Remi Ayodele remains silent on whether he said “give me my money”

Posted by Mike Florio on June 24, 2012, 8:41 PM EDT

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One of the most important persons in the bounty scandal hasn’t been accused of doing anything. Yet.

Cut by the Vikings the same day the NFL announced the punishments of the various non-players in the bounty scandal and re-signed by the Saints five days after the league announced the player suspensions, defensive tackle Remi Ayodele widely is believed in league circles as being the person who says “give me my money” on the notorious sideline video from the 2009 NFC title game.

It’s Ayodele whose head and torso block Anthony Hargrove’s mouth and head after Hargrove says “Bobby” in a sing-song way, as if to say, “Bobbbby, you’re the guy who broke the leg of the old man who plays quarterback for the other team.” When the words “give me my money” come out, neither Hargrove’s mouth nor anyone else’s can be seen. But it’s Ayodele, not Hargrove, who hit Brett Favre high as Bobby McCray hit Favre low, making Ayodele the more of the two to be demanding his money, if “give me my money” is evidence of a bounty of Favre.

Regardless of who said it, Ayodele’s silence is becoming more and more conspicuous. His agent, Jordan Woy, has not responded to an email asking whether Ayodele is willing to talk about the situation. Regardless of whether Ayodele talks before training camp, he’ll find himself in a swarm of microphones once he shows up for preseason practices.

It wouldn’t be a surprise if Ayodele already is hearing from current and former teammates who want him to take responsibility for the words, especially since the league’s contention that Hargrove said “give me my money” seems to be the only evidence the league has to prove that Hargrove lied to investigators in 2010.

Coming clean wouldn’t come without risk for Ayodele. If he says that he said “give me my money,” Ayodele could face a suspension of his own.

Then again, if he doesn’t, Ayodele could face plenty of heat in the locker room.

In the end, it may not matter. The league has dug in its heels so tightly on its position that Hargrove said “give me my money” that the league may not change its tune, even if Ayodele publicly claims responsibility for the four words.

Either way, Ayodele has said nothing. Eventually, he’ll have to say something. What he says could go a long way toward exonerating Hargrove.

Why would he need to say anything? It’s 100% a lock that unless voice analysis is used the league cannot prove who said it. The video is inconclusive at best. It could have been someone off-camera. And its not even conclusive that “pay me my money” is about a bounty. There’s any number of other logical reasons a player, coach, staff, film crew, NFL official – basically anyone on the sideline – could have said that phrase. It’s definitely not “proof” of a bounty on anybody. Unless of course it can be corroborated…and that would be a first for any evidence thus far put forth by the league.

Hargrove never admitted to lying. The league relies on Hargrove saying “give me my money” as proof that he lied. His declaration doesn’t admit that he lied. It says only that he was told by coaches to deny the existence of the bounty program. He never said that he knew there was one.

Another excellent point Mike. So the League has also mischaracterized (i.e. lied) about Hargrove’s official statement. I’m thinking its only a matter of time, maybe even this week, before Hargrove, Fujita and maybe Smith (he’s been quiet) join Vilma’s defamation suit.

Didn’t Hargrove say that he didn’t know of the existence of any bounty system? Obviously one existed, and obviously every defender on the Saints were aware of it. Regardless of who said what in the video, there is abundant evidence that any Saint defender that claimed ignorance of a bounty system lied.

This video proves 2 things (assuming most people believe the NFL didn’t add in the audio).

1. There was in fact a pay to injur program. Vitt was talking to the defense about Favre’s leg possibly being broken and knocked out of the game, when one of those defensive players (we’re not exactly sure who) responds with “Bobby, give me my money!”. Sure, it could have been a beer vendor, but most reasonable people can hear what was going on.

2. Hargrove got punished for LYING about the program. Did he specifically ask for the money, that is up for debate, but the NFL says that Hargrove denied the existance of the bounty all together (as he was directed to do by his coaches). This video (along with the ledgers, powerpoing slides, and other testimony) is enough evidence for the league to believe there was a bounty system in place, and Hargrove LIED to them in his testimony. For that he his guilty and that is part of the reason he’s been suspended.

But it’s Ayodele, not Hargrove, who hit Brett Favre high as Bobby McCray hit Favre low, making Ayodele the more of the two to be demanding his money, if “give me my money” is evidence of a bounty of Favre.
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But if Roger Gooddell used that kind of skewed logic, you’d crucify HIM, right?

You’re making so leaps in logic that the league simply hasn’t been able to prove. Its not clear from the video that a defensive player said “give me my money”. Even if it was a player why would Hargrove, who was not in on the play where Farve tweaked his PRE-EXISTING ankle injury, ask Bobby for money? Has proof been shown that McCray was the pay-master for this alleged “scheme”? There’s no reason a player might have said “give me my money”…it has to prove a bounty. And this one instance, even if true proves a 3-year program was in place?

And a ledger was never offered as evidence by the league. It was reported in an online news article but never put forth by the league. PowerPoint slides created by the league to summarize alleged raw evidence is not legal evidence. Unless of course a single reference to Dog the Bounty Hunter in the 2010 season is now concrete corroborated undeniable proof of a 3-year pay-for-injury program

If the league is going to deprive multiple players and coaches of their livelihoods they really need more proof than they’ve been able to show to the players and public.

Hargrove never admitted to lying. The league relies on Hargrove saying “give me my money” as proof that he lied. His declaration doesn’t admit that he lied. It says only that he was told by coaches to deny the existence of the bounty program. He never said that he knew there was one.
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Yeah, he says the coaches told him to keep his mouth shut…..about something that now he says never even existed in the first place. That makes sense.

Simply put, why would the Saints coaches have to tell Hargrove to deny the existence of a bounty program…..if there was no bounty program to begin with?

“Hey Anthony…..please don’t lie to the NFL and say there was a bounty program, when we both know it didn’t exist. Even though you’d have absolutely no desire to tell such a lie, we just need to make sure you won’t tell them there was a bounty program, even though there wasn’t one. Got it? Thanks!”

Enough already. It’s apparent the Saints only had a pay for performance program. Only the idiot Goodell would think otherwise. Let’s move on to other things now….and let those egotistical folks at ESPN get off their soap boxes now.

Oh, and NFL owners, it’s now time for you guys to get rid of Goodell before he decides he has it out for your team……….

You’re making so leaps in logic that the league simply hasn’t been able to prove. Its not clear from the video that a defensive player said “give me my money”. Even if it was a player why would Hargrove, who was not in on the play where Farve tweaked his PRE-EXISTING ankle injury, ask Bobby for money? Has proof been shown that McCray was the pay-master for this alleged “scheme”? There’s no reason a player might have said “give me my money”…it has to prove a bounty. And this one instance, even if true proves a 3-year program was in place?

And a ledger was never offered as evidence by the league. It was reported in an online news article but never put forth by the league. PowerPoint slides created by the league to summarize alleged raw evidence is not legal evidence. Unless of course a single reference to Dog the Bounty Hunter in the 2010 season is now concrete corroborated undeniable proof of a 3-year pay-for-injury program
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My point is, for someone to believe there was no pay for performace/ injury program, you would have to believe that NONE of the proposed evidence is real. ALL OF IT must be made up or misinterpreted.

The people who ratted on the Saints lied about everything just because they had an axe to grind.

The G. Williams audio directing players to “Go for the ACL!!” repeatedly, and “Kill the head!” means absolutely nothing,

The emails offering an additional $5,000 for the Warner bounty was just a “joke”,

G. Williams and Payton aren’t saying much to defend themselves because they just want to remain silent to get back in the league, not because they were guilty,

The truth is, that even if one of these things are true, then it’s true that there was a bounty system in place. The only way you could say there was no bounty is that if you believe that every single one of these things is an accident/ misinterpretation/ or something completely made up.

You can try to pick apart each piece of evidence and come up with some alternative explanation for each one, but there is a TON of smoke here. Let me put it this way… if there was an investigation on a team that did NOT have a bounty system, I don’t think they would come up with even a fraction of the amount of evidence they have against the Saints. There wouldn’t be incriminating audio of coaches, ledgers of payments, emails offering money for injuries, players wouldn’t be saying “pay me my money” after an apparent injury to the opposing QB, etc…

The only way all that stuff pops up, is if there is in fact something going on, and in this case, there’s definately something going on.

Not that I want to go blow by blow on the “evidence” you listed above, but:

1. The “pay me my money” could mean any number of things besides proof of a bounty on Farve. If it really was a said to Bobby McCray the most logical explanation is a side bet, unless you believe McCray was the bounty pay-master.

2. The Dog the Bounty Hunter slide has lots of references to other shows, etc. It was used one time in one slide in three year’s worth of pregame PowerPoints. It was a euphemism. If they had a 3-year program don’t you think every slide would have had a bounty reference?

3. The ledger are so specious they weren’t even presented as evidence by the league. And they only showed one payout for a “cart off” to Harper for a hit on Jacobs in the 2009 Giants game. Official NFL game records show that Sharper, not Harper made the tackle, and that Jacobs was back in for the rest of the game (more than two quarters). Go look it up.

4. Gregg Williams and Ornstein have already recanted any corroboration they gave the league. Only the unnamed source (widely known as a disgruntled fired coach let go for cause) has not recanted.

5. GW’s highly charged statements prior to the 49ers playoff game were hyperbole…proven by the FACT that no injurious or illegal hits were made by the Saints in that game. Unlike the Giants going after the 49ers KR the next week and taking him out.

6. The $5K offered by Ornstein has been denied by sender and all recipients alike. The dude was in jail at the time and had no way to pay. If he can’t pay how can it prove a bounty?

7. And yes I do think that GW and Payton staying silent is absolutely ONLY due to their need for reinstatement by Goodell. He’s got a virtual gun to their heads, you really think they’re free to talk?

Not disputing pay-for-performance was in place…just like multiple players have reported at teams like the Redskins, Bills, Titan, Packers. But not on shred of credible, corroborated evidence has been shown for pay-for-injury. And we have multiple examples now where the league has lied, overstated and exaggerated alleged evidence.

Let the punishments fit the evidence, not the wildly exaggerated allegations.

My point is, for someone to believe there was no pay for performace/ injury program, you would have to believe that NONE of the proposed evidence is real. ALL OF IT must be made up or misinterpreted.

That’s the big problem with this whole “Bountygate” story. Pay for Performance and Pay for Injury are two ENTIRELY separate things. You won’t find a Saints fan or, in all likelihood, a Saints player who denies there was a pay for performance system going on. They were absolutely guilty of that, just like the majority of teams in the NFL. They didn’t stop when they were asked to, and for that hubris, as a Saints fan I freely admit they should be punished. My (our) issue comes with the severity of the punishments in relation to the evidence presented. If all that was going on was a few hundred bucks here and there for interceptions, sacks, fumble recoveries, etc., then a year each for Payton and Vilma are GROSSLY unfair and in no way appropriate for the crime committed.

The vitriol spewed forth when the story first broke cemented opinions that the Saints were out to maim people, and having watched every minute that our defense was on the field since Gregg Williams came to town (and many years before), that simply isn’t true. If they were out to hurt people, you’re asking me to believe that we had the most inept group of NFL players ever assembled in the history of the league (which also isn’t true).

As a Saints fan, I just want full disclosure. If they’ve got a smoking gun, show it. You don’t have to say who told you about it. But show me footage of illegal plays. Show me corroborated documents that detail an actual target, and show me players going after that target in an actual game. And no, the Vikings NFC Championship game doesn’t count. As others have pointed out, the hits on Favre were all legal save for one (which was penalized), and even that one was within the confines of hits that you see on a weekly basis in the NFL. The Saints weren’t head-hunting, and they weren’t going after knees and ankles after the whistle. They’re being penalized (again, as they should) for not following explicit league orders. But there’s a difference between what they were doing and what they’ve been accused of, and I just want the penalty to match the crime. What’s been doled out absolutely does not.

My point is, for someone to believe there was no pay for performace/ injury program, you would have to believe that NONE of the proposed evidence is real. ALL OF IT must be made up or misinterpreted.

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You are doing exactly what the NFL wants you to do:

“pay for performance / injury program”

If they had pay for performance then the accusations and penalties certainly do not fit the crime. It would be wrong and should be punished, but that is not what the organization was accused of doing.

If they even had a “QB out” pot in the NFCCG game… the accusations and penalties do not fit the crime. (That would be similar to Rex Ryan’s dotting program) It would be wrong and should be punished, but that is not what the organization was accused of doing.

If the league can’t prove that specific players were targeted to be injured for 3 years with an elaborate cover-up then the accusations and penalties do not fit the crime.

If they can’t prove Hargrove lied, then the accusations and penalties do not fit the crime.

If they can’t prove Vilma put a $10,000 bounty on Favre’s head, then the accusations and penalties do not fit the crime.

Same with Fujita and Smith, the league needs to prove they created and funded a pay for injury program.

Go back and read Goodell’s statements when the coaches and players were suspended. Read his accusations, then come back and say that he has proved what he said was happening.

You talked about picking apart pieces of evidence, but what about exaggerating evidence? Saying you can see Hargrove’s mouth moving or he admitted the existence of a bounty program in his statement. And I won’t even get into the Ornstein emails, but I’m pretty sure an email pledging money in a bounty pool would not have made it out of Greg Bensel’s email if it was serious. And if it did then the Commissioner lied about what the ownership knew.

I believe the saints had a performance payment system, just like every other team had. I remember making petty bets in pop warner about tds, ints, fumrecs. I personally hope Vilma prevails in his suit against Roger.

Didn’t Hargrove say that he didn’t know of the existence of any bounty system? Obviously one existed, and obviously every defender on the Saints were aware of it. Regardless of who said what in the video, there is abundant evidence that any Saint defender that claimed ignorance of a bounty system lied.

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and by obviously, you mean because the nfl said so and all the coaches and management admitted to it?

wow, the saints pounded the lions so hard last year, even their fans now have brain damage.

How would Hargrove be exonerated if he was standing right there when Remi said “give me my money” in response to Vitt’s statement that Favre was hurt. Since he unquestionably heard that, it is clearly false for him to deny ANY knowledge of a “pay for injury” program.

It is also a stretch to say that he doesn’t admit lying in the declaration. Somewhere in paragraphs 10 and 11 he would have mentioned that his denial of any bounty program was based on his honest belief instead of only saying the denial was based on the coaches’ instructions.

Use of the “give me my money” statement is ridiculous because you cannot see who said it. For all we know it’s dubbed.

So far the evidence is a little shakey on any program except pay for performance, and the only reason I think that existed is because the players have (stupidly) admitted to it in subsequent interviews.

It’s also a little bizarre now that the players are fighting and the coaches, who are in my opinion more culpable, are quiet. Obviously the coaches are just waiting this thing out, hoping Goodell will reinstate them. But their silence is only geared toward career protection.

It isn’t? If that was the ONLY piece of evidence the league had you may be right. But it’s not. It’s just a small piece of the corroborating evidence that (when looked at in context) ABSOLUTELY proves the comment was about the “bounty / pay for performance”.

The fact he and his agent are not talking speaks loudly to me. He knows he can a) clear Hargrove and take his chances with the NFL…OR…b) he can stay silent and be looked at as someone who threw a team mate under the bus. It’s “pick your poison” time for him and it looks like he took option B.

4.) Why insist that there is no evidence that the Saints had a “pay for performance” program then say it’s not a big deal if they did?

5.) Why did none of these guys cooperate with the investigation in the 1st place?

6.) Why didn’t any of them show any real outrage towards Payton, Loomis or Williams’ suspensions? (They seemed fine so long as someone else was taking the heat.)

7.) If it’s not a big deal why didn’t they just own up to it from the beginning when they were investigated 2 years ago?

8.) Why tell players to deny something existed when it didn’t? Or in Hargorve’s case, why say you were told to deny something when it didn’t exist?

Has it occurred to anyone that the reason for why these guys are being punished is because they lied about it’s existence in the 1st place? You can’t say that “it’s just a ‘pay for performance’ program, it’s not a big deal, other teams do it too.” Then go around denying it existed and lying about it without looking like you’re trying to cover up something that you know you shouldn’t do. They aren’t being punished strictly because of their participation in the program. They are being punished for obstructing an investigation & covering it up. But since it was just a “pay for performance program” and every team does it, there’s no reason to deny it existed, right? So the players are denying the existence of something other teams do but they didn’t? Either it existed and the players are lying or it didn’t exist and Goodell fabricated everything from the ledgers, to the PowerPoint presentation, to the emails, to the witnesses.

The players are doing a lot of contradicting themselves. Clearly it is a big deal if these guys didn’t want to own up to it when they had the chance. So ask yourself this, if other teams participate in something that is not a big deal why deny, why obstruct, why storm out of an appeal hearing, why insist on speaking to the press instead of making an attempt to cooperate with the NFL in accordance to the CBA rules that they agreed to? This whole thing could have been avoided and they players have no one but themselves to blame.

If they want to take it to a court of law they will be putting all of the evidence and all of the witnesses in front of a jury and they will have to prove that Goodell fabricated the whole thing, that they did nothing wrong and that there was total cooperation with the NFL on their part. Unfortunately, there is no evidence in their favor in that regard. They will be forcing whistle-blowers to be revealed, who probably didn’t want to go public for fear of jeopardizing their own careers, under scrutiny. And after all this, if Goodell if found to be not guilty and they are found to be guilty, you think any of them will apologize to the people they have hurt to get out of serving their suspensions? I highly doubt it.

Vilma, Hargrove, Fujita & Smith are all complaining about how Goodell is ruining their reputations. Not once have any of them taken a mature approach in handling this and that has done more to hurt their reputation than any punishment levied by Goodell.

Never has the phrase, “Be careful what you wish for because you may surely get it.” been more prevalent.

“I want to express my sincere regret and apology to the NFL, Mr. Benson, and the New Orleans Saints fans for my participation in the ‘pay for performance’ program while I was with the Saints. It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I take full responsibility for my role. I am truly sorry. I have learned a hard lesson and I guarantee that I will never participate in or allow this kind of activity to happen again.”

Greg Williams has ADMITTED the bounty system in New Orleans and is the only coach or manager that has shut up and accepted the opinion of the league. And he’s the one that started it.

The Bounty is real. It happened. The evidence is overwhelming, and even when you try to re-hash it, it still is hash.

“Greg Williams has ADMITTED the bounty system in New Orleans and is the only coach or manager that has shut up and accepted the opinion of the league. And he’s the one that started it.”

Once again, even in Gregg Williams’ official statement (which was written by the NFL, by the way), the key phrase used is PAY FOR PERFORMANCE. Trying to injure people and paying for big, LEGAL plays like sacks, interceptions, and fumble recoveries are not the same thing, and it’s pretty troubling that the NFL has so easily moved the bar on the discussion and lumped the two together.

Yup everyone is lying about a “pay for performance” program ever existing within the Saints organization. Hargrove was told to deny something that wasn’t going on in the 1st place. All the evidence that we’ve see so far has been completely fabricated by the NFL. Payton, Loomis & Williams have all apologized for something that never happened even though they’ve have plenty of chances to speak out and deny the charges afterwards, because Goodell forced their hand. These guys are being punished for doing something that other teams have done because they been so forthright in admitting that they did what they are accusing other teams of doing. It’s a big conspiracy theory against a team that recently won it’s 1st SB because they were getting too successful at winning 1 SB.

Sounds to me like the paranoid rantings of someone who has been doing the real hash smoking.

@gingerkid2000 – So nice of you to make up all that just for my benefit. Unfortunately for you, it makes no sense whatsoever, kinda like the nfl’s ‘evidence’. Just to try (again) to make some of you people understand….

Nobody is lying about a “pay for performance” program. The nfl however, is lying about a ‘bounty’ program. All the evidence we’ve seen so far has been completely, presumptively analyzed and misrepresented by the nfl. Payton, Loomis and Williams all apologized for having a “pay for performance” program, NOT a ‘bounty’ program. These guys are being punished for something the nfl “said” they did, not what they and other teams have done. No idea where your ‘conspiracy’ lunacy is coming from, but you do need to step away from the pipe in any case.