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Friday, January 6, 2012

A pertinent question

A commenter at Susan's asks what is a very useful question, given that women have a much harder time detecting players than their fellow men do:

What are some strategies for women to weed out men who have had many partners? How can you tell?

First, ask him. If he’s smoothly evasive and doesn’t actually mention any quantity while changing the subject or flipping the frame onto you, he’s almost surely a player of some degree. If he’s not that experienced, he’ll generally be awkward and overly explanatory, going into strange details about this and that girlfriend, trying to determine what counts and what doesn't. In general, if you’re left feeling halfway embarrassed for the guy, you’re safe. If you find yourself realizing half an hour later that you never got an actual answer, you’re screwed. So to speak.

Perhaps the best example of this sort of non-answer was when Charles and Diana were asked if they were in love. She said: “Of course!” He said: “What is love?” and smoothly deflected the interviewer. If you get a “what is love” sort of philosophical answer, you’re probably in over your head. If you’re really unlucky, you’ll run into a Dark Gamer who will pull a Yohami on you. “Love love love, let’s bring this dream home.” Nothing you can do about that.

Second, ask your male friends, particularly those you are confident are not interested in you. Men's radar for these things is vastly superior to women's; we tend to see right through the sorcerous BS that so enthralls women.

42 comments:

modernguy
said...

Its easy, for the most part, if he's attractive, he's no good. So whatever your feelings are telling you, do the opposite. It's not the man you have to learn to distrust, it's yourself. That is, if you're interested in long term benefit. If not, by all means give in to your feelings. With men, with money, with food. The principle is the same.

Considering everything expounded on game up to now, I see the following being how things will work out.

If the girl is left halfway embarrassed by the guy's answer then the guy will lose the girl because his answer just killed the tingle. This is regardless of who the girl is. He's toast. She may trust him to help move her furniture but not to get her freak on.

There is one exception this scenario, she may have a bad case of baby rabies and she may marry the poor guy but he ain't gonna be getting any regular sex after that. So thanks a lot Vox. You just damned some poor beta schlub to a sexless marriage. I say this only half tongue in cheek.

Back in my days of maximum beta I would have answered the question in the most straightforward manner possible after asking a question of my own. "Are you sure you want to know?" Assuming she said yes, I'd then flap my gums for several minutes too long.

Following my gum flapping there would be an awkward silence because I would pointedly fail to ask the obvious follow up question of my own; "How many men have you had intercourse with?, because I didn't want to know.

Nowadays, I'd tell her, "None of your damn business unless you were my wife and even then you would be better off not knowing." So where does that answer fit on the alpha-beta continuum?

Back in my days of maximum beta I would have answered the question in the most straightforward manner possible after asking a question of my own. "Are you sure you want to know?" Assuming she said yes, I'd then flap my gums for several minutes too long.

Classic.

"None of your damn business unless you were my wife and even then you would be better off not knowing." So where does that answer fit on the alpha-beta continuum?

High BETA. You're still justifying yourself to her. The only possible ALPHA answers are to a) laugh at her, or b) tell her the truth as near as you can recall it.

And (b) should be followed up with a reassuring "don't worry, I've had my shots".

Contra the spinning hamster declarations, no woman has ever refused to have sex with a man because his bodycount was too high. Now, she may have used it as an excuse, but in that case, she wasn't going to have sex with him anyhow.

Women put men in the yes/maybe/no box almost instantly. And if a man is in the instant yes box, there is virtually nothing he can do to move out of it. I don't care if he's gay, married, diseased, and socially radioactive, you can always trust an attracted woman to find a way to rationalize the sex. It's what they do best.

from the comments at Susan's some women would eliminate me based on that answer.

No, they wouldn't. They say they would, which is something else entirely. The assertion is no more credible than the notion that a woman will provide you with an accurate bodycount when asked, unless she has a very low one and is not afraid of being judged on it.

I repeat: no woman has ever refused to have sex with a man because his bodycount was too high.

Roissy has described the real reason that some lower status women turn down higher status men: they think they are being mocked. That's precisely why he advises ALPHAS to put on a BETA face when slumming.

Hmm. My wife already knew it about me, and insisted on me getting tested. Although I'd been careful, I was curious myself, so I also wanted to make sure no one had given a permanent gift. I got her phone number in the middle of a date with her friend.

That was an interesting night. A Brazilian doctor versus a Japanese nurse. The psycho doctor ultimately lost, but that's almost the hardest a$$hole game I ever ran on someone, and it only made her cling even tighter.

When I was asked that question, I would use some variation on "That's pretty complicated to answer". I have to say that answer only works for a little while. I found that it only fed the hamster.

As Vox says, a man with experience is unlikely to answer directly. When my wife (fiance at that time) finally insisted, I went to the old standby of "define partner, please. Does that mean full penetration, with mutual orgasm, just fooling around, heavy petting, penetration without orgasm, just oral, or what? Does it count if we weren't in love, or in a relationship? Because if you insist on all of the above, this could take awhile for me to figure out. But you know, I'd really rather not think about them too much, I'd rather think about you!"

That last sentence I guess was a little "dark", implying that my relationship with her was something unique, and everything before her was just practice for the real thing.

When she finally arrived a some definition, I basically implied that it was in the 10+ range, but without giving a specific number. That way, she can satisfy the hamster that it was only 10, maybe 11 including herself, but always have that bit of doubt that it might be 30, 40, or more.

Prince Charles probably thought that was a stupid and undignified question; he was basically telling the reporter to get bent.

Unlikely. The only way it would be a stupid question is because it is assumed to be obvious that the husband is in love with his wife. And "what is love?" takes the exact opposite route - it implies that there are definitions of "in love" that are not true of their relationship.

Woman (all tingly because the guy she's on a date with put her hamster in overdrive but she wants to make sure he isn't a player and is going to use her for a pump and dump): How many women have you slept with?

Man (who has a player attitude but has a low body count due to religious convictions and is actually looking for a real relationship): Just two.

Woman (realizing the guy she is with is actually a scrub despite outward appearances whereby she, no longer receiving validation from being chosen by a guy who gets any girl he wants, loses interest): Oh.

Absolutely. The current legal climate has directly resulted in women being more likely to lie their way into a relationship than a man does, simply because it is in her best interest to do so, often to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I'm not saying men never lie to get into a marriage, obviously some do, but it is not as common sense a woman can punish him severely for doing so. In the reverse, men have absolutely no recourse.

@Desert Cat said... Better not to say if the number is low also...__________

Probably best not to say a number at all. If they are into you, the decisions as to whether they will accept your history has largely been made and all that is left is weighing any "facts" in such a manner as to rationalize their decision... the explanation their hamster will spit out will probably be better than anything a man could confess or make up.

On the other hand, if you seem to be someone they rationally should be into but aren't, the decision to reject you has been made... any answer you give will be ground up and spit out by the hamster to rationalize the decision.

That's why in chick flicks, which is emotional porn for women, women commonly have a choice between a nice dependable beta they aren't attracted to and an aloof detached alpha bastard they are attracted to. There is always a moment when the constantly kind beta does something to reveal his true poor character, and a moment where the constantly cruel alpha reveals his true wonderful character... the decision was made, all that was needed was the justification.

Remember, in the case of female attraction, it is the decision that leads to the facts, not the facts that lead to the decision.

And no, I'm not a bitter gamma. I'm a happily married father of two gorgeous twin daughters. It's nearly impossible to for a man to have a happy marriage with an American woman if he is oblivious to the side of women's nature that is not all "sugar and spice."

Probably best not to say a number at all. If they are into you, the decisions as to whether they will accept your history has largely been made and all that is left is weighing any "facts" in such a manner as to rationalize their decision... the explanation their hamster will spit out will probably be better than anything a man could confess or make up.

Bingo. Don't fall for the disqualification attempts. Remember, women perceive answering their questions as being subordinate. Flip the frame.

Back in my single days when I got around quite a bit, my answer to questions about my history was typically something like "what happens in vegas..." Worked well... was a refusal to answer the question, a subtle seed planted that any rendezvous would be kept secret, and a blank page allowing them to write the story themselves. Worked quite well.

Another effective response when women would bring up foreplay instead of sex as a gauge would be "it is better to give than to receive."

Women prefer fantasy to reality, and objective facts and being to specific get in the way of that.

I was a virgin when I met my Husband. He initially tried to say a "few" but after I demanded details he said "NO!" I got mad and cried. So he said "ok, first the girl who corrupted me..." then I told him to stop and started crying more.

I have asked him a few more times and he either sneers at me and smacks my butt or laughs and changes the subject.

This terrifying!

I don't know if I can read here anymore. When I brought some of the subject matter up to him he said "don't waste your time".

I didn't get the "how many" question when I was single. Well, not until after going on several dates with a girl and sleeping with her.

I asked my wife why she never asked me the question until after we had slept together several times and she replied that she always just assumed that it was more than what she wanted to know. The fact that she assumed that I had been with too many women didn't stop her from sleeping with me, although she swears that guys with too many partners and "gross" and she doesn't understand these women who want to get with "skanky men."

I love my wife but I never forget that her hampster is in peak physical condition.

This is part of what I don't get about Game. It is founded on assumptions that are not necessarily so for everyone.

Depending on how a woman was raised and trained, she may be looking for a man who has saved himself for her. Assuming she has half an ounce of self control and discipline (which are never in born to either man or woman but always trained in from experience), she _should_ be able to handle the question correctly.

That said, I think there is a lot to be said for keeping young women out of one-on-one social situations with young men exactly because of failures in self control and discipline on both parties' parts.

There is definitely an argument to be made to keep young women out of certain environments and situations precisely because women don't have self control - when they are in the presence of an Alpha male. Women's 'self-control' is largely an illusion. Not giving in to 'urges' is easy when surrounded by Betas.

It's a bit like not giving in to my non-existent urge to eat a lot of broccoli.

Basically, it's not enough to raise daughters right. There has to be restrictions. Quite simply, the old rules were there for womens protection. By dismantling them, women have thrown themselves to the Wolves.

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