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This may seem like a weird question, but the thought occurred to me earlier and I thought I'd ask. I'm not talking about subliminal CD's or "self hypnosis" CD's that you can get on ebay or whatever (such things strike me as being of very dubious value). But I'm just wondering if working with a real hypnotist would possibly lead to improved playing or better practice. I could imagine a hypnotist helping you train your body to relax, or to increase your concentration when you sit down at the piano, or to give you more confidence when you play in front of others, maybe improve sight reading, etc...

I'm just curious if anyone has tried anything like that. And if so, did you find benefit from it?

To me, hypnosis is a useless art. That is because it doesn't work (mostly). I think it would be more advantageous to work on technique (not necessarily meaning your pianistic technique, but perhaps your practicing routine/technique), than to practice hypnotizing yourself. One seems to be oriented in working towards your ultimate goal, while the other seems to be a "quick fix so you don't have to do the work" approach.

I don't mean to say that's what you're attempting, but that is certainly the way it sounds. It's like people who try to hypnotize themselves into eating less so they can lose weight. You don't need hypnosis. Just eat less. Accomplishes the same thing without wasting your money on hypnosis.

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Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

I slept with my head on a piano book to test osmosis once. In the end, I learned nothing and just drooled all over the book.

Quote:

helping you train your body to relax, or to increase your concentration when you sit down at the piano, or to give you more confidence when you play in front of others, maybe improve sight reading, etc...

I've found this all really just comes with time, practice, and familiarity.

I can relax because I'm familiar with the piece and the piano. I'm familiar with the piece and piano because I practiced it, and many like it. I practiced these pieces because I've been learning this thing for a relatively long time. etc...

There is no magic potion or hypnosis that can replace what good ol' practice can do.

Learning and practicing piano is really a long term endeavor.

Look deeply into my eyes, and start practicing every day, with a 5 year goal of completely surprising folks you know with mad piano skills you learned while they weren't paying attention.

Well, let's examine the question. Let's pretend it's ultimately for assisting in a performance of a piece of music. First of all, what factors go into how the performance turns out?

1)Presence of nervousness and the degree (this could include, but not be limited to, experience in performing as well)2)Interpretation of a piece of music3)How that piece of music was practiced, broken down, and memorized

With this understanding in mind,

1)Hypnosis in theory could feasibly help with nervousness possibly directly through maybe helping you relax both physically and mentally or indirectly by helping you stick to (but not develop) better - possibly more public - practice regimens.2)An interpretation of a piece of music and how you thus think it should be presented/performed is your own unique conception. It is thus unlikely that hypnosis or hypnotherapy (which is designed to help induce changes of behavior or habits) will do anything to enhance this. Could you "hypnotize" - in the cliched sense of the term - yourself to better like aspects of certain other interpretations? Perhaps, but this isn't the question. Just listen to more music and a wider variety of interpretations for this result.3)Number three is interesting. Will hypnotherapy give you better practice methods? Not directly, no. If hypnotherapy could enhance your ability to focus (this is all conjecture), then it could help your practice methods indirectly. Your time is better off spent learning how to improve these practice methods and how to integrate them into your specific lifestyle and time constraints rather than look elsewhere for results. If you've already developed a professional technique and mastered a mountain of impressive repertoire and seek the assistance of hypnosis to calm yourself in performance, then that's one thing, but there's really nothing other than high-quality practicing and high-quality devotion that will yield results.

You bring up an interesting question, but what it ultimately all comes down to is discipline - whether it's to always strive to try something new and better or to just stick to a time-tested routine you've already had success with.

edit: oh, and the sight-reading doesn't make sense. Hypnosis isn't going to teach your brain things it doesn't already know like how to digest and translate into fingerings and an interpretation a large mass of musical notes on a page you've never seen before - only being taught how to practice and overcome various difficulties and then a heck of a lot of practicing.

I don't know if this classified as hypnosis but before my grade 6 exam, for the fun of it, I went to YouTube and watch this entire "self hypnosis" clip that basically just shows text like you will do well, you will succeed, over and over again. Anyway I got an A for that exam. The next exam I didn't do that and I got a B+. Before a yearly recital, I was looking at piano fail videos, chucking a good laugh, and during the recital I completely stuffed up and made a fool out of myself that I could have fittingly appear in the fail videos myself. I don't know whether this is all just a coincidence but perhaps it may affect your confidence at the very least.

Edit- ok just read the original post properly so ignore my rambling. I never had experience with a proper hypnotist before.

Steve G. Jones, M.Ed., Clinical Hypnotherapist, charges $1,500 for a custom recording and $25,000 for a one-hour private hypnotherapy session at his office. but you can get all the benefits for this low price.

Ouch... $25,000 for a 1 hour private session! Imagine how many years of lessons you could get for that

On a more positive note, there's not much difference between self-hypnosis and one done by a therapist. Both aim to relax you and instill positive mental images and behavioural suggestions. It is worth an honest try, to supplement or assist in learning; but I highly doubt that its a quick path to mastery.

We spend all day suggesting things to ourselves in that incessant mental verbiage. Just think of what you tell yourself when you practice and make mistakes... some make no big deal out of it, others will call themselves by all sorts of names. Reminds me of a phrase I read in Kenny Werner's book: "if you think your instrument is hard, then it will be"; or Henry Ford: "Wether you think you're right or wether you think you're wrong, you're rignt". Its all self-suggestion or handed down by people one has faith in.

Oh, I never thought that it would be a quick path to mastery, or even a shortcut. I don't even know if it has any value at all. I was just curious if anyone had explored it before. I know sometimes I sit down to practice and everything just clicks. My fingers do exactly what I want when I want. Other days I sit down and it's like someone secretly replaced my 8 fingers with thumbs or something. I wonder if hypnosis would help me have more days like the former and fewer days like that latter.

The most useful hypnotic suggestion might just be to practice more. "The piano is love ... go the piano ... the bench is your safe place ... the keys are your friends, you want to greet them every day ... play ... play ... play ... practice is good ... the piano is love ..."

Seriously, I believe that anything that helps us relax and focus more effectively at the piano is worth exploring, and certainly hypnosis can be a tool in reducing performance anxiety, etc. But the real key to becoming a better player/performance is thoughtful, focused practice. Not that I'm any expert ... I'm the world's worst at not putting in enough time on the bench. *sigh*

Oh, I never thought that it would be a quick path to mastery, or even a shortcut. I don't even know if it has any value at all. I was just curious if anyone had explored it before. I know sometimes I sit down to practice and everything just clicks. My fingers do exactly what I want when I want. Other days I sit down and it's like someone secretly replaced my 8 fingers with thumbs or something. I wonder if hypnosis would help me have more days like the former and fewer days like that latter.

I have the same problem with "on" and "off" days. If you ever find the solution, I'll give you 10 thumbs up.

Hi Piano_deb. Small world, I'm from Memphis too Yes, I agree that nothing can replace focused, thoughtful practice. I just wonder if maybe hypnosis could help make more of our practice be that way. I also think your idea of using hypnosis to want to practice more is interesting. Some days it really does feel like a chore to make time for the piano (yet oddly once I'm there it doesn't feel like a chore any more . Though one of the reasons I said I wondered about a real hypnotist (as opposed to self hypnosis cd's) is that a real hypnotist could customize your sessions to work on specific things whereas a CD is more cookie cutter (and I don't know if those CD's actually hypnotize you or not...they seem more like they would be guided visualization than hypnosis to me). Anyway, if I ever do figure out the solution to off days I'll be sure to drop you a line.

I have no experience with hypnosis, but as a few others have said, I've gotten a lot of benefit from meditation (Kenny Werner's book can be a great help with focus and relaxation).

My guess is that self-hypnosis might actually be more effective than a pricey hypnotist. There are similarities to meditation, in that you want to condition yourself to have the automatic reactions you want (relaxation and concentration) rather than the reactions you don't want (tension, anxiety). The thing is, this takes consistent practice--which could run into a lot of money if you're paying someone else to do it.

I did use hypnosis many years ago to deal with a very stressful time in my life and to get over my fear of flying. I used a local hypnotherapist and the price for one session was about equivalent to what I pay for a one hour private lesson. I had great results. She recorded the session and gave you the recording to use at home so I only went about 3 times. I have thought of using it for performance anxiety since I have always struggled with that. I have no problem putting in the practice time. I love the piano and regularly practice between 2 and 3 hours a day. However, is frustrating when I can play a piece fine at home and then sometimes even in my lesson become nervous. Of course playing in a recital is much worse. I often practice at the studio where I take lessons for part of the time so my teacher hears me and I play fine when I don't know he's listening. He often jokes about doing my lesson from the hall. If I decide to have a couple of sessions to try to deal with the performance anxiety, I'll let you know how it turns out. However, I think results will vary according to the person and the therapist. For hypnosis to work well, you have to trust the therapist and the more you are able to concentrate and focus the more effective it will be. Zillybug

rada, That's a pretty unfair assumption, and as the OP of this question I can't help but think that your comments are directed at least in part towards me. I also think you're completely wrong in principle. Of course if you never practice (you're right, some people find any excuse not to practice), you'll never get better. As I said in another post, thoughtful, focused practice is essential to learning, there's no substitute for it.

But, Practicing without thinking is a good way to never grow as an artist. I may still be a beginner, but I practice a lot. I'm working my rear end off to get better. I even get up at 4:30 a.m. every morning to make sure that I have time to get a minimum of 1.5 hours of practice in every day. Some days that's a real chore, but I do it because I've fallen in love with making music and I know that consistent daily practice is the best way to get good at it.

But I don't just practice mindlessly. I evaluate how effective my practice is (that's why I get up so early, from my practice experiments I was able to determine that I do a lot better when I'm practicing early). I also have martial arts practice most nights which takes away time from my evenings. So I got a second keyboard for my office so that I could spend time practicing piano during my breaks at work.

So yes, I sometimes spend time trying to find out about what other players do so that I can learn from their discoveries and make my practice time more effective and more efficient or even more fun. Or sometimes I spend time trying to find better ways to do the things I'm doing. Now I will admit that the hypnosis thing is way out of the box, but that's exactly why I thought it would be fun to ask about it here. And knows, maybe someone has found it a useful too and is willing to share. I'm not sure why people assumed I was looking for some kind of easy fix or shortcut. But whatever.

And by the way, Losing weight is not as simple as "getting in there and doing it" either. If it were, a lot fewer people would struggle with weight. A huge majority of dieters lose weight only to gain back more than they started with. There are lots of reasons why that's true, but the point is that there's more to losing weight than simply dieting. Effective lifestyle change requires thought and planning as well as effort and discipline. It is possible to work hard AND think about things. Personally I often find it a useful combination.

Zillybug, That's very interesting. I'm glad that hypnosis was able to help you with your fear of flying. That's pretty cool. If you do try hypnosis for your piano anxiety and find it efficacious, I'd be very interested to know about it. In my wonderings about hypnosis, my thoughts were that it would possibly mainly be good for relaxation and focus. Did you find the recordings of the session were actually able to put you in the hypnotic state the same as the in person hypnotist? It may be silly, but sometimes I imagine people watching me practice. I think it helps me get used to the idea of playing in front of others.

The recordings do help and with practice you can get into the same state. Actually, a very small percentage of people go into very deep hypnosis like you see in shows. Most of us only go into a state of deep relaxation that is similar to meditation but that can still be quite effective. The therapist told me to use the recordings every day for about 6 to 8 weeks for it to get the best results. The same therapist also led meditation groups that I joined. She taught different forms of meditation but started with a guided one since that is the easiest. I have always believed in the mind body connection and my experience in that group really reinforced it. i was having a great deal of difficulty with asthma the first night and thought I would have to leave as to not disturb the group. After she started the guided meditation, I stopped wheezing and coughing within about 5 minutes. I am thinking about going for a session for performance anxiety as I am tired of feeling scared every time I perform.

I'm very interested in mind-body connection and in the power of the mind, not in some New Age or spiritual sort of way but as a physiological phenomenon. I really think that if we could train our mind the right way, we could do almost anything and feel good all the time, no matter what happens to us. I struggle a lot with bad temper and bad attitudes and I envy people who are always content and peaceful. It has something to do with genetics but one can definitely train oneself and replace bad habits with good habits. Piano playing is one of these mind-body activities that require lots of focus and relaxation, so meditation, autogenic training and things like that should be extremely beneficial.

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Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BWMartha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

It is possible to work hard AND think about things. Personally I often find it a useful combination.

+1

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Zillybug, your experiences with therapy/meditation sound really interesting. I would expect that utilizing similar processes could help you deal with performance anxiety. And, of course, there's all the standard advice: develop a performance routine for approaching the bench and beginning a piece, and follow it every time ... Play at least a little bit for every possible listener including family, visiting friends, the mailman, the cable guy ... Picture the audience naked ...

Oh, no! Not that last one!

Why in the world do people say to picture one's audience naked? That's disturbing. I'm all for nakedness of the right person at the right time, but a roomful of strangers (or, worse, friends and family)?? Heaven forfend!

Hi Piano Deb, Thanks for the suggestions. I do try to play for others as often as I can. At this point, that does not make me too nervous. it's when it is a more formal setting like a recital. The funny thing is I only have performance anxiety related to the piano. i speak and do trainings quite often for work and a s a child danced on stage many times and enjoyed it. I started piano seriously fairly late, in college so i thought that might have something to do with it. however, when my daughters were young and skated in competitions, I spent so much time at the rink that I took lessons. While I did not compete, I did take tests in front of judges and was fine. I tried to do a double major in college but did not finish the music, partly due to the fact that the school decided in my junior year that not just the piano performance majors but everyone would have to do a senior recital. I could barely get through the jury exams. My hands would shake constantly and it is hard to play well when your hands won't stop shaking. My teacher at the school left at the end of my junior year and my teacher at home moved. The teacher i had in my senior year was not a good fit and I got discouraged and quit piano in the middle of my senior year. I played for awhile on my own. Then I got married and had kids and work and did not touch a piano for over 35 years. Two years ago I started to play a little on my own and then started lessons again, Of course I wish I had not given up all those years ago but I am so happy that I have found the piano again. I can't imagine not playing now. I work part time now so have lots of time to practice.

Zillybug, what an interesting history. With your many successful performance experiences, I suspect your real problems with piano performance are related to your college-age experiences. Not feeling up to doing the senior recital, not getting to complete the double major you wanted, losing teachers you worked well with at home and school, being left with a "bad fit" teacher ... One negative event after another, capped by giving up piano altogether.

I'm no therapist, but I do know there's a psychological theory (probably more than one) that says we can get partially "stuck" at a younger age, mentally and emotionally, in response to negative experiences. No matter how well we mature in other areas of our life, in the affected area, we remain stuck, feeling/responding like we did at the original age, until we can undo the damage.

Something like that may be happening here, as performance anxiety doesn't seem to be a problem for you except when it comes to piano. Perhaps you could raise this question with the therapist/hypnotist/meditation teacher you mentioned previously (or another professional).

I love that you finally returned to piano and are enjoying it. Happiness at the bench!

Steve G. Jones, M.Ed., Clinical Hypnotherapist, charges $1,500 for a custom recording and $25,000 for a one-hour private hypnotherapy session at his office. but you can get all the benefits for this low price.

Ouch... $25,000 for a 1 hour private session! Imagine how many years of lessons you could get for that

For $25,000 an hour, I'll teach anyone piano. I'll even fly to wherever you are free of charge. Any takers?

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Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

ChopinAddict
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6227
Loc: Land of the never-ending music

WOW. I could buy a house after just a few sessions. AND a Steinway D to put in it. I have always been a bit psychic (I think of people who haven't written for months and get an email from them or even sad cases like once I suddenly thought of a former friend, looked her up to see if she had a Facebook page or a website, and her funeral was the day after )Maybe I should get into hypnosis as a second career - just for cash. I know it is not the same as being a bit psychic, but I could learn the craft.

Perhaps I can be of some help. Before I became disabled I was training to be a mental health counselor at Liberty University. We talked some about hypnosis and the added training it took in order to be qualified to use hypnosis. By all means do not go to someone advertising themselves as a hypnotist in the phone book or something. These people do not have the training required to do hypnosis. Unfortunately the industry isn't regulated. Some will even put letters behind there name signifying membership in an organization, but the organization is bologna. You want to find a psychologist or therapist trained in it.

Hypnosis can indeed help you over come performance anxiety and they would likely have you visualizing your past experiences and addressing them. Bare in mind you have to be naturally inclined to be hypnotized and to retain hypnotic suggestion. My advise before spending that kind of money would be to read a how to essay on progressive relaxation and do it before you play the piano. I am trained in this and in this case it would likely help. I would try progressive relaxation with visualization before hypnosis because you can do it for free and everyone can do it and it might save you a lot of money that may not even work.

I personally would stay away from Zen and Eastern forms of meditation for religious reasons and because you are altering your state of mind without proper training, but that's just my personal opinion.

Edited by BillTheSlink (01/27/1312:45 AM)

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Currently I am without a piano, but when I get mine back I will be working on "The Complete Piano Player", as well as Neely's "How to Play from a Fake Book. I am spending my time working on theory and learning how to construct chords currently.