All Kindle Fires sold to US customers will have home screen ads

Amazon said there will be no option to pay for an ad-free lock and home screen.

If you live in the US and want to buy a new Kindle Fire that won't show advertisements on the lock and home screens, you're out of luck. Unlike Kindle e-readers, which come in ad-supported and non-ad-supported models, there is no option for US customers to purchase Kindle Fires without "special offers" that display on the lock screen and the lower left corner of the home screen.

The ads are US-only, for some reason. "Kindle with Special Offers & Sponsored Screensavers is only available in the US," a note on the Kindle Fire product page states. Fire tablets are also available in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and the UK. (UPDATE: It turns out the ads aren't US-only, despite that Amazon statement. They're also on the UK, German, Spanish, and Italian versions.)

Amazon promised to give owners of ad-supported Fires a $5 credit to its MP3 store and a $5 credit toward "select titles" in its instant video store. Other screensaver advertisements will come from brands such as AT&T, Discover, and Intel with offers like "a $10 Amazon.com Gift Card when a customer uses their Discover card to purchase a digital product on Amazon."

Amazon has been selling Kindle e-readers with ads both on the lock screen and the bottom of the home screen for a couple of years. But the ad-support model for the latest Kindle Fire marks a shift in its strategy. The first Kindle Fire featured lock screens that Ars reviewer Casey Johnston found "stunning," with photos of retro objects like type sets, colored pencils, typewriter keys, and rolled up magazines. Kindle e-readers, meanwhile, allowed users to pay extra for devices that did not include the ads, and instead showed black-and-white images of famous authors. Even if you bought a Kindle with ads, you could pay the price difference to turn them off later.

We've asked Amazon why the ads are US-only, and whether customers can pay to turn them off. If there is such an option, it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the Kindle Fire announcements or the Amazon sales pages. The prices are quite good, though, beating or matching the prices of tablets of comparable sizes. A 7-inch Fire costs just $159 for the version without a high-definition screen, and the 7-inch HD version starts at $199 for a 16GB version. A 32GB version costs $249 (the same price Google charges for a 16GB Nexus 7). There is also a set of 8.9-inch Fire tablets ranging from $299 to $599, with anywhere from 16GB to 64GB of storage and the option to have 4G LTE connectivity in addition to standard WiFi.

When Amazon unveiled last year's generation of Kindle e-readers, it cost $40 extra to buy a Kindle Touch without ads. The e-readers unveiled yesterday also have different prices for the versions with and without special offers, but that difference has shrunk. A Kindle Paperwhite 3G, for example, costs $179 with special offers or $199 without. That $20 price difference holds true for all the new Kindle e-readers.

If you took the earlier $40 price difference to mean that each Kindle with ads was worth another $40 to Amazon in increased sales, then the change may suggest the ads didn't bring in as much revenue as Amazon expected. But the Fire has a greater ability to lure customers into buying Amazon products, whether it be digital music or video, or physical goods purchased through the tablet's Amazon store app. If the special offers both lower the price of the hardware, bringing in more buyers, and lead to additional sales from Amazon's various shops, it's easy to see why Amazon wouldn't want customers to turn the ads off.

UPDATE: Engadget reported (incorrectly, as we now know) that there will be an option to turn off ads. The confirmation came not from any public statement made by Amazon, but from a customer support representative's e-mailed response to an Amazon customer's question. "I understand that you would like to opt out of the special offer and willing to pay extra for opting out special offer. Options for unsubscribing special offer will be announced soon," the Amazon customer service rep told that customer, according to Engadget. That doesn't sound very official to us, so we'll wait to see if any more definitive word comes from Amazon.

UPDATE 2: Unfortunately, it turns out our suspicions about the reliability of the Amazon customer service rep were not without good reason. According to CNET, Amazon confirmed to the publication "that there will be no way to buy out of the Special Offers ads." Amazon has now also confirmed to Ars that no option to opt out of special offers will be available.

It's possible Amazon could change its mind and issue a software update allowing such an upgrade, but for now it is explicitly saying that it will not. (And yes, Amazon has now, one day later, changed its mind.)

Promoted Comments

I wonder what the current payoff in ad revenue is for Amazon? It seems unlikely to me that the revenue from these ads offsets the indirect costs of "cheapening" the appeal of the Kindle.

It's like if every new Honda Civic came with a coupon book in the glovebox. Sure, having the coupons there doesn't hurt me and might even lead to the discovery of a new restaurant or some great savings at the local amusement park... but it sure seems tacky, and by extension makes the car seem a bit lower in quality. Only, in this case I'm stuck with that stupid coupon book forever.

172 Reader Comments

Well, not only was I going to buy one for my wife, but I was thinking about possibly giving one away for a contest I was planning to run. Since they insist on bombarding me with ads, they not only lost one sale, they just lost two.

Ads on my kindle 4 haven't bothered me a bit. Doesn't anyone realize that to have such tech at such low prices, Amazon was going to make up for it somehow? Oh well, get the bitching out of your system, it's not as big of a deal as you guys make it out to be.

I do expect Apple to take full advantage of this when they announce their mid-tablet. No ads! (until you look at itunes or the app store)

I'll say this - if you are thinking of getting a Nexus 7 over a Kindle Fire because you don't like seeing ads, you're going to be disappointed. Keep in mind that *YOU'RE BUYING A TABLET FROM AN ADVERTISING COMPANY.* YouTube, Gmail, Maps, Google+, Search... They ALL are showing you ads based on the social graph on all the information you've given Google over the years. Even if you use a custom ROM, Google doesn't care as long as you use their services.

Kindles show only a few global ads per day, rotating in a non-obnoxious way, and may introduce an option to turn them off soon after launch. For that level of hardware at that price, I'm willing to share my lock screen.

Being that I am Canadian it would not affect me but that they are doing it in the first place anywhere would prevent me from purchasing one. The other problem is the OS, it seems to be an outdated hybrid of some sort of Android with Amazon screwing with a great OS. I am thinking of getting the Nexus 7 but I am going to wait to see if Apple offers a smaller iPad then I will do a comparison on specs and price. I went the an Android phone and use some Apple products so I am not a fanboy of either and which ever one will be the best deal will get my coin but this Kindle is not in the running now. I think this could be a deal breaker for a lot of people and I hope it is as this is not something I would want to see become any sort of standard.

I'll say this - if you are thinking of getting a Nexus 7 over a Kindle Fire because you don't like seeing ads, you're going to be disappointed. Keep in mind that *YOU'RE BUYING A TABLET FROM AN ADVERTISING COMPANY.* YouTube, Gmail, Maps, Google+, Search... They ALL are showing you ads based on the social graph on all the information you've given Google over the years. Even if you use a custom ROM, Google doesn't care as long as you use their services.

My partner has a Nexus 7, we both have Nexus S phones. You know what is missing from all three devices and the Google applications that we use on them?

I have the Kindle Touch with ads, and 99% of the time I use it, I'm actually using it. The amount of time I stare at the lock screen and/or the home screen is vanishingly small. (who spends quality time staring at their lock screen anyway?) They could put whatever they want on there and I'd never notice it.

If they can sell it to me $20 cheaper as a result, that's a good deal for me and apparently for them. Getting all up in arms over ads in unobtrusive places just isn't worth it to me.

And besides, we're already saturated with ads everywhere else. Hell, even this site has ads, right there with the content. Radio has ads. Television has ads. Frickin' driving down the highway has ads. All of which are much harder to avoid, and more intrusive than the Kindle's ads.

Y'all are free to make your own decision, but when you put it in perspective I think this is OK. And besides, if you care enough you can pay to get them removed, and that's a win-win for everyone.

EDIT: I'll ding them for conveniently forgetting to mention the ads in their unveiling, which is pretty crappy. But that's an entirely different discussion than this.

I got my girlfriend a Kindle 4 for her birthday and the very first thing I did was remove the ads (your Google-fu will be rewarded). I have zero doubt that an enterprising individual will release a similar exploit for the new versions. I don't have any ethical problem with removing these ads and neither should any of you.

It is that black and white. Google certainly pushes their Play Store, but you're also welcome to install and purchase material from other providers. Google doesn't lock you down. You can install the B&N or Kindle app on the Nexus 7 without any difficulty.

You can install third party app stores on the Fire without a problem. I use GetJar on mine. The only reason Google Play does not work without some hacking is because Google did not design their store as a stand alone app, but instead make it rely on underlying services that do not exist on many non-sanctioned devices. That is not Amazon's fault, and its reasonably easy to hack Google Play onto your Fire if you really wish to.

Quote:

Both the stock Kindle Fire and the Nook Tablet lock you in to their respective ecosystems. You can only purchase material on the device from Amazon and B&N, respectively. Both also lock down your memory, with my Nook Tablet I had 14GB available, 13 of which could only be used by media purchased and downloaded from B&N or the few apps in their app store. Which means no Google Play, or any Google app of any kind for that matter, and no apps from any of their competitors.

1) You can purchase material from any app that has a purchasing mechanism on the Fire. Install GetJar, and buy any app you like from their store and it will install just fine. You can also install the B&N app on the Fire just fine and purchase/read their books.2) While the Nook Tablet does indeed lock its storage down to mostly B&N apps, the Fire never did this, and all non-system area is available to the user out of the box.3) And as I mentioned above, the Google Play limitation is circumventable, but the situation only exists because of how Google designed thier app store.

BTW, I find it amusing that people are upset that the Fire is 'ad supported' and they want to instead buy a Nexus. Advertising is Google's lifeblood, you are paying for that device with ads, regardless of where you see them. But there is one important distinction: Amazon is not subsidizing the device with ads at all, they are subsidizing it with additional purchases, some of which may be ad driven. They are not gathering your info and selling it to third parties, or building user profiles and then permitting third parties to market to you. Google does both of those things, and in fact that is their entire business model.

I can't tell you the last time Google advertised something to me that I actually wanted. Conversely, I get useful Amazon ads at least once a week. Plus I know that info I share with Amazon is used excusively by Amazon, not marketed out to third parties. I'll take that over a Nexus 7 and its pseudo ad-free existence any day.

You can install third party app stores on the Fire without a problem. I use GetJar on mine.

GetJar is not a stock application and the vast majority of people who are purchasing the Kindle Fire are not as tech-oriented as Ars posters. It's trivially easy for me to dual-boot my Nook Tablet into ICS and do whatever I want on the device. That doesn't mean that everyone can do it, nor is either company developing their marketing strategy around my technical skills.

You can install third party app stores on the Fire without a problem. I use GetJar on mine.

GetJar is not a stock application and the vast majority of people who are purchasing the Kindle Fire are not as tech-oriented as Ars posters. It's trivially easy for me to dual-boot my Nook Tablet into ICS and do whatever I want on the device. That doesn't mean that everyone can do it, nor is either company developing their marketing strategy around my technical skills.

Wait, what? So I can use this same argument to claim that the Nexus 7 is 'locked down to Google only' because the average person is not aware of how to install GetJar and the Amazon App Store, right? I mean seriously, if this is your criteria, then the Fire is no more 'locked down' then the Nexus 7.

I have the Kindle Touch with ads, and 99% of the time I use it, I'm actually using it. The amount of time I stare at the lock screen and/or the home screen is vanishingly small. (who spends quality time staring at their lock screen anyway?) They could put whatever they want on there and I'd never notice it.

If they can sell it to me $20 cheaper as a result, that's a good deal for me and apparently for them. Getting all up in arms over ads in unobtrusive places just isn't worth it to me.

And besides, we're already saturated with ads everywhere else. Hell, even this site has ads, right there with the content. Radio has ads. Television has ads. Frickin' driving down the highway has ads. All of which are much harder to avoid, and more intrusive than the Kindle's ads.

Y'all are free to make your own decision, but when you put it in perspective I think this is OK. And besides, if you care enough you can pay to get them removed, and that's a win-win for everyone.

EDIT: I'll ding them for conveniently forgetting to mention the ads in their unveiling, which is pretty crappy. But that's an entirely different discussion than this.

From a practical standpoint, you're mostly right. But maybe some of us don't want to be bombarded with ads trying to sell us stuff we don't need everywhere we look. Maybe we like the idea of being treated like people instead of just consumers. And TV and radio shows don't cost me anything - ad revenue from those allow me to watch my shows for free. Whereas I've already paid money for the Kindle and for the e-books I'm reading on it - they already have my money, it's a scummy move to insist on asking me for even more.

great, so we get tyo PAY for the right to rwemove the ads, that don't come on competing devices. I was alreday questioning the value proposition of a tablet that's about the same price as the competition (what, you don;t think a 32GB iPad 8" or next gen Google tablet won;t be in the $350 range?), with them being less locked down and more openly supported, but now that there's an added cost for ads? Essentialyl, they should list the "unsubsidized" price, and then the savings for including ads, because that's exactly what they're doing, and the FTC should be all over the current misleading advertizing.

I wasn't really considdering this vs what I expect from the competition over the next few weeks eladin into the holidays, but now it;s a 100% NO SALE. The ads should be free to remove or offered as a free service, and the default needs to be not to include them, otherwise when considdering recommending this to anyone, I have to automatically include that price and note it as a ngative both, in addition to aother drawbaks a forked and locked down version of android already carry. Google, give me a nexus 8" with a better screen under $400 and you get my money instead of Amazon, its as simple as that.

I have the Kindle Touch with ads, and 99% of the time I use it, I'm actually using it. The amount of time I stare at the lock screen and/or the home screen is vanishingly small. (who spends quality time staring at their lock screen anyway?) They could put whatever they want on there and I'd never notice it.

If they can sell it to me $20 cheaper as a result, that's a good deal for me and apparently for them. Getting all up in arms over ads in unobtrusive places just isn't worth it to me.

And besides, we're already saturated with ads everywhere else. Hell, even this site has ads, right there with the content. Radio has ads. Television has ads. Frickin' driving down the highway has ads. All of which are much harder to avoid, and more intrusive than the Kindle's ads.

Y'all are free to make your own decision, but when you put it in perspective I think this is OK. And besides, if you care enough you can pay to get them removed, and that's a win-win for everyone.

EDIT: I'll ding them for conveniently forgetting to mention the ads in their unveiling, which is pretty crappy. But that's an entirely different discussion than this.

I have an iPad. Whenever I'm not using it, i leave it docked in a stand, charging, with a photo slide show playing. When we have company over, we put different sideshows as a form of background ambiance.

And yes, my wife and I do look at the pictures from time to time, and reminisce and comment on them.

We do the a similar thing with an Apple TV screensaver, while sitting in the living room, playing games or reading a book. It's a nice background show to have around.

If ads were displayed instead, that is one less added value I'd receive from my devices.

UPDATE: Engadget reports that there will be an option to turn off ads. The confirmation comes not from any public statement made by Amazon, but from a customer support representative's e-mailed response to an Amazon customer's question. "I understand that you would like to opt out of the special offer and willing to pay extra for opting out special offer. Options for unsubscribing special offer will be announced soon," the Amazon customer service rep told that customer, according to Engadget. That doesn't sound very official to us, so we'll wait to see if any more definitive word comes from Amazon.

It's been m,y experience that Customer Reps are not always the most knowledgeable people when it comes to a company's products.

I bet fi that same customer sent a new email out - and got a different Rep - they would have a different answer in writing. I bet if that person calls Amazon - they would get a third varied response.

And just like that, I've just cemented my decision to not buy a Kindle Fire. I won't be advertised to after I've paid for a product.

You mean like a TV? Or a web browser?

I've yet to purchase a TV or use a web browser that had hard-baked ads in them. There's a difference between the content and the conduit.

On another note - is Amazon required to release the source code for these Android based gadgets? I could see these being pretty popular among the hacker community due to current price/performance ratio.

Wait, what? So I can use this same argument to claim that the Nexus 7 is 'locked down to Google only' because the average person is not aware of how to install GetJar and the Amazon App Store, right? I mean seriously, if this is your criteria, then the Fire is no more 'locked down' then the Nexus 7.

Are you trying to be deliberately dense or are you just arguing for the fucking sake of arguing? Most users are going to get apps from the on-board app store. They don't know how to side-load, they don't realize that you can download and install third-party applications from websites. They don't know how to root, they don't know how to dual-boot. Their knowledge extends to whatever user tutorial is provided by Amazon.

You are not most users. You are a statistical aberration, a power-user who can circumvent what Amazon envisions of their device. And that's okay. But most people are not you.

Amazon doesn't like people like you. They don't want you to be able to do that. They want you to purchase from their list of approved applications. That's why GetJar is not in Amazon's app store. Or rather, it wasn't when I last looked at the Fire. If Amazon wanted most users to have access to third-party applications like Google Play or Nook, it would be made available in their app store. You wouldn't have to download and install a completely separate application to do that.

On the Nexus 7 anyone can navigate to Google's app store and download the Kindle app, the Nook app, Netflix, Pandora, and a range of applications that are not only support by the OS, but actively compete with Google. Amazon and B&N do not allow this, and in the case of B&N actively prevent you from doing so. Amazon does the same, to an admittedly limited extent. Neither is as bad as Apple about it. They're still a locked down environment.

They really underestimate how strongly some of us do not want our devices 'calling home'. I wish they would make it very clear how to avoid this in the material before purchase. Amazon is offering some interesting hardware, but to buy it, I would have to know how to use it independently without connecting to their 'store'.

For this reason, I went with the Nook Simple Touch, only to find out that they REQUIRED that I give them a valid credit card number and set up an account before the device could be even used as a reader! They offered to 'unlock' it only if I drove some distance to a physical store and made my request there.

I was about to return it as unusable, when I found an unpublished key sequence posted somewhere on how to turn off all wireless communications, with the result that I was able to unlock it and use it as a reader. This is all I wanted. It is a fine product, and I am happy with it. But I shouldn't have had to go through all that just to use the hardware.

If there is some easy way to do this with Amazon hardware, I'd be interested.

They are making the Google Nexus 7 look more enticing again. I'm hoping Google and Asus respond to the Fire HD with versions with more Flash. I was hoping Google might drop the price of the Nexus a bit as well, but if I'm going to have to pay to disable ads, then that helps Google's price look attractive.

I can always load the Amazon App Store and other apps on the Nexus as well as watch Amazon Prime Videos on it. I do it on my Android Phone now. Amazon is offering a defeatured Android tablet with ads. I don't think the price and their brand name are going to be enough.

Add me to the ranks of people here confused by all the consumerist-rage.

You buy a TV, you pay for cable TV/satellite - you see ads during shows.

You buy a computer, you pay for internet access - you see ads on sites that you visit.

You buy a magazine - you see ads.

Now, I understand the above 3 things might not be true for ALL of you (let's not be so opaque as to think a general statement is ever true for 100% of the population), but it's a perfectly adequate analogy. No one rages over the things above (or, if we have, we're not as loud as we used to be), and they happen on a near daily basis.

It's an ad. It's not stealing your soul. It's not holding you at gunpoint to buy something. All of this frantic hand-wringing over "invasion of privacy" because of what? The fact that they see what you buy and offer you something else you might be interested in? If you don't have the strength of mind to only buy things when you a) need\want them and b) can afford them, then you really shouldn't blame ads for being such a weak person.

I had more to say, but a McDonald's commercial just came on and now I'm jonesing for a Big Mac.

I would never buy something like this. Never. Ever. Ads do not work on me. I don't want them. They are a waste of my time and energy and constant source of frustration if I happen to see them. I'm already upset that I pay for content (cable TV) and still have to put up with ads. So I use a DVR.

And just like that, I've just cemented my decision to not buy a Kindle Fire. I won't be advertised to after I've paid for a product.

You mean like a TV? Or a web browser?

DVR and Adblock. Next question.

In other words, hacking your way around ads. Got it. Wait, that applies to the Fire too, right?

Not quite. AdBlock and the like are not "hacks," but consumer-oriented add-ons.

Premium channels, non-commercial television, and recorded movies and shows (iTunes, DVDs, etc.), are also consumer-oriented and readily available.

Compare that to a consumer device with no readily available option (at least not yet) to disable or avoid ads.

No, AdBlock is an evolution of a variety of things which were once legitimately "hacks" compared to the regular computer user scope. Before AdBlock, firewalls, proxy servers, and HOSTS file modifications were used to the same ends. Just because someone has packaged up those changes into a coherent and easy to use program does not change it's nature. The same applied to Betamax to skip commercials (setting timers on a VCR was once a PITA!!!), as much as Tivo was a technological evolution to make such things easier.

Equally so, disabling ads and adding additional app stores will trickle down to ease for consumers. It would be trivial to setup a website with a set of scripts to either run an exploit or install a 3rd party app store or ad blocker via direct download or e-mail.

Also, DVDs, Blu-Rays, and iTunes which you cite as examples are rife with forced advertising. Wtf are you smoking?

Troublesome Strumpet wrote:

reflex-croft wrote:

Wait, what? So I can use this same argument to claim that the Nexus 7 is 'locked down to Google only' because the average person is not aware of how to install GetJar and the Amazon App Store, right? I mean seriously, if this is your criteria, then the Fire is no more 'locked down' then the Nexus 7.

Are you trying to be deliberately dense or are you just arguing for the fucking sake of arguing? Most users are going to get apps from the on-board app store. They don't know how to side-load, they don't realize that you can download and install third-party applications from websites. They don't know how to root, they don't know how to dual-boot. Their knowledge extends to whatever user tutorial is provided by Amazon.

You are not most users. You are a statistical aberration, a power-user who can circumvent what Amazon envisions of their device. And that's okay. But most people are not you.

[...more whining removed...]

See above response.

Dynamo Hum wrote:

rpresser wrote:

hughesmar wrote:

And just like that, I've just cemented my decision to not buy a Kindle Fire. I won't be advertised to after I've paid for a product.

You mean like a TV? Or a web browser?

I've yet to purchase a TV or use a web browser that had hard-baked ads in them. There's a difference between the content and the conduit.

On another note - is Amazon required to release the source code for these Android based gadgets? I could see these being pretty popular among the hacker community due to current price/performance ratio.

No, with TV the ads are streamed along with the content, just like the Kindle. Web browsers are objectively worse. IE defaults to an MSN page full of ads out of the box, Firefox to Google, and Opera to a speed dial with Amazon and Kayak among the advertisers.

Wait, what? So I can use this same argument to claim that the Nexus 7 is 'locked down to Google only' because the average person is not aware of how to install GetJar and the Amazon App Store, right? I mean seriously, if this is your criteria, then the Fire is no more 'locked down' then the Nexus 7.

Are you trying to be deliberately dense or are you just arguing for the fucking sake of arguing? Most users are going to get apps from the on-board app store. They don't know how to side-load, they don't realize that you can download and install third-party applications from websites. They don't know how to root, they don't know how to dual-boot. Their knowledge extends to whatever user tutorial is provided by Amazon.

You are not most users. You are a statistical aberration, a power-user who can circumvent what Amazon envisions of their device. And that's okay. But most people are not you.

Amazon doesn't like people like you. They don't want you to be able to do that. They want you to purchase from their list of approved applications. That's why GetJar is not in Amazon's app store. Or rather, it wasn't when I last looked at the Fire. If Amazon wanted most users to have access to third-party applications like Google Play or Nook, it would be made available in their app store. You wouldn't have to download and install a completely separate application to do that.

On the Nexus 7 anyone can navigate to Google's app store and download the Kindle app, the Nook app, Netflix, Pandora, and a range of applications that are not only support by the OS, but actively compete with Google. Amazon and B&N do not allow this, and in the case of B&N actively prevent you from doing so. Amazon does the same, to an admittedly limited extent. Neither is as bad as Apple about it. They're still a locked down environment.

Amazon has step by step instructions on there website how to install the Amazon App Store on any android device. Its clear enough that even non-technical people can sideload it.

Not quite. An Amazon customer service rep told a customer in an e-mail that an announcement on how to opt out of the ads will be made later on, but it's not confirmed by Amazon itself. I'd say the sourcing is shaky (the customer service email is in somewhat broken English).

I did update the story, thanks for pointing this article out.

Ooops. I did not see your update to the story. Great that you updated the article.

I agree. Different cust service personal have different solutions/opinions. I agree, unless there is a official statement from Amazon, the reality is ads. Personally I don't think I am put off by the idea of ads. But I am concerned about tracking and targeted ads based on content viewed and location. I understand the general sentiment.

But look at this, google tracks you on Anrdoid, Apple does the same, now Amazon too! The other two don't push ads, Amazon does!

And this is on top of the 'tracking' Amazon does through affiliate websites - using the third party cookies so that when you visit Amazon's site, you are magically shown similar things that you had been looking elsewhere. I so much hate this intrusion into my 'trends' that I have explicitly added Amazon in the no-third-party cookies option in my browser.

Add me to the ranks of people here confused by all the consumerist-rage.

You buy a TV, you pay for cable TV/satellite - you see ads during shows.

You buy a computer, you pay for internet access - you see ads on sites that you visit.

You buy a magazine - you see ads.

Now, I understand the above 3 things might not be true for ALL of you (let's not be so opaque as to think a general statement is ever true for 100% of the population), but it's a perfectly adequate analogy. No one rages over the things above (or, if we have, we're not as loud as we used to be), and they happen on a near daily basis.

It's an ad. It's not stealing your soul. It's not holding you at gunpoint to buy something. All of this frantic hand-wringing over "invasion of privacy" because of what? The fact that they see what you buy and offer you something else you might be interested in? If you don't have the strength of mind to only buy things when you a) need\want them and b) can afford them, then you really shouldn't blame ads for being such a weak person.

I had more to say, but a McDonald's commercial just came on and now I'm jonesing for a Big Mac.

Wrong. In all the cases you mentioned, you got ads when viewing CONTENT, not from the hardware itself.

And just like that, I've just cemented my decision to not buy a Kindle Fire. I won't be advertised to after I've paid for a product.

You mean like a TV? Or a web browser?

DVR and Adblock. Next question.

In other words, hacking your way around ads. Got it. Wait, that applies to the Fire too, right?

Not quite. AdBlock and the like are not "hacks," but consumer-oriented add-ons.

Premium channels, non-commercial television, and recorded movies and shows (iTunes, DVDs, etc.), are also consumer-oriented and readily available.

Compare that to a consumer device with no readily available option (at least not yet) to disable or avoid ads.

No, AdBlock is an evolution of a variety of things which were once legitimately "hacks" compared to the regular computer user scope. Before AdBlock, firewalls, proxy servers, and HOSTS file modifications were used to the same ends. Just because someone has packaged up those changes into a coherent and easy to use program does not change it's nature. The same applied to Betamax to skip commercials (setting timers on a VCR was once a PITA!!!), as much as Tivo was a technological evolution to make such things easier.

Equally so, disabling ads and adding additional app stores will trickle down to ease for consumers. It would be trivial to setup a website with a set of scripts to either run an exploit or install a 3rd party app store or ad blocker via direct download or e-mail.

Also, DVDs, Blu-Rays, and iTunes which you cite as examples are rife with forced advertising. Wtf are you smoking?

Troublesome Strumpet wrote:

reflex-croft wrote:

Wait, what? So I can use this same argument to claim that the Nexus 7 is 'locked down to Google only' because the average person is not aware of how to install GetJar and the Amazon App Store, right? I mean seriously, if this is your criteria, then the Fire is no more 'locked down' then the Nexus 7.

Are you trying to be deliberately dense or are you just arguing for the fucking sake of arguing? Most users are going to get apps from the on-board app store. They don't know how to side-load, they don't realize that you can download and install third-party applications from websites. They don't know how to root, they don't know how to dual-boot. Their knowledge extends to whatever user tutorial is provided by Amazon.

You are not most users. You are a statistical aberration, a power-user who can circumvent what Amazon envisions of their device. And that's okay. But most people are not you.

[...more whining removed...]

See above response.

Dynamo Hum wrote:

rpresser wrote:

hughesmar wrote:

And just like that, I've just cemented my decision to not buy a Kindle Fire. I won't be advertised to after I've paid for a product.

You mean like a TV? Or a web browser?

I've yet to purchase a TV or use a web browser that had hard-baked ads in them. There's a difference between the content and the conduit.

On another note - is Amazon required to release the source code for these Android based gadgets? I could see these being pretty popular among the hacker community due to current price/performance ratio.

No, with TV the ads are streamed along with the content, just like the Kindle. Web browsers are objectively worse. IE defaults to an MSN page full of ads out of the box, Firefox to Google, and Opera to a speed dial with Amazon and Kayak among the advertisers.

I can barely see your shoulders with all of that sand.

Sorry but you're talking bollocks. My TV does not force ads on me. The content does. Though I don't see many ads here in the UK as the BBC covers most of my airtime TV. If you think it's OK for a device to show ads then fine, but it's a strange world you inhabit.

I wouldn't necessarily call these "Ads;" they really are more "special offers" ala Groupon, etc. In my experience, I've seen some pretty sweet special offers too--discounted Amazon gift cards, free MP3s, etc. I'm not seeing the big deal about this (as it's entirely likely you'll be able to pay to remove the ads), except that most of the people up in arms seem to have already decided to buy a Nexus 7 instead (or have already bought one and feel the need to justify their purchase). At least one person was honest about this.

Don't care about the ads, they actually do not look bad and the homescreen is not exactly intrusive.

I have a bigger problem with the lockdown on Amazon services. As someone has managed if I buy the Nexus I can install an Amazon application. Perhaps not as convenient as the Kindle but not that far off. So why would I buy the locked-in device again? Price seems to be the same.

The only advantages of the Kindle seems to be the data plan which is actually pretty awesome if you wanted a 3G device.