A bit of Infinity War news that some of you might perhaps find interesting: it won't screen for critics until a mere 3 days before the release date. You will recognize this move as one that studios usually make with movies they know are bad in order to prevent negative word-of-mouth from getting out before opening weekend. In this case, Marvel claims it's been done to "protect the movie's secrets."

Ribbons wrote:A bit of Infinity War news that some of you might perhaps find interesting: it won't screen for critics until a mere 3 days before the release date. You will recognize this move as one that studios usually make with movies they know are bad in order to prevent negative word-of-mouth from getting out before opening weekend. In this case, Marvel claims it's been done to "protect the movie's secrets."

I think this is a case of a desire for as many people as possible to see it "fresh", without knowing the big surprise/twist that the directors say define the movie. the title of the next Avengers movie isn't being released yet because the title itself is a spoiler for what happens in Infinity War. movie reviewers are hardly a bunch of people that are considered to have either a high degree of ethics or intelligence, so I think the studio is perfectly justified in not trusting them to keep the lid on a big "secret" about a part of the movie which they think will lessen people's enjoyment, and therefore the impact, of the movie. you watch, there will be reviews that spoil "it". but with the reviews released only a few days before opening weekend there will be less people who are unfortunate enough to be exposed.

So Infinity War: The Revenge of the California Raisins is finally upon us. It's the culmination of the last 10 years and 20 movies of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. That's a lot riding on one film and I can't possibly imagine it living up to the hype, but I'm seeing it tonight so I guess I'll find out soon enough. If anybody else wants to comment on Disney's Marvel's Avengers 3, please remember to use spoiler-text.

a visual feast for the eyes, great fx, too, overall, imo. excellent job with Thanos.

they did a pretty good job at giving everyine their moment.

they did a fairly good job of going back and forth between groups with the pacing, and yet I think they had SO much they were trying fit in that they sacrificed some emotionaol depth, especially with the Scarlett Witch-Vision relationship.

Thanos is easily the best realized Marvel villain to date with this movie, and a case could easily be made that he is the true protagonist of the movie, this is HIS movie, he has a true arc here.

one scene that is very crucial uses a very cliché plot mechanism that bugged me, but in retrospect I realized that had to go the way it went.....

the after credits scene was very good for what it was, and a nice nod and wink to Captain Marvel as the next big addition to the MCU and a key player in defeating Thanos in Avengers 4

Marvel went all in on this one and showed a commitment to their creative material rarely seen, if ever, by a studio with a cash cow like the Avengers and I have to give them a shitton of credit for it.

it is among the best comic-book/genre movies ever made, but the way they play things in out in 4 will affect the way I look at this movie so I can't say "best", and if 4 is done at this level of quality and they pull this story of without resoring to tired tropes (like some sort of time travel loop to go back and change the past; hello Star Trek...... ) then that one will be in the running for best ever.

Last edited by Peven on Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

When God in the Old Testament thought mankind had gotten out of hand he sent a flood that wiped out 99.99% of all life. Thanos only wants to cull 50%. I know the writers are aware the types of themes and tropes they are using and I wonder what they "saying" aside from examining "the sacrifices it takes to be a hero", the supposed thematic endeavor of the movie.

If you want to discuss one of Infinity War's themes, consider that the acquisition of each Infinity Stone involved the decision whether or not to let someone die: 1) Loki offering up the Space Stone/Tesseract to save Thor's life, 2) Star-Lord attempting to grant Gamora a mercy killing when she falls into Thanos's hands at Knowhere, 3) Thanos sacrificing Gamora's life to get the Soul Stone, 4) Doctor Strange giving Thanos the Time Stone rather than let him kill Tony, and 5) Wanda killing The Vision in order to destroy the Mind Stone. Each of these decisions was made with great difficulty, and some of them were not necessarily the correct or logical ones. The themes or questions in this case being, how do you value life? Would you be able to end a real one to save a hypothetical one? And where is the line between murder and sacrifice?

i'm not so sure that Thano IS a negative portrayal of god by the writers, given that he is a more merciful than God 1.0.

what about the Reality Stone? what was the sacrifice there?

I do think that sacrifice is the key here, though, and as part of that comes the examination of priorities, morality. what is right? what makes a sacrifice holy and what makes one selfish? In Thanos's mind what he did to Gamora is no different than what Quill was willing to do, what Wanda was willing to do; sacrifice the one most dear to their heart in order to serve a greater good. can you say Abraham and the burning bush? Dr Strange didn't act on a principle of faith in sacrifice, though, he acted on knowledge of seeing which path led to the 1 victory for them out of millions of possible outcomes. if the future he saw had shown success after Iron man was killed by Thanos he would have sat there and watch Tony get gauntleted to death.

Peven wrote:what about the Reality Stone? what was the sacrifice there?

That one was Star-Lord deciding to kill Gamora when she fell into Thanos's hands. It ended up not making a difference, especially since the twist immediately afterward was that Thanos had the Reality Stone the whole time and was using it to trick them, but it was of a piece with the rest of the sacrifices in the film.

Your take on Thanos is interesting. IS there a difference between Star-Lord killing Gamora because he loves her and Thanos killing Gamora because he loves her? Peter seems to think so, repeatedly screaming "No you didn't!" when Thanos claims that he had to. I don't know that the story ever comes down on his side (personally I feel like we needed just a little more backstory on Titan), but it certainly asks the characters and the audience to put themselves in his shoes from time to time. I think he's an intriguing figure because of his contradictions. A lesser film would have made him relentlessly violent and cruel, but he's capable of affection and even kindness in random moments, sparing people's lives out of mercy when he has no reason to. Combine that complexity with Josh Brolin's soulful performance and his voice is a hard one to get out of your head.

Peven wrote:what about the Reality Stone? what was the sacrifice there?

That one was Star-Lord deciding to kill Gamora when she fell into Thanos's hands. It ended up not making a difference, especially since the twist immediately afterward was that Thanos had the Reality Stone the whole time and was using it to trick them, but it was of a piece with the rest of the sacrifices in the film.

Your take on Thanos is interesting. IS there a difference between Star-Lord killing Gamora because he loves her and Thanos killing Gamora because he loves her? Peter seems to think so, repeatedly screaming "No you didn't!" when Thanos claims that he had to. I don't know that the story ever comes down on his side (personally I feel like we needed just a little more backstory on Titan), but it certainly asks the characters and the audience to put themselves in his shoes from time to time. I think he's an intriguing figure because of his contradictions. A lesser film would have made him relentlessly violent and cruel, but he's capable of affection and even kindness in random moments, sparing people's lives out of mercy when he has no reason to. Combine that complexity with Josh Brolin's soulful performance and his voice is a hard one to get out of your head.

remember in the Reality Stone sequence there was also Gamora crying over the killing of Thanos by her hand, proving that she loved him but was also willing to sacrifice him for the good of the universe.

this question is not a new one by any means. during WWII there was a US pilot who guided his plane into an enemy ship to take out as many as he could on his way out and he was hailed a hero, therewas even a song written about his heroic tale.........but then the Japanese started flying their planes into US ships and all of a sudden personal sacrifice to strike at the enemy was a dastardly, cowardly tactic according to the US point of view. how quickly ideals and principles look different and can be discarded when the "other side" adheres to them. most people are trapped in their little personal provincial perspective where whatever their side does is good and right and whatever the other side does is wrong and evil. i think the writers of Infinity War are playing on that somewhat.

if we want to get all abstract and philosophical then we should give Thanos, the MCU Thanos, credit for being the altruist that he is. when afterlife little girl Gamora asks him how much it cost him he says, "everything" and he means it. he has truly given everything he has, even the one being in the entire universe he truly loved, to accomplish what he thought was best for the universe. he didn't do it for himself. he has nothing at the end of Infinity Wars. his army is gone. he rules over no one, nowhere. he has no riches. no empire. he has sacrificed everything, the only thing he is left with is the sense, the belief, that he has done the right thing, and he is ok with that.

when the Avengers make a sacrifice it is when there is no other choice, when they have nothing left to lose in their mind. is sacrifice in instances like that all that admirable compared to the sacrifice made by someone like Thanos to do the "right" thing when he had no outside threat forcing him to do so, no iminent doom if he didn't? he could have lived an eternity of pretty much doing doing whatever the fuck he wanted; wealth, power, pleasure, etc. and he willingly, without coercion or threat, sacrificed it to do what he believed was the right thing to do by the universe. not for himself. whether you agree with it or not what he did was selfless.

now, some will jump to the conclusion that I am saying that Thanos is "good". i'm not. i'm simply pointing out that concepts and principles that we automatically accept as "good", such as being selfless, following one's belief above all else, dedication, hard work, etc are only "good" to us when they are qualities of an entity we like and agree with. and so maybe we should reexamine the way we elevate these qualities in our society as virtues. "hard working" is one i really get sick of being used to compliment and prop up people. as if being hard working is a virtue. it isn't. all sorts of total pieces of shit throughout history have been very hard working. being hard working didn't elevate them to be better people, being hard working only helped them accomplish more evil in their lives.

I've missed the last few Marvel movies (spiderman, black panther, GoTG2), but I've been more or less following along on, so I wasn't totally lost. This was fun as hell. And despite the subject matter, still funny at all the right parts. I'm sure they'll release some super duper 4 hour version eventually, there were certainly some spots that looked like things were missing.

Sadly, we all know that a good chunk of these guys aren't really dead, or at least won't be for long.

Also, I've watched Justice League then this back to back in the span of a few weeks....holy shit what a crazy contrast in how to make a superhero team-up movie!