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LE

This is a bloody disgrace. If they stop my tax credits, child benefit and the attendance allowance I get for little Gideon's ADHD, how the hell am I supposed to pay the nanny? She's absolutely essential for a busy managing director like me so I'd have no choice but to let somebody else go. The garden wont do itself so it'll have to be the chauffeur.

War Hero

The welfare state's a ponzi scheme if ever there was one. The only way to sustain it is an ever increasing population and ever greater tax. And then, one day, the wheels will come, quite spectacularly, off the bus. And I'd love any leftie to disprove that.

LE

Good! I have a simple theory. Cut all out-of-work benefits and raise the level you can earn before you start paying TAX. That will get more people back into work and out of the "benefits dependency trap".

LE

On the plus side, the people they're targeting are the sort who can't be arsed to have a good riot about it

So long as they target the real feckless workshy, and don't just round up the genuinely disabled and put them through the wringer, then I'm all for it. Sadly I can see it being the usual DWP exercise of hounding those who can't work through genuine disability and need (the easy targets) whilst the professionally lazy carry on as before...... I hope to be pleasantly surprised!

ADC

This has been tried but successive governments and failed miserably. Time will tell if GO will be successful this time round.

One of the problems of course is government say they will slash benefits etc yet local government employ a host of people to inform people of their 'rights' so when someone loses a benefit, they often just claim the next one on the list.

I can see GPs becoming very busy as whole swathes of people suddenly develop debilitating illnesses and conditions.

LE

May I refer the honourable gentleman to last year's "quantitative easing" scam. 200 billion quid straight off the printing presses at the Bank of England and straight into Gordon's chequeing account.

That's the entire welfare budget and more. Mugabe style magic money created out of thin air and used to keep a third of our population obediently dole bound. Stand by for rising inflation as the cash works its way through the economy.

LE

Auld-Yin, is it time to think about forming a no-win-no-fee personal injury company? I'd wager that half the population of chav estates are about to 'fall down the stairs' or 'trip over a crack in the pavement'!

The current benefits system does indeed need major reform though, an acquaintance of ours (never worked in her life, no qualifications, can't even spell) is about to swan off on her fifth foreign holiday of the year - all paid for by having an encyclopaedic knowledge of the benefits system. There should be no way on God's green Earth that an uneducated illiterate chavette should have a free house, no living costs, plus enough disposable income coming in to lead a jet-setting lifestyle equivalent to someone on a 50k+ salary!

LE

LE

Nope. What she is doing is completely within the rules! That's the point, the rules need changing to ensure that people's entitlements are in some way in line with covering reasonable living costs - NOT giving people a free ride!

LE

LE

No testable symptoms and after 12 months you get £91 a week for sitting on your arse drinking wine and smoking fags all day. Add that to your council tax and rent and it's at least £200 a week for even a modest house round here. That's equivalent to a salary before tax of £13k

LE

Whilst I am more than in favor of reforming the benefit policies and getting the lazy gits back into work, in areas of high unemployment where manufacturing/manual labour was the main employer are there the jobs for them to fill? Many people use to work in low skill/uneducated rolls. Do these still exist?

Look at the closure of the Corus Steel Plant in Teeside. Most of the workers there don't want to be on benefits, they'd be much happier getting minging on the shop floor working their tits off doing a basic job. What will they retrain to do? A call centre roll? Work in a shop (which, if the area has no money coming in, won't last as they won't have customers)?

The reforms/cuts need to go hand in hand with assistance to keep work within the UK rather than letting it be exported and create rolls which will employ people who don't have a degree and will never have one. THAT is why the UK will struggle for the next 10/20 years.

What we could do is cut the aid that goes to China/other countries. Their economies wouldn't be able to sustain their rapid growth and it would become cheaper to do the work here (this is a best case senario and I have no doubt that this will not happen for many a year). My dad works for such a company, they've moved their manufacturing to China where they haven't managed to produce a part for over a year now. The UK factory use to be able to chuck out 5/6 per month to a quality which was above the spec required (Air industry, pretty high). They will be looking to move back within a few years. There are so many problems over there I can't be bothered to type them up just now. Needless to say, the boom is just that. Give it a few years and it won't be as much of a cheaper option as it is now and we'll have lost the skills and equipment that are needed for us to pick up the slack.

LE

I've a few minutes spare so will describe a few problems that they're facing with these parts.

Production has been outsourced from the main contractor to sub contractors. They've purchased the equipment, had the design specs and even been told the settings that are needed to produce the parts. The UK (Isle of Man) contractor are using temp labour who don't care, they're producing sub-standard parts which although initially pass Quality Control fail quicker than the parts produced originally. Waste of time? You're telling me! As long as they get paid and hit targets it doesn't matter as the company will pay.

China is the place for cheap labour, but, this labour is catching on that their bosses are making ALOT of money. Their are no contracts, not unions, little training and no loyalty. Someone will work in a factory one day and leave the next because they're bored or not paid. People will recieve some training but ignore it so when they do make something they'll make it wrong and it will fail. They don't care, their paid a few pence. They've realised that their getting paid little and want more, they'll turn up and do nothing, saying they want a pay rise and not leave until they get one or thrown out. The line has to stop until this happens slowing/stopping manufacture. Parts are shipped to China and refused by customs because 1 bit of wood on a pallet isn't stamped with the right stamp (every individual bit of wood has to be stamped, imagine a UN standard pallet, there's quite a few!). They'll search the contents, throw away any test documentation (which is a legal document required by the industry) and then put it to one side. They won't tell anyone they've done this, you have to chase your non deliveries.

This has been done in the interests of 'cutting costs', but as the person who has done this can't 'lose face' they can't stop the move from the UK to China, it has to happen. Maybe it'll come back but the people who use to work on the lines have all been made redundent or retired. The equipment used has been gone and the buildings sold. Can the end customer go to another supplier? No, there isn't one.

LE

Of course there are jobs for the unskilled uneducated. They just dont pay as much as the benefits office so they dont get done!

Perhaps we should create an "Army" of road sweepers and litter pickers. We dont need to pay them any more than the basic enemployment benefit is now. Call it "employmnent benefit". It would not be optional though. Do that or find a better job. Net result, cleaner country - better tourist revenue and feel good factor for residents - and a work force incentivised to improve their skills and look for better paid work which will, over time, reduce the numbers being paid the new "employment benefit".

LE

So how do you alleviate this? Whatever the method (tax breaks for industry, public funding for basic R&D, resettlement courses in new skills) it will cost a heap of money that we simply don't have to throw about. How do you rebuild a manufacturing industry on the cheap?

LE

Of course there are jobs for the unskilled uneducated. They just dont pay as much as the benefits office so they dont get done!

Perhaps we should create an "Army" of road sweepers and litter pickers. We dont need to pay them any more than the basic enemployment benefit is now. Call it "employmnent benefit". It would not be optional though. Do that or find a better job. Net result, cleaner country - better tourist revenue and feel good factor for residents - and a work force incentivised to improve their skills and look for better paid work which will, over time, reduce the numbers being paid the new "employment benefit".

LE

Nope. What she is doing is completely within the rules! That's the point, the rules need changing to ensure that people's entitlements are in some way in line with covering reasonable living costs - NOT giving people a free ride!