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The Rational Response Squad is a group of atheist activists who impact society by changing the way we view god belief. This site is a haven for those who are pushing back against the norm, and a place for believers of gods to have their beliefs exposed as false should they want to try their hand at confronting us.

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I'm childless, but I've done a lot of thinking about this topic because of the way my parents treated me. I was pretty much raised in a bubble. I went to church and a fundamentalist Christian school and was not allowed to associate with anyone who wasn't a fundamentalist Christian. I didn't even known what liberal Christians were until I attended a Christian university!

Parents have a right to be themselves, but they don't have a right to dictate their children's beliefs, period. Instead of teaching their children what to think, parents should teach their children how to think. This means teaching the child to think logically.

If I taught my child how to think logically and he or she became a theist, I would continue to love that child. I wouldn't necessarily agree with his or her decision, but once kids hit their teens, they need to start making their own decisions, even if they make some "wrong" ones and are forced to learn from their mistakes the hard way. I was never allowed to do this and as I watch my nephew turn into a young man, I am careful to treat him as much like an adult as I think he can handle. His nutcase fundy mother certainly won't. (I have a feeling the kid is going to be an atheist, BTW.)

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when my son, now 14, began to go to church (his mother's idea,we're divorced) he would occasionally bring up biblical issues. i simply told him that i was atheist and explained what the word meant. nothing more.

over time he prompted numerous discussions about atheism vs theism, entirely on his own. it was difficult, but i avoided outright condemnation of what he was being told in church, and explained as simply as possible why i didn't believe. i always made sure to end every such conversation with "you don't have to believe what i believe. i'll love you no matter what. you're just a little boy with his whole life ahead of him, so don't rush to a conclusion just to please me. listen to all the different points of view, think it over really good, and decide for yourself".

about two years ago he told me he'd made up his mind and he was an atheist. of course his mom hates it, but he's a smart kid who has weighed the evidence, or lack thereof, and found the only logical conslusion. we still talk all the time about religion, but of course now i no longer have to be neutral in the conversation. we happily bash christianity, together.

My mom was protestant and my dad was catholic, so when it came to religion I eventually ended up deciding for myself. My dad's parents guilted them into putting me into catholic private school for a while. After that I went through a number of different religions, since I really hated what I learned in private school. Each change of beliefs my parents were very supportive.

Now that I'm much older and I can run circles around my parents with logic, I think they're becoming more and more atheist. I just quote little absurd passages from the bible every now and then, and they question me about it. For example I once quoted the passage in I Corinth. 11:14 about men with long hair to my dad once, and he replied "but jesus had long hair!" "Yes," I said, "yes he did. So did Samson."

My kid would be taught where religion came from, why people felt they needed it, how little they understood at the time, the false information and the facts about how it was formed and how it has changed, what proof they have (which is basically nothing) of it's authenticity and chances are, they'd likely never be theist. Theism basically stops a thinking mind and many choose it for that reason alone: They don't have to think, just accept.

The problem with theists is that they're taught from the beginning why they SHOULD believe and aren't exposed to reasons why they should NOT. They're taught that by believing in the ideology you can make things fit...it's "just easier to understand," but that's not how reasoning and scientific thought works. Most of theistic reasoning is that "if x exists then n must exist." That's not logical nor is it provable. There's little information at all available that any religion that exists has merit or that any of it's claims are even true. There's more "proof" that the greek gods exist than Jesus.

The fact of the matter is that if more theists asked "why" of the things they believe and analyzed things with kid eyes they'd end up asking logical questions like..."But mommy, why does all of the things that people say Jesus did, Mithras and other gods also did? That doesn't make sense!" Not to mention the fact that even a kid who is taught to understand that if science doesn't explain something knows that making up stories to answer them most definitely isn't the way to go.

If someone ends up being theist who is raised without religion I attribute it to their inability to understand something but few people I've met who were raised without religion ended up being theist. I've encountered so many theists who, when exposed to fact, finally realized that like the "fictional" greek gods so too are all others. It's easy, really, if evidence doesn't support it then there's no point in believing it.

There's a reason atheists spend so much time combating and arguing religion, it's because religion curbs human potential and we only want what's best for a species to thrive at it's fullest capacity. Religion stiffles that on a number of levels.

Flemming Rose:“When [christians] say you are not showing respect, I would say: you are not asking for my respect, you are asking for my submission….”

I have told my son the same thing ever since he was old enough to understand. To me it doesn't matter if he ends up believing or not, but I really want him to learn critical thinking skills and arrive at his own conclusions. As long as he uses reason and critical thinking he will make decisions that are best for him.

I'm soon to be married to my fiancee' who has three children. 10, 7 and 5. The ten year old respects me more than her own father, I show her how the world works. Her favorite subject is science, she is no longer a believer in god. I simply tell her to always critically think about stuff. Never to take anything for granted and to never believe anything anyone says unless you do your own research. She arrived at the conclusion that because there are no monsters under the bed or ghosts, there could not possibly be a god. I told her..are you sure, and she replied.... well it would be silly. Once you start using your mind, it is as simple as 1.2.3 to realize there cannot possibly be a god.

I don't have any kids. And, I have occasionally heard of children of atheists becoming theists, like one of O'Hare's children. I guess I just find it hard to imagine a child of an atheist that wasn't overbearing becoming a theist. I suppose its possible. But, if the situation were to happen, I had a child and he/she was a theist, I think I would be somewhat annoyed, but I don't think I'd go nuts over it.

I guess I just find it hard to imagine a child of an atheist that wasn't overbearing becoming a theist. I suppose its possible.

Unfortunatly I know from expierence that it is possible. Until just the last few weeks I had been a quiet atheist, never talking to anyone about my beliefs except on occasion my theist boyfriend. I decided I wouldn't push my beliefs on my children and have never really talked to them about it. Just recently I came to the realization that that was probably the most harmful, because while I never talked to them about it, others have. And all of them are theists. I thought I should let them make up their own minds when there were old enough to understand it, but the theists are targeting the young to warp their minds before they get old enough to understand it. Now my children firmly believe in god and my 10 yr old son just told me that he didn't believe in evolution, cavemen, or even dinosours. I was so shocked I didn't know what to say. He is an extremely smart child and I never thought this would be an issue. I asked him why and he told me there was no proof. I got online and showed him a caveman found frozen in ice as well as dinosour bones. He seemed genuinely interested at the time, but still believes in god. The reason I found rational responders was because I was doing as much research as I could so that when I sit down with my kids for the talk I must do, I wanted to be completely prepared to answer the questions they will have. I firmly believe now that we have a duty to teach our children the truth from a young age and try as we might to shield them from the harms of theists until they are old enough they can make such important decisions as this. I fear I may have lost my own kids to them, and that's my fault.

My daughter (18) is a theist. At first I was disappointed and felt that I had failed as a parent, but she and I have talked about it and we have learned to accept the beliefs/non-beliefs of each other. She and I discuss religion often in terms of it's impact on society and we agree on most issues. She has learned to produce solid reasoning for her political positions and so have I.

Ultimately, it is her decision to believe as she chooses and I suspect that her reasons have more to do with fellowship than god belief. I encourage her to examine her beliefs in order to support them, but I will not force her to denounce them.

I wouldnt disown a child for dissagreeing with me on any issue. If you love your child it is not a case of allways saying "do what I say". Good parenting involves good two way communication with the understanding on the parents side that the child might not grow up to want or value the same thing as the parent did.

Just as more and more people find it unacceptable to kick a child out for being gay, I would not in turn kick a child out for saying, "I believe in Jesus"

I dont have to like what my child believes, but I certianly cant beat it out of them either. Most parents will still love their children and not dissown them over something as petty as a dissagreement over the existance of God. Any parent who'd do that is insecure.

My only expectation would be that they understand that it is not their job to change the world or write religious laws through goverment based on sectarian grounds.

If common ground is to be found in humanity while still alowing differances to exist peacefully, humanity has to seek overlap insted of dominance. A child cannot be prepared for adulthood if the parent indocrinates them with tunnel vision. That will set them up to see others as the enemy insted of merely a friend with an aposiing view.

We as a species have it within us to refrain from using excuses of self defense or agression in acts of violence. It is because we still are stuck in club labels called nations, political parties and religions.

This is not an anarchist view. Independance and autonomy and the disire to live without fear of one's neighbor is in us all. We create fear from issues so petty most of the time. It is because the labels are superficial and block chances of overlap.

Humanity is stil stuck in the mentality of beating the crap out of each other over what amounts to calling your sister a whore.

I think the world's youth diserves better. I think humanity has it within themselves to maintain individuality while still seeking cooperation without dictation.

It does start with our children. But it cant sustain a positive outlook when we seek to dominate without the free market of ideas .

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."ObamaCheck out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

It would depend on the situation, but mostly I'd feel angry at myself.

There is no reason to believe that religion, or rather dogma, is beneficial to your life or that a deity exists. That much should be obvious to anyone who conducts their thought in a rational and objective manner. Thus if my child embraced such notions it would mean I had failed as a parent and not taught my child to think properly. I wouldn't ever tell my children not to believe in something simply because I said so, but would talk with them through anything they were thinking about and teach them to ensure they had considered all of the evidence before deciding something. But in the end their decision, however much I may dislike it, is theirs and I would never treat my child differently because of it or try to force them to change. I would, however, make it very clear that I disagreed with them.

Anyway, that's at least a decade away. Jeez, scary thought.

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine

It would depend on the situation, but mostly I'd feel angry at myself.

When you get a little older, you will discover that you are not your child, and you will also discover that your child's success, survival, and happiness will be all that matters.

You will also discover you disagree on many, many things and that being angry at yourself for what your child thinks is a dead end.

Hey! I'm not that young, I'm 23! Well anyway, like I say it'll be more than a decade (hopefully) before I think about having kids. Opinions can change alot in that amount of time, so we'll see. Anyway, I agree with my parents on most things and have a great relationship with my whole family - I hope I'll be able to do as good a job as I feel my parents did, and part of the reason why I would feel angry/dissapointed would be because I didn't.

<edited to correct tense, mostly/>

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine

A very timely question. It is what caused me to start posting on this board. I have a 16 month old child that my wife wants to take to church and as a relatively 'new' atheist, I was wondering where others stood on the issue so I could help formulate my thoughts and examine my pre-conceptions. (I think a lot better with a sounding board.)

This is what I came up with. What my child believes hold absolutely no bearing on what I feel about her, just as my feelings towards my wife are not affected by her belief. I would be a tad concerned if she swallowed the fundy crap, but I hope I will do a better job of raising her to think critically then that.

"When you hit your thumb with a hammer it's nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a special kind of atheist to jump up and down shout, 'Oh, random fluctuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!'"-Terry Pratchett

When I was little and brought to bible school and things of that nature, real early on it was just a place for a kid to color and eat cookies. As I got a little bit older in the process I started to ask questions they didn't have sufficient answers for, or some even silly. For me, I suppose that short church run actually was a catalyst for ultimately being a freethinker. I understand that it traps people well beyond the crayon and cookie days however, and in general I'd be opposed to sending my kids to Church of any kind.

Like someone said before, I'd try to concentrate those years on how to think, how to solve problems logically and how to find their own conclusions. Indoctrinating a child with religious, political and economic views is careless. If you've done your job, and the kid knows how to think critically and ask questions... I'd be shocked if that person would be able to seek out and really jump on board to a theistic religion.

I would seriously question the way I brought her up. Children grow in the form from which they were molded. I believe that in order to raise a free child, they must be protected from the temptations put forth by the religious institutions. Avoid at all costs the "bible camps" and the "visitor days" at the churches.

If a child is poisoned by religion, they were obviously exposed to something that convinced them that blind faith was okay.

If you've done your job, and the kid knows how to think critically and ask questions... I'd be shocked if that person would be able to seek out and really jump on board to a theistic religion.

Hi stuntgibbon. Welcome to the forums.

You answered that you would be shocked, but how would you feel and how would you deal with your child if they, in fact, became a theist?

How would i deal with the child? Probably pretty normally, how anyone would "deal" with a child. Still feed him/her, put him/her to bed, take him/her to school, encourage him/her to make the most of their life and find its own meaning, make sure him/her attended a decent college (and recommend some philosophy courses ) ... To do otherwise would be highly hypocritical of me. Religion burdens our world and causes conflict where there shouldn't be any, why should I be that burden to someone else. I despise and oppose the message, not the messengers.

Pretty much the same question of the "Question for Christian parents" topic but roles reversed.

I'll check on the response when I wake up.

[MOD EDIT - corrected spelling in thread title]

My kid can choose to believe whatever she wants.

I'll do my best to teach her about religions, about science, and about treating people with respect, beliving in equality, opposing segregation, and defending minority rights. If she rejects those things, then I'll be content debating her on her beliefs. If she shares those beliefs and chooses to belive in a god, then that's fine as well. I don't have to agree with my daughter. She doesn't have to agree with me.

I think it's more difficult for a theist to accept their child being an atheist becuase they believe that means their kid will go to hell. No parent wants to see something bad happen to their child, and hell is as bad as it gets. An atheist can be more content disagreeing with their child knowing that there is no eternal cost to that disagreement.

My parents are cultural Christians, they don't really believe in God really, nor the truth of the bible but they always put Church of England (protestant church founded by Henry VIII, official state religion in law) on census forms. My Grandpa (dad's dad) is a vicar who baptised several of my cousins, and married my parents. I however was never baptised, neither were my brother and sister. My parents always wanted me to find my own way, to think for myself. I don't think they ever made it clear by absolutely saying go and think critically but they did tell me several times once I began to think about religion that I could make whatever choice I wanted, and they'd prooved this years earlier, when at the age of five I personally decided I wanted to be vegetarian. They do however, when discussing the indoctrination of children into religion, respect parent's rights to do so, they claimed to have indoctrinated me, although there is a big difference between teaching moral agency and teaching irrational thought.

With my own kids, when I have them, I will not shelter them from religion. They will be open to all religions, ultimately the decision will be theirs to make. I will always stress the importance of critical thinking. It shouldn't be too hard, intelligence seems to run in my family. grandad (mum's dad) who worked all his life, never went to university (wishes he had), never had an education beyond high school, is still sharp as a ball, very clever, very philosophical and is an atheist. I actually agree with him on a lot of things, except perhaps politics (it is my other theistic grandpa who I agree with more on politics), whenever I see either of them it results in an in depth discussion. My granny (mum's) tries to pitch in occasionally but really doesn't have much of a clue. I guess I was raised in a family where there has always been debate, challenging each other, my auntie and uncle (dad's sister and her husband) are both professional academics so Cordingley family get togethers are always fantastic! Thinking has always been important to my family, and I really hope that my kids get the same. They will probably turn out atheists anyway. They'll be too clever to be theists really (seeing as I find clever women attractive, I assume my children will have a clever mother too). If they were theists, it would depend on the age I guess, but once they were in the double digits I would certainly challenge them but reinforce it as their decision ultimately. If they were younger it would probably be more indifferent. They'll grow out of it.

I think I'd be a little confused, to be honest, because I plan to bring my children up in a free-thinking, rational environment in which religion is always viewed as something other people believe is true. So if he/she declared his/herself a theist, I'd be a little confused, because true rational thought is not conducive to theism. But it wouldn't change how I viewed or treated my kid. It might even make conversation more interesting

I would teach my kid to not believe in God. However, at a young age it's pretty difficult for kids to think critically. They may not even understand how or why to do so (this applied for me up to age of 13). If my child was a Theist, I would be pretty annoyed. The kid decided not to listen to me, but to subject to his/her naiive emotions and accept God. However, kids will propably give up childish beliefs (santa claus and propably God) at a later age. Just as I did.

I have thought about this subject alot over the last year since the birth of my son. I feel that if I teach him to be an atheist then I am endoctrine him into a belief, the same as christians do their children. I believe atheism is a awakening, you open your eyes to see the truth, and if you like it or not, there is no going back. I would hope my son will take the blue pill and see the world as it is, not the as they want you too.

Man is the only animal in all of nature that cannot accept its own mortality.

Since religion isn't a part of my life I wouldn't educate him/her in it at all. In fact, it would only come up if he/she brought it up and then I would show them my viewpoint, show them why I have come up with it, and challenge them to do research.

I believe atheism is a awakening, you open your eyes to see the truth, and if you like it or not, there is no going back. I would hope my son will take the blue pill and see the world as it is, not the as they want you too.

I definitely agree. It was alot like an awakening on my part. However, I like to call it ENLIGHTENIMENT!

Honestly, I'd be a little disappointed. But if it made my kid happy, I'd deal with it. Hopefully, he would retain the other values I'd teach him, like tolerance and logic and a laissez-faire attitude, and would therefore not be a proselytizing, superior prick.

I would feel a bit like I failed to protect them. I guess I would feel similar to if they got into any other drugs in a big way. I think religion would be similar to finding out my kid had a heroin habit to be honest. I would still love and care for them but I would feel guilty as to not having done enough to prevent them from falling into bad habits. In fact heroin would probably be preferable its got a much better recovery rate.

WHAT??? My dogs are theists?? My 3 dogs ARE my children. Gay men have a hard time reproducing with each other (though we keep trying...) hehehe

Seriously, IF I had biological kids - I'd support them in their life choices (whether they were dealing with matters of faith, sexual orientation, or anything else) and help them with making an informed decision. Would I mind? No, not really - as long as they were happy...

(I didn't think sniffing butts and eating poop was a very "theist" thing to do ... but then again, I've seen stranger things than that).

Crocoduck - A missing transitional link that theists have been hoping does not exist...

My friend has a niece who entered probably the worst religion of all. Mormonism. I feel really sorry for their whole family. However, if my child were to choose a religion, i would be inclined to respect his/her choice, only because i am their parents. If they were to try to convert me, thats a completely different situtaion though. But, i would raise them with my knowledge, and hopefully brainwash them into believing atheism.

My family is Catholic, thru and thru. Still, for some reason, I suppose it was honesty and wanting to encourage my curiosity and intellectual development - my parents never denied me access to anything.

Oddly enough, so did my priest.

For me, I was encouraged to answer every question I had. There were weekly trips to the library and museums, and I loved those days.

If I ever have children, I'll simply hope they will be as inquisitive as I was, and I'll encourage that like my family did. Afterall, at the end of the day, that's really what destroys susceptability to the shit the other side is shoveling.

If the kid cannot figure out what's what on their own with free access to info, then it's time for a paternity test, because I seriously doubt any child of mine could fall for such horse shit given the choice and acess to info they deserve.

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

I wouldn't lie if I said I'd feel dissapointed and like I failed or something that they became theist. Might pick their brains as to why too...... if they were pretty firm in their beliefs as a theist I probably wouldn't mess with that and deal with it.

Quote:

Religion at BEST - is like a lift in your shoe. If you need it for a while, and it makes you walk straight and feel better - fine. But you don't need it forever, or you can become permanently disabled.

just curious: is it true that crazy old Jerry Falwell's father was an atheist?

Indeed

Quote:

His paternal grandfather, Charles William Falwell, embittered by the death of his wife and a favorite nephew, was a vocal and decisive atheist who would not go to church, and who ridiculed those who did.

She arrived at the conclusion that because there are no monsters under the bed or ghosts, there could not possibly be a god. I told her..are you sure, and she replied.... well it would be silly. Once you start using your mind, it is as simple as 1.2.3 to realize there cannot possibly be a god.

So, then, people in, say, Nebraska in 1940, could argue that since there are no SS Panzer brigades in Omaha, it must follow that there is no such person as Adolph Hitler.

I would deal with it as I would other unwholesome, puerile fixations. If the child smoked a cigarette, I would make him smoke cigarettes until he was ill. If I catch the child praying, I would make the child pray until he threw up. Pretty easy really.

So, then, people in, say, Nebraska in 1940, could argue that since there are no SS Panzer brigades in Omaha, it must follow that there is no such person as Adolph Hitler.

This is all sounding a bit shakey....

Ah ha, but there were SS Panzer divisions in most of Europe at the time, which was a verifiable fact even to those living in Nebraska. There has never been a verifiable monster under a bed or ghost (by verifiable, I mean having more than a few people able to see, touch, smell, hear, etc. or by being able to go and see, touch, smell, etc. yourself). I agree that things are getting shakey here, but I'm pretty sure that it's your logic.

Side note: Hi all! New here, but I'll make sure to introduce myself over in the proper forum.

I would teach my child to experience life with an open mind. I would teach my child to explore all the possibilities and not to believe an idea just because it is written in a book or preached. I would encourage them to explore all the religions in the world. I would accept my child being a believer of the "God of Abraham" like I would accept my child being gay.

I was raised without religion, as was my brother--I'm a liberal atheist, he is a militant Christian conservative. I love him so much, but I also hate this part of him, and even thinking about it is devastating. He's a very clever boy and the fact this religion has instilled so much hate in him just... upsets me.

I would have trouble dealing with a theist child. I think as someone else mentioned, it would be like having a child who became a race hatemonger. I understand there are degrees to belief, and I could accept a child who thought there was "something else out there" in a vague way, as I've read about spiritual feelings being related to a part of the brain, and that you can't really change a child's genetics. But if the child joined an organised religion that advocated against things like gay marriage and other rights issues (and there are so many), it would make me feel like I had failed, in the same way I often feel like I've failed my brother.

My partner, also an atheist, was raised in a religious situation and isn't as worried as me about the potential of having an atheist child--he assumes they'll be an atheist automatically. From my personal experience I know that this won't necessarily be the case, and it worries me a lot, especially as we're planning to have children in the next two years.