They are 3-0 with the Savior throwing to scrubs. Shanahan can actually coach the team to wins with this guy behind center. Give them an offseason to get healthy and another draft filled with high picks and the NFC West is about to become a whole lot more competitive.

As a niners fan Id like to say they should. But there are a ton of holes. The Rams are the 2017 version of the the Niners in 2012. All they needed was a good head coach. Jeff Fisher built that team and that is it. Just like Dingleberry. Harbaugh gets zero credit for building the niners.

rlkats wrote:As a niners fan Id like to say they should. But there are a ton of holes. The Rams are the 2017 version of the the Niners in 2012. All they needed was a good head coach. Jeff Fisher built that team and that is it. Just like Dingleberry. Harbaugh gets zero credit for building the niners.

I hope your statement is true but Id be happy with an 8-8 season.

Well...with how our cap situation sits right now, and our inability to keep most of our “star players” around next year as a result, unfortunately I must succumb to the likely reality that we will be competing with the Cardinals for 3rd place in the NFCW, while the Niners are competing against the Rams for the division crown for next year and probably beyond.

Hopefully our “transition/rebuild” doesn’t take as long as yours apparently did. What is upsetting is that the Niners got significantly better from the acquisition of Jimmy alone, and the team still has a huge amount of cap space to build around him to make the Niners even better than they look right now.

rlkats wrote:As a niners fan Id like to say they should. But there are a ton of holes. The Rams are the 2017 version of the the Niners in 2012. All they needed was a good head coach. Jeff Fisher built that team and that is it. Just like Dingleberry. Harbaugh gets zero credit for building the niners.

I hope your statement is true but Id be happy with an 8-8 season.

Yeah, the Rams this year to the 9ers in 2012 is a really good comp.

This 9ers team has nowhere near the talent to make a major leap next year.

While it's true they've won three in a row, they've done so by an average 4 point margin against two other bottom feeding teams (the Bears, and Texans w/out a QB) and probably one of the most overrated teams this year (Titans).

Even if none of this year's rookies show an ounce of improvement and can just stay steady this will have been a very, very solid "building blocks" draft for them -- not a team-changing world-beater draft like the Saints just had, but a very solid one -- but once you eliminate all of the silly fanspeak about "promise" I don't think they have a SINGLE position group in which you could safely say they're even above average going into next year (I guess you could say RB because of Hyde, but he's a FA).*

*For 9ers fans who won't like this statement, by position groups I mean whole groups, so like, they're definitely above average at the tackle spots, but not safely above average across the whole O-line because their interior line play is a disaster. Garcon, Goodwin and Taylor might be right around average too, Buckner and Foster are both individually very good, Reid is average and Colbert and Spoon have upside, etc., etc.

rlkats wrote:As a niners fan Id like to say they should. But there are a ton of holes. The Rams are the 2017 version of the the Niners in 2012. All they needed was a good head coach. Jeff Fisher built that team and that is it. Just like Dingleberry. Harbaugh gets zero credit for building the niners.

I hope your statement is true but Id be happy with an 8-8 season.

Yeah, the Rams this year to the 9ers in 2012 is a really good comp.

This 9ers team has nowhere near the talent to make a major leap next year.

While it's true they've won three in a row, they've done so by an average 4 point margin against two other bottom feeding teams (the Bears, and Texans w/out a QB) and probably one of the most overrated teams this year (Titans).

Even if none of this year's rookies show an ounce of improvement and can just stay steady this will have been a very, very solid "building blocks" draft for them -- not a team-changing world-beater draft like the Saints just had, but a very solid one -- but once you eliminate all of the silly fanspeak about "promise" I don't think they have a SINGLE position group in which you could safely say they're even above average going into next year (I guess you could say RB because of Hyde, but he's a FA).*

*For 9ers fans who won't like this statement, by position groups I mean whole groups, so like, they're definitely above average at the tackle spots, but not safely above average across the whole O-line because their interior line play is a disaster. Garcon, Goodwin and Taylor might be right around average too, Buckner and Foster are both individually very good, Reid is average and Colbert and Spoon have upside, etc., etc.

rlkats wrote:As a niners fan Id like to say they should. But there are a ton of holes. The Rams are the 2017 version of the the Niners in 2012. All they needed was a good head coach. Jeff Fisher built that team and that is it. Just like Dingleberry. Harbaugh gets zero credit for building the niners.

I hope your statement is true but Id be happy with an 8-8 season.

Yeah, the Rams this year to the 9ers in 2012 is a really good comp.

This 9ers team has nowhere near the talent to make a major leap next year.

While it's true they've won three in a row, they've done so by an average 4 point margin against two other bottom feeding teams (the Bears, and Texans w/out a QB) and probably one of the most overrated teams this year (Titans).

Even if none of this year's rookies show an ounce of improvement and can just stay steady this will have been a very, very solid "building blocks" draft for them -- not a team-changing world-beater draft like the Saints just had, but a very solid one -- but once you eliminate all of the silly fanspeak about "promise" I don't think they have a SINGLE position group in which you could safely say they're even above average going into next year (I guess you could say RB because of Hyde, but he's a FA).*

*For 9ers fans who won't like this statement, by position groups I mean whole groups, so like, they're definitely above average at the tackle spots, but not safely above average across the whole O-line because their interior line play is a disaster. Garcon, Goodwin and Taylor might be right around average too, Buckner and Foster are both individually very good, Reid is average and Colbert and Spoon have upside, etc., etc.

Kicker.

Quarterback.

Fair.

He passes the ever loving hell out of the eye test but JGQ is still just three games in, and against crap teams too. All to say that I’d be surprised if he ends up being a below average league QB, but I’m not ready to anoint him yet.

Well a patchwork Niners team just beat the Rams so there is a strong argument that they will challenge them for the division crown next year, even though the Rams rested their star players.

People have forgotten that the Niners has their already sub-par roster even further destroyed by injuries all season long. If they beat talented playoff teams in their 5-0 run to end the season with their crappy roster, imagine what they will do next year when all their players are healthy and/or upgraded with better talent around JimmyG?

AF_BASS_MAN wrote:Well a patchwork Niners team just beat the Rams so there is a strong argument that they will challenge them for the division crown next year, even though the Rams rested their star players.

People have forgotten that the Niners has their already sub-par roster even further destroyed by injuries all season long. If they beat talented playoff teams in their 5-0 run to end the season with their crappy roster, imagine what they will do next year when all their players are healthy and/or upgraded with better talent around JimmyG?

Also worth noting....

The 49ers lost 5 games between week 2 and 6 by a COMBINED 12 points.

You are what your record says you are so not arguing that they were better than their record, but I am saying they were close and the addition of Jimmy made all the difference.

AF_BASS_MAN wrote:Well a patchwork Niners team just beat the Rams so there is a strong argument that they will challenge them for the division crown next year, even though the Rams rested their star players.

People have forgotten that the Niners has their already sub-par roster even further destroyed by injuries all season long. If they beat talented playoff teams in their 5-0 run to end the season with their crappy roster, imagine what they will do next year when all their players are healthy and/or upgraded with better talent around JimmyG?

I love the optimism, but I do not count the rams game at ALL. They were playing scrubs and Jimmy had his worst day as a Niner this season. If he had done this against the starting D and O its a waaaaaaaaay different game sorry to say.

Now I do expect some ups and downs but I also expect a better season next year, but my Niners will still miss the playoffs. They just have way to many holes.

AF_BASS_MAN wrote:Well a patchwork Niners team just beat the Rams so there is a strong argument that they will challenge them for the division crown next year, even though the Rams rested their star players.

People have forgotten that the Niners has their already sub-par roster even further destroyed by injuries all season long. If they beat talented playoff teams in their 5-0 run to end the season with their crappy roster, imagine what they will do next year when all their players are healthy and/or upgraded with better talent around JimmyG?

I love the optimism, but I do not count the rams game at ALL. They were playing scrubs and Jimmy had his worst day as a Niner this season. If he had done this against the starting D and O its a waaaaaaaaay different game sorry to say.

Now I do expect some ups and downs but I also expect a better season next year, but my Niners will still miss the playoffs. They just have way to many holes.

Even if the Rams hadn’t rested their starters, that game would still not have had an accurate representation of how the Niners stacked up against the Rams, as most of the Niner’s actual starters were resting too...on IR.

I had forgotten until a week ago, that you guys have had Pierre Garçon on IR most the season and that JimmyG hasn’t played with him yet.

AF_BASS_MAN wrote:Well a patchwork Niners team just beat the Rams so there is a strong argument that they will challenge them for the division crown next year, even though the Rams rested their star players.

People have forgotten that the Niners has their already sub-par roster even further destroyed by injuries all season long. If they beat talented playoff teams in their 5-0 run to end the season with their crappy roster, imagine what they will do next year when all their players are healthy and/or upgraded with better talent around JimmyG?

I love the optimism, but I do not count the rams game at ALL. They were playing scrubs and Jimmy had his worst day as a Niner this season. If he had done this against the starting D and O its a waaaaaaaaay different game sorry to say.

Now I do expect some ups and downs but I also expect a better season next year, but my Niners will still miss the playoffs. They just have way to many holes.

Even if the Rams hadn’t rested their starters, that game would still not have had an accurate representation of how the Niners stacked up against the Rams, as most of the Niner’s actual starters were resting too...on IR.

I had forgotten until a week ago, that you guys have had Pierre Garçon on IR most the season and that JimmyG hasn’t played with him yet.

Ya true. I forget that the Niners have the most players on IR this year. Crazy to see what they did the last 7 games with a good QB.

What the 49ers did was due to guys taking over and making changes to the players to instill a urgency and Hunger that had been missing due to past success and riding on the Harbaugh coat tails, York hit gold with Lynch as a no nonsense guy who knows football and is aggressive. We will have to see if they continue the acquisitions that continue to push them higher. Grappallo is a Matty Ice type QB that makes good decisions and is only going to get better I think with opportunity.

Saying that, we are suffering some of the hangover as well from past glory, we need that chip and hunger again here and I am not just talking players.

The nice thing about offensive lineman is that they're individual players that make RBs, WRs, and QBs all look better than they are.

For my money on the offensive side of the ball, I'm much less interested in skill position players (beyond QB) than I am securing the interior line (and even having a succession plan in place for Staley).

Furthering this stance is that JGQ is the real golden nugget in all of this, and although sack rates dramatically dropped when he came in because of what he's good at and what Beathard's bad at, he was still really getting smacked around due to the 9ers deficiencies on offensive line. Part of that was the turnstile life that Beadles lives which won't be a problem next year with Brown coming back, but Fusco, Kilgore, and Tomlinson aren't going to cut it either.

The nice thing about offensive lineman is that they're individual players that make RBs, WRs, and QBs all look better than they are.

For my money on the offensive side of the ball, I'm much less interested in skill position players (beyond QB) than I am securing the interior line (and even having a succession plan in place for Staley).

Furthering this stance is that JGQ is the real golden nugget in all of this, and although sack rates dramatically dropped when he came in because of what he's good at and what Beathard's bad at, he was still really getting smacked around due to the 9ers deficiencies on offensive line. Part of that was the turnstile life that Beadles lives which won't be a problem next year with Brown coming back, but Fusco, Kilgore, and Tomlinson aren't going to cut it either.

I'd love to see Saquon in SF, but I agree that interior line and pass rusher are the teams biggest needs. That interior line keeps Jimmy healthy though so I'd say that priority #1.

As for the personnel there, I'm interested to see what Garnett looks like next year after reshaping his body all season. I also would like to see them keep Tomlinson for depth.

I'd love to see Saquon in SF, but I agree that interior line and pass rusher are the teams biggest needs. That interior line keeps Jimmy healthy though so I'd say that priority #1.

As for the personnel there, I'm interested to see what Garnett looks like next year after reshaping his body all season. I also would like to see them keep Tomlinson for depth.[/quote]

100% agreed on both Garnett and Tomlinson.

And I'm seriously not opposed to targeting Barkley (if he's there) with that pick.

In my ideal scenario they're primarily attacking O-Line through free agency where they're spending real money on a center and a guard, and then bringing Fusco back and letting Garnett, Fusco, and Tomlinson compete for the second starting guard spot (Fusco as backup center still).

Offensive line is just a mess to evaluate at the college level these days, so I'd much rather they take the free-agency-for-assurances and late-in-the-draft-for-diamonds-in-the-rough approach to that position group, and hope they stumble onto another Trent Brown type while relying on average-to-above-average lineman with less upside in FA.

1) He's 31 and they may be looking for younger guys...although that didn't stop them with Garcon. Then again, Garcon had history with Kyle.

2) The Niners like their young TEs in Kittle and Garett, Kittle especially. That guy really started to look good late. Then again, none of those guys provide a 6'8" redzone target and the redzone was one of their weaknesses.

There are a lot of graphics online that talk about how Jimmy "only" threw 7 TDs this season, but he moved that team better than any offense in the NFL over the last 5 weeks. They just couldn't punch it in because they didn't really have a redzone presence. Their top targets were 5'9" and 5'8" respectively. Thats also why Gould set a record by kicking 15 field goals in 3 weeks. They kept moving the ball down the field, but couldn't punch it in.

Marvin49 wrote:There are a lot of graphics online that talk about how Jimmy "only" threw 7 TDs this season, but he moved that team better than any offense in the NFL over the last 5 weeks. They just couldn't punch it in because they didn't really have a redzone presence. Their top targets were 5'9" and 5'8" respectively. Thats also why Gould set a record by kicking 15 field goals in 3 weeks. They kept moving the ball down the field, but couldn't punch it in.

In order of importance I'd say that was:

(1) small sample size and random variance (the general rule that over time teams that are good between the 20s are also good inside the 20s).

(2) The lack of interior line push and overall lack of quality in the run game (which really does matter more when you're inside the 10)

(3) The lack of a big redzone target for the old back-corner fade into the endzone play. Ya know, the play that we as football fans love to hate whenever our team calls it and it doesn't work, but then clamor for when we insist our team needs a big guy for the red zone.