If you read it it seems like she is disappointed that they threw their young lives away. She is not saying that the rapists are good people or that they don't deserve what they are about to expect, nor does she say anything bad about the victim or show the victim in any negative light.

Contrast that with FoxNews who quotes the mother of the young woman who was criminally assaulted saying "[This crime]does not define who my daughter is. She will persevere, grow and move on."

That is exactly the story that needs to be told. Crime victims, and especially victims of sexual battery, are indeed victims. The criminals are not to be pitied for their poor choices, they are to be imprisoned.

Like Fox News or not (and I don't really watch any of the cable news) that is the right story, not how these two idiots ruined their lives by engaging in criminal sexual battery and other crimes. Screw them.

If you read it it seems like she is disappointed that they threw their young lives away. She is not saying that the rapists are good people or that they don't deserve what they are about to expect, nor does she say anything bad about the victim or show the victim in any negative light.

TLDR; she could have said it better

Why be an apologist for these 'journalists'? They insist on giving us opinion rather than news. Journalism is dead in this country, we have hand wringing actors who bring us snippets of news cloaked in opinion and maudlin sentimentality.

If you read it it seems like she is disappointed that they threw their young lives away. She is not saying that the rapists are good people or that they don't deserve what they are about to expect, nor does she say anything bad about the victim or show the victim in any negative light.

TLDR; she could have said it better

The problem is that no one even gives a shiat about the victim. I don't care AT ALL what a rapist's future plans were, and I CERTAINLY don't think those plans should be part and parcel of the post-verdict discussion.

"The accused planned to buy a home in No Rape County, Utah- however, the county has numerous schools, and it is unlikely he will be able to find a home more than 500 yards from school property. It is currently unknown where he plans to move once he leaves prison." -five news stations

"Man, what's the guy's CURRENT house going to be worth when he gets out? #plansruined #farkfeminism" -twitter

If you read it it seems like she is disappointed that they threw their young lives away. She is not saying that the rapists are good people or that they don't deserve what they are about to expect, nor does she say anything bad about the victim or show the victim in any negative light.

TLDR; she could have said it better

Why be an apologist for these 'journalists'? They insist on giving us opinion rather than news. Journalism is dead in this country, we have hand wringing actors who bring us snippets of news cloaked in opinion and maudlin sentimentality.

Apologist?

Motherfarker I am always biatching about the media being News Entertainment (coined in the spirit of Vince McMahon's Sports Entertainment) instead of real news.

kingoomieiii:The problem is that no one even gives a shiat about the victim. I don't care AT ALL what a rapist's future plans were, and I CERTAINLY don't think those plans should be part and parcel of the post-verdict discussion.

That is kind of a difficult subject for discussion on news stations.

Most times news organizations dont name the victims of sexual assault, especially when they are minors.

It is very likely that the people who are on news TV (such as pundits) have no basic information. What do we know about her? She's 16 and she went to a party and got drunk. Not much to go on.

cman:kingoomieiii: The problem is that no one even gives a shiat about the victim. I don't care AT ALL what a rapist's future plans were, and I CERTAINLY don't think those plans should be part and parcel of the post-verdict discussion.

That is kind of a difficult subject for discussion on news stations.

Most times news organizations dont name the victims of sexual assault, especially when they are minors.

It is very likely that the people who are on news TV (such as pundits) have no basic information. What do we know about her? She's 16 and she went to a party and got drunk. Not much to go on.

I guess if it were legal to NOT fill 24 hours of news with schlock they might have been able to stop the story at the verdict itself.

Poppy Harlow: "... had such promising futures, star football player, very good students...."

Just as an aside; would they have been talking about these boys ruining their lives if they were not football players? If they had been, perhaps, very good students and members of the school band?

The lack of interest in the victim doesn't surprise me at all. I've known that since the beginning of the Penn State scandal when so people were all broke up over losing a coach and had no sympathy for the alleged victims.

Philbb:Just as an aside; would they have been talking about these boys ruining their lives if they were not football players? If they had been, perhaps, very good students and members of the school band?

From Gawker-

For readers interested in learning more about how not to be labeled as registered sex offenders, a good first step is not to rape unconscious women, no matter how good your grades are. Regardless of the strength of your GPA (weighted or unweighted), if you commit rape, there is a possibility you may someday be convicted of a sex crime. This is because of your decision to commit a sex crime instead of going for a walk, or reading a book by Cormac McCarthy. Your ability to perform calculus or play football is generally not taken into consideration in a court of law. Should you prefer to be known as "Good student and excellent football player Trent Mays" rather than "Convicted sex offender Trent Mays," try stressing the studying and tackling and giving the sex crimes a miss altogether.

kingoomieiii:Philbb: Just as an aside; would they have been talking about these boys ruining their lives if they were not football players? If they had been, perhaps, very good students and members of the school band?

From Gawker-

For readers interested in learning more about how not to be labeled as registered sex offenders, a good first step is not to rape unconscious women, no matter how good your grades are. Regardless of the strength of your GPA (weighted or unweighted), if you commit rape, there is a possibility you may someday be convicted of a sex crime. This is because of your decision to commit a sex crime instead of going for a walk, or reading a book by Cormac McCarthy. Your ability to perform calculus or play football is generally not taken into consideration in a court of law. Should you prefer to be known as "Good student and excellent football player Trent Mays" rather than "Convicted sex offender Trent Mays," try stressing the studying and tackling and giving the sex crimes a miss altogether.

kingoomieiii:Philbb: Just as an aside; would they have been talking about these boys ruining their lives if they were not football players? If they had been, perhaps, very good students and members of the school band?

From Gawker-

For readers interested in learning more about how not to be labeled as registered sex offenders, a good first step is not to rape unconscious women, no matter how good your grades are. Regardless of the strength of your GPA (weighted or unweighted), if you commit rape, there is a possibility you may someday be convicted of a sex crime. This is because of your decision to commit a sex crime instead of going for a walk, or reading a book by Cormac McCarthy. Your ability to perform calculus or play football is generally not taken into consideration in a court of law. Should you prefer to be known as "Good student and excellent football player Trent Mays" rather than "Convicted sex offender Trent Mays," try stressing the studying and tackling and giving the sex crimes a miss altogether.

Of course there's not a single thing that I disagree with there. I'm talking about commentary and news coverage not a court of law. I ask because I have only seen one article/story about this that didn't mention they were football players.

GAT_00:bronyaur1: I find it curious that those who defend Fox journalism all of a sudden are outraged about this.

Meh, they have something legitimate to smear CNN with for a change. Of course, since nobody actually watches CNN, this is really not doing a whole lot, but they like to pretend they matter.

GAT_00:bronyaur1: I find it curious that those who defend Fox journalism all of a sudden are outraged about this.

Meh, they have something legitimate to smear CNN with for a change. Of course, since nobody actually watches CNN, this is really not doing a whole lot, but they like to pretend they matter.

I don't really watch any of the cable news stations (or broadcast news stations in the US for that matter) save the local cable one. Not that you can see this because you ignore opinions that are not in lockstep with yours.

Meh, people can talk to the points of the victim not putting themselves in compromising situations, but the fact remains that you don't take sexual advantage of people who are not able to defend or consent for themselves. I'm sure these boys have been told this, if not, then their parents failed them, because anymore, you damn well better have a talk to your kid about legalities of such behavior.

/sad for both sides//but it's hard to garner any sympathy for the boys

These young men are damn lucky to have gotten off this easy, and not in someplace, like say, Texas, where a judge might have looked askance if the young men happened to have had horrible accidents like falling onto a couple of baseball bats several dozen times, or drowned themselves in their own toilets...

feckingmorons:GAT_00: bronyaur1: I find it curious that those who defend Fox journalism all of a sudden are outraged about this.

Meh, they have something legitimate to smear CNN with for a change. Of course, since nobody actually watches CNN, this is really not doing a whole lot, but they like to pretend they matter.

GAT_00: bronyaur1: I find it curious that those who defend Fox journalism all of a sudden are outraged about this.

Meh, they have something legitimate to smear CNN with for a change. Of course, since nobody actually watches CNN, this is really not doing a whole lot, but they like to pretend they matter.

I don't really watch any of the cable news stations (or broadcast news stations in the US for that matter) save the local cable one. Not that you can see this because you ignore opinions that are not in lockstep with yours.

What pisses me off to no end is that the American media goes and acts like the US is so superior to India when covering the Delhi gang rape case, but then they turn around and do the exact same victim blaming and feeling sorry for the rapists that they love to point fingers about when it happens elsewhere.

rynthetyn:What pisses me off to no end is that the American media goes and acts like the US is so superior to India when covering the Delhi gang rape case, but then they turn around and do the exact same victim blaming and feeling sorry for the rapists that they love to point fingers about when it happens elsewhere.

You're not the first to make the comparison and it's most certainly a fair and accurate one. Anyone that denies we live in a rape culture isn't paying attention.

Genevieve Marie:rynthetyn: What pisses me off to no end is that the American media goes and acts like the US is so superior to India when covering the Delhi gang rape case, but then they turn around and do the exact same victim blaming and feeling sorry for the rapists that they love to point fingers about when it happens elsewhere.

You're not the first to make the comparison and it's most certainly a fair and accurate one. Anyone that denies we live in a rape culture isn't paying attention.

At least people in India are starting to admit they have a problem, most Americans are convinced that we're all find and dandy.

One of my friends (and occasional farker) took part in this demonstration in Delhi this week where men held signs apologizing and making the statement that the change starts with them. I'd be shocked to ever see something like that here in the US.

rynthetyn:Genevieve Marie: rynthetyn: What pisses me off to no end is that the American media goes and acts like the US is so superior to India when covering the Delhi gang rape case, but then they turn around and do the exact same victim blaming and feeling sorry for the rapists that they love to point fingers about when it happens elsewhere.

You're not the first to make the comparison and it's most certainly a fair and accurate one. Anyone that denies we live in a rape culture isn't paying attention.

At least people in India are starting to admit they have a problem, most Americans are convinced that we're all find and dandy.

One of my friends (and occasional farker) took part in this demonstration in Delhi this week where men held signs apologizing and making the statement that the change starts with them. I'd be shocked to ever see something like that here in the US.

Same. See: Any thread ever where a feminist points out that we need to teach sexual consent to teenagers, i.e. that women need to be taught that it's ok to say yes when we want to have sex and that young men need to be taught to firmly respect a "no".

The idea that men need to be taught not to rape makes people furious, but I mean... watch the video embedded in this link. The young men talking clearly haven't been taught not to rape. They haven't been taught to respect sexual boundaries. And the scary part is they aren't out of the ordinary! These guys remind me of numerous boys I knew in high school and college.

Genevieve Marie:rynthetyn: Genevieve Marie: rynthetyn: What pisses me off to no end is that the American media goes and acts like the US is so superior to India when covering the Delhi gang rape case, but then they turn around and do the exact same victim blaming and feeling sorry for the rapists that they love to point fingers about when it happens elsewhere.

You're not the first to make the comparison and it's most certainly a fair and accurate one. Anyone that denies we live in a rape culture isn't paying attention.

At least people in India are starting to admit they have a problem, most Americans are convinced that we're all find and dandy.

One of my friends (and occasional farker) took part in this demonstration in Delhi this week where men held signs apologizing and making the statement that the change starts with them. I'd be shocked to ever see something like that here in the US.

Same. See: Any thread ever where a feminist points out that we need to teach sexual consent to teenagers, i.e. that women need to be taught that it's ok to say yes when we want to have sex and that young men need to be taught to firmly respect a "no".

The idea that men need to be taught not to rape makes people furious, but I mean... watch the video embedded in this link. The young men talking clearly haven't been taught not to rape. They haven't been taught to respect sexual boundaries. And the scary part is they aren't out of the ordinary! These guys remind me of numerous boys I knew in high school and college.

I hate to say this, but rape is part of humanity. It is an aspect of the animal kingdom as well. Even though we are an enlightened species we still have those who either dont care about others or those who have no self control. How do you teach against that?

You cannot teach a man to feel emotions. Emotions must come from within. They dont care about their victims. To them they are more important than anyone else in the world.

We can never stop it. However, there are things that we can do to minimize it. Although some people might not care about others, they sure as shiat do care what others think of them. Humans are social animals. They need other people. Shunning sexual abusers from the community and making their lives a living hell may get them to think that the reward is not worth the risk.

Well, for starters, we teach them to view other people as fully human. We don't teach young men that women are stupid, annoying, nags that only exist to be farked.

We also teach all young people a real idea of sexual consent. That sex is a healthy, positive thing as long as appropriate health precautions are taken and as long as both parties enthusiastically consent. We teach teenagers that sex isn't something that makes a boy a man and makes a woman a whore- we teach them that sex is something positive when both parties want it and it's gone into willingly and responsibly.

Genevieve Marie:rynthetyn: Genevieve Marie: rynthetyn: What pisses me off to no end is that the American media goes and acts like the US is so superior to India when covering the Delhi gang rape case, but then they turn around and do the exact same victim blaming and feeling sorry for the rapists that they love to point fingers about when it happens elsewhere.

You're not the first to make the comparison and it's most certainly a fair and accurate one. Anyone that denies we live in a rape culture isn't paying attention.

At least people in India are starting to admit they have a problem, most Americans are convinced that we're all find and dandy.

One of my friends (and occasional farker) took part in this demonstration in Delhi this week where men held signs apologizing and making the statement that the change starts with them. I'd be shocked to ever see something like that here in the US.

Same. See: Any thread ever where a feminist points out that we need to teach sexual consent to teenagers, i.e. that women need to be taught that it's ok to say yes when we want to have sex and that young men need to be taught to firmly respect a "no".

The idea that men need to be taught not to rape makes people furious, but I mean... watch the video embedded in this link. The young men talking clearly haven't been taught not to rape. They haven't been taught to respect sexual boundaries. And the scary part is they aren't out of the ordinary! These guys remind me of numerous boys I knew in high school and college.

Yeah, it reminds me of how I created a minor shiatstorm in undergrad by objecting when a student posted the "Fourteen Biblical Ways to Find a Wife" as humor on the campus discussion board (something like this, only worse) in which one of the ways was, "Rape a virgin, then she'll have to marry you." It wasn't something where people were pointing out that you shouldn't emulate everything in the Bible, dude posted it because he genuinely thought it was funny. When I objected to the "rape a virgin" one, I got told that I lacked a sense of humor, and when I suggested that the fact that so many people thought rape jokes were funny certainly didn't make me feel any safer on campus I was told that I was being irrational and, "you can't possibly think that anybody is going to rape you." Some of the faculty stood up for me in saying that rape jokes weren't acceptable, but for the most part the student body acted like I was some sort of over-sensitive whiner.

Oh, and lest people who are reading this and remember that I've said I went to a conservative school for undergrad think it was a function of the school I went to, in crim law at my large, tier 1, state university there was an awful lot of pissed off former athletes and frat boys when the crim law professor said that sports teams and fraternities have a well-documented problem with the concept of consent and gang rape. People weren't exactly fond of her making clear that drunk women can't consent under any circumstance.

That's actually what feminists mean when we say purity culture is rape culture. Sex is something humans are always going to desire, and when we turn it into this forbidden, dirty thing- really bad dynamics emerge.

If you listen to the justifications a lot of people from this town made, they centered around the idea that this girl was a whore. That she was dirty and therefore brought this on herself.

That's rape culture. That's how it works. It's the idea that a woman who has consented to sex a few times has therefore consented to sex all of the time. It's the idea that a girl who wears something too revealing (And those standards are totally arbitrary) is asking to be raped. It's all the messed up ideas that surround this dynamic where men are supposed to want sex all the time and women are supposed to acknowledge that and fend it off at all times.

I completely disagree with that, though I understand your frustration, and I share it as best I can, as a dude. But we have to work together on this, and terms we see like "rape culture" are only a divisive sideshow, IMHO. If we can put that nonsense aside perhaps we can get to addressing the issue.

violentsalvation:rynthetyn: most Americans are convinced that we're all fine and dandy.

I completely disagree with that, though I understand your frustration, and I share it as best I can, as a dude. But we have to work together on this, and terms we see like "rape culture" are only a divisive sideshow, IMHO. If we can put that nonsense aside perhaps we can get to addressing the issue.

... how are terms like "rape culture" a divisive sideshow when the issue we're talking about is a culture that blames victims of rape and makes excuses for rapists?

Genevieve Marie:That's actually what feminists mean when we say purity culture is rape culture. Sex is something humans are always going to desire, and when we turn it into this forbidden, dirty thing- really bad dynamics emerge.

If you listen to the justifications a lot of people from this town made, they centered around the idea that this girl was a whore. That she was dirty and therefore brought this on herself.

That's rape culture. That's how it works. It's the idea that a woman who has consented to sex a few times has therefore consented to sex all of the time. It's the idea that a girl who wears something too revealing (And those standards are totally arbitrary) is asking to be raped. It's all the messed up ideas that surround this dynamic where men are supposed to want sex all the time and women are supposed to acknowledge that and fend it off at all times.

That's not healthy. This is what it creates.

I grew up smack dab in the middle of purity culture (like, for reals, a bunch of my friends were the sort who wore shapeless denim jumpers and courtship was king), and it was pretty absurd how it made girls afraid of showing even the slightest bit too much skin but there was almost nothing telling guys not to be creepy pervs. It's all about telling girls not to dress in a way that might cause a guy to lust. This was during that unfortunate era when dresses like this (but with big puffy sleeves) were popular and girls I knew who were 10 or 11 would talk about how they weren't allowed to wear them because they "point at women's privates." But again, never any message about how the only people who would be thinking that looking at a young girl are complete and total pervs.

I'm not entirely sure how, probably because my parents put virtually no restrictions on what I read and I ended up reading the right sort of books and articles, but I never bought into the idea that it was somehow a woman's fault if she's assaulted. If I'd been paying attention to the messages I was getting from the culture around me though, I would have come to totally different conclusions.

Genevieve Marie:violentsalvation: rynthetyn: most Americans are convinced that we're all fine and dandy.

I completely disagree with that, though I understand your frustration, and I share it as best I can, as a dude. But we have to work together on this, and terms we see like "rape culture" are only a divisive sideshow, IMHO. If we can put that nonsense aside perhaps we can get to addressing the issue.

... how are terms like "rape culture" a divisive sideshow when the issue we're talking about is a culture that blames victims of rape and makes excuses for rapists?

Also, I didn't even mention "rape culture". Bringing it up as a deflection is just another way of making excuses to avoid dealing with the problem.

rynthetyn:I'm not entirely sure how, probably because my parents put virtually no restrictions on what I read and I ended up reading the right sort of books and articles, but I never bought into the idea that it was somehow a woman's fault if she's assaulted. If I'd been paying attention to the messages I was getting from the culture around me though, I would have come to totally different conclusions.

God bless Judy Blume. She saved a generation of women from growing up with weird ideas about sex.

rynthetyn:Genevieve Marie: violentsalvation: rynthetyn: most Americans are convinced that we're all fine and dandy.

I completely disagree with that, though I understand your frustration, and I share it as best I can, as a dude. But we have to work together on this, and terms we see like "rape culture" are only a divisive sideshow, IMHO. If we can put that nonsense aside perhaps we can get to addressing the issue.

... how are terms like "rape culture" a divisive sideshow when the issue we're talking about is a culture that blames victims of rape and makes excuses for rapists?

Also, I didn't even mention "rape culture". Bringing it up as a deflection is just another way of making excuses to avoid dealing with the problem.

Yup. Typical concern troll derailing of the subject.

"I agree with you there's a problem, but we can only talk about it in terms that I am comfortable with which sidestep that problem and don't acknowledge this exists, and somehow, this will solve everything."

Genevieve Marie:rynthetyn: I'm not entirely sure how, probably because my parents put virtually no restrictions on what I read and I ended up reading the right sort of books and articles, but I never bought into the idea that it was somehow a woman's fault if she's assaulted. If I'd been paying attention to the messages I was getting from the culture around me though, I would have come to totally different conclusions.

God bless Judy Blume. She saved a generation of women from growing up with weird ideas about sex.

I actually never read Judy Blume. My reading material was either what my mom checked out of the library for us to read or books that I came across in the library that looked interesting, and Judy Blume never fell into either category. I read tons of what I now know were highly subversive children's authors though, not to mention that I was checking books out of the main section of the library from when I was in 2nd or 3rd grade with very little supervision, so who knows.