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At breakfast, a Milwaukee brand manager sat at our table, and started building our excitement for the day.

I don’t remember the exact context, but I vaguely remember myself and Ben chiming in with “voltage” when asked about higher tool power, or something of the sort. Forgive me, it’s been an exhausting day.

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“Voltage isn’t everything.”

Well…

True. But to get to next-gen cordless power tool capabilities with M18 or other 18V-class battery packs, you’d need extreme thermal management and wires the size of my pinky finger. Right?

And then BOOM, we’re told that the next leap forward in the Milwaukee cordless power tools family was going to be M18 High Output battery packs and a new range of tools that can fully take advantage of them.

There was a lot going on at the NPS18 media event. New tools to demo, lots of photos to take, tons of questions to ask.

I made it my mission to understand the new High Output tech as thoroughly as possible.

First, the claims are bold. 100’s of amps? The tools and battery packs can handle peaks of hundreds of amps? I didn’t get a hard number, but was given the impression that the new Milwaukee M18 High Output tools and battery packs could handle extremely high power output.

There will be new M18 XC 6.0Ah battery, and an M18 HD 12.0Ah battery pack. Why not 8.0Ah XC battery? That’s one of the questions I forgot to ask.

There were several demos, pitting the new Milwaukee M18 High Output tools against competing offerings. In one demo, there was a corded circular saw, a competitors’ 60V Max cordless circular saw, and the new M18 Fuel circular saw. The M18 Fuel saw, paired with a High Output battery pack blew the others away.

Seeing is believing, or at least it’s a start.

How? How can they do this? How can an M18 battery pack power an M18 tool at a level that doesn’t seem possible?

We talked details, a few times, and here’s the gist of it: Milwaukee’s product designers and engineers paid extreme attention to all details.

I can’t tell you some of those details, as they could reveal too much to competitors. Seriously.

The details made sense. Small but significant optimizations stack together to get there, providing big benefits and potential. Maybe we can talk more about those details, but I’ll have to hold off a little.

The levels of power output that we were talking about are not possible with current generations of 18V-class battery packs and tools. So, Milwaukee designed new batteries and tools.

Why? Why not go to a 2-battery system? Because it can be clunky and unfriendly to users. 2 battery packs on the end of a saw? Angle grinder?

Go higher voltage? Milwaukee is seeking to save their users’ time and effort. So why put more time back into tool usage by introducing a new battery system that’s not fully compatible with M18?

See, I told you that full M18 compatibility was important to them!

You can use the new M18 High Output batteries with all M18 tools, unless there’s a physical incompatibility.

M18 Compatibility

You can use M18 XC battery packs in the new heaviest duty cordless tools. We talked a little about performance, but the bottom line is that you can use other battery packs together with the current breed of High Output M18 Fuel tools.

I saw it with my own 2 eyes. We paired several of the new M18 Fuel tools with both battery types, and there were few perceivable differences..

Tool performance will depend on the application, but you CAN use a non-High Output battery packs in the new breed of highest performance tools.

I cannot even begin to think about the potential this brings. Milwaukee is keeping other battery form factor options on the table, but for M18 High Output, this is just the start.

They made a VERY compelling case for the new M18 High Output battery packs, and the new Fuel brushless power tools designed to take advantage of their superior power delivery ceiling.

Here’s how the new battery packs compare in size against other M18 batteries.

With these new releases, Milwaukee has defied our expectations, bending conventional engineering limitations and outright breaking our assumptions. I was impressed with what I saw, and are excited not just for these new launches, but for what the next year or two (or more) of added developments that will follow in their wake.

The only problem with this (which I’m sure Milwaukee is aware of and planning for in their marketing) is the fact that now you have so many different generations of batteries. Look at your last pic of the battery lineup – there is RedLithium, RedLithium XC, RedLithium High Output XC, RedLithium HD, and RedLithium High Output HD.

What’s the difference between XD and HOXC and HD? Obviously XC has more runtime than the original, and HOHD is the top of the line, but the two batteries in the middle don’t make a ton of sense in terms of naming scheme.

Would it have been better to just have RedLithium XC and RedLithium High Output, and then rate the batteries based on their amp-hours rating? I’m not sure, and I’m sure Milwaukee knows what they are doing but this confuses even me and I have a shop full of Milwaukee stuff!

You have compact and XC, which I consider as standard. Then there’s HD, which has also become standard.

After that, there’s XC HO and HD HO, for when a tool needs max power delivery potential. Someone buying one of those batteries will likely have a specific tool in mind to use them for, or specific reasons.

I look at the kit configurations, as that usually gives an indication of what the best battery pairing might be.

Or, in some applications, the HD HO might just be the more premium longer runtime solution, similar to how Dewalt has their 6.0Ah 20V Max battery and 9.0Ah FlexVolt battery.

Not surprising really. Drones and RC cars and planes, etc have been pulling high amperage for a couple decades. People mistakenly assume you need to use wire gauge from house wiring standards, which need to be able to handle 80% of their rating continuously while fully encased in insulation for a 100′ run, not a 4 inch run.

No 8.0 battery because the 3 Ah 2100 cells can output higher current. Usable bursts of maybe 100A per cell vs 60-70A per cell. So both the 6 and 12 packs can output around 200A

Nope, the chemistry is the same. The way the anode and cathode are configured and the way the battery is encased is different. Li-on cells are designed for cycle life over amperage because of thier heritage, but that is not a requirement.

No, they are different chemistry. Lipo batteries have discharge rates on the order of 50-100C, some even higher than that. I pull 250 amps on my 4S 2500mah CNHL on punch outs with my drone. You try to pull 250 amps from 4 18650 cells and you get a pretty cool 4th of July show.

Yes, you can pull higher amperage through thinner wire, but the wire is going to heat more.

It’s not a big deal if it’s just in little bursts, but it you are pulling 100A continuously for a long time (say using a chainsaw) a wire rated to only heat to 60C while carrying 15A, that wire is going generate a lot of heat. If the heat is in bursts the wire has a change to cool down between bursts, if it’s continuous draw it can’t cool down.

The longer the wire the more total heat energy it’ll produce. You have to mitigate that. For instance some of the tools had the wires routed through the heat sinks for the electronics.

I wonder if heat sinking the wires, as well as other tricks we don’t know about, will be sufficient to avoid thermal shutdowns under prolonged heavy loads. I’m sure Milwaukee would say yes, but I intend to pickup the new circular saw and find out for myself!

“Voltage isn’t everything?” It IS something. As you pointed out, higher current means more power loss in the conductors. Power loss increases with the square of current, where

Power = Current * Current * Impedance.

It would be necessary to reduce impedance, i.e. shorten wire lengths, reduce motor loss, power electronics loss, etc. However, it is also true that the power capability increases with a voltage increase and does not necessarily require current increase, where

Power = Voltage * Current.

Milwaukee is not wanting to alienate customers and give them a chance to jump ship by introducing a new line of tools that only work with a new line of batteries. I can appreciate that.

However, if they indeed have “better” cells in their battery packs, it would only be a matter of time for competitors to also source those cells or equivalent cells. Then a higher voltage means higher output power, given similar cells at similar discharge rates.

These are interesting times and will be sort of entertaining to watch it unfold.

Actually, it kind of makes sense. When tools went to brushless motors one of the things mentioned about them was that they can cooler, so it makes sense that a brushless motor could handle more current without overheating. More current, combined with greater efficiency makes for a new level of performance. With the benefit of backwards compatibility, I see this as a big step forward .

Cost/Benefit ratio calculations around the new batteries/tools should also be interesting.

A few other thoughts about tool batteries:

When buying batteries for businesses – I’d try to buy in bulk to save a few bucks.
We were able to do that with Makita but I don’t recall being able to do much of that with M12 batteries. I had no experience with M18 as we were just phasing into M18 tools for one business when I sold-up and retired. We were never big enough to buy tools at wholesale – but we might buy 20 batteries at a clip.

Also, when your battery inventory is in the hundreds of pieces how to manage all of them with aging out issues, different Ah ratings, different weights etc. can be interesting. The crews probably grabbed what they liked best from the tool room or workout center – when they needed to supplement what was on the trucks. That probably left some batteries under utilized and others stressed. A secondary battery gauge to give you an indication of how many cycles a battery has gone through might be difficult to add – but would be handy to have.

I’m no expert, but my impression was battery packs had been limited by amp output of individual cells, not things like wire gauge. Over-working the cells, drawing more amps, damages and destroys them faster, no? Is Milwaukee using new battery chemistry or technology?

21700 is just the size, not necessarily indicative of the cell’s capability, although one *could* assume larger might mean higher capability (it depends on cell chemistry, design, quality, etc.). The numbers mean the cell has a 21mm diameter and a 70.0mm length.

I think you can use them. But what will happen is they will trip out sooner on these new tool. This means it’s not using all its energy. If you keep using it… You risk damage. So you should have 2 new 12amp h batteries and the 6 bay charger to charge in a respectable time!

The battery lab engineers explained that the new power hungry tools recognize the battery pack type and will only ask for the amount of current it can actually provide. So not risking damage, but you’ll get decreased performance. They even spun up the 9″ angle grinder using a 2Ah slim pack to prove their point (but didn’t actually do any grinding with it).

I get the idea of using the newest cells have a much higher charge release rate. what do they use now 40C batteries? And I suspect they got into the idea of optimized motors but I still bet internally they run a higher voltages in the controler to the motor.

Glad to see the competition though – and equally curious as to costs vs use case.

By the way how exactly did their circular saw blow the others away. I could see Dewalt coming out with a new circ saw with a stronger motor to take advantage of run times with a new battery pack also. So that might be interesting. At this point I guess that means Dewalt and Milwaukee are the only companies with a 71/4 circular saw that has more power than conventional corded.

Did you see the test, the dewalt was jumping around on the sled like it was struggling and the Milwaukee was plowing through… I’ve never seen the 60v saw struggle ever so I have a hard time believing these tests. Unless a third party does it, take it with a grain of salt

I and my non trades colleagues love having the right tools for our use.
So that can mean the latest and most useful but frankly doesn’t mean the best/biggest/baddest batteries because we never do day in day out repetitive uses. So the boring “normal” batteries will likely remain as our primary power source.
Whether M18 or Bosch CORE.

I read a comment somewhere that Milwaukee was planning on providing free housing replacements for tools that have enclosed compartments that wouldn’t fit the new 12Ah battery. I don’t know how far that would extend, like the old M18 toolbox vacs that fit the 9 but probably not the 12 if it’s much taller (without removing the V18 interface anyway). The example was the utility bucket light. I’d imagine there are some tools that will just have unfixable issues though if you really want to use them with the 12Ah packs, like sitting the M18 rotating head rover flat with that size pack, or the new sander not having the dust canister be in the way. Maybe the rocket tower lights that the battery goes in a “cubby” on the light.

The pictures of the table saw were a bit interesting, even with the 12Ah in there, it looked like Milwaukee left a slot worth of space below the battery, maybe to account for possible future even-larger-packs.

To the best of my knowledge, just go to Milwaukee’s e-service page, fill out the paperwork and request the upgrade, and send it off to them. Usual turnaround is around 10 business days, and they’ll cover shipping both ways.

What happened to Milwaukee portable power station? that is the one tool all trades need. Seems that milwaukee is trying to close every gap where dewalt managed to build…maybe a higher performing tool. This gap is still wide open, no disruptive innovation or competition on the power station

Or the air compressor (my personal want), or the mower, nor have they matched the framing guns DeWalt has, among other things.

But I think Milwaukee was right on in their keynote of focusing on their core trades, mechanical, plumbing, HVAC/electrical (any love for Automotive too?). Not that the power station wouldn’t be useful for those, but I think dewalt positioned the power station to be used during construction, framing specifically, when there may not be power on site yet and a user wants (or needs) to use a corded tool. I actually am okay with no rear handle saw, less hand tools this year, and other “omissions” if it means Milwaukee focusing on delivering the right tools for their trades, as best as possible. The 10” miter saw is more of a construction item, and I think they might have rushed it to market a bit just to compete with flexvolt. Semi-same with the table saw this year, it isn’t a core trade and more a need-to-compete item, though I think they learned and have been working on the table saw since the same time as the miter, and are releasing it now that it’s ready, rather than just me-too it quickly.

I think we’ll see a power station eventually, and framing guns eventually, and a rear handle saw and just about everything dewalt has come out with, but I think they’re setting the stage to take their time doing that, and do it “right”. Same as Dewalt matching some of Milwaukee’s plumbing offerings and similar over the past couple years. Dewalt knows their core is construction, so got the table and miters and framing circular out to keep leading, and on the side are catching up on plumbing and other trades. Milwaukee would be remiss not to release “core” construction tools like the table saw, because they need to maintain a level of general competitiveness. But matching everything dewalt has for construction isn’t feasible or smart, just as vice versa with dewalt ever matching all of milwaukee’s cordless plumbing and other specialty solutions.

The 2 “tools” that people are wishing Milwaukee would make to compete with Dewalt, sort of don’t make sense in a battery world. If Milwaukee makes a cordless tool for everything, is there as much of a need for a power station? The power station almost makes more sense for outside the trades if this is the case.

Now that they have more power to work with, I am going to say that they will be working on a framing nailer this year, and perhaps refresh the existing line, at least the units that usually rank less than Ryobi’s. Then, what do you need a a compressor for? Only other thing I use my compressor for is filling tires, which of course Milwaukee (now) has a tool for.

I do realize their are many other tools people use with compressors, but I have a feeling they usually need a dedicated powered unit, ie painting.

I’m not saying it wouldn’t be nice to see them, but I’d rather see their focus elsewhere. Lawnmower, backpack blower, handheld as well as extendable pruner (not saw), larger fan, more tools utilizing the USB charged batteries.

A cordless framer does not replace a pneumatic framing gun. Furthermore Milwaukee is really bad at cordless nail guns, their offerings are abysmal. They have frightfully poor line of site and for some reason way 314 pounds each.

I guess I thought a cordless framer would suffice for me, as it would not be for production work.

@Eric, I guess I wasn’t thinking lights. Walkies, small screw driver, I’m sure some other things. I think a lot of it is the compatibility between devices, more so with other offerings in the mix. Only thing I saw was heated gloves that use them this year

What do you find exciting about the usb batteries? It’s just a rewrapped 18650 with a big markup. There are plenty of good usb rechargeable flashlights out there that are superior to the Milwaukee offerings in every way, and a lot of them will be cheaper.

Same kind of with the M12 6’s, though those are more widespread. But why aren’t they in the newer kits? And a lot of the NPS pictures were all M12 tools using 4Ah batteries, didn’t see too many 6Ah in pictures. See a lot of the M18 5Ah (and new batteries), but not any of the M18 6Ah.

I saw an Instagram post with Canadian carpenter where the saw completely stalled on him during a bevel cut. “the most powerful saw on the market”. DeWalt / Makita blade left can make that cut. Is their marketing not factoring in torque? Just watts out when they refer to power?

Figured the future was amps for cordless tools. I mean you’re not bound by the electrical outlet since they’re not corded tools so why be bound to the amperage that corded tools generally are bound too? If this can be set by Milwaukee’s One Key I could imagine a situation where maybe your portable table saw needs more power to cut through a harder wood (I don’t freakin’ know… just go with it). So maybe you can up the amps via One Key to make an easier cut of it.

If this is the case I don’t know why all cordless tool manufacturers wouldn’t go to something like this; bursts of super high amps when you need it.

Gee, Milwaukee show, Milwaukee testing is so legit. Like 2 years ago comparing the 9ah against Dewalts 6ah ….or dropping a cinder block by its corner on an empty, bottom of the line tough system case and saying..look it cracked…
First as a framer I’m highly suspicious that an 18v tool can “blow away” Dewalts 575 with the 9ah on it, never mind the 12ah on it…guaranteed different blades,the Flexvolt had a 6ah on it and so forth….
Mark down my words as I claim 1 year from the release of the new HD circ saw that problems will arise…

So if you want HD powerful tools ,you must BUY a new circ saw or other tools and if you want it to perform at its best,you must BUY the 12ah HO batteries..but of course those HO batteries can be used in the other tools…and any battery can power the HO tool but it won’t have the runtime being a non HO battery……….again Gee…

Sounds like Flexvolt, need a more powerful tool ,you buy it…need bigger batteries,you buy them,, and use those batteries on every other tool…

If the HO batteries were so good ,and Milwaukee motor technologies were so advanced, why only an 8 1/4” table saw ? Dewalt already has that. Certainly if they “ blow away “ the competition with a circ saw, it stands to reason they should be able to blow away the 8” table saw with a new 10” tablesaw…

Gotta love marketing, …I will say the M 12 stubby wrench at 250 ft lbs is Amazing, and the M12 rocket light at 1400 lumens is also….gen 3 impact drill, so small and powerful…
Milwaukee makes some great tools, but also great lies.

Okay I’ve seen this comment about the Packout cinder block test a few times. Are you confusing the Packout test with this one where the rep consciously is making the brick land on the corner on a systainer and then drops the block flat on the Packout? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkOR4oOLrao

If not link to the video you are taking about. I’d like to see it. I searched a bit and the above video is the only one I found.

—
I’m not defending any tool company’s testing methods at their shows, of course they pick the tests that are going to make their tools look the best, but if you are going to accuse them of intentionally cheating then show us the proof.

Yes that’s the video, but the rep is doing exactly what they’re told to do. Not to mention a point I made before. Why does not ,one, bystander say something ..? Packout is nice , but the Dewalt case was empty and it doesn’t come that way from the factory….
And your wrong about Dewalt events, not only do they do tests that are fair, but every competitor is shown,not painted grey…the tool,the batteries on the tools…everything is in the open for everyone to see.
It goes back to a bunch a sponsored guys going to these verses a bunch of hardcore,experienced framers and construction guys. Sponsored guys don’t say anything is wrong, “ avg joe” says yo that’s BS….
The proof is in that video, removing the interior inserts weakens the lid with no support under it, also they are comparing the lowest cost bargain Dewalt case against the top of the line packout case….that’s last year.
You see the different battery packs on the circular saws….this year…why grey everything out ? Dewalt doesn’t do it…..they put their tool right next to the top of the line exact competition, in plane view…….sketchy sir…it’s called having integrity.
I have and use Milwaukee tools, I personally don’t care if Dewalt is king of everything, there not….but be fair in the test , they do the same crap to Makita tools also.

Good grief man, just relax. Had a bad day? As for the Packout vs. Toughsystem. I’ve had both. Packout is MUCH stronger. You also seem to be complaining that a person may need to buy the HO batteries to run the chainsaw or table saw. So what? Do you think that it should run just as well with the original 1.5AH battery?

Your right if those batteries are so great why don’t you just put them in the old fuel circular saw and get all that extra power, 50% more power I believe they said that would make the fuel saw more powerful than the flexvolt saw wouldn’t it,Milwaukee should change their name to the democrat tool company because they lie just like them

They basically built a new line of tools like DeWalt did with flexvolt… Only way any of these tools will perform is with these batteries… Sure you can use the others, but you think the circ saw is going to beat a flexvolt with a 5ah or 9ah battery, good luck

True that may be, but at least with the Milwaukee, you can still buy the HD bare tool and still use it normaly with M18 batteries. Then later on you can invest in HD batteries if you so choose to. Dewalt on the other hand, you have to buy the Flexvolt battery if you want to use the Flexvolt tool.

Technically correct, but any other battery in a HO tool will not make the Tool perform as it is designed, which is with a HO battery. And runtime would be atrocious. …..
That’s like saying , I’ll grab my 2ah and throw it in the HD HO circ saw because I can……it won’t function right or last long….your not putting a 3ah in the tablesaw because you can.
Believe the hype and buy that HD circ saw, put a 5ah in it and please let me know how it works out. ….But if you want to have that New HD circ saw function as it’s designed to…you Must Buy HO batteries to optimize performance and runtime, the exact same as Dewalt FlexVolt….
Last year they told you that the 9ah was the answer to Flexvolt power, the circ saw is just as good with the new 9ah battery. …now this year it’s a new hd circ saw and HO battery ….and it still won’t beat a Dewalt 575 or 577 in the real world….

You will also need to then complain about the 10″ Miter saw. That does not perform as well on a 5ah as it does a 9, and Milwaukee said that.

If the new Super Circular only performs like what the current Fuel does on a non-HO battery, then what is the complaint. You aren’t out any money, have a great tool, and when the times comes to buy a HO battery for it because you were too cheap to buy a kit, and even better tool.

I don’t see people using 2ahs in their Dewalt circ’s and raving about it

Expect that everything you just said hearsay, because you want to lie to yourself to make you feel better. I like Dewalt too, but seriously Joe, I don’t make stuff up without any evidence, just to defend a brand. You know you can like both right? Bottom line, Milwaukee battteries can do what Dewalt’s can’t. Stop having Milwaukee envy. Be happy with what you got and stop worrying with what you don’t.

That’s not fact and Dewalts show is coming, when their 12ah goes on the Flexvolt tools then you’ll see the truth….I own every M12 tool…I own tools from every company and boat loads of German made tools….I’m not brand loyal except for construction tools and No one comes close to Flexvolt, sorry

There are multiple lithium-based battery chemistries, with some of them trading capacity, voltage and/or stability (ie not as easily overcharged, etc.) for discharge rate. LiPO (iirc) is one example, and it’s got an incredible C rating. Over ten years ago i remember a youtube video of an electric motorcycle with incredible acceleration made by using the then-new batteries.

This is the obvious explanation for how they’re making these HO batteries: different lithium battery chemistry.

All this banging on about compatibility. Look at the photo of all those batteries, that’s worse than just simply having 2 voltage/battery platforms! 6 types of batteries on the same charger cannot really be claimed as fully compatible. If a high output tool can’t perform with any single one of those 6 batteries than its not compatible.

You’d never use the large 12ah on anything other than large tools, so why not just have a second battery platform? It’s simpler. Now that OPE is viable, there’s plenty of tools to warrant one.

All the manufacturers are getting this wrong. They’re overcomplicating things in an effort to simplify things. All because having another charger/battery platform has some kind of stigma or taboo surrounding it. All these new high output or flexvolt tools require buying a new battery anyway.

An 18V battery pack for drills, impacts etc and a 36V or 60V battery pack for grinders, OPE etc with a single common charger for both would be ideal.

This isn’t exactly the same question but I found it interesting. I asked a PM about reducing the number of battery SKUs, like why they were keeping the 4.0Ah batteries when they had so many different batteries. Why not just put in 5.0s and dump the 4.0s?

I’m interpreting marketing speak here, but he said they package the lower amp hour batteries with lower priced product to help differentiate them from the more premium products with premium batteries. They’ve been producing the 4.0s for a long time they have a stable supply chain and they don’t think it confuses the customer.

You could do exactly the same thing if it was a new battery platform for high power tools; put it on a chainsaw then switch it to a grinder.

Just put all those tools on their own higher voltage battery platform together!

Milwaukee says compatibility is great but if the batteries are huge, it’s not great, and it’s not needed either.

I doubt you’ll ever use a compact 2ah on a chainsaw, or a gigantic 12ah on a drill. I’ve used a 2ah on a string trimmer, but it’s not meant for that, and performance and heat were a problem.

We’ve thrown away common sense. These battery platforms they’re coming out with are just becoming more complicated. They’re not really fully compatible and you always have to buy a new battery to get started with the new tools.

Everyone just pause for a minute and have a think about it. They might as well just put them on a new platform (Dewalt too).

High power tools/OPE, and lighting are about the only tools people seem to be using these monstrous batteries on. Backwards compatibility isn’t really needed.

Your use case is probably the only one where any size battery is used on the same tool. I can’t think of any others (if someone does, please post).

Here’s one: I once considered buying a heavier Flexvolt battery to use on the 20V string trimmer just to make it heavier at the top (to improve its balance). It was purely for ergonomics. The extra runtime would have been a bonus but it wasn’t needed. Maybe some of the large drills and impact wrenches will balance out as well.

With user feedback and sales numbers they figured out long ago that users would rather have the ability to use different batteries across a large tool platform than manage multiple different types of batteries.

Hence the focus on innovating in the 12 and 18 volt lineup.

I very seriously considered the m18 string trimmer vs the Ego power head self loading trimmer. The Ego was the better and more affordable tool, but I seriously considered the m18 because it would have given me a 9ah battery with incredible runtime if I ever needed it for my rocket light or hackzall.

Yes the batteries will be heavier, but coming out with a flex volt competitor that will fit any of the current m18 tools is an incredible feat of engineering.

I see the same problem with the FlexVolt system and now this. They both put their own spin into it. Essentially it’s a separate battery system because the new tool can’t be used with the old tools (Dewalt flexvolt have the same problem). So for most intent and purposed it’s mostly a new battery system and rightly so because there is only so much power that can be pulled out of a smaller battery, so whichever way they do it, it will be a big battery. I see some users already complaint that the old battery can’t be used on the new tool. I was like duh, it’s not physically possible…

At any rate I do agree with me but I don’t blame the tool company for doing so. It’s all about massaging the user expectations. It also give people something to rave about… Even if the feature is practically useless for the most part it sound really cool!

If they only released the high output 12.0 I’d agree with you. But it sounds like the 6.0 can produce the same power, and isn’t much bigger than the current 5.0, and much smaller than the flexvolt. The high output 6.0 is a battery that one could conceivably use on everything from an impact driver to a table saw.

The Milwaukee 6.0 will be bigger than Metabo’s original 6.2ah LiHD (21700 vs 20700 cells), but the same as their new 8.0 LiHD (both 21700).

I’ve got the original 6.2ah LiHD and it’s a big battery, but not Flexvolt big. It throws the balance out quite a bit on their compact drill and impact driver. It’s just not right.

Yes one COULD use the new 6.0 on any tool, but they won’t because it will be too big and heavy. Everyone will learn this once they get their hands on one.

I’ve seen a photo of Dewalt’s DCD996 (biggest) drill with the 9ah Flexvolt and it’s laughable.

Watch how careful Milwaukee will be with their marketing of these batteries. An official photo with them on a drill or impact will likely never be seen, but they’ll still claim “full compatibility”. Their new impact driver looks great and VERY compact, but would anyone put the new 6.0 on it? The battery will most certainly be longer in length than the tool itself. The 12.0 would be a freak show.

Sorry, great stuff by Milwaukee, loving the advancement, I just get annoyed at the spin, exaggeration, and careful omission of facts.

I’m missing something here I guess. I can imagine running the new cordless tablesaw for a project and perhaps I drain the new 12.0Ah battery but towards the end of my project I realize I need to make two more cuts. I absolutely can pull my standard issue 5.0Ah battery off of my 1/2 inch hammer drill and plug it into my table saw and make those two cuts. It is fully compatible. Is it ideal perhaps not but it will work and save your backside when needed. Now in this same exact scenario it would be impossible to pull the non-FlexVolt battery out of your DeWalt drill and plug it into your FlexVolt DeWalt tablesaw and make those two last cuts. This I believe is where, in the field, on the job, the compatibility issue will be seen and appreciated. Every manufacturer has positioned different batteries with different equipment to maximize the fit, form, and function but having complete versatility to swap (when needed) any battery into ANY tool is what Milwaukee has done and I think it is an excellent option for the consumer. I’m certainly NOT advocating for anyone to switch systems but if your invested in Red you gotta be pleased that they have preserved functionality. If you’re invested in Yellow this isn’t a game changer that is going to get anyone thinking of switching you’ve likely already invested in the second system (FlexVolt) and have both battery platforms in Dewalt so you’ve already made the leap within DeWalt and possess the various required battery systems that allow you to use all your tools.

The big battery/tool and small battery/tool pair with a common charger already is Flexvolt, with the bonus that the big batteries work in the small tools.

I am thrilled with Flexvolt. I get convenient outdoor power equipment, an awesome grinder and circular saw, and a miter saw no one seems to have an answer to (and any 120v tool I want cordless with the power station). Plus, all of the giant batteries work in any of my 20v tools including the lights. It seems like Dewalt could continue to really own the space with more of the 120v Max/120v AC tools.

I have not once thought, “I wish I could use this 2ah 20v battery to power my Flexvolt grinder”, but it is very nice to be able to use the monster batteries to power lights, recip saws, power station, etc. The one way compatibility is limiting on paper but in actual use it is all upside.

I bought far more 20v and 60v Max tools that I intended to because the ecosystem is so convenient.

I don’t know if I said it in my other post but good on them for trying to stick to their guns on a comment they made 2 years ago. (I think it was 2) I’m honestly a bit surprised.

I still don’t want them in that I wouldn’t purchase them. But I will agree they make a good tool in some instances.

but in the voltage isn’t everything statement I would ask them what voltage is supplied to the motor from the brushless controller and what current load. Followed by what voltage and current is supplied to the input side of the motor controller.

now if only Dewalt would make more of the tools milwaukee makes in other trades (the plumbing and electrical versions). again competition.

This reminds me of the Ford Dodge and Chevy wars. One manufacturer one up me the other then the other follows it this can only be good for the customer as will get the best tools and have the best experiences with newest tech. Keep it coming.

We all stand to benefit thanks to Tesla’s new factory standardising on 21700 cells with their greater energy capacity. Nice to see these appearing but they will become available to everyone before long.
Overly large heavy battery packs are irrelevant to all but the heavier tools. Great to see a 12ah pack and a chainsaw to put it in, the table saw too (and a mitre saw ?). These are cool but for drill drivers, impacts, and most of what I would use, what I’m interested in is single row, higher capacity packs in a compact size that keeps the tool weight down. Double row packs have their place too for the cordless SDS and cordless circ. trimsaws where the drain is higher and the balance of the tool can take a medium weight pack.
I’m pleased to see a very sensible, pragmatic decision to maintain 18V compatibility. I was annoyed by all the 60V b***sh*t (please, we’re not winding the voltage up to 400kV to reduce resistive losses in long distance power transmission and save copper over thousands of miles of the energy grid so as Milwaukee seem to have demonstrated, higher voltage is more marketing gimmick than acmeaningful benefit).
Please don’t fall for the hype, there’s some nice to see incremental development here but this isn’t rocket science. They’re really just applying the latest innovations in battery and what was once called stepper motor tech.

Completely wrong. I’ll say it again. You my friend are clearly not a Framer or builder. The only tools that can match and beat corded power are Flexvolt tools, ( not the sawzall, it sucks) ….the Flexvolt 575 and 577 saws are actually more powerful then corded tools.
I use them everyday, no other manufacturer of cordless saws even comes close to the power of Flexvolt saws….It’s not Hype….
The makita rear handle saw is third behind the two Dewalt saws. It’s a good saw, ( 2 batteries) but not there on power yet. The tablesaw, mitre saw , grinder are all better….only guys that don’t use them for a living , don’t understand the real power they have. 60v (54v) are badass
The argument that 162wh is a 162wh no matter what voltage is insanity. The 2017 Milwaukee circ saw ,cant rip dense stock without overheating and stopping. It can’t do it…the tool can’t do the job….the 54v Flexvolt can do it …easily…again and again….Hype ?

The circular saw test was rigged to high heaven, no way the dewalt struggles like it did in the test… I seen the video protoolreviews posted of the test… The dewalt was jumping around like it had a 15 year old blade on it

There’s no denying that the flexvolt 575/577 are great saws, much faster than the old Milwaukee, but none of us have used or compared the new Milwaukee saw. I suspect in reality they are comparable enough to not warrant changing brands. Milwaukee is screwing the west coast by not having a worm drive style saw though.

Pretty sure it will be on the way. Dewalt’s worm saw came out a year after their flexvolt saw. Milwaukee most likely put their resources in to puting out this High Output saw first, before working on their worm style saw. That’s my prediction, and I’m sticking to it. 🙂

You must not be a historian, cause you have your dates messed up. Milwaukee didn’t release a circular saw last year, but 2014.

You comparing what many would consider one of the best first 7-1/4″ cordless saws, to a saw that came out 2 years after on a new/redesigned battery platform. of course it will do better, not sure Dewalt would sell many if it didn’t.

No one has mentioned price. I always seem to find Milwaukee comes across as the better value vs the other big brands. Many more options to get into Milwaukee & more sales. This could be biased as that is what I look for, but I don’t see nearly as many Dewalt promotions. The absolute brute power does not apply to everyone out there. If a tool for 20% less can accomplish 99% of the other, it’s a no brainier choice.

One thing I have noticed with my job doing electrical where the fuel m18 hammer drill is used, when cutting through some cement or anything that the drill is struggling to get through is heat in the chuck amd we had one go bad from it. Besides the argument of blade sharpness or proper material bit, with more wattage, are you going to melt the chuck on your gen 2 fuel drills? Idk, just curious if anybody else has observed this? I have been buying milwaukee and klien for my 2nd set or tools. Anything less besides screw drivers dont seem to last. Now, there is also the slight possibility I have picked up the habit of blasting through tasks as as my current journeyman does at the cost of the tool.

Yea, it maily is tapcons for cement. But specifically it has happened when using a step bit trying to get into a 400 A panel and a hole saw for can lights (6″) get into sometype of plaster mixed with sand. My boss swears by milwaukee drills as the best. I have been using a 1st gen brushed screwdriver 12v for going on 2 years with heavy use no problem.

I like the backwards compatibility for end of the day issues. I’m not going to use that big battery in my drill driver all day, but when my 5.0 dies with 20 screws left to run in, I will toss it in and finish up.

I don’t use the 9.0 batteries much either, but they sure last a long time in the lights.

So you convinced me, backward and forward compatibility are both important and nice to have. I am still wondering how big are those real world uses case are. Though I must say even if the use cases are small they still give Milwaukee a clear advantage to push user toward a purchasing decision.

I think some people here are understating how nice it is to actually have compatibility across all tools with batteries. There are quite a few in-between tools that benefit from being able to use either batteries. Sure a chainsaw or table saw won’t run for long on a 4.0 or 5.0 battery, but quite a few tools do.

Take the mud mixer, impact wrenches, sds drills, sawzall, circular saw, grinder for example. All these can easily run on either size battery. I have 5 9.0 and 10 5.0/4.0 batteries. If am setting up for all day use, I grab the big batteries, but a lot of the time for a quick cut here and there I will just grab a battery out of a drill and pop it in my saw or hammer drill. All of my current gen tools operate perfectly fine on the smaller batteries, but when I need more run time I still have the option to use my bigger ones.

Dewalt still requires two different battery platforms, Milwaukee doesn’t. There is no 20V max 9.0, but there is a 60V max 9.0. There are M18 5.0, 9.0 and now 12.0, seems to me Milwaukee makes for since. If they have the same power then what’s the difference?

That’s the literature, they sell. But can a 3 or 5 ah battery in a HD tool really work to HD level, and if so then at what runtime…? I highly doubt that tablesaw is ripping anything for more then a few minutes without a HD battery in it…
Technically yes, real world use, no….are Milwaukee fans really going out to buy this tablesaw,thinking their 5ah packs will work great in it ? That’s what Milwaukee is selling.

I think I have said it before, a DW executive said in a meeting “we are marketing company not a manufacturing company” circa 2001 – this executive is now running a TTI division (not tools), MKE is a very good marketing company.

Any folks remember the early days of DW? 92 – 96 was B & D industrial sold in yellow vs. grey w/ a ton of job site hype…….

I still use a B & D industrial drill (date code 96) purchased in 2000/2001 that was sold as DW 106.

A ton of ex DW folks are @ MKE now……..

I do not work for a tool company (any longer) I personally own DW, B & D industrial, MKE, Metabo, Bosch, Skil (wormdrive), Ridgid & Ryobi…….

IMO MKE & DW are innovativing cordless tech, you have to take a step back from the roadshows & decide what works best for you.

I know that there was a lot going on but I wound if Milwaukee will still make m18 2.0ah compact, 3.0ah, 4.0ah, 5.0ah xc batteries or will they only offer a 4.0ah compact battery a 6.0ah HO and a 12ah HO. Will they update the older 9.0ah battery? And why did the make a 6.0ah HO instead of a 8.0ah HO it would have the same amount of cells? Also will the m12 start using newer 21700 battery cells.

The 6.0 HO is because it takes 3 sets of 4.0 cells to be able to get peak output around 200 amps, but only 2 sets of 3.0 cells which have lower internal resistance. They could make an 8.0 pack that would have a lower max output.

I don’t think we’ll see M12 with bigger cells because the battery fits inside of the tool.

Before you know it these batteries are going to be too heavy to be used for cordless tools and cost a fortune. The more cells, wires, etc they cram into these things, the more they weigh. What’s the next step up in terms of future generation battery amphours? 16hr? 18hr? 24hr? $300? $400? $500? It’s going to get to the point where these things weigh as much as a 12v. Then what? You’ll have a 2lb tool with a 9lb battery? Even a 5lb battery would be a fatigue bringer. Good luck trying to get people to buy a battery that weighs as much as bowling ball. Unless they start making cells much smaller than the current size with the same output, then maybe it’s time to start finding a better solution for cordless battery power besides lithium ion. And I thought the nicad batteries were too damn big but I’m sure they never weighed as much. And just because it has more amphours its not going to change how much the tools draw to operate effectively with the materials that they are working. High output don’t mean shit but more money and more weight.

I was present at this NPS 2018 and all I can say is this : Milwaukee upped their game with a breed of new tools to compete with Flexvolt by using much larger brushless motors. Bigger motors = more powerful motors. Period. Not much here to brag or to rave about. When many of us thought Milwaukee would slap a 2nd battery on their power hungry tools, or develop a dual voltage battery to achieve higher voltage, Milwaukee simply scaled things up and kept the same platform. From what I’ve gathered, the new 21700 cells run much cooler under load so heat isn’t an issue anymore. So in a way, this new battery technology saved their rear in their commitment to a low voltage/high amperage battery system.

As far as battery format and size goes, I think a lot of folks here have completely missed the whole point. You will pick the right battery format for your needs. No point in putting a HD 12.0Ah on a drywall screwdriver or a compact 2.0Ah battery to run the tablesaw. While both options are technically feasible, one would have to be dumb to the bone to even want to try that. Small and light duty tools = small compact batteries / large and heavy tools = large and powerful batteries. Not much here again to freak out or trash Milwaukee for doing this, it’s just plain logical.

The big positive I see here is that Milwaukee remained committed to their battery platforms for another round, and if you owe Milwaukee tools, you have not been left behind. All your existing and future tools remain compatible both ways. Not many tool companies can claim to have done so much for their existing customer base.

Let’s face it, Milwaukee was losing on the raw power side of things against Flexvolt, but not on the run time department though. With those new larger tools making good use of their 12.0Ah battery, they are back in the game on the power end, and a little ahead now. We’ll see how long it will last.

On the other hand, the 12.0Ah HD battery is huge and the new tools taking advantage of this big battery are also quite big and massive. I held the new FUEL 7-1/4″ circ saw in my hand, and this is nothing short of a beast. We’ll see how the market reacts, but this new category of heavy weight tools will most likely not appeal to all. Cordless tools used to be a very good compromise between power and size, not anymore… If you want power, you will have to carry the weight.

Higher voltage allows lighter motors and thinner wiring. It’s a more appropriate move for high power tools. Milwaukee will end up there eventually.

The comments about battery choice on different tools are simply challenging the full compatibility claims and benefits, no one is missing the point. They’re merely providing examples of how overstated the need/advantages of full compatibility actually is in the real world.

Just because you can, doesn’t mean you will, just as you have also reaffirmed. “You will pick the right battery format for your needs”. Exactly the point right there.

Milwaukee have the heaviest power tools out there. They’re just about to become even heavier (and more expensive).

I agree with all you say. It’s obvious higher voltage motors allow to make them much smaller. I don’t know if you have that type of current in the US, but here in Canada, we have readily available 550 volts motors for shop machinery. Those motors are much smaller than their 220 volts counterparts, while being just as powerful.

Of course, Milwaukee will eventually hit a wall if they keep their low voltage/high amperage motors and batteries, but on the other hand, I’m wondering if that is really important. Just like digital cameras that once were on a pixel count war with every new generation, it eventually became totally meaningless. Once you have say 16 mpx, getting 24 mpx is not that appealing anymore because your photos get way much heavier, but they don’t get any nicer or clearer.

With that analogy in mind, I’m just wondering if the quest for more power can go much further with bigger motors and bigger batteries on cordless tools. Once a cordless tool doesn’t bog down when it cuts/saw/drill at full depth/speed in tough materials, what more can you ask for? It’s been clearly demonstrated at NPS2018, assuming Milwaukee didn’t cheat the demos, that cordless tools have now surpassed 15A corded tools in terms of power. Is this just the beginning? I don’t think so. I think we are approaching a plateau of what portable cordless tools can do, and it will take a while before we get to the next level…

I think once the power hits it’s ceiling or is good enough for use, they should advance the ergonomics by reducing the weight. I’m sure a smaller and lighter higher voltage motor is more responsive and more efficient as well (less mass to move or get spinning?).

But, ergonomics likely has it’s own ceiling. If the battery end of a drill is too much heavier than the motor end, it will feel unbalanced. I’ve actually added a small sandbag to the battery end of a Dewalt 20V string trimmer to help with balance! It’s slightly heavier now, but it feels much better.

I can’t wait to see what is widely adopted after lithium-ion. If the batteries are too lightweight, they might end up adding weights to balance the tools out! There’s only so much they can do with the positioning of the motors. Look at the new M12 models, the motor is well behind the grip. They can’t really go any further back.

On a day when I was buying into a new platform, weight was the only reason I chose Makita over Milwaukee. Every tool and battery I picked up was heavier in Red. Often significantly. This might be the reason Milwaukee often hide the weight of their tools. Their marketing dept. likely know this fact; we can’t visualize a tools weight, but we can see it destroying a competitor in an online video. Marketing is probably close to being 100% visual. Once we have the tool in our hand (and finally discover it’s true weight), they’ve already won, we’ve bought it. So pack ’em full of huge heavy motors so the online videos and spec sheets show keep as best in class. Where possible, I always try to see a tool in person before buying online.

“Every tool and battery I picked up was heavier in Red. Often significantly. This might be the reason Milwaukee often hide the weight of their tools.” Care to back up those claims? How many tools did you pick up? I don’t doubt that you did pick up a few tools and they might have been heavier but which tool? With what batteries? Does the Mikita 18v line up have some of the lightest tools as you have found? Personally I like lighter tool myself in most case.

As far as the new higher output tool, I think you might be right. Though it’s purely speculation at this point but I think it’s a reasonable assumption. However isn’t most of the higher output tool such as the table saw are only semi-portable tool. So I don’t think most user would mind a slightly heavier motor. Again it’s all about reasonable weight pairing with reasonable performance. Something that I would love to hear more once somebody like Stuart have a chance to give them a through review. Overall I do agree with you that the higher output tool are probably a bit heavier, whether that would make a different in real world usage is another.

I am partially convinced about the important of battery compatibility after I thought about the end of day scenarios. I wasn’t thinking of that before. I said partially convinced because I think that the compatibility only matter in a few edge cases. I attribute those edge cases to poor planning. However I am no angel and I am just as guilty of using the wrong tool for the job because that was what available to me at the time. Since sometimes what matter is we get thing up and running. So I can see why in some case those rare but vital case come up that call for using a small battery in a high demand tool and vice versa.

At the end of the day those, I think eventually we will get the next big breakthrough in battery technology and perhaps 60v or even 120v might be the next standard. For now, I think both Dewalt and Milwaukee have come up with a fairly reasonable compromise.

I haven’t compared many Dewalt’s, but I found the OMT, string trimmer (compared without a battery for fairness as only the 9ah was on display for that tool) and compact drill are heavier than Dewalt’s equivalents. There’s another 2.

The Fuel grinder is heavier than Metabos with a 5ah (5.5ah for Metabo).

I have a 12V Bosch PS22 and PS31. I haven’t done a side by side with any M12, but I’ve seen specs online. In particular the M12 batteries are heavier than Bosch. I’ll be buying into M12 this year for the soldering iron.

I think Milwaukee’s batteries let them down most. All seemed heavier than the equivalent Makitas, Dewalts, and especially the Metabo in the compact 2ah. All tools were compared with equivalent battery sizes; either the compact 2ah or 10 cell 5ah/5.5ah.

Have a look at Sparky Channel and Oz Tool Talk videos on you tube. They often weigh both the tool and battery in head to head comparisons. That’s really the only hard evidence you can see unless you go to a store and compare for yourself.

As a challenge, provide a link where Milwaukee comes first place for weight in a comparison. I’m sure there’s some out there, but I haven’t seen any yet.

Actually I don’t think the M12 batteries are heavier than Bosch. At least the 3 cell stem batteries appear to be the same weight after doing a quick search (~180 grams). I must have seen specs for the 6 cell.

Perhaps it’s the added rubber overmold adding the extra weight. The 5ah battery in Milwaukee is 720 grams, Dewalt is 620 grams, and from a tool comparison Makitas is 615 grams. The links are long so I won’t post them (easily found searching). See the official Milwaukee and Dewalt websites. I couldn’t find official Makita figures.

Flexvolt, I haven’t looked. They’d certainly be heavy! I think sparky channel has weighed them from memory.

So with 4.0 ah battery the Mikita XDT09 weight in at 3 lbs 5.6oz while the Milwaukee 2753 weight in at 3 lbs 13oz. So it does look like the Milwaukee one is slightly heavier. Obviously that’s just one tool and battery pairing.

As others have mentioned I’ll reiterate again; Milwaukee purposefully worked to include current customers by ensuring forward and backward battery compatibility for their latest offering. This to me is really good of them, after all they are in the business of not just gaining new but keeping current customers/users and this type of effort is how they will do it. When I did my research some years back to determine which company/system I would invest my own hard earned money into I quickly realized there were only a few “leaders” within the top cordless tool industry, I narrowed my focus down to the “big” three I’ll call them. They are; DeWalt, Makita, and Milwaukee. Over the time I did my research I saw tool advancements by each company that pushed into new capabilities and advanced beyond current power/runtimes. Investing in any one of these companies will surely allow one to be well supported in the present and future. Now we are entering into a new battery capacity competition as the industry moves away from the now standard 18650 cell to the 20700 or 21700 cells. Currently the range of mAh for each size is as follows: 18650=1500-3600mAh, 20700=3000-4000mAh, & 21700=4200-4800mAh These latest cells offer more runtime and much lower heat loss both big factors in whether or not cordless tools can truly be the standalone tool set for many professionals and DIYers alike. DeWalt came out first using the 20700 cell and created the “FlexVolt” battery system and clearly jumped to the top of the heap in power and capacity, Makita and Bosch have also jumped in with their own 20700 celled batteries but this size battery cell cannot achieve what the 21700 can in regards to their capable mAh capacity. Now Milwaukee has entered the fray with their very own 21700 celled High Output Batteries and introduced tools that can extract the very most from these new most capable batteries and seem to have leap into the front. For the consumer it is a win/win. As each of these companies compete for our business they continue to produce better and better tools and everyone tied to any one of these companies continues to benefit. While the leap from 18650 cells to 20700 is quite large there is another advancement to be gained going from 20700 to the latest 21700 which is how Milwaukee may have been able to make just a bit more gains than the others at this point but rest assured it won’t last long. For now, it appears Milwaukee has achieved something truly special and should be complimented for doing it without compromising either forward or backward compatibility, the now most importantly for me, the thousands of dollars I have invested continues to be completely viable long into the future and that gives me much welcome comfort.

I’m not really sure Milwaukee should get the credit for achieving something truly special. It looks as though they simply copied Metabo.

Metabo were the first to adopt 20700 cells, high amp draw, and special conductors in their LiHD batteries. They announced bigger 21700 cells a month or two ago. LiHD has been around for years now. Metabo offers full battery compatibility (but additionally X2 18V for 36V). They have an almost identical approach. You could say that Metabo set the new bigger cell standard for the industry.

It’s all good in the end. Copy or not, they all do it, and the industry benefits.

Two things Metabo doesn’t carry the breadth of tools the big three do, so they’re not really in the same category. Decent tools but eh. Milwaukee owns the patent on high amperage Lithium Ion battery packs so exactly who is copying who?

Your investment of 1000’s of dollars would have been viable without this new battery technology by Milwaukee. It’s not like your old tools all of sudden got newer. It’s great that they are adding new tools and updated more powerful batteries. Milwaukee and Dewalt should spend some time creating more powerful compact batteries for all their existing tools.

It sure is, but my investment in the tools I own and any new ones I purchase will also be fully viable which was my point. I can purchase the new 9″ grinder Milwaukee just introduced and still slide one of my 5.0Ah or 9.0Ah batteries into it and go to work, that’s my point. With the DeWalt FlexVolt system you must buy into the new battery system in order to have that capability which means you have to spend more than what the “bare tool” will cost. Once you’ve made the leap to flexvolt you will have two types of batteries in which some only work with certain tools etc.. just one less thing to have to deal with. For me I appreciate the method Milwaukee used to ensure their current customers had and retained that flexibility, just seems to make a lot of sense for the consumer.

I got home and used my flexvolt table saw two days after I pushed some 2×4’s through the m18 table saw and if my memory serves me correctly the fuel f lt more powerful. I won’t be able to say until they are side by side for sure.

Nobody prints the weight of the batteries on the packaging and I think it’s the same with the tools. I remember when flexvolt first came out and I had to go to HD for some lumber and when I picked up the flexvolt circ saw I was like holy shit this thing is heavy. I think it was a 60v 6ah battery that was in it. Now they have gotten bigger and heavier which means that they are becoming more inconvenient which is the reason all this cordless shit took off in the first place. Everybody was pissin & moaning about how corded tools were so inconvenient. So boom! The take off like a rocket and everyone is buying all these cordless tools and they think it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread. So now we have tools that are more powerful than corded tools, holy shit we no longer have to use our corded tools ever again. But there’s a catch to these tools and batteries that they ain’t never going to tell you about. The runtime and how much power the tools draw from the battery depends on what materials you’re working and how efficient that tool will operate at that particular time. I love my cordless tools ,especially my nail guns and saws and I use them on a daily basis with all different types of batteries and the amphours are all different. But the one thing that my tools and batteries lack and will never be able to match is the continuous consistent source of power that an outlet provides. Whether my cordless tool is twice as powerful or if the battery has 36 amphours, it cannot provide a continuous consistent power supply for my tools. This is the very reason why we use Tesla’s method to power everything instead of Edison’s. Every time I squeeze the button on my corded saw, the amps and voltage are exactly the same each time I use it to cut something. Every time I squeeze the button on my cordless saw, the amps and voltage decrease each time I use it to cut something. The same principle applies to all corded and cordless tools. This is where a battery will always come up short no matter what voltage or the amount amphours it has or how high its output is. And like I said, I love my cordless tools, but I am fully aware that the power is continually consistent whether I’m cutting lumber, concrete, metal, or whatever material that I’m working when I use my corded tools, which is not the case with my cordless tools which have produced inferior results when faced against tough materials. Well now it’s almost getting to the point where if they get any bigger and continue to increase the weight of the batteries, nevermind the tools, then battery powered tools are going to be more of a nuisance than the cord ever was because the inconvenience of having trip hazards is not nearly as bad as getting fatigued from using heavy tools.

There are plenty of reviews out there that provide the weight of the tool with the kitted battery to gauge the overall weight. I think the weight (compared to the corded versions) is pretty much on par though you can certainly find examples of some that are heavier while others are about the same. I don’t think anyone should expect that the tool alone will be much lighter than the corded version if they expect the same performance, yet many of the MFR’s have been able to do it and provide a tool with battery that is within 1/2 a pound and in some cases even lighter than the corded version. There is still some compromise necessary to get to cordless freedom and one of them may be a slightly heavier tool though certainly not the case in every tool type. The cost of purchasing new extension cords when they get damaged is eliminated. The loss of workers due to injury from tripping over them is virtually eliminated. The time to setup and string a cord to the location of work then break it down when your done is eliminated. Just saying that there are advantages and disadvantages and each person/company/crew needs to decide what works best for them.

Some good points. Everything in life is a compromise. Picking the right tool for the job involves decision making that considers those compromises. OSHA extension cord rules – and just common sense suggest that cordless tools offer some advantages – especially when working at elevation on roofs, staging or ladders – and in wet environments where stringing extension cords would pose a hazard. What does get silly is when we expect that a cordless (or even portable corded) tool can do a job that requires a larger piece of construction equipment – and then complain that the tool is wimpy. If you need a hoe ram – then a cordless rotohammer will not do.

This was the best NPS Milwaukee has had in several years in my opinion. I only wish they had figured out how make a full size 10″ table saw. Honestly, I think they have the technology now but for whatever reason chose not to go full size. I wonder why that is.

I think if they employ the worm drive type arrangement in the new Skilsaw jobsite units they can gain a bit more torque with the same type of motor and I agree they got to be able to or awfully close to being able to push out a 10″ version, for now I’ll wait and see.

Absolutely. Milwaukee isn’t automatically king of the hill, just like Dewalt wasn’t when they came out with FlexVolt. The new M18 technology simply gives them a general competitive lead. But there are reasons to go with Dewalt. Both brands have non-overlapping advantages and unique tool offerings, making it quite difficult to automatically recommend one over the other.

When FlexVolt came out, the new tools and batteries had an edge over Milwaukee. Now, Milwaukee’s new tech raises their M18 platform up a few notches. It’s going to be like this for the next few years, until things plateau.

Since you’re starting with a miter saw, I think Milwaukee has the advantage. Dewalt’s is great, but I prefer Milwaukee when it comes to 7-1/4″ saws. amd you mentioned not wanting to go with more than 1 battery. If you are, Dewalt’s 120V Max 12″ sliding saw is simply fantastic.

Milwaukee’s new M18 table saw looks like it could be better than Dewalt’s FlexVolt saw. But FlexVolt has a cordless air compressor. Milwaukee has a fantastic new 3-in-1 backpack/hanging vac.

But also, as a home enthusiast, aggressive kit pricing and promos could make it possible to buy into both systems if you wanted to.

I really don’t, know what I would do if faced with a Dewalt vs. Milwaukee decision these days.

Before cordless you would cherry pick from what you thought suited you best. It might have been Porter Cable for sanders and planers, porter Cable and Bosch for routers, Skil for circular saws, Milwaukee for reciprocating saws, Bosch for jig saws and so on. Wanting to have fewer batteries makes it more difficult with cordless. If you have a specific need that one manufacturer has an exclusive on – then you might be in a pickle if they don’t have good offerings across their whole lineup. When we went with Makita 18V LXT tools – they had a few items (like concrete vibrators) that seemed exclusive to them – and they had a more complete lineup at the time than either Dewalt or Milwaukee. When we wanted more compact tools for our installers and the cabinet business – the M12 lineup seemed to be dominating. When we wanted some trade specific tools for our plumbing business – M12 and M18 – had the lead. If I and my partners were doing it all over today who knows.

BTW – getting worked up over purely brand loyalty always seemed a bit foolish to me. These are only tools – not family members – and I reserve emotions like love for the latter. We can also get the job done with having less than best-in-class for every tool in the shop or on the trucks. Getting caught up in a constant churn of replacing perfectly serviceable older tools with new better ones – without some cost-benefit analysis – is perhaps what tools manufacturers and merchandisers would have us do. But as a practical matter we should be a bit more analytical in our tool buying. To that end, we looked to replace when tools wore out – or when new tools offered the potential for significant increases in productivity, cost reduction, enhanced safety or improved quality of work.

Thank you both for the replies, it is much appreciated. I noticed I did not articulate my goals correctly. I stated 1 Battery Design, which is incorrect. I meant, I only want to buy 1 brand of battery. Teacher pay isn’t great, so I would prefer to buy Bare tools, and just keep 2-4 batteries. So I am not Brand loyal, I am battery loyal.

I can deal with the best drill and the 3rd best saw (or vice versa), to stay with 1 battery type. I had been looking at the Dewalt 120V MAX Sliding Miter Saw with Adapter only prior to reading your article. I like the idea of being able to use both A/C and Battery.

Did anyone either in this thread, or with Milwaukee, comment on how one of these new HD HO (or whatever the correct terminology is — the packs w/gray labels) batteries would positively affect the M18 1/2” high torque impact vs the XC 5.0 pack I use now, besides longer run time? If I could get measurably more torque or IPMs from that impact wrench, it might be worth buying one of these spendy new batts! (Unrelatedly, it would be super if there was a duplicate “reply” box at the TOP of the thread, to save one from scrolling forever in huge threads…)

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