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MooMooFarm - Uh... Macross: Do You Remember Love (the movie) pulled it off in 1984, about twenty years before Gundam SEED showed up to have Mwu do the same thing. You may want to get your continuity right before claiming Show X was ripped off by Macross.

Besides, how does this differ from the fights in Gundam SEED Destiny or 00, where the recycling was even more blatant?

LOL I just realized this was an official opening after watching 19. The way the first scene links with the opening was nearly seamless and I thought it would be some kinda Ranka commercial or performance.

I agree, this animation and work completely dwarfs anything the guys did for the rest of the series, with perhaps the first few fights in the season where everything was new at the time before it was recycled 100x.

^__________^ This is a great duet. Hope to know name of song/find release soon!

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MooMooFarm - Uh... Macross: Do You Remember Love (the movie) pulled it off in 1984, about twenty years before Gundam SEED showed up to have Mwu do the same thing. You may want to get your continuity right before claiming Show X was ripped off by Macross.

Except Seed is the last generation's version. People's memories will remember the last generation easier than a generation from the dinosaur age. Seed also is pretty much accepted as the rip off of rip offs all plugged into a soap opera, so that was my intention in saying MF ripped off of Seed. Seed to me is an icon of all the soap opera elements in all drama/mecha series that pretty much got blended in like America with their ethnicities, just that instead of being white, you get being gundam. I make no claim gundam or sunrise did everything first. Seed is just the latest icon of the past due to it's massive selling power and is the closest to being recognized globally. Here's a crappy analogy.

I would not ever say to people in the chinese history section that HEY DUDE DON'T SAY LU BU IS THE STRONGEST SOME GUY IN BLAH BLAH BLAH beat him senseless in a ONE VEE ONE because most likely that person is not someone who will ever be known in history. Lu Bu is more of a icon or a symbol and any use of his name is to represent what he did or whatever the hell Dynasty Warriors presents him as LOLOL.

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Besides, how does this differ from the fights in Gundam SEED Destiny or 00, where the recycling was even more blatant?

Seed and Destiny were last generation, and at the time it was a given though complained about excessively. 00 on the other hand had like 2 times in 25 episodes or so where they recycled. Only twice. Do you really believe MF recycles less or as little as 00? Every significant fight scene of 00 had it's uniqueness, and while the fights weren't extraordinary, it was a huge step up from CE era. How they tried to implement mech FEATURES in some battles was the most important part, as none of these mecha series ever has the whole shonen "thought process" where Guy A counters Guy B thinking of something but Guy B turns out to have a hidden move up his sleeve. They don't want it shonen, so in order to make up for it, the ANIMATION and ACTION FIGHTS being displayed MUST be very very easy to see and very emphasizing on the mechs SPECIFIC abilities. Do you have any recognition of VF-25 between their 9-10 battles? The only time I thought anything was different was when Alto first piloted the damn thing, because he was stuck in ugly mode and his missiles somehow FAILED while in other episodes it just BLEW them away. 00 you can name quite a few scenes where it's like HEY cool. Even the opening fight with Patrick, Setsuna displayed how fluid (THOUGH SLOW LOL) his gundam's movements and his sword worked. Setsuna vs Sergei, Setsuna vs Ali, Graham vs Lockon, Hal/Al vs Soma/Sergei, each had their UNIQUENESS. It also helps each of their damn suits are DIFFERENT instead of being repainted and just given a different weapon.

How many people here without help of wikis and such can tell me within 25 seconds of thinking what the HELL the pikachu kid has for a special weapon? I know he has dumb radar disks and scanning crap, but seriously, a R and D guy does not belong in SMS.

I firmly believe Macross has enough material to rival Gundam and not be behind it's shadow (anyone who believes otherwise that Macross > Gundam in popularity might as well be on crack) it just either needs to tone down on it's spectacles and concentrate on what it can handle of the mech features, or get a huge budget and start figuring out how to implement every little detail of that gigantic plane transformer otherwise known as the missile spammer. VF-25 has the potential to be more complicated than any gundam, and yet no episode has made an attempt at giving it a significance. Macross's priorities don't even touch the mech itself, and that is worse than Gundam, which at least gives each suit a distinction on most important characters even if they too don't really try to do a good battle system. =] there's a reason why gaming > movies now as THE form of media, so it's no doubt that any form of media that has visual audio realize they can benefit from how games can captivate masses. Do you REALLY think Initial D would be as popular if they ran a soap opera that Macross does? It had crappy characters that make the square faces of MF look like superstars.

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This line, makes the rest of your wall of text moot.

So, you are someone who only loves credentials? Because as far as I know, most people who only can justify themselves after they've learned the majority of a subject to be known as average in thinking capability. What makes a sport prodigy? The fact that they worked hard all their life on that particular sport or the fact that their body can adjust so easily and learn that sport within a short amount of time? I stated that line in case stuff like corrections of facts are made, like the guy above who told me Macross made a movie that did a scene from GS. It's called being modest. If you are the type of person that followed Macross and has always loved their formula (SINGING TO SAVE THE UNIVERSE/FIGHTS WITH SONGS LIKE AN AMV/LOVE TRIANGLE) and don't ever want to see it IMPROVED, then SURE, what I say makes NO DIFFERENCE. But I'm pretty sure a significant portion of viewers in today's world complain because they want to see an EVOLUTION in production. It's not like I'm bashing Macross Frontier, seeing how it's one of THREE animes I deem worthy of watching instead of saying F it or LETS JUST READ MANGA.

As someone who does not know jack about the macross series, this is one of the few episodes that made me happy and the first to make me interested in the story of frontier.

The other were the first few with the initial dogfights before they became recycled trash.

And of course, the fighting STILL SUCKS at this point. It's like watching online game fights. Doesn't matter if I see Matrix Kung Fu or what not if I can't appreciate HOW difficult or HOW coordinated or HOW skillful you pilots are. Oh and they still just plug in RANDOM CANNON FODDERS with their UGLY FACES in just to be killed off.

Ermm "Red Shirt"...

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Originally Posted by MooMooFarm

It's like, with a track record like that, you might as well call SMS the Surviver Macross Squad and have the regular army called 1800-Free-Coffin-4-Me.

M25's Diamond squadron seems to be competent enough.

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Originally Posted by MooMooFarm

Might I add the previous episode or so where Ozma pulled a fake Mu and took the bullet for the Battle Frontier?

This is the (well, an) anniversary Macross. They are referencing and tying in all the various series. They've made more than one reference to Macross Zero.

Varja = Bird Humans

From there, let's say that Ranka has Bird Human DNA as part of her heritage like the people on the island in Macross Zero. Let's say the scientists on the research fleet were experimenting with a virus that they hoped could ADD Bird Human DNA to a human without that heritage. (only Bird-Human related humans can interact with and possibly control Bird Human/Varja technology)

Let's say further, as often happens in real life, no one would let the scientists move on to human testing with the virus, so Mao Nome injected herself. Whatever happened turned back her biological clock and wiped her memory... Sheryl Nome IS Mao Nome. Maybe the virus wipes anyone's memory, which would be a handy tie-in to explain Ranka and Brera's gaps. (or the events were seperate, the virus turned back the clock, but evil Grace has some way of wiping people's memory... or such a thing was accidentally discovered in the lab for the first time when it accidentally affected Sheryl/Mao?)

Or better yet... Mao didn't tell anyone she injected herself, ended up amnesia-ridden and therefore helpless and homeless. The amnesia at least explains the homelessness... and then Grace figured out what had happened and managed to track her down.

I'm not married to the Sheryl is Mao idea, but I thought it was an as-of-yet unconsidered possibility.

I kinda suspected that Grace wasn't poisoning her, but giving her something that would kill her by its absence. So maybe the problem is simply that her supply of Witchcraft has been cut off. We've given no indication it wouldn't keep her going for the forseeable future if she had more of it.

Hmm who do we know that has access to weird cutting-edge technologies who could help get Sheryl a new supply?

I kinda suspected that Grace wasn't poisoning her, but giving her something that would kill her by its absence. So maybe the problem is simply that her supply of Witchcraft has been cut off. We've given no indication it wouldn't keep her going for the forseeable future if she had more of it.

Hmm who do we know that has access to weird cutting-edge technologies who could help get Sheryl a new supply?

Mr. Bilrer. ^^

Sheryl was just fine before the travel to Gallia IV, so the side effects of the Witchcraft pills had never been in effect before. The most logical conclusion therefore is that Grace changed the medication with the keep the V-Type infection under control to a less benign one ( the Witchcraft pills ), so that Sheryl would collapse on Gallia IV.

aha. But didn't Michael notice that she wasn't taking the pills, which is how he got his hands on one of them?

Yeah, he noticed that she threw away the pill Grace was giving to her.

Now that you mention it, it surely is strange that Sheryl got on her legs almost immediately after she refused to take the Witchcraft pill.

So, to revise it all a little bit ( again ):

- The normal state of Sheryls V-Type infection is being fine, with occasional collapses and outbreaks of fever.
- The normal medication Sheryl has gotten from Grace has no side effects.
- The Witchcraft pills do have severe side effects, dizzyness, fever, etc.

Yeah, he noticed that she threw away the pill Grace was giving to her.

Now that you mention it, it surely is strange that Sheryl got on her legs almost immediately after she refused to take the Witchcraft pill.

So, to revise it all a little bit ( again ):

- The normal state of Sheryls V-Type infection is being fine, with occasional collapses and outbreaks of fever.
- The normal medication Sheryl has gotten from Grace has no side effects.
- The Witchcraft pills do have severe side effects, dizzyness, fever, etc.

Or the V-Type will kill her eventually in some other way that has nothing to do with the side effects of the medication suppressing it, (dizzyness,fever, etc), or its withdrawal. So she might go on fine without the medication right up to the point she drops dead/ turns into a bird human/whatever.

I'm guessing whatever keeps her from dying is also suppressing/limiting her fold-wave generating powers also.

Wow, what can I say. The plot was predictable as hell, as well as Sheryll character development which may be the reason it didn't carry much impact for me (except for Alto's so-called brother taking her to the Saotome estate, that was a nice twist), but other than that this episode was extremely impressive. To what seems to be my favorite OP of the series so far, to an excellent sound and visual animation, this episode is a sensory feast, to say the least. Too bad that it is accompanied by lousy script writing, but aw well, you can't win at everything. At least I'm liking the direction they are taking Ranka. Now let's see if they will be able to deliver.

The plot was predictable as hell, as well as Sheryll character development which may be the reason it didn't carry much impact for me

Tsk tsk tsk . Since she's one of the three main characters be sure to take in all important character development even if you don't prefer Sheryl. It's one of the specialties of this series, and character development is especially important for the future episodes.

I took it in, and it's not like I didn't like it, however the fact that I could predict this development from 4 or 5 episodes ago didn't make it all that exciting. I was just like: "yup, saw it coming". I am more interested into what will be her next move, which isn't all that obvious. Best case scenario a duet of her and Ranka will be the second coming of koi oboete imasu ka. In any case, that next move wasn't this episode, which is why I'm leaving my interest for her for later.