"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

Curious if any of you have watched the 1980 Olympia. I have seen a few pictures of Mentzer at the 80 Olympia and he looked in great shape. THe picture of Mentzer on page 166 of High Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way looks like a statue of a greek god or something. Amazing. Anyway, I know he had never gotten over losing and didn't Arnold enter at the last minute or something? I wonder if it would be worth it to buy it. Like to hear your thoughts on that controversial 80 Olympia.

More objectively speaking, Mike was criticized for letting his gut hang out more and more as the day progressed. When he held in it though, he looked awesome. Supposedly, Arnold said something to Mike about "letting your big belly hang out" and Mike was ready to kill him.

If you see photos of Arnold from the front, his calves are as wide as his quads (good calves by genetics, no quads from insufficient preparation), his pecs were droopier than ever, and he's nowhere near cut up.

I've often thought about getting thta DVD. I wonder how much backstage brouhaha we really get to see on that.

I have this video and I admit that I am a HUGE Arnold fan (all round) but I am a Mentzer fan when it comes to the 80 Olympia and bodybuilding science. I have watched it many times and as much as I love Arnie, Mike had him. His condition was superb. Mike does look better when standing on his own though because when you see him standing beside someone like Arnold he does seem to appear "small" in comparison. I think it was 200lbs Vs 225+ or something wasn't it? If Arnold his his all toime best at 240 Mike would have been in big trouble though.

What I did notice about Mike (I hope I get this to sound right) is what I "didn't" notice. Everything on him was just perfect. Huge arms that flowed into huge delts that tied beautifully into a great chect and so on. With Arnold you tend to go wow he's big, great arms, big back but as I watched again and again you have trouble picking out Mikes best part like you do with Arnie. He was just awesome all over and that is what a Mr Olympia is all about.

I have the video! The video is OK! Not great. Mentzer did indeed look good! He had great taper. His butt was too big, and his hamstrings were lacking. His overhead triceps/abdominal vacuum pose was the most awesome pose of the contest. He seemed to have trouble holding his poses. He seemed to shake while holding poses. He did not seem to smile alot.

Mentzer was of the Nautilus camp. The video stated there was a relationship betweeen Arthur Jones and Mentzer. He was on Weider territory at this contest! If Arthur Jones had held the Mr. Nautilus contest (which he never did), do you think Arnold Swartznegger(if he had been entered) would have won! Perhaps if Mike Mentzer would just have trained in HIT fashion, and, more importantly, gave the credit to Joe Weider, he might have won. But, some folks will not compromise their integrity. Personally, I think Frank Zane looked the best! A liitle small perhaps.

marcrph wrote:
I have the video! The video is OK! Not great. Mentzer did indeed look good! He had great taper. His butt was too big, and his hamstrings were lacking. His overhead triceps/abdominal vacuum pose was the most awesome pose of the contest. He seemed to have trouble holding his poses. He seemed to shake while holding poses. He did not seem to smile alot.

Mentzer was of the Nautilus camp. The video stated there was a relationship betweeen Arthur Jones and Mentzer. He was on Weider territory at this contest! If Arthur Jones had held the Mr. Nautilus contest (which he never did), do you think Arnold Swartznegger(if he had been entered) would have won! Perhaps if Mike Mentzer would just have trained in HIT fashion, and, more importantly, gave the credit to Joe Weider, he might have won. But, some folks will not compromise their integrity. Personally, I think Frank Zane looked the best! A liitle small perhaps.

Marc

You can say a lot of things about Arthur Jones, but if you think he would rig a contest , you are wrong.

I think that contest was the start of bodybuilding going downhill,If you werent swayed by weiders PR,you could see that in the next few years after that, most of the top BBers quit competing .

Then weider tried to bring in awhole new crop of unknowns in his mag,and promote them as BB stars.After that deal i lost all respect for Arnie.Over the years,i had read several articles that a wealthy gay german that arnold lived with payed his way to the U.S.,also i attended a siminar years ago by a former olympia competitor,not mentzer by the way.

and this guy was asked by a member of the audience what it takes to win the olympia ,And the BBer told the crowd you have to bendover for weider a few times.And if youve ever spent much time in L.A. its pretty much common knowledge what most of your actors do to get in the movie biz.

There is no doubt in my mind that a Mr. Nautilus contest, sponsored by Arthur Jones, would have been a fair contest. But, there is the human element in judging to deal with. A Mr. Nautilus contest would indeed have been interesting.

ron33 wrote:
[EDITED]...Over the years,i had read several articles that a wealthy gay german that arnold lived with payed his way to the U.S.,...and this guy was asked by a member of the audience what it takes to win the olympia ,And the BBer told the crowd you have to bendover for weider a few times...
I doubt he meant it literally (bending over for Joe). I know you had to be a total Weider Stepford Bodybuilder and kiss his ass (also not literally either), but that was it.

I do remember a semi-humorous column Mike wrote once warning aspiring bodybuilders about "Stage Door Johnnies" as he called them.

The problem I have with bodybuilding as a sport is that it is subjective. It seems more a case of finding out who likes the same sweet the most. The red sweet might be the best, but most people like the black sweet so that wins. But then how can you prove the red sweet is best anyway ?

Its like gymnastics its nice to watch, but the end result is not as satisfying as say a sprint where 9 times out of ten there is no doubt who the winner is.

Another, thing I like bodybuilding as sport to do but not to watch. Atleast in to a lesser degree than other sports. I would find a Darts match on TV better viewing. The closest thing I can think of to bodybuilding I enjoy watching, is strongman contests. Even if on average the contestants largest muscle is their gut.

Now lets see if anyone can convince me bodybuilding is not subjective sport.

rtestes wrote:
I would have given Zane the prize followed by Coe, Mentzer, and Dickerson then Arnold thay year. Sure, it is subjective, always has been.

To prove your point, Zane has always been too small in my opinion and should never have won the Olympia. Coe , as great as he is , has many flaws in comparison to Mentzer but I agree that Dickerson should have placed ahead of Shwarzenneger that year. As an aside I have an old IronMan where Zane is bigger but very smooth, if you can believe it.

Frank Zane was a great bodybuilder. Classic symmetry was what he possessed. Sure, he was not the biggest bodybuilder, but he was very strong. His symmetry was greater than any other bodybuilder on stage the night of Mr. Olympia circa 1980. Chris Dickerson is not noted for mass either, and has non-symmetrical pectoral muscles. Looks like Chris had a pectoral tear at one time. Mentzer, Coe do not possess Zane's symmetry.

Finally, and perhaps most controversial, a quest for more massive bodybuilders has been a contributing factor in the morass that bodybuilding finds itself in. I last attended a bodybuilding contest in Atlanta, Ga, Mr. something-or-the-other, in which Matt Mendenhall competed. He was of note then (somewhere in the mid to late 1980's). Even though he brought the house down with applause from his terrific shape and symmetry and good looks, Gary Strydom won with more mass and better cuts, and much less audience appeal. Perhaps one day, bodybuilding will be about enhancing the looks of the male physique.

This should not always mean more mass and more cuts. I detest what bodybuilding has become. I also detest what the bodybuilding magazines have become. Bodybuilding has once again become a cult activity. The young and inexperienced trainees are taken advantage of at every turn. Enough of this ranting and raving on this reply!

marcrph wrote:
... I detest what bodybuilding has become. I also detest what the bodybuilding magazines have become. Bodybuilding has once again become a cult activity. The young and inexperienced trainees are taken advantage of at every turn. Enough of this ranting and raving on this reply!

Marc

It is ranting and raving but it is damn true; I want nothing to do with 'pro bodybuilding'; what you see now is disgusting - not beautiful physiques as it was intended.

Most folks look at ALL bodybuilders with disdain. Especially women. It is not just PRO bodybuilders who are out of the mainstream. Pick up a FLEX magazine at your local supermarket, and browse through it while other people are there looking at other types of magazines. You will then know what I say is true.

Furthermore, bodybuilders dress like smucks, pink tights, sandals, and a tank-top will not draw any rave reviews. I bet Steve Reeves did not dress like that in public. Arthur Jones stated disdain for bodybuilders. I now know why he felt like he did.

I agree with everything thats said about bodybuilding,anyone who tries to win these pro contests now with all the drugs they have to take must be a complete idiot.I think its funny when you see guys out in public that are obviousley all juiced up, and they have their cocky attitudes like they are something special,and everyone knows their on roids and they try to say they eat right and take vitamins.HA!HA!HA! I remember back in the early 80s when a local BBer was trying to win a local contest and he told me he had spent $6000 to try and win a $20 trophy and then had to take female hormones to get his own hormones to kick back in,I thought man thats nuts just so you can tell people your MR.something or other

I have the same disdain for bodybuilding these days as you guys do. In the gym I was working at there were a couple local bb's who trained 6 days a week 2hrs a day minimum. Yeah they were big and strong, and they were also juicing. I knew one of the guys ex girlfriends and she confirmed they were roidheads. I didn't need her to confirm it though. Their attitude, and the freaky acne that would appear and disappear were pretty good signs they were juicing.

Crazy, one of these days they are going to be informed by a physician that they have cystic tumors in their kidneys. Will they ask themselves if it was worth it?

There is plenty of evidence that proves the detrimental effects of short and long term steroid abuse. I think it is a big mistake to jepordize your health for an often fleeting and often minor improvement in appearance. Just to make my full position known , I think that steroids and growth hormone should be legal. It is your body and if you want to destroy it for a spurious reason , that should be your choice , not mine , or societies. If I am forced to pay for your health care by the federal or state governement , then that is a different story.
In any case , there was far less abuse and little or no damage being done by counterfits when it was legal. Also organized crime is the only real beneficiary of criminalizing any drug, not society.

Just to let you know where i stand, Ive never taken steroids and dont plan to.
I have no problem with ppl taking them.
The fact that its illegal is ridiculous.
It was made illegal despite that The American Medical Association, Department of health and human services and the drug enforcement agency all opposed the move.
Why is that?
Because with normal use there is no life threatening side effects.
Ive been researching this for a little bit, and there is no clinical evidence, just a heap of bullshit stories.
The main issue is abuse and and women and teenagers using.

What do you deem normal use of steroids? I know there are instances where medically steroids can be useful. But do you believe that bodybuilders use steroids normally? Also, are you really denying the potential harmful effects of steroids?

Like someone said, there are those that smoke their entire lives and die in their sleep of natural causes. But does that mean smoking is healthy? The chief engineer at chernobyl was exposed to 500 rads and lived on to die of a heart attack years later. WHile most of his co workers died days after the disaster of radiation poisioning. Because the chief engineer survived does that mean it would be safe to expose yourself to that much radiation?