BKFORUM, the leading bankruptcy message board with over 1 Million annual visitors, welcomes you to our community!

You are you viewing the Bankruptcy Forum as guest (limited viewing). If you don't have a BKF account yet, please REGISTER (takes 30 seconds) so you can post your own questions and see all the features available to the registered users.

BKForum is a strictly no-solicitation, no-spamming private community to discuss bankruptcy, credit, and other financial topics.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.

Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.

341 Today - Still very uneasy? - Trustee Attorney

09-26-2013, 09:39 PM

It seemed to go smooth. She asked questions about our three sets of assets that are non-exempt and we told her of the transfer we forgot to include. But what scared me is the trustees attorney asked a lot of the questions. Can some one help me understand why our case has an attorney? and should we be worried?

We do have a mutual fund worth 13000 that was placed in the wrong place in the schedules. we amended it this week to place it under the cash and bank accounts.

I guess I am just wondering if we are going to be under more scrutiny with her there. I am wracking my brains trying to think of what I might have forgotten on the schedules, or any mistakes that I might have made? We filed extremely quick - there was no pre-planning on our case. so I am guessing something is going to pop up? partially because we never got interviewed by our attorney and I am not sure how much they looked at things? Like asking us questions about certain types of things that they might normally see but don't see on ours? I don't know.

Any way to know if they are looking at something particular? or will they go through our attorney.

So yes - I am still extreamly scared at this point. and to find out that my non-exempt items will go through auction if I offer a bid or not.

I have already given my background as an Asset CH7 case on your other thread.

In order to try to figure out what is going on, I need to ask some questions. I tend to 'teach by example' so I cited our particular incident with our trustee's attorney to another poster--and totally freaked him out and had him scared and worried about what might happen--which didn't--in his case, so I don't want to do the same thing here.

1. What has your attorney told you about your case?
2. Was your attorney present, or did you and your DH have to go it alone?
3. How good/diligent/competent do you think your attorney actually is?
4. How well does your attoney communicate with you and answer your questions?
5. Were you given a good understanding of the BK process, or were you handed a generalized pamphlet and told to read it?
6. Have you signed up for a PACER account? If not, you need to. You can track your case's progress there w/o having to be at the mercy of the attorney's office to keep you informed. Be aware. PACER can be costly if you aren't careful.

I am going to address the issue of the non-exempt assets first. Most likely you will be offered a chance to purchase your non-exempt assets back from the BK estate, before anything goes to public auction. The trustee may or may not offer you a discounted rate. Ours did, but yours may not.

In our case, we were offered a chance to purchase our things back for 12 monthly payments of $450.00. We were able to do this and elected to do so. In our case, most of our things were family heirlooms--valueless to anyone else, but priceless to us. Florida has very little in the way of personal property exemptions. Great homestead, though.

Another group of things were 'Hub's computer equipment, including seven computers which he used in his computer consulting business. We claimed those as 'Tools of the Trade'. The only problem there was that Florida does NOT allow a 'Tools of the Trade' exemption. Our dear attorney failed to tell us that when we filled out the paperwork SHE gave us (standardized forms).

Now as to the trustee's attorney: What questions were asked? Were they about any one thing in particular, or about all of your listings in general. Learning the answer to that will help a lot.

You also need to know, if you aren't aware of it is that the UST (United States Trustee) will pick cases at random to audit and request additional documentation. This happens in about every 1000 cases or so.

I think that is about all I will post here for now. But I will be back.

Comment

I am trying to calm down. Questions you asked.
1. Not much. that we didn't have anything. should be easy or they would have not quoted us the low fee that they did. even though we are well over that fee now. When I asked about the attorney - she said she thinks they will use her for paperwork. Not sure I know what the means?
2, Attorney was present. a different one who I like better and wish we had him at the beginning.
3. Don't know. I think she is flighty and gets aggravated at my questions. Like I am suppose to know everything. the one we had today was kind, listened and gave good advice.
4. She seems to answer questions. however usually in short answers. that I some times do not understand.
5. NOpe Nada. just that we fill out the paper work, have a 341 meeting and the rest is easy. HUMPH
6. NO - I have seen a few things on that but have yet to research that forum post on what to do and not get charged an arm and leg. Hopefully I can figure that one out.

When I talked to the attorney today about the buy back, he said that we can make an offer, but regardless it goes to auction. if we are the highest bidder, then we get it, if someone else comes along and out bids, then we lose. this is something that our attorney did NOT tell us about. just the fill in yesterday. So I was complexly shocked that it will go to auction anyway and we have to hope we are the highest bidder or go to the auction and ensure that we are.

the attorney asked the general set of questions - have you reviewed. is everything correct, are you expecting an inheritance, etc. The trustee asked the specific questions. They asked about my non exempt jewelry - I have already submitted photos of it to her. My designer handbags. yes I have them, she has pictures of them and on this one she can have them for auction. Then we had listed my photography equip as tools of the trade. I make my living at a law firm, but I do photo stuff as a hobby, taken tons of classes and hope to make that my living eventually. So far I just get few token amounts from friends. She asked if I made any money on that. I stated no - of course the attorney after said that he thought I did. but I made less than $500 last year doing it - and it cost me more in gas and time. so I just said no I don't. Not sure if that was a mistake.

Trustee then asked if we discussed making an offer for buy back on those three items, I said no since my regular attorney is out at the moment. She said she understood. then told the attorney to get the appraisers together.

Do they come to your house to appraise? or just want you to turn over the stuff to appraise. I don't understand that at all. obviously they don't believe my values stated.

I had read about that - but thought I read that you generally know before the 341 one meeting?

Comment

She did also ask about the amendment. what it was. told her the camera and lens. How much did I get for it. 5500. what is a check deposited to my bank account. yes. she asked which account. told her . I know she will look it up which is fine. then asked who sold to. and any relation to me. Answered both of those. and then that was it. so don't know what else she will think on that one, if she believes me or not. I am guessing once we get the amendment in and she can see the camera specifics to look up the FMV we will be in better shape?

Comment

When I talked to the attorney today about the buy back, he said that we can make an offer, but regardless it goes to auction. if we are the highest bidder, then we get it, if someone else comes along and out bids, then we lose. this is something that our attorney did NOT tell us about. just the fill in yesterday. So I was complexly shocked that it will go to auction anyway and we have to hope we are the highest bidder or go to the auction and ensure that we are.

They asked about my non exempt jewelry - I have already submitted photos of it to her. My designer handbags. yes I have them, she has pictures of them and on this one she can have them for auction. Then we had listed my photography equip as tools of the trade.
Trustee then asked if we discussed making an offer for buy back on those three items, I said no since my regular attorney is out at the moment. She said she understood. then told the attorney to get the appraisers together.

Do they come to your house to appraise? or just want you to turn over the stuff to appraise. I don't understand that at all. obviously they don't believe my values stated.

You are in Arizona, so I do not know if appraisers will go to your house. They generally don't in Florida, and when they do it is only a section of the Florida Middle District near Tampa and Sarasota, where appraisers are sent to your house to appraise your HOME, not small stuff like jewelry or handbags.

I don't know what types of appraisals you sent in with your jewelry, but usually people take their jewelry to three different local pawn shops to get statements on the pawn value, and the sale value, and turn those in with the paperwork. If you do that, I would do the same thing with the handbags and the camera equipment.

"To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

"Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

Comment

She did also ask about the amendment. what it was. told her the camera and lens. How much did I get for it. 5500. what is a check deposited to my bank account. yes. she asked which account. told her . I know she will look it up which is fine. then asked who sold to. and any relation to me. Answered both of those. and then that was it. so don't know what else she will think on that one, if she believes me or not. I am guessing once we get the amendment in and she can see the camera specifics to look up the FMV we will be in better shape?

How long ago was the sale? Generally you are only asked for the six months worth of bank statements immediately prior to your filing date.

"To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

"Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

Comment

My paralegal just said to use garage sales values for all of our stuff. so that is what I did on the jewelry. I didn't actually take it any where so I don't know. I know that gold is not worth much. The hand bags, I looked on ebay for the same ones and used those values. On the ones that were practically new, I just used the new price.

Comment

I had read about that - but thought I read that you generally know before the 341 one meeting?

Not necessarily. One poor soul here didn't realize she was being audited until after numerous questions about why she was being asked for this, that, and that other thing--with all the forum members at the time scratching their collective heads--I was a newbie--that everybody figured it out together. She was being audited!

Yes, a good attorney should let the client know if he/she knows ahead of time--but you don't have as good an attorney as OURS was! And that ain't sayin' much!

"To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

"Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

Comment

I think it is not an audit. Just because we got the court request from the trustee for hiring the attorney
Then also the court paperwork from the attorney saying she is representing the trustee and her
Hourly fees.

Comment

I think it is not an audit. Just because we got the court request from the trustee for hiring the attorney
Then also the court paperwork from the attorney saying she is representing the trustee and her
Hourly fees.

Okay. That is standard operating procedure when the trustee wants something investigated. That puts us back to the type of questions the attorney asked.

Also, what was the header on the documents you got informing you that an attorney was being hired? That will (hopefully) tell the story.

"To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

"Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

Comment

My paralegal just said to use garage sales values for all of our stuff. so that is what I did on the jewelry. I didn't actually take it any where so I don't know. I know that gold is not worth much. The hand bags, I looked on ebay for the same ones and used those values. On the ones that were practically new, I just used the new price.

Bad move there. eBay prices are what the seller WANTS to sell the item for, not the actual price that someone is willing to pay. On the practically new bags, never EVER, NOT ever, use the new price--unless you purchased at a thrift store. I dumpster-dive, and cannot tell you how many things I find brand new, but unsaleable for some reason, and is thrown away.

Comment

Cat. Well I didn't know and that is why my attorney told us to do. Look up on eBay.

Des. Yes. It is 13,000. I had given info to my attorney about my accounts before. Let's just say that I am not a financial planner. I don't know the difference between a retirement fund and not. My intent was to not touch it untill I retired. Thus retirement account. Yes. We now know that these funds will be taken. Why bk7? Our business failed and we are personally liable for about $200,000 in debt. Some secured which we cannot get out of. We were fine on a personal level but through in the business debt there was no way. So attorney told us to file the bk7 personally.

Comment

The attorneys paperwork pretty much states the same thing. Negotiating, preparing applications, obtaining assets, legal advice.

Again the questions she asked were the standard questions that the trustee asked on the case previous to us. Paperwork correct. Owe alimony any changes. Did we sign it. Anyone else holding assets for us. Etc. nothing out of the norm.