'With' All the/this 'Biatch-Slapping', 'you' folk- 'apparently' need to Do, could 'you' please, nominate a 'Prime' frequency for 'this' Virgin Gig- as, in which 'thread'- 'you' nominate for the purpose of 'THOSE' IN 'IT'.....

They can't have been paying leasing costs for months or years , maybe five aircraft lessors each owed $ 400, 000 , 000

That is serious coin & not great form on the part of Virgin

How is the Airline able to fly aeroplanes around now( & incur further maintenance costs , devalue) that they don't own and have not paid lease fees on & are not currently paying any lease fees on.

Is that not a bit cheeky ?

Surely the right thing to do would be return the aircraft to their owner

This is my understanding of Admin.

1. not my area but how can you say abbra caddabbra all debts disappear: You don't. The Administrators go to the creditors and put a proposal to them, that usually means a haircut on the debt because the company is unlikely to be a going concern. The creditors vote on the proposal and the majority of the creditors (as in majority of the debt, not numbers of voters) carry the day. From what I've read it'll be less than 10c in the $.

2. I find the amount owed to aircraft lessors incredible , nearly $ 2 000, 000, 000 or the cost of 20 A320 neos. They can't have been paying leasing costs for months or years , maybe five aircraft lessors each owed $ 400, 000 , 000: Not completely sure on this, but I believe the debt owed to the lessors is not for past use, but for the whole future of the lease agreement, so if there was 3 yrs left on an A/C lease, that debt is countered. So as I understand it the lease debt is for lease costs up to the end of the leases.

If liquidated the money received goes to the debt holders, but the unsecured debt holders (likely everyone bar the banks) are paid out AFTER the secured debt holders, so unsecured are likely to receive only Cs in the $, if anything! The AOC is still there I believe, but of what value would it be worth? The cheapest and quickest way (you'd assume) to start up would be to do a deal with the Admin and buy VA. The assets themselves in this environment would be unlikely to receive anything like book value, who'd want to buy used 737s atm; what would spares be worth, ground equipment etc? A likely Ansett style sell off which took 10 yrs and made the 2 Marks very wealthy!

OK Hoosten , what exactly do you really know about the “users on this board” ? In almost 40 years in the game I’ve flown with graduates in Law , Medicine , Veterinary Science and a few Accountants as well. They had all decided that the choice they had made at Year 12 had been a mistake . They enjoyed flying better. Maybe they will have to go back from whence they came. Then there were the graduates of the Empire Test Pilot School and US Marine Naval aviators. Etc. Etc. All humble. Never told you unless you asked. Myself, I only have a humble BSc ( Hons.)

So spare me the condescending cr#p.

What , pray tell , are your special qualifications that entitle you to preach to the masses ?

George, there is a difference between being a graduate and actually practicing. When I read some of the comments here on business matters, I am reminded of what some of you derisively call “spotters”. I have direct, costly and often very painful experience of that which I speak of. Particularly people in business purporting to be things they are not. I fully expect so does Deloittes.

I hope Deloittes has a handful of genuine buyers of Virgin as a going concern out of the “twenty”. I assume they are diligently checking right now.

Are you one of these people who think “anyone” with an AICD ticket or similar can be a public company Director or CEO?

OK Hoosten, what exactly do you really know about the “users on this board"

Ok George, I know what a fair amount of what you do or have done, through PM conversations, what you've revealed on here and observation. You, I reckon I pretty much know your MO but I'll spare you the psychoanalysis on a public board, can do it via a PM if you like?

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In almost 40 years in the game I’ve flown with graduates in Law , Medicine , Veterinary Science and a few Accountants as well.

Pray tell? Tell me what a Lawyer can tell us about the financials of an airline in admin? Unless they were a commercial lawyer of course. I've seen plenty of bankrupt Doctors, Lawyers and probably Vets, maybe a lesser cross section of Accountants. But maybe one or two of them as well.

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They had all decided that the choice they had made at Year 12 had been a mistake . They enjoyed flying better. Maybe they will have to go back from whence they came. Then there were the graduates of the Empire Test Pilot School and US Marine Naval aviators. Etc. Etc.

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All humble. Never told you unless you asked.

That makes any of them qualified how? To talk the shit that's been talked on these threads for the past month or two? I'm pretty careful in these situations, there's a truckload of folk that are on the edge at the moment. I read of a Virgin Husband and Wife pilot combo, both facing the chop, with a young family. But, we have every expert in the world on here telling them they're done for, from a lot of Boomer a-holes, on their pension, safe. Or from the other side, got 6 months more cash in the bank, thinking they're safe.

Maybe I should have been a little clearer, if you're not qualified to talk on it, how about showing a bit of common decency toward these people.

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Myself, I only have a humble BSc ( Hons.)

Not too proud yourself I see. Maybe you could put your degree (with Hons.) to work by volunteering at the local hospital? I see by your post history you have plenty of time.

I wouldn't swap your quals for mine in a heartbeat. I'm happy to PM ya if ya want, but you're more than likely to breach 'the code' and post them here as has happened before.

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So spare me the condescending cr#p.

Nah, just STFU about the things you know nothing of.

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What , pray tell , are your special qualifications that entitle you to preach to the masses ?

As above, old chap. Further, I tend not to post about shit I know nothing of. Now, spend the next three or four hours searching my post history for a trip up, off ya go.

i’m out of this. Pilots as a group contain some of the most vicious individuals I have ever seen.. Maybe that is why Aviation in australia is such a sad and over regulated profession.

For the record, There may be any number of “buyers” in Deloittes “twenty” and it is possible that some of them have the most diabolically bad agendas you could possibly imagine.
‘ Deloittes would know this. I know this. I hope ferchrissake it all works out.

However I’m done here, with PPRuNe, because I have never seen a less supportive, more vindictive, useless so called “profession”t in my entire life - with one or two exceptions of members of course.

You deserve your regulator. You deserve what happens to you, because you have no charity or fellow feeling whatsoever. It probably results from a totally unhealthy combination of the demands of flying and the Australian character. The result is toxic.

i’m out of this. Pilots as a group contain some of the most vicious individuals I have ever seen.. Maybe that is why Aviation in australia is such a sad and over regulated profession.

For the record, There may be any number of “buyers” in Deloittes “twenty” and it is possible that some of them have the most diabolically bad agendas you could possibly imagine.
‘ Deloittes would know this. I know this. I hope ferchrissake it all works out.

However I’m done here, with PPRuNe, because I have never seen a less supportive, more vindictive, useless so called “profession”t in my entire life - with one or two exceptions of members of course.

You deserve your regulator. You deserve what happens to you, because you have no charity or fellow feeling whatsoever. It probably results from a totally unhealthy combination of the demands of flying and the Australian character. The result is toxic.

back to topic, fingers crossed for a positive outcome for all VA staff. The sky needs the velocity call sign (or whatever company name may be used instead) chin up everyone, it feels like we are slowly on the way out of this mess.

The one thing I have found on Prooooone that's consistent is that its entertaining! None of us can singularly do a damned thing about the goings on in the aviation business, it is what it is despite all the crying all the vitriol and all the wild predictions!

"i’m out of this. Pilots as a group contain some of the most vicious individuals I have ever seen.. Maybe that is why Aviation in australia is such a sad and over regulated profession."

Of the 5 or 6000-odd airline pilots in Australia I'd reckon there's probably less than 50 or 60 who post regularly and passionately here on PPRuNe. To suggest that this 1% represents a common sentiment in the industry or has any has any impact on the regulatory or industrial landscape as a whole is drawing a particularly long bow…….

Thats the second time someone has stated this. What particular insight do you refer to?

His constant references to his overseas travel? His bizarre ideas to blackmail political candidates to support GA? His constant references to himself when topics are about you know, actual flying? His constant references to people he knows that give him "special insight" into government, politics and business? His pathological hatred of all things Qantas? His pathological hatred of all things CASA and ATSB? His paranoia of all things Qantas, CASA and ATSB?

etc,etc etc....

Or to put that another way, no one was interested in being subservient to his narcissistic postings so he has stormed off in a huff.