If you think that those years were they went to the elite 8 with the talent they had on those teams was looked at as successful, then I don't know what to tell you man.

The team he had this year reaching the sweet 16 and bowing out to Michigan was a success. Winner.

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You're crazy. The team Self took to the national championship in 2012 was pretty low on the talent scale (as far as elite programs go), and this 2012-13 team was arguably lower. And he had them in position to most likely go to another national championship when they were up on a much more talented Michigan team before Trey Burke blew up.

And, yeah, Kansas fans expect Final Fours. Nothing wrong with that even if it is obnoxious. Just like anything less than a Super Bowl is disappointing to Patriots fans and anything less than a World Series will always be failure for Yankees fans.

Fan expectations don't pertain to coach performance. And Bill Self has been one of the 2-3 best, possibly the best in the recent past.

You just blamed Bill Self for Kansas losing to Michigan when Elijah Johnson couldn't hit free throws. You can't have it both ways.

Whoa whoa whoa. WHOA. Yes he missed ONE FT. Memphis didn't have a 11pt lead with less than 4 minutes to go like Kansas did vs Michigan and completely went out of their offense and chucking up 3's while Self just watched it happen.

Memphis missed 4 of 5 FT's with less than 45 seconds.

Slightly different.

I'm not a Kansas fan, but their program is amazing. I just don't think Bill Self is an elite coach at all. It's not like he came to a small program and built them up, he took over for Roy and continued the recruiting but has still failed when he shouldn't have many times.

__________________Sig by the King BK

Fear the Spear - Winston Era has begun....

Quote:

"I wasn't going to lose to Miami, no matter what," Freeman said. "It means a lot to go out there and beat them. Every time I get a chance, I want to destroy them."

Whoa whoa whoa. WHOA. Yes he missed ONE FT. Memphis didn't have a 11pt lead with less than 4 minutes to go like Kansas did vs Michigan and completely went out of their offense and chucking up 3's while Self just watched it happen.

Memphis missed 4 of 5 FT's with less than 45 seconds.

Slightly different.

You're right, they had a 9 point lead with 2 minutes left which is even harder to blow. And they had already blown the lead by the time they got to the free throws you're talking about.

And again I'm stuck here wondering what you think your point is. If we're going by your logic then it's the coach's fault it was at 4 with over a minute to go in the first place. 4 points is nothing close to an insurmountable lead.

Let me tell you something pierce2walker, you out here talking about a clique. The only clique you need to know about is the USC Trojans and Andy Enfield. See, because what you dealing with here is Dunk City. It's non-stop from this point on in PAC 12 play. WE TAKE WHAT WE WANT!!! And after we take Jordan McLaughlin & Malik Pope, we want the gold sucka!

Let me tell you something pierce2walker, you out here talking about a clique. The only clique you need to know about is the USC Trojans and Andy Enfield. See, because what you dealing with here is Dunk City. It's non-stop from this point on in PAC 12 play. WE TAKE WHAT WE WANT!!! And after we take Jordan McLaughlin & Malik Pope, we want the gold sucka!