As with others who have posted here I also have seasoned my bore with 1000+ Bore Butter and the cleaning has gotten alot easier. And the between shot wipes have become less needed. But thats with Goex BP. I have found "seasoning" to be alot harder to accomplish with Pyrodex and 777. Dont know why.

_________________The human mind is the weapon, the gun is just one of its tools.

It's all about fun, whichever you choose, and more importantly for those of us who hunt, it's all about putting the animal down as quickly and humanely as possible, right?

Very well said there! I agree with you on the statement on "primitive" arms but my vision pretty much requires some optics for hunting for the very reason you state. I don't mind blowing a shot on paper or steel due to fuzzy sights but will not take that chance on game. I hunted some with my repro 1853 Enfield but these days I use an Encore with a low powered scope. I even had a 1x scope on it for a while but it found a new home elsewhere so a 1.5 - 4.5X replaced it. My only kill with it (so far!) was at 12 yards anyway.

_________________Mike

"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle

Hey Mike, I know just what you mean by fuzzy iron sights!!! I'm 61 and my eyes just cannot rapidly switch focus from target to front sight to rear sight and back and forth. I believe this is the primary reason some of the "big time" muzzleloader folks are pressing the various state governments over what sort of amounts to "age discrimination" to try to get them to allow scopes on muzzleloaders during the muzzleloader seasons. I believe all by about 14 now allow it. Of course my Colorado still does not, but then they don't allow sabots, conicals longer than twice the diameter or pelletized powder either.

When I scoped my new T/C Triumph I ended up getting the camo Nikon 3-9 X40 with BDC. I didn't really care about the BDC, but that's what the one on Ebay had, because I have no interest in trying to take an animal at 200-250 yards with a muzzleloader. Oh sure, the gun, scope, bullet combo is perfectly capable of it, but the "nut behind the butt" probably isn't.

In all my 50+ years of hunting I have never lost a wounded big game animal and I will continue to do everything I can to make sure I never do. I have always been and will always be very selective when it comes to the distance of the shot and the position of the animal in relation to me and any obstacles in between. That may limit my shots and game getting, but I've never had to lay awake nights feeling bad about leaving a cripple in the field to die a slow, perhaps agonizing death.

Im 42 and have several health problems that have, over time, affected my eye's. But there are rifles that I will NEVER put optics on. My Side lock smoke poles are just a few of them. My lever guns are next.

_________________The human mind is the weapon, the gun is just one of its tools.

i could'nt really tell you if the article about newer steels not needing seasoning is right or not ,but from what i can remember from shop classes all steel have pores in some form. so newer steels might not need it as much or not at all it sure caint hurt.

Oh yeah, I agree with you Crackshot. I wouldn't ever think of mounting a scope on my Hawken or for that matter fiber optics or shooting sabots in it. That would be total sacriliege to me!! That's why I bought the in-line.

I agree with you, too, derwood, bore butter certainly can't hurt anything and I believe it's also supposed to prevent rust and corrosion, too, so I guess it's a good thing--whether or not it, in fact, seasons the barrel or not.

I am shooting .451 cal barnes spitfire tmz sabot in a cva Kodiak 209 pro;
I have no problems at all getting the sabot down the barrel;It is firm, as it should be, but goes in just fine; There are several brand and types of "bore butter" out there to select from; Some are petroleum based, which you should not use; I use Thompson Center T17 1000 Plus; All natural ingredients, and works very well for me; I am shooting 1/2 in. groups at 50 yds; (bullet holes overlap);

mw0248 I'm using the exact same bullet, only in a new Traditions. I too am using the Thompson Center T17 1000 Plus to get the sabot down the barrel without breaking something. If I'm at the range, I use a dry swab on both sides to clear the '1,000' from the barrel before I shot.

I'm using 120 grains of Blackhorn powder with a Federal 209 primer and got my first deer with it last Sunday. Most people that use the Blackhorn powder don't clean between shots, but my barrel is just tight enogh that I clean it between each shot. But after I shot my deer, I reloaded without cleaning. It was hard (wind chill below zero) but it did seat OK. When I got home, I emptied it out and cleaned it and will put the bullet down a clean barrel. I don't think it would affect the accuracy that much, but my scope is set to a cold barrel with no lube.

parkerbill... I see your post is old but I'll tell you my experience with the Blackhorn powder. I had a lot of problems right off the bat with mis-fires and hang fires. Someone on this site told me to use Federal primers and the problem is gone.

I was using 777, but with this winter's below zero temperatures, any wet patch freezes to the inside of the barrel before it gets to the bottom. I did switch to a 209 primer made for 777 powder and the crud ring was much less.

I have a new barrel and can't shoot twice yet, even with the Blackhorn powder and not cleaning, without risking breaking my rod in half getting the bullet / sabot down the tube. Some I talk to say they rarely clean between shots with Blackhorn, but since I clean after each shot no matter what powder I use, there isn't a lot of difference in the amount of gooo with either powder when cleaning. There is a huge difference in the costs between 777 and Blackhorn. Blackhorn over here in western Iowa goes for $32.00 for 10 ounces, and 777 goes for $22.00 a pound.

I use the Blackhorn to do the final set-up of my scope and for actual hunting. If I'm going to shot a lot at the range, I bring a lot of patches and use 777. I don't see alot of difference between powders, but then I don't have a chronograph either.

I basiclly have the same results with 777 powder. But I tried the Blackhorn powder first when i got my new barrel. It's pricy, so I went back to 777. There is no comparison between 777 and Blackhorn. I'm staying with Blackhorn. The damage that the 777 does, even with faithful cleaning is something else. I recently polished my barrel and it made a big difference. Just don't look through a recently polished barrel at a bright light like I did.

I have a Traditions Pursuit rifle with a 28 inch barrel and a 1 in 28 twist. I've also had problems with loading. For practice I use a cheaper 300 or 250 grain bullet and the HPH-24 sabots. For hunting I use Barnes 294 grain bullets, which are pretty pricey but offer the best accuracy and don't explode when they hit a deer. I always clean between each shot, load the powder, use 1000 sparingly on a patch to just above the powder, load the bullet with a starter, then run a dry patch down to the bullet to get rid of the 1000. If I don't use a little 1000 it still loads, but much harder. In my testing the bullets in MY RIFLE go higher and are more accurate with the 1000. BUT, if I use too much 1000, then the bullet will drop 3 or more inches at 100 yards.

The reason I use the 294 grain bullet is apparent if you put a 250 grain bullet, a 300 grain bullet, and a Barnes 294 grain bullet together. The longer the bullet the truer it will fly in my book. I just work on the powder load to get the best accuracy. Just because you can get a bullet to go faster doesn't mean it will be more accurate. You can't kill what you don't hit.

But this is all for 100 yards out to 200 or maybe 225. If your shot is for 50 to 75 yards I'd load what loads easiest (EZ-Load sabots) and the bullet does the most damage when it hits without coming apart and ruining a lot of meat needlessly.

I've never had a shot at a stationary deer. Find out how fast your bullet is, then find out how far to lead a running deer. And they are FAST! A deer running just moderately fast needs to be led by 7 or 8 feet at 100 yards with the loads I shoot. Being able to decide in an instant how fast the deer is moving and what the range is, is VERY IMPORTANT for a clean kill.

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