The impassioned defenses of Detroit Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford make perfect sense. Lions coach Jim Schwartz isn't losing his confidence in his star signal-caller. Wide receiver Calvin Johnson also thinks it's wrong to place so much blame on Stafford for the team's latest slump. They want to believe their fifth-year leader remains the answer to Detroit's long-term future. They have no interest in exploring a possibility that is becoming harder to ignore -- that Stafford might never be the man to take this team where it wants to go.

At this point in Stafford's career, it's fair to question his ceiling. The Lions -- a team that sat atop the NFC North a few weeks ago -- have dropped four of their past five games, including a baffling 18-16 home loss to Baltimore on Monday night. In that stretch, Stafford has thrown 10 interceptions, lost two fumbles and produced only one performance when he completed more than 57 percent of his attempts. In other words, he is playing the worst football of his career at the worst possible time.

That has been somewhat overshadowed by questions about the future of Schwartz, who arrived in Detroit just a few months before Stafford became the first pick in the 2009 draft. It's actually a silly discussion to entertain at this point. Schwartz surely knows his job is in jeopardy if the Lions don't reach the playoffs. He has had five seasons and barely survived at the end of last season.

The real question is whether Stafford can take that next step in his development. That should be especially galling to Detroit fans, given the five-year, $76.5 million extension he signed this summer. He's always had plenty of gunslinger in his game, and few quarterbacks in the league can match his arm strength. His decision-making and his struggles at critical junctures are a different matter. Stafford might be moving toward an exasperating career that starkly resembles Tony Romo's in Dallas.

Consider the Baltimore game. Even though Stafford was plagued by some dropped passes, he also threw three interceptions, the biggest of which came on Detroit's final drive. The Lions had three timeouts, 38 seconds remaining and the ball on their own 20-yard line when that possession began. It ended one play later, when Stafford lofted a pass that was too high for wide receiver Nate Burleson to catch, a throw that ultimately landed in the hands of Ravens safety Matt Elam.

That pass in that situation defied explanation. The Lions had ample opportunity to move the ball into field goal range in a game they trailed by two points. Forget about what Peyton Manning or Tom Brady would have done in such circumstances. There are plenty of younger quarterbacks who could have delivered in that moment, including Indianapolis' Andrew Luck and Seattle's Russell Wilson.

That's one of Stafford's major problems at the moment. There are enough talented quarterbacks in the league today that his regression becomes more disconcerting with each passing week. Luck, the first pick in the 2011 draft, took over the worst team in the league and has twice led the Colts to winning seasons. Wilson has emerged as a legitimate MVP candidate after falling to the third round of that same draft. Meanwhile, Stafford, 25, is starting to look very much like another strong-armed quarterback who can't do the little things that consistently lead to victories.

Stafford has escaped such criticism thus far. Shoulder injuries in his first two seasons -- which limited him to a combined 13 games -- forced people to wait and see what he could do when healthy. Stafford also produced a Pro Bowl-worthy season in 2011, when he passed for 5,038 yards and 41 touchdowns and led the Lions to their first postseason appearance since 1999. The past two seasons have wilted much of the optimism that blossomed that year, though. Stafford's passer rating dropped nearly 18 points last season (from 97.2 in 2011 to 79.8 in 2012), and now his game is imploding during what should be another run for a playoff spot.

At one point this season, the Lions had everything working in their favor. Their two rivals in the NFC North, Green Bay and Chicago, lost their starting quarterbacks to injuries when Detroit was sitting atop the division with a 6-3 record. Now, it's hard to think highly of the one game Detroit did win. The Lions enjoyed a 40-10 thumping of the Packers on Thanksgiving, when Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers was standing on the sideline and his offense could muster only 126 yards in that contest.

It's hard to see this season ending well for Detroit. Stafford's play has been so inept lately that he'll probably be a liability in at least one more game on the Lions' schedule. At 7-7, the Lions don't control their own destiny in the playoff race any longer. And, for those who expect the season finale at Minnesota to be an easy win, think again. The Vikings nearly beat Baltimore two weeks ago and blew out Philadelphia this past Sunday.

Instead of worrying about whether the Lions can somehow make the playoffs, it's better to focus on where they're heading in the future. It's been well documented that they haven't had a Pro Bowl quarterback in four decades, and that legacy has surely made it easier for Stafford to excite fans with his skills. But now he finds himself in a place many of his Lions predecessors know too well. He's past the point where people can fantasize about his potential. The only thing that matters is whether there really is more to his game than what he has already shown.

For me, this is one of the most convincing justifications for the current regime getting the boot: not getting enough out of Stafford. I think this article is incredibly premature: let's see what Stafford can do with a sharper OC and a proper QB coach (I know they have some jerk but I think he's younger than Stafford).

_________________"There were a couple times where I was just like, 'Is that legal?" Warford said. "Cause he was getting laid out. I was like, 'Someone might call the cops. This is not fair.'"

For me, this is one of the most convincing justifications for the current regime getting the boot: not getting enough out of Stafford. I think this article is incredibly premature: let's see what Stafford can do with a sharper OC and a proper QB coach (I know they have some jerk but I think he's younger than Stafford).

Probably not much better. The New CBA has put an end to QB's being in the building as much as the HC in the off season like they used to be. As a result, rookie QB's look so much more impressive than veterans because the have spent their off season doing football stuff.Until the NFL and NFLPA negotiate a change that allows QB's back into the building in the off season, it won't change. And every QB in the NFL will just get marginally worse each season until that happens. Brady and Peyton Manning might be the only exceptions because they topped out before the new CBA went into place.

December 19th, 2013, 11:33 pm

Growler

Div 1 - Starter

Joined: April 8th, 2010, 3:24 pmPosts: 561

Re: Matthew Stafford must show more

It may sound like sacrilege considering how much we have invested in Stafford, but I have been quietly wondering if we might be better off with a different quarterback and, if so, how to extract ourselves from Stafford's contract.

December 20th, 2013, 12:26 am

The Legend

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4026Location: WSU

Re: Matthew Stafford must show more

definitely there is room to improve but I think a lot of the blame going to Stafford is just part of the way the NFL plays the blame and praise game on QBs. natl writers like this one will overcall everything bc they don't actually watch that many games. they go by record, stats and the one or two primetime games they watch yet cannot actually evaluate the talent or the situations leading to those stats. a lot of things that happen in NFL games happen bc of preceding events in the game. in the MNF game for example - if calvin catches those two big plays which 95% of the time he probably does, if Stafford takes his time and executes the screen pass to Bell, if Bush could break a run the Lions go way up early and Stafford isn't pressing, isn't frustrated that the offense has done nothing, is much less likely to force plays. even despite the way the game went down, I cant dismiss how good the guy looked on the opening drive and the 4th qtr drive where the Lions took the lead or how he did nail megatron in stride for 2 should ve been big plays. in the end, stafford's turnovers sunk the team and outweighed the positives that were there. almost everyone will agree with that - but I cant agree with Chadiha's article bc I don't see really any games where Stafford just comes out and puts his team in a huge hole of his own doing and does nothing to get them out of it. that's what a bad player is. I don't see many games where everyone else is playing well and the team wins in spite of Stafford or loses only bc of Stafford. if Stafford has a bad turnover plagued game it usually comes after multiple failings by his own teammates earlier in that game and the guy is taking the risks he needs to in an attempt to get the team back in it. sometimes it works out like vs MIN, DAL sometimes its a mixed bag like Tampa and Baltimore and other times it falls apart like vs PIT. What I have seen suggests that Stafford can make enough plays to be part of a contending team but not quite enough to overcome all the mistakes of a sloppy team like the one he is on.

December 20th, 2013, 1:29 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10019Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Matthew Stafford must show more

BillySims wrote:

thelomasbrowns wrote:

For me, this is one of the most convincing justifications for the current regime getting the boot: not getting enough out of Stafford. I think this article is incredibly premature: let's see what Stafford can do with a sharper OC and a proper QB coach (I know they have some jerk but I think he's younger than Stafford).

Probably not much better. The New CBA has put an end to QB's being in the building as much as the HC in the off season like they used to be. As a result, rookie QB's look so much more impressive than veterans because the have spent their off season doing football stuff.Until the NFL and NFLPA negotiate a change that allows QB's back into the building in the off season, it won't change. And every QB in the NFL will just get marginally worse each season until that happens. Brady and Peyton Manning might be the only exceptions because they topped out before the new CBA went into place.

Manning 'topped out'? He's having the best season of his career. I agree that the new CBA and the limitations on players being able to practice and be in the training facility has hurt. But that is what the players negotiated, so they are going to have to accept the fact that their level of play will suffer and as such fans will lash out.

But I do think a dedicated QB coach and a better OC can get more out of Stafford than what Linehan has been able to do. Sometimes Linehan has a decent game plan, but all too often he relies more on Stafford to make things happen than he should. Linehan abandons the running game too quickly, even when that portion of the offense is doing well. He has a struggling QB, and he continues to rely on him to march the team down the field in the fourth quarter. The OCs job is to be smarter than that and take pressure off the QB when possible, not throw him into the fire.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

December 20th, 2013, 1:13 pm

yostevo

Heisman Winner

Joined: March 28th, 2005, 7:50 pmPosts: 816Location: Burbs of De-town

Re: Matthew Stafford must show more

Back in the day I was one of the people trumpeting Aaron Curry over Mathew Stafford (In fact, I started the Curry thread). Obviously I couldn't have been more wrong. Stafford is a good QB and the best we've seen.

However, his game has flaws and one of the reasons I wasn't convinced he would be a good enough QB to rationalize that #1 overall pick was the fact he's a pretty inaccurrate QB. His numbers in college and the film dictated that. There are probably 2 college WRs open on every single play and his numbers (Below) were still not very good

I will concede he improved each and every year in college, but the truth is, if he were a truly accurate QB with the arm he has, these numbers should have been better and maybe his NFL play now reflects that.

The bottom line for me with Matt is that he's capable of winning a Super Bowl but he has to understand his limitations and make less negative plays. Hang in the pocket, step into your throws, take a hit if need be, cut out the gimmicky side arm sh!t.

This is not entirely his fault. He needs to be coached. Surround him with better people, rely less on his arm and more on the run. Scale it back and the mistakes will limit themselves.

December 20th, 2013, 1:42 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: Matthew Stafford must show more

yostevo wrote:

This is not entirely his fault. He needs to be coached. Surround him with better people, rely less on his arm and more on the run. Scale it back and the mistakes will limit themselves.

He showed good progress in college, then again improved in each of his first 3 years in the NFL and now he is sliding backwards. I'll take 41 TDs to 16 INTs again with a 63.5% comp rate and 5,000+ yards and 1 lost fumble with a QB rating approaching 100 he had just two years ago.

I don't think coaches have caused him to regress. Also, I think he is surround by pretty good folks - the OL is vastly improved since 2011, so is the running game with Bush/Bell, still has CJ, Nate, and Pett.

Honestly, we have to put this on Stafford's shoulders. He has been given the giant contract, the support system around him, consistent coaching, and leadership responsibilities. It is time for Stafford to step up - period! We ain't going far without him.

This is not entirely his fault. He needs to be coached. Surround him with better people, rely less on his arm and more on the run. Scale it back and the mistakes will limit themselves.

I agree with this 100%! The Lions throw the ball too damn much defenses don't have to stop the Lions running game they just have to wait till the Lions abandon it. I don't know many teams that play against 6 men the box as regular defense. Creating lots of traffic in the secondary. More teams will try to get 8 in the box before going to a passing attack.

Stafford has been asked to pass the ball more than any other QB in the NFL over the last 3 years.

When Peyton Manning who is widely considered the best QB in the NFL was Stafford's age he passed the ball over that 3 year period 300 times less and actually threw more interceptions 53 to Stafford's 50. Outside of Tom Brady most QB at Stafford's age Cutler, Romo, Brees all threw interceptions at higher rate than Stafford does at his age.

_________________The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

December 20th, 2013, 7:09 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10019Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Matthew Stafford must show more

Pablo wrote:

yostevo wrote:

This is not entirely his fault. He needs to be coached. Surround him with better people, rely less on his arm and more on the run. Scale it back and the mistakes will limit themselves.

He showed good progress in college, then again improved in each of his first 3 years in the NFL and now he is sliding backwards. I'll take 41 TDs to 16 INTs again with a 63.5% comp rate and 5,000+ yards and 1 lost fumble with a QB rating approaching 100 he had just two years ago.

I don't think coaches have caused him to regress. Also, I think he is surround by pretty good folks - the OL is vastly improved since 2011, so is the running game with Bush/Bell, still has CJ, Nate, and Pett.

Honestly, we have to put this on Stafford's shoulders. He has been given the giant contract, the support system around him, consistent coaching, and leadership responsibilities. It is time for Stafford to step up - period! We ain't going far without him.

I agree with Pablo on this one. The Lions have put talent around Stafford. The only thing they haven't done is give him a dedicated QB coach. I think that is needed. However, I also think they need to quit relying on Stafford when he is struggling. That is the primary reason this team has been losing games this season. They are putting the ball in Stafford's hands, and he's not in the right frame of mind to get the job done. He has lost confidence. How do you correct that? Often times, it's a matter of scaling back on his involvement with the offense. Run more, use more misdirection plays, having him throwing more screens or short, controlled passes. And by all means, tear apart the receivers when they drop a pass. I don't care if it is Ogletree, Durham or Calvin Johnson, if they drop a pass, pull them out of the game for that series. When they drop passes, it affects the QB. Trust me, I know. While he may not be at fault, it affects his confidence.

Stafford has taken a HUGE step backward this season. And it was pretty apparent at the beginning of the season he was not the same as he was last season. Even in pre-season he just didn't look comfortable, and his accuracy was really inconsistent. Last season he looked 'smoother' and just much more consistent.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

December 20th, 2013, 11:20 pm

yostevo

Heisman Winner

Joined: March 28th, 2005, 7:50 pmPosts: 816Location: Burbs of De-town

Re: Matthew Stafford must show more

Leo wrote:

Quote:

This is not entirely his fault. He needs to be coached. Surround him with better people, rely less on his arm and more on the run. Scale it back and the mistakes will limit themselves.

I agree with this 100%! The Lions throw the ball too damn much defenses don't have to stop the Lions running game they just have to wait till the Lions abandon it. I don't know many teams that play against 6 men the box as regular defense. Creating lots of traffic in the secondary. More teams will try to get 8 in the box before going to a passing attack.

Stafford has been asked to pass the ball more than any other QB in the NFL over the last 3 years.

When Peyton Manning who is widely considered the best QB in the NFL was Stafford's age he passed the ball over that 3 year period 300 times less and actually threw more interceptions 53 to Stafford's 50. Outside of Tom Brady most QB at Stafford's age Cutler, Romo, Brees all threw interceptions at higher rate than Stafford does at his age.

Nice stat finds. That helps put it into perspective for some I'm sure.

December 21st, 2013, 8:33 am

yostevo

Heisman Winner

Joined: March 28th, 2005, 7:50 pmPosts: 816Location: Burbs of De-town

Re: Matthew Stafford must show more

m2karateman wrote:

Pablo wrote:

yostevo wrote:

This is not entirely his fault. He needs to be coached. Surround him with better people, rely less on his arm and more on the run. Scale it back and the mistakes will limit themselves.

He showed good progress in college, then again improved in each of his first 3 years in the NFL and now he is sliding backwards. I'll take 41 TDs to 16 INTs again with a 63.5% comp rate and 5,000+ yards and 1 lost fumble with a QB rating approaching 100 he had just two years ago.

I don't think coaches have caused him to regress. Also, I think he is surround by pretty good folks - the OL is vastly improved since 2011, so is the running game with Bush/Bell, still has CJ, Nate, and Pett.

Honestly, we have to put this on Stafford's shoulders. He has been given the giant contract, the support system around him, consistent coaching, and leadership responsibilities. It is time for Stafford to step up - period! We ain't going far without him.

I agree with Pablo on this one. The Lions have put talent around Stafford. The only thing they haven't done is give him a dedicated QB coach. I think that is needed. However, I also think they need to quit relying on Stafford when he is struggling. That is the primary reason this team has been losing games this season. They are putting the ball in Stafford's hands, and he's not in the right frame of mind to get the job done. He has lost confidence. How do you correct that? Often times, it's a matter of scaling back on his involvement with the offense. Run more, use more misdirection plays, having him throwing more screens or short, controlled passes. And by all means, tear apart the receivers when they drop a pass. I don't care if it is Ogletree, Durham or Calvin Johnson, if they drop a pass, pull them out of the game for that series. When they drop passes, it affects the QB. Trust me, I know. While he may not be at fault, it affects his confidence.

Stafford has taken a HUGE step backward this season. And it was pretty apparent at the beginning of the season he was not the same as he was last season. Even in pre-season he just didn't look comfortable, and his accuracy was really inconsistent. Last season he looked 'smoother' and just much more consistent.

There's no doubt that Matt is second guessing himself right now. I guess I should explain that I meant surround him with better coaching not players. I think the players are talented enough, he's just not making them better. In fact, may be limiting them.

I think you nailed what Schwartz and Co. do the worst. In game adjustments. If Matt is just noticeably off, don't force the game plan. I know passing is your bread and butter but if it's not there, you have two pretty good RBs in that backfield. Stay patient and grind out first downs and play the field position game. So many teams do this and get away with it annually (Pitt,Cincy, Baltimore, Seattle, SF).

I've mentioned on these boards before that Stafford actually struggles quite a bit on the short throws where he needs to dial it back a bit. He doesn't throw the most catchable ball. He's firing it in there or not getting a bit of air under the swing passes. I think this helps explain his inaccuracies. He knows it's not his strength and he wants to force it down the field into coverage. I think this is correctable though, but again, he needs the right coaching around him.

December 21st, 2013, 8:54 am

Leo

5th Round Pick - Traded

Joined: January 11th, 2005, 11:35 pmPosts: 1081

Re: Matthew Stafford must show more

The Lions have put talent around Stafford?

Johnson is all world but everybody else kind of scrub I would take the Bears offense of Forte, Jefferies, Marshall and Bennett any day over for what passes as talent in Detroit.

Pettigrew and Bush first round picks but both classic underachievers. Starting to see why Bush was let go from the Saints and Dolphins.

Outside of that the rest of the skill positions are made up of undrafted free agents and wavier claims. Because they have blown every attempt to draft an offensive skill position Young, Leshoure, Broyles, Williams. What has been their best draft pick? Theo Riddick?

Somebody like Joseph Fauria has been real redone threat but is too slow and can't block to used anywhere else. Joique Bell is nice runner who the benefit of running against a six man box but has no speed to break a long run. Kris Durham is tall but horrible route runner with no speed.

I do think they have improved the offensive line with Reiff and Warford who are both solid picks and Waddle looks like a steal but Raiola has to go.

_________________The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

For me, this is one of the most convincing justifications for the current regime getting the boot: not getting enough out of Stafford. I think this article is incredibly premature: let's see what Stafford can do with a sharper OC and a proper QB coach (I know they have some jerk but I think he's younger than Stafford).

Probably not much better. The New CBA has put an end to QB's being in the building as much as the HC in the off season like they used to be. As a result, rookie QB's look so much more impressive than veterans because the have spent their off season doing football stuff.Until the NFL and NFLPA negotiate a change that allows QB's back into the building in the off season, it won't change. And every QB in the NFL will just get marginally worse each season until that happens. Brady and Peyton Manning might be the only exceptions because they topped out before the new CBA went into place.

Manning 'topped out'? He's having the best season of his career. I agree that the new CBA and the limitations on players being able to practice and be in the training facility has hurt. But that is what the players negotiated, so they are going to have to accept the fact that their level of play will suffer and as such fans will lash out.

But I do think a dedicated QB coach and a better OC can get more out of Stafford than what Linehan has been able to do. Sometimes Linehan has a decent game plan, but all too often he relies more on Stafford to make things happen than he should. Linehan abandons the running game too quickly, even when that portion of the offense is doing well. He has a struggling QB, and he continues to rely on him to march the team down the field in the fourth quarter. The OCs job is to be smarter than that and take pressure off the QB when possible, not throw him into the fire.

By topped out, I meant perfected their craft. No so much had their best year stats wise.

December 21st, 2013, 5:44 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10019Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Matthew Stafford must show more

Leo wrote:

The Lions have put talent around Stafford?

Johnson is all world but everybody else kind of scrub I would take the Bears offense of Forte, Jefferies, Marshall and Bennett any day over for what passes as talent in Detroit.

Pettigrew and Bush first round picks but both classic underachievers. Starting to see why Bush was let go from the Saints and Dolphins.

Outside of that the rest of the skill positions are made up of undrafted free agents and wavier claims. Because they have blown every attempt to draft an offensive skill position Young, Leshoure, Broyles, Williams. What has been their best draft pick? Theo Riddick?

Somebody like Joseph Fauria has been real redone threat but is too slow and can't block to used anywhere else. Joique Bell is nice runner who the benefit of running against a six man box but has no speed to break a long run. Kris Durham is tall but horrible route runner with no speed.

I do think they have improved the offensive line with Reiff and Warford who are both solid picks and Waddle looks like a steal but Raiola has to go.

Not every player at the skill positions can be super talented. Bush can be a game changer, and Bell can be a solid power back. Burleson, Pettigrew, Fauria, Durham.....all aren't on the same level as CJ, but they don't have to be. They may not be as good as Chicago's receiving corps, but a good QB makes the players around him better, not worse. Stafford is the BIGGEST underachiever of all the offensive skill players we have, bar none.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.