> Kirby, on the other hand, does the opposite - the point of his writing> is to achieve the opposite, to try to get people to vote against> universal health care by voting accordingly for the party and people> who would not expand and even start to cut the funding for even just> the existing programs.>

I don't think so Paul. Our household benefits from Medicare as wellas Social Security. Medicare is already a public-private endeavori.e. the government does not own the Catholic or other hospitals towhich remittance is made. The largest supplier of oxygen is Apria --again, not any more Federal than Federal Express.

> Either government will be involved in helping to pay for health care> or it will not. Either government's present role in helping to pay for> health care will expand, stay the same, or it will contract.>> I am arguing for it to expand. Kirby argues against that, with all> kinds of hints that he would like to see it contract.>

Definitely big governments should contract (KON tract) in thepreferred USA model, as the bias is towards small and medium sizedbusinesses on Main Street. The tattoo parlor and medical marijuanadispensary gets the checks for those covered. The big businesses tendto be viewed with more suspicion as they're global and send jobsoverseas (although some smaller businesses do that too).

> The necessary result of it even just not expanding is that the only> thing left to meet all that growing unmet need is charity.>> And yes, the unmet need is growing since the private marketplace is> rejecting a greater and greater percentage of the population, leaving> more and more with no health care. We now have close to 100 million> people - close to 1/3 of the entire population - that are either> under-insured with junk insurance with out of pocket expenses so high> they might as well not have insurance, or with no coverage at all.

It's true that hospitals are closing their doors to large numbers whohave no coverage. Lots more hospitals and clinics might be needed, toavoid this.

Many Americans get whatever basic health care in prisons, given howmany Americans have prison as their lifestyle, at least in somechapters.

The thing I was expressing to Paul was skepticism. Big governmentsmay be up to the job of providing higher living standards, but notevery big government is big in the same sense. Some are big dummies.

I don't think his Feds have the brains or the courage to be likeSwedes and take care of people with health care needs. They let "madkings" like Nixon-Kissinger go on bombing-killing sprees with wildabandon, plus there've been other orgies of violence ever since.Gitmo is still open for business.

They have no discipline, these camo-wearing Americans, these Feds withtheir herbicides and blow torches, taking out mom & pop crops, puttinga bullet into junior. They're like the orcs in Lord of the Rings.

I'm sad that Paul only has this failing poor excuse for a governmentto look up to, to think of as maybe getting "big" someday (in thesense of wise). Sweden's leaders likened the USA's actions to thoseof Nazi Germany during the height of the Vietnam War. That's when theUS ambassador was withdrawn (for a second time?) by the piggishcowards in DC and their fraudulent military (the good guys of whomwere in open or behind-the-scenes mutiny).

Good luck getting universal health care from such brainlesswarmongering numbskulls Paul, seems like a long shot.

I think a better plan would be for the 50 states to gradually distancethemselves from DC and make stronger alliances with more mature statesthat are more likely to last. But if you want to bolster DC then Isay go for it. Make it the object of your prayers. I just don't seehistory as being on your side, that's all.