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Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

Originally Posted by Cyclone792

The thing with my golf game is my wildness and penalty strokes just destroys my score. On a typical day, I'll shoot in the mid 90s with that score including at least a half dozen penalty strokes, sometimes more. If I could actually keep my ball in play for an entire round, I'd shoot mid to high 80s more often than not. Heck, even when I do manage to keep my ball in play, I'm still toiling around in trees, trying to punch out of the edges of a forest or attempting to get myself out of a creek. Interestingly, I do tend to avoid bunkers fairly well though.

Once you get tired of looking for your ball, you need to throttle down your swing. Accuracy is infinitely more important than distance, especially when distance puts you out of play or in the trees or rough.

Most baseball players have to go through this before they finally get it. All those years of chasing bat speed are hard to give up.

You want clubhead speed, but only controllable clubhead speed.

If I were you, I'd go to nothing but 3/4 swings until you can keep it in the fairway. You are hitting 5 irons over 210 dude. Problem is you're looking for your ball out on the highway and in people's yards. Try hitting one 185 with a 3/4 swing and see how much fun playing from the fairway can be.

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
~ Mark Twain

Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

Originally Posted by RFS62

Once you get tired of looking for your ball, you need to throttle down your swing. Accuracy is infinitely more important than distance, especially when distance puts you out of play or in the trees or rough.

Most baseball players have to go through this before they finally get it. All those years of chasing bat speed are hard to give up.

You want clubhead speed, but only controllable clubhead speed.

If I were you, I'd go to nothing but 3/4 swings until you can keep it in the fairway. You are hitting 5 irons over 210 dude. Problem is you're looking for your ball out on the highway and in people's yards. Try hitting one 185 with a 3/4 swing and see how much fun playing from the fairway can be.

Should have met you a year ago Rfs. I wouldnt have listened though. Its a hard thing for me not to try and crush the ball when I am standing at the tee. I am sure this is from my baseball years. Anyway, this is what I have been doing lately, and my scores have been getting better. There isn't that much difference between 250 and 300 yards that I can't make up on the next shot.

Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

I've been playing with very good athletes for a long time. And without question, the biggest problem with a good athlete is swinging too hard, especially if he's a baseball player.

The advantage of being strong isn't that you can hit the ball a long way. The advantage is that you don't have to swing hard to hit it a very respectable distance. You give away your advantage if you swing hard.

You need a 3/4 swing anyway if you want to play single digit handicap golf. It's like the second serve in tennis. You have to own it. You have to be able to call on it at will and know it's going in.

Perfect that swing, then stretch it out. Take a full shoulder turn, but don't reach for the sky in the last foot of your backswing. That's where most golfers lose control, that last foot of backswing. You wobble out of balance moving your arc and having to move it back. This is doomed to fail when the pressure is on.

Learn to throw darts. That's golfing IQ, golfing maturity.

Yeah, it's fun to blast it over 300 yards. Not so much if you can't find it. Hit it 250 to 275 and play from the fairway if you want a single digit handicap.

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
~ Mark Twain

Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

Good advice RFS. I recommend hitting irons in the 3rd gear out of 5. The driver you can go up to the 4th gear. The 5th gear should be used only in long drive competitions.

A couple other tips for accuracy. Hold your finish until the ball lands. This improves balance which will only help accuracy. Try turning turning through the shot with your arms and body working together, not just your arms lashing away at it. And finally, stop your backswing much short of parallel to take away the temptation to rip at it as hard as possible.

"....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

Originally Posted by RFS62

Once you get tired of looking for your ball, you need to throttle down your swing. Accuracy is infinitely more important than distance, especially when distance puts you out of play or in the trees or rough.

Most baseball players have to go through this before they finally get it. All those years of chasing bat speed are hard to give up.

You want clubhead speed, but only controllable clubhead speed.

If I were you, I'd go to nothing but 3/4 swings until you can keep it in the fairway. You are hitting 5 irons over 210 dude. Problem is you're looking for your ball out on the highway and in people's yards. Try hitting one 185 with a 3/4 swing and see how much fun playing from the fairway can be.

Thanks for the tips.

I was able to do this late last summer somewhat, though it took typically getting to the range twice a week and then also playing each weekend. I have been able to get back into that rhythm of easing up on the irons - I am hitting the 5-iron 210ish without swinging anywhere near full speed - but I just haven't been able to find that ease up swing yet with the woods. This is why at Walden Ponds I didn't even pull a wood out of the bag on the back nine and I ended up shooting something like a 42 on the back using nothing but irons off the tee. Most of the time right now with the woods I'm just opening up my wrist and the ball just sails right.

I'm going to try to get to the range on Wednesday after work. I'll give these tips a try and we'll see what happens.

Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

Originally Posted by Redhook

When you guys get a chance, go out to Stonelick Hills Golf Course in Batavia. It can be a bit pricey, up to $70 I believe, but it's the best public course in the city. It's awesome. It's as pretty as Shaker Run, but a better layout. Like Screwball mentioned about Beckett, it may be cheaper at off times.

Played it a couple years ago- my brothers and I took my dad there for his 70th birthday. Loved the layout, but if I remember correctly he ended up playing a mix of blue and white tees. Playing all the whites was too short for him, but playing all blues was too long. There was quite a difference between the total yardage.

Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

Originally Posted by RFS62

Once you get tired of looking for your ball, you need to throttle down your swing. Accuracy is infinitely more important than distance, especially when distance puts you out of play or in the trees or rough.

Most baseball players have to go through this before they finally get it. All those years of chasing bat speed are hard to give up.

You want clubhead speed, but only controllable clubhead speed.

If I were you, I'd go to nothing but 3/4 swings until you can keep it in the fairway. You are hitting 5 irons over 210 dude. Problem is you're looking for your ball out on the highway and in people's yards. Try hitting one 185 with a 3/4 swing and see how much fun playing from the fairway can be.

This is exactly what I did. And here's the funny thing- guys I play with say things like, "Dude, if you took a full swing, you'd knock it 300 yards." My reply is about the same as RFS- I like to play from the short grass. And speaking of which, I think hitting from the rough is a rite of passage that all golfers have to go through because once you learn to keep the ball under control from the tee box, you come to value it even more. About three years into playing, I began to really understand the need to pinch the ball and the control that comes with it.

Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

Here's a good analogy for you. If you've ever seen a master carpenter drive a nail, you'll notice that he doesn't take a very big swing. It's a controlled movement with rhythm at the end of the stroke. Not a wild swing. Hitting the nail with the center, or "sweet spot" of the hammer is key. It's a six inch knock out punch, not a wild haymaker swing.

There's a difference between strength and power. Power is the effective use of strength. Plenty of guys stronger than I am can't hit it as far because they are out of control and don't know how to effectively transfer the energy you store in the swing.

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
~ Mark Twain

Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

Originally Posted by Redhook

When you guys get a chance, go out to Stonelick Hills Golf Course in Batavia. It can be a bit pricey, up to $70 I believe, but it's the best public course in the city. It's awesome. It's as pretty as Shaker Run, but a better layout. Like Screwball mentioned about Beckett, it may be cheaper at off times.

+1

I played it last Labor Day weekend and was in awe of it. It's spectacular in about every way.

Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

Originally Posted by Redhook

Good advice RFS. I recommend hitting irons in the 3rd gear out of 5. The driver you can go up to the 4th gear. The 5th gear should be used only in long drive competitions.

A couple other tips for accuracy. Hold your finish until the ball lands. This improves balance which will only help accuracy. Try turning turning through the shot with your arms and body working together, not just your arms lashing away at it. And finally, stop your backswing much short of parallel to take away the temptation to rip at it as hard as possible.

I am heading to the course now and I will try that stopping backswing today. I have been "turning through the shot" lately making my arms and body work together, but have found that I do not "break my wrists" on a swing. I cannot do both for some reason. Is this incorrect or correct?

Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

The biggest improvement in my game was two years ago. I quit hitting balls at the range and went to the practice green instead. Practiced putting and chipping about an hour a week. For chipping, I practiced three lengths of shots with two clubs (8 iron and sand wedge). For putting I practiced long lags, 4 footers and downhill 6 footers.

Here's what I think is the most interesting thing about that kind of practice- it also improves the full swing game. Redhook can probably explain it better than I, but it was amazing how much all that chipping practice helped me to hit longer clubs.

Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

I'm useless under 10 yards to the green. I'm honestly better off trying to putt the ball through the rough. It's without a doubt the worst part of my game. I add, on average, about 5 strokes to my score even just playing 9 holes on duffed chips or balls that I don't get under and end up line-driving across the green to the far rough.

I've practiced, and no matter what I do I have no feel for how hard I need to swing, how to move my hands and arms, or what to do to get the ball up and down onto the green. Most times I'm happy just making it onto the green to putt.

If I could figure that aspect of my game out, I feel like I'd instantly become a passable golfer. As it is, I hit for the green and pray I get it close enough to "bump" the ball on with a low iron and run it to the hole. The minute I have to get a wedge out, I anticipate I'm 2 strokes to the green minimum -- even from short.

Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

Ten yards in is probably the most improved part of my game in the last year.
The thing that changed it for me was learning to take my wrists out of play and to turn, as with a full swing, but with the back swing only going back only to, say, 7 o'clock. Once I stopped flicking at the ball I started making solid, ball first contact. And it's amazing how the ball pops up off the club when it's struck that way.

Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

RFS, SunDeck, and others ... please, keep the tips coming.

It's interesting that CE mentioned his chipping issues, for example, because I have some similar issues, though I've improved somewhat recently. That's still a frustrating part of my game, though, because there are still times when I completely screw up a chip altogether that ends up costing me one or two strokes on a hole.

Re: Golfers of RedsZone (aka War Stories from the Rough)

The short game. By far, the most important piece of the puzzle. Until you realize that, you're just pounding balls out there. A thrower, not a pitcher, in baseball terms.

Spend no less than half your time on the short game and you'll be knocking on 80's door very soon.

But the only way to get there is to find a way to make practice fun. It has to be engaging. You have to make it interesting. If all you do is chip a few and putt a few with no purpose, no plan, you'll never keep it up. You'll be back on the range pounding drivers and three and four putting every green.

My best advice.... get yourself a putting mat and put it in a place in your home or office where you have easy access to it. And that alone won't do it. You have to have a plan.

I learned to putt on a putting mat. I was the worst putter you ever saw when I started. But I would get up from the desk many times a day and putt 5 or 6 balls at a time and go back to my work. Make it easy to do, nothing you would ever put off because it seems like a big deal. There's no way you can tell me you don't have one or two minutes every hour or two to roll a few putts. If you think you have to spend 20 minutes on it, you'll always be able to put it off and not do it. But the laziest cretin on earth can spare one or two minutes every hour or two.

Do it, and you'll have putted 20 to 50 balls a day and hardly know you did it. Putt the same speed every time for a long time until you have established a BENCHMARK stroke. It doesn't matter how far it will go on a regular green. You need to establish a BENCHMARK which you can take to the putting green of whatever course you're playing. Roll a few with that stroke you've grooved and see how far they go. Pace them off. Then you have a benchmark for the speed of the greens that day.

There are many technical points about putting, i.e. accelerating blow, pendulum, whatever style you settle on as natural to you. But groove a benchmark stroke in a way that never seems like a lot to do.

I can't overestimate the value of this approach. It seems too simplistic. It isn't.

The best lesson on any athletic endeavor I ever got was in skiing many years ago in Vail. I asked a grizzled veteran instructor "what's the secret to learning how to ski?". He smiled, and simply said "mileage".

Same thing with the short game. Mileage. Repetitions. And like music, not just practice, perfect practice.

Learn proper form, setup, stance, grip and alignment. Take a lesson from a pro or just talk golf the way we loved to talk hitting when we played baseball. Learn the fundamentals, then commit to "mileage".

Find a way to make practice fun, not tedium. Otherwise, you simply won't do it.

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
~ Mark Twain

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