If Dunta is making veiled criticism of Carr, I don't blame him. Carr was horrible today and his play was inexcusably bad. This may be evidence
DC has lost the respect of some/most of his teammates.

OzzO

12-17-2006, 09:50 PM

Hmm... maybe a "Sharper II" concerning leadership.... and maybe it wasn't directed at the coaching staff the first go around?

thetexanator

12-17-2006, 09:52 PM

gary walker trashed carr also.

Tulip

12-17-2006, 09:53 PM

I saw that, and I thought the same thing.

Carr put the defense in a horrible position today, and I'm not sure they could have done much better given the circumstances. I could see why Dunta was frustrated.

Tulip

12-17-2006, 09:54 PM

gary walker trashed carr also.

I don't remember that. What did he say?

thegr8fan

12-17-2006, 09:55 PM

not to mention the Bob McNair comments about not keeping a veteran or two on the team to provide leadership.

it is becoming quite apparent that Carr isn't providing any leadership on the team. but it is hard to lead a team when your the worst player on it and 'graced' the position, no matter how badly you stink it up weekly.

TheIronDuke

12-17-2006, 09:56 PM

I don't see anything in that quote that even closely resembles mentioning Carr in any way, shape, or form. I mean, he just said "something needs to be fixed," I think you're reading a bit too much into the statement.

And that's unfortunate since I wish that there would be one player who would call DC out and make it obvious.

Runner

12-17-2006, 09:59 PM

I think that quote is vague enough that anyone can spin it to fit their favorite pet peeve.

CowboysTexansFan

12-17-2006, 09:59 PM

I don't see anything in that quote that even closely resembles mentioning Carr in any way, shape, or form. I mean, he just said "something needs to be fixed," I think you're reading a bit too much into the statement.

And that's unfortunate since I wish that there would be one player who would call DC out and make it obvious.

Who, or what, could have possibly been the problem out there today other than Carr? To me, it's reasonable to believe he was referring to DC, but didn't want to be blatant about it because the team (Kubiak) may want any internal dissent kept in-house.

Johnny Utah

12-17-2006, 10:01 PM

Look at this quote by Carr from the same blog.

Is it fair to say there'll be no vertical passing game until your protection is better?

Carr:
I tried to force the issue. A couple of times, I was kind of getting hit and throwing it. I tried to do too much. I should have just checked the ball down. When we're down like that, I'm trying to win a football game. I'm tired of being close. I'm tired of playing good and losing by 20. It doesn't matter what the score was. We lost... I know I can play the game. How we've lost these games is frustrating.

I'm tired of playing good and losing by 20?

Runner

12-17-2006, 10:04 PM

Who, or what, could have possibly been the problem out there today other than Carr?

I can think of a few off the top of my head. I'm sure the board could come up with a few more. In no particular order:

Who, or what, could have possibly been the problem out there today other than Carr? To me, it's reasonable to believe he was referring to DC, but didn't want to be blatant about it because the team (Kubiak) may want any internal dissent kept in-house.

Hmmm, I don't know, but maybe it would be better if the Patriots Defensive players were actually blocked instead of allowed to come straight up the middle for a 7 yard sack. I could be wrong but that just might be considered a problem on any team in the NFL.

thetexanator

12-17-2006, 10:04 PM

I saw that, and I thought the same thing.

Carr put the defense in a horrible position today, and I'm not sure they could have done much better given the circumstances. I could see why Dunta was frustrated.

when gary was here he would often criticize the offense and he got into davids face a couple of games

BattleRedToro

12-17-2006, 10:06 PM

Look at this quote by Carr from the same blog.

I'm tired of playing good and losing by 20?

He is talking about putting up good passing stats but losing the game. That means he would rather win than have good stats.

Tulip

12-17-2006, 10:07 PM

Look at this quote by Carr from the same blog.

I'm tired of playing good and losing by 20?

Is he talking about his 219 yard performance against Indy or his 128 yard performance against Dallas? Because that's the only two times (other than today, which he obviously can NOT be talking about) the Texans have lost by that large of a margin.

TheIronDuke

12-17-2006, 10:07 PM

Who, or what, could have possibly been the problem out there today other than Carr? To me, it's reasonable to believe he was referring to DC, but didn't want to be blatant about it because the team (Kubiak) may want any internal dissent kept in-house.

I agree, but he veiled his statements too much. I want someone on the team to call out DC and make it loud and clear. That's why loudmouths like TO or Chad Johnson can sometimes help a team out. What would be the best is for AJ to say something, anything, to give us some sense that they see the problem.

BattleRedToro

12-17-2006, 10:09 PM

I agree, but he veiled his statements too much. I want someone on the team to call out DC and make it loud and clear. That's why loudmouths like TO or Chad Johnson can sometimes help a team out. What would be the best is for AJ to say something, anything, to give us some sense that they see the problem.

If AJ wants to point fingers he can start with himself for dropping critical passes and failing to make plays late in the games when it counts, and if anybody needs to be called out it is the entire Offensive Line.

CowboysTexansFan

12-17-2006, 10:15 PM

I agree, but he veiled his statements too much. I want someone on the team to call out DC and make it loud and clear. That's why loudmouths like TO or Chad Johnson can sometimes help a team out. What would be the best is for AJ to say something, anything, to give us some sense that they see the problem.

If some players are very dissatisfied, I'm not sure a player will call out Carr on the record, but I suspect articles will start appearing that cite "unnamed" sources or players as a basis for whatever is written.

Oilersfan

12-17-2006, 10:18 PM

He should have said problems, including himself. I can remember him being torched by opposing recievers on more than one occasioin.

Silver Oak

12-17-2006, 10:18 PM

Not to throw Robinson under the bus, but maybe the problem is how he let Gaffney get free in the end zone.

hot pickle

12-17-2006, 10:21 PM

atleast dunta knows the problem and at least someone is speakin out about it

so Mr. McNair...

LISTEN TO THE PLAYERS

profan

12-17-2006, 10:24 PM

it's about time. This locker room needs some players to be vocal. They need to let everyone know their tired of this crap. Any other player that turns in these type of performances are benched, but golden boy gets a free ride.

hot pickle

12-17-2006, 10:28 PM

now if the texans release dunta for sayin this, i will have lost my respect for the texans, and i will follow my boy were ever he goes, and hes been quiet long enough, now hes voicin his opinion/truth and its time for change, i really dont wanna see number 8 behind center for the rest of the season

BattleRedToro

12-17-2006, 10:30 PM

it's about time. This locker room needs some players to be vocal. They need to let everyone know their tired of this crap. Any other player that turns in these type of performances are benched, but golden boy gets a free ride.

Really? I haven't seen ONE Offensive Lineman get benched yet, and their performance was nothing to be proud of.

TheIronDuke

12-17-2006, 10:30 PM

Trust me, the Texans won't be releasing their #1 CB for saying something.

BattleRedToro

12-17-2006, 10:32 PM

now if the texans release dunta for sayin this, i will have lost my respect for the texans, and i will follow my boy were ever he goes, and hes been quiet long enough, now hes voicin his opinion/truth and its time for change, i really dont wanna see number 8 behind center for the rest of the season

I really don't want to see Dunta give up anymore TD's either. He can start by working on that, and after he has fixed that problem then he can move on to work on fixing other players's problems.

CowboysTexansFan

12-17-2006, 10:32 PM

now if the texans release dunta for sayin this, i will have lost my respect for the texans, and i will follow my boy were ever he goes, and hes been quiet long enough, now hes voicin his opinion/truth and its time for change, i really dont wanna see number 8 behind center for the rest of the season

I can't imagine the team releasing Dunta over this quote. He's only stating the obvious, which is that Carr is hurting the team and has to be replaced. Having said that, because Sage is on IR, the team has no choice but to play Carr the last 2 games. After that, I believe he's history...

hot pickle

12-17-2006, 10:37 PM

I can't imagine the team releasing Dunta over this quote. He's only stating the obvious, which is that Carr is hurting the team and has to be replaced. Having said that, because Sage is on IR, the team has no choice but to play Carr the last 2 games. After that, I believe he's history...

we still have van pelt, but i hear he isnt doin to good durin the week, but i want to see quinten porter, just to see what he can do, you never know till you give him a chance

BattleRedToro

12-17-2006, 10:42 PM

I can't imagine the team releasing Dunta over this quote. He's only stating the obvious, which is that Carr is hurting the team and has to be replaced. Having said that, because Sage is on IR, the team has no choice but to play Carr the last 2 games. After that, I believe he's history...

Actually he never stated that. He might have alluded to that but noone but Dunta really knows what he was talking about.

ESAD2-14

12-17-2006, 10:43 PM

He should have said problems, including himself. I can remember him being torched by opposing recievers on more than one occasioin.

That can probably be attributed to fatigue from being on the field so much.

Carr has no leadership ability what so ever, his only flash was during the Giants game, right after his first benching. Every game after that he looks so uninterested in doing his job.

jerek

12-17-2006, 10:45 PM

I think that quote is vague enough that anyone can spin it to fit their favorite pet peeve.

Thanks for stating the obvious -- and I mean that, since it's evident in reading many of these posts that people need to be spoon fed the obvious. I opened this thread to see if Dunta might really have been trashing Carr. Are you kidding me? He couldn't have been any more vague. Way to spin it with an assumption for a title.

Runner

12-17-2006, 10:48 PM

Your welcome.

BattleRedToro

12-17-2006, 10:49 PM

That can probably be attributed to fatigue from being on the field so much.

Carr has no leadership ability what so ever, his only flash was during the Giants game, right after his first benching. Every game after that he looks so uninterested in doing his job.

This whole leadership crapola is so overrated. We are talking about professional athletes. As professionals there job should be motivation enough, and if anyone should be yelling at them it should be their coaches not their teammates.

the wonger need food

12-17-2006, 11:11 PM

Unless you still have a crush on Carr, there is no way that this quote can be misread. It is directed at the player that lost another game for this team. I'm sure the guys that have been around Davie are for years are pretty well fed up with his horrible play.

Runner

12-17-2006, 11:18 PM

IMO it was about Carr. However, like anyone else it is just an opinion. I'm just pointing out that it isn't a fact - yet.

I almost wish that the players would quit beating around the bush and start speaking up to precipitate change If it doesn't work privately, then publicly. I'm getting tired of these lock step soldeirs just marching off to lose like good little boys.

dirty steve

12-17-2006, 11:18 PM

I think that quote is vague enough that anyone can spin it to fit their favorite pet peeve.
right on. it's not like dunta came out and said "#8 is the problem." he probably has his own soul-searching to do also.

TEXANS84

12-17-2006, 11:23 PM

gary walker trashed carr also.

As a former client of mine, Gary trashed the ex-coaching staff. I never heard him say anything bad about Carr.

Second Honeymoon

12-17-2006, 11:35 PM

Long overdue. Very happy with Dunta right about now and I am sure he is a hero amongst the locker room and media...but im sure not very liked by McNair and the myopic FO.

#Ocho

12-17-2006, 11:49 PM

Bradlee Van Pelt is incredibly athletic and he has speed almost like Vick. Since sportsline.com gameday is the only practical way to "watch" Texans games out here, I think Kubiak is assessing the team this year and will make changes next year.

mganz

12-18-2006, 12:04 AM

come on guys! was there any part of the game that the Texans did good at today. But they did rush for 100+ yards.

Defense=sucked
OL=sucked
DC=sucked
AJ=sucked
Chad=continued to suck

the only "bright spot" was Dayne

they just played like s**t today

Mr teX

12-18-2006, 12:07 AM

I don't think that he was going at Carr, but since were throwing around blame, what about last week when a guy named Drew Bennett ate him for lunch? Was it a problem that needed to be fixed then Dunta?

Hey buddy, i don't know if you've noticed but you're all stinkin' right about now.

Hottoddie

12-18-2006, 12:14 AM

You guys are pathetic & really reaching for a chance to slam Carr some more. No where in that statement does it indicate any one player as the culprit. This whole team is at fault & replacing Carr will not fix all the problems.

After being repeatedly torched & giving up 6 receptions for 113 yards to Bennett a couple of weeks ago, Dunta shouldn't be calling anyone out.

Goatcheese

12-18-2006, 12:14 AM

I think that quote is vague enough that anyone can spin it to fit their favorite pet peeve.

It seems clear to me he's pointing out the lack of ice cream vendors on the Texans side line as the cause of all their troubles. They need to fix this A.S.A.P.

thegr8fan

12-18-2006, 12:22 AM

That ain't for me to say.which part of this sentence makes you think that he is talking about anything other than Carr, probably the only player on the team who is untouchable when it comes to critiques by fellow teammembers.

you Carr Homers have a hard time swallowing that crow pie your eating, or something?

Second Honeymoon

12-18-2006, 12:22 AM

Look at this quote by Carr from the same blog.

Is it fair to say there'll be no vertical passing game until your protection is better?

Carr:
I tried to force the issue. A couple of times, I was kind of getting hit and throwing it. I tried to do too much. I should have just checked the ball down. When we're down like that, I'm trying to win a football game. I'm tired of being close. I'm tired of playing good and losing by 20. It doesn't matter what the score was. We lost... I know I can play the game. How we've lost these games is frustrating.

I'm tired of playing good and losing by 20?

hahaha playing good? when David?!?!? when?!?!

man that quote irks me to no end. by the way, that was him throwing his teammates under the bus.....

David is done in this town and the longer the Texans wait to get rid of him the more ugly this is gonna get...

he has had like 10 good quarters of football in 5 years..im happy his quotes are showing him to be the spoiled and petulant child that he is

we need a Christmas miracle.....

Goatcheese

12-18-2006, 12:26 AM

I'm tired of playing good and losing by 20

Unless he is talking about the Texans as a whole Kubiak needs to lay the pimp hand down and smack a *****.

mean mark8

12-18-2006, 12:42 AM

I love Carr's quote about losing by 20. That's the only time he's been able to pad his stats all year. We haven't won one game because of him this year. We have lost some because of him though. Anyone remember how Sage came in with 1 and a half quarter left and toasted the worst defense in the league? Anyone see Carr's effort in that first game and this last? Anyone realize that LT is only 40 points shy of our entire offense's point output for the year?

For those of you trashing Dunta, we only have 2 heat seeking missiles on our defense: D-Rob and Ryans. They attack the ball while the rest wait for the offensive player to come to them, like that's what the offensive player wants to do. IMO only D-Rob and Ryans would be grabbed-up quick by the rest of the league and Mario would finish next because of "potential." You remember potential. That's what Carr had that vanished somewhere during his 3rd year.

bigTEXan8

12-18-2006, 01:36 AM

dunta needs to take a good long look in the mirror if he's going to start throwing around what needs to be fixed, that is if he was blaming carr directly. i don't think anyone on the team is stupid enough to blame just one person.

whotex8

12-18-2006, 02:01 AM

?Are you kidding me?
I must have overlooked the really minute, microscopic, fine print in this one.
This really just proves that every reader's interpretations are so different from everyone elses.

CowboysTexansFan

12-18-2006, 02:03 AM

Those of you saying that Robinson's statements were not aimed at Carr need to read Justice's new article.

Here is an excerpt:

"First, Dunta Robinson. He sat steaming in front of his locker for almost a half-hour after the game. Public relations staffers, perhaps remembering his blowup in Baltimore last year, kept reporters away until Robinson had showered and had a chance to cool down.

Except he hadn't cooled down. And when he began to talk, he came very close to calling out one of his teammates.

"We've got a problem," he said, "and until we fix the problem, things will continue to be this way."

What's the problem?

"That ain't for me to say," Robinson answered. "All I can say is that when you're a 4-10 team, you've got a lot of problems. Until we step up and say what the problem is, then it's not going to get better."

When one of the television guys quoted Carr as saying he was "sick and tired of being sick and tired," Robinson bristled.

"If you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, put a stop to it," he said.

Robinson's words may not have been a direct knock at Carr, but they came very close."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/4409111.html

While I agree Robinson didn't come out and name Carr directly, that surely is the implication Justice is trying to convey. The latest piece makes that even more clear. Keep in mind that his actually being in the locker room allows him to better gauge Robinson's sentiments than those of us trying to read the tea leaves from home.

DontTreadOnMe

12-18-2006, 02:41 AM

i think dunta was talking about demeco... and if you ask me, its well deserved!

brewhaus

12-18-2006, 05:33 AM

Dunta did not call anyone's name. That is a good thing because if he did something as stupid as that, Kubiak would probably consider trading HIS a**. The players on the team had better open their eyes and realize these times are "Character Builders" and this is a storm they all need to ride out together. The slackers will be gone next season and what they say right now could determine if they are here or gone next season too.
:twocents:

TheOgre

12-18-2006, 07:50 AM

It is getting to a ridiculous point. Carr really needs to move on this offseason (whether through trade or even a cut). It really has gotten to a ridiculous level here.

BattleRedToro

12-18-2006, 07:54 AM

It really has gotten to a ridiculous level here.

I agree. Giving one player all the credit or blame for the outcome of a team game is ridiculous, especially when the whole team played horrible.

HomeBred_Texan

12-18-2006, 08:18 AM

I think that quote is vague enough that anyone can spin it to fit their favorite pet peeve.

I agree. Spin away, he didn't mention one name, but everyone is inserting a name...

NederlandTexan

12-18-2006, 08:23 AM

I agree. Spin away, he didn't mention one name, but everyone is inserting a name...

Just for grins, why don't you insert a name? Who else could he possibly be talking about?

:slap: Come on... I'm no "Carr homer" but how can any reasonable person sit there and say that Dunta was trashing Carr???????? That's a big stretch... He could've been talking about any number of things.... yeah, yeah the offense had a horrible day and Carr looked really bad but not a single one of us knows what he was talking about... Dunta should sue you guys.... if that's what he really meant then he should grow a pair and come out and say it. What's he got to lose?? Are they going to cut him?? If he thinks that things are that bad then he should be begging to get cut unless he thinks that nobody else will pick him up. All the players on the team need to start airing their dirty laundry in the public view..... maybe then we can make some real educated complaints...

Obviously something is and has been going on with the Texans for sometime and the reality/problem is that nobody outside of the Texans locker room knows what it really is. Is it the owners? managers? coaches? Janitors? Players? Maybe it's the jerseys because everybody that takes off a Texans jersey and puts on a different jersey seems to do just fine after floundering under our system.

:rant: When Carr has shined people said that he was allowed to call his own plays?? Is this true, who knows? I don't... but I do know that I see a lot of chicken **** play calling on both sides of the ball. I see 0 adjustments after half time... the run play is making progress now because we have "Big Mac" Dayne plowing through people... and that seems to be our coaching philosophy..... don't build your offense to the players' strengths but force feed them something that obviously is not working for them............. It doesn't matter if Dayne or Lundy is in there running the ball the play calling is the same...

texan's blue

12-18-2006, 08:50 AM

Just for grins, why don't you insert a name? Who else could he possibly be talking about?

How about Mario for not getting more sacks or Ryans for not being a bigger part of this game or the Kubes for calling an idiotic fake punt play with 4 and a half yard or the receivers for not coming back to the ball and trying to make plays on it.... I'm just providing fuel for this inferno...

thunderkyss

12-18-2006, 08:52 AM

from the first quote... I wouldn't have thought Dunta was talking about David.

The first three & out had nothing to do with David, we tried to run the ball three consecutive times...... no gain....... nine yards...... no gain....

The INT was an amazing play by Seymour....

The second INT was an amazing play by Bruschi(who'd have thunk that old fart could still jump that high).

The first sack..... David motioned Owen(or Walther) out to the right. The Pats looked like they called off their Blitz. Then David Motioned Dayne out to the Left....... he didn't see the LB come down outside of Winston, do he didn't know the blitz was back on. Winston called it out, & took the LB, but Weary didn't get it. He took on the DE, and bumped him onto Winston(who was blocking two guys at that time) then went to go help Hogdon. That was a seven step drop, and David was going down field, like we wanted...... but there was a free rusher he didn't see/account for. Maybe he should have seen it......... but David's not the first QB NewEngland & Belichick(sp??) has fooled.

I'm not trying to stick up for Carr..... that's not my point. My point is that he did what he was supposed to do, but got beat... by a defense that beats QBs on a regular basis.

Did Carr have a great game?? no....... but the only people expecting him to are lost Carr Homers, and BobMcNair.

If I were Dunta, and I made a statement like that, I would have been pointing the finger at the defense... most notably #23...... (I'm going to start calling him AD....... for all day, that's how often the Pats receivers we beating him).

Our weakness is coverage..... & it's not just the LBs...... the Safeties, the Corners..... no one on this team understands coverage..... no one knows how to read the QB..... no one knows how to anticipate a route. It's like the Patriots ran 30 brand new passing plays, because we looked like we didn't understand what they were trying to do with their passing game. we didn't cover the screens.... not once. Our Corners kept getting lost, and to me.... to me, it looks like they are being told to focus on the tackle, and not defending the pass. Let them catch the ball, but make sure you tackle. I'd have thought we were pass that point on Defense by now.

I understand there wasn't alot of pressure from the DL, that's another problem. Apart from that, our secondary is a joke.

& on Blitzes....... I saw several occasions where our Linebackers aren't attacking the gap(the hole) they are attacking the man. THere was one, where three LBs attacked the same guy, to the point that two of the linebackers actually ran into the back of the first linebacker.

In the first quote.... I don't think Dunta was talking about David.

humbleone

12-18-2006, 09:04 AM

I don't think that he was going at Carr, but since were throwing around blame, what about last week when a guy named Drew Bennett ate him for lunch? Was it a problem that needed to be fixed then Dunta?

Hey buddy, i don't know if you've noticed but you're all stinkin' right about now.

Exactly right. I have been (and still am) a big Drob fan. But honestly the kid has regressed over the last 2 years. Several teams are going right at him this year when they need to convert (it happend again yesterday on 4th down and 6) and they are getting it. His run support and tackling are still there to his credit(much better than #38) but he has really struggled with coverage this year. Not jumping slant routes like he used to, bitting on double moves too much, reaching in and grabbing (happend again Sunday for a 36 yrd penalty) etc...

Like MrteX says..."you're all stinkin' right now".

Let's go Texans...suck it up and beat the snot out of Manning and his Colts! :aikido:

texan's blue

12-18-2006, 09:21 AM

Exactly right. I have been (and still am) a big Drob fan. But honestly the kid has regressed over the last 2 years. Several teams are going right at him this year when they need to convert (it happend again yesterday on 4th down and 6) and they are getting it. His run support and tackling are still there to his credit(much better than #38) but he has really struggled with coverage this year. Not jumping slant routes like he used to, bitting on double moves too much, reaching in and grabbing (happend again Sunday for a 36 yrd penalty) etc...

Like MrteX says..."you're all stinkin' right now".

Let's go Texans...suck it up and beat the snot out of Manning and his Colts! :aikido:

Is nobody else seeing the pattern here?? All our players seem to "regress"... Makes me think that there is a fundamental coaching problem here and I'm not sure that it is the coaches. Maybe McNair is trying to play head coach.... there's just no way that we can have 2 head coaches with the same play book..... there's no way that we can have 2 head coaches who make 0 adjustments at half time... there's no way we can have 2 head coaches who make absolutely horrendous play calls... can we??? is it possible?? It's like Kubiak found Capers' play book and used it...

cuppacoffee

12-18-2006, 09:30 AM

atleast dunta knows the problem and at least someone is speakin out about it

so Mr. McNair...

B]LISTEN TO THE PLAYERS[/B

Check out this quote from Dunta, from Justice's blog:

In the losing locker room, there were interesting words from Dunta Robinson...

We've got a problem, and until we fix the problem, things are continue to be this way.

What's the problem?

That ain't for me to say. All I can say is that when you're a 4-10 team, you've got a lot of problems. Until we step up and say what the problem is, then it's not going to get better.

This team needs big changes, right?

Anytime you're on a losing team, changes have to be made. That's the bottom line. We've got to find a way to fix this thing.

If Dunta is making veiled criticism of Carr, I don't blame him. Carr was horrible today and his play was inexcusably bad. This may be evidence
DC has lost the respect of some/most of his teammates.

Which is it? Problem or problems?

Changes? Sounds plural to me.

Dunta is frustrated as are the rest of us.

I think the Carr haters are trying to draft Dunta into their ranks.

"This may be evidence.."

Humm, this may be a " I think there was another shooter on the grassy knoll" type of speculation.

Anyone saying Walker called out Carr is making things up. :fib

Don't misunderstand me, I am glad Dunta is pizzed, every Texan player should be, but I doubt he was calling out any one player.

MB posters are doing a good enough job of that.

:coffee:

Texanfan4ever

12-18-2006, 09:40 AM

Is nobody else seeing the pattern here?? All our players seem to "regress"... Makes me think that there is a fundamental coaching problem here and I'm not sure that it is the coaches. Maybe McNair is trying to play head coach.... there's just no way that we can have 2 head coaches with the same play book..... there's no way that we can have 2 head coaches who make 0 adjustments at half time... there's no way we can have 2 head coaches who make absolutely horrendous play calls... can we??? is it possible?? It's like Kubiak found Capers' play book and used it...

That's exactly what we were saying, again, watching the game yesterday. I would be the last to come down on Kubes and the other coaches, but it looked like last year. No adjustmenst EVER, just keep doing the same things that don't work, over and over and over and over again.

There is a lot of blame to go around for yesterday.

Who was that team?

Runner

12-18-2006, 09:40 AM

Is nobody else seeing the pattern here?? All our players seem to "regress"... Makes me think that there is a fundamental coaching problem here and I'm not sure that it is the coaches. Maybe McNair is trying to play head coach.... there's just no way that we can have 2 head coaches with the same play book..... there's no way that we can have 2 head coaches who make 0 adjustments at half time... there's no way we can have 2 head coaches who make absolutely horrendous play calls... can we??? is it possible?? It's like Kubiak found Capers' play book and used it...

Something is definitely leading to teh menatal beat down of these players which leads to the regression. Coaching, losing, other stuff? A combination? Whatever it is needs fixed so our players can get better ---> team gets better,

thunderkyss

12-18-2006, 09:51 AM

Let me ask one question here:

What's not to trash about Carr after the past four weeks? He's been a turd.

If he were a rookie, would you be saying that?? Kubiak is treating him as a rookie.

He didn't fumble the ball when he was sacked yesterday...... Kubiak is happy, we'll move on.

I liked that we actually tried to go downfield.. quite a bit.... now we at least know what areas we need to work on.

thunderkyss

12-18-2006, 10:29 AM

David Carr isn't a rookie.

He's turdtastic.

That's true, & your colorful critisicm is warranted. My point is that we aren't looking at it like Kubiak is.... (other wise David wouldn't have finished that game).

For all intents and purposes, Kubiak is looking at this as if Carr is a rookie. I think the first 6 or 7 weeks was erasing all that Capers/Palmer fixed him up to be. From now on out, we're moving forward with our QB development.

Sunday's game won't be looked any differently than the poor games by Lienart or Cutler...... replacing the QB is not an option. Learning from our mistakes, finding missed opportunities... we're moving forward, regardless what the fans think.

Fans(myself included) want to win games. Of course the team wants to win as well, but hopefully Kubiak is looking further down the road. We're learning to play, learning how to win. So next year, or the year after that, we aren't just beating teams that can't get to 500.... but choke when playing teams with winning records(ala the Dallas Cowboys).

When we start winning, it's going to be for real, and it's going to mean being a playoff team year in & year out for a decade & more.... not like Tampa, Washington, Baltimore or Carolina..... or Jaxonville.....

bckey

12-18-2006, 10:53 AM

We're learning to play, learning how to win. So next year, or the year after that, we aren't just beating teams that can't get to 500.... but choke when playing teams with winning records(ala the Dallas Cowboys).

You have made alot of good posts in the past thunderkyss but this isn't one of them. There is absolutely no way yesterday's game helped our players learn to play and learn to win. This team has regressed the latter half of this season. Instead of being an improved team after getting a handle on the new offense the Texans look as bad or worse than last year. I'm worried that no free agents will come here in the offseason even if they are overpaid. It is getting that bad. It is hard to build strictly through the draft if when you get these rookies you ruin alot of them with a losing attitude and bad coaching. I'm not pointing the finger at Kubiak either.

utahmark

12-18-2006, 11:59 AM

is this the same daunta that got burnt by jabar gaffney for a td. and wasnt gaffney the same guy who couldnt make the cut for the eagles? and arent the eagles the guys who need depth at the wr position?

NederlandTexan

12-18-2006, 12:01 PM

How about Mario for not getting more sacks or Ryans for not being a bigger part of this game or the Kubes for calling an idiotic fake punt play with 4 and a half yard or the receivers for not coming back to the ball and trying to make plays on it.... I'm just providing fuel for this inferno...

Defense gave up 129 passing and 105 rushing. Nice try, but Mario and DeMeco are not the problem.

real

12-18-2006, 12:23 PM

Sunday's game won't be looked any differently than the poor games by Lienart or Cutler....

I don't think thats true....

Carr may have had bad coaching his first few years, but you can't compare a guy fresh out of college to a guy thats been in the NFL for 5 yrs....

Second Honeymoon

12-18-2006, 12:24 PM

Dunta did not call anyone's name. That is a good thing because if he did something as stupid as that, Kubiak would probably consider trading HIS a**. The players on the team had better open their eyes and realize these times are "Character Builders" and this is a storm they all need to ride out together. The slackers will be gone next season and what they say right now could determine if they are here or gone next season too.
:twocents:

so if the slackers are gone, then Carr would be first to go. Football isnt even a priority in his life...that means slacker.

brewhaus

12-18-2006, 12:29 PM

so if the slackers are gone, then Carr would be first to go. Football isnt even a priority in his life...that means slacker.

I believe you are correct, DC will be leaving us. But, I would be careful about calling him a slacker. There are a lot of "apologists" on this board who will give you negative rep for having that opinion.

I personally feel that DC is fulfilling a business contract, and that is the extent of his commitment to the team.

BigBull17

12-18-2006, 12:32 PM

Not to throw Robinson under the bus, but maybe the problem is how he let Gaffney get free in the end zone.

Or let him burn you deep like on the pass he dropped? There is plenty of blame when you lose 40-7. No one is safe from a pointing finger. Carr had his single worst preformance of the year bar none, but the D gave up 33 ish points. They were run over and passed on at will. New England was just really nice and didnt want to run the score up any worse than it was. Carr put them in horrible position and really screwed the pooch yesterday, but come on the whole organization needs to look in the mirror when passing out blame. Except Ron Dayne, he can hold his head high because he played his ass off.

Second Honeymoon

12-18-2006, 12:33 PM

I believe you are correct, DC will be leaving us. But, I would be careful about calling him a slacker. There are a lot of "apologists" on this board who will give you negative rep for having that opinion.

I personally feel that DC is fulfilling a business contract, and that is the extent of his commitment to the team.

dude, i dont care about negative rep. I wear it like a badge of honor. i have been right since Day One in just about every aspect of this team. I am only now just watching the apologists and homer trolls trying to spin everything....

and anyone who thinks Dunta wasnt calling out Carr is truly clueless...I can't believe anyone can delude themselves enough to not think he was calling out Carr....

Dunta's play on the field was horrific last year and below average this year so its not like he is Deion Sanders or something, but he was willing to put his butt on the line and say what the whole damn locker room has been thinking for 2+ years. You can say he was calling out everyone but we all know deep inside what he was saying...some people just dont like an inconvenient truth and their 'boy' getting called out

DUNTA FOR PRESIDENT

Second Honeymoon

12-18-2006, 12:35 PM

Or let him burn you deep like on the pass he dropped? There is plenty of blame when you lose 40-7. No one is safe from a pointing finger. Carr had his single worst preformance of the year bar none, but the D gave up 33 ish points. They were run over and passed on at will. New England was just really nice and didnt want to run the score up any worse than it was. Carr put them in horrible position and really screwed the pooch yesterday, but come on the whole organization needs to look in the mirror when passing out blame. Except Ron Dayne, he can hold his head high because he played his ass off.

You do realize that the offense turned the ball over left and right and presented short fields to the Patriots all day long....

the QB play was atrocious yesterday and cost us the game...not just cost us the game but contributed to the utter embarassment

thunderkyss

12-18-2006, 12:35 PM

I don't think thats true....

Carr may have had bad coaching his first few years, but you can't compare a guy fresh out of college to a guy thats been in the NFL for 5 yrs....

true enough...... to the outside world, it's time for David to go. Internally, as far as Kubiak is concerned, this is year one with a talented guy who is physically tough as nails.

I know Texans fans don't want to hear it, but we started out to fix Carr, and rebuild our team...... we hoped to get a few wins along the way, but yesterday's game has not hurt Carrs stock with the people who make the decision...... Kubiak & McNair.

Until Kubiak says otherwise, we have to believe that David is performing exactly like he is expected to. I didn't expect him to play any better than he did yesterday....... that's exactly how he's played all year long....... actually better.

He didn't fumble the ball on those sacks...... and he took more shots downfield than in any other game this year. hopefully we'll see more of that(less sacks) next week, It would be nice if he would work on his accuracy before then. But I don't see how anyone expected David to play better than he did Sunday, and what made them think he would.

HoustonFrog

12-18-2006, 12:39 PM

true enough...... to the outside world, it's time for David to go. Internally, as far as Kubiak is concerned, this is year one with a talented guy who is physically tough as nails.

I know Texans fans don't want to hear it, but we started out to fix Carr, and rebuild our team...... we hoped to get a few wins along the way, but yesterday's game has not hurt Carrs stock with the people who make the decision...... Kubiak & McNair.

Until Kubiak says otherwise, we have to believe that David is performing exactly like he is expected to. I didn't expect him to play any better than he did yesterday....... that's exactly how he's played all year long....... actually better.

He didn't fumble the ball on those sacks...... and he took more shots downfield than in any other game this year. hopefully we'll see more of that(less sacks) next week, It would be nice if he would work on his accuracy before then. But I don't see how anyone expected David to play better than he did Sunday, and what made them think he would.

Honestly Thunder, I don't get any of this. I don't care if he is going downfield if it is to no one and the trhows are telegraphed and horrible. How much slack do people have to give this guy. Even in a learning process, yesterday was a disaster. He is making the same mistakes he made in Year 1. That is not acceptable. The guy is beaten and his own quotes about just wanting tohand the ball off now shows he can't lead.

Second Honeymoon

12-18-2006, 12:41 PM

true enough...... to the outside world, it's time for David to go. Internally, as far as Kubiak is concerned, this is year one with a talented guy who is physically tough as nails.

I know Texans fans don't want to hear it, but we started out to fix Carr, and rebuild our team...... we hoped to get a few wins along the way, but yesterday's game has not hurt Carrs stock with the people who make the decision...... Kubiak & McNair.

Until Kubiak says otherwise, we have to believe that David is performing exactly like he is expected to. I didn't expect him to play any better than he did yesterday....... that's exactly how he's played all year long....... actually better.

He didn't fumble the ball on those sacks...... and he took more shots downfield than in any other game this year. hopefully we'll see more of that(less sacks) next week, It would be nice if he would work on his accuracy before then. But I don't see how anyone expected David to play better than he did Sunday, and what made them think he would.

Thunderkyss, there is no way Carr is expected to play like this. You are lauding praise on Carr for not fumbling? You are lauding praise on Carr for throwing 4 picks and playing as expected. C'mon man, you need to add a sarcasm emoticon at the end. There is no way in hell that Carr is performing up to their expectations.....maybe McNairs expectations because he is Carr's grabass buddy, but there is no way Kubiak expects this from a NFL QB. No way at all, even for an Aggie. I respect Kubiak too much to believe that is even a half truth.

brewhaus

12-18-2006, 12:42 PM

dude, i dont care about negative rep. I wear it like a badge of honor. i have been right since Day One in just about every aspect of this team. I am only now just watching the apologists and homer trolls trying to spin everything....

and anyone who thinks Dunta wasnt calling out Carr is truly clueless...I can't believe anyone can delude themselves enough to not think he was calling out Carr....

Dunta's play on the field was horrific last year and below average this year so its not like he is Deion Sanders or something, but he was willing to put his butt on the line and say what the whole damn locker room has been thinking for 2+ years. You can say he was calling out everyone but we all know deep inside what he was saying...some people just dont like an inconvenient truth and their 'boy' getting called out

DUNTA FOR PRESIDENT

...didn't pick up on the sarcasm?
I would imagine that more folks than Dunta are frustrated beyond the breaking point, which is pretty much what happened with him yesterday....he snapped. I said it earlier, This is a "Character Builder" for the team and they need to ride it out as a team. Professionally, the players need to do their talking on the field, not to the media who is "just looking" for dirt on this team. Kubiak will take care of what needs to be taken care of. At least, I believe he will take care of things. Time will tell.

aj.

12-18-2006, 12:52 PM

Not sure if anyone had posted Justice's full column today. There's a little more info in it that didn't make the blog entry that started this all:

[Robinson] sat steaming in front of his locker for almost a half-hour after the game. Public relations staffers, perhaps remembering his blowup in Baltimore last year, kept reporters away until Robinson had showered and had a chance to cool down.

Except he hadn't cooled down. And when he began to talk, he came very close to calling out one of his teammates.

"We've got a problem," he said, "and until we fix the problem, things will continue to be this way."

What's the problem?

"That ain't for me to say," Robinson answered. "All I can say is that when you're a 4-10 team, you've got a lot of problems. Until we step up and say what the problem is, then it's not going to get better."

When one of the television guys quoted Carr as saying he was "sick and tired of being sick and tired," Robinson bristled.

"If you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, put a stop to it," he said.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/4409111.html

real

12-18-2006, 12:53 PM

I know Texans fans don't want to hear it, but we started out to fix Carr, and rebuild our team...... we hoped to get a few wins along the way, but yesterday's game has not hurt Carrs stock with the people who make the decision...... Kubiak & McNair.

I don't think Kubiak expected Carr to play this poorly....I don't think Carr is where Kubiak wants him to be either....If Kubiak looks at Carr as a rookie and is treating him as such, we need a new head coach....

Kubiak has said countless times, "the team goes how the QB goes"....I don't expect him to back out on that statement....So if he truly feels the team goes how the QB goes, then why would he jeopordize the team success just to TRY and fix Carr??? I'm not saying that he's going to try and get rid of Carr this off-season....Honestly at this point, I'm pretty fed up with the F.O in general....

Other than rds. 2-5 of last years draft, I don't really see how the new staff has improved this team....What else have they done besides rds. 2-5 of the draft that we can hang our hats on ?

old football fan

12-18-2006, 01:00 PM

It's amazing that in 2004 when the Texans were 7-9 DC was the next greatest thing to BBQ. My how the mighty have fallen. We as unknowledgable fans blame one person for the failure of a 53 man roster football team. I am not saying that DC has played good, because he has played like he dosen't know what football is. From what I saw yesterday was that the team lacks a will to fight and a will to win at any cost. Oh God I'm going to say it. Maybe it is time for the Texans to move in a different direction and also for DC to do the same.

I made funny noises with my mouth as I read this. But seriously, I am a Crusader for Carr. Look for us at the games on Sunday. We wear our white and blue crossed tunics with pride.

Second Honeymoon

12-18-2006, 01:20 PM

It's amazing that in 2004 when the Texans were 7-9 DC was the next greatest thing to BBQ. My how the mighty have fallen. We as unknowledgable fans blame one person for the failure of a 53 man roster football team. I am not saying that DC has played good, because he has played like he dosen't know what football is. From what I saw yesterday was that the team lacks a will to fight and a will to win at any cost. Oh God I'm going to say it. Maybe it is time for the Texans to move in a different direction and also for DC to do the same.

During the 7-9 season, if we would have had a capable QB we could have made the playoffs. Carr didn't win any games for the Texans that year and to the contrary lost 3 games due to his poor play and propensity to turn the ball over. The writing was on the wall back in Year 3 and Sharper and Walker called it out as such. They were then shown the door shortly thereafter. Hope the same thing doesnt happen to Dunta.

I do appreciate that another die hard fan has finally realized that Carr will never be nothing but an albatross for this organization. His tired 'aww shucks' attitude and his 'i am not the problem, i am a good husband and father' schtick is ridiculous and it has gotten old. McNair and Kubiak need to be held accountable for not seeing the writing on the wall earlier.

much love to all fans, homer or not

thunderkyss

12-18-2006, 03:05 PM

Honestly Thunder, I don't get any of this. I don't care if he is going downfield if it is to no one and the trhows are telegraphed and horrible. How much slack do people have to give this guy. Even in a learning process, yesterday was a disaster. He is making the same mistakes he made in Year 1. That is not acceptable. The guy is beaten and his own quotes about just wanting tohand the ball off now shows he can't lead.

People don't have to give him any slack. Your analysis is right on. It's no different than what the "Carr Hater's" have been saying for 3+...... or in some cases 4+ years. Carr stares down his recievers...... I believe that was even in his scouting reports.

My point is that one of the things Kubiak set out to do, was to fix David Carr. Staring down his recievers is one of those things he needs to work on. He's been staring down his recievers since he got benched in Tennessee..... What happened yesterday to all of a sudden get you to believing that David needs to work on staring down recievers??

We looked pitiful, and David threw 4 INTs, because he stares down recievers..... he stared down AJ on that Anthony Henry INT, but nobody said anything.... they still managed to blame the OL(even though he didn't get sacked at all in that game) or the defense(even though they held Dallas to 6 points in the first half, and it wasn't till we started giving Dallas the ball on our side of the field that the Defense started giving up points.

You know David stares down his recievers.... Kubiak knows David stares down his recievers.... it really bit us in the butt Sunday, but it's not going to get David run out of Houston.

Thunderkyss, there is no way Carr is expected to play like this. You are lauding praise on Carr for not fumbling? You are lauding praise on Carr for throwing 4 picks and playing as expected. C'mon man, you need to add a sarcasm emoticon at the end. There is no way in hell that Carr is performing up to their expectations.....maybe McNairs expectations because he is Carr's grabass buddy, but there is no way Kubiak expects this from a NFL QB. No way at all, even for an Aggie. I respect Kubiak too much to believe that is even a half truth.

Honeymoon, go back and look at your posts..... all of them from this year. Find me one post with evidence proving that David can play better than he did Sunday. You know David isn't better than what he showed us against NewEngland.

Do you believe Kubiak knows less about his QB than you do?? I doubt it. He knows David can't read a defense. He knows David doesn't understand ball placement. He knows David holds the ball too long, and throws the pass late. He knows David doesn't understand the game of football. when he says he is working with David, helping David get better, those are the things he is working on.

He probably didn't expect the 4 INTs, he probably thought David would work his way out of his funk. But I doubt he expected David to win this game for us. I doubt he expected David to disect the defense. I doubt he expected David to caryy our team.

I don't think Kubiak expected Carr to play this poorly....I don't think Carr is where Kubiak wants him to be either....If Kubiak looks at Carr as a rookie and is treating him as such, we need a new head coach....

Do you think Carr was the best QB on this team at the end of preseason?? If you want to win football games, if you want to give your team the best chance of winning a football game, you start your best players. Period.

This season has not been about winning, because we never started our best 22 players.

This has been about fixing David Carr, making him a starting QB.
What else have they done besides rds. 2-5 of the draft that we can hang our hats on ?

Go ahead & throw the #1 pick in their too. Don't put this on Mario, and make it sound like this team is better without Mario. This team would be worse without Mario, and you know it. Without Mario, D'Mako's 100 tackles(or whatever they are) would look like Greenwoods 100 tackles from last year..... all of them 5 yards or more on our side of the ball. It would be a meaningless stat..... kinda like a high completion percentage, with no yards.

Runner

12-18-2006, 03:12 PM

It's amazing that in 2004 when the Texans were 7-9 DC was the next greatest thing to BBQ. My how the mighty have fallen.

Yep. Common feeling on the board then was all we needed was a new left tackle and we were playoff bound. Well, we've had four LTs since then and have done much worse. The Texans should have tried player development (for positions in addition to QB) versus starting over. It is telling when the scapegoat is sacrificed and everything goes down hill.

Let's see if they repeat the mistake with Winston.

HOU-TEX

12-18-2006, 03:14 PM

This season has not been about winning, because we never started our best 22 players.

This has been about fixing David Carr, making him a starting QB.

Well, with all the progress Carr's made so far, we're going to be unbeatable next year. Pfft!:sarcasm:

Do you believe what you're saying?

real

12-18-2006, 03:21 PM

This has been about fixing David Carr, making him a starting QB.

I agree with that....

But that doesn't mean Carr has progressed according to plan....I have seen more regression than progression out of Carr... the past two weeks when Carr has been on 610 in the morning, it sounds really obvious that he's ready for the season to be over....It was obvious yesterday that he was ready for the game to end....If I can pick up on it, I know Kubiak and his teammates can....I think I'd be a little dissapointed in Kubiak if he felt Carr were right on track....

Go ahead & throw the #1 pick in their too. Don't put this on Mario, and make it sound like this team is better without Mario. This team would be worse without Mario, and you know it. Without Mario, D'Mako's 100 tackles(or whatever they are) would look like Greenwoods 100 tackles from last year..... all of them 5 yards or more on our side of the ball. It would be a meaningless stat..... kinda like a high completion percentage, with no yards.

Of course...I agree totally....But the Mario pick isn't something I would brag about right about now....Meco, Daniels, and Spencer are the only the only picks at this point where I'd say we did damn good....I really like Mario....I just wouldn't say that we did great with that pick as of right now....

Second Honeymoon

12-18-2006, 03:31 PM

Honeymoon, go back and look at your posts..... all of them from this year. Find me one post with evidence proving that David can play better than he did Sunday. You know David isn't better than what he showed us against NewEngland.

Do you believe Kubiak knows less about his QB than you do?? I doubt it. He knows David can't read a defense. He knows David doesn't understand ball placement. He knows David holds the ball too long, and throws the pass late. He knows David doesn't understand the game of football. when he says he is working with David, helping David get better, those are the things he is working on.

He probably didn't expect the 4 INTs, he probably thought David would work his way out of his funk. But I doubt he expected David to win this game for us. I doubt he expected David to disect the defense. I doubt he expected David to caryy our team.

I guess I must not have made myself clear enough. I am not saying that I expect him to play better. I am saying that he is expected to play better by the team. However over the course of the season there has been a major sea change in Kubiak's opinion/view and its obvious that Kubiak has little to no confidence in him and the playbook/leash shows it. Carr is the same QB he was when he came into the league...just a lot richer. I have been calling for this guys head forever as you know but when you resign him to a 3year deal, I think that pretty much states that the organization (not you and I) 'expected more' than what we saw. Frankly, they arent expecting it, they are COUNTING on it....but I do think Kubiak already knows what some of us have known since pretty much Day One.

I guess I misinterpreted what you were writing and possibly missed some sarcasm...wouldnt be the first or the last time

your a great fan, a great poster, and an objective critic of Carr and the rest of the Texans....we need more of ya

thunderkyss

12-18-2006, 03:34 PM

Well, with all the progress Carr's made so far, we're going to be unbeatable next year. Pfft!:sarcasm:

Do you believe what you're saying?

Absolutely......

I don't think David has progressed..... that's not what I'm saying. I don't know what GK expects from David, but after what happened in Oakland, and Kubes still stood up for him, made excuses for him..... I've realized that for all I know, Kubiak expected no better out of David.

Surely he deserved to benched after that game, more so than the Tennessee game. I was baffled to see Carr start the second half. I was dumbfounded that he played the entire game.

THen Kubiak said don't blame David after the game......

I'm just accepting the fact that David will be our starting QB for the 2007 season.

Second Honeymoon

12-18-2006, 03:41 PM

Absolutely......

I don't think David has progressed..... that's not what I'm saying. I don't know what GK expects from David, but after what happened in Oakland, and Kubes still stood up for him, made excuses for him..... I've realized that for all I know, Kubiak expected no better out of David.

Surely he deserved to benched after that game, more so than the Tennessee game. I was baffled to see Carr start the second half. I was dumbfounded that he played the entire game.

THen Kubiak said don't blame David after the game......

I'm just accepting the fact that David will be our starting QB for the 2007 season.

I agree. McNair's AP press release. Kubiak's criticism has been lacking and when it is displayed it is very vague and 'matter of fact'. All these things point to Carr being back at least to compete for the starting job. He is untradable and the cap hit would be a huge one if we released or waived him. He will be back, for better or worse.....I just don't have to be happy about it

real

12-18-2006, 03:41 PM

I'm just accepting the fact that David will be our starting QB for the 2007 season.

As disheartening as that is....I've already come to accept that...

Mr teX

12-18-2006, 03:55 PM

so if the slackers are gone, then Carr would be first to go. Football isnt even a priority in his life...that means slacker.

Stop making assertions that you have not 1 shred of evidence to back up.
good grief.

HOU-TEX

12-18-2006, 03:58 PM

Absolutely......

I don't think David has progressed..... that's not what I'm saying. I don't know what GK expects from David, but after what happened in Oakland, and Kubes still stood up for him, made excuses for him..... I've realized that for all I know, Kubiak expected no better out of David.

Surely he deserved to benched after that game, more so than the Tennessee game. I was baffled to see Carr start the second half. I was dumbfounded that he played the entire game.

THen Kubiak said don't blame David after the game......

I'm just accepting the fact that David will be our starting QB for the 2007 season.

I hear ya. It's just too hard to swallow right now. :crying:

dalemurphy

12-18-2006, 04:03 PM

As one of Carr's more ardent supporters the past three years on this board, I have a few things to say:

1. I think it's reasonable to assume that the team needs to address the QB position either with a 1st round pick or a free agent signing and David's release.

2. I think many of the "Carr-haters" have shown either a lack of football knowledge or a lack of class in their attacks of him the past few years. It's always the ignorant fan who gives a QB all the credit or all the blame for what is the ultimate team game. Futhermore, I think the guy deserves our appreciation for enduring years of beatings and struggling along with a talent-poor and poorly run expansion organization. He shouldn't be mocked and ridiculed and blamed for everything that goes wrong with the team.

3. I think the success, or lack of, for most NFL QBs largely is circumstancial. I think those circumstances have led us to this point. I believe he could be successful elsewhere. I just doubt he can have success with this team, at this point in its progress and in his career.

4. It was perfectly reasonable to give Carr an opportunity to succeed under this new coaching staff. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out. The QB position is the toughest to scout and hopefully we can catch lightning with Rosenfels or whoever else enters the discussion this offseason.

5. I still wonder how Carr would be playing right now if Spencer and Weigert had stayed healthy. He really seemed to be close to turning the corner earlier this season.

6. Hopefully, we'll finally get this OLine in shape and not have to go through this mess again with another QB.

Second Honeymoon

12-18-2006, 04:12 PM

[/B]

Stop making assertions that you have not 1 shred of evidence to back up.
good grief.v

there are multiple quotes from Carr where he has stated that football is not the priority in his life. To Carr, playing football is his job and not a passion of his. Those are facts based on Carr's words and further displayed by Carr's lack of commitment and improvement over the years.

I just want someone who is dedicated both on and off the field. I want someone dedicated to being a champion, not someone just doing a job that he is paid to do. You gotta have an inner hunger to win and an utter disdain for losing. Dream had it. Montana had it. It almost has to consume you. It's the inner desire to hone your craft to a championship level. Carr cant even play like a capable rookie.....and he will always be Ryan Leaf with a better attitude to me

Second Honeymoon

12-18-2006, 04:16 PM

As one of Carr's more ardent supporters the past three years on this board, I have a few things to say:

1. I think it's reasonable to assume that the team needs to address the QB position either with a 1st round pick or a free agent signing and David's release.

2. I think many of the "Carr-haters" have shown either a lack of football knowledge or a lack of class in their attacks of him the past few years. It's always the ignorant fan who gives a QB all the credit or all the blame for what is the ultimate team game. Futhermore, I think the guy deserves our appreciation for enduring years of beatings and struggling along with a talent-poor and poorly run expansion organization. He shouldn't be mocked and ridiculed and blamed for everything that goes wrong with the team.

3. I think the success, or lack of, for most NFL QBs largely is circumstancial. I think those circumstances have led us to this point. I believe he could be successful elsewhere. I just doubt he can have success with this team, at this point in its progress and in his career.

4. It was perfectly reasonable to give Carr an opportunity to succeed under this new coaching staff. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out. The QB position is the toughest to scout and hopefully we can catch lightning with Rosenfels or whoever else enters the discussion this offseason.

5. I still wonder how Carr would be playing right now if Spencer and Weigert had stayed healthy. He really seemed to be close to turning the corner earlier this season.

6. Hopefully, we'll finally get this OLine in shape and not have to go through this mess again with another QB.

So because I was right about David, I am a Carr hater. If Carr haters are so unknowledgeable, then why the hell were we right? You were wrong. I have been calling for David to have been let go for going on 3 years. Let's just get this straight....You were and continue to be wrong, so who was REALLY unknowledgeable? Don't spin this or try and blame the Carr Haters for your boy falling flat on his face this year. I bet Kubiak is having 2nd and 3rd thoughts about that contract extension for Carr...and that says all you need to know.

as for #6 I hope we improve the OL as well. Once Flanagan went down things have gotten progressively worse.

old football fan

12-18-2006, 04:26 PM

I think everybody realizes that Carr needs to go. But at the same time we need to be objective in our views of the team. What I am saying(I'm old and will get to my point eventually) is that nobody on the Texans should be safe from the trade block or from being cut. We need alot more than just a QB.

dalemurphy

12-18-2006, 04:26 PM

So because I was right about David, I am a Carr hater. If Carr haters are so unknowledgeable, then why the hell were we right? You were wrong. I have been calling for David to have been let go for going on 3 years. Let's just get this straight....You were and continue to be wrong, so who was REALLY unknowledgeable? Don't spin this or try and blame the Carr Haters for your boy falling flat on his face this year. I bet Kubiak is having 2nd and 3rd thoughts about that contract extension for Carr...and that says all you need to know.

as for #6 I hope we improve the OL as well. Once Flanagan went down things have gotten progressively worse.

First, I'm not blaming fans for Carr's failure. Second, I could predict the failure of 10 young Qbs and three years later find out that I was right 8 times. I don't think I'd deserve credit for that. After all, as a "Carr supporter", I only wanted to give him a chance with better personnel and coaches- I never pretended to know he'd be very good. After all, every impatient fan on a losing team criticizes the players, particularly the QB, and screams for changes. All that makes you if you were one of those doing it is predictable.

I was in Dallas in '89 and '90 when Cowboy fans were demanding that Aikman be traded.

Mr. White

12-18-2006, 04:27 PM

What I am saying(I'm old and will get to my point eventually) is that nobody on the Texans should be safe from the trade block or from being cut.

That seems to be the case except for one player.

Second Honeymoon

12-18-2006, 04:36 PM

First, I'm not blaming fans for Carr's failure. Second, I could predict the failure of 10 young Qbs and three years later find out that I was right 8 times. I don't think I'd deserve credit for that. After all, as a "Carr supporter", I only wanted to give him a chance with better personnel and coaches- I never pretended to know he'd be very good. After all, every impatient fan on a losing team criticizes the players, particularly the QB, and screams for changes. All that makes you if you were one of those doing it is predictable.

I was in Dallas in '89 and '90 when Cowboy fans were demanding that Aikman be traded.

the writing on the wall has been there since Day One. Carr has never shown anything that would lead sane individuals into thinking he would ever evolve into a Top Tier QB. That is all I am saying. Never once took the team on his back except the one Vikings game, where we still came up short. By continuing to keep Carr around at Top$$ with no competition and little to no accountability you are essentially blaming THE REST OF THE TEAM for the shortcomings of Carr personally and the Texans individually.....you are holding every other position and every player accountable but not the QB.

Geez, Tony Banks has been the best QB the Texans have EVER had until arguably Sage came around...and that guy is career journeyman and only an average to below average NFL QB. But some kept deluding themselves into thinking this golden boy would amount to something given enough support and given enough time...basically blaming the shortcomings of everyone besides Carr himself

TexansSeminole

12-18-2006, 06:21 PM

I think that quote is vague enough that anyone can spin it to fit their favorite pet peeve.

I didn't read past this post yet, but in the chronicle it was very obvious it was about Carr. Dunta was told that Carr said he was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Dunta told the reporter that if Carr is sick and tired of being sick and tired, he needs to fix it. After I read that it was obvious that Dunta was talking about Carr the whole time. In the end of the report he said that he wasn't going to say some things that he thinks need to be said.

Mr. White

12-18-2006, 06:29 PM

Not sure if anyone had posted Justice's full column today. There's a little more info in it that didn't make the blog entry that started this all:

When one of the television guys quoted Carr as saying he was "sick and tired of being sick and tired," Robinson bristled.

"If you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, put a stop to it," he said.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/4409111.html

Yesterday's blog entry didn't include this quote from D-Rob. It's in Justice's article today (for those who overlooked AJ's post.)

He's definitely calling David Carr out.

Watch out Dunta, the Texans transaction report is littered with defenders that have badmouthed the sacred cow of the franchise in past years.

TexansSeminole

12-18-2006, 06:31 PM

To me it seems quite obvious that Dunta was talking about Carr. It's hard to deny it if you read today's newspaper.

It's about time someone came out and said something. I think Dunta figures that if nobody says anything it won't change. McNair will obviously not let Carr go unless its a collective group opinion that he must leave and I think people are starting to show that they want him gone.

TexansSeminole

12-18-2006, 06:32 PM

Watch out Dunta, the Texans transaction report is littered with defenders that have badmouthed the sacred cow of the franchise in past years.

Why would he need to watch out?

Worse thing that can happen: He gets cut and gets to leave this disaster.