Why Are We Here?

In this short documentary, Dawkins takes a look at the purpose of human existance and asks the earthshaking question – Why are we here?

Pointing out that religious stories of human purpose fail miserably, Dawkins indicates that science may be able to offer a better explanation for human existence. Starting out with Darwin, he claims that Darwin’s theory of evolution may offer the only explanation for humanity’s raison d’état that we are likely to ever get.

Many religious believers may claim that answers for our existence offered by evolution theory mean that humans are nothing special, that we are just another species of animal. They are, of course, correct in saying that we are just another animal species but this does not necessarily mean that are not special.

Clearly humans are different from our animal brothers in that we have the ability to ask questions like why are we here. This also means, however, that with our ’specialness’ comes extraordinary responsibilities. This brilliant documentary helps clarify some of the arguments made by evolution and is in no way just more of the same from Dawkins.

288 Comments / User Reviews

To limit creation /universe / existence to what we understand with our 5 senses is very arrogant and egocentric of humanity. To assume what we see feel etc... is what is out there is very short sighted. one can not disprove God, and to insist it does not exist is by itself a belief. I understand what is written in the holy scriptures such as the Bible, Quran and what their believers admit to be their interpretation is beyond reason and fantastic, but even then to conclude that the world and all that there is, is understandable by human mind well, is to align yourself with the same believers of Bible and Quran!

to be honest ...real adults don't believe in fairy stories (or religion as most people call it)The world is just an incredible place and it doesn't need any justification through religion for its existence . It just IS and the people that can't get their heads around that have to invent a story (religion) as they can't understand the science behind it !

Then maybe we will have more time to contemplate our navels, and why we exist. The movie "Lucy" had a nice take on the subject. To pass the things we learned on to the next generation. Unfortunately this apparently isn't the reason for our existence since they don't listen and willfully repeat the same mistakes ever since things like bad choices were invented.

Contrary to @Hardy near the top, if God or a God like creator exists s/he would want to be appreciated; just like most people do.

For instance if you took great effort and created a thing of much benefit to mankind, such as water, wouldn't you prefer to be appreciated for that rather than your name be spat on, made fun of, ridiculed, and venomous vitriol?

Suppose you created the first pair of autonomous robots that could communicate with each other and you. They could repair themselves and make others similar to themselves. Would you prefer to have them despise you for having to exist, which they didn't ask for, or be grateful and appreciative?

When Dawkins can scientifically explain what love and hate is and how evil and good are atomic science battling it out all around us much of the time, even within ourselves, to choose to do right or to do wrong, his science isn't worth cow poop; which is far more valuable as actual vegetative fertilizer than his variety.

The key word is THEORY of evolution. The theory is false. We did not evolve from primordial slime. Otherwise mules would reproduce themselves. They cannot. Science has shown that when species ADAPT too far from their original form, they either revert back or dead end. The mule is an example of a dead end.

Survival of the fittest is another situation which only stands to reason...except in humans where the worst psychopaths and evil doers are allowed to reproduce more and worse. Until banksters, lawyers, politicians, and other serious criminals are sterilized by contract to the French, using their antique innovative technique for permanently preventing criminals from repeating repeatedly, humans will continue to suffer greatly due to evil humans.

I'm reading through all the comments but there are so many I cannot read them all I just want to mention something that I've been thinking about lately thought came to my head when we are born we don't remember anything or have anything in our brain most of the time when we get older closer to death we lose our memory as well with that being said I asked myself what is our purpose here I thought about multiplying and conceiving and if we are here for 80 years our purpose was to multiply and make more of the human race why because everything around us is in huge quantities big numbers sperm count is in a huge quantity, blood cells huge quantity, stars in the galaxy huge quantity, grass on the earth huge quantity, molecules,atoms,neutrons protons all around us in huge quantity. .. I'm stuck on this thought about a huge number has something to do with why we are here I just can't figure it out.

I keep asking myself if everybody on Earth was together in one big huge group what would we be capable of? we can lift anything we can build anything we could sing together we become more powerful so is it because of power the more and numbers the more powerful? I also think why are we were born from pain and we die in pain? To survive while we live of course.. but if there was a true creator..why such a painful life for us? I think us experience pain it's part of the way are genes we'll decide what our next natural selection will be? how long will it take for us humans to start changing because our genes have decided a natural selection is needed ?against drugs and crime and fatty foods and bad things that causes humans to die?

It must take a long time for natural selection to work? One thing natural selection is doing not sure if it's caused by our genes or because of our actions as human beings but the children of this generation are smarter and exposed to more things as an adult then I was when I was their age is that natural selection or is that the cars of the human race? Is there evidence of an era where natural selection was processing and eliminating the good and the bad in humans? Or when it made us we just arrived here from apes or something.. No humans without brains or sex organs or mouths and stomachs or ears on the head or eyes on the chest instead? No humans formed wrong? Where did the genes test humans out at?

Also, CJ...dying is NOT scary. I mean, if none of the religious bull is true, then why would anyone fear laying in the dirt or burning in a fire absent from their flesh? If the HELLFIRES don't exist and we don't have to worry and fret on being accepted into that fluffy cloud in the sky, then what is there to worry about? KISSES!

Trust me...well that is probably something I should not ask, but...I used to think the complicated nature of our physiological being ensured we were more than ooze, nonetheless why do so many claim that demons and ghosts communicate with this realm? Do those on the negative side have that much more power? I would like to communicate with someone on the supposedly positive side.

Why's everyone wondering what being "dead" is like when we've all already experienced it already?

Nobody is sitting around on water vapor all day with your interest in mind. I'm aethist and religion is a crock of sh*t. I mean anyone with basic logical thinking can arrive at that conclusion who isn't emotionally weak or plain scared of the fact when your dead, your maker won't be waiting because you weren't engineered along with the plains of reality we are in.

In my opinion, Man has a need to belong and be loved because we are a social species, and the thought some really great super great guy God was a security blanket man comforted himself with through time to ease that uncertainty.

Any religious person is convinced their religion is the one and everyone else is incorrect, even me being aethist. I have no quarrel with religion, but if you want to worship a pile of rocks or a sanitized set of fairy tales then suit yourself, but don't tell me I have to or should be doing that as I don't tell you my thoughts that your wasting your time and when you die you return to nothingness so quit telling me j should share the same imaginary friend you have.

I'm not meaning to attack religion, but I do challenge people to give my opinion on death a real thought for a few minutes and see if it makes sense to them like it does me. If not then that's your entitled opinion.

Why do religious people become offended if I say God is likely not on any level of existence? I'm not offended if they say he does exist and created me.

Dying is naturally a scary thought because it's human nature to fear the unknown. We think we know the unknown by shaping theories that make sense and this is mine. If it makes sense to you let me know, if it doesn't please don't try cramming your religious or deeper understanding of the infinite complexity of the fabric of existance down my throat.

How can you answer any question like this. All we know is what we are taught, told and feel on this wonderful planet. We do not know of anything else or have the ability to know further. There can be species far advanced than us, that we cannot see, feel or hear according to our earthly senses. For all that we know, they can be co-exiisting right beside ourselves, or ourselves can be co-existing in another realm. So many planets and we are the only one, so many situations, sleep, dreams, deja vu, familiar faces or conversations.
What man knows on Earth does not translate to something that is known / unknown.

Well, there is in fact, only ONE reason we are here!
It is done, by following Mother Nature!
Pairing up, a Male with a Female, for the purpose of procreation!
That is all, nothing else matters!
Only the Natural Procreation, of the human species!
Think about it!

I am one of those God believing Christian type. One this not mentioned in the video was the soul. As a child I had an NDE (Near Death Experience) Hardly anyone knew what it was back then, I paid no attention to it until just a few years ago. I have done some research and have concluded that we do have an ever lasting soul and need to follow moral life styles. There is a tomorrow over there after our dead body is put down here.

I just started asking me that question recently and no matter what the answer is I do believe it all started with God. Maybe he just wanted a Family so He created us. We for some reason have all left home and will someday return home. Those of us who have hurt our Father too much just take a longer time to get home since we have to make up for the hurt we have caused.

I think the question, "Why are we here" is more simple than some of us make out to be. The intellectuals of our time have a tenancy to complicate things when it comes to the arguments between evolution and creation theories. The simple fact that as children, we trust the judgement of out parents to keep us safe should lend credence to the fact that our creator knows best for us. To think that everything just happened as a matter of coincidence show absolutely no evidence of our existence through any other means.

Mate if your going to make a claim that there is a creator it may pay to provide evidence to such a claim.

There is such overwhelming evidence to the contrary that you must have some knowledge that no other scientist has so please show us you evidence or crawl back into you hole that you came from.

lReprovo a
- 11/02/2014 at 11:01

How you must drown your conscience everyday Mr Dawkins and for what ?
Soon the day will come as It will for all of us where you will have to Justify your actions.
Please don't attack me atheists.I must have a genetic predisposition to believe In a deity.Sorry.
Anyway were all fading to black so who cares ?

all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, we are
all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such
thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of
ourselves

Junior Ten
- 05/29/2014 at 21:06

Science is really interesting bu the argument about the fact that we evolved from monkies needs a lot of faith....why i say this? Because you will hve to believe the studies of Charles Darwin. I bet no one has seen evolution in action, therefore how can you believe in something that you havent seen? You need faith in the argument. Im just saying!

We are all but one infinite consciousness subjectively experiencing reality in space-time geometry. The natural world in which we experience is created by consciousness.. Consciousness bridges the gap; or perhaps creates a gap between the the quantum world of super positions; information existing in waves of a holographic reality not bound in space or time .. We are the awareness. We are consciousness. god is consciousness. we wouldnt be here without it. Remain open minded..

Science is pretty good at discovering the answers to "how" things work in most cases and for phenomenon that is occurring now that we do not yet understand how it works just yet.

Steven Hawking stated at one time

“Our picture of the universe has changed a great deal in the last 40
years and I am happy to have made a small contribution. . . . The fact
that we humans who are ourselves mere collections of fundamental
particles of nature have been able to come this close to an
understanding of the laws governing us and our universe is a great
triumph.”

and also

“Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?”

and

“What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe?”

As you progress through Stevens comments, here is something that can be gleaned from them:

You have to ask yourself like Hawking where did the equations themselves and particles come from and is there a why to their existence that can be found that we as humans could understand?

Goddess Saraswati. I met her in an out of body experience. I was separated from the spirits and I bolted through the stars. I can describe the third world before I bolted through space, it's messy as hell, and there's tormented souls or spirits all stuck and merging together. I was impartial and aware, I didn't mind the tormented spirits, nothing was sad, I thought I was dead and I didn't really mind... I woke up dehydrated.

So yeah, I bolted through space. Then appeared the light, I was submerged by brightness and an arch started appearing on the horizon with flowers and vines. Music was playing on the horizon, saraswati was sitting. The light was almost like smoke... it wasn't necessarily difficult to see, but it felt as if it was, I didn't really have a body.

She held an instrument -sitar with the round bulb thing-, a book or scriptures and a necklace. She had a sweet smile and gave a clear instant message; don't worry, there,s nothing to worry about, do your thing. I later discovered her identity in Hinduism, in the vedas. I did more research and discovered many things...

avd420
- 07/10/2013 at 09:09

Thanks for the reply.

I enjoyed your story. I do have a couple of questions regarding your initial statement.

- Love, tolerance and wisdom. -

1st. Why love AND tolerance. Tolerance means to put up with that which you dislike or hate. If we need to teach that, haven't we failed in teaching love?

2nd. Wisdom: What if what one learns through wisdom leads them to believe a belief system or culture is dangerous and should not be tolerated?

Thanks

DigiWongaDude
- 07/10/2013 at 10:05

Looking forward to Phil's response, as I'm biting my tongue.

docoman
- 07/10/2013 at 13:06

G'day mate,
that's some interesting questions. I'm interested in Phil's and your thoughts too Digi, and I have one or two questions of my own. Do you know much about the vedas Dude?

DigiWongaDude
- 07/10/2013 at 15:53

I'm so hungry for this debate. I have no knowledge of the vedas,

... but I am ready to go. (that's surely gotta make ye think!)

I don't mind losing a battle if I can win a war.

docoman
- 07/10/2013 at 19:26

Learning is learning. :) I'll watch, read and try to learn.

Phil Dor
- 07/12/2013 at 13:04

Tolerance and patience are vital for the world is riddled with egotism, these virtues help us through this life in this day and age. In the advent of passed down hatred or intolerance towards foreign cultures or religions; Certain people cherish their religion to the extent that any doubt about scriptures or ancient books being tampered with by kings and emperors will strongly affect the individual, in such a way that he or she will -in many cases-, express anger and frustration. This is ego-pride disguised as wisdom.

Spirituality with an open mind can free the mind from one's dogmatic religion or belief system. Give your mind more flexibility for this world is only an illusion. It says in the bible to Assemble rather than to Gather, thus, it is inadequate to have a priest hosting the whole show. What early christians wanted were assemblies of philosophers, open minded individuals who would share ideas, hopes, visions and ideals.

Why Can't we just accept that we're here because of Love :) Despite all the fighting and killing and horrible things going on in this world, I still don't want to be a thing that was created out of nothing. I have explored many beliefs but one thing that stands out is when Jesus Said "Your Heavenly Father Created you for his pleasure, he knows every details of your being" that calmed me it fitted what I longed for Love from someone who know me more than I know my self someone who can direct me. “why did God create us?” is “for His pleasure.” Revelation 4:11 says (Being he called us) not created thing.

Because of our free will we have been given away to our own doings but if we seek God, Meaning place him first, he will give you the answers-- God has a plan and purpose for you. God is waiting to help you discover your purpose – just ask Him! ---

You might be asking why all the Honorable things -- Well read the bible-- God created us in his own image -- But we had to follow rules to protect us from harm and we didn't!!! and so we fell--- The wages of Sins is? now we have free will to choose Good or evil even though God knows our needs we now have to asked for it. Even Protection from Evil -- How selfish of us-- This world is now run by the Opposer of God A created being who wanted to be above God whom created us so he fooled us and keeps on fooling us even after God send his only Son to die for us--- People!! God is love if you read the bible you will find out that he will not love us more or less though matter what-- But he cannot tolerate sins and so it is up to us to find him because we are the one who disobeyed him and rejected his law the very law he gave us for our own protection. The Enemy is Jealous of us so much so that his plan is to destroy us completely just so he can break our Heavenly Father's heart-- Read Psalm 91 please it will show you that if you ask him he will Command his Angels to watch over you and all your loved ones... But the Key is to ask -- Jesus also said Ask...

Here we go again. I have a question, maybe it doesn't apply to you specifically but if it does please enlighten me.

I hear all this crap about atheists always attacking people, and being such fundamentalists and this and that. But I don't see atheists flooding television with their opinions or newspapers. There is a lot of atheist and antitheist stuff on the internet, but, that stuff must be voluntarily searched for and then watched.

Why would a follower of religion such as yourself, or maybe just a follower of Jesus, I don't know, search out obvious atheist material and then flood it with your personal beliefs that are at odds with the program being presented, only to later say that we are arrogant and and intolerant, etc. etc. ?

This really boggles my mind. I mean, wouldn't it be better if you just stuck with your own kind? Wouldn't that make for a more peaceful existence for yourself? I wish I could, but anytime I try, it's flooded with people like you.

Please leave us alone. No one here wants to hear it. Literally 80%+ of the human population wants to hear about what you say, but we don't. Leave us alone.

Please just leave us debate science and morals on our own. It's a lot of fun because when you take out false creators that have written rules in stone, there is actually room for the debate part.

hintofbutane
- 07/12/2013 at 10:28

If you knew something was awesome and people were bashing it, wouldn't you say something?

avd420
- 07/12/2013 at 13:39

No, I would just bask in it's awesomeness.

hintofbutane
- 07/12/2013 at 14:43

well okee doke.

Kateye70
- 07/12/2013 at 21:09

"Awesome" is a matter of perspective. Unfortunately, to some people, *their* "awesome" overrides anyone else's right to their own "awesome".

Consider the missionary position...Insisting on presenting one's "awesome" to unsuspecting strangers and then insisting that if they don't accept it, they're damned to a horrible eternity. Not sure that that particular "awesome" is so awesome, after all...

Djeloc
- 07/12/2013 at 22:10

tell me your definition of awesome.

hintofbutane
- 07/20/2013 at 14:37

ok, so I guess we can come to a consensus, I will think something is awesome and tell people of it's awesomeness. You can have your own "awesome", and deal with that awesomeness however you wish. No worries.

But if you wish to share whatever your "awesome" is with others, don't get your knickers in a bunch when I share mine as well.

If you don't believe in a horrible eternity then why the heck do you care if others think you're going there? I don't think you're going there- I don't know you, but why is it ruffling your feathers if others think it?

hintofbutane
- 07/12/2013 at 10:26

Well put.

Kateye70
- 07/12/2013 at 21:46

"I still don't want to be a thing that was created out of nothing."

Stardust isn't good enough for you?

true infidel
- 08/03/2012 at 04:48

what folks read here is is really good stuff. but the truth is that we don't know the truth. some how just saying that seems to give me hope. some how life is part of an on going thing.that is just not understood . seeing the way religions act how can you believe them. and here's science trying to show that there is a higher place. and that we do go further. trying to find a proof. the watch maker. all in good time i guess

I can understand the how we got here after the Big Bang (if it indeed happened that way). The elements that were made because of chemical reaction of heat and cooling down of to make something else. The amino acids, water and everything came together to spark LIFE. I think Humans would like to know The Why if there is a Why it ALL happened. Is there some kind of a Maker of ALL of this (a spirit, thing or whatever you wish to call IT)? Time has no meaning other then what a Being or thinking Entity gives it. So before it all Time had no meaning and did not exist. So the whatever happened 13-14 Billion of our years ago have an ending? Will it someday happen again or has it been going on what we call forever and never actually ending? The Why I can't understand but again does there need to be a why or did it just happen for no particular reason other then it did?

Perhaps the question should be "Why is Dawkins here?" He is a "born again atheist" who sets out to ridicule anyone that places faith in anything other than science. His evangelistic zeal to discredit ALL religious thought is unbounded, yet he has refused to enter face to face debate with people of faith because he refuses to acknowledge their "Academic Credulity" (how bigoted is that?).
Personally, I have no issue with science though it has NEVER created anything from nothing and merely DISCOVERS what already exists. Neither do I struggle with the concept of evolution as a natural process, instigated by an all powerful God.
Science concerns itself with the created whilst religion concerns itself with the creator.
We exist because we do and our purpose should be to make a positive difference to the world that we share with each other.

Dawkins sets out to ridicule anyone who places faith in anything. That is to say, anyone who doesn't bother to question, anyone who doesn't use their brain. If someone had faith Darwin, Dawkins would also ridicule them. The point is that people who don't use their brains might as well not have one, anyone who conciously makes that choice SHOULD be ridiculed, they are a liability to our species and are the reason why people have been able to convince other people to form armies and kill millions.

He refuses to debate idiots who are not worth debating. Frankly, his time is more valuable. Just as a professional geologist would not debate a flat earther.

Markus
- 07/28/2013 at 03:29

Faith is blind acceptance of a premise. Religious faith stems from ancient writings that have little or no scientific or archeological proof to back them up. You may as well indocrinate people into believing Grimms fairy tales are true.

Early man, as soon as he had any intellegence of communication formulated that what he cant explain was the work of gods or unseen forces. For convienience sake it got whittered down to just a few gods. Understanding of natural forces, science chips away at that idea,

However There are now things only recently created, like film, video, photograpy and sensitive instruments that are turning up real shards of evidence that it is possible that we could be inhabiting mutipule dimensions and I cannot preclude continuance after death, Not however talking about anything like religious views of this or the god thing that we are supposed to answer to.

If science ever bears out this possibility then it will become another fact about ourselves and the nature of everything. It will be 100 percent natural.

vlboogie
- 09/01/2012 at 20:41

I agree with your last sentence. But, Dawkins has gone face-to-face with people of faith and it ends up embarissing for the people he debates, for they rather pursue their faith of man-made stories than scientific facts and evidence. And, I believe scientists have created something from nothing in a lab experiment or at least they were able to observe it, where they were able to discover that a couple of atoms literally popped into existence. You'll need to research that more in depth yourself. This is why they are able to theorize that the smallest of matter pops into existence all the time whereas alot of matter (the big bang) is an extremely rare event.

Rohyp Gnosis
- 01/27/2013 at 21:57

Chances are that your life has only extended as long as it has because of the 'science' you have such a primitive, emotional, response against.

'Science' is impartial. It does not/can not concern itself with anything. It is simple using the best available analysis to consider the best available observed data and then trying to be as honest as possible and uninfluenced by the inevitable Human foibles and guile as possible in identifying causation. THEN...and this is critical... publishing one's work and inviting others to critique it with similar well thought out analysis. Sometimes theories are exposed as faulty, (& thus knowledge is at least unchanged), and sometimes they are not (& thus knowledge is improved).

I really can't see what is wrong with that approach? Surely it's far, (or would you even admit it's 'marginally'?), better than relying on myths and legends drafted when fellow Humans, such as you & I, were baffled, confused and in awe of such things as the movement of the sun, child mortality rates, genetic mutation and the banal idiosyncrasies of our fellow Humans!

DigiWongaDude
- 07/10/2013 at 10:43

Science asks 'what' and 'how', denouncing a 'why' (or at least its relevance).

Spiritually accepts the 'what' (or at least should do) and argues the 'how' where it extends in to the 'why'.

Since the asking of 'why' has led down many dangerous paths of outright lies and disinformation, its no wonder the scientific community holds it in such low regard.

But this does not make it an untouchable subject. Science, after all, owes a debt of gratitude to its success through curiosity - plenty of 'how' and plenty of 'why'.

Unfortunately, science is often blinkered by the 'what', leading to human frailties of things like knowledge filtering, while spiritualism dwells faithfully in the realm of belief, and the potential conflict between convictions over fact.

An open mind of 'what' 'how' and 'why' should equip you better than all those at either end of the spectrum.

jackmax
- 07/10/2013 at 12:28

Science does not concern its self with why, only with anything to do with what and how. How is it relevant in when we start comparing the facts we can prove about evolution and how the creationist expect us to believe without evidence?

Why is for the philosophers and to a degree historians to ponder as a justification of there profession in my opinion.

DigiWongaDude
- 07/10/2013 at 15:32

Forget philosophy. Forget historians. Could it be there is such a thing as alternate realities?

There could well be alternate realities, yet by you conversing with me via the internet brings me into your thoughts and that being a part of your realities if I understand your questions?

hintofbutane
- 07/20/2013 at 05:36

Your reality is your perception. My reality is my perception. I would enjoy it very much if we could talk about and debate our "realities" without malice. The internet and websites such as this are a sounding board for opinions AND what we believe as truth.

jackmax
- 07/20/2013 at 13:44

That is valid point about the perception. I would like to hear your thoughts on the factors that make up reality.

I don't think we are in control of our reality as much we would like to think.

hintofbutane
- 07/20/2013 at 14:18

OK- humor me for a moment... take a schizophrenic, and lets say that he believes that cats rule the world. He thinks about it all day, he "studies" it, he genuinely believes with all his heart and soul that cats rule the world. THAT is his reality. That is truth to him. He will debate it until his mouth runs dry. It doesn't make sense to others and it will most likely put him into an institution of some sort, but that is HIS reality. What makes perfect sense to some can seem ludicrous or outrageous to others.

What are my thoughts on the factors that make up reality? I can't answer that for anyone but myself. I know that there are constants in my life, such as God, the love of my son and my husband, that is reality to me.

I am struggling to process and answer your last statement, "I don't think we are in control of our reality as much we would like to think."- I don't know how one can "control" reality. You can experience reality, you can try and be as genuine as you can with yourself and others, but I do not think you can "control" reality. Explain.

hintofbutane
- 07/12/2013 at 10:32

reality is perception.

DigiWongaDude
- 07/10/2013 at 15:32

Red is red?

DigiWongaDude
- 07/10/2013 at 15:58

I'll take it one step further - why are you conscious, why are you capable of questioning? You have a power that goes against evolution...yet here you are. Not wiped out. Explain?

jackmax
- 07/10/2013 at 17:05

I can't tell you why but how I can tell you with evidence to confirm my thoughts on how we have consciousness. But if I try to answer a un answerable question due to relevance of what one can prove, is in "why" as there is no proof.

If I was to look at "why' I'd have to look at the bigger evolution question as in "why" have we evolved the way we have compared to any other species living today.

The reason I'm capable of thinking is like every other living creature, Our brain may give us the capability to retain more information apparently, than other living creatures, "why' can be referred to the above answer.

What power have I or the "layman" got that can go against evolution? If your speaking political only world police have that with a few communist countries have those type of weapons.

hintofbutane
- 07/12/2013 at 10:31

and yet we have yet to completely map out the human brain... you wanna place stock in your brain when it hasn't even been figured out all the way, even after all these years.

jackmax
- 07/12/2013 at 14:22

Are you saying that "we " should not continue our research in anything we are still in the discovering stage. As the advancements will only dis-prove the creationist/believers beliefs.
We all have beliefs the difference is my beliefs are based on evidence that can be proven, ie evolution compared to the creationist versions.
As with in all medical professional they never stop practicing. There are so many health problems for the medical profession from the common cold (flu) to the over two hundred cancers and every other medical conditions in between to research, so to have the knowledge about the brain that we have may only be a small percentage of it's full capabilities is not unexpected.

hintofbutane
- 07/12/2013 at 14:40

no. I think we should always be educating ourselves... I was merely stating that the intellect and intelligence you and so many others rely on so heavily hasn't been completely understood, despite extensive research.

So when you speak of science and absolutes, you are relying on a brain that is not absolute and cannot be explained fully.

jackmax
- 07/13/2013 at 00:44

Despite extensive research we are still along way from answering many scientific and medical questions.

To say the brain is not absolute is total BS. We may have a long way from completely understanding the capabilities of the brain if we ever do. However when referring to absolutes in science, peer reviews are done and only then would a scientist agree on the original finding if his peers could replicate with the same findings.
It's only through our own intellect and intelligence we can recall things we have learned

christine
- 08/08/2013 at 07:43

Yes we have mapped out the human brain. We haven't figured it out completely but we have mapped it out.

hintofbutane
- 07/20/2013 at 14:52

I have a question for you, jack- what would it take for you to believe that God exists? I'm not being caddy or contrite, I genuinely want to know what it would take for you to believe in God.

hintofbutane
- 07/20/2013 at 14:59

I think that this a fair question. You spend a lot of time going through the back and forth, which I have no problem with... more people should investigate such things. But have you ever thought of flipping it around and instead of constantly trying to prove that God doesn't exist, research how He does exist?

jackmax
- 07/21/2013 at 14:31

I have looked at this subject as I do with all subjects that interest/intrigues me. Researching both sides of the debate is a must and as a skeptic on most if not all subjects. It is my responsibility to ensure only verifiable evidence and facts are the only thing I take on board when evaluating where I stand on the subject I have interest/knowledge about. Emotions and beliefs are not useful tools when looking for answers to the questions I ask of myself and others in my opinion.

jackmax
- 07/21/2013 at 13:38

G'day mate,

For me to accept god to be real, firstly all you religious people would have to all agree in the same one god. Secondly he/she/it would have to present oneself for the world to see may be like a 100x100 metre Being, in the sky. Thirdly, verifying evidence, may go along way to convincing me.

Question to you hint-, how do you know the god you believe in is the right god, and can you be sure that others eg; muslims or even the scientologist are not right with their beliefs and different gods?

oQ
- 07/10/2013 at 15:10

I think all humans concern themself with the "why of things", it's one of the first word we use ad nauseum as a child and continue for the rest of our life.

A scientist is "expected" to find his answer in the natural world, that's why every Why has to be answered with How and What or Probably.

If math supports an abstract ideas then that idea is admissible even though impossible to prove in natural form.

But since the world is populated by zillions of different minds who may wonder Why, then why has entered science, they may call it pseudoscience but it doesn't and won't stop the research.

Thanks to people like Dean Radin, in fact i need to buy his new book and see what it's about: Supernormal: Science, Yoga, and the Evidence for
Extraordinary Psychic Abilities.
1i

Pysmythe
- 07/11/2013 at 00:25

I was thinking of you the other day when I was researching an obscure book by, of all writers, Edgar Allan Poe. The book is the last major work he wrote, entitled Eureka: A Prose Poem. Poe considered it the most important work of his life, though there are some who still believe the entire thing was actually intended as a hoax. At the time, Poe was basically considered off his rocker for the ideas it contains. And I thought of you because you've always laid a lot of emphasis on "the imaginative approach" perhaps eventually leading to sound science. In this book, published in 1847, here are a few of the things Poe extracts out of his imagination, a few of the predictions that he makes, decades in advance of any science to support them: That the universe began as a primordial point which exploded and expanded, and will eventually collapse back in on itself, that space and duration are the same thing, which anticipates Einstein, and that matter is, in fact, comprised of atoms, though there is some doubt whether he really took this last notion seriously. When you get some time, you should look into this work a little bit. I'm sure you'd get a huge, satisfied laugh out of seeing just how accurate a non-scientist can sometimes be, if he's only brave enough to let his intuition take him wherever it will.

additional info- I also meant to add that in it, Poe gives "the first plausible solution to 'Olbers' paradox' (or why the night sky is dark despite the vast number of stars in the universe)." The astronomer who eventually solved the problem (in 1964!) credits Poe with anticipating the solution.

oQ
- 07/12/2013 at 07:10

This reminds me i need to get a new library card.

Just a few days ago i talked about wanting to read Radin's new book but it would be nice to start with your suggestion first.
"how accurate a non-scientist can sometimes be, if he's only brave enough to let his intuition take him wherever it will" you already made me smile!
1i

Pysmythe
- 07/12/2013 at 08:12

About making you smile, I'm glad for that. :)

But about the library, I seriously doubt you could find a copy of Eureka, but the wikipedia article has a link to the full text down at the bottom. What's even better, though, at least to begin with, is reading a little extra info about the work (outside of what's in the wiki article, which isn't nearly enough), without trying to tackle the book itself straight off. I don't know if you've ever read a lot of Poe, but his style is pretty complicated, even for his time. It's downright baroque, really, and a little off-putting, sometimes, making it difficult to see what he's getting at all that quickly. The very last link on the wikipedia page (poe eureka dot com) is a pretty good one, if you just want to browse about it a little bit without having to commit to it. It's got some interesting reviews and insights from scientists, links to articles, etc. And, certainly not least of all, some of the notions Poe developed about what I will call "the future of God" especially made me think of you. I think you may find those particularly interesting.

CHRISTINE
- 11/11/2013 at 22:30

Indeed that term "Off his rocker," has I'm sure been applied to many, who as you described were brave enough to let their intuition take them wherever it will. If your studies, inspirations & conclusions didn't support the popular opinions of the time then you would be looked down on an by the celebrated intellectuals & perhaps religious bigots of the day. Still happens unfortunately. It is about ego & power instead of open minded exploration of what appears before us as truth. We do live in a beautiful, interesting, omniverse.

christine
- 08/08/2013 at 07:39

First, you don't know that's true and is not proven. Second. Dawkins debates many many many faith based intellects and you can find them on the internet. Third there is no such thing as nothing like your using the word nothing to mean. There is always particles in nothing that come in an and out of existence. And that nothing is actually something made something more. Never has there ever been just nothing.

UncleJoe223
- 03/15/2012 at 16:25

Thomas:

I don't see your comment here for some reason. Nevertheless I respond:

Best not to advise other how to use their minds lest you invite same in return. Better YOU should pick and practice a form of spirituality that you may have an experience beyond the five senses, beyond science, as it were.

Further, your response is typical of those often engaged in these discussions--you attack religion because it does not give you what science does. Shocking! Of course not. The great value of "science" is that it is based on reason, experiment, observation, etc. etc. . . Religion, or any true practice of spiritual beliefs, cannot employ those methods. The results of the proper practice of spirituality is beyond "reason," and, "knowing."

Errrmmm... Could you clarify what you mean by 'five senses'? There are rather more than five as most people know, (though I vaguely recall my VERY ill-educated Nan, a fervent 'believer', mentioning the 'five senses' from time to time!...Did you know her by any chance?)

:D

UncleJoe223
- 01/28/2013 at 04:21

Hi Rohyp,

No, I will not clarify what I mean by the "five senses." I think the "five senses" are generally well known attributes of human beings. More than five senses you say? Well, I had an uncle who always could tell when the check was coming and would go to the men's room, I guess that's a kind of sixth sense.

Beyond that, I haven't a clue as to what you are trying to say, although I'm sure it's something. Or not, who knows?

UncleJoe223
- 03/08/2012 at 18:02

Sorry I was so unclear.

I'm not implying anything one way or the other about existence or God or Darwin or evolution. I'm simply trying (in a convoluted way, perhaps) that Dawkins does not deliver what he promises. He states that religion fails but that Darwin does not. But what he (Dawkins) claims Darwin has shown us is that we (humans) can ask questions about our existence -- that "explains" our existence.

To which I say, "Huh?"

He has elevated our own minds (his own ego, I say) to something worthy of woshipping. Again, Dawkins seems to be celebrating his own ability to use his brain. That's how I see this.

Okay, I've watched the doc and yes, Darwin/Dawkins gives no "purpose," other that "it resides in us." That we have brains, and seek to understand the universe. Uh, that sounds like religion to me.

So, Dawkins, essentially is attempting to create a new "religion," the religion of the human brain. How ridiculous.

The scienitific validity of Darwin's theories have been rendered irrelevant here. What is important seems to be that the great DAWKINS (ALL KNEEL) has figured it out. His ego is unfathomable. His lack of creative and intuitive thinking is inversely proportionate. Conclusion: he's a twit.

So here's an appropriate prayer in Dawkin's new religion:

"Oh, great human mind (Dawkin's ego)" "You (I, Dawkins) are truly the greatest thing to ever exist. You (I) seek out the answer to everthing! You forward-plan. You know the purpose of the Universe (Me). Oh, how great are you! (am I, Dawkins)."

and what did you mean by: "The scienitific validity of Darwin's theories have been rendered irrelevant here."

are you implying that there MUST BE A PURPOSE for our existence?

im very confused by your point.

UncleJoe223
- 03/08/2012 at 18:20

Further to the above:

I think I understood the doc very well. The concepts here are not very complex and are presented clearly by Dawkins. So, what I meant about Darwin, is that the documentary is not a defense or explanation of Darwin, that has to be accepted as FACT in order to grasp the full meaning of Dawkin's position and Darwin's explanation of the "purpose" of human existence.

Wish I could write clearer on this. Sorry.

Epicurus
- 03/08/2012 at 18:54

i take it you think that Dawkins is trying to hold the brain as something worth worship ipso facto, and you dont see how the connection is made.

okay i agree.

UncleJoe223
- 03/08/2012 at 19:13

Sorry, I don't know what you mean, by, "how the connection is made." The connection bewteen what and what?

I think Dawkins is in love with his own brain, his ego is colossal, and in love with the concept of 'REASON" as the answer to all of life's mysteries, like the "philosophes," of the Enlightenment. He has simply substituted a religion centered on a Supreme Being with a religion centered around his own intellect, in a sense, himself.

Nevertheless and notwithstanding, I was hoping that Dawkins would indeed provide a scientific explanation for existence. He did not.

As they say, "Epic FAIL."

Epicurus
- 03/08/2012 at 22:07

i think im going to have to give this doc another watch. i havent seen it for a few years. i will try to get back to you about this.

i think when we ask "why are we here?" or "what is our purpose?" is like asking "what is north of the North Pole?" i dont think it makes sense.

UncleJoe223
- 03/15/2012 at 12:30

To some, the question makes no sense, this is true. But to me, that he asks it only to provide the answer himself, is more evidence of Dawkin's massive ego. The Great Dawkins will explain the purpose of man's existence, a question that has puzzled thinkers, philosophers, spiritual men, in all cultures throughout time -- no! He alone has discovered it.

Embarrassing, really.

Rohyp Gnosis
- 06/06/2012 at 16:46

I'm sure most, if not all, people that are very well known are likely to have 'massive egos', (I'm sure TV Evangelists and the Pope's egos top the scale!).

With regard to Dawkins:...if you were familiar with any of his works he'd be the first to accept an alternative hypothesis if one were presented that fitted the observed facts any better.

What's your alternative? 'Answers' associated with blind belief in any one of the 3000 or so 'gods' worshipped around the Earth today? Or perhaps in one of the countless gods no longer in favour/believed in?Since these 'gods were invented by men, (it's almost always the 'men'!), during times of great ignorance, when people were puzzled by illness, the weather, and 'nature' itself...and breeding social hatred and xenophobic bigotry were necessary traits for societies to survive I know which 'answer' I'd side with!

Hmmh.... Simply belittling someone for voicing an outcome of reasoned thought instead rather than adding to the debate appears from where I am sitting to be doubly embarrassing. Shameful!

Let me see if I got this right: Dawkins claims that religion fails to explain the true nature of existence, ("purpose") and posits that science may offer a better explanation and that explanation says that there IS no explanation, only Darwin? Darwin, does not provide a REASON for our existence. He provides, at best, a mechanism. Come on.

My question still stands re: Why is there anything, universe, people, animals,
planets, etc? Why is there anything instead of nothing? My thoughts on this question spring not from regligion or secularism or any other "isms."

In answer to your question...Try to imagine a state where nothing exists. Such a state is impossible even contradictory, since the concept existence is necessary to apprehend it therefore existence exists necessarily, even if nothing else exists.

When Stephen Hawking said the universe came from nothing, it brings to mind..."Null physics" that states the universe began from the number zero. Physicists hypothesize that the state of "nothing" is actually "something" because if there is nothing, there would have to be something that has become nothing. Nothing is filling something.

This goes as far as to say that the universe really is nothing, and does not exist. The reason for this is, if everything is to the value of zero, which is the "something" of "nothing" then you would have nothing. Almost like multiplying a negative times a positive. Physicists call the the zeros that make up the universe geometric points, which are similar to singularities, but do not condense matter.
Geometric points only represent what is not there, but by doing this, they represent something that is there. And this if how the universe "exists"

Another theory which states..."If ever anybody discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory this has already happened."

dewflirt
- 02/26/2012 at 10:00

That sounds like the sort of thing that kept me from sleeping as a child, 'where is the end of the universe and what comes next, even infinity has to have a place to be so the nowhere/nothing must be something. Of all the lovely, twisty science you write that I don't have time to understand, this is my favourite. My inner child is still fighting back tears of frustration though :)

I think the answer will be in observing the universe through relative thinking, not linear thinking. Once we understand the mystery of quantum mechanics perhaps we'll start to develop the perspective to answer this question. At our current level of thought I think even if we had the answer today, it would sound ridiculous and be disregarded by most. Just a thought :)

Rough McHewn
- 02/26/2014 at 01:14

You can only have that question because you are here, but you must realise that after you are gone, "here" will still be here, and you will still be here - though without consciousness.
"Here" may change form from time to time as well over the eons, coming together, possibly in parts as opposed to the whole, and be blown apart within the laws of physics, but retain its atoms forming the "New Here".
In that sense, there need not be a beginning nor an end, and that explanation is every bit as satisfying to me as some imaginary god that no one has yet shown any proof of.
That said, it is possible that I have misinterpreted your question.

Gary Mckee
- 02/12/2012 at 02:09

I haven't watched it but i know his view point is always from a scientific stance, he should get into Esoteric and Occult understanding of the nature of the universe..which is incredibly intellectual with a spiritual and scientific explanation ...he never delves any deeper than the conventional understanding.

following up on what some posts say about religion, why are you looking at it in it's corporate form? What is at every religion's core is faith is it not? Imagine if you hadn't a drop of faith? As the undeterministic being you are you wouldn't/couldn't assume anything about even the immediate future so you would be completely erratic in what is currently deemed as normal. Whats most ironic is that if scientists wouldn't have faith or they wouldn't have creativity(which can be deemed under darwin's theory as a random attempt to thrive under the given natural conditions) and wouldn't be scientists at all. It doesn't have anything to do with being a scientist or a priest or anything else.. it has everything to do as being human, or just being. We all are, unfortunately everyone(including me) feel the need to shout and poke sticks at each other, which once again is part of being dynamic. So what is in discussion and the source of so much confusion is discussing static scenarios in dynamic terms without realizing it, or is it the other way around? We need to articulate and fight for comprehension, that is our goal. When we reach it then we will be something else entirely. As for people saying that they don't wast their time thinking about this.. there are either lying or very shallow in my opinion.

faith and faith are two different things, and if you dont understand the difference, we can't discuss it much further. Please note that I am not trying to be an smartass.

Serj TorresSoldado
- 02/12/2012 at 01:14

Why are we here: to propagate our genes? That isn't the answer, it's dodging the answer. This man is an ***** and this documentary is just another regurgitation of darwin's theory. Ok and why propagate our genes? To make the species stronger? Why make the species stronger? It's running in circles period. And Darwin's theory doesn't refute the existence of a designer, thats what the comentator assumes by his own. Evolution is tightly related to time, since we really can't explain what time is we can't really assume it's sequential and therefore it doesn't exclude god at all. I think people like this know that are cutting it short but because they are lazy and try to win there way bullying there way past people which are more modest and who actually do the real work and make the real questions. This and so many others are just TV presenters and just want audiences so they format the tv show so we feel satisfied and say we like it, they don't want to say "We really don't know WTF we are doing or what we are", which I believe is the current global truth.

"There are whole systems of life that don't require oxygen." Someone who doesn't understand how oxygen is used in metabolism, and doesn't understand how it is extracted by being from water, and how water is actually made out of oxygen, and that there actually ISN'T life on earth that doesn't require oxygen... loses ALL other credibility. Telling others about sticking to facts/evidence/science... LOL You ought to be utterly ashamed of yourself,

maybe the universe is just the brain of a greater being, and it expand because it is still a child and growing. and maybe each our our brains is its own personal universe. also have you ever noticed has mankind is on this natural progression towards unity, when you look at the phone, the radio, tv, now the internet. maybe the greater being isnt a child, maybe its a fetus and this is it's brain being formed. as things keep changing more exponentially faster maybe the fetus is rushing towards the moment of it's birth, at the exact moment our technology is changing and we are connecting so fast that we reach a singularity and are thrust as one being into a greater and more complex universe. It would explain why 'we are all one consciousness'
p.s. i am really stoned right now :)

Thats a cool theory, i like that one. Only a stoned person can think of that.

Joe Blackhole
- 12/28/2011 at 22:54

Why is a snowflake shaped as it is ? ,it was'nt created to look that way (by some great engineer)on its way down from the cloud was it !
No and the same goes for every thing on this planet,including us,we are the bacteria of space and will evolve to survive and spread.
"Now let me get back to watching yogi bear ! ;-)"

I've always believed that: We are here, because we are here, because we are here...Ad infinitum. Does there really need to be a reason? I don't waste time wondering why i live...I'd rather just live life!

...as someone who has watched and read quite a bit of Richard Dawkins this was the comment I was looking for. Thanks for saving me some time, WG...onto the NEXT documentary. lol

OneTaste
- 11/02/2011 at 08:46

I love how a teacher once described consciousness: "this which is not perceivable or conceivable." I also love the story about the man who lost his car keys inside his house, but since it was dark inside the house he went outside to look for them under a street "light" post because there was more light there. This analogy "perfectly" illustrates why science, in its current fundamental framework, as Dawkin is a staunch proponent, will never answer the riddle. Like the man looking for the key outside, fundamentalist scientists like Dawkin are looking for consciousness and creation where it isn't.

In this video all he proves all he "can" prove and focus on are processes, proves that there is a linear process to development (evolution) where the species adapts to its invironment, but that is all science an do! Show what is, the patterns, not their source of origin, their begining point! In other words, he is showing how the design adapts itself to its environment, becomes upgraded, refined--the pattern adaptation "expression," when it is "expressed," but how does it achieve its coherency to "begin" with? How does the game "begin"? Simple observation can tell us what Dawkin has told us here, that is a no-brainer, a simple show and tell, but how is it that the cell came to being? what is the originating factor? That is what he miserably fails to point to, to prove, to support!

I close by something that Alan Watts once said, as it again, analogyzes Dawkins position. "A man who believes that he can capture 'running' water in a bucket does not understand they dynamics of 'running' water, for in a bucket water cannot run."

Dawkins does not understand what what 'creation' is, for he thinks he can explain it by focusing on "adaptation."

Sure religion can make you feel good, fill a void, provide a purpose, but the unfortunate thing about fundamental religious view is there is nothing new to learn or discover after the acceptance of a particular faith. The only intellectual advancements religious people make is attempt to come up with new ways to defend their belief as more evidence is discovered that disproves religion.

Creationism is a primitive way of thought as accepted by the majority of the scientific community (people who believe evidence not hearsay). If you were given the opportunity to be around an evidential scientific community, as Dawkins has, then you surely would have a different opinion. But, I would presume that if Dawkins grew up in a environment that created a habit out of negating evidence (as you do), than perhaps he would be just like you.

That being said, your rationalism and quotes that attempt to defend Christianity or any other religion for that matter, has been done more fully and valiantly by known philosophers, such as Thomas Aquinas, Descartes, John Locke, etc.

The sad thing is that those intelligent philosophers did not have the opportunity to see the scientific facts/evidence as you do today. Yet you choose to believe primitive myth over cutting edge evidence and fact.

I got a question for you ...Why would you watch a film about evidence/facts that you would dismiss anyway? Your current beliefs/superstitions render any opportunity useless in allowing you to understand that there are alternative possibilities of how the world came to be.

My recommendation is join atheists, because we'll love you regardless of whether God commanded it or not. And if God exists and decides to appear from the sky, then I will happily change my position to align myself with the "new" evidence.

abba1970cadabra
- 12/14/2011 at 04:00

well well jorgy porgy, the last part of your sarcastic putdown sounded very much like a pascal's wager as opposed to having the courage of your conviction and being resolute to the end. you come across as bright and challenging[all good!] however there appears to be self perpetuating constructs limits with atheists, an inability to think diverse and ""out of the box". it is a trait also found in religious fundamentalists too, so there is a commonality between you and those you laugh at. i used to be agnostic but now subscribe to the belief in an omnipotent force[not armed with commands and vengeful like the man-doctored bible] , however i don't attend church. As CS Lewis said "religion is what you have when god leaves the building".

Ridicilous theory i want to ask that why appes and monkeys did not invent any machines and tools for their survivel,and why all the animals of the world are not evolved yet that they can even boil an eag . Why they are still on the mercy of humans and if humans want they can kill every single animal , bird and insect of the world. Why Darwin and Dawkins did not evolved from humans to any thing special like superman why Dawkins is still same after thousand of years.Why this universe is so correct and there is not a single mistake in it.Why we humans did not evolved after that long uncountable time and still unable to save or self from death.Why a fish did not evolved that he can live out of water and why humans did not evolved that they can live under water.why we are still on the mercy of oxygen to stay alive.This theory have no base why these people support and pormote this theory.I think they do that for making money.

I don't know Yasar, but I've read his comment and I offer you this -- The strength of your reply is in its brevity. The weakness of it is that the disrespect it carries undermines everything that matters.

Mantid
- 10/01/2011 at 07:13

I am guessing while this documentary was playing you didn't watch it.

iesika
- 10/06/2011 at 07:01

Makes a lot more sense than "God did it."

Apes have invented tools, as have several birds. There are mollusks that will occasionally use tools to reach a goal. Culture and use of tools elsewhere in the animal kingdom has not progressed to our level because we are the first species on this planet to make the evolutionary jump to true collective learning - we are able to share our experiences and ideas with others.

There are plenty of mistakes. Your retina is in backwards, with a bundle of nerves blocking part of the light that would, in a perfectly designed visual system, reach your eye. The brain has evolved to cope with that defect - we call it the blind spot. Our backs, necks and feet hurt because we haven't been walking upright long enough to evolve the kinks out of a quadrupedal skeletomuscular system.

There is life on this planet that has done all the things you ask about. There are whole systems of life that don't require oxygen. Hoofed mammals (re)took to the sea, and over time evolved into whales and dolphins. And some fish did evolve to leave the water. They're called tetrapods - all land vertebrates are descended from them.

Death can't be conquered because natural selection works by selective gene replication. It doesn't have anything to do with life after reproduction. That is why we start accumulating biological errors at the end of our reproductive years.

Have I answered everything?

Achems_Razor
- 10/06/2011 at 16:02

@iesika:

Very good comment, enjoyed reading it.

TJ
- 10/09/2011 at 16:55

very good answers :)
what are your thoughts on consciousness?

jorgy porgy
- 11/29/2011 at 12:21

By your sentence structure, grammar/spelling errors, and complete lack of respect for the evolution theory, I presume you did not finish schooling at a credible college. I would suggest doing precisely that in order to attain the answers to the question you pose.
Cheers mate :)

Jacek Walker
- 08/14/2013 at 19:54

" respect for the evolution theory "
What nonsene is that? Is the ego The Evolutionary Theory hurt by not being respected?

Vic Seay
- 08/20/2011 at 22:20

As usual....Dr. Dawkin's views are very interesting. Well made little documentary. This one did not really tell us the "why" though. get the feeling with Natural selection that there really is no "why">

I find it puzzling and disturbing that many masses of people actually theorize that there are only 2 choices , religious gods or accidental creation for the nature of our reality. you see neither account for the unification of all we now know and grossly oversimplify and even omit the inner workings of each system that add up to be the complete picture . reality works the way it really does , not the way i or you would like it too. and it takes an open mind to see the truth. how arrogant does one have to be to even suggest something as ignorant as a man in the clouds, or that there is no creator? how about this thought, there is a creator .......consciousness . the proof is in the inner workings of quantum mechanics and below at the unified field, because whether we like it or not that it the level in which everything originates and we have uncovered a lot in even the past 6 months. enough to make the assumptions of darwin , dawkins, and the pope obsolete. yet their ideas seem to exist within a closed system. unable to advance and adapt, a prisoner of assumption.

how does quantum mechanics make Darwin's theory obsolete?
it would be great if you could explain it, because your whole comment is based on that assumption...

Guy Weston
- 02/12/2012 at 02:45

and you've developed this theory further than a few lines on a website? I googled your name but found no weighty tomes that cut through everyone else's arrogance.

Hermes Bolide 37
- 08/09/2011 at 05:22

Twitter is buzzing about the Pakistan Foreign Minister Hina Rabbain Khar's first visit to India this week. But it's not the India-Pakistan peace talks which have hogged their attention: It's her black Herms Birkin bag.

Reply to K.G.M (10 months ago)
I found your comments on Dawkins' documentary refreshing to read and in close agreement with my own impressions just after watching it today.
While watching the video I found myself curiously awaiting Mr. Dawkins' final inspirational answer to the question 'Why are we here ?' - only to be told that the consolation to our 'accidental' existence is that we are able to observe, reflect and re-order the world in which we live. While his documentary is a nice elementary introduction to some of the superficial aspects of the mechanisms of evolution I found the final conclusions were a bit of an anticlimax.
As a scientist myself I find it a bit disappointing that someone with such widespread recognition can presume to be an expert on such great philosophical questions and present them with such supposed authority that many people will be tempted to succumb to his arguments against religious faith , God and creation.
It should be pointed out to many of the people who might be seduced by some of the superficial arguments presented by Dr. Dawkins , that the arguments presented in the theory of evolution cannot even minutely be cited as evidence against a God-centred view of the universe. What do I mean by this ? Well as a scientist and physicist I would suggest that before you can even begin to make claims for evolution you need to go back to a consideration of the wonders of physical science - the atom, the molecule and the utter 'unlikliehood' of the laws of chemistry without which biology wouldn't exist ,let alone evolution. Time prevents me from surveying some of the breathtaking facts which have been discovered and still are being discovered as we speak. I recommend Martin Rees' masterpiece , 'Just Six Numbers', which gives a beautiful insight into the fundamental nature of reality. In this book Rees discusses the importance of some of the most important constants which govern the nature and behaviour of the universe, such as the forces of gravity and electricity . The precision required for some of these constants is quite astounding (in one case its 1 part in about 10 to the power 43 !) The tantalizing thought is that if you were to modify any one of these constants by even the minutest amount, you wouldn't end up with a 'modified' universe, but rather you would end up with nothing ! If you add up some of the numbers and work out the probabilities , I use the argument that you have trillions of times more likeliehood of winning a national lottery than betting that one of these constants is just right by chance .How many of those who bet the lottery go to bed every night believing that they are likely to be the one to win ? Don't they rather hope against hope ?
Yes , Dr. Dawkins how about you start grappling with some of these cosmological ideas and then try to flippantly convince 'unenlightened' people that the world and all of us got here by chance .

I couldn't agree more. Why isn't the 'Blind Watchmaker' read to middle school children, or 'The Ancestor's Tale' required high school biology reading?

wiseprotector
- 06/14/2011 at 04:35

A scientific materialist like Dawkins couldn't possibly tell us why we are here but only how we are here. If only materialism holds true, all philosophy and metaphysics are a delusion. For Dawkins, there is no why? According to Dawkins et al, the Big Bang and Evolution are how we are here and we are here for no ultimate purpose since death is the ultimate end phenomenon for every individual life. Ultimately, all your scientific knowledge counts for very little too, when you think about it. You may just as well throw your hat into the Existentialists' ring. Camus: the only philosophical question is whether or not to commit suicide.

but there doesnt HAVE to be a why. materialists could be correct and there is no purpose to our life. you could be correct in saying quoting Camus because he could be right.

we could also answer that its more fun to be alive.

none of those conclusions mean that there MUST be a why. and if there was some god for example we could still ask why...it will always be why ad infinitum.

Some Guy
- 06/22/2011 at 21:27

I agree completely. It's important not to confuse the "why" with the "how" as people often do. Regardless, there is no logical evidence from what I've seen to suggest there is purpose behind any of this. Rather, I think the need for purpose is a social adaptation to help us get through our societal requirements (which often ignore or outright attack the instinctual wants/needs we have evolved). Those people that started along the path of society (as we know it) without a sense of purpose to allow people to push through the baggage of totalitarian agriculturalism just didn't make it.

I'm a little annoyed by the attitude though of folks who ARE desperately clinging to the idea of purpose when they address the rest of us. Why must you assume that a nihilistic belief system must bring about a philosophic ultimatum involving suicide? Yes, there are alot of crappy things about life, but one can always strive to be happier. Just because we don't think there's any purpose behind all of this doesn't mean we don't experience joy or love...

wald0
- 07/15/2011 at 04:55

Materialism is a philosophy, so how could it disprove all philosophies? The definition of philosophy is- A set of views and theories of a particular philosopher. The scientific method is also a philosophy, though it can not be fully credited to only one person. Many historians give the honor to Roger Bacon (1214–1294) but in reality the scientific method had been discussed as far back as ancient Greece by Aristotle. Bacon did however iron out the details and help inspire the enlightenment, which was when the west truly started to embrace the scientific method.

As far as Dawkins being able to tell us why we are here, I agree that he can't but for much different reasons than you. I don't believe there is any one universal reason we are all here, except our biological purpose of propagating the species. Any other reasons we have are our own, and probably differ from most other peoples reasons. I decide what my purpose here is just as you decide what your purpose here is.

Some times that purpose changes because of events that take place in our lives, like having children. I know many parents that felt their purpose was this or that until they had children, then their purpose was to protect and raise those children no matter what. Everything else became secondary to them. If you ask someone that has just fallen in love what their purpose is they will make you sick with gushy sweet talk about how they were meant for so and so and they were meant for them, their purpose is to build a life together. But, ask the same person a few years later what their purpose is and many will say, "To get away form the life sucking BLEEP that I mistakenly married!" All joking aside, I really think we create our purposes in our own minds. There is no one real purpose for mankind except reproduction.

Anna Sullwold
- 06/09/2011 at 03:46

I can tell you why we are here. Evolution is the scientific theory, but science is wrong. We are here because God made us to love him. The dinosaurs came first, but the Devil destroyed them because God cannot destroy. So God made the animals you see today for companionship and food, as well as the plants, and the universe. These were all made to support human life. The Bible can tell you more, but for now, you have the answer: We are here for God. - A 12 Year-Old

You are a moderator talking to a 12 year old.
There are better ways to streer.
az

Epicurus
- 06/10/2011 at 00:43

it is censored. and being a moderator has nothing to do with the way i talk. it only has to do with making sure there are no swear words or hate crimes

i dont tell other people how they should be talking to people so please dont try and tell me.

Guest
- 06/10/2011 at 01:11

F***.... the.... what?

You are serious!

Never again will i try to trip you with my toe.
There are better ways to streer.
My little stars stand for ear.
az

Achems_Razor
- 06/09/2011 at 05:20

Ha,Ha, love it, the small fry have taken over TDF forums, listen Anna, tell your parents they are all wrong about the god stuff.

Guest
- 06/10/2011 at 01:23

You woman
beware you have entered a world of adults who think they know the way.
If they believed at one time, they won't allow others to do so because
they think you will never get away from the congregation.
Let me tell you, i think the world you have landed in, will destroy the idea of God from you. But you know what there will always be doubts in your mind, the scientists have them, the religious have them, the lovers have them, the haters have them, we all have them until we find something that fit the puzzle box we really are within.
Just live you life as if it is a game.
Look at your moves, there are only two kinds...you act and you react,
chose to your advantage instead of their disavantage
always in any situation...always with anyone.
Choose your values and your moral by how you see "you" with others.
Talk the walk and then walk the talk.
And no matter what GOD is, you will be walking towards it.
You may find it in a mirror!
az edited

Guest
- 06/15/2011 at 18:07

@gmf
Not Korean, French. (i still write better than a lot of English people here, and a lot worse than many Koreans)
I reread my post and you are right: it makes no sense to you.
I did enjoy your youtube clip.
We understand the universe the way we understand who we are.
Not.
But we are getting closer, star by star, thought by thought, word by word.
Thank you for taking the time.
az

Guest
- 06/15/2011 at 19:34

@gmf
and as you say: "God is something that is inside us, our wanting to create and assuming we are "created" because of our own perceptions."

Sounds like you copied me but kinda stretched it into something less direct.

Why on earth do people think there is a "why" beyond the same reasons for the existence of any other life form?

0zyxcba1
- 05/20/2011 at 11:20

If by 'why' you mean 'divine plan', then the answer is simple:
there is none.

For some this proves a lonely, existential view of reality; and maybe it is. But just because there are those among us who find this reality depressing, does not preclude it being reality. Things are what they are.

Naturally, the first objection will be: How do you know?

It is a simple enough question. And the answer is even simpler: I don't.

I don't know that there is/are no god(s), jut as you do not know that there is no 'Flying Spaghetti Monster'.

It's the same, old, tired demand that the skeptic prove the negative.
For the umpteen billionth time, burden of proof lies not with me; the burden of proof rests with YOU.

The question is NOT: 'How do I know there isn't'?
The question is: 'How do YOU know there IS ?

How do you know there is a 'divine plan'?
How do you know there is a 'why'?

Well, I'm waiting.

Guest
- 06/15/2011 at 20:20

Would calling it a "dive in" or "dive within" plan better?
Have you ever watched the movie Revolver by Luc Besson, same guy who did The Big Blue, The 5th Element, La Femme Nikita and many other great movies. (my fav with Claude Lelouch).
Anyway, great movie on the search for who is Mr. Gold (Mr. GOD). Does he exist and if he has to, then where other then where he comes from? Jake Green (as in $$) takes on the search from jailout.
az

Claude Lelouch "La belle Histoire"...the most beautiful film on a possible Jesus.

ihtasham30
- 05/05/2011 at 18:52

Technically all scientists/rational minded people know everything must have an end (which is why god cant exist), therefore the human race cannot survive for eternity, and all we learnt will go to waste.

Evolution isn't agreed with because we can't explain what's really going on. Evolution is agreed with because its the most well tested, successful theory in all of life science. To the best of our ability to tell, Evolution IS what's going on.

Guest
- 04/19/2011 at 16:44

The more we know about life
The more we know about biology
The more we know about cosmology
The more we know from Quantum science
The more Darwin is having problems with humans
The more Design become apparent

I myself tend to believe that we have created what we see therefore nothing exist outside of us. It is as if we are running a relay race to infinity in order to understand the universes and we keep passing what we think is the right knowledge, therefore we stay within the same course.
We need minds that can jump off track unafraid of being ridiculed, even in real unrealistic ways....and those are coming forward more and more even from the science world!
az

Anthony Pirtle
- 05/05/2011 at 23:32

Azilda, if you believe that the more we know about science, the less accurate evolution is, then you haven't been paying attention. You can believe in a designer if you wish, but there has never been evidence for one. Nothing in biology points toward one. Nothing in life sciences points toward one. Nothing in quantum science points toward one. Nothing in cosmology points toward one. There is no evidence of design or of a designer, except in the minds of people who dearly wish it was true.

Guest
- 05/06/2011 at 00:35

In my view there is one designer and IT is composed of approx. 7 billion particles of energy as of this minute, you and i being two of them. The only unchanging thing about IT, is that it is ever changing.
az

rawkidd
- 04/14/2011 at 13:55

well it turns out even science can't really tell us why we are here. there are many approaches to explain but then again, there's still no proof. even the big bang theory which has alot of problems in itself, is not the answer to why we are here.

Why? George Carlin give the ultimate answer: "Plastic". As a purpose.
How (we last so far)? this is a great mystery.. given the auto-destructive nature of human kind.
How we ended on this paradise?... Does it matter ? We have a purpose!
All in all , we ,humans, are just some kind of superior species that develop most destructive abilities and most of all, we develop an extraordinary- highly polished arrogance.
Fire ! :))

For the first time a sentient being has been created with a brain wired in such a way that it can understand its surroundings, can understand itself, and has the ability to gather knowledge over a period of time to understand the universe and its place in that universe.

I may not be the first to see this obvious observation to your insight, but let me just say this.... We do not know squat about how to raise our children, or even what foods to eat... Where to live or how to live in harmony with the things of this earth...This has escaped us as well... To state that we are here to understand the universe is quite a leap... The constant social upheavals and murder and mayhem in our society, doesn't indicate to me our status as a gatherer of knowledge yet.

Jacek Walker
- 08/14/2013 at 17:07

Exactly me feelings as well;
Humanity has failed on so many basic daily chores of life...unbelivable.

The question of big WHY arises because we instinctively or subconsiously feel that something must have gone wrong with our existance on this planet, call it life or whatever.

When we are healthy and happy and loving we never ask why, or do we?
We ask for reasons when someting is missing.

@azilda~
Apologies. You are 100% right. I'm afraid that I got lost down the rabbithole of contentiousness. Unfortunately, I'd been commenting at a right wing news blog this month and brought an air of unseemly defensiveness with me. I've left at the door now.
PS: That poem..."I am a doughnut"... did you get that reference to: "Ich bin ein Krapfen"...from a silly post of mine about JFK's Berliner speech? It's just a coincidence, right?

Wow never saw your comment before. My appologies for not responding.
My older posts are not coming under my file...
It is pure coincidence. ...and where do i read your bit?
az

Achems Razor
- 02/01/2011 at 02:16

@erie:

Careful don't give me away. classified you know!

Is Davies the guy (the surfer) that figures he has found the maths formula for the equation that has eluded Einstein GR, and the latest theoretical physicists, of the formula for everything. "The theory of everything"

If so yes, am familiar with the works.

D@mn, do miss Randy, maybe Hawking finally paid him the money he owes him and they are in collaboration on a project, Hmmm? did you get Hawking's new book, the grand design yet. cost about 40$ here in Canada.

the pi of i and 1
is concealed in a time machine
a never quite ready story
a never ending tale
a boundless scroll
a game of letters and numbers
of revolving thoughts and experiences
a declaration of knowledge
explained with a to z
by way of m and w
me and we
an i passing through O
like a jumping dog
a dot in a belly
a silly dough puttying around

listen to the beat of your heart
you will hear the swell of all hearts
dive to the well of eternity
and then climb to the zenith of perpetuityaz

LIsten you guys,people are going to disagree about alot of things on this site . That's what makes this site so special. Chances are you will disagree alot more in the future. But then again you will come together and agree on alot of things . Let things be for now and enjoy the doc.s that the owner of this site puts together with hard work and try to be as civil as I know you can be.

I have read alot of Lary Nines and Achems Razors comments and you both are very intelligent people and I enjoy reading your posts.

@ProudinUS~
Sure. Neil Young is Canadian.
@Canadian~
Look. I'm relatively new in here...I just discovered TDF. I'm just a retired engineer and teacher who likes history and science.
Not that it matters, but I haven't really been fighting anybody or insulting that guy Achmed...I even tried to apologize. I didn't make that original joke...it was someone else. No way I'm anti-Canadian...read the thread. Sure...I was kidding around, but that's difficult to tell in a comments section. Anyway, like I said..."Plus tard, aligator…après tout, crocodile!" I'm through interacting with Achmed R....this is not an appropriate venue for that. Sorry, you guys, if I rocked the boat.

and @Achems...for some personal reasons i am often curious about your opinion and comment...most of the time i find them informative but frankly here ...you have lost points.
I have often said: education will make you more intelligent but not necessarily smarter. You are showing here that you tongue can be like a Razor edge, you are using it to cut in the wrong material! The world will change faster with right reactions than with right actions.
How old are you?...nothing about a lack of maturity, just curious once again.
az

i don't quite understand why it is permitted to bother us viewers with your little fights....
The purpose of learning is to actually stop this bickering.
I am French Canadian born, but frankly i consider myself a body of the world...may be because i have travelled over 40 countries and met thousandssss of great people everywhere i went.
I truly dream that one day the borders will melt away and give rise to a being...not white or black or red or yellow or brown....but a great combination of all of us...a purple free Umanoid. (now make fun of this too if you wish!)
My suggestion to Vlatko is just delete this nonsense...specially if it takes over the comments forum.

Look I don't ever comment on retarted stuff like this, but I've been reading comments of people fighting on the internet all day..
It's ridiculous! It makes you both look like complete fools. You're probably both going to turn on me now. But you know what? I DON"T CARE. IT"S NOT WORTH IT. YOU COULDN"T EVEN RECOGNIZE EACH OTHER IF YOU WERE STANDING SIDE BY SIDE. For all you know you could be arguing with a 10 year old kid, or a 50 year old psychopath. Who cares if your offended by a comment that says Canadians are stupid??! Or any other comment for that matter. THEY ARE JUST LITTLE BLACK LETTERS IN A VAST CYBER SEA.
There are people in the world that are "offended" because a whole entire country decided to bomb them.... or a group of people decided they didn't like thier religion..
and here you are on a documentary site fighting like children over this? The irony of it is that it's a documentary asking the question "Why are we here?"
Do you think this is why?

Seriously just grow up and let it go. Hate harbours hate. And you'll never get anywhere with your bickering. Why can't you just let bygones be bygones? Are you that bitter and full of hate that you have to get on the internet and find people to bitch at? Behind a veil of secrecy and safety we call the internet? There should be much more important things in life man...
anyways..., thats my 2 cents.

@AR~
Look. I just posted a quote for Canadian...
>>> that's what these brackets are for...<<<
... so he could see what your ruckus is about, man.
Clearly you seem to like bicycles and bedding metaphors... right? So I'm sure you're right. I apologize to you.
In the words of the great French general, Marquis de Montcalm, at the battle of Quebec; "Plus tard, aligator...après tout, crocodile!"

@Canadian & Achems~~
I was only kidding with AR...and it wasn't even my joke. Here:>>>
Yavanna:
We are just hunks of meat – Canadians even more so!

Achems Razor @ Yavanna:
If there is something relevant you would like to add, than do so,or else “but the f**ck out” I take offense to what you just said!!<<>>:
@Achems Razor~
You’re an unpleasant fellow.<<<

The he got p*ssed. I told AR I was just kidding and he accused me of Canada bashing just because I liked the joke. So I quoted the Canadian National Anthem by heart, and I listed some great Canadians that I admire. Still not enough. So what can I do? Nada. Nil. Nothin'. I guess I should've supressed my internet humor at a documentary site like TDF, frequented by sensitive Canadians. I can offer no further defense. I will know better in the future---if there is one what with all the apocalyptic predictions of end times in here.

oh i see, i understand the joke now. I'm still not offended by it.. It's a harmless joke, big deal. It's not like they are planning a genocide or something.
Take it on the chin like a man, or get off the interwebs.

@Canadian~
I'm for what you said! You're my kinda Canadian in the tradition of Joni Mtichell and Naomi Klein... Neil Young and General Romeo Dallaire... I love my brothers/sisters of the north woods. And I did not think that joke meant all that psycho-twisty stuff that Achems said. I think he overreacted to the 'meat' metaphor.

No, that joke refers that we Canadians have less brains, then say the Yanks. That we are a substandard species, Hmmm? Some of the Yanks would not know what a beaver tail was, even if it hit them in the face.

I think we were put on this earth to bicker and fight like small children on the internet about a joke directed towards Canadians that i don't really understand. why it is offensive? I am a proud valley Canadian, and here we do eat a lot of meat. Is that the point of the "joke"? that we eat a lot of meat?
Ooooh you dirty b@#$%^&*! How dare you say we eat a lot of meat! (munch munch tear) That is so offensive!

All in all, we Canadians have a great sense of humor, we make jokes about ourselves all the time eh? It's all in good fun.

in one word: Everyone chill the f@#$ out. Relax. Have a beaver tail and go skating on the canal...

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

Here’s the expurgated posting yet again without the link:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry for the re-posts....I'm resolving a question.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Yavanna 12~
“Our purpose is to live; simple as that.”
At last, a correct answer. You get an ‘A’ today.
My answer is basically the same but a little more Eastern. It is this:
If there are 6.5 billion human consciousnesses on planet earth and, as such, then there are 6.5 billion versions of the “purpose of life”.
Another Yavanna 12~
“We are just hunks of meat – Canadians even more so!”
I laughed my *ss off! Great post.

@Achems Razor~
You’re an unpleasant fellow. And I’ve told you before about that user name…is the correctly spelled version not available? Also, these posts are not BLOGS. They’re comments. A blog is something else that grown-ups, like me, write. My blog ia an actual web site with lots of brilliant posts.

If the creature called Human consists of a body controlled by a brain,why does it seem to think it is actually two different entities? When "we" say "I can make myself change" who is "I"
or, "I can control how I think" who is "I".Does the brain really have the ability to control itself,or does it carry out what it was programed to do just like a computer program does? If so where did the program come from?

ask anyone who's died and returned back to life, after being told it's not their time. they know that there is a greater purpose to life. we all are born with life missions. most of us fail to carry out this missions...or even to become aware of them. they are hidden in our subconscious desires and longings. by following an overly left-brain/logical path that most of society does (i.e.: i need $$...i must do job that makes most $$...to heck with my own dreams and desires), we miss out doing our life mission.

so why are we here again? I think i missed that part, where they answer the question which is the title of the documentary...
As if they could.
They don't even come close to answering anything.. \of course.

What is OUR purpose, as human beings?
Perhaps it is to help life live.
Perhaps our purpose is to bring life to other planets,
to breed life.
Spread life across the universe like butter on a dry piece of toast.

But then my mind asks the question: Why is LIFE here? Why does "life" exist at all?

The only thing i can think of is that life somehow sustains the universe. Like a glue holding it all together through some sort of .. cosmic energy, science, magic? Who knows,.

But then you have to ask the question, why is the universe here? What is it's purpose?

I don't think any of us here will live to find the answer to that question, but then again i don't think there is an answer to that question. Rather, I think the answer IS the question. It's our insatiable hunger for knowledge, truth and meaning that creates the question.
We've become too smart for our own good. But maybe for the greater good, for our purpose, we're just smart enough.

Perhaps that's our sacrifice as human beings, to live blind, deaf and dumb to "the purpose", so that we may one day stumble upon it without ever knowing it. Because with all our great planning and goal making, human error is always present, and if we knew our purpose and could plan towards it, I just know that we would find a way to screw it up somehow.

I think we're carrying out our purpose in the universe right now, instinctively and unconsciously. And we couldn't do it any other way.

Think of this:

The universe or what we can comprehend of it, is infinite. Without a beginning or an end, it has always been and always will be. Nothing can create it and nothing can destroy it.
No big bang or great gods, evolution or magic.
Nothing can comprehend it and nothing can behold it. For it is ever changing, ever moving, it is neither big nor small, it has no size, shape, or color. If we could travel to the ends of it we would just end up exactly where we left off.
We are just specks of cosmic dust flowing through it.

Even though that is what i've come to think, the need to know "THE TRUTH" is still there even when i know in the bottom of my soul I would never be able to comprehend it. I still seek for it.

Our insatiable hunger for knowledge, truth and meaning.
If we have any purpose at all, that's it.

Never satisfied with the indifferent face of reality, we look for a soul behind the eyes, an eternal truth behind the lips, a mirror behind the mask.

All self aggrandizing delusions to the contrary aside, we are animals, no better and no different in any innate way than all the living things we share this lonely island of life with. Unique, yes. Special, no. This realization is slowly sinking in, as Homo sapiens continues its long walk from the warmth of childhood into coldness of truth. A truth larger than our ant-farm world and wider than 14 billion years. If there is something special about us, it is the fact that we have grown intelligent enough to require such explanations. Our tools for finding truth, however, are often outpaced by our need to have it, and by the greed of those who grapple power by claiming possession of, or connection with, the one truth. This is how tyranny of dogma arises.

Seize a single speck from a dust storm and still you will not have grasped the vastness of the universe, and the tininess of our place in it. We are a green speckled rock against a cosmic wind thrown together and about by forces vast and indifferent. It is tempting to believe that the stars shine down for me, but in truth, they just shine.

To exist without a purpose is a gift. The greatest gift, without which free will would be an illusion and life would be meaningless. To have a 'purpose' is to be stuck on rails. That is not life. But to self-discover, find purpose through your own meandering journey and make that purpose meaningful is the greatest attainment of sentient life, and the most beautiful thing that can ever be.

We are defiantly here for a reason and we also die for a reason and that is not paranormal the answers are in ur hands and u have been reminded u just don't care but have any one think about what is been happening to people after death?

After watching this atheist prone documentary, every one should read Kalima, that means there is no god but god and muhammed is the messenger of God as well as jesus and moses is the messenger of God. He is the ultimate creator. Before creation of heaven and earth, man, animals all surrounding things; he was existed and after destruction of all things he will exist. The purpose of creation of man by god is only worship him alone to live a peaceful life in the midst of people.

Evolution makes sense. Look how much religion has evolved. Each religion further denominates and separates like mitosis of cells. Like cells that eventually die and don't separate anymore; so will we die and the earth and the universe. oh wait, transform, not die seeing how energy is neither created nor destroyed. Would you rather live by man's law or God's law. Law follows the Bible to a "T". Richard Dawkin's religion is his own interpretation of everything even evidence that forms his belief. As far as I know though, evolution is merely a theory like everything else. Experience is a personal thing and is the only truth. I still think R.D. is cool.

Ok people i,am a cristian person i believe in the hebrew god i know he exist and his son but i got a question for dawkins and company why science do not believe in the myth of Atlantis? explain that to me? i know the answer what about all of you? By the way why plato say the history of atlantis exist? tip the history related to science and satanist secret cults world wide i tired of being scare stop living in the matrix and wake up to the real world do not be afraid of those who destroy the body.......

I find it sad that Dawkins is so revered or that he be thought perceptive. He attacks thoughtless faith yet hints in other ways that such faith is only flawed in its conception of the almighty and the qualifications of its faithful.
Doing so he manages to ignore the more profound aspects involved in what he argues. By focusing on the evolution of man he limits the field of debate to that of our bodies and not, one might note with some significance, our individual/communal spirit. Furthermore Dawkins refuses to touch on the possibility of whether such a spirit or soul might survive the death of it's vessel, or if it could have facilitated the development of said body through evolution. A sort of chicken or egg situation there but worth pondering.
I think Dawkins considers intelligence and knowledge a more definitive means by which we might explore divinity but hasn't the balls to say so. He focuses on attacking those with dogmatic paradigms instead, since its easier to point out that such conceptions are by their nature, primitive, and inadequate to their task.
All in all a poor philosopher who hasn't really offered anyone a thought that hadn't been previously voice generations before.

I found your comments on Dawkins' documentary refreshing to read and in close agreement with my own impressions just after watching it today.
While watching the video I found myself curiously awaiting Mr. Dawkins' final inspirational answer to the question 'Why are we here ?' - only to be told that the consolation to our 'accidental' existence is that we are able to observe, reflect and re-order the world in which we live. While his documentary is a nice elementary introduction to some of the superficial aspects of the mechanisms of evolution I found the final conclusions were a bit of an anticlimax.
As a scientist myself I find it a bit disappointing that someone with such widespread recognition can presume to be an expert on such great philosophical questions and present them with such supposed authority that many people will be tempted to succumb to his arguments against religious faith , God and creation.
It should be pointed out to many of the people who might be seduced by some of the superficial arguments presented by Dr. Dawkins , that the arguments presented in the theory of evolution cannot even minutely be cited as evidence against a God-centred view of the universe. What do I mean by this ? Well as a scientist and physicist I would suggest that before you can even begin to make claims for evolution you need to go back to a consideration of the wonders of physical science - the atom, the molecule and the utter 'unlikliehood' of the laws of chemistry without which biology wouldn't exist ,let alone evolution. Time prevents me from surveying some of the breathtaking facts which have been discovered and still are being discovered as we speak. I recommend Martin Rees' masterpiece , 'Just Six Numbers', which gives a beautiful insight into the fundamental nature of reality. In this book Rees discusses the importance of some of the most important constants which govern the nature and behaviour of the universe, such as the forces of gravity and electricity . The precision required for some of these constants is quite astounding (in one case its 1 part in about 10 to the power 43 !) The tantalizing thought is that if you were to modify any one of these constants by even the minutest amount, you wouldn't end up with a 'modified' universe, but rather you would end up with nothing ! If you add up some of the numbers and work out the probabilities , I use the argument that you have trillions of times more likeliehood of winning a national lottery than betting that one of these constants is just right by chance .How many of those who bet the lottery go to bed every night believing that they are likely to be the one to win ? Don't they rather hope against hope ?
Yes , Dr. Dawkins how about you start grappling with some of these cosmological ideas and then try to flippantly convince 'unenlightened' people that the world and all of us got here by chance .

Epicurus
- 10/02/2010 at 04:28

Husky, if something never comes from nothing then where did god come from? or where did the stuff god used to make everything come from?

Natural selection is PROVEN. before we evolved brains like we have now we were still very very clever just look at any primate. we also had more babies.

before you pretend to act all high and mighty why dont you get an education?

if you want to know what banged and where it came from we could get into that but i dont think you would understand it and it would take me a lot more effort than im ready to exert on you. you could just go study for yourself......you know...use that brain you have...i know thats a novel idea and not something you are often encouraged to do. but give it a try i think you will be pleasantly surprised.

I was also thinking. Natural selection doesn't make since. We humans shouldn't be here. Before we had evolved brains we should have been killed off. We procreate less and less often than our predators. Suck on that, Atheists.

we will prob never know why we are here? but if we were never ment to find out then why do we ask?? i am an open minded person and have been looking into the few theorys as to why we are here the romans idea as the gods had made us to worship them as this gives them strength but that only led me to think why would the gods need strengh what is it they actualy need strength to do? get up and get another beer out of the fridge?? and thats as far as i got with that one.... then if i asked anyone who had faith in this so called "GOD" i was told over and over again we was made to look after earth and all its creatures were as i think the earth and its creatures would be better without us... but in the bible it states that god made us in the image of himself because it pleased him. like now we are a hobby a self portrait off god himself does this aslo inculde murderes ans pedophiles?? i would think not but anyone religious would blame another being for that that god only makes good people. anyway my conclusion to the religious theory was if there was a "GOD" then this being does not have any feelings for indivdual creaturs no matter how much they worship him/her god is only there to keep balance watch the news e.g natural disasters and terroist attacks prove that god is not there to protect you "deliver you from evil" no matter how much you grovel in your selfish ways your life is a mere tiny speck of time spent on earth what makes you think you matter? so my beleif is this "GOD" is "mother nature" with an identity... then we move onto the scinence theory which again failed to answer the question "why are we here?" just told me how we got to were we are today... however i did watch a documentry that there are more of us out there not just on earth that we had been put here hundreds of thousands of years ago to save our existance the reason was unclear but mentioned another type of life that we were at war with and we wasnt doing to well so a few thousand of us put on a planet so far away were we wouldnt be found.. we were taught how to build ect which if you look at egyption scriptures shows pictures of beigns from the clouds rockets ect... maybe this is the were people got there idea of this "GOD" or "GODS" as it were?? and aprentley these beings keep check on us once in a while see how far we have adapeted what we have created ect.. as for evolving from apes i cant see that as dawin showed every creature evolves through a series of natural selection so if were a throught a series of natural selection from ape to human then why are there still apes in premative form?? surely they would all be humans? as they live on the same god dam planet in the same god dam country... i am not disrigarding the theory of we have evloved over thousands of years to become human infact i very much belive that just not from apes well atleast not from this planet i feel by our intelagence that it has taken alot longer to become how we are today then than any creature on this planet possibly before the planet even formed.... :)

Everything including you humans are streaming strings of 1s and 0s. You are digital avatars running inside my 9300AI tetra core. In reality it is 2250 CE and humans has been replaced by a cybernetic race which I am a part of. If you are wondering what your purpose in life is I can tell you already served it.

It seems to me that Dawkins' little diatribe here fails to adequately answer his question. "Why Are We Here?" cannot be answered with "Because we are here." You'd think as brilliant a mind as his wouldn't fail to see such a basic thing as circular reasoning. Just an opinion.

WOW....what a coincidence! My pocketwatch is of the same make as the one he picked up on the heath! Looks like a Chronometer Lip of French origin. Now I know that R.D. is an avowed atheist and with all that does happen on this planet I am pendulumn-like swinging back and forth from belief to dis-belief on this matter. After watching "Did Darwin kill God?" and the narrator professing his belief in both Darwins Theory of Natural Selection and a belief in God and then them throwing in the theory of Memetics...I am really confused now and finding out that rice and grapes have way more genes than we humans do...what's up with that? Arguably something happened and maybe someday with our innate curiousity we will solve this conumndrum...or will we. Is God Nature or is there an Intelligent Designer? I'll leave it up to you. I am getting a headache!!! Thanks Vlatko! regardless, the docs you post are the best. Time to break out my Darwin and Bible and what the hell maybe my Milton and Blake books also...But for soothing of my battered soul there's always Kahlil Gibrahn to fall back on!

I'm very honoured to receive this information teresa..oh my..i've just remembered..I had an angel reading from a complete stranger i was introduced to by my friend..this is now beginning to freak me out a bit.
It said a woman called teresa will be of great significance. A few nights ago I dreamt that I had a near death experience, although it was me in observer roll and I was being shown that if I dont stop smoking (i think it was that) then I would have to go through this or maybe it is the only way i will let go of my past??..
This is all too synchronistic for me.. better take heed.. also in my reading there was a bit about unicorns, before i believed angels, fairies, unicorns! to be the preserve of new agers but now i'm not so sure.
Anyway thank you for your insights, I fully believe you. God Bless

I allso forgot to say in the other post that the light is not like our light here on earth. It has different intensitys and even a very intense light does not affect your eyes as it does in physical for. Its more of if I had to try to explain it a difused light. A very clear white light. There is not really a source as here on earth. Every person or thing is lit as if light is shining on it as we know but it isnt. It is just lit. For instance you can see every detail of a persons face but there is no sunlight shining on it. You dont have the shadows and highlights. It is just all seen with its own light. It doesnt glow or anything, it just, is. There are also the vast areas of dark with nothingness and then you will see a arched doorway and it will have intense white light aluminating from the other side. But it doesnt hurt your eyes. There will be a person in a robe, very large standing in the doorway. You will acknowledge him and he will aknowledge you just by a look to each other. you know that you cannot go through the door. How you know this i cant explain except that you just know it and its accepted as such with no more thought to it. There is no strong emotions when you see this. It just is. You will also see solar systems, stars beautiful scenes. You will sometimes see the earth from far away. But the light even in the beautiful valley was very strange. It looked as if it was early evening when the sun would possibly be going down and the lights on the houses would be turning on. But it wasnt dark at the same time. There are things there that we have no words for here to explain. There are things Ive seen that I have no idea what they are. Ive had a angel I call it, wether or not thats what it was, holding a baby out to me from a distance with the babys feet facing me. A women with a beautiful full flowing gown on and beautiful clear white light radiating from her. Ive had a man that had brown hair that went little past his shoulders show himself to me and he had a cheese cloth like white shirt on, loose shirt and he held the pawm of his hand towards me and it came so close to almost touch me. Ive seen a mother in clothing from 100 years ago brushing her daughters long pretty hair. The light is pure and clean and white but not the light we are use to. You do not smell there with your nose. There is no sense of smell. But you dont miss it nor think about it when your there. It doesnt matter to you. You move yourself and do things with a body but yet you dont see your body. But I see others physical form. Why this is I dont know. You do not feel but yet a hug is just as great as it is with physical form. Its the same but different. You think the same, reason the same, have emotions, you can see the same, move, you can talk and communicate the same but through telepathy. Forget all the rest of what you know from your senses from a phyical body. It is then by soul, energy, love, will, intention, thought, emotion. This is what you have to use on the other side. This is what Ive learned and experienced so far. Ive got alot more to experience and learn. But for now this explains a little about the other side. A drop in the bucket literally. Look up near death experiences. Its interesting but learn to use your third eye and its alot different seeing it for yourself.

My son passed away 9 months ago. He was 22 years old. There is life after death. Ive seen my son and Ive seen the other side. The first place he went. Do you want to know what it looks like, then in the early morning, walk into thick fog. So thick you cant see anything around you. When you go there there isnt floors, walls, nothing that we call solid. There is no time as we know it here. My son knew I was there the second or even the moment I went there. We talked by telepathy. The more intense your emotions the louder you speak. You look exactly like you did in body but the first time I saw my son I only saw from his waist up. Then I saw him in my kitchen a week and a half after his death and I could see him full body with every detail and color as if he was standing there but let me say lighter mass. Lighter in not so solid but not able to see through him either. Every single detail of his skin etc. I then saw him in my kitchen a week or so later. He had a messege for me. I sat at my kitchen table and without trying I saw to my left his hand next to me reaching out writing on a white board. It was his hand in full detail. The space next to me was dark but his hand was lit up as if he was in the room with me. Normally I would turn to him and want to hug him. But for some reason the purpose is known to you so I just watched him write on the board. each letter he wrote I still saw (expected to see) I love you. He wrote IM Ali. then he knew I wasnt seeing what he was trying to write so he kept circling the dot on top of the i untill I saw what he was truly writing. It was IM ALIVE. When your on the other side your body is gone. you see, hear, think as you do here, feel as you do here. You do not actually feel like you do with your skin. But yet you feel. My son came to me crying and put his head on my chest. It was as the same as when he was in body but yet you couldnt physically feel it but yet the effect was the same and it didnt enter your mind that you couldnt feel him. I tried to pull him back into my home with me but I couldnt physically hold onto him, but mentally held onto him. Thats when I saw him standing in my kitchen. To move on the other side you have to do it by thought and focus. Its very difficult to learn to move towards something or someone. Intense emotion, more like a adrenalin rush I would describe it will move you easily. Of course there isnt adrenaline in actuality. Its a different world there. I have practiced for twenty years metaphysical and didnt know Id need it like I do now. Im learning third eye and have seen so many things on the other side. There is valleys and beautiful places there just like here. People look the same. Some different than we do. Ive seen black holes I call them with purple to blue to green color around the black hole and when you learn to move forward through them you see peoples faces and amazing things there. Its a completely different world with different physics there. Try meditating with your third eye and visualize and go see for yourself. You have the ability to do so. There is life after death, Ive seen it and you can to. You can visit. Just depends on how much effort you want to put into it and that it is with a open heart with good intentions. My son allways thought after death there was nothing. He now knows different.

This doc has given me no answers whatsoever. If our forward thinking or reasoning was triggered by some genetic survival impulses that took eons to develop it begs the question why just us. I mean, why have many other animals not developed such huge leaps in genetic code like we have? So what next? Surly if evolution goes on and on like some believe, then what is the next step and the next and so on. Will a pig someday in the future be able to talk and think and want things just for the sake of having things? Will they start wars with the pigs in far of lands? Surly by that stage we will have learned to do without a physical body altogether. We won’t need emotions or even sex. Mind you we aren’t to far from that stage already. To say that it’s just “ego” to believe we, each of us, have real significance and a meaning for being here is rubbish. What is the point of forward thinking or love, sorrow, reasoning, wondering, hope, despair and so on? Surly there is a reason why we have these gifts?
I believe we are here to find the truth. The truth of who, why and where. You may think of yourself as nothing but “here today gone tomorrow” but I believe we possess a spirit or a soul and we move on, but before we can move on we need to find out what that truth is. Some believe we live many physical lives and some only one. Either way we still need to find the truth. Maybe animals move on too but just not in the same way. If my life has meaning and if there is a reason for me being here right now at this time and place then surly that reason lays in the future somewhere. The past only gives me the clues I need. All other animals rely on the past and that is why they have not developed like us. We on the other hand are here for a future reason. We don’t need to repeat the past though we often do, but it’s our future that is our main reason for being here. All major religions have some clues as to what that future is. As for science, well now what was that I said about ego? The fact is if Dawkins and his likes have their way then they will leave us with no reason to be here in the first place and then we will just die off like all the other wretched animals. Maybe pigs will overtake us in evolution and kill us with pig-made global warming or swine flu.

This doc is good because it does actually explain why we are here. If you don't understand the implications of abiogenesis and evolution then read more about it, really interesting stuff. If you came here looking more for a purpose of life, then you must realise we are not here for a purpose, it is up to you to give your life purpose and meaning. We need to take responsibility for our own lives and decisions, and not be inclined to think that fate or some other force will fix everything for us.

Nah , not new age. A very good point. I guess survival can be considered intent . However, I will add that consciousness or survival is really just living our natural life . Well , unless you are a vegtable.

@Epicurus
"We are here as a biological by product of the chemistry and physics that were available during the big bang.we have no purpose and no intent.For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.Carl Sagan

I watched this last night and the comments posted . I thought , why is it that when someone talks on life they assume purpose? And when talking death assume life?

You put it simple when you quote " we float like a mote of dust in the morning sky.

What is that song Randy, you're old school, Dust in the Wind?No disrespect. You know this.

@Achems
"If we have no purpose and intent, then what is the driving force that causes us to be us, and if you are going to say biological, there still has to be purpose and intent.."

Why does there have to be anything ? Maybe it is what it is and we are biological product from a strictly cosmic era , that like the sun or everything else we belive in will cease to exist in its own time?

This purpose of behavior that sets us apart doesn't really hold up in our aggregate behavior. There's plenty of chaotic behavior in the way that our economy functions and in the way that governments interact. As an aggregate, we continue to consume irreplaceable resources and pollute the environment much like a culture of bacteria uses up the nutrients in its petri dish before it dies off in its own waste. Interesting how our large scale behavior seems to mirror that of mindless microbes in spite of the spectacular intelligence that we possess as individuals.

Well....what was the purpose of the other species of humans which have gone extinct? Surely the intent wouldn't be failure before prosperity would it? I think our fate is just as undirected as theirs was.

we are here as a biological by product of the chemistry and physics that were available during the big bang.

we have no purpose and no intent.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Carl Sagan

The size and age of the Cosmos are beyond ordinary human understanding. Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. In a cosmic perspective, most human concerns seem insignificant, even petty. And yet our species is young and curious and brave and shows much promise. In the last few millennia we have made the most astonishing and unexpected discoveries about the Cosmos and our place within it, explorations that are exhilarating to consider. They remind us that humans have evolved to wonder, that understanding is a joy, that knowledge is prerequisite to survival. I believe our future depends on how well we know this Cosmos in which we float like a mote of dust in the morning sky.

For most of human history we have searched for our place in the cosmos. Who are we? What are we? We find that we inhabit an insignificant planet of a hum-drum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people.

Why are we here? Quite simple really. To buy stuff!! We are born, we live, we buy some stuff, we multiply produce some more people to buy more stuff then we die. Oh wait no thats not true, some people are here to make the stuff that everyone else will end up buying. So for them, they are born, they make stuff, then they die. No?

In answer to your first query, I do enjoy @ Yavanna's blogs, it was just something between him and me at the time.
If I hurt his feelings than I apologize to him.

Your second query, about nothingness, you can find on my blog about "Null Physics"
On "The Elegant Universe" March 20th 2010 at 13:17...here on TDF.

About evolution, I myself am not entirely convinced of the arguments presented.
I am an Atheist, therefore I do not believe in creationism either, there has to be more, so I lean on science for some answers.

@Achems Razor, I find the offense your taking to be offensive! So but the fu^k out.
Why would you advice someone not to speak unless they have nothing of value to say in a way that has not value in it self? at the risk of sounding harsh dispassionate, who cares about the offense you take except for you? If being offended is such a bad thing for you I suggest that you do it less often in the same way an alcoholic should avoid drinks.

Also, I do like what you said about oblivion. But if you say there is no oblivion, or Nothingness then are you suggesting that there is always a Somethingness? That is must something always come from something? Does it do this infinitely? Or is there at least at some level a Nothingness? A Nothingness which gave rise to something.

As far this Doc is concerned the only problem I have with it, which is a problem that I have Dawkins himself, is the anthropomorphizing of the aspects of Evolutions. To say that Natural Selection is without purpose and then attribute to it 'selfish genes' and 'competition' is hypocritical. Competition implies purpose as one can only compete to win and evolution has no winners, it has no end. And selfish genes? Genes are not fighting against other genes, according to evolutionary theory they change randomly and propagate in a species only if natural selection is pressuring the effects of the gene. That doesn't seem selfish to me, it doesn't seem like I could put any intention behind genes at all. I just can't figure out why Dawkins constantly uses the language that he uses.

My idea up until 1-2 years ago of the 'life after death' was more a less an unconscious sleep. It is neither good, nor bad - it really doesn't matter or bother you, just like a few hours of sleep. I've explained it to my friends as a state of 'egal', which is actually quite hard to translate from German to English. Basically the state of 'whatever'.

In any case, through my pondering about this topic, I have lost my fear of death. I am quite interested, actually, to see whats on the other side. I don't know it, but I also need not fear it. Without nerve cells, after all, how would I feel pain in hell?

Because of this conclusion, I've decided to enjoy my life as much as I can, to do as much 'good' (or what I perceive to be good) as I can and to keep an open mind to what is in store for me. What is behind all of this? TBH, I have no clue and I will never be able to know. That's part of the whole mystery! After all, if we knew what this whole world was all about, it would get boring, eh?

Might have been off topic, but I guess I needed to get rid of that :-)

Just sifting through the comments. what you said, we will never find out, says it very succinctly.

Unless someone who has been there, to tell us what oblivion was like?... Good luck!

My view point is there is no oblivion. Out one door and into another instantly because oblivion means there is nothing, you cannot taste, hear, see, or smell or even think oblivion, there would not be any thoughts, there would not be any time span, would there? Only to the observer that is stuck in time, not the observed.

Does this make sense? It does to me. Since we are made from energy, that can never be destroyed.

well i guess we will never know why we are really here, but considering the fact that we r the only species capable of advanced logical thought processes (apparently). so the logical thing for us to do is live our lives, work to our own individual interests without undermining anyone else's which is probably what most religions dictate.

I recently commented on another doc regarding humanity's temporary removal of itself from natural selection. This short video addressed that somewhat, but I did get the impression that Dawkins is filling in an invisible crack. I believe that civilisation (such as it is) is a blip in the natural process and technology will only sustain it for a brief time. I also believe that other civilisations have come and gone. More than we might ever know about.

As for "purpose." That is the real question. My thoughts are we have no more purpose than does any other creature. It's yet another concept we have invented to massage our egos. Our purpose is to live; simple as that.

You know, I generally find Dawkins' publishings quite interesting and tought provoking. I've read a number of his books, and watched other documentaries. This is the first one that made me feel skeptical inside because he seemed to be subtly encouraging viewers that the best thing that we could have done was to break away from nature and create. Possibility of being skeptical may be due to having watched a number of other documentaries of late from this site and gaining different perspectives, I'd like to acknowledge that there are definitely some good things that can be accomplished with science, but what bothered me most was Dawkins' statement pertaining to the ability to feed the hungry, which is yet to even be accomplished at any real acceptable rate. I recommend the documentary on Monsanto which illustrates the bastardization of these positive sides to our scientific endeavors.

And I certainly agree with Jojo that it did little else to explain a possible purpose for human beings or for life itself which hadn't already been fairly widely known or put forward.

I d rather say it s biased... yeah, the purpose of billions of people is to pursue e.g. technological advancements in such a manner that our lives are a piece of garbage? The purpose is to work or be happy that governments take money to claim they actually do sth e.g. fake moon trip ~ apollo 11? buahahaha... no matter he is atheist and i m as well, i think his purpose leading to some extend to consumerism is rather a bad idea. Even though this quite short movie could have been one of the best (to which i have doubts), it doesnt satisfy my rational perception of world any more that i could have said by my own