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Take it slow. A call-up isn't a bad idea but he should probably just throw on the side. Maybe get into a game or two but, unless he's lights-out in the spring, back to the minors to start '08.

Absolutely not. He has nothing to prove in the minors, besides his health.

Add that to the fact that theres a good chance he'll be out of options, and he obviously should be in Baltimore next season (and the end of this season as well). Remember, the only guy in the system who's put up numbers similar to Penn in the minors was Bedard. He doesn't need to get AAA hitters out anymore, he's proven he can do that time and time again. He needs to be getting major league guys out, whether out of the bullpen or as a starter. I'd prefer him starting.

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Absolutely not. He has nothing to prove in the minors, besides his health.

Isn't this a lot, his health? His make-up proved less-than-perfect in the past. Why throw him into the mix now, when he's sat virtually all year?

It's not about proving anything in the minors, it's about putting him in a position to succeed. He's still young enough that he's got to make up for a year of lost development. He can't possibly be better than he was last year - and he's likely worse (if only because of rust). This just makes no sense to me.

He doesn't need to get AAA hitters out anymore, he's proven he can do that time and time again. He needs to be getting major league guys out, whether out of the bullpen or as a starter.

You assume he'll be able to do that this year. What if he can't? What are the long-term effects of another abysmal major league stint? Is the - arguable - temporary stasis in his climb to the pros such a danger that we're willing to risk throwing him into the fire? I don't get it.

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You assume he'll be able to do that this year. What if he can't? What are the long-term effects of another abysmal major league stint? Is the - arguable - temporary stasis in his climb to the pros such a danger that we're willing to risk throwing him into the fire? I don't get it.

I am assuming he'll still be able to do it, because this wasn't a devastating injury like a TJ would be and theres no reason to think that once the rust is off he'll have any lingering effects or lose his terrific command and stuff. His numbers even in his rehab starts suggest he's had good command.

Once he's healthy enough to pitch and has built back his arm strength to the appropraite point, I think every day he spends in the minor leagues is a complete waste. Get him up to the majors. At this point I'd rather have him in Baltimore's bullpen than Norfolk's rotation.

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I am assuming he'll still be able to do it, because this wasn't a devastating injury like a TJ would be and theres no reason to think that once the rust is off he'll have any lingering effects or lose his terrific command and stuff. His numbers even in his rehab starts suggest he's had good command.

Once he's healthy enough to pitch and has built back his arm strength to the appropraite point, I think every day he spends in the minor leagues is a complete waste. Get him up to the majors. At this point I'd rather have him in Baltimore's bullpen than Norfolk's rotation.

Well, I don't think there's any way he ends up in the rotation unless someone gets hurt. But even if he were, he's got nothing to build on this year to sort-of "spring" him into the majors. He's not like Bedard, who could come off a year out with TJ and still will his way onto a major league roster. Obviously different make-up.

Besides, and this is just me, I think I'd rather him throw 7 innings every five days in the minors than have the O's try to get him makeshift major league innings this year.

I get where you're coming from - and I'm not down on Penn (I tend to think the previous troubles are merely minor obstacles). But I just can't think that it's going to be all about arm strength for a kid who's had an erratic couple of years and then sat for months and months.

We can agree to disagree - I think, in the end, we see eye-to-eye on Penn's potential. Just a question of how he might be used.

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Well, I don't think there's any way he ends up in the rotation unless someone gets hurt. But even if he were, he's got nothing to build on this year to sort-of "spring" him into the majors. He's not like Bedard, who could come off a year out with TJ and still will his way onto a major league roster. Obviously different make-up.

Besides, and this is just me, I think I'd rather him throw 7 innings every five days in the minors than have the O's try to get him makeshift major league innings this year.

I get where you're coming from - and I'm not down on Penn (I tend to think the previous troubles are merely minor obstacles). But I just can't think that it's going to be all about arm strength for a kid who's had an erratic couple of years and then sat for months and months.

We can agree to disagree - I think, in the end, we see eye-to-eye on Penn's potential. Just a question of how he might be used.

An erratic couple of years? His minor league numbers have still been excellent, he's only struggled in the majors. He's not like John Maine who posted a mid 4's ERA after a few years of dominating. He kept it up. The only player in the system who's minor league numbers come anywhere near Penn's is Bedard. He blows everybody else away.

And all these shots at Penn's makeup are really starting to annoy me. They are pretty much baseless, and he always has looked poised to me even when getting hit hard. He's never had that "deer in headlights" look that some others have had, he knows he has the stuff to be a major league starter, and by next season he will be.

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Wasn't everyone bashing the FO for not calling Penn up sooner last year and then when they did and he got hammered it became that they'd called him up too soon after his apendectomy? I seem to remember that; perhaps nobody else does. Penn, imo, still has plenty to prove- like his health, like he is still the same pitcher after sitting out most of this year and a lot of last year. There is no reason to rush him; there is no place for him in the rotation in Baltimore anyway and calling him up only wastes an option. He should complete the year in AAA and then come to ST and fight for a long-relief spot in the pen. If he doesn't get it he should start next year in AAA with Liz and wait for the inevitable injury, just like he has the last two years. Hopefully, this time he wont get hurt himself and when the bell rings next year he'll be able to answer it.

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Wasn't everyone bashing the FO for not calling Penn up sooner last year and then when they did and he got hammered it became that they'd called him up too soon after his apendectomy?

I would have liked to see him sooner, but apparently they were waiting because he wasn't 100% even several months after the appendectomy. I don't know how much his struggles last year were due to the appendectomy or him just being a young pitcher in the very early stages of an MLB career. I think it was mostly just the youth. His struggles don't really lower my expectations of him very much.

Also, he wouldn't use an option if he's called up to the majors. You use options for being sent down, not called up. And you can only use one a year, so unless they shut him down at the end of his rehab (he is very close to the 30 day limit) and can get lucky to get the option he used when he was sent down in April returned, he'll already have used his option this year (his last).

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An erratic couple of years? His minor league numbers have still been excellent, he's only struggled in the majors. He's not like John Maine who posted a mid 4's ERA after a few years of dominating. He kept it up. The only player in the system who's minor league numbers come anywhere near Penn's is Bedard. He blows everybody else away.

And all these shots at Penn's makeup are really starting to annoy me. They are pretty much baseless, and he always has looked poised to me even when getting hit hard. He's never had that "deer in headlights" look that some others have had, he knows he has the stuff to be a major league starter, and by next season he will be.

Boy, Mackus, heaven forbid the board start to annoy you. I just can't imagine how it took so long.

I'm not just talking about "deer-in-the-headlights" makeup issues. First, what I meant is that Bedard has a sort-of unflappable demeanor - he fashions himself a baseball outsider and doesn't get caught up in the fanfare. Almost no one has this kind of make-up and it's not a knock on Penn. It's simply an advantage for Bedard.

But, even if we choose to take a look at it as a criticism addressing "makeup issues", we were privy this Spring to info passed on through Roch's blog that the Orioles were disappointed in both Hayden's lack of professionalism (the forgotten equipment was just part of this) and his low expectations for himself (he seemed content with just getting by.) I've tried searching for the articles/blog entries that talked about this, but only found this one so far (I'll keep looking...)

The Orioles aren't thrilled with Penn at the moment. He needs to improve their perception of his attitude. An incident like this one doesn't help.

Penn didn't endear himself to team officials last year when he appeared distracted, or at least in a rush to complete a rehab start at Double-A Bowie.

We're all aware of Penn's minor league numbers. I wasn't blown away by Penn's 2005 (though he was still young for AA and it remains a "good" year). I was less-than-impressed with his command in the majors. I would say that, yes, his last few years have been up-and-down. Part of this is his inability to stay healthy - bone spurs, appendectomy, ankle injury, whathaveyou. Part of this is his failure to follow a clean trajectory.

But I'm not sure Bedard is a fantastic comp - Bedard was dominant in the minors. Penn has rarely been dominant. He's been consistently good-to-very good and advanced for his age. Bedard's numbers don't "come near" Penn's by the way - they decimate them (but should accordingly be discounted for age.)

Olson's number come quite close to Penn's. They're better, but - again - discounting for age, comparable.

Excepting the most extreme situations, which this is not, someone should not be penalized for expressing an opinion. In this case he didn’t even express an opinion, he merely agreed with someone else’s. I don’t know what it was and I don’t care. I usually don’t have a problem with atomic, but I take strong exception to his position, and I lament that there are many people who agree with him.
People must have the freedom to express themselves. Drew Brees did not say anything wrong. He has nothing to apologize for. Kapernick doesn’t have a need to apologize either. Reactions to expressing of opinions are so rapidly over the top that soon no one will express any opinions at all except those who loudest and most extreme.
Akin Did not do anything wrong, he didn’t do anything for which he needs to apologize, And people really need to look very closely at what they are advocating.