Boehner to Obama: There will be no unconditional Republican surrender

posted at 8:41 pm on October 8, 2013 by Allahpundit

Indeed not. The surrender, when it comes, will definitely be conditional. At least enough so that Boehner can claim some sort of fig-leaf “victory.”

His point here is simple: Contra O’s demands earlier this afternoon, the House isn’t going to pass a clean CR or a clean debt-ceiling hike — not even short ones, which Obama hinted today might be enough to bring him to the bargaining table. But wait — if the (new) goal of the shutdown is to get O to negotiate and he’s now publicly agreeing to negotiate once the shutdown’s over, doesn’t that mean it’s in the GOP’s interest for the shutdown to end? Well, no, not if you think (a) that Obama’s unlikely to agree to anything meaningful without some fiscal pain to force him to and (b) that he’ll cave sooner or later and start talking to the GOP even if the shutdown’s still in effect. That’s clearly what Boehner thinks, and his candor in saying so is an amusing counter-taunt to O daring him yesterday to bring a clean CR to the House floor for a vote.

President Obama and I sat down in 2011 and had a serious negotiation.

And while the president today suggested that I walked away from the deal, I would have to remind him that I was in the Oval Office along with the majority leader, Eric Cantor, when we in fact had an agreement that two days later the president walked away from.

But there was, in fact, another negotiation in 2011 that resulted in, really, the largest deficit reduction bill that we’ve seen here in the last 30 years. But in 2010, when Democrats controlled the Congress and President Obama was in the White House, what happened was, a group of moderate Democrats in the House wouldn’t agree to raise the debt limit without a negotiation.

So there was a negotiation then amongst Democrats over raising the debt ceiling.

The long and short of it is, there is going to be a negotiation here.

You’ll cave, buddy, and we both know it. Is that, plus the point at the end of the clip below about unconditional surrender, just Boehner talking tough or does he really believe it? On the one hand, Noam Scheiber’s right that Boehner’s been known to talk a good game before folding: “The reality is that Boehner understands perfectly well that a default would be catastrophic. But because of enormous pressure from his Tea Party wing, Boehner always has to appear to be completely unrelenting up until the very last minute, at which point he relents. If the Treasury Secretary says we will default on October 17, then Boehner has to sound positively Churchillian right up until the evening of October 16, at which point he will finally break it to his troops that they have exhausted all their options.” On the other hand, his colleague at TNR, Nate Cohn, is also right that the polls on this shutdown look better for the GOP than they did during the 1995 shutdown that scared Republicans away from this tactic for nearly 20 years:

The share of voters blaming Republicans exclusively is well beneath 50 percent, suggesting that today’s persuadable voters—the key voters on the road to 50 percent—are angry at both parties. Other questions show broad dissatisfaction with both parties. A majority of voters say they disapprove of Obama’s performance on the budget; a majority of voters even say they’re “angry” with President Obama, as well as congressional Democrats.

That’s not what the polls found in the 1995-1996 shutdown, when nearly half of voters consistently put the blame on the House Republicans. And although President Clinton’s approval rating might have slipped during the shutdown, his approval ratings held near 50 percent—unlike President Obama.

That’s one of the reasons O decided to hold a presser in the first place today, of course. Public disapproval of congressional Republicans is higher than it is for him or congressional Democrats, but the “blame” question is more ambivalent than the White House would like. And Boehner knows it, which may be why he’s more inclined this time than in the past to push his luck with a default.

Nah, who are we kidding? He’ll fold. Exit question: If the new plan to pressure Boehner is to get the Senate to pass a clean debt-ceiling hike first, what will the effect on him be if/when Reid can’t get to 60 votes to make it happen? And even worse, what happens if he can’t get to 60 because some Senate Democrats are voting with the GOP?

And while the president today suggested that I walked away from the deal, I would have to remind him that I was in the Oval Office along with the majority leader, Eric Cantor, when we in fact had an agreement that two days later the president walked away from.

So, Barky lies – again – and the Weeping Boner continues to sit with him and “talk”, anyway. How many times does this have to happen before the GOP leadership realizes that Barky doesn’t do anything in good faith, at all? There is nothing to ever sit and talk to such a dishonest scumbag about. You can only present what you want and leave it at that.

This is nothing new, of course. Barky has been a lying SackOS since he first slimed into office and has never carried out any negotiation in good faith. Dealing with Barky is even worse than dealing with arabs, who have no concept of goodwill and can always be counted on to violate any contracts they sign. To continue to treat such people as if they are normal, reasonable Westerners (which they are not, Barky especially) is to make a mockery of sense and reason.

The Weeping Boner had better hold strong to, at least, the pathetic defunding/delay of BarkyCare – and he had better move that stance forward to more permanent destruction of BarkyCare in the debt limit issue. If he gives in, in any way, on this … then it is truly all over for the GOP. Now, this is not to say that I would cast a vote for the GOP, anyway. I won’t. 2012 and the re-election of the Weeping Boner was the end for me, but if the GOP wants to hold onto the part of the base that is not quite as disgusted with them as I am …

Shut er down!If we don’t stop these Communists now we bankrupt soon any way! Let’s either fix the spending now or go down trying! I don’t think the country can survive 3 more years of Obama and unbridled Obamacare!
The sooner in..the sooner out of this mess!

I’m curious to see how many participate. Independent owner/operators struggle to make a go of it nowadays, due to fuel costs, regulation, etc. I don’t know how many of them can afford to delay or refuse a run to do this. And the company drivers could get canned for participating. I’d love to see it be huge, but I wonder.

The House needs to pass a short-term debt ceiling increase, pronto. If they don’t it’s because the GOP establishment, all the RINO’s that have been attacking Cruz and Lee since the beginning, are going to sabotage their plan and instead seek a grand (losing) bargain that does little more than hypothetically reduce the rate of increase in spending that will never materialize.

“The reality is that Boehner understands perfectly well that a default would be catastrophic.

This is yet another lie the Dems and the media are putting out. The only way there’s a default is if we can’t pay the interest on the debt, and currently Washington collects far more than the monthly interest payments. If the debt ceiling isn’t raised, what it means is that the government can’t borrow more money and simply has to cut down expenditures across the board or in specific areas, just like the rest of us, if we’ve maxed out our credit availability. Which means, we still pay the interest on our debt and the absolutely necessary expenses, but with less funds available, we just have to cut out a lot of discretionary spending on dinners out, on vacays, on buying a new car or Iphone, on the house remodeling plans, etc.

This is exactly where the Rs need to lay down the gauntlet, forget the CR crap, since the average person out there, including the LIVs, can wrap their minds around that concept. No need to crater on this at all, and particularly not to believe the bullshit being sold by the Dems, the Media (oh, I repeat myself), and the limp-wristed RINOs.

Stick to the Cruz/Lee strategy and pass a short term credit limit increase. Don’t let the RINO’s whove been attacking Cruz/Lee sabotage their plan. The Democrats are up a creek without a paddle, please help us stop the GOP establishment from providing them with one.

Dealing with Barky is even worse than dealing with arabs, who have no concept of goodwill and can always be counted on to violate any contracts they sign.
ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 8, 2013 at 8:52 PM

a date which will live in infamy – the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Liberal Party.

The DNC, therefore, undertaken a surprise offensive extending throughout the Gov.t ShutDown area. The facts of yesterday speak for themselves. The people of the United States have already formed their opinions and well understand the implications to the very life and safety of our nation.

As Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy, I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense of Government ShutDown Tactics.

Always will we remember the character of the onslaught against us. No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory.

I believe I interpret the will of the ShutDown Talks and of the Patriots when I assert that we will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost but will make very certain that this form of treachery Government ShutDown Counter-Threats shall never endanger us again in our economy.

Hostilities exist. There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory and our Threat of Government ShutDown are in grave danger.Make Damn Sure Your voices are heard.

With confidence in our armed forces – with the unbounded determination of our people – we will gain the inevitable triumph – so help us God.

I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack by the DNC on Sunday, December seventh, a state of war has existed between the United States and the Democrat Party.—-(Snark)

The fact Obama can have a press conference as starkly surreal as the one today and Republicans say nothing about normalizes the insanity. This is why we keep slipping further and further into Looking Glass World. Isn’t there one Republican who can go out there and call out the outrage and madness of such spectacles?

I read an article the other day, written by a progressive seated securely in a progressive university,that posited that it might be time to do away with congress.

There was much made of the ‘gridlock’ of congress and congresses ‘failure to reach bipartisan accord’ on proposed legislation.

There was no mention of the fact that congressmembers are elected as PROXY for the constituents who elected them to office to serve them in that capacity.

There was a great deal of effort and attention dedicated to how difficult this failure of the congress to swiftly reach bipartisan accord on proposed legislation was making for this administration to ‘lead’.

The notion that congress is obsolete in today’s society was implicit.

Perhaps I’m not the only one who took notice of his obscure article. Perhaps the congress doesn’t care to be made obsolete and has decided to act and reign in an overreaching executive branch… while they still can.

It’s primarily the ruling class who’ve been claiming that the tea party refuses to raise the debt ceiling. That was certainly true back in ’11 but not this time. I want to stop Obamacare and am not the least bit interested in any more fake spending cuts like Boehner “won” back in ’11. The ruling class wants to negotiate a grand bargain, which will short-circuit the Cruz/Lee strategy and allow them to save Obamacare. Don’t let them.

I’m curious to see how many participate. Independent owner/operators struggle to make a go of it nowadays, due to fuel costs, regulation, etc. I don’t know how many of them can afford to delay or refuse a run to do this. And the company drivers could get canned for participating. I’d love to see it be huge, but I wonder.

predator on October 8, 2013 at 9:02 PM

Seriously, it wouldn’t take much to lock up most of it during rush-hour.

Okay, this article falsely implies that failure to raise the debt limit automagically results in default. IT does not. Please stop printing this nonsense.

paulsur on October 8, 2013 at 9:16 PM

+1! It’s the big-lie that the ruling class uses to fool the American people into supporting government profligacy and runaway debt and deficits. It’s a favorite tool of government cronies and other generational thieves robbing the American people blind, particularly the young and unborn.

Even the FAR left rag, The Guardian, recognises this ‘I will negotiate with those holding a gun to the head of the American people provided that they give me everything I want and STFU’ strategy isn’t going to work.

This is especially true when the majority of Americans do not even want the debt ceiling raised and when those that would raise it only with strings attached, you get an overwhelming majority of the populace.

(Reuters) – President Barack Obama refused to give ground in a fiscal confrontation with Republicans on Tuesday, saying he would negotiate on budget issues only if they agree to re-open the federal government and raise the debt limit with no conditions.

At a news conference, an unbending Obama said he would not hold talks on ways to end the fiscal impasse while under threat from conservative Republicans, but agreed to discuss anything, including his healthcare plan, if they restore government funding and raise the debt limit.

“If reasonable Republicans want to talk about these things again, I’m ready to head up to the Hill and try,” Obama told reporters.

“But I’m not gonna do it until the more extreme parts of the Republican Party stop forcing (House Speaker) John Boehner to issue threats about our economy. We can’t make extortion routine as part of our democracy.”

Obama’s comments followed an earlier phone call to Boehner, who had adopted a slightly more conciliatory tone in comments to reporters after a meeting with House of Representatives’ Republicans.

Boehner had said there were “no boundaries” in potential talks, and made no mention of recent Republican demands to delay parts of Obama’s healthcare law in return for approving funds to end the government shutdown.

But speaking to reporters after Obama’s news conference, Boehner said he was “disappointed” by the president’s approach.

“What the president said today was ‘if there is unconditional surrender by Republicans, he’ll sit down and talk to us.’ That’s not the way our government works,” Boehner said.

The public give-and-take between Obama and Boehner was the most direct exchange between the two leaders since a White House meeting last week, but neither side has come up with a path to resolving the bitter fiscal stalemate.

The spending and budget impasse has shut down the federal government for eight days and threatens to prevent the raising of the country’s $16.7 trillion borrowing limit before an October 17 deadline identified by Treasury Secretary Jack Lew.

Investors are exhibiting increasing anxiety as the deadline for raising the debt ceiling approaches.

Interest rates on one-month U.S. government debt hit a 5-year peak on Tuesday and the Standard & Poor’s 500 stock index closed down 1.23 percent.

“Until you see some progress, things will likely get worse,” said Eric Green, global head of rates, currency and commodity research and strategy at TD Securities in New York.

On Tuesday, House Republicans proposed the creation of a bipartisan committee to work on the issue, which was rejected by Democrats. Senate Democrats also introduced a bill to raise the debt ceiling with no conditions through 2014, but included none of the deficit reductions that Republicans have demanded.

House Republicans emerged from a morning meeting saying they would insist on deficit-reduction talks with Obama as a condition for raising the federal debt limit, but some signaled they might pass short-term legislation to avert a default in exchange for immediate talks.

“If we have a negotiation and a framework set up, we can probably reach a way to raise the debt ceiling while the negotiation is in progress. But nobody is going to raise it before there is a negotiation,” Republican Representative Tom Cole of Oklahoma said.

‘A RECESSION OR WORSE’

The impasse sparked a rising tide of warnings about the potential global economic chaos of a U.S. default, with foreign creditors and the International Monetary Fund’s chief economist warning of the potential consequences.

“I think what could be said is if there was a problem lifting the debt ceiling, it could well be that what is now a recovery would turn into a recession or even worse,” IMF chief economist Olivier Blanchard said.

Japan’s finance minister said a failure by the United States to quickly resolve its political deadlock over government finances could damage the global economy.

“The U.S. must avoid a situation where it cannot pay (for its debt) and its triple-A ranking plunges all of a sudden,” Japanese Finance Minister Taro Aso told reporters after a cabinet meeting.

“The U.S. must be fully aware that if that happens, the U.S. would fall into fiscal crisis,” he said in the latest sign that Japan and China, the biggest foreign creditors to the United States, are worried the impasse could harm their trillions of dollars of investments in U.S. Treasury bonds.

Obama said he did not think the crisis would create lasting international damage, saying “folks around the world will attribute this to the usual messy process of American democracy.”

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, a traditional supporter of pro-business Republicans, also warned about further delays in reopening the federal government and raising the debt limit.

“The debt ceiling specifically must pass on a timely basis to avoid inflicting substantial and enduring damage on the U.S. economy,” said Bruce Josten, the group’s executive vice president.

Polls show growing public concern over the impasse, with Republicans getting slightly more of the blame.

A Reuters/Ipsos poll on Tuesday found the percentage of Americans concerned about the shutdown rose to 75 percent from 66 percent last week. Blame for Republicans grew to 30 percent from 26 percent, with the level of blame for Obama and Democrats at 19 percent, up from 18 percent.

Plenty of obstacles remain to settling the issue. In the Senate, Democrats introduced a bill on Tuesday to raise the government’s borrowing authority by enough to last through 2014.

A Democratic aide said they were hopeful they could get the 60 votes needed to overcome procedural hurdles in the 100-member Senate and pass the debt ceiling bill with no strings attached, even though the measure includes no deficit reduction.

But Republican Senator John McCain, who some Democrats had hoped might support getting the “clean” debt ceiling bill to a vote, declined to back it when asked by reporters. “The answer to this is negotiations,” said McCain from Arizona.

In the House, Republican leaders unveiled a proposal for a 20-member committee to make recommendations on a debt limit increase and look at ways to rein in the country’s deficits, but Democrats quickly rejected the idea.

Under the legislation, the Republican House would name 10 members to the panel while the Democratic-led Senate would name the other 10. The panel would also make recommendations on a measure to fund the government for the 2014 fiscal year, ending the shutdown.

The plan is reminiscent of a failed 2011 “supercommittee” of Republicans and Democrats from the House and Senate that was asked to find trillions of new budget savings.

The White House said Obama would veto a bill for the new deficit-reduction panel if it reached his desk as it did nothing to solve the immediate obligation for Congress to open the government and pay its bills.

The special committee measure passed the House in a 224-197 vote on Tuesday evening with the support of just two Democrats and opposed by five Republicans. It seemed unlikely to be taken up in the Senate.

Despite widespread warnings about failing to raise the debt limit, some House Republicans dismissed the prospect of a first-ever default.

“There’s no way to default. There is enough money coming into the Treasury to pay interest and roll over principal,” said Representative Justin Amash of Michigan, a favorite of the smaller-government Tea Party wing of the Republican Party.

Asked about warnings of catastrophic consequences if the debt limit is not increased, Amash told reporters: “I say it’s patently not true what they are saying.”
================================

We all know the game will probably go on through the weekend then some sprinkles on it and we’ll get to eat the crap sammich all over again.

Hello $20 trillion debt.

Then, hello $23 trillion, $26 trillion, $30 trillion, $35 trillion, and we’ll get all the drama games over and over again.

Obama wants a crisis because he holds all the cards to make the gop squeal. But I tell you what this isn’t 1995. And the pressure on DEMOCRATS to their offices on this and Amnesty coming up are going to be like NOTHING THEY HAVE EVER SEEN.

POUND THEM into the political sand. Twitter, facebook, emails, phone calls to their offices.

Go out and read some of the comments on these politicians facebook pages, people are pissssssssssssssssssed. Read some of the comments on the local news sites when they post something about the politician.

It’s brutal.

And this ObamaCare PR Debacle is really disenchanting the “free” crowd that voted for him thinking they were going to get free healthcare, etc.

The fact Obama can have a press conference as starkly surreal as the one today and Republicans say nothing about normalizes the insanity. This is why we keep slipping further and further into Looking Glass World.

“The reality is that Boehner understands perfectly well that a default would be catastrophic.”

WILL. PEOPLE. STOP. BUYING. THIS. MEME.

THERE. WILL. BE. *NO*. DEFAULT.

FOR. F*CKS. SAKE.

Midas on October 8, 2013 at 9:31 PM

But polls show that the vast majority of people don’t want to raise the credit limit, not at all, so the ruling class has to try to scare them into supporting raising it. If the ruling class can’t raise the debt ceiling then they can’t pay off their cronies, and if they don’t pay off their cronies then their cronies stop donating to all the corrupt politicians in Washington DC, and thus the whole corrupt house of cards comes tumbling down.

If somehow the American people can make Washington DC live within their means by not raising the debt ceiling, and if we could keep them from inflating the currency, we could end a lot of corruption in Washington DC and get rid of the illegal foreign invaders that are taking over America and have more clout in Washington DC than WWII vets.

Why is Arizona the only state to cut off welfare after the shutdown? This is the perfect opportunity to make your state’s parasites get out and move to rat states. The truly needy who remain will be helped out by citizens and the church.