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Re: What movie did you last watch?

or the scene where Joker and Dent are in the hospital

If you're talking about where Dent flips that seemed much too quick and easy. I always had a little suspension of disbelief problem with that scene. That was pretty quick I thought for Dent to turn so easily at the Joker's suggestions. Not that I didn't see it happening, just needed to be more difficult or another puzzle piece thrown in I thought.

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: What movie did you last watch?

Rises does have those themes. It also slams it down your throat, whether it's Bane deciding to "give the city back to the people" or Kyle's "You'll all wonder how you could live so fat and leave so little for the rest of us".

I'll take TDK themes any day of the week and also take the dialogue of TDK any day of the week. I just believe the one on one scenes in Rises pale to the one on one scenes in TDK. Those scenes give TDK more depth as a movie. Rises is at it's best when something action-y is going on. Whereas the best scenes in TDK are when the movie slows down and let's the characters speak.

I'll just speak frankly here, but the writing of Gordon's speech that Bane reads is utter ****. It doesn't sound anything like Gordon's character and it was the point where I really felt like Nolan was just pushing through the dialogue scenes in Rises to get to the next OH **** moment. TDK had those OH **** moments to, but the dialogue on the way there didn't feel so forced.

I believe you're confused as to what depth of the film means. I'm a Bat forecaster and trust me.Tdkr wins.

Re: What movie did you last watch?

Spoiler:

As others have mentioned, how did Bruce get back in to Gotham so easily (after escaping the pit)? He simply emerged from the shadows and strolled up to Selina. I know he's the damned Batman, but geeze, Bane and his cohorts had the place on lockdown. Even my wife questioned that.

Re: What movie did you last watch?

If you're talking about where Dent flips that seemed much too quick and easy. I always had a little suspension of disbelief problem with that scene. That was pretty quick I thought for Dent to turn so easily at the Joker's suggestions. Not that I didn't see it happening, just needed to be more difficult or another puzzle piece thrown in I thought.

It's a leap, but considering his massive frustration, extreme pain (both physical and emotional/psychological from the experience and losing Rachel at the same time; and all because of being betrayed by corrupt police officers, and ones he warned Jim Gordon about earlier, no less), he DID suffer a MASSIVE amount of darkness and disappointment in a condensed period of time. It wasn't too much of a reach for him to be driven mad by it. Or at least to the extent that he just gave up and embraced a sort of dark, nihilistic view to life. His idealism and hope had been stomped by an enormous boot and set on fire. Still somewhat of a leap, but not a huge one IMO.

Personally, my complaint was that they went cartoonish with the damage to his face. I'd have preferred realistic, severe burns instead. Fits more with the mold of these movies, would have been harder to look at, and wouldn't have seemed kind of silly/odd.

Re: What movie did you last watch?

I believe you're confused as to what depth of the film means. I'm a Bat forecaster and trust me.Tdkr wins.

I love the joker. But he doesn't have much depth.

Define depth.

I strongly disagree with the idea that the Joker doesn't have depth. At least as I understand the word. He's clearly had a severely traumatic past, he's utterly psychopathic and twisted, he's an enormous hypocrite (complaining about schemers when he's one of the best schemers ever), a constant liar, he changes his mind on what he wants to do mid-stream, yet always seems emotionally sincere with whatever he's up to at the moment, he's a blend of grim blackness and humor/levity, he's intelligent and somewhat philosophical, a flair for the dramatic, imaginative, he seems to want something and nothing at different moments, etc.

Bane, on other hand, is mostly just plain evil/cruel

Spoiler:

with a soft spot for baby girls, apparently

, from his own very traumatic upbringing. Beyond that, obviously he's very strong and skilled, very smart and very articulate with a lot of ambition, which is cool. I have nothing against Bane, and I thought he had a good presence in this film. I liked him. I think Nolan and Hardy did a very good job of elevating the character beyond his past in the movies/books, but he's not nearly as interesting or deep as the Joker to me.

Re: What movie did you last watch?

As others have mentioned, how did Bruce get back in to Gotham so easily (after escaping the pit)? He simply emerged from the shadows and strolled up to Selina. I know he's the damned Batman, but geeze, Bane and his cohorts had the place on lockdown. Even my wife questioned that.

Spoiler:

My thing is: How did he get from whatever city/country that pit is in, back to the US? He had no money or communication devices. But once he got back, he IS a trained ninja after all, so I can buy him sneaking his way back in somehow. It's getting to that point that leaves me wondering.

Re: What movie did you last watch?

I thought he couldn't talk when he was juiced up like in Batman&Robin that I watched as a kid believe it came out in the late 90s. I just think they did his character really bad and his voice is so annoying could barley understand the guy. Wish they would of stayed true to the guy. Wish they would of done a Joker or someone like that with Baine.

For the record, Batman and Robin (which by the way, NEVER HAPPENED. It's all a figment of our imaginations.) is a TERRIBLE barometer for Bane (TAS handled him MUCH better). Scratch that, it wasn't terrible, it was TURRIBLE. I think Nolan wasn't all that far off from the comic book version of Bane. Read the Knightfall arc (or even the novelized version) when you get a chance, and you'll understand why he can be a villain to center a film around.

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

Re: What movie did you last watch?

For the record, Batman and Robin (which by the way, NEVER HAPPENED. It's all a figment of our imaginations.) is a TERRIBLE barometer for Bane (TAS handled him MUCH better). Scratch that, it wasn't terrible, it was TURRIBLE. I think Nolan wasn't all that far off from the comic book version of Bane. Read the Knightfall arc (or even the novelized version) when you get a chance, and you'll understand why he can be a villain to center a film around.

I watched Batman & Robin last night just to remind myself how bad things were at one point for Batman. It was every bit as horrendous as I remember. And George Clooney is a fantastic actor, one of the best on Earth, but he was an awful Batman. Plain awful. Even Kilmer was better, and I hated Kilmer.

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Re: What movie did you last watch?

You didn't watch Batman and Robin last night, that was you sleeping. Batman and Robin NEVER HAPPENED. EVER.

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

The Following User Says Thank You to cdash For This Useful Post:

Re: What movie did you last watch?

One thing I do want to say about TDKR is that Gordon looked and sounded horrible. His leftover accent from Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy (which he got a voice coach for so he could relearn his original accent) showed way too much here, and his hair was just weird looking. They obviously filmed the beginning part ("I believed in Harvey Dent") during TDK and kept the footage for this movie. But he was almost unrecognizable in this, to me.

Also, the sound mixing on Bane's voice was really bad. It overlapped every other sound in the movie, even during the plane heist. It was a big improvement over the first mix on the prologue though.

Re: What movie did you last watch?

I agree with all of that, but I think it was better than Batman Forever. At least B&R was campy and schlocky on purpose.

I think they both were. I got a very similar vibe from both of them, and they are both products of that Director Who Shall Not Be Named.

Here's an odd one: I can't watch Batman Returns anymore. It grosses me out. The Penguin is legitimately disgusting. I had it on last night and I ordered pizza and had to turn it off because his nasty *** black gums and raw fish meals were too much for me. It's not a bad movie, but The Penguin is a nasty dude. And how the **** does an army of penguins survive in the sewers of Gotham? I realize punching plot holes in movies such as this is an exercise in futility, but that always made me laugh.

Re: What movie did you last watch?

I too saw TDKR and its criticism of the Occupy Movement disgusted me. Nolan and Goyer compared peaceful activists who are the embodiment of equality and democracy as envious thugs easily manipulated by autocrats.

Basically we got to see the Tea party's view of the Occupy Movement on the big screen. For shame.

Re: What movie did you last watch?

Batman 89 and Batman Returns were awesome movies(although Nicholson's Joker hasn't aged well at all IMO, next to Ledger's Joker, Nicholson looks like a campy Cesar Romero tribute ). After Burton left though..... *shudder*

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

Re: What movie did you last watch?

I strongly disagree with the idea that the Joker doesn't have depth. At least as I understand the word. He's clearly had a severely traumatic past, he's utterly psychopathic and twisted, he's an enormous hypocrite (complaining about schemers when he's one of the best schemers ever), a constant liar, he changes his mind on what he wants to do mid-stream, yet always seems emotionally sincere with whatever he's up to at the moment, he's a blend of grim blackness and humor/levity, he's intelligent and somewhat philosophical, a flair for the dramatic, imaginative, he seems to want something and nothing at different moments, etc.

Bane, on other hand, is mostly just plain evil/cruel

Spoiler:

with a soft spot for baby girls, apparently

, from his own very traumatic upbringing. Beyond that, obviously he's very strong and skilled, very smart and very articulate with a lot of ambit
ion, which is cool. I have nothing against Bane, and I thought he had a good presence in this film. I liked him. I think Nolan and Hardy did a very good job of elevating the character beyond his past in the movies/books, but he's not nearly as interesting or deep as the Joker to me.

I never said that he didn't have depth. I clearly stated that he didn't have much.

But to say two had more than trifle even Begins , is ridiculous. Ill hey back on later on a computer. My phone is wearing me out.

Re: What movie did you last watch?

Batman 89 and Batman Returns were awesome movies(although Nicholson's Joker hasn't aged well at all IMO, next to Ledger's Joker, Nicholson looks like a campy Cesar Romero tribute ). After Burton left though..... *shudder*

At some point, we could just make a Batman thread, but for now I will keep it in here.

I totally agree about Nicholson's Joker--it's aged poorly. Perhaps it wouldn't be as bad if Ledger's Joker wasn't one of the top 2 or 3 villains in movie history, but it does have a campy feel to it.

I'm not a Tim Burton fan. At all. But I do enjoy his take on Batman. I actually think Keaton was a really good Batman, but a poor Bruce Wayne. He seemed too...nerdy for a billionaire playboy. Kilmer was too serious as Wayne. Clooney was a catastrophe, and Bale nailed it.

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Re: What movie did you last watch?

You all do realize that you’re arguing over depth of DC comics villains here right?

The Marvelite in me is both amused and saddened all at the same time.

That is/was the main difference between Marvel & DC back in the day, DC's villains had little to no depth. Since the late 80's early 90's all comic companies are pretty much the same but that used to be the point.

DC villains were evil/bad whatever.

Marvels villains were often complicated and did evil/bad things. Now mind you not all Marvel villains had this depth but that was the main thing, depending on the actions they took certain characters could just as easily have been heroes as villains and some often blurred that line.

Now as to the movies versions of what you guys are talking about, again it's just one man's opinion here, I think Bane had more depth in these movies that the Joker did. The Joker may or may not have had a troubled past, nobody really knows, but at the end of the day he is a homicidal maniac bent on anarchy. Schemeing is just an ends to a means for him.

Bane on the other hand seems to have the depth of being a self proclaimed liberator who really is just a person in love.

I guess I just find more depth in that, but hey at the end of the day its just a movie and its all just opinions.

Well, except the part about DC villains.

Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

Re: What movie did you last watch?

I too saw TDKR and its criticism of the Occupy Movement disgusted me. Nolan and Goyer compared peaceful activists who are the embodiment of equality and democracy as envious thugs easily manipulated by autocrats.

Basically we got to see the Tea party's view of the Occupy Movement on the big screen. For shame.

Hmmmmm...

The irony here is that I can bet money with confidence that not a single person who would even dare touch a tea party point of view had anything to do with the making of this film.

So it's really kind of odd that this did come out that way.

Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

Re: What movie did you last watch?

Rises does have those themes. It also slams it down your throat, whether it's Bane deciding to "give the city back to the people" or Kyle's "You'll all wonder how you could live so fat and leave so little for the rest of us".

There's a differentiation between what a character says and does and what a movie says and does. I think the movie, very similarly to the previous two, simply sets the table for these themes and issues. Very little throat pounding. This movie just plain had more going on in it and gave us a bigger buffet to choose from.

I'll just speak frankly here, but the writing of Gordon's speech that Bane reads is utter ****. It doesn't sound anything like Gordon's character and it was the point where I really felt like Nolan was just pushing through the dialogue scenes in Rises to get to the next OH **** moment. TDK had those OH **** moments to, but the dialogue on the way there didn't feel so forced.

Not defending it, because its reading was odd, but this scene looked heavily edited, like not all of the pages had the same number of words on them. It came off as paraphrasing to me rather than a word-for-word recite.

Re: What movie did you last watch?

I too saw TDKR and its criticism of the Occupy Movement disgusted me. Nolan and Goyer compared peaceful activists who are the embodiment of equality and democracy as envious thugs easily manipulated by autocrats.

Basically we got to see the Tea party's view of the Occupy Movement on the big screen. For shame.

I'm pretty sure Nolan has spoken about being fairly liberal, as far as American politics are concerned... I do agree that from a bird's eye view, the entire Dark Knight Trilogy seems to have very conservative views.

Re: What movie did you last watch?

Spoiler:

I keep seeing people talk about Bane being a liberator and all that stuff. Did you all miss where he's completely ************ them because he's evil and finds it fun to give Gotham false hope? He was never trying to be a freedom fighter or liberator. The plan, from day one, was Gotham's destruction. He wanted to give them false hope first to essentially torture them all (and Bruce, having to watch it) before finally killing them. Like pulling the wings off of a bug before finally stomping on it. Bane was just being cruel, and it bit him in the *** in the end.

Re: What movie did you last watch?

It's a leap, but considering his massive frustration, extreme pain (both physical and emotional/psychological from the experience and losing Rachel at the same time; and all because of being betrayed by corrupt police officers, and ones he warned Jim Gordon about earlier, no less), he DID suffer a MASSIVE amount of darkness and disappointment in a condensed period of time. It wasn't too much of a reach for him to be driven mad by it. Or at least to the extent that he just gave up and embraced a sort of dark, nihilistic view to life. His idealism and hope had been stomped by an enormous boot and set on fire. Still somewhat of a leap, but not a huge one IMO.

Personally, my complaint was that they went cartoonish with the damage to his face. I'd have preferred realistic, severe burns instead. Fits more with the mold of these movies, would have been harder to look at, and wouldn't have seemed kind of silly/odd.

100% agree...

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: What movie did you last watch?

I keep seeing people talk about Bane being a liberator and all that stuff. Did you all miss where he's completely ************ them because he's evil and finds it fun to give Gotham false hope? He was never trying to be a freedom fighter or liberator. The plan, from day one, was Gotham's destruction. He wanted to give them false hope first to essentially torture them all (and Bruce, having to watch it) before finally killing them. Like pulling the wings off of a bug before finally stomping on it. Bane was just being cruel, and it bit him in the *** in the end.

It didn't get that at the time but it settled in later that was the point of letting things play out the way they did.

Spoiler:

I'm surprised there is so much debate over whether Bruce is really dead or not and whether Alfred saw Bruce in his mind or that was an actual chance sighting at the end. I watched the movie and the explosion and thought "Damn, they really did kill him". But then the movie didn't end... and there was the mention of the functional autopilot... and then Alfred's scene. So those two things alone seemed to be confirmation Wayne was still alive. Otherwise, why have Bruce turn toward the camera to face Alfred so you can clearly see it's Bruce? Earlier in Alfred's imagination when the guy turned to face him he could see it WASN'T Bruce. So if you want to be ambiguous about Bruce's death, don't let us or Alfred see the face before fading to black.

I suppose you could reinterpret things but I think that it's just people feeling his death would've been more dramatic and put some finality on that part of things and so are seeing what they want to see. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me to know that originally Wayne DID die and some test audience or pre screening for execs led to the idea maybe he shouldn't really die.... But I could be wrong...

If it was up to me, he would've died. It is a sadder and more dramatic ending. And it's a little more unexpected.

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."