Quote: --- Original message by: killzone64i had pretty much quit halo ce due to being burnt out. this news got me to log back in with everyone and celebrate. this community was a big part of my teen years, helped me though some hard times.

Well since the MCC version of Halo 2 is a modified version of the Vista port, I highly doubt there would be any major changes to the map structure or the tools. At best, we would get the full HEK without 99% of the function branches being nulled out before compilation.

As far as content creation goes in regards to Hamsters comment... don't see your logic or point? To actually state that there are no content creators in the CE or H2V community who could create good content for the other engine variations is just pressumption. I've been squeezing in quality content into H2V for the better part of 10 years...and the one thing that stops half my maps is the engines inability to handle larger poly count objects and extreme detail.

I would kill to have an HEK for Reach. In fact, Reach is really the only item in the MCC that I even want. Y'all can keep CE, 2, 3 and 4...give me Reach!

I only wish they'd release the games on GoG. All I really want is Halo 3 to complete the first trilogy of games, I kind of got my wish but in a bitter sweat kind of way since it's not on the platform I want.

So they confirm there won't be modding support at release, confirm that it's not a focus, and state their priority lies in Security / Anti-Cheating.

So there won't be a modkit at launch, there's no confirmation on if one will ever be made, and they care more about preventing modding then supporting it. But hey, at least their good "friends" at ElDewrito (that they forced to shutdown) are going to somehow provide them with information they don't already know about their game. Because the reverse engineering ElDewrito did on the Halo Online client is applicable to releasing an already made editing kit for 5 different versions of the game engine, even though ElDewrito has never touched those editing kits. ElDewrito will be able to provide Microsoft with tons of information about their games and editing tools that they never knew about, ushering in a new era of Halo. Clearly that's not just a namedrop.

He can't even use the phrase Official Mod Support. He had to use quotes.

Quote: --- Original message by: The KingxThey just announced that the game will be available for Windows 7

I really, really want to be wrong. I would much rather be wrong and everyone remind me of it than to be right. But I know what Microsoft does, and releasing Halo for PC with an unlocked editing kit is NOT what Microsoft does.

The way the story goes, the only reason we got Halo Custom Edition is because Gearbox Studios promised their fans an editing kit. But Microsoft wanted the game to fit on a single CD, and neither Bungie nor Microsoft would agree to support an editing kit release due to the hassle. So Gearbox studios ported another version of the 1.04 engine, upgraded the netcode and improved shader rendering times, and released it as a free add-on alongside the editing kit, outside of any support from Microsoft or Bungie. They also hosted this download on their own servers, which in 2004 is a bigger deal than it is today.

They didn't get additional compensation from Microsoft or Bungie for this version, outside of any increase to sales. We owe Gearbox a huge thank you. Hopefully we can say the same about Microsoft soon, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

I have to formally side with DeadHamster on this one. They clearly state that Security/Stability is their primary focus and that development tools "are options they are looking at". Nothing about that statement indicates it will happen.

As said before, Microsoft ultimately does not want mod tools to end up in our hands. From a logistic and financial standpoint, what would Microsoft gain from allowing a full unlocked HEK to be released with MCC? It hurts their franchise and in the end, would render any future Halo PC useless, as you would quite literally give the "best" of the community, a way to introduce future content right inside of MCC. This would make the profit of future titles very slim. Indeed it would please the community, but it would also hurt it as well.

Halo and HEK are and can be, a double edged sword for the PC Community. Microsoft also has a proven track record or retconning anything that doesn't fit their agenda. Whether it's backpedaling on another developers promise or their own internal studio.

Quote: --- Original message by: TwinreaperI have to formally side with DeadHamster on this one. They clearly state that Security/Stability is their primary focus and that development tools "are options they are looking at". Nothing about that statement indicates it will happen.

As said before, Microsoft ultimately does not want mod tools to end up in our hands. From a logistic and financial standpoint, what would Microsoft gain from allowing a full unlocked HEK to be released with MCC? It hurts their franchise and in the end, would render any future Halo PC useless, as you would quite literally give the "best" of the community, a way to introduce future content right inside of MCC. This would make the profit of future titles very slim. Indeed it would please the community, but it would also hurt it as well.

Halo and HEK are and can be, a double edged sword for the PC Community. Microsoft also has a proven track record or retconning anything that doesn't fit their agenda. Whether it's backpedaling on another developers promise or their own internal studio.

That didn't stop the sales of past Halo games. What makes you think that it'll be any different this time?

The leadership from back then is hugely different from the one in charge right now. Edited by ghost901 on Mar 24, 2019 at 04:26 PM

By past Halo games you mean CE and Halo 2 Vista. The latter was a flop. If CE had been able to be expanded to the level of say... Halo Reach or Halo 4 in terms of content rendering and scripting we would never need another Halo PC game, as we would just eventually find ways to rip the content and plant it into CE like we have done these past years trying desperately to recreate Halo 3 to 4. And your really gonna tell me that you wouldn't rather have CE's server hosting over whatever it is we are going to get with MCC?

So if we are given modding tools for something like Halo 4 or Halo Reach, the engine itself would be more than capable of supporting and adding future content easily. From what I see in the Slipspace engine, the lighting is the only thing that really improved over Halo 4 and 5 besides the god awful clipping and rendering distances.Edited by Twinreaper on Mar 24, 2019 at 08:50 PM

Quote: --- Original message by: TwinreaperWell since the MCC version of Halo 2 is a modified version of the Vista port, I highly doubt there would be any major changes to the map structure or the tools. At best, we would get the full HEK without 99% of the function branches being nulled out before compilation.

As far as content creation goes in regards to Hamsters comment... don't see your logic or point? To actually state that there are no content creators in the CE or H2V community who could create good content for the other engine variations is just pressumption. I've been squeezing in quality content into H2V for the better part of 10 years...and the one thing that stops half my maps is the engines inability to handle larger poly count objects and extreme detail.

I would kill to have an HEK for Reach. In fact, Reach is really the only item in the MCC that I even want. Y'all can keep CE, 2, 3 and 4...give me Reach!

Oh, yeah. Imagine finally being able to remake Halo 1 with the Reach engine itself! Instead of having a new graphics engine laying over an older one, it's now just one new game engine! Imagine if CMT were to recreate SPV3 using the actual Reach Engine!

Quote: --- Original message by: TwinreaperAs far as content creation goes in regards to Hamsters comment... don't see your logic or point? To actually state that there are no content creators in the CE or H2V community who could create good content for the other engine variations is just pressumption. I've been squeezing in quality content into H2V for the better part of 10 years...and the one thing that stops half my maps is the engines inability to handle larger poly count objects and extreme detail.

I would kill to have an HEK for Reach. In fact, Reach is really the only item in the MCC that I even want. Y'all can keep CE, 2, 3 and 4...give me Reach!

Yep ive been pushing the poly limits in ce for ages. And honestly asking for editing kits for all of halo mcc is too much. Just support halo ce and halo reach. That way existing halo ce content is playable and we can move on to halo reach which imo is the best version of the engine anyways.

I've been modding Halo 1 for 13 years, no idea what half of those might even do. If you have high-poly models, compile them in a modern, Open-Source engine. Don't try to put them into a decade old, proprietary engine with no documentation or support that was only used on one game by one dev team.

All that stuff above is why Microsoft won't give us a Dev Kit. Nobody will know how to use it properly, and there's nobody who knows enough to teach it. They had teams of specialists making this game. That was 10 years ago. The best we'll get is a Halo 2 Vista style kit that allows custom BSPs for multiplayer maps and nothing else. but we're not getting that.

And yet people still learned halo ce despite its lack of documentation. Its not impossible and with a manual that outlines the functions of each tag type its even easier. Honestly its this kind of thought process that gave us the halo 2 editing kit in the first place.

Halo ce is one of the easiest games i have ever modded. You think ce is complicated try freelancer. That game was a pain in the rear to make content for before fan made tools were created

It's still better than making the people have to crack the game to make an alternate client just so they can mod the game without getting banned, and then they also have to reverse engineer everything in the game just so they can then actually mod (ElDewrito, IW4x, FiveM, Venice Unleashed just to name a few).

No documentation with provided tools will always be objectively better than the latter.Edited by 1bobsam1 on Mar 26, 2019 at 08:14 PM

Edit: Also, to clarify again; I'm all for an editing kit. I'd love if they included one. But there's so many obstacles, and that's not what they're doing this for. I'd love if they made an editing kit, but they're not going to.

Apparently, the Eldewrito team getting Halo 3's campaign maps to load was a catalyst in this. Better sell it before they release it for free.

The same blog post talks about how they're not working with 343 now, but will be when it's time to implement mod support. So maybe there will be some type of something down the road. I still don't believe it.

@DeadHamster They confirmed the opposite of both of the things you said. They plan to incorporate a mod community because crossplay isn't going to happen and such. The Chief collection won't drop games individually either. They just add each game as it's ready, starting with Reach.Edited by Prismatica7 on May 5, 2019 at 01:52 AM

@DeadHamster They confirmed the opposite of both of the things you said. They plan to incorporate a mod community because crossplay isn't going to happen and such. Edited by Prismatica7 on May 5, 2019 at 01:52 AM

Post links or gtfo.

Everything I've read so far has been "Working with eldewrito" even though really they haven't been. I'll believe it when I see them confirm it, and not just some shill on reddit appeasing the diehards with some ambiguous non-committals. Until then the only modding support I expect to see is the kind that gets forced in by the community.

But yeah, if you can prove me wrong post links. I'd love to see them confirm they'll release an editing kit, and for which games. But if you're gonna link me to the shill on reddit saying they're friends with eldewrito, gtfo.

@DeadHamster They confirmed the opposite of both of the things you said. They plan to incorporate a mod community because crossplay isn't going to happen and such. Edited by Prismatica7 on May 5, 2019 at 01:52 AM

Post links or gtfo.

Everything I've read so far has been "Working with eldewrito" even though really they haven't been. I'll believe it when I see them confirm it, and not just some shill on reddit appeasing the diehards with some ambiguous non-committals. Until then the only modding support I expect to see is the kind that gets forced in by the community.

But yeah, if you can prove me wrong post links. I'd love to see them confirm they'll release an editing kit, and for which games. But if you're gonna link me to the shill on reddit saying they're friends with eldewrito, gtfo.

I could've sworn I heard them say custom content support was planned on the actual stream, but they would've announced by now that the games would be separate and there's already a steam listing for the whole chief collection so that's out of the way. Don't wanna sound like the little turd I probably am, but I heard, I think it was ske7ch, on the Inside Xbox stream say that they indeed are planning for custom content support. I could be wrong.

They definitely have said they want to support it, but haven't made anything concrete and say preventing cheating is a bigger concern. The most I expect to see something like the editing kit they released for H2V, or a re-release of the H1 editing kit. Nothing that fully supports modding outside of Multiplayer Maps using the existing tagsets. Releasing and supporting in any fashion 5-6 different editing kits is unrealistic, and there's no way they can incorporate a single program to build to all platforms.

They could easily release all of bungie's editing tools, fully unlocked and without documentation and say "Good luck kids". That would be easy. But I don't think anyone expects them to do that. And everything else is hard.

Attention is money.Ask the news media.Ask marketers.Ask advertisers.Ask Google.Ask YouTube.Ask Apple.Ask Intel.Ask Nvidia.Ask AMD.Ask Dell.Ask Yamaha.Ask Ferrari.Ask Disney.Have you heard of any of these companies? Is it because they design the only possible products? No, it's because they have gotten your attention. Notice how they have so much money. I wonder why that is. Could they have so much money if no one ever realized they existed? They play the consumer game; but there are many organizations you never heard of nor see which have untold trillions of dollars. In the consumer game, though, attention is money. And it's a game of eyes and wills. Lose will and you lose eyes. Lose eyes and you lose will. Attention is money.Ask Roblox, which keeps attention and makes many millions off of content players make using its Roblox Studio.Ask Microsoft, which bought Halo and used it to bring attention to the first Xbox console.Their customers not having actual modding tools since Halo 2 Vista has lost them so much money it would make their heads spin had they realized.It would be yet another financial disgrace if Microsoft still refuses to outsource content development to its customers.

Who cares? Just play the game tbh modding it isn't everything make a new IP or something.

It'd be cool but making up excuses like this is frankly a waste of time and the time people have spent complaining could have gone towards making something nice that echoes those games instead like Splitgate.