All this nonsense has got to end. The problem isn't that people won't pay for things, the problem is things are TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE. IF ONLY THERE WAS SOMEWAY TO GET CONTENT CHEAPLY AND LEGALLY!!....There are already services out there that provide nearly unlimited content at little to no cost and are proven profit makers...

cough...Steam, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon E-books...cough.

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You hit the nail on the head.

Excuse me here while i go off on a tanget, i'll try to put this argument together as logically as possible, but i've had a few drinks and my thought process is convoluted.

How much did actors and directors and screenwriters get paid in Elizabethan times? Very little. They were looked down upon. Even Shakespeare himself was an undesirable.
Why?
One reason was because people, generally didn't have the money for frivolous things like theatre. People were more concerned with spending their money on things like food and housing.

Even if you look at the mid 20th century, actors, directors and screen writes were not highly paid professions. People simply didn't have the money to spend. The jobs were still there, there was little piracy, people got paid and we got to watch good movies.

Come the boom years, everyone (in the US and Europe) could afford to pay more for life's little extravagances. Hollywood changes their model and upped their prices to suit their consumer, or take advantage of their market, depending on how you view it.

Come the 21st century - There is a (growing) 2nd class society in America that no longer have the same budget to spend on entertainment, however there is still the existing baby boomers who have plenty of cash to spare. And so Hollywood is split, on the one hand there are people who can and will pay and those who cannot afford current prices. If you were a business, who would you try to cater for?

There is also a number of people who can pay, but won't. Was any different back in the 17-18th Century? People would sneak in to theaters or watch from a distance, but it wouldn't be as good as paying a penny for your own seat. The industry offered the paying customer a lot more and so were not as worried about freeloaders but, i'm sure they did everything they could to discourage it. One of the main incentives being the cheap price for a seat.... anyway, that is an aside to the main point.

Hollywood is still basing it's business model on an outdated economy. They do not want to change and accept a reduction in income (as everyone else has done - tell me an actor who has, over the past 10 years, earned less money than they would have in the 90's) they would rather fight it and criminalize anyone unable to afford the price.

Globalization - Now this is one of the biggest factors, and is really a non argument. Would you pay a weeks wage to watch a film? no? thought not. And yet that's how much it would cost to see a (Hollywood) movie in many countries. There are some alternatives available, a cinema ticket might cost 1/2 a day's wage to the average worker, and guess what... in Vietnam cinema attendance is up at least 50x what it was 10 years ago. So instead of getting nothing for all their hard work, they have catered to their audience and are now getting something, although i am sure it is insignificant on a global scale, it show that they can adapt and cater to their market.

Of course, after a movie is no longer popular, it is not shown in the theatres and Hollywood can't make any money from dvd sales at american prices. And this is where there desperately needs to be a new model..

TLDR - There have always been the 3 types of customer - those who can pay and will, those who won;t and those who can't. Hollywood need to adapt and cater to both their (potential) paying audiences as the percentage population of their audience changes.

Afterthoughts - Politically speaking, i'm pretty sure Piracy is a very good thing for the US. If i were a politician, i would not give 2 shits if people pirated my countries content.. so long as they kept the "made in america" tag

Hollywood needs to broaden their horizens a bit. i'm talkn more than a pay by month service like Netflix..cause their kinda limited in selection anyway, especially when it comes to streaming. Something like Steam for games where you have daily specials, weekend deals, package deals...etc. Make it for iosx, osx, linux, windows, android..etc.
If they make such a service and provide clients where you can access your collection, movie info's and even ability to just rent it or watch a bit of movie first to see if they want it. and various related content with similar deals and incentives and gifting's...people will easily pay.

What seems so insignificant on the user end becomes a massive amount of money on the provider's end. Can you really blame the entertainment industry for charging into this the way they are? Think about it... they see the stats of millions (probobaly billions) of illegal file downlaods for media that was supposed to have been bought and they flip the fu*k out over it. Hell... so would I if I were in their shoes. But all these people are giving them and the government(s) so much flak over this shit because all they see is a few song files on their hard drive and maybe a couple of movies they didn't want to spend any money on.

I'm guilty of some software and music downloads in the past. Heck, I even justified it with "I wouldn't have bought it anyways, so they didn't lose any money"... but one day I realized what a BS excuse that is. I'm not going to buy a Ferrari either, doesn't mean I can steal one and go for a joy ride.

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if you could moke a perfect copy of your neighbours and leave his intact, would you take that for a joyride?

6 years ago, I would have. Today, no. I see piracy as a very legitimate issue and I made a vow to myself several years ago to stop. I won't even watch a bootleg dvd.

Now if I could just get my proclivity for driving over the speed limit wrapped up in the same "do the right thing" kind of mentality. :shadedshu

BTW, I think you made some really interesting points in your ridiculouslylongpostabove. I hadn't considered those angles. You're right, content providers need to find a way to fill certain gaps. Maybe if piracy was only limited to those situations they would be more inclined to focus there, but instead they are dealing with a crapload of people that priate with no legitimate excuse and are probably overlooking the instances you brought up.

What seems so insignificant on the user end becomes a massive amount of money on the provider's end. Can you really blame the entertainment industry for charging into this the way they are? Think about it... they see the stats of millions (probobaly billions) of illegal file downlaods for media that was supposed to have been bought and they flip the fu*k out over it. Hell... so would I if I were in their shoes. But all these people are giving them and the government(s) so much flak over this shit because all they see is a few song files on their hard drive and maybe a couple of movies they didn't want to spend any money on.

I'm guilty of some software and music downloads in the past. Heck, I even justified it with "I wouldn't have bought it anyways, so they didn't lose any money"... but one day I realized what a BS excuse that is. I'm not going to buy a Ferrari either, doesn't mean I can steal one and go for a joy ride.

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I fully agree and well written! But I can't stop wondering where were they when all this began, if pirating was to be stopped at the beginning things would be different now. And another thing I found interesting is that some claim (even a few artists) that they have put their songs intentionally on pirating sites and this caused the legal sales to go up (you can look at it as free advertising).
The only thing that bothers me is that quality of music (loudness wars anyone?) and games is really poor, I buy everything that justifies the price everything else I pirate try it and more or less I delete it anyway (the same way you mentioned it). If I knew everything had at least decent quality I would buy it straight away.

Maybe if piracy was only limited to those situations they would be more inclined to focus there, but instead they are dealing with a crapload of people that priate with no legitimate excuse and are probably overlooking the instances you brought up.

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It would be interesting to know the proportion of people who pirate for no legitimate excuse and those with one. I believe that those with one fall in to the majority. People tend to try to fit into social norms and if paying for what you use (when possible) is the norm, then most people will do it. otherwise society would have catastrophically failed a long time ago.

It would be interesting to know the proportion of people who pirate for no legitimate excuse and those with one. I believe that those with one fall in to the majority. People tend to try to fit into social norms and if paying for what you use (when possible) is the norm, then most people will do it. otherwise society would have catastrophically failed a long time ago.

That is all speculation, however.

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Actually that is the truth, all my friends I know pirate pretty much everything and when I say something like "I'll buy that album..." they laugh at me and tell me that I'm crazy.

... But I can't stop wondering where were they when all this began, if pirating was to be stopped at the beginning things would be different now...

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When business models spring the likes of Napster, LimeWire, TPB, MegaUpload that facilitate the pirating the once managable (or at the very least insignificant) issue becomes a raging flood that can't be stopped without going after the source. It's just smart focus of resources. The average person wont pirate something if it's a royal pain in the arse to do so, but when sites make it so fricking easy they apparently lose their sense of right and wrong and can't help themselves.

The only thing that bothers me is that quality of music (loudness wars anyone?) and games is really poor, I buy everything that justifies the price everything else I pirate try it and more or less I delete it anyway (the same way you mentioned it). If I knew everything had at least decent quality I would buy it straight away.

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I wish game demos were more common. Now days I rely entirely on online reviews to determine if a non-demo game is worth my money. As for music, a Rhapsody account is a great thing.

@ EnergyFX - If you download porn (i'm not saying you do), do you/would you pay for that? As that is an industry that has genuinely been hit by piracy.

I think if people saw Tom Hanks in the street begging for money so that he can eat then piracy of large hollywood titles might be taken more seriously by the masses.

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Curious, are YouPorn, RedTube, etc. pirate sites? Porn is an industry and if there isn't money to be made in it then it is going to disappear. So no, I'm not going to pirate porn, but I also won't pay for it when there are sites like the ones listed above. If you tell me that visiting them is partaking in pirating then I'll tell you now that I'll never visit them again. Hmm, now you have me thinking. Maybe I'll just find one site I am happy with and pay for their service.

And if you don't like how successful Tom Hanks is then don't watch his movies. Still doesn't make stealing them okay. Actually, I don't think you meant it that way, I see the point you were loosely trying to make.

Yes it's nice but does it have the quality of lossless music or an SACD source or some 24bit/96khz music? The most funny thing is that vinyl rips of music from the 70's or 80's is better than todays music (which could be higher quality if the mastering would be done properly and not compress it beyond belief), I buy the CD's (those of which I can, so I can support the artist) but my main source are vinyl rips (yes it's pirating but the music industry did it on their own by ruining the quality).

Actually that is the truth, all my friends I know pirate pretty much everything and when I say something like "I'll buy that album..." they laugh at me and tell me that I'm crazy.

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I used to pirate everything when i was younger also. Nowadays i only pirate when i don't have another option. My steam collection is full of games i have never legitimation played, but i got pirated versions and loved them, the price was reasonable so i brought them. Also games which offer you additional content for money, i will gladly pay for.

When business models spring the likes of Napster, LimeWire, TPB, MegaUpload that facilitate the pirating the once managable (or at the very least insignificant) issue becomes a raging flood that can't be stopped without going after the source. It's just smart focus of resources. The average person wont pirate something if it's a royal pain in the arse to do so, but when sites make it so fricking easy they apparently lose their sense of right and wrong and can't help themselves.

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This is where the industry need to change and come up with a different model. But, you are getting it backwards. Either the industry need to offer more than you get from an illegal source or charge an amount of money that is proportionate.

I used to pirate stuff on my old amstrad (hi-speed dubbing ftw) but i also used to pay for most of my games. No one really gave a shit, it wasn't the end of the industry. Same thing happened with VCRs although i, myself, never copied any movies as it only used to cost a pound to go to the video store and rent one.

Those ads in movies you rent and attend to in cinemas where it tells you not to copy shit because it's stealing weren't just for show, so far this is the best example the Government has so far, taking down the most well known pirate site. Not to be a douche but it is about time, but their move imo highly contradicts their need for ACTA/SOPA/PIPA. Maybe this is a way for the elites to tell us that they don't need that shit after all but it's there under their christmas wish lists for satan.. I mean santa to deliver.

Ah you edited. Thought you meant copy a DVD. Hmm, copying a Ferrari and leaving the original intact... what a helluva temptation that would be. I dunno, it's an impossible hypothetical, but, as much as I would like to sit here and claim moral perfection, I'm not without my faults. I think I'd be more inclined to ask the neighbor for a joyride. It's easy to say that now though since the temptation doesn't actually exist.

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Originally Posted by NdMk2o1o
The US Government aka the internet police

Not just the US Government. Your own government has to LET them first. So ether your government is a bunch of pussys OR they are working with the US Government. Take your pick. Blame is equal on both ends.

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obviously, 51st state and 1of 3 rings of power and all that, im starting to think this is all the dream of a camel sat on the back of a whale swimming and eating all our soles, why else was i born the soddin decade they made technology happen, now im forced to watch utter bollox on the box(not in my house tho) where i could have been born with sticks as entertainment but, none of the, We say shit from the Gov or 5 days in 2 off wtf the worlds gone mad ,and its gettin worse the old selling us air analogy is starting to seem plausible these days, esspecially since billions in revenue appears to not be enough for the entertainment industry, they wana try some proper work the lazy gets theyd appreciate their money more

Well, we got to think different on this "IP piracy" subject, cause there is one-sided debate here presented by Big Media. First of all, they demanded control over intellectual property that is not their own, but has other rightful owners - not for profit Industry Standards and Technology Organization or in most cases is open source. Second, Big Media demands that control to strangle competition, profiting from distributing their IP over existing data channels and not allowing others like MegaUpload to do so on behalf of the real IP authors. Distributing digital content has obvious benefits, cause there is zero production cost for each new digital copy, no partner fees and you are free to do whatever you want with pricing. That is quite good, till you operate in a perfectly competitive market. Big media is trying to effectively seas possession for themselves over existing data channels and their underlying IP, by forcing SOPA/PIPA legislation.

obviously, 51st state and 1of 3 rings of power and all that, im starting to think this is all the dream of a camel sat on the back of a whale swimming and eating all our soles, why else was i born the soddin decade they made technology happen, now im forced to watch utter bollox on the box(not in my house tho) where i could have been born with sticks as entertainment but, none of the, We say shit from the Gov or 5 days in 2 off wtf the worlds gone mad ,and its gettin worse the old selling us air analogy is starting to seem plausible these days, esspecially since billions in revenue appears to not be enough for the entertainment industry, they wana try some proper work the lazy gets theyd appreciate their money more

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This is the problem with a centralized government. To much power. This is why when the US was formed we wanted the states to have power. Keep power local.

But people are lazy and don't want to take any responsibility for themselves so we give the government the power to become our nanny's. You reap what you sow.

The only way to stop this is to stop sucking the governments tit and start living like you have a backbone and not expect them to bail you out with grants and free crap. Until then no one can complain.

Ah you edited. Thought you meant copy a DVD. Hmm, copying a Ferrari and leaving the original intact... what a helluva temptation that would be. I dunno, it's an impossible hypothetical, but, as much as I would like to sit here and claim moral perfection, I'm not without my faults. I think I'd be more inclined to ask the neighbor for a joyride. It's easy to say that now though since the temptation doesn't actually exist.

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And he would probably let you joyride it for a crate of beer and not ask you to pay the asking price of a Ferrari. Why would you bother going to the trouble of copying one? You aren;t going to drive one everyday and have no interest in owning one.

ive never ever played a pirated game that i thought was worth buying and not bought it, ill either buy it or not play it, ive allways a few to get through anyway so i see the odd shifty look at a new game whilst at a mates house or something as a demo, something games companys dont sometimes do, as it would inform the masses how poor some of their titles are

plus i feel instead of moaning about such things devs and game companies should expend that cash and effort on making drm that is effective,invisible and also apply this too online cheating etc, i dont mind at all that my pc has to beauthorised for a game to play, ill even accept a frequent/allways online drm that works but im not happy with having limits set(activation) as its allways the same soddin pc anyway just eternally messing about with stuff me.

anyaway my point is since rebuilding my pc 3 weeks ago crysis 2 has needed activating 5 times despite only OC changes and im locked out of it ,crysis 1 max edition all of, im locked out too, All im gona do is crack activate them, i pre paid for crysis 2 and own them all Legit, hard boxed copy right here but it would be easier Still to DL a copy and play that then sort this fiasco out ,and thats a ridiculous scenario

There are a lot of people posting to this thread who would, if they had any business drive, be screaming bloody murder if they saw someone using something they created without paying for it. Sadly these people posting are lazy do nothings who still live in their mom's basement.

There are a lot of people posting to this thread who would, if they had any business drive, be screaming bloody murder if they saw someone using something they created without paying for it. Sadly these people posting are lazy do nothings who still live in their mom's basement.

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Yes, people are greedy.

However, if i were making something an not getting paid for it i would stop or find another way to market it.