Lakers/Magic Game 4 Chat

I think I should come clean for the many new people here about why I am so confident the Lakers will beat the Magic in this series.

Simply put, my wife isn’t pregnant.

I have three amazing daughters, who I would not trade for anything on the planet. Not for 15 more Lakers championships I get to watch sitting next to Jack Nicholson. But the birth of my children has come at the expense of the Lakers. Let me break it down:

• Daughter #1, born during the 2004 NBA Finals, when Detroit beat the Lakers.

• Daughter #2, we went into the hospital in 2006 with the Lakers looking good, they would take a 3-1 series lead against Phoenix in the first round. They lost the series in 7.

• Daughter #3 born during last year’s Finals loss to the Celtics.

This year, no baby coming (not going to be any more, either). Ergo, the bad luck karma of me watching games on those little hospital televisions is gone. Nothing now stands between the Lakers and another banner.

Well, save for the Magic.

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Great post over at the LA Times Lakers Blog today with assistant coach Brian Shaw talking about playing with Kobe that is a must read:

He’s getting better at sensing when the team needs for him to come out and be aggressive right away, and I think that end-game situations we sometimes become predictable. The ball is going to be in his hands, and he’s going to call Pau (Gasol) or somebody out to set a screen and roll, and we just kind of stand around and wait to see what he’s going to do. I think we need to mix it up a little bit more, but then again, that’s kind of the blessing and the curse of having him.

What I mean by that is, because he is so good, he can a lot of times beat two and three defenders that you put on him. And then at the same time that can be a curse, because then it takes the other guys out of rhythm when they’re open. If it’s five guys on the court you want them to do the right thing. If two people are on one player, it means that somebody else is open and the ball is supposed to find him. So we feel like it will all hash itself out. And we point it out to him when we watch film, “Hey, this guy was open,” and “Hey, that guy was open.” and then there’s times when they were open and he hits a miraculous shot. So it’s kind of one of those Catch-22 things.

Tonight, I think we see some good decisions when the pressure is on. And I just have a good feeling about this one.

Good win. Despite everything that went against us, including the refs and our own horrible decisions on offense, we inched out a win. When you’ve been knocked down and nearly knocked out, and still get back up and fight back and eventually win… that’s what champions do.

what a game! i havent been this happy about our team since kobes first ring. how about d-fish!?!?! i guess phil knows a little bit more about his players than we do :). amazing… and by the way. i love when kobe gets pissed, but seing pau go off at pietrus made my day. classic!

I don’t even think Kobe got away with anything on that. They show the replay and Nelson practically runs into Kobe’s elbow, but I agree with #592 anyway. For how the Lakers were totally jobbed in the 4th and OT by the officials, they earned that one “no-call”.

Pietrus should be suspended for that hit in the back. Two hammer fists in the back to Gasol is not a basketball move or a play on the basketball, and Gasol was in the air. Those fists would work in MMA but not basketball.

Sweet, sweet redemption for Fisher. Doesn’t change the awful decision making we saw the last couple rounds, but we got here anyway and now we’re up 3-1 because of him.

Kobe passed to Fish when he would not pass to anyone. Too much Kobe-centric poor jumpshot offense, but the stories will be based off the results, and so this is the rare case of a role player deflecting criticism from Kobe.

Ariza first put us in the situation for Fish to be a hero, he keyed everything in the 3rd.

Unsung hero of the game: Sasha Vujacic. OK, maybe there’s only so much redemption you can have at 1 time.

This game is proof as to why we keep the faith in our players. This game is proof as to why we don’t bury our own guys; we don’t throw our own guys under the bus. Because our faith is rewarded. Everyone under the sun was calling for Phil to bench Fisher and play more Shannon Brown (myself included). Tell me, does anyone honestly believe that anyone outside of Bryant could have made those two shots other than Fisher? Through all his struggles, all the 1-8, 1-7 shooting games, our coaching staff kept the faith in Fisher. Even when he was getting crushed by Deron Williams, Aaron Brooks, Chauncey Billups, and Rafer Alston, the coaching still kept calling his number, sending him in during crunch time, sending him to battle when the games were on the line. And for their faith, they were rewarded with the most crucial victory of the season, delivered to us by one and only Derek FIsher. This is the stuff of legends; the stuff that only becomes more endearing when you’ve lived through his struggles as we all have.

Kobe just needs to stay in the post all game long. The Magic just can’t defend him at all in that position. More post ups are needed for Gasol and Odom along with Bynum. Gortat is probably their best low post defender while everybody else is “meh.” The Lakers need to stay with the inside game and I kinda think they will in Game 5, as they will be much calm and relax while bringing the energy and effort to close out the series.

Fisher will get all the props he deserves, but the game ball goes to Ariza tonight. On top of his 3rd-quarter outburst and his usual hustle plays, don’t forget he made a HUGE 3 on a broken play to tie the game at 82 in the last couple minutes.

chris, I’m sorry, but you’re just coming off as immature now. You’re going to call me out when nearly every single person on this forum and just about every Lakers fan alive was down on Fish? It ever occur to you the reason we were down on Fish was because of how poorly he was playing at that time?

I said it then, but you simply ignored it. I predicted Fish would likely hit a clutch 3 at some point. I also said it didn’t negate the damage he did in the last 2 series. We got to the Finals in spite of Fish, and now we’re up 3-1 because of it. I gave Fish plenty of props in my last post (held for moderation right now).

YESSSSSSSSSS FISH WITH THE CLUTCH PUJIT TO WIN IT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A season’s worth of horrible horrible PUJITs, all practice for the final, determining moment of the series. I love you Derek Fisher.

651 – I wouldn’t call that a PUJIT. That was a good, intelligent, normal shot. We needed a 3 and Nelson, for some reason, was backing up. Fish took the right shot in that situation, I see a PUJIT more as a poor transition choice when you should actually drive the ball.

we wouldn’t have won had it not for us dominating possession down the stretch – Ariza with a big board and then Gasol drawing the foul on Nelson. Just goes to show that aside from Howard, they don’t have good rebounders on that team.

And how satisfying was it to see Rafer revert to the mean tonight? missed drives and turnovers galore

Darius, I think you’re right about that 2 fist hit in the back by Petrius, I think that will be reviewed by the league and warrant a suspension. that’s punk and shouldn’t be allowed in basketball. I also like the reaction by pau, he didn’t back away at all.

I have to admit that I was already getting my head around us losing this game at halftime, just couldn’t imagine us pulling it out, the Magic were just playing too tough, and we seemed way out of it…
and the refs weren’t helping either

so I casually told my wife we’d have to outscore them in the 3rd === 30 to 10 and I was close, eh? (30 to 14)
from there it was probably one of the most exciting games ever!
having to have some tea with honey cause we’ve been yelling SOOOOOO much since the second half.
wow…what a friggin’ game.
against the odds, since they had the zebras on their side too.
wow….

The elbow by Kobe at the end shouldn’t be a flagrant. It looked as if Kobe was already bringing his arms up for the pass. The ball-handler should be entitled to his space too, shouldn’t he? Kobe brought his arms up and passed it to Fisher in one motion. It wasn’t as if he swung his arms, hit Nelson, paused and set his arms for the pass, then throw the ball out. I thought it was a good no-call.

and for all the flak Kobe is bound to take for his offensive struggles, I thought tonight was a first-team all defensive performance from him. Aggressively fronting bigger players to deny the easy catch, boxing out Howard, stripping the ball from them in the paint, crashing the glass – every effort so needed in a close, close game.

some observations from S. Korea having only tracked the game via the box score; FISH!!!! Great second half from Ariza. Looks like Kobe was trying to force things a little bit. Glad to see Jordan doing alright. Gutty win….I wish the Lakers would play more man-to-man though. Fine, let Howard beat us, but these other guys….geez…..put a body on them. Anyway…….great, tough-minded win…..and I think I should name a child Derek!

Turkoglu in the postgame interview looks like he wants to crawl in a hole. I feel bad actually, they made some awesome baskets (especially turk) but 1 free throw would have sealed it.

Also, I don’t believe for a SECOND that Kobe’s was a callable elbow. He didn’t lead with it, his arm was all but vertical, he was just swiveling within his own space. Mark Jackson saying he “got away” with incidental contact is just being inflammatory.

The Magic is a very likable team. They’re all nice guys, they play hard and clean and aside from that shoving punch by Pietrus on Pau I don’t think they’ve committed a dirty foul yet. They get away with a lot and they take advantage of that–that’s not dirty, that’s just smart.

I like that. I like that we’re playing a team it’s easy to like and respect.

watching the replay off Kobe’s elbow, Kobe began swinging the ball over before Nelson got there. Nelson ran over and crowded him as he swung the ball over. If he was there before kobe started swinging the ball then it would have been an offensive foul, but he wasn’t. He practically ran into Kobe’s elbow.

Kurt, may I just say that you are quite a Zen apprentice (only PJ can be the master). You’ve been demonstrating a calm, cool confidence lately, even through the first half of this game when many were throwing fits on this board. I’d like to consider myself in the same sandbox as you.

Through all the poor shooting nights and quicker PGs blowing past him, I’m sorry to admit I lost a good deal of faith in D Fish. But I knew he would hit a clutch 3 at some point in these playoffs (and I posted back in April that he would). I love that bald-headed genius.

I grew up watching the Lakers in the 80s with my family — watching Magic and Kareem cemented my love for the team. These days I don’t watch too many games on TV any more, and I was doing my gardening outside while listening to the game on the radio. But I finally came inside and pulled my three kids in to watch the overtime, and even though they never watch basketball, they were instantly huge Laker fans and loved every second of it. Such a thrill to pass along the excitement to my kids, and a great night to do it.

You know, I disagree with a lot of this postgame. They talk about how the Magic dont know how to close games out….Bullcrap! They won a lot of close games in their other series and they won a close one in game 3. And they had this one…they made big shots. The reason why they lost this game is because Howard choked from the free throw line. Then in overtime, they were obviously to demoralized to be able to win the game. Lakers are fortunate they won this game, but hey, we will take it!!

I think Pietrus is going to get hit with a flagrant 1. I don’t think it deserved a 2, and anyway the league is never going to suspend him for a game over it. Wouldn’t be surprised though if the gave Kobe a flagrant 1 also since there shouldn’t be any suspension (just means he can’t do another one). Not because the elbow deserved it – it didn’t – but just because it’s an easy PR move for the league since it will make the entire Laker-hating world happy while at the same time having no bearing on the outcome of the series which has got to be beyond a 90% chance for the Lakers to win.

So as I’m watching Derek Fisher answer questions at the podium I keep thinking that when Stan Van Gundy said experience doesn’t matter, he was so, so, wrong. The calm, clear, mature approach… what he was thinking and how he was acting after he made that shot to tie the game in regulation. “Best case scenario, we’ll play another five minutes.” Beautiful. That’s why we need a veteran like him on the team. Not only because he is not in complete awe of Kobe and won’t just defer to him out of reverence, but because he is the calm and thinking guy.

Did anyone else notice after that foul situation early in the game where Bynum was fouled hard and was about to lose his temper? Fisher literally grabbed his arm, pulled him away, and talked him down, and kept Bynum from getting a T and becoming rattled to the point where he would no longer have been effective.

And for the record, Derek: I apologize for a lot of the things I have been saying about you in the past couple of months. Thanks for proving me and everyone else wrong.

I’m going to call myself out. Late in the fourth, Jameer made a nice crossover, got into the lane, and dished to Howard for the score. I yelled “Get Fish out of there, he can’t stay in front of him!”

.04 vs. 4.6? Discuss.

I need to spend some quality time with that box score to figure out how Lakers won that game.

Forgot all the ref stuff, enjoy being a fan and how much fun that was. The agony of Lakers blowing assignments late (on pick and rolls they couldn’t decide to cover Turk – who played fantastic – or Howard), the utter joy of an Ariza 3 with the shot clock expiring, Fish!!! and Kobe. Not Kobe scoring, but battling for rebounds and fouling Dwight to give us a chance to tie. And Pau standing up for himself.

“Kobe Bryant led the Lakers with 32 points and eight assists, his 63rd career 30-point playoff game (most among active players). He has recorded eight or more assists in six straight playoff games, becoming the second Laker (Magic Johnson) to accomplish the feat.”

I know it’s controversial, but I’m going to say that experience really does NOT matter, at least not much. The reason you see experienced guys like Fish performing so well in these spots is because they are just the kind of people who are cut out for it from the start. It’s selection bias. The only guys you see in the finals who have lots of finals experience are guys who must have had what it took even back before they had experience, or they would never have gotten the experience in the first place!

Fish doesn’t perform well at the end of big playoff games because he’s experienced. He’s experienced because he plays well at the end of big playoff games!

Third Quarter Collapse is pretty steamed about the refs too – gotta say that while I disagree with their specific assessments, one thing Laker and Magic fans can agree on is that the refs pretty much blow chunks. That said, the Magic gave the game away. I feel bad for them b/c I too like the team and wouldn’t mind seeing them win if they weren’t playing the Lakers. That said, let’s get our rings before D. Howard starts developing some real post moves b/c ORL is only getting better the next few seasons

By the way, going back and watching some of this, I absolutely love watching Pau Gasol play every single minute of the game. Not just the offensive end. I love watching him compete on defense.

One thing I really liked: on the PnR, instead of passing directly to Dwight, Hedo usually swings the ball to Lewis (or any Magic player on the strong side) who finds Howard with deep post position. What Pau did effectively: after recovering, instead of wasting time trying to battle Dwight (who already had deep position), he essentially fronted Dwight and cut off the entry pass from Lewis. Very simple, but an effective way of stopping the Magic’s PnR->corner->post pass sequence.

@688 harold: Game 5 being a freebie means just the opposite. Instead of resting Kobe what it means is that Kobe is just going to go and try to close out the series with 40 or 50 to put a big finish on his first Finals MVP. If it doesn’t work, no biggie, he can go back to doing what’s best for the team in LA. But so far in the Lakers two close wins you have one game where everyone’s going to focus on Gasol+Odom as hero and the other where Fish was the hero. Kobe is series MVP no question, but you know he wants to go out there and make a statement and some gaudy numbers to go with the picture of him holding two trophies in the air.

Loved what Fisher said to the guys after the game about the 2000 Finals and Game 5 in Indiana. The players need to come out focused and sharp.

As a fan, though…I’m starting to smell it now. After all the ups and downs, the search for the perfect defense, the fear as Boston started off at a historic pace, the XMas game, the Bynum injury, the cries of “no intensity!”, the Game 7 do-or-die against Houston, the gritty Game 3 win in Denver, to finally have made it here. 48 minutes separate us from the title we’ve been starving for 7 years. So damn close.

I like Pietrus and don’t think he’s a dirty player or a bad guy. That play, however, was everything a Flagrant 2 is. Excessive contact, no play on the ball, unnecessary. He should be suspended, no question. I didn’t think it was bad the first time, but replays showed he just lit into Pau with both forearms.

Yeah the Pietrus foul looks worse the more I see it. He wound up with both hands and slammed Pau when he was already up on the rim, like Pau was a gong. I usually like him but that was BS- and what is he screaming back at Pau for after the fact?

I survived another heart attack tonight, thanks to the Lakers I have been recovering OK. Good time for the Magic to miss their FT’s and Ariza came through at just the right time for us, oh and let’s not forget…

Enjoy the moment for what it is… “Life is fast and things happen quickly.” – Derek Fisher

I don’t think he will be suspended, and I’m okay with it. Pau is a big boy and he stayed on his feet. If he’d been a little guard and got upended, it would’ve been a suspension for sure. Now by rules, it shouldn’t matter; but in practice, that’s how it is. And I’m ok with it, because I think it was mostly frustration and not malice.

Now D Jones deliberately tripping Kobe, THAT should’ve been a suspension.

Some people are hammering Kobe for his poor shooting, etc. in the Finals. Now, I’m not a huge proponent of the MJ/Kobe comparisons, but look at MJ’s statline from the 1998 finals compared to Kobe’s this year: