Breaking the chains, winning the games, and saving Western Civilization.

Tuesday, July 22, 2014

Female advice and the Sex-22

It's always amusing to hear female opinions on how to solve a crisis caused by female behavior. Mostly because their first instinctive response is to deny it is a crisis:

“I think the fact that the guy communicates via a spreadsheet is the reason why he’s not getting sex,” is the verdict from relationship counsellor Francine Kaye. “If a man wants to be desired, he has to speak to a woman’s feminity. He has to stop complaining and start thinking 'What do I have to do in order for her to want to have sex?’ ”

A good start is the kind of wooing behaviour most husbands assumed they had left behind as soon as the ring was on the bridal finger. Erroneously, they think that compliments and flowers, hand-holding and general attentiveness are not just unnecessary but cheesy once they are married. Cheesy they may be, but necessary – as attested by the short shrift given to Mr Spreadsheet.

Did I not call that yesterday? What is relationship counsellor Kaye's statement, if not a retroactive justification of a woman's action. Translation: start paying attention to other women. Then she'll magically find her missing motivation. There are three things that speak to a woman's femininity.

Be attractive

Don't be unattractive

Competition aka (1) and (2) seen through the mechanism of other women

Choreplay doesn't work. Romance doesn't work. Vacations don't work. Talk doesn't work. Men have tried those things many, many, many times. Here is why it will never work to do what a woman says you need to do in order to make her want to have sex: the moment you do what she tells you is necessary, that "creates pressure" on her to fulfill her end of the implicit bargain. And women under pressure to have sex don't want to have sex, because women don't want to have sex under pressure, ergo doing what she tells you necessarily ENSURES that she will not want to have sex.

Did you follow that? It's a Catch-22, or in this case, a Sex-22.

She says she'll want to have sex if you take her to Mazatlan.

You take her to Mazatlan.

She is now under pressure to want to have sex.

Feeling under pressure prevents her from wanting to have sex.

Rinse and repeat.

So, don't bother taking her to Mazatlan. Don't waste your time on whatever women advise no matter how many women blithely recite the usual mantras. Go back to the basics. Go to the gym, improve your style, focus on your career and making more money, and either a) she'll be more attracted to you or b) someone else will.

You can't fix someone else. You can't change someone else. You can only control your own actions. If she wants spend her life as a sexless slug parked in front of a television, that's her choice and its on her. No one else.

67 comments:

When you said, "because women don't want to have sex under pressure, ergo doing what she tells you is necessarily ENSURES that she will not want to have sex," I think you meant, "...because women don't want to have sex under pressure, ergo doing what she tells you is necessary ENSURES that she will not want to have sex."

Yes, game changes the way women behave around you, because women (and men too for that matter) behave differently around people they find attractive than around people they don't find attractive. But you're the one who changes in this example, not her.

Yes, game changes the way women behave around you, because women (and men too for that matter) behave differently around people they find attractive than around people they don't find attractive. But you're the one who changes in this example, not her.

How can you still claim that she never changed in the example?

You bust a move on her. She gave you the cold shoulder because your game sucks. You improve your game. You bust a move on her again. She now wants you in her. She never changed?

For too long now raw meat had been dangled in front of a chained starving dog. The dog has been taunted, leered at, poked, prodded, and beaten. He has had everything taken from him, his chain pulled tight, and left to sit alone in the rain, hungry, starving and uncared for.

His abuse has been a matter of some hilarity to those dangling the meat in front of him. He is taunted, and he hears, “look, but don’t touch”. Now, “don’t even look at it”. Now, “don’t even think about it”. His tormentors sleep well at night, like psychic leeches, feasting off the hope and despair. Secure in beds, warm and comfortable, knowing that the taunted dog is chained tightly down.

The corrosion of perverted values, the rust of moral decay, the same disgusting traits that were harnessed to harass, demean and enslave the dog, are now weakening the chain. Cracks in the links are starting to appear. The bolts holding the chain to ground are rusted and threadbare. One push, one catastrophic taunt more, and the chain will break.

When the dog, so long abused, so long neglected, so long taunted, and so long imprisoned breaks free his chain, beware. The built up hostility, earned through each voracious taunting, is a tidy sum. Interest has been earned over the long and painful years, and a reckoning is long past due. When the dog breaks free the consequences will be dire and nothing that follows from that point is undeserved. There will be no pity for those who mocked that dog, for those who starved him, for those that taunted and demeaned him.

I see what you're saying. Kind of like how fixing the brake lines on someones car has transformative power rivaled only by Christ, in that it fundamentally changes someone from the kind of person who won't drive their car to the kind of person who will.

Many, if not most Game techniques are of limited application within a marital relationship. They're not all irrelevant, but they're simply not as applicable. This is why it is a bigger challenge than simple pickup artistry.

Throw in the additional strictures of Christian morality and they are even less relevant. Then add in the complications of Marriage 2.0 and you should grasp that it's not a simple matter of "Dude, just improve your Game!"

It's like telling a baseball player who is striking out: "Dude, just hit more home runs!"

I mean, what is the whole point of 1 BE ATTRACTIVE, 2 DON"T BE UNATTRACTIVE if these do not do anything at all?

It does something; it just doesn't change her. You can prove it by going back to your unattractive ways and seeing how quickly she stops being interested in sex again.

If you sell your Yugo and buy a Ferrari, and get three speeding tickets in the next month, did you "change" into a speed demon? No, the faster car just unleashed a trait you already had. You didn't change. The woman in this case always wanted to have sex with a dominant man, but her husband wasn't one. When he became one, it unleashed desire she already had. She didn't change.

Change on her part might look like: she's not happy with her marriage so she consults her mother, her pastor, and/or scripture, and is told that she needs to subject herself fully to her husband; so she determines to cheerfully offer him sex every night for the next year and cut back on her nagging as much as possible.

A baseball player striking out needs practice, just like a pickup artist "striking out" needs practice. You know this.

Yes, I do. Again, this is about marriage. Not pickup artistry. Are you married? If not, then simply you don't know what you're talking about, and should not try to chime in on this particular subject.

I mean, what is the whole point of 1 BE ATTRACTIVE, 2 DON"T BE UNATTRACTIVE if these do not do anything at all?

Because most people are very different in their marriages where one is not simply making an initial impression on a stranger. The two scenarios are completely different and treating them as if they are the same is not viable.

A good start is the kind of wooing behaviour most husbands assumed they had left behind as soon as the ring was on the bridal finger. Erroneously, they think that compliments and flowers, hand-holding and general attentiveness are not just unnecessary but cheesy once they are married. Cheesy they may be, but necessary – as attested by the short shrift given to Mr Spreadsheet.

Women really don't even know what attracts them to the man they're attracted to in the first place. Upon meeting, what is most significant about the romantic gestures is the man who is doing them, not the gestures themselves. If it were all about flowers and attentive doting, Deltas and Gammas would be considered the most attractive men around. This comes naturally to them. What a woman is elated by is a man she already sees as attractive due to his power, status, looks and/or a combination of them all choosing to do these romantic gestures for her when she knows he could be doing them for someone else. A married man whose wife is already showing blatant signs of not being attracted to him is not going to have any success with these gestures.

I remember being confused about my own attraction to my husband. For a time early in our marriage, he did do the flowers, notes, date nights etc. that were suggested by marriage books. I was so frustrated, why wasn't I feeling the same elation I felt when we first met? Why was I struggling so much to feel the attraction for him? I didn't even know and could not verbalize what would rekindle my attraction for him. Thus I am in complete agreement with not taking advice from women for successful marriage. Observation is key. Watch what women respond to, not what they say they think they respond to.

"SarahsDaughter said... ...Women really don't even know what attracts them to the man they're attracted to in the first place. ... July 22, 2014 at 6:49 AM "

This principle can be extended, many women don't know what they like until you tell them.

I was frustrated by this when younger.

My inchoate frustration grew as I dated one girl after another that were merely compliant. They were along for the ride and that was it. I was looking for some initiative, for some reciprocity, some zing, some reason to keep her around beyond her body. I kept not finding it, mainly because I was looking for the wrong thing in the wrong way.

I was expecting this thing I was looking for to be there on its own when all the while I was needing to provide the motivation by making clear my expectations.

Put another way, while I was waiting for them to show me who they were they were waiting for me to tell them what to do.

If in a Christian marriage, how do you get the same effect of competition without the threat of an affair? It is quite tricky. I do not consider cheating to be a viable option. Either you're in or you're out. I do believe the woman in the example is setting herself up for a breakup and that explains it all.

Sexual compatibility is a major problem in most marriages. It is just not attainable. I do think modern women are at their worst behavior. It doesn't get better if it starts out this badly.

This principle can be extended, many women don't know what they like until you tell them.

Which is why "I don't know, what do you want to do?" is such a deadly attraction killer.

Guys who don't believe this should check out profiles on Plenty Of Fish, or other dating sites that ask what you'd like to do on a first date. Even women who fill out the rest of the profile with loads of blather about their fascinating careers and hobbies and taste in music will rarely put more than a sentence about that. When given the opportunity to describe their Dream First Date, they generally come up with, "I dunno, something fun. Maybe dinner and a movie."

They're much happier when a man they look up to just tells them what to do.

"I was expecting this thing I was looking for to be there on its own when all the while I was needing to provide the motivation by making clear my expectations. Put another way, while I was waiting for them to show me who they were they were waiting for me to tell them what to do."

This is good. For the most part women really need you to teach them how to treat you, teach them what you expect. Women are not born knowing and our society tells us something entirely different. Sometimes it seems as if men expect women to just magically understand them and than get irritated when we don't.

Okay, so why are married men even asking for sex in the first place? I'm laughing a bit uncomfortably here, but I can't recall hubby ever "asking," as if sex were a question. He's very kind and respectful, but I think if he had ever felt the need to ask permission, the simple act of having to make a choice would have felt like pressure to me. If I had to stop and think, do I want to have sex, the answer more often then not, would probably be no, because I'd need to do the dishes or take a shower or any other myriad of practical things.

Many, if not most Game techniques are of limited application within a marital relationship. They're not all irrelevant, but they're simply not as applicable. This is why it is a bigger challenge than simple pickup artistry.

Throw in the additional strictures of Christian morality and they are even less relevant. Then add in the complications of Marriage 2.0 and you should grasp that it's not a simple matter of "Dude, just improve your Game!"

Quite true, my own experience was proof of that. Initially, introduction of Game into my marriage was extremely positive for both of us. Then I goofed big time. I interpreted something as a fitness test when in fact it was genuine concern. I ended up owning the doghouse for a while.

The completely obvious take away is; just because one Game technique works once in one situation, doesn't mean it;s going to work every time in every situation.

An big change from dating to marriage is that when dating, a woman who doesn't put out is easily replaced by someone who will and there is little the woman can do about it. Competition Anxiety keeps her tingled and engaged.

This fear is not as motivating to a woman after marriage. Dump her for another, and she can sue to keep the house and his income, both of which she can use to entertain alphas.

If in a Christian marriage, how do you get the same effect of competition without the threat of an affair?

Young women do not care in the least if a man is married or Christian. When they see what they find attractive, they flirt, friend request on facebook, etc. A man should not hide this attention he gets from his wife*. We (our children included) even have some pet names for a couple of the women who have had obvious crushes on my husband.

*Her slight insecurity is normal and will fuel her attraction to her husband. Her going off in a jealous rage indicates some deeper issues.

You bust a move on her. She gave you the cold shoulder because your game sucks. You improve your game. You bust a move on her again. She now wants you in her. She never changed?

You changed your approach to game execution. That's a change YOU made, not her. She still views you through the same lenses and filter through which she sees every man, but by adjusting your game and your approach, you've caste yourself in a whole new form

If in a Christian marriage, how do you get the same effect of competition without the threat of an affair? It is quite tricky. I do not consider cheating to be a viable option. Either you're in or you're out. I do believe the woman in the example is setting herself up for a breakup and that explains it all.

You don't have to cheat on your wife, you just need to be seen as desirable to other women

1) Be "caught" flirting with another woman, preferably one your wife thinks is attractive. If your wife calls you out on flirting, deny it. Don't look guilty when you deny it.2) A woman (not related to you by blood) compliments your wife on you. "He is a good catch", "He is great with kids", "He works hard". This of course is a lot harder to control than #13) Devalue what your wife has to offer sexually. Don't ask for sex, don't compliment her, don't say I love you, and don't bite when she goes fishing for it. You can also, make innocent compliments about other women (use sparingly) " is really loosing that baby weight". Downplay special occasions (anniversary, bday, vday, etc). If she wants to pick a fight over your new found indifference shurg and say "I just don't want there to be pressure anymore"

4) Make yourself look better. Women hate screens (TV, video games, computers). Do all that crap when she isn't around. When she is around to see you, be exercising, working with your hands, or reading. Doing female chores doesn't make you look better, in fact if you are doing them stop. Its far and away better to pay a maid than it is to do it yourself. Getting up on a ladder and cleaning the gutters or getting under the car and changing the oil and other such masculine chores can make you more attractive however. So learning how to do such things is not a bad use of your time.

If both spouses are Christians then they should both know that any of us can/will succumb to sufficient sustained pressure. If either husband or wife leaves their spouse perpetually unattended, then they are not only going against the biblical instruction but they are making it almost inevitable that someone else will come along and do the job.

In our church a very staunch couple of over 20 years of marriage, with 3 children in their teens, broke up because of the husband's neglect of his wife's physical urges. (Not saying she was blameless, but he really was an idiot about sex, about romance, about any kind of affection.) She is now shacking up with an old, fat, sleaze, an obvious predator, who "befriended" her long before there were any open signs of strain in the marriage. Although horribly unattractive, the man knows a thing or two about women, especially how to identify those whose husbands presume that simply being Christian will prevent them from straying. It wont.

If competition anxiety is not present in the marriage, then somebody is lying to themselves about who they married. No christian, male or female, should ever make this mistake.

OT: Why do women reject and deny game including all that is red pill? I've got my wife pretty well pegged with a decent marriage, but whenever I read something from ANY of these blogo, she rejects it declaring she doesn't believe it's true (at least for most women). Ideas? Thoughts?

Also, can anyone point me to that wonderful evolution speech dude who ends up banging the chick comic?

If you sell your Yugo and buy a Ferrari, and get three speeding tickets in the next month, did you "change" into a speed demon? No, the faster car just unleashed a trait you already had. You didn't change.

Actually you probably became attractive to speed cops, whereas before you weren't. Used to have a candy apple red sports car. Cops would give me tickets sitting at red lights. A cop magnet.

You should always marry a young girl. They are more malleable and trainable. A woman should be trained using the same techniques used to train a puppy into proper behavior. For sexual access she must be taught the Bible and Christian teaching about the marriage debt, that it is not permissible to deny sex, and she is to always be ready.

Every woman who picks up an inmate online denies his badness is what tingles her. They'll exaggerate any good qualities he has as justified.

Think Twilight. Women almost unanimously state Edward's old time chivalry is what they like. But one can hardly imagine their fantasy being about one of their great grandpa's buddies. No, it was his dark nature and fear of him (her blood is like heroine to him, etc.).

A key to game is to give her both a tingle and a rationalization. This is much harder in marriage, since marital sex is perceivd as less dirty than extra-marital sex.

"OT: Why do women reject and deny game including all that is red pill? I've got my wife pretty well pegged with a decent marriage, but whenever I read something from ANY of these blogo, she rejects it declaring she doesn't believe it's true (at least for most women). Ideas? Thoughts?"

Men analyze. Women feel. We deal in unpleasant truth, they deal in pleasant feelings.

There are some things (like these blogs) that they just don't want - or need - to hear.

Why do women reject and deny game including all that is red pill? I've got my wife pretty well pegged with a decent marriage, but whenever I read something from ANY of these blogo, she rejects it declaring she doesn't believe it's true (at least for most women). Ideas? Thoughts?

You are wondering why something that allows you to "manipulate" women would be denied by a woman? Isn't that like asking Superman if he can confirm he is vulnerable to kryptonite?

You should always marry a young girl. They are more malleable and trainable

Women gravitate towards and align with the most influential person (counting government/churches/corporations as a persons for this) in her life. If you don't see a girlfriend aligning herself with your beliefs, you either aren't the most important person in her life or you lack the headship to marry her.

If a Christian wife doesn't know or otherwise hasn't been taught what the Bible actually says about marriage then she will not be as amenable to dread game, even the mild form practicable in marriage.

She should understand that having more than one wife is not a sin. It may not be wise but it is not a sin in and of itself. If she asks you point blank whether you want another wife, you say, "I don't know. Haven't really thought about it. Who knows what the future holds?" Smirk. Wink.

She should also understand what constitutes a Biblical divorce and her place in the process in God's eyes.

Tell her that the very definition of marriage is tied to conjugal rights. Basically, no sex means no marriage. Let the implications of that rev up her hamster.

Tell her to read the book of Esther and the book of Ruth.

As far as denying that you are flirting, never deny what a wife can see with her own eyes. You reframe instead. Reframe, reframe, reframe.

"Sounds like you want me to be all cold to that waitress/cashier/customer and make her feel bad."

or

"If you treat them well they don't spit in your food. So if you can keep from showing your claws she may not spit in yours."

or

"You're the one sitting in that seat, not her."

As to why you reframe, because it's actually none of her business. You're only flirting, you're not planning an adulterous tryst. The second you cede something like that is her business then you've already lost. Congratulations bitch boy, your wife has now become the moral authority in the marriage. Good luck digging out of that hole.

She either trusts you or she doesn't. The faster you figure out whether she does or does not trust you the better, obviously before you marry her. The more she complains about whatever flirting she imagines you doing the more likely she is to be truly unfaithful herself. Remember, everybody uses projection. Use it as the diagnosis tool it can be.

If she catches some woman making obvious indications of interest; after getting her to describe exactly what she thinks she saw you say, "Oh that? Yeah, I've seen that before. You really think she's interested? Yeah? Cool." Smirk. Wink.

Look at it as a long term project. Point out things you see in person and elsewhere that confirm the facts. My wife is slowly coming along. She started out not liking this at all, but is slowly adjusting her views. She still doesn't like it, but now openly admits much is accurate.

It's interesting how a woman's mind works: "he has to speak to a woman’s feminity", "He has to stop complaining", "A good start is the kind of wooing behavior", "compliments and flowers, hand-holding and general attentiveness". Proof they do not know how attraction works; it has nothing to do with what he does or doesn't do for her. It's who he is that matters.

He started reading Vox's columns at WND shortly after he started writing for them. When my husband went to basic training, I'd print Vox's columns along with several other of his favorites and send them to him. That was my first exposure to this "misogynist". There were a couple columns that I hesitated even printing thinking for sure my husband wouldn't want to read those. He read Vox Popoli daily. I tried but was not even close to tall enough for that ride. I couldn't understand half of what any post was about. Then he started telling me stories of what this Bane guy was saying. I'd ask, "who are these pigs, and why are you reading this crap?" I'd make snide remarks when he was on the computer, "Are you done reading the internet yet?" "What are your disgusting pig friends up to?" He told me he thought they were funny. I nearly flipped my lid when I went to Bane's site and saw his "Ass of the week" - I quickly verbally berated him. "What, is this the way you can get your porn in? Reading a blog that just happens to post this crap?" When Bane died, I'm ashamed to say I said, "At least you won't be reading his crap anymore!" He'd tell me to stfu, we'd fight, I'd cry, "I just don't understand why you are reading those sites." I didn't know about Roissy yet.

I put it out of my mind as best I could, I couldn't get him to stop but I wouldn't talk with him about what he was reading of these "disgusting pigs". After a deployment he came home different. Nothing I'd do would work anymore (by that, and in "game" terms, I couldn't get him to go back to his Delta self anymore. Usually I'd just needed to shame him enough to get him to relent, apologize, and kiss my ass. This time was different. I knew he just had to be messing around.) 6 months of hell followed his deployment until I finally relented. Got right with God and went to him and asked him what I could do to earn his trust again. Part of that was to read and get to understand what is being said at VP (Alpha Game didn't exist yet) - anti-feminist, Christian, libertarian message and realize I am wrong and need to change my thinking. I was told to read for six months and no matter how tempted I got, to not comment. I could talk with him about what I read but under no circumstances was I to challenge what was being said in a comment.

I see reflections of me in some of the commenters that happen along here who don't have someone forbidding them to make asses out of themselves and their own husbands.

Based on all the married, Christian women unhappy with their husbands who wanted to have sex with me, married women don't stop wanting sex. Just wanting it with their husbands. Married woman in the story is highly likely to be doing someone else. For the record, never went there. Wanted a woman I didnt share.

This is actually a good point, Whiskey. Reading Dalrock and Tomassi there seems to be this misconception coming from many men, that women just don't need sex, don't have the same libido as men. That's really not quite accurate. Women may appear to turn sex down a lot, but it's far more about instilling control than it is about what women actually feel or need or desire.

I still don't understand why married men spend so much time asking, or perhaps begging, rather? I imagine if you believed she doesn't need or want sex, than you would feel more as if you were asking for a one sided favor? There are some women that really do have medical/psychological issues, but beyond that women need sex nearly as much as men do.

I still don't understand why married men spend so much time asking, or perhaps begging, rather?

I don't think they are asking verbally, "will you have sex with me?" They make the move, touching her back, thigh, whatever while in bed. The way she moves lets him know "yes" or "no" - or she mumbles out the excuse of the evening. Try if you can to understand what this rejection does to a man. Now try to imagine the fear he has of asserting himself and having her say "get off of me!" Now go back and read what Beta Revolutionary said at 5:16AM, read it a few times. Though you might be an outlier and not married to the average, normal guy, try to understand this is a very large percentage of men.

Whenever women make these lists, its important to look through and find the examples where they live up to those standards. For example, the whole blurb about listening where the guy went max beta. Where is the story about where she went over to his apartment while he was at work cleaned it from top to bottom and then surprised him with his favorite lasagna that his mom used to make him, and slipping into a nice sexy dress with her curled hair let down or whatever he has in passing told her makes her look sexy as hell.

Where is the story about where she went over to his apartment while he was at work cleaned it from top to bottom and then surprised him with his favorite lasagna that his mom used to make him, and slipping into a nice sexy dress with her curled hair let down or whatever he has in passing told her makes her look sexy as hell.

You changed your approach to game execution. That's a change YOU made, not her. She still views you through the same lenses and filter through which she sees every man, but by adjusting your game and your approach, you've caste yourself in a whole new form

Why is this so difficult? What was the reason you changed your approach to game in that scenario? Its because she was not attracted to you.

So when you changed to improve your game:

Is she still not attracted to you? Yes? Then she did not change. Did she become attracted to you? Yes? Then she did change.

The lenses and filters got nothing to do with it. Something YOU DID made her change from being I don't want anything to do with you! to I wanna fuck you!.

I still don't understand why married men spend so much time asking, or perhaps begging, rather?

As I mentioned about training.... The wife should be told straight up that with the vows she is consenting to sex-on-demand. Further, that sex is the binding glue of the relationship and cannot be used or with held as a weapon.

Then the man has to man-up and hold her accountable. I told mine that when I say "now", I expect her to be looking for a flat spot.

Have never had these problems because I laid out the ground rules, even though she was in incipient feminist, with sex 8-10 times a week for over 30 years.

FYI - there's a lot on MMSL about the whole "pressuring" dynamic and how to get both parties back in the game so to speak. Don't know the link off hand, but when Athol explained it it made a lot of sense.