I searched the scientific literature for the best description of a female sociopath. None rivaled this one that is more than 4,000 years old:

For the lips of a forbidden woman drip honey,
and her speech is smoother than oil,
but in the end she is bitter as wormwood,
sharp as a two-edged sword.
Her feet go down to death;
her steps follow the path to Sheol;
she does not ponder the path of life;
her ways wander, and she does not know it.

And now, O sons, listen to me,
and do not depart from the words of my mouth.
Keep your way far from her,
and do not go near the door of her house,
lest you give your honor to others
and your years to the merciless,
lest strangers take their fill of your strength,
and your labors go to the house of a foreigner (Proverbs 5:4-10)

Notice that the writer identifies the slick speech of a sociopath as well as the results of being fooled by her. He also identifies the profound lack of insight found in this disorder. Sociopathic women 4,000 years ago were also apparently using their sex appeal to con men out of money and possessions. This is indeed nothing new!

There is something inherently more repulsive and unbelievable about a female sociopath. Women by nature are preprogrammed to learn empathy and care-taking, the antithesis of sociopathic behavior. Indeed, one of the best indicators of sociopathy in a women is seen when the woman fails to care for her own child. It would seem then, that we would all be revolted by a female sociopath, so why do men become victims?

My own theory, which has been corroborated by many men who have written to Lovefraud, is that men accidentally fall victim to sociopathic women when they have sex with them. You see, normal men experience bonding just like normal women-especially when the sex is good. The sex with a female sociopath (I’m told) isn’t just good, it’s better than most mortal men have ever hoped for. Once hooked on the female sociopath, men become victims just as much as the women who become hooked on the male sociopath. Many male victims feel ashamed and emasculated. But, take heart guys, she actually preyed on the more masculine side of your nature, your enjoyment of sex!

Why are successful female sociopaths so sexual and so sexually appealing? Science does have some answers for us here. Testosterone which is elevated in many male sociopaths is also elevated in female sociopaths. Studies of non-disordered women indicate that higher testosterone levels are associated with increased sex drive, increased sexual activity and YES sexual attractiveness to men! High testosterone makes both male and female sociopaths sexually appealing. Testosterone may also be related to the lack of parenting behavior seen in sociopathic women. Women with higher testosterone have been found to be less interested in motherhood.

Men who have married and fathered children with sociopathic women face special challenges. They deserve all our love and support. The courts often do not recognize that a sociopathic woman is incapable of functioning as a mother. Fathers are left to helplessly watch as precious children suffer at the hands of their mother.

The courts would be wise to get smart and take heed because studies of adopted children reveal a terrible truth about female sociopaths. Female sociopaths carry stronger genes for the disorder than do males. A mother is more likely to pass this trait to children she has never met than is a father.

Even with a biologic mother who is a sociopath, children can do well if they receive exceptionally good parenting. If you are a man facing this situation, I invite you to visit Tips for Single Fathers, and to write Lovefraud with your story. We hope to one day be in the position to lobby for the rights of children of both male and female sociopaths.

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Comment on this article

I agree with your theory. My P, although was extremley beautiful, always claimed that she “emotions” were more like a man. and yes… the sex was very good, in fact it is the only thing I do miss about her.

Here is more from the bible.

21 So she seduced him with her pretty speech
and enticed him with her flattery.
22 He followed her at once,
like an ox going to the slaughter.
He was like a stag caught in a trap,
23 awaiting the arrow that would pierce its heart.
He was like a bird flying into a snare,
little knowing it would cost him his life.
24 So listen to me, my sons,
and pay attention to my words.
25 Don’t let your hearts stray away toward her.
Don’t wander down her wayward path.
26 For she has been the ruin of many;
many men have been her victims.
27 Her house is the road to the grave.*
Her bedroom is the den of death.

Prv 7:21-27

February 2, 2007 3:28 pm

gr8ful70x7

It’s not theory. We got the labs tests to prove it! Serum is much thicker than water.

From my experience I can tell you that the female sociopath I was conned by was tested and she had more testosterone than I! She complained to me that her level of 300 was, like everything else, MY fault!

For a time I required adjuctive testosterone therapy because my body was making none! And Maria claimed that my topical gel was responsible for her elevated levels of testosterone. [I took all necessary precautions and should her levels have gotten even higher, there’s no telling how aggressive she may have become! She never came in contact with the gel per the instructions on the packets.] Never mind that she was addicted to uppers & downers and she lied to our physician about taking drugs!

My T levels are now normal and my body makes it own. Still, it is nowhere as high as M’s were back then.

It is going on 2 years now and I am finally coming out it. BTW, the sex wasn’t so good. At least not for me, but I am certain that it was for her.

Come to think of it, she complained about it lasting too long and being unnatural to go that long. No woman had ever previously complained to me about that!

But, seeing how she worked as a prostitute for a decade in the in the “ritzy area” of St. Louis as Her Own Mother put it, I guess anything over 5 minutes and/or beyond premature ejaculation was “abnormal” to Maria.

God, THANK YOU for taking her out of my life. The cost has been tremendous. At times, almost unbearable. But I am starting to see my way out of it. YEAH!

Perhaps the stress of living with a female sociopath actually reduced your testosterone level. I am very glad to hear you are seeing your way clear. That can often take a long time. I also thank God every day that I lived through this with the strength to recover. Those of us who have had this experience share a comon bond.

February 7, 2007 6:40 pm

northamerican_bird

Interesting. I came across this site while doing some googling on whether sociopaths were “better at sex” than most people.
I’m 2 1/2 years out of what became a baffling and horrendous 6 year relationship with a male physician who I came to understand is a true sociopath. He has sucked the energy (and money) from his exes, his elderly mother, even his children. I came to see him as truly evil.
However, sex. Was simply incredible from day one and a strong binding force in the relationship. This sounds shallow of me I know; but the man was as manipulative and charming and attractive as can be. When people ask “what attracted you and why did you get into this despite the red flags” my glib answer is “the sex” and there’s some truth to that!
I mentioned this to my therapist today and he commented that in his experience this was a common theme in those who got involved with sociopaths. We mused whether sex, being an elemental “life force” and in the act containing a sort of essential, immediate honesty, was one place where a sociopath COULD be honest at least for the moment and thus an important “skill” for them to acquire?
Well this is a half baked notion perhaps and I know this is a late comment and this entry is about women but…you could put male pronouns in that Bible passage and retain the main idea.
Mind you that passage could also be merely speaking to the Biblical fear or sex and powerful women who don’t bow to the whole head of the household and chastity notion..

February 17, 2007 12:18 am

gr8ful70x7

PS What I failed to convey was this: At least in my case, the female sociopath was not a particularly good lover. She was far more concerend about her satisfaction than mine. In fact, I never met such a selfish lover.

Like many other signs, I ignored it and focused on the false hope that she might love me. As I write this, I realize the absurdity in that statment!

Nonetheless, the fact is The False Promise(s) which kept me motivated [that we would love deeply and have children] were just that. A carrot on a stick. An illusion taken from my own values and ideals [That’s how sociopaths hook us so well. They examine our values, dreams, hopes and wishes and then pretend to fulfill them!] is what she always held over my head to keep me interested, motivated and hooked.

Even after I discovered what she was and revealed it, MK kept on playing me with the old false promises and I could hear it in her tone of voice as she attempted to foist those off on me and pressed on with her manipulation:

Maria tried the ultimate in black mail and guilt manipulation claiming, ‘You know that child we talked about having, that was real.’ Right! As if anything she said was ever real/true.

Maria tried to use sex to attract and hold me and bind me to her, but she did that with EVERYBODY. All she had to offer was her body but she was a shell of a person. She lacked the ability to connect in anything other than a predatory manner. She could, as her deceased mother told me, love no one. Her mother could not understand shy she was a Registered Nurse because Maria couldn’t care for anyone!

Hey, she is a nurse and works Post-Op for a reason: It pays relatively well and she has ample access to hard drugs.

Be careful if you’re hosptialized at Baptist Hospital in Phoenix off HWY 51 and Bethany Home Road because she still works there!

February 21, 2007 11:54 am

why-cant-they-see?

I thought that readers may be interested from an un-proofed excerpt from my book (names changed for now). As the dust settles 3 years out of the marriage to my female sociopath I am still having difficulties re-engaging with old friends who think I am a kook. I would be interested to know if anyone else struggles with the same thing and if they sent an all encompassing apology letter to all and sundry once they were able to breathe again?

Note: “T-Rex” is the pseudonym for my ex-sociopath

At this point I must warn that this book contains page after page of abuse and disrespect ranging from minor insults like that above to heinous crimes that would receive a death penalty in some places. I am not the only victim, but with the exception of T-Rex’s first Husband I am the only one that allowed the abuse to continue for as long as I did when it would appear that I could have walked away. This certainly would have been the case before my children were born but with the advent of children the options were very limited for an Australian father in the USA without any family or close friends for support. Abandoning my children was not an option; the only choice that seemed feasible was to actively love T-Rex until she loved me back. Unfortunately I had never experienced a narcissist or sociopath before, and therefore did not have the foresight to know that she could never be satisfied. Many have described my commitment to our marriage for seven years noble, and others who saw through T-Rex called me foolish; but not to my face until after the separation. Despite my genuine attempt to justify contending with T-Rex’s abuses, many cannot understand the complexities of the web in which those who marry, live and stay with a narcissist are entangled. I fear that readers with little or no understanding of this issue will despise me or others like me for what they perceive as weakness or stupidity. To briefly acquaint the reader with narcissism, I have quoted an edited version of “Other People’s Pain” by world renowned expert on narcissistic disorder, Sam Vaknin, Ph.D.

The narcissist inflicts pain and abuse on others. She devalues sources of attention and/or admiration, callously and off-handedly abandons them, and discards people, places, partnerships, and friendships unhesitatingly. Some narcissists – though by no means the majority – actually ENJOY abusing, taunting, tormenting, and freakishly controlling others. But most of them do these things absentmindedly, automatically, and, often, even without good reason.

When I first read Vaknin’s explanation I was brought to tears, the experience was nothing less than chilling. Word for word I could expound on his scenarios with real-life copybook examples of my experiences with T-Rex. As for where this left me after seven years, Vaknin’s last sentence epitomizes my inability to disengage, I was partly a fool, but moreover I was emotionally paralyzed. I was like a grasshopper caught in a tangled spider’s web, I was paralyzed by her venomous neurotoxins and then had the life sucked out of me.www.narcissiticabuse.com states that:

“If you have ever lived in quiet desperation fearing the release of rage from the Pandora’s Box of the narcissist, then decided to stop the abuse, you have been the victim of a campaign designed to destroy you. It is as systematic, calculated and well thought out as that of any battle plan in any war.”

The above quote was particularly chilling in that the statement is absolute, it does not suggest that “you may have been a victim”, it presumes that “you have been a victim”. Although my battle still rages, I have survived and am surviving relatively intact to tell the tale by God’s grace alone; without Him I am certain that I would be dead, insane or in jail.

February 22, 2007 7:14 pm

patriotdad

Dr. Leedom

I was married to a female sociopath. It has been a living nightmare with insanity that my active imagination could never have conceived. We had a child. We were divorced 14 years ago. It is like I am still married to her because she uses our child to keep my enmeshed so completely it is impossible to maintain a relationship with another woman.

My child was molested 6 months before my ex filed for divorce. My ex protected the molester who was convicted of molesting our child and 3 others. My ex divorced me because I stood up to her over the issue of her continuing to put my child around the molester, my ex’s teenage nephew. My ex testified her own mother was the molester and abuser of my ex and her siblings. My ex continues to place our child, now nearly 16 around both child molesters. This is just one of ways our child is used as a tool to get at me and keep me involved as I try to protect my daughter from greater abuses.

The nightmare (and litigation) has been continuous as I have tried to maintain a relationship with my child and protect her from those additional abuses (many well documented in public record).

The court ignores recommendations, reports, and video recorded sessions concerning my ex’s psychological state, open alienation, and clearly stated goals of destroying me (without concern for our child). The last two psychologists have stated that they believe my child is still being sexually abused by my ex or her family (the one sex abuse outcry by our child is against her mother, multiple spontaneous outcries caught on video tape on one occasion and third parties, hearing these outcries at other times, providing affidavits.)

In a State, where family law is dominated by a blind dogma in support of the extreme feminist views of men always bad, women always right, my ex is allowed to admit to felonies on the stand and nothing is done, while the courts have spent weeks trying to find a time I may have even been rude to my ex.

I could spend days writing of the twists and turns of this situation and of the duped third parties she gets to fight her battles to destroy me and chase me off from seeing my daughter. And in all of those days of writing I would only be able to cover only 5%, at best, of the issues and documentable events.

The file in the court is over three feet thick. I have survived 19 false allegations of sex abuse of my child. I have survived hundreds of false reports to the police of abuse, stalking, harassment, etc… For 14 years, I have carried a tape recorder on my person full time. I had set up video cameras in my car to document everytime I went to my ex’s home for an exchange of our daughter. These kept me from jail but nothing would be done to my ex for all of these confirmed false reports (nearly all felonies)

When I tell my story to a judge and support it with third party documentation (police reports and the court’s own records) the judges, in the beginning, always treat me as the abuser and make such bizarre statements to me as to say that I could calm all this down just by “compliment your wife on her pretty red hair.” (only one of the many bizarre instructions of the courts)

My ex, while still married was cheating and then violently accusing me of the same. She went into a rage at one time where she foamed at the mouth. I guess when she saw the look on my face and me staring at her mouth she realized something was happening and wiped her mouth. Then the most terrifying portion of that even happened, she looked at the foam in her hand and knew what it was. She immediatly became calm, without saying a word, went into the house from the garage, and came back a few minutes later as calm as could be and gave me a glass of ice tea as if nothing had happened. I still see this as clearly as if it just happened.

I have been diagnosed as suffering from severe Traumatic Stress Disorder by the multiples of professionals appointed by the courts. When these professionals make reports favoring me and disfavoring my ex, the courts ignore their own appointees.

Dr. Stephen Baskerville has verified and quoted some of these issues in my case in his book, “Taken into Custody”. The courts have gagged me from reporting on the death threats to my elderly mother. The courts have ignored my ex and the convicted molester both admitting that my child was left alone with the convicted molester. My child’s outcries are ignored. And the nightmare continues. To defend herself from her own actions, all my ex has to do is accuse me of some new abuse and no matter what she has done and even admitted is brushed aside.

I still see my child some of the time I am supposed to have her. My daughter knows that I am always there but that her mother just doesn’t let her come see me. Some of the alienation is beginning to have an affect. But, whenever my child and I spend time together, most of it is dispelled.

You can not publish enough on this topic of female sociopaths. The court system in the U.S. can not comprehend the very existence of this pathology of women. It can only see all men as stereotypical abusers of women no matter the open admissions of the women in the court’s presence.

January 25, 2008 7:08 am

Ox Drover

God bless you Patriotdad—

February 25, 2008 3:45 pm

Ariadne

Flyingman,

The same thing happened to my father many years ago but he actually married the sociopath. The way she acted in the beginning of their relationship is exactly what is described in this bible passage. It makes me sick to read it.

Don’t beat yourself up over it, these people can fool 99% of the population.This is simply because before people experience it, they can’t believe that anyone would be so heartless.

My father is still married to my stepmother because of his incredible capacity for denial. He is a kind, intelligent man, but even after acknowledging her condition, he is still with her. He always seems so sad and reserved at home because he tries to ignore her craziness, but sometimes it is too much to handle. They have children together, which makes it even more difficult. I really hope not, but I think my half brother will end up to be a sociopath too. He is starting to show the signs and ever since he was small, he seemed to be hollow inside just like his mother.

You are smart for getting out of the relationship so soon. You recognized her for what she was and left before she could do more damage. That is not a small accomplishment. My father has been in the relationship for twenty years and suffers constantly.

It is very difficult when friends don’t understand the extent of the sociopath’s deception and evil. But that is why posting on this blog is so therapuetic. Everyone here understands what you’re going through.

I don’t know what to say about the healing time, except to say it really is a process more than a destination. As much as I wouldn’t wish a sociopath on anyone, we come out of the experience with an awareness that very few people have, so that counts for something. Take care and God bless.

March 18, 2008 1:44 pm

alohatraveler

To FlyingMan,

It is not atypical for people to give you advice that is unfitting in your situation. I would say, don’t take any advice from anyone regarding this woman unless they have had an experience like yours.

Since Sociopaths always blame you for everything, and you KNOW in your gut that something is askew, it would be disturbing having a well meaning friend trying to help you to look at yourself to figure out your part in it all. You may have had a part but it is not what your uninformed friends will tell you.

Being with a Sociopath is incomprehensible to anyone whom hasn’t experienced it first hand. Sociopath’s do not seem to follow the rules of the road when it comes to being human. They lack the very things that make us Human… I mean even some animals have empathy but Sociopaths? They lack the ability to put themselves into other people’s shoes, to feel the pain of others.. blah blah… or is that Narcissists? It doesn’t matter.. there is so much commonality and crossover.

How long does it take to regain your self confidence, you ask? It takes as long as it takes for you to fully comprehend the nature of a Sociopath and what they do and how they do it. In time, you will separate what sey said about you from what you knew about yourself before you met her. Look at your Diplomas. You did that work. The Sociopath can call you stupid, uneducated, a fraud… but how can it be true? A large institution and your Professors have acknowledged that you have done the work so how can a Sociopath undo this sense of accomplishment?! Don’t answer that… I know how… the point is, it is false. There will come a day… not too far from this day.. that you will laugh at yourself… because you let her talk you out of YOU! Weird isn’t it? It’s okay. I’ve been there… WE have been there… and I can feel a silent nodding coming from around the world of all the lovely readers that have been through the same thing. Being here, by the way, means you ARE on your way back to you!

Once, I was way too willing to “look at myself” based on what people say to me, about me. That could be an okay thing to do but not in the context of a Sociopath.

Another LoveFraud reader referred me to a series of articles that were very helpful to me. They are written in the perspective of woman being the victim but the author was a man that has his MFT cert. I think you would benefit from reading that series. Do a Google Search for “Romeo’s Bleeding Part 1.” There are 6 parts. Part 5 was the most powerful for me.

You had a relatively short time with this person but she did throw you off your track, didn’t she? I think you can get yourself back quickly but you must abandon all of her “observations” of you because these unfavorable observations, are really a description of who she is… I knew this but this was well put in those Romeo’s Bleeding articles.

Thanks to Peggy Pseu for sending those to me.

And goodluck to you FlyingMan. Please excuse my “Bad Man” expression I use here at LoveFraud. I know not all men are bad. :o)

Anyway, welcome.

Aloha……E.R.

March 18, 2008 2:37 pm

alohatraveler

to why-can’t-they-see,

I believe I read some of your stuff in the past. I recognize the “T-Rex” thing. I don’t have my book handy but did you write “Tears and Healing.” If you did, it was the beginning of my journey that eventually landed me here. I was a BASKET CASE when I read that book and it began to release me.

If you didn’t write that book, I know I read your stuff somewhere and it did help me over a year ago so I thank you. :o) I was reading a lot about the time that I found that book.

March 18, 2008 2:41 pm

Ox Drover

The Bible contains many many stories about psychopaths, male and female, and about parents who enable them. The story of King David and his son Absalom (II Samuel) about Jezebel and her husband Ahab, about other good Men of God who enabled their sons to be psychopathic abusers of the people and did nothing to stop them. In fact, the Jewish law even allowed a parent to kill a son who was a psychopath.

Even if you are not a believer, there are many good stories there that are very illustrative of psychopathic behavior in both men and women. Sampson and Delilah is another example.

It is interesting to me, too, that the character traits of the psychopath have been noted by people literally thousands of years ago and in such detail.

March 18, 2008 4:17 pm

flyingman

To Alohatraveler

Thanks a lot for your reply. It was really comforting reading it.
It seems like you know what I’m talking about, especially about the “undoing” of my accomplishments (in which would make me proud under different circumstances).

March 20, 2008 12:22 pm

alohatraveler

FlyingMan,

Words can be powerful. Most people use them more carefully than a Sociopath… or maybe it’s the other way around? Sociopath’s seem to instinctively know our fears, worries, and weaknesses and they go right for it with a viciousness most people have never experienced. With this, they take us down to the mat like a pro wrestler and we didn’t see it coming. Chances are, you gave her all your insecurities early on… like on your first dates. Did she ask lots of questions about you? They pull every detail about you, out of you… which hooks you and makes you feel so understood and cared about… now they have the Ammo they need to take you down… and FAST!

Does this sound familiar? It’s like braiwashing. There are books on that and there is a method. You have just gone through this and you didn’t even know. It’s designed that way… for you not to realize.

I am sure she has told you horrible things about yourself. One way to counteract this is to ask your lifelong friends and family to describe who you are… there you will find the answer. I have found that loved ones can be generous this way if you just ask. I don’t know you but I will start if for you… Wow Flyingman! Look at all those diplomas! You must be very hard working and committed to knowledge and growth! (I bet you there is more truth in that than anything your Bad Woman said!)

See… even strangers can be generous. :o)

March 20, 2008 12:44 pm

sunshower

I just signed up today. Ive been reading the blogs here and thought Id throw in my two cents. Im 44 and am about 5 months out of a relationship with a female soci. Wow. What a trip. Didnt see that coming. My story is text book to most others. I didnt know what she was till after it ended.
Betrayal and disrespect by people we give our hearts to. The main reason I wanted to write a few sentences on the subject, is not to tell my story, but to tell people who have lived this nightmare not to beat yourself up for too long. They’re not worth it! Some people in life are just wired wrong. It is what it is. A favorite saying someone told me recently is ” ya cat shine s**t. After scaping my heart up off the floor, and reinstalling it, I am much smarter and wiser than ever before. If another soci ever does come my way again, they wont be there long!!! Love is giving someone the power to break your heart, but trusting them not to. Choose wisely. Lesson learned. :-}

June 15, 2008 8:58 am

Beverly

Nice one Sunshower (I like your name!)!!

June 15, 2008 11:25 am

Indigoblue

Bible , Bible ,Bible, Bible, God ,God ,God God,

Seems to me there is a common theme here but that could just be ME!

November 3, 2008 7:17 am

quest

OK folks , heres the raw uncensored version of my experience with what I believe was a 100% psychopathic woman and my analysis of what I believe was actually going on as apposed to what I orginally thought . At the beginning the sex was out of this world but only because the psychopathic woman I was with had her act down pat . I am sure that this woman could have made a fortune as a prostitute . One time while we were having a few beers she mentioned to me that , first time sex was best . When I asked her about this comment the next day she denied saying it . Alcohol was almost like truth serum to her . So what was actually going on . To her , sex was a power tool , a way to get a guy hooked . Once she percieved that I had fallen in love with her the personally facade evaporated to reveal the true monster that she was . I do not believe that one can truely understand the psychopath by studying how much testesterone they have in their bodies . The T levels may be a fact , but what comes first the chicken or the egg . When A guy falls in love with a psychopathic woman or a woman with a psychopathic man what is actually going on . In my case I believe that the psychopath studies their victim and becomes them in a phoney type of way . Theres a saying that goes like this , opposites attrack . The rest of the saying is , people who are alike stay together . The psychopath knows this instinctively and so tries to become the same as their victim . The victim is actually falling in love with themselves , this is how the victim is hooked . Call it vanity if you like . There is another saying , in order to love someone you must first love thy self , or something like that . It is this self love that the psychopath understands and so the concept of mirroring comes about . When you fall in love with a psychopath you are falling in love with an image of oneself . This is a lethal trap , especially when the psychopath decides that they do not need to pretend anymore . Back to the sex thing . It is my belief that psychopaths do not really like sex at all . They know how to play the game and they will appear at first to be as sexy as can be . However once the victim is hooked that is basically when the sexual activity fades away . The victim is left wondering what the hell happened to the incredible sex life that once existed . The truth is , that for the psychopath that sex life never really existed at all . It was just a facade to get the victim hooked .
Once the psychopath has hooked their victim it is shut down time , meaning total mental shut down of the victim , into a zombie if you like . becoming the perfect prisoner and slave . Interestingly enough it is not just the logical mind that is shut down but also a lot of other aspects of the mind as well . From my own experience and from what I have read , people who have been in a relationship with a psychopath experience physical sickness as well as mental type confusion . Is the bodies immune system being shut down as well as the mental functions . One thing is for sure , never underestimate the power of a psychopath . To people I know , I have said many times , I do not believe in GOD but I sure as hell know where the devil is hiding . In normal life the average person is using less than 10% of their brain . What is going on in a psychopaths brain and how much are they using or are they just using different parts . Whatever the case keep these things in mind. If it doesn’t make sense , then its probably nonsense . Psychopaths are merchants of nonsense and distorted reality . Reality is your one defense against a psychopath , hang on to it at all costs

September 6, 2009 9:23 pm

anf06

Wow I read your article and all I can say is that your a very strong person and never give up in what you believe in. I never knew a sociopath woman, only a guy. I can relate to the molesting in your child and how you feel about that even though it wasnt your ex who did it. my sociopath had fantasies about that. Its very distburing. Just be there for her no matter what and be the best dad you can be!

September 6, 2009 9:38 pm

skylar

quest,
welcome.
I read somewhere that the illness in the body is the body’s way of alerting you to danger around you. I was sick for 20 years. I know part of it was my hyper alertness, but then again, when I left him he went and took all the food out of the refrigerator and took it to the dump. So, I can only assume that he was poisoning me and needed to eliminate the evidence without pointing to one particular food item. He had often mentioned how easy I would be to poison because I took so many vitamin pills. That was his way of throwing me off track. Anyway. They are not above ANYTHING, so don’t eat anything that she has been around. Not meant to make you paranoid, just wiser.

I begin contact with a Sociopath in Mid October 2009 on a highly reputable dating site. We were originally matched in September but I did not initiate contact until October. I was very ready to meet someone and fall in Love. On the first day of contact we were already talking on the phone. Our conversations over the next few days lasted for hours. We talked about every subject that we could think of. I felt I had met my soul mate. Within 2 weeks we had made plans for me to visit her in her town, several states away from me. A month after meeting her online I was boarding a plane to visit her. When I arrived at the airport I was welcomed by this women that was more beautiful than her pictures online. I felt as though I had won the Love lottery. The weekend I spent with her was amazing. She catered to me as though she was reading my mind. I asked for breakfast and received an amazing culinary creation. We had sex and it was passionate and frequent. When I was leaving I felt as though I was being torn away. After I arrived back in my city. Our phone conversations continued to the same intensity as before. One day in conversation, she mentioned to me that she was going to visit her friend in Virginia, in December. I did not think nothing of it until she all of a sudden had phone technical issues once she arrived to see her friend. She called me once during the weekend. She later apologized about her phone difficulties and her wanting to spend time with her best female friend. I knew something was fishy. She came to visit me on December 31 to bring in the New Year. We had an incredible time each day she was here. On the last day of her visit, just a week ago, I asked a question. I simply said ” I know what happened in Virginia”. She replied back with why did you allow this time to pass before you said this. She immediately went on the defensive. I just used reverse psychology to get her to admit. I was shocked that she was telling me about this guy she visited to end their friendship, yes friendship. She tried to lie and say she met a guy online that no sex was involved and she wanted to formally end everything with him. I wanted to believe her so bad, because I loved her at that point. We talked a few more days after she went back but I was too disgusted to continue. Her attitude with me being upset and emotionally disrupted was a a brief I’m sorry then a crazy sociopath statement. “You are in control over your emotions, not me”. She failed to realize or care about the pain she had caused me. I truly believed we were in Love and in a monogamous relationship. From first contact to being over was just a little over 2.5 months. That may seem like a short period of time, but it has had a strong emotional and physical toll on me.

January 12, 2010 1:11 am

Acer

Key Points to previous post.

I found out that she has mini relationship with guys in different cities. In her home city she presents herself as an angel who volunteers her time to the needy and can’t find a good qualified man that deserves such a great women.

She told me horrendous stories of abuse that happened in her family. I realize she told me these stories because she was catering to me being a compassionate person. She was good at her deception but my sixth sense kicked in…..

Thank God…..

January 12, 2010 1:21 am

pollyannanomore

Acer – welcome if you haven’t already been welcomed here. If you have … well have a second welcome 🙂
Even a short amount of time with a disordered person can have a profound effect on your emotions and reasoning capacity. Sounds like you had a lucky escape but it has left some damage for you. Read through the archives and you’ll find lots of wonderful articles that identify and explain in great depth the minutae of these relationship dynamics and the disorder itself.
Sorry you had such a bad experience, but glad you found the site – you’ll find good people here and plentiful support

January 12, 2010 6:19 am

Maryjane

Quest.. this is a profound comment..
“Psychopaths are merchants of nonsense and distorted reality . Reality is your one defense against a psychopath , hang on to it at all costs.”

And soooo true…

In my opinion, a sexual connection is a chemical reaction to another..
I had no sexual reaction to mine.. in fact, he was a turn off… I was literally repulsed at times and his touch felt like claws…

I felt it in my gut yet I stayed for awhile and watched yet participated.. he was so charismatic and contrived.. he wanted to make us happen so badly..

I have watched women like are described in the first post .. My father has had several after him and I can spot them at first site.. it is so obviously feigned ..
but I get caught by men that are like that.. and the interaction of attraction is the same.. except that they are feigning it..

January 12, 2010 12:13 pm

slimone

Acer,

Welcome, and kudos to you for stepping away from the Krazy so quickly. Though I understand the hurt and shock, despite the seemingly short timeframe. I had a somewhat similar experience. After a month found he was sleeping with another ‘friend’, that he met, and started sleeping with, on the very same night he started sleeping with me.

I however went with the Krazy explanation- that he wanted a monogamous relationship and needed to weigh which one of us it would be with (now I understand he was just deciding who was the better ‘mark’, and who had more goodies he could suck up)- and stayed in for another 9 months. It only gets more and more ridiculous. The sex gets weird, with holding and more straying, and the abuse comes on full force. So it is wonderful that you made your break and can get the healing started!

Welcome!

January 12, 2010 1:43 pm

Acer

Thanks for the Warm Welcome,

It is exactly one week since the truth officially came out. I’m still feeling the emotions of wanting to be with her. It is truly amazing what you discover about yourself when you experience the wrath of a sociopath. I understand now that I was seeking Love and communicated that openly with her in the beginning. She was masterful in being a great listener. She never really asked me questions, I pretty much disclosed everything about myself openly. I initially avoided her profile on the dating site because something did not sit right with me with one of her pictures. It’s weird but in one of her pictures she was smiling at a party but looked empty inside. This disturbed me because I was concerned she might have some serious emotional issues. The picture was red flag # 1. Red flag # 2 was how she looked at me when I visited her. It was a cold reptilian stare that she continued at times for the duration of my visit and her visit to see me. I asked her why was she looking at me like she was looking through me. She replied I’m just trying to soak in the short time we are together. This was extremely weird to me. Red Flag # 3, she was quickly repeating any words of affection I had for her with emphasis. Example: I said ” I love you baby”, her reply ” I REALLY LOVE YOU BABY” in almost a child like demeanor. After she confessed a week ago to visiting a guy in VA. She stated she did not have any sexual relationship with the guy. She said she wanted to contact a relationship counselor so we could talk it out. I agreed but still pushed for a complete confession. She contacted a relationship psychologist in my city and scheduled a phone consultation. We talked to the Dr. who stated that I must really care a lot to want to work it out after such a short time knowing her. In this short time I had actually feel in Love with the illusion. I kept pressing her to tell the truth. I wanted to hear her say she slept with the guy to totally lose my respect for her. This is how engulfed she had me. After tireless pressing of the issue she admitted that her visit to Virginia involved sex. She went as far as to use a friend to pose as the guy from VA and pretend as though they never had any sexual contact before she confessed. She expended a lot of energy trying to keep me caught in the web. At the same time I continued to neglect my better sense and tried to rationalize all of signs God was giving me.

January 12, 2010 4:16 pm

Matt

Acer:

The S I fell in love with did so many of the things your S did. The high-intensity rush up front, the great sex, the childlike mannerisms and the S eyes. Also, I pushed for couple’s counselling up front (what the hell relationship I thought I was saving still escapes me). Never went, but mine took a slightly different tack — whenever he knew I was at the end of my rope, then he’d announce that “You’re right. I’ve been running from my problems and need to go into therapy.” Never happened, all it did was soften me up to give him whatever he wanted on that particular day.

I was with my S 15 months. I wouldn’t wish those 15 months on my worst enemy. Count your blessings that you got out fast with your sanity and finances intact.

January 12, 2010 6:35 pm

recovering

quest — your comment is a keeper: “If it doesn’t make sense, then it’s probably nonsense. Psychopaths are merchants of nonsense and distorted reality. Reality is your one defense against a psychopath, hang on to it at all costs.”

Worth posting on my fridge as a reminder.

January 12, 2010 7:00 pm

slimone

Acer,

I understand the left over feelings of love and bonding. Even in light of the ‘truth’ of what she is. It baffles the mind a bit to find that we can have tender feelings for someone we know damn well is nothing but harm to us. Sex does that. Seduction, and the unspoken promise to fulfill our deepest needs does that (read Kathy Hawkes articles for more on this). Chemical bonds happen. They take a while to ‘come down’ from.

You don’t sound at all like you are compelled. But if you feel like contacting her, come here instead and read your brains out, till the feeling passes. But, like I said, you sound pretty solid, and I sense that you may be in a place to understand what happened, and why, and move on.

January 12, 2010 11:25 pm

Acer

I’m still going through this level of shock over meeting someone like her. Your exactly right SLIMONE about the SEX. I now have an anxiety over potentially being exposed to something from our sexual contact. I went to the Doctor yesterday for a battery of testing. This information we have shared with each other is vital for more people to read. We need to push this to the mainstream. I asked several people to explain what a sociopath is. There definition was that of a movie type serial killer. With this ignorance more and more people will encounter the S and not know what hit them…..

January 13, 2010 10:32 am

hens

I remember a blogger here named ‘Big Dude” he was involved with a female sociopath and was really having a tuff time with it. He once said that ‘ this was his only chance at love’..I related to that. Big Dude are you out there? Hows your life going?

January 13, 2010 2:35 pm

slimone

Acer,

Good for you, for going to the doc. Many of us here ended up being tested. And you are so right. Most people believe spatholes are serial killers and child predators. They have NO idea they are working for them, have them as neighbors. It is a quite revolution, this new spread of knowledge.

I know I have run into other people who have been targeted, and I tell them what I know and watch the lights go on. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Bells start to ring, and I know I have reached them and that they won’t be falling for it again. So, it is slow going.

I hope you will keep coming here, as you need to.

January 13, 2010 8:42 pm

duder

I am wondering if this is a good place to figure out if my wife is a psychopath.

She is beautiful, she can light up a room with her presence. Equally she can darken a room with her coldness.

The one thing I know for sure is that I don’t ever recall her truly being sorry. She has said it, texted it, written it. However I have never once seen her sincerely be sorry for anything. I have been with her nearly 15 years. I have never her seen her feel remorse about her actions towards anyone. When she would say she was sorry, she expects a person to just simply drop the subject because she said sorry. You know that feeling someone gets when they just feel bad they hurt you, or how you feel when you hurt someone? And you feel sad, and you say or they, I am so sorry I hurt you? I have never seen that. So when she says sorry, I never feel like what is going on will change, at least not for the reasons of compassion. I have seen things change out of not wanting to be inconvenienced.

Yet any wrong doing to her would be rehashed over and over again.

On the same token I have seen her cry when she is sad, cry during tear jerking movies, cry for other reasons. So it confuses me.

I have also never her heard her take the blame or responsibility for anything. Any wrong doing of hers end with a “because of” and either ends with something that has happened to her from me or someone else.

I say why do you blame me for all of your actions? She will say she doesn’t, and then finish the discussion with something like, “I just don’t say these things to you because you will just…”

Isn’t that still blaming me?

She says she was abused by her step dad, but doesn’t really have any thing to back it up. No real concrete memories or anything. I don’t ever tell her I doubt her because it would be horrible if it were true. The thing is, he step dad is a complete a-hole and a drunk, but something is not sitting right with the story. She can’t say really when or how old she was. No real solid story of what abuse took place.
She ran away from home at 16. She abused drugs. She told lies and made people feel sorry for her to gain status, a place to stay, money. When I met her I didn’t even know she had a daughter, who I have raised since she was a baby, because she left her with her mother full time. She doesn’t want to be close to any of my friends. And if we have mutual friends, she has to feel they will take her side in a dispute, or they are traitors and they are only my friends. Even if they want to simply stay nuetral.

I am bipolar, in remission now, and with my illness I did many stupid things. It’s been several years, I have my career on track as a software engineer, my kids love spending time with me. I have good true friends. I can look at the present and honestly say, I am far from perfect, but I do the very best I can for my family and I am proud of that.

But still to this day I am to blame for every single one of her problems.

For the most part she could seem very normal to everyone.
She is a leader when it comes to having a pack. However, she has never had a friend she could call life long. I have friends that have been close to me for years and years.
To the point we are like family to each other. She does not have one friend like that. Not at all.

She is not real motherly either. Not really involved with the kids on an emotional level. For years she was a stay at home mom, but didn’t get them in soccer, regular dentist appts. etc.
I had to do that.

She obsesses over herself. She is 35, beautiful, perfect body, slim, prefect appearance in every way. Yet she says she is fat, balding?, wrinkly, etc, when she looks better than most women 10 years younger. Everything she talks about has to do with her or her activities, nothing about anyone else.

For a year she was obesessed with working out. 4 hours each day. Now she is in to an extreme sport called roller derby. Our family is constantly put to the side for her activity. She can be gone up to 4 nights a week. Last weekend was mine and my sons birthday. She had a busy schedule with her sport. She had nothing prepared for us. She was gone until 4 in the afternoon on our sons 7th birthday. He had to wait almost the whole day to celebrate since she was gone. We had plans to have dinner with our friends that night for my birthday but I cancelled since she got home so late in the day. I didn’t feel right about taking off a couple of hours after he just got done opening his presents. When I told her I thought we should cancel, she said, “I knew I was going to pay the price for being gone a few hours!”

I do feel she does love me, the kids, and others, to what level I do not know. We rarely get any physical affection. Her emails are sweet during the day. In person is a different story.
My daughter who is 16 complains that her mom gets mad if she wants a hug. Sex is all but gone. I get flirted with and told I am an attractive man. I get nothing from her. She blames me or her trauma for not having sex. She has to have the prefect scenereo for us to do it. That scenereo changes which is hard because I can never get a romantic system down. We can never plan to have sex. Or she will make empty promises of sex at a later time, and it does not happen. Either it’s too late in the day, or I didn’t approach her the right way, but it’s generally my fault for her not wanting to. Sometimes she will do it either out of obligation or as a reward, but its very rare.
She loves for me to massage her back, tickle her back to get her sleepy. It can be months before I ever get a massage. I call her a “taker”. What I mean by that is she loves to take the affection but not give it.

I love her so much and if there is a chance this can get better, I want to fix it. Being bipolar I was able to get on the right medications, and I have been in remission and doing great for a long time. However, what I have been reading is that there is nothing that can be done about someone who is a psychopath/sociopath.

My ramblings can go on and on. So Can anyone help? How do I figure this out. I want the best for my kids first and foremost. I want to be happy also. I want my wife to love and respect me for who I am, not only for what I can do for her.

I really am desparate to figure this out. I am so smart in many ways, I have wisdom and can help others in their lives. But when it comes to myself and my emotions, I am of no use. I am afraid to give up on her if she is someone that can be helped. I do not believe in just giving up on people. It’s just, it’s not changing. Please your feedback and knowlege is much appreciated.

I am not feeling sorry for myself. I am the one who is married to her, I am the one who has a family with her. Untimately my destiny is up to me, and I will be the one to blame for what happens in my future. I just want to make the best educated decision I can make for the future of my children as well as myself. Where do I turn to?

February 9, 2010 3:48 am

geminigirl

Duder, you have EXACTLY, to a T, described my 45 year old daughter. Exactly! If I was asked to write a character study of her, it would be a carbon copy of your wifes description.! She left her nice husband nearly 4 years ago. She has thrown away her home, her husband, her 3 kids, her Mum,{me,} many great jobs, good friends whom she used once too often. She isa liar, a thief, a con artist, still looks good at 45, but as you described, in photos, the fake smile doesnt reach her eyes. Its all fake, a pose.I notice that her so called “friends” on facebook are getting younger and younger, as the old friends have sussed her out, and moved on.her ex husband says shes the coldest person emotionally hes ever met.I think she sucked him in with the promise of great sex, but he once told me she never used to even put her arm round him, and say, “How was your day, darling?” he said he felt he was dying from lack of affection.She has sponged off me , and used me financially for years, but last June I pulled the pin and told her “The Mum bank is now closed”. Since then, not a word from her.They behave like grandiose, special entitled beings.
I think she feels superior to the rest of humanity. Everything is always about HER.She is totally phoney and totally selfish.
As my daughter I still have some love left for her, {not much now, } but asa human being I cant stand her! I hate liars, I hate users, and con artists. I am well rid of her, and so is her ex, who now has the 3 kids full time.Sh e has them most weekends, and they still adore her.I suppose thats a good thing.God knows what will become of her, when she has finally conned her very last friend, and is truly on her own. What then? They are sick sick creatures. Love, and good luck! GeminigirlXX

Does your wife lie? If so, she may be a sociopath. In any event, she certainly sounds like a narcissist.

Either way, you need to realize that there is no treatment and she will not change.

February 9, 2010 8:46 am

Rosa

Duder:

The fact that she cries when she is sad, or at tear-jerking movies means absolutely NOTHING.
A psychopath (if she is one) can cry on cue better than the best actors in Hollywood. They have the most brilliant acting skills. So, don’t be taken in by tears.

Duder, has this woman ever cheated on you? Do you think she would? Is it possible that she could be cheating on you at the present time?

Did you express to her that it hurt you when she did not have anything planned for you and your son’s birthdays?
What was her response? Was she receptive, or did she dismiss the entire conversation?

Does she get bored easily?
Does she hate being alone?
Is she obsessed with money?

I suggest you start asking yourself a few questions, and watch for patterns in her behavior.

The fact that you have been with this woman for 15 years, and you are this confused about her behavior is troubling to me.

I admire you for not wanting to give up on her.

There are a lot of great articles here about personality disorders. I would advise you to keep reading and educating yourself on the subject.
Good Luck.

February 9, 2010 10:14 am

duder

It’s interesting. When she is home, she would rather be left alone. Sitting in front of the TV. No interaction with me or the kids. The times she wants to spend time with us is if it has to do with her skating as us being involved with only the things she wants to do.

She seems to have to surround herself with people that she feels are beneath her or will feed her ego. She has certain friends that think she is abused and she needs to get away from me. They don’t even know a thing about me nor have even met me. Those who do know me and have spent time around us don’t believe her.

I don’t know if she lies to me. I think she is really good at it and I would never know. She will tell me she won’t do something and then does it anyway with an attidue that she can do as she pleases and answers to no one. She tells me she is not good at lying. She says she hates liars and cheats. For the most part she is honest, but her rules are always a one way street. She doesn’t follow the standards she expects me to live up to.
I know she constantly talks bad about me, especially when she is mad. She doesn’t do it to my friends or our mutual friends since they aren’t conned by her. Not too long ago she left me, took everything out of the house, along with the kids, and lived with her friend rent free for a month! She had her friend convinced I was a horrible person and played off her sympathy. It was so odd.

I just know that if I am upset about something I am just “bitching”. Somehow it all gets turned around on me.
No matter how I try to approach her, it ends up with her angry. She does NOTHING wrong.

I got laid off from my job of two years due to the economy. I was really upset. She had practice that night. I asked her to stay home with me for support which I never do. She didn’t. She promised me when she got back we would do anything I wanted, she would spend time with me. When she got home, she had nothing to do with me. I was crushed. Later that week it was important for her to spend time with her friends who was upset because her husband just got laid off. It made me feel so bad that she was there for her and not me.

I tell her how I feel, she says she is not a affectionate person. She used to be more than she is now.

For about a year she would tell me she didn’t love me anymore which would last for a week or two, then she would love me and tell me how good of a husband I was for another week or two. This cycle has been on and off for some time.

It’s very hard for me since I am in love with her. I see her giving attention to her friends, attention I want. She is good to outsiders but not to me.

She is not a law breaker at all. She does not like having conflict with the law at all. It was me that would get in to a lot of trouble. She knew how to push my buttons big time. Before I knew I was bipolar it was easy to set me off. It felt like she wanted to bring out the bad side in me knowing I was ultra sensitive. I would get upset and do something stupid like get in to the car mad, do something stupid, and then she could justify how crazy I was. Now that I am well, she cannot do that to me any more. I can keep my cool and not react irrationally. I do know that I am a care taker. I love helping people, I feel good about being good support for my friends and family. Until recently, she would belittle me and make me feel horrible to the point I would give her anything she wanted. But yet it never made her happy with me. She would say if she had this, or if I would do that, things would be better, but the only thing it does is keep the peace.

Does this sound like a sociopath? How do I find out for sure?

February 9, 2010 11:06 am

one/joy_step_at_a_time

hi duder –

Your whole paragraph that starts with, ‘i don’t know if she lies to me’, is full of the ways she lies to you and others.

there is a very good book, available online and here in the lovefraud store, called the Betrayal Bond, that explains how we bond to people like your wife. There are also articles here, that will help to explain it. (articles on chemistry, hormones, nuero-pathways, and trauma)

there are also articles about the shared traits that those of us who have been involved with narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths. i know you are a guy, but ‘women who love pyscopaths’ is another book you may want to read.

Most of us here aren’t professionals, and can’t diagnose your wife, but their is a wealth of information and experience here for you to draw on. So read. Read lots.

one step

February 9, 2010 11:24 am

duder

Thank you all for your responses. I might add that yes she has severe hormone issues to the point she has to take flutamide an androgen blocker. It took me years to get her to a doctor, and once they did testing, her estrogen levels were so low it was scary. She still had no sex drive though.

February 9, 2010 12:06 pm

learnthelesson

Duder –

Congratulations on taking control of your life and getting help with living with BiPolar Disorder. GOOD FOR YOU!!!

Keep going in the direction that lends you what you deserve and need and want in a healthy life/healthy relationship. For yourself. For your kids.

Does your wife respect you? And show it?
Does she value you? And show it?
Does she love you? And show it?
Does she have her priorities and goals right? Show it? Are they in line with yours?
Does she make you feel like you are a good person ? Her actions? Does she treat you right? Behind closed doors as well as in public?
Do you have to hide your true feelings about things for fear of upsetting the applecart?
Are you ever concerned about your kids with her – her ability to care for them and give them proper nurturing and attention?
Does she use you?
Does she verbally abuse you?
Does she physically abuse you?
Do you feel alone and lonely with her — yet hold the title of her husband/partner?
Are you afraid to be your true self with her?

Does it matter if she is diagnosed a sociopath or selfish or narcissist or personality disordered? Will a particular diagnosis make or break your decision whether to stay or not in an unhealthy relationship for you and your kids?

There are no RIGHT AND WRONG ANSWERS TO THESES QUESTIONS…Just things to think about.

Its obvious you love her. And she is or was very special to you. Aside from having fallen in love with her years ago and having children with her — what is it about her today – here and now – in the present reality you are living with her — what is about her that you are in love with now?

Does she think anything is remotely wrong with her? Does she want to change anything about herself (that has nothing to do with her looks, her body) — but her personality and connection to you , your family? Does she strive to become a better person or is she content with her choices and who she is? Is she ok with not being close to you and sharing the things you feel are important to you and your family? Because this is where – if the answers are she really doesnt have a problem with the way she is — then this is the person you will be with forever. Sociopathic or not — this is the real her. She WILL NOT CHANGE – IF SHE HAS NO DESIRE TO. And as with being bi-polar – you know the choice had to come from within you to do something about it and change your ways, your life – for the better. Good for you. Keep at it! You deserve happiness and love and honesty and healthy relationships.

February 9, 2010 12:10 pm

Ox Drover

Dear Duder,

First off I HEAR YOUR PAIN! Secondly, I would like to say you have come too the RIGHT PLACE to learn. I suggest you go back to the old archived articles and read read READ. Knowledge is power!

Learn about sociopaths/psychopaths and the narcissistic thinking they do. Your wife, at best, sounds very very selfish to me. You and your children sound as if you want her to love you, but do not FEEL that love.

Love is NOT just a “feeling” it is an ACTION. Look at her ACTIONS not her “words>” Does she TREAT you like she loves you? From the descriptions you have given, I would say the answer to that is NO, but you are the one who must decide.

Also, you have children with this woman as well. This complicates the issue because if you decide to divorce this woman, will your children be better or worse off?

People who thend to “blame others” for their own unhappiness will becoome very vindictive if that person does not continue to “TAKE THE BLAME” (such as in a divorce action) and may use the children as weapons to hurt the other parent.

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER so read and learn. You are in a supportive enviornment here, welcome. Each poster here has been through “the fire” ourselves with a pain that only those who have experienced it can be called “crazy making.”

Being bi-polar and having found treatment that is successful gives you an insight that some people with “big problems” can be helped. Unfortunately with narcissism, psychopathy etc. there IS NO TREATMENT. They do not want threatment in any case, as they see themselves as above everyone else. Entitled to anything they want, when they want it, and do not care thatj others are hurt. Some even enjoy hurting others. Not all are “serial killers” by any means, but they hurt others none the less, especially their children and spouses.

Keep on reading and learning, and again, WELCOME. God bless.

February 9, 2010 12:13 pm

duder

Wow, learnthelesson that was a reality check.
Your questions were right on and when I answered I realized, there is really nothing in the present relationship to feel good about.

All of you have been such great help I appreciate it so much.
I am 35 and I am still young enough to get out and eventually find a relationship that gives back. I want to spend the last half of my life happy. And it may be the case it will have to be a life without her as my wife.

February 9, 2010 1:09 pm

ErinBrock

Duder:
“Does it matter if she is diagnosed a sociopath or selfish or narcissist or personality disordered? Will a particular diagnosis make or break your decision whether to stay or not in an unhealthy relationship for you and your kids?”

This is the truth….
Your not trusting your instincts….your gut….she’s got you so tied up in knots that you are questioning yourself.
Unravel it all with this question…..
ARE YOU HAPPY in this relationship?

It sounds toxic to me!

The doing anything for anyone else resonates with me….we used to say to the S…towards the end….’If we paid you, we’d get what you give the clients’.
Everyone saw the S as so giving….so caring….but that wasn’t the same person we saw at home….selfish to the core….
Recently,he was told by a ‘friend’……”ive never been asked to be someones friend and expect to pay money for it”….
This was totall validation for me.

In reading your post….the skating thing popped out at me…..sounds like a good excuse for an affair?
If my husband needed me, for WHATEVER reason….I’d give up skating practice for a lifetime…..
But…..that’s just me! (and forgive me if I’m way off base).

Your right…..your 35…..take care of ‘business’ and go seek what you desire from LOVE!!!
And I’d give you the same advice if you were 95!
XXOO

February 9, 2010 3:27 pm

Ox Drover

Dear Duder,

EB is right, the “diagnosis” or whatever “tag” you hang on to someone does NOT matter, they can all be summed up as TOXIC.

If a relationship is TOXIC it is not good for either YOU or the children.

I still recommend that you LEARN a lot more about your relationship, yourself and the person you are with before you act on lookiing to escape this relationship. Talk to an attorney, and maybe get some supportive counseling as well, and read read read here—all the old articles.

AND, read the artiles here about LEAVING A PSYCHOPATH, the thing is DO NOT GIVE HER ANY ADVANCE WARNING, get your DUCKS IN A ROW legally and financially BEFORE you make a move.

This is not an “underhanded” plan, it is simply SURVIVAL! If you give them any advance warning of your plans I PROMISE YOU IT WILL BITE YOUR BUTT,, and I think everyone here will second me on the truth of that. Since you have children you need to get custody of them if at all possible in order to protect them as much as you can from her. I can promise you as well, that she will make them suffer in order to “get even” with you. SHE WILL NOT play fair or reasonable, and once you make your move, KEEP THAT IN MIND.

Good luck and God bless. Keep on learning. It is our best defense…that and keeping away from them to the extent possible. With children it makes it more difficult, but not impossible at all. One happy parent is much better than two miserable ones. Good luck!

February 9, 2010 3:37 pm

geminigirl

Dear Duder,
you need to get all three of the books by Richard Skerritt. they are called,:Tears and healing”] [the first book,}”Meaning from Madness, and “Being in Love, and Loving it,-or Not. “They are all written by this guy who suffered for years living witha psychopathic wife, who totaly destroyed his confidence, raged at him, belittled him, etc. It was very hard as he, like you, loved his wife, but eventually to save his sanity, he had to leave her. I agree with Oxy, they are so vindictive, and bearing in mind you will have to try to get sole custody of these kids.They dont make good parents. My son in law started out agreeing that they have the kids week about,this was very disruptive and confusing for the 3 kids. However, he now has full custody f them and their Mum has them most weekends, so that he can get time to see his girlfriend. Eventually they get bored with the kids as they take up to much of their time, and they dont make good Mums. So if you hang in there , you MAY get them full time eventually. Oxy is right tho, they wont hesitate to use the kids as pawns, and bad mouth you to them.If you want any kind ofa life, I think you know the answer, you will have to leave her. I hope and pray you get the kids, if so. They NEVER change, and if she isa Narc/sociopath, they have no hope of EVER changing, as they dont ever think they are the problem, its always someone elses fault. She will destroy you if you stay with her.
Love, and Good luck, Gem. Read as much as you can, here on Lovefraud,buy as many of the books as you can, the “betrayal Bond is one of the best.But I think Richard Skerritts will really speak to you, personally. gemXX

From a respectful direction, I took a gander at Transsociopathica’s blog site.

Very interesting and fascinating theories he suggests, such as how the world is undergoing drastic changes, on a material level and a metaphysical one.

I agree wholeheartedly that something strange but also enlightening is happening to all of the planet’s living beings and the earth itself. What that is I wouldn’t even presume to know.

But, I’m a dedicated spiritual Christian and the Holy Bible is the truest source of knowledge, inspiration and healing for me so I will not dismiss the warnings written within it. I would be a flat out hyporcrite if I did such a thing.

Back to the blog. The author describes personality disordered individuals as Demonic Sociopathic Entities. Again, I agree with this label. They are vampires, energy drainers, soul suckers which is exactly how I would expect a demon to behave.

They are its and not he or she. They are the architects of chaos, destruction, violence, depravity, perversions, pain, sorrow and suffering.

They gravitate towards loving, giving, vibrant, kind and generous human beings, twistedly enthralled by our blindingly bright love-lights in an insidious effort to steal that which imbues our very essence. When they fail to take what is impossible, they split. Move on to another innocent human.

The blog master also states that the reason why we are hearing and seeing so many of these humanoids coming out of the woodwork, on the news or on websites like LF, being exposed after many years of cunning manipulation and deceit, is that because of the global changes in all areas, they are losing their ability to restrain themselves and their darker impulses. I also agree with that theory.

I limit myself to reading news websites because the horrors, the heinous foul crimes being committed by empty humanoids shocks and stuns and breaks my heart over and over again. But the sadness and frustration I experience are nothing compared to the fury.

Oh boy, sometimes I think I’m going to actually physically explode by the complete fury I feel when I read or hear of the terrors, the excruiating pain these foul fiends aka demons inflict upon such lovely, wonderful people.

It’s like a beautiful, vastly important, valuable spark of life is just callously snuffed out. Profoundly hurts me to realize such a thing.

The good news is that the righteous and virtuous will always triumph over evil. I say we are winning this spiritual war and we will continue winning this war.

Knowledge, education is the golden key and Lovefraud is only one of many vast libraries this key will open.

February 11, 2010 4:11 pm

Ox Drover

Dear sweet Janie,

I agree with your above post 110% and it also makes me angry when I read where people have been abused and especiallyy children. Remember that guy in Europe that had his daughter captive in a bunker for 19 years and had multiple children by her. I was so FILLED WITH RAGE against him for weeks after that article that I was literally almost SICK!

I also realize that NOT knowing about these things isn’t good either, because if you put your head in the sand like an ostrich, it isn’t good either, we do need to know some of the things that are going on in the world, but we don’t need to let them depress and distress us to the point that we can’t function either.

Mother Theresa couldn’t help EVERY homeless dying person in the world, and I know she knew that, but she did what she could for those she could help, and I think we need to realize that we can’t fix every injury in the world, either, but we can put out a hand to help those we can help, and LF is a good place to start.

Donna started this blog, and look at how it has grown and blossomed like a wonderful flower putting out sweet hope and love to so many people who are/were hurting….not every person in pain, not every person who has been abused, but SOME people. So if each of us reaches out to others with what we have learned, it is like ripples on a pond and keeps on spreading and spreading.

The Bible says that if we offer someone something as simple as a cup of water, we have done it to Him. When we help anyone even if they don’t appreciate it, even if when we offer them the water and they reach out and knock it out of our hands, WE have still done our part, even if they don’t appreciate it. It isn’t wasted effort, because the very act of reaching out helps US, if not them.

Janie, you have such a wonderful spirit and it fills my heart with gratitude and love for you! Thanks for being here on LF! (((hugs)))) and God bless.

Thank you so much for responding to me. Your post was truly lovely and inspiring.

Yeah, I understand that by simply offering to help in any way we can is a good thing. A righteous thing. But sometimes I feel as if I’m not doing enough to help. Do you ever feel like that?

I can’t save the world as I am not the Messiah, the Blessed Savior but I wish to always strive to do more good than harm. And I am suredly not alone as factually proven by all the sterling, beautiful, wonderful folks in the world doing their best to help those in need, easing pain and suffering.

I see them, I do, especially here on LF. Yes, this special internet place has become a radiant beacon of knowledge, understanding, compassion and love for all who wish to share.

Isn’t that superb? Just think, 10 years ago we would have never had such a benefit to know each other, to hold hands and share our energies in positive, healing ways. Truly remarkable.

I will never, ever take all that I have learned and yes, needed to read and feel from LF for granted.

I give credit where credit is due and the sheer volume of lovely folks who have reached out to me (including you, dear friend) and offered altruistic assistance in my own healing and learning journey just blows my mind. And makes my heart swell with love.

None of you should ever seek to change to please anyone. You’re marvelous, spectacular just the way you are.