Did Curse destroy Monkey Island?

Clearly there are a few people here that view Curse as the actual down point of the series, really laying into it, saying that the series would be better off dead than to have the Curse/Escape/Tales stories. Now, strong views, could be because of how they perceive the story or it could be something to do with the lack of Ron Gilbert being the main series runner once MI2 ended, but here's a coin flip thread, for anything that was done/explained in Curse, I'm going to take a look at why it was BAD and why it was GOOD. So let's get started:

THE BIG ONE: It was all a Dream/Curse??BAD: In Monkey Island 1 and 2 we have many modern day references, as Monkey Island 2 progresses further into weirdness at the end we learn that LeChuck and Guybrush are brothers and are really kids at some amusement park, we're lead to believe that the series was actually in the head of a child with an over active imagination, as the credits roll we see Chuckie's eyes glow and somewhat resemble LeChuck facial features, but hey, this is just a cheeky nod to the gamer right? If we believe this route, then there would never be a Monkey Island 3, the idea is out, why would gamers want to play a game storyline they know is just the imagination of some kid, any threatening things in such story wouldn't matter anymore (which is odd seeing as Guybrush can Die in both Monkey Island 1 and 2). There were loads of book titles in the library that mention why Trilogies suck, etc so even though the idea was mentioned afterwards, Monkey Island 2 WAS meant to be the final story, the shock ending was meant to show the gamer that this amazing world they've been in for so long was actually just the dreams of a little boy.

GOOD: But wait, Chuckie's face turns into LeChuck as Guybrush and his parents walk away from him, and let's talk about Big Whoop, in the story, we already know that Four Crewmen and even LeChuck himself have seen Big Whoop and how terrible it is, yet here, in this odd tunnel, the crate is smashed, there is nothing in this crate except for a single E-Ticket, somethings not right here. Then we start seeing things from Melee Island and even the street from Melee Island itself, this is all getting weirder by the minute. Then comes the moment when Guybrush finally rips apart LeChuck, but wait, he's our Brother, our Kid Brother? And this Janitor appears telling us to get out? Then we get our weird ending, with the sinister glance from LeChuck to the player letting us know something is not right. And of course during the end credits we flash back to the Monkey Island universe where Elaine is waiting for Guybrush and comments that she hopes LeChucks hasn't put some kind of Curse on him and this is what Curse and essentially the rest of the series has built upon, has the rest of a series continued on from a throw away joke at the end of MI2, or was Guybrush really cursed and everything from waking up in the tunnels fake?

I forgot to mention Michel Creaton yes. As well as Godfather films with Mario Puzzos' input e.t.c. I did not claim that Curse destroyed MI. On the contrary it reboosted it. I just mentioned things I did not like and perhaps not a gospel but the original creator input is very important to the storyline. I started playing the games from MI1 in EGA version. I think that older fans and more sentimentaly attached than newer fans with no offense to anyone.Demetris

You really can't be serious can you? For years and years Ron Gilbert has been saying that probably the ONLY thing he did not like in Curse was the way LA handled the relationship between Elaine and Guybrush as he said that Elaine sees Guybrush as her annoying brother and not as a lover!!!

This makes no sense. In fact, the more I think about it, the more it infuriates me.

I've played SoMI a LOT of times and did it seem then like they had a brother-sister relationship then?

In a word: NO. -.-

Guybrush : Who would have known, or even cared, if you'd let me drown?Governor : I would have, Guybrush.Guybrush : (walks away) Oh, Governor...Governor : (comes closer) Oh, Threepwood...Guybrush : (comes closer) Oh, Elaine!Governor : (comes closer) Oh, Guybrush!Guybrush : (comes closer) Love muffin! Governor : (comes closer) Sugar boots!Guybrush : (comes closer) Honey pumpkin!Governor : (comes closer) Plunder bunny!Guybrush : Kiss me!Governor : (turns away) No! We mustn't!Guybrush : What?Governor : Not here, where everyone can see us.Guybrush : Why, are you ashamed of me?Governor : No, no, it's not that at all... It's just that many of these pirates have made advances toward me. And to avoid hurting their feelings, I've always told them that my father made me promise never to fall in love with a pirate. If they see us together, they'll know I was lying.

This is not a brother-sister relationship. I totally agree with DonCopal saying that that aspect of MI2 makes little sense, while CMI got the relationship back where it should have been.

If Ron Gilbert thinks that CMI messed up their relationship because they should have had a more sibling type of relationship, then he shouldn't have had them making sexual advances toward each other in the first game! I mean, seriously. It makes me mad how stupid it sounds to suggest that they didn't love each other as consenting adults.

even in MI 2 Guybrush was saying how he wants to win her back with the love bomb and other lines mention guybrush having feelings for her. Elaine allmost got back with him till he mentioned the map. I never once thought of them as bro and sis relation more just a rough patch

If Ron Gilbert thinks that CMI messed up their relationship because they should have had a more sibling type of relationship, then he shouldn't have had them making sexual advances toward each other in the first game! I mean, seriously. It makes me mad how stupid it sounds to suggest that they didn't love each other as consenting adults.

If I remember Gilbert's quote right he was saying more that she saw him kind of like a little brother, not that they had a sibling relationship. The second game makes it pretty clear that Elaine has some attraction to guybrush but doesn't really respect him as an adult, hence the relationship not really working at all. The third game abruptly giving them a traditional trouble-free romance without even acknowledging the development of her character in the previous game was simply poor storytelling, there's really no two ways about it.

Well, I think that Curse, Escape and Tales fit more with the idea of their relationship that was developed in Secret than Revenge does. As was said earlier in this thread, he is a pirate after all. He's not a conventional pirate, but that was part of his charm: "Why do you want to be a pirate? You don't look like one, your face is too... sweet."

Personally, I don't feel that Revenge sufficiently explained why she was mad at him in the first place, and for him to want the map is just part an adventure he was on. In Secret, she didn't seem to care that he was working on the trials and so needed the idol. Why then should she be mad at him for wanting the map?

Also, in Revenge, she ridicules him for giving a too-long explanation, but I was always rather mad at her for not interrupting him long enough to get him out of that hole.To force him to explain himself in full before she even considers helping him was, I think, rather selfish. And again, it's not made entirely clear exactly why she's so mad at him as to make him do that. For him to want the map is just his modus operandi. She should know him well enough not to be mad about that.

Near the end of Secret, it's made clear that she felt she had the situation with LeChuck well in hand without Guybrush's help but I would think that, as a woman, she would appreciate the gesture and think it valiant and romantic. In Revenge, however, it seems that she thinks he's inept and is wasting his time with pointless adventures instead of paying more attention to her. She wasn't so selfish in Secret to treat him that way, she was more independent than that, and so the same for the later games where she seems to understand him better then.

In fact, I would add that at the end of Curse, she seems to have redirected the roller coaster, knowing full well that Guybrush would make his way there in an effort to stop LeChuck. Her doing so helped him in creating a way to stop LeChuck, which is in line with both Tales and Secret in that she seems to have been making plans. The only difference with Secret is that she had her own plans in that game, hadn't included Guybrush in them and so didn't expect him to mess them up. By Curse and Tales however, she knows him well enough to plan around and for his usual method of operation. It makes perfect sense to me.

I think Revenge is the one that doesn't make sense. In that game, she seems to be completely oblivious that he's been hanging by a rope over a giant hole for 3 days, makes no effort to help Guybrush or stop LeChuck after Guybrush falls (she only says "What could be keeping Guybrush? I hope LeChuck hasn't put some horrible SPELL over him or anything",) and gets mad at him for doing something that she ignored completely in Secret, perhaps even encouraged back then.

In fact, I would add that at the end of Curse, she seems to have redirected the roller coaster, knowing full well that Guybrush would make his way there in an effort to stop LeChuck. Her doing so helped him in creating a way to stop LeChuck, which is in line with both Tales and Secret in that she seems to have been making plans. The only difference with Secret is that she had her own plans in that game, hadn't included Guybrush in them and so didn't expect him to mess them up. By Curse and Tales however, she knows him well enough to plan around and for his usual method of operation. It makes perfect sense to me.

I think Revenge is the one that doesn't make sense. In that game, she seems to be completely oblivious that he's been hanging by a rope over a giant hole for 3 days, makes no effort to help Guybrush or stop LeChuck after Guybrush falls (she only says "What could be keeping Guybrush? I hope LeChuck hasn't put some horrible SPELL over him or anything",) and gets mad at him for doing something that she ignored completely in Secret, perhaps even encouraged back then.

I agree with most of what you said. However, the reason why Elaine probably got so upset over him wanting the map piece was because she thought he truly wanted to apologize to her. In Secret, Guybrush came to the mansion solely for the purpose of wanting the idol and it makes more sense for Elaine not to get mad at him then because he didn't try to use his attraction to her as a disguise for what he really wanted. She does get upset though when he could not form a cohesive sentence, showing that even though she didn’t get upset for stealing the idol, she still wanted manners from him.

In Revenge, she had stopped seeing him, but obviously still had feelings for him. By the time of Revenge, she had developed a lot of feelings for him and for him to come in saying he is sorry only for her to find out that he wants the map was a crushing blow to her emotions. Even if many people think that she should’ve realized that it is part of who he was to want the map and should not have taken it personally, emotions always get the better of you. When you are emotional, it overrides any type of logic. People are much more prone to illogical actions when they are emotional, especially if it deals with intimate feelings, such as Elaine demonstrated when she threw the map piece out the window.