Yes, CAP is not in DEERS... that's a given (and is the reason why currently such use of AAFES is a non-issue).

obviously for such an arrangement (or any arrangement) to work that is one of the first things that the Air Force / DoD would have to be willing to change.

what I was getting at here, is if such an overall model for BX use would work or not. thanks for pointing this out though. You've highlighted what is just about the most important fact... when it comes to this whole issue (one that many people are not aware of when they talk about this).

thanks for your input! anyone else have more reactions or thoughts on this (as an overall approach I mean)?

If you ask me, the point is that this is a 10 year old thread. Some folks need to get over it and realize its not going to happen. Go get a Costco or Sam's Club membership and go shopping like the rest of us civilians. You'll get a nice card with your name on it and a bar code. Looks all official

Not all wings even have a USAF base in the state or close proximity, and many of the bases have small exchanges that have trouble supplying the active forces assigned there, let alone CAP people.

NAVEXs have very little CAP can make use of beyond shoes, boots, undergarments, and the tailor.

And of course MCSS generally has little that the 50+% of the membership who are restricted from wearing USAF-style combos can use besides the shoes, boots, and ribbon racks.

CAP is not authorized to use NAVEX, so you're in there at their pleasure.

In your haste to post the pedantic, you missed the actual point.

Then why did you mention them in the first place, Bob? Your statement was correct, but not relevant. I can shop there, since I have the necessary credentials, but that's not really relevant, either.

So, to repeat Phil's Q, what is your point of mentioning NavEx's?

Because NAVExs make up some of the MCSS' that CAP theoretically has access to, and before all theservices got "happy" about being "unique", members could get a lot of uniform items at them.

Access to them, and other non-USAF military facilities, are provided through reciprocal support / access agreements to the AFIs that grants CAP base access.

The point was that when you make an issue of the fact that CAP still presents AAFES as a uniform source, but the phone ordering ability disappeared without notice, the response by some members of NHQ staff is "well you can still go to clothing sales", when in fact, that's never been an actual option for most members, who, by far, will never set foot on a military base of any kind during the entirety of their CAP career, and even those who do, these days, may not be on a USAF base.

You make a good point here. Even if a good model was ever found... base access will almost always be an issue. There are some PX/BX locations that are not on military bases (some that I know of off the top of my head are Sacramento, California... and some in Hawaii. i'm sure there are others)... but this will always be an issue, because the majority are on bases... which turns it into an additional problem of access.

Quote from: etodd on May 29, 2016, 05:12:53 amIf you ask me, the point is that this is a 10 year old thread. Some folks need to get over it and realize its not going to happen. Go get a Costco or Sam's Club membership and go shopping like the rest of us civilians. You'll get a nice card with your name on it and a bar code. Looks all official

You're probably correct about this... when it comes to some people who continually bring this issue up. I already have access to AAFES, so it's not something that i worry about.

any curiosity that i expressed in my post... was just wondering whether or not something like the old-style commissary card system would work or not. maybe it could, or maybe not. who knows? just wondering if anyone had thoughts on that. thanks for sharing everyone...

If you walk into a NavEx, and mention CAP, the vast majority of them will respond with, "huh?", and decline the sale. If Great Mistakes allows sales to CAP members, it's an exception based on the encampments being there, and not a normal occurrence. I say that as a lifelong Exchange customer. Again, not worth bringing into the conversation.

Not all wings even have a USAF base in the state or close proximity, and many of the bases have small exchanges that have trouble supplying the active forces assigned there, let alone CAP people.

NAVEXs have very little CAP can make use of beyond shoes, boots, undergarments, and the tailor.

And of course MCSS generally has little that the 50+% of the membership who are restricted from wearing USAF-style combos can use besides the shoes, boots, and ribbon racks.

CAP is not authorized to use NAVEX, so you're in there at their pleasure.

In your haste to post the pedantic, you missed the actual point.

Then why did you mention them in the first place, Bob? Your statement was correct, but not relevant. I can shop there, since I have the necessary credentials, but that's not really relevant, either.

So, to repeat Phil's Q, what is your point of mentioning NavEx's?

Because NAVExs make up some of the MCSS' that CAP theoretically has access to, and before all theservices got "happy" about being "unique", members could get a lot of uniform items at them.

Access to them, and other non-USAF military facilities, are provided through reciprocal support / access agreements to the AFIs that grants CAP base access.

The point was that when you make an issue of the fact that CAP still presents AAFES as a uniform source, but the phone ordering ability disappeared without notice, the response by some members of NHQ staff is "well you can still go to clothing sales", when in fact, that's never been an actual option for most members, who, by far, will never set foot on a military base of any kind during the entirety of their CAP career, and even those who do, these days, may not be on a USAF base.

There are no agreements for CAP to use anything other then the Army and Air Force Exchange Service. The various services Exchanges are not connected and they all make their own rules. If you were able to use the NAVEX with just your CAP membership card, great.If you can find an AFI that allows CAP to use anything other then AAFES please post it here. We'll wait...

I read "NAVEX" several times. Are you referring to "NEX" (Navy Exchange)?

The NEX has nothing do to with CAP, just as they would have nothing to do with the USAF. They're two different exchange services.

NEX has some great discounts depending on what you're buying. I haven't had the privilege of actually using AAFES, but I'm sure it's comparable in cost/quality. The no-tax is mucho fantastico depending on what you're buying. Uniform items are going to run you a higher rate than surplus items, but where else are you going to get the official government-issue with the original tags/stamps?

The issue with the ABUs is that this is the uniform that CAP is switching to and is inherently inaccessible to CAP members. You won't get the DLATS items from anywhere else except for the knock-offs.

You figure by this point Ma Blue and Father CAP would have came up with some form of arrangement to grant everyone access to at least purchase their uniform items through an official source and not have to scour the scorched earth to find them on their own.

Even if it costed a bit more, I would be in complete favor of NHQ having a supply program through which items could be procured through CAP, paid for by CAP members and shipped to their home units or personal location without having to essentially "figure it out on your own." It's just like the Voucher: "Use it at Vanguard." Why couldn't CAP just obtain the items for the cadets based on their input information and cut the B.S. with the "voucher." Just issue the friggin' uniform. Whatever you can't "give," bill me. It may not be the cheapest route, but it would be so much easier for Joe Q. Airman.

Unless you're in the USAF and assigned to a Navy base because it's the only military base in the area.

The point of the comment was that there are other MCSS locations besides those on USAF bases, andthe AAFES locations are many times too small to be much value to those assigned there, let alone CAP. For every Wright Patt, there's a Scott, which at least the last time I was down there, was the size of the average gift shop in a small hotel (I'd like to think that has changed in the intervening years).

But even with the availability of other MCSS locations, those aren't much value to CAP, either, becausethe don't stock items members can wear, and those aren't that plentiful, either.

The entire point of the comment was that to respond that "CAP members still have access to MCSS even though AAFES phone orders have ceased" ignores the fact that those locations in general, USAF or other, are few and far between, and/or logistically non-existent for most members, the majority of which will never set foot on a military base.

As to the other nonsense about AFIs not applying to the Navy, etc., of course not, per se. I have no interest ina conversation where people who don't know will explain how things that have been happening for 25+ years "never happen".

Even if it costed a bit more, I would be in complete favor of NHQ having a supply program through which items could be procured through CAP, paid for by CAP members and shipped to their home units or personal location without having to essentially "figure it out on your own." It's just like the Voucher: "Use it at Vanguard." Why couldn't CAP just obtain the items for the cadets based on their input information and cut the B.S. with the "voucher."

I think you have pretty much answered your own question. CAP could, of course, purchase/acquire the uniforms and accessories and mail them to members. It would, as you suggest, require an considerable investment in infrastructure. We would need space to store, process and ship thousands of uniforms a year. Plus a half dozen employees or so. Who would have to be paid a competitive wage, along with benefits, etc.

That pretty much describes what we used to call the Bookstore (later CAPMART). And we consistently lost tens of thousands of dollars a year trying to run a retail operation. Despite several reorganizations and serious tweaking over many years.

That's we outsource that function to folks who have a great deal of expertise in uniform and accessories. And who already have warehouses, order processing folks, and a shipping line. They can do if far more cheaply and efficiently than we could ever hope to do so. That's a win for our members.