So more funsies: WW texted me this morning to ask me to buy annual passes (4) to the local theme park so we wouldn't "have to take our 2 kids to Disneyland so much" (we, kimosabi? And 4 passes, seriously? the broke-ass ex-con lover I know she's taking my kids out with can't even spring for his own pass?). She also said she knew I hated her without waiting for a response from me on the passes. Of course I said no to the passes, as I just rented a place and left a retainer for a L. As soon as we can do mediation and we know how much each of us is going to have monthly, I can revisit. Right now, I'm just hoping to be able to make the next rent plus my mortgage! It's amazing she continues to try to manipulate me to "get stuff" to this day!

I broke NC a bit just to be very clear back and avoid more of these manipulation attempts going forward. I texted back that I don't hate her, and I wish her the best, but I'm done allowing her or anybody else to hurt me. I'm healing on my own, by myself, because she didn't stop her other relationship, and I hope she heals too. I will do right by my children and their mother (i.e. WW), not because she deserves it but simply because that's the kind of person I am. And if and when she starts worrying about me as a person and not just in terms of how it affects her, friendship may even be in the cards in the far future. In the meantime, I wish her the best, and I'll continue my life on my own.

I didn't tell her this of course, but last night I realized I no longer care as much if she's still seeing OM. I've emotionally detached, and I'm feeling pretty darn good about that (living on my own has helped. A lot. Such peace!). That her antics this morning have not affected my mood (I'm already ok, and it's only been an hour) is a very good sign.

I'm in good spirits, I'm talking to friends again about topics not A related (and you all are awesome too!), and I'm busy with work and thinking of stuff to do on my own.

I totally agree that she was fishing and testing boundaries a bit here. Trying to figure out how much more she might be able to get away with, on some level.

And good for you for shutting her down. This kind of NC break, in some ways, is good I think. I do think crickets are even better... but you have children and I've seen on these boards that that makes NC a lot harder. And something like these passes don't seem crucial to me (so not the kind of business-about-the-children kind of exception you necessarily have to make a part from NC), but still in that ambit.

But my advice is the following:

(1) It does seem like you used this one little door crack to say a lot. Kind of like you had a lot built up and used this opportunity to say it.

IMHO, that allows them to feed off of you, even though your intention is totally the opposite. You hand over a little bit of cake when they see that they can still get under your skin.

(2) I agree that the ideal is that you can be friends in order to co-parent. But I wouldn't say that to her right now. She might read that as "see, it's going to work out for the best" and take it as justification for what she's done, on some level. I know that seems odd, but these WW are a little crazy.

I remember by XWS saying that to me after DDay. He literally said "I've been thinking that maybe this one I can be friends with after this is all over." THIS ONE?!!?!?!?!? How touching. How loving. My blood boils when I think about it.

I don't mean to be too critical. I just worry that some of your good guy instincts might be taken the wrong way. When you say something like:

I will do right by my children and their mother (i.e. WW), not because she deserves it but simply because that's the kind of person I am.

I read that as you saying "I'm a good guy"... when she might read it as "Good... he's still my chump."

((hugs))

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 1:57 PM, January 5th (Sunday)]

BS / D

Posts: 883 | Registered: Jun 2013

GotPlayed♂ 41294Member # 41294

Posted: 2:23 PM, January 5th (Sunday), 2014

Thanks @PhantomLimb.

Yes, with kids it's harder. We will never be able to avoid each other, so keeping things civil is critical. I care about my kids, and I do want them to do things like going to the theme park. So I can't ignore a request like that without her complaining about my care for the kids. It's a very clever "damned if you do" ploy, in a way.

And yes, I probably did say too much as it was pent up. Still, because this is bothering me a lot less than I thought it would, I don't care if she continues to think she's cake-eating. It's going to be over soon.

Why? Because she's unrepentant and I don't see her changing. And oddly I'm at peace with it now. This complete lack of repentance and blame-shifting makes things simple, once I stop caring about what she does, which I have. I'll go through the legal process and get it over with. I make myself no illusions anymore about her coming back. If she changes and then years from now she romances me to try to remarry I'll make her sign a pre-nup first.

At some point soon after D-Day she said OM was "not marriage material" and I was, and she was very angry because she knew I'd find someone else fast, as I'm in my "looking distinguished" phase of life. She was actually angry about this (WS thinking is soooo strange!).

And just like she may take what I tell her with a different intent that I mean, I take that chat today as knowing that I'll be ok. Not in a hurry to jump back into anything, but I'm hopeful and confident again. Probably not what she was intending when she told me.

About her reading I'm still a chump, maybe. But I'm a chump with a lawyer now

But thank you. I'm back to NC. The next few weeks are going to be interesting.

I am a little confused about how much you think you need her in your life "FOR THE KIDS" I also have kids and a remorseless wayward but I take them on vacations alone now. Why would you have to buy her anything? pay your child support and take care of your kids when they are with you let her fend for herself. Also I know how hard the NC is especially in the beginning but no contact is no contact. Crickets is always best in my opinion. I do understand because I slipped up a lot also in beginning but now I am NC for 3 months and it is great for recovery, Stay strong wishing you well

"respect? you don't deserve it, you won't get any from me unless you earn it"

Posts: 1028 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: nyc

PhantomLimb♀ 39668Member # 39668

Posted: 6:48 PM, January 5th (Sunday), 2014

If she changes and then years from now she romances me to try to remarry I'll make her sign a pre-nup first.

Personally, GP, I think you're still in the thick of managing your emotions and accepting what's going on if you can even joke about this.

Once you can really, truly look at your Wayward for what they really are (broken, sad)... you won't even able to type these words without vomiting in your mouth a little.

You're still early in the process. No need to rush your healing or fake it until you make it. Allow yourself to mourn (while pushing ahead with NC and the D).

I found out in late April and my friends and family say it took me until about October to start to seem like myself again. Just to give you a time table.

And, even then, I cried through the holidays.

But, by God, I maintain NC come hell or high water.

BS / D

Posts: 883 | Registered: Jun 2013

DeadMumWalking♀ 25341Member # 25341

Posted: 7:06 PM, January 5th (Sunday), 2014

I do want them to do things like going to the theme park

Um, how come YOU can't take them?

I broke NC a bit just to be very clear back and avoid more of these manipulation attempts going forward.

Every time you break NC, you are teaching her that these manipulation attempts WORK. So rather than avoid them, you are reinforcing the exact behavior that you don't want.

NC. If it's not about kids (and I mean 'kid 1 is at the emergency room with a broken leg', and NOT 'you need to buy ME 4 passes, it's for the kids), or about finances (like 'copay on kid 1's ER trip is $$, so your half is $' and NOT 'you need to buy ME 4 passes, it's $$ for the kids), then you DON'T need to engage.

NC is for your protection, for your healing. The more you adhere to NC, the faster you will get to a better place.

Not to be a broken record, but DMW makes a really good point when she highlights this:

I broke NC a bit just to be very clear back and avoid more of these manipulation attempts going forward.

That is a coping strategy that is not about the kids or her, it's about you.

I'll give you an example. I was looking through some files for something I need next week. I came across a presentation that XWS gave a couple of years ago, and I remembered that this was the only remaining copy.

If I were in a different place, I would think that I NEED to send/email this file to XWS. I could come up with all kinds of reasons why. Because it would be wrong for me to keep it and I'd hope he'd do the same for me. To show him that I can be civil. That I need to demonstrate that I can still be professional, because we're in the same field, etc etc etc.

Bottom line: too bad. If he wanted this file, he should have remembered to take it. And, when he realizes it's gone, he'll just have to mentally file it under "more shit I lost" for being an evil, vicious, lying sociopath.

Similarly, WW has lost her funding supply for fun time to the theme park. She can suck it up.

BS / D

Posts: 883 | Registered: Jun 2013

BAB61♀ 41181Member # 41181

Posted: 9:51 PM, January 5th (Sunday), 2014

((GP)) I read your post and was like, yeah .. I can see that .. then I read everyone else's and was like 'oh shit ... yeah .. I can totally see that' cause I'm just about in the same place you are. Dang ... 2 steps forward, 2 step back. NC, NC, NC ... it's what WE have to do. Now things are slightly different, by STBX is the bread-winner and I'm a slightly disabled (had 1 hip replacement, need the other done) Stay-At-Home-Mom. Have to get fixed up before I can go out and make the moolah. I will be able to tho, I'm a Licensed Massage Therapist .. so no worries, I'll be able to support myself soon enough. In the meantime STBX is going to have to do that.

@DeadMumWalking I will definitely take them to the park myself. In fact they've been with me more than with her this entire year (which of course left her lots of time to pursue the A with OM). She just won't agree on any schedule other than ad-hoc one day here and there right now. You're definitely right about NC though. I'm shooting to take them next weekend. I don't want to take them to the same place she suggested (conflict avoidance), but we'll find an equally fun place to go.

And @DeadMumWalking, you're right. It reinforced the behavior. Dang. I got another two texts tonight. One saying that I no longer loved her, another one saying she's alone, by choice, that she hurt me and can never fix that, and that we would go through with D but to know that she is alone. That was an hour and a half ago. Didn't text anything back, and I won't.

Not biting this time. I'm certainly not going to be played a fourth time (she already got 3 chances to repent and recover; she blew them all).

@PhantomLimb, "lost her funding supply for fun time to the theme park" - You're funny!

Let me tell you a little story about doing right by the XWW. A few years ago my XW called me up stating that I would have to drive my DS to school because she could not afford her car insurance. At the time I was still working and my schedule was much earlier then hers. I got to work at 7:30 am and my DS school time was 8:00 am, so there was no chance of me being able to drive him to school. She was unemployed at the time and was collecting for that. She also was getting a hefty CS of $1400.00 a month and I was still paying temp SS to the tune of an additional $600.00. Her bills totaled around $1200.00 monthly and I could not understand her financial dilemma. Her income was $2K monthly from me plus $500.00 a week in unemployment. Not bad for a person who did not have to work. Plus she had another MM who worked nights and spent most of his days with her. I asked where her money went and she gave me this bullshit story about her car breaking down and it cost $1500.00 to fix. As it was a new car still under warranty it sounded fishy to me. BTW this was the same car I had given her in the D settlement. But I gave her the benefit of the doubt and asked how much her insurance was. It was just under $500.00 and I paid it directly to the insurance company myself.

A few months go by and she has a falling out with her sister who I kept sporadic contact with. Mostly hello how you been type of shit. Anyhow XSIL calls me up one day and we are chatting and she tells me of the falling out she had with my XW. During the conversation she tells me that XW had loaned her MM BF $1500.00 and he never paid her back. As the insurance thing was still on my mind I asked when she lent the BF the money and wont you know it that was the exact time she could not pay her insurance. Apparently BF who was basically a middle aged bum who at the age of 45 had a dead end job and was still trying to make it in the comic book business had a brilliant money making idea. He wanted to have tee shirts made of some comic book character and sell them online and make huge profits. She lent him the $1500.00 to make the shirts. Only they never sold and he stiffed her on the money. Not only that he broke up with her when she ask for the money back. I did not know this guy too well as he was not the original OM, just one of a string of MM that my XW went through after the D.

So as it turned out I paid her insurance because she gave her MM of the month money to buy tee shirts. This is what happens when you do the right thing by the WW. Boy did I feel like an asshole. I was livid and naturally XW would not admit to this happening and claimed her sister was just making trouble. But who could make up a story like that just to cause trouble ? I found out who this dude was and where he lived and had a friend of mine who was of ill repute pay him a visit. My friend was able to collect $1200.00 of the money over time and I got my $500.00 back. My friend took $250.00 for his troubles and I gave her the rest. It was funny because the BF acknowledged the debt and knew it was in his best interest to pay up. But she insisted that the whole thing never happened. But she took the cash all the same. So my friend I hope this little story explains to you what happens when you "Do the right thing by WW" Don't be a sucker like I was.

You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 6851 | Registered: Nov 2007

SBB♀ 35229Member # 35229

Posted: 3:44 AM, January 6th (Monday), 2014

we, kimosabi?

I'm totally stealing this.

I can't say "we", "our" or "my" in relation to him or that M. I just can't. I cringe whenever I read "my STBX" on here. That whorebag ain't mine. I have a no returns policy in regards to all trash I put out.

You've said your peace - now no more ego kibbles for her. Starve that fucker. Starve her good.

There is no way to 'avoid more these manipulations'. You cannot control her fuckery but you can control how much you let it impact you.

My standard line is: "Please stop with the unsolicited and unnecessary contact." then I go dark.

But nothing beats crickets from the get go. Lets that fuckwit know exactly how irrelevant he is to me.

Post responses here. Make them angry, venty and/or as funny as hell. It helps, it really does.

I did just that last year. See the submissions for SI Code for NC:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=484659

4 annual passes..... the fucking cheek of it.

I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 6000 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia

Freeme♀ 31946Member # 31946

Posted: 6:14 AM, January 6th (Monday), 2014

you're right. It reinforced the behavior. Dang. I got another two texts tonight. One saying that I no longer loved her, another one saying she's alone, by choice, that she hurt me and can never fix that, and that we would go through with D but to know that she is alone. That was an hour and a half ago. Didn't text anything back, and I won't.

You would have been all over this a week ago. Crickets today! You are doing great.

Posts: 1726 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Washington DC

GotPlayed♂ 41294Member # 41294

Posted: 9:08 AM, January 6th (Monday), 2014

Thank you @Freeme.

What drives me up the wall about even this last attempt is that not once has she said she misses me, loves me or any sentiment that is positive for a relationship or recovery; that is not a pity party and all about her and her problems. It's almost like she's reverted to a moody teenager.

Her problems. She's currently living in a house in a gated community that I pay for, with my kids, and not having to work. She doesn't miss me or love me (got the ILYBINILWY months ago, before DDay), she may or may not be having boyfriend troubles but is continuing to live the high life on my dime.

In the meantime I'm in a comparatively janky little house, unable to see my kids without asking her for "permission" because she won't agree to a schedule, with the cheapest ikea furniture I could find (also went to the goodwill), and eating as frugally as humanly possible even though I have a difficult and very busy full time job, after being cheated on and being made irrelevant, none of it through fault of my own, all of it without complaint. But it should all be about her problems.

And I'm thinking now, seriously? No thought of me, no affection to be shown even for old times' sake but somehow let's worry about how this affects you? It's actually making it easier to detach in a sense. I'm in my 40s, I can't be babysitting teenagers unless they're my kids. And I still have a few years before that.

So all of this is what I'm not saying. Instead, crickets.

I see my L today. Can't wait to have a strategy. I hope the next few months and D proceedings go fast.

GP - Amazing how similar our situations are. Every time I had any communication with her it promptly turned to how hard this was going to be on HER and anger over what other people thought of HER and how SHE will be adversely impacted if she has to pay me child support. She even had the gaul to say that WE normally do XYZ on Christmas Eve and was shocked that I wasn't doing the same with the kids. I quickly responded that there is no more "We".

My kids will be spending the next couple nights in my new rental house. I splurged a little on the furniture (on credit) because unlike you she has the means to pay on the old house herself.

No contact from her other than barbs from her on things I "stole" from the house and nickel and diming me over kid's expenses that she is adding to my "bill" (I owe her for half of December's expenses). I did not respond at all. Like you I am still experiencing many unresolved emotions and need to stay focused on NC though it is very difficult. I am spending alot of energy and time getting the new house ready but I am fearful of the times when that activity dies down. Stay strong brother.

Me: 44 stbXW: 44
Married 17 years - Known each other 30 years
ILYBINILWY - February 2013
My Mom passed away - February 2013
Bomb drop - March 2013
Discovered A - April 2013
Moved out - January 2014
Divorce Hearing - March 2014
S - 15; D-12

Posts: 7 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Massachusetts

pregnantandsad♀ 40141Member # 40141

Posted: 12:24 PM, January 6th (Monday), 2014

Good for you for not responding to her additional messages. I know how hard it is to keep silent, but it really does help. And 4 passes? Maybe if she wanted you to split the cost of the kids passes with you, but 4 means she wants you to pay for hers too, right? That's some nerve. I just bought DD4 and I annual passes and I wont even let the ex know about it. If he wants to take her to Disneyland he can buy a ticket, not use the pass I am paying for. But maybe I am just mean.

That is why I offered you PM when you were trying to decide whether to move out. Our overall situations are uncannily similar. PM offer still stands of course.

In my case she just acts the victim. My therapist (who saw her individually as well until she cancelled IC and MC) says he's worried about her, because what she's doing is self-destructive. Lots of FOO issues there. Our common friends tell me she's canceling appointments left and right with them and they are also worried about her.

But now neither you or I have to worry about that. They're no longer our problem.

When activity dies down (and even before) I will find something to do on my own (some posts here in SI have lists of hobbies to try). I may start making friends (male and female) to go out with locally, without rushing into anything with the females, but just to create a social circle here. I need to be out of my shell so I don't get depressed. Right now work helps. I'm very busy.