Quote: 1- I dont think WTF sparring is a good training for learning to kick .Its a sport.It trains you to kick when the other person can not punch you in the face,try to take you down,try to tie you up or try to low kick you.

2 - When a person can do all these things ,and more, kicking dynamics and tactics change especialy if the other person is good at being multi-dimensional and a violent loon.

When it comes to # 1 above, I think it is a great way to develop certain aspects of kicking. How the students progress & ability to utilize these in SD I would also think depends on the rest of their training.

Point #2 above is right. But it works both ways. Since they can't punch to the head or use any other hand attacks but a punch to the chest, they develop very nicely certain aspects of kicking. Of course it can lead to weak areas with regard to the use of the hands. But one must be fair, it works both ways. It may be a negative with the no use of hands, but that can also be a positive, as it helps develop the speed, footwork & power, as that is their primary method of scoring.

With the right guidance, anyone's strong areas can be beneficial in assisting with SD. JMHO

Quote:[I have been in dojangs that said things like "Oh, you do the communist patterns", I'm thinking, how can a pattern be communist ?

Yes I have both experienced & heard of like instances. Its actually sad when you think about it. These patterns were the 1st Korean forms & they were developed in SK, by military heroes. These pioneers also not only spread TKD around the world, but also introduced countless numbers of people to Korean culture. They are owed a debt of gratitude & certainly don't deserve to be dishonored like this.

Quote:[I have been in dojangs that said things like "Oh, you do the communist patterns", I'm thinking, how can a pattern be communist ?

Yes I have both experienced & heard of like instances. Its actually sad when you think about it. These patterns were the 1st Korean forms & they were developed in SK, by military heroes. These pioneers also not only spread TKD around the world, but also introduced countless numbers of people to Korean culture. They are owed a debt of gratitude & certainly don't deserve to be dishonored like this.

To call them communist patterns is rediculous. TKD wasn't even introduced to NK until 25 years after it was named. How many communist countries practice Kukki TKD? Remember, ITF TKD is being taught in SK again and maybe someday Kukki TKD will be in NK. No country owns TKD.

Quote:[I have been in dojangs that said things like "Oh, you do the communist patterns", I'm thinking, how can a pattern be communist ?

Yes I have both experienced & heard of like instances. Its actually sad when you think about it. These patterns were the 1st Korean forms & they were developed in SK, by military heroes. These pioneers also not only spread TKD around the world, but also introduced countless numbers of people to Korean culture. They are owed a debt of gratitude & certainly don't deserve to be dishonored like this.

To call them communist patterns is rediculous. TKD wasn't even introduced to NK until 25 years after it was named. How many communist countries practice Kukki TKD? Remember, ITF TKD is being taught in SK again and maybe someday Kukki TKD will be in NK. No country owns TKD.

Thats right & after the WTF & KKW introduced their TKD to communist countries, how come they were not labeled as such?

The problem that alot of south Koreans have is that the two Countries are still at war. How hard is it to end a war? They are both Koreans devided by Ideology. This does not mean they have to continue fighting. Germany was divided after WW2 and now are back as one. So can Korea.

Quote:The problem that alot of south Koreans have is that the two Countries are still at war. How hard is it to end a war? They are both Koreans devided by Ideology. This does not mean they have to continue fighting. Germany was divided after WW2 and now are back as one. So can Korea.

Well Germany is a much different story. There was much more exchanges between the 2 & E Germany was no where near as isolated as NK. EG economy, although much weaker is no than WG's, the disparity is no where near that of the Koreas, where SK is in the top dozen & NK does not even register on the world scale. The reunification of Germany came at a high price, one that is still being paid today. many have learned the lesson from that & are now taking careful steps to bridge the gap to minimize an even more difficult situation with respect to Korea. Vietnam was reunited by war. Ireland is still divided for 700+ years, with an end still decades away.

Quote:Wasn't there a form that used to be part of the ITF curriculum that was called Juche?

Yes & there still is. It replaced pattern KoDang, who was named after a Cho Min Sik, who was a patriot born in what was the north, when Korea was 1. He was a main rival of Kim Il Sung & has been missing for decades, presumed killed by the Soviet Red Army.

This change was finalized by around 1983. Juche is a Tul designed mainly by master Park Jung Tae. It has a sanitized pattern defintion. However, anyone that is familiar with the term Juche realizes it is the philospohical idea that NK is self suffiecent. A policy that has led to severe hardship for the people in the north. It is everywhere in their society. It was suppossed to be the idea of Kim Il Sung, but ironically enough, the main architect, defected & I believe is now living comfortably in SK.

The ITF had a very plausible explanation why it was placed in the syllabus. Detractors say it was a sell out to NK to get them to support the ITF. To me, it was clearly something that the ITF & Ambassador Choi had to do to get the ITF the much needed support to survive against the machine of SK, KKW, KTA & WTF. To some the ends never justifies the means. To me it is clear is did accomplish its end. I make no claim as to whether it was justified.

I am keeping up I just dont agree about certain things thats all.I take a different view.It is so simple.Train and spar exactly as you will fight or deal with the physical aspects of an assault and you dont have to have all these parts and aspects.

I dont agree its a nice tool for kicking.Its for kicking in those set rules.I get the impression Your trying to say its a tool for kicking in a SD or NHB fight and I dont agree.Its why WTF people get jip for trying to give it more worth than it has.If your not saying that Iv missunderstood and I agree its a sport and if people enjoy it and understand that,its great.

The repetitive aspects of training have got to have a specific purpose though.Repetitivly doing something for an olympic spar is no good for and assualt or NHB fight.You have to repetitivly do something you will use for an assualt or NHB fight.

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