kiwimoogle84:umad: Flab: This wouldn't be necesary if American women had decent maternity leaves.

I will be fine with doing my work as well as the work of my female coworkers while they are paid the same amount to sit at home on their asses as soon as they are fine with stopping by my place after work every day to give me a blow job for my trouble.

Unpaid maternity leave should be unlimited. Paid maternity leave should be illegal.

First of all, a few facts for you. FMLA leave is never 100% of the pay. It's 55%-70% depending on your employer. And "maternity leave" isn't it's own thing, it's part of FMLA and disability, which also covers YOU if your dad has a heart attack or your kid has cancer.

And I know you're trolling, which is why I'm trying to educate you so you sound less stupid the next time you go on this kind of rant but I'll bite a little bit- as soon as men have the ability to put up with ten months of constant illness and then push a watermelon out of their weiners after hours of excruciating agony, then they have the right to judge us "sitting on our asses". C-sections are SURGERY and require at least six weeks to heal, so that's the bare minimum of leave. Let me know how it works out when you need heart surgery or a knee replacement and they tell you you can't "sit on your ass" and get paid for it.

Well, in all fairness, having kids is a choice, and heart surgery is not. A better comparison would be that I should get equivalent time off when I buy a new puppy, so that I don't have to drive home twice a day to walk it. If we were in a severe population shortage, then it would make sense for society to pay for more children, but right now that's not an issue.

hasty ambush:KwameKilstrawberry: kiwimoogle84: I think it's ridiculous that women campaign for equal wages and then expect the men to pay for all their meals out at restaurants. You want equality, or you want to be spoiled. You can't have both.

You're an idiot.

No he is not. Women want it both ways equality and special treatment. "Equal" women are supposedly ready to serve in the combat arms ( infantry, armor, artillery, etc) and face the rigours of combat in those brances but for some reason need special treatment under the law with things like the violence against women act.

Women supposedly want to be treated equal like men except when it comes to spawning. They want all the authority to decide if to spawn or abort but daddy (the evil male whose kid it is also) only gets the responsiblity meaning make sure his wallet is open if women decides to keep his child. Heck all she has to do is claim it is his and he may get stuck paying for it. If they want all the authority let them assume all the responsiblity-from contraception or lack there of to financial responsibility.

You're both idiots for parrotting back the same bullshiat that makes people think of bra-burning when they hear the term 'feminism'. You are both perpetuating an ongoing gender war that is proving to have devestating consequences on women right now, and you in particular, are full of vitriol.

When the government wants to ban condoms, and throw you in jail for knocking a chick up, you might have an understanding of what kind of threat the current political environment is to women. And since we head 1/2 the families in this country, and are partners with almost all the rest, it really is in your best interest to support our wish to make a living, equitable income.

KwameKilstrawberry:hasty ambush: KwameKilstrawberry: kiwimoogle84: I think it's ridiculous that women campaign for equal wages and then expect the men to pay for all their meals out at restaurants. You want equality, or you want to be spoiled. You can't have both.

You're an idiot.

No he is not. Women want it both ways equality and special treatment. "Equal" women are supposedly ready to serve in the combat arms ( infantry, armor, artillery, etc) and face the rigours of combat in those brances but for some reason need special treatment under the law with things like the violence against women act.

Women supposedly want to be treated equal like men except when it comes to spawning. They want all the authority to decide if to spawn or abort but daddy (the evil male whose kid it is also) only gets the responsiblity meaning make sure his wallet is open if women decides to keep his child. Heck all she has to do is claim it is his and he may get stuck paying for it. If they want all the authority let them assume all the responsiblity-from contraception or lack there of to financial responsibility.

You're both idiots for parrotting back the same bullshiat that makes people think of bra-burning when they hear the term 'feminism'. You are both perpetuating an ongoing gender war that is proving to have devestating consequences on women right now, and you in particular, are full of vitriol.

When the government wants to ban condoms, and throw you in jail for knocking a chick up, you might have an understanding of what kind of threat the current political environment is to women. And since we head 1/2 the families in this country, and are partners with almost all the rest, it really is in your best interest to support our wish to make a living, equitable income.

To be fair, it isn't that bad...yet. No one is trying to ban contraception, some organizations are (for stupid reasons) trying to get out of paying for it. No health plan pays for condoms, so it's not really a fair comparison.

I'm guessing your "throw you in jail for knocking a chick up" thing is an analogy for abortion and the Right's opposition to it. There you're getting closer. No one will go to jail right now for having an abortion, but a lot of states are damn well trying to.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is don't accuse someone of hyperbole and then do it yourself, even if it's to a lesser degree and even if you're more right than they are. :)

KwameKilstrawberry(deleted: Personal attacks/namecalling)Well, aren't you just the most precious little thing. Didn't mean to upset your delicate sensibilities. I'll have to be much less harsh when you feel the vapors coming on.

Lord Dimwit:Additionally, even if wait times are longer in Canada than they are in the US (which they are, but not to the degree you imply), Canadians live longer, have lower infant mortality rates, are generally healthier, and suffer from fewer preventable diseases than the average person in the United States. Same goes for almost the entire developed world

I did nto imply those wait times they are the figures from Canada, not my implication.

If you adjust for deaths due to non-helaht care related issues like car accidents (Americans drive more than anyone else), violent crime etc. We actually live longer:

health care isn't the only factor in life expectancy since all manner of things can kill you: crime, war, accident, diet and exercise behavior, etc. , when we control for things likw traffic fatalities and homicides, "The US jumps from 15th on the list with a life expectancy of 75.3 to 1st with a life expectancy of 76.9.

^ worthless reporter writing useless drivel. Not her first hack at the breastfeeding conversation either.

Yikes! I just can't believe someone stuck their dick in that bug-eyed troglodyte long enough to get her pregnant. She looks more like "in through the out door" material to me.

How can you say such unnecessarily mean-spirited and horrible things, unprovoked, about anyone? I get it - this is the internet, and all. But still. Would you really say that to someone face to face?

I think you are a terrible person. And I would tell you that to your face without feeling ashamed or embarrassed at my conduct.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

I know. I know. But I think there has to be some sort of form of holding people - even the anonymous dickbags - accountable. Anyone with any sort of valid thing to say does not spew that kind of hate for the sake of hate. I call upon the Internet Justice League to shun this user and disregard everything he says until some mea culpa has been demonstrated.

Lord Dimwit:To be fair, it isn't that bad...yet. No one is trying to ban contraception, some organizations are (for stupid reasons) trying to get out of paying for it. No health plan pays for condoms, so it's not really a fair comparison.

I'm guessing your "throw you in jail for knocking a chick up" thing is an analogy for abortion and the Right's opposition to it. There you're getting closer. No one will go to jail right now for having an abortion, but a lot of states are damn well trying to.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is don't accuse someone of hyperbole and then do it yourself, even if it's to a lesser degree and even if you're more right than they are. :)

Men have one prophylactic that is cheap, legal and over the counter. Now, name how many of the same that women have. It is not hyperbole when all our birth control options already require medical supervision, meaning additional costs, follow up, health risks and regulations. Anything that has regulations can be used as a political football, including pushing for devestating restrictions to access that stops just short of a ban, which is happening all over the red states (and some purple) right now.

So give me a D+ for writing style, but you've demonstrated you got my point.

hasty ambush:Lord Dimwit: Additionally, even if wait times are longer in Canada than they are in the US (which they are, but not to the degree you imply), Canadians live longer, have lower infant mortality rates, are generally healthier, and suffer from fewer preventable diseases than the average person in the United States. Same goes for almost the entire developed world

I did nto imply those wait times they are the figures from Canada, not my implication.

If you adjust for deaths due to non-helaht care related issues like car accidents (Americans drive more than anyone else), violent crime etc. We actually live longer:

health care isn't the only factor in life expectancy since all manner of things can kill you: crime, war, accident, diet and exercise behavior, etc. , when we control for things likw traffic fatalities and homicides, "The US jumps from 15th on the list with a life expectancy of 75.3 to 1st with a life expectancy of 76.9.

So one of the central and oft-quoted motivations for government control of health care "The US spends more per capita on health care than any other country, and yet has one of the lowest life expectancies of any developed country" is quite misleading.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 372x400]

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 281x400]

Also

[www.nospeedbumps.com image 315x354]

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 480x306]

[www.chipbennett.net image 400x353]

How do you explain the vast difference in infant and maternal mortality rates? It's not like those babies are driving in cars or fighting in wars.

As for the cancer survival rates, insured Americans do indeed tend to survive better and longer than their counterparts in the rest of the developed world - but uninsured Americans have a survival rate lower than that of, for example, Canada. Additionally, those studies have been questioned due to the fact that the populations in question tend to be older. The number of people under the age of 14 in the United States is almost double the number of people over the age of 65, whereas in Europe, the number of people over 65 slightly outnumber the number of people under 14. Older populations tend to have lower survival rates for cancer just because they tend to have lower survival rates for everything.

We have a lady here at work that has just had a child and one day there was an issue with her computer so I was looking into the matter when she asked how much longer I was going to be. I told her that I wasn't sure and she informed me that she needed to use her breast pump. I told her that my sister lived with us when she had her first child and I knew how uncomfortable it gets when you do not use the breast pump in a timely manner. I then told her that I would not be offended or embarrassed if she went ahead and used her pump. She thought about it for a second and then said ok, took off her shirt and bra and then attached the cups to her breasts and started the pump. I completed my work explained what the problem was then thanked her for trusting me, complemented her on her breast and told her I was honored to have been able to see them. I find that if you treat women with respect you tend to be allowed to enjoy seeing many of them in some state of undress that you normally would have no hope to see nude.

KwameKilstrawberry:Lord Dimwit: To be fair, it isn't that bad...yet. No one is trying to ban contraception, some organizations are (for stupid reasons) trying to get out of paying for it. No health plan pays for condoms, so it's not really a fair comparison.

I'm guessing your "throw you in jail for knocking a chick up" thing is an analogy for abortion and the Right's opposition to it. There you're getting closer. No one will go to jail right now for having an abortion, but a lot of states are damn well trying to.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is don't accuse someone of hyperbole and then do it yourself, even if it's to a lesser degree and even if you're more right than they are. :)

Men have one prophylactic that is cheap, legal and over the counter. Now, name how many of the same that women have. It is not hyperbole when all our birth control options already require medical supervision, meaning additional costs, follow up, health risks and regulations. Anything that has regulations can be used as a political football, including pushing for devestating restrictions to access that stops just short of a ban, which is happening all over the red states (and some purple) right now.

So give me a D+ for writing style, but you've demonstrated you got my point.

Women can buy condoms too, not just men, and no state, not even one of the red ones, has even suggested a ban on female contraception (or condoms for that matter), though again they are trying to essentially ban it for the groups where it would do the most good (teenagers).

I'm not trying to be contrarian - there is a definite war on women from the political right in this country and it is disgusting. What's more of a concern is the fact that they can be so open about it and half the country thinks that it's both (a) not sexist and (b) the right direction in which to move. It bothers the ever-loving hell out of me.

Lord Dimwit:megarian: So I was talking to a few coworkers about this. One lady thought breast feeding in public was inappropriate because "some guys get off on that. There's porn with stuff like breast milk."

Apparently she also has a problem with women in casts. And amputees. And people with feet. And Japan. And Germany. And and and....

(No I didn't mention rule 34. She is in charge of doing the schedule.)

To be fair, doesn't everyone have a problem with the Germans?

I don't have a problem with them as far as porn goes... Ifyaknowwhatimean.

megarian:Lord Dimwit: megarian: So I was talking to a few coworkers about this. One lady thought breast feeding in public was inappropriate because "some guys get off on that. There's porn with stuff like breast milk."

Apparently she also has a problem with women in casts. And amputees. And people with feet. And Japan. And Germany. And and and....

(No I didn't mention rule 34. She is in charge of doing the schedule.)

To be fair, doesn't everyone have a problem with the Germans?

I don't have a problem with them as far as porn goes... Ifyaknowwhatimean.

/andithinkyado//I don't have any idea what I'm talking about

I lived just across the German border for a while and had a lot of German friends. One guy was this short, conservative, unassuming, affable guy. Went to his house one time and saw a sex swing through his bedroom window. Those German's are an odd folk.

Lord Dimwit:hasty ambush: Lord Dimwit: Additionally, even if wait times are longer in Canada than they are in the US (which they are, but not to the degree you imply), Canadians live longer, have lower infant mortality rates, are generally healthier, and suffer from fewer preventable diseases than the average person in the United States. Same goes for almost the entire developed world

I did nto imply those wait times they are the figures from Canada, not my implication.

If you adjust for deaths due to non-helaht care related issues like car accidents (Americans drive more than anyone else), violent crime etc. We actually live longer:

health care isn't the only factor in life expectancy since all manner of things can kill you: crime, war, accident, diet and exercise behavior, etc. , when we control for things likw traffic fatalities and homicides, "The US jumps from 15th on the list with a life expectancy of 75.3 to 1st with a life expectancy of 76.9.

So one of the central and oft-quoted motivations for government control of health care "The US spends more per capita on health care than any other country, and yet has one of the lowest life expectancies of any developed country" is quite misleading.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 372x400]

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 281x400]

Also

[www.nospeedbumps.com image 315x354]

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 480x306]

[www.chipbennett.net image 400x353]

How do you explain the vast difference in infant and maternal mortality rates? It's not like those babies are driving in cars or fighting in wars.

As for the cancer survival rates, insured Americans do indeed tend to survive better and longer than their counterparts in the rest of the developed world - but uninsured Americans have a survival rate lower than that of, for example, Canada. Additionally, those studies have been questioned due to the fact that the populations in question tend to be older. The number of people under the age of 14 in the United States is almost double the number ...

Wait, you mean some individuals who engage in one high risk behavior (not having insurance) also engage in other high risk behaviors (like being in a street gang)?

Lord Dimwitthere is a definite war on women from the political right in this country and it is disgusting. What's more of a concern is the fact that they can be so open about it and half the country thinks that it's both (a) not sexist and (b) the right direction in which to move. It bothers the ever-loving hell out of me.

Semantics and condom gaffes aside, that's what I'm saying, right there. It's dangerous and prevalent and you can see examples of it right here in this thread.

KwameKilstrawberry:hasty ambush: KwameKilstrawberry: kiwimoogle84: I think it's ridiculous that women campaign for equal wages and then expect the men to pay for all their meals out at restaurants. You want equality, or you want to be spoiled. You can't have both.

You're an idiot.

No he is not. Women want it both ways equality and special treatment. "Equal" women are supposedly ready to serve in the combat arms ( infantry, armor, artillery, etc) and face the rigours of combat in those brances but for some reason need special treatment under the law with things like the violence against women act.

Women supposedly want to be treated equal like men except when it comes to spawning. They want all the authority to decide if to spawn or abort but daddy (the evil male whose kid it is also) only gets the responsiblity meaning make sure his wallet is open if women decides to keep his child. Heck all she has to do is claim it is his and he may get stuck paying for it. If they want all the authority let them assume all the responsiblity-from contraception or lack there of to financial responsibility.

You're both idiots for parrotting back the same bullshiat that makes people think of bra-burning when they hear the term 'feminism'. You are both perpetuating an ongoing gender war that is proving to have devestating consequences on women right now, and you in particular, are full of vitriol.

When the government wants to ban condoms, and throw you in jail for knocking a chick up, you might have an understanding of what kind of threat the current political environment is to women. And since we head 1/2 the families in this country, and are partners with almost all the rest, it really is in your best interest to support our wish to make a living, equitable income.

I absolutely do. Absolutely. Go make that money. Just promise then that you'll pay your half on all first dates and hold your own doors open. And all the Curves gyms have to close, if you want to be fair about it. And maybe stop wailing on your boyfriend when he pisses you off and then cry abuse when he restrains you.

I'm a chick, and I think most women bring these problems on themselves. Sorry. Maybe if less women blew a thousand dollars on purses every weekend they'd have more money to pay bills with. I'm not saying it's every case, and there are exemptions to every rule. But as a whole, most women want equality until they want special treatment. I have SEEN THIS IN ACTION.

Profedius:We have a lady here at work that has just had a child and one day there was an issue with her computer so I was looking into the matter when she asked how much longer I was going to be. I told her that I wasn't sure and she informed me that she needed to use her breast pump. I told her that my sister lived with us when she had her first child and I knew how uncomfortable it gets when you do not use the breast pump in a timely manner. I then told her that I would not be offended or embarrassed if she went ahead and used her pump. She thought about it for a second and then said ok, took off her shirt and bra and then attached the cups to her breasts and started the pump. I completed my work explained what the problem was then thanked her for trusting me, complemented her on her breast and told her I was honored to have been able to see them. I find that if you treat women with respect you tend to be allowed to enjoy seeing many of them in some state of undress that you normally would have no hope to see nude.

You are a rare breed. Most women I know probably wouldn't have been comfortable. I'm not sure I would be. It's nice that you were up front though and have her the option.

kiwimoogle84:I absolutely do. Absolutely. Go make that money. Just promise then that you'll pay your half on all first dates and hold your own doors open. And all the Curves gyms have to close, if you want to be fair about it. And maybe stop wailing on your boyfriend when he pisses you off and then cry abuse when he restrains you.

I'm a chick, and I think most women bring these problems on themselves. Sorry. Maybe if less women blew a thousand dollars on purses every weekend they'd have more money to pay bills with. I'm not saying it's every case, and there are exemptions to every rule. But as a whole, most women want equality until they want special treatment. I have SEEN THIS IN ACTION.

umad:kiwimoogle84: I absolutely do. Absolutely. Go make that money. Just promise then that you'll pay your half on all first dates and hold your own doors open. And all the Curves gyms have to close, if you want to be fair about it. And maybe stop wailing on your boyfriend when he pisses you off and then cry abuse when he restrains you.

I'm a chick, and I think most women bring these problems on themselves. Sorry. Maybe if less women blew a thousand dollars on purses every weekend they'd have more money to pay bills with. I'm not saying it's every case, and there are exemptions to every rule. But as a whole, most women want equality until they want special treatment. I have SEEN THIS IN ACTION.

Are you feeling ok? You sound like a different person suddenly.

I see both points of view. Women work hard and bear the physical repercussions of breeding, therefore leave for it is acceptable. And a lot of women HAVE to work these days for a dual income home. So when they take ONLY six weeks off to bond with their kid, they're really not taking that much time, all things considered.

However, I think a lot of women who go around demanding equality in all things have some real holes to their logic. If you want to be the wage earner, then you can pay for HIS meals. And buy your own damn jewelry. You can't be 100% equal but still expect him to lavish you on valentine's day unless you give back equally as much, which, sadly, most women don't do.

Lord Dimwit:megarian: Lord Dimwit: megarian: So I was talking to a few coworkers about this. One lady thought breast feeding in public was inappropriate because "some guys get off on that. There's porn with stuff like breast milk."

Apparently she also has a problem with women in casts. And amputees. And people with feet. And Japan. And Germany. And and and....

(No I didn't mention rule 34. She is in charge of doing the schedule.)

To be fair, doesn't everyone have a problem with the Germans?

I don't have a problem with them as far as porn goes... Ifyaknowwhatimean.

/andithinkyado//I don't have any idea what I'm talking about

I lived just across the German border for a while and had a lot of German friends. One guy was this short, conservative, unassuming, affable guy. Went to his house one time and saw a sex swing through his bedroom window. Those German's are an odd folk.

Yeah. Every time I think I'm kind of "off" sexually, I just change myregular Google to German key words and POOF! I'm normal!

Cuba also uses a different standard which Michael Moore failed to mention in his propaganda piece

"In the U.S. we have many intensive care nurseries that save babies as young as 22 weeks gestation. In the U.S. if a tiny preemie is born at 22 wks, or 25 wks., and lives even a few minutes, it is counted as a live birth and the death goes into the infant mortality figures".

A customer of mine was the IT Manager for her office, and she mentioned how she just used the server closet to pump because she was already the only one with a key for it. Now that I've read in this thread how loud they are it kind of makes sense.

jdmac:When will the democrats stop their WAR ON WOMEN?(Oh, wait, we only use that term when we are trying to win elections against evil republicans. No matter what, democrats get a free pass)

Actually, the Obama White House went above and beyond what they were required to do; she's not employed by the WH, she's employed by Yahoo.

Also, I think there's a big difference between not being able to find her a dedicated room for breast pumping in already-tight and highly secure quarters but still giving her the best that could be found versus having every male member of your Senate caucus voting to allow rape to be investigated by the rapists.