… You can let the browser know what's happening so it can avoid the system IME and show your custom IME.

08:46:08 [Lachy]

… Games case not covered by the spec.

08:46:14 [tantek]

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08:46:20 [Lachy]

… Presentation case is covered.

08:46:25 [Lachy]

ack adrianba

08:46:41 [odinho_]

s/Games/Custom IME design for games/

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08:46:52 [Lachy]

adrianba, You mentioned the JavaScript API for disabling the IME. For a long time in IE, we've had IME mode CSS mechanism for disabling IME.

08:47:00 [chaals]

[Sorry Dmitry, but it was when you started getting impassioned that it started turning into a sales pitch… I thought you had explained your technical perspective well enough to let people think about the ideas...]

08:47:06 [Lachy]

… It's in one of the draft specs. Have you considered that and is it similar?

08:47:28 [Lachy]

KenjiBX, There is a function for that to hit at that. Similar to CSS, but in JS.

08:47:44 [Lachy]

adrianba, maybe we could consider if we need both.

08:47:58 [mjs]

q+

08:48:18 [Lachy]

adrianba: Microsoft is interested in improving this general area, but highest priority is the the use case around positioning.

08:48:30 [Lachy]

… Seems like it's not currently covered by the spec.

08:48:43 [Lachy]

… If we add that, it would be substantial scope change.

08:49:05 [nsakai]

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08:49:07 [Lachy]

… that's the place where we'd most like to work on this. What are your priorities?

08:49:21 [Lachy]

KenjiBX: I'm interested in that. Thought about it.

08:50:06 [Lachy]

ack mounir

08:50:09 [takuya]

q+

08:50:11 [rotsuya_]

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08:50:29 [Lachy]

mounir: First use case is like a UA implementation details.

08:50:39 [Lachy]

… The UA could just show it quietly and not have the two UIs.

08:50:44 [odinho_]

s/and show your custom IME/or adapt the site design and behaviour to the IME/

08:50:48 [chaals]

s/quietly/correctly/

08:50:56 [Lachy]

… I was wondering for the styling use case. Have you considered CSS?

08:51:16 [Lachy]

KenjiBX: Yes.

08:51:27 [Lachy]

[could not hear answer properly]

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08:51:47 [Lachy]

mounir: Why don't you think it's a UA implementation detail?

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08:51:58 [hallvord]

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08:52:10 [Lachy]

KenjiBX: I think it's better to let the web app decide on the best UX for this case.

08:52:37 [Lachy]

maciej: I think there might be a misunderstanding. The candidate window is provided by the OS, the suggestions are provided by the web app.

08:52:43 [chaals]

ack mou

08:53:04 [Lachy]

… Need to tell the IME system where to put the IME popup.

08:53:06 [nsakai]

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08:53:22 [Lachy]

… I agree with Microsoft about what the most important use cases are. Avoiding candidate window and overlap.

08:53:31 [Lachy]

… The other cases seem periferal.

08:53:53 [odinho_]

ack mjs

08:54:11 [Lachy]

… It seems to be designed solely for the purpose of implementing their own input methods. I don't think that is a good idea. JS implementations are not likely to work across devices.

08:54:13 [adrianba]

q?

08:54:15 [odinho_]

ack takuya

08:54:18 [adrianba]

q+ chaals

08:54:20 [chaals]

q+

08:54:43 [MikeSmith]

pbakaus, we're talking about IME here in webapps

08:55:02 [Lachy]

KenjiBX: The current draft says the UA can get the current position of the candidate window. [???]

08:55:54 [Lachy]

chaals: chair hat off: In many ways I agree that JS is a terrible way to handle user input in general. Handling keyboard input breaks accessibility, etc.

08:55:58 [MikeSmith]

ack chaals

08:56:06 [Lachy]

… Except that we use it because the Operating Systems don't make things easy.

08:56:25 [Lachy]

… In Yandex Translate, we provide an input method for converging latin characters into Russian, or vice versa.

08:56:44 [Lachy]

… So I'm nervous about focussing on the use case of a site being able to build its own IME.

08:56:55 [Lachy]

… The overlapping of the suggestion and IME is a bigger problem.

08:57:07 [Lachy]

… Agree with mjs.

08:57:28 [Lachy]

… A lot of assisted input systems fake being a keybaord. Concerned about the interaction with this API.

08:57:34 [mjs]

q+

08:57:42 [naokii]

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08:57:52 [Lachy]

… Authors make assumptions about the user's keyboard that are not true.

… that's basically the demo and getting everyone up to speed. Any questions or discussion?

16:01:24 [Lachy]

q?

16:02:02 [noriya]

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16:02:37 [Lachy]

Greg. It has changed. For a while we thought we needed extra metadata in the pay load.

16:02:46 [Lachy]

… Currently the API is very task oriented.

16:02:47 [seo]

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16:03:05 [komoroske]

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16:03:16 [Lachy]

… If the model is more a persistent system or app to app connection, that may not be the best API to use.

16:03:33 [Lachy]

q?

16:04:24 [Lachy]

XXX: You spoke a lot about interacting with 2 tabs. Could you explain?

16:04:38 [odinho_]

s/XXX/mounir/

16:05:10 [Lachy]

Greg: There's 1 tab that initiates the intent, one that satisfies it. What should happen if the user closes the second tab. How should that be handled by the browser or the web app? These issues are not clear.

16:06:33 [Lachy]

… I characterise it as more of a UI problem that browser vendors need to pay attention to.

16:07:26 [davidb]

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16:07:27 [Lachy]

sicking: I haven't been following web intents, but I was under the impression that there was some mechanism to set up a communication link between two tabs. Is that there?

16:08:02 [Lachy]

Greg: The way the experiement works in Chrome is that there's always a UI that the service presents.

16:08:18 [Lachy]

… The tab is always opened either inline or in a new tab.

16:08:56 [massimo]

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16:09:10 [Lachy]

XXX: Chromes specification indicates that there is a pause attribute.

16:09:18 [odinho_]

s/pause/ports/

16:09:24 [odinho_]

s/XXX/mounir/

16:09:24 [hsivonen]

jgraham, consider <intent> objected to

16:09:24 [Lachy]

s/pause/port/

16:09:40 [Lachy]

Greg: It passes a structured clone.

16:10:18 [shan]

s/experiement/experiment/

16:10:29 [Lachy]

YYY: I wonder about the servicing page.

16:11:00 [Lachy]

Greg: The draft spec calls for ways to register dynamically as a extension or app with a manifest

16:11:02 [Lachy]

q?

16:11:04 [timeless]

q?

16:11:26 [efullea]

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16:12:33 [Lachy]

Greg: For Chrome 24, we were experiementing with an icon in the URL bar tha when clicked would should things like bookmark, share, etc. with some app that you have installed. That would use the intent system to link with apps.

16:12:49 [Lachy]

s/tha/that/

16:13:54 [npdoty]

q+ to follow up on the distinction between user-invoked and page-invoked

16:14:16 [Lachy]

sicking: The impression I got around intents is that hte hard part is building a user experience that basically satisfied the people we want to implement the intents. The actual mechanics of shuffling data from one tab to another is on the hard bit.

16:14:31 [MagnusOlsson]

s/YYY/MagnusOlsson/

16:14:32 [hsivonen]

timeless, I object to adding new elements to <head> and I object to adding new void elements

16:14:41 [Lachy]

Greg: It's like a two sided market. The hope is that there are lot of clients and services invoking and servicing intents. Getting that market is tough.

16:14:56 [Lachy]

… Our initial plan is using features like that dropdown I was talking about earlier.

16:15:25 [Lachy]

… The reason we don't have that in Chrome 24 is because of the UI problems we discoverd.

16:15:37 [Shinji]

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16:15:47 [Lachy]

… Having a bunch of eco systems set up around an API that was going to change wouldn't be the best plan. So we hid it behind a flag

16:15:49 [Lachy]

q?

16:16:05 [Lachy]

ack npdoty

16:16:05 [Zakim]

npdoty, you wanted to follow up on the distinction between user-invoked and page-invoked

16:16:07 [sicking]

q+

16:16:12 [MikeSmith]

q?

16:16:46 [Lachy]

npdoty: I mostly work on privacy in standards. To follow up, as I understand, the intents spec as it is now, the intents are done as service by a user clicking a button.

16:17:17 [Lachy]

… But a user could also potentially share any URL from teh browser UI, even if the page doesn't explicitly support the intent.

16:17:42 [Arno]

q+ to ask status on intents semantics

16:17:54 [Lachy]

Greg: The spec deals with it in a tangental way. It says that the intent may not be invoke by the API given and allows for the browser to get in the middle on one end or the other of the system.

16:18:21 [Lachy]

… The spec can't force the browser to do it, so it's allowed but not mandated in the spec.

16:19:25 [Lachy]

… I think we have a good sense of the interchange format to say how to transfer images or URLs as a data packet.

16:20:09 [Lachy]

sicking: We in Firefox had the need for something similar to this, but since web intents wasn't done, we did something else.

16:20:36 [Lachy]

… We have web activities which is similar. It has the same capabilities. Very much tied into apps. The user brings up an app, rather than a new tab.

16:21:32 [Lachy]

… one of the UI problems we had is that if you have multiple handlers for a given intent, you need to show some sort of UI so the user can choose.

16:21:40 [Lachy]

… what text string to you put in the title of that UI.

16:22:21 [Lachy]

… We put application names next to each option. I don't know if you can do that in your implementation, given that there is no trusted name for a website.

16:23:15 [Lachy]

Greg: In Chrome, the picker has a string that is related to the action that was performed by the user. There's a custom string per action and a generic one if we don't know what the action is. Something like "which service should we use?"

16:23:21 [Lachy]

Sicking: how do you describe the options?

16:23:47 [Lachy]

Greg: We think that using the name of the app is the most clear. The service can provide a custom string for this.

16:24:29 [Lachy]

… I think the reason that that ends up being useful than just the name of the application is that when you see the UI, you're picking an application.

16:25:01 [Lachy]

sicking: one problem is trust. It's possible to phish this.

16:25:20 [Lachy]

… I could change my icon and title to Bank of America, and fool the user.

16:25:42 [Lachy]

… It's part of the Chrome UI, so it feels more trustwothy, but in reality, it's part of the web content.

16:25:55 [Lachy]

Greg: That's a problem with the picker that we had.

16:26:33 [Lachy]

… That's one slice of the problem with using the picker that we discoverd. I agree there would be a phishing risk.

16:26:35 [timeless]

q+ to comment on that

16:26:41 [Lachy]

ack sicking

16:26:43 [timeless]

q+ to comment security concerns

16:26:44 [Lachy]

ack Arno

16:26:45 [Zakim]

Arno, you wanted to ask status on intents semantics

16:27:21 [Lachy]

Greg: The reason we were using a data URL is that there's a problem with web kit.

16:27:29 [Lachy]

… It's bug we need to fix.

16:27:47 [npdoty]

it seems like a concern that the picker also doesn't make it clear what kind of data is being passed along, in addition to it being uncertain whom you're passing the data to

16:28:08 [Lachy]

q?

16:28:08 [timeless]

ack me

16:28:09 [Zakim]

timeless, you wanted to comment on that and to comment security concerns

16:28:12 [Lachy]

ack timeless

16:28:40 [seo]

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16:28:51 [Lachy]

timeless: sicking asked about security concerns.All the browsers that ship have the ability to ask other services if a website is risky.

16:29:05 [Lachy]

… Firefox has the concept of how often you've been to a page.

16:29:06 [Arno]

The question was about wether or not there was a work on intent semantics, as for example on the edit intent when the intent "returned" the data could either be a datablob or a data : URL

16:29:42 [sangwhan]

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16:29:44 [Lachy]

… Been to Facebook a lot. Have not been to a phishing site a lot. I expect that that would be taken into account by the Ui when trying to counter phishing attempts.

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16:30:37 [Lachy]

Greg: Those are good points.

16:30:55 [Lachy]

… Some of those things are valuable to solve the problem.

16:31:09 [Lachy]

… We also only accept the API when it's a gesture

16:31:25 [Lachy]

q?

16:31:35 [Lachy]

ArtB: Are there other implementations?

16:32:07 [Lachy]

Greg: I think that someof the problesm I talked about with tabs would likely show up with web activities applied to the same kind of use cases.