@taerkitty wrote:Now, would it be possible to 'download' some sort of compensation to this? Kind of like an "I know Kung-Fu" sort of thing?

(Just say the word if you mind us threadjacking this thread, Alfisti!)

As in dealing with Raych's lack of social mores? Honestly, I think it really depends on how you view the universe.

Personally, I've always come down solidly on the "no" end of the argument though, to be honest, I think the major reason for that is that it just makes things too easy story wise.

If I were going to pick in-universe reasoning though...

Yes, I'm aware the Gen02 girls come with an encyclopaedic knowledge of firearms and the like, so feasibly it would be possible to give them some sort of socialising "how to", however we don't know exactly how much effort is required to imprint each piece of information, so if it's difficult, it might not be worth the cost and effort to implement. A knowledge of weaponry is useful to every cyborg, but not all the girls need to be a Petra, Kara or Monty. Moreover, most seem to have reasonable social ability anyway, so it probably wouldn't be worth it for the few cases like Raych.

Perhaps more pertinently though: it's one thing to give the knowledge, but quite another to implement it. You can give someone all the theory in the world, but that doesn't mean they can implement it, otherwise the girls wouldn't bother training with firearms. How one interacts socially is also dictated hugely by personality, and I just don't think Raych has the personality, attitude or self confidence to put some sort of "social primer" to work for her, and no: I don't see personality as something which can be changed at the scientists' whim either. Suppressed yes, but purposely targeted and changed, no... though again that may be more a result of my own preferences for story telling.

@Alfisti wrote:I don't see personality as something which can be changed at the scientists' whim either. Suppressed yes, but purposely targeted and changed, no... though again that may be more a result of my own preferences for story telling.

For Pactio, I assumed the scientists did modify the girls "Big Five" personality traits, emphasizing the "Conscientiousness" factor and minimizing the "Neuroticism" factor and aiming for ambiversion in terms of the other three ("Openness to Experience", "Agreeableness" and "Extraversion") unless their handler desires different "settings".

I dunno, I guess I've just never really held with the idea of being able to "spec." a person, and like the idea of having to work with what you get, make allowances and deal with the compromises. Sometimes that goes okay, usually it can be managed... sometimes it's a disaster and sometimes, just sometimes, it creates something amazing.

As before though, I think part of that is just where I like to leave room in my story telling. Plus it makes the SWA's life more difficult trying to find cyborg "recruits" (something I touched on and intend to elaborate on a bit), giving them one more factor to consider.

That said, I guess there's also plenty of avenues to be explored for a handler who might "spec." a girl to what he thinks will be perfect, only to discover that's not really the case. Hmm...

@Alfisti wrote:That said, I guess there's also plenty of avenues to be explored for a handler who might "spec." a girl to what he thinks will be perfect, only to discover that's not really the case. Hmm...

This idea did have some influence on my thinking. Perhaps Jose asked for "a devoted little sister" to replace Enrica, but Henrietta turned out to not only be devoted, but infatuated. And perhaps Rico was the way she was because Jean wanted an obedient junior.

That being said, I didn't go into any detail about how it was done or how much they could "tweak the knobs" per se as to deliberately leave it ambiguous.

In the manga, Belisario says to Sandro that the 'donor's' personality tends to come through the conditioning process more or less intact - then again, he also said that it's easy to permanently remove a memory from a person's brain. He always did strike me as the sort of person who talks out his arse with complete confidence. That said, if they can fill a second-gen cyborg's head with book knowledge about guns that she can recite on command, yet have to spend hours with her on the range teaching her to shoot, we have some idea of the limits of the'speccing' process.

Unfortunately, what Belisario says about erasing memories is hard core - 14V through the hypothamlus would be like taking your 2 TB hard drive and throwing it out a 5 story window. You'd be lucky to remember anything after that.

But there are other areas of memory within the brain and some of those construct a cyborg's persona.

@ElfenMagix wrote:Unfortunately, what Belisario says about erasing memories is hard core - 14V through the hypothamlus would be like taking your 2 TB hard drive and throwing it out a 5 story window. You'd be lucky to remember anything after that.

But there are other areas of memory within the brain and some of those construct a cyborg's persona.

I'm aware that electrical current, along with any number of other traumatic intrusions, can wipe memories from the brain. I reserve my skepticism for Belisario's assertion that he can pick which memories to wipe and which to leave intact. As you said, Elfen, memory - even a specific memory - may reside in more than one spot on the brain, and may be triggered by any of a number of stimuli. I just don't think you can edit a person's mind like a page of print in Word.

...a decent picture of Mary Christmas, nee Vanessa Lye, nee whatever she's introduced as next she crosses paths with Jethro+Monty. Not a great picture of the woman herself, if I'm honest, but it probably helps put her in her natural environment and give her a bit of context (I hope). I picture Mary as being, shall we say, something more of a blunt instrument than J+M and, unlike that pair, her gear tends to be more specialised and tailored to her current mission, rather than a flexible, off-the-shelf compromise. She's more militaristic, less stylish, and really is the pointy end of a very long stick, supported by a large team of people.

"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

- President John F. Kennedy

Il Direttore

Forum Posts : 1003

Location : Chicago, Illinois, United States

Fan of : Henrietta, Triela

Original Characters : Lieutenant James Spettro/Caterina

Comments : In yon strait path a thousand may well be stopped by three. Now who will stand on either hand, and keep the bridge with me?’ -Horatius

Interesting work. Do I detect a Panasonic Toughbook there? What's the model of the bike that you referenced?

Indeed those exposed parts... I selected the bike for her (for the record: a 2014 model BMW R1200GS Adventure... with a few extra options on: enlarged bash plate, panniers, load rack rather than a pillion seat, wind deflectors) because it seemed a good fit. Only after I started drawing did I realise how bloody complicated it was. I'll stick to cars, they at least generally have the good sense to put body panels on.

And yes, that is a Toughbook. Mary's gear tends toward being a bit more "mil-spec" as it were, than J+M's, so a Toughbook seemed more up her alley than a Macbook. That and, insofar as I can tell, the Toughbooks seem to be a) not particularly powerful and b) have small-ish screens, making them difficult to work on for extended periods. Since Mary does less of her own analysis work than, say, Monty though, it seemed appropriate to her, and an appropriate way to hint at how she operates.

Anecdote: My experience with PTBs is that they have monstrously powerful backlights, hold up to what they're advertised for, and tend to be good for dropping data into a spreadsheet or something. It's also worth noting that they tend to be about a generation or two behind on the hardware and compatible OS.

"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

- President John F. Kennedy

Il Direttore

Forum Posts : 1003

Location : Chicago, Illinois, United States

Fan of : Henrietta, Triela

Original Characters : Lieutenant James Spettro/Caterina

Comments : In yon strait path a thousand may well be stopped by three. Now who will stand on either hand, and keep the bridge with me?’ -Horatius

Really awesome work on that picture of Mary, Alfi! Yeah, I can see how drawing that motorcycle can be a complete pain in the ass, but it came out especially well for the amount of pain you had to endure. Very impressive. Can't blame you for not ever wanting to draw a motorcycle ever again, though.

Back to Mary/Vanessa, it makes me wonder just what it is she's doing in a desert in the middle of nowhere with all of that gear. From what I've seen of her in the comic and in AtAC she's a fairly enigmatic creature so I'm happy for the peek into just what she is and how she works, and how she compares to Monty. Or, more to the point, I want to know just what goals she has and how her work with SIS clashes with what Jethro and Monty (and the SWA in general) are trying to achieve.

@TeaTimeNinja wrote:I'm obligated to say that someone in your J+M comic needs a crotch rocket. sadly, I feel like you're 200% done with drawing bikes. The plastic bits cover all of the hard to draw bits, though.

Sorry if that was off topic, I'm just jumping in.

Getting off topic? Don't worry, you'll fit right in around here.

Someone with a fast bike... well I'm afraid it won't be Jethro, as discussing two wheeled transportation, in all it's varieties, is probably one of the very few times I would apply the word "hate" to describe Monty's view on something. She understands academically of course that people seem to like the idea, but for the life of her can't understand why anyone would willing subject themselves to that, particularly when there are perfectly capable cars to get around in. Not to mention the added exposure to harm a bike presents, so there's no way Jethro is being allowed to have one.

Fortunately for her, aside from a quick bout in Cyprus, she's so far avoided having to ride a bike or scooter... though I do occasionally have ideas on putting her in a side-car for some sort of mad Indiana Jones/Tintin-esque chase.

Danilo's probably out too, but only because he's not that exciting. That said, Michele and Elio have both made appearances and, I believe, both have bikes (Aprilia and Ducatti respectively, from memory?) of some description or another.

@PSVT wrote:Back to Mary/Vanessa, it makes me wonder just what it is she's doing in a desert in the middle of nowhere with all of that gear. From what I've seen of her in the comic and in AtAC she's a fairly enigmatic creature so I'm happy for the peek into just what she is and how she works, and how she compares to Monty. Or, more to the point, I want to know just what goals she has and how her work with SIS clashes with what Jethro and Monty (and the SWA in general) are trying to achieve.

Without wanting to give too much away, I'm intending to give Mary a bigger role in J+M's next story and, to be honest, her appearance in AtAC was mostly just to remind people she still existed. As to her goals, well that's for later reading, except to say that I don't really picture her as a "good guy" or "bad guy" per-se... more like "the other guy". Sometimes her interests will align with J+M's, and sometimes they won't... read that as you will.

@Alfisti wrote:She understands academically of course that people seem to like the idea, but for the life of her can't understand why anyone would willing subject themselves to that, particularly when there are perfectly capable cars to get around in.

Well, the point of these was to focus on the faces, so running white clothing on a white background was an easy way to get some idea of proportion head-to-body wise, without drawing too much attention there (or having to put in much effort ).

Just saw the Mary Christmas pic. It's beautifully rendered, Alf, and puts me in mind of some of your earliest pics (Jess walking down the twilit street comes to mind). Great detail work on the bike and background, and Mary doesn't look too shabby either, and well tricked out, though I liked her packaging better in the comic.

Jethro's pic is on a par with Monty's, done in your usual minimalist style. I can imagine both of them hanging over a mantel somewhere.

Comments : .
Mario Bossi would make a better handler than Marco Toni. Come to think of it, so would Christiano.
.
Elizaveta didn't jump - she was pushed.
.
Sofia was pregnant. It would have been a boy.

The white-on-white does provide an interesting effect of drawing maximum attention to Jethro's facial features, as the rest of him does seem to blend into the background (especially when I was looking at your picture on my laptop and it's crappy TN panel). But, yeah, little details such as the furrows on his brow and the bridge of his nose and sides of his eyes are very easy to see. Seems to give a good sense of Jethro's age despite the slightly mischievous smile he's sporting. Anyway, great job overall.

@PSVT wrote:But, yeah, little details such as the furrows on his brow and the bridge of his nose and sides of his eyes are very easy to see. Seems to give a good sense of Jethro's age despite the slightly mischievous smile he's sporting. Anyway, great job overall.

Cheers mate.

Yeah, I tend to envisage Jethro as starting to show a few signs of wear and tear, despite not being particularly old or, to put it another way: a good looking bloke, albeit one who has been punched in the face a couple of times throughout his life. Somewhere between suave and rugged perhaps, with an impish sense of humour.

So, early August marked 5 years of Jethro+Monty (well, that's when their thread was first created, so I'm calling it that). I was hoping to have this done in time for that, but the Mary pic took longer than expected, so I'll take being within the month.

Either way, since I'm currently working up their next story, this seemed appropriate.

Last edited by Alfisti on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 5:14; edited 2 times in total

My mind cannot even conceive of how much that rocks my socks. The Alfa (or whatever) in the foreground is so detailed, the insanely awesome background with a slight haze. And then there's Jethro and Monty, of course, all like "Way to ruin the moment..."

Holy crap, man. way to raise the bar. Seriously, you're making the rest of us look bad!

Comments : .
Mario Bossi would make a better handler than Marco Toni. Come to think of it, so would Christiano.
.
Elizaveta didn't jump - she was pushed.
.
Sofia was pregnant. It would have been a boy.

Love this one a lot. As always you have a wonderful way with the use of colors, and I really like the overall warmth of the picture. I definitely like how the bright red of the car (Alfa GTV6 I assume) and dark blue of the man's jacket stands out against the more muted blues and greens of the background. Really beautiful overall. Though, I don't envy the person who has to interrupt Monty when she's enjoying such a moment with Jethro.

Congratulations on five years of Jethro + Monty, and I definitely will check out whatever new story you write. You've more than proven your talent in both drawing and writing.

PSVT

Forum Posts : 520

Location : Pennsylvania, United States

Fan of : Triela, Claes

Original Characters : Giancarlo Rossi and his cyborgs Valentina R. and Eleonora R.; James Bernard and his cyborg Rachelle

Comments : Working on an actual story now, so please be patient... ^_^;

@ElfenMagix wrote:I love this one! The effects of the background and perspective with the foreground makes this happening. And We've been there before!

Cheers Elfen...

@Thescarredman wrote:Beauteous, Alf, one of your best J+M pics. You're a very talented bloke, and we're all very lucky to have you with us.

The pencil sketch of them arguing over a roadmap is still my fave, though.

Cheers TSM... I'm still quite fond of that sketch as well. Perhaps not so much of the quality of the illustration work, but certainly of the situation.

@TeaTimeNinja wrote:My mind cannot even conceive of how much that rocks my socks. The Alfa (or whatever) in the foreground is so detailed, the insanely awesome background with a slight haze. And then there's Jethro and Monty, of course, all like "Way to ruin the moment..."

It is indeed an Alfa. As to the details, well, I'm fortunate enough to have an easily accessible reference.

In terms of the background haziness... there's a couple of reasons for that. One is because, as PSVT noted below, it helps the foreground characters "pop" but still gives a bright picture. It's also because I tend to limit my colour pallet. That's again a way to help give a sense of distance, but it's also, frankly, a way of speeding up the process. By limiting the pallet, you're essentially left just painting light and shadow, and you'll note that all the shadow is the same shadow and all the light is the same light... it's just the mid-range colours that change.

@PSVT wrote:Love this one a lot. As always you have a wonderful way with the use of colors, and I really like the overall warmth of the picture. I definitely like how the bright red of the car (Alfa GTV6 I assume) and dark blue of the man's jacket stands out against the more muted blues and greens of the background. Really beautiful overall. Though, I don't envy the person who has to interrupt Monty when she's enjoying such a moment with Jethro.

Cheers mate. It is indeed a GTV, though not the 6 (no bonnet bulge), instead with the carburreted four.

As to J+M... I think they were working anyway: they're not the types to lug big telephoto lenses like that around for fun. That said, no, Monty is not going to be happy about being interrupted, for a plethora of reasons.

I am blown away man! You drew them both so perfectly! This is exactly what I see in my mind before I start drawing them. Literally perfect, Alf. You made my day, heck... you probably just made my week.

It makes me so happy to see my own creations brought to new life by another artist, especially one as talented as you. Thank you.

ps: this is my new desktop/phone wallpaper, and probably will be forever.

Comments : .
Mario Bossi would make a better handler than Marco Toni. Come to think of it, so would Christiano.
.
Elizaveta didn't jump - she was pushed.
.
Sofia was pregnant. It would have been a boy.

@TeaTimeNinja wrote:I am blown away man! You drew them both so perfectly! This is exactly what I see in my mind before I start drawing them. Literally perfect, Alf. You made my day, heck... you probably just made my week.

Cheers mate. I was a little concerned over how the modifications to Elly's outfit were going to go down, seeing as it's somewhat less sleek than what you've been depicting with the comic, so I'm glad it meets your approval.

@taerkitty wrote:Oh, the "You're Needed" img link is broken. The link to the dA page works just fine.

An excellent job on such a beautiful picture of the pair. And I agree with TSM Taerkitty (Edit: Thanks, Alfi! Though, I do also agree with TSM about Elly exuding attitude.) that Elly's eyes really sell the pic and tell us everything we need to know about her attitude.

Last edited by PSVT on Tue 30 Sep 2014 - 18:12; edited 1 time in total

PSVT

Forum Posts : 520

Location : Pennsylvania, United States

Fan of : Triela, Claes

Original Characters : Giancarlo Rossi and his cyborgs Valentina R. and Eleonora R.; James Bernard and his cyborg Rachelle

Comments : Working on an actual story now, so please be patient... ^_^;

@PSVT wrote:An excellent job on such a beautiful picture of the pair. And I agree with TSM that Elly's eyes really sell the pic and tell us everything we need to know about her attitude.

I think that was Taer talking about the eyes?

And cheers mate.

@TeaTimeNinja wrote:I showed the drawing to my sister, who also draws off and on, and she thought it looked fantastic. I also told her to check out the J+M comic, even though it might not be down her ally.

I've been in a good mood the past two days just knowing that this drawing exists.

I made someone happy? Obviously I need to stop putting sugar in my coffee so I can maintain my sour disposition.

Glad your sister liked it too. I'll be curious to know if she takes to the comic or not... though I fully understand it's not going to be to everyone's tastes.

Last edited by Alfisti on Thu 2 Oct 2014 - 2:55; edited 1 time in total

My sister is really into different cultures and customs and languages. She's lived on every corner of the globe practically. I think she would enjoy J+M because you really did your research.

She didn't like the Gunslinger Girl series, but your comic takes out most of what she didn't like. ie. so much killing, mindless little girls murdering everything... All that's left is intriguing characters and a compelling story.

@taerkitty wrote:I showed the drawing to my sister, who also draws off and on, and she thought it looked fantastic. I also told her to check out the J+M comic, even though it might not be down her ally.

I've been in a good mood the past two days just knowing that this drawing exists.

Glad your sister liked it too. I'll be curious to know if she takes to the comic or not... though I fully understand it's not going to be to everyone's tastes.

However, TTN was talking about his sister. Or was that another clever plan to get responses?

Comments : .
Mario Bossi would make a better handler than Marco Toni. Come to think of it, so would Christiano.
.
Elizaveta didn't jump - she was pushed.
.
Sofia was pregnant. It would have been a boy.

@taerkitty wrote:I showed the drawing to my sister, who also draws off and on, and she thought it looked fantastic. I also told her to check out the J+M comic, even though it might not be down her ally.

I've been in a good mood the past two days just knowing that this drawing exists.

Glad your sister liked it too. I'll be curious to know if she takes to the comic or not... though I fully understand it's not going to be to everyone's tastes.

However, TTN was talking about his sister. Or was that another clever plan to get responses?

Monty doesn't get a whole lot of time to drill with firearms, and what time she does get tends to be utilised ensuring she remains up to scratch on her PPK. Some weapons, however, she encounters more regularly than others on her travels, and is thus more familiar with. I imagine the AK family is one of those.

Monty looks really awesome there, and yes I can see her being awfully familiar with the Kalishnikov rifles with how ubiquitous they are. That rifle is actually a bit large relative to her, but it just goes to show how much of a beanpole she is.

@PSVT wrote:Monty looks really awesome there, and yes I can see her being awfully familiar with the Kalishnikov rifles with how ubiquitous they are. That rifle is actually a bit large relative to her, but it just goes to show how much of a beanpole she is.

Well, that and MP40s, depending on what time period I'm channelling at the time.

As to the rifle: I did err toward large, but it should be pretty close. Monty's 5'4" and the wood stock AK (if we believe wikipedia) is an inch short of 3', so just a little more than half her height. When I scaled it against her it goes from the arch of her left (her left, viewer's right) to the top of the lowest black line on her dress.

Yeah, I find drawing wood is always something of a hit and miss affair to be honest... sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

@taerKitty wrote:Stunning work as usual. By the by, what does the Cyrillic say in the background?

According to Google Translate it should say "launch". I was originally going for "Launch Site", but it was too long, and Chinese or Korean looked like more effort than I was willing to expend this time around.

@Alfisti wrote:As to the rifle: I did err toward large, but it should be pretty close. Monty's 5'4" and the wood stock AK (if we believe wikipedia) is an inch short of 3', so just a little more than half her height. When I scaled it against her it goes from the arch of her left (her left, viewer's right) to the top of the lowest black line on her dress.

'course it's always possible my scaling is off as well.

I think your scaling is fine. The AK is a pretty large weapon, especially with a fixed stock. Granted, sniper rifles are larger still, but I have this feeling Monty's not going to be sitting behind a scope anytime soon (but spotting...?). So, I guess it makes sense for Monty to use the PPK.

@PSVT wrote:...but I have this feeling Monty's not going to be sitting behind a scope anytime soon (but spotting...?).

No, sniping most definitely is not one of Monty's greater skills. I would say that, firearms wise, it's likely her weakest suit... and Jethro probably has a vague idea that the knobs on a sniper scope do something, but beyond that things are going to be a tad hit-and-miss for him.

Actually, the more I think about it the more I suspect that, unless there was absolutely no option, Monty (and her handler) would rather walk away rather than attempt to turn her (or his) hand to sniper work, she has a far better chance of success coming back later on her own terms. While her fratello often needs to hurry in order to intercept information, actually acting upon the end result of that once the pieces are in place is often something they can take their time with (and, if a couple more innocents die as a result of taking the time to set things up properly, then Monty's not going to be shedding any tears. She's playing a bigger game... though I suspect she might be a bit miffed if people died as a result of her rushing and not doing things properly). For that matter if sniping was the only way to complete a job, but if the job were minor enough, J+M would probably still consider walking away and throwing the thing entirely a better option than somehow acquiring a rifle, then taking pot shots with it...

...or (given sufficient time/impetus) Michele receives a phone call quietly instructing him to put in for leave and pack his cyborg. Monty might not like Kara much, and consider her a liability, but she is at least a known quantity of liability, and Michele knows how to play by Moscow Rules. Actually, come to think of it, if they played their cards right J+M could probably completely avoid making direct contact with any fratello sent out to, say, actually execute a hit anyway. Either information transfer could be handled through the SWA itself, or they could act essentially as spy controllers through dead-drops etc. Hell, for all the dispatched fratello knew, they could be operating on behalf of AISE... and now I'm getting sidetracked.

Two SIS station heads from Jethro+Monty's current tale. On the left is Jethro's former mentor at the SIS, friend and current Central American Station head: Sir Algernon Herbert. On the right, his contemporary at Her Majesty's Far East Station: Charles Wilkes.