EDIT: I've been busy with other topics and have not put much work into updating my Ovale script. Leafkiller + tBot has posted an excellent cat/bear version here, and Mihir has posted a different-style cat version here. Please check them out, and follow this thread for updates. I *may* finish my own at some point, but we'll see.

I've popped this on my druid but done very little with him since. On a Toravon fight I tried to use it and didn't notice any major issues but I must admit I really struggle not to just go auto pilot so I end up not watching it.

I thought I might have noticed it queueing rakes to often (e.g. when already up and with several seconds left) but I need more time to be sure, its quite possible just me being nuts.

I put it on yesterday but found the layout so different from my own setup that I stopped using it. I normally have the next move suggestion on the far left and the TF and Mangle cooldowns on the far right.

I found that the insistence on having Fairie Fire up as the first move drove me mad also. My previous Ovale script (the one from EJ) would wait until a Mangle / Rake was up first before suggesting that.

Sorry about that mate - perhaps I need to play around with it some more on a test dummy, but I will revert for ICC tonight.

@Dab- Which setting were you using for FB's? I'm still running down a bug with the Lo/Hi FB logic.@Gren- You can turn suggest FF off if you'd like. I prefer it as the first move, as generally you want that armor debuff up ASAP.

Going to try your script this raid week. I appreciate the work in rewriting the script and hope to see the old script's bugs addressed.

At first glance...The layout is odd, not sure why we need three boxes. I know personally I have a set sound that plays when I get an ooc proc. I'm okay with having the script suggest to shred on an ooc proc, I just don't feel there is a need for a separate box. It took me quite some time to get used to the version 2.8a two box system, three boxes makes the mod feel like its taking up too much UI space.

The ferocious bite preferences seem to be bugged. "Few ferocious bites" suggests mangle and then strictly fb's regardless of combo points. "Many ferocious bites" seems to be working the way I would imagine the "Few f.b." option should function.

My two cents of the script after about 10minutes on a dummy, I will have better analysis in the up coming week. I'm currently saved to all raids

The box system is very modifiable. If you uncheck Show OOC Proc, that box will just stay empty and it will look exactly like the Leaf script. If you'd like, you can delete that portion of the script entirely and it'll go to two boxes flush with the small TF/Berserk boxes.I keep meaning to get in some dummy time to redo the FB logic and I keep getting sidetracked. Ovale's a bit wonky with how it handles expressions; it SHOULD work, but it doesn't. Honestly, for most people, NoFB is the way to go (I'll have a post up, hopefully soon, explaining my logic on this).

Can you point out where the change was made from 1.0 to 1.1 please. Its early in the morning and I can't seem to locate the change.

I have been using a modified version of Fatalsaints script from EJ for a while and just started trying yours through parts of ICC. So far it works well. I don't know if its a bug, but it seems to suggest SR for half a second and then Berserk upon the start of combat. Previous experience has been to get FF, Mangle, and SR up, then to use Berserk. I seem to get the highest dps from this rotation. This may be because of how my guild uses Heroism/BL and also allowing a bit more time to get all the raid debuffs up on the target.

This is the modified version of the 1.1 script. Noticed some of you were not happy with the line of large boxes. I felt the same. This script makes Berserk, TF, and next action boxes small boxes and around the main action box. I also added in a Feral Charge cd box.

# actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=3&buff.savage_roar.remains-dot.rip.remains<=3&buff.savage_roar.remains<=8if {ComboPoints(more 2) and BuffExpires(ROAR 8) and TargetDeadIn(more 8) and less than 4s between BuffExpires(ROAR) and TargetDebuffExpires(RIP mine=1)} Spell(ROAR)

# actions+=/mangle_cat,mangle<=1if {TargetDebuffExpires(MANGLE 1) and TargetDebuffExpires(MANGLEB 1) and TargetDebuffExpires(TRAUMA 1)} Spell(MANGLE) # has to be "and" here to check for all three

# actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=3&buff.savage_roar.remains-dot.rip.remains<=3&buff.savage_roar.remains<=8if {ComboPoints(more 2) and BuffExpires(ROAR 8) and TargetDeadIn(more 8) and less than 4s between BuffExpires(ROAR) and TargetDebuffExpires(RIP mine=1)} Spell(ROAR)

I'm going to give the new script a go this weekend in ICC. Wish me luck. Once I removed all the Suggest options, the core suggestions seemed ok to me. It would probably be best on a dummy though, as with the 20% ICC buff all my numbers are going to look great.

A couple of things I am wondering about (just looking at the script right now). I was not sure whether to post this here or on your Simcraft thread since it concerns both your script and your testing.

You put Rip refreshing ahead of SR clipping without checking how much time is left on SR or how much energy you have. If low on energy that could result in a small amount of SR downtime. You have relocated the early clip of SR pretty far down the script now. Your change will increase Rip uptime but will also likely result in more single combo point SRs and a slightly lower SR uptime.

In your simcraft testing, have you tried checking for rake on OOC vs always doing shred? Without having measured it, my gut feeling is that if Rake is expiring it is more valuable to refresh it with or without an OOC then it is to Shred.

With the change to 12s/12s for FB, what uptimes are you measuring for Rip/Rake. Also, did you factor in any points in Feral Aggression (since it is easier to spec for that now that Mangle has a 1 minute cooldown).

A general comment - could you post your gear choices/spec assumptions on your Simcraft thread? For example, what enchant are you using on your weapon?

Hey Leaf, thanks for stopping by, and your original work on the script.Just so we're looking at the same numbers, I've been using the built-in Druidt10005516m profile located here and removing the bleed debuff so it's forced to mangle. (zerker enchant, btw; that's probably not optimal, but I'd rather focus on profile changes rather than gear/spec changes, to compare apples to apples.) I do need to drop that into the SC thread, I suppose.

You put Rip refreshing ahead of SR clipping without checking how much time is left on SR or how much energy you have. If low on energy that could result in a small amount of SR downtime.

Good point, though the difference is very small, it's a slight improvement. (~10 DPS). I'll add a if=buff.savage_roar.remains>=1 condition to Rip. With Rip's energy cost being so low with T10, I don't think we need an energy condition as well, though it may be an optimization for less-geared ferals.

You have relocated the early clip of SR pretty far down the script now. Your change will increase Rip uptime but will also likely result in more single combo point SRs and a slightly lower SR uptime.

I've tried it both ways and found the DPS differences to be within the margin of error. FWIW, it's a 0.2% difference in Rip uptime, and SR uptime remains constant (though SC doesn't track a third sig fig for SR uptime, so it's just 99% both ways)

In your simcraft testing, have you tried checking for rake on OOC vs always doing shred? Without having measured it, my gut feeling is that if Rake is expiring it is more valuable to refresh it with or without an OOC then it is to Shred.

With an OOC, it's a small loss (~10 DPS) to use it on a Rake. Over a 5m fight, you end up with roughly 1 extra Rake tick vs 1 extra Shred. Without an OOC, it's already refreshing Rake over Shred unless you need the shreds for the glyph.

With the change to 12s/12s for FB, what uptimes are you measuring for Rip/Rake. Also, did you factor in any points in Feral Aggression (since it is easier to spec for that now that Mangle has a 1 minute cooldown).

I'm pretty positive I can increase DPS on this profile by loosening the FB criteria and sacrificing R/R uptime, but I'm also pretty positive that that will decrease DPS for most other profiles which aren't close to ArP cap, plus it requires quite a bit of skill. Hence my creation of the FB selection option. Anyway: Low(12/12): Rake 88.0%, Rip 89.7%, 3.4 FBs, 14063 DPS.High(8/8): Rake 87.1%, Rip 87.2%, 7 FBs, 14101 DPS.

One improvement I'd like to see, is some indication of when it's safe to do a filler-shred without fucking up your main dps rotation too much, energy-wise. Right now as far as I can see, it pretty much always shows the icon for filler-shred regardless of the need to refresh rake/rip in 2 seconds. Furion's script added some anti-main rotation clauses to the shred command to accomplish this.

if {TargetDebuffPresent(MANGLE 0.6) or TargetDebuffPresent(MANGLEB 0.6) or TargetDebuffPresent(TRAUMA 0.6)} and TargetDebuffPresent(RAKE 0.6 mine=1) and {Mana(more 79) or BuffPresent(OMEN) or {TargetDebuffExpires(RIP 3 mine=1) and ComboPoints(less 5)} or BuffPresent(BERSERK) or 2s before Spell(TIGER) or {ComboPoints(less 1) and BuffExpires(ROAR 2)}} Spell(SHRED)

1. Always Shred on OOC: Should be OFF by default.It costs DPS by causing Rip/Rake to run off or wasting CPs for FB.

2. Maybe you should consider to not always suggest something, because sometimes the suggestion I would give is to wait, pool energy and then refresh Rip or SR, depending on CPs / Durations. Thats a problem of all scripts I checked out. I think that playstyle would lead to less wasted SR uptime, less wasted CPs, less Rip downtimes.

3. The most right box is very well done. Good job! Same is true for the middle, OOC proc, box

4. FB is suggested (can only speak for my gear) extremely rarely.

5. I want to underline my 2. point.

6. Most Ovale scripts assume that the player is following them by 100%, which is not the case - Have no example with your script, just a general idea, maybe you can countercheck this.

7. I wouldn't use FFF on 100% energy, because of its global cd - Only when running towards the mob, because of the range, which imho the script should not assume.

Disclaimer: I can be wrong. The above statements just reflect my impressions, maybe you can proof the opposite.

Nyri, thanks for the feedback! Always appreciated. Here's my response:1. Shred on OOC is a DPS increase, as tested via Simulationcraft, even if Rip/Rake is down. I'm very positive of this for Rip (you effectively trade 20 energy for half a Rip tick...not a good trade) and mostly positive for Rake. Open to discussion, though.2. Yeah, I'd like to work on this for the next version of the script.3. Thanks!4. That's correct. FB is only a DPS increase when used in VERY specific cases.5. 2)6. Not quite sure what you're suggesting here. Ovale has a "score" function where you can output to Recount how closely you followed the script, but I don't see it as being that useful. If someone really wanted it, I could write it in, and I might do it anyway if I get bored.7. FFF is suggested if the debuff is not present on the mob. Especially for 25M, the 5% armor debuff will increase raid DPS much more then it will lower your personal DPS, so it needs to go up ASAP.

So maybe thats the reason why nobody is using such condition: IMO its not a good idea to base everything on simc if its so weak.Or can someone tell me how to run the above script?

Edit: finally got it to work with if=(energy<=85)

personal DPS increase was only 1-2 dps for 10 second fights

Edit #2: energy_regen was always at 92.4 and overflow 2.6% and energy_cap 3.3%, so the code does not seem to work

Just to clarify #6:I mean simcraft is a robot: it follows the script by 100%, but a player is not and thus he will face situations which never occurred in the simulator before. Maybe he cant fulfill because he has to move or things like that. with a simple priority list that is not an issue but maybe with complex rip/sr desync logic, you will maybe not handle the cases which should not be possible if the player does not make mistakes.

SimC's not broken, there just isn't that large a difference between FFF as first action vs. Mangle/FFF or Mangle/SR/FFF.

regards point 6: I THINK you're arguing that the rotation is too complicated in SimC and causes player mistakes; I'd agree, actually. However, SimC lets us know which optimizations aren't all that important, DPS-wise (see above) and which are (focusing on FB over Rip, for example)

I used your script in an ICC 25 raid that I ran on Monday evening. The best fight for me to guage it on was Saurfang since it's a straight stand and let loose fight. Overall I think the script did a great job. FB's were fairly rare till his health was way down. However, I did notice one thing that I'm not even sure any script can handle.

Savage Roar had over 15 seconds remaining and rip was right behind it by 1 to 3 seconds. I had 5 combo points and since the boss was at 70% or so the script suggested I keep doing shreds. This is all fine except that when SR got to about 5 or 6 seconds it then suggested to renew SR. Now with the GCD, zero combo points and next to zero enegery rip was not refreshed as quickly as possible. In the best circumstances it will take 2 shreds and a rake to get 5 combo points which means 10 seconds or so? You are much better at the math then I am so I'm sure you can get the exact amount of time it takes to get 5 combo points.

So rip was down for like 5 seconds maybe even more. I noticed this situation at least twice where I had to wait some time to get combo points in order to refresh rip.

I'm not sure if the script has any logic that knows how long it takes to get 5 combo points for a rip and then making sure rip is refreshed as quickly as possible but this might improve the overall DPS.

One final point. It seems that the script almost always requires a mangle near the start but then I never saw it the rest of the fight. We only had one other druid who was a boomkin and we did have a warrior. So not sure if this is an issue or not. Next time I do it I will set up a need to know chceck to see if mangle or other bleeds are on the boss.

I was able to pay very close attention to the script when doing VOA last night. The mangle and bleeds does work just fine. The script overall I think is really good. You have done a good job on it.

I would offer one suggestion as I kind of pointed out in my previous post. I think we all agree that keeping rip up is a top priority. But once again SR had around 14 seconds and rip had 16 seconds on the timers. I was at 4 combo points. The script suggested shred and then another shred.

The issue is that rip was down too long before it was refreshed. Had nothing to do with energy just the suggestion on shred, SR and rip. I think it might be better to approach it this way.

Determine how long it will take to get 5 combo points and then compare that to the time left on rip minus a GCD. Also check to see if SR is going to expire before rip. If the time equals each other then you need to refresh SR with whatever combo points are there. This will leave just enough time to get the 5 combo points (or maybe a couple short depending on crits) to refresh rip.

This situation only happens when SR will expire before rip does and it will leave rip off for more then an attack and GCD. Just a suggestion.

I tried out your script earlier tonight on 25 man heroic Festergut and compared the results to my parses from previous weeks. The one thing that stood out was a shift in DPS - Shred DPS was higher and Rip DPS was lower. Also my Rip/Rake uptimes were down considerably (10%). Looking over your script (and comparing it to what I have been using) I see two things, one of which I have adjusted and one which I have left alone.

First, Rip/Rake uptime will be lower from prioritizing Shred for OOC procs versus simply executing whatever is next in the DPS cycle. I did not change this based on your measurements in Simcraft indicating this is a DPS up.

Second (which may be a result of the OOC change) I noticed in my test dummy runs that SR clipping did not seem to be happening as often. Comparing the logic in the two scripts I could not find anything obvious other than you did not include a priority value to ensure that SR clipping would happen. I added "priority = 4" to the SR lines to ensure that those conditions would always come before any others (including Omen/Shred). That seemed to help get Rip uptime higher (this is from eyeballing it). I will do further tests in a raid environment to confirm.

I also changed the code for the second main rotation ICON, removing a lot more "fillers" to get it down to the core rotation cooldowns. Here is the script I am testing with right now:

# actions+=/mangle_cat,mangle<=1if {TargetDebuffExpires(MANGLE 1) and TargetDebuffExpires(MANGLEB 1) and TargetDebuffExpires(TRAUMA 1)} Spell(MANGLE) # has to be "and" here to check for all three

# actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=3&buff.savage_roar.remains-dot.rip.remains<=3&buff.savage_roar.remains<=8if {ComboPoints(more 2) and BuffExpires(ROAR 8) and TargetDeadIn(more 8) and less than 4s between BuffExpires(ROAR) and TargetDebuffExpires(RIP mine=1)} Spell(ROAR priority=4)

# actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=3&buff.savage_roar.remains-dot.rip.remains<=3&buff.savage_roar.remains<=8if {ComboPoints(more 2) and BuffExpires(ROAR 8) and TargetDeadIn(more 8) and less than 4s between BuffExpires(ROAR) and TargetDebuffExpires(RIP mine=1)} Spell(ROAR)