I feel the Enclave are 'Ridiculous' Just going around shooting anything that moves Human or not.

I believe that Robert House said it best:

"Because they're ridiculous, because they galavant around pretending to be knights of yore and believe that all pre-war technology somehow belongs to them."

They are basically no better than scavangers, they don't even really produce their own tech (nor do they take any interest in techonology that is not of a military nature).

Also they are not as "good" as some people like to think. Even the oh-so white knights of the capital wasteland shoot ghouls indescriminately and without remorse, in that respect then, they're not much "better" than the Enclave when it comes to mutation descrimination. Yet somehow, Brotherhood supporters always overlook that point when toting the righteousness of their organization.

As for the Enclave, these are the reasons I support them:

These are the main reasons I support the Enclave:

1. Whats in a name? Personally their title "The Enclave" brillantly sums up something I love about them. The fact that they are indeed an enclave, in the defintion of the word, which means that they are a isolated group in the midst of a "whole lotta other crap" (thats the technical term for the wasteland btw). The fact that they are isolationist is one thing that drew me to them. Their strategy, in my view, is amazing. They sit back and work on building their strength while waiting for the opportune moment to strike when everyone else is fighting and weaking each other. Brillant.

2. Technology and Military Power: They are without a doubt the most advanced faction in the game universe. Their ability to develop and create new weapons, defenses, robots, and even the only aircraft in the world (the Verti-birds) makes me feel like I'm supporting a faction that knows what its doing in terms of actually being able to rebuild the ruined wastes. While others sit in squalor and twiddle their thumbs like morons (looking at you BoS), the Enclave has tech that they could never even come close to matching.

Their military strength is also something that is a sight to behold. As I said before, they are the only faction with the ability to have air-superiority and advanced logistics and mobility. Lets face it, had Lyon's or the Chosen one not been aided by bad writing, there is no real way that either of them would have succeeded in defeating the Enclave. (orbital strike targeting the citadel). Their advanced techonolgy also factors into their strength as a military. They are the sole (I would guess besides any pre-war ones) source of plasma rifles and plasma based weaponry in the wasteland. Maybe not necessarily in the west (plasma in Fallout 1), but the East for certain. They are able to arm even the lowest ranked of their soldiers with a least a laser rifle and Advanced Power Armor and their strongest with Hellfire armor and an incinerator. Not even the high and mighty Brotherhood that everyone seems to like so much can match this, not even by a long shot. I also don't see their "lack of numbers" as a weakness. Indeed in some ways I see it as a strength.

3. Stars and Stipes Forever: They are without a doubt the United States of America. The Enclave of the United States of America is not just a fancy title you know. I like how the Enclave are also related to COG (Continuty of Government) plans and how they retain control over pre-war bases and bunkers (Raven Rock and Adams AFB for example).

4. Destroy, Rebuild, and Renew: Contrary to what alot of people seem to think. The Enclave aren't in the buisness of genocide for the fun of it. They are restoring the old world by removing what they see as a grave threat to the future of the human race, mutants (and are they wrong in this?) The Enclave just truly feel that the "ends justify the means" in this case.

I don't overlook the fact they attack all mutants and I generally sopprt them.

I like them not really being the White Knights everybody thinks they are.

And thats perfectly fine, I would be a complete hypocrite if I said you couldn't support a faction that descriminates against mutations.

However, when someone refuses to recognize their elitist tendencies and says how much more righteous the Brotherhood is compared to the Enclave, and how all they want to do is help wastelanders and be compassionate, that's when I take issue.

The Enclave, well obviously. Why? Pretty much for the same reason as Lt., we only ever disagree on President Eden whom I dislike and he supports.

In addition to the Ghoul discrimination let's not forget that they passed through the Pitt too, they killed everyone they came across and took any un-mutated children with them to be indoctrinated into their organisation; kidnappers & anti-mutants. Of course people support them because they do good. and we see and are constantly reminded of that fact. The Enclave will eventually produce an effective and good society for all remaining humankind, eccept that that has to be preceeded him several incredibly immoral acts. I mean I asked one guy what he thought the Enclave would do when they won and he said, "Enslave any who survive & continue inhuman experiments", something to that effect and I mean Christ; talk about a radid assumtion based on very little.

Whatever you think that the Enclave are, you are probably wrong; like to imagine lots of smug, cackling fat-cats in big comfy leather chairs? The Enclave citizens are a heavily indoctrinated people, brought up on a diet of patriotism & un-questioning support, strengthened by a lack of any form of comparison; they certainly don't need slaves. With all enemies defeated, the authoritarian Enclave will become obselete very quickly, especially as there is no constant figure to "hate", and will become a much more liberal state where everyone is healthy, happy, well-fed, educated and has a purpose and job; generations after the genocide will not be affiliated with the past Enclave but will continue to feel it's benefits, human society will be pretty good and an ideal world for expansion.

The Enclave should have mopped the floor with the Brotherhood, look at http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100407213557/fallout/images/archive/8/87/20110205045543!Fo3_Liberty_Prime.png, they are just exposed metal girder and cables; at the start ofhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDZlNgD8LR8&feature=related (4:06-4:20), right outside the Citadel, three Vertibirds fly in from behind it and could very easily just unload missiles into it. Instead two fly straight past and the other slows down in front of it (all the while actually aiming at Prime), spins around and then starts shooting with it's laser before Prime anhilates it. That's the US Army folks, that's the Enclave people want back so bad!

right outside the Citadel, three Vertibirds fly in from behind it and could very easily just unload missiles into it. Instead two fly straight past and the other slows down in front of it (all the while actually aiming at Prime), spins around and then starts shooting with it's laser before Prime anhilates it.

Yeah pretty much Prime was the one of the worst aspects of Fallout 3's writing.

I also hate how the BOS is scared to death of the Enclave when they first show up (saying how they "look like cavemen" compared to them) and are worried about how they are going to be able to combat them.

Then its just (at the last possible second) "Oh hey! Lets fire up this indestructible and competely god-like mecha that we just happen to have laying around and have just happened to get fully operational and working in the last few days. That'll work!"

Yeah pretty much Prime was the one of the worst aspects of Fallout 3's writing.

I also hate how the BOS is scared to death of the Enclave when they first show up (saying how they "look like cavemen" compared to them) and are worried about how they are going to be able to combat them.

Then its just (at the last possible second) "Oh hey! Lets fire up this indestructible and competely god-like mecha that we just happen to have laying around and have just happened to get fully operational and working in the last few days. That'll work!"

The Enclave are the power elite of the old USA, one of the groups who brought the world to its current state.Its not just supermutants and ghoul they want to wipe out, its also the vast majority of the population of the Wasteland

The BoS are a group of self-righteous arrogant isolationists. As said they also kill ghouls, just for what they are, regardless of what if anything they've doneThe Outcasts are much the same but even more so

I am pretty much with Amazon Queen here. The Enclave are wannabe Nazis who are trying to pretend that America still exists, even as they subvert everything the country once stood for as they are ruled by totalitarian dictators who employ a racist ideology that aims at killing nearly every living thing on the planet. Then you have the BOS, who are just scavengers who had the advantage of starting out 200 years ago in a secret weapons facility. I do not fault them for being tough, ruthless bastiches, everyone has to be to a certain extent in the Wasteland. But they also appear to view the world as an Us vs. Them arrangement, and if you were not born in the BOS, you probably fall on the Them side of the line. Just ask the ghouls in Underworld. The Outcasts of course exemplify the BOS at its worst.

I still pick them over the Enclave however, as the BOS does not seem to be actively seeking out the domination of the continent and committing genocide in the bargain. You can at least steer clear of the BOS and go about your life. Not so with the Enclave. They will try to kill you as soon as they look at you, and try to poison the water in order to kill all the people they cannot see.

I prefer the brotherhood of steel they have a bit of humanity to them (well east bos )and the get me all jived up with there tech but the enclave are a bit to harsh at times but i like both but i probably support bos push comes to shove or punch comes to plasma need be.

I love how Enclave supporters are so quick to point out the scourge *cough The Enclave cough* and the Brotherhood killing the trogs and raiders in the area when the Enclave wants to commit genoocide of EVERYONE in the wasteland thats not "pure human".

The Brotherhood is far from perfect and im a huge fan of them, especially Lyons cell on the east coast, but there far from being as bad as the Enclave is.

I love how Enclave supporters are so quick to point out the scourge *cough The Enclave cough* and the Brotherhood killing the trogs and raiders in the area when the Enclave wants to commit genoocide of EVERYONE in the wasteland thats not "pure human".

The Brotherhood is far from perfect and im a huge fan of them, especially Lyons cell on the east coast, but there far from being as bad as the Enclave is.

Enclave people always site "bad fo3 writing" as the reason for their demise as well, but they never mention the fo2 writing where a tribal infiltrated their home and sabotaged it to blow it up. lol That must have been good writing. lol

Only reason they made to loose fo2 and fo3 is because they r the bad guys. Bad guys loose in stories 97 times out of 100 no matter who writes it. ............. evil loses in stories.

Enclave people always site "bad fo3 writing" as the reason for their demise as well, but they never mention the fo2 writing where a tribal infiltrated their home and sabotaged it to blow it up. lol That must have been good writing. lol

No.....actually me and Mr. Enclave have frequently pointed out our dislike for the "tribal infiltrated the Oil Rig" part of the fallout 2 storyline. It is bad writing that a tribal was able to get on the Oil Rig via a gigantic tanker, how did they miss that?

love how Enclave supporters are so quick to point out the scourge *cough The Enclave cough* and the Brotherhood killing the trogs and raiders in the area when the Enclave wants to commit genoocide of EVERYONE in the wasteland thats not "pure human".

You clearly have no idea what we were referring to when we made those comments about the scourge. We recognize that the Enclave are not good people, have we ever made an argument to the contrary? No. Its whether or not their end goal justifies the means, and I think it does.

When the scourge and the indescriminate killing of ghouls is brought up, it refers to the fact that Brotherhood supporters often overlook these points, and automatically assume they are supporting a faction that can do no wrong, and that is incorrect, in many ways the Brotherhood harbors the same sorts of elitist beliefs that the Enclave does, just to a different degree.

I'm not sure who I align with really. The game wants you to align with the BoS because, well, the Enclave are hostile to you, they caused Dad to commit suicide (in a way) and they stole Project purity from youwhen it was rightly yours.

But the enclave are far more technologically advanced and far more geared up into rebuilding the world, despite their murderous endeavours. The BoS just sit around, saluaging rusty old tech and keeping the CW in the dark ages but they are generally good people, unlike the enclave. :twirl:

No.....actually me and Mr. Enclave have frequently pointed out our dislike for the "tribal infiltrated the Oil Rig" part of the fallout 2 storyline. It is bad writing that a tribal was able to get on the Oil Rig via a gigantic tanker, how did they miss that?

You clearly have no idea what we were referring to when we made those comments about the scourge. We recognize that the Enclave are not good people, have we ever made an argument to the contrary? No. Its whether or not their end goal justifies the means, and I think it does.

When the scourge and the indescriminate killing of ghouls is brought up, it refers to the fact that Brotherhood supporters often overlook these points, and automatically assume they are supporting a faction that can do no wrong, and that is incorrect, in many ways the Brotherhood harbors the same sorts of elitist beliefs that the Enclave does, just to a different degree.

Yeah well said old sport.

I like too how the Scourge is covered up as just The Scourge, "Yeah well the Enclave wants to kill everyone so the BoS are still good." Apex said that the trogs would just kill the children born there, so what you are saying is that the BoS was justified in taking the kids from a bad existance, so what you are saying is that the killing of everyone in the Pitt (not all of whom were trogs) was okay, so what you are saying is that the ends justify the means... oh wait.

People who cite the BoS say a lot of valid points but always skirt over [censored] like this, I have never once said that the Enclave were good people, only that the outcome would be good.

I like too how the Scourge is covered up as just The Scourge, "Yeah well the Enclave wants to kill everyone so the BoS are still good." Apex said that the trogs would just kill the children born there, so what you are saying is that the BoS was justified in taking the kids from a bad existance, so what you are saying is that the killing of everyone in the Pitt (not all of whom were trogs) was okay, so what you are saying is that the ends justify the means... oh wait.

People who cite the BoS say a lot of valid points but always skirt over [censored] like this, I have never once said that the Enclave were good people, only that the outcome would be good.

Well actually you said that some of the Trogs in the Pitt had children so therefore it was just as bad for the Brotherhood to kill them as what the Enclave does and I said that the trogs were mutated beyond help so killing them was the only real option the Brotherhood had.

I'll never say that the Brotherhood is perfect, just like i'll never say that the NCR is perfect, and I support both of those factions (the east coast Brotherhood anyway) over anybody else. But what I will say is they are better than the alternative's that are out there. The master wanted to turn everyone into mutants, the Enclave wanted to kill everyone who wasn't pure, and the Legion wants to enslave everyone. Could you say that the end results of all of those things would be better than what we have in the wasteland now? Maybe, but again the ends dont justify the means.

Well actually you said that some of the Trogs in the Pitt had children so therefore it was just as bad for the Brotherhood to kill them as what the Enclave does and I said that the trogs were mutated beyond help so killing them was the only real option the Brotherhood had.

I'll never say that the Brotherhood is perfect, just like i'll never say that the NCR is perfect, and I support both of those factions (the east coast Brotherhood anyway) over anybody else. But what I will say is they are better than the alternative's that are out there. The master wanted to turn everyone into mutants, the Enclave wanted to kill everyone who wasn't pure, and the Legion wants to enslave everyone. Could you say that the end results of all of those things would be better than what we have in the wasteland now? Maybe, but again the ends dont justify the means.

No I didn't, why would a trog, with no visable reproductive organs, have a human child? Again, I doubt that the entire population of the Pitt were Trogs and innocent children, the BoS killed and still kills innocent poeople; I am just annyoed however by the predominant view that they are the goodly knights of yore that shalt do no wrong. You have admitted that that is not the case, therefore, I don't have a bone to pick with you.