What do you do after losing a five-set heartbreaker in a Grand Slam? Well, taking recent history into account you take a month off and withdraw, that’s what you do. And Roger Federer did just that announcing last week that he will not be competition in either Tokyo or Shangai because his doctors advised him to rest.

Surprising? Not really.

Remember after losing to Rafael Nadal in Australia Federer passed up on Davis Cup and Dubai. Andy Roddick, who perhaps endured an even tougher defeat at Wimbledon, followed by withdrawing from Davis Cup and Indianapolis.

And now Fed’s made his announcement and I can’t blame him with two kids at home, 15 slams, scores of records, bushels full of money, I’d imagine it’s tough to find that motivation this time of year.

Turning to the guys who are playing, there’s not many. This week in Bangkok Jo Tsonga has returned to defend his title. He’s accompanied by countryman Gilles Simon.

Sam Querrey, who was the No. 3 seed, had to withdraw after slicing his arm open in a freak accident. Querrey sat on a glass table which gave way (they tend to give way if you are 6-foot-6) and the glass cut through his arm as he fell. Querrey needed surgery to close the wound and just like that, the promising American’s season is over. Luckily it sounds like his “rocket” right arm will recover just fine.

Also, Tsonga plays Ernests Gulbis in the Frenchman’s opener leading the question to be asked: Whatever happened to Ernests?

Speaking of whatever happened to, Joachim Johansson (remember him?) has made a positive return in Kuala Lumpur defeating Leyton Hewitt in the first round. Pim-pim used to once date Hewitt’s sister, Jasyln, years ago and now he’s getting over on big bro.

Common sense should have told Sam that a large man should NEVER sit on a GLASS table. It’s a TABLE not a chair! That was a little dumb but I hope he gets better. Glass anything vs a large man is trouble if you sit on it! Duh!

Bad timing for Querrey you would say ! Just when he was starting to get his ranking rise steadily, he is sidelined again…was he also sidelined for few weeks during clay season ? I am sure he is kicking himself for what happened. The positive thing is, next year there will be plenty of ranking points for grabs.

Sam, while to my mind not a legitimate threat (yet or ever?), had a chance to take advantage of some softer draws on faster indoor surfaces and boost his ranking into the top 15. Bad timing to say the least.

The back’s the “go to” injury in tennis. You need an “out”, just say it’s your back. To Fed’s credit he didn’t mention it, though the press is already jumping on that as a factor in Fed’s loss at the US Open.

And maybe his back was bothering him, I don’t know. But in NY Fed won six matches and he led DelPo a set, 5-4, 30-0 with little trouble but no one was talking about a back injury at that point, were they? No one.

Like Nadal’s alleged bad knee at the French, there were no hints of this back injury for Fed until…AFTER. So sorry, I don’t buy it. Nor did I buy any back trouble in Australia, nor any knee trouble for Rafa in Paris.

Well, that’s true generally, isn’t it? You wanna do something particular on a working day,easy, you find you’ve got a bad back. I believe in the UK, more working days are lost through “bad back syndrome” than anything else.

In my experience, you never know when you’re gonna suffer from bad back. Really suffer, I mean. You can work your balls off lifting heavy stuff all day long – nothing. You can bend down to tie your shoe lace – and you’re rolling on the floor in agony. And then there’s the moot point about what to do about it. To get immediate attention, you gotta pay. So you pay. Week after week. Eventually it gets better. But would it have got better anyway? That’s always the lingering suspicion. Pain in the neck, bad backs.

Meanwhile, in the link which jane gives, there’s all sorts of theorising about Federer having bad back to account for this, that and the other. But not from him, I’m glad to say.

“Doing commentary of the final for CBS, John McEnroe mentioned during the fifth set how Federer seemed to be having trouble getting his ball toss high enough on the serve – maybe now we know the reason why.”

Tension – as in nerves – can also cause problems on the toss and really throw off the serve.

For all his outlandish comments and tendency towards hyperbole, every once in a while, McEnroe will make some astute technical observations. I think he was spot on with the problems Federer was having on his serve. I myself noticed it at 4-3 in the second set, even though he won that game.

Federer has made no mention of any problem with his back, even after the Davis Cup tie Italy, where he indicated he had problems with his leg and arm, but not his back.

The ghost of Lew Hoad casts a long shadow.

On a side bar one of the reasons why McEnroe developed that distinctive serving style was a back injury. He injured it and he found it difficult to accelerate into the stroke without pain, so he developed that rotation on his served to give him the acceleration, using the weight of his body twisting naturally (without straining his back to do it) and the rest is history. In the end, he kept the delivery because opponents found it so difficult to pick up the location of the serve.

Here’s a clip of him playing the Wimbledon semi-final in 1977 against Connors, where his stance is more conventional.

Federer’s back was seriously bothering him at the end of 08, so why is it hard to believe it was still a factor at the AO where he served poorly? And even later? The back isn’t something that just heals one day and never bothers you again. I have back problems of my own and sometimes I feel great and other days it’s just terrible for no particular reason. Add almost 10 years to that and you have Federer dealing with something. He never said it was his back though this time so I don’t see why people are jumping on that. After Cincy he said his back was great, it’s possible it started hurting again, or it’s possible he is just fatigued and needs some rest. Is he faking fatigue?

Also, maybe no one else did, but way before 6-3 5-4 30-0 I was complaining about Fed’s awful serving. He got like 3 first serves in in the first set. And he only kinda picked up that percentage after he lost the second set. His serve was awful the whole way and it was because Del Potro was nervous that Federer was able to look so dominant. He may have still won the first set for all we know, but he wasn’t playing his usual dominant tennis. What if that was like Del Potro’s 5th slam final? The match probably would have been in straight sets because Del Potro wouldn’t be nervous about taking advantage of Federer’s poor play. And I’m not saying it was all poor play, because he played well off the ground, but Del Potro played better.

1. Federer’s back at the USO versus Rafa’s knees at the French – Fed’s never blamed his back for his USO defeat, never. Rafa made that huge spectable about his knees, which continues till today (a very clever way to talk about injuries is to say “I don’t want to talk about injuries” – until he loses!).

2. Rafa’s so called “serious” abdominal injury – they said it was an “acute tear of the ab muscle” how now miraculously healed up in 2 weeks! He must be superhuman, for such injuries to heal up so fast. And surprise surprise – on the court, the injuries don’t really seem to affect him! Now Rafa is playing both Beijing and Shanghai – so much for his bad knees or ab muscle tear!

3. About the US Open final – federer played upwards of 4 hours, 352 points – but only 13 aces, only 50% first serves, only 71% first serve points won, only 56% second serve points won, 62 unforced errors to only 56 winners – when was the last time federer served that badly, or had 11 double faults in a match, or won less than 2/3 of his own serve points? He LEADS the tour on these statistics in 2009. Perhaps he was a bit tired with only 21 hours between the tough semi against djokovic (while Del Po had an easier and earlier match). Or perhaps his back did affect his serve, and he is too classy to say that. Perhaps you have a better explanation.

at 28 years of age, Federer is much older than all of these guys, so his body will need rest. He has played 63 matches this year already, including 28 best of 5 matches (the max possible in a year), with several long 5-set matches. He is willing to risk his No 1 ranking to regain his health. It must be real. Now if only Nadal could make such good judgements about his schedule!

Fed will come back fit and rested for the three Nov tournaments, then take another 5 weeks off, and come ready to go at the AUS, something he couldn’t do last year that well, due to his clear back injury (remember him getting treatment at Shanghai against Murray?)

Yes, clearly that “Globe & Mail” article is speculation, and is couched as such. I posted it only because of sensationalsafin’s question about “who raised the back issue?” I haven’t heard Fed mention his back; after DC I think he said something like “my arms are tired, my legs are sore, everything needs a break…” so it sounded like all-round fatigue more than anything, and no wonder considering his success and what’s happened off court. Lots going on!

roger never mentioned that his back was bothering him @ uso. and yes i did read that his arms and legs were sore. how many times have we seen federer call for the trainer during a match? djokovic has retired in 3 majors due to supposed injuries. also, i didn’t read anything about nadals knees bothering him prior to fo. murrays wrist was suddenly bothering him @ uso, but he didnt use that as an excuse for his loss to cilic and federer never used his back as an excuse for losing to del potro. federer lost because he served crappy and everytime his 1st serve goes off, i just know hes going to lose the match. nevertheless, out of all the players thru these recent years, nadal and federer have rarely used injury excuses. federer is getting up there in age and im sure the body doesnt bounce back like it used to. 2010 should be a very interesting year. lots of competition in mens tennis. i will be curious to c if nadal is dominant again and regains #1 ranking. federer has already shown his vulnerability in the last 18 months so he won’t be dominant. lets c how murray & djokovic do as well. with roddick back in the mix and del potro new to the mix it should prove 2b a very interesting 2010 season. whos going to win australian open? who the hell knows!!!!!

Fed is GOAT: “when was the last time federer served that badly, or had 11 double faults in a match, or won less than 2/3 of his own serve points?”

Well, I certainly can’t remember him hitting 11 doubles in any of his matches (at least not in those which he played since the beginning of 2004, which is when I began following his career more closely), but then again, it doesn’t matter now… Good back or bad back – he lost that match, period! He could’ve been leading 2 sets to love, but JMDP won that 10th game of the 2nd set, then the whole set, and then later forced the match into the deciding 5th set, where he was CLEARLY the better player of the two. Case closed.

Honestly, in USO Federer played a bad final set and Del Potro played a great one. I’m sure Federer was shocked to be in a fifth set after winning the first set – after all, he almost never loses after winning the first set. So, he blew his chances, big deal.

Four finals of four slams at age 28, winning 50 percent of them and shattering the record for all time slam wins? He would be crazy to say that it was a bad year – it was a spectacular one, for any age and any fitness level. That Federer continues to feed such enormous expectations and back it up by making the finals, shows what a crazy era this is.

Federer said himself that he surprises himself at what he’s been able to accomplish and that other players would have beaten him more frequently, if it werent for errors at inopportune times (see Berdych, Thomas; Roddick, Andy; Haas, Tommy; the list goes on and on!) I think one of the reasons that Federer wins far more than other players is that he knows that a fellow player feels pressure when they are down 15-30 or 0-30 – or 0-15 to Federer – he knows that they dont want to be in that situation, and once they find themselves in it, find a self-fulfilling prophecy coming true. He knows that they cant handle it.

Del Potro was one player who could handle it – Nadal is another. But few handle it well – very few.

Bad back or no bad back, it’s really not the reason Federer loses matches. Cut the guy some slack, a year ago around now Federer won his 13th slam after an awful year in which he made 1 Grand Slam semifinal, and three slam finals. That is the kind of year that most players on tour will retire after, not because it’s a bad year, but because they know they will never get a better year.

(Take James Blake. He would definitely retire after a year like that, or SHOULD retire after a year like that!)

Enjoy him while you can. No one else will ever come close to accomplishing what Federer has in terms of grand slam consistency. In other sports there are records that dont fall. I am confidant that most of Federer’s records are not going to ever fall.

I agree with Mr. Randall. Federer’s not one for excuses anyhows – look how he came back from mononucleosis. They guy is like Sampras and the Jaime Yzaga US Open match, only Federer doesnt let anyone in on his injury if he ever has one.

If there is anyone like Ivan Lendl and his fitness regime in tennis, it’s Federer. Nadal would be there too, but Nadal always discloses the injuries and in the context of Nadal’s game (not easy on the body, not at all easy whatsoever) it makes sense.

I agree with Andrew. It’s no secret how big a Fed fan I am and I really don’t wanna see any excuses for why he didn’t win the USO. Besides the fact that there’s no point (he’s got no chance of winning the 09 USO ever again, anyway) it also discredits Del Potro, who earned his victory without a doubt. Fed’s got a bad back? Maybe. But he hasn’t said anything. Last I heard anything about his back from him was that it felt great. Maybe something else is bugging him, or maybe it is his back again. It’s very possible. But the only thing that matters is that he gets it fixed up so that he can win more in the future, not to explain why he didn’t win more in the past. When Federer plays a slam, I want him to win, but if he loses to someone like Del Potro, I don’t mind at all. Most importantly his 22 semi streak is intact, until then, whatever happens happens.

rafa is fully recovered and will start kicking butts at next week’s Beijing and then Shanghai. he will have luxury of fed’s absence. he will have no excuse for loss until he loses. maybe the ab or knee something else will return after he loses. which is perfectly normal as per the norm. it happens with every player.
rafa has also signed up for the DC final. great to see he is ready to roar.

as for fed’s loss, he could not serve, return well, hit winners, and had backache, stomachache, wrist twisted, knees swollen, nightmare, pink eyes obstructing vision, testicular pain, nervy, tired, what else?
that is how you lose a match.
and fed needed a timeout to reflect and recharge. once he is well-rested, well-prepared, 100% fit, and everything working, he will win again. and i will say that’s how you win a match. that’s how everybody wins a match.

No where and no place has Federer said his back is injured. That has been 100% press speculation. Let’s not blame Roger for the press publishing crap. In every interview since the US Open, Fed has given DelPotro full credit for playing a great match. I do believe he’s tired…he plays deeper into tournaments than most players, and he has newborn twins.

Nadal and his ever aching knees is another story. He does continually say he is tired and injured every time he loses. Actually, he says it before every tournament starts so if he wins he looks like a hero, and if he loses he has a built in excuse. I wish he’d stop doing that.

“Fed will come back fit and rested for the three Nov tournaments, then take another 5 weeks off, and come ready to go at the AUS, something he couldn’t do last year that well, due to his clear back injury (remember him getting treatment at Shanghai against Murray?)”
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Why is it every time Federer loses we see stuff like this? Isn’t it amazing how Federer auspiciously manages to time his injuries or dubiously debilitating conditions to coincide with every single one of his losses at a Major (or anywhere else for that matter)? It’s just incredible that his back, or his “mono”, never seems to really reach it’s maximum undercutting of Federer’s play during any of his six winning matches in a Major. No, it only optimally flares or appears as he’s getting ready to lose a match. Sheer coincidence, huh?

I wonder when his “back” went out at the US Open this year? Was it serving for the set at 5-4 30-Love in the 2nd Set? Well, according to Martina’s stat review, up until that moment Federer was 15 for 17 at the net. JMDP connected on two passes in that 10th game to break, and thereafter to the conclusion of the match Federer went 16 for 45 at the net; i.e, from highly positive territory into deeply negative territory. Geez..that sounds more like choky nerves than a “back problem”. And Double Faulting is a classic symptom of gagging, as the hallowed history of tennis has long since proved. I’d say the problem for Federer wasn’t in his back, but in his throat. He just couldn’t believe JMDP didn’t give a rip about having to play “The Federer”, especially in a Major Final. It was extremely courageous on the part of the Argentine. He’s not afraid of anyone.

Del Potro turned the match around by taking a page from the Nadal playbook against Federer, with a change to suit his own style. Once Del Potro started firing his Forehand Inside Out to Federer’s Backhand things changed. Rather than heavy spin Del Potro went there with heavy pace, and the shanks started piling up for Federer, whose backhand was now systematically breaking down. He went from Playing To Win to Playing Not To Lose after losing the 2nd Set. After losing the 4th, he just mentally short circuited. Del Potro just threw down in the 5th, daring Federer to pull out his Magic Rabbit out of the hat. Federer lost the match to a guy who overall played better than he did, and who wasn’t afraid to hang in there with him point by point and let it rip when he could. And when he did, Federer just had no answers. Bad back? BS. He lost on the square. It’s as simple as that.

Well, it’s about time the Fed express decides to stay off the tracks for a few weeks. I don’t know why he didn’t do it before. He’s got soo many records under his belt (likely to not be broken for many years to come), and he owns so much of the game. It’s too bad he won’t ‘rest’ during a slam. It would be nice to see a fresh face in the winners circle.

If Federer sat out a slam, then there’d be a giant asterik for that winner for the rest of his career. People put an asterik on Fed’s French for not having to beat Nadal himself. And the asterik at Wimbledon, too (even though I think the result would’ve been the same). If Federer missed a slam all together, no way would anyone let the winner live that down. I’d rather see someone have to topple Federer to win anyway.

Fed is GOAT did not raise the issue of the back so far as the US Open is concerned (he DID – tendentiously – do so w.r.t. the AO).

Why, then, another effusion from Voicemale1? Ah, I get it, Fed is GOAT accused Nadal of making excuses. What do you think, Voicemale1, do you think Nadal makes excuses? Does he claim tiredness just a bit too often, or is that ok? The defeats Federer has inflicted on Nadal on clay – are they legitimate?

“I wonder when his “back” went out at the US Open this year?” But who wonders with you, Voicemale1? Some in the media, yes. Is Federer to be blamed for them? Your tone strongly suggests he is. Is this honest?

Fed served crappy throughout the match with JMDP, not just in the sets he lost. His serve from most crappy in the first set. So something was off throughout the match. May be he is just too old to play 2 tough matches 2 days in a row.

OR

it could be a language issue! Nalbandian troubled him a lot early on. Then Nadal continues to trouble him. Now JMDP has beaten him in a slam final.

Can we please have a thread about the matches being played right now? Monfils is in another quarterfinal; Tsonga and Gulbis just played a cracker of a match, with Tsonga edging out Ernests in a 3rd set tiebreak. And there’s more to come.

It certainly is honest. Federer’s “ills” have been trotted out ad nauseum evry time he loses a match. The difference between the Federer “excuses” and the Nadal excuses in terms of credibility or acceptance by those around the world is clear and simple: the Federer “excuses” are accepted without question as fact; it’s Nadal’s claims who are met with rolling eyes. You either accept both or reject both – the truth is often times they’re both dubious, to say the least. But to say Federer’s travails are the reason he loses matches is just preposterous. As preposterous as anything any other player comes up with as a excuse for losing.

As I posted on another thread here, the greatest tennis myth this century is the Federer “Mono” BS. Not only did he not have to skip any tournaments because of it, not only did he still continue to win a heavy preponderence of matches – but he actually played in MORE tournaments during his supposed “mono” year of 2008 than in 2007, when he was supposedly healthy. The point being – Federer patetntly gets outplayed at the hands of others. But for some reason, his worshippers the world over just can’t accept that. They follow HIS lead – he was the one who kept floating his “illness” during his press conferences after he lost.

Unlike Nadal, even when he is injured, you’ll RARELY hear Federer say outright that he lost because someone else played better then him. Federer’s the first one to start trotting out either excuses or snide remarks about his losses. I get why he does it – you can’t be the champion he is without having your pride deeply wounded by losses of that magnitude. But the idea his poor play isn’t responsible for his losses is patently ridiculous. And it doesn’t get any more true, or honest, than that.

Jane says:
“Can we please have a thread about the matches being played right now?”

It is always my opinion that if Fed &/or Nadal (previously also Djoko & now maybe also Murray or) are not present in a tournament, then somehow, there is not much chatter on blogs. The current tournaments, especially Malaysia Open (with a good no. of top15 players) are all very interesting….so I’m surprised at the low level of interest. Were Fed or Nadal present in the current tournaments, there would have been at least two to three new threads with hundreds of comments….ranging ‘from did you see that shot’, to ‘oh, my, he fell/swore/threw a racquet/at 15-30 this or that happened’ to ‘xyz not friendly during the handshake’. lol. Basically, all sorts of comments.

Or maybe it’s just a time-zone thing with the Asian tournaments which makes it a bit difficult to follow for the majority of those of Europe, Africa, Mid-east & definitely the Americas.

been there, between tournaments I am very guilty of discussing everything under the sun, going off topic and so forth. But now that we’re deep into a couple of events, and with lots of great players coming though, it would be nice to discuss the matches, or at least read some updates, although, as you say, it’s tough to follow live due to time zone differences. But, for e.g., there’s an interesting story in the fact that Gasquet seems to be playing quite well on his return; does he have a point to prove? Also interesting that both Tsonga and Monfils seems to have found some form. Not to mention who will get the final spot for the top 8 YEC.

That Tsonga – Gulbis match must have been riveting to watch! I heard Gulbis hired Hernan Gumy as a coach. Is that true? Seems like he needed someone to help with his head about tennis. And Gumy has a lot of practice with head cases – he had Safin for a while :)

“It certainly is honest. Federer’s “ills” have been trotted out ad nauseum evry time he loses a match” – but you laid a big emphasis on the “back problem” w.r.t. the US Open. Federer said nothing about that.

“the Federer “excuses” are accepted without question as fact; it’s Nadal’s claims who are met with rolling eyes”. Eye of the beholder, it seems. I’d say 50-50 is nearer the mark.

The mono was, as mono goes, clearly slight – nothing unusual here. It obviously affected his performances, though perhaps not the outcomes of matches. One could be political, and just for the sake of peace deny the existence of the mono. The way some people carry on, it is tempting to do so. But the truth is as it is. Where health is concerned, raised voices and black and white pronouncements are not always sensible.

” he was the one who kept floating his “illness” during his press conferences after he lost.”

You said this before, and I asked you to provide the evidence. Even here, though, that is not straightforward. For instance, if Federer consistently volunteers the information, then he is doing as you suggest. But what if he is asked? If he actually was feeling, somewhat, the effects, do you want him to conceal it? And if he answers honestly how he is feeling, then can he be said to be “floating his illness?”

Of course, if you deny that he was feeling any effects – as I suppose you must, given that you regard the mono as a “myth” and as “bullshit”, then: whether Federer volunteers the information or not does not matter, because he is just lying.

That’s what it comes down to. Then it becomes a matter of judgement. Is Federer a compulsive liar of this sort? If that is what you think, then we must part company, and I have nothing further to add.

There is, however, a slightly different point (hinted at above). Some might argue that even if Federer was feeling the effects of the mono he should, in the interests of sportsmanship, have kept quiet about them. That is to demand very high ethical standards, standards which Federer does not meet. Nor do most of us, I would suggest.

Which is the whole essence of the argument. He mentions it, and has (where else do you think it came from?). And how was it “obvious” that it “affected” his performances? He shellacks everyone as usual in the early rounds of events only to face the later rounds and then loses – suddenly it’s the “mono” to be blamed for the loss while not hampering any time he won? In what way is it “obvious” he was affected, given he was playing MORE tournaments, not less?

“If that is what you think, then we must part company, and I have nothing further to add.”

Great. Happy to part ways with you. All you have to do is stop replying to any post I make and your wish will be granted.

If Federer needed to create an excuse for his losses, why mono? It’s not like he didn’t know about Ancic and other players who were out for months and years at a time due to mono. Why would he choose a disease that clearly has terrible effects on a player? Is it really so impossible that Federer didn’t have as serious of a case of Ancic? Most people are only sick with mono for about a month then it goes away. The players get a month or so from the YEC to the AO, or in Fed’s case, till Kooyong. And Federer did say he was sick during the off season. So there you go, there’s your month. Then he had some problems right before Kooyong that did force him to pull out. Then he was sweating like crazy in every match he played during the AO and even later. Federer doesn’t sweat that hard, he’s lucky in that sense. Then he had a break from the end of AO to Dubai, also a couple of weeks. Then he developed the back injury towards the end of the year. The body gets really weak with mono, and maybe Federer felt fine but his body wasn’t as ready as it should’ve been and after playing, he got the injury as a result of lingering mono. My main point is that why would Federer pretend to have mono when people can say “if you have mono, why are you still playing, let alone winning?” Why didn’t he just say he had the flu? Or a cold? Or severe jet lag? Things that he wouldn’t really have to miss any events except for in the most extreme situations, unlike mono where you DON’T miss events in the least extreme situation.

“But, for e.g., there’s an interesting story in the fact that Gasquet seems to be playing quite well on his return; does he have a point to prove?”

I’d say yes. I think the whole cocaine kiss saga showed him how close he was to losing his career. Had he been found guilty of consciously taking it, he’d have been banned for two years. And what does a successful tennis player, earning millions, do with the rest of his life at the age of 23 if tennis is all he’s known till then? He’d come back approaching 26yrs, & assuming that ATP maintains the same level, how successful would this comeback have been? Starting afresh from zero…attending challengers & qualifying for main evens…..the label ‘cheat’ hovering over him forever. Not impossible, but certainly very difficult. Yes, there’s life out of tennis, but first, he’d probably have gone through a mental breakdown, before perhaps going back to college (unlikely though) or starting some sort of business. Think about how difficult it is for a normal citizen to lose a job….even though you can apply to plenty others, it is still very difficult.

I think he probably had very deep reflections on his life; maybe saw that he’s wasting his potential (I at least thought so…so talented yet never giving his all), & decided to make amends. Train hard off-court & give 100% effort even when losing a match. I’m always of the opinion that even if a player is ranked #100, better to still give 100% effort on court than say a top20 who’s simply lazy thinking that he’s gonna cruise through merely by talent alone.

Most of his more direct interviews concerning the matter, his goals & regrets are in French so…..

Should he continue with the same level of dedication, then maybe in the long term, the near-ban experience will have done him more good than the mental challenge it caused. Sometimes one needs a bad experience to appreciate the good they have & probably to remind them that they actually love playing tennis (or more generally, whatever other job or activity).

One thing is for sure….no more constant partying & definitely kissing of strangers is a thing of the past. Really, cocaine issues aside, what was he thinking kissing a stranger? ai, even 1st yr uni students have more restraint & I’d expect a professional sportsman (who knows that drug rules are being tightened in all sports) to be more careful!! What a knuckle-head….as I always say, Gasquet is on a level of is own when it comes to my assessment of the frenchies tennis players mental state. lol.

Had he taken some some painkiller or an asthmatic used an inhaler (apparently a sportsman needs to inform relevant authority ‘coz the active ingredient ‘sulbutarmol’ in inhalers & related medicines falls a banned substance’!) it would have been more understood. But this cocaine thing with the kissing sub-title is from some ‘I’ve been framed’ type of movie. lol.

I’d suggest that those who want to comment on the matches could take that topic to the Tennis-X notes thread, which in itself is a miscellaneous thread, and can be used for any miscellaneous topics, as has been done in the past. That’s where matches could be discussed, and the “Venus” thread would be appropriate also.

Voicemale1: “Great. Happy to part ways with you. All you have to do is stop replying to any post I make and your wish will be granted.”

Oh my, that will NEVER happen. Because you’ll be taking all the pleasure out of the whole analysing and parsing scenario, whereby, word by word and line by line is precisely scrutinized and analyzed to the hilt. Then wee see responses with subtle hints that are attacking and insulting, but the recipients keep coming back for more. Now this is a book indeed that could be written. LOL. Anyway, VM1, at least you didn’t have to hear you were instrumental in the guy having to leave. OY VEY. Please don’t do that the storyteller has more stories to tell to complete his book with sequels one and two. LOL. Maybe, we’ll see a line if the book is incomplete, “you better read Act I, because there ain’t no Act II”.

Voicemale1, I caught only the tailend of Tsonga / Gulbis on streaming. As for Gulbis’s coach, I know he hired someone new because vared posted about it recently, but I am not sure if it’s the person about whom you ask. Sounds like he might be perfect for Gulbis, though, if he knew how to help Safin channel his talent and energy!

“All you have to do is stop replying to any post I make and your wish will be granted.”

The trouble is, this is a public forum. Therefore, if you shout very loudly and abusively on a subject matter of interest to some, that some will take it in a personal way. That’s how it goes, as your own performances testify. Lower the tone a bit, and the sense of provocation will naturally diminish.

Now, you say he “mentions it”. That’s a little different, isn’t it, to the sweeping claims you made earlier. But you still haven’t clarified how he “mentions “it. Does he broadcast it – or is he responding to an inquiry? Makes a difference, yes?

” And how was it “obvious” that it “affected” his performances? He shellacks everyone as usual in the early rounds of events only to face the later rounds and then loses”

Sensational Safin has partly answered the first sentence. But your line: “He shellacks…” is just not true. For instance, at Indian Wells in 2008 he first beat Garcia-Lopez 6-1, 6-4 not looking convincing as I recall. An easy match against Mahut, then Ljubicic 6-3, 6-4 – difficult to conclude much from that, then a walkover Haas, and finally the demolition by Fish. You overstate your case.

I have given you the reason why I have responded to your violent posts – not that many of them, actually. Your reasonable ones, which are generally excellent, I read with pleasure without feeling an impulse to respond.

I have tried to treat you with courtesy this time round, and your summary rejection of this, I cannot help suspecting, is due to you not being quite convinced of your own case. If a player that one favours is subjected to calumny it is natural, you know, to offer a defence. And I note that on the whole, you are disinclined to respond to specific points.

My guess on Federer’s poor serving has more to do with JMDP’s reach than anything else. Federer hits aces through placement and hitting his spots more so than by blasting the ball by his opponent. Trying to serve an ace by hitting a spot up the T or out wide against a guy at least 6’6″ with solid strokes on both wings means some spots will be missed resulting in second serves. JMDP has the ability to punish anything that sits up resulting in missed second serves. My theory is that the returner influenced the server. If a guy hit a double fault against Agassi or Connors sometimes it was because he knew an average second serve was not going to cut it. The typical kicking second serve is right in JMDP wheelhouse.

Dan, I semi agree. The double fault Fed hit to give JMDP one of his first match points, to me, was far from choking or back pain or anything. It was extremely obvious, to me at least, that Federer knew he had to hit a good second serve, and he accidentally over did it. Sh*t happens. I don’t think that’s the reason for his overall poor first serve percentage. Against someone who could crush his second serves, wouldn’t it be smarter to get more first serves in?

My memory is of all those first serves clunking into the net! I think your memory, even as you’re watching, plays tricks on you. You see 3 or 4 crash into the middle of the net (not even the top) and you gain a kind of subliminal impression that it’s happening all the time – which the stats tells you can’t be true. Oddly enough when a serve, just for a change, sails long, quite long really – the impression is enhanced, because you assume it is the result of the panicky server attempting to adjust!

Dan’s point is an interesting one, and I wonder whether here Federer is being penalised (for the first time?) by the fact that he does not have the fastest of serves. Usually before, excellent placement precluded the need for Sampras like speed. Maybe that will no longer be the case, at least against del Potro. Will be interesting to see whether Federer will try to up the speed against the Argentinian in future. One would have thought that even if he could, it would be at the cost of accuracy. Maybe that’s an acceptable trade?

I don’t think speed is more important than placement against Del Potro. Federer just needs to serve well. I define serving well as the ability to pick your spots when you need to and mix it up a lot. Roddick’s got a lot of speed on his serve but he’s still 0-3 against DelPo. Federer can pick his spots better than Roddick, so if he’s serving well, he doesn’t have to worry about being broken that much. He just needs to mix it up well, keep DelPo guessing. That way, no matter what the reach, if DelPo isn’t getting a good read on the serve, he won’t be able to return that well.

By the way, Fed served 52%, 56% and 55% in his last three wins over Hewitt, Murray and Novak to win in Cincinnati. I guess his back HAD to have been bothering him there too. Amazing how he didn’t drop a set in those three wins.

Fed serving bad could be: 1) his opponent dictated his serve; 2) he lost his serving rythm; 3) he has physical issues. See all these three do not exclude each other. And in most cases, all three contributed in different proportions to the resulting bad serving. Put down zero contribution from physical issues is just one answer, out of many possible ones.

It’s good to see JMDP stopped the old king. But,
I have no doubt Fed’s tired in the final. I’m 50/50 on if Fed had back issues in the final. When a player gets into the late twenties, parts go loose, more often than not. While Fed did say his back was great after Cincy and after USO back in Switzerland (to Swiss newspaper), he did complain about leg or arm aches. When Fed had bad back in TMC 2008, he mentioned his whole body ached cuz he was compensating the back. Fed’s focusing on his longevity. The last thing he wants the world to know is that his back issue is chronicle, especially consider that ten year fat contract with Nike.

Fed said it himself that sometimes the serve just doesn’t click. It happens. Whether it’s injury related or not, it happens. Maybe Fed’s toss looked weird because he didn’t know what to do with it since his serve was off. That’s what it was, off. It can happen to any stroke and to any player. And overall fatigue doesn’t mean he has a bad back, especially when he never said he has a bad back.

jane: thanx 4 link and thoughts. Oh what a bummer! He should NOT have played Davis Cup should he? Last time the wrist laid him low for months. Dash it! Dash it!
Hope Gulbis gets it together, such promise.

Jane, JJ eventually beat her nemesis Bartoli, before their match on thursday, bartoli has won 4 straight matches between the two. JJ seem to be playing well again, it will be a good match (Sharapova & JJ) for the final.

Soderling gets to play davydenko who he has a good record against. Looks like its Soderling all the way to the final.

Sharapova’s back! I haven’t managed to catch her serve, hope to watch the final, but if she can sort that, women’s tennis is gonna be very interessant next year. A couple of Belgians, a couple of Williamses, Sharpie – plus ca change? Odd that it should FEEL like a change, though.

Strongest surface for Soderling, of course. But can’t say I’m surprised. I’m weary of being disappointed by Berdych, such a beautifully clean striker of the ball. Not enough.

But despite Soderling’s achievements this year, for some reason he is still not quite given his due. I reckon he could prove, for a while, as dangerous as delPo is and Cilic (who demolished delPo for a set and a bit, remember) threatens to be. Only, because he’s been around for quite a long time now, there’s a tendency to doubt his credentials.

i did not have doubt Sod’s ability to defeat berdych but did not quite expect to crush him. Davy also easily dispatched monfils. he is in good form.
Sod’s 5-2 against Kolya so i am leaning toward my flat hitter in the next match. i hope he wins the title and replaces Simon for the top 10 spot, which can happen if simon does not win Bangkok title.
for Sod to get inside the top 10, he does not need to win the title. all he needs is win one match more than Simon. the guy totally deserves it and cannot afford to let it slip.

Soderling 5-2 – grrr! I wanna watch this! I loved seeing Soderling take Davy to the cleaners in the French. Not because I harbour ill feelings to the Davy. It was just such utterly exhilarating tennis.

I like Soderling a lot. He’s not my all time fave or anything, but the guy is enjoyable. I wanna see him in the YEC because I feel like he deserves it more than Tsonga or Simon or even Davydenko. He’s had an all around great year. He got to the second of week of 3 of the slams (AO?) and he’s won several small titles. He’s got an explosive game so it’s nice to see his head is in order and he can play within himself. Berdych can learn from this. So can Baghdatis, Gasquet, Gulbis, and some of the other young hot heads. The question is how much more damage can Soderling do? He now consistently beats players ranked below him, but besides he hasn’t really shown a lot of grit against the top 10 (except for at the FO). I guess you can say it’s because you don’t face a top 10 player until deep in the slams and he had to face Federer. How did he do in the Masters?

Davydenko also hits a flat ball so going with the flat hitter to win is like going with the guy with the racquet.

Anyone else want Verdasco to step up and claim one of the open spots? I’ve said it before but I really feel like Verdasco and Soderling are the most deserving of those last 2 spots.

Incidentally, Soderling said of his Berdych match:”The score looks easier than the actual match. In the first set we had close games”.

This is the thing about the tennis scoring system, we tend to be inconsistent in how we interpret it, at least I do and so do plenty of others. We all know what a good system it is. That no matter how badly a person is being thrashed, he can always come back from the dead. Up to a point this is possible in cricket, but in most football games not, except in freak circumstances.

And yet when we see a score line like 6-2, 6-1, automatically you assume there has only been one player in it. Not necessarily. A case in point, they say – didn’t see it myself – was Nadal’s defeat of Soderling in Rome. Looked like a massacre judging by the scoreline, not, it seems, by the actual play.

sensationalsafin – Verdasco beat Gasquet in 2 tight sets, so he’s still got a shot for the final 8. And Soderling continues to progress. Tsonga is up a break in the 3rd, but it’s interesting that most of his matches have gone the distance. But so have Simon’s.

Kimmi – yep, the Sharapova vs. Jankovic final could be a fun one to watch.

grendel – you ought to try streaming if you want to see these matches. Not sure if atdhe.net works for you in the UK but that’s where I’ve been able to find most matches.

When you witness a close match that ends with a score of 6-2 6-2, it indicates the mental fragility of the loser, atleast, on the day. When someone wins 7-6 7-6, we say the difference is that the winner played better and won the big points. So what happened when you win 6-2 6-2? Did the winner win a bunch more big points? Basically, yeah. Only when you have a lot of big points, they don’t seem that big. But I’d say that’s the case. The player who is tougher mentally, atleast on the day, wins all the opportunities he gets. Any match is filled with break point chances in where I think an average conversion rate is 1/3. So if you have 6 break points and win 2, there’s 2 sets. If you have 12, you win 4, there’s your 6-2 6-2 set.

Well it’ll be interesting if Tsonga has to face Isner in the semis, but Isner has to get by Troicki first. The other semi is Melzer vs. Simon. So it could be an all French final in Malaysia… or not.

In Bangkok, Sod should beat Davy but I think Gonza vs. Verdasco is 50/50. A Sod vs. Verdasco final would be about perfect given the year these two have had – both guys who’ve been around for some time, but who have managed to “announce” themselves this year.

I would tend to pick Sharapova over Jankovic because of Maria’s grit – has Sharapova won a title since her return? I don’t think so. She will want to cash in. However, JJ gets so much back that she’ll put a lot of pressure on Maria, and if Maria has any trouble on her serve, then JJ should win.

In general, yes I agree.
But say bloke A loses his first service game through a sort of dozy lack of application; bloke B had won his own serve to love in about 45 seconds flat, and poor old bloke A hadn’t properly emerged from the locker room and dreams of cream doughnuts. So in no time, he’s 0-3 down, and he hardly feels he’s been in the match. Anyway, he’s awake now, and it’s nip and tuck over the next 4 games. Bloke A serves at 2-5, seems to be doing alright, then gets a bit careless, the other fellow has a little bit of luck – there’s always luck somewhere in the equation – and before you know where you are, bloke B’s won the set 6-2. In this scenario, hardly a typical one admittedly, bloke A might actually have been playing the more convincing tennis. In this sense, a 6-2 score line might be thought of as misleading….

jane, I’ll be able to watch the woman’s final on the box. Thanks for the streaming info; for various reasons, that is not always practicable.

Isn’t that mental toughness? Coming out of the locker room not ready to play is a sign a fragility. Getting careless at the end of the set is more fragility. Either way it happens, if every game goes to deuce or if there are 4 really good games in the middle of the set, the player who is mentally tougher that day will win, whether the score indicates the closeness of the match or not.

Well, Troicki took the first set over Isner and very nearly broke him to start the second. Troicki I sometimes wonder about – he has a big game, huge serve, he’s tall (6’4″), he’s relatively young at 23 yrs – maybe he can break through and do well one of these days? He’s also won the only match he and Tsonga have ever played, thought Jo-Will retired in that one after losing the first set. Plus, Troicki has not had a great year. Interestingly, Isner has also won his only match versus Tsonga – this year at Washington. And Tsonga lost to Dr. Ivo at Wimbledon too. I don;t think Tsonga likes to play the big men/servers.

I don’t remember the place or tourny where Sod and the others are playing, but wow what an all star line up. It deserves more coverage atleast in terms of articles and stuff.

The Asian part of the tour is really starting to gain a lot of clout what with the new Olympic facility in Beijing, the relatively new stadium in Shanghai and the smaller events like Bangkok which for whatever reason seem to draw alot of big name players. The ATP really seems to see a big future there…the ATP website even has a Chinese translated version.

troicki is physically very strong kid. he needs more weapons; he only has a few. his defense totally sucks. he’s gotta acquire consistent offense. he’s got big serve. i’d like to see him becoming a power player with some more training and discipline.
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as far as flat hitter goes, Davy is behind Sod. i am not saying you win a match with that alone unless you are the dePo of the last 4 sets of the USO.

I am a sucker for powerful, deep flat shots, esp. the one you whack on the rise with your all might and that produces that sound on contact, almost invisible traverse, whizzing sound, big bang on the other side, and the way it skids off the court or the opponent’s racket. that’s just pure beauty. for me, everything else comes second.

like i said before, if not sod, i’d take hot sauce for the 8th man. verdasco of AO over Sod of FO, though.

Its not just the first serve percentage that matters. Its also double faults and points won. Victory OR defeat, tell me ONE match where Federer has made 11 double faults, AND won only 2/3 of his own serve points. He was just serving abnormally poorly in the final.

As to Fed’s mono – Fed went 66-15 in 2008, by FAR his worst year since 2003. (It was comparable to one of the best years by Sampras – but that’s a lower standard to apply!)

Having such a dip (he has improved significantly in 2009 compared to 2008) is certainly consistent with his having mono in 2008, wouldn’t you agree? Its at least more consistent with his having mono, than with his NOT having mono.

I don’t think any athlete in any individual sport has had the dominating run that he has had over the last 6 years or so, since Wimbledon 2003. Perhaps Jahangir Khan in squash in the mid eighties, but that’s it. Maybe Sergei Bubka in Pole Vault. But tennis is more competitive, and is played by many more people than squash or pole vaulting. Tiger Woods is certainly not in this category. At least not yet.

As I always say, the draws more times than not, have a bearing on how well a player will do in the final. I think Sharapova’s SF match may have taken a lot out of her energy stores. But she’s is the fitter of the two finalists, which means she could pull out the win. Jankovic had a trainer call during her match.

Isner played very well during the US hard courts, even when he lost some matches he made a good fight, but the loss today against Troicki was very straight forward. Although he lost in the Qtr final, its still a good showing for him. The big question is, can he keep the US HC form throughout the year ? well..at least on hard courts…with his hard hitting game I believe, he should also do well in indoor HC.

The draw looks very tough on paper, but we have all seen how Venus and especially Safina are struggling. Sharpie might play only Azarenka and maybe JJ (thinking of JJ good form from Tokyo)and if she is lucky to get thru..it could easily be all unseeded players to the final.

JJ starts with 2 straight games then Sharpie takes the next 5 games. Now JJ calls for a trainer, apparently a different injury from yesterday…It was shoulder yesterday, today it is wrist-not looking good.

It was a surprising retirement I am it, the crowed looked stunned and I must admit I was suprised, did not see it coming. JJ was playing very well in the beginning, while sharpie making a lot of UE, then sharapova started to find her game but JJ was still hitting deep and did few winners of her own.

Looks like she was hurting, she is normally a fighter but what a way to end the final. Now she will probably pull out from Beijing where she is a defending champion..oh well let wait and see.

Beijing draw revealed. Tougher draw for Novak than the one at USO. Victor Hanescu, Victor Troicki, Fernando Verdasco, Andy Roddick, Rafael Nadal. All of them in the way if he wants to win it… Horrible.

was hoping for sod-verdi final. disappointed. it was Kolya’s day. he appears determined to win the title and secure the 8th place in the YEC. not i don’t think hot sauce can stop him.
and wow troicki must have been on the zone to beat tsonga !
simon keeps his no. 10. sod will have to wait.

Simon is literally limping along (one leg with tendinitis and the other log seems very tired or about to give out) on his way to holding up that trophy. ha ha.

I’m happy for Davydenko, as he’s been struggling to find his game for quite some time now. I’m sure Davy’s confidence is high presently, which means he could beat Verdasco. And, if Davy wins the trophy, it will be fittingly deserved.

Just looking at the ranking points, if Verdasco wins tomorrow, he could oust Tsonga at the No. 7 spot, and Tsonga could drop to No. 9, that is if Davy wins also. translation, both Davy and Verdasco could make it to the YEC and not Tsonga. Tsonga also has winner’s points to defend at Bercy, which is 1,000 points. If he doesn’t, then he’ll drop out of the top 10 and Soderling could crack the top 10, depending on how well Soderling does at Beijing. What a roller coaster ride for these guys, and keeping in line with what I said at the end of last year, the top 10 this year will be a revolving door.

if my calculation is right, here are the numbers that you will see on Monday for the 3 potential YEC candidates
tsonga==3745
davy==3665 (if he wins tomorrow); 3565 (if he loses)
verdasco==3590 (if he wins); 3490 (if he loses).

however, this number does not eliminate the possibility of tsonga’s not making to the YEC, since it won’t be easy for him to defend Paris title.

as for Sod’s climbing inside top 10, i’m sure he will, before the end of the year.

Just to confuse myself some more, are they going to use Race points or Ranking points to qualify for WTF ? The reason for my question is, right now the race points positions are very different to ranking points positions especially from No. 7 downwards.

Attached is the race points that somebody has put together, ATP site seem to have abolished that completely as they did not want to confuse fans but this fan is still confused…maybe they will put the race up again as we get closer to WTF.

At this time of the year the race points becomes very important as the 52 week rolling points system still has points to drop out which does not give a good indication.

From the list, Verdasco is actually closer to qualify than say Davydenko and Tsonga, definitely a win in Malasya will improve his chances but even if he loses tomorrow he will still be ahead. It’s a close race and gives better indication than the ranking system.

i agree race to the YEC will continue to appear confusing at this point of the season until we get used to it. some may prefer a chart with weekly update in the last phase of the season.

basically, race point = ranking point minus points remaining to be defended, or more precisely, points earned in the ATP calendar year.

imo, the old race point system does not quite work because it does not exclude penalties.
for instance, the old race point system would include Soderling’s Båstad points. this example may not be accurate, but that is the idea.

in this sense, the ranking point reflects the correct race point in the new system.
correct me if somebody knows better.

I am it, thanks for answering my question. You brought up a very good point re: not excluding penalties. I would also like to know if this is the case as I have always believed the two systems should coincide at the end of the season (when all tournaments are played), that means all penalties are excluded.

Roger Federer pulling out of the Asian Tour had nothing to do with his back, but it did have to do with fatigue and an abductor strain in the right thigh…..Also, had Federer won the US Open and not had a thigh problem or fatigue he was not going to play the tournaments in Asia…..I do not want too make Federer sound egotystical but the tournaments in Asia are not worth his time……He won the French Open and broke the record at Wimbeldon and has become the undisputed GOAT, so why go to Asia…..You don’t!……Federer will take these 5 weeks and rest, and than begin training for the strong push to finish the year ranked #1 in the world……Basel, the Paris Masters, and the Masters Championships in London will be his final competition for 2009……..In 2010 expect Federer too win 2 out of the 4 majors again and possibly the Calendar Slam…..I really feel he could do it next year……But Frankly he never has to win another tennis match in his life……

sportsfan- just curious where or from what source you found the info on federer’s right thigh injury? and was it adductor or abductor strain? either or both can be associated with low back pain, as you probably know.

tebbuts in his ‘globe and mail’ piece cited the tribune du geneve as his source for federer mentioning having back pain.

a strain in general can vary greatly, as in needed 2 weeks to 2 years!! i simply would like more info, if there is any. thanks

Did you not watch the US open final??? Fed couldn’t even toss the ball over his head let alone serve the ball into the court, his back was obviously a problem in that final. Mcenroe made reference to the fact that Roger couldn’t throw the toss properly and suspected a back problem.