As to the thread question, I dI think some people have seen L23 as the oldest so far identified L21 downstream SNP. What is variance telling us?

Yes, although we now know that DF49 is upstream of DF23 (I think you mean DF23 not L23).

The interclade ages between DF23 (or just use the M222 data) and other major groups like DF23, L513 or the Scotls modal folks is quite high. DF49/DF23 must have been an early branch off L21, or I guess we should say off DF13. It's not really that DF23 is old, just that its branch off of DF13 is old. It is worth noting that that some of the DF23* branches, like the Wales SW England branch, have old interclade ages with M222 so DF23 does in fact have an "old" coalescence age whereas M222 does not.

The 49-23-21-HyM variety has an STR signature that includes 413a<=21 511=11557=17 565=11 (456=15 481=24). Those that have tested so far, have come back asDF23*. I encourage testing for DF23 for anyone in this variety.

I frequently analyze long haplotypes in the Irish, Scottish and British FTDNAprojects looking for matches. Occasionally I'll look at other geographies andfound an interesting prospect for DF23 testing. He fits this variety pattern andhere are his closest GDs in it. Nothing really close, but perhaps there isancient connection between Bodamer and the rest?fB1536 Bodamer - Germany, Baden-Württenberg, Grünwettersbach 49-23-21-HyM TXC93