i dont know if this is true...cesar has done a wonderful job of showing its not the dog its the owner and hes certainly tried to educate people about pits, hes big on rescuing and spay/neuter education...he usually works with whatever methods the owner is using and then shows them with just their energy how they dont need the devices for control

I was going to keep my trap shut but I may as well offer my opinion anyway. I'm all for positive reinforcement when a dog ISN'T trying to kill something. The owner created this problem with this dog and the dog needs to stop trying to kill the cat now, not a month from now.

Everyone bashes this guy yet he can have 15 dogs turned out together with little problem, and yet I know people who can't even keep two dogs in the same room together. I feel bad for the dog because the way they went about it is pretty mean - pretty much for the benefit of TV and not the benefit of the dog, however I would feel differently if he was shocking the crap out of a dog because it wouldn't lay down or heel or something. This dog wants to get the cat and it is something that should've have been taken care of the first time the dog took an interest in it.

The thing that irritates me is that from shows like this people think they can just go purchase an e-collar, shock the crap out of their dog and think they're doing it right.

Anyway I know I'm the odd man out. I'm not looking to argue AT ALL, I respect what you all are saying, this is just my take.

plebayo wrote:I was going to keep my trap shut but I may as well offer my opinion anyway. I'm all for positive reinforcement when a dog ISN'T trying to kill something. The owner created this problem with this dog and the dog needs to stop trying to kill the cat now, not a month from now.

Everyone bashes this guy yet he can have 15 dogs turned out together with little problem, and yet I know people who can't even keep two dogs in the same room together. I feel bad for the dog because the way they went about it is pretty mean - pretty much for the benefit of TV and not the benefit of the dog, however I would feel differently if he was shocking the crap out of a dog because it wouldn't lay down or heel or something. This dog wants to get the cat and it is something that should've have been taken care of the first time the dog took an interest in it.

The thing that irritates me is that from shows like this people think they can just go purchase an e-collar, shock the crap out of their dog and think they're doing it right.

Anyway I know I'm the odd man out. I'm not looking to argue AT ALL, I respect what you all are saying, this is just my take.

Just like using a clicker and a head halter, or a prong collar and corrections, there is a correct way to use the equipment, and a fair way to use the equipment.

There is also the matter of..."WILL THE OWNER BE ABLE TO DO THIS?" Regardless of whether or not the e-collar was used properly...it wasn't explained to the owner, at least not on the film that was shown. If you're going to use equipment, use it properly and explain HOW to use it well. That owner was in over her head, with a strong dog that REALLY wanted to eat her cat. Do you really think it's all going to end well after he leaves...really?

And yeah, sorry my back goes up a bit when people say things like "I'm all for positive reinforcement when a dog ISN'T trying to kill something"...because if you really understand how the science behind the training works, you'd see that if you're doing things properly...you can use +R for dogs like this. Is it quite as fast and easy...nah, but will the dog truly understand down the road...yes. Right now, do you REALLY think the dog understands what just happened? I'm betting no...the dog understands that a horrible pain comes when CM stands in that room, and the cat is in a carrier...will that dog carry that over to times when CM is gone and the cat is racing across the room?

I'm a trainer that uses positive reinforcement. I have six dogs that all live peacefully out in the house together. I have times where I'm boarding up to 20 dogs, that are all loose in the yard/house, and they all get along. I even have two reactive dogs that visit for daycare on Wednesdays...they come and hang out with my guys all day. So where's my frickin' TV show? Trouble is, it's not sensational, it's not flashy and fun to watch...

"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw

plebayo wrote:I was going to keep my trap shut but I may as well offer my opinion anyway. I'm all for positive reinforcement when a dog ISN'T trying to kill something. The owner created this problem with this dog and the dog needs to stop trying to kill the cat now, not a month from now.

I agree with you - except for the second that e-collar is off, or as soon as the dog realizes that mom isn't going to deliver the same level of correction that CM is giving... that cat is dead.

When the cat is hissing and swatting at the dog, and the dog is being shocked at the same time that is the classic "the aggression may get worse because the dog perceives it coming from the cat." Thing. It's the same argument used against using a prong collar on a dog that is dog aggressive - when the timing is bad everything gets bad.

If the cat was minding her own business it would be one thing, but it is not - and to make matters worse, CM then puts the cat in a crate and allows the dog to torment it further.

Everyone bashes this guy yet he can have 15 dogs turned out together with little problem, and yet I know people who can't even keep two dogs in the same room together.

I feel bad for the dog because the way they went about it is pretty mean - pretty much for the benefit of TV and not the benefit of the dog, however I would feel differently if he was shocking the crap out of a dog because it wouldn't lay down or heel or something. This dog wants to get the cat and it is something that should've have been taken care of the first time the dog took an interest in it.

Why? All this dog learned was "when I get near the cat horrible pain starts." When e-collars are used for rattle snake proofing, they do the same thing; the dog gets a full blast shock for even looking in the general direction of a snake. But that doesn't matter because most people don't want their dog to peacefully coexist with a snake. This woman wants her dog and cat to tolerate each other... however, I can guarantee that they have far less love for each other now than they did before CM visited.

The thing that irritates me is that from shows like this people think they can just go purchase an e-collar, shock the crap out of their dog and think they're doing it right.

Yup.

Anyway I know I'm the odd man out. I'm not looking to argue AT ALL, I respect what you all are saying, this is just my take.

If the cat was a non-active participant this would have been different. However, the cat was quite active and that makes a big difference.

Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.

plebayo wrote:I was going to keep my trap shut but I may as well offer my opinion anyway. I'm all for positive reinforcement when a dog ISN'T trying to kill something. The owner created this problem with this dog and the dog needs to stop trying to kill the cat now, not a month from now.

Everyone bashes this guy yet he can have 15 dogs turned out together with little problem, and yet I know people who can't even keep two dogs in the same room together. I feel bad for the dog because the way they went about it is pretty mean - pretty much for the benefit of TV and not the benefit of the dog, however I would feel differently if he was shocking the crap out of a dog because it wouldn't lay down or heel or something. This dog wants to get the cat and it is something that should've have been taken care of the first time the dog took an interest in it.

The thing that irritates me is that from shows like this people think they can just go purchase an e-collar, shock the crap out of their dog and think they're doing it right.

Anyway I know I'm the odd man out. I'm not looking to argue AT ALL, I respect what you all are saying, this is just my take.

I didn't see the whole episode, just the clip Erin posted... but I still find it pretty disturbing. I have never "taught" my dogs that the cats are not to be eaten/chased/killed by a. trapping a cat in a carrier w/no way out and practically shoving the dog in its face, and b. then inflicting severe pain/punishment on the dog for showing interest in the cat. I don't get that kind of "training", but I bet that some viewers/fans will run out and buy an e-collar to try and imitate that method w/their pets. Disclaimer of not doing this at home my ass... people don't read those.Cesar, on the average show, has three cases and solves them in an hour... actual timelines are shown in very, very small print, if at all.It gives the illusion that real-live training can be done in a matter of minutes, and isn't a life-long every-day on-going process that requires commitment and patience.And the constant "domination theory"... makes me wanna scream.I think most dogs don't want to actually dominate their owners... it's more a combination of lack of consistant training and the bad manners/habits that the dog aquires as a result.The last few episodes I did watch featured people who couldn't get their dogs to walk on-leash, couldn't keep them off the furniture, yadda... yadda... yadda. Those are fundemental basic good manners every responsible dog owner should be able to teach - if you're that helpless and you need Cesar w/his magic wand... maybe you should get a gold fish instead of a dog.

As for the dog and the cat in that clip... there is always some form of crate/rotate available to that woman while she teaches the dog that the cat is off limits. The house looked fairly big and baby-gating off a room for the cat is a no-brainer, IMO.'Cause, really - if Ican figure it out, anyone can.

Apart from my feelings about how the animals were treated in this video, I am quite angered by what I perceive as false advertising. All this talk about using your energy and then trying to hide the use of an e-collar? If you're gonna use it, come right on out and be honest about it. Maybe I'm just jaded or something but when I see someone hide one thing I'm pretty sure they are hiding other things as well.

I also don't think the e-collar was necessary in this situation. Like was already said, it can certainly make the situation worse. Bleck...just leaves me with a disgusted feeling after watching it.