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Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

Originally Posted by paintmered

You think it's a stretch to suggest that the Penn State administration and athletic department didn't want to disrupt the economic machine that is (or at least was) Penn State football? Reporting child rape inside the program even then would have subjected the program to NCAA and Title IX investigations and possible sanctions. It wouldn't have killed the program but it would have been disruptive. Maybe more importantly, reporting the crimes would have been a stake to the heart to the very proud reputation that Penn State was never among the wrongdoers.

All those outside the admin and program are absolutely innocent since they had no direct tie to the events that took place. But many made their livings at the feet of Joe Paterno and the successes of the football team, donated to the school and funded facility improvements (Beaver Stadium expanded from 46,000 to nearly 110,000 during Paterno's tenure). In turn, they saw economic benefit from it all. How could that not create a culture of protecting the program at all costs? Happy Valley isn't like Columbus. It doesn't have state government or banking corporate headquarters as other economic drivers. There's the university, the tourism surrounding the football program and very little else.

It's a stretch to justify the suffering of people just because they make money off of PSU football. They had no idea any of this stuff was going on. The people who donated to the program did so with no knowledge of this stuff.

If the program had reported the McQueary incident to authorities it would have removed the burden from them. All they had to do was cooperate with the investigation and then it would have been up to the DA to get a conviction. If there was no conviction, then it's on the DA, not PSU. At that point Sandusky was already off the staff

Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

If the program had reported the McQueary incident to authorities it would have removed the burden from them. All they had to do was cooperate with the investigation and then it would have been up to the DA to get a conviction. If there was no conviction, then it's on the DA, not PSU. At that point Sandusky was already off the staff

Of course Sandusky was only off of the staff because of the 1998 incident that wreaks of favoritism to the football program.

Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

It's a stretch to justify the suffering of people just because they make money off of PSU football. They had no idea any of this stuff was going on. The people who donated to the program did so with no knowledge of this stuff.

Innocence of a crime and innocence of creating a protective culture are two different things. I'm arguing the latter absolutely existed among the otherwise unknowing community. And it is this culture that influenced Penn State's response to the crimes.

To have true closure requires prosecution of the criminals and a change from the the culture as it existed.

Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

Originally Posted by paintmered

Innocence of a crime and innocence of creating a protective culture are two different things. I'm arguing the latter absolutely existed among the otherwise unknowing community. And it is this culture that influenced Penn State's response to the crimes.

To have true closure requires prosecution of the criminals and a change from the the culture as it existed.

I don't know how you change culture. That culture exists everywhere in college football. Again, I don't think not reporting this was saving the football program. In fact not reporting it was jeopardizing it much more. If you want to protect the program at all costs you report it and fire a few people if necessary. There would have been very damage if they'd have reported the McQueary incident like the administrators wanted to do. It was a huge misjudgement on Paterno's part for talking them out of it. If they had reported it, the culture would not have changed

Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

This isn't necessarily about a Penn State problem or a college football problem or even a college athletics problem. This is about an institution that makes a lot of money or has a lot of power that wants to keep making money and keep the power they have. Anything that is a threat to that will be swept under the rug.

I think Sea Ray may have a point when he said that if it were initially reported there wouldn't have been as much damage. But I think when you are on the inside of something like this, you don't see things clearly. You just want to protect the institution. You are also worried about keeping your job. That's why the janitor(s) wouldn't report what they saw. They didn't want to lose their job(s). That's why none of the higher ups didn't want to report it. They didn't want to lose thir jobs. They also knew that college football is a cutthroat business. If word got out what Sandusky was doing there, they would have lost a lot of recruits.

I think PSU should suspend the football program for 2 years. It's not fair to the players or vendors or anyone else who works there. But it sure as hell wasn't fair that all those kids were molested and raped by a prominent member of the program and no one - not the president or athletic director or even Paterno himself lifted a finger to help those kids or to stop it.

Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

I don't know how you change culture. That culture exists everywhere in college football. Again, I don't think not reporting this was saving the football program. In fact not reporting it was jeopardizing it much more. If you want to protect the program at all costs you report it and fire a few people if necessary. There would have been very damage if they'd have reported the McQueary incident like the administrators wanted to do. It was a huge misjudgement on Paterno's part for talking them out of it. If they had reported it, the culture would not have changed

You change cultures by dropping the hammer on an example and putting the fear of God himself into every administrator, coach, janitor and onlooker in the country.

You let the stories of closed businesses and out-of-work support staff serve as everlasting reminders that EVERY person in a community who depends on an institution or organization has a personal responsibility to do the right thing. You let the silent stadium be a reminder that the cover up is always worse than the truth.

It'll hurt, but that's exactly the point of this whole exercise. If you let Penn State football continue, you are admitting to the world that Joe Paterno and his cronies succeeded in their mission to protect the program at all costs.

Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

I really do not care about Happy Valley businesses. That's capitalism, sometimes stuff blindsides your business that you have no control over. Penn State doesn't deserve to have football right now, and it shouldn't continue just so some restaurants can do better.

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
--Oscar Wilde

Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

Originally Posted by Redsfaithful

I really do not care about Happy Valley businesses. That's capitalism, sometimes stuff blindsides your business that you have no control over. Penn State doesn't deserve to have football right now, and it shouldn't continue just so some restaurants can do better.

I tend to agree with you on this issue. It really is unfortunate that innocent people are going to be hurt by this but you really cant go around leaving people, institutions, businesses, etc. unpunished because innocent people may be harmed. Really anytime a crime or rule is broken innocent people are going to be negatively affected in some way. I think we can all attest that sometimes life isn't fair. We are all left to wonder what would have happened to the football program if this would have been handled back in 98. In my opinion PSU should not be punished for the actions of Sandusky (that's on him) however they should be punished for the 14 year coverup and the fact that they still allowed this monster on their campus. Jeez not even a "I don't ever want to see your face on this campus again" from JoePa. Another thing is im getting tired of people telling me that I cant let this incident make me forget all the good things JoePa has done. Yes, yes I can. IMO helping to cover up the rape of children trumps anything you have ever done in your life.

During my 18 years I came to bat almost 10,000 times. I struck out about 1,700 times and walked maybe 1,800 times. You figure a ballplayer will average about 500 at bats a season. That means I played seven years without ever hitting the ball. ~Mickey Mantle, 1970

Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

I understand where you're coming from but such a penalty would be awfully harsh and hit a lot of innocent parties

First of all it's likely that many of the 80 or so football players on scholarship will not be able to get scholarships from other schools. There's also the many folks who make money off the football team from the vendors to the sportsbar workers around town. These are hard working folks who need the money.

As it is the guilty parties will be punished harshly. You know Paterno's fate. The other three men in power will be subject to civil and possibly even crominal charges and the school will have to pay out handsomely to each and every victim that comes out.

I don't like the idea of taking away bowl appearances, but letting the school play all the games. The school will still make a ton of money and the players suffer. Where is the justice there? If you give the kids a chance to transfer, they have a chance of playing for other schools and most players would find spots on other teams (keep in mind, commits would only be affected in year 1). If there are scholarships involved, then Penn State should pay for those scholarships at other schools for that first year.

As redsfaithful pointed out, and I agree, the local businesses may suffer, and that sucks, but they knew the risks of being in business. Anything can happen. You have to evolve and be prepared for the worst.

The one thing I'll concede is 4 years may be a little harsh, but I think it should be a minimum of 3 years.

This is all moot though. I bet the NCAA doesn't do much of anything. It's corrupt.

Re: Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

The Paterno statue will remain, at least for now, according to the board of trustees.

What a shame. They claim they are worried about making a rash decision. Really? This school needs to close down, yesterday.

From what I've read, it seems like, even after the Freeh Report, the Board of Trustees and many in State College don't seem to fully grasp the enormity of the situation. I don't know if they will until either the NCAA comes down on them hard or they get hit with civil suits in which the compensation to the victims includes massive punitive damages.

Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

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