No money involved? Surrrrreee. I'v known more than one person in Aikikai (yudansha) and there are definitely money issues, politics (you did't mention that, I know), territorial disputes, and all the normal foibles of human nature that get amplified by being "sensei", nepotism, favoritism, you name it.

I didn't say there was no money involved. I said there isn't enough money in aikido to casuse the kind of commercialism problem that arts like taekwondo have. Very few aikido instructors make any appreciable income from their teaching.

As for all the other things you mentioned, yes, aikido has those, but so does everything else.

I didn't say there was no money involved. I said there isn't enough money in aikido to casuse the kind of commercialism problem that arts like taekwondo have. Very few aikido instructors make any appreciable income from their teaching.

You're saying a lot of stuff that doesn't add up and getting defensive. Don't blame us for pointing it out.

Originally Posted by OwlMatt

As for all the other things you mentioned, yes, aikido has those, but so does everything else.

Keep preaching, while we inch your soapbox closer to the edge of the cliff.

Would "complicated" have been a better word? I don't mean to imply any kind of superiority on the part of aikido.

That generation came and went and we're now several beyond it.

Most middle-aged aikido instructors are people who learned aikido by getting their asses thrown around by cantankerous old Japanese men, not by analyzing and contemplating. It's the younger guys who are teaching hippie mind-aikido. That's my experience, anyway -- what is your experience?

You're being a dumbass.

Remember that next time you want to smack someone and you do it without thinking about it first.

You're being deliberately obtuse here. You know full well that mastering any physical skill requires getting to the point where you don't have to consciously think your way through every step of what you're doing.

Would "complicated" have been a better word? I don't mean to imply any kind of superiority on the part of aikido.

No. I understand you don't mean to imply superiority. But, adding words like "sophisticated" or "complex" or "complicated" is like pouring syrup on ****: it doesn't make it pancakes.

Originally Posted by OwlMatt

Most middle-aged aikido instructors are people who learned aikido by getting their asses thrown around by cantankerous old Japanese men, not by analyzing and contemplating. It's the younger guys who are teaching hippie mind-aikido. That's my experience, anyway -- what is your experience?

My experience is with kung fu, so I know how analyzing and hippie mindsets can impede fighting skills ONLY learned through hard work.

But my point was: you're doing exactly what you accuse them of right now: pontification.

On Bullshido the irony is often rich when a martial artist goes on a complaint rant about martial arts. All more bullshit, byte-for-byte.

You could, on the other hand, SHOW US your good Aikido.

You got on my bad side when you referred to yourself as an "artist and intellectual" and then went on a rant against Hippies and New Agers...

Originally Posted by OwlMatt

You're being deliberately obtuse here. You know full well that mastering any physical skill requires getting to the point where you don't have to consciously think your way through every step of what you're doing.

I'm just being purposefully evasive.

And I completely disagree with your statement both here and above, hence the feedback.

A good martial artist is always consciously aware of every step of what he is doing. This is mindfulness. It is not some Pavlovian stupid human trick. Note I didn't say "thinking about it". I said "aware of".

Originally Posted by OwlMatt

What of what I said is "preaching" and what of what I said "doesn't add up"?

Pretty much your entire rant about the downfall of Aikido. I thought you'd been on Bullshido a while...maybe not long enough to learn.

Originally Posted by OwlMatt

EDIT: And I don't know who this "us" is you're talking about. The people I was actually talking to before you joined in were being perfectly reasonable and I was responding to them in kind.

If you don't know who "us" is, you're fucking delusional and you don't know where the **** you are.

No you're crying and apologizing and defining the goals of martial artists and spouting bullshit about what martial arts are about.

Remember, you lost me when you became an "intellectual", while talking about how intellectualism is ruining Aikido.

Ask yourself: what would Morihei Ueshiba do? He'd STFU and show people what he meant. If you love Aikido so much, do the same.

No. I understand you don't mean to imply superiority. But, adding words like "sophisticated" or "complex" or "complicated" is like pouring syrup on ****: it doesn't make it pancakes.

I'm not trying to make it anything. Some of what I do in the dojo fits my definition of the word complicated.

My experience is with kung fu, so I know how analyzing and hippie mindsets can impeded fighting skills learned through hard work.

But my point was: you're doing exactly what you accuse them of right now: pontification.

No, I am accusing them of using pontification as a substitute for training. People can pontificate all they want for all I care -- just don't waste my time on the mat with it.

On Bullshido the irony is often rich when a martial artist goes on a complaint rant about martial arts. All more bullshit, byte-for-byte.

You could, on the other hand, SHOW US your good Aikido.

Is video evidence required to explain why talking about a martial art is a less effective learning tool than practicing it?

You got on my bad side when you referred to yourself as an "artist and intellectual" and then went on a rant against Hippies and New Agers...

I don't have a problem with hippies and new-agers, and I didn't say anything bad about them. What I said was that a certain demographic (of which I openly admitted to being a member) tends to be drawn to aikido for certain reasons, and that many aikido instructors have started structuring their classes to entertain this demographic rather than to teach an art.

I'm just being purposefully evasive.

And I completely disagree with your statement both here and above, hence the feedback.

A good martial artist is always consciously aware of every step of what he is doing.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on that. Even in the relatively tame context of an aikido randori, I'd be hard-pressed to last more than a few seconds if I was mentally scrolling through a list of techniques and then thinking my way through each technique step-by-step for every attacker.

I'm not trying to make it anything. Some of what I do in the dojo fits my definition of the word complicated.

Such as? Can you show us an example.

Remember when I say "us" I am referring the the Bullshido Collective, not the few people interested in your rambling essays with Steven Seagal as the Third Antichrist and his demonic horde of Hippies out to ruin the legacy of Aikido.

Originally Posted by OwlMatt

No, I am accusing them of using pontification as a substitute for training. People can pontificate all they want for all I care -- just don't waste my time on the mat with it.

Then you are pontificating about pontification being used as a substitute for training. In the same way they use Aikido class as their forum to pontificate, you are here on Bullshido pontificating.

Consider that and...

Originally Posted by OwlMatt

Is video evidence required to explain why talking about a martial art is a less effective learning tool than practicing it?

I think the BEST thing is talking about a martial art WHILE you are practicing it, knowing what you're talking about, and then blasting it into the internet. Hence internets...sharing. I have watched video of people doing crazy martial arts dances in the darkest parts of Africa...what's wrong with asking an Aikidoka who claims to have the real Aikido for video of said Aikido? Hmmphf.

Originally Posted by OwlMatt

I don't have a problem with hippies and new-agers, and I didn't say anything bad about them. What I said was that a certain demographic (of which I openly admitted to being a member) tends to be drawn to aikido for certain reasons, and that many aikido instructors have started structuring their classes to entertain this demographic rather than to teach an art.

So let me get this straight: Many Aikido instructors have started to structure their classes to entertain your demographic. You have the real Aikido.

What's the problem again? Who has a problem?

Originally Posted by OwlMatt

I guess we'll just have to disagree on that. Even in the relatively tame context of an aikido randori, I'd be hard-pressed to last more than a few seconds if I was mentally scrolling through a list of techniques and then thinking my way through each technique step-by-step for every attacker.

You're an aikidoka. You'd be hard pressed to last more than a few seconds, period.

If you don't know who "us" is, you're fucking delusional and you don't know where the **** you are.

Bullshido is not a hive mind and you are not its spokesperson. Your argument is not the same as those of others who have disagreed with me in this thread, and not everyone in this thread disagrees with me (as evidenced by upvotes and by what Doof is saying).

So "us" isn't all of Bullshido, it isn't everyone in this thread, and it isn't even everyone who disagrees with me in this thread. If you have a problem with something I've said, claim credit for it yourself. Don't try to lend credence to your opinion by pretending you're the voice of some collective. You are the voice of W. Rabbit and nothing more.

No. I understand you don't mean to imply superiority. But, adding words like "sophisticated" or "complex" or "complicated" is like pouring syrup on ****: it doesn't make it pancakes.

Like you've never used such words for hung gar.

My experience is with kung fu, so I know how analyzing and hippie mindsets can impede fighting skills ONLY learned through hard work.

So you agree, but from a different style?

But my point was: you're doing exactly what you accuse them of right now: pontification.

And you're pontificating about his pontificating on pontification. But its the Internet and none of us are training while we post, so why get your panties in a bunch?

On Bullshido the irony is often rich when a martial artist goes on a complaint rant about martial arts. All more bullshit, byte-for-byte.

A compliant rant?

You could, on the other hand, SHOW US your good Aikido.

You've been here for years, have you ever posted video of you doing kung fu or sanshou?

You got on my bad side when you referred to yourself as an "artist and intellectual" and then went on a rant against Hippies and New Agers...

Then I'm on your bad side too, cause I'm an artist who hangs out with Burners and I have all sorts of bad things to say about the New Age movement.

A good martial artist is always consciously aware of every step of what he is doing. This is mindfulness. It is not some Pavlovian stupid human trick. Note I didn't say "thinking about it". I said "aware of".

Using the "alphabet of motion" analogy, a good martial artist/writer can write a paragraph without having to recall how to draft each letter.

Pretty much your entire rant about the downfall of Aikido. I thought you'd been on Bullshido a while...maybe not long enough to learn.

I recall an Earth Dragon who took some time to learn too.

If you don't know who "us" is, you're fucking delusional and you don't know where the **** you are.

You're delusional if you think that the thousands of bullies all agree, and that you're the mouthpiece of them.

Remember, you lost me when you became an "intellectual", while talking about how intellectualism is ruining Aikido.

There's a time and a place for it, and its not on the mat, is what he's saying. Don't you agree, mr kung fu/computer expert?

Do you answer direct questions, or do you resort to insults to try and distract the questioner?

Your questions tend to be dramatically incorrect readings of just about anybody's post, because of your past bans and your continual love of derailing conversations I usually regret responding to you at all.

Originally Posted by doofaloofa

I only ask because sparing, especially with regards to striking (or whacking as you so quaintly put it) and standing grappling and throwing is a situation where actions are often not preceded with concious thought

Wow really? So you're going to LEAP from talking about Aikido to asking me about sparring/striking and adding your own definitions and context? Typical doof.

Originally Posted by doofaloofa

For you to make such a claim as you did shows a deep lack of understanding about sparring and of alive martial arts in general