This actually makes sense for how the Broncos can trade-up to land a viable replacement QB. I hadn't thought of this but it really makes sense. I wouldn't be suprised if it went down something like this but I don't agree with the Bengals pick that they have here.

That actually makes a lot of sense. Denver could easily move up three slots in the draft for the extra third rounder that they got from Chicago and then try to find someone with the 18th pick in the first round for their defensive line because they are switching to the 3-4 and don't have anyone to play nose and the guys they have to play end are undersized.

In the KFFL scenario they would miss on Tyson Jackson (go to the link to see the rest of the mock) and end up with an OLB/DE pass rusher. Still a good selection but the defense will crumble even worse than it did last year without a nose or even one viable 3-4 DE but if they can snare Sanchez for only a third then it would be worth it IMHO.

ManKok isn't able to trade down, or doesn't want to and we draft Orakpo.

I give that a 95% chance of happening.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Hiko wrote:I would say there's a 99% chance the Browns can't trade down, even if they want to.

The #5 pick is a curse, not a boon.

At this point I wonder if you take a chance at drafting Crabtree?

He sounds like the best player overall this year and the (starting) receiving corp would be boosted to the top of the league rather quickly

from the sound of it Mankok hasn't even entertained that possibility and has not brought him in for an interview or gave him a look at the combine or senior bowl. It seems rather tempting as he really reminds me of Fitzgerald, but I've seen other comparisons of him to Braylon, so that may not be such a good idea.

One would figure they've locked on to Robiskie from the sound of it.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

they need to trade BE to the Giants, then draft Crabtree 5th. get a buncha picks in round 2 and 3 and go defense crazy. Larry English, DJ Moore, Clint Sintim, Micheal Johnson, and Connor Barwim are all vary nice 2nd round possibilities

"i've been gettin G-ed up since i came out the hospital as a baby. i didn't wear pampers, i wore some slacks and some gators on the way home.""in order for us to grow u gotta know, in order to love the brotherman, u gotta know the otherman. because one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish. knick knack paddy wack, give the dog a bone." - Delonte West

I would definitely trade Braylon for a 1st and 2nd and we give up a 4th. I would draft Crabtree with the 5th...or go defense and draft a receiver in the late 1st. I think we need to accumulate as many picks as possible to start building a team that may have a shot at being competitive.

If you say that you are serious then engage and don't do a drive-by:how a guy who obviously follows the Broncos like a stalker seems oblivious to the fact that

I live in Colorado, have for decades and had the fantastic timing of coming here right before Elroy. I could go on a five page rant about the Denver media shoving Donkey slop down my throat. Your tag claims that you live in Houston. Do you expect people to accuse you of stalking the Texans if you dared to say that you knew anything more about that team based off of your knowledge of local media swill being shoved down your gullet? The Texans don't have nearly the invasive media converage as the Broncos do. So if anything the media stalks viewers rather than the other way around in Colorado.

These two obvious and distinct points and shouldn't be linked. Their are two stages of science, first is analysis, the second is synthesis. Analizing means to literally tear something down. Synthesis means to put it back together in a manner that makes sense. So don't get sloppy, break down the parts of what you're trying to uncover:

1. Their defense blows dead goats

2. Dougie Howsercoach has an enormous ego and made an art form of winning with cast off QBs.

The defense sucks! True statement and extremely obvious, I'm not sure what you want me to add to a statement of the obvious.

Dougie does have an ego yet you failed to mention he got rid of a franchise QB. The second part of that statement isn't entirely true. Josh McDaniels wasn't a coach on any of the Patriot SB winning teams. He wasn't even the OC during the record shattering SB losing season to the G-Men. He's only has five years of NFL coaching on his resume, four as a QB coach and only one (last year) as an NFL coordinator. Add first time GM Brian Xanders and you got two guys who have bearly sprouted their first NFL pubes.

Don't gloss over the fact that the Donkey duo got rid of Cutler and that leaves a huge FREAKING hole on the Denver roster.

Why in the name of A-Basin is Denver NOT going D in Round 1?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I'll reply with a very poingant question of my own.

Why would Lovie Smith (a coach who has a long track record and has a SB to his credit) and Jerry Angelo who has a decent track record of drafting defenders and who had a 'functional' QB want to trade away Orton and two first round draft picks and a third rounder for a QB?

Two quick follow up Qs. Do you think Lovie and Jerry think Orton is a franchise QB? And do you think that they believe that Cutler is a franchise QB?

… It has really overshadowed all the free agents Denver has signed. Denver has signed 13 free agents this off-season, most notably S Brian Dawkins, CB Andre Goodman, RB LaMont Jordan, and WR Jabar Gaffney. Had this Cutler mess not materialized they would figure to be one of the big winners of the free agency period.

Based on where things are at right now I blame GM Brian Xanders and Josh McDaniels for where this mess is right now. While Cutler could be handling the situation better and is not without blame the fact is that had they not shopped him they would not be in this spot. An experienced GM and Head Coach would 1) Never have proposed a trade of a franchise QB and not closed the deal, 2) Never would have told their quarterback that they had not initiated the trade discussions, and 3) Would have patched this up by now instead of trying to repair it through text messages and media interviews. These two have done their best to make a bad situation worse.

The Donkeys NEVER wanted to dish Cutler. The plan was NEVER to trade away the franchise for a late first and third rounder this year and what reasonably is going to be a late first next year in a spit swap of Cutler for Orton.

The Donks were setting the table for a transition on defense, the last thing they wanted was a gaping maw on offense to contend with. They were signing free agents like nobody's bidnezz.

But you don't even mention the loss of Culter.

… Here are three facts about Jay Cutler. 1) The only quarterbacks in NFL history that have had more than 4,526 yards passing in a single season are as follows: Drew Bledsoe, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Daunte Culpepper, Dan Fouts, Rich Gannon, Trent Green, Neil Lomax, Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Warren Moon, and Kurt Warner.

Jay Cutler has not established himself as a Hall of Fame quarterback. He hasn’t proven that he can be a winner in the postseason. But he has proven he can put up numbers in the NFL. He has proven he has a NFL arm and belongs in the league as a starter. Not everyone on those three lists list is going to be a Hall of Famer, but all the quarterbacks on those three lists have had numerous years of NFL success. There isn’t a Ryan Leaf or Joey Harrington that accomplished those things. Any team would be lucky to have someone of Jay Cutler’s talent on their roster to build a team around. At 25-years old the sky is the limit for this guy.

… Jay Cutler did not have a negative history with his coaching staff when Mike Shanahan was there. He does not have a history of problems with his teammates. He does not have a history of being lazy. Therefore, I’m not really that worried about him being upset that Denver attempted to trade him. That alone does not make him a head case.

Da Bears got the better of the deal in a slam dunk. They are the ones who traded Orton and picks. Lovie and Angelo have seen years of Kyle so they know he's not a franchise QB and they've got decades worth of NFL chops, they are banking on Cut.

Denfense? First tell me why Chicago didn't just keep Orton and two first round picks and their third and keep building up that defense and win with a 'functional' QB?

And do you honestly think that Denver is better off with a late first and third this year and what is more than likely a late first next year with with a huge hole at QB PLUS their defense to rebuild? Oh yeah, and the Boy Blunders in charge of the entire mess?

So you just explain why Chicago, whose defense isn't a train wreck and who had Orton and two first round picks wouldn't just take the safe route and keep chugging down that path of mediocrity but instead traded for a young franchise QB in his prime? Are they fucking idiots or are the Boy Blunders with ZERO head coaching experience and ZERO general manager experience the ones with the grand plan to build up the Denver defense and who will show the entire world who is smarter? LOL, I'm sorry but this is just hysterical to me.

Its not even close. Chicago raped Denver but you go ahead and make the case for trading away the franchise QB and then explain how easy it will be for Denver to replace Cut and rebuild the ENTIRE defense with the TWO first round and ONE third round pick that they got.

Hayzooz Bob, lighten up. I am not asking for a disseratation on why Pat Bowlen is a doosh or how the Broncos effed up. I don't really care about Angelo's desperation for a franchise QB, either. I am curious as to why you believe Denver is going to either draft/trade one/both of their number ones for a QB. Your opinion, and also what you have read locally. What I have heard from some of the local ESPN affiliate guys and national media is that McDaniels feels he can get by with what he has and Broncos will draft D. You seem to differ. I'm just asking why.

I'll reply with a very poingant question of my own.

Why would Lovie Smith (a coach who has a long track record and has a SB to his credit) and Jerry Angelo who has a decent track record of drafting defenders and who had a 'functional' QB want to trade away Orton and two first round draft picks and a third rounder for a QB?

Two quick follow up Qs. Do you think Lovie and Jerry think Orton is a franchise QB? And do you think that they believe that Cutler is a franchise QB?

If you truly want to engage then engage.

Whatever. The Bears think they need Cutler to put them over the top. The time is right, the fan base as well as the management team is frustrated with the revolving QB situation, so spend now and get the ring. It's not rocket science. Yes, they obviously think Cutler is >>>>>>>>>Orten. So does most everyone on the planet. The question isn't about the Bears, it's about whether Denver feels they need a franchise QB to win, or is their philosphy one of "managing the game" with some run of the mill guy while they improve the D?

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

mattvan1 wrote:Hayzooz Bob, lighten up. I am not asking for a disseratation on why Pat Bowlen is a doosh or how the Broncos effed up. I don't really care about Angelo's desperation for a franchise QB, either. I am curious as to why you believe Denver is going to either draft/trade one/both of their number ones for a QB. Your opinion, and also what you have read locally. What I have heard from some of the local ESPN affiliate guys and national media is that McDaniels feels he can get by with what he has and Broncos will draft D. You seem to differ. I'm just asking why.

I'll reply with a very poingant question of my own.

Why would Lovie Smith (a coach who has a long track record and has a SB to his credit) and Jerry Angelo who has a decent track record of drafting defenders and who had a 'functional' QB want to trade away Orton and two first round draft picks and a third rounder for a QB?

Two quick follow up Qs. Do you think Lovie and Jerry think Orton is a franchise QB? And do you think that they believe that Cutler is a franchise QB?

If you truly want to engage then engage.

Whatever. The Bears think they need Cutler to put them over the top. The time is right, the fan base as well as the management team is frustrated with the revolving QB situation, so spend now and get the ring. It's not rocket science. Yes, they obviously think Cutler is >>>>>>>>>Orten. So does most everyone on the planet. The question isn't about the Bears, it's about whether Denver feels they need a franchise QB to win, or is their philosphy one of "managing the game" with some run of the mill guy while they improve the D?

Hayzooz, I don't care either, whatever? Nice engaging conversation opening lines. I picture a teenage girl rolling her eyes and twisting her hair. I've been laughing my ass off at the Broncos and their screwups but it seems that unfortunately others aren't in on the laugh and how big they screwed up. This is wicked funny so I am trying hard to explain.

The point that I hammered home is the scale of an NFL franchise quarterback. Scale, as is England bombed Dresdin Germany during WWII but people don't cluck their tongues and ask why England would do such a terrible thing as if they didn't understand that something significant preceeded that atrocity. SCALE or context is how to wiegh the trade off of a franchise QB with draft picks to help shore up a piss poor defense verses the cost to replace a franchise QB.

The Denver/Chicago trade wasn't about Orton or those draft picks, or the Denver defense, it was all about Cutler and more specifically the value of an NFL franchise QB and how the Donkeys are going to get out of the mess that they are in.

I saw the KFFL mock and thought, wow they could begin to crawl out of this mess and NOT PAY a huge price. That is the key.

... Mike Sando: Quarterbacks are a high-risk proposition at the top of the draft, but that's also where teams tend to find the great ones. Seven of the last nine quarterbacks enshrined in Canton were first-round picks, including a guy named Elway. If the experts are right in saying Matthew Stafford and Mark Sanchez are the franchise quarterbacks in this draft, shouldn't the Broncos consider trading up to get one? They certainly have the firepower.Bill Williamson: There's no way the Broncos should trade up that high if it means giving up both the 12th and 18th overall picks. Sure, Denver could get a top-five pick in return, but I don't think it's worth the risk -- even for a quarterback...… Bill Williamson: I do think Denver needs to find a way to get Sanchez. You're right in saying the Seahawks and 49ers could stand in the way. In the big picture, I think it is a waste for Denver to have to draft another young quarterback just three years after it traded up to pick Cutler, but this is the situation Denver put itself in by creating the Cutler mess. The Broncos have to dig their way out, and taking Sanchez would be the perfect start.Several scouts I have talked to believe he'd be a great fit for coach Josh McDaniels' system. In fact, Sanchez reminds some of Matt Cassel, the smoking gun in the Cutler saga. Sanchez would be the answer at quarterback for Denver. Kyle Orton and Chris Simms are not.I like the idea of Denver drafting Sanchez so much, I could see the Broncos trading up a few spots -- as long as it doesn't cost them the 18th pick to get him. Yes, you can argue that McDaniels, a staunch supporter of the Patriot Way, could try to identify a quarterback in the late rounds. Tom Brady was a sixth-rounder and Cassel was found in the seventh.But McDaniels doesn't have time to hope lightning strikes a third time. If he doesn't find a quarterback to adequately replace Cutler, his career in Denver will be a short one. He needs someone to hitch his wagon to, and Sanchez seems to be the perfect guy.… Bill Williamson: If Sanchez is gone, and assuming Stafford is off the board as well, the Broncos will have to bite the bullet and try to figure out their quarterback issue later. Still, Denver can get a lot of value from its two first-round picks. Defense needed to be the major focus of the draft anyway, so Denver has to identify two players who can fit into the 3-4 scheme immediately.

This is spot on analysis.

Sanchez is a franchise QB PROSPECT, their is a HUGE chasim between a franchise PROSPECT and a proven NFL franchise QB like Jay Cutler. Prospects carry risk, especially Juniors coming out early with only SIXTEEN collegiate starts under their belts but Sanchez does project quite nicely, very nicely.

So if Doogie can move up three slots and only give up a second or third then he has to if he thinks Dirty fits his system and he does. That is why I saw this mock and thought, very good speculation.

Ahem, I don't think it was a coincidence that Grossi ran a story today saying that the Browns are SMITTEN with Sanchez.

I honestly think we are, no joke. Dirty won't make it to the twelth pick so if Denver wants him they're going to have to trade up. BQ isn't out of the picture yet either.

Denver's D?

They are switching to a 3-4. If BJ falls then they will be doing cartwheels at the Dove Valley war room but their is even less chance that he falls.

Denver is, screwed, blued, and tatooed. This is funny stuff, I wish others were in on the joke.

I have yet to understand why we are STILL talking about the BRONCOS, the team that screwed us out of a shot to play in three Super Bowls, over you..know the team with that uh, has the 5th pick in the draft, and you know..actually "plays" (using that term loosely) in C-Town?

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

If I'm Denver, I'm drafting D this draft and seeing if Orton is good enough to manage the team. If he is, then great - you didn't mortgage the future to draft a "franchise" QB (especially since drafting a QB high has plenty of chance of backfiring).

If he isn't, then you have plenty of good options out there next year - McCoy, Bradford, hell, I even like Tebow more than Stafford and Sanchez.

McDaniels has more than one year to win. I don't care what the fans say.

Hiko wrote:If I'm Denver, I'm drafting D this draft and seeing if Orton is good enough to manage the team. If he is, then great - you didn't mortgage the future to draft a "franchise" QB (especially since drafting a QB high has plenty of chance of backfiring).

If he isn't, then you have plenty of good options out there next year - McCoy, Bradford, hell, I even like Tebow more than Stafford and Sanchez.

McDaniels has more than one year to win. I don't care what the fans say.

Denver is probably going to be forced to draft defense to keep that D above water so they had better not miss and in addition they had better get immediate production from the first round.

McDaniels lost his honeymoon period in the court of public opinion. He's on thin ice but Bowlen can't ditch him without losing face. And you NEVER pass on a franchise QB with the idea that you can 'easily get' a franchise QB the following year. NEVER.

This is how I project the top twenty picks to go with one trade up for Sanchez but I don't think the Broncos have the stones to make the deal.

Fergus NFL mock draft 2009

1.Detroit Lions-Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia 6-21/4, 225, 4.810-16 with Daunte Culpepper starting. No stability at QB for decades. This puts a face on the franchise and provides stability. Matt started as a true freshman so he’s smart and has lots of starts to evaluate. He’s got prototypical size and a big time arm to fit into tight corners yet he also has nice touch as well. He has shown that he can overcome adversity so he can take the heat of starting in Detroit. "They need a franchise quarterback and he fits the system because of the big arm you need to feed Calvin Johnson," said Detroit Free Press' Lions beat writer Nicholas Cotsonika.

2. St. Louis Rams-Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia 6-51/4, 309, 5.23 They lose Pace but find a young stud replacement to man the helm for the next decade, nice! Last year they missed out on Jake Long and it ate at them. They choose Monroe over Smith due to being a better run blocker for RB Steven Jackson. St. Louis finished 25th in rushing yards per game and 27th in the league in sacks allowed. "They have a great need for tackle, and will likely go that route unless Aaron Curry has a super high grade. People inside the building are split on Jason Smith and Eugene Monroe," said Jim Thomas, Rams beat writer for the St. Louis Post Dispatch. Monroe has had a lot of experience and played great during his career at Virginia. He had some injury issues but when he was healthy he was dominate. He has great athleticism and has the long arms to be successful in the NFL.

3. Kansas City Chiefs-Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest 6-13/4, 254, 4.56Getting Cassel allows the Chiefs to zero in on the transition to the 3-4 and that means linebackers. Mike Vrabel is the perfect tutor for Curry who is s thumper who can, drop, stack and shed, decent in coverage, and he looks like he can come off the edge. Pioli took the DROY in Mayo last year and he might make it two DYORs in a row with Curry.. "Linebacker by far is their weakest area considering they had to bring in two guys off the street last year. Jason Smith would be a close second," said Kent Babb, Kansas City Star Chiefs writer.

4. Seattle Seahawks-Michael Crabtree, WR Texas Tech 6-13/8, 215, 4.55 I think Crabby could turn out to be the BPOD (Best Player Of the Draft). Prototypical size, great route runner, fantastic lateral quickness, shows solid cuts/fakes. Lacks blazing speed but attacks the ball in flight with glue-like mitts and then turns up field with perfect body control to find the most direct route away from the defender to gain separation AFTER the catch. Has an eye for the first down marker and goal line. The Seahawks lack playmakers even after landing old T.J. Houshmandzadeh in free agency. The Hawks took a big swing and missed in free agency with Deion Branch and didn’t get stellar production from Nate Burleson but rookie TE Carlson turned in a solid first year. The hole at WR still remains because Branch had his knee scoped after the season and Burleson is coming off an ACL injury. Also Housh is 32 so the Hawks are still in need of playmakers and Crabtree is a blue-chip playmaker at an area of need."I don't think they'll take a tackle based on (GM) Tim Ruskell's history in the draft with the Bucs and the Falcons. He's only taken one offensive lineman in the first round since becoming a director of college scouting. Plus, they are going to a zone blocking scheme. Finding a playmaker is their biggest need," said Danny O'Neil, Seahawks beat writer for the Seattle Times.

5. Cleveland Browns-Brian Orakpo, DE/OLB Texas 6-3, 263, 4.70 Should be able to convert from a DE to a hybrid OLB/DE since he has experience dropping to linebacker with the Horns. Has a great first step rushing from the outside with strength to get down in a four-point stance inside from the DT position where his burst can pay huge dividends to a team like the Browns whose biggest area of need was shoring up the pass rush. Uber athletic freak who threw up, 31 reps on the bench, ran a 4.63 forty, and showed hops with a 39.5 vertical leap. A weight room junkie who can bull rush, known to have power as an interior rusher in passing situations, and is decent in coverage. Browns traveled to Austin to personally work out Orakpo and have brought him into Bureau. The Browns are in dire need of a pass rusher finishing with a paltry 17 sacks the second fewest in the league. Nagurski Award winner as "the best defensive player in the country". NFL draft guru Mike Mayock compares Orakpo favorably to Demarcus Ware....he said "I think he can be that type of player". Plus he can put the hand down and rush when they line-up in a 4-3 and play OLB when they are in a 3-4 (most teams do both at different points in a game)......which means he can be "an every down player"..and that adds value.

6. Cincinnati Bengals-Jason Smith, OT, Baylor 6-41/4, 325, 5.28Fortune smiles on the Bengals for a change as they get the most athletic OLT in the draft. Smith a converted TE has great footwork and projects very well to protect Carson Palmer’s blind-side. The reason Jason falls is because in Baylor’s offense they had Smith lining up in a two-point stance so there are some concerns about his ability as a run blocker. Tough, smart, hard worker, great kick step, likes to hit opponents. “When I'm on the field, I take a lot of pride in physically assaulting people," he said with a smile. "As for finishing them off, that's a part of the block." "The top priority is protecting Carson Palmer and the tackles are sketchy. Levy Jone' status is murky, and Stacy Andrews bolted in free agency. They'd love it if Smith is there because he's a character guy,"said Geoff Hobson, beat writer for Bengals.com.

7. Oakland Raiders-Andre Smith, OT, Alabama - 6-41/4, 325, 5.28The guy that the Raiders were targeting all along in the draft. Smith will start from day one. They made a weak move and sniffed around Khalif Barnes and Orlando Pace but a deep OLT crop didn’t force them to put earnest money down on an offensive linemen who would only have been a head fake to conceal their true plans of drafting Andre Smith. "They need help all along the line and right now they don't have any good tackles. Andre can start for the Raiders right away. [Missouri WR] Jeremy Maclin is a close second, but they have a guy just like him in Johnny Lee Higgins, and the Raiders went out of their way to let everyone know they are happy with the receivers they've got," said Jason Jones, Raiders beat writer for the Sacramento Bee.

8. *TRADE* Jacksonville Jaguars trade with- Washington Redskins who select - Mark Sanchez QB USC 6-21/8, 227, 4.87 Jacksonville’s coach Jack Del Rio shocked the NFL world a few years back when he unceremoniously dumped Byron Leftwitch and named David Garrard as his starting quarterback a week before the season began. Del Rio and the Jags have spent more time with Sanchez than ANY other team in the league, hmmnnn. People will say that Jacksonville inked David Garrard to a long-term $60 million contract so they couldn’t possibly be thinking quarterback besides the Jags desperately need WRs and furthermore Del Rio is under the gun so he doesn’t have the time or luxury to develop a rookie QB so he has to take a pass on Sanchez. Mark Sanchez is coming out early and only had 16 college starts but he stepped up and had a fantastic Pro Day. A top ten pick is risky but if the Jags think he’s a franchise quarterback that they have to take a shot. The Jags are positioned perfectly for a trade-down because Sanchez won’t make it past the Niners and they’ve made enough noise that anyone wanting the last franchise QB is going to have to bust a move to the eighth pick. The Skins not only lost out on Cutler but they haven’t re-upped Jason Cambell. They made their intentions known about how they truly feel about Cambell so they are in the market for Sanchez and will make a better offer than Denver to seal the deal with Jacksonville."They're [franchise QBs] hard to come by," said Bill Polian, president of the Indianapolis Colts, a team that has no quarterback problem. "If you don't have a good one who can lead you from behind, who can win games in the fourth quarter, then you have to have an absolutely dominant defense and you must have a dominant running game and you must have a dominant kicking game. It's that simple. That's the formula if you don't have the quarterback." Former Redskins and Texans GM Charley Casserly on USC quarterback Mark Sanchez. "How do you pass a quarterback when you're not settled at that position?".

9. Green Bay Packers-B.J. Raji. DT/NT, Boston College 6-11/2, 337, 5.13The Pack is making the 3-4 switch so they need a nose so Raji is a perfect fit. B.J. is a monster who can play zero or three technique so he’s highly versatile and a perfect fit for the Packers. B.J. is like Shuan Rodgers in that he is a disrupting force that sabotages blocking schemes. The Pack would never have a shot but B.J. DID FAIL one drug test while at BC and their were other ‘rumors’ of a failed test that have been refuted. Not much a huge slide down the draft board but enough for the Pack to clean up with this selection.

10. San Francisco 49ers-Everette Brown, DE, Florida State 6-11/2, 256, 4.73San Fran would have preferred Orakpo who has better size and strength but they are happy to settle for Brown who isn’t as big but has more pass rush moves. Brown may not be large enough to be counted on against the run but he can bring the heat on passing downs.

11. Buffalo Bills-Aaron Maybin, DE, Penn State 6-33/4, 249, 4.88 The Bills biggest need is finding a pass rusher so they would have liked to snag Everette Brown but they are glad to land on a bed of feathers with Maybin. The Bills finished fourth from the bottom in getting to the QB last year so they are fortunate that this is a deep crop of pass rushing linebackers enables them to come away with a blue-chipper pass rusher in Maybin. The problem is that there are legitimate concerns that Aaron may not have an NFL size frame built up enough in his rookie season to contribute all that much this year but the Bills have to grab the last remaining legit pass rusher on the board and will reap the rewards in the future.

12. Denver Broncos-Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU 6-41/8, 296, 4.95 The Broncos would have loved to get Sanchez to fill the void left by the trade of Jay Cutler and secretly were hoping that somehow that B.J. Raji would fall to them but that was a pipe dream so they settle for Tyson Jackson. Denver has a glaring need on their D-Line for big-bodied 3-4 linemen so they reach a bit on their board and bypass CB Malcom Jenkins. They won’t be able to fill their biggest need to replace Cutler but they can address their biggest need on defense with Tyson. Tyson is a big body who can rush the QB and eat up blockers so he should be able to stay on the field for all three downs and should fit nicely on their 3-4 D-Line. A bit of a reach but he has potential to blow up.

13. **TRADE** Washington Redskins trade with- Jacksonville Jaguars who select- Jeremy Maclin, WR Missouri 6-01/8, 198, 4.46 Glaring need meets a decent prospect and if the Jags can arrange a trade-down then they won’t be reaching and can get some compensation in return. Solid production, nice size, good nuff speed, solid hands, quick acceleration, and can return kicks.

14. New Orleans Saints-Malcolm Jenkins, CB Ohio State 6-01/8. 204, 4.55 Nice size, over six foot for a corner but the slowish forty time is the reason for the slight slip down the board. Worst case scenario is that Jenkins will make the switch to safety but the Saints will be glad to get a ‘potential’ lock down corner or cover-safety to help firm up their secondary.

15. Houston Texans-Rey Maualuga, LB, USC - 6-13/4, 249, 4.82 The Texans were looking at Rey‘s USC team mate (Clay Mathews III) because they didn‘t expect him to drop into their laps but they‘ll take him. Proto typical size but so-so speed and comes with questions as to whether or not that he can be more than a two-down linebacker that would be a detriment in the passing game. Their isn’t any concerns over Rey’s toughness or his intimidating physical-style of play. A thumper!

16. San Diego Chargers-Chris "Beanie" Wells, RB, Ohio ST. 6-1, 235, 4.59 The Bolts would have loved to have gotten Rey but they’ll take the first running back off the boards in Beanie Wells who improved on his forty time from the slow 4.59 to a solid 4.4 at his Ohio State pro day workout. Big back who doesn’t go down easy and has great burst and speed to go the distance. Solid production, good stiff arm, and like Jamal Lewis gets better as the game goes on but also like Lewis he’s not a threat to turn the corner so his best work is between the tackles. An opportunity pick that should increase his carries later in the season as LaDalian’s career winds down.

17. New York Jets-Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia - 5-105/8, 217, 4.61 True that Moreno doesn’t have elite or even good speed but he’s a talent and Thomas Jones is 31 years old. The Jets got rid of Laveranues Coles but they reportedly have an interest in Torry Holt so I looked past the temptation of plugging in a WR here. Also Josh Freeman is not a viable franchise QB IMHO so I think the Jets would love to have Knowshon. Elusive, hits hole hard, good hands and runs solid routes so he should work his way in on passing downs. Doesn’t cough the ball up, leader.

18. *Trade* Bears to Broncos (for QB Jay Cutler) Denver selects- Brian Cushing, LB Southern California 6-27/8, 243, 4.74 Not one of the blue-chipper LBers fall to the Broncos but they land a solid prospect. Nice size, sheds blocks, smart, hard worker, and a willing special teamer so he’ll pay an immediate return on coverage units if nothing else. Still untapped upside but not as gifted as the blue chippers who went off the board in the top ten. The Broncos should trade this pick and a conditional pick next year to Cleveland for QB Brady Quinn but if Cushing is on deck they will roll the dice. (if you’re keeping track the Broncos had Jay Cutler and in this mock would get Brian Cushing in return, hardly an even swap especially if Cush doesn’t blow up)

19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers-Josh Freeman, QB, Kansas ST.- 6-53/4, 248, 4.97Joe Flacco redux? The Bucs are in DIRE straights at QB so if for some reason the Broncos (not very likely since Freeman is a terrible fit for McDaniel’s offense) or the Jets (possible but I don’t think Freeman grades out high on anyone’s list other than the Bucs) but Tampa’s new HC Raheem Morris was on the K-State coaching staff with Freeman and the Bucs have been very busy checking him out. Josh has a gun for an arm so he can make all of the throws but the problem is that he’s not very accurate when making those throws. He has great size, he’s coachable, solid work ethic, loads of potential, leader, etc… I don’t think anyone but the Bucs will bite and it could work out for them but I’m skeptical.

20 Detroit (from Dallas)-Michael Oher, OT, Mississippi- 6-6, 333, 5.19The Lions need help protecting the passer having given up 52 sacks last year so they land a four year starter from the SEC. He has the athletic ability to play the blind side but can play any position on the line so he doesn’t have to unseat Jeff Backus to gain a starting spot on Detroit’s line. Has a mean streak. After landing Stafford they need to keep him upright so the QB/OLT combo would be optimal for Detroit. If Oher develops quickly he could give Detroit the option of moving Backus inside.

I think that Grossi might be onto something in speculating that BQ 'could' be on Denver's radar with the 18th pick. I think that is not enough to get in exchange especially if Quinn blows up with the Donkeys so a more reasonable suggestion would be the Bronco's 18th pick in this draft with a conditional pick next year.

I would think a conditional pick, minimum a third rounder that could go up to a first round pick depending on how well Quinn does with Denver, would be reasonable.

Orton isn't the answer especially if Chicago came to that conclusion so he's not going to blow up in Denver. The Broncos have two first rounders next year so if they made a deal this year and ended up with a franchise QB to replace Cutler and had to surrender one of those picks then I'm sure they would gladly do so.

The sooner they get a replacement for Cutler the better. A late first round pick for Quinn is too cheap alone but a pot sweetener of a third next year that could go up to a first would work for both sides. The conditions for a first next year would cover both teams. BQ has loads of upside potential so if he blows up the Browns would be covered. If he were traded then he would overtake Orton and Simms to become a starter right away. Many have speculated that he would mesh well with McDaniel's coaching style and he already knows his offensive system since he ran it at ND. It really does make sense if a fair compensation could be worked out to satisfy both sides.

Ofcourse that deal would have to go down prior to the draft so we could put Sanchez under the scope. I think McDaniel's would prefer to keep his #12 pick AND also land his franchise QB. That might be a big enough PR coupe to get the Bronco fans squarely back on his side.

Denver is going to trade their 12th pick and a few more to get to the Browns 5th pick.

Note: I used the Trade value chart points for my trades and the GBNR, 4/6/09 player 177 listing for my draft choices in the next two messages. We try to keep this stuff realistic, even if it is speculation.

They will select Sanchez, QB, USC.

I agree with you Bob that they will take Cushings at 18.

Denver will provide the Browns their 48th pick, 114th and 149th, and be happy they got their future QB.

Now an argument can be made, if Sanchez is ready to start or he will need a year to be groomed while Orton starts this year.

This trade will only be made if Sanchez is on the board when the Browns have the fifth pick.

The Browns like Orakpo, but they are more interested in acquiring additional picks.

They have a good list of players they would like to take with the 12th selection if the players were on the board.

They would take Jeremy Maclin, WR, Rey Maualuga, ILB, USC and there are others. Again, the price of $30,000,000 or $30 million for a fifth round draft choice is pretty prohibitive.

Again, I did a little mock draft and with the use of these four choices I came up with the following players, just to show, what players were there.

I used the GBNR, April 6th top 177 player listing, so my Browns bias would not show through.

BE to the NYG - 29th, 91th and Steve Smith or another draft choice equal to Steve Smith. - Reasoning, Look at the Dallas / Detroit trade for Roy Williams - First and third plus, 20th pick in the first round

DA to Detroit - 65th and 82nd pick. Again, Mel Kiper and others say no trade value. DA actually looks pretty good to many other GMs and Head Coaches who do not have a quality starting QB.

Continued.

Last edited by ramllov on Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mangini and Kokinis are looking at this year's draft as their 2009 Super Bowl and they want to accumulate as many draft choices in the first three rounds as they can, mostly in the first and second round.

There is an active market for the 5th pick in this draft if Sanchez is still on the board.

BE has a few teams highly interested in him.

DA, he is open to discussion. Browns fans forget the 2007 season, but 1/3 to 1/2 the NFL teams wish they had a QB who could throw the deep passes this player can throw.

Doc, nice thread. Hope you enjoy the two posts.

Note: I did say extreme draft. The real draft results will be somewhere between these two listed outcomes.

Mangini and Kokinis are looking at this year's draft as their 2009 Super Bowl and they want to accumulate as many draft choices in the first three rounds as they can, mostly in the first and second round.

There is an active market for the 5th pick in this draft if Sanchez is still on the board.

BE has a few teams highly interested in him.

DA, he is open to discussion. Browns fans forget the 2007 season, but 1/3 to 1/2 the NFL teams wish they had a QB who could throw the deep passes this player can throw.

Doc, nice thread. Hope you enjoy the two posts.

Note: I did say extreme draft. The real draft results will be somewhere between these two listed outcomes.

The will be a fun draft for Browns fans to watch.

Enjoy your draft party. Living in Florida prevents me from attending.

I

ramm - They should have hird you as GM . This would be the best draft since Clay & Ozzie.

ramllov wrote:Denver is going to trade their 12th pick and a few more to get to the Browns 5th pick.

I dunno Ram.

The Donkeys have been anything but wise in their dealings up to this point.

This is what one of the GMs involved in talking to the Broncos about Cutler said:

"This should never have happened. This is bad for football. A great player talked his way off a team. If this trade doesn't work out for Denver, and Cutler plays great, which he should, Denver's going to look idiotic.''

I think Denver may try to grin and bear a season with Orton under center and that would be a disaster.

Here's what Bears general manager Jerry Angelo said about Orton after last season:"I think we have to have competition at that position. We have to get that position right. I know there's going to be a lot of talk about a No. 1 receiver. Guys, it starts with the quarterback. It's all about the quarterback. You don't win because of wide receivers. You don't win because of running backs. You win because of the quarterback. We've got to get the quarterback position stabilized."

Josh McDaniels isn't qualified but its not because he's dumb, he has to know Orton isn't the answer so I do believe the Broncos will try to trade up but I don't think they will offer their 12th pick in the first round Ram.

Why?

They are switching to the 3-4 and haven't got any D-Linemen.

Besides, if they do want to trade up, and I think they do, why target Cleveland? We would like an opportunity upgrade at QB but with BQ and DA and other glaring holes on our team I don't think we're a threat to take Sanchez so why would Denver or Washington target the Brown's pick where they would be foreced to pay a much higher signing bonus?

That scenario doesn't make sense. I think that their will be a bidding war between Denver and Washington and Denver will have to make a decision with, B.J., Everrette Brown, Maybin, still on deck and they simply won't offer as much as the Skins so Washington would win the Sanchez lottery.

That would leave Denver in an awful QB pickle and that is why BQ pops back up on the radar but the 18th pick isn't enough to get him, Grossi is high if he thinks that is fair and Lombardi is off his fricken' rocker if he thinks that is all Denver would have to pay.

That is why I think a 'reasonable' price is the 18th this year with a conditional third next year that could go all the way up to a first. If Quinn earned that compensation then both sides would be pleased.

ramllov wrote:Denver is going to trade their 12th pick and a few more to get to the Browns 5th pick.

I dunno Ram.

The Donkeys have been anything but wise in their dealings up to this point.

This is what one of the GMs involved in talking to the Broncos about Cutler said:

"This should never have happened. This is bad for football. A great player talked his way off a team. If this trade doesn't work out for Denver, and Cutler plays great, which he should, Denver's going to look idiotic.''

I think Denver may try to grin and bear a season with Orton under center and that would be a disaster.

Here's what Bears general manager Jerry Angelo said about Orton after last season:"I think we have to have competition at that position. We have to get that position right. I know there's going to be a lot of talk about a No. 1 receiver. Guys, it starts with the quarterback. It's all about the quarterback. You don't win because of wide receivers. You don't win because of running backs. You win because of the quarterback. We've got to get the quarterback position stabilized."

Josh McDaniels isn't qualified but its not because he's dumb, he has to know Orton isn't the answer so I do believe the Broncos will try to trade up but I don't think they will offer their 12th pick in the first round Ram.

Why?

They are switching to the 3-4 and haven't got any D-Linemen.

Besides, if they do want to trade up, and I think they do, why target Cleveland? We would like an opportunity upgrade at QB but with BQ and DA and other glaring holes on our team I don't think we're a threat to take Sanchez so why would Denver or Washington target the Brown's pick where they would be foreced to pay a much higher signing bonus?

That scenario doesn't make sense. I think that their will be a bidding war between Denver and Washington and Denver will have to make a decision with, B.J., Everrette Brown, Maybin, still on deck and they simply won't offer as much as the Skins so Washington would win the Sanchez lottery.

That would leave Denver in an awful QB pickle and that is why BQ pops back up on the radar but the 18th pick isn't enough to get him, Grossi is high if he thinks that is fair and Lombardi is off his fricken' rocker if he thinks that is all Denver would have to pay.

That is why I think a 'reasonable' price is the 18th this year with a conditional third next year that could go all the way up to a first. If Quinn earned that compensation then both sides would be pleased.

SD:

Quinn will not be traded if people fail to make the deal while Sanchez is available to us at #5.

We're key because at that point teams will have the option to make a deal with at least one of three posibilities at QB DA Quinn or Sanchez.

Mangy would like to trade out and if he does he'll keep both QB's on the roster and deal down , no way Denver makes a play on Quinn at that point when they can go to the orchid and pick their own fruit, and no way Mangy trades Quinn without a media darling his PR stash so to speak.

Denvers 12th and the bears #1 next year plus the Bears 3rd this year would be enough to move up to 12 and still have a pick in the first round this year.

Brady could be had for the cheaper price of the 18th pick and Chicagos third which gives Mangy his own number , and we go with Derek while Sanchez sits.

I've been waiting and finally Gosselin came out with his first mock this year. Gosselin is the most accurate mock prognosticator over time and that can be verified at the Huddle Report. They keep tabs of all mocks over time and Rick is tops in terms of accuracy and his list of the top players. Its very difficult to project who gets which players but he nails which players will go in the first round better than anyone.

In case you don't know how Rick does his mocks, he does three mocks. The first one he INTENTIONALLY throws out a few curveballs to throw off cheap rip off who would do nothing other than cut and paste his work and base their mocks off of his. So keep that in mind when you read the following.

Oh and I'm only posting his first thirteen picks, go to the link for the full mock.

06:29 PM CDT on Friday, April 10, 2009...Here's the first of three mock draft offerings from The Dallas Morning News this month. The second will come next Sunday, and the final mock on the actual day of the draft. The first mock is based on my draft board of the top 32 players, the second focuses more on team need and the third is how I see the draft playing out.

1. Detroit Lions:Matthew Stafford, QB, GeorgiaLions are hoping Stafford can be their next Bobby Layne

2. St. Louis Rams:Jason Smith, OT, BaylorHuge hole at left tackle with release of Orlando Pace

2. St. Louis Rams (2-14)Jason Smith, OT, Baylor: The OT spot is strong at the top with Smith, a former tight end who is supremely athletic and exactly what you want in a left tackle: someone you can count on to protect the blind side of your quarterback.

3. Kansas City Chiefs (2-14)Aaron Curry, OLB, Wake Forest: He's a complete OLB with great character and work ethic, which is why it was no surprise when he nailed his combine workout.

5. Cleveland Browns (4-12)Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech: The stress fracture in his left foot shouldn't affect his draft status. He's a big-time player who should have a Larry Fitzgerald-type career in the NFL.

6. Cincinnati Bengals (4-11-1)Andre Smith, OT, Alabama: Smith has to manage his weight in order to remain on the left side. If he doesn't, he's a mauler at right tackle who could really assist the running game and do the job at that spot in pass protection. Hopefully, he'll maximize his skills in the NFL by paying more attention to detail. If he doesn't, you're looking at a major bust.

7. Oakland Raiders (5-11)Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri: Maclin will have to adjust to an NFL offense, but I really like his big-play capability and the fact that he's much more explosive with the pads on than his 4.46-second 40-yard dash at the combine would lead you to believe.

8. Jacksonville Jaguars (5-11)Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas: I view Orakpo as a 4-3 end with the ability to also play on his feet in a 3-4 as an attacking outside linebacker. He is super-athletic and incredibly strong, but there is concern about his durability.

10. San Francisco 49ers (7-9)Aaron Maybin, DE, Penn State: Maybin is another combo-type who is explosive out of the blocks and relentless in his pursuit of the quarterback.

11. Buffalo Bills (7-9)Robert Ayers, DE, Tennessee: Ayers enjoyed a solid season in the SEC and then was one of the standouts during Senior Bowl week. He ran the 40 in 4.80 at the combine, though, which could give some teams pause.

12. Denver Broncos (8-8)Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU: Jackson would be ideal in a 3-4, thanks to his ability to shift inside in passing situations.

13. Washington Redskins (8-8)Mark Sanchez, QB, USC: Sanchez definitely is one of the top five to eight players available in this draft, and getting him here would be a bit of a steal, because had he returned to USC for his senior season, he likely would have been the No. 1 overall pick.

Right now I'll stick with my projection of the top twenty. One name I keep seeing is Robert Ayers whom Kiper has in his mock at 11 and whom Gosselin has in his mock at 15. That means he most likely will go off the board in the first twenty picks so I'll try to update my projection if I get around to doing some research on Ayers and try to figure out where he's likely to go.

And once again, this is Gosselin's FIRT mock where he INTENTIONALLY throws out a few false picks so no one blindly copies him.

The Denver papers have picked up on the logic of the Broncos trading up for one of three different players. I never thought of the Broncos moving up till I saw the KFFL mock but others are catching on to how much sense this makes.

Denver could have three different players in their sites if they make a move up the draft board.

If you have your sights set on 3 guys, why would you move up 4 spots to grab the first one of the three? Why wouldn't you just wait and only have to move up one spot to get the third one? Pay less, get equal.

If you have your sights set on 3 guys, why would you move up 4 spots to grab the first one of the three? Why wouldn't you just wait and only have to move up one spot to get the third one? Pay less, get equal.

Its cheaper to pay a late third round pick to snag one guy that you really want rather than go the cheap route and hope the third choice falls to you if you wait.

I believe the Broncos really want one of two guys with that first pick, on offense QB Mark Sanchez and on defense NT B.J. Raji but that they would be happy with Orakpo.

Mike Klis covers the team and he lists those exact same three players in how he sees a potential deal by Denver to move up to ensure picking one guy that they really want.

Mike KlisThe Denver Post

... There is a potential trade so logical, it all but leaps off the draft value chart.

Providing the Jacksonville Jaguars are willing partners, the Broncos could easily leap from their No. 12 overall draft pick to No. 8.

... The No. 8 spot would be significant to the Broncos if their preference is defensive tackle B.J. Raji, quarterback Mark Sanchez or Texas defensive end/outside linebacker Brian Orakpo.

... McDaniels and Xanders would never state their preference with their No. 12 pick. But it's no secret they may have to move up to get him.

I don't think that any of those three guys will be there when the Broncos pick so it does make lots of sense to suggest a move up especially if I'm the Broncos and am trying from a self inflicted PR nightmare.

You didn't ask but I've got Orakpo much higher than any other OLB/DE hybrid in this draft and had him there looooooong before the Combine or before others started hopping on the bandwagon. Just glance at the raw physical dimensions of the top listed OLB/DE hybrids.

Aaron Maybin, DE, Penn State 6-33/4, 249, 4.88, BMI 30.5Maybin is the slowest of the bunch and is not known for playing the run tough. He's also 14 lighter than Orakpo.

Everette Brown, DE, Florida State 6-11/2, 256, 4.73, BMI 33.3Shortest of the bunch but a nice low center of gravity. Nearly identical speed to Rak and nearly identical Body Mass Index. Its preferable that OLBs and 3-4 DEs have a bit more height to deflect balls in coverage or when rushing the passer and to obscure passing lanes. Also Scott Wright has him dropping into the twenties in his latest mock so he may have heard something negative on him.

Brian Cushing, OLB, USC 6-27/8, 243, 4.74, BMI 30.5Not only is Cush a tic slower and shorter than Orakpo but he's a full 20 pounds lighter. That is significant when trying to stack and shed NFL sized blockers.

Clay Mathews III OLB, USC 6-31/8, 240, 4.67, BMI 29.9Speed but over twenty pounds lighter and rumors of roids along with Cush. I like him but physics of having a bigger and stronger prospect isn't negotiable.

Robert Ayers DE/OLB(?) TEN 6-31/8, 272, 4.80 BMI 33.8 I've seen him listed in many mocks and didn't know what to make of him but Wright has him going to the Broncos as a 3-4 OLB/DE hybrid and I'm skeptical of that projection. Ayers had a big Senior Bowl which seemed to put him on many teams radar and he hails from the SEC but he's slow and only had three sacks last year and only four the year before (his career high) so this looks like a major reach to say he'd be a fit for a 3-4 OLB/DE hybrid.

Denver won't have a shot at any of the three guys Klis lists IMHO so it makes sense that they move up a few notches especially if they can get their, one/two/three selections of this draft and only pay a late third round pick. They're going to catch hell if the 18th pick that they got for Cutler doesn't explode out of the gates to provide impact or if Orton struggles. From my projection (I have them taking Cushing with that pick) I don't think they're going to get that sort of impact unless they land one of the RBs. They like Morenno from what I've heard so its possible but they are in dire need of an NT so I think they need to move ahead of the Pack who own the 9th pick.

I also think the Skins will make an effort to move up for Sanchez.

I felt that BQ would be a perfect fit for McDaniel's offense and felt the 18th pick this year plus a conditional pick next year would be a fair trade but if the 49ers are truly interested for the 10th pick then screw Denver's 18th pick and a conditional pick next year. I would be interested in what the Niner's were willing to offer.

2006 - James Laurinaitis, Ohio St - most think he stinksHasn't played a down in the NFL yet and it he's drafted he's not being pimped for top ten. NFL draft rankings PLUS Nagurski is a predictor of NFL success.

2005 - Elvis Dumervil, Louisville - all righty thenFourth round draft pick who is a sackmaster and is being moved to OLB by McDaniels.

2004 - Derrick Johnson, Texas - up and downNot stellar but a starter from day-one and solid if unspectacular.

2003 - Derrick Strait, Oklahoma - Who?First round draft choice? No.

2002 - Terrell Suggs, Arizona State - Best of the bunchDon't know if I agree that he was the best of the buch because their are two others who I feel are better but a first round, top ten pick and a stud.

2001 - Roy Williams, Oklahoma - releasesd and terribleYou don't know what you are talking about Pup if you state that Roy Williams was terrible.

5× Pro Bowl selections (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007) All-Pro selection (2003) Add that the NFL make up a rule to sto him from hurting people.

1994 - Warren Sapp, Miami (Fla.) - beastAgreed and will go down as one of the best to ever play three-technique DT.

1993 - Rob Waldrop, Arizona - ummmm.Not a first round pick.

There is your list. Not exactly a predictor of Canton.

8 Nagurski Award winners were first round selections. One was a rook last year and we agree the jury is still out on him leaving seven that can be reasonably evaluated.

2004 - Derrick Johnson, Texas -Not a top ten selection but still the 15th pick in the first round

2003 - Terrell Suggs, Arizona State -10th pick of the first round

2002 - Roy Williams, Oklahoma -8th pick of the first round

2001 - Dan Morgan, Miami -Close but not a top ten selection, 11th pick of the first round and he even made one Pro Bowl in 2004

1999 - Champ Bailey, Georgia -7th pick of the first round

1998 - Charles Woodson, Michegan - 4th pick of the first round

1995 - Warren Sapp, Miami -12th pick of the first round and should have gone higher but rumors of pot caused a slight dip

Seven first round Nagurski Award winners, all but one has made at least one Pro Bowl and if you zero in on the top ten picks who were Nag Award winners you find four taken in the top ten and all four went onto have multiple Pro Bowl seasons in the NFL.

No matter how you slice it, Nagurski Award winners who were deemed first round material have an incredible batting average.

I'm sick of seeing these threads about the damn broncos and them trying to get Quinn.

Why don't we have more threads about Orakpo or Crabtree or whoever the hell we're getting at No. 5.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Bob Fergus wrote:Did someone appoint you as board king where you deem which topics are worth reading

Why yes, yes they did.

Go start another Browns suck and are losers thread.

Ouch, point to me where I started such a thread? Heck, I'm probably in the minority here that still have the Browns as my Numero Uno favorite team of the trinity at the moment.

This is a Browns forum

Not a GD Broncos forum

which has been every other thread you've started in this has been about.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

2006 - James Laurinaitis, Ohio St - most think he stinksHasn't played a down in the NFL yet and it he's drafted he's not being pimped for top ten. NFL draft rankings PLUS Nagurski is a predictor of NFL success.

2005 - Elvis Dumervil, Louisville - all righty thenFourth round draft pick who is a sackmaster and is being moved to OLB by McDaniels.

2004 - Derrick Johnson, Texas - up and downNot stellar but a starter from day-one and solid if unspectacular.

2003 - Derrick Strait, Oklahoma - Who?First round draft choice? No.

2002 - Terrell Suggs, Arizona State - Best of the bunchDon't know if I agree that he was the best of the buch because their are two others who I feel are better but a first round, top ten pick and a stud.

2001 - Roy Williams, Oklahoma - releasesd and terribleYou don't know what you are talking about Pup if you state that Roy Williams was terrible.

5× Pro Bowl selections (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007) All-Pro selection (2003) Add that the NFL make up a rule to sto him from hurting people.

1994 - Warren Sapp, Miami (Fla.) - beastAgreed and will go down as one of the best to ever play three-technique DT.

1993 - Rob Waldrop, Arizona - ummmm.Not a first round pick.

There is your list. Not exactly a predictor of Canton.

8 Nagurski Award winners were first round selections. One was a rook last year and we agree the jury is still out on him leaving seven that can be reasonably evaluated.

2004 - Derrick Johnson, Texas -Not a top ten selection but still the 15th pick in the first round

2003 - Terrell Suggs, Arizona State -10th pick of the first round

2002 - Roy Williams, Oklahoma -8th pick of the first round

2001 - Dan Morgan, Miami -Close but not a top ten selection, 11th pick of the first round and he even made one Pro Bowl in 2004

1999 - Champ Bailey, Georgia -7th pick of the first round

1998 - Charles Woodson, Michegan - 4th pick of the first round

1995 - Warren Sapp, Miami -12th pick of the first round and should have gone higher but rumors of pot caused a slight dip

Seven first round Nagurski Award winners, all but one has made at least one Pro Bowl and if you zero in on the top ten picks who were Nag Award winners you find four taken in the top ten and all four went onto have multiple Pro Bowl seasons in the NFL.

No matter how you slice it, Nagurski Award winners who were deemed first round material have an incredible batting average.

Well, adding the first round piece is different from take #1.

That is a lot different than winning the award makes you good.

How many of those cats had to switch positions to make it?

And Roy Williams is a stiff. Pro Bowl recognition in 2003, then for 4 more years based on rep. Couldn't cover JB.

You can give Brian Orakpo all of the awards you want. The guy scares the shit out of me. There will be several options at that spot, ones I consider safer. Shoot me.

2006 - James Laurinaitis, Ohio St - most think he stinksHasn't played a down in the NFL yet and it he's drafted he's not being pimped for top ten. NFL draft rankings PLUS Nagurski is a predictor of NFL success.

2005 - Elvis Dumervil, Louisville - all righty thenFourth round draft pick who is a sackmaster and is being moved to OLB by McDaniels.

2004 - Derrick Johnson, Texas - up and downNot stellar but a starter from day-one and solid if unspectacular.

2003 - Derrick Strait, Oklahoma - Who?First round draft choice? No.

2002 - Terrell Suggs, Arizona State - Best of the bunchDon't know if I agree that he was the best of the buch because their are two others who I feel are better but a first round, top ten pick and a stud.

2001 - Roy Williams, Oklahoma - releasesd and terribleYou don't know what you are talking about Pup if you state that Roy Williams was terrible.

5× Pro Bowl selections (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007) All-Pro selection (2003) Add that the NFL make up a rule to sto him from hurting people.

1994 - Warren Sapp, Miami (Fla.) - beastAgreed and will go down as one of the best to ever play three-technique DT.

1993 - Rob Waldrop, Arizona - ummmm.Not a first round pick.

There is your list. Not exactly a predictor of Canton.

8 Nagurski Award winners were first round selections. One was a rook last year and we agree the jury is still out on him leaving seven that can be reasonably evaluated.

2004 - Derrick Johnson, Texas -Not a top ten selection but still the 15th pick in the first round

2003 - Terrell Suggs, Arizona State -10th pick of the first round

2002 - Roy Williams, Oklahoma -8th pick of the first round

2001 - Dan Morgan, Miami -Close but not a top ten selection, 11th pick of the first round and he even made one Pro Bowl in 2004

1999 - Champ Bailey, Georgia -7th pick of the first round

1998 - Charles Woodson, Michegan - 4th pick of the first round

1995 - Warren Sapp, Miami -12th pick of the first round and should have gone higher but rumors of pot caused a slight dip

Seven first round Nagurski Award winners, all but one has made at least one Pro Bowl and if you zero in on the top ten picks who were Nag Award winners you find four taken in the top ten and all four went onto have multiple Pro Bowl seasons in the NFL.

No matter how you slice it, Nagurski Award winners who were deemed first round material have an incredible batting average.

Well, adding the first round piece is different from take #1.

Yeah and so does adding the coaches who earned that honor. I don't pay much attention to guys when the topic of conversation is and has been Orakpo and Rak didn't just take that honor he took home many others but the Nag + High First Round Draft Pick = the highest hit rate of any combination of ranking + award that I've seen and I have studied this for decades Pup. I wasn't throwing darts when I saw our team need VS. best player availabe in the draft to fill that need weeks before the NFL season ended.

That is a lot different than winning the award makes you good.

Please, have you seen me make a simple take like that?

How many of those cats had to switch positions to make it?

That would be T-Suggs, the player you claimed was the best and who made the exact same witch that Rak would make if we took him.

Kokonis was just asked about him today.

On Texas LB Brian Orakpo: " His forte is getting to the passer, but you have seen him (drop into coverage)."

And Roy Williams is a stiff. Pro Bowl recognition in 2003, then for 4 more years based on rep. Couldn't cover JB.

He made five straight Pro Bowls and was an ALL-PRO meaning he was the best safety in the league that year. Far from a stiff. You're basing evaluation on him on his last years in the league. Butkis got his ass waxed the last year he was in the league but he wasn't a stiff either.

You can give Brian Orakpo all of the awards you want. The guy scares the shit out of me. There will be several options at that spot, ones I consider safer. Shoot me.

True story.

A marine who served on Guadalcanal relayed a story from one of his patrols in the jungle. His squad came across a Japanese machine gun nest hidden in a pill box. A fire fight ensued and one of the marines tossed a hand grenade into the pill box. The squad heard agonizing screaming but he spoke in perfect English and said.

"Shoot me!!!"

The sharpshooter in his squad stood up, raised his weapon and adjusted his sites as he smiled and said.