How Much Can Game Do?

Many detractors and doubters of the crimson arts, including but not limited to a rather peculiar yet endearingly patriotic and bracingly truthful subculture of HBD quant geeks, have tried to find and exploit fissures in the foundation of the Chateau by accusing yours in Christ of inflating the good that can be gained from game. They claim I overlook some very basic HBD (human biodiversity)-approved limitations imposed on men by immutable biological factors outside the reach of self-improvement efforts.

What do they think I’m running here? An archipelago of pretty lies? It’s time to set the record straight about what exactly game can accomplish for the man who wants more choice in women. And what better way to do so than through the use of a handy chart?

If you are:then tight game will bring you this:
an omega dreg an improvement from involuntary lifelong celibacy
to a couple bangs per year with 2s and under.

a lesser beta a few bangs per year with non-obese 4s and 5s and
the freedom to delay marriage to a tubby plain jane
for a couple of years while still fruitfully playing the field.

a garden variety an end to month-long dry spells, the exquisite pleasure
provider beta of occasional sex with a girl above the threshold of
genuine attractiveness (7), and a fiscal windfall from
having gained the ability to bed women without
spending godawful sums of money on them.

a greater beta double digit lifetime partners, one “8” girlfriend at least
ten years younger, and an ability to consistently get sex
by the third date and blowjobs on the regular. bonus:
you can reject cougars with impunity.

a lesser alpha triple digit lifetime partners, one “9” short-term girlfriend,
one threesome, and one multiple concurrent relationship
with a 7 and an 8.

a natural alpha 300 lifetime partners (should you choose to accept this
mission), multiple threesomes and orgies, long term
unmarried loving relationships with 8s and above,
and the freedom to hit (deserving) womenwithout worrying they will leave you or call the police.

a super alpha the world is your harem.

******

The dreg to super alpha continuum represents categories of men whose corresponding dating market value traits have been averaged for each group. For instance, a lesser beta could be a very short man with a middling income and dull personality, or a normal height unemployed man with no money and decent looks who has crippling approach anxiety and horrible fashion sense. Similarly, a lesser alpha could represent a tall man with good looks and above average income, but possessing some geeky personality quirk holding him back from reaching his full potential with women. An omega is a man whose product is unwanted by any buyer. Unlike the economic market, the sexual market is a zero sum game, so some unfortunate souls at the far left of the bell curve will be unable to find a buyer of their product. In fact, omegas will have to pay for the privilege of dumping their wretched products on the market.

As I’ve written before, what men like in women is simple. In descending order of importance, here are the female attractiveness traits that men desire in women:

Beauty.
Femininity.
Sexual eagerness.

In descending order of importance, here are the male attractiveness traits that women desire in men:

A man along the alpha-beta-omega axis will exhibit the above traits in varying degrees of magnitude. The more of each attractiveness trait a man possesses, especially of those traits at the top of the pyramid that most attract women, the greater in intensity, amount, and quality of female attention he will fetch. A super alpha is a man who has maxed out in each category of attractiveness. An omega is a man who possesses little to none of these traits. A typical beta provider is likely a man who is low in the top four traits, average in looks and smarts, high in dependability, and low in sexual prowess.

Using girlish and pretentiously wonky Will Wilkinson as an example, he would score thusly:

Psychosocial dominance: Not enough information. He could very well be an alpha in his dealings with girlfriends.
High status/fame: High. He has fame within his tardlike liberdroid circle of equalist boilerplaters. Every male endeavor (except video gaming) has female groupies.
Personality: Average. He loses points for feminine demeanor and unmanly vocal skills, but gains points for passion.
Wealth: Assuming his income status is solidly SWPL, he’d be at the high end of this category.
Looks: Average. Feeble muscularity counterbalanced by boy band/art fag face.
Cleverness: High. He should thank his libertarian god for blessing him with a high (but uselessly applied) IQ.
Dependability: Not enough information. But he has the face of a sneaky fucker, and he’s still unmarried in his 30s (which I approve of), so I’m going with low.
Sexual prowess: Not enough information (thank god). Could be a limp noodle, could be a tantric dynamo.

If very low = 1, low = 3, average = 5, high = 7, very high = 9, and godlike = 10, and weighting toward the top four character traits, we can calculate a rough sexual market value score for Will Wilkinson:

7.1

Will Wilkinson is a greater beta.

Attracts girls in the 6-8 range, doesn’t need to turn off lights to enjoy sex, once got a BJ in an alley, his half-Asian girlfriend will cry if he proposes to her, has accumulated 5-15 partners (plus one very pretty boy).

If Wilkinson scores high on psychosocial dominance and sexual prowess, he would bump up to a lesser alpha. Rarefied company indeed, Will! As it stands, his ineffectual bloviating about relationship exactness and complementarity to the contrary notwithstanding, Will perfectly obeyed the biomechanical law of the sexual market and cashed in his market value chips for a cute, slender chick who ranks about a 7.5 on the female dating market value scale (10 being Monica Bellucci in her prime).

Of course, Wilkinson, like most purveyors of palatable lies, does not believe in game, or even in the primacy of the sexual market (his type are liable to sneer “reductionist!” whenever confronted with the reality of humanity’s base animal nature and their enslavement to it). Why, if only the entire left hand side of the male curve would just get a grad degree and an enlightened attitude toward women, they too could enjoy the fruits of cute half-Asian girls!

The great majority of men are not genetically capable of getting grad school degrees, but they are capable of learning some rudimentary game. Concepts like negs, social proof, qualfication, compliance, and body language. And in the winner-take-all seduction sweepstakes, all else equal, an uneducated man wielding tight game will beat a game-eschewing educated man waving a diploma 99 times out of 100. Bet on it.

Again, using the example of Will Wilkinson I outlined above, we can roughly deduce what a man of his market value — greater beta — can accomplish with knowledge of game and assiduous application of it in the field. If Will is willing to shed his preconceptions and start reading up on all the free seduction material now available on the internet, plus find himself a mentor who could correct him when he fucks up in set, he could enjoy a lifestyle that includes dating and fucking girls even younger and cuter than his current girlfriend, and put off marriage indefinitely for the same benefits found within long term loving relationships with girls who, because they are so enamored of him, won’t pressure him for an expensive princess wedding.

Game is not a skeleton key that will open every locked pussy. It, like most human improvement projects, has its limitations; a 5′ 2″ ugly, dull, 60 year old factory line worker living in a rancid basement hovel is not going to go from celibacy to boffing supermodels no matter how advanced his game. But game’s limitations are much farther out than most men realize. That ugly, short, boring old guy won’t bang supermodels with game, but he will discover a world of fuckathon fun among 45 year old divorcees of mediocre attractiveness.

As game, or in weightier parlance, psychosocial dominance, sits at the pinnacle of male character traits that women find attractive, a man will get more bang for his social investment buck by learning game than he would by working hard at improving himself on more conventional metrics such as career advancement, wealth generation, educational attainment, or material acquisition. He should do all those things to the best of his ability, of course, but if he could only choose one path to pussy, I would counsel him to learn the science of seduction. A grad school degree requires an additional 6-7 years of commitment after high school plus crushing debt; career advancement requires years of kissing ass and working late; wealth generation requires a lifetime of prudent financial management; material acquisitions require hard-earned money and their effectiveness at attracting and keeping pussy is questionable.

But game, the beautiful drama, needs only six months to one year of study and practical application before a man will reap the rewards of tingly ginas. When you are running game, you are saying powerful things, you are behaving powerfully. And when you behave powerfully, you really are powerful. Game is power. And it all rests on one very simple, very true, premise:

Great post, as always, but my goals are different from those that you assume most men hold.

I’d be high-beta/low-alpha based on my “character sheet” (attractiveness, social ability, cleverness, intelligence, wealth) although my level of sexual and relationship experience is mid-beta. I probably qualify as a high beta according to your chart.

If “game” can give me a double-digit lifetime partner count, I don’t really care. (I believe it can; “game” is crass but succeeds very well on its own terms.) I’ve never had a taste for variety. I turn 26 next month, so I’m starting to think about the long term. I want to find, and marry, one exceptional female. Only about 10% of people find love that is as strong after decades as it was in the initial stages, and I want to be among that lucky minority. Keeping the relationship fresh is certainly necessary if one wants to achieve this, but I don’t think that’s “game” so much as a mix of (1) dedication not to take the relationship or the other person for granted, which includes staying in shape and maintaining one’s own separate interests, (2) equality and balance-of-power within the relationship, and (3) skillful and deeply emotional love-making (e.g. karezza).

The next and more important stage in the evolution of Game is for smart, logical, hard-headed nerdy guys to move beyond just figuring out how to persuade girls in bars that they are alphas to figuring out how to persuade men in boardrooms that they are alphas.

After all, if important men think you are an alpha male, then you are an alpha male, and you get all the rewards that go along with it, like power, money, prestige, and women who are attracted to men with power, money, and prestige.

In other words, why stop with the conquest of babes in bars when the conquest of the world is waiting?

Steve Sailer: a lot of the nerdy men who are learning game in the first place are already alphas among men careerwise. The whole reason many of them suck with women in the first place is exactly because they were getting the rest of their life areas like career in order and neglected that critical aspect of how to deal with women.

Given that bootcamps and seminars often cost thousands of dollars to begin with, a lot of slobs with bad careers get screened out immediately.

CH has the libertarian-leaning HBD contingent of philosophical adversaries, to whom he responded very well here. Of course, the bigger challenge would be the Auster school of Christian/social conservatives.

The next and more important stage in the evolution of Game is for smart, logical, hard-headed nerdy guys to move beyond just figuring out how to persuade girls in bars that they are alphas to figuring out how to persuade men in boardrooms that they are alphas.

The latter is a very different game. In a bar, girls notice you, but their default setting is to dislike you. In an office, peoples’ default setting is to like you, but they don’t especially notice you– much less care enough to mentor and promote you– if you’re three or more levels down. You have to stand out, but in a positive and professional way. “Peacocking” isn’t going to work.

After all, if important men think you are an alpha male, then you are an alpha male, and you get all the rewards that go along with it, like power, money, prestige

“Alpha male” capitalism is on its meandering way out. Salesmen and bullshitting rainmakers are still important, but the rising importance of technology is improving the status of technical people. It’s harder to “game” them because their opinion of you is based on whether you can do something, not how impressive your suit is.

Yup, hanging with naturals and such has illustrated as much. Every dude in DC is either wealthy, smart, educated, possessing a promising career or other status achievement unavailable in most normal small to medium ponds (I think most dudes here are short and not attractive though). And chicks here are, in the words of visitors from LA, fat, ugly, and stuck up (although VK seems to find the hot ones). Game is the missing link in a big city environment, there should be workshops.

I think this Wil dork has a problem in that PUA has a stigma. “Oh, you’re faking it. Oh, you’re tricking girls. It’s sleazy.” Well, yeah, if you are looking at it that way. But, these DC dudes (except for the goddamn save the world types) have reached their educational and career heights in order because they thought it would lead to success with women. So, why not go the next step and learn the real keys to success?

I’d second what Joe says, and add that there already are books and such on how to get ahead in business, sometimes even by the same authors as books on seduction. In particular, you might want to compare Robert Greene’s two books, The 48 Laws of Power and The Art of Seduction. (As you are particularly interested in Barack Obama’s career, you should be particularly interested in the former, as Obama seems to have followed Greene’s formula to a T.)

Some aspects of game do involve displaying traditional leader of men type alpha traits, but other aspects of game are more feminine, “sneaky fucker” type traits that are attractive to women but tend to actually lower your status among other males.

If men think you are an Alpha male, like say former Steelers coach Bill Cowher, that does not make you an Alpha to women.

Social dominance for women equals greater assertiveness and power over other men in competition for women. It is vastly different (and alien) to the sort of power-patronage networks that characterize men like Cowher, or the late Bill Walsh, or say former Tampa Bay coach and MNF commenter Jon Gruden.

For women, a z-list celebrity like Russell Brand or Jon Gosselin or so on, is far more desirable than a Gruden, because a Gruden type will create patronage under him, and take care not to humiliate (face-saving) those in his patronage network, while the appeal of a Brand or Gosselin type is the humiliation they can provide to other men. For women, when a man humiliates another man, that is proof of social power. For a man who has power among men, it’s a dumb move to make within one’s circle (creates an enemy).

There is in short a fundamental conflict between a female and male oriented Alpha.

Game can most benefit smart guys who already have good social skills, but who are clueless about female nature. This type of guy is often seriously underperforming and can see a stratospheric increase in his success.

As for how long it takes to get good, it can take as little as a couple months for guys who already have a lot of talent. For the average guy, you should be seeing definite improvement by 6 months and start seeing significant results by 1 year in.

The instructor for this one was a twenty-six-year-old U.S. Marine and part-time stand-up comic who went by the moniker Future. In a phone conversation several days earlier, he’d admitted that before he took the course himself in 2004 he had trouble attracting women. “I had this image that New York would be rife with women
clamoring to get some veteran ass,” he said, but somehow, they weren’t.

Being a U.S. Marine and having fought in Iraq didn’t help him because he’d drive women away before he’d get the chance to segue his service into the conversation. “My natural personality is rather exuberant,” he said, “but I had to moderate my behavior so it didn’t look like I was having a verbal seizure.” But his transformation wasn’t so simple. The method involves many steps and repeated
practice. As I thumbed through von Markovik’s book, I saw
he’d included more acronyms, fl owcharts, and diagrams than you’d find in a Space Shuttle fl ight plan.

Seduction Boot Camp was held in a small mirrored dance studio, adjoining other rooms where young dancers were quietly warming up in the hall. The class was an intimate affair, especially since one of the five students who prepaid didn’t show up, claiming a concussion. So it came down to me, four male students, and our instructor, Future, sitting in plastic chairs arranged in a circle.

…

After some small talk, our Marine/stand-up comic instructor
asked each of the students to answer a few questions: who he was, why he wanted to take boot camp, when (or if ) he lost his virginity, and how many women he’d had sex with.

The first student was a thirty-eight-year-old with a faint country twang in his voice that was hard to place—later he revealed he’d lived in Alaska before moving to New York. He’d made plenty of money recently and was taking some time off to find himself, he said. In his real estate business he’d always gotten what he wanted from people, but in love it was a different story. He seemed like a nice country boy until he revealed that after he lost his virginity at eighteen or so, he’d had sex with about twenty prostitutes and a dozen or so other women. “I do want the picket fence,” but before
he found his fence-mate, he said, “I’d like to have lots of good sex.”

The next to tell all was a lanky red-haired young man of twentynine who said he’d also lost his virginity around eighteen, slept with a handful of women, and still sought that elusive soul mate and perfect woman. He wanted her to be not just beautiful but a “solid person,” he said, not flaky or superficial.

The third student, a twenty-nine-year-old stockbroker and casino gambler, said his job had him shuttling between New York and London. He’d been banned from several casinos in Las Vegas for winning too much money. A man like that should have exuded confi dence, but instead he slouched, as if hiding, and spoke in a barely audible mumble.

Then there was the oddball of the group—a tall, buff, personal trainer and part-time model who looked like a cross between Tom Cruise and a young John Travolta. He said he was there partly to write a column for a fledgling Men’s Magazine, but he had also paid for the seminar. He had lost his virginity at sixteen and since then had slept with more than 200 women, he said, many of them glamorous models and actresses.

His revelation was met with a stunned silence. Future finally
broke in to ask the obvious question: “Why are you here?”
“I’m a perfectionist,” said the model/trainer. “I guess I want to be perfect in everything.” And he hated getting stuck in those three week-long dry spells, he said as everyone in the class winced—
Future included. But like all the other guys, he would like to get married someday. He’d turned forty recently, he said. “My parents are hoping I’ll settle down.”

One guy is wealthy from his own real estate business and says he has no problem getting what he wants from other men in boardrooms. Another has a job that flies him across the country regularly and is so good at gambling and making money he gets thrown out of places. Another is a combat-tested war veteran, meaning he knows how to face down and conquer other men too.

It’s bigger than this false premise you’ve created where it’s only guys who are failures in the world, in their careers and in dealing with other men who learn game. For many they have already accomplished all the things you mention and the confidence with women is just the final ingredient for them.

this probably isn’t that surprising to you and others attuned to HBD, but while video gaming certainly has no female groupies in the West, it’s different in South Korea. I’m not sure about other countries in East Asia, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re similar to Korea in this way.

Video gaming, especially Starcraft, is huge in Korea. They have televised competitions between star gamers, with two TV channels devoted exclusively to video gaming competitions and Starcraft. The young pro gaming stars make good bank and they’re pretty famous, with tons of young girl fans and groupies. During the competitions on TV you’ll see rows of seats filled with young girl groupies cheering on two dorks sitting in a stylized cubicle playing Starcraft against each other.

while the appeal of a Brand or Gosselin type is the humiliation they can provide to other men

Most women are not turned on by humiliating other men. Most women want your dominance displays to have a lot more subtlety. For example, while in set it is best to very briefly acknowledge but then completely ignore any of her loser male friends. If you go in and humiliate them, it will piss her off. Only if they start acting like rude assholes first are you free to destroy them.

Will’s girlfriends looks very hot. Let’s assume with game, he could score a girl 1-2 point higher than his current girlfriend. But the likelihood that his new girl is also a libertarian and also smart must be quite slim. In other words, he might have reached an optimum within the limitation of his belief. Pupu presume that most bookish men are afraid of threesomes. Pupu could be wrong though.

Interestingly I was reading on one of the Stevosphere quant sites about how looks work for men. Guys in the 95th plus percentile of looks apparently got way, way, way more responses on dating sites than guys even in the 90th-95th percentile. Someone dubbed this the “superstar” effect. So, if you are an insanely good looking man, you essentially don’t need game. (This would seem to be bourne out by some of the contestants on the show Keys to the VIP who did virtually nothing but still came away with the girl.) But if you are merely very good looking, you will need something more.

Wealth seems to work similarly. If you are a multibillionaire, you don’t really need much game. But if you are merely wealthy, you do.

I don’t think you can scale it this easily. Instead, there are two factors in the model: The natural ability to attract women, and the ability to benefit from studying game. Men are endowed with different levels of both of these traits, and that’s what’s going to affect how much they can improve their dating success.

What are the traits that contribute to a man being able to learn game? High IQ, high conscientiousness, and high openness to new experiences (anti-AA) and probably a systematizing/logical way of thinking. All of these are something around .5-.8 genetic.

Take for example, a man who is 6’3, naturally muscular and good looking, high-T, but has an IQ of 80. Is he going to log onto ASF, read 10+ books on NLP and go from lesser alpha to super-mega-turbo-alpha? No. But if a man is high in those traits, than his game/success curve will be much steeper. Neil Strauss struck me very much as a lesser beta, pre-game, and he’s obviously surpassed a few bangs a year with 4’s and 5’s. Similarly, a low-IQ lesser beta will probably not be able to apply game consistently.

@Steve

The principles of game are highly applicable to mens’ careers, at least if the men in question pick up some of the fundamental principles of ev psych and social dynamics, rather than simply memorize a list of behaviours. Learning about ev psych, body language, the importance of voice tonality etc will create major improvements in negotiation, sales and office-politicking skills. According to my experience, men who are successful in their careers as a result of their psychosocial dominance – salesmen, managers etc – do well with women too. When people talk about men who are successful in their careers, but not with women, I imagine they mean computer programmers and other “dilberts” whose intellect and technical skills carry them into 6-figure incomes. Psychosocial dominance isn’t part of the job description.

And let’s be honest… as repulsed as I am by WW’s HBD-blindered, intellectually dishonest Liberaltarianism, his lady friend is (according to wikipedia and google images) a pretty sexy lady. Lesser alpha, at least.

On the one hand, there are specific things a guy can do to improve his game. On the other, it seems like to get to a reasonably good level (lesser alpha status or better), hardcore personality change is necessary. Specifically, increased dominance.

An inevitable flaw with the seduction community is that its adherents are almost guaranteed to praise game over nothing. They’re starting from nothing often, so a simple smile from a cute girl will have them excited.

I met some community guys in LA, and I just got the immediate sense that they don’t fuck. They’ve got no edge.

College being a place of rampant sexual debauchery is a myth. Most college students are only on the cusp of being qualified and many are under-qualified for the curriculum. They have to put in serious effort to not drop out, and that means your social life (including sex life) is less active of a non-college student of the same age that is going to block parties every weekend two seasons of the year and going to clubs and bars a few nights a week year round.

College students only have a leg up on their teenage parent screw up counterparts, but not the lumpenproletariat masses that otherwise keep their lives on track and don’t knock up their 16 year old girlfriend, but are otherwise consumed with academic and financial obligations, not to mention if you actual live on campus the environment is far from ideal for seduction, even if the environment is target rich.

I don’t have a link handy, but statistics bear out my anecdotal observations. A handful of college students (that probably eventually flunk out) are fucking and partying a lot. The vast majority are not, because they have little time for even normal, monogamous relationships. I’ve seen college dissolve a lot of LTRs; especially when academic pursuits go into the post-grad arena. There just isn’t time for petty relationship bullshit. These people will have an occasional stress-relieving hookup, which is probably what the foundation of the promiscuous college student is based upon, but most genuinely aren’t going to have time for alleged sexual experimentation and a lifestyle of debauchery. Of course no one in college will admit that they aren’t getting laid.

The truth is that the lumpenprole non-college material, non-screw ups are probably a lot more into sexual experimentation and genuinely have the time to juggle multiple concurrent partners, et cetera.

I agree that college students are not as sexually active as myth would have it. But in my anecdotal experience, I know a few greater-beta types who had threesomes in college. You’re right, they weren’t getting laid often — it just so happened that when they did, the girls were more likely to experiment with a threesome.

It just seems weird to me that she ranks a threesome as something that is only attainable once in a lifetime by a lesser alpha who has tight game. They’re rare but not that rare.

1 .The wheat gets separated from the chaff in the principal rule of game: you must approach. IMHO that is the biggest limiting factor.

2. Out of curiosity, what effect does height have on ability to game? Short and ugly seem to be uttered in the same breath, but what about people who are short but “average” looking?

3. Who are some good public figures and movie practitioners who have wild game? Caveat: they must be ugly. All of “game in the movie” posts are done with great looking guys (Jesus, Paul Newman as an example of game?). Not counting Vladimir Putin–who is hard to understand–who is conventionally unattractive but shows mad game?

Steve Sailer is absolutely right about alpha maleness being equally applicable to males and females. If you think about evolution for 5 seconds, you should be able to see that the dominance that women prefer is the same social dominance that will make a man leader of the pack amongst males.

Yes, you can use a slight variation of game-related behaviors to advance your careers.

Even I, as a woman, noticed that I became more respected in social and professional settings when mimicing my alpha boyfriend’s mannerisms. His subsequent girlfriend told me the same thing. She said she worked in sales, and to help herself close big deals, she would pretend to be Mr. alpha and act as though she were him. And we are both 5 ft tall women.

Ksh, knowing some game is especially important and useful for an average to good-looking short guy (because if there’s an attraction, a woman usually doesn’t feel the same “oh wow” initial sexual pull to him….it’s more like a “hmm, I guess he’s cute.”)

So from that point on, the guy needs to handle things right to (for lack of a better word) upgrade himself from “cute” to “I could sex him” in her mind.

Relating game to career, I will have to say this: in a corporate environment, it does not look good to be alone and unattached. At any age, whether in your 20’s or 30’s, not having a girl on your arm when you are invited to the various corporate functions or non-work-related activities with co-workers (birthdays, New Years parties, etc.,) looks bad. People assume that there is something wrong with you when you are alone and unattached. “Escorts” don’t work out to well.

Corporate environments are also very dangerous because of the plethora of women around. “Gaming” such women in a hierarchical structure can be very dangerous due to a combination of white-knighting, sexual harassment laws and other factors. Yet, their judgment of your relationship fitness is also a factor in your success.

The basic problem with game in the workplace is this: the vast majority of men in their 50’s and 60’s, who have achieved a high-level of success in the corporate environment, did so at a time before the changes have occurred. They graduated from college before the era of affirmative action, immigration, off-shore outsourcing, wide-spread female liberation, etc., so they believe they are all self-made men, instead of men who were lucky enough to ride ahead of the equalist curve. Such men will not be gamed. They will keep you in your place until you work your way up or they replace you.

Ditto for the women seeking the upper-strata guy or the woman who works above you.

The only key “game” element that could possibly work in the workplace is actively undermining your managers and co-workers as much as you can in a subtle and sneaky way.

“you should be able to see that the dominance that women prefer is the same social dominance that will make a man leader of the pack amongst males.”
Nah. Some of the best seducers were men who had no interest in leading men. It’s a primary characteristic of the ‘rake.’ Porfirio Rubirosa for one.

I feel the same way – I feel a need to dominate women, but am content with being an equal among men. There are the guys who are dominant among men, but aren’t the most successful with women.

Additionally: everyone has heard of that guy who is unexceptional, but gets mad girls. The sex columnist at my school for instance – average height and looks, but he’s got some personality that just gets him sleeping with tons of girls. Every time I’ve seen him, he’s touching girls, daytime, nightime, in ways that girls would not usually allow. But it’s him, so it’s cool. He doesn’t try to do any of this ‘alpha’ shit, he just seems extremely comfortable around women, to the point of *seemingly* preferring their company to men.

Just like it’s not easy to get as charismatic as Bill Clinton, it ain’t easy to just ape these guys.

Yeah, like K said. Rampant sex in college is wildly overestimated. ~70% of people sleep with 0-1 people per year. You may think it’s more because you go out to bars where you meet girls who put up some numbers in their day, but they aren’t a representative sample.

one criticism of you: a lot of what you write seems like Gonzo-style caricature. Not to say that it isn’t provocative and entertaining, just that it’s not exactly the truth. The truth is a lot more lot more varied dreamed of in your philosophy. But for a solid middle average, that is for 90% of what happens to 90% of people, you speak the truth.

If only people knew how to milk that other 10%, things would turn out very differently.

For example, social “game” where you engineer things so the world brings hot women to YOU, is vastly superior to lone wolf player game where you go to clubs and get laid. Not to say you can’t grind on a hottie, buy her a drink and take her home. That is what picking up chicks meant in the old school days. Just be aware that there is a world of sluts and players, and people enter that world knowing what they are doing. For example, after leaving a long term relationship. There are a lot of lies and posturing in the PUA world too.

“Oh, I bag hot chicks all the time. Game works on any girl.”
“Well go get this one”
“nah… I only do it for students at a seminar.”
“How come you couldn’t get that one…”
“Well if a chick doesn’t respond to your game, then she’s probably a stuck up bitch who wasn’t worth it anyway.”

Admit that “game” is just a different strategy for getting chicks than, say, working as a photographer for models and being a super nice guy. If you’d like, I could put my money on the photographer (assuming he works with a lot of models) while you put your money on a douchebag with spiky hair who’s out to get laid. And the bet would be not how many women they can get laid with (douchebag would win by just lowering his standards) but by how many 9s and 10s they can get.

2. Out of curiosity, what effect does height have on ability to game? Short and ugly seem to be uttered in the same breath, but what about people who are short but “average” looking?

I don’t think height plays that big of a role. Being tall (but not too tall) is part of the feminine ideal of masculine beauty, and having height gives you some natural social dominance among men and women by accident of genetics (people must look up to you if they face you for eye contact when you talk, exposing their necks, a sign of submission), which is also appealing to women. However, being ideal is not necessary. You will never be a male ’10’ if you are short, but not being a ’10’ is probably something you have already reconciled yourself with at around age 12. I’m about 5’10” which is not within the range of being ‘tall’ at all, but is tall enough to not have to arch my neck to meet the eyes of other men, and tall enough for most women to have to crane their neck to meet my eyes when I speak with them. I’m probably better than ‘average’ but only up to the margin of ‘cute’ in my facial features.

I have two friends, one being 6’2″, which is in my opinion about the perfect height. Another is 6’6″, which is officially ‘too tall’, but also sort of serves as a natural peacocking because he is tall enough to draw attention to himself in a crowd and have women comment on his height frequently. Being shorter than my two frequent cohorts,
I try not to look at them straight on as they talk, and keep them at a distance so that I can meet their eyes by leaning my body back rather than tilting my neck.

This tactic should work for a shorter man than I as well, when dealing with men of average height. That casual slouch should slightly conceal shortness to some degree as well; just don’t do it all the time or you will look obvious and buffoonish.

If you’ve read The Game, the author Neil Strauss is officially in the short camp, and only average looking; ugly according to some but I don’t personally think so. According to his own book he had a strength in talking small, playful banter and being ‘funny’, which isn’t surprising for someone in his line of work to have those qualities. He had at least that one essential quality of ‘Game’ down before applying any methodology and was able to overcome a physical handicap with great proficiency.

Even if you never meet a fantasized feminine ‘ideal’ you can still get women attracted, and if your presence of mind and ability to get compliance out of a women are strong enough they will project idealized qualities onto you that probably don’t actually exist, and rationalize away your actual flaws.

If you’ve ever been in love, or infatuated you know exactly what I’m talking about. A 7 to you, might have seemed a 9 or even 10 at the time. Looking back at your ex-girlfriends through the years, it’s probably hard to get into that same frame of mind that saw these women as so desirable once upon a time, because you are no longer bonded to them. I believe that women are even more susceptible to this self delusion than men are (although, they also seem a lot more capable of deluding themselves right out of it as well unfortunately).

If you are a sub-human male (read: David Alexander), then tight game will bring less rejection by one’s right hand and better masturbation sessions.

a few bangs per year with non-obese 4s and 5s

People want to have sex with 4s and 5s? With the lights on? I thought we invented porn so, you know, we wouldn’t have to use them for sex.

In descending order of importance, here are the male attractiveness traits that women desire in men:

Psychosocial dominance (game). -> I have none!
High status/fame. -> I’m only famous for being sub-human at work…
Personality (passion/charisma/humor). -> I’m as passionate as loose-leaf!
Wealth. -> My wealth is equivalent to the GDP of a farming village in Africa!
Good looks/height/muscularity. -> No good looks, below average height, and my nephew and niece can pick me up, while in the inverse is not true.
Cleverness/smarts. -> Cheated through honours classes, failed out of two colleges, bare associate’s degree! Can you say genius?
Dependability/reliability. -> I am flakier than than a JAP from Plainview!
Sexual prowess. -> The only orgasms I can deliver to a woman are those of the fake kind…

but he will discover a world of fuckathon fun among 45 year old divorcees of mediocre attractiveness

He’s worked far too hard to have to endure sex with mediocre looking 45 year old divorcees. I’d rather give him my porn collection…

Do they still show some fur?

Obama will ban unshaven pussy in women under the age of 40 in 2011. Mark my words!

Game is orthogonal to male-oriented alpha traits. It is predicated on the discovery that feral females do not value the same traits as men, or civilized females. Worse, feral females are susceptible to ridiculous bullshit, well performed.

Read, if you can bear it, the collected works of “Tyler Durden”; they are floating around in PDF form somewhere. The behaviors he describes as successful with women are not applicable to the world of men.

That recent blog war was a waste of resources, like most wars, but also occasionally fun.

I think, deep down, what Lawrence Auster objected to was the crowing of some random guy at Mangan’s or somewhere about how the HBD/game theory crowd would replace the tired old ‘SoCons’ who had “obviously” failed et cetera, et cetera. I think that, more than anything, set the Austersphere to DEFCON 1 and launch on warning. Look at it from his perspective: A bunch of mouthy young kids, probable atheists and/or Darwinists to boot, start knocking him and his worldview—there’s enough strikes there to get a third of the way through an entire inning. The sort of exchanges that we wound up with were inevitable—had I been a few years younger and more inclined to participate in a blog war, I probably would have manned the battlements with Team Auster.

I don’t think Mr. Auster’s afraid of change, at least not in the manner you describe. The man clearly seems to want a general re-ordering of society, but he sees his priorities as almost diametrical opposites of the so-called “biocon” agenda. Whether he sees a need for his own personal change in the manner you describe is a separate inquiry, one I’m not competent to make.

Speaking from the position of someone who agrees far more with the Auster viewpoint than I don’t and sees value in some of the concepts discussed here, I wanted to say, “You’re not helping” to a lot of the various combatants taking potshots at people who could be plausible, if not natural, allies.

Meanwhile, the watch talk is valuable but I balk at paying hundreds if not thousands of dollars for a watch—if I can’t replace it immediately, it’s a capital asset, not an accessory and therefore I can’t use it without worrying about damaging it.

I continue to maintain that Moderate competence in Game is easily worth about the same SMV as having a net worth of $2 million. This is a rough estimate, and individual circumstances will vary. Furthermore, no one can tax your Game, swindle you out of Game, or steal your Game in divorce court (as long as you don’t let this sap your confidence as a human being).

I define moderate competence in Game as the following 5 steps :

***1) Regular, consistent, and somewhat effortless ability to do approaches to women who are 8s or higher. This is the most important point of all, as without approaches, you will not create the opportunities to practice ANY other part of Game. This is also the filter that blocks most novices from ever progressing.
2) Ability to qualify the woman, as well as identify and pass her own tests easily. Be the first to end the phonecall, always be leaving, other time constraints, etc. The ability to use the occasional well-placed neg is valuable too.
3) Ability to run comfort and rapport for the requisite 6-8 hours. Have a lot of interesting stories, games, and other things to run on her.
***4) Ability to bridge from Day 1 to Day 2, and minimize flakes. This is important as flakes are frustrating, demoralizing, and discouraging. A lot of guys are very close to the brass ring, but this derails them in their quest for Game.
5) Ability to run competent seduction Game, after you get her alone. This is where Ross Jeffries NLP can be extremely useful (but not mandatory by any means).

1) and 4) cause the biggest frustration, paralysis, and ‘giving up’, hence the asterisks. But a man who becomes pretty good at these 5 points is ahead of 98% of all men, and is on par with a Beta who has $2 million in net worth (and is ahead of such a Beta if that Beta has no game and is suckered easily by feminine manipulation).

“Anti-Gamers” (of either sex) claim that those men whom participate in the “art” are manipulative women haters with a chip on both shoulders.

When in reality, it is simply a process of sorting the wheat from the chaff.

Why should prospective relationships be any different from any other area of life?

A basic analogy would be seeking out a job.

When you go for a new job, you go to an interview and you (try) to sell yourself. Bascially you “act” the part to a varying degree…even if you “live” the part mostly.

Of course before you even line up that interview, you “check out” the other job adverts and decide if you will even make an “approach of interest”.

Just as there are lots of jobs you are not interested in, so there are lots of women you will be not interested in (fat, ugly, drama queens for example). You may even go for an interview for a job you will not accept it even if offered it (even if the interviewers end up thinking you are the bees knees), but you learn from it, gain expereiene and move on.

Sure, with “Game” there are human emotions involved – and I think this is where Game gets its bad name.

But hold on – again looking at my job interview analogy……just look at the emotions involved in seeking out a job. In some instances your whole lifestyle (if not your life in some instances) may depend on you getting a particular job – and your fate is held in the hands of one (or more) interviewers.

What then when people are not successful in getting a particular job – are the interviewers held accountable? No.
That’s just life. Life is often hard, brutal, and cruel. You didn’t measure up…better luck next tiem sonny.

Why would / should the whole male / female dynamic be any different?

Well of course it is not. Men and Women have been hurting” each other emotionally forever, and will continue to do so – game or no game. Yes – it can be hard, it can be brutal, and it can be considered “cruel”……which is probably why they get so much hate mail (I would think?).

But I don’t think any chick ever died from being “gamed”.
I know a few that have died from being in a relationship with a “nice guy” turned maniac….I know because I read about it almost every day in the news…..”Quiet man kills wife in fit of rage”…..”he was such a nice guy too” said the neighbours.

You have read these headlines before haven’t you?

“Game” of course isn’t the exclusivity of men. In fact (they may even agree) there are more “natural gamers” amongst females than males.

We sell ourselves, we “act” in every area of our lives every single day……again – just why would seeking out and attracting the oppostie sex be any different?

I think the word “act” needs explanation too. Because the best “actors” in a cinematic or stage atmosphere, believe in what they are doing. Their “acting” becomes who they are. It becomes natural, it becomes second nature. It is no longer an “act” at all.

So it is in life.

And anyway – “All the worlds a stage”, wrote Shakespeare.
Never truer words written.

Todd White’s head is exploding during his lonely Friday night – as he thinks :

“I offered to save you Game adherents from your chauvinistic pseudo-religion, since Game has no value within serious relationships and sells you short as men. All evidence that Game helps people in monogamous relationships will be ignored by me. But you people are not smart enough to see it my way, so I will stop trying to save you from becoming addicted to Game.”

Game by itself cannot win, because Game is not the whole story. Not all men want to seduce women in their thousands and ten thousands. The epistemic promise of Game wins only when it provides for beta providers. The modern woman is feral, and for most men she has not left even Hope in the box.

1) Introverted, reclusive men (usually Asians) who have solid looks, income, and other credentials, but just can’t make it happen, as they think that there is some magical threshold on the Beta provider axis that, once crossed, makes things happen. They never stop to think “if my income is in the Top 1% for my age, yet I still cannot get even a top-25% woman, then clearly I have to revise my assumption that more income will help me get laid.”

Game liberates them from this hamster wheel IF they are OTBs (Outside the Box Thinkers).

2) Naturals who never had approach anxiety, but who may not have known all the best techniques of kino escalation, the 7-hour rule, etc. They can double or triple their success almost immediately with the fine-tuning of Game (again, since they won’t waste months in the Approach Anxiety that derails introverted Game students).

3) Divorced men, who can benefit from Game as part of the therapeutic process. He may not get laid that much if his Game is not tight, but just getting the burden lifted off his shoulders after what he has gone through, can move a lot of men out of depression and suicide.

The less a man fits one of these three categories, the less he can get from Game.

Game capitalizes on the weaknesses of feral females, partly using the characterstics of manliness, what Machiavelli meant when he used the word virtu, or what the ancient Greeks meant by arete. Following C.S. Lewis, we might call it “chest”, as betas are men who lack it.

I judge that another major component of Game is turning women’s own nature against them. “Game” is a fit name because we turn their own tricks against them to win (we meaning you).

I have read the collected comments of Dave in Hawaii, and I am heartened by them, though they amount to little more than assertions that Game has worked in his own marriage. The libertines who practice Game have unassailable empirical knowledge of the ways of females–within a narrow scope, and limited to certain aims.

I had a date last night with a woman I got off craigslist. I’m middle aged, at least decent looking, have a good career (but am currently unemployed, but lying about it) and dress well. She was middle aged, no fat but pretty harsh looking. Willing to be kinky and fuckable. I thought I did OK and was looking forward to some nasty.

I get home and I have an email she’s not interested. Fuck! many times Fuck! Frankly it was really depressing. A big part of dating is currency. Get out of practice and you need a lot of dates to get back into practice. I could figure out what I did wrong eventually but I don’t think I can take the humiliation.

Failure is harder on some people than others. To be a salesman you need very thick skin. I’m very thin skinned so I was a lousy salesman. A big barrier to learning game is dealing with a lot of failure. To get the most out of game you would ideally start with a positive childhood environment and good psychological health, and practive and learn *young*, no later than high school.

If you’re 25 and an omega or lesser beta- do for yourself what you can, but a result you can live with may be out of reach. If you’re 30 and not getting what you want, I say go foreign. You will need to work yourself up to the level of provider beta, but you will find plenty of nice looking foreign women for whom that is just fine.

The problem foreign women have is most guys don’t give up on American women and go foreign until they are in their 40’s, and that is really too old for a 22 yo foreign hottie. If I had had any sense I would have realized much much sooner I was not going to transform myself and spent my money and effort overseas.

I have a couple of foreign candidates, and if they don’t work out there are plenty more.

I don’t think height plays that big of a role. Being tall (but not too tall) is part of the feminine ideal of masculine beauty, and having height gives you some natural social dominance among men and women by accident of genetics (people must look up to you if they face you for eye contact when you talk, exposing their necks, a sign of submission), which is also appealing to women. However, being ideal is not necessary. You will never be a male ‘10′ if you are short, but not being a ‘10′ is probably something you have already reconciled yourself with at around age 12. I’m about 5′10″ which is not within the range of being ‘tall’ at all, but is tall enough to not have to arch my neck to meet the eyes of other men, and tall enough for most women to have to crane their neck to meet my eyes when I speak with them. I’m probably better than ‘average’ but only up to the margin of ‘cute’ in my facial features.

I have two friends, one being 6′2″, which is in my opinion about the perfect height. Another is 6′6″, which is officially ‘too tall’, but also sort of serves as a natural peacocking because he is tall enough to draw attention to himself in a crowd and have women comment on his height frequently. Being shorter than my two frequent cohorts,
I try not to look at them straight on as they talk, and keep them at a distance so that I can meet their eyes by leaning my body back rather ”

this is total bunk, most of hollywood’s leading men pitt, efron, clooney, depp and even beckham … none are over 6 feet and all are admired for being handsome 10’s all over the world

if you are average or slightly below average in height but have great features and even style, you’ll clean up

Ive found this statement to be pretty much true. Even if a guy has a beautiful gay face, but is a wallflower……………he will still lose out to the loud average-looking guy with lots of friends at the bars in meeting and number-closing women.

“yours in Christ” …….. ROFLMAO

Lucifer,
There are “short men” today because lots of hot short women are attractive enough that many men will have kids with them. The kids take on their momma’s short genes often and make short sons. Most really short men do have a harder time finding mates because so many cute, but short women date much taller men.

As for you declaration that “within a few generations” your offspring will look nothing like you, I beg to differ. Greek statues do not look much different from average Europeans today without the beards. The Egyptians paintings of Semites pretty much look like middle-easterners of today, and some of those are 4000 years old. We have plenty of paintings dating from the 17th century (300+ years ago) and other than the fact that we are a bit taller now, the people dont really look much different. If all the races start radically interbreeding, then you will have a point……………….and they will likely end up manufacturing some brownish-proto human race with facial and physical traits mixed from all of them. That really might happen over the next 1000 years, so who knows?

“One guy is wealthy from his own real estate business and says he has no problem getting what he wants from other men in boardrooms. Another has a job that flies him across the country regularly and is so good at gambling and making money he gets thrown out of places. Another is a combat-tested war veteran, meaning he knows how to face down and conquer other men too.”

The real estate guy was intimate with a dozen or more non-pros. Depending on how many of those were relationships, and the average duration of those relationships, he could have been consistently getting action for most of his adult life. The excerpt you quoted about the broker doesn’t mention his history with women. The “combat-tested war veteran” clearly has guts, but is not necessarily a leader of men. He could have been just a grunt following orders and not giving them.

“you should be able to see that the dominance that women prefer is the same social dominance that will make a man leader of the pack amongst males.”
Nah. Some of the best seducers were men who had no interest in leading men. It’s a primary characteristic of the ‘rake.’ Porfirio Rubirosa for one.

I feel the same way – I feel a need to dominate women, but am content with being an equal among men. There are the guys who are dominant among men, but aren’t the most successful with women.

*******

You are content with “being an equal among men?” Women want the leaders of men. They want the men who can take home MORE than their fair share of the kill. (That’s the definition of alpha male, in a nutshell.) In other words, they are most attracted to the man who can dominate other men. Insofar that a woman is attracted to a man who dominates her, it is an extension of her perception that this man also dominates other men in their given population– Or else that this man has the capability of dominating other men. Whether he is actually interested in leading men isn’t relevant; what matters is that he easily can (or at least she thinks so).

So — Whatever qualities that male leaders have that put them in that position, that compel other men to look at them as leaders, that make other men defer to them — those are the same characteristics that attract women.

Sometimes yes. But women who are feeling slutty don’t need leaders of men. They need someone who can fan the flames of the sexual passion. And this happens through a personal and physical connection, and not through leading men.

Chicks do get a little turned on by guys who appear to dominate other men.
But the serious vaginal flooding occurs when chicks see really hot women crawling, stumbling, bleeding from multiple injuries, back towards the guy who so obviously dominates them.
That is what really rings your bell.
When you were a kid in school, did they ever take you on a field trip to a slaughter-house?

Game is not a revolution, men. It is not the path to save society nor is it the road to perdition. Game is where pretty lies perish.

Game may appear to be revolutionary to the last couple of generations of men, who were raised during this age of feminism. However, if you begin reduce the essence of game, the neg, social proof, qualfication, compliance, and body language all fade into the background and you are left with one pure distilled quality: manly dominace. Our grandfathers knew how to act like men, and fortunately for them, they did not have a bunch of radical feminist telling them to act like new-age sensitive betas to get the girls. They were even luckier to not have these left-wing bra burners, teaching young women to give up their natural feminity in pursuit sexual “equality” (i.e. dominance). Game is the conscious recognition that if one wishes to attract a woman, one better act like a man. This was a fairly natural assumption before the advent of radical feminism, which is relatively new and a byproduct of the Left.

Game will neither save nor destroy Western civilization. Many bloggers in the HBD sphere point to the ever increasing numbers of out-of-wedlock births as harbinger of societal collapse, and they are quite right to do so. Inner city slums and rural trailer parks are great examples of this blight. The social cons believe that Game will only exacerbate this trend; while gamers seem to believe that Game can somehow help stave off our inevitable collapse into social anarchy. Both sides need to recognize the cause of the dissolution of the family unit know in the West for several hundred years. The cause is the rise of the welfare state, and Game got nothing to do with it. The modern welfare state is, once again, a byproduct of the Left. Radical Feminism is a symptom of the Welfare State and not the cause. Without the support of the Welfare State, feminism could not exsist as we know it.

Game is shining the light of truth on all the pretty lies we were taught for the last two generations about the nature of men and women. Game is the anti-radical feminism; the male equivalent to the very pretty lie of a push-up bra. It is a counterrevolution to the societal change brought about by the rise of the leftist-welfare-state in Western Civilization.

Game can be demostrated empirically, unlike most pretty lies. I’ve seen the evidence, especially when a married man starts using it. Whereas it is a wonderful tool for meeting and bedding the fairer sex, it is absolutely amazing and gratifying to hear about a married brother who starts to use some Game in his home and receives results almost immediately (more sandwiches and more sex are just the beginning). The power that manly dominance brings to LTR’s is nothing short of a Come-to-Jesus moment for these guys. The confidence Game brings to the single/divorced brother snowballs into more confidence/dominance, which in turn attracts more pussy like moths to an ever brighter phallic-shaped flame.

And, CH, keep preaching the truth and keep knocking down those pretty lies.

Apparently he has underestimated the Om3ga/Lesser Beta mindset. If anything those who fall for the equalist line are those who think every guy can be a stud with just a few tricks up their sleeves. Actually, ‘game’ is really for greater Betas who are hard down on their luck because no one told them the tricks of the trade. Om3gas and Lesser Betas aren’t strong enough for ‘game’. I’m sure many know losers who have the knowledge but also the defeatist mindset of D. Alexander.

Great article, however I think you either understate the potential gains from mastering game or you might be too harsh on the ratings you’re giving women. 8s should be no problem for the garden variety provider beta with a strong mastery of game, though perhaps his taste and judgement in women is harsher than us normal humans.

As a cultured, refined, professional South Asian woman my concept of “lifetime partner” is “spouse”.

Please explain. I’m out of the loop.
”””””””””””””

Yea that is the way to be as a woman you are on the right track. This game thing for men mostly. So yea the guy has one lifetime partner but then can have other partners in life as well. Woman can’t because when she gets pregnant by one of other guys she is seeing it will cause some problems unless the guy is cool with it. How many guys gonna be ok with it though. What the fuck would you commit to one woman for if she was gonna stray. No point to it. So yea woman should be doing one commitment of their life to a man once they find the right one hopefully get lucky not easy to find a good woman or man only 3 million millionaires in us should give you an indication of quality.

”””””””””””””””””””Lucifer
It is funny how humans think their BS is so meaningful (and relative reproductive success matters), when you consider that:

a] Humans are mortal.

b] “you” are a mixture of your mind, chance and luck. It is, as such, unique and not genetically transmissible.

c] Your descendants will be unlike you within a few generations.

d] You could be the most loved, hated or despised human- ultimately, it won’t matter as “you” will die.

e] There have been species/ groups that survived over 300 million years (and many extinctions) but ultimately ‘found’ the right extinction.

f] and all of this occurs on the 3rd spherical rock from a M-class star (more than the 3rd generation) in a galaxy that only one of the billions that we know of.

Does it matter?
””””””””””””””””’

Nope it sure doesn’t in long run but if you are gonna stay here. If you are gonna put in the time till death. What will you do till then? Make some goals achieve them. What else? It will matter to “””””””””YOU””””””””””” while you are here. It will matter to “””””””YOU””””””” where you are at in each phase of your life.

””””””’Truth,
The only key “game” element that could possibly work in the workplace is actively undermining your managers and co-workers as much as you can in a subtle and sneaky way.

I’d like to hear what anyone else has done.
””””””””””
You don’t have to undermine people. You don’t have to be a jerk to make it. You just need to save money. Spend less than you make. That is all. Simple shit not like rocket science at all. (oh and move to another country to find your woman to spend your life with that doesn’t feel entitled to you doing certain things for her but is appreciative of what you do and isn’t all fucked up from bad programming ie. TV every day)

The only key “game” element that could possibly work in the workplace is actively undermining your managers and co-workers as much as you can in a subtle and sneaky way

Nah. I agree with Gunslinger. That’s a nuclear option for a feral supervisor and such. Elements of get-ahead workplace Game include:

– never outshine the Master (the fastest way to be fired or margnalized is to be seen as a threat or a nuisance by those above you, and a loose cannon by your peers)

– be hardworking but impudent (deliver the goods but with a workplace-tailored cocky/funny; don’ t be overtly deferential because as with any other social context, you’re still swimming with sharks humans and don’t want to be seen as weak or lacking in confidence)

– cultivate an air of indispensability

– guard your reputation for effectiveness and competence with your life

That’s the thing the wife doesn’t have to undermine anyone and she is getting ahead of the “game” Life is simple or it can be. Just don’t get so many fucking monthly bills. I went and got a cell phone sis is like get the 45 per month plan. I get the one that the minutes last all year and are prepaid so I don’t have to pay any bill. Just if I use it up ok it is gone and I get more. F a monthly bill.

””””””’Truth,
The only key “game” element that could possibly work in the workplace is actively undermining your managers and co-workers as much as you can in a subtle and sneaky way.

I’d like to hear what anyone else has done.
””””””””””

I disagree. Social proof, visibility, and having the guts to go against the grain get you further in the work place than not doing those things. Just putting your head down and doing your job was a key to success is missing half the picture. NOT applying game to work is missing half the picture.

ok, I guess I need to revise my list of things that I should look for that I want to avoid as problems…

1.) guys who have 300+ lifetime partners while still expecting the woman they decide to commit to long term to have a max of 3 partners over their lifetime

2.) guys who have threesome and orgies as goals in life they plan to achieve

3.) guys who make light of what is termed as “a well-deserved and properly timed backhand to the face” they don’t have a problem doing to their girlfriend, but consider largely off-limits with a wife because of the future legal ramifications that this could bring

4.) Avoid socializing with women who get all worked up about being categorized in an undesireable group (like the fat chicks group) and make every effort to try and drag other women down with their sinking ship. This is a good time to make sure you have your own life-boat and survival kit. Don’t want to be the only female on an island of men with unreasonably specific expectations that are placed upon you.
…Even if it would totally count as having an army of ugly friends that every cute chick assembles for the purpose of being the standout wherever they go.

1. What does the PUA community think of internet dating? Seems a tad…paleolithic to go out to bars looking to pick up, especially in this age. I get that it’s all about the hunt, and that picking up at a bar is infinitely cooler, but I submit you are leaving pussy on the table, so to speak, if you neglect internet dating, lots of pussy.

2. How do PUAs manage the political thing with women? Virtually all of them around here, particuarly higher class ones, are militantly left wing and feminist. In my experience broads want to change the subject very, very quickly when I start to play back. How does one manage sharing a drink, let alone one’s bed, with creatures who deeply believe men and white people are evil?

3. What about instead of running game having a kinky dom/sub relationship instead? I can’t be the only one who’s noticed seven out of every three women enjoy being tied up/choked/slapped/treated like a whore. My thinking is that it’s a woman’s world nowadays but in the 4 by 6 confines of one’s bed it’s a man’s world, as good a deal as we’re going to get in this feminist age.

How does one manage sharing a drink, let alone one’s bed, with creatures who deeply believe men and white people are evil?

99% of white women don’t think this at all, and the “militant” left wing non-lesbain white women do not hold their PC views with any kind of deep sincerety. PC is a superficial fashion statement for women. For example, very few women with options have LTRs with non-white men, particularly with poor non-white men.

How do you deal with their nevertheless annoyng PC? for pump & dumps, just ignore it alltogether. For LTR/marriage, filter out any left wing women, or convert them to your worldview.

Whatever you do, don’t debate women the way you’d debate a man. Best to drop a single-phrase stinkbomb that will “taint” some leftie view they hold as uncool/creepy.

CH really -should- write a novel, even if it has nothing to do with game. Reading “Anna Karenin” by Tolstoy was one of the great pleasures (outside the bedroom) of my life. A truly great psychological novel is in CH. Whether or not he wants to write it is up to him, but its certainly there.

Note: Someone posted some very interesting nutritional information under the moniker, “z”, which Ive been using. I really enjoyed his posts, but they were not from me. Im sure some readers of the forum thought they were my thoughts. Even though I pretty much agreed with everything he wrote, they weren’t mine. He’s right about our “phood”. It ages us, gives us chronic inflammation, gives us chronic conditions, gives us mood swings, fucks with our hormones, and is generally not nutrititious at all. Its processed until nutrients have to be artificially injected back into it. The thing is, many of the necessary enzymes and other factors that were naturally present almost certainly helped your digestive system process and absorb the natural nutrients that were there beforehand. We evolved eating meat, nuts, fruit, berries, and “some” veggies. We have only been eating bread and drinking large amounts of milk (and sugar) for the last few thousand years. Anything that is inflammatory to the body (sugar, un-natural artifical sweetners, bread, pasta, milk, potatos, nightshade vegtables like eggplant and tomatoes)……probably really aren’t all that good for you in the long run.

someone wrote:
================
– never outshine the Master (the fastest way to be fired or margnalized is to be seen as a threat or a nuisance by those above you, and a loose cannon by your peers)

– be hardworking but impudent (deliver the goods but with a workplace-tailored cocky/funny; don’ t be overtly deferential because as with any other social context, you’re still swimming with sharks humans and don’t want to be seen as weak or lacking in confidence)

– cultivate an air of indispensability

– guard your reputation for effectiveness and competence with your life
================

this has similarities in the club, compare:

– socially be nice to people (such as your target’s friends)

– have substance but flirt and be irreverent (cocky funny, teasing etc.)

– bring massive value (this is the hardest thing on a cold approach because she lived without you all her life, it’s unlikely you will become indispensable)

– have friends talk you up and AMOG the AMOGs.

Whoo.

Of course if you are going out to a club to get laid, all you need is to look and smell good, and a many horny chicks will grind against you. Go up and meet them and dance, and escalate moment to moment.

It’s not hard to do, just be confident of where you are going.

Although you could say that’s game, it’s really just letting go and being a slut 😛

…and 1 more 2 part question: does game work on HAFs (hot Asian females)? How does one tailor game to HAFs? Game seems somewhat specific to white chicks, what with their neuroticism and whatnot, I don’t see it applying to Asian broads, being far less neurotic.

“99% of white women don’t think this at all, and the “militant” left wing non-lesbain white women do not hold their PC views with any kind of deep sincerety.”

Only if. Ah, I see what you’re doing, it’s one reason among a few that I have not a bit of contempt for the PUA community. You’re pretending it – the war on western civilization, men, white people, etc. – isn’t happing. Acknowledging that sort of thing is for Herbs, right? Real Alphas go with the flow, rage *with* the machine.

You cunts are first up against the wall when the revolution goes down, for collaborating with the enemy.

GS: the essentials of Game are universal. Approach, get her interested, make her invest in interaction, comfort, etc.

“Acknowledging that sort of thing is for Herbs, right? Real Alphas go with the flow, rage *with* the machine.”

I acknowledge it, all right, although in my experience these P.C. chicks are some of the biggest hypocrites on Planet Earth. Hang around them long enough and their racism, homophobia and xenophobia will slip through. The insightful man probes beyond social masks.

No one is pretending that the war on western civilisation isn’t happening, but PA is right in that most women only hold these leftist beliefs superficially. It’s enough to make them vote for socialism, but they can’t defend their political positions logically. Therefore, they don’t intentionally hate you, and are fine for short term relationships (but not for marriage). I tend to just change the subject when politics comes up. If I only dated conservative girls, I wouldn’t date at all, because they don’t exist in my city.

PS Speaking of going up against the wall for collaboration with the enemy, who’s the one asking about dating asian chicks? When the revolution comes, I will see you tried for miscegnation.

I’ve been reading and commenting at HBD sites for years, and I’ve reading this site off and on for a couple years as well. What he does is hedge his bets on infusing too much determinism into the actions of others. I think the majority of “HBD quant geeks” wish to read as much determinism as they can in every regression analysis. HBD, as a rule, is naturist in tone, and I too lean toward the naturist interpretation, but that other 30/40/50% environmental influence is significant. Many other naturists attempt to overplay their hand. That’s why you see such a huge deal being made out of a difference of a tenth concerning two correlation coefficients. What should be noted is that “flexibility of personality” could also be heritable so that some percentage of humans are more naturally determined than others. Perhaps the range that we find in social science concerning the split between nature/nurture influence exists because of this. I would actually wager that it would be those with higher g and the Big 5 trait of openness to experience that are more environmentally malleable.

This piggybacks on what Obsidian said about those anti-Gamers who are “reluctant to change.” I think the old concept of “pride” also holds back some men who ought to change, if not only for themselves, but for their women, friends, family, and career goals.

“Game Skeptic” is 100% emblematic of the point I was making about a lot of Men above.

Yo, my Man, this is all about YOU. Not Western Civ, not “miscegenation”, not cows jumping over the Moon, YOU.

It doesn’t surprise me one bit that the vast majority of comments in this thread hasn’t discussed, at all, what Men have done in their own lives to change. So they can be better choices for Women. Nothing. There’s a very important reason why virtually EVERY thread here devolves into what is essentially one big group piss and moan session, and that’s because there’s a whole lot more losers than winners among Men here. There, I’ve said it.

Please, spare me the Hyde Park boilerplate about “society”. Unless you rolling like Soros (read: you got BIG MONEY) so you can basically buy the votes you need to change things, or in some other way in the ear of key Congressmen/Senators, all that rap is bullshit. The laws are not and will not be changed. Fat chicks will not go lacking for Wood. White Women with and without options can and will screw Brothas. And yup, someone out there will screw the Cougars, too.

Meanwhile, you’ll be home, feverishly working it out with the Five Fingers Of Death/Skeletor/Fred Sanford Death Grip. Alone.

This is about YOU. Changing yourself to give yourself better options out there on the dating market. Anything else is only timewasting.

When I first learned about Game I changed quite a bit about myself. I still am. I didn’t piss and moan about the state of the world. Or how Black Men get the shaft. Or why it as certain types of Women should be burned at the stake. Or whatever. I got The Game, Mystery Method, My Secret Life (MAD Game in there, plus tells a lot about Women’s sexual natures in that diary), Pimp by Iceber Slim, The Story Of O and The Art Of Seduction, read em, studied em, basically committed em to memory, and then set out to test what I’d learned. I tested, found out what worked for me and what didn’t, “calibrated” accordingly, wash, rinse, repeat until I got the MFer right. Not once did I whine about “society”.

I find it strangely odd that some of the biggest purveyors for the Free Market and Conservatism are now the biggest cheerleaders for a kind of Affirmative Action for Beta Males. Tough, it ain’t gonna happen, and no one will care if yo can’t hack it in the sexual marketplace. And worse, if you decide to go out ala Sodini or Cho, you’ll simply be labelled a nut who had it coming anyway.

“The next and more important stage in the evolution of Game is for smart, logical, hard-headed nerdy guys to move beyond just figuring out how to persuade girls in bars that they are alphas to figuring out how to persuade men in boardrooms that they are alphas.”

Evolution of game is gaming other men? You are completely wrong. Power and prestige is for the insecure little man who not only isn’t banging the girl he wants but also feels he needs to fake it to other men who also aren’t getting what they want either. There is no self-actualizating in your method, for you will always be needing to “persuade” other people. You’ll always be wanting and empty.

“women who are attracted to men with power, money, and prestige”

Women are attracted to a lot of things, but wage slaving away in a “boardroom” just to get laid is something you’ll only hear from some D.C. idiot who’s trapped in a shitty job with a mountain of debt and needs to back rationalize his lifestyle. If you want the hottest women you’re better off starting a rock band.

“why stop with the conquest of babes in bars when the conquest of the world is waiting?”

“Women are attracted to a lot of things, but wage slaving away in a “boardroom” just to get laid is something you’ll only hear from some D.C. idiot who’s trapped in a shitty job with a mountain of debt and needs to back rationalize his lifestyle.”

Roosh summarized DC to a tee. They should put that quote on every college admissions brochure and student loan application.

Many of these HBD socalled “quant” bloggers-not all but most definitely a majority-are simply Disaffected, Angry White Males, in the main. They are this way because they feel that they’ve been kicked to the curb in just about every way that matters-in school, on the job, and even in love, too. Their Sour Grapeism is quite apparent for all to see.

One of the features of my upcoming blog (launching next month) is to take on the more bellicose parts of the socalled HBDsphere. It’s time someone from the socalled “NAM” side of the aisle weighed in on all things HBD, as well as to challenge the previously unchallenged bloggers of this genre.

One of my targets will be OneSTDV. You all know who he is. In so many ways, he singularly encapsulates all of the bitterness, anger, and borderline hatred, that is a part and parcel of the HBD crowd. His thin patina of respectability and “scientific” presentation belie such an ugly spirit that its little wonder HBD has so much trouble attracting, in his own words, “hot babes”.

The truth, ladies and gentlemen, is that most of the HBDers, and virtually all of the “Cons”, are simply hatin’ on Game. They have no real, practical solutions that would actually work in the realworld, so they spew their bile in the direction of those who dare to want more out of life. HBDers in particular, are hopping mad that their right to the throne has been usurped by dem Darkies. The should get used to it. There’s more where that came from.

I have suggested that the HBDsphere seems to have grown almost in direct proportion to the PUA/Gamesphere, and if my hypothesis is correct, would clearly explain what we’ve been seeing lately in the “blog wars” occuring between the “Cons” and the “Gamers” of late. They are the Bizzarro to our Superman, so to speak.

I’ll have more, a lot more, to say about all this very soon. In the meantime though, just watch how many guys actually talk about the changes they’ve made in their own lives, ala The Game.

Many of these HBD socalled “quant” bloggers-not all but most definitely a majority-are simply Disaffected, Angry White Males, in the main. They are this way because they feel that they’ve been kicked to the curb in just about every way that matters-in school, on the job, and even in love, too. Their Sour Grapeism is quite apparent for all to see.

Nah, Jason Malloy, Ron Guhname and the Epigone all seem to be doing fine in the romance department. There is this assumption that just because a guy isn’t in the community or disagrees with game that he sucks with women. Hell, Will Wilkinson, the guy this post is about has a quite good looking girlfriend.

Also, the quant bloggers often provide a useful corrective to the sometimes one sided perspective presented here.

The evolution of game is to move beyond just figuring out how to persuade girls in bars that they are alphas to figuring out how to persuade men in boardrooms that they are alphas

duh!

because women have poorer judgement, they can be fooled systematically. In a male-dominated workplace other things, like performance and results, matter much more!
__________

Why all the hostility to suggestions that learning to be (or seem) an alpha in the clubs can and should be like learning to be an alpha in the business world? Like I said before, women want leaders of men. Are you trying to justify to yourself your own (perceived or real) inability to be an alpha in the eyes of men? Do you think the alpha males in your workplace got there simply by “results” alone? No — they used game principles on other men in the workplace (including you) to get that promotion, to get that corner office, to close that big deal, etc.

If you are (or look like) an alpha in the eyes of men, you WILL be (or look like) an alpha in the eyes of women. The ease with which you can keep up the alpha “act” or can actually learn it so that you become the alpha is a different story.

Drunken sluts aren’t thinking about leaders of men, so if that’s your target exclusively, disregard the above. No need to work too hard for low-hanging fruit.

“Speaking of going up against the wall for collaboration with the enemy, who’s the one asking about dating asian chicks?”

Ah, well played. I, uh, only asked for academic interest. But seriously, spend a month in Hong Kong and unless you’ve wholly outsourced your thinking to your penis you’ll be as revolted as I was by Asian women; its the best cure for the Asian fetish. They combine the wrath of black women with the shallowness of white women and the lovingkindness of a block of granite.

“White Women with and without options can and will screw Brothas.”

Not on a level playing field they won’t. Right now we’re not allowed to tell them that blacks are 27 times more likely to have the AIDS, and are 9 times more likely to assault them. Hell, we can’t even criticize a fucking health care plan without you crybabies calling us racist. Women would date three toed sloths if the television told them to and right now they are *temporarily* brainwashed by Grey’s Anatomy and such to date black guys.

Affirmative action is another nontrivial factor: women, being greedy, would select a black mate over a white all things being equal, because the black will get promoted because of his race and people will be afraid to criticize him because of his race. Nice advantages to have.

In a fair market we would cream you, Obsidian. Oh, and another thing: black guys are pussies in one on one fights, it’s not part of your culture. Fighting like a man one on one is exclusively a white thing.

All *Aryan* responses to my question, however, were appreciated. Yeah, I meant that, it’s the “New Age” of race relations, get used to it.

Thursday,
Please note in my comments that I said, “most, but not all”. I’m familiar w/the bloggers you mention, but your point doesn’t negate mine about guys like OneSTDV, who, when you really get down to it, just sounds bitter because life wasn’t handed to him on a silver platter.

As for the notion that HBD bloggers don’t get laid, like I said in my comments above, “Beta Prime”, now know simply as “Prime” should speak to that. According to his site, he says he’s a goodlooking guy and did OK w/Women. But as a result of reading The Game recently, he has another point of view, hence the name change.

Hmm.

Also, the HBDsphere is incredibly insular; no one from the other side seems to challenge these guys. That’s another reason why I said a blog like mine is needed.

“Many of these HBD socalled “quant” bloggers-not all but most definitely a majority-are simply Disaffected, Angry White Males, in the main.”

PS a lot of the so called HBD dorks are actually Jewish entryists looking to get their fingers in yet another intellectual pie. They are not “White” in the slightest and in fact are biologically predisposed to hating “White” people, as if I really need to explain that.

I’ve been fantasizing about alphas since I was six years old. Yes, part of the essence of a dominant male is that he is also dominant towards other men. Dominating women is an extension of that personality. A given male might not choose to do well in a male hierarchy, but an alpha usually can.

Some alphas express interpersonal dominance only through indifference and a sense of entitlement. Kevin Federline and Tommy Lee would be examples of this. Hypergamous alphas are the exceptions, not the rule. Such men are usually found with high strung successful women of greater social value. Their way of showing dominance to other men is only by having control of a female of high value.

Normally an alpha has a need to take control of a social setting. The word alpha means the creature on the highest rung of a hierarchy. Women who prefer alphas almost always prefer this kind of man.

If men think you are an Alpha male, like say former Steelers coach Bill Cowher, that does not make you an Alpha to women.

Social dominance for women equals greater assertiveness and power over other men in competition for women. It is vastly different (and alien) to the sort of power-patronage networks that characterize men like Cowher, or the late Bill Walsh, or say former Tampa Bay coach and MNF commenter Jon Gruden.

For women, a z-list celebrity like Russell Brand or Jon Gosselin or so on, is far more desirable than a Gruden, because a Gruden type will create patronage under him, and take care not to humiliate (face-saving) those in his patronage network, while the appeal of a Brand or Gosselin type is the humiliation they can provide to other men. For women, when a man humiliates another man, that is proof of social power. For a man who has power among men, it’s a dumb move to make within one’s circle (creates an enemy).

_______________

Are you kidding me? Jon Gosselin? BLEECHHHH!!!!! Russell Brand? Well, he’s smart and funny and all that, so I wouldn’t kick him out of bed for eating crackers. But don’t put any stock in what I say regarding being an alpha in men’s eyes = alpha in women’s eyes. I’m just a woman, after all.

Oh, and if blacks are such awesome PUAs with white women, why do they see the need to rape over 35,000 of them every year in America?

That’s a huge number.

We rape fewer than a dozen of their women every year; perhaps if blacks learned some “tight game” they wouldn’t have to rape so many White women and could actually have sex with them consensually? Hey, you should start a non-profit for “inner city youths” to teach them Game and steer them away from a life of raping White women.

“White Women with and without options can and will screw Brothas.”
– The Obsidian

GS: Not on a level playing field they won’t. Right now we’re not allowed to tell them that blacks are 27 times more likely to have the AIDS, and are 9 times more likely to assault them. Hell, we can’t even criticize a fucking health care plan without you crybabies calling us racist.

O: OK, so perhaps you can explain why, in a very well known college town like mine, Philly, the White female students are just as likely to go out with White guys as Black ones? Mind you, we’re talking about Villanova, St. Joe’s, UPenn, Temple, you name it. That’s about as “level a playing field” as it can get, right? They’re all there on the college campus, together…and yet, a lot of White female students WILL choose to go out with the Black Male students.

Care to explain?

O: Actually, I have very deep concerns about Obama’s healthcare plan. And I’m Black. That has nothing to do w/what appears to be racially motivated criticism of the Man, though.

GS: Women would date three toed sloths if the television told them to and right now they are *temporarily* brainwashed by Grey’s Anatomy and such to date black guys.

O: Uh huh, that’s why you suck in the dating/mating market…Ooookaaay…

GS: Affirmative action is another nontrivial factor: women, being greedy, would select a black mate over a white all things being equal, because the black will get promoted because of his race and people will be afraid to criticize him because of his race. Nice advantages to have.

O: Affirmative Action is a scapregoat to explain away why guys like you haven’t been successful. White Women benefit from AA far and away more than Black folks, and you know it. If you’re really down with it, you’d be for kicking White Women off the AA dole and to the curb.

GS: In a fair market we would cream you, Obsidian.

O: Really? I propose a challenge then-I challenge you to a Test of Game. One on one, since you say Black Men can’t hang in such things. You down?

GS: Oh, and another thing: black guys are pussies in one on one fights, it’s not part of your culture. Fighting like a man one on one is exclusively a white thing.

O: Uh huh. Then perhaps you can explain why I mopped the floor w/TWO Men both of whom were taller than me, unarmed. They both were sent to the hospital.

GS: All *Aryan* responses to my question, however, were appreciated. Yeah, I meant that, it’s the “New Age” of race relations, get used to it.

O: Whateva. Holla back with some Field Reports, and let’s get the Game Duel on the road…

All else being equal, black men tend to have better game than white men. Put a random white guy up against a random black guy with the same IQ and annual income and you would do well to bet on the black guy getting the girl. But all else isn’t usually equal, so black guys on the whole actually don’t do that well with white and asian women.

Obsidian – I’ve just discovered ch and the other blogs discussed. You’re one of the best commentators here. If you’re going to start a blog then don’t waste it on just talking to other bloggers – you can do that in their comments sections. Talk to the rest of the world.

The Apex Alpha of the HBD-bloggers graced this post with his presence. It was cute to see you all scurrying over to set him straight on game. “I’ll never forget the day i had the attention of STEVE … swoon….” hehehe .

I don’t get why so many people on this blog have this childlike desire for Daddy-Approval of game from Larry Auster. Larry Auster is out to save Western Civ ( or at least his antiquarian idolization of it). Why should he approve of a practice that , you have to admit, enables female promiscuity, and takes a kind of state of nature as its assumption, when the goal for Auster-ites is to get back out of the state of nature? CH is about making hay of decay – that ain’t what Auster is about.

Thursday,
I think you’re only revealing your ow interests, which is fine. But they don’t represent the HBDsphere as a whole; there’s also Half Sigma, FeministX and of course, OneSTDV.

“Game Skeptic”:
Replies below:
GS: Oh, and if blacks are such awesome PUAs with white women, why do they see the need to rape over 35,000 of them every year in America?

That’s a huge number.

O: I never made the claim that Black Men “were such awesome PUAs”, be it with White Women or anyone else. As for the why’s and wherefores of crime, I think you might want to take it up with a Criminologist.

GS: We rape fewer than a dozen of their women every year; perhaps if blacks learned some “tight game” they wouldn’t have to rape so many White women and could actually have sex with them consensually?

O: Perhaps, I don’t know; I’ve never raped any Woman, regardless of color. In any event, you seem to place a lot of importance on the comings and goings of Black guys. GS, let me ask you-what are YOU doing to improve yourself? What’s your score? What kind of Women are you looking to attract? How old are you?

GS: Hey, you should start a non-profit for “inner city youths” to teach them Game and steer them away from a life of raping White women.

O: That’s not a bad idea, actually, though most Women have more to fear from White Men than Black Men. I know that doesn’t fit the woe is me script you and others peddle in, but its the truth.

“Game Skeptic”
Evidently you don’t know how I write; I refer to all Men that way. Again, I have my reservations about the Healthcare reforms Obama advocates. But there does seem to be a bit of racial animus on the part of his loudest detractors. This I don’t mind-Politics in America has always been a racial spoils game. Instead of sweeping it under the rug, I instead favor a full throated airing of these and other concerns, including a real debate.

Now, let’s get back to the topic at hand:

Have you, Game Skeptic, read The Game and Mystery Method? If so, what are your thoughts? And if not, why?

What’s your score, GS? How old are you? What kind of Women would you like to attract?

I’m just outside Philly, and my experience jives with Obsidians re: black men, white women (and Asian women for that matter – many 1st and 2nd gen Korean women date and marry black men, there are tons of half black/half Korean people my age and younger in the area).

At least around here, there is absolutely no disadvantage in being a black guy if you want to seduce/date/marry young white women. You don’t have to be attractive or sucessful, either, you just have to have some charm – aka game? (which most young black guys I know have in spades).

Anyway, all my white female friends except one would not exclude a black man as a sexual/romantic partner, and all but the same one (and I – but I’ve been off the market since 19) have slept with/dated at least one black man before.

FWIW there are 3 young couples, black man/white woman, in my current immediate neighborhood (within a coupel blocks) in my super-white burb- all are married with at least one child. And of course there are plenty of white single moms with children with black fathers.

Different story for black women/white men, of course.. although I have known several couples I see them out and about much more rarely.

“Obsidian – I’ve just discovered this and the other blogs discussed. You’re one of the best commentators here. If you’re going to start a blog then don’t waste it on just talking to other bloggers – you can do that in their comments sections. Talk to the rest of the world.”

O: Thanks, Searching. And oh, don’t worry, my own blog won’t be a “talking about everybody else” thing. But I do want to respond to some of the deeply problematic things I see around the blogosphere. I’m thinking that I might devote one day a week to that, and the rest of the week to other things, like Game, Current Events and the like, from my own perspective.

I’m really excited about it, and hope thins go well. I’ve selected what I think is an interesting launch date, have an outline worked out, and have concluded some important business the other day, so the lane looks clear. Wish me luck!

I get hit on by black dudes every damned day. Black guys rarely have any game. Black guys also don’t need any game.

Once I was on my way to visit my boyfriend while in a long distance relationship. I got off the train with my suitcase and walked towards his house. A black dude came up to me and told me he could tell I was going to visit a guy and that this guy wasn’t treating me well because he didn’t come to get me at the train. The black dude gave me his number and told me to call him at any point if my boyfriend was treating me badly. He said he would get me and kick my boyfriend’s ass. And this dude was pretty big.

Anyways, that’s how black dudes are. They do not verbally express dominance towards women, they do it with their general extroversion, lack of fear of rejection, body language and willingness to fight other guys.

A white guy who negs you will look witty and confidence. A black dude who negs you will make you clutch your purse. Game is overkill in a black dude. Women already fear them. Game just makes them scary.

Awesome! a white nationalist with a sense of humor. Gig would approve.

Right now we’re not allowed to tell them that blacks are 27 times more likely to have the AIDS, and are 9 times more likely to assault them. Hell, we can’t even [blah blah]

But now he’s back to loser whining.

black guys are pussies in one on one fights, it’s not part of your culture. Fighting like a man one on one is exclusively a white thing.

I’ve been in a fight with a thuggish black guy, slightly bigger than me. We were both in out early 30s. He attacked me as a random asault, and I wiped the floor with him. What I’ve noticed with black guys & fights is that blacks have a big bark to bite ratio, and showboat a lot. They expect that a black opponent will just showboat back, and a white opponent will be scared off. They rarely expect a white guy to fight back, and normally, are quite unprepared when he does.

WHite guys, on the other hand, get stopne cold quiet, or will yell short loud threats, and when they do, you’re dead.

Size being equal, I’d much rather fight a black guy than a white guy.

Put a random white guy up against a random black guy with the same IQ and annual income and you would do well to bet on the black guy getting the girl.

It’s not quite so “chessboard” clean and even comparison. WOmen have a built-in anti-miscegenation instinct that compells them to select a father that will give them a baby that looks like they do. White women, also, have more of a “find-a-provider” instinct than black women do, and black males are known as unreliable mates.

Also, white women will ultimately want a white husband, and they sense that higher-caliber white men disqualify women who cross racial lines from consideration as wives.

Anyway, all my white female friends except one would not exclude a black man as a sexual/romantic partner, and all but the same one (and I – but I’ve been off the market since 19) have slept with/dated at least one black man before.

Bonnie does a very nice manouver here, common among upper class (or upwardly-ambitious) white women: proclaims approval of miscegenation, but very carefully signals that “due to circumstances” she isn’t personally one who does it.

As a bonus, she scores against her girlfreinds by signaling that her girlfriends have slept with black guys, but not her (due to “cirsumstances” of course, not that she thinks there is anythign wrong with that.)

FeministX,
Yove tossed quite a bit out on the table here!-and as you might imagine, I have quite a bit to say in response. But first, please allow me to give you props for your recent post on how guys may protect themselves from what I call the Mike Tyson Treatment. Bravo. It doesn’t diminish a Man to treat a Woman like a Lady. She has given you access to her body for an evening or a weekend, it’s not too much to ask to treat her well afterwards. And, like you said, doing so pays great practical dividends in good will.

In another time, they would call that being a Gentleman. Today, being a “douche” is where it’s at. Kali Yuga is in Full Effect.

Now then, to your “Black Game” comments…

With all due respect FemX, I really don’t think you’ve been exposed to many Black people. For sure, there are indeed Brothas out there who act as you mention. But there are also many Black Men that don’t carry themselves that way at all. I certainly don’t, and last time I checked, I was most definitely Black, LOL.

*If* I were to approach you, it would not have been in the manner you just described with the other Black Man. As a rule, I don’t usually approach Women, unless they give a clear and present IOI *first*. My personal interaction with Indian people has been nothing but positive, so I’m quite confident that I could pull Indian gals fairly easily if I wanted.

As for the notion that Black Men “come on too strong” I don’t think they have the corner on this, just that they have the perception that they do. Moreover, a killer combination in a Black Men is one who is refined, smooth and got mad Game to boot. Sidney Poitier, Denzel Washington, to an extent Will Smith, Black Men like that can pretty much write their own ticket to the ladies of the world, and often do. I know a Brotha out of NYC who just got finished putting his Italian lady back on the plane home from her visit to see him. He’s in the “smooth, refined, mad Game” catergory of Black Men.

Here is where I would address Thursday’s comments, that yea, all things being equal, Brothas will probably win out in a straight up head to head Game “duel” over a similarly placed White guy. Tyson Beckford aces Ashton Kutcher coming and going.

The problem seems to be, when discussing these topics, that for some reason, a lot of Whites, and it seems at least a few Indians, seem to think that ALL Black Men come off like Nelly or something. We don’t. We are complex and not monolithic. Challenge yourself to learn more about us befoe you go to saying things that make you look less educated than you actually are.

Obsidian says, “His thin patina of respectability and “scientific” presentation belie such an ugly spirit that its little wonder HBD has so much trouble attracting, in his own words, “hot babes”.”

Well, it’s like I said on a different topic…if nature has blessed someone with a true and recognized advantage, they have little tolerance for people trying to drag them down.

For every starving model, there are probably 10 exceptionally resillient or natural eating thin women who don’t look airbrushed, but do look hot. A great many of them are the product of ethnic mixing, or come from less popular ethnicities. They’re definitely rare among the overly entitled eaters of industrial lubricant and refined sugar.

So the hot observer might encounter someone who’s spewing hate in fifty directions without thinking of where the insults might land, and at the end of the day almost nobody is left who would feel like they wouldn’t be default despised.

Almost no HBD’er I’ve encountered is able to stand on their own merits as an individual. They take generalities, some true, and some half truths, and use them as justification to place themselves personally above others. A Black man who is more intelligent than them cannot exist because White people on average have higher IQ’s. A beautiful Black woman cannot exist because in general, White women are perceived as more feminine and therefore more beautiful…the list goes on. Of course it always comes down to, “I am better than you, and there is nothing you can do or say, even if it’s greater than anything I could ever hope to achieve, that can change that.” It is a religious level belief.

It always gets back to stomping and clapping their hands over their ears that God loves them more or something.

Even those who claim to be atheists suffer from this. I got to a point where I fight with them for target practice when I’m bored, but usually just make my money, do my thing, and let them screw themselves as they’re likely genetically doomed to do.

…and my gift is above the eyebrows. I can imagine it’s the same for those gifted below.

Yo, my Man, this is all about YOU. Not Western Civ, not “miscegenation”, not cows jumping over the Moon, YOU.

I almost wasn’t going to boot up the PC today, but this sentence alone makes it worthwhile. Haha!

Notice how so many Game bashing BetaCons quickly try to enlist Game into solving all sorts of problems, like saving Western Civ, helping men advance their careers, etc. and that if Game cannot do ALL of the above, somehow Game is not useful.

What a weak way for them to hide from facing up to their own inadequacies.

That being said, someone with solid Game will develop such a strong ethic for self-improvement that they probably will tackle their challenges in many other areas of life as well. They will go further in their career, maintain better health and fitness, etc. But these are indirect corelations from a man knowing Game, NOT causations of them.

“I’m just outside Philly, and my experience jives with Obsidians re: black men, white women (and Asian women for that matter – many 1st and 2nd gen Korean women date and marry black men, there are tons of half black/half Korean people my age and younger in the area).”

This is not true.

“Many” 1st/2nd generation Korean women do not date and marry niggers, nor are there “tons” of half nigger/half Korean people.

Don’t extrapolate from the few examples of depraved Korean women and half niggers from your immediate experience.

Yuri,
Please. Save it for the targets of your true ire-the Bill Gates’, Sun Microsystems, Intels, and other outfits who back immigation to this country in droves, why?-because they know they can Ajay and Wang for a fraction of the price it would cost to put you to work. Globalization, my friend! Ain’t it grand?

Oh, and don’t forget to lobby Congress to end AA because White Women are getting too many jobs and education for poor wittle White Beta Boys to compete. Be sure and report back the results. Good luck with that.

Yuri, before I go, let me ask you a few questions:

1. Have you read The Game and/or The Mystery Method? If so, what are your thoughts about the book(s)? If not, why?

2. What’s your score? How old are you? What kind of Women do you want?

1) Online Dating : Don’t bother. Even if you are a handsome man with a great profile. Match.com and other sites have two men for each woman, and women on there merely get their egos stroked by seeing 10 men reply to them, which the artificial ratio ensures.

In fact, Match.com is dangerous to women, because it makes them overrate their market value based on the level of male attention they get (that too from photos that are 5 years old rather than current). It lures women into letting their remaining years of youth slip by, by giving them a false sense of what level they are at.

A man who cannot approach in the daytime retreats to the Internet. Approach is the ‘Great Filter’. 95% of men cannot do it, so they lose out massively to the 5% that can.

2) Politics : Most unmarried women are not built to grasp this subject, so just dismiss the subject, or use it to neg her, along the lines of “Oooh – you’re an activist? That’s so cute..”.

There are many attractive women who are politically moderate, etc. Obama’s approval is not what it was even 4 months ago, so don’t make this mole-hill into a mountain.

Now, as for you calling yourself a ‘Game Skeptic’, that is typical of men who don’t have much experience with women. Men who know how women think will naturally see the clarity of the Game process and body of knowledge.

“A Black man who is more intelligent than them cannot exist because White people on average have higher IQ’s. A beautiful Black woman cannot exist because in general, White women are perceived as more feminine and therefore more beautiful…the list goes on.”

A black man who is more intelligent than them can exist (see Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, Walter Williams.)

An all black first world society CANNOT exist because those men are the true outliers.

PA,
You’re from the same state as myself. Surely, you’ve been to Philly, yes? Why not field test what I’ve said, and spend a a day or two walking through the campuses of the schools I mentioned. That way, we can put to the test what I’ve said. The notion of the fat, trailer trash White Woman hooking up with a Black Man is a common meme, but in our test that wouldn’t be a part of the mix by definition, right? And if Black Men are on campus, that would also remove the Nelly Factor-right?

I mean, if Bonnie and I are so wrong, it should be fairly easy to prove.

So why don’t you?

And as for the Black guys fighting thing? Last time I heard, both races have their fair share of showboaters.

On the black/white guy thing, black guys tend to have higher testosterone levels than whites. Which means that, on average, they are taller and more muscular than white men. And they tend to be more outgoing than whites, often with winning personalities. (Steve Sailor is 100% right that affirmative action steers black into lots of jobs for which they are unsuited and deflects them from jobs like sales where they could actually be good.)

This gives them — all things being equal — a somewhat higher sexual market value. This is partially counterbalanced by poor impulse control and lower IQ. Lots of girls are turned on by criminal propensities (hence the serial killer fetishists) but a pretty large number want a “bad boy” who isn’t, you know, an actual criminal. And serious criminality often results in premature death or a long period of imprisonment. This takes black men out of the dating pool.

Most whites tend to underestimate the real IQ difference between blacks and whites. This is partly because most middle class and upper middle class whites only meet blacks who are themselves well above the black average, but it’s also due to a certain willful blindness on the part of PC whites.

Lower IQ does decrease sexual market value. Yeah, all the game stuff matters, as does raw physical attraction. But if you are talking about LTR, then women will start to be annoyed with a guy who is one standard deviation dumber than them. Of course, an IQ 100 white woman can simply choose to date only IQ 100 black men — but then you start to have a “pool problem.” And a woman with an IQ of 115 or higher will find it very difficult to find a black guy who isn’t noticeably dumber than her.

Plus, much as y’all like to denigrate it, women really and truly do want guys who have resources. Lower IQ means fewer resources, even with affirmative action and some wealth redistribution.

Of course it goes without saying that blacks cannot sustain an advanced industrial civilization, although plenty of blacks on the right hand side of the black IQ bell curve can and do make positive contributions. But in terms of scoring chicks, yeah, black guys do OK.

Sandy, you probably shouldn’t extrapolate from the pseudo elitist mail order and club hostess brides either. They lie up and down about how Asian women from good families don’t marry foreigners, especially Black ones.

Yet most of the ones I know married to Black men, from the military, are from good families. Black guys aren’t usually naive enough to pick up a girl in a massage parlor or a bargirl. We’re not talking massive numbers of Korean/Black intermarriage, but it’s definitely not extremely rare.

The bargirl type who score a White foreign guy think they are better than girls who do real work for a living. They’re looking down on them once they marry, probably because they were looked down upon when they were playing for pay.

So if you hear a 1st gen. Korean or Thai woman who is married to a White guy, talking trash about another Asian woman being with a Black man, ask her where she met her husband, and what her job was at the time. There are plenty of racists in Asia, but they don’t marry White guys.

Ok – Help. Don’t remember how I started getting interested in all this stuff, but in the last month I’ve read The Game, bought two NLP books and spent more time reading PUA-related sites than I have earning money. I’m not remotely normal. We’re talking barely a single girlfriend (almost doesn’t count) and she’s the only person I’ve ever made out with (once). No sex. I’m nearly 30. I barely even have friends. I’m not “average guy who can’t get girls”. I’m presentable, intelligent, good conversation when relaxed, but I have trouble even maintaining eye contact with girls or even guys! Actually approaching a random girl on the street (I couldn’t bear to go to a nightclub) seems impossible. I never had friends outside school and I haven’t learnt how to do social situations. I’m starting from practically nothing. Is there anyone else who has made it from a situation like mine to, you know, actually having a girlfriend? Because I’d kill to hear how they did it. It’s Saturday night and I should be out in a bar with my friends or whatever it is regular people do. Instead I’m here typing this. As I said, HELP!

TFH,
While I do see your point about online dating sites, I’m not entirely sure I agree 100% w/what you’re saying. I think the Internet can be used just as well as Day Game, in som cases even moreso, because that way Women feel more comfortable I the former environment, ie, they have more control over who they do and don’t want to talk to, etc. Whereas out on the street, etc, they really can’t determine who will step to her.

Moreover, and I know it’s just me, I don’t normally approach a lot of Women, UNLESS they’re giving me serious IOS from the get go. Otherwise, I don’t waste my time. Its not that I have approach anxiety-actually I’m quite the extrovert and outgoin personlity-it’s just that I’ve found, that very often Women can and will use such scenarios for the quick ego pick me up boost for their day. A form of supplication, I call it. And therefore why I don’t do it. I need her to invest FIRST BEFORE I say or do anything. I already know I’m serious. I need to gauge how serious she is.

Flipping the script allows a Man to screen out which Women will have the good fortune of some of his time. When you look together and radiate that vibe, trust me, Women WILL hit on you; all you have to do is decide which from among the multitude who you will choose. Just be very alert for the IOIs; Women are especially adept at sending out signals on the downlow.

As for the political thing, as a general rule I simply avoid it. Not worth the hassle, and at the end of the day, unless one of us is in a position to directly influence policy its not worth the argument and buzzkill. Simply change the subject.

As I wrote here I think “black game” is just an approach based on socio-economic conditions. An upper-middle class, to upper class black guy who grows up in suburban Connecticut isn’t going to be equipped with “black game”, but a lower- to lower-middle class white guy who grows up in a prevalently black neighbourhood will be.

So, what we call “black game” isn’t effective on me because I’m turned on by a highly intellectual approach that focuses on building sexual tension rather than being outright dominant or aggressive.

Also, there’s always going to be a subset of the population that just isn’t attracted to black men. My parents wouldn’t approve of me dating a black guy, and I know a lot of women, whether they be white, East Asian, or Indian who are in similar circumstances. Partially cultural conditioned, partially basic attraction at work (since all selection is discriminatory in some respect).

Yuri says, “An all black first world society CANNOT exist because those men are the true outliers.”

I have a wait and see attitude about that. Some African nations are still having post de facto colonial growing pains, but I see good things in the future once things are settled down. They’re a couple hundred years behind the west, for the most part.

Intelligent Black men are plentiful, and when they have the opportunity, take education quite seriously. So I don’t see how they can’t become “first world” nations in time…perhaps in a shorter time than the west came out of its own dark age.

Don’t waste comment thread space even bothering to debate this with me. You’re low class. You don’t know anyone from “good families.” You have no authority or understanding about this topic so just give it up.

Obsidian, why are you so invested in the notion of white women dating blacks? Which is a rarity, as I keep telling you. If you notice it a lot in Philly, it’s because B/W couples jump out at ya as an oddity, while WW couples blend into the scenery.

Zora Neale Hurston once wrote that the black woman is the mule of humanity. Which is really sad, as I see this even on these threads. Chic Noir or Nicole will eloquently defend her men… who don’t even want them.

High-end black guys like yourself wax poetically on the virtues of gaming white girls, while genteel, intelligent black guys like David Alexander outright say that they aren’t attracted to black women. Sad.

PA:Obsidian, why are you so invested in the notion of white women dating blacks? Which is a rarity, as I keep telling you. If you notice it a lot in Philly, it’s because B/W couples jump out at ya as an oddity, while WW couples blend into the scenery.

O: No, its because they really ARE increasing, just like a number of things really are increasing, among them the incidence of Lesbianism among both Black and Hispanic Women in the inner city. Personally, I don’t have a dog in the fight, but I did want to give a more balanced perspective to what I see is a warped sense of reality among my White and at least one Indian fellow commenters.

PA: Zora Neale Hurston once wrote that the black woman is the mule of humanity. Which is really sad, as I see this even on these threads. Chic Noir or Nicole will eloquently defend her men… who don’t even want them.

O: Well, far be it for the late Ms. Hurston to speak for all Black Women…anyway, I’ve defended both ladies in this forum before, and would do so again if the need arose.

PA: High-end black guys like yourself wax poetically on the virtues of gaming white girls, while genteel, intelligent black guys like David Alexander outright say that they aren’t attracted to black women. Sad.

O: Hardly a fair apples to apples comparison, since I done forgot more ass I done tapped in my lifetime than Dave Alex possibly will ever know, White or Black. Moreover, by CHOICE, I date and love Black Women. If I wanted to, I could just as easily get with a White, Hispanic or Asian/South Asian Woman, but I don’t, for personal preference reasons. So, I really don’t know what you’re talking about, in a personal sense.

It takes fewer people to kill large numbers of people (or cause a lot of destruction) than the past.

In which other age could 19 men with boxcutters kill over 3k people and cause over a trillion of collateral economic damage? and set in motion, events and responses that would end up causing more damage than the initial incident.

Internet dating sites should work very well in theory. They enable searching, pre-screening, etc.

But in reality, they become the same thing as a nightclub, where women quickly default into using the dating site to feel more attractive than they are. Beta Men, in turn, mostly go there because they don’t have real-world guts.

This ruins a medium that should be very useful, but at this time still is not. Roosh has written about this at length.

Match.com and others are also a reason that women find themselves to be 35 and single with no prospects, because the website gave them reason to think they had far more marriage prospects than they did in reality. The single woman effectively runs past the cliff in Wile E. Coyote fashion, due to the illusion that the dating site gave her about herself. Women, who no longer are guided by the steady hand of their parents and grandparents, don’t have the maturity and groundedness to withstand the ratio-blurring effects of this new technology. They feel that tons of guys are interested in them, without realizing that the responses are based on photos that are 5 years old, the website has a favorable ratio, and also that the same guys sent the same message to 20 other women.

The few internet dating sites that do work are ones that are specialty sites (Jewish only, Indian only, etc.) or ones like eHarmony, where men are fewer than women.

PA, I don’t see myself as defending them so much as understanding them. Not all Black men date out. Some Africans are very hard core about that for racial reasons, and some Black American guys are for cultural reasons.

The ones who do, I can’t really fault them for it any more than I could fault a White guy for dating out. Race, in its true sense, is a very complicated thing. I believe in nature.

If there aren’t any compatible women available who are technically of your own ethnicity, doesn’t it make sense to find someone with the traits you value who is from a different ethnicity? Why do you think I encourage White American guys to learn their history, and maybe go abroad to find a suitable woman?

Since we’re not so genetically far apart as humans, if a woman of a different ethnicity exemplifies the ideals of yours better than those local to you, doesn’t she have more in common with you than those who are technically more closely related? Many features are very much genetic. Would you rather breed with someone whose genes were taking them farther off track, rather than someone who might set things back on track?

I think this is one reason many, though not all, men prefer a little diversity. Maybe it’s a kind of regulating factor to keep their culture going the right direction.

It’s just a personal theory. I don’t know if it’s truth, but it seems so. Personal example: the men in my family’s line seem to have been selecting the same kind of women since long ago…fairly pretty, sturdy build, extremely fertile, and also extremely intelligent. Both the Native American and African branches pick the same kind, and probably merged because of availability.

It probably isn’t a conscious choice, and I feel it would be wrong for me to be telling someone they should be looking for a color when they personally should be looking for compatibility.

Generally, socially, as a woman, I understand that nobody will respect me as much as someone of a similar ancestry…but I’m female. Males shouldn’t be using the same strategies as females.

The only white women who will let themselves be soiled by black men are low-class women and women with gutter-level self-esteem. I’ve noticed that women with rape or molestation in their past and/or abusive/neglectful fathers are more susceptible to jungle love.
My boyfriend (Eastern European) would never fuck a woman who’d been invaded by black peen.
Black *women* are a different story….some are quite gorgeous! 🙂

Lucy
I am a well off, WASPY white guy. Let me share a secret. White folks do not “accept” you just because you are white.
Indeed, I think it is pretty silly that anyone would go out into the world looking for acceptance or respect without first proving you are good at something. Race has nothing to do with that.
I have spent lots of time racing various types of motorized vehicles, more or less exclusively in the company of guys very similar to me in most important respects. Nobody gets accepted or even really notice until you start winning or at least scaring the winners. Only a silly person would expect otherwise. Every grouping of human beings is too full of pretenders and losers for it to be otherwise.
BTW, in my profession, Indian Chappies have floated right to the top as soon as they started to compete.
God Bless America.

Cecilia, social vacuum theories are very attractive to people who need to feel superior to others, but they don’t address the real issue.

The real issue is that if there aren’t suitable partners available of one’s own ethnicity, or those of one’s ethnicity are unbearably hostile, one does what one has to do to survive and thrive.

If a woman has indeed been molested or abused, and it was men of her own ethnicity who did it to her, then they’ve basically broken a trust. Nobody should fault her for going elsewhere since she was an outcast among her own.

BTW, in my profession, Indian Chappies have floated right to the top as soon as they started to compete.

Yes. Just this morning, barely 5 hours ago, I went to a talk that had Aneesh Chopra, the White House’s CTO. He is only 37, yet in a Cabinet level WH position. The gathering was an Indian-run elite Silicon Valley organization. I also met Steve Wozniak there, and got a photo with him. Woz came on a Saturday morning to an Indian business gathering.

That is why I will defend this country’s system to the death, unless and until it stops being more of a race-blind meritocracy than any other place in the world.

PA, one more thing about my theory…it’s partly based on races developing through adaptation. Humans aren’t quite as mindless as some other animals, and can direct our evolution to some degree. For instance, you can consciously decide which features are non negotiable, and which are. You can also be aware of things you’ll have to reinforce for your own family identity, that the society/tribe/nation might overlook or can’t contribute.

So part of the maintenance of racial features may well have been the insertion of new genetic stock that would maintain the society by maintaining the capability of people to operate within the society. If, for instance, one of your culture’s rites of passage is going to the army, you might find yourself, when attracted to someone of another ethnicity, attracted to one from a family of warriors. Something about her will say “homefront” and that’ll turn you on despite her not being “perfect” according to your culture’s ideal beauty template.

Internet dating is mostly a waste of time. If you can approach women you find attractive without feeling uncomfortable, and for some reason you still feel the need to dick around with “winks” and endless bullshit emails, go right ahead. But most of the guys on there are ONLY on there, because they are scared to approach women in real life. Needless to say, the “dates” these guys manage to trick girls into do not tend to go well.

A woman’s stated political beliefs are a function of what people around her are saying. A man she loves and respects will pretty much always pull her into his way of thinking.

Also, Lucifer, if 10 million Ukrainians, or 10 million Arabs, or 10 million Nigerians moved to your country of origin (India? Sri Lanka?) would they be better or worse-treated than you have been in the West?

Nicole, you have a very naturalistic world view, and I often agree with you, or at least read you with interest (so long as your commentary doesn’t take fantastic Sylvia Plathish directions, heh). There is something to your “refresh the gene pool” theory, but as you yourself have indicated in the past, it’s the man’s job to bring in fresh blood.

Just as with prostitution, miscegenation on women’s part is a symptom of a very serious structural problem in her society.

The phenomenon of post-Cold War Ukrainian women filling every brothel in Germany and every mail-order-bride page on the internet is the truest sign of how devastating Communism and then losing the Cold War have been on east Slavic countries.

“Bonnie does a very nice manouver here, common among upper class (or upwardly-ambitious) white women: proclaims approval of miscegenation, but very carefully signals that “due to circumstances” she isn’t personally one who does it.”

Yes, yes. Another good one is “I really like black guys, but I can’t date them because my family is really, really racist”, more common among lower middle class women.

Some stupid fucking broad said:

“Almost no HBD’er I’ve encountered is able to stand on their own merits as an individual….I have a friend? Who’s black? Ya, and he’s happily married to a black woman and has two kids? So you can’t make generalizations?”

I’ll wade in regarding internet dating. I work in a very small town and the kind of work I’m involved in does not attract men in general (nurture field/low pay). Plus I run the company and it’s never a good idea to mingle business and pleasure. The town’s men…well…no. This means I don’t have a lot of options for meeting men. I’m attractive enough to turn a head I just have little interaction with single, older, available men in my everyday life. So what’s a woman to do? Go to the www that’s what. Yes I got a lot of attention. Did it go to my head? Not really but it allowed me to book a lot of dates. I wasn’t there to chat or get my ego stroked I wanted to meet and meet quickly. I’ve had close to 100 first/second dates. I’ve had as many as six first dates in five days.

Here’s the thing. Pictures or writing style says nothing about attraction. I’ve heard the stories about old pics and that’s happened but only a very small percentage. I look like my pics. I know that because a dude and I exchanged a long lingering glance at a concert (strangers) and then he contacted me three weeks later on the dating site. He said “remember me we saw each other at the concert?” – he recognized my profile shot. We didn’t get together because it turned out he was younger and I’m not into younger men. I want to be the hot young thing not the other way round. 🙂

Where was I? Oh ya internet dating. I don’t recommend it. Attraction can not be built by pictures and email cuz what’s important is the vibe you get when you meet. How he moves his mouth, how he walks, talks and charms. Online dating builds a false chemistry and you begin to imagine what the guy/girl will be like. Phone conversation is not helpful either because you haven’t got any mannerisms to back it up. This false image will ruin even a great guy/girl meeting much of the time. Watch Dating in the Dark if you don’t believe me. Filling in the blanks is not good for reality.

I could add that the men who date online are not for the most part dominant, decisive men. Those guys do meet their chicks in person. Just sayin…

TFH,
If indeed the internet dating sites, and I’ve never tried any of them personally, are basically the same as your garden variety niteclub, I don’t see why one would be all that different from the other. It’s basically the same dynamic-a bunch of guys and fewer gals. Hmm.

The success I’ve had online came not from dating sites but general “community” sites where Women were present and liked what I had to say, etc. Often, we’d take it from there, if we hit it off great, and if not, great.

I’ve met Women in all kinds of ways, so to me I see the Internet as just one more potential avenue. I don’t over or under play it, I see it as just another potential option.

“I have a wait and see attitude about that. Some African nations are still having post de facto colonial growing pains, but I see good things in the future once things are settled down.”

“Colonial growing pains” is euphemism for “whitey left and took his high IQ.”

The numbers are simply not there.

Rough back-of-the envelope estimate:

First world requires a professional class of doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc. at least 120 IQ (10% of whites.)

Among blacks that’s less than 2%. So, not going to happen unless you bump up IQ by a SD. It probably took Ashkenazi Jews centuries of natural selection to go up 8 to 10 pts, so short of Magic Brain Elixir not. going. to happen.

The success I’ve had online came not from dating sites but general “community” sites where Women were present and liked what I had to say, etc.

Yes, that can work well. But is a BIG difference from a site dedicated to dating.

The interesting point here is, since women no longer have the steady hand of their parents and grandparents guiding them into a timely marriage with a ‘good’ man, these women think they are empowered. But there are technologies that will blur their reality about their desirability (the ratios I mentioned), and thus they will not realize how much they are losing by letting the 29th, 31st, 33rd, etc. birthday go by.

Then, finally, they experience their Wile E. Coyote moment when they have no market value left.

This is similar to an earlier topic about how if a woman has sex with an Alpha, the ego boost is enough for her to reject Betas for the next 6 months. This process repeats until she crosses 35 and has far fewer prospects than she expected.

The lack of mother/grandmother guidance, combined with new technologies, is causing many women to miscalculate the future, and lose their way.

The US, for all it’s faults, does have a level of meritocracy not seen in other western counties.

Yes. That is the point. That is what makes America exceptional.

Most European countries, frankly, are not so great at all.

But America is. As long as it stays that way, and forces fighting to ‘mediocre-ize’ America are fought off.

White people who want to keep out even the highest-skilled immigrants (who started 52.4% of Silicon Valley companies), just because they happen to be Chinese or Indian, are among those who would ‘de-exceptionalize’ America.

PA says, “There is something to your “refresh the gene pool” theory, but as you yourself have indicated in the past, it’s the man’s job to bring in fresh blood.”

Yes it is. This is one reason why I both fiercely defend a man’s prerogative to preference, and fiercely oppose anger and shame as a tactic to limit preference. Women have no business trying to corral men into captive ethnic audiences. When men jump on that bandwagon, I find it unfortunate.

As impractical as it may sound to tell White guys to look abroad, it’s not so far out. Maybe one doesn’t have to look abroad literally, but perhaps deprogram from the generic White uniform template enough to be okay with the generally White available selection…and real enough about that to speak up and tell a girl when she’s sacrificing her real beauty for the generic “beauty”, or deviating to the point of detracting from her potential beauty.

So let’s make some anti implants and pro grass fed beef banners. Heheheh…

First world requires a professional class of doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc. at least 120 IQ (10% of whites.)

10% of Whites. But at least 40% of Asians (East and South).

It would be fiscally stimulative and prudent to allow more high-IQ people (of ALL races, whether Russian, Chinese, Indian, Ghanaian, or Senegalese) to come here. Regardless of race. A merit-based immigration policy.

An America of high fences but large gates, with a solid education being the price of admission.

this is total bunk, most of hollywood’s leading men pitt, efron, clooney, depp and even beckham … none are over 6 feet and all are admired for being handsome 10’s all over the world

You don’t think height is attractive to the majority of women? You are delusional.

Did you happen to notice that all of your male 10 picks are rich, powerful and famous? Did you happen to notice that the women who consider these men 10 will not have an opportunity to interact with them face to face? Did you notice that none of them are short, at 5’10”-6′ (with the exception of Efron, whose height is a guarded secret by way of movie magic, similar to how Cruise’s was for a long time. If height didn’t matter, Efron and Cruise wouldn’t need camera tricks to conceal t heir height).

I’m talking about face to face judgments of beauty here with no foreknowledge of the target; not Tom Cruise standing on a stepping stool to look in the eyes of his beautiful co-star and give a heart stirring profession of love, which will no doubt give gina tingles. He is a ‘pretty’ man, as are all your picks, but their status as ’10s’ is predicated upon their social status at least in part. George Clooney the famous actor is apparently a 10, but is George Clooney the computer programmer? Doubtful. Male beauty is notoriously hard to judge, but height is definitely a factor for the majority of women. It’s really apparent in the field, and most women will plainly tell you they prefer tall over short.

Searching,
If you go to the beginning of The Game, you’ll see where Style meets Mystery for the first time. Mystery then gives a list of what he considers Alpha Male traits:

1. Smile
2. Confidence
3. Well-groomed
4. Sense of humor
5. Connects well with others
6. Seen as the social center of the room

Now-go through the above list very carefully. Ask yourself, honestly, where you fit on that list, the things you do and don’t have presently. Then work on getting the things you don’t have, and improving on the things you do have.

Next thing-you need to go the mating grounds in order to get a feel of how the Game works in realtime. A good hunter ALWAYS has the lay of the land, so to speak.

So, your assignment, next week? Go hit the clubs. Your mission: to merely observe. You want to watch what others do. Keep mental notes. Watch what the guys who seem to be popular w/the ladies do-are they facing the gals when they talk to them? What kinds of gestures do they make? What are they wearing? Is he alone, or with a friend of his own?

Next, watch the guys who AREN’T so popular with the ladies. Are they alone, or with a group of other guys? Do they just stand around? Do they look like they’re having fun? Compare and contrast the two groups of guys, and again take careful notes. In your head. Please do not go in there w/a pen and notebook, OK? LOL.

Alright-now comes the really important stuff. You want to carefully watch the Women in the club. Notice the really cute ones-are they alone, or with friends? Next, consider the ones who are average to not so cute-what about them? Are they too among a group of friends, or are they alone?

How do the Women talk, move, gesture, to each other, and to/with the Men who approach them? Watch all of this very carefully. It will aid you tremendously when time comes to hit the field.

The bar is the hub of the club. That’s where YOU want to be. Keep your back to the bar, your face should be facing the door. This way you can see who’s coming in right from the jump, and make quick calcs as how to make your move, or not. In any event, simply doing this makes you standout among all the other guys, who will tend to have their heads facing the barkeep.

OK, finally, this shyness deal. You gotta lose it, Man. Otherwise, it’ll kill you socially. That doesn’t mean that you talk to everyone around you, but it does mean that you gotta talk to folk more than you do. Start small. The Game gives some basic pointers in this direction.

Don’t be put off or down if you stumble the first few times. Expect to fall a good bit before you get your sealegs. Give it a bit of time, take it slow, and most of all, look at all like an experiment of sorts.

You don’t seem very grown up to me. If you were, you’d be an honest opponent of what you view as “game” rather than a skeptic of it. Game skeptics are people who think the magic Mating Fairy is going to wave a magic wand and bring vaginas to his bed because he’s a domesticated vegetarian who loves puppies or something.

K,
You make a good point about what Women *say* they prefer in a Man in terms of height.

But, as a short Man at 5’8″, I can tell you, for a fact, that it is still very possible for such a Man to score. And score big, ie, w/much taller gals. I’ve done and am doing it, as we speak.

Its all really about Psychosocial Dominance, aka GAME. A shorter guy having Game will beat a taller Man without Game, every single time. Trust me, I know of what I speak.

Most Men in America aren’t over 6′ tall anyway, so what Women say they want is really a kind of wishlist. The great thing about being a guy is that what makes us attractive to Women is a lot more malleable than the other way around. I done lost count as to the number of gals who’ve told me that they don’t usually date short(er) guys and all the rest of it…as they’re climbing into/out of my bed…heh heh…

As I’ve said before, its a question of Mind over Matter. To quote the great Jedi Master Yoda:

White people who want to keep out even the highest-skilled immigrants (who started 52.4% of Silicon Valley companies), just because they happen to be Chinese or Indian, are among those who would ‘de-exceptionalize’ America.

Some Americans don’t care if Chinese or Indians see them as “exceptional.” They just want to have a country they call their own.

These should be blog posts. Not comments, blog posts. That is why everyone is waiting for your ribbon-cutting with anticipation. Your tutelage will inevitably connect with those who WANT to be helped. Thus far, much of your tutelage has gone to waste on those who don’t want to be helped (whether DA or SocialCons).

Make sure you are saving and organizing all of your essay-length comments. I don’t want you to spend 200 hours just in duplication from scratch of what you wrote before (a common blogger trap).

Remember that if you are good at verbal monologue, you can even do audio podcasts and put them on your blog.

Rum says, “If you were to lose about a 100 lbs of lard-flesh your postings here would change utterly.”

Well, since I have begun to get into Muay Thai, thanks to my boyfriend, that day is coming sooner than expected. I doubt my style or opinions will change much since I’ll be thinner, but far more masculine looking than I am now. I’m almost 40, so this time around, I won’t have the glow of youth to cover the butch.

TFH,
A bit off topic, but in relation to your “high skills” immigration scheme…

I don’t know if you saw my comments in response to this over on the, I think, Amish Love thread…but in a nutshell, I am wary of your proposal because, as a Man who was not able to attend college himself, I nevertheless through sheer determination and persistance, educated myself, following in the great tradition of Frederick Douglass, Richard Wright and Malcolm X- Black Men who were in ever sense of the word, “self made”.

Also, your scheme would lockout true geniuses like Mystery, who if my guess is right, isn’t “highly skilled” in the formal sense. Yet his contribution is truly revolutionary, is it not?

America is exceptional, not only because of the things you mentioned, but because it is perhaps the only place where the descendant of slaves can, through force of will, mold himself into anything he wants to, whether he is “skilled” or not.
That’s what I love about Game, and why having a “seduction name” has such appeal-because you are literally remaking yourself into something you were not prior to discovering Game. For me, “Obsidian” is more than a name string of letters; it represents an ideal I strive to live up to-elemental, smoother than glass or metal, yet highly effective, even lethal…and yes, Black.

In America, we can be anything we want to be, provided we’re willing to work hard for it. That is America’s Promise, regardless of where you come from.

Completely anotehr angle against the “best & brightest” immigration, especially from the third world. The brain drain. And it’s not just pure brainpower I’mtalking about,. It’s the rare example of leadership and humanity these represent among their own people.

The Washington Times recently had a week-long feature on war-rapes in the Congo. Real shit-bowels of the earth kind of stuff. King Leopold had nothing on those guys. They ended the series on a positive note, featuring the story of a Congolese doctor who developed a hospital and care facilities for raped women, their bastard children,. and women/children who were mutilated by the rapists.

Now, a “best & brightest” advocate would have this doctor come to a Western country. Even though the West has an appreciable number of its own doctors, and bright young kids who canbecome medical students.

They’d pull this man from his own country, removing even that one small light of civilization form that benighted land.

Both Mystery and yourself are domestic (well, Mystery is Canadian), so you would not be locked out. You are here already.

I am saying : we should have a high influx of skilled people (regardless of race), with a blockout of unskilled people, both legal and illegal. No matter how many times I stress the ‘regardless of race’ part, some white HBD fools here insist I have some ‘secret Indian agenda’. They can’t accept that someone might be enlightened enough to put principle and meritocracy ahead of race.

This is preferable to what we have now, which is a small number of skilled people (who make an outsized economic contribution) but a huge number of unskilled people coming in.

Trade the 1 million illegals per year for the same number of scientists, engineers, and doctors, effectively.

This has nothing to do with Game, of course. An egghead will have no Game relative to Mystery, yourself, etc.

TFH,
Thanks for the kudos, Man, and believe you me, I’m planning to “revise and extend my remarks” quite a bit, LOL. Many of the posts of mine that have appeared here will also appear on my blog in one form or another…I even am contemplating taking suggestions from the readers what posts of mine they’d like to see expanded on. But yea, I definitely have plans to mine the archive over the past year for my posts in order to build a kind of “Obsidian Archive”. I’m on it.

You are like David Alexander in that he sees white people as immaterial except as feeders of blacks, while you see America as nothing but a land of opportunity for non-Americans.

Non-Americans such as yourself, yes. I am a very generous American in that regard, in granting this opportunity to immigrants from Eastern Europe, Asia, Latin America, and Africa. As long as a minimum skill level is cleared.

Now it is time for the Polish immigrant to go back to arguing with the Sri Lankan immigrant. America has brought both of your skillsets here.

I don’t know who Will Wilkinson is; probably one of your detractors, and hence a moron.

I do know that grad school is about as useful in attracting more or more quality women as having a really nerdy passion, like collecting model railroad engines. I consider myself an expert, as my grad school is bigger than most people’s. Lower class women will see you as a sort of potential wedding object, but that’s not the attitude you want them to take. Snardy women with Ph.D.’s in stupid subjects like psychology will actually have the temerity to see you as an “equal,” which is both hilarious and insulting. Oh, sure, you can score with the 3-4 women who actually have big giant brains and are attractive women, but, like, that’s a real niche. Nope; the best way to increase your attractiveness to women who are actually attractive is to make a lot of money and/or be famous.

TFH,
Yes, I understand perfectly what you’re saying. But what I’m saying is that the idea that ONLY the “skilled” have something to contribute is at best a kind of conceit, and at worst a seriously flawed policy, for the reasons I already gave: Frederick Douglass, Richard Wright, Malcolm X, Mystery. All of these Men were auto-didacts and true genuises. All have made real contributions to our society. What I’m saying is that there is more than one way to realize one’s potential and America should continue to uphold that tradition and ideal. Horatio Alger wasn’t an Ivy League grad.

I’ve said before that I consider myself as something of a Dandy-many Black Men in essence, are. But unlike them, and even a lot of Whites, they really don’t understand what Dandyism represents.

Last year, as I was still in the “experimental” phase of the Obsidian Project, I studied all manner of styles of presentation in terms of looks, etc. I read, carefully, Robert Greene’s The Art Of Seduction, and studied what he had to say about the Dandy. I personally felt that what he had to say was a bit wanting, so I decided to hit up Wikipedia’s entry.

It was there that I would truly understand what Dandyism was all about, and how it so fit my own life. Dandies were almost always self-made gentlemen, not of “noble” birth, who chose the Dandy route as a kind of rebuke to the notions of aristocracy that were rampant then, and in a way are resurgent now.

In this, I am challeging your notions of “skilled immigration”, becaue of its underlying implication, regardless of whether one is an immigrant or a homegrown citizen-I reject the notion that only the “skilled” have something to say or contribute. My life stands in glaring contradiction to that, and so do the lives of the Men I’ve mentioned, all of whom are Dandies of a sort.

Now it is time for the Polish immigrant to go back to arguing with the Sri Lankan immigrant.

Isn’t is instructive that a Polish immigrant is defending the American people from Population Replacement while an American born to Indian parents has more loyalty to foreigners than he has for his fellow Americans?

“Yuri,
Please. Save it for the targets of your true ire-the Bill Gates’, Sun Microsystems, Intels, and other outfits who back immigation to this country in droves, why?-because they know they can Ajay and Wang for a fraction of the price it would cost to put you to work. Globalization, my friend! Ain’t it grand?”

My “ire” isn’t towards high-IQ NAMs because I am secure in my ability to compete with them on a level playing field, and if I happen not to, would prefer to be a smaller fish in a better quality pond than a real big fish in a sewer.

However, egalitarian fantasy ideologies drag down quality of life for an entire society.

See North Korea for an extreme example. Average IQ reportedly above 100.

Because you’ve stated multiple times your interest in the measurement of universal female beauty, I wanted to pass this along to you. Steven Hoefflin is a plastic surgeon who has worked on many famous celebrities, including Michael Jackson (earlier versions, not the later freak). He has a book published called “The Beautiful Face” which is a mathematical approach to female beauty. I believe it’s right up your alley. You can read about it here:

You still have a mental block about what American ideals are about. I see many Europeans not being able to grasp the essence of American exceptionalism. They see everything in ethnicities, and thus can’t get that ‘American’ is not an ethnicity, and certainly not a race-based one.

Isn’t is instructive that a Polish immigrant is defending the American people from Population Replacement

How is it ‘replacement’? Does an American die if a skilled immigrant come in?

The countries that really have to worry about population replacement are your own (Poland and the rest of EE).

America was never meant to be a white country. All types of people can be Americans.

You are among those who ‘de-exceptionalize’ America, by taking away its unique meritocracy. You have more loyalty to the white race than to the United States of America.

I am among those who would keep it strong, and dominant in all knowledge-based industries. Thankfully, most Americans put economic vitality and race-blind meritocracy ahead of white nationalism as a national priority.

Which immigrants would you allow in, and how many? What would you change from the current immigration policy (which includes a policy of not enforcing border security)?

There is no way to predict precisely who becomes a contributor and who becomes a liability. Many educated people don’t, and many uneducated do, but one can only work with probabilities, and thus try to work with ‘higher probabiliity indicators’.

Anecdotes are not probabilities. A policy cannot be built around exceptional anecdotes.

In theory, it would be great if we had a ‘women only’ immigration policy. Only women allowed. Imagine that. But it is not realistic, so does not merit discussion.

I was wondering if you had any commentary on the inherent advantages and disadvantages of “Game” as practiced by a young black American male; Specifically harnessing (tongue-in-cheek) “Social Negrophobia” initially felt by girls to your advantage?

They’d pull this man from his own country, removing even that one small light of civilization form that benighted land.

That’s weird part about that. While he’s providing a useful and desperately needed service in his home country, part of me feels that he’s languishing and wasting away in third world nation living in sub-Western conditions. My dad could have easily stayed in Haiti doing engineering work, but why should he work so hard to live in a crummy country when he could live in a “pays blancs” where everything is well run and well-maintained? Of course, if you believe in the “smart fraction” theory, then the work that these people do is useless in the long-term due to the fact that their efforts will simply be overwhelmed by the efforts of crooked kleptocrats with better arms and the low-IQ masses…

You are like David Alexander in that he sees white people as immaterial except as feeders of blacks

The opportunity costs of building a duplicate parallel imitation non-white civilization are rather high, so it’s far easier to just plug into the Western civilization.

I think the key to ‘game’ is just aggressiveness, desire, persistence, and the ability to not give a shit. I never got laid in HS, college I did ok but mostly wasted opportunities. After college I began studying the game and now at 26 I continue to get decent tail even though my circumstances aren’t that conducive to it. The change from HS to now I attribute mainly to:

1) Having the desire to fuck loads of chicks. This is the main requirement, feeling the fire inside to go out and do what it takes to get laid.
2) More attempts whether it’s approaching in real life, or online dating. I practice a lot on different women in many circumstances.
3) Having a sales attitude-meaning that rejection doesn’t matter.

I do believe that learning game can do wonders because it has happened to me. I’m am decent looking and tall 6’3, I workout etc, but I’m also broke in one of the richest states in the US with tons of stuck up women around here. I lived in a shitty studio apartment in a shitty town and still managed to nail cute ivy league girls, and hot law students who all had rich parents. I also got rejected and failed a bunch of times. My method is to game and try to fuck every cute girl I come into contact with, it works, and over the years I’ve gotten pretty good at it.

So I agree with your post, anyone who says that game cannot improve your prospects is flat out wrong. If you’re a normal regular guy, you can go a long way. You may never fuck over 100 women or date a supermodel, but you’ll enjoy your life and have the sex life you want. The only thing that stops most guys is their own mind.

TFH,
My immigration policy is very simple-first, we close all the borders, North and South. We put the military on the borders to bolster Border Patrol and enforce or laws.

Next, we do all we can to round up illegals and send them back home. Any kids of theirs born here but under the age of 18 or 21 depending on the state, has to also go back w/said parents/guardians. When they read said ages, they can return to America if they wish. Their peeps will have to get in line like everyone else.
I like the lottery system personally. It basically gives everyone an equal shot at coming here. I wouldn’t necessarily weight it against or for “skilled” folk.

I’m just very wary of the notion that the only people who have something to offer our society are those who’ve matriculated. I reject such a premise.

You still have a mental block about what American ideals are about. I see many Europeans not being able to grasp the essence of American exceptionalism. They see everything in ethnicities, and thus can’t get that ‘American’ is not an ethnicity, and certainly not a race-based one.

You still have a mental block about what TFH family household ideals are about. I see many of your relatives not being able to grasp the essence of your family’s exceptionalism. They see everything in familial terms, and thus can’t get that ‘TFH household’ is not a family, and certainly not a relations-based one.

How is it ‘replacement’? Does an American die if a skilled immigrant come in?

Immigration of 1 million per year as you advocate, of people with very alien cultural backgrounds and appearances, culturally displace Americans from their schools, neighborhoods, communities, and cities. And immigration suppresses native birthrates.

The countries that really have to worry about population replacement are your own (Poland and the rest of EE

Unlike western Europe, EE countries are not receiving immgrants, so their populations are not replaced by others.

Ruby,
The best way I can respond to your question is by way of analogy.

By now, I’m sure you’ve seen the “Bourne” series of films, yes? Well, the very first one, The Bourne Identity, I liken to my first learning of Game; and the sequels in the Bourne series, the other “remembering” steps along the way.

Game both taught me and refreshed my memory in a sense of things I did on automatic pilot that I really didn’t understand but worked anyway. It really brought things into razor sharp focus.

For example, take the Seven Hour Rule, which I think you’re familiar with. It states that it takes somewhere between of 4 to 10 hours of comfort and rapport building with a Woman before she’s ready to consummate a sexual relationships with you, the average being 7 hours.

Now, I had done this *several* times in the past, and didn’t know exactly why the Women involved acted in the way they did, which was perfectly in line with what to expect when you execute the Seven Hour Rule properly. Game cleared all that up for me. Now I can deliberately do this.

So, I would say that in just about every way, learning Game in a formal sense, has been nothing but a net plus for me.

How about you? Why do you call yourself “Ruby”? What’s your score? How old are you? What are your goals Womenwise?

So race has not played a factor in your practice of “Game”? I ask because views on the qualitatitive and technical aspects of “Game” from a young black American perspective (a similar perspective to my own) are rare.

About Myself:

“Ruby” is just a quick-&-dirty monniker for use here. It allows for easy recognition and the preservation of some anonymity.

What I can say about myself, however, is that I am a 21 year old black male who lives in a bad area and is in a transitional point in his life.

I study existential risk management and can be considered somewhat of a “black redneck”. (I enjoy rural and wilderness activities, self-sufficiency, simple living, small scale-agriculture, country fashion [except hipster plaid] and blues, southern rock, folk, country and bluegrass music.)

I consider myself a pragmatic intellectual, but realize that intelligent people are a dime-a-dozen in this society and their worth is measured by the capacity by which they utilize their time, energy, power and resources to contribute or control.

On that note, I plan to enlist in the military and hopefully, become a career officer in the field of existential risk management.

On My “Game” Goals:

My ‘score’ is 5 — 2 LTRs, 2 One-Time-Encounters, 1 ‘Comfort-Friend’.

My longterm goal for the personal cultivation of “Game” is to successfully practice what Alpha Dominance would call ‘serial monogamy’.

A series of LTRs with intelligent and enjoyable women who I find compatible with my intended lifestyle.

I’d elaborate on my views on “Military Game” via the soldiers, sailors, Marines, Airmen, Guardians and veterans I know, but I’ll save that for another post.

PA,
Absolutely, formal Game taught me a lot of things I was completely unaware of. For example take the way Women operate. For example, take the Proximity Alert System-most Black guys are unawares of this, present company included. And as a result, I missed out on a lot of opportunities. So, Game helped me to understand that, along with other things insofar as how Women think and operate.

Also, believe it or not, Game helped me refine my Peacocking efforts. Before I was always into looking nice, but now I do it much more purposefully.

Republicans can draw some lessons from this if they are willing to part company with Democrats on some of their shared orthodoxies (e.g., embrace of large scale unskilled immigration). The way to do this would be to acknowledge the challenges posed by globalization to the American middle class and offer some constructive solutions.

[…]

On immigration policy, Republicans would be smart to buck the Chamber of Commerce’s demands for cheap unskilled immigrant labor and advocate a transition to an immigration system similar to those of Australia or Canada, one that selects for immigrants with high levels of human capital. While unemployment is high, immigration should perhaps be further limited to foreign entrepreneurs who have the capital and intent to start businesses here and create jobs for American workers. To counter the inevitable accusations that anyone advocating an economically rational immigration policy is advocating it because of racism, Republicans ought to do two things. First, they ought to scrupulously distance themselves from anyone who advocates restricting immigration based on race. Racist immigration restrictionists may win elections in Europe, but they will be the kiss of death to any plans to institute a Canadian- or Australian-style immigration policy in America. Second, Republicans ought to point out that it is often minorities who are most harmed by the effects of our current immigration system. Let Democrats explain why we should import more unskilled immigrant laborers when, for example, 39.4% of African American teens are unemployed

Unless someone else has corrected it (I don’t have time to read all the comments below) “300 lifetime partners” means 300 different partners over a player’s lifetime, not 300 partners he has to deal with simultaneously for the rest of his life.

1. We are not short of unskilled immigrants. In fact, the surplus is the primary reason why folks from the left hand side of the bell curve have done so poorly in the last couple of decades. There is no reason to import low IQ Mexicans to do hard menial labor when we have plenty of low IQ Americans who could do it.

2. Brain Drain. I really don’t care if we brain drain the best brains from the Congo. The hard brutal truth is that those “best brains” aren’t going to matter — black African countries just don’t have the IQ capital to maintain an industrial civilization. I’m fine with brain-draining China, since it’s our major competitor in the next 20-50 years. Unless we decide to abdicate, which Obama and the SWPL crowd want to do.

The real problem with taking the best brains from Africa is regression to the mean. The black doctor from the Congo with an IQ of, say 120 is coming from a population with an IQ of 70 or so. So the grandkids are basically retarded. The white or Chinese or even Indian doctor comes from a population with a much higher average IQ and will therefore produce smarter kids.

That said, my ideal immigration policy would be to simply allow a certain number of slots per year and to give them to the folks with the highest scores on IQ tests.

As for getting rid of illegals, that’s easy enough, but it will be left as an exercise for the reader.

Don’t laugh at John Gosselin. Because he’s famous, he scores lots of hot women. Same for (the guy I was trying to think of) Jared Leto. A grade D list actor, who scores amazingly with women. Same with Brand, same with Hugh Grant, same with almost any sleazebag Grade D list male celeb.

Meanwhile, the things that make a male Alpha, power and patronage, matter a lot to men but are irrelevant to women. I used to ask my male HS students who they’d rather be: Arnold Schwarzenneger or Bill Gates. To a boy, they chose Arnold: he got the girls, while Gates was a nerd who had to settle for a PM in his own company.

Is Gates an Alpha leader of men, far more powerful than Arnold, and wielding immense wealth? Sure. But who married the celebrity, with zillion mistresses on the side?

. Male beauty is notoriously hard to judge, but height is definitely a factor for the majority of women. It’s really apparent in the field, and most women will plainly tell you they prefer tall over short.

This is one reason I target short girls. Very short girls. At 5’8″, a 4’11” hottie suits me perfectly.

It’s called niche marketing. No matter what is on offer, it can be buffed up, packaged and sold to a select target audience.

My target audience is young petite hyper feminine hyper sexual SE Asians. As I am a short, ugly, unmasculine looking guy. With a big white cock and an attitude.

Tarl asks, “Uh, whut? Africa has been almost completely decolonized for 40 years. How long are we going to hear that excuse?”

It’s not an excuse. It’s the speed of evolution. It took the west about 1000 years for the general population to really start profitting from Christian flavored colonialism, and they’re still not quite there yet. Full voting rights are still less than 100 years old.

Not all of Africa is in a hell at the same time, and nature still works the same as it always has. I’d wager that part of the reason for the lower average IQ is that past regimes has an interest in maintaining a large low IQ population for labor purposes. Now that things have changed, folks who can’t cope with those changes are simply dying out.

It looks ugly while it’s happening, but the middle ages in Europe weren’t so pretty either. There just wasn’s CNN to dance on the graves back then.

…but they do some nice pieces from time to time on 70+ year old grandmas who are fitter than most American 20 year olds, working in their subsistence farms to feed their grandchildren whose moms have gone to another country to work so they can send money home. Beautiful examples of African will, deremination, resourcefulness, and intelligence.

Even if we are not, on average, the higher IQ group, I’d say that we’re headed for good things. If 70 year old grannies can farm without the benefit of machinery, and make a dollar out of 15 cents, imagine what her daughter will do.

Zippy says, “The black doctor from the Congo with an IQ of, say 120 is coming from a population with an IQ of 70 or so. So the grandkids are basically retarded.”

Not if he’s not ethnically or economically closed in to the point of only having 70 IQ women to select from.

If he has a choice, and selects for brains, then his kids will likely be intelligent too. African guys tend to be under fewer illusions about romance, and have clear slut/wife categories.

So an African doctor isn’t going to marry a pretty woman who’s as dumb as a brick and screwing half the town. He might marry a woman who’s as dumb as a brick but very faithful, but his kids will get more than grounded for missing homework and such. So their IQ’s might not be so high, but you wouldn’t know it from their grades.

GoN: The real issue is that if there aren’t suitable partners available of one’s own ethnicity, or those of one’s ethnicity are unbearably hostile, one does what one has to do to survive and thrive.
———————————————————————-

How did you come to these conclusions? Have you seen some of the beautiful non-white women who defile themselves with black men? Look at Kim Kardashian. Before screwing blacks, she could have had ANY man in the world. The hot (and average-looking) white women who go for blacks aren't doing it because they can't score with white men. Black men are the lucky beneficiaries of the Low Self-Esteem Loophole.
Also, how is being a Negro's girlfriend conducive to 'surviving and thriving'? Getting with a black men = death wish
———————————————————————-

GoN: If a woman has indeed been molested or abused, and it was men of her own ethnicity who did it to her, then they’ve basically broken a trust. Nobody should fault her for going elsewhere since she was an outcast among her own.
———————————————————————–

Um, I don't think having a history of abuse or molestation makes somebody an outcast. It's not like a rape or molestation victim has a red R or M permanently branded on her forehead.
Supposing a chick is an outcast from her race (which would be quite a feat since there are how many millions of Euro whites in this country ?) why go straight to the bottom of the barrel with blacks? Why not Indians or Asians?

My immigration policy is very simple-first, we close all the borders, North and South.

Yes.

I like the lottery system personally. It basically gives everyone an equal shot at coming here. I wouldn’t necessarily weight it against or for “skilled” folk.

The problem with that is that the vast majority of people in the world are only semi-literate, and do not even speak English. Very few have the capacity to earn, say, $60K a year in the US. They would plug into the welfare state, whereas the highly skilled would not – they would pay taxes instead.

But a lottery system would nonetheless cause the 2 most populous countries to send the most, by mere proportion. So PA and Doug1 would still experience the dreaded influx of Asians under Obsidian’s lottery system, since there are about 8 times as many Asians as whites outside the US.

So under both my and Obsidian’s plans, Indian and Chinese would be the two largest immigrant groups. ______________________________

As DaveinHackensack said, why not duplicate the successful systems of Australia and Canada?

I think it would be prudent to bring in those who could earn more than the national average, rather than less. If corporations get to choose to hire the best employees they can get, a country could choose to do the same.

GoN: Ah yes…You’re one of those people in whose understanding of the English language, “raped and molestated” means “protected and valued”.

So we can’t have a “debate” because we don’t even apparently speak the same language.
————————————————————————

*blinks* How did you extrapolate that from what I wrote?
An incidence of rape/abuse/molestation doesn’t HAVE to mark somebody for life or make them an outcast.
People only have the power to shun you for those things if they know about them in the first place. If you don’t want people to know that you’ve been raped/molested/etc. (1) Don’t live in a small town and (2) Don’t blab
about it to people IRL or on Facebook/Myspace/Twitter/etc.

I am not sure why anybody objects to Asian immigration. Unskilled low IQ Third World immigration is an obvious detriment — such immigrants do indeed produce some wealth, but they amount they produce cannot possibly outweigh the long-term costs in terms of added social services, crime, etc.

But Asians tend to have good values and they intermarry in pretty large numbers.

The lottery idea may be “fair” in some silly equalist way, but it’s stupid. Can you imagine a business choosing its employees by lottery?

As an American, I want my country to be as wealthy and prosperous as possible. This is facilitated by bringing in high IQ immigrants who are likely to be socially productive. Lots of these folks will be Asian. Of course we should also allow any whites from South Africa or Zimbabwe to come here at will — fairly high IQ populations, plus they are more likely to be realistic about the consequences of ignoring HBD.

People date interracially because they DON’T put as much irrational fear into the factor of race in choosing a sexual or intimate partner.

For anyone to even consider that cross-cultural, cross-ethnic and cross-racial dating will be stymied, rather than increased, in the next 100 years is a sign of that person’s inability to deal with reality and tendency to quilt themselves in idealism.

Forget your questionable statistics and emotional-appeals to some mythical state of racial and/or cultural purity.

If you are looking to REALLY discuss PRACTICAL solutions for the preservation of a particular culture or nation’s resources, power and energy, rather than whining about the ‘black, yellow and brown immigrant waves’, then you will have to cede the point that “THEY” ARE COMING, [due to low birthrates in the West and the necessity for IQ and capital sources resulting from], and then move onto the idea of how to best utilize them.

System’s Theory and Darwin Will Tell Ya’:

It takes too much energy to limit the inport of new factors into a system. Whether they be entropic or negentropic.

No, for a system to survive and thrive, it must ADAPT to external input by taking it into full account and action. To barricade itself from such things is to atrophy in the delivery of information, energy and resources. No system survives this for long.

seriously, you should consider cleaning up your writing. if you are genuinely a young african american man who wants his ideas to be taken seriously and not just some act someone’s putting on here, you writing style will get in your way.

If you are looking to REALLY discuss PRACTICAL solutions for the preservation of a particular culture or nation’s resources, power and energy, rather than whining about the ‘black, yellow and brown immigrant waves’, then you will have to cede the point that “THEY” ARE COMING, [due to low birthrates in the West and the necessity for IQ and capital sources resulting from], and then move onto the idea of how to best utilize them.

.

is all ONE sentence full of unnecessary verbiage and too many concepts.

does this express what you meant?:

to devise practical solutions to the problem of conserving a nation’s resources or culture in the face of immigration, you first have to cede that “THEY” are coming not matter what. whining about “black, brown and yellow” immigrant waves won’t solve anything. advanced civilization requires not only PEOPLE, but high IQ people to maintain it, and the west breeding below replacement level. the question then becomes not WHERE to get the high iq workers we need, regardless of race, but how best to utilize them when we do.

Cecilia, there is the appearance of things, and then there is the reality of things. I’m not the sort to cry for justice and truth, and then run back under the PC skirt when it suits me. So please try to remember that when talking to me. Also remember where you are, and around here we don’t pussyfoot around. If you’re going to be a woman here, you’ve got to be ready to address some painful truths that might just shine the cold light of day on whatever agenda you keep in the dark under a thin veneer of pseudo antisocial “racism”.

In the context of ethnicity, if a child is molested or an adult raped or abused by one of their own, it is not just a crime. It is a betrayal. It is the people who were entrusted to be their protectors or comrades in society, fucking them over. They are being treated as exploitable, disposable “others” by people who are supposed to be their brothers.

Children and women need male love, protection, and loyalty. If they don’t get it from those in their own culture, they’ll seek it from others at the first opportunity. Early sexual experiences determine later sexual choices.

Their social status may have something to do with their willingness to seek outside help so to speak, but there’s a kind of a curve with that. Lower status women have nothing to lose from it, and higher status women have enough power that they can protect themselves from lower status people who might have a problem with it.

Women in the middle class often make keeping things in their race a moral issue because for them it is a survival issue. If the men of your race determine that they can do better outside, they will unless they are shamed into not doing so. Also, historically and still presently in some areas of the world, a woman going outside her race will not be protected or valued any more than among her own, and perhaps even less.

In an ethnically mixed society though, people have choices, and they will go with who treats them the way they want to be treated. You, as a woman, should not be looking down on a woman who has done what she has to do to have some happiness in her life.

That your boyfriend rejects women who date out is his prerogative, but not his call to say whether it’s a good or a bad thing if he’s shagging you but hasn’t bought you a house or the equivalent based on his financial status, or put a ring on your finger. If he’s using you on an implied temporary basis, then he’s treating you like an other…like someone he doesn’t want to invest in.

If the Black guys you know are willing to put a ring on it, and the White guys you know aren’t, or act like punks you wouldn’t be able to depend on, or would put a ring on you provided you were okay with being treated like garbage, then you would see things very differently.

Welcome to the world of the betrayed White woman. Women who date out are supposed to be the brave exceptions. Now they’re simply the ones who are fielding their options and finding other men giving them something that their own men don’t.

If it helps, in more established and complaicant predominantly Black areas, Hispanic men are actually doing to Black men what you think Black men are doing to you. They’re winning the breeding war because they’re willing to marry or seriously cohabitate, and the Black guys, emulating slut tolerant generic White culture, and delaying, are missing the boat.

It’s not my position that we are. I was just citing the neocons / WSJ types’ arguent.

2. Brain Drain.

The brain drain anti-immigration argument is really just another angle on the subject but my primary concern is with immigration’s effect on us, not on the country of origin.

@ Ruby: What I Suspect Interracial-Dating Opponents Are Ignoring [… spectacular verbosity…] No, for a system to survive and thrive, it must ADAPT to external input by taking it into full account and action. To barricade itself from such things is to atrophy in the delivery of information, energy and resources. No system survives this for long.

Dana,
Seriously, I find your comments directed to Ruby rather odd, considering that just the other day you railed againstwhat you saw as his attempts to dictate to you and obstensibly others, what they should and should not say. Now here you are attempting to tell him how he should write. This, coming from one who makes frequent grammatical errors in her own posts.

Fascinating.

At any rate, the topic of the thread is “How Much Can Game Do?”, to which I have yet to see you or the bulk of the Anti-Black Harangers contribute in any meaningful way. Perhaps if we all focused on that, instead of superflous stuff that at the end of the day means absolutely nothing, we might actually get something constructive done.

“As an American, I want my country to be as wealthy and prosperous as possible. ”

Bingo.

The lottery idea, while superficially “just”, is simply impractical. The IQ threshold for skilled work is going to rise, not fall in the coming decades (especially as more and more technology begins to replace unskilled labor.) While there’s certainly regression to the mean for both above and below average demos, the best way to insure an adequate supply of skilled labor is importing the educated, professional classes.

Politically acceptable eugenics (likely in the form of verifiable birth control, such as the newest IUD, for the under 85 IQ/underclass — an AFDC “one-child policy”) are coming — sooner than you think.

and i find it typical that you mischaracterize a suggestion as some kind of order. he can write how he wants. his writing is awful and it will hamper him. if he wishes to be hampered it’s no skin off my ass.

by the way, i noticed you don’t write like mammy from gone with the wind at f. bardemeau’s blog so i’m pretty sure you know what i’m talking about.

I reject the premise of a “lottery” or any other immigration system entirely. Even if you were to accept the argument that foreign “brains” are a necessity — which they aren’t since Europe managed the renaissance, scientific and industrail revolutions without non-euros — think about externalities.

You have a Chinese-origin missiles command officer at the North Dakota nuke silos. China just mobilized their Pacific fleet and nuked two Australian cities. Will General Zhong at the Minot, ND missle command pull the trigger on his real countrtymen?

i really have to ask you, who died and made you boss of this comments section? i don;t need ruby’s permission to comment on his writing style any more than you need mine to keep posting at me. i’m not here to dance to your tune, i don’t think you are smart, i don’t care about your opinion on game and agree with doug that your sole purpose is to undermine the more timid white men here. as someone who has been a teenage white girl i will tell you what black male game consists of–walking up to every single white woman on the street, irrespective of appearance, and asking her if she’d like some chocolate to go with that vanilla or putting your arm around her and asking her to marry you.

i haven’t read the game books but i’ve read a lot about game on the blogs and agree with it 100%. it is unequivocally effective. it clarified exactly how several notorious cunthounds drove me to the brink of insanity when i was 22. it fully explains how my husband keeps me passionate, chasing after him and on my toes at all times. i come at it from the perspective of the successfully gamed, not the gamer.

OBSIDIAN i am a MASSIVE proponent of GAME for men and of the marriage strike. i don’t comment on it a lot because there’s nothing to say except for “yes”. i wish nothing but an endless sea of pussy and boundless self-confidence on the men here. i am not the strawman you keep constructing and never will be.

if your response to this post indicates in any fashion that you read and understood it i will eat my hat.

Ruby,
In response to your question to me last night, about any noticeable differences btw Black and White Women and Game, in my experience, I would say yes, there is.

As a general rule, my experience has been that it’s not usually a good idea to attempt to chat up a Sista at random on the street (Day Game) or for that matter in the clubs; in other words, the kinds of approaches that Style and Mystery talk about, don’t usually “work” as well with Black Women in my and other Black Men’s experiences. For example, The Black PUA, would say basically the same thing. And this cuts accross all socioecon groups of Black Women, too. The only time the Style/Mystery approaches work to an extent, is when you’re in a more intimate setting, like a dinner party or something like that, where people are kinda expected to make nice and small talk with each other. Otherwise, I wouldn’t advise trying to attempt chatting up Sistas in the way Style or Mystery would White Women.

That said, I think here’s where Peacocking-which Black Men tend to be naturally better than White Men on average anyway-comes into play. I’ve found that the best way to get Black Women is to simply “outshine” everyone else around you. You can attract them by sheer force of display and vibe. Its been suggested by CH and others that Black Women tend to place a higher value on a good looking Man than other racial/ethnic groups, and they go into all kinds of HBD-related theories with that. I’m personally still on the fence when it comes to that, but what I will concede is that Black Women do seem to respond more to a good looking Man, singularly, than do other groups, in this case White Women, on average. So yea, anyway, to get Black Women, you really have to have your Peacocking Game together. Then once they’ve give you say, three strong IOIs, go for it. Keep it brief, and be the first to end the communication. White Women are the ones you can chat up for extended periods of time I’ve found. As a general rule, its not a good idea to attempt to do that with Sistas, at least not within the context of “First Contact”.

As for White Women, being Black and together-by that I mean, being well-spoken, well read, refined, yet still retaining the kind of social intelligence that can only come from a lifetime on the streets, you’ll have an instant edge over most of your White competitors; only the rarified White Males can really compete. Remember, lots of Women say one thing, and do another. Those who say they’d never deal with a Black Man are in my experience the first ones to fall for one. The trick is that he has to be the right one, and like I said, if you’re like I think you are-which is closer to the way I present myself, rather than the “thug” archetype-then you’ll do very, very well with White ladies, should that be your desire. For many White Women, their Kryptonite is a Sidney Poitier or a Denzel Washington.

I’ve always been able to chat up White Women in ways that would be very difficult to do with Black Women, part of this I attribute to cultural differences. Let’s face it, lots of Brothas come on too strong and not only will blow up the set, but ruin it for any Brothas who come after him, too. It may not be rational, but Women are quite prone to typecasting Men, thinking they’re all just alike. So, as a rule, ifi were going to cold approach anyone, it would be a White Woman over a Black one.

But, in general, I try to avoid approaching at all, because I’ve found that you can find yourself spinning your wheels a lot, and as TFH rightly noted, this is one area that can and will dampen your spirit. Instead, I’m a big advocate of what is known as Inner Game-where I work on myself to such an extent that the sheer force of my personality will attract Women to me. And. It. Works.
Trust me.

But that takes lots of time and deep introspection; making sure that what’s on the outside matches that which is on the inside; doing research, like that which I explained above in my study of Dandyism, to make that happen and happen right. The great thing about strong Inner Game, Ruby, is that *most guys, even in the Game, don’t do it*. So right off the bat, you’ll have a strong edge that the vast majority of Men out there don’t have.

More than anyone, Women understand that a Good Man is seriouly hard to find. Especially now, because of all the major social and economic shifts that have occured in our lifetime. There are more knuckleheads and douchebags out there, and they’ll get their due for a season. But eventually any Woman of any consequence will tire of the Male version of a drama queen, and want a real Man to deal with. It will be then that she will actively seekout guys like us. All we have to do is show up, Game faces on.

The style of Game that I advocate, is not the quick and easy path. One reason why Game attracts so many Men, is because notions of being able to makeout with a Woman you just ment 15 minutes ago, has strong appeal. Its completely understandable-most Men don’t get laid at all, so such a thing, regardless of the inherent problems therein, is like Manna from Heaven.

But the quick and easy path does have its downsides. Style talks about this to some extent in his book The Game, and I understand he has written a series of followup books that detail some of this as well. I’ll be getting those “sequels” myself, since I’ll soon be launching a blog of my own, and its always a good thing to educate oneself.

No, my style of Game focuses on the one constant in the storm-YOU. The Women may change, the scenarios may change, but you will always remain the same. And since the only real person over which any real sense of control is YOU, this is what I focus on the most. My take on Game deals with the degree a Man is able to make changes in himself, and then extend said changes out into his environment around himself. It takes time, but it’s well worth it.

I injured my right foot playing football last tuesday, so I have been using a splint since then. Yesterday went to a college barbecue using shorts instead of pants so everyone could see the splint.

It more or less convinved me that girls like sports´ injuries as those work as social proof for them. talked with 8 girls, kissed one, got numbers of 3, and all those asked about my foot. once you have refined your jokes about it, you can say pretty much the same thing to 50 girls and they all react the same way.

I consider myself a pragmatic intellectual, but realize that intelligent people are a dime-a-dozen in this society and their worth is measured by the capacity by which they utilize their time, energy, power and resources to contribute or control.

That’s a damn good observation that goes unnoticed by a lot of people, especially in the knowledge workforce.

Gig,
It’s not what you said above about your injury and how Women responded to it that I take issue with, but rather the overall tone of your posts here that I have problems with. They just come off with the vibe *that you don’t like Women very much*, and see them as a means to an end. Not as people in their own right.

Also, your response to Dave Alex’s comments about Africa, just goes to shore up my point about you.

You know Gig, I get quite a bit of anger from your posts, a kind of bitterness that’s quite off putting. It truly is sad that a Man so young and supposedly has so much going for him, can be so bitter.

I remember reading a PUA guide a while ago that suggested one of the benefits of mastering PUA/Game is that you derive social benefits from the experiences — confidence with people etc — that can be fruitful in your professional life. On the forum at Fast Seduction they used to give a LOT of importance to the topic of dealing with alpha males/becoming one. The thing though is, most guys are just interested in sex, and the promise of PUA is that they will learn cues/routines that will signal alpha male traits long enough to dupe women into the bedroom. A beta believes that he can master this, but he does not believe he can fool other guys.

you go to a barbecue wearing shorts and splint, worried that a G would never use splints+shorts+flip flops and random girls come to ask you about your foot. Than you realize that it is the splint that is causing all the effect. YOu see that yourt status have improved because of a splint.
this is female shallowness in extreme. a splint on the right foot (90% of humans are right handed) is effectively a peacocking device.

CH is the guy who made me see that most men are not getting laid. I never thought that before, but it is shocking when you realize it. And many things start making sense once you realize it. For example, why it is so hard to me to read Vdare, Amren OneSTD and Halfsigma.

then you have perfectly good guys like the “searching” who posted above who cannot get laid and girls getting wet for a guy like me for the most banal reason. a guy they should avoid at all costs. girls will take my cellphone to see the last calls which will include phone numbers of at least 3 different cities(I travel two or three Weekends a month exclusively to chase girls) in the country and instead of concluding “pumper and dumper alert” will get even wetter.

Regarding the sex life at a residential college, it’s undeniably true that popular culture exaggerates how sex occurs. However, what I GUESS is happening is that for every 100 male students, 10 – 15 % gets laid. As for the female students, perhaps 40 – 50% get laid — to those 10 – 20% of men.

A significantly higher fraction of the male students lose out than the women, naturally…

Abe, seminars can’t change a psychological beta into a psychological and home level alpha. Someone who doesn’t have the will to achieve greatness will totally miss the point of being an above average man in order to attract above average women.

Money is money though. There has always been lots of money in telling people they can get strong will rewards with weak will work.

guys, remember: flip flops + shorts + splint on foot is cool. Sports are bad to your health, I play them a lot yet I am on the orthopedist one or two times a year. but sports´injuries are alpha.

enough of girls and game for today. time for race thread.

A clash of Brazil and China for resource control in Africa is coming. Brazilian Construction Companies and Private Equity Funds effectively own Luanda in Angola. And Nigeria offered its entire blue sea oil reserves for Petrobras to explore since it is probably the company which has the largest expertise in such fields in the world. Angola and Nigeria are the crown jewels, and are the base from which the largest prize of all, Katanga Province in Congo, will be taken.

so there is need for Brazilians to travel to Africa. My views about Africans and blacks are more or less standard in the finance industry here. So here is the problem: you can´t send any guy to Africa for more than two weeks. Because he will get crazy for th lack of sex. A guy even described sex with African girls as ” zoophily”, to general laughter.

the reverse is also true. we bring some Minsiter of nothing to Rio or São Paulo, take him to the best whorehouses in town, offer him what no other country on Earth can offer, pay him the standard 10% bribe and he will sign anything no matter how damaging to his people. Africans are childish, they like to overpay just to show how cool they are.

advocate a transition to an immigration system similar to those of Australia or Canada, one that selects for immigrants with high levels of human capital…

As DaveinHackensack said, why not duplicate the successful systems of Australia and Canada?

It is not clear to me from casual investigation that the immigration policies of these countries are “successful” even in these terms alone (is a policy “successful” if it brings in smart people but undermines national cohesion?). The wiki article on Canadian immigration policy stresses that Canada seeks “ethnic diversity”, which is not usually a code phrase for “we’re looking for smart people”. It says they have three criteria: Family Class (closely related persons of Canadian residents), Independent Immigrants (supposedly “smart people”) and Refugees. It says that the “skilled workers” were 19.8% of the immigrants in 2005 – so basically only 1 in 5 of their immigrants are “selected for high levels of human capital”. The Australians are similar – they have a “humanitarian program” (refugees), a “family program”, and a skilled immigrant program. Roughly 64% of the official places are set aside for “skilled immigrants”. That’s great, but many observers claim the principal (and not unintended) effect has been to suppress wages for skilled natives of both countries. Both Canada and Australia have brought in large numbers of Asians, but that certainly does not demonstrate that all these immigrants were intelligent and highly skilled.

As a practical matter, how do you implement a “skilled immigrants” policy? How do you verify and assess skills and education of people who are not in your country yet? What can you assume about the educational and social qualities of people from underdeveloped countries? Are you going to rely on employers to test immigrants after the arrive? (Too expensive, and employers won’t do it.) Will the government administer tests and deport those who fail? (I doubt they will.)

Let’s say Australia and Canada decided to admit the “smartest” people from the Philippines, China, Indonesia, and Pakistan. That could be HUNDREDS of millions of people coming to countries with currently only tens of millions of people. You could easily double or triple the population of Canada or Australia with people from these countries alone. Is that really a good idea, even if all the immigrants are “smart” and “highly skilled”? Who benefits from this? Does the ordinary Canadian or Australian benefit? These nations would no longer be “Canada” or “Australia” as currently understood, that’s for sure.

It is clear that considering only the “smartness” of potential immigrants is not a sound basis for immigration policy. There is a good case for an immigration pause for Canada, Australia, and the USA, among other countries, regardless of how “smart” the immigrants supposedly are.

If Canada’s and Australia’s immigration systems were so “succesful” there woudl be no Jamaican/Afro slums in Toronto, mosques and madrassas all over Alberta, and extra-judicial Muslim-supremacist think-crime courts. Didn’t Muslim fanatics recently plot to shoot up the Ottawa parliament and kill the PM?

And in Australia there would be no Asian supremacist movement, Leb gang-rapes and beach race riots.

Think of it this way: on one side of the immigration debate, you have the enemy: the side that want to destroy you and take your homeland. Lucifer is an honest representative of this side.

On the other side, you have people who are uneasy with immigration into their land, because they sense the real motivations of immigration pushers. Alas some of you guys try to play nice with Population Replacers by sounding conciliatory… “I’m OK as long as it’s smart immigrants…” Weak! you’re either for Population Replacement, or against it. Choose a side.

I keep hurting my ankle playing sport. Maybe I should wear my support bandage when shopping and roll my trouser leg up so people can see.

Obsidian, I’m grateful for the effort you put into your comment for me. A few questions:

– I’ve never been to a club so I don’t know about this but wouldn’t sitting with my back to a bar for a long time watching people be seen as weird? I understand that this would be research but aren’t people going to be looking at me and wondering what I’m doing? Again, I’ve no experience of the environment so maybe no one will notice, but I feel uncomfortable and self conscious very easily.

Gig…I’ve been reading your nonsense for a while now and I have a question: are you a teenager? Because it’s not even what you say that concerns me but *how* you say. You have a better english than myself (10x better) so I’m pretty sure you could choose your words more wisely, you have such a good vocabulary. You speak a perfect english, you have access to a good education so I’m really confused about your intentions when you say what you say here.
Your takes on black people in Brazil, brazilian northeast, the role of the africans in our culture makes you come off as naive, childish, spoiled and…dumb, if I may say. A college student would know that things aren’t as you put at all. I don’t think you’re in college yet. If you are, I’ll give you a sugestion: read Gilberto Freyre. I recommend “Casa Grande e Senzala”. Then “Sobrados e Mucambos”. I had my share of doubts and preconceptions before and those books really enlightened me. 🙂 these books are not only a source of good and necessary information about your own country, but a fun reading too. You’ll lose this attitude towards blacks and african people once you realize that they are responsible for the good things that Brazil is known for. And Portugueses, however, are responsible for our never ending misery and all the social problems, not the africans.
Even when you’re right…it’s not even what you state, it’s about the words you choose. It’s almost as if you’re one of those idiots from the south(east) generally people who don’t travel that much but are full of preconceptions regarding other regions of our country.
Don’t get me wrong. I even think you do this on purpouse from time to time to sound “alpha”. But isn’t working.
You’r just giving us all a bad name.

@gig – “Yesterday went to a college barbecue using shorts instead of pants so everyone could see the splint”

I have to learn to read the entire post. I didn’t read the foot part. I thought you had a certain body part splinted. Especially when you added ” It more or less convinved me that girls like sports´ injuries as those work as social proof for them”

I was thinking sport injury of the…ahem…what kind of social proof is that??

I think an earlier discussion on penis size has tainted my reading comphrension. Must Get Over That.

“you’ll have an instant edge over most of your White competitors; only the rarified White Males can really compete”

Since this is the crux of every one of your posts, you might at least provide some sort of non-anecdotal evidence. Citing an episode of the Wire doesn’t count either.”

O: Case in point: Barack Obama. How much of the Single White Female Vote did he win over John McCain? I believe he has written about this, too I think.

Other examples: Denzel Washington, Sidney Poitier, on a good day Will Smith, etc, et al.

Put up Deion Saunders next to Peyton Manning, ask the ladies which they would go out with.

Now, before the howling starts, I have and will continue to assist my White brothers in achieving happiness. I’m simply responding to the idea that all Black Men are thuggish brutes-not true at all.

Put Michael Strahan next to Howie Long and ask the ladis which they would choose. Don’t be surprised at the result.

My singular point in all of this isn’t to put down White Men per se, but to *lift up Black Men*, because in these parts too many of you are stuck on stupid with this notion that all Black Men adhere to the Thug Nigga stereotype. And I know, for a fact, that it just ain’t true.

ALL of my mentors came a lot closer to Poitier and Washington than Lil’ John and Nelly. And as for myself, I never carried myself in a thug fashion. Never.

Searching,
Nah, don’t sweat going to a club alone. You’ll blend right in if you do it right. Jeans and a polo shirt are cool, *if* the kinds of spots you go to also have guys wearing similar things. Eventually you’ll want to break out of that in order to standout from the pack, but for now it’s cool. The anonymity will help you a lot.

Sitting with your back to the bar isn’t weird at all. Remember most folk won’t be paying too much attention to you anyway. But if it really bothers you, see if you can search out a relatively dark corner or something.

But the main stumbling block for you to overcome is the extreme shyness. A *bit* shy *can* be endearing, but too much of it can be crippling to a Man. You have to overcome this, and the only way to do so is by interacting with people.

Start out by simply having brief conversations with others, both sexes. You’ll also need a social circle of guy friends, because Women judge Men on the kinds of social connects they have. Contrary to popular opinion, lone wolf types usually don’t see much action between the sheets.

Now, don’t put the cart before the horse here. Go through the list of Alpha traits first. Then, visit a few spots. Try out a few to see which makes you feel a bit more comfortable. Not all clubs will appeal to you, and that’s OK.

I have read a few of your posts, and I agree with you — my picture of you is that you started out much closer to an inhibited intelligent guy than an uninhibited simple guy.

So you probably started studying game from the point of view of a “geek” which is fine, but just to contrast it with a guy coming from the “hey shawty turn around someone call 911 on that ass” mindset.

Anyways … I have been to clubs and it’s true, in the last 10 years I would say it’s become much more socially acceptable for white girls to take black guys home. And in fact, many I’ve seen prefer the black guy inherently because he’s black. Like many Russian chicks for example, who are looking for something different and exciting. I know because I hang around lots of Russians in clubs.

The black guy doesn’t even have to DO much besides bring SOME kind of style. I’ve seen black guys in mediocre looking clothes, etc. and the girl just games them. The black guy just takes it slow and then holds her ass and then they make out. They just have to look CLEAN, not grungy.

I do believe it is unfair to criticize them for their lack of game. The social models followed by societies in countries such as India, for example, lead to more united families, and stronger communities. It is also accepted for men in these societies to have mistresses, so long as they continue being there for their wives and children. They have something that for them works, leads to strong social networks and currently, is allowing them to accumulate wealth at a faster pace than the cultural wasteland of the United States. Why on earth would they change their model? They look at the United States and laugh at them for their cultural foolishness.

Economic factors and the desire to accumulate wealth when you are surrounded by poverty should not be underestimated. The survival instinct is just as powerful as the sexual one, and the model they are following is fulfilling precisely the former one. I myself have lived in countries of extreme poverty, including one during a bloody civil war and have witnessed this first hand. Humans have always survived better in groups than individually, which is why developing countries will always cling to the family model.

All this being said, I do believe there is merit in the idea that Indian men (I am unable to speak knoweledgably of Chinese or Japanese men, so will stick to Indian) running game on a day-to-day basis. My fiance is Indian, and although he is incredibly charitable, spiritual, compassionate, respectful and loving, he demands and expects morally-principled behavior out of those around him. No man has ever impressed me the way he has, and I firmly believe that the culturally ingrained belief of a man’s position as the head of the household and society has had great influence in shaping him as an individual. He is 120% man to me, and I love him for everything that he is.

There is a cultural nuance with black people living in America that needs to be considered. There is a big difference, culturally and socioeconomically, between African-Americans and African immigrants. The latter value education and strong families far more than the former. It is so pronounced that the children of these immigrants are chastised by their American counterparts for “acting white” when they receive good grades and pursue college education. The latter have a lot more motivation in the sense that they tend to sacrifice a lot in order to provide for their children education opportunities unavailable at home.

As an example, my best friend is Nigerian. She comes from a large family of seven brothers and sisters. All of them are incredibly well-spoken, are pressured by their parents to go to medical school or other professional vocations, speak at least three languages, very Catholic and are happily married or in serious relationships bordering on engagements. Their fathers, unlike many African-Americans, play an integral role in their upbringing. The women are respectful to their husbands, and the children are for the most part affluent.

Gig,
Can’t say I know what its like to wear a splint or cast to a gathering with the express purpose of picking up gals, but what I will say is that once I found out the sexual nature of what Women were like, I still didn’t come away with the kinds of bitter feelings, Man. I simply accepted the fact that Women are Human Beings too.

And sure, there are Women out there who are attracted to douchebags. So? That has nothing to do with what MY choices are-nor of Searching’s either. The point of Game is to be able to determine which Women we want to be bothered with. That Women can and often will be swayed by their base animal natures doesn’t bother me in the least; I simply don’t bother with that kind of Woman, is all. And the same choice is available for any Man with Game.

You know, I find it fascinating that so many of you have the worst to say about anything of African origins, especially when it comes to Men-about how we engage in low class and crass Game, this, that-yet, its been my direct experience that some of thee biggest assholes and douchebags around aren’t Black Men, they’re White, and quite a few, right here in this very forum. Quite frankly I’m appalled by how some of you proudly speak of how badly you can treat another human being, as if that’s something to be proud of. Well, maybe that’s a way for you to get laid; but it isn’t mine.

In the end Gig, you can and will do what you wanna do. But from where I sit, by the way you talk and presumably act, maybe Lulu DaSilva was on to something when he made his remarks about who was behind the world’s recent financial meltdown. With guys like you at the helm, no one needs any Darkies to sink the ship.

“Alas some of you guys try to play nice with Population Replacers by sounding conciliatory… “I’m OK as long as it’s smart immigrants…” Weak! you’re either for Population Replacement, or against it. Choose a side.”

I’d like to see some convincing evidence that the “smart immigrants” are going to be a problem down the line. Hey, I could be wrong, it’s just not prima facie troublesome. “Smart” people assimilate within a generation.

As for what it does for average Americans, the issue isn’t what it does for the average American. We’re not talking politics here. The issue is what it does for the future of America — economics, civics, sophistication of society, etc.

The trouble I see on the horizon is a rising master class exploiting the middle classes using the votes of the underclass. That can’t be allowed, and expanding the middle classes is a bulwark against it. The other stuff may be problematic down the line — it’s just hardly critical at the moment.

I’d like to see some convincing evidence that the “smart immigrants” are going to be a problem down the line.

There is a long record of immigrants betraying their new country to their old one. Chinese spy agencies attempt to recruit Chinese-Americans, and have done so with some success. This doesn’t mean all immigrants are necessarily disloyal – but it is “a problem” that needs to be taken into account.

“Smart” people assimilate within a generation.

Perhaps they would if the government actually required and encouraged assimilation. Right now the US government encourages the opposite (ethnic balkanization).

As for what it does for average Americans, the issue isn’t what it does for the average American. We’re not talking politics here. The issue is what it does for the future of America — economics, civics, sophistication of society, etc.

The government should be responsive to the wishes of the average American in this matter, but it isn’t.

The trouble I see on the horizon is a rising master class exploiting the middle classes using the votes of the underclass. That can’t be allowed, and expanding the middle classes is a bulwark against it.

Can’t be allowed? It is happening right now. The elites are deliberately undermining, not expanding, the middle class. That’s what immigration does (duh!), and it’s not an accident.

xsplat i was trying to rewrite using as many of his original words as possible, but cleaned up for clarity. agreed about utilize–it should only be used in the manner they used it in “idiocracy”. thanks for the tip!

But, as a short Man at 5′8″, I can tell you, for a fact, that it is still very possible for such a Man to score. And score big, ie, w/much taller gals. I’ve done and am doing it, as we speak.

This is essentially what I said originally to Kshatriya(sp?); saying that height is a feminine ideal, but idealized male attractiveness isn’t the only factor or a particularly important one. I prefer blondes as part of my personal ideal of female beauty (cliche, I know) but certainly don’t restrict myself to them. Most of the women I talk to are not blonde, as most women are not blonde. Similarly, with women and tall men; most men are not tall.

I’m not much taller than you at 5’10”, and I frequently roll with two men that are over 6′, which probably makes me seem shorter than I actually am as well, so I know what you are saying. You aren’t talking beauty though, it’s Game. Charisma or charismatic affectation means much more than height or any single other physical characteristic.

I still think my point stands about ideal male beauty though. To such an extent that objective beauty exists (and I think it does), being tall is part of that ideal. That is the emphasis on height, and why ‘short and ugly’ are mentioned so much. CH mentions height as a factor in his ‘Market Value’ post. It’s a valid measurement of ‘Market Value’, but only worth +/- 1 point; so not a bid deal, which both you and I agree on.

Question for the girls here, but only the good looking ones. It’s an erotic survey, if you want to think of it this way.

It has to do with what gives you the most intense load of pleasure. Naturally, the obvious answer is that it would be a sweaty, hot, passionate sex with a gorgeous superstar alpha. But is there another possibility?

Sex with a superalpha is awesome for you… but one element that’s missing is his appreciation of your body and your beauty. No doubt you are hot… and he likes it… but he gets supermodel 10’s whenever he wants to. Is there a possibility of your pleasure being maximized by the degree of your partner’s pleasure in terms of his gratefulness for havng you?

In other words, how about sex with an undeserving partner? I certainly do not mean someone prima facie disgusting. No bums with mouthsores, no sweaty fatasses, no liverspotted old men.

Instead, picture a very shy young virgin boy. Or a beta, timid cubicle dweller who can only dream about a woman like you. Or a sweet, kindly old man who took great care to look nice for you. Pick the one you like best. Say, a virgin young boy.

You lead him to the bathroom, and let him watch you bathe yourself. He sees your perky, womanly breasts, your long legs as you raise them above the bath foam, and after you have soaked in the luxuriousness of the bath and saw him look at you as though he were witnessing a miracle, you show him your your rich, dark, bush as you stand up and step out of the tub, and reach for the towel.

You come out, dry yourself in his presence, and then you lead him to the master bedroom, where you let him undress, and you fall into the billows of linen, as the evening sun’s rays stream in through the window and birds outside chirp lazily.

You make love slowly, all avening, and into the night. And it’s nothing like he’s ever experienced, or will, ever again. You aren’t just a woman to him, you are a goddess. What you gave him, will over time drive him to insanity. Or to penning an epic poem fourty years later. Either way, he will never forget you.

Is there a possibility of your pleasure being maximized by the degree of your partner’s pleasure in terms of his gratefulness for havng you?

I’ve been with a guy who has slept with many, many women, and only attractive ones at that. My friends envied me for dating him; he was likewise very attractive – a veritable 9. When we started dating, despite the sex being theoretically great, I was always concerned about being mediocre in terms of the women he’s had. It did detract a bit from the experience.

However, being with a shy, virgin beta boy is far less appealing. Guys who place me on a pedestal make me feel undeserving. Adulation is a strange feeling. I can’t be with someone who is in awe of me because of the power imbalance. I feel like the dominant, strong partner and it’s not a feeling I desire.

I’ve certainly had beta boys (I’m thinking of one in particular) fawn over everything about my being, but the thought of letting him touch me actually repulses me. At that point, it’s almost a perverse pleasure, or fetishization of my presence.

PA I’m sure I’m not the ‘type’ you’d like answering your question. I’m not an A cup, nor do I have generously long legs at 5’5″ nor do I have “rich, dark bush” cuz I’m blond. But…I thought I’d answer anyway.

I would NOT want to be worshipped in the bedroom. I want to used, perhaps gently abused, and I want to respond to his wants, needs and even demands. If he worships me what demands will he make?

My advice for anyone beautiful or not is enjoy sex to its fullest. Enjoyment for me comes from trusting my partner (no one night stands) and then allowing myself to lose inhibitions. Sex is not meant to be an act where you think too hard. I guess what I mean is when I’m with my partner in an intimate situation the last thing I’m thinking about is “am I as hot as he has had or can get?”. So pleasure for me would NOT be increased if I was sure he’d never had hotter cuz it wouldn’t have crossed my mind in the first place. I’m not saying I’m a 10 either, I know I’m not. That said I like to believe the few men I’ve been with will never forget me – super alphas or not. 🙂

O: Case in point: Barack Obama. How much of the Single White Female Vote did he win over John McCain? I believe has written about this, too I think.

No more than the typical Democrat. Single females of all races vote Democrat in overwhelming numbers. Obama showed little if any increase in tradition numbers for a Democrat, contrary to myth.

And just to add Obama only managed to get little over 60% of registered BLACK voters to come out and vote. Again contrary to the myth that you have reinforced with claims of near 100% black voter turnout.

Other examples: Denzel Washington, Sidney Poitier, on a good day Will Smith, etc, et al.

And Gerard Butler, Sean Connery and George Clooney would smoke all three in the preferences of White/Latino/Asian and East Indian women.

Put up Deion Saunders next to Peyton Manning, ask the ladies which they would go out with.

Put Deion next to Jason Sehorn and again it would be laughable. Sehorn by a mile.

My problem is, again, many people here seem to fixate on *one* kind of Black Man, and stubbornly refuse to see any other kind. Even when one is POTUS. That’s quite disturbing to me.

Black males born of White women and raised by their White grandparents in Hawaii are going to be on average less thuggish and have higher IQs than black males with two black parents and raised in a predominantly black environment.

I find it particularly interesting how both “Game Skeptic” and Yuri have never actually answered the questions put to them by me:

1. Have either of you read The Game or the Mystery Method? If so, what are your thoughts? If not, why?

And

2. What’s your score? How old are you? What kind of Women do you want to attract?

I notice that both Men talk about all manner of diversionary stuff that doesn’t mean anything at the end of the day, because it’s hard to work on oneself. It’s easier to put the blame on others, real or imagined. This is a common theme here that should stop.

And it takes an exceptional quality and character to dedicate oneself to change. Thus far, I’m not seeing that in Yuri, or “Game Skeptic”. Perhaps that might to be the blame for their angst and borderline bitterness.

Put it this way. You’re pretty, we’re sexless, and a girl finally said yes to one’s sexual demands. That will induce a sizable bit of female worship from certain types of males. In contrast, guys who have had considerable sexual experience have no need for that since one could argue that they’re overexposed and can easily secure sex from other women.

PA that is exactly why I am here, to contribute to culture. Thanks for allowing me the opportunity. Responding to soft porn erotica is exactly what I’ve been placed here to do. If I didn’t have some societal hang ups I’d post video of my adventures just so others could learn. Unfortunately I’ve been stuck with morals and values due to early influences and alas am not able to contribute as much as readers would like. Damn shame.

Some of you might take what I meant literally. It’s happened before. So if you saw me right now you’d know I have my tongue firmly planted inside my left cheek. Just sayin…

O: Case in point: Barack Obama. How much of the Single White Female Vote did he win over John McCain? I believe CH has written about this, too I think.

W: No more than the typical Democrat. Single females of all races vote Democrat in overwhelming numbers. Obama showed little if any increase in tradition numbers for a Democrat, contrary to myth.

O: According to professional polling agencies, more young people, of which many SWFs are, voted for Obama than any other Presidential election on record. If I’m wrong, please provide source data.

W: And just to add Obama only managed to get little over 60% of registered BLACK voters to come out and vote. Again contrary to the myth that you have reinforced with claims of near 100% black voter turnout.

O: According to professional polling agencies, more Blacks voted for Obama than ever in American history. Are you saying that this is wrong? And if so, could you please cite your source?

O: Other examples: Denzel Washington, Sidney Poitier, on a good day Will Smith, etc, et al.

W: And Gerard Butler, Sean Connery and George Clooney would smoke all three in the preferences of White/Latino/Asian and East Indian women.

O: Doubtful. The NYT published a big study on Female Sexuality earlier this year, you might have heard of it. In it they said that according to studies taken, Washington was deemed the best composite Male based on a number of metrics. But again, we’ll put it to the test, fair enough? And remember, we’re not talking appeal to White Women only-we’re talking appeal to Women in general-White, Black and Other. I maintain what I said.

O: Put up Deion Saunders next to Peyton Manning, ask the ladies which they would go out with.

W: Put Deion next to Jason Sehorn and again it would be laughable. Sehorn by a mile.

O: Done. I say DS smokes Seahorn. On the field and off.

W: And put THIS generic and relatively typical black athlete against your average non-athlete White man and it’s simply NO contest.

O: Let’s put it to the test then, shall we? Do you have a website? Put up a poll, I’ll devise it and we’ll agree on the terms, and we’ll see. Fair enough?

O: My problem is, again, many people here seem to fixate on *one* kind of Black Man, and stubbornly refuse to see any other kind. Even when one is POTUS. That’s quite disturbing to me.

W: Black males born of White women and raised by their White grandparents in Hawaii are going to be on average less thuggish and have higher IQs than black males with two black parents and raised in a predominantly black environment.

O: Even if that were true, the proble I have with you and others here, and TFH spoke to this point eloquently, is that you don’t allow for true merit-based considerations that by definition have to focus on the individual; I’ve mentioned the example of Denzel Washington and Sidney Poitier several times, and it seems to go right over your and quite a few other people’s heads. This is the problem I have with your position, Willard. You’re too quick to use generalities when you should be focusing on individuals. Its like trying to win a fencing match with a broadaxe.

The point is that if a Woman, regardless of color, could choose an articulate, refined, yet socially saavy, well dressed Black Man, chances are, she will. We have too many examples, high profile cases, to prove it.

“1. Have either of you read The Game or the Mystery Method? If so, what are your thoughts? If not, why?”

My thoughts are that smart men (like Mystery clearly is) who repeatedly bang not-so-smart women (like he clearly has) are extraordinarily insecure. A little too much focus on quantity over overall quality, with lip service to the contrary.

This obsession with getting a 9 or a 10, which Mystery clearly encourages in his materials, is some whacked out shit.

HotEnough ™ + other qualities (intelligence, character, kindness) beats SuperHot any day of the week.

You seem intelligent, why not grow a spine? You (and many older indians and their kids) are ashamed of what they are, and spend a lot of effort trying to justify or explain to people who only want to hear that ‘they’ are the best.

Stop caring about their opinions, they don’t matter (as much as you think). Would you rather be the token indian at a white event (trying to explain yourself) or just be what you are – as an individual human being.

aoefe is revolted with me since i negged her HARD by saying that her avatar looked like Ian in Hamburg´s. she has been changing it compulsively since then. I is the internet-equivalent of negging her weight

@ aoefe

don´t blame me. it is your fickle gender that gives or takes status to men based on solid and profound criteria like being unable to kick a ball and kicking the ground instead, generating all that splint stuff

I have a simple set of questions for determining immigrant suitability.

1] Can the person do the fucking job!
2] Is the person excessively religious (red flag).
3] Is the person interested in changing (if the society around him treats him well).
4] Does the person have skills, abilities and motivations that would make him an asset.

the world is cruel. I spent weeks here calling the HBD blogosphere bitter then I proceeded with my one-man Inquisition agaisnt commenters I deemed bitter

Now gig´s Holy Office is in shambles. Obsidian has called me bitter so many times this weekend that I am almost joining a Counter Strike multiplayer team. No more nightclubs on weekends, I will from now on only kill SWAT guys

1] Can the person do the fucking job!
2] Is the person excessively religious (red flag).
3] Is the person interested in changing (if the society around him treats him well).
4] Does the person have skills, abilities and motivations that would make him an asset.

I agree, mostly.

If you want to adjust and wordsmith your immigration position for the running list, put forth a 3-4 word position reflecting the above.

Gig I forgot it was you who said the Ian Hamburger thing. LOL. I’m compulsive in general when it comes to changing things. You like the new one?? huh huh…please say yes or you’ll make me change it again. 😉

Nicole, Gig was not bemoaning the world for being cruel. He was beign his wise-ass self, while noting the dark irony of being called bitter when heretofore he has been a one-man anti-bitterness crusader.

yuri: HotEnough ™ + other qualities (intelligence, character, kindness) beats SuperHot any day of the week.

I agree, but natural alphas probably wouldn’t. On a related note, there was an article in Pyschology Today a few months back which described study demonstrating that physically average or below average men deemed women with some bodily idiosyncracy (like a too big nose) more attractive, while better equipped guys were drawn to what you call the “SuperHot.”

The scholars behind the study theorized that betas prefer imperfect women as such females are less likely to cuckold them, if I remember correctly.

P.S. – does anyone know the origin and significance of the banner picture?

I definitely started out thinking I just need “hot enough” and all the other qualities.

But then as I broke up with my gf and ventured out in the dating market, I got more corrupted.

Now I want to get together with lots of SuperHot girls on the way to finding my long term partner. That way I get this obsession out of my system. I find that most famous guys who can have “any” type of woman they want, wind up going for not-so-hot chicks. Whereas rich but not-so-famous guys continue to go for really hot ladies. I think I’ll eventually grow out of it and settle down.

Obsidian — You are probably correct. That a woman, regardless of color, would prefer a Black guy with comparable Socio-economic status, due to perceived at least (and perhaps real) advantage in testosterone/aggression (and PC/Multiculti bonus points).

Therefore, in a free market for mates, a goodly number of White, Asian, and Latino women will choose these Black men. Leaving the men of those groups out of luck … because Black women are VERY reluctant to date outside their race and obesity levels reduce their group average attractiveness.

Assuming you are right (and I think you are), then you will see a huge source of tension, given that there is already a serious shortage of women, thus pretty much guaranteeing the losers in the sexual free market to game the system to their advantage … through the only avenue available which is anonymous violence. You can already see this in reverse with the Camp Pendleton Marine Base case — where Black Marines killed their White Sergeant and his wife for marrying a Black woman. After first assaulting them.

I don’t think the PC/Multiculti rules are going to hold much longer in a sustained recession, obvious advantages for favored groups (Blacks and Hispanics) and Whites being shown (the St. Louis beating) they must get to the back of the bus (or get beaten). Particularly with long-term unemployed White guys (who maybe are underemployed working as a janitor) there is little to lose.

“Obsidian — You are probably correct. That a woman, regardless of color, would prefer a Black guy with comparable Socio-economic status, due to perceived at least (and perhaps real) advantage in testosterone/aggression (and PC/Multiculti bonus points).”

O: According to professional polling agencies, more young people, of which many SWFs are, voted for Obama than any other Presidential election on record. If I’m wrong, please provide source data.

Your fantasies about Obama magically pulling Single White Females more than other Democratic candidates is simply wrong. If anything he might have pulled higher numbers of younger Single White men than other Democratic candidates. But where is your data to support your claim?

O: According to professional polling agencies, more Blacks voted for Obama than ever in American history. Are you saying that this is wrong? And if so, could you please cite your source?

Where is your data? On other occasions you ridiculously claimed a near 100% black turnout.

O: Doubtful. The NYT published a big study on Female Sexuality earlier this year, you might have heard of it. In it they said that according to studies taken, Washington was deemed the best composite Male based on a number of metrics.

According to ONE White woman in that article.

But again, we’ll put it to the test, fair enough? And remember, we’re not talking appeal to White Women only-we’re talking appeal to Women in general-White, Black and Other. I maintain what I said.

I maintain that you are clearly wrong. And I said “Gerard Butler, Sean Connery and George Clooney would smoke all three in the preferences of White/Latino/Asian and East Indian women.”

O: Done. I say DS smokes Seahorn. On the field and off.

Again clearly laughable. An ugly freak like Deion wouldn’t stand a chance OFF the field against Sehorn, just ask Brown Sugar. Deion was better on the field no doubt, except when it came to tackling. Deion was super fast but a bit of a pussy.

O: Let’s put it to the test then, shall we? Do you have a website? Put up a poll, I’ll devise it and we’ll agree on the terms, and we’ll see. Fair enough?

I don’t have a website but have you ever gotten any therapy as to why you are pathologically obsessed with “Beating Whitey”? And why you are obsessed with the likes of Peyton Manning?

I maintain that as a black boy in America you have sublimated and projected your Oedipal issues on to the White Man/Daddy and the White Woman/Mommy. You seem to have an inordinate Oedipal need for the acceptance of the White Woman/Mommy over the White Man/Daddy.

You have a desperate psycho-sexual need to “get Daddy’s woman”. To prove you can out compete him for her love and sexual access. This includes your vicarious sense of “getting Daddy’s woman” through real or imagined black male sexual access to White Women/Daddy’s Woman.

Lay off the astrology BS and get some counseling.

O: Even if that were true, the proble I have with you and others here, and TFH spoke to this point eloquently, is that you don’t allow for true merit-based considerations that by definition have to focus on the individual;

You might be confusing me with other posters.

I’ve mentioned the example of Denzel Washington and Sidney Poitier several times, and it seems to go right over your and quite a few other people’s heads.

This is the problem I have with your position, Willard. You’re too quick to use generalities when you should be focusing on individuals. Its like trying to win a fencing match with a broadaxe.

This coming from somebody who is obsessed with race fantasies that black males can overwhelmingly out compete White men for White women.

The point is that if a Woman, regardless of color, could choose an articulate, refined, yet socially saavy, well dressed Black Man, chances are, she will. We have too many examples, high profile cases, to prove it.

The reality is given the choice White women/Asian/upscale Latina and Indian women will OVERWHELMINGLY chose a White man over a black male. Not that I care about this but you do and you are pathetically wrong in your claims.

Not exclusively but overwhelmingly. In fact I would argue quality White women/Asian/Latino/Indian women would probably chose a White WOMAN over a black male.

Whiskey – “Therefore, in a free market for mates, a goodly number of White, Asian, and Latino women will choose these Black men. Leaving the men of those groups out of luck … because Black women are VERY reluctant to date outside their race and obesity levels reduce their group average attractiveness.”

It may mean nothing, but I saw three couples that consisted of thin white herbs with short, chubby black women in Bethesda yesterday. Could it be a match between white guys who are sick of the expectations of white women and black women who would like to be more middle class (and who would like to have a little Obama)? I dunno, I didn’t talk to any of them.

And remember, we’re not talking appeal to White Women only-we’re talking appeal to Women in general-White, Black and Other.

I think the statistics are against you in this argument Women may be less selective than men in the importance of physical features but are more discriminating when it comes to race than men are.

Black women are more notorious for this than any other ethnic group (to almost the point of freezing out non-blacks entirely, and are even allegedly harder to Game for even black men), but as a percentage of population they wouldn’t significantly effect the outcome of an empirical study (could one actually be conducted, which seems nearly impossible). If you actually were breaking down targets along lines of percentages of the population and target selection was not up to the participating PUAs, then the majority of targets would be suburban (and lower class) white women, who I think would overwhelming go with a white man (all other things being equal) because most women tend to be predisposed towards racial exclusivity.

Hi Willard,
I’m not surprised you haven’t answered my questions and join the Playa Hatin’ ranks just like Yuri and “Game Skeptic”. Birds of a feather and all that.

Let’s see what you have to say here:

W: Obsidian

O: According to professional polling agencies, more young people, of which many SWFs are, voted for Obama than any other Presidential election on record. If I’m wrong, please provide source data.

W: Your fantasies about Obama magically pulling Single White Females more than other Democratic candidates is simply wrong. If anything he might have pulled higher numbers of younger Single White men than other Democratic candidates. But where is your data to support your claim?

O: Uh-uh. I asked you first.

O: According to professional polling agencies, more Blacks voted for Obama than ever in American history. Are you saying that this is wrong? And if so, could you please cite your source?

W: Where is your data? On other occasions you ridiculously claimed a near 100% black turnout.

O: Doubtful. The NYT published a big study on Female Sexuality earlier this year, you might have heard of it. In it they said that according to studies taken, Washington was deemed the best composite Male based on a number of metrics.

W: According to ONE White woman in that article.

O: Yup. One of the biggest and oldest newspapers in the world. What’s your countersource, bub?

O: But again, we’ll put it to the test, fair enough? And remember, we’re not talking appeal to White Women only-we’re talking appeal to Women in general-White, Black and Other. I maintain what I said.

W: I maintain that you are clearly wrong. And I said “Gerard Butler, Sean Connery and George Clooney would smoke all three in the preferences of White/Latino/Asian and East Indian women .”

Let’s try this again: ALL WOMEN: White, Black, Indian, Latina, etc, et al. ALL. And in America, for real, we’re talking about White and Black Women, with Hispanic Women bringing up the rear. This is why the NYT article was so important. Because Denzel is an actor that has to be able to appeal not just to Blacks but to Whites as well. This is why he’s more important than say, a Gerard Butler or a Tom Cruise, because neither can appeal to Black Women the way Denzel can. Plus, Denzel can and does appeal to White Women as well. Again, it’s in black and white-pardon the pun-Willie.

O: Done. I say DS smokes Seahorn. On the field and off.

W: Again clearly laughable. An ugly freak like Deion wouldn’t stand a chance OFF the field against Sehorn, just ask Brown Sugar.

O: I just did. Deion, by a country mile. 😉 Sehorn doesn’t have a thimble’s worth of the style, flair or charisma of Deion. Didn’t you read what they said above, lunkhead? Women don’t respond to looks as much as Men do, although one would be hardpressed to find many Women who’d say that Deion was unattractive.

W: Deion was better on the field no doubt, except when it came to tackling. Deion was super fast but a bit of a pussy.

O: He was too pretty to get dirty tackling. He’d just smoke you on the flat and push you out of bounds. And I’m the same way-wrasslin’ is for White boys. That’s why I studied stuff like Judo and Aikido. You shall not touch me w/your grubby hands.

O: Let’s put it to the test then, shall we? Do you have a website? Put up a poll, I’ll devise it and we’ll agree on the terms, and we’ll see. Fair enough?

W: I don’t have a website but have you ever gotten any therapy as to why you are pathologically obsessed with “Beating Whitey”? And why you are obsessed with the likes of Peyton Manning?

O: Uh huh. Well, why don’t you get a website and put your trash talking to the test, Willie? See, unlike you, I’m a Doer. And I love to compete. It’s the American Way. And I say that anything I put out on the Web can and will routinely dust your pathetic narrow ass. Don’t think so? Put up a site, big mouth. Or STFU.

W: I maintain that as a black boy in America you have sublimated and projected your Oedipal issues on to the White Man/Daddy and the White Woman/Mommy. You seem to have an inordinate Oedipal need for the acceptance of the White Woman/Mommy over the White Man/Daddy.

O: And I maintain that anyone who consults you for psych counseling is in real deep trouble.

W: You have a desperate psycho-sexual need to “get Daddy’s woman”. To prove you can out compete him for her love and sexual access. This includes your vicarious sense of “getting Daddy’s woman” through real or imagined black male sexual access to White Women/Daddy’s Woman.

O: As I told PA, and I’ll repeat here: I CHOOSE to be with Black Women. But don’t get it twisted, loser; if I wanted to, I could and have, easily gotten with White, Latina, Asian or Indian Women. But then I have wide appeal. You don’t.

W: Lay off the astrology BS and get some counseling.

O: Have you ever taught Psychology at the university level, Willie? Because I’ve taught astrology there, for years. Let’s compare curriculum vitaes, shall we?

O: Even if that were true, the proble I have with you and others here, and TFH spoke to this point eloquently, is that you don’t allow for true merit-based considerations that by definition have to focus on the individual;

W: You might be confusing me with other posters.

O: I don’t think so; you tend to come crawling out from under your rock whenever its time to Hate on Darkies.

O: I’ve mentioned the example of Denzel Washington and Sidney Poitier several times, and it seems to go right over your and quite a few other people’s heads.

O: Surely you jest, liar. That’s ALL they/you talk about here, until I basically have to browbeat you over the head with the facts. At any rate, none of the White guys you mentioned were typical White guys either, right? So, let’s do it this way: if you get an exceptional White guy and put him next to an exceptional Black guy and ask ALL Women who’d they like to go out with, do not be surprised of the result. Again: the NYT clearly said that WOMEN OF BOTH RACES, Black and White, chose Denzel Washington over Tom Cruise, Gerard Butler, or Sean Connery as the kind of Male that most has all the qualities they like in a Man. The. End.

O: This is the problem I have with your position, Willard. You’re too quick to use generalities when you should be focusing on individuals. Its like trying to win a fencing match with a broadaxe.

W: This coming from somebody who is obsessed with race fantasies that black males can overwhelmingly out compete White men for White women.

O: Nope. I’m not the one who comes on here ONLY when there’s someone to put down in a racial context, Willie. I get laid more than you, w/quality Women, of all colors. I travel, get around and see things for myself. You, on the other hand, do not.

O: The point is that if a Woman, regardless of color, could choose an articulate, refined, yet socially saavy, well dressed Black Man, chances are, she will. We have too many examples, high profile cases, to prove it.

W: The reality is given the choice White women/Asian/upscale Latina and Indian women will OVERWHELMINGLY chose a White man over a black male. Not that I care about this but you do and you are pathetically wrong in your claims.

O: Prove it.

W: Not exclusively but overwhelmingly. In fact I would argue quality White women/Asian/Latino/Indian women would probably chose a White WOMAN over a black male.

O: Again: PROVE IT.

W: That is if no White man was around.

O: Again-when you’re ready to actually back up what you say, little man, holla back. Until then, don’t let the Five Fingers of Death give you too many chafe marks on your pego.

First, I don’t think it’s “harder” to Game Black Women per se; just different. My experience has been that most Black Women aren’t particularly chatty with people they don’t know; cultural differences dictate that Black folk aren’t as open to strangers as Whites are, on average, even when controlling for social class. With Black Women, it’s better if you attract them, which means you have to be a fine specimen of a Man to begin with. This includes the Art of Peacocking, which, to be flatout honest, Black Men do better than White Men. That said, there are exceptional White Men who can and do land Black Ladies. Take singer Robin Thicke, for example-he has a Black Wife. In fact he’s dedicated songs to her, used her image for his album covers and videos, etc. But Robin Thicke’s got STYLE AND FLAIR, something most White guys have. When his song was out last year I think it was, “Lost Without You”, it got mad rotation on Urban Contemporary Radio stations-Black Women loved it.

So it’s not that one can’t be successful with Black Women, they can. You just can’t go doing witty stuff like openers. You gotta display the goods, and let them approach YOU. That’s how its done. This is my experience. Just about every Woman I’ve ever had, she stepped to me, not the other way around. It was because I looked very good to them, and they wanted to know more.

Now, the second point is, that this is the first time in Western history where Women had full and complete control over their choices. Until now, they couldn’t really choose for a variety of reasons. Now that White Women don’t have to worry about social censure or rebuke or worse, don’t be surprised that quite a few will have no problem bedding down Black Men. As it already stands, Black Male/White Female marriages-keyword here-is among the highest interracial marital rates in the country according to the US Census, beaten out only by White Male/Asian Female pairings. Which, by the way, Willie and others, don’t seem to be so rattled by (recall”Game Skeptic’s” “academic” question upthread, LOL).

As for the “losers” of the sexual marketplace that Whiskey spoke to, the only real, practical options most White guys have is Game. Going out like Sodini or Cho won’t get them nothing but scorn and hatred, and then forgotten within a month.

Women are attracted to a lot of things, but wage slaving away in a “boardroom” just to get laid is something you’ll only hear from some D.C. idiot who’s trapped in a shitty job with a mountain of debt and needs to back rationalize his lifestyle. If you want the hottest women you’re better off starting a rock band.[/i]

Spot on. DC is weird like that. Personally I have no respect for biglaw partners or other corporate (or even worse government or political) drones who play the game and get a head at the cost of their dignity, physical health, and self-respect (assuming they had these things previously of course.)

As a friend’s father said after my friend brought a new Porsche and almost immediately got fired, congratulations dumbass.

But if those milquetoast DC ladder climbers really had balls and were worthy of my respect they’d either be entrepreneurs or criminals. Or both. Working a straight job for a living is for pussies and suckers IMO.

Now, the second point is, that this is the first time in Western history where Women had full and complete control over their choices.

Nonsense. Western women have had a free choice of men for centuries, within of their social class.

Now that White Women don’t have to worry about social censure or rebuke or worse,

Women don’t hatch from eggs and roam the earth alone. Women (and men) are social creatures who will always worry about social censure.

don’t be surprised that quite a few will have no problem bedding down Black Men.

Non-slutty women stick with one race, normally their own. Women will rarely “bed down black men” because of their built-in desire to not have a baby that looks like something Angelina Jolie adopted, and because black males, on average, are notoriously unreliable as mates.

You know, at some point, a lot of you guys are really afraid to complete in a true and real sexual marketplace, where Women truly do have freedom of choice and association. This is why, in a thread that is supposed t be dealing with Game, ie self-improvement, barely a handful of the guys here-the vast majority White-are talking about everything BUT self-improvement. It’s lame, it’s weak, and no wonder no Woman of any consequence would want to be bothered with so many of you.

Because they got it out of their system. When you can’t get 9s and 10s on a regular basis you idealize them. When you can, you start looking for deeper things.

It’s like highschool girls are into the hot guys and then they mature. Many men these days are stuck in the highschool phase, like me. If they always were able to bang who they want, they would have made better choices.

@PA:

You know the story of how Heidi Klum met Seal? Apparently she saw his package in a speedo in a hotel lobby. They’ve been together ever since. 🙂

PA,
My reason for citing the celeb lineup is because one of the defences many of you White guys trot out is the notion that a White Woman who has a Black lover *must* be a “slut”-NO, she just didn’t choose YOU. The. End. And a lot of this has a great deal to do with serious low self esteem on the part of a lot of White guys. Again: Game is about YOU, not about who else is screwing who. It has nothing to do with your life. Work on improving yourself, that’s what it’s all about.

Honestly, when I come here I see so many deeply unhappy people, and that’s sad. Because many of you have basically the Rosetta Stone to Women and still, you piss and moan about everything but helping yourselves.

And sure, there are Women out there who are attracted to douchebags. So? That has nothing to do with what MY choices are-nor of Searching’s either. The point of Game is to be able to determine which Women we want to be bothered with. That Women can and often will be swayed by their base animal natures doesn’t bother me in the least; I simply don’t bother with that kind of Woman, is all.

Nonsense again! you’re on a roll, dude! but seriously, I have the opposite impression of this place. The only regular commenters who strike me as bitter or unhappy are Whiskey and Lucifer.

Everyone else, when they engage in race-related discussions — they engage with you with the same competitive male gusto and frankness that you engage them. Maybe you are unhappy too? (kidding. You seem like a decently content guy, as do most others here.)

PA,
Question: is Clarence Thomas’ wife a slut? She chose to marry a Man of another race, in this case, arguably the most socially maligned in the country. So, is her choice indicative of her being a slut? Please explain?

Much obliged for the technical breakdown! I absolutely agree that Inner Game (Self-Actualization) triumphs Tactical Game. My whole focus for this upcoming year is pure self-actualization with the penultimate goal of enlisting in the military. Have to tie up and reinforce loose threads in the social, monetary/material, physical, emotional/psychological and philosophical areas of my life.

I also agree with your appraisals of the merit and melancholies of certain types of women [and the lifestyles one has to have to accommodate them]. Just from the experiences of the many military-men and veterans I know, I’ll be seeking out caring, nurturing, loyal and patient women (slightly maternal or possibly foreign) for LTRs. Unfortunately, it seems that a significant amount of the libertine women that PUAs seek-&-seduce tend to cheat on their soldier husbands and boyfriends when they are deployed.

[Note: If you ever seduce a woman and come to find out she’s in a relationship with a military-man of some type, please, please, please SHAME HER! Rates of infidelity amongst military relationships are sadly ~up~. So it comes upon you to bring that trollop DOWN!]

Anyway, as always a pleasure & I look forward to the blog.

In Response to EpicLolz:

Thank you. I thank Existentialist and Nihilist writers for my awareness of human nature and social trends.

A little Nietzsche or Schopenhauer before bed will make you a dangerously realistic individual the next day!

And sure, there are Women out there who are attracted to douchebags. So? That has nothing to do with what MY choices are-nor of Searching’s either. The point of Game is to be able to determine which Women we want to be bothered with. That Women can and often will be swayed by their base animal natures doesn’t bother me in the least; I simply don’t bother with that kind of Woman, is all.

TokyoJesusFist/YouKnowWho might have said the same thing.”

O: Really? I don’t see any similarity btw me and him at all, nor do you ever hear me complain, whine or lament the fact that some Women can and do get with douchebag type guys. For me, they simply are not a part of my world, and I move on.

I am anything but a slut. I am a good Catholic girl actually. I dated a black man for a few years and he was the most intelligent and moral man I had dated ever. He was educated (PhD), Catholic, church going and very gentlemanly. He was also big, muscular and gorgeous.

Oh, and I am white with British and Scottish decendents.

My parents loved him ( cause he was Catholic and educated). My grandparents on the other hand? Well they are intolerant racists and even to this day my nanna will keep saying to me that she is glad I didn’t marry that black man and not to ever do that again.

While there is a slut-factor in women dating low class black men I also see that with the same women dating low class anyone. In my city it tends to be Lebonese. But then I’m not from America so maybe it is just different there.

“I don’t think the PC/Multiculti rules are going to hold much longer in a sustained recession, obvious advantages for favored groups (Blacks and Hispanics) and Whites being shown (the St. Louis beating) they must get to the back of the bus (or get beaten).”

I agree.

“Now I want to get together with lots of SuperHot girls on the way to finding my long term partner. That way I get this obsession out of my system.”

Sounds like a plan, bro. Personally, I don’t get any harder from a 9.5 than an 8 given the right chemistry, plus they tend to be less high maintenance.

PA: Nonsense again! you’re on a roll, dude! but seriously, I have the opposite impression of this place. The only regular commenters who strike me as bitter or unhappy are Whiskey and Lucifer.

O: Then we truly are living in parallel universes, because w/o fail, just about every racially charged discussion seems to bring out the worst folk and the worst in them. This has been talked about before.

PA: Everyone else, when they engage in race-related discussions — they engage with you with the same competitive male gusto and frankness that you engage them. Maybe you are unhappy too? (kidding. You seem like a decently content guy, as do most others here.)

O: There is no comparison between my comments and those made by many here. Just none.

Tupac Chopra,
The difference btw me and TJF is I actually DO what I say. I’ve never been attracted to the kinds of Women who actively seekout douchebags. Nor do I knock them, because I believe in the right to freedom of association and choice. I simply move on to people I vibe with. No muss, no fuss.

Moreover, unlike TJF, when asked, I can give detailed instruction, advice and experience wrt dealing with Women. To date, TJF has refused to answer any questions on this score beyond the most superficial of statements.

So, again, while I see what you’re saying, I see no similarity btw me and him.

I’ve watched this discussion with some interest, without stepping into it so far. I do agree with some of what you are saying (people need to focus on themselves and self-improvement), but I disagree with what sounds to me like the following argument you appear, at least to me, to be making:

Working hard at your career is stupid because (1) it involves kissing ass, (2) it leads to an early death, and (3) it no longer attracts women, in itself.

The most important thing in life is getting the kinds of women you want, or closer to the kinds you want, and because the kind of self-improvement that involves education, career and so on is a waste of energy relative to learning Game. Game is the only thing that’s important, because in this environment, that’s the only way to get quality women.

White men had an advantage in the mating market when careers, stability and earning power were more important selection criteria, but now that they are not, black men have the advantage. White men can strive all they want in their careers if they want to do so, but they won’t reproduce, so they will go the way of the horse and buggy. Unless white men become more like black men by learning Game (presuming black men have a higher starting point of natural Game on average), they will go the way of the horse and buggy, and black men will be the winners. White men are bitter that they, most of them being Gameless, are becoming obsolete compared to black men, but them’s the breaks.

– – – – –

The main issues I have with this are (1) getting the most desirable women is NOT the most important thing in life, but one thing among many, and (2) one can, and should, work hard at BOTH career/education AND Game in order to become not only more capable with women socially, but also kick ass in the career arena, continuing to dominate senior management of virtually all kinds of enterprises, as well as most of the line workers in anything involving invention or technology. In addition, the idea that white guys are somehow becoming obsolete is untrue. You’re aware, I think, that white folks with grad degrees and combined incomes of 100k+ have the lowest divorce rate of any demographic, high marriage rates, and an above replacement level birth rate? Only 10% of so of the population, but they are the RULING 10%, and they seem slated to remain that way. And, it doesn’t stop there. White evangelical Christians have very high marriage rates, the same divorce rates, more or less, as anyone else, but a significantly higher birth rate. We don’t see the impact of this as much in places like DC and Philly, but go to flyover country or the Bible Belt and you’ll see scads of Christian families with a LOT of kids, and most of these are whites. So while there may be a lot of angsty single white guys in their 20s and early 30s, most of them will get married and have kids, and the likelihood that happening goes up, still, a LOT, if they are highly educated and/or “stable” (evangelicals).

To be honest, it’s very clear what white guys need to do: (1) learn Game, if even just for the confidence and understanding of women, (2) continue to kick ass in their careers, (3) work hard at education and (4) consider Christianity. White guys who manage to do all four of these things will do very well with women, have quite a few kids, and STILL maintain their leadership roles in the office, the lab, and the inventive arena. Sure, you’re right that white guys shouldn’t be worried about the odd WF/BM interracial couple here and there – it’s foolish to pay attention to that at all, because given the average incarceration rates of black men, there simply are not enough relationship-eligible black men to be any kind of a threat to quality white men, particularly if they are doing (1)-(4) above, or even 3 out of the 4.

OK, so perhaps you can explain why, in a very well known college town like mine, Philly, the White female students are just as likely to go out with White guys as Black ones?

Sometimes, yes. Do they stand out? A lot? Just as likely? Rubbish.

No even feminist lefty Bonnie didn’t back up what you said, not that what I think what she was doing was anything other than the lefty party line on encouraging black white dating.

You love to spew your one of few off annecdotes as proof of a vast expanded social trend. Has black white dating increased? Yes, slowly since 1970. it hasn’t been exploding that’s not what I see in the streets or at public places in NYC. Further usually when there are black white couples the white girl usually falls into the 5-6 range, occassionally a 7. Rarely hotter. Same goes for the college campuses here. But how about some data Obsidian, which you never supply?

As of the 2000 census, 97% of married white women were married to white men. Most of those tiny minority that weren’t weren’t were married to Hispanics. Only .5% were married to black men.

Further if we want to focus exclusively on the youngest cohorts, we can look at living together couples which are overwhelmingly young. (And also not close to one to one indicative of who ill end up marrying.) Probably is a pretty good proxy of who’s in a long term relationship though. There only 3% of white cohabiting women are doing so with black men, while again more or doing so with Hispanics – 4%.

So while there may be a lot of angsty single white guys in their 20s and early 30s, most of them will get married and have kids, and the likelihood that happening goes up, still, a LOT, if they are highly educated and/or “stable” (evangelicals).

What if they’re not the so-called “evangelical” Christian and instead a “mainline” Protestant church? (I’ve been told that the situation looks bad in the latter, but haven’t ever looked it up myself.) You can, of course, imagine why I’m interested, because apparently I am not part of the evangelical religious demographic. That fact has been useful before, though.

White guys who manage to do all four of these things will do very well with women, have quite a few kids, and STILL maintain their leadership roles in the office, the lab, and the inventive arena.

At this point, I’m utterly banking on these concepts on both an occupational and relational level. I don’t look good in Ed Hardy, and even if I did, I wouldn’t embrace flatbillerism. A man has to have some standards.

Obsidian’s truly massive efforts at propagandizing what he’s steading claiming is a now achieved black male supremacy in the mating with white girls game, waged all weekend (while I and my live together have been hosting city friends at our weekend place) calls for a bit further rejoinder.

White men had an advantage in the mating market when careers, stability and earning power were more important selection criteria, but now that they are not, black men have the advantage.

I call complete and utter bullshitte.

Man a black man’s long time fantasy, including Obsidian’s, who claims he COULD get a hot white girl just as easily as a black one. Unfortunately Obsidian has discovered that at a site like this, too many losers in love (and not blowing the roof off at work either) beta white guys, who’ve come here out of curiosity, and looking for hope and to learn game, are also morbidly afraid that’s true. Like Whiskey. And sometimes even Nova, to a lesser degree. Especially if they’re really omegas as Whiskey may be. They’re wrong too.

Produce statistical evidence for that wildly wrong statement I quoted. In context you were talking about with hot white women.

Aside from the information I cited from the latest US census, which is the most authoritative statistical source on demographic issues we have, consider the following as an indication.

It’s also complete bs that social status isn’t the single most important factor for men, unless perhaps they have absolutely zero game, but even if they do. PUA’s like to downplay the importance of mainstream status and money – as do blue collar (or criminal) black guys. They do so way too much. Money unless it’s rich money (in which case it is) is no longer the killer app in the mating market but status still is. But it still matters esp if they guy has some game.

Black and white remain mostly not very compatible in dating and relationships, where girls have lots of choices. Their friends usually are very compatible, or are their social circles. They have limitied amounts in common. Black hostility to whites remains high even if it isn’t the case for the black man in question it will be among his family and circle, generally. It’s in their culture. She will have to join it and reject hers in large part or restrict herself to only the most lean over backwards self effacing sides of hers at best. Her kids will grow up black rather than mixed. Her chances of him not cheating on her massively are very low if he’s in fact a black alpha. Her chances of him advancing far in work are low, though he may well get an ok affirmative action job. (Sure there are entertainment and sports star exceptions; everyone knows that. They usually don’t work out long term either.)

Generally that leaves for black guys, at least those who aren’t going to stick a toe in once, white girls who are: 1) ugly and downscale; 2) seriously and not just fashionably lefty, in which case it’s usually a phase; or 3) seriously slutty and driven to taboo bad behavior. Though there is a fair bit of trying it out once or twice to prove they aren’t racist, among elite college girls, under the pressures of truly massive propaganda leftist media and University pressures in favor of their doing this with black guys.

All in all, as of the most recent census, as I said of white cohabiting women, only 3% are doing so with black men. Those are overwhelmingly 20 and 30 somethings, weighted towards the former.

What if they’re not the so-called “evangelical” Christian and instead a “mainline” Protestant church? (I’ve been told that the situation looks bad in the latter, but haven’t ever looked it up myself.) You can, of course, imagine why I’m interested, because apparently I am not part of the evangelical religious demographic. That fact has been useful before, though.

@Virginia Gentleman —

I am also not evangelical, I am Eastern Orthodox. But my lady friend is a Bible Christian. I think that mainline Protestant women are often quite liberal/feminist and don’t have the same birth rates or stability rates as evangelicals/Bible-believers. But it has to be still marginally better than secular women, depending on where you live. In Northern Virginia, where I live, there isn’t much of a difference between mainlines or RCs and seculars in terms of female behaviors.

I think what’s really happening is that middle and lower betas (not to mention omegas) are now finding that the sorts of girls he knows his father’s generation could date are now hard for him to do so until she’s 30 and ready to sign up for marriage, and almost always require a ltr with him when they will do so. Meanwhile he sees that they are dating alpha guys, not all of whom are more job successful than he is, and some of whom are even black guys, whereas a generation before that was an almost absolute taboo, except among some marxists and fellow travelers.

I think the beta and omega guys who’ve dropped out the most imagine black guys doing the most well with white girls. Guys like Whiskey who imagine that the collapse of Western civilization is neigh (due to white betas not getting pussy and hence dropping out of any kind of ambitious work), see that collapse as the route for the resurgance of betas. Or anyway those types of betas, who are the brainy, inventive and hard working backbone of our technological civilization. Guys like Whiskey according wish to greatly exaggerate the degree to which betas can’t get pussy, discourage others from getting serious about learning game to reverse feminist programing and try, and as well even agree that black guys are now taking most of the hottest white girls because they have such an advantage.

Further both the media and black guys love to stoke these fears / beliefs, and undermine the confidence of all but the most elite white guys. At least that of those that can be reached in this way.

Well black men aren’t remotely getting most of the hottest white girls. They’re getting 3% of the not at all hottest gen Y ones. See above.

Overall, I would agree that mainline Protestant women are often uselessly liberal and/or feminist; the example of Bishop Katharine Schori in the ECUSA stands as a benchmark of that. It’s been suggested, usually as an insult in hostile articles, that American United Methodism may be the last “conservative” holdout among the non-Baptist churches—if that be the case, then I’m in the relatively high cotton.

When you say “secular women”, does that include any non-churchgoing woman, or is it more tightly defined than that? Additionally, I’d rather not contemplate the problems that your observations in northern Virginia suggest. It’s probably Deeds Country up there, isn’t it?

Put Michael Strahan next to Howie Long and ask the ladis which they would choose. Don’t be surprised at the result.

You’ve got to be kidding me. Hot white and Asian women would choose Howie Long to date short or long term by a country mile. By a huge majority. Many, many of them, most of them, wouldn’t date Strahan at all, never mind as a choice over Howie Long.

Strahan over Howie Long? You’re totally whacked and totally lost in your own propaganda bullshiite.

Generally that leaves for black guys, at least those who aren’t going to stick a toe in once, white girls who are: 1) ugly and downscale; 2) seriously and not just fashionably lefty, in which case it’s usually a phase; or 3) seriously slutty and driven to taboo bad behavior.

So in other words in the first case, I’m screwed with ugly kids, in the second case I’m stuck with a divorce, and in the third case I’m stuck with fucked up low IQ kids. Since I’ve taken the position of white women or no women at all, I guess I will be alone…

I would use a point system designed to identify immigrants likely to be productive citizens who will have smart children.

I’d give every candidate and IQ test. This would be the single biggest factor. Points could be added or deducted based on the average IQ of the group from which the applicant came, so as to take into account regression to the mean. A Chinese person with an IQ of 150 will probably have smarter kids than a black Kenyan with an IQ of 150, because the kids are regressing to a higher mean. That can be taken into account.

IQ correlates with skills/education, but isn’t identical with it. I’d probably give a few extra points for specific technical training particularly in fields like physics and materials engineering, and I’d certainly give some for fluency in English.

As for the amount of immigration, current levels are probably too high, so I’d be fine with a fairly decent reduction. I’d also do away with the whole H1B thing — immigrants should participate in the free market, just like everybody else. Needless to say I’d get rid of the silly rules that prevent high IQ students from coming here.

So I’d say I am “IQ, skills, medium levels.”

I’d clamp down, hard, on illegal immigrants. The most obvious policy would be to speed up the process of deporting them. In addition to that, I’d add some punishment — probably corporal punishment like flogging. I would also repeal any laws or programs giving illegal aliens the right to any sort of free medical care, even in emergencies. If some illegal has a heart attack, he can go back to Mexico for treatment. If he dies in the meantime, who cares? I would also make it clear that illegals could not use the US court system to recover any sort of back wages, or to make any sort of civil claim at all.

I’d try that for a year, and if that didn’t work, I’d simply make it legal to physically assault or even murder illegal aliens. This would certainly have a deterrent effect.

So many HBD types always say that black men are the prime sexual object for white women due to higher testosterone etc. But BM/WF couples, you only see them occasionally. This massive fetish for black men among white women, in my casual observation , just doesn’t seem to be happening.

It is common among obese white women. Black men give obese white women an excuse to stay fat. This shrinks the percentage of white women who are thin, which is how black men undertake vengeance onto white men.

You are thrust into an alternate universe where you are faced with a stark choice:

You can either relax into your given environment where you have the opportunity to fuck slightly younger type chicks in the sordid and seedy manner in which such women need to be gamed, while still retaining your freedom and ability to jump from chick to chick…

or

You bite the bullet and decide to “go SWPL” in your lifestyle and endear yourself to a higher class of women — whom are generally more attractive, or at least more refined and gracile, but who insist on SWPL triflings in matters cultural. Apart from their college humanties femi-multi-cult indoctrination, they do engage you on a more sophisticated intellectual level. They may or may not be as uninhibited and nasty in the sack as the slut types, and in addition, they tend to be sticklers for some semblance of commitment.

But if those milquetoast DC ladder climbers really had balls and were worthy of my respect they’d either be entrepreneurs or criminals. Or both. Working a straight job for a living is for pussies and suckers IMO.

You said a mouthfull.

Even the bohemian lifestyle beats the wage slave lifestyle – be it blue collar or corporate.

The entrepreneurial lifestyle, when it’s got it’s mojo on, beats all.

Secret to happiness? Be a high libido male, live in SE Asia, and be a successful entrepreneur.

Because they got it out of their system. When you can’t get 9s and 10s on a regular basis you idealize them. When you can, you start looking for deeper things.

I’m not buying what you’re selling. I’ve bitten the bait, but am not hooked. I see your point, but disagree with your premise.

I used to be satisfied with moderately attractive women. Even much older women. I focused on verbal interaction and mental chemistry, as much as physical chemistry.

But as soon as I started to pull younger hotties, my preferences changed. As soon as I realized that they were in my league, they became more attractive.

Having had several long term love relationships with highly attractive and sexual women in their young twenties, I’m spoiled. It is not out of my system, any more than lust is out of my system.

Lust never gets out of your system. You satisfy yourself to the best of your satisfaction. For sex, that means physical chemistry.

You can’t get off on LTR compatibility. You can get off on wild sex with a hottie.

LTR compatibility sometimes coincides with sexual chemistry. It is entirely unrelated, however. Sexual chemistry is something you never grow out of, unless you allow your testosterone levels to drop, or unless you have a low libido.

Just to add to what O said about black women, BW will approach and open a man they find attractive. They are more aggressive than WW. They don’t expect the man to do all the work to keep the interaction going. I would co-sign the idea that black women care more about looks too.

…more like a sturdy framed, curvy but muscular, fearsome to nancyboys, product of strong Africans and Catawba who was very happy with what nature blessed her with long before she ever read Nietzsche.

Just because someone isn’t suitable for you or most below average men of your race doesn’t make them wrong or bad…just not suited for you.

It’s kinda silly to try to say that someone who could break you in half, is smarter than you, and creates more in a day than you will in a lifetime, is somehow inferior. Sounds like the wailing and lamentation of the vanquished to me.

Put Michael Strahan next to Howie Long and ask the ladis which they would choose. Don’t be surprised at the result.

You’ve got to be kidding me. Hot white and Asian women would choose Howie Long to date short or long term by a country mile. By a huge majority. Many, many of them, most of them, wouldn’t date Strahan at all, never mind as a choice over Howie Long.

Strahan over Howie Long? You’re totally whacked and totally lost in your own propaganda bullshiite.”

O: Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Strahan have a WHITE wife, Doug? And, didn’t he, after a very public and nasty divorce, pickup w/o skipping a beat, w/another hot lady? And again, you’re doing what Willie tried to do, by shifting the goalposts: you have to ask ALL WOMEN, Black and White, and Hispanic, etc. Y’all keep excluding Black Women, uh uh, we gonna include em too. It’s about which Male has the most appeal accross the racial groups. No cherrypicking.

Well, at any rate, I intend to put a lot of this to the test. We’ll soon see, because I don’t like the way polls are conducted here; we need to be asking EVERYONE, from ALL the major racial groups.

As a ‘recovering provider beta’ who raised 4 kids and was with one woman for 23 years I can put my 2 cents in and say he is bang on the mark….I used to be proud of being a ‘Family Man’ and, of course, kept it to myself that my wife was very emotionally abusive of me.

When I started ‘dating’ again I dated some western women….they were terrible 0 for 3….they wanted a slave, another ‘beta provider’….and I wasn’t interested in doing that all again…

A buddy gave me some ‘dating advice’…I knew how to be an alpha but in my experience alphas attract sluts mostly….and I was after a ‘nice woman’ about my age….45….What a jerk!!

My buddy encouraged me to ‘act like an alpha’ and see how it goes….in 18 months I’ve dated 12 very hot women, usually 2-4 at a time and establish 3 ‘favs’. Now, I know that’s not much to the higher up alphas but it’s a hell of a lot better than being married to a fat woman who won’t put out!! LOL!!

The women I date are 30-35, grew up behind the iron curtain, and still treat a man like a man…..just wonderful…..I never talk to any woman born in the west or raised most of her life in the west…..no point…they are all horrible feminists and they suck at sex anyway….

I don’t really have the desire to try and get laid more often than I am now….must be my age and work patterns….but I can say in all certainty…..in Germany at least…..stepping up a bit, acting or being alpha, having some money as well….it all works very much in the mans favour…..

I could not have imagined my life now 2 years ago…the predominant thought was ‘what was I thinking’.

Well black men aren’t remotely getting most of the hottest white girls. They’re getting 3% of the not at all hottest gen Y ones. See above.

Blacks are impregnating 3% of white women who give birth in a given year for when the father’s race is known. However, there is apparently another 10% of white mothers who apparently live in absolute destitute as to be completely unaware of who their child’s father is. I hope I don’t need to connect the dots for who would disproportionately be the father in these pairings 🙂

And of course, “gettin wit” someone of the other sex doesn’t necessary have to result in pregnancy. What do you think happens at the end of the night between that black guy dancing closely with that random white girl at club xyz – anytown, usa? Do they go home and hold hands and watch Love Actually?

Doug1,
OK, just read your rant above, and its so silly its not even funny. Let’s do this by the numbers:

1. All weekend, I have offered examples of Black Men who have either dated and/or married and had kids with, White Women: Sidney Poitier, Harry Belafonte, Clarence Thomas, Quincy Jones, Richard Pryor, Seal, Taye Diggs, Cuba Gooding Jr., etc, et al. And that doesn’t even include pro atheletes, like Dennis Rodman (talk about Peacocking!) or Sir Charles Barkley.

Now, since PA welched out on the question, I’ll ask you: were any of the Women these Men dated and/or married, sluts, Doug? And if so, what, exactly, makes them a slut-other than the fact that they chose a Black over a White guy?

2. I happen to know, personally, quite a few Black Male/White Female marriages. Incidentally enough, they’re more stable and productive, than the vast majority of All Black or All White marriages I know, most of whom have dissolved. Again: I’m not advocating on way or another here, just reporting to you what I’ve personally seen.

So, I know just a weebit of what I speak. And, it comports with the US Census figures, that clearly indicates that Black Male/White Female MARRIAGES are among the highest interracial marital rates in the country, and has been for three decades running. Recent polling done indicates that some 85% of the American public supports IR dating/marriage.

I’ve mentioned a Black Man/White Woman couple before, but it beaers repeating: the wife is very Blonde and Blue-eyed, from Poznan, Poland. Catholic. The hubbie is Black as the Ace of Spades and hails from Kingston, Jamaica. They’ve been married FIFTY YEARS, and at the time they got married, all of the wife’s girlfriends predicted they get divorced within five years. As it turns out though, all of her girlfriends ended up getting divorced. One of her girlfriends got married and divorced like three times.

They have several kids, all of whom are honors grads from college and doing very well in their lives. They’ve lived in the suburbs of one of the richest states in the union since the early 70s. The hubbie was the only Black Man at his position in a major Big Pharm company, he was one of the lead chemists.

And, I know quite a few other couples like this.

3. Your charges of my supposedly taking the wind out of the sails of lowly White Betas is ludicrous, but let’s say for the sake of argument that it’s right. Then my reply to that would be, if a Man is so weak willed that he can be spooked out of getting information that can only be of benefit to him in his personal life, THEN HE DESERVES TO FAIL. As you point out above, today’s White Beta has to be MORE than what his dad was; it’s NOT ENOUGH to simply be a nice guy with a good job. How many times do I need to say that? Women don’t care about that today, because they’re surrounded by such putatively nice guys, one, and they can and do earn their own money, two. So, today’s Man has to offer something a Woman can’t buy-like real companionship, real leadership, and Real Wood.

That’s where Game comes in, because it offers guys the tools they need to be true mates to Women if they want it. For all the talk about things back in the day, the dirty little secret was that a lot of our dads were jerks who couldn’t even relate to their own kids, let alone the wife, and more often than not she had to take it because he had good money. Well, that’s not true anymore, and no amount of handwringing, whining, pissing and moaning, hatin on Darkies and breaking on fat girls is gonna change that. ADAPT OR DIE, those are the choices, and I’m always amused, fascinated even, by how the guy who supposedly represents all that’s wrong with society gets the point, and the guys who supposedly heirs to the throne, don’t.

Finally, nowadays, Women have more freedom than ever before in human history, to choose what they really want. It’s a true free market in dating terms now. White Women from the tony suburbs don’t have to worry about being chastised or worse, beaten to within an inch of her life by her own family (which comes dangerously close to the “honor killings” in the Islamic world), for choosing to date a Black Man, for example. In this area I am for complete, and total, freedom of choice and association-its the Lady’s Choice.

And let the Best Man, win.

There are no longer any excuses, Doug. Lowly White Betas now have all the information, technology, even mentoring, they need, often for pennies on the dollar, if not FREE. No one’s trying to hear it anymore-as I said at the outset of this thread, it’s all about YOU. Man Up, get Game, and Get A Life.

Globalman, in my opinion, you did the right thing. Can you please stay around and give guys here some advice on making that move?

For a few of them, I think it is a good solution, maybe for life, but for at least some years. Some years of being around women who are really women and have cultural backup for that, can at least reset a man’s natural selection eye.

I just read Obsidian´s reply to you. don´t do that. You should only go out alone to places where you have been many times before with friends. Lone wolf game is advanced game

first step is eye contact game. if a girl looks at you, hold eye contact until she breaks it. avoid the teen mistake of lowering your sight towards her breasts at all costs. do not smile at all. if she doesn´t look at you first, look at her and wait to see if she looks back or not. if she does, the same dynamic above applies.

While black males might be naturally inclined to be more “alpha”, I think the differences might be exaggerated by the fact that black alphas tend to stay on the dating market longer. Many black women are undesirable, many white women who date interracially are undesirable, and attractive white women generally don’t not like to settle into interracial relationships.

On the other hand, a white alpha screws a dozen or so chicks before finding a nice homely girl of his own race to shack up with and calls it a day. I also notice this trend amongst hispanic alphas, and I imagine this probably true for the few asian male alphas that exist as well.

Tarl,
You said:
“That some extremely rich and famous black dudes did not marry white sluts hardly disproves the point that in general, white chicks with black guys have very low SMV or are skanks.”

O: Yea, but here’s the thing-whenni’m badgered for “data” and I offer it, you and others are quick to poo poo it, on the grounds that the data features “exceptional” examples, yet, on the other hand, you and others cling to this “skank/slut” stuf without offering any data of your own to back it up.

Plus, I just talked about a few couples, not famous, who are doing very as Black Male/White Female couples. Then we had another female commenter upthread who basically agreed with me, and she dated a Black Man.

I just read Obsidian´s reply to you. don´t do that. You should only go out alone to places where you have been many times before with friends. Lone wolf game is advanced game”

O: You misunderstood what I said to Searching. My assignment for him was NOT to pickup chicks, but to merely observe. I’ve found this to be very important, because very often, guys just jump into the scene without knowing the lay of the land. In order to win the Game, you have to first know the rules.

Go back and review what I said to Searching. It’ll make a lot more sense when yo do.

obsidian, i was shocked and appalled to see you display some small sense of humor about yourself after my “grateful” comment–i was going to do a whole kanye west/fishsticks thing at you and its all ruined now.

Obsidian, to add to your list of black males marrying/mating exogamously, a good example would be the SF District Attorney Kamala Harris. Harris moderately good-looking and is running for AG of California next year:

Obsidian — It is highly likely that given human nature, downsized beta guys working as say, janitors (the WSJ had an article on a few former Detroit execs doing just that) will not have much to lose. And game the system their own way.

You know that Game can always be beaten … by other means. Basically anonymous violence. Losers in the sexual marketplace generally enact their revenge on someone. As the relatives of the victims of Cho, Atta, and Sodini.

Gig,
If you will kindly refer to my remarks to Searching, I spoke at some length about the importance of having at least *one* good buddy who can act as a Wingman when you go out. Actually, my personal philosophy is that a Man should cultivate good friends for its own sake, and then go out as a group for its own sake. This takes away neediness, and everyone is attracted to good energy and vibes. This is what I do-when I’m out with my buds I’m not even thinking about Womn quite frankly. I’m just out to have a good time with my friends and enjoy life, and if a Woman finds me or one of my compadres attractive, all the better. I think one of the big problems here is that guys don’t have anything going on in their life to begin with. They should, literally, “get a life”, before they start thinking about trying to attract gals.

At any rate, merely observing people can be very helpful, I’ve found. You learn in real time with real people what works and doesn’t work, how clubs look and feel like, etc. It’s a very good exercise to do, one that is very underrated in my view.

Whiskey,
Yes, sure, there are and will be losers in the SMV game. Nothing new there, but s you rightly point out, what IS new, at least as for as America goes, is th “rage killings” DIRECTED AT RANDOM WOMEN. And I agree with you and others, we’ll definitely see more of this.

None of this will make too much impact on the guys with Game, though. I don’t see a big uptick in “rage killings” involving such Men. The targets will continue to be Women. Sad to say.

You probably have not dated hot women until a certain point. It’s like the guy who gets a taste of something he’s never had. He wants more and more. See what you think in say 10 years.

I am like that too. When I went to college, I was 14. I skipped out on both High School dating and College dating. That is why I am much more shallow than my peers when it comes to what kind of woman I want.

If you had grown up knowing that women of all types (including hot) want you, you would be much more balanced in what you want. I feel like women are in this advantageous position. Consider fat chicks, etc. They are much more like guys, in that they are sexually ravenous etc. because they don’t get as much choice.

Since you only recently learned you can “get” hot chicks, you have an insatiable desire for it. Don’t get me wrong. It’s biological. But I am talking about the desire to get hotter and hotter chicks (breaking your current relationship) versus the desire to build something with someone you are ENOUGH attracted to and the sex is good.

The way you White fellas cling to this notion of “low” White Women only going out with Black guys is funny to watch.

Just telling you what I see.

Your use of black sports stars and Hollywood celebs is pretty funny to watch. It would be hard to find a better example of something less like “ordinary America” than what happens in pro sports and Hollywood.

After a great deal of investigation, analysis, and reflection, I have concluded Game is incompatible with Aryan DNA and traditions, and its practitioners are enemies of western civilization. Additionally, the whole thing is straight sociopathy. I’ll elaborate in future comments, but it was the praising of that stupid fucking bug eyed Australian teenager as the ultimate alpha which sealed the deal; you guys are fucking nuts.

That some extremely rich and famous black dudes did not marry white sluts hardly disproves the point that in general, white chicks with black guys have very low SMV or are skanks.

And your proof by hearsay and assertion doesn’t prove the opposite. However the stars and athletes and politicians are at least a tangible example we can all verify so weak as it may be for an example of typical person, it’s still superior to your proof.

Greg, I’m not sure I’m following you, regarding the desire for hot chicks.

I’m 43 and have been in SE Asia for the last 7 years. I get plenty enough here. Before that I had some modest success in the US and Canada, but with a few very long dry spells. I had my first girlfriend at age 3 and since then usually had something going on.

My contention is that the desire for sexual chemistry is physical and has nothing to do with any “been there done that” attitude. It’s a base physical thrill, that nothing alters.

It would be hard to find a better example of something less like “ordinary America” than what happens in pro sports and Hollywood.

Yes; it’s not a very good place to be arguing from. I don’t think most rational people will deny the ability of Sanders, Washington et al to get quality white women, or for that matter Obsidian’s ability to get quality white women. None of these men being considered is representative of their ethnic group though. Can black men get quality white women? I have no doubt, and like Obsidian I’ve seen it first hand. Can most black men compete against most white men (substitute any race here really) for white women? I’ve got to say no to that. Not only from the obvious statistical predominance of WM/WF relationships, but from personal experience. I’ve got a natural advantage in attracting and building comfort with white women. White women are generally more credulous of me by virtue of being white myself.

I’m from the Baltimore side of the B/W Corridor, and BM/WF relationships are fairly common here (and BW/WM relationships are becoming more noticeable as well). They just happen to be no where near as common as people that are racially exclusive, in terms of either dating or sex. If a white girl tells me she has a boyfriend, I’m going to assume he is white. If a black girl tells me she has a boyfriend, I’m going to assume he’s black. I won’t be surprised to find out otherwise, but if I’m playing the odds, it’s just more likely that any given women is going to be racially exclusive or greatly racially preferential in selecting mates. This discussion is, or should be all about the odds; statistics; not outliers. Most men, while less discriminating than women, are still primarily into their own race; the abundance of yellow fever among white Herbs not withstanding.

Obsidian himself admits a preference for black women if I’m not mistaken, which is normal for most black men. Most black women likewise prefer black men. The same scenario exists for other racial/ethnic groups (although white and Asian women seem to be less discriminating than women of most other ethnic groups admittedly). Obsidian’s theory is that racial exclusivity is mostly a social construct; whereas personally I believe it is mostly psychological or maybe even a physiological one (not to discount social considerations entirely, but I don’t see them as the driving factor here). I think most of the other posters rebutting Obsidian are more in line with the psychological/physiological theory.

The phenomena of people being more credulous of others that look like them (from a psychological viewpoint, possibly they are simply more credulous of people that look like their ‘role models’ during crucial points of their development) is well documented. Either way, this behavior is ingrained, and this being a purely culturally received phenomena doesn’t seem credible, considering how widespread it is. Prejudice is a fact of human existence, and that inherent prejudice factors into sexual selection.

Hello Xsplat,
Very interesting leadoff remark coming from you, since I cannt recall you ever saying the same thing to those who repeat, ad nasueum, bad things about Black folks. Perhaps this is because you agree with them. Or perhaps you’re simply blind to it.

In any event, the reason why I speak up about these things early and often is because…wait for it…I CAN. It’s important to me to represent. It may not be important to you, or anyone else here, and that’s OK. DON’T READ IT. Personally, I think some of the things you say sounds like stuff I got over back in highschool, but to each his own, and so long as you’re not hurting anyone, what the heck. I’m just sayin.

So, here’s how it’s going to go down, X: as long as they’re highly educated White people here in this forum saying absolutely ridiculous stuff about Black folk, I can and will counteract it with every fiber of my being. Whatever it takes. By any means necessary. And I’ve got all day long because I’m quite finanically comfortable to be able to do that.

How about this bright idea: why don’t you go to those folks and tell THEM to put a sock in it-especially since it don’t got a darned thing to do with Game? How about that?

Do parents, particularly fathers, of young East Asian women typically have race-based objections to their daughters dating or marrying white men, provided the white guy is at least on the girl’s family’s socioeconomic level?

Let’s assume all parties are US citizens, to avoid the “ticket to America” factor.

When you say “secular women”, does that include any non-churchgoing woman, or is it more tightly defined than that? Additionally, I’d rather not contemplate the problems that your observations in northern Virginia suggest. It’s probably Deeds Country up there, isn’t it?

@Virginia Gentleman –

I guess I would define secular, for purposes of LTR stability likelihood, as meaning not just the rabidly secular (i.e., convinced, dogmatic atheists or agnostics), but also the lazily secular (i.e., riding along wherever the culture takes them types) — I think women of both sorts are worse risks, relatively speaking.

NoVa is split politically. Deeds will do well in traditional democratic strongholds like Arlington, Alexandria, Reston, etc. Outside of that, he’s kind of (1) not well known and (2) considered a bit suspect due to his long associations with downstate. I know a lot of people who have openly voiced serious reservations about Deeds — people who voted for Obama.

The big problem I have here, is that when I give examples of BM/WF pairings and am shot down because they’re “outliers”, no one seems to have a problem with using completely anecdotal, and more to the point, often stereotypical “evidence” to buttress their positions. Ie, “only low class” White Women getting with Black Men. You’re right there is a psychological angle going on here, and I argue its the psychological salve a lot of White guys here use to assuage their hurt egos in this regard-that the idea of a cultured, refined, educated, handsome and successful Black Men, could and often does gain access to upwardly mobile White Women, is quite a bit for some of these guys to take. Too bad. We are now in a time where Women can and will choose. And if they don’t choose you, the thing that needs examination there, is YOU.

The assumptions that go on here is rife-why is it that poor rural White guys are never discussed? But ALL we talk about when it comes to Black folks is the hood? Why is that? Because most of the guys here truly live in a bubble, where only other people like them, obstensibly exist, White or Black. This is why we never, ever, hear about say, Blue Collar White folk.

So, again: yes, there is such a thing as a refined Black Man, and yes, White Women tend to find such Men quite attractive, because on the scale of Alpha traits, such guys tend to have it all-again, I give you Denzel Washington being viewed by both Black and White Women to have said traits per the NYT Female Sexuality study published earlier this year.

And again-all this is beside the point. It has nothing to do with Game, but it does act as a smokescreen to keep from guys addressing why they aren’t getting laid. When I read The Game, not once does Style sound bitter like so many guys here, and by his own words, he says that everytime he struckout with a female, the first thing he looked to was HIMSELF.

Maybe that’s why he’s where he is, and so many guys here are where they are, bitching and moaning about why the world is so unfair. Yea, that’ll really pack em in, right?

1. When have I *ever*, disagreed with the fact that Black Males do in fact commit violent crime?

2. When have I *ever* disagreed with the fact that low class Black Men do indeed get with low class White Women?

3. When have I *ever* disagreed with the HBD-inspired notion that not all Black folk are as smart as Whites?

I mean, what are you talking about, PA? And, why shouldn’t I be obsessed when it comes to seeing my people being trashed in the most unfair, banal and ridiculous of ways? Get this straight: I AM NOT DAVE ALEX. I will not sit idly by, or worse in his case, give gunpowder to those who wish to drag my peeps through the mud.

I’ve told Doug and I’ll tell you, there have been reams of stuff said about Black folk long before I came along. What’s different now is that you and others will actually have to be held accountable for what you say, by actually having to debate me. And, as OneSTDV recently found out, I got lots of stamina to do the job.

Obsidian, I was talking specifically about the I.R. thing, not crime or IQ or HBD.

Your point is that smooth black dudes like Denz.W or DeionS. will have a major edge over smooth white dudes with regards to WF’s. My (and others’) contention is that you are wrong on this point, for reasons I and others provided.

It’s women. According to study after study, women are becoming more and more unhappy. This drop in happiness is found in women across the social and economic landscape. It doesn’t matter what their marital status is, how much money they make, whether or not they have children, their ethnic background, or the country they live in. Women around the world are in a funk.

And it’s not because of the multitude of crises we are facing. Women’s happiness has been on a downward trend since the early 1970s, when the General Social Survey, a landmark study, began examining the social attitudes of women and men — who, by the way, have gotten progressively happier over the years.

She goes on to say that “it’s a question we’ll be exploring in depth on HuffPost in the coming weeks.”

Doesn’t sound like it needs too much exploring to me. The destruction of traditional gender roles has made women less happy. BOOM! Where’s my Pulitzer?

==============

Incidentally this jives with my theory on happiness and setting reasonable goals that PA mentioned a couple days ago.

When women just had to be loving and caring, a good wife and mother, any woman could successfully accomplish these goals with just a bit of effort, thus guaranteeing easy happiness.

Now that they’re told to go be strong woman with careers and families, not only is it very difficult to have a successful career, but it is almost impossible to be successful at both career and family.

your proof by hearsay and assertion doesn’t prove the opposite. However the stars and athletes and politicians are at least a tangible example we can all verify so weak as it may be for an example of typical person, it’s still superior to your proof.

What I see around me every day is proof enough for me. If you are incapable of seeing what’s around you, that’s not my problem.

I live in an area with an above-average number of middle class, respectable-looking black dudes. If anyone should be able to get decent white girls, it’s them. I’m not seeing it.

I don’t think most rational people will deny the ability of Sanders, Washington et al to get quality white women

meh, those guys? Losers. The best white woman is the trophy blond you can take to Hollywood parties, show off to da bruthas – and whitey – then take home and get jungle on her ass. When she gets to be a bitch, just off her. OJ had the best one.

Firepower,
OK, so what exactly is your idea of a high quality White Woman, please? And, would Clarence Thomas’ wife, for example, or Shelby Steele’s wife, for another one, comport w/said ideal, or not, and why? Please explain?

PA,
Yes, I read what you and others have had to say, and I disagreed and then provided examples. To date, no one else, has not, only loose anecdotes. Which brings me to…

Tarl,
OK, so what you see around you is fine and dandy, but not for me, right? Is that what you’re saying? As you know, I’m in Philly, but I travel around a bit, too, and I’m telling you that I see something different. So, until you can give examples that fit with what you’re saying, like I’ve done, your words are as good as mine on the matter.

Finally…

Greg,
I’m sorry-exactly what did you want me to respond to, please? I’ll get right on it.

Lastly, I note with particular interest the relatively miniscule comments actually taking up the topic of the thread, and this is something that has been noted by other commenters before. Say what you will about me, but the fact is, that I can and often do actually post about various aspects of Game, especially as to how it relates to African Americans. I’m not seeing much posting on Game from many others here. Funny that.

So, here’s how it’s going to go down, X: as long as they’re highly educated White people here in this forum saying absolutely ridiculous stuff about Black folk, I can and will counteract it with every fiber of my being. Whatever it takes.

The “I know you are but what am I” defense is inapplicable here.

You and only you posit that black folks are sexually superior. Over, and over, and over. And over. And over.

That has nothing to do with whatever negative shit is dished onto blacks. Nothing.

Jeesus, dude. I think you are clueless as to how monotonous your monotone is. And how it’s starting to appear as an unhealthy fixation to those familiar with it.

Yes, I do skip past your posts. And it’s a shame. Most of them are repetitive boring crap, and most of the rest are responses to DA. It’s a shame because the few that aren’t race related or in response to DA can be worthwhile. The very very few.

Firepower,
OK, so what exactly is your idea of a high quality White Woman, please?

Nicole Brown Simpson. She was down for The Black Fuck Experience as long as the cash was kept current and paid. A real downgirl conducting a business deal. Nice tits.

And, would Clarence Thomas’ wife, for example, or Shelby Steele’s wife, for another one, comport w/said ideal, or not, and why? Please explain?

Academics with political aspirations (and long-winded authors cleverly espousing Ideals For Cash) usually end up sentenced to a lifetime married to Sylvia Plath, Ayn Rand-like pussy. Who wants to fuck the mirror image of their dowdy University English Proffessorette.

Ice T. Now his is a fine wife. Blond. Big teats – probably down to pass around to Dr. Dre when visiting, recumbent at Chez Ice. Ice writes “Cop Killa” and then, stars in a Cop Show.

Blonds with big tits cannot see hypocrisy. So long as money and fame are the filtering lens. Just keep them in cash and all is well.

X: You and only you posit that black folks are sexually superior. Over, and over, and over. And over. And over.

O: No. I’ve NEVER said such a thing, nor do I believe in it. What I’ve said, which, since you pay such close attention X, is that, on average, Black Men have more Natural Game than do White Men. It was a response to the HBD argument, which usually is fixated on IQ and ONLY IQ. So, my stating this-which…wait for it…comes from none other than PA himself-is a test to see if the HBDers are truly interested in their professed subject, or, are they only using it to push their own agenda, in this case, to root for White high IQ geeky guys. The fact that they will not take this topic up without first being prompted, and/or taking a dig at Black Men in so doing, says it all.

X: That has nothing to do with whatever negative shit is dished onto blacks. Nothing.

O: Au contraire, “dude”, it does. I want to present another picture of Black America, one, because I can, and two, because its needed here. Now, at any time I can deal with other topics. All that needs to happen is the ridiculous comments about Black people stop. Otherwise, I’ll continue on my end, unabated. Really as simple as that, X. Like I said, go run tell THEM to stop, and I’ll stop. See how easy that is? 😉

X: Jeesus, dude. I think you are clueless as to how monotonous your monotone is. And how it’s starting to appear as an unhealthy fixation to those familiar with it.

O: “Dude”? You really are telling on your age, aren’t ya?

Oh, I’m a bit more self-aware than the average bear. And thanks for the sage advice, but you’ll kindly understand if I decline. My goal is to be consistent. As much as it takes to tamp down the ridiculous remarks and statements that have been allowed to run rampant here for MONTH before I even knew his forum existed. It. Is. Enough. Now, civilized people can cease and desist and we can have a much more enlightened discourse…or…we can do it the hard way. Their choice. But what they will not be allowed to do, is say stuff out the side of their neck with impunity. They will be challenged. And I won’t be alone in the effort.

X: Yes, I do skip past your posts. And it’s a shame. Most of them are repetitive boring crap, and most of the rest are responses to DA. It’s a shame because the few that aren’t race related or in response to DA can be worthwhile. The very very few.

O: Good! Then we have nothing more to discuss. I don’t lose any sleep at nigh basically skipping over your posts either. Like I said, I got over that stuff in the 11th grade.

Despite all you useless, utterly useless (and obsessive annecdotal blovating), you STILL have failed to produce any evidence that black male white female coupling is anything but a small percentage thing.

Whereas I have show you that as per the authoritative latest US census, only 0.5% of married white women are married to black men, 1/3 as many who are married to Hispanics. 97% are married to whites.

Similarly of white women cohabiting, only 3% were doing so with blacks whereas her to more were doing so with Hispanics (4%).

These are facts. Not your reciting of some relatively few black sports star examples. Sure they exist. They are part of that 0.5%. Or your endless black male supremacy shiite about “what you see”.

Further I gave above all those examples and the easy route to self exploration at whodatedwho of whom the hottest and most famous, or just starlets or whomever are in fact dating according to the gossip and scandal mills.

Anyone who’s read through this thread (to to mention a whole lot of your stuff previously as I’ve said previously going back months now) and doesn’t realize you’re 1) obsessed with proving that black men are now pushing white men aside most of the time for white women even though the real evidence doesn’t mostly support that and 2) undermining the confidence of white men in competing against black men as much as possible, under the guise of trying to help, is a fool.

You spent the whole weekend doing that obssessively on this thread. Some social life Obsidian. I was out at our weekend place with my live together and with a couple of house guests from the city.

Now you spend all today writing LONG post after post all of the devoid of anything but anecdotal blovating. Not that’s new. Are you out of work? Actually in a low security prison with a lot of computer time privileges and making stuff up? Or what?

o:
“Yes, I read what you and others have had to say, and I disagreed and then provided examples. To date, no one else, has not, only loose anecdotes. Which brings me to…”

celebrity examples are anecdotes as well.

but that aside, doug1 (on his 09/20/09 comments above) responded pretty well to you with broad statistical data. the only response you’ve given to his particular comments was on the individual comparison of strahan and long.

Yuri,
OK, so let me get this straight: have you read The Game, or not? I don’t want to make any assumptions. Also, is attacking Style’s motivations, the best way to critique his work? What about the substance of it-does it work, or not? Comments?

if the black male is now more desireable to hot white women today than white men, how come as of the most recent census only 0.5% of all white married women (never mind the hotest) chose black and only 3% of all white cohabiting women did so?

How come the celebrity gossip / scandal site whodatedwho shows virtually all hot young white stars and starlets overwhemingly dating white men with some Hispanics and only of a smattering of blacks thrown in some cases. And in most no blacks?

With The Game he was serving two masters, one of them was pleasing the feminazi-dominated publishing industry, the second his PU fanbase. Hence the sprinkles of feminazi propaganda in the book.

He was really only serving one master; his wallet. The Game has all the elements of being a self-help book, being a short read, and having a narrative rooted in a contemporary true story. Those are big selling categories and the book was obviously written with sales in mind and that is what those ‘feminazi’ elements were about. Mass appeal, not a niche market.

He wasn’t writing the Great American Novel, or attempting to propound on a new philosophy or critique our existing social system in any way. The book is quite good for what it is; an overly long, feel-good magazine column.

A genuine celeb PUA or ghostwriter that is steeped in social sciences and philosophy willing to sit down with a PUA should write a book that does go where Style didn’t. He, and Mystery, give off-handed disclaimers about being genuine and how ‘seduction’ doesn’t really mean ‘seduction’ or it’s really attraction, et cetera. At no point do they really challenge the prevailing social winds, and posit that it’s actually a good thing for society to be able to produce heterosexual men that heterosexual women are actually attracted to.

Mystery and Style could make a much better case for what they do; even if it was just to sell books or for the purposes of justification.

One of the things I have a great deal of trouble with is the idea that non game-related elements make the difference between “lesser beta” and “standard provider beta”, and I have questions regarding the lower end of the scale, since I am mainly in the position of the 60 yr-old factory worker in the basement apartment, and I feel that the hidden “critical mass” needed for 7s and up consists mainly of unchangeable, non-game elements. In short, I don’t think game and extroversion alone can bring me up into the realm of easy scores w/ 7s, although I am trying to prove that proposition wrong. As someone who has been slumming at the lower end of the scale, just above Cigstache, with an occasional 7 thrown into the mix, I am amazed at how simple and linear game is and how that simplicity and linearity go to hell as soon as you are dealing with the cute, girl-next-door types. Perhaps the fact that my 7s are nerdy cultural outliers has something to do with it, but I am finding either total failure or great success, with nothing in between.

K,
Oh come on, don’t tell me you’re gonna get into the act too. Style’s book definitely went against the prevailing social winds-read it. On just about every public media appearance, he’s asked about the neg, etc. His is hardly the stuff of Dear Abby.

I’m sorry fellas, but it really sounds like you guys are pounding the table here. In my reply to Searching, I directed him to the beginning of The Game, where Mystery gives the six traits of the Alpha Male-question: is that list, legit, or not?

I mean, I just don’t get it. We go from whipping up on Black and fat folk, to now whipping up on Style himself, all the while, avoiding the inner work, that makes Game, work. Nice smoke and mirrors job, fellas.

Doug, if I’m reading this debate correctly, it wasn’t quantity Obsidian was disputing. It was quality.

Since you’ve pointed out that interethnic couples of any sort are the exception, how do you intend to prove that the White women among these exceptional people are somehow of low quality?

I would argue the opposite. Someone willing to go against the grain in their mating choices is likely to have a stronger will and resistance to social pressure than someone who follows the crowd. I’d say these were more likely to be the higher women in actual nature based quality, though perhaps not in media beauty based quality.

In some places, this would have to be a woman without fear.

I’d go even farther to say that an exceptional Black man whose ancestry is likely full of exceptional people, may be attracted to such a woman because of independence markers. Again, this is just another theory between myself and some other weird friends who occasionally get drunk and consider how we found each other.

We think maybe independent thinkers have a kind of Greek triad of traits like being physically sturdy, having beautiful eyes, and dressing strange…something.

Maybe people who are great in some way, or destined for greatness can detect each other on sight, even if it’s just a kind of minor greatness like social resistance.

Why do you keep asking if I’ve read it? What, like I didn’t know that you’re supposed to physically escalate with girls so you don’t fall into the friend zone? Or that certain physical cues indicate interest? Or that women like guys whom women like?

Geez, really earthshattering stuff there, O. How did men and women ever get together before Mystery?

“Those are big selling categories and the book was obviously written with sales in mind and that is what those ‘feminazi’ elements were about.”

I wonder how many women actually bought The Game.

I still think he did it not to burn bridges with the PC/feminazi crowd, unless you can convince me that quoting Andrea Dworkin is some kind of marketing genius.

I could live with the “nerd becomes stallion then gets tamed by the love of a good woman” plot. That’s marketing, I accept it.

But the sneaky shit wants to have it both ways: brag about his game and simultaneously project to the world that he’s above it. Fucking insincere. The feminazi trimmings were part and parcel of that. And a two-year old would have guessed the relationship wouldn’t last.

C’mon, are you honestly going to tell me that any guy who pounds 10s gives a shit what Andrea Dworkin writes? For real?

And O, you keep mentioning that you’ve read the good Game books, have done “the inner work”, and that you have made many substantial contributions to this forum regarding game.

Off the top of my head I can’t recall a thing you’ve mentioned about game. Nothing unique, at least. Do you talk about dominance? Nope. You mentioned pussy licking a bit. We know you like to take the seduction process slowly. Nothing other than that stands out. What did I miss? And don’t tell me to reread everything – surely you could make a few points off the top of your head.

K,
Oh come on, don’t tell me you’re gonna get into the act too. Style’s book definitely went against the prevailing social winds-read it. On just about every public media appearance, he’s asked about the neg, etc. His is hardly the stuff of Dear Abby

I’ve read the book, just recently. Here is what I get…

1)Mystery is the world’s best PUA, and can have any women he wants, but despite that he is a manchild and is incapable of finding true happiness and fulfillment. This may actually be and probably is a true assessment of Mystery’s personality, but it’s wholly irrelevant and unnecessary to be included in the book. It was a literary AMOG.

2)Game almost cost Style the girl of his dreams, and he needed to drop his bullshit to win her over and just ‘be himself’.

The Game, is in my opinion, anti-Game thematically (although, still a good book and I don’t believe Style himself to be anti-Game). If it was a purely pro-Game work, and didn’t have the happy ending where Game was really unnecessary to land him Lisa, and the debauched Mystery lived happily ever after sleeping on piles of money with many beautiful women night after night, the book would have been unsellable.

Mystery is built up as a master of seduction, then brought down as being mentally disturbed. Similarly all of the PUAs have some kind of ‘breakdown’ and are disaffected with their PUA lifestyle and it’s implied it had a negative overall effect on their lives. This may all be true, but it’s inclusion in a very short book serve a thematic element. There is subtext here that can’t be ignored. The book covers a long period of time and a lot must have happened, but these specific PUAs and their disaffection with that lifestyle are the ones prominently featured. They all get a righteous AMOGing.

Following along that same theme Style is lifted out of his humdrum existence by being Mystery’s disciple, but ultimately to find true happiness he must leave behind the teachings of his mentor. Noticeably none of the other PUAs come to this same realization and are presumably still stuck in their ruts as the book draws to a close.

The book has a moral message, and it isn’t one that says ‘Be like Style or Mystery; sleep with hundreds of beautiful women because it will make you happy’. I don’t think the book necessarily should have had the latter message, but it didn’t really need a feel-good moralistic theme at all. The point being though, that feel-good moral-of-the-story sells big, and a message of ‘go seduce women; it will make you happy’ isn’t only probably unsellable except to a niche market, but also possibly unpublishable altogether and definitely career destroying for a professional journalist that is going to need or want to wheel and deal in the upper class, feminist infused, liberal entertainment world.

Yuri-

I wonder how many women actually bought The Game.

I don’t have those stats on hand, but it was a pretty popular book. Regardless if women bought it or not, it’s theme and anti-Game subtext made it a socially acceptable non-secretive read for men, for mainstream publishers to push, and for the author to appear on friendly talk shows. Compare the normal treatment PUAs usually get on talk shows.

Like you, I read The Game, and I took away a completely different impression of it. Maybe that had something to do with what I was looking to get out of it-I don’t give a damn about sending out a larger message, I care about improving MY life. Period. And the fact is, that The Game does have some very good info in it, which is why, for example, I couldn’t care less if Mystery was or is as crazy as a bedbug, the fact is, he knows his job. That’s all I care about, getting the information, just like you don’t care about your professors or teachers in school beyond the classroom or your coworkers beyond the workplace. So why do we have to care as to how Style packaged the book? Be glad that the book is out there, is what I say. Eat the fish and leave the bones.

What is it in the book that prevents me from going out and sleeping with a lot of Women if that’s what I want to do, K? I mean, really-what? Because Style said so? Come on. Can’t we just appreciate it for the info it gives and leave it at that, or must we have a “message book” out there ala Tucker Max or something, in order to make a feelgood point? Come on.

Obsidian: Your passive-aggressiveness and over reliance on personal anecdotes is grating as fuck. Just putting it out there so you don’t think this opinion is confined to only a few people on the blog. Your opinions and analysis on game are usually on point, but your petty race baiting force me to skip your most of your posts….

Obsidian says, “Because I see much of what you have to say, as Man older than me, as somewhat adolescent. For example, I never see anything by you about how to connect to a Woman on a level deeper than the pelvis. Now don’t get me wrong, I love sex. But one would think that an older Man would have a bit more depth in these matters, and to date, based on what I see from you here, I don’t get that from you. Not to say you don’t have that depth. Just that you don’t show it here. For whatever reason.”

If I may, as an older woman, I encounter many men like this, as they’re usually most single guys over 40. It seems adolescent because it kind of is, but the age implications aren’t entirely accurate.

Some guys are just very self contained. How they get there varies, but part of it comes from long periods of actual or emotional isolation. One comes to a point when they really don’t need anything deeper emotionally, but their basic drives are still there. So the need the physical aspects of it, but keep a safe emotional distance from people.

As coping strategies, I can’t really say it’s the worst. I mean, if you are not going to get something you want, it’s best to learn not to want that, and replace that desire with something you can get.

…and unfortunately because of the way the world works, being a beautiful woman is like being a rich man. You can find some good ones, but they’re rare. So if you can only have a beautiful woman, and something in you wants to tag great numbers of them, one has to learn not to be picky about personality, and keep things they could possibly wreck well out of their hands.

…like one’s heart.

His own personal depth doesn’t have much to do with it. It’s just that his “romantic” relationships with women might be kind of shallow. I’d wager he has male and maybe some female friends who’d take a bullet for him though.

What American was meant to be and by whom are certainly open to debate. I think a lot of the Indians and slaves of that time period would disagree with you. Further what has this got to do with it? No one wants to racial cleanse it(well no one reasonable)

We have 300 million people, many of whom are unemployed or underemployed. So let’s close the border to get them all jobs first, regardless of race.

Immigration policy should be dictated by health factors (communicable disease? You’re out), criminal record(none allowed, we’ve got enough of our own already), purpose(are they here to fill a specific job, or do they have a family connection? life or death persecution for trivial matters? then OK.)

Back on topic, I don’t get why the HBD guys dis game. It seems to go in line with natural, biological difference.

So, its not about converting them. Couldn’t care less about that. Its about CHALLENGING THEM, because they need to be challenged and held accountable for what they say, X.
..

You’re so full of your own shit, O. You keep talking about blacks being better at game, as if it were some sort of challenge to some anti-black sentiments on this board.

It is not.

Is that difficult to understand?

You are refuting A with B. B is unrelated to A. And not only that, as Doug has clearly pointed out, your B does not hold up to examination.

On the whole, you are not standing up for blacks at all, but are making an ass out of yourself, and clogging up the PUA board with race related talk. Poorly.

Turn the question around: why do they need to harp endlessly on Black folk and lower IQ, WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GAME? Why not ask them that, X? Hmm? Why ask me? Why can’t you ask them?

WTF?

What do you mean “turn the question around”? You aren’t turning anything, you are just changing the subject. Do black folks have on the whole lower IQ or not? If so, then what’s your beef? Doesn’t seem like a “ridiculous” claim at all. I’ve not been paying close enough attention to say with authority, but seems to me most of the time it’s you who brings up the topic of race. It’s not like you are “responding”, as you claim.

X, you’re a Canadian and you wouldn’t understand. This is how it is in America. How it will always be.

I’ve lived for 11 years in the U.S., starting at about age 24. In the places I lived black/white race relations were completely irrelevant. I also spent 6 months of many years as a travelling salesman. In most places I travelled to, race was irrelevant. In most college campuses I sold at it was irrelevant.

To most white people, it is irrelevant. In Whichita or Detroit or Toledo, sure, it’s relevant. Not in Boulder or Orange County or Albuquerque or Akron or Boise or Grand Rapids or Cedar Rapids or Topeka or Ann Arbor.

As for talking about “deep” connections to women. I see THAT as adolescent. Want to read my old peotries?

“Obsidian: Your passive-aggressiveness and over reliance on personal anecdotes is grating as fuck. Just putting it out there so you don’t think this opinion is confined to only a few people on the blog. Your opinions and analysis on game are usually on point, but your petty race baiting force me to skip your most of your posts….”

O: Thanks-I think? And again, notice how this person comes out of the woodwork to address ONLY ME, while remaining utterly silent when others say absolutely ridiculous stuff about other Human Beings. Says a lot.

Xsplat, I’ve lived some of those places. It was relevant. You just can’t be wrong.

Albuquerque???

Anywhere in Idaho???

Come on.

On the flipside, Obsidian, from this, you can see that in some cases, it’s just best to let sleeping dogs lie. Sometimes being the example is better than talking about it.

This is why I never attempt to prove my worth to anyone who has decided I’m worthless. From that point, they become like…well like any other human I don’t know, except that I might piss on a stranger if they were on fire.

I make a note of the people with whom there is no redemption, and do not seek any…just maybe use something useful they might have said as a springboard for discussion or something. Sometimes, target practice when I’m bored. No interest whatsoever in their wellbeing, just their usefulness in reaching people worth reaching.

It takes a lot to earn fire piss status back from me once someone has lost it. Harsh as that might sound though, it keeps things more peaceful, and when not, it keeps things light.

I’ll tell ya what, let’s just agree to disagree, OK? We see things differently, and that’s alright. As I’ve said many times, I’ve never argued the IQ angle in and of itself, what I’ve argued is the political agenda of those who champion such an approach. They are basically use it to scapegoat folks, who at the end of the day aren’t in a position to devise or implement policy. I find that to be morally reprehensible, X. So, again, we’ll agree to disagree.

As for Doug, please see Nicole’s comments, she’s right, I was arguing the simple point that Black Men can and do date, bed and even marry, high end White Women. Period. Doug and others simply refuse to believe this. That’s too bad. Because it can and does happen. Even PA has said as much.

As for your connecting or the lack thereof with Women, I don’t mean crying fests. I mean having something more with a Woman than merely a pump and dump, which is what many here are interested in. That’s fine when you’re a college kid or early to mid 20s. But when you reach a certain age as a Man, it should be a bit more refined than that. Again, I’m far from a prude. Just saying that, for all the talk of low class/crass “Black Game” the true assholes I tend to see just happen to be White. Take Tucker Max, for example. There is nothing I wish to emulate there, even while I freely acknowledge the plain, clear and present fact that quite a few Women do indeed respond to knuckleheads. But that’s not my Game.

I’m just struck by how the ones who make the big deal out of how animalisitic Black guys supposedly act, are in fact the first ones who ape such behaviors in the name of getting Women. Take Gig’s recent comments in this very thread for example. It’s never even occured to me to think or say such things about Women. Yet this is all par for the course for him. And he’s hardly alone.

Meanwhile, the Black guys here strive to be gentlemen in every sense of the word. Funny that.

I mean having something more with a Woman than merely a pump and dump, which is what many here are interested in.

I’m sure I mentioned that I’ve been living with my new girl for over 5 months, and the last one I lived with for 2 years. I could go back from there – all my relationships are in the category of relationship.

Didn’t you pick up on that?

So I have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes, I emphasize the sexual, as it is my philosophy that essential to a good relationship is a very strong sexual bond.

I don’t want a female buddy to grow old with. I want my loving to be sexually charged. For me, that is deep. And if that’s not deep to you, then your sexuality is shallow.

On the way back to Jakarta, I mistakenly deboarded in a transit city, unaware that I was not in Jakarta. My girl, dressed up in a sexy dress, no panties, and black fuck me pumps, was running all around the Jakarta airport terminals, trying to find the KFC I was in. When I finally arrived she made out with me on the spot and fucked me in the taxi.

I’ve also noticed that Style “defends” the PUA community by calling them a bunch of nerds in interviews.

I think that’s a pretty accurate ‘defense’ and indicitive of the personalities of people like Mystery. The way Mystery Method reads, with it’s phases and other technical jargon, is just like a manual. Many things that probably should be written as manuals, like guides for new parents, child psychology books, how to be a good manager/salesmen, et cetera, are often written in a semi-narrative prose. That Mystery chooses for his product to come across as a manual for social interactions says something about him, and his target audience.

Style even writes that Mystery loves his theories. That’s nerdy at face value and his style is appealing to nerds. It analyzes and dissects social interactions for people that are more given to analytical thought. For people that have the confidence to be engineers, or keep on the cutting edge of technology in demanding fields, or any other highly technical skill. It takes something that is seemingly impossibly complex, or ephemeral or is only navigable by people who are naturally charismatic and turns it into another programming language or math proof. It signals to people that would say to themselves, ‘I can learn anything’ that ‘anything’ also encompasses attracting women.

See the term ‘life hacker’. The PUAs that engage in all of their antics; with the technical and affectations of scientific empiricism would almost definitely be considered to have nerdy personalities if their energies were bent towards something other than seduction.

K,
OK. Let’s dive right in.

Obsidian I don’t know what you are saying to me here, or at least why you are saying it. My critique is specifically targeted at the ‘packaging’, not the information about Game. The book is not really about Game or teaching Game anyway. It’s about the ‘package’; the narrative and theme, which is anti-Game. That it does in fact teach some Game seems wholly unintentional to the authors purpose. He has to teach something about Game in order to tell the story; but if he didn’t have to, he wouldn’t have.

You can separate the information, but you can just as easily read Mystery’s material which is actually designed to teach Game and is infinitely more useful; although, I think there are some important things about Style’s Game that you can get from his book, so I’d still encourage reading it.

For example, an above poster saying he is striking out with nerdy 7s. I think Style’s Game, his Frame of being this insanely insightful guy with LSE girls, and tailoring his Negs to them (‘I bet deep down under all that you’re really a blah blah blah girl’) is the right track; whereas Mystery seems to be very focused on primadonna strippers and models, which is a relatively small sampling of the population. Mystery is totally down on throwing out ‘comfort building’ material early, but if a girl has LSE, busting her balls with hard negs and depriving her of any comfort building other than IoIs until mid-Game can be a deal breaker. A huge amount of women have LSE, even relatively attractive ones. It’s a big Mystery Method blind spot in my opinion, not dealing with the pretty ‘girl-next-door’ types that suffer from this, but are still desirable to most men. You can go way stronger than just flipping IoIs with a lot of women early on. Going too light on projecting interest will lose LSE girls, and so will Negging them like they are the hottest girl in the room. Style gets this particular aspect of Game, and portrays it in the book.

To get that useful material from the book though, the narrative and theme need to be sifted out. If you don’t, and actually follow the moral of the story, you won’t do as Mystery does (the guy who knows his job) because doing so will make you unhappy and possibly insane. In the end you won’t get the girl you really want anyway. How many White Knighting suckers do you think walked away from the book with that message in mind? I bet a lot, because that is what the book is actually about and what it is trying to tell the audience.

Key detail missed in that story – no panties and no bra, flimsy short dress.

And today she invited over her cousin, to our small one room apartment. While her cousin cooked, partially out of sight around a corner produced by the walled off bathroom, we fucked, loudly. She was naked. Later she told her cousin to shower, and we fucked again, louder. She allowed her cousin to view one of our better home made porn videos.

Yeah he may be the most successful PUA, at least of the teaching it variety. But he can’t get any A list celebrity beauty he wants. That’s absurd. As are many of the gross PUA overstatements around here.

Not that I’m not a big fan of game, haven’t learned from it, and don’t recognize it in what I taught myself by observing others who were naturally real good for emulatable reasons, and by myself doing a lot of trial and close observance of what worked and what didn’t. Well I was building on natural game abilities but they were also blocked by a fairly chivalric upbringing somewhat offset by a considerable personal level resistance to feminist “the personal is political” radicalism.

Nicole,
I’m glad you joined in, because you’re part of the reason why I’m venting right now.

Not you personally, but the way you’ve been treated by others here. For a long time, I’ve kept my silence on it, but no more. There is simply no good reason to be so downright cruel to another human being. I see people attack you, often viciously, “just because”, never actually taking up what you said.

I mean, at some point, it really makes me ask, are these guys really improving themselves? Yea yea, I get the whole pedestal thing, but you don’t have to be mean about it, or a dickhead. Whatever happened to being a gentleman? That’s what I strive to be, with varying results, lol. But that’s what I aim for, aspire to be. It seems, that a lot of the guys here, strive to be douchebags, no matter what they may want to call it.

I’m aware, and that isn’t my perspective or claim. That is basically a claim made in The Game though, albeit slightly exaggerated by me. That is definitely the theme though; that Mystery is a master seducer of women, only to set up his downfall when it can’t bring him actual happiness. “I can make you attracted to me, but I can’t do it right now,” at the very beginning of the book to the social worker. Style reinforces Mystery’s opinion of himself. “Little does our unsuspecting Asian social worker know yadda yadda yadda…”

K,
Actually, if I had read Mystery Method first, I would have put the book down. Waaaaaay too technical for me. The Game “humanized” Game for me, and that made the difference. Yea, I got the supposed “moral of the story” vibe, I simply flipped past that and focused on the parts of the book that was relevant to my life. Once I got done with The Game, Mystery Method made a lot more sense to me.

My point to you is, other than putting the information out there, I really don’t see what else he could have done. Guys who are sleeping w/dozens of Women are gonna keep doing just that anyway. And guys who aren’t probably aren’t gonna start anytime soon.

Lots of people read books and don’t get anything out of them, we all know this because we’ve all been to school and seen this firsthand. Nothing new there. And when it comes to Game, it’s like what TFH says, most Men went get Game no matter what.

It’s just this “societal” meme that has strong cache in these parts, that’s fascinating to me. As if somehow Style or anyone else can actually change public policy or something. Not. Gonna. Happen. By its design and definition, Game is about addressing the needs of the individual guy. Period. Either he chooses to learn what he can so he can get what he can, or he don’t.

Obsidian, thank you for having my back. Thing is, if you’re going to go after every asshole who pounces on what they view as an easy target, you’re going to be fighting forever, and not getting much done.

It’s better to take a step back, and look at what’s actually going on from a “force of nature” POV.

A woman who comes here needs to be ready to take the heat. We each have our different ways of coping. Since I’m older, and in the business/mission of trying to fix a little of what’s wrong in the corner of the human condition I have some talent related to, it’s in my best interest to be real. That means that I’m going to take a lot of crap for being me, and quite a bit for what I represent in the minds of people who encounter me.

For some, I’m their old Black schoolteacher who favored the Black kids and treated others like, as children, it was their job to pay for their ancestors’ or similarly complexioned predecessors’ crimes. For some, I’m Nell Carter on television playing the superfat nanny who was somehow viewed as sexy, and nobody on the show was allowed to say any different. For some, I’m the Black female bully who beat them up in high school for just *saying* something stupid. For some, I’m the Black or just the fat girl they dated because there wasn’t anyone else. For some, I’m the fat girl they would be duped into dating if they were falling for feminist and food industry hype. For others still, I’m the woman their age who would be currently not putting out, or still receiving half and more of their income after years of sexual manipulation, non cooking, and neglecting the two or three kids I had with them which may or may not be their genetic offspring.

Lots of guys coming to game have lots of baggage. It’s understandable. None of it really applies to me, but if I’m going to be here, I have to be prepared to deal with the fact that I’m not always going to get a rational response.

I can handle that, and give back as good as I get, but only to a point. Some people are really not worth more than a sentence or two, unless I’m using them for a springboard or target practice.

When someone crosses that line in conversation with me or with someone else (perhaps not thinking I care about something I do) then I understand how useful facts or my perspective is to them.

With some people, you’re wasting your time. With someone who’d be happier if you were dead, over some online pettiness, what’s the point of trying to teach them anything?

Just be. Be you and do your thing. Don’t let people drag you down into tediously picking apart their insanity. Just be the proof of the reality.

I started out reading race-based literature from stormfront and a few other similar websites years ago. I find it pretty hard to be offended by anything here. If anything, when an basement dwelling, aspergers case is trying to be over-the-top, “look i can insult a big black man on the internet” offensive – its usually pretty assuming (if you want some real lulz without having to sift through 500 comments, checkout HalfSigma).

The difference, of course, is that Stormfronters have much more defensible social theories and their message boards are apparently populated by normal people. If whyte wimmin are dating blacks because ZOG tells them to, so be it. Probably healthier than denying the reality that your lying eyes tell you.

…that you’re an idiot who knows fuck all about race relations in the U.S. preaching to a Black man in the U.S. and now a Black woman from the U.S. about how gracious he should be in response to other idiots.

We clear?

I’m against grace in this sort of pissing match. I’m for keeping my pants zipped until someone catches fire, and then if someone does, lighting a cig with them.

preaching to a Black man in the U.S. and now a Black woman from the U.S. about how gracious he should be in response to other idiots.

That’s your usual level of reading comprehension.

I doubt your notion, now fixed, is capable of alteration.

I’m not preaching that O be gracious. I’m preaching that he should repeat less and be more entertaining. And that his current communication style is counter productive because it causes the emotional response of irritation.

Doug1,
I was on Temple U’s campus for five years. Known people who either went to or taught at, Drexel, UPenn, Penn State, USP and LaSalle, and spent time visiting each campus as well. I saw with my own eyes, interracial couples. Were they the overwhelming majority, no. Nor have I ever said as much. All I said was, that it IS possible for Black Men to date, bed and marry, higher end White Women. You seem to agree.

Sure. If you succeed at dominating a woman, it means she acquiesced to it.

I understand that some folks prefer to see dominance in solely a negative light, and consider it a pathological control. I’m not using the word in that sense.

Consider the stand-up comic who slays the crowd. He dominates, and they love it. Anyone who is considered a mentor (in contrast to a valued peer) dominates.

When a woman lets you dominate her, gives her power over to you, she is signaling her attraction.

And vice-versa. By gaming a girl, dominating her emotionally and sexually and intellectually, by being as a parent is to a loved child, as a pet owner is to a family dog, by being the accepted master, you cement attraction.

As soon as your domination slips, exactly does your attraction.

In the case of voluntary relationships, you are only as dominant as you have earned.

Damn, what is the point of all this? Same crap all the time. Obsidian, Nicole, you KNOW there’s a double standard in the comments where commenters are hypersensitive about perceived racism from blacks while it takes a way higher threshold of bad behavior for white racism to be considered bad or race-baiting. They’re either incapable or unwilling to admit to this double standard. So why bother thread after thread to try to make them see your side? What’s to gain? It’s pure masochism, you’ll drive yourself crazy.

joe you KNOW there’s a double standard in the comments where commenters are hypersensitive about perceived racism from blacks while it takes a way higher threshold of bad behavior for white racism to be considered bad or race-baiting.

SMH
I think some of them, who deny the racism here really enjoy it and maybe even troll. After all, dana said she has been an internet troll for ten years.

Joe and Ruby,
It is important to speak out on these things. As the late great Paul Robeson once sang: Make Them Hear You.

Nicole,
You’re welcome. I don’t know where the idea that basic decency has gone out of style, and crass uncouth behavior become envogue-from the very people who wish to indict us w/such behavior! Projection much?

the first race threads were cool. Blacks came here with all talks about sexual supremacy and I knocked black women from the pedestal HARD, to general aggreement

then I ellaborated the most consistent theory for racial separation ever heard in America, about maintaing female beauty

than I neutered the Nordicist/bitter crowd and established the superiority of Eastern/Southern europeans in female beauty and Catholicism in everything else, thus reverting alone the tragedy that was Spain´s defeat in 1588.

Ruby says, “For others here — well known and thus not needing to be named — I get the impression that they almost need these useless point-scoring matches to distract themselves from what sad horror composes their daily existence.”

Some have said the same thing about the blogger himself.

I’m inclined to think it’s just that the internet is a nifty means of communication, and folks are using it. Here, one gets to interact with people who might not agree with them, but we’d all like to see men manning up.

Whatever disagreements we have all revolve around how to make that happen. Some of it comes off as harsh, and some of it is unduly vitriolic, but we know all our hearts are in the right place.

I just can’t help considering the times I’ve seen valid questions about “Game” & “Self-Actualization” go idly by,unanswered here, while insipid arguments raged on days after their thread’s momentum died.

I don’t have anything personally invested in the ‘War’ raged here besides a genuine desire to learn about and discuss “Game” with those who have lived and done it. I just wish [and hope for] a blog more conducive to doing so.

Game can do quite a bit. Alpha male game finally won me over after years of rejecting one guy after another. I had both the pleasure and immense disappointment of dating what you might call the lesser alpha. I’d risk bolstering his already enormously inflated ego by giving him any more credit than that–besides. He’s the biggest coward I’ve ever met….But, I digress: The fact is , even as a woman who had never been taken in by anyone “with game,” as a woman who finds it amusing though usually boring and predictable to converse with Betas who think they have a chance, I was played like a piano–no, a harp— by my dear, dear alpha ex, a master of Game. We dated seriously–seriously–for 6 months when one day he just stopped talking to me. He officially ended everything over an f-ing text message.

The sick part about it–Somehow, I KNEW I was being played, and yet I couldn’t help myself. It was too good to be true, though to be fair I never thought for a second he was being insincere. I couldn’t help but let my emotions take over. He knew the right things to say, and I apparently was dumb enough to think that they actually meant something real. I took his games for truth and delighted that he, finally someone I found to be at least my equal, maybe my superior, genuinely loved me. I was wrong.

As devastated and scorned as I am, I have to admit, that he played quite well. More than that: He played with me like a Kitten. If he weren’t such a squirming child, I might allow him promotion to natural alpha–at least for the six months we were together.

So yes, Game can do wonders. A bad boy can win a good girl with game. And if the girl doesn’t hang on to important things, he’ll snag the rug out from under her, steal her youth, and still manage leave her crying–pining for him! naked in the rain.

I at least managed to keep my clothes on while I was crying in the rain.

Ruby, so we’re basically on the same page. Too many guys here are worried about the wrong thing.

As I keep saying though, no amount of training will turn a sheep into a wolf. You can make it eat meat and maybe even like it, but you can’t make it want to hunt. Nature is what it is.

Since I find the peanut gallery tiresome to deal with anyway, I’ll do my part to not add to the noise that they provide. I’m female, and it feels like doing something naughty posting here anyway. So I’ll shut up when I don’t have anything particularly constructive to offer.

…like in this case…

DJoye, good job for keeping your clothes on. You may not see it this way, but he payed you a great respect by disappearing when you didn’t put out, or you showed him you were not the sort of girl he wouldn’t damage by using.

You are thrust into an alternate universe where you are faced with a stark choice:

You can either relax into your given environment where you have the opportunity to fuck slightly younger type chicks in the sordid and seedy manner in which such women need to be gamed, while still retaining your freedom and ability to jump from chick to chick…

or

You bite the bullet and decide to “go SWPL” in your lifestyle and endear yourself to a higher class of women — whom are generally more attractive, or at least more refined and gracile, but who insist on SWPL triflings in matters cultural. Apart from their college humanties femi-multi-cult indoctrination, they do engage you on a more sophisticated intellectual level. They may or may not be as uninhibited and nasty in the sack as the slut types, and in addition, they tend to be sticklers for some semblance of commitment.

What do you do?

Choose your own adventure.

(Reaction time is a factor…)

scenario two.
annoying cultural tics and low key hip swiveling in the sack are lesser sins than grating loudmouthed stupidity. as for commitment… hey, you’ll never meet a guy more committed to his harem than me!

Just want you folks to know Bhetti THOUGHT the rabbit died but it was just zoned out from all the race talk. So I’m not preggers. Doug and I have NOT done the act it would have been cheating and I am AGAINST cheating no matter what Default says. Just sayin…

Or do you just pretend like you don’t see them hiding outside of your house, or behind the mailbox, maybe up in a tree….I’m trying to think of places a stalker could hide while still being close enough to throw a molotov cocktail at you when you come out the front door. Nothing says stalker obsessed love like fire.

On the way back to Jakarta, I mistakenly deboarded in a transit city, unaware that I was not in Jakarta. My girl, dressed up in a sexy dress, no panties, and black fuck me pumps, was running all around the Jakarta airport terminals, trying to find the KFC I was in. When I finally arrived she made out with me on the spot and fucked me in the taxi.

Don’t laugh at John Gosselin. Because he’s famous, he scores lots of hot women. Same for (the guy I was trying to think of) Jared Leto. A grade D list actor, who scores amazingly with women. Same with Brand, same with Hugh Grant, same with almost any sleazebag Grade D list male celeb.

Meanwhile, the things that make a male Alpha, power and patronage, matter a lot to men but are irrelevant to women. I used to ask my male HS students who they’d rather be: Arnold Schwarzenneger or Bill Gates. To a boy, they chose Arnold: he got the girls, while Gates was a nerd who had to settle for a PM in his own company.

Is Gates an Alpha leader of men, far more powerful than Arnold, and wielding immense wealth? Sure. But who married the celebrity, with zillion mistresses on the side?
***********

Well, it goes to show that one’s social population, and one’s short term vs. long term, goals, matters.

Picture a 21-year-old guy who was the captain of the Brazilian water polo team, who recently emigrated to this country and is working as a dishwasher in a restaurant. Would he be an alpha male with whatever 21-year-old women he meets? Hell yeah!!! Fast forward 15 years. He’s still a dishwasher. Would he still be able to attract a good-looking, sexy women of breeding age? Less likely. Now picture a 36-year-old CEO, doctor, or partner in a law firm, or successful entrepreneur (at least $100,000 disposable income). Who do you think will attract the more desirable females?

Like I said, it depends on what your population and long- or short-term goals are. If your population is “girls in this club right now,” and your goal is “the next few hours,” then yeah, go ahead and do the easy, lazy, non-leadership stuff. Or you can do some stunt and get famous like Jon Gosselin. (Do you really think his women are attractive? EWWWW!!! He will be forgotten, except as a figure of ridicule, soon enough. You aspire to be him???) Maybe you’ll get laid. If that is the highlight of your week/ month/ year — congrats, buddy.

Now — would you rather be Arnold Schwarzengger rather than Bill Gates? Really, that’s an honest question I have. Both men are Alpha in my book. They could have their pick of women, I imagine. Maybe different kinds of women, personality-wise, but still women who are “hot” and beautiful in the way that men think. If Gates wanted a harem for himself, I imagine it wouldn’t be a problem. Just because he doesn’t show up in the gossip pages doesn’t mean he couldn’t. Hell, I wouldn’t put it past him to have bought out Senators and Congressmen or otherwise exercised power and influence in some insidious under-the-rader way by now.

Your response makes me think that you are around 22 years old, frankly.

That is true exception nothing says love like fire but sometimes they have enablers. I was woken up from deep sleep around 0130 am by some chick talking to me. I am like thats not my sister. But yea I am a little freaked out lol. Then I get up and sister and her friend are drunk as fuck I guess sister won the drinking game. I am like ok good job. Then sis is the enabler and is like my friend says she wants your penis. I am like ok right umm They are both laughing and giddy. Continue the peen comments it was surreal my sis pimped me out to her friend. I felt used. lol I didn’t completely let the drunk chick take advantage of me though. I told her I missed the cuddling the most. So that is what we did. It was cute.

Also, regarding your survey of high-school boys on whether they’d rather be Schwarzenegger or Gates — who would you rather be? And, how much older are you than those guys?

If your measure of success as to Alpha maleness is how many celebrity/hot women or mistresses one has, do you seriously think Gates would fall behind Arnold? Do you really think Gates “settles” for anything?

Pupu has a burning question and would like to hear expert opinion on the issue.

Should an alpha male, in a private setting (with his girl), fart loudly or quietly?

He should fart until it burns. Burp simultaneously as well, if he has any balls. Fart vigorously and often – enough to stain himself.

MegaAlphas {(tm) firepower productions inc. 2009} will blare like the brass horn section of the London Philharmonic, then, to prove their Meganess – have her wipe.
””””””””’
still laughing wtf was that.

Gunslingergregi: I think I’m really lucky that I don’t have any sisters, just a brother in law enforcement in another state. He’s a little arrogant when it comes to his assumption that he has a superior level of knowledge about the criminal mind and so forth. Probably pisses him off to no end when he has to concede anything to his little sister, but he’d never admit it because he doesn’t trust me not to rub it in around the rest of the family. The silly thing is that I would never do that, I get enough out of just being able to trump him when it’s between him and I, nor have I ever been otherwise.

You didn’t let the chick take advantage of you? What kind of man are you?!? I can’t believe you would pass up an opportunity 😉 Your sister should not be mentioning your penis in any capacity though. That’s weird. At least she seems to have your best interests in mind..in a weird way.

Drunken chicks should not wear high heels or miniskirts when they plan to be out and completely unsupervised.

”””””””Seeking Alpha,
Incidentally this jives with my theory on happiness and setting reasonable goals that PA mentioned a couple days ago.

When women just had to be loving and caring, a good wife and mother, any woman could successfully accomplish these goals with just a bit of effort, thus guaranteeing easy happiness.

Now that they’re told to go be strong woman with careers and families, not only is it very difficult to have a successful career, but it is almost impossible to be successful at both career and family.
”””””””’

Exactly achievable goals are important for woman. Otherwise you get all fucked up. Not impossible if your “career” involves 20 days a year of work then you can have it all. It is just that college ain’t teaching woman how to do that. Only real life examples will show the way to happiness and enlightenment. Books will not have the same pull on your soul. They have initial impact but not inner impact to the extent of change.