I had a vivid dream once, that it was announced that Shag would be redoing Disney's tomorrowland completely....

I woke up so happy, and then realized it was just a damn dream, and that we would be stuck with the jules vern crap for EVER!!!
If any of you personally know Shag, please tell him to make this a priority! Bid Disney!!

I believe Shag is the only one that can turn that land back into the space-pop paradise it once was!!!!

That would be a dream come true, but I heard that Shag and Disney had a parting of the ways after the release of the first two lines of merchandise from his Enchanted Tiki Room 40th Anniversary collection. Apparently that's why the other two lines never came out.

Someone's gotta! The Submarine Ride, the People Mover, Circle Vision, Carousel of Progress, all unused. They're supposed to be adding a new Buzz Lightyear ride (based on the one in Tokyo?), but 1/3 of Tomorrowland is unused! Hell, Jimmy Buffet could do better!
_________________Rev. Dr. Frederick J. Freelance, Ph.D., Th.D., D.F.S

About 3 hours ago I had a reply to this message all written and ready to send when my monitor started buzzing and crackling very loudly, then sparks shot out of one of the side vents for a good 5 seconds. It was like someone had put a sparkler in my monitor. The picture went to static, then died.

In almost 20 years of using computers I have never heard of or seen this happen. We were all stunned and the whole office started to stink with that toxic burnt circuit-board smell. So it seems that Hollywood has it right: When a computer or piece of electronic equipment dies, it really does buzz and crackle and spark - just like Star Trek!

Anyway, my monitor has been replaced and I'm back from seeing "Hero" (awesome!). I think Syd Mead would be a good choice, but he has done some attractions in Japan which I don't think would be very well understood here (too modern). Robert McCall has some reassuringly positive visions of the future that are slightly old-school and magically modern (floating cities, etc.)

Personally I've always been intrigued by Lebbeus Woods' stuff, but it would never work at D-land. Perhaps an attraction all its own, like the old Japanese Village. That would be surreal.

When Walt created Disneyland, Tomorrowland wasn't "retro". It was the future. No tongue-in-cheek homage to futures past.

It was gleaming white and beautiful.

They took a wrong turn recently, and went with a jules verne look. Bad move. They realized the mistake and repainted Space Mountain white! The color it should be.

Tomorrowland needs work, sure. They're shy a few rides.

But not tongue-in-cheek or retro. Tomorrowland is supposed to be an honest look at the future, to show children a glimpse of what their lives will be. How can you take a child to Disneyland and try and explain how the Tomorrowland they see is based on futures we used to believe in and hope for, but now have given up on?

Shag is great, I love him. But Encounter is one thing, and Tomorrowland is something else.

You want to see THE future? I don't want to see THE future as per the way things are going. I'm not gonna take this into some crazy political discussion but I'd rather see the future as per 1953. At least there was excitement and hope about the future back then.

What are we excited about now? The newest development in cell phone technology? Which next young talentless tramp is gonna be all over Mtv? Gas prices, over population, polution.... Dismal. Sorry about that.

I think a Shag tomorrowland could be pretty cool. I also know that Disneyland has a certain look that is carried through the whole park and a section of 'Shag' would stand out like a sore thumb. Cool idea though.

On 2004-08-30 08:50, Luckydesigns wrote:You want to see THE future? I don't want to see THE future as per the way things are going......At least there was excitement and hope about the future back then.

What are we excited about now? The newest development in cell phone technology? Which next young talentless tramp is gonna be all over Mtv? Gas prices, over population, polution.... Dismal. Sorry about that.

I think you hit the nail on the head here, LD. There was certainly more hope about the future in the mid 20th century, but people were far more ignorant of the technologies behind all the advances. Everything had a magical, modern sheen to it and everything seemd possible (or probable): Space travel, supersonic flight, moon-houses and flying cars. People are much more knowledgeable (or inundated) with technology and where it's headed because it's advertised incessantly. And like you say, a more realistic Tomorrowland would have to include the "Global Warming Theater", "Third World Oil Usage" bumper cars, and "Combating the Technological Terrorist" Pavillion. These aren't exactly subjects the general population wants to see explored.

Another problem is that modern technological advances are essentially invisible. More computing power, smaller processors, wireless everything - it seems the goal nowadays is to get everything out of sight. This trend doesn't make for very exciting amusement park attractions.

So what's left? Blind optimism in the face of stark reality, all for the the sake of style? If anyone can do THAT, it's Disney.
_________________

On 2004-08-27 16:32, Tiki-bot wrote:About 3 hours ago I had a reply to this message all written and ready to send when my monitor started buzzing and crackling very loudly, then sparks shot out of one of the side vents for a good 5 seconds. It was like someone had put a sparkler in my monitor. The picture went to static, then died.

In almost 20 years of using computers I have never heard of or seen this happen. We were all stunned and the whole office started to stink with that toxic burnt circuit-board smell.
[ This Message was edited by: tiki-bot on 2004-08-27 17:14 ]

Tiki-bot: one of my co-workers had this exact thing happen to him a couple weeks ago. Right after he turned on his computer, he noticed a burning smell, and there were actual flames coming from the top of his monitor! He was smart enough to unplug the computer immediately.
Needless to say, the computer/monitor upgrade in our office that had been mentioned for about a year now, finally happened after that!

As for the comment above about not drinking in Disneyland: you can drink beer and wine just across the way in the CA Adventure, and just outside the gates in Downtown Disney - I highly recommend the outside UVA bar which has a decent selection of rums and attentive bartenders. I wouldn't recommend getting soused before Space Mountain, but it does help to be less bothered by the crowds when you just sort of float along in a stupor.

I don't want to see THE future as per the way things are going......At least there was excitement and hope about the future back then.

I don't know, guys - personally I still choose optimism, even if it might be called blind. I can't stand dystopian future themes. No offense if other people like to focus on the negative, but personally I don't see the attraction.

Remember that in the 50s and 60s, the Cold War presented the prospect of total mutually assured destruction, something that people often overlook when looking back today and seeing the technology-driven optimism of the mid-century. Also remember that theme parks are about escapism! At least that's why I like them, and why I like tiki too for that matter. Nobody in the 50s was interested in visiting nuclear-winter-land, even though that was one of the stark realities of the day. I do agree though that people have probably gotten more sophisticated and skeptical about the future that is marketed to them, and that there actually may be a larger proportion of the population that somehow enjoys visions of a dark future. But I'm not in that group.

If you really look around, many of the mid-century futurist concepts have come to life! Picture phones, image walls (ie, flat panel TVs), instant worldwide communications, centralized and distributed in-home controls, GPS, and on and on. Even 25 years ago a lot of this would've been pure fantasy.

Regarding Shag and Tomorrowland, actually I wouldn't use the term retro for Shag. I think his style is more about a specific esthetic than about a specific time. My opinion is that he could develop some fantastic designs for Tomorrowland, not necessarily sticking to the style of his paintings, but just based on his esthetic and also his extensive "graphic vocabulary". But still, I'm not sure that he'd be the right person.

Someone like Frank Gehry could do a neat job. He seems like one of the best known modern architects with the ability to offer a modern, non-retro vision of the optimistic future. In fact, look at the convention center that Disney already had him design. But still, everything by Gehry looks just like Gehry, so there would probably be too much individual identity, as opposed to a broader future theme.

On 2004-08-30 13:18, dangergirl299 wrote:As for the comment above about not drinking in Disneyland: you can drink beer and wine just across the way in the CA Adventure, and just outside the gates in Downtown Disney