But the justice system is very flawed and many people get away with crimes and people are locked up and executed for crimes they didn’t commit and agh what is the difference between these two “systems of justice” anyway, really, really, really?

Coming out of semi-retirement to say that I don’t see the ethical problem with resorting to vigilante violence against someone who murdered a child even if the ideology behind the action ostensibly goes against capital D Democracy.

I don’t think you can be an island and a continent at the same time, that’s why there’s a distinction.

Like, Australia has its own tectonic plate and everything. I think other (non-volcanic) islands are little break-aways from existing tectonic plates. But how big can a break be before it constitutes its own continent? I think Australia. Australia is that big.

Well, again, I think that joke is a different category because it’s not making fun/light of rape (which is what I mean by “rape joke.”) I think part of its absurdity is a)the idea of having sex with a painting, let alone forcing a painting to have sex, because lolwut b) the absurdity of getting all huffy and outraged about nudity in art when things like rape happen every day and c) the absurdity of thinking that a nude breast is enough to drive someone into a rapacious, sexual frenzy (which believe it or not is an extemely common idea today, i.e. “If you don’t want to get raped, don’t dress like a slut.” because men just can’t help themselves! They have to rape!)

So I think that joke is basically okay because it has deeper meaning and is commenting on people’s attitudes towards sex, nudity, sexual violence, and sexuality. It’s not saying “rape is funny” or “rape is no big deal” or “it’s okay to rape someone if X Y and Z.” That’s what’s problematic about rape jokes and why they aren’t okay.

Facetaco, if you’re not black, you can’t use the n-word affectionately. If you’re not a queer male, you can’t use faggot affectionately. If you’re not a queer female, you can’t use the word dyke positively. That’s it. I don’t think that’s really complicated.

Also, lol, discrimination.

“Why can’t I use this word that’s been used to systematically hurt and oppress and dehumanize you if you can wahhhhh discrimination wahhhhh.” – You

No, actually, I meant my first paragraph as well. I think what you’re talking about it not what I’m referring to. Making fun of Whoopi’s rape-rape thing is making fun of people’s ridiculous, weird attitudes about rape (like how it’s not really rape if it’s just an adult and an underage child barffffffffffff) whereas rape jokes and joking remarks remarks (“Dude, I totally raped that test!” “Watch out, man, you don’t want to be on the receiving end of SURPRISE SEX!”) make fun of the act itself and make it into something light and commonplace, when really it’s horrific and very serious. So there’s a distinction between the two. One is constructive by pointing out wrong and harmful ideas, the other is just repugnant and not okay.

Yeah, except there’s more to words than what the individual intends to mean by them. You may mean “faggot” in the Louis CK sense of “someone whiny and prissy” and not a gay man, but that doesn’t change the fact that that word in of itself has a huge history of bigotry in this society, that’s still in use today. Even if you don’t have homophobic intentions, the word faggot does. It’s still a slur.
And if you’re not part of the group that it applies to, you don’t get to reclaim it or use it at all.

See, here’s why that doesn’t matter, and why making jokes about horrible things like rape and anti-gay violence isn’t okay. For example, even though a comedian’s #1 priority in telling a rape joke is to get people to laugh, that is not the only thing he’s doing. His words are also expressing the idea that rape is not that serious and reinforcing that notion. And that’s a terrible notion! And it does real damage to real people, and it contributes to our collective desensitization to rape and violence, and that’s not okay, and it doesn’t get a free pass from taking responsibility just because it’s comedy.

Tracy Morgan may say a lot of ridiculous, sometimes offensive things. That’s okay. Offense is okay. People are entitled to their ridiculous opinions. But when those opinions harm other people (i.e. queer people) and if you get on stage and start spouting hateful things about murdering gay people you are contributing to the idea in this society that being gay is wrong and disgusting, and you are giving weight to the sadly not-too-uncommon idea that gay people are worse than straight people and therefore it’s okay to discriminate against them, attack them, and kill them.

There’s a difference between offensive things and oppressive things. Saying something outrageous that may hurt someone’s feelings is offensive, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Some people deserve it (I’m looking at you, Sarah Palin.) However, saying something that contributes to violence and bigotry against a group of people is oppressive, and that just isn’t okay in any way.

Words have a lot of weight and meaning, and you can’t ignore that for the sake of comedy.

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