Quite literally, I'm trying to write a text in Old Skourene, and I seem to be stuck on the adverb "as well" or "also" in a sentence. More precisely, given the sentence in question (it's from the culture test), the word "even" or "possibly" would be useful here. Unfortunately, looking over the grammar, it appears as if there isn't such an adverb as of yet; the closest equivalent only works in the negative.Thus, I ask: how would such a construction work?

Ŋaşiupilisi ḷaşiuminiṭi lenim ḷalenis bseipagos.But-only-sacrifice-2s-3p and-only-thank-2s-3p two clan-GEN-2GENmBut you reserve your sacrifices and requests for the two gods of your bsepa, one male and one female.NOTE: In the absence of a word meaning “ask” or “request”, the word “thank” is best used, perhaps as a not-so-subtle hint that you want more.

Nirinum ḷatiroṭum lenimi aŋutiroṭ,Want-2s-3sn and-create-3p-3sn god-PL because-IMP-create-3pYou can ask the gods for things because that's their job:Literally, “you want something and the gods make it, because they have to make [it]”.

Nilḍeulni ŋokḍelni ḷamandbab.Know-become.god-INC-3p stop-become.god-3p and-human-someThings can become gods–some gods even used to be human beings–and they can cease to be gods.Literally, “things know how to become gods, stop becoming gods, and some humans as well”. (This is the one I had trouble on.)

Gitorum Ṭaldoḷ ḷalenimilek ḷamandalek Iksaragetor getirṭim mamelidoḷ Aḷiggamagetor geŋremasp ḷatirṭim gammama, ŋaptli klanldikuş.Create-3p-3sns world and-god-PL-its and-nation-PL-its ERG-Ksaragetor plus-make-3s-3pn thing-good-every and-ERG-Gamagetor plus-false-think-ERGPART and-make-3s-3pn clumsy-object-PL / but-believe-NEG-3p or-know-3p-muchThe world, including its gods and people, was originally created by Ksaragetor (who is responsible for all good things) and Gamagetor (who was not so good at his job and created all the messed-up things); but no one worships them or knows much about them.

Nelidum uṭalpas, aiŋrḷata-si?Understand-2s-3sn writing-ART CAUS-trade-2s-Q You can read–how would you do business without it?Literally, “can it cause you not to trade”?

Aimaidiri apasnir ippiraṭaral aḷaboimim kriukkar aseŋoku, klagolmimu krukussarikim.CAUS-body-DES-CYC-REFL3pm masculine-PL ERG-game-THISPL and-watch-DES-CYC-3pm-3pn fight-PL master-GENPL/ or-captured.person-GENPL because-superior-enjoy-2s-3pnIf you're male, you like to participate in these and watch exhibitions by masters–or even better, fights with captured prisoners.“Master” is aseŋok “succeeder”. The second part of the phrase is literally “or [the fights] of captured prisoners, because you enjoy them more”.

Krulamaşḍir pairriṭim aṭinarşat, ḷapuriṭim anaktir ded nsulnilpariṭim.Female-PL play-CYC-2sf-3pn while-mature-DUR-2sf and-play-INT-2sf-3pn first-PL three therefore-know-play-2sf-3pnIf you're female, you grew up playing at these things too, and can pursue the first three as an adult, if you care to.

One thing that should be noted is my use of the masculine forms throughout unless specified otherwise. I am unaware of how close to the truth this would have been in the original Skourene test, seeing as there is no impartial second person verb; I also make note of a number of phrases in the English which seem to point to a masculine writer, but again, it's open to interpretation until the final word of Zompist.

Usŋegg, murgamsaŋik ndusaŋikum gega, murbeaŋkim ginog ndunosmrig, murbeaŋḷaka eŋ ndudnitum ṭalul.IMP-work-1pinc/ before-clumsy-work-2sm after-IMP-work-2sm-3sn other.thing/ before-hurt-DUR-3pn foot-PL after-IMP-money-count-2sm/ before-annoy-DUR-3sn-2sm after-IMP-go-2sm-3sn sea-CDEFWe're here to work; if you get tired of doing one thing, do another; if your feet hurt, do the accounting; if you're sick of the city, take to the sea.The phrasing in Old Skourene suggests two states or actions, one before the choice and the other after; the option is in the imperative.

Ŋeilisum aṭiseiḷgal ŋliussaroḍ bsepataḍ,Eat-CYC-2sm-3sn while-evening-CDEFAS meal-big family-alongsideYou like to eat a big meal in the evening, at home with your family;The term “evening” is seiḷga “it cyclically is darkened”.

Ŋanosḍairiḍum sneragoş diriŋ ŋratali, klaḍairiḍi neirag tnasali.But-buy-CYC-2sm-3sn meal-2sGEN loc-CYC-2s market/ or-bring-CYC-2sm-2pm toward-CYC-2p eatery.But you usually buy your lunch in the market, or take some business associates to an eatery (tnasali).Note that the locative verb ner- in this case take the 2p absolutive form, combining the subject and the object from the previous verb.

Ŋlis mambab ŋagegakuş.Eat-NEG-2s thing-few but-other-manyThere's very little that you wouldn't eat.A tautology, but the separation of the few and others is implied.

Dma nama ḷasauiltai ḍusdoḷ, sailna ḍnsa nsulṭailal klaḍeilul, ḍensa ksaslataliurul eŋil.Far-NEG-2s water-PL and-wash-DES-CYC-2sREF day-every/middle-CYC-2s rich-NEG-2s sea-GEN-CDEF or-river-GEN-CDEF/ rich-2s heat-wash.place-GENp-CDEF city-GEN-CDEF.You don't like to live far from the water, and you take a morning bath every day if possible-- if you're poor, right in the ocean or the river; if you're better off, in the heated city baths.Bath is ksaslatali “heated washing place”, as distinct from slatali “lavoir”.

EDIT: Thank you, Zompist. Sauriltai is now sauiltai.

Last edited by Pedant on Sat May 23, 2015 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Aw, that almost feels like cheating...but, when life hands you lemons on a silver platter...Thank you for the help. How does it seem so far?Also, looking at said page, this means that the inceptive desiderative of dant- "go/send" would be dauuntu. Does this contradict Old Skourene not having long vowels, or is it assumed that the two will cancel one another out/be separated by -r- (thus dauntu or dauruntu)?

Murdaunitum ṭlepa kladigad moṭimi eŋdadnu deḍuroḍum ŋabauḍeroḍo, ge-mirili saralni gerredil.Before-send-DES-2sm-3sn essay or-wrap.tool person-GEN city-inside-3smABS after-carry-INT- ERG-word.carry-agent-PL / CR-summon-2sm-3pm middle-DUR-3pmABS street-GEN-CDEFIf you need a letter or package sent to someone in the city, there are messengers who will take it-- you just flag one down in the street.

Ŋresarikum mniuddar, ŋaḍimmaurmu eŋul abeg?False-enjoy-2sm-3sn walk.instance-PL/but-completely-walk.circle-DES-3sm city-GEN-CDEF whoYou have no objection to walking, but who has the time to walk all the way across town?“You do not falsely enjoy walks”, thus “you do enjoy walks”.

Ḍairḷoḍa ḍiroḍ klameiriṭum şoḷmiṭim geḍḷum namaliul.Carry-3pn-2sm carry-tool-PL or-ride-CYC-2sERG-3snABS dock-GEN-DEFPLThere's carriages for that; or you take a skiff along the waterfront.

Nulidum murunra eŋil, nduşḷimum şoḷmim.Of.course before-move-int-2sm city-gen-DEF/after-sail-IMP-2sm-3sn ship-GENTo get to other cities, of course, you take a ship.

Ṣaragil kru-tiaḍ mandi agaşri bseupa iggrepu smapaliri; gropa boṭşinkosu nen-doadmi.Great-DUR-2smERG because-inside-2smERG people-GEN free rule-abs.part bsepa-GEN-PL meet-erg.part-GEN-PL senate-GEN/rule.NEG-3pm-2sm king-GENPL as-foreignersYou're proud to be part of a free people, which is ruled by its own bsepas, meeting in a Senate, and not by "kings", as the foreigners are.

Suṭşim de-kusmaspim, suṭişu de-nosnirinu.Solve-INT-3pnABS after-super.think-3pnABS / solve-DES-2smERG after-money.have-2smERGYou think that most problems can be solved if they're thought about long enough–and if you can be the first to think of it, there's probably money in it.

Tŋkim teḷkriukka nsul-nilḍarḍim nerim dladaliu, ŋa-mḷaŋa kru-nilparogum ŋortimgoş.End-3pn-NEG dispute-PL therefore-take-3pn-ABIL court-GENPL / but-scare-3sn-2sm because-ABIL.inspect-3pm-3pn merchandise-G2smDisputes that can't be solved any other way can be taken to the courts-- a scary prospect, as the judges are empowered to probe into every aspect of your life.Literally, “They can inspect your wares”.

Maŋili ḍuḍosp bseipal kru-ŋemola.Speak-DES-2sm-3pm brother-PL-old bsepa-GEN-DEF because-benefit-3pm-2smThe better way is to talk to the higher-ups in the bsepa, and they'll work it out for you.

Aipomoda, aŋa-trḷala dladali.CAUS-help-MET-3pm-2sm / but-touch-NEG-3sa-2sm courtYou'll owe them a favor; but that's better than the courts getting their hands on you.

Mrḍim mandimi ṭailḍol.Alone-NEG-3pm Human-PL Almea-GENHumans aren't the only people on Almea.

Ḍadŋim Ṭailuadniral ṭail,In-3pmABS iliu-DEFPL sea-GENThere's the Ṭailuadnir, who live in the sea;

Kriki ḷa-ḍoḍidi, aŋa-bŋoka.Fight-NEG-2sm-3pm and-brother-NEG-2sm-3pm / but-hurt-NEG-3pm-2smYou don't want one as an enemy, and you're not sure if you want one as your friend, either. Not that they'll harm you, no.NOTE: Maybe this would be better phrased “You don’t want to fight the Ṭailuadnir, and…”

Noulidu priṭi şketapiriraṭul.Learn-MET-2smERG play-NEG-2sm-3pm drink-game-DEFGENPLYou've learned the hard way not to play drinking games with them.

Nonra geŋul kru-ḍadnim geŋŋiaḷgirigil anenokitsi.Move-NEG-2smERG forest-DEFGEN because-in-3pm icëlan-PLDEF trickster.little-PLThen there's the geŋŋiaḷgirigi-- mischievous little devils who are an excellent reason not to go into the forest, where they live.

Ŋolḍairḷoḍi nraşalir ṭom-aisuarḷoki.Bring.food-CYC-3pa-3pm farm-PL purpose-CAUS-please-INT-DUR-3pa-3pmFarms near the forest will leave out food for them, to appease them.

Odaŋu saupul kla-slelademul ameŋoṭo-gog.Live-MET-3pmA mountain-GENPL-DEF or-steppe-DEF monster-PL-otherThere are other monsters up in the mountains or the steppe.

Nelid kusnirkuş kru-gaumspa.Understand-2smE language-PL-many because-clumsy.think-NEG-2smAYou're not the sort of hick who only knows one language.

Nelid kusniul eŋigoş ḷa-ṭrotabab,Understand-2smE language-DEF city-GEN-mthy and-city.state-PL-otherYou know your own city's language and that of a few other Skourene cities.

Maraŋolim baugitrubab, nosḍauiriḍi nliullasir.Speak-DES-3pm-3pn philosopher-some / pay-DES-CYC-2sm-3pm word-theirSome of the philosophers offer lectures; it's often worth paying a few coins to hear what they have to say.

Pumnlladeg mriuggail, gropi oŋul ikkreke.Help-learn-NEG-3sa-1pm chronology-DEFGEN/ meet-NEG-3p-3p city-DEFPL fight-EPART-PLComplicating the chronology, they're not held if the cities are at war with each other.NOTE: pumnlladeg is “it does not help us in learning”; “the cities at war do not meet the others”.

Last edited by Pedant on Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

“Pkmeḍ,” nulunum, ŋa-ptlum aṭi.Fight-NEG-1pmREF/ say-1pem-3sn/ but-believe-NEG-3snABS nowThere used to be a proverb that 'Skourenes don't fight Skourenes'... would that it were still true.NOTE: nulunum in this case is “we wished to say it,” thus implying that, after a time, it wasn’t said.

Kuşḍermui eŋ aḷ-aiteŋuku.Much-ennoble-3smREF city and-CAUS-stop-1pm-3smSome city will get too big for its breeches and need taking down.

Sintu ŋgoş kru-krekabab, ḷa-baslagum tebbeḍkuşlek.Stab-3sm city-thy because-war-some/ and-lose-3sn-3sn empire-much-itsYour own city has come out on the wrong side of a war or two, and perhaps lost a good deal of its colonial empire.

Ŋa-pgomum ḍusṭaş Skouras iddoadmi, ḷa-nilḍşinum ḍusṭaş.But-conquer-NEG-3pm-3sn never Skouras ERG-foreigners/ and-can-see-NEG-2sm-3sn neverSkouras has never been conquered by foreigners, however, and it's hard to see that it ever could be.

Belladim nen-nosesuŋekagog etusenar ibbsopa.Arrange-3pa-3pnA like-business-other marriage-PL ERG-bsepa-PLMarriage, like any business of importance, is arranged between the bsepas.

Ḍḷnum ḍirakuş etusena, ŋa-bungauşitut nen-bsepagoş.Ease-NEG-3sn many.hours marriage / but-almost-love-INC-3sm-3sf like-bsepa-2smGENIt takes time to get used to being married, but you end up loving the person almost as much as your own relatives.

Benku bsepaisat muraṭi,Stay-3sm bsepa-GEN-3sfPOS before-now /In the old days, a man joined his wife's bsepa.

Aŋ-inaiḍarḷaḍu tosnisi molnim anakti inneru bsepaisan ŋiraş.But-CAUS-bring-ATT-3sa-3sm wife-GEN son first toward-ATT-3pmA bsepa-GEN-3smGEN moneyThese days a firstborn son may bring his wife into his own bsepa instead-- at least, if his is richer.NOTE: Literally, “Money tries to cause a first son to bring his wife [as] they go toward his bsepa.”

Intsnit tosnisi ŋapeson, ŋa-danomit atesogo ŋanenoko.Marry-NEG-ATT-CYC-3sm-3pf wife-PL ERG-man / but-make.love-DES-3pm-3pf burlesque-PL ERG-cheater-PLA man can only have one wife; but some men-- lucky bastards-- can support a mistress or two.

Tesonut ameşoḍ ŋapesono ḍog doŋu plagaliu ḷa-basgit.Marry-3pm-3sf woman ERG-man-PL two live.in-3pmE colony-GENPL and-lack-3pfAIn colonies, where the supply of women is low, a woman is sometimes married to two men.Ironically for such a statement, the woman marrying the two men has little importance in the sentence.

Ŋredinmiri apesono şiu-krekadim kla-ŋriutta.Wrongly-make.love-3pmR man-PL without-war-long or-trade.expeditionIt's not really right for men to sleep with other men, outside of special circumstances like a long campaign or a trading expedition.

Baunealidum baunledai.Name-HAB-2sm-3sm name-GENYou call a person by his name.

Ṣoadoma iddoadmi baunledaukuş, aḷ-inaisaṭoşa bogimi.Confuse-MET-HAB-3pm-2sm ERG-foreigners name-GENPL-many / and-ATT-CAUS-guess-3pm-2sm which-n-GENForeigners make this complicated by having multiple names and making you guess which one to use.

Pumuŋrḷota ippliunnar aḷ-iŋŋliussar.Help-trade-IMP-3pa-2sm ERG-gift-PL and-ERG-meal-PLWhatever sort of business you have, gifts and meals will help it along.

Ŋa-ŋrekmopim ekpasurekar akasni kaḷ-eḍunesa gşiurraul.But-false-expect-3pm-3pn vice-PL hear-ABSPART or-rich.becoming government-DEFGENPLBut it's going a little too far when people expect to have their vices satiated, or get rich at official posts.

One slight question: in ordering the elements of a word with two suffixes, say -kuş with the genitive plural suffix...which one comes first? I.e. if I were to say "of many stars", would the order be maḍaŋ-kuş-u, or maḍaŋ-u-kuş?

Dauptilum ŋiraş şiu-nilam, innosbairiḍum aŋ-inaiŋrişum.Wholly-trust-NEG-HAB-2sm-3sn money except-gold / ATT-money-save-CYC-2sm-3sn but-ATT-CAUS-buy-NEG-2sm-3snThe only money you entirely trust is gold, but it's more for saving than for buying things.NOTE: The second part of the sentence should run “you try to save it, but try to not cause it to buy things.”

Ḍeḷḷanum nosesuŋeka ebbsepagoş, kru-tararouṭum ḍusdoḷ, ḷa-patili apemodo ḷa-nosepumeda.Easy.make-3sa-3sn business ERG-bsepa-2smGEN / because-make-DES-HAB-1p-3sn every.day / and-trust-2sm-3pm helper-PL and-money-helpThe simplest way to run a business is within your own family or bsepa--there's a tradition for it, trustworthy workers, and financial help.

Ŋa-nilaipamidi bsipi kla-nilpamidum kusŋarḷaturoḍ boslagu ḍodo aŋ-uḍedasṭas.But-ABIL-CAUS-help-2sm-3pm clan-NEG-2sm-3pm or-ABIL-help-2sm-3sn trading.concern-large lack-MET-3sa brother-PL but-solidarity-notBut you can have a family firm with nonfamily employees, or work for a large concern that has lost any family character (though in many ways it acts like a bsepa).

Kirla nsul-mepomoda aḷ-ŋrenosḍaroḍa aḷ-koarla ŋainudpur inneke.Sick-2sm therefore-false.help-3pm-2sm and-wrong.money.acquire-3pm-2sm and-sick-DUR-2sm ERG-doctor-PL cheat-ERGPARTIf you're sick, there are people who will do disagreeable things to you and charge you for it and leave you just as sick.NOTE: It should technically be innneke, but I really wasn’t certain of the general policies on triple consonants.

Ukiriku ŋeŋand pamkirirukui aṭi-kirkum eŋgoş kla-minkirkim oŋ kpaişşgele.Fight-IMP-CYC-2smE ERG-city.dweller army-GEN when-attack-3sn city-2smGEN or-back.attack-3pn city-PL arrogant-PLAs a citizen, you have the right and obligation to serve in the army, when your city is attacked or when arrogant outside cities need to be punished.

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