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Wednesday, December 03, 2008

WAS ZIONIST ACTIVIST DAN KLIMAN MURDERED?

Not according the SF Police.

Quote:"But as San Francisco police combed over the evidence Tuesday, investigators said this is what appears to have happened: Dr. Daniel J. Kliman, an Alameda physician and one of the Bay Area's foremost pro-Israel activists, stepped into an open elevator shaft by accident last week and died."

Quote:"the building's manager insists the door must have been secured.The elevator in that shaft was out of order at the time, building manager Brad Bernheim said. By design, doors to a malfunctioning elevator are clamped shut and can be opened only by a mechanic, said Erika Monterroza, spokeswoman for Cal/OSHA."[SOURCE: same as above.]

There are suspicions that it was an opportunistic hate crime, though Police Inspector Matt Krimsky wishes to dismiss that possibility.

QUOTE:"There is no indication of any foul play at this point, even though I've been getting calls from conspiracy theorists from everywhere, even someone who said they had information from a séance"[SOURCE: same as above.]

He is supported in his 'doubts' by Penny Rosenwasser, a national board member of Jewish Voice for Peace who asserts: "I can't imagine anyone I know doing something like that".[SOURCE: same as above.]

I CAN IMAGINE SOMEONE YOU KNOW DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT!

Penny, in several years of being on the pro-Israel side in the Bay Area, we have been threatened, punched, pushed, kicked, and spat on. ALL of us in SF Voice for Israel have experienced such things. Many of us have been followed. All of us have been photographed and insulted.The amount of hatred which is evident at many anti-Israel events is outrageous. I can very well imagine someone you know, Penny, doing anything like that. I can think of several people on the other side who would jump at the opportunity.

The atmosphere created in the Bay Area by the anti-Israel side is such that it is very easy to imagine an opportunistic attack. Those who in a sense of misguided "fairness" vociferate for the Palestinians, support and nourish extremists. Never more so than when, in "solidarity" with their Palestinian brothers and sisters, they stand alongside protestors yelling 'death to the Jews' in Arabic, or promising at the top of their bull-horned lungs to wipe Israel off the map.

Don't lie, Penny. Your type have indeed stood there. You did not object. You did not say anything more balanced and rational to counterweigh the rabid anti-Semitism of your comrades. Nor did you stop them yelling their homicidal hatred. You were proud to stand with Al Awda, International Answer, and supporters of Hamas and Hezbollah.

Jewish Voice For Peace, Bay Area Women In Black, and similar patsy organizations, are the enablers of anti-Semitism in this part of the world. Students for Justice in Palestine, Al Awda, and International Answer thrive on the encouragement they receive from such groups.If Dan was murdered, you are all guilty of that murder.

NOTORIOUS ZIONIST FOUND DEAD UNDER SUSPICIOUS CIRCUMSTANCES

There are excellent reasons for doubting that Dan Kliman's death was entirely accidental.

As follows:*Dan was very well-known to the other side, his picture was posted on several sites identifying him as a Zionist "conspirator" and one of the lead-activists in the Bay Area.*He had received several death-threats over the years - he was known by name and address.*The pro-Palestinian side has often either used violence or threatened to do so - Dan was assaulted several times.*The building where he was found was where he was taking Arabic classes; there were NO classes that week.*Several members of the other side also take Arabic classes - that is one of the few schools in the area where Arabic is taught, and there is a constantly changing roster of Israel-haters studying Arabic there.*The defective elevator had been secured so no one could enter it.

I am not going to jump to any conclusions just yet. But I am almighty curious.

And until the police PROVE that it was an accident, I have to suspect that Dan was jumped by pro-Palestinian opportunists, who knew who he was, that the building was nearly empty, and that they would not soon have so excellent a chance to "get that Zionist".

Dan was hated. And he was alone in a place frequented by many of his enemies.

27 Comments:

The mysterious death of a well known pro-Israel activist in what is argueably the most Israel-hating part of the United States is certainly more than suspicious.

IndyBay's feature on him from several years ago was a deliberate hatchet job, which only served to make his face known and put his life in danger. As such, Indybay is possibly co-guilty of murder, certainly guilty of incitement and abetting.

Yes, Dan was hated. Not only by the Arabs at SF State and Berkeley, but also by such fuzzy feel-good asshole groups as women in black, alawda, the entire frikkin' northern California peace group activists, and several bigots and antisemites in San Francisco.

It was probably local San Franciscans who saw him that night and decided to attack him. Prying open an elevator door is hard work. Requires at least two people. And who the hell pries open a non-functioning elevator and then says "hey, let me just step into this dark pit, surely that's an elevator right there in TOTAL FRIKKIN' DARKNESS"!

The building engineer said it was impossible, the cops say it actually happened that way. Who is lying?

I'll bet the building managers took every precaution to prevent possible law suits. At the least, they truned off the power to that shaft and put up signs.

I'm concerned that the police are so sure Dan's death was not a homicide. I know they have evidence that he was inside the elevator, but how can they be so sure he wasn't pushed out?

How did he get into the elevator? I hope more details are forth-coming. I also know that politically, Gavin Newsom's administration does not want to have over 100 murders in the City of SF so there is pressure to rule this death accidental entirely independent of the evidence.

"I am not going to jump to any conclusions just yet", but you are already naming several organizations, and even tagging some of their names to the post, without any proof that this was murder, and certainly without any proof that any of them had any connection to what happened. If a pro-Palestine activist had died somewhere, would it be ok to drag SF Voice for Peace's name into it without a shread of proof? We should all encourage the police to conduct a proper investigation, but spreading rumors and allegations doesn't strike me as the right way to go.

but you are already naming several organizations, and even tagging some of their names to the post

Reading is not your strength, is it?

Quote: The atmosphere created in the Bay Area by the anti-Israel side is such that it is very easy to imagine an opportunistic attack. Those who in a sense of misguided "fairness" vociferate for the Palestinians, support and nourish extremists. Never more so than when, in "solidarity" with their Palestinian brothers and sisters, they stand alongside protestors yelling 'death to the Jews' in Arabic, or promising at the top of their bull-horned lungs to wipe Israel off the map.

AND:

Jewish Voice For Peace, Bay Area Women In Black, and similar patsy organizations, are the enablers of anti-Semitism in this part of the world. Students for Justice in Palestine, Al Awda, and International Answer thrive on the encouragement they receive from such groups.

I mentioned all of those organizations because they have increased the viciousness of the rhetoric and they have increased hatred and anti-Semitism.

If it was murder, those groups created the atmosphere in which that murder happened, and ramped up the hatred so that it could happen.

Those organizations are all riddled with ignorance, bigotry, self-righteousness, and organized anti-Semitism. As has been confirmed, many times, at all the events they have organized or taken part in.

sir, I never knew Dan Kliman: I heard he was beloved to several communities and I sincerely hope that if this was intentional, the responsible persons should be found and punished. All I'm saying is that hurling false allegations is not a solution. At least two of the organizations you mentioned were never involved in organized anti-semitism, bigotry, etc. I don't think this is the time for a heated argument, so I will leave it there.

Whether they were actively involved in organized anti-Semitism is neither the point nor stated. I am saying that they contribute, in some measure knowingly, to the anti-Semitic atmosphere in the Bay Area.

Nor am I saying that those organizations were involved in this case. If someone did it, he/she/they may be members of one or several of those organizations, or might just be on the same side.

My personal sense is that it can very well have been a crime of opportunity by 'unaffiliated' elements who recognized the chance to 'get' a notorious pro-Israel activist or Jew. And without much thought, proceeded to do precisely that.

That said, there are also people on the other side whom I can imagine being horrified at this having happened. Even some who would be saddened. [In particular, I'm thinking of an middle-aged gentleman with horrid taste in headgear, and a few Arab-Americans who thoroughly enjoyed screaming all kinds of bloody murder at us with the most cheerfully Irish of grins on their faces. The street-theatre aspect meant much more to them than the content of the rhetoric.]

You will undoubtedly recognize the faces of members of Women in Black, Jewish Voice for Peace, Students for Justice in Palestine, and International Answer in the photos, as well as sincere supporters of human rights, fair treatment for tofurkys, and freedom for little hamsters in the happy throng of pro-Palestinian peaceniks.As well as, without a doubt, members of your church.

It is not by any means a stretch to imagine the bunch with the Pally ragflag killing someone. They would probably have tried to do so at that event, but cops and cameras brought them to their admittedly scant senses.

Oh, and I nearly forgot to mention - the ANSWER coalition was there in force. With signs just for the event. Supporting Hamas and Hezbollah. Whose listing as terrorists is of course a mistake. Because they are actually culturally appropriate equivalents of the Red Cross and the Knights of Malta.

Just like ANSWER is a legitimate peace movement.

Assuming, for a moment, that promoting a brutal uprising against the establishment can be considered a peace platform.

I agree with the writers who think that there could be more to this than meets the eye. The Bay Area is probably the worst place in the country to be pro-Israel, and ranks with Paris and London for intolerance of Jews. I do not feel safe being openly Jewish here. And I feel accutely threatened by some of the anti-Israel fanatics. The university campuses are especially dangerous.

And then there's this guy:http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/05/31/18503182.php?show_comments=1#18503972(commenter Joseph Anderson, 2x)

With people like Joseph Anderson around, no Jew is safe; he is a vile and despicable racist and bigot, and thick as thieves with Jess Ghanem and Wendy Campbell.

suzycat, I was present at the 2006 protest you are referring to. It was held at the hight of the recent war in Lebanon. There were legitimate reasons to oppose what the Israeli government was doing (e.g. opposition to the high rate of civilian deaths), and also illegitimate reasons (such as anti-semitism).

It's difficult to hold an open protest at a very emotional and tense time and to screen the protestors to make sure they express the right message. Many of us left that rally disappointed and hurt that our legitimate protest had been tarnished by anti-semitic slogans. Personally, I haven't been to the City for a political rally since then, for that very reason. Having said that, not every criticism of the policy of the Israeli government is antisemitic, and there have been plenty of legitimate political activities held by the bodies you mentioned, so it would be unfair to judge them by it.

"*Several members of the other side also take Arabic classes - that is one of the few schools in the area where Arabic is taught, and there is a constantly changing roster of Israel-haters studying Arabic there."

where did you get this garbage characterization??? Really? you want to name some names about what kind of people study arabic there?Actually, most foreign born or first generation Palestinians in the bay area don't need to study arabic. Most of the student are either aspiring academics or older hippy women interested in traveling to Egypt or Morocco and young women for fun and or personal interest. And a few nerdy white guys thrown into the mix. They are hardly political activists or radicals. And I have never heard an anti-jewish word spoken by any student there. I would really like to know where you get your information with some hard evidence.

Actually, most foreign born or first generation Palestinians in the bay area don't need to study arabic. True. Never said they were Arabs.

Most of the student are either aspiring academics or older hippy women interested in traveling to Egypt or Morocco and young women for fun and or personal interest. Including several "idealistic" Israel-haters, past and present students.

I would really like to know where you get your information with some hard evidence. Why? Who are you? And what is your interest in this case?

Remarkably, I can also imagine several Israel haters who would gladly kill a zionist. And didn't many of them try to harass him? I though I heard somewhere that they tried to find out the names, addresses, and phone numbers of some of the Israel supporters in the Bay Area.

Is this possibly related to the actions of students for justice in Palestine? Some of those people are young middleclass dweebs looking for a cause. And didn't they jump some Jews at that concert in Berkeley last month? Maybe the police should question some people in Berkeley!

Anyone who is a student at Berkeley and taking the same Arabic classes as Dan Kliman should be looked at more closely.

All of you people are insane! Typical damm Zionazi conspiracy theorries without any substance, which you hope will wake sympathy for your pathetic brutal cause. He wasn't murdered,, you fucks, he fell!!!

Just wait, more of you sonsobitches will fall too. Beware of elvators.

Palestinian spokesman: No matter what kind of lies that you say, we know the Jews own the media, the Jews own Hollywood, the Jews own everything! The CEOs of all the major companies. Look at the House of Representatives! Look at the Congress! They're all Jews; their Zionism have agendas, and their agendas are to take over the world. They have America fighting their army. They instigate all this BULLSHIT that has millions and millions of Muslims and Arabs killed. That's all it is. And they sit there and they lie -- talk about they are victims of terrorism? They are not terrorism. If you look up terrorism, it should be Israel. They are the biggest terrorists. On the one hand you cry every day about your Holocaust, you cry about Hitler, and you do the same things if not worse to what Hitler did. You guys are modern-day Nazis. You are modern-day Hitler-followers. That's all you are! You cry about Hitler. You get millions and millions of dollars from the German companies, from countries, you guys still receive compensation. What about Palestinians? What about all the land that you confiscated? You think that you're going to get it without a cost? There's a price to occupation. That bus is a price to occupation. Every time that a martyr goes out and does a mission, it's a price of occupation. And you will pay, and you have just seen the beginning of it.

Speech on January 17, 2005, in front of San Francisco city hall.Recorded by Zombie.Link: http://www.zombietime.com/bus_19_sf/Dan and the rest of us were at that rally. The crap being screamed by the other side was disgusting. There are truly sick hateful bastards on the pro-Palestinian side. They showed up in force the day before in Berkeley, with more hatred and even more attempts to start violence.Link: http://www.zombietime.com/bus_19_berkeley/Dan was also at that rally, as one of the photos on Zombie's site clearly shows.

Every single rally that mixed Arabs and their nice middle-class American supporters (JVP, ISM, WIB, etc) devolved into a hatefest, with anti-semitic slogans, slurs, yelled threats, and attempts to get at the pro-Israel people. Several rallies turned into shoving matches. There is hatred on the other side, and there is the desire by many pro-palestinians to physically attack Jews.

Israel is the largest recipient of U.S. aid. Three billion dollarsper year of our tax dollars goes to fund the Israeli military andits attacks on Palestinians. In the last four months alone,Israeli attacks in Gaza have killed many hundreds of Palestinians.

AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee*, describesitself as the most influential lobby affecting the U.S.relationship with Israel. It has been a consistent supporter ofBush's belligerent and disastrous policies in the Middle East.

Support for Israel is not in the interest of the American people!*We call on our elected representatives to say NO to the AIPAC lobby and NO to the Israeli war machine that kills civilians.No more U.S. tax dollars to Israel!

Join the protest at the South Bay AIPAC Dinner, Sunday, December 7, 5:15 p.m.

Some facts:- 55 New Montgomery is a large building the many tenants. The Arabic school is just one tenant. The building was not closed based on whether Arabic classes were in session.

- the elevators in that building are old and often had problems.

Please stop acting as if all things associated with Arabic end up in murder and violence. It's easy to speculate about things that are possible, but the murder and conspiracy theories are far fetched here. I spent plenty of time at this school and don't appreciate the stereotyping and the portrayal of the school as a haven of Jews v. Arabs, or Israel v. Palestine. The school and its staff are very "San Francisco": stick to teaching, make everone feel welcome, avoid hot-bed discussions, hire staff that is diverse ethnically, age, gender, sexual orientation, national origin.

Please stop acting as if all things associated with Arabic end up in murder and violence. It's easy to speculate about things that are possible, but the murder and conspiracy theories are far fetched here. I spent plenty of time at this school and don't appreciate the stereotyping and the portrayal of the school as a haven of Jews v. Arabs, or Israel v. Palestine.

Those are all excellent points. And the school has been mentioned in articles over the past few years as a place where Jews from a spectrum of political strata come to study Arabic. I also have to doubt that Arabs go there to study Arabic.

The school is not the issue. The political strata might be. It only takes one rotten apple. If there was that one (or two, or three) rotten apple(s), it should neither tarr the other students, nor tarnish the school. But it will indicate that things have gotten out of hand in the Bay Area.

Personally, I believe that things have indeed gotten out of hand in the Bay Area. This is based on personal experiences. I avoid places where I am recognized, I do not mention my beliefs in many environments, and I no longer patronize many businesses where I have overheard hatred or been confronted.

But I am less inclined to believe that this was not accidental than I was a week ago (in other words, more likely to assume that it was an accident). I am still awaiting a truly convincing explanation of what the police "think" happened - this will require quite some good reasoning, and, obviously, clear and uncompromised evidence that bears out that explanation.

As a post-scriptum, I shall also say that Dan Savage and Debbie Schlussel are paranoid morons and blow-hards. Their opinions, on almost any subject, amount to little more than flammable mal-digested beans. Punkt.

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About Me

Middle-aged, but younger looking than you. And hardly any arthritis. Really.
Resident of the Bay Area, though formerly of somewhere in the Netherlands - living in Europe with a US passport can be an adventure.
I should also mention that I am not a Red-Sea pedestrian. Make of that what you will.