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Congratulations to BimmerBoost member Ricky (ERM324) who set a new S65 V8 trap speed record at the ATCO drag strip in New Jersey this past Sunday. The E92 M3 has a dual clutch transmission and was run on 100 octane with drag radials and a Gintani full exhaust. The 60 foot on the record trap run was 2.148 (the DCT is very finicky to launch) which means there is plenty of room to improve the ET and this is most definitely a 10 second car with a good launch.

This now makes for the second M3 supercharger kit company to crack the 130 mph barrier boost only. It would seem the stock internal limit with a blower is the 10 second and low 130 MPH range. Congratulations to ERM324 and it is great to see more cars clear the 130 mark and raise the trap speed bar in the process.

You hook up fine and can do a burnout fine. The problem is heat and that can be managed. If the DCT does not overheat it will launch better than the manual because you aren't going to beat a computer launching at 6200 rpm. Best M3 60 foots are DCT's.

I do have a flashloader but when you upload a file it takes 30-45 minutes....so, according to your theory, wouldnt steve or anyone have seen me doing that while we were all hanging out parked in staging? I dont get it....

Also, there was really no variance in my trap speeds - I bounced off the rev limiter on my 129 run...and on my 127 run I had traction on with D5 and was experimenting and the car spun in 1,2 gears then shortshifted to 3rd and I wound up at 2k rpm and only got on the car full throttle almost down 1/4 of the track already......the runs were consistent when I didnt mess up.

And no, it didnt take ess 3 years to break 130 because of the kit, but because of the lack of individuals out there like myself who will actually head to the track with the proper setup (dct, slicks, etc...) and run the kit balls out and see what its got (except for drew). Drew is the only guy that went like I do and he hit 129.xx which can obviously weasle out a 130 with slight tweaks in weather, DA, track, etc.

You can doubt all you want, but maybe this proves the superiority of this kit over the gintani? Not sure what to tell you at this point. You needed meth and a meth tune to run a slower trap than me with just as $#@!ty of a 60 foot, and im running a pump gas tune and hitting higher traps..this says enough

Once again, instead of supporting an accomplishment involving ESS your questioning how it happened and my setup because the results surpassed your expectations for the kit.

I do have a flashloader but when you upload a file it takes 30-45 minutes....so, according to your theory, wouldnt steve or anyone have seen me doing that while we were all hanging out parked in staging? I dont get it....

Not saying you did anything wrong, just getting further info. I figured you had a flash loader, it makes sense according to how I'm thinking about this.

Originally Posted by ERM324

Also, there was really no variance in my trap speeds - I bounced off the rev limiter on my 129 run...and on my 127 run I had traction on with D5 and was experimenting and the car spun in 1,2 gears then shortshifted to 3rd and I wound up at 2k rpm and only got on the car full throttle almost down 1/4 of the track already......the runs were consistent when I didnt mess up.

How many runs over 130 and 132 mph runs do you have?

I'm sure there are reasons why you hit 127 and whatever they may be we do see a 5 MPH variance in your runs.

Originally Posted by ERM324

You can doubt all you want, but maybe this proves the superiority of this kit over the gintani? Not sure what to tell you at this point. You needed meth and a meth tune to run a slower trap than me with just as $#@!ty of a 60 foot, and im running a pump gas tune and hitting higher traps..this says enough

I don't really see what Gintani has to do with any of this?

I'm not doubting you. You ran what you ran. I'm just telling you about how a trap can be affected.

Bud, I ran 7.5 psi of boost on a tune 2 years ago and only ran that car at the strip on that one day but ran less than a MPH variance in every run. I don't know what my 60 foot was as the timer was broken for it but I did not have a 5 mph spread meaning I was not inflating my traps by having the tires spinning before clearing the beams. That is what gives you a higher trap when spinning BTW, essentially a running head start.

Secondly, a T-trim blower moves more CFM than the V3. I'm sure you won't understand this but there is no way for that smaller blower to be superior with the volumetric efficiency of the S65. It's going to be the same thing with the Stage 3 setups except more pronounced.

Originally Posted by ERM324

Once again, instead of supporting an accomplishment involving ESS your questioning how it happened and my setup because the results surpassed your expectations for the kit.

I think you are reacting negatively to very valid questions. I asked if you had a flash loader. I asked what your trap speed spread was. There is nothing mean spirited here. I can see you aren't really handling this too well despite me congratulating you several times and doing everything I could to promote your accomplishment.

If you do not want to have a more in depth discussion no worries.

My expectations for M3's are what I have always said, it is a 130 trap car when supercharged with enough boost and octane on the stock internals. It's nice to finally have confirmation from another kit and without nitrous. Took a while, but it's right inline with where the standard was set.

Not saying you did anything wrong, just getting further info. I figured you had a flash loader, it makes sense according to how I'm thinking about this.
.

Usually too for the record, we usually leave a battery tender on the car set at 14.1V while its loading the flash. We were having issues with it the last time he was in the shop (IAT codes) and it took 3 revisions from ESS to cure the issue. It literally sat on the lift all day long. If the car happens to sit in the pit with a weak battery, and you leave the ignition on with the DRLs on and whatever else is running in the car (AC, fan, radio etc), if the battery drops below 12V it can screw the flashing up pretty bad, leaving a half flashed DME and a pain to override it to flash it again (if its even possible)

Props to the guys who actually do this at the track without any battery source, there is a risk involved without it

I know I dont have a M3 but I would like to add a little something here.

While the T Trim out flows the SI 1200CFM to 1150 CFM of the SI blower,The Trim has a efficiency rating of 73% to the SI's 78%.

In a high reving car such as a M3 this matters, I think this is the reason ERM was able to accomplish what he did.

The T Trim is not really all that more powerful than the SI blower. I know I have seen it before granted not on this platform.

You need to be able to flow enough air. The efficiency rating being higher doesn't really mean all that much when the blower flows less, revs lower, and has a smaller air inlet diameter. The YSI has the same efficiency rating as the V3, and? The YSI powers cars into the 8's, the V3 can't.

It hit the trap it did because it is a high boost high octane setup that is pretty much maxing the stock internals. This is exactly the capability before you need to start looking at lowering the compression.

The T-Trim is much stronger than the SI blower so I don't think you are familiar with it. The domestic guys can tell you all about it.

Usually too for the record, we usually leave a battery tender on the car set at 14.1V while its loading the flash. We were having issues with it the last time he was in the shop (IAT codes) and it took 3 revisions from ESS to cure the issue. It literally sat on the lift all day long. If the car happens to sit in the pit with a weak battery, and you leave the ignition on with the DRLs on and whatever else is running in the car (AC, fan, radio etc), if the battery drops below 12V it can screw the flashing up pretty bad, leaving a half flashed DME and a pain to override it to flash it again (if its even possible)

Props to the guys who actually do this at the track without any battery source, there is a risk involved without it

Interesting, seems various files were tried and this flash loader has been getting use.

You need to be able to flow enough air. The efficiency rating being higher doesn't really mean all that much when the blower flows less, revs lower, and has a smaller air inlet diameter. The YSI has the same efficiency rating as the V3, and? The YSI powers cars into the 8's, the V3 can't.

It hit the trap it did because it is a high boost high octane setup that is pretty much maxing the stock internals. This is exactly the capability before you need to start looking at lowering the compression.

the T-Trim is much stronger than the SI blower so I don't think you are familiar with it. The domestic guys can tell you all about it.

I am familiar with the T Trim to some extent,what it does on a V8 domestic is different than what it will do on a smaller motor with better volumetric efficiency. You have to remember is only flows 50 more CFM, they both have a maxe impeller speed of 55000 rpms.You can over spin the blower people do it all the time.

I also know the YSI powers cars into the 8's and your point is ?

Just because the T Trim has a bigger inlet diameter doesnt really mean it can flow air on a small motor with higer VE than a domestic V8's. Here are two examples of a T Trim,and a V2 Si that swap in a 928 motor sport impeller.These are built VQ 3.5's I know its not a S65 just a example Sticky.

Both these set up's are over spin the blower,as you can see the small blower is holding its own. I know its different dyno's ,and you have to take that into account somewhat.

To me your it just seems like your trying to take away from what ERM did or any ESS car for that matter.

The horsepower supported by the two is almost a 100 hp difference. This becomes even more important in a situation where the motor is maxing the blower as in this case due to the volumetric efficiency.

The T-trim flat out makes more power and is usually overspun. Nobody in the major drag racing classes chooses a V3 over a T-trim just like nobody will choose a T-trim over a YSI.

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

I also know the YSI powers cars into the 8's and your point is ?

That the V3 doesn't even though it has the same efficiency rating so what does that tell you about how important that rating is versus max RPM and CFM?

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

Both these set up's are over spin the blower,as you can see the small blower is holding its own. I know its different dyno's ,and you have to take that into account somewhat.

Seriously, a dyno dynamics versus a dynojet? Come on now.

Here:

I got off the phone with Vortech and here is what I was told...

The Si-trim upgrade is a happy medium between the S and T-trim. However it has the ability to be more efficent at 78% and allow more boost generated at lower RPM. (I think they're sick of losing to the roots/twinscrew guys on the mod cars) It will be good for 775hp and/or 27psi.

The efficiency isn't the same at all RPM ranges, it changes. The SI may give you a little more torque down low, and? It gets outflowed where you NEED the air on the S65 which is up top at 8400 rpm.

There is no way around it, the T-trim will support more power on the S65 period. The YSI setups are going to take a fat dump over anybody still stuck with the baby V3.

The horsepower supported by the two is almost a 100 hp difference. This becomes even more important in a situation where the motor is maxing the blower as in this case due to the volumetric efficiency.

The T-trim flat out makes more power and is usually overspun. Nobody in the major drag racing classes chooses a V3 over a T-trim just like nobody will choose a T-trim over a YSI.

That the V3 doesn't even though it has the same efficiency rating so what does that tell you about how important that rating is versus max RPM and CFM?

Seriously, a dyno dynamics versus a dynojet? Come on now.

Here:

I have spoken to vortech and the si that your posting is not the correct max impeller speed . Go look at the v 1 on there site and you win see what I'm saying . The t trim will make more power down low its up high where it would lose some of its efficacy on a engine with high ve .

A dyno dynamics read at best 10 percent lower than a dyno jet . The dynos that I showed you is just to prove that the si can put up a fight vs the
T trim

The efficiency isn't the same at all RPM ranges, it changes. The SI may give you a little more torque down low, and? It gets outflowed where you NEED the air on the S65 which is up top at 8400 rpm.

There is no way around it, the T-trim will support more power on the S65 period. The YSI setups are going to take a fat dump over anybody still stuck with the baby V3.[/FONT][/COLOR]

I have spoken to vortech and the si that your posting is not the correct max impeller speed . Go look at the v 1 on there site and you win see what I'm saying . The t trim will make more power down low its up high where it would lose some of its efficacy on a engine with high ve .

A dyno dynamics read at best 10 percent lower than a dyno jet . The dynos that I showed you is just to prove that the si can put up a fight vs the t trim .

Sorry sticky was on the phone and It didn't come out right when I typed it . I put it in the wrong placd lol a few drinks will do that to you .

Sorry man, you don't know what you are talking about. The T-Trim up top outshines the V3 easily. The V3 compressor map if you look at it will show you that.

It can read lower or higher, there is no set standard. It completely depends how that dyno dynamics was set and we don't know how it was set.

It's fine, no worries.

You can't take everything from there site as the whole truth for example. The V1 Si and T trim are the max out at the exact max impeller speed , they also have the same max boost rating. The difference is the Peak Efficiency 73% vs 78% hp rating to 775vs 825 ,now if you go and look at the V3 blowers you will see a differnce on the site. I called Vortech, spoke to them and ask them whats the difference between the SI V3/V1 ,there is none if you get the blower new from them. If you send in a unit for upgrade then there might be a differnce in bearings that are use thats it,this will effect the max impeller speed.

But like I said before the max impeller speed you can take with a grain of salt to some extent, people over spin blowers all the time. You are only at max impeller speed in most cases right before redline. On a street are doesnt matter that much,now if your on a race course living at the top of a gear then thats different.

There is a Vortehc V3 T Trim that you dont see listed on there site when you click on supercharger's but it's out there. Those guys at Vortech dont really update there site like they should. If you call them and speak to a tech you will find out some of the information that I am talking about.

This is a link of the vortech V3 that comes on a corvette has not been listed on there site under superchargers for years now.

As far as compresor charts look like T Trim Vs SI I have seen them , I also know what the do on domistic V8.We are talking about import motors VE is different here.

We are still talking about 50 CFM here, how much a differnce you think that makes on a S65 engine ?.I can tell not that much of a differnce. Just by looking at what ERM did ,and what your car did 2 years ago.Also I have looked at enough dyno charts as well. I cant lie Supercharged M3's have my attention somewhat.

Your just nick picking at any little thing you can find wrong with ERM slips. This is flat out bull $#@!, now I dont know ERM from a whole in a wall,I also hope Nimso Smokes him.

But God Dam Sticky are you always right? do you always have to have the last word.

In the end we both can look at vortech site dyno charts all we want man.ERM had 3 slips with trap speeds of 129,131,132. Real word performance man he just proved that the ESS kit can stand some ground vs your Gintani kit.But now its not good enough in your book Sticky has to find something wrong with it.

You can't take everything from there site as the whole truth for example.

Seriously? I can't take Vortech's own specs on their own superchargers as the truth?

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

If you send in a unit for upgrade then there might be a differnce in bearings that are use thats it,this will effect the max impeller speed.

Bearings are kind of a big deal in blowers going 50,000+ rpm.

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

But like I said before the max impeller speed you can take with a grain of salt to some extent, people over spin blowers all the time. You are only at max impeller speed in most cases right before redline. On a street are doesnt matter that much,now if your on a race course living at the top of a gear then thats different.

People overspin blowers on the street too. It definitely matters on the street and the volumetric efficiency of the S65 is so high even a blower like a YSI can be overspun with it... on the street.

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

As far as compresor charts look like T Trim Vs SI I have seen them , I also know what the do on domistic V8.We are talking about import motors VE is different here.

Of course the VE is different but it doesn't change the fact the T-trim supports more hp and more boost AS WELL as more rpm. So on a motor with a high volumetric efficiency which one do you want for max performance? There is no way to refute the physics behind it.

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

We are still talking about 50 CFM here, how much a differnce you think that makes on a S65 engine ?.I can tell not that much of a differnce. Just by looking at what ERM did ,and what your car did 2 years ago.Also I have looked at enough dyno charts as well. I cant lie Supercharged M3's have my attention somewhat.

Considering the T-trim can be overspun much further and that is the conservative Vortech rating a pretty big difference. Why can't the V3si compete with the T-trim in competition? Well?

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

Your just nick picking at any little thing you can find wrong with ERM slips. This is flat out bull $#@!, now I dont know ERM from a whole in a wall,I also hope Nimso Smokes him.

But God Dam Sticky are you always right? do you always have to have the last word.

I like for my site to have the right info.

Answer this, what will make more power? A V3si or a T-trim? It's pretty easy.

Additionally, I'm not nit picking ERM but pointing out certain things about hitting a "trap" record and the manner in which it was hit. Additionally, I wanted to learn if he had a flash loader and if different files were used. I think we got the answers to that.

And yes, I'm always right.

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

In the end we both can look at vortech site dyno charts all we want man.ERM had 3 slips with trap speeds of 129,131,132. Real word performance man he just proved that the ESS kit can stand some ground vs your Gintani kit.But now its not good enough in your book Sticky has to find something wrong with it.

It isn't an ESS versus Gintani thing. The 130 traps from Gintani were YEARS ago, it's irrelevant now almost. We are just waiting to see the real trap speed numbers come for the S65.

I'm not finding anything wrong, I'm putting ERM's runs in context as he seems to think 1 MPH on a fast track somehow means superiority from runs done years ago on a setup that is long gone.

I never got someone with an ESS kit or any other "kit" to ever run heads up. We can sit here comparing slips all day but I will be more than happy to run anybody running whatever hardware on their M3.

The horsepower supported by the two is almost a 100 hp difference. This becomes even more important in a situation where the motor is maxing the blower as in this case due to the volumetric efficiency.

One more thing where do you get 100 hp difference last I check 825 peak T Trim to 775 SI.Thats what 50 lol not almost 100 hp.These are peak numbers by the way not every engine will get there because of a lot of factors.

Your S65 M3 as a example will never get to the max of a YSI 1200 hp no where near it. You would have to stroke it just to have a shot. So your example of almost 100 hp difference is flawed big time.

One more thing where do you get 100 hp difference last I check 825 peak T Trim to 775 SI.Thats what 50 lol not almost 100 hp.These are peak numbers by the way not every engine will get there because of a lot of factors.

Your S65 M3 as a example will never get to the max of a YSI 1200 hp no where near it. You would have to stroke it just to have a shot. So your example of almost 100 hp difference is flawed big time.

I said it was almost a 100 hp crank difference in application, they list it at 50 on apper. When overspinning obviously it will get higher and higher considering the T-trim can be spun higher.

You don't understand, the YSI won't make 1200 hp on the S65. But the CFM will be maxed. Yes, the S65 maxes the YSI. @DBFIU