Keaton, Louise

ORAL HISTORY OF LOUISE KEATON
Interviewed by Keith McDaniel
September 5, 2013
MR. MCDANIEL: This is Keith McDaniel and it's September 5, 2013, and I am at the home of Louise Keaton in Crossville, out here on the beautiful Lake Tansi. Mrs. Keaton, thank you so much for taking time to talk with us.
MRS. KEATON: It's my pleasure.
MR. MCDANIEL: Why don't we start at the beginning? Why don't you tell me where you were born and raised?
MRS. KEATON: I was born in Pikeville, Bledsoe County, Tennessee. And I was born in 1926. I lived there until I graduated high school and then went to Oak Ridge to work.
MR. MCDANIEL: So you grew up in Bledsoe County?
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: What did your mother and father do?
MRS. KEATON: My daddy, they had a small farm and my daddy drove a school bus part of the time and my mother, of course, was just a housewife.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, did you have brothers and sisters?
MRS. KEATON: I do. Well, they're all gone now. I had one brother and I had four sisters.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, my.
MRS. KEATON: There were six of us. I was the youngest.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. So did y'all have to work on the farm?
MRS. KEATON: Well, it was a small farm, but we did. It was in kind of a poor portion of Bledsoe County and, the time I grew up, we had no electricity.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MRS. KEATON: No. We just did what we had to do to make a living.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you have running water in the house?
MRS. KEATON: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, it really was kind of rustic, wasn't it?
MRS. KEATON: It was very rustic.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, did you live close enough to the school to walk?
MRS. KEATON: I did. I lived real close to the school. And then in 1942, there were two high schools in Bledsoe County and I lived in the upper part of the valley, or the county, I should say, and there were very few students so they combined the schools and in 1942, I moved -- our school moved to Bledsoe County High School.
MR. MCDANIEL: I'm going to pause for just a second because I need to sneeze. So, hold on.
MRS. KEATON: Ok, go right...
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, so, I apologize, I had to blow my nose. So, you moved into the new school in Bledsoe County when they formed the...
MRS. KEATON: It actually was not a new school but it was...
MR. MCDANIEL: But they consolidated...
MRS. KEATON: But they consolidated, only had one high school.
MR. MCDANIEL: What grade were you in when that happened?
MRS. KEATON: I was a sophomore in high school.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, all right. So you went through there and you got through high school.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: And what year did you graduate?
MRS. KEATON: I graduated in April of 1944.
MR. MCDANIEL: April of 1944.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, how did you know about Oak Ridge?
MRS. KEATON: Well, of course, we knew about the Secret City.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: But a gentleman in a service uniform came to the school when I was a senior and recruited the senior girls to work at Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. KEATON: So I was hired at that time and I had to wait until I was 18, so I had to wait until May.
MR. MCDANIEL: May of '4-...'44?
MRS. KEATON: May of '44.
MR. MCDANIEL: May of '44.
MRS. KEATON: And then I went directly to Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, how did you get there? Did you ride a bus or train or?
MRS. KEATON: No, they came and got me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, they did?
MRS. KEATON: Yes, a young man in a, I think it was just an automobile, came and got me. Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Came and got you.
MRS. KEATON: Mmm-hmm.
MR. MCDANIEL: They needed people to work, didn't they?
MRS. KEATON: They really did, yes. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: So you go, you just turned 18.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Just graduated high school.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: You... they come and get you and take you to Oak Ridge. Tell me about that; tell me what you remember about that.
MRS. KEATON: Ok, at that particular time, my sister was working at Oak Ridge and she lived in a flat top, one of the flat tops. I can't remember where we lived but I moved in with her for a while and then, a little bit later, she and her husband bought a place in Kingston.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. KEATON: And, at that time, I moved into a dormitory.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, what was she doing there at Oak Ridge?
MRS. KEATON: You know, I really don't know. She worked in some kind of a lab.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did she?
MRS. KEATON: Yes. She had a pretty good job.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did she?
MRS. KEATON: Uh-huh. And she had been there since, I think, '42.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, so she got there early.
MRS. KEATON: Mmm-hmm, yes. And her husband worked at Oak Ridge... K-25, I'm sorry.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see. So, you get there... and you drive through the gates. What do you remember seeing?
MRS. KEATON: Well, of course, I was a young, naive country girl.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: And I remember all the guards and the guardhouse and just so many buildings being constructed. It was really muddy, you know, didn't have sidewalks.
MR. MCDANIEL: You didn't have paved streets, did you?
MRS. KEATON: No. Not at all.
MR. MCDANIEL: They used gravel on a lot of the streets.
MRS. KEATON: And when we got there, it was just getting dark, I do remember that. And I moved in and I don't remember very much about training. It seems to me like we went directly to work in a few days. I know we had to have a physical and all that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Some ladies will remember being talked to, the young ladies being talked to about the way they dressed and the way they acted around the men and things such as that. Do you remember anything like that?
MRS. KEATON: I do not remember that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, well, maybe it was just them. (laughs)
MRS. KEATON: Well, you know, that's been so long and I don't remember that and it seem like I do remember that we had to be processed, I guess. I had to get a badge number and we had physicals and it seem like I just went directly to work.
MR. MCDANIEL: Went directly to work. And so you went to work at Y-12 and you worked as what?
MRS. KEATON: Calutron. We called them cubicles.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. A cubicle operator.
MRS. KEATON: As a cubicle operator, uh-huh.
MR. MCDANIEL: Which was the control panel for a calutron.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Do you remember the name of the building that you worked in?
MRS. KEATON: No, I sure don't.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was it...? Do you remember if it was a big calutron or the... I mean, there were some that were like eight feet and some that were like 16 feet.
MRS. KEATON: Oh, yeah, oh yeah. They were big. They were on each side of a long aisle.
MR. MCDANIEL: Then you were in an Alpha, which was the biggest ones.
MRS. KEATON: The big ones, yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: The smaller ones were in kind of an oval shape and the Alpha ones were two rows.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: And the control panels was between the rows.
MRS. KEATON: Ok, I remember that I operated four.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MRS. KEATON: Two on each side of the aisle. And I remember my badge number.
MR. MCDANIEL: What was it?
MRS. KEATON: 18157.
MR. MCDANIEL: 18157.
MRS. KEATON: Which is ironic because I can't remember my phone number. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, I can barely remember what I had for breakfast, so don't worry about that. I had a friend of mine, we were at a birthday party, he says, "You know, I can remember what happened 40 years ago but not what happened five minutes ago."
MRS. KEATON: Absolutely. I know the feeling, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you worked there, do you remember... Is there any specific memories you have of that, any incidences any people that stand out in your mind?
MRS. KEATON: I remember my supervisor was a sergeant and I could remember his name up until a few years ago but I cannot... I think it was Kilgore.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really, ok.
MRS. KEATON: But I remember when we went to work, of course, we had to be searched before we went into the building.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: And then we changed clothes into a uniform, blue uniform. Then, when we came out, we left that uniform and it was laundered and ready for us for the next shift. I remember the girls that I worked with, it was fun. I remember the cubicles. They were kind of -- sometimes you'd have flurries, what we called flurries and you had to keep operating and adjusting knobs so that you could make good readings.
MR. MCDANIEL: Do you remember they told you about... I know you said they put you right to work, but they probably had to train you to a certain degree.
MRS. KEATON: Well, the readings should be, you know, as high as we could get 'em.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: And if they got out of control, we operated a knob between them and got them back. And they would make terrible noises.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MRS. KEATON: When they would get into 'flurries.'
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MRS. KEATON: I do remember that in the back of each one of the cubicles or calutrons, there was a small window and we were told never to look in that window.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really.
MRS. KEATON: Mmm-hmm. And I remember what we called The Pit.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. KEATON: Was probably the race track.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. KEATON: And sometimes, we had to work there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MRS. KEATON: And I hated that 'cause it was scary.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was it really?
MRS. KEATON: Yeah. We had to go in to it, it was down, you know, and make operations in there. I didn't like to go in there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MRS. KEATON: But we didn't have to do that very often.
MR. MCDANIEL: But you did have to be careful about what you wore in there. I mean, you couldn't have any jewelry or watches.
MRS. KEATON: Oh, no! No watches, no jewelry, we had, of course, we had to wear our badge, but nothing, you know, jewelry or anything like that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly. Do you remember a line, a red line that was painted on the floor that says, "Don't get any closer to this" or anything like that? That might have been -- I know in one of the beta buildings they had that.
MRS. KEATON: It might be. I don't remember that. We sat on stools and, you know, we were back and forth across aisle operating the different calutrons.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. KEATON: And I don't remember -- I think that when you would go, one day you would operate certain ones and the next day you usually operated the same ones.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh, sure.
MRS. KEATON: Kind of got used to them.
MR. MCDANIEL: The ... So, did you work shift work? Tell me about that.
MRS. KEATON: I did. We changed shifts every week.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MRS. KEATON: Mmm-hmm.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, wow.
MRS. KEATON: Seven to three, three to eleven, eleven to seven.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh.
MRS. KEATON: And I liked the three to eleven better because you didn't have to get up so early and you had time to do things, you know, before you went to work. The eleven to seven wasn't much fun.
MR. MCDANIEL: I'm sure it wasn't. Well, with people coming and going 24 hours a day I'm sure it was hard to get sleep during the daytime, anyway.
MRS. KEATON: It was. Well, yes, I know when we got off work, we rode buses, you know, back and forth to work, and you'd be so tired and so sleepy and you could never get a seat. You always had to stand up. And I remember standing and holding on to the ceiling, you know, trying to work.
MR. MCDANIEL: Just trying to ...
MRS. KEATON: And sometimes it would be hard to go to sleep because you'd be all excited or if you'd had a hard shift work or something. Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Now, how many, in the row that you worked, how many young ladies were there? You remember, about?
MRS. KEATON: Oh, there were a lot, because those calutrons were, you know, just side by side all down those aisles. Oh, I guess... maybe 30 or 40 operators. I don't remember.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, were most of them young ladies like yourself?
MRS. KEATON: Right. Uh-huh. One of our supervisors was an older lady. She was probably in her 40s and she operated a calutron, but she would kind of come back and forth and check on us. She was really a supervisor. But the personnel, the Army personnel were the ones that came around and checked the dials and our readings and all.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. You know, you know, the story about why they chose young women for that job, don't you? Have you ever heard that? Instead of the older men, the more experienced scientists?
MRS. KEATON: I have heard that, usually, the country girls, or the hillbilly girls didn't ask a lot of questions, did what they were asked to do and probably did better than the scientists. That's what I have heard.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's what I've heard, too, because the scientists, they were always messing with things, trying to get it better and they usually mess it up. And the ladies were there and they did what they were told and kept the needle in a certain range and, you're right, they're probably a little intimidated by the whole situation so didn't want to cause any trouble.
MRS. KEATON: Yeah. I know that once you got your machines, you know, going really, really good, then you could keep them running. You know, you finally knew how to do that. And, I guess, that was one of the reasons maybe that we were good operators.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. Now, when you came in on a shift, were the machines continuously running and you just kind of took over?
MRS. KEATON: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Or did you have to start up again?
MRS. KEATON: No, they would be running from the previous shift.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, I see.
MRS. KEATON: You just took over.
MR. MCDANIEL: And my understanding was about every 100 hours they would have to shut down to retrieve the material.
MRS. KEATON: Yeah, the heat boxes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, the heat boxes, and then they would have to start back up. Was that difficult?
MRS. KEATON: I think that they started them back.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did they? I see.
MRS. KEATON: I can't remember exactly, but I remember when they would shut down, you would call and they would come and take them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MRS. KEATON: I think they were set up for a certain amount of time.
MR. MCDANIEL: So what was life like in Oak Ridge? You were a young, as you said, country girl, probably hadn't been exposed to a lot of things, you know, like you were in Oak Ridge.
MRS. KEATON: It was fun. We had fun. For the first time in my life I had money and independence and we had lots of friends, you know, and there were lots of young service people there -- you didn't have any trouble getting a date.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MRS. KEATON: In order to keep us happy, I guess, they had lots of dances and they had a huge skating rink. They tried to keep us happy so we'd stay there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. And occupied.
MRS. KEATON: Right. And you were talking about the Playhouse that was a movie theater. We went to movies and bowled.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, I think they had four movie theaters and four or five bowling alleys and, you know, like you said, all kinds of activities. I know they had all kinds of sports leagues and teams, you know, things such as that.
MRS. KEATON: And occasionally we'd go to Knoxville by bus and go to shop or whatever, you know. Ball games. We went to some of the UT ball games. But we had a... I had a good time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, you were young and single and in a new place and, like you said, had a little pocket money, you know, might as well enjoy it while you could.
MRS. KEATON: That's right. Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: What did ... what did you young ladies think? Did you know? I mean, did you have any idea of what Oak Ridge was about?
MRS. KEATON: I didn't. And I can't remember that it bothered me. I had a job and I knew it was something that was helping the war effort.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: I had a sister that was in the Air Force as an RN. My brother was in Germany and I felt like I was doing something to help, you know. And I really didn't worry about it too much.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. Well, that was most people, if it was the war effort then, and the government didn't want to tell us, they were smarter than we were.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, they were... they used to be smarter than us.
MRS. KEATON: Right. And I guess I just trusted them, that what we were doing was right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, that was the way people were during World War II.
MRS. KEATON: Right, that was it. And I had a lot of friends that, high school friends, which were in the service, you know, so.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you? Now had you lost any of your friends in the war at that point?
MRS. KEATON: I had. I had dated a boy when I was, like, a junior in high school and he went to the Navy and he was killed.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, my. So that made it ...
MRS. KEATON: It was traumatic, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was traumatic. And I imagine with your brother and sister in the service it was important for you, not only to have a job, but to do something that you felt like you were doing something, wasn't it?
MRS. KEATON: That's right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Do you remember going to any of the tennis court dances?
MRS. KEATON: Oh, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: What were they like?
MRS. KEATON: They were fun! They were really fun! Yeah! That was one of the good entertainments we had.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: And they had them real often.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. Tell me about food. Now, you lived with your sister, so did you eat at home, usually, or did you go to the cafeterias or what?
MRS. KEATON: When we were not working, you know, like off, you know, for... we cooked. But when we worked, of course, we got a lunch break and we ate in the cafeterias. And then when I moved into a dormitory, of course, we had to eat in the cafeterias.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, which dormitory did you live in, or about where was it located?
MRS. KEATON: It was located, I guess, down toward Solway.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. KEATON: But I cannot remember the name. I just can't. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Now which... was there a cafeteria down there?
MRS. KEATON: There was a cafeteria close and I don't even remember what it was.
MR. MCDANIEL: Down near Solway, huh...
MRS. KEATON: Well, in that direction.
MR. MCDANIEL: In that direction, yeah.
MRS. KEATON: Right, yeah. But there were a lot of dorms, a lot of them, but I was only in one.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. Now was it close to... were there more than one dormitory in that general area?
MRS. KEATON: Yes, uh-huh... But we could... It might have not been there, I don't know. We could walk to the cafeteria but we had to get a bus to go to town site.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see, yeah. Yeah, it was probably out ... going out of Oak Ridge towards Solway area.
MRS. KEATON: Uh-huh, I remember it was on the right, going out and I can't remember the name.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's all right. That's quite all right.
MRS. KEATON: That's a long time ago.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's a long time ago and there's none of those that are left. None of the dormitories that are left.
MRS. KEATON: Is that right?
MR. MCDANIEL: I think there may be one that may still be standing, but yeah, most of them are gone.
MRS. KEATON: I had a room, just a private room...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MRS. KEATON: ... for ... I paid $15 a month and I had maid service. But I guess that was because they wanted to make sure that if you had any of the uranium on you, it could be retrieved. I don't know why we had maid service.
MR. MCDANIEL: Maybe. Maybe it was just somebody kind of checking in on everybody, too.
MRS. KEATON: Yeah, I don't know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, how much did you make? Do you remember?
MRS. KEATON: Yes. I think I started out at 70 cents an hour.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. KEATON: That's the best I remember.
MR. MCDANIEL: So that would be... $30... That'd be $120 a month? $120-130 a month?
MRS. KEATON: Well we were paid every two weeks and every two weeks, I had money to, I helped my sister with the rent and then I always bought a war bond, we called them war bonds, every paycheck.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? So how much did the war bond cost?
MRS. KEATON: Seem like it was $17 if you bought like a... I don't know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow, wow...
MRS. KEATON: Yeah, it wasn't all that much, but I can't remember.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, what did you do with those war bonds?
MRS. KEATON: I kept them and after we got married, we needed the money and we cashed them in.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, that was a pretty good savings account for you, wasn't it?
MRS. KEATON: Yeah, I had some savings and also helped my parents.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.
MRS. KEATON: They needed, you know, some help so I helped them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, absolutely. Well, so... Do you remember the cafeteria food? Did you like it?
MRS. KEATON: It wasn't bad. It wasn't bad. I mean, after a while you kind of, it was kind of repetitious.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, of course.
MRS. KEATON: But it wasn't bad.
MR. MCDANIEL: I interviewed one lady and she grew up on a farm and she said, "I just couldn't stand those powdered eggs." She says, "I was used to farm fresh eggs." She says, "I think I lost about 15 pounds the first year I was there because I couldn't stand the cafeteria food."
MRS. KEATON: Yeah, I don't remember it being too bad. And then, of course, when I was living with my sister, you know, we just cooked normally.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, but you couldn't find... There were certain things you couldn't get.
MRS. KEATON: Absolutely.
MR. MCDANIEL: So tell me about that.
MRS. KEATON: Well, coffee was rationed and sugar was rationed and a lot of things were, you know, meat and things. And of course, shoes were rationed, of course, that wasn't a food, but ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MRS. KEATON: But we were OK.
MR. MCDANIEL: Do you remember standing in lines to get stuff?
MRS. KEATON: Oh, my goodness. When you saw a line, you just automatically got in it. (laughs) Because it had to be going where you needed to be.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: They were everywhere and you just kind of got used to it. You just stood in line.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly. And you rode the bus, you rode the bus system.
MRS. KEATON: We rode the buses, yeah, to and from. And, when I would come home, I would ride the train from Knoxville... I mean from Oak Ridge to Crossville.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. KEATON: And then somebody would pick me up.
MR. MCDANIEL: Somebody would pick you up. Now, how far was it from your home to the train station in Crossville?
MRS. KEATON: To Crossville... Oh, from... Hmmmm... it was about 15 miles.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok. So it wasn't a terribly long...
MRS. KEATON: No, it wasn't bad, uh-uh.
MR. MCDANIEL: ... long drive. That's good. So you stayed there until...? You stayed in Oak Ridge until when?
MRS. KEATON: 1946. And I left because I got married.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, so you were there in '45 when the bombs were dropped.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: When the war ended.
MRS. KEATON: Uh-huh.
MR. MCDANIEL: Tell me, what do you remember about that?
MRS. KEATON: I remember when the war was over, you know, that we had a big celebration. And we were out in the street all night long and it was very patriotic, very, very, very noisy, but after we found out, you know, about the bomb, we continued to work, but it wasn't like it was before. And I remember in ... 1945 was when the war was over, August, yeah. And I stayed on until 1946.
MR. MCDANIEL: 1946. And the ... but they were kind of shutting things down.
MRS. KEATON: They were shutting things down and I was transferred ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Because K-25 was coming online and it was more efficient than the calutrons.
MRS. KEATON: They were closing down and I was transferred to another department.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, were you?
MRS. KEATON: It was a smaller place and we operated just kind of small machines.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was it the same kind of thing, though? Was it...?
MRS. KEATON: I don't know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok. But it was the same kind of control?
MRS. KEATON: No, it was just smaller, they were individual and they were by themselves.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see. So you stayed there until you got married?
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, where did you meet your husband?
MRS. KEATON: Well, he was a local boy... I mean, he was...
MR. MCDANIEL: From where you were from...
MRS. KEATON: ...from where I was from. He was... We lived close to each other, about two miles from each other, but didn't date until I started working at Oak Ridge. He had been in a real bad accident, an automobile accident when he was at UT [University of Tennessee] as a student.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. KEATON: And he had a really bad leg. His leg was broken and he had to stay in the hospital about a year.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, wow.
MRS. KEATON: So he was not eligible for service so he was operating the farm, his family's farm. And when I would go home from Oak Ridge, you know, then we started dating.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. Now, how long did y'all date?
MRS. KEATON: Well, I guess we started dating in probably 194-... Probably a couple of years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, right, right. I understand. Then y'all decided to get married.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: And you moved back to Bledsoe County?
MRS. KEATON: Yes, uh-huh.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. KEATON: And then, eventually, in about a year, we moved to Cumberland County.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. The ... And you never went back to Oak Ridge to work, did you?
MRS. KEATON: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: Never went... Now what did your sister do?
MRS. KEATON: I don't know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Once the war was over?
MRS. KEATON: Oh! She worked... she was a teacher at Oak Ridge High School for years and years and years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right? What was her name?
MRS. KEATON: Claneria Harrison
MR. MCDANIEL: Claneria Harrison.
MRS. KEATON: Odd name.
MR. MCDANIEL: What did she teach?
MRS. KEATON: You know, I don't remember. And I keep thinking she may have been principal, but I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? Well, let me check into that and find out.
MRS. KEATON: But she taught in the high school and I don't know what she taught.
MR. MCDANIEL: Had she been to college?
MRS. KEATON: She had a college degree
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did she?
MRS. KEATON: And I think that's why she had a better job, initially.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MRS. KEATON: And she met her husband at Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, she did? Ok. What was his name?
MRS. KEATON: John Harrison.
MR. MCDANIEL: John Harrison, Ok. And what ... Did he work at Oak Ridge?
MRS. KEATON: He worked at K-25.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did he? Ok.
MRS. KEATON: And they ...
MR. MCDANIEL: For his career, I mean, did he stay there?
MRS. KEATON: Well, they moved to Chattanooga, K-25 was getting kind of ready to close or something. They moved to Chattanooga and he worked for Combustion Engineer and she taught school in Chattanooga and they lived there until they... they both are deceased.
MR. MCDANIEL: But she... but they lived in Oak Ridge for a long time and she taught at the high school there.
MRS. KEATON: She did, she did.
MR. MCDANIEL: When she was teaching, what did she teach? Do you remember?
MRS. KEATON: I cannot remember.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, I probably just asked you that and I can't even remember that I asked you. (laughter)
MRS. KEATON: That's ok. I just can't remember and I keep thinking she might have been principal but now, I'm not sure of that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MRS. KEATON: But that was probably in the early 50s.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MRS. KEATON: And they lived in Oak Ridge, you know, for a long time.
MR. MCDANIEL: And I'm sure you went back to Oak Ridge to visit.
MRS. KEATON: To visit, yes. Very often.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh, I'm sure you did. So you moved, like I said, you moved, you got married, you moved away, you ended up in Cumberland County and have been in Cumberland County ever since.
MRS. KEATON: Right. Uh-huh, that's true, yes. We've been here since 194-... We moved here in '47.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: And I worked for a medical clinic. I was the business manager for a group of doctors.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok. The... You know, as you ... I want to ask you two questions. One was about when you found out what Oak Ridge was doing then, and the other one is, now that you look back on it. So let's start with the first one. I mean, how did you feel, I mean, you know, when you found out that Oak Ridge was helping to build a bomb that, you know, they dropped on, that killed tens of thousands of people.
MRS. KEATON: You know, I've thought about it a lot. I try ... I thought I did what they told me to do.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MRS. KEATON: And that it did help the war. In later years, I have wondered if it was the right thing.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Sure.
MRS. KEATON: But it had to be, it had to be because... I know it was bad all the Japanese were killed and all that but I think that we would have lost so many more Americans had we not built it and then Germany, you know, was ready.
MR. MCDANIEL: We thought they were ready.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: We did. We thought they were ready to go.
MRS. KEATON: And I've just tried to look at it that way. And I've asked God to forgive me if I did something wrong.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, of course. I've interviewed a lot of people and asked a lot of people that question and I think the sense has always been, it was a terrible thing.
MRS. KEATON: It was.
MR. MCDANIEL: But something big had to be done.
MRS. KEATON: Right. Uh-huh, right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Our -- we were talking before the interview, our good friend, Bill Wilcox, passed away just a couple of days ago. In one of his interviews, he talked about that 52 million people died during World War II worldwide. 52 million people. And there was no end in sight.
MRS. KEATON: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: Until the bomb was dropped. One fellow I remember specifically, when I asked him that question, he said to me, he said, "I'm proud we did it," he says, "no, I'm not proud we did it," he says, "it was a job that needed to be done and I'm glad we did it well."
MRS. KEATON: That's right.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, that's the way a lot of people...
MRS. KEATON: That's a good way to look at it.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's the way a lot of people feel about that.
MRS. KEATON: And I felt like I did what I was told to do, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: And, that kind of... I think it was...
MR. MCDANIEL: And you feel like that was your patriotic duty, wasn't it?
MRS. KEATON: Right, right. It was.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah. Well good. So, anything else you want to talk about Oak Ridge-related? Any good stories?
MRS. KEATON: You know, one thing I do remember when I was there, and I can't remember the year, it probably was early 1945, we were going to ... No, it had to be '44 because I hadn't moved out, I was still living with my sister.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see. Ok.
MRS. KEATON: And one afternoon we were supposed to go to work and I didn't feel really, really good but I wasn't really sick. But I thought, I don't think I feel like going to work today, I'm going to stay home. And I remember my brother-in-law, John, said, "Aw, you just don't want to go to work."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: And I was really, really sick and I went into my bedroom and I just kept getting sicker and sicker and sicker and I knew that I was, you know, kind of out of my mind.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.
MRS. KEATON: And, of course... (phone rings)
MR. MCDANIEL: That's ok.
MRS. KEATON: And, of course, we didn't have phones, you know, I don't think we had a telephone. No.
MR. MCDANIEL: Probably not.
MRS. KEATON: So I could hear my neighbors outside. We had to chop, cut wood for the stove, to heat the water, the hot water heater. And I kept beating on the window and beating on the window to try to get their attention and then I'd have to go back and lie down and I'd be out of my head. Finally, I got their attention and they came into the house and they had to call an ambulance and I was admitted to the hospital and I had double pneumonia.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, my.
MRS. KEATON: And they put me in the orthopedic ward. I don't know why, because it was at night and the next day, the doctor came in and he was really upset, but at this particular time, sulfa had just, you know, they were just starting to use sulfa...
MR. MCDANIEL: Just starting to use sulfa...
MRS. KEATON: And my sister pleaded with them and begged them to give me sulfa, which they did and I recovered but probably I would have died.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? My goodness.
MRS. KEATON: But that's one thing I've always remembered about Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, my goodness.
MRS. KEATON: But they had a hospital, they had a hospital.
MR. MCDANIEL: Had a good hospital and they were all, the doctors at that time were all Army officers.
MRS. KEATON: Right, uh-huh. But I guess when they just took me in, they didn't know what was wrong with me, maybe, and just admitted me to the orthopedic, which...
MR. MCDANIEL: Might have been the only place they had space.
MRS. KEATON: Absolutely, absolutely. I thought about that sometime. But I remember my sister begging them to try the sulfa on me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: Because they had called my parents, you know. They didn't think I would live!
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. KEATON: But anyway, I remember that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah. You don't remember the doctor's name, do you?
MRS. KEATON: I don't have a clue. I was probably out of my head most of the time. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Probably so.
MRS. KEATON: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: My goodness. Well, that was a good story. It was, one of those things that happened to you that you remember, you know.
MRS. KEATON: Yeah. I do remember it. I was young and, you know, I guess I had never been to the doctor much before.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. That's probably the sickest you'd ever been.
MRS. KEATON: Oh, of course. Yeah, it was.
MR. MCDANIEL: My goodness. Well, anything else?
MRS. KEATON: I can't remember anything else.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, I tell you what, I'm going to turn this camera off and we're going to sit here for a minute.
MRS. KEATON: Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: Because I've got a story to tell you and then maybe you'll think of something.
MRS. KEATON: Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: But anyway, if not, thank you for taking the time to talk with us.
MRS. KEATON: Well, thank you for interviewing me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, sure.
[End of Interview]

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ORAL HISTORY OF LOUISE KEATON
Interviewed by Keith McDaniel
September 5, 2013
MR. MCDANIEL: This is Keith McDaniel and it's September 5, 2013, and I am at the home of Louise Keaton in Crossville, out here on the beautiful Lake Tansi. Mrs. Keaton, thank you so much for taking time to talk with us.
MRS. KEATON: It's my pleasure.
MR. MCDANIEL: Why don't we start at the beginning? Why don't you tell me where you were born and raised?
MRS. KEATON: I was born in Pikeville, Bledsoe County, Tennessee. And I was born in 1926. I lived there until I graduated high school and then went to Oak Ridge to work.
MR. MCDANIEL: So you grew up in Bledsoe County?
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: What did your mother and father do?
MRS. KEATON: My daddy, they had a small farm and my daddy drove a school bus part of the time and my mother, of course, was just a housewife.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, did you have brothers and sisters?
MRS. KEATON: I do. Well, they're all gone now. I had one brother and I had four sisters.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, my.
MRS. KEATON: There were six of us. I was the youngest.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. So did y'all have to work on the farm?
MRS. KEATON: Well, it was a small farm, but we did. It was in kind of a poor portion of Bledsoe County and, the time I grew up, we had no electricity.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MRS. KEATON: No. We just did what we had to do to make a living.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you have running water in the house?
MRS. KEATON: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, it really was kind of rustic, wasn't it?
MRS. KEATON: It was very rustic.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, did you live close enough to the school to walk?
MRS. KEATON: I did. I lived real close to the school. And then in 1942, there were two high schools in Bledsoe County and I lived in the upper part of the valley, or the county, I should say, and there were very few students so they combined the schools and in 1942, I moved -- our school moved to Bledsoe County High School.
MR. MCDANIEL: I'm going to pause for just a second because I need to sneeze. So, hold on.
MRS. KEATON: Ok, go right...
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, so, I apologize, I had to blow my nose. So, you moved into the new school in Bledsoe County when they formed the...
MRS. KEATON: It actually was not a new school but it was...
MR. MCDANIEL: But they consolidated...
MRS. KEATON: But they consolidated, only had one high school.
MR. MCDANIEL: What grade were you in when that happened?
MRS. KEATON: I was a sophomore in high school.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, all right. So you went through there and you got through high school.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: And what year did you graduate?
MRS. KEATON: I graduated in April of 1944.
MR. MCDANIEL: April of 1944.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, how did you know about Oak Ridge?
MRS. KEATON: Well, of course, we knew about the Secret City.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: But a gentleman in a service uniform came to the school when I was a senior and recruited the senior girls to work at Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. KEATON: So I was hired at that time and I had to wait until I was 18, so I had to wait until May.
MR. MCDANIEL: May of '4-...'44?
MRS. KEATON: May of '44.
MR. MCDANIEL: May of '44.
MRS. KEATON: And then I went directly to Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, how did you get there? Did you ride a bus or train or?
MRS. KEATON: No, they came and got me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, they did?
MRS. KEATON: Yes, a young man in a, I think it was just an automobile, came and got me. Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Came and got you.
MRS. KEATON: Mmm-hmm.
MR. MCDANIEL: They needed people to work, didn't they?
MRS. KEATON: They really did, yes. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: So you go, you just turned 18.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Just graduated high school.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: You... they come and get you and take you to Oak Ridge. Tell me about that; tell me what you remember about that.
MRS. KEATON: Ok, at that particular time, my sister was working at Oak Ridge and she lived in a flat top, one of the flat tops. I can't remember where we lived but I moved in with her for a while and then, a little bit later, she and her husband bought a place in Kingston.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. KEATON: And, at that time, I moved into a dormitory.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, what was she doing there at Oak Ridge?
MRS. KEATON: You know, I really don't know. She worked in some kind of a lab.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did she?
MRS. KEATON: Yes. She had a pretty good job.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did she?
MRS. KEATON: Uh-huh. And she had been there since, I think, '42.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, so she got there early.
MRS. KEATON: Mmm-hmm, yes. And her husband worked at Oak Ridge... K-25, I'm sorry.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see. So, you get there... and you drive through the gates. What do you remember seeing?
MRS. KEATON: Well, of course, I was a young, naive country girl.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: And I remember all the guards and the guardhouse and just so many buildings being constructed. It was really muddy, you know, didn't have sidewalks.
MR. MCDANIEL: You didn't have paved streets, did you?
MRS. KEATON: No. Not at all.
MR. MCDANIEL: They used gravel on a lot of the streets.
MRS. KEATON: And when we got there, it was just getting dark, I do remember that. And I moved in and I don't remember very much about training. It seems to me like we went directly to work in a few days. I know we had to have a physical and all that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Some ladies will remember being talked to, the young ladies being talked to about the way they dressed and the way they acted around the men and things such as that. Do you remember anything like that?
MRS. KEATON: I do not remember that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, well, maybe it was just them. (laughs)
MRS. KEATON: Well, you know, that's been so long and I don't remember that and it seem like I do remember that we had to be processed, I guess. I had to get a badge number and we had physicals and it seem like I just went directly to work.
MR. MCDANIEL: Went directly to work. And so you went to work at Y-12 and you worked as what?
MRS. KEATON: Calutron. We called them cubicles.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. A cubicle operator.
MRS. KEATON: As a cubicle operator, uh-huh.
MR. MCDANIEL: Which was the control panel for a calutron.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Do you remember the name of the building that you worked in?
MRS. KEATON: No, I sure don't.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was it...? Do you remember if it was a big calutron or the... I mean, there were some that were like eight feet and some that were like 16 feet.
MRS. KEATON: Oh, yeah, oh yeah. They were big. They were on each side of a long aisle.
MR. MCDANIEL: Then you were in an Alpha, which was the biggest ones.
MRS. KEATON: The big ones, yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: The smaller ones were in kind of an oval shape and the Alpha ones were two rows.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: And the control panels was between the rows.
MRS. KEATON: Ok, I remember that I operated four.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MRS. KEATON: Two on each side of the aisle. And I remember my badge number.
MR. MCDANIEL: What was it?
MRS. KEATON: 18157.
MR. MCDANIEL: 18157.
MRS. KEATON: Which is ironic because I can't remember my phone number. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, I can barely remember what I had for breakfast, so don't worry about that. I had a friend of mine, we were at a birthday party, he says, "You know, I can remember what happened 40 years ago but not what happened five minutes ago."
MRS. KEATON: Absolutely. I know the feeling, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you worked there, do you remember... Is there any specific memories you have of that, any incidences any people that stand out in your mind?
MRS. KEATON: I remember my supervisor was a sergeant and I could remember his name up until a few years ago but I cannot... I think it was Kilgore.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really, ok.
MRS. KEATON: But I remember when we went to work, of course, we had to be searched before we went into the building.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: And then we changed clothes into a uniform, blue uniform. Then, when we came out, we left that uniform and it was laundered and ready for us for the next shift. I remember the girls that I worked with, it was fun. I remember the cubicles. They were kind of -- sometimes you'd have flurries, what we called flurries and you had to keep operating and adjusting knobs so that you could make good readings.
MR. MCDANIEL: Do you remember they told you about... I know you said they put you right to work, but they probably had to train you to a certain degree.
MRS. KEATON: Well, the readings should be, you know, as high as we could get 'em.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: And if they got out of control, we operated a knob between them and got them back. And they would make terrible noises.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MRS. KEATON: When they would get into 'flurries.'
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MRS. KEATON: I do remember that in the back of each one of the cubicles or calutrons, there was a small window and we were told never to look in that window.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really.
MRS. KEATON: Mmm-hmm. And I remember what we called The Pit.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. KEATON: Was probably the race track.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. KEATON: And sometimes, we had to work there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MRS. KEATON: And I hated that 'cause it was scary.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was it really?
MRS. KEATON: Yeah. We had to go in to it, it was down, you know, and make operations in there. I didn't like to go in there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MRS. KEATON: But we didn't have to do that very often.
MR. MCDANIEL: But you did have to be careful about what you wore in there. I mean, you couldn't have any jewelry or watches.
MRS. KEATON: Oh, no! No watches, no jewelry, we had, of course, we had to wear our badge, but nothing, you know, jewelry or anything like that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly. Do you remember a line, a red line that was painted on the floor that says, "Don't get any closer to this" or anything like that? That might have been -- I know in one of the beta buildings they had that.
MRS. KEATON: It might be. I don't remember that. We sat on stools and, you know, we were back and forth across aisle operating the different calutrons.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. KEATON: And I don't remember -- I think that when you would go, one day you would operate certain ones and the next day you usually operated the same ones.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh, sure.
MRS. KEATON: Kind of got used to them.
MR. MCDANIEL: The ... So, did you work shift work? Tell me about that.
MRS. KEATON: I did. We changed shifts every week.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MRS. KEATON: Mmm-hmm.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, wow.
MRS. KEATON: Seven to three, three to eleven, eleven to seven.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh.
MRS. KEATON: And I liked the three to eleven better because you didn't have to get up so early and you had time to do things, you know, before you went to work. The eleven to seven wasn't much fun.
MR. MCDANIEL: I'm sure it wasn't. Well, with people coming and going 24 hours a day I'm sure it was hard to get sleep during the daytime, anyway.
MRS. KEATON: It was. Well, yes, I know when we got off work, we rode buses, you know, back and forth to work, and you'd be so tired and so sleepy and you could never get a seat. You always had to stand up. And I remember standing and holding on to the ceiling, you know, trying to work.
MR. MCDANIEL: Just trying to ...
MRS. KEATON: And sometimes it would be hard to go to sleep because you'd be all excited or if you'd had a hard shift work or something. Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Now, how many, in the row that you worked, how many young ladies were there? You remember, about?
MRS. KEATON: Oh, there were a lot, because those calutrons were, you know, just side by side all down those aisles. Oh, I guess... maybe 30 or 40 operators. I don't remember.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, were most of them young ladies like yourself?
MRS. KEATON: Right. Uh-huh. One of our supervisors was an older lady. She was probably in her 40s and she operated a calutron, but she would kind of come back and forth and check on us. She was really a supervisor. But the personnel, the Army personnel were the ones that came around and checked the dials and our readings and all.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. You know, you know, the story about why they chose young women for that job, don't you? Have you ever heard that? Instead of the older men, the more experienced scientists?
MRS. KEATON: I have heard that, usually, the country girls, or the hillbilly girls didn't ask a lot of questions, did what they were asked to do and probably did better than the scientists. That's what I have heard.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's what I've heard, too, because the scientists, they were always messing with things, trying to get it better and they usually mess it up. And the ladies were there and they did what they were told and kept the needle in a certain range and, you're right, they're probably a little intimidated by the whole situation so didn't want to cause any trouble.
MRS. KEATON: Yeah. I know that once you got your machines, you know, going really, really good, then you could keep them running. You know, you finally knew how to do that. And, I guess, that was one of the reasons maybe that we were good operators.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. Now, when you came in on a shift, were the machines continuously running and you just kind of took over?
MRS. KEATON: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Or did you have to start up again?
MRS. KEATON: No, they would be running from the previous shift.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, I see.
MRS. KEATON: You just took over.
MR. MCDANIEL: And my understanding was about every 100 hours they would have to shut down to retrieve the material.
MRS. KEATON: Yeah, the heat boxes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, the heat boxes, and then they would have to start back up. Was that difficult?
MRS. KEATON: I think that they started them back.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did they? I see.
MRS. KEATON: I can't remember exactly, but I remember when they would shut down, you would call and they would come and take them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MRS. KEATON: I think they were set up for a certain amount of time.
MR. MCDANIEL: So what was life like in Oak Ridge? You were a young, as you said, country girl, probably hadn't been exposed to a lot of things, you know, like you were in Oak Ridge.
MRS. KEATON: It was fun. We had fun. For the first time in my life I had money and independence and we had lots of friends, you know, and there were lots of young service people there -- you didn't have any trouble getting a date.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MRS. KEATON: In order to keep us happy, I guess, they had lots of dances and they had a huge skating rink. They tried to keep us happy so we'd stay there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. And occupied.
MRS. KEATON: Right. And you were talking about the Playhouse that was a movie theater. We went to movies and bowled.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, I think they had four movie theaters and four or five bowling alleys and, you know, like you said, all kinds of activities. I know they had all kinds of sports leagues and teams, you know, things such as that.
MRS. KEATON: And occasionally we'd go to Knoxville by bus and go to shop or whatever, you know. Ball games. We went to some of the UT ball games. But we had a... I had a good time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, you were young and single and in a new place and, like you said, had a little pocket money, you know, might as well enjoy it while you could.
MRS. KEATON: That's right. Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: What did ... what did you young ladies think? Did you know? I mean, did you have any idea of what Oak Ridge was about?
MRS. KEATON: I didn't. And I can't remember that it bothered me. I had a job and I knew it was something that was helping the war effort.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: I had a sister that was in the Air Force as an RN. My brother was in Germany and I felt like I was doing something to help, you know. And I really didn't worry about it too much.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. Well, that was most people, if it was the war effort then, and the government didn't want to tell us, they were smarter than we were.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, they were... they used to be smarter than us.
MRS. KEATON: Right. And I guess I just trusted them, that what we were doing was right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, that was the way people were during World War II.
MRS. KEATON: Right, that was it. And I had a lot of friends that, high school friends, which were in the service, you know, so.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you? Now had you lost any of your friends in the war at that point?
MRS. KEATON: I had. I had dated a boy when I was, like, a junior in high school and he went to the Navy and he was killed.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, my. So that made it ...
MRS. KEATON: It was traumatic, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was traumatic. And I imagine with your brother and sister in the service it was important for you, not only to have a job, but to do something that you felt like you were doing something, wasn't it?
MRS. KEATON: That's right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Do you remember going to any of the tennis court dances?
MRS. KEATON: Oh, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: What were they like?
MRS. KEATON: They were fun! They were really fun! Yeah! That was one of the good entertainments we had.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: And they had them real often.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. Tell me about food. Now, you lived with your sister, so did you eat at home, usually, or did you go to the cafeterias or what?
MRS. KEATON: When we were not working, you know, like off, you know, for... we cooked. But when we worked, of course, we got a lunch break and we ate in the cafeterias. And then when I moved into a dormitory, of course, we had to eat in the cafeterias.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, which dormitory did you live in, or about where was it located?
MRS. KEATON: It was located, I guess, down toward Solway.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. KEATON: But I cannot remember the name. I just can't. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Now which... was there a cafeteria down there?
MRS. KEATON: There was a cafeteria close and I don't even remember what it was.
MR. MCDANIEL: Down near Solway, huh...
MRS. KEATON: Well, in that direction.
MR. MCDANIEL: In that direction, yeah.
MRS. KEATON: Right, yeah. But there were a lot of dorms, a lot of them, but I was only in one.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. Now was it close to... were there more than one dormitory in that general area?
MRS. KEATON: Yes, uh-huh... But we could... It might have not been there, I don't know. We could walk to the cafeteria but we had to get a bus to go to town site.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see, yeah. Yeah, it was probably out ... going out of Oak Ridge towards Solway area.
MRS. KEATON: Uh-huh, I remember it was on the right, going out and I can't remember the name.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's all right. That's quite all right.
MRS. KEATON: That's a long time ago.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's a long time ago and there's none of those that are left. None of the dormitories that are left.
MRS. KEATON: Is that right?
MR. MCDANIEL: I think there may be one that may still be standing, but yeah, most of them are gone.
MRS. KEATON: I had a room, just a private room...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MRS. KEATON: ... for ... I paid $15 a month and I had maid service. But I guess that was because they wanted to make sure that if you had any of the uranium on you, it could be retrieved. I don't know why we had maid service.
MR. MCDANIEL: Maybe. Maybe it was just somebody kind of checking in on everybody, too.
MRS. KEATON: Yeah, I don't know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, how much did you make? Do you remember?
MRS. KEATON: Yes. I think I started out at 70 cents an hour.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. KEATON: That's the best I remember.
MR. MCDANIEL: So that would be... $30... That'd be $120 a month? $120-130 a month?
MRS. KEATON: Well we were paid every two weeks and every two weeks, I had money to, I helped my sister with the rent and then I always bought a war bond, we called them war bonds, every paycheck.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? So how much did the war bond cost?
MRS. KEATON: Seem like it was $17 if you bought like a... I don't know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow, wow...
MRS. KEATON: Yeah, it wasn't all that much, but I can't remember.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, what did you do with those war bonds?
MRS. KEATON: I kept them and after we got married, we needed the money and we cashed them in.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, that was a pretty good savings account for you, wasn't it?
MRS. KEATON: Yeah, I had some savings and also helped my parents.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.
MRS. KEATON: They needed, you know, some help so I helped them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, absolutely. Well, so... Do you remember the cafeteria food? Did you like it?
MRS. KEATON: It wasn't bad. It wasn't bad. I mean, after a while you kind of, it was kind of repetitious.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, of course.
MRS. KEATON: But it wasn't bad.
MR. MCDANIEL: I interviewed one lady and she grew up on a farm and she said, "I just couldn't stand those powdered eggs." She says, "I was used to farm fresh eggs." She says, "I think I lost about 15 pounds the first year I was there because I couldn't stand the cafeteria food."
MRS. KEATON: Yeah, I don't remember it being too bad. And then, of course, when I was living with my sister, you know, we just cooked normally.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, but you couldn't find... There were certain things you couldn't get.
MRS. KEATON: Absolutely.
MR. MCDANIEL: So tell me about that.
MRS. KEATON: Well, coffee was rationed and sugar was rationed and a lot of things were, you know, meat and things. And of course, shoes were rationed, of course, that wasn't a food, but ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MRS. KEATON: But we were OK.
MR. MCDANIEL: Do you remember standing in lines to get stuff?
MRS. KEATON: Oh, my goodness. When you saw a line, you just automatically got in it. (laughs) Because it had to be going where you needed to be.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: They were everywhere and you just kind of got used to it. You just stood in line.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly. And you rode the bus, you rode the bus system.
MRS. KEATON: We rode the buses, yeah, to and from. And, when I would come home, I would ride the train from Knoxville... I mean from Oak Ridge to Crossville.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MRS. KEATON: And then somebody would pick me up.
MR. MCDANIEL: Somebody would pick you up. Now, how far was it from your home to the train station in Crossville?
MRS. KEATON: To Crossville... Oh, from... Hmmmm... it was about 15 miles.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok. So it wasn't a terribly long...
MRS. KEATON: No, it wasn't bad, uh-uh.
MR. MCDANIEL: ... long drive. That's good. So you stayed there until...? You stayed in Oak Ridge until when?
MRS. KEATON: 1946. And I left because I got married.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, so you were there in '45 when the bombs were dropped.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: When the war ended.
MRS. KEATON: Uh-huh.
MR. MCDANIEL: Tell me, what do you remember about that?
MRS. KEATON: I remember when the war was over, you know, that we had a big celebration. And we were out in the street all night long and it was very patriotic, very, very, very noisy, but after we found out, you know, about the bomb, we continued to work, but it wasn't like it was before. And I remember in ... 1945 was when the war was over, August, yeah. And I stayed on until 1946.
MR. MCDANIEL: 1946. And the ... but they were kind of shutting things down.
MRS. KEATON: They were shutting things down and I was transferred ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Because K-25 was coming online and it was more efficient than the calutrons.
MRS. KEATON: They were closing down and I was transferred to another department.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, were you?
MRS. KEATON: It was a smaller place and we operated just kind of small machines.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was it the same kind of thing, though? Was it...?
MRS. KEATON: I don't know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok. But it was the same kind of control?
MRS. KEATON: No, it was just smaller, they were individual and they were by themselves.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see. So you stayed there until you got married?
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, where did you meet your husband?
MRS. KEATON: Well, he was a local boy... I mean, he was...
MR. MCDANIEL: From where you were from...
MRS. KEATON: ...from where I was from. He was... We lived close to each other, about two miles from each other, but didn't date until I started working at Oak Ridge. He had been in a real bad accident, an automobile accident when he was at UT [University of Tennessee] as a student.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. KEATON: And he had a really bad leg. His leg was broken and he had to stay in the hospital about a year.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, wow.
MRS. KEATON: So he was not eligible for service so he was operating the farm, his family's farm. And when I would go home from Oak Ridge, you know, then we started dating.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. Now, how long did y'all date?
MRS. KEATON: Well, I guess we started dating in probably 194-... Probably a couple of years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, right, right. I understand. Then y'all decided to get married.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: And you moved back to Bledsoe County?
MRS. KEATON: Yes, uh-huh.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. KEATON: And then, eventually, in about a year, we moved to Cumberland County.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. The ... And you never went back to Oak Ridge to work, did you?
MRS. KEATON: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: Never went... Now what did your sister do?
MRS. KEATON: I don't know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Once the war was over?
MRS. KEATON: Oh! She worked... she was a teacher at Oak Ridge High School for years and years and years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right? What was her name?
MRS. KEATON: Claneria Harrison
MR. MCDANIEL: Claneria Harrison.
MRS. KEATON: Odd name.
MR. MCDANIEL: What did she teach?
MRS. KEATON: You know, I don't remember. And I keep thinking she may have been principal, but I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? Well, let me check into that and find out.
MRS. KEATON: But she taught in the high school and I don't know what she taught.
MR. MCDANIEL: Had she been to college?
MRS. KEATON: She had a college degree
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did she?
MRS. KEATON: And I think that's why she had a better job, initially.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MRS. KEATON: And she met her husband at Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, she did? Ok. What was his name?
MRS. KEATON: John Harrison.
MR. MCDANIEL: John Harrison, Ok. And what ... Did he work at Oak Ridge?
MRS. KEATON: He worked at K-25.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did he? Ok.
MRS. KEATON: And they ...
MR. MCDANIEL: For his career, I mean, did he stay there?
MRS. KEATON: Well, they moved to Chattanooga, K-25 was getting kind of ready to close or something. They moved to Chattanooga and he worked for Combustion Engineer and she taught school in Chattanooga and they lived there until they... they both are deceased.
MR. MCDANIEL: But she... but they lived in Oak Ridge for a long time and she taught at the high school there.
MRS. KEATON: She did, she did.
MR. MCDANIEL: When she was teaching, what did she teach? Do you remember?
MRS. KEATON: I cannot remember.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, I probably just asked you that and I can't even remember that I asked you. (laughter)
MRS. KEATON: That's ok. I just can't remember and I keep thinking she might have been principal but now, I'm not sure of that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MRS. KEATON: But that was probably in the early 50s.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MRS. KEATON: And they lived in Oak Ridge, you know, for a long time.
MR. MCDANIEL: And I'm sure you went back to Oak Ridge to visit.
MRS. KEATON: To visit, yes. Very often.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh, I'm sure you did. So you moved, like I said, you moved, you got married, you moved away, you ended up in Cumberland County and have been in Cumberland County ever since.
MRS. KEATON: Right. Uh-huh, that's true, yes. We've been here since 194-... We moved here in '47.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: And I worked for a medical clinic. I was the business manager for a group of doctors.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok. The... You know, as you ... I want to ask you two questions. One was about when you found out what Oak Ridge was doing then, and the other one is, now that you look back on it. So let's start with the first one. I mean, how did you feel, I mean, you know, when you found out that Oak Ridge was helping to build a bomb that, you know, they dropped on, that killed tens of thousands of people.
MRS. KEATON: You know, I've thought about it a lot. I try ... I thought I did what they told me to do.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MRS. KEATON: And that it did help the war. In later years, I have wondered if it was the right thing.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Sure.
MRS. KEATON: But it had to be, it had to be because... I know it was bad all the Japanese were killed and all that but I think that we would have lost so many more Americans had we not built it and then Germany, you know, was ready.
MR. MCDANIEL: We thought they were ready.
MRS. KEATON: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: We did. We thought they were ready to go.
MRS. KEATON: And I've just tried to look at it that way. And I've asked God to forgive me if I did something wrong.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, of course. I've interviewed a lot of people and asked a lot of people that question and I think the sense has always been, it was a terrible thing.
MRS. KEATON: It was.
MR. MCDANIEL: But something big had to be done.
MRS. KEATON: Right. Uh-huh, right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Our -- we were talking before the interview, our good friend, Bill Wilcox, passed away just a couple of days ago. In one of his interviews, he talked about that 52 million people died during World War II worldwide. 52 million people. And there was no end in sight.
MRS. KEATON: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: Until the bomb was dropped. One fellow I remember specifically, when I asked him that question, he said to me, he said, "I'm proud we did it," he says, "no, I'm not proud we did it," he says, "it was a job that needed to be done and I'm glad we did it well."
MRS. KEATON: That's right.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, that's the way a lot of people...
MRS. KEATON: That's a good way to look at it.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's the way a lot of people feel about that.
MRS. KEATON: And I felt like I did what I was told to do, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: And, that kind of... I think it was...
MR. MCDANIEL: And you feel like that was your patriotic duty, wasn't it?
MRS. KEATON: Right, right. It was.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah. Well good. So, anything else you want to talk about Oak Ridge-related? Any good stories?
MRS. KEATON: You know, one thing I do remember when I was there, and I can't remember the year, it probably was early 1945, we were going to ... No, it had to be '44 because I hadn't moved out, I was still living with my sister.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see. Ok.
MRS. KEATON: And one afternoon we were supposed to go to work and I didn't feel really, really good but I wasn't really sick. But I thought, I don't think I feel like going to work today, I'm going to stay home. And I remember my brother-in-law, John, said, "Aw, you just don't want to go to work."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: And I was really, really sick and I went into my bedroom and I just kept getting sicker and sicker and sicker and I knew that I was, you know, kind of out of my mind.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.
MRS. KEATON: And, of course... (phone rings)
MR. MCDANIEL: That's ok.
MRS. KEATON: And, of course, we didn't have phones, you know, I don't think we had a telephone. No.
MR. MCDANIEL: Probably not.
MRS. KEATON: So I could hear my neighbors outside. We had to chop, cut wood for the stove, to heat the water, the hot water heater. And I kept beating on the window and beating on the window to try to get their attention and then I'd have to go back and lie down and I'd be out of my head. Finally, I got their attention and they came into the house and they had to call an ambulance and I was admitted to the hospital and I had double pneumonia.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, my.
MRS. KEATON: And they put me in the orthopedic ward. I don't know why, because it was at night and the next day, the doctor came in and he was really upset, but at this particular time, sulfa had just, you know, they were just starting to use sulfa...
MR. MCDANIEL: Just starting to use sulfa...
MRS. KEATON: And my sister pleaded with them and begged them to give me sulfa, which they did and I recovered but probably I would have died.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? My goodness.
MRS. KEATON: But that's one thing I've always remembered about Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, my goodness.
MRS. KEATON: But they had a hospital, they had a hospital.
MR. MCDANIEL: Had a good hospital and they were all, the doctors at that time were all Army officers.
MRS. KEATON: Right, uh-huh. But I guess when they just took me in, they didn't know what was wrong with me, maybe, and just admitted me to the orthopedic, which...
MR. MCDANIEL: Might have been the only place they had space.
MRS. KEATON: Absolutely, absolutely. I thought about that sometime. But I remember my sister begging them to try the sulfa on me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. KEATON: Because they had called my parents, you know. They didn't think I would live!
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. KEATON: But anyway, I remember that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah. You don't remember the doctor's name, do you?
MRS. KEATON: I don't have a clue. I was probably out of my head most of the time. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Probably so.
MRS. KEATON: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: My goodness. Well, that was a good story. It was, one of those things that happened to you that you remember, you know.
MRS. KEATON: Yeah. I do remember it. I was young and, you know, I guess I had never been to the doctor much before.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. That's probably the sickest you'd ever been.
MRS. KEATON: Oh, of course. Yeah, it was.
MR. MCDANIEL: My goodness. Well, anything else?
MRS. KEATON: I can't remember anything else.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, I tell you what, I'm going to turn this camera off and we're going to sit here for a minute.
MRS. KEATON: Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: Because I've got a story to tell you and then maybe you'll think of something.
MRS. KEATON: Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: But anyway, if not, thank you for taking the time to talk with us.
MRS. KEATON: Well, thank you for interviewing me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, sure.
[End of Interview]