Welcome

Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and
others concerned about HIV/AIDS. Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the
conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning: Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive
and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a
username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own
physician.

All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators
of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please
provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are
true and correct to their knowledge.

I had the airport body scan a couple of weeks ago. Big deal. Let's say the scanner shows me completely naked, which it doesn't. I just don't care. There is no evidence I have seen indicating it is unsafe and it is not much more of an inconvenience than going through a metal detector. If security personnel are groping people that is a different story.

I think this is all quite simple. If you don't want a full body scan or a pat down -- don't fly. I fly quite a bit and, quite frankly, I'd rather have them being thorough. If some guy or gal in another room is getting his/her jollies from looking at a scanned image of my cock -- so be it. Until there is a better way, deal with it or choose another mode of transport.

This was a set up, he knew what was about to happen and wanted it to, otherwise there would be no recording of his speaking about his "junk" -- and I bet this guy would be howling at the bad job TSA did, if a plane does blow up in mid-air.

Watching some television footage of this process, whether pat down, or scan, I think everyone's doing THEIR JOB as respectfully as they can. Imagine doing this job. Looking at photographic junk crevices, crevasses, etc. and envision that after a while whatever jolly factor MIGHT have been there wouldn't be soon after the novelty wears off. Looking for plastic explosives and other items requires a bit of focus. I'm with Bocker, scan me, touch me, just get me on the plane on time and get the plane to where it's headed, period.

Hmm I suppose I'm the only one on the other side of the issue eh? I also fully support profiling as incendiary as I know that comment will be they're attempting to stop foreign terrorism which isn't being plotted by grandma from Indiana.

As for the detail of the images Ford http://optoutday.com/ (NOT SAFE FOR WORK) you can see that they are actually quite detailed to the point that an observer can tell if a man is circumcised or not. I just have to wonder why they felt they needed this extra layer of security. Why not just strip search everyone if you're not worried about the indignity of being subjected to all of this. Throw in a cavity search while we're at it. I mean I would think a truly clever terrorist would just hide the bomb in their butts. This has the added advantage of bomb sniffing dogs being thrown off.

The guy who Anderson Cooper profiled said "You touch my junk, I'm calling the police." To which the security responded by lecturing him he could get his grope or not fly. And, to boot, Cooper researched it further and it seems if you refuse the grope, you will have to be groped ANYWAY in order to get out of security. hehehe

Logged

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

The guy who Anderson Cooper profiled said "You touch my junk, I'm calling the police." To which the security responded by lecturing him he could get his grope or not fly. And, to boot, Cooper researched it further and it seems if you refuse the grope, you will have to be groped ANYWAY in order to get out of security. hehehe

This feels like some sort of weird unnecessary power trip, of course I have a major problem with authority figures.

Hmm I suppose I'm the only one on the other side of the issue eh? I also fully support profiling as incendiary as I know that comment will be they're attempting to stop foreign terrorism which isn't being plotted by grandma from Indiana.

As for the detail of the images Ford http://optoutday.com/ (NOT SAFE FOR WORK) you can see that they are actually quite detailed to the point that an observer can tell if a man is circumcised or not. I just have to wonder why they felt they needed this extra layer of security. Why not just strip search everyone if you're not worried about the indignity of being subjected to all of this.

Because a strip search takes too long. The photo looks like an alien, and not a sexy alien either. My grandma would have said "I don't have anything you haven't either got or seen before" and been scanned.

Hmm I suppose I'm the only one on the other side of the issue eh? I also fully support profiling as incendiary as I know that comment will be they're attempting to stop foreign terrorism which isn't being plotted by grandma from Indiana.

As for the detail of the images Ford http://optoutday.com/ (NOT SAFE FOR WORK) you can see that they are actually quite detailed to the point that an observer can tell if a man is circumcised or not. I just have to wonder why they felt they needed this extra layer of security. Why not just strip search everyone if you're not worried about the indignity of being subjected to all of this. Throw in a cavity search while we're at it. I mean I would think a truly clever terrorist would just hide the bomb in their butts. This has the added advantage of bomb sniffing dogs being thrown off.

Well, it's quite simple -- if you really don't want this scrutiny, you can avoid it by not flying. The person in front of you isn't seeing your scan -- and the person seeing your scan isn't actually seeing you.

Quite honestly I'm tired of the whole "Grandma from Indiana" argument. If you only screen "certain types", then they will find a way to recruit, trick or simply plant something on someone from the "harmless" group.

I get that people find this intrusive -- the good thing is that they don't need to have it done. However, you don't have the right to put the rest of at harm, or even to cause mass distrubtion to all other travelers simply to show yoru displeasure. Causing security gridlock on Thanksgiving is certainly not going to bring more folks on board with this line of reasoning.

i think it's all overkill, giving a win to the terrorists. Over the years the patrons at several McDonald's have been blown away, and there's no hue and cry over even metal detectors at McDs. So far no American planes have been blown out of the sky, yet everyone, even grandma from Indiana, is viewed as a terrorist first and a law-abiding citizen second.

Because a few semi-trained terrorist pilots took over planes, Americans are being forced into ever tighter security to fly in planes. This only sets the stage so the first car bombing will mean every car entering a city is searched first, or perhaps before being allowed into certains sections or on certain highways - like how it's done in Iraq where terrorism is truly an everyday event.

i think it's all overkill, giving a win to the terrorists. Over the years the patrons at several McDonald's have been blown away, and there's no hue and cry over even metal detectors at McDs. So far no American planes have been blown out of the sky, yet everyone, even grandma from Indiana, is viewed as a terrorist first and a law-abiding citizen second.

Because a few semi-trained terrorist pilots took over planes, Americans are being forced into ever tighter security to fly in planes. This only sets the stage so the first car bombing will mean every car entering a city is searched first, or perhaps before being allowed into certains sections or on certain highways - like how it's done in Iraq where terrorism is truly an everyday event.

So your solution is?? Let me guess... only screen the folks who "look like" a terrorist. Would you get on a plane if there was no security? I'd love to see something less intrusive, but this is what we got for now.

The bottom line is that NO ONE HAS TO GO THROUGH THIS -- if you don't want to, don't fly.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

So your solution is?? Let me guess... only screen the folks who "look like" a terrorist. Would you get on a plane if there was no security? I'd love to see something less intrusive, but this is what we got for now.

The bottom line is that NO ONE HAS TO GO THROUGH THIS -- if you don't want to, don't fly.

I'm with you, Bocker. Do whatever it takes to keep the plane in the air and get me there alive. I've been groped more on a subway than during an airport screening. Those who may have ridden a bus or subway in Mexico City when they attended AMG might also have a story to share. Last time I was there, I was hoping the guy behind me was wearing a condom. They really pack 'em into those things!

No security at all? Of course not. No security at all would be just foolish.But the regular upgraded security since 9/11? Sure

In the long run very few planes have been hijacked, blown up or used as weapons. If say 100 planes have been used in terroristic ways during the last 20 yrs are viewed against the millions of flights where nothing untoward has happened, the chance of boarding a plane that will be involved in a terroristic act is one of those 0.000001% risks. However there is a HUGE chance some idiot will smash his car into me tomorrow; but not so much of a chance that my plane will explode - even with the "inadequate" security over the last 20 years. Why I probably have as much chance of being in a McD's today with a crazed gunman than being on a plane today blown up by terrorists. (Actually, here in SC, I might have a greater chance of the running into the crazy man with a gun in a fast food joint. LOL)

so I have to wonder just why does security have to change from what it has been? I haven't seen any planes blowing up over America recently? (actually there haven't even been many airplanes destroyed from bombs on board in the first place) Doesn't that just prove that the previous 9 yrs of security measures have been doing just fine? This strikes me as just more fear-mongering. Personally, I think they could beef up security by improving (as recommended by the 9/11 commission) their "no fly" lists using intelligence, fully distributing these lists amongst the airlines, and enforcing these restriction lists. (a proper watch list fully distributed could have stopped the underwear and shoe bomber, along with even most of the 9/11 hijackers, from even being allowed on board their planes in the first place)

but of course, we're all allowed to have our disparate views on this - for now. Until such a time as a bomber is discovered that would have only been found through this scanner that could not have been found through intelligence or previous security measures, we'll never know if this is a waste of time and money or not.

...I waited a bit to post this to see the "Groping for Answers" segment on MSNBC's Countdown where Keith talked to the former Director of Security from El Al (Isaac Yeffet) who discussed how useless this kind of security measure (this full body scanner) is. He actually explains that it would be a better practice to hire human security personnel to interview/screen all the passengers before boarding than spend the money on technology.

this interesting article from usatoday, from right after 9/11/01, discusses how El Al uses profiling (and as Mr. Yeffet explained not profiling any ethnic group but profiling traits/characteristics) and other measures to stop terroristic activities regarding planes.

In the UK we have had airport security before 9/11 due a military active IRA. The attack on Glasgow airport , the London tube suicide bombers demonstrated that if people are determined and the intelligence is incomplete then a pat down is a, in my mind , small price to pay. El Al fights have always had longer check in time to complete their security.

Logged

"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ." Tony Benn

so I have to wonder just why does security have to change from what it has been? I haven't seen any planes blowing up over America recently? .

No, but you can bet your bippy "they" are trying...hence Shoe bomber and Crotch bomber. But the problem ultimately is not going to be a solvable one, it is merely a matter of time before a terrorist hides a bomb up the pooper. I believe they already did this in trying to assasinate a Saudi Prince. Im not sure any screening devices would be able to detect Poop chute bombs. But that is where screening/profiling protocols may be useful such as done by El Al (as you stated).

On a similiar note, what bothers me is the lack of security screening onAmtrak in the northeast corridor, especially into DC. Over the past few years I have taken the Amtrak from Virginia to DC several times, and sometimes into NY. Not once was there any screening of my person, nor have i ever seen a bomb sniffing dog (in spite of the widely publicized videos by homeland security of dogs on trains). Hell once I traveled into DC without even seeing a conductor, no one ever took my ticket.

My airplane trip down was, in a word, "flawless". The TSA workers were professional, courteous and very efficient. I went through what I believe was a regular metal detector. I did not have a full body scan or a pat down. One of the TSA guys even told me to have a nice trip. I smilled so wide that I am sure he saw the back row of my teeth.

Also, the flight down was smooth as silk. Since the plane was not full, the pilot said that if we wished, we could change to a more "desirable seat or seat partner". That got everyone giggling. And yes, one guy in my row moved next to his daugther and an Amazon replaced him.

I return home tomorrow and anticipate another good experience.

Now, back to you in the virtual studio.

Logged

"He is my oldest child. The shy and retiring one over there with the Haitian headdress serving pescaíto frito."

As Trey said, why wouldn't terrorists just stick bombs up their asses or snooches? This has already been done before. What about pets? A terrorist could do surgery on his evil cat and put a bomb inside or one up their asses or snooches..lol. Do pets get the scan?

Oh, just heard tonight that these scanners were pushed by former Homeland Security Director, Michael Chertoff and his client makes the machines. How bout that! Not saying that means they aren't effective. It is just nice someone can make money from them while pushing for them.

And, do any of us really trust the "safe radiation" that we're being told? They were originally only suppose to be used in rare circumstances. If I flew everyday like pilots, I would be concerned. I would want more research done. We've been fooled before by the gov't telling us one thing or another.

No, but you can bet your bippy "they" are trying...hence Shoe bomber and Crotch bomber. But the problem ultimately is not going to be a solvable one, it is merely a matter of time before a terrorist hides a bomb up the pooper. I believe they already did this in trying to assasinate a Saudi Prince. Im not sure any screening devices would be able to detect Poop chute bombs. But that is where screening/profiling protocols may be useful such as done by El Al (as you stated).

On a similiar note, what bothers me is the lack of security screening onAmtrak in the northeast corridor, especially into DC. Over the past few years I have taken the Amtrak from Virginia to DC several times, and sometimes into NY. Not once was there any screening of my person, nor have i ever seen a bomb sniffing dog (in spite of the widely publicized videos by homeland security of dogs on trains). Hell once I traveled into DC without even seeing a conductor, no one ever took my ticket.

-Will

My apologies Will. I missed your post about the poop chutes. Has anyone mentioned the scanners are in 60 airports and all airports are doing the full body pat-down if you set off an alarm on a regular screener. Diane Sawyer just told me that.

Modified: Also just heard the TSA is considering whether the new MacBook Air needs to go through screening as it is so thin that you couldn't hide a bomb inside.

BTW, my trip back home was just as flawless. The security lines were three file deep, long and winding but moved along at a quick clip. It seemed that everyone had the process down to a science when it came to removing shoes, putting electronics in the plastic bins, etc. I was impressed.

Logged

"He is my oldest child. The shy and retiring one over there with the Haitian headdress serving pescaíto frito."

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts