MIKE McCLAUGHRY: After the raid in '77, I started getting
really physically ill, you know, ending up in hospitals and
stuff, because I was hating what I was doing, and I wanted to
get out of it in the worst way but I didn't know how.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Uh-huh.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You know. Um, in 1979, two years after the
raid happened, they asked me to be the security officer at the
USGO. And I hated L.A., I loved San Francisco, I never wanted
to leave there. They'd always been asking me to go work at USGO
and I always said no because I don't want to live in L.A. Well,
I wanted to get out of doing Black Ops and, uh, breaking the
law, you know, all the time like that, sufficiently bad that I
took the job.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Um-hmm.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You know, because I didn't have to do the
spying, I didn't have to do the Black Ops any more, I didn't
have to break the law any more. All I had to do was work inside
an organization, right? And look for spies. That's all I had to
do. And I said, "Well, this is, you know, this is wonderful!"
(laughs) And I gladly took the job, you know.

CATCHING A SPY

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You should know about this in case anybody,
uh, you know, because I've told some people and in case it ever
comes up in a court case or anything like that, you know, then
you'd have it from me. I'd be really the only one who knows
about this. Um-- well, there's a couple of people, but basically
while I was being security officer at USGO, um, there was a
fellow, uh, who had been sent in by the Air Force. Um, he was a
captain in the Air Force and he was working for, uh-- what's Air
Force Intelligence called? Uh, I forget the initials for it.

He was on-lines at ASHO. Uh, he had made an application for the
Guardian's Office and he was also making an application to, um,
get on-lines at AOLA and do his Clearing Course and Upper
Levels.

I'm being the security officer at USGO. This guy shows up. His
name was Bruce, I don't remember his last name, but he was
captain in the Air Force. Um, he was appli-- he applied to get
in the GO so of course I would be somebody that would have to
look at him. I took a look at him and I went, "Hmm", you know?
(laughter) I didn't know he was captain in the Air Force at the
time; just looking at this guy, I went, you know.

I got a spy in on him. Um, he made friends with this guy named
Bruce. They were pow-wowing around at night together and stuff
like that. My spy was, of course-- his cover was to pretend like
he was somewhat disaffected, you know, and therefore could be
trusted.

Once that was accomplished, then I pretended like I was, um,
the person-- although I wasn't, right? He wanted to get on AOLA
lines. I found out from my spy that this guy was stealing
materials from ASHO at night and mailing them back to an Air
Force base in Georgia.

He wanted to get on AOLA lines. Uh, he was applying to get on
AOLA lines, and therefore I told him-- now, he didn't know who I
was, right? He didn't know where I worked or anything. Um, I
told him that I was the person that worked at AOLA who approved
people to get on AOLA lines. So, uh, he thought I was the guy
that he had to appeal to, to get approval. Um, so I said,
"Well, before we give anybody approval, you know, we ask them
questions on a meter first." And, um, I had a Sec Checker, uh,
who was also a GO person, her name was Connie-- maybe Rhodes or
something like that--

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Rhodes, yeah.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Yeah. Frank and Connie Rhodes?

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Yeah.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Yeah. She-- you know, I liked her.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: She was tough.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Yeah. She was also funny.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Um-hmm.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Um, (laughs) but anyway, she did the meter
stuff, right, on these guys. I would sit in the room beside her
and I could also ask questions if I wanted to. Um, although
this isn't Gang Bang Sec-Check type stuff, you know, I didn't
keep people up past all hours, you know, I didn't beat 'em up
or anything. Uh, basically our technique for catching people
was investigation tech, not the meter. The meter was there to
fool him, not that we were relying on it in any way; we didn't
care what the meter did. Okay? (laughs) It was just the
delusional tactic for him thinking that we-- he believed in the
meter; we did not. Okay? (laughs)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Um-hmm.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: So that's why it was on the meter. Um--

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Hmm.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: So anyway, I would go down and ask him
questions every night for about a week, you know, things that I
wanted to know, you know. Did he work for any government
agency, blah-blah-blah, stuff like this, right? (clears throat)
Uh, we led him to-- he, he lied through his teeth, right, to us
on every question I asked him. Um, we led him to believe that
we believed his answers, right? And, and Connie let him know
that, you know, the meter was agreeing with what he was saying.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Um-hmm.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: So he felt safe every night that he left our
questioning session. And he went back and he'd talk to my spy.
And he would brag on all the lies he told and got away with!
(laughter) "Those dumb son-of-a, you know, you know what I told
'em tonight? That ain't the truth." And that's how I got the
whole story, see. (laughs)

So at the end of the, you know, four or five days of doing
this, we sit down to have a, a, um, a meeting with the guy,
right? We're-- he's not on the meter any more. Uh, we had led
him to believe all the way along that he was passing this
thing. And he came in just happy as a clam, like a celebration,
right? Like we were just gonna write him and say, "You're on
the OT Levels", right? That's what he thought was gonna happen.

He sits down that night and, uh, I say, "Well, Bruce, we got a
problem here." (laughs) And so I start to tell him, uh, what my
spy's been telling me. And he kind of turns white, you know,
and, uh, I said, "Now what about you being in the Air Force?"
So then he starts to, in the hopes of getting us to, um,
approve him, he starts talking to me, right? And he starts
telling me-- and he knows about what's going on at SRI. There's
no way for him to know what's going on at SRI, you know. Um,
unless he was in Intelligence, you know, because nobody in
Scientology told him, that's my point; the government had to
tell him about it. So, uh, he lays it all out, and I say,
"Well, who's your Case Officer and where are they and what is
your mission?" and stuff like that, and, uh, he's over there
sweating, he's trying to get out of this. And, uh, and, you
know, in the course of conversing he tells me, you know, he's
trying to give me presents.

He tells me about the SRI stuff. He goes, "You know, you guys
are considered to be a national security risk because of those
experiments up there at SRI." Uh, you know, "We"-- you know, "We
don't want people running around here who can exteriorize, who
can spy on us", you know. Um, "Also those tests that you did
with magnetic fields, right?" A guy could influence him with
his thought. Uh, he said that we were interested in that
because, um-- actually, you know what happened is I told him I
wasn't gonna let him on when he spilled all these beans, um,
because the jig was up, you know. Um, and he goes, you know,
"What we thought we could do"-- and that's when he told me "We
got a hundred guys back in Georgia waiting to do this stuff as
soon as I send it to 'em.", right, what we thought we could do
is if they fired their missiles at us, right, because the
magnetic field is the guidance system on a missile, if we could
have our own OTs turn 'em around and send 'em back down the
hole they came out of. See? (laughs)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Oh.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: That's what they were looking at. So that's
where that whole story comes from; it's from that guy.