Why we will never ban sharks

Just for future reference I decided to write this up to resolve all those old arguments I don't really want to hear. I'll add more if there's anything else that can be refutable.

You cannot draw the line

With sharking, there is no clear line to determine if something was a shark or not. When is something a shark and when is it a good deal? It's an entirely grey area and the decision will vary depending on who is judging. Scamming on the other hand has a very, very thin line, since it's either you get something you wanted or you don't.

Sharking is not illegal, it is a moral subject and we're joining SteamRep's stance on this one - we have no intention of touching it as it's completely up to the opinion of the judge, which can vary a hell of a lot. There is a huge chance a total newbie could shark by absolute accident (these things can happen, think back to those old days of TF2 when trading just came out and prices weren't exactly set in stone in people's minds), and it'd be completely unfair to him if he had a mark for life because the moral police noticed what happened and came after them.

Once you click Make Trade on the Steam Trade window, you have agreed to trade your items for theirs.

Loads of people do it

Only the loud ones who boast actually get caught. Do you have any idea how many sharked unusuals are on the market? Do you really think everybody has the patience to wait months and months for some sucker to take on their bad deal for legit to make profit that way? Ever noticed how there's always a bunch of people with an unexplained amount of salvaged crates?

• Typing "gibe" into Google brings up the first suggested result as "gibe hats pls", followed by "gibe everything pls" in number 4• Furthermore, typing "gibe hats" will bring up many related results, including "gibe hats pls alternative", meaning enough people have searched for this phrase for it to show up in Google's suggested results• Typing "jessecar96" into Google brings up another good suggestion (not a personal attack - this is what everybody calls it by)• "up to no" as well brings up a perfectly suggested result• 1,280 unique users are already using the most recent online scanner solution

A few months ago I tested it out for myself with some Earbuds and a fresh alt account. A LOT of people added me or traded in-game in an attempt to get my item for dirt.- I didn't even have it equipped so it was obvious they were using a scanner. I also had a lot of fun getting them to go out of their way to acquire hard-to-sell items to trade for them, but that's another story. While there are some people who added me, I figured some of the more intelligent sharks would've realised the massive difference in the item's current ID.

They do not affect people who know how to trade

So why ban them from a trade site? It's not going to accomplish anything. Outside of sharking, sharks are generally pretty fair traders and are more likely to be less stingy than one who does everything the hard way, thus won't get snappy because you outed them by a single piece of scrap metal. Items such as salvaged crates and other popular rares are easily sold anywhere, even on trade servers - it's just not going to solve anything. And do you really think you're going to keep track of alternate accounts?

As other trade sites ban sharks, we are the last bastion for them. However, this does NOT mean we are catering for sharks, we are simply neutral to them. As we say, if people know you are up to no good (hah), then your reputation as a trader is at stake and you may lose some customers. But, since you are getting $10+ rares for dropped weapons, it's probably for the better.

(If our target audience WAS sharks, wouldn't we have a few server/friend scanners in place?)

Judging based on moral values leads to the creation of a Orwellian society

If an issue occurs and the answer isn't a straightforward black or white yes or no answer, then we don't want to go into it. We do not like Orwellian communities as they are destructive against free speech, but there are a quite a few of them in the TF2 trading scene. If you like going out of your way to find black sheep to incriminate them as much as possible, that's fine, but don't bring it to Bazaar.

Sharking is actually a European sport

Please stop misusing our word. It's an awesome sport too.

Just for future reference I decided to write this up to resolve all those old arguments I don't really want to hear. I'll add more if there's anything else that can be refutable.
[b]You cannot draw the line[/b]
With sharking, there is no clear line to determine if something was a shark or not. When is something a shark and when is it a good deal? It's an entirely grey area and the decision will vary depending on who is judging. Scamming on the other hand has a very, very thin line, since it's either you get something you wanted or you don't.
Sharking is not illegal, it is a moral subject and we're joining SteamRep's stance on this one - we have no intention of touching it as it's completely up to the opinion of the judge, which can vary a hell of a lot. There is a huge chance a total newbie could shark by absolute accident (these things can happen, think back to those old days of TF2 when trading just came out and prices weren't exactly set in stone in people's minds), and it'd be completely unfair to him if he had a mark for life because the moral police noticed what happened and came after them.
[b]Nothing constitutes value in an open market[/b]
The prices are not defined by Valve, nor they are defined by spreadsheets or any other price lists. The prices that are listed are almost always the average market price, as in what people are buying and selling for. Are you even sure lil' Timmy [url=http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/economics/arbitrage-and-equilibrium-in-the-team-fortress-2-economy/]even wanted those earmuffs when he could've had a cool laser gun[/url]?
[i]Once you click Make Trade on the Steam Trade window, you have agreed to trade your items for theirs.[/i]
[b]Loads of people do it[/b]
Only the loud ones who boast actually get caught. Do you have any idea how many sharked unusuals are on the market? Do you really think everybody has the patience to wait months and months for some sucker to take on their bad deal for legit to make profit that way? Ever noticed how there's always a bunch of people with an unexplained amount of salvaged crates?
[*][i]Typing "gibe" into Google brings up the first suggested result as "gibe hats pls", followed by "gibe everything pls" in number 4[/i]
[*][i]Furthermore, typing "gibe hats" will bring up many related results, including "gibe hats pls alternative", meaning enough people have searched for this phrase for it to show up in Google's suggested results[/i]
[*][i]Typing "jessecar96" into Google brings up another good suggestion (not a personal attack - this is what everybody calls it by)[/i]
[*][i]"up to no" as well brings up a perfectly suggested result[/i]
[*][i]1,280 unique users are already using the most recent online scanner solution[/i]
A few months ago I tested it out for myself with some Earbuds and a fresh alt account. A LOT of people added me or traded in-game in an attempt to get my item for dirt.- I didn't even have it equipped so it was obvious they were using a scanner. I also had a lot of fun getting them to go out of their way to acquire hard-to-sell items to trade for them, but that's another story. While there are some people who added me, I figured some of the more intelligent sharks would've realised the massive difference in the item's current ID.
[b]They do not affect people who know how to trade[/b]
So why ban them from a trade site? It's not going to accomplish anything. Outside of sharking, sharks are generally pretty fair traders and are more likely to be less stingy than one who does everything the hard way, thus won't get snappy because you outed them by a single piece of scrap metal. Items such as salvaged crates and other popular rares are easily sold anywhere, even on trade servers - it's just not going to solve anything. And do you really think you're going to keep track of alternate accounts?
As other trade sites ban sharks, we are the last bastion for them. However, this does NOT mean we are catering for sharks, we are simply neutral to them. As we say, if people know you are up to no good (hah), then your reputation as a trader is at stake and you may lose some customers. But, since you are getting $10+ rares for dropped weapons, it's probably for the better.
(If our target audience WAS sharks, wouldn't we have a few server/friend scanners in place?)
[b]Judging based on moral values leads to the creation of a Orwellian society[/b]
If an issue occurs and the answer isn't a straightforward black or white yes or no answer, then we don't want to go into it. We do not like Orwellian communities as they are destructive against free speech, but there are a quite a few of them in the TF2 trading scene. If you like going out of your way to find black sheep to incriminate them as much as possible, that's fine, but don't bring it to Bazaar.
[b]Sharking is actually a European sport[/b]
Please stop misusing our word. It's an awesome sport too.

I personally believe its a good decision to not ban Sharks. Sometimes I'd be considered a shark for knowing someone who doesn't give a damn about hats/salvaged crates/etc and so they give them to me for cheap. (I got a 40# for a name tag.)But ban the actual Sharks, those things are assholes.

I personally believe its a good decision to not ban Sharks. Sometimes I'd be considered a shark for knowing someone who doesn't give a damn about hats/salvaged crates/etc and so they give them to me for cheap. (I got a 40# for a name tag.)
[spoiler]But ban the actual Sharks, those things are assholes.[/spoiler]

I personally believe its a good decision to not ban Sharks. Sometimes I'd be considered a shark for knowing someone who doesn't give a damn about hats/salvaged crates/etc and so they give them to me for cheap. (I got a 40# for a name tag.)But ban the actual Sharks, those things are assholes.

Spell Nexus™

I personally believe its a good decision to not ban Sharks. Sometimes I'd be considered a shark for knowing someone who doesn't give a damn about hats/salvaged crates/etc and so they give them to me for cheap. (I got a 40# for a name tag.)But ban the actual Sharks, those things are assholes.

Dude you tots need to be banned. Tots.

[quote=Spell Nexus™]
I personally believe its a good decision to not ban Sharks. Sometimes I'd be considered a shark for knowing someone who doesn't give a damn about hats/salvaged crates/etc and so they give them to me for cheap. (I got a 40# for a name tag.)
[spoiler]But ban the actual Sharks, those things are assholes.[/spoiler]
[/quote]
[quote=Spell Nexus™]
I personally believe its a good decision to not ban Sharks. Sometimes I'd be considered a shark for knowing someone who doesn't give a damn about hats/salvaged crates/etc and so they give them to me for cheap. (I got a 40# for a name tag.)
[spoiler]But ban the actual Sharks, those things are assholes.[/spoiler]
[/quote]
Dude you tots need to be banned. Tots.

So does tf2outpost ban sharks or something?Was there people clamoring for certain sharks to be banned?Cool thread, I guess. I guess I can agree with what you say about the reason why you won't ban sharks.

So does tf2outpost ban sharks or something?
Was there people clamoring for certain sharks to be banned?
Cool thread, I guess. I guess I can agree with what you say about the reason why you won't ban sharks.

I remember some people trying to get my Ebenezer for 2 craftable hats when I was new to Steam. Good for me decided not to sell it anyway. The day I started to be interested in trading was a while after that.

I remember some people trying to get my Ebenezer for 2 craftable hats when I was new to Steam. Good for me decided not to sell it anyway. The day I started to be interested in trading was a while after that.

As far as I see it, if you're too ignorant to look up if your item is valuable you deserve have it taken off you for nothing.

Also if both people are happy with the trade, i.e. the kid LIKES his new laser weapons then it should be fine.

As far as I see it, if you're too ignorant to look up if your item is valuable you deserve have it taken off you for nothing.
Also if both people are happy with the trade, i.e. the kid LIKES his new laser weapons then it should be fine.

As far as I see it, if you're too ignorant to look up if your item is valuable you deserve have it taken off you for nothing.

Also if both people are happy with the trade, i.e. the kid LIKES his new laser weapons then it should be fine.

I agree, but then you have the moral guardians swoop in and do nothing other than tell him what happened and ruin the guys day. For what purpose do they do that if it's impossible to get the stuff back?

[quote=hyspooky_ainsley | bazaar.tf]
As far as I see it, if you're too ignorant to look up if your item is valuable you deserve have it taken off you for nothing.
Also if both people are happy with the trade, i.e. the kid LIKES his new laser weapons then it should be fine.
[/quote]
I agree, but then you have the moral guardians swoop in and do nothing other than tell him what happened and ruin the guys day. For what purpose do they do that if it's impossible to get the stuff back?

I agree, but then you have the moral guardians swoop in and do nothing other than tell him what happened and ruin the guys day. For what purpose do they do that if it's impossible to get the stuff back?

Why would it ruin the guys day if he wanted the cool laser gun instead of his dumb earmuffs?

[quote=Totenkreuz]
I agree, but then you have the moral guardians swoop in and do nothing other than tell him what happened and ruin the guys day. For what purpose do they do that if it's impossible to get the stuff back?
[/quote]
Why would it ruin the guys day if he [i]wanted[/i] the cool laser gun instead of his dumb earmuffs?

Personally I feel that the term Sharking is quite a misunderstood term. Sharking is , better put, going out of you way to add new and inexperienced players to trade for their valuable items. Scoring a good deal on a trade server isn't called Sharking, unless it's something like 2 scrap for a burning killer's kabuto. That would be Sharking.

Also, I believe many of use know a certain guy with a YouTube channel with a name starting with Ace, who many think is a shark himself, even though he's "against" it. I wouldn't mention his full name here as it might look like a personal attack but I think most people will know who I'm referring to.

Personally I feel that the term Sharking is quite a misunderstood term. Sharking is , better put, going out of you way to add new and inexperienced players to trade for their valuable items. Scoring a good deal on a trade server isn't called Sharking, unless it's something like 2 scrap for a burning killer's kabuto. That would be Sharking.
Also, I believe many of use know a certain guy with a YouTube channel with a name starting with Ace, who many think is a shark himself, even though he's "against" it. I wouldn't mention his full name here as it might look like a personal attack but I think most people will know who I'm referring to.

The thing with sharking is that the only people that dislike it are people that are angry that there is an easier way and/or are jealous. That's honestly all there is to it. For virtual items it's all up to you to decide its value. It just so happens that there is a market for it, but whether the gamer wants to participate into it is a different matter. Honestly, I see it as adding items into the market from people that would never participate in the market or throw their items into the fray anyway. There is such a thing as sharking, let's not kid ourselves here. You ARE screwing over inexperienced people. But only if they would never partake anyway, and nay criticism I would say isn't based on morality rather than jealousy. I refuse to believe some guy is on a moral high-ground when he spends day in and out trying to get more for his items than they're worth. CAN YOU ADD SWEETS

I liken it to shows like American pickers. There are people that don't realize there is a market for their crappy old items. Would they have ever put those items up for auction? Probably not. Someone else will make a profit off of it. Off of their ignorance.

The thing with sharking is that the only people that dislike it are people that are angry that there is an easier way and/or are jealous. That's honestly all there is to it. For virtual items it's all up to you to decide its value. It just so happens that there is a market for it, but whether the gamer wants to participate into it is a different matter. Honestly, I see it as adding items into the market from people that would never participate in the market or throw their items into the fray anyway. There is such a thing as sharking, let's not kid ourselves here. You ARE screwing over inexperienced people. But only if they would never partake anyway, and nay criticism I would say isn't based on morality rather than jealousy. I refuse to believe some guy is on a moral high-ground when he spends day in and out trying to get more for his items than they're worth. CAN YOU ADD SWEETS
I liken it to shows like American pickers. There are people that don't realize there is a market for their crappy old items. Would they have ever put those items up for auction? Probably not. Someone else will make a profit off of it. Off of their ignorance.

Yes but when it comes to an extent that someone trades another guy a weapon for a $1000 unusual hat. Then something has to be done about it.

Like what, trade ban the guy? It's equally imoral to punish sharks as it is to shark. Sharking will exist forever, just like scamming will exist forever.

[quote=Eternal]
Yes but when it comes to an extent that someone trades another guy a weapon for a $1000 unusual hat. Then something has to be done about it.
[/quote]
Like what, trade ban the guy? It's equally imoral to punish sharks as it is to shark. Sharking will exist forever, just like scamming will exist forever.

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