Should be posting one of these a month now as we count down to the day we get this ‘wind powered car’ on the road.

Our first focus was the batteries – where to put them to keep the weight in the car in the right place in terms of centre of gravity and front/rear weight distribution. And how to house them so that we can keep them physically restrained but control their temperature during charging and discharging and protect them from the elements.

We’ve also been working on a ‘transmission box’ to sit at the rear of the car between the wheels. It’s not a gearbox as such just something to slow down the rotational speeds of the motors a bit, to make them more suitable for driving car wheels, and handle reverse as well, a useful consideration….

And we’ve got a transparent rear boot planned so we can show off all this techno stuff, Ferrari style. That could look pretty cool.

We need a name though (‘a hook’ as they say in those Orange cinema ads, which I love).

Thanks for all the name suggestions guys, there’s some good ideas in there, keep em coming.

Other names we once thought of we’re Zephyr, which is another one of those wind names but also quite a famous Ford model (for those old enough to remember) – and Z car, another historical nod to something (cop program on TV when I was a kid) and also gets the Zero in there, kind of.

We are currently working on converting a car ourselves, at http://www.miamiEVproject.com . I wish we had “British multimillionaire guy budget” to play with a car like this, but we don’t, so we are focusing on a commuter car that will do normal performance to go to work, run some errands and come back (which is what most people use thier cars for, most of the time).

I would neither go with ‘Zero’ nor ‘Falcon’.
‘Zero’ due to the obvious connotations.
‘Falcon’ is a large lard-assed Ford family sedan in Aust.

Personally, I like ‘Aeolus’.

My query is; I may have completely missed it, but I want to hear how you’re going to use the wind to charge it. The ‘youtube’ talks of ‘150 miles before you have to plug it in’.

Doesn’t that make it no different to any other electric car?

But if you were thinking of using some form of smaller diameter fans sitting where the radiator normally would (enabling the wind being forced through the old radiator ducts whilst driving to turn them more easily and at hgher RPM), to drive some form of generator which in turn charges the batteries; ….. now THAT would be special.

Never plug it in again, no fluids (except brake fluid) and it charges itself as you drive.

Great to see like minded people… and obviously having some very private eureka moments on energy. I am a petrol head an shudder at the thought of not hearing a Mclaren V10 singing at 20,000Hz! Kyle has hit the mark… I too had this eureka – not using the flowing air enough to recharge. Rotational energy is all over the car! Consider this:

1. Road tunnels have fans to remove CO2… what about, i thought, if the fans rotated from the passing vehicles… that could provide the power to remove the CO2 and power the lights in the tunnel.

2. What about the water hitting the car….. answer is in my head!!!

3. What about the wind produced by the poor aerodynamics of the car on the road side… answer also in my head (easy to work out!)

4. Thermocouples!… answer in my head

5. many more ideas

Dale, what about a small convention at Swaffam around your project to get this going?

Hi Kyle, yep you got it, we’re planning an electric car but charged completely from the wind, so it will be zero emission – and wind powered.

Nice idea by the way, but I think one of the fundamental laws of physics (the one that says there’s no free lunch… 🙂 ) will get in the way. Basically the drag created by fans being used as generators would take as much extra power to propel the car as you might hope to gain from making additional power from the fans.

We’ll be making our car as slippery as possible (min drag, max efficiency) and that includes blocking up a lot of the old holes you only really need for an internal combustion engine – like the radiator grill.

LUCAS brake light runs at 12V and circa 0.5 amps at 200 deg celcius or more!!! most cars hitting the brakes as we speak… frightening…. just ponder how much ancient light energy is being used every second through brake lights!!! the filament light bulb has had its day!!! surely

Consider Porsche… aircooled engines! Isn’t that more green than water cooled? Surely we need to look back at some inventions and realise we over did it a bit with the industrial revolution and a lot of answers are already staring us in the face!!

“There is been quite a bit of focus lately on lithium ion batteries. As Michael C pointed out here in the last article, lithium is a limited supply and cannot sustain us for the long-term.”

“Capacitors already enjoy the benefit of fast charging and discharging. Caps can be totally discharged without failure, left in sub zero temperatures for months (or years). Sub zero charging is no problem. Caps also charge at a 95% rate of efficiency. Capacitors can be charged a half million times (or more) and not show any aging (failure to hold full charge). No exotic materials are needed to make a capacitor and no depletion of any material will occur. All these qualities are needed by the auto manufacturers for a car that is less expensive, will start every time and have a long life without problems.”

It also goes on

“Wind power generation and the ultracapacitor are complementary technologies, since we need to be able to store some of that power. Also ultracapacitors are used in windmills to control the pitch and movement of the blades. Can we expect to see more widespread use of the ultracapacitor, as sustainable energy sources are further developed and become more available? No Doubt! Ultracapacitors are making their mark now in many applications.”

So Are Ultracapacitors better than batteries?

Adi

September 23, 2008 at 11:34 pm

Hi Dale,

The UK’s first electric taxi powered by renewables back in 2000 – which you had a go in had a “Lynch” motor. A genius redesign to give < 3 X the amount of power for the same motor weight. Later – a friend used 2 Lynch motors instead of one (as the taxi was on the slow side and we burned a few cars on the Ebley bypass! Anyhow – I gave up that electric car line as it doesn’t pay for itself commercially, so I may be well out of date with developments.. but if your engineers have not heard of the Lynch motor then that should be an option for your power-weight ratio issue. (The inventor is still about and if I remember correctly make a large version of it)

Also, and this is a long shot .. but the french chap who is now producing the air cars (in India I think) would be worth approaching for a piece of advice – specifically: whether the energy density of a compressed air container could potentially be less than the weight of conventional batterys. Put another way: Im suggesting that the air store replaces the battery – if the air store is lighter. (The compressor can be still be wind charged of course). Just a thought – I may be well off and the air tank may weigh more – but worth investigating and eliminating – if you haven’t already done so.

The WindCar will be a good advert for you anyhow – but wont be downscalable for commercial use. For commercial it would be better to have a plug in diesel-hybrid (biofuel) hybrid which is normally charge but run on carbon neutral biofuel for longer ranges when needed. Basically a slight variation to the Prius concept would make it carbon neutral.

Keep on

Adi

leo

September 25, 2008 at 11:42 pm

hi…
just an obvious thought:
will the rear motors work in unisome, or will they be able to work like a differential to allow unsymmetrical power delivery to each rear wheel to give maximum traction in cornering, wet, uneven ground etc. conditions???

Sir; I have a patent on a ele car that charges it self. Mind will go over 120 mph. It is not a hybird or solar. The number of batteries is only 8 to 16 [Depending on size of motor] It uses no gas or oil. It will last for about 4 to 6 years agine depending on use. Then the batteries need to be replaced.It is also a mid size car, not a small car. I also can make a suv or larger one if need be. I am making a dvd, an it will be finish soon. If you need more info please email me. Thanks: Denny Kimble

Sir; I for got to tell you that I started this in 1978, So I have been working on every nut an bolt on this car. It looks like that we both need help on getting our cars to market. please email me, with any questions you may have.

The motors will be independent and we’ll have in effect an electronic differential, for corners and stuff. Small technical challenge I’m told, but an electronic diff should be better than a mechanical one in a number of ways. We’ll see. Cheers.

BigP

October 6, 2008 at 7:30 pm

Naming it after a wind as suggested above? Good idea. How about something to do with the sirocco? An unstoppable, penetrating wind which arises when the heat of tropical Africa blows towards Europe. We are all worried that Europe is going to experience hotter weather long-term in the future….

And sirocco has some kind of sound similarity to zero-CO (admittedly that’s monoxide) or zero-coal.

Hope you are incorporating regenerative braking into the design – no use wasting all the braking energy to heat, use it to top-up the batteries !

Mick

Scott

October 21, 2008 at 12:37 pm

This might have already been mentioned, but there is already a Volkswagen with the name Scirocco. I believe they have also released a new version as well. Would that cause problems in using the same name?

Thanks Mick. Our guys looked at regenrative braking but couldn’t see the sense at this stage. The contribution to battery life and range were tiny indeed, whereas the cost and complexity was quite big. I’m all for the principle of not wasting energy in the heat of braking but currently I think regen braking is more of a sales and marketing thing than real world gain. I expect that will change though.

———–

Thanks Scott, I had the feeling VW had used the name, it’s a good one. but never mind.

Cheers

Al

November 3, 2008 at 6:40 pm

Hi Dale

I’m surprised that you have dismissed regenerative braking as a marketing tool. Some train operators are reporting 21% return for regen trains.

The level of returned energy will depend on how often you are decelerating, turning kinetic energy back into electricity, That’s going to depend on how and where you drive.

Since this is a sports car, and they are meant to be driven hard, that’s a lot of energy just wasted.

And while you’ve got the seats out take the opportunity to replace the standard speakers!

Good luck with the project and your company.

Grupmpy_b

November 4, 2008 at 1:06 pm

Its great to see this project, hopefully to further interest in EVs. We now run 2 Citroen Berlingo Electriques, and clocking up 1200 miles per month. Only problem is the recent increase in Electricity prices!!
With regard to re-generative braking, its great. On the Berlingos the design of the systems is brilliant, you only recover about 20% of the energy, but the simplicity you get in driving far outweighs the disbenefits of such a system.
Many people who we talk to readily admit they could use a vehicle such as the Blingo even with its 40+ mile range.

Good luck, next step is a new version of the Berlingo/ equivalent at a decent cost. It would sell loads.

Thanks Al, I may have overstated that a bit. Our engineers reckoned we might get another 10 miles on the range from regenerative braking, and the cost of development was going to be high. It looked like a luxury to us at this stage. Glad to hear it’s working on trains though and on Grumpy_b’s Berlingos. Cheers.

I’m with Kyle here (see below) only I imagined the long thin turbine to be across the roof of the car like a taxi bar with a long lawn mower roller blade shape inside. I know little about mechanical physics but are you sure the wind going over the car can’t be utilised as well, even if it was to subsidise the energy from the plug and yes I hear what you say about drag etc but is there not a pay off available somewhere special fins and shape etc. and how about photoelec cells all over at the same time. My car conks out when I do short runs in the winter because I have lights/heater/radio on. As My car sits mostly all day it could be charging at this time instead of me having to do an extra mile so I can use the heater.

As I say I know nothing but I do listen to my intuition – I see the future as individual generating mini wind turbines, solar panels etc each individual generating their own energy supply on a microscale as well as more commercial ventures

Love & Light and keep the mind turbines turning.

As for a name I suggest the ZC (pronounced ZED SEE)Zero Carbonista!!!!

Kyles comments Sept 18 2008:
But if you were thinking of using some form of smaller diameter fans sitting where the radiator normally would (enabling the wind being forced through the old radiator ducts whilst driving to turn them more easily and at hgher RPM), to drive some form of generator which in turn charges the batteries; ….. now THAT would be special.

bones16

November 20, 2008 at 11:38 pm

Just came across your website on the wind car. As I am considering developing my own electric vehicle, I was wondering why you opted for 2 wheel drive system rather than a 4 wheel drive?

Thanks Moonbeam. The thing about having an on-board windmill is that the energy we could capture while moving would be lost as extra work the motors had to do – as the windmill would create drag. It’s all back to the no free lunch law of physics. A turbine used while the car was stationary wouldn’t have the same problem, but probably couldn’t generate any significant amounts of power either, nor could a solar panel. Plugging in at home, at work, at the shops – wherever, is the most efficient way to do this, cost and carbon wise. Thanks for the name suggestion, it’s straight in the top 5. Cheers.

——————–

Hi Bones16 – the reason we chose two wheel drive over four is all down to the availability of motors. We’d have loved to have four wheel drive using four wheel hub motors but for two things – first we couldn’t get them big enough to meet our performance objectives (we needed about 150 HP) and second wheel hub motors come with some serious engineering issues, like the increase in un sprung weight (which adversely affects handling and the exposure of the motors to the environment down at the wheel. We opted for the inboard pair of motors at the rear for those reasons. Wheel hub motors may well have more to offer in the future or for a diff car – probably both. Cheers.

Hi My name is Denny Kimble,I have all ready invented the Wind car,I did it before 1979. From that time till now, I have been improving the car speed,looks,Ect. I have a cd of it if any one would like to see it,or ask any questions, My email is Danchorage@aol.com. From what I see in yours it may look the same,or at lease work the same. Good luck on the speed, it took me 15 years to get it past 100 mph. Only thing is, mind will never need to be charged. It will last from 6 to 8 years depending on use and is not a hybird.It is all electric..Thanks, If I can help you, please let me know

MechaZilla

January 26, 2009 at 1:05 pm

I feel I must respond to Denny’s comment from 25/01.
From what I can gather you are saying that you have designed and built a completely electric car that will exceed 100mph and will never need charging. Is this what the science world has been looking for as evidence that perpetual motion exists?

In fact this would have to be a step beyond perpetual motion since in order that the car remain constantly charged AND can travel what one must assume is infinite distance then the energy being put into it must be greater than the energy being used to travel. Have you discovered the key to cold fusion perhaps? Or maybe you’ve harnessed the power of a point singularity, because if we agree that current understanding of thermodynamics, entropy and enthalpy are correct then your options of power plant are somewhat limited.

No ,It is not pm. that does not exist.Before you make fun of some one.You should study wind power. yes. I do charge the batteres before it goes into the car,after that, wind power charges the cells.The motor uses less than the generators produce.I have 4 to 8 generators, depending on size of motor.The cells only last for about 6 to 8 years before they to need to be changed.As you go down the road, the car is charged by the wind that is passing threw it.If you would like to see a cd of it,please send me your address and I will send you one,free.Thanks for your commet.Danchorage@aol.com Denny Kimble

Gundam

January 28, 2009 at 10:01 am

Denny, I’m still not clear how this isn’t perpetual motion. The airflow through the car is as a result of the car’s forward motion and therefore is created by the motor. You then extract energy from this airflow to create more forward motion.

How is this different to using a turbine to power a giant fan which then blows air at the turbine to generate power?

And finally, is there any reason why you couldn’t post the contents of your CD online somewhere?

Hi Gundan. First of all. the batteres need to be charged before installing in the car. That stops the pm. Because the motor is not using all the power that the generators can produce. It needs to be balance. If you had a 4 cycle motor you could not put a 24 volt battery,that is too much, that is why we usr 12 volt.The same thing as ele. cars. the smaller the motor the less we need, the larger the motor the more we need.
I do not know how are where to web the cd. If you go to the company I use,you most likely will see it there.SAIinvent.com Thanks for the commet
Denny
And no it is not the same as you think, the fans only work because of the input. not the charge,I understand what you are saying, But it will not happen like that,sorry Denny

Dave

January 30, 2009 at 11:48 am

Dear all… I suggest we just leave this whole discussion alone, because Denny’s writing style is as impossible to grasp as the idea itself. And the website he suggested doesn’t exist. Please, let’s move on.

Hey Guys.. sorry,, I am not good with a computer.. I am much better in person. I write as I think,and sometimes I get ahead of my self. The web site is [ http://www.Inventsai.com ] . I had it backwards. I will send anyone a cd, so you can see what I am trying to say.Sorry for all the confustion.I,m not as crazy as I write.If you would like a cd please let me know.

Hi i find your web site very interesting and full of useful info and a very good video.
i have 3 wind generators/turbines and 4 solar panels my self and i run my 2 tvs and lights on them, so i am saving money and help saving the environment!
Regards Steve.

Bruce Faulkner

June 2, 2009 at 3:18 pm

Dale,

Very interesting….

I was wondering if you’ve looked into WindBelt technology for powering the car.

Zero Carbonista

This blog is about answers to the big questions - how will we keep the lights on, what kind of cars will we drive (will we drive?) and how will we feed ourselves - in a post oil world, and a world where we can't afford to keep burning things and throwing things away. Energy, Transport and Food are the three big issues.