Always compete is about learning to be the best you can be by competing not only against others but with yourself. It's about always striving to do the best you can and maximize your abilities. It's not just about 'beat the other guy or you're screwed'--in fact that would be contrary to what Pete wants.

I blame the 12th man....thats right, if all you yelling/screaming lunatics had not created that overexcited atmosphere at the CLink our boys would not be feeling so pressured to satisfy the masses. So ssshhhhh for crying out loud before you ruin the whole damn season.

SeaTown81 wrote:I only listen to and read journalists who I agree with 100%! Dissenting thought will not be tolerated! How dare anyone question my opinions and the things I hold dear! Burn the witch!!!

This is a strawman fallacy. No one has argued this, nor is anyone arguing that dissenting thought is the reason that Brewer's argument is a bad one. You are making up this argument, pretending that those who criticize Brewer have made it, and then knocking it down.

Let's try to be intellectually honest, here. Why do you think that Brewer's argument has merit?

The only merit Brewer's argument has is that it got people's attention and emotional engagement. It's a stupid, stupid argument, but hey, a lot of us bit. That's his job. Get people emotionally engaged and paying attention to you and the media outlet you represent. They don't have to *like* you, as long as they are reading you and your media employer, and are emotionally engaged. It was amusing watching the BS distortion and spin by the national media on "Fail Mary" and only local Seattle media showed the backside angles that supported the refs. National media was only about emotionally engaging butt-hurt Packer fans and attracting them to their sites to vent. Brewer is just using a variation of that formula, attacking PC to get our attention and emotional involvement, and TRAFFIC to his media outlet ma$ter. It's not like you should legitimately take him seriously on this.

Jville wrote:That perspective reminds me of those that have argued that Americans are to blame for 9-11.

That no fault mentality bestowed on offenders. That automatic reflex to aid their escape from responsibility. Made possible by this nation state's preoccupation with deflecting accountablity ...... "The blame game"

Don't remember people blaming America for 9-11 rather than other people accusing them of blaming America when merely pointing out that it's not a simple, black & white world we live in, and our long history of propping up horrifying dictators when it's suited us (Saddam Hussein, Mubarak, etc) and funding and training terrorists OURSELVES (like Al Queda during the Eighties).....all things that simply point out that things in this life are complex, and can't be diluted down to simplistic catch-phrases. Kind of like when fans or players dismiss criticism as "ahh, they're just haters."

And to veer back onto topic, Bruce Irvin DID accept responsibility, so isn't that really the whole point?

The function of this emotional engagement was to bypass our critical thinking about 9-11 by going straight to our emotions. Worked on hundreds of millions of us for years. Kept hundreds of millions of Americans from asking hard questions about what really happened, and the ridiculousness of the official story, "19 Arabs with boxcutters, controlled by a guy in a cave in Afghanistan, defeated our $400 billion air defense system." Kept us from talking about the unexplainable collapse of World Trade Center 7. Kept us from talking about the too-small-for-757-hole in the Pentagon. It's how media controlled by the ruling class works. So Americans ARE to blame for being HUMAN and being susceptible to propaganda and media story spin techniques that have been shown, over decades, to be successful on an aggregate group of humans. The ruling cla$$ count$ on thi$.

My point was that people weren't "hating" on America by pointing out that sometimes some of the things we do ends up biting us in the ass. Arming and training Bin Laden's boys up in the hills of Afghanistan is the perfect example. Might not of been our best choice ever and expediency in arming anyone who is anti-Soviet just because wasn't our finest hour.

The other point I've heard is that it's easy to complain about what others do (those bad guys out there), but it's ultimately futile since you can't control what other people/groups do. That's why being self-critical is so important since that's covering something you CAN do something about. It has nothing to do with letting the perpetrators off the hook, but looking to see if there are ways we can improve how WE do things. At least in theory that's what living in a democracy is all about. Checks and balances...of the people and by the people and all that.

I'd say this thread is being self-critical (ie it's our team) but then there really isn't anything we can do about what our front office does...other than pressure them from the outside. It's often stated how we're just a message board and what we say doesn't count, but the "will" of the fans seems to have more effect than one might first think. Teams DO pay attention to their fan base.

49ers webzone: Win or lose, i hope you injure Sherman. Like a serious career ending injury. I don't want him to get paid.49ers webzone: noise should not be the overwhelming reason a team is favored. they need to spray noise-damping foam onto the ceiling of that place.

I can MAYBE see this.. MAYBE if the guys testing positive for Adderall/Other PED's were say..

Jeremy LaneJaye HowardJermaine Kearse

And so forth. The guys who have been popped recently are all starters and lets face it, no one is beating out Richard Sherman/Brandon Browner or Bruce Irvin for their jobs right now. They're all key figures.

So this article and the idea that 'competition' breeds cheating is absolutely ridiculous. For whatever reason these guys took Adderall (also widely used in the party scene), got caught.. and that's the end.

ImTheScientist wrote:This guy is the closest thing to beast mode we will ever see. You got a glimpse of that yesterday. He was instantly my favorite player when they signed him. Give the dude a chance and don't overreact or overthink preseason. Go Hawks. Lacy will rush for 1,100 and 10TDs. Bend the knee.

A couple of the guys, Barbre and Maxwell, fit the mold of your examples. It's entirely possible Irvin used Adderall for recreation but it's also possible the PED he was using wasn't even Adderall. Irvin might be pretty much guaranteed a significant role on the team even if only as a passing down rusher, but we also brought in Avril, watched Irvin get manhandled as a starter vs ATL, and heightened our collective expectations for the upcoming season. He might not be competing for a roster spot but he is competing for playing time and all the possible benefits of being a prolific starting pass rusher.

BirdsCommaAngry wrote:A couple of the guys, Barbre and Maxwell, fit the mold of your examples. It's entirely possible Irvin used Adderall for recreation but it's also possible the PED he was using wasn't even Adderall. Irvin might be pretty much guaranteed a significant role on the team even if only as a passing down rusher, but we also brought in Avril, watched Irvin get manhandled as a starter vs ATL, and heightened our collective expectations for the upcoming season. He might not be competing for a roster spot but he is competing for playing time and all the possible benefits of being a prolific starting pass rusher.

The problem with your thinking is that is universal throughout the league. The majority of players busted for PED's are backups/fringe starters. Not a whole lot of high profile stars have been caught.

No one has proved this is a "competitive issue' that isn't common throughout the league that's why I don't buy Brewer's logic.

Except for Danny O'Neal that fish wrap hasn't had any decent writers. I read Brewer's first article when he arrived and have not read another since. There are enough Seattle bloggers with better insight and sense I haven't regretted not reading the Times.

Thomas Paine: To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead

SeaTown81 wrote:I only listen to and read journalists who I agree with 100%! Dissenting thought will not be tolerated! How dare anyone question my opinions and the things I hold dear! Burn the witch!!!

Damn those witches who disagree with a journalist because they disagree with their positions! Those are the witches that require most burning of all. Who the hell do they think they are? Disagreeing with a journalist? Nazis, fascists, socialists, tyrannical despots --we need to burn the witches who disagree with a journalist and make their opinions known! Anyone who disagrees with a journalist is a Nazi, perhaps Adolf reincarnate!

WestcoastSteve wrote:The problem with your thinking is that is universal throughout the league. The majority of players busted for PED's are backups/fringe starters. Not a whole lot of high profile stars have been caught.

No one has proved this is a "competitive issue' that isn't common throughout the league that's why I don't buy Brewer's logic.

Well, nothing can be literally proven about a subject like this - even by individuals privy to the inner workers of our team. It's all people theory which is as much art as it is science. I maintain the "competitive issue" may be more prevalent on our squad than those with older players and coaching staffs using more dated and rigid methodologies. This isn't because we talk about or emphasize competition more or anything like that but because we're better at acquiring and training players who fit what we mean by all that talk about competition. If this is true and the way we do things does lead to increased PED use, it's still not really an issue as much as it is a hiccup on an otherwise progressive process.

In the end, we don't, won't, and can't know enough to say anything with any realistic conviction. We can only make approximations. This is the mistake Brewer makes in regard to accuracy but if he instead wrote or spoke about how vague of an issue this really is, he probably wouldn't maintain as many listeners or readers. There's just too many consumers that want things made to appear simple even when it's anything but.

SeaTown81 wrote:I only listen to and read journalists who I agree with 100%! Dissenting thought will not be tolerated! How dare anyone question my opinions and the things I hold dear! Burn the witch!!!

Damn those witches who disagree with a journalist because they disagree with their positions! Those are the witches that require most burning of all. Who the hell do they think they are? Disagreeing with a journalist? Nazis, fascists, socialists, tyrannical despots --we need to burn the witches who disagree with a journalist and make their opinions known! Anyone who disagrees with a journalist is a Nazi, perhaps Adolf reincarnate!

Disagreeing is perfectly fine and one thing. Outright dismissal and pot shots at people you do not agree with is another. Did you not read all the responses in this thread? "Brewer's a hack!" "Why would anyone listen to that fool?" "What an idiot!" It's a sad epedemic that plagues the internet and society in general today. "I don't agree with this! So and so is an idiot! Nothing he says should be taken serious!" This along with not even attempting to understand or listen to the viewpoint you don't agree with really makes people ignorant and close-minded. Politics and media has polarized society to such extremes, that there is no longer anything to be won by taking a differing opinion or middle ground. All people do is shout you down or sing your praises depending which extreme they subscribe to. I'm sorry if you don't see it. But we live in an obnoxiously ignorant society. People no longer are willing to listen to anything other than what they want to hear. Anything otherwise is sacriledge or a sign of weakness. Sorry if you disagree. But there is much to gain from considering opposing and differing takes and viewpoints. There can be merit found EVEN WHEN YOU DISAGREE.