Mr. Show with Bob and David: Genius or Overrated?

Ie. suggesting Mr. Show is "trying to be" something it clearly is (to many people, at least). That is why I asked if you were there when they were writing the sketches, to see if you had some insight as to what they were "trying to be." That's all.

Lemonade, are you seriously arguing (as you appear to be) that the writer weren't trying to be "loopy and inventive"? I think that's where you and Ned have common ground, you both think that that's what they were shooting for, but you disagree as to whether they hit it.

As for saying "many people consider this subjective opinion to be true", that is, if you'll pardon my French, a prick's game.

come to think of it, even though i like arrested development, i kinda feel about it the way ned feels about mr.show. tries too hard to be zany, shrill,etc. and i don't even like david cross that much on it. i think i have already seen that kind of character so many times from him. plus, he has a real problem with taking his shirt off too. on mr.show and arrested development. i don't know what that is all about. but i do think it's clever. and i love george michael. i get sick of opey's voice though. and i do find it more "amusing" than LOL-funny.

No problem, Andrew, I am a prick. I don't know that the writer's were trying to be "loopy and inventive" any more than they might just be young, hilarious writers (possibly on drugs) who went back and forth like this:

Writer #1: "Now that is fuckin' funny! Ha, ha, ha!"

All writers: (riotous laughter)

Writer #2: "Ooooh, man. Ohhhh, shit."

Writer #3: "That situation is kind of like this other situation..."

(and there's your rolling segue)

Writer #4: "It's totally the opposite of this other situation..."

(and there's your rolling segue)

No, I don't think it they were TRYING to be loopy and inspired, I think they just WERE. They came at comedy from every angle and tried to cram as many jokes as they could into a single episode.

When Scott and I first started hanging out, one of the first things he played me on his t.v. was his Mr. Show videos. I think he was really relieved when my sides were splitting and asked to see more. We might not be married today if I had hated it.

one more thing about mr.show: i never got the "ha! aren't we clever clever?" vibe from it. the vibe i always got was "this is EXACTLY what we find funny and what our friends find funny and this may be our only chance to do this on television and if you like it, fine, but if you don't, oh well, we really feel like we got the chance of a lifetime here". but maybe i'm just a naive fool.

my best friend Lance and I have very similar senses of humor. we immediately bonded with mr.show. we used to love a show that nobody remembers called On The Television starring Tim Conway's son that was a siskel & ebert kinda spoof show where 2 guys would review new fake t.v. shows. let me know when that is on dvd. it wasn't always hilarious, but boy was it silly. we both love mad t.v. too.

Who do you think you are?! This company cares! We were in the people business when you were in short pants! My great-great-great grandfather started this company with one single rickety, leaky, hand-crafted slave ship, and a simple motto: "People selling people to people." So, don't tell me that I'm fat!!

come to think of it, even though i like arrested development, i kinda feel about it the way ned feels about mr.show. tries too hard to be zany, shrill,etc. and i don't even like david cross that much on it.

Scott is OTM about the intentional "trying too hard" aspect of the live parts. There are a number of great fake sketch bits throughout the series.

The show is certainly inconsistant, but they had some really incredible material. Both Mr. Show and the Upright Citizens Brigade tv show had some interesting ideas about working improv and live sketch formats into a television show, but I think both ultimately make the case for the supremecy of the live experience. (although Arrested Development plays with some of the same tools in a manner much more effective for television)

Scott is OTM about the intentional "trying too hard" aspect of the live parts. There are a number of great fake sketch bits throughout the series.

Hm...all right, let me serve up an example -- one sketch I found egregriously painful was the one in the restaurant where the staff is all falling over themselves to take care of the dude when he poops. So, was that a 'fake' sketch (and was I apparently unaware not to notice?)? (I'm not objecting to that approach -- see also SCTV, MST3K, etc. -- but I don't think it worked well here.)

(Then again maybe the experience of 10 million thousand hundred painfully unfunny SNL sketches over the moons has colored my experience -- the equivalent being my friend who was a hairdresser who couldn't stand Absolutely Fabulous because she knew people exactly like Eddy and Patsy and hated them to the point where she couldn't laugh at their antics! And then again it could just be FUCKING CROSS but anyway.)

Hm...all right, let me serve up an example -- one sketch I found egregriously painful was the one in the restaurant where the staff is all falling over themselves to take care of the dude when he poops. So, was that a 'fake' sketch (and was I apparently unaware not to notice?)? (I'm not objecting to that approach -- see also SCTV, MST3K, etc. -- but I don't think it worked well here.)

I was referring to the live segments--i.e. the "Space Dog" sketch.

As dumb as Lemonade Salesman's argument is, I don't know if "trying too hard" is a particularly useful criticism as it's phrased, especially when so much sketch could stand to try a lot harder (Michael Showalter, I'm looking at you). I haven't seen the poop sketch in a few years, but I'm remember it being executed very well--great raising the stakes, strong beats--but predicated on pretty weak ideas. Blount brought up Chappelle Show, which suffers from the opposite problem; great (if sometimes same-y) ideas, half-assed execution.

If I was going to give someone an example of trying too hard I'd show the video for Van Halen's "Panama" and then the video for "Yankee Rose." Which does reaffirm that "trying too hard" isn't really that bad.