Page number is directly related to retarded statements and actions by the elites at rt.com and a few of the so-called fans. If this goes 65 pages for two threads over one year, that should say something.

Face it - the topic would never have gotten as long as it's gotten if not FOR PEOPLES THAT ARE WRITINGS SO MUCH STUPIDS and retarted tihgns dat i now manE lessoners are gona want to reed. Becaz you know that INFORMATIONS OF THIS SORTS IS RARE TO WAITING PATIENT RISING SHADOW.

There really can't be a debate if the focal point really isn't active beyond the fanboy level on a regular basis. But, if the spreading sentiment that "it's the fans that keep Robotech alive," is true, they're the real stewards of the franchise these days. That means they should be really careful how they portray themselves since to them this is serious business, and with HG being inactive, the loud, prominent ones are what newcomers and casual outsiders will observe the most online after the PowerPoint presentations they see from the convention tour. They want to be treated seriously as experts in whatever field they claim? Then it shouldn't be surprising to them if they get scrutinized on a daily basis for what they say and do, just like how professionals are treated.

"The HG and Robotech Debates: ITS IN THE HANDS OF THE FAN, GANGBUSTERS!!!"

There really can't be a debate if the focal point really isn't active beyond the fanboy level on a regular basis. But, if the spreading sentiment that "it's the fans that keep Robotech alive," is true, they're the real stewards of the franchise these days. That means they should be really careful how they portray themselves since to them this is serious business, and with HG being inactive, the loud, prominent ones are what newcomers and casual outsiders will observe the most online after the PowerPoint presentations they see from the convention tour. They want to be treated seriously as experts in whatever field they claim? Then it shouldn't be surprising to them if they get scrutinized on a daily basis for what they say and do, just like how professionals are treated.

"The HG and Robotech Debates: ITS IN THE HANDS OF THE FAN, GANGBUSTERS!!!"

Agreed, they should be careful. If anything, Robotech fans shouldn't put up with lunacy dictating how their fanbase goes. Most seem either content with it, or don't care enough, and it's unfortunate. To have people represent you in a fanbase, especially in the manner that has been demonstrated is embarassing. The ones that actually did care how they were represented by the ignorant few are pretty much banned. Common knowledge, no doubt, but you'd think the fans would care a bit more. That says much more about the state of their union than the ignorant few. Not only that, but HG seems content in their lackluster status, probably banking on word of mouth tactics to appear as though so much is going on. Toynami is the only company that makes a real product for HG, and look how small and really insignificant that is. Why does the RT elites even try to compare RT to Macross? Yes, the tie in 85 with Robotech, but other than that, there's nothing that keeps these together. I don't wanna beat the dead horse anymore, so, I'm gonna comment on more stupidity when it arises. I'll wait a couple hours for one of us to find it, LOL

Harmony Gold has tried to expand the RT-Universe a couple different times, but the only attempt that held any real promise was 'Robotech: The Sentinels' (And even the idea of 'promise' in this expansion is heavily debatable), but that fell through because of Matchbox pulling out of a toy deal, I think.

Beyond that, you have many different comic series coming out in the '90s, and the utter failure that was 'Robotech 3000'. After that, there was the whole series of crap surrounding 'Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles', which was hailed as a great success because it won an award at the Cannes Film Festival (Never mind that it was the only entry in that catagory), and supposedly, it was a huge financial success for Harmony Gold (Even though the production budget was extremely small to begin with).

Ultimately, it can be argued (quite successfully) that every time HG tried to continue the RT story, they met with abject failure. The novels, comics, artbooks, and other published material surrounding all the main animated stuff are all contradictory, and most have been relegated to non-canon status after a major retcon by HG's new management some time ago.

I'm not clear about all the minute details, but others on here are. They can fill you in on the details.

Forgive my ignorance, i had no idea that HG actually tried to expand their franchise. Its just that in the UK theres is absolutley no mention of robotech anywhere. It wasn't even in the "top 100 cartoons of all time" on channel 4 a few years back (simpsons was no.1).

It seems HG don't treat or listen to the fans all that well if they are willing to disregard all the material thats been established. The least they could have done is relegate it to some sort of alternate universe.

I don't wanna beat the dead horse anymore, so, I'm gonna comment on more stupidity when it arises. I'll wait a couple hours for one of us to find it, LOL

I don't know if I'll be able to keep doing this for another whole year if nothing significant is going to happen anyway. If 2010 is most likely going to look like 2007, 08, and 09, the job is mostly done now. Best to just provide a link to what the whole situation amounts to and let every action from the usual gang support it on a regular basis. They'll all do the work for me by just going on and on and on since they never seem to change. They've been doing this for YEARS with no real results.

Forgive my ignorance, i had no idea that HG actually tried to expand their franchise. Its just that in the UK theres is absolutley no mention of robotech anywhere. It wasn't even in the "top 100 cartoons of all time" on channel 4 a few years back (simpsons was no.1).

Just goes to show... virtually none of the information provided by Harmony Gold is in any way reliable and should always be treated as extremely suspect until validated by other, more trustworthy sources. It's actually kind of funny that you should mention Robotech being a nonentity in the UK, when a year or two ago they were making a HUGE deal out of the show being briefly mentioned in some allegedly prominent British sci-fi magazine. I guess it comes as no surprise that once again Harmony Gold (and MEMO in particular) blew something minor completely out of proportion to produce the illusion that RT isn't a completely forgotten clusterfart of poor decisions.

QUOTE (kung flu @ Jan 10 2010, 05:07 PM)

It seems HG don't treat or listen to the fans all that well if they are willing to disregard all the material thats been established. The least they could have done is relegate it to some sort of alternate universe.

Actually, it's kind of a messy situation on that front. While Tommy did effectively make all the old comics, novels, and whathaveyou non-canon when he rebooted the continuity in 2001, he used some weasel words to get around actually saying that he'd declared fifteen years of Robotech a dead loss. I guess the best analogy to describe it would be "Schrodinger's narrative". All the stuff apart from the "original 85" and Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles are the "Secondary Continuity" sources, which can fit into the story so long as they don't contradict anything. Of course, this's just a roundabout way of saying everything but the new comics is non-canon, but the awkward wording leaves it open to all kinds of abuses... like the frequent attempts to force material from the McKinney novels onto the continuity.

In practice, they really can't make the licensed merchandise from the late 80s and 90s its own continuity because it's so unorganized and so internally contradictory that there's no way to form it into a single, coherent whole. The license just changed hands too often and the licensees took too many drastically different directions with it for it to ever become one universe. About the only licensed products internally consistent enough to constitute their own timeline are the novels, the rest is pretty much a dead loss and would have to be split into at least half a dozen different universes just to keep things consistent (bear in mind that's a lower bound estimate).

How about keeping this thread under 25 pages for the rest of the year.

It might be doable if we all agree to:- pass up posting on this thread during lent, holidays, and weekdays.- keep quotes short and concise- resize large photos to thumbnails for posting- move OT discussions to PMs or [insert name here] thread where its appropriate- type single spaced.- and most important of all post only new and relevant news.

Just goes to show... virtually none of the information provided by Harmony Gold is in any way reliable and should always be treated as extremely suspect until validated by other, more trustworthy sources. It's actually kind of funny that you should mention Robotech being a nonentity in the UK, when a year or two ago they were making a HUGE deal out of the show being briefly mentioned in some allegedly prominent British sci-fi magazine. I guess it comes as no surprise that once again Harmony Gold (and MEMO in particular) blew something minor completely out of proportion to produce the illusion that RT isn't a completely forgotten clusterfart of poor decisions.

Well to be fair its not entirely a nonentity, i've seen the adv dvds on sale which came out two or three years ago and many years ago there were the vhs versons of it by kiseki video. Whether or not they were actually selling well, i don't know, it always seems like the same dvds on the shelf. But in my experience and others in my generation, i've never seen it on TV, never talked about it in my childhood and never seen any toys or merchandise relating to it. I wouldn't mind getting the series just to see the differences myself, but they're selling them at extortionate prices. Where normal dvds are about £7-£12. Their dvds can be as high as £20.

On the dvd boxes it claims to be a huge success and the huge impact it had on the west, but i'm thinking maybe it had impact in the USA only. Anime was an obscure market in the UK and its only about 10 years ago that things have have improved a little. Since Robotech is 20 years old, it can't exactly take credit for introducing anime in the UK at least. The current generation of anime fans grew up watching pokemon, my generation grew up watching transformmers etc.........

Well to be fair its not entirely a nonentity, i've seen the adv dvds on sale which came out two or three years ago and many years ago there were the vhs versons of it by kiseki video. Whether or not they were actually selling well, i don't know, it always seems like the same dvds on the shelf. But in my experience and others in my generation, i've never seen it on TV, never talked about it in my childhood and never seen any toys or merchandise relating to it. I wouldn't mind getting the series just to see the differences myself, but they're selling them at extortionate prices. Where normal dvds are about £7-£12. Their dvds can be as high as £20.

On the dvd boxes it claims to be a huge success and the huge impact it had on the west, but i'm thinking maybe it had impact in the USA only. Anime was an obscure market in the UK and its only about 10 years ago that things have have improved a little. Since Robotech is 20 years old, it can't exactly take credit for introducing anime in the UK at least. The current generation of anime fans grew up watching pokemon, my generation grew up watching transformmers etc.........

LOL!!! That's standard fare from Harmony Gold, taking credit for something that they really didn't do. Sure, they had a role in introducing Macross to the US, but one might hand the grand trophy to stuff like Space Battleship Yamato (Under the name Star Blazers), or Captain Harlock, for 'introducing anime to the west'...

Still, it was a rather specialized niche that RT occupied, along with the previously named titles. Anime wasn't a really recognized medium until we got things like Dragonball-Z, Neon Genesis Evangeion, and the various Gundam series. At least, that's what I remember.

You should see /m/ jump on anybody liking Robotech. It is universally hated there.

It's really funny how deep in denial Robotech fans are about it too... I was accused of lying when some twerp asked "how popular is Robotech these days?" on Robotech.com and I gave an honest answer.

QUOTE (Robelwell202 @ Jan 11 2010, 03:29 AM)

Still, it was a rather specialized niche that RT occupied, along with the previously named titles. Anime wasn't a really recognized medium until we got things like Dragonball-Z, Neon Genesis Evangeion, and the various Gundam series. At least, that's what I remember.

Spot on... Robotech might've "introduced" the few people who watched it to anime back in '85, but by no means did it set the world on fire. It'd pretty much been forgotten by '87, since it spent pretty much its entire televised run being neatly eclipsed by the "Generation 1" Transformers series. Far from being the groundbreaking release Harmony Gold wants to make it out to have been, it was pretty much just a flash in the pan show that exposed its viewers to anime as a serious storytelling medium instead of just a venue for stuff relatively silly stuff like Voltron. If any one title could reasonably be credited with the achievements Harmony Gold is trying to credit to Robotech, building awareness of anime and giving the genre wider appeal in America, it would probably have to be Dragonball Z.

I remember back when I was a kid in the 80's, I had cable TV and distinctly remember never seeing Robotech. This was probably a few years after the final broadcast. I dont think any network was showing it after its final episode in 87.

How about keeping this thread under 25 pages for the rest of the year.

Nah, 65 pages should be enough.

QUOTE (VFTF1 @ Jan 10 2010, 01:08 PM)

Face it - the topic would never have gotten as long as it's gotten if not FOR PEOPLES THAT ARE WRITINGS SO MUCH STUPIDS and retarted tihgns dat i now manE lessoners are gona want to reed. Becaz you know that INFORMATIONS OF THIS SORTS IS RARE TO WAITING PATIENT RISING SHADOW.

and that's the truth.

Pete

Are you trying to channel MEOM1DOMINION? If you are, you're doing a really shitty, I mean perfect job.

Yeah I like how they make Robotech this huge masterpiece that changed the landscape of anime in the US over on the other site. Voltron had a bigger impact, and honestly the show that really opened the door was DBZ, Pokemon, and Sailor Moon because even after Robotech aired anime still wasn't that huge in the states. I have talked to many people in my age range (27+) and most don't remember or never saw the show. I saw it because I was in Germany and they should it all the time on AFN but other than that I don't remember being as big as they make it out to be. Especially when other shows were bigger.

I remember back when I was a kid in the 80's, I had cable TV and distinctly remember never seeing Robotech. This was probably a few years after the final broadcast. I dont think any network was showing it after its final episode in 87.

Up here in the Seattle area, it was relegated to an extremely early Saturday Morning time-slot (6AM) on a channel that specialized in syndicated crap (Channel 22, no longer around).

Finally two people in a row who had a similar experience to mine - namely never having seen the Robotech tv show ANYWHERE on TV while a kid.

I do remember the Palladium books - and to repeat for the zillionth time I really liked them.

However - I guess I can now better understand Robotech fans. They're like Transformers fans who were raped AS CHILDREN rather than having their childhoods raped later by Michael Bay.

That is to say - as much as some TF fans complain about the direction of the franchise recently, we (including myself here since I am one) will ALWAYS have G1 to go back to, and BW if you were into it.

Meanwhile, a Robotech fan grows up, gets nostalgic, but discovers that the show he remembers from childhood was a big fake.

Oh well...

I'm off to browse Robotech.com to look for people to point fingers at and laugh uncontrollably.

Pete "The Bully" Macross PuristTrue Leader of the Macross Purist CultPalpatine of the Macross WebversePuller of StringsSlayer of Bending DugsPOLITEINGLY TO MEMOSposessor of a thousand nicknamesThe Italian StallionThe Dashing DestroyerThe Amazing AmazonThe Master of DisasterApollo Creed

[quote]Why do you zero in on Yamato in your BS crusade against companies which produce Macross merchandise, but it looks like MAV has no problem when discussion turns to Kaiyodo Macross merchandise?[/quote

That's what I want to know too? Last time I mentioned to someone that they should check out Yamato products because they though the Toynamis were horrible I got banned for 2 weeks.

Oh god... I got e-mails from a lurker on Bendo's show telling me to take a listen to his latest offering, which is apparently a two-hour attempt to get under my skin because I dared to offer to devote some space on my server to a RT site for the good people who've been displaced from RT.com and RTX by MEMO and Maverick's serial idiocy. Amusing enough he's accusing me of being in it only for personal gain (he literally accuses me of trying to reshape Robotech in its entirety) while he does what he does for impartial, honest motives (if your bullshit meter isn't pegged by now, it should be). He also accuses us all of being "dumbass liberal white people" elitists who think all Robotech fans are retarded and need to be educated...

All that and I'm not even twenty minutes in... to paraphrase Megatron/Galvatron:

"Podcast, Bendo? This is bad comedy."

EDIT: Oh, and he categorically denies that he is Orguss_Prime, even though it's obvious to everyone and their dog that he is.

I never heard about Robotech until I went to high school in the 2000s. It was on Toonami/Cartoon Network at that time. Unfortunately, I didn't have cable at home and was only able to watch tidbits of anime at my piano teacher's house for a while. I was more interested in Gundam Wing.

But seriously - much as I love Macross...unless you were living in California or Texas or something... you likely didn't see Robotech. At least I didn't.

Pete

Well when robotech was on I don't think I was born yet. My first showing of robotech was renting it at the local video store they had almost all the episodes. I stopped at the end or was it the middle of southern cross.Brothers always said the invid saga was awesome.

Anyway Years pass I buy the complete series set. Watched Macross skipped southern cross went straight to the invid saga.note: If watch it in that order its make some sense and becomes a little better.My bro watched it he even said that SC sucked and he stopped watching after two disc or was it one.

QUOTE (kung flu @ Jan 11 2010, 02:37 AM)

Well to be fair its not entirely a nonentity, i've seen the adv dvds on sale which came out two or three years ago and many years ago there were the vhs versons of it by kiseki video. Whether or not they were actually selling well, i don't know, it always seems like the same dvds on the shelf. But in my experience and others in my generation, i've never seen it on TV, never talked about it in my childhood and never seen any toys or merchandise relating to it. I wouldn't mind getting the series just to see the differences myself, but they're selling them at extortionate prices. Where normal dvds are about £7-£12. Their dvds can be as high as £20.

On the dvd boxes it claims to be a huge success and the huge impact it had on the west, but i'm thinking maybe it had impact in the USA only. Anime was an obscure market in the UK and its only about 10 years ago that things have have improved a little. Since Robotech is 20 years old, it can't exactly take credit for introducing anime in the UK at least. The current generation of anime fans grew up watching pokemon, my generation grew up watching transformmers etc.........

Oh god... I got e-mails from a lurker on Bendo's show telling me to take a listen to his latest offering, which is apparently a two-hour attempt to get under my skin because I dared to offer to devote some space on my server to a RT site for the good people who've been displaced from RT.com and RTX by MEMO and Maverick's serial idiocy. Amusing enough he's accusing me of being in it only for personal gain (he literally accuses me of trying to reshape Robotech in its entirety) while he does what he does for impartial, honest motives (if your bullshit meter isn't pegged by now, it should be). He also accuses us all of being "dumbass liberal white people" elitists who think all Robotech fans are retarded and need to be educated...

All that and I'm not even twenty minutes in... to paraphrase Megatron/Galvatron:

"Podcast, Bendo? This is bad comedy."

EDIT: Oh, and he categorically denies that he is Orguss_Prime, even though it's obvious to everyone and their dog that he is.

Nice to know he's playing the racist card....and us elitists? Hardly.... Do we think Robotech fans are retarded and need to be educated? nope, just him, and a few others but no need to mention names...