Are "religious" people BAD people? - Think Atheist2016-12-10T03:27:49Zhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/are-religious-people-bad-people?commentId=1982180%3AComment%3A1326078&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=no@Belle - "... the ability to…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-06-12:1982180:Comment:13260782013-06-12T09:42:06.283ZSimon Payntonhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/SimonPaynton
<p>@Belle - <br/><br/>"<em>... the ability to identify with religions to the extent that you could refute their claims based on their own language?</em>" <br/><br/>I don't see any need to refute their claims. There's nothing inherently wrong with believing in God - or even inaccurate. I see a need for religious people sometimes to become less confused about what's important. </p>
<p>@Belle - <br/><br/>"<em>... the ability to identify with religions to the extent that you could refute their claims based on their own language?</em>" <br/><br/>I don't see any need to refute their claims. There's nothing inherently wrong with believing in God - or even inaccurate. I see a need for religious people sometimes to become less confused about what's important. </p> "That is why most atheists tr…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-06-05:1982180:Comment:13228742013-06-05T05:48:16.819ZSimon Payntonhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/SimonPaynton
<p>"<em>That is why most atheists treat theists with ridicule and contempt, Belle. Because they treat us with worse.</em>"</p>
<p>But Milos, these are the morals of the playground. Would it not be nice for atheism to move forward - past the age of 8? </p>
<p>"<em>What if being a free thinker involved the ability to identify with religions to the extent that you could refute their claims based on their own language? It would require some humbling and empathy. But it would go a longer way in…</em></p>
<p>"<em>That is why most atheists treat theists with ridicule and contempt, Belle. Because they treat us with worse.</em>"</p>
<p>But Milos, these are the morals of the playground. Would it not be nice for atheism to move forward - past the age of 8? </p>
<p>"<em>What if being a free thinker involved the ability to identify with religions to the extent that you could refute their claims based on their own language? It would require some humbling and empathy. But it would go a longer way in allowing atheists to be heard for what atheism really is as opposed to turning people off with contempt and ridicule.</em>" </p>
<p>With the emphasis on the <em>free</em> and <em>thinker</em>. </p> Milos: Because they treat us…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-06-05:1982180:Comment:13229232013-06-05T04:14:37.408ZTom Sarbeckhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/TomSarbeck
<p>Milos: <em>Because they treat us with worse.</em></p>
<p>Some of them, most of them, or all of them?</p>
<p>Does it matter to you?</p>
<p>Milos: <em>Because they treat us with worse.</em></p>
<p>Some of them, most of them, or all of them?</p>
<p>Does it matter to you?</p> How many atheists I wonder co…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-06-04:1982180:Comment:13225522013-06-04T12:37:46.014ZEmperor Miloshttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/MilosCakovan
<blockquote><p>How many atheists I wonder could say the same thing about a theist.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Richard Dawkins would be one of them. He and the ex Archbishop of Canterbury were quite friendly and he respects him a great deal.</p>
<blockquote><p>What if being a free thinker involved the ability to identify with religions to the extent that you could refute their claims based on their own language?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>How can you refute fantasy with fantasy, Belle? How can someone…</p>
<blockquote><p>How many atheists I wonder could say the same thing about a theist.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Richard Dawkins would be one of them. He and the ex Archbishop of Canterbury were quite friendly and he respects him a great deal.</p>
<blockquote><p>What if being a free thinker involved the ability to identify with religions to the extent that you could refute their claims based on their own language?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>How can you refute fantasy with fantasy, Belle? How can someone refute claims that present no evidence, based on other claims that present no evidence?</p>
<blockquote><p>It would require some humbling and empathy.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It would require circular logic, fallacies and using "feeling" as proof. None of which is humbling. It is embarrassing and detrimental to any debate or meaningful discussion.</p>
<blockquote><p>But it would go a longer way in allowing atheists to be heard for what atheism really is as opposed to turning people off with contempt and ridicule.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Daniel Dennett for one, is very mild and polite in his interaction with theists and he is one of the "four horsemen". Hemant Mehta is the "Friendly Atheist" yet his voice tends to be cast down with the "hateful" atheists. Seth Andrews (The Thinking Atheists) often has theists as guests on his show, and often is a guest on theist shows, and is very kind and respectful, yet Seth gets countless hate messages and posts on his facebook page, in his email and so on.</p>
<p>How many atheists send death threats to theists, Belle? What if being a theist involved the ability to identify with non believers to the extent that you could speak to them without labeling them as baby eating monsters or feeling the need to "save them"?</p>
<p>That is why most atheists treat theists with ridicule and contempt, Belle. Because they treat us with worse.</p> People are born neutral and i…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-06-04:1982180:Comment:13225452013-06-04T11:52:51.233ZBrendanhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Brendan109
<p>People are born neutral and it comes down to how they are raised to how they view the world. It is more than black and white but religious or not is not the defining factor in what makes someone good or bad. The definition of what is bad is an individual one for the most part but also to an extent is the concept of good. A person may do something good with the belief that it will benefit them in some way, but is the good they have done undone by this belief? No the good was still done and…</p>
<p>People are born neutral and it comes down to how they are raised to how they view the world. It is more than black and white but religious or not is not the defining factor in what makes someone good or bad. The definition of what is bad is an individual one for the most part but also to an extent is the concept of good. A person may do something good with the belief that it will benefit them in some way, but is the good they have done undone by this belief? No the good was still done and visa-versa with bad . There is an old saying some of the worst decisions where made with the best intentions in mind.<br/>Peace be the Journey</p> You don't like theists.
I lik…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-06-04:1982180:Comment:13224862013-06-04T11:04:10.208ZTom Sarbeckhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/TomSarbeck
<p>You don't like theists.</p>
<p>I like those who lead theists less; they are con artists, swindlers.</p>
<p>You don't like theists.</p>
<p>I like those who lead theists less; they are con artists, swindlers.</p> Belle, your 11 questions puzz…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-06-04:1982180:Comment:13224832013-06-04T07:31:03.785ZTom Sarbeckhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/TomSarbeck
<p>Belle, your 11 questions puzzled me. They looked like a left brain product. Many guys use the left brain to keep things at a safe distance.</p>
<p>Name calling as a way to close discussion was in a book I read a few weeks ago. Your discussion here let me take it from my head and put it where I can see it.</p>
<p>Some of what people write here is stuff they dump. Your discussion stirred some thinking.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Belle, your 11 questions puzzled me. They looked like a left brain product. Many guys use the left brain to keep things at a safe distance.</p>
<p>Name calling as a way to close discussion was in a book I read a few weeks ago. Your discussion here let me take it from my head and put it where I can see it.</p>
<p>Some of what people write here is stuff they dump. Your discussion stirred some thinking.</p>
<p></p> Tom - I agree. On a related…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-06-04:1982180:Comment:13227192013-06-04T07:27:08.352ZSimon Payntonhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/SimonPaynton
<p>Tom - I agree. On a related note, from the Buddhist psychotherapist, John Welwood: <br></br><br></br>"The word compassion literally means “feeling with.” You can’t have compassion unless you’re first willing to feel what you feel. Opening to what you feel reveals a certain rawness and tenderness—what Trungpa Rinpoche spoke of as the “soft spot,” which is the seed of bodhicitta [kindheartedness]." <br></br><br></br>People who really know themselves can understand others better. People who can admit…</p>
<p>Tom - I agree. On a related note, from the Buddhist psychotherapist, John Welwood: <br/><br/>"The word compassion literally means “feeling with.” You can’t have compassion unless you’re first willing to feel what you feel. Opening to what you feel reveals a certain rawness and tenderness—what Trungpa Rinpoche spoke of as the “soft spot,” which is the seed of bodhicitta [kindheartedness]." <br/><br/>People who really know themselves can understand others better. People who can admit their badness can understand it in others. </p> "Everyone has a little of bot…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-06-04:1982180:Comment:13227182013-06-04T07:07:21.991ZTom Sarbeckhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/TomSarbeck
<p>"Everyone has a little of both in them...."</p>
<p>An American theologian / political activist, Reinhold Niehbuhr (1892-1971), put it this way (approx):</p>
<p>There is enough good in the worst of us, and enough bad in the best of us, that it behooves none of us to talk about the rest of us.</p>
<p></p>
<p>"Everyone has a little of both in them...."</p>
<p>An American theologian / political activist, Reinhold Niehbuhr (1892-1971), put it this way (approx):</p>
<p>There is enough good in the worst of us, and enough bad in the best of us, that it behooves none of us to talk about the rest of us.</p>
<p></p> Richard Dawkins doesn't know…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-06-04:1982180:Comment:13224822013-06-04T06:52:19.949ZSimon Payntonhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/SimonPaynton
<p>Richard Dawkins doesn't know when to shut up. In my opinion, in his position, he should be more responsible and just use his brain more. If I've come up with an alternative - he should have done the same, it wasn't difficult, and he's much more brainy than me. </p>
<p>Belle, I think it's up to you to present some kind of alternative position which other people can learn from and follow. If you've got the ideas - you put them together, since no-one else is going to. That's all that RD…</p>
<p>Richard Dawkins doesn't know when to shut up. In my opinion, in his position, he should be more responsible and just use his brain more. If I've come up with an alternative - he should have done the same, it wasn't difficult, and he's much more brainy than me. </p>
<p>Belle, I think it's up to you to present some kind of alternative position which other people can learn from and follow. If you've got the ideas - you put them together, since no-one else is going to. That's all that RD does. His ideas aren't even particularly good. He just has a big mouth and lots of money. He's in a position of authority since he went to Cambridge and is a famous scientist, and is very brainy. Well, we all have a brain and a computer. It's all about the D.I.Y. action. </p>