God is the one who set it up as it is. Jesus ordained no men. If women leave because they aren't getting their way then they have no idea why they are going to Mass to begin with. LaRae

You are welcome to your beliefs but that does not make the beliefs of others invalid and many people understand the bible needs to be viewed within the social and historical context of the time it was written in, and that quite a lot of human editing shaped the church and the bible.

There is no good reason to believe Jesus thought women were unfit to be priests.

You are welcome to your beliefs but that does not make the beliefs of others invalid and many people understand the bible needs to be viewed within the social and historical context of the time it was written in, and that quite a lot of human editing shaped the church and the bible.

There is no good reason to believe Jesus thought women were unfit to be priests.

I don't recall saying other people's beliefs are invalid. I am stating my beliefs and those of my Faith.

It has nothing to do with being unfit. Being able to do X does not make you equal. We are all equal in human dignity. Being able to do what a man does, does not prove or change your status.

When it comes to the issue of ordination, the Church does not have the authority to ordain women. Christ who was quite radical in His time on earth had a lot of dealings with women, yet raised none of them to a priestly status.

I am all for viewing the Bible in it's proper context...a changing society does not make Biblical/Church teachings invalid or outdated.

Christ did not ordain priests, as far as I know, of either sex. He said to have communion in memory of His sacrifice, but I can't recall Him saying who was to preside over communion. The church members met in homes at first, and there were several homes where both husband and wife were mentioned as hosts. Paul the Apostle mentioned these homes, one of them being where a woman named Priscilla lived. I can't remember her husband's name or the names of the other hosts of Paul the Apostle on his journeys.
The original disciples, the 12 closest, were called Apostles, not priests, as far as I know. I say "as far as I know" because I don't know everything about it.

This does not mean that I consider the ordination of women to be something easily undertaken. I know a VERY fine female priest in the Episcopal Church, one who would satisfy your need for tradition on other issues, Brazillian. But she is often busy with her two young children, and so she is not available for full time work. She donates her time as an assistant priest, and is probably the most effective priest I have ever met.
But she is also a wife and mother, and she realizes she can't be full time until the children grow up, if ever, for she may not have an opportunity to serve in another community, since her husband has a job here. She has given the best sermons I have heard in a church. To deny her the right to contribute in this way would be a loss to the church. An enormous loss.

The concept of 'equality' is a big lie, invented by those bloody revolutionaries during the French Revolution. We are all different, there's no equality - except that we are all children of God Our Lord, but that's all. Society needs hierachy and rules. If a woman can be a Rabbi or a shepherdess, that's great, but the Roman Catholic Church will not ordain any woman. If we change things too much, we'll end up destructing the our society, and some people (not here) are trying to do that.

You make a good point here.

Not all religions don't allow women to enter into the hierarchy. I agree that hierarchies have a purpose and shouldn't be destroyed - at least not without reason. I disagree that allowing women to enter into a religious hierarchy is a bad thing - it hasn't destroyed Judaism (I don't think anything well ever destroy Judaism), or the many Christian faiths that allow for it.

Within Catholicism, or really any religion, changing too fast can destabilize things but so can refusing to change. Perhaps the RC church wouldn't benefit from having a female pope right now, but it would benefit from altering it's stance towards women. Having equal rights towards women isn't the same as abolishing the hierarchy, it's simply evolving to adapt to the modern era - something that is desperately needed within the Catholic Church.

I was born a Catholic and raised a devout Catholic and I left the church when I realized the church only "honors" women as far as we're able to produce children. No recognition of our academic or intellectual contributions and this archaic idea that spiritual leaders must be men, coupled with the idea that women don't even have the right to use birth control- which more than any other invention has given women the ability to be financially and professionally on par with men.

I still find the church's stance deeply hurtful and wrong. I love Catholic social justice theories and catholic spirituality but the church's official position on women makes me feel devalued and unwelcome and I don't know that I'll ever be able to forgive that.

There are several women who have been declared doctors of the Church, this is a very high honor to women...so to say women are only honored because of childbirth (only childbirth...seriously what honor could be higher than to give life) is a gross error.

Women have held various positions of power for centuries in the Church. Abbesses controlled virtual kingdoms in some cases.

As far as birth control goes yes women do have the right to use birth control. You can control who you sleep with and when you sleep with them and if you need to prevent and/or space births there are natural methods to use. They are very effective when used properly.

Oh and about the ordination of priests. When Christ gave the power to Bind & Loose it was given to the men. There were no women given this power.

Since this thread quickly spiraled from praise for the pope downwards to the reactionary observation that after 224 years the French revolution is still ruining our society, I think it is time to call it a day and end this discussion. I think that both sides have made their points of view clear. This is a royalty forum after all, some OT is allowed but religious debates tend to get heated rather quickly. For those interested to discuss the matter further, I suggest the following forums:

Meanwhile at The Vatican,the original statue of Our Lady of Fatima arrived amidst a ceremony ahead of the celebrations and Holy Mass on St.Peter Square on occasion of the Marian Day headed by the man & in the place this thread is all & only about:Pope Francis & The Vatican.

And on another note,Pope Francis donated a Harley Davidson he got on the 110th anniversary of the manufacter,the Harley will be auctioned of and the proceeds will go to the restructering of the Caritas Don Luigi Di Liegro Hostel in Rome.

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“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy’. They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
― John Lennon