Quick Poll: What sort of dev tracker would you prefer?

We're talking to Vanilla Forums about improving our Dev Tracker. (Hoorray and cross fingers!) There are two ways we can do this, pending their ability to make the changes we request.

Please keep in mind that any changes are still tentative, and that if we are able to effect improvements, it will be a long-range project, not something we'll see in the next few weeks or months. Still, we'd very much like to have a more effective and useful Dev Tracker, so your input would be very welcome.

Comments

Please note that we may vote overwhelmingly for a plan that cannot be implemented. In the end, though, I'd like to tell Vanilla Forums what our members would prefer, with hopes that such a design will be possible.

I think it would be best if the dev tracker focused on just the dev posts, and wasn't influenced by player posts. That way it will act more like the name implies, by tracking dev posts and showing when and where they're posting.

Many forums i use have an entirely different way of doing dev tracking which is just to have a page that showcases only the dev post. Think of it like an ANet RSS feed if you will. It showcases the thread title, and a simple preview of the post (1 sentence). This lets the users see the activity and click the post and jump straight to it.

Many forums i use have an entirely different way of doing dev tracking which is just to have a page that showcases only the dev post. Think of it like an ANet RSS feed if you will. It showcases the thread title, and a simple preview of the post (1 sentence). This lets the users see the activity and click the post and jump straight to it.

That feels as if it might be what we had in the past. I am not sure, and I will check the helpful archive that a member made, but I honestly can't remember whether we listed posts or threads in most-recent-post order.

I'm surprised at so many people (so far) voting for the thread option. The way I see it:

Dev's don't post THAT much. Really, you're lucky to see a couple a day unless something major is going on.

If you go the thread route you still have the problem of trying to find the dev post(s). If it's a busy thread that can be unnecessarily time consuming and often loses the general "chain" of what piece of the thread the dev is trying to reply to.

I'd definitely rather just see all the posts and click into the thread for context if I want to see more. The couple of times a year there's a Q&A thread or a particularly active topic for dev replies I'll click "next page" once or twice if needed, no big deal.

The "carousel" already shows all recent posts, including ones from the same thread. So I'd rather a "devtracker" just show the most recent thread in which a developer has posted.
Ideally, each would have a forward and backward arrow, so we can easily navigate to earlier/later posts.

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If you go the thread route you still have the problem of trying to find the dev post(s). If it's a busy thread that can be unnecessarily time consuming and often loses the general "chain" of what piece of the thread the dev is trying to reply to.

Here's what I think: If we have a thread listing, you'd click the thread and that would take you immediately to the most recent dev post. You wouldn't need to "dig through the weeds." If you wanted to see previous dev posts you would click the little (hopefully it will be larger, soon) arrow to the right of the dev post which would take you to the next dev post. If you're at the last dev post in the thread, you'd move to the first in the thread and, using the arrows, move through each dev post in order posted.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
The "carousel" already shows all recent posts, including ones from the same thread. So I'd rather a "devtracker" just show the most recent thread in which a developer has posted.
Ideally, each would have a forward and backward arrow, so we can easily navigate to earlier/later posts.

That is on my request list. It remains to be seen if it -- well, if any of this -- can happen.

For me it sounds like the second option is the best. But only because there already is "Latest ArenaNet Posts" on the page.
But I would like to see more details about each thread like how many ArenaNet responses are there and make quick links them (like next and prev. as the guy above me suggests).

If you go the thread route you still have the problem of trying to find the dev post(s). If it's a busy thread that can be unnecessarily time consuming and often loses the general "chain" of what piece of the thread the dev is trying to reply to.

Here's what I think: If we have a thread listing, you'd click the thread and that would take you immediately to the most recent dev post. You wouldn't need to "dig through the weeds." If you wanted to see previous dev posts you would click the little (hopefully it will be larger, soon) arrow to the right of the dev post which would take you to the next dev post. If you're at the last dev post in the thread, you'd move to the first in the thread and, using the arrows, move through each dev post in order posted.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
The "carousel" already shows all recent posts, including ones from the same thread. So I'd rather a "devtracker" just show the most recent thread in which a developer has posted.
Ideally, each would have a forward and backward arrow, so we can easily navigate to earlier/later posts.

That is on my request list. It remains to be seen if it -- well, if any of this -- can happen.

That would be awesome. I know the worst part of the current system is looking for the dev post in the thread. Sometimes I'm like "is there really a dev post here or am I being trolled?" cuz I'll be sifting through 30 pages back and forth and still not find the post lol.

The first option seems the easiest and most organic to follow. The second option means havung to search a thread when all i want is a direct link to an exact posting.

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@Kunzaito.8169 said:
I'm surprised at so many people (so far) voting for the thread option. The way I see it:

Dev's don't post THAT much. Really, you're lucky to see a couple a day unless something major is going on.

If you go the thread route you still have the problem of trying to find the dev post(s). If it's a busy thread that can be unnecessarily time consuming and often loses the general "chain" of what piece of the thread the dev is trying to reply to.

I'd definitely rather just see all the posts and click into the thread for context if I want to see more. The couple of times a year there's a Q&A thread or a particularly active topic for dev replies I'll click "next page" once or twice if needed, no big deal.

Regarding 2:
People can already jump directly to the dev's post in the thread by clicking the red "ArenaNet" tag under the thread name in the list of threads. No need to search the thread for their response. You can also jump to the next post by a dev in that thread if there is one to jump to by clicking the ">" (jump to next dev post button) after the dev's name in their comment's header.

On the note of the ">" (which is extremely hard to miss as being there or serving an actual purpose), in my themes I added some text to it and skinned it as an actual button to make it obvious what it is and what it does. All it took was 1 addition to their CSS that they could quickly add, or they could even go in directly and change the ">" to actual words instead of an easily missed/ambiguous character.

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WOW - Done with forums for good now! - Someone creates a thread about Pharus's light on crit effect asking if it is a bug - I get warned for being "off topic" for commenting how to use the search and pointing out threads discussing Pharus and it being an intended effect... Goodbye all. Happy gaming.

I prefer how the dev tracker on the old version work. Just a chronologically ordered list of dev posts. The carousel is terrible for readability and tracking. The current dev tracker is basically useless which is why I haven't used it since the switch to the new forum. I don't want to have to click through to each thread just to check if the post is relevant or not. In the old forum if I see a relevant post I can click into the thread to see the context.

Many forums i use have an entirely different way of doing dev tracking which is just to have a page that showcases only the dev post. Think of it like an ANet RSS feed if you will. It showcases the thread title, and a simple preview of the post (1 sentence). This lets the users see the activity and click the post and jump straight to it.

That feels as if it might be what we had in the past. I am not sure, and I will check the helpful archive that a member made, but I honestly can't remember whether we listed posts or threads in most-recent-post order.

Now i know the forum software usage is different and may be prohibitive of doing it in a similar manner, but i feel this layout is far more user friendly and intuitive than what we currently have (or dont).

Suggestion:
Order topics based on relative activity, recent posts are at the top of the list, with a red icon if a dev has ever been involved.
WITHIN the topic, 'sticky' all dev replies to the top of the page

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I would say keep the dev threads on the top of the forum to keep up with what’s going on. Leave the comments in the actual time.

And if/when a dev posts into a different thread of someone else, it would show as a notification to everyone if they want to see them. However I would add a feature into the setting, if people want to see when the devs make a comment or not.

I would also make a notification if the devs upgraded someones thread for the dev. To know that it is something the devs are commenting in, or paying attention to. But I would also make a feature into setting for people have the choice if they want the notification or not.

Many forums i use have an entirely different way of doing dev tracking which is just to have a page that showcases only the dev post. Think of it like an ANet RSS feed if you will. It showcases the thread title, and a simple preview of the post (1 sentence). This lets the users see the activity and click the post and jump straight to it.

That feels as if it might be what we had in the past. I am not sure, and I will check the helpful archive that a member made, but I honestly can't remember whether we listed posts or threads in most-recent-post order.

Now i know the forum software usage is different and may be prohibitive of doing it in a similar manner, but i feel this layout is far more user friendly and intuitive than what we currently have (or dont).

Those examples you gave are very useful, so thank you for sharing them.

@Zedek.8932 said:
I think it would be nice if you guys could also hide posts from the devtracker.

They could hide all posts from a specific ArenaNet member, but not specific posts, since that'd essentially require posting on a different account. If that's what you want, you can search by author (click the arrow in the search box to see the options).

Thread-based is fine, but you can then try to do something like what League of Legends' old forums had which was that in any thread with multiple dev posts, there was a second set of navigation links (like the previous/next page ones and in the same area) which were exclusively for "Previous/Next Riot (or in this case, ANet) Post."

This way the feed's posts are condensed by topic so all discussion is visible, but also still gives interested players the ability to hunt down individual dev posts in active topics they're interested in discussing without having to look through the whole thread.

I'd go for option #2, but with some improvements in UI/UX:
1. split threads by each forum category as... a separate table/accordion-menu/expand-menu/filters maybe?
2. allow users to show only threads from chosen forum category of their interests - I'd like to see only posts that I might be interested in, currently it seems spammy for me.
3. show each thread with first post summary, just to know the context of the reply.

Many forums i use have an entirely different way of doing dev tracking which is just to have a page that showcases only the dev post. Think of it like an ANet RSS feed if you will. It showcases the thread title, and a simple preview of the post (1 sentence). This lets the users see the activity and click the post and jump straight to it.

That feels as if it might be what we had in the past. I am not sure, and I will check the helpful archive that a member made, but I honestly can't remember whether we listed posts or threads in most-recent-post order.

Now i know the forum software usage is different and may be prohibitive of doing it in a similar manner, but i feel this layout is far more user friendly and intuitive than what we currently have (or dont).

Those examples you gave are very useful, so thank you for sharing them.

I really like that first example; I'd be fine with what we had on the old forums, including not only 'next post', but 'previous post', as well. This Dev Tracker is, frankly, useless. My front page of the Dev Tracker is more than half-filled with Stickies, many closed with 0 replies, so even the 'newest thread' part isn't even working.

The Carousel is great....except when many Dev posts happen in a short period of time and fill up the Carousel and push other recent Dev posts off. Also, it has a time-limit?, where all of a sudden it will eat a bunch of Dev posts, collapse, and leave a couple of new ones, and 1 or 2 old ones, and all the Dev posts between are gone.

The Dev Tracker should be a thread or threads based on game mode, that features only information/updates from Devs. A closed thread with no comments. Players wishing to comment can create one in the appropriate forum thread. The forums get far too cluttered as is and it gets very difficult to find anything from Staff that is important with no sticky system in place

@Randulf.7614 said:
The first option seems the easiest and most organic to follow. The second option means havung to search a thread when all i want is a direct link to an exact posting.

Based on what I'm seeing from others and Gaile, the second option would allow you to click on it and it would take you right to the Dev post, so you wouldn't have to go hunting for it. Then, you could click on the little arrow to the right which would take you to the next Dev post. Presuming of course that Vanilla van even do anything close to what is going to be asked for.

Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

PoE's forums does it best. It is very flexible, to either only see Dev posts — and Dev posts should not be put at the very top (like the second poll option suggests), because viewers may not way to see Dev responses above someone's OP and everyone else's posts — or to see all posts.

The only time a Dev's post should display at the very top within any thread is if the Dev's post is the OP.

Here is a video to show how the Dev Tracker can really be improved:

Note: Watch the behavior of the UI. I go about two different ways to view Dev posts, and one of those ways involve simply clicking on the Dev post icon next to any thread with a Dev post. In GW2's case, that would be the Anet icon (if a similar system is implemented)

On another note, I also hint in the beginning of the video that the forums here should have 'sorting' options, because there are none. On PoE's forum, when you open any of the sub-forums, you can sort what you want within any of those sub-forums by: Post + Bump Time, Post Time, Creation Time, and Title. Not only that, there is a sort by 'Descending' or sort by 'Ascending' options.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
The "carousel" already shows all recent posts, including ones from the same thread. So I'd rather a "devtracker" just show the most recent thread in which a developer has posted.
Ideally, each would have a forward and backward arrow, so we can easily navigate to earlier/later posts.

That is on my request list. It remains to be seen if it -- well, if any of this -- can happen.

Gaile, what do you mean, "Well, if any of this can happen."? This is 2018, lol, come on. Other sites have done forums well, so why do you doubt the company's capabilities? At least, that is what it sounds like.

@Eidolonemesis.5640 said:
Gaile, what do you mean, "Well, if any of this can happen."? This is 2018, lol, come on. Other sites have done forums well, so why do you doubt the company's capabilities? At least, that is what it sounds like.

These are generic forums by Vanilla Forums. Vanilla isn't going to go out of their way to create a custom dev tracker for ArenaNet, they're just going to give them what they already offer. They also seem reluctant to help, considering the safe draft popup apparently couldn't be moved, yet they intentionally moved it there in the first place.

The first option is definitely possible, considering it's the standard format and already implemented.

@Eidolonemesis.5640 said:
Gaile, what do you mean, "Well, if any of this can happen."? This is 2018, lol, come on. Other sites have done forums well, so why do you doubt the company's capabilities? At least, that is what it sounds like.

These are generic forums by Vanilla Forums. Vanilla isn't going to go out of their way to create a custom dev tracker for ArenaNet, they're just going to give them what they already offer. They also seem reluctant to help, considering the safe draft popup apparently couldn't be moved, yet they intentionally moved it there in the first place.

The first option is definitely possible, considering it's the standard format and already implemented.

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:
We're talking to Vanilla Forums about improving our Dev Tracker. (Hoorray and cross fingers!) There are two ways we can do this, pending their ability to make the changes we request.

Please keep in mind that any changes are still tentative, and that if we are able to effect improvements, it will be a long-range project, not something we'll see in the next few weeks or months. Still, we'd very much like to have a more effective and useful Dev Tracker, so your input would be very welcome.

Hi Gaile.. Can I make a .. maybe silly comment about option 1?

"Have each and every dev post show up in the tracker, with the most recent at the top. This means the front page of the tracker may have 10 posts from the same thread."

Unless I miss my guess, you are talking about the "Latest ArenaNet Posts" section on the front page, when referring to 10? Because, when I hit the Dev Tracker, I have over 40 threads pop up. (I gave up counting at 40.) Also, isn't the likelihood of 10 ANet employee posts in one thread, and no other ANet posts in other threads, .. a very rare occasion. The player posting changing the raising and falling ranking of the threads is beyond annoying, when all you are looking for is "official" wording on an issue. Which makes option 1 more valuable. I would also like it to actually GO to that dev post. Most of the time, if I have read any of the thread, it will go to the next post after the one I read.. and I have to dig thru pages, looking for an ANet post to hit the ANet symbol.

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:
Here's what I think: If we have a thread listing, you'd click the thread and that would take you immediately to the most recent dev post. You wouldn't need to "dig through the weeds." If you wanted to see previous dev posts you would click the little (hopefully it will be larger, soon) arrow to the right of the dev post which would take you to the next dev post. If you're at the last dev post in the thread, you'd move to the first in the thread and, using the arrows, move through each dev post in order posted.

I think the option of showing threads rather than singular posts would only be beneficial over singular posts if there was a preview of what the content of the dev's response was because there are many times they could simply be responding to a player posting in the wrong thread or whatnot per example (read: irrelevant to what you're looking for in that thread) and thus still make the experience clogged. Being able to see the content of the posts is in my opinion far more important and you can simply skim through a post and scroll down instead of having to open the page and come back to where you were if it does not interest you.

Another idea, if possible, would be to order by thread and bump to the top only when a dev responds in it like suggested but have the option to expand (with an arrow) the thread to preview all dev posts in that thread so no need to open the thread to know if you want to read the discussion. This suggestion is probably the hardest to execute but honestly the one that would benefit everyone

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
I've posted this elsewhere (Bugs sub-forum), but I'm not sure if it will be seen before discussing the Dev Tracker with Vanilla.

It seems one of the problems with the Dev Tracker is it is tracking backwards: the newest Dev posts/threads are on the last page, and the oldest Dev posts/thread are on the first page.

Good luck.

Very interesting. It appears that the discussions are also being sorted by when they were created and not by when the last response in the thread was made on each and every page instead of a continuous descending order across pages. Seems to be double bugged.

Example:
Page 29:

top thread created August 17, 2018 at 01:44pm

bottom thread created August 1, 2018 at 01:15pm

Page 30 (most recently created threads):

top thread created August 22, 2018 at 03:59pm

bottom thread created August 19, 2018 at 03:26am

WOW - Done with forums for good now! - Someone creates a thread about Pharus's light on crit effect asking if it is a bug - I get warned for being "off topic" for commenting how to use the search and pointing out threads discussing Pharus and it being an intended effect... Goodbye all. Happy gaming.