This is why the BMW brand is getting destroyed to trying to appease to this group with nonsense 4 engines turbos and tech. I'm going to go to Mercedes and buy a gas guzzling AMGs and drive the heck out of it.

The posts on this thread indicate to me that the "liberals" that are on this forum have a much better grasp of the reasons for their position than I tend to see elsewhere. Usually the conservatives have more cogent arguments. Not on here. For the most part those supporting Obama have had more solid arguments...and the Romney supporters have been floundering with weak arguments and basically name calling. SO, Romney supporters, do a bit more research and offer some substance. E90post liberals...good job.

Liberals are such hypocrites, they cry global warming and tell people to buy hybrids/electric cars but based on this poll, they love BMWs..Cant have both "ultimate driving machine" and "ultimate earth loving cars" at the same time.

Over 100 posts and it has remained civil until now. And leave it to a conservative to start the name calling and oversimplify the arguments into black and white.

So people concerned about global warming have to do everything they can to stop global warming, including buying cars that get 4 more mpg? I'm getting 26 mpg in my 328i; my wife gets 30 in her Honda Civic. I suppose that if I light up my gas grill to grill a few burgers, that means I don't care about global warming. How about heating my house? Are liberals supposed to freeze all winter because they don't want to burn hydrocarbons? Ridiculous! The answers, as usual, are in the gray zone.

Us liberals can be concerned about global warming and buy BMW's just like conservatives can be concerned about big government and want more money for defense.

Yeah... what that rhetoric misses is that : the way tax dollars return to the economy is via the salaries paid to federal employees... who then turn around and buy crap at your employer, and in turn get you paid.

Taxation and spending is a closed loop, where most of the 'debt' is actually owed to ourselves. People like to cry about China, but it's only 7% of the mess. We're most of it.

The real "leakage" in the economy is spending on imports, which sends money overseas, and it returns as purchases of ownership, which leads to more leakage.

And the biggest irony is that most of the people crying about wealth redistribution and "how high their taxes are" and "paying for the lazy bums on bottom" ... are actually on the receiving end of wealth redistribution.
Bottom 50% of America has 2.5% of the wealth
Top 1% has 38% of the wealth (of which the top 1% of the top 1% has most of anyways).
You could tax HALF of the U.S. at a 100% tax rate (and wipe them out), and it would be like raising the top 1%'s tax rate by 6.5% (and slightly inconvenience them, if they'd even notice, since they bought everything they wanted ages ago anyways...).

Our system is held up by a small group of very wealthy, who then lobby the government do things, and the government hands out contracts - to the wealthy - so the wealthy can re-collect the money they paid in taxes.
And in the mean time, us peasants chip in a pittance (the "big taxes" we cry about - that amount to F-all) and collect way more than we paid in services and in wealth/salary-trickle-down from the contractors.

The big joke is that you could tax most people 100%, or 0% and it would be a nominal impact on the overall budget. We're all bums compared to the people at the tip top, and somehow we're fragmented into 'taxes are too high bums' and 'lazy bums'. But we're still all bums. The tax rate that makes or breaks the budget, is the one at the tip top. The government isn't spending "your money" - your money barely made a dent.

The national debt is now $16.2 trillion and it was $10 trillion upon taking office. It will continue to increase if he is re-elected.

It will continue to increase no matter who is elected. There's is no way either guy can produce a balanced budget while we are still in a recession.

And why did the debt increase so much during Obama's 4 years? Because it took a lot of money to bail out the financial institutions to prevent a complete financial collapse, an effort that began under Bush. A situation that would have never happened if there wasn't so much pressure to deregulate, that the conservatives are so fond of doing.

And it takes a lot of money to pay for Bush's wild spending during his 8 years. And it takes a lot of money to stimulate the economy while at the same making structural improvements that will improve the long term prospects.

Most economists believe that you have to TEMPORARILY increase spending to TEMPORARILY boost the economy until things improve. That's exactly what Obama has done. And things are improving, albeit slowly.

It's all a big joke with both parties the fact is we are no better than we were with bush. The biggest things these days is people continue to lose jobs right now. As people that cannot find jobs to properly support what they currently have or even find a job that pays more than unemployment depending on the situation. The biggest problem I have with Obama is that ultimately he put back to work almost all union city workers, rather than actually creating jobs. Most people that haven't been able to find a job has just given up which ultimately drops the unemployment rate but doesn't actually create jobs.

I am not a fan of obamas health care, you can't force people to get health insurance when they can barely feed their families. Then if they don't take health insurance they will tax/fine you. Basically damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I made a good Living and recently lost my job. Lucky I was smart and put away lots of cash but still the job market is very slim and what jobs are available aren't paying what they use to which makes it difficult to stay afloat.

Im currently in college in a Political Science class, and as an assignment have to do a political survey of a sub group of individuals. So, without turing this into a political argument, just vote for who you plan on voting for on the 6th.

STOPPPPP !!!!!
WRONG Forum !!!! This is WorldWide forum and others dont give a shit !!!
Admins please close this thread or move this to non BMW talk.
Ppl who call others Liberals and Conservatives always forget that they are Americans first !!!
Talking about jobs, debt and taxes based on what Media tells you is the problem we are in this mess. After reading 3 pages I figured out most of ppl here don't know whom to actually vote for.
Enough of political news on TV and Radio....Please stop this discussion here !!!
Don't spit the rhetoric here, ppl will loose each others respect.

Most economists believe that you have to TEMPORARILY increase spending to TEMPORARILY boost the economy until things improve. That's exactly what Obama has done. And things are improving, albeit slowly.

And if you watch Romney talking about his budget closely (which I think is a bunch of bull, but assuming that he has something more than numbers scribbled on the back of a napkin), he overtly acknowledges that he will end up making the hole bigger with his 2 trillion defense spending and other outflows. He also explicitly says that his plan will neutralize the spending and create a surplus over 8 years. He's used '8 years' more than once, someone should have fact-checked him that the job he's applying for has a tenure of 4 years.

Unfortunately the average listener doesn't pay attention to the full sentence but gets caught up in the rhetoric of the first part of his statements...

If he's elected, he will end up making the hole bigger with his radical proposals to rework everything and effectively neutralize the progress made in the last 3.5 years. Whether or not his policies will lead to deficit reduction and improved hiring is a huge unknown since not much is known about his economic policies. Exactly what we don't need at this stage of the game when employment is picking up strongly, the stock market is doing well and the housing and auto markets are doing extremely well.. Remember, all his changes will have to go through gridlocked Washington and any policy change will take months if not years to legislate.. Add to that, he's hell-bent on going after the Affordable Care Act for no real reason except that he is hell-bent on repealing it. So he'll be stretched thin trying to get a bunch of non-critical things passed in addition to the critical ones, which is going to slow down legislation. All indications are we'll get forced with another painful slowdown before anything starts to pick up again which again is a huge unknown.

Over 100 posts and it has remained civil until now. And leave it to a conservative to start the name calling and oversimplify the arguments into black and white.

So people concerned about global warming have to do everything they can to stop global warming, including buying cars that get 4 more mpg? I'm getting 26 mpg in my 328i; my wife gets 30 in her Honda Civic. I suppose that if I light up my gas grill to grill a few burgers, that means I don't care about global warming. How about heating my house? Are liberals supposed to freeze all winter because they don't want to burn hydrocarbons? Ridiculous! The answers, as usual, are in the gray zone.

Us liberals can be concerned about global warming and buy BMW's just like conservatives can be concerned about big government and want more money for defense.

You're funny, let me simplify it for you even more. If you BMW gets 26 mpg and your wife gets 30 mpg, your combined mpg for the family is 28 mpg not 4 mpg as you'd stated. I'll give you a nice big hug since you think that i'm starting calling you name even though it is an observation. LOL, you guys make me laugh so hard, thx for the entertainment

STOPPPPP !!!!!
WRONG Forum !!!! This is WorldWide forum and others dont give a shit !!!
Admins please close this thread or move this to non BMW talk.
Ppl who call others Liberals and Conservatives always forget that they are Americans first !!!
Talking about jobs, debt and taxes based on what Media tells you is the problem we are in this mess. After reading 3 pages I figured out most of ppl here don't know whom to actually vote for.
Enough of political news on TV and Radio....Please stop this discussion here !!!
Don't spit the rhetoric here, ppl will loose each others respect.

Driverman said it perfectly. Everyone keeps blaming Obama for not fixing everything in 4 years. Usually less educated people have this view. They fail to realize the extend of the mess he inherited and just how well he handled the situation. Bottom line is we are much better off now than we were in 2008. And if Obama get reelected, we will be much better off in 2016 than we are now.

OBAMA FTW.

Pretty sure we would have been in a better place regardless of who was on office..

Do you know anything about Ryan? This dude is a scary freak! If anybody has family and kids on this forum how in a world would you ever even look at this person!? Now imagine what kind of person would select him as a VP??

From 300M people this is the best we've got!? I hope not or US is going down quickly!!! George Washington is probably turning in his grave, does anybody remember him?

Use your brain folks and turn-off TV. Some people here are so brainwashed.

That MF is paying 13% on his millions while I am paying 28% for my peanuts!! Also, I want all kids to have access to quality education that will enrich them and enable them to lead and create something tomorrow and not have Mitt and Ryan shitheads poison them with their downright scary believes.

Pretty close, the poster claims 4 extra mpg to the vehicle but that is to assume that he doesnt drive his BMW and I think that is unlikely..so, it is a lie when making that statement.

LOL, my math assumes 50% split between the husband and wife and be glad to show you another set of scenario. I can show you elementary math if you wish. Out of curiosity, how does the poster gets to drive a BMW when his wife drives a Honda..I need to find more women like that..Congrats!

I am not a fan of obamas health care, you can't force people to get health insurance when they can barely feed their families. Then if they don't take health insurance they will tax/fine you. Basically damned if you do, damned if you don't.

People who don't support "Obamacare", I'd really like to know your thoughts on what we should do if someone, who is healthy, chooses not to buy health insurance and gets into a bad accident or gets cancer or some other costly disease and can't afford to pay.

If some form of universal health care or mandated requirement to buy insurance is not enacted, should we:

1. Allow them to get free healthcare at the E/R (which all of us end up paying for anyway in the form of ever increasing health care costs)
2. Say fuck 'em. They didn't buy health insurance so just let them die.
3. Fill in the blank (I'm really curious about what the third option is. Conservatives love saying how shitty universal health care or the mandatory requirement to buy insurance is, but they have never articulated a viable solution. Please enlighten me.)

By the way, I am not liberal. Libertarian perhaps, but definitely not liberal. Personally, I like option 2. I think people have the right to not buy ANY insurance at all... but, by the same token, they should suffer the full consequences of their stupidity and die.

Since my POV is not practical, I do support the individual mandate concept in Obamacare. Why the fuck should the young and healthy not have health insurance? They could break their leg skateboarding or become a quadriplegic doing a 60-130 run or some other stupid shit that I admittedly did when I was young also. I would want them, or their parents, paying health insurance premiums so they don't get free care.