What a way to come back…

I can’t say that I expected to come back to the office on Monday to all of the craziness of the past few days, but needless to say, it’s been quite the whirlwind.

Thanks to all of you on the well wishes. I’m happy to report that everyone is great back home and life has gotten infinitely better. Anyone with kids can certainly attest to that.

As for things here in Dodgerland, I want to thank Grady for everything he’s done for the organization and for me, personally, over the past two years. While many of you seem to be happy with the change and have been advocating for it, most of you have also let it be known that your opinions are not personal towards him and I’m glad to know that. I really think that you’d be hard pressed to find a finer person in any walk of life. He’s honest, loyal, hard-working and the consummate professional. The sort of burnout that happens in this game has been seen numerous times, most recently up in Seattle back in July, and I applaud Grady for his actions.

While there’s been a ton written about us over the past few days, I believe Tim Brown’s account on Yahoo is the closest I’ve seen to being accurate. That’s not to say it’s perfect but I’ve long respected him for getting the story right and I think he did that here.

I’m obviously not in a position to comment on any negotiations currently going on, but we’re all hopeful that this gets resolved soon and that we can move forward as an organization and start improving the other areas of the team that need improvement.

As soon as I have more information that I can share, I certainly will and hope to start updating the blog on a regular, if not daily basis.

I have noticed alot of you have been posting you would rather have Jones/Hunter and Pettite over ARod. First of all I believe Pettite told MLB.com yesterday that if he isn’t back with the yankees he will retire. Second of all I don’t understand your logic when many of you say you think ARod is ‘above the game’. I have seen nothing which would lead me to believe so. Third of all many of you have posted that either you don’t want to pay a player 30 mil per or that ARod isn’t worth 30 mil per or that for 30 mil per ARod better “have numbers like .350 70 and 200.” I thoughrouly disagree with all of those statements. If ARod helps to take us deep into the playoffs, he is worth every penny. He would fill the hole that we have never replaced since Beltre left… a solid 3B and a consistant, in his prime middle of the order bat. Mr. McCourt, Ned please, BRING IN AROD!!!!!!

Josh, well said about Grady. Althogh many of us didn’t always agree with his managerial style I think we all respect who he is as a person. Personally I think the organization should be embarassed for the way they backed him into a corner and forced him to “resign”. There is a right way to part ways with someone and then there is a wrong one and I think the Dodger organization was definately in the wrong catigory. BEST WISHES GRADY!!!!!!

Welcome back Josh and again contrats to you and wife on your new baby.

Tell us the truth, did you read all of the 600+ posts in the prior thread?

Good luck to Grady and Debi. Both are a class act. Debi: I will miss seeing you and talking with you at the stadium. You are one of the nicest ladies (never mind Dodger wife) I have ever met at the stadium and I’ve been going since back in the late 70’s I am sure others at the stadium will also miss you. I am sorry I did not get a chance to say goodbye to you :-( You know your gift baskets for the silect auction were the best. -Emma

For what it’s worth – and I know that many of you will choose not to believe this – Grady was not backed into a corner. The honest truth is that he really did mention the idea of resigning during the final weeks of the season and Ned not only told him he could come back, but encouraged him to take the time he needed to think it through. We all believed he would be coming back, which is why Frank and Ned said what they said on the last day of the season.

I know that that sounds hard to believe or “too convenient” but having lived through this for the last month, it is also the reality of the situation and it’s not debated by anyone involved. – Josh

Thanks for the credible confirmation of the gist of Tim Brown’s article. The Rich Donnelly quotes that I’ve seen around also lend believability to that angle.

I’ve been as critical as anyone regarding Little’s in-game decision-making (certainly questionable at times), and the brouhaha over the locker-room infighting imbroglio cast a public doubt (justified or not) on Grady’s leadership abilities, but I do not wish him ill will nor bid him a nasty good riddance. Grady had his good qualities and he isn’t even the worst Dodger manager this century (that guy is also fresh out of a job) – he just isn’t the right man for this job. Little’s misfortune is that his two MLB managing opportunities came in two of the largest markets, under difficult circumstances (Boston’s press, Colletti’s weird roster).

[I thought Colletti’s most extensive background was PR. I find that a little surprising given that I don’t think he comes across all that effectively in live situations like the conference call or interviews. Maybe Camille Johnston needs to feed him better lines. ;) ]

Ultimately, the Dodgers’ problems lie in a few obvious places: keeping arms healthy, playing the right players (more Kemp, Loney and LaRoche [unless ARod is at third] please) more often, not overworking the bullpen (how’s Torre’s track record with that, hmmm?), and deciding on the best way to eat the sunk cost that is in centerfield.

charris, to continue our conversation from the last thread, i guess whats separates us as Dodger fans is my belief that there is always a next year.the current playoff system and MLB hype wants us all to believe that our team should be in the playoff every year. well in the old days only one from each league went to the World Series and everyone stopped what they were doing to watch. there are no “Glory Days” in Dodger history. there have been good years and bad years and there have been years that magic happened. there have been years that could have, years that should have and years we would all like to forget. i remember hearing “why do they keep Alston?”, and i’ve heard “that Lasorda sure isn’t Alston. Alston wouldn’t stick with all those kids.” the major problem i have with this blog is that a few of the loudest make the most comments and they with switch their opinions 180 degrees about a player or manager within a couple of days. i have seen posts from 18 or 19 year old kids say things like “i hope he gets injuried so that we we can get him out of the lineup.” how sick hoping that a man gets hurt just so we can watch a kids game in a manner that suits us. I believe that as the McCourts move forward that they will find a way to give us one more magic year. might be we have to dig out the old Bums saying “wait till next year” but it will come. charris i have to love and respect you BECAUSE you are a Dodger fan,after 50 years thats the only way i know how to do it. so GO BLUE

scott@whittiermailing.com : I’m no Ned apologist, but what would you have Ned say? He can’t admit he’s talking to people about the manager job in case Grady decides to step down. The real problem is the leaks to the press in the first place. (From Torre’s people? Girardi’s? Yankees’ FO? Dodgers’ FO?) And the other problem is us fans who are sometimes trying to read something in each and every word of each and every quote attributed to all sorts of unnamed sources of every description – some of which is likely DISinformation, e.g., an ARod salary figure – a favorite Boras tactic.

Welcome back Josh & best wishes to you & Grady Little. Nothing personaly but yeah the move was needed, I was hoping for Girardi but I guess Joe TOrre isn’t bad either, we’ll see how he does handling young up & coming players, should be a fun year/hot stove.

Welcome back Josh- we all missed your insight, thanks for setting the record straight.

sabre3, I didn’t want to make enemies with somebody that has obviously battled through more “forgettable seasons” than I have so thank you for taking the high road and yes I also have love and respect for all that have rooted for our Dodgers for decades. I guess my 2 main points to that post were that I’m personally glad that Grady is gone and while the matter probably could have been handled in a more PC way, I’m happy to see him go. The second point is this, I have rooted for the Dodgers since I was 6 years old and have seen disappointing ends to every season but 1, I will always be a Dodger fan but my frustration with the organization is growing. Since the final out of Game 5 of the ’88 series, the vast majority of teams in MLB have won at least one playoff series and we haven’t. When your payroll and revenue are consistently near the top year in and year out, thats flat out unacceptable. I have respect for you and your views, but I can certainly understand the growing frustration from our fan base (especially the younger ones who didn’t even get to witness the magic that our ’88 team brought us). Every year I fool myself and think wow this is the season we’ll turn it around, only to be disappointed. Let’s hope ’08 brings that magic back!

Kudos to you Josh, I haven’t posted in a long time as it got to be same old same old. I try not to be negative but just a comment to those who have been promoting Logan for GM. How many GMs have been hired so far? What did he get, one snif with the Astro’s? Some time people’s forte is defined by what they are doing, Logan seems to definitely know amateur talent and minors but to tackle the duties of a GM? This apparently how the industry viewed him. He seems to have his niche so let him do what he does best. Couple things on Torre, obviously he did not have the same team in his first year that he had in 2007. I am not a Yankee fan or follower so I’m speaking off the top of my head. Those former young player who are now veterans like Jeter and Posada and maybe some others probably got their start under Joe. Also, the present ones Cano, the kid pitcher Joba and the young guy at first base were part of this years core team. I don’t know all the kids who came up under Torre but he seemed to be able to incorporate them with the Vets and win. Sorry for the vagueness of names but I don’t care much for or follow the Yankees. Too long a Dodger fan going back to the Brooklyn days. It seems like he has the confidence, experience and ability to work with kids and Vets. He has a presence that Grady did not have because he was an good player and instills confidence. Grady did seem like a real good quality person, again maybe his forte is minor league managing and he was very very good at it. Many have that same great ability to work with the kids. Terry Collins comes to mind but I sure ther are many other. Just a few thing to consider.

What s strange last few days. As I sit here the one recurring thought I have is how defensive and irritable Colletti seemed in that conference call announcing Grady’s resignation.

Josh, I really want to believe all this was of Grady’s choosing but Dodger credibility seems so strained lately. Frank McCourt needs to step up and be an honest spokesman for this organization, not Colletti. He’s the one constant in all this mess. And I’m not talking mid-game PR ****-chats with Vinny.

Welcome back Josh, and congratulations. I had read Tim Brown’s post on Yahoo! and thought that it “fit”–that explained what the heck a “developing opportunity” meant when the issue came up with Girardi. Grady’s frustration at season’s end showed, and I don’t think that either Torre or Girardi would be part of a “coup” of another manager. And, finally, it still “fits” because if we were firing Grady just to get Torre or Girardi, we could have done that before, and we would have announced the move at the same time.

That said, it seems all too convenient. But sometimes the truth is, and I don’t think Josh had to stick out his neck in a post and a comment to push a fabrication.

Of course, the whole story may not be clear–how much was Grady being encouraged to come back, or being pushed to leave is unclear. It’s murky, even accepting the basic explanation as true.

And even so, it’s still a black eye for the organization. So much drama over the last week–we’re not the Hollywood Stars!

All that being said, I would still rather have Kirk Gibson. Torre had a great run–but I fear he will be like Casey Stengel–legendary for the Yankees, but limited success before and after. And I am sure Don Mattingly is a great guy, but as an heir apparent for the Dodgers? He’s a Yankee–not a Dodger.

Gibson would be an inspiration. I can still imagine Tommy Lasorda at the press conference: “When we signed this guy 20 years ago, I said that people would be dancing in the streets of Los Angeles in October. We signed him, and that October, people were dancing in the streets of Los Angeles. Well guess what–now that he’s our manager, people are going to be dancing in the streets of Los Angeles again this October!”

I am also glad that
Grady “resigned” for whatever reasons, too many bad decisions in too many ball games. Am very excited for Torre to come on board, it’s strange how a good manager can inspire and lead a team and a mediocre manager make the team seem to flounder. One more thing, I really like the way Jeff Kent plays ball and hope he’s up for one more year. That guy is a throw back to the hard nose, dirt on your uniform, do anything to win type of ballplayer that seems to be all to frequently lacking in our present game. Also I like McCourt and his effort to improve the team and the stadium, I think he’s showing that he is an owner who wants to win and is a good business man also, what’s so wrong with that?

I think that Grady realized in the end how much the majority of the fans disliked him and blamed him for the collapse of the team and the late season clubhouse fiasco. Personally I blame Colletti as much as Grady for last season, and it’s a shame that he is still there now negotiating for a replacement.

When it comes to the new manager, it looks like Torre will be it, although I totally agree with leekfink’s post above concerning Gibson. We probably should have cut our ties with Grady in the normal manner and got Gibson aboard. Now our management tone will be set in a different direction (a la Yankees) with both Torre and Matingly guiding that direction. I think that a new coaching staff is welcome, since I never saw Jauss contributing anything, and Donnelly at least contributing to a lot of base running disasters. I never liked Honeycutt much either. I’m not sure how well Torre can do in the new environment, minus a $100 million or so in player payroll compared to his last couple of years. Obviously, we’ll all wish him the best. I only hope that Colletti does a much better job of providing him with the best available team to manage.

Many of us have complained that the Dodgers took on too many veterans past their prime at salaries too high for their actual performance with the team. Are we about to embark on the same methodology with our managers?

Little was fired from the Red Sox, because he essentially didn’t bring the expected results to Boston and its fans. Nobody touched him until Colletti brought him to the Dodgers. I’m not a Yankee fan, but I can understand why the fans and ownership would not renew Torre’s contract, particularly since he had the highest payroll in baseball (including that supposed savior A-Rod for practically every game) and couldn’t get past the first round of the playoffs. As a Yankee fan I probably would want to see a new direction too. Torre will be that high profile and very expensive manager that the ownership may be enamored with, but is he also burned out and had his best years behind him. We’ll all be hoping that is not the case, but the philosophy of older age veterans seems to be repeating itself.

messagebear, I think Torre’s success in regards to payroll is all relative. Sure he had the highest payroll with the Yanks, but his biggest division rival had the 2nd highest and several others in the division were just short of 100 million:

New York Yankees $ 189,639,045

Boston Red Sox $ 143,026,214

Baltimore Orioles $ 93,554,808

Toronto Blue Jays $ 81,942,800

The NL West on the other hand seems to be ours for the taking when factoring in payrolls:

Los Angeles Dodgers $ 108,454,524

San Francisco Giants $ 90,219,056

San Diego Padres $ 58,110,567

Colorado Rockies $ 54,424,000

Arizona Diamondbacks $ 52,067,546

So I guess the Giants payroll (percentage wise) is a little closer to than Boston’s is to the Yanks, but we still have double the salary of most of the division (just like the Yanks). So while Torre’s payroll will be close to 50% of what he’s used to dealing with, his competition (in division) is about 50% of his for the most part and the Dodgers do have the highest payroll in the NL.

Point well taken, charris, and I’m certainly hoping that Torre will bring success to our club. I’m probably wishing that we had a closer look at someone like Gibson and maybe established a new direction with a fresh talent who may be the next rising star.

Agreed messagebear, I just think that the Grady “resignation” was strange, if our front office knew about it, why not try to lure in a Gibson/Girardi type? Same ol PVL tactics by our management as you mentioned above I guess.

Referring to the Dodgers’ fourth-place finish last season, Loney said, “I don’t think you can put any certain percentage of blame on the manager. It depends on the kind of players you have.”

And the players we had was who’s fault?

Coletti made playing time promises to the veterans. When Grady began breaking those promises by playing better players the Vets freaked out and became babies. Its so simple to see if you just read between the lines.

Now most of you would say well Grady should have stood up and played the players he felt gave us the best chance at winning, (and I agree) however thats alot of wishful thinking and a bit un realistic.

There were 120 million dollars worth of reasons to play Pierre, Nomar, Gonzo, Tomko, Hendu, Schmidt(when they knew full well in spring training he was toast)over younger superior talent.

I have had jobs where people have basically said, you do it our way, toe the company line type thing….and then….upon reflection I am like I can’t do this anymore. My name is on the line and ethically or moraly i just can’t “fake” it again…

All year Grady had to sell us garbage night after night about Nomar, JP, Gonzo, Tomko….and I simply don’t think he wanted to do it again…considering Coletti had the gall to say half of it was his fault.

No need to rehash..but yeah if Grady was 100 percent the guy making those choices (as HE said he was, but really i think he was taking one for the team to be honest, and then after Coletti said it was half his fault he snapped and said F-this) then GOOD RIDDANCE..but I don’t belive that and never will.

I do not know more about Baseball that Little and even I could see Nomar was toast in April for example

yeah, jungar when looking at the situation from that perspective, its believable that Grady got fed up and said enough is enough I’m outta here. Coletti needs to redefine his role as a GM and trust the personnel around him.

I could also see how that was the case, but even if it was playing out like that Grady is still at fault for not exercising his full right as the Manager. No one is forced to do anything– he could have done it the way he believed we would win, but he took the issued marching orders and the rest, as they say, is history.

I just want to remind everyone that we HAVE NOT signed Torre yet, so i just think we should stop talking like we have.

Welcome back Josh,***Man this has been a hectic week, I’ve been running back and forth to my TV, trying to get word on this latest development. I really never, like most people, expect anything like this to happen after the season ended. Well good luck to Little, what ever happens, from here on. Well it’s back to ESPN and let’s hope everything comes out in our favor. LET’S GO DODGERS!!

So I just read an interesting article on Baseball Prospectus saying that the dodgers would be better off signing rowand and schilling and playing LaRoche at 3b, instead of just signing A-Rod. I disagree with it. any opinions?

Rowand would work but I’d rather have a gold glover in either Jones or Hunter. I don’t think we need Schilling, LaRoche or A-Rod. I think you trade some prospects for a proven third baseman and a middle aged pitcher. Schilling is too old. If he was 30 then I’d say go get him but he’s over the hill. We’ve already seen what happens when you try to bring in 1 year fixes.

Well they would move Pierre to left, keep Kemp in right, and probably trade Ethier for a pitcher or something. The basic premise of the article was that the combo of Rowand/Schill/LaRoche is better than Pierre/A-Rod/Loaiza and perhaps cheaper. I also think a main point was that A-rod is clearly better than LaRoche, but LaRoche’s cheapness and potential should not be overlooked.

I would take Rowand/Schill/LaRoche over Pierre/A-Rod/Loaiza. Here’s why:

1. Rowand is so much better than Pierre.

2. I’d bet more on Schilling than I would Loaiza.

3. A-Rod is the best player in baseball but the 4th reason is why I pick against him.

4. Pierre gives up so many runs. Rowand would save us runs plus be able to put up solid offensive numbers as well. With the runs Rowand would save and the offense he and LaRoche would produce would outweigh the production A-Rod would produce because Pierre takes away half of that with his arm and his low offensive numbers.

So I think you save a lot of money and put up better numbers with Rowand/Schilling/LaRoche.

Uh.. but we can’t get rid of Pierre. Ill reiterate if they put in him in LF they might as well DFA him. Totally pointless. Someone tell me why Ned should keep his job if he has to sign ANOTHER CF to replace the one he just handed a five year contract to… Im totally against ARod for the reasons you all have already mentioned.

Jspelk is right here regarding Rowan/Pierre– it would be great if we were replacing Piere with Rowand, than obviously its a great move. But you cant really balance out Pierre and ARod vs. LaRoche and Rowand– where does Schilling even play here? We should just move Pierre, bite the bullet and pay a lot of money for him, and move on with Rowand, Ethier, Kemp.

Jungar–I basically agree with your take on why Grady played who he did and when he did. But I don’t think it was explicit in terms of Ned calling down and saying “you have to put Gonzo in the line-up.” I just think that there was a general understanding that if you hire an $8 million a year left-fielder, or a $9 million a year centerfielder, the expectation is that they are supposed to play. I definitely think that was frustrating, and imagine that there may have been some statements about the need for them to play. In other words, maybe he and Ned were not quite on the same page.

Cameron’s point on Torre was good–presumably, he’s not going to come in as a manager and not get the personnel he thinks are necessary to win. But what worries me is that the Yankees for the last 6 years took a sign-any-free-agent policy which did not work out that well for them.

“. . .but we’re all hopeful that this gets resolved soon and that we can move forward as an organization and start improving the other areas of the team that need improvement.”

Coming from a “Blue-Bleeder” since 1958, if I hear this faux-positive statement above one more time, I’m going to eat a bullet. One step forward, two steps back isn’t cutting it! I’m tired of excuses. I’m tired of the GM pulling in people he used to know. Hopefully, if Torre is hired, he’ll get to make some solid baseball personnel decisions and put an end to this vets vs. rookies madness. These guys who haven’t gotten it done are paid too well for these below average results. Do what you’re paid to do whether veteran or rookie, get it together and work harder. I don’t care if the manager is Prof. Irwin Corey, quit the whinning and play to your potential.

I can’t understand why many of you seem to be opposed to the idea of signing ARod. He is the type of player who could take us to the top(even with Ned’s signings of Pierre, Loaiza, Hendy, etc.). I figure its more then worth the risk of 30 mil because if we win ONE playoff series then it will be a better season then one we’ve seen in a long time. I don’t buy any of that “he hurts the team chemistry” BS. Personally I have seen nothing from him that supports that theory, certainly nothing more then what I have seen from Kent or Kemp. Please Mr McCourt, this is as good a chance you and Ned will have to get LA excited and put a winning team on the field. SIGN AROD!!!!!

Grady was a problem and im glad he’s gone but the Dodgers won’t win anything with Ned Colletti in charge. He has to go. He is easily the worst GM in baseball. He acts like he has no knowledge of the game and just goes out signing players based on reputation.

I or anyone else on this blog with any basic knowledge could put together a better team then Ned could. I’d be willing to stake something very important on that. **** if the Dodgers let a group of fans be GM for a year they could put together a better team then Colletti.

Welcome to the Dodgers Joe. I hope you are successful and wish you the best of luck. Joe’s a class guy. I just hope he has a good team to manage and Ned doesn’t screw it up again. Maybe Ned will resign?

The last thing we need is anybody on this blog making decisions for this ballclub. Let the offseason begin. Welcome to the Dodgers Joe Torre and Donnie Baseball among others. Love this move and hopefully free agents will think the same thing.

Alex – not sure what you mean by anyone on this blog making decisions for this ballclub. All season long we had posters hollering for Grady and Ned’s head, dissing JP, etc. That’s just offering opinions and in some cases hoping. Our decision making power is rather limited.

I am not so excited about this move as many seem to be. Joe is probably a good manager under the right circumstances. He certainly wasn’t in the NL when he didn’t have stacked teams. Perhaps he has outgrown that. My concern is not Joe as manager but what follows to create those circumstances for him. They are major as he couldn’t get a WS ring in NY for the past seven years with a stacked line up and the highest payroll in baseball. What follows to satisfy Joe – costly free agents that strangle our flexibility, trading the kids for costly players, seemingly those Joe approves of. Hopefully not.

I don’t think Joe is here to help rebuild in the way rebuilding should be. So, I am not excited about what might follow. All of a sudden we want all these Yankee guys running the Dodgers. Joe is not a messiah. Having said that I certainly hope he proves me wrong. All of asudden we want A-Rod after branding Boras as the devil, maybe Andruw Jones too. A-Rod on board. Hopefully not. My guess would be the most ludicrous contract in history with ………………… an opt out clause.

euhlman@bwr.eastlink.ca The kids are our future and that is the way to go , but it wouldn’t hurt having a veteran or two who are IN THEIR PRIMEs help out the kids. It also is good to have a manager that everyone will respect.

fliegel@ptd.net – I agree and I agree. We do have to add parts but not at the cost of strangling our payroll so we can’t keep our own when they get to free agency. Yes, we do need a manager that everyone respects and I expect Joe has earned and deserves that. I have no problem giving that.

However, I don’t think he is a miracle worker. I don’t like that we are setting the expectations so high. I don’t think Joe will be the”face of the Dodgers”. I don’t think he was the “face of the Yankees”. Derek Jeter was, in my opinion. Russell Martin is going to be for the Dodgers. Mike Scioscia is one of the few mangers, maybe only, that is the “face of his team.”

I hope we have a wonderful 2008, Joe is ultimately successful, BUT the future goes beyond one year so tread carefully Ned.

From Grady Little to Joe Torre, looks like a smooth transaction. I’m just hoping it’s not too smooth. Joe is a lot like Grady, although now many are saying he’s not. I really was looking for a manager like a Pinella or Guillen(a Durocher or Billy Martin type). Being as it is, I have to admit, I am very happy for my fellow BROOKLYN BORN new Dodger Manager. I am mostly happy that we have someone who just managed in New York and is very well known in New York. I think it puts the Dodgers back on the New York Map. I read all about him everyday, all summer, in the newspapers. I love the way he ran the DH, but ofcourse he won’t do too much of that here. ***After the Lasorda days, as manager, this team had become just another out of town team in New York, do to the lack of championships. I think the hiring of the popular Joe Torre helps in that respect. Everybody’s calling me up to wish the Dodgers luck. I’ll stick my neck out and say that Joe usually makes the right decisions on the field, it will be up to the Dodgers to execute. The Yankees always provided him with the best talent around. As we all know he picks up a 4th place team with the Rockies (NL Champs) the D’Backs(Div Champs) and the Padres who missed by an eyelash, in front of us, with the Giants chugging behind us. Colletti has to do a better job, let’s hope Joe can help him out. The Yankees payroll was 207 million when he left, we will have to catch up (124 million), this may be our turning point GO DODGERS.

That’s what I’m talkin’ about! No, Joe didn’t have great success in the NL, but the teams he managed didn’t have the talent that we do. Martin, Broxton, Ethier, Kemp, Loney, Furcal… Hopefully there is a stud third baseman with the initials AR on the horizon as well. That is of course unless Ned is still pee-pee mad at Boras for doing a good job for his client, JD Drew. Ned should take a lesson from Boras on business deals and doing what you’re paid to do regardless.

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