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Gaming May Never Appeal To Women

As usual, I have to first provide the disclaimer that will hopefully keep the hardcore gamer girls from slamming my inbox with reproachful e-mails: in no way am I saying females can't like games, in no way am I saying they're less feminine if they do like games, and in no way do I view girls who play games any differently. There, that should cover me...I think.

Anyway, the point is this: for a while there, it was my belief that as the industry continued to move forward and snag more and more female followers, that eventually, video games would be no more "male-oriented" than movies, music, or books. But I've come to realize that perhaps the core entertainment factor of games may be tied to the male psyche and if we alter the formula too much, that entertainment falters and dies. Now, I'm not saying that women have to like the same things but my question is, "would women find games specifically geared toward their gender fun?" I asked myself this question after seeing that Cover Girl game for the PSP. I just get the feeling that most girls would rather be doing something else; I mean, it's just a virtual fashion magazine, right? But...is that technically a "video game?"

There's no doubt that females are becoming more involved in the hobby but I've also noticed it's not due to games girls would like, but games girls would also like in addition to the guys. Know what I mean? For example, it's easy to name certain titles that lots of women play that also appeal to a lot of men, but can you name many games that appeal specifically to women? The key to the video game lure is interaction and - just to abuse the stereotype for a moment - it's not hard to find programming on Spike TV that could easily become a video game, but it's not so easy to find shows on Lifetime that would make for good "virtual interaction." This isn't to say entertainment geared toward one gender or the other is more or less intelligent (another disclaimer here), but it means this: I find it unlikely that women who read chick lit, watch the romance movies, and enjoy other activities like shopping would get a kick out of doing any of that virtually. Why not just...do it?

Perhaps it comes down to the fact that games that appeal to men have the player doing things we could never do in real life. Maybe that's the fantasy lure of the hobby. And therefore, if most women aren't interested in such things, and combined with the underlying interaction mechanic, how can gaming ever really target each gender equally? I actually think it's impossible. And if you're a girl scoffing at this, saying something like, "you're full of sh**; I like girly-girl things but I also love games like Uncharted and Gears," please just answer this question honestly: are you in the minority or majority? Hey, we gaming guys love ya, but we should at least be realistic if we are to address this subject accurately.

To be with a women you need time and moneyso, 1. Women = Time x Money2. now "Time is Money" so, Time = Money3. Therefore Women = (Money)^2 or money x money4. "Money is the root of all problems" so Money = SqrRt Problems5. Therefore Women = (SqrRt Problems)^2cancel out and in conclusionWomen = Problems

here's a little visual help =)http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/7788/women6ob.jpgLast edited by LegendaryWolfeh on 10/17/2009 3:23:35 AM

@ legendarywolfeh i laughed so hard reading that. that was great. i think i shall copy that and show it to people. i wouldnt claim making that myself but would like to ask if you did cuz that was funny shit. the funniest part is it works as a real math problem lolLast edited by frylock25 on 10/17/2009 5:16:21 AM

I don't think that gaming will never appeal to women. Stuff like ninja's and action are pretty universal. I think we can all agree that all that stuff is pretty badass. Look at how well The Dark Knight, The Matrix, and Pirates of the Caribbean did at the box office. Surely not all the movie goers were male, there's no possible way.

There is just a couple of things about gaming that developers need to take out to make things less of a bar towards entering gaming, like the fanservice-y characters. I don't see why developers can't just take out the misogyny, I don't think anyone will miss it too much. T and A are nice but I don't feel the need to look at it all the time.

Though you do make a good point (to a certain degree), you couldn't really make stereotypically "feminine" things into a video-game. Though I think shoujo could be made into a video-game. But there's really only a large enough audience for in Japan, and we all know how the market is in Japan so.....

It's just that. When I read articles, I find that when people try to think of something that might "appeal to women" they make their arguments based on stereotypes. I kind of feel like all they do is take the traditional female Housewife stereotype and say "How can we make a game out of that?"

Admittedly, my perception may be a little colored. I grew up with six sisters (no brothers), one of them is a captain in the army, one of them's a math genius, my mom's an electronic technician. Even the one that I think to be "girly" and really is into shopping and clothes still likes whatever science fiction movie that comes out. We watch a lot of the same movies. The other ones are a little to young to really form those interests but still....none of them I'd consider to be a personification of the Housewife archetype.

You're quite a bit older than myself so you are no doubt more knowledgeable. There's quite a generation gap here. Your 30 something, I'm 18 so....maybe things are changing?

I will say this: most people may not like it but stereotypes and cliches exist for a reason. The key is to ask whether or not someone's basic behavior is the rule or the exception to the rule (there are always exceptions).

Let's pretend for a moment you have a friend who has a shopping addiction, do you picture a man or a woman? Some may call that sexist, I call it mostly accurate.

TGG: It's not just your family, but the fact that you're maturing during a time when tolerance and the idea that all stereotypes aren't true is constantly shoved down your throat.

But as World said, there is a REASON stereotypes exist, because most every last one of them is grounded in truth. We just let the pendulum swing too far in one direction, thinking all members of a group are some such way, but now they're taking it to the other extreme and trying to say that no stereotypes are ever true, and if you believe them, you're just "ignorant."

Aristotle knew a very long time ago that all extremes are bad. It's why his theory of the vices being the far ends and the virtue being directly in the middle should be embraced by all, IMO. In other words, while courage is a virtue, rashness and cowardice are its corresponding vices.Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 10/17/2009 12:31:16 AM

The point I was getting at was that there really isn't this huge cultural divide between a masculine or a feminine culture. I think that there is this huge common ground that both sexes enjoy, and I think that common ground is more stereotypically masculine than feminine(I'm not using the word stereotype in a bad way, there just isn't anything inherently masculine or feminine about something, so I use the word to refer to things people generally see as masculine or feminine).

For example, would you think it was weird that a girl liked The Dark Knight? Probably not. But would you think it was weird if a guy said they liked Twilight? Exactly.

During one of my last Psych classes in college, the professor walked in without saying a word and put a puzzle up on the projector. He said when we had solved it to raise our hands. I remember looking at it and not even understanding that it was a puzzle; the solution was so obvious, it may as well have been 2+2 to me. So I raised my hand almost instantly. So did a bunch of other people. The professor then said, "look around the room." Every last male in the room had his hand raised while the girls were looking at each other in complete consternation.

He then repeated the process, only with a different puzzle. I remember this one, too; it made zero sense. It wasn't a puzzle, it was a mess. There's no solution to gibberish. But all the girls had their hands raised. And the professor said-

"This is for everyone who insists there's no difference between men and women."

I'm not saying there isn't any difference. There's a huge difference. I know this first hand pretty well. But we're talking about other things than math ability or visuo-spatial skills. That's completely outside the realm of whether or not a girl would like action scenes in movies.

I know my family is weird, but I think girls like more guy things than what they're given credit for.

As for Batman. I don't read comic books, I have never read a Batman comic book before. I haven't seen a single episode of the animated series. I haven't even seen the previous (non-Christopher Nolan directed) Batman films. I did however enjoy the two recent Batman films, and I am now currently enjoying the new Batman video-game. And the reason for this is because we live in a world where we are all pretty well acquainted with those things despite never really having any previous experience with them.

I mean, society has been dominated by males for the past several thousand years, so females are pretty comfortable with that fact. But there is no way(as a male) I'd enjoy a romcom.

To say that video games would never appeal to women is like saying sewing would never appeal to men.

But anyhow whoever came up with the idea that gaming would never really appeal to women clearly haven't seen much. I say this because back in the day at the arcades it would pretty much a regular sight for me to see female gamers and they weren't by the few either. Also, I guess some people don't even get the fact that some of the top players of Street Fighter, Tekken, and Virtua Fighter are female. In fact even in Japan female gamers are regulars(as players) and participating in tournaments surrounding these games.

Let's not lie. I was in the arcades, too, and there was never a case in the history of the planet where the girls equaled the guys, or even came close. It's also ridiculous to cite hardcore female gamers as they're outnumbered by about 1000 to 1 by guys; saying there are a lot of awesome girls who play Tekken is like saying there are a lot of awesome guys who read Danielle Steele. Yeah...some do. Most don't.

And as for your first comment, maybe you should actually read the piece before commenting. You seem to find a problem with just about every article and it's starting to annoy me.Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 10/16/2009 10:36:18 PM

Maybe this guy lives in the land of the burly women? Minnesota? I have only seen girls in arcades when they were with their boyfriends but that was just temporary because then those girls would go off with their friends shopping.

Ben my man, whats with the uproar about these editorials? This one is dead on. Anything meant to appeal specifically to women in the gaming realm isn't going to be a huge seller. Of course there are girl gamers and yes we love them and the annoyingly sexy way they wrench the controller from left to right trying to make a character move more (although with motion tech this helps) but the best part about gaming is that it essentially appeals to a fantasy that more men happen to have than women. I mean isn't that just about the size of it?

Eh, you can't satisfy everyone all the time. I don't expect that my editorials will always go over well; if they did, they'd be too bland and boring. They're designed to encourage discussion.

But in this case, I have yet to see anyone actually refute my point. They just say I'm bowing to stereotypes when I go out of my way to explain the disclaimer in the first few sentences. But hey, I already know that many people will comment and only read the title, not the text.

indeed sir, that is the biggest problem which intersects with your other article, the new generation cant even read an article, one of the shortest things besides a haiku. They go ahead after reading the title!

Ben, I'm not refuting your points (the bit about fantasy fulfillment was spot-on), but you seem to be overlooking The Sims, which absolutely involves "playing" everyday activities and it sells better than just about every "hardcore" game out there.

And don't just discount it because it's primarily on PC. ;)Last edited by Fane1024 on 10/17/2009 3:55:03 PM

Its funny because guys tend to be more of the action movie types, which games tend to be like. Though when you get drama and story driven games like many RPGs girls tend to be turned off by the complexity. Can't win, I suppose.

My wife doesn't play too much but if she does she'd rather play a platformer. She is really excited about Ratchet and Clank: CT. Though she probably won't get addicted as a typical gamer. Those 'gamer' girls are really diamonds in the rough...RARE.Last edited by Wage SLAVES on 10/16/2009 11:36:26 PM

@alien, I offer but she declines. I got her to play RE5 with me but all she wanted to do was play Mercenaries and she got board of that after 20 mins. The only game she can play for extended periods of time is LBP of course. I think that was #2 on Bens list of girl games, no?

@fluffer, I don't think so. Haha but the cinematic quality can be deceiving. A buddy of mine who's not into games walked in while a cutscene was playing. He thought it was a Pixar movie.

I think this concept goes even way farther to back when we were kids. Most girls would play house for example and they'll have the toys to play house, even the dolls. In my opinion, for better or worse, guys tend to live in their own worlds. Hell i remember playing/imagining games with a damn stick. used that thing as a sword, a gun, and whatever. We(guys)like thinking what its like living in a fantasy world. I dont know how much times a girl told me that "thats just stupid" when im playing games like street fighter, resistance, or ninja gaiden sigma. While that goes on, the only thing im thinking is that you're lucky i dont have that sword, leave me alone. Im not saying that video games will NEVER appeal to women because i think thats too much. But videogames applies more to guys because we like to live in a fantasy world. Not an actual world but a state of mind. we like thinking "i can do that" after watching an action movie for example. I know there were times i walked out of a movie theater thinking i can kick a guys ass twice my size just because i saw what jackie chan did in the movie. Hell, thats part of what being a guy is. Now if you would excuse me, i'll be going back into fantasy world for my harem with kristin kreuk, premommy leah dizon, and all the other girls from the movies i watched. hahaha

its just a negative stereotype.just like all Mexicans like tacos.or all Italians like pasta.or all Greeks are shifty sneaky lazy bastards.wouldn't say its the majority but there is certainly a decent amount there, and most of them would probably kick your a$$.thats one thing ive noticed about ladies, there much more determined and dont give up easily.most of the guys i know will try anything, but if they dont like it, or find it to difficult will quit.but ladies will persevere for longer trying to make themselves like it.

fish tacos?neaver tried that, beef, chicken ok.but fish?mmm should try that some day, may be with some smoked salmon.anyway i know a Mexican who has a sensitive stomach if you know what i mean.and im Italian, and i HATE pasta.not saying all stereotypes are false just 99.9999% of them.just like old wifes tales.

i dont know what kind of women u guys are hanging out with but.. the girls i know are major fans of god of war, resident evil, and silent hill, to name a few.

but they also like games like mahjong, mini ninja, super puzzle fighter, kingdom hearts, final fantasy, and guitar hero.

generally speaking, at least the girls in my area, dont enjoy fps or racing games other than games like mario kart. but i do know some online who plays fps games like modern warfare, and resistance. met some girls who play mgo. i havent met any females playing killzone though. these girls have headsets so i know for sure they are females and they already met the 100 friend cap limit.

something i did notice is, most of them have boyfriends who are also gamers. this is coming from the girls i know within my circle of friends.

i dont know how many of u guys are familiar with the soseproject but the people involved are definately women. idk about the xbox. but ever since ps home, ps3 has lots of girls (excluding the fake ones).

maybe some of u guys are living in the wrong area? also race can be a factor? EX:asian girls love gaming from starcraft to dating sims, to console gaming.

im not disagreeing with the article, gaming is more appealing to males than females i agree. but im just pointing out that it also depends on who u hang out with.

If someone wants to know how many girls play game , i think he should pay a visit to the playstation@home . that place is over loaded with women . i have some friends and man they dont understand anything exept playstation@home . they like it more than any games !! Though playstation@home is an awesome place . There's no doubt about it :)

I agree, i see girl avatars getting hit on by guy avatars saying stuff like "your hot" and "like that ass", really retarded stuff. which is another reason why women would shy away from gaming. Some of them actually want to play a game but once the guys find out shes a girl, they just get hit on constantly by self proclaimed online studs.

In this case, I agree with you that Home is NOT a game, but you can't just say something isn't a game (by your definition) if it undermines your argument that games are made for dudes.

Take Heavy Rain, for example. It certainly falls outside of the norm in terms of design, so much so that people are complaining that it's a QTE-fest. It lacks almost all of the stereotypical "macho" features of games, but you couldn't just say "that's not a game". Will it appeal to females? I don't know, but it appeals to me far more than some mindless twitch shooter.

I would argue that Cover Girl is absolutely a game, just like the very similar Playboy: The Mansion or The Sims. A GOOD game? Maybe not.

And I also would call the Xi experience in Home a game. In fact, it was the best adventure game I've played in a while.

I'm saying Home isn't a game because it isn't a game. By any definition.

And you're only proving my point by citing Heavy Rain. Exactly how many games are like that...? It's entirely the point that not many more will exist, and that the industry will never embrace something like Heavy Rain on a full-scale basis.Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 10/17/2009 5:24:43 PM

Did you not notice that I agreed that Home isn't a game? You really didn't need to re-argue that point. : ) I was making a generalization based loosely on that idea, more in regards to your dismissal of Cover Girl than Home. If you define games as exclusively "macho" fantasy-fulfillment (and I'm NOT saying you are), then they obviously wouldn't appeal as much to women. If you want to discuss the state of the industry, you need to include the whole industry. That was all I was trying to say.

If you are saying that games which appeal specifically to women will never be the majority (and I think that's your main point among many), that's not the same as saying "Gaming May Never Appeal To Women".

I think that the people who are taking contrary positions are doing so because you are using absolute statements (e.g., Gaming May _Never_ Appeal To Women) when your meaning is "in general" or "for the majority" or the like.Last edited by Fane1024 on 10/18/2009 1:39:14 AM

Oh look! Skant can look into our social history and determine we don't hang out with women!

Psychic!

Funny because I have a fair amount of female friends and acquaintances. And most of them would rather be partying/clubbing, on the phone, or shopping as opposed to going to a Football game, or playing v-games.

The stereotype is true, we've seen it first hand. My female friends are proof of it, and I'm sure it's the same deal with most people here.

It was wrong of me to believe that stereotypes about women might not be entirely accurate.

You've changed my mind. I realize now I should also re-evaluate my lack of belief in black, jewish, mexican, etc stereotypes as well.

Because you're right. There are people out there who fit the stereotypes. Therefore, stereotypes must apply to complete populations and not be anecdotal in any way.

As Ben said, stereotypes are grounded in fact. Because black people really do steal TVs. Jewish people really are greedy subhumans. And everyone knows that mexicans are lazy. All of these common stereotypes are excellent examples of stereotypes which are grounded in cold hard fact. They wouldn't be stereotypes if there wasn't any truth to them. They couldn't possibly be related to racial tensions and resentment on the part of the people who came up with them.

A hard core gaming community's view of women aught to be just as accurate. If not more so.

What was I thinking?

</sarcasm>

And in real news... I'm not saying that it's all necessarily completely wrong about women. I'm saying that maybe... just maybe... some of these views being presented about women and their interests might not be entirely accurate.

Particularly when they're coming second hand from a male point of view.

SkantDragon: Contrary to your condescending attitude, you're no expert on women, either. Maybe you don't know what I used to write before this gig, and maybe you don't know that my Psychology degree in interpersonal relationships qualifies me to be a marriage counselor and therapist. Maybe you didn't know that I helped make my living giving dating and relationship advice for several years.

But of course, that doesn't matter to you. Because according to your ingenious philosophy, no stereotypes are ever correct and the stereotype is that marriage counselors and dating advice columnists never know what they're talking about. So if THAT's not right, either...I guess I have plenty of reason to state my opinions.

My guess is you don't know many women. My guess is you give into the liberal propaganda that tells you to believe the exact opposite of what logic and common sense tells us. My guess is you see a woman and are quick to chastise anyone who says she might like shopping, might like fashion, and probably isn't into sports. You're the "grounded, enlightened" one who is here to make us mouth-breathers realize that "not everyone subscribes to the stereotypes."

Gee, thanks. We all appreciate it. Despite the fact that I spend half my time tossing out disclaimers to appease people like you, you still manage to sound elitist and condescending. It's a SKILL you people have. Really. Here's some FREE advice: grow up a little and open your eyes.Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 10/17/2009 5:22:39 PM

Ben... not too long ago you wrote in your articles that all women are crazy. You've repeatedly expressed misogynistic view points.

Sorry if I can't agree with you.

It's interesting because whenever you write about any subject outside of video games, you express a hardcore right wing conservative point of view. Here you even refer to how I must be falling for 'liberal propoganda'.

I can't help but feel the irony when _you_ call _me_ condescending and elitist. Have you read any of your own comments? Just wondering.

I haven't claimed to be an expert on women (unlike yourself). Nor have I claimed that stereotypes can't be right at all. You're putting words in my mouth there.

But then, that's what you do, isn't it? You just bully anyone who disagrees with you. Eventually leaving you with only those who blindly agree with everything you ever write.

Well, you get to win an argument by bullying yet again, Ben. You win the internets.

Lol, she's not just a GF =P should have made that clear-er, she's actually my fiance so in the end it's mine, but it's 'hers', get it? LOL and no she's not materialistic at all =) to be honest she's completely the opposite, she hates diamonds becuz of the labor used to get it and she hates other things for the same reasons xD but w.e that's how she is, haha, she just really likes gaming =)

Cool cool, I want to be with someone like that. IF I ever marry someone it'll have to be a gamer babe. Though I open to any kind of babe as long as she makes me feel the butterflies when we're together. What can I say, I'm a romantic kind of guy haha

Would you agree if I said that if women were raised in an atmosphere involving videogames, they would be more likely to become gamers? The small group that I know all played video games at young ages and continued from there...

It's not that "gaming hasn't appealled to women". It's more that gaming hasn't been truly accepted in society as a mainstream entertainment device. Believe it, we're still living in the age where video games is an over-evolved kids toy that has "-adult-oriented-games" for gimmicky purposes. That's why big news sections like FOX would jump at such a controversy. Had this been done in movies, it wouldn't be called newsworthy.

PS3 may be the only console that would break such a barrier. With bold titles like Heavy Rain and GOW3 and the cinematic title like Uncharted 2 (heck my mom asked "what movie it was?" knowing FULL WELL that I use my PS3 for gaming only)

Once that "just-a-kids-toy" mentality has gone, I think more women are going to be more involved in the gaming industry as the next big thing after such as T.V was to radio.

in my opinion when my generation takes over and puts the current generation in diapers to rot at the retirement homes, society will have shifted enough that most people will have grown up with video games as a main media in their house. video games are much more accepted in the younger generations than the older ones. more and more women accept gaming as more fun than movies in some cases.

the last girl i was with for like 3 years had her own xbox though she only had a couple games and didnt play it much.

my daughters mother played my gamecube more than i did playing harvest moon obsesivly.

i know a couple girls that have ps3's

my sister and her bf have a ps3 and she plays it just as much as he does.

better graphics and more accurate emotional displays will only further pull women into video games

I love playing games,I'm a girl actually I'm addicted to my PS3 and Wii really addicted it's really quite amusing I fight with everyone over my consoles I don't even like when my hubby has been on it to long, I baby my PS3 like I gave birth to it, I've been told by many of my guy friends that I'm a rare gamer cause apparently most girls just like to play cause the boyfriends are and man thats sad I've told alot of my girlfriends they are totally missing out on video games but they would rather do other things I don't have time to do other things I'm staying up with either the kids due to them being sick so that gives me time to play more LBP and hoping to start playing demons souls my hubby has been hogging the system though GRRRR I need another ps3 :)

I don't think this article is being sexist,sterotypical blah blah so if someone says it is just read the damn article. !

A lot of girls seem to like Guitar Hero and Rock Band. GameGirl dot com kind of gives insight to what games girls like. Nice picture of an actual woman dressed as Bayonetta.Last edited by Gone on 10/17/2009 8:36:56 AM

Yes you are right. I can't think of any games that only girls go out of their way for. A developer is not going to take a risk on making a girls only game because they won't make money compared to making a game for everyone.

Well I think your article is bang on. A point I'd like to make is that it is not the fault of women that games don't appeal to them. Devs and publishers have been raking in money from the male gamer for decades so that's their bread and butter. I don't believe publishers have been keen on appealing to girls and have therefore not put much thought into it. Only now with the success of the DS and Wii have publishers tasted real "female gamer money."

NOW they see that just maaaybe they can actually have a game appeal to the female demographic, but they're not sure how to do it. For the most part they're still floundering and jaw dropping every time a company actually pulls off a success.

What they are completely missing, is the fact that games DID appeal to girls, but they went and left them behind in subsequent generations. I truly do believe that the SNES appealed to girls. FFII (you know the one that was actually IV) was appealing to girls. Zelda was appealing to girls. Secret of Mana was appealing to girls. But what happened? Things went crazy. The controller went from simple SNES to crazy N64 and PSX controllers. Big crazy 3D worlds. I actually think games became overly complex and women just didn't feel like reading some manual to figure out what did what before getting to play.

How I see it is that the chicks who really are into gaming, tend to be into JRPG's. If you think about it, it makes sense, the romance plots tend to just be stuff that I suffer through(I love JRPG's but hate that), but then again that might just be the kind of stuff that chicks love.

Oh no, I'm certainly not saying it's the fault of women. No way. But you know what I mean.

Thing is, I'm not sure gaming appealed to girls in the early days, either. I don't remember a single solitary girl in my entire elementary school in the '80s who played video games. Then, it was STRICTLY a boy thing. Nintendo was to boys as Barbie was to girls; it was really that black-and-white.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean girls wouldn't have LIKED it if they tried it. But most just never touched video games. They were never marketed towards females, first of all, and parents never saw video entertainment as something girls would enjoy. But I'll bet if you put a 25-year-old in front of an old Mario game NOW, they'd have fun. That I would agree with.

I can say that I knew a lot of girls and women that were playing video games in the 80's. Ms. Pac-Man, Dig Dug, Tempest, etc. Back then it was very common to find females in the arcades or my sister's friends on our Atari 2600. Those were the days. Hot high school chicks... Where was I again?

Ben, you're right about it not being geared towards girls in the early days, but I do believe there was an opportunity there. My friend's mother, yeah, MOTHER, was into FFII on SNES. She was the one who recommended FFIII (VI) to me when it came out. I think they COULD have brought in the female demographic at that time, but they missed that opportunity and then over complicated it. I actually agree with Fluffer Nutter on that one. Arcades weren't LOADED with girls, but there were games that appealed to both male and female.

Now with the Wii you see girls playing Mario Kart and with the DS you see them playing Professor Layton and such. Nintendo gets slammed all the time (by me) for having simplistic games but I actually do believe they are on to something in regards to appealing to females.

What we need is an all women game developer to find out what type of games they would come up with. I hardly think it's possible for a man to know what appeals to their tastes outside of what both genders find entertaining.

but if you develop a game that appeals mainly to women gamers then it wont sell very well since....wait for it....majority of gamers are guys. Just as it is right now, guys are where it will be the most profitable and the farthest they would go is guitar hero or rockband...well, excluding all those shovelware games like barbie and petz. Not trying to be sexist or anything but a game coming from an all female perspective isnt exactly what guys would be rushing out to get.Last edited by johnld on 10/17/2009 12:52:20 PM

If done right..wait for it..there are enough girl gamers out there to make it successful. Or are you trying to tell me that the Hannah Montana game was made for people like you, because it doesn't appeal to me. If a game geared toward adolescent girls is worth putting on the market then so is one for mature females.Last edited by tes37 on 10/17/2009 3:48:18 PM

my point is that games like that do not have a big enough audience to be really successful. around uncharted or halo type of audience. Games like that are meant to appeal to younger audiences, hence its a hanna montana game. Just like in the movies, they're using the name of something popular just to sell it. Gamers or people know street fighter but when legend of chunli came out people just went to watch it mainly because it was street fighter, not to mention the movie sucked ass. i mean come on, the subtitle clearly showed shadaloo but they kept pronouncing it shadalao.

I was just picking about the hanna montana and glad you didn't take offense. I understand your point and it is the most logical between mine and yours, but I'd still like to see what a group of women would do with a game geared toward the entire gaming audience.

I think "Gaming May Never Appeal To Women" isn't exactly correct as a title here. It's true that girl-oriented games (i.e. games males wouldn't want to play) have always been and probably always will be terrible. The gaming analogue of chick flicks and romance novels just isn't all that great game design material.

But with "Gaming May Never Appeal To Women," you're saying gaming, as a medium, will never be accessible to females on a large scale. But that's not really true. Female gamers will always be in the minority, but the size of that minority can be large enough that you can't make the blanket statement that "games will never be for women." There are a wealth of games (I would say most games) which are equally accessible to both genders.

First-Person Shooters, and to some extent Third-Person Shooters, are the poster child of gaming, it seems, and those are male-oriented genres. "Girl gamer" has a stereotyped image of a girl playing an FPS online. There are other genres of gaming, though, like RPGs, adventure games, and platformers, which are less male-oriented as a whole and much more likely to appeal to both genders.

So you're probably right that the future will never see a 50/50 ratio for gamers, but I can see 30/70 happening, maybe even 40/60, and if that happens, female gamers will be in the minority, but not rare enough that you can say that "gaming does not appeal to women."

Are you kidding me? I'm sorry but the title of this piece isn't to be taken as a research driven, number specific, exact allocation type of display. It's a general blanket term, which you have identified. "May" is the key word in the author's assumption based on his experiences, and those that have been seen around, by other members of the gaming community. Now, we know there are some "out of the norm" females out there that love gaming but do you really think that if you put that group next to male gamers that we'd see a substantial amount? I apologize if this is coming off as attacking. I just don't see how women will ever be a large enough group that a good majority of males will say "Yeah, I knew a few gamer girls in my town."

I could probably re-write this with a different tone but I've got to take a dump and don't feel like waiting it out. Ha ha. Just adding to the conversation.

My point is that as time goes on, more and more females are playing games. It's becoming less of a "boys only" stigma, and eventually I expect it to lose the stigma entirely. Certain individual games will still have male bias, but the medium as a whole will mostly get over it.

Just because there are games like Gears of War with overly masculine protagonists so that guys can fantasize about being enormous space marines doesn't mean those are the ONLY kinds of games that exist.

Do you see books as a medium to be a girly kind of thing? There are a LOT more novels that men would never touch than novels that women would never want to read. More women read books than men. Publishing companies recognize this and they use it when they market their books. But I don't know anyone who thinks the whole medium of the written word is a woman thing.

Video games can be the same way. My arbitrary 30-40% isn't a negligible minority. We're talking about a large group. You might be able to say that "video games may never be successfully designed for and marketed specifically to women," admittedly less catchy, but you can't say that "video games may never appeal to women." Games can and will be designed for and marketed to everyone regardless of gender.

The male majority will primarily come from the fact that there are certain games marketed specifically to men, not from the fact that the whole medium is a boys' club.

Sedrata, how can one compare the audience of books to those that enjoy video games? Books can be bought, rather inexpensively, and the cost to produce and market a book is nowhere near what it would cost to get a game from conception to retail. It costs millions of dollars in development, production, marketing and advertising for a video game and I doubt that's the same with books. Yes, I know that marketing and advertising are virtually the same as they go hand-in-hand but for the sake of the few here that may want to dispute that, I listed them separately.

first of all, its dragon ball. Not really a hardcore game. Kindda like how naruto is. you know there are female fans of these series. those games are the type that you just pick up and play, a lot of button mashing. Second, when i play against women in video games, i usually dont play as serious as i do when i play against guys. i know, its not right. but i try not to let it happen. i think its because guys like to compete with each other which can result in yelling and insults. If you try that with the opposite sex....lets just say guys should always spring for a really really comfortable couch. hahaha

LOL. My couch ROCKS so I always have a great time when gaming. It's a choice but currently I've been playing upstairs as that's damn comfy too. The wife isn't into video games but she was watching last night.

How about Mystery Prom Date or Talk on the Cel Phone game. The Sims & PS Home are popular with girls because they can shop, try on outfits & chat without needing a lot of button mashing coordination skills.

Women are a rare and weird specie ok. Good looking girls ask their not so pretty friends to start a conversation with me so they can check me out. Video games can't appeal to them because they want to have a social life.

Ben, great article, i really agree with you on this. I mean if you think about it, well for those who know women, not claiming to know, women aren't generally geared towards the gaming industry. Granted, I know some women who do enjoy playing games, could I say they're hardcore gamers? No. Now I know there are exceptions, but the tendency shows, there aren't many hardcore women gamers. That's not saying that it's because they don't like them, but like you mentioned, that fantasy aspect does play a key part with this. Like you mentioned, maybe it's the fact that it was really never targeted towards women, or maybe it's just the way it appeals to the gender, the fact is women have never really been AS involved in this industry as men. No I'm not saying this will never happen, as you said yourself, maybe as time goes on and gaming appeals more to the masses, maybe then we'll see this industry open up more to girls and women alike. Like your article about Uncharted 2 appealing to more women then expected, i believe in time gaming will appeal more widespread then now, but as of now, it's no where near that.

Look, i'm no hardcore gamer. For me it's a hobby, I'm usually studying, playing for my soccer team, or with my friends or girlfriend. I'll occasionally pick up the controller and play maybe an hour or so, so maybe i'm not the right person to express my opinion on this. But i know for a fact, even though my girlfriend has played some games with me, she is not interested in the least bit in it. The most she'll play is a guitar hero or singing game haha. Now to say she doesn't appreciate games isn't true, she appreciates the complexity, the artistry, and the effort it takes to create them. Honestly, the majority of girls i know really don't show an interest in this. They rather be out with their girlfriends, go out and shop, or just be around their boyfriend. I know there are those hardcore gamer women out there, but right now they are the minority, and i honestly think it will take time for women to be as involved. Will it ever happen? I don't know. But in MY OPINION (capitalized because it is an opinion and i know some people won't take it as that and try to sway my point), I don't think it will ever get there. No hard feelings to those hardcore women gamers, i just don't really see it happening.

Wow. As a girly-girl who also happens to be a gamer (and screw things like the Sims or anything typically associated with chicks. Yawn. I'm much more into RPGs and first person shooters) I take literally no offense to the article itself, because, yeah, I admit I may be a minority in that.

But some of these comments are ridiculous. Women want to talk on the phone all day, shop, and meet the right man? Seriously? Do you actually know any women? Because while I know a few women like that, most of my friends are much more concerned with things like their careers to bother themselves with all day shop fests or talking on the phone. But maybe I just know a way higher caliber of woman than you do.

You admit to being in the minority, which makes the entire point of my article.

And once again, I suppose I should probably clarify: there are certain things that appeal more to most women than to most men, and vice versa. And furthermore, saying they think about their careers isn't a valid analogy because I was referring exclusively to leisure activities.

i just played a few games of uncharted coop with a girl that said uncharted 2 was now her official second game. socom was her first for her ps3. we partied up and played some more and she was doin better than i was at times.

she was tellin me how she was addicted to uncharted 2 now which is awesome ;)

she said though that she has been skipping the cutscenes cuz she just wants to play. i was very suprised at that. she was a good way into the single player but was playin multi more i guess. still skip the cut scenes?!?! she just likes the game play.

Speaking in favor of stereotypes is always dangerous ground. A lot of injustices have been commited in the name of generalizations and differences. Anyways I think I don't like the comments you've made Ben, you come off very elitist and not much open to discussion. you state that no one has refuted your points, but have you answered to ones made in the coments? If stereotypes are grounded in fact, then the majority of black people are thieves, hiphopsters or gangsters?. the majority of Jewish people are greedy or have annoying mothers? the mayority of latin people are lazy or thieves or great lovers? Cause that's what I get from the majority of girls don't like videogames, you might as well be saying the majority of girls want to find a good husband and have lots and lots of children. I may accept any point made by your studies in behavior, which you threw in the face of another poster, but a point made because of a stereotype?

P.S. Sorry If I mispelled a lot, English is not my first language...Last edited by darxed on 10/19/2009 6:40:12 PM

Ugh I know I'm part of the minority when it comes to girl gamers but the comments that most of you put up are the reasons why there aren't enough of us. Yes stereotypes exist for a reason but you shouldn't always go by them.

I love to come to this website to get my gaming updates and whatnot and this article just made me have a little nerd rage. Shame on you all for even thinking that most of us just like to shop, gab, and pretty much take up space. I tried to read through most of the comments and excuse me if I'm wrong but are most of you even living in the 20th century? The whole 'oh my girlfriend isn't into those type's of games', is getting old. Personally I love my RPG's, racers, fighting games, and some adventure games but as a whole I think this industry continues to fail it's female fanbase because they don't get 'us'.

They keep saying things similar to what most of this article says but Ben why in heaven's name would want to play a game based off of a Lifetime show? (But if it was Golden Girls related sign me up.) Most of the reasons why (at least in my opinion) girls like myself play games is to get away from the melo-drama that is "female entertainment" because even that doesn't speak to us.

And that comment that Ben but up sums it up nicely. The companies didn't even TRY to market their games to females in the 80's but now that they see that same 'female group' is a cash cow they put out crap like (put generic badly coded game here) and expect girls to like it, when most of them are smart enough to know crap when they see it. You know let me just end this here before it becomes nerd rage. But just know this even casual games like Sims and Harvest Moon are hardcore when you see how much hours are being put in to playing it.