Delta Sends A New Mom A Ridiculous Tweet And The Internet Goes Nuts

The Internet exploded this weekend after Delta answered a mother’s tweet inquiring about breastfeeding policy with an answer she didn’t like.. Lindsay Jaynes, the mom of a 10-week-old son tweeted the following to @DeltaAssist:

“What’s your breastfeeding policy? I’ll be flying with my 10 wk old son and he won’t nurse with a cover or take a bottle. Thanks.”

According to an interview Jayne did with 11Alive’s Julie Wolfe, she was trying to plan ahead for a flight in the coming month. A few hours later Delta answered her tweet with:

“Lindsay unfortunately you are not able to breast feed if you don’t have a cover up. I’m sorry. *SD”

This is the part that baffles me. Jayne told the news station that she was already well-aware of Delta’s past issues with mothers nursing without a cover (issues I obviously fin problematic as a mom who breastfed three kids):

“I was shocked. I was expecting a link to their policy I could print out just in case there were any issues. I heard about the woman who got kicked off a Delta flight for breastfeeding without a cover.”

She was referring to a 2006 incident in which Emily Gillette was asked to leave a flight for nursing and refusing to cover up (even though according to witnesses no one could actually see any of her breast). In that particular case, Gillette eventually reached an undisclosed settlement.

Jayne exchanged a few more tweets with Delta, and yes, the whoever the Delta rep is who was manning their twitter account should definitely get some sensitivity training, but I think the whole thing was an exercise in futility on Jayne’s part. She obviously knew the company’s history on the subject as well as her own legal rights? Why even bother to tweet at them, then? I would have planned to nurse the way I needed to nurse and perhaps brought some literature about the law to show a wayward flight attendant if there were any issues with it.

By the end of their exchange the Twitter-sphere (isn’t that an annoying term?) had picked up on it an more than 1,200 people had tweeted at Jayne’s handle, @ClassicHippie. In true big business fashion, Delta eventually recanted their original stance. Another rep tweeted this at Jayne:

“Delta welcomes breastfeeding mothers and babies on our flights. We apologize for the misinformation earlier. *TH”

Jayne says that while she did receive an apologetic phone call from Delta, she doesn’t feel like they are taking her seriously.

I think she tweeted them in order to calm (edited to correct “qualm”, which I wrote like a dumb ass) her fears of being kicked off a flight by some airline employee who wasn’t aware of the policy.

brebay

calm?

Ennis Demeter

It’s a mixture of “calm” and “quell”.

IvandaBAhlon

No, it isn’t. it’s its own word, and has nothing to do with either of these; look it up.

Ennis Demeter

Are you serious?

KarenMS

I got the joke

Lexielu

I think you got lost somewhere between calm and quell. Qualm is something different; and it’s a noun.

brebay

Why would you even ask this? It’s legal, period. They’re an airline, not SCOTUS. Their “policy” is irrelevant.

Angela

Just because breastfeeding’s legal doesn’t mean that women don’t get kicked out of places all the time. It sounds like she wanted to print out an official statement just in case anyone gave her any flak.

brebay

But they can’t, that’s why the last woman got a cash settlement. Airlines are not like other private businesses; they’re regulated by the FAA under the commerce clause of the US Constitution and are required to follow federal regs. A woman may breastfeed on a plane without a cover, that’s why they keep settling out of court.

Angela

I get what you’re saying but until companies start properly educating their employees (and obviously Delta doesn’t) then there’s still a possibility that breastfeeding mothers will be kicked off flights. Sure it’s illegal and later she’ll get a court settlement out of it but I can’t blame this mom for wanting to avoid all that hassle by bringing official proof that she is within her rights to nurse if she is harassed by ignorant employees.

Jamesmommy

well, obviously they CAN since someone DID. sure, it’s illegal and perhaps you’ll get a settlement (if you take action). and, personally (while the cash might be nice) i would much prefer not to get booted off a flight with a baby. hello stress city.

brebay

Not me, I’d take a bumped flight for the amount she probably got! And don’s be so obtuse, obviously it’s physically possible, clearly the can’t LEGALLY was inferred.

Angela

So basically if she feeds her kid she risks being kicked off the plane. If she doesn’t feed him he’ll likely scream his head off and they still get booted off. What exactly is she supposed to do? As someone who also had babies that refused cover-ups and one that refused bottles I can totally sympathize.

EX

Oh, didn’t you know? If you choose to breed you forfeit the right to travel by air. *end sarcasm*

Angela

But of course as long as you’re not traveling with young children you’re welcome to engage in any kind of obnoxiousness without repercussion. How often do we see people kicked off planes for falling asleep on your neighbor, snoring, getting drunk, reclining their seat into your knees, dry humping on the seat next to you (yes that happened to me), etc?

Annonymous

I know I’m gonna get flamed for this but I’m so sick of moms feeling like the whole world needs to revolve around their little snowflake. A lot of people would feel extremely uncomfortable sitting next to a breastfeeding woman, especially considering how jam-packed airplane seats are. And it’s not like the offended passenger has the option to walk away and ignore it. Women manage to use nursing covers all the time. If your baby doesn’t cooperate then you train them to use it at home. If you’re consistent then eventually the baby will catch on. Same goes for bottles. Does anyone really believe that if for some reason she had to stop breastfeeding that her baby would actually starve? No, he’d learn to take a bottle. The truth isn’t that her son won’t take bottles or covers. It’s that she doesn’t want to take the time to teach him. If she can’t show some basic consideration for her fellow passengers then maybe she should make alternate travel plans.

helloshannon

the baby is 10 weeks old for f-cks sake. i would feel more uncomfortable next to a SCREAMING baby than a nursing one. this post is a huge part of the problem.

Annonymous

I’m NOT saying that the baby shouldn’t get fed. Generally all it takes is a couple days of consistent effort for a baby to adjust to covers or bottle feedings. Sure it’s less convenient than expecting everyone else to just accommodate you but parenting isn’t always about your own convenience.

Amanda

I can see you’ve never had to bottle ‘train’ a baby. You’re very very very misinformed. My daughter wouldn’t take a bottle until she was several months old, regardless of what we tried or how often.

Also my son, who was active and liked to flail from birth, not only didn’t want a nursing cover on, but would actively throw his arms out often while eating, so there was no way of feeding him with one on.

Life isn’t about your convenience either, and I would say a baby’s right and need to eat is more important than your childish discomfort over the intended use of breasts.

Emily A.

I had one baby who was militantly anti-bottle. Not a huge fan of the cover, either. But you know what? that was MY problem. I did not expect anyone else to take a moment’s thought about how this would work for me. I did not expect to make anyone else uncomfortable for a moment, even though breast feeding is something natural which should not need to be hidden away. I was dealing with facts, not “should bes”.

Amanda

It’s fine that you see it differently than me, but I really don’t see it as my problem if someone’s world view is so skewed that my feeding my hungry child makes them ‘uncomfortable for a moment’.

I also deal in facts – fact: breasts are intended for feeding babies. Fact: it is legal to breastfeed your baby in most places, and if it’s legal I’m free to do it.

‘Should be’ = everyone ‘should be’ comfortable. It’s a plane ride. No one’s going to be comfortable, get over it.

Emil

There are a million reasons why someone might feel uncomfortable on the plane. Should I avoid eating meat because the person next to me is a vegetarian? Should I skip the glass of wine because I’m sitting next to someone who is against alcohol?

Korine

Functioning adults are allowed to be made uncomfortable for a moment. Lots of things make me uncomfortable but I just go on my way and continue living my life as a mature adult. I imagine this would be a good reaction for anyone uncomfortable with the sight of part of a breast.

Courtney Lynn

This. It took my daughter a while to learn to take a bottle. She still doesn’t like pacifiers, either.

helloshannon

i agree with Amanda, you speak of something you know nothing about obviously. My son took a bottle, sure- from SOMEONE ELSE. never ever ever would he take one from me. And that alone wouldn’t even solve this problem because even if this mom could give the baby a bottle, she would STILL need to pump. Where is she going to do that while STILL taking care of the baby? in the bathroom? hahahahahahaha- no. she paid for her ticket as did everyone else and everyone else can deal because they bought a ticket on a plane, not an afternoon at a spa where their comfort is paramount.

Angela

No, parents’ convenience doesn’t automatically trump everyone else but parents and children don’t automatically come last either. The question is: Is it more reasonable to expect parents to turn their lives upside down for several days for this training you speak of (assuming it works like you claim which was NOT my experience) or to expect bystanders to tolerate momentary awkwardness? This isn’t a case of entitled parents expecting everyone to bend over backward to accommodate them. It a case of expecting mothers to bend over backward to accommodate entitled passengers.

Emil

How is she asking anyone to accommodate for her? Breastfeeding is often the best way to keep a child quiet on the plane.

Spiderpigmom

“Generally all it takes is a couple days of consistent effort for a baby to adjust to covers or bottle feedings”: chortling uncontrollably. I tried really hard to get my son to accept bottles until he was 6 months old, and he wouldn’t have any of it. Meanwhile, I couldn’t be away from him for more than a few hours or he would have gone hungry. It was so unpractical that I would have fallen on my knees and cried for joy if he had accepted a bottle of anything from anyone, since I was originally extremely uncomfortable nursing in public. As for the cover, it required both my hands to hold it on because he was getting upset and pulling at it as hard as he could, so I eventually thought “what the heck” and just ditched it since it actually attracted more attention than just nursing without a cover.

iamtheshoshie

I really hate when people suggest bottle feeding as an alternative to nursing. It takes me 2-3 pumping sessions to get 1 bottle.

Mikster

I’m surprised any knowledgeable parent would take a 10 week infant on a germ-infested plane.

helloshannon

well that is a different issue all together. i never would.

MellyG

Thank you. And especially on Delta. But to each their own I guess, we don’t know why they were flying. I’ve told all of my family that when i have kids, THEY will be coming to me, at least for the first year. But everyone is different.

Angela

Not every parent has a choice. I know a few military families who had to relocate overseas with newborns. Plus when my own son was 6 weeks old I had to travel for a funeral and as I exclusively breastfed, going without him was not an option. I consulted my pediatrician who gave us the go ahead and told me that while older babies and toddlers are liable to pick up germs in airports that newborns rarely do. They do not crawl around or touch anything so as long you are careful about washing your own hands it’s not all that risky.

Spiderpigmom

I moved to another continent when my kid was 5 weeks old. Thankfully I didn’t need your approval, the green light from my pediatrician was enough for me thankyouverymuch.
Oh, and I breastfed the whole flight, too.

Mikster

I wonder how you’d have felt if I were sitting next to you with my chronic cough though?

Spiderpigmom

Well, it’s not as if I’d had a choice (neither to be on an intercontinental flight with a newborn nor to be seated next to a person acting in a kind-of-assholish way) but if my son survived the repeated visits from all his sniffling toddler/preschooler cousins for all of his first month of life, he’d probably have survived a fake-coughing plane neighbour for a few hours. Also, at 5 weeks old, babies are still benefiting from the passive immunity passed from their mother, and I’m vaccinated against everything including sanctimony. Plus, if my judgy neighbour had insisted fake-coughing, I’d have whipped my out my Magical Gigantic Boob — it’s to this kind of people what garlic is to vampires.

Spiderpigmom

.. some “accidental” milk squirting might have been a nice comeback too, if the fake coughing persisted…

Mikster

I doubt a breast-feeding mother would like sitting next to me either. I have sinus issues and cough pretty hard intermittently. Not contagious, but I need to clear the crap before it drips in my lungs. C’est la vie.

brebay

I’m sure they assume you have TB or something. I probably would too, to be honest I’ll take a boob over a cougher!

Mikster

Right, so maybe that’ll get all the mommies with kids to move away from me

Abbe

It’s not a ‘little snowflake’, it’s a baby that needs to eat, and there’s no reason why the mom should have to rearrange her schedule because someone cannot avert their gaze while baby latches on. I regularly am forced to sit by woman who have 95% of their boobage hanging out or see their ass cracks everytime they bend over, which should be considered more offensive than I mom and baby doing what they are designed to do. Why should I have to accomodate to that shit then? Train a newborn…seriously? SOME babies can get used to a cover, but not all.

EX

Nobody is being put out by this woman’s request to nurse her child. Nursing without a cover doesn’t mean she’s going to be shoving her boob in fellow passengers’ faces. It is entirely possible to be discrete without a cover. And if people are still uncomfortable if she is discretely nursing next to/near them, then I am sorry but that is their problem, not hers. I flew with my daughter on a trip to Europe (4 flights total) when she was 8 months old and I had her nursing pretty much the entire time. Guess what? I didn’t use a cover because, seriously they are a pain in the ass (not bad if you’re using one for a few minutes while out to eat or whatever but for 8+ hours of off and on nursing? No thank you.). I tried to be discrete but if someone caught a nip slip, I frankly did not care. My daughter didn’t make a peep the whole flight. I would think our fellow passengers appreciated that.

Kelly

I appreciate it. A breastfeeding baby is a quiet baby. Much better than sitting next to a shrieking baby. Thank you.

Andrea

I upvoted and I do agree with you for the most part; but some babies will have none of the modesty. My kid REFUSED to stay under the blanket. He would push it with his little fists and he would flail his head and do everything he could to call attention to the fact that he was covered.

It was really one of the reasons I ended BF early: I was not at all comfortable BF as it was, let alone in the open. I was starting to feel really isolated because I felt like I had to go somewhere “private” (read: away from everyone else totally alone) to BF and I frankly, I was sick of it. I never mastered the art of BF and having no one notice like some women do. And If *I* wasn’t comfortable, then I really cannot expect other people to be either. It just isn’t fair. The “don’t look” thing pisses me off. Sometimes (and being cramped in a plane is one of those times) where you just can’t get away and not look.

Angela

Even on an airplane it’s possible not to stare at someone else’s boobs. Sure, I can see where it could be awkward for some and it is unfortunate that a plane doesn’t offer them the freedom to walk away and totally ignore the feeding. However, as you yourself have acknowledged it’s not always possible to use a cover and when a 10 week old baby’s hungry there’s no real option but to feed him. I don’t necessarily fault anyone for feeling awkward but I do fault them for not acknowledging that a baby’s need to eat trumps their personal discomfort.

brebay

You could bring a couple sleep masks and offer them to anyone who couldn’t not stare at your breast.

Angela

Or better yet, a blanket to cover their head

Guest

But apparently it is impossible to have a blanket on your head and not flail around wildly so I’d watch out.

Angela

Very possible if the person in question is an infant but then infants typically aren’t the ones offended by breastfeeding.

Dr. Apothecary

Have you ever used a nursing cover? They’re a pain in the ass. I have been using one, and I am certain that things do not always get covered, especially as I’m trying to shift everything around. My kid’s only 5 weeks and already moves his arms like crazy, and it’s only going to get worse as he gets older, making it more likely that the cover will not always work. It also takes awhile to set up, meaning he’s unhappy, i.e. screaming, longer.

I’m lucky my kid will take a bottle, and so I’m using that option when I can. But if I were out of a bottle, my kid was starving, the nursing cover was only making him angrier, and I was on a plane, you better believe I’d nurse him without it. The person next to me might not like it, but the rest of the plane would appreciate it.

Babies aren’t rational. My kid screams his head off because he’s wet and then is also unhappy when you change him. You can’t make babies do something they don’t want to, including taking a bottle or nursing with a cover. This is a well-known issue.

Why don’t you only travel when you can show some basic compassion for other people?

it’s like you read my mind

For reals. You know what else really gets my goose? Blind people with seeing eye dogs. I mean for fuck’s sake. Can’t they just use a stick, like a lot of other blind people manage to do? Maybe that isn’t what they are used to, but with some good, consistent practice, they’d catch on. I mean, what if their dog just died or something? Would they really just stay home forever? I am PETRIFIED of dogs and my boyfriend is seriously allergic. Why should I have to be so inconvenienced because they want to the world to revolve around them? *end sarcasm*

Emil

I know right?! Your eyes-your problem! Why should I be inconvenienced because you’re blind and you’re a special snowflake who thinks the world revolves around you. Dogs make me uncomfortable!!

SNOWSCAS81

This will probably be an unpopular opinion but I have a hard time believing that a baby will refuse to nurse without a cover. Also, another unpopular opinion I’m sure, I have a hard time taking anyone with the Twitter handle @Classic Hippie seriously. I keep picturing the woman wearing the flower wreath in her hair while breastfeeding her baby in front on the Enfamil booth. I don’t have an issue with breastfeeding. I just don’t like people who turn it into a crusade and do nurse ins and stuff like that. With people like that I have to wonder if it’s really about the baby at all or if they are just getting off on the attention.

FormerlyKnownAsWendy

I so wanted to say the thing about being unable to take her Twitter handle seriously. There’s not really any way to take it seriously..

Amanda

I agree about the usually unfortunate use of the word hippie, for sure, but myself and another mom above both had the same issues with a baby who wouldn’t take a coverup.

I tried literally everything people suggested for my son, to no avail. If I tried feeding him with even a receiving blanket on him he would punch his little fists out to the sides because he hated it. He’s two and a half now, nursing is a thing long since past, and he won’t even sleep with a blanket on, he just hates it.

Emil

I think that is pretty common. Happened with both of my girls. As soon as they had the motor skills to do it they pushed the nursing cover right off. Then again I don’t know too many adults who would want to eat under a blanket either.

Angela

So you find it a lot more believable that women who ordinarily would be mortified to publicly expose themselves just automatically can’t wait to flash everyone else? I tend to dress very conservatively and am not comfortable wearing low cut tops or even tank tops without wearing a sweater or jacket over it. I also don’t have the best self-image, especially immediately post-partum so naturally I strongly would have preferred to nurse with a cover.

But my baby would have none of it. Practically as soon as we got home from the hospital I tried to practice using blankets and covers so that I could feed him while out and about. He HATED it and would clamp down on my nipple and jerk his head from side to side which literally left me bleeding and bruised. For about 6 months I tried to avoid going out and to use covers whenever we did. But eventually I got tired of feeling like I was under house arrest and getting bloodied nipples so I decided to hell with it and simply went about our lives and ditched the cover.

MellyG

But not all women would “ordinarily be mortified of publicaly exposing themselves” or want to dress conservatively. We don’t know about this particular mom one way or the other. She could be like you, or maybe not. I think what Snowscas81 is trying to say that some women (not all) lose sight of the baby, and make it more about a crusade. I know women like this, and it gets really old really fast.

Angela

I know that not all women would feel this way. Some women choose to be strippers or like wearing revealing clothes. As far as I’m concerned I totally support the right of every woman to choose how she dresses. But sometimes it seems that people tend to assume that mothers publicly breast feed because they just can’t wait to bare their breasts which honestly isn’t the case for any of the mothers I know. I also think that a lot of the “crusaders” are that way because, like me, they got really tired of being made to feel that they should apologize for feeding their kid. If people would just mind their own business and leave nursing mothers alone then we wouldn’t need crusaders or nurse ins.

MellyG

But it goes both ways. I agree with you, and i DO think women should be left alone to breastfeed – i mean, it’s really NOT a big deal. But i also want to be left alone – and when you have a “breastfeeding crusader” as a friend (who is slowly becoming not a friend because i can’t take her) purposely pushing facebook limits to get boobs pics up, or constantly telling me i’ll be an evil mom if i don’t breastfeed, and frankly not being able to have a convo with her that doesn’t involve breasts – well, i’m sure you can understand how one can get tired of such crusades.

I think the easy solution is for people to realize that breastfeeding is natural. Just get over it. But people like my friend aren’t exactly helping!

Angela

Good point! I was only referring to women who are crusading to ensure that women who want to have the option to breastfeed, not to those who want force everyone else to make the same choices.

MellyG

Agreed. There shouldn’t really be a need to crusade.

darras

Your friend sounds like an absolute tit! I’d stop being her friend if I were you.. Evil if you don’t breastfeed? What the hell is wrong with her?? Some women CAN’T, I wonder if she ever thinks about how that might make them feel.. Not to mention there is absolutely nothing wrong with formula feeding, if there were there’d be a WHOLE generation (or two) of ‘wrong’ people.. geeze people like that make me so angry..

Erin Murphy

Ah. This makes more sense. I hate to bf in public I’ve got big boobies and none of the discreet tricks work for me. I also have a nosy baby who thinks the world is ending if he’s not in the action. When I feed him in public I try to just blend in and stay in a less traveled part of the store. I hope others see me as feeding my kid and not crusading. I hope other moms and even young women get a little boost that it’s no big deal.
PS formula is not evil! I was a week in when I told my husband that I don’t blame anyone who decides not to.

SNOWSCAS81

Thanks. You understood perfectly what I was trying to say. I fed my son formula by choice. I don’t know anyone personally who has breastfed. I know there are reasonable people that do but unfortunately the only ones that get any media attention are the ones like Flower Wreath Lady. Also, there are certain bloggers (not on Mommyish! :-D) and Internet sanctimommies that seem to think that if you formula feed your baby that you are a lazy cow that doesn’t give a damn about your baby and are slowly killing them with formula “poison”. So whenever a story like this comes out I’m a little wary of the person’s motives for telling their story. But we all know that airlines can be a pain in the butt. No argument there.

Guest

I wondered the same thing- because I have friends who use the covers that are like a loop around mom’s neck so she can still see baby just fine and fabric hardly touches the kid…so I guess I have a hard time believing that any kid would have a problem under one of those (with or without flailing arms). I could imagine if baby feels like you’re smoothering him with a blanket that is freaky but there are better options available nowadays.

TashaB

My kid hated any and all covers. We had one with the loopy things and the light fabric and she would freak and flail about with her little arms until it was away from her face and she could look around at the world.
It was a surefire way to draw attention to the fact that we were nursing, whereas if I didn’t use a cover, 99% of the time, no one was wiser.
Some babies hate all covers – even if they are the ‘better’ newfangled ones

Erin Murphy

The thrashing and screaming from my guy when I try to cover draws MUCH more attention than if I whip it out I’ve actually (quietly) begged him please nut here, not now. Please wait until I can get to the car. Little bellies just aren’t very patient.

Ro

As soon as my daughter could control her arms there was no way I could nurse her under a cover. It just made it more difficult and more obvious what I was doing because she just kept pushing the cover back and coming off my breast, leaving me completely exposed. It was less modest than it was going without a cover.

Copperkroewe

You obviously know very little about breastfeeding.

SNOWSCAS81

*in front of the Enfamil booth

Angela

And yet this scenario has pretty much nothing in common with that. The Enfamil mom chose to plop herself down right in front of the table. She was in the way and it wouldn’t be any more appropriate to to bottle feed a baby in that spot. Plus she was deliberately trying to make some preachy statement. A mom on a plane is just trying to feed her hungry kid. There’s literally no other place to go or no other option.

MellyG

I always think these debates are tricky. I’ve never breastfed, so i can’t intelligently speak about how hard it is to use a cover, etc. I’ve also been around close friends while they are pumping and breastfeeding and never felt uncomfortable. I mean, boobs – i have em, no biggie.

Having said that, I CAN understand why some passengers might feel uncomfortable next to a woman with her breast out when that passenger is quite literally on top of the woman (i mean, airline seats – unless you’re in first class…..if you’re sitting next to a breast feeding woman without a cover, her boob is going to basically be in your lap – and some people might be ok with that, some might not)

I also know that when i fly, it’s not going to be comfortable, or fun, and the airline policies mean there are certain things i can’t do during the flight. Obviously, this is tricky because it involves feeding a baby, and you can’t let a baby go that long without feeding, it’s just not possible.

So basically i’m not sure what a good solution is, i just don’t think either party is the villian (though usually i think airlines, except Virgin, are pretty villianous, seriously, they are awful) i just think it’s a tough situation. Flying is hard because everyone is cramped and on top of each other.

elle

Agreed. I’m having a hard time villifying Delta on this one but I definitely have sympathy for the BF mom, she can’t not feed her child and Truly not all babies will BF under a cover. On the other hand I must admit I would be less then enthusiastic about sitting next to a BF mom, but I wouldn’t complain about it just kind of bury myself in my movie/book/work whatever I’m doing. So yeah this is a rough situation with no good solution all around.

MellyG

Exactly. And it’s kind of why flying is tough. I get migraines very easily, so i often cringe when sitting next to someone who has brought along strong smelling food, or is wearing super strong perfume. I know that I will likely get a migraine, and be miserable the entire flight.

However, i know i can’t ask the passengers NOT to wear perfume, or NOT to bring on their food.

I think the solution is for airlines to give everyone more space – but that will happen in exactly never

elle

Lol, yep. They just take more and more space away. It’s getting ridiculous.

Emil

Thank you. There are a lot of things that might make me uncomfortable on an airplane but until I can afford my own private plane (which of course is never) I will just suck it up.

is this for real?

totes. i mean, delta is just breaking the law by saying she can’t bf on their plane. but, whatevs. so hard to villify them.

Angela

I think one solution might be for airlines to require parents to purchase a seat for infants. For one thing it’s safer and it would definitely be easier to breastfeed when you have two seats to work with (even if a car seats is in one) than if you’re crammed in the middle seat between two strangers with a baby on your lap. I do get that it’s a lot more expensive for families to fly this way and to be honest there have been times when I’ve flown with a lap infant to save money. I can say though that things go so much smoother when we’ve bit the bullet and paid for an extra seat. Plus I really don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect every passenger to have a ticket, regardless of age.

MellyG

Completely agree! And i get that it is pricey, but ya know what, having kids is expensive! I’ve been looking into moving to England, and I have to pay for my cats to come with me – it’s almost as much as my own flight! And they don’t even get a seat! They’re in cargo. But at the same time, i don’t expect the airline to let me take the kitties in my lap and bother the other passengers.

brebay

someone trying to do business, text, sleep, or who is just large uses more than their share of space, too.

MellyG

Those things are not another human. I also don’t see how texting (you can’t text while in the air btw) is taking up space. I usually have my laptop out on long flights, but it doesn’t spill over my tray top.

I think requiring an extra seat for another HUMAN is also a safety issue for both mom and baby.

brebay

You’ve obviously never sat next to a bony-elbowed teenager who is oblivious to the rest of the world. Also, if a baby and mom put together way less than half of a large man, no go.

MellyG

Actually i have – i believe i mentioned it in other comments. And actually, some airlines have come under fire for forcing heavier people to buy multiple tickets. I’m not sure why it’s different when i’ts another human?

brebay

They tried to make the lady next to me move and buy a second ticket. It was horrible. I was like “She’s fine, I’m fine, we can both buckle, move on.”

brebay

text, play, whatever. Not really the point.

MellyG

how does holding your phone take up space

brebay

Depends on how you do it. sat next to a girl who seriously had her elbow halfway across my lap. Some people, particularly if they’re playing a game, sort of move with the phone and get really into it. Had the flight been an hour longer, I would have lost my patience.

brebay

I may have to agree with you regarding the safety issue; carseat, turbulence, etc.

MellyG

It baffles me that people are SO strict about safety and car seats in cars, but it’s ok to just hold a baby on a plane? I don’t get that.

Angela

But the main argument for getting babies their own seats is for safety. The fact that families would have more space available is just an added perk.

OhHeyDelilah

Is safety really the issue, though? I’m genuinely asking – I would assume that airlines have done their safety due diligence when it comes to working out how best to seat an infant on a flight. They’re regulated pretty heavily in terms of maximising passenger safety; I doubt they’d do it for everyone else and then go ‘Pffft, a baby? Whatever – just chuck it on the parent’s lap and hope for the best.’

Angela

The FAA strongly recommends that parents buy seats for infants and use airplane approved car seats. There are instances where babies have been injured or even killed if the jet hits severe turbulence (usually from smacking heads with the parent) and of course in case of a crash it would be safer for the infant to be properly restrained.

Every so often there is a debate over whether to make this a requirement but so far they have opted not to citing that it would make flying too expensive for some families who would then drive instead. Since flying is much safer than driving the argument is that by getting more families to fly they are actually saving lives (though I suspect they’re more concerned about their bottom line if families opt not to fly).

OhHeyDelilah

Wow, really? That’s … disturbing. But good to know!

Psych Student

Recently a plane hit major turbulence and a baby went flying out of the parent’s arms and (thankfully) landed safely several seats back. When a plane hits turbulence, the jolt is so sudden and so strong that it is physically impossible to hang onto a child. It’s *much* safer to have them in a seat.

Amanda

I think it’s strange you guys seem to think breastfeeding = boobs hanging out. I nurse without a cover all the time, and you can’t see anything. Top shirt covers top of boob, tank top underneath covers bottom of boob and belly, baby’s head covers nipple that’s barely peeking out. Most of the time people don’t even know I’m nursing. So WHY would it be so uncomfortable to be next to a nursing mom? Just because you know OMG there are boobs under there DOING SOMETHING!!?

MellyG

If you notice, i didn’t say I was uncomfortable. Quite the contrary. I just said that, in such close cramped quarters (think about the time spent on a plane, every time i move my elbow to turn a page i feel like i’m elbowing the person next to me, and i’m not that big!) i said i can UNDERSTAND why SOME might feel uncomfortable.

It also depends on the woman doing the breastfeeding – i’ve known women that, when breastfeeding, DO have boob hanging out (because they don’t wear a top shirt! It’s just kind of all out there) you’re assuming that everyone breastfeeds like you.

When policies are set in place, it’s usually for the most extreme examples – Delta doesn’t have a guarantee that everyone is as discreet as you. They might have had experiences with women that have a lot more exposed. I don’t know. Everyone is different.

I also explained that i think it’s a tough situation, since you can’t really NOT feed a baby that long

Jamesmommy

THIS! I cannot tell you how many times I have been breastfeeding in public and had people carry on long, full conversations with me and never even realize that I was breastfeeding. Or they do, but only because they are assume he is sleeping and try to see his face and literally preen all in my personal space, putting their face 2inches from my boobs and then realize a little one is sucking away.

MellyG

You sound like my best friend. I NEVER know when she’s breastfeeding, unless i hear her baby start sucking loudly or hear the pump. But i NEVER see her boob, and she doesn’t use a cover. However, i’ve also seen ladies at the opposite end of the spectrum, making a big show of getting their boob out and making sure everyone sees. All women are different, so i’d imagine their approach is different as well. That’s all

Jamesmommy

True. You can’t guarantee that everyone is discreet. You also can’t guarantee that everyone is uncomfortable. So, we’re talking about having a policy in place in the chance that an obvious breastfeeder is sitting next to someone who is uncomfortable with it. And a policy that interferes with a baby getting FOOD (and food from the source that is universally agreed to be best and is recommended by every health organization in the world).

But, whatever. It’s doesn’t matter how she does it, or how the other person feels (frankly). It is a legal right to breastfeed ANYWHERE you have a legal right to be. Full stop. Period. What’s there to debate? You don’t like it? Sorry. I don’t like that you (not you, personally, of course, I don’t know you) use my arm rest, or play your music loud, or smell, or get up 900 freaking times to use the bathroom — all of which infringe on my personal comfort. Ask the flight attendant to move seats. Trust me, I’ve flown with and without a baby numerous times and people are ALWAYS getting seats changed, for any number of reasons, even on full flights.

MellyG

I don’t disagree…..just saying that I understand both sides. It’s tricky.

Guest

This. I have seen some breastfeeding ninjas who can do it without anyone noticing so it drives me nuts to see someone pull out a full boob and jam it in the kid’s mouth like its a massive production. I personally also have a hard time with the “he won’t use a cover”… he is ten weeks old, I think you can manage his tiny flailing arms and nurse covered or become a bf-ing ninja like the others.

Vikky

“Breastfeeding ninjas” usually have small boobs and quiet babies.

iamtheshoshie

My 6 week old has latch issues and is squirmy. I also have big, floppy boobs. I’ve managed to throw a blanket over us once he’s latched, but I’m pretty sure trying to get him on the boob with a cover would lead to screaming. I generally nurse with a stretchy tank top (shirt comes up, tank comes down) which means almost nothing is exposed while he’s latched. But getting him on usually involves some boob visibility.

Angela

Nursing usually doesn’t mean boobs hanging everywhere but I did find when trying to breastfeed my almost 1 year old on a plane that he was way too tall to fit across the tiny seat allotted to us. Fortunately my husband was sitting on one side of me and my oldest son on the other so I could be free to let his legs dangle out onto their laps. However, that would have been extremely awkward if there had been strangers on either side of me. If it had been just me and the baby I definitely would have needed to purchase him his own seat just to give us the necessary space.

Momma425

Couldn’t the uncomfortable person just trade seats with another passenger? If there was a mom breastfeeding and the person next to her decided to be a jerk about It, I would happily trade seats with them so that the offended party didn’t have to see it, and the mom could feed her baby next to someone who isn’t offended. Or are we assuming nobody on the plane is a reasonable human being as well?

MellyG

I’m just saying there’s two sides, no one is really a villain. You’re assuming it’s easy to trade seats, or that it will be allowed.

Momma425

Yes, I am assuming it is easy to trade seats and people are allowed- I fly Delta regularly and see people trade seats all the time for all sorts of different reasons.

I understand that there might be some people who are uncomfortable sitting next to a nursing mother- and if that is the case, they can deal with it, or find someone to trade seats with. It’s their problem, not hers, and not her job to try and accommodate. And seriously- it shouldn’t be a big deal.

MellyG

I try not to fly Delta, because i think they’re generally the lowest of the low when it comes to airlines, and that’s saying something, so I can’t speak for Delta. I DO know that’s not the same for all airlines.

And you’re right, it shouldn’t be a big deal. My issue is that on flights, it seems more of a space issue. I like another poster’s idea of buying a seat for infants. It would seem to solve a lot of problems

Victoria

Plus, even if it is easy to trade seats, if she’s a crusader (not saying she is, but as other commenters have said, her handle and the fact that she chose a public venue to raise this question when she could have called definitely makes it something of a possibility), even politely asking to change seats with someone who would be more comfortable with it could spark outrage.

(and I do think, as you suggest, proximity is an issue here).

MellyG

I’ve never sat next to a breastfeeding mom on a plane. I have in a car, or in a room, but not on a plane. It’s easy to say i’d be comfortable with it, but i’ve never been smooshed up against a breastfeeding woman either. And we’re kidding ourselves if we don’t think the cramped quarters is an issue. That’s why i like that another commenter suggested that parents buy seats for infants, it would solve the space issue.

But, on the other hand, it’s also uncomfortable when people try to do a lot of things that aren’t breastfeeding on a plane……it’s just cramped in general. Like i said, tough situation all around

Victoria

I agree. The only time I’ve been truly comfortable on a flight is when the seat next to me was empty. Close proximity is an issue on flights, and unless you’re flying first class, you’re probably going to be uncomfortable.

I have, however, seen a Facebook friend (acquaintance, really) who actually lists her political views as “Lactivist” post a rant after someone opted to move to an empty seat on a flight. It didn’t even occur to her that maybe they moved because they wanted to give her a little more room to nurse her child. And that’s where it gets awkward, because I know the majority of moms just want to feed their child in peace, but having seen someone who is permanently spoiling to for a fight, I wouldn’t really feel comfortable asking to move. I think that buying seats for infants is probably the best approach, too, since it gives parents more room to move around.

MellyG

Indeed. My facebook friend who is a self professed breastfeeding nazi (her words, not mine) would get upset and make a scene if someone looked away, let alone got up or asked for another seat!

I said before – the solution is for more room all around. But that’s never going to happen

Victoria

I think this is how the super-militant people are actually hurting their cause. It wasn’t until I encountered people who behave this way and heard stories like this that I got uncomfortable around breastfeeding mothers. And it wasn’t the act of breastfeeding itself, but the possibility that I’m actually sitting on the same bus as the Alpha Parent and something in my behavior reads as uncomfortable and they decide to use this moment to make a point and tell me what a repressed prude they think I am… Now, obviously, I’m in no way suggesting this as an argument against public breastfeeding, just that people who take it to these extremes are actually hurting themselves and the vast majority of women who are just trying to feed their children, not prove a point.

MellyG

I think that’s the case for anything really, which makes me sad.

I do agree that sometimes things need attention brought the cause, so that people take notice, but anytime people make others feel bad, that’s not really going to win anyone over, ya know?

Mikster

So I’d cough and cough and cough. My sinus drainage issues, plus quasi-asthmatic reactions to fragrances could have me hacking for the whole flight. Oh well.

MellyG

I carry loads of migraine meds on flights for me for this reason. And try to bring on non smelly snacks, not wear perfume, etc – i think people only think to really be aware of things like that AFTER they’ve had a reaction

Mikster

My husband and 3 sons are migraineurs. The husband gets cluster, the oldest son classic and the younger son ‘s have not differentiated quite yet. All 3 have fragrance triggers. I think eventually there will be fragrance bans, as we learn that migraines are really vascular events closely linked with stroke, TIAs and do leave small lesions on the brain. Prevention, not treatment will become the modus operandi, I believe, and as such, migraineurs will have a basis for invoking the ADA and fragrance-bans in public. I wish you luck with yours- have you ever considered botox in order to see if the surgery they do would be effective?

darras

I was actually unaware that fragrances and smelly foods can cause migraine. So thank you! I haven’t ever worn fragrance on a plane or taken smelly food but now that I know this I certainly shan’t ever do it.

Véronique Houde

Or just get up and walk around until she’s done, or go to the bathroom…

brebay

fake sleep always works.

brebay

It’s not literally on top of anybody. Eyes have lids.

MellyG

So another passenger should just close their eyes? I’m saying i can see both sides…..and I don’t think it’s right to automatically assume that someone who is not overly comfortable with someone breastfeeding THAT close (it is THAT close on a plane) to them is automatically an awful person

I do feel bad for the moms, as i can’t imagine having the space to breastfeed comfortably on a plane.

brebay

People do all kinds of revolting things in public; chew with their mouths open, belch, fart, fail to use deodorant… It’s public. I’d much rather see a baby eat than listen to an adult try to suck that piece of food out of his teeth, watch him pick his ear wax and look at it, or see two uggos grope each other; but, that’s what public is; a bunch of gross people exercising their freedoms. Breastfeeding shouldn’t be singled outjust because someone with issues feels uncomfortable.

MellyG

Did i say it SHOULD? I also mentioned in other comments that i cringe with strong smells on planes, but i can’t ask the other passenger not to wear their awful perfume or eat the food they’re eating.

I said it was a difficult situation all around, and i’m just not comfortable automatically jumping on the “someone has to be a villain” bandwagon

brebay

Easy, killer, no need to be so defensive. No one else have even said “villain.”

MellyG

I was just about to comment that everyone on this forum seems to be able to discuss things with great civility – but then you had to ruin it. “killer”? really? I’m not being defensive, I was explaining myself, i’ve never once said breastfeeding shoudl be singled out. YOU are the one that needs to stop being so defensive. But i guess it’s not ok to see both sides of the story. Everyone should just be forced to stare at breastfeeding and if they want to look away, they’re evil!

brebay

Lol…there you go again “easy, killer” is a pretty common expression… And no one’s forced to stare…that’s counter to the definition of staring.

MellyG

it’s a common expression when you’re trying to be condescending and not exactly civil. There are much nicer ways to go about disagreeing with someone. And no, i suppose no one is forcing you to be nice, i’m just a fan of civil discussions that don’t resort to people being all snarky.

brebay

Oh, honey, if you don’t like snark, you landed on the wrong site!

MellyG

I actually found everyone else to be pretty civil. But thanks for the warning, i’m a grown woman that can navigate for myself, and i’m completely comfortable calling out people when i feel they’re not being civil.

OhHeyDelilah

I can see that you’re looking at the issue from both sides. I do think it’s reasonable though that people who feel uncomfortable with something that is happening in their immediate vicinity take some responsibility for their own reaction to the situation though. If someone is breastfeeding and their seatmate is uncomfortable with it, it seems to me that the seatmate has a range of options available to them to alleviate that discomfort – look away, shut your eyes, whatever it is. I think there is a lot of pressure on breastfeeding women to make sure that everyone around them feels okay, and not enough pressure on people to check their own emotions and maybe examine why they are feeling so weird about something that is both natural and legal. It is far, far easier for someone feeling uncomfortable about breastfeeding to just look the other way or whatever than it is to expect a breastfeeding mother to try and cover a kid who doesn’t want to be covered, or to get up and move with a screaming baby who just needs to eat. That’s my five cents’ worth, anyway!

momma425

If someone next to you on a plane is doing something you find offensive or revolting (could be any number of things- breastfeeding, vomiting, not wearing deodorant, eating something smelly, loud music, snoring…), there a wide variety of options available:

-Passenger can get up, walk around the plane, go to the restroom, etc… assuming there isn’t a ton of turbulence and it’s not during take-off or landing.
-Passenger can look out the window, read a book, listen to music, play apps on their phone/ipad, listen to music- and basically look away and ignore what is going on next to them.
-Passenger can ask to switch seats with another passenger (or if the plane isn’t jam packed full, ask to switch into an empty seat).
-Passenger could have chosen to purchase a first class ticket and sit in a seat where there is a little bit more room (if the person knows they are easily offended by someone possibly being up in their space doing lord knows what on an airplane, this is a great option).
-Passenger could have chosen to drive, or use a means of travel where they can better control what they have to sit next to.

It’s really one of those things where I can have sympathy for a passenger who is annoyed by their seat-mates. Truly- people are gross, obnoxious, smelly, etc… I get it. I have sympathy and understanding- there have certainly been times in my life where I have been stuck next to someone who I didn’t like or who was doing something gross on an airplane. I was on an airplane one time and seated right next to a guy who spent a good portion of the flight air sick and vomiting into a bag. The plane was full, and nobody wanted to get up and trade seats with me (don’t blame them) so I had to sit there and deal with it for three hours. It smelled awful and was absolutely disgusting to see and listen to. I’m sure it bothered others on the plane besides me.

But sympathy is where it ends. We can’t control music volumes, clothing that other people wear (I have sat next to MANY a woman wearing more revealing clothing than what you would normally see during a breastfeeding session), illnesses, what other people smell like, food other people eat, etc… It sucks when you are in close proximity (on an airplane, waiting in line somewhere, in an elevator, on the bus/train/subway) with someone who is doing something that bothers you- but we are adults, and sometimes we have to just deal with something that we don’t like. In the example above- throwing up is totally gross, but biological, natural, part of life, and not something this guy could control. I was uncomfortable and grossed out for like 4 hours of my life- and then the plane landed and I got up and moved on. No need to throw a giant tantrum about it.

Realistically, if somebody is stuck next to someone on a plane who is breastfeeding and they are bothered- expecting the offended party to just look in a different direction is not out of line. It’s 10 hours of their life that they need to suck it up and deal with being uncomfortable. Not the end of the world.

MellyG

Also, for the record, I hate Delta. They’re usually the cheapest lately, but if i can, i will pay extra to fly with just about ANYONE else. They are just awful

Emil

They all seem to suck. I just flew United and all four flights (two each way) my entire family was seated separately despite specifically getting seats together. We try soooo hard not to be disruptive and my daughter is crying because she’s only four and doesn’t want to sit alone and the flight attendant asking people to move seats. Everyone was really nice about it but I was mortified.

MellyG

The only two airlines i haven’t wanted to curse in the last 10 years have been Virgin and Jet Blue. Even coach in Virgin is SO lovely. They’ve never been delayed, lost luggage, etc. ONE time they had to cancel my flight, and delay by a day (international flight) so on the way back they let me 1) postpone coming back by a day and 2) upgraded me to business class. Fantastic customer service right there!

Unfortunately Virgin doesn’t have as many options domestic, and they’re a little pricier, but if i’m doing a 5 hour or plus flight, i will find the extra money every single time! (and assuming i get to move across the pond this summer, i will ONLY be trusting Virgin with helping me transport my cats)

AP

Virgin has a better luggage policy than the other carriers, too: they charge a flat rate, per bag, for up to 10 checked bags per passenger. The other carriers increase the charge per bag and have a lower maximum of bags per passenger.

This was a HUGE deal when my husband and I were moving. We ended up not needing to check more than 2 bags, but we didn’t know that three months earlier when we bought the tickets.

MellyG

Did you guys move overseas? I’ve been stressing about packing, but yea, that’s another reason to to go with Virgin! I just find them much more reasonable all around

Angela

I’m with you although when we fly to see my in-laws they’re the only airline that offers a direct flight so we usually go with them anyway just to avoid the hassle of trying to make a layover flight while carting kids, car seats, bags, etc.

Rowan

I’d rather see a nursing boob that some bloke’s hairy arse-cleavage any day. Where’s the airline policy about that?

brebay

Seriously, plumbers should have to wear a blanket around their waists.

Rowan

Say no to crack!

coffeeandshoes

I can see this from both sides, so my biggest question is this – why did she take this to Twitter rather than make a phone call? I understand wanting something in writing, but that’s when you ask the person on the phone for an email or for the location on the website where the policy is written. Something about taking it to Twitter makes it seem like at least some of her point her was to bring attention (though less dramatically than flower wreath floor lady). That’s the part I have trouble with, I think.

Ro

What’s wrong with bringing attention to the fact that in this day and age, years after a law was put in place, women are still being told they can not breastfeed their babies uncovered in public? Is it okay that women are still being humiliated and asked to leave places for doing something that is completely legal?

Crusty Socks

You know there are other airlines that don’t suck greasy balls sack like Delta right?

If you know Delta don’t allow breastfeeding, go fly another carrier. Why try to FORCE others to change instead of giving them an incentive to change?

Rachel Sea

Have you tried to get a customer service rep from a major corporation on the phone recently? It’s a MASSIVE pain in the ass.

“Press one if this is you reason for calling, press 3 if that reason can be broken down in this way, press 5 for this information, using the touch tone keypad, enter your first and last names, social security number, reservation number, first pet’s name, name of third grade teacher, and the set-up password you should have received in that email we never sent because our system was down….I’m sorry I didn’t get that, please try again later. Goodbye.”

Toaster

She could have tried to get help via phone or email and was unsuccessful. When I’ve had a customer service issue I couldn’t resolve through conventional means I’ve turned to Twitter and usually received a prompt and relevant response.

brebay

So disqus is no longer displaying downvotes? Gee, how touchy.

Harriet Meadow

I breastfed my son without a cover on several flights. On three of the four occasions, the people next to me were asleep. On the fourth occasion, the woman next to me never knew I was doing it. At the end of the flight, she turned to me and said, “Wow, he just slept the whole time, didn’t he?” Seriously. What’s the big fuss?

Jamesmommy

Why does breastfeeding mom = woman who wants to show you her bits? I mean, seriously. If you met me and my baby was in a stroller, I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t be thinking that I wanted to show you my boobs. But, as soon as you know I breastfeed, it seems you also come to believe that my every thought and desire is consumed with how I’m going to flash you.

http://www.twitter.com/ohladyjayne allisonjayne

I saw a gorilla nursing her baby at the zoo on the weekend and like she wasn’t even wearing PANTS let alone a nursing cover. HUSSY.

Alexandra

I hope you reported her to the zoo, that type of behavior should get her kicked out.

Tina

I wonder why rarely in the comments of any breastfeeding post the age of the child does not matter to many people. It’s either “Women have the right to breastfeed wherever and whenever they want!!! EVERYBODY NURSE-IN” or “Respect for everyone around you, cover up PLEASE! EVERYONE IS UNCOMFORTABLE ”

For me personally (and for many others I know) the age of the baby is so key. An infant breastfeeding, even in public, is natural and expected. They need to be fed and kept comfortable, they are helpless and cannot wait it out. In this particular case the baby is ten weeks old! Not only can it not have any other foods but it does not refuse a bottle or cover to be difficult, it just responds to natural instinct. The mother shouldn’t even have to ask if she is allowed, she should expect the right to it.

However, on the other side of things, I have witnessed women shamelessly breastfeeding a two year old beside me in situations like on a greyhound bus. One minute the kid is talking and smiling and interacting with everyone around him and the next is having a snack from mom’s uncovered breast. Come on, it’s just strange. I’ve never been all that comfortable with extended breastfeeding in general and I think that since it is not based on need as the child can definitely eat complementary foods in public and nurse in private.

Perhaps if the mission to normalize breastfeeding wasn’t striving for a free-for-all, people and companies would be more understanding and protective of those mother of newborns and young infants who ACTUALLY need this to change.

doodlebug2

Amen, sister!

Guest

*Things that make me not want to breastfeed
Apparently life is a giant pain in the arse when you breastfeed and also you have to be a jerk in response to any question asked of you in the boob feeding arena.

doodlebug2

The woman at the center of this story irks me to no end. She was obviously shit stirring and looking for a fight. It seems to me that she was hoping Delta would respond the way they did. Why did she ask them this question in a public forum instead of just calling or emailing them? Not to mention the fact that she already knew what the law states about breastfeeding. She already knew that she has a right to breastfeed wherever and whenever she wants to. Why didn’t she just get on the flight and pull her damn tits out and worry about the consequences later? What are they going to do, open up the emergency doors mid flight and kick her off? Give me a fucking break. This woman is obviously part of the breastfeeding Nazi brigade, just looking to shit stir for the fun of it.