If the PS4 rumors are true, the 1 GB OS means 3rd party devs will have an extra 2GB of Memory they can use to store additional game assets [models/textures/etc].
In games like Skyrim and Oblivion for example when you approach a town gate none of the assets for the interior of the town are being loaded into memory. You get a loading screen because there simply isn't enough memory to house the exterior and interior. Additionally when you want to leave the town the assets have to be reloaded because they were wiped from memory to make room for the towns assets. Dynamic loading is used all throughout Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind and any open world game, however in the case of Skyrim/Oblivion only during when you travel around the world outside.

You might say that "well Xbox has 5GB of memory which is a 10x increase over the 476MB (-32MB OS overhead) last generation. But to achieve top notch graphic fidelity in games there is much greater texture resolution, more LoDs per object, high detail render targets, high detail prebaked lightmaps & shadowmaps (ala Forza 5), more objects and detailed environments, greater enemy variety, increased audio quality, more detailed memory demanding pixel shader effects, "superior to last gen post processing", etc

Take the single level Killzone ShadowFall demo from back in Febuary for example:
Back in febuary the game still in alpha used ~4.7 GB of unified memory. It was a demo so didn't need to load the next level or area as there were none that needed to load after the demo reached its end. They still have an additional 2GB they could use to stream loading more dynamically, reducing load times, or dynamically load the next part of the game if it did exist.

How awesome would it be to not experience loading screens when moving between different areas in game?

INDIE developer Jonathan Blow is taking advantage of the memory and using 5GB of memory for his indie game Witness. You think he with his tiny team are taking advantage of the memory while others will not? Also he was criticized for being extremely lazy for his using that much memory, and having too many assets stored in memory and not being tighter with his memory usage.

INDIE developer Jonathan Blow is taking advantage of the memory and using 5GB of memory for his indie game Witness. You think he with his tiny team are taking advantage of the memory while others will not? Also he was criticized for being extremely lazy for his using that much memory, and having too many assets stored in memory and not being tighter with his memory usage.

Remember, this is the same guy that tried to tell us XO's cloud server claims are a lie. Even though we've already had multiple developers who are actually using it show us otherwise. He has also recently talked about 'unpleasant experiences' on the 360 and is basically just a Microsoft-basher now. Which baffles me because that's the platform that...oh gee, I don't know...actually made him into a somebody.

By 'taking advantage' he really means 'won't bother doing proper memory optimization'.
Which brings us back to lazy developing.

Click to expand...

So wait, 3rd party studios are going to make unique features utilizing Kinect2.0 and SmartGlass but aren't going to take advantage of PS4's greater accessible memory....

Many games took advantage of the hardware differences last gen. But the differences were small and 360 generally got the slightly better textures because of the more memory allocatable to the gpu. Assassin's Creed and Battlefield were two examples.

I agree for multiplat games. Unless its something like taking shortcuts on porting it.

First party will take advantage of it.

Click to expand...

So wait, 3rd party studios are going to make unique features utilizing Kinect2.0 and SmartGlass but aren't going to take advantage of PS4's greater accessible memory....

Many games took advantage of the hardware differences last gen. Assassin's Creed and Battlefield were two examples.

Click to expand...

PS4 has SmartGlass, it just hasn't been released yet in the same way that as of now SmartGlass doesn't actually do squat aside from tell you who is online. So that will be supported.

Kinect is different, they might throw in some of the features that they have on Kinect if the eye is capable. I can see the Eye being able to put your face in the game like Kinect can considering it has facial recognition software.

I hope they take advantage of the memory but we'll have to wait and see.

It's not so much that third-party developers are "lazy". It's just that implementing this feature in one system means them conceding that the Xbox One version of their game is not at the same level as the PS4 version, and could alienate the install base of the console that's missing out.

INDIE developer Jonathan Blow is taking advantage of the memory and using 5GB of memory for his indie game Witness. You think he with his tiny team are taking advantage of the memory while others will not? Also he was criticized for being extremely lazy for his using that much memory, and having too many assets stored in memory and not being tighter with his memory usage.

Remember, this is the same guy that tried to tell us XO's cloud server claims are a lie. Even though we've already had multiple developers who are actually using it show us otherwise. He has also recently talked about 'unpleasant experiences' on the 360 and is basically just a Microsoft-basher now. Which baffles me because that's the platform that...oh gee, I don't know...actually made him into a somebody.

INDIE developer Jonathan Blow is taking advantage of the memory and using 5GB of memory for his indie game Witness. You think he with his tiny team are taking advantage of the memory while others will not? Also he was criticized for being extremely lazy for his using that much memory, and having too many assets stored in memory and not being tighter with his memory usage.

Remember, this is the same guy that tried to tell us XO's cloud server claims are a lie. Even though we've already had multiple developers who are actually using it show us otherwise. He has also recently talked about 'unpleasant experiences' on the 360 and is basically just a Microsoft-basher now. Which baffles me because that's the platform that...oh gee, I don't know...actually made him into a somebody.

It's people like Jonathan Blow that make me hate indie devs.

Click to expand...

He is right about the cloud assets.. The benefits are not as advertised okay, very mediocre at best..That's a marketing ploy..

I agree.. Mark Cerny even said it.. it appears we have forgotten how to make games… Very sad but true, these dev's want a paycheck but don't want to work for it..

Click to expand...

Why did Oblivion take advantage of certain of PS3's hardware advantages:

Here is a neutral unfanboy look at Oblivion: Why in gods name did Bethesda take advantage of the PS3's certain hardware capabilities. Why oh why oh why. Why did Ubisoft take advantage of each consoles various strengths and weaknesses for Assassins Creed. The sky is falling the sky is falling!

Vsync / control :I notice no tearing in either version, however, there is more input lag on the PS3 version. The lag feels about 75% worse (it's totally subjective however).

'Jaggies' :PS3 has worse jaggies, but not by much. The PS3 version seems to have no AA, while the 360 version looks like 2xAA on a PC.

Bloom / HDR effects :Best way to describe it is, 360 version seems to have more light bloom, with higher intensity of the colors. PS3 version has a more dynamic HDR effect, looking at a bright surface makes your 'eyes' adjust more than the 360 version.

Texture quality :The textures are generally higher resolution on the 360. I'd say 80% of the textures are twice as good on the 360. The few textures that are better on the PS3 are the character textures and some objects, such as the little table in your cell at the beginning of the game.

Texture Filtering :PS3 has an enormous edge here, looks more like 16xAF on a PC, more like no AF on the 360. This makes textures in the distance more clear.

Load times :PS3 version is superior here. PS3 load times are about 40% faster. A 10 second load time on 360 is about 6 on PS3. A 40 second load time is about 25 on PS3. Stuff like that.

Lighting (not HDR) :Lighting seems slightly better on the 360. One specific example is in the starting dungeon. The torch on the wall in your cell has a better effect on the 360. It waves around more, the PS3 version just pulses.

Framerate :360 is the winner here. PS3 is all around slower 90% of the time. Sometimes it's just a few FPS, sometimes it's up to ~10fps, I'd say. The slowdowns on the 360 are worse on the PS3.

Sound :PS3 version sounded more muffled, perhaps they compressed the audio. It's possible I'm wrong because the 360 itself is louder than the PS3 by far, so it was easier to hear the PS3 audio. Still, I'd say the PS3 audio sounds downsampled. Note, this doesn't count the music or voice, just the sound effects seem muffled.

LOD :PS3 has no better LOD than the 360 version. There is no choppyness when moving around outside like on the 360, but it isn't pushed out any. Also, like many suspected, the 'LOD shader fix' is not much more than the little texture LOD fixes that users made for the PC version.

Both versions look VERY similar, but I would give a slight edge to the 360 version, simply for the better textures (for the most part). Load time differences wouldn't be noticeable if I weren't running both at the same time. The PS3 is nice and quiet, so you can pick up more sound details, but the sound itself sounds a bit muffled on the PS3.

I agree.. Mark Cerny even said it.. it appears we have forgotten how to make games… Very sad but true, these dev's want a paycheck but don't want to work for it..

Click to expand...

Why did Oblivion take advantage of certain of PS3's hardware advantages:

Here is a neutral unfanboy look at Oblivion: Why in gods name did Bethesda take advantage of the PS3's certain hardware capabilities. Why oh why oh why. Why did Ubisoft take advantage of each consoles various strengths and weaknesses for Assassins Creed. The sky is falling the sky is falling!

Vsync / control :I notice no tearing in either version, however, there is more input lag on the PS3 version. The lag feels about 75% worse (it's totally subjective however).

'Jaggies' :PS3 has worse jaggies, but not by much. The PS3 version seems to have no AA, while the 360 version looks like 2xAA on a PC.

Bloom / HDR effects :Best way to describe it is, 360 version seems to have more light bloom, with higher intensity of the colors. PS3 version has a more dynamic HDR effect, looking at a bright surface makes your 'eyes' adjust more than the 360 version.

Texture quality :The textures are generally higher resolution on the 360. I'd say 80% of the textures are twice as good on the 360. The few textures that are better on the PS3 are the character textures and some objects, such as the little table in your cell at the beginning of the game.

Texture Filtering :PS3 has an enormous edge here, looks more like 16xAF on a PC, more like no AF on the 360. This makes textures in the distance more clear.

Load times :PS3 version is superior here. PS3 load times are about 40% faster. A 10 second load time on 360 is about 6 on PS3. A 40 second load time is about 25 on PS3. Stuff like that.

Lighting (not HDR) :Lighting seems slightly better on the 360. One specific example is in the starting dungeon. The torch on the wall in your cell has a better effect on the 360. It waves around more, the PS3 version just pulses.

Framerate :360 is the winner here. PS3 is all around slower 90% of the time. Sometimes it's just a few FPS, sometimes it's up to ~10fps, I'd say. The slowdowns on the 360 are worse on the PS3.

Sound :PS3 version sounded more muffled, perhaps they compressed the audio. It's possible I'm wrong because the 360 itself is louder than the PS3 by far, so it was easier to hear the PS3 audio. Still, I'd say the PS3 audio sounds downsampled. Note, this doesn't count the music or voice, just the sound effects seem muffled.

LOD :PS3 has no better LOD than the 360 version. There is no choppyness when moving around outside like on the 360, but it isn't pushed out any. Also, like many suspected, the 'LOD shader fix' is not much more than the little texture LOD fixes that users made for the PC version.

Both versions look VERY similar, but I would give a slight edge to the 360 version, simply for the better textures (for the most part). Load time differences wouldn't be noticeable if I weren't running both at the same time. The PS3 is nice and quiet, so you can pick up more sound details, but the sound itself sounds a bit muffled on the PS3.

Anyways, that's all I can think of for now.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Umm okay.. 512mb of memory vs 256 mb… Big difference… But i guess in the coming months we will see what developers are can do with both consoles…

INDIE developer Jonathan Blow is taking advantage of the memory and using 5GB of memory for his indie game Witness. You think he with his tiny team are taking advantage of the memory while others will not? Also he was criticized for being extremely lazy for his using that much memory, and having too many assets stored in memory and not being tighter with his memory usage.

Remember, this is the same guy that tried to tell us XO's cloud server claims are a lie. Even though we've already had multiple developers who are actually using it show us otherwise. He has also recently talked about 'unpleasant experiences' on the 360 and is basically just a Microsoft-basher now. Which baffles me because that's the platform that...oh gee, I don't know...actually made him into a somebody.

INDIE developer Jonathan Blow is taking advantage of the memory and using 5GB of memory for his indie game Witness. You think he with his tiny team are taking advantage of the memory while others will not? Also he was criticized for being extremely lazy for his using that much memory, and having too many assets stored in memory and not being tighter with his memory usage.

Remember, this is the same guy that tried to tell us XO's cloud server claims are a lie. Even though we've already had multiple developers who are actually using it show us otherwise. He has also recently talked about 'unpleasant experiences' on the 360 and is basically just a Microsoft-basher now. Which baffles me because that's the platform that...oh gee, I don't know...actually made him into a somebody.

It's people like Jonathan Blow that make me hate indie devs.

Click to expand...

He is right about the cloud assets.. The benefits are not as advertised okay, very mediocre at best..That's a marketing ploy..

By 'taking advantage' he really means 'won't bother doing proper memory optimization'.
Which brings us back to lazy developing.

Click to expand...

So wait, 3rd party studios are going to make unique features utilizing Kinect2.0 and SmartGlass but aren't going to take advantage of PS4's greater accessible memory....

Many games took advantage of the hardware differences last gen. But the differences were small and 360 generally got the slightly better textures because of the more memory allocatable to the gpu. Assassin's Creed and Battlefield were two examples.

Click to expand...

Yep. Because if they look the same on both consoles, then they won't bother. i can see them make more custom controls with the touchpad and more stuff for PS Vita Remote Play. Which would be more along the line of what you suggest they are doing for X1

All this means is multiplatform games will be gimped in order accommodate the X1 hardware. Might see the advantage in exclusives but that's about it. Or maybe this means multiplatform games will be superior much like the 360 games were due to higher RAM. Regardless, no multiplatform game will have considerable differences on PS3/X1 due to the engine being built with both in mind.

INDIE developer Jonathan Blow is taking advantage of the memory and using 5GB of memory for his indie game Witness. You think he with his tiny team are taking advantage of the memory while others will not? Also he was criticized for being extremely lazy for his using that much memory, and having too many assets stored in memory and not being tighter with his memory usage.

Remember, this is the same guy that tried to tell us XO's cloud server claims are a lie. Even though we've already had multiple developers who are actually using it show us otherwise. He has also recently talked about 'unpleasant experiences' on the 360 and is basically just a Microsoft-basher now. Which baffles me because that's the platform that...oh gee, I don't know...actually made him into a somebody.

It's people like Jonathan Blow that make me hate indie devs.

Click to expand...

Jon is just a whiner, and while everything he says must be taken with a grain of salt, his point regarding the XO cloud servers are very valid.

Microsoft said 300,000 servers. Never said physical servers, its a valid concern. I can have 10 digital servers in a single hardware. The lack of specification by microsoft's part is what he was complaining about, and hes not wrong on that one

INDIE developer Jonathan Blow is taking advantage of the memory and using 5GB of memory for his indie game Witness. You think he with his tiny team are taking advantage of the memory while others will not? Also he was criticized for being extremely lazy for his using that much memory, and having too many assets stored in memory and not being tighter with his memory usage.

Remember, this is the same guy that tried to tell us XO's cloud server claims are a lie. Even though we've already had multiple developers who are actually using it show us otherwise. He has also recently talked about 'unpleasant experiences' on the 360 and is basically just a Microsoft-basher now. Which baffles me because that's the platform that...oh gee, I don't know...actually made him into a somebody.

It's people like Jonathan Blow that make me hate indie devs.

Click to expand...

Jon is just a whiner, and while everything he says must be taken with a grain of salt, his point regarding the XO cloud servers are very valid.

Microsoft said 300,000 servers. Never said physical servers, its a valid concern. I can have 10 digital servers in a single hardware. The lack of specification by microsoft's part is what he was complaining about, and hes not wrong on that one

Click to expand...

The Ireland datacenter alone has 100,000+ physical servers. With another $700+m being pumped into the system soon. It's not exactly hard to believe that there will be 300,000+ server in the system in the next couple years.

Also, it's cloud computing. No shit it's going to have virtual servers. We didn't need Jon the indie developer to whine like a little bitch to know that.

Aside from that, what the hell does it matter? Virtual or not, it's proven to be more than capable of providing developers the tools they need. It's not a concern at all.

INDIE developer Jonathan Blow is taking advantage of the memory and using 5GB of memory for his indie game Witness. You think he with his tiny team are taking advantage of the memory while others will not? Also he was criticized for being extremely lazy for his using that much memory, and having too many assets stored in memory and not being tighter with his memory usage.

Remember, this is the same guy that tried to tell us XO's cloud server claims are a lie. Even though we've already had multiple developers who are actually using it show us otherwise. He has also recently talked about 'unpleasant experiences' on the 360 and is basically just a Microsoft-basher now. Which baffles me because that's the platform that...oh gee, I don't know...actually made him into a somebody.

It's people like Jonathan Blow that make me hate indie devs.

Click to expand...

Then what about the developer that's doing the PS4 port of The Crew?

They openly gushed about how the PS4 would allow them to add all kinds of additional effects and features, but the only thing holding them back was that the versions had to have parity.

The next gen hasn't even started and we're already carrying this negative perception of developers into it as if they haven't been doing their best with what they have. Now they have more than they could ever ask for...at the moment...and haven't had a chance to stretch their legs before we're calling them lazy.

As for Blow, you'd think he'd be the most qualified to bash Microsoft having dealt with them first...solely...only to be courted by Sony later down the line and shown a completely different development experience. Just because you get rich and famous under some entity doesn't mean it was a pleasant experience. If he had a bad time and didn't like Microsoft's handling, he's more than qualified to share that. Why is that worthy of hate...?

Remember, this is the same guy that tried to tell us XO's cloud server claims are a lie. Even though we've already had multiple developers who are actually using it show us otherwise. He has also recently talked about 'unpleasant experiences' on the 360 and is basically just a Microsoft-basher now. Which baffles me because that's the platform that...oh gee, I don't know...actually made him into a somebody.

It's people like Jonathan Blow that make me hate indie devs.

Click to expand...

Jon is just a whiner, and while everything he says must be taken with a grain of salt, his point regarding the XO cloud servers are very valid.

Microsoft said 300,000 servers. Never said physical servers, its a valid concern. I can have 10 digital servers in a single hardware. The lack of specification by microsoft's part is what he was complaining about, and hes not wrong on that one

Click to expand...

The Ireland datacenter alone has 100,000+ physical servers. With another $700+m being pumped into the system soon. It's not exactly hard to believe that there will be 300,000+ server in the system in the next couple years.

Also, it's cloud computing. No shit it's going to have virtual servers. We didn't need Jon the indie developer to whine like a little bitch to know that.

Aside from that, what the hell does it matter? Virtual or not, it's proven to be more than capable of providing developers the tools they need. It's not a concern at all.

Click to expand...

Well, its kinda sugar coating if you say you got 300k, but not 300k physical. Not saying thats the case, since I do not have knowledge on MS cloud, just saying they should have clarified.

Its not about being capable enough though, thats something neither me or jon ever doubted, MS is full of money for that.

I agree for multiplat games. Unless its something like taking shortcuts on porting it.

First party will take advantage of it.

Click to expand...

So wait, 3rd party studios are going to make unique features utilizing Kinect2.0 and SmartGlass but aren't going to take advantage of PS4's greater accessible memory....

Many games took advantage of the hardware differences last gen. Assassin's Creed and Battlefield were two examples.

Click to expand...

PS4 has SmartGlass, it just hasn't been released yet in the same way that as of now SmartGlass doesn't actually do squat aside from tell you who is online. So that will be supported.

Kinect is different, they might throw in some of the features that they have on Kinect if the eye is capable. I can see the Eye being able to put your face in the game like Kinect can considering it has facial recognition software.

I hope they take advantage of the memory but we'll have to wait and see.

Click to expand...

Microsoft's SmartGlass actually does quite a bit. You can get additional information about in-game content, you can control your console and alter your profile/console settings. Games will be adding second screen functionality. That's quite a bit more than "squat"...

All this means is multiplatform games will be gimped in order accommodate the X1 hardware. Might see the advantage in exclusives but that's about it. Or maybe this means multiplatform games will be superior much like the 360 games were due to higher RAM. Regardless, no multiplatform game will have considerable differences on PS3/X1 due to the engine being built with both in mind.

INDIE developer Jonathan Blow is taking advantage of the memory and using 5GB of memory for his indie game Witness. You think he with his tiny team are taking advantage of the memory while others will not? Also he was criticized for being extremely lazy for his using that much memory, and having too many assets stored in memory and not being tighter with his memory usage.

Remember, this is the same guy that tried to tell us XO's cloud server claims are a lie. Even though we've already had multiple developers who are actually using it show us otherwise. He has also recently talked about 'unpleasant experiences' on the 360 and is basically just a Microsoft-basher now. Which baffles me because that's the platform that...oh gee, I don't know...actually made him into a somebody.

It's people like Jonathan Blow that make me hate indie devs.

Click to expand...

Then what about the developer that's doing the PS4 port of The Crew?

They openly gushed about how the PS4 would allow them to add all kinds of additional effects and features, but the only thing holding them back was that the versions had to have parity.

The next gen hasn't even started and we're already carrying this negative perception of developers into it as if they haven't been doing their best with what they have. Now they have more than they could ever ask for...at the moment...and haven't had a chance to stretch their legs before we're calling them lazy.

As for Blow, you'd think he'd be the most qualified to bash Microsoft having dealt with them first...solely...only to be courted by Sony later down the line and shown a completely different development experience. Just because you get rich and famous under some entity doesn't mean it was a pleasant experience. If he had a bad time and didn't like Microsoft's handling, he's more than qualified to share that. Why is that worthy of hate...?

Click to expand...

Let's think about this logically. PCs now days have 8+GB of ram as well, very commonly in fact. Yet very few games on PC use over 4GB. Most not even close to that. What makes you think they will start using that much now? I can't even fathom how poorly engineered a game must be to utilize that much memory at any given time. The only lead to is a notion that developers don't have to worry about optimizing memory, because shit...we're barely even using 6GB without it. Except for there is one key thing that also comes along with optimizing your memory, bug fixes. Specifically memory leaks, but other fixes do as well. If developers go in with the mind set that 'we have 8GB of memory, why bother optimizing our shit', that's just going to lead to more buggy games, not better games. Assets that used 6GB of memory vs the same assets that used 3GB of memory after optimized will be essentially be the exact same when it comes to the end result.

As for Blow, he's full of shit. If he didn't like how MS was handling things, why the fuck did he do business with them in the first place!? That's what I hate most about indie devs. They make one semi-good game and they think they are some gaming god. Talking shit about this. Tweeting things about that. Criticizing this. As if everyone magically gives a fuck what they think. 'Gah, I hate MS and how they handle things, but I'm not smart enough to end my business with them there. Oh no, lets release a game first so I can make a lot of money, then I'll turn my back on you and spout off a bunch of shit about the experience.' Seriously, fuck off already. Far less people give a shit about what you say than you think.

Jon is just a whiner, and while everything he says must be taken with a grain of salt, his point regarding the XO cloud servers are very valid.

Microsoft said 300,000 servers. Never said physical servers, its a valid concern. I can have 10 digital servers in a single hardware. The lack of specification by microsoft's part is what he was complaining about, and hes not wrong on that one

Click to expand...

The Ireland datacenter alone has 100,000+ physical servers. With another $700+m being pumped into the system soon. It's not exactly hard to believe that there will be 300,000+ server in the system in the next couple years.

Also, it's cloud computing. No shit it's going to have virtual servers. We didn't need Jon the indie developer to whine like a little bitch to know that.

Aside from that, what the hell does it matter? Virtual or not, it's proven to be more than capable of providing developers the tools they need. It's not a concern at all.

Click to expand...

Well, its kinda sugar coating if you say you got 300k, but not 300k physical. Not saying thats the case, since I do not have knowledge on MS cloud, just saying they should have clarified.

Its not about being capable enough though, thats something neither me or jon ever doubted, MS is full of money for that.

Click to expand...

Why should they have to clarify? That's not the point they were trying to make at all. Does anyone here actually give a fuck about how many servers MS actually has, or do you only care about the capabilities that their servers provide? I'm guess most only care about the latter. It's sad that people get so caught up on the single individual words being said, instead of the message they are trying getting across.

Remember, this is the same guy that tried to tell us XO's cloud server claims are a lie. Even though we've already had multiple developers who are actually using it show us otherwise. He has also recently talked about 'unpleasant experiences' on the 360 and is basically just a Microsoft-basher now. Which baffles me because that's the platform that...oh gee, I don't know...actually made him into a somebody.

It's people like Jonathan Blow that make me hate indie devs.

Click to expand...

Then what about the developer that's doing the PS4 port of The Crew?

They openly gushed about how the PS4 would allow them to add all kinds of additional effects and features, but the only thing holding them back was that the versions had to have parity.

The next gen hasn't even started and we're already carrying this negative perception of developers into it as if they haven't been doing their best with what they have. Now they have more than they could ever ask for...at the moment...and haven't had a chance to stretch their legs before we're calling them lazy.

As for Blow, you'd think he'd be the most qualified to bash Microsoft having dealt with them first...solely...only to be courted by Sony later down the line and shown a completely different development experience. Just because you get rich and famous under some entity doesn't mean it was a pleasant experience. If he had a bad time and didn't like Microsoft's handling, he's more than qualified to share that. Why is that worthy of hate...?

Click to expand...

Let's think about this logically. PCs now days have 8+GB of ram as well, very commonly in fact. Yet very few games on PC use over 4GB. Most not even close to that. What makes you think they will start using that much now? I can't even fathom how poorly engineered a game must be to utilize that much memory at any given time. The only lead to is a notion that developers don't have to worry about optimizing memory, because shit...we're barely even using 6GB without it. Except for there is one key thing that also comes along with optimizing your memory, bug fixes. Specifically memory leaks, but other fixes do as well. If developers go in with the mind set that 'we have 8GB of memory, why bother optimizing our shit', that's just going to lead to more buggy games, not better games. Assets that used 6GB of memory vs the same assets that used 3GB of memory after optimized will be essentially be the exact same when it comes to the end result.

As for Blow, he's full of shit. If he didn't like how MS was handling things, why the fuck did he do business with them in the first place!? That's what I hate most about indie devs. They make one semi-good game and they think they are some gaming god. Talking shit about this. Tweeting things about that. Criticizing this. As if everyone magically gives a fuck what they think. 'Gah, I hate MS and how they handle things, but I'm not smart enough to end my business with them there. Oh no, lets release a game first so I can make a lot of money, then I'll turn my back on you and spout off a bunch of shit about the experience.' Seriously, fuck off already. Far less people give a shit about what you say than you think.

Click to expand...

For Blow as well as anyone signing a binding contract with an entity for the first time, you never really know what you're getting into until the ink has dried and the claws come out.

As for PC RAM usage, wasn't the primary complaint this gen (Most gens really) from PC gamers that consoles were holding PC gaming back with inferior hardware that developers cater to rather than programming for PC and porting down? I heard A LOT of this when Bethesda focused on the console experience for Skyrim. Now, consoles have upped the ante and offer as much RAM as PC, yet people are saying it's overkill and games don't need it? Sounds like another hypocritical complaint to me, no offense.

A journey of a thousand miles. You just said that PC games are using 4GB of RAM. Do you think gaming is going to stop there? Games won't get bigger, more complex, nuanced, dynamic, more physics, richer/smarter AI, more dialogue, higher resolution assets? Would you prefer a scenario where games require greater specs and the hardware trails behind or this current situation where there is more hardware than necessary and gaming can expand?

The assumption you're carrying is that things won't get bigger and more stuff won't get packed. You're looking at it like the only way to utilize those specs is to be inefficient and wasteful. That is not the only way and we would do well to be a little more optimistic about what CAN BE done with more headroom than what's already being done or what hasn't been done.

Eventually games will need those resources and we're fortunate enough that they will already be in place well in advance. Look to the future, look for growth...

Won't happen this generation. Also, in my opinion, the features Xbox has shown me that their OS will be using that 3GB of ram for far outweigh what any developer can offer me going from 5GB to 7GB of ram used for their game.

Won't happen this generation. Also, in my opinion, the features Xbox has shown me that their OS will be using that 3GB of ram for far outweigh what any developer can offer me going from 5GB to 7GB of ram used for their game.

Click to expand...

To be fair, it's 3 OSes using 1GB each in concert.

If voice control over your television is more thrilling than games, more power to you...

Won't happen this generation. Also, in my opinion, the features Xbox has shown me that their OS will be using that 3GB of ram for far outweigh what any developer can offer me going from 5GB to 7GB of ram used for their game.

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To be fair, it's 3 OSes using 1GB each in concert.

If voice control over your television is more thrilling than games, more power to you...

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The ability to be able to open/run additional apps is a huge deal for me. I fucking despise that every time I want to do the slightest thing on my PS3, I have to exit my game. That is such a poor user experience for me.

Also, I'd be surprised if they are using 3GB right off the bat. MS knows that in the future they will expand the OS. So they are probably just reserving space for that. Which I hope Sony is also doing, because XMB should have been overhauled a long time ago. It is so outdated, but they can't do much about it because they didn't create reserves. You can't just use more ram either, because then you risk incompatibility with games.

Won't happen this generation. Also, in my opinion, the features Xbox has shown me that their OS will be using that 3GB of ram for far outweigh what any developer can offer me going from 5GB to 7GB of ram used for their game.

Click to expand...

To be fair, it's 3 OSes using 1GB each in concert.

If voice control over your television is more thrilling than games, more power to you...

Click to expand...

The ability to be able to open/run additional apps is a huge deal for me. I fucking despise that every time I want to do the slightest thing on my PS3, I have to exit my game. That is such a poor user experience for me.

Also, I'd be surprised if they are using 3GB right off the bat. MS knows that in the future they will expand the OS. So they are probably just reserving space for that. Which I hope Sony is also doing, because XMB should have been overhauled a long time ago. It is so outdated, but they can't do much about it because they didn't create reserves. You can't just use more ram either, because then you risk incompatibility with games.

Click to expand...

Sony has apparently fixed that issue.

You can suspend your game and do other things such as background downloads and installations, upload videos, maneuver through your XMB or whatever menu they use now. There was a video all about this...

If voice control over your television is more thrilling than games, more power to you...

Click to expand...

The ability to be able to open/run additional apps is a huge deal for me. I fucking despise that every time I want to do the slightest thing on my PS3, I have to exit my game. That is such a poor user experience for me.

Also, I'd be surprised if they are using 3GB right off the bat. MS knows that in the future they will expand the OS. So they are probably just reserving space for that. Which I hope Sony is also doing, because XMB should have been overhauled a long time ago. It is so outdated, but they can't do much about it because they didn't create reserves. You can't just use more ram either, because then you risk incompatibility with games.

Click to expand...

Sony has apparently fixed that issue.

You can suspend your game and do other things such as background downloads and installations, upload videos, maneuver through your XMB or whatever menu they use now. There was a video all about this...

Click to expand...

I'm sure they did for the PS4. That doesn't help me on the PS3 though. Vita is vastly better than my PS3 with that. I play those two systems and it baffles me how they could let the situation be that the PS3 remain so primitive.

The ability to be able to open/run additional apps is a huge deal for me. I fucking despise that every time I want to do the slightest thing on my PS3, I have to exit my game. That is such a poor user experience for me.

Also, I'd be surprised if they are using 3GB right off the bat. MS knows that in the future they will expand the OS. So they are probably just reserving space for that. Which I hope Sony is also doing, because XMB should have been overhauled a long time ago. It is so outdated, but they can't do much about it because they didn't create reserves. You can't just use more ram either, because then you risk incompatibility with games.

Click to expand...

Sony has apparently fixed that issue.

You can suspend your game and do other things such as background downloads and installations, upload videos, maneuver through your XMB or whatever menu they use now. There was a video all about this...

Click to expand...

I'm sure they did for the PS4. That doesn't help me on the PS3 though. Vita is vastly better than my PS3 with that. I play those two systems and it baffles me how they could let the situation be that the PS3 remain so primitive.

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Why are you fixated on PS3 when we're talking about next gen systems...?

You can suspend your game and do other things such as background downloads and installations, upload videos, maneuver through your XMB or whatever menu they use now. There was a video all about this...

Click to expand...

I'm sure they did for the PS4. That doesn't help me on the PS3 though. Vita is vastly better than my PS3 with that. I play those two systems and it baffles me how they could let the situation be that the PS3 remain so primitive.

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Why are you fixated on PS3 when we're talking about next gen systems...?

Click to expand...

What else should I base my expectations of a future system on, if not the past system?

The Ireland datacenter alone has 100,000+ physical servers. With another $700+m being pumped into the system soon. It's not exactly hard to believe that there will be 300,000+ server in the system in the next couple years.

Also, it's cloud computing. No shit it's going to have virtual servers. We didn't need Jon the indie developer to whine like a little bitch to know that.

Aside from that, what the hell does it matter? Virtual or not, it's proven to be more than capable of providing developers the tools they need. It's not a concern at all.

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Well, its kinda sugar coating if you say you got 300k, but not 300k physical. Not saying thats the case, since I do not have knowledge on MS cloud, just saying they should have clarified.

Its not about being capable enough though, thats something neither me or jon ever doubted, MS is full of money for that.

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Why should they have to clarify? That's not the point they were trying to make at all. Does anyone here actually give a fuck about how many servers MS actually has, or do you only care about the capabilities that their servers provide? I'm guess most only care about the latter. It's sad that people get so caught up on the single individual words being said, instead of the message they are trying getting across.

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Why they should clarify? Because it comes as dishonesty by not doing so.

Sony can come out next month and say they have 1 fucking million servers if they make loads of digital ones, and that will make them seen to have the better online infraestructure, while we know that is untrue.

Do you think the consumer knows the capabilities? They just see the numbers and go. "WOW, 300k THAT SHIT IS BETTER THAN THAT OTHER COMPANY THAT HAVES ONLY 100K".

Off course you remember blast processing right?

The message that is sent across is that microsoft haves a nice online scheme set up, and the message received is to compare with the concorrence.

I heard gaikai haves 30k physical servers, lets say Azure is 200k physical and 100k digital. With microsoft saying they have 300k servers, and people knowing gaikai haves 30k, what do you honestly think is the consumer judgement? "OMFG Microsoft 10 times the better internet!!111!!11!!!" obviously.

Well, its kinda sugar coating if you say you got 300k, but not 300k physical. Not saying thats the case, since I do not have knowledge on MS cloud, just saying they should have clarified.

Its not about being capable enough though, thats something neither me or jon ever doubted, MS is full of money for that.

Click to expand...

Why should they have to clarify? That's not the point they were trying to make at all. Does anyone here actually give a fuck about how many servers MS actually has, or do you only care about the capabilities that their servers provide? I'm guess most only care about the latter. It's sad that people get so caught up on the single individual words being said, instead of the message they are trying getting across.

Click to expand...

Why they should clarify? Because it comes as dishonesty by not doing so.

Sony can come out next month and say they have 1 fucking million servers if they make loads of digital ones, and that will make them seen to have the better online infraestructure, while we know that is untrue.

Do you think the consumer knows the capabilities? They just see the numbers and go. "WOW, 300k THAT SHIT IS BETTER THAN THAT OTHER COMPANY THAT HAVES ONLY 100K".

Off course you remember blast processing right?

The message that is sent across is that microsoft haves a nice online scheme set up, and the message received is to compare with the concorrence.

I heard gaikai haves 30k physical servers, lets say Azure is 200k physical and 100k digital. With microsoft saying they have 300k servers, and people knowing gaikai haves 30k, what do you honestly think is the consumer judgement? "OMFG Microsoft 10 times the better internet!!111!!11!!!" obviously.

Its misleading.

Click to expand...

It's not misleading if you know how Azure works. It's really not misleading at all, because again, that's not the point they are making. You're just choosing to get caught up in a number.

Not dishonest at all if they have 300k servers. Again, do the math. 100k servers in just one data center alone. I believe they are up to seven data centers now that are being used for Azure. Why the hell is 300k servers so hard to believe to you, exactly?

Why should they have to clarify? That's not the point they were trying to make at all. Does anyone here actually give a fuck about how many servers MS actually has, or do you only care about the capabilities that their servers provide? I'm guess most only care about the latter. It's sad that people get so caught up on the single individual words being said, instead of the message they are trying getting across.

Click to expand...

Why they should clarify? Because it comes as dishonesty by not doing so.

Sony can come out next month and say they have 1 fucking million servers if they make loads of digital ones, and that will make them seen to have the better online infraestructure, while we know that is untrue.

Do you think the consumer knows the capabilities? They just see the numbers and go. "WOW, 300k THAT SHIT IS BETTER THAN THAT OTHER COMPANY THAT HAVES ONLY 100K".

Off course you remember blast processing right?

The message that is sent across is that microsoft haves a nice online scheme set up, and the message received is to compare with the concorrence.

I heard gaikai haves 30k physical servers, lets say Azure is 200k physical and 100k digital. With microsoft saying they have 300k servers, and people knowing gaikai haves 30k, what do you honestly think is the consumer judgement? "OMFG Microsoft 10 times the better internet!!111!!11!!!" obviously.

Its misleading.

Click to expand...

It's not misleading if you know how Azure works. It's really not misleading at all, because again, that's not the point they are making. You're just choosing to get caught up in a number.

Not dishonest at all if they have 300k servers. Again, do the math. 100k servers in just one data center alone. I believe they are up to seven data centers now that are being used for Azure. Why the hell is 300k servers so hard to believe to you, exactly?

Click to expand...

And you think the consumers know how azure works?

It is misleading to say you have 300k servers when a lot of them are not physical. I am not saying this is the case, since I do not have the knowledge on this.

We are talking a hyphotetical case obviously, just like saying all the servers are physical is a hyphothesis too, because nothing official has been said regarding that,

Also, it doesn't fucking matter the point they are trying to make, what matters is the point the consumer receives. I'm not choosing to get caught up in a number. Consumers like numbers.

Again, its not a matter of me believing in it or not, I was defending Jon's statement that saying 300k servers without specifying might be bullshit.

Why they should clarify? Because it comes as dishonesty by not doing so.

Sony can come out next month and say they have 1 fucking million servers if they make loads of digital ones, and that will make them seen to have the better online infraestructure, while we know that is untrue.

Do you think the consumer knows the capabilities? They just see the numbers and go. "WOW, 300k THAT SHIT IS BETTER THAN THAT OTHER COMPANY THAT HAVES ONLY 100K".

Off course you remember blast processing right?

The message that is sent across is that microsoft haves a nice online scheme set up, and the message received is to compare with the concorrence.

I heard gaikai haves 30k physical servers, lets say Azure is 200k physical and 100k digital. With microsoft saying they have 300k servers, and people knowing gaikai haves 30k, what do you honestly think is the consumer judgement? "OMFG Microsoft 10 times the better internet!!111!!11!!!" obviously.

Its misleading.

Click to expand...

It's not misleading if you know how Azure works. It's really not misleading at all, because again, that's not the point they are making. You're just choosing to get caught up in a number.

Not dishonest at all if they have 300k servers. Again, do the math. 100k servers in just one data center alone. I believe they are up to seven data centers now that are being used for Azure. Why the hell is 300k servers so hard to believe to you, exactly?

Click to expand...

And you think the consumers know how azure works?

It is misleading to say you have 300k servers when a lot of them are not physical. I am not saying this is the case, since I do not have the knowledge on this.

We are talking a hyphotetical case obviously, just like saying all the servers are physical is a hyphothesis too, because nothing official has been said regarding that,

Also, it doesn't fucking matter the point they are trying to make, what matters is the point the consumer receives. I'm not choosing to get caught up in a number. Consumers like numbers.

Again, its not a matter of me believing in it or not, I was defending Jon's statement that saying 300k servers without specifying might be bullshit.

Click to expand...

But if you don't even know that's the case, what does it matter?

That's the problem with gamers, they care about the silliest shit. For example, a couple weeks ago news broke that it's now a fact that 50% of gamers are female. Articles spread like wildfire and I just sat here wonder 'who gives a shit?!' Unless you are a game developer, or publisher, or in marketing, this information means absolutely nothing to you. These statistics don't change your life in any way, not in the slightest. Do you think people on the BMW forums sit around and wonder how many BMW owners are female? No! No other community other than gamers would make as big of a deal about something so minute and unimportant. It doesn't change the way you play, buy, enjoy games. Yet for some reason they feel the need to have discussions up the ying yang about it on message boards.

So wait, multiplatform titlesSo wait, 3rd party studios are going to make unique features utilizing Kinect2.0 and SmartGlass but aren't going to take advantage of PS4's greater accessible memory....

Many games took advantage of the hardware differences last gen. Assassin's Creed and Battlefield were two examples.

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PS4 has SmartGlass, it just hasn't been released yet in the same way that as of now SmartGlass doesn't actually do squat aside from tell you who is online. So that will be supported.

Kinect is different, they might throw in some of the features that they have on Kinect if the eye is capable. I can see the Eye being able to put your face in the game like Kinect can considering it has facial recognition software.

I hope they take advantage of the memory but we'll have to wait and see.

Click to expand...

Microsoft's SmartGlass actually does quite a bit. You can get additional information about in-game content, you can control your console and alter your profile/console settings. Games will be adding second screen functionality. That's quite a bit more than "squat"...

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Thats not what I meant, I know they're adding the cool features with the Xbox One, but as of now, its essentially "Xbox.com the app". What I meant the PS4 "SmartGlass" app will launch with the PS4 just like SmartGlass will get upgraded with the X1 launch. I wasn't insinuating that SmartGlass will suck.

I'm sure they did for the PS4. That doesn't help me on the PS3 though. Vita is vastly better than my PS3 with that. I play those two systems and it baffles me how they could let the situation be that the PS3 remain so primitive.

Click to expand...

Why are you fixated on PS3 when we're talking about next gen systems...?

Click to expand...

What else should I base my expectations of a future system on, if not the past system?

Click to expand...

They've shown what the future can do.

When newer, more compelling evidence has been presented, older, outdated information is to be abandoned...

It's not misleading if you know how Azure works. It's really not misleading at all, because again, that's not the point they are making. You're just choosing to get caught up in a number.

Not dishonest at all if they have 300k servers. Again, do the math. 100k servers in just one data center alone. I believe they are up to seven data centers now that are being used for Azure. Why the hell is 300k servers so hard to believe to you, exactly?

Click to expand...

And you think the consumers know how azure works?

It is misleading to say you have 300k servers when a lot of them are not physical. I am not saying this is the case, since I do not have the knowledge on this.

We are talking a hyphotetical case obviously, just like saying all the servers are physical is a hyphothesis too, because nothing official has been said regarding that,

Also, it doesn't fucking matter the point they are trying to make, what matters is the point the consumer receives. I'm not choosing to get caught up in a number. Consumers like numbers.

Again, its not a matter of me believing in it or not, I was defending Jon's statement that saying 300k servers without specifying might be bullshit.

Click to expand...

But if you don't even know that's the case, what does it matter?

That's the problem with gamers, they care about the silliest shit. For example, a couple weeks ago news broke that it's now a fact that 50% of gamers are female. Articles spread like wildfire and I just sat here wonder 'who gives a shit?!' Unless you are a game developer, or publisher, or in marketing, this information means absolutely nothing to you. These statistics don't change your life in any way, not in the slightest. Do you think people on the BMW forums sit around and wonder how many BMW owners are female? No! No other community other than gamers would make as big of a deal about something so minute and unimportant. It doesn't change the way you play, buy, enjoy games. Yet for some reason they feel the need to have discussions up the ying yang about it on message boards.

Click to expand...

What? I didn't even say I care about this. I am explaining to you why jon's argument makes sense and is valid.

Why do you even wrote that? That doesn't even have to do with the discussion. Its not about making a deal of anything, if anything you are making a deal out of jon blow's talking bad about MS.

Why are you fixated on PS3 when we're talking about next gen systems...?

Click to expand...

What else should I base my expectations of a future system on, if not the past system?

Click to expand...

They've shown what the future can do.

When newer, more compelling evidence has been presented, older, outdated information is to be abandoned...

Click to expand...

no vega you're being silly.

with the ps4 we should base our expectations on the ps3 user experience! not what they've shown what we can expect
with the xboxone we should base our expectations based on a clean slate regardless of the past and instead base it all on the grand promises that microsoft is showing.

It is misleading to say you have 300k servers when a lot of them are not physical. I am not saying this is the case, since I do not have the knowledge on this.

We are talking a hyphotetical case obviously, just like saying all the servers are physical is a hyphothesis too, because nothing official has been said regarding that,

Also, it doesn't fucking matter the point they are trying to make, what matters is the point the consumer receives. I'm not choosing to get caught up in a number. Consumers like numbers.

Again, its not a matter of me believing in it or not, I was defending Jon's statement that saying 300k servers without specifying might be bullshit.

Click to expand...

But if you don't even know that's the case, what does it matter?

That's the problem with gamers, they care about the silliest shit. For example, a couple weeks ago news broke that it's now a fact that 50% of gamers are female. Articles spread like wildfire and I just sat here wonder 'who gives a shit?!' Unless you are a game developer, or publisher, or in marketing, this information means absolutely nothing to you. These statistics don't change your life in any way, not in the slightest. Do you think people on the BMW forums sit around and wonder how many BMW owners are female? No! No other community other than gamers would make as big of a deal about something so minute and unimportant. It doesn't change the way you play, buy, enjoy games. Yet for some reason they feel the need to have discussions up the ying yang about it on message boards.

Click to expand...

What? I didn't even say I care about this. I am explaining to you why jon's argument makes sense and is valid.

Why do you even wrote that? That doesn't even have to do with the discussion. Its not about making a deal of anything, if anything you are making a deal out of jon blow's talking bad about MS.

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Right, except it doesn't make sense at all and isn't valid. He's just being a whiny bitch, spewing off shit he knows absolutely nothing about.