NBADraft.net - Comments for "all this talk about Jordan being the best ever..."http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/all-talk-about-jordan-being-best-ever
Comments for "all this talk about Jordan being the best ever..."enUnrelated to the GOAThttp://www.nbadraft.net/forum/all-talk-about-jordan-being-best-ever#comment-546038
<p>Unrelated to the GOAT conversation, but I needed a place to post this.</p>
<p>Shaq's NBA finals averages</p>
<p>2000- 38 and 17 with 3 blocks</p>
<p>2001- 33, 16, and 5 with 3 blocks</p>
<p>2002- 36 and 12 with 3 blocks</p>
<p>Those are big time numbers, and his free throw percentages in all three series were under 50%, I saw one game against Indiana where he had 39 fre throws. Imagine if he made even 65% of his free throws. I swear, even though Shaq has the clutch gene and killer instinct, He's be in this conversation IF he had a better work ethic, he could've averaged 33 and 14 in that scenario.</p>
Wed, 20 Feb 2013 05:22:24 +0000aamir543comment 546038 at http://www.nbadraft.netRussell played with greathttp://www.nbadraft.net/forum/all-talk-about-jordan-being-best-ever#comment-546021
<p>Russell played with great players, I'm not doubting that. But it's not like Wilt was always playing with scrubs, and the two of them were so great, and so ahead of the rest of the league, and EVERY SINGLE TIME they matched up the playoffs, Russell dominated him.</p>
Wed, 20 Feb 2013 04:11:58 +0000Ghost01comment 546021 at http://www.nbadraft.netso 11 ringshttp://www.nbadraft.net/forum/all-talk-about-jordan-being-best-ever#comment-546014
<p>what was Russell cast comparing to Wilt?</p>
<p>in his 11 ring Russell had this supporting cast</p>
<p>Bill Sharman, bob cousy, Tom Heinsohn, Frank Ramsey, Sam Jones, K.C. Jones, John Havlicek, Bailey Howell and Larry Siegfried, but i really Respect Russell a lot because he was a leader, played for the success of the team and was so Fundamental playing the game</p>
<p>Well Wilt won it 2 times, but when the playoffs started he was a different player a bad one he couldn't play that well</p>
Wed, 20 Feb 2013 04:10:21 +0000IvoLcomment 546014 at http://www.nbadraft.netlolhttp://www.nbadraft.net/forum/all-talk-about-jordan-being-best-ever#comment-546004
<p>1991 finals Lakers do you know the roster?</p>
<p>my answer: Lakers stats PTS/G: 106.3 (13th of 27) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 99.6 (2nd of 27)<br />
Off Rtg: 112.1 (5th of 27) ▪ Def Rtg: 105.0 (5th of 27)<br />
Expected W-L: 59-23 (3rd of 27) </p>
<p>this team was a good defensive team say what about PARITY?????!!!!</p>
<p>Starting five: Magic, Scott, Worthy, Perkins and Divac<br />
extra energy: A.C. Green and Terry Teagle<br />
if you want i can show stats too </p>
<p>1992 finals Blazers do you know the team?</p>
<p>PTS/G: 111.4 (4th of 27) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 104.1 (12th of 27)<br />
Off Rtg: 111.4 (7th of 27) ▪ Def Rtg: 104.2 (3rd of 27)<br />
Expected W-L: 59-23 (2nd of 27) </p>
<p>Starting Five: Porter, Drexler, Kersey, Cliff Robinson and Buck Williams</p>
<p>not on the same lvl of the lakers but Cliff and Buck where good defenders on the paint, Drexler was an okay defender but an amazing player</p>
<p>1993 finals Suns?</p>
<p>PTS/G: 108.2 (1st of 27) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 103.4 (14th of 27)<br />
Off Rtg: 111.7 (1st of 27) ▪ Def Rtg: 106.8 (16th of 27)<br />
Expected W-L: 54-28 (5th of 27) </p>
<p>Good offensive team only flaw the defense</p>
<p>did you ever heard about a player named Kevin Johnson go check him the starting five was like this Johnson(20ppg 9.5apg and 1.9spg), Majerle(16.5ppg 4.4rpg 3.4apg), Ceballos(19.1ppg 6.5rpg), Barkley and A.C. Green(yep the same one of the lakers his stats 14.7ppg 9.2 rpg)</p>
<p>KJohnson was an excellent combo guard, well Brakley was Barkley and the rest of the team was good they had 2 guys from the bench that could help the team Ainge and Oliver Miller</p>
<p>1996 supersonics </p>
<p>PTS/G: 104.5 (2nd of 29) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 96.7 (8th of 29)<br />
Off Rtg: 110.3 (8th of 29) ▪ Def Rtg: 102.1 (2nd of 29)<br />
Expected W-L: 61-21 (2nd of 29) </p>
<p>did you know Payton was the guy asked to defend MJ </p>
<p>1997 and 1998 Jazz</p>
<p>2 man you say i think you forgot Hornacek...</p>
<p>Parity don't forget in the 90's on SG and SF yes MJ did play SF sometimes you had</p>
<p>Reggie Miller, Clyde Drexler, Mitch Richmond, Dumars, Stackhouse yes the guy that time could play, Iverson, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway(he could play sg), Latrell Sprewell, Steve Smith, Allan Houston, Chris Mullin, Glen Rice, Dominique Wilkins... now let me ask you how many good SG or SF you have in the league comparing to that era Kobe and Wade they actually stand out and SF Durant, Lebron and Carmelo... but for the future you will have Paul George, man Parity lol</p>
Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:52:55 +0000IvoLcomment 546004 at http://www.nbadraft.net1. Joe Dumars wasn't even thehttp://www.nbadraft.net/forum/all-talk-about-jordan-being-best-ever#comment-545915
<p>1. Joe Dumars wasn't even the best player on his own team. Hell, if it wasn't for Isaiah Thomas, he wouldn't be in the Hall of Fame.</p>
<p>2. While Clyde Drexer was good in the 90s, it wasn't exactly Kobe vs LeBron or Durant vs LeBron as it is nowadays.</p>
Wed, 20 Feb 2013 00:14:19 +0000Tongue-Out-Like-23comment 545915 at http://www.nbadraft.netThe Russell playing withhttp://www.nbadraft.net/forum/all-talk-about-jordan-being-best-ever#comment-545863
<p>The Russell playing with superior competition thing is overrated. Wilt played with a lot of good players over the course of his career, and with the Lakers, he had better help than Russell. Wilt wasn't the centerpiece of the 72 Lakers, West was. And yeah, he was centerpiece in the one team in a decades time that won a title when Russell didn't. </p>
<p>Wilt really didn't mature that much. He became better in the late stages of his career, but could you imagine a big man being so obsessed with thats that he goes out of his way to LEAD THE LEAGUE IN ASSISTS, while costing his team. Could you imagine a player averaging 50 and 25...YES 50 AND 25, and winning only 33 games? Wilt was obsessed with stats. Wilt did win something, I'll give you that, but everyone knew how selfish he was, how never fouled out of a game so he played tolken defense all the time. But he was still dominated by Russell. Russell was like 18-2 in elimination games and 16-0 in game 7s, or something along those lines. He failed to single handidly beat Russell, not because a washed up Bob Cousy and the rest of that team was that great. He did it because he never understood what Russell did, that it was a team-first game.</p>
Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:38:59 +0000Ghost01comment 545863 at http://www.nbadraft.netOh, the NA was definitelyhttp://www.nbadraft.net/forum/all-talk-about-jordan-being-best-ever#comment-545856
<p>Oh, the NA was definitely weak in the 90s. But there were 8-9 teams in the league in the 60s. Wracking up all those titles, with the roster Russell had with him, and the fact that Wilt was really the only other player in the league vaguely on his level (And you could add Elgin Baylor to that as well) makes it more reasonable then most realize that the Celtics dominated the way they did. </p>
<p>Yes Jordan was a clear cut ahead of the pack in the 90s, but the fact that many teams, he had 2 three peats back to back, its pretty amazing. You don't see anyone in any other sport winning 6 titles in an 8 year spand, because the talent is so spread out and year to year its much harder to sustain that success in a 30 team league vs in an 8 team league. Maybe "parity" was the wrong word, its just the fact that he won at that high of a rate in an era where it is much less pheasible than the days of 8-9 team leagues.</p>
Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:31:58 +0000Ghost01comment 545856 at http://www.nbadraft.netWilt was absolutely dominatedhttp://www.nbadraft.net/forum/all-talk-about-jordan-being-best-ever#comment-545824
<p>Wilt was absolutely dominated by Russell in every BIG game the met in. Russell was the ultimate team first guy, Wilt was the ultimate me first guy.</p>
<p>Jordan went 6/6 in the finals in an era of parity and 30 team leagues. That is unbelievable, and his ability to dominate games when they mattered most will never be matched. He is the GOAT, but if you wanna talk about historic competition, look at Russell's resume over Wilts.<br />
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<p>That's kinda unfair, Russell was fortunate enough to play with a terrific supporting cast in Boston while Wilt played with a mediocre Warriors team at the start of his career. Nonetheless Wilt was the centerpiece of two of the greatest teams in NBA history (The 1967 76ers and the 1972 Lakers). </p>
<p>Wilt was a me-first guy when he had to be in San Francisco but as he matured as a player and began to have better players around him he became a more well rounded team player. With the 76ers and Lakers his defensive play, rebounding, passing and efficiency from the field were critical to their success.</p>
<p>To be perfectly honest I don't like to credit Wilt too much for his stats because part of the reason he put up such crazy numbers for the Warriors is because the rest of the team was so bad (see Allen Iverson, Pete Maravich, Nate Archibald, Walt Bellamy, Adrian Dantley etc) but neither do I castigate him for failing to single-handedly beat Russell and the Celtics dynasty of the 60s.</p>
Tue, 19 Feb 2013 17:04:16 +0000ItsVictorOladipocomment 545824 at http://www.nbadraft.netJoe Dumars - Hall of Famehttp://www.nbadraft.net/forum/all-talk-about-jordan-being-best-ever#comment-545805
<p>Joe Dumars - Hall of Fame shooting guard- In the late 80's and early 90's getting past the Pistons was a right of passage for the Chicago Bulls. Joe Dumars was averaging between 17 and 23 points per game from 1988-1995 including 4 All-Defensive 1st teams and 1 All-Defensive 2nd team. He was the 88-89 Finals MVP and a guy MJ held to 12.5 ppg on 35% shooting in the 90-91 ECF on Chicago's way to their first title. He averaged 20 ppg on 48% shooting during the regular season that year.</p>
<p>Clyde Drexler - Hall of fame shooting guard/small forward - Jordan had to get past the 91-92 Trail Blazers in order to win his 2nd championship. First Ballot HOFer Cylde Drexler was coming off a season in which he averaged 25 ppg 6.7 rpg 6.7 apg 1.8 spg. Clyde was a player who was going to get his, averaging over 20 shots and 20 ppg, but despite shooting 47% from the feild and 35% from 3 during the regular season and 50% in the playoffs before the Bulls series, against Jordan, he shot 40% from FG and 15% from the feild matched up against Michael Jordan. Jordan made Clyde Drexler in-efficient scoring the basketball.</p>
<p>The best player in the league is often, and should be, head and shoulders above everyone else. Look at what Lebron is doing now. Who is his equal? Which great small forwards does he meet up with in the East. Luol Deng? Melo? Paul Pierce? All are very good in their own right, but they're not his equals. Who was Shaq's equal in the early 2000's? Jamal Magliore? Big Z? a 35 year old Robinson? No one. I understand what you are saying, but Jordan never failed to produce when he was matched up against the best players in the league. It would be different if he played no one and then got torched or didn't play well when he finally did play a HOF player or All-Star. This was never the case, he was the ultimate winner, he shut them down. </p>
<p>Look at what he did when he did get put against a great player, he spent the first 5 years of his career playing agaisnt some of the best teams in history, losing but still playing out of his mind. Those Celtic and Piston teams were incredible and extremely physical defensively, and Jordan took the punches and dropped 40,50,60 points on any given night. He paid his dues and never failed to produce, I don't think the lack of a Clyde Drexler, or Alex English on every team in the East makes what he did any less impressive. Not 1%. </p>
<p>He wouldn't have been stopped, just like no one would have stopped Shaq in 2001 or Lebron in 2012.</p>
Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:50:53 +0000JoeWolf1comment 545805 at http://www.nbadraft.net@tounge outhttp://www.nbadraft.net/forum/all-talk-about-jordan-being-best-ever#comment-545799
<p>Well if you look at old footage and games, it wasn't necessarily just the 2 guard guarding him. It was more like the whole team. But if you want to go that route there were the likes of Joe Dumars, early Dennis Rodman, Clyde Drexler, Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, John Starks (well, he tried hard at least), Isiah and Magic would check him, Dennis Johnson, The Glove would guard him in the Finals, Nique, Doc Rivers. And like I said though, mostly whole teams were tasked with trying to beat him, mostly to no avail but there were also plenty of perimiter players who absolute push overs either.</p>
Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:08:49 +0000i'm jus so offendedcomment 545799 at http://www.nbadraft.net