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Topic: Donatos Pizza - anyone got a recipe? (Read 64267 times)

Thanks for your post – really, lots of good info there. I’m not sure why you wasted your time unless you just enjoy being rude. What constitutes good pizza is different for everyone. Many people – including myself – feel Columbus has some of the best pizza going.

The joints you mention aren’t bad, but aside from Rubinos they’re just other New York clone places. No originality or personality. Much like your post. “Ohio Style” pizza goes far beyond the former McPizza and all the campus dives on High Street.

I suggest you peruse the New York style boards – those will probably be closer to what you’re looking for here in this forum.

Some places I would highly recommend for, what I consider to be, good “Ohio Style” pizza are:

Tommy’s (and no, not the one on campus ) Enrico’s (in Dublin)Diarini’s (if they’re still open)Massey’s PlanksLido’s (again, not the one on Campus. The Sawmill Rd. location used to be really good).Granddad’s (the most “low-brow” of the bunch, but really tasty)Hound Dogs (the only campus join that can actually put out a good pizza, if the right cooks are in the kitchen – and you eat it there).And of course, Donatos.

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On a note more relevant to this thread: I just ordered myself an 18" Vic Firth rolling pin!

One of my biggest challenges so far is getting an even thickness for the skin without a sheeter. The smallest inconsistencies represent pretty drastic differences in the overall crust once cooked. I'll have places that get little to no rise and therefore have none of that "middle chewy" like texture, and other parts that are too thick and get too much rise.

I'm hoping that with this extra long roller I can use those rubber-band thickness guides and get a super nice and even 14" skin!!! Once it comes in I plan on making a couple of pies and posting the results!

Hi all – it’s been a while since I got to do any pizza experimentation but I finally got to do some more “work” this weekend. I got to try out a new tool and do a solid side-by-side comparison between two versions of the recipe to decide once and for all which is better.

In the end the most recent “2.0” version won out for taste and texture, so I’m happy to move forward with that one. It’s not “there” yet, but it’s close. Lost of work left to do, but of course that’s half the fun!

The basic difference between the two doughs is 2.0 has a higher percentage of egg than 1.0.

They both came together rather easily, though 1.0 was MUCH stickier than 2.0. They both got ~30 hours rest in the refrigerator.

When rolling them out I got to use my new rolling pin – an 18 pin which I fitted with those thickness-gauge rubber bands. This helped IMMENSELY in getting the dough a more even consistency. I can’t stress how awesome this was!

However, it was VERY hard to roll out all the way to a 14” size. Without that extra ability to press into the dough I just had to roll, and roll, and roll, and roll – and it was still difficult to get it all the way out to 14 inches. The good news in this was there was little over-hang crust that I had to cut away, but it took a while to get there. Also, just a funny note, it kind of has the feel and texture of sugar cookie dough once rolled out all the way. I was half tempted to press out cookie-pizzas 

I should also note that I used a hefty amount of flour in rolling them out – especially 1.0 as it was still pretty sticky. But the overall procedure works very well now – roll out to 14”, dock, oil, sprinkle on and pat-down cornmeal, and flip onto the pizza disc.

Each then got the standard 30 minute hydration period and then were set on the counter for a couple of hours to try and encourage the drier, crispier edges. The each was sauced, topped, and baked at 450 for ~7 minutes.

The results:1.0 was rather chewy – not enough “snap” to the crust. It had good flavor, but not as good as 2.0. It also browned very nicely on the bottom.2.0 Was very tasty and had the good crispness along with the slight chew I’m looking for. However, it got pretty burnt on the bottom – not so bad where it tasted bad or burnt, but it wasn’t a nice golden brown, that’s for sure.

So we did decide that 2.0 tasted the closest and that’s the one to keep and work on, but there are still some challenges:1. The crust burnt: I’m not sure if I’m getting darker results due to the longer counter-top post-hydration rest (also allowing for a longer oven pre-heat time) or what. Maybe I need to raise the rack up one, or even cut down the cooking time?2. Still not getting the dark crispy edges – more specifically from the top. The top of the pizza doesn’t get as “done” as I’d like. I can’t really have heating elements in the top and bottom of the oven like those conveyers do, but maybe there’s something I can do, like put a pizza stone on the rack above or something. 3. The thickness isn’t quite perfect – but close. The rolling pin actually made the dough a bit thicker than Pete’s formula called for (closer to 1/8 inch) though there wasn’t a noticeable difference in the final product (other than the wonderful consistency! Haha). However I think its still EVER SO SLIGHTLY too thin. I also got very little refrigerator rise out of the 2.0 version.

So those are really the only big challenges left – well, the taste isn’t quite perfect, but I don’t know how to get any better really, as far as trying to explain (or, more accurately, figure out) where it’s off a bit. Hopefully we can get some other people trying out the recipe!

I’m up for suggestions on perhaps some more things to try and correct my problems! This is of course a fun thing to work on!

A few other non dough/crust related items.

1. I did par-bake the pepperoni (if that’s the correct term) this time to try and cut down on the fat content. I gotta say it worked really well! I put them in the oven at 250 for maybe 5-10 minutes and then blotted off as much grease as possible. And again, it worked – I was able to load up the pizza with more pepperoni without it turning into a big greasy messy pool. The pepperoni is, I think, going to be the one thing I’ll never be able to get 100% down. I’ve not found any brand that tastes just like theirs.2. The sauce I put together this time was the best yet, as far as mimicking the taste. A friend who was helping me taste test said it was spot-on.

a. 1 can tomato pasteb. 1 can (same size) waterc. ¾ tbsp sugard. ½ tbsp kosher salte. 1 tbsp basilf. ½ tbsp oreganog. Mix all together (slowly) with a whisk, and let mellow in the fridge at least 3 or 4 hours. Overnight would be best.h. It’ll be very thick! Thicker than most sauces.

3. I’ve still not found a place around here that carries Aged-Smoked Provolone, which is the “right” kind of provolone to use. I can only find non-smoked sharp provolone. It’s definitely the right flavor, but it’s not quite perfect. It has too much of a “tang” that doesn’t fit the flavor profile. I’m going to breakdown here soon and find and online cheese store to get some aged-smoked stuff the next time I try making the pizzas.

EDITS:-------------------After having leftovers the day after, I have to say that there are some other noticeable differences in the final crust. The 1.0 actaully came out a bit thicker than 2.0 - I mentioned that 2.0 needs to be a tiny bit thicker. 1.0 was the perfect thickness, and again had wonderful color. But it was much softer and chewier (though not burnt!) than the 2.0 This makes sense, because the 1.0 did give some rise in the 24 hour fridge rest, while the 2.0 rose almost none at all (if any). So at this point I think I need to find some kind of middle-ground between the two. More experimentation is needed!

I am a little bit puzzled about the difference in wetness of the 1.0 and 2.0 doughs. If the 2.0 dough used more egg and if the rest of your ingredients were identical and you used the same dough preparation methods, the 2.0 dough should have been wetter than the 1.0 dough. To get the same degree of wetness in the two doughs, you would have had to adjust downwardly the hydration of the 2.0 dough to compensate for the added liquid from the increased amount of egg. I am also puzzled that you got materially different rises in the two doughs while they were in the refrigerator. I would think that you would have had to have added a lot more egg to the 2.0 dough for that to happen.

As for the darker bottom crust for 2.0, that could have been because the greater amount of fresh egg. Eggs are notorious for contributing to crust browning. The last time you posted the version of the recipe you were then using, you indicated 10% egg. Increasing the amount of egg further might have been responsible for the additional browning, or at least contributed to it. In a future test you could use the higher level of egg but reduce the amounts of one or more of the other ingredients that also contribute to crust browning—sugar, dry milk and dried dairy whey. Or possibly you can bake the pizza at a higher oven position and/or use a longer bake at a lower oven temperature. The longer bake might also contribute to increasing the crispiness of the crust. In lieu of using another stone above the pizza as it bakes, I think I would rather move the pizza off of the disk to a higher oven rack position. I do this all the time to get additional top heat to pizzas that were initially baked at lower oven rack positions. If needed, using the broiler element might also help get more heat to the top of the pizza without burning things.

I notice that Donatos has been silent about the use of milk and eggs in their doughs. Instead, the emphasis seems to be on using fresh ingredients (I assume on top of the dough skins) and a broader mission statement that emphasizes Live, Love, Laugh and Learn (see http://www.donatos.com/about_donatos/our_culture.asp). I also read a post recently at the PMQ Think Tank, at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=17666#17666, that says that Donatos is using frozen/sheeted dough. If this is true, it suggests that they are using commissaries and most likely are no longer using milk or eggs, at least in a fresh form. If I am correct on this, you might find your pizza crusts different than the ones that Donatos "used to" make.

You also mentioned using “smoked” Provolone. I did not read anything at the Donatos website that says that they are using “smoked” Provolone, only “aged Provolone”.

Hey there Pete - thanks for the feedback! I'm, too, actually kind of confused as to why one is so much stickier than the other, especially since the overall hydration should be close to each other after all the egg/water changes are made. It very well could be the overall humidity level here changes the formula quite a bit. It's of course very dry here in Denver and the humidity levels can be drastically different from this time of year to fall. We have just installed a humidifier so I'm hoping for more consistency year round from here on out as well. I'll try out your suggestions, and even maybe the broiler treatment too, my next go-around.

Also, yes it is kind of odd they're not promoting the whole milk/eggs thing anymore. I gotta believe they still use them since they were in teh official ingredient list I got perhaps a year ago (which was definitely post-McDonalds). I sent them an email to see if they are still using eggs. Hopefully they'll reply!

As for the "smoked" cheese, I honestly can't remember where I saw that. I found it online somewhere a while ago when doing searches on Donatos for ingredient information. Though I still can't find plain old Aged Provolone either . I'll have to find and try both. I did see that PennMac carries aged smoked provolone! I'll have to try that, and some of the pre-sliced Ezzo pepperoni!

----------------------------I just looked in my "Donatos Notes" and found these. I can't remember where I found them online, but I copied and pasted them from some pizza-news website I believe. I doesn't mean they still use the same cheese, of course.

Quote

For Columbus, Ohio-based Donatos Pizza, pepperoni pizza is a signature item prominently featured in the marketing and advertising materials for this 180-unit business. "Donatos originated the 'Edge to Edge' pizza, which doesn't have a rim of dough," says company spokesman Tom Santor. "As a result, we can put at least 100 pieces of pepperoni on each large 14-inch pepperoni pizza. The pepperoni goes on top of a layer of aged smoked provolone - we don't use mozzarella cheese - so it can cook properly and so the flavors blend well.

"Of all our pizzas, pepperoni is the most popular. Thanks to the proprietary formula for our pepperoni, which is about 25 percent leaner than most, the finished pizza has 'edge-to-edge' coverage without excessive oil. Based on how many pepperoni pizzas Donatos has sold since Jim Grote started the company 43 years ago, I'd say people have a love affair going with our pepperoni."

"Although all our pizzas are covered 'edge to edge'," Santor continues, "when pepperoni is part of a combo pizza, we try for a good balance of flavors. For example, we wouldn't use as much pepperoni on a large Classic Trio, with pepperoni, mushrooms and sausage. Instead, we take time and effort to get the right combination of ingredients, then apply all the toppings, which are scaled to one one-hundreth of a pound for consistent quality."

Quote

McDonald’s also freed Grote to focus on food, which he calls his strong suit. When asked whether Donatos’ pizza was changed while under McDonald’s – as many long-time Donatos customers insist it was - he chuckled.

"It’s horse hockey," he said. "That’s what I was most nervous about after the acquisition, especially with our classic thin crust. The only thing we did was developed a proofing system that proofed it longer and gave it a little more flavor. We’ve got the same dough recipe, the same sauce, the same pepperoni - those specs are tied in as tight as you can tie them."

Hello all – I just got back from Columbus where I was able to have Donatos again. It’s been longer than usual since I’ve last had it, which means I’ve had a lot more of my own pizza’s at home in between – for the first time I was more clearly able to tell where I’m off a bit AND for the first time after I had Donatos once my craving was pretty satisfied, meaning my pizzas are getting really damn close!

Pete – hopefully you’re out there and can help me with this one. The biggest deficiencies with my current pizzas are still the thickness of the final cooked crust. Mine are still just a bit too thin. Not much, maybe somewhere around 1/8th or at most 1/4th an inch, but noticeable now. But in looking at the recipe, I’m not sure what I should tweak to get a slightly thicker risen crust? Should I just increase the recipe by a small % and not roll it out as thin? Should I add a wee bit more yeast for more rise? Thanks!

The simplest way to increase the crust thickness is to use the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html and increase the thickness factor. For example, you might try a thickness factor of around 0.09 or so. You would enter the same baker’s percents as noted above, along with the other inputs required by the tool. As an alternative approach, you can increase the 13.08-ounce dough ball weight noted above to, say, 14 ounces, and use the dough weight option of the tool to calculate the ingredient quantities based on the 14-ounce dough weight. Again, you would enter the baker’s percents noted above.

Whichever of the two approaches you decide to use, I would use a bowl residue compensation factor to compensate for minor dough losses in the bowl. These are likely to occur when you use eggs and other wet ingredients. Without that compensation, you are likely to end up with less dough than the calculated amount. In your case, you might use a bowl residue compensation factor of around 2%. When you have finished making the dough, you can weigh it to see how close you have come to the total dough weight indicated by the tool. If you end up with a bit too much dough, you can simply trim it. I would roll out the dough to make a 14” pizza, just as you have been doing all along. If you’d like to increase the yeast, you can just simply enter the new percent in the expanded dough calculating tool. Remember, one of the reasons why Boy Hits Car (Mike) and I developed the expanded dough calculating tool was to help members like you easily modify complicated dough recipes such as the Donatos clone dough recipe that have a lot more ingredients than the typical dough recipe. It’s also likely that the expanded dough calculating tool will produce slightly more accurate results than the earlier methods I used to calculate ingredient quantities.

You may find that you have to tweak the thickness factor (or total dough weight) to get closer to the Donatos dough formulation. This may take a few more iterations to help you zero in on the precise crust thickness you are looking for.

BTW, did you notice any changes in the Donatos pizzas since the last time you had their pizzas? It’s unlikely that they are standing still with their recipes as they try to grow their business.

Hi Pete - I might be making an obvious error her, but I don't see it myself. I am using the dough formulation calculator for the first time and I have a question if I am using it correctly.

I entered the information (percentages) exactly as you typed them in your last reply, and the actual ammounts of ingredients are a lot different than what I've been using. The results of the calculator are:

I’m sure that part of the difference, but perhaps only a small part, is due to the fact that the conversion data used for the enhanced dough calculating tool is more accurate than what I used before the tool was created. However, part of your problem is that you did not enter the dried dairy whey and non-fat dry milk into the tool. Instead, you apparently mistakenly added malted milk powder, which is not one of the Donatos dough clone ingredients. I ran the percents for the latest iteration of the Donatos dough clone through the enhanced dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html and got the following:

Except for the flour and water quantities, the data seem to be in line with the latest iteration of the Donatos dough clone formulation. I don’t recall offhand which form of nonfat dry milk you used, but for purposes of the tool I used the baker’s grade for the nonfat dry milk, not the supermarket Carnation’s form. If I am wrong, you should run the numbers through the calculating tool again but with the Carnation’s form of nonfat dry milk.

As far as the flour and water discrepancy is concerned, if memory serves me correct, I believe somewhere along the line you modified the water content, possibly to compensate for the elevation issues you have had to contend with. Or maybe it was to compensate for the fact that fresh eggs are made up of about 76% water. Looking back at an earlier formulation, we used 54% hydration, not 46%, as noted at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2711.msg29079.html#msg29079 (Reply 59). The 54% number took into account the water in the eggs (also at 10.8%). You might want to revisit your notes to see if you noted anywhere the actual weights of flour and water you used, as well as the finished dough weight. That data would help us tighten up the numbers for the formulation. For your information, I ran the same set of numbers through the tool but using the thickness factor instead of the finished dough weight. I got the same results as noted above. I think there is a disconnect somewhere between the numbers used as percents for the flour and water and the corresponding weights for those ingredients.

If someone familiar with what the hydration and amount of flour is supposed to be is willing to revisit this topic, I would like to know if 212.34, 224.82, or 222.45 g of flour is the definitive amount, or if the 1.3/4 c + 2 t of flour is the definitive amount. Using the volume measurements and textbook weight conversion, I get 224.6507 g of flour. For the latest weight given in this thread (222.45 g), I get 1.3/4 c + 0.637 t of flour. To make things easy, 1.3/4 c of flour measured textbook style weighs 221.4211 g. Maybe that's what someone was inadvertently going for.

A while back, Wazatron started a new thread in which he posted a newer version of the Donatos dough formulation: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5977.msg51213.html#msg51213 (Reply 2). I believe that Wazatron now uses a scale for the flour and water but I can't say for sure. In an earlier version of the Donatos dough formulation, I used 212.34 g. for the flour, which I converted to volumes using what we now call the "textbook" method. That was before you became a member of the forum and told me that my volume conversions were off. I pretty much stopped doing the volume conversions from that point because I did not want to mislead anyone. Now that there is a new Donatos dough formulation, your tool should come in handy for those wanting volume conversions.

Hi all - Pete is right. Once I got to a more finalized or formal ready-to-share version of the recipe I called that the 1.0. If you'd like a more conventional approach to the names in this thread you can perhaps view these as Beta versions

If anyone is still interested in trying to figure out more about Donatos, I can provide a lot of information that probably has not been discussed yet, including information about how some procedures and ingredients have changed over the years. I worked at Donatos in 1992 and again in the early 2000s.

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

I'd be interested in hearing about the changes, as I imagine Wazatron would also since he has long been motivated to try to replicate the Donatos style of pizza. I have also read that Donatos is now shipping its pizzas to customers around the U.S.