or desperate. A job is a job, you can't really get turned away if you're anything approaching a respectable human being, and it can get you the hell out of a bad place in a hurry, be it a ghetto, abusive home, even away from impending legal punishment in some circumstances etc.

or simply unaware of the news/politics of the times. Newsflash: Not everyone watches the news and reads the blogs and everything else it takes to be an armchair expert.

the_rhino:He signed up for it, no sympathy. This isn't Vietnam, he wasn't drafted.

/just getting it out of the way

I'll take the troll bait.

Are you implying that because we willing chose to serve in the Armed Forces we should somehow be immune to challenges and illnesses that might result? Are you saying that, because we volunteered, the decisions of those in Washington to place us in questionable situations requiring questionable responses to maintain our own safety shouldn't have an impact on our psyche. Perhaps you are suggesting that we are taught to maintain focus in terrible situations and to rely on training first, rather than emotion. What do you think happens to those bottled-up emotions? For some people, like Mr. Somers, they never vanish.

JoanHaus:Tell you one thing: if you know ANYONE who is foolish enough to consider voluntarily signing up for military service, slap it the hell out of them. Disadvantaged kids on the streets who are choosing between gang life, and the military? Seriously, choose the gangs. You're dead, either way, but you've got better odds on the street. Make money, get out of the game while you can, move away.

If in some smothering dreams you too could paceBehind the wagon that we flung him in,And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;If you could hear, at every jolt, the bloodCome gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cudOf vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--My friend, you would not tell with such high zestTo children ardent for some desperate glory,The old Lie: Dulce et decorum estPro patria mori.-- Wilfred Owen, died 4 Nov 1918; the war ended a week later

STRYPERSWINE:whatshisname: STRYPERSWINE: Sucks that Saddam Hussein started a war and then refused to comply with the cease-fire after losing.

Getting this in before people start blaming Bush for Saddam's actions and inactions.

You must be drunk

I just remember what happened. It wasn't that long ago.

So do I. I remember your relentless war hawkishness. I'm also aware that only Bush and his fellow Repugs like you were concerned about a few irrelevent UN regulations dating from 1991 that no intelligent person would think would be worth dying for, let alone 4,000 Americans dying for (not to mention $2 billion down the drain).

Was the war worth your rabid hawkishness? Good return on investment? If you had to do it all over again, would you still rabidly demand ground invasion, like you did in 2003?

Because given that we (those of us who debated you in 2002 and 2003 before the invasion) were all telling you that 93% of Saddam's WMD's had been accounted for, any remaining would be well past their shelf-life, I can certainly say that I am 100% vindicated by the disgustingly useless and worthless war that followed, and war hawks like you failed the moral test of a generation. You continue to have the sticky blood of 4,000 Americans on your hands.

error 303:but a part of me still feels that suicide is (99.999% of the time) not the answer.

The issue with understanding the mind of a suicide is the rest of us, even if we have contemplated or attempted suicide, are not dead. Quite easy to say the answer is not suicide when we are not of the mindset which did claim our own life. Not a disagreement with you, but I think we would be better served by understanding this is someone working against eons of self-preservation instinct rather than simply lack of recognition of better outlets.

For a non-military example of a man most of us should admire, Stephen Fry recently attempted suicide and was only saved by a producer stumbling upon him unconscious. Not sure how much better the world could become for him, and he readily acknowledges an utter lack of rationale. This man, Daniel Somers, appears to have a similar thought process.

I'm just saying you become a whisper in the wind unless you have hard evidence when you are arguing with people that believe that a dinosaur riding Jesus wants them to kill everything that ain't right by their reasoning.These are ignorant birthers that demand physical evidence.Think of how hard it would be to convince you that your whole ideology was a shell game sold to you by a bunch of carnies that you, your father, and your grandfather all voted into office.reality isn't palatable for middle america so they turn up the volume and pull down the shades, hoping that praying will make everything o.k.

bismark189:Just curious... he mentions the issues he's had for "20 years", but he died at 30..

Did he enlist at 10?

/braces for the flames

He was implying that the government has spent the last 20 years denying the existence of and refusing to adequately treat PTSD and widespread traumatic brain injury to soldiers involved in military operations from the first Gulf War onward. The phrasing was a little confusing, but not that hard to parse.

or desperate. A job is a job, you can't really get turned away if you're anything approaching a respectable human being, and it can get you the hell out of a bad place in a hurry, be it a ghetto, abusive home, even away from impending legal punishment in some circumstances etc.

or simply unaware of the news/politics of the times. Newsflash: Not everyone watches the news and reads the blogs and everything else it takes to be an armchair expert.

You don't need to be an armchair expert to have known that Iraq was wrong. If you believed that joining up to fight Saddam was right, you were either duped by the propaganda or were too dumb to see it for what it was. And you were let down by the society that raised you.

I will grant desperation, and the failing economy certainly didn't hurt enrollment numbers.

bismark189:Just curious... he mentions the issues he's had for "20 years", but he died at 30..

Did he enlist at 10?

/braces for the flames

Read it more carefully. "Beyond that, there are the host of physical illnesses that have struck me down again and again, for which they also offer no help. There might be some progress by now if they had not spent nearly twenty years denying the illness that I and so many others were exposed to."

I believe he's referring to Gulf War syndrome. I wasn't aware that Operation Iraqi Freedom vets were also suffering from that, but apparently they are.

Corn_Fed:You continue to have the sticky blood of 4,000 Americans on your hands.

Obama promised in 2008 to have all combat brigades out of Iraq in 16 months. You and the other liberals need to wash the blood off your own hands before calling out anyone else, especially after electing this fool for a second term.

DeathByGeekSquad:I like how he references being abandoned by those who took the easy way out, and then takes the easy way out. I have no sympathy for anyone who takes their own life. I've known people who've succeeded, known folks who've failed. I've seen the support systems, experienced the support systems, and know that if you truly want help, there is always someone willing.

OgreMagi:Because some people seem to forget that when it comes down to it, the president is in charge of the military. He could, with a single command, put a stop to the abuse of our soldiers by "the system".

Because Obama is always at fault for things that have happened since forever.

or desperate. A job is a job, you can't really get turned away if you're anything approaching a respectable human being, and it can get you the hell out of a bad place in a hurry, be it a ghetto, abusive home, even away from impending legal punishment in some circumstances etc.

or simply unaware of the news/politics of the times. Newsflash: Not everyone watches the news and reads the blogs and everything else it takes to be an armchair expert.

You don't need to be an armchair expert to have known that Iraq was wrong. If you believed that joining up to fight Saddam was right, you were either duped by the propaganda or were too dumb to see it for what it was. And you were let down by the society that raised you.

I will grant desperation, and the failing economy certainly didn't hurt enrollment numbers.

Postscript: Those that signed up out of desperation have made this country worse. They have joined the government machine that exists to exploit the poor, desperate, and ignorant to feed the egos of politicians. They participate in actions that increase global suffering and increase hate of Americans. They make the world a more unsafe place for their own countrymen.

OgreMagi: He could, with a single command, put a stop to the abuse of our soldiers by "the system".

Can I please get directions to the dream world you live in?

It's not that simple when you're dealing with the middle management that is military senior NCOs and a-hole officers. And I say this from experience and actually liking *some* of the ones I worked for.

inntheory:OgreMagi: Because some people seem to forget that when it comes down to it, the president is in charge of the military. He could, with a single command, put a stop to the abuse of our soldiers by "the system".

Because Obama is always at fault for things that have happened since forever.

WhoopAssWayne:Corn_Fed: You continue to have the sticky blood of 4,000 Americans on your hands.

Obama promised in 2008 to have all combat brigades out of Iraq in 16 months. You and the other liberals need to wash the blood off your own hands before calling out anyone else, especially after electing this fool for a second term.

Go to hell, war supporter.

You filth started the dumbest war in American history, and now you whine because Obama couldn't end it fast enough?

I know mental health diagnoses werent what they are now (but otoh neither was mental health care...), but how does this compare to soldiers returning from WWII? I know Iraq/Afghanistan deployment has been around 2 million soldiers total, and WWII was closer to 15, was there a comparable rate of suicide among those returning soldiers and its just never ever talked about at all? I know suicide was high among returning Vietnam Vets, but not like today where more soldiers have killed themselves than died in combat. What the hell has changed?

It is hard to listen to the constant barrage of bs the radio talking heads spout when somehow it seems to ignore beyond the hokey patriotism the peoples lives effected, be it the soldiers we send to die or the people we intend to displace or kill for our economic interests.

AverageAmericanGuy:AverageAmericanGuy: omeganuepsilon: AverageAmericanGuy: was a dupe or an idiot.

or desperate. A job is a job, you can't really get turned away if you're anything approaching a respectable human being, and it can get you the hell out of a bad place in a hurry, be it a ghetto, abusive home, even away from impending legal punishment in some circumstances etc.

or simply unaware of the news/politics of the times. Newsflash: Not everyone watches the news and reads the blogs and everything else it takes to be an armchair expert.

You don't need to be an armchair expert to have known that Iraq was wrong. If you believed that joining up to fight Saddam was right, you were either duped by the propaganda or were too dumb to see it for what it was. And you were let down by the society that raised you.

I will grant desperation, and the failing economy certainly didn't hurt enrollment numbers.

Postscript: Those that signed up out of desperation have made this country worse. They have joined the government machine that exists to exploit the poor, desperate, and ignorant to feed the egos of politicians. They participate in actions that increase global suffering and increase hate of Americans. They make the world a more unsafe place for their own countrymen.

So let's cut funding for education. In fact, let's just cut the entire department of education.Ban unions, too.And eliminate the USDADeregulate Cut welfare

Cyno01:I know mental health diagnoses werent what they are now (but otoh neither was mental health care...), but how does this compare to soldiers returning from WWII? I know Iraq/Afghanistan deployment has been around 2 million soldiers total, and WWII was closer to 15, was there a comparable rate of suicide among those returning soldiers and its just never ever talked about at all? I know suicide was high among returning Vietnam Vets, but not like today where more soldiers have killed themselves than died in combat. What the hell has changed?

Not sure, but has close combat gotten more intense, or more gruesome with technology?

I will say he's not without his demons, but in many area's, he is just a figurehead. Most presidents are. You can't even class them as "leaders" any more. The get to pick a cause or three to rally the people towards, and that's pretty much the extent of their power. Both Bushes picked their things, fairly obviously selfish things. Clinton picked his, the Lewinski and the economy. Obama got his healthcare and some economic pushes.

Still kind of a lazy shiat in comparison, granted. But he's also the most recent, meaning that if the position declines in power over time, he''s had the least. He answers for a lot, as in glorified Public Relations. This guy is ALWAYS on TV and making speeches to the people.

Personally, I think our government is beyond all repair. We call it a democracy and we pretend to have two parties, but we really don't have either, not when you get down to it. We have a side show three ring circus.

Corn_Fed:STRYPERSWINE: whatshisname: STRYPERSWINE: Sucks that Saddam Hussein started a war and then refused to comply with the cease-fire after losing.

Getting this in before people start blaming Bush for Saddam's actions and inactions.

You must be drunk

I just remember what happened. It wasn't that long ago.

So do I. I remember your relentless war hawkishness. I'm also aware that only Bush and his fellow Repugs like you were concerned about a few irrelevent UN regulations dating from 1991 that no intelligent person would think would be worth dying for, let alone 4,000 Americans dying for (not to mention $2 billion down the drain).

Was the war worth your rabid hawkishness? Good return on investment? If you had to do it all over again, would you still rabidly demand ground invasion, like you did in 2003?

Because given that we (those of us who debated you in 2002 and 2003 before the invasion) were all telling you that 93% of Saddam's WMD's had been accounted for, any remaining would be well past their shelf-life, I can certainly say that I am 100% vindicated by the disgustingly useless and worthless war that followed, and war hawks like you failed the moral test of a generation. You continue to have the sticky blood of 4,000 Americans on your hands.

First of all, great memory. Secondly, you will always lose with this simple yes or no question: did Saddam fully and immediately comply?

The answer is no, of course. Removing hindsight from the equation, knowing what we knew then, we could not allow that situation to continue. In a post-9/11 world, we could not allow an enemy that we already defeated to not account for the weapons that he was supposed to have destroyed and provided proof of their destruction. We gave him several opportunities and he chose poorly each time. SADDAM did that. And now we're seeing his WMDs at work in Syria, as many suspected all along. Speaking of vindication.

My dad was in Vietnam...I never knew any details of what he did until just a few days before he died.

War is not a pretty thing folks. And to expect soldiers to just assimilate back into society after seeing and doing things that any ordinary citizen can not imagine is ridiculously irresponsible.

I asked for someone (because I knew he wouldn't give them to me) to get "20 rules of wisdom" from him about 2 years before he died. I know it's fark and some may ridicule some of them, but whatever...some are worth sharing:

1 Live for the day.

2 Never get married.

3 If somebody hits you go find a 2X4 and hit him back. He'll never hit you again.

4 Stay in school and get a good education.

5 Be good to your mother.

6 Be good to animals.

7 - Never let people know how really smart you are. Better to act dumb and be smart then to be dumb and act smart

8 - Get a job that you like. If you don't like your job change it until you find a job you do like.

9 The past is the past and you can't change it so just forget about it .

10 Always trust in yourself and you'll never let yourself down.

11 If you can't please yourself you can't please nobody else.

12 Always have a fast car so you can get away.

13 The best friend you can have is yourself.

14 If you are going to lie you better have a good memory.

15 Figure out what you believe in and believe in it for the rest of your life.

16 Always grin - this way people don't know what you are really thinking.

17 Pull your pants up.

18 Never go into the military because all you are doing is fighting for big corporations and politics.