Runs like shit for how mediocre it looks, camera is terrible, party-based game with braindead party.

Says you.

So you can tell me with a straight face that the game doesn't run like shit for how mediocre it looks? Son, I got fucking 30-40 frames outside in HDR Oblivion, and 60+ inside. I have to turn off all shadows, ground normal mapping, and turn down other bells-n-whistles settings JUST TO GET TWENTY BLOODY FRAMES A SECOND in NWN2. The game is NOT that good-looking or complex to warrant bullshit like that. It's just assy, amateur programming.

Speaking of assy, amateur programming: the companion AI is objectively bad to the point of broken. Not just spellcasting AI, I'm talking ANY companion AI. The Jaheria-clone Druid just shapeshifts into some weak ass form and ignores all her spells. Every fighter stays 20 feet behind you til the fight's half over, then moseys in circles around your opponents, popping Attacks of Opportunity as he clumsily tries to use Knockdown (regardless if "use combat feats" is on or off) like a fucking wasted Orville Redenbacher. And casters of any sort just burn all their spells on the first fight. Good game.

That leaves the only matter that opinion can actually factor into: the camera. Maybe you're an idiot savant and the syrupy, off-angle camera makes sense you to. Maybe you like struggling with the mouse wheel, trying to find just the right spot between the dungeon wall and your character's ass -- but even then you can only see two feet in front of you, so why the fuck bother? It's sloppy, unresponsive, and miscalibrated. But hey, some people actually get off on digging through other peoples' waste.

See, now you want to talk about real matters of opinion, I could get into the yawner of a storyline replete with every fantasy cliche known to man, or the trivial, vapid combat, or the utter lack of roleplaying or freedom. THAT is opinion stuff. Heaven knows there are still some people who just adore dialog trees with might-as-well-be-clearly-labelled-cause-they-appear-in-the-same-order-every-time Good/Neutral/Evil responses. Some people are just stupid and/or naive enough to think that constitutes "roleplaying" or "freedom."

Runs like shit for how mediocre it looks, camera is terrible, party-based game with braindead party.

Says you.

So you can tell me with a straight face that the game doesn't run like shit for how mediocre it looks? Son, I got fucking 30-40 frames outside in HDR Oblivion, and 60+ inside. I have to turn off all shadows, ground normal mapping, and turn down other bells-n-whistles settings JUST TO GET TWENTY BLOODY FRAMES A SECOND in NWN2. The game is NOT that good-looking or complex to warrant bullshit like that. It's just assy, amateur programming.

Speaking of assy, amateur programming: the companion AI is objectively bad to the point of broken. Not just spellcasting AI, I'm talking ANY companion AI. The Jaheria-clone Druid just shapeshifts into some weak ass form and ignores all her spells. Every fighter stays 20 feet behind you til the fight's half over, then moseys in circles around your opponents, popping Attacks of Opportunity as he clumsily tries to use Knockdown (regardless if "use combat feats" is on or off) like a fucking wasted Orville Redenbacher. And casters of any sort just burn all their spells on the first fight. Good game.

That leaves the only matter that opinion can actually factor into: the camera. Maybe you're an idiot savant and the syrupy, off-angle camera makes sense you to. Maybe you like struggling with the mouse wheel, trying to find just the right spot between the dungeon wall and your character's ass -- but even then you can only see two feet in front of you, so why the fuck bother? It's sloppy, unresponsive, and miscalibrated. But hey, some people actually get off on digging through other peoples' waste.

See, now you want to talk about real matters of opinion, I could get into the yawner of a storyline replete with every fantasy cliche known to man, or the trivial, vapid combat, or the utter lack of roleplaying or freedom. THAT is opinion stuff. Heaven knows there are still some people who just adore dialog trees with might-as-well-be-clearly-labelled-cause-they-appear-in-the-same-order-every-time Good/Neutral/Evil responses. Some people are just stupid and/or naive enough to think that constitutes "roleplaying" or "freedom."

Get over yourself. Just because YOU don't like the graphics doesn't mean that they're terrible for everyone else. I'd agree with you on many of the points above - in fact, I have if you read the thread - but it's all a matter of opinion, not fact. So calm down, "Son", before you soil your diaper.

Get over yourself. Just because YOU don't like the graphics doesn't mean that they're terrible for everyone else. I'd agree with you on many of the points above - in fact, I have if you read the thread - but it's all a matter of opinion, not fact. So calm down, "Son", before you soil your diaper.

So you're telling me if I take the fanboi pill, the performance issues will disappear and the AI will suddenly be competent?

Get over yourself. Just because YOU don't like the graphics doesn't mean that they're terrible for everyone else. I'd agree with you on many of the points above - in fact, I have if you read the thread - but it's all a matter of opinion, not fact. So calm down, "Son", before you soil your diaper.

So you're telling me if I take the fanboi pill, the performance issues will disappear and the AI will suddenly be competent?

no sry. Those are objectively broken issues -- ie, bugs.

No, those are objectively broken issues for you. You don't get to speak for the rest of the world.

Seriously, LE may be having issues but if my machine (3200 A64, 6800GT) can handle this game on high settings with just a few things turned down then the most you can say is that it may not have been compatibility tested well.

I also don't see the "OMG THE AI SUXORS!" complaints. Yeah, it's not the greatest when it encounters doorways in the middle of a fight, but it's not like you can't pause the game and tell them what to do. Sure, it's a few moments of micromanaging but not the end of the world. Hell, I'm playing on normal difficulty and I've only had to reload a few fights and I'm near the end of Act I. And all I've done is tell my NPC's to stay close and attack who I attack. Some you act like you have to reload everytime one of your party members dies . . .

At this point I would say my negatives are a slightly annoying NPC AI behavior (but not game killing by any stretch) and some boredom with the "room full of enemies after room full of enemies" level design in places that reminds me of the worst parts of IWD. The positives greatly outweigh the negatives.

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Roger: And you should know, I have no genitals.Syndey: That's alright. I have both.

I think I finally got into the good parts last night (ACT 2 SPOILER ALERT!).

Spoiler for Hiden:

The demon assassination attempt was neat, though I had to replay it because the script broke yet again. Then the whole trial issue was pretty well-done, if a bit predictable. Then I got my keep and started upgrading that...which is nice, because I was starting to wonder what to do with 200,000 gold. Finally, I really enjoyed the whole purification area. That was really the first time I felt the gameworld had some "soul".

I have the settings turned all the way up, the graphics and performance are fine, but the combat is awfully boring... A bunch of people standing around with weapons who occasionally yell out and smack an enemy. I hope the story improves to compensate.

I have a fairly high end dual core system, so the game runs fine for me with all the bells and whistles turned on.

Not to be contrary but 'fine' is subjective. What res are you running at and what are your FPS? Because unless you have something like a 4Ghz C2D and maybe quad SLI, you arent getting 30+ FPS with full shadows, water, etc. at high res. It just isnt possible. And for me, a constant 30+ FPS would be what I call fine.

FWIW I have a 3Ghz C2D E6600 2gig RAM and an X1900XT. At 1680x1050 I still drop below 30 occasionally with Shadows off and water reflect/refract off. Turning on both of those options (shadows especially, on full) drops FPS to below 10 in some scenes, its brutal.

I've got a P4 3.0 Ghz, 2G RAM, and 7800 GS and at 1280x1024, I get a pretty constant 30 fps with bloom, environmental normal mapping, water reflect/refract all off and the shadow setting on the one that is character shadows only (low or medium I forget).

"The net result of all of this -- performance, camera, A.I., interface -- severely sours the experience and tests the patience of those who simply want to boot the game and play. Who wants to work this hard to have fun?"

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All truth goes through three stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer

"The net result of all of this -- performance, camera, A.I., interface -- severely sours the experience and tests the patience of those who simply want to boot the game and play. Who wants to work this hard to have fun?"

Sorry, but once again I have to disagree. I have an old P4 3.2 ghz, 1gb RAM (crappy PC2700) and a 7800 GS (was originally running the game with a Radeon 9800 XT)

I have never once had a crash. I can run the game at 30+ FPS at 1280x1024, High settings on everything but shadows and water reflections. The camera isn't a problem for me, I never have difficulty positioning it where I want it. The AI isn't great, but it isn't bad either, I have never had it take away from my experience, and the interface is beautiful. Everything I need is either a rightclick or one keystroke away.

I don't understand the bad performance people have on systems way better then mine.

"The net result of all of this -- performance, camera, A.I., interface -- severely sours the experience and tests the patience of those who simply want to boot the game and play. Who wants to work this hard to have fun?"

Actually he doesn't. A 6/10 on their scoring scale means an above average game.

"The net result of all of this -- performance, camera, A.I., interface -- severely sours the experience and tests the patience of those who simply want to boot the game and play. Who wants to work this hard to have fun?"

Sorry, but once again I have to disagree. I have an old P4 3.2 ghz, 1gb RAM (crappy PC2700) and a 7800 GS (was originally running the game with a Radeon 9800 XT)

I have never once had a crash. I can run the game at 30+ FPS at 1280x1024, High settings on everything but shadows and water reflections. The camera isn't a problem for me, I never have difficulty positioning it where I want it. The AI isn't great, but it isn't bad either, I have never had it take away from my experience, and the interface is beautiful. Everything I need is either a rightclick or one keystroke away.

I don't understand the bad performance people have on systems way better then mine.

And yet, the issues are real, regardless of how well it happens to perform on your rig. I've got an AMD 4800 w/ 2 gigs of RAM and an ATI XT1900 and while it runs acceptably, it still chugs far too much for the system I've got.

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Patriotism means being loyal to your country all the time and to its government when it deserves it - Mark Twain

Actually he doesn't. A 6/10 on their scoring scale means an above average game.

On their scale methinks LE would give it a 2 or a 3.

Youthinks?

Read the first sentence of Mr. Green's review:

Quote

Neverwinter Nights 2 is about two patches away from being a good game.

That's how I feel about it. Except I'd say two "major" patches. If you count hotfixes and module fixes as patches, and not just engine fixes like the game so desperately needs, I expect four or five patches til the game is playable by my standards.

Playable means:

-It performs like it should on my system. That means a minimum of a constant 30 FPS with, say, 90% of the features enabled. Turning it down to NWN1-quality and getting 20 FPS is not fucking acceptable.-The AI is completely, utterly overhauled. I don't give two shits if you think it works fine, or that it's "roleplaying" that the fuckwit dwarf has to knockdown everything he comes across, or the mage burns all her spells immediately, or that the druid tries to ghetto melee everything. The AI is B-R-O-K-E-N. And if you say otherwise, no sry you are wrong, sit down.-There's not some obnoxious half-second lag for everything I want to do, from moving the camera to attacking an opponent to opening a box. When I click, I want the game to respond IMMEDIATELY. Again, this is just shoddy-ass programming.

Fix that shit and the game's "playable," and then deserves to be judged based on its actual content.

1Up is giant cockup right now and they can't really agree internally on what their policies are. But, supposedly, 5 in their system is average, so a 6 is therefore above average. However I agree that doesn't necessarily match the review in this case which just goes to show how abysmal 1Up's editorial focus is.

Nothing pisses me off more than poor programming, so I feel LE's pain.

Like I said in another thread, there has been a rash of games that run like shit on great hardware that have come out lately - and NONE of them look significantly better than current shit that runs great. Railroads, while performance has improved with the last patch - was completely unacceptable on release for how it looked (10 minutes to lay some track later in a game due to lag). Anno 1701 looks 10 times better than railroads, has just as much shit going on - and runs 100 times smoother.

Thats just shoddy bullshit coding, and laziness. Speaking from someone that HAS worked at developers/publishers, tweaking games to run good on all denominations of systems does take time, it takes work, and it takes good coders. Apparently some developers have none of those factors, or don't care to implement them.

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All truth goes through three stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer

One comment I have with respect to the performance 'issues' some people are having, is my understanding of the NWN 2 engine is that it has a LOT of scripts running in the background and is far more CPU intensive than a lot of other games (compared to, say Oblivion). This unfortunately puts a heavier load for an equivalent graphical performance. I'm not saying that's right, but that's what I've heard on the 'grapevine'.

In other words, I'm not convinced it is poor programming. I'm not convinced it isn't either, but then I'm content with both the way the game looks and runs so it isn't a big deal to me regardless.

I have a fairly high end dual core system, so the game runs fine for me with all the bells and whistles turned on.

Not to be contrary but 'fine' is subjective. What res are you running at and what are your FPS? Because unless you have something like a 4Ghz C2D and maybe quad SLI, you arent getting 30+ FPS with full shadows, water, etc. at high res. It just isnt possible. And for me, a constant 30+ FPS would be what I call fine.

FWIW I have a 3Ghz C2D E6600 2gig RAM and an X1900XT. At 1680x1050 I still drop below 30 occasionally with Shadows off and water reflect/refract off. Turning on both of those options (shadows especially, on full) drops FPS to below 10 in some scenes, its brutal.

I think you just proved that you are a graphics whore. Seriously, who gives a damn about FPS in a third person RPG, especially one that uses a rules system that is built on turn-based combat? You turn down your resolution to 1280x1024 (which is the highest resolution most computer gamers can support, btw) and all your problems would go away. But no, your "kick-ass" system better be able to run everything at super-max res or it's the software's fault.

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Roger: And you should know, I have no genitals.Syndey: That's alright. I have both.

I have a fairly high end dual core system, so the game runs fine for me with all the bells and whistles turned on.

Not to be contrary but 'fine' is subjective. What res are you running at and what are your FPS? Because unless you have something like a 4Ghz C2D and maybe quad SLI, you arent getting 30+ FPS with full shadows, water, etc. at high res. It just isnt possible. And for me, a constant 30+ FPS would be what I call fine.

FWIW I have a 3Ghz C2D E6600 2gig RAM and an X1900XT. At 1680x1050 I still drop below 30 occasionally with Shadows off and water reflect/refract off. Turning on both of those options (shadows especially, on full) drops FPS to below 10 in some scenes, its brutal.

I think you just proved that you are a graphics whore. Seriously, who gives a damn about FPS in a third person RPG, especially one that uses a rules system that is built on turn-based combat? You turn down your resolution to 1280x1024 (which is the highest resolution most computer gamers can support, btw) and all your problems would go away. But no, your "kick-ass" system better be able to run everything at super-max res or it's the software's fault.

Again, this goes back to the opinion of what is acceptable. The graphics in NWN2 are fine for me, but they're not eye-popping or jaw-dropping. If they were much worse, I'd be sorely disappointed. But while they're fine for me, they may suck for someone else.

I have a fairly high end dual core system, so the game runs fine for me with all the bells and whistles turned on.

Not to be contrary but 'fine' is subjective. What res are you running at and what are your FPS? Because unless you have something like a 4Ghz C2D and maybe quad SLI, you arent getting 30+ FPS with full shadows, water, etc. at high res. It just isnt possible. And for me, a constant 30+ FPS would be what I call fine.

FWIW I have a 3Ghz C2D E6600 2gig RAM and an X1900XT. At 1680x1050 I still drop below 30 occasionally with Shadows off and water reflect/refract off. Turning on both of those options (shadows especially, on full) drops FPS to below 10 in some scenes, its brutal.

I think you just proved that you are a graphics whore. Seriously, who gives a damn about FPS in a third person RPG, especially one that uses a rules system that is built on turn-based combat? You turn down your resolution to 1280x1024 (which is the highest resolution most computer gamers can support, btw) and all your problems would go away. But no, your "kick-ass" system better be able to run everything at super-max res or it's the software's fault.

lol whatever man, your post is ridiculous. Who cares about FPS? Everyone does to some extent. As for 1280x1024 being "...the highest resolution most computer gamers can support". Thats a mind numbing statement. The engine is a dog, its less efficient than Oblivion.

I have a fairly high end dual core system, so the game runs fine for me with all the bells and whistles turned on.

Not to be contrary but 'fine' is subjective. What res are you running at and what are your FPS? Because unless you have something like a 4Ghz C2D and maybe quad SLI, you arent getting 30+ FPS with full shadows, water, etc. at high res. It just isnt possible. And for me, a constant 30+ FPS would be what I call fine.

FWIW I have a 3Ghz C2D E6600 2gig RAM and an X1900XT. At 1680x1050 I still drop below 30 occasionally with Shadows off and water reflect/refract off. Turning on both of those options (shadows especially, on full) drops FPS to below 10 in some scenes, its brutal.

I think you just proved that you are a graphics whore. Seriously, who gives a damn about FPS in a third person RPG, especially one that uses a rules system that is built on turn-based combat? You turn down your resolution to 1280x1024 (which is the highest resolution most computer gamers can support, btw) and all your problems would go away. But no, your "kick-ass" system better be able to run everything at super-max res or it's the software's fault.

lol whatever man, your post is ridiculous. Who cares about FPS? Everyone does to some extent. As for 1280x1024 being "...the highest resolution most computer gamers can support". Thats a mind numbing statement. The engine is a dog, its less efficient than Oblivion.

I didn't pull that statement out of my ass. According to Steam's hardware survey (most of whom are FPS fans) just under 95% of users (over 700,000 polled) are running 1280x1024 or less. In fact, almost 48% are running 1024x768. And that's an FPS fan skewed survey. Most reasonably priced LCD monitors don't support higher resolutions.

My point is that NWN2 was probably designed to produce it's best graphical results at resolutions that are most common, i.e. 1280x1024 or less. It may very well be a dog at higher resolutions but catering to the 5% of users who are even going to care about that is probably not the best decision Obsidian's programmers could have made.

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Roger: And you should know, I have no genitals.Syndey: That's alright. I have both.

Figure 1280x1024 is a huge number of people. Almost all 17" and 19" monitors are this resolution, and most people I know - and myself personally, are running non-widescreen monitors. The problem I have with Widescreen is that to support it, you have to keep your upgrades much higher and I don't want to make that price commitment, therefore I stick with 1280x1024.

Performance isn't very subjective, moreso I think it is just what people tolerate. Some people aren't bugged by bad or fairly sloggy performance, others are annoyed to no end by it. I count myself in the later, I find performance issues in games to be completely unacceptable and a sign of shitty coding.

*Not saying anything either way about NWN2, I don't own it - yet - awaiting patches and perhaps a demo.

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All truth goes through three stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer

I must be lucky, it's running fine on my PC. A friend got it before I did, and it's running really slow on his machine. I looked into the issue a bit for him, but there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to the problems.

Hmm... I forgot to ask him if he installed XFire. They identified an issue with NWN2 being slowed down by something inside of XFire (not sure if it needed to be uninstalled, or just turned off when playing). Kind of ironic, since the install asks to also install XFire.

Don't forget that the power of NWN 1 is what they hope will be the power of NWN 2 - modules and add-ons will allow the developers to milk many years out of this game. With that in mind, I think that designing it for 1024 x 768 is as shortsighted as designing Diablo 2 for 640 x 480... Better performance should not be a 'feature' to purchase with an upgrade. I look at games like Medieval 2, Titan Quest, Oblivion, Anno 1701, and any of a host of other games, several of them years old, and performance should not be an issue with NWN 2. What it is doing graphically is not much more special than a lot of new games and several older games, and many of those seem to run better under the same hardware circumstances.

I haven't seen the thread starter chime in since the first day. My guess, after the "OMFGORZORZ I got it first, and the graphics look great!" thing wore off, he stopped playing the game after an hour, and moved on the next shiney new thing.

Curious to see if his glowing review held up past the initial few minutes.

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All truth goes through three stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer

I am getting ready to start playing with three other people. We mapped out our builds and what would make a good team and what we like to play.I think this will help make the game more enjoyable as now you only need to manage your char versus your char and either shoddy AI teamates or micro-managing puppet mode

I really think this is what they intended.

I'll try and update how the game is different when going through with this format.

Now that sounds like a fun idea. Could very well work, too, as once you get to the Tavern (a few hours in), you can leave most of your party behind at all times. Yeah, you'd lose out on the constant chatter between teammates, but you'll have a more entertaining game (as you don't have to worry about the AI) because of it.

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"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

I am getting ready to start playing with three other people. We mapped out our builds and what would make a good team and what we like to play.I think this will help make the game more enjoyable as now you only need to manage your char versus your char and either shoddy AI teamates or micro-managing puppet mode

I really think this is what they intended.

I'll try and update how the game is different when going through with this format.

Can you critique how much effort goes into setting up the multiplayer and making the connection? Especially if it includes shutting off firewalls or opening ports on routers and whatnot.