Well, with the league in Spain restarting soon, thought I'd put this up. Backed Atlético to repeat this year, and watching last nights game, think I could be right. Think Real will find that we've gone and bought more coats of paint on the Bentley, having sold the engine... Again. It's like history really is bound to repeat itself.

kingraf

raf

Posts : 16122Join date : 2012-06-06Age : 24Location : To you I am there. To me I am here.... is it possible that I'm everywhere?

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I may as well use Germany and USA as a fact to dismiss Ronaldo, may as well throw Messi in there while i'm at it.

I might be wrong, unlikely, but Germany won the World Cup(and only conceded 4 goals in doing so) so hardly like Ronaldo 'went missing'. And Leo Messi guided his team to the final, losing to the undisputed best team in the competition...

They didn't do anything against the superior German side did they, obviously I can use one game to dismiss their ability just like you have with Hazard. I'll leave you to argue with yourself as your opinion is laughable.

Gotta feel for Villareal keeper Sergio Asenjo who suffered his third ACL injured by the age of 25, last night against Atleti. Asenjo had only recently been called up to the Spain squad for the first time.

I for one am glad the TV rights have changed in La Liga. Barca and Real now won't be able to negotiate their own rights and the other teams will get a bigger share of the money. A step in the right direction imo.

Bloody Pepe cost us a chance of winning the league. Both of the goals we conceded were from his mistakes. The second one was abysmal. We need to play Varane-Ramos more often and give Nacho a chance aswell.

Nadeem, I know last season was very good for Madrid & you won the champions league, but do you feel Madrid & in particular Ronaldo has underachieved, not in terms of goal return, but in terms of medals. I mean, one league title in six years for Ronaldo is an awful return.

Well since we won the champions league in 2002 before winning it last season, there was a lot of hype regarding winning Un Decima, the 10th champions league trophy. Winning the league is tough. You have to be consistent, motivated and in most cases hope other teams do you favors and take points off your title rival. For example before Real's match against Valencia last week, we were 5 points behind barca with 3 games left and a game in hand over barca. If we had won that match it would have been a really close last hurdle as barca still had to go to Atletico and win to stay top. And knowing the rivalry between Atletico and Real, it would have been interesting.

Also regarding Ronaldo and his lack of league titles with us, it is a odd one but what can you do about it. I'm sure winning the champions league and the Copa Del Rey etc can loosen the burden of not winning it but I would personally prioritise the champions league over la liga. Other real madrid fans may feel the opposite.

The Champions League defines the club. Winning la Decima was everything. We only won a single league title with Zidane as well, but that one goal was everything. La Liga is great to have, and I'd rather win it than not... But five straight CL semi finals, that night in Lisboa... Worth it.

kingraf

raf

Posts : 16122Join date : 2012-06-06Age : 24Location : To you I am there. To me I am here.... is it possible that I'm everywhere?

Well said. I hope the club sticks with Ancelotti as I rate him highly and the player's seem to like him and his methods. Our season was going perfectly until Modric got injured. We are a whole different side without him.

Basically Perez wants to sack Carlo & has already sounded out the Porto manager, Klopp & Benitez, who have all given Perez no real answer. Basically keeping Carlo on because there are no options or alternatives is what will happen, how Carlo takes that will be interesting.

Also not sure you can keep creaming your pants over la decima. Yes, you won, but get over it, it doesn't mean it's acceptable to fail for two or three seasons afterwards. One la Liga title in seven years is embarrassing really for a club spending the amount you have.

Huh? I'm not sure how you can ask a question about Ronaldo and his time at RealMa without mentioning la Decima? Also...

"Acceptable to fail for two or three seasons after it"?

It's been one season mate.

Another way of looking at it, in the the time Ronaldo has joined the team, we've literally won every competition possible. The Super Cup, both domestically and European (the Spanish super cup is rated a little higher in Spain than the Community shield), la Liga, Copa del Rey x2, la Liga, the Club world cup and of course... La Decima. You have to remember, we hadn't won the Champs League for 12 seasons (having won on average roughly one every five seasons before the drought). We couldn't even get out of the Last 16 for half a decade. Since the turn of the millennium, we've only won four League titles, so its hardly like we're experiencing a freak drought. We've been second banana to Barça for a while now.

kingraf

raf

Posts : 16122Join date : 2012-06-06Age : 24Location : To you I am there. To me I am here.... is it possible that I'm everywhere?

The Champions League is the biggest competition in football bar the World Cup. I'm pretty sure almost every single footballer and manager in the world would take winning the Champions League over winning the domestic league. Liverpool haven't won the league in my lifetime, but I wouldn't swap winning the Champions League in 2005 for a Premier League title win.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I've always been the other way round, beating Arsenal, Chelsea, City or Liverpool to the league title is far more important than winning the Champions League and always was for United.

I'd argue that's because Ferguson mastered doing the former but wasn't quite as adept at the latter. If the Manchester United teams of 2008-11 hadn't won the other two Champions League finals they had been in they would be seen as one of the best teams ever.

It comes down to rivalry Crimey, at the end of the day winning the Champions League doesn't mean much if one of our rivals pips us to the League title. Would I or anyone associated with the club swap losing to Barcelona in a cup competition to losing out to Chelsea or more importantly City in the League? No.

I've got no issues with someone saying they'd rather win the league. I wouldn't. The fact that for the last four or five seasons only one semi final spot has been up for grabs hints that winning the big Ears isn't really down to luck.

If we'd won the Champs League, we'd have had to go through Atletico, Juve, and Barça. No way that's easier than winning the league

kingraf

raf

Posts : 16122Join date : 2012-06-06Age : 24Location : To you I am there. To me I am here.... is it possible that I'm everywhere?

Easy for me to wade in on this, perhaps, as my club will never get anywhere near European football again in my lifetime in all likelihood. But as Brian Clough said when asked about which of the four competitions were his and Forest's priority in the 1979/1980 season (we retained the Cup with the Big Ears that year): "The football league. Always has been, always will be. I would gladly go out of the European Cup, FA Cup and League Cup tomorrow if you could guarantee us winning the legue at the end of the season."

When asked why he felt so strongly, he answered, "Because that's the one where you've got to have every aspect of football management about you to win it."

It might seem an outdated example to some, but I'm still inclined to row with that theory, same as Jermaine and Hammersmith. Drawing the managerial example, I think a team needs every single aspect about them to win a domestic league as well. Obviously, success on the Continent is fantastic for anyone and is a huge, huge achievement. If you're going to be remembered as one of the great club sides in history, you're going to need success in Europe.

But the domestic league takes up about two thirds, sometimes even three quarters of a club's season in terms of games, even if they're a giant club like Real, Man United or whatever. It's where your team gets settled, where players earn their places in a team, where a team and manager have to adapt and switch between approaches, tactics and game plans depending on the opponent with great frequency.

Now I can definitely see why that idea is less universally accepted than it used to be. Up until eighteen years ago, you HAD to win your domestic league and reach that level of accomplishment to even get a crack at conquering Europe, hence the gigantic importance of a league title. Champions League spots are handed out like candy now, so of course the temptation is always going to be there to elevate it alongside a domestic league title or even above it. But for me it hasn't reached that pitch yet.

I've got a few mates who are Liverpool fans, trust me, over the years I've known them the ONE single thing they desperately didn't want to happen above all else was Man United equalling / surpassing their record number of league titles. From my experience, they'd have much preferred United winning less Premier Leagues under Fergie but maybe adding an additional couple of Champions League titles to make if five apeice. Anything but United having more domestic leagues than them, though.

'Come back when you've got 18' was the banner held up at Anfield when United first started winning league titles in the nineties. I don't remember a 'Come back when you've got 4 / 5' after United's European triumphs in 1999 or 2008.

I'm not even doubting that winning the league requires more consistency and is perhaps more gruelling of a run, however I don't think that makes it more important. The fact that you pip your rivals to the league is also an important consideration, but again not the most important one and with the Champions League, one that is actually existent in that competition as well. The Liverpool/Chelsea rivalry of the late 2000s was born in the Champions League, not the Premier League. We've seen an all English semi-final and a few all English quarter and semi-finals in the Champions League. Whilst you're not JUST in direct competition with your national rivals at a Champions League level, it still definitely exists.

To win the World Cup, the team only has to win 5 matches in reality, you could get through the group stages with one win, and then four wins to win the whole thing and that's without even considering extra-time and penalties and whether they count as wins either. My point being that this doesn't stop the World Cup being the most important football competition in the world. In the same way the fact that the Champions League has less matches and requires different attributes to win doesn't stop it being more important.

I think Chelsea's win in 2012 will have meant more than any of their league wins. Real Madrid's Decima will have meant a lot more than winning the league in 2012. I think Manchester United is a difficult example of a club because I do think that you naturally enjoy what you're good at and because Manchester United were very good at winning the Premier League for the past 20 years, that is valued higher than Europe because it's harder to take that Manchester United aren't as dominant on a European level.

If Chelsea lose 3-1 in the league they have 37 weeks to find 3 points. If Chelsea go down 3-1 away in a CL KO stage... they need to start planning for next season's assault. Champion's League needs it's own consistency. Of course, you get freebies. Although they are probably less than they used to be, funnily enough mainly because the CL isn't purely for champions anymore.

kingraf

raf

Posts : 16122Join date : 2012-06-06Age : 24Location : To you I am there. To me I am here.... is it possible that I'm everywhere?

Well yeah, I can see what you mean in terms of individual context, Crimey. If a particular team has won two or three league titles in a short span of time and have already done it all and them some domestically, there can be an exception to the rule where Europe might come first. Your Chelsea example being a good one.

But I'm talking in general. There can be certain little pockets here and there when the Champions League might take prime position, but overall I'd still side with the league. 'La Decima' was a nice marketing tool and target for Real. So fair enough, I can understand a Real fan wanting it more than a La Liga title in 2013/14. But surely now they've done that, La Liga has to take a higher importance to them? Being the first to get to double figures was breaking new ground, but being the first to eleven doesn't have the same ring to it. Reclaiming domestic dominance from their two biggest rivals in Atletico and Barca would be a lot more significant now, I feel.

Similarly, winning the league for Chelsea was the key when Abramovic rocked up in 2003 and Mourinho followed a year later. Think the 'Special One' has been open in saying that. Obviously, once they'd racked up a few league wins with the Terry, Lampard and Drogba generation the Champions League became perhaps their main priority - but only for a relatively short while. Once that's done I feel they'd probably think that getting back on top domestically was the next essential task, which they've done this season.

Same reason why Gerrard, even immediately after Istanbul in 2005, was having his head turned by Chelsea. The same reason why he said the bitter end for him and Liverpool at the end of the last Premier League season when the title slipped away from them was his hardest in football. I'll accept what you're saying insofar as the Champions League can be more important depending on time and circumstances, but I'd say that's still more the exception rather than the rule.

But again, I was seven years old when my club last competed in a European tie of any kind, so easy for me to say, I guess.