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Originally posted by Xirik

Since its the second largest Sub based MMO probably a very long time. Meridian is still alive so is EQ. I really don't understand how people think Swtor is going to die. They aren't bleeding out subs anymore and are stable around 500k-750k subs. They found a base that likes this game.

just because its not the game you wanted it to be doesn't mean it should die. Thats a VERY childlike mindset.

Meridian and EQ didn't have insanely expensive dev and licensing costs to deal with. I was involved with licensing the Star Wars IP back in the late 90's for a product line, and let me tell you... Lucas doesn't come cheap.

No it is not. Both Swtor and STO are not even worth playing, not even talking about sub.

That is a matter of opinion of any MMO, but STO is more worthy to be called a MMO than SWTOR is, which is like a single player game (especially the space game), and you do not sub to single player games.

space game is a minigame inside of SWTOR imo. SWTOR has all other aspects of MMo, unless you choose to play it solo. But that is your choice.

Edit: People who say SWTOR is a single player game, overlook it's MMO aspect. This is a great game to group, you just have to do it.

Please don't even try with the tube shooter.

It's a full finger in the face for all space sim fans and not even a good shooter.

Worse is they have a full team working on the new heroics missions for months, wasting $$$ in a... minigame?

Its truly amazing the amount of time and energy some put into bashing this game. Some people enjoy the space missions, a lot of peiple enjoy this game. I am lost at why some feel the are entitled to go on and on over a year now (thats how long some have been at this) and try and bash a game they dont like. Thats great you dont enjoy it but a hell of a lot of people do enjoy it. Move on already your not going to close the game no matter how much time and energy you put into it.

BTW I'm still subbed.

Then plz come back when there's a decent space shooter. Note even Rogue Squadron from the 90's is better than the lame point and click shooter they delivered.

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Originally posted by JonokuPlaying SWTOR F2P version is almost unplayable even casually playing it......

This is maybe truth but look at that this way: You pay 15$, you get unlimited access for 1 month, cartel points and prefered status. IMHO that is a lot of solid game content for that price. Read GW 2 forums. The biggest argument for GW2 was - "I don't play it annymore but it was worth 60$" (i actually never get that point because you get free month with every sub MMO too and most people played GW2 less than that).

At the end you get to try the game for free and if you don't like it don't play it. If you like it you'll get game without box price.

$60 = GW2 or four months sub of TOR.

The latter is a much better deal.

$60 = GW2 or four months sub of TOR or infinite play time of STO and $60 still in the bank

The latter is a much better deal

I tried STO, as I love the movies, but could not stand if for more than 5 minutes LOL. Sorry, no more reading quests for me and character manimation was blah. I guess I am spoiled. Uninstalled.

STO is probably the least polished MMO I've ever played. The animations and combat were clunky and goofy. I was really disappointed when I tried it F2P. I was hoping to get months of fun out of it.

Originally posted by JonokuPlaying SWTOR F2P version is almost unplayable even casually playing it......

This is maybe truth but look at that this way: You pay 15$, you get unlimited access for 1 month, cartel points and prefered status. IMHO that is a lot of solid game content for that price. Read GW 2 forums. The biggest argument for GW2 was - "I don't play it annymore but it was worth 60$" (i actually never get that point because you get free month with every sub MMO too and most people played GW2 less than that).

At the end you get to try the game for free and if you don't like it don't play it. If you like it you'll get game without box price.

$60 = GW2 or four months sub of TOR.

The latter is a much better deal.

$60 = GW2 or four months sub of TOR or infinite play time of STO and $60 still in the bank

The latter is a much better deal

I tried STO, as I love the movies, but could not stand if for more than 5 minutes LOL. Sorry, no more reading quests for me and character manimation was blah. I guess I am spoiled. Uninstalled.

STO is probably the least polished MMO I've ever played. The animations and combat were clunky and goofy. I was really disappointed when I tried it F2P. I was hoping to get months of fun out of it.

Yep, STO is not very polished at all, but that does not mean it is not fun and enjoyable. It also has several features in game that you can play with.

After seeing the cut sences from SWTOR then see the cut scenes in STO make me cringe, but once you have done the stories in SWTOR, there is not much left to do, but once you have done the stories in STO, there is still more to do.

Also watching TNG and TOS recently both have clunky and goofy set pieces (I did not think TNG was that bad but was), and that is what makes Trek great! Carries over to the game quite well.

Since its released they have enabled you to visit the bridge, then later you could visit the entire ship, they have added Duty Officer on top of Bridge Officers, then later the Duty Officers became interactible chars on your ship, they also added the foundry system where you can create your own missions etc. Plus the regualar content updates, and each weekend there is something, and they do loads of limited time events. Cryptic has done loads for STO unlike EA/Bioware has for SWTOR

They do have the lock box things, but all it takes is a few daily fun missions within 30 mins to grind up your ZEN points. In the end you do not have to pay any real money, even on a fully free account.

I would rather spend 30 mins in STO, than 30 mins doing over time in my job to get more money to buy more ZEN.

I have not even maxed a character yet, as sometimes I just play for those 30 mins per character, doing missions to get more ZEN. Then buy more char slots to maximise the daily missions for more ZEN. Considering there is no monthly fee I am taking my time with it, and playing slowly

There is more to keep you playing STO than SWTOR. SWTOR is just short term eye candy. It needs more sandboxy features, which STO has.

No it is not. Both Swtor and STO are not even worth playing, not even talking about sub.

That is a matter of opinion of any MMO, but STO is more worthy to be called a MMO than SWTOR is, which is like a single player game (especially the space game), and you do not sub to single player games.

space game is a minigame inside of SWTOR imo. SWTOR has all other aspects of MMo, unless you choose to play it solo. But that is your choice.

Edit: People who say SWTOR is a single player game, overlook it's MMO aspect. This is a great game to group, you just have to do it.

It lacks almost everything that a MMO should contain IMO.

Interdependency

Social aspect

Open world

Non combat professions ( read; entertainers etc )

Open dungeons/spawns ( when i see 20 players walking into a dungeon, I expect to see the same players when I enter the same dungeon myself )

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SWTOR was great when you 1st login and do your first steps and explore planets.This quickly changed when you realise how death each world realy is, even filled with players around you the whole AI are boring and adds little fun to play with.

The free to play version of SWTOR is making a big handicap on players and once they see how bad it realy is most people will /quit

Sure some will buy a sub, but many more will just quit after they see how bad SWTOR realy is.

Hate me for saying this i dont realy care, this game should have rocked for years on end with fantastic gameplay and replay value.Instead they created one of the worste mmo's (in my humble opinion) in the last decade.Its even worse then Warhammer who was still in alpha stage when it was released.

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It's a long term investment at this point. I don't see them just shutting down this game.

It reminds me of a friends company where he was reather high in hierarchy, but not highest.

They invested 80-100m Euros and had 2 year ROI plan.

Due to inexplainable bad managment decisions it suddenly got prolonged first to 5 years, and current status is vegetative state, no timeframe for ROI, and they are just looking for a way out and how to minimise the losses (they suck at that too) and my friend just laughs at how bad managment was (is) and at bad decisions (that somehow arent ending).

Of course, they have horde of mouth foaming investors jumping on their heads, that lost a lot of money, and will 99% never get it back.

Thats kinda the state of SWTOR.

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

All they have to do is lay off most people and stop developing. They aren't in the type of maintenance mode games like LOTRO and Warhammer are.

If LOTRO is in maintenance mode that SWTOR is in maintenance mode since launch.

Games in maintenance mode dont release full fledged expansions every year and content updates in meantime.

As someone said. RoR has more content that SWTOR had in 1+years. And, by all means, that will not change for a year and then LOTRO will have new expansion (and updates in meantime).

Originally posted by Mothanos

SWTOR was great when you 1st login and do your first steps and explore planets. This quickly changed when you realise how death each world realy is, even filled with players around you the whole AI are boring and adds little fun to play with.

The free to play version of SWTOR is making a big handicap on players and once they see how bad it realy is most people will /quit

Sure some will buy a sub, but many more will just quit after they see how bad SWTOR realy is.

Hate me for saying this i dont realy care, this game should have rocked for years on end with fantastic gameplay and replay value. Instead they created one of the worste mmo's (in my humble opinion) in the last decade. Its even worse then Warhammer who was still in alpha stage when it was released.

It will be launch all over.

Lot of people, yadda yadda yadda, F2P (but this time around shut-down is lurking around the corner).

Origin worlds are great. But its all downwards from there and that culminates with endgame which is at the bottom of the deepest pit you can imagine.

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Originally posted by Mothanos

SWTOR was great when you 1st login and do your first steps and explore planets. This quickly changed when you realise how death each world realy is, even filled with players around you the whole AI are boring and adds little fun to play with.

The free to play version of SWTOR is making a big handicap on players and once they see how bad it realy is most people will /quit

Sure some will buy a sub, but many more will just quit after they see how bad SWTOR realy is.

Hate me for saying this i dont realy care, this game should have rocked for years on end with fantastic gameplay and replay value. Instead they created one of the worste mmo's (in my humble opinion) in the last decade. Its even worse then Warhammer who was still in alpha stage when it was released.

Is your point of view, There is a lot of people who actually love the game and have the patient to see how it will get better in the next months.

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Originally posted by hikaru77

Originally posted by Mothanos

SWTOR was great when you 1st login and do your first steps and explore planets. This quickly changed when you realise how death each world realy is, even filled with players around you the whole AI are boring and adds little fun to play with.

The free to play version of SWTOR is making a big handicap on players and once they see how bad it realy is most people will /quit

Sure some will buy a sub, but many more will just quit after they see how bad SWTOR realy is.

Hate me for saying this i dont realy care, this game should have rocked for years on end with fantastic gameplay and replay value. Instead they created one of the worste mmo's (in my humble opinion) in the last decade. Its even worse then Warhammer who was still in alpha stage when it was released.

Is your point of view, There is a lot of people who actually love the game and have the patient to see how it will get better in the next months.

My concern with those words is that players have been saying SWTOR will get better in the coming months since the game launched. The graphics engine continues to be hopelessly FUBAR'ed.

Illum for example was a major issue that would be improved upon "in the coming months", which would put it being better sometime last spring. EA's response was to make the game better by removing open world PVP from the equation. Better? hmm .. definitely less interesting, regardless how someone sees the removal of Illum's mass PVP.

The game suffers from severe technical incompetence, with no clear remedy in motion. If more instanced zones is your definition of the game being better, then power to you. I would rather it run smoothly (you know like a futuristic game!) with Star Wars elements .. a world full of interactivity, diversity, and possibilities !! ... and /gulp, stuff other than what WoW does please.

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I was and still am a supporter of that game. To me, if offered the near perfect themepark design at the time.

Yet, people all over these boards in particular were calling it a boring WoW clone, lackluster, boring combat mechanics, soulless, etc (basically the exact same arguments people are using here).

It's funny how that tune has changed.

I'll go on record and say it now. SWTOR, for me, offers the best themepark experience out there right now, It uses the standard themepark model (some can't get past this), adds a great story, modern graphics, top production values and is set in the Star Wars universe.

I never expected it to be anything other than a story-driven themepark MMO.

If it lasts as long as LOTRO does (and I think it will), it will be funny to revisit this thread.

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Considering EA, maybe just a few years. Not that its making profits at all, they would do it just cause its not making rediculous amounts of cash they wanted to milk out of the customer... which is sad.

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Originally posted by mnwild1998Vanguard still here, TSW still here, Tera still here, Age of Conan still here, WAR still here, STO still here, D&D still here LOTRO Still here, and SWTOR has a larger population right now than all of those games combined (excluding LOTRO). So you haters keep putting in all your time and energy because TOR is not going anywhere. Move on already!

You listed 2 games that released months ago.

You listed 3 games in maintenance mode.

You listed 3 games with actual FTP sysytems.

Not going anywhere and having your game development not go anywhere are two different things. Move on already.

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Originally posted by mnwild1998Vanguard still here, TSW still here, Tera still here, Age of Conan still here, WAR still here, STO still here, D&D still here LOTRO Still here, and SWTOR has a larger population right now than all of those games combined (excluding LOTRO). So you haters keep putting in all your time and energy because TOR is not going anywhere. Move on already!

The President of EA Labels Frank Gibeau said the Star Wars game would still break even so long as it maintained 500,000 subscribers, but admitted that its current performance was "not good enough".

If SWTOR can get 500K subs (which includes what people spend in the cash shop) then it will most certainly survive. SWTOR is unique and cost loads to make, and costs loads to run, more so than any other MMO, so who knows how long it will last, but EA/Bioware are certainly not doing or saying much to encourage confidence in its survival.

Also most of those games (TSW, Tera, LOTRO, STO for definate) you mention are doing more to add content, and as SWTOR is so new it should be swamped with way way more new content than any of those.

If I was to say WOW or Rift or TSW will be shut down in the next year or two, or even Vanguard, then that would be hateful, as none are showing any signs of shutting down. However SWTOR has plenty of signs suggesting it might, and those signs are coming from EA/Bioware, and letting the game go stale, plus what they keep saying.

I bet even you will not worry if it shuts down next year, as that is plenty of time to get 500% out of the game.

Other MMOs evolve and expand so there is always something new to do, and even when COH and SWG shut down I still did not get to do everything I wanted to do that SWG offered.

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I was and still am a supporter of that game. To me, if offered the near perfect themepark design at the time.

Yet, people all over these boards in particular were calling it a boring WoW clone, lackluster, boring combat mechanics, soulless, etc (basically the exact same arguments people are using here).

It's funny how that tune has changed.

I'll go on record and say it now. SWTOR, for me, offers the best themepark experience out there right now, It uses the standard themepark model (some can't get past this), adds a great story, modern graphics, top production values and is set in the Star Wars universe.

I never expected it to be anything other than a story-driven themepark MMO.

If it lasts as long as LOTRO does (and I think it will), it will be funny to revisit this thread.

The difference with LOTRO is that they updated the game with extra content, and added in player housing, skirmishes to recently mounted combat.

They have also released many FULL expansions

EA/Bioware have done virtually NOTHING to SWTOR. SWTOR has been left to go stale, LOTRO was not.

If they had added in more stuff or coming soon, like story creator system, Beast Master / Pet companions, multiplayer open space, instanced housing etc then I would get committed to SWTOR, but I am not going involved with a game that is showing no improvements and is going stale, and not even the all the content that they said they had with the equivalent of KOTOR 3-9 and beyond is any where in sight.

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Originally posted by DevvholicHow long do you expect this game to last for? Does it have a bright future or will it die in the next year?

What scares me is as a subscriber still this game didn't seem to gain a population boost from the free to play launch.

I'm not the type of gamer to sit there and try to scan the servers for real time population figures and such but I must say this game seems empty post f2p when compared to what I saw happen when lotro went free to play and I feel like I saw bigger population spikes from patches than I saw from the f2p launch.