David Lee had 18 points and six rebounds, reserve Jermaine O’Neal added 17 points and eight rebounds, and the Golden State Warriors returned home to beat the Atlanta Hawks 111-97 Friday night for their third straight win.

Dirk Nowitzki scored 22 points, Devin Harris hit the go-ahead shot in the final minute, and the host Dallas Mavericks rallied in the fourth quarter to beat the Portland Trail Blazers after blowing a 30-point lead.

The mood of Friday night’s Knicks game was set early when moments before the singing of the national anthem a disgruntled fan’s voice could be heard stabbing through the silence. “Fire Dolan!” he yelled of the team’s unpopular chairman.

Phil Jackson has been offered a front-office position with the Knicks and is expected to give the club a decision sometime next week, the Daily News has learned. According to an NBA source, Garden chairman James Dolan has met with Jackson about a potential return to the franchise with which he won the Knicks’ only two championships as a player.

Carmelo Anthony scored 29 points on Friday night but his biggest shot was directed at a report that said Joakim Noah was trying to recruit him to the Bulls. “No, not at all,” Anthony said when asked if there was any truth to the story after Friday’s 108-81 win against the Utah Jazz.

Phil Jackson is notorious for not getting along with agents, probably can’t name three quarters of the players in the NBA and would find it beneath himself to pick up a phone to make a trade, if he even knew whom to call.

54 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.03.08)”

Why is it that I keep reading that Carmelo staying is so important? I understand the unbelievable irony of the huge amounts of assets we gave up to get him, and it’s staggering how much would be gone, but at this point, just for salary structure implications wouldn’t it be better for him just to walk? Of course, a sign and trade would be possible, right? Especially since Melo would want a destination with some talent in place.

Can we ever, at this point, create a deep enough roster around Carmelo Anthony?

If I’m not mistaken, Kurylo, thinks we should let him walk. Why don’t I read this type of sentiment more?

Yeah, I think the consensus is Melo at $20 million or less is a good idea. More, probably not ($21 million, I guess, but at that point it’s like “If you’re willing to leave money on the table, you should be willing to leave enough on the table for it to be meaningful,” so I doubt we’ll see him ask for, say, $22 million instead of $25 million. I think it’ll either be $25 million or $20 million/less).

Before you can answer this question you need to have an idea what the team/future would look like if Melo just walked. Obviously 2014-15 would be a total disaster of a season but it’d be very difficult to know whether it’d be a Milwaukee-like season or another season like this. 1/3 of the league is trying to tank this year, and it’ll probably be the same next year. Can we guarantee we’ll be like Milwaukee or Philly or are we more likely to end up in the scrum from say 4th pick to 8th pick? And is that player at #s 4-8 going to be good enough to lead us out of this mess?

Then there’s the matter of not having any second round picks ever and no 1st rounder in 2016. Sure, we’ll have tons of cap space but are the marquee guys really going to come here after we just tanked the previous season and drafted a “solid starter” level player in the draft?

What bona fide coach would come to coach this roster without Melo?

We just played a team last night in the Jazz that traded their marquee player for what at the time was considered a great haul for them. They got Favors (a top 3 pick), Devin Harris (solid starter), and 2 #1 picks, one of which ended up the #3 pick in the draft. They drafted Enes Kanter, and ended up trading their own #14 pick and the Nets’ #21 pick to get Trey Burke, who looks pretty pretty terrible at this point. Favors is basically a talented bust, Harris is basically holding on, Enes Kanter is bad. And now they’re in the running again for a top 3 pick, 4 seasons after making a GOOD trade of their superstar.

And then there’s Charlotte. And Cleveland. And Sacramento. And let’s not forget Denver, who is awful after fleecing us back in the MeloDrama. And those teams HAD their full complement of picks and they still stink year after year.

Whether or not we think Melo is a top-10 player, sometime there’s something to be said for the bird in hand. All things considered I think we really need him back.

You can’t compare New York to those teams, though, since New York is still, you know, New York. Those teams have to position themselves to be good before any free agent would dream of signing with them. The Knicks can get a major free agent to come here to START the process. Those other teams could never dream of that. So we can’t really compare the Knicks to teams that have to build through the draft. The Knicks are in a unique position in the league that really only three other teams can compare to (heck, perhaps just one, the Lakers, as the Clippers and the Nets are not really marquee teams yet. You could possibly argue for Chicago, as well).

You can’t compare New York to those teams, though, since New York is still, you know, New York. Those teams have to position themselves to be good before any free agent would dream of signing with them. The Knicks can get a major free agent to come here to START the process. Those other teams could never dream of that.

Maybe yes maybe no. Which of the marquee 2015 free agents is both worth the money and is likely to want to come to NY? The only FA that is possibly worth the full max is Love. And he’s definitely going to the Lakers. And that’s the issue – we will not be the only “marquee” location with space in 2015. The Lakers are sure to have max cap room. Dallas will have max cap room. The Bulls can have max cap room. Boston can sell players on a clean cap and every Atlantic Division 1st round pick through 2018, as well as march Bill Russell and his 100 rings to get guys to come. Even Miami might have max cap room if 1 or 2 of the big 3 opt out, which they’re likely to do.

We absolutely cannot let Melo just walk. If he leaves we need to get at least something back. Otherwise the cupboard is bare and no one of any skill will want the coaching or front office positions. We’ll end up overpaying for Rondo, trading for Tyreke Evans, etc. If we do a S&T with Melo maybe we can at least get 1-2 draft picks, an expiring contract, and a promising young player – that might at least be enough to get the right leadership in here.

Oh sure, I agree that they can’t just let him walk. Him walking for nothing is close to my worst case scenario (him taking the max is my worst case scenario). I’m just saying that we can’t compare a Knick rebuilding process to a Utah rebuilding process or a Charlotte rebuilding process or a Denver rebuilding process or a Cleveland rebuilding process. Those are teams where their stars try to leave them to come to New York, ya know?

Of course we can let Melo walk. If we had a non moron running things it just gives us a chance to completely reboot. which isn’t easy, and would take some luck and some patience. or we could resign Melo and try to build around him, which will also take luck and patience. There’s no easy way forward.

If Melo stays there is no chance we enter 2015 free agency with space for 2 max guys. It is inevitable that we will use the expirings of STAT, Tyson and Bargs to bring in players that may make us slightly better in the short term, but wouldn’t come anywhere close to pushing us into championship contention while costing us cap space in 2015. I fully expect us to make a trade with New Orleans for Eric Gordon.

Honestly I don’t think we can reboot with just 1 draft pick in the next 2 years. The only other tradeable pieces are either young and cheap (which is what we want to keep, not trade), or make too much money to have significant value (Tyson). And we’ve already seen what is likely to happen when there’s huge cap $ burning a hole in the pocket. Even RC Buford couldn’t get a respectable team on the floor for us until probably 2017, and even then there are no guarantees.

I think it’s much better to try to get Melo to sign a below-market deal like ephus suggested – $20MM/year average – but structure it such that our cap space is maximized in 2015.

I think it’s much better to try to get Melo to sign a below-market deal like ephus suggested – $20MM/year average – but structure it such that our cap space is maximized in 2015.

Of course it is much better. It is the dream scenario. It is just a question of it is a real possibility. If so, then yes, clearly, Melo at a significant discount is the best thing the Knicks can hope for.

I agree with Frank. We’re going to have to pay max salary to get a player of Melo’s caliber and probably trade stuff too. It’s easier to keep him. And good players do want to play with him.

Who is disagreeing? Is anyone here saying that they’d prefer to let Melo walk over signing him for a significantly reduced contract? It was just a question of “What is better? Melo walking or Melo taking the super max.” That is an actual worthwhile debate. Of those two bad scenarios, I think I’d prefer to let him walk but they’re both bad scenarios. “Melo walk or Melo take a reduced salary” is a non-starter. Of course you prefer him at a reduced salary to losing him for nothing.

btw not to get in the way of planning for the future, but our current starting lineup of Felton/JR/Melo/Amare/Chandler (which most here would not have chosen) is a +10/100 poss in about 80 minutes together on the floor. Since March 1st they have played 59 of those minutes and for those 59, they are a +~28/100 poss. Small samples against questionable competition, but color me surprised.

Reasonable for what? Let’s be a bit generous to Melo and say he’s been the 15th most valuable player in the NBA this year. We’re probably going to be, at best, a mediocre team next year. In 2 years, is Melo still going to be the 15th most valuable guy in the league? Is, say, the 25th most valuable player in the league going to be worth a low 20 million price tag? (I’m legitimately asking) And then you have to consider the increased risk of injury/more significant decline that comes with age.

I think so, yes. If the cap is $62 million next year, it will likely be at $65-66 million in 2015. Melo at $20 million leaves a whole lot of extra room (Melo at $18 million would be even better, of course). As far as aging, I think Melo’s two biggest skills are his size and his outside shooting and neither of those are likely to change much in a few years. It’s not like he’s a guy who makes his bones off of quickness.

A sign and trade of Melo to Chicago, with Mirotic and at least one first round pick coming back, would be a nice start for a rebuild. As was mentioned yesterday, the Knicks would be doing Chicago a huge favor by taking Carlos Boozer’s contract, so it’s not out of the question that we could even get two first rounders plus Mirotic.

Then you just tank the 2014-2015 season, and then heading into 2016 you have Mirotic, your own first round pick plus whatever picks you got from the Bulls, plus cap space. Boom.

A S&T potentially could get a decent return. Even though it’s a big gamble, I’d certainly consider swapping him for the Laker’s first rounder this year (among other things)… but I think the Lakers are hamstrung in terms of picks they can give up (like some other idiot franchise I know).

But why not sign him? Even at the super max, you don’t think he has trade value? I mean, it’s a bad contract, but what if the rebuild in Orlando stalls out next year and somebody gets an itchy trigger finger and they suddenly are willing to give up Oladipo and a couple of picks to get themselves on track for the playoffs? Obviously the more favorable a contract they can convince him to take, the better. So, we’ll see. I’ll be disappointed if they throw the supermax at him IN SPITE of him actually SAYING he would take less to stay… but otherwise, I’m OK keeping him around.

I agree with DRed. How much surplus will Melo be delivering two to four years down the road where it might actually matter?

The Nuggets had season ending injuries to Mcgee and Gallinari, two of their three best players and lost Lawson for another 10 games. They let the best young gm in the league go and then celebrated his departure by acquiring JJ Hickson to play the position they were strongest at.

And with all that, they have won more games than the Knicks since the trade in a far more competitive conference.

To me it’s tough to criticize the process in Denver, at least until lately. The results have been driven by a lot of bad luck.

Also, not much Jax talk in this thread but if you’re not excited about the possibility of the Knicks hiring Phil Jackson to run basketball operations, you’re nuts.

I mean, the culture is beyond broken, the current administration seems to be stuck in neutral, and the only plausible way Big Chief Triangle comes on board is with full operating power and license to speak freely… so, yeah, we don’t know that he would be the long-term solution in terms of making the club a contender, say, in the back part of this decade, but for fuck’s sake, it’d be a major step in the right direction.

“There are winners and losers in the NBA, and a lot of people are trying to reclaim their position or change their culture or whatever,” Jackson told USA Today.

So hey guys, good news, the Knicks want to change their culture!!

I mean, you can be a stone cold imbecile and still see how rotten this team’s culture has become — lousy me-first players, coaching that fails to adapt to personnel or situations… Anyone with the rein to come in and clean it up — who has the pedigree and respect of a Phil Jackson — I’m all for. Someone pointed out that he’s good at dealing with massive egos… well, hello James Dolan.

I’ve never seen Mirotic play, but Jonathan Givony from Draft Express thinks his most reasonable NBA comp is Ryan Anderson. That doesn’t exactly excite me, even though Anderson is a nice player. On top of that, it’s been widely reported that he will not come for a rookie scale deal, and he’s been off in Europe long enough that he’s no longer bound by the rookie scale – it’ll be more like MLE money at least.

Sure 2 1st round picks would be nice but a team with Melo, Rose, Noah, and Butler coached by Thibs is very unlikely to give us picks higher than the low 20s. So Ryan Anderson, our own top 10 pick from our tankfest and 2 picks (probably 2015 and 2017) in the 20s from Bulls… not exactly exciting to me. Especially since we’ll end up giving Melo’s $20MM slot to Rondo or someone similarly undeserving.

To me it’s tough to criticize the process in Denver, at least until lately. The results have been driven by a lot of bad luck.

I think it’s pretty easy to criticize the process. They have a bunch of guys on $8-10MM deals that no one wants in trade, they let Iguodala leave for nothing, they traded for Javale McGee. They let one of the top 3-4 GMs in the business leave over a couple million bucks. They ran off maybe the best backup PG in the game and let him go for nothing. They traded a recent 1st round pick in Justin Hamilton for Aaron Brooks.

Their bad luck is really Gallo getting hurt. Every other injury has been relatively minor. Their lone saving grace is getting our draft pick this year, which except for a relatively unexpected catastrophe here, was very unlikely to be a lottery pick.

Mirotic has said he isn’t interested in coming for even a full MLE deal.

@DRed

Yes this is news to me as well.

Also I understand people are hesitant that Phil Jackson isn’t the answer if he were to take the offer because he has no experience in the front office, but he would immediately change the culture of this franchise. Bird and Ainge also had no front office experience before they were hired in their respective roles, but they seem to have worked out well. Jackson has always struck me as somebody who’s intelligence stretched beyond the basketball court and I would think he could potentially be a good front office executive. He also has an aura and cache about him that would give the Knicks far more credibility than they currently have.

If Melo takes 18 million per year, that’s fine. I still don’t think it’s particularly great long term though. I don’t expect Melo to be very productive years 3-5.

I also don’t think I really buy the idea that his size will age well. Melo isn’t actually that big. He’s strong and quick in short bursts. But he is actually pretty small for an NBA power forward which shows up on defense and in his rebounding rate, which has quietly cratered.

We’d be super bad next year without him and no one wants that I guess. But realistically if we can get some decent pieces for him we should do it I think….

Frank – They won 57 games last year. They have been better than us since the trade. And they own our pick this year and the right to swap in 2016, which, who knows.

Their recent decisions have been awful, as has their injury luck (I guess you don’t like McGee as much as I do), but their fleecing of us in the Melo trade was a pretty great result given that most people thought they were going to slide into irrelevance as a result of losing a “marquee” stud like Melo.

Also, not much Jax talk in this thread but if you’re not excited about the possibility of the Knicks hiring Phil Jackson to run basketball operations, you’re nuts.

I mean, the culture is beyond broken, the current administration seems to be stuck in neutral, and the only plausible way Big Chief Triangle comes on board is with full operating power and license to speak freely… so, yeah, we don’t know that he would be the long-term solution in terms of making the club a contender, say, in the back part of this decade, but for fuck’s sake, it’d be a major step in the right direction.

This 100%. I’d take Phil Jackson running things under the assumption that he will be given total control over things over James Dolan and Steve Mills any day if for no other reason than it means Dolan taking a back seat…at least for a little while.

I just don’t see a scenario where Anthony takes that little money and stays in NY. If he stays in NY he is going to get paid $129,000,000. It’s what Dolan does. (Anybody remember Allan Houston’s contract negotiation? He gave him the max without anybody bidding against him. It’s Dolan’s greatest fault: he’s nice to the people he likes!). I can see him contemplating a reduced paycheck in order to play for a winning team, but in NY?!

Sure 2 1st round picks would be nice but a team with Melo, Rose, Noah, and Butler coached by Thibs is very unlikely to give us picks higher than the low 20s.

Frank– as discussed yesterday, the “2 1st round picks” JK is referring to are in this year’s draft. (The Bulls currently own the #16 and the #19)

if you’re not excited about the possibility of the Knicks hiring Phil Jackson to run basketball operations, you’re nuts.

All Knicks fans are nuts, tasty!

But seriously, I’ll believe Phil is coming when he comes. Last gig he had partial ownership and was a member of the Buss family.

And his “roster development” has basically been to coach a team with two top-five players in the league in their primes. How he’d plan to do that in NY, I’d like to see.

Mirotic is scoring at an insanely efficient level this year in Euro League– he has been deadly from the perimeter and deadly inside. He’s an ideal NBA stretch 4, is regarded as a high-IQ player and even plays a little bit of defense. His ceiling is WAY above Ryan Anderson level.

Count me as one who is pro this. He def gets the stink off. Also I just read his book and the guy is smart and mindful. He DEFINITELY does not want to sully his rep by failing badly here. Also I think he’s competing directly w Riley to be “best all around basketball guy” of this generation. Funny how their careers mirror each other. No JVG tho. They do not like each other. Guess fences can be mended tho.

Frank– as discussed yesterday, the “2 1st round picks” JK is referring to are in this year’s draft. (The Bulls currently own the #16 and the #19)

Pretty sure a sign and trade can’t happen until after the league year starts (ie after the draft). Doubt Chicago would pick two players the Knicks want before the trade is made official.

Re Phil- I think I’m pro this as well. 1- say what you will about Phil and his ego but at the very least he’s a thinking man’s basketball player and mind. 2- he has proven again and again to be a wizard at getting guys to buy into the team concept. 3- the mere idea that Dolan is thinking about bringing him on makes it clear that this season has taken a toll on him and maybe he’s ready to hand the reins over to someone else.

The other thing I can see is that Phil could convince the Gasol brothers to come over together somehow. Even if pau is old that would be an amazing combo.

No JVG tho. They do not like each other. Guess fences can be mended tho.

Well, at least then we don’t lose my favorite broadcaster.

Did you hear him last night in the Indiana/Houston game? I forgot who was calling the game with him, but the refs called a double tech on Turner and Harden. The “other guy who isn’t JVG and thus not worth remembering” said that the refs “got it right.” JVG, who was arguing that the refs should give the T to the one who instigated it and not punk out with a double tech said “I don’t know who’s a bigger homer with the refs, you or Breen.”

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love the return of JVG, but I’d also be just as happy if he continued his broadcasting career. Ok, maybe not quite as happy…but happy just the same.

If Phil comes, it’d be interesting to see what kind of coach he could attract. I can see most established coaches not wanting to be under Phil’s shadow. But if that leads to a Spoelstra- or Vogel-like hire that would be great.

I would 10000% support hiring Phil Jackson to run this team. Yes, he’s never run a whole franchise, but he’s very smart, he’s had a ton of success as both a player and coach, he’s great at managing egos, he could only help attract future free agents, and most importantly, he would NOT come here to walk around with James Dolan’s hand up his ass. Dolan’s never going to run out of stupid ideas, but Phil Jackson is one of the few people who could tell Dolan where to shove it and still keep his job next time Jimbo cooks up another Andrea Bargnani-esque stroke of genius.

That being said, I won’t believe this is happening no matter what Steven A Smith says until there is dry ink on a contract.

As others have written above, Phil Jackson’s demand for complete autonomy is -for me- the biggest upside. The second biggest is bringing home part of the Holtzman legacy.

Some have argued that there are younger, more innovative GM candidates. Anyone without Jackson’s gravitas could not push Dolan out of the FO. Hell, Donnie Walsh did not have enough heft to keep Dolan out of the kitchen.

I trust Jackson to assemble a front office and coaching staff infinitely more than I trust a Morey/Presti type to keep Dolan from imposing his stupidity.

@44 agree w that sentiment. The best part of it is not Phil himself but the removal of Dolan from basketball decision making. Give them a budget and let them go to work. Most interesting to see who coaches. Have a feeling it won’t be Mike Woodson. Also this makes it more likely that Melo takes the discount to stay. So there are some immediate positive ramifications of this move even if Phil does not have the scouting and cap understanding of a Buford, Presti, Morey. I’d say he has the gravitas to get a guy like that to work for him. Does Warkentein have that kind of mind?

ephus, fixing the Knicks is actually the bigger better job and remember Jim Buss’s only job in life is running the Lakers. Dolan is actually CEO of a multi billion $ corp. He’s got other shit going on. He’s a much bigger deal in the world than Jim Buss.

“I can see him contemplating a reduced paycheck in order to play for a winning team, but in NY?!”

It’s so hard to understand why Melo would come back to New York at a discount.

If we could trade Melo for Boozer, two picks, Mirotic, and whatever other dreck is necessary, that would be amazing in my book….

I really want Melo in his thirties to be someone else’s problem. And I think he has done enough for the Knicks to deserve being surrounded by a bunch of people who really complement him in Taj, Noah, Butler, and Rose….

If Phil Jackson takes a position as President of Basketball Ops I don’t understand how anyone on this blog could not be ecstatic. The realistic alternatives are: continuing as we are now (horrible), or hiring some other front office executive that will NOT have the reputation or “cache,” as others have put it, to keep Dolan from dictating every move the organization makes (also horrible), despite whatever skill they might have as a talent evaluator. As we’ve seen, a GM/President whose skills are constantly undermined by ownership is virtually worthless, in both short-term and long-term scenarios. Not only does Jackson give us a chance for a return to normalcy in the way this basketball organization is run right now, but he also, with some success, gives us a MUCH more important chance at a permanent change in culture in the way the Knicks are to be run under Dolan in the long-term. That is the most significant implication in all this because one thing is for absolute certain; James Dolan, despite the protests, despite the media scrutiny, despite the boycotting, has too much money, too much autonomy and own too lucrative a product to ever be separated from this organization in his lifetime.

If you know the variables, the solution to an equation presents itself that much quicker.

Phil Jackson taking over the reins of basketball operations would be the deus ex machina we have all been praying for. Right now I’m going to file it under “too good to be true,” because Knicks, but if he ends up coming here I will be over the moon. It would be a reason to give a shit about the team again because right now there is absolutely no reason to care.