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Monday, August 20, 2012

How Did Pastor Edwin Young Treat Women?

An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious thanjewels.

Proverbs 31:10

Ok ladies and gentlemen, I found another video at SpiritualAbuse.org. It was very difficult to listen to the first videos I posted earlier. Here is another recording from Pastor Edwin Young abruptly resigned from Faith Tabernacle in Junction City, Kansas a short time ago.There is also more disturbing news to follow up regarding Edwin Young's son, Jordan, who was recently arrested. Jordan Young worked at Faith Tabernacle Apostolic Church along with his father. More sexual charges were filed for Jordan Young. I've quoted the highlights below.

Junction City Police Chief Tim Brown is confirming the arrest of Jordan Young, 25, Junction City for a second time this week.

Young, who had been serving as Music Director for the Faith Tabernacle Apostolic Church, was arrested by police Friday on suspicion of aggravated criminal sodomy, aggravated indecent liberties with a child, and sexual solicitation of a child. He was arrested at the Geary County Detention Center where he has been incarcerated since Monday after being arrested by police on suspicion of aggravated indecent liberties with a child, attempted criminal sodomy, and solicitation of a child.

Jordan Young is an example of one kind of fruit coming out of Faith Tabernacle.

Let's take another look at his father, Pastor Edwin Young and the fruit he displayed. In the following video, evidently a woman in the congregation asked another congregant a question regarding the sermon and the pastor caught them talking. Pastor Young is speaking on Hannah and stops the sermon to berate the women. What you will be hearing is the pastor verbally trash-talking the women from the pulpit in response to catching them talking. This is a disgusting and condescending verbal diatribe.Praise God this man is gone from the pulpit for now, but you can be sure there are others like him. This kind of behavior from pastors needs to be exposed. It is not Christ-like. It devalues women and treats them worse than animals. Is Edwin Young's mother still alive? I wonder how she would feel listening to his words? Would she say, "That's my boy?" or would she be cringing inside. If I were his mother, he'd be hearing some of my words . . . . . a few carefully selected words.

Here are a couple paragraphs transcribed from the video. You really need to hear it for yourself to believe it. If you are prone to high blood pressure, please take necessary action NOW.

Transcription from Sermon:

Sit down. (people had stood, cheering him on) If they have any questions, let 'em ask their husband at home. That's in your Bible. That means shut your mouth while I'm teachin'! That's why some of you ain't married. You don't want no man talking to you. You don't want no man telling you what to do. And that's why some of you are not happily married. Oh, it's your day, woman. (he was looking right at the woman who had whispered in service) Can you take it? (laughs) I was gonna say take it like a man.(laughs again)

You may be seated. Now, now watch this. (he demonstrates) A man wears the pants in the family. You may be seated. (people had stood again, cheering him on) Two things God can't stand: a henpecked husband and a bossy... (he has trouble remembering) A bossy woman and a henpecked man. And I'm not wearing pink shorts. I don't shave my legs! And I don't talk like this. (he uses a high squeaky voice) Eh. You may be seated.(people had stood again, cheering him on) You know why these men are standing? Because they don't wanna be identified with a homosexual spirit. (No, homosexuality was never mentioned until this point.) An effeminate spirit and attitude. Because they're men and they're every bit a man and they want you and everybody else alive not to make any mistake about it. You may be seated. (people had stood again, cheering him on) And women oughta shout the same way when I get on that bossy woman spirit.(there is an increase in the women's voices) And that woman running the house and running her mouth spirit.

What does God's word say about women here? Do you see condescention, belittling, trash-talking? There may be those reading who don't have a problem with this kind of talk regarding women. Maybe this is your "normal". Is this the "normal" we see in God's word? Sometimes the normal that we find at our church really is only the pastor's world of "normal" and really not anything like God would want. The pastor is creating his own form of Christianity with rules and regulations.

Some who are visiting here may think I am being offensive talking about this "man of God" in such a way. It is not my desire to make enemies, but to challenge you to see for yourself what God says about women and rules. God has bought us with a price, our pastors have not. God has given us His Holy Spirit to guide us and He has given us His word to learn His truth, but some people give that power over to their pastors who abuse their authority.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not about bashing pastors. I have the utmost respect for pastors who shepherd and guide. We have a couple regulars here I would e-mail or call in a heartbeat if I needed guidance or counsel. I'm talking about abusive pastors - pastors who twist scripture, pastor who make up their own rules.

Snooping around the spiritualabuse.org site, I found much more on women and the rules they had on how they were allowed to wear their hair and how they were not to wear their hair. Ladies, you will be okay at this church if you wear your hear like this:

Okay, see that top left photo - I can do that one without trying when I wake up in the morning. I've got these cursed fantastic cowlicks on either side of my forehead. They're real fun to deal with (NOT). In order for me to make the other hairstyles even possible, I'd have to take heroic measures with a hair straightener and bobby pins and hairspray. I'm just not into that kind of primping. I fear I not be able to go to this church because my hair would fail me and the regulations. What would happen with someone like me whose hair simply doesn't cooperate? Would I be allowed to go to church? Is church a prerequisite to heaven? Maybe I'd be on my way to hell? I just don't know. The following hairstyles are NOT allowed at church whatsoever. I wonder what would happen if you went to church with one of these styles? Perhaps a verbal thrashing from the pulpit like we heard earlier?

Just to make sure you understand the deal here - you may not have a perm (what if you have naturally curly hair?), or dye your hair. No Afro-puffs or curly fish tails (I need an interpreter for this lingo - someone help me, please). Rev. Westberg, the author of this list of rules, apparently doesn't appreciate the Egyptian "Cleopatra" look and please do not wear curlers to church or public places (I kind of think curlers should remain at home, too).

Evidently, the reason Rev. Westberg established these rules was "to uphold Biblical principals (I think the reverend forgot that princiPAL is the guy who works in a school, not the word meaning "fundamental truth" - oopsie!) regarding the simple, modest and moderate hairstyles that identify the wearer as a Holy Ghost filled Christian Church member." You see . . . because "Godly women of Faith Tabernacle are not to seek sensual attractiveness through elaborate hairstyles." Are bangs swept off to the side sensual? Well, okay then. Will someone please take a look at my hair on the upper right-hand corner of the screen? I think the picture will enlarge. Is that "moderate"? I have no clue. Is there going to be a hair-check inspection at heaven's gate? Wait . . . will we have hair in heaven? Help me! I'm kind of making light of these rules, but can you imagine the pressure to meet these rules week after week?

Here are the verses the Reverend used to back up these rules:

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. Romans 12:1

Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised. Proverbs 31:30

For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 1 Cor 11:6

But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. 1 Cor 11:15

Abstain from all appearance of evil. 1 Thes 5:22

I was fully expecting the long hair verse in there, but the "abstain from all appearances of evil" verse? What is evil about hair and hairstyles? Am I missing something? How does one determine what is evil and what is not? I have a hunch that there are those who might think the pictures on top are more sensual than the pictures on the bottom. Do they switch the pictures around at whim depending on who is in charge? I remember the big hair days (yes, I did that too) - was that sensual? I'm sure people thought that big hair was sensual "back then". It sure doesn't seem like it would be considered sensual now. I've heard teens laugh at those big-hair pictures from the 90s. I remember when the mullet hairstyle on a guy was kind of cute (my kids would disown me if they read these words and Hannah will probably make note of it on her Facebook status, because she's like that - lol), yet now the style is practically scandalous according to my teens and young adults. What do you think of the mullet? Cute? Yes or no?

You see - these rules are man-made. Opinions and styles change. These rules are left up to the interpretation of man. Did Moses have an opinion on the Mullet? Would Deborah have dyed her hair if she could? These are not matters of the heart. They are not Biblical. It is legalism. If you are a current member or former member of this church, please understand my heart. I am not meaning to offend you with my words. God is bigger than man-made rules and regulations. He's looking at the heart. I get legalism. I experienced it. We were worried about how much skin was showing above the knees on my 6'8" son. He had a very difficult time finding church-approved shorts for his very long legs. Do you really think God was counting inches? I think not.

All fashion sense and legalism aside, a blogger who goes by the name "ThroughGraceAlone" left a comment here the other day. I visited her blog and my heart ached for her. Faith Tabernacle was her beloved church. You could sense the loss and struggles she was feeling, the questions, and the heartache in her blog posts as she was considering the loss of her senior pastor and all that is going on with the pastor's son. Here is part of what she had to say about the kind of rules she dealt with:

I have several issues with these thoughts, but there is one that really gets me. Perfection. The five fold ministry is for “the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry.” So we are to be brought to perfection or maturity.

But what is perfect? What is mature? Simple (they say). Don’t cut your hair, don’t put on makeup, don’t wear pants, always wear long sleeves, don’t wear jewelry (including wedding bands or bracelet watches). Don’t go on a date without a chaperone, or hold hands or kiss until you’re married. Don’t lie. Respect the ministry, never talk bad about the man of God or his family, and never question what a leader says. Don’t wear hairbows, don’t wear anything in your hair that doesn’t match your hair color. Don’t wear red, don’t wear certain shoes, don’t wear denim to church, don’t wear denim jackets or caps ever. Sit like a lady. Stay submissive. Learn when to clap and shout and run, and always do these at the right times. Don’t be out after midnight, don’t fellowship nonApostolics, don’t drink or chew or cuss or swear….

and

If lists of rules were perfection, the Pharisees and Jesus would have been great friends, I suppose. But they weren’t. It was Jesus who said “ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and forget the weightier matters of the law… these ought ye have done, and not to leave the other undone”. It was Jesus who said “he that is without sin, let him cast the first stone.” Jesus stepped beyond the rules and touched the heart.

God calls us, as Christians, beyond a list of rules. We are called by Him into a place of trust and faith and love. We desire to do our best for him, but our best isn’t anymore…

ThroughGraceAlone gets the heart of the matter. The pastor's words of disdain and ridicule towards women did not bring God's message to His people. We were hearing the pastor's own bitter and angry heart. The rigid rules regarding how to style the hair are man-made rules of legalism. They were extra-Biblical and not necessary. They distract from the real message of the Gospel.

A special note to ThroughGraceAlone:

Sister, Thank you so much for allowing me to quote from your blog. You have a beautiful heart. I can sense the pain that you have experienced and I hope that your writing will touch the hearts of those who have experienced what you have experienced at your former church. You have a great ministry of caring for the hurting and giving hope. Please keep in touch with me and let me know how you are doing and how God is working through your blog.

48 comments:

thirty seconds beginning with 'Because I love God! Because I love His Word! I love His Ways!...' and at 34 sec 'That means SHUT YOUR MOUTH while I'M TEACHing!'

right then and there i would have stood up and shouted back, making my way up to that man to rebuke him to his face. i wouldn't be afraid of a single man there, for if there was another righteous man in the house HE WOULD NOT HAVE REMAINED SILENT either! What kind of FOOLS are these men! What kind of ignorant puppets?

Yes, you have anger, David, because this is not what you are used to. There are probably going to be visitors who will be offended that we are having difficulties with it. Those are the people I would like to address and ask if they have considered that there are other ways of preaching.

I know an awful lot of people who were trying to give us warning signs about our former church. One lady nabbed me from our homeschool co-op to talk with her in her van. She was beckoning and pleading with me to really look at what was being preached. I remember thinking at the time that she was just ignorant. I'm eating my words now. Even though the entire time I was there (2 years), I knew something wasn't right, there was a battle going on in my mind.

That is the battle that I am hoping others who stop by and listen/see this will consider.

When I think of this distored, corrupt, and obnoxious belief system I think of those who taught them, modeled for them, and now enable them. I wonder how these people were raised as children. How did they come up with such offense to the name of Christ and the role of pastor in His Church??!!

The word 'obnoxious' is suitable in many ways. Today we use the word to name that which is disgustingly objectionable and that which is highly offensive.

The origin of the word is: ob--in the way of, exposed to + noxa--harm. This meant being exposed to something unpleasant or harmful. Too many people think that this stuff is from the Bible, is correctly interpreted, and that this is an appropriate model of godly preaching. In fact, it is objectionable and the people are continually being exposed to tjat which is appalling, abhorrent, and abominable. Obnoxious truly describes God's sheep exposed to harm.

I do not recognize this man as a brother. He is a wolf I pray will have his head chopped off in due time by an axman. “Give the Lord a good handclap.” “Shout Now!” “Now, you ain’t got NO husband to tell you what to do, but you got a PASTOR that’s gonna tell you what to do!” “You’re NOT equal to a man!” “You CAN’T TELL YOUR HUSBAND NOTHiN!”

What a sick scheme this man’s religion is! What a spiritually deceptive cover for the cruelest kinds of abuse! I had to listen to this filth in 30 second increments. It was very difficult to stomach, to absorb. I can not even imagine the profound horrors of having to perpetually sit under this man’s teachings, of being subjected to this mad monster’s manipulations and controls.

I honestly feel like I'm now gonna have to detox my head and heart after I've finished commenting here. Truly, I'm off to take a shower.

Woman i fear for your soul.. i dont go to that church but i have heard him preach.. and whether u believe it or not he was annointed and i would highly advise you to shut your running mouth being sarcastic that was Gods annointed irreguardless of if he didhad wrong u need to keep your mouth shut.. and for the record i am a woman as well not "bashing" you because you are a woman

Anonymous: Can you please tell me why you think this pastor is anointed? Especially since you say you didn't go to his church. How can one tell when a pastor is anointed?

I'm trying to wrap my head around how an anointed pastor could produce such bad fruit. Why are you giving a "man of God" license to run with his mouth, trash-talk women from the pulpit? Do you see this kind of behavior demonstrated by godly men in the Bible?

For the record, I don't think I will be shutting my "running mouth" anytime soon. I'm compelled to discuss this kind of crazy business where pastors treat people rudely, make their own legalistic rules and expect people to worship them instead of the Living God. Come on, now, sister! Let's be for real. Let's talk!

@Anonymous 2:42, There is a difference between "anointed" and "appointed". The man was not anointed. I highly advise you to open your ears to the Lord. If you have a Bible, I would suggest that you read it. The logos of God is more important than the logos of man.

Julie Anne, With pleasure!! My former pastor was often thought of as being anointed. He had no leaders above him, and no one pastored him. He was not sent out. He was accountable to no man. He claimed that no one but God is above him. He appointed himself. A novice, who one day said, "I think I am going to start a church."

To: Anonymous. What exactly does 'anointed' mean? If someone is truly anointed by the Spirit of the Living God, shouldn't their words, their behavior, and their ministry exalt and honor the Christ who called them?!

This is no where near being 'anointed by the Spirit of Christ'! Not even close!

Barb, this is indeed what some consider anointed preaching- and not just at the church where it happened. Even the style in which he speaks, with raising his voice and talking fast and being seemingly out of breath.

Young was very much regarding by some to be on fire for God and anointed and standing up for "truth," etc. Yet, it appears for years he was fooling around on the side if allegations are true. And, if they are true, then when this sermon was preached, falls during that time.

It will be very difficult for you and others to understand this manner of preaching and why it was accepted and believed.

Hi Lois, Thanks for your comments. I don't know about others, but I can speak for myself that I understand all too well this type of preaching and this type of belief system. The fruit speaks for itself.

It doesn't much matter how many people in their church group or denomination consider this to be 'anointed' preaching, if before God, it truly is not! All that glitters is NOT gold and this is true of too many church traditions that allow foolishness yet call it godliness.

Julie Anne is making an effort to expose what is 'called good' and allowing the rest of God's people the opportunity to speak into this situation.

Lois: This "touch not the anointed" thing is something that is across the board and denominations. Where did it come from? It seems to give a pastor a free license to behave any way he wants - - crazy stuff!

Barb: Yes, I asked Lois permission to borrow some of her material to use here. I've learned a lot.

The reason anonymous feels as they do, is a result of this type of preaching. Young taught the pastor was not to be questioned, but obeyed. You were not to say anything about a pastor unless it was something good. If you did not, then the pastor would tear into you and possibly label you as a lesbian or other things. You did not dare accuse the pastor of wrong doing. This isn't just found at Faith Tabernacle, but in similar churches. It is what helped create the atmosphere for abuse and even the alleged sexual situations.

Listen for yourself, in his own words, here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXYneDUk5Rc

I got the same fear comments on two of the videos posted. Like I stated there, no she bears will be heading my way.

I find it odd that many of the preachers in these circles rail against rock n roll. I believe Jim Morrison thought himself to be anointed (in some sense). They seem to share misogynistic lyrics and immoral lifestyles as well. Perhaps it's professional jealousy. The rock stars are better performers.

Interesting comment about rock stars. Have you watched the documentary, "Marjoe?" He had thoughts of being a rock star. So he incorporated into some of his preaching movements, things he saw rock stars do that he liked. Even a Mick Jagger move.

Anyone interested in watching the film, it is available for free on Google videos. Marjoe was an evangelist, taught to do so since being 3 or 4 years old, and never was a Christian. His parents had been involved in the Assemblies of God. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-178629120699935619

I was prepared for what was to come after the first blog on Edward Young. So I wasn't surprised. I braced for his tirade.

What is a "Lesbian Spirit"? That's a new twist. Any woman who opens her mouth at that church could have such spirit? Even if she is married and has children? Or maybe because she is not married, and has no man to tell her what to do.(ROFL) Because she opens her mouth in HIS church she has a "lesbian spirit"? Maybe that is another name for the "Jezebel Spirit" we hear about from other insane pastors.

Someone please post exactly what those two spirits are supposed to mean. OK for it to be funny or crazy. I like to make fun of the clowns who use this lingo. I want to update my Christianese Translator to keep it current.

"Anointed" was a common term I used to hear when I was involved with the AOG church. The louder the preacher yells and the more confusing it sounds to a "normal person", the more "anointed" he must be.

Hope this didn't sound too snarky JA. Dog is a little snarly today. I was nice though. I didn't call Young an idiot. (Even if I was thinking that.)

Monax-If no 'Wolf Spirit' we can MAKE one. The American Indians probably do believe in some kind of wolf spirit. But their wolf is not a "pulpit wolf". IMHO, some of those pastors are making it up as they go.

There are even demonic names taken or given that are not in the bible, you’ll find a Legion of names in the apocryphal, pseudopigraphal (see the books of Enoch), talmudic and kabbalistic writings.

I know the wolf spirit of the indians is different than the wolf idiomatic to bible readers, that is, the "wolf in sheep’s clothing"—i.e., false teacher, false prophet, false shepherd, agent of the adversary. “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works” (2 Corinthians 11:13-15).

Sheep-Dog, I do believe in demons, and understand that they can possess even born again Christians. But I believe some people go far beyond truth and reality when they, for instance, claim, as did a man to one of my former pastors, that his wife had a “shopping demon.”

I am not a big believer is this demon stuff. I know there are Biblical references. But IMHO they just didn't seem to have any better words to explain some things, such as illness 2000 years ago. I believe it to some degree, but I'm not buying it all.

I have heard of people praying loud in tongues over and laying hands on children who have diseases such as autism. They think the kid is demon possessed and try with all their might to cast it out. I can only guess that this would have to be repeated often, cause that old demon just don't seem to come out. The kid is still autistic when their little party is over.

I feel sorry for the poor little kid who has a NO demon, yet goes through a lot of emotional torment from the adults in the church trying to get that bad old thing to come out.

My wife has a "pack rat demon." lol

Not trying to diss you friend. Maybe I am looking at it differently than you are. You do make some good points. I'm surely not an expert in the field of demonology. I'm familiar with the story of Jesus casting out demons, where they go into the herd of swine. I think they all jump off a cliff. So if the swine died, where did the demons go then? Did they just up and vanish? If so, why waste the swine? Why did Jesus send them into animals?

It's OK not to answer these questions. I doubt if there are any good answers.

I guess I'm in trouble then... I have "side-swept bangs" and curly strands... Did he say anything about high-lights or low-lights? Cause if he did, I'm in trouble there too... Somehow, I just don't care. What's he going to do? Sue me? Been there, had that done to me. :P

LOL- glad you still have a sense of humor after all you have been through!

You and your mom would be in trouble just because you both cut your hair. So you would have been in trouble before considering what hairstyle you might have. Women are never to cut or trim their hair there (and in many other Apostolic churches). No changing of your hair color there, either.

Open Minded, I know that this subject can be difficult to look into when one has been taught it for years. I did an in depth study on it before I left the United Pentecostal Church. I published some of that on the website here: http://www.spiritualabuse.org/hair.html Perhaps it will be helpful to you.

I attend an Apostolic church in another state and I am familiar with the Youngs. I have heard him preach at our church on more than one occasion and it appeared at the time, that he was trying to follow the spirit of God. I do have reservations however, about the "rudeness" of his sermons and do not believe that you can rule by law only, and not by the Spirit. The Word of God does state that ... "the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life". There is structure in God's word and God expects things to be done "decently and in order", but with a Spirit of harshness and rudeness, I have my doubts, and even more now, that the Holy Ghost was in much of that. After twelve years in the Apostolic church, it has caused a lot of marital problems for me since my husband left the church two years ago, living like the devil, and blames me for "not submitting" to him as the woman should the man, and so on. My thoughts on this are..... Submission is given through love and respect one toward another. Live by example not by an iron fist, and maybe I will see something I want and desire to submit to. After all, "the man" is supposed to be the "Spiritual Leader" of our home, but the burden has been left to me. Only God know!!

Husbands are supposed to love wives as Christ loves the church. That is what it says in the Bible. It seems there are some husbands who seem to miss that part of scripture for some reason or another. This can create a troubled marriage. I'm sorry to hear you have gone through this . . . very, very sorry. My heart goes out to you, Anonymous.

Christ died for the church. I once told a man I dated that when he told me to SUBMIT! He stammered for a minute. He wanted to see the reference. "There, right there with the verse you quoted at me." We didn't date much after that...

Anonymous, I went to Faith Tabernacle. And I left Faith Tabernacle. Best decision I could have made. If someone crossed him or one of the ones he preferred, he could be-and too often was-cruel.

Biblical submission does NOT mean mindlessly obeying, silently accepting wrongs, or enduring abuses-including the type of disrespect you seem to indicate above. It isn't your fault your husband lives the way he does. It is his decision. No one is making him do what he does but himself.

wow im apostolic and i dont understand all of u.....u bash us and yet u know nothing about us......yes one of our preachers turned out to be an idiot but we r all human and make mistakes, and im not justifying him because wat the youngs did was horrible but not all of us are that way and def not all the preachers so dont judge us by one mistake...... i feel sorry for u all because of ur ignorance and stupidity....if i was to judge your religion like u do ours u would be mad as well.....o and by the way judging is a sin....but no matter what u have to say u will find out the truth on judgement day and when u are left with the rest of the world in the end times and we have gone then u will want to listen......sad

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My Story in a Nutshell

I began this blog in Feb. 2012 after noticing that the Google reviews I had posted of my former church were being removed. Days after the commencement of this blog, I received a legal summons suing me and three others for defamation to the tune of $500,000.
The story of spiritual abuse needs to be told. People are being hurt emotionally and spiritually by pastors who use bully tactics and we need a place to learn, to talk freely, and to heal. I will not be silenced.
****Update: 7/26/12 Case was dismissed. We won!
See my new blog: www.SpiritualSoundingBoard.com