Well I started doing leg presses instead of smith squat, as you said leg presses were better, now it seems I might be able to front squat decent weights from the incline bench press stand (not back squat but front squat), should I do the front squat first then the leg press, or the other way around?, im 14 and half years old btw, training for about 8-10 months, I tryed doing deadlifts with an empty olympic bar, was nice, but coaches are annoying.. so I will probably start doing deadlifts regulary when I change a gym, and start doing 5X5 or Starting Strength.

Any suggestions whats so ever?

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TimD [ Mon May 25, 2009 2:31 pm ]

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Do the front squat and perfect your form. No real need for leg presses if your front squatting, or for a mixup, you could front squat twice a week and leg press 1X week on separate sessions.
Tim

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idunno11 [ Mon May 25, 2009 3:17 pm ]

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But im on AB, cant do only 1 leg exercise, and I hate leg extensions and curls, leg extensions are somehow applausible, but leg curls are a pain, and the coaches dont allow me to do deadlifts.. so isn't front squatting for 3 sets, then 3 sets of leg presses should be a nice leg routine for AB 4 times a week?

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stuward [ Mon May 25, 2009 3:47 pm ]

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Alternating will work.

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nygmen [ Mon May 25, 2009 4:36 pm ]

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idunno11 wrote:

and the coaches dont allow me to do deadlifts..?

What is the thought process behind that?

(Sorry if this has been covered before.)

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idunno11 [ Tue May 26, 2009 12:44 am ]

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Ahh.. leave the thought process behind it, they just dont let me deadlift.
But then again, in AB split program, 4 days a week, I should only do front squats for my legs?, seems weird, I mean adding leg presses to it, sounds normal.

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Ironman [ Tue May 26, 2009 3:22 am ]

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That's really a shame. The standard deadlift is what you pair up with the front squat. Oh well I guess you'll have to do leg curls. The dumber people are the more insufferably stubborn they are. All the evidence in the world probably won't change their minds. You could try to sneak it in while they aren't looking maybe. You have to do something for hamstrings.

Maybe you could tell them your doctor said that doing the squats without any deadlifting is starting cause your patellas to be pulled to the side due to the imbalance between the quads and hamstrings and you need a deadlifting variation that can work the hamstring from the hip to correct this.

Because working quads without working hams will eventually do that. I knew a guy that didn't workout, but had that problem on his right knee from starting his motorcycle. The cure was of course rehab type exercises for the hamstrings.

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Jungledoc [ Tue May 26, 2009 12:35 pm ]

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Do deadlifts.

There! Now you can tell the coach that a doctor told you to do deadlifts.

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idunno11 [ Tue May 26, 2009 12:43 pm ]

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Thanks doc.

Lets see if I know how to perform the deadlifts:

One arm in underhand hold, one arm in overhand hold, about shoulderwidth hold gripping the bar, feet about shoulder width, toes pointing out 30 degrees out, about so, then back straight etc, movement starts from my glutes, (ass XD), then like doing half a squat, until I can pick the bar from the floor, half squat up, then over straighten my back, then repeat, every time the weight on the floor.
Am I correct, cause as far as I know this deadlift is the basic one, and doesnt work the hamstring's much.

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stuward [ Tue May 26, 2009 12:52 pm ]

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idunno11 wrote:

Thanks doc.

Lets see if I know how to perform the deadlifts:

One arm in underhand hold, one arm in overhand hold, about shoulderwidth hold gripping the bar, feet about shoulder width, toes pointing out 30 degrees out, about so, then back straight etc, movement starts from my glutes, (ass XD), then like doing half a squat, until I can pick the bar from the floor, half squat up, then over straighten my back, then repeat, every time the weight on the floor.Am I correct, cause as far as I know this deadlift is the basic one, and doesnt work the hamstring's much.

That's the right version. You may want to review some of the online resources concerning deadlifts.

Yes but since my knees are not in a fixed position and the original deadlift as I described involves half squatting and the knees moving dynamically, which pretty much "kills" the hamstring involvement, what do you say about it?

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stuward [ Tue May 26, 2009 1:00 pm ]

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It doesn't "kill" hamstring involvement, it just isn't isolated. The fact that it uses quads and glutes as well, doesn't mean that the hamstrings are not involved.

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idunno11 [ Tue May 26, 2009 1:03 pm ]

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Okay, so do the basic, half squat, half back extension, and picking weight "dead" from the floor, if I am correct, I have just gave a description of the Deadlift.

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TimD [ Tue May 26, 2009 1:35 pm ]

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Close enough. I'd advise going to crossfit.com and visiting their video section under exercises and Demos. They have good training video's by coach Rip explaining and doin DL's Youtube also has a lot of demos over there.
The combo of DL's (ip ham dominant) and front Squats (qua dominant) will take care of just about all your lower body needs. Then you could add in some auxilliary work if you or the coach deem it necessary.
Tim

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idunno11 [ Tue May 26, 2009 1:38 pm ]

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Yah, well I haven't thought of it, but it seems that the incline bench stand, I mean I cant squat going normally in it, but coming the other way around, that is instead of walking straight into the incline bench stand with my face toward the bar, I could just walk back, when my back is toward the bar, and pretty easily pick the bar, that ofcourse is by theory, in case it works I'l start Starting Strength or 5X5, etc.
If it doesnt work, I'l just do front squats, and deadlifts and it should do some real good to my lower body, and general body development, as you say and as it seems.