It's probably a guarantee that those kids were playing video games they shouldn't be i.e. m rated games, amongst being exposed to other sorts of media they shouldn't be exposed to.

I'm not being sarcastic, here, Darq; I'm asking seriously: are you being ironic? Or are there actually video games out there that push the line too far and actively preach the message that violence is an acceptable answer with no real consequences?

Hey, for all I know, there might be. The worst I ever had to deal with while raising my daughter was Grand Theft Auto and those disgusting Saw movies. And she always had a firm enough grasp on the difference between fantasy and reality that she never gave me cause for concern. (Now, her mother, on the other hand,... But I won't go there, today. ) So I only had a little heartburn granting my daughter the freedom to find release in such media, myself._________________I am only a somewhat arbitrary sequence of raised and lowered voltages to which your mind insists upon assigning meaning

No, it's not so much the bounds of good taste that shock me--I grew up watching the horror genre devolve from Psycho to Texas Chainsaw Massacre, after all; good taste died a grisly death, long ago--as it is the blurring of the line between fantasy and reality. Can't those kids in that news article tell the difference between holding a game controller and holding a freaking weapon?_________________I am only a somewhat arbitrary sequence of raised and lowered voltages to which your mind insists upon assigning meaning

No, it's not so much the bounds of good taste that shock me--I grew up watching the horror genre devolve from Psycho to Texas Chainsaw Massacre, after all; good taste died a grisly death, long ago--as it is the blurring of the line between fantasy and reality. Can't those kids in that news article tell the difference between holding a game controller and holding a freaking weapon?

Well that's the thing. There are kids out there, who since they were old enough to pick up a controller, have been playing things like Saints Row, GTA, Hitman, Assasain's Creed, Call of Duty, and any number of games that do depict violence as the answer. The problem sounds cliche, but it's basically these kids being left alone for hours and hours unsupervised. Who knows what they are watching on TV or, even worse, the internet. All unsupervised. The one kid did have an older brother (the one he got the gun from) so maybe he was just playing/watching the things his older sibling enjoyed because he wanted to be like him. Maybe the brother baby sat while the parents were at work and did a piss poor job of it. We could speculate endlessly and never know.

My point is that even if kids are exposed to more mature subject matter, they need to be taught "Just because you see someone do it on TV/in a game/online, doesn't mean it's right". I cited media as an influence because the whole affair seems like something out of Hollywood. It seems like the kids were modeling their behavior on something.

To answer your question: no, those kids in the article can't tell the difference, that's why they did it. Lazy parenting in this country has reached crazy epic proportions._________________...if a single leaf holds the eye, it will be as if the remaining leaves were not there.http://about.me/omardrake

As may be, Sporko, but I'm afraid Darq might also have a point; something went horribly wrong with these kids. Attempting premeditated murder is not a normal pre-teen activity. Their actions say that they knew enough to expect people to try to stop them, so why didn't they know that what they were planning was wrongful in the extreme? Something critical is missing from these kids' moral development._________________I am only a somewhat arbitrary sequence of raised and lowered voltages to which your mind insists upon assigning meaning

Not so sure of that. Kids, especially adolescents, are really bad at recognizing the consequences of their actions and making sound judgments. Whereas we all know someone will try to stop us if we start doing something wrong, it's another matter to come to grips with the reality of killing somebody when you're that age.

Joined: 01 Oct 2006Posts: 9123Location: The thing in itself that is Will

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:53 pm Post subject:

Friends always made me contemplate premeditated murder. Sex and the City... we're talking genocide._________________When life gives you lemons, some people make lemonade. I just eat them and make a sour face.

but it's basically these kids being left alone for hours and hours unsupervised. Who knows what they are watching on TV or, even worse, the internet.

Is there a game you've played, a film you've watched or a piece of music you've listened to that you feel would be likely to push your children towards developing a personality disorder?

Potentially anything not meant for young viewers. About 75% or more of the DVD's I own and many video games I wouldn't let my kids watch or play. For those kids, it's everything they've experienced, especially if we're talking the younger years. These kids were 10 and 11, understanding consequences is something they're barely capable of.

Oh and music: This could be the worst of the bunch. You don't listen to industrial music much, do you? And glorification of violence in Rap? What you're not realizing is how a crucial component of literary theory pertains to this: the message intended by the creator and the message interpreted by the audience may not be the same. A story written by an artist as a catharsis over a violent, tragic event may wind up being misinterpreted by their audience as an advocation condoning same said act.

Bitflipper: What I'm saying is that a single event doesn't produce this. First there needs to be a set up, namely shitty parenting. I'm sure they went through hell. They probably have a ton of problems that have been forming over the years, BUT that doesn't change what they planned. What I'm saying is that what they planned, not necessarily the reasons for it, seem likely to have been heavily influenced by a story intended for adults.

And I don't sound like some middle aged woman. I'm not crying and screaming "OMG violent video games are BAD! EVIL ! SPAWN OF SATAN!!"

Not what I'm saying at all.

What I am saying is that age ratings exist on media (games, movies) to help prevent them from influencing young, impressionable kids. It's our collective way of saying "You need to be XX years old to view/experience the event depicted here." Young kids do not need to see excessive, detailed, realistic depictions of violence and aggression, ESPECIALLY if they are subjected to these depictions on a regular basis, as in hours a day, almost every day a week, like how many kids play video games.

TL;DR Material intended for mature audiences, when not properly contextualized, can have dire consequences upon young children._________________...if a single leaf holds the eye, it will be as if the remaining leaves were not there.http://about.me/omardrake

Bitflipper: What I'm saying is that a single event doesn't produce this. First there needs to be a set up, namely shitty parenting. I'm sure they went through hell. They probably have a ton of problems that have been forming over the years, BUT that doesn't change what they planned. What I'm saying is that what they planned, not necessarily the reasons for it, seem likely to have been heavily influenced by a story intended for adults.

Oh, I get what you're saying, and I'm not even disagreeing. Whatever their reasons, these kids will have to face the consequences of their choices. Their parents probably should be held at least partly culpable, too (let's see what evidence gets presented at the trials, though, before we get too gung-ho about stringing up the parents. Who knows? It may just be that the parents are merely fucking idiots instead of abusive monsters.) As a society, we cannot turn our heads away from situations as threateningly dangerous as this, and we cannot let it slide without consequences to show that we will not tolerate scenarios such as this. That those who planned it are children does not ameliorate it; it makes it worse and even less tolerable.

I'm obsessed with understanding why, though, because the youth of the miscreants coupled with the cold ruthlessness of their planning shocks me. I want to know how this came to be.

Darqcyde wrote:

And I don't sound like some middle aged woman. I'm not crying and screaming "OMG violent video games are BAD! EVIL ! SPAWN OF SATAN!!"

Yeah, but surely you knew to expect some sort of knee-jerk reaction along those lines the minute you said "video games," even from a crowd such as this that actually takes the exchange of ideas and viewpoints seriously and devotes some good thought and effort to its rebuttals? Not saying you don't have a point worth considering, but, let's face it, that's kind of like waving fresh, raw chicken under a wolverine's nose, yeah?_________________I am only a somewhat arbitrary sequence of raised and lowered voltages to which your mind insists upon assigning meaning

hey darq isn't this the same thing you said in that discussion about parents taking their children to restaurants because when you were a baby you caught polio in a strip club?

Did you suffer at the hands of a critical piece of literary theory as a child?_________________Once, at a local NOW meeting where I was the only male among about a dozen women, a feminism trivia contest was held. I came in third.