Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0407:38 PM

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0408:06 PM

i thought conservative talking head Robert Novak <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/blog/10/13/one.blog/">blogged</a> it best with this comment during the debate (i also thought dubya was quite quick to skip away from the questions tonight):<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Dodging the question <br><br>Dodging the question<br>In response, Bush just completely went off topic and started talking about education, how kids need to learn addition and subtraction. The thing is, you don't need much math when you're making $5.15 an hour. You can kind of add up your day's pay on your fingers and toes.<br><br>Posted: 10:09 p.m. ET<br>From Robert Novak, CNN<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>--<br>one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. -Plato

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0408:22 PM

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0408:25 PM

interesting analysis from watching on cnnfn. it was really interesting to see.<br><br>dubya did pretty poorly overall. with men he averaged about a 6.5 - 7, and with women he averaged a 5.5 - 6. multiple times he dropped to 3.5! he only hit the 9.0 mark three times: flu, wife, and faith.<br><br>kerry did better in the insta-polling. with men he average about a 7 - 7.25, but with women he averaged about a 7.5 - 8. his lowest was a 6 from either men or women, and he hit 9.0 quite a large number of times. i'd estimate about 9 or 10 times. he even hit 9.5 a few times. kerry hit 9+ on: wife, faith, abortion, gay rights, minimum wage, health care, social security and a couple others.<br><br>the most shocking thing about it was that dubya's jokes fell flat (i thought they were bad, so i was encouraged to see others viewed it the same way). with the cbs joke, he dropped to below 5 from kerry's 8 at the end of the question. both people dropped when talking about security. bush dropped the few times he got angry. kerry went way up when he got funny. dubya registered pretty poorly with women on the gay rights and abortion issues. fairly shocking to me. he did a little better with men on gay rights, but on both issues he scored well under kerry.<br><br>with their final statements, kerry registered at 8.5 with women and 8 with men. bush was at a 7.5 with men and women.<br><br>from the instapoll, i'd say kerry won.<br><br>in my opinion, kerry won in a few different ways:<br><br>style: tie.. bush did great tonight and so did kerry. they both came off as personable, funny, and boring all at once.<br><br>substance: kerry's message was better and more sound. dubya stumbled quite a bit and showed some fundamental misunderstandings of minimum wage and others. whenever dubya got stuck he turned back to no child left behind. kerry killed the nclb talk with the under funding comments.<br><br>overall, i feel the analysts early predictions were right: this was dubya's weakest area, and it showed. due to such a poor job overall through the last four years, his arguments were weakened and it was easy for kerry to disassemble them and rebut with his own.<br><br><br><br>--<br>one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. -Plato

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0408:29 PM

You're right... especially the out-sourcing question... he said "Let's get 'em in a community college." Neither pointed out that people that already have a college education are losing jobs too. No community college can fix that.<br><br>

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0408:31 PM

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0408:32 PM

and, the tony soprano reference was the memorable line of the night. <br><br><br>--<br>one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. -Plato

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0408:34 PM

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0408:37 PM

it was actually not a classic debate in the sense that it was one that was going to be memorable. <br><br>here's the line: <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>. . . I want to speak for a second, if I can, to what the president said about fiscal responsibility.<br><br>Being lectured by the president on fiscal responsibility is a little bit like Tony Soprano talking to me about law and order in this country.<br><br>(LAUGHTER)<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>--<br>one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. -Plato

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0408:56 PM

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0408:59 PM

I thought it was the most boring of them all, including the v-ps. Nothing new, really--move on.<br><br>Bush was more controlled than in the town-hall debate, where he was shrill as a shrike (no idea how shrill shrikes are, mind you, but the alliteration works for me). And as he said, Laura did a good job telling him to stand up straight and stop scowling. He was also pretty eloquent on the religious stuff--and to me therefore frightening. I thought he came within an inch of implying that he is a divine agent spreading "freedom" around the world. Maybe he is, I won't deny the possibility--but to think so is a real problem.<br><br>I thought Kerry (and Bush too) repeated every point that he's made before. Boring. He missed an opportunity to emphasize Bush's divisiveness when Bush made reference to Kerry's being a Massachusetts senator. Is the implication that Massachusetts, perhaps all of New England, and maybe even all of the Northeast, is to be suspected? They all are different up there, you know--must be all that Nor'easter wind. So also flat.<br><br>

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0408:59 PM

yeah, i thought for a second that he was starting to foam at the mouth. ewww!<br><br><br>--<br>one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. -Plato

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0409:07 PM

Okay, that's funny enough - but meaningless. I think for points on appearance, Bush's sacarstic grinning 'moments of disbelief' before responding to Kerry's answers got old the second time, but he kept doing it the whole night.<br><br>Overall, Kerry looked more presidential than the president With so many questions asked about faith, I think Kerry won those points too. That's going to count for some votes.<br><br><br><br>

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0410:02 PM

here's what you missed: from ABC's australian website:<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Democrat John Kerry won the third presidential debate tonight over US President George W Bush, according to instant polls taken by US television networks.<br><br>Fifty-two per cent of those polled by CNN said Kerry won the debate in Tempe, Arizona, while 39 per cent said Bush won.<br><br>The poll had a five percentage-point margin of error.<br><br>In CBS's poll of uncommitted voters, 39 per cent said Kerry won, 25 per cent Bush and 36 per cent called it a tie. The margin of error was seven percentage points.<p><hr></blockquote><p>gotta love those polls <br><br><br>--<br>one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. -Plato

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0410:03 PM

Y'know Bush's tone in all three of these debates has been that of a defensive teenager whose parents get home a day early and find the house a mess from the previous night's party: "WHAT DO YOU MEAN? *HUFF* I TOOK THE GARBAGE OUT THIS MORNING!!! WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME!?!?!"<br><br>Kerry finally started saying something that I wish he would have touched on repeatedly.<br><br>Being at war with terror is no excuse for having done such a craptacular job of taking care of the country. WWI, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam... all those Presidents managed to be "War Presidents" and still have a plan/not excuses for domestic issues.<br><br>I also think Kerry could have made a better impression on national security/foreign policy if he would have repeatedly quoted "Walk Softly And Carry A Big Stick". It sounds like that's what he's trying to describe...<br><br><br>

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0410:11 PM

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0410:48 PM

I prefer these highly scientific online polls (nothing like seeing it on Fox)<br><br><br><br>After all three debates the first 4-5 hours have shown a double digit lead for Kerry. Then sometime around 1:00-4:00 a.m. EST the Bush votes really pick up and the Kerry votes seem to stop completely. By the time I check it in the morning I'm sure Bush will a nice, comfortable lead. None of the other polls seem to do that. Strange. <br>

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0411:11 PM

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0411:23 PM

Karen Hughes must have introduced Bush to the concept of the "pay as you go" one-liner. It seems Rove has noticed the frequency with which Kerry attacks Bush on abandoning this principle of fiscal conservativism and thinks it could present the opportunity for a great "defining moment" one-liner using the phrase. He is to wait until he hears the phrase "pay as you go" to engage the joke-gears and deliver at the very next opportunity. And sure enough, Kerry utters the phrase "pay as you go." Instantly, Bush hears in his mind, "Pay. Go. Pay. Go. Pay. Go...." and at the next opportunity for a response, this is the "gem" as he delivers it:<br><br>"He talks about pay-go. I'll tell you what pay-go means: when you're a senator from Massachusetts, when you're a colleague of Ted Kennedy, pay-go means you pay and he goes ahead and spends." <br><br><br>

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0411:31 PM

I thought that was pretty ridiculous. Every thing Bush said about wanting to work together and unite the country in his second term just rang hollow every time he slung that kind of label at John Kerry.<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey<br>

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/13/0411:53 PM

That fox poll (and others like it) kills me. The question is "who won", not "did you watch? and who won?"... doing it that way diffuses the bad numbers for Bush by including percentages for answers that do NOT answer the question. (C and D are irrelevant).<br><br>

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/14/0412:22 AM

Re: Bush's Performance - 10/14/0407:59 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>[img]By the time I check it in the morning I'm sure Bush will a nice, comfortable lead[/img]<p><hr></blockquote><p>Nope.<br>11AM Thurs.<br><br><br>I voted for Kerry on this poll. I was only half heartedly watching while playing in a poker tourney on-line, but Bush seemed to be even more of an azz from what I saw.<br><br>