Secondary Navigation

Place names

Dear members of the list, This is a very fresh story from last week which I think you should know. I have a client from US, who ordered a research in a place

Message 1 of 17
, Nov 2, 2004

Dear members of the list,
This is a very fresh story from last week which I think you should know.
I have a client from US, who ordered a research in a place in Austria, near Graz. The surname actually was slavic.
The client already visited this place but could not find any reference to his ancestor, nor a house.
Unfortunately, there were three places in Austria with this same place name. I spent the whole day in the Graz archive and found nothing. This ancestor later changed his name to a german name and there were several families with this name there all right, but not my John.
Towards the end of my research the whole thing became fishy to me,and I began to think with my own brain, away from what the client told me. I took an old gazeteer of Austria -Hungary and looked for this place name. It was there, but only once and it said, it was in Slovenia, almost in Italy.I changed my traveling plans and went to Slovenia and visited this parish office during a day, that was very busy. There I found the whole family and yesterday evening I was already chatting with the slovenian relatives. All found! I also located their cousins in the States, which they were not aware of. It's gonna be a big party now.
What was the expensive mistake of my client?
- they took the name as it was written in the naturalization papers and found the place on the current map of Austria. They did not take into account, that back then, there may have been also other places in other lands of the Empire, who had the same name, but would be more probable with regard to the slavic name.
When back in my office, I took a closer look at all german place names of slovenian places back then, and found out, that there were also three of them in Slovenia as well! I was very lucky to bet on the right one right away.
I strongly suggest not to underestimate the geographical issues. A mistake can be expensive and frustrating.
I can also tell you, that this is not my first case, that followed exactly the same pattern.
Best regards,
Vladimir

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kimberlygodush

In a very short time...we will be visiting Slovakia. We have been doing some research with a little help and a few surprises. A couple of questions for those

Message 2 of 17
, Jul 16, 2015

In a very short time...we will be visiting Slovakia. We have been doing some research with a little help and a few surprises.

A couple of questions for those more learned. A couple of towns are listed on some naturalization paperwork or my husband's great grandparents.

Some towns listed are Yeratown Czechoslovakia and Hziedzina or Dziedzina, Hungary. I do not recognize these towns. The family was from Backovik (Batyok) and Boliarov (Bolivar) Slovakia.

Dates for births are so random-some are days off from what was expected, other months and years. Is this a common finding?

The same surnames run back and forth in the tree. I have found this in US records but not nearly to the extent I am finding them in Slovakia. It does make research difficult. Is this also a common finding?

Other names we have come across are

Kristoff, Jurcso, Forgacs, Mosko, Noszaly, Burcsak, Rabatin, Petrik, and Furman, just in case anyone else has been researching these names.

Also, anyone who is from the Kosice region or who has visited, is welcome to tell me a little about the area :)

In a very short time...we will be visiting Slovakia. We have been doing
some research with a little help and a few surprises.

A couple of questions for those more learned. A couple of towns are
listed on some naturalization paperwork or my husband's great grandparents.

Some towns listed are Yeratown Czechoslovakia and Hziedzina or
Dziedzina, Hungary. I do not recognize these towns. The family was from Backovik
(Batyok) and Boliarov (Bolivar) Slovakia.

Dates for births are so random-some are days off from what was
expected, other months and years. Is this a common finding?

The same surnames run back and forth in the tree. I have found this in
US records but not nearly to the extent I am finding them in Slovakia. It does
make research difficult. Is this also a common finding?

Other names we have come across are

Kristoff, Jurcso, Forgacs, Mosko, Noszaly, Burcsak, Rabatin, Petrik,
and Furman, just in case anyone else has been researching these
names.

Also, anyone who is from the Kosice region or who has visited, is
welcome to tell me a little about the area :)

Thank you,

Kimberly Godush

kimberlygodush

Michael-- I have both a handwritten and a typed court record. The typed record reads Dziedzina . Additionally he filed two declarations of intention. The

Message 4 of 17
, Jul 16, 2015

Michael--

I have both a handwritten and a typed court record. The typed record reads "Dziedzina".

Additionally he filed two declarations of intention. The first in 1924 reads --I was born in Bocikovik, Hungary...my last foreign residence was Dziedzina, Hungary...my wife was born in Dziedzina.

The second from 1927 reads--I was born in Baukovik Czechoslovakia...my last foreign residence was Baukovick Czechoslovakia...my wife was born in Yeratown, Czechoslovakia.

His petition for nauturalization in 1929 reads I was born in Baukovick, Czechoslovakia...my wife was born in Yaratown, Czechoslovakia.

NOW MIND YOU... :) This was probably spoken by a non-English speaker to a non-Slovak speaking clerk. I know that he was born in Backovik, and I have a record that says she was born just north of there in Bolivar/Boliavar, but this issue is bugging me.

I agree, I don't think Yaratown is Slovak, but don't know how it got on two records without it meaning something :(

In a very short time...we will be visiting Slovakia. We have been doing some research with a little help and a few surprises.

A couple of questions for those more learned. A couple of towns are listed on some naturalization paperwork or my husband's great grandparents.

Some towns listed are Yeratown Czechoslovakia and Hziedzina or Dziedzina, Hungary. I do not recognize these towns. The family was from Backovik (Batyok) and Boliarov (Bolivar) Slovakia.

Dates for births are so random-some are days off from what was expected, other months and years. Is this a common finding?

The same surnames run back and forth in the tree. I have found this in US records but not nearly to the extent I am finding them in Slovakia. It does make research difficult. Is this also a common finding?

Other names we have come across are

Kristoff, Jurcso, Forgacs, Mosko, Noszaly, Burcsak, Rabatin, Petrik, and Furman, just in case anyone else has been researching these names.

Also, anyone who is from the Kosice region or who has visited, is welcome to tell me a little about the area :)

Thank you,

Kimberly Godush

Plichta

Kimberly et al, Don t forget that most individuals coming to American during this period were illiterate. They would pronounce the location name to the person

Message 5 of 17
, Jul 16, 2015

Kimberly et al,

Don’t forget that most individuals coming
to American during this period were illiterate. They would pronounce the
location name to the person recording the data who may or may not have had a
knowledge of the Slovak, Magyar, German etc.

The recorder wrote what he though he
heard.

Place names did also change over time. I
have emailed you directly some of my research about place name. I hope you
find it helpful.

Frank Plichta

Searching the world for ANY Plichta, from
ANY place and at ANY time in history.

I have both a handwritten and a typed
court record. The typed record reads "Dziedzina".

Additionally he filed two declarations of
intention. The first in 1924 reads --I was born in Bocikovik,
Hungary ...my last foreign residence was
Dziedzina, Hungary ...my
wife was born in Dziedzina.

The second from 1927 reads--I was born in
Baukovik Czechoslovakia ...my
last foreign residence was Baukovick Czechoslovakia ...my
wife was born in Yeratown ,
Czechoslovakia .

His petition for nauturalization in 1929
reads I was born in Baukovick, Czechoslovakia ...my
wife was born in Yaratown ,
Czechoslovakia .

NOW MIND YOU... :) This was
probably spoken by a non-English speaker to a non-Slovak speaking clerk. I know
that he was born in Backovik, and I have a record that says she was born just
north of there in Bolivar/Boliavar, but this issue is bugging me.

I agree, I don't think Yaratown is
Slovak, but don't know how it got on two records without it meaning something
:(

In
a very short time...we will be visiting
Slovakia . We have been doing some
research with a little help and a few surprises.

A
couple of questions for those more learned. A couple of towns are listed on
some naturalization paperwork or my husband's great grandparents.

Some
towns listed are Yeratown Czechoslovakia
and Hziedzina or Dziedzina ,
Hungary . I do
not recognize these towns. The family was from Backovik (Batyok) and Boliarov
(Bolivar) Slovakia .

Dates
for births are so random-some are days off from what was expected, other months
and years. Is this a common finding?

The
same surnames run back and forth in the tree. I have found this in US records
but not nearly to the extent I am finding them in
Slovakia . It does make research
difficult. Is this also a common finding?

Other
names we have come across are

Kristoff,
Jurcso, Forgacs, Mosko, Noszaly, Burcsak, Rabatin, Petrik, and Furman, just in
case anyone else has been researching these names.

Also,
anyone who is from the Kosice
region or who has visited, is welcome to tell me a little about the
area :)

Don’t forget that most individuals coming to American during this period were illiterate. They would pronounce the location name to the person recording the data who may or may not have had a knowledge of the Slovak, Magyar, German etc.

The recorder wrote what he though he heard.

Place names did also change over time. I have emailed you directly some of my research about place name. I hope you find it helpful.

Frank Plichta

Searching the world for ANY Plichta, from ANY place and at ANY time in history.

I have both a handwritten and a typed court record. The typed record reads "Dziedzina".

Additionally he filed two declarations of intention. The first in 1924 reads --I was born in Bocikovik, Hungary...my last foreign residence was Dziedzina, Hungary...my wife was born in Dziedzina.

The second from 1927 reads--I was born in Baukovik Czechoslovakia...my last foreign residence was Baukovick Czechoslovakia...my wife was born in Yeratown, Czechoslovakia.

His petition for nauturalization in 1929 reads I was born in Baukovick, Czechoslovakia...my wife was born in Yaratown, Czechoslovakia.

NOW MIND YOU... :) This was probably spoken by a non-English speaker to a non-Slovak speaking clerk. I know that he was born in Backovik, and I have a record that says she was born just north of there in Bolivar/Boliavar, but this issue is bugging me.

I agree, I don't think Yaratown is Slovak, but don't know how it got on two records without it meaning something :(

In a very short time...we will be visiting Slovakia. We have been doing some research with a little help and a few surprises.

A couple of questions for those more learned. A couple of towns are listed on some naturalization paperwork or my husband's great grandparents.

Some towns listed are Yeratown Czechoslovakia and Hziedzina or Dziedzina, Hungary. I do not recognize these towns. The family was from Backovik (Batyok) and Boliarov (Bolivar) Slovakia.

Dates for births are so random-some are days off from what was expected, other months and years. Is this a common finding?

The same surnames run back and forth in the tree. I have found this in US records but not nearly to the extent I am finding them in Slovakia. It does make research difficult. Is this also a common finding?

Other names we have come across are

Kristoff, Jurcso, Forgacs, Mosko, Noszaly, Burcsak, Rabatin, Petrik, and Furman, just in case anyone else has been researching these names.

Also, anyone who is from the Kosice region or who has visited, is welcome to tell me a little about the area :)

Thank you,

Kimberly Godush

randm1979

Kim, Suggest you upload images of the records with those town names. My limited experience is like yours on birth dates -- but less so for people coming from

Message 7 of 17
, Jul 16, 2015

Kim,

Suggest you upload images of the records with those town names.

My limited experience is like yours on birth dates -- but less so for people coming from larger towns. My wife's Slovak ancestors from these villages north of Kosice also had stateside records showing births up to 3 years different from the Slovak church records.

I think it is not surprising to find recurring names in your tree, since they were Protestants (?) from a cluster of small villages.

Mel

kimberlygodush

Mel, Thanks. I have not been able to find any towns by those names, or with those names prior :( ... From: randm1979@yahoo.com [SLOVAK-ROOTS]

Message 8 of 17
, Jul 16, 2015

Mel,

Thanks. I have not been able to find any towns by those names, or with those names prior :(

My limited experience is like yours on birth dates -- but less so for people coming from larger towns. My wife's Slovak ancestors from these villages north of Kosice also had stateside records showing births up to 3 years different from the Slovak church records.

I think it is not surprising to find recurring names in your tree, since they were Protestants (?) from a cluster of small villages.

Mel

randm1979

Kim, I meant to suggest you upload the handwritten records; maybe alternate transcriptions are possible.

Message 9 of 17
, Jul 16, 2015

Kim,

I meant to suggest you upload the handwritten records; maybe alternate transcriptions are possible.

MGMojher

Kimberly, Here is the problem, in the 1995 database of Slovak locations and my road atlas there are only two locations that begin with a “Dz”. Neither are

Message 10 of 17
, Jul 16, 2015

Kimberly,

Here is the problem, in the 1995 database of Slovak
locations and my road atlas there are only two locations that begin with a “Dz”.
Neither are Dziedzina. There can be a problem of transcription as you pointed
out. If your relative was not literate he would have spoken the name and the
person would write down what they think they heard. If you have ever listened to
Slovak being spoken you know that they speak the alphabet very differently from
the English version.

The very apparent town name I pointed not to be Slovak
is Yeratown. I did find a Yaratown in Australia. In my road atlas they don’t
even have a “Y” listing for towns. It is pronounced as – ih, as they y in
rhythm.

You do have Backovik and Bolivar, which are located
close to one another. Also relatively close to Kosice.

In genealogy you will come across things that cannot be
solved.

In the database you can search surnames. Kristoff had
thee finds in two locations. Jurcso is not in the database, the alternative
given was Jurco and 7 of the 35 were in HNIEZDNE,
okr.STARÁ ĽUBOVŇA– 7×; a
strong clue that Dziedzina may be Hniezdne.
Forgacs for 143 of them in 43 locations, of the top ten
locations listed none were near Kocise. Mosko 338 finds in 73 locations. Noszaly
5 finds in 1 location, STRÁŽNE,
okr.TREBIŠOV. Rabatin 245 finds in 70 locations, two of which are near to
Hniezdne. Petrik is a name of a village, when used with a
surname it is part of a hyphenated name, only three of those. Furman 155 finds
in 54 locations.

It is very common for dates to be off, even by years.
Peasants were illiterate. So things had to be memorized. In Slovakia Name Day is
a bigger event than a birthday. You can only trust what you find in the
records.

I have both a handwritten and a typed court record. The typed record reads
"Dziedzina".

Additionally he filed two declarations of intention. The first in 1924
reads --I was born in Bocikovik, Hungary...my last foreign residence was
Dziedzina, Hungary...my wife was born in Dziedzina.

The second from 1927 reads--I was born in Baukovik Czechoslovakia...my last
foreign residence was Baukovick Czechoslovakia...my wife was born in
Yeratown, Czechoslovakia.

His petition for nauturalization in 1929 reads I was born in Baukovick,
Czechoslovakia...my wife was born in Yaratown, Czechoslovakia.

NOW MIND YOU... :) This was probably spoken by a non-English speaker
to a non-Slovak speaking clerk. I know that he was born in Backovik, and I have
a record that says she was born just north of there in Bolivar/Boliavar, but
this issue is bugging me.

I agree, I don't think Yaratown is Slovak, but don't know how it got on two
records without it meaning something :(

In a very short time...we will be visiting Slovakia. We have been
doing some research with a little help and a few surprises.

A couple of questions for those more learned. A couple of towns are
listed on some naturalization paperwork or my husband's great grandparents.

Some towns listed are Yeratown Czechoslovakia and Hziedzina or
Dziedzina, Hungary. I do not recognize these towns. The family was from Backovik
(Batyok) and Boliarov (Bolivar) Slovakia.

Dates for births are so random-some are days off from what was
expected, other months and years. Is this a common finding?

The same surnames run back and forth in the tree. I have found this
in US records but not nearly to the extent I am finding them in Slovakia. It
does make research difficult. Is this also a common finding?

Other names we have come across are

Kristoff, Jurcso, Forgacs, Mosko, Noszaly, Burcsak, Rabatin, Petrik,
and Furman, just in case anyone else has been researching these
names.

Also, anyone who is from the Kosice region or who has visited,
is welcome to tell me a little about the area :)

Thank you,

Kimberly Godush

kimberlygodush

Thank you Michael, Run back and forth... A Godus marries a Forgac and a Forgac marries a Kristoff then a Kristoff marries a Godus and another marries a

Message 11 of 17
, Jul 16, 2015

Thank you Michael,

Run back and forth... A Godus marries a Forgac and a Forgac marries a Kristoff then a Kristoff marries a Godus and another marries a Forgac-- etc :) In the birth records you can find the names "crisscrossed" all over the page.

Here is the problem, in the 1995 database of Slovak locations and my road atlas there are only two locations that begin with a “Dz”. Neither are Dziedzina. There can be a problem of transcription as you pointed out. If your relative was not literate he would have spoken the name and the person would write down what they think they heard. If you have ever listened to Slovak being spoken you know that they speak the alphabet very differently from the English version.

The very apparent town name I pointed not to be Slovak is Yeratown. I did find a Yaratown in Australia. In my road atlas they don’t even have a “Y” listing for towns. It is pronounced as – ih, as they y in rhythm.

You do have Backovik and Bolivar, which are located close to one another. Also relatively close to Kosice.

In genealogy you will come across things that cannot be solved.

In the database you can search surnames. Kristoff had thee finds in two locations. Jurcso is not in the database, the alternative given was Jurco and 7 of the 35 were in
HNIEZDNE,
okr.
STARÁ ĽUBOVŇA– 7×; a strong clue that Dziedzina may be Hniezdne. Forgacs for 143 of them in 43 locations, of the top ten locations listed none were near Kocise. Mosko 338 finds in 73 locations. Noszaly 5 finds in 1 location, STRÁŽNE,
okr.
TREBIŠOV. Rabatin 245 finds in 70 locations, two of which are near to Hniezdne. Petrik is a name of a village, when used with a surname it is part of a hyphenated name, only three of those. Furman 155 finds in 54 locations.

It is very common for dates to be off, even by years. Peasants were illiterate. So things had to be memorized. In Slovakia Name Day is a bigger event than a birthday. You can only trust what you find in the records.

I have both a handwritten and a typed court record. The typed record reads "Dziedzina".

Additionally he filed two declarations of intention. The first in 1924 reads --I was born in Bocikovik, Hungary...my last foreign residence was Dziedzina, Hungary...my wife was born in Dziedzina.

The second from 1927 reads--I was born in Baukovik Czechoslovakia...my last foreign residence was Baukovick Czechoslovakia...my wife was born in Yeratown, Czechoslovakia.

His petition for nauturalization in 1929 reads I was born in Baukovick, Czechoslovakia...my wife was born in Yaratown, Czechoslovakia.

NOW MIND YOU... :) This was probably spoken by a non-English speaker to a non-Slovak speaking clerk. I know that he was born in Backovik, and I have a record that says she was born just north of there in Bolivar/Boliavar, but this issue is bugging me.

I agree, I don't think Yaratown is Slovak, but don't know how it got on two records without it meaning something :(

In a very short time...we will be visiting Slovakia. We have been doing some research with a little help and a few surprises.

A couple of questions for those more learned. A couple of towns are listed on some naturalization paperwork or my husband's great grandparents.

Some towns listed are Yeratown Czechoslovakia and Hziedzina or Dziedzina, Hungary. I do not recognize these towns. The family was from Backovik (Batyok) and Boliarov (Bolivar) Slovakia.

Dates for births are so random-some are days off from what was expected, other months and years. Is this a common finding?

The same surnames run back and forth in the tree. I have found this in US records but not nearly to the extent I am finding them in Slovakia. It does make research difficult. Is this also a common finding?

Other names we have come across are

Kristoff, Jurcso, Forgacs, Mosko, Noszaly, Burcsak, Rabatin, Petrik, and Furman, just in case anyone else has been researching these names.

Also, anyone who is from the Kosice region or who has visited, is welcome to tell me a little about the area :)

Thank you,

Kimberly Godush

Regina Haring

My paternal grandfather was Andrej Rabatin who was born in Secovska Polianka in Vranov nad Toplou in 1861. He came here in 1881 and became a naturalized

Message 12 of 17
, Jul 16, 2015

My paternal grandfather was Andrej Rabatin who was born in Secovska Polianka in Vranov nad Toplou in 1861. He came here in 1881 and became a naturalized citizen in 1909, at which time he forswore allegiance to Francis Joseph, Emperor of Austria. In 1897 he married Juliana Makohus, also from Secovska Polianka - she was born in 1885. Andrej died in 1917 and Juliana in 1944.

Through the kindness of this list I learned only recently that they were married in NYC in 1897. I had heard that "baba" Rabatin was Greek Catholic, so I would think their marriage was in a G.C. church. St. Mary's in Haverstraw, NY, a Roman Catholic church founded by the Slovak community, didn't open until 1898, and unfortunately it has just been announced that it will close. But where they had married had always been a mystery until recently.

Many people from Secovska Polianka came to Haverstraw for good jobs in the then thriving brickyards.

I had heard that Rabatin was a fairly common name in Slovakia - but I also heard that it was not a typical Slovak name, but Rusyn. I had never heard that in connection with the family.

Here is the problem, in the 1995 database of Slovak
locations and my road atlas there are only two locations that begin with a “Dz”.
Neither are Dziedzina. There can be a problem of transcription as you pointed
out. If your relative was not literate he would have spoken the name and the
person would write down what they think they heard. If you have ever listened to
Slovak being spoken you know that they speak the alphabet very differently from
the English version.

The very apparent town name I pointed not to be Slovak
is Yeratown. I did find a Yaratown in Australia. In my road atlas they don’t
even have a “Y” listing for towns. It is pronounced as – ih, as they y in
rhythm.

You do have Backovik and Bolivar, which are located
close to one another. Also relatively close to Kosice.

In genealogy you will come across things that cannot be
solved.

In the database you can search surnames. Kristoff had
thee finds in two locations. Jurcso is not in the database, the alternative
given was Jurco and 7 of the 35 were in HNIEZDNE, okr.STARÁ ĽUBOVŇA– 7×; a
strong clue that Dziedzina may be Hniezdne.
Forgacs for 143 of them in 43 locations, of the top ten
locations listed none were near Kocise. Mosko 338 finds in 73 locations. Noszaly
5 finds in 1 location, STRÁŽNE, okr.TREBIŠOV. Rabatin 245 finds in 70 locations, two of which are near to
Hniezdne. Petrik is a name of a village, when used with a
surname it is part of a hyphenated name, only three of those. Furman 155 finds
in 54 locations.

It is very common for dates to be off, even by years.
Peasants were illiterate. So things had to be memorized. In Slovakia Name Day is
a bigger event than a birthday. You can only trust what you find in the
records.

I wish to comment here, to assure that participants are aware of the fact that there are dialects spoken in certain areas of Slovakia. In the East the main

Message 13 of 17
, Jul 16, 2015

I wish to comment here, to assure that participants are aware of the fact that there are dialects spoken in certain areas of Slovakia. In the East the main dialects are Spis [Spee-ish] and [ Saris [Sahrrr-eesh].

Many Slovak immigrants were not educated by the Hungarian land owners. Therefor, they were not familiar with the codified Slovak Language. This was first done by Anton Bernolák [Behrrnoh-lahk] in 1843's.

In explanation from the above site: Consonants ť and ď, including t and d when softened, realised as c and dz (deti > dzeci), meaning the infinitive ending for verbs changes from -ť (robiť) to -c (robic). The consonants ť and ď can only be found in onomatopoeia (ďub ďub = the cooing of a pigeon), and loanwords including personal names (Juraj > Ďura) in Eastern dialects.[1]

My paternal grandfather was Andrej Rabatin who was born in Secovska Polianka in Vranov nad Toplou in 1861. He came here in 1881 and became a naturalized citizen in 1909, at which time he forswore allegiance to Francis Joseph, Emperor of Austria. In 1897 he married Juliana Makohus, also from Secovska Polianka - she was born in 1885. Andrej died in 1917 and Juliana in 1944.

Through the kindness of this list I learned only recently that they were married in NYC in 1897. I had heard that "baba" Rabatin was Greek Catholic, so I would think their marriage was in a G.C. church. St. Mary's in Haverstraw, NY, a Roman Catholic church founded by the Slovak community, didn't open until 1898, and unfortunately it has just been announced that it will close. But where they had married had always been a mystery until recently.

Many people from Secovska Polianka came to Haverstraw for good jobs in the then thriving brickyards.

I had heard that Rabatin was a fairly common name in Slovakia - but I also heard that it was not a typical Slovak name, but Rusyn. I had never heard that in connection with the family.

Here is the problem, in the 1995 database of Slovak
locations and my road atlas there are only two locations that begin with a “Dz”.
Neither are Dziedzina. There can be a problem of transcription as you pointed
out. If your relative was not literate he would have spoken the name and the
person would write down what they think they heard. If you have ever listened to
Slovak being spoken you know that they speak the alphabet very differently from
the English version.

The very apparent town name I pointed not to be Slovak
is Yeratown. I did find a Yaratown in Australia. In my road atlas they don’t
even have a “Y” listing for towns. It is pronounced as – ih, as they y in
rhythm.

You do have Backovik and Bolivar, which are located
close to one another. Also relatively close to Kosice.

In genealogy you will come across things that cannot be
solved.

In the database you can search surnames. Kristoff had
thee finds in two locations. Jurcso is not in the database, the alternative
given was Jurco and 7 of the 35 were in HNIEZDNE, okr.STARÁ ĽUBOVŇA– 7×; a
strong clue that Dziedzina may be Hniezdne.
Forgacs for 143 of them in 43 locations, of the top ten
locations listed none were near Kocise. Mosko 338 finds in 73 locations. Noszaly
5 finds in 1 location, STRÁŽNE, okr.TREBIŠOV. Rabatin 245 finds in 70 locations, two of which are near to
Hniezdne. Petrik is a name of a village, when used with a
surname it is part of a hyphenated name, only three of those. Furman 155 finds
in 54 locations.

It is very common for dates to be off, even by years.
Peasants were illiterate. So things had to be memorized. In Slovakia Name Day is
a bigger event than a birthday. You can only trust what you find in the
records.

From my online searches in Slovakia and Poland, I have found that city and county names have changed often and so have peoples last names. The name changes

Message 14 of 17
, Jul 17, 2015

From my online searches in Slovakia and Poland, I have found that city and county names have changed often and so have peoples' last names. The name changes could be from the handwriting of the person that recorded the name, it not being very legible. Sometimes they are similar and sometimes they are nothing like what we believe them to be. That is part of the fun and the challenge of locating our ancestors. You might want to do an online search for each of the town names, you might find the original and current names. Ancestry.com is a great place to search, but it is not free. Family Search is also a good source and it is free. I have been searching for my Great Grandmothers' family for 6 years and can't find anything. The village or town name is a good place to start, best if you know the region.

In a very short time...we will be visiting Slovakia. We have been doing some research with a little help and a few surprises.

A couple of questions for those more learned. A couple of towns are listed on some naturalization paperwork or my husband's great grandparents.

Some towns listed are Yeratown Czechoslovakia and Hziedzina or Dziedzina, Hungary. I do not recognize these towns. The family was from Backovik (Batyok) and Boliarov (Bolivar) Slovakia.

Dates for births are so random-some are days off from what was expected, other months and years. Is this a common finding?

The same surnames run back and forth in the tree. I have found this in US records but not nearly to the extent I am finding them in Slovakia. It does make research difficult. Is this also a common finding?

Other names we have come across are

Kristoff, Jurcso, Forgacs, Mosko, Noszaly, Burcsak, Rabatin, Petrik, and Furman, just in case anyone else has been researching these names.

Also, anyone who is from the Kosice region or who has visited, is welcome to tell me a little about the area :)

Thank you,

Kimberly Godush

kimberlygodush

I cam across something somewhere (I have lost it now) that gave me the idea that perhaps these two words might translate (by sound if not by spelling) to

Message 15 of 17
, Jul 17, 2015

I cam across something somewhere (I have lost it now) that gave me the idea that perhaps these two words might translate (by sound if not by spelling) to "small town" or "village" -- So, it was like he was answering "A small town in Czechoslovakia" rather than giving the name of a town. They towns from which they came were definitely small towns :).

Here is the problem, in the 1995 database of Slovak locations and my road atlas there are only two locations that begin with a “Dz”. Neither are Dziedzina. There can be a problem of transcription as you pointed out. If your relative was not literate he would have spoken the name and the person would write down what they think they heard. If you have ever listened to Slovak being spoken you know that they speak the alphabet very differently from the English version.

The very apparent town name I pointed not to be Slovak is Yeratown. I did find a Yaratown in Australia. In my road atlas they don’t even have a “Y” listing for towns. It is pronounced as – ih, as they y in rhythm.

You do have Backovik and Bolivar, which are located close to one another. Also relatively close to Kosice.

In genealogy you will come across things that cannot be solved.

In the database you can search surnames. Kristoff had thee finds in two locations. Jurcso is not in the database, the alternative given was Jurco and 7 of the 35 were in
HNIEZDNE,
okr.
STARÁ ĽUBOVŇA– 7×; a strong clue that Dziedzina may be Hniezdne. Forgacs for 143 of them in 43 locations, of the top ten locations listed none were near Kocise. Mosko 338 finds in 73 locations. Noszaly 5 finds in 1 location, STRÁŽNE,
okr.
TREBIŠOV. Rabatin 245 finds in 70 locations, two of which are near to Hniezdne. Petrik is a name of a village, when used with a surname it is part of a hyphenated name, only three of those. Furman 155 finds in 54 locations.

It is very common for dates to be off, even by years. Peasants were illiterate. So things had to be memorized. In Slovakia Name Day is a bigger event than a birthday. You can only trust what you find in the records.

I have both a handwritten and a typed court record. The typed record reads "Dziedzina".

Additionally he filed two declarations of intention. The first in 1924 reads --I was born in Bocikovik, Hungary...my last foreign residence was Dziedzina, Hungary...my wife was born in Dziedzina.

The second from 1927 reads--I was born in Baukovik Czechoslovakia...my last foreign residence was Baukovick Czechoslovakia...my wife was born in Yeratown, Czechoslovakia.

His petition for nauturalization in 1929 reads I was born in Baukovick, Czechoslovakia...my wife was born in Yaratown, Czechoslovakia.

NOW MIND YOU... :) This was probably spoken by a non-English speaker to a non-Slovak speaking clerk. I know that he was born in Backovik, and I have a record that says she was born just north of there in Bolivar/Boliavar, but this issue is bugging me.

I agree, I don't think Yaratown is Slovak, but don't know how it got on two records without it meaning something :(

In a very short time...we will be visiting Slovakia. We have been doing some research with a little help and a few surprises.

A couple of questions for those more learned. A couple of towns are listed on some naturalization paperwork or my husband's great grandparents.

Some towns listed are Yeratown Czechoslovakia and Hziedzina or Dziedzina, Hungary. I do not recognize these towns. The family was from Backovik (Batyok) and Boliarov (Bolivar) Slovakia.

Dates for births are so random-some are days off from what was expected, other months and years. Is this a common finding?

The same surnames run back and forth in the tree. I have found this in US records but not nearly to the extent I am finding them in Slovakia. It does make research difficult. Is this also a common finding?

Other names we have come across are

Kristoff, Jurcso, Forgacs, Mosko, Noszaly, Burcsak, Rabatin, Petrik, and Furman, just in case anyone else has been researching these names.

Also, anyone who is from the Kosice region or who has visited, is welcome to tell me a little about the area :)

Thank you,

Kimberly Godush

Suzanne Bond

To all of you struggling with this phenomena let me share a little story. For years I looked for information on my grandmother. I was told her maiden

Message 16 of 17
, Jul 17, 2015

To all of you struggling with this "phenomena" let me share a little story.

For years I looked for information on my grandmother. I was told her maiden name was Gola. I finally came across an article in my mother's bible of my grandparents' 50th wedding anniversary celebration and it gave the name of the city where they got married. I searched online records for that county in Pennsylvania and found who I thought was my grandfather (although the name wasn't spelled as I knew it I also knew that he had "Americanized" his name when he came to the USA) and the other person's name for the marriage license last name was Golya. When I asked my mother about it she said "Gola - Golya -- what's the difference the both sound the same".

SO, she didn't even know what the correct spelling was of her mother's maiden name! What a breakthrough that was!!!!

From my online searches in Slovakia and Poland, I have found that city and county names have changed often and so have peoples' last names. The name changes could be from the handwriting of the person that recorded the name, it not being very legible. Sometimes they are similar and sometimes they are nothing like what we believe them to be. That is part of the fun and the challenge of locating our ancestors. You might want to do an online search for each of the town names, you might find the original and current names. Ancestry.com is a great place to search, but it is not free. Family Search is also a good source and it is free. I have been searching for my Great Grandmothers' family for 6 years and can't find anything. The village or town name is a good place to start, best if you know the region.

In a very short time...we will be visiting Slovakia. We have been doing some research with a little help and a few surprises.

A couple of questions for those more learned. A couple of towns are listed on some naturalization paperwork or my husband's great grandparents.

Some towns listed are Yeratown Czechoslovakia and Hziedzina or Dziedzina, Hungary. I do not recognize these towns. The family was from Backovik (Batyok) and Boliarov (Bolivar) Slovakia.

Dates for births are so random-some are days off from what was expected, other months and years. Is this a common finding?

The same surnames run back and forth in the tree. I have found this in US records but not nearly to the extent I am finding them in Slovakia. It does make research difficult. Is this also a common finding?

Other names we have come across are

Kristoff, Jurcso, Forgacs, Mosko, Noszaly, Burcsak, Rabatin, Petrik, and Furman, just in case anyone else has been researching these names.

Also, anyone who is from the Kosice region or who has visited, is welcome to tell me a little about the area :)

Thank you,

Kimberly Godush

Tonya Harmon

My family name went through similar changes. It was Suster prior to WWII, then they changed it to Schuster in the late 1930 s to look German so the Nazis

Message 17 of 17
, Jul 17, 2015

My family name went through similar changes. It was Suster prior to WWII, then they changed it to Schuster in the late 1930's to look German so the Nazis wouldn't think they were Jewish, and then to Shuster when they moved to Canada.

To all of you struggling with this "phenomena" let me share a little story.

For years I looked for information on my grandmother. I was told her maiden name was Gola. I finally came across an article in my mother's bible of my grandparents' 50th wedding anniversary celebration and it gave the name of the city where they got married. I searched online records for that county in Pennsylvania and found who I thought was my grandfather (although the name wasn't spelled as I knew it I also knew that he had "Americanized" his name when he came to the USA) and the other person's name for the marriage license last name was Golya. When I asked my mother about it she said "Gola - Golya -- what's the difference the both sound the same".

SO, she didn't even know what the correct spelling was of her mother's maiden name! What a breakthrough that was!!!!

From my online searches in Slovakia and Poland, I have found that city and county names have changed often and so have peoples' last names. The name changes could be from the handwriting of the person that recorded the name, it not being very legible. Sometimes they are similar and sometimes they are nothing like what we believe them to be. That is part of the fun and the challenge of locating our ancestors. You might want to do an online search for each of the town names, you might find the original and current names. Ancestry.com is a great place to search, but it is not free. Family Search is also a good source and it is free. I have been searching for my Great Grandmothers' family for 6 years and can't find anything. The village or town name is a good place to start, best if you know the region.

In a very short time...we will be visiting Slovakia. We have been doing some research with a little help and a few surprises.

A couple of questions for those more learned. A couple of towns are listed on some naturalization paperwork or my husband's great grandparents.

Some towns listed are Yeratown Czechoslovakia and Hziedzina or Dziedzina, Hungary. I do not recognize these towns. The family was from Backovik (Batyok) and Boliarov (Bolivar) Slovakia.

Dates for births are so random-some are days off from what was expected, other months and years. Is this a common finding?

The same surnames run back and forth in the tree. I have found this in US records but not nearly to the extent I am finding them in Slovakia. It does make research difficult. Is this also a common finding?

Other names we have come across are

Kristoff, Jurcso, Forgacs, Mosko, Noszaly, Burcsak, Rabatin, Petrik, and Furman, just in case anyone else has been researching these names.

Also, anyone who is from the Kosice region or who has visited, is welcome to tell me a little about the area :)

Thank you,

Kimberly Godush

--

Tonya Harmon

Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.