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Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

witnessing such a strength coming from the 10tails,it's funny how choji dare to fight it in vol.57, I hope he will try it again,but this time he has to be overwhelmed! I'm waiting for sai's power-up,though,as he gave a hard time both to Sasori and to Deidara.

Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

Originally Posted by Thabor

But that is exactly the point, if they portray Naruto as constantly cussing when he doesn't then it isn't the same personality at all. That is one of the reasons why I can't stand to watch the Naruto anime in english. The interpretation just differs to much from the original.

They don't portray him as cursing. The one saying nonsense is Obito, and Mangastream translation is the exact think Naruto should say. Naruto saying "curse or not..." mean he doesn't care about what Obito means. This is why Managstream version is better. Usually, Mangastream make more sense to me. Take for example the last chapter. Mangapanda did a flat translation, and they end up saying that Kurama converted his own chakra. This contradict with all the other text before and after the statement.

Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

Originally Posted by so6pww

They don't portray him as cursing. The one saying nonsense is Obito, and Mangastream translation is the exact think Naruto should say. Naruto saying "curse or not..." mean he doesn't care about what Obito means. This is why Managstream version is better. Usually, Mangastream make more sense to me. Take for example the last chapter. Mangapanda did a flat translation, and they end up saying that Kurama converted his own chakra. This contradict with all the other text before and after the statement.

IT makes more sense to you because you like the way the translate lately and add more drama and action with their words but mangapanda isn't the best but lately is being more accurate than mangastream..
The only reason you get pissed off is because you want kurama and naruto being stronger than the juubi's and we provided you with evidences than naruto and kurama aren't stronger than juubi's at least not yet until naruto show another power up.

Originally Posted by so6pww

Mangastream translation is the exact think Naruto should say. Naruto saying "curse or not..." mean he doesn't care about what Obito means. This is why Managstream version is better

just because you think this is what naruto should say that doesn't mean that this translation is right because according to you, it sounds like something than naruto might say..

Last edited by EMS; January 22, 2013 at 01:23 PM.

living in the darkness and now with a new light, i will raise to a new beginning...

Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

Quote:

I really don't like the profanity, and that's a big reason why. It doesn't make scenes more 'intense' in this manga, it actually detracts from it and even pulls the characters out of their element. It's almost as if it's crammed in sometimes just for the sake of cramming it in, forcing it because someone thinks it makes the scene 'more cool'.

This. I don't care if it is in fiction, media, or real life speech... 99.9999999999999% of all profanity is uttered by a stupid person who lacks the vocabulary to properly express themselves - and so they fall back on swear words in an effort to appear more mature than they really are. People with real intelligence do not require profanity for any reason. Whenever I see or hear profanity, I evaluate the person using it as having failed to communicate.

Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

I'm sure I'm not the first to say this, but I think Sasuke wants Orochimaru to edo tensei the uchiha clan. we know that danzo had connections to orochimaru, and maybe he got their dna as well.
would make sense, since sasuke wants to know the truth or something.
I'm just thinking with my keyboard...

Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

Originally Posted by Invader

This. I don't care if it is in fiction, media, or real life speech... 99.9999999999999% of all profanity is uttered by a stupid person who lacks the vocabulary to properly express themselves - and so they fall back on swear words in an effort to appear more mature than they really are. People with real intelligence do not require profanity for any reason. Whenever I see or hear profanity, I evaluate the person using it as having failed to communicate.

Whenever I see or hear people who dismiss the ideas of others simply due to their word choice, I evaluate the person as a pseudo-intellectual elitist dripping with condescension, unable to relate to others.

Something no one has mentioned is that when you translate a work across languages, you have to localize it to your audience, and I think that while Mangastream's translator is certainly taking some liberties, he or she is doing an excellent job overall.

Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

Originally Posted by lexx

Whenever I see or hear people who dismiss the ideas of others simply due to their word choice, I evaluate the person as a pseudo-intellectual elitist dripping with condescension, unable to relate to others.

Something no one has mentioned is that when you translate a work across languages, you have to localize it to your audience, and I think that while Mangastream's translator is certainly taking some liberties, he or she is doing an excellent job overall.

Really?, it is doing such a great work that is going over board and instead of translate more accurate , this translator is putting his own thoughts and giving drama and some action moments as using cursing words but you go to others websides and the translation might be little different but still the same direction..
Mangastream was my main sources but lately, he/she added more than what the need to translate..

living in the darkness and now with a new light, i will raise to a new beginning...

Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

Quote:

Whenever I see or hear people who dismiss the ideas of others simply due to their word choice...

When their word choice demonstrates a deliberate use of the vulgar - then yes the person's ideas and whatever they were trying to communicate deserves to be dismissed without further consideration. The deliberate use of profanity when there are many other options available to communicate the intent shows a primitive mind, a lack of ability to express oneself, or a perversity of thought. The person needs to either be educated so as to become less primitive, instructed as to the proper and respectable way to express themselves, or reprimanded for stooping to the use of the crude and the base.

All uses of profanity in print can be replaced with something else. Either random characters (#@$!) that denote profanity, or some other language that illustrates frustration, pain, anger, or whatever emotion is trying to come across.

Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

Originally Posted by Invader

The person needs to either be educated so as to become less primitive, instructed as to the proper and respectable way to express themselves, or reprimanded for stooping to the use of the crude and the base.

And what if they don't want to? Use force?
No, that's not how it works. Swearing is a matter of cultural (or subcultural, to be more precise) orientation. You may try to have ppl stop swearing, but old habits die hard and it's not like it'll hurt them, so they don't feel like stopping. Being insistent only makes the matter worse, since you're going to be ignored. At least that's my experience (East Slovakia... swearing, part of common speech).

The right way is: don't like it, don't listen to it. Similarly, if you're offended by swearing in the translation, don't read it - there are many other translations for Naruto, which you can use instead.

Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

Originally Posted by Invader

This. I don't care if it is in fiction, media, or real life speech... 99.9999999999999% of all profanity is uttered by a stupid person who lacks the vocabulary to properly express themselves - and so they fall back on swear words in an effort to appear more mature than they really are. People with real intelligence do not require profanity for any reason. Whenever I see or hear profanity, I evaluate the person using it as having failed to communicate.

That's bullshit actually. Most of us posters here don't use profanity because we think it's cool or it makes us sound mature. We use it because it's been ingrained in our vocabulary through people we've spent time with like relatives and friends, media like tv shows and movies, and other times even if we don't usually use profanity, emotions get high and it simply flies free. Or, like above, it could simply be because the person using the profanity KNOWS how inflammatory and "heavy" the word is, making it right for the situation. Think about it:

I could've called what you said "poppycock, malarkey, bull-hockey, gobbledigook, nonsense, conjecture, a presumption, or a ton of other things. But none of them would've carried the same stinging indemnification that "bullshit" carries. Everyone knows full well that when it comes to lanquage, profane words are reserved for when your emotions are heightened the most. I didn't want you to leave the conversation thinking "Oh wow, maybe I should think before typing". No, instead, I wanted you to walk away and think "AGH! I should definitely think before I TYPE!!!"

Don't get me wrong: it's hard not to have your opinion of someone determined by first impressions. How they talk, what they look like. But for you to claim that it's the norm that people who use profanity are dumb... either the majority of people you hang out with are idiots regardless of how they speak, or you simply feel the need to defend your lack of profanity usage. I don't like tons of profanity in my manga either, but only because it seems out of place for the characters in question. I wouldn't have a problem if Hidan, Kiba, or Suigetsu cursed like sailors, because their personalities fit it. As for those of us posting in the discussion threads, the fact that we're all adults here means we tend to expect posters to have thicker skin. Unless the words they say are specifically hurtful, calling everyone idiots IS flaming.

Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

Originally Posted by 0Xellos

And what if they don't want to? Use force?
No, that's not how it works. Swearing is a matter of cultural (or subcultural, to be more precise) orientation. You may try to have ppl stop swearing, but old habits die hard and it's not like it'll hurt them, so they don't feel like stopping. Being insistent only makes the matter worse, since you're going to be ignored. At least that's my experience (East Slovakia... swearing, part of common speech).

The right way is: don't like it, don't listen to it. Similarly, if you're offended by swearing in the translation, don't read it - there are many other translations for Naruto, which you can use instead.

Actually swearing CAN hurt you (in the general sense, not you specifically). If you go to a job interview and you start swearing, believe me, you are very likely to not get the job. When you meet the parents of the person you are dating, believe me, if you start swearing they are not going to have a good impression of you. There are many more examples of how swearing nilly willy just for the heck of it can hurt you or your interests. Moving on.

I am expecting this coming chapter to show what the last phase of the "strategy" is because I know it is not over after Ino and Shikamaru's jutsu, there's got to be more, there just has to LOL.

Maybe once they manage to deal some real damage to the 10 tails, Kishi will leave us with a cliff hanger and switch back to the Kages OR Sasuke. But that's just my prediction. I wish Sakura would do something aside from crying (or healing) all the time LOL, but I am resigned to never see that =) Tobi is acting like a child and I can't wait for him to get spanked. Madara is another story all together casue he is a tough cookie, especially now with unlimited chakra and immortal body.

Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

I use profanity quite frequently in my personal life, though I'm generally ascribe to the belief that a precision f-strike is more effective than carpet f-bombing.

I however believe that equating profanity with maturity is an extremely immature thing to do. Children swear all the time. I started learning to swear when I was in the fourth grade.

When we're talking about translation, adding profanity should be done with care because Japanese doesn't have a lot of actual profanity. Yo you need to take into account the words used and their context, the character's personality, as well as the material itself and its target audience.

Naruto's kind of a punk, and a trouble maker, and a prankster, but he's generally pretty innocent. He can be boastful and confident, but he's not foul-mouthed or vulgar or even particularily rude. Moreover, the general tone of the series is pretty light, and the characters are all pretty young. Plus, the manga is primarily aimed at a generally younger audience, mostly adolescents and teenagers. Taking all of that into account, I would keep his use of profanity pretty light, limited to things like crap, damn, ass, and hell.

If we look at another series, like One Piece, the general look and feel of the series is very light hearted. It's more of an adventure and a comedy. Luffy's a pirate, but he's also innocent and purehearted enough that he could ride Kintoun in Cross Epoch. I would generally avoid having him use profanity in this series altogether, apart from the rare poignant, dramatic moments. I'd translate his catchphrase (frequently translated as "I'm gonna kick your ass") more literally as, "I'm gonna clobber you!" (ぶっとばす is traditionally translated as something like "clobber" or "thrash").

However, if we're looking at a series like Blade of the Immortal, that's a seinen series aimed at adult audiences, dealing with adult themes. Hiroaki Samura also did something a bit unique with the dialogue in the series by having the various outlaws and renegade swordsmen talk like modern Japanese street punks and gangsters. Manji talks like an uncouth criminal. Criminal slang and profanity should be used pretty liberally with him. In Dark Horde's superb translation, he says things like "yeah, I whacked a few guys in my day" or "you fuckin' morons are about to get cut up." That's perfect, because he talks like that in the Japanese dialogue.

Adding profanity to Naruto's dialogue when there isn't even a hint of rudeness or vulgarity in the original dialogue is not staying true to character or the original author's intent. It's the translator imposing his own thoughts on the reader. That's not good translation, in my book.

Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

I could've called what you said "poppycock, malarkey, bull-hockey, gobbledigook, nonsense, conjecture, a presumption", or a ton of other things.

This made me laugh like crazy, because I imagined how funny would it be if we all talked like that on the forums. It would be just precious.

Poster A: Well, such-and-such and blah-de-blah, etc.Poster B: Oh, pish tosh and nonesuch. I have never heard such utter bunkum. Poster A: Indeed? Well, I thought your hypothesis regarding so-and-so was a stagecoach load of guff and hooey such as I have never before been subjected to.Poster C: Now, now, friends, let us keep our tempers. Gloves on, lads.Poster B: You are living in hope that your palavering twaddle will go unnoticed, Poster C!Poster A: Who is the hokum salesman now, Poster B? You are both peddling tommyrot!Poster B: Preposterous! Poster A, your balderdash is showing! Poster C: I've had enough of this cavalcade of horsefeathers. I think you shall forgive me if I do not wish you good day. Poster A: Well, somebody's nose is certainly in the air.

And then they all got banned for abusive language, but were eventually forgiven when they talked it out over sidecars and pink gins at the local drinkery and thereafter became the best of chums forevermore.

Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

Certainly not. Such a violation of free speech is a barbaric as the practice of using profanity itself. Such crutches are only for the weak.

Quote:

We use it because it's been ingrained in our vocabulary

And where - good sir - did THEIR 'grain' arise? The root of the profane is the expression of a though in vulgar language. Every child that enters the public discourse learns what words are and aren't 'bad' by the time they can speak unless the parent is negligent of the child suffers from Turrets. Even you yourself doubtless keep your profanity in check when in generalized social situations such as work, school, offices, and so forth. Since that is so, you then CHOOSE to use the profane in less stringent environments such as "teh internets".

Since you maintain two speech registers (one profane, and one not) then your use of the profane is - in fact - a CHOICE you make for shock and/or some other purpose. Therefore my original argument stands. You are not some helpless tool of your raising with no ability to choose a better path. You deliberately stoop to the vulgar for purposes of 'big talk' (IE increasing your volume), or because you find it humorous. Neither is a laudible or acceptable choice when there are many other options you could use instead.

But - that's my opinion. I don't pretend to be the final arbiter of speech. I merely call it as I see it, and recommend you select a higher path than tossing out the occasional profanity thinking it puts emPHAsis to what you say.

Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions

What's going on with spoiler?, we used to get spoilers before the chapter came out while most of them were fake but they were fun to read and discussed and sometimes they were real ones ...
I forgot when was the last time that we got one..

living in the darkness and now with a new light, i will raise to a new beginning...