I couldn't see another topic/post on this, so if you know of one please let me know and I'll repost there.

Thanks to everyone who managed to stay silent during the Temple Burn on Sunday. Plenty of stimulus and music and screaming and craziness all week long... when we can collectively stay reverent and silent during the temple burn tis a truly magical experience. Just 1 hour of silence, in a week of constant thumpa!

I have a feeling a large part of the din and disrespect during this year's temple burn was just coming from a lack of information being given to virgin burners. I'm not sure about the art cars because I'd imagine most artcars will have been at a Burning Man before... maybe that's a case of just one car playing music and then other cars hopping on the boat because 'hey, they're doing it.' It would be great if art cars could leave their music off on the approach, let alone around the circle while people are trying to contemplate and reflect whatever they contributed to the Temple that's about to get burned. It's so damn electric and tremendously powerful when silence reigns at the Temple and Temple Burn. Remember 2007 (my first burn) when a wave of joyful laughter emerged from the silence and snaked through the crowd? Tears flowed. A woman screamed out from her gut "MOM!" ... it was one of the most powerful things I've ever experienced. And come on, it's only 1 hour.

It would be amazing if everyone could respect the spiritual and emotional work people are doing at the temple, and leave the lasers in pocket, the "yahoos" unscreamed and the music on pause until the burn is completely over. Think of it as a funeral. Whether it's a letting go of someone who's died, or a joyous letting go of someone you've been mourning for a long time, or trying to let go of some thing in yourself that's no longer serving you, letting go of a fear that's haunted you or the fear of moving forward in some area of your life... letting go can be difficult and the burning of all our contributions can be a big collective letting go that gives us more power to do so than we feel have just on our own. At least that's my experience.

Rather than be a totally whiney post I'm trying to think of some potential solutions. Got any ideas to add to the list?~~When you meet a virgin burner, amongst the conversation mention the temple burn being a sacred and reverent affair where silence is encouraged to allow others the mental space to process their emotions. However you want to communicate it... in the touchy feely way above / a simple "shut the fuck up at the temple burn" / whatehaveyou ~~What about having singing bowls played simultaneously at every 15 minute mark around the burn perimeter when the lights go out? Anyone who experienced the Earth Harp or the gamelan played at the temple this year knows music can get you in the zone and calm your mind. Singing bowls ring out pretty loudly once they get going so I feel like that would work to signal the start of a period of silence.~~if you hear someone yahooing and you want them to be quiet, or someone flicking lasers on the temple and you want them to stop, or an art car blasting dubstep in the minutes before the burn... don't yell "Shut the fuck up" or "Turn off that fucking laser"... find them and simple ask them to stop and tell them why it's important to you... I imagine that's probably a more effective method.

Having no significance attached to the temple burn this year, we left that day, during the morning. If people really don't care that much to give the temple burn some reverence, they ought to just leave early and spare themselves the 7+ hour line wait leaving the playa.

"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Why? So we can all conform to your idea of what is proper? Follow the social norm?

Bring out your dead!

Fact is, we get this topic every year and it has been flogged to death. All the folks at the temple burn just ain't gonna follow some mythical agenda just because a portion of the population has projected some sort of spiritual relevance on the event.

Here is an equally good solution: Just accept that it won't be a funeral pyre for all participants and wear earplugs. Much easier and non-confrontational. Change yourself !

Token wrote:Why? So we can all conform to your idea of what is proper? Follow the social norm?

Bring out your dead!

Fact is, we get this topic every year and it has been flogged to death. All the folks at the temple burn just ain't gonna follow some mythical agenda just because a portion of the population has projected some sort of spiritual relevance on the event.

Here is an equally good solution: Just accept that it won't be a funeral pyre for all participants and wear earplugs. Much easier and non-confrontational. Change yourself !

Sentiments like the above are why I leave early Sunday. Fuck the Temple, I'm fucking embarrassed to be associated with or indirectly funding this tasteless hippie-religious abomination. Plus, it was ugly as fuck this year. Isn't there something in the Ten Principles mandating separation of Church and City?

Bob wrote:Sentiments like the above are why I leave early Sunday. Fuck the Temple, I'm fucking embarrassed to be associated with or indirectly funding this tasteless hippie-religious abomination. Plus, it was ugly as fuck this year. Isn't there something in the Ten Principles mandating separation of Church and City?

Ugly temple? That thing rivals the temple of 2004. Maybe you were expecting a Dairy Queen or something?

As for silence, man, hearing that mammoth structure crackle and whoosh in silence was fucking awesome to even an atheist like myself!

Bob wrote:Sentiments like the above are why I leave early Sunday. Fuck the Temple, I'm fucking embarrassed to be associated with or indirectly funding this tasteless hippie-religious abomination. Plus, it was ugly as fuck this year. Isn't there something in the Ten Principles mandating separation of Church and City?

You have a week of partying your asses off. You have a week of debauchery, fun, frolicking, noise, and being the biggest assholes or the sweetest cherubs the planet has ever experienced. You have a week and 10,000 places to do exactly what pleases you.

What pleases _some_ people is to have an hour of silence at one small spot on the planet.

I am not sure why that should bother you, or why you or anyone feels it is your/their job to ensure it gets fucked up for those others.

If someone who desires an hour of reflective silence were to show up at the Pink Mammoth or Distrikt and demand silence and reflection, MAYBE you'd have a point. The purpose of the Temple (I mean, look at its name, FFS!) is that reflective, prayerful experience. It isn't denomination-specific. Even atheists can at least quietly reflect on the beauty of the building (or quietly let themselves feel disgust at expressions of spirituality), but, geez, does it really cause you harm to let others do what they wish or need?

BMan has at its core an aura of respect for others, giving to others and participating meaningfully. Go retch and kvetch about pseudo-hippy spirituality somewhere else. Do it here. But at the Temple try to remember it isn't all about you and your beliefs. Avoid the Temple. Drop some E or whatever and bash your naked selves around at one of the thousands of continuous parties instead. Go celebrate a burn barrel. Flame jet a mutant vehicle off in a different space. Do what _you_ need to do someplace else, and let the Temple alone.

Is it really that big a deal for you?

manamaddy: good suggestions. I do think letting people who don't know better know the expectations or at least understand the meaning may help in some small way, but I suspect a large part of the disrespect did not come from virgins like me (I did not attend the Temple Burn, but, even as a virgin, I understood what it means and would have been sad to experience the disrespect), but came from people who enjoy disrupting spiritual things because they disagree with others' right to spirituality and expression thereof. People like one or two of the responders in this thread. Because _they_ have no use for it, no one else should experience it.

My biggest problem with people at the Temple Burn this year was the DPW crew sitting on top of their scissors lifts. When asked to quiet down, one of the DPW girls replied, "Suck a dick whitey!" Dissapointment is not even a description of how I felt. I feel that DPW of all people should understand that this is a time to be chill and quiet. Shoot, you'd think that they would enjoy some downtime after the weeks/months that they have spent on the playa. Temple silence is a meaningful thing to me and I am an atheist. The temple at BM is the closest that I get to spirituality. Have some respect people, please.

Bob wrote:Sentiments like the above are why I leave early Sunday. Fuck the Temple, I'm fucking embarrassed to be associated with or indirectly funding this tasteless hippie-religious abomination. Plus, it was ugly as fuck this year. Isn't there something in the Ten Principles mandating separation of Church and City?

I'm embarrassed you consider yourself a Burner.

Bob goes to the burn; I don't think I've ever heard him say that he considers himself a burner.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

changoloco wrote:My biggest problem with people at the Temple Burn this year was the DPW crew sitting on top of their scissors lifts. When asked to quiet down, one of the DPW girls replied, "Suck a dick whitey!" Dissapointment is not even a description of how I felt. I feel that DPW of all people should understand that this is a time to be chill and quiet. Shoot, you'd think that they would enjoy some downtime after the weeks/months that they have spent on the playa. Temple silence is a meaningful thing to me and I am an atheist. The temple at BM is the closest that I get to spirituality. Have some respect people, please.

I was standing right next to the scissor lift while the barfly said that. She was mighty quiet when the lift came down.....and if she was stupid enough to keep spouting when she came down, there were more than a few people prepared to administer a numbing correction to that idiot.

The Temple has always been the epicenter of the burn for me. One just has to walk through the Temple late in the week to understand the gravity of what is going on there. I believe it to be the central element of the event. The man has lost his symbolism as far as I'm concerned. He's almost irrelevant. I could skip Saturday and not miss it. It's the frat boy yahoo burn while the temple is a profound experience for those who have experienced a loss.

Bottom line, get your yelling and screaming out at the Man but respect the Temple. Everyone knows what each burn is about so let's get real and give each one the type of respect that it deserves.

[quote="$tormy"][quote="changoloco"]The Temple has always been the epicenter of the burn for me. One just has to walk through the Temple late in the week to understand the gravity of what is going on there. I believe it to be the central element of the event. The man has lost his symbolism as far as I'm concerned. He's almost irrelevant. I could skip Saturday and not miss it. It's the frat boy yahoo burn while the temple is a profound experience for those who have experienced a loss.

Bottom line, get your yelling and screaming out at the Man but respect the Temple. Everyone knows what each burn is about so let's get real and give each one the type of respect that it deserves.[/quote]

Yeah, kinda. I mean, everyone brings to it what they need to bring, takes from it what they need to take. That's what I got, from talking to long-time burners, from reading copious amounts of BMan material, and finally from participating myself. So there will always be, as someone up there mentioned although I'm translating his/her words into my own, some group of dickwads needing to "express" their "inner shithead" at the Temple Burn, thus taking away something from those who rely on reverence.

The OP made a good point in that if we can educate a few more with what we feel the Temple Burn ought to be (not make rules, btw. Stating a preference is not the same as making a rule, hello.) then we can move a little closer to having that element of the event provide what so many people need for it to provide.

I disagree that the Man is irrelevant. I respect your view, Stormy, but believe that the Man's burn was never meant to be something for the quiet spiritualist, but was a radical artistic expression. For so many it is an expression of an animal, tribal urge. It symbolizes something destructive within our souls, or within humanity itself. Or possibly a rebirth. Or something else entirely -- a love of pyromania. It fills a need and has a great deal of relevance. Ditto the burning of the other art installations.

I do agree the Temple burning has held a different significance apart from the animal/tribal/destructive instinct. That's why what you say, and what the OP said, _ought_ to be understood and respected rather than derided and dismissed. If the dude who goes there just to get his rocks off or whatever can't understand that it isn't all about him, well, at least he's only one person instead of 100. If we can get the other 99 to respect that other people have needs to be met, then we succeed. One or two loud egotists? Pffft. A crying baby is more distressing than those jerkwads.

$tormy wrote:...........I was standing right next to the scissor lift while the barfly said that. She was mighty quiet when the lift came down.....and if she was stupid enough to keep spouting when she came down, there were more than a few people prepared to administer a numbing correction to that idiot.

The Temple has always been the epicenter of the burn for me. One just has to walk through the Temple late in the week to understand the gravity of what is going on there. I believe it to be the central element of the event. The man has lost his symbolism as far as I'm concerned. He's almost irrelevant. I could skip Saturday and not miss it. It's the frat boy yahoo burn while the temple is a profound experience for those who have experienced a loss.

Bottom line, get your yelling and screaming out at the Man but respect the Temple. Everyone knows what each burn is about so let's get real and give each one the type of respect that it deserves.

$tormy

With the greatest respect my friend I find it kind of interesting that you seem to threaten violence above. Here is a story I like to tell. The Modoc trive of indians did not get along with the Pit River or Klamath Tribes. As a matter of fact they hated each other. But if these tribes should happen to see each other at a place called Medicine Lake, they would wave. You don't spill blood at a place like that. Also to express the will to hurt someone at a Temple Burn also sounds counter productive. Just food for thought

changoloco wrote:My biggest problem with people at the Temple Burn this year was the DPW crew sitting on top of their scissors lifts. When asked to quiet down, one of the DPW girls replied, "Suck a dick whitey!" Dissapointment is not even a description of how I felt. I feel that DPW of all people should understand that this is a time to be chill and quiet. Shoot, you'd think that they would enjoy some downtime after the weeks/months that they have spent on the playa. Temple silence is a meaningful thing to me and I am an atheist. The temple at BM is the closest that I get to spirituality. Have some respect people, please.

I respect what the DPW do every year to set up the city, but almost everyone of them I've come across are total self-righteous assholes. Truly.

That said, expecting everyone to remain quiet during the temple burn (or expecting a group of more than 5 people to do the same thing for more than 30 seconds on the playa) is futile. I'm genuinely and pleasantly surprised that people, for the most part, remain fairly quiet in the temple during the week. As others have said, bring to it what you need and let others do the same.

changoloco wrote:My biggest problem with people at the Temple Burn this year was the DPW crew sitting on top of their scissors lifts. When asked to quiet down, one of the DPW girls replied, "Suck a dick whitey!" Dissapointment is not even a description of how I felt. I feel that DPW of all people should understand that this is a time to be chill and quiet. Shoot, you'd think that they would enjoy some downtime after the weeks/months that they have spent on the playa. Temple silence is a meaningful thing to me and I am an atheist. The temple at BM is the closest that I get to spirituality. Have some respect people, please.

I was standing right next to the scissor lift while the barfly said that. She was mighty quiet when the lift came down.....and if she was stupid enough to keep spouting when she came down, there were more than a few people prepared to administer a numbing correction to that idiot.

The Temple has always been the epicenter of the burn for me. One just has to walk through the Temple late in the week to understand the gravity of what is going on there. I believe it to be the central element of the event. The man has lost his symbolism as far as I'm concerned. He's almost irrelevant. I could skip Saturday and not miss it. It's the frat boy yahoo burn while the temple is a profound experience for those who have experienced a loss.

Bottom line, get your yelling and screaming out at the Man but respect the Temple. Everyone knows what each burn is about so let's get real and give each one the type of respect that it deserves.

$tormy

We were sitting around there. For the most part, the vast majority of people were quiet but the jackasses on that scissor lift kept on screaming "Yeah bitch!" every five minutes. If you're gonna heckle, at least be creative and witty or something.

When the burn was over, they were trying to get people to clear out the bottom in order to get down. I told them we weren't gonna move because they were cunts, and then my bf shined his FireSword (erm... world's brightest flashlight) in their eyes for a few minutes.

When I croke, I want a note for me placed in the temple.Then the people that placed it raise as much hell as they possible can. All in my name sake..

If you need it your way so bad.. Build and burn your own temple.

Unjohn,

I will be happy to place a note for you, watch the prayers rise in the silence, smoke and flame and then we'll tear the rest down!

To clarify my point a bit, the temple burn is a funeral pyre burn. Walk inside before they board it up. There is no way to misconstrue what is going on there. To verbally disrupt that burn is akin to what Rev. Fred Phelps does at military funerals. Would you stand for a loud asshole at a family member's funeral? I don't think so. It's about those who are going up in flames inside the temple and their loved ones trying to deal with the loss. There are some things the completely blotto 20 something frat burners can't have and this is one. 99.99% of the crowd was completely there and I am very proud of them for it.

$tormy wrote:...........I was standing right next to the scissor lift while the barfly said that. She was mighty quiet when the lift came down.....and if she was stupid enough to keep spouting when she came down, there were more than a few people prepared to administer a numbing correction to that idiot.

The Temple has always been the epicenter of the burn for me. One just has to walk through the Temple late in the week to understand the gravity of what is going on there. I believe it to be the central element of the event. The man has lost his symbolism as far as I'm concerned. He's almost irrelevant. I could skip Saturday and not miss it. It's the frat boy yahoo burn while the temple is a profound experience for those who have experienced a loss.

Bottom line, get your yelling and screaming out at the Man but respect the Temple. Everyone knows what each burn is about so let's get real and give each one the type of respect that it deserves.

$tormy

With the greatest respect my friend I find it kind of interesting that you seem to threaten violence above. Here is a story I like to tell. The Modoc trive of indians did not get along with the Pit River or Klamath Tribes. As a matter of fact they hated each other. But if these tribes should happen to see each other at a place called Medicine Lake, they would wave. You don't spill blood at a place like that. Also to express the will to hurt someone at a Temple Burn also sounds counter productive. Just food for thought

We,

With the utmost respect, if someone was trying to disrupt your funeral I would make sure the disruption was quelled and the sacredness of the moment preserved. Facilitating someone's abhorrent behavior, on principle, in a place like that, is not very respectful to the all people there in pain and process. I am willing to stand for what I believe in and not let the pigs run roughshod over it.

What's up with all the hate and aggression at the temple burn? You can make the temple mean what you want, but some common decency and respect can't really hurt, can it? And I mean, anywhere, anytime, really.

Let me tell you what happened in my corner of the crowd. This story keeps repeating itself every year, btw. Nothing new really. This is almost a tradition. So just FYI, in case you missed it.

Me and my friends arrived at the temple close to 9pm, so not particularly early. We parked our art car way back behind all the big ones and walked towards the crowd around the temple. We picked a place at the back of the crowd, and at the time, pretty much everyone around us was standing, as where we. I prefer it that way. (You can probably tell by now where this is headed Lo and behold, a short while later, more folks had arrived and decided to sit down behind us. Smart move on their part.

Now the 'fun' begins: Guy (or girl, I forgot) asks from the back if everybody could please sit down. Nothing wrong with that. We thankfully declined. Seconds later, the 'sit down' choir got going, getting progressively more angry. It feels really great having an angry mob in your back yelling at you, telling you what to do. So I turn around and and wave my hand in a clear expression of 'no, not gonna happen'. Meanwhile, some people cave in, others keep standing. I, being the tallest one in our group, am singled out for verbal abuse. Fun stuff. So I decide to join in on the action, and yell back "Take off your pants" and "Show us your tits". Once. I think it would be fun if _everybody_ was doing it. But that's just my opinion. So I decided to express that, too.

Unfortunately, the irony was lost on the crowed. I should have expected that, of course. Mobs don't work with the thinking part of the brain. Just a few bullies and a bunch of sheep. Disgusting. Anyway, folks in the crowd now started discussing ways to coerce us, such as shining lights at us, taking our pictures, or pouring drinks over us. Very fucking threatening How about some toothpaste in the hair? Go back to high school and fuck with the little kids, will you?

Ironic aspect: One guy actually told me that I'm the odd one out, and asked me whether I don't want to be liked. I replied that no, I don't give a fuck what he or anyone else thinks about me.

Equally lost was my reference to Nazi Germany. Another fine example off a group letting out their anger at a few scapegoats. (Yes, the consequences were a lot lot worse, but the psychological underpinnings are quite similar.)

One brave fellow stood up, btw, and tried to explain to the crowd that everybody experiences burning man in their own way, and that whole non-interference thing etc. To no avail.

Once the temple caught on fire, everybody was shutting up, finally.

In 2004, the mob actually threw bottles at the 'standers', among which was an elderly burner who could not sit down on the ground for medical reasons. We had tried to inform the mob of that. Of course without any effect. He got hit on the head.

Sure, I could have just left the area. "Wise men don't have the last word" (freely translated) as they say in my home country. I'll probably will, next time. If I remember. But apparently, I don't hold grudges that easily.

So what's going on here? Too much pent up energy that wasn't released? Somebody didn't get laid by that sparklepony of their fancy? Not enough serotonin left from all that E? Maybe we should just blow the temple up with some high explosives and start a bar fight with 50,000. Seems like folks would like that more. Actually, it might be a lot more cleansing that way.

If you want to think of the temple as a funeral, go right ahead. I won't, and will laugh loudly and heartily in the face of anyone that wants to tell me what any burn is about. I've had plenty of emotional experiences at the temple, and what any other person does can't change them. Sorry to those that let others control them.

M*A*S*H 4207th: An army of fun.I don't care what the borg says: feather-wearers will NOT be served in Rosie's Bar.When I ask how many burns, I mean at BRC.

I have a feeling a large part of the din and disrespect during this year's temple burn was just coming from a lack of information being given to virgin burners.

To the OP. Why don't you go fuck yourself with your myopic dictates on how you think others should behave at a time that seeks remembrance and closure for those dead or missing.

Seriously.

Celebrating and remembrance of those who've passed is not always marked by quiet, teary-eyed solemnity and reverent silence.

For some, death can be cause for celebration and should be acted upon appropriately. If I was too loud for you in celebrating my friend's passing from an agonizing death might I suggest you bring your fucking ear plugs the next time.

Frankly, this annual post-event bitch has grown almost as lame as its predictability.

I thought it was a bit ironic that the people who wanted attendees to sit down and be silent were the ones who were making the most obnoxious amounts of noise. There was a man standing a couple rows in front of me and 10-15 people were screaming at him to sit down, calling him names, insulting him, trying to embarrass him, etc. I couldn't help but decide that all of these people were the ones that were making the temple vibe more unpleasant. Maybe the dude had hemorrhoids! Anyway, this conflict seems to be a standard component of the temple burn that seems to be consistent year after year. Just another part of the experience.

Makes me wonder why is it so important for everyone to conform in order for one to have a meaningful moment at the temple burn? Going within can be done in the midst of noise and chaos. I spend my new year's eves at a zen center doing a sitting meditation with the sound of a bell being rung and at midnight the sound of revelers and fireworks serve to enhance the moment. It reminds me that we are human beings all here together on our own paths having our own experiences and I choose this one right now. Regardless of what everyone else is doing.

changoloco wrote:My biggest problem with people at the Temple Burn this year was the DPW crew

I respect what the DPW do every year to set up the city, but almost everyone of them I've come across are total self-righteous assholes. Truly.

I'd hazard a guess that the majority of non-art car noise that happens at temple is from DPW or like minded individuals, not burgins.

I've seen what you're talking about Vargaso, but I've also found that once I actually talk to them, they turn into sweeties. Heck, I had a guy throw a half empty beer at my head, then about an hour later he lent me his portable hard drive so I could copy all his movies and music over to my computer.

It's that their performance art (and all our performance art can be a bit possessing from time to time) is about being gruff and tuff and fuck your burn.

Even though I'm not particularly interested in spending too much time in the DPWasshole, I definitely find their lack of hippie BS to be life savingly refreshing from time to time.

ZaphodBurner wrote:The difference between buying a ticket from a scalper and prostituting yourself for one is, if you suck dick for a ticket and brag about it, burners will still respect you.