Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

I saw a news broad cast on youtube about this monastery, where Orthodox families were worried about their sons' lives because of abuse or something, ill see if i can find it. Either way, Lord, have mercy!

I know two people who went down there for a visit a few months ago and they loved it. I don't understand what people's problem is. Do these people not understand what monasteries are about?

The families need to learn that if their children become monks, they must forsake all worldly things, including (in a way) family. If we even look at Mount Athos and other monasteries, the monks don't even leave if they get word that a family member is dying.

As for how much all of it costs (relating to that video), why does that even matter at all? Couldn't some of the money be coming from the Greek state?

Leave it to American news media to hype up and screw up a news investigation about a holy monastery that promotes rejection of worldly things...

The title of this post, though, should more accurately say "former novice", since he had not been a resident of the monastery for some time before his tragic demise.

This man and his family are now in need of much prayer. His non-Orthodox parents were vehemently against Orthodoxy and the monastery in particular; and constantly harassed the bishop, the monastery, and their son about his decision to become an Orthodox monk. His dad has been known to join Orthodox discussion lists and send lengthy messages railing against all things Orthodox. After 6 years, his son did leave the monastery and returned home to his parents; but now that he has left his parents and returned to the monastery to end his own life, his father is all the more enraged and blames Orthodoxy, the bishop, and the monastery, for his son’s decision to take his own life. May the Lord remove this bitterness and heal these most painful wounds.

The former novice left a lot of comments on YouTube in the months prior to his tragic end that suggest that he was not well. He claimed, for instance, that the monastery buries monks while they are still living (to explain why monastics there and on Mt. Athos do not experience rigor mortis before their burial), that the Holy Fire in Jerusalem is a fake, that Elder Joseph the Hesychast was a charlatan, the monastery’s Elder is “from Satan”, and many other things that are beyond belief.

In his public YouTube profile, it can be seen that this man was also viewing and "liking" a number of videos on machine guns and the making of explosives in recent months. The fact that the report linked above states that he went to the monastery with two guns and a knife suggests that he may have intended to end more lives than just his own. In the midst of such a tragedy, we can perhaps be relieved that more lives did not end on this sad day.

May the Lord have mercy and give strength to all who are impacted by this tragedy.

I know two people who went down there for a visit a few months ago and they loved it. I don't understand what people's problem is. Do these people not understand what monasteries are about?

The families need to learn that if their children become monks, they must forsake all worldly things, including (in a way) family. If we even look at Mount Athos and other monasteries, the monks don't even leave if they get word that a family member is dying.

As for how much all of it costs (relating to that video), why does that even matter at all? Couldn't some of the money be coming from the Greek state?

Leave it to American news media to hype up and screw up a news investigation about a holy monastery that promotes rejection of worldly things...

There are traditionally-minded people who have concerns about St. Anthony's Monastery and Fr. Ephraim. It's not just liberal people who don't "get" monasticism. You say you know two people who loved it there; I know several people who loved it, and several people who thought it was a cult. All are committed Orthodox Christians.

I know two people who went down there for a visit a few months ago and they loved it. I don't understand what people's problem is. Do these people not understand what monasteries are about?

The families need to learn that if their children become monks, they must forsake all worldly things, including (in a way) family. If we even look at Mount Athos and other monasteries, the monks don't even leave if they get word that a family member is dying.

As for how much all of it costs (relating to that video), why does that even matter at all? Couldn't some of the money be coming from the Greek state?

Leave it to American news media to hype up and screw up a news investigation about a holy monastery that promotes rejection of worldly things...

There are traditionally-minded people who have concerns about St. Anthony's Monastery and Fr. Ephraim. It's not just liberal people who don't "get" monasticism. You say you know two people who loved it there; I know several people who loved it, and several people who thought it was a cult. All are committed Orthodox Christians.

In 97 when I visited Mount Athos several monasteries pulled me aside to ask what I knew of Fr. Ephraim. Some even felt like police interrogations. These very traditional monastics were concerned by the young men who were showing up from America who had been influenced by the Ephraimite Monasteries. At least three different monasteries on Mount Athos told me to stay away from his monasteries in America because they were not healthy.

I think at lot has changed in 15 years and there are good places and bad places. Not every monk is a holy elder, monks are trying to struggle with their own salvation just like you and I and fail just like we do.

I know two people who went down there for a visit a few months ago and they loved it. I don't understand what people's problem is. Do these people not understand what monasteries are about?

The families need to learn that if their children become monks, they must forsake all worldly things, including (in a way) family. If we even look at Mount Athos and other monasteries, the monks don't even leave if they get word that a family member is dying.

As for how much all of it costs (relating to that video), why does that even matter at all? Couldn't some of the money be coming from the Greek state?

Leave it to American news media to hype up and screw up a news investigation about a holy monastery that promotes rejection of worldly things...

There are traditionally-minded people who have concerns about St. Anthony's Monastery and Fr. Ephraim. It's not just liberal people who don't "get" monasticism. You say you know two people who loved it there; I know several people who loved it, and several people who thought it was a cult. All are committed Orthodox Christians.

In 97 when I visited Mount Athos several monasteries pulled me aside to ask what I knew of Fr. Ephraim. Some even felt like police interrogations. These very traditional monastics were concerned by the young men who were showing up from America who had been influenced by the Ephraimite Monasteries. At least three different monasteries on Mount Athos told me to stay away from his monasteries in America because they were not healthy.

I think at lot has changed in 15 years and there are good places and bad places. Not every monk is a holy elder, monks are trying to struggle with their own salvation just like you and I and fail just like we do.

What aspects of Elder Ephraim's practice were the Athonites you spoke with particularly concerned about?

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"A riddle or the cricket's cryIs to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

I know two people who went down there for a visit a few months ago and they loved it. I don't understand what people's problem is. Do these people not understand what monasteries are about?

The families need to learn that if their children become monks, they must forsake all worldly things, including (in a way) family. If we even look at Mount Athos and other monasteries, the monks don't even leave if they get word that a family member is dying.

As for how much all of it costs (relating to that video), why does that even matter at all? Couldn't some of the money be coming from the Greek state?

Leave it to American news media to hype up and screw up a news investigation about a holy monastery that promotes rejection of worldly things...

There are traditionally-minded people who have concerns about St. Anthony's Monastery and Fr. Ephraim. It's not just liberal people who don't "get" monasticism. You say you know two people who loved it there; I know several people who loved it, and several people who thought it was a cult. All are committed Orthodox Christians.

In 97 when I visited Mount Athos several monasteries pulled me aside to ask what I knew of Fr. Ephraim. Some even felt like police interrogations. These very traditional monastics were concerned by the young men who were showing up from America who had been influenced by the Ephraimite Monasteries. At least three different monasteries on Mount Athos told me to stay away from his monasteries in America because they were not healthy.

I think at lot has changed in 15 years and there are good places and bad places. Not every monk is a holy elder, monks are trying to struggle with their own salvation just like you and I and fail just like we do.

When I was in Greece I had an Old Calendarist and an Orthodox Christian both ask me about Elder Ephraim and if I'd ever been to Arizona. They showed me a calendar and stuff they'd gotten in the mail from there...

I know many Priests who've warned their faithful to watch out, not just at these, but all monasteries because the monastics are deep into the spiritual life and experts at monastic asceticism, but they don't know much about married asceticism and life in (but not of) the world.

I've even heard of some of Elder Ephraim's monks advising couples to fast from each other for a period of time, which inevitably caused undue tensions and conflict in the marriage, sometimes causing lustful passions to flare in one or each party and causing terrible strife between the couple...

I've also heard of other things, but monasteries are for going for quiet and solitude, for rest and spiritual excercises. But they aren't for us "worldly" ascetics to go seek advice and penance.

I've even heard of some of Elder Ephraim's monks advising couples to fast from each other for a period of time, which inevitably caused undue tensions and conflict in the marriage, sometimes causing lustful passions to flare in one or each party and causing terrible strife between the couple...

If the advice was for the couples to refrain from marital relations during lenten periods, what's the hassle in that? This is standard Orthodox teaching and advice. If certain Orthodox couples couldn't handle such advice, then it's not the fault of him who advised them.

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No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to PM me or email me at the address in my profile.

I've even heard of some of Elder Ephraim's monks advising couples to fast from each other for a period of time, which inevitably caused undue tensions and conflict in the marriage, sometimes causing lustful passions to flare in one or each party and causing terrible strife between the couple...

If the advice was for the couples to refrain from marital relations during lenten periods, what's the hassle in that? This is standard Orthodox teaching and advice. If certain Orthodox couples couldn't handle such advice, then it's not the fault of him who advised them.

It wasn't for the Lenten Period it was part of their penance for confession. From what I've seen, it's wrong for anyone to get that personal in confession, the confessor has no business in your sexual activities in marriage.

Besides, we need to look at St Paul who says it is only to be done by consent of both husband and wife and as soon as lustful feelings begin to overtake them, they must cease.

I've even heard of some of Elder Ephraim's monks advising couples to fast from each other for a period of time, which inevitably caused undue tensions and conflict in the marriage, sometimes causing lustful passions to flare in one or each party and causing terrible strife between the couple...

If the advice was for the couples to refrain from marital relations during lenten periods, what's the hassle in that? This is standard Orthodox teaching and advice.

It's also standard teaching and advice to follow the teachings of the Apostle Paul who said only "by agreement". (cf. 1 Corinthians 7:5)

I've even heard of some of Elder Ephraim's monks advising couples to fast from each other for a period of time, which inevitably caused undue tensions and conflict in the marriage, sometimes causing lustful passions to flare in one or each party and causing terrible strife between the couple...

If the advice was for the couples to refrain from marital relations during lenten periods, what's the hassle in that? This is standard Orthodox teaching and advice.

It's also standard teaching and advice to follow the teachings of the Apostle Paul who said only "by agreement". (cf. 1 Corinthians 7:5)

I know two people who went down there for a visit a few months ago and they loved it. I don't understand what people's problem is. Do these people not understand what monasteries are about?

The families need to learn that if their children become monks, they must forsake all worldly things, including (in a way) family. If we even look at Mount Athos and other monasteries, the monks don't even leave if they get word that a family member is dying.

As for how much all of it costs (relating to that video), why does that even matter at all? Couldn't some of the money be coming from the Greek state?

Leave it to American news media to hype up and screw up a news investigation about a holy monastery that promotes rejection of worldly things...

There are traditionally-minded people who have concerns about St. Anthony's Monastery and Fr. Ephraim. It's not just liberal people who don't "get" monasticism. You say you know two people who loved it there; I know several people who loved it, and several people who thought it was a cult. All are committed Orthodox Christians.

In 97 when I visited Mount Athos several monasteries pulled me aside to ask what I knew of Fr. Ephraim. Some even felt like police interrogations. These very traditional monastics were concerned by the young men who were showing up from America who had been influenced by the Ephraimite Monasteries. At least three different monasteries on Mount Athos told me to stay away from his monasteries in America because they were not healthy.

I think at lot has changed in 15 years and there are good places and bad places. Not every monk is a holy elder, monks are trying to struggle with their own salvation just like you and I and fail just like we do.

What aspects of Elder Ephraim's practice were the Athonites you spoke with particularly concerned about?

I've even heard of some of Elder Ephraim's monks advising couples to fast from each other for a period of time, which inevitably caused undue tensions and conflict in the marriage, sometimes causing lustful passions to flare in one or each party and causing terrible strife between the couple...

If the advice was for the couples to refrain from marital relations during lenten periods, what's the hassle in that? This is standard Orthodox teaching and advice.

It's also standard teaching and advice to follow the teachings of the Apostle Paul who said only "by agreement". (cf. 1 Corinthians 7:5)

I saw a news broad cast on youtube about this monastery, where Orthodox families were worried about their sons' lives because of abuse or something, ill see if i can find it. Either way, Lord, have mercy!

My friend has visited there, and is there again. Trust me, that interview is full of crap. Elder Ephraim is a great man, and I find it disgusting that the people in that news broadcast lie like that. Those that don't lie just don't understand what it takes to be a monk.

I've even heard of some of Elder Ephraim's monks advising couples to fast from each other for a period of time, which inevitably caused undue tensions and conflict in the marriage, sometimes causing lustful passions to flare in one or each party and causing terrible strife between the couple...

If the advice was for the couples to refrain from marital relations during lenten periods, what's the hassle in that? This is standard Orthodox teaching and advice.

It's also standard teaching and advice to follow the teachings of the Apostle Paul who said only "by agreement". (cf. 1 Corinthians 7:5)

I've even heard of some of Elder Ephraim's monks advising couples to fast from each other for a period of time, which inevitably caused undue tensions and conflict in the marriage, sometimes causing lustful passions to flare in one or each party and causing terrible strife between the couple...

If the advice was for the couples to refrain from marital relations during lenten periods, what's the hassle in that? This is standard Orthodox teaching and advice.

It's also standard teaching and advice to follow the teachings of the Apostle Paul who said only "by agreement". (cf. 1 Corinthians 7:5)

If certain Orthodox couples couldn't handle such advice, then it's not the fault of him who advised them.

Well, to a certain extent, it may be, if the monk who advised them doesn't know the couple all that well.

What you are doing is making excuses for people. Keeping clear of sex is part of fasting.

No, not making excuses for anyone, especially since I don't make any claims to know what I'm talking about. Just tempering what can be an excessive asceticism by offering some advice from Scripture. Since it appears that St. Paul addressed the relationship between marital relations and fasting, I thought his words pertinent to this discussion.

I saw a news broad cast on youtube about this monastery, where Orthodox families were worried about their sons' lives because of abuse or something, ill see if i can find it. Either way, Lord, have mercy!

My friend has visited there, and is there again. Trust me, that interview is full of crap. Elder Ephraim is a great man, and I find it disgusting that the people in that news broadcast lie like that. Those that don't lie just don't understand what it takes to be a monk.

I've been to St. Anthony's many times. I have also gone to confession there. I have never personally experienced excessive penances or despondency while there, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Whatever the truth is let it come to light. We shouldn't be quick to condemn or defend. We don't have the facts. The most important thing we can do right now is pray for the soul of this man.

« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 12:28:03 AM by Ionnis »

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"If you cannot find Christ in the beggar at the church door, you will not find Him in the chalice.” -The Divine John Chrysostom

“Till we can become divine, we must be content to be human, lest in our hurry for change we sink to something lower.” -Anthony Trollope

No, not making excuses for anyone, especially since I don't make any claims to know what I'm talking about. Just tempering what can be an excessive asceticism by offering some advice from Scripture. Since it appears that St. Paul addressed the relationship between marital relations and fasting, I thought his words pertinent to this discussion.

And, PtA, St Paul's words are adhered to by a great many Orthodox couples. You are still young in age and faith, and, if I'm not mistaken, not married. Do not dismiss or dilute what we, older in many ways, have to say.

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No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to PM me or email me at the address in my profile.

No, not making excuses for anyone, especially since I don't make any claims to know what I'm talking about. Just tempering what can be an excessive asceticism by offering some advice from Scripture. Since it appears that St. Paul addressed the relationship between marital relations and fasting, I thought his words pertinent to this discussion.

And, PtA, St Paul's words are adhered to by a great many Orthodox couples. You are still young in age and faith, and, if I'm not mistaken, not married. Do not dismiss or dilute what we, older in many ways, have to say.

No, not making excuses for anyone, especially since I don't make any claims to know what I'm talking about. Just tempering what can be an excessive asceticism by offering some advice from Scripture. Since it appears that St. Paul addressed the relationship between marital relations and fasting, I thought his words pertinent to this discussion.

And, PtA, St Paul's words are adhered to by a great many Orthodox couples. You are still young in age and faith, and, if I'm not mistaken, not married. Do not dismiss or dilute what we, older in many ways, have to say.

I'm not dismissing anything.

Your words:

Quote

No, not making excuses for anyone, especially since I don't make any claims to know what I'm talking about. Just tempering what can be an excessive asceticism by offering some advice from Scripture. Since it appears that St. Paul addressed the relationship between marital relations and fasting, I thought his words pertinent to this discussion.

Ever the obfuscator. Anything goes, except when it interferes with your own view.

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No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to PM me or email me at the address in my profile.

No, not making excuses for anyone, especially since I don't make any claims to know what I'm talking about. Just tempering what can be an excessive asceticism by offering some advice from Scripture. Since it appears that St. Paul addressed the relationship between marital relations and fasting, I thought his words pertinent to this discussion.

And, PtA, St Paul's words are adhered to by a great many Orthodox couples. You are still young in age and faith, and, if I'm not mistaken, not married. Do not dismiss or dilute what we, older in many ways, have to say.

I'm not dismissing anything.

Your words:

Quote

No, not making excuses for anyone, especially since I don't make any claims to know what I'm talking about. Just tempering what can be an excessive asceticism by offering some advice from Scripture. Since it appears that St. Paul addressed the relationship between marital relations and fasting, I thought his words pertinent to this discussion.

Ever the obfuscator. Anything goes, except when it interferes with your own view.

Believe what you want, LBK. It seems you'd rather do that than actually listen to anything I have to say in my defense.

No, not making excuses for anyone, especially since I don't make any claims to know what I'm talking about. Just tempering what can be an excessive asceticism by offering some advice from Scripture. Since it appears that St. Paul addressed the relationship between marital relations and fasting, I thought his words pertinent to this discussion.

And, PtA, St Paul's words are adhered to by a great many Orthodox couples. You are still young in age and faith, and, if I'm not mistaken, not married. Do not dismiss or dilute what we, older in many ways, have to say.

You are the only one trying to dismiss anyone else, in this case Peter, by saying "I'm older, I know better."

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I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice. Can you guess what it is?

No, not making excuses for anyone, especially since I don't make any claims to know what I'm talking about. Just tempering what can be an excessive asceticism by offering some advice from Scripture. Since it appears that St. Paul addressed the relationship between marital relations and fasting, I thought his words pertinent to this discussion.

And, PtA, St Paul's words are adhered to by a great many Orthodox couples. You are still young in age and faith, and, if I'm not mistaken, not married. Do not dismiss or dilute what we, older in many ways, have to say.

You are the only one trying to dismiss anyone else, in this case Peter, by saying "I'm older, I know better."

Odd that I should have your support, but thank you for understanding, nonetheless.