Interview with Mrs. C. F. Gordon, 1967

~nterview with Mrs. C. F . Gordon , 203~ E . Edgefield , Longview , Texas
(Step daughter of Reverend Burrell Cannon) I 9~ 7
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My name is Mrs. C. F . Gordon and I live at 203~ E. Edgefield
and I am the step daughter of Rev . B . Cannon. He married my
mother when I was six years old. He was the most wonderful
father in the world. He went to work on the airplane. He
studied about ten years before he went to work on it. He
got all of it out of the Bible. He was a good Christian man.
He was a minister when he married my mother. She wasn't a
Christian but became one not long after that. I had three
step sisters and a half brother and they all younger than I am.
He never introduced me as his step daughter, I was his oldest
daughter. He sold his saw mill to work on the plane. He
didn ' t have enough money so he sold shares and incorporated it ,
it get money to finish it. He finished the model and took it
to Texarkana and was on the way to St . Louis with it , to try
and raise capital . A storm came up and destroyed it so he had
to go to work and my mother ran a boarding house. We moved
to Longview and started another company . They sent him to
Chicago to build the airplane . The plane was a success but
they wouldn't let him take it up and someone else took L up.
He ran into a telephone pole and destroyed it , s o he didn ' t
have any money to do anything with it . He started an
invention on the cotton picker boll weevil destroyer. That's
what he was working on when he died . He never failed in any
of his inventions . .
Where did he die ?
Marshall, at my brothers home
Is he buried in Marshall?
No , he is buried here in Longview, in Gracehill Cemetery.
He and my mother both are buried there.
When did he marry your mother? Do you remember the year?
1890 .
You were around when he built the plane?
Yes. I was about sixteen years old and we lived in Pittsburg. ----- How long did he spend in he actual constructon of the plane?
He started it in 1901 and I Qon_'J; .. know bOILJQrrK_tLtook to
Gomplete it because LW_8Jl . TI1.?r!,~.~_d and has a family of my-own.
Was it about a year?
Yes.
Do you remember anything about him trying to fly.
No. He just built a model in Pittsburg and built the real
one in Chlcago , but it ,;jas-ere-strayed.
When he built the plane in Pittsburg, he never intended
for it to fly?
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No . That was a model . He never put the engine in it there.
Are there any remains of the plane around now?
No.
When it wrecked in Texarkana, what did they do with the parts ,
did they throw them away then?
Yes . We did save the wheel .
The plane was built on the second floor o~ Thorsdale's foundary?
Did you get a chance to took at it?
Yes. I watched him build it because we lived close to the
foundry .
What type of wood did they use in the plane?
I don't believe he used wood . He used some kind of cloth for
the wings and steel to hold them up with .
You think the construction was all metal?
Yes , all but the cloth used for the wings .
Fox: How was he supposed to fly in the model? WAS he laying down
or sitting?
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He was sitting. The airplane was supposed to have compressed
air so it would come down easy .
ADout how many wheels did it have?
Four, two on each side . The middle wheel propelled it and
made it go back and forth .
What was the middle wheel like?
It was like tbe others but smaller.
Was it a gear?
I guess. I only saw the model and never the real plane.
How long was the model:
'--- ----.. ----".
ABout 20 feet •
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Was it a bi plane?
Yes .
When he finished the model, how did he get it out of the
building?
They had to take the front of the building down.
Did they lower it with block and tackle?
Yes.
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Fox: They put it on a flat car?
Gordon: Yes. He was going to take it to St . Louis but got as
far as Texarkana because my mother has a sister living there .
The storm tore it up and we were all stranded there.
Fox: Do you remember what time of year it was? (when the plane
was wrecked ?)
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It was in the Epring sometime . It was about April or May.
That was probabaly in 1903?
Yes.
What did he do when it wrecked?
He had to go to work . He went to work for a saw mill , in
Texarkana.
How long did you live in Texarkana?
We lived there from 1903 to 1905.
Then where did you go?
We went to Mineola and he remained in the saw mill business.
We went to West Texas and he cut ties for the railroad . We
stayed there about a year and a half.
Fox: What year was it~
Gordon: About 1907 . Then we moved back to Longview in 1908 . He started
to work on the plane again .
Fox: When was the wFeck in CHicago?
Gordon: I don't know. I guess it was about 1908 or 1909 .
FOK: Do you remember the name of the company that was formed
here in Longview?
Gordon: No.
Fox: Do you remember anyone who was an officer in be company?
Gordon: I don 't remember.
Fox: Do you remember whFFe in Chicago he went?
Gordon: No. I don 't believe he ever told us . He just went to a
machine shop.
Fox: Do you remember the name of the pilot who flew the plane?
Gordon: I belive it was Wilder . I don;t know the first name.
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When he came back to Longview in 1910, when did he go to work
for Guy McKay's machine shop?
I believe it was as soon as he came back.
started making the cotton picker machine.
That's when he
Fox: When did he go to Marhsall?
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In 1921 or 1922. He went there about a year before he died.
Why did he go to Marhsall?
He went to look at other machine shops.
Do you know Rowe Locket? Didn't he help build the plane?
Yes, I know him . His sister is still living . Rowe was the
main machanic teat helped them all the way through.
What did Rowe Locket do after the plane crashed?
I don't know.
Did you leave Pittsburg in 1903 and didn't come back?
Yes.
Were the people in Pittsburg all behind it? When he
for Texarkana, you said it was to raise more money.
couldn't get it from the people in Pittsbrug?
left
He
THey didn't have a lot of money. They raised enough to
build bhe model , but they didn't have enough to build
the air plane so he went to St . Louis .
The only people that invested money were from Pittsburg?
Or did they come from out of state?
Just pittsburg people .
He just went to Pittsburg to look at the machine shops?
Yes .
Are th~e any people still alive that would remember the
plane and the foundry?
Rowe Locket's sister is the~ I know.
Was his son alive at the time of the flight? He was born
aftEr wards?
They
left
body
Tapp
didn't have any children .
there . There were six of
told me they were all dead
is still living .
THis one
the Tapp
but one .
Wasnt Mr . Tapp president of the company?
Jim Tapp.
was born after we
brothers. Some
I be lieve Lon
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Fox: Do you remember the date he was born in Coffeeville? (Mississippi!
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April 16 , 1848
Does he have any kinfolk in Coffeeville?
He had two nieces , one lived in California and the other in
Mississippi . They are both dead . He didn't have any brothers
or sisters .
He went to college in Clinton , ~;ississippi?
Yes .
When was he first married?
He was 21 when he f irst married .
Your m~ther was his fourth wife?
Yes , and he married her in 1890 .
Fox : All the wives died. He never was divorceH?
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No . he never was.
When did your mother die?
In 1914 , in Longview.
Fox: He built the second plane in Chicago?
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Yes .
Do you know any connection with hi. and the Wright brothers?
No , he didn't know them .
Did he ever get a letter from them?
If he did , I never knew about it .
I read that the German government offered $100, 000 for the
petent rights .
He wouldn't have sold them if they'd have offered him a
million doCblars .
He did get an offer from the German government?
Yes.
When was this? Was it before it was finished?
Yes, I believe it was after we came back here . It was never
the money he was after he just wanted to prove he could do it .
The one in Chicago did f ly , didn't it?
Yes , they took it up . It would have been a success but they
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ran inot a tower or telephone pole.
Fox: Was it an accident or did he do it on purpose?
Gordon: I don't know. Illy father was very honest.
Fox: How did the German government offe r him the money? Was i t
in person or letter.
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I think it was by letter . A man in the United States
represented the German government.
Hhere did he write from?
I believe Washington.
Do you have the letter?
No.
Did he save the letter?
I don' t kno~l.
Did he write back to the people?
I guess so . That's the only one I know about. He took out
patents for everything on the model. The second plane was
just like the first one except bigger. He took out the
patent for the second plane in 1901. He didn;t get his foreign
patents until a year later .
Did he have several congregations?
Yes, he has several churches .
Can you give me the names of some of them?
close to Gilmer , Masodina near Longview , and
in Pittsburg . He preached out in the country .
Do you know when he started his ministry?
No. I think he went to a stmiMary .
How did he get interests6 in machanics .
I don't know . I don ' t know what s ~minary he went to .
Fox: Do you know someone who might know?
Gordon: No . Everyone is dead now .
Fox: Are any of the machinics still alive?
Gordon: No .
Fox: Is guy McKay dead? Did he have a son?
Gordon: Yes . He didnt have any children .
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His second wife is still living, but s he wouldn't know.
Was he an only child?
No . He had a step brother. He had thr ee brothers I know of .
He ha s a half sister .
Are they living around here?
No. The neice was his br othe r s daughter . She went back
to Mississippi.
Then the one who married in California----that was his sister's daughter;
she married a Lawrence .
How big was you family? His sons and daughters ---how big was it eventually?
He had just two daughters and a son and a step-daughter, of course .
Did he have sons and daughters by a former marriage when he married your mother?
No, they ,,,ere by my mother . You know, my father died ;,hen I was 5 years old.
Then your mother was the only one he had children by----are they still alive?
I'm the only one of the family alive, and they were all younger than I am .
There was one living in Marshall, wasn't there?
That was my brother ; he died in 1955 .
Did he have anything, do you know, of his father ' s?
I don't know.
Well, he must have given his stuff to somebody .
His wife----oh, she was kinda flabby ; she didn't take care of things . What I
think is when he died over there she just took everything he had and burned
i t up.
You haven't seen her since then?
No . Once I had a sked him about some things and he looked in his drawers
and said, ·Sis, I don't know what happened to them.' And I knew she ' s dumped
things in the garbage or burned ' em up .
These were his plans for the plane? Had he kept his plans for the plane?
Yes, I guess he did . He kept everything . He had 'em in his trunk when he
went over there .
You don ' t know what happened to the trunk?
No, nothi ng in it nor the trunk either .
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What about his other two children? Would they have anything of his?
No, they ain't got nothing . My older sister died in California and the
other one died here but it ' s been a long time ago and they didn ' t have anything
of his . You see , he l ived with me after my mother died, until he went to l ive
with his brother, so you see they had nothing of his at their house .
So you don't know what happened to his stuff at all?
We 'll never know .
He went to west Texas---what town was it he went to?
Crawford. Well, they were out in the country cutting ties but it was in
McLennan County .
He was a mechanic---why did he want to cut ties?
He was really a sawmill man, that ' s what he was . That ' s what he'd always done
until he sold his sawmill and started that airplane and then he didn't want to
go back to sawmill work. I think he just started to try something else . It
didn't work out very good . Anyway he stayed about a year and came back . He
couldn't get that airship off his mind so he came back and tried it again,
but after that failure, I never heard him mention it again.
You say he ran a sawmill. When did he move to Pittsburg?
In 1900 . We lived just seven miles from Pittsburg . That ' s where he had
his sa.nnill.
He had a sawmill at Pine, Texas? You lived ther e about seven years , you say?
Yes, then we moved to Pittsburg and he decided to work on his airplane .
Why did he move to Pittsburg---because of t he foundry there?
Yes, because where he worked he had no facilities or tools or nothing, so
he went were he had things t o do with.
How soon after he got to Pittsburg, did he start?
He started as soon as he got there . He first built a little model in one
of our rooms at home . Then when he knew he had just what he wanted, he begun.
What part of the year was that?
Spring of 1901.
Was the Company working on it after he started it or before?
Well, when he built this little one , he built it all by himself but when he
started to build this other one, he showed it and explained to them what it
would do so they formed a company to sell shares to build this motor .
Did they sell all of $20,000 of stock in shares?
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Yes , I thi nk so .
Did they go very fa st or wer e they slow at first?
Yes , they sold them pretty fa st . Everybodyhe knew had confidence in him
and knew that he knew what he was talking about. What hurt him most about
it wa s that later he felt like t hey 'd put thei r money in it and that he had
let ' em down .
What did he do with the little model? Did he keep it?
He tore it up .
Did he make a little model for the second one?
No , I don' t think so . I think he just took his drawings and plans . He
explained his drawings and they all knew it woul d work .
The plane he built in Chicago---did you say it was better?
Yes, it was better . But he never did even have a picture of that .
vlho took the picture that was on the stock certificat es?
I didn 't pay much attention to things like that . I was only about 16 or 17 .
Wa s the foundry in Pittsburg a very big concern?
It wasn ' t very big .
Was Pittsburg a very big place---how many peopl e?
Oh, I don't know--- several thousand, I guess , scatter ed around . The foundry
was an old vreoden building .
Well, there i s a brick one there now . Was that then the only foundry in
the area?
Yes, the only one t her e was .
Did he know Mr . befor ehand, or did he go meet him with the idea
of building the plane?
I don 't think he knew him before we moved t o Pittsburg . He 'd have t o get
something welded together that he couldn't do by hand and he'd go to the
foundry.
Did you know a family by the name of Strasner?
No, I don' t believe I r emember them .
When he was building it , did he like to t alk about the plane?
Yes , but after he tor e it up, you didn't hear him mention it any more .
He just gave it up .
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Did anybody try to get him to make a third one?
If they did , he never did mention it .
Did he think the effort just wasn 't worth it?
I think he felt that he was just too old.to t ry to start over again.
Mary ' s health was bad and he just never said any more about it .
He hadn ' t been back from Chicago too long until she got sick.
He died in Marshall , didn ' t he? What did he die of? A cerebal hemorrhage?
He had a brain hemorrhage but it was caused from high blood pressur e.
But we didn 't know anything about blood pressur e then , but the Dr. t old
my brother a long time after that--it was caused by high blood pressure .
Was it sudden?
Got sick Sunday and Tuesday he died .
Was he a strong man?
Oh, yes, he was a strong man . 250 Ibs, over 6 ft . tal l .
Was he well liked?
Everybody loved him. I don ' t guess he ever had an enemy in the world .
He was one of the best men, I think, that ever lived . He was a pr eacher,
all right , but he not only preached it , he lived it . I never saw him do
one thing t hat wasn ' t as it should be .
Was his plane insured?
No, it wasn ' t insured . Don ' t think the second one was . He never got any
money .
Did he ever get anything out of his inventions?
No , not a thing.
Well, do you think there ' s anything we ' ve forgotten?
I told you---I 'm old and my mind doesn ' t work. (Laugh) . Some other time I
might think of something but I can't think now.
Well, thank you , Ma ' am. I appreciate your talking with me .
I ' ve enjoyed it, too .
This interview "ras given between 2 :00 and 3 :30 i n the afternoon at Mrs . Gordon ' s
address in Longview, Texas to John Fox on September 1, 1967.

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~nterview with Mrs. C. F . Gordon , 203~ E . Edgefield , Longview , Texas
(Step daughter of Reverend Burrell Cannon) I 9~ 7
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My name is Mrs. C. F . Gordon and I live at 203~ E. Edgefield
and I am the step daughter of Rev . B . Cannon. He married my
mother when I was six years old. He was the most wonderful
father in the world. He went to work on the airplane. He
studied about ten years before he went to work on it. He
got all of it out of the Bible. He was a good Christian man.
He was a minister when he married my mother. She wasn't a
Christian but became one not long after that. I had three
step sisters and a half brother and they all younger than I am.
He never introduced me as his step daughter, I was his oldest
daughter. He sold his saw mill to work on the plane. He
didn ' t have enough money so he sold shares and incorporated it ,
it get money to finish it. He finished the model and took it
to Texarkana and was on the way to St . Louis with it , to try
and raise capital . A storm came up and destroyed it so he had
to go to work and my mother ran a boarding house. We moved
to Longview and started another company . They sent him to
Chicago to build the airplane . The plane was a success but
they wouldn't let him take it up and someone else took L up.
He ran into a telephone pole and destroyed it , s o he didn ' t
have any money to do anything with it . He started an
invention on the cotton picker boll weevil destroyer. That's
what he was working on when he died . He never failed in any
of his inventions . .
Where did he die ?
Marshall, at my brothers home
Is he buried in Marshall?
No , he is buried here in Longview, in Gracehill Cemetery.
He and my mother both are buried there.
When did he marry your mother? Do you remember the year?
1890 .
You were around when he built the plane?
Yes. I was about sixteen years old and we lived in Pittsburg. ----- How long did he spend in he actual constructon of the plane?
He started it in 1901 and I Qon_'J; .. know bOILJQrrK_tLtook to
Gomplete it because LW_8Jl . TI1.?r!,~.~_d and has a family of my-own.
Was it about a year?
Yes.
Do you remember anything about him trying to fly.
No. He just built a model in Pittsburg and built the real
one in Chlcago , but it ,;jas-ere-strayed.
When he built the plane in Pittsburg, he never intended
for it to fly?
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No . That was a model . He never put the engine in it there.
Are there any remains of the plane around now?
No.
When it wrecked in Texarkana, what did they do with the parts ,
did they throw them away then?
Yes . We did save the wheel .
The plane was built on the second floor o~ Thorsdale's foundary?
Did you get a chance to took at it?
Yes. I watched him build it because we lived close to the
foundry .
What type of wood did they use in the plane?
I don't believe he used wood . He used some kind of cloth for
the wings and steel to hold them up with .
You think the construction was all metal?
Yes , all but the cloth used for the wings .
Fox: How was he supposed to fly in the model? WAS he laying down
or sitting?
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He was sitting. The airplane was supposed to have compressed
air so it would come down easy .
ADout how many wheels did it have?
Four, two on each side . The middle wheel propelled it and
made it go back and forth .
What was the middle wheel like?
It was like tbe others but smaller.
Was it a gear?
I guess. I only saw the model and never the real plane.
How long was the model:
'--- ----.. ----".
ABout 20 feet •
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Was it a bi plane?
Yes .
When he finished the model, how did he get it out of the
building?
They had to take the front of the building down.
Did they lower it with block and tackle?
Yes.
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Fox: They put it on a flat car?
Gordon: Yes. He was going to take it to St . Louis but got as
far as Texarkana because my mother has a sister living there .
The storm tore it up and we were all stranded there.
Fox: Do you remember what time of year it was? (when the plane
was wrecked ?)
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It was in the Epring sometime . It was about April or May.
That was probabaly in 1903?
Yes.
What did he do when it wrecked?
He had to go to work . He went to work for a saw mill , in
Texarkana.
How long did you live in Texarkana?
We lived there from 1903 to 1905.
Then where did you go?
We went to Mineola and he remained in the saw mill business.
We went to West Texas and he cut ties for the railroad . We
stayed there about a year and a half.
Fox: What year was it~
Gordon: About 1907 . Then we moved back to Longview in 1908 . He started
to work on the plane again .
Fox: When was the wFeck in CHicago?
Gordon: I don't know. I guess it was about 1908 or 1909 .
FOK: Do you remember the name of the company that was formed
here in Longview?
Gordon: No.
Fox: Do you remember anyone who was an officer in be company?
Gordon: I don 't remember.
Fox: Do you remember whFFe in Chicago he went?
Gordon: No. I don 't believe he ever told us . He just went to a
machine shop.
Fox: Do you remember the name of the pilot who flew the plane?
Gordon: I belive it was Wilder . I don;t know the first name.
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When he came back to Longview in 1910, when did he go to work
for Guy McKay's machine shop?
I believe it was as soon as he came back.
started making the cotton picker machine.
That's when he
Fox: When did he go to Marhsall?
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In 1921 or 1922. He went there about a year before he died.
Why did he go to Marhsall?
He went to look at other machine shops.
Do you know Rowe Locket? Didn't he help build the plane?
Yes, I know him . His sister is still living . Rowe was the
main machanic teat helped them all the way through.
What did Rowe Locket do after the plane crashed?
I don't know.
Did you leave Pittsburg in 1903 and didn't come back?
Yes.
Were the people in Pittsburg all behind it? When he
for Texarkana, you said it was to raise more money.
couldn't get it from the people in Pittsbrug?
left
He
THey didn't have a lot of money. They raised enough to
build bhe model , but they didn't have enough to build
the air plane so he went to St . Louis .
The only people that invested money were from Pittsburg?
Or did they come from out of state?
Just pittsburg people .
He just went to Pittsburg to look at the machine shops?
Yes .
Are th~e any people still alive that would remember the
plane and the foundry?
Rowe Locket's sister is the~ I know.
Was his son alive at the time of the flight? He was born
aftEr wards?
They
left
body
Tapp
didn't have any children .
there . There were six of
told me they were all dead
is still living .
THis one
the Tapp
but one .
Wasnt Mr . Tapp president of the company?
Jim Tapp.
was born after we
brothers. Some
I be lieve Lon
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Fox: Do you remember the date he was born in Coffeeville? (Mississippi!
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April 16 , 1848
Does he have any kinfolk in Coffeeville?
He had two nieces , one lived in California and the other in
Mississippi . They are both dead . He didn't have any brothers
or sisters .
He went to college in Clinton , ~;ississippi?
Yes .
When was he first married?
He was 21 when he f irst married .
Your m~ther was his fourth wife?
Yes , and he married her in 1890 .
Fox : All the wives died. He never was divorceH?
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No . he never was.
When did your mother die?
In 1914 , in Longview.
Fox: He built the second plane in Chicago?
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Yes .
Do you know any connection with hi. and the Wright brothers?
No , he didn't know them .
Did he ever get a letter from them?
If he did , I never knew about it .
I read that the German government offered $100, 000 for the
petent rights .
He wouldn't have sold them if they'd have offered him a
million doCblars .
He did get an offer from the German government?
Yes.
When was this? Was it before it was finished?
Yes, I believe it was after we came back here . It was never
the money he was after he just wanted to prove he could do it .
The one in Chicago did f ly , didn't it?
Yes , they took it up . It would have been a success but they
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ran inot a tower or telephone pole.
Fox: Was it an accident or did he do it on purpose?
Gordon: I don't know. Illy father was very honest.
Fox: How did the German government offe r him the money? Was i t
in person or letter.
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I think it was by letter . A man in the United States
represented the German government.
Hhere did he write from?
I believe Washington.
Do you have the letter?
No.
Did he save the letter?
I don' t kno~l.
Did he write back to the people?
I guess so . That's the only one I know about. He took out
patents for everything on the model. The second plane was
just like the first one except bigger. He took out the
patent for the second plane in 1901. He didn;t get his foreign
patents until a year later .
Did he have several congregations?
Yes, he has several churches .
Can you give me the names of some of them?
close to Gilmer , Masodina near Longview , and
in Pittsburg . He preached out in the country .
Do you know when he started his ministry?
No. I think he went to a stmiMary .
How did he get interests6 in machanics .
I don't know . I don ' t know what s ~minary he went to .
Fox: Do you know someone who might know?
Gordon: No . Everyone is dead now .
Fox: Are any of the machinics still alive?
Gordon: No .
Fox: Is guy McKay dead? Did he have a son?
Gordon: Yes . He didnt have any children .
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His second wife is still living, but s he wouldn't know.
Was he an only child?
No . He had a step brother. He had thr ee brothers I know of .
He ha s a half sister .
Are they living around here?
No. The neice was his br othe r s daughter . She went back
to Mississippi.
Then the one who married in California----that was his sister's daughter;
she married a Lawrence .
How big was you family? His sons and daughters ---how big was it eventually?
He had just two daughters and a son and a step-daughter, of course .
Did he have sons and daughters by a former marriage when he married your mother?
No, they ,,,ere by my mother . You know, my father died ;,hen I was 5 years old.
Then your mother was the only one he had children by----are they still alive?
I'm the only one of the family alive, and they were all younger than I am .
There was one living in Marshall, wasn't there?
That was my brother ; he died in 1955 .
Did he have anything, do you know, of his father ' s?
I don't know.
Well, he must have given his stuff to somebody .
His wife----oh, she was kinda flabby ; she didn't take care of things . What I
think is when he died over there she just took everything he had and burned
i t up.
You haven't seen her since then?
No . Once I had a sked him about some things and he looked in his drawers
and said, ·Sis, I don't know what happened to them.' And I knew she ' s dumped
things in the garbage or burned ' em up .
These were his plans for the plane? Had he kept his plans for the plane?
Yes, I guess he did . He kept everything . He had 'em in his trunk when he
went over there .
You don ' t know what happened to the trunk?
No, nothi ng in it nor the trunk either .
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What about his other two children? Would they have anything of his?
No, they ain't got nothing . My older sister died in California and the
other one died here but it ' s been a long time ago and they didn ' t have anything
of his . You see , he l ived with me after my mother died, until he went to l ive
with his brother, so you see they had nothing of his at their house .
So you don't know what happened to his stuff at all?
We 'll never know .
He went to west Texas---what town was it he went to?
Crawford. Well, they were out in the country cutting ties but it was in
McLennan County .
He was a mechanic---why did he want to cut ties?
He was really a sawmill man, that ' s what he was . That ' s what he'd always done
until he sold his sawmill and started that airplane and then he didn't want to
go back to sawmill work. I think he just started to try something else . It
didn't work out very good . Anyway he stayed about a year and came back . He
couldn't get that airship off his mind so he came back and tried it again,
but after that failure, I never heard him mention it again.
You say he ran a sawmill. When did he move to Pittsburg?
In 1900 . We lived just seven miles from Pittsburg . That ' s where he had
his sa.nnill.
He had a sawmill at Pine, Texas? You lived ther e about seven years , you say?
Yes, then we moved to Pittsburg and he decided to work on his airplane .
Why did he move to Pittsburg---because of t he foundry there?
Yes, because where he worked he had no facilities or tools or nothing, so
he went were he had things t o do with.
How soon after he got to Pittsburg, did he start?
He started as soon as he got there . He first built a little model in one
of our rooms at home . Then when he knew he had just what he wanted, he begun.
What part of the year was that?
Spring of 1901.
Was the Company working on it after he started it or before?
Well, when he built this little one , he built it all by himself but when he
started to build this other one, he showed it and explained to them what it
would do so they formed a company to sell shares to build this motor .
Did they sell all of $20,000 of stock in shares?
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Yes , I thi nk so .
Did they go very fa st or wer e they slow at first?
Yes , they sold them pretty fa st . Everybodyhe knew had confidence in him
and knew that he knew what he was talking about. What hurt him most about
it wa s that later he felt like t hey 'd put thei r money in it and that he had
let ' em down .
What did he do with the little model? Did he keep it?
He tore it up .
Did he make a little model for the second one?
No , I don' t think so . I think he just took his drawings and plans . He
explained his drawings and they all knew it woul d work .
The plane he built in Chicago---did you say it was better?
Yes, it was better . But he never did even have a picture of that .
vlho took the picture that was on the stock certificat es?
I didn 't pay much attention to things like that . I was only about 16 or 17 .
Wa s the foundry in Pittsburg a very big concern?
It wasn ' t very big .
Was Pittsburg a very big place---how many peopl e?
Oh, I don't know--- several thousand, I guess , scatter ed around . The foundry
was an old vreoden building .
Well, there i s a brick one there now . Was that then the only foundry in
the area?
Yes, the only one t her e was .
Did he know Mr . befor ehand, or did he go meet him with the idea
of building the plane?
I don 't think he knew him before we moved t o Pittsburg . He 'd have t o get
something welded together that he couldn't do by hand and he'd go to the
foundry.
Did you know a family by the name of Strasner?
No, I don' t believe I r emember them .
When he was building it , did he like to t alk about the plane?
Yes , but after he tor e it up, you didn't hear him mention it any more .
He just gave it up .
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Did anybody try to get him to make a third one?
If they did , he never did mention it .
Did he think the effort just wasn 't worth it?
I think he felt that he was just too old.to t ry to start over again.
Mary ' s health was bad and he just never said any more about it .
He hadn ' t been back from Chicago too long until she got sick.
He died in Marshall , didn ' t he? What did he die of? A cerebal hemorrhage?
He had a brain hemorrhage but it was caused from high blood pressur e.
But we didn 't know anything about blood pressur e then , but the Dr. t old
my brother a long time after that--it was caused by high blood pressure .
Was it sudden?
Got sick Sunday and Tuesday he died .
Was he a strong man?
Oh, yes, he was a strong man . 250 Ibs, over 6 ft . tal l .
Was he well liked?
Everybody loved him. I don ' t guess he ever had an enemy in the world .
He was one of the best men, I think, that ever lived . He was a pr eacher,
all right , but he not only preached it , he lived it . I never saw him do
one thing t hat wasn ' t as it should be .
Was his plane insured?
No, it wasn ' t insured . Don ' t think the second one was . He never got any
money .
Did he ever get anything out of his inventions?
No , not a thing.
Well, do you think there ' s anything we ' ve forgotten?
I told you---I 'm old and my mind doesn ' t work. (Laugh) . Some other time I
might think of something but I can't think now.
Well, thank you , Ma ' am. I appreciate your talking with me .
I ' ve enjoyed it, too .
This interview "ras given between 2 :00 and 3 :30 i n the afternoon at Mrs . Gordon ' s
address in Longview, Texas to John Fox on September 1, 1967.