Originally posted by David Birchall Just to add a little twist to the discussion. After talking with John Maycock (who rebuilt #963 in the eighties) and John DeLane (who owns it now) it would seem that #963 acquired 19B uprights when it got it's 'first' Ford 289 engine (1963?) and those are the uprights fitted now. John Maycock got the uprights from McKee in the eighties when he recovered all the parts McKee had removed from the car. Are there more 19B uprights?

Has anybody figured out the chassis # of the blue 19 in Alabama in the photo taken by Cynic?

I have this car running a Buick engine for the 63 Players 200 and it is described as a 19B. But for the 1964 edition it had a Ford.

I think the blue 19 in Alabama (the Allan Taylor car?) is the Carveth car. I know there is some debate about the chassis number but there were only three cars fitted with Buicks if I am correct - the Grant car, the Columbosian car and the Carveth car. The Grant car switched to Chevy power around 63/64, the Columbosian car about the same time. But a Buick-engined car was still racing in Oct 64 in the hands of Stan Peterson, which I believe to be the Carveth car...

Does anybody know where the Publicker car went after its first owner? From a process of elimination, I have concluded either Tom Terrell or Dave Causey?

I note also that Charlie Kolb was the co-driver of the Publicker car at Sebring 61 when they practised but blew the engine and he also appears in the ownership chain for the J. Frank Harrison car, just before Fong. Did he ever own the Publicker car?

Also, we haven't mentioned much about the Zweifel and Vogele cars - did they stay in Europe for all their working lives?

IDoes anybody know where the Publicker car went after its first owner? From a process of elimination, I have concluded either Tom Terrell or Dave Causey? ?

The Terrell and Causey cars both were running in the upper MIdwest in 1962 on. First, the Terrell car. I first saw that at the 1962 Road America June Sprints. It had a 2.0 Climax. It was painted white with green stripes. Terrell ran that through '62 and then in 1963 sold it to Doug Thiem, who ran it for the balance of that year. Thiem kept the white but replaced the green stripes with red. After that, I do not know what happened to it.

The Causey car first showed up (to my attention) at the 1962 Road America 500. It was red, with blue plexiglass windscreen and headlight covers. Over the next few years it changed constantly. It was painted silver, then had a Ford V-8 put in place of the 2.5 Climax, then by 1965 was white with blue trim with much modified fenders. After 1965 I do not know what happened to it.

Contrary to a previous posting, these two cars were not the same car as they ran contemporaneously.

The Terrell and Causey cars both were running in the upper MIdwest in 1962 on. First, the Terrell car. I first saw that at the 1962 Road America June Sprints. It had a 2.0 Climax. It was painted white with green stripes. Terrell ran that through '62 and then in 1963 sold it to Doug Thiem, who ran it for the balance of that year. Thiem kept the white but replaced the green stripes with red. After that, I do not know what happened to it.

The Causey car first showed up (to my attention) at the 1962 Road America 500. It was red, with blue plexiglass windscreen and headlight covers. Over the next few years it changed constantly. It was painted silver, then had a Ford V-8 put in place of the 2.5 Climax, then by 1965 was white with blue trim with much modified fenders. After 1965 I do not know what happened to it.

Contrary to a previous posting, these two cars were not the same car as they ran contemporaneously.

The Publicker car was white, but that is a tenuous connection I guess... Does anyone know what colour the Schechter car was? If it was red that might be a bit more interesting! The last appearance I think I have for Causey is Sept 4 1966, Road America 500 although it just says 'Lotus Ford' in the entry list, so could have been a 30 or 40 I suppose...

RA Historian: thanks re the colour reference - does anybody know if Schechter ran any more races in this car?

Vince: that's great, thanks! I had him down for either the Grant car or the Carveth car because of the Buick engine connection. Are you still in contact with him? What would be really interesting would be to find out who he bought it from (e.g. direct from Carveth or an owner in between?) and who he sold it to?

I have Don Stiever in a Buick-engined 19 Jul 28 '63, which is after my last recorded appearance for Carveth in his car and before Peterson's first appearance (which I have at present as Apr 26 1964). It could have been the Grant car but Grant raced it many times afterwards so this is perhaps unlikely (although he could have rented out the drive, I guess).

Originally posted by Michael Oliver It could have been the Grant car but Grant raced it many times afterwards so this is perhaps unlikely (although he could have rented out the drive, I guess).

My understanding is that Grant kept his car for several years before selling it to Jerry Hansen at the end of 1965. Hansen raced it for a while in 1966. It went to Dick Kantrud in 1967 and fron there the trail gets cold.

Michael: Schechter entered his Lotus 19 at Geneva, Florida on November 11-12, 1961. It was probably his first appearance in the car. He was a DNS in the feature after blowing a head gasket in the prelim. Victory went to Huttinger's Lister/Chevy, followed by Chuck Cassel's Porsche RS-61 and Richard Macon's Cooper Monaco. Richard Macon has told me the Porsche was way quicker than his Cooper and he was throwing the tail of the Cooper out all race long and had a ball.

In 1962 Schechter entered his Lotus 19 at the Osceola GP in Florida. I am not sure of the results of that race. Before he acquired the Lotus 19 Schechter was considered a very good Porsche driver. He finished 2nd in the 1960 Sebring 12 hour race in the Brumos RS-60 Porsche. His co-drivers were Bob Holbert and Hal Fowler.
research Willem Oosthoek

Gravity, the Final Chapter. After all the myths about Daniel Sexton Gurney's stationary Lotus 19 crossing the finish line at Daytona in 1962 with the help of gravity, here is a photo showing where gravity actually kicked in. Way past the start/finish line. Having taken the checkered, Dan looks back, waves his arm to alert upcoming traffic to make his intentions clear, and steers down the banking to make it to the infield.photo lent site Willem Oosthoek-research Willem Oosthoek

RA Historian: with the Grant car, I have him racing it approx Oct 62-Nov 65, then to Hansen. I think it is more likely the Don Stiver (got the spelling wrong in my earlier post!) car was the Carveth car, as it was also Buick-engined.

Jerry: thanks for all the info about Schechter, I have not managed to find anything about the Osceola GP in Florida but I guess that was relatively local for him, as he was a native of Miami, ISTR?

Just made contact with Don Stiver, who confirms he drove the Carver car at the Cotati races, July 28th 1963. Apparently, it was a sort of "thanks" for the work he had done in fitting the Buick engine into the car.

Stiver also said that he drove the car the same year at the port of Stockton, CA but I don't know when this would have been - I have asked him for some more details.

Michael: Schechter also drove a Lotus 11 before he drove the Porsche or the Lotus 19. It was White with two Blue stripes. He was from the Miami area. Richard Macon believed his Lotus 11 had a 1500cc FWB engine in it.

My understanding is that Grant kept his car for several years before selling it to Jerry Hansen at the end of 1965. Hansen raced it for a while in 1966. It went to Dick Kantrud in 1967 and fron there the trail gets cold.

I have come across a Lotus 19 (no engine make noted) entered for the 1968 Road America 500, shared by Keith Hardy and C.E. "Chuck" Frederick. It retired after two laps. Do you know anything about this car and its drivers? Perhaps this is the Causey car?

Also, I have come across a Pete Woods from Huntingdon Beach, CA, who entered a Lotus Chevrolet in the '67 SCCA Nationals and the 68 ARRC at Riverside. Maybe this could be the next link in the chain for the ex-Grant/Hansen/Kantrud car?

In the mid eighties I followed up on a lead from Tom Carstens and found a guy who was a musician in an amusement park who had the remains of what he claimed was the Carsten/Grant car. I invited John Maycock to join me in inspecting the remains and we found what seemed to be parts of three different 19s! Certainly some of the parts were from Grant's car including a body section which had a very peculiar scoop that appeared to have been made with the use of a saucepan as a mold....Photos of Grant's car showed this modification. We found numbers of other cars on the parts including the number of the car that Nethercutt owned on the bottom of the driver's seat.

I just exchanged a couple of emails with John and he recalled that we decided it was the Nethercutt car, #955, at the time. Is there any recent history on Lotus 19 #955? And John did take photos but is in the middle of moving and cannot access them....

Norm Namerow Lotus 19 Ford 289 power.Deep maroon with silver hightlights, irrc.(Norm was a stout fellow and very fast.Sadly lost to a heart attack in 1964;the final corner at St. Jovite named for him.)1 image

Originally posted by David Birchall I just exchanged a couple of emails with John and he recalled that we decided it was the Nethercutt car, #955, at the time. Is there any recent history on Lotus 19 #955? And John did take photos but is in the middle of moving and cannot access them....

David, this car was written off in 1964, so there shouldn't be a current owner, unless the wreckage was brought back to life...

I have come across a Lotus 19 (no engine make noted) entered for the 1968 Road America 500, shared by Keith Hardy and C.E. "Chuck" Frederick. It retired after two laps. Do you know anything about this car and its drivers? Perhaps this is the Causey car?

Also, I have come across a Pete Woods from Huntingdon Beach, CA, who entered a Lotus Chevrolet in the '67 SCCA Nationals and the 68 ARRC at Riverside. Maybe this could be the next link in the chain for the ex-Grant/Hansen/Kantrud car?

Went and looked at some of my old stuff. I have a photo of Dick Kantrud racing the ex-Grant, ex-Hansen Lotus 19-Chev in June, 1968. That would seem to eliminate the Pete Woods entry as being this car.

As far as the Hardy/Frederick car, I draw a blank. It did run at the July, 1968, RA 500 but only lasted two laps. Unfortunately, I have no photo of it either on the track or in the paddock. Further, I simply do not recall it.

David, this car was written off in 1964, so there shouldn't be a current owner, unless the wreckage was brought back to life...

Well, I have to hold my hands up here and admit that I am mistaken! I have been told by RaceAnnouncer2003 that Chassis #955 was actually rebuilt in period and sold to Lew Florence, then to a Pete Nash in Seattle, hence it appeared in the pile of bits that David Birchall and John Maycock inspected in the 1980s in the Seattle area...

RA Historian: do you know anything of Keith Hardy and C.E. "Chuck" Frederick, e.g. where they were from and whether they may be still around. I found the names in a few other results but no info as to where they were from...

RA Historian: do you know anything of Keith Hardy and C.E. "Chuck" Frederick, e.g. where they were from and whether they may be still around. I found the names in a few other results but no info as to where they were from...

I did a search of my photos yesterday to see if I had any of Hardy/Frederick in the Lotus 19, or any other car, but I do not. Back then I shot most of my film on McLaren, Hulme, Andretti, et al, and took very few shots of, no insult intended, the back markers, unless they were being lapped.

I did a search of my photos yesterday to see if I had any of Hardy/Frederick in the Lotus 19, or any other car, but I do not. Back then I shot most of my film on McLaren, Hulme, Andretti, et al, and took very few shots of, no insult intended, the back markers, unless they were being lapped.

Thanks for sharing your 19 collection Manfred. These are the first shots I have seen of Grant's metallic green 19/Chevy. Also, great shots of Hill's 19 in '63. Seems to be some minor differences in the body work from Masten's car in 62. Does anyone have any other pictures of the Hill's 19 at Mosport?

Some images of the Nethercutt/Hahn/Tatom/Florence/Nash/Bargelt Lotus 19, s/n 955

1. A page from an article on the May 24, 1964 Player's Pacific at Westwood shows Dave Tatom in the car in the paddock...

2. Same race, Dave is the fourth car in line...

3. Same race, Dave is the third car in line...

4. Same race, the Lotus after the crash...

5. Pete Nash in the Lotus 19..."Pete traded the Corvette to Lew Florence for a Lotus 19, in which he had mixed success...Pete installed a Cobra 289 engine in the car...Six starts, two wins, one wreck and two blown engines! Repairing the Lotus enough to sell, he next raced a 289 Cobra..."

I have a couple of photos of Lew Florence in the car (somewhere!), but as I said to you, Michael, Mark Hovander should have lots!

So finally we have closure on the history of #955--at least I think we do! Vince, (raceannouncer2003--we have done race announcing together a couple of times incidentally), pm'd me with the news that he had been emailed by the guy who is restoring the car now--Vince, may I suggest you email him a link to this thread? I think I will make a couple of phone calls before I give the name and location of the guy we met in the eighties--just in case

Originally posted by David Birchall So finally we have closure on the history of #955--at least I think we do! Vince, (raceannouncer2003--we have done race announcing together a couple of times incidentally), pm'd me with the news that he had been emailed by the guy who is restoring the car now--Vince, may I suggest you email him a link to this thread? I think I will make a couple of phone calls before I give the name and location of the guy we met in the eighties--just in case

Well as usual I had the wrong end of the stick! I misunderstood Vince's email; the person who I met in 1983 still has the car. I just talked to him at length and his opening remark was "where have you been for the past 23 years?"! He asked that I keep his name etc quiet for now and I will of course honour that request. He has been approached by Jack Nethercutt to buy back the car but is declining until he has finished it. So if you know anyone who is thinking of building a #955 please tell them not to waste their time!

As for the Alpine being driven by Eppie or Denis Coad, gosh, I wouldn't think so. Eppie had moved up considerably by this time, of course, and was driving the Comstock GT350's in 1965...not to mention getting over his Westwood Cooper-KC blow over! As for it being Denis, I really can't say...I just don't think so.

In 1965, George Eaton had not surfaced prominently...that would be the next year, 1966, when he showed in the Cobra 427 and he did a bully job in it, imo. When I took that pix, I really didn't know who was in the Sunbeam Alpine but after seeing George many times the following year, it struck me that the Alpine driver's appearance was very, very reminiscent of George Eaton. Apparently not since Jerry E has confirmed otherwise from George himself. I'm open to any suggestions, of course, but I just don't see it being either Weitzes or Coad.

Manfred
aka...Biff Shunter @ CMSHG...a man in search of an identity.

PS: How'd you like that Cheetah pix? Saw your post at the CMSHG and couldn't resist posting it here on TNF.

Now I was there and watched this race with my own eyes, but am having problems reconciling my memory of the race with the official result sheet issued by the organisers!

car #12, Brooks, finished 4th
car #14, Jones, retired after 6 laps, not sure of the reason
car #15, Reedtz-Thott is listed as a DNF but in a Lotus-Ford 23B. Now I am 99.99% certain that he was in a 19 because he crashed it into the chicane on the last lap, scattering all the flowers and bits of polystyrene all over the track. I recall seeing the car in parc ferme, looking somewhat sorry for itself.
car #16 is listed as Marshal Bailey, driving a Lotus-Climax 19 (car #16 in the entry list was Chris Clarkson in a Lotus-Ford 23B) and he is said to have finished 14th.

So my question is this: have they simply mixed up the cars of Reedtz-Thott and Bailey, or was there a fourth 19 racing, driven by Bailey? Perhaps one of you has notes about this or even a photo or two, as I only have shots of the front two rows taking off from the start.

Can't help with that OTMH Michael - I'll have a look at my notes a bit later
I can say however that the fourth-placed car, although entered in the name of Robert Brooks, was in fact driven by Rob Wilson
And, like you, I'm sure I saw the Danish gentleman putting his 19 into the chicane

I can confirm Wilson (in the Brooks car) and Reedtz-Thott both drove 19sBailey was in a 23, though whether he took over Clarkson's car or just the entry I do not knowI don't remember the third 19 (Jones) though it does appear on the official timesheetsSeems the Goodwood paperwork slipped up regarding the Reedtz-Thott and Bailey entries

David: Thanks, I was hoping you might jump in here and clear up who was driving what - I think the organisers had a bad day with their results sheets!

Ray: do tell about how a 19 ended up in the concrete...my ID of 950 being the Brooks car came from an earlier post by Kelvin Jones (post #15). I don't personally know whether this is correct or not but he attributed it to Terry Buffum in the USA, then to Brooks.

On the face of it, there are three ex-UDT cars competing here in the UK and they were all at Goodwood...as described in my earlier post!

Can we get to the bottom of whether the Matich car/wreck could have gone to the US after its 65 shunt, or whether 950 was sold directly by UDT to Buffum or what? Just to add to the confusion, the Monterey Historics programme (can't remember which year) listed the chassis number of Brooks' car as '1901'. Go figure...!

This again calls into question whether the Matich car was ever a pukka 19 with a chassis number or just a bitza put together by Tony Robinson & co from parts. Does Frank Matich have any documentation that he could refer to by any chance?

What Frank told me when I asked him about this was that Stirling Moss saw the car and was appaled at the nature of what had been sent. It definitely came from UDT, but I've forgotten the stature of the car.

And it definitely finished up in concrete. Marc Schagen confirms this, and I feel sure you would know Marc...

Hang on a minute... it's '65 shunt? We're talking about a whole new animal here. That was a much modified chassis, not the UDT chassis, which was bundled up much earlier. 1963 if memory serves.

Originally posted by David McKinney My understanding is that 950 went to the USA in 1961 .......

A small correcction as the discussion shifts to Chassis 950 which went to America for Moss at Riverside and Laguna Seca in October of 1960. And again at Riverside and Laguna in October 1961. Moss was also with Gurney at Nassau in December 61. I think this is where Michael and I would agree the trail starts to cool . . .

My information is that Moss drove a different UDT-Laystall 19 in 1961 (number unknown) and that 950 was already in US ownership by then
But, as I may have said before, I'm by no means certain about any of this

Did someone ask about Charlie Kolb and the ex-Harrison Special Lotus 19?

Kolb brought it out of a two-year retirement to win a SCCA race at Fernandina Beach, FL, on 17 Apr 1966. It was then called the Schroeder Spl but CP&A note that it's a Lotus 19 with a 289 Ford engine. (CP&A 7 May 1966 p6)