PUBLIC Forum for general discussion on the DNA Project. The DNA project includes both Highland and lowland Livingston/es as well as MacLeas and other related names. Please do NOT post private information to this Forum.

First of all, to explain our mixed references, the family line Donald and Roberta are discussing is the same group we have mentioned in various places as a line where we needed to have several people test 67 markers before it became obvious that it was distinct. I consider it a major discovery.

The reason we sometimes also refer to it as the Parker/Livingston group is that we have a Parker family in it. This Parker family already had stories of a possible Livingston connection, so this is one of those "exceptions that proves rules".

So having already mentioned the value of 67 marker upgrades for this group, there is something NEW we have discovered, which is that this group is negative for the SNP mutation named L21, although it is positive for P312. This is unusual enough to now make SNP testing interesting for many of our R1b participating families. For many others, the SNP status is ALREADY clear, but for those where the status is unclear, it would be very interesting to check whether you match Roberta and Donald's "Parker/Livingston" group.

Just to be clear about the R1b haplogroup clusters with ambiguous and non-ambiguous SNP testing results (which give the overall "branch" within the R1b lineage that each originates from), I thought I'd point out Andrew's summary that he sent some participants a few days ago... I've hidden names where appropriate.

Which groups of R1b DO have a clear SNP status…

1. All in the Scots cluster, which includes a lot of people in the project. 2. Kyle’s cluster 26, because Kyle tested **Kyle's note: that would be me!** 3. The Boggs cluster, because someone tested 4. The MacWho cluster, because Andrew tested his Livingstones. 5. The Poropotank cluster, because someone tested 6. Roberta’s group (P312+/L21-), because that has now been checked. 7. All the ones with the clear M222 haplotypes. 8. 113767 Livingston individual, and probably also Maclay 106058

So I note some interesting cases where the SNP status is NOT clear:

1. The Greene County group 2. The Liebenstein group 3. The Dr Livingstone group 4. The Clermont group 5. Our little group made up of 12063 and 29085 6. All the miscellaneous ones not mentioned above.

So, anyone falling into one of the bottom groups may wish to consider SNP testing. This doesn't need to be the full "Deep Clade" test, but could just involve using FTDNA's Advanced Marker options and testing exclusively for L21 to start. This would just be the transfer fee ($9.50) plus the single L21 marker cost. Note that only 1 person needs to be tested for well-defined clusters. In cases where there is some ambiguity of whether a cluster is real or not, it might be helpful to test more than one person.

If anyone has questions, let Andrew or me or any of the other co-admins know.