​The Salisbury Poisonings - What is Putin Capable Of?

It’s past time for the Trump administration to levy the sanctions on Russia that Congress passed. If an excuse to take belated action is needed, the poisoning with a rare and deadly nerve agent created by Soviet intel and military assets 40 years ago of ex Russian agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter in the English town of Salisbury, and Putin’s thuggish and clownish dismissal of Russian involvement, both provide a perfect excuse. Yes, the administration has launched a series of sanctions this Thursday, in what appears to be a response to Salisbury. But more may very well be needed, and it must be clear to Putin that America and it’s allies are willing to do more.

Putin is clearly signaling to all other Russian spies and agents as well as any others who work with his regime that no one is beyond the lethal reach of Russian intelligence. And this is yet another case of a disturbing new development in Russian tactical methods within the international intel community.

Uh no, it isn't. This is the continuation of Soviet KGB tactics - poisoned umbrella's, evil Bulgarian secret police, disappearances and sundry assassinations etc. - that Putin was trained in as he rose through the ranks of Russia's intelligence services a generation or two ago.

What has changed is the context. When Soviet spies poisoned and framed and blackmailed, the intel community on both sides of the Atlantic were actually fairly secretive about what they did and the Cold War was just that: an enduring conflict between two systems of politics and economics with the stated goal of defeating each other. It was fought through proxy wars, propaganda mixed with disinformation, and intelligence assets, and fought around the globe. Everyone knew there was a conflict going on. We were at war. They were the enemy. Spies got killed. Sometimes with nerve agents.

What we have with the Salisbury poisonings, however, is something closer to Mafia crime wars, despite the use of KGB-style tactics. Putin's authoritarianism is a criminal enterprise, something most authoritarian regimes end up being. You are loyal to Don Putin or you risk death. Because Putin is not in the least interested in resurrecting the Soviet economy. He's perfectly willing to siphon off his billions from Russia's oil & gas profits as he ensures Europe depends on Russian gas to not freeze and to bake their Strudel and cook their Pasta. What he seems to want is Soviet power and influence, with nods and winks towards their supposedly glorious past, with it's horrendous health care system and shoddy factories and collectivized agriculture, all without actually having to return to that past.

So we have a criminal enterprise that uses Soviet intel methods, which is sort of how one can describe the Russian mafia that began appearing in America (and elsewhere) in the 90's. Russia is a nuclear-armed kleptocracy run by a thug who wants the same power and influence that say a Leonid Brezhnev had.

If President Trump's administration is willing to step up and clearly support the UK's Prime Minister May, and to levy sanctions against Russia, this will be a good step.

Will the sanctions work? Europe and Russia are increasingly linked and while the unified chorus of denouncements over the Salisbury poisonings is encouraging, one wonders what hard and clear measures will be taken. That depends on whether Putin is a coward and bully and unwilling to take on a major power or if he truly is delusionally obsessed with regaining whatever power the Soviet Union once had. It was mostly the power of a nuclear threat, something Putin has resuscitated with Russia's expanded nuclear arsenal and with his new cruise missile that apparently can do wonders according to the Russian President.

What is Putin capable of? The evidence so far is disturbing and planning sanctions against Russia in 2018 is a little like putting tariffs on German steel in the mid-1930's. That's a bit of an extreme analogy but one we have to keep in mind. Because we might not want to find out what Putin is capable of unless we are ready to respond in kind.

Or it could be a response to Stormy, Mueller’s subpeona, Don Jr’s divorce, a bad cheeseburger, Melania “liking” something on twitter, or something someone said on the morning briefing from Fux news. If it’s a response to the terrorist attack in Salibury, then they’d better say so for it to be so.

Putain will be re-elected on Sunday and continue with the looting and corruption. He is in an undeclared war with the west and all western institutions. The only thing he understands about economics is that he wants more for himself.

I’m having a hard time believing what I hear. We were told Putin interfered in our election, that Trump and Putin were sitting in a tree P l a n i n g. When it’s all said and done it was 3 human beings and their corporations who get indicted! Putin wasn’t named at all! All that hype for months about Putin and he was no where to be found.

So before I go grabbing my pitchfork I’m waiting for some facts pertaining to this case.

I also find it hard to believe Putin would be dumb enough use such a high profile weapon. It’s like, “Look at me! I killed this guy!”. Why would he do that? Is he being framed in the media? Perhaps this is a mafia killing and it is unrelated to the Russian government. How would any of us know?

Snowden’s leaked papers mentioned software that can leave footprints to frame others, make it look like someone else. How do we know? You’re all sure it’s Putin sticking needles into his political enemies. All of your discussions are of what others are doing to retaliate. You’re already convinced just like you were convinced Putin and Trump conspired to rig the election.

I’m really sick of people acting on assumptions. I’m tired of the discussion revolving around preconceived notions. Do you realize how that limits any kind of fact finding?

Based on what I’ve seen and heard in the media lately I’m not willing to believe anything at the spur of the moment. I was the only person who was willing to give the deputy’s behavior the benefit of the doubt. Based on what I’ve heard on tape between him and the dispatcher, I’m convinced now that they were following established procedure. It was the wrong procedure, based on changes after Columbine, but they were following procedure none the less. That doesn’t make him a coward. We should have focused on the facts, not the assumptions at the time.

Always ready to defend the oligarchist, the dictator, how reasonable of you Weary. Obama was guilty of being born in Kenya but Putin wouldn’t use nerve gas again on his own people. Obama was in cahoots with Bill Ayers because …Chicago. but Putin and Trump didn’t plan for the election.Perhaps it is a Mafia killing using nerve gas! The Mafia killing a former Russian agent! But Putin, innocent until proven guilty.

Weary your mama must be proud of your ability to nit pick what Obama has said and twist it into nonsense. Obama also said that was a joke, kinda like your comment. But still sticking up for the oligarchist I see. Even giving the Russian ambassador to Britain his 15 minutes of fame.

Weary you are the poster boy for my various comments concerning “The people of Germany in the late ‘20’s and early 30’s.” Thank you for all your help.

Before, “Senior US intelligence officials said they had been watching the pattern of suspected assassinations across the Atlantic with mounting alarm, concerned that it could spread to American shores”

All you can do is attack me personally? Why don’t you address the issue I brought up? Why do you have to get personal? Don’t waste our time contradicting me on that, j2t2, just address my issue.

Everyone is jumping to conclusions and starting the discussion based on that assumption. What ever happened to proving your assumptions before traipsing off into punishment mode.

You guys make it too easy for people who lie to you. They feed you a position and you latch on. Didn’t any one of you ask yourselves, what proof is there? You guys are working off of, “Well it’s a Russian chemical, it must be Putin killing his enemies again. He’s KGB, ya know!”.

This whole thing is pure speculation! And we’re supposed to confront one of the largest nuclear countries in the world with speculation?

This whole ordeal seems to be geared toward U.S. Consumption. Blame Russia because they’re the bad guys again. Putin’s laughing at our reporters during interviews, but the American public are falling for it hook, line, and sinker.

Why don’t you address the issue I brought up? Why do you have to get personal? Don’t waste our time contradicting me on that, j2t2, just address my issue.

Your issue Weary is “what happened to innocent until proven guilty” which is a red herring in this case. Hence defending the oligarchic comment that you considered a personal attack. I doubt the Putin ever makes it to court in Great Britain so I doubt guilt will be proved.

You were very quick during the Obama administration to attack and find “guilty” Obama for many things that weren’t true. Now you want Putin to be innocent until he is proven guilty even though we are simply discussing the matter, no sentencing or execution just discussion. You want discussion, free speech, to be hindered or done away with when it involves Putin which is you way of defending the Oligarch.

Your other red herring, going off into “punishment mode”, is just that a red herring as no one said anything about punishment. Just another means to stop us from exercising our free speech rights. So many fish in your sea Weary to bad all of them are red herrings.

Now on to your projecting. You do know that just because you say it first in the thread that it doesn’t make it anything else but projecting don’t you? Projecting is projecting Weary. It is you that uses the propaganda of the far right as your comments to protect Putin from being exposed for what he is. The Italian Mafia in Britain using nerve gas on a former Russian spy! The Onion called Weary they asked you to come work for them….

You know the “fake news”, the “MSM”, “old media” or whatever else they tell you it is has it flaws but it still has more veracity than all the right wing propaganda outlets like Faux news and Breitbart. They are the dividers they divide us Weary by getting you to believe myths, misinformation, half truths and outright lies. Only you can stop them Weary, we can’t do it for you.

You know the Fear in your voice is disturbing. I feel for you. But if the Oligarch Putin is killing people using nerve gas why should we not confront him? You suggest it is because he laughs at our reporters and he has nuclear weapons. I think you really mean he might spill the beans on Trump. Is that true ?

Nothing wrong with presenting the evidence, j2t2, or is that passe now? One of the fundamentals of our legal system is a red herring now, also? It’s no wonder our justice system doesn’t work!

..might spill the beans on Trump? Really?

Not once did I read anything about Fox News reporting we should wait for evidence. Not once did I hear any news organization say they need to see the proof before convicting Putin of killing these guys. What I noticed, because it’s glaringly obvious, is that they all jumped on the Putin did it bandwagon without any convincing evidence being presented. They simply said it and you people bought the pig in a poke.

Why does your message only say I can’t have an independent thought? Why is your argument always about me being a sucker instead of giving it any serious thought on your part? You can’t win an argument by criticizing the messenger, j2t2. I know it worked for Democratics when information was a one way street, but it isn’t any longer. People can think for themselves these days with the internet and all it’s information available to everyone’s (for now).

The only reason I can see why you buy into this story is because you believe it could be turned against Trump. You don’t care about the guy that was killed. You don’t care why he was killed. You don’t care who killed him. All you care about is perhaps you can somehow pin it on Trump and make him look bad. That is actually very pathetic, but I’ll wait for you to tell me again how ignorant and stupid I am.

The entire story that follows discusses how Facebook may have violated it’s user agreement concerning how it uses data. Half way through the story they mention Trump again. In the center of the story it mentions how Cambridge Analytica’s Facebook data was not for use by the Trump campaign. One paragraph.

The rest of the story concentrates on Facebook’s user agreement, Zukerberg’s non-response, and more calls for user rights, again.

It’s like Trump was thrown in simply to add red meat to the soup. A story isn’t a story to these people if there isn’t some kind of Trump collusion angle. They’ve changed their tag line from, “If it bleeds, it leads!” to “If it doesn’t mention Trump, mention Trump”.

The criminal is dead, thanks to an armed guard at the school. No trial, no grandstanding, no perp walk, no chance for liberals to lament the loss of a poor, misguided child. Just a dead criminal. How are you going to spin this one, j2t2? Are you going to say I’m stupid and ignorant and don’t understand whatever it is I’m supposed to understand?

Weary, when I first heard the report of the school shooting in Maryland, and its successful conclusion by an armed school resource person, my thoughts went to the parents of other students murdered in schools recently.

If my child had been murdered in school my reaction would be why didn’t our school care enough to protect my child from this kind of murderer? Why didn’t my school have trained and armed personnel to protect my child?

Here’s another example of media desperately trying to involve Trump in some sort of conspiracy.

Weary, wasn’t Cambridge Analytica hired by the Trump campaign to ..well…do…what they did? Wasn’t Bannon a former employee of Cambridge Analytica? Wasn’t Bannon involved in the Trump campaign? Surely you are not going to tell me it wasn’t Trump it was his criminal organization ?

Not once did I read anything about Fox News reporting we should wait for evidence. Not once did I hear any news organization say they need to see the proof before convicting Putin of killing these guys.

Just by chance Weary did you actually hear any of them saying we should convict Putin for these crimes? Ya see you exaggerate because you want to defend Trump because as we all know he is linked to Putin and many other Russians because they backed his loans.

Many of us think the Russian government or Putin for short, has conducted these types of killings on other Russians in foreign countries in the past. We see a pattern. We put motive together with opportunity and notice this could be the answer. That doesn’t mean we have tried and convicted Putin of any crimes. However I wouldn’t trust him around my house.

Weary you have a pattern as well. You have ran with the program covering Trump from anything and everything every time the media has put out any story on Trump and Putin. You blame the media, well the “MSM”, or any real news organization, for faking the news, for picking on Trump, for well everything. That is why I question your “independent thought”.

You listen to those that divide us Weary. The propagandist that pass themselves off as news sources divide us. They confuse the issue like you are doing here, telling us the Mafia could have made the nerve gas and used it to kill those Russians.

For years I’ve wondered why people don’t carry firearms to defend themselves. The funds needed to acquire a CC permit is what’s holding me back. Since I don’t have the permit I also haven’t enrolled in any tactical training or any type of harness for CC. I’m not prepared to CC, but if my state eliminates permit fees I will do what’s necessary to keep my weapon on me at all times.

What’s for sale on the black market in Russia, j2t2? Do you know? You don’t? Hmmm.
I’d like to point out something you continue to say, and I think you don’t even realize what you’re saying or aren’t listening to yourself. Here it is:

Many of us think…

Ya see, j2t2, you’re talking opinion and I’m talking proof. You’ve got all of one and none of the other. This fiasco with Trump and collusion with the Russians already proved the left will jump to conclusions without proof hoping slander and innuendo will be enough in Liberalville. It isn’t and it never will be. You’re hoping something will stick to Trump. You couldn’t care less if it’s true or not, you just want something to stick.

It’s you who are projecting, j2t2. You’re projecting your inability to think for yourself onto me. The only reason I’m bringing up the innocent until proven guilty angle is because I do think for myself. I’m not jumping to a convenient conclusion hoping I can tar my political enemies with hearsay.

It’s great that you finally recognize the birther issue was a self inflicted wound made by Obama himself. Everybody else’s problem is we didn’t get the joke, but that’s OK! You’re making progress! Great job!

What’s for sale on the black market in Russia, j2t2? Do you know? You don’t? Hmmm.

If I were to venture a guess Weary I would say pictures of Trump getting a golden shower from Russian prostitutes in a Moscow hotel room, but like I say it is a guess.

I’d like to point out something you continue to say, and I think you don’t even realize what you’re saying or aren’t listening to yourself. Here it is:

Many of us think…

Once in a row constitutes “something I continue to say” Weary you are going off the deep end here… I may have to exercise my right to not be brought down to your level if this doesn’t improve.

Ya see, j2t2, you’re talking opinion and I’m talking proof. You’ve got all of one and none of the other.

Sinking into the abyss of nothing but drivel Weary..

It’s you who are projecting, j2t2. You’re projecting your inability to think for yourself onto me.

The problem with projecting Weary is “you’re talking opinion and I’m talking proof. You’ve got all of one and none of the other. You couldn’t care less if it’s true or not, you just want something to stick.” There I’m down to your level now, I feel sick.. We are down to the “so are you” whining…. thats what I get for arguing with a fool…right?

It’s great that you finally recognize the birther issue was a self inflicted wound made by Obama himself. Everybody else’s problem is we didn’t get the joke, but that’s OK! You’re making progress! Great job!

Wow that was close thanks Weary, a new low for you. The Obama statement was made in October 2017. Good thing facts never get in your way. Years of right wing propaganda and you blame the victim!

Oh hey BTW I was going to comment on your Trump investigation red herring “This fiasco with Trump and collusion with the Russians already proved the left will jump to conclusions without proof hoping slander and innuendo will be enough in Liberalville. It isn’t and it never will be. You’re hoping something will stick to Trump.” But then you have already said what needs to be said “Everyone is jumping to conclusions and starting the discussion based on that assumption. What ever happened to proving your assumptions before traipsing off into punishment mode.” which is I would guess your way of telling us you are projecting once again.

“-rump’s national security team had told -rump not to congratulate Putin on winning a fourth term during a phone call on Tuesday, even placing a section in his briefing materials that read “DO NOT CONGRATULATE” in all-capital letters”

“McCain was among those that slammed the move, saying that “an American president does not lead the Free World by congratulating dictators on winning sham elections.”

Trump was ‘compromised’ and Putin made him run for President.
Trump ‘colluded’ with Putin to win the election, so Trump is now super duper double compromised and must now continue doing Putin’s bidding.

Dmitry Medvedev served as the President of russia from 2008 to 2012. AFter a rocky start with W as out POTUS, relations improved when Obama became POTUS.

April 1, 2009 - Medvedev and US President Barack Obama announce that their countries will soon begin negotiations on reducing their nuclear arsenals, according to a joint statement from the two leaders.

April 8, 2010 - Medvedev and Obama sign a new nuclear arms treaty (START), cutting nuclear warheads held by each country to 1,550.

In 2012 “President Obama called Russian President-elect and Prime Minister Putin to congratulate him on his recent victory in the Russian Presidential election,”

“President Obama highlighted achievements in U.S.-Russia relations over the past three years with President Medvedev, including cooperation on Afghanistan, the conclusion and ratification of the START agreement, Russia’s recent invitation to join the World Trade Organization (WTO) and cooperation on Iran,” the statement read. “President Obama and President-Elect Putin agreed that the successful reset in relations should be built upon during the coming years.”

KAP,
Are you really that easily misled? Did you listen to Hannity and Rush and who-knows-what propaganda, and swallow their swill?

A lot changed with Russia since 2012- the invasion of Ukraine, the interference with the American election, and just recently, an attempted assassination using a nerve agent that poisoned over two dozen Brits. It gets worse. In the Russian election, Putin faced two main opponents. One was assassinated in front of the Kremlin. The other was prevented from running.

The Russia of today is much different from the Russia of 2012. Before the phone call, Trump’s national security advisors gave him a briefing paper that said ‘do not congratulate Putin. It looked like this:

DO NOT CONGRATULATE

Nevertheless, Trump congratulated him. It was the first thing out of Trump’s mouth. Trump thought no one would find out.

Trump is treason. He is compromised by the Russians. It is staring you right in the face.

“Four decades ago, I took an oath as a newly commissioned officer. I swore to ‘support and defend the Constitution,’ and that oath did not expire when I took off my uniform,” Peters wrote in the letter sent to a handful of colleagues. “Today, I feel that Fox News is assaulting our constitutional order and the rule of law, while fostering corrosive and unjustified paranoia among viewers. Over my decade with Fox, I long was proud of the association. Now I am ashamed.”

phx8, Obama was nothing but a sorry KISS A** weak leader and Putin knew it. Yes Russia is different today then 2012 because of that weakness. Obama did nothing to curb Russia’s interference in our election but to give them a slap on the wrist and Putin laughed at it. You say I am being misled? I don’t think so. In fact it is you and your liberal/progressive buddies that are being BRAINWASHED by the liberal media.

KAP,
Russia intervened in the US 2016 election to prevent a Democrat, Hillary Clinton, from winning. They feared her. The Russians preferred Donald Trump precisely because he was weak, he was compromised, he was under their thumb and he would never stand up to them. They intervened to promote their own interests at the expense of American interests.

“We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump.”
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Obama instituted sanctions for the interference in our election. Trump has done everything possible NOT to address the issue, and to repeatedly deny it as a “hoax.”

As I have told you over and over,phx8, Russia has been meddling in our elections for decades. Putin seen a weakness in Obama and used it to his advantage and now you are blaming Trump. Hillary would have sold us out for her own advantage. She did that a SECSTA. Billy getting half million to speak in Russia and her Foundation getting 145 million. Believe what you want but like I said you are getting BRAINWASHED by the liberal media.

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