Unbelieveable – Palmer to axe the tax, but vote for Carbon trading scheme?

This is not what PUP voters thought they were voting for… but the Big-Bankers will be happy.

Really? Clive Palmer holds the balance of p0wer in the new Australian Senate, due to start on July 1. He’s the coal magnate who made it clear he would get rid of the carbon tax. Now he’s palling up with Al Gore, and saying he’ll vote the tax down but only if we add a clause for an emissions trading scheme that is conditional on China, the US, the EU, Japan and Korea joining in too. Is this a meaningless dead-duck promise that is unlikely to happen, or is this the long softening up for the UN convention in Paris next year, when weak schemes (like China’s, where lots of permits are free) are used as leverage to call in the sub-clauses? I don’t think Gore would be flying out here if there was no chance this legislation would matter. At the very least he will use it to lean on other countries, as evidence that “Australia wants in”. At the very least this is about keeping the illusion of momentum going.

What is going on behind the scenes for this extraordinary turn-around? The man said only two months ago that he thought global warming was natural and 97% of carbon emissions came from nature. Clive the-coal-miner suddenly cares about carbon?

His long-awaited declaration on climate policy clears the way for Mr Abbott’s signature carbon tax abolition, but throws into doubt other aspects of the Coalition’s climate policies.

In a blow to the Abbott government, Mr Palmer said his Palmer United Party would use its decisive four votes in the Senate to block the proposed abolition of the money-making CEFC and would also move to legislate an emissions trading scheme with a starting price of zero dollars. – Sydney Morning Herald.

Reports that Palmer wants an emissions trading scheme. Which is a carbon tax in another form.

What a sell out. But this should cement Palmer’s relationship with the ABC and the Canberra press gallery.

The Greens are now also suggesting they could back an emissions trading scheme, having already helped destroy the prime ministerships of Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard by opposing just that.

also

Palmer’s plan isn’t good, but could be worse.

The very bad news is that Palmer (the coal miner) will vote to keep the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, which lends our money for dodgy green schemes, and the Renewable Energy Target, which forces us to waste money on green power and drives up power bills.

But Palmer’s trading scheme has a useful get-out, although it sets up a dangerous machinery – especially if Labor is returned.

He says he will move an amendment to a bill to abolish the Climate Change Authority that a zero-rated emissions trading scheme be set up, to be operative only when China, the US, the European Union, Japan and Korea have the same. The price, he suggests, will be set at the world price.

At this stage, though, there is no sign the US, Korea and Japan will have any such scheme, and the Chinese plan is for a scheme where permits are likewise free.

Clever Clive. With luck, this scheme will never happen. But Palmer says the carbon tax will go. And that is the main game.

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Rating: 8.5/10 (64 votes cast)

Unbelieveable - Palmer to axe the tax, but vote for Carbon trading scheme?, 8.5 out of 10 based on 64 ratings

Tony will not call a DD Election, not with the polls as they are. Palmer said axing the CT was conditional on introducing an ETS but that it would start at zero until Oz’s main trading partners e.g China, Japan etc set a price – this could take years, ie probably not before the 2016 Fed Election. Palmer is playing a “Game of Seats” not a “Game of Thrones”. It seems he is portraying PUP as an environmentally responsible party – with this strategy it seems to me he is aiming to at least double his number of current Senators (now 3) in late 2016. No doubt Palmer will endorse the axing of the Mining Tax post July 1. As an owner of coal mines Palmer wins with the axing of the MT & the CT, and with an ETS years off he is still a winner, at least in the short term. Having Gore at his side during that press release was an extraordinarily incongruous sight. -

Alarmists must put aside their fear mongering and bedwetting for just a second, and take a good look at these strange and corpulent bed-fellows (now there’s an ugly thought right there, but I digress)!

Both multi- billionaires, both none-too-sincerely pretending to be interested in the welfare of the common man/their constituents, and thus the future stewardship of the planet, but really they are clearly just a couple of morbidly obese, uber-capitalist money-grubbing parasites who would gladly sell their grandmother into prostitution if it meant a few extra bucks in the kitty. The environment, and by extension the future ‘safety’ of the planetary environment, are merely a furphy assigned to redirect as much money back into their over-stuffed wallets at the expense of we poor fools, the dupes who are forced to tolerate them due to their allegedly eminent positions in our political landscape.

Such a stunt, you would think, would twig some of the less brain dead trolls (that means you Philip), to the obviously self-serving, blatant profiteering and the all-too-real potential for incredible, unearned wealth distribution from the 99.9999% to the 0.0001% to be perpetrated in the name of their ’cause’ to the ultimate destruction of the broader society in which we all belong. Yet all such acolytes seem completely and comprehensively on board with the idea of an ETS and a carbon economy controlled by faceless and unaccountable men, seemingly in the naive belief that everything will be magically above board, all will be completely transparent and free from corruption (in spite of the major players being among the most rapacious and amoral entities that the world has ever known), that such schemes are to be invested in by mega-rich yet peace-loving, mung bean eating, flower children, who merely want to frolic in the glistening verdant meadows, commune with the soil and stroll through virgin forests, rather than their more obvious base desires of consigning most of the hard working decent middle class people in society into the gutter or into serfdom, and crush the spirit of society under the jack-boot of crony capitalist & neo-feudalist totalitarianism, while the only virgins they remain interested in are the ones they can serially deflower!

Winston I agree with your comments and my I say your mastery of the English language knows no bounds. Palmer is an opportunist who is stealing votes from swing voters, many of whom are retirees – some of my close “retiree friends” are PUP voters and some of these are ex ALP blue collar workers. They like many of the populace believe that CAGW is real. You can thank the MSM for this indoctrination – they simply don’t get exposed to the other side of the “real” story, ie that Solar is the main driver of Earth’s Climate.

And not only that Winston, but why the Hell did we have to go trucking off to DOHA to politely ask these UNelected UNdemocratic UNreasonable nincompoops for PERMISSION to cut our own bloody trees down?

What was stopping the duly elected Commonwealth and State governments from sending the sycophants and psychopaths in DOHA that 74 thousand hectors of OUR trees were no longer in their stupid list? After all, millions of them are on plantations!

These politicians seem to be lacking some testosterone! Or is it time for the silent majority to get out there en mass and kick some green ass?

This is just getting painful! Is it any wonder people are “Tuning” out and ignoring great swathes of information and news. Just hurry up and collapse already, so we can all move on! The system has reached stale-mate and stagnation. No new vision, no new ideas, just some’ol-same’ol crony crap!

What ww have is Union Labor Green defeated at the election and now seeking revenge against the Coalition by whatever foul means they can think of, aided by a biased ALPBC that is not operating in accordance with its Charter and compliant MSM players all denying Australians the truth and spreading left side of politics propaganda and smearing the government. When mud is thrown some always sticks, Union Labor know this and are not afraid to use the gutter to gather the ammunition.

Meanwhile our nation cannot be governed well because everything the government does is blocked by the hostile Senate, now including the PUPs controlled by a disgruntled former LNP member and donor who tried to get a railway deal done behind closed doors and when refused he threw a hissy fit and left to seek his revenge as a spoiler. His mining business partners in China allege that he used their money for election campaigning.

The situation should anger all intelligent Australians, the government won the last election by a landslide of votes and should have a mandate to get on with business. It inherited a substantial debt plus NBNCo hidden off budget debt, cumulative budget deficits amounting to $128 Billion, a long list of commissions and tribunals duplicating at least in part what government departments are normally responsible for and more major problems.

Government is not a football game, good or bad governments impact on our lives in many different ways and not least being economic prosperity and standard of living and government services and infrastructure. Interest on debt reduces the amount of money available to provide these things as the money is paid out for annual interest bills.

If the situation does not change when the new Senate commences in July there should be a new election of both Houses and unless voters prefer to continue don the path to economic ruin like Greece and all of the other PIIGS nations we must give the Coalition a clear majority and mandate to get on with repairing our problems.

I’m not sure whether the Sky Whale [a.k.a Clive Palmer] is just congenitally stupid or a cunning bastard with a longer term scheme in mind. Carbon Tax or ETS doesn’t matter as both are ridiculous.
Anyone know how the Chinese are going about getting their money back from the bloater?

It’s called ‘winning through the art of intimidation’ – all it boils down to is upping the ante (in this case Gore’s on board with scary eco crazy stuff and will sway the public) and it’s a bluff – Palmer’s end game is Palmer and will probably be no more than slipping in a retrospective tax clause so his companies don’t pay the carbon tax for the last 3 years.

A double dissolution threat would put the cleaner through the lot – especially the newly elected senators that have just got used to the idea of privilege – wait, they all have – the lot…

In your words,Palmer is a “cunning barstard”.
He’s also a vindictive barstard as well.
Palmer is doing nothing but waging war on the Queensland liberal government simply because he believes he is owed for donations made.
Abbott in his defence of that government has put himself firmly in Palmers sights.
He’s latest example is to attempt to instigate a federal senate inquiry into the Queensland government.
This latest bit of rediculous theatre by Palmer is not about global warming.
It’s about nothing more than revenge.
An ETS not only destroyed Rudd and Gillard but does everybody remember the former investment banker and opposition leader Turnbuls support of an ETS.
It is the reason Abbott is prime minister.
No this is not about global warming or at the minute lack of but it is about Palmers twisted quest for revenge and bugger the consequences to the Australian people.

Howard,
Rudd,
Gillard,
Turnbull,
Tony Windsor,
Rob Oakshott, didn’t even bother to stand
All of them were ultimately terminated on some twist of this green slime…. but let’s not stop there, it also factored very heavilly in the defeat of governments in
Queensland,
NSW,
WA,
Victoria,
NT,
Tasmania,
And
SA if it wasn’t for a deal with the devil coalition between Labor and Greens delivering yet another disasterous minority government.

This is a very long list. Clive has to realise that this issue is political poison and the only way to keep his seat is to stay firm on his pre-election position. There is no worming around on this one, members get elected on this issue, and this issue causes those members to be dumped, it causes serving prime ministers to lose not just elections but their seats. This issue has taken down state governments in almost every state, except Canberra. Clive’s meally crew won’t survive any DD election called on this by following Al Gore, not a chance.

TA, put ALL the issues to the senate twice, the CEFC the RET, the CT, the mining tax, and all the budget measures, get them ALL in the DD trigger. The legislation is decided in a joint sitting, put it through then let’s have the DD election, even in the very near impossible event you lose to a man twice named in a Royal Commission into union corruption, at least the greens and the traitorous PUP would be cleaned out of the senate and we might have a functional government, hopefully one with the balls to sort out the economy, and the good sense to terminate this toxic issue once and for all.

PS, for those poll watchers, the polls I don’t think are a good indication outside the election campaign, people use polls to shout displeasure at the government, and there is no doubt the recent budget, neccessary as it is, displeased almost everyone. Australians are not going to vote Labor back while the Carbon Tax or ETS is policy.

As for Al Gore, Mr Abbott please revoke his VISA and deport him for unauthorised working or even terrorism with his climate scare stories, and then ban him from returning for at least 20 years.

It horrifies me to think after six years of country wrecking labors persuit of the mythical global warming “cure”.
That Australia would even contemplate putting them back in charge of the wreck they’ve created.

There is a large segment of the voting public for which ignorance is bliss. Among this segment it would I believe be difficult to find people at all cognisant of the revelations of the Royal Commission, because only News Ltd papers have had any coverage.

So there is a large contingent of voters who would succumb to the propaganda currently issued by the ALP/Green coalition, who are ignorant of the fact that there is no $80bn funding cut. There was never $80bn to cut: just an unfunded ALP promise that was never even legislated under the cover of more borrowing to pay for it. The Coalition is under no obligation to honour the (beaten) Labor Party’s election promises.

The federal government doesn’t run a single school or employ a single teacher, and whilst it administers one small hospital in Latrobe, Tasmania, it doesn’t employ a single nurse or doctor, or run a single hospital anywhere else in the country, either.

At the same time as the Clive and Gorical pony show in the Great Hall, the leader of the opposition was outlining his vision of The Soviet Socialist Republic of Australia to a cheering media mob.

I am thinking it might be time to pull up stakes and return to Canadia.

If he accepts, they will say he’s not serious about removing the tax.
If he doesn’t accept – Labor ( and Clive ) will say he had the opportunity to remove the tax and costs to the consumer and didn’t. It will also make Abbott’s chances even harder in a double dissolution.

I used to think Clive was as mad as a cut snake. Now I think he’s just a snake

Not sure how it all works. Can Abbott get rid of Palmer by waiting for a double dissolution after the new senate is in? It would be a good clear way to show them all the true mandate and the true reason PUP got votes in the first place. Abbott did go to the election stating he would use a DD to get rid of the Carbon Tax. ETS is just another form of it.
Need to change that yellow sticker so it says No ETS either “ELECTION NOW”.

Because of our rediculous preferential voting laws we may well get rid of some or all of the pup senators.
But we’re just as likely to end up with more of the same after any election.
Unless the manipulation of preferential voting is addressed before the next election.
Both labor and the liberals are talking about that change at the minute to make it near impossible for an individual to be elected.
Palmer in the lower house is no threat on his own but his “presence” in the senate is.

No, we won’t, we will be rid of most of the minor voting blocks though the greens will still have a few, a good campaign against the greens will remove most of their senators. Yes there will be minors there, the last seat in each state is a wildcard, but without the voting blocs the wildcards will be just that, an eclectic mix of opinions pro and against on an issue by issue basis. That’s a good thing, ideological intransigence is our enemy, not diversity.

PS on this issue parliamentary votes should have the peer pressure and fear forcibly removed, that can be done by secret voting in parliamentary divisions. Secret votes have been mandated in almost all situations in democracies, how is it that peer pressure and intimidation is permitted to rule the day in the most democratic of all institutions, our Parliament.

Correct. May, might, perhaps, consider, think, discuss, committee, review, concern, input, review again, report, new committee and on and on and on …… We all know the Senate voting system is stupid and counter-productive but hey, this is Oz, let’s not actually do anything visionary ‘cos there’s an election coming up and we can’t risk offending any squeaky wheels. Impotence thy name is Canberra.

Since a piece of legislation passed the House of Reprehensibles and was not passed in the senate, the Prime Minister can request the GG to dissolve both houses after an unsuccessful joint session.
However, the old cow from Devonport doesn’t know how to play poker. The Prime Minister can pick any time between now and November next year to do so. So it is really an advantage for a PM to have that DD trigger in his pocket. He can pull it any time he likes. And as the Royal Commission rolls along, and the Union/ALP is mired deeper in the muck, the polls may indicate that the time is ripe

of course it is not going to happen! He is playing Chakra algore for the fool! He might as well put in there that it is contingent upon Unicorns flying. IN other words, he is showing you how stupid Algore is.

let him have his words. As everyone has noted, there is only one chance in hell of it occurring. And that is when the rivers do not flow, the winds don’t blow, and the skies go away.

“Meeting with the vice-president, someone who is a world authority on that, was able to enlighten me on a number of aspects about climate change which I wasn’t fully familiar with and the importance of it for all Australians,” Mr Palmer said.

“Of course all of us can change our view given more information … and I’m satisfied it is a matter of great concern.

One can accuse Palmer of many things, many not complimentary, but a failure to work the money angle in a deal ain’t one of them. None of his current business interests benefit from a CO2 tax.

What is hypocritical is that he says he’ll abstain from the vote in the Lower House because of vested interests, but he can guarantee the balance in the Upper House to axe the tax. Subtlety is not his strong siut, that’s for sure…

I agree PhilJourdan Palmer has done a small service he has shown up Gore to be a fool. Gore’s support of Palmer’s ETS (with conditions of acceptance by China which will never happen) has outed him as for having no common sense and a publicity seeker. As I read in the Australia will he now sell himself for speeches to small groups of Latte sippers and left wing Gillard supporters?
Another thing note this http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/06/25/the-gore-effect-strikes-downunder/ -the Gore effect is becoming a legend. Where ever Gore goes he brings cool weather. Now a new angle to his legend – getting sucked into making stupid comments adding to his obvious lies.

How is Big Al feeling? Perhaps something like Zhang Jijing felt just after Citic signed the deal to buy a worthless interest in an Australian magnetite mine. I wonder how much Mr Gore is out of pocket.

Well, that was the most confusing press announcement I’ve seen in some time.
I agree with Ian’s view. Clive’s only condition on repealing the Carbon Tax was to ensure energy suppliers would pass the savings back to the consumer . . and I thought that provision was already in place, so that doesn’t look like a problem.
The idea that Clive wants to introduce a conditional ETS seems in stark contrast to his previous position on taxing CO2 altogether . . but hey.
But does anyone think the PUP could actually get something like that together?

Also, Clive is a bit of a media fluzy. He does lap up the attention and with an ego bigger than Ben-Hur, he’d he a handful, I reckon.
But there’s still the weird and sudden appearance of Al Gore . . and congratulating Clive over repealing the carbon tax? . . this makes no sense.
And after the news conference, there was no questions permitted? That’s unbelievable really . . and I just can’t think dinner was so urgent, though I can imagine Clive would have difficulty answering even the most fundamental questions around taxing CO2 . . and barely a couple of paces ahead of Ricky Muir on that score.
The up-side to all this is that Christine Milne is also confused but not happy, so that’s a good sign.
But yes, curiouser and curiouser . . .
Anyway, apparently Clive is having breakfast with Tony Abbott on Thursday.

Mind you, Clive wouldn’t get that through the House either, unless he did a deal, but TA would be crazy to do that deal, so to me that means he will leverage the CT. We need to keep pressure on, if there is a Carbon Tax by next election (normal or DD) then there will be no PUP party. It needs to be clear Colonel Jessop, CRYSTAL clear.

I’m not so sure. I’d like to think what Ian says is right, but the AFR says:

Environment Minister Greg Hunt welcomed the pledge to scrap the carbon price as vindication of the government’s election mandate. He said an ETS “has never been and is not our ­policy” but it would consider the amendments.

The problem is that with the Carbon tax gone – the revenue stream is gone.
If the other Climate Change bodies etc are retained then there is a problem with costs as these bodies were funded from the carbon tax and Tony Abbott then has a bigger budget headache!!

Jo I heard Hunt say that last night but considering an ETS to actually agreeing to put the mechanism in place to instigate one.
Affectively giving labor a big stick to belt the begeezus out of the coalition if they were to win the next election is in my opinion a bridge to far.
If that mechanism were “in place” labor in power would not hesitate to use it and damn the consequences to Australia’s economy.
The CO/2 tax under handedly introduced by Gillard and co. against all common sense is clear evidence of that.
Abbotts opposition to an ETS is THE reason why he is prime minister.

Jo, I do not think Abbot or the Libs or Nats will accept the thought of an ETS (except that fool Turnbull). It would be giving a free kick to Labor & the Greens. If the removal of the Carbon Tax does not go through it will stay on the books until Palmer changes his mind. The Government will pursue Palmer to pay his share and continue to blame Labor and the Greens, plus PUP, for higher unemployment, the higher electricity prices and lack of investment.
Just noted that BORAL are stopping production at the Maldon works due to high costs (including the Carbon tax)and due to lower cost imports. The carbon tax just sends jobs overseas and also sends the (unharmful) CO2 emissions overseas for no benefit to Australia.

its the Helegian Dialectic in full cry – create a thesis, then an anti-thesis, then achieve the desired-all-along-outcome of synthesis.

In many ways its no different to the Australia Card – Tax File Number mechanism. Labor brought in a hated tax ( thesis ) then along comes Abbott saying he will repeal ( anti-thesis ) and then you get the “modified” trading scheme as endorsed by Mr Palmer.

Gores appearance is just Palmer signalling his allegiance to the UNs Agenda 21 program.

The people who call the shots are wealthier than Palmer 100s of times over and still have change.

This is not politics at play – this is the king makers signalling they control everything – Labor, Libs & PUP.

There is no mystery here – the ETS will go ahead. Abbott is a one-world-govt as hes a Rhodes scholar – Rhodes advocated world govt ( probably by the UN ).

We’ve been stitched up. Big time. But I expected as much.

Pauline Hanson was the last true wild card – she was taken down because she threatened the cosy little political oligarchy ( and no I dont endorse Hanson )

But G Hunt say an ETS has never been coalition policy was basically telling CPALM (yes, that’s my new name for him. I’m claiming it right now,only because it will link nicely with Face-palm at a later date ) that if he wanted it he would have to intro a bill for it himself.

and the consideration of amendments referred to amendments to tighten the screw on the legislation to require a Power Company to pass on all savings to the consumer.

Roll on 24 hours and all we need now is for CPALM to smack the bottom of naughty boy Ricky. (RoHa, don’t dwell on that one too long either please. )

Honorary Professor Palmer (fully paid for title) locked owners of strata title properties within his Coolum Resort (former Hyatt golf resort) claiming they had al not paid their levies. He was taken to court by owners who were represented by a retired barrister and owner and they won the case recently. They are now suing for damages. Rumour has it that Palmer wants to redevelop the site to make more money than he could get for the now run down resort. And this person is now an MP representing an electorate?

I hope it’s just business also but not while he’s supposed to be representing/supporting the Australian people, when I saw him smiling away with Gore I saw red, as I and many others are getting sick and tired of having jobs and job opportunities stopped as a direct result of greedy pigs playing with other peoples business, money and lives.

I really want to believe Palmers playing a clever ruse but the skeptic in me has serious doubts.

Mr Clive Palmer was a servant of Queensland Joh who “daily fed the chooks”, that is, the media. This is a PR stunt. Abbott gets his “Carbon Tax” abolished/ Clive gets the rid of his “denier” label, therefore would make him get stacks of votes when the DD comes.

Leverage that he can use to pry Abbott into calling off Newman and Seeney.
Leverage to pry Abbott loose to apply some muscle with the Chinese government so they won’t get their 12 million back.
Leverage to apply to Hunt so that Clive will get Galilee instead of Gina.
Leverage to pry Hunt into looking the other way when the nickel refinery leaks crap into the sea at Townsville.
Leverage so that he doesn’t have to pay at least 6 million owing on carbon tax.
He’ll be saying “you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours”. I think TA is smart enough to get all that in writing. Seeney is having trouble with that.

I won’t be voting for Palmer again. I voted PUP to get rid of the Carbon Tax. NOT to have it replaced with an emissions tax. A tax against CO2 that generates not only electricity but also Life on Earth. Any Carbon or Emissions Tax is a Tax against the existence of ALL LIFE on earth.
45% of ALL GREEN LIFE is Carbon Atoms.
18% of ALL ANIMAL and HUMAN LIFE is Carbon Atoms.
Atmospheric CO2 is recycled Life, without CO2 All Life would Cease to Exist.

Good to see someone has an understanding of the importance of the element carbon to life. Don’t hear or see much about photosynthesis and the Krebs cycle; I put it down to the scientific illiteracy of most economists, politicians, journalists….

Just when did our electoral system evolve to where someone can fund the election of a few senators, then instruct them how to vote.

In our political parties, even the greens, party meetings decide policy & voting intentions, then the members mostly conform to the party line.

It is definitely not the intention of our system to have one man decide all policy. I have to wonder if it is actually legal for elected members to be directly told how they are to vote, by the person who funded their campaign.

We regularly hear complaints about unions having too much say in labor policy, big business having too much input into the libs, but this is going much further than either party goes.

It is, it’s the way the game is played, peer pressure and intmidation, only secret voting in parliament will return our democracy to us.

Yonnie, same where you are, the public vote is a secret one, but parliament itself works on peer pressure and intimidation. Secret voting in the US senate, and House could probably even impeach Obama but an open vote won’t.

PS for the spooks reading, I am very Pro USA, been there several times, great people, but your nation is succumbing to the green weed and slowly choking, we in the rest of the world need the USA to stay democratic and free. Strong fearless democracy both in Australia and the USA underpinned by secret parliamentary votes are the way to ensure “We the people” are governing, and not some crony band of snake oil salesmen.

It is certainly illegal to bribe or attempt to bribe an elected member of Her Majesty’s legislative assembly.
That is what Jeff Seeney is trying to nail Palmer for, and the reward is a vacation of up to twenty-five years in the Crowbar Hotel.
However, the whole rotten system depends upon the ability of the party whip to goad members into voting one way or the other. If a member crosses the floor they are then seriously shunned and experience derision within the party. It is extortion, but not quite bribery.
There is a really simple solution. A secret ballot on motions in the House. However, that ain’t going to happen. They like it that way.

I would think that with the current price of nickel and the Coolum Resort vacancies, Clive might just be paying a bit more attention to his own tenure, and not be distracted by the World’s worst forecaster.

Yep, imagine if you could claim every expenditure for your own home as a tax deduction, everything: groceries, power, maintenance, depreciation, fuel, motor vehicles, hobbies, rates, water, sewerage, wages for family members, travel, yeah I’d do it as well, then I’s do the other same thing – drop Gore like a hot rock as soon as I was out of camera shot.

What gets me about all of this is that the Coalition took all this to the people at a General Election, and the PEOPLE voted to go with him.

Now, it seems that he cannot do anything.

The Losers have won, and read that very carefully, because it does have a double meaning.

And speaking of sock puppets, and how Al Gore consumed a huge CO2 footprint to get here to Oz at short notice, I wonder how Big Al feels standing alongside one of the biggest coal mining barons in Australia, and just how much did Palmer have to pay Gore to come here at his beck and call. Gives the word hypocrisy a whole new meaning.

Clive has no idea whatsoever about what an ETS means, and how it also entails Cap and Trade, and ask Clive to explain correctly just what Cap and Trade means, and watch the waffling on that one.

It seems that the buffoons are in charge of Parliament, all the Greens and all PUP, and Bill Shorten with his rabble looking like a headless chook leading all the other Lemmings over the cliff face, with Bill screaming at the top of voice every second … ‘well, so far so good!’

I’ve had a gut full of the lot of them.

These people think they are playing chess, when in actual fact it’s just tiddlywinks they are playing, treating the Oz public (who voted Abbott a mandate) like fools, in effect saying ….. “Just what were you thinking? Lucky we know better than you.”

It’s a joke, and the real pity is that the joke is on ….. US, the people who actually voted for change.

Get real Labor and all you other idiots. Just shut the bloody coal fired power plants down. Go on, I dare you.

Not yet. The Galilee Basin is not yet an established producing region. There is a big train line and a port needed, then the huge mining development. The Q’ld Govt has indicated it favours Rinehart’s Galilee proposal – Palmer doesn’t like that at all

Im with you James. The people that voted PUP couldn’t care less about Palmer or his policies, its a protest vote party. Provided he gives the impressions hes not tied up with the mainstream parties, he will continue to gain support. Its not rocket surgery.

This is part of the continuing demonstration that, if you run for public office, you cannot be trusted. We have hundreds of years of elections in which this is shown to be almost invariably true. Yet we continue to vote for such creatures. Now what is that saying about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

Government IS the problem in that it institutionally views itself as the master and We the People as its servants. Its self view has morphed into thinking it has god like powers. It acts as if it can dictate what can be, what is, and what will be. That view cannot be changed by a mere vote. The people we send to Government are absorbed, made part of the hive, and their ability to act independently, honorably and honestly is forever damaged and ultimately disabled.

There is vanishingly little difference between the tyranny of the few and the tyranny of the masses. Democracy only means the whim of the majority will be done in all matters. The individual is the smallest minority and everyone else constitutes the largest majority. Democracy means that the minority can be sacrificed to benefit the majority. This means that democracy is nothing but human sacrifice for the sake of sacrifice with nothing to stop it. So also the tyranny of the few.

What is needed is a fundamental respect for individual rights and a government that does not violate them ON PRINCIPLE AND DESIGN. The ONLY valid and moral function of government is to protect those fundamental individual rights. That is accomplished by prohibiting the initiation of force and fraud. Nothing else is fully consistent with the requirements of human life.

The consequence of failing to respect rights is a mounting level of poverty, despair, death, and destruction. The mountain of bodies produced and wide spread destruction experienced in the 20th Century should have taught us that. Sadly, it appears too few have learn that very costly lesson.

Are we doomed to experience the lesson again and on a much wider scale? Not necessarily. We can always choose to reverse our path into the abyss and choose life instead.

Lionell Griffith – you write clearly and your understanding is precise.
understanding the notion of freedom, rights and sovereignty of the individual is nothing unless you insist on claiming it in deed. whoever asks permission from another just does not understand the nature of it at a fundamental level.
so, listen to yourself. act on your reason. do it.

take your liberty or you get the alternative remarked in Julius Ceasar, Act 2. Scene II

And as for Clive still wanting to keep the the RET in place, there’s a target that will never be achieved by the current date.

NEVER!

Not many people would really be aware what the actual target is, and what it entails to reach that target, keeping in mind it is supposed to be by 2020 which is now only 6 years away.

That target was originally 45,000GWH, and now that overall electrical power consumption has (supposedly) fallen, (yeah! right!) it is 41,000GigaWattHours (GWH) of power generated from renewable sources, as indicated in the ABC News article at this link.

So then, let’s look at what there already is in place right now, from renewable sources, and from that, we can see what is needed, and hey, thank heavens for Hydro.

Hydro – 14,000GWH

Wind – 7,000GWH

Rooftop Solar – 3,463GWH (That’s all of it, with 40% consumed by the residences, and 60% fed back to the grids)

Commercial Solar Plants – virtually nothing that would add much to this total, around 50GWH total, if that.

Biomass – 1,800GWH (if that much, and all of this is used by the on site sugar mills and none is returned to the grids anywhere)

So, the current Total from All Renewables – 26,000GWH

Now, and here I’ll even go with the lesser target, because even that is totally unattainable. With a target of 41,000GWH, and current supply of 24,000GWH, then they need a NEW total from renewables of 15,000GWH of power supplied to grids.

Now, as you can see, rooftop solar is only supplying around 3500GWH, so even at best case scenario, if they actually double the existing total, something totally out of the question, then it still barely makes a dent in what is required.

Any type of Commercial solar power plants would be so small as to be virtually non existent, so anything there is virtually negligible as well.

You tell me how many large scale (or any scale) hydro plants would get approval these days.

So, now we see that the vast bulk of it has to come from Wind power, so that means a NEW total of around 15,000GWH from wind power.

Now, working backwards from that total, and using the current Capacity Factor of 30%, that means we need a new Nameplate Capacity of 5700MW of NEW wind power. The current TOTAL Nameplate Capacity for Wind is 2660MW, so we now need a new total of 2.14 times the existing Capacity.

Using the largest current wind tower which has a 3MW generator, that means a further 1900 of these towers, and using Musselroe in Tasmania as a guide with its 56 towers, then that’s a further 34 of these very large wind plants.

That’s 34 NEW HUGE Wind plants between now and 2020, 6 years away, not planned, but actually finished and delivering power to the grids, or around 6 new plants each year, not your piddling few towers here, few towers there, but large scale plants of 50 or more towers at each site.

That means these NEW plants would need to be in planning right now, because it takes 3 to 5 years to finish, if all goes 100% to plan, and that’s a best case scenario, and in the last few days, there are reports that ANY new power plants could take anything up to TEN years from proposal to power delivery.

Those 40 new plants are not even thought bubbles at the moment, let alone being planned.

Effectively, that means that this target will not be reached, and was not even a chance of being reached.

A bland statement of that 41,000GWH is something which people would see, and not even knowing what it actually means, they might think it would be achievable, something so patently false as to be laughable.

I suggest that the actual plan is that the target is never to be reached. The most successful way to aggrandize government power and control has been to fail and claim not enough was done. Hence, more wealth is taken, more property is confiscated, more of our freedom and liberty is stolen from us, and our scope of action narrowed. Thereby our ability to produce and keep the wealth we do produce to sustain our own lives and purpose is continuously diminished. We are being transformed from masters of our own destiny into rightless slaves of the state. Yet we go along to get along. Why?

We were warned a long time ago. A quote from Benjamin Franklin (also cited to Thomas Jefferson):

People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.

The likes of Jefferson and Franklin gave us a template to keep the balance of control in our favor, when the fall of a democracy is in the final stages the conditioning of dependence is so effective the people will still look to the perpetrators for answers!

TonyfromOz is not completely correct when discussing the Renewable Energy (Electricity) Target scheme. The 41,000GWh is the amount of electrical energy that is said to have to be produced in 2020 by qualifying large scale generators.
Generators built after 1997 qualify for all their production. Older generators only qualify for the amount they generate above what they did in 1997. Most hydroelectricity generation does not qualify. About 14,000GW of renewable generation does not qualify as part of the large scale RET.

Qualifying generators receives one renewable energy certificate for every megawatthour produced. When traded these are worth about $40. Electricity retailers are obliged to purchase a certain number of certificates based on the volume of electricity they sell. These are surrendered to the government and removed from the market. The number of certificates required to be purchased rises each year.
Also competing for certificates are operators of green electricity schemes. The certificates they buy are removed from the market, about 2 million of them. If the same amount of green energy is required in 2020, will an extra 2000GWh of qualifying generation be needed?

A separate set of certificates is issued to small scale generators, usually for PV on roofs. This is uncapped. Retailers are required to purchase these certificates as well.

One argument for adjusting the target is that rather than 20 percent renewables in 2020, the figure could be as high as 28 percent. This is because of the expected demand is forecast to be significantly lower than initially predicted.

Unlike Tony, I think it is possible to reach the target by 2020, not that I think it is a good idea. A penalty price of $65 dollars per certificate applies, so there is motivation for retailers to enter agreements with wind farm developers.

Renewable generation (above the RET) is being commissioned by the ACT Government in a scheme to have the ACT using 90 renewable electricity by 2020, 380MW of wind and, if you can believe it, about 140MW -180MW of PV solar and something being described as next generation solar. Since I’ll have to pay my share I hate to think that it might be CST with storage.

I’m willing to bet that artful interpretations like this will eventually be used to explain how this target was actually reached, and again, can you see how what John explains here will add considerably to electrical power costs for all consumers, as this cost will be passed down directly to all consumers.

As I wrote in the original Comment, Those figures I have used are for actual power generation.

Also, where John Bromhead mentions this here: (my Bolding)

Since I’ll have to pay my share I hate to think that it might be CST with storage.

This is Concentrating Solar Power (CSP) or as it is euphemistically referred to, as Solar Thermal Power, and here John uses CST, the letter T standing for Technology.

This method of generating power would have to be the single most hyped load of Bovine Waste in the whole sorry saga of renewable power generation.

Spain is often pointed to as a shining example of where this works on a large scale, with all the added hype that goes with that.

However, all that CSP in Spain shows, and shows so starkly, is that it is a complete flop, barely on the same actual power delivery scale as Wind Power, and in most cases worse than Wind Power.

Something like that emotive statement could be construed as hyperbowl mere hyperbole, but it can be easily backed up, as I show with this Post of mine at my home site.

My observation is that Abbott who knows how to charm alarmists like the climate ignorant Obama is more than a match for Palmer when it comes to sneaky. That is he is likely to use the Palmerites to get rid of the Carbon Tax and then and only then go on the offensive against the ETS or more simply make sure the PUP ETS amendment never gets past the lower house, given Abbott has the numbers there.

The next task for Abbott, after using the PUPs vote to get rid of the CT, is to work on disabling the RET.

As a life long Liberal voter, who hated unions enough never to vote for the ALP or trust any Independent, Abbott is, in my opinion, the right sort of sneaky bugger for these times who knows how to talk the talk about climate change while walking in the opposite direction. (Incidentally Hunt appears to be one of his converts).

Whilst Palmer’s PUP senators are not the sharpest tools in the shed you can bet that Tony, or maybe Christopher Pyne will have a conversation with each one of them at some stage reminding them of the platform on which Palmer (and by default) they stood.

That was, REPEAL THE CARBON TAX – NO CONDITIONS NO RIDERS – REPEAL THE CARBON TAX!!

If the “BLIMP” thinks he can do a Gilliard and get away with it he underestimates the intelligence of the ones who voted for the Coalition last election. They are not going to vote Shortone and Labor back in and Palmer’s PUPs are history, Greens irrelevant.

It depends on what percentage of his voters were listening and what percentage were voting for him to not have to vote for Abbott or Shortman.

Id reckon 80% of Clives followers don’t listen to a word he says and have no idea what he or any of his members think or stand for. Its the party of voters who have just enough intelligence to feel guilty about donkey voting so this way they can feel like they contributed without actually having to understand any issues.

I doubt Palmers vote would be affected by a DD and if anything it would probably go up given that both major parties votes and greens have slipped in the last round of polling. In Tassie I have spoken to dozens of people who voted for PUP and not one of them can spouse a single party policy, nor did they care. It was about voting contrary, that’s all.

A double dissolution will not happen unless the rules for the Senate are changed to prevent a round robin of preference votes, ensuring that a gaggle of one issue parties with 0.2% of the vote cannot get a senate seat.

However there is no reason for Tony Abbot to do this, as it would entrench the power of the Greens. While Palmer may back individual candidates, he has no real control over them once they are elected. There is no party machine and few really expect to be reeleected with his help. So Tony Abbott will run by a combination of threat of a double dissolution and executive power, as has already been demonstrated in the complete stopping of Indonesian boats for the last six months without reference to parliament, frustrating the Greens totally and their silly Senate hearings. Meanwhile the collapse in Union membership is going to cripple Labor finances, exacerbated by the Royal Commissions demonstrating how the professional Union management live in total luxury without accountability.

Tony will have seen to have stopped the boats, killed Labor’s Carbon tax and brought sense to our relations with our neighbours and trading partners. At the same time he is slowly squeezing the ABC/SBS and Fairfax is self destructing. He may really be very pleased to have PUP and Labor take the blame for killing off his $2.8Bn direct action plan, which we cannot afford anyway.

So the only downside is the current continuation of the worse than useless CEF and Climate Council, but there are other ways these can be slowly killed off. It is all about the next election and Labor’s failure to do anything it promised. “There will not be a Carbon Tax in a government I lead” will look even sillier with Labor opposing the repeal of a tax it promised to ‘terminate’. Goodbye Carbon tax. There will be no ETS either.

I think that the PM has a good understanding of the Climate debate; he has read Ian Plimer’s book. However, he is well aware of the level of religious support of people wanting to do something to stop it, hence direct action. It looks as though Clive is playing into his hands.

My view is that Abbott is a thorough going ACC skeptic but is playing the political game. One wonders whether Palmer is not on the PM’s wavelength in claiming he will oppose Direct Action. That would mean a little extra cash, for the PM’s budget priority of getting it back into surplus rather than tying it up in solving a problem the PM doesn’t regard as a serious priority (as he stated in Canada).

Thus he could say to those conservatives in the electorate who are tinged with Paganism “see I tried but Clive won’t let us help save Mother Earth”.

The historic Judeo/Christian position to which Abbott most likely subscribes (which is anathema to historic and contemporary Pagans, such as the Greens) is the injunction to “have dominion over creation and subdue the Earth”, which we in modern highly industrialised societies have obeyed pretty successfully.

Abbott gives every indication of supporting the continuance of that model through the use of cheap, reliable energy.

TdeF:
I agree fully, but I think Abbott could go further. Cutting the Direct Action plan helps reduce the deficit, so how about stalling on other promises which the public want?

The paid parental scheme? The subsidies for child care? Talk about the need to raise the GST? All these could be presented as a result of the Greens, Labor and PUP behaviour in the Senate during a double dissolution election later this year. Clear the decks, and prepare for an election before Christmas when the polls have improved and the Senate election rules set to eliminate the very minor parties.

While the public won’t care too much about an ETS, or a RET or a renewable energy fund, they will be sore at missing out on the “goodies” and likely to think that Tony deserves his chance – “after all he is only trying to keep his promises”. He may still not get a Senate majority but he won’t have to worry about them being obstreperous.

they haven’t made the connection between high electricity bills and “clean, CHEAP electricity”. They are starting to get the message, but not strongly enough. Announcing that there is a direct connection between the Senate being obstructive and their ‘losing the goodies” would direct the anger against those who deserve it.

And yes I have checked my bill recently. The only thing this stupid and incompetent Government we have in SA, has ever done for me is introduce a stupid solar scheme. After being up-braided by a greenie for not doing my “moral duty” like him, I went and installed solar, so my electricity bill is now paid by pensioners, renters and people who aren’t that well off. I have checked the increasing charges and I can see a time when I will be paying something, but that will be about the time the unit is paid for. I ‘defend’ my action by claiming that I am formenting unrest against the State Government.

Sorry I disagree, PUP will double the number of seats, all politcians lie, Palmer is proving he is one of the best. He is also a master manipluator, how else could he get the alarmist mesiah to stand up for a carbon tax crucifiction. (well apart from slipping a few dollars his way)Palmer is on his way to playing all sides, sure he benifits but the carbon tax is gone, the ETS will be a non starter, the greens are in dissaray, I dont trust any of them, but Clive’s motivation is all about himself, that in some ways aligns with crushing green alarmism and I am all for that.

We need to see what happens post July 1st. The carbon tax will be repealed. The bill is currently being presented for the third time as part of a long term strategy. This is a hand grenade with the pin pulled for those new senators who have waited since September to take their places, people who know they would not get back in if a double dissolution is called. They have rented apartments and changed their lives and had their farewell parties. They will not immediately vote for their own demise, to cut short a six year very well paid career in politics for nothing at all. The repeal will not be conditional.

The larger picture is more interesting, of a hopelessly compromised businessman sitting in parliament voting on issues which directly affect him. Who else owes millions in back taxes on carbon? Who else faces more such taxes if it is not repealed? However if he is to replace the Greens in the Senate, he needs to pretend to appeal to Green voters. There is no way China, the US and Japan will bring in an ETS, a carbon tax system where mandatory taxation is collected domestically to be sent to international bankers. Taxation is the sovereign right of a country. It will not be surrendered.

So Palmer is deceitful and his policies just gibberish. Then who said the Greens were not exactly the same, hypocrites and manipulators with their extreme communist agendas. It has nothing to do with science. Frustrated student politician Palmer has sensed the damage done to the Labor vote under Rudd/Gillard/Rudd and wants to be the third party in the country. So just as the Greens chased the Labor party position, he is chasing the Greens and it is working. Of course the policies do not make sense, but did the Greens ever make sense? The only thing is certain is that by far the richest man in parliament in recent history will act entirely out of self interest. You would wonder why journalists hardly mention the obvious self interest?

It will be interesting though with the grandstanding, traditionally done by the Greens. There is still the absurd exemption in GST legislation on ill defined ‘fresh food’ introduced by Meg Lees of the Democrats. In essence though, the coalition will be able to push through their agenda while Palmer tries to push the Greens into irrelevance by chasing the loony left vote. If anyone can actually make sense of what Palmer says, that would be the surprise.

I suspected Clive was about 3 snags short of a full BBQ lunch, but up till now hes done a reasonable job of hiding it.

When interviewed on the steps of Parliament this morning he was confronted by a rather sickly looking Fairfax reporter who was trying desperately to draw Clive into his little panic fit about the possibility of Australia ending up with no carbon abatement system at all. Rather than calm the child, Clive actually played into the nonsense and talked up China and the US’s efforts and stated that Australia should lead the way. It was like watching 4 old Julia Gillards all packed into a sack.

Most curious though was Clive kept referring to Al as “The Vice President”. VP of what exactly?

It would be a mistake to underestimate Palmer. He has made his money with canny investments, like Palmer Tube Mills. Unlike Alan Bond who is a convicted villain, Palmer has made his money in genuine ways with scant regard for the opinions of others. The nickel mine operation was a gift which keeps giving. He is definitely not a sandwich short of a picnic or a lamb chop short of a BBQ. However he is quite unpredictable, a trait which leaves analysts gasping, but he has always been like this and it works and it also appeals to the public, especially the loony element. You would have to worry about his health though, especially with his stress levels juggling so many businesses and politics. As Sir Les Patterson would say, a man in the lunch time of life.

Ex Vice President of the United States of America, billionaire, inventor of the internet, Nobel Laureate and all round concerned environmentalist is probably here because he is being paid say $1Million for lunch by an Australian Billionaire who is in the same image business as an individual really concerned about the welfare of others. No, you can have him back after lunch.

I advocate that if he’s on a visitors Visa he be immediately deported for breaking the terms of his Visa, and banned from returning for say 20 years or so. Certainly he doesn’t pass the character test anyway, why we granted him a Visa is beyond me

He has to git back to attend to his daddy’s tabaki farm where he works whoppin the mules pullin the plow as the sweat pores down his brow from dawn to dusk. It’s tough living in the top floor of the Fairfax Hotel in DC.

An example of an airhead has to be an MP who is driven to Parliament House in a Rolls Royce and other cars from time to time and when asked why ny journalists answered that he is setting an example to other MPs by saving taxpayers money. Then he arrived in a Commonwealth car and when asked why he answered that it is important to use Comcars to support driver’s jobs.

he’ll vote the tax down but only if we add a clause for an emissions trading scheme that is conditional on China, the US, the EU, Japan and Korea joining in too

….I think this is incorrect reporting by SMH. Palmer as I listened to him (and Andrew Bolt has a transcript of an interview that sounds the same) supports the repeal and ‘promotes’ the ETS idea, but there is nothing to concrete that in as part of the deal, leaving him open to do or say anything populist. Is this guy something or what? Even helping the taxpayer by taking personal transport to work, rather than using a commonwealth car.

Don’t forget that when he chooses to visit Canberra and sleep in Parliament when it is sitting he commutes daily in his private executive jet from his Queensland home, jet complete with a large Commonwealth of Australia logo on each side.

The carbon tax is relatively unimportant, in comparison with the international Carbon Trading Schemes, for the elites who are bringing about their Technocratic World Economic Order. They really want Carbon trading.

The Green movement is really the re-branding of the Technocrat Movement for a new world economic model, which dates from the early 1930′s in the USA, where there will be no nation states and where energy consumption replaces money as the international currency.
This is why smart meters and smart grids are being rolled out.

Forget Green, it is all about the world being ruled by a handful of elites and bankers and an end to democratic freedom and private free market capitalism.

It is brilliantly explained here by Patrick Wood in a recent lecture, part 1 of 6 of the embedded video’s, and is essential viewing. This is not a whacko conspiracy theorist but someone who has carefully collected data on the Technocrats and banking elite for 37 years, and is the best explanation I have seen for joining the dots to explain what is really going on.

To say that all of the events this week, from Al Gore to Bill Shorten to Palmer the UNESCO flop are all orchestrated because “why else would it be so” is easily dismissed as the logical fallacy “argument from ignorance”.

Right. Hitler and Stalin were dismissed as the argument from ignorance too.

[Edited to avoid lowering the tone of the blog. Hopefully I was correct in my assumption of what you meant Rod - Mod]

Both are billionaires. One made his money in coal, the other by opposing it. Both are quintessential politicians. They trade on emotions not facts. That is why Abbott would lose in a double dissolution.

FYI Al Gore is out here doing his carbon training anyway, so it’s a opportunistic rather than coordinated strike. Smart politics from Clive. If a genuine international treaty was signed with China, US and EU it’s hard to imagine Australia going it along – somehow we’d be sanctioned out of it. As you say it’s not going to happen anyway.

I don’t think Gore would be flying out here if there was no chance this legislation would matter.

Gore would push as much of his precious “carbon” out of jet engines as possible if there were a slim chance of anyone wanting to hear his unscientific drivel.

Sounds like Palmer’s trying to please everyone, but there’s far more behind it than what’s visible. It’s similar to Abbott’s “Global warming is nonsense..” spiel and then after Rudd announces a trading scheme, Abbott announces his own. Gah! If they’re going to be gutless wimps on the world stage at least try not to make it so damn obvious.

SMH – “but the CEFC, which has turned a $200 million profit on investing in renewable energy projects”

what $200 million profit? please explain, given all the money it gets from the taxpayers or as loans from Banks?! am i mis-reading something?

Nov 2013: AFR: Phillip Coorey: Green fund in the black, says Jillian Broadbent
Ms Broadbent, a former Reserve Bank board member, and CEFC chief executive Oliver Yates told a Senate inquiry into the abolition of the carbon tax on Tuesday that the CEFC, a $10 billion loan facility, was exceeding all expectations.
It was “delivering substantial abatement while making a return to the taxpayer’’. Its abolition ***WOULD COST taxpayers up to $200 million a year in lost revenue…
To be funded with $10 billion in carbon tax revenue, its role is to provide loans for clean energy technology aimed at increasing energy efficiency for business and industry, reducing carbon emissions and developing renewable energy.
Ms Broadbent and Mr Yates told the inquiry that so far, the CEFC had lent $536 million which, in turn has been matched by more than $1.5 billion in private investment for a combined $2.2 billion invested in projects.
These projects already account for an annual reduction in carbon ­emissions of 3.9 million tonnes and the net benefit to taxpayers is $2.40 a tonne. It was delivering abatement at a negative cost….
South Australian Liberal senator Anne Ruston asked the officials why the CEFC’s role could not be replicated by a private bank with no taxpayer exposure…
Not one of the CEFC’s investments had fallen into default…http://www.afr.com/p/national/green_fund_in_the_black_says_jillian_yS05D9rEEb55sLOsiBQBQN

Nov 2013: ALP: Mark Butler: ABOLITION OF CEFC ***COULD COST THE BUDGET $1.5 BILLION
CEFC Chair Jillian Broadbent told the inquiry the CEFC ***COULD MAKE $200 million a year for the taxpayer and could reduce 50 per cent of Australia’s carbon pollution by 2020…
These loans have the potential to generate $200 million a year for the taxpayer, while Ms Broadbent told the inquiry that, “It will cost the taxpayer more to shut down the CEFC than it will save.”…http://markbutler.alp.org.au/news/2013/11/28/abolition-of-cefc-could-cost-the-budget-15-billion

Wikipedia: CEFC
The Australian Government is providing $2 billion per year in funding to CEFC on 1 July for five years commencing in 2013 (Clean Energy Finance Corporation Bill 2012) The CEFC will be exempt from tax in order to overcome capital market barriers…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Energy_Finance_Corporation

interesting the CEFC is currently generating $200m profit? so begs the question … where is that coming from? if its renewable energy projects then taxpayers find they stumped up twice once in financing the funds to the renewable energy company and again when they pay for their electricity. this seriously needs a forensic audit.

if Gore can get the other countries to agree to an ETS he can start trading carbon (sic) again to recoup losses from the collapsed Chicago Climate Exchange. there is no way known that there won’t be booby traps in this deal. why else set up an ETS if it’s chances of becoming a reality are minimal? it think there is a nasty surprise awaiting all of us in this move …

my reading of it is CEFC isn’t making any $200 million profit. that appears to be a SMH CAGW concoction. one day CEFC claims they might save us $200 million. that’s it. and, as taxpayer funding comes from the “carbon tax”, where does it come from once it’s repealed?

“as taxpayer funding comes from the “carbon tax”, where does it come from once it’s repealed?”

Good point pat …. if no carbon tax and its repealed we still have to fund the CEFC, Climate Change Authority and of course compensation for the carbon tax which Abbott stated was not going to be removed … madness really ..

the UK version. anyone with pension funds, whether in UK, here, or anywhere else, needs to object, in writing, to their funds being utilised in these scams. note, predicts a profit in the future, reports a loss in the present:

24 June: Bloomberg: Alex Morales: U.K. Green Investment Bank Plans Offshore Wind Fund
The U.K. Green Investment Bank plans to raise 1 billion pounds ($1.7 billion) with a fund to finance offshore wind projects as the technology takes off in Britain…
***The lender will tap infrastructure investors and pension funds, Chief Executive Officer Shaun Kingsbury said in an interview.
***“We plan this to be the first private capital under the control of the bank,” he said. “It’s an infrastructure fund that will invest in operating assets here in the U.K. and we’ll put in up to 20 percent of the capital, so up to 200 million pounds.” While Kingsbury plans to work on raising money in the next six months, he couldn’t say when all the funds will be in…
The lender also today announced annual results, posting an ***operating loss of 5.7 million pounds in the year through March. That compares with a loss of 6.2 million pounds in the previous period, which only covered its first five months of operation…
The bank is building its investment portfolio, and once completed, is projected to earn an annual return of about 8 percent, according to the statement. At present, 88 percent of its investments remain in construction and so “a significant proportion of income is deferred to future years,” it said.
The bank was set up by the government to spur spending on renewables by using its own money to spur funding from private companies…
The U.K.’s offshore wind plans have already attracted plans by Siemens AG, Europe’s largest engineering company, to spend 160 million pounds on a turbine factory in Northern England, while investors in projects include Denmark’s Dong Energy A/S, the biggest offshore wind developer…http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-24/u-k-green-investment-bank-plans-offshore-wind-fund.html

more taxpayer money being thrown their way:

24 June: Bloomberg: Alex Morales: Green Investment Bank in Talks to Manage U.K. Climate Aid
The U.K. Green Investment Bank is in talks with the government to manage 200 million pounds ($340 million) of its international climate aid, Chief Executive Officer Shaun Kingsbury said in an interview…
The bank was set up in 2012 to invest in carbon-cutting projects in the U.K., leveraging private capital into green industries.
“There is a lot of capital that goes into emerging marketsto improve energy efficiency and go about renewable generation,” Kingsbury said. “Today the government sends that to multilateral agencies like the International Finance Corp. and the World Bank. But they’ve asked us to run 200 million over the next few years.” …
***The climate aid would be additional to the fund’s 3.8 billion pounds of seed capital, which “is dedicated to the U.K.,” Kingsbury said. The funds would come from existing government climate aid budgets, and don’t constitute new pledges, he said. ..http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-24/green-investment-bank-in-talks-to-manage-u-k-climate-aid.html

20 June: Guardian: Terry Macalister: Green Investment Bank boss calls for his borrowing restrictions to be lifted
Shaun Kingsbury says he could raise up to £60bn to fund low carbon energy infrastructure if allowed to turn to capital markets
And there have been indications of sympathy within government for private sector concerns about the cost of environmental levies, following claims last year that David Cameron had described them as “green crap”.
Nonetheless, the CEO of the UK government-backed Green Investment Bank (Gib) is optimistic – if Whitehall will let the shackles off. Shaun Kingsbury says he could raise up to £60bn to fund low carbon energy infrastructure, from windfarms to wave power, if the restrictions on his ability to borrow in the capital markets were lifted.
The prediction comes just days before Gib will report a financial loss but the bank has already helped raise £4.8bn for windfarms and other projects during its first 18 months. The institution has spent only £1.3bn of its £3.8bn seed capital but says project developers have been able to raise £3 from the private sector for every £1 provided by Green Investment Bank…
***”We will eventually need more capital. It may come in as debt or equity. There are all sorts of different flavours of capital that we could access. I would like to have somewhere between £10bn and £15bn,” says the former Shell executive, who quit the oil business for a career in private equity and the low carbon sector…
“We will produce a loss this year because we are not producing income. But if we did nothing else in the way of investments we would expect to be profitable in two years time,” says Kingsbury.
Green Investment Bank has a goal of investing profitably in wind, biomass and other green energy schemes that would otherwise not find funding from the private sector because they are considered too risky, or take too long to develop and pay back the investment…
The first 28 projects have been funded by it alongside global investment banks such as Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and Deutsche Bank as well as operators such as Dong Energy, Balfour Beatty and RWE…
The bank, which is overseen by the business secretary, Vince Cable, claimed to be the first of its kind in the world but has already organised a summit for similar organisations established in the US, Australia and the Middle East…
***”We are not cash constrained at the moment and there has been a good deal of debate around should the bank borrow … At the moment we are 100% public owned. I hope to move to a position of raising private capital and eventually we have some government capital and some private capital and we are publicly and privately owned – some kind of mixed model.”…
Kingsbury is an open and articulate ambassador for the bank. He is happy to discuss his salary – £325,000 plus performance related bonuses…http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/19/green-investment-bank-borrowing-restrictions-60bn-capital-markets

Both Gore and Palmer used Gore’s status as VP to lend legitimacy to this announcement by Palmer and used the recent announcements by Obama as justification, thus effectively cloaking it in The Office of VP and the Office of The President of The United States. It has now been revealed by Lyndal Curtis of Their ABC that it was Gore that sought meetings with Palmer to change his stance on these issues.

This raises the question of interference in our National debate on issues before The Parliament by Legislators from foreign Nations and a breach of our sovereignty.

It would be appropriate to put the issue of our National Sovereignty to the US Ambassador.

When you use your status as VP (past or present) and the ongoing actions of the US Administration (which is of the same party you were)to lend credence and weight to the actions you are taking or advocating, you create a perception of legitimacy and support. Or do you believe that was not Gore’s intent?

It seems Clive Palmer can ‘speak with forked tongue’ as a politician, and flip-flop on everything and anything, and make ridiculous statements as he pleases. And he gets away with it as a politician.

If Clive Palmer applied the same standards in the corporate world, the corporate regulator – Australian Securities and Investments Commission – would press charges against him for engaging in misleading and deceptive conduct.

Bloomberg’s Jason talks of Gore flying to Canberra to see Palmer, but really Gore was in Melbourne or on his way to Melbourne anyway for the Australian Conservation Foundation’s Climate Reality Project, so this was no special trip to Australia made for Clive:

25 June: Bloomberg: Jason Scott: Palmer to Support Abbott’s Australia Carbon-Price Repeal
Gore, who was the focus of the documentary An Inconvenient Truth, which warned of the consequences of global warming, flew to Canberra for talks with Palmer yesterday.
???The former vice president had convinced Palmer to consider Abbott’s laws and that the world needed to work together to combat climate change, the lower-house lawmaker said today.
“While I will be disappointed if the immediate price on carbon is removed, because it is a policy which I believe to be ultimately critical to solving the climate crisis, I am extremely hopeful that Australia will continue to play a global leadership role on this most pressing issue,” Gore said…
The U.S. wants climate change added to discussion points at the G-20 meeting in Brisbane, the nation’s Ambassador to Australia John Berry told media in Canberra today. That countered a claim by Treasurer Joe Hockey earlier this month, who said climate change wouldn’t be on the G-20 agenda as it was an “economic forum.”
Australian Trade Minister Andrew Robb said in a June 15 Sky News interview from Houston, Texas, that Obama’s plan for 30 percent cut in power-plant emissions in the U.S. — Australia’s main military ally — was “rhetoric” and “there’s no action associated with it.”http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-25/palmer-to-support-abbott-s-australia-carbon-price-repeal.html

22 June: Sunshine Coast Daily: Contributed: Leah’s chance to spread word on climate change
ART and science may seem worlds apart, but for Cooroy researcher Leah Barclay, this mix could hold the key to opening the world’s eyes to the reality of climate change.
Dr Barclay, also an artist, is so passionate about changing the public perception of climate change that she has been hand-picked as a worldwide climate change leader.
She will join like-minded people in Melbourne this week to receive training from former US vice president Al Gore, as part of the Climate Reality Project…
“I can’t wait, I’ve always looked up to Al Gore as an inspirational leader,” she said…
As a climate change leader, she will undertake a 12-month program to learn the latest in climate change research and then perform what is called “10 acts of leadership” in the community.
That could include conducting workshops and lectures…http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/leahs-chance-to-spread-word-on-climate-change/2296437/

CLIMATE REALITY LEADERSHIP CORPS TRAININGS FAQ
Q. How much does a training cost?
A. There is no fee to attend the training, but you will need to pay for your own travel and lodging…
Q. What are the ten activities that I have to complete and where and when must I complete them by?
A. Within a year of completing the training with the Climate Reality Leadership Corps you are required to perform ten “Acts of Leadership.” Acts of Leadership come in a variety of forms and can be completed in your local community. Examples of Acts of Leadership include giving a presentation, writing a blog, writing a letter to the editor, organizing a film screening, organizing a climate change-related campaign, meeting with government leaders, and organizing a day of action. Most Acts of Leadership will come from giving presentations, including speaking events you arrange yourself and events arranged for you through requests that come in through Climate Reality. The Climate Reality Leadership Corps will offer as much support as possible but you will be responsible for seeking out opportunities to take action…
Q. Aren’t we producing additional CO2 in the atmosphere by flying out to the training?
A. As a global organization fighting climate change on a global scale, Climate Reality holds trainings across continents so people everywhere can join us in working to solve the climate crisis.
Climate Reality is aware that the trainings are distant from some attendees’ homes and that event-related air travel is a contributor to CO2 pollution. In addition to implementing an event-sustainability strategy to reduce the emissions from the event, we measure event-related emissions (including air travel) and neutralize those emissions via verifiable carbon offsets…http://www.climaterealitytraining.org/australia/faq.php

from ACF’s website:

The Climate Reality Project Australia is a program of the Australian Conservation Foundation and a branch of The Climate Reality Project, a nonprofit organisation founded and chaired by Nobel Laureate and former U.S. Vice President Al Gore…
Train with Al Gore and become a climate leader
At this defining moment on climate change, we need a community of inspiring and connected people to champion lasting solutions.
On 25-27 June in Melbourne, Climate Reality Chairman and former U.S. Vice President Al Gore, will train a select group of leaders from across Australia and the Asia-Pacific region.

“Just heard on the Ray Hadley 2GB this morning that Palmer flew to Melbourne on Wednesday to pick up Al Gore in his private jet and flew him to Canberra then flew him back to Melbourne Wednesday night, then Clive flew back to Coolangatta and then back to Canberra”

the village idiot(reformed) left this comment:

“Palmer says he didn’t contribute a cent to Al Bore (sic) appearing with him yesterday. What about the cost of flying Bore yesterday. It appears that his jet, M-ATAR:

Folks, the political system is TOTALLY owned by special interest corporations and as a result do not represent you the people.
Your job in this system is to suck up and regurgitate the propaganda(news?)and pay tax so the puppet masters handling your politicians can financially rape you. The power of taxation is the power to destroy.