I have faith he will draft fine. We will have a lot of money to work with. Is that necessarily a good thing with Hammond? hes shown with cap room its not but I have faith that he learned from his mistakes last time

How do you have faith Hammond will do anything fine?*Drafted Joe Alexander over Brooke Lopez*Traded back from having the chance to draft Klay Thompson only to draft Tobias who he gave up on prematurely*You could have picked a name out of a hat in the Jennings draft and either taken him or someone better (lawson or holiday) *Henson looks good now but the Jury is still out (plus Hammond has a penchant for giving up on his draft picks prematurely)

Its a myth that Hammond is good in the Draft. He won big on Sanders and had a solid 2nd round selection in Moute. Thats not very good for a guy who has been here for over 4 years.

Nebula1 wrote:Look, the Bucks are going for the Playoffs.. might as well sit back and support it since ain't nothing changing until the summer. Here's hoping they get the 7 or better and steal a first round series. I definitely think Redick helps them pull that off.

Hate giving up Harris, but let's roll.

This response could have literally been copied and pasted from last year's Monta trade thread. People complained about that trade, others said "Hey well at least we're going to the playoffs, we may as well support the team." A year later we're in the same situation and we're supposed to suck it up and cheer for carbon copy of last year? I admire your optimism Nebs, but I just can't get with that line of thinking.

Let's take a moment to appreciate that there is a difference between getting Monta vs. getting Redick, and there is a difference between giving Tobias and giving Bogut. To say these trades are anything close to a carbon copy is doing a disservice to both Redick and Bogut.

Tobias might become a very good player, and I hope he does, and I'm sad it won't be here. But let's not lump in Monta for Bogut with Redick for Harris. Jesus.

I think what it boils down to is that because of Tobias' age it's easier to imagine him becoming Bernard King than it is to imagine Redick becoming SG version of Steve Nash. What we need to remember is that neither of those things is ever going to happen. They are only to be imagined.

Meanwhile we could draft Otto Porter, Poythress or Saric and any one of those guys could very well be better than Tobias.

We can debate Harris and that's fine, but to me, how he's viewed shouldn't matter a ton. He's a young unknown that has shown something. He shouldn't be moved to land a UFA who can be signed in the offseason anyway, and who doesn't move us to another tier of team in the interim. The fact that people think a bench SG is going to largely change our fortunes these last 29 games is crazy to me.

LUKE23 wrote:We can debate Harris and that's fine, but to me, how he's viewed shouldn't matter a ton. He's a young unknown that has shown something. He shouldn't be moved to land a UFA who can be signed in the offseason anyway, and who doesn't move us to another tier of team in the interim. The fact that people think a bench SG is going to largely change our fortunes these last 29 games is crazy to me.

I agree with your main point that young talent shouldn't be given up for older UFA's, but I think how Harris is viewed matters a ton. We don't know exactly what kind of value he had, at best probably that of a mid-late 1st, but as every year passes, unless he does improve, he just becomes less young and the "prospect" label starts to slip until eventually he is a 24-25 year old bad player.

I really believe in Tobias, so I don't see that being the case, but it definitely could end up being so. Also Redick is more than just "bench SG", he's easily top 10. That's like the argument in the off-season when some people didn't want to trade the farm for a "bench SG" in Harden. Redick is no Harden not even close, but whether he has been starting or coming off the bench doesn't matter when you're ranking positions. "Bench SG" makes it sound like we just traded for Fransisco Garcia or Daequan Cook.

Nebula1 wrote:Look, the Bucks are going for the Playoffs.. might as well sit back and support it since ain't nothing changing until the summer. Here's hoping they get the 7 or better and steal a first round series. I definitely think Redick helps them pull that off.

Hate giving up Harris, but let's roll.

This response could have literally been copied and pasted from last year's Monta trade thread. People complained about that trade, others said "Hey well at least we're going to the playoffs, we may as well support the team." A year later we're in the same situation and we're supposed to suck it up and cheer for carbon copy of last year? I admire your optimism Nebs, but I just can't get with that line of thinking.

Let's take a moment to appreciate that there is a difference between getting Monta vs. getting Redick, and there is a difference between giving Tobias and giving Bogut. To say these trades are anything close to a carbon copy is doing a disservice to both Redick and Bogut.

Tobias might become a very good player, and I hope he does, and I'm sad it won't be here. But let's not lump in Monta for Bogut with Redick for Harris. Jesus.

The only similarity I was pointing out is that people said "Well at least this guarantees the playoffs and may even be enough to get a first round win." The statement wasn't meant to compare the players who were dealt or received in either trade, just the expectations of some people after the trades.

Nebula1 wrote:Redick is good and I suspect people will be backing him soon enough. I want to see the Bucks make some noise.

We all already do back Redick. Other than the occasional poster saying he's redundant to MDJ I'd say 90% of the board would like to see Redick playing for the Bucks. I back him so much I would have loved for the Bucks to go out and sign him in the offseason. But to give up assets for him for a three month rental with no guarantee of retaining him in the future in an effort to accomplish at best a first round drubbing by the Heat is idiotic (Runonsentence).

LUKE23 wrote:To me the debate is Udrih vs. Redick, and if that upgrade for 29 games is worth Harris. I'd argue hell no it is not.

I would agree with you there. Would've rather seen Monta go out than Udrih. I really can't believe Monta is still on this team after the attitude he had the last game before the deadline. He was playing like a guy who had already been traded. I haven't been as critical as most when it comes to Hammond but this is a definite mismanagement of assets at the deadline once again.

But that brings up the argument of, was Hammond interested in moving Monta, did Kohl tell him to ride out guys like Monta for the "playoff push?". If we knew these kinds of things it would make it much easier for me to really judge the job Hammond is doing.

I find it a bit naive to think that any free agent is going to Milwaukee without bird rights and overspending. That is not an nba reality right now. Sorry, but its the cold hard truth.

We have a pile of cap space in the works and the system is working against us as you pretty much have to use it or it gets squeezed but player raises.

Redick is precisely what this team needs. Über efficient, hard working, a positive leader and a genuine floor spacing threat. Many, many people on this board advocated getting him. If not for the hawks fiasco we may have had a shot at a sanders redick moute smith Jennings lineup next year, which I would have enjoyed. Now, we will see.

Either way the overreaction of negativity toward this trade seems a bit excessive, don't you think?

I look at it as two separate issues. I look at not trading Ellis as insane. I don't understand why we wouldn't to be honest. I also look at the Redick trade as a 2-4 year commitment, and not just a 29 game rental. I believe we desperately need an efficient shooter like Redick, that can also help direct/focus Jennings. IMHO, this is a last ditch effort for Jennings to be the player everyone wants him to be. I really hope Redick can help in that regard. Like I said earlier, my biggest concern for this year is the backup 1. Now it would appear that Redick/Ellis are slated for that role. I'm not sure how that will work out. Lastly, if the Bucks call on Tobes is right or wrong still has to be seen, but at the very least, they actually made a call! I'd rather have them make a wrong call on a player than not make one at all. Personally, they have been much more patient with Jennings than I would have.

"Too many people ask for help, and sometimes you have to help yourself." - Jerry Sloan (CBQ is missed)

Nebula1 wrote:Redick is good and I suspect people will be backing him soon enough. I want to see the Bucks make some noise.

We all already do back Redick. Other than the occasional poster saying he's redundant to MDJ I'd say 90% of the board would like to see Redick playing for the Bucks. I back him so much I would have loved for the Bucks to go out and sign him in the offseason. But to give up assets for him for a three month rental with no guarantee of retaining him in the future in an effort to accomplish at best a first round drubbing by the Heat is idiotic (Runonsentence).

Bucks got Gustavo Ayon and ISH SMITH in the deal so the Bucks did get some new assets.

Milwaukee is probably now a front runner to retain Redick next season if they so desire rather than bidding openly against a number of other franchises. IMO, highly unlikely Milwaukee had a real shot at him on the open market.

Milwaukee can do better than getting beat down by Miami in the first round. They may be able to steal a round in the weak East and that would be fun as hell.

Redick is instantly one of the best players on the team and was (by far) the best player in the deal.

Losing Harris sucked, but it's quite possible the Bucks got the best of this deal. And if Harris doesn't turn into a player, they basically stole Redick so give Hammond some credit.