bluntedinmichigan wrote: jesus christ man ...whats to like about him......

1. hes on a power trip

2.<what i belive> with all these tax cuts<supposedly gonna happen> and a war......uhhhhhh we better go steal some gold for another country because i dont see where all this moneys gonna come from....

3. get rid of osama before sadamm

4. north korea should be a higher priority then saddam

you realize that our currency is not backed by gold anymore right?....that's..like way old news

and that proves my argument even more....as the value of dollar drops

Fri Jan 31, 2003 11:32 am

Patrick

Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 28

well

All I'll say is your voice is your right....but, and this is going to be so corny I'm already cringing as I prepare to type it....but

united, we stand: Divided, we fall....sorry, I know, I know...

but seriously....to HATE the president....eh....a little too strong, to hate what he's doing....ok...that's one thing but to just outright hate him....too much, unless you aren't American, if you're Canadien fine....Mexican sure why not...but if you're a US citizen...it's dangerous. Maybe one person hating the president isn't...but, no actually I think even one person is dangerous

Not to be too cocky, and in war you never know...but it's like the Tampa Bay Defense against teh Detroit Lions offense for us to go in there...they could get one, maybe two first downs....there won't be many American lives lost....at least on paper...you never know in a fight what could happen....but if you look at the stats...my God we'll massacre them...in a city, YES...we've trained for that for the past probably 13 years....our forces are ready.

P A T

Fri Jan 31, 2003 11:51 am

futuristxen

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19377
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt

when you say that we will massacre "them" I hope you realize that we are talking mostly civilians. and maybe we don't care about arab deaths--but I guarantee the rest of the region isn't going to be too happy with the images of US soldiers shooting women and children--I mean how do you think you would feel if belgium invaded the US because of Bush being a dick and gunning down half of the people in New York? If you think that US soldiers won't be shooting women and children then you're just being foolish. If they want to win they will, because those people are going to be defending their homes with whatever they can against a foriegn invader, it doesn't matter how bad your leader is, you don't take kindly to foriegn invasion.

If you've been paying attention to the Israeli Army and it's tactics against the Palistinians--it's going to be like that just more escalated.

a complete bloody mess that could be avoided if calmer less greed driven heads were used....that's frustrating.

Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:28 pm

Patrick

Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 28

I think

You've misjudged how we fight in a city....we send in teh small group forces first...spec ops and such...

Then when teh CNN cameras are there you see our huge tanks rolling through the streets...

Don't be fooled, we are the most equipped, technologically advanced, smartest military in teh world....do women and children die in war...yeah they do....would even our spec ops guys kill a woman (if they had to, of course they would...), but it won't just be our whole army roaming the streets of Baghdad to find Saddam...I doubt Saddam would even be IN his palace in Baghdad once our troops were that far....he'd probably be in hiding elsewhere (of course there will still be resistance)....

But I think the media has confused how we fight in teh cities...it's not just troops running around the corners of buildings....that would cost many lives, as has been learned already....No if we go to conflicts, my guess is we already have people near where they'll need to be....not attached with the huge Army/ Marine forces....

that's my take...at least from what I've seen us train on....now if a different strategy is posed by our military leaders...then ok...but, from what I've seen, you can't go into a city (initially) guns blaring...

P A T R I C K

Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:44 pm

Patrick

Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 28

sorry

future, I also must say I do care about any deaths in war....you pray for surrender when you're out there, not blood-shed, and thankfully, at least in teh Gulf War...alot of the ill-trained Iraqi troops knew they had no chance and surrendered or fled without struggle....there were numerous sites that the Iraqis had abandoned by the time our troops got there....

anyway, I do care....and I definately don't want to see civilians die....me being in teh military...it's what I'm sworn to protect.....it's also what the rules of war call for...there's alot of skepticism when it comes to Americans and they're government or any government agency....so probably lots of you are like, "yeah right, our military doesn't commit war crimes...face reality"....and I'll agree, we have committed war crimes, and very well may do so again in any conflict we're in....but I know one thing, I'd rather have it be our military in there for the Iraqi civilians sake, then anyone else....including the Iraqi militray....

P A T

Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:50 pm

Patrick

Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 28

ummmm

I'd like to say I do know the difference between they're their and there....sometimes when I type I just go to fast....heh....you all know what i mean though.

P A T R I C K

Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:52 pm

Dee

Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872

I can hate the president all I want.

It doesn't mean that I like Saddam, or that I hate GW more than Saddam..I certainly don't.

But I still hate George Bush, and I reserve my right to hate him.

Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:04 pm

futuristxen

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19377
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt

Patrick, I'd like to believe our military was that good--but I don't know where the precedence is. Maybe the operation in afghanistan--but I couldn't really tell you because no one really covered what happened there(or still does)--whereas in this situation a lot of Sadaams defense is going to be in showing the world what really goes on or at least the arab world.

When we went into Panama to get Noriega we left a ton of Panamanian civilians in our wake, dead homeless starving. Our operation in Somalia didn't exactly work out too great either.

I think we need to be careful and not just assume the iraqi people are just going to surrender their country over to the United States. They've been living under Sadaam's rule much longer than the the people in Afghanistan had lived under the Taliban.

Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:16 pm

Succintroundabout

Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 130
Location: Saskatoon, Canada

futuristxen wrote: Patrick, I'd like to believe our military was that good--but I don't know where the precedence is. Maybe the operation in afghanistan--but I couldn't really tell you because no one really covered what happened there(or still does)--whereas in this situation a lot of Sadaams defense is going to be in showing the world what really goes on or at least the arab world.

When we went into Panama to get Noriega we left a ton of Panamanian civilians in our wake, dead homeless starving. Our operation in Somalia didn't exactly work out too great either.

I think we need to be careful and not just assume the iraqi people are just going to surrender their country over to the United States. They've been living under Sadaam's rule much longer than the the people in Afghanistan had lived under the Taliban.

One more reason to surrender all the more quickly. Seriously, I can't see soldiers from any Western country PURPOSEFULLY killing civilians anymore. If the situation got fucked up like in Vietnam that could happen though; of course the American military would have to be losing for that to happen.[not likely]

Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:43 pm

ctrlfreak

Joined: 23 Jul 2002
Posts: 483

For some reason, I never have to wipe my ass when I shit. Does that mean Im healthy? Unhealthy? Or that I just have dry shit? Anyway...

I hate George, Dick, Colin, Donald, Saddam, Uday, Tony, Richard Simmons etc...etc...ALL equally. They are all evil. Right now, I can see Bush and company with a model of Baghdad and a bunch of G.I. Joe figurines, planning their attack. They are the spawn of Satan.

Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:51 pm

futuristxen

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19377
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt

Parallax wrote: For some reason, I never have to wipe my ass when I shit. Does that mean Im healthy? Unhealthy? Or that I just have dry shit? Anyway...

I hate George, Dick, Colin, Donald, Saddam, Uday, Tony, Richard Simmons etc...etc...ALL equally. They are all evil. Right now, I can see Bush and company with a model of Baghdad and a bunch of G.I. Joe figurines, planning their attack. They are the spawn of Satan.

I actually feel bad for Colin Powell, because he's the unlucky bastard who has to go and try the whole diplomacy thing while Rumsfield and Everyone else sits back and shoots their mouth off making his job really hard.

But I would think he knew what he was getting into when he signed up. I just see him as somewhat dignified but being consistently embarrassed by policy changes.

And I like how he stood up to bush on affirmative action unlike that bitch condoleeza rice(even though admittedly she got her job through affirmative action)...

As for the rest of y'all. I wish I was as utopian in my approach to war as you guys are. I think we are in danger of underestimating the situation, if not our generals, then our soldiers and our citizens. I don't think we are prepared right now for if things go badly.

But maybe I'm wrong. We're going to find out here in a bit.

Fri Jan 31, 2003 4:42 pm

ctrlfreak

Joined: 23 Jul 2002
Posts: 483

I dont think we can be fully prepared for war, ever. People will die. Some innocent, some inbetween assholes. The bad guys will live. I agree with what you are saying. If a war happens, people will wish they had given a shit by the end of it.

Fri Jan 31, 2003 5:40 pm

quasifoto

Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 975
Location: Albany

and i feel bad for those unlucky people who thought the easy way to an education was to sign up for the reserves, thinking they'd never be put to war. a guy from my wife's school got pulled and he was really upset. he didn't want to go fight a war for bush's agenda. he left his family to go fight some bullshit war that he doesn't believe in. "bush is the spawn of satan"- great t-shirt.