Either Through War Or Financial Collapse: “It Will Be Very Painful”

Well known contrarian economist Dr. Doom Marc Faber weighs in on the state of the global economy and current events.

Despite being ignored by his many colleagues in economic circles for his dire warnings ahead of the crash of 2008, Faber has been on the mark about how stock markets would behave, what governments would do, and the subsequent effects on the global populace.

In general, if you look at the world, say compared to the 1950’s, the 1960’s and even the 70’s, it’s very clear that financial markets have grown disproportionately compared to the real economy. In other words, you have a global GDP of $60 Trillion and you have financial markets that turn $60 trillion around in a week or less.

I believe that one day this financial bubble will have to adjust to the down side.

Either it will have to adjust to the downside because we have an inflationary burst, or we have a collapse of the system.

We don’t know exactly how the end game will be played.

…

It’s going to end one day. And when it ends, either through war or through a financial collapse, it will be very painful.

According to the good doctor, as we’ve seen throughout history, when governments begin to lose the confidence of their people through economic collapse they often turn to war. And this time will be no different, as Faber has previously forecast that World War III will occur in the next five years.

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Should we really get to a point where war comes to our shores, I fear that ‘prepping’ in the traditional sense, as in stockpiling at home, will not be enough.

In this climate it is not out of the question to consider absolute worst case scenarios that will require evacuation of your primary residence. The same could be said for a situation such as ‘full police state’ where ‘they’ come looking for dissidents.

That being said, the skills to build shelter, cold camp, live 100% off grid, hunt, fish, concealment, etc. would be absolutely essential.

Are we over reacting? I often ask myself this question… then I read the news, articles and analysis coming out alt media daily and it reinforces our prepping and survival plans…

An economic collapse is recoverable eventually, the basic things a human race needs is probably going to still be there as long as the nuclear reactors don’t go into meltdown or something. World War 3 is a different story.

Throughout all of history mankind has used EVERY single weapon of war that they possessed. Even the nazis used nerve gas to kill, but not extensively on the battlefield. There is no way that World War 3 would remain conventional. The second that either side that has nukes is losing, the nuclear bombs WILL be used. the second that any of the nuclear’s countries borders are breached, nukes go flying. If China for example had U.S. bomber planes hitting the mainland with conventional weapons, the next few seconds the ICBM’s and SLBM’s would be on their way to the mainland of the U.S.

There is a grave misconception that World War 3 will be fought like the previous two world wars and then after a few years it will end and countries will rebuild and everything will be back to “normal”. No, it will look like The Day After or Threads movies. If you are an American general, Chinese leader, Russian whatever, there is no way that you are going to consider any enterance into your airspace as anything but a nuclear run. Launch on warning.

I see this again and again throughout the internet that people feel that World War 3 is no big deal and it is something we will read about each day in the newspapers and hear about on the news. That life will go on just like usual. WW3 means the end of human civilization for decades, centuries, or forever. People will of course survive, but society won’t. This same naiveness about WW3 is shown in the best animation film ever made about WW3 in the movie “When the Wind Blows”. Anyone doubting just want WW3 really means needs to check this out.

The ONLY chance anyone is going to have to survive what is coming is exactly what Norse Prepper says above. Only 1% of the population understands this, so the die off when this happens or even some mega black swan event will be extreme. I still highly advice EVERYONE to learn about radiation safety and how to safeguard yourselves as best as possible. It may not be nuclear war, it could be some natural disaster like the New Madrid breaking that triggers widespread radiation. How many people saw Fukushima coming? Close to zero. An EMP could cause mass meltdowns. Radiation prepedness is probably one of the least dangers that people are ready for and one of the most needed to know the most about.

@ Man on the inside. Real good link. The book you can get online “Nuclear War Survival Skills” is one of best most inofrmative books there is out there on radiation information. Kearny shows how anyone can make a radiation meter that works quite well out of household items. It doesn’t have to be a nuclear war either. Terrorists could always set off a plutonium powder dirty bomb if they don’t have enough plutonium for critical mass to make a nuke. Even spent nuclear fuel in a dirty bomb would contaminate much area depending on the wind. The government in such a case would probably not give people accurate information, and everyone would be on their own then. Knowing the facts on any disaster helps a lot the chances of getting through such a catastrophe.

BI,
I’m reading “The Black Swan (second edition)” by Nassim Nicholas Taleb, A Greek Orthodox Lebanese who live through the 15 year war in Lebanon and went on to get a Ph.D. the thesis of which is the mathematics of derivatives. The thesis of the book is how important Black Swan events have been throughout history and how lame is the power of prediction using a Bell Curve. It’s been a page-turner so far.

“I don’t know what weapons will be used to fight World War 3, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones.”

I only hope that future history will quit calling these catastrophes World Wars, and start referring to them in their correct nomenclature. Bankster Wars.

There is not a single Man or Woman in ANY country that wants a war, or ever has. Only the monsters that are banksters. They alone drive their governments to such unnecessary destruction for profit.

I hope Bankster War 3 is the final one. There is hope because their scam is no longer hidden as it has been throughout time. Enough of us know the cause to implement the cure to the bankster illness that plagues mankind.

1/3 of all people alive today will die in the flesh once everything breaks loose. war,famine,disaster,pestilence and so on. this is meant to bring the world to its knees and ready to accept THE antichrist. not just another antichrist but the first of the fallen. the devil himself to appear as saviour of the world; wanting total worship and doing wonders for the world and its kings to whore after. he is released, kicked out of Heaven and sent down to earth with his 7 thousand fallen angels(who will take on the role of acsended master, source of all religion, aliens and w/e else people have been tricked into believing).

Thank you for that advise. I’ve also been reading articles abou leaks in some of our own nuclear plants. I have some radiation tablets in that event, but will stock up for entire family now. God Bless.

@Mac
“Are we overeacting?”
I wonder what the refugees in Syria would think? Guess we could just ask Selco. Or perhaps some of the remaining Japanese who were sent to internment camps in WWII,
Doesnt matter how it all comes tumbling down, the scary reality is that we may need to have a plan B, C, D etc etc etc,, cause shit happens.
JW Rawles books give a pretty good picture, only in my pessimistic mind a little too happy an ending, war and people are evil, our society lack the basic politeness and respect of days gone by, just flip on the tv for a bit and look at the garbage they pass off as entertainment, and the human crap that is all too willing to prance around in front of the cameras.
Nothing short of a total reset is needed, and nothing short of a total collapse will bring it.

War makes good men better and bad men worse! Ask yourself where do you stand ? Would you only kill another to defend yourself and the defensless? Or would you kill to obtain supplies from someone else? Once the line is crossed there is no turning back !

That and no more cellphones, no more computers,
Want entertainment? Break out the cards, im thinking learn how to play the guitar!
I wont miss the phone even though im on it right now, i would be contemplating other stuff if this thing was dead,

I agree. With the advent of the Utah Data Center, the government, once it decides to call martial law, will go after the preppers and steal their supplies.
Just don’t keep it all in one place. Most important:
Matthew 6:19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.

We must keep our oil lamps full and our spiritual house in order. God is our true protection and safety.

I see so many wanting to survive but few have the spirit of God for there survival of an everlasting life.
1/10 will survive. That leaves little room for non believers.
God will put you in a situation where there is only the LORD your God to save you.

Keep in mind that when it becomes necessary to evacuate your primary residence, and even with the skills to be able to hunt, fish, cold camp etc in the wilderness… that you will be joining 10’s of thousands of other people out there attempting to hunt, fish and cold camp. Although this is probably a decent plan, you should have a plan C, plan D and plan E.

For those of you who believe in G-d, this per Christ
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
When prepping take the needy into account.
For those of you who don’t believe in G-d, find a damn good substitute. The shit has hit the fan. The smell just hasn’t caught up with it yet ! Prep as though you and your familie’s lives depend upon it. Because it does.

SEE ! That’s what I’m talking about! Count me in!
“But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” read that somewhere…

Talking with my brother in law over the weekend, About what is going on around world and Amerika. People just do not see what is going on. He wanted me to get preps for him. He would pay me to do it for him???????? Know one wants to face the music. Do it for him??? WTF??? How do I know what he needs? No accountability what so ever. Good luck people!! Get it while the getting is good!!!!!!

That is good that your brother in law is waking up and wanting to make preparations for his family. Maybe he is overwhelmed and doesn’t know what he needs or where to begin. (I remember I felt OVERWHELMED when I first started prepping a few years ago.) Sit down with him (and his wife) and HELP HIM get an order started.

A couple years ago my Dad asked me to help him order some preparedness food and items. Although in a wheelchair and diabetic, he was awake and understood what was going on in the world. Although in a different state, I spoke with my Mom and Dad and got a list of foods they eat and started from there. I helped them get an order together and Dad paid for it. My Dad has since died, but the preps are now with Mom at the house.

There are many articles with suggestions to get started. The article “20 Things You Will Need to Survive When the Economy Collapses and the Next Great Depression Begins” (posted here on 5/10/10) is short and provides a basic list. Maybe you could print it out and give it to him.

I am not Mormon, but have ordered items at their LDS website. Prices are very reasonable. Shipping is free.

I’ve been buying cases of food from the LDS store for some time, and they really do have their act together. Sent a few to my brother, too, who seems to want someone else to fix him up. Too bad he mostly tries to soak the old folks to get things done but, there it is.

You can do your best to help weak relatives and friends but they are going to have to help themselves when it falls apart. Those who are willfully weak, I mean. We will have to keep on helping the aged and handicapped ourselves as long as possible.

I am STILL overwhelmed but I am aware.
I would add the list for prepping in 52 weeks to your list but as usual solid and very helpful.
The best thing I get from this site is genuine and informative aid.
Thanks too all of you who contribute to my prepping plan.

May I suggest an improvement to the first and a solution for the last items above?

Forget fluoride-laced toothpaste. Get 3% hydrogen peroxide and baking soda and your teeth will be the whitest in your bunker, plus the H3O is great for medicinal cleaning and the baking soda for cooking etc. Both cheap as hell as opposed to toothpaste today.

This stuff is the most effective hypoallergenic deodorant I’ve even tried. You can find hundreds of positive reviews on this stuff around the Net. If you can keep clean, nothing works better to prevent odor, not just mask it. And one roll-on can last up to a year. Great stuff.

It’s important to look and smell good when you greet the Blue Helmets in the street.

Can everyone just feel this coming, it’s just in the air. I don’t know how to describe it but I know so many people that don’t want to think about it, acknowledge it, or deal with it..and all I can think is how can you not? Does everyone feel this heavy sense of these horrible events that are coming. How anyone can try to be in denial of it is out of my realm of possibility. My friends avoid me because they don’t want me to bring it up. I don’t even bother to try to wake people up anymore. I have to do for me and my son, and the others..they can find out on their own. Just prep prep prep…

Sixpack; your far from being alone, most people refuse to talk about such things because their scared, like they know somethings coming, but they think if they dont talk about it, then it wont happen. Cats, I have two.

I’m all too painfully aware of it. Nevertheless, the best I’ll be able to handle is Argentina / Cyprus. Best possible time frame… two years from now. Basic subsistence survival maybe MAYBE one year from now if I shove REALLY hard.

While we have time, network. If you have skills, someone with land will make room for you in their group. Do you know people with money, let them hold the mortgage for you. Why pay rent or pay bankers interest? 3% is more than your friends will get in any savings account these days. And you can offer them a place to sleep when tshtf. Lastly, consider crowdfunding with a group of preppers. Check out meetup.com for a group in your area.

But you have to be very careful who you hook up with, Durablefaith, or you could get burned very badly!!! Even family members can turn out to be con artists/psychopaths… just be careful and only hangout with true friends!! Listen to your intuition!! Stay close to real loved ones, spiritual friends, and forget the rest.

I feel exactly the same,
my bet would be that all the ebt cards go suddenly
nsf- triggering shtf.
There was terrifying article a few months ago here
on this site projecting that exact scenario, it’s frickn
scary but very awakening.

Actually most people I talk to, know something is coming, but they aren’t doing anything. I, personally think it will hit overnight, there will be no time to adapt, so you need to be ready always. The people up above talking about nuclear events, there is no way to prep for that. But things such as financial, transportation, or weather breakdowns, we can prep for. I have given a lot of thoughts to prepping and there is no way to be fully prepared. It seems that everything leads to something else. Food, water, and shelter are most important. I have several water tanks and chickens. Chickens lay eggs and you can eat them. But who knows what is coming, but it is coming….

Sally, reading your post, it was word for word, as if I had written it myself. Yes, it is in the air, but trying to explain that sense to others, has been for the most part, a waste of breath. No matter, I no longer try to wake anyone up.

Yep,
Stuff just doesnt feel right, cant really put a finger on it, tried to attribute it to my pessimistic nature but some stuff just isnt right. Someone else in comments to your post hit on the normalcy bias, i have that to deal with in my GF, she just doesnt want anything to rock the boat and doesnt want to talk about it or think about it, sort of frustrating because its going to be a pain in the ass dealing with her freaking out when stuff starts unravelling,

Can we feel it and are we on our own?
I just discussed last night with my darling:
1) how many on this street are sitting here talking about donating diesel to farmers with tractors that run when tshtf
2) how many are discussing all night guards for the gas stations after we devise a way to start getting that gas out from those tanks
3) how many are worried about being away from home in a disaster and planning how to get to each other or get home
I bet….NONE!!!

The world will not let America fail. Because it’s “Too Big to Fail!” Sound familiar? Compromises will be made as well as sacrifices. And you know who will pay the price, the 90% of us. While the 10% float gently on their golden/platinum parachutes.

The thing about “the 10%” is that they earned their positions in society. It’s the American Dream to advance yourself, to further yourself, to climb as high as you can. Every one of us would do the same if the circumstances of our lives were different.
Why do we prep, after all? Isn’t it so that we too can float as gently as we can when the shtf? So why criticize someone just because he’s in a better position than you?
Sorry to criticize you – you’re at least smart enough to be prepping – but the “Occupy” mentality which despises those who made the most of the American Dream is symptomatic of the problems we’re facing now.
We need more of “the 10%”, and the freedom to be “the 10%”.

I don’t think you get it. The people at the top did not get there, and they’re not staying there, because of some utopian idea that they just worked hard to get where they are at. Most of these people are nothing but white collar con men in fancy suits who are jacked in to the crony network of other high dollar con men in DC and on Wall Street. These people have rigged the laws, policies, regulations, and financial system to favor them at the expense of the rest of us. They have literally been strip-mining our land, culture, and futures for their own insatiable greed. If you don’t know how this works, please google “tapeworm economics” because that’s system we are being enslaved by.

Then read Jay Jay and Renaldo ago. If you think what we have in this country has anything to do with merit, you are dealing with a short deck. The people who HAVE it–at the very top–have it because they have the power to make it so. There is no meritocracy, equal opportunity or sense of fellowship at that level. There is a VERY small group with a VERY large appetite. And they couldn’t care less that they are taking food out of your kid’s mouth so they can re-teak the medicine cabinet in their yacht. Doesn’t even enter their mind.

Sorry to burst your bubble – really, I am, I’m not being facetious – but in my opinion you couldn’t be more wrong. I myself am a Nobody- I have no connections or strings to pull, and yet because of hard work I find myself in a great position in life.
I look around myself and I think, “Anyone can do what I’ve done.” So why don’t they? I believe it’s because too many believe the lies of the Left – that the American Dream is dead, or it’s for others, or, as you said, merit and hard work don’t count.
My friend, I am living proof that honorable, dedicated Hard Work bring the rewards you seem to despise others for having.

I did read Reynaldo, and I agree to a point. There are looters out there in the top 10% who don’t deserve to be there. But if that’s supposed to make me believe that SilverSax is wrong, you’ll be disappointed. He/she knocked it out of the park.

*I* was in the top 10% income-wise from 2000-2003 or so and I’ve spent more years than that in the top 20% (I’ve also been in the bottom 25% and know what that’s like). I’m a software developer, and I cofounded a company that did well for a few years. Not once did I ever pay a public official anything. I never ever “strip mined land cultures and futures” nor did I ever know anyone who had or witnessed anyone doing it. I never rigged jack shit, nor did I ever see it happen in the business world. Even my banker, that most dreaded of “parasites”, never ripped me off or otherwise behaved like a minion of Satan. I did work hard though, and I earned everything I got. I provided products nobody else did and I did it well. If anyone thinks that makes me an evil bastard, then I don’t want to know them anyway.

People, don’t attack people for being rich. If you must attack people, attack the ones who are actually doing the things you are mad about…there’s not as many of them as some seem to think. If you’re mad simply because someone is well off, then I’m sorry, but you’re a jackass who needs a major attitude adjustment. There is nothing wrong morally, legally or in any other way with doing well per se and SilverSax is absolutely correct that for the most part those who succeed should be applauded. Where they have achieved their success by hard work (sour-grapes folks’ claims aside that would be the vast majority that I’ve ever known of) they should be admired and emulated.

Yes, I know how the system works. People make good, wise decisions in their lives, go to college and work hard to get good grades, get good jobs and make good decisions there, and move up the ladder.
It’s called capitalism. It used to be how America worked. Now, though, hard-working, intelligent people are blamed for the ills of society by those who made poor decisions in their own lives and didn’t work hard enough to advance when the promotions were handed out.
I know very well how it works. I own two corporations which are doing well and growing. But I had to start small and work hard.
What you need to do is abandon this “Occupy” mentality of “blame the rich man” and “give me everything I want”. Using terms like “enslaved” and “at the expense of the rest of us” is very revealing. If I had to bet, I’d say you sympathized with the “Occupy” protesters who were demanding high-paying jobs and forgiveness of their legitimate debts. I hope you get neither handed to you. Just go to work, put your head down and work hard and you too can find yourself with a golden parachute.
Just don’t expect it to be given to you for free.

You’re using flawed logic. Just because a person can work their way up through hard work does not mean that all of the people who do this are good people. I would wager that to reach the upper echelons of DC and Wall Street you’d pretty much have to be an A-Number-1 scumbag because that sect is not going to let you in otherwise. You seem to have no concept of what “crony capitalism” is and you seem to have no clue that crony capitalists have hijacked our political and financial systems and turned them into their own personal fiefdoms and oligarchies. Why do you suppose that so many of these bankers you seem to be infatuated with get caught committing felony fraud about every week and yet not so much as a misdemeanor indictment is ever handed out? I suppose under your logic, because they worked so hard to get where they’re at they deserve a free pass, or two, or three, or four…

First, I never said that “all the people who do this are good people”.
Second, the discussion wasn’t about DC and Wall Street, it was about bankers and corporations.
Third, I’m well aware of what “crony capitalism” is, but remember, I personally own two corporations which are thriving without any cronyism.
Fourth, “…hijacked our political and financial systems…”? Are you saying that “crony capitalists” run everything? Without any input from our elected representatives?
Fifth, “…personal fiefdoms and oligarchies”? Dude, you’re seriously one paranoid liberal.
Sixth, why do you use terms like “infatuated”? They’re people about whom I have an opinion, that’s all.
Lighten up, Reynaldo. Not everything’s a “vast rightwing conspiracy”.
Here’s my final opinion, then I’ll leave you alone – conservative capitalism served America well for over two hundred years, until the liberal/Marxist/socialist Democrat Party took charge. Conservative, Free Market capitalism was the method God used to make America the wealthiest nation in history.
Now socialism is destroying that.
Congratulations. You “win?”

A Republic in a funny money con game. Commies since FDR and his new deal saw to it that today’s commies ruled. First at the trough are commies, and almost everyone are commies. Root hog, or die, or get yer food stamps and swill.

Yes, I know how the system works. People make good, wise decisions in their lives, go to college and work hard to get good grades, get good jobs and make good decisions there, and move up the ladder.
It’s called capitalism. It used to be how America worked. Now, though, hard-working, intelligent people are blamed for the ills of society by those who made poor decisions in their own lives and didn’t work hard enough to advance when the promotions were handed out.
I know very well how it works. I own two corporations which are doing well and growing. But I had to start small and work hard.
What you need to do is abandon this “Occupy” mentality of “blame the rich man” and “give me everything I want”. Using terms like “enslaved” and “at the expense of the rest of us” is very revealing. If I had to bet, I’d say you sympathized with the “Occupy” protesters who were demanding high-paying jobs and forgiveness of their legitimate debts. I hope you get neither handed to you. Just go to work, put your head down and work hard and you too can find yourself with a golden parachute.
Just don’t expect it to be given to you for free.

Thank you, sir. It would be nice to be applauded by all, but I’m not holding my breath. On a site such as this, where preppers come for info and community, I am a little surprised to find the “Occupiers” in such strong presence.

Five years? I believe more like 18 to 24 months based on the path we’re on. The progressives have power and will not easily let go, even faced with a conservative Reagan like candidate.

For a hundred years these communist ideologues have been chipping away at our freedoms, and they see an end to the American way of life close at hand, most Americans have become lazy and complacent caring more about how many friends they have on facebook. They are lost in a world that only exists in digital form, the real world is as far from them as the moon was to us in 1900.

The shock of what will come will be far too much for them, they will willingly hand over there pitiful lives and their neighbors for thirty minutes of internet and a few scraps of food.

The 3% of us that are prepared are in for a war that I don’t think we can even imagine.

I just got married, and my wife is still a bit apprehensive about my focus on prepping and she gets really nervous reading some of the news sites such as this and other sites I visit daily, but she is grateful that we have enough food and other necessities to last us for a while. Maybe other married couples would disagree with my approach, but I’ve got enough financial resources coming in that I can ramp up prepping under her radar until the day when she’ll see that we’d be screwed if I didn’t do this. Maybe I’m wrong in trying to be sneaky about it, but I’d rather apologize later for doing this behind her back than to freak her out over how bad things could get…and once we’re a lot more prepared for how bad things could get, I think she’ll appreciate what I’m doing. Any others who are dealing with reluctant spouses when it comes to prepping?

I had the same problem with my wife and she’s as conservative as they come. Just had to keep bringing up news stories with her until she got the picture. That was a long time ago and we’ve been prepping for years now, although she still resents the fact that she has to spend money prepping rather than on other things.

Yep, same here, but I can be a lot more open about it. I think hubby thought I was going over the deep edge a year or so ago, but now we make trips together to gather supplies. I think he’s seeing the handwriting on the wall…

My husband and I have been married 11 years, I started about 1 1/2 years ago. He thought I was nuts and telling people about it. I was worried about job loss at the time. He has finally agreed with me and is now onboard. But I wish I had introduced it a little at a time. I finally showed him all the stuff I had acquired and informed him it was time to go camping. There have also been a few times that our food stores saved our butts.
My advice, don’t scare her try and be positive.

OK, maybe I misspoke in saying I was prepping “under the radar.” She absolutely knows I’m a prepper, she just doesn’t know the degree to which I’m prepping, and maybe it’s wrong of me to think this way but as long as it’s not making a dent in our standard of living, I have absolutely no problem adding to the large stash of food, ammo, PMs and other items that she already knows I’ve been buying without letting her know HOW MUCH I’m buying. My prepping is as obvious as it gets, I’ve just been very low-key about the EXTENT of what I’ve been doing and I think she’ll appreciate it later. Just my two cents.

That’s funny I do that from our local Farmer’s Coop. DH says I think we have enough but I usually buy a couple more boxes anyway just to be on the safe side. As for keeping secrets until you can bring the spouse slinging am ok with that at first. Also agree with the advice to keep it positive with her until she is more comfortable. Also talk with her now about OPSEC so she doesn’t discuss your preps with all her friends. Cannot emphasize this enough for new peppers. You can live to regret that later. That is why prepping together is soooo much better. You divide and conquer tasks depending on skills. Brag on your new wife at what she does well that can help with prepping(she’s organized, neat,frugal,good cook, whatever). Good luck.

Everyone has their own unique saturation point. My wife is coming along fine and she can “digest” more now than a couple of years ago. Prepping is an “acquired taste” and ones appetite increases slowly. I keep wanting to preserve more of the vegetables and fruits that we produce, but we can only handle about 50lbs a week at this time. Trying to push past that saturation point just causes strain. I do as much as I can to get prepped but I try to only involve my wife up to her saturation point. Pushing past that causes tempers to flare, which is counter-productive because then things have to get scaled back until egos have had enough time to recover.

My husband, who thinks I’m a little nuts ( right up until I bought him a welder for Christmas, more because it fit prepper plans than I though he really needed it) just wrote a paper for his BSN. His long term personal goal now appears to be self reliance. Not sure when he fully came over to the dark side, but I’m proud he has. I was prepping under the disguise of couponing and fighting inflation. Do whatever works in my opinion, but better to have support.

Just be sneaky about it. If you get caught putting buckets under the sub floor/crawl space, just say its for a earthquake/tornado or what ever bad weather you have in your area. Then change the subject.

I’ve been married 2 years next month. My wife also thought prepping was a waste of time until I explained I’m doing it to protect our family. I pointed out that it didn’t have to be the end of the world to need preps. We have a lot of tornadoes here and last year our house was badly damaged.

I don’t go out and buy large dollars amounts of anything. We buy extra every week at the store. She’s ok with me getting a new gun every 6-8 months and ammo….well I’ve spent a lot on it recently. Bottomline, don’t give up on her and explain its a better hobby than hanging out at the bar or chasing skirts…

Just be greatfull that you have someone in your life weather they are on board or not, my fiance of 7 years was killed a month ago in a tragic farm accident. Now all this “stuff’ just looks like a huge waste of time and money. So enjoy life while you can and stop worrying so much about the future.

Gatheringbird, you are in my prayers. I lost my first wife 3-1/2 years ago at the age of 38 to a seizure.

My first wife and I started prepping (although we didn’t know the term “prepping” yet) early in our marriage when very wise friends advised us to start stocking up on extra food and other necessities as “insurance.” That insurance paid off on numerous occasions, and after my wife died and I took about two months off from work to get my head on straight, I didn’t have much money but I had plenty of food, medicine, etc. That’s the approach I took in introducing my new wife to prepping, and she’s been very receptive, just not realizing yet the degree to which I’ve been prepping.

You think that’s bad. As of a year ago my wife was a Progressive. I don’t know how I did it, but she has seen the light for the most part and has involved herself in our prepping to the point of wanting to buy a place to retreat to out in the sticks.

I feel like you. My wife of 30+ years and my grown kids think I’m crazy and paranoid for trying to prep and like to joke about me becoming like some of the more off the wall preppers shown on the National Geographic series, but I’m not there yet. Weapons, long-term food and gardening supplies at a home in the mountains so far. I guess if/when the shtf I’ll get the last laugh as they all show up at the bug-out house, but I don’t think I’ll feel like laughing then
Stick with your prep…it may save both of you. -Doc

With all due respect to women–with whom I susect we would do better with more in leadership other than Pelosi–I have found almost without exception that preppers have two battles facing them: 1) to prepare and 2) to keep their wife or significant other off the back while they do. It is almost like most of them can’t handle the fear of what it would mean and just push it away, and you with it for being the bearer of bad news.

And the real irony of it is you will be their hero if it does go down and it is only your preps that save them. I am very ambiguous about it…love their presence and warmth but I really resent how totally, 100% out of touch the vast majority of them are.

Ned, I do agree with you. My husband was working this weekend, he’s a RN and works with mostly women. I was shocked as an educated female to find out there are people out there –RNs he works with–who did not know that wing nut pelosi said we had to ” pass the bill to find out what’s in ” obamacare. They are walking around with a serious case of their heads where the sun doesn’t shine, with no clue of current world events. I pray Hillary hits her head real hard again before 2016. These bimbos will vote for her just because she’s a woman.

You bet. Go to your local USGS or USFS office or any dealer and buy the USGS topos for your area, $9 each, for miles in any direction. Also download scans of same. Multiple copies would be a good idea. A hundred bucks should get you 40 miles around you, two sets.

Maps are still necessary even if you know the ground. You might have what, one or two alternate routes to, say, your BOL but if these are compromised (say, a flood or a landslide) or if you can’t remember them off the top of your head because of stress, fatigue, hunger, worry for your family’s immediate safety, etc, finding them on paper (obviously don’t mark your maps if there’s a chance they can be compromised) could help. Remember the grid coordinates of your destination, or even wrie these down. Most people wouldn’t know what something like 11A BC 12345678 would mean after all.

And if your points of interest are outdoors and publicly accessible, like a fishing hole, a spring, a cave or anything like that, it stands to reason someone else knows about it too and might go there as well. So for the love of God, THINK before you engage. Whoever is there might not be a threat to you (at least until you are hostile to them) or be more than ou can chew. Making careful contact or avoidance might be a better solution.

Or what if people innocently stumble up to you? If they shoot first, yeah then opening up makes sense. But if they don’t want any trouble, or picked the same spot to retreat to or bury a stash, wouldn’t starting a fight make no sense? By all means be careful and keep a guard up but making contact could be more beneficial to both parties.

What amazes me is how few people pay attention to bridges on their regular routes…
How many bridges do you go over or under to get from your house to your kids school?
If any one of those was impassible, would you know how to route around it without getting stuck in gridlock?
Then if more than one was out and you were forced to walk, would you use the same route you would have driven or do you have a suitable hiking route?

Prepping has a ‘wide-open’ terminology. Basically, prepping is being prepared for the unknown that can set you back, such as a job loss.

Storing food makes sense for any family. We must eat.

Prepping for an all-out economic collapse and WWIII or even civil unrest and civil war has whole new meaning. That type of prepping is very difficult, especially with family, kids, elderly, parents.

For instance, my brother is a diabetic and needs insulin twice daily. He has done that for 47 years. Without insulin, he is gone. How do you store insulin? Does Ugly leave to a safe-haven knowing that he has left his brother behind?

No.

My attitude is becoming more that if that day comes and the so-called NWO comes after us, then it is time to fight back very hard and do what we can. Yes, 90% of us will perish. But 90% will perish being lone-wolf preppers too. Sooner or later the gang will be there at your doorstep and off you go.

Make your prepping as simple as possible. The more complex, the harder it will be. And do remember your family and friends too. Learn, and keep learning.

We’re all in this together, preppers and non-preppers alike. Have enough food for your family and one more, and enough arms and ammo for your family and two more. Have tools and seeds for a community. Know where it can be obtained when it’s necessary, and be prepared to go and get it.

When it hits the fan, we need to be the go-to people to keep the community functioning.

@Ugly, I don’t mean to be crass, but there is such a thing as propane refrigerators. If any of my family was dependant on insulin, this would have been equal with food & water…… its on our list for comfort.

They do have a (relatively) new insulin that does not require refrigeration. You BOL should really look into that asap. I have several diabetic relatives that are insulin dependant and they travel a lot so thats what they use.

Insulin goes for $73 an ounce. You can harvest it from pigs or cattle. The US manufacturers voluntarily stopped making it that way after some friendly nudging from UNcle SAM. Might be worth looking into for financial independence.
Also, I’m sure a lot of diabetics would rather stop being forced to use frankeninsulin.
Today’s “human”[sic] [franken]insulin made in vats by genetically modified bacteria or yeast cells. The two chains of the insulin molecule are made separately and chemically combined. They are not functional insulin until they are “folded” by a secret procedure known only to big pharmers. After the folding, it is chemically identical to real human insulin, but beforehand it isn’t something anyone will be able to produce, even with extensive chemical knowledge and advanced equipment.

Learn about low ketone diets that were used to treat diabetes before insulin was available. It won’t cure the diabetes but it might keep him alive until supplies are available again. If you have a farm consider buying camels. I know this sounds odd but camel’s milk has insulin in it.

It sure does Merree, thanks for the tip. Here in the Americas, there aren’t many camels to milk, but their American cousin llama’s and alpaca’s have milk that is also a good source of insulin. It seems alpaca purchases done correctly qualify for up to $500,000 in section 179 deductions in the USSA.

One of the best preps is a fall back unmarked bunker. Be it a buried 55g drum to a car trunk with 24h supply for you & immediate family. Of course, more family = larger space. Also, off site cashes. I’m pretty lucky in that I got into prepping when I was about 10 YOA, cold war coupled with NASA being 30mi down the road. I still never feel as though I am anywhere nearly prepped enough.
Standing ready in Daytona

It’s hard when you’re the minority. Don’t forget it! I feel the same way. I can’t stand talking to most people. The intelligence and connection just isn’t there. Our society is on the brink and so dumbed down and people are very concerned about the Royal babies name? Can’t stand it. Its all a bunch of pointless time and money wasting bull****! Coming here brings me home too. 🙂

I’m hoping he is right about the 5 years part, or atleast one year, I’m thinking of driving to Texas from Alaska for this winter.leave in october and come back in may,I’d hate to be stuck down south where I don’t know anyone if something bad happened

Texas to Alaska would be a long walk! Depends too on which part of Texas is your destination. Author, “Joe Nobody” has a good series of novels based post-shtf in the area around Big Bend. I think we may lose El Paso and much south of Corpus Christi- at least temporarily. But now NE Texas is as close to Eden you’re likely to get in this life. Plenty of water, tolerable year round w/o either a/c or heat and stuff grows here. If’n yer headed to this area, we should make a plan ’cause there’s always a need for more rifles on the perimeter.

and for Mac: what a boon it would be for your readers if you could come up with a way for regulars to link up without compromising opsec. Just a thought.

Casey Jr, making contact with anyone by any means compromises your security to some degree. The first rule communications security (and incidentally of electronic warfare) is that all communications can be monitored, intercepted, and if need be decrypted and analyzed.

So whenever you want to make direct contact, you need to take precautions. Seeing how online traffic isn’t the most secure, it should only be used for broad-line planning or coordinating instructions, like a way to make contact. Phone conversations should be kept to a minimum, short and to the point. Save the small talk for the face to face meeting.

If anything, contact by non-electronic means is best. It takes a while, but snail mail works and is pretty secure. Especially if the return address on the envelope is bogus and sent from a different post office, with the actual return address kept in the text of the letter. And use simple but effective countermeasures, like signing across the fold of the envelope, to detect tampering.

I am heading down, and I do realize there are several like minded people in Texas, but Texas has far more people than Alaska, which means shit goes bad and I’m away I’m probebly trapped in an area with a lot of people,worse off than myself(even though Im not going to have what I’m used to having here) where I don’t know my way around well and don’t know anyone.

We’re a web based community. I wish all of us were neighbors. If we all lived in a town or village that would be awesome. I enjoy all of you on here. Thank You Mac Slavo for your generosity. The information, learning and, humor are priceless. It really does have family written all over it. There’s all kinds of ages and personalities on here.

You guys here AREN’T crazy or paranoid, actually you (we)are the smartest and most aware 5%.
Sally, I feel exactly what you’re saying so much.
Hope and pray that the worst doesn’t happen, but…
“I would rather have a gun and NOT need it than to NOT
have a gun when you desperately need it”,
do like the good ole Boy Scouts motto says:
BE PREPARED.

Love it! We’re all “situationaly aware” 😉 that’s the politically correct definition of our kind lol. Unfortunately “extremist” is how the 90% see us. Oh well only the smartest innovate to prevail. God Bless.

They better stay out of New Mexico–last I heard the farmers got together and ran interference for a 70 year old farmer/female there that was being harassed by the feds wanting to cut trees on her land.
Yee-hah–go granny!!

Sixpack you’re not crazy… even my non preper friends are starting to whistle past the grave yard. Smokey has it right… fight as hard as you can now on all fronts. Prep like there is no time left, and start building teams (communities). 12-24 months. Time is short and when the USA falls we will take a large portion of the planets nations with us. It is going to be a very dark time in human history. “we live in interesting times”. Marc Fabor has been right on all the big ones when it comes to financials. Please get ready and have a plan. Buzzfix.. maybe there is something we can do on that one… some very smart person who visits here maybe can work out the logistics of that and still maintain peoples comfort for OPSEC.

Unfortunately there’s no way to accomplish that while upholding total OPSEC. My comment was rather wishful thinking. Besides, the bigger the concentration the harder the task is regarding Internal Affairs etc… Be safe out there and keep it at squad/team level unless the cards are absolutely right. Trust is earned!

Has anyone else seen “Naked and Afraid”? Note to self more bug repellent and sunscreen. Extra shoes too, granted it’s a TV show but it gave me some great tips and reminded me to never drink contaminated water. It also reminds us how important fire is and we need to be able to start one.

I was contemplating selling my twin, earth-toned FN five-seven pistols, each with it’s own Gemtech suppressor and Jarvis custom suppressor barrel, 15 magazines apiece including six 30-rounders and approx. 2000 rounds of blue-tipped 40grain v-max and hollowpoint lead-free 27grain per gun in order to buy gold…….

Then I thought and said….

How much gold can I expect to get for these things after the crash if and when bodies are piling up in the streets like rotting trash, former soccer-moms are giving blow jobs for baby formula, cops won’t even show up to work unless bribed, and even the RINO, golf club swinging, formerly-corporate-employed chumps are seeking to protect what they have left by any means necessary.

The most lucrative hedge against financial collapse I have found, is scorpion farming. If you have enough room in a basement or garage to set up a scorpion ranch, you should do so.
Scorpion venom proteins alleviate rheumatoid arthritis and other ailments, and is in high demand. An ounce of scorpion venom currently sells for $305,000 per ounce! Why not buy some scorpions and start raising them today? Making the effort to wake up every morning and milk your herd of scorpions will bring you the financial freedom you’ve been searching for.

One should live in the moment, love and laugh, be kind to others and expect nothing in return. At the same time, prepare your mind and body for the worst you can possibly imagine. Watch The Road or Book of Eli for a small glimpse of what could be our future. Get right in your heart and mind while there is still time…

When World War III actually comes (shtf) and it comes to our shores, all best made plans will go out the door. What we think we will do now, will change when it actually occurs. The country has never suffered severe internal damage since the civil war and the introduction of limited nuclear strikes within the country either by terrorist or another country will create a period of disbelief and shock that it could happen here. After that passes, then the desire to survive will kick in and our minds will be racing, regretting that extra 1,000 rounds we which we had, or that extra food….etc…
On that day, the economy also tanks and goes belly up.
I think we must prepare for internal issues such as horrible terrorist strikes from present sleeper cells and a possible land invasion and the survivors living in a zoned country as Germany was once divided and zoned.
Many will go to camps, many will die.
It is the NWO.
Just my opinion……..

I appreciate your comment, Be Informed…and glad someone mentioned that Monsanto may have purchased Blackwater…name was changed to XE I think…they are paid mercenaries…remember, just recently they had protests held in so many countries against Monsanto’s “genetically modified seeds, food, etc”..From my reading, there are only 2 countries that are truly communist…N. Korea and Cuba..all the others are a form of fascism…America is a fascist country (fascism is where you are allowed to own property but government keeps control over what you can do with it..it is where corporations and government run the show..and the ruler at the top is….the banks. There is a movie that was released around 2007 that is available for viewing on the internet…PLEASE watch it. It is: FREEDOM TO FASCISM just google it…Aaron Russo was the producer..he was terminally ill with cancer..all that he wanted on his grave was a marker that said…freedom fighter. If you will watch this movie (2 hrs) you will learn about our money system, run by the private banksters…called The Federal Reserve…how it came about…the IRS…it features input from Ron Paul, G. Edward Griffin, Dr. Edwin Vieira…and others..(they are also in the upcoming movie I have mentioned… Molon Labe…producer: James Jaeger.) So many of you mention how other people you know ignore your warnings. Get them to watch this movie… can not Americans simply google this movie’s name, sit back, in comfort..while they can…and learn something? If they are that lazy…so be it. It is excellent…I think the money collapse, as enlightened by Dr. Vieira’s writings at http://www.newswithviews.com , is very real..when you understand what “money” really is..Our government is using debt as money… as Vieira said at the Montana legislature a few years back…”money cannot be debt, and debt cannot be money” (money is an asset..debt is a liability)..Remember, Argentina, and other countries have gone through money collapse..life does go on, but is not very comfortable..We do not have to suffer the worst of financial collapse..it will be painful..but there is an answer..and that is to get back to sound money and honest banking..and the states of America have that power, to ease away from the Federal Reserve…find out what is going on in your own state..remember, North Dakota is the only state with a state bank, and if my memory serves me correctly, around a year or so ago, there was a meeting held there so that all the other states could learn about their state bank. If you watch, Freedom to Fascism…you will “get” it.. (It was titled, America: Freedom to Fascism…but was shortened to just..freedomtofascism.com

Also: Police: Informant Was Present At Fero’s Bar And Grill Robbery That Left 5 People Dead For $170

Det. Mark Crider said that a fourth man, Demarea Harris, was present at the time of the robbery and the subsequent murders, but was working undercover as an informant for the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives on an unrelated investigation. While Harris has not been charged in the Fero’s incident, defense attorneys raised the question of his credibility during the hearing.

Ned, I do agree with you. My husband was working this weekend, he’s a RN and works with mostly women. I was shocked as an educated female to find out there are people out there –RNs he works with–who did not know that wing nut pelosi said we had to ” pass the bill to find out what’s in ” obamacare. They are walking around with a serious case of their heads where the sun doesn’t shine, with no clue of current world events. I pray Hillary hits her head real hard again before 2016. These bimbos will vote for her just because she’s a woman.

Ned, I do agree with you. My husband was working this weekend, he’s a RN and works with mostly women. I was shocked as an educated female to find out there are people out there –RNs he works with–who did not know that wing nut pelosi said we had to ” pass the bill to find out what’s in ” obamacare. They are walking around with a serious case of their heads where the sun doesn’t shine, with no clue of current world events. I pray Hillary hits her head real hard again before 2016. These bimbos will vote for her just because she’s a woman.

Ned, I do agree with you. My husband was working this weekend, he’s a RN and works with mostly women. I was shocked as an educated female to find out there are people out there –RNs he works with–who did not know that wing nut pelosi said we had to ” pass the bill to find out what’s in ” obamacare. They are walking around with a serious case of their heads where the sun doesn’t shine, with no clue of current world events. I pray Hillary hits her head real hard again before 2016. These bimbos will vote for her just because she’s a woman.

Ned, I do agree with you. My husband was working this weekend, he’s a RN and works with mostly women. I was shocked as an educated female to find out there are people out there –RNs he works with–who did not know that wing nut pelosi said we had to ” pass the bill to find out what’s in ” obamacare. They are walking around with a serious case of their heads where the sun doesn’t shine, with no clue of current world events. I pray Hillary hits her head real hard again before 2016. These bimbos will vote for her just because she’s a woman.

Ned, I do agree with you. My husband was working this weekend, he’s a RN and works with mostly women. I was shocked as an educated female to find out there are people out there –RNs he works with–who did not know that wing nut pelosi said we had to ” pass the bill to find out what’s in ” obamacare. They are walking around with a serious case of their heads where the sun doesn’t shine, with no clue of current world events. I pray Hillary hits her head real hard again before 2016. These bimbos will vote for her just because she’s a woman.

Trouble is that it is instinct to fight, flight or freeze. I’m opting for a girly combination of fighting (mostly the education system so my child doesn’t believe the kool-aid), and flight aka relocation. Analysis paralysis keeps many people in freeze mode, even after they’ve become situationally aware.

Cognitive disconnaisance takes care of the rest.

I’m also convinced that the educational system is designed to keep people from ever reaching emotional adulthood, as i keep bumping into individuals in their 30’s, 40’s and 50’s who think the gubberment “will take care of it” in the same way Mama did. This trait drives me nuts! As a result teaching my own child to take full responsibility for the consequences of his own actions, good & bad has become a major priority of his raising for me.

Relocating from large cities is often mentioned by preppers but it’s a real lot of work to find a new place hundreds of miles away, sell up, buy new, sort out kids schools, doctors, and a new way of obtaining an honest income. Right now you still need fiat coming in monthly to cover the bills and taxes!

The incidental costs are not minimal either, as I’m currently discovering. It’s also been very hard work finding a genuine community of the old fashioned sort to move to. I’m more than happy to be good neighbour etc, but oh dear lord have a lot of places changed since I were a lass!

The real game changer is repentance and prayer. But since americans are prideful and arrogant the judgement that is already upon us will stand. Physical preparedness is practical and needful, however, (spiritual) preparedness is essential. Hide under the shadow of the Almighty, and He will protect you – not maybe He will. His strength always trumps anything made with human hands. The hour is very late folks, get right with the Lord Jesus Christ and you (will) be saved, from eternal death, and from the worldly powers that be!

Long ago the worldly PTB conquered the mainstream churches. How is the Pope and his babbling minions flying around the world any different than the President and his bureaucratting minions? Both reap where they do not sow and profit from the subjugation of millions. Both live in parasitic palaces built on the bones of innocents and pour anointing oil on the jackboots of our cartel oppressors and sing the praises of our cruel savage oligarchs.
Repent from your ignorance and acquire the wisdom inherent in nature as our Deist framers did. Read Thomas Paine’s Age of Reason and get off your knees, big religion is yet another big cartel.

Fallout consists of dust particles that have been coated with radioactive
by-products from atomic explosions. This occurs when the nuclear or atomic
blast is a ground rather than air-burst (air-burst meaning that the fireball
is far enough from the earth’s surface that there is no ground material
uptake into the high temperature portion of the mushroom cloud). In an air-
burst the bomb products condensate into such very small particles that they are
aloft for such a long time that they are mostly non-radioactive by the time
they come down, typically months or years. The fission process gives off
hundreds of different radioactive elements and isotopes. Also, a certian
portion of the fission mass does not fission. The fussion portion of nuclear
bombs is clean and gives off only helium, the atomic bomb trigger (fission)
which starts the nuclear bomb (fussion) is the portion of the bomb that leaves
radioactive by-products.
These by-products can be classified by their characteristics. One
characteristic is half-life. The half-life is the length of time it takes for
an element to give off one-half of its total radioactivity. This would also be
the length of time required for a given amount to change to one-half the
radioactive level, in other words if something was giving off radiation that
would yield 3 Rads/hours, after one half-life it would give off 1.5 Rads/hour.
An unstable isotope only emits radioactivity when one atom decays to
another isotope or element (which may or not be stable, stable being non-
radioactive). Therefore the portions of the element that are not in the
process of decaying are not giving off any radioactivity. If you have
“X” number of atoms of a radioactive element, “X/2” of those atoms will give
off their radioactivity in the half-life period and become a different element
or isotope. If an element has a half-life of 1 day, a given amount of it will
give off 1/2 of its total radiation during the 1st day, 1/4 during the second
day, 1/8 the 3rd day, 1/16th the 4th, 1/32 the 5th, 1/64 the 6th, 1/128th the
7th, et cetra. If you have a short half-life like Iodine 131 of 8, days most
of the radioactivity (99+%) will be emitted in two months. In a long half-
life element like plutonium 239 with a 24,400 year half-life, 1,000,000 atoms
would in 24,400 years give of 1/2 of their radioactivity leaving 500,000 atoms
of plutonium 239 at the end of those 24,400 years. 500,000 decays over 24,400
years equals approx. 21 decays per one year.
Another characteristic is the type of radiation given off, Alpha, Beta, or
Gamma radiation. Neutron radiation is only given off by the actual blast
itself and is not given off by the fallout itself. Only neutron radiation
can MAKE something that is not radioactive become radioactive. This is why
fallout can not cause something (like food inside a can) to become radioactive.
Alpha, beta, and gamma radiation can NOT make anything become radioactive.
Alpha radiation (helium nucleus, 2 protrons and 2 neutrons), like from
plutonium, can be shielded with one layer of Cellophane or newspaper or several
inches of air. Beta radiation (an electron) can be shielded by a layer of
drywall, or several feet of air. Gamma radiation is electromagnetic radiation.
Neutron radiation is a neutron and is about twice as hard to stop as Gamma.
Gamma and neutron are harder to stop, you need several feet of dirt or
concrete to absorb them. See below for specifics for stopping Gamma radiation.
One factor that most people don’t realize about fallout is how fast it
decays. Fallout follows the t-1.2 law which states that for every sevenfold
increase in time after detonation there is a tenfold drop in radiation output.
Example, a reading of X level of radioactivity at Y hours after detonation
would indicate a level of radioactivity of .1X at 7Y hours after detonation.
This is accurate for 2,500 hours (14 weeks) following the explosion,
thereafter the doserate is lower than t-1.2 would predict. Example, if a
dose rate of 100 REM/hr was found at 1 hour after detonation(this assumes all
significant fallout from the bomb has fallen, therefore starting with the
seven hour point is probably more realistic) would be 10 REM/hr at 7 hours,
1 REM/hr at 49 hours(2 days), .1 REM/hr at 343 hours(2 weeks), .01 REM/hr at
2401 hours (14 weeks). A “survival safe” dose of radiation (this being defined
as no short term effects or disability) is 3 to 12 Rads/day. This dose rate of
3-12 Rads/day can only be taken to an accumulated dose of 150-200 rads if done
day after day. This would occur (assume 6 Rads/day) in this example at 150
hours for 24 hour exposure, or at 49 hours for a 6 hours per day outside of
shelter. Note though that since the level of activity is decreasing the time
spent outside every day would increase. If you increase the radiation by a
factor of 10 for another example would be where you would have 1,000 Rem/hr at
1 hr, 100 Rem/hr at 7 hrs., 1 Rem/hr at 343 hrs., .1 Rem/hr at 2401 hrs. The 24
hour exposure would be at 1,000 hours(41 days) and 6 hour work day outside of
shelter at 300 hours(12 days).
For various levels of contamination a “no short term effects” dose of 6 Rads
per day would be something like this: (for 80 col. printout)(measurements at
boundries of the oval shaped pattern)

For shelter from Gamma radiation the standard rule of thumb is 150 pounds of
mass per square foot of cross section of shelter wall yields a PF, protection
factor, of 40. This means if you had two shelters on a flat contaminated field
with one having walls of one layer of cellophane and the other of walls and
ceiling of something that had for its thickness 150 lbs/sq. ft.( note this
would be a thickness of 2.5″ of lead, 4″ of steel, 12″ of concrete, 18″ of
soil, 30″ of water, 200′ of air) you would recieve 1/40th the dose in the 150
lb/sq.ft. walled shelter. This effect can be multiplied. If the sq. ft. cross
section was 300 lbs. that would be 1/40th of 1/40th or 1/1,600th of the
unprotected dose. Take for example a dose rate starting at 100 Rem/hr at 1
hr.,10Rem/hr at 7 hrs.,1 Rem/hr at 49 hours, etc. If exposure started at 1
hour the total dose would be 240 R in 1 day, 310 R in 1 week, 350 R in 4 weeks,
390 R in 15 weeks. The same in a PF 40 shelter would be 6 R in 1 day, 7.7 R
in 1 week, 8.7 R in 4 weeks. The difference would be 5% fatalities-most
others suffering from nausea and taking about 1 month to recover without the
protection versus 0% fatalities-0% sickness with protection of PF40 in this
case.
Another example with a dose rate starting at 1,000 Rem/hr at 1 hr., 100
Rem/hr at 7 hrs., 10 Rem/hr at 49 hours, etc. If exposure started at 1 hour the
total dose would be 2,400 R in 1 day, 3,100 R in 1 week, 3,500 R in 4 weeks,
3,900 R in 15 weeks. This in a 40 PF shelter would be 60 R in 1 day, 77 R in a
week, 87 R in 4 weeks. In a 1,600 PF shelter this would be 1.5 R in 1 day,
about 2 R in 2 weeks, about 2.5 R in 15 weeks. The differences here would be –
no protection = 100% fatalities in several hours – PF 40 = 0% fatalities, 25%
suffer nausea(at the most) with total recovery in 7 days, – PF 1600 no effects.
Please note that protection factor increases as a multiple. If 150 lbs/ft.
sq. = a PF of 40(1/40th or 2.5%), 300 lbs/ft sq. = a PF of 1,600(1/1,600th or
0.0625%), and 450 lbs/ft. sq. = a PF of 64,000(1/64,000th or 0.0015625%)

I know I have not been around very much but have been very busy. I have missed a lot I see.

It is my perspective that the SHTF already. I and a bunch of people who I am associated with agree. I don’t understand how people can not see it. Conditions in this cuntry have never been worse. Not even in the so called great depression.

How many people must really be unemployed?

How many people must you see receiving aid from the government?

Hw many empty homes does it take?

How little can you buy at the store for so much money?

How many cities must actualy file for bankruptcy?

How many more goverment agencies to regulate you must there be?

How much more can you be spied upon?

The list could go on for pages but I am sure you get my point. The collapse is here, it is now and everyone needs to realize that what you are seeing is going to get worse. Much worse. You all may say you are prepping but in all reality you know that this is now just what we call living. The new norm.

Shelter in – Sheler out. But just realize it has already started. There is no more just one more inch. It is way past that.

Hey BigB….I agree with you totally!! I know that is why JOG took off to such an “isolated” place…..have you heard anything from him? I did get a tiny bit of info from him (while he was on his journey) through another source…..everyone keep safe!! CC

There will be nothing hilarious about it. Grow up. I don’t really have sympathy for these adults that use EBT and refuse to work – it’s the children. They and their brilliant parents will likely die. When this happens, it will be horrible beyond your wildest dreams.

For those interested, more precursor quakes. The one just a half a hour ago is very specific to where it has lead to major earthquakes in the past. This one seems to aim right at the area from Taiwan to the Celebes Sea, Santa Cruz Islands, Northern Argentina, Java to Nicobar Islands, the entire Aleutian Island chain to southern Alaska. These areas are very close to each other in each regional area. This is uncommon. Three of these areas are in that global arc from the 7.3 South Sandwich Islands quake about 10 days ago. It shows that something is still gearing up.

@ BigB. I would worry about your northern neighbors right now. None of the recent outer plate boundary earthquakes have had any history of major earthquakes afterwards. The closest one to this was the one south of the Drake Passage about a week about. When the Drake Passage gets a 4.5+ earthquakes most of the time earthquakes follow in California from north to south. I fear for the people that are affected by the nazca plate as this plate has had dozens of quakes since April on the western side of it and still nothing. I think that a mega quake is building down there, the range from 8.4 to low 9 range. I would not be surprised from all that activity that a super maga earthquake occurred in the mid 9 range. OR worse some of the near to true supervolcanoes let loose down in that area. Very rare to have such a dead period of lack of major earthquakes in one of the most seismic regions of the world.

The article left out the pole shift and climate change. the planet is undergoing end of an age clatyclismic earth changes. these clatyclismic events will eventually compromise all of mans infrastructure. Bridges will collapse, dams Will burst, Enen the nuclear powerplants will be damaged. So we have at least three things to worry about. WWIII, economic collapse, Great clatyclismic earth & climate disasters. Its one of those things that if the left one dont get you the right one will. Im pretty shure I will eventually be forced to leave my home. I burn it to the ground when I leave. just as well I I dont someone else will. If i know its gone I wont be tempted to return. Ill take what my pack amimals can carry. Ive made Cashes of useful things in remote places where only a donkey and man on foot can access. Propane is a useful item. it makes a smokeless fire. It never goes stale like gas & diesel. It can power engine,s and refrigeration . It can also be used to make a terrriffic bomb. Ive filled as many 100 pound bottles as I could. A Burro can easily carry a 100 pound Lp bottle. The sad fact is those with health problems that require prescription drugs will die. Heck most of the healthy will die. This is very disturbing and its something that we want to avoid addressing. I dont want any collapse. I would be content to draw the pittance of social security and play hobby farm the remainder of my days. I have this uneasy feeling that sumthin just aint a settin right.

Many great warriors have been conquered by fear alone. Echoing what km said previously, I feel that mental/spiritual preparation can’t be stressed enough. No matter your belief system, finding inner peace, strength & showing love to those around you will be important in the days ahead. Remember: the most they can take from us is our physical lives, which exist in this illusory, material world.

I have sensed in my spirit the air grows foul…the Six Seals ARE open….what happens next and how quick it happens will shock us all…the timing of how events unfold thereafter is a mystery. But, today is the day you worried about yesterday – dont let a fallen world steal your joy and peace (bought and paid already if you’d like to freely partake, you are welcome). Most importantly:
“Seek the Lord while He may be found, Call upon Him while He is near. (Isaiah 55:6 NKJV)”

Prudence is a virtue, and with limited resources you can still hunker-down if needed. I live in a very large metro area and getting out of Dodge is not a reality – the roads will be clogged. We all can’t head for the hills – leave that up to the one-percenters:

“And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” (Revelation 6:15-17 NKJV)”

Hey guys, I know I have been absent for awhile but I still try to read this blog everyday….

A good number of us have our preps purchased and safely tucked away (or are in the process). Having these preps can give us a sense of security. Recently I had an event that woke me up to something to consider. My area was hit by a flashflood and my preps were under 30 inches of scuzzy water.

Talk about a curve ball…I learned a few good lessons along the way. Thankfully I did not loose any of my dehydrated #10 & 2.5 cans. Lots of label damage though.

If you want you can read about my experience and some of the stuff I learned over at JWR Survivalblog. Link to follow.

Nothing like getting a good dose of Doom and Gloom in the morning to set the day. A couple cups of Java and a few smokes and I am wired for anything.
As Mac has stated that if War comes to our shore, many will be unprepared. Of course many will die. How many? Depends upon the resources they have put away and if they can defend against what ever comes their way.
War itself has many faces. Civil war, Race war, Nuclear War, Social Class War. Each type creates its own
stage as to what destruction occurs. In the case of nuclear war, the devastation is immediate while a civil war could gradually escalate. Then the added possibility is how will the government react. Helpful or aggressive.
Maybe not at all.
In the past, our nation has been subjected to partial disruption of water, power, communication and other 21 century luxury but imagine a whole nation at ounce. We have endured fires, tornado’s, floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, blizzards and volcanic eruptions. Mother Nature has surely waged war on us.
In each event we have pulled together and rebuilt. Why do we always wait till the damage is done to do something good? My only thought is that Mother Nature is not human and cannot be held accountable or be brought to some form of justice because she can’t be.
For the life of me, I can’t fathom why we do so well against unexpected natural disasters and we can’t do a damn thing against man made ones. Have we not identified so many problems and the solutions are within our hands. Still we race toward some kind of our own destruction.

I have saxophone reeds too. But I don’t have a saxophone. I bought an antique clarinet years ago, and it had a bag full of sax reeds. If you really want to, you can learn to make your own reeds. Google “how to make saxophone reeds.”

I’m an avid prepper and so is my wife who is handicapped.
The other day I found her crying and asked what was wrong? She said she was afraid because she can’t walk well and if SHTF hit then she would just drag me down and I wouldn’t leave her behind so we would both wind up in a FEMA camp.

I hugged her and reassured her that it wasn’t like that. I explained that she has many talents that would be need such as first aid medical training and holistic medicine.

It was then that I realized that I hadn’t really ever explained that in order to survive, you need several people with a lot of different talents. I explained that not everyone will be able to plow a garden, and that was a given. The idea is to prepare as much as we can and learn as much as we can so when we meet up with other Preppers, we will have skills that we can offer to add value to any group. Preparing is not just about collecting and storing food and ammunition. It’s also about learning how to do things to help others survive as well. No one will be able to survive alone, and it will be those that band together and pool their skills that will ultimately survive. She now understands how she can contribute and feels much more comfortable about prepping.

My point is that just because you may have a member of your family that is handicapped, it doesn’t mean you would need to leave them behind. ( please take the time to explain this to them.)You see the way I see it, when the SHTF…Knowledge will be just as important as bullets if not more so.

😉 this put a very large smile on my face, I have a mentally disabled brother. If we don’t have meds for him he may have to be locked up. But if we can get the anti-psychotics he needs then I know we will never get lost. He remembers where everything is it’s amazing really.
Medical knowledge is a massive plus, she doesn’t need to walk well for that.

C4 now this is gonna be kinda mean. While your post gives the touchy feely warm fuzzy feelings. Your not being realistic. It thatt group who you band together with who will become your worst night mare. They will stab ou in the back the first chance they get.No group when under stress will remain civil. Your grossly under estimating the magitude of what the future holds. This is gonna make the 1930 look like prosperity. starvation will be the rule. Cannibalism will be rampant. 90% will perish within the first year. The elderly, handicapped and unfit will need lots of luck to beat the odds. We are going to be skyrocketed back to a early 1800,s lifestyle. Think back to the mountian men. They went alone or with one pardner with meager provisions into enemy territory. The native americans where a communal group of physically fit like minded extremely proficient hunters & warriors.They killed on a daily basis to make a living! and the goverment with a few soldiers exterminated or rounded them all up and imprisoned them on reseverations. Even gerinimo who had a inpenetrable stronghold starved out & gave up and spent his last years in a 8×10 prison cell. Sitting bull was killed by members of his own tribe. Most of us myself included will die a untimely death. Im not willing to trust any group. You group will be easily rounded up and sent to a fema camp. I dont even trust my family members. My wife & I are lone wolfs.Im of the opinion Our chances are just as good as yours. Ill try to save my grandchildren. I really hope im wrong but I think not.

In a way, its good she brought this topic up, C-4. Its an opportunity now to visualize any possible scenarios that could be problems and try to find solutions now, while you can…for example, sleds/horses, or whatever. Also, a lot of times people can make themselves stronger just by doing a little exercise every day. Your story was very touching! God is with us… don’t worry. : )

I’ll be honest folks. As much as I am prepping for whatever may come, I still feel ill-prepared. I had an experience a year and a half ago that also made me realize I need to work on my stamina. I drove to a show in town, and in the vast sectioned parking lot, I “misplaced” my truck. After the show, I about went bananas not being able to find my truck, assuming it was stolen. One of the parking lot attendants troubleshot my dilemma by asking me when I arrived at the place, and with that info determined where I had parked. The truck was in a secluded secion of parking behind a building. I felt dumb after that, but importantly I realized that I was not handling the situation with the calmest of nerves. It was a wakeup call to see how I could better prepare my mind for the coming mess.

It helps when parking in a large lot if you look back at your vehicle occasionally as you walk to your destination. That way you will have your bearings already when you try to get back. Also counting rows or noting features on a building near your row will help.

@ Kulafarmer. I was watching storm Flossie and I think you probably did pretty well. How is the corn crop? You could see that this storm just didn’t have the right climatic patters to do anything but fizz out. I am glad you didn’t get the high winds you were expecting.

All of these are available on ebay for cheap! Build your own surveillance system from all 12 volt powered components and run them from a small battery. I have done this and it works excellent! Also look at 12 volt motion detectors. Dakota alert is very good but kinda pricey, if you cant afford them just make your own from cheaper chinese parts on ebay. The 2 watt 2.4 ghz. wireless video trensmitter/ reciever works great for me at 1/2 mile away. Put your components in a plastic ammo can (camera, transmitter, battery, charge controller, remote switch, 5 watt solar panel, etc.) and you have a portable, weatherproof video surveillance system. You can also add a 12 volt cig lighter socket to it to power other 12 volt items. Get a usb adapter too it is handy. You can get a 7 inch color monitor for the reciever for about 35 bux on ebay too. Ok now get on it! lol

The system I built is all inclusive and cost me around 600 bucks but is very extensive. It is contained in 2 50cal. plastic cans.
Can #1, 5 watt instapark solar panel with 12 volt plug attached (instapark panel is the most compact and fits in a 50cal can), 10 amp solar charge controller, 4 way 12 volt outlet with usb, 2 7.5ah sealed lead acid batteries, 175 watt dc to ac inverter that plugs into the 12 volt outlet, 12 volt AA and AAA battery charger with 8 of each rechargeable batteries, mini mag aa flashlight, 3 12 volt power cords with standard 12 volt plugs, video reciever unit with antenna, 4 inch color video monitor, 110 volt 1 amp battery charger for charging batteries from 110, battery powered am/fm/shortwave radio, wireless remote controlled switch (to turn the camera and transmitter on and off in the 2nd box, spare alkaline batteries, small cctv camera with 50 ft. cable (power and video), various sma and video adapters, on/off switch to turn off power to the unit(never have the solar connected unless the controller is connected first!), through the box sma antenna connection (so you can have the antenna connected outside the box with the lid closed), extention antenna cable, 2 channel dvr recorder with motion sensor (uses 12 volts and sd card), various video cables and adapters, 12volt outlets mounted through the box with weatherproof covers (1 for the solar panel connection 2 for power), small screwdrivers for mounting cameras and connections.
BOX #2
12 ah sealed lead acid battery, 5 watt solar panel, 10 amp charge controller, 4 way 12 volt outlet with usb, video transmitter, remote wireless switch (operated from other box), cctv 12 volt camera mounted through side, spare weatherproof cctv camera, 3 12volt power cords, various video cables including 50 ft. video/power cable, 110 volt 1 amp charger, 12 volt outlets (one for solar panel 2 for power with weatherproof covers), through the side antenna connection, 4 inch color monitor, small screwdrivers and screws.
Boxes painted flat camo. This system works 1/2 mile away without to many obstacles. It will power most small items (radios, cell phones, scanners, lights,12 volt battery charging, etc.). Also powers a simplex repeater for radio comms (with 10 watt solar panel). All the items are available on ebay for good prices. Use your imagination there is no one else that makes such a system so your left to your own to create what you want. All of this fits in its own can I recommend you pad the side where the face of the solar panel rests. I love making this kind os stuff lol.

money comes and money goes but the Lord Jesus Christ said I will never leave thee nor forsake thee. Therefore lay not up treasures upon earth that doth corrupt, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven that do not corrupt.

Hell On Earth Is Coming, With A Vengeance.
PREPARE!!!
Rat, Dog, Cat, grass, bark, twigs what ever you can find will be on your menu, IF you are NOT Prepared.
The World has Never seen or been through what we are about to experience. This ride is going to get very bumpy, strap yourself in and hang on.

If I had a large sum of money, I would buy some land with a little creek running through it, with good flow and head so as to make a micro-hydro station for electricity during the winter months when sun is low and a couple solar panels for summer when lots of sunshine. Next, I would like to buy a small uhaul (this trucking company had a small truck for sale recently!) so I could leave quickly in case of emergency.

As far as home, you can build a cobb house for practically nothing. ($1,000 to $30,000). And if you get book on permaculture, you can have abundance of food.

all you really need is land and you got it made… and good friends nearby.

I love this site. Started prepping 3 1/2 years ago (reading Ranting Andy Hoffman-he is a great guy). Just a little at a time, and after 3 years have built up a years supply or more. I am the only one, no one else believes or gives a shit. I don’t talk about it to other people or other family members. They think I am crazy. Just wish I could get my husband off his lazy ass. It is so hard on me (Deg Disk Dz) but I take care of the garden, chickens (27, I love them lol), prepping. Bitching doesn’t help by the way. Just wish I had more help. Love this site too. Been reading since the beginning of SHTFPlan. Good Luck to All

Bad Back: you might try prayer and reading your scriptures for inspiration and strength. Ask God to fill you with his Holy Spirit and give you peace. Only God/Jesus Christ can convert and convict your husband, pray in faith and believe in HIM to do it. He is in the miracle business. I am asking Jesus Christ to intercede with the father to heal your back…all things work to good for them that love HIM. You CAN do all things through Christ Jesus who strengthens you…God Bless.

I love this site. Started prepping 3 1/2 years ago (reading Ranting Andy Hoffman-he is a great guy). Just a little at a time, and after 3 years have built up a years supply or more. I am the only one, no one else believes or gives a shit. I don’t talk about it to other people or other family members. They think I am crazy. Just wish I could get my husband off his lazy ass. It is so hard on me (Deg Disk Dz) but I take care of the garden, chickens (27, I love them lol), prepping. Bitching doesn’t help by the way. Just wish I had more help. Love this site too. Been reading since the beginning of SHTFPlan. Good Luck to All

I really hate my parents generation…they inherited a few mil.
Zero talk of putting the grand kids though school…or even helping.
They blow their money on vacations and RVs.

Between the wife and I we make about $165K.
So we do OK. We’ll put the kids through college.
But no talk of setting up a trust fund for the grand kids like it was done for them.

The grandkids feel their distance and could give a shit less.
They are too busy traveling and rarely see their grand kids.
These fucks will have a lonely death and will not get flowers on their graves.

Most likely I’ll cry more for my aging dog when he passes than for my own folks.
Funny how money has polluted their souls and they have no time or interest for their own grand children. ROT IN HELL FUCKERS.

First post,
I’ve never been here before,just discovered this site.The frustration of trying to get people to pay attention is very trying.Personally I know I will probably be among the first to go,and I’m OK with that.My prepping efforts are for my grandchildren,so I am working for them.
Here are a few things I’m working on.My dialisis bags are like really big IV bags.They come full of sterile dyalisate.I have figured out a way to rinse and refill them with fresh water by using a water balloon filler nozzle. The tubing and connectors are also sterile.I will be happy to share this method with anyone intrested.Also would be a nice little shower in a bag.Another cool thing is the bags those bags come in work great in the vac sealer.may have to be cut down and refolded but it works just dandy.I don’t know about storing food in them, probably fine for packaged items, bags of beans,rice etc.Dry towels and socks,you get the idea
Some of the empty IV type bags are going into my med kit,I think they will work fine as air casts for sprains etc.slightly blown up a couple should work for and ankle,well enough to keep moving.I hope some of this info is a blessing to someone out there.

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