Re: Help me understand . . .

Originally Posted by koryp

Versed is a terrible drug to use to kill. The dose is so dependent of the person getting it based on their cardiac output and rate of metabolism. It's really a waste too of you use a high potency narcotic like dilaudid or fentanyl. Phenobarbital was an ideal drug to use, however all this "new morality" by pharmaceutical companies is making it too hard to do one really simple thing well, rub motherfuckers out.

Also the whole being baffled and appalled by the death process is really some weak ass pansy bullshit. It is rarely all peaceful and wonderful with puppies and flower covered hills. Death is gruesome to watch, bodies reject the notion that they stop working. The autonomic response after cardiac and respiratory arrest looks just like it should.

1. Bolus Propofol until unconsciousness/respiratory arrest.

2. Bolus Potassium Chloride until cardiac arrest.

3. Say a prayer for the executioner.

It's not that hard, Oklahoma.

Originally Posted by MotorAve

Careful, while the threats are amusingly clueless, I could probably have this whole board shut down with one phone call.

Re: Help me understand . . .

Originally Posted by koryp

Versed is a terrible drug to use to kill. The dose is so dependent of the person getting it based on their cardiac output and rate of metabolism. It's really a waste too of you use a high potency narcotic like dilaudid or fentanyl. Phenobarbital was an ideal drug to use, however all this "new morality" by pharmaceutical companies is making it too .

Docs have to give me at minimum 3-4 times a normal dose of versed for me to feel anything. They used to do my bronchoscopies under sedation as opposed to general anesthesia and there were several instances where I came to due to not enough of the versed and morphine concoction. They would be hitting me with 30+mg's of morphine on top of the triple dose of versed. Good times.

Edit, Randy bait: shit, I was on 2mg of dilaudid every 2 hours last time I was in the hospital. I would be a hard one to kill via lethal injection.

Re: Help me understand . . .

Originally Posted by JustSteve

Docs have to give me at minimum 3-4 times a normal dose of versed for me to feel anything. They used to do my bronchoscopies under sedation as opposed to general anesthesia and there were several instances where I came to due to not enough of the versed and morphine concoction. They would be hitting me with 30+mg's of morphine on top of the triple dose of versed. Good times.

Edit, Randy bait: shit, I was on 2mg of dilaudid every 2 hours last time I was in the hospital. I would be a hard one to kill via lethal injection.

Fentanyl is 40x stronger than dilaudid. I don't even think there is an injection form of it because it's so potent. Shoot somebody up with 1000 mg of Fentanyl, their respiratory system will be down within 15 minutes flat.

Re: Help me understand . . .

To die completely, yeah it would. Opiate death is not quick, even when it's a LOT of opiate. It's not like in the movies, you slowly--but peacefully--asphyxiate as your breaths just get shallower and shallower.

Re: Help me understand . . .

Originally Posted by thelastgreatman

Fentanyl is 40x stronger than dilaudid. I don't even think there is an injection form of it because it's so potent. Shoot somebody up with 1000 mg of Fentanyl, their respiratory system will be down within 15 minutes flat.

I've been on those damn patches and they did nothing when I broke my rib. My doc always fought prescribing them because he was worried id begin hallucinating and having other issues. Think I was on the 50mcg dose. I was actually excited about getting that out of it, haha.

And yes, there is an injectable form. Have had it post op in the past. Given in very small doses though, measured in mcg as opposed to mg.

Re: Help me understand . . .

Originally Posted by thelastgreatman

To die completely, yeah it would. Opiate death is not quick, even when it's a LOT of opiate. It's not like in the movies, you slowly--but peacefully--asphyxiate as your breaths just get shallower and shallower.

I had major surgery a number of years back, and accidentally self administered too much morpheine (sp?) with a button pump thing. I ended up breathing so infrequently and so shallow that a nurse sat up with me all night and I had fits of panic, waking up gasping after not breathing and panicking because I couldn't breathe. It was scary and not peaceful at all.

Originally Posted by M Sparks

It's all riding on this. You've got big dreams to ride to the top of the Flash Mob world. Well internet fame costs. And right now is when you start paying for it...in sweat.

Re: Help me understand . . .

Originally Posted by thelastgreatman

Fentanyl is 40x stronger than dilaudid. I don't even think there is an injection form of it because it's so potent. Shoot somebody up with 1000 mg of Fentanyl, their respiratory system will be down within 15 minutes flat.

There is injectible fentanyl. It's in mcg though. Injecting them with that much wouldn't take that long. It would be a race between the respiratory depression and hypotension that would kill them.

Re: Help me understand . . .

Yes, it's short acting but apnea is easily induced even at "therapeutic" doses, never mind a generously calculated overdose.

Vein patency should never be an issue when the state decides to end the life of one of it's citizens.

Yet in at least three less that ideal killings that I recall it has been suspect or outright cited as the cause. I think a grand for a couple of PICC insertions or a nice TLC is in order, but as you know, the current climate of disdain by the healthcare community for participating in capital punishment does not exactly encourage the brightest minds to take part in the planning and execution of the execution.

I don't necessarily think the old Barb/Succ/kcl method was perfect but it was effective. Fucking pansies.

Re: Help me understand . . .

There is injectible fentanyl. It's in mcg though. Injecting them with that much wouldn't take that long. It would be a race between the respiratory depression and hypotension that would kill them.

There's not enough redundancy in this. You sound like you know at least enough about these drugs to know that some people can ride out the respiratory and hemodynamic depression and recover enough to prolong the dying process to the point of causing disturbance for the audience or worse, simply start spontaneous respiration and just hang in there. I've seen up to 300 mcgs metabolized by a patient in less than 10 minutes to the point that spontaneous respirations returned. I have no problem imagining a cockroach out there that could take a gram and come up smiles after a while. Killing should always be done without doubt.

Re: Help me understand . . .

Re: Help me understand . . .

Maybe they should just shoot them in the head, like someone said earlier. I am completely against capital punishment, but if they are going to do it, they should do it as quickly and painlessly as possible. This latest botched death was so awful.

Re: Help me understand . . .

Originally Posted by koryp

There's not enough redundancy in this. You sound like you know at least enough about these drugs to know that some people can ride out the respiratory and hemodynamic depression and recover enough to prolong the dying process to the point of causing disturbance for the audience or worse, simply start spontaneous respiration and just hang in there. I've seen up to 300 mcgs metabolized by a patient in less than 10 minutes to the point that spontaneous respirations returned. I have no problem imagining a cockroach out there that could take a gram and come up smiles after a while. Killing should always be done without doubt.

Yeah a gram "should" kill almost everyone, but there are always exceptions. That's why my ideal cocktail would be Fent/ketamine to snow them long enough for the sux and kcl to do the job.

Re: Help me understand . . .

Originally Posted by amyzzz

Maybe they should just shoot them in the head, like someone said earlier. I am completely against capital punishment, but if they are going to do it, they should do it as quickly and painlessly as possible. This latest botched death was so awful.

Re: Help me understand . . .

If you want to read a recent account of a firing squad execution, Utah has you covered. It sounds pretty horrifying in all of its clinical detail to me, and reinforces my belief that there's no decent way for the state to kill one of its citizens.

Re: Help me understand . . .

Originally Posted by TomAz

BBBBBBMMMMMMMMMZZZZZFDLKFDKKKKKKKKK WHAT IF YOUR SISTER WERE RAPED DKKKKKKKKKKKSDLKSR

Now Tom has summed up (very effectively) why it takes four weeks in con law 1 for the teacher to explain the modus ponens form he showed us earlier. Because, every time you try to explain something using logic, another person presents a conditional or hypothetical anecdote. Examples include: ONE TIME A POLICE OFFICER KICKED MY FRIEND IN THE FACE OUTSIDE THE ABORTION CLINIC SO ROE V WADE WASN'T RESPECTED

AC/DC and Steely Dan? Why not just get a Don Henley project on the poster so my dad can bring his R/V, his fourth wife, and make a day out of the damn thing?