No, not stolen at all. Plenty of people have made hypothetical class model threads here, and the well known one on this forum in the last year over demon hunters is mostly a silly hodgepodge of the ranged demon hunter of D3 inspired by Van Helsing with the WC3 demon hunter thrown in, which I never cared for one bit and wouldn't mind never seeing being bumped again. At least this one is trying to go more in the direction of a classic slayer/wardancer archetype, even if I feel the level of detail in the conjecture is not necessary it does the job of showing why a demon hunter is not necessarily redundant.

Yeah, I like the fact that the OP didn't take the easy way out, and went ahead and did all melee. I don't feel that crossbows and traps really work with the WC styled Demon Hunter.

While interesting, I don't think WoW needs another class with a tanking spec. Death Knight, Paladin, Monk, Warrior, Druid. We have 5 tanking classes available, and I don't see adding a 6th being viable. But... instead, just replace the tanking spec with a rogue type class. Have 2 melee DPS specs. The plate style, which would use a modified war glaive, almost like a staff with a blade at each end (almost like the double blade light saber in Star Wars). The other melee would dual wield and use stealth like the rogues and feral druids. And then the 3rd spec could be a ranged and/or heal class.

Sounds like an interesting class. But that isn't Warcraft's Demon Hunter.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 08:44 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Knadra

Cool ideas but this will never, ever happen. Deconstruction is way to difficult to actually implement in the game. Only 2 races would be the biggest rage of all time. Everything else might work though so who knows.

How do you figure Deconstruction would be hard to implement? I'm not saying they need a tattoo for every single one of the thousands of pieces of armor out there. Just take 3-6 designs for chest, and 3-6 for the rest of the body parts and call it a day. You're probably looking at about 30 tattoos total.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 08:45 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Anjerith

Not to give a short reply to a pretty lengthy article, but the idea of a hero class in this game at this time is, frankly, absurd. The playerbase cannot support the idea of one person having a character that is hands-down superior to another. Look what happened to the first hero class for any further use of an example you need.

At Blizzcon 2011, Blizzard made it pretty clear that they will continue to make Hero classes if the expansion and the class required that status.

Wish I could +1 topics though, I enjoyed *at least* the first post. Very well thought out.

Cool. Glad you enjoyed the read man. I'm also happy at the number of responses. This is by far my most popular class thread.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 08:59 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Kathranis

I haven't had time to do more than skim through the thread, but it looks like you did a pretty good job, except for some unrealistic expectations regarding race availability and equipment. Maybe a bit too close to rogues and monks, with the melee combo system and all.

From a lore standpoint, at least in the RPG, Warblades are technically any bladed weapon which has been imbued with demonic energy. If Demon Hunters are ever implemented in WoW, I fully expect that Warglaives will be given the same sort of treatment than Runeblades got in Wrath. Which is to say you'd probably get a castable "Demonic Warblade" weapon buff that has to be active to trigger most of your skills, and so any sword, axe, or polearm you equip technically becomes a Warblade.

This is why I created the passive buff Infusion for the class. Last thing we need is another DK retread.

Equippable tattoos is certainly viable, as the equipment slots are technically "chest," "shoulder," "wrist," and so on. However, I don't think Blizzard would go through such an extensive process to let a single class break down any piece of armor and turn it into another type of armor, with that type of armor being fully itemized for that class. From a practical point of view, shoulder and helmet are especially unlikely, as they aren't technically skins and are also the two pieces of equipment with the greatest level of detail and which take the longest time to for modelers to create.

It really should be no different than the Transmog, "Don't show Helmet, Cloak, etc. option, or Glyph of Stars. Except instead of nothing being there, you have a marking on your body. And again, its just like 3-6 tattoos for each body part. So you're looking at 15-30 unique tattoos total. It shouldn't be that massive of an undertaking.

Access to glaives, tattoos, hakama, and blindfolds would probably be easier accomplished through a class-exclusive vendor and transmogrification, similar to the way monks can obtain new belts and staves every ten levels. As a hero class, two complete sets of unique green and blue starting gear, plus a vendor with new glaive and blindfold designs every ten levels, plus unique Raid and PVP gear, would certainly be simple enough to implement.

Yeah, I mentioned that in the OP. Its also why I made the class a hero class.

If made a hero class, tattoos could also simply be integrated into the character customization process, similar to the way Death Knights have access to unique hair colors, faces, and decayed skin tones. More control over which pieces of armor you can show or hide might be possible to help accommodate this, and it's something that's been requested and discussed in the past.

That also works, but I prefer the Deconstruction system. It gives the player a bit more freedom.

In terms of race selection, it would probably be opened up to all or virtually all races. What little lore is available for DHs already indicates that any race can become a DH if they've got the proper alignment and someone to train them.

The lore I read indicated that the majority of Demon Hunters, and the minority are Blood Elves. There are a couple of non elven DHs here and there.

If I were to expand the races, I'd include Worgen, Draenei, Orcs, and Forsaken. Forsaken DHs would be automatically changed into Undead High Elves like the Dark Rangers at the character select screen. Outside of that, no way.

--- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal.

If you though DKs were retarded OP at Wrath launch, Demon Hunters will make them look like Vanilla Ret Pallies. Just going on my experiences from D3 where they were facerolling the hardest possible content in Blues while every other class was struggling in good gear. And seeing how lazy Blizzard has become I wouldnt put it past them to just copy/paste demon hunters straight from D3.

If you though DKs were retarded OP at Wrath launch, Demon Hunters will make them look like Vanilla Ret Pallies. Just going on my experiences from D3 where they were facerolling the hardest possible content in Blues while every other class was struggling in good gear. And seeing how lazy Blizzard has become I wouldnt put it past them to just copy/paste demon hunters straight from D3.

If you're experience with DH is only from D3 then i suggest you rethink what you think you know.

I think. . . I'm just gonna toss my opinion in here and see if anyone else agrees, and that we don't need another class next expansion, or even a new race. I'd like to see--and that is if the next expansion is about the return of the burning legion; just a really solid experience. Nothing more. If anything, I think we'll see new race models as the next expansion's "Big thing". But I just want a heavy lore, eventful and solid gameplay and story experience. That's it. And that is because there is already enough problems with the Monk that balancing another class, and atop of getting another character slot, is just too much.
But I like demon hunters, and would much rather see them then Monk or Dk. (probably an unpopular opinion).

Not to give a short reply to a pretty lengthy article, but the idea of a hero class in this game at this time is, frankly, absurd. The playerbase cannot support the idea of one person having a character that is hands-down superior to another. Look what happened to the first hero class for any further use of an example you need.

Wish I could +1 topics though, I enjoyed *at least* the first post. Very well thought out.

Hero classes were never intended to be a superior class to the others though. You are mistaken if you're under this impression. Blizzard tried to make them feel slightly overpowered while not being overpowered, and they failed at the precarious balance they set out to achieve, but it was never supposed to be superior to the other classes. Starting out life as an established warrior rather than an apprentice in rags at level 1 is basically all a hero class is now, and Blizzard in the last year has said they are perfectly fine with adding a hero class if it feels right for the theme of the expansion.

It's not a matter of superiority. Before WOTLK, a hero class was nothing more than a hero unit from WC3 people wanted to play or an advanced class tree/epic class from the RPG.

This hang up people have over what "heroic" means if anything is what is frankly absurd here.

---------- Post added 2013-02-26 at 04:18 AM ----------

While I like the deconstruction idea, I think demon hunters offer a great opportunity for armor designs we don't see in the game yet and I think people are taking the naked fighter thing a bit too far, it would get to be pretty boring over time. We have the holy angelic thing with paladins and priests, we have the black knight of death for deathknights, the generic juggernaut of warriors, I'd like to see more than warlocks getting demonic aesthetic armor sets.

If you ever read the Spawn comics, you may know what I mean. A demonic Hell Knight with demonic armor sets would look really cool, and it doesn't have to be heavily armored. Look at the way Warhammer Online handled the armor sets for Dwarven Slayers and I think that's a good model for demon hunters. I think if I spent some time with my sketchbook I could sway some of you on this.

While having half of their chest or a naked tattooed arm exposed, a single arm encased in armor with a buckler on it, overlapping woven plates on the hips or knees or shins, different glove designs, elaborate single shoulder pads or sometimes a pair of shoulder pads, all with lots of demonic body parts and demonic bones and ornaments hanging from their belts and what not, with interesting visors and face masks highlighting their blindness, always with interesting ways to expose the skin and show off their tattoos, just like the Slayer or Witch Elf from Warhammer Online.

I also like the idea of expanding the demon hunter beyond just Illidan's fighting style, and making it more of a set of specialized abilities and stat bonuses a number of classes could use. I could see an armored knight in heavy armor with his eye's bound as a demon hunter specialist, we sort of have this already with the demon hunter warlocks we are forced to play today.

Just as with paladins and priests, demon hunters can be the demonic hellknight or hell ninja while the warlock is the demonic wizard or witch.

Mostly though I just want to play as the WC3 Demon Hunter when all is said and done.

I think. . . I'm just gonna toss my opinion in here and see if anyone else agrees, and that we don't need another class next expansion, or even a new race. I'd like to see--and that is if the next expansion is about the return of the burning legion; just a really solid experience. Nothing more. If anything, I think we'll see new race models as the next expansion's "Big thing". But I just want a heavy lore, eventful and solid gameplay and story experience. That's it. And that is because there is already enough problems with the Monk that balancing another class, and atop of getting another character slot, is just too much.
But I like demon hunters, and would much rather see them then Monk or Dk. (probably an unpopular opinion).

I think the main argument for Demon Hunters is money. They are by far the most popular and requested class ever. Every class thread about them is popular. Every poll they're in, they win big no matter what its up against. It's a very powerful selling point, and given that WoW is in a slow decline, Blizzard may pull that card just to peak subscribers at the tail end of WoW's life cycle.

When you got your star player on the bench in the 4th quarter, you don't keep him out, you let him play.

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 01:25 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate

Teriz always does a great job creating class ideas always so detailed, great job as always.

Thanks man. If you or anyone else would like me to do a class, just let me. I'd love to come up with something new.

That also works, but I prefer the Deconstruction system. It gives the player a bit more freedom.

There's also lore for that as well. Those tattoos are supercharged with arcane energies. Having the ability to switch them in and out could be construed as sort of specializing the magic you're holding within yourself.

Originally Posted by Teriz

It really should be no different than the Transmog, "Don't show Helmet, Cloak, etc. option, or Glyph of Stars. Except instead of nothing being there, you have a marking on your body. And again, its just like 3-6 tattoos for each body part. So you're looking at 15-30 unique tattoos total. It shouldn't be that massive of an undertaking.

Well no, because like the guy said, shoulders ARE a model separate of the player model, unlike chests and bracers. Gloves and helms would also be a potential bother since they're also models. I doubt it wouldn't be too bad, but you'd have to do a good deal more work with all generic mail helms, shoulders, and gloves, in order for demon hunter tattoos to be a thing.

Thanks. I can't take all the credit for that though. Golden Yak originally came up with having a spec similar to the spellbreaker. I just sort of ran with it.

There's also lore for that as well. Those tattoos are supercharged with arcane energies. Having the ability to switch them in and out could be construed as sort of specializing the magic you're holding within yourself.

I figured as much since every pic I saw had the tattoos glowing with energy. Good to know that a concept like that would have a place in lore.

Well no, because like the guy said, shoulders ARE a model separate of the player model, unlike chests and bracers. Gloves and helms would also be a potential bother since they're also models. I doubt it wouldn't be too bad, but you'd have to do a good deal more work with all generic mail helms, shoulders, and gloves, in order for demon hunter tattoos to be a thing.

Well, again I don't think you need to make thousands of tattoos for thousands of pieces of armor. Just a small set of tattoos that covers everything would do. I also agree that tier sets can be made up of armor that resembles tattoos as well. All of this in an effort to have the "naked Demon Hunter" everyone wants, even though they're wearing mail armor.

I figured as much since every pic I saw had the tattoos glowing with energy. Good to know that a concept like that would have a place in lore.

The second bit's mainly just my speculation on the subject, but yeah. It's definitely a possibility within the lore. Not as much the transforming items into tattoos bit (which is just a clever mechanic to keep with the traditional aesthetic that demon hunters have had since their inception), but the multiple styles of tattoos.

Originally Posted by Teriz

Well, again I don't think you need to make thousands of tattoos for thousands of pieces of armor. Just a small set of tattoos that covers everything would do. I also agree that tier sets can be made up of armor that resembles tattoos as well. All of this in an effort to have the "naked Demon Hunter" everyone wants, even though they're wearing mail armor.

No, of course not.

But you WOULD need to modify the code of existing items to make those tattoos show instead of the original skin / armor for demon hunters.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I am saying I can understand that it's a pretty big hill to climb, if only because of the sheer mass of items the developers would have to go through.

Yes, but there's no point in allowing other races to be Demon Hunters if there's only a couple of them in the entire world.

As for my old thread, check out the introduction.

buuut we have worgen deathknights, and almost everything can be a monk, and tauren can be paladins. soooooo yeh

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 08:40 PM ----------

Originally Posted by The Madgod

The second bit's mainly just my speculation on the subject, but yeah. It's definitely a possibility within the lore. Not as much the transforming items into tattoos bit (which is just a clever mechanic to keep with the traditional aesthetic that demon hunters have had since their inception), but the multiple styles of tattoos.

No, of course not.

But you WOULD need to modify the code of existing items to make those tattoos show instead of the original skin / armor for demon hunters.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I am saying I can understand that it's a pretty big hill to climb, if only because of the sheer mass of items the developers would have to go through.

I disagree, from pretty much wrath onward gear is all the same with different recolors. and TBC gear is just recolors of vanilla gear for the most part. there really isn't that many "Models" of gear, just differen't colors. That and they would only need to do leather and mail. let them wear cloth like normal, and they can't wear plate. only issue is... then your shit will all look the same, but who cares about leveling gearz?

There is also the option of allowing them to "Purchase" invisible gear to mog, and moggable blindfolds, like monks have for their fist weapons. that way, if they wanna have a demon hunter with gear, they can, but the option is there for people.

There's no law that says ya gotta go topless, by that logic, most lore characters are not utilizing the full benifit of having all their gear on. I mean wtf with malfurion, no chest piece, or tyrande no weapon, or shoulders. Their gear isnt gemmed or chanted either.

Last edited by roahn the warlock; 2013-02-28 at 01:48 AM.

It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players

Originally Posted by ringpriest

World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

buuut we have worgen deathknights, and almost everything can be a monk, and tauren can be paladins. soooooo yeh

That's... that's not really relevant. Especially the Tauren bit...

Originally Posted by roahn the warlock

I disagree, from pretty much wrath onward gear is all the same with different recolors. and TBC gear is just recolors of vanilla gear for the most part. there really isn't that many "Models" of gear, just differen't colors. That and they would only need to do leather and mail. let them wear cloth like normal, and they can't wear plate. only issue is... then your shit will all look the same, but who cares about leveling gearz?

See, that's not how it works. Items share models. Models don't share item ID's. Each item has its own unique ID and therefore it has its own unique bit of code. If this were to be implemented they would have to go into each item's little block of code and add this in.

Originally Posted by roahn the warlock

There is also the option of allowing them to "Purchase" invisible gear to mog, and moggable blindfolds, like monks have for their fist weapons. that way, if they wanna have a demon hunter with gear, they can, but the option is there for people.

That is an option, but it is a bit of a "meh" one. Demon hunters just don't really wear armor. That's how they work. The have portrayed demon hunters thus since 2003. To have that rely on an in-game mechanic seems cheap and unsavory.

Originally Posted by roahn the warlock

There's no law that says ya gotta go topless, by that logic, most lore characters are not utilizing the full benifit of having all their gear on. I mean wtf with malfurion, no chest piece, or tyrande no weapon, or shoulders. Their gear isnt gemmed or chanted either.

That's mainly because in lore, armor doesn't provide magical enhancements to their skills as far as we're aware. There's never really been note of such.