I'm in a pondering mood about where we come from and more imortantly, what part do we play in the big picture and WHAT purpose does our existance make, serve or accomplish. Personally, I believe we are CONSCIENCE PEOPLE experiencing a PHYSICAL world as part of the TOAL LIFE PACKAGE, I don't think you'd want to choose either one against the other but here goes a few theories as I see them. I think my statement above is like saying you can't see the light without the dark in a photo - they are two separt things in the same space both in paintings and in life. Our conscience being is "velcro-ed to the physcical body, like colors blend on a spage, or were the level and still water on a flat pont meets the air - an unimaginable closeness that makes the two seem as one - althought I believe the two are very unique

Let's chat on the FOUR modern day concepts of the choices from an exclusive list: HOW WE GOT HERE!

Intervention is a fancy way to say that we exist as life on this plant (whether evolved from lower species or finally as life which came in a package (which held) ALL the current species and extinct life.

This could come from SEVERAL PLACES including I believe a Deity, who chose to give us (and all species have DEVELOPED ABILITY TO SUSTAIN LIFE FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS and "ALL interacting in the FOOD CHAIN OF LIFE's - which does quite well when MAN leaves it alone.

Although, we are pretty "up there" in the intellegent and coordinated species with the ability to kill and destroy, breed and hatch ALL CREATURES practically at will in the WORLD'S ZOOs. Even humans have the ability to save itself in catastrophic situations such as world wars, diseases like Polio and no antibiotics. Just because we use tools to kill and process our need for meat of other animals (just think of the chicken, steaks, seafood and pork that is intaked daily in the world. I seriously think that makes us the top of the food chain (unless corneered by a lion - lol)

All creatures are NOW fully delevoped to Near perfected spectialties (poisonous fangs, camoflague skins, the abilities to fly to exscape, etc. Could someone have DROPPED US OFF from Alien crft. possibly for "Humanitarian reasons to all the species.

Possible PLANETARY population of MILLIONS OF CREATURE SPECIES and knew that Earth would make a perfect place to send those species. Thus, INTERVENTION has many possibilies and is an interesting choice when that means a near duplicate planet or contributing species exist somewhere else out in the universe - at least as species are concerned. This or THESE cooperative species had the ability to (in some for, possibly just DNA) which is introduced into a MOTHER CREATURE or series of them who's job is to MOTHER the various speicies ONCE the craft arrived. Just immagine a single beast, fed with the data of every creature is sent here and she mothers all life over her 4 million year life span.

Imagine a queen bee laying more than bees (actually spawning a sample of all life onto land, water and see) now HOLD ON.... On that other planet, the name of the "great mother species" spouting generations as far back as life on this planet, was named GOD, there word for GIVER OF LIFE. Wow, pretty heavy and THAT was one of a million theories concerning how Intervent MIGHT have happened. A long time ago, there was only one continent - so the mother creature just had to spawn life on land, fresh water and saltwater, and later the movements of the continents and the balance of the food chain - a few hundred million years, here we are.

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Statistically, we are at a high in hits to the forum (server insider info stuff) THE DARK SIDE has a real following normally, but people are thinking holidays NOT aliens right now, I guess :)

I plan on following up on the different theories soon, just been doing the holiday thing myself lately.

I do though believe that eventually science will prove that God exists - blowing a hole in the outlook of many scientist's minds! Imagine ONE extreme formula that explains how ALL THINGS can ONLY EXIST through the creation of a superior being.

I'm a firm believer that the Universe is filled with life of unimaginable shapes and sizes. We think in fairly simple terms. it walks, crawls, flys or swims, but image if there are many many other possibilities in which species can move such as through time, through radio spectrums and lightwave shifting. To me, we are very hindered by the BELIEF that we only have FIVE senses - what a horrible thing to teach our children: if (as a species) we taught our young that clarvoient, telepathic and other senses were possible, maybe they could develop those senses as keenly as they do the accepted five!

For one, I believe that there is a HUGE possibility that we may have be teraformed here on Earth from some other planet, for whatever reason - ideally, for the sake of evolving into a conscience creature capable of unlimited skill and ability.

I do believe in God, and I don't think anything I said above contradicts with the ability of having a God. After all, to a goldfish, God is the one sprinkling the fish food - we are very arrogant to think we are so superior to the simpler species on this planet - I believe one thing above all others: we are here to experience the physical world, we are conscience creatures (spirits or souls if perfer) here NOT AS A TEST, but allowed to exist to be able to have something to compare our conscience existance to.

Artists will tell you that "you can only see the light when compared to the dark" just think of a bright yellow/orange sunset and how brilliant the color is - it almost appears as if it is backlit. But that is because the other colors are dark and muted, and in comparison the yellow is THAT much brighter. I think our life on Earth is much like that, we are experiencing the dark so that our conscience after-life is all the much brighter.

There is a Tai-Chi thing in everything, you can't truely know how "feeling well" is until you have experienced being sick, etc.. So God gives us this world, a simple little planet within a small solar system, within an average sized galaxy in an obscure and isolated part of the Universe. I can only image trillions of other obscure planets throughout the Universe, all at different stages of development and I believe many of them have evolved to the next step in evolution where the ability to go OUT OF BODY is as easy as just thinking of it, traveling anywhere by just wishing it and existing in a reality that is unknown and unimaginable to us as the creatures in the deep seas of our own planet.

One thing is for sure; if we are ever to see other planets, it won't be by physical propulsion as our top NASA brains invision it today - we need a paradgym shift in the way we travel and I'm pretty sure it involve OBE in some way or maybe a wormhole generator.

It would be interesting if we some day create a device that works like a router/hub opening an on-ramp to an existing super-galactic highway. It would indeed be a RIGHT TO PASSAGE for humanity, just imagine US on the same super-highway as a few million other advanced species - sweet.

Of course, by time we are paying the toll for the on-ramp, the super-galactic highway will be an antiquated means of getting around and we'll need to borrow newer technology to use the faster routers. I wish us well as a species, I do believe we are VERY YOUNG in the grand scheme of things and we have barely tasted what is possible.

I look at my new MP3 player, a 6GB player which realistically holds about 2500 or so songs - imagine a juke-box large enough to hold THAT many records and then look at the size of todays mp3 players. NO ONE could have imagined back in the 50s and 60s of such technology, but today you can find 1500 players, all affordable to the average Joe. Again, you need to think out-side-the-box, a paradgym shift creates new technology and over-night the new technology is standard and common-place.

Some day, we will not even be able to imagine a world where OUT OF BODY TRAVEL didn't exist - just as kids can't image a world without the Internet existing. It only takes ONE generation to make Magical inventions to seem common. I heard on MSNBC that 80% of all polled 5th graders had no idea what a type-writer or word-processor was. Image (and take my word for it) someday people will have to look in a dictionary to find out what the Internet was, because I'm sure there will be a better and far advanced way to communicated info, so much so that the Internet will go the way of 8 track tapes (8 track what???) lol.

MERRY CHRISTMAS and more in the DARKSIDE, I'm very comfortable in this forum, I know others are too!!!!

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I do though believe that eventually science will prove that God exists - blowing a hole in the outlook of many scientist's minds! Imagine ONE extreme formula that explains how ALL THINGS can ONLY EXIST through the creation of a superior being.

Once we prove God exists, is there anything else to discover? I spend many hours thinking about items like this and I ofter wonder about this. I beleive God gave us great gifts and he has made mankind explorers so that we continuolsy seek him and seek more.

I don't think it will ever happen. So many people are looking for a scientic answer to a faith based question. Having faith goes beyond believing. I know God exists. I see Him in the faces of everyone I meet. I know His Love and have received His forgiveness. The Holy Spirit makes it clear to me.

Personally I do believe in my God. Although He may be different things to different people. Actually a very good holiday theme John,after all Christmas is a celebration of Christ's birthday. Funny thing ---I have just finished reading the current issue of a popular beekeeping mag ,and lo and behold--It addresses the state of beekeeping science.

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Theodore Stuegeon,an American science fiction writer,once observed that 95% of everything is crap.John Ioannidis,a Greek epidemiologist,would not go that far.His benchmark is 50%.

This can apply to all scientific studies in question, according to this article and it did indeed result in some strong responses. HOORAY for free thinking and the common sense God gave to a goose!!!!!!!!!!! Keep writing here and I will keep listening.

I just reread my post(the one before this one) I hope I did not offend anyone-I was simply referring to scientific studies,not the opinions anyone has expressed here. Sometimes when I reread my own posts I see that I was not specific enough and my thoughts may be misenterpreted. So sorry about my lack of forsight. Frank

I have a lengthy collection of OBE related content I posted at Coast to coast aM (Coast-riders) Forum and I'll repost them here ASAP (like as soon as I finish typing this, along with the replies from the other posters there.

I don't think it anti-Christian or against any belief to either question or try to futher understand how creationism or (what other methods) God may have used to make us who we are.

I don't think anything I write will turn me into a pile of ashes and hopefully NOT offend anyone - I think I even say often that I believe that ALL religions of GOOD INTENTION are on the right track toward understanding the big-picture, something I'm always seeking and I can only do that by keeping a VERY open mind to all possibilities.

To the non-believer, saying that FAITH is the basis for Christianity is scape-goated reply used to twart their non-believers creed. I'd much rather pray to a God and be wrong, then to ignore or shun a God and be wrong: that just makes sense whether talking religion or anything else in life that requires faith.

I have faith in my wife - that she will come home every night. I trust her with ALL THINGS in my mind EXCEPT those I have shared with God (who I believed is better at handling issues that could strecth my wife's understanding of my own human failures.) Thus, I have a multi-faith system, one I can see, one I can feel - and after all, we have many senses for a reason, it's nice to flex them all occasionally :)

I'll reprint the posts in a separate article in this forum, you WON'T miss it - I look forward to your thoughts. Last thought, I'm a simple man, just seeking why we are here and hoping that my beliefs are right, but also looking to see if OTHER belifs have credibility too AND IF SO, what similarities do the beliefs have and WHAT caused the differences in the first place.

I guess I'm a fan of the human race, it's ability to evolve techology, grow in spirit and (at least I hope) always strive to be the best human we can be and I measure that (more than any other means) by our ability to be good to others.

Please enjoy the forum, and if it has helped you in any way, we hope that a small donation can be made to support our FULLY member supported forum. You will never see advertisements here, and that is because of the generous members who have made our forum possible. We are in our second decade as a beekeeping forum and all thanks to member support. At the top right of every page is a donations link. Please help if you can.