The JSC must redefine merit to advance judicial transformation

Has the Judicial Service Commission (JSC) become a stumbling block to the transformation of the judiciary? After a lengthy internal debate earlier this week, Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng – who chairs the JSC – stated that although the “merit” of applicants does count when considering appointments to the bench, considerations of “transformation is just as important”. But this juxtaposition of “merit” with the need for “transformation” of the judiciary is highly problematic – as the JSC’s decision yesterday to appoint Judge Nigel Willis to the Supreme Court of Appeal (SCA) clearly illustrates.

The problem with the JSC’s approach to judicial appointments is that the body has embraced a narrow and constitutionally problematic idea of what both “transformation” and “merit” mean. By stating that there is a tension between the need to appoint judges on “merit” and the need to appoint more black and female judges (as part of the need to transform the judiciary), the JSC is saying that black and female appointees often do not possess the same “merit” as white candidates. This is highly problematic as it perpetuates the deeply entrenched white male-centric (some might say racist and sexist) notion that upper middle-class white men are almost always superior in “merit” to black and female candidates.

I would argue that there is an urgent need for the JSC to re-visit its conceptions of “merit” and “transformation” to avoid the unjustified stereotyping of black and female candidates as generally possessing inferior “merit”.

“Merit” is not a completely objective and universal standard. We make many assumptions about what constitutes “merit” when we judge one candidate to have a higher “merit” than another. These assumptions are often based on the worldview of the culturally and economically dominant group whose specific skills are valorised and assumed to form part of any assessment of a person’s “merits”. Those who are culturally and economically not dominant often possess different skills-sets – valuable in its own right – that are nevertheless not valued, or not sufficiently valued. Those who are not members of the cultural and economic dominant group (or who have not managed the skill to mimic the attributes and attitudes of the culturally and economically dominant group) are often dismissed as not possessing the requisite “merit” to be appointed to positions.

For example, in South Africa an often-unstated assumption is that a person who speaks and writes English fluently is more admirable than one who does not. But why do we often not acknowledge that people who are fluent in several of South Africa’s languages have skills that somebody who is only fluent in English does not have? Surely a judge who is fluent in English as well as isiXhosa, isiZulu, Sesotho, Setswana and siSwati possess skills to understand and communicate with people coming before the court that a monolingual English-speaking judge does not?

Moreover, in a multicultural society like South Africa, the kind of experience and skills assumed to confer high “merit” on a candidate for appointment to the bench might very well make such a candidate less (not more) suitable for appointment because it might hinder that candidate’s ability to dispense justice between ordinary people or to interpret and apply the various provisions of the Constitution in a manner that would promote and protect the interests of the vulnerable and the marginalised in society.

Thus, a judge who grew up in Houghton, went to an English private school in the midlands and then studied at Oxford before practicing at the Bar where he did mostly commercial work for big corporations, might lack the wisdom and experience – and therefore a different kind of “merit” – that another judge who grew up in a rural village, studied at Fort Hare and lived in Soweto while working for a small law firm might possess. In some context – commercial litigation – the kinds of merit associated with such a candidate might come in handy. In other context, it would be at best irrelevant and at worse a hindrance.

Of course, a candidate should only be appointed to the bench if he or she has the requisite technical legal skills to be able to judge a case a write a well-argued judgment. But once it has been established that a candidate has these skills, other factors that have very little to do with technical legal skills must surely also be considered to ensure that the candidates possessing the highest “merit” – broadly defined – are appointed to the bench.

This is exactly why section 174(2) of the Constitution states that the “need for the judiciary to reflect broadly the racial and gender composition of South Africa must be considered when judicial officers are appointed”. This section recognises that an elite – all white and all male – judiciary will not have the broader skills to hand down legitimate, well-informed judgments advancing and protecting the interests of the vulnerable and marginalised in society. One of the strengths of the Constitutional Court is exactly that it is made up of 11 people (admittedly only two of them women) from diverse backgrounds and with vastly different life experiences who are capable of learning from one another.

If I am correct, this also implies that although the starting point for the transformation of the judiciary will always be the need to change the racial and gender composition of the bench, the notion of “transformation” should also be understood as requiring the appointment of judges who have demonstrated a strong commitment to the pro-poor, pro-human dignity, pro-egalitarian ethos embedded in our Constitution and in the jurisprudence of the Constitutional Court.

This is why the decision of the JSC to recommend justice Nigel Willis for appointment to the JSC is so perplexing and why it runs counter to that body’s stated commitment to advance judicial transformation. Justice Willis has demonstrated a remarkable animosity to the egalitarian ethos of the Constitution as developed by the Constitutional Court.

In the infamous case of Emfuleni Local Municipality v Builders Advancement Services CC and Others judge Willis lambasted the Constitutional Court for stating that it was “inexcusable” for Willis to have ordered the eviction of unlawful occupiers “without having regard to the provisions of PIE”. Wrote Willis: “Quite how the Constitutional Court could have come to this conclusion is one of the great unfathomable mysteries of my life.”

In the Emfuleni case, in what judge Willis in a later judgment called his “cri de coeur” on economic freedom, the honourable judge extolled the virtues of laissez-fairecapitalism and the deregulation of the economy in terms that Margaret Thatcher or the Free Market Foundation would have cheered on.

One does not, in my view, ‘save’ jobs by making it more and more difficult to dismiss employees and one does not make housing more widely available by rendering the ownership of property which is let to tenants a serious economic hazard.

In an earlier concurring judgment of the Labour Appeal Court in Woolworths v Whitehead, Judge Willis ridiculed the idea that a women’s pregnancy could not be taken into account when deciding whether to offer her a job. In the process the honourable judge displayed the kind of attitude towards women that is difficult to square with the progressive values in our Constitution, stating that:

I think that Western culture could derive much wisdom from the view prevalent in African, Hindu, Muslim and Chinese cultures that the first few weeks of a child’s life should be a special time with its mother, with both of them freed as much as possible from outside distractions and surrounded by love and support. Moreover, motherhood is not some minor inconvenience in a woman’s life. I also think we should be astute not to cultivate the idea that motherhood is entirely secondary to the greater glories of job satisfaction.

The judge then distinguished “lowly paid, dreary and routine jobs with which women, especially, are burdened” from more high paying jobs as executives, arguing that in the latter case a women’s pregnancy can legally be used to disqualify her for appointment because:

They impact negatively on the capacity of the economy, as a whole, to grow and, in so doing, its capacity to create new jobs. In my view it would be inappropriate for this court to deliver a judgement as though it were cocooned in the intellectual and moral parameters of a rich, first-world country. It would be inappropriate to ignore the fact that, as a general rule, the existence of elites can only be justified if they produce a dividend for society that exceeds the costs which they incur. To find that the pregnancy of a prospective employee cannot be taken into account in deciding whether or not to offer her employment may seem to be fair to prospective employees but it would certainly be unfair to employers and society as a whole and, by reason of the damaging consequences of such a finding upon society as a whole, ultimately unfair to prospective employees as well. After all, prospective employees need jobs to apply for in the first place.

In other words, employers can discriminate against women who do higher paying jobs because the free market demands it and employers and society should not bear the cost of this – especially because having children is its own reward.

In my view, a candidate who holds such views – so completely out of kilter with the values embodied in the Constitution as well as the stated economic policies of the governing party – does not possess the requisite “merit” to be appointed to the SCA. But the JSC, whose narrow view of “merit” and transformation can make you wonder whether they are channeling Margaret Thatcher, obviously disagrees.

@PDV – We have already seen on a number of occasions piss poor judgements given in commercial matters by AA judges in the North Gauteng High Court and recently in the Pietermaritzburg High Court where a former labour court Judge accused the applicant, a white owned company of collusion with the Ethekweni Municipality on a pipeline tender without any evidence to support this statement and in addition displayed complete ignorance of tender processes which in this case concerned alternative fixed price tenders where the contractor had taken the risk on increased costs for the duration of the contract, an accepted practice that has been in existence for years world wide.
You have this assumption that the Constitutional court judges are the 12 apostles and that they possess some sort of devine guidance on the same level as Moses.
On the contrary they are invariably junior judges when it comes commercial matters and the examples of Willis that you have posted are very real arguments as to why SA Inc is not performing and creating jobs for those people languishing in the shacks .
It is clear from reading tributes to Margaret Thatcher from the likes of Lech Walensa who was on the receiving end of the ANC buddies in the Soviet Union that she was a person who knew what she had to do, because SA right now is where Britain was before she became prime minister.
The Constitutional court has always being loaded with ANC sympathizes and liberals, so their rulings are obviously going to influence our constitutional law rightly or wrongly.
Once again lets not forget that this is the court that ruled that the Bill of Rights does not apply young white job seekers.A good friend of mine entered into a public debate with one of your female colleagues at UCT over the three surgeons posts at Groote Schuur that had vacant and white applicants including his son had been turned down for these positions.
These posts at the time of the debate had been vacant for three years and today this son of my friend has been admitted to the Royal Colledge of Surgeons in the UK having just won a further scholarship to study at Oxford.

Zoo Keeper

So merit must be redefined until it creates a pre-supposed outcome.

IOW, if white males do well at the next definition of merit, it must keep changing until they don’t do well.

IOW, not white males are not as good as white males until the standard is changed to suit them. Therefore, no matter which way you spin it, not white males are always being appointed and not because they are meritorious.

This is simply pathetic – and I must be harsh here – shows the Professors complete lack of experience at the judicial coalface. Merit is actually you can get in judges.

Merit is the most objective standard we can muster. The only way not-white males will garner the same respect and internal dignity is if there is an objective standard against which all are measured.

The likes of Steve Biko would vomit on this drivel.

BTW, Willis is right – PIE is complete fuck up and does zero to protect anybody’s interests. ESTA is similarly bullshit.

Either you have private property or you do not – no private property is what keeps poor people poor. How fucking difficult is that to understand?

Some people just cannot learn from other’s mistakes.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za ozoneblue

True.

Merit means you are BLACK (note not Indian, East-Asian, Coloured or Biracial) and preferably gay or a female.

We all get that one by now.

Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Retired Constitutional Court justice Zak Yacoob has lamented what he called the “flawed” approach used by the Judicial Service Commission when appointing judges.

In a lecture given at the University of the Witwatersrand last night, Yacoob said he “doubted whether the Constitution ever intended that members of the Judicial Service Commission could vote subjectively for the candidate they prefer, regardless of any objective evaluation.”

Yacoob was referring to the fact that members of the JSC interview candidates for judicial appointment and then select their preferred candidate by means of secret ballot.

“I don’t think the appointment of judges can be dependent on the views and feeling and thoughts … of what the people of the Judicial Service Commission are thinking then or on what they had for breakfast,” he said.

Yacoob said he was “quite sure” that the JSC should have guidelines which they should apply with “discipline and care”.

In terms of the Constitution, the JSC has the power to determine its own procedures, but these must be supported by a majority of its members.

Professor Cathi Albertyn, a professor of Constitutional Law at Wits, agreed with Yacoob that there should be a set of guidelines for the JSC to follow when appointing judges.

“We need to have clear, defined criteria and we need to be confident that politicians (who serve on the JSC) are acting in terms of that criteria,” she said.

Albertyn said a criterion of having acted as a judge appeared to be developing, but said only nine percent of acting appointments went to women judges.

Women judges are drastically underrepresented in South Africa’s courts, with only two female judges serving on the bench of the Constitutional Court.

Albertyn said only political activism would ensure there was gender representivity in South Africa’s courts.

“One does not, in my view, ‘save’ jobs by making it more and more difficult to dismiss employees and one does not make housing more widely available by rendering the ownership of property which is let to tenants a serious economic hazard.”

Maggs, its the PIE Act that needs rewriting, not the judgment. The objection I have to Willis’appointment is that according to Richard Calland, he was given a supremely untesting interview compared to one of the other white male contenders and then chosen over him. Bizarre.

Chris

It is of course not just the attitude and prujudices of a judge that should count, but also his ability to understand the law. This is a new judgement by Willes J: http://www.saflii.org.za/za/cases/ZAGPJHC/2013/41.html. In my humble opinion the judge was patently wrong in a very simple case of the intepretattion of a statue.
And who can forget the indignation he caused – was it last year or the year before that – with his remarks on his culture, in the Hlope matter in my mind serves me well.

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

Good for Judge Willes! Moer hulle, Oom!

We all know what happened here: A Judge with conscience who is loath to punish mere possession so harshly in a case where there was a warrantless search by cops who have never even heard they are compelled by the SAPS Act to get written authorisation from the Commissioner to set up a road-block.

Well Brett, you clearly have more knowledge of the case than the fact set out in the judgement. That makes it even worse. Should it be so that the cops did not have authorisation from the Commissioner to set up a road-block, I may add that the judge did not even mention it in his judgement. And a “warrantless search”? Do you mean a search not warranted by the circumstances, or warrantless as in not having a search warrant? I suppose you do know that the police don’t need a search warrant to search a vehicle in a road block. Then also “A Judge with conscience who is loath to punish mere possession so harshly. . . ” You know that the judge has the absolute discretion to interfere with the sentence if he thinks it to be disproportionate to the crime. I also find the use of the word “mere” somewhat curious. The “mere” possession of a gun with the serial number filed off! What would the origin of such a gun be? What do you think are used executing the countless robberies, murders and farm attacks in our country? Licensed firearms? No my friend, illegal fire arms, such as this one, taken during those robberies and murders, and the first things the criminals do is file off the serial number. Has it crossed your mind that this specific fire arm was probable part of the loot from an armed robbery, farm attack, murder that possibly included a rape or two as well?

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

Chris, I do not have more information – I’m reading between the lines of that judgement. Lets break this down piece by piece.

I meant ‘warrantless’ as in not having a search warrant. Explain to us how it is possible a search warrant is not required to search a car, and how this is consistent with at the very least S14 of the Bill of Rights?

I have never known the cops to have a certificate from the Commissioner authorising the setting up of a road-block. Once, in a road-block in Pretoria I decided to push the issue because the cops had already made me late and they came up after half an hour with a bedraggled photocopy.

If this guy stole the gun that is what he should have been prosecuted for. If he bought a stolen gun it is a continuing act and that is what he should have been prosecuted for.

“The appellant was arraigned in the Regional Court Kempton
Park on one count of contravening Section 3 of the Firearms Control Act, No 60 of 2000, that is unlawful possession of a firearm and one count of
contravening section 90 of the same Act, unlawful possession of ammunition.
The appellant was convicted and sentenced to 10 years imprisonment on the
first count and 5 years imprisonment on the second count. It was ordered
that the sentences run concurrently.”

If you look at S3 and S90 of this ‘Act’ and then at the ‘Penalties’ section in Schedule 4 the ‘progressives’ who drove this Act all the while being cheerlead and praisesung by other ‘Progressives’ like De Vos meant that this Seehole gets 15 years on each count. That is the purpose of the Act. Terror.

Remember the case of Willem Adriaan DuBuisson? Who got ‘pleaBARGAINED’ by a legal aid lawyer into 15 years for making ‘Jakkalskanonne’ in his garage?

It sucks. VivA Oom Willes VIVA!

Michael Osborne

Pierre, of course “merit” is a politically contested category. So too are all aesthetic, moral (and even scientific), judgments. If merit is to be discarded — or defined minimally, as the “technical” abilities to read and write — perhaps the way forward is to make every court into a court of equity. The judge must decide matters on a case by case basis, doing what is “right” in the circumstances, constrained only by the values of the Constitution.

Those among us who attach great weight to “merit” suppose that this would not be a good way for any legal system to function. They think that continuity, stability and predictability are independent and indispensable values, and we promote those goods by appointing judges with an excellent retentive memory, capacity for abstract reasoning, and probably long-experience in the law, to digest a vast amount of learning and precedent, distil the principles and apply them logically and consistently to complex fact patterns.

Of course, if one considers this a positivistic misdescription of the legal enterprise, “merit,” as conventionally understood in every legal system of which I am aware, is so much nonsense.

Gwebecimele

MO

Why is it that the best in other disciplines are getting younger and younger, a trend that seems to be frowned upon in legal circles?? I ask this because of your requirement “long-experience in the law”

I am not totally against experience but I think 10-15 yrs is sufficient anything beyond that is irrelevant and outdated.

Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Chris
April 11, 2013 at 13:09 pm

Chris (R-W-G or the other one?)

So the judge suggests that people cannot be charged for having unlicenced firearms if the serial numbers are filed off.

You raise an interesting question. You are right in these sense that, in the hard sciences, it is said that most of the great minds’ creative period ended when they were in their early 30’s. But if one looks at the record of the great judges of the U.S. Supreme Ct, Holmes, Brandeis, Frankfurter, etc, their finest judgments came in their 50’s, or even their 60s and 70’s Anyway, from a practical point of view, if I was on trial for my life, I would, all things being equal, choose a judge in her 60’s anytime, in preference to one in her 30’s. What would you do, if you could choose your own judge?

Zoo Keeper

Brett

There was another judgment in which the possessor was given 3 months because there was no criminal intent.

I have a serious problem with the criminalization of the mere possession of a thing without the concomitant criminal intent to commit a crime.

In terms of firearms, I would like someone to explain the rationality behind licensing as a first. No assumptions of course, but a fully reasoned argument that licensing is a rational requirement and of course what purpose it serves.

If we could start there (maybe Chris will volunteer), we could then begin an interesting debate – no so?

Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Michael Osborne
April 11, 2013 at 16:25 pm

Prof MO,

“if I was on trial for my life, I would, all things being equal, choose a judge in her 60′s anytime, in preference to one in her 30′s”

If you were on trial for your life, here’s a tip.

Choose the one if you could, who’s most likely to blunder.

If the blunder leads to your acquittal then you’re home free.

If the blunder leads to a conviction then that’s likely to be a basis for acquittal on appeal.

But don’t choose a judge whose judgements are not likely to get overturned higher up the line.

p.s. When you hear a noise in the bathroom – run like hell!

Gwebecimele

MO

Many Executives retire around 60 but somehow lawyers and politicicians think the can go forever. If Bizos or Turok were my father they would be at home playing with the grandchildren.

Michael Osborne

@ Gwebe

Bizos at 80 does a better job than any lawyer I know in their 30’s; and I would sooner vote for Turok than for most younger MP’s of any party.

But do answer my challenge: if you could, hypothetically, and all else being equal, choose whether to be tried by a serious crimes by a judge of my tender age, or by a judge in her mid 60’s, which would you pick? Am I just ageist in my assumption that, ceteris paribus, the older judge would be more likely to have that ill-defined virtue that people call “wisdom”?

Dmwangi

I’m disappointed in Brother Mogoeng. Does transformation really mean that all of the “cis-gender/cis-sexual” ppl must transform themselves into transgendered/transsexuals? Or does superior judicial wisdom only accrue to those with natural ovaries and non-synthetic vaginas?

“Cape Town – Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng abruptly dismissed an aspiring judge on Thursday after he dithered when asked if female candidates should be given preference.

Sinky Nkosi, an attorney in Nelspruit, was being interviewed in Cape Town by the Judicial Service Commission (JSC) for a vacancy in the North and South Gauteng division.

Commission member Dumisa Ntsebeza asked him how he would react if a deserving male candidate were overlooked and all four vacancies were awarded to women.

Nkosi replied that he would accept the decision as the prerogative of the JSC and would consider applying again when new vacancies became available.

He was interrupted by Mogoeng, who said: “No, no, he is asking for your opinion on transformation.”

The chief justice reminded Nkosi that transformation of the judiciary was a constitutional imperative, and added: “What should it be in your view? Should there be a preference for women?”

Nkosi answered that “assuming” there was an over-representation of one gender, he believed it should be corrected.

But Mogoeng interrupted him: “Base your opinion on what is the position.”

Finally Nkosi answered that he believed “at least one man has to be given an opportunity”.

Mogoeng thanked Nkosi and signalled that the interview was over without asking, as is customary, whether the candidate would like to add anything.

Nkosi said after the interview he believed the demographics of the Bench should be addressed and he believed this cause would be served by giving as many as three positions to women.

He added: “You cannot leave merit out of it.”

Earlier, Nkosi had been quizzed by Mogoeng and other commissioners on his track record while serving as an acting judge in the division, and had given assurances that he had no outstanding judgments.

This has been a key criteria for the chief justice during interviews with candidates this week to fill eight vacancies.

Mogoeng told candidates it was of primary importance that they had a gameplan for righting the division’s “embarrassing” record of high numbers of reserved judgments.

ZooKeeper, I’ll see if I can find where I saved Traps’ opinion on that case – in Thoughtleader – to.

“Among deprivations of rights, none is so effective in cowing a population, crushing the spirit of the individual and putting terror in every heart. Uncontrolled search and seizure is one of the first and most effective weapons in the arsenal of every arbitrary government.”

Sachs J referring with approval to the classic words of Jackson J in Brinegar v US…

Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng abruptly dismissed an aspiring judge on Thursday after he dithered when asked if female candidates should be given preference.

My retirement plan is that Tanfoglio TA 90 (remember, the one which saved my dad’s life – I’ll retell the story if you twist my arm.)

I bought it for R250 from an insolvent estate during the 90s – it had obviously been stolen and recovered at some time as an attempt was made to file the serial no off. You know I’m not greedy, not materialistic – quite unlike your average white or South Asian South African.

If the cops arrest me I’m not going to act like I hit the Jackpot. Enough will do me fine, you know, like just the amount the average ANC member working for a town council would be comfortable off if he had only one brother and one sister to steer tenders to?

Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Michael Osborne
April 11, 2013 at 19:52 pm

Prof,

“Bizos at 80 does a better job than any lawyer I know in their 30′s;”

According to Ismail Ayob on 702 this morning, Bizos hijacked a company.

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?
April 11, 2013 at 20:15 pm

Brett,

“quite unlike your average white or South Asian South African.”

Let me remind you of two things.

First there’s no such thing as “your average white” – as you know all whites are born intrinsically above average. Some appear average or below only because of the ANC.

Secondly, there’s no such thing as a big, fat, greedy, greedy, beer-drinking, pork-guzzling, navel-gazing South Asian South African – so the two should not appear in the same sentence. It’s offensive – perhaps the HRC will have a few words with you!

Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

“South Africa: a nation of dummies

South Africa’s education system is producing a nation of dummies. The country is faring second worst in the world in mathematics and science education, new research by the World Economic Forum shows. By Craig Wilson.

The World Economic Forum has painted a shocking picture of South Africa’s education system, and its maths and science education in particular. In the forum’s 2013 Global IT Report, it ranks the country second last for maths and science education and fifth-last for its overall education system.

The report ranks country’s education worse than many of the world’s poorest nations, saying it’s a major obstacle the country must overcome if it is to compete with its African peers, let alone hold its own on the rest of the international stage.

Of the 144 countries surveyed, South Africa placed 143rd for the quality of its maths and science education and 139th for its overall education system. South Africa ranks ahead of only Yemen, Burundi, Libya and Haiti overall. In maths and science, only war-torn Yemen ranks lower. …”

You forgot to delete the exclamation mark in your latest signature, sunshine.

Boy, am I pleased you twisted my arm to adopt a signature myself?

Dmwangi

@Maggs:

Please carry the message back home to your brethren: “We look after Indians in our countries. They have become rich there. All we want here is for Indians to understand we are not drug dealers.” Seems only the “enlightened Christians” of India understand this.

’10 April 2013
Africans complain of discrimination in Mumbai, India

Nigerian Sambo Davis is married to an Indian woman and lives in Mumbai.

All his documents are valid, but he was arrested by the police recently on suspicion of being a drug dealer.

He and 30 other black Africans were detained for hours before they were let off with an apology.

But the following day, Mr Davis said that he was shocked to read in local newspapers that they were “arrested for drug peddling”.

“The police treat us Africans like dogs,” he says.

Mr Davis claims he often faces discrimination when he goes to restaurants or when he tries to rent an apartment in gated middle-class communities.

But he is nevertheless one of the lucky ones. He found a decent flat to rent, thanks to his Indian wife.

But his fellow countrymen, he says, still face discrimination: “When they go to rent flats in a normal building they are told – ‘you are a black man, you are Nigerian, and you are not wanted’. This is racism.”

‘Hide and seek’
There is no official data on how many Africans live in Mumbai, but since India’s economic progress gathered momentum in recent years, many have come to work in and around the city. Unofficial estimates put their numbers at more than 5,000.

Most of them are engaged in exporting garments to Nigeria and other African countries.

Many others are students, enrolled in the region’s prestigious educational institutions.

But there are also hundreds of Africans, mostly Nigerians, who live as illegal immigrants in India. They have either “lost” their passports or their visas have “expired”.

Every day, these people play hide-and-seek with the police – if they are caught, they are sent to jail.

Ikeorah Junior from Lagos runs a cafe for Africans in a crowded market on Mumbai’s Mohammed Ali Road.

“I don’t understand why they [police] have to go from house to house to arrest the people who don’t have their papers. If they don’t have papers, then deport them, don’t put them in jail,” he says.

Ahmed Javed, who is in charge of maintaining law and order in the state of Maharashtra, says it is not that simple: “In most cases they have no passports. So, unless their nationalities are determined, they cannot be deported.”

Dozens of Africans have taken up residence on Mira Road, a dusty, nondescript town just outside Mumbai.

One “illegal immigrant” there asked me for money, claiming he had not eaten for two days.

He looked worried and told me that he had been approached by drug dealers to work for them.

Many Africans face discrimination when they try to rent apartments
“I have been here for three years – my visa expired a long time ago. I want to go back home. Please help me, brother,” he tells me.

In this neighbourhood, Negro or kaalia (black in Hindi) are the two words indiscriminately used to describe all black people.

“We call them Negro because they are black. They look frightening,” says one woman.

“They don’t find homes to rent in Mumbai, they only stay in Mira Road. Why? Because of the way they behave. They sell drugs and indulge in other illegal activities. They cannot be trusted,” a local man commented, seemingly unaware of the offensive nature of his words.

‘Embarrassed and ashamed’
Against such a backdrop of pronounced prejudice, Sheeba Rani married Sambo Davis four years ago and the couple have two children.

Mrs Davis says her parents are enlightened Christians and they blessed them because they thought the marriage was God’s wish.

But, she says, she has been ostracised by many friends, relatives and society since her marriage.

Mrs Davis is “embarrassed and ashamed” by the behaviour of the Indian people towards black Africans.

Sheeba Rani’s parents blessed the couple saying the marriage was God’s wish
“When I used to go to a mall or if I walked with him, I always wanted him to hold my hand. But when people saw me with him, they thought I was from a bad family or even a prostitute.”

Earlier, she did not understand why black people were being looked down upon, but now she says she does.

“Because our society is obsessed with white skin. If I had married a white man, I would have gained more friends and society’s approval too.”

Mr Davis believes that the discrimination is solely “because I am a black man”.

“It’s because I am from Africa, I am a Nigerian. I think Indians see us as inferior.”

Yet despite the discrimination they face, nearly all Africans the BBC interviewed said they had a soft spot for their adopted country.

They say the relations between India and Africa are “rock solid”. Many argued that Indians and Africans are brothers.

“We look after Indians in our countries. They have become rich there. All we want here is for Indians to understand we are not drug dealers. We are not violent. We are just like them.”‘

Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Dmwangi
April 11, 2013 at 20:58 pm

Hey Dm,

“We look after Indians in our countries.”

As you previously noted, Idi Amin did a great job!

Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?
April 11, 2013 at 20:55 pm

No G, I didn’t forget the “!”

That’s shorthand for my middle finger.

Dmwangi

@Maggs:

I see. So because Idi Amin was unkind to Indians, Indians are now allowed to “treat Africans like dogs.” Quintessential example of the irrationality of PdV acolytes.

Btw, how have Indians done in Uganda circa the 21st century?

Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Dmwangi
April 11, 2013 at 21:26 pm

Hey DMwangi,

I think you’re fibbing that “[Indians] treat Africans like dogs.”

By your own post :

Yet despite the discrimination they face, nearly all Africans the BBC interviewed said they had a soft spot for their adopted country.

They say the relations between India and Africa are “rock solid”. Many argued that Indians and Africans are brothers.

“We look after Indians in our countries. They have become rich there. All we want here is for Indians to understand we are not drug dealers. We are not violent. We are just like them.”‘

Anyway – you are the one who raised the spectre of Idi Amin as some kind of threat and that wonderful term “rent-seeking Indians”.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Michael Osborne
April 11, 2013 at 15:10 pm

“Pierre, of course “merit” is a politically contested category. So too are all aesthetic, moral (and even scientific), judgments.”

More or less yes. If we stopped believing in gravity that is a mere social construct then we stupid engineers could stop spending so much time and effort designing wings on our airplanes.

Dmwangi

Maggs:

Notice the African brothers said Indian and Africans are brothers. Nowhere in the article is it even implied that Indians hold the same sentiment. In fact, if you weren’t illiterate, you’d notice that India sounds a lot like apartheid SA: segregated housing, police brutality, and anti-miscegenation, all justified in terms of racial superiority. Btw, how are Indians getting along in Kenya and TZ?

“‘“The police treat us Africans like dogs,” he says.’

““We call them Negro because they are black. They look frightening,” says one woman.”‘

‘“It’s because I am from Africa, I am a Nigerian. I think Indians see us as inferior.”’

‘”“They don’t find homes to rent in Mumbai, they only stay in Mira Road. Why? Because of the way they behave. They sell drugs and indulge in other illegal activities. They cannot be trusted,” a local man commented, seemingly unaware of the offensive nature of his words.'”

‘”But his fellow countrymen, he says, still face discrimination: “When they go to rent flats in a normal building they are told – ‘you are a black man, you are Nigerian, and you are not wanted’. This is racism.”’

‘”“Because our society is obsessed with white skin. If I had married a white man, I would have gained more friends and society’s approval too.”’

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

@PdV

“Thus, a judge who grew up in Houghton, went to an English private school in the midlands and then studied at Oxford before practicing at the Bar where he did mostly commercial work for big corporations, might lack the wisdom and experience – and therefore a different kind of “merit” – that another judge who grew up in a rural village, studied at Fort Hare and lived in Soweto while working for a small law firm might possess.”

Conflating class, culture and race issues again the some old tiresome formula been done again and again.

Dmwangi

OB:

…”we stupid engineers could stop spending so much time and effort designing wings on our airplanes.”

Agree with your post. But I’m confused about your use of the pronoun ‘we’ in that sentence. Are you an engineer?

Maggs Naidu

DM aka Doos – you’re reading a different article to me. From what I read there’s a oke who is married to an Indian.

And from what I heard the cops there are pretty awful to everyone.

Even Indian Congress leader Sonia Gandhi is regarded as an outsider.

Anyone who wants to go live in that crappy country deserves what they get.

BTW you’ve been to India – what was yourb own experience?

Dmwangi

@OB:

“Thus, a judge who grew up in Houghton, went to an English private school in the midlands and then studied at Oxford before practicing at the Bar where he did mostly commercial work for big corporations, might lack the wisdom and experience….”

Why do you presume this judge could not be black? It sounds vaguely similar to the trajectory my son is heading toward.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Dmwangi
April 11, 2013 at 22:00 pm

“Agree with your post. But I’m confused about your use of the pronoun ‘we’ in that sentence. Are you an engineer?”

Yep. And at the risk of saying too much about who I am I deal lots with Public Works.

Dmwangi

Maggs:

The Indian *woman*, who is married to the Nigerian man in the article, and her parents, were exempted in my caveat about “enlightened Christians” in India, who, the article point out, seem to be the only ones in that country that recognise the human rights and dignity of Africans, or “kaalia[s]” as they call them. The woman even points out how unusual her relationship is: her fellow Indians treat her like a prostitute simply for cahorting with an African. Very sad.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Dmwangi
April 11, 2013 at 22:10 pm

Why don’t you address that question to PvD?

Did he ever mention “Black women” or am I assuming too much?

“and the need to appoint more *black* and female judges (as part of the need to transform the judiciary)”

But we don’t know how that “need” is “constructed” yet. It is obviously not based on a “need” from any natural laws.

Dmwangi

Because it seems to be PdV values diversity in everything but thought; non-conformity in everything except his personal beliefs. He’s just as happy to savage a an African woman who doesn’t share his weltanschauung as he is a white man. I imagine his vision of a transformed judiciary does not include any pro-life, traditionalist African women like my brilliant and immensely capable wife.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Michael Osborne
April 11, 2013 at 15:10 pm

“Those among us who attach great weight to “merit” suppose that this would not be a good way for any legal system to function. They think that continuity, stability and predictability are independent and indispensable values, and we promote those goods by appointing judges with an excellent retentive memory, capacity for abstract reasoning, and probably long-experience in the law, to digest a vast amount of learning and precedent, distil the principles and apply them logically and consistently to complex fact patterns.”

You see we get back to that point Ramphele made about the total destruction of professional ethics. The PdV types/CRT bandwagonners believe that human being cannot overcome their own prejudice through education and professional training. In there profoundly anti-humanistic universe we are what we are and we can only deal justly with others when we identify with them on a very, almost primordial animalistic level. We are robots programmed by “social constructs”, thus “our identity” is an inescapable filter of how we perceive ourselves and how we behave towards others.

Taken to the logical consequence it is a more liberalised and sanitised world view of essentially apartheid philosophy that boils down to the same conclusion – “likes” can only realistically engage with “likes” – “the other” is the intruder and the violator. Blacks must be with Blacks. Whites must be with Whites. Coloured must be with Coloureds. etc. and so on.

And after all the doctrine of “separate development” is not too far removed from that.

I doubt very much my Granny would have made it to the bench either, if PdV had anything to do with it. Although brilliant, she showed no interest in Critical Race Theory and despised Drucilla. In fact, her all time favorite jurisprude was Robert Bork!

Thanks.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Dmwangi
April 11, 2013 at 22:45 pm

“I imagine his vision of a transformed judiciary does not include any pro-life, traditionalist African women like my brilliant and immensely capable wife.”

Correct. He flip-flops like a fish out of water between:

“Those who are culturally and economically not dominant often possess different skills-sets – valuable in its own right – that are nevertheless not valued, or not sufficiently valued. Those who are not members of the cultural and economic dominant group (or who have not managed the skill to mimic the attributes and attitudes of the culturally and economically dominant group) are often dismissed as not possessing the requisite “merit” to be appointed to positions.”

and this criticism of what he perceives as poor judgement:

“In the process the honourable judge displayed the kind of attitude towards women that is difficult to square with the progressive values in our Constitution, stating that:

I think that Western culture could derive much wisdom from the view prevalent in African, Hindu, Muslim and Chinese cultures that the first few weeks of a child’s life should be a special time with its mother, with both of them freed as much as possible from outside distractions and surrounded by love and support. Moreover, motherhood is not some minor inconvenience in a woman’s life. I also think we should be astute not to cultivate the idea that motherhood is entirely secondary to the greater glories of job satisfaction.”

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

De Vos has never heard of cost-to-company.

Dmwangi

OB:

This is a keen insight:

“I think that Western culture could derive much wisdom from the view prevalent in African, Hindu, Muslim and Chinese cultures that the first few weeks of a child’s life should be a special time with its mother, with both of them freed as much as possible from outside distractions and surrounded by love and support. Moreover, motherhood is not some minor inconvenience in a woman’s life. I also think we should be astute not to cultivate the idea that motherhood is entirely secondary to the greater glories of job satisfaction.”

I would much rather have a white man who is capable of such perceptiveness on the bench, than a black version of PdV.

Dmwangi

Although, I should hastily add that I do not endorse all of the other views the judge expressed in this peice.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Dmwangi
April 11, 2013 at 23:19 pm

“I would much rather have a white man who is capable of such perceptiveness on the bench, than a black version of PdV.”

Exactly.

I would go further at the risk of sounding homophobic. The fact that he cannot or will not recognise the basic inescapable biological bond between a women and her baby tells me he is more or less used to a life style that totally excludes that experience.

In a healthy and open political/philosophical environment even though he could not empathise he would have the “wisdom” to accept and to integrate that fact. Instead of ignoring it or even going as far as vilifying it as same undesirable phenomenon hostile to the concept of human rights and/or the constitution.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Dmwangi
April 11, 2013 at 23:24 pm

“Although, I should hastily add that I do not endorse all of the other views the judge expressed in this peice.”

No. He hit it right on the button. A capitalist society cannot afford “unproductive” women in the work force. He is telling the truth. Had we been a socialist society his judgement could probably be different. It has close to fuck all to do with white supremacy, or male domination, or gender inequality, or patriarchy, or Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck for that matter

It is plain and simple economics. If you worked for a a small struggling company where every productive input counts and every salary must be earned for survival you would understand what I mean.

Dmwangi

OB:

“Instead of ignoring it or even going as far as vilifying it as same undesirable phenomenon hostile to the concept of human rights and/or the constitution.”

Hence, the paradox I’ve been on about: for all PdV’s prattle about sec. 174(2) and the need for transformation, what he really means by transformation has nothing to do with what most ppl take him to mean (i.e. demographics) and everything to do with having a judiciary sympathetic to his worldview, which happens to include an overt hostility toward African culture, historically understood. In other words, he claims to want more Africans on the bench but only if they reject all African customary law in favour of his cultural preferences– Western liberalism.

A new brand of neo-colonialism is now masquerading under the banner of “transformation.”

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Dmwangi
April 11, 2013 at 23:57 pm

“A new brand of neo-colonialism is now masquerading under the banner of “transformation.”

Again I have to agree. But you know the history of this chap, you know who really pulled the strings in old/new South Africa, you know the UCT and who sponsors them, you understand what “democracy” and “human rights” mean in the global Western dominant culture – there are no surprises to be had.

He pretends like he rages against it all – but he doesn’t really, he is the ultimate product.

Dmwangi

Hence, PdV’s need to clarify that transformation includes “merit,” which is only garnered by subscribing to his political views. After all, if transformation was merely a demographic exercise, he would run the risk of some blacks (or women) who don’t share his beliefs being appointed. But by defining “merit” as being sympathetic to particular things like radical feminism, LBGTQism, etc., and including it as a criterion to judge the degree of transformation, he can ensure his political outcome is legislated from the bench.

It’s a very furtive move.

Dmwangi

For that matter, if “transformation” was intended to mean some demographic imperative, PdV would be the first to go. White, male, over privileged. He should be gone. Nope, “transformation” must be mean “meritorious,” which of course means having a particular mindset or cluster of philosophical beliefs, which, ironically, includes the notion that actual “merit” is a misnomer.

It’s all incredibly Orwellian.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Dmwangi
April 12, 2013 at 0:21 am

“Hence, PdV’s need to clarify that transformation includes “merit,” which is only garnered by subscribing to his political views.”

Sort of. But I like to face reality. We are a Western country, like it or not, we exist in a Western dominated world just as many other African countries have been deeply influenced by Western colonialism. How do we embrace the suppressed memories of African heritage and contemporary rural Africa to help us to heal and move forward. I do not wish to time-travel back to 65BC or 1000AD or 1652, or 1994.

We are a modern people living in a modern world.

Dmwangi

I have no idea what you’re talking about. You seem to think a ppl cannot be ‘modern’ without being Western. I can give you a plethora of examples and distinguished thinkers from all over the world to refute that claim. There is no opposition between embracing the scientific method as a means to grow the economy and improve living standards, and rejecting the dogma of metaphysical empiricism.

Why must one embrace the Western and highly contestable and unproven claim that human nature is fundamentally individualistic, self-interested, utility-maximizing, voluntaristic, etc. in order to be ‘modern?’ Modernity is built on applied science, not any particular political philosophy– as the Asian tigers can attest.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Dmwangi
April 12, 2013 at 1:02 am

“Why must one embrace the Western and highly contestable and unproven claim that human nature is fundamentally individualistic, self-interested, utility-maximizing, voluntaristic, etc. in order to be ‘modern?”

Because we have already embraced it. A special colonial brand of it. But I’m not convinced that “Western values” necessarily equates to “fundamentally individualistic, self-interested, utility-maximizing, voluntaristic”.

In fact Margaret Thatcher just passed away.

Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Dmwangi
April 11, 2013 at 23:19 pm

Dm,

“I would much rather have a white man who is capable of such perceptiveness on the bench”

You really shouldn’t be admitting such things in public.

This is, after all, a family blog!

Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Dmwangi,

I phrased this rather crudely and insensitively – it’s withdrawn to be properly substituted later.

“Anyone who wants to go live in that crappy country deserves what they get.”

Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

President Jacob Zuma last week grumbled about too many people wanting to govern South Africa. Actually, all the country’s citizens are doing is seeking the leadership they deserve.

“The problem in South Africa is that everyone wants to run the country,” Zuma said at the memorial last week for the South African National Defence Force soldiers who were slain in the Central African Republic (CAR) in late March.

“Military matters are military matters. They are not social matters and I wish South Africans would appreciate that and therefore know which line not to cross, for the sake of the country.”

The president’s utterances were not only alarming as they encapsulated the antithesis of our constitutional democracy – of which civilian oversight is a fundamental part – but the comments also called his own track record as president into question.

@Dmwangi – A gentleman by the name Friedrich Von Hayek in book titled The Constitution of Liberty argued exactly that, that only indivuals have the ability to determine their own costs and benefits because they are entirely subjective and that socialism could only be an inferior system to capitalism because it was far less efficient.
This is the economic policy that Margret Thatcher followed enabling Britain to pull it self out of the mess that the socialist labour goverment had created bearing in mind that our exiled ANC leaders are graduates of these failed labour polices.
The economic policy of the Asian tigers that you refer to was fundamentally individualistic and untility maximizing such as South Korea and now Vietnam, and those that were not such as North Korea and Burma became failed states.
And then of course there was Japan who as a paralel during the cold war era showed exactly why communisn in China is the failure it is and always will be.
China is not an efficient state as there is evidence of whole towns having been built that are unoccupied, notwithstanding shocking eviromental damage the effects which are still to be paid for.It is also a country that does not provide welfare grants or goverment pension funds and when you factor that in there is a serious old age funding crunch comming in that part of the world.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Mike
April 12, 2013 at 8:11 am

Well if we can’t make socialism work in South Africa, we are doomed to failure. The wealth gap is only going to get bigger, if we cannot find a way to engineer a society that is less individualistic and more sharing, more equitable without resorting to pure racialism as means of entitlement we are either going through a revolution or a white backlash sooner than latter.

There is no stopping that. I wedged my bets on a socialist solution – I will not however accept a new racist regime where my kids have no future, then if I have no choice to I will rather revert back to White nationalism and stand with my own.

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

He he he – “make socialism work in South Africa”?

Ho ho ho! oooh whahaha!

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

Ki ki ki ki!

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?
April 12, 2013 at 8:54 am

So what you want then – a new racial demographic regime where Whites must me impoverished to the same ratio’s than the Black population. Another two million or so to go. Exactly what is your solution, or you believe you can get away by maintaining the status quo?

As I said before – with people like you and Genocide Watch – you talk-talk-talk pro-white but you have a hidden agenda, and you use whites like collateral in a propaganda war

.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

@brett

Please do me a favour, ask your pals at socalled “Genocide Watch” to respond to my email. Thank you in advance.

More of the same racist hatred openly expressed by Andile Mngxitama
(policy advisor to the South African based Human Rights Foundation) on
regular basis-

“[W]henever we see that little white bastard called Jared Sacks we must
beat the shit out of him … ” Mngxitama, who also contributes to the
M&G, said on Facebook.

Mngxitama took exception to an article written by social activist and
independent journalist Jared Sacks in the M&G on March 15 titled, Biko
would not vote for Ramphele.

According to GroundUp, later, in the same Facebook correspondence,
Mngxitama wrote: “I know this white boy. He goes to the township, fuck
up community organisations and now he is fucking with biko and bc. No!
This is not a joke. He better b prepared.”

Has Genocide Watch heard about the attack on Dali Mpofu in East London? I demand that they study the possibility of a GENOCIDAL campaign against black males in this country!

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

And this is how our White liberals reacts when they get violently arse-raped by the likes of Mnxatima. They curl up in the fetus position and then resort back to the only response they have been conditioned i.e. blame it again on “white supremacist” knee jerk response.

“Has Genocide Watch heard about the attack on Dali Mpofu in East London? I demand that they study the possibility of a GENOCIDAL campaign against black males in this country!”

Genocide? Really – was Helen Zille/Pieter Mulder chanting “kill the Blacks” on public podiums and blaming them for everything that is wrong in South Africa.

Links please.

Mike

@Ozone Blue – Would you like to know why the Soviet Union and Apartheid South Africa was a failure ? it is because of “social engineering ” which is excatly the solution you are advocating.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Mike
April 12, 2013 at 9:49 am

“@Ozone Blue – Would you like to know why the Soviet Union and Apartheid South Africa was a failure ? it is because of “social engineering ” which is excatly the solution you are advocating.”

So what do you want to over as a solution. Where are you, Brett, your “Genocide Watch”, your Solidarity, your Afriforum?

“My land, ‘even if I just want to look at it’

Andile’s panel discussion had been an expose of his uncompromising position that has no interest in settlement or pragmatism toward black liberation from white oppression, which clearly remains the social and economic order in a post-Apartheid South Africa. In a statement that some would examine the next day in conversation, he said that his position on land was that it belonged to blacks. Period. It should be reclaimed from white ownership regardless of economic, agricultural, or social repercussions. He said, “..even if I just wake up and look at it [my land]. Because it’s mine!””

You are right. “Madame” Zille is not on record as having chanted “kill the blacks.” Not in so many words.

But the point is that the campaign of GENOCIDE of black males is so successful that such overt chants are not necessary. How else do you explain that the per capita chances of a black males being murdered are much higher than the equivalent stat for whites males? Or do you have yet another stat from Freedom Front plus showing the very opposite to be true?

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Mikhail Dworkin Fassbender
April 12, 2013 at 11:38 am

So no link then? Showing White leaders inciting racial hatred against Black people, calling for killing of Black people and blaming them for everything that is wrong. Threatening them with violence, referring to them as “settlers” and so on and so forth.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

And backed up by a whining mob of White liberals continuously blaming Whites – “White Supremacy”, vilifying them as a minority group when they do not control government, the police force, the justice system or the army – and they have de-invested themsleves of any real political power?

Anonymouse

I BROADLY welcome and concur with Prof De Vos’ viewpoints in this regard. I do however use the word BROADLY here because, the so-called ‘constitutional imperative’ that the judiciiary must at all costs be ‘transformed’ to reflect the racial and gender composition of South Africa that we find in section 174(2) of the Constitution uses that word when it states: “The need for the judiciary to reflect BROADLY the racial and gender composition of South Africa must be considered when judiciial ooffiicers are appointed.”

Firstly, one should note that ‘BROADLY’ does not mean ‘EXACTLY’, which should cllearly be indicative that the Constituution does not call for a quota system to be applied in this regard. (Adv Izak Smuts’ debate inspiring document – that was considered in a private session of the JSC! – creates the impression that the JSC would more likely than not recommend the appointment black and female candidates and that white male candidates are mostly sidelined and not considered according to merit – so that sometimes vacancies would not be filled but advertised again even though white males were short-listed and interviewed (and found to be meritous of appointmmennt) but, because no suitable black or woman applicant or, rather, ‘nominee’ existed. If this is so, the JSC clearly follows a so-calleed ‘quota system’, which would be unconstitutional should one have regard to sect 174(2).)

Secondly, one should note that section 174(2) uses the term ‘GENDER’ (as opposed to “SEX” and “SEXUAL ORIENTATION”- see section 9(3) of the Constitution for the distinction between ‘sex’, ‘sexual orientation’ and ‘gender’) as one of the measuring standards according to which the population composition of South Africa should be determined, the other one being ‘race’. Accepting that This provides for an extremely problemmatic approach. Does this mean that the constitutional imperative is aimed, not so much at promoting the appointmment of more ‘women’ (or ‘females’) vis-a-vis men (males)? Or, does it mean that more females should be appointed and, if so, what should the racial composition be of their number? What about physical disabilities? Mustn’t that also be considered?

For these two reasons alone, therefore, there is enough grounds for the JSC to thoroughly debate the issue afresh (before the next round of advertisement and short-listings for interview) and to determine what is meant with ‘transformation’ (a term that the Constitution doies not use) and ‘merit’ (also a term that the Constitution does not use). The Constitution says only that “any appropriately qualified woman or man who is a fit and proper person may be appointed as a judicial officer”; and, that “the need for the judiciary to reflect BROADLY the RACIAL and GENDER composition of South Africa must be CONSIDERED when judicial officers are appointed”. The way in which teh JSC (and the President) must do this is still something that is largely to be determined – parhaps the thing must once and forever be taken to the Constitutional Court to pronounce on. (There, at least, Mogoeng CJ will have only one vote and his ability, if any, to convince the other Justices of his viewpoint that hye advocated at the JSC session this week, and he will not have the opportunity to, all by himself, formulate the ‘law’ in this regard. The Constitutional Court is further better placed than the politically loaded JSC – I couldn’t help but notice Jeff Radebe’s stern look at Mogoeng when Mogoeng pronounced on the issue that Smuts raised on national TV – to pronounce on this issue, which has become a very valid worry for members of the public.)

And, then again, lastly, one must investigate the reasons why so little suitably qualified black (black, coloured, Indian) and female applicants make themselves available for judicial appointment. Could it be that they are simply not interested? (Is the pay and tenure of a judge too low compared to a successful private practicve? Is it so that ladies are generally not as keen on a transfer to another city or job than what they and their husbands / partners, families and friends are used to and willing to sacrifice? Could it be that they simply view themselves as inferior and not possessing the desired qualities and attributes for appointment; and, if so, what can be done to correct this viewpoint? Etc.) Or, could it be that there are simply not enough suitably qualified people of those race and gender qualifications that can be found and sucessfully nominated for appointment. Then there is the issue that, the appoinment of black and female judges in the High Courts effectively drains the pool from which appropriately qualified black and female members of society could be drawn to the regional and district court benches – here the whole issue of the difference in pay between the lowest level of judge and the highest level of magistrate comes into play.

I believe that many (if not all) of these issues should first be addressed before the JSC’s processes will again gain credibility. At the moment, I must agree with Prof De Vos: “The walk of the JSC is inconsistent with its talk”. And, I specifically endorse the following view advanced by him:
“If I am correct, this also implies that although the starting point for the transformation of the judiciary will always be the need to change the racial and gender composition of the bench, the notion of “transformation” should also be understood as requiring the appointment of judges who have demonstrated a strong commitment to the pro-poor, pro-human dignity, pro-egalitarian ethos embedded in our Constitution and in the jurisprudence of the Constitutional Court.”

Michael Osborne

@ Ozone

There may or may not be a causal link between the Kill da Boer chanting and murders of whites. Are there any studies on the subject? I do not get the impression that there was a marked increase in attacks on whites after the song was revived by Malema in 2010. But let us assume for purposes of argument that I am wrong on that. Do you dispute that the per capita chances of a black male being murdered are significantly higher than whites? If so, how would you explain that?

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Michael Osborne
April 12, 2013 at 12:37 pm

So let me try to understand the logic. It is fine for senior political leaders to encourage their supporters to blame one relatively vulnerable minority group for all their troubles and even to sing and dance about killing members of that group. As long as there is no proven “causal link” between the brutal murders that then ensues? To talk about total dispossession and in fact denying their historical rights to full citizenship.

Should we sit around and wait until such hateful and manipulative propaganda actually culminates in proven higher “per-capita murders” on that group or even in some massive blood bath – as Andile Mngxitama promises wait for us “dogs” in some historical corner? And that after almost all our next door neighbours have been methodology and systematically ethnically cleaned based on more or less the same modus-operandi?

Is it just me or is that a bizarrely insane pov?

Gwebecimele

Dworky

Do you know comrade Braam Hanekom?

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

Ozoneblue says:
April 12, 2013 at 13:42 pm

Especially when everyone is avoiding collation of the statistics, the HRC is gunning for the one lay-person whio is trying and a racial homicide breakdown is very deliberately not kept to the point of not recording race on the murder docket?

“As long as there is no proven “causal link” between the brutal murders that then ensues? ”

Yes, I am afraid that is the price we pay for entrenching free speech in the constitution. I fully endorse the right of Malema to say hateful things about whites, must as I would endorse the right of white racists to say whatever they like about blacks.

But you still evade my question: why is the per capita victimhood of black males much higher than for whites?

Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

@ Gwebe: No. Should I?

But on another issue, I have a question for you: Do we need a “white messiah” like Cronin to concur with the “coloured messiah” Manuel that we can no longer blame apartheid for the tragic beaching of whales on Cape beaches?

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

The problem is that it might have gone beyond ‘speech’ to ‘preparation’…

“The problem is that it might have gone beyond ‘speech’ to ‘preparation’…”

If that is true, that is a different matter. It goes beyond the free speech issue we were discussing. [BTW, was there not some report about “right wing” training camps for “boer” youth in the ST a year or two ago?]

Can’t think of any Afrikaans leader with more than a handful of followers who goes around singing songs about killing innocent black people.

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

Does Franny Rabkin think Rule of Law did not exist during Apartheid?

Dmwangi

@Mike:

I am extremely well-versed in Hayek and the Austrian school. You’re simply wrong about his (quite limited) contribution to the field of economics and the underlying causes of economic growth in the Asian tigers. I have no inclination to educate and/or debate you about these issues so I’ll just point you to the work of S. Marglin regarding the former and R. Solow for the latter. Asian familism/collectivism is extremely well-documented as is the fact that nearly all growth in modern economies is the result of applied science. There is zero demonstrable evidence showing that the methodological assumptions of neoclassicism — self-interest, rationality, utility-maximizing– are true or are causal factors of growth. To the contrary, the ‘behavioural’ ideas of ppl like Thaler, Kahneman, etc. seem to be all he rage nowadays (bounded rationality, info. asymmetry, interpersonal utility judgements, etc.)

@Anonymouse:

“… the notion of “transformation” should also be understood as requiring the appointment of judges who have demonstrated a strong commitment to the pro-poor, pro-human dignity, pro-egalitarian ethos embedded in our Constitution and in the jurisprudence of the Constitutional Court.”’

Exactly my point. You and PdV advocate that “transformation” and the appointment of judges requires candidates meet your ideological test. How does this work with respect to highly contentious issues that divide democratic polities? Would a candidate opposed to lesbian IVF lack the “pro-egalitarian,” or “pro-human dignity” traits to be appointed? How about those who hold ‘conservative’ economic views about labour markets. Do they not meet the “pro-poor” test. Reasonable ppl disagree on what macroeconomic labour policies most help the poor. It seems to me you and PdV are trying to ensure your personal policy preferences are legislated through the courts by creating a judicial appointment test that only your ideological brethren can satisfy.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Michael Osborne
April 12, 2013 at 15:22 pm

So now some of our or most popular/eminent Black leaders earn the same moral equivalence than some nameless faceless White Supremacist scum. Tit-for-tat. Like a groomed human turning around and eating his own faeces because he saw some pigs over there do it too.

Well done Michael. Thanks for making that point. I will bear that in mind next time I vote.

Truth

I find it curious that when there were no female candidates the JSC refused to halt the process and pushed ahead and recommended only men to the President but when there are no black candidates the posts are left vacant despite the availability of white candidates. This is as racists and patriarchal as it gets.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?
April 12, 2013 at 15:31 pm

“Can’t think of any Afrikaans leader with more than a handful of followers who goes around singing songs about killing innocent black people.”

Me neither. But it doesn’t really matter, you can destroy an unwanted people by simply excluding them from employment opportunity.

“The paper claims, that according to the documents, the City of Tshwane is struggling to reach its transformation targets across all its sectors. At top management level, the municipality’s transformation target is to have 74.1 percent of its 24 available posts held by black people with the remaining 25.9 percent spread amongst the other racial demographics. Currently, black people hold 95.8 percent of the posts, with white women filling the rest of the posts.

“On senior management level, black people hold 395 posts, whites hold 224 posts, coloureds hold 23 posts and Indians 21. The municipality’s biggest problem, in terms of its employment profile, is that 84.1 percent of its unskilled positions are held by black men.”

Blacks, Coloureds, Indians – no mention of “Biracial” or “East-Asian” “races” in there. But I’m used they must be abundant on the UCT campus.

That is all very well Dmwangi; but how much do you know about the equally distinguished (and undeservedly obscure), “Slovenian school”?

As for your charge that PdV is a constitutional chauvinist, you plainly have not grasped the fact that he is committed only to the value of TRANSFORMATION, which I like to call the “Grundnorm” of our Constitution.

There is no ulterior purpose or hidden motive here – favourite nephew simply hopes that when their salary cheques bounce – as very nearly happened 2 months ago – ‘ladies’ being ‘ladies’ will not beat the crap outta him.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

“It has become increasingly apparent to me, and has been made devastatingly clear during the proceedings of the past week, that my understanding of the constitutional values… and duty of the commission, and even of basic rights such as those of human dignity and freedom of speech, is so far removed from the understanding of the majority of the commission that it is not possible for me to play an effective role on the commission.”

It has never been said more loudly or more clear. Isak Smuts, Azhar Cachalia, Geoff Budlender, Willem van der Linde, Torquil Paterson, Jeremy Gauntlett, and Clive Plasket.

Let this moment be known in history as the death of the “new South Africa” and the beginning of something really new. May God be with you all.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

“Mr Vavi is part of a bloc that has criticised the decision by the SACP to allowed Mr Nzimande to join the government, saying this weakened the party — traditionally an intellectual anchor of the overall alliance. The position of SACP secretary is generally a full-time role, meaning whoever is elected should not accept another job. Speaking immediately after Mr Vavi on Wednesday, Mr Nzimande hit back.

He said those who used Hani’s statement to “rubbish” SACP decisions were “vulgarising” his stance, and that Hani would have accepted a government job if a political decision had been taken to deploy him.”

He is the new Ancyl leader. As for cronin of the South African Capitalist Party, he must enjoy the handbook.

anton kleinschmidt

@ DMwangi…….take heart from the fact that, eventually, all other participants (including the author who never participates) will accept that you are in a class of your own in the context of nearly all of the debates taking place on this blog.

Maggs Naidu – Towards a DUTY-FREE Cabinet! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Fikile Majola “I agree with Manuel that the state is very weak and has failed to satisfy the poor majority’s needs. But he fails to explain the reasons… he (Manuel) championed the policies that emasculated the state and left it incoherent and incapacitated… Privatisation, outsourcing and public-private partnerships… proved disastrous for service delivery and exacerbated the problem of corruption in the public sector.”

BS. Me and dmwingi gets along like fire and ice. But I like the bloke, stand-up African man that.

Gwebecimele

Let us hope one day we will someone senior who will resign due to the unfair treatment of the poor or lack of transformation. I have no sympathy for someone who resign on behalf of white men.

Michael Osborne

@ Gwebe

“If you could, hypothetically, and all else being equal, choose whether to be tried by a serious crimes by a judge of my tender age, or by a judge in her mid 60′s, which would you pick? Am I just ageist in my assumption that, ceteris paribus, the older judge would be more likely to have that ill-defined virtue that people call “wisdom”?

Michael Osborne

“tried by” = “tried for”

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Gwebecimele
April 13, 2013 at 10:37 am

“Let us hope one day we will someone senior who will resign due to the unfair treatment of the poor or lack of transformation. I have no sympathy for someone who resign on behalf of white men.”

It is clear enough. White men must just FOAD. And if you have a son who wants to study law it is clear enough that if you can afford you must encourage him to emigrate.

But don’t push you luck too far my boet, what goes around comes around and God doesn’t see any human being as just another Black Man, White Man, Women or Gay.

Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

@ Ozoneblue

@ “if you have a son who wants to study law it is clear enough that if you can afford you must encourage him to emigrate.”

With respect, you are right. Same would go for a daughter. She should go to a country where people suffering from whitish tendencies are UNDER-REPRESENTED in the legal system.

But on another note: Will you join me and other militant International Socialists tomorrow afternoon demonstrating at the US embassy against the AGGRESSION that the IMPERIALISTS are formenting against the Democratic Republic of Korea?

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
April 13, 2013 at 14:48 pm

Sorry mfd I feel no solidarity with the likes of you. “Militant International Socialists” are by definition not RACISTS.

“At first glance, many progressive people are drawn to this kind of legislated parity, as they recognize the gross lack of women and visible minorities in their mass organizations and honestly seek a solution without necessarily understanding the roots of the problem. If we want to do away with inequality in society however, we do need to have a clear understanding of where it comes from and why it exists. There are no shortcuts or band-aid solutions to the numerous and often overwhelming problems of this capitalist world. As is generally the case, this bureaucratic attempt to impose an artificial solution will do more harm than good. ”

Zille and most DA/ANC/Solidarity/FW De Foundation/Helen Suzman Foundation/SAIRR/FF+/AWB etc. would much, much rather have Affirmative Action as a band-aid to plaster over the deeply embedded structural economic equality than dealing with the real problem. Check posts of Brett and Mike for example, in essence the Swart gevaar is only seen as a proxy to the Rooi Gevaar (the real enemy) and that is why Apartheid products like PdV can call themselves “Constitutional Expert”.

You treat the gaping wounds first, then you treat the minor scratches with band-aid, if at all necessary.

joeslis

@ Ozoneblue

“If you have a son who wants to study law it is clear enough that if you can afford you must encourage him to emigrate”

Great idea! I believe there are any number of countries out there suffering a severe shortage of lawyers.

Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

Maggs, with respect, this is nonsense. The DA would not restore apartheid. What it would do is restore CAPITALISM, make the rich richer, and allow widespread POLICE BRUTALITY!

Thanks.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

joeslis
April 13, 2013 at 15:46 pm

“But I get really cross when I see white men, who have every right to be in this country, treated as unwanted second-class citizens.”

That must surely be unconstitutional?

“We, the people of South Africa,

Recognise the injustices of our past;
Honour those who suffered for justice and freedom in our land;
Respect those who have worked to build and develop our country; and
Believe that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, united in our diversity. ”

But all those racist White men *who have worked to build and develop our country* are universally hated and now to be treated like shit?

Maggs Naidu – Towards a DUTY-FREE Cabinet! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
April 13, 2013 at 16:05 pm

Dworky,

“The DA would not restore apartheid.”

I dunno about that.

I heard that Apartheid Education was better than what the ANC is offering.

And the infrastructure was spectacular too.

What about health eh?

Crime?

Admittedly apartheid was a crime against humanity and it was un-Christian – but those are no longer relevant.

p.s. Dmwangi will be declared an illegal immigrant and deported – that alone will be a reason to bring back apartheid under a DA government.

Now WDYS?

Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

Maggs, you are NAIVE if you think our people will allow “Madam” Zille to bring back apartheid. Now that’s all I have to say about it!

Thanks.

Maggs Naidu – Towards a DUTY-FREE Cabinet! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
April 13, 2013 at 17:32 pm

No Dworky – you’re not gonna get away that easily.

“Now that’s all I have to say about it!”

According to Cardinal Napier even Christianity is un-Christian.

Will Helen Zille re-introduce SLAVERY?

“With the same-sex marriages, we are carrying out someone else’s agenda,” he said.

“It’s a new kind of slavery, with America saying you won’t get aid unless you distribute condoms, legalise homosexuality.”

Maggs, although I respectfully disagree with much of what His Holiness Cardinal Napier says, I applaud him for “naming and shaming” arch-imperialist AMERICA as the source of the GAY MAFIA penetration of Africa. Did you know that until as recently as 1973, no-one in Africa knew anyone that was homosexual?

Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

Brett, that reminds me: What exactly did you mean when you said that apartheid was UN-CHRISTIAN?

Thanks very much.

Maggs Naidu – Towards a DUTY-FREE Cabinet! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
April 13, 2013 at 19:02 pm

Well Dworky

As Dmwangi taught us, homosexuality was invented among African people by the WHITE MAN.

Also that no real African person can be gay – just as Cardinal Napier points out (sort of).

Homosexuality, just like apartheid, is un-Christian.

But as I pointed out elsewhere to the dear Cardinal, the media are just selectively quoting the Cardinal to make him look like an idiot!

Really now, who with even half a brain will say such nonsense (excluding Ozone Boy and Dmwangi of course).

Our values of humility and mercy mean we try to do unto others as we would have others do unto us if we were in their shoes.
Our values of justice and mercy mean we do Christian charity to those less fortunate. We have to try be nice to people we are say in ‘a discussion’ with instead of kicking them to the curb because they are shmendriks.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?
April 13, 2013 at 21:59 pm

Springer also belies that it is ok to kill babies until 24 months or so and that it is totally irrational and unscientific for humans to believe that humans sex with animals is taboo. We are all animals after all.

“Nietzsche’s argument is illustrated in considering two of the central principles of Western civilization: “All men are created equal” and “Human life is precious.” Nietzsche attributes both ideas to Christianity. It is because we are created equal and in the image of God that our lives have moral worth and that we share the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Nietzsche’s warning was that none of these values make sense without the background moral framework against which they were formulated. A post-Christian West, he argued, must go back to the ethical drawing board and reconsider its most cherished values, which include its traditional belief in the equal dignity of every human life.”

By the way I do have sympathy for white kids and women. White men as a group think they have a God given right to run every aspect of our lives. They manipulate our justice system and the constitutional democracy.

Even madame Zille is strggling to manage them inside the DA. The do bread price fixing and manipulate construction tenders but see themselves above us as citizens. Unlike the Malemas they don’t go to court for the same offences.

Maggs you are welcome to move to Uganda, or Zimbabwe or CAR or the “Democratic Republic of Congo”, or to Guptania if it is so bad here in former White South Africa.

But as long as Brett and I are here, we are still alive, we will fight for our rights and what our forefathers have achieved in line with the spirit of the Freedom Charter and our Constitution. Another thing that you must learn from our history, besides waht we have contributed to the development of Africa is that White men can fight – so if you and Gwebs and Andile Mngnxitama prefer to do things that way I say BRING IT ON.

And that is the value system I also instil in my kids.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

correction.

“Singer also belies that it is ok to kill babies until 24 months or so and that it is totally irrational and unscientific for humans to believe that humans sex with animals is taboo. We are all animals after all.”

“Maggs you are welcome to move to Uganda, or Zimbabwe or CAR or the “Democratic Republic of Congo”, or to Guptania if it is so bad here in former White South Africa.”

Make up your mind – you want me to come back from India (where you promptly dispatched me to last year) to live with 1.398 billion other coolies, only to send me to all the other countries?

Anyway, it’s actually very good here in South Africa now that the WHITE man is no longer in charge.

Re : “White men can fight” – I dunno about that. Maybe in Potch where six WHITE men killed one “terrorist” looking guy. I’m thinking when all is equal the outcomes are rather different; like when Dingaan said “Come in peace and leave your guns outside” – well shit happened, ne.

WHITE men can only “fight” at rugby matches when they outnumber the single guy they are fighting with. And some homeless guy in the park. Or an unarmed, defenceless woman who went to the toilet.

Square it up, say in heavy weight boxing with Muhammed Alli – check the outcome. Splat, splash, pow – and the WHITE man is eating canvas – they even ask for tomato sauce and mustard while at it.

WDYSTT, eh?

p.s. The only WHITE man who can beat up 13 Black guys in the centre of Johannesburg is Brett – and he does that while eating a burger, talking on the phone, clipping his toe nails and training his dogs.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

So if the ANC wants to re-engineer South Africa according to the multiracial logic of racial demographics lets state with the racial “demographics” in ANC nomination and candidates.

“The British Columbia New Democratic Party in Canada recently voted at its November convention to introduce a new affirmative action policy for candidate nominations. The new rules stipulate that women candidates must be nominated in at least 30% of constituencies where seats are not currently held by the NDP, while at least 5 candidates must come from “under-represented groups such as visible minorities, youth or the disabled” (Vancouver Sun, Nov 17, 2007). They also stipulate that any seat vacated by a retiring MLA (Member of the Legislative Assembly) must be filled by a woman.”

“Anyway, it’s actually very good here in South Africa now that the WHITE man is no longer in charge.”

Really? That is interesting.

I thought you and Andile and Gwebs and ANC are still insisting/pretending that White men are still in charge. If they are not in charge any more why do you keep on blaming them for everything that is wrong and feel the obsession to vilify and discriminate against them.

What are you trying to hide. Your own incompetence, the serial and systematic failure of just about every other African state North of our borders now to be replicated here in South Africa?

I’m sorry. A few token Whites/Coloureds/Indians in the top structures are not good enough. The ANC is not the DA I assume, where is the meaningful racial demographic representation in the NEC and grass root structures?

When it comes to Employment Equity the mutiracial logic mandates ALL levels.

“Having failed to convince the garrison of the hopelessness of their situation, Aylward now diverted all his energy to the digging of a 182 foot long trench towards the fort. Trees at Krugerspost were cut down to construct a shelter for the Boers as they dug the trench, so that they would not be exposed to fire from the fort. This project was by no means plain sailing and Aylward soon came up against Boer prejudice. Joubert had foreseen that the Boers would not take kindly to a plan that entailed so much manual labour. It was all very well for British soldiers to erect shelters and dig trenches but the Boers regarded this as work for prisoners.”

Maggs Naidu – Towards a DUTY-FREE Cabinet! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?
April 14, 2013 at 11:12 am

So Brett,

WHITE men can dig trenches, ne!

If you and OB have some spare time, I need a few dug trenches around my house.

DMwangi can fill it up again.

WDYS?

Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

@ Maggs

“The only WHITE man who can beat up 13 Black guys in the centre of Johannesburg is Brett – and he does that while eating a burger, talking on the phone, clipping his toe nails and training his dogs.”

Maggs, with respect, you left out the fact that, at the time of his mortal combat, Brett also had a PIGEON in the air, en route from Kroontad – which he was actively tracking on his “smartphone.” WDYS?

Thanks

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

Yep. White people are good at multi-tasking.

http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

@maggs

I’m still waiting for your comment. If you/gwebs/White liberals want AA in all of society then why not start with the ANC leadership?

“The British Columbia New Democratic Party in Canada recently voted at its November convention to introduce a new affirmative action policy for candidate nominations”

Maggs Naidu – Towards a DUTY-FREE Cabinet! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Ozoneblue
April 14, 2013 at 11:51 am

OB,

I am no longer interested in the ANC’s racism.

I have decided to start my own political party.

Da-gang – I stole policy ideas from DA and Agang.

Da gang has a nice ring to it. Rappers already want to use it in their so-called songs. “Da gang of WHITE people stole the land …”

Will you join – mainly donate generously.

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

Ozoneblue says:
April 14, 2013 at 10:26 am

Three white Durbanites murdered in one week?

They must be a bunch of pussies who can only take on single victims As a gang. Maggs might be right there.

Maggs Naidu – Towards a DUTY-FREE Cabinet! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?
April 14, 2013 at 11:49 am

Brett,

“White people are good at multi-tasking.”

You mean like being “nice” to Black people, while stealing their land?

I saw a WHITE guy recently who was multi-tasking – reading the newspaper while drinking coffee.

That’s assuming that he was reading – he looked pretty stupid.

WDYSTT?

Gwebecimele

A speeding white men is in the news tonight for refusing to be arrested. Apparently he is a snr cop.

Zoo Keeper says:-
| Either you have private property or you do not – no private property is
|what keeps poor people poor. How fucking difficult is that to understand?
|
That’s not a sound deduction. It’s just a slogan. Even though it IS correct.
That socialism inevitably fails is much moere difficult to understand than
how a WC cistern works. Although Willis’ argument that “removing enterpreneurs’
incentive will only make retal accomodation more expensive” needs only
understanding of supply-and-demand-equilibrium, which apparently PdV doesn’t
understand. I have to cringe when PdV goes off on his disasterous socio-
economic analysis. It’s almost like Zuma’s embarassing ‘appearances’.

| Some people just cannot learn from other’s mistakes.
That’s call INDUCTION. If you understand the mechanism, you don’t
consider “other’s mistakes” any more than you consider fairies.

I claim in depth knowledge of the ‘Thatcher affair’.
IMO, due to the excesses of the Nazis and that Russia won the war, there
was a massive swing towards socialism after WWII. By the 70’s UK had become
like Zim took a decade, and new-SA has become. Luckily Thatcher came along
and saved the situation.

Maggs Naidu says:-
| Yacoob said he was “quite sure” that the JSC should have guidelines
| which they should apply with “discipline and care”.
|
That’s a meta-constitution. So yes, if it’s good for CC to have written
guidelines, why not also for JSC.

But it’s not democratic becos’ only the AMAklevakleva can read & write?
WE don’t want a Rhodesian qualified franchise?

Unlike the provisions of the Constitution stating minimal qualifications for the President, Vice President and members of the Congress, the Constitution does not state any qualifications needed to become a Supreme Court justice. Nor does it state how many there can, or must, be. Article III (Authority of the Judicial Branch), Section 1 provides only that:

The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

No qualifications based on age, experience, education, citizenship or anything else for Supreme Court justices are stated, so the President could constitutionally nominate any, and however many, justices he might wish; or he could decline to nominate replacements for justices who die or retire. Under a “strict” reading of Article III, the president could nominate and the Senate could confirm anyone, for example, el Presidente Hugo Chávez of Venezuela, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini of Iran (although both might have difficulty obtaining visas to enter the United States), an illiterate ninety-five year old peasant from Afghanistan or a new young son named Trayvon. For that matter, he could nominate the entire population of Washington, D.C. Nominations of this sort would, of course, be “unprecedented;” actually unprecedented and not in the dubious sense that President Obama used the word. One hopes that such nominations might have substantial difficulty in being approved by the Senate, even by one under the control of President Obama’s party.”