it's still a 2nd piece you need which defeats the purpose of a portable platform imo.

But every single handheld console suffers the same problem now except in the hands of children who don't have a cell phone; any adult whatsoever carrying a vita or DS or whatever to work, on a train, etc. has two devices--the console and the phone. Nokia knew this and tried that phone/console experiment a few years back, but it was premature.

im the exact opposite. i'd take my phone angry birds games over a psp or ds any day. portable gaming is only in really short spurts for me and these 5 minute timewasters are perfect for that.

if i wanted to play a real game for a whole day of gaming with real buttons i'd do so on my couch or recliner with a controller in my hand on a 60" or 120" screen.

Considering my own portable gaming habits (quite opposite to the 5 min timewasters), phones would need a lot more battery power to not have an overly negative impact.

Currently, I have my phone and 3DS. Games played on the latter have no impact whatsoever on the battery of the device I actually need. As it is, smartphones already have poor battery life when gaming isn't concerned, one (key word) of the reasons I stick to a dumbphone + console.

I agree OP. However, I think a well integrated, officially backed external add-on is what would be needed to get this to take off. Apple has a pretty blah approach to games, they just don't really care that much, and so I think it'd take someone else to get it done.

I really think Nintendo should look to making their handheld be that for like the iPhone. They already make plasticky add-ons for their stuff, and look at the 3DS they even made one just for an extra analog stick. Get Apple to help them create a nicer clamshell case that houses a second display, extra battery, and dedicated gaming controls, sell it for $100 and it'll sell like crazy. Nintendo will almost assuredly sell a lot more games doing that while worrying a lot less about the hardware and the lower price point would likely be less risky. And it'd help push higher priced games on iPhone which I'm sure Apple would love, which would help attract other big name game developers too. I think a lot of people would see that as better than having a smartphone and carrying a dedicated portable game system.

Or Microsoft. Take the division that made Surface tablet, and get them to work with OEMs on making improved devices. They could then dictate something like magnetic "clips" on the ends of phones and tablets that function like magsafe and would allow for add-ons to be added to a smartphone (much like how a lot of stuff clips onto iPhones via the connector and/or headphone jack). Then they could make an official Microsoft branded controller that clips on and gives you extra controls in line with the Xbox. This way they're not stuck with an expensive full device like the PSP/PS Vita and it would be a minor thing to add so that OEMs still have plenty of variety for their devices and it can be used for other purposes (docking on radios and in cars, non "plugged in" charging, etc). Plus they could really muscle in with games as they by far have better gaming software support than Apple and Google (speaking of stuff like DirectX and Xbox Live). They could then use their minimum spec they push with Windows Phone to make that what developers aim for so that games can be on Windows Phone and Xbox Live Arcade (and Windows RT, Win8). It would help bolster the entire Windows ecosystem, leverage Xbox, and give them a serious marketing angle. Their controller dongles could even function like the Wii and Sony Move controllers with Kinect and PCs. And it could make add-ons for that easier (just put the magnetic clips on some plastic stuff to give the feel of guns/etc). If they're smart they could do a lot of cross-use stuff that would make them more appealing and beneficial (integrate them so they can be used to add extra control to Windows and control Powerpoint and stuff like that).

They could come up with a couple varieties. A larger one (that fits phones, tablets) with a more ergonomic shape that could function as a controller elsewhere (like the move controller or under Windows), and also a more compact one (think if the 3DS had two analog sticks and the d pad and face buttons, then just take the actual parts they make up).

I agree OP. However, I think a well integrated, officially backed external add-on is what would be needed to get this to take off. Apple has a pretty blah approach to games, they just don't really care that much, and so I think it'd take someone else to get it done.

Apple has been consistently offering much higher graphic performance with their last few device iterations, which really speaks against your "blah approach to games." Apple has also had developers such as Chair (Infinity Blade) with them to present the latest and greatest in mobile gaming visuals.

What I think you really mean to suggest is that Apple wants to avoid awkward and bulky control mechanisms. That controller adapter shown above just looks too bulky. I've seen it in the past, and my first comment is always, "they really should have made it engulf the device, not sit around it making it considerably larger."

But every single handheld console suffers the same problem now except in the hands of children who don't have a cell phone; any adult whatsoever carrying a vita or DS or whatever to work, on a train, etc. has two devices--the console and the phone. Nokia knew this and tried that phone/console experiment a few years back, but it was premature.

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Originally Posted by American Gunner

Most of us already carry our phone with us, so it's either add something like the picture, or carry around a DS or PSP/Vita along with out phones.

not disagreeing with either of these - i think that phones are the best portable platforms there for my usage because they are mindless games that can be played in spurts of 5-10 minutes and forgotten about right after. i wouldn't want to carry around another portable console, or an add on controller, because i wouldn't play a "real" game on a portable device anyways - that is what my ps3/360, couch, surround sound, and big screen are for doing.

its not the controller.. its the games period.. Yes there are some good ones.. but like the Wii shovelware or the same damn game with new graphics 99.99% of all phone games are Tower Defense, Angry Birds clones (which are really just the 20 year old Howitzer games we had on PC years ago), dinner dash type or.. pay to play farmville sims..

shovel enough shit and call it a game on the masses.. even they will call it shit.

The iPhone has massive market share, huge processing power, and a nice touch screen. Based on the games I have played the overwhelming thing holding it back is that a touchscreen blows huge chunks for a lot of games. So I think somebody needs a Bluetooth controller. I google this, find that there are tons of them. I bet some dint even suck (I bet most do). I then figure the only reason these aren't taking off is lack of dev support. Is this true?

Am I the only one to think that if a big company put its weight behind a 30-40$ controller and ensured the best games supported it that it would be a nice item to get? Currently for example FPS games are basically unplayable on the iPhone due to lack of joystick and shoulder buttons. I think this is also why most iPhone games are $1-5--because it just cannot be taken seriously as a game platform without superior input.

Unfortunately the IPhone accessory market is saturated with so much absolute dog crap that it is harder than it should be for a quality product to emerge.

It doesn't bode nor warrant an aftermarket controller. The whole point of a touchscreen phone is that it's touchscreen. Then you have to deal with different processor speeds of the 3GS, 4, 4S, 5. Then the different screen size. Then the different sized case. Etc. People play games on it b/c it's a fun way to pass time, not b/c they want to have a dedicated console gaming experience.

It doesn't bode nor warrant an aftermarket controller. The whole point of a touchscreen phone is that it's touchscreen. Then you have to deal with different processor speeds of the 3GS, 4, 4S, 5. Then the different screen size. Then the different sized case. Etc. People play games on it b/c it's a fun way to pass time, not b/c they want to have a dedicated console gaming experience.

This is why the DS is popular. It's for gaming. Who wants to eat up their battery on their phone playing games and miss the call when the missus is gonna have the baby?

If by massive you mean tiny, then you have a very good point. Apple has been getting crushed in market share for quite some time now, their stock is in free fall in no small part due to this.

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I then figure the only reason these aren't taking off is lack of dev support. Is this true?

You have to keep in mind that Apple detests developers and users of its' products. Make something that works flawlessly on an Apple device, Apple will and frequently does decide on a whim to tell you to go fvck yourself and locks you out of their platform. I know the praise Apple crowd will get offended at that so- charge cables, Google Maps- Apple will screw their customers, users and accessory makers over for no good reason whenever they feel like it. Would you want to risk your efforts on such a platform? You prove something can be wildly successful on Apple's platform and they *will* steal it for themselves and have you thrown to the curb as often as not.

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Apple has been consistently offering much higher graphic performance with their last few device iterations

Well, if you only ever look at PowerVR's press release(AKA GLBenchmark), seems like for actual games their visuals continue to lag behind 2011's Tegra3 versions. Here's hoping Futuremark exposes their fraud and Apple decides to use a GPU that works well in games instead of just one specific press release(calling GLBench a true benchmark dilutes the meaning of the word).

In terms of smartphones in general, we have far too much fragmentation to get the kind of focused developer support that we see in handhelds barring either Sony or nVidia doing it for us(they are the only two companies that I can see having the experience and capabilities of pulling it off). Too many splinters, no firm baseline hardware, no rigid standards. Phones will offer some very compelling content, I have found Horn to be spectacular, but it is going to be a while before they are superior to dedicated handheld systems when looking solely at gaming.

Make something that works flawlessly on an Apple device, Apple will and frequently does decide on a whim to tell you to go fvck yourself and locks you out of their platform.

You prove something can be wildly successful on Apple's platform and they *will* steal it for themselves and have you thrown to the curb as often as not.

Well, if you only ever look at PowerVR's press release(AKA GLBenchmark), seems like for actual games their visuals continue to lag behind 2011's Tegra3 versions.

This, folks, is what we call "bias", and generally, such should be avoided for the sake of your own sanity.

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Originally Posted by BenSkywalker

In terms of smartphones in general, we have far too much fragmentation to get the kind of focused developer support that we see in handhelds

Yeah... you see... that's why this is a discussion on iOSdevices. By providing a similar platform with each release, Apple can.. *gasp* reduce the amount of fragmentation for developers making it easier to produce a similar experience across devices! The only negative aspect for consumers is that you have to be aware of which devices the developer has chosen to support. I really think that Apple should make this information more prominent in their app store. I've seen some apps (games) that only support the A5-equipped devices or better, which only includes the iPad 2, iPad 3, iPad 4, iPad Mini, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5 and iPod Touch 5. In other words, the iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4 and iPad users are left out. This can be fairly significant given most apps tend to support the 3GS and beyond.

There are already plenty of portable time waster games to play. I'm saying it would take very little money and effort from Apple/Google to begin a takeover on the couch potato console gaming market as well. I think they should go for both, everything but an official, universally supported controller is there.

The gimmicky angry bird caliber of game seems to be the most prevalent on iOS and Android. Of course for Andriod, theres a great work around for this.

Emulation of console games gives you a pretty good balance with a few caveats.

Good:

Full feature length, professionally made, games

Ability to save state so you can always put it down

Nostalgia - - ability to go back and play a classic if you never got around to it growing up. (seriously, go play Chrono Trigger if you missed it)

With HDMI out, you phone becomes your new console.

Cons

Graphics, if you care about that sort of thing.

Sound integration is lacking on Android. Poor Final Fantasy VI. Opening scene sounds like a kid playing an out of tune trumpet...

Controls. Using a touch screen can suck for your more action packed games, and your thumbs can take a lot of the screen real estate.

Note: You *can* get better at it through practice. I managed to get all the armor upgrades in Mega Man X on a 4.3 in screen. However, some button combinations (notably when you have to hold something down while doing something else) are really challenging.

Sound integration is lacking on Android. Poor Final Fantasy VI. Opening scene sounds like a kid playing an out of tune trumpet...

Sound plays fine for me, what device and emu are you using? BTW- I have the SNES FFIII in its' box sitting on my desk(even for emulators, I still make sure I own the game before I download it).

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This, folks, is what we call "bias", and generally, such should be avoided for the sake of your own sanity.

Are you trying to claim that Apple did not stop millions of their customers from using Google Maps app because they decided to demand their users use Apple Maps instead? Are you also going to deny that Apple maps was so bad Police were issuing warnings not to use it?

You can try and claim that is biased, stepping outside the RDF into actual reality can certainly seem that way.

How about the new connector that they came up with to break every third party accessory that used the long standing iPod style connector. Is it bias to point out that Apple told all the accessory makers and users of those products that they decided that once again, they knew what was better and they didn't have a choice?

You talk as if what I am saying is out of line- Apple's actions are to an insane degree anti consumer no matter how absurdly biased you want to be.

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By providing a similar platform with each release, Apple can.. *gasp* reduce the amount of fragmentation for developers making it easier to produce a similar experience across devices!

Really now? You don't say? Wait, I'm sorry, I don't live in happy RDF land, so I'm going to have to point out that disturbing *reality* thing again- just recite all hail Jobs a hundred times and maybe you can ignore it.

Hmmm, so out of the last three models Apple has introduced, none of them have the same resolution, none of them have the same SoC and they don't even share the same aspect ration. That is what you call 'fragmentation'. Apple is shattering the iOS market and only compounding it with each device they make.

As I stated previously before the member of the Cult of Jobs jumped in- There is *FAR* too much fragmentation- even when looking *ONLY* at iOS devices for developers to get behind it the way they do the dedicated hand held consoles.

There are already plenty of portable time waster games to play. I'm saying it would take very little money and effort from Apple/Google to begin a takeover on the couch potato console gaming market as well. I think they should go for both, everything but an official, universally supported controller is there.

You can't really expect me to believe people will give up halo, Mario, Zelda, god of war, forza, call of duty, grand theft auto, and metal gear for some phone game.

Are you trying to claim that Apple did not stop millions of their customers from using Google Maps app because they decided to demand their users use Apple Maps instead? Are you also going to deny that Apple maps was so bad Police were issuing warnings not to use it?

Honestly, is your Elite title provided because you're elite at providing misinformation? You do realize that the original Maps application in iOS that used Google's data was created by Apple using a license from Google. You do also realize that this license did not allow for turn-by-turn directions. You do also realize that by using Google's back-end, Apple was providing more data to Google that it uses in its data-mining operations.

What's humorous is that prior to iOS 6's announcement, Android fans would lambaste Apple for the lack of turn-by-turn directions in iOS. Once they released an app that could perform turn-by-turn directions, they cried out against it. At least if you're going to complain about Apple Maps, complain about the lack of public transit or something. I've had instances where Google Maps did not find what I was looking for and Apple Maps did and vice-versa. Google Maps also has local businesses in vastly wrong locations, and it's not like the location is simply old... it was never there.

Also, see the comment below about how worthwhile this topic is in this topic.

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Originally Posted by BenSkywalker

You can try and claim that is biased, stepping outside the RDF into actual reality can certainly seem that way.

Yes, I am claiming that you are biased against Apple, and as far as I'm concerned, you have done nothing but prove me right with your latest post. Look at it this way, this is a thread on mobile gaming on iOS (specifically the iPhone). Ignoring their legitimacy, you bring up points that aren't even applicable to mobile gaming, and yet you expect me to take you seriously.

The only point that you've brought up that is even related to gaming is being negative toward GLBenchmark. If you were going to at least bring up a decent point, you could state how nVidia's solution supports things such as PhysX, which is why you see things like cloth-based doodads in Tegra Zone versions of the same game. Although, given that I play Borderlands 2 with PhysX and find said cloth-based doodads to be more of a hindrance, I am probably not missing much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenSkywalker

How about the new connector that they came up with to break every third party accessory that used the long standing iPod style connector. Is it bias to point out that Apple told all the accessory makers and users of those products that they decided that once again, they knew what was better and they didn't have a choice?

So, you're saying that Apple can never change a connector? People really need to get off that silly topic. If you don't want to lose your compatibility, then don't upgrade your device.

Hmmm, so out of the last three models Apple has introduced, none of them have the same resolution, none of them have the same SoC and they don't even share the same aspect ration. That is what you call 'fragmentation'. Apple is shattering the iOS market and only compounding it with each device they make.

This is all you have? Sigh...

1) The iPad Mini has the exact same internals and screen resolution as the iPad 2. This means it results in no change to developers.

2) I'm rather confused as to what's bad about the iPad 4? It's the exact same resolution as the iPad 3, which is just 4x the resolution (2x in each dimension) of the iPad 1/2. This is theoretically easier on developers because assets simply need to be doubled. Not to mention the A6X is actually far more sufficient at providing the graphic horsepower to match the resolution increase.

Also, take a look at the numbers, and keep in mind that the iPad 4 is about in parity with the iPhone 5 (at the native resolution of the respective device) in regard to performance. That is a good thing. That means that theoretically, a developer can design a game and expect it to run at about the same sort of performance on each device.

3) The iPhone 5 is potentially a messier situation because it doesn't provide such a rosy increase as mentioned above. At worst, developers simply leave the apps alone and they have black bars. This really just negates the screen size bonus of the phone for that specific app.

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Originally Posted by BenSkywalker

As I stated previously before the member of the Cult of Jobs jumped in- There is *FAR* too much fragmentation- even when looking *ONLY* at iOS devices for developers to get behind it the way they do the dedicated hand held consoles.

Yeah... not so much, and you may want to consider avoiding painting people in the color that you wish to see them. I own an iPhone because AT&T did not have any android devices in February of 2009. I replaced my old Windows Mobile 6.0 device with it, and I haven't had a desire to leave. I don't use Mac computers and have no desire to. I actually don't even like OSX.

I think it's a moot point asking whether the iPhone is the best system. It's certainly the system of choice for most now. Smart phones have been cannibalizing the traditional market for some time now.

There's been a big shift in gaming over the last decade. I'd peg 2005 as the start of it when the original DS was released. It marked a transition from deeper mobile games we saw on the Gameboy and GBA to a more casual environment. Sure, both those systems had casual games (Tetris) but the DS was the first to really appeal to casual gamers.

When the iPhone came out, it put gaming on a device that rivaled current portables in performance. It also significantly reduced the cost with most titles being $1-$10. Contrast that to most portables where games cost four times as much. It offered a slew of casual games with a touch interface like the DS, all available for instant download. The fact that it doesn't have buttons doesn't phase most people. The market for deep portable games has been fading for some time now.

The effects on current traditional portables have been pretty profound. The 3DS has done well but I don't think it's been what Nintendo had hoped. The Vita has been a pretty major flop for Sony, partly due to poor design choices. However, look at the games coming out for it. Of the few there are, most are substandard. Even big first party titles like Resistance. Developers just don't want to put the time and effort into traditional portables anymore. So that deep experience hardcore gamers crave doesn't exist on their systems of choice either.

__________________
"Callout portion of post removed, which left only "I'll be showing my girlfriend my massive penis..." Since that is obviously some kind of typo I deleted it as well." -- allisolm

The effects on current traditional portables have been pretty profound. The 3DS has done well but I don't think it's been what Nintendo had hoped. The Vita has been a pretty major flop for Sony, partly due to poor design choices. However, look at the games coming out for it. Of the few there are, most are substandard. Even big first party titles like Resistance. Developers just don't want to put the time and effort into traditional portables anymore. So that deep experience hardcore gamers crave doesn't exist on their systems of choice either.

What I liked about the DS was that the platform offered a variety of both casual, and in-depth games, and was able to appeal to a greater audience because of that. My dislike is the price gouging from it's casual games, and sadly, on the 3DS as well.

The 3DS also offers a number of in-depth games as well. Zelda: Ocarina of Time (never played the original) was quite a fantastic game that works well on the system. Paper Mario, while not quite as good as it's predecessors, I feel offers something for casuals and the hobbyist alike, though it's priced higher than I'd like. Resident Evil: Revelations deserves a mention as well, being pretty creepy, as well as pushing the system in visuals.

Unless batteries are developed with much greater capacities, I don't believe in depth gaming would work well on smartphones regardless of controls, simply because the phone would be pushed at full throttle for a lengthy period of time. Yes, current smartphones are more powerful, however, when you consider their hardware also consumes more power under full load, and the fact that you'd actually need the phone to be functioning for work, I feel it makes sense to carry a traditional gaming device if you want more than a casual game. As it is, the 3DS and the PS Vita are really pushing the minimum battery life of what I want for mobile gaming.

I think it's a moot point asking whether the iPhone is the best system. It's certainly the system of choice for most now. Smart phones have been cannibalizing the traditional market for some time now.

There's been a big shift in gaming over the last decade. I'd peg 2005 as the start of it when the original DS was released. It marked a transition from deeper mobile games we saw on the Gameboy and GBA to a more casual environment. Sure, both those systems had casual games (Tetris) but the DS was the first to really appeal to casual gamers.

When the iPhone came out, it put gaming on a device that rivaled current portables in performance. It also significantly reduced the cost with most titles being $1-$10. Contrast that to most portables where games cost four times as much. It offered a slew of casual games with a touch interface like the DS, all available for instant download. The fact that it doesn't have buttons doesn't phase most people. The market for deep portable games has been fading for some time now.

The effects on current traditional portables have been pretty profound. The 3DS has done well but I don't think it's been what Nintendo had hoped. The Vita has been a pretty major flop for Sony, partly due to poor design choices. However, look at the games coming out for it. Of the few there are, most are substandard. Even big first party titles like Resistance. Developers just don't want to put the time and effort into traditional portables anymore. So that deep experience hardcore gamers crave doesn't exist on their systems of choice either.

1) android destroys apple market share
2) the games suck and haven't rivaled any DS games.
3) the vita has good games but if people are too retarded to look beyond the same old crap every system has that is your problem. Not the Vita's problem. Little big planet, escape plan, persona 4, the fighters. All awesome titles. If you can't see that you're just blind.

Honestly, is your Elite title provided because you're elite at providing misinformation?

Did Apple remove Google Maps from iOS 6? Yes, they did.

Did Apple Maps provide directions so bad that Police were issuing warning to *save people's lives*? Yes, on both counts.

You can flat out lie in the name of your Lord, hallowed be Jobs name, but you should probably run back to your cult of Mac forum if you don't want to have your lies exposed.

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Ignoring their legitimacy, you bring up points that aren't even applicable to mobile gaming, and yet you expect me to take you seriously.

Did Apple remove one of the most popular apps from their devices because they felt like it? Yes, yes they did.

Are games apps that Apple could do the exact same thing for? Yes, yes they are.

Did Apple change their interface for hardware accessories and prevent third parties from using the long standing interface? Yes, yes they did. Do gaming devices ever use such a thing? Yes, yes they do.

All praise to be Jobs and all your other lunatic rantings don't change reality. Apple will screw companies over in a heart beat if they think it helps them. They have proven this many, many times.

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If you were going to at least bring up a decent point, you could state how nVidia's solution supports things such as PhysX, which is why you see things like cloth-based doodads in Tegra Zone versions of the same game.

Does too much exposure to Apple devices cause a dramatic reduction in IQ? Curious as that is an insanely stupid comment. All Tegra devices are pre G80 core, do not have hardware PhysX support and hence run entirely on the CPU and are not exclusive to nVidia SoCs.

Reality is about reality, not how great you can cheerlead someone.

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1) The iPad Mini has the exact same internals and screen resolution as the iPad 2. This means it results in no change to developers.

I was simply listing off the last three fragmented devices Apple has been shattering the iOS ecosystem with. We can also discuss the 960x640 devices, or the 480x320- so many fragments in the iOS ecosystem it is hard to know where to start.

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2) I'm rather confused as to what's bad about the iPad 4? It's the exact same resolution as the iPad 3, which is just 4x the resolution (2x in each dimension) of the iPad 1/2. This is theoretically easier on developers because assets simply need to be doubled.

If I was a moron I may think the same thing. So when trying to set a timed shader loop based on control interface for UI modification how do you handle the caching of the data structure on each device in an identical manner? That *is* the level of code optimization handheld consoles get, not a chance of it happening on the hyper fragmented iOS ecosystem.

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Also, take a look at the numbers

I have numbers that have the same level of credibility for you to look at-