May 4, 2016

[Teams] know fans are more vulnerable than ever these days, for a variety of reasons: modern ballparks have them sitting closer to the field than ever; pitchers throw harder than ever, which results in harder-hit foul balls; modern, thin-handle bats break more easily sending them flying into the stands; and iPhones at the ballpark, which distract fans from games, are a way of life.

So the people who want to pay attention must look through netting so that the people who want to look at iPhones can have the freedom not to pay attention? And the teams can't even decide for themselves and their fans which group to favor — it ought to be a top-down rule dictated by the MLB?

44 comments:

In "the olden days" I would have felt confident in saying that, "the fans don't want to look through netting." But now, with all the victimology baked in to society, maybe they do. Maybe fans should all wear bike helmets too.

It's not just people not paying attention, though--if you have slow reaction times or are seated somewhere where you can't move away easily, you can still get clonked with a ball. But netting protection and the likelihood of getting hit have to be weighed against the nets blocking your view.

I was at a game with a friend in the upper tier behind home plate, and a foul ball was hit that came right at us. We'd never seen a ball come that way before, so it looked odd--like "where is that thing going?" before realizing it was coming right at us. My friend flapped his arms comically as the ball smacked his seat right between his legs (two inches higher and he would have taken it right in the groin).

"So the people who want to pay attention must look through netting so that the people who want to look at iPhones can have the freedom not to pay attention?"

Very few of the former and the teams encourage the latter. So many during game promos tied to smartphone use. Going to be very hard to argue that you aren't responsible when a fan gets killed while texting their number for some team giveaway.

BTW, I have tickets right behind the plate at Wrigley field and of course watch through the screen. You don't even notice it.

I remember as a small child at a minor league park sitting in the right field bleachers, a line drive hit right at me and me being frozen watching it come at me. A glove appeared right before my face and caught it. Thus I am here to spam the comment threads with my blather.

My understanding of going to a baseball game is that you're supposed to be aware all the time of the potential for a ball (or bat) to fly at you. It's like learning to look before crossing the street. Basic living-in-the-world competence. If you don't want to participate in that environment, you can stay home and watch the screen that is the TV. To put a net in front of the people who want the real-world experience is so perverse. And what about the fun of thinking you might catch a foul ball? The very chance that you could is now a reason to set it up so you can't.

I knew that the Red Sox had installed protective netting at Fenway over the winter so I was surprised that Harper didn't mention them in his article. Here's a point of clarification. The Red Sox (and many other teams) have added netting from the home plate side of each dugout. Harper is advocating that netting run from the far side of each dugout, allowing himself the following critique:

For most teams that meant a modest widening of their netting covering seats behind the plate. Only the Rangers, Twins, Nationals and Royals decided to be more proactive by adding the aforementioned dugout-to-dugout netting.

Teams will be encouraged to add netting, or some sort of protective barrier, to shield fans from balls and bats that sometimes go into the stands in all field-level seats between the near ends of both dugouts and within 70 feet of home plate.

"Ann Althouse said...My understanding of going to a baseball game is that you're supposed to be aware all the time of the potential for a ball (or bat) to fly at you. It's like learning to look before crossing the street. Basic living-in-the-world competence. If you don't want to participate in that environment, you can stay home and watch the screen that is the TV. To put a net in front of the people who want the real-world experience is so perverse. And what about the fun of thinking you might catch a foul ball? The very chance that you could is now a reason to set it up so you can't."

The screens will only stop line drives, foul pops will go up and over. The liners are not the ones that you want to see come your way. And some seats are so close that even if you are aware, and played baseball, you will not have time to react. Watch this:

"Ann Althouse said...My understanding of going to a baseball game is that you're supposed to be aware all the time of the potential for a ball (or bat) to fly at you."

Aware all the time is impossible in a space with tens of thousands of fans. People walk in front of you, vendors are in the way, you have to get up to let someone out, you're passing money down the isle to a vendor, passing the food or beer back...

" I Have Misplaced My Pants said...What about minor league fields that are much smaller and fans are far, far closer to the action?

For that matter, high school fields?

Little League?

The backyard?

Just put a disclaimer on the back of people's tickets and be done with it. If you want no risk at all, sit in your house and hope it isn't hit by a stray jet engine."

What idiocy. I'm not sure minor league parks have fans sitting closer, but they have to make the same changes. Most little league and high school fields put fans and players behind chain link fences. But neither of these venues have the balls coming off the bat like you'll find at the major league level.

EVERY MLB team has observed the netting recommendation (see table here). So the conceit that MLB has to force the recommendation is immaterial. And, as I've shown above, the idea that netting to the near-side of the dugout is less safe than netting to the far-side of the dugout is totally dependent on the ballpark.

I recalled this and looked it up:"Richie Ashburn once struck a spectator twice in the same at bat with foul balls, the second time as she was being carried off on a stretcher.

The event happened on August 17, 1957 during a game between the Philadelphia Phillies and the New York Giants. The spectator was Alice Roth. Roth was the wife of Earl Roth who was an editor for Philadelphia’s Bulletin newspaper, which Ashburn himself would later write for, along with the Philadelphia Daily News. During the at bat, Ashburn hit a foul ball that struck Roth squarely in the face, breaking her nose. The game was then paused as medics came in to tend to Roth. As they were carrying her away on a stretcher, play was resumed and Ashburn fouled off the first pitch thrown to him. This foul subsequently struck Roth as she was being carried off by the medics.

From that game on, Roth chose to sit in the left field bleachers, far away from any potential foul balls. Roth and Ashburn became friends after that and Roth’s son eventually got to be a batboy for the Phillies."

What idiocy. I'm not sure minor league parks have fans sitting closer, but they have to make the same changes. Most little league and high school fields put fans and players behind chain link fences. But neither of these venues have the balls coming off the bat like you'll find at the major league level.

Ok, non-idiot, tell us exactly what level of risk you feel is appropriate for everyone else.

. . . Blogger I Have Misplaced My Pants said... "OK, non-idiot, tell us exactly what level of risk you feel is appropriate for everyone else."

You could probably do a somewhat messy but still quantitative measure of this by assessing the ticket prices associated with the seats more likely to have foul balls hit to them and comparing those to the the seats less likely to have foul balls hit to them.

Pretty sure that you'd find that the riskier seats would be more expensive than the less risky seats - implying that most don't price in the risk of being injured by a ball to be significant. Lot's of noise in that calc, but it's probably directionally correct.

I know that's the risk assessment that I do; pay more for a riskier seat.

Aware all the time is impossible in a space with tens of thousands of fans. People walk in front of you, vendors are in the way, you have to get up to let someone out, you're passing money down the isle to a vendor, passing the food or beer back...

Sorry, CG, but I'm with Althouse on this. Why the hell go to a ballgame if you're not going to frigging pay attention? If I'm close enough to where a ball can come my way, I bring my glove. And if people are in your way, they're going to get hit with the ball before you anyway.

I have no sympathy. Balls are hit out of the field every game. If people don't know that by now, they should stay home and watch on TV.

Watched that video of Japan's way of dealing with the threat!-- up until Bryant Gumbel was talking about 'stewards/guards/whatever [who] receive special training to deal with incoming foul balls' and the video displayed a fellow with a hardhat, ducking. Was quite amusing.

Aware all the time is impossible in a space with tens of thousands of fans. People walk in front of you, vendors are in the way, you have to get up to let someone out, you're passing money down the isle to a vendor, passing the food or beer back...

Exactly. Pitchers aren't even "aware" all of the time - how often do they get clocked? It's a reasonable but unrealistic to expect more from fans.

"I Callahan said...Sorry, CG, but I'm with Althouse on this. Why the hell go to a ballgame if you're not going to frigging pay attention? If I'm close enough to where a ball can come my way, I bring my glove. And if people are in your way, they're going to get hit with the ball before you anyway."

More idiocy. We not talking about foul pops, we are talking about liners. Major league liners. In the area they are talking about netting that mitt isn't going to help. And the people in your way, facing their first screaming liner, have a habit of ducking.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I Have Misplaced My Pants said...What idiocy. I'm not sure minor league parks have fans sitting closer, but they have to make the same changes. Most little league and high school fields put fans and players behind chain link fences. But neither of these venues have the balls coming off the bat like you'll find at the major league level.

Ok, non-idiot, tell us exactly what level of risk you feel is appropriate for everyone else.

I'm not sure what you are asking. But I think it makes sense that MLB teams mitigate as much risk as reasonably possible. If I were them I would.

Coincidentally, I just finished Netflixing a documentary last night called "Knuckleballers." It follows the careers of two great recent knuckleballers, R.A. Dickey and Tim Wakefield. Great, great documentary for lovers of the game.

"Jason said...Coincidentally, I just finished Netflixing a documentary last night called "Knuckleballers." It follows the careers of two great recent knuckleballers, R.A. Dickey and Tim Wakefield. Great, great documentary for lovers of the game."

It is called assumption of risk. If you go to a game, then you have freely and voluntarily agreed to assume the risk of being hit by a ball. If it happens, it is on you. If you do not want to take that risk, then stay home. That too is your choice. No one forces you to go to the games.

Was at an A's game last week behind the netting near the on-deck circle. You forget the net is there because humans have evolved to filter out noise and focus on signal. You also reflexively flinch at the balls drilled back toward you. We all watched in horror as the fat end and split neck of a broken bat was hurled into the stands over the low net above the home dugout. Good luck catching that

Folks - we literally live in a world where some states are trying to pass laws against pedestrians who are crossing streets while watching their phones.

In the old days - common sense prevailed (as Anne says)...but in MANY college towns, motorists are plagued with students just walking blindly into traffic pedestrian crossings while NEVER EVER looking left or right to see if cars are coming.

Entitlement? Phone Addiction? Lack of Common Sense Parenting?

This kind of moron behavior is alive and well folks and yes - we will have nets to obscure views at baseball games. Many nets. Ticket sales will drop - why not watch games on TV/stream?

Somtimes I worry that our era is simply plagued with the lack of #CommonSense101 in so many ways.