Confabulat:ginandbacon: I think homosexuality is illegal in all of those countries but I have a lot of gay friends that have had wonderful vacations in Morocco. (Admittedly not lately.) They are all predominantly Muslim I believe except for Ethiopia and Eritrea? It still seems odd to not include them in "a map of Africa."

I dunno though. The wording is poor but Africa is really really really big. At some point you have to scale in further or you may as well just put everything on there and call it Earth. It's not like the USA or Australia or Russia or China or Canada or other big places either, at least those places are united by a single government. These are small volatile nations that probably have a million blood disputes with each other, or they don't even know each other exist. Even the countries listed have about zero in common with each other after awhile, I'm quite sure.

It seems kind of pointless to lump them all together anyway.

Big doesn't begin to really to do the scale justice. The Sahara alone is nearly the size of the entire US. 3.3 million square miles versus the US' 3.79 million. Yeah, it makes the South West's desert look like a blip.

Sorry, that doesn't mean disapproval. You lose, now go take your derp and shiat all over some other thread with your ignorant twaddle.

I haven't lost anything, dude. However, you've been a pretty interesting case subject on the backwards confused dimwits on the wrong side of history who never heard of gay rights until the read about it online. That's you, right? Never had any close gay friends in your life? Never seen the struggles they've been going through? Cause I'm straight, but I've grown up around gay people my whole life and for me, this is a very personal subject.

You really never had any gay friends, huh? Was that because they were too scared to tell you, or because you were busy beating them up?

You want to fight over the vague meanings of various words, when the fact is, you're still an really shocking example of American ignorance in 2013. I think I'll let you obsess over your little wordplay if it comforts you.

BraveNewCheneyWorld:Serious Black: Would you care to respond to my question of whether gay people should be treated legally the same as straight people in terms of being able to have consensual sexual relations, get married to each other, and work without fear of being fired for who they love and who they are married to?

They should be able to have relationships. They shouldn't be able to get married. They shouldn't have to worry about being fired.

The Italian Farker: Exactly, I point out that the word "Disapproval" is actually a synonym for "Aversion" listed under the Merriam-Webster thesaurus page and all he can say in reply is.

I'm sorry you don't realize how much you suck at English. Can a person disapprove of drugs, while being able to tolerate being around them? Yes, yes they can, and that means that "aversion" as its relevant use, is not applicable.

Well I would rather suck at English than have to take a word that has more than one meaning and only use the meaning that seems appropriate and ignore the other ones because they might contradict his point.

It is more than a bit disingenuous to claim moral superiority because you accept or approve of something.

"Oh yeah, I think the things that I like are just nifty, and that makes me a good person", as it were.

The real moral winner is the fellow who does not approve, who does not accept, yet still tolerates the things that he does not approve or accept.

But the majority of the posters here would seem to demand that nothing short of full acceptance and approval of homosexuality will do. The amusing thing is that these posters don't view themselves as bigots -- they consider themselves quite open-minded.

BraveNewCheneyWorld:log_jammin: BraveNewCheneyWorld: I disapprove of people getting face tattoos

why? Just like someone being homosexual, it's non of your business.

Ah, so we can only disapprove of things that directly affect us? I'm sure you have plenty of opinions on things that don't affect you, but let me guess, because this is a hot button issue these days, and you want to be PC.. this is "different".

Hot button issue? PC? My god man, did you just beam here to Planet Earth? I'm 43 years old and this was a huge topic since I've been old enough to be aware of it. Have you lived your life in such a sheltered little world that homophobia crossed your mind until you read it on the news?

WOW. I think your opinions on anything need to be taken with a serious grain of salt. I dunno, maybe go make some friends or something.

And I looked up "homophobia" in Merriam-Webster just out of curiosity:

Definition of HOMOPHOBIA: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.So if you disapprove of homosexuality, how are you not homophobic, exactly? Do you have a rational reason?

There are other books that prohibit it besides Leviticus. For me, Romans 1 is why I can't support gay marriage, but Romans 13 is why I won't oppose it (because love does no harm to it's neighbor). But let's not pretend that God is in favor of it.

/Christian a education major, Biblical studies minor//not that it matters. The text is plain.

BraveNewCheneyWorld:Hickory-smoked: If it just means you don't like having sex with men, then I think your disagreement is 100% supported by everyone across the political spectrum. If you mean you "disagree" with other men or women who think they have the right to consensually love each other, then you're an asshole. There's no other way to put it.

There are people who don't like to use heroin, but think it should be legal, and there are people who don't use heroin and think it should be illegal. Neither one of those groups is necessarily being led by hatred or bigotry, and neither one is inherently an "asshole" because of the views they hold. It's a shame that you can't see how your logic would (not) apply to many similar consensual activities. How can you claim to be fighting for tolerance, when you are intolerant of those who do nothing more than disagree?

First, it isn't bigotry to dislike bigots. Don't be stupid.

Second, you are an asshole troll. Your views are that of an asshole Your distraction of how big an asshole you are via dictionary games is that of a troll.

If you weren't, your initial comment here would be 'I don't like the changing of language over time'. But of course you couldn't do that. Why? Because asshole trolls are gonna be asshole troll.

STRYPERSWINE:It's one thing to condemn gay bashing, it's another to heretically put words into God's mouth. Listening to Satan when he said "God didnt REALLY say that" was humanity's original sin. A priest should know better, let alone an archbishop.

Please. I am interested in hearing which Divinity school you did your studies at to correct the formerArchbishop. Enlighten us, please. Dazzle us with your knowledge, you crazy, shining, diamond of Ecclesiastical Studies...

BraveNewCheneyWorld:Confabulat: BraveNewCheneyWorld: They should be able to have relationships. They shouldn't be able to get married. They shouldn't have to worry about being fired.

Why shouldn't they be able to get married? Be very specific in your answer.

After you people have shown that you're willing to continuously lie about the meaning of a word in an effort to sway an argument in your favor, why would I do that? Why should I believe that you'll begin debating honestly now?

Ha, I'm more interesting in the overall issue than the pedestry of a word. Can you not tell me your opinions about the subject, or do you prefer to argue proper English?

STRYPERSWINE:It's one thing to condemn gay bashing, it's another to heretically put words into God's mouth. Listening to Satan when he said "God didnt REALLY say that" was humanity's original sin. A priest should know better, let alone an archbishop.

Funny that an Archbishop DID say that. One might think he might know the word of God better than some folks who seem to forget that there is more to The Bible than Leviticus...

It's one thing to condemn gay bashing, it's another to heretically put words into God's mouth. Listening to Satan when he said "God didnt REALLY say that" was humanity's original sin. A priest should know better, let alone an archbishop.

letrole:Tolerance does not equal AcceptanceIt is more than a bit disingenuous to claim moral superiority because you accept or approve of something."Oh yeah, I think the things that I like are just nifty, and that makes me a good person", as it were.The real moral winner is the fellow who does not approve, who does not accept, yet still tolerates the things that he does not approve or accept.But the majority of the posters here would seem to demand that nothing short of full acceptance and approval of homosexuality will do. The amusing thing is that these posters don't view themselves as bigots -- they consider themselves quite open-minded.

jso2897:Trolling is learned behavior.

There is no troll here, except for the way that you've jumped up unbidden and barked a word that is now meaningless -- due to the way that dumbasses bark it out with no justification.

Which incidentally is the drift of the thread now in which 'phobia' does not mean 'phobia' unless it means 'phobia', or perhaps just means phobia, or some such revisionist shiat.

Serious Black:BraveNewCheneyWorld: druiid: I enjoy how the bigot in the thread keeps being trollish toward people when they respond and ask questions about his stance, yet doesn't actually refute what they said, at all. Good jorb there buddy. Keep on keeping on. You're marked as a bigot in my farkies now.

What's with you people feel the need to tell everyone how they've farkied someone? Who are you, and why do you think you're important enough for us to care? You're as useless as the people who post "lol".

Would you care to respond to my question of whether gay people should be treated legally the same as straight people in terms of being able to have consensual sexual relations, get married to each other, and work without fear of being fired for who they love and who they are married to?

That would make far too much sense and not be trollish for him to actually respond to you. Notice how he responded to my comment though, not with any sort of refutation of his behavior and responses, but yet another troll comment. I'd like to say he's just trolling us for fun, but given his profile I'm going to guess he actually believes that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry, etc. But hey, I'd love to actually see him actually come out and say what he is actually for/against rather than just trolling about use of language.

Maybe I should make it easy for him and give him a multiple choice set of answers:a) I feel that gay people should not be allowed to marry, or that they should not have the same set of rights as othersb) Whatever people do in their houses is fine, but they shouldn't be allowed to get married because. <Feel free to insert reasoning here>c) I feel that gay people should be allowed to marry, just as long as it's not to me.d) I'm disturbed by the idea of people being gay, but as long as they don't try to have sex with me it's finee) Gay is a choice and therefore they are just weird and I don't like weird peoplef) <Insert answer that is not a troll comment about language and is actually what you believe. Then people can have an actual discussion with you, regardless of what your viewpoint is. Just... friggin have... one.>

Shedim:BraveNewCheneyWorld: You can disapprove of homosexuality without being homophobic.

How?

It's interesting how often people make that claim and yet never explain how their objections tp, or "disapproval" of, homosexuality doesn't spring from hate or religion. When asked, they just change the subject or stop talking, in my experience. Maybe today will be an exception. We'll see.

BraveNewCheneyWorld:druiid: I enjoy how the bigot in the thread keeps being trollish toward people when they respond and ask questions about his stance, yet doesn't actually refute what they said, at all. Good jorb there buddy. Keep on keeping on. You're marked as a bigot in my farkies now.

What's with you people feel the need to tell everyone how they've farkied someone? Who are you, and why do you think you're important enough for us to care? You're as useless as the people who post "lol".

"Useless"? Who, here, is not "useless"? Do you perform some useful function here, other than being the dumbest asshole in the room most of the time? Of course not. Stop being silly.

Serious Black:BraveNewCheneyWorld: druiid: I enjoy how the bigot in the thread keeps being trollish toward people when they respond and ask questions about his stance, yet doesn't actually refute what they said, at all. Good jorb there buddy. Keep on keeping on. You're marked as a bigot in my farkies now.

What's with you people feel the need to tell everyone how they've farkied someone? Who are you, and why do you think you're important enough for us to care? You're as useless as the people who post "lol".

Would you care to respond to my question of whether gay people should be treated legally the same as straight people in terms of being able to have consensual sexual relations, get married to each other, and work without fear of being fired for who they love and who they are married to?

I'm going to hazard that he won't really, because it gets in the way of folks interfering with the "great freedom" to be dicks to people.

And that's the problem. Like the fact that some folks aren't into the same things that you're into or not, it boils down to basic rights. The freedom of consenting adults to be consenting adults.

You don't want to marry folks in your own church, I have no problem with that. You want to prevent other churches from doing so, then there's issue. Minding your own dang business is the ultimate lesson here, and some folks just can't stand to see others not choosing their own path. Be as hateful and cranky as you want within your own church, preach to the Heavens and all your congregation about the ebbil and sins of folks, but maybe step back a bit when it comes down what consenting adults do with other consenting adults, and maybe step back a bit and consider that "religious freedom" doesn't mean dictating what others can or should do within their own...

BraveNewCheneyWorld:druiid: I enjoy how the bigot in the thread keeps being trollish toward people when they respond and ask questions about his stance, yet doesn't actually refute what they said, at all. Good jorb there buddy. Keep on keeping on. You're marked as a bigot in my farkies now.

What's with you people feel the need to tell everyone how they've farkied someone? Who are you, and why do you think you're important enough for us to care? You're as useless as the people who post "lol".

Would you care to respond to my question of whether gay people should be treated legally the same as straight people in terms of being able to have consensual sexual relations, get married to each other, and work without fear of being fired for who they love and who they are married to?

I enjoy how the bigot in the thread keeps being trollish toward people when they respond and ask questions about his stance, yet doesn't actually refute what they said, at all. Good jorb there buddy. Keep on keeping on. You're marked as a bigot in my farkies now.

hubiestubert:Confabulat: ginandbacon: I think homosexuality is illegal in all of those countries but I have a lot of gay friends that have had wonderful vacations in Morocco. (Admittedly not lately.) They are all predominantly Muslim I believe except for Ethiopia and Eritrea? It still seems odd to not include them in "a map of Africa."

I dunno though. The wording is poor but Africa is really really really big. At some point you have to scale in further or you may as well just put everything on there and call it Earth. It's not like the USA or Australia or Russia or China or Canada or other big places either, at least those places are united by a single government. These are small volatile nations that probably have a million blood disputes with each other, or they don't even know each other exist. Even the countries listed have about zero in common with each other after awhile, I'm quite sure.

It seems kind of pointless to lump them all together anyway.

[infobeautiful2.s3.amazonaws.com image 550x614]

Big doesn't begin to really to do the scale justice. The Sahara alone is nearly the size of the entire US. 3.3 million square miles versus the US' 3.79 million. Yeah, it makes the South West's desert look like a blip.

I like when it comes to words like phobia and theory, conservatives decide that words are allowed to have one strict definition and one definition only, ignoring common usage and any other recognized definition. Specifically with homophobia, it has very commonly meant any negative feeling or attitude towards homosexuals, despite the roots of the word. It reminds me of the rednecks that live near me who try to claim (falsely) that the n-word originally meant something other than a black person, so they were not being racist by calling black people that all the time.

Hickory-smoked:taurusowner: Confabulat: And I looked up "homophobia" in Merriam-Webster just out of curiosity:

Definition of HOMOPHOBIA: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.So if you disapprove of homosexuality, how are you not homophobic, exactly? Do you have a rational reason?

Well a big reason would be that a "phobia" is a medical condition pertaining specifically to fear with the accompanying physical syptoms.

It also refers to irrational aversion.

Disagreeing with something is not.

What exactly does it mean to "disagree" with homosexuality? Is that like disagreeing with the color green? Or disagreeing with being left handed?

If it just means you don't like having sex with men, then I think your disagreement is 100% supported by everyone across the political spectrum. If you mean you "disagree" with other men or women who think they have the right to consensually love each other, then you're an asshole. There's no other way to put it.

There are a lot of people who are virulently anti-gay and like policies like Cuccinelli's attempt to ban homosexual sodomy but simultaneously say they love gay people. I've asked them how they are showing love to gay people if not by banning them from the only sexual activity they desire. They have no response as of yet.

SpankMeJohnny:This has to be a touch one for the Farklibs. Do you hate him because he is Christian or love him because he likes the gays?

Not tough at all. He's a human being who inherently has dignity, and he recognizes that all people regardless of sexual orientation and gender expression have dignity. Taking a principled stand like this deserves praise.

The suggestion it is a choice is pretty well nothing but an attempt to dehumanize people. Also a gay virgin is as gay as one who sleeps with anyone that moves. All the talk about acting is completely pointless, a homosexual is a homosexual. Case closed.

taurusowner:Confabulat: And I looked up "homophobia" in Merriam-Webster just out of curiosity:

Definition of HOMOPHOBIA: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.So if you disapprove of homosexuality, how are you not homophobic, exactly? Do you have a rational reason?

Well a big reason would be that a "phobia" is a medical condition pertaining specifically to fear with the accompanying physical syptoms.

It also refers to irrational aversion.

Disagreeing with something is not.

What exactly does it mean to "disagree" with homosexuality? Is that like disagreeing with the color green? Or disagreeing with being left handed?

If it just means you don't like having sex with men, then I think your disagreement is 100% supported by everyone across the political spectrum. If you mean you "disagree" with other men or women who think they have the right to consensually love each other, then you're an asshole. There's no other way to put it.

Paris1127:[news.bbcimg.co.uk image 464x495]Morocco, Western Sahara, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt are apparently not a part of Africa... Nor are the island nations generally listed as part of Africa (Madagascar, Comoros, etc).

There's nothing especially weird about it. They're in Africa geographically. But Egypt, at the very least, is culturally and politically part of the Middle East. It's not that different from México being part of North America geographically yet part of Latin America in all other regards. Or the way Turkey both is and is not part of Europe. Or Australia and New Zealand being "Western" nations.

The mapping of sociopolitical/cultural regions to geographic ones just isn't that neat.

Shedim:wildcardjack: I've read Dante and I fail to understand the downside of hell. I've also come to devalue pain as never being any worse than a sign of over doing something, and if you no longer have a body to worry about then there's no worries about any amount of pain involved.

The painful punishment is only symbolic of their sin - Dante's depiction of Hell is the prime example of Ironic Hell. The actual punishment of Hell is not what's happening to them in the various Circles; it's the total isolation from God. You are in Hell because God does not give a shiat about you. There's no redemption, no forgiveness and no way out once you're in there. All the souls in Hell feel this isolation from the Divine, even those that don't understand it, and that is the true source of their pain; the punishments are symbolic but ultimately incidental to the actual torment of Hell.

Succinct and to the point, but that's assuming one has a delusional feeling of connection to Harry Potter.

BraveNewCheneyWorld:Look up the definition of homophobic. It should be pretty damn apparent if you have an IQ above 80

From Wikipedia:Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, may be based on irrational fear, and is sometimes related to religious beliefs.

From what I understand, "disapprove of homosexuality" just sounds like a more polite synonym than an actual distinction. So on what grounds can you "disapprove of homosexuality" without being homophobic?

ginandbacon:That is so weird. Do they think they're in the Middle East?

I have no idea, but I'd think most of those countries' populations are on the Mediterranean Sea, and separated by the rest of the continent by the world's biggest desert, so they probably are more inclined to be associated with those cultures, not the African continent per se. But then hell I've never set foot over there, what do I know.

Paris1127:[news.bbcimg.co.uk image 464x495]Morocco, Western Sahara, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt are apparently not a part of Africa... Nor are the island nations generally listed as part of Africa (Madagascar, Comoros, etc).