The argument I've always heard within the church against masturbation is taken from Genesis, regarding the story of Onan. His brother died, so according to the law of the time he was required to sleep with his brother's wife in order to impregnate her and continue his brother's family line. However, Onan didn't want to impregnate her so he "spilled his seed on the ground". God was angry about this and struck him down. That "spilled his seed on the ground" could be taken a couple of different ways -- one is that he "pulled out" before orgasm and spilled it that way. Another is that he simply masturbated instead of having sex with her. Either way, Onan was exhibiting rebellion against God by his actions, which is the point of the story.

My own belief is as Mark stated above -- it depends upon the heart and mind at the time of the act.

Onan's trangression was his neglect of the levirate law that required him to father a child to perpetuate his dead brother's name and lineage. "Wasting" or "destroying" his seed refers to <i>coitus interruptus</i>

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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.~ Oscar Wilde

[quote=dgoods]not currently Christian, but not ignorant eitherI agree, it would not be easy to live literally by Leviticus.</quote>

No one ever lived "literally" by Leviticus. The laws in Leviticus and the rest of the Torah were constitutional principles upon which the structure of Jewish life was constructed. It cannot be understood or implemented outside of the living traditional framework of a transgenerational community that studies and lives the laws. The laws in the "Old Testament" were given that people might live by them and we are told that that these laws are within our grasp and we can choose to live by them (Deuteronomy 30:11-20).

<quote>It is widely understood that the prohibitions against pork and shellfish within the OT reflect an ignorance as to the cause or prevention of trichinosis or salmonella. With no microscopes or antibiotics, how would you keep your people safe from these threats in a way that would survive generations? Easy- make it a sin against God.</quote>

That may be the way the laws of kashrut are widely understood, but that is not the reason they exist. Otherwise, chickens would be prohibited along with pigs due to the risk of salmonella. No, the dietary laws existed to make their adherents distinct from other peoples and to elevate the act of eating to a sacred, religious experience.

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.~ Oscar Wilde

I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions that I see bandied about so often.

My opinion is that masturbation is basically good, like the rest of the sexual faculty. The question is why is one doing it? If you're using masturbation to escape from feelings that you would rather not face, as a way to distract or numb yourself, then it's no different from alcohol, drugs, shopping, gambling -- anything that creates a happy feeling in the brain. In situations like that, it's not a healthy choice.

If, on the other hand, you want to give yourself pleasure as an act of self-love or simply because you're horny and want to let off steam, as it were, it's perfectly fine and good.

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.~ Oscar Wilde

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Registered: 05/31/03
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lv,

re:

Quote:

Not quite.

since i was quoted as being misinformed, i feel it necessary to defend my position and clarify that my comment was merely an allegory to the subject at hand, not an attempt to educate the masses on levitical law.

i can truly appreciate that you are coming from a place where you felt it necessary to comment as you did, and i have no issue with that. i have my own side of the street to take care of, because the buck stops here, and if i don't noone else will. does that amount to making a mountain out of a mole hill? i don't think so; my healing process calls me to be a person whose recovery means not only standing in my truth, but also bearing witness to it. even if it seems being contrary.

i am not disputing in general what you say nor your right to say it. what i do respect very deeply is that we can disagree without being disagreeable, and i think that is the best honesty i can to both myself and the community.

My reasoning is that a divine God would try to understand the masturbation. And, once done, if I'm remorseful for those times that were 'wrong', as felt in my soul, would probably forgive. For those occasions I felt masturbating was not sinful or 'wrong', in that context, I'd want that understanding God to trust my decision.

If the true God isn't as understanding as I am suggesting, then I'll take responsibility afterwards I guess.

Of course, all this is purely hypothetical, :).

Edited by hogan_dawg (07/07/0803:52 PM)

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I can say unequivocally that the lie of "To truly heal you must first forgive" has derailed more victims than the abusers themselves. Andrew Vachs, 2003

hi, I am not sure I am allowed to post in this area, but the title caught my eye and I thought some of you would get a kick out of this.

I have 3 sons. Two of them are teenagers.After having a heated discussion with each other, my younger son comes out into the kitchen to inform me that his older brother is gay. Gay you say, why is this? He proceeded to explain to me that my older boy admitted to masturbating while talking to his friend on line. Embarrassed, but still puzzled, I asked how does this make him gay? "Well Mom, isn't it true that only gay guys do that?" WHAT?

I then had to explain to him that it is for everyone. Of course it had to be a night my H was at work, so I was on my own. My face was beat red. Hopefully he got the point that everyone is welcome to help themselves to themselves, but only in their own space, and in private, but you are free to enjoy it, and never be ashamed for doing it.( just you don't need to let your mom know, LOL)I asked him where he got that idea about it being for gay people, and his response was," I don't know I thought I read it or something."

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