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Now War arose in heaven.

I
am going to tell you straight up that my understanding has changed as
I attempted to write this. Two things stand out in my mind:

I
went to my men's bible study Sunday morning and talked for a short
time about the act of writing. I told the leader that you have to
work at not putting out garbage. And I do not wish to put out
garbage here now.

The
second thing that change my thinking was that I caught Dr. Ed Hinson
on the Calvary Chapel radio station doing an hour-long overview of
Revelation. Statements that he made about these passages must have
been the work of the Holy Spirit.

If I
leave this post almost the same as I started then maybe you can see
my thought process and the point of change in thinking. I have tried
to think this through and figure out how to explain what scripture is
doing to us. All I was doing was to come up with conjecture that gets
you no where and in trouble. Perhaps the best explanation for a
passage is to compare what happens in there to what other prophetic
authors of the old testament said by giving us accounts of the same
things we read in Revelation.

An
example might be:

And
after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall
have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood,
and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. And he
shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of
the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the
wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the
decreed end is poured out on the desolator."(Daniel 9:26-27 ESV)

Many
have toiled over this in an effort to understand future events, and
many have attributed the prince to Antiochus. While he did perform
abominations in the temple, it is also an allusion to the beast of
the near future.

So is
it bogus information? No, it has a reason and purpose, and while it
may be confusing at times, it is comparative and forth telling of
future events.

One of
the things I have said several times over is, nothing is in this book
we call a bible by accident, everything has a purpose and reason. It
is up to us to dig and find it out.

Much
like a nurseryman who takes pride in the growth of his plants he is
selling; we too should take some pride in the growth that we find in
ourselves. Just don't get your head swelled too much because Isaiah 6
is where you find the statement about how your righteousness is as
filthy rags. In other words, even on your best day you should be
undone by the Holiness of God.

God
understands you better than you do and I suspect that he can handle
you. Having a little warm fuzzy over gained understanding only
encourages you to dig more; so keep on digging. It is a pearl of
great price.

Now
war arose in heaven.

Revelation
12:7-9 ESV Now
war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the
dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, (8) but he was
defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. (9)
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is
called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world--he was
thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

What
have the previous verses of Revelation been talking about?

The
dragon, which has various names, one of them being Satan, was
anxiously awaiting the man-child (Jesus Christ) to be born so he
could kill him. Those previous verses speak of the dragon being cast
to earth and dragging the angels that followed down with him.
Revelation 12:4 calls the fallen angels stars. We are not talking
literal stars here. Stars are symbolic.

An
attempt at logic without adequate understanding.

So
what takes place first? - Obviously his being cast to earth. We
first see the serpent in the third chapter of Genesis deceiving Eve.

Genesis
3:1-7 MKJV Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of
the field which Jehovah God had made. And he said to the
woman, Is it so that God has said, You shall not eat of every tree of
the garden? (2) And the woman said to theserpent, We
may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden. (3) But of the fruit
of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, You
shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest you die. (4)
And the serpent said to the woman, You shall not surely die,
(5) for God knows that in the day you eat of it, then your eyes shall
be opened, and you shall be as God, knowing good and evil. (6) And
when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was
pleasing to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make wise, she took
of its fruit, and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he
ate. (7) And the eyes of both of them were opened. And they knew that
they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made girdles
for themselves.

Even
here, in a state of death, God speaks prophetically to the woman
about her offspring.

Genesis
3:15 ERV I will make you and the woman enemies to each other. Your
children and her children will be enemies. You will bite her child's
foot, but he will crush your head."

Jesus,
the one John stated was the creative word that spoke all things into
existence (John 1:1-5), said, I was there, I saw him thrown out of
heaven (Luke 10:18).

Now
war arose in heaven,

Heaven,
in most everybody's mind, is perfect and peaceful, but even those
that reject Jesus Christ would tell you that the perfect place is a
future event. That future can mean something that will happen
immediately after death with no real idea of what happens, or an
eventual home with Jesus and God.

I
suppose I should admit that I built-in some ideas about what heavenly
warfare looks like by reading several of Frank Peretti's books.
Angelic warfare in the heavenly realm, all around us, is a constant
theme in many of his writings.

War
means exactly that, a pitched battle. I do not know how many
angels Michael had fighting on his side but we understand that the
dragon had a third with him. Here in Revelation 12 they are referred
to as stars.

When
you look up the word for heaven it conveys pretty much what you might
think of when someone mentions heaven.

Thayer's definiton: 1)
the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it. 1a) the
universe, the world. 1b) the aerial heavens or sky, the region where
the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning
are produced.

War,
it must have been a frightful sight.

I
used to listen occasionally to the Bible Answer Man radio program.
(I had a job that required a lot of driving.)

The
show had noble beginnings and informed people about how to deal with
the known cults, but it deteriorated into a show that spent most of
its time berating the heresies in every aspect of Christianity that
varied from the hosts. One of his repeated tirades centered on the
idea that Jesus became sin, died, and during the time between his
death and resurrection he went into the heavens and poured out his
blood on the heavenly utensils. Going callers and church leaders with
an angry vigor each day over this. The hosts would say, God would not
bring himself down to that level of degradation.

Why
would Jesus have to pour out his blood on the heavenly altar and
utensils?

Because
there had been an attempted takeover in heaven, and the heavenly
pattern for the temple had been abominated as a result of the
insurrection.

What
had Jesus been describing to John just before this description of
heavenly battle?

The
dragon, on earth, ready to consume the woman's child.

So
what took place first; the battle in heaven, or the dragons
appearance on earth, waiting to consume the man-child?

His
being thrown out of heaven.

Revelation
12:9 describes him as a dragon and several other things, but where
is the first place we see the dragon?

In
the garden deceiving Eve.

Genesis
3:1 CJB Now the serpent was more crafty than any wild animal which
Adonai, God, had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really
say, 'You are not to eat from any tree in the garden'?"

But
now we have a problem.

Revelation
12:8-9 CJB But it was not strong enough to win, so that there was no
longer any place for them in heaven. (9) The great dragon was thrown
out, that ancient serpent, also known as the Devil and Satan [the
Adversary], the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled down to
the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

Were
there two battles or one?

If
God has to battle Satan again, then doesn't that imply that God is
not enough? The idea that God's actions are enough take a huge role
in Christ rising from the dead. His death on the cross and his
resurrection are central to our belief in everything else. An example
would be to look at the hope we have in Christ.

What
are we hoping in?

Salvation,
but from what? The wrath that is to come. That would be the
seven years of wrath to be poured out on the earth. We have Jesus
word on the subject as he referenced Noah and Lot as examples of this
salvation.

So
then what is the passage referring to when it says,

“Then
I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, "Now have come God's
victory, power and kingship, and the authority of his Messiah;
because the Accuser of our brothers, who
accuses them day and night before God, has been thrown out!”
(Revelation 12:10 CJB)

If
God had him thrown out, after an intense battle, then why do we see
Satan interacting with God in the book of Job.
Look at it.

One
day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan
also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you
come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming
throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." Then the LORD
said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no
one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears
God and shuns evil." "Does Job fear God for nothing?"
Satan replied. "Have you not put a hedge around him and his
household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his
hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land.
But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he
will surely curse you to your face." The LORD said to Satan,
"Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the
man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from
the presence of the LORD.(Job 1:6-12 NIV)

We
see Satan in heaven accusing Job once again in chapter 2 of Job.

On
another day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD,
and Satan also came with them to present himself before him. And
the LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan
answered the LORD, "From roaming throughout the earth, going
back and forth on it." Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have
you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he
is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he
still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to
ruin him without any reason." "Skin for skin!" Satan
replied. "A man will give all he has for his own life. But
now stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will
surely curse you to your face." The LORD said to Satan, "Very
well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life."
So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and afflicted Job
with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his
head. (Job 2:1-7 NIV)

There
is no denying that Satan continued to have access to God, even after
an apparent, life altering defeat.

I
believe it was Ed Hinson, on the Calvary Chapel Channel, that said
this verse demonstrates a future event in which Satan finally got
locked out of heaven, and I believe he indicated that the end of
his access occurs at the mid-point of the seven-year period.

Can
we define when this happened or when it will happen.? Yes, but we
have to jump ahead in the chapter to gain more clarity.Following
a chronological approach, we make the assumption that we are at the
end of time, or at least near it. When Christ returns to end the
warfare, we know that Satan gets bound for one thousand years. The
fact that he is bound plays strongly in God's statement, “now is
the accuser of the brethren cast out.” But again, it does not fit
because we make assumptions about what God is saying.Dr.
Ed Hinson, stated that Satan's expulsion happens at the midpoint of
the seven-year tribulation.Pay
attention to the chronology of these passages:

And
when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he
pursued the woman who had given
birth to the male child. But the
woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might
fly from the serpent into the wilderness,
to the place where she is to be nourished for
a time, and times, and half a time.
The
serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman,
to sweep her away with a flood.
(Revelation 12:13-15 ESV)

The
woman is surviving Israel. She escapes into the wilderness for three
and one half years. At some point during this time in hiding the
serpent tries to sweep Israel away with a flood. This may be very
literal, but then I really cannot be sure.

What
is the impact of this timing?
In other words, what is happening at this point. If you are a student
of end times events then you should already have a clue, but I will
recap anyway.

The
beast who made the seven-year treaty with Israel breaks the treaty.

That
ruler will have a firm agreement with many people for seven years,
and when half this time is past, he will put an end to sacrifices
and offerings. The Awful Horror will be placed on the highest point
of the Temple and will remain there until the one who put it there
meets the end which God has prepared for him." (Daniel 9:27
GNB)

The
abomination is set up in the temple.

Those
remaining in Israel need to flee.

When
ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by
Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him
understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the
mountains: (Matthew 24:15-16 KJV)

The
two witnesses will have been taken up into heaven.

The
false prophet comes on the scene. There is a good chance he is
already on the scene but not declared. Islamic prophecies proclaim
that he will be a Jew, a convert to Islam, of the lineage of Aaron
therefore potentially a priest, and this man will be the enforcer of
sharia therefore an escalation in the beheading of saints should
rapidly increase. Doesn't that aspect show that there are still
brethren for Satan to accuse?

(I
have re-thought this since writing it.) When Christ returns to earth
to end the warfare here on earth it seems to be quick and
definitive, but nothing is said of warfare in heaven.

Jumping
ahead to Revelation 12:13, it states, “And when the dragon saw that
he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman who
brought forth the man-child.” This time Satan is not awaiting the
child but going directly after the one that brought man-child into
the world. If you think about it, hasn't attempting to destroy the
lineage of Christ been Satan's theme since Israels inception?

In
summation:

You
have just watched me struggle through the process of understanding.
Yeah I know, some would say you do not understand anything, but what
I do understand that God is passionately in love with people and
desires that all be saved. I happen to be one of them.

I,
like many, have preconceived ideas, ideas that don't hold water when
held up to the truth of God's word. There is only one way to cure
that and that is to dive into God's word for yourself. The Apostle
Paul praised the Bereans because they took it upon themselves to
study and find out if what Paul said was true, and it was.

I
had never even thought about the possibility that Satan had been cast
out of heaven twice, because I have always tended to accept things I
heard as more black and white. In other words I trusted that what I
was being told was correct and therefore required no further thought
from me; wrong! While being able to think of God and his Word as
rigid and unchangeable seems ideal, there are many things in
scripture that are not so clear-cut.

A
few examples:

Our
tendency to read the bible as a chronological time-line, when it is
clearly not. Oh sure, there is a time-line but details are spread
throughout scripture by different authors.

Thinking
that God is merely angry, waiting for the right moment to kill all
who show him disrespect. If that were true he would not have saved
anyone. Now if you have read your bible then perhaps you would know
that it says, “while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
Unlovable, unlikeable, broken, and angry, and yet God sent Jesus,
because he loved us. Why? So he could have a restored relationship
with people that would choose to love him back. Not out of coercion
but intelligent choice.

And
places where scripture says, “all Israel came before ….” The
book of Daniel is one of those places where even though King
Nebuchadnezzar demanded that everyone bow before his statue, Daniel
was not there and therefore did not bow, nor suffered being thrown
into the fire with his companions.

Does
this lack of rigidity diminish God's integrity, or his word at all?

No!,
it merely demonstrates the expressive way humans have conveyed many
of God's dealings with man.

To
tell that Jesus submitted to the cross, died and rose again is not
conjecture; it is verifiable, historic fact. God and his word is
trustworthy. Perhaps things like Satan's being cast out needs to be
clarified so that people can have a confidence and greater
understanding of the depth of God's word.

Jesus
said, “I am the way the truth and the life, and no one comes to the
Father except through me.” It is not a lie nor is it some random
babble. It is the only path to the life promised to those who follow
after him.

Father,
receive me, a sinner covered by the blood of your son Jesus. Jesus
come into my life and be my life. Change me, use me, and have your
way with me. Fill me with your love, the love that I have seen in
your eyes. I believe in the hope of life you have for me and a life
with you in eternity. In Jesus name.

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