"Government seems to operate on the principle that if even one individual is incapable of using his freedom competently, no one can be allowed to be free." -- Harry Browne

"Throughout history, government has proved to be the chief instrument for thwarting man's liberty. Government represents power in the hands of some men to control and regulate the lives of other men." --Barry Goldwater

"The nine worst words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" --Ronald Reagan

"The constitution is an instrument, above all, for LIMITING the functions of government." --Barry Goldwater

"There is no such thing as a good tax." --Winston Churchill

"It's wrong for someone to confiscate your money, give it to someone else, and call that 'compassion.'" -- Harry Browne

"Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery." --Calvin Coolidge

"We don't have a trillion dollar debt because we haven't taxed enough; we have a trillion dollar debt because we spend too much." -- Ronald Reagan

"For those looking for security, be forewarned that there's nothing more insecure than a political promise." - Harry Browne

"Today neither of our two parties maintains a meaningful commitment to the principle of States' Rights. The 10th Amendment is not a 'general assumption' but a rule of law. States rights mean that states have a right to act or not to act, as they see fit, in areas reserved to them." --Barry Goldwater

"A little government involvement is just as dangerous as a lot — because the first leads inevitably to the second." - Harry Browne

"There will never be a free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived, and treats him accordingly." --Henry David Thoreau

"A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away."--Barry Goldwater

"You know, if government were a product, selling it would be illegal. Government is a health hazard. Governments have killed many more people than cigarettes or unbuckled seat belts ever have." --PJ O'Rourke

"You can't give the government the power to do good without also giving it the power to do bad — in fact, to do anything it wants." -- Harry browne

"Never blame a legislative body for not doing something. When they do nothing, that don't hurt anybody. When they do something is when they become dangerous." --Will Rogers

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.That government is best which governs least."--Thomas Jefferson

"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where Government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." --Ronald Reagan

"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people." --Theodore Roosevelt

"Left-wing politicians take away your liberty in the name of children and of fighting poverty, while right-wing politicians do it in the name of family values and fighting drugs. Either way, government gets bigger and you become less free." -- Harry Browne

"Abortion is a states' rights issue. Education is a states' right issue. Medicinal marijuana is a states' rights issue. Gay marraige is a states' rights issue. Assisted suicide- like Terri Schiavo- is a states' rights issue. Come to think of it, almost every issue is a states' rights issue. Let's get the federal government out of our lives." -- Wayne Allyn Root

"More laws, less justice.” — Marcus Tullius Ciceroca

“Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it.” — George Bernard Shaw

“In general, the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other.” — Voltaire

"Government is good at one thing: It knows how to break your legs, hand you a crutch, and say, "See, if it weren't for the government, you wouldn't be able to walk." -- Harry Browne

"When the mafia comes to a businessman and asks for 10% of what he makes for 'protection," we rightfully call that extortion. It's a serious crime and we throw that bum in prison for years. But the I.R.S. comes to that same businessman, asks for 50% and they don't even offer protection in return. We call that legal taxation. It turns out that the mafia offers a much better deal." -- Wayne Allyn Root

“A government, which robs Peter to pay Paul, can always depend on the support of Paul.” --George Bernard Shaw

"When the government’s boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence." -- Gary Lloyd

"Liberals want the government to be your Mommy. Conservatives want government to be your Daddy. Libertarians want it to treat you like an adult." -- Andre Marrou

"Republicans don't want anyone having more fun than they do, and the Democrats don't want anyone making more money than they do. Libertarians want you to make money and have fun." -- Andre Marrou

"This country is a one-party country. Half of it is called Republican and half is called Democrat. It doesn't make any difference. All the really good ideas belong to the Libertarians." -- Hugh Downs

"Government should be of the people, by the people, for the people. What part of that do politicians and government bureaucrats not understand? Government has no right to keep secrets from the people. The people are paying for it. It's THEIR government. They have a right to know everything going on." -- Wayne Allyn Root

"Whatever the issue, let freedom offer us a hundred choices, instead of having government force one answer on everyone." -- Harry Browne

Look, I'm sympathetic to many of those quotes, but I've got to say as a liberal of the classic variety myself, that this perhaps isn't the best kind of post for this kind of forum. What would be more 'enjoyed' by a libertarian community, say like the one on Livejournal, isn't going to be 'enjoyed' here, and even there, a list of quotes by itself, isn't likely to garner a very positive response, since it doesn't really spark meaningful discussion. There, it's just a scattershot post that few if any will disagree with, here, it looks like baiting.

Quotes are best left for the sigs below our posts, where it instantly gives other, newer readers a clearer indication of your point of view. It has context that's lacking in a random post like this.

Just FYI

P.s. Not saying anything about posting a single or a couple of quotes, just try to give them some context and add your own thoughts of what they mean. It's better at starting a good debate than a laundry list of quotes with no further thought added by the author of the post. It also shows you've invested a bit of yourself into the discussion.

« Last Edit: August 30, 2008, 23:27:54 EDT by jerseycajun »

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"If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?" — Frederic Bastiat - from The Law

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all." - Frederic Bastiat - The Law

Actually, the government DOES offer protection in return for paying your taxes. They call it many names, including but not limited to "police department" "fire department" and of course, "armed forces".

This is looking more and more like a libertarian Pharmmajor every day...

Not sure what Pharmmajor means, but if you're intimating that libertarians are taking over the board, then I sincerely doubt it. We're just a very vocal minority

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"If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?" — Frederic Bastiat - from The Law

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all." - Frederic Bastiat - The Law

This is looking more and more like a libertarian Pharmmajor every day...

Not sure what Pharmmajor means, but if you're intimating that libertarians are taking over the board, then I sincerely doubt it. We're just a very vocal minority

Pharmmajor (I may have misspelled that) was a vocal anti-Israel (or was it anti-Palestine? There were two of them, railing against each other) member of this board. He did wacky shit like this thread all the time. It was... self-defeating. The people who bothered to read said topics and reply to them did so with the greatest of derision. Most of us ignored him until he was banned for trolling.

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And if i catch you comin' back my wayI'm gonna serve it to youAnd that ain't what you want to hearBut that's what I'll do -- "Seven Nation Army", The White Stripes

No problem. Just bear in mind the particular audience you're speaking to, and adjust the tone accordingly.

This has been your pre-recorded netiquette lesson for Sunday, August 31. Please tip your instructor generously

Medivh: Now that you mention it in detail, the name is ringing a bell.

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"If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?" — Frederic Bastiat - from The Law

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all." - Frederic Bastiat - The Law

Pharmmajor was a member of the board who was the self appointed declarer of anti-semitism, which he defined as not supporting the state of Israel 110%. He was banned from the board after he declared us all anti-semites in one of his posts.

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"If it had not been for the discontent of a few fellows who had not been satisfied with their conditions, you would still be living in caves. Intelligent discontent is the mainspring of civilization.

Progress is born of agitation. It is agitation or stagnation." -Eugene Debs (1855- 1926)

Ya. I'm willing to go back to Libertarian-Socialist Wars Round 2: Electric Boogaloo, if only to end this atrocious Holy War/Crusade discussion currently running, but please, make real arguments, not collections of inflammatory quotes from dead people I don't care about or care for.

Ah, thanks for filling me in on this pharmmajor guy. I don't want to be accused of trolling, so I'll tone down the heavy pro-libertarian tracts. However, this doesn't mean I'll stop posting and defending my viewpoints and voicing dissent for opinions I disagree with (though I will strive to make sure they are constructive arguments and not just shouting matches. Promise.)

Defending is fine. Being very passionate about your platform is fine (just look at Psy). Disagreeing with everyone about everything is fine too, were you to do that. Posting random topics that are nothing more than potential flame bait is where it gets problematic.

(That said, I have to admit, I tl;dr'd your first post here.)

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And if i catch you comin' back my wayI'm gonna serve it to youAnd that ain't what you want to hearBut that's what I'll do -- "Seven Nation Army", The White Stripes

We begin with a quote from famous CEO Nwabudike Morgan: "Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant. Need as well as greed have followed us to the stars, and the rewards of wealth still await those wise enough to recognize this deep thrumming of our common pulse."

Human behavior determines the economic actions taken, because it all relates to the primitive struggle to survive. The opposing furies of interest in the self survival and interest in group survival. Obtaining of resources, territorial instinct, and the pack mentality all play.

But this is all quite vague and theoretical, let us analyze at a simpler level, board games.

Capitalism is akin to monopoly. You join in the rat race and run around the board collecting money and property and trying to own everything while putting everyone else in debtor's prison. Good, clean fun and the best and luckiest player solidly wins!

Communism is more like one of those non-competitive educational games, very boring for adults and something that no one really enjoys playing after the newness wears off.

Communism is self-destructive, it is obvious and well-documented that the USSR collapsed because of it. People do not care to work hard or "try" when there is no incentive. What is not so obvious, in part because it has not happened recently enough, is that Capitalism is self-destructive as well.

With non-competitive games, it collapses because everyone loses interest and stops trying, just like the gears of the communist machine grind to a halt after the rush of red revolution collapse. With capitalism and monopoly, eventually someone WINS. They hold all the properties, they carry all the get out of jail free cards, they have all the money. When this happens you find you have fundamentally changed, from capitalist competition to feudalist monarchy.

Now Adam Smith, classical economist and hard-core believer in capitalism, would say that this is where the top-dog owner of everything would become complacent and be torn apart by other people who were willing to work hard. But that is circumvented if the top-dog owns *everything*. Once the "winner" is found then it doesn't matter how incompetent he is, every dollar that is made by a new start-up business will be owed as interest to the man who loaned it, the emperor of this brave new world.

Now this theoretical singularity of money and power is unlikely to ever occur because communist revolutions will likely happen first, but the ghost of it, the foreshadowing of what could be is seen in every local economy dominated by a Wal-Mart and every third-world country dominated by first-world business interests.

It can also be seen in the past, and the formation of the earlier monarchies. If human behavior truly is economic behavior then the pointed swords of a man with a military and his extortive methods of "protection" that turn a tribe and its chief into nobility and a king are rather short logical steps.

So what's my point? What is the "right" ecnomic system? Shoot, I don't know, my headache from sinus pressure is back and I need a nap. I will tell you the perfect economic system is a game of capitalism that re-sets every generation but somehow keeps anyone from realizing that it resets so they try and strive just as hard every time. I'll tell you how to achieve it shortly after you give me a unified field theory, a flying car, and my unicorn named Sparkles who devours the souls of my enemies.