I'm having a hard time discerning if you're being sarcastic or genuine in your comment. But really? How is it "gouging" for Apple (or whoever) to charge you for a new version of a product/service? I guess you'll just have to suffice with "last year's product" (shudder) until iWork & iLife 2011 rolls around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2oh1

Who is asking you to "pony up" again? Did your iLife 08 stop working when iLife 09 came out? Mine was fine. If you think the upgrade is worth the price, you buy it. If it isn't, you don't.

Hey, I just bought a new Mac and yeah, I'm now wishing I'd waited a few more days... but if I have to buy iLife 10, I'll choose to do so if the upgrade is worthwhile for me. Otherwise, iLife 09 rocks (well, for me it's all about iPhoto and the FlickrExport add-on)

Do the following thought experiment in an intellectually honest way (if you can): If Microsoft came out with Office '09, and '10, each backwards-incompatible with the previous version, and yet had charged the same for the new versions, you would have complained.

All I am suggesting is, there was a huge shift when Apple moved from 10.5 to 10.6, and I am simply hoping that the same does not happen when Apple moves from 10.6 nontouch to 10.6 touch. You should too.

How anyone can take a word that comes out of that ultra-conservative, far right, pro-religious, homophobic, racist, sack of steaming lies is beyond me. It gives tabloid journalism a bad name.

So yes, Fox News source = lie.

Apparently you never followed that BBC News personality regarding knowledge and truthfulness on the subject matter she talks about... the highly educated, progressive intellectual, Katty Kay! You can find her touting her analysis on NBC / MSNBC, CNN, PBS, the usual bastions of journalistic integrity and objectivity, that definitely gives street cred to tabloid journalism!

I wonder where Katty Kay stands on Obama's skin color? Is he too light skin or not dark enough? Yeah, I see you have the usual diatribe of descriptive terms the left loves to bloviate, but comparing Fox News and racist only shows who among us lacks the brain!

I selected this link from that rag the New York TImes so you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss with all your so called superior intelectual and analytical intelligence! I loved your brilliant "Fox News source = lie" analysis... absolutely pure genius! Keep up the great observations!

Has this ever happened before: That somebody leaked exactly which announcements will be made?

Yep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daggermann

I don't believe it. Because the source is bad and because this has never happened before.

Re-think that position. The morning Jobs was to reveal the new iMac (I forget which one--maybe the half-volleyball-base model?) either Newsweek or Time scooped him and had it on the cover!

I bought a copy at the San Francisco Marriott newsstand and took it with me to stand in the long line that formed hours ahead of time, waiting to get into the keynote. A few others in line had the same magazine. It attracted a great deal of attention, because it revealed what we were all waiting and wondering about.

Isn't it funny how they can't help but inject their ideology into every aspect of everything they do/see/read/hear? I am amazed that the mere mention of Fox causes so many of them to begin blurting noises and puffing about like a bunch of territorially-challenged chimpanzees.

;-) You don't have to be a left winger to criticise Fox. If you are a left winger it is too easy a target. Fox is so far right that being a centrist, or even centrist conservative you can have fun with Fox.

Do the following thought experiment in an intellectually honest way (if you can): If Microsoft came out with Office '09, and '10, each backwards-incompatible with the previous version, and yet had charged the same for the new versions, you would have complained.

All I am suggesting is, there was a huge shift when Apple moved from 10.5 to 10.6, and I am simply hoping that the same does not happen when Apple moves from 10.6 nontouch to 10.6 touch. You should too.

You mean like their new .docx format, not available in previous versions of Office? Like that? Like when the made it the default format for their Windows version of Office and then didn't even have a translator for Mac? Like that? Uh, people did complain. Maybe you just weren't paying attention. But Office made it possible to store in an alternate format, and so global meltdown was averted. Whew.

Microsoft has a long history of going out of its way to be incompatible with Office formats, and they've changed enough times to legitimately wonder if 'incompatibility' isn't the primary reason. They did .rtf, and when people figured out .rtf, they moved to .doc, and now that everyone has pretty much figured out .doc, they give us .docx.

Since you want to talk about intellectual honesty, try and understand what happened that forced the change from Pages 08 to Pages 09 (if you can). The Pages 08 format was a package. That's a nifty design but it has problems. You might put it in a .zip to email it, then unzip it, and viola! it's a folder with stuff in it. The Pages engineers realized they had a broken (or anyway suboptimal) file format and they changed the format to a flat file. It wasn't ill will, or pique, or a desire to force migration (though they're happy enough to prod you in that direction, no doubt). If you have Pages 08, no, it won't open that 09 file. But you could have saved it in a .doc format or a .rtf format.

You're lecturing about this like you think you're parting the clouds. But everybody you're lecturing probably knows all this. I sure do. It's not like Pages has become the de facto file-exchange standard, anyhow, and they nearly brought industry to its knees with a thoughtless format change. How many Pages files that you open were created by someone outside your immediate circle? running version 2+ levels different from your own? whom you couldn't call and say, 'Hey dude, save that file in .rtf for me, willya."?

Complaining about the near certainty of a 2010 version of iWork is like me bitching that the sun shouldn't rise today just because I had a bad weekend. If it's inconvenient to me that the inevitable happen, I need to deal with it. Likewise, if it's inconvenient to you that iWork 2010 might come, well then, it's up to you to deal with that. But of all the things in the world, an inconvenient but optional software update is about the most trivial thing in the world to lose your water about.

Those who are doubting this report are showing extreme ignorance. "OMG Fox Nooz iz teh SUXXORZ!!!" The author is Clayton Morris, a very reputable journalist well regarded by everyone from Leo Laporte to Tom Merritt to Veronica Belmont to Partick Norton.

Obviously, this is a controlled leak by Apple to make sure journalist butts are in seats next Wednesday.

So who cares who Clayton works for? YOUR boss is probably McDonalds, so STFU and get back to work.

A tablet and iPhone OS 4.0 have been rumored for ages, the only new "information" is iLife. Additionally the term focus isn't all inclusive, this doesn't exclude the possibility of new MBP's being quickly introduced, or anything else for that matter and more specifically it doesn't give any information about what the tablet would do, which is what they will spend the most time talking about. We've seen many rumored lineups before, iPods come to mind.

Saying again, we've obviously heard plenty of rumors, but I don't recall ever seeing one, for any Apple product, sourced as coming directly from Apple. That's the difference between this rumor and all the others, and that one single fact about it pins my implausibility meter.

Isn't it funny how they can't help but inject their ideology into every aspect of everything they do/see/read/hear? I am amazed that the mere mention of Fox causes so many of them to begin blurting noises and puffing about like a bunch of territorially-challenged chimpanzees.

You mean like their new .docx format, not available in previous versions of Office? Like that? Like when the made it the default format for their Windows version of Office and then didn't even have a translator for Mac? Like that? Uh, people did complain. Maybe you just weren't paying attention. But Office made it possible to store in an alternate format, and so global meltdown was averted. Whew.

Microsoft has a long history of going out of its way to be incompatible with Office formats, and they've changed enough times to legitimately wonder if 'incompatibility' isn't the primary reason. They did .rtf, and when people figured out .rtf, they moved to .doc, and now that everyone has pretty much figured out .doc, they give us .docx.

Since you want to talk about intellectual honesty, try and understand what happened that forced the change from Pages 08 to Pages 09 (if you can). The Pages 08 format was a package. That's a nifty design but it has problems. You might put it in a .zip to email it, then unzip it, and viola! it's a folder with stuff in it. The Pages engineers realized they had a broken (or anyway suboptimal) file format and they changed the format to a flat file. It wasn't ill will, or pique, or a desire to force migration (though they're happy enough to prod you in that direction, no doubt). If you have Pages 08, no, it won't open that 09 file. But you could have saved it in a .doc format or a .rtf format.

You're lecturing about this like you think you're parting the clouds. But everybody you're lecturing probably knows all this. I sure do. It's not like Pages has become the de facto file-exchange standard, anyhow, and they nearly brought industry to its knees with a thoughtless format change. How many Pages files that you open were created by someone outside your immediate circle? running version 2+ levels different from your own? whom you couldn't call and say, 'Hey dude, save that file in .rtf for me, willya."?

Complaining about the near certainty of a 2010 version of iWork is like me bitching that the sun shouldn't rise today just because I had a bad weekend. If it's inconvenient to me that the inevitable happen, I need to deal with it. Likewise, if it's inconvenient to you that iWork 2010 might come, well then, it's up to you to deal with that. But of all the things in the world, an inconvenient but optional software update is about the most trivial thing in the world to lose your water about.

Oh, sounds like I hit a nerve. Perhaps you should be less condescending the next time.

1) '.doc' worked for over a decade. iWork hasn't been (seriously) around for half as long. Give Microsoft some credit. Even if they deserve none, that is a pretty pathetic bar to set.

2) Please speak in English, instead of sounding like a tech nerd, so that I can decide whether I am being intellectually honest or not. "The Pages 08 format was a package. That's a nifty design ..." (In what way is a 'package' nifty?). "...put it in a .zip to email it, then unzip it, and viola! it's a folder with stuff in it." (So?) "The Pages engineers realized they had a broken (or anyway suboptimal) file format and they changed the format to a flat file." (Suboptimal to flat? Yeah, that's totally clear). "It wasn't ill will, or pique, or a desire to force migration ....but you could have saved it in a .doc format or a .rtf format" (And lose the purpose for which I bought iWork? No thanks. Btw, you're obviously not a Keynote user. Try going back and forth between that and PPT).

3) Your arrogance is amply evident when you make a statement such as "...everybody you're lecturing probably knows all this." If/when you took a poll and had some results to share, let me know.

4) I wasn't complaining about the 'certainty' of anything. This is a rumor forum where one can express an opinion, in case you haven't noticed.

why are there so many hippies on this site? I know you like to spew hatred (hypocrytically) at fox news for being conservative, but easily over 90% of the people in news are leftists. grow up. but I'm sure I'm wasting my time as most of you complaining have your egos firmly implanted in leftist ideology (ie not reality).

anyway, anybody have any comments about my theory of an integrated social suite that includes apple maps and will be present in the tablet, iPhone, and iLife?

why are there so many hippies on this site? I know you like to spew hatred (hypocrytically) at fox news for being conservative, but easily over 90% of the people in news are leftists. grow up. but I'm sure I'm wasting my time as most of you complaining have your egos firmly implanted in leftist ideology (ie not reality).

I think we're going to see the introduction of a painting program for iLife.

They should introduce a "Read to you (grand)children" app for audiobook content.

Buy a book, and be able to dub over it in YOUR voice. (small books like for kids) and then you can give it to your children/grandchildren. It will display the pages/text, and like a LeapFrog or something, it will also have the ability to have your voice dubbed in. Add a built-in camera and slit-screen with a recording of "Grandpa" or "Great Great Great Grandpa" reading me the story.

why are there so many hippies on this site? I know you like to spew hatred (hypocrytically) at fox news for being conservative, but easily over 90% of the people in news are leftists. grow up. but I'm sure I'm wasting my time as most of you complaining have your egos firmly implanted in leftist ideology (ie not reality). ...

Wow. Do you actually believe this? This is absolute crazy talk.

You're categorising anyone who doesn't like Faux news as a "hippy"??? What are you twelve? Do you even know what a "hippie" is/was? 90% of the people in the news are "leftists"???

You sound like Archie Bunker.

Also, don't use a word like "ego" unless you can use it correctly. You just sound even stupider. An ego can't be "implanted" (or planted even!), in anything.

Also, to be really picky, "hypocrytically" is spelled "hypocritically" and "ie" is an abbreviation, and should be spelled "i.e."

Isn't it funny how they can't help but inject their ideology into every aspect of everything they do/see/read/hear? I am amazed that the mere mention of Fox causes so many of them to begin blurting noises and puffing about like a bunch of territorially-challenged chimpanzees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmf2

Why would they announce a new iLife for macs at a tablet announcement? I would guess that there may be some new features shared between the tablet and iLife; either in the form of new programs (paint being a possibility), more syncing options (could apply to iWork too), or the tablet may have the ability to interact directly with iLife programs on a mac as a secondary input device/secondary monitor.

Oh well the 27th isn't too far away, we will know soon enough.

I'm betting they take iWork even higher into the clouds this year (pun intended) and allow table users the ability to view an edit iWork documents. I'm hoping new versions of iLife and iWork are introduced since I'm a little behind the times and still running '08 versions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kotatsu

How anyone can take a word that comes out of that ultra-liberal, far left, anti-religious, greenie-weenie, racist, sack of steaming lies is beyond me. It gives tabloid journalism a bad name.

So yes, MSNBC News = lie.

Wow, you liberals are right... Just a few words can make all a difference! I'm ready to watch some neutral Olbmerman now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee

Absolutely.

I think I could be wrong too, but I don't understand why me saying this has got so much blow-back. Traditionally, the drawing/paint application is *always* included in an Office type suite.

Apple's longest lasting offering of that type is Appleworks (now defunct and officially replaced by iWork), and the only thing "missing" in the new incarnation is the old Appleworks drawing program. I didn't think it was controversial at all to suggest that iWork would be the place to put the drawing/paint program. Productivity apps just make more sense for a tablet IMO than "lifestyle" apps.

I could be totally wrong of course, but I was just going with what seemed the most likely given past history.

I agree with you on several points.

Just say no to MacMall. They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries. There are better retailers out there.

Isn't it funny how they can't help but inject their ideology into every aspect of everything they do/see/read/hear? I am amazed that the mere mention of Fox causes so many of them to begin blurting noises and puffing about like a bunch of territorially-challenged chimpanzees.

Kind of like when right-wingers can't help whining about the superiority of their own ideology as they revel more in upsetting left-wingers than actually saying anything cogent themselves ...

FOX News, not FOX, has decided upon an ideological approach to news editing and promotion. Newspapers in a century ago did the same thing, so they have plenty of precedent from which to draw. Unfortunately studies have shown those who use FOX News as their primary news source consistently rate lower on tests of current events than any other news agency. Just the facts, echochamber ... I mean echosonic.

FOX News does GREAT reporting on NASA and tech things however so I don't judge them on this story particularly harshly .... and I am glad they are out on the right flank, keeping liberals more honest. It is just good to remain skeptical with a company that relies way so much on analysts from only one side of the political divided. Gotta love a broadcasts who keeps hiring folks like Oliver North, Rove and others who are either or have been under indictment.

Anyone else here not really care about a painting program for the tablet!? The market now if for readers of print media and a more enjoyable multimedia experience connected to a fast internet. I prefer the 7" format or a Courier-like (read as mythical) functionality. If I'm carrying 10+ inches I might as well have a laptop.

The Mother of all flip-flops!!Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...

So what is the link between the new device, iLife and iPhone OS 4? Would Apple do a special event like this to launch three disparate products? Doesn't seem very elegant to me. They should probably all tie together somehow.

My bet is that both the next-gen iPhone AND the tablet will run the same operating system, OS 4.0. Perhaps they will be slightly different (e.g. different resolutions), but more or less the same. iLife 2010 will run on both Mac OS X and the Tablet.

Traditionally, the drawing/paint application is *always* included in an Office type suite.... Apple's longest lasting offering of that type is Appleworks

Yeah AppleWorks and MS Works (iirc) included drawing programs.
But MS Works was kind of targeted at your average home user (or student) needing lighter programs. As was AppleWorks. And as such paint/draw also fit as a nice add on (but never the primary app). [edit: Who is iWork targeted at?]

Also, at that time, there really wasn't anything to compare with an iLife style suite.

As I said though - in support of including "iPaint" with iWork, I think the old OpenDoc idea has merit.
I mean - you open a "page" and write on it, draw on it, put a spreadsheet on it, paint on it... whatever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee

I don't personally see how iLife would be very useful on a tablet

When using any of the iLife applications, a keyboard is rarely required. I think that's a nice way of looking at which apps MIGHT actually run better on a touch system. Most mouse usage translates across quite well (just needs bigger selection points sometimes), the main challenge is menus (either at the top or pop-up menus).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee

I'm looking forward to the clarity that will come just *after* the announcement.

- Some significant integration with the iPhone/touch platforms, as well as an iSlate.
That means Apple stays ahead of developer on their own products.

A "dual pack" iLife/iWork (+ family pack) would be interesting to a lot of people. I do anticipate a slate version of these - the interface MUST be made specifically for touch, but there's no reason that they couldn't have a release for both platforms, slightly different versions with the same core.

A "dual pack" iLife/iWork (+ family pack) would be interesting to a lot of people. I do anticipate a slate version of these - the interface MUST be made specifically for touch, but there's no reason that they couldn't have a release for both platforms, slightly different versions with the same core.

It needs to have a very good sync system.

You think theyll focus on Mac software release with this event? I dont think so. I think the rewrite of the Mac version of iLife X to Cocoa and 64-bit may still take some time. I dont think well get the Cocoa version of iTunes X will come next September with the next iPod/iTunes Special Event.

I think the Tablet OS will have iLife and iWork capabilities but it will have been written specifically for the device and will be very different from the Mac equivalents, despite some obvious similarities.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Apple's longest lasting offering of that type is Appleworks (now defunct and officially replaced by iWork), and the only thing "missing" in the new incarnation is the old Appleworks drawing program. I didn't think it was controversial at all to suggest that iWork would be the place to put the drawing/paint program. Productivity apps just make more sense for a tablet IMO than "lifestyle" apps.

Actually, Appleworks also had a data base component which was fully integrated with, word processing, spreadsheet, drawing & painting apps and a presentation app. 6 apps, all in the same suite .... in some ways still better than iWork, even 'tho iWork is an amazing program. I still use Appleworks although it's being used less and less every day.

Apple, bigger than Google, √ ..... bigger than Microsoft, √ The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.

I did not save iWork '08 so I cannot check my facts but as I recall there are two points I will make:

One, when I save a document that was created with a previous version I am given an opportunity to save it in a fashion to make it compatible with both versions, I believe.

I think the main reason there is no backward compatibility in '09 is because that is when drop shadow and transparency was introduced, was it not? Both of these would cause issues when opening in '08, no?

Apple, bigger than Google, √ ..... bigger than Microsoft, √ The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.

You're categorising anyone who doesn't like Faux news as a "hippy"??? What are you twelve? Do you even know what a "hippie" is/was? 90% of the people in the news are "leftists"???

You sound like Archie Bunker.

Also, don't use a word like "ego" unless you can use it correctly. You just sound even stupider. An ego can't be "implanted" (or planted even!), in anything.

Also, to be really picky, "hypocrytically" is spelled "hypocritically" and "ie" is an abbreviation, and should be spelled "i.e."

im sad to hear you say this, youve been my favorite commenter on this site, i had you pegged for more of a thinking person. thank you for the spelling and grammar lesson though, and for informing me that ego's can not be implanted. also, the intellectualization which you just exhibited as an ego defense mechanism to counter my statements (without actually countering my statements) just reinforces my point. so thank you for that as well. to answer your questions: no, i do not believe the complainers are wearing tie dye shirts and are high on lsd; yes, 90% of the people in news are leftist; and no, im not twelve.

Right? The idea that there will be no UI designed for a 10 touch device, but instead of an upscaling of a 3.5 display onto a display about 8x the screen area and the downsizing of a UI that is for 13 to 30+ monitors that has no touch elements built in makes no sense. Even using a 10 netbook with Mac OS X can be rough simply because some elements are so small despite the use of a keyboard and mouse pointer.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

I have to say that an update to iLife is not really news, it's a forgone conclusion. There's been a new version of iLife pretty much every year so it's no real stretch of the imagination that Apple is going to release a new version.

As to iWork it will also get updated but I'm still holding out for a mobile version of it as well as a mobile version of iWeb.

Oh, sounds like I hit a nerve. Perhaps you should be less condescending the next time.

1) '.doc' worked for over a decade. iWork hasn't been (seriously) around for half as long. Give Microsoft some credit. Even if they deserve none, that is a pretty pathetic bar to set.

2) Please speak in English, instead of sounding like a tech nerd, so that I can decide whether I am being intellectually honest or not. "The Pages 08 format was a package. That's a nifty design ..." (In what way is a 'package' nifty?). "...put it in a .zip to email it, then unzip it, and viola! it's a folder with stuff in it." (So?) "The Pages engineers realized they had a broken (or anyway suboptimal) file format and they changed the format to a flat file." (Suboptimal to flat? Yeah, that's totally clear). "It wasn't ill will, or pique, or a desire to force migration ....but you could have saved it in a .doc format or a .rtf format" (And lose the purpose for which I bought iWork? No thanks. Btw, you're obviously not a Keynote user. Try going back and forth between that and PPT).

3) Your arrogance is amply evident when you make a statement such as "...everybody you're lecturing probably knows all this." If/when you took a poll and had some results to share, let me know.

4) I wasn't complaining about the 'certainty' of anything. This is a rumor forum where one can express an opinion, in case you haven't noticed.

Sorry but I'm with Ronbo on this one.

.Doc might have worked but .Doc is only one aspect of the Office package. People DO complain about Office changing the file format because with EVERY release of Access (the database in Office) the previous file cannot be opened or loses some aspect of it meaning you can't upgrade your databases easily. I know of one company that has tonnes of Access databases and with their last upgraded spent huge amounts of money in order to move away from Access because their business was being impacted by Microsoft not remaining backwards compatible.

.Docx is not compatible in previous versions of Office unless you have the convertor software installed in the previous versions. People DID complain about this but quickly got over it because it is actually a more stable version of the file format.

What Rondo was saying with the package verses flat file was that '08 used a system similar to an app whereby instead of a single file it is actually a folder with the contents of the document in it. This is bad because the only way to distribute that file is to zip it up and then send the zip file, you can't send the document directly because no e-mail system can handle that. Essentially it adds a level of complexity to a situation that shouldn't be that complex.

The flat file means that it is a single file just the same as a text document, Word document, Excel document, Access database, or RTF document making it trivial to email a document therefore making it easier for the user. However, in creating this document format it is 100% impossible to open in '08 without first converting it to '08. However, now that Apple has this far superior document it seems completely plausible that '09 can open '10 files with minimal fuss.