I know there has been some recent threads on Windham. Here's a link to a review from a user here, if you would like, I can remove the link and let you post it, but until then, everyone enjoy!

Windham Weaponry Tour - YouTube

WinterWizard

11-21-2012, 00:31

Don't waste your time, dude. Nobody on this forum will care unless the manufacturer starts with "C," ends with "T," and in the middle is "OL."

bigmoney890

11-21-2012, 00:57

Don't waste your time, dude. Nobody on this forum will care unless the manufacturer starts with "C," ends with "T," and in the middle is "OL."

Not sure who you are referring to as the majority of users here love all types of companies, not just he almighty Colt

Gunnut 45/454

11-21-2012, 01:40

The interveiwer didn't check off all the Mil spec requirements that everyone else here and else where are so hung up on so I take it these will not meet the chart specs! Kind of pricey as well. Nice looking AR's.:supergrin:

WinterWizard

11-21-2012, 03:06

The interveiwer didn't check off all the Mil spec requirements that everyone else here and else where are so hung up on so I take it these will not meet the chart specs! Kind of pricey as well. Nice looking AR's.:supergrin:

Wrong on both accounts.

faawrenchbndr

11-21-2012, 05:37

Don't waste your time, dude. Nobody on this forum will care unless the manufacturer starts with "C," ends with "T," and in the middle is "OL."

Clueless comment from the peanut gallery..........:popcorn:

PlasticGuy

11-21-2012, 05:55

The Windhams are selling really well here. Getting a chrome lined barrel, MP bolt, properly staked gas key, and a lifetime warranty for $799 is a pretty good deal. It's certainly not a Colt, but it's better than Bushmaster for $150 less.

johnson8861

11-21-2012, 06:40

We got a couple at the shop I work at, and they were gone in just a few hours.

MedicOni

11-21-2012, 06:49

The Sportsmens here has some of them that i was looking at. I got pretty tempted

sent from my left big toe

camelotkid

11-21-2012, 07:00

cool back story, I take it they are doing well since walmart is selling them. I didn't know that they were formerly bushmaster.

WayaX

11-21-2012, 13:41

I respect the owner of Windham for what he did for his employees. I also have a good respect for the guy running MAC, as his AK videos are very good. I cannot figure out why he would endorse Windham as a good product, though.

Windham has been out for a while now, and it is known that they are still using the incorrect FSB (how hard is it to figure out that an A2 FSB is the wrong one to use on a flat-top), incorrect buffer (easily fixable, but still....), commercial receiver extensions, etc.

From knowing that they're not fixing the EASY things, you can only assume that they still have chamber and gas-port problems. It isn't like these spec's are hidden somewhere and can't be found, or that changing the tooling to make the gas-port the proper size, or keeping your chamber reamers sharp, is hard stuff.

bmoore

11-21-2012, 14:21

That's cool, I hope they do well.

WinterWizard

11-21-2012, 14:27

I respect the owner of Windham for what he did for his employees. I also have a good respect for the guy running MAC, as his AK videos are very good. I cannot figure out why he would endorse Windham as a good product, though.

Windham has been out for a while now, and it is known that they are still using the incorrect FSB (how hard is it to figure out that an A2 FSB is the wrong one to use on a flat-top), incorrect buffer (easily fixable, but still....), commercial receiver extensions, etc.

From knowing that they're not fixing the EASY things, you can only assume that they still have chamber and gas-port problems. It isn't like these spec's are hidden somewhere and can't be found, or that changing the tooling to make the gas-port the proper size, or keeping your chamber reamers sharp, is hard stuff.

That is quite an assumption.

WayaX

11-21-2012, 16:24

That is quite an assumption.

Not really. All of those things were also done when they were Bushmaster.

Rooster Rugburn

11-21-2012, 18:07

Don't waste your time, dude. Nobody on this forum will care unless the manufacturer starts with "C," ends with "T," and in the middle is "OL."

They are not the majority, they are just the most vocal. You rarely see someone who buys RR, DPMS, Bushmaster, etc desperately needing to get the last word, needing to have others follow their "advice", desperately needing to give "advice" or "recommendations" (which I think in their minds implies an amount of expertise, and is validation when you buy what they "recommend" you buy) and never letting a post of a differing opinion go unanswered. They hit and hit about "don't buy that" and then when someone goes against their "advice", they seem to feel the need to tell them why they were wrong to buy it. I think they really believe the last word wins. That's why I say they would be an interesting psychological study, if they aren't already classified as "fan boys".

Seriously: how often do you see someone who owns Rock River or Bushmaster needing the validation of having "advice" followed, and then acting butt hurt when it isn't? I guess the fan boys think buying certain brands brings with it "expertise".

The rest of participants here seem to just leave them to their delusions, post once or twice, and let them go. Who has the time or the energy?

But you need to understand: EVERY TIME someone doesn't buy what the chart fan boys call "first tier" and buys "second or third tier", an angel loses it's wings. And, it's missed validation by people desperately needing it.

I say that as an owner of Rock River, Bushmaster, Stag, Colt, and BCM. I don't care what you own, I'm just glad you own one, and wish you luck with what you have.

WinterWizard

11-22-2012, 01:46

Not really. All of those things were also done when they were Bushmaster.

Windham Weaponry does not make the same ARs that they did when they were Bushmaster pre-2006. They have taken the opportunity to update and improve their product, materials and manufacturing processes. I don't know why everyone assumes that WW ARs are the same exact rifle that Bushmaster used to make. They're not.

vettely

11-22-2012, 02:12

Windham Weaponry does not make the same ARs that they did when they were Bushmaster pre-2006. They have taken the opportunity to update and improve their product, materials and manufacturing processes. I don't know why everyone assumes that WW ARs are the same exact rifle that Bushmaster used to make. They're not.

Witch! Witch! Everyone (here) knows if it isn't a Colt it is a piece of pot metal junk.

WinterWizard

11-23-2012, 14:56

Witch! Witch! Everyone (here) knows if it isn't a Colt it is a piece of pot metal junk.

You ain't kidding. If it ain't a 6920, you might as well melt it down and make shop tools out of it, because that's how useful it is. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

larson1122

11-23-2012, 15:37

You ain't kidding. If it ain't a 6920, you might as well melt it down and make shop tools out of it, because that's how useful it is. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Posts like this are absolutely ridiculous. Have you ever stepped back to think about why so many people recommend a Colt? Hint....they work and they work well. Yes there are many other manufactures that make very dependable rifles, but the fact is that the 6920 is one of the best rifles available in its price range whether you choose to believe it or not.

Stvan1

11-23-2012, 19:01

I love my Bushmaster 308 ORC that I just got a couple months ago. I loved my S&W M&P AR .223 I had a couple years ago and got rid of cause I wanted a 308. The Bushmaster puts the rounds one on top of the other pretty much with cheap mag tech ammo so it is good enough for me. These things haven't changed much since I used one in Viet Nam almost 43 years ago so it ain't rocket science. Actually seem better quality now more heavy duty and more accurate, or maybe because now I have time to actually take careful aim with the thing. Just my two cents worth.

zhix

11-23-2012, 21:10

The last time I looked at a WW it definately had a commercial stock tube and a castle nut that was not staked (yes they may be using blue loctite but IME that can make removing the extension difficult) so until they change that I don't see how they're trying to be better than Bushmaster has ever been. I do believe they offer a 1/7 barrel on some models though.

WinterWizard

11-23-2012, 22:26

Posts like this are absolutely ridiculous. Have you ever stepped back to think about why so many people recommend a Colt? Hint....they work and they work well. Yes there are many other manufactures that make very dependable rifles, but the fact is that the 6920 is one of the best rifles available in its price range whether you choose to believe it or not.

I rest my case.

AK_Stick

11-24-2012, 00:46

Windham Weaponry does not make the same ARs that they did when they were Bushmaster pre-2006. They have taken the opportunity to update and improve their product, materials and manufacturing processes. I don't know why everyone assumes that WW ARs are the same exact rifle that Bushmaster used to make. They're not.

Ok, so what did they improve, if they're still doing the same things they were doing as BM?

Foxtrotx1

11-24-2012, 01:00

New name, same ShrubMaster.

WinterWizard

11-24-2012, 16:03

Ok, so what did they improve, if they're still doing the same things they were doing as BM?

Look at the AR-15 chart for Bushmaster. The Windham ARs are NOT that. Do your own research.

Mystic Knight

11-24-2012, 20:23

I shot a couple hundred rounds through my Windham today. Dang! If I had known the gun was no good I wouldn't/couldn't have done that. Now that I have read this informative post I am going to throw it away. Thank you know-it-all gun experts for saving me from thinking I was satisfied.

glock031

11-24-2012, 20:57

You should have bought a BCM for $400 more. It would have done the exact same thing for your needs. Next time your lectured by some kid that took a few carbine classes (most likely paid for by mother-in-law) take heed of self proclaimed expertise.

Veedubklown

11-25-2012, 08:18

... took a few carbine classes (most likely paid for by mother-in-law)

I would totally take advice from someone like that - on how to get a badass MIL. All mine ever did was pinch my booze, fill em back up with water, and threaten to kill me in my sleep when she was drunk. I never got the chance for her to make good on it, but I would have lived the dream I'm sure many here wouldn't mind - a hostile MIL on the other end of my front sight.

supatrucka

11-25-2012, 10:41

Mine works fine.

R2D2

11-25-2012, 15:23

I love my WW HBC model, tight, not an issue with about 700 rounds down range

tampashooters

11-25-2012, 15:51

You should have bought a BCM for $400 more. It would have done the exact same thing for your needs. Next time your lectured by some kid that took a few carbine classes (most likely paid for by mother-in-law) take heed of self proclaimed expertise.

So if it does the same exact thing, why spend $400 more? :dunno:

I have a cheap $600 DPMS Oracle that shoots just as well as everyone else's. Never a jam, and accurate as can be. But, as a civilian target shooter (not a camo wearing wannabe Scout Sniper), it is perfect for my needs, not everyone else's.

It shoots brass and steel cased ammo flawlessly.

Mine may not be better than yours, but I have fun, and that is all that counts!

Magelk

11-25-2012, 16:19

So if it does the same exact thing, why spend $400 more? :dunno:

I have a cheap $600 DPMS Oracle that shoots just as well as everyone else's. Never a jam, and accurate as can be. But, as a civilian target shooter (not a camo wearing wannabe Scout Sniper), it is perfect for my needs, not everyone else's.

It shoots brass and steel cased ammo flawlessly.

Mine may not be better than yours, but I have fun, and that is all that counts!

I think he was being sarcastic.

AK_Stick

11-25-2012, 16:23

Look at the AR-15 chart for Bushmaster. The Windham ARs are NOT that. Do your own research.

:rofl:

So you'll tell everyone that WW is NOT bushmaster, yet when pressed for details, we should "do our own research" and don't comment on the fact that if you do your own research, you'll find that WW is still doing some of the things they did wrong as BM?

bmoore

11-25-2012, 16:53

:rofl:

So you'll tell everyone that WW is NOT bushmaster, yet when pressed for details, we should "do our own research" and don't comment on the fact that if you do your own research, you'll find that WW is still doing some of the things they did wrong as BM?

Your gonna bang your head against the wall with the group in this thread. I am a recovering "mine is just as good" AR owner, I speak form experience.

tampashooters

11-25-2012, 17:02

I think he was being sarcastic.

I thought so too, but can never tell anymore in these forums. Shoot safe everyone!

bigmoney890

11-25-2012, 17:24

Just wanted to post up a cool video so people that didn't know already could see what Windham was all about.

I now regret starting this thread...

WoodenPlank

11-25-2012, 17:41

Just wanted to post up a cool video so people that didn't know already could see what Windham was all about.

I now regret starting this thread...

You should know better by now.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

bigmoney890

11-25-2012, 17:46

You should know better by now.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

That's what I get for being a good guy :whistling:

GlockPride

11-25-2012, 17:58

I've got some guys I work with and sell to that own a range. They have shot the snot out of theirs, including some competitions. They have nothing bad to say.

I, like most, was very skeptical at first. With their word, I would buy one. However, I am not a BA, tier 1 operator nor a special forces navy seal delta ranger.

WinterWizard

11-25-2012, 18:12

WW is still doing some of the things they did wrong as BM?

You keep saying that but fail to offer any documentation or real proof.

WW is a new company. Yes, mostly ex-Bushmaster employees and using the old factory, but a NEW company – new name, new product, new warranty, new customer service policies. I know it sucks to some people that a quality rifle can be had for $800, but you're just gonna have to deal with it. :tongueout:

Veedubklown

11-25-2012, 18:25

Just wanted to post up a cool video so people that didn't know already could see what Windham was all about.

I now regret starting this thread...

For what it's worth, I hadn't seen that tour, nor heard of the company. I'm glad to see there's plenty of good recognition for them here, and I rarely pay attention to fan-boy banter. I'd check them out, for that price, and they sell them at walmart? That's awesome. I saw the DPMSs there, but I didn't like the cheapy feel they had, or the lack of a dust cover.

Good thread, none the less. Eff the haters.

AK_Stick

11-25-2012, 18:29

I didn't know I had to prove what has already been proven to be true?

It's a fact, not a question, that WW, uses an A2 FSB, and not the proper F-marked FSB.

Similarly, it's known they don't properly stake the castle nut, but use blue locktight.

These are some of the common issues that BM had. Ironic, that they would resurface with the new company.

The only claims I see in here, are coming from you saying WW is not the same as BM, and they produce a new product. Yet the same old faults are still present. So again I ask, what changed?

Do you have any proof the product is different? Because everything I see shows the same old failings BM had.

Veedubklown

11-25-2012, 19:20

Not being an AR aficionado, what is the difference and drawback of the different front sight bases? Can you easily stake that castle nut? That's the one that's holding on the buffer tube, right?

AK_Stick

11-25-2012, 19:29

The height.
The A2 is designed for the sight height of a A2s rear sight.

The F marked, is designed to be at proper height for a flat top mounted rear sight.

It can be dealt with, much like the castle nut, but the question is more, why are they still doing the same things wrong?

WoodenPlank

11-25-2012, 20:04

The height.
The A2 is designed for the sight height of a A2s rear sight.

The F marked, is designed to be at proper height for a flat top mounted rear sight.

It can be dealt with, much like the castle nut, but the question is more, why are they still doing the same things wrong?

These are both things easily done from the factory. Fixing the front sight isn't that easy after the fact. The castle nut can be broken loose, cleaned, then reinstalled and staked. That requires a proper bench setup and tools, though.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

bigmoney890

11-25-2012, 20:05

What is the height difference between the two sight bases?

WoodenPlank

11-25-2012, 20:18

what is the height difference between the two sight bases?

0.04"

bigmoney890

11-25-2012, 20:20

So for practical purposes, most users will not be affected by the difference.

But still, as noted, it should be an easy thing to fix during production.

WoodenPlank

11-25-2012, 20:24

So for practical purposes, most users will not be affected by the difference.

But still, as noted, it should be an easy thing to fix during production.

It will mean quite a bit more work to get your elevation dialed in when zeroing, but that's the brunt of it. It's the simple matter that the F-marked FSB is what is needed to match to a flat-top upper, and some companies just refuse to build them right. I guess they figure it's one less part to stock and one less part to do differently on different style uppers. However, it's still the wrong part.

mvician

11-25-2012, 20:43

So for practical purposes, most users will not be affected by the difference.

Until the user tries to sight in the irons and ends up having to crank the FSB up so that the threads are showing and the top of the post is above the "ears"

But still, as noted, it should be an easy thing to fix during production.

Yes, easily fixed by using the correct height base from the start.

Bushmasters "fix" was to sell a taller front sight post.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/tallpost1.jpg

WoodenPlank

11-25-2012, 20:47

Yes, easily fixed by using the correct height base from the start.

Bushmasters "fix" was to sell a taller front sight post.

I've never seen an upper with a non-F FSP and flat top mounted rear that was properly zeroed, so I had no idea you had to unscrew the post that far.

:wow:

bigmoney890

11-25-2012, 20:49

Bushmasters "fix" was to sell a taller front sight post.

Isn't that the American way? :rofl:

WoodenPlank

11-25-2012, 20:50

Isn't that the American way? :rofl:

What, being lazy buggers to fix a problem you created in the first place?

Why not, isn't that how the government does it?

bigmoney890

11-25-2012, 20:57

What, being lazy buggers to fix a problem you created in the first place?

Why not, isn't that how the government does it?

Sounds about right.

But not to derail my own thread, If Windham can manage to fix whatever problems they have, it should turn out to be a good deal. This is assuming their prices don't increase in order to cover the cost of 'fixing' their mistakes. I'm not trying to defend them, but they've only been around for about a year as the new company. I think they've done pretty good for themselves, despite the stated problems.

Don't. The chart fan boys are always looking for a place to ****, but I'm sure the silent majority found it interesting. I know I did. I wish WW well. Hell, maybe they could change FSB and start staking the castle nut (Hammer and chisel anyone?) and take away the fan boy talking points.

And BTW, what happened to "The Chart"? It's not up any more.

mvician

11-25-2012, 21:30

And BTW, what happened to "The Chart"? It's not up any more.

He got tired of the BS guys like you like to spout off about it.

WinterWizard

11-25-2012, 22:19

I didn't know I had to prove what has already been proven to be true?

It's a fact, not a question, that WW, uses an A2 FSB, and not the proper F-marked FSB.

Similarly, it's known they don't properly stake the castle nut, but use blue locktight.

These are some of the common issues that BM had. Ironic, that they would resurface with the new company.

The only claims I see in here, are coming from you saying WW is not the same as BM, and they produce a new product. Yet the same old faults are still present. So again I ask, what changed?

Do you have any proof the product is different? Because everything I see shows the same old failings BM had.

My WW doesn't have a FSB because it doesn't have a FS. And staking the castle nut is a matter of preference, not a requirement. An unstaked castle nut mean you can remove easily to install other hardware. It can also be staked easily if you choose.

And saying something isn't providing proof. It's no more than hearsay. Documents and official links, bro - not something someone said on another forum or some rumor you heard. You have claimed that WW has the same "problems" that BM used to have yet you have not provided one shred of proof.

Old AR-15 charts claim the BM is batch tested parts, blue extractor spring, non-shot peened bolt. WW tests their barrels and bolts, has the black extractor spring, shot peened bolt, 4150 barrel, carpenter 158 bolt, chrome-lined bolt carrier, chamber and barrel, properly staked gas key, M4 feed ramps and full auto carrier. The only things that the AR-15 snobs have to complain about are a commercial buffer tube and unstaked castle nut. One makes no difference on performance and one is a preference thing.

Anyone that has had experience with the new WWs knows and admits that it is a superior product to the old BMs. Ask Sturmgewehre and watch his YouTube videos. Or go on claiming something is fact simply because it came out of your mouth.

Go to 10:50 of this video to listen to Sturmgewehre's opinion of the WW. He actually has experience with this rifle, along with other top tier rifles. His opinion is neither ill-informed or lacks knowledge or experience.

Anyone that has had experience with the new WWs knows and admits that it is a superior product to the old BMs. Ask Sturmgewehre and watch his YouTube videos. Or go on claiming something is fact simply because it came out of your mouth.

So if it comes out of Sturmgewehre's mouth, we can then claim it as fact? Your logic is confusing...

WinterWizard

11-26-2012, 00:50

So if it comes out of Sturmgewehre's mouth, we can then claim it as fact? Your logic is confusing...

Yes, because he has ACTUALLY tested real Windham Weaponry rifles, put them through their paces as compared to other brands of rifles ... and actually taken enough of an interest to take a tour of the Windham Weaponry plant in person. He isn't just repeating things he's heard and/or making assumptions on the Internet. And his opinion is impartial, as he has no stake in WW's failure or success. Get it now? Things starting to click...? If you don't understand the difference between an informed and an uninformed opinion then I am afraid there isn't much I can do for you. :wavey:

larson1122

11-26-2012, 01:06

If you don't understand the difference between an informed and an uninformed opinion then I am afraid there isn't much I can do for you. :wavey:

See, there's the problem right there. Some people make decisions based on facts, and some people make decisions based on youtube opinions. Yes, obviously some opinions carry more weight than others, but you need to realize that some opinions can be motivated by financial incentives and may be slighty skewed (hint...youtube gun channels).

Veedubklown

11-26-2012, 02:32

Actually, didn't that guy even hit on the same points you did, minus the FSB? Honestly, that seems like a non-issue. Your front sight height still comes out the same. It sticks .04" higher than the other sight, but if you're dropping your gun to ding your front sight, it's gonna ding reguardless of that .04".

WinterWizard

11-26-2012, 05:57

See, there's the problem right there. Some people make decisions based on facts, and some people make decisions based on youtube opinions. Yes, obviously some opinions carry more weight than others, but you need to realize that some opinions can be motivated by financial incentives and may be slighty skewed (hint...youtube gun channels).

I did make my buying decision based on facts, not a YouTube video. EVERY information source can be reliable or unreliable. That is up to the individual to decide.

By the by, almost all gun opinions (magazines, forums, videos, etc) are motivated in some way. Again, it's up to the individual to decide if the information they're getting is biased or not.

I've extensively researched every gun purchase I've ever made and never had a bad gun buy yet because of it. Will it happen someday? Probably. But it's far less likely than the guy who just heads down to the local gun shop and picks out whatever looks coolest to him.

mc1911

11-26-2012, 08:32

I am a newbie, but i wonder why a commercial specced part is a reason for criticism when these are commercial rifles?

Is so called mil-spec a magical holy grail? I can understand that it might matter when changing parts, but is it that big of a deal?

larson1122

11-26-2012, 11:35

Actually, didn't that guy even hit on the same points you did, minus the FSB? Honestly, that seems like a non-issue. Your front sight height still comes out the same. It sticks .04" higher than the other sight, but if you're dropping your gun to ding your front sight, it's gonna ding reguardless of that .04".

I didn't make any specific points for or against Windham, or say anything whatsoever about FSB's.

Veedubklown

11-26-2012, 14:20

My mistake. Fixed

WinterWizard

11-26-2012, 16:16

I am a newbie, but i wonder why a commercial specced part is a reason for criticism when these are commercial rifles?

Is so called mil-spec a magical holy grail? I can understand that it might matter when changing parts, but is it that big of a deal?

Exactly. The only difference between a mil-spec buffer tube and a commercial one is the shape. Not a single difference in function, reliability or longevity.

Rooster Rugburn

11-26-2012, 16:21

I am a newbie, but i wonder why a commercial specced part is a reason for criticism when these are commercial rifles?

Is so called mil-spec a magical holy grail? I can understand that it might matter when changing parts, but is it that big of a deal?

It's really not, but some folks desperately need validation and reinforcement, and "Mil-spec" is about all they have to convince themselves their rifle is the "best". They have to know theirs is the best, and have a reason to disparage others'.

They are very similar to the Glock Fan Boys who ran around claiming that Glock was the best because so many LE agencies bought them. I tried for years to explain the government procurement process basically says the low bidder who meets the specs and performance tests. They never believed me, but when SW started under bidding Glock and winning contracts, those same fan boys are saying SW gets the contract because they are low bidder. And it's true. :dunno:

There is something inherently immature and insecure about a lot of the fan boys, be they Glock Fan Boys, Sig Fan Boys, Chart Fan Boys (mil spec AR's) or whatever. Are they tribal because they are immature and compensating, or are they immature and compensating because they are tribal? It's the chicken and the egg. After years and years of seeing the same behavior across the tribes, you learn to laugh at it.

So if it comes out of Sturmgewehre's mouth, we can then claim it as fact? Your logic is confusing...

I think Sturmgewehre is more believable than the guru wannabes\fan boys here. At least Sturmgewehre backs up what he says with videos. When he has a disassembled rifle on the table, and he says the barrel is chrome lined, the gas key is "properly staked", the bolt is MP\HP tested, and it has M4 feed ramps, it has a little more credibility than any anonymous guru wannabe on the internet. From what I saw in the video, WW is staking their gas keys better than Colt and BCM, if that matters to you.

I remember reading a post from a guru wannabee (none that are currently active) saying that RRA doesn't chrome line their barrel. I looked at mine, and it was chrome lined.

It looks like Windham is making a technically superior rifle than Bushmaster. I think I'll grab one, to support the brand. Based on their story, it would be nice to see them become a major player in the AR arena.

bmoore

11-26-2012, 17:09

[QUOTE=Rooster Rugburn;19671312]

I think Sturmgewehre is more believable than the guru wannabes\fan boys here. At least Sturmgewehre backs up what he says with videos. When he has a disassembled rifle on the table, and he says the barrel is chrome lined, the gas key is "properly staked", the bolt is MP\HP tested, and it has M4 feed ramps, it has a little more credibility than any anonymous guru wannabe on the internet. From what I saw in the video, WW is staking their gas keys better than Colt and BCM, if that matters to you.

I like his videos, they are well done. Saying that someone has more credibility just because they post video's is one of the goofiest things I have ever heard. Plenty of guys out there with incredible knowledge don't post vids, that does not make them some "wanna be" or "fan boy".

M&P15T

11-26-2012, 17:40

Christ, I'm actually glad I never had heard of "The Chart" before I bought my AR, I would have spent a ton more money and not have the truly enjoyable AR I have now.

For me, it's not about material differences that make no......difference in my shooting. It's about the configuration of my rifle and how I want it set-up, what I want it to look and work like.

bigmoney890

11-26-2012, 18:42

I'm hopefully going to stop the derailment of this thread caused by some obvious Windham Fanboys (yes I said it). I'll make a comparison that everyone can relate to, and if you disagree, I don't care because it's probably because of you that this thread has turned to constant banter and such.

I drive a Ford Focus (Windham Weaponry AR). I have a buddy with a Chevy Corvette (at the risk of starting another argument, let's go with a Bravo Company AR). You know the differences between a Focus (Windham) and a Corvette(BCM)? Well actually let's start with the similarities first. Both of our vehicles run, both get from point A to point B, both have not failed us yet, both handle the speed limit very well, both can exceed the normal conditions in which the cars were built, and both happen to be well made ( that's subjective of course). So Bigmoney890, what's your point? My point is, that for me, my Ford Focus does me fine, and i'll never see the extra benefit of a corvette. But my buddy on the other hand, loves speed, races his car, and constantly is pushing the motor and he wouldn't be satisfied with my Focus and good gas mileage (low cost correlation between gasoline and a budget AR, see what I did there? :rofl:)

So, my final summation, there's nothing wrong with a Ford Focus (Windham Weaponry AR) for my intended purposes, but i'll never expect it to beat a Corvette ("High End" AR) in top end.

/thread.

tampashooters

11-26-2012, 18:47

I'm hopefully going to stop the derailment of this thread caused by some obvious Windham Fanboys (yes I said it). I'll make a comparison that everyone can relate to, and if you disagree, I don't care because it's probably because of you that this thread has turned to constant banter and such.

I drive a Ford Focus (Windham Weaponry AR). I have a buddy with a Chevy Corvette (at the risk of starting another argument, let's go with a Bravo Company AR). You know the differences between a Focus (Windham) and a Corvette(BCM)? Well actually let's start with the similarities first. Both of our vehicles run, both get from point A to point B, both have not failed us yet, both handle the speed limit very well, both can exceed the normal conditions in which the cars were built, and both happen to be well made ( that's subjective of course). So Bigmoney890, what's your point? My point is, that for me, my Ford Focus does me fine, and i'll never see the extra benefit of a corvette. But my buddy on the other hand, loves speed, races his car, and constantly is pushing the motor and he wouldn't be satisfied with my Focus and good gas mileage (low cost correlation between gasoline and a budget AR, see what I did there? :rofl:)

So, my final summation, there's nothing wrong with a Ford Focus (Windham Weaponry AR) for my intended purposes, but i'll never expect it to beat a Corvette ("High End" AR) in top end.

/thread.

Never say never.....:rofl:

Ironically, I just saw a broke down Corvette on the way home today, but alas, no broke down Focus' in sight..

bigmoney890

11-26-2012, 18:51

Never say never.....:rofl:

Ironically, I just saw a broke down Corvette on the way home today, but alas, no broke down Focus' in sight..

DAMN YOU!:rofl:

Rooster Rugburn

11-26-2012, 19:56

I like his videos, they are well done. Saying that someone has more credibility just because they post video's is one of the goofiest things I have ever heard. Plenty of guys out there with incredible knowledge don't post vids, that does not make them some "wanna be" or "fan boy".

If you want to take it completely literally, then do so. The kids here love playing up errors in expressing an idea, so you fit right in.

Plenty of people here have an abundance of knowledge, but aren't insecure and need the validation of "giving recommendations" or desperately needing their "recommendation" to be followed. They also aren't so insecure they have to "shout down" a differing view point. There is another piece of text you can take literally, but I imagine most people know what I mean.

Most of the people with "incredible knowledge" left Glock Talk a long time ago. These now couldn't carry their water.

Sturmgewehre is like Hickok 45, he does good videos, and doesn't appear to be agenda driven. His videos have more value than every post the fan boys here post.

With respect to "The Chart". In times past, whenever the subject came up about 'which AR' I would post links to M4C and "The Chart", so people could read it for themselves and make their own decision. This one thread at M4C is really about all that needs to be said.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376

bmoore

11-26-2012, 20:03

If you want to take it completely literally, then do so. The kids here love playing up errors in expressing an idea, so you fit right in.

Plenty of people here have an abundance of knowledge, but aren't insecure and need the validation of "giving recommendations" or desperately needing their "recommendation" to be followed. They also aren't so insecure they have to "shout down" a differing view point. There is another piece of text you can take literally, but I imagine most people know what I mean.

Most of the people with "incredible knowledge" left Glock Talk a long time ago. These now couldn't carry their water.

Sturmgewehre is like Hickok 45, he does good videos, and doesn't appear to be agenda driven. His videos have more value than every post the fan boys here post.

With respect to "The Chart". In times past, whenever the subject came up about 'which AR' I would post links to M4C and "The Chart", so people could read it for themselves and make their own decision. This one thread at M4C is really about all that needs to be said.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376

Lots of useless sentences in that response so I will get down to my most important question. Whats a fanboy? Someone who likes a certain brand? Someone who appreciates a company that gets his stuff out on time, shipped to the correct state, no missing parts, gets a response from CS when its needed? Someone who appreciates nice equipment? Is that a fanboy?

Ruggles

11-26-2012, 21:10

Ahhh AR brand war threads.....responsible for more pissing from AR fan boys than Anheuser-Busch on a NFL Sunday :tongueout:

Veedubklown

11-27-2012, 00:48

Lots of useless sentences in that response so I will get down to my most important question. Whats a fanboy? Someone who likes a certain brand? Someone who appreciates a company that gets his stuff out on time, shipped to the correct state, no missing parts, gets a response from CS when its needed? Someone who appreciates nice equipment? Is that a fanboy?

People who spend $150 on michael jordon loafers, because they say jordon on them.

Some guys will tout on all day about how glocks are the best handgun in the world, and no one should own anything else, less they be t3h ghey. I like glocks, but there's nothing wrong with 1911's, BHP, revolvers, etc.

WinterWizard

11-27-2012, 01:10

I like ALL quality ARs. If I had the money, I would have one of each. I dislike when people defend one brand and spread misinformation about every other brand in a pathetic attempt to make their brand look better. Talk about being a slave to the advertising gods. Holy crap.

AK_Stick

11-27-2012, 02:24

Who is "spreading misinformation"?

Also who has been bad mouthing all other brands and what brand were they defending? I'm confused. All I seem to see was people commenting on how WW is still doing some of the things wrong, that they were doing when they were named bushmaster.

I haven't seen anyone say they're bad guns or worthless. Or generally talk bad about them in any way shape or form.

mvician

11-27-2012, 05:15

that's fanboyism.........just like racism works both ways :supergrin:

WinterWizard

11-27-2012, 17:00

Who is "spreading misinformation"?

Also who has been bad mouthing all other brands and what brand were they defending? I'm confused. All I seem to see was people commenting on how WW is still doing some of the things wrong, that they were doing when they were named bushmaster.

I haven't seen anyone say they're bad guns or worthless. Or generally talk bad about them in any way shape or form.

I did say I like ALL quality ARs and if I had the money I would own one of each. Please quote me where I was bashing any other brands, in any way. Colts are awesome. And I am sure I will own one someday. It's the fanboys I hate.

Please site one thing that is "wrong" with an WW. Something that affects function, not something that doesn't adhere to an imaginary bible of how an AR-15 should be built by the self-appointed AR nazis. I am waiting for your proof or documentation from a reliable source. You still haven't provided it. All you've provided is assumptions. You keep talking but provide no facts.

For one, here (http://www.windhamweaponry.com/pdf/UpdatedTechSheets/MPCMSRPPRICING.pdf) is their spec sheet. It lists a standard A2 front sight. NOT a F marked front sight.

WinterWizard

11-28-2012, 00:30

Did you bother to look anything up either?

For one, here (http://www.windhamweaponry.com/pdf/UpdatedTechSheets/MPCMSRPPRICING.pdf) is their spec sheet. It lists a standard A2 front sight. NOT a F marked front sight.

Did you bother to read the thread?

AK_Stick

11-28-2012, 00:51

So what you are saying is you have nothing to back up your claims?

I haven't claimed anything in this thread? Wtf are you talking about?

I asked you to clarify what WW did differently from BM, as you claimed they now follow different practices.

You've since gone off on a tangent. And later adopted the mantra of " those slight differences aren't significant".

As I said, stick around. You obviously have alot of learning to do. Personally, I haven't made any claims about WW being good, bad or otherwise. I simply questioned your statement that they were somehow superior to BM, when they are at the very least following some of BM's improper techniques.

WinterWizard

11-28-2012, 01:17

I haven't claimed anything in this thread? Wtf are you talking about?

I asked you to clarify what WW did differently from BM, as you claimed they now follow different practices.

You've since gone off on a tangent. And later adopted the mantra of " those slight differences aren't significant".

As I said, stick around. You obviously have alot of learning to do. Personally, I haven't made any claims about WW being good, bad or otherwise. I simply questioned your statement that they were somehow superior to BM, when they are at the very least following some of BM's improper techniques.

You obviously haven't read my posts, either. And don't pretend to condescend me. I am not your son or underling.

AK_Stick

11-28-2012, 01:26

I'm not pretending to condescend anyone. I want you to learn. Theres lots of good info here, and quite a bit of experience. You could learn quite a bit.

WinterWizard

11-28-2012, 01:47

I'm not pretending to condescend anyone. I want you to learn. Theres lots of good info here, and quite a bit of experience. You could learn quite a bit.

When I want to self-educate on a subject I won't be doing so on a forum where you could be getting advice from a 15-year-old, or from people whose advice you didn't ask for. :wavey:

bigmoney890

11-28-2012, 08:06

Did you bother to read the thread?
Oh, you mean MY thread that you and Rooster derailed? Why yes, actually

And saying something isn't providing proof. It's no more than hearsay. Documents and official links, bro - not something someone said on another forum or some rumor you heard. You have claimed that WW has the same "problems" that BM used to have yet you have not provided one shred of proof.

I just showed some proof.

Old AR-15 charts claim the BM is batch tested parts, blue extractor spring, non-shot peened bolt. WW tests their barrels and bolts, has the black extractor spring, shot peened bolt, 4150 barrel, carpenter 158 bolt, chrome-lined bolt carrier, chamber and barrel, properly staked gas key, M4 feed ramps and full auto carrier. The only things that the AR-15 snobs have to complain about are a commercial buffer tube and unstaked castle nut. One makes no difference on performance and one is a preference thing.

Bushmaster currently does all of things you just mentioned that WW does.

Anyone that has had experience with the new WWs knows and admits that it is a superior product to the old BMs.

Wrong. In fact, most people agree that the Bushmaster WAS a good product when it was being made in windham, and has only RECENTLY gone to ****. Windham is producing virtually the same gun as when they were the "old BM."

fnfalman

11-28-2012, 09:37

Now if only FN were to sell semiauto ARs, it would end the argument of which one is the best.

WinterWizard

11-28-2012, 15:07

Bushmaster currently does all of things you just mentioned that WW does.

Wrong. In fact, most people agree that the Bushmaster WAS a good product when it was being made in windham, and has only RECENTLY gone to ****. Windham is producing virtually the same gun as when they were the "old BM."

So, which is it, bro? Are they currently doing all the right things or have they gone to ****?

And this thread isn't yours. It belongs to Glocktalk and any GT member can post in it as long as it remains open.

But whatever. This thread is officially retarded.

bigmoney890

11-28-2012, 15:13

So, which is it, bro? Are they currently doing all the right things or have they gone to ****?

And this thread isn't yours. It belongs to Glocktalk and any GT member can post in it as long as it remains open.

But whatever. This thread is officially retarded.

I never said either company was right or wrong, just stating what they are currently doing. I guess your just mad that someone proved you wrong? :dunno:

WinterWizard

11-28-2012, 16:22

I never said either company was right or wrong, just stating what they are currently doing. I guess your just mad that someone proved you wrong? :dunno:

Proved me wrong how? By saying I am wrong? WW is a good product and I have you admitting it. I know you started a thread and someone disagreed with you. But it'll be okay. Take a valium, drink a beer, do what you gotta do. :dunno:

bigmoney890

11-28-2012, 16:31

I never said anything good or bad about windham, so how could someone disagree with me? Try harder to discredit me next time http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/wavey%5B1%5D.gif

WinterWizard

11-28-2012, 17:08

I never said anything good or bad about windham, so how could someone disagree with me? Try harder to discredit me next time http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/wavey%5B1%5D.gif

Good, we agree then. Never was trying to discredit you, just the notion by others that WW and BM are the same gun. They're not.

Paul53

11-28-2012, 18:41

I saw a thread once where everybody agreed, people were civil to each other, no pissing contests, no grammar nazis. It wasn't on Glocktalk though!

:popcorn:

Continue the battle of wits!

exmdshooter

12-02-2012, 17:11

I saw a thread once where everybody agreed, people were civil to each other, no pissing contests, no grammar nazis.

Yeah... and how boring was that? How many people actually posted to said "hypothetical" thread? Did anybody care?

:tongueout:

Seriously, the fanboys are strong in this thread. I'm the proud owner of a "ban era" Bushy (my first AR) and two Colts... one is the "holy grail" of all ARs... the vaunted 6920... the AR of ARs... perfection incarnate... mil-spec even, or so I'm told. The only AR a truly intelligent person would even think of owning. The other is a rather ratty vintage model 614 AR-15... lots of rack wear on the outside but pristine on the inside... doesn't even have a forward assist, or many of the other necessities of a "real" quality AR... but it does have one thing the others don't... a happy switch.

All three are great rifles. Yup - I said it - all three. I know... I must be just a dumb rube. All three rifles have thousands of rounds through them, none have ever hiccuped even once, and all three are my "favorite" rifle. But what the hell do I know?

Based on what I've seen of Windham, I may add a fourth AR to the safe... unstaked castle nut not withstanding.

mvician

12-02-2012, 18:40

oops! :whistling:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/windham.jpg

WoodenPlank

12-02-2012, 18:45

oops! :whistling:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/windham.jpg

WTF is it? Zooming in on my phone let's me read the text, but I can't see enough detail to ID the bit that fell out. I do see what looks like a busted roll pin, though.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

mvician

12-02-2012, 19:04

The pawl out of the forward assist.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/forassiswrdt.jpg

Matthew Courtney

12-02-2012, 19:29

It will mean quite a bit more work to get your elevation dialed in when zeroing, but that's the brunt of it. It's the simple matter that the F-marked FSB is what is needed to match to a flat-top upper, and some companies just refuse to build them right. I guess they figure it's one less part to stock and one less part to do differently on different style uppers. However, it's still the wrong part.

I thought the difference was due to the shorter sight radius.

WoodenPlank

12-02-2012, 19:33

I thought the difference was due to the shorter sight radius.

For the F marked? Nope, you still need an F marked for a mid or rifle with a flat top upper. I didn't know till recently that there's even different charging handles (detachable) to match an F marked or an A2.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

WoodenPlank

12-02-2012, 19:34

The pawl out of the forward assist.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/mvician/forassiswrdt.jpg

Never actually looked that hard at a forward assist when outside the upper. Never seen one fail like that, either.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Rooster Rugburn

12-02-2012, 19:45

I saw a thread once where everybody agreed, people were civil to each other, no pissing contests, no grammar nazis. It wasn't on Glocktalk though!

Last week I shot a spike deer with my WW Varmint Exterminator. Right before he died, he said "you should have used a Colt you bastage!"

That's how FUBAR this thread sounds.

bmoore

12-04-2012, 08:55

Last week I shot a spike deer with my WW Varmint Exterminator. Right before he died, he said "you should have used a Colt you bastage!"

That's how FUBAR this thread sounds.

Wow thats a cute story. You can head back to general firearms now and tell everyone about your sic Varmint AR rifle.

bigmoney890

12-04-2012, 10:05

Wow thats a cute story. You can head back to general fireamrs now and tell everyone about your sic Varmint AR rifle.

:rofl:

gregs55150

12-26-2012, 17:15

I have a Windham Weaponry AR-15 MPC-C that i got from Cabelas just before this school shooting.It has a Diamondhead flip up sight and the A-2 front sight and it shot in the bullseye at 40yds right out of the box.I shot about 150rnds which in comparison to some of you isnt much.I mixed brass cased rounds with metal cased rounds and varied the 5.56 with.223 and not once did it have a problem.It spit all 30rnds out like a 10/22.I think this WW is a nice rifle and for what I wanted it for will suit me,mostly target shooting.I havent got any optics for it yet but this rifle shoots accuratly just the way it is for me.
GREG

Boot Stomper

12-27-2012, 07:48

The Windhams are selling really well here. Getting a chrome lined barrel, MP bolt, properly staked gas key, and a lifetime warranty for $799 is a pretty good deal. It's certainly not a Colt, but it's better than Bushmaster for $150 less.

I got the same deal $799.00 on the Windham SRC (Sight Ready Carbine). Impressed so far.