* Assassin’s Charge o Recast time will be reduced from fifteen minutes to five. o Additional merit points will no longer reduce recast time, but instead increase accuracy by 25% per point.

* Feint o Recast time will be reduced from ten minutes to two. o Additional merit points will no longer reduce recast time, but instead raise the chance of Treasure Hunter leveling up by 25% per point.

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Looks like SE wants us to have 5/5 feint again. I wonder how it will work with multiple thfs attacking at once. Like will each thf have a 100% chance to increase TH once? Will all SA+TAs that hit durring feint increase TH? Maybe it only works for the THF that used the JA idk.

It will be fun to test out how it works when the change is made. I wonder if we will find a TH cap maybe or be able to jack drop rates of some items to 100%? Could lead to a really good understanding of how TH works if enough time is put into testing. I can see an army of THFs stabbing away at some abyssea nm to see what we can do with this.

As to *** Charge... Why acc increase? 99.99999% of the time I use AC it is with a WS and With SA or TA. The triple is 100% acc already with JAs... Why not attack, or crit (esp crit that could crit non crit ws like dnc can do) or even str or ws damage or anything else except acc. Fail SE.

I would've preferred to see an increase to Attack. I always felt like THF accuracy was never a problem - it was always an Attack deficit I had to fight against.

I also don't remember if a 3A guarantees the extra hits of a WS that 3As. Ex: SA+Mercy Stroke with DW, so 2 hits. 3A procs on main hand, so it's 4 hits. Do you guarantee a 4 hit return, or just the 2? So used to old-school DE/EV only that I never really considered it.

The accuracy bit on AssCharge is rather useless, because SA/AC already has excellent accuracy, only way it'll be that useful is for DE/Evisc, but an extra two hits isn't always that huge for those ws's (compared to Mercy and such). It's there because they kept AC and Warrior's Charge the same and warriors can use the accuracy.

Feint seems okay, I guess. But I don't play THF to be a TH *****, so I dunno if I'd ever actually put points there. I wish it was something like increased critical rate/damage while it's applied.

Feint seems okay, I guess. But I don't play THF to be a TH *****, so I dunno if I'd ever actually put points there. I wish it was something like increased critical rate/damage while it's applied.

The way I look at it, SE just gave me a reason to keep Feint at 1/5. If you don't care about the extra procs of TH, then you can spend merits elsewhere. Granted, the options are basically AssCharge (which with 1 merit would be equivalent to 5 merits now), lolAmbush or Aura Steal.

Personally, I would probably still take Feint to max for farming reasons. But that's just me.

Just to clarify a point, the 100% accuracy on sa/ta multi procs only applies to melee swings. It has no effect on weaponskill accuracy. There was a lot of confusion on this subject years ago. If a standard attack round stacked with SA or TA procs a multi attack round all swings on the main and offhand will have perfect accuracy. However if you stack sneak attack with assassin's charge and throw out a weaponskill those extra swings can and will miss just as readily as if that weaponskill wasn't stacked with sneak attack at all. I found this out the hard way when I actually started paying attention to my tp returns when I stacked SA *** charge shark bite against Odin while doing einherjar, only to find I was only getting a 2 hit tp return (IE only the first hit of the main and offhand were guaranteed to hit. The extra *** charged swings were missing without accuracy from other sources). It's easy to understand how the confusion came about, but the extra accuracy only affects standard melee rounds, not weaponskill rounds. Since most thieves stack *** charge with a weaponskill the extra merits are actually very beneficial if you're fighting HNM.

With that said, I don't know how I would tweak my merits. This is clearly an improvement to my old setup though so no matter what it's a win. I used to go 5/5 feint 5/5 *** charge, but now that 1 point in each gives the same as 5 under the old system, I would definitely unlock and upgrade aura steal. My personal opinion of TH is that it's really hard to tell the difference between higher tiers, but I like the idea of 5 aura and a mix between *** charge and feint. Maybe 5 aura and 2/3 mix of the others (ambush is still crap in my book and always will be. Positioning requirements be damned). 5/5 feint is viable too. It's impossible to say any of those combos are bad. Also

Quote:

Looks like SE wants us to have 5/5 feint again. I wonder how it will work with multiple thfs attacking at once. Like will each thf have a 100% chance to increase TH once? Will all SA+TAs that hit durring feint increase TH? Maybe it only works for the THF that used the JA idk.

The wording is ambiguous, but I'm pretty sure the bonus only applies to the swing that lands feint. There's no way in **** s-e would allow us to increase TH potency with every melee swing we land for 30 seconds. Rather I see it as a 100% chance to raise TH by a tier once every 2 minutes. S-E is **** bent on preserving balance and there's no way their conservative minds would ever consider TH 50+++ every 2 minutes "balanced". You know them just as well as I do. I'm sure it's just ambiguous translating. There is a 99.99% chance the bonus applies only to the swing that lands feint.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2012 11:53pm by Melphina

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[ffxisig]56619[/ffxisig]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

I remember those past discussions, and I know what side I was on since I know I landed a 11% tp return while flashed when I was meriting in sea. But I do think there was evidence for what Melphina is describing, not sure how I got what I did if that is the case, I mean the chance of landing 2 of 3 attacks while flashed is incredibly small, since a non-stacked DE has a solid chance to miss completely while flashed.

I don't have much more to say on this discussion for now, but Fynlar brought up a good point on the general board thread regarding my idea about th increases.

Fynlar wrote

Quote:

Quote: That's not how I read it, to be honest... I read it more like "if your normal hit has a 2% chance to raise TH, with 5/5 Feint active it will be doubled to 4%"

2 mins for a guaranteed TH proc would just encourage mob holding.

Rather than respond to it again I'll just quote myself

Quote:

You know I hadn't thought of it that way. Their wording here is ambiguous, but that would make sense too. I suppose we'll have to wait and see. "Additional merit points will no longer reduce recast time, but instead raise the chance of Treasure Hunter leveling up by 25% per point. " can be taken several different ways. They don't really tell you by 25% of what baseline, or even if it's a one time bonus or an effect that lasts the entire duration of feint's effect >..<. I like the concept though. Hopefully the implementation isn't screwed up.

Ambiguous wording is ambiguous. There's too much room for interpretation for me to speak any further on the matter.

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[ffxisig]56619[/ffxisig]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Looking forward to these changes. I've always been a big fan of Aura Steal, and without putting too much thought/math into things it seems that 5/5 Feint 1/5 Assassin's Charge and 4/5 Aura Steal is probably the default, provided the proposed changes go through as stated. Good to get solid upgrades.

Melphina: I hadn't had a chance to respond at the time, but that is how I viewed the increase too. It wouldn't be making it 100% proc, but it would make it double your regular chance to proc while active. The other option is, it does infact give you 100% chance to proc, but only does it 1 time. I think the first one is much more likely though, due to the mob holding comment above.

Would quote ya, but conserving space. Thanks for the reply. It was a few years ago that I ultimately stopped playing, so it makes sense that this was pinned down further after my departure. I thought it was MH/OH guaranteed, so I'm glad to hear that confirmation. I was aware that all the extra attacks (whether they be multi-hit WSs or Double/Triple Attack derived) were not 100% accuracy.

I am really behind SE on all the merit changes for all the jobs. The timers set means you finally have a viable choice and let you customize instead of cookie cutter. Kudos to SE on that one. 1AC, 1AS, 1Feint. 7 wherever the **** you want. I like it.

Still the nuts and bolts to determine the exact effects and how they work, like does the AC 25% acc work like sushi? or does it just add a flat 25% on merits 2-5 making acc 100% at 5/5? That is kinda tempting for the twash/mandau owners since acc is never in those sets due to the sheer power of stats. But the simple fact that it may actually be viable to have points in ambush again alone shows how much they have opened the field up.