Spigot and BukkitDev

Because of the recent DMCA on Bukkit, there will probably not be any 1.8 update, official or not. Currently, the only software that supports the 1.8 client is Spigot. However, as mentioned billions of times on this forum, the support of 3rd party software is forbidden. My main concern here is that because of the DMCA takedown, more and more people will migrate to Spigot, as it is the only form of CraftBukkit that supports 1.8, which thus forces developers who work on a lower level than the Bukkit API (NMS and OBC) to compile against Spigot as Spigot brings some new changes to underlying NMS classes. In my case, ImgMap can play videos on Minecraft maps. However, in order to do so (as smoothly as possible; you can still technically do sendMap, but it's extremely inefficient to make rapid calls to sendMap), I need access to the player's Netty Channel along with PacketPlayOutMap. CraftBukkit's PacketPlayOutMap is different in that it does not have the new 1.8 field/construction parameter named "scale"; however, Spigot does; which causes the plugin to fail if on either server if the parameter, for lack of better words, satisfied. I want to make this plugin as universal as possible, so I wrote code to support Spigot and CraftBukkit; but this might constitute as supporting of 3rd party. Is this even allowed since CB is dead currently?

tl;dr Am I allowed to support Spigot in my plugins, while still focusing development on CraftBukkit?

Your plugins can be multi-platform, and how you provide support for that is up to you. On the forums, discussion/support for 3rd party softare is limited since you can find better help where you found the 3rd party software.

Currently there is a temporry rule change regarding 3rd party softare:

9. No advertising.

Advertising is only allowed in the below circumstances.

Your Bukkit powered server in the Show off your Bukkit server forum.

Discussion of Bukkit alternatives and successors.​

In your signature as specified above.

All other forms are completely prohibited, including links to unofficial downloads of Bukkit.

Your plugins can be multi-platform, and how you provide support for that is up to you. On the forums, discussion/support for 3rd party softare is limited since you can find better help where you found the 3rd party software.

Currently there is a temporry rule change regarding 3rd party softare:

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Ah, thank you for clarifying that. I was afraid that if I put "Now we support Spigot 1.8 protocol hacks!", I would be perma'd from DevBukkit

CirnoSponge has recently taken up alot of popularity, and the members/leaders of the project are one of the many few that have worked for bukkit/made plugins for. It almost seems as if this will become the new "Bukkit", but without all the "issues", or this will become another popular server mod just like spigot. Except that this will be different to bukkit (unlike spigot, which took basically the whole bukkit jar and added some things), and it can open up many different (And safer) ways of plugin developing. If they do it right, they can allow us to modify NMS files (or make their own NMS API) without the hazards of servers/clients crashing.

CirnoSponge has recently taken up alot of popularity, and the members/leaders of the project are one of the many few that have worked for bukkit/made plugins for. It almost seems as if this will become the new "Bukkit", but without all the "issues", or this will become another popular server mod just like spigot. Except that this will be different to bukkit (unlike spigot, which took basically the whole bukkit jar and added some things), and it can open up many different (And safer) ways of plugin developing. If they do it right, they can allow us to modify NMS files (or make their own NMS API) without the hazards of servers/clients crashing.

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I was looking at Sponge recently; but I've been torn between Glowstone and Sponge :/
Currently leaning towerds Glowstone since it's a ground-up rewrite rather than based off of NMS.

Cirno With how bare-bone Glowstone is, I found that it can be useful for small servers that are ment to be restarted(ie arenas) while how bug the API is on Sponge, it would work good for bigger servers(ie Survival, factions, ext).

So I've been wondering...
I'm not terribly familiar with the plugin community anymore. It's been a while since I've even been a server dev, much less an owner or co-owner...

But with Spigot supposedly in the clear legally, and updated to 1.8...what's stopping people from using it? As far as I can tell, the compatibility with (at least the majority) of Bukkit plugins is there. I personally can't see Sponge taking off if Forge installation is a requirement (or am I reading that wrong?), with the sheer amount of people that play with normal clients, many of whom would probably get frustrated or skip over a server if a special client is required, even if it is simple.
Is there something keeping Spigot from taking off?

The plan being spoken of is Forge will support un-modded clients for 1.8, iff the mods don't require client-side counterparts. Sponge will not, and nor will it's plugins require mods client-side. However, if you are using other Forge mods as well, they independently might. So the server will need forge and Sponge + plugins and the client may remain vanilla. The big upside is if you do decide to use forge mods & modded clients, which opens up a ton of additional content, you can still keep Sponge plugins.

Spigot is releasing a very, very hacky way to deliver updates, and you MUST already have the base version to apply the patches against. They cannot distribute that base, only the changes. This isn't a long-term solution, and I believe the updates only permit 1.8 clients to connect, it doesn't yet (and may possibly never) support 1.8 servers.

spigot and bukkit are interchangeable, my testing shows spigot seems to support plugins as old as minecraft 1.2 in some rare cases, while bukkit would rarely support plugins older than 2 or 3 minor releases.

That aside, it doesn't change the fact that spigot was a downstream project of bukkit; which in my eyes makes things somewhat ambiguous - it is good they are using a patching system to at least allow the last die hard survivors of the new EULA to limp on while we wait for an untainted server package to move to; myself being one of the die hards; but that worry is still there, and i am boycotting updates anyway, ppfft bunnies... i can wait.

xphoenixxx Erm. No? Bukkit has very good backwards compatibility. Plugins that deliberately tie themselves to a version (by use of NMS/OBC) are an exception to this. Additionally, Spigot is a fork of CraftBukkit, so it's not likely that a plugin will be backwards compatible with Spigot and not CraftBukkit.

the upside to spigot is there are plugins which enable the use and ceation of 1.8 items and features. The downside is you have to pay for those plugins. anywhere from $6-$100 USD

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I'd like to note, that despite what some people may say or think, this is illegal. At no such time should you ever be paying for a modification/plugin for Minecraft as it is against Mojang's EULA. Author's doing such things now may be getting lucky as to not be getting hit with take down notices, but that will probably not be the case once the deal with Microsoft is finalized.

As far as such things as this, any posts created with links to said plugins will be removed from this site once we see them.

I'd like to note, that despite what some people may say or think, this is illegal. At no such time should you ever be paying for a modification/plugin for Minecraft as it is against Mojang's EULA. Author's doing such things now may be getting lucky as to not be getting hit with take down notices, but that will probably not be the case once the deal with Microsoft is finalized.

As far as such things as this, any posts created with links to said plugins will be removed from this site once we see them.

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Even the old staff did not allow us to sell things on the forum.

But, it's not against Minecraft EULA to sell Bukkit Plugins. Even though Mojang "owns" Bukkit, it is still a GPL project and does not contain Minecraft code. Bukkit is just an API and can be implemented by non-minecraft servers.

Selling exceptions means that the copyright holder of the code releases it to the public under a free software license, then lets customers pay for permission to use the same code under different terms, for instance allowing its inclusion in proprietary applications.

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This would all be fun, but the Minecraft EULA says :

Any tools you write for the Game from scratch belong to you. . Modifications to the Game ("Mods") (including pre-run Mods and in-memory Mods) and plugins for the Game also belong to you and you can do whatever you want with them, as long as you don‘t sell them for money / try to make money from them. We have the final say on what constitutes a tool/mod/plugin and what doesn‘t.

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Which just cancels out the selling exceptions, can't make money. Bukkit is GPL and no derivative work would be non-GPL.

But, it's not against Minecraft EULA to sell Bukkit Plugins. Even though Mojang "owns" Bukkit, it is still a GPL project and does not contain Minecraft code. Bukkit is just an API and can be implemented by non-minecraft servers.

Which just cancels out the selling exceptions, can't make money. Bukkit is GPL and no derivative work would be non-GPL.

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Can you read? He was specifically talking about plugins selling 1.8 features, those plugins obviously violate the EULA and should not be sold. He never generalized against all plugins for sale, he only mentioned ones that sell 1.8 features, no don't give me the crap of "but GPL", they have every right to stop plugins from selling their game features. That's like me making a service that sells parts of another game.
When you sell 1.8 features, you are including Minecraft textures/items, so next time consider what you are saying before replying with a generalized response.