I like Blurr and Runamuck in this pack, but I don't need another Prime (even though this one looks pretty good), and I also have no desire to have Longrack and Buzzsaw. They should just sell these guys individually. On the other hand, if the price point is good, it would be worth picking them up.

I like Blurr and Runamuck in this pack, but I don't need another Prime (even though this one looks pretty good), and I also have no desire to have Longrack and Buzzsaw. They should just sell these guys individually. On the other hand, if the price point is good, it would be worth picking them up.

Well, they already DID sell those guys (sans this specific Prime deco) individually.

Well, they already DID sell those guys (sans this specific Prime deco) individually.

Yeah, I know, I just missed out on the Cybertron line. There's always auction sites, but I'd just rather buy them from a store. But then again, it all comes back to how much I could get for Blurr and Runamuck at auction, or how much that pack is.

Ah. Those were my favorite two figures from the Armada remolds. Then Blurr.

It'll probably come down to a judgment call when I see them. Longrack looks OK, but I'm not quite sure about Buzzsaw's color. Also in a Classics sense, both don't really have any relation to G1, which is what I'm after. Unless they're re-names of other TFs from G1.

It'll probably come down to a judgment call when I see them. Longrack looks OK, but I'm not quite sure about Buzzsaw's color. Also in a Classics sense, both don't really have any relation to G1, which is what I'm after. Unless they're re-names of other TFs from G1.

Longrack is "BW Neo" Longrack if he was in the Armada-verse. Buzzsaw's a little weirder because he's "BW" Buzzsaw in the Armada-verse, but BW Buzzsaw was supposed to be.. the original Buzzsaw in a new form. So, it's kinda G1 if you stretch it to fit.

Longrack is "BW Neo" Longrack if he was in the Armada-verse. Buzzsaw's a little weirder because he's "BW" Buzzsaw in the Armada-verse, but BW Buzzsaw was supposed to be.. the original Buzzsaw in a new form. So, it's kinda G1 if you stretch it to fit.

Interesting. Thanks for the info! Well, if I do decide to pick it up, I can always just think that they're G1. I missed all the BW stuff, and when I look back at the photos here and on other sites, I'm not really interested in any BW stuff. But it does sort of fit into the whole continuity.

but BW Buzzsaw was supposed to be.. the original Buzzsaw in a new form.

BM Buzzsaw is arguably the same character as BW Buzz Saw. But I'm aware of absolutely nothing to suggest that Buzz Saw was a reincarnation of the cassette. Aside from a similar name, of course, and nobody claims BW Scorponok to be the same character as the Headmaster.

BM Buzzsaw is arguably the same character as BW Buzz Saw. But I'm aware of absolutely nothing to suggest that Buzz Saw was a reincarnation of the cassette. Aside from a similar name, of course, and nobody claims BW Scorponok to be the same character as the Headmaster.

This was bandied about for a long, long time, and was finally confirmed at BotCon 1997 by... the old guy who designed the toys (I apologize, I've long since forgotten his name). Keep in mind that a LOT of the first couple of waves of Beast Wars toys were supposed to be 'Beast' forms of G1 characters, and sometimes this was retained, though it was largely dropped as the show was produced.

On the other hand, Buzzsaw doesn't actually appear in any fiction for Beast Wars, and the tech spec, though hinting at his origins, don't make it absolutely clear. That's why I said it was stretching it.

This was bandied about for a long, long time, and was finally confirmed at BotCon 1997 by... the old guy who designed the toys (I apologize, I've long since forgotten his name).

Aaaah. Well that explains it. Some bloke you conveniently can't remember the name of said so ten years ago. I believe you now. Funny how that's never come up before, especially on the Wiki that's controlled by people who take great joy in oblique references to decade-old conventions.

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Keep in mind that a LOT of the first couple of waves of Beast Wars toys were supposed to be 'Beast' forms of G1 characters, and sometimes this was retained, though it was largely dropped as the show was produced.

Yes. They may have initially been intended to, but that doesn't mean there's any evidence whatsoever to support your claim that he is. Pseudo-canon only works when you can back it up, and there's nothing to contradict it.

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On the other hand, Buzzsaw doesn't actually appear in any fiction for Beast Wars

Yes he does. He's in The Gathering, he's in The Ascending, he's also in one of those wacky BotCon script reading thingers (where he's apparently Obsidian, just to confuse things further).

Or do you want to sneak in and add a half-hearted "I meant any fiction at the original time of release" qualifier? Go on, I'm feeling benevolant. I'll let you if you want?

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and the tech spec, though hinting at his origins, don't make it absolutely clear.

http://www.tfu.info/1996/Predacon/BuzzSaw/buzzsaw.htm
"Hunts enemy Maximals from altitudes of 20,000 feet. Uses infrared scanning sensors wired within its eyes to detect movement below, then zeros in and launches powerful air-to-ground "sting" missiles to induce temporary paralysis. Buzz Saw can exit Earth's atmosphere at any time, but prefers hunting land-based enemies where it has the advantage of flight. Known to gang up on victims with its evil partner, the wicked Waspinator."

Whereabout does that hint at his origin, then? I'm clearly missing something.

And, just for reference, the tech spec of the original cassette Buzz Saw:http://tfu.info/1984/Decepticon/Buzzsaw/buzzsaw.htm
"Civil and sophisticated yet very cruel and destructive. Approaches his lethal tasks like a fine artist. Each deadly mission is like working on a new masterpiece. Can pinpoint and photograph a thumbtack from 20 miles away. Flies at 250mph. Carries twin mortar cannons. Diamond-hard, micro-serrated beak can carve up almost any opponent. Due to large ego, will often sulk rather than proceed if his plans go astray."

Very little common ground, other than the whole "they're both fliers" motif. I guess that means Shuttler from Car Robots is a reincarnated Buzzsaw too?

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That's why I said it was stretching it.

No, you said that the Sam's Club Buzz Saw being the G1 character was stretching it. As part of your rationale for that, you claimed that "BW Buzzsaw was supposed to be.. the original Buzzsaw in a new form".

When pressed for evidence, you started backpedalling and Making Stuff Up.

And before anybody chimes in, the Botcon Timelines Buzzsaw was indeed a reincarnation of the G1 character, but being an orange Divebomb redeco who was promptly killed, can easily be ruled out as in any way relevant to the Universe homage currently on the table.

Oh, and this is his IDW Sourcebook bio -- courtesy of a deep background source -- just to put all the evidence forward:

"Shrouded in mystery, this Predacon is often spoken of in hushed whispers by friends and foes alike. Few ever see him in the skies, but the value of the intelligence he acquires through his aerial surveillance missions cannot be underestimated. When he attacks from high, few ever see his missiles until it is too late. However, the truth is that Buzz Saw is a complete coward. He stays at high altitudes wholly to avoid direct contact with the enemy. In those rare instances where he appears on the battleground, it is often behind dozens of other Predacon warriors."

I am once again amazed at the fairness and generally adult-manner in which some moderators handle themselves. It's no wonder that TFArchive enjoys the rich and expansive growth that it has.

Aside from that, I only remember that it was the 'guy who made Magnaboss and was sent by Hasbro'. I was extremely busy at that particular convention, and only remember the question because it was something that Ben Yee, Bob Forward, and I discussed at the possibility of G1 characters showing up in Beast Wars season II.

And, no, I didn't considered either the Gathering or Ascending in that statement, since it had no relevance to the original intent of the character. That, and, frankly, both comics sucked anyway.

But, still, by all means, be a complete prat over something this minor. It's really worth the Internet Hatred that Transformers fans are known for.