That was a LA County Sheriff's vehicle in the front there. I bet half the reason there are so many vehicles there is at least 3 agencies showed up (LAPD, the Sheriff, and BHPD). Not to mention the damn renta-cops that are all over the area.

RoyBatty:DRIVER TAKE A STEP TO YOUR LEFTTAKE A STEP TO YOUR LEFTBACKUP TO MY VOICEBACKUPNOW IT'S JUST A JUMP TO THE LEFTAND THEN A STEP TO THE RIGHTWITH YOUR HANDS ON YOUR HIPSYOU BRING YOUR KNEES IN TIGHT

Seriously. If my local police department had the ability to waste a gazilion cruisers and a helicopter on a stolen car report, I'd be demanding a budget cut next election. That was totally over the top and crazy.

SirDigbyChickenCaesar:WildView: They shouldn't have weapons drawn or pointed, they must have been sick that day in class.

Never draw your weapon unless you intend to use itNever point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.

Having their hand on the pistol while it's holstered would have been an ample show of force.

I had to recite those lines and a few others each time I armed up for duty. It was printed on a card I had to carry with me at all times.

You obviously slept through felony traffic stop class because that is almost exactly how I was taught to do it.

Had the LEO's been informed that the suspect was armed and dangerous there would be reasonable expectation for deadly force and I would agree with you. I can't say what information was given to them as that was not provided in the video.

If a weapon is drawn you intend to use deadly force.

"Deadly force is force that person knows or should know will cause death or serious bodily harm. Deadly force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed."

RoyBatty:SirDigbyChickenCaesar: pudding7: Those were the most clear and concise instructions I've ever seen an officer give someone in a situation like that.

That is a textbook example of a felony traffic stop. That is how you get a suspect out of a stolen vehicle, someone matching the description leaving an armed robbery, known wanted violent felon, etc.

The key to getting the suspect into custody safely is clear, loud, simple instructions. They did a pretty good job here.

So there are all these squad cars there, and they are parked next to some houses/apartments/.... Whose job in that group is to make sure the cops are safe from the local neighbors?

I'd be a little worried seeing all these faces poking out of the windows and bushes.

This type of stop typically has atleast three officers. Cover, contact, and a third or pass-off.

The contact officer is giving the driver the instructions and moves them back to the cover officer to his/her right. That's the guy cuffing her. This guy does a quick pat down, gathers whatever intel he can regarding people in the vehicle and then passes them off to the third guy and retakes his cover position. Third guy searches again and then secures the suspect.

Repeat this process for all the occupants. Then cover/contact officers clear the vehicle.

Now let's say you are in a hostile area. Contact officer will draw down on the vehicle, cover officer scans from vehicle to surrounding area and the third guy covers the other two from behind. You do that until the required assistance arrives. This is called "being on cop time". Situation is secure but further action requires additional assets? wait. wait as long as it takes.

RoyBatty:DRIVER TAKE A STEP TO YOUR LEFTTAKE A STEP TO YOUR LEFTBACKUP TO MY VOICEBACKUPNOW IT'S JUST A JUMP TO THE LEFTAND THEN A STEP TO THE RIGHTWITH YOUR HANDS ON YOUR HIPSYOU BRING YOUR KNEES IN TIGHT

To the left, to the left, to the right, to the rightTo the front, to the front, to the back, to the backNow slide, slide, slide, slideNow slide, slide, slide, slide, come on come on

To the left, to the left, to the right, to the rightTo the front, to the front, to the back, to the backNow dip baby dip, come on let's dip baby dipDip baby dip, just dip baby dip baby dip just dip

SirDigbyChickenCaesar:This type of stop typically has atleast three officers. Cover, contact, and a third or pass-off.The contact officer is giving the driver the instructions and moves them back to the cover officer to his/her right. That's the guy cuffing her. This guy does a quick pat down, gathers whatever intel he can regarding people in the vehicle and then passes them off to the third guy and retakes his cover position. Third guy searches again and then secures the suspect.Repeat this process for all the occupants. Then cover/contact officers clear the vehicle.Now let's say you are in a hostile area. Contact officer will draw down on the vehicle, cover officer scans from vehicle to surrounding area and the third guy covers the other two from behind. You do that until the required assistance arrives. This is called "being on cop time". Situation is secure but further action requires additional assets? wait. wait as long as it takes

WildView:Had the LEO's been informed that the suspect was armed and dangerous there would be reasonable expectation for deadly force and I would agree with you. I can't say what information was given to them as that was not provided in the video

Then why are you talking?

All I know is that I know exactly what I am looking at. You know how I know? The officers only break cover to cuff the driver. If this was just a case of gun happy cops they would have charged the car.

Easily 10 cops taking cover behind their vehicles facing a vehicle with two occupants? There is a reasonable expectation that the people in the vehicle are armed and will use them.

I'm not talking, I'm typing. If you'll look carefully at this thread you'll see that you are typing as well. Unless you're one of the officers in the video you don't know all the facts either but you've put in your two cents.

I was taught not to jeapordize the lives of others by pointing a loaded weapon at citizens unless my life was in danger. Apparently our training was vastly different. I'm off to bed.

SirDigbyChickenCaesar:WildView: Had the LEO's been informed that the suspect was armed and dangerous there would be reasonable expectation for deadly force and I would agree with you. I can't say what information was given to them as that was not provided in the video

Then why are you talking?

All I know is that I know exactly what I am looking at. You know how I know? The officers only break cover to cuff the driver. If this was just a case of gun happy cops they would have charged the car.

Easily 10 cops taking cover behind their vehicles facing a vehicle with two occupants? There is a reasonable expectation that the people in the vehicle are armed and will use them.

WildView:I'm not talking, I'm typing. If you'll look carefully at this thread you'll see that you are typing as well. Unless you're one of the officers in the video you don't know all the facts either but you've put in your two cents.

I was taught not to jeapordize the lives of others by pointing a loaded weapon at citizens unless my life was in danger. Apparently our training was vastly different. I'm off to bed.

RoyBatty:DRIVER TAKE A STEP TO YOUR LEFTTAKE A STEP TO YOUR LEFTBACKUP TO MY VOICEBACKUPNOW IT'S JUST A JUMP TO THE LEFTAND THEN A STEP TO THE RIGHTWITH YOUR HANDS ON YOUR HIPSYOU BRING YOUR KNEES IN TIGHT

StoPPeRmobile:SirDigbyChickenCaesar: StoPPeRmobile: Why are cops allowed to lie to suspects?

/Isn't that a commandment?

Why shouldn't they be able to? Give me one valid reason I can't use a lie to break through a suspects lie? (and for the record, I answer to the constitution, not the commandments)

Man I have never been there, I couldn't have killed that guyThen why did I find your fingerprints there? (lie)Ok, maybe I was there earlier that day but I didn't kill that guy

We are a Christian nation. Founded in Christian principles.

John 7:8-10 "You go to the Feast. I am not yet going up to this Feast, because for me the right time has not yet come." Having said this, he stayed in Galilee. However, after his brothers had left for the Feast, he went also, not publicly, but in secret

Music to my ears. Just curious - as a cop, do you agree with the assessment that in the last few decades there has been an effort to "militarize" the police in some place? Sometimes I feel like I see that, but other times I don't.

Why shouldn't they be able to? Give me one valid reason I can't use a lie to break through a suspects lie? (and for the record, I answer to the constitution, not the commandments)

Man I have never been there, I couldn't have killed that guyThen why did I find your fingerprints there? (lie)Ok, maybe I was there earlier that day but I didn't kill that guy

We are a Christian nation. Founded in Christian principles.

John 7:8-10 "You go to the Feast. I am not yet going up to this Feast, because for me the right time has not yet come." Having said this, he stayed in Galilee. However, after his brothers had left for the Feast, he went also, not publicly, but in secret

Triumph:SirDigbyChickenCaesar: and for the record, I answer to the constitution,

Music to my ears. Just curious - as a cop, do you agree with the assessment that in the last few decades there has been an effort to "militarize" the police in some place? Sometimes I feel like I see that, but other times I don't.

I would need to know an outsiders definition of militarize. By structure all police departments are paramilitary organizations to start so many might think they are military already. Here is my take and also the take of a lot of people and departments.

In a military organization you keep your "soft" troops in the back and the harder ones on the front lines. An effective police force should be the opposite. The front line patrol officer should be trained interact with the population effectively. Now that can vary from mayberry to the wire in a single jurisdiction but the officer needs to be aware of how to handle each situation. Communication is the key to effective community policing. They to us and us to them we need to effectively communicate what is going on.

In the course of an investigation walk up to a guy in the area of the crime and say:

"Hey, come over here I want to ask you what you know about so and so..."versus what I do"Afternoon sir, I am (my name) with (my department), can I ask you about what has been going on around here lately?" That allows this guy to vent about whatever he wants for a few minutes.."I appreciate that sir, can I ask about the robbery of the drug store, have you heard anything about that?"

You are going to get two different sets of information

Here's the kicker, that five minute rant he had about sanitation or zoning or lack of patrols? I send an email off to that department requesting that they contact him to discuss it. I helped him, he helped me.That is community policing.

That being said, I don't operate in the "inner city" environment where they exchange gunfire every other day. My opinion of how things should be wouldn't change but I doubt they would be effective.

I was thinking more of how things like the G8 Summit or the RNC and DNC conventions are dealt with these days. They set up small "free speech" zones, big "holding areas" for mass arrests and the police gear is getting very stormtrooperish. You mentioned the Constitution - can we really limit free speech to zones?

Triumph:SirDigbyChickenCaesar: I would need to know an outsiders definition of militarize.

I was thinking more of how things like the G8 Summit or the RNC and DNC conventions are dealt with these days. They set up small "free speech" zones, big "holding areas" for mass arrests and the police gear is getting very stormtrooperish. You mentioned the Constitution - can we really limit free speech to zones?

Triumph:some_beer_drinker: dont we get that everyday. show me a cop, and i'll show you an asshole.

hate cops.

See - I don't think I could be a cop, because they're asked to be like Jesus. No matter how much you hate them, they're not supposed to hate you back.

Agreed

I have nothing but respect for cops. Admittedly, as a white male living in a predominantly white country my experiences have been relatively positive. If I was native, I might not be so positive. For the most part though, when it comes to the RCMP, you will get what give. If you're polite and do what is asked of you, 99 percent of the time they will be courteous and helpful back.

At the same time, the old boys club (lying to cover their mistakes or their partners mistakes) makes me want to puke.

UncleStumpy:Triumph: some_beer_drinker: dont we get that everyday. show me a cop, and i'll show you an asshole.

hate cops.

See - I don't think I could be a cop, because they're asked to be like Jesus. No matter how much you hate them, they're not supposed to hate you back.

Agreed

I have nothing but respect for cops. Admittedly, as a white male living in a predominantly white country my experiences have been relatively positive. If I was native, I might not be so positive. For the most part though, when it comes to the RCMP, you will get what give. If you're polite and do what is asked of you, 99 percent of the time they will be courteous and helpful back.

At the same time, the old boys club (lying to cover their mistakes or their partners mistakes) makes me want to puke.

the RCMP threw my friend down some stairs and broke his legs because he refused to give them a name. thugs.