Hey guys, I"m down to '4950 again with a Rogue this time. I thought I'd try one since they are a bit improved in this new version. I've been down here a few times, but never challenged Sauron before dying. Here is my info:

Anyone mind taking a look and let me know if I'm doing anything stupid, like not wearing the right thing or not carrying something important? At the moment, I'm just going around collecting artifacts and consumables. Any advice to help me finally get a winner will be appreciated.

You might want to use Hurin against Suaron. But then you lose resPoison. Maybe swap Barahir in for Narya to give you poison and dark. Whatever you do, don't lose resNexus agaist Sauron. Some bolts of acid or slay evil would be a nice find.

Attacking Sauron at cl 35 is an impressive feat. For easiest win, you need to do is find (or build) a small network of twisty passages, away from any large rooms, with ASC's to slip into. You may want to make a circular anti-summoning corridor.

And take a lot of !CCW and ?Phase. (Buy out the store until you have 50+ CCW.) Don't worry about rPoison for the fight; you can use the spell if you are worried about poison. And DO use the weapon with the most damage--Sauron is Evil and acid-vulnerable. (Use either Hurin or Orome+RoAcid instead of Narya.)

At cl 35, you will want to use a big stack of !Hero and ?Chant from the store, because Sauron has a very high AC. (Use them in town, so you don't have to carry it or waste mana on the spell. It will last plenty long for a single fight.)

You might want to walk around killing some Wyrms and other easy targets to get your cl up a little more.

If you don't have Fire immunity, make sure to use the resistance spell or potions. Same for Cold, just in case he summons.

Thanks for the advice, guys. I actually didn't realize I was only cl 35 as I haven't been paying attention to that, lol. I'm going to level up a lot more to improve my chances of getting a win. A few more questions:

1)What are the !CCW for if I have rConf and rBlind? Just the healing? I forgot that they heal a % of dmg now, so maybe that is what they are useful for?

2)Do multiple !hero and ?bless stack? I never knew that. Does it just prolong the duration or increase the effects?

3) I've been ignore rings of Ice, Acid, Damage etc. in favor of artifacts...do they increase damage by a lot?

4) Speed: How much is too much? I have +27 at the moment and I can cast haste to bump it up to +37. Once I'm past 20, does it matter much? Is 27 or 25 any better than 20?

5) Stats: I know that stats are maxed when you see 18/*** or something like that. Am I correct in thinking that stat potions can't get you to the max but that you have to have +stats from equipment to get there?

Sorry for all of the questions...feel free to point me to a reference. I thought some of these things may have changed since the last patch, though (I'm playing the newest beta). Thanks!

Thanks for the advice, guys. I actually didn't realize I was only cl 35 as I haven't been paying attention to that, lol. I'm going to level up a lot more to improve my chances of getting a win. A few more questions:

1)What are the !CCW for if I have rConf and rBlind? Just the healing? I forgot that they heal a % of dmg now, so maybe that is what they are useful for?

Yes. Once you are down a couple hundred HP, they heal quite a bit. Since !heal is so rare now, it's good to use !CCW when you can. Make sure you don't eat before the fight, because too much CCW will fill up your stomach. (Don't use Satisfy Hunger.) You are safe down to ~600 HP. At 550 HP, Sauron can kill you in one Mana Storm.

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2)Do multiple !hero and ?bless stack? I never knew that. Does it just prolong the duration or increase the effects?

It prolongs duration. Same for all buffing spells except Haste Self.

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3) I've been ignore rings of Ice, Acid, Damage etc. in favor of artifacts...do they increase damage by a lot?

Rings of Damage are mostly obsoleted by the Elven rings, but Rings of Acid can do massive damage vs Sauron, though they are useless against Morgoth. WIth a 4d6 weapon (Orome), a RoAcid will add

4*3.5*(3-1) =28 dam/blow(!)

compared with only +6 or +7 (counting STR) for Narya. With 5 blows, that's a 100 dam/turn difference. (Note that a RoAcid won't help if your weapon is already branded with Acid.)

Rings of Ice (especially) and Fire are less useful than Acid, because more monsters are immune. Rings of Lightning are less useful because Sauron is immune.

This is a new feature in 3.1. I consider it an improvement.

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4) Speed: How much is too much? I have +27 at the moment and I can cast haste to bump it up to +37. Once I'm past 20, does it matter much? Is 27 or 25 any better than 20?

It's better against Morgoth, a little, because of his Brain Smash spell. Once you are at +20 speed, more damage is generally better than a little more speed.

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5) Stats: I know that stats are maxed when you see 18/*** or something like that. Am I correct in thinking that stat potions can't get you to the max but that you have to have +stats from equipment to get there?

That's right. Potions only get the "base" stat (column 1) to 18/100, not beyond.

Pete, your wealth of knowledge is amazing. Thanks a lot! One more question since it didn't get any responses in my other post: Is there a better way to clear nasty vaults than by using *Destruction* and picking out the left over artifacts as a Rogue? What about other classes? I'm talking about vaults that are too risky to attempt to TO everything away.

I have found Mass Genocide works very well keeps the rooms in tact so you get all the stat potions and scrolls of *Acquirement* safe.

I hunt vaults in *band like it's my job. It's my favorite part of the game. My title on the forums should be Vault Hunter. I have two strategies based on character and gear:

1) "Empty the bucket" - Go into the outer room of the vault and light it up (or if there is no outer room, use something of aggravation if available). This'll get the monsters riled up. Then stand a ways away and use a wand of stone to mud on the vault "door" segment and let all the baddies out. Keep them from LoSing you, get them all into an area and then *Destruction* them all. This preserves the loot and structure of the vault, though less finesse than the other methods and you lose any items the monsters have already picked up. You also might have to Teleport yourself away and approach again if you pulled out any nasty Uniques.

2) "Untouchable" - Stock up on TO and creep into the vault (without lighting it up) and TO everything you see that you can't kill in 1 shot. Keep in mind that some monsters can pick up loot so as soon as you see the vault, try to identify the ones that can pick up stuff and which ones can't. Also keep in mind artifacts can't be picked up by monsters.

3) "Hey look, free loot" - For later in the game, activate your armor or read a scroll for Mass Genocide while standing right next to (or ideally, in a section of) the vault. TO away any uniques you can't handle. This technique is like a dry martini with 2 olives. Hard to make a habit out of it, but it's oh so nice when you want it. Owning The Great Axe of Eonwe is like owning your own bar.

I have found Mass Genocide works very well keeps the rooms in tact so you get all the stat potions and scrolls of *Acquirement* safe.

I hunt vaults in *band like it's my job. It's my favorite part of the game. My title on the forums should be Vault Hunter. I have two strategies based on character and gear:

1) "Empty the bucket" - Go into the outer room of the vault and light it up (or if there is no outer room, use something of aggravation if available). This'll get the monsters riled up. Then stand a ways away and use a wand of stone to mud on the vault "door" segment and let all the baddies out. Keep them from LoSing you, get them all into an area and then *Destruction* them all. This preserves the loot and structure of the vault, though less finesse than the other methods and you lose any items the monsters have already picked up. You also might have to Teleport yourself away and approach again if you pulled out any nasty Uniques.

2) "Untouchable" - Stock up on TO and creep into the vault (without lighting it up) and TO everything you see that you can't kill in 1 shot. Keep in mind that some monsters can pick up loot so as soon as you see the vault, try to identify the ones that can pick up stuff and which ones can't. Also keep in mind artifacts can't be picked up by monsters.

3) "Hey look, free loot" - For later in the game, activate your armor or read a scroll for Mass Genocide while standing right next to (or ideally, in a section of) the vault. TO away any uniques you can't handle. This technique is like a dry martini with 2 olives. Hard to make a habit out of it, but it's oh so nice when you want it. Owning The Great Axe of Eonwe is like owning your own bar.

Thanks for the tips! I wish I'd find more genecide and mass genecide...they seem to be incredibly rare, even on '4950 for me.