Seriously now, the word 'progressive' is supposed to mean progressive.

I don't know how you guys feel, but after a while, those elements that might have made some bands progressive for their time now are recycled by bands as if it gives them some novelty that doesn't exist. What do you call this music? It's always called 'prog' but it is not really progressive if you get what I mean.

For example, Dream Theater sparked a whole bunch of imitation bands that wanted nothing but to sound exactly like them, it seems... and I would be rude to name-drop.

Can that really count as progressive music?

I find that if the term 'progressive' is wearing me out, I like to go to avant-garde music sub genres, maybe bands that consider themselves both avant-garde and progressive, or experimental. Otherwise, you end up with a bunch of power metal bands that really want to be Symphony X, or Dream Theater, but lack what makes those bands exciting.

You are such a broken record Colin. Why don't you try and come up with a comment that is progressive and original rather that spouting the same old bullsh*t in every post. Maybe you should start your own prog website. It should be pretty damn easy to maintain given that you would only have to include 4 or 5 bands and you can remove them after you have overlistened to them and no longer consider them progressive anymore.

There is Progressive as a noun, which is the name of something and as a general rule the first letter is often capitalised to emphasis that it is the name of something specific rather than the name of something generic (such as cat for example as opposed to Tiddles the cat) - as with all names it is perfectly acceptible to shorten that as a diminutive, hence we get Prog, which is still a noun and is still the name of the same something.

And there is progressive as an adjective, this is a 'describing word' that we put with a noun to describe, modify or other substantive by limiting, qualifying, or specifying characteristics of the noun, as a general rule unless it is used at the start of a sentence (which would be difficult to do in correct grammar) the first letter of the adjective progressive should never be capitalised. Also, progressive as an adjective should not be shortened at all (ever) as it is the -ive suffix that denotes that it is the adjective form of progress, remove the -ive ending and the word looses its descriptive meaning completely.

Therefore when you describe a tune as being very Prog, you are saying that it belongs in the genre of music known by the noun Prog or Progressive - you are not saying that it is a piece of music that has progressed.

Therefore it is grammatically correct, for example, to describe an artist as a progressive Progressive Rock artist since we are using both the adjective form and the noun form of the word.

Therefore it is musicologically correct for a band or artist to belong in a genre of music known as Progressive as a name (as in Progressive Rock, or Progressive Metal) without their music being described as being progressive as an adjective.

Armed with this basic knowledge of the usage of Progressive as a noun and progressive as an adjective any further discussion on this subject is rendered pointless as any point, comment or opinion can be systematically categorised as using the word progressive either as a noun or an adjective.

Edited by Dean - May 01 2013 at 19:14

"You know what uranium is, right?Itís this thing called nuclear weapons. And other things. Like lots of things are done with uranium. Including some bad things.But nobody talks about that."

You are such a broken record Colin. Why don't you try and come up with a comment that is progressive and original rather that spouting the same old bullsh*t in every post. Maybe you should start your own prog website. It should be pretty damn easy to maintain given that you would only have to include 4 or 5 bands and you can remove them after you have overlistened to them and no longer consider them progressive anymore.

Sure, feel free to search through my posts and see what miniscule percentage of them actually has anything to do with your perception of me. Or, keep spouting the same complaints at anybody with broader perspectives than you.

Besides, Dean just basically made the exact same (correct) assertion that I did and I don't see you lambasting him

I think we should all pay close attention to Dean's post and leave it at that. The word 'progressive' has been debated to death and it seems as if 9/10 of all posts on the subject have paid little to no attention to how this site defines the word.

The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"

I think we should all pay close attention to Dean's post and leave it at that. The word 'progressive' has been debated to death and it seems as if 9/10 of all posts on the subject have paid little to no attention to how this site defines the word.

I could only presume that there are some people out there who want to hear the opinion of individual users, not what's written on that one page of the site ... but usually opinion is a dust-in-the-wind kind of information.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - May 01 2013 at 20:52

"Books were only one type of receptacle where we stored a lot of things we were afraid we might forget. There is nothing magical in them at all. The magic is only in what books say, ... ."

I think we should all pay close attention to Dean's post and leave it at that. The word 'progressive' has been debated to death and it seems as if 9/10 of all posts on the subject have paid little to no attention to how this site defines the word.

I could only presume that there are some people out there who want to hear the opinion of individual users, not what's written on that one page of the site ... but usually opinion is a dust-in-the-wind kind of information.†

The issue is, as I see it, that people are asking a question that is already answered. I think that if people actually read what is on that one page they would not feel the need to bring this topic up so often; and when they do bring it up, we can all have a common foundation for the discussion instead of just expressing opinions and disagreeing about them. This site does not have the only definition of the word 'progressive,' but it does have the one that defines how the word is used here. We don't have to reinvent the wheel every other month.

The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"

I think we should all pay close attention to Dean's post and leave it at that. The word 'progressive' has been debated to death and it seems as if 9/10 of all posts on the subject have paid little to no attention to how this site defines the word.

I could only presume that there are some people out there who want to hear the opinion of individual users, not what's written on that one page of the site ... but usually opinion is a dust-in-the-wind kind of information.†

The issue is, as I see it, that people are asking a question that is already answered. I think that if people actually read what is on that one page they would not feel the need to bring this topic up so often; and when they do bring it up, we can all have a common foundation for the discussion instead of just expressing opinions and disagreeing about them. This site does not have the only definition of the word 'progressive,' but it does have the one that defines how the word is used here. We don't have to reinvent the wheel every other month.

The way you put it - that's a very good point.

"Books were only one type of receptacle where we stored a lot of things we were afraid we might forget. There is nothing magical in them at all. The magic is only in what books say, ... ."

There is Progressive as a noun, which is the name of something and as a general rule the first letter is often capitalised to emphasis that it is the name of something specific rather than the name of something generic (such as cat for example as opposed to Tiddles the cat) - as with all names it is perfectly acceptible to shorten that as a diminutive, hence we get Prog, which is still a noun and is still the name of the same something.

And there is progressive as an adjective, this is a 'describing word' that we put with a noun to describe, modify or other substantive by limiting, qualifying, or specifying characteristics of the noun, as a general rule unless it is used at the start of a sentence (which would be difficult to do in correct grammar) the first letter of the adjective progressive should never be capitalised. Also, progressive as an adjective should not be shortened at all (ever) as it is the -ive suffix that denotes that it is the adjective form of progress, remove the -ive ending and the word looses its descriptive meaning completely.

Therefore when you describe a tune as being very Prog, you are saying that it belongs in the genre of music known by the noun Prog or Progressive - you are not saying that it is a piece of music that has progressed.

Therefore it is grammatically correct, for example, to describe an artist as a progressive Progressive Rock artist since we are using both the adjective form and the noun form of the word.

Therefore it is musicologically correct for a band or artist to belong in a genre of music known as Progressive as a name (as in Progressive Rock, or Progressive Metal) without their music being described as being progressive as an adjective.

Armed with this basic knowledge of the usage of Progressive as a noun and progressive as an adjective any further discussion on this subject is rendered pointless as any point, comment or opinion can be systematically categorised as using the word progressive either as a noun or an adjective.

I propose to make this the top sticky post and name it "Please read before posting anything about Prog vs progressive"

Progressive music actually does have something to do with actual innovation. Fusing rock with the broader composition of classical represents the farthest that rock can be taken, and the greatest amount of possibilities/variations in the style. It's easier to be original playing prog than any other popular music style (to me this is the most intuitively obvious thing in the world, but some have a hard time with it).

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