Welcome to HVAC-Talk.com, a non-DIY site and the ultimate Source for HVAC Information & Knowledge Sharing for the industry professional! Here you can join over 150,000 HVAC Professionals & enthusiasts from around the world discussing all things related to HVAC/R. You are currently viewing as a NON-REGISTERED guest which gives you limited access to view discussions

To gain full access to our forums you must register; for a free account. As a registered Guest you will be able to:

Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts.

A few questions.
Setting aside the diagnostic fee-
Are you happy with the contractor?
Did he do a quality installation?
Does he show up on time?
Is he professional?

If you answered yes- I'd pay the man before I called anyone else out. That's my opinion. Is it really worth it to call out someone else who didn't install the system? Who knows what quality work you will receive.

On my installs- I charge a diagnostic after a year. I have to. There's no real money to be made on warranty work- no matter how the manufacturer spins their words. I will waive the fee for certain situations but I spell it all out in their contract.

Remember- on a quality installation which I'm assuming you have- warranty work is rare. If you are lucky- this could be the only repair needed for years- assuming you have regular service performed.

I say pay the man & move on. It's not worth rolling the dice on a new contractor who didn't install the system.

precision hvac - All very valid points!! I agree it would be MUCH easier to pay the fee and get the reimbursement that Goodman offered. A couple issues with this:

1. I don't like the idea of calling Goodman every time I have warranty work to get reimbursed.
2. I think the whole process is deceptive and unethical. Probably most of the blame lies on Goodman for allowing the loophole, but the contractor is not completely innocent either.

Agree the install was done very well and in general the original contractor has done a pretty good job in the past. I have two units (the other one is Carrier and is out of warranty). Same contractor installed both units. Earlier this year a leak developed in one of the capillary tubes on the Carrier. The original contractor said the whole condenser had to be replaced at a very high cost. I called another contractor for a 2nd opinion. The 2nd contractor agreed to repair the capillary at overall less than half the cost of replacing the condenser. (the biggest cost was 8.5 lbs of R22....ouch!!!)

Reason I mention this is I'm not 100% happy with original contractor based on these two incidents. However, I agree the risk is great moving to another contractor who did not install the system. It's a matter of holding on principal vs. taking the path of least resistance (I tend NOT to be a guy who takes path of least resistance!!)

If my co. originally installed the system, and we sold you the extended warranty, I would come out and fix it for "FREE" and deal with Goodman on the issue....If a simple diagnostics fee is going to keep bread off your table, you need to find another line of work

This is the Ask Our Pro's forum. In order to post a response here, you must have verified qualifications and have been approved by the AOP Committee. You may ask a question by starting a new thread.

I just read one of my Goodcare contracts & there is nothing that remotely suggests paying any extra fees to the contractor for a covered warranty repair with the exception of "repairs done outside of normal business hours". As a matter of fact the way the contract is worded, Goodman is responsible to reimburse the customer for any charges they incur for the warranty repair. The HO is responsible for unit accessibility but that's about it. That is probably why they offered to reimburse the OP in this situation. They do not expect the HO to incur any expense & so they reimburse the contractor but ultimately they are responsible to make sure the HO does not pay for anything that is covered. I blame manufacturers all the time for cheaping out & causing us problems but in this case I can't blame Goodman because a contractor wants to get more money than they contractually agreed to.

Gary
-----------http://www.oceanhvac.com
An engineer designs what he would never work on.
A technician works on what he would never design.

I just read one of my Goodcare contracts & there is nothing that remotely suggests paying any extra fees to the contractor for a covered warranty repair with the exception of "repairs done outside of normal business hours". As a matter of fact the way the contract is worded, Goodman is responsible to reimburse the customer for any charges they incur for the warranty repair. The HO is responsible for unit accessibility but that's about it. That is probably why they offered to reimburse the OP in this situation. They do not expect the HO to incur any expense & so they reimburse the contractor but ultimately they are responsible to make sure the HO does not pay for anything that is covered. I blame manufacturers all the time for cheaping out & causing us problems but in this case I can't blame Goodman because a contractor wants to get more money than they contractually agreed to.

Gary - I agree with your interpretation, however, here is the specific item in the Goodman contract my contractor pointed to that they say allows for charge of diagnostic fees. They sent me a copy of the T&Cs with yellow highlight on the words below to "prove" they are justified in charging the diagnostic fee:

"PURCHASERS RESPONSIBILITIES - you will be responsible for the costs of any service call requested to demonstrate or confirm the proper operation of the Product(s), to correct an improper installation, or to correct malfunctions in the Product(s) related to the operation of the Product(s) in a manner not prescribed by, or cautioned against, in the Goodman Operating and Installation Instructions."

I believe my contractor got it wrong and my interpretation of this section is that if the contractor comes to my house and finds the system is working properly and that he has to "demonstrate" how to operate the system (due to user error) or "confirms" that the system really is working properly, then the purchaser (me) is responsible to pay for the service call (this is perfectly acceptable, if the system is working it's not a warranty call and I should pay the contractor for his time).

In general, the whole agreement has numerous areas of wording that I interpret to mean the purchaser should have no out of pocket expenses during the warranty period. It is curious though that the word "diagnostic" does not appear anywhere (either as a covered or non-covered expense) and even more curious that Goodman warranty dept seems to agree (or at least leaning toward agreeing) with my contractors interpretation.

Gary - I agree with your interpretation, however, here is the specific item in the Goodman contract my contractor pointed to that they say allows for charge of diagnostic fees. They sent me a copy of the T&Cs with yellow highlight on the words below to "prove" they are justified in charging the diagnostic fee:

"PURCHASERS RESPONSIBILITIES - you will be responsible for the costs of any service call requested to demonstrate or confirm the proper operation of the Product(s), to correct an improper installation, or to correct malfunctions in the Product(s) related to the operation of the Product(s) in a manner not prescribed by, or cautioned against, in the Goodman Operating and Installation Instructions."

I believe my contractor got it wrong and my interpretation of this section is that if the contractor comes to my house and finds the system is working properly and that he has to "demonstrate" how to operate the system (due to user error) or "confirms" that the system really is working properly, then the purchaser (me) is responsible to pay for the service call (this is perfectly acceptable, if the system is working it's not a warranty call and I should pay the contractor for his time).

In general, the whole agreement has numerous areas of wording that I interpret to mean the purchaser should have no out of pocket expenses during the warranty period. It is curious though that the word "diagnostic" does not appear anywhere (either as a covered or non-covered expense) and even more curious that Goodman warranty dept seems to agree (or at least leaning toward agreeing) with my contractors interpretation.

Your interpretation of the paragraph is 100% correct and your dealer is wrong. And if you check with the insurance commissioner in you state you will probably find that any dealer that charges a diagnostic fee to perform the contract is illegal.

...........
"PURCHASERS RESPONSIBILITIES - you will be responsible for the costs of any service call requested to demonstrate or confirm the proper operation of the Product(s), to correct an improper installation, or to correct malfunctions in the Product(s) related to the operation of the Product(s) in a manner not prescribed by, or cautioned against, in the Goodman Operating and Installation Instructions." ...........................

I read the same thing & don't see how anyone can interpret that to include a fee to find a defective warranty part.

Gary
-----------http://www.oceanhvac.com
An engineer designs what he would never work on.
A technician works on what he would never design.

Your interpretation of the paragraph is 100% correct and your dealer is wrong. And if you check with the insurance commissioner in you state you will probably find that any dealer that charges a diagnostic fee to perform the contract is illegal.

second opinion - Very interesting comment. Personally, I'd like to see Goodman take a position and enforce that position with their dealers. Seems that most of the pros on this site agree with my interpretation that there should be no out of pocket based on the terms in the contract. I wonder if Goodman would take a position if I "offered" to send a copy of the T&C's to my state's (NC) insurance commissioner to get their interpretation of the agreement? Could be an interesting conversation......

Lord you people make a at lot of stink about nothing and then you throw around thinks like immorality and unethical. I think most of you just spout this nonsense to make yourself feel good and appear superior.

First off I do not remember anyone saying they charged a trip charge or diagnostic fee to their customers and certainly not in the first year.

For all those trying to sound all superior and the OP answer this, you go on a service call (not your install) that turns out to be covered by an extended warranty. The compressor is shorted to ground, do you charge a diagnostic fee to determine why the compressor failed, determine why at no charge or just replace the compressor blindly without determining the underlying problem.

If you do the first option good for you, if option two is your choice why bad business decision and option three whom is being unethical and immoral here.

For the OP which do you think is appropriate and why.

For me I am going to check TESP and determine airflow, perform an acid test check voltage and do what I need to correctly diagnosis the reason for the compressor failure. The same would go for other issues and these things are not covered by warranty.

Now if this is my install then I do not need to go through these because it was done properly in the first place.

To the OP you seem like a person the old adage penny wise and pound foolish might apply. You had a contractor come out that you have used and admitted they have performed well and did a quality install on your systems. Now you have a unit that is appears from your comments to be over ten years old develop a leak. They recommend you install a new condenser but you choose to have another contractor repair the leak for half the price. OK what is the warranty on the repairs and what do you do when in six months or a year it develops another leak. Will you spend the other half of that condenser to have it repaired with no warranty; because no company is going to warranty a unit against future leaks.

I will also say this in thirty years I have never had a customer question or complain about the policy of charging a trip charge on a warranty call.

One more question to the OP and the techs here, OP have you had annual service performed on either or both of your systems and to the techs what do you do when the customer calls up three years after an install has never had you out to service the equipment. Do you still say not trip charge.