Open thread 6-17-05

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don/alan/rogerrabbit/cybil/Donnageddon, I have to ask this: Are you a man or a woman? Some of your commentary has a feminine slant and other commentary has a masculine one (I stole that from pacman). and DON, I especially like that corncobb idea for you, it’s a much better shape. remember now, in the front.

Last weekend I saw BBS: The Documentary a very well done documentary about the BBS movement and culture. If you ever visited a bbs or two in the eighties you might recognize some of the “sysops” that are interviewed.

Some standout episodes in the series (there are eight episodes) include episode 5 about the ANSI art scene and episode 8 which tells the story of the conflict between SEA and Pkware – a great example of a community or culture taking a nasty turn on one of it’s own.

Of course, there are many similarities between the BBS’s and blogs. Check it out!

I have been wandering around the sidelines on much of the “debate” tendered on Goldy’s blog lately. I have seen the invocation of God’s wrath on at least two occasions by both right and left. Rhetoric and debate points aside, let us try to stay within the realm of the living, as this item from former Senator Danforth illustrates.

I think it was righton who asked what the culture of Mohammed has brought us recently: One “contribution” which that particular society has made is the enforcement of the clitoridectomy-at-birth…is there anything wrong with that?

comeon headless; you can complain about bush, and all this but you live in one of the best places in the world. Aside from maybe Sweden or Bora Bora, you are healthy, well fed, and not getting shot at.

First you point to a truly great commentary by Republican John Danforth (this admiration from an atheist and a liberal) then you point to a truly puke inducing rubish bullshit foul totally skewed and putrid completely wrong-on-every-count peice of crap from RealFacistPolitics.com.

Score – negative 5 million.

Then you point out a rarely used practice by some crazy fundamentalist muslems. Trying to pathetically bring together christians in a holy war against muslems.

I have a question… How many muslims are there is the world and how many of them are “crazy fundamentalists”. I know there is no scientific hard number that can be found.. just gut feeling. I tend to think that there are around 1 billion muslims in the world with 150 to 200 million being the “crazy fundamental” type. Am I wrong?

You can’t “Rock the Cradle of Love” if you break off the handle. Additionally, lubrication could be a problem in such a dry environment and with the pleasure button removed. They must be crazy! But, then again, we chop off the tips off all the little boys’ penis supposedly for cleanliness.

Stop being so paranoid. I can give you the 1930’s if you will just sign this release form allowing me to do so…you know, lawyers being as they are won’t let me practice my wicked arts without your consent (Damn them!!!)…

Female circumcision is primarily a social practice, not a religious one. It is today a mainly African cultural practice. It crosses the lines of various religious groups. It is found among Muslims, Christians, Ethiopian Jews, and Animists.

Many African Muslims believe that female circumcision is required by Islam. In fact, no form of genital modification and mutilation is mentioned in the Qur’an, but only in disputed hadiths.

So in conclusion, I was wrong about the occurance rate of Clitoridectomy, and Mark is still a paranoid racist nazi for describing it as a practice enforced by Mohammed.

Trying to pathetically bring together christians in a holy war against muslems[…]If it exists, Hell awaits you[…]

So in conclusion, I was wrong about the occurance rate of Clitoridectomy, and Mark is still a paranoid racist nazi for describing it as a practice enforced by Mohammed

The name is marks…Heaven will wait, I guess…but you miss the point. Not the first time, by my guess…unless “apologetic” is your answer to millions of women in cuffs, er..ahem… Hey, culture has no meaning when Bush can be blamed for any wrong, not that there is anything wrong with that. It is so easy…and you are lazy…

@ 5 “I think it was righton who asked what the culture of Mohammed has brought us recently: One ï¿½contributionï¿½ which that particular society has made is the enforcement of the clitoridectomy-at-birthâ€¦is there anything wrong with that?”

Now we have learned that this was not a a practice brought to us by the “culture of Mohammed”.

You see Marks, when a Liberal is wrong, they own up to it. When a NEO-CON NAZI is wrong… they just keep spreading the lie.

I don’t have any more use for Islam than I do for Christianity or other obvious nonsense, but western culture owes plenty to the Islamic world (philosophy, math, medicine). The Renaissance (rebirth of classic thought) was only possible because Muslims preserved the classic texts while Christian Europe engaged in centuries of internal warfare, much of it religiously inspired.

Christianity had centuries of bloody aggression while the leaders of Islam routinely treated people of other religions with compassion and respect (see Richard Lionheart vs. Saladin, Islamic control of Jerusalem).

Now the Islamic world has to figure out if it’s going to be dominated by backward, repressive fascists or step into the modern, humane world.

Just because Christianity has already passed through it’s vicious, murdering phase (I can hope) doesn’t make it any better than Islam.

Well, because I’m egotistical enought, and this is a proper thread for it:

I can’t take it any more. Having seen the pain we have caused the minnow and his followers, I have to come clean.

Yes, we stole the election. With the help of the Rand Corporation and reverse vampires we were able to carefully screen all ballots in the state, know exactly how they were marked, and then through an incredibly complicated formula decided whether in King County to destroy a Republican ballot, make sure it was lost, or stuff a pro-Gregoire ballot into the mix.

The most brilliant part of the plan, and it was Goldy that came up with this, was having a list of the names of felons that we could quickly fake votes in favor of Gregoire with. I mean, they’re felons. If they say they never voted, who will believe them? The clincher, though, and credit here goes to GBS, is to make sure we put in four votes for Rossi and one for Bennet so if anyone was to question it, we could show them those five. You have to admire such cunning.

I think it was dj who thought we should then hide a couple hundred good Gregoire ballots so if things got close on a recount, we could leak that they were not counted and get someone outside our cabal to demand they were counted. And we pulled all of this off while there were thousand of GOP lawyers and poll watchers watching every step of the way.

And of course it was my idea to mess up the books just enough that people like ss minnow would focus at the obvious mistakes and not worry about actually proving anything. As great as our other machinations? no, but it did its part. Think of the hours ss minnow spent with his spreadsheets when if he had just picked up the phone and called around, the whole thing falls apart. I am sorry, Stefan. I am truly sorry.

Sadly, I don’t know all the details. How we were able to slip money to Dale Foreman so that he would sink his argument by making claims about fraud when he knew there was no evidence was beyond our little cell. Making sure that Judge John “Stalin” Bridges was elected and in place in Chelan took years of planning. Of course the piece d’ resistance was making sure that the GOP forum shopped to Chelan County. If they had filed in King County and received a judge that wasn’t in our pocket, it all would have fallen apart.

Then again, Kirby Wilbur has always been a part of the cabal, and it was he himself who suggested making sure the King County GOP make a bigger mistake, percentage wise, in their ballot count. I thought it would be impossible to do with less than 500 votes, but he found a way, he found a way. Genius, absolute genius.

But, of course, it is costing us a ton to keep Rob McKenna and Norm Maleng in our pocket. Do you know what it costs to bribe a federal prosecutor? We are not talking chump change here. We are talking Hallaburton dollars people.

And this was just the first time we have tried. Mistakes were made. We did all of this cheating, but no one thought about making sure that Deborah Senn would win. We were fools! Fools I say! We had everything, but all we can show for it is winning the Governor’s election by 133 votes. It should have been so much more! We should have fixed this election like Bush fixed intelligence. But who am I kidding; George W. Bush is just at a different level from our little operation.

But enough! Enough I say. The lies, the cheating, the fraud must stop. I might be the first, but I call on all of the left to join me and come clean! Say Hallelujah and let go of your sin.

By the way, for those of you interested in joining our little cabal and helping us fix the next election, along with destroying the family, aborting all fetuses, imposing communism upon everyone (but, of course, only after raising taxes through the roof), and letting all criminals go free, or just wonder how we are able to do all of this, we meet on Thursdays at 8:30p at the Denny’s on Mercer. Give the secret pass word, “Can you hook me up like Rush Limbaugh,” and order the veal. We will be more than happy to have you.

Thank you for letting me clear my soul of my sins. Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a soul like me…,

JDB– WTF??? Your life is akin to a terminal case of permarhoids. Were you sitting in the Lotus position typing random brain farts?? Put your energy into real estate investments, the stock market or a hobby like scratchin’ yer nuts with yer salad fork….anything but weak attempts at humor!! You are a pathetic sack of shit.

Hey, have any of you dickheads seen Cinderella Man???? Russell Crowe plays the boxer James J. Braddock. Not a baaaad flick….if you enjoy boxing and appreciate a guy who clawed his way to the top.

I am not sure about what I have been seeing in the news lately about Boeing Field. It would be nice to have some airliners bigger than a Cesna Caravan(10 seater) pull into the passenger terminal there, and it makes sense for Southwest to move there, as in other cities, they fly into small airports. but it would be a big impact on Sea-Tac if Southwest moves.

If Southwest moves to Sea-Tac, it could stabilize the airport’s finances, keep landing fees for General Aviation low, and allow King County to get more use out of an under-utilized asset that just celebrated it’s 75th Birthday, the Passenger Terminal at King County Airport.

Most of the cost is eaten up in fuel. At Newark, they took about $5 per passenger, and paid to extend the Airport’s Peoplemover 1 mile to a major rail line, the Northeast Corridor, giving New Yorkers an airport-rail connection.

Fuel costs, in addition to infrastructure improvements are eating up the airlines. I heard that a few airlines have taken to flying a little slower, some taxing with only one engine on. Also, the airlines are lucky, they do not have to fund and operate the FAAs Air Traffic Control Network, with regional centers and towers at every airport. The Railroads do not have this subsidized dispatching and traffic control system, so to cut costs, most of them consolidated dispatching at one center. In the case of BNSF, no matter if it is a Grain Extra on some Prarie Branch Line on the Great Plains, to commuter trains in Dallas, Chicago, or Seattle, to an Intermodal Container Train speeding on the LA-Chicago Transcon line, they are all tracked and dispatched by just 100 people in Fort Worth, over a massive trackage.

That’s the title of a 797-page report that gathers the documentary evidence and lets readers decide.

We already know Ken Blackwell is a highly partisan figure who co-chaired Bush’s re-selection campaign in Ohio, and in the aftermath of the disputed election tried to suppress investigations, going so far as to go after lawyers who questioned the results. We already know Ohio experienced long waiting lines, massive problems with voting machines, and widespread allegations of irregularities on Election Day. We already know the official Ohio results are at serious variance with exit polling. And here in Washington where the problems weren’t one-tenth of what happened in Ohio, we’ve seen Republican partisans screaming “fraud!” Should Democrats be screaming “fraud!” over Ohio?

You bet your ass we should.

Some key issues:

“Despite repeated pre-election calls from officials across the nation and the world, Ohio’s Republican Secretary of State, who also served as Ohio’s co-chair for the Bush-Cheney campaign, refused to allow non-partisan international and United Nations observers the access they requested to monitor the Ohio vote. While such access is routinely demanded by the US government in third world nations, it was banned in the American heartland.

“A post-election headline from the Akron Beacon Journal cites a critical report by twelve prominent social scientists and statisticians, reporting: ‘Analysis Points to Election “Corruption”: Group Says Chance of Exit Polls Being So Wrong in ’04 Vote is One-in-959,000.’

“Citing ‘Ohio’s Odd Numbers,’ investigative reporter Christopher Hitchens, a Bush supporter, says in Vanity Fair: ‘Given what happened in that key state on Election Day 2004, both democracy and common sense cry out for a court-ordered inspection of its new voting machines.’

…

“Hundreds of Ohio African-American voters give sworn testimony that they were harassed, intimidated, deprived of voting machines, given faulty ballots, confronted with malfunctioning machines and hit with a staggering range of other problems that deprived them of votes that were destined for John Kerry, votes that might have tipped the Ohio outcome.

“A team of high-powered researchers discover results in three southern Ohio counties where an obscure African-American candidate for the state Supreme Court somehow outpolls John Kerry, a virtually impossible outcome indicating massive vote fraud costing Kerry thousands of votes.

“Up until 11pm Eastern time on election night, exit polls show John Kerry comfortably leading George Bush in Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania and New Mexico, giving him a clear victory in the Electoral College, and a projected national margin of some 1.5 million votes. These same exit polls had just served as the basis for overturning an election in Ukraine, and are viewed worldwide as a bedrock of reliability. But after midnight the vote count mysteriously turns, and by morning George W. Bush is declared the victor.

…

“In this volume, we have attempted to present many of the most crucial of those documents. Do they prove that George W. Bush stole the US presidential election of 2004? Should John Kerry rather than Bush have been certified by the Electoral College on January 6, 2005? Historians will be debating that for centuries. What follows are some of the core documents they will use in that debate:

“The most hotly contested evidence comes most importantly from Ohio, whose 20 electoral votes decided the election. But it also comes from other key swing states – especially Florida and New Mexico – where exit polls and other evidence raise questions about the officially certified vote tallies in favor of Bush.

“As mentioned, this book presents the most crucial documents indicating how this bitterly contested election was actually decided.”

…

“While the alleged irregularities, frauds and illegalities that transpired here in 2004 have probably generated the most thorough documention of any state, important parallel assertions have arisen in other states around the country, most importantly Florida and New Mexico.

“As journalists and researchers with deep roots in Columbus, the state capitol, we warned of serious problems developing in how Ohio’s 2004 balloting was being administered even before the actual votes were cast.”

My friends, should we keep talking about Ohio, raising issues, seeking answers? Yes, yes, yes. Not for the purpose of contesting the election — the time for that is past — but to learn what went wrong and take remedial actions to prevent the voting problems that occurred in 2004 from recurring in future elections. We must do this regardless of whether one concludes the 2004 presidential election was stolen, or merely beset by problems that make Washington’s election look like a model election by comparison.

“Reports surfacing in other precincts verified that technicians dismantled key electronic machines before a recount could be certified. Election officials in Franklin County (where Columbus is located) reported that 77 of their machines malfunctioned on Election Day, virtually all of them in heavily Democratic precincts.

…

“The controversy surrounding the voting machines remains extremely fierce in part because major manufacturers such as Diebold, ES&S, Triad, and others are controlled by partisan Republican companies with secret proprietary software.”

“To date, there has been no credible, independent audit of these machines, not in Ohio or in any other state. In Ohio, Secretary of State Blackwell issued an order in the weeks following the election that all 2004 election records, paper and electronic, were to be sealed from public access and inspection. As of this book’s publication date, those records remain unobtainable.”

My friends, I have a proposal: Let’s take up a collection to send Mr. Cynical — a widely reknowned CPA* and HA’s resident expert** on performance audits — to Ohio with a large supply of empty BIG BINDERS to get to the bottom of this.

Mr. C, why waste your time fooling around with Washington when you can play in the big leagues?

* Within his own tiny circle of friends and BIAW associates ** in a self-appointed manner of speaking

Anticipating that some of the wingy trolls will now excoriate me for 3 posts in a row on the same subject, I merely point out that Ohio’s “model election” — I’m being sarcastic [raucous animal laughter noises in background] — is such a huge subject that it’s easier on my legions of readers, fans, and admirers if I split it up into three segments. [applause in background]

In the good news department, Bush is at all time lows in his approval ratings. Congress (dominated by repukelicans) is only at 33% approval ratings. And the war for oil is not enjoying much support. More than 50 percent said it’s a bad idea. Maybe Bushco and the GOP will have to pay after all for all the lies and damage they’ve done to this country.

In the good news department, Roger Rabbit is at all time lows in his approval ratings. HA (dominated by ego driven lefty blowhards) is only at 33% approval ratings. And the war insiode Roger’s thick skull for Don’s true persona is not enjoying much support. More than 50 percent said it’s a bad idea. Maybe Don and his multiple state-funded pension accounts will have to pay after all for all the lies and damage they’ve done to our sorry brains by our wading through his maniacal multiple postings.

Maybe you’ll learn how to take a joke someday. Keep posting, Don, knock your nutty self out pal. Just don’t get your undies in a bundle when somebody makes light of your most annoying personality defect, because….you asked for it.

In my job I travel 50 weeks a year. I use this blog to try and stay abreast of current events, and the current thinking in our state. Unfortunately, I now have to slog through 50 posts by Rabbit in order to find out how anyone else thinks. I am an independent, and don’t really believe that spewing hate for the R’s or the D’s will do ANY of us any good.

I WANT to vote for a good, solid, pro-labor, pro-union, Democrat, without getting caught up in gay rights issues, or abortion issues. I believe we need a person to run against Corporations and Lobbyists. I don’t believe Social issues will win the Presidency in 2006. Does anyone out there believe John Edwards is going to get to run again? If not, who can do it?

Thank you for all thoughtful, inciteful answers. (rabbits need not reply)

fire one; i think your party left you in the dust. Mine won’t work for you. Candidates….yipes not sure there are any . Lane Kirkland 10 yrs ago,

Trouble is China is taking our jobs and we’re all buying cheap crap and helping that happen. Not sure unions have any clout, save perhaps for teachers and other public employees. But old fashioned mfg and trade unions are pretty limp.

“Rabbit” posted only 7 times, not 50 times as you allege, up to your #50 so it appears you can’t count any better than Chardonnay. Most of us can count to 7 on our toes, even my web-footed duck friends. Did you lose 5 of your toes? Why did you stick your foot in the blender? Did you confuse the blender with your mouth?

So now “fire_one” is pretending to be a “good, solid, pro-labor, pro-union, Democrat,” that particular streetcar sure is getting crowded. Why do these Repub trolls always try to pretend to be ex-Democrats? Where did that get that from, Lush Rimbaugh?

If they want to know why liberals are getting aggressive all they have to do is read anything written by Coulter, or listen to Carlson, Limbaugh, O’Hannity, Falwell, Robertson, Dobson, or any of the other right wing haters for a few minutes.

Wingers INVENTED attack politics. And now they’re complaining because mud is being thrown back? Fuck them. Fuck the horses they rode in on, too.

The righties have gotten used to having almost all the media discourse go their way. Doesn’t it seem like they reallly can’t handle an opposing view or argument? Maybe that’s why the winger trolls over here get so irate. Like my Dad when we’d argue about Viet Nam…he didn’t understand why ANYONE (least of all his son) would disagree with him. It didn’t matter what kind of facts I came up with…he wouldn’t believe me, or even listen to what I had to say. Doesn’t it seem like something similar is going on here? An opposing view is not “just a view”, it’s a personal attack.

I’ve got another question…Just what happens to these folks (our righty friends and neighbors) if/when Bush goes down…and what if he/they go down hard. This will be ANOTHER huge test of the strength of our democratic institutions and of our collective faith in each other as Americans. The THIRD in our lifetime.

To my horsesass friends “if and when Bush goes down” is about as likely in this country as Gregoire going down in this state. You may barely continue to rule this state , but Red rules the country. Unfortunate but true! Sorry!

I suspect you are right that Bush will not be forced out of office. He has successfully lowered the standards and expectations for presidential behavior so that overt lying to Americans, illegally invading countries, “outing” unfriendly CIA agents, assassinating criminals without due process, and torturing suspected criminals fail to catch the public’s outrage (or even their attention).

Even so, after he leaves office, we are going to treated him to a free vacation in The Hague.

Yup I guess I suspected a judge might rule that 1500 plus illegal votes could sway an election won by 129. I guess not if that judge was put in by a democrat I guess. Too much to expect that a election contest is possible in this state without dragging lying felons through court. But we will watch the next election and see how the tax happy liar does!

Judge ha ha Logan was hand picked by Democrat Ron Sims which even the Sims hand picked Election Task force has a pretty damning report of the way he is chosen and not elected. As well as a damning report of the Election Department. You may have stolen this one, but you will not steal another on in this state.

DJ, GS – you guys are having a good exchange and I hate to butt in, but I’d like your thoughts on the fact that the survey questions, answers and comments were intended to be withheld from the King County Council & general public.

I was laughing so hard at that one (even though I think he believes he is one) I want it on my wall of fools too!

Also DJ you are the one that is full of shit, they just paid $187,500 bucks for their lack of proper disclosure!

OLYMPIA—Today the Public Disclosure Commission (PDC) announced that the Washington State Democratic Central Committee (WSDCC) failed to disclose debts and donor information in a timely manner, as required under the law (RCW 42.17.080 and 42.17.090). To avoid further investigation by the state attorney-general, the Democrats agreed to pay fees and penalties totaling $187,500.

$100,000 of that money is re-imposed from a suspended fine from two years ago when they failed to properly disclose $5.9 million spent and received a $250,000 fine.

GS, it is you who lacks any credibility, you stated that the presiding judge was appointed by a democrat, not realizing of course that he (judge Bridges, not Logan you ass) was elected by his conservative constituency.

Ignorance? Well that is quite a tall load for you libs to be flaunting. And for your information I WAS CORRECT IN MY STATEMENT! You assholes who are quick to flap your trap are wrong here

Bridges grew up in Chelan County. He was appointed to the bench by Democratic Gov. Booth Gardner in 1988 — the same year Gardner appointed a lawyer named Christine Gregoire to be his Ecology Department director.

Chardonnay: I think PacMan said it best. Donngeddon sucking on the big johnson, I think donnageddon likes little johnsons. What did he say “white liquid breath”? Now that’s funny. But really everyone, Donna Geddon is Donna Geldon is Donna Gelding is Donald Gelding, a fixed man! Jim West spurned Donald Gelding, when upon inspection, there was nothing upstairs in the head, “Vacancy lights flashing in the eyes” and nothing below “Gelded”. By the way Donald Gelding, GS left a very large deposit into your mouth, with knowing when Judge Bridges was appointed. Do the pixel in the mixture tast good too? Ha ha ha.

This will piss off the lefties. There is a bill being proposed in Congress to modify the 22nd(?) amendment, to allow Bush to run for a 3rd term.

#41 Rabbit – Please see the other thread, I apologized to you. Now for this thread, buy me the book and I am open minded to read it. But if this book is left wing democrapic swill, I will diss this until the earth ends. You know me, I will report excepts from this if it is found out to be partisan. But if it has real researched information, I will consider it.

Donnageddon: Is your single brain cell getting lonely? Are you working it overtime? Looks like Rufus has it right again. You righties should thank GS for researching Judge Bridges. That being said, how can one subtract from the vote total the 1678 illegal votes. Will the official records say 2.8 million cast – 1678 illegal votes found? That seems strange, but hey we have strange stuff in Californeea. I love our tourism commercial. It has Arnold and Maria.

Since this the open thread: This guy, Dean Schwartzmiller (potentially mostested +30,000 boys) was arrested last month in Snohomish County, Wash. Who does he know up there? This is real scum, and the speculation down here is that he’s a Democrat. This guy doesn’t live too far from me. Yuck!

This is why right minded people dislike the 9th Circuit of Appeals: In August 1987, the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals overturned Dean Schwartzmiller’s 1981 conviction. At his retrial in 1989, Schwartzmiller pleaded guilty to one count of lewd and lascivious behavior and agreed to drop civil suits against his accusers. In return, prosecutors dropped the additional charges against him, and he was set free. Set free; to do his damage to little boys. Thanks again 9th Circuit, full of lefties!

This must stick in your craw. I use a lefty to make my point again: http://www.time.com/time/magaz.....-2,00.html Excerpt: GELDOF: America doesn’t have a lack of empathy; they just don’t know the issues as well. Actually, today I had to defend the Bush Administration in France again. They refuse to accept, because of their political ideology, that he has actually done more than any American President for Africa. But it’s empirically so.

What more than Bill Clinton? Did you lefties watch “Hotel Rwanda”, where Bill Clinton’s administration rushed (pun intended) to help the Rwandan genocide? No, they did nothing!!!! Who was it on here who mentioned Bush’s lack of concern for the Sudan? I guess Geldof sees it differently!

Then http://contactmusic.com/new/xm.....redibility – all because Bush and Blair want to help poverty stricken peoples, the other rockers (Sinead O’Connor – queen of rants) are pissed at Bono for accepting their help? See what I say about lefties, can’t meet half way!

I love it, I love it! What has Al Franken, Randi Rhodes or other AA freaks given to African Aid? Speculation: Probably the same $353 Al Gore gave in 1997 to charities. Hey big spenders!!!

Where is the HA agreement (Goldy headline), on the Klansman being tried for the deaths outlines in Mississippi Burning movie? Shouldn’t he be given the death penalty?

All HA Lefties: I am still waiting for you all to congratulate Clarence Thomas on his disagreement on medical marijuana? What did you say? I can’t hear you? I still say you lefties dislike or hate all minorities who left the reservation and broke out on their own.

Wow, I think I’ve covered enough for the HA lefties to cogitate upon a while.

Radish, your comments of Saladin ring very true. But I don’t think you can equate the sins of the Roman Catholic Church to Christianity. If you read Foxes Book of Martyrs, it will become very apparent that many Popes were corrupt and only wanted to enhance their position not spread Christianity as Jesus wanted it spread. Anyone who wanted to understand the truth for themselves during the middle ages was labeled a heretic and hence was met with many forms of punishment to recant. Why do you think Martin Luther placed his Ninety-five Theses denouncing the sale of indulgences, to the door of the chapel at Wittenberg? Where in the Bible do you buy your way into heaven?

Read what Durbin said, guy. Not what Hannity says Durbin said…what Durbin REALLY said. If you can take two deep breaths, shut Rush’s voice off in your head and READ what Durbin REALLY said…what Durbin REALLY said makes sense and is a point we…ALL of US…Right and Left…should be having a serious discussion about.

But you won’t take the time. Because this is about making the other side look stupid and wrong. No dialogue, no discussion. “I don’t like what you say, I don’t want to hear it, It’s not what I want others to think, it’s gonna make me look bad, so I’m gonna show everybody that you are a traitor…that’s right! Unamerican. A commie. A Hippie. A pinko fag. A leftist pinhead. WTFever. Because I’VE got the mike. I’VE got the bully pulpit. I roool, YOU DROOOL.”

Go on. Really read it. I dare you. Tell me what he REALLY said, then we can talk. OK?

Rujax, I watched on Sunday morning what he said last week as I was using my skillz to pay de billz. I was on airplanes this past weekend. I haven’t heard Hannity or Rush for the last two weeks, as I am working during their broadcast hours. And I will miss them this week working out of town. So why on late Friday when most papers are already in bed with their editions does he come out and make a fake mea culpa?

Okay I need to prove to you I read his words. Well here are some of the most reprehensible ones. But I ask you Rujax, what brings words brought you a smile reading or hearing that spewed forth from Senator Durbin?

Didn’t Senator Durbin say these words: “If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime — Pol Pot or others — that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.”

Didn’t Senator Durbin say these words: “It took us almost 40 years for us to acknowledge that we were wrong, to admit that these people should never have been imprisoned. It was a shameful period in American history,” Mr. Durbin said. “I believe the torture techniques that have been used at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo and other places fall into that same category.”

Hmmm…? Rujax: If Senator Durbin was describing the Internment of Japanese, why didn’t he say that “you” democraps were in power when this happened during WWII? Why didn’t he say first that democrap Franlin D. Roosevelt and the democrap Congress of the United States was wrong? Because it didn’t fit his argument, like many things spewed here by HA lefty hate mongers. Still waiting on that Clarence Thomas congrat.

Without you navigating to a search engine can you answer these questions? Do you understand the Killing Fields of Cambodia? Did you see the movie based on Dith Pran? Probably not. Do you know why Dith Pran was singled out like many of his fellow countrymen? Probably not. Have you ever been to SouthEast Asia? Probably not? Have you seen the tens of thousands of skulls in picture documentaries? Probably not? Do you know how many people died there? Probably not.

Now lets go to the Russian Gulags. I have never been to Russia as the company I used to work for had a small business and my expenses could not be justifed. After a friend described the Mockba (Moscow) airport, well, I’m glad I didn’t go. Anyway, why did Stalin have the gulags? Were they for his best buds? Did the people go there visiting a nice resort, enjoying themselves, enjoying some bodily fluid transfers in the throes of orgasmic bliss. Most certainly not. Did you read Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago? Probably not. Do you know how many years he was internned at a gulag? Probably not. Do you know what the gulags were for? Probably not. Can you tell me how many people died in the gulags? probably not.

Do we need to visit the Nazis? Oh, that’s right, us wascally Republicans are Nazis per Donald Gelding and Brainless Loocy.

So in closing Rujax, how many people have died at Gitmo? Name them please!! Come on, I’m certain Senator Durbin called you and gave you the correct answer! So shut up with more lefty stoopidity!

I so rarely agree with what you say. I must however give you props for having an amazing ability to conjure up not only a few relevant facts…but a whole bunch of really irrelevant ones, too. Also you MUST be able to type really, really fast. Methinks your fingers get out ahead of your brain sometimes.

You’re right…I had to cheat. While you were doing A LOT OF REALLY PRODUCTIVE THINGS (well documented in other posts-again, mega props to you). I was entertaining the (homeside) troops in Officers Clubs and NCO Clubs up and down the west coast as a bar band musician. So I googled to jog what’s left of my formerly drug and alcohol addled…now clean and sober but still addled (shut up, CYN) memory.

2) OK, you CAN read. I’m sure we all knew that already (boy…did we), you can also parrott Cat-killer Frist’s comments. Bully. Because I’m a REAL lefty slacker…not like the smart ones here you all accuse…I’m going to STEAL a cogent comment from a smarter blogger than I:

“The Righteous Right is pounding Durbin for mentioning Gitmo in the same breath with Nazis. The Bushmen know the trump card of being disloyal to our troops plays well with the public. Between pot shots from official GWB propaganda operatives at Fox Nooz, Durbin fired back, “My statement in the Senate was critical of the policies of this Administration, which adds to the risk our soldiers face.”

GWB practices a “don’t ask don’t tell policy” toward Muslim detainees and winks in a folksy manner at the Geneva Convention. Durbin is not a bleeding heart Liberal , but an important independent voice in a democracy. He sees the damage to international support and to the principles of freedom the U.S. advocates. Are we bullies? What should that “shining city on a hill,” that President Reagan talked about represent? If we are fighting for democracy we have to represent the change we want to implement in the Middle East.

A quote by Avi Schlaim, an Israeli historian, on the issue of comparisons to Nazi Germany (in this instance referring to Israeli government and military leaders, but the parallel works here as well) says it best: “The issue isn’t whether or not we are the same as the Nazis, the issue is that we aren’t different enough”

So regarding Cambodia. In a round-about way this sort of illustrates a point I’m trying to make: the Viet Nam war was an evil, illegal and immoral undertaking. As policy, it failed whatever objective was set out. That War divided this country in a way not seen since the Civil War. We illegally bombed that country, Cambodia, destroyed its resources slaughtered hundreds of thousands of its citizens, set the stage for Pol Pot and GAVE HIM ARMS and he just did what arrogant killers have done since time immemorial. You know Reagan though it was a great idea to arm Saddam. Oh, and look what he did. And look how we resonded. Oh…we didn’t. The point is…the larger point is…bad policy, bad wars, bad actions, breed bad results. How faithful are we to be to the “American Ideal”? Is this just “Manifest Destiny” all over again. We’ll fuck you and you’ll like it because we’re the US and we do it better and you should really be grateful we chose you to fuck? Is that who we are? Is that who we want to be? We can destroy ANY COUNTRY in this world. TWICE. We’ll create weapons from space that will laser you while you walk down the street. So we’re going to be the biggest thug on the block? The next in a long line of Uber powers that ultimately fail due to their hubris. What about a Pax Americana. Trying to use our power and influence for the ever greater good of all humankind rather than the imposition of our political and military will on our percieved targets of expedience. Oh…not enough testosterone in that model…I’ll try World Domination for Trillions of Dollars, Bob.

This adventure, Iraq, is failing. It is failing because our motive is MORALLY WRONG. Whatever reasons this administration gave to invade this country and kill these people were lies. They know why they really went in…and they haven’t told us yet. But I believe the evidence is incontroverible that it WAS NOT about 9/11. You know, If they had a good reason…let’s hear it. Why was this war in that place such a great idea. AND I DON’T WANT TO HEAR IT FROM YOU GUYS! I want to hear it from THEM. I want to hear why brutalizing our those we say are our opposition (this time) is a great idea. I want to hear them explain why parents have to buy their own son’s and daughter,s body armor. I want to hear from them. NOW.

Rujax do you want to have a conversation or just accuse me of listening to Frist and others. First off Clarence Thomas. He and I agree that medical marijuana should be prescribed by a doctor and the govmint should but out of it. There are many remedies that people should choose to take like Laetril, and other compounds. If I sign away the liabilities to try a specific drug to ease my pain of improve my QOL, it’s my choice. I am still waiting for HA lefties to say “Clarence you are right! We agree with the fact you want doctors and states to decide medical marijuana”. That was the take of most HA posters here but you all ignore Clarence when he agrees with you. That my friend is the standard two-faced character of your side. I haven’t seen on HA lefty say that, because they hate Clarence Thomas. BTW why did you enter Ward Connerly into our discussion? What does he bring to the military conversation here?

Stick to the relevant facts on Durbinspeak? Maybe I heard Durbin’s comments on CNN, you know the Clinton News Network. Maybe I went to the Internet and the WA Post gave me his comments, you know the newspaper just after NY Times who played the Abu Ghraib card over and over. Not everyone on the right gets their information from Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity. Personally I like Mike Savage. Borders, Language, Culture baby!

Your friend Senator Durbin did the conjuring up through nasty comparisons. Why is it when the left wants to make their puny points they have to drag the good name of the military though it for a few bad apples. Why is it the left wants to make a point they immediately start saying the military doesn’t know what they are doing? Why is there a fixation on your side on the few negative aspects on life when there are powerful examples of the good our soldiers perform that the MSM never covers? Why doesn’t Goldy and HAs praise our military when they are trying to denigrate the administration instead of finding obsure references made by democraps that seem to tar and feather my nephews and others in the services? All administrations make mistakes, some more than others, but at least separate the good people who are doing a wonderful job from the scum that all groups have.

Rujax, I gave many references to many countries who thought Saddam had WMDs. Did you read those posts? Did you realize that France and Germany told Bush before he went into Iraq that they too thought Saddam had WMDs? Or did that escape your mind? Did you realize that Eqypt and Jordan told General Thomas Franks (read his book) that they thought Saddam had WMDs? Or did that escape your mind? Did you know that Russia and Israel thought Saddam had WMDs. Or did that escape your mind? Please clue me in on the “lie” your side likes to conjure up. Bush lied Brainless Loocy loves to say. No, he got faulty intelligence from the Europeans, his CIA and neighboring countries in the Mid-East.

Why did we arm Pol Pot and Saddam? Pol Pot was against the Communists and said he would stop them from infiltrating through Cambodia into South Vietnam. Why did we arm Saddam? Did you forget the 444 days of hostages in the Iran embassy. Remember everyday the MSM saying “Day XXX of the Iran Hostage Crisis” as it played the news, or maybe you were a young’un then. Saddam said he would help us fight the Iranians who were speading hatred all over the Middle East specifically to the Israelis. Iranians are Shiites and Iragis are Sunnis and they heated each other. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. We, the US has been performing that task since we became a nation. Why did the French join us in the Revolutionary War? Because we fought against England their enemy.

When did the democraps get so high and mighty on these issues? It seems to me only when they feel they can use it to get back into power. What did you think about when the Clinton bombed Serbia, or ignored Rwanda? Was he correct in his actions or wrong? Watch it now because if he was correct in his actions, he ignored the UN in Rwanda by not helping and ignored the UN by bombing Serbia. But because he is a democrap it’s ok to ignore the UN, right? I have to return to work!

The final dismantling of Pudster’s credibility is now complete on the Schiavo Autopsy thread 6/15/05 @ 284 if anyone cares to read it. Hopefully, he’ll stick to “cruising” with Mayor Jim West on the neocon blogs and we’ll never have to read his dribble again.

Tools, Righton, & Mr. Cynical: I’ve used your names in a little allegory I wrote to make a point. I didn’t commit defamation against your characters, I only used them as names in the story that “Wounded Pride Putty Knees” would know. Sorry for not getting your approval first. I’ve learned from conservatives that it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than it is permission.

You really seem like an OK guy. I can see where that virulent attitude comes from if you listen to Savage though.

This is pretty much an endless loop argument argument were having. I’m gonna bring something up like: why did Reagan sell arm to the Iranians, then. Remember “Arms for Hostages”, Ollie North, Iran Contra? Nice way to punish those nasty ‘ol spreaders of hate, man. Then you’re gonna find some half true thing to bring up and so on.

So here’s my core deal, OK? I didn’t trust the Bushies when they took office. I expected them to behave this way and they haven’t disappointed me. I’ve pretty much said all I want to say about this. I sure wish a guy like you saw things a little different. You’re obviously bright. You sure know your stuff, and in my view you’re dead wrong.

And why it’s such a big deal to me (I don’t speak for anyone but me) is that they always said they were better than me. They were stronger, smarter, more ethical, more patriotic, more brave. “You can’t trust a Democrat”. Tax and spend. Soft on crime. You’re not safe with a Democrat. We won’t lie to you…those nasty Dems will! Now just who, America are you gonna trust?

Well guess what…Nixon lied. Lied about Cambodia. Lied about Viet Nam. Lied about Watergate. Guess what…St. Ronnie lied. Lied about Iran-Contra. Lied about things he couldn’t even remember he lied about. Bush I lied. Lied about letting Hussein into Kuwait. Bush II about why we’re in Iraq now (and so much more). The thing is that they said they were better. They’re not. In my view they’re worse. Waywaywaywaywayway worse.

But you, old chap, you’re great fun to joust with. Find some peace for yourself on this gorgeous day. I’m sure we’ll spar s’more later! Toodles.

Oliver L. North: convicted of altering and destroying documents, accepting an illegal gratuity, and aiding and abetting in the obstruction of Congress; conviction reversed on appeal

John M. Poindexter: convicted of conspiracy, false statements, destruction and removal of records, and obstruction of Congress; conviction reversed on appeal

You are right that Reagan was trying to get Americans free from hostage situations and the administration lied about it. I have issues about why would he say stuff publicly and then posture about it behind the scenes. His reasons went to the grave with him. So I won’t quibble on this one. Someone else may but not me.

Please provide links on how Bush allowed Saddam to invade a sovereign nation. If you are talking about Nixon invading Cambodia and not speaking about it, do you give intell to the enemy during a war? Do you have links? I will concede that Bush was misled about his intell information. I will not concede that Bush lied. How many other nations thought he had WMDs? You and your HA completely ignore that. If you noticed, I never mentioned GB. I used other countries who are not part of the “great” Downing Street Memo. Why would Putin put himself in that position of supporting Bush? Catch my drift?

Regarding your phrases about not trusting Democrats: What was one of Carter’s first acts: military cuts as he campaigned on in 1976 over the SALT II Treaty. I suggest that you read: The Real Jimmy Carter: How Our Worst Ex-President Undermines American Foreign Policy, Coddles Dictators, and Created The Party of Clinton and Kerry by Steven F. Hayward. Didn’t Carter go to NK on behest of Clinton (6-15-94) to bargain over their nuke program only to be shown wrong? Then you will see where those phrases came from and how Dukakis cemented it with his answer on how he would react to his wife being raped.

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