Welcome. Had a few of you fellas tag along with us on an Op once or twice - had the best time watching one of yours eat a dehydrated potato once.

May 28th, 2004

peiper

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnderSafe

Had a few of you fellas tag along with us on an Op once or twice - had the best time watching one of yours eat a dehydrated potato once.

Where was this Op? Also, I couldn't understand the humor behind eating a dehydrated potato (is it sth like a potato chip?), probably due to my lack of knowledge and poor command of English. Would you be kind enough to explain what a dehydrated potato is and what is so funny about watching a guy eating it?

Best Regards,

--

May 28th, 2004

Italian Guy

We have a saying in Italy, to make fun of someone who smokes a lot:

"You smoke as much as a Turkish does ", or " To smoke like the Turkish ".
I guess it dates back to the Ottoman Empire, you know narghilé and stuff like that.

May 28th, 2004

RnderSafe

Quote:

Originally Posted by peiper

Where was this Op? Also, I couldn't understand the humor behind eating a dehydrated potato (is it sth like a potato chip?), probably due to my lack of knowledge and poor command of English. Would you be kind enough to explain what a dehydrated potato is and what is so funny about watching a guy eating it?

Topic: Nice, real nice

There can be no Turkish officer without English as his or her second language as it is mandatory to study it all through military scools and academies. This includes NCOs.

My best bet would be that you had a master corporal or sergeant. These guys are regular citizens who comlete their mandatory service as regular corporals or sergeants and decide to stay in the army. The sergeant here is different from the master sergeant class. FYI, he has to have either one or two stripes on the arm in color red to distinguish him from the low rank NCO master sergeant. It is common for them to have poor or no foreign language speaking.

You could also have a Korucu (Local guard) who are simply Kurdish tribesman enlisted under contract to perform scouting duties.

OR you probably took along a kurdish terrorist to assist you in whatever you were doing out there.

I do refrain from going into the pig issue at this stage.

Best Regards

May 28th, 2004

RnderSafe

Topic: Re: Nice, real nice

Quote:

Originally Posted by peiper

A good story, but that's as good as it gets, just a ficitonal story.

Fictional? No. Desert Shield joint Turkish-US SF Team.

Quote:

You could also have a Korucu (Local guard) who are simply Kurdish tribesman enlisted under contract to perform scouting duties.

OR you probably took along a kurdish terrorist to assist you in whatever you were doing out there.

I do refrain from going into the pig issue at this stage.

I'm not one to take sides with the Turk vs Kurd issue, but I suggest you watch how you brandish about the term "terrorist", especially when associated with the US military. I've worked with both, and each of you have your "terroistic" moments. We're constantly having to slap you lads on the wrist and send you back home when you wander your little teams into N. Iraq and vice versa with the Kurds.

May 28th, 2004

peiper

Topic: Re: Nice, real nice

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnderSafe

Fictional? No. Desert Shield joint Turkish-US SF Team.

Quote:

Ficitonal has nothing to do with lies or alterations. I use the term when there is any point that is far from being true and/or correct. In this matter, there can be no Turkish officer w/o knowledge of English and that, in my book, is fictional. Also, I never wrote anything offensive against you like "Dumb big American soldier". How did you get to that conclusion?

I'm not one to take sides with the Turk vs Kurd issue, but I suggest you watch how you brandish about the term "terrorist", especially when associated with the US military.

I appreciate you being neutral on the issue, but with your kind permission and being a member of a nation that has lost 30,000 lives of both ethnic origins, I have my own right in coming up with that phrase and I do not care about anyone's association.

[/quote]
I 've worked with both, and each of you have your "terroistic" moments.[/quote]

I have made no generalisations about race or ethnicity. IMHO, anybody holding on to and using a weapon illegaly is a terrorist. Regardless of his ethnic origin, religious belief or the military he is associated with. I see no justification. "Kurdish terrorist" was written because there are no Turkish terrorists in that area. If there are, you can be sure that I'd be more as glad to get them in my scope vision as I would for anyone else.

[/quote]
We're constantly having to slap you lads on the wrist and send you back home when you wander your little teams into N. Iraq and vice versa with the Kurds.[/quote]

You carry on slapping the wrists because we approach the issue on a different basis. Allies is what we think about the US military. Ever heard about the incident northwest of Rawandoz? Check the report of the incident involving "your associates" and two "American journalists". You may be surprised to see who was the member of the "little team" that interfered to provide security.

Best Regards,

PS= Thanks for your offer. I'd love to see the photos of the incident, should you decide it is worth sending it to me.

May 28th, 2004

RnderSafe

Topic: Re: Nice, real nice

Quote:

Originally Posted by peiper

Ficitonal has nothing to do with lies or alterations. I use the term when there is any point that is far from being true and/or correct. In this matter, there can be no Turkish officer w/o knowledge of English and that, in my book, is fictional. Also, I never wrote anything offensive against you like "Dumb big American soldier". How did you get to that conclusion?

So, is it fictional, a lie or merely an alternation? You should decide. Your English is well enough that you cannot use a lack of knowledge as an out. What are you talking about?

It seems as if you took offense to the fact that you had a field grade officer that had little working knowledge of the English language. You will have to get over that. It will not change the facts of the story, nor will in change the story itself. Or are you perhaps upset that we allowed him to eat the dehydrated potato to our amusement? I assure you, he didn't mind and we worked quite well for there rest of the operation. If you felt I was insulting Turkish SF, you're quite wrong. My first experience was with a major while attending SFQC, it was very professional and positive .. my latter experiences have been the same.

Quote:

I appreciate you being neutral on the issue, but with your kind permission and being a member of a nation that has lost 30,000 lives of both ethnic origins, I have my own right in coming up with that phrase and I do not care about anyone's association.

Your attitude in this respect is not representative of the many Turkish soldiers I have worked with. Your attempt at associating me with terrorists backfired, and now you're pulling the "woe is us" card. Very well, next time, watch your wording. As far as I know, while strained due to big headed government officials (on both sides), the US and Turkey still have a working relationship.

Quote:

I have made no generalisations about race or ethnicity. IMHO, anybody holding on to and using a weapon illegaly is a terrorist. Regardless of his ethnic origin, religious belief or the military he is associated with. I see no justification. "Kurdish terrorist" was written because there are no Turkish terrorists in that area. If there are, you can be sure that I'd be more as glad to get them in my scope vision as I would for anyone else.

I'm sure next time I am in N. Iraq I will rest easy knowing this bit of information. No one said you made a generalsation about race or ethnicity, you did however make a broad scoped remark about Kurds being terrorists.

Quote:

You carry on slapping the wrists because we approach the issue on a different basis. Allies is what we think about the US military. Ever heard about the incident northwest of Rawandoz? Check the report of the incident involving "your associates" and two "American journalists". You may be surprised to see who was the member of the "little team" that interfered to provide security.

Approaching the issue differently doesn't mean you cannot be wrong in your behaviour, and you have been at times, just as the Kurds.

Quote:

PS= Thanks for your offer. I'd love to see the photos of the incident, should you decide it is worth sending it to me.

PM me some information, and we'll see about sending photos.

May 28th, 2004

peiper

Topic: Re: Nice, real nice

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnderSafe

So, is it fictional, a lie or merely an alternation? You should decide. Your English is well enough that you cannot use a lack of knowledge as an out. What are you talking about?

We are going in circles here. This is an incident that you had and I can not just sit here judging your reliability, which I don't. That little detail is what I ousted and this is an alteration in my book. This is what I'm talking about. Rest is upto you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnderSafe

It seems as if you took offense to the fact that you had a field grade officer that had little working knowledge of the English language. You will have to get over that. It will not change the facts of the story, nor will in change the story itself. Or are you perhaps upset that we allowed him to eat the dehydrated potato to our amusement? I assure you, he didn't mind and we worked quite well for there rest of the operation. If you felt I was insulting Turkish SF, you're quite wrong. My first experience was with a major while attending SFQC, it was very professional and positive .. my latter experiences have been the same.

No I did not take any offense and nowhere in my previous posts did I mention you mistreating him. I know very well that the conditions out there are not the same as those at home, yours or mine. If there is an incident and it amuses both sides, then that's good for all of you. I never expressed that I thought you insulted our SF. It was an incident and I put my reserve on your remark of "Non-English speaking Turkish officer". Very little practice of the language is sth else. Just drop it ass it has nothing to do w/ validation.

Quote:

Your attitude in this respect is not representative of the many Turkish soldiers I have worked with. Your attempt at associating me with terrorists backfired, and now you're pulling the "woe is us" card. Very well, next time, watch your wording. As far as I know, while strained due to big headed government officials (on both sides), the US and Turkey still have a working relationship.

It is amazing how you comprehend everything in accordance w/ your desires. Who you work with is your own problem and I am not associating you with anybody. I am not pulling any cards as I just wanted to give you how I feel about the losses. Keep your pity stored away for people who need it and I do have the habit of watching my wording, oral or written, in case you have not noticed.

I agree on the working relationship and your comments about the officials. Bureaucrats and politicians have a long way to go understanding necessities and rules of cooperation of nations. If only they could be humble once to consult the men out there.

Quote:

I'm sure next time I am in N. Iraq I will rest easy knowing this bit of information. No one said you made a generalsation about race or ethnicity, you did however make a broad scoped remark about Kurds being terrorists.

ANYBODY who is not part of a legal force and using a gun is a terrorist. Whether he is out there or in Istanbul makes no difference. Cut and dry.

Quote:

Approaching the issue differently doesn't mean you cannot be wrong in your behaviour, and you have been at times, just as the Kurds.

The different approach, as you call it, was merely a statement of difference in mentality between you and me. Wrong behaviour? I have a ton of examples for you for both sides. No accusations written at all for any side. There is no point in blaming any side or digging into the issue. I do not want to spend the rest of my life discussing the origins of the chicken and the egg.