As a guy who did much of the staybolt cap work on #2101 for the American Freedom Train when it was first restored to start the train's operation in the 70s the way UP is doing it is so much more technical and far better. We had none of that kind of sophistication, just put the flat copper washers in the cap and cranked the new cap in place on the sleeve. It worked but luck was with us. Good work, UP.

_________________Ron GoldfederSt. Louis

Lincoln Penn

Post subject: Re: Union Pacific # 4014 What's The Latest News

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:54 pm

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pmPosts: 811

Ron Goldfeder wrote:

As a guy who did much of the staybolt cap work on #2101 for the American Freedom Train when it was first restored to start the train's operation in the 70s the way UP is doing it is so much more technical and far better. We had none of that kind of sophistication, just put the flat copper washers in the cap and cranked the new cap in place on the sleeve. It worked but luck was with us. Good work, UP.

I might agree with you, Ron, had 844 been sitting a scrapyard for umpteen years.

Everyone seems to have lost sight of the fact that this exact work was done on 844 10years ago. It would not need it again except that someone decided to drill holes in the caps recently.

Ron Goldfeder

Post subject: Re: Union Pacific # 4014 What's The Latest News

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:25 am

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pmPosts: 561Location: St. Louis, MO

I wasn't suggesting anything, just comparing methods. I worked on the 2101 in 1975 when it went from scrapyard to operating in about 30 days. And the washers I used weren't even flat as the first batch of caps from the foundry were too large to work on the caps after being threaded before delivery due to some misunderstanding. When the second batch arrived a few days later I was told just to put a double bend into the larger gaskets so they would fit in the caps and stick them in. So that was what was done. Not at all like today on the UP. And what is this about drilling the caps? Didn't know about that.

_________________Ron GoldfederSt. Louis

Lincoln Penn

Post subject: Re: Union Pacific # 4014 What's The Latest News

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:16 pm

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pmPosts: 811

Ron Goldfeder wrote:

I wasn't suggesting anything, just comparing methods. I worked on the 2101 in 1975 when it went from scrapyard to operating in about 30 days. And the washers I used weren't even flat as the first batch of caps from the foundry were too large to work on the caps after being threaded before delivery due to some misunderstanding. When the second batch arrived a few days later I was told just to put a double bend into the larger gaskets so they would fit in the caps and stick them in. So that was what was done. Not at all like today on the UP. And what is this about drilling the caps? Didn't know about that.

Grab it with a needle nose pliers, and then twist the pliers 180 degrees, then release and use the pliers to flatten the curled part. A little bit redneck engineering but a good soft copper should forgive you.

My best guess on the holes is that is to destroy the cap for future use. It's not unheard of to mangle a defective part so it can't be reused. More commonly you are supposed to mangle a defective PPE so it can't be re-used, for instance, an electrical insulating glove with a hole in it, you are to slice the fingers off of the glove to absolutely remove it from any reasonable service. Note that I am not judging these caps as defective myself, however.

I will say that is one sorry looking stack of caps. They are probably completely serviceable but they are very worn looking. Many of them are rusted enough to have lost their original shape, and obviously someone in the past has used a chisel to loosen and/or tighten them. You can't say the current crew did that because unlike the drill holes that are shiny and recent, the chisel marks are well rusted. Of course, it's possible he found a bucket of discarded caps and put those on top....

Ron Goldfeder

Post subject: Re: Union Pacific # 4014 What's The Latest News

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:27 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pmPosts: 561Location: St. Louis, MO

That's right, they were thin, soft copper gaskets or washers. Just bend one in about half, squeeze each side with pliers, then bend it back at a smaller diameter that would fit inside the cap and squeeze again.

_________________Ron GoldfederSt. Louis

dinwitty

Post subject: Re: Union Pacific # 4014 What's The Latest News

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:49 am

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pmPosts: 2226

I would think rendering it useless should you happen to pick it up again to remind you its the bad one and not try to install it.

Its going to be the full out restore for 4014, just all depends how much time available to do the work. 4 years of mostly weekends on 765 did it, but more continuous work will drop that way down.

Lincoln Penn

Post subject: Re: Union Pacific # 4014 What's The Latest News

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:38 am

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pmPosts: 811

Why not just toss ' em in the scrap bin and be done with it? Essentially, they are paying people union scale and benefits to drill holes in pieces that worked well until now this turning them into scrap.

Kelly Anderson

Post subject: Re: Union Pacific # 4014 What's The Latest News

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:50 am

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 amPosts: 1540Location: Strasburg, PA

We have drilled holes in caps before, but only when the cap in question was stuck so tight as to require heating to remove it. The hole is in case that there is water under the cap. We had one blow off once while heating when that water turned to steam. It blew out the torch, and ricocheted off an I-beam in the building, making the same sound a rifle bullet would. Won't do that again.

_________________"It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work."C. S. Forester

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