Andyr2120:cameroncrazy1984: Andyr2120: One is a hell of a lot more innovative than the PS3.75

Exactly how?

For starters, Kinect 2.0 makes a mockery of PS Eye in every way, and the combo of gesture and voice commands actually becomes useful for the first time in a consumer device. People say they don't want Kinect, but I am certain they will change their mind. In this area, it seems like Sony is only making minimal attempts to even compete.

Second, I honestly look forward to playing without the need of changing discs. Apparently, I still need to get off my ass and change the disc to play a PS4 game.

I also look forward to using my Xbox to access TV and movies. First game console with HDMI in, and there aren't even that many other devices (other than TVs, duh) that have that. Both consoles do a pretty good job of streaming video from various sources, but between the HDMI in, TV integration (also works with Netflix, Hulu, etc) and voice control the One is a good bit more advanced than the PS.

MS says they added 200,000 servers to their Xbox Live architecture. This may or may not be marketing noise, but they say they have enough computing power to give each One 3 to 4x its own CPU power in the cloud. Sony has nothing of the like, unless you count Gaikai. They aren't really the same thing.

PC gamers have laughed at console gamers for relying on their console as the "server" to host a multiplayer match. Xbox Live provides dedicated servers in Xbox Live now. And they won't be shut down ruthlessly like EA tends to do for their older games. You'll be able to continue playing.

An anonymous source (I know, grain of salt) who claims to be an Xbox engineer leaked info to NeoWin. Among other hopeful things, he claims that MS is moving to a Steam-styled model of software distribution where games are less expensive. Older games, especially. Who needs a used game from Gamestop for $20 when Steam sells the downloadable version for $3? It's a bold move. Oddly enough, it w ...

Carth:There have been some reports that microsoft is employing reputation management companies to go online and post postive things about xbox one. That is why people are quick to label anyone supporting it a shill

Certain keywords and similar phrases popping up are also kind of giveaways. I keep seeing a lot of different people saying 'innovation' and 'blown away' and 'taking gaming into the future/next generation/to the next level' and variants on those themes. When you see those same phrases pop up, it really gives credence to the 'reputation management' theory.

Andyr2120:For starters, Kinect 2.0 makes a mockery of PS Eye in every way, and the combo of gesture and voice commands actually becomes useful for the first time in a consumer device. People say they don't want Kinect, but I am certain they will change their mind. In this area, it seems like Sony is only making minimal attempts to even compete.

Voice control is an innovation now? it's been around for years. It's in the 360 right now. Where's the innovation there?

Andyr2120:I also look forward to using my Xbox to access TV and movies.

You can already do this.

Andyr2120:MS says they added 200,000 servers to their Xbox Live architecture. This may or may not be marketing noise, but they say they have enough computing power to give each One 3 to 4x its own CPU power in the cloud. Sony has nothing of the like, unless you count Gaikai. They aren't really the same thing

"More servers" isn't an innovation, neither is cloud computing.

Andyr2120:Second, I honestly look forward to playing without the need of changing discs. Apparently, I still need to get off my ass and change the disc to play a PS4 game.

You know your console is in trouble when the only person defending it is doing so by stating the attractiveness of its non gameplaying abilities.

I dont give two flying farks about how much more advanced the Kinect is to move. Both are garbage and neither is effective at what each system is at its core, a device designed to let a gamer play games effectively. Comparing the consoles based off THAT level of superficiality is like comparing 2 competing toaster ovens that come with nipple clamps. sure one brand may have a more comfortable, rubber coated plastic nipple clamp versus the others' hard edged metal clamps, but neither is what im looking for in my toast procurement needs.

The direction Microsoft is going with the Xbox isn't the future of gaming any more than Ow My Balls! is the future of television. It's a self-parodying caricature of marketing department masturbation of what the future of gaming should be. The only reason not to laugh at it outright is the hope that other consoles try to follow suit and the PC Master Race can regain utter dominance.

BMFPitt:I've very happy with my 360, and wouldn't even consider the idea of getting a PS3.

Right now I see no way the the XBox One is going to present a better value than the PS4.

Microsoft has been doing so well lately. I don't get the reason for suddenly going out of their way to alienate their customers.

I know! They've been doing so well lately! Like just in the last year they've released a phone and a new OS that everyone is really enthusiastic about! And woo, let's talk about their browser! The newest Internet Explorer, OBVIOUSLY winning the browser war! And Bing, so awesome. Man, they come up aces in every department, they're doing so well lately!

Even ignoring the always online, always on Kinect, and no used game problems (which shouldn't be ignored, but lets do it anyway), there is absolutely no reason to get an Xbox1. It has worse hardware than the PS4, and uses even less of that already inferior hardware towards processing games since the damn thing runs 3 operating systems simultaneously, plus its more expensive to boot. Being able to say "Xbox change the channel" instead of just using a remote isn't worth $50, let alone $500, yet that's essentially the one and only benefit you get from an Xbox1. That and if you realllllly like Halo for some unfathomable reason. Plus, Microsoft's approach to indie developers is way more restrictive than Sony's, you can't play imports while the PS4 is region free.... the list just goes on and on.

I have no idea how anyone at Microsoft thought "lets throw in the worst things people hate about consoles, make up brand new ideas that are equally loathsome, and package them together with technology that is worse than the competition's yet more expensive. People will want to buy it because.... Kinect."

No. No one cares about Kinect Microsoft. Its is the Bing of the console world.

JohnnyC:pxlboy: I think what people are getting to is that the new Kinect system has great potential to be abused. Many see it as an unnecessary intrusion and I don't blame them for not wanting something like that in their home.

I get that. I just think they're largely making mountains out of molehills. They're imagining the worst possible scenario and treating it like it is the intended purpose. Like they said, you can turn it off if you want, but you may not be able to play some games that require it unless you turn it back on. Some people don't want to hear 'sense' though... they just want to freak the fark out over something less intrusive to their privacy than their cellphone.

You can turn Kinect if off but your xbox won't function until you turn it back on. It is integrated at the OS level and needs to be connected to play any games or watch tv through xbox. That is what the last report i saw said if oyu have a link saying otherwise I"d love to see it.

MS would get so much less flak... if theyd just put a simple hardware shutter on the new kinect. Simple little piece of sliding plastic. I think its an amazing piece of technology, but i give it 3 years tops before it starts getting used by law enforcement in some cases.

Kahabut:Alonjar: Kahabut: Meanwhile, I'm over here with my computer, playing every good game in existence, on hardware I CONTROL, with software I OWN, with graphics FAR IN EXCESS of 1080p

Now im curious what resolution you're gaming at.

3 monitors, 1920x1280 each. EvE shows some crazy resolution numbers I don't have on hand. Granted, it's mostly horizontal. But at the same time, no console on earth can even RUN EvE (or for that matter most of the games I play these days)

Ironically, 10 years ago it was one monitor, with over 2500x2500. See what your 'HD' tv and gaming did to the display industry? It literally set it back more than 10 years, while making the displays physically smaller, and less detailed. (I know, it was really an agreement in the industry because the ongoing pixel war was killing the profits of the manufacturers, and also costing a lot for Hollywood to try and keep up with larger and larger display/details, Hence the massive "it's HD" hype, when in fact HD is light years behind what computers were doing 10 years ago)

Whew glad Sony is making sure that we don't have to worry to much about drm at all! Hold on I'm having a problem with the SONY BMG CD does anybody know how to uninstall a rootkit. Oh I also got some mail from a credit company notifying me that my credit card info got stolen? Oh well hey a Sony VP is having a press release clearing up some things about DRM on the console, sounds like they're going to leave DRM up to some company called EA, I like that idea.

/both consoles suck with DRM hopefully any new restrictions won't survive First Sale doctrine, or no one buys the new stuff.

Andyr2120:People say they don't want Kinect, but I am certain they will change their mind.

aaaand I stopped reading here. I know lots of people with xbox/kinect, including myself. I dont know a single person who actually keeps the thing plugged in. Its just too creepy, and honestly farking pointless. Flailing your arms around to give the TV commands is NOT more intuitive than pushing a button, sorry.

Also, anybody who has ever actually tried to game with kinect has realized that its clunky and has shiat for games. They've had quite awhile to release some good kinect titles... they all blow. Dancing and kids petting animals are the only two things anyone actually uses a kinect for.

I refuse to have an always on spy device watching me all the time. I physically disable the camera on my laptop and other devices as well.

The BS about about cloud computing as an excuse for required on-line sounds awfully similar to what we heard when Simcity launched. Turns out that was complete and utter bullshiat, it was just drm.

I honestly don't know if I'll get a PS4, but the chances of me getting an Xbone seem to shrink daily. I'd rather not buy a console that seems to be a middle finger towards me, while it's "advances" are either things that previous consoles had (media, kinect) or shiat that steam has had for 7+ years now (cloud services).

Honestly these threads entertain me mainly because of the fanboys (possibly shills) are desperately trying to deny the truth that Microsoft is choking on its own foot at the moment.

1. Using hand gestures to control a TV is stupid, as is voice command. A remote is faster and more intuitive.2. Always on, Always Watching, Always talking to the NSA courtesy of Prism. (Put a book in front of it)3. The Kinect needs a lot of real estate to work. Like a huge open room. I don't have that kind of space. Most gamers don't have that kind of space.4. Kinect games historically suck. Other then Dancing Han Solo, I have yet to see Kinect have a breakout game. It's a gadget. It really gives nothing to most games.

cameroncrazy1984:Andyr2120: One is a hell of a lot more innovative than the PS3.75

Exactly how?

For starters, Kinect 2.0 makes a mockery of PS Eye in every way, and the combo of gesture and voice commands actually becomes useful for the first time in a consumer device. People say they don't want Kinect, but I am certain they will change their mind. In this area, it seems like Sony is only making minimal attempts to even compete.

Second, I honestly look forward to playing without the need of changing discs. Apparently, I still need to get off my ass and change the disc to play a PS4 game.

I also look forward to using my Xbox to access TV and movies. First game console with HDMI in, and there aren't even that many other devices (other than TVs, duh) that have that. Both consoles do a pretty good job of streaming video from various sources, but between the HDMI in, TV integration (also works with Netflix, Hulu, etc) and voice control the One is a good bit more advanced than the PS.

MS says they added 200,000 servers to their Xbox Live architecture. This may or may not be marketing noise, but they say they have enough computing power to give each One 3 to 4x its own CPU power in the cloud. Sony has nothing of the like, unless you count Gaikai. They aren't really the same thing.

PC gamers have laughed at console gamers for relying on their console as the "server" to host a multiplayer match. Xbox Live provides dedicated servers in Xbox Live now. And they won't be shut down ruthlessly like EA tends to do for their older games. You'll be able to continue playing.

An anonymous source (I know, grain of salt) who claims to be an Xbox engineer leaked info to NeoWin. Among other hopeful things, he claims that MS is moving to a Steam-styled model of software distribution where games are less expensive. Older games, especially. Who needs a used game from Gamestop for $20 when Steam sells the downloadable version for $3? It's a bold move. Oddly enough, it was Sony who flirted with Steam, but it may be MS that makes it really work on consoles.

Anyway, look at the PS4. Better specs than the PS3. Added Gaikai streaming. What else? That's about it.

The question people need to be asking themselves... but first some facts.

MS loses money on almost every console, game and accessory for the Xbox since the start.

The CEO of MS was quoted as saying "We are going to put a computer in every living room in america". This was before the Xbox came out.

So, now that we know MS wants a computer in your living room SO BAD that they are willing to throw away billions of dollars to do it. And now they have added an always on, required camera, audio recorder and person tracking to the system.

Why the fark would you buy that and put it in your house? Do you really want the details of your life sold to advertisers? Because that is exactly what is happening.

anfrind:Carth: There have been some reports that microsoft is employing reputation management companies to go online and post postive things about xbox one. That is why people are quick to label anyone supporting it a shill

For what it's worth, none of the shills in this thread have an "Account Created" date new enough to be part of a reputation management campaign (the accounts are all at least a year old, some much older). Unless it's some kind of reputation management sleeper cell...

Actually that's exactly the kind of thing a reputation management firm will do: create an account, then save the account info in some file somewhere in case they need to make use of it later. As someone pointed out, quite a few of the more buzzword-ey accounts are ones which were registered years ago, but have very little historical activity until recent weeks.

Carth:anfrind: Carth: There have been some reports that microsoft is employing reputation management companies to go online and post postive things about xbox one. That is why people are quick to label anyone supporting it a shill

For what it's worth, none of the shills in this thread have an "Account Created" date new enough to be part of a reputation management campaign (the accounts are all at least a year old, some much older). Unless it's some kind of reputation management sleeper cell...

Yea, I don't think fark threads are popular enough to be worth their while anyway. I just wanted to give a link to explain why the word gets tossed around so much.

You say that, but its an open, dirty secret that Fark is used as a sort of news crib sheet for any morning radio show, local light entertainment program, or other such thing out there. Fark is literally a million-dollar business. We're not as obscure as you might think, and we're definitely not obscure enough for a management reputation firm to ignore us.

Satan's Girlfriend:taxandspend: I for one would love to know about these games from E3 that left you "utterly blown away" because everything I saw barely rose above the "meh" levels. Only two games that really rocked my socks was Bayonetta 2 and Tearaway.

You must have missed the part about television integration in Microsoft's X-Box One. You can now easily watch your Netflix videos on demand with a simple voice command. These are the kinds of innovative features that will make life so much easier. The games are just icing on the cake.

hmm if you're buying XBONE just to watch NetFlix hmm I really have nothing more to say...

anfrind:Carth: There have been some reports that microsoft is employing reputation management companies to go online and post postive things about xbox one. That is why people are quick to label anyone supporting it a shill

For what it's worth, none of the shills in this thread have an "Account Created" date new enough to be part of a reputation management campaign (the accounts are all at least a year old, some much older). Unless it's some kind of reputation management sleeper cell...

One of the biggest shills in this thread has an account created date of 2006, but only 15 posts in that time, several of which where done today. That is beyond odd.

JohnnyC:Cheater71: then you must have no life to spend so much time arguing on fark about something you supposedly don't care about one way or the other.

The dreaded, "you must have no life" strawman. He said he didn't care if you buy one or not. He said he just didn't like people repeating bullshiat and was trying to bring some facts to the conversation. I missed the part where he "shiat on PS4 and every gamer"... maybe you could be more specific?

Sure but I'd have to bring in comments hes made from earlier threads, and I'm not sure weather or not fark is cool with that. The no life comment comes from the fact that hes been doing this in every Xbox/PS4 thread for over a week now. If he doesn't care, why is he so active in these threads?

JohnnyC:BumpInTheNight: That's the key difference: I just don't think its impossible, but you seem to, that's all.

It isn't impossible, nor did I claim it was impossible, just not likely and certainly not the intended purpose. Strawman? Hmmm

BumpInTheNight: other then chowing popcorn in threads like these and watch as microsoft's arrogance and avarice triggers an implosion on yet another business line

Ahh... and here we finally get to the meat through all that fat. You're a Microsoft hater. So you're just confirming your biases and trolling for the lulz. Well... hope you enjoyed yourself.

When you wave your hand and say that something will never happen you're pretty much declaring you think its impossible, right? I'm more like a disappointed ex-microsoft customer, I really like win7 and windows has been my preferred desktop platform since win3.1, I like their efforts to bring gaming to the masses (xbox & xbox360) but since Balmer took control of the wheel the whole company has been in a tailspin and everything they do these days just reeks of "We're too big to fail so suck our dick and like it.", blind to the market forces moving in to devour the gaping holes they're leaving in their market shares on all fronts. The xbone is just the latest example of where they could have easily won the battle but went full retard instead, again. Sony's history does not entitle them to half the praise they seem to be garnering compared to being the alternative to what MS dragged on stage.

I guess you could say I'm a Balmer hater, he's driving a once great company into the ground, one business line at a time.

Elegy:Cheater71: JohnnyC: Carth: You can turn Kinect if off but your xbox won't function until you turn it back on. It is integrated at the OS level and needs to be connected to play any games or watch tv through xbox. That is what the last report i saw said if oyu have a link saying otherwise I"d love to see it.

See here. It's from Microsoft. Of course if you're like the next guy I'm replying to, it won't make a difference at all if you read that link because he thinks Microsoft is lying about what their system is doing...

BumpInTheNight: Right, because a microsoft press release is the most honest and trustable source of information about the underpinnings of their little box and what it will and won't do if MS was tasked or the box itself was exploited.

Okay... I think I understand. You're convinced that Microsoft is out to get you and this is just part of their nefarious plot. You're probably right... unplug everything, they are watching you.

Do really think mocking people is going to help your cause? You're not going to convince anyone to buy an Xboxone this way.

You keep saying that. Why do you think "our cause" is to convince you to buy an XB1? I could care less if you buy one or not.

I do like to call out odiously retards repeating obviously false talking points, however, so here I am...

Yet you shiat on PS4 and every gamer in here. Telling them why they shouldn't be upset about what Microsoft is doing. Seriously, if you have no vested interest in seeing Microsoft succeed, then you must have no life to spend so much time arguing on fark about something you supposedly don't care about one way or the other.

JohnnyC:Carth: You can turn Kinect if off but your xbox won't function until you turn it back on. It is integrated at the OS level and needs to be connected to play any games or watch tv through xbox. That is what the last report i saw said if oyu have a link saying otherwise I"d love to see it.

See here. It's from Microsoft. Of course if you're like the next guy I'm replying to, it won't make a difference at all if you read that link because he thinks Microsoft is lying about what their system is doing...

BumpInTheNight: Right, because a microsoft press release is the most honest and trustable source of information about the underpinnings of their little box and what it will and won't do if MS was tasked or the box itself was exploited.

Okay... I think I understand. You're convinced that Microsoft is out to get you and this is just part of their nefarious plot. You're probably right... unplug everything, they are watching you.

Do really think mocking people is going to help your cause? You're not going to convince anyone to buy an Xboxone this way.

JohnnyC:BumpInTheNight: Right, because a microsoft press release is the most honest and trustable source of information about the underpinnings of their little box and what it will and won't do if MS was tasked or the box itself was exploited.

Okay... I think I understand. You're convinced that Microsoft is out to get you and this is just part of their nefarious plot. You're probably right... unplug everything, they are watching you.

*sigh* I'm not the one that tried to suggest a computer with a camera and a microphone that's mandatory for its operations can't get exploited. All I'm saying is its not impossible, specifically because they left the controls for that in software land rather then hardware. Me personally? Nah I'm nobody, I'm not worried about some spooky plot would roll out to catch me picking my nose as I watch netflix but I'm not naive enough to rule out that if someone was determined to silently enable a mic or a cam on an xbone that an exploit could be written to do it. That's the key difference: I just don't think its impossible, but you seem to, that's all.

Either way the xbone is a woefully underpowered little box and I've no interest in them in the first place, other then chowing popcorn in threads like these and watch as microsoft's arrogance and avarice triggers an implosion on yet another business line. They don't have many left at this point.

JohnnyC:I couldn't actually find a number of sales in the first 24 hours on the PS4, just the X1. I just found articles that say that more PS4's had been preordered but no hard numbers on that. They both seem to be doing very well so far.

Probably because Sony doesn't have a need to reassure publishers that people are buying their system, at this point.

JohnnyC:BumpInTheNight: you really don't expect the partnerships in play to make a grab at access to live video feed from inside of a target's home if it was just sitting there with nothing but a flimsy home router between it and the internet? Really?

Yeah... really. How interesting do you think watching people sit on a couch and twiddle their thumbs would be? Not to mention that they would have to be sitting there playing the X1 at the time someone was trying to 'hack it'. Yes, there is a feature (which can be turned off) that keeps the mic open and listening for someone to give it the command to turn on and that's it. Perhaps you ought to read this or this before you comment on that kind of thing in the future. The whole arguing from a position of ignorance thing doesn't seem to be working out very well.

Right, because a microsoft press release is the most honest and trustable source of information about the underpinnings of their little box and what it will and won't do if MS was tasked or the box itself was exploited. I'm also not talking about passively slurping down 24/7 from every xbone all the time, I'm talking about specific requests and MS's admitted compliance (but you've got nothing to hide so why worry right?), or the proven concept that no platform is impervious to exploitation by black hats, its just a matter of the payoff for doing so. If they came out and said there was a hardware method of disabling the mic & cam then I'd have some faith, but software is just software and it can be updated at any time.

quiotu:You know I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet, but you think maybe people are interested in the PS4 more because, I dunno... it's the only console they can get? The Xbox One is initially only workable in 21 countries... half of Europe and all of Asia are NOT covered.

No, it's because those countries hate microsoft and want the xbox one to fail just because.

At least that what's the xboners are suggesting. Any complaint against the xo is just people 'hating'. Things like rational thought have no place in their artificially constructed world.

quiotu:Is 'I'm not buying their console' now the same as 'Microsoft will fail'?

This.

Much like any other fundy/zealot/extreme liberal/trolly alt/shill, he's not trying so much to argue against what people are actually saying(typically legitimate) but attempting to straw man an argument that he can knock down, thinking it will be an easy win.

Wanting microsoft to fail =\= predictions about failure =\= hesitant combination of the two

Xbox was the first console I ever really liked(though I owned others, primarily it was the controller).I really liked the 360 at first. Until NXE dashboard, the Xii avatars, and streaming commercials to me on my dime. I knew then I'd not re-up, it was an indication of the future. Sure enough "Windows 8" is more like NXE 2, and xbox 1 is an anti-consumer piece invasive and tyrannical hardware providing nothing new. It's a glorified set-top box that will brick if, not if, when internet has outages(even if they're not on my end), if I travel, if a storm comes, if they decide to ban me for saying a "dirty" word while online, etc.

What I'd like to see? Anon DDOS MS servers just after christmas, pull it off for 24 hours plus.

Another thing I find humorous, is that you know a ton of these are going to be bought by unaware consumers and there are going to be floods of returns. You think retailers are going to put up with that? fark no. MS will continue to take heat for selling something that so easily bricks(even if it's temporary), only they won't be able to tell wal-mart/bestbuy/costco to go shove it like they are consumers at the moment. Bad things are going to happen if they don't back down on call-backs before release.

JohnnyC:Cyno01: MS would get so much less flak... if theyd just put a simple hardware shutter on the new kinect. Simple little piece of sliding plastic. I think its an amazing piece of technology, but i give it 3 years tops before it starts getting used by law enforcement in some cases.

Paranoid prediction is paranoid. Luckily, nobody, including you, will remember your prediction in three years. Microsoft was going to get flak from Microsoft haters no matter what they did.

Now don't get me wrong I don't even own any tinfoil let alone enough to make a hat, but in this particular climate and specifically the events of last week playing out how they did, you really don't expect the partnerships in play to make a grab at access to live video feed from inside of a target's home if it was just sitting there with nothing but a flimsy home router between it and the internet? Really? and if not those kinds of entities going for it, every kinect is going to be an awful juicy target for lulz for every script kiddy from here to russia. Because hacking webcams attached to PC-like systems is hard, right?

Andyr2120:cameroncrazy1984: Andyr2120: That's great, but if you buy a PS4 game you will need to find it and put it in the tray to play it.

This has probably been covered already but uhh. No, no you don't. You can buy a PS4 game over the internet. No disc required.

Can you download and install a major release like the next Call of Duty on the day it comes out? if not, we are not talking about the same thing. Even the Wii can download some games.

By the way, you never tried to explain how the PS4 is more innovative than the Xbox One. Can I expect a clever response? If it were me, I'd go with the angle that changing nothing is better than breaking something. It's a false dichotomy, but that's cool -- this is the internet.

Yes, this is already available on the PS3. All PS3 games have a simultaneous release for the hard copy and the digital download. With PS+, they'll even occasionally give you a small discount, or bonus stuff for downloading it.

Elegy:Cheater71: quiotu: Elegy: What really gets me rolling on the floor in laughter is all of the MS hate.

When the first Xbox was released, it was going to fail miserably, because it was just low powered computer hardware and because Micro$oft.

When the 360 was released, it was going to fail miserably, because it was underpowered, didn't have a blueray player, and because Micro$soft.

Now that the XB1 is being released, it's going to fail miserably, because Micro$oft.

To turn a saying that is often used in these threads on its head, those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Is 'I'm not buying their console' now the same as 'Microsoft will fail'? What signifies failing? The last console that literally failed was the Dreamcast. Microsoft lost billions on the first Xbox... literally billions. It paled to their OS sales, so they didn't care.Microsoft doesn't fail often due to their 'throw money at the problem until it's moot' strategy.

Thats how you can tell this guy works for microsoft or a marketing company. He thinks laughing at the consumers is a good way to convince them to buy the Xboxone.

You're precious. Better watch out for that fluoridated water and those chemtrails, too.

Thats right, just keep mocking people. Thats a great way to get them to trust and listen to you.

MithrandirBooga:Dougie AXP: MithrandirBooga: I am going to enjoy all of the butthurt from PS4 owners when they buy the console and find that the publishers are simply going to make the same DRM requirements the XBox One will have, or when Sony changes its mind a few months down the line and mandates it.

Look we all know digital distribution and the mandatory DRM that goes along with it is the future. It's taken over PC games in the form of Steam/Origin/Gamefly/Amazon/etc. Arguably those services restrict you more than the XBox One will. And PC users love them.

Console users will embrace it eventually. They just need to have their whiny immature manchild temper tantrums first.

There's a difference though, Steam allows you to play games OFFLINE. With no requirement once the initial check is completed. That's fine with me.

The problem I have is the always on, always watching, always listening Kinect camera that I CANNOT DISCONNECT to be 100% sure that I'm not being watched/listened to.

Be honest. When was the last time you used a computer/console that wasn't attached to the internet at least once a day. I still haven't found a single person outside of the military who can admit to this. So really, the problem is... what, exactly?

Second: You can be 100% sure. You bet your ass people are going to have their Xboxes hooked up to routers that keep track of what data is sent back and forth. The first time *anyone* figures out that the Kinect is uploading anything it isn't supposed to, you bet your ass the entire internet will know in less than an hour

I am one of those people who doesn't have my PS3 connected to the internet. I currently can't afford internet in this area (my smartphone handles my basic online needs) and I like the fact that I can still play my games despite not having a constant connection. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who has been stuck with crappy internet that might go down for days on end randomly. It was never a common problem but when it did happen it was nice to still be able to use my gaming system to kill time until the problems were fixed.

quiotu:Elegy: What really gets me rolling on the floor in laughter is all of the MS hate.

When the first Xbox was released, it was going to fail miserably, because it was just low powered computer hardware and because Micro$oft.

When the 360 was released, it was going to fail miserably, because it was underpowered, didn't have a blueray player, and because Micro$soft.

Now that the XB1 is being released, it's going to fail miserably, because Micro$oft.

To turn a saying that is often used in these threads on its head, those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Is 'I'm not buying their console' now the same as 'Microsoft will fail'? What signifies failing? The last console that literally failed was the Dreamcast. Microsoft lost billions on the first Xbox... literally billions. It paled to their OS sales, so they didn't care.Microsoft doesn't fail often due to their 'throw money at the problem until it's moot' strategy.

Thats how you can tell this guy works for microsoft or a marketing company. He thinks laughing at the consumers is a good way to convince them to buy the Xboxone.

You know I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet, but you think maybe people are interested in the PS4 more because, I dunno... it's the only console they can get? The Xbox One is initially only workable in 21 countries... half of Europe and all of Asia are NOT covered.

pxlboy:kd8our: If I can't barrow a game off a friend, pop it in my drive and play... not interested. Sure, it's the same way with many PC games too, but it's gone too far. If it takes just as much effort to play it on the PC, then I will play it on the PC. Not even remotely interested this time.

/I don't need shiat to phone home either.//Steam is about it for me, anything more and I am bootlegging it. Even then some games I just play the patched version so I don't have to deal with random BS about discs and activations.

My games download from Steam faster than they do over the torrents...much faster. They have sales and all of my games are in one place (which can be convenient, like when I lost my HL2 discs).

and that's been my take as well, sure I can't sell my games but that isn't really one of my behaviors any ways, the sales allow me to pick the price point I want and the DL speed is blazin'. I have also not heard of steam arbitrarily knocking a few thousand users off their accounts because they so much as dared to mod some of the games they're playing either. Basically I trust steam, I do not trust Sony, Microsoft and no f'in way Origin. If Gamersgate would go back to 'paypal is optional' I'd continue bouncing purchases between them and Steam. GoGs is a great service as well for what it is, frankly a lot of the older titles while nostalgic just don't play right on modern displays.

Steam is just a great platform and the new greenlight feature has opened my eyes to many many indie projects and hearing they're taking a solid run at doing gaming on Linux this might be the final nail in the Windows is my desktop because of DirectX gaming. Neat stuff, win7 may actually be the last MS product I use.

Carth:MithrandirBooga: Dougie AXP: MithrandirBooga: I am going to enjoy all of the butthurt from PS4 owners when they buy the console and find that the publishers are simply going to make the same DRM requirements the XBox One will have, or when Sony changes its mind a few months down the line and mandates it.

Look we all know digital distribution and the mandatory DRM that goes along with it is the future. It's taken over PC games in the form of Steam/Origin/Gamefly/Amazon/etc. Arguably those services restrict you more than the XBox One will. And PC users love them.

Console users will embrace it eventually. They just need to have their whiny immature manchild temper tantrums first.

There's a difference though, Steam allows you to play games OFFLINE. With no requirement once the initial check is completed. That's fine with me.

The problem I have is the always on, always watching, always listening Kinect camera that I CANNOT DISCONNECT to be 100% sure that I'm not being watched/listened to.

Be honest. When was the last time you used a computer/console that wasn't attached to the internet at least once a day. I still haven't found a single person outside of the military who can admit to this. So really, the problem is... what, exactly?

Second: You can be 100% sure. You bet your ass people are going to have their Xboxes hooked up to routers that keep track of what data is sent back and forth. The first time *anyone* figures out that the Kinect is uploading anything it isn't supposed to, you bet your ass the entire internet will know in less than an hour

Every winter. People in NE frequently lose power for 3-5 days it is why everyone has generators. Parts Vermont lost power for weeks last year. Why shouldn't I be able to play single player video games off a generator when the internet is down?

Chiming in on that point. I work offshore in the Gulf of Mexico and our PS3 gets connected MAYBE once every three months.

Elegy:What really gets me rolling on the floor in laughter is all of the MS hate.

When the first Xbox was released, it was going to fail miserably, because it was just low powered computer hardware and because Micro$oft.

When the 360 was released, it was going to fail miserably, because it was underpowered, didn't have a blueray player, and because Micro$soft.

Now that the XB1 is being released, it's going to fail miserably, because Micro$oft.

To turn a saying that is often used in these threads on its head, those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Is 'I'm not buying their console' now the same as 'Microsoft will fail'? What signifies failing? The last console that literally failed was the Dreamcast. Microsoft lost billions on the first Xbox... literally billions. It paled to their OS sales, so they didn't care.Microsoft doesn't fail often due to their 'throw money at the problem until it's moot' strategy.

EkimProx:People don't understand that you're never going to get amazing deals like you get on Steam without DRM. Beats the holy hell out of trading in The Last of Us for $30 tomorrow at GameStop so they'll sell it for $54. You want cheap games? You want to buy used games? If you have DRM then you can download them in the future for a fraction of the cost.

Keep earning that check, shill. You really think anyone's going to suddenly think, gee hes right, i should love the 24 check in that prevents me from using the Xboxone one in certain areas of the country?

EngineerAU:And yet somehow the PS4 and XB1 have spent the better part of the week flip flopping between the #1 and #2 spots on Amazon's sales chart for video games. It's almost as if they're going after the general public instead of a niche of self important hardcore gamers. They'll be much happier with a thousand customers that buy ten games and ten who buy a hundred games.

/Obviously scale those numbers into millions

Amazon is doing no money down preorders. I preorded 3 of each: If either is popular I'll pay for it and sell it on Craigslist around Christmas for a markup. If I can't sell it, Amazon offers free returns and I"m not out anything.

The Kinect sounds incredibly interesting. I know it's always on, and I honestly don't care. I like the possibilities that the camera/voice interaction can bring. I like the novelty of being able to control my entertainment system with a gesture. It seems fun, intuitive, and would be something I could share with friends.

I also remember Xbox requiring broadband for their service, back when only like 1 in 5 households even had broadband. They were looking for a console that would cater to the new customers that were on the way. Microsoft has the capital to sustain a money losing prospect for long enough to turn a huge profit on it, so I figure most of you folks who are so pissed right now will end up buying one, eventually.

I also like a dozen of 15(?) exclusives. For a gaming system, PS4 doesn't seem to care to give you special exclusive games. If Xbox One was somehow jipping the gamers to offer the extra features, why do they have so much money invested in exclusive, highly desirable games?A massive cloud to support the gaming system is attractive to me too. Microsoft is pumping a ton of cash into this, they're putting in the work, I think they're likely to continue to improve the system. Xbox One will serve me as a gaming platform just fine.

My main concern, I suppose, is the Red Ring of Death incident. They really farked up that hole deal. I was personally burned on this one issue 3 times, although the fourth one they've sent me works fine, and all in all It didn't cos tme any money other than weeks of waiting for the mail.I hope they don't repeat this. It's not like Sony, having installed viruses onto my computer not too long ago, is all peaches and cream in my book either.

If Xbox doesn't offer at least a 1 year warranty on the system, as a default, I will reconsider my choice.

I'll also buy a PS4, when they get some exclusives that I want.

And the crazy thing is, I'm a PC gamer. :)

What does tick me off is the responses from Microsoft. They sure do know how to be dickish in their PR.

MithrandirBooga:Dougie AXP: MithrandirBooga: I am going to enjoy all of the butthurt from PS4 owners when they buy the console and find that the publishers are simply going to make the same DRM requirements the XBox One will have, or when Sony changes its mind a few months down the line and mandates it.

Look we all know digital distribution and the mandatory DRM that goes along with it is the future. It's taken over PC games in the form of Steam/Origin/Gamefly/Amazon/etc. Arguably those services restrict you more than the XBox One will. And PC users love them.

Console users will embrace it eventually. They just need to have their whiny immature manchild temper tantrums first.

There's a difference though, Steam allows you to play games OFFLINE. With no requirement once the initial check is completed. That's fine with me.

The problem I have is the always on, always watching, always listening Kinect camera that I CANNOT DISCONNECT to be 100% sure that I'm not being watched/listened to.

Be honest. When was the last time you used a computer/console that wasn't attached to the internet at least once a day. I still haven't found a single person outside of the military who can admit to this. So really, the problem is... what, exactly?

Second: You can be 100% sure. You bet your ass people are going to have their Xboxes hooked up to routers that keep track of what data is sent back and forth. The first time *anyone* figures out that the Kinect is uploading anything it isn't supposed to, you bet your ass the entire internet will know in less than an hour

Ok, you want me to be honest? Does last week work for you? Internet service was out for 3 days.

In fact right now, my wireless service is out.

Another example, Tropical Storm Sandy did a particularly nasty number on the telelphone/cable lines here (the cable lines around here aren't buried. They are strung from poles). Power was restored in two days. Internet? two weeks.

And I live in a fairly populous state with access to a lot of creature comforts given I live in the mountain area of my state. The only thing we don't have is Fios. We got 4G LTE this winter. Doesn't mean jackshiat though.

You were saying?

Oh and you saying that people will have routers monitoring the data sent back and forth from the XB1, well we shouldn't have TO DO THAT IN THE FIRST DAMN PLACE.

We wouldn't know that the NSA was basically downloading the entire internet had someone not blown the whistle, I don't want a camera in my house pointed at me unless I'm filming a sex tape.

MithrandirBooga:Dougie AXP: MithrandirBooga: I am going to enjoy all of the butthurt from PS4 owners when they buy the console and find that the publishers are simply going to make the same DRM requirements the XBox One will have, or when Sony changes its mind a few months down the line and mandates it.

Look we all know digital distribution and the mandatory DRM that goes along with it is the future. It's taken over PC games in the form of Steam/Origin/Gamefly/Amazon/etc. Arguably those services restrict you more than the XBox One will. And PC users love them.

Console users will embrace it eventually. They just need to have their whiny immature manchild temper tantrums first.

There's a difference though, Steam allows you to play games OFFLINE. With no requirement once the initial check is completed. That's fine with me.

The problem I have is the always on, always watching, always listening Kinect camera that I CANNOT DISCONNECT to be 100% sure that I'm not being watched/listened to.

Be honest. When was the last time you used a computer/console that wasn't attached to the internet at least once a day. I still haven't found a single person outside of the military who can admit to this. So really, the problem is... what, exactly?

Second: You can be 100% sure. You bet your ass people are going to have their Xboxes hooked up to routers that keep track of what data is sent back and forth. The first time *anyone* figures out that the Kinect is uploading anything it isn't supposed to, you bet your ass the entire internet will know in less than an hour

Every winter. People in NE frequently lose power for 3-5 days it is why everyone has generators. Parts Vermont lost power for weeks last year. Why shouldn't I be able to play single player video games off a generator when the internet is down?

Kahabut:Alonjar: Kahabut: Meanwhile, I'm over here with my computer, playing every good game in existence, on hardware I CONTROL, with software I OWN, with graphics FAR IN EXCESS of 1080p

Now im curious what resolution you're gaming at.

3 monitors, 1920x1280 each. EvE shows some crazy resolution numbers I don't have on hand. Granted, it's mostly horizontal. But at the same time, no console on earth can even RUN EvE (or for that matter most of the games I play these days)

Ironically, 10 years ago it was one monitor, with over 2500x2500. See what your 'HD' tv and gaming did to the display industry? It literally set it back more than 10 years, while making the displays physically smaller, and less detailed. (I know, it was really an agreement in the industry because the ongoing pixel war was killing the profits of the manufacturers, and also costing a lot for Hollywood to try and keep up with larger and larger display/details, Hence the massive "it's HD" hype, when in fact HD is light years behind what computers were doing 10 years ago)

4k TVs will be the best thing to happen to video games in awhile. When console players expect at least 3840 × 2160 it will be a nice change. Even better when 8k starts to filter in.

Andyr2120:cameroncrazy1984: Andyr2120: One is a hell of a lot more innovative than the PS3.75

Exactly how?

For starters, Kinect 2.0 makes a mockery of PS Eye in every way, and the combo of gesture and voice commands actually becomes useful for the first time in a consumer device. People say they don't want Kinect, but I am certain they will change their mind. In this area, it seems like Sony is only making minimal attempts to even compete.

I'm sorry, but you sound like a goddamn Microsoft shill; because no gamers (casual or hardcore) is gonna buy that line of BS.

Kahabut:Ironically, 10 years ago it was one monitor, with over 2500x2500.

Yo, wtf monitor did that? I know of the 2650x1600s but never a genuine square resolution CRT...on this topic you see the 2650x1080s that are showing up? Saw one in the flesh at a PC shop the other day and it just caught me off guard how wide the damn things are, figure triple of those would be hilarious but its really bridging into 2x3 land at that point and meh might as well wait for the 4Ks to start showing up and just use some 30" versions of them instead.

We already have direct evidence that Microsoft is actively paying people to post pro-bone stuff on the web. Rumors suggest lots of low-post-count people all over the web being very very very pro-ryse, which looked like the lamest game.

Satan's Girlfriend:You must have missed the part about television integration in Microsoft's X-Box One. You can now easily watch your Netflix videos on demand with a simple voice command. These are the kinds of innovative features that will make life so much easier. The games are just icing on the cake.

Holy shiat!!! I can watch Netflix with a simple push of a button without paying $60 to Microsoft!

MithrandirBooga:I am going to enjoy all of the butthurt from PS4 owners when they buy the console and find that the publishers are simply going to make the same DRM requirements the XBox One will have, or when Sony changes its mind a few months down the line and mandates it.

Look we all know digital distribution and the mandatory DRM that goes along with it is the future. It's taken over PC games in the form of Steam/Origin/Gamefly/Amazon/etc. Arguably those services restrict you more than the XBox One will. And PC users love them.

Console users will embrace it eventually. They just need to have their whiny immature manchild temper tantrums first.

There's a difference though, Steam allows you to play games OFFLINE. With no requirement once the initial check is completed. That's fine with me.

The problem I have is the always on, always watching, always listening Kinect camera that I CANNOT DISCONNECT to be 100% sure that I'm not being watched/listened to.

The used game/digital distribution, check in once a day shiat, ip region locking is just twisting the knife, pouring salt in the wound and then wrapping it in a rubbing alcohol bandage.

I mean, this is Fark and all, but if the crux of your response to someones points is that they must be paid shills, you have lost the argument. The closes thing I know unequivocally to being a shill is Paul Thurrott and he gave a pretty scathing critique (with what MS should do) in his column.

My response was in reply to the use of buzzwords not normally used in conversation and trying to paint a turd gold and sell it as a troy ounce.

I mean, this is Fark and all, but if the crux of your response to someones points is that they must be paid shills, you have lost the argument. The closes thing I know unequivocally to being a shill is Paul Thurrott and he gave a pretty scathing critique (with what MS should do) in his column.

I mean, this is Fark and all, but if the crux of your response to someones points is that they must be paid shills, you have lost the argument. The closes thing I know unequivocally to being a shill is Paul Thurrott and he gave a pretty scathing critique (with what MS should do) in his column.

I am going to enjoy all of the butthurt from PS4 owners when they buy the console and find that the publishers are simply going to make the same DRM requirements the XBox One will have, or when Sony changes its mind a few months down the line and mandates it.

Look we all know digital distribution and the mandatory DRM that goes along with it is the future. It's taken over PC games in the form of Steam/Origin/Gamefly/Amazon/etc. Arguably those services restrict you more than the XBox One will. And PC users love them.

Console users will embrace it eventually. They just need to have their whiny immature manchild temper tantrums first.

The whole thing turns gaming, as it has always been, on its head. I've been a serious gamer since 1986, and would rather go back to playing PS2 games forever than to play along with this new model of doing business.

I'll admit that the games XBone showed at E3 were quite impressive, and I'll also admit that they'll probably win in the end (because people are farking idiots). STILL, under absolutely NO circumstances, will I go along with this and get an XBone. As far as I'm concerned, it killed real gaming.

igorknowsall:Last game console I owned was a Super Nintendo with over 200 games. One day I just went ... meh... put it down and haven't played a game since. Life just became so much more interesting once I started doing more physical things to entertain myself. Ya know ...like girls and all that.

It's okay to strike a balance between both, you know. There's no requirement to do nothing but play video games.

People don't understand that you're never going to get amazing deals like you get on Steam without DRM. Beats the holy hell out of trading in The Last of Us for $30 tomorrow at GameStop so they'll sell it for $54. You want cheap games? You want to buy used games? If you have DRM then you can download them in the future for a fraction of the cost.

Last game console I owned was a Super Nintendo with over 200 games. One day I just went ... meh... put it down and haven't played a game since. Life just became so much more interesting once I started doing more physical things to entertain myself. Ya know ...like girls and all that.

Andyr2120:MS says they added 200,000 servers to their Xbox Live architecture. This may or may not be marketing noise, but they say they have enough computing power to give each One 3 to 4x its own CPU power in the cloud. Sony has nothing of the like, unless you count Gaikai. They aren't really the same thing.

I'll believe in the cloud computing claim when I see it actually happen, and not a moment before. Sim City made that claim too-

I'm sorry, the US bandwidth speeds are not, in ANY WAY, fast enough or dependable/widespread enough to make that something that can actually, viably, usefully be done, I do not thing.

Voice control is an innovation now? it's been around for years. It's in the 360 right now. Where's the innovation there?

Yes, actually this is one of their biggest innovations.

It's not in the fact that it's voice command but that it's extremely advanced voice control. It learns your voice and will only take commands from the voices it was told to listen to. It can also tell when you're looking at it so it knows when you are talking to it and not someone else. It can also isolate your voice out of a noisy room filled with other people, music and other noise in real time and play back just your voice and nothing else.

Despite getting jumped on for saying this a previous last thread, I'll say it again: the direction MS is going with the XB1 makes a certain amount of sense.

Profit margins on the consoles themselves are pretty low. Steam has proven that gamers don't necessarily care about single use licenses, but developers do, perhaps providing more incentive for developer exclusives to the XB1. Also, XBL has steadily been improving over the past few years, and the XBLA ecosystem has been attracting smaller developers that are producing some fantastic games in the $20 or less range, most of them exclusives.

Out bluntly, if MS loses customers buying the consoles, but increases the amount each customer buys online, it's an increase in profit for them given tha profit margins on the consoles (low) to digital content (very high).

Every indication that we have from MS is that they will continue to expand their online offerings on XBL, and that they see this as the future of the console business, moreso than big box exclusives and brick-and-mortar retail. Hence the always on requirement.

On another note, if you do have an XBL account, Fable 3 is free this weekend and the Worms games are on sale. I highly recommend Worms: Revolution, it has provided me hours of entertainment and was well worth the purchase when I paid full price for it.

Well here is the latest copy of this thread.Now I hate the required check in but where have people gotten the idea that if your x-box fails to check in the system will not return to normal functioning after an internet connection is restored? Does anyone have a citation to that or is it just exaggeration that has become "truth". I'll probably end up with both eventually unless XBone goes the way of the Dreamcast.

/MS is going in the direction gaming seems irrevocably headed towards. We may not like it but we may not be able to stop the slide towards digital and licenses. It's what the developers want in their heart of hearts (Saying so may not be the best public relations at the moment) Hopefully MS will compromise with a potential alternate check on a disc and as long as you have the disc in the drive it will work.../in 2002 broadband was in 12% of US homes... but Microsoft built a service that required it anyway.