Guys, I know the Racial Tensions thread quickly escalated, and many of us (myself included) probably went a little too far. But I want to start a fresh thread because something about the Chris Lane murder story is just eating at me. Obviously, it's an awful tragedy and it frightens me how the hell kids could be in a situation where they're "just bored" and want to kill someone for fun.

Last night, a friend got really drunk and started getting political, asking where's President Obama on this story vs that of Martin/Zimmerman. Then I ran into a Facebook thread from an old high school acquaintance where things really got interesting. His name will remain anonymous, but he wrote the following:

"R.I.P. Christopher Lane. It's a shame that Obama's son wouldn't look like you so this story will be swept under the rug ASAP but hopefully your government doesn't let it go even though our pathetic excuse for one most assuredly will. By all accounts, you were a solid human being. It's a shame that the racist scum bag douches who committed the crime can only do some jail time and the celebrities as well as our PIECE OF SHIT president who facilitate these types of atrocities can't be punished until after death. #realamericantragedy"

I've heard so many things about how the media is biased and won't cover this with much intensity because the victim is white. I'm very liberal-minded, but even I am having some struggles on what to believe here. And that's why I bring this here. Many of you are far more well-versed in politics and history than I am. I could use some help understanding all of this.

This isn't really analogous with the Zimmerman case other than REVERSE RACISM TROLOLOL.

Zimmerman was initially not charged, which, given the circumstances of the shooting, was guaranteed to arouse suspicion. That is what thrust the case into the spotlight--the appearance that a white man shot a black kid and got off scot free. Unless I'm mistaken, the killers in this particular scenario were arrested rather quickly. Unless someone wants to argue that this constitutes disproportionately harsh treatment of black suspects, I don't see an issue here.

_________________The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.

Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:16 pm

KWRoss

Director

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:37 amPosts: 1180Location: Laurel, MD

Re: The Chris Lane Murder, and a conflict

Ken wrote:

This isn't really analogous with the Zimmerman case other than REVERSE RACISM TROLOLOL.

Zimmerman was initially not charged, which, given the circumstances of the shooting, was guaranteed to arouse suspicion. That is what thrust the case into the spotlight--the appearance that a white man shot a black kid and got off scot free. Unless I'm mistaken, the killers in this particular scenario were arrested rather quickly. Unless someone wants to argue that this constitutes disproportionately harsh treatment of black suspects, I don't see an issue here.

Yes, they were arrested right away and will likely serve jail time whereas Zimmerman got off with no penalty. That's my argument. But people get really pissy about how the media will only cover white-on-black crime with intensity and not black-on-white or same-race murders. So yeah, they scream "reverse racism" at the top of their lungs. I suppose I could counter with how all the reports of missing white children become national news whereas missing children of other races are largely swept under the rug. Does that make any sense?

This isn't really analogous with the Zimmerman case other than REVERSE RACISM TROLOLOL.

Zimmerman was initially not charged, which, given the circumstances of the shooting, was guaranteed to arouse suspicion. That is what thrust the case into the spotlight--the appearance that a white man shot a black kid and got off scot free. Unless I'm mistaken, the killers in this particular scenario were arrested rather quickly. Unless someone wants to argue that this constitutes disproportionately harsh treatment of black suspects, I don't see an issue here.

Yes, they were arrested right away and will likely serve jail time whereas Zimmerman got off with no penalty. That's my argument. But people get really pissy about how the media will only cover white-on-black crime with intensity and not black-on-white or same-race murders. So yeah, they scream "reverse racism" at the top of their lungs. I suppose I could counter with how all the reports of missing white children become national news whereas missing children of other races are largely swept under the rug. Does that make any sense?

That does make sense, it's the same thing in cases of bullying, Phoebe Prince's suicide was all over the news, yet the bullying related suicide of Carl Walker Hoover, who happened to be a minority, was all but ignored by the news.

Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:01 am

Ken

Director

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pmPosts: 1743

Re: The Chris Lane Murder, and a conflict

It's gotten plenty of coverage. We're obviously here talking about it. It's been in the news. I don't know what else people expect from it, without some sort of additional angle to make it anything more than an unfortunately routine murder story.

And as long as we're complaining about people not complaining about stuff, why aren't people complaining more about black on black violence? Isn't that the most common kind, and therefore the most underreported?

_________________The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.

Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:09 am

CasualDad

Cinematographer

Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:19 pmPosts: 623

Re: The Chris Lane Murder, and a conflict

Black on black crime is extremely under reported at the national level. Some (I am one) argue that it is deliberately ignored by a news media with a strong liberal bias because almost all of it occurs in regions of the country that have been long dominated by liberal politics and policies. It is reported heavily at the local level in my region (Memphis, TN), most often in a straight forward and factual way. At times reported with inferences that even more attention and money should be poured into the current social policy strategies.

I don't really care if there is a racial element or not to the Chris Lane murder. I just hope the facts of the case can be found out and that proper judgement will be made from them.

Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:42 am

Vexer

Auteur

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pmPosts: 3606Location: Zion, IL

Re: The Chris Lane Murder, and a conflict

CasualDad wrote:

Black on black crime is extremely under reported at the national level. Some (I am one) argue that it is deliberately ignored by a news media with a strong liberal bias because almost all of it occurs in regions of the country that have been long dominated by liberal politics and policies. It is reported heavily at the local level in my region (Memphis, TN), most often in a straight forward and factual way. At times reported with inferences that even more attention and money should be poured into the current social policy strategies.

I don't really care if there is a racial element or not to the Chris Lane murder. I just hope the facts of the case can be found out and that proper judgement will be made from them.

I think all news media is biased against black-on-black crime, not just ones with a liberal slant, i've sure as hell never seen Faux news ever say anything about black-on-black crime.

Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:14 pm

KWRoss

Director

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:37 amPosts: 1180Location: Laurel, MD

Re: The Chris Lane Murder, and a conflict

Vexer wrote:

I think all news media is biased against black-on-black crime, not just ones with a liberal slant, i've sure as hell never seen Faux news ever say anything about black-on-black crime.

Right. Typically, I never hear about it unless it's used as a rebuttal against the amount of coverage that possibly racially-motivated killings of blacks receive.

And as for those screaming at Obama for commenting on Trayon Martin and not Chris Lane...... I think that the President, being a black man, obviously had a far more visceral and emotional connection to the former story than the latter. That's no one's fault, really; it's just how a lot of us are wired. We feel more empathy when someone we can relate to a little more is victimized. Plus, whites dominate most of Hollywood's material anyway, including TV and movies. It's not as though the ship of White Privilege is leaking like the Titanic.

So yeah, if you're conservative, and the first thing you do after a tragedy is bash Obama, wouldn't that be politicizing said tragedy, which is something you HATE when liberals do it?

The day after the Sandy Hook shootings, I overheard Rush Limbaugh (on a coworker's radio) say "How will Obama politicize the shootings?" My immediate reaction was, He doesn't have to, because you just did it for him.

How? How could he not see the irony?

If there's anything I've learned in my time on Earth, it's that the major media outlets have no significant bias toward any particular political philosophy. They do have a bias towards certain moneyed interests, which is the inevitable result of all the TV stations, major movie distributors, news outlets, etc. being owned by the same handful of enormous corporate parent conglomerates. There is no profit motive in covering uncontroversial crimes, unless uncontroversial crimes are the only crimes to report. And they rarely are.

_________________The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.

Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:41 pm

CasualDad

Cinematographer

Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:19 pmPosts: 623

Re: The Chris Lane Murder, and a conflict

I am the opposite in that I believe almost all news is covered these days with a strong bias one way or the other. The President has no business getting involved in local crime matters. He might just as well have said any of the daily homicides that occur in Chicago could have been his son or daughter, or even that one of the alledged perps in the Chris Lane murder could have been his son.

Vexer's point about Fox news is completely wrong. They have been all over black on black crime since the Zimmerman trial. Not because they care about black on black crime, but to point out, for political reasons, the hypocrisy of those hyping one incident where a white (hispanic) killed a black guy while totally ignoring the thousands of black people being killed each year in places like Chicago, St. Louis, Memphis, Detroit, New Orleans, Los Angeles, ...

All places where the liberal social experiment has been on display for decades.

Most people don't care about black on black crime because most people just don't care if one gang banger kills another. Just the same as they don't care when a Latino gang member kills another, or when the Italian or Irish mobsters kill each other. Sometimes such things get elevated to the caring stage when innocent bystanders get caught in the crossfire, but then you realize that most of this occurs in areas where the police aren't welcome and where the criminals are often defended by the neighbors. You can only take so many stories on the news where momma and neighbors all say Johnny wouldn't do something like that when Johnny is 17 and already has a rap sheet a page and a half long before you stop caring. I feel very sorry for those forced to grow up in those conditions due to economic circumstance that they are completely powerless to do anything, and have huge admiration for those who somehow overcome and escape it. Being poor is difficult enough. To be poor and not have a good family foundation or community support makes it so much tougher.

Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:01 am

Ken

Director

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pmPosts: 1743

Re: The Chris Lane Murder, and a conflict

It sounds like you're implying that the policies of self-styled liberal are causing crime in urban areas.

_________________The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.

Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:18 am

Vexer

Auteur

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pmPosts: 3606Location: Zion, IL

Re: The Chris Lane Murder, and a conflict

I for one am very glad Obama said something about what happened, IMO it really needed to be said.

Fox news dosen't give a rat's ass about black-on-black crime, so you say they've been reporting it since the Zimmerman trial eh? Did they ever mention it before then? To me that reeks of suspicion, it seems like they're only reporting on it in order to justify Zimmerman's murder, it's like they're saying "see, all black people are hoodlums, so Zimmerman was right to kill Trayvon!" Real classy, but I wouldn't expect anything less from Faux, they're the real hypocrites.

WTF is this "social experiment" you're talking about? That just sounds like weasel words that don't really mean anything.

Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:03 pm

Gwaihir

Second Unit Director

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:14 amPosts: 283

Re: The Chris Lane Murder, and a conflict

I will add that some people will take any opportunity to bash Obama, regardless of whether he deserves it or not. It's really mind-boggling. Just as an example I keep hearing people around here blaming their higher co-pays on Obamacare, even though it hasn't even been implemented yet! I'm not sure what people wanted Obama to do here, call the murderers the newest "Axis of Evil?" (And KW, I don't have the slightest idea what your old acquaintance means by accusing Obama of "facilitating these types of tragedies." Huh? How?)

Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:13 pm

CasualDad

Cinematographer

Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:19 pmPosts: 623

Re: The Chris Lane Murder, and a conflict

Ken wrote:

It sounds like you're implying that the policies of self-styled liberal are causing crime in urban areas.

I am. I am not saying that it is an intentional result. However, I do believe it is an unintended consequence directly related to government policies in urban areas, particularly where it applies to education and crime prevention. While overall murder rates are down significantly across the country over what they were 30 years ago, in most urban areas they are still about the same.

Vexer, I hope you're right that the President did the right thing by getting involved. Perhaps I just don't get the whole picture, but his involvement did nothing to change the facts of the case or the overall opinion of the American people toward the outcome, and seems to have done nothing but fuel more animosity.

Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:18 pm

Vexer

Auteur

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pmPosts: 3606Location: Zion, IL

Re: The Chris Lane Murder, and a conflict

CasualDad wrote:

Ken wrote:

It sounds like you're implying that the policies of self-styled liberal are causing crime in urban areas.

I am. I am not saying that it is an intentional result. However, I do believe it is an unintended consequence directly related to government policies in urban areas, particularly where it applies to education and crime prevention. While overall murder rates are down significantly across the country over what they were 30 years ago, in most urban areas they are still about the same.

Vexer, I hope you're right that the President did the right thing by getting involved. Perhaps I just don't get the whole picture, but his involvement did nothing to change the facts of the case or the overall opinion of the American people toward the outcome, and seems to have done nothing but fuel more animosity.

I don't think he added any more animosity to this case then it already had, the only people who really got pissed off by it were complete whack-jobs like Ted Nugent and Rush Limbaugh, who are pretty much impossible to take seriously anyways.

Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:43 pm

KWRoss

Director

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:37 amPosts: 1180Location: Laurel, MD

Re: The Chris Lane Murder, and a conflict

Gwaihir wrote:

I will add that some people will take any opportunity to bash Obama, regardless of whether he deserves it or not. It's really mind-boggling. Just as an example I keep hearing people around here blaming their higher co-pays on Obamacare, even though it hasn't even been implemented yet! I'm not sure what people wanted Obama to do here, call the murderers the newest "Axis of Evil?" (And KW, I don't have the slightest idea what your old acquaintance means by accusing Obama of "facilitating these types of tragedies." Huh? How?)

This old acquaintance of mine believes that Obama and the liberal media are turning the other cheek when black people do things wrong, and pouncing whenever a white person does something wrong. The Facebook rant and the resulting comments he made show how truly warped and disturbed this individual is. When someone made an interesting point of how we have kids with too much time on their hands (the attackers claim they were "just bored"), along with a piss-poor education system in certain states, he turned it around like so:

"When a black kid gets shot for trying to kill someone when he was high as a giraffe's ass, you scream "racism" all over the place. Yet when a white kid gets shot in the back by three punks who did this ONLY because of his skin color, you wanna turn it over to the educational system? [The killing] was ENTIRELY racially motivated. The media just isn't covering it, as usual, because the victim was white."

And he brings up Obama no matter how tenuous the link is. Remember the Penn State scandal and how students rioted over the firing of head coach Joe Paterno? That prompted this lovely little rant.

"I doubt any of these 19yr old students would be rioting and flipping news vans over Paterno's firing if their buttholes looked like rubberbands blowing in the wind courtesy of [Jerry Sandusky]. If seeing my generation's (combined with that of 95% of the country's welfare recipients) votes swing the last presidential election in favor of an inexperienced, terrorist-associating, racism-enabling, spend-happy, community organizing Muslim wasn't enough to let America know that there needs to be more qualifications for voting that simply breathing for 18 years then this should erase any doubt."

This man is 29 years old, same age as me, and has two kids. If you can raise children in a safe environment free of violence, that's great. But the fact that a mentality like this is being taught and ingrained within impressionable young minds is what truly scares me.

Black on black crime undermines the liberal maxim that blacks are an enfeebled victim group.

Personally, i'd take the radical step of treating blacks exactly like whites and hold black communities to the same standards as white ones. But i'm aware that this view makes me an un-pc, KKK, Nazi, devil worshipping baby eater

_________________... because I'm a wild animal

Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:14 am

Vexer

Auteur

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pmPosts: 3606Location: Zion, IL

Re: The Chris Lane Murder, and a conflict

NotHughGrant wrote:

Black on black crime undermines the liberal maxim that blacks are an enfeebled victim group.

Personally, i'd take the radical step of treating blacks exactly like whites and hold black communities to the same standards as white ones. But i'm aware that this view makes me an un-pc, KKK, Nazi, devil worshipping baby eater

Enfeebled victim? WTF are you talking about

No one said black communities shouldn't be held to the same standard, the problem is that actually meeting said standard is an uphill struggle that's far easier said then done.

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