oneman56 wrote:I don't really understand this signing and it's not because Andre Roberts is a bad player or anything but more so because of need and money available. Perhaps our FO and coaching staff isn't high on Malcolm Jenkins or Antoine Bethea but for 16 million (Jenkins) i'd rather have a starting caliber safety than a marginal starting caliber WR. Our issues on defense, to me, far outweigh offensive skill position needs. I don't know, just seems odd but they obviously feel like our 2nd WR spot is a critical need. I'm not saying we should've signed Malcolm Jenkins either, but for 16 million i'd have rather had a safety who could start or put that money toward one. I hope Andre proves me wrong.

- We all went a saftey, do you think that they didn't want a safety? Who's to say that we didn't make Mitchell a better offer than whomever he signed with but that he simply didn't want to be here...? - According to ey, all receivers not named Garcon had issues beating the jam last year. Which forced RGIII/Kirk to hold the ball too long. Which in turn made a struggling offensive line, look even worse. - It isn't just that WR is a need, playmakers are a need.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I also think no matter who the coaches are, Aldrick Robinson is a bust, and will never be sure handed, it's a shame we can't take Robinson's speed and give him Hankerson's size and catching ability..........I think by the end of this season Robinson and Hankerson will be gone along with Moss.

Yes, because Hankerson is sure-handed.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:My only issue really is why sign Moss back? He is clearly too old now and has lost his speed and seems to no longer make the sure catches he used to make. If you can't get open and have problems catching why take up cap space?

Players are signed to contracts and released prior to the season often, what's the problem?

riggofan wrote:Tom Lavarro was driving me nuts on the radio this morning with this stuff. Nobody disagrees that we need a safety, but it doesn't change the fact that we have a bunch of other positions to fill.

He's garbage and does nothing but complain. I cut it off. He needs someone else on air with him to balance him out.

riggofan wrote:Tom Lavarro was driving me nuts on the radio this morning with this stuff. Nobody disagrees that we need a safety, but it doesn't change the fact that we have a bunch of other positions to fill.

He's garbage and does nothing but complain. I cut it off. He needs someone else on air with him to balance him out.

All of these guys have been killing Snyder for YEARS for being an idiot in free agency, chasing and overpaying every big name out there. Then when the team shows some restraint, they kill them for that. The local media is just all around the worst. Its clear for most of them that their only job is to rile the fan base up and get people complaining.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------"You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax"We’re winning off the field, but we’ve got to start winning on the field." - Bruce Allen

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:Roberts is a hungry player with something to prove - exactly the type of guy we should be going for. He's had his nose put out of joint after being dropped to #3 WR after doing well the previous year when the Cardinals had Larry, Curly, Moe & Shemp at QB at various times. I think he'll rise to the challenge and be a legitimate #2 this season, better production than what Morgan gave us in that role anyhow.

Remember, we have a potential star at WR in Robinson, the new coaching staff may fell they are able to take him up to the next level in which case he'll be a major threat with that speed.

Moss is back, he'll be great in the red zone and he'll be a positive influence on Roberts and the WR or WRs we draft - who will replace him in 2015.

What makes you think Moss will be great in the red zone? He has no size, no speed. I would prefer our Tight ends over Moss in the Red Zone. I also think no matter who the coaches are, Aldrick Robinson is a bust, and will never be sure handed, it's a shame we can't take Robinson's speed and give him Hankerson's size and catching ability..........I think by the end of this season Robinson and Hankerson will be gone along with Moss.

Well Moss has great hands, runs tight routes, you can throw him the ball over his shoulder and he'll catch it, can get seperation in short routes, and can operate in tight corners of the end zone better than any of our other WRs - including probably Garcon.

Not ideal to still need him, I agree, he's lost some pace but he can still contribute as what he has in his head is worth a lot.

Robinson may well be a bust, but different coaching MAY transform him (long shot, but worth a go. I'd investigate him further if I was a new HC) and Hankerson may not be ready until the season is well under way, so keep Moss around.

I agree with you though that there's a good chance all three wont be around for 2015.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:oneman56 wrote:I don't really understand this signing and it's not because Andre Roberts is a bad player or anything but more so because of need and money available. Perhaps our FO and coaching staff isn't high on Malcolm Jenkins or Antoine Bethea but for 16 million (Jenkins) i'd rather have a starting caliber safety than a marginal starting caliber WR. Our issues on defense, to me, far outweigh offensive skill position needs. I don't know, just seems odd but they obviously feel like our 2nd WR spot is a critical need. I'm not saying we should've signed Malcolm Jenkins either, but for 16 million i'd have rather had a safety who could start or put that money toward one. I hope Andre proves me wrong.

- We all went a saftey, do you think that they didn't want a safety? Who's to say that we didn't make Mitchell a better offer than whomever he signed with but that he simply didn't want to be here...?- According to ey, all receivers not named Garcon had issues beating the jam last year. Which forced RGIII/Kirk to hold the ball too long. Which in turn made a struggling offensive line, look even worse. - It isn't just that WR is a need, playmakers are a need.

No, I think they do want a safety and I believe they set a price for Mitchell that the Steelers exceeded. I have no problem with that nor do I have a problem with the idea he may not want to be here.

I don't disagree but the question is, does Roberts help? IMO, that's arguable. I have no way of proving this, I doubt other teams were knocking down these guys door on day 1, but i don't see the rush to sign Roberts and Lavau on the first day of free angency for 32 million dollars. A sum that could've had Linval Joseph, a safety, etc.

I don't disagree, again, i'm just not sold that Roberts is that guy, Carson Palmer threw the ball 572 times last year or more than 100 more attempts than RGIII and yet Roberts put up comparable numbers to Moss whom most people say should be gone.

I'm willing to wait out the FA and i'm not judging yet just simply saying this signing was odd to me, maybe not to you or others. Wrapping up 32 million dollars on two guys that are at best arguably better, not clearly better, than guys we already have is a bit concerning. I'm sure over the course of the next couple months we'll see the full plan and hopefully we can all agree it was a good one but for now, I don't see the need for these signings on day 1. I hope i'm proven wrong.

oneman56 wrote:I don't disagree, again, i'm just not sold that Roberts is that guy, Carson Palmer threw the ball 572 times last year or more than 100 more attempts than RGIII and yet Roberts put up comparable numbers to Moss whom most people say should be gone.

Time will tell. Roberts put up great 2012 stats, maybe there were other reasons for his decline?

oneman56 wrote:I'm willing to wait out the FA and i'm not judging yet just simply saying this signing was odd to me, maybe not to you or others. Wrapping up 32 million dollars on two guys that are at best arguably better, not clearly better, than guys we already have is a bit concerning. I'm sure over the course of the next couple months we'll see the full plan and hopefully we can all agree it was a good one but for now, I don't see the need for these signings on day 1. I hope i'm proven wrong.

Not trying to beat up on you or anything, but I just don't get what you're complaining about exactly. We're clearly not spending 32 million dollars on these guys this year. Roberts, for example, is like $4m/year with an out after two. Their cap numbers this year aren't preventing us from signing other players. And if the team liked them, could get them at the price they wanted, why wouldn't they sign them on day one?

I agree with you that we're going to have to wait and see on Andre Roberts. He literally might be just a younger Santana Moss like you wrote. I just don't see the need for much hand wringing over him. He's a lot less risk than signing Kenny Britt. And most of the reaction I've seen and read on him has been that this was a solid move. Here is what SI wrote yesterday if it makes you feel any better:

oneman56 wrote:I don't disagree, again, i'm just not sold that Roberts is that guy, Carson Palmer threw the ball 572 times last year or more than 100 more attempts than RGIII and yet Roberts put up comparable numbers to Moss whom most people say should be gone.

Time will tell. Roberts put up great 2012 stats, maybe there were other reasons for his decline?

I don't know about a decline. The difference between 2012 and 2013 was that he was the #2 WR in 2012. The Cardinals drafted Michael Floyd in the first round that year, and he became the #2 WR in 2013. Roberts was the #3 last year.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------"You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax"We’re winning off the field, but we’ve got to start winning on the field." - Bruce Allen

oneman56 wrote:I'm willing to wait out the FA and i'm not judging yet just simply saying this signing was odd to me, maybe not to you or others. Wrapping up 32 million dollars on two guys that are at best arguably better, not clearly better, than guys we already have is a bit concerning. I'm sure over the course of the next couple months we'll see the full plan and hopefully we can all agree it was a good one but for now, I don't see the need for these signings on day 1. I hope i'm proven wrong.

Not trying to beat up on you or anything, but I just don't get what you're complaining about exactly. We're clearly not spending 32 million dollars on these guys this year. Roberts, for example, is like $4m/year with an out after two. Their cap numbers this year aren't preventing us from signing other players. And if the team liked them, could get them at the price they wanted, why wouldn't they sign them on day one?

I agree with you that we're going to have to wait and see on Andre Roberts. He literally might be just a younger Santana Moss like you wrote. I just don't see the need for much hand wringing over him. He's a lot less risk than signing Kenny Britt. And most of the reaction I've seen and read on him has been that this was a solid move. Here is what SI wrote yesterday if it makes you feel any better:

I think if you look at some of the comments on these articles, you'll see a lot of Arizona fans saying stuff like "He'll be missed".

It's ok, my feelings aren't hurt. I'm not really trying complain and sorry it's coming across that way. I'm just trying to contribute to the thread and stating that I don't really understand these signings. You're right, we can still sign other players and that these signings aren't preventing that however my contention is that I don't think these signings really improved our team and I don't see the rush for these two guys on day 1. I'd rather the 4 million per year to each of these guys have gone toward a more pressing need or a better upgrade. Does 8 million for Lauvao and Roberts improve our team i guess is my question, to me they don't but we'll see.

I am not entirely sure, but I think I saw a post here that showed Roberts and Moss having like numbers last year. This reflects the mindset that they both are equal. I don't think that is fair. Roberts is still young has a serious upside and still runs in the 4.3-4.4 range. Moss is what 35, no longer has that speed, and based on his last couple years is in a STEEP DECLINE, seems to me he would be better served as an assistant coach at this point, not someone that could eat up more cap space. I also think us keeping him is a mistake, just like I think keeping Fletcher that extra year was a mistake........

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I am not entirely sure, but I think I saw a post here that showed Roberts and Moss having like numbers last year. This reflects the mindset that they both are equal. I don't think that is fair. Roberts is still young has a serious upside and still runs in the 4.3-4.4 range. Moss is what 35, no longer has that speed, and based on his last couple years is in a STEEP DECLINE, seems to me he would be better served as an assistant coach at this point, not someone that could eat up more cap space. I also think us keeping him is a mistake, just like I think keeping Fletcher that extra year was a mistake........

Yeah Moss and Roberts' stats last year were nearly identical, but I agree with what you're saying about their ages and upsides.

I still don't think it was that big a deal to re-sign Moss. He's not a lock to make the roster, still going to have to show he can beat out other players in camp this summer. And whether he makes it or not, I would say the other WRs will benefit from having him there.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------"You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax"We’re winning off the field, but we’ve got to start winning on the field." - Bruce Allen

oneman56 wrote:It's ok, my feelings aren't hurt. I'm not really trying complain and sorry it's coming across that way. I'm just trying to contribute to the thread and stating that I don't really understand these signings. You're right, we can still sign other players and that these signings aren't preventing that however my contention is that I don't think these signings really improved our team and I don't see the rush for these two guys on day 1. I'd rather the 4 million per year to each of these guys have gone toward a more pressing need or a better upgrade. Does 8 million for Lauvao and Roberts improve our team i guess is my question, to me they don't but we'll see.

! Didn't want to come across that I was attacking you or anything.

I get what you're saying about "does $8m improve our team". If it does, its not obvious and we won't know for a while. Not like if we'd signed Jairus Byrd where there would be no question the guy was better than what we had.

With both of these guys I'm really curious where they fit in on the roster and what it means for other guys. Are they hoping Roberts might be the #2 we need?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------"You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax"We’re winning off the field, but we’ve got to start winning on the field." - Bruce Allen

Chris Luva Luva wrote:- We don't have a high enough draft pick to get the top.- Worst case scenario, he's a #3.- Came at a good price.

Unless i'm looking at this wrong.

Nah, kinda how it looked to me too. I still think there's a good chance we could get that big #2 WR we need with our 2d round pick this year, but unlikely you get a rookie who is ready to start and contribute on day one.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------"You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax"We’re winning off the field, but we’ve got to start winning on the field." - Bruce Allen

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:Roberts is a hungry player with something to prove - exactly the type of guy we should be going for. He's had his nose put out of joint after being dropped to #3 WR after doing well the previous year when the Cardinals had Larry, Curly, Moe & Shemp at QB at various times. I think he'll rise to the challenge and be a legitimate #2 this season, better production than what Morgan gave us in that role anyhow.

Remember, we have a potential star at WR in Robinson, the new coaching staff may fell they are able to take him up to the next level in which case he'll be a major threat with that speed.

Moss is back, he'll be great in the red zone and he'll be a positive influence on Roberts and the WR or WRs we draft - who will replace him in 2015.

What makes you think Moss will be great in the red zone? He has no size, no speed. I would prefer our Tight ends over Moss in the Red Zone. I also think no matter who the coaches are, Aldrick Robinson is a bust, and will never be sure handed, it's a shame we can't take Robinson's speed and give him Hankerson's size and catching ability..........I think by the end of this season Robinson and Hankerson will be gone along with Moss.

Moss at one time was one of the fastest guys in the league. He still has plenty of speed and especially quickness. Its not like we signed him to a 100 million dollar contract.

He is still useful in the slot. Also can still strech the field. Still poses a mismatch on most safties. When RG3 gets back his accuracy Moss will look alot better. When you have shorter receivers accuracy is much more important. Taller receivers have more range to grab passes.

Still I hear rumors of Jay Gruden trying to get some of his former Bengals receivers like Andrew Hawkins. Does not mean we wont go after a receiver via the draft either.

How many targets did they get each? Were those numbers similar? Roberts got stuck behind one of the best WRs in the NFL and a 1st round draft pick. Moss was effectively our #2 guy. If Roberts only put up those numbers with near the same number of targets, then maybe there is good reason to be skeptical. But if was doing more with less, relatively speaking, that's a good sign — especially considering his age and physical characteristics.

"I’m never under the assumption that you draft for need. You draft the best available football player on the board. ... Because, in the long run, they are the ones who will help you win the most games." - Scot McCloughan