decisions (if it did). It is said he did that in order to prove he hadn't mutilated Shorty's body or cut him up in nine pieces. Yet the head was found separate from the rest of the skeleton...so how did that happen, did the coyotes rip it off? i thought he was buried? And how about all the years he let him rot, and didn't say where he was buried? Is that all forgotten? The anguish Shorty's mother and family experiened? Stupid assholes like Bruce Davis saying, i don't know, maybe he's still alive, there's no body.

Now that we've all researched and studied the circumstances, i think it's wrong he was released after such a short time.

not a scientific poll by any means, but i had some friends/relatives from Cali who stopped by overnight. i asked them about the bruce davis release. the response was a blank look all around. i then said use to hang around with charlie manson and got some stirring of recollection from the folks over 40. anywhoo, after outlining what bruce did -or what was proven in court- the consensus was given the time he spent in prison to date (40 years) plus the current budget situation in California in general that they pretty much are willing to roll the dice on a 70 year old being released back into society.

sometimes i forget how far under the radar this manson stuff really is at this point.

Johnny, I don't know anyone "in real life" (LOL) that knows anything about the Manson case. I've always been interested in it since it happened, but most people couldn't even tell you the names of the victims OR the family, except for maybe Tex and of course Charles Manson.

yep, which makes me think for Gov Brown it won't be a political issue at all. most folks will say 40 years served and 70 years old...we need the space for more dangerous folks today, not back in the day.

Hi, Katie. I think convicted murderers can't benefit from books or movies about their crimes. It's called the Son of Sam Law. But since Davis' crimes occurred before Son of Sam, maybe this wouldn't apply to him.

You know, when you stop and think about it, Mary Brunner had a lot more involvement in Gary's death than Bruce did. It seems awfully lopsided that he's the one who has been in prison all these years and she hasn't.

If no one cared about Grogan in 1985, why should a governor fear repercussion regarding Davis in 2012?It's just the way my mind was working... so, I figured I'd throw that question/thought on the thread... and see if anyone else was thinking the same thing.

I must say..My own personal experience, parallels what Johnny and Cease2 expressed.

I have no idea, what public opinion is like in California these days, regarding Manson family criminals.I've never lived in California... or, anywhere near there.I can only speak in terms of my area.

In my area... no one even knows who the funk "Bruce Davis" is.I'm not exaggerating.They really don't.

As Johnny said:If you add the preface "Manson associate"... they'll catch-on.But until then... they have no idea.

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If Bruce Davis was released... and I visited my brother with the news... the conversation would go like this:

Me: Knock, knock, knock...

Brother: Hey, what's up?

Me: Did you hear? Bruce Davis was released.

Brother: WHO?

Me: Bruce Davis... one of the Manson Family guys.

Brother: Oh really? Huh? How long's he been in jail? Like 100 years? (and then, he'd chuckle a bit)

Truth be told... most of my family and friends, couldn't name two of the "Manson family" victims.

And... (as Johnny suggested), the folks under 35 years old, have even less of a clue.

I'd be willing to bet, that half the folks under 30 years old in my area, think Manson is already dead! LOL!

Anyway... my point (and yes, I have one. LOL!):

Governor Brown obviously operates in California.So obviously... his concern regarding public opinion is focused in that area.That's his focus area.

Since the murders actually happened in California, amongst Californians... the wound may still be fresh... AND, the media may still be on top of this case.I can only use the experience and contributions of friends in California, to educate myself.I have no idea...

But if my own area is, in any way, reflective of what's happening in Cali... I'd say Brown has zero to worry about, in terms of public outcry.

If Grogan was released in 1985, without anyone's head falling off... I think the same could be expected today.

Having said that...I'm eagerly awaiting the outcome of the governor's decision, out of sheer curiosity.

It seems Davis also earned two master's degrees in prison... (at least according to one source).

I have no idea if Bruce Davis will be paroled.I have no crystal ball.I can only guess, like everyone else.

It kinda makes me laugh, when others speak with absolute certainty regarding such matters.How could anyone possibly know the outcome with absolute certainty?Let's face it:If anyone predicted in 1980, that Grogan would be a free man in 1985... they would have been laughed at.Just a little perspective...

I'll just say this:I think Davis has a pretty good shot... what with, the present economy... his track record... and Brown's reputation.The fact that Davis has been approved (by the board) once already, also has to work in his favor (at least somewhat)... no matter how miniscule, the impact.

Kimchi said:"He was allowed to change his name which tells us he was in some sort of witness protection program..."

Hmm...Interesting stuff Kimchi!!!

So, you believe Grogan was actually in a witness protection program of sorts?I had never heard that expressed before.Heck... it never even crossed my mind.

It's certainly intriguing... and kinda makes sense.I mean... Grogan's release was certainly done discreetly... and, he was given some sort of deal for cooperating.What kind of "deal" would it be, if they threw him to the lions?

Definitely something to think about...

They called cooperation "turning state's evidence" in regards to Kasabian (and her "deal").Any formal legal terminology for Grogan's cooperation Dilligaf?

Parolees are not usually allowed to change their names?That's another thing I wasn't aware of...Dilligaf?Any thoughts?

Are we open on Sunday? Good Morning All.....I live in good ol' sunny California. I do believe that I might remember hearing that when Brown ran for office, a big part of his pitch may or may not have been that he wouldn't be in politics anymore after all of this so he had no personal alterior motives. Now, remember I said that may, might,and nothing concrete, so don't hold me down to these words. :) Hope all is well with all who are well :)

A video of a news story containing some details about Grogan's release from prison can be seen HERE.

At least one of the aliases used by Grogan since his release is pretty common knowledge. I won't post it here as he was probably "outed" by someone, (possibly an internet blog).

Someone sent me a link to a "private" YouTube vid of a person they claim is Grogan performing in a musical group. It may or may not be Grogan, I can't tell, he looks very different from the "Clem" of the Manson family.

A 'parolee' isn't on formal parole, or whatever the correct term is, forever, is he/she? Isn't there a specific term, like a couple years? I don't know, but i'd guess, his performing career came after his parole supervision ended. He's been out for 25 years.

Dilligaf would probably be our best resource for these types of questions.

In my area... I'm pretty sure paroled individuals are under supervison for a prescribed amount of time, as you suggested.I would guess, the length of such supervison, would be dictated by the severity of the original crime.

I've known a couple folks (very loosely) who were on parole for non-violent crimes.Hence, my indirect experience.

However, I've never had any direct (or indirect) contact with a paroled murderer (LOL)... so I'm not sure what the average length of supervison is, for those guys/gals.If Clem is currently visiting (and possibly residing) in the Mediterranean... I'd say it's pretty safe to assume, that he's no longer under supervision.

It seems to me, that the sheer number of paroled individuals floating around in society, would make it financially (and logistically) impossible to track everyone indefinitely/forever.

Having said all that...

I would imagine, that (initially) a parolee who is participating in a witness protection program/agreement... could also be placed under parole supervision, depending on the nature of their crimes.I don't see why those two situations couldn't run concurrently.But again... I'm not a lawyer.Dilligaf?

Lynyrd, it's not difficult to change your name in La County, costs about 500.00 and a court appearance...I know you have to disclose your criminal history but I don't know the legal aspects of that, Maybe Mr. Dill will explain that...

FRIENDS

"Charlie Manson is a five foot seven schizophrenic, who if it weren't for the murder of Sharon Tate, would never be known or discussed. And I'm not saying he isn't funny and entertaining. I'm saying he's a dime a dozen criminal-class punk, who had the good fortune of running into some middle class pseudo-revolutionary white girls." -- Tom G

"The simple and undeniable truth, is that Charlie and the gang were/are the biggest idiots, morons and imbeciles on the planet." -- Leary7

"Them fucking fruitcakes could not pour piss out of a boot, with the bottom written on it."--Harold True