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Ok Steve, you are getting a little squirrely here. When you unrack an RDL do you set it on the ground? NO! Therefore it is hanging..

Come on, really? Squirrely?

Did you watch the video of me unracking 635? It wasn't hanging. I was trying to stay upright and live. There was nothing hanging about it. You start to hang after you have first made sure that you are able to remain alive and uninjured. After said point I tightened my lower back and proceeded to hang the bar.

You're debating semantics here.

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Don't lower this to the level of a pissing match. That isn't you.

Why are you doing this? Did I offend you? I never tried to lower this into anything. I responded to your questions.

Please don't talk down to me, nor lecture me. I was responding to your questions, and did so in a respectful manner. If you don't like my response, that doesn't mean I am pissing at you.

You're the one calling me "squirrely." I don't appreciate that tone one bit.

I think you're missing the point. Not every article is written as an opus. Christ man, I spend 18 hours a day online trying to help people. You think I have time to write 5000 word detailed replies to every question? Cut me some slack here man.

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I sent you a PM stating that you should read that information, but you respond that you do your RDL like Rippetoe. I never said you didn't man.

Yes you did. You said that I was implying the only difference was between bar path, which means you were implying I did not understand Rippetoe.

How else would I interpret this comment?

You specially commented that I believed the only difference was bar path. I responded saying I never implied this was the only difference.

The bar stayed in contact with the leg the entire time, over the total length of the rep stroke. The hips were the hinge, the fulcrum, and this is where the real action took place. We all used a narrow-stance conventional deadlift style as per Hugh, with maybe six inches between the heelswe learned how to do the bow and arrow technique using a conventional pull stance.

The stiff leg was the number 1 assistance exercise. It worked the hell out of the hinge and thats what Cassidy wanted: to turn spinal erectors into industrial cranes. One Hugh truism which always stuck with me was, The best assistance exercises are the ones that most closely resemble the lift itself. That is profound if you ponder it.ergo, narrow and wide grip flat bench presses are superior assistance exercise to say the incline barbell or dumbbell press. Narrow stance high bar squats are a superior squat assistance exercise than leg presses. Stiff-leg deadlifts are therefore better than rows or cleans. We stiff-leg pulled the 1st rep off the floor in conventional style.Once erect we lowered in stiff-leg style until the barbell quietly and evenly touch the platform. Pull erect with bent yet stable knees. The back is held rigid; ultra-tight, every back muscle taunt to the max.

His SLDLs sound very much like RDLs. Marty though pulled from the floor. He mentions a tight back, so I am not sure how they handled reps that forces lower back rounding. I know Marty was also a fan of SLDLs off blocks.

I like Fazc's comment about the purpose of the lifts, but more clarity could be useful here too.

You're my man, Mike.

The whole idea about differentiating the lifts based on arbitrary starting from the floor, or from the hang or whatever is completely missing the point. It's missing the forest for the tree's and it's not the way I would teach the movement at all.

The RDL serves the purpose of strengthening a strong arched back position where the hamstring and hips are the primary flexors and movers. So the type of position you would need to maintain for a strong Power Clean or a strong strict olympic-style Deadlift or pull. Very little quad involvement and the lower back is only statically strengthened, not through the range of motion.

You can think of the RDL being there to prevent the lower back from being strengthened in a flexed position. So it's the type of thing we might do to prevent someone from rounding too much on a deadlift, or perhaps the type of thing we'd do to assist a power clean and particularly the first pull into most of the cleaning movements. That is where the back is nicely arched, which includes both the hips coming through and the upper back arched.

The SLDL serves the purpose of strengthening a (relatively) rounded back position. It's the type of thing you would use to strengthen those grinding lifts like the full deadlift, lifting stones or anything where the back needs to flex under load. It mimics that position and strengthens those points, so that is why you would use it.

So of course you *could* teach whatever the hell you like, and Yates, McDonald etc can teach whatever they like as well. But as individuals actually understanding and thinking the difference between why you might use one or the other is very valuable and you don't need to understand complex biomechanics for it either, you just need an open mind. If they both essentially mould into the same thing you're missing key exercises which can greatly increase your power and that of people you train.

Finally the start positions are merely a function of flexibility and body limitations. If your entire back is solid, allowing the hams/hips to be the prime flexors and movers then you will have to start from the top as few could reach down to the floor like that.

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I assume the SLDL is mostly for lower back? And RDL is mostly for hamstring?

As you probably guessed already, it's really about strengthening body positions rather then individual muscles. The SLDL strengthens the lower backs ability to flex, the RDL strengthens the lower backs ability to maintain a solid position. Two very different purposes.

Finally, finally, finally... The following is a purely tongue-in-cheek comment so all of you take it as such.

Why don't we just get Rippetoe, McDonald and Yates (and Gallagher!) here, or better still go off to their boards to debate this. Since obviously none of us grown men here are capable of reasoning our own points without resorting to "yeah but Rippetoe said this" or "Yates did that" lol

Do the lift you need to do, with the tech you need, for the reason you need to do it Sounds simple lol

I pick things up I put them down. I do that over and over.

Good point Iain. Fazc too. It never occurred to me about strengthening a position although that seems obvious now! That is what we're doing even though I have always thought of assistance as hitting a particular joint or muscle.

__________________
I am Anton Zdravko Martin!

Best meet lifts: Sq 150 Kg (330 lb), Bench 120 Kg (264), DL 160 (352) @89 Kg (197)
Best gym lifts: Sq 375, Bench 280 (pause), DL 385 @205 or less
Goals: 3/4/5 while healthy and fit
"Hack away at anything which isn't essential. Do what you love, and do it often." Fazc.
"Everything competes for recovery so more assistance is not always the best idea." miked96
"Squat:15 sets of 3 with 150Kg
Deadlift:15 sets of 3 with 150Kg
It's not rocket science." Big Swede