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True, of course i was thinking more along the lines of that letting Jiraiya see how much Naruto has progressed.

So, Jiraiya's epic death scene should be ruined so that he can witness Naruto's progression? That sounds pretty horrible, and I'm glad he was allowed to rest in peace, and not have his last scene be ruined like some of the others who were ressurected. This idea sounds even worse than the other guy who was also begging for fan service when he complained about Madara not paying Naruto a compliment on how he's managed to use the kyuubi's powers to the extent he has. And here I thought this war arc already provided more than enough fan service for the fanboys, go figure.

ok i think this whole set up has madara written all over it.madara seem over confident when he told obito he would definitely come back.kakashi killing rin seem pretty real to me as kakashi was crying.i dont see how any clones or zetsus could be involved.about the part obito saying 'you let rin die' in 600 and the last page of 604 there has to be more to it.if im not wrong, after obito made that comment, kakashi even asked 'arent u going to blame me' so both obito and kakashi know that it wasnt kakashi's fault.

coming back to the whole madaras plan thingy...
i think this incident was staged by madara with the help of the mist.there was also something zetsu said abt the mist using guinea pigs.but from what i infer rin and kakashi were the real ones.so madara asks zetsu to inform obito about rin and kakashi being in danger and obito rushes out to save em, madara being super confident and saying u will thank me later ur sure to come back.madara needed someone to carry out his plans but the moment he found and saved obito,obito was so hesitant on returning to konoha.so madara had to cut his ties with konoha thus coming up with a plan to kill rin.but i wont just assume anything and just wait for next weeks chapter.about the eyes connecting and all i think its only when kakashi is a state of sadness that their eyes link or maybe a very strong emotion.

That's not really a plothole. Obviously Zetsu is already seeded pretty much all over the place. All he needs is a description and some time spying. Remember this stuff happens quite some time after Obito first fell into Madara's lair.

Again, I may be wrong about this, but "How would Zetsu know what they looked like?" isn't a good argument.

What would Madara gain by helping the world become more like what he hates?

it's more like manipulation than convincing. assuming madara set all this up, which i think he did, then his end goal is for obito to reach the same conclusion of moon's eye plan on his own. that's what master manipulators do. they make you think that their idea is actually your own idea (like inception). so by destroying obito's psyche by killing his crush at the hands of his best friend, it will then be easy to plant the seeds in his head and watch them grow just the way madara wants

I mean, so many signs are pointing at Madara/Zetsu planning this out especially Zetsu. Most likely that's a zetsu clone or all a Genjutsu. But idk i mean Obito is so strong now and you're gonna tell me that the last 20 years of his life was off of a lie? And that lie was over a crush he had when he was 12 years old? That's kinda stupid, but if it is true then Obito will obviously be convinced to join the Shinobi Alliance.

Still, Obito blamed Kakashi for letting Rin die, not killing her. That's the line that's making every1 scratch their heads. And if Kakashi really did kill Rin i don't see why Obito wouldn't have stepped in right there and screamed at Kakashi. Maybe Zetsu didn't let him, but we'll find out next chapter.

Kabuto's a failure for relying on overpowered abilities, and the numerous backlashes (suicides by some Edo Tensei'd people and workarounds by Madara, Itachi and Orochimaru) caused him his deserving defeat.

With that resolved, we still have the problem of the Kages critically wounded, and Madara and Obito preparing the seemingly unstoppable Moon's Eye Plan. (The Kages part is just an obvious Tsunade death flag to me.)

As for Obito's past and Rin being "penetrated" by Kakashi, I think that there's still a possibility that neither Tobi nor Madara is involved in this, and the Mist's sheer expertise in illusionary jutsu caused the teamkill. Heck, it could be some Mist-nin mook who contributed to Obito's descent to revenge!

One question though. If Obito can share visual information with Kakashi, why wasn't Kakashi able to harness that? It might have been useful in info gathering. (It's possible that there's a certain range for the "sight-sharing ability" to trigger.)

[You also now imagine Obito knowing the plot of the Icha-Icha series because he has been reading it using Kakashi's eyes. ]

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I still wonder if Obito saw what happened, because he has some sort of mental connection to the Sharingan, which originally was his own, or because it was what an instance of Zetsu saw.

i think it is obito's sharingan that he sees with since it gives a new meaning to his words that we mostly thought were figurative in KG when he told kakashi 'I can become your eye and see the future'. the perspective is that of kakashi's eye as well.

Quote:

If he can really see through Kakashi's Sharingan, how can it be, that he did't know it was a Kage Bunshin that got Kamuid by Kakashi.

well he would only be able to see 'naruto' whether its a clone or not. the sharingan can be fooled by clones, especially when in quick motion combat. itachi was fooled by kakashi's clone when they fought in the rescuing gaara arc for instance.

All Zetsu knew were the stories told to him by Obito...he doesn't find it a bit strange that zetsu is stalking his friends behind his back...

Zetsu told him that he is an android-like creature who is interested in humans, also he behaves very friendly, he pretends to care about Obito and his friends. So why would a 12 year old child doubt Zetsu's words, especially since Zetsu saved him from death and is now helping him. The only one in that cave who can freely move and observe any human without being noticed is Zetsu. No wonder that Madara knew everything about the leaf's secrets and so does Tobi. Tobi did know everything about Konoha so that he could attack when Kushina was in her weakest state, he also knows everything about Itachi and Danzou and that helped him to convert Sasuke to his side. Madara was just a mastermind behind the event but the one who did everything was Zetsu since apparently Madara can't move out of the cave and Zetsu is better in everything (even fighting since the old Madara doesn't have his rinnegan eyes and doesn't look like being able to fight).

So, Jiraiya's epic death scene should be ruined so that he can witness Naruto's progression? That sounds pretty horrible, and I'm glad he was allowed to rest in peace, and not have his last scene be ruined like some of the others who were ressurected. This idea sounds even worse than the other guy who was also begging for fan service when he complained about Madara not paying Naruto a compliment on how he's managed to use the kyuubi's powers to the extent he has. And here I thought this war arc already provided more than enough fan service for the fanboys, go figure.

@Amata Sora, while i agree with the wanna be tough guy here that bringing back jiraiya would have ruined his epic exit (guess that makes me and dodger here jiraiya fans) he will probably get at least an honorable mention should naruto manage to fine the solution to this current ninja world problem. much like he got in konans flashback. @Dodger: i have already explained that i wasn't looking for fan service. my handle is right up there to the left. feel free to aim your next shot directly at me and please, don't take so long next time...

Madara is obviously not "dead" in this situation, nor did Obito die. This chapter indicates they both are incapacitated and on life support from statue in that cavern. They are only "dead" because they aren't 100% of their former selves.

Obito just walks out with Zetsu's help of course back into reality either a few months or years later since the event from the bridge.

Since the statue and Zetsu have some sort of link to Shodaime..it is confusing who really won the fight at the Valley of the End.