I'd probably class myself in the bracket he put Radlinski and O'Loughlin in, and I've played with many lads who live and have been brought up in surroundings far less amenable than I was lucky enough to have been nurtured in. I've been to Uni and am now Professionally qualified in my chosen career.

And here's the big statement; despite us loving the same sport and being good team mates, in many ways we would have almost nothing in common. Furthermore our mindset and approach to playing the game couldn't be more different if we tried.

If these lads I played with hadn't have played Rugby League they would have been causing serious bother somewhere else. Even with the game as an outlet for their frustrations etc. they were still more than guilty of going off the rails at the weekends.

I also like the comment about "Under Class" and "Working Class"- there is a distinct difference and mindset for each bracket, and the latter have nothing to be ashamed of.

The former however has a growing presence and it's unfavorable values and typical behaviour is becoming far more prevalent......especially in Highly Paid Premiership footballers who've come from this background.

I'd probably class myself in the bracket he put Radlinski and O'Loughlin in, and I've played with many lads who live and have been brought up in surroundings far less amenable than I was lucky enough to have been nurtured in. I've been to Uni and am now Professionally qualified in my chosen career.

And here's the big statement; despite us loving the same sport and being good team mates, in many ways we would have almost nothing in common. Furthermore our mindset and approach to playing the game couldn't be more different if we tried.

If these lads I played with hadn't have played Rugby League they would have been causing serious bother somewhere else. Even with the game as an outlet for their frustrations etc. they were still more than guilty of going off the rails at the weekends.

I also like the comment about "Under Class" and "Working Class"- there is a distinct difference and mindset for each bracket, and the latter have nothing to be ashamed of.

The former however has a growing presence and it's unfavorable values and typical behaviour is becoming far more prevalent......especially in Highly Paid Premiership footballers who've come from this background.

I prefer to use "(Non-working) class" as opposed to "underclass" because the people referred to have never worked a day in their life and live handsomely off benefits in low-rent council flats/houses whilst working class people on low pay often pay massive rents in private lettings. I would like to see the emergence of a live-in modern-day workhouse (inc. good schooling) to accommodate these "(Non-working) class" chavs and their kids (i.e. a bit like a room in a nurses home)

I prefer to use "(Non-working) class" as opposed to "underclass" because the people referred to have never worked a day in their life and live handsomely off benefits in low-rent council flats/houses whilst working class people on low pay often pay massive rents in private lettings. I would like to see the emergence of a live-in modern-day workhouse (inc. good schooling) to accommodate these "(Non-working) class" chavs and their kids (i.e. a bit like a room in a nurses home)

ZZZZZZ... we back to the old "Working class sport" threads.. Before getting into a Prolier than thou tussle with some of you. bear in mind that the sports played by children educated in state schools depend entirely upon the facilities that school has and the inclination that the Teachers have towards Sports.For example I go past Tonbridge School which has first class Cricket and Union facilities which other schools in this area of Kent don't have. So your chances of progressing are obviously greater. Now because of the decline of state school sport, some sports are now trying to reach state sector children through initiatives such as chance to shine and the activities of the Wooden Spoon Society .When you consider the non-growth of Rugby League as a sport consider how many state schools have league as a "games" option and how much development work is actually through the random selection method of local clubs. So yes Tez, Rugby League is one sporting option allowing kids to progress from a deprived background provided they get the chance to play the game in the first place.

I am an oil trader and successful at that but, but marketing, finance, business management, human resources etc are not my strengths

I went to a sportsman's evening with Shaun Wayne a couple of years ago. Shaun said that when the Wigan directors came down his street to sign him the kids flocked around their BMW. They'd never seen a tax disc before.

"This is a very wealthy country, money is no object" D. Cameron February 2014

I don't see the fact that rugby league isn't popular with people of all classes as a virtue myself.

Soccer is a working class game, it is also a middle class game and very likely an upper middle and upper class game too.

That's something to be proud of.

Rugby league is a working class game that has some support in the middle class and very little "above" that.

The benefit i would say is that it gives you a base which seem pretty loyal to the choices they make. Think back to soccer pre-1990 - caged in sections, serious chance of injury and even death just from attending a game, despised by the mainstream in the main, terrible grounds, banned from europe. But the working class base never abandoned the game, which meant when the opportunity came to expand its popularity it was still in relative rude health. Without that loyalty i would argue even soccer would have been in danger of collapse in the 80s.But i agree that diversifying that base is essential for long term prosperity. Im personally looking forward to the prawn sandwiches cuz i have to tell you all - the food at rugby league games is uniformly terrible. And i'm a council estate boy.

PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF http://www.rugbyleaguecares.org/ and http://www.walesrugb...-wales-for-2013Predictions for the future -Crusaders RL to get a franchise for 2012 onwards -WRONGWidnes Vikings also to get a franchise - RIGHTCrusaders RL to do the double over Widnes and finish five places ahead of them -WRONGWidnes Vikings NOT to dominate rugby league in years to come! STILL TO COME

The benefit i would say is that it gives you a base which seem pretty loyal to the choices they make. Think back to soccer pre-1990 - caged in sections, serious chance of injury and even death just from attending a game, despised by the mainstream in the main, terrible grounds, banned from europe. But the working class base never abandoned the game, which meant when the opportunity came to expand its popularity it was still in relative rude health. Without that loyalty i would argue even soccer would have been in danger of collapse in the 80s.But i agree that diversifying that base is essential for long term prosperity. Im personally looking forward to the prawn sandwiches cuz i have to tell you all - the food at rugby league games is uniformly terrible. And i'm a council estate boy.

If they are so loyal, how come we won't ever get anything like the 140,000 (or so) who turned up for that game at Odsall?

Or even the numbers who used to watch lower league or international rugby?

The truth is that whilst the game has had a renaissance post 1995, it hasn't been uniform and the last thing I would say of league fans is that they are loyal. You only need look at the Bulls' attendances to see what a fickle lot leaguies are.

The benefit i would say is that it gives you a base which seem pretty loyal to the choices they make. Think back to soccer pre-1990 - caged in sections, serious chance of injury and even death just from attending a game, despised by the mainstream in the main, terrible grounds, banned from europe. But the working class base never abandoned the game, which meant when the opportunity came to expand its popularity it was still in relative rude health. Without that loyalty i would argue even soccer would have been in danger of collapse in the 80s.But i agree that diversifying that base is essential for long term prosperity. Im personally looking forward to the prawn sandwiches cuz i have to tell you all - the food at rugby league games is uniformly terrible. And i'm a council estate boy.

Well I hate prawns, in fact I hate all crustaceans (nothing personal just as food) and the pies at Fev are ace.

"This is a very wealthy country, money is no object" D. Cameron February 2014

Well I hate prawns, in fact I hate all crustaceans (nothing personal just as food) and the pies at Fev are ace.

Last crusaders game i wen to, i couldn't even get any couscous. I mean for fooks sake.

PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF http://www.rugbyleaguecares.org/ and http://www.walesrugb...-wales-for-2013Predictions for the future -Crusaders RL to get a franchise for 2012 onwards -WRONGWidnes Vikings also to get a franchise - RIGHTCrusaders RL to do the double over Widnes and finish five places ahead of them -WRONGWidnes Vikings NOT to dominate rugby league in years to come! STILL TO COME

If they are so loyal, how come we won't ever get anything like the 140,000 (or so) who turned up for that game at Odsall?

Or even the numbers who used to watch lower league or international rugby?

The truth is that whilst the game has had a renaissance post 1995, it hasn't been uniform and the last thing I would say of league fans is that they are loyal. You only need look at the Bulls' attendances to see what a fickle lot leaguies are.

Well 8k attendances for this bulls team in that big hole they call odsal is pretty bloody loyal in my opinion. Comparing anything to the post-war boom which hit all sports when it died is a bit meaningless. Plymouth argyle used to have a 30k average in the 50s, it was blip but the underlying trend suggests a irreducible loyalty which ignores fashion, safety or any other factors.

PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF http://www.rugbyleaguecares.org/ and http://www.walesrugb...-wales-for-2013Predictions for the future -Crusaders RL to get a franchise for 2012 onwards -WRONGWidnes Vikings also to get a franchise - RIGHTCrusaders RL to do the double over Widnes and finish five places ahead of them -WRONGWidnes Vikings NOT to dominate rugby league in years to come! STILL TO COME

Well 8k attendances for this bulls team in that big hole they call odsal is pretty bloody loyal in my opinion. Comparing anything to the post-war boom which hit all sports when it died is a bit meaningless. Plymouth argyle used to have a 30k average in the 50s, it was blip but the underlying trend suggests a irreducible loyalty which ignores fashion, safety or any other factors.

If I was to compare Leeds United attendances now and then; the difference probably wouldn't be so dramatic. Certain soccer teams are probably higher than they were back then.

Over time, rugby league has gone from being the dominant sport in the M62 corridor in the Victorian age (even if the M62 didn't exist) to a poor second to soccer everywhere (except perhaps Wigan or the Wakey area and even that is debatable).

The fact that rugby league wasn't supported in large numbers by the affluent classes is very much part of this decline. It meant that the sport doesn't seem "aspirational" and we get treated poorly as a result.

If I was to compare Leeds United attendances now and then; the difference probably wouldn't be so dramatic. Certain soccer teams are probably higher than they were back then.

Over time, rugby league has gone from being the dominant sport in the M62 corridor in the Victorian age (even if the M62 didn't exist) to a poor second to soccer everywhere (except perhaps Wigan or the Wakey area and even that is debatable).

The fact that rugby league wasn't supported in large numbers by the affluent classes is very much part of this decline. It meant that the sport doesn't seem "aspirational" and we get treated poorly as a result.

I fail to recognise all this clap trap that League is solely for thickies and thugs. I recall my daughter being at uni with a certain Joe Lydon, and Lewis Jones and many others of that ilk would be horrified to be classed as roughs. When I came to Wales I recall a professor at Cardiff Uni asking me if I recalled WHT- Willie Davies of Bradford. I answered yes and had a friend for life. I have known a number of skilled soccer players whose brains remained in their boots.We all love our League whatever our supposed class, and please stop trying to put ourselves down

I fail to recognise all this clap trap that League is solely for thickies and thugs. I recall my daughter being at uni with a certain Joe Lydon, and Lewis Jones and many others of that ilk would be horrified to be classed as roughs. When I came to Wales I recall a professor at Cardiff Uni asking me if I recalled WHT- Willie Davies of Bradford. I answered yes and had a friend for life. I have known a number of skilled soccer players whose brains remained in their boots.We all love our League whatever our supposed class, and please stop trying to put ourselves down

Why are you assuming that saying that out support is from the rough end of the scale means thickies and thugs?

PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF http://www.rugbyleaguecares.org/ and http://www.walesrugb...-wales-for-2013Predictions for the future -Crusaders RL to get a franchise for 2012 onwards -WRONGWidnes Vikings also to get a franchise - RIGHTCrusaders RL to do the double over Widnes and finish five places ahead of them -WRONGWidnes Vikings NOT to dominate rugby league in years to come! STILL TO COME

I fail to recognise all this clap trap that League is solely for thickies and thugs. I recall my daughter being at uni with a certain Joe Lydon, and Lewis Jones and many others of that ilk would be horrified to be classed as roughs. When I came to Wales I recall a professor at Cardiff Uni asking me if I recalled WHT- Willie Davies of Bradford. I answered yes and had a friend for life. I have known a number of skilled soccer players whose brains remained in their boots.We all love our League whatever our supposed class, and please stop trying to put ourselves down

I don't believe that there is anything inherent in RL that makes it a game for thickies and thugs, nor do I believe it to be generally true. There is an enormous difference between "working class" and either "thickie" or "thug".

I mean, he's got me to rights; working class, brought up on a council estate in Bradford and educated in schools officially recognised as amongst the worst in the country. What other game would I be watching?

I mean, he's got me to rights; working class, brought up on a council estate in Bradford and educated in schools officially recognised as amongst the worst in the country. What other game would I be watching?

I was also brought up by Bradford schooling and we lived in a back to back, didn't qualify for a council house. My schooling was done in the forces, and my life is now in uni's, but I love my League always have, and hate to be put down by anyone.Stevo gets one thing right and that is we have the greatest game, and we sadly let ourselves down by not promotong our game. Soccer has done a great job of marketing theirs which actually can very often be very poor entertainment.Sadly, we apper to be stuck in our northern roots, and we really should be ensuring that we have solid sides in London and Wales.