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"Syd Barrett Mode" To go for a complete Acid burn-out by putting one under each eye-lid and several underneath a head band while jogging on the spot,then,frying your brains to the extent where you forget how to speak and stay at home in your bedroom for the rest of your life, alone.

Imagine how history would be different if he did not fry his brains. Sure, David Gilmore is good, but how would Pink Floyd had been with the real genius in charge instead of the remaining band members clammoring for the helm?

So, exactly how did he fry his brains? Yes, children, drugs can actually be harmful. Now, let that be a lesson.

From what scientists have actually determined (as opposed to what certain people wish they had determined), LSD can't make you crazy. However, if you already have schizophrenia, it probably isn't going to make things better.

From what scientists have actually determined (as opposed to what certain people wish they had determined), LSD can't make you crazy. However, if you already have schizophrenia, it probably isn't going to make things better.

Yeah, that is what I have been digging up now.

"No-one now doubts that what was dismissed in the Sixties as just another case of LSD abuse was more likely to have been schizophrenia, Asperger's Syndrome or another type of autism, aggravated by the drugs."

THe story of Syd shaving his head and going into the studio is sad to me not because of the drugs but I think he was trying to get attention. Him doing that act where he jumps up and down and holds a toothbrush still was a very Asperger-like act of someone trying to connect to people. That is what I think is more heart-breaking than the claim by Gilmore that Syd had fried his brain.

But, at the same time (to go back to the LDS overdose issue), I knew a guy in the Navy who had flash-backs and had to be taken to a hospital when I was in basic training. He did not want to every talk about what he saw or how bad it was. He was worried it would disqualify him for a job and he would be booted out of the military. He wasn't.

Now, on the other hand, are you saying that you cannot overdose on LSD? That goes against a lot of folklore I have heard. It also goes against an interview with The Grateful Dead where they said that they had lost a lot by using LSD and that there was a definite "trade off" and they had "lost something". That seemed to imply that they could not concentrate like before. THat was how it seemed to me when I saw the interview. That seems like it would be the case. I mean, you must be doing SOMETHING wierd to your brain.

Is this a time to call in MythBusters? Just imagine what that show would be like!!

__________________The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
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"Syd Barrett Mode" To go for a complete Acid burn-out by putting one under each eye-lid and several underneath a head band while jogging on the spot,then,frying your brains to the extent where you forget how to speak and stay at home in your bedroom for the rest of your life, alone.

Imagine how history would be different if he did not fry his brains. Sure, David Gilmore is good, but how would Pink Floyd had been with the real genius in charge instead of the remaining band members clammoring for the helm?

So, exactly how did he fry his brains? Yes, children, drugs can actually be harmful. Now, let that be a lesson.

(queue "shine on you crazy diamond" and fade to black)

Did he "fry his brains"?

Or is it as his sister said that he did not suffer from as serious a mental disturbance as all of Syd's romantic fans say. Especially if he suffered from schizophrenia which shows more in adolescence and young adulthood even with the LSD Syd very well could have been living a simple and mild life pursuing interests other than music. It's not a mystery that Syd had other interests, such as his art, beyond music.

To say that Syd fried his brains is quite frankly a display of ignorance.

Imagine how history would be different if he did not fry his brains. Sure, David Gilmore is good, but how would Pink Floyd had been with the real genius in charge instead of the remaining band members clammoring for the helm?

This is a bit of a logical fallacy. There's no doubt Pink Floyd would have been a very different band had Syd not been replaced so early in their career. But your statement implies they would somehow have been better. That is a presumption that is impossible to measure, and is based in large part on your personal feelings about their music. Personally, I am a huge fan of the music created by Pink Floyd from the album Meddle to The Final Cut. To think that the most successful rock album of all time (Dark Side of the Moon) might not exist today can hardly qualify as being "better", in my humble opinion.

Now, on the other hand, are you saying that you cannot overdose on LSD? That goes against a lot of folklore I have heard. It also goes against an interview with The Grateful Dead where they said that they had lost a lot by using LSD and that there was a definite "trade off" and they had "lost something". That seemed to imply that they could not concentrate like before. THat was how it seemed to me when I saw the interview. That seems like it would be the case. I mean, you must be doing SOMETHING wierd to your brain.

Is this a time to call in MythBusters? Just imagine what that show would be like!!

That's actually two questions: Can you overdose on LSD? And does LSD have any long-term effects?

According to Erowid, a lethal dose is 12,000 micrograms. A "common" dose is 50-150 micrograms. So, an overdose is 240 to 80 times an ordinary dose. The cases of LSD overdose are very rare.

As for long-term effects, I think the jury is still out on that one, although there is a phenomenon known as HPPD (Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder), an apparently rare condition that is not fully understood, and may be caused by factors other than hallucinogen usage. The fear factor behind phenomena like HPPD and "flashbacks" has been blown out of proportion by prohibitionists. You're more likely to get brain damaged from a shot of whiskey.

I think it would be fair to say that Syd was susceptible to mind altering drugs and that a pretty heavy use of LSD did affect him especially badly. He was replaced because he had reached non-functioning point. In that respect he did, through prolonged LSD use, fry his brains during that period. It seemed to exacerbate an existing pre-disposition to mental ill health. However, this particularly disturbed period was short lived and he was not this ill for the whole of the remainder of his life.

He returned to his home town. He worked sporadically on various projects. The band released a number of best of's and ensured that royalties continued to come in. In the early 70s Gilmore produced his solo albums. These are eccentric offerings but have some gems on them and still find audiences even now. I am fairly certain that his sister said that he pretty much put all of it behind him, stopped using the nickname Syd and lived a very quiet life, dying of an unrelated illness.

I think it is fair to say that it was the LSD that caused what appeared to be some sort of breakdown and he may well have continued working if he had not taken it (or at least anything like the quantity he is reputed to have consumed). The strains of Floyd being a super-group and the competing egos may well have tipped him over the edge later though. It certainly tested the emotions of the rest of the band.

I saw them in the 80s sans Waters. I had an opportunity in the late 70s to see The Wall and didn't take it

Well, as a psychology graduate, and a fan of Pink Floyd during the period Gr8wight mentioned - Sid seemed to have some personal demons of his own that might have rendered him comatose without the use of LSD. He did straddle the divide between "Mental" and "Genius" for a while in the mid- to late-60's, before the drugs tipped the balance. Having read a few biographies of that era, I don't think he had the mental armour to continue unscathed.

Where did you hear this? This is something new. Did he cut open his skull and cut out part of his brain?

You see, you do actually cook your brain when you abuse drugs. Well, ok, maybe not cook them, but you still kill the brain cells. Still, since it is you who are doing it to yourself, you can think of it as frying it like you are standing over a stove.

My brother told me of an autopsy he heard of locally done on a well-known abuser of drugs. Whn when they opened up a body's skull the room was filled with the smell or poo. But this is hear-say and because of this may or may not be true.

This is a bit of a logical fallacy. There's no doubt Pink Floyd would have been a very different band had Syd not been replaced so early in their career. But your statement implies they would somehow have been better. That is a presumption that is impossible to measure, and is based in large part on your personal feelings about their music. Personally, I am a huge fan of the music created by Pink Floyd from the album Meddle to The Final Cut. To think that the most successful rock album of all time (Dark Side of the Moon) might not exist today can hardly qualify as being "better", in my humble opinion.

But there have been people who have taken LSD trips into other dimensions where the band is much bigger and cult-like and responsible for diverting several world conflicts. Since other universes are possible, who are we to doubt the conduit that drug abuse can bring?

On the other hand, I think you might be right. David Gilmore has a lot of talent and some of the earlier music I find hard to appreciate.

LSD affects people differently (like alcohol). I've had friends who tripped and said it was great, a couple of others had serious problems from a single trip. As with the latest research on dope there are a lot of variables. Maybe Syd was just unlucky.

Would Floyd have been different? Sure. No "Crazy Diamond" for a start.

I have nothing to add except that this thread confused the heck out of me until I realized Syd Barrett =! Sid Vicious.

Don't know what I must be on to make that kind of mistake.

__________________As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of resolving approaches zero. -Vaarsuvius
It's a rum state of affairs when you feel like punching a jar of mayonnaise in the face. -Charlie Brooker

As far as i have read LSD have been used by psyciatrists in treating certain patients because during a trip you can recall otherwise forgotten incidents. Doing that alone, without professional help is VERY dangerous and undoubtedly it contributed to Syd's demise and his later very lonely life. Syd lived together with some other "acid-heads" and apparently their #1 partytrick was to get unsuspecting people on LSD. According to Nick Mason those who knew NEVER drank or ate anything when visiting that house except for tap-water, and ONLY if they poured it themselves.

Personally i am glad that Syd left, not the circumstances though but the Pink Floyd that came afterwards was VERY much better than the Syd-era Floyd and my prediction is that had he not gone "bonkers", Pink Floyd would only have been a small footnote in rock history. Obscure and only remembered by a small loyal fan-base.

As far as i have read LSD have been used by psyciatrists in treating certain patients because during a trip you can recall otherwise forgotten incidents. Doing that alone, without professional help is VERY dangerous and undoubtedly it contributed to Syd's demise and his later very lonely life. Syd lived together with some other "acid-heads" and apparently their #1 partytrick was to get unsuspecting people on LSD. According to Nick Mason those who knew NEVER drank or ate anything when visiting that house except for tap-water, and ONLY if they poured it themselves.

Personally i am glad that Syd left, not the circumstances though but the Pink Floyd that came afterwards was VERY much better than the Syd-era Floyd and my prediction is that had he not gone "bonkers", Pink Floyd would only have been a small footnote in rock history. Obscure and only remembered by a small loyal fan-base.

This is very true, according to most accounts, Syd was spiked a great deal of the time. The broadcaster and author Jonathan Meades recalls visiting Syd's flat one time which he shared with several others, and commenting on the lousy plumbing based on the strange noises coming from the airing cupboard. He was told to pay no attention, it was just Syd shut in there on another bad trip. Thing is, it wasn't just the acid - add to that the stp, mandrax, the mushrooms, the weed, the mescaline, the uppers and downers and the mild opiates - combine with a latent psychosis, and you have the recipe for a instant 'vegetable man'.

Technically, and pedant that I am, Syd didn't actually leave. Gilmore had already joined after the disasterous US jaunt, and en route to a gig one evening they simply decided it would be easier not to pick him up. They never went back.

That's actually two questions: Can you overdose on LSD? And does LSD have any long-term effects?

According to Erowid, a lethal dose is 12,000 micrograms. A "common" dose is 50-150 micrograms. So, an overdose is 240 to 80 times an ordinary dose. The cases of LSD overdose are very rare.

As for long-term effects, I think the jury is still out on that one, although there is a phenomenon known as HPPD (Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder), an apparently rare condition that is not fully understood, and may be caused by factors other than hallucinogen usage. The fear factor behind phenomena like HPPD and "flashbacks" has been blown out of proportion by prohibitionists. You're more likely to get brain damaged from a shot of whiskey.

Ya I think the problem is that "overdose" has become a term we use to describe a "bad trip" - but really, one is a clinical term, and the other is a subjective evaluation of a drug experience.

So I would expect that all LSD "overdoses" are "bad trips".

Read a story about ER visits from pot users and you're going to be treated to the same conflation of terms: the "therapeutic ratio" for pot still hasn't been found (to my knowledge), I cam across one guess that you'd have to smoke a football field of it to truly "OD", but that you'd have smoke inhalation issues far before that point. Not to mention pot has a built in "i'm good now" break to it that other substances don't have, probably because the act of smoking it affects you much quicker than metabolizing alcohol (for example). In any event, I've seen "pot overdoses" applied to scenarios where kids get paranoid and go to the ER.

Geez. I don't even know how that could even happen, but I guess maybe the scaremongering is behind some of it. Especially with drugs, peoples expectations guide the trip.

__________________“ it has become my conviction that things mean pretty much what we want them to mean. We’ll pluck significance from the least consequential happenstance if it suits us and happily ignore the most flagrantly obvious symmetry between separate aspects of our lives if it threatens some cherished prejudice or cosily comforting belief"
-Iain Banks

LSD affects people differently (like alcohol). I've had friends who tripped and said it was great, a couple of others had serious problems from a single trip. As with the latest research on dope there are a lot of variables. Maybe Syd was just unlucky.

I've always been completely "secure" and confident taking LSD. In my younger days I was definitely the "shepherd", guiding errant friends back to calm once they might start getting a bit nervous.

What I did find though, was the more conflicted individuals, the ones with pre-existing socialization/emotional issues - they were more likely to have a "bad trip" than the well-adjusted. If the demons are only held at bay by a thin barrier, taking LSD is likely to set them loose.

I am also unsure about this "flashback" phenomena, and am wondering if it is a psychological thing wherein users expect to have future flashbacks and then have them, rather than a biological factor (ie, remnants of the drug somehow becoming active years later).

I've never had one - though I remember in my teenage years trying to convince myself I had one a few times. In hindsight I was kind of "looking" for a flashback.

__________________“ it has become my conviction that things mean pretty much what we want them to mean. We’ll pluck significance from the least consequential happenstance if it suits us and happily ignore the most flagrantly obvious symmetry between separate aspects of our lives if it threatens some cherished prejudice or cosily comforting belief"
-Iain Banks

I've always thought that LSD "flashbacks" are an urban myth. I've never had one, never met a single person who's ever had one, or who has met anyone who's ever had one, and none of the rock stars / prominent druggies from the late 60s have ever mentioned anything of the sort.

What LSD can do, occasionally, is create an unpleasant state of derealisation that lingers for quite some time after a trip (especially a bad trip). I'd imagine it would take some pretty relentless battering to turn someone into a full-blown "acid casualty" who "never comes back", and of course, a predisposition to severe mental issues might well be a factor there (which is the ongoing debate re. Syd Barrett, of course - did the acid push him over the edge or just speed him on his way?). I have, however, met a number of people who - like me - had at least one rather peculiar experience on LSD and were definitely not the same for some months afterwards. General paranoia and extreme depersonalisation, which gradually fade until you're more or less back to normal, except rather less interested in taking LSD in the future. It's not brain damage, but it's pretty horrible while it lasts.

Anyway, in that state there are occasional moments of heightened freakiness - basically panic attacks - where everything gets on top of you, and it feels almost like you're back on the acid. You can lose your sense of self and freak out for a minute or two. I reckon that these form the kernel of truth in the urban myth of LSD "flashbacks". Panic attacks during a post-acid period of derealisation and high anxiety. Which is not the same thing at all as the legend of people, 10 years after their one LSD experience, suddenly seeing demons flying out of the television, etc.

__________________Many of the medical profession are sceptical about my work. They point to my record of treatment of athlete's foot sufferers - 84 dead, 65 severely wounded, and 12 missing believed cured. But then, people laughed at Bob Hope. People laughed at my wife when she wrapped herself up in greaseproof paper and hopped into the Social Security office - but that doesn't mean that Pasteur was wrong.

I actually looked up the erowid stuff on flashbacks after posting - seems some people describe it as a form of PTSD, and from what you were saying Kiosk that sounds like you would fit into that description.

Anyway, erowid's got some interesting info on that.

__________________“ it has become my conviction that things mean pretty much what we want them to mean. We’ll pluck significance from the least consequential happenstance if it suits us and happily ignore the most flagrantly obvious symmetry between separate aspects of our lives if it threatens some cherished prejudice or cosily comforting belief"
-Iain Banks

I've used a lot of acid, often mixed with other drugs and I don't think it's had any negative effect on me, hell I've never even had a bad trip. But I have seen people freak out and not be the same for months afterwards. If you have a mental or emotional issues, using LSD is definitely not a good idea.

I often see tracers and sometimes if I stare at the carpet or the wall or something, I see it moving around a little sort of like I'm on acid but not nearly as intense. But I don't think that could really be called a flashback, especially since I don't feel any different. I'm sure this is all in my head and not the drug still affecting me. Which sorts of brings us to another LSD myth: that it will stay in your spinal cord forever. This is BS, it is out of your system faster than pretty much any drug, about a day.

I've used a lot of acid, often mixed with other drugs and I don't think it's had any negative effect on me,
[snip]
I often see tracers and sometimes if I stare at the carpet or the wall or something, I see it moving around a little sort of like I'm on acid but not nearly as intense.

It's not too often you see someone pos contain evidence against their own claim.

__________________What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC.
"Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

I often see tracers and sometimes if I stare at the carpet or the wall or something, I see it moving around a little sort of like I'm on acid but not nearly as intense. But I don't think that could really be called a flashback, especially since I don't feel any different. I'm sure this is all in my head and not the drug still affecting me.

Anybody can see tracers, or moving things in the wall/carpet. It has nothing to do with drugs. I've always been able to do this, ever since I was a little kid. (Yes, I got bored a lot!)

All you have to do is stare long enough, and unfocus your eyes a little bit. Of course, the texture or pattern on your wall or carpet helps, too. (You get pretty good results from stucco.)

It's not really much different from finding pictures in clouds. Mildly interesting, but nothing like a "trip". You can't really get high from waving your hands in front of your face, or staring at a wall, unfortunately. If the pictures you see in the walls rival the definition on your TV, however, you might have a cause for concern!

"Syd Barrett Mode" To go for a complete Acid burn-out by putting one under each eye-lid and several underneath a head band while jogging on the spot,then,frying your brains to the extent where you forget how to speak and stay at home in your bedroom for the rest of your life, alone.

Imagine how history would be different if he did not fry his brains. Sure, David Gilmore is good, but how would Pink Floyd had been with the real genius in charge instead of the remaining band members clammoring for the helm?

So, exactly how did he fry his brains? Yes, children, drugs can actually be harmful. Now, let that be a lesson.

Now, on the other hand, are you saying that you cannot overdose on LSD? That goes against a lot of folklore I have heard. It also goes against an interview with The Grateful Dead where they said that they had lost a lot by using LSD and that there was a definite "trade off" and they had "lost something". That seemed to imply that they could not concentrate like before. THat was how it seemed to me when I saw the interview. That seems like it would be the case. I mean, you must be doing SOMETHING wierd to your brain.

Is this a time to call in MythBusters? Just imagine what that show would be like!!

I imagine it is chemically possible to overdose on LSD, just as it is with marijuana. However, like marijuana, the amount you'd need to take is too absurd for the ways in which people commonly do. Unless you're using them intravenously, you just can't.
Of course, if you choose to interpret "overdose" as an extreme but non-fatal reaction, then anything is possible.
People have used LSD just once, just a small amount, and have never been the same since. Other people have used LSD heavily and were just fine after. I think it's foolish to think that LSD is the only factor there.
As for the statements by The Grateful Dead, they seemed to conveniently ignore all the OTHER drugs that they did in addition to LSD and pot. It's hard to say if LSD had a negative affect on someone who also did cocaine, heroin, mescaline, barbituates, speed, etc.

Anybody can see tracers, or moving things in the wall/carpet. It has nothing to do with drugs. I've always been able to do this, ever since I was a little kid. (Yes, I got bored a lot!)

All you have to do is stare long enough, and unfocus your eyes a little bit. Of course, the texture or pattern on your wall or carpet helps, too. (You get pretty good results from stucco.)

It's not really much different from finding pictures in clouds. Mildly interesting, but nothing like a "trip". You can't really get high from waving your hands in front of your face, or staring at a wall, unfortunately. If the pictures you see in the walls rival the definition on your TV, however, you might have a cause for concern!

This!

Since I was a kid I have been able to see walls "breathing", or wacky patterns emerge and "dance" about in carpets, or a gravel driveway. You just need to defocus the eyes as you said and stare for 15 seconds or so.