samodena at csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu writes:
> In article <hines.745636749 at cgl.ucsf.edu> hines at socrates.ucsf.edu (Wade Hines) writes:
> >ogil at quads.uchicago.edu (Brian W. Ogilvie) writes:
> >
> >
> >The principal job of a principal investigator is to raise funds.
> ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^
>> The way to "fix" this situation is to have a place on the grant form
> and on the publication titled: Principle Fundraiser
>I think the above statment is a little extreme. The principle
jobs of the PI is to provide funds, concieve of the project (not
necessarily the details of experiments), and provide oversight
and review.
> >If they have lots of money, then they can do research. If they can't
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >get money, then they can try to do research but the main job is to
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Probably a correct prioritization of the pecking order that operates.
> It may very well be that there is an *excess* of scientifically brilliant
> minds and a *deficit* of successful *business/political* minds.
>>> >raise funds and if this means smoozing with congresspersons, so
> >bit[e] it.
>> >As to names on papers, it is fair for a PI to add their name if
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >they wrote the grant which funded the work because they conceived
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >of the project. Still, there are many cases where this is abused.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> >--Wade
>> CONCEPT papers should be published in *conceptual* journals and *research*
> reports be published where they traditionally are.
>The above statement seems to imply that only those people who
actually touch things in the lab deserve to be on papers.
There is more to science than being at the lab bench. Ideas
have to be generated, experiments have to be designed,
ususally, experiments have to be redesigned, data has to be
analyzed, papers have to be written, etc. All of these things
are involved in creating active fruitful research. PIs are
also going to be older with more experience than grad students
and post docs and thus will be able to provide a broader view
of things as well as conenctions to other fields of science.
PIs also spend a fair amount of time doing things that don't
contribute directly to their research, but are necessary to
keep the institution and the scientific establish functioning
(committes, teaching, reviewing paper and grants).
> You say there is no market for concept journals...well that settles that
> question. :^)
>> In private enterprise the *company* (stockholders as represented by the
> CEO) "own" the fruits of research and development. Though patents and
> copyrights can only be assigned to warmbodies, *assignment* clauses of
> personnel contracts take care of who *really* owns intellectual properties.
> But at least the *reassignment* is *clearly* seperated so that there is no
> ambiguity about inspirational contribution and financial contribution.
>
It seems that you propose having credits at the end of a paper,
similar to those at the end of movies:
Producer - the PI
Director - post doc whose project it is
Actors - grad students
Crew - technicians
For collaborations then we would have 1st, 2nd, etc. directors
and crews.
Interesting to try.
> steve nmodena at unity.ncsu.edu>> Steve nmodena at unity.ncsu.edu
Michael Kurilla
mgk2r at virginia.edu