If you're recording soft synths, are you outputting them from the computer and running them through FX and then inputting them back into the computer? Or are those just staying inside the computer the whole time?

It sounds like the bigger issue is the string instruments. There are a lot more variables with recording acoustic instruments into a computer. You have to worry about microphone, preamplification and AD/DA conversion. Your Lexicon Alpha is a mic preamp and AD/DA converter. For recording, it's the analog to digital conversion that matters. For playback, it's digital to analog. So strictly speaking the digital-to-analog converter will not improve your recording in any sense, other than possibly allowing you to monitor your own performance more clearly and maybe do a better job mixing/mastering.

The Lexicon Alpha may not be a high-end recording device, but it's certainly better than just sticking an analog microphone into the mic port on your laptop, and using the built-in mic preamp and AD/DA convers.

Maybe if you let us know what problem you perceive in your own recordings, somebody here can advise you whether your Alpha is worth upgrading, or if your efforts and money might be better spent on microphones and/or effects.

Converters matters, in a typical studio setup you use atleast 2 converters, one for the input signals from your pre amp, and one for the output signal to the speakers. Both are very critical, but if you do mostly stuff inside your computer I guess your monitor controller/converter is more important, cause this will represent the true audio which your computer send.

But it looks like you use kind of a lot of external instruments so yeah... a good converter would really make a big difference. but a great pre amp is a ls also good, of course you set the bar yourself what you are ready to pay for the best sound quality. Antelope audio Orion 32 is good converters too..same goes with Prism Titan/orpheus, you can get lynx aurora second hand for good price.

Burl do the best converters right now, I will buy them I am saving up money to buy them

If you're recording soft synths, are you outputting them from the computer and running them through FX and then inputting them back into the computer? Or are those just staying inside the computer the whole time?

It sounds like the bigger issue is the string instruments. There are a lot more variables with recording acoustic instruments into a computer. You have to worry about microphone, preamplification and AD/DA conversion. Your Lexicon Alpha is a mic preamp and AD/DA converter. For recording, it's the analog to digital conversion that matters. For playback, it's digital to analog. So strictly speaking the digital-to-analog converter will not improve your recording in any sense, other than possibly allowing you to monitor your own performance more clearly and maybe do a better job mixing/mastering.

The Lexicon Alpha may not be a high-end recording device, but it's certainly better than just sticking an analog microphone into the mic port on your laptop, and using the built-in mic preamp and AD/DA convers.

Maybe if you let us know what problem you perceive in your own recordings, somebody here can advise you whether your Alpha is worth upgrading, or if your efforts and money might be better spent on microphones and/or effects.

With the soft synths, I usually use just one main laptop and record within that, with the soft synths and FX all in it. Sometimes, I use another laptop with soft synths that goes through some external FX, then through the Lexicon Alpha and into my main laptop.

When I'm recording, I just don't feel like I'm getting a clean enough sound with the soft synths, even with effects off and the volume up enough. I feel like it's just a tad bit off. It might even be my external speakers, which aren't exactly high end but I was thinking it might have something to do with recording primarily through a laptop. I never upgraded the soundcard on it, so it probably is pretty lousy.

I should also note that for acoustic instruments, plugging them into the laptop is not my only option available for recording. I do have a Tascam DR 2D portable recorder that I can use. I do find the recording quality to be better from that but that's still not ideal either. I thought about upgrading from that too.

Immersion, I don't think you should insult somebody because their budget for equipment is lower. I don't want to discourage people from asking questions here if they are just starting out, or if they aren't able (or ready) to spend thousands of dollars per item.

When I started out, I used cheap Hosa cables, a Mackie 1202 mixer (which I still have, and use as a secondary mixer), and inexpensive ART compressor and multi-FX. I recorded everything to a portable Sony DAT, and monitored on Sony headphones that I still use about the half the time.

After that, I upgraded gradually, and in steps.

I have some more expensive pieces of gear in my studio, like Avalon 747 or Lexicon PCM91, but I also have some good and useful pieces of equipment that cost hundreds rather than thousands. I have gotten rid of some esoteric or extremely expensive gear (such as the Cranesong HEDD 192 AD/DA I had for a couple of years) because the high cost simply wasn't worth it.

Of course, if a device costs $4,000 everybody will be very impressed, and nobody would ever suggest that my choice in gear was "wrong," but lately I am more impressed with a solidly-made and reasonably-priced piece of equipment. Every place you save money, and find gear that will allow you to do what you want to accomplish and spend less money, saves money for something else.

Also, I wasn't offended by Immersion's post at all, so it's no big deal.

That's good -- and I didn't think Immersion's comment was all that bad, but I hope we won't get started telling people their equipment choices are terrible. Also, if someone says they're thinking about upgrading from their entry-level audio interface, I don't know if $2500 devices are the best suggestion. That's so many steps above what you're using now, I think you'd be better served by a recommendation for something by Presonus or Focusrite or maybe M-Audio.

I would definitely agree -- if you have some money to spend, buy a really good reverb. That's most important.

And I also agree, I have heard more ambient recordings lately that sound like they were made with cheap gear, especially poor reverbs.

I remember being surprised when I first got started making ambient music that most of the other people I knew had very nice gear -- expensive mixers, high-end Lexicon reverbs, good monitors, and that sort of thing. Now lots of people just buy an audio interface for their computer and use the default effects built into their DAW software, and that's it -- they don't pay for any effects, either outboard, or higher-quality plugins.

I remember being surprised when I first got started making ambient music that most of the other people I knew had very nice gear -- expensive mixers, high-end Lexicon reverbs, good monitors, and that sort of thing. Now lots of people just buy an audio interface for their computer and use the default effects built into their DAW software, and that's it -- they don't pay for any effects, either outboard, or higher-quality plugins.

well, I am a part of the younger more "forward thinking" generation, about 10 years ago when all software plugs did look to have a promising future and also computer performance was getting better and better I did kind of look down at the old things, I wanted to replace as much as possible with software plugins, I felt smart, and I thought other where "stupid" why pay so much money when you can just have a cheap plugin that sounds the same... I think most younger ambient artist is still stuck in this kind of "mentality" that software is the cutting edge in audio and that everything sounds best and can be down "in the box" with software. No need for expensive mixers or expensive analog outboard gear now when you can use high quality plugins.

As I said I did grow up under this software "revolution" about 10 years later I realize not much has happen in the last 10 years when it comes to creating music with software, the development has slown down extremely.. only more of the same.. analoge still sound superior even so many years, you only get close with plugins in that use between 50-80% on the latest intel cpus overclocked you get close the analgoue "essence" of the sound.

Yeah so personally I have changed radically, I am going away more and more from software "in the right places". I still use soft synths for instance, it is ok if your other signal chain is high quality, for instance analgoue outboard gear can make even a digital soft synth glow to life. I am not anti software but I do not compromise in sound quality. I realize its strength and weaknesses. The weaknesses is 100% due to the lack of CPU power, almost all plugins compromise in audio quality in favor of less cpu usage, all this are hearable... CPU needs a lot of power to crate those complex and precise harmonics that analogue gear make..it just kills the cpu... this is the reason I buy more and more external gear, to get more power cause the CPU can't do all processing on it's on... The lack processing power is one of the main reason why all ambient produced "in the box" sound so cheap.. however there is expectations of plugins that sound incredible with minimal cpu power, Lexicon PCM native is one of them, but I think one reason of that is because the algorithms have been refined for about 30 years the algorithms where made for a different time with a lot less processing power then what we have today...so with the right miracle could is probably possible but extremely hard craft to program such things.. most virtual analogue stuff consume the cpu totally...the plugins I use that I think sound good, such as digital slate, SPL, SSL, D16, etc they all have one thing in common..the use a lot of cpu..

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm definitely going to take these recommendations into consideration.

I'll admit that I've probably been guilty of too much reverb (some of it probably too cheap in quality) in the past. I did buy ValhallaRoom recently and that's definitely a huge improvement over almost every plugin I have. I was blown away TBH. I'm definitely going to be more conscious of reverb when I record in the future.

I had never heard of Toraverb before but seeing you mention Robert Rich's endorsement and the fact that it's a bargain at that price, I might buy that really soon. It seems like it would also probably be different enough from the ValhallaRoom.

The other ones seem like they would be awesome too but they're noticeably more expensive.

Hopefully some more people will jump in on this topic, with other recommendations too.

I will certainly look though my software tomorrow and see if I can suggest something in the reverb line. I think reverbs can be very personal, in the sense that they must, to your ears, fit your sound, and also operate in a way that makes intuitive sense.

I think we have to be open to learning about 'stuff', but we all have to start somewhere and not all of us have the financial resources to launch into the high end products.

I have recently not bought something I really wanted that would have added range and quality to my music because I am trying to save for something that will enable me to do something different - not even sure what that difference will be yet, but that's for the exploring when I finally get it......this really was not a choice I was happy to make (throws toys out of pram type image).....

I first started recording in the late 70's with a cassette portastudio and the spring reverbs on my (I think) Marshall amp - the quality was not great by current standards, but the excitement was very high as it was the first tiime 'ordinary' people could record music rather than rely on the record labels, perhaps an apsect of music we have become too used to in some ways.

This time round I started with a second hand Korg D16 portastudio - then upgraded to a second hand Roland VS2480. Each of which has it's pluses and minuses as far as quality etc go - though the VS2480 does burn red book standard CDs and can record at high sample rates.

We also have to consider what we and our peers are trying to achieve in our music before making suggestions or decrying what facilities they have. If we are not wanting to create music that is 'true to source' then what we are looking at and why changes.

I don't record to a desktop or mac computer at all - just not my cup of tea. I only use my computer for certain things - import some sounds on Cdr and then 'flay' them with Sonar 5 and the odd VST - such as Glaceverb - then pass them back for further transformation...

We have sort of wandered into discussing reverb rather than the A/D (which I have to be honest and say I know nothing about as I rely on those in the Korg and Roland - assuming that as they were intended as recording equipment they will be up to the task). It is good to read other peoples experiences and preferences, even if I may never use them myself.

As for reverbs I managed to get a TCM3000 a few years back - not in the level of the Lexicon high end or Eventides, but once i got a sense of how I want to use it I can create the sounds I want on my other effects etc and then pass it through the TC to get the final quality and sound I want.

My sense within Hi-fi is that if you want to achieve a recogniseable increase in quality you have to treble the price of what you already have - I dont know if this is the same within recording equipment - unfortunately I've never had the money to try and find out.

I dont use software reverb much within the DAW.....if I were looking for good reverb plugin I would certainly check out the Lexicon PCM Native Reverb bundle. Its not cheap at $600 but from what I have heard its the best of Lexicon sound without the hardware cost which is somewhere at $2000 new. At one time you could buy individual plugins within the bundle, not sure if thats still available

T.C. Electronics Vss3 reverb which was original part of their Powercore platform is a plugin ported over from TC's 6000 system. I used it alot when I had a powercore pci card in my old Mac G5 so the software is no longer. I miss it and would put it up against any high end reverb hard or soft. For those in the Pro Tools dominion you can still get it as a TDM plugin

As for other software plugins for processing audio......the one and only Sound Toys native bundle. I recall Paul Vnuk saying on this forum that a good software reverb and the Sound Toys bundle of fx plugins you can come very close to the sound palette of an Eventide Eclipse. As an Eclipse owner and Sound Toys user I would agree with this.

As to converters....the title of this thread. There are so many options. I dont think today there are really any bad converters out there. It seems a very competitive market where manufacturers cannot afford to put out inferior products. An all in one box would be my choice. Pre amps, converters monitoring etc under one hood. Im actually looking at a Metric Halo ULN8 unit as a possible option for myself. Its high end with a price tag to match but I would be selling high end gear to make the purchase as I consolidated my studio.

I would advise to buy right the first time and have it for life so to speak.

« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 06:39:11 AM by Julio Di Benedetto »

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