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Vilcabamba Ecuador - Opinions, opinions ...

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. Every now and again I read something somewhere
that I find interesting, not that I necessarily agree or need to agree with what
is being written, but when someone makes the effort to articulate a decent point
of view about something, and in particular when it is about Vilcabamba or Loja,
I believe that it deserves to be published on this web site. All opinions expressed
on this page are the opinions of their respective authors and I do not endorse them
in any way.

Now, a note to the authors of these pieces below, I haven't always asked for your
permission to reproduce your text here. I assume that if the following conditions
are met, it is OK, let me know otherwise:

the text reproduced here is already publicly available on the internet

the text is not altered in any way

credentials are given to the author

a clickable link is provided pointing to the web page of the original
content

On the other hand, if someone wishes to reproduce any original content from
this web site on their web site (such as the articles or the journals), I would
expect the same rules of courtesy to apply.

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through our contact page and if what you have to say is well articulated, we
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So, I just checked out the link for this Mike Adams, and I've got to say, his
site is filled with rose colored statements that really beg further
investigation.

First, he says that the water supply in Vilcabamba is secure. Vilcabamba has had
a long history of water problems. I remember a couple of years back when it
rained so much for so long that the water supplies were either contaminated or
off altogether, and the manager of the Jardin Escondido (a hostal in town) had
to divert water from the Jacuzzi just so that guests could take short showers.
Adams' statement that it rains for short periods, usually at night, is also "all
wet." It can rain for days on end - sometimes torentially.

Much of the food in Ecuador IS NOT organic. As has beens stated in the past on
this forum, there are still pesticides being used here that have been illegal in
the States for quite some time. Although the new codex alimentarius guidelines
which are supposed to go into effect at the end of this year will allow these
pesticide residues into your food worldover.

Homes in San Joaquin (where he apparently lives) are NOT affordable to most
middle class Americans. Do you have $250,000 to $350,000 to spend on a home in
Ecuador? And then pay the association fees, etc. each month? I don't. Nor would
I. It is a little American suburbia there. The 600 acres he brags about (largely
vertical) has had double the original number of homes built on it than were
planned and promoted, so that now many residents are check to jowl. And now a
high end hotel and spa is being completed on the property. How many
contradictions can one gated community tout?

Paying someone $12 a day to do your dirty work is shameful. Especially if you
can afford to live in San Joaquin. If you pay them on a full time basis, this is
allowable by minimun wage standards (provided you pay their taxes too, as
required by law), but it is not a reasonable standard of living. Especially in
Vilcabamba, where prices have been driven up by the $350,000 homeowners.
Consider that this amounts to $1.50 per hour for an eight hour day. So an hour
of hard work (cleaning, gardening - the things we don't want to do)will barely
buy them one of the cheap almuerzos we are all so tickled by. They'd have to
work almost two weeks to afford one night's accommodations at Montesuenos (Brain
O'Leary's place that he quotes as being rented for $100 per night). There are no
buses to San Joaquin, so how much does it cost them just to get to work? A taxi
from town up there costs at least $1.50-$2.00 (there goes an hour). Or, of
course they could walk the mile or two uphill, and many likely do. Costs are
going up and worker salaries are not keeping pace. We should know the drill -
it's why many of us (at least in part) moved here - for a lower cost of living,
because we couldn't keep our heads above water either. But to brag about how
little we can get away with paying someone to break their back for us is a sad
commentary. I have a housekeeper come once a week for half a day and pay her
$12. In exchange, I get a spakling clean apartment, a smiling face and someone
who sings the entire time she is here working. And I don't worry about my things
disappearing because someone needs to convert them to cash just to get by.

Back to organic produce...If you have the space and ability, grow it yourself if
you really want to know what's in it. Otherwise, there are places that
specifically sell organic only produce. There is one here in Cuenca on Doce de
Abril, near Av. de las Americas, and there is a fairly large organic section to
the market in either Cotacachi or Otovalo (sorry, I can't remember which).

Vilcabamba is a village in the southern region of Ecuador, in the Loja province,
about 45 km from the city of Loja. The valley of Vilcabamba is overlooked
by a mountain called Mandango, the Sleeping Inca, whose presence is said to protect
the area from earthquakes and other natural disasters.

The destination is a common one for tourists, in part because it is widely believed
that its inhabitants grow to a very old age. Locals assert that it is not
uncommon to see a person reach 100 years of age and it is claimed that many have
gotten to the ripe old age of 120. That is why it is often called “The Valley
of Longevity”.

For more information you can check it out at Wikipedia.

A few weeks ago we decided to take a few days off and drive to Vilcabamba because
we had not been there yet and wanted to look at a couple of properties. John started
writing to two guys in Vilcabamba more than 12 years ago. That is how he first started
to learn about this great country. The great thing about Ecuador is that we mostly
do not have to stop and think about finances. We can just up and do it because the
price of travelling, accommodation and food is so inexpensive.

The valley of Vilcabamba has been reputed for its ideal climate and as a place of
longevity. Vilcabamba is one of the few reputed longevity centers of the world.
We saw some old people but certainly did not know their ages. Different scientists
have said that the longevity is attributable to the ionization in the air and the
mineralized water that the people drink. But it could also be that the people tend
to be more relaxed than in the larger cities. The land and vegetation is lush so
no-one goes hungry.

We hired a friend’s Hyundai Tuscon and off we went early on Friday morning.
It is still a beautiful site to drive through the many mountains we have here in
Ecuador. The asphalt roads along most of the way have now been replaced with
concrete. Some parts are still under construction and sometimes you have to
wait for up to 30 minutes to let traffic come through from the other side of the
road. The concrete should be completely completed within the next 12-18 months.
The drive from Cuenca to Loja will then be much faster.

At these road stops there are always vendors who have made makeshift stores on the
side of the road. From little gas burners they send family members to sell
cooked corn on the cob and other food and drinks to the travelers. I said
to John what would be fantastic was if they had a good coffee machine and come around
and sell coffee to us. John’s reply was that it would only be me who was after the
coffee. There are few places in the smaller towns where you can buy a good
coffee.

Whilst at one stop I was watching an older indigenous person with his donkey.
The donkey was laden with bricks and the old man was unloading onto a verandah.
He was continually talking to the donkey and it seemed at times he was growling.
I wound down the window to take a photo. After he had finished unloading the
very strong little old man turned around and gave me “the finger”. Shock,
horror………………I don’t know if he was angry that I took his photo or annoyed with the
large traffic hold up and probably many people watching him. Quite funny really.
I certainly had no intention of upsetting him.

As we drove up to the top of the mountain I noticed the different dress of the indigenous
people. Most are dressed in black and the men wear three quarter pants.
I was later told that these are people that many years ago fled from Bolivia and
settled in this particular area.

The people here seem very happy……………oh with exception to the old man and donkey.
There are crops in the fields and on the side of mountains where you and I probably
would feel that we are going to fall down. I saw women milking cows and then
strapping big milk containers to their backs and walking up to their homes along
the side of these mountains, talking and laughing.

John let me drive for awhile while he had a sleep. I have not driven for months
so I thoroughly enjoyed it. It takes a little bit of getting used to because
I am not familiar with driving on the “wrong side of the road”. But it did
give me a sense of independence and freedom. Funny how driving a car can give
you that freedom feeling. I passed a young woman on a horse with the tiniest baby
strapped to her back. She probably has the same sense of freedom as I do when
I drive.
We stopped in Loja for a late lunch. Although it was not a long stop we observed
that it seemed like quite a busy city. Then we went on for another 40 minutes
to Vilcabamba, and quickly found our way to the town square. The town is quite
small, but is definitely not a one horse, one car town. The city square is
filled with some amazing characters from different parts of the world that have
now relocated and live here in this wonderful valley. You can also choose from a
wide variety of different restaurants.

You will always find an expat or two or three in the town square at most times of
the day. As I said above there are some amazing characters in this part of
the world. Some reminded me of different characters in movies I have seen.
We stayed in a B & B called “Montesuenos” (Mountain Dreams) which is owned and
operated by author/scientist/ex-astronaut Brian O’Leary and his wife, visionary
artist Meredith Miller. They have created a wonderful mountain top retreat.
They moved to Vilcabamba in 2004 and have created a very creative place to stay.
The gardens are an extravaganza of floral and greenery

We met some other guests who were also most entertaining and we quickly became good
friends. One even travelled back to Cuenca with us, and then took a drive down to
Ayampe with John. Both these guests have now returned to their homes (UK and USA),
with full intention of completely selling up and returning to Ecuador as soon as
possible.

Another friend who we met last September in Cotacachi, has since purchased
a large block of land very close to Vilcabamba. He has just returned back
to Ecuador with his family after relocating from New Zealand.

As it turned out these NZ friends were renting a home just down the bottom of the
mountain from where we were staying. The next morning whilst enjoying our
fresh coffee and enjoying the view and company our friend Pierre came knocking on
the door. The next day he met us in the square and we all went and checked
out his property.

It is a very beautiful block of land and extremely lush. The property is fronted
by a beautiful river which looks extremely clean and refreshing. We walked
up the property to one of two homes. The first home was built around 50 years
ago and obviously someones pride and joy at one stage. Now it has been left
abandoned we could still see the remains of the previous tenants. It’s incredible
to find that in this somewhat remote part of the country even Avon cosmetics comes
calling. There was an Avon booklet on an old table.

Pierre walked us to the now overgrown vegetable plot which had an abundance of plants.
There is a coffee plantation, bananas, orange trees, papayas and so much more.
Cauliflowers that had now gone to seed, cabbages and great fresh runner beans.

John and I left the group to walk the rest of the property, which by the way was
all uphill. I did not have proper walking shoes on. Well that’s my excuse.

I think for us John summed it up in one paragraph he wrote to a reader recently.

“I loved Vilcabamba. It has a great community feeling about it and there are many
expats there – some for over 20 years. The town center is fantastic as a social
area – better than both Cuenca or Cotacachi. If I was going to live in a rural retreat
area in Ecuador, it would be Vilcabamba. I have lived in remote areas of Australia
and this community runs rings around any of those places I have lived in. But it
is not vibrant enough for us at this stage of our lives. Some land prices are incredibly
high in different estates compared with other parts of Ecuador. “

John says above that he loved Vilcabamba. I thought it was very beautiful but I
can’t say I fell in love with it. We will definitely go back for a visit but personally
I would not go and live there.

We are probably going to be spending more time on the coast as the Ayampe development
takes shape.

We both love the coast and are looking forward to dividing time between the coast
and Cuenca.

Group - it has been my pleasure to sample coffees from all over the world. Thanks
in part to Starbucks and other major chains, as well as travelling across 8 countries
and 2 continents. I have lived most of my life drinking the commercially available
excuse for Columbian fresh ground coffee.

So now I wish to offer up my opinion on coffee within Ecuador. First off, I am appauled
by Nescafe. Instant coffee is so commonly found in restaurants throughout Ecuador.
However, for those of you that truly enjoy a fresh cup of home brewed heaven (I
drink mine black, so flavor is very important to me), two regions here in Ecuador
grown, roast, and distribute coffee that is far better than 90% of the coffees I
have ever had. And most importantly, it is cheap. But it will not be found in grocery
stores or Supermaxi.

The first is in Loja. The province of Loja produces coffee. There is a coffee mill
(cafe piladora) on the road from Loja to Vilcabamba. It is a coop and unless they
are rocessing, it appears to be closed. I was able to buy Loja coffee in small brown
bags from the Panaderias (bakeries) in Loja. If you happen to be on the main road
near the central produce market, there is a small bakery where you can buy this
coffee and they have the most excellent cheese bread. Its about the size of a football.

Secondly, Jipijapa. The Manabi was once the largest coffee producing region of Ecuador
until 'big name coffee companies' attempted to control costs. Much of the coffee
producing areas were bankrupted as they lost contracts. Then there was a drought
that all but destroyed the coffee industry in this region. Recently, however, coffee
production has seen some increases. Jipijapa has several coop piladoras and roasters.

Now for the best part. I have a local friend here that is a native to Puerto Lopez
that buys his coffee exclusively from one of the piladoras. Last week, I purchased
2 pounds of fresh ground coffee from Jipijapa for $5. That price included the bus
fare for my personal shopper from Pueto Lopez to Jipijapa and back to Puerto Lopez
and his time for making the trip.

Having purchased a Mr. Coffee for $65 at Megamaxi, I now wake every morning to my
fresh brewed mug of joy and lounge on the terrace overlooking the harbor until lunchtime.
(That is if we have electricty)

p.s. For those of you that know what real cream is, it is not a non-dairy or milky
gray substance. It is a thick cream, and according to those whom drink cream in
their coffee, there is nothing better. Fortunately, it is widely available here
as well.

editor's note:
There is a place where they roast coffee in Vilcabamba, between San Pedro and the
bridge. Is this the same one that Scott is talking about? They sell pure Arabica
for $2 a pound, they buy the beans from lots of small growers in the area (including
us, see photo below where we were weighing our bags) and do all the roasting on
site. The coffee is delicious. I buy directly from them all the time. The business
belongs to the Leon family which is well established in Sacapo. In fact they are
one of our neighbours.

There seems to be great contention amongst the real estate people in Vilcabamba,
mainly because some honest realtors came in and offered to do a free appraisal for
free of any real estate that anyone is interested in. This means that the
predatory people who are not registered realtors are losing their huge profits that
come from gouging new people who often make impulse buys. This is where the contention
comes in. If you can screw one or two people a year for six figures, you can do
quite well, and these people resent their gravy train getting derailed.

The other thing is that Vilca is a small town, and it seems like everyone here chooses
at least one person that they decide not to like, and then talk derogatory about
that person every chance they get. So eventually, if you hang around long enough,
you will hear some dirt on about everybody, whether it is true or not. We
have been here for four months, and I am sure you can hear some stories about us
by now too.

My wife and I decided early on that we simply were going to like everyone here.
We have a great time, have lots of friends and life is good. We bought our
property through a realtor, had excellent service, used the lawyer they recommended,
and everything went without a hitch. There was a creepy feeling for a few days wiring
six figure money to a lawyer's trust account to finish the deal, someone we had
only known for a few weeks. Not to fear, he showed me my money listed among
the other (unidentified) transactions of his trust account, and my little sum was
quite paltry in the whole scheme of things.

Expats here have a habit of asking how much you paid for something, and then telling
you a story about how they or someone else got it cheaper. To me, I find this
as intolerable as the gossip and do not put up with this kind of talk. If
someone purchased something and felt it was worth what they paid for, then as far
as I am concerned I should be glad that they found what they wanted. This
lowballing talk is quite offensive, and in the US we would never tolerate casual
acquaintances commenting on our financial affairs.

Vilcabamba is a quiet place and quite rural. Its like the gatekeeper said,
what were the people like where you came from? You will find the same thing here
until you decompress enough and stop looking for it.

I recently heard a talk by someone who is doing multiple community projects with
local people. She pointed out that most americans are transaction oriented.
Here in Ecuador, people are relationship oriented. If you can give up your
desire for the deal, then Vilcabamba/Ecuador can be a wonderful place to live.

And I loved the comment made by someone on this forum to not come to Ecuador with
solutions. Come with an open mind and heart and start working with the local
people who have identified what the real problems are and start working with them.
If you attempt to implement a solution without relationship with the community,
you simply become one more problem. On our real estate tour, there was a couple
who were intending to move here and start a church. I don't think they ever
actually saw Ecuador when they looked out the window of the bus.

Greetings from the beautiful Valley of Longevity in Ecuador and an update on the
real estate scene in and around the area.

Vilcabamba and the nearby villages continue to cast their spell on savvy world travellers
who recognise a unique location with unusual benefits when they see one. The highly
touted health benefits derived from the energy fields of intersecting ley lines
seem to bear out the legends.

In talking with many newly relocated gringos I hear stories of increased vigor and
decreased aches and pains.

It’s amazing how many people I hear from who have vague plans to move here upon
their retirement. But, like everywhere else in the world where the countryside
is beautiful and the living is easy, progress is inexorable. So my advice
is “Don´t wait much longer or you will miss the boat”. Vilcabamba has
sprung into the modern age with long awaited cellular service, internet (in most
areas) and several new and excellent restaurants and small businesses. This,
of course, means property values are rising though still a bargain by US standards.
No longer is it possible to buy country property for a few thousand dollars a hectare
and properties within the town have risen accordingly.

But let me back up a little with the welcome news that beautiful and valuable properties
are still available and are expected to continue to rise in value making for an
excellent investment. The days of $35,000 homes however are long gone and, to be
perfectly blunt, most of the homes in this price range that you may have read about,
would not be considered houses in the western sense. In order to inform (and certainly
not discourage) let me give you an honest and realistic picture of real estate in
the less populated areas of Ecuador.

So many of us look at a stunning piece of property, fall in love with it and set
in motion the process of purchase without fully understanding the challenges of
living or building in a less developed country than that to which we have been accustomed.
There are few paved roads outside of the towns and often only donkey trails to many
areas. Picturesque yes, but not so charming in the rainy season or when the novelty
of hauling everything (including groceries) on the backs of a 4 legged animal has
passed.

Most country dwellings consist of 2 to 3 rooms usually with dirt floors. Again somewhat
charming but with the potential to leave you with a lifetime of problems in the
rainy season unless everything is well sealed and protected by a sufficiently overhanging
roof. There would be no hot water (if any running water at all), no indoor bathroom
and often no electricity.

To upgrade these homes to even basic western standards can be relatively expensive
and their structure many be insufficiently sophisticated to be able to withstand
additional weight or change. Even the most adaptable Westerners prefer comfortable
toilet and bathing facilities and I know I am a bear all day if my morning shower
is ice cold. So what I am saying is that one must be realistic in figuring the actual
cost of a liveable home.

Occasionally a home with all the basic ¨luxuries¨ does come on the market and if
the price is fair I always recommend these as a first choice for those wishing to
move here with a minimum of unexpected and unbudgeted expense.

The alternative is to buy a nice piece of property and build your own home.
Normally it is considerably cheaper than trying to remodel something that may not
be architecturally sound (but keep that original 2 roomer while your home is being
built). You will need a secure bodega (storeroom) for your tools and supplies during
construction anyway. Of course you will also need a caretaker to live on the property
and safeguard your equipment while construction is in progress and, generally speaking,
even after you have moved into your new home.

You will appear to be very wealthy to the poor country dwellers here and things
have a tendency to disappear from your property overnight if you don´t take sensible
precautions especially if you are leaving the area for a few days.

Many folks however, are not planning to actually move here full time, but plan a
2 or 3 month stay each year and would prefer to take advantage of the eternally
spring like temps here and avoid the miserable cold of winter back home.

For them a nice place in or very near to, a local town is a much better choice and
much easier to find someone to keep an eye on their property while they are gone.

(It’s not easy to find a reliable caretaker to live out in the country in rather
isolated circumstances.)

It is possible to spend 3 months a year here on a visitor’s visa without any special
visa or legal expenses. Forget the much advertised $1,400 investors visa. It is
now very much a thing of the past and to qualify for an investor’s visa you must
now be prepared to put up $25,000.There are other attractive visas available for
retirees and other classifications and I would be happy to recommend excellent,
honest and reliable lawyers in Cuenca who specialize in immigration and customs
issues. They also have an English speaking attorney on their team so instructions
and information are always crystal clear to the non Spanish speakers. They can take
care of all the legalities including title insurance for your purchase so are an
invaluable asset should you decide to actually move here to live.

I also recommend that prospective property purchasers look around the general area
and not be fixated on Vilcabamba property. There are stunningly beautiful valleys
and mountains all over the Loja province. Pueblos like Malacatos, Taxiche
and Landangui are so close to Vilcabamba they share the same health promoting energies
but are, generally speaking, spared the hordes of backpackers and noisy revellers
that can make peaceful living difficult at times. Sometimes too, the prices
can be a little cheaper.

Bearing in mind all the above and making sensible decisions, I still believe this
valley to be one of Natures´ most beautiful and healthy places to live. I
am always glad to help you in your search for the perfect spot however, it is impossible
to tell you what is available for sale today and expect it to still be on the market
if you are planning your trip weeks in the future. As anywhere else in the world
¨hot properties¨ tend to sell very quickly. Occasionally I hear of something coming
up for sale on a certain date and can alert you but be prepared to hop on a plane
and hightail it out here or arrange for a lawyer here in Ecuador to have power of
attorney to act on your behalf.

Editor's note: below
are comments from a French web site. The comments are a little outdated. For example,
the internet is now much better than 2 years ago and, for better or worse, the pueblo
is not so quiet anymore at night. French is still a widely spoken language and one
can even enjoy its 4 main flavours: French, Belgian, Swiss and Canadian.