@mr-r34 wrote:Who gives a shit, who does he think he is? Is he bigger than the freaking club to walk out like that.

Like what?

He wasn't apart of the squad so left. It's not like he HAD to be there. Plus, we have no clue what's happening behind the scenes. Agger wasn't spoken to for half the season ffs.

El Cujo wrote:

@Red Alert wrote:He only has limitations because we're putting him in a role that's uncommon to him.

Let him play his natural game like he does for France, and maybe, just maybe, he might win you guys over.

Putting him in a role that's uncommon to him? He's never played as a central defender before? Hmmm....your agenda against Lovren is beyond transparent. Lovren has looked better for Liverpool this year than Sakho has (not sure what that says given Lovren has been shaky himself), and he was much better than Sakho in the EPL last year.

I don't care how good a player is internationally if he can't replicate that form at club level, and if he's a one dimensional player that can't adapt to more than one system then he doesn't belong anyway. Flexible players make for strong teams. Talented players can play in any system. Sakho is acting entitled to start when he's done nothing to earn the spot.

Yes, because ALL defenders all have the same role.

My agenda against Lovren is well known, he's shit.

I have no clue what you see in Lovren, but to say he's shown more than Sakho is laughable.

Sakho SHOULD be entitled to start considering he's the best defender at the club.

"Talented players can play any system" is with all honesty, bullshit.

We have a lot of "flexible" players at the club right now, we don't exactly have a strong team. lmao

@sportsczy wrote:You mentioned that he hadn't established himself at club level and only on NT... well that's not true. He was very established at PSG and fell out of favor to accommodate Silva. He would never have gotten into NT if his club performances weren't very good, especially at the CB position in France.

I said if he can't replicate that form at club level. Also he has never played at club level as well as he does for the NT even in France.

That's fine that you think that, but he's been our best defender this season, and he was much better than Sakho last season. Not to mention that he's coming into a new squad with new tactics and playing decently. He's not the ticking time bomb that Skrtel or Sakho have been on the pitch. Though even Skrtel has been more reliable than Sakho when playing this season which just reinforces why he was dropped.

I have no clue what you see in Lovren, but to say he's shown more than Sakho is laughable.

Ok coach. I guess Sakho was dropped just for fun. No, Sakho has had his chances to play and for Liverpool he has never been good. You can have your favourites but you can't force them down our throats just because they are not playing well.

Sakho SHOULD be entitled to start considering he's the best defender at the club.

Obviously not.

"Talented players can play any system" is with all honesty, bullshit.

Alright. We should change our entire system to accommodate Sakho. I'm sure that will work out better in the end.

We have a lot of "flexible" players at the club right now, we don't exactly have a strong team. lmao

Sure we do. You think because of a few stumbles at the beginning of the year that we don't have a good team? In truth outside of a bit of bad luck we should have beaten Everton and deserved a better result against Villa. Same goes for Basel here...we are creating more scoring chances and right now they're just not going in. At some point, with the quality of players we have, they will start going in and our team will become more familiar and confident in one another. Keep going with your doom and gloom nonsense knee-jerk reactions though.

At Liverpool, he's never gotten a chance to settle and play regularly. There is an adaptation period when you change teams, let alone leagues (EPL is vastly different from Ligue 1). If Liverpool is going to judge him without giving him a true chance to settle in, then i don't understand why he was bought.

He's had plenty of chance to play consistently and settle last season. The problem is that when you're a team challenging for the top or at least for the CL in the most competitive league in the world you can't afford to keep giving someone chances when they continually play poorly. Obviously in our case there's an exception in that we have to play SOMEONE on defence, which means that the odd man our is going to be whoever is the worst of the bunch and that has been Sakho. He's young and still has time to improve, but right now he's not shown enough quality to lock down a consistent starting spot.

_________________Walk on with hope in your heart, and you'll never walk alone.

Sakho was dropped because a dud cost 20m and actually needs to play now.

Skrtel is more reliable than Lovren, and a lot less reliable than Sakho, so the sooner we get a defender to accomodate Sakho the better. We're going to concede over 40 goals this season with Lovren as the heart of the defence.

Where have I said we should change our entire system to accomodate Sakho? FFS do you even read what you write?

Do you think the current system is working? Because it's clearly not. The current system is reliant on Luis Suarez and Daniel Sturridge to bail us out of games. One was sold, and the other is injury prone. We bought a whole load of players and we're trying to adapt to THEM right now rather than let them adapt to us. And it's costing us.

There is no bad luck. We haven't performed in any of our games so far. Not one.

How exactly is it knee jerk if I was calling this LAST SEASON when Suarez was here?

Arguing with you is like arguing with a wall. You spew the same garbage over and over again. Did you ever even watch Sakho in France? He was dropped because his level of play was not good, and never got his place back again. Interestingly enough he was dropped by Liverpool because his level of play is not good (to further drive this home, PSG preferred Bisevac and Alex over him ), and it's up to him to try and win that place back. You make it sound like we're playing Lovren because of money, as though he cost a lot more than Sakho did.

Anyway, I don't think you actually watch Liverpool play so I'm done with this discussion.

_________________Walk on with hope in your heart, and you'll never walk alone.

Cause you're talking shit. And you got told upon because you were talking shit. He got dropped from PSG because of Thiago Silva, not because of his performances. Every Tom Dick and Harry that actually watched PSG/knows anything about Ligue 1 knows that. But let's make up facts to help get your point across.

He got dropped at Liverpool because there's clearly something between Sakho and Rodgers. Just like how there was something about Agger behind the scenes.

We are playing Lovren because of money. And he did cost a lot more. He's not good. For all his "defensive contributions" to Southampton, he helped concede the same amount of goals. And Southampton actually had 2 midfielders in Wanyama and Schneileden that helped out defensively. Their defence was actually much worse than ours last season, but apparently according to your delusional thinking and your whoscored sources, Dejan was deemed the man to fix our defence. He hasn't, and if anything we're worst off from it. He's not even better than Skrtel/Agger, and never has been.

But yeah, let's just say I don't "actually watch Liverpool play" or any football in general. Let's go with that.

The funny thing is that you are just showing your ignorance and proving that you didn't watch Sakho in France. He was dropped as a starter before Silva even got to PSG. Like I said before, PSG were starting Alex and Bisevac over him and he was stripped of his captaincy -- that speaks for itself. But you can keep making up your own facts. They added Silva because of Sakho's lack of form, and he clearly couldn't deal with the added pressure to get back to form.

He got dropped at Liverpool because he's played like shit for Liverpool. Period. You can keep going on and on to try and further your agenda and your doom and gloom. Blah blah.

Lovren cost 5m euro more than Sakho. Do you even do simple research before you talk? He helped concede the same amount of goals on a mid table team lol. On top of that Liverpool conceded 50 goals last season and Southampton conceded 46!! and they didn't have near the attacking presence we did to help with their defence (but it was WAY WORSE than ours). Just keep this stuff rollin' though RA I couldn't lead you to a clue if I were Sherlock Holmes.

Last edited by El Cujo on Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:21 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________Walk on with hope in your heart, and you'll never walk alone.

If you honestly believe that, go to talk to anyone that watches Ligue 1 on the regular.

They conceded 46. We conceded 51. He brought "so much defensive steel to their defence" and only concede 5 more. With TWO defensive midfielders helping out the load. Brilliant, brilliant defender. And he cost 5m POUNDS more, not euros. Nice research skills buddy.

Anyway, I'm over it. Go back to reading whoscored/goal.com articles.

_________________Red is the colour of extremes. It's the color of passionate love, seduction, violence, danger, anger, and adventure. The colour red is the color of energy, passion and action. This colour is a warm and positive color associated with our most physical needs and our will to survive.Red represents power and courage. The colour red is the basis of the traditional red power tie or red suit in the business, and the red carpet for celebrities and VIPs. Red's association with courage and bravery makes it a colour that is used often in national flags, on shields, and in achievement patches. Liverpool. Is. Red.

Ah yes it was pounds. So much more expensive. I mean, 15m pounds for Sakho was cheap that's why it's so easy to bench him. Has nothing to do with his performances it's totally a personal thing.

So it goes from Southampton's defence was MUCH WORSE than ours yet they concede less goals on a much worse team. Interesting hypothesis please tell me more sir.

Alright, so Sakho is take out of the starting 11, stripped of his captaincy and publicly criticized by Ancelotti before Silva even gets there but that's the reason he left. I know people that watch Ligue 1 and they are much more reliable than you. You don't have a clue what you are talking about (what else is new?).

_________________Walk on with hope in your heart, and you'll never walk alone.

Where am I bashing Sakho? I'm pointing out facts. He was dropped from the team because he wasn't playing well. How about Sakho passing multiple times right to the other team in his own half? Or instead of clearing out with a header he heads it right back out into the middle which causes a goal.

I'm not saying our other defenders have been perfect, but Sakho has been the worst of the bunch.

Also Lovren's challenge shouldn't have been a penalty.

_________________Walk on with hope in your heart, and you'll never walk alone.

Again, it's hard for any CB, Sakho or not, to play well if they don't get a run of games personally and as a pair with another CB. You can't play 1-2 games a month and look good. It's not possible for any position in football tbh.

El Cujo wrote:Where am I bashing Sakho? I'm pointing out facts. He was dropped from the team because he wasn't playing well. How about Sakho passing multiple times right to the other team in his own half? Or instead of clearing out with a header he heads it right back out into the middle which causes a goal.

I'm not saying our other defenders have been perfect, but Sakho has been the worst of the bunch.

Thing is though... Sakho has been a rock at NT. Heck, he muzzled Costa completely last month when France played Spain. Took him completely out of the game. So i have a hard time believing that he's not a good CB.

When every single CB looks bad and all of them have been good either currently with NT or very recently with club.... then there's something else that's wrong. The players get some of the blame too of course. But you can't have the ENTIRE CB crew play below their normal levels.

I have no agenda against Sakho or any player on our team. I want nothing more than our players to play to their best, work well together, and win us games. I'm going by the facts though and I'm not going to say that Rodgers should be playing Sakho regardless of his form because 'he's the best' when he hasn't been.

When was the last time Sakho had a good performance for Liverpool? I would love to see him bring his NT form to Anfield, but right now he's not doing that and when he's been on the field he's been an absolute liability and not just this season.

@sportsczy wrote:Thing is though... Sakho has been a rock at NT. Heck, he muzzled Costa completely last month when France played Spain. Took him completely out of the game. So i have a hard time believing that he's not a good CB.

When every single CB looks bad and all of them have been good either currently with NT or very recently with club.... then there's something else that's wrong. The players get some of the blame too of course. But you can't have the ENTIRE CB crew play below their normal levels.

I agree. I think there's a problem in one sense that they are not familiar with eachother, also in that they don't have a real leader at the back in terms of a goalkeeper who can communicate with his back line (and because of it, they don't have confidence back there) and then there's also lack of form and individual mistakes combined with those two things. Add on top of it that Liverpool is expected to play a hard pressing, attack minded game and the burden on the defence grows. Finally, two inexperienced fullbacks (and even when healthy our starting fullbacks are far from defensive stalwarts) thrown into the mix.

It's a tough situation that will just take time, familiarity and confidence to sort out.

_________________Walk on with hope in your heart, and you'll never walk alone.

Well if all that is true, then Rogers needs to play a more conservative scheme, let the defense sort itself out and then get more aggressive once you're defensively compact enough... That's what Carlo did at Madrid after we sucked donkey defensively last season to start. In fact, he replaced attack minded midfielders with defensive ones (Isco and Illara go benched for Alonso and Khedira; when Khedira went down, Di Maria got his chance).

I think that Rodgers is still learning to adapt to life after Suarez. Having him and Sturridge both healthy made up for a lot of defensive miscues last year. Now that one is gone and the other is injured he's still tweaking and adapting to needing to play that more conservative style (of course, it's tough when you also have Allen and Can injured because they provide steel and tenacity to the midfield to help shield the back-line).

It will come with time I'm confident. The only defender I think shouldn't last much longer here is Skrtel. Sakho hopefully finds his way as well as Lovren.

_________________Walk on with hope in your heart, and you'll never walk alone.

I'll say it again... Lovren wasn't just bad in his years at Lyon. He was pathetic. One of the worse CBs in Ligue 1 every year he was there. One season at Southampton doesn't make up for 3 years of just crap. I seriously doubt his quality... he doesn't look much different from the player i remember. He is completely reliant on his fullback, CB partner and midfield helping him out. He cannot compensate for anyone's deficiencies: That's where he got killed at Lyon. When Toulalan and Cris left, he got exposed. He needed to cover more ground and he couldn't. There's a very limited radius where Lovren is able to be effective.

He's got 150 apps for PSG and 24 for France - was a starter in the World Cup - and is only about to turn 25. Yet a shit Lovren and almost a 34-year-old Kolo Toure are preferred to him. He was on the bench against Basel, so he's fit.

_________________Red is the colour of extremes. It's the color of passionate love, seduction, violence, danger, anger, and adventure. The colour red is the color of energy, passion and action. This colour is a warm and positive color associated with our most physical needs and our will to survive.Red represents power and courage. The colour red is the basis of the traditional red power tie or red suit in the business, and the red carpet for celebrities and VIPs. Red's association with courage and bravery makes it a colour that is used often in national flags, on shields, and in achievement patches. Liverpool. Is. Red.