Record High Number Of Americans Renounce Their Citizenship

is an aspiring philosopher king, living the dream, travelling the world, hoarding FRNs and ignoring Americunts. He is a European at heart, lover of Latinas, and currently residing in the USA.

It is no surprise that frustration and discontent with life in the West is growing. Following a declining economy, America is no longer seen as a viable employment destination, as net immigration from Latin America turned negative in 2007. Indeed most foreign born residents of America are now from Asia, not Latin America.

There also seems to be an anecdotal increase in stories from people like Roosh, who have all but abandoned the West, favoring the slightly greener pastures found abroad. Indeed, my first exposure to the pre-manosphere was an article written years ago by Matt Forney about leaving behind the trash of the West in order to meet high quality females in Southeast Asia.

Poor Mexican to America: Eh, no thanks, I’m good!

It may come as little surprise that record high numbers of US citizens have renounced their citizenship. While the overall numbers are relatively low (under 14,000 renounced since 2010 out of an overseas population estimated at 8 million), there are important points to consider.

Renunciations have accelerated exponentially

Renunciation was relatively low in 2000. The Patriot Act did not yet exist. The twin towers were still standing. America was clearly on the decline socially, morally, and economically, but there was no doubt that we were the one remaining superpower, and for all our faults, still a really good place to live. In 2000, just 432 citizens renounced.

Five years later, the total climbed to 764, an increase of 77%. In 2010, the numbers spiked again, due to FATCA (see below) to 1,536. 2013 saw record numbers of renunciations–indeed an increase of 221% over the prior year. 2014 was another record, and the total for 2015 has already surpassed 2014’s record and the year is not yet over. Total renouncing citizenship in 2000: 432. Total in 2014 was 3,415, an increase of 691%.

The reported numbers are undercounting

The figures above only represent cases about whom the Secretary of the Treasury has data. In other words, the majority of these cases are wealthy people who want to avoid the draconian tax rules of the US, who along with the African paradise of Eritrea are the only two nations on earth which tax income worldwide.

Consular expatriations, where the American enters the consulate and formally renounces (the way Lee Harvey Oswald supposedly did) are not counted in this number!

Renunciation is a very drastic step

Renunciation is the final step along a path that has many other options—traveling abroad, working abroad, living abroad, investing abroad, marrying a foreigner, obtaining another passport—these are all things one can do while still retaining US citizenship. Renouncing citizenship is a very serious final step, and one that the US government does not take kindly to.

Renouncing means giving up the right to vote in US elections, pass on citizenship to your children, receive government benefits, and most importantly, the right to freely enter and exit America. In order to visit America, someone who has renounced must apply for a visa the same way a goat herder from Ethiopia would request to visit.

The biggest problem is that the government typically acts out of spite and will deny these visas, meaning renunciation often means saying goodbye permanently to friends and family in the US. And to add insult to injury, the US charges a “renunciation fee” for those who tell it to go pound sand, a fee of $450—oops this has just been raised to $2,350. And even still there is a backlog of cases waiting to be processed.

Renunciation is a proxy for many others who have unofficially abandoned America

For every person who officially renounces, there are literally thousands of others who have unofficially renounced. There are currently around 8 million Americans estimated to be living abroad. Some of these, perhaps many of these, have no intention on living a life in America.

Perhaps they are on permanent vacation. Perhaps they are marrying a foreigner and choosing to live in their country. Perhaps they have obtained a second citizenship in another country, which is fully legal for Americans to do. Perhaps they are enjoying a different lifestyle while maintaining an online business. But many of them have given up on America. They simply haven’t gone through the steps of formal renunciation.

Moral Reasons

As America has continued waging war on wedding parties and goat herders in the desert for the past 15 years, it has weakened its currency through bailouts and massive currency creation and below market interest rates, spied on the phone conversations and internet activities of all of its citizens, legalized abortion and gay marriage, encouraged and allowed slutwalks and gender fluidity, and endorsed a morally questionable view on morality, sexuality, marriage, and justice.

The US is incarcerating more citizens per capita than any other nation on the planet, surpassing China, Cuba, and North Korea, the supposed “axis of evil,” while maintaining offshore facilities that torture and commit war crimes that America executed others for committing 60 years ago. Considering these factors, many have decided that enough is enough and that they cannot, in good conscience, continue to support a regime of evil, and formally renounced all ties.

Again, this is a proxy for thousands if not millions of others, who do the same thing through joining war tax protestors, working in the underground economy, or merely choosing to earn an income below the threshold of taxation.

As a side note, I recently returned from a trip to Costa Rica, and visited a town that was founded by American expatriates. The cloud forest of Monteverde, in northwestern Costa Rica was founded by a group of pacifist Quakers who abandoned the USA during the draft imposed during the Korean War. Costa Rica, unofficially known as the Switzerland of Latin America, is a pacifist and neutral country with no army.

The area is now a popular tourist destination, and the Monteverde Cloud Forest Biological Preserve exists due to the efforts of these former Americans. Often you will see groups of expatriates making important accomplishments in their new countries, after escaping the rat race and leaving the cubicles of America behind. Today, Monteverde is a popular destination for other Americans looking for a new place to live.

Financial Reasons (FATCA)

In 2010, the US Congress passed a draconian law which has curtailed most international banking for Americans, unless you are a billionaire or an international corporation. FATCA requires “all US persons” and their banks to issue detailed reports to the US Treasury. The law was completely unnecessary, as it is already federal law that any bank accounts of $10,000 or more must be reported on your tax form.

But this new law requires, for example, a 35-year-old man born in Korea to a Korean mom and American dad to submit detailed information on his bank account. Since this man may not even realize he is an American citizen, has never lived in or visited America, doesn’t own a US passport, and since he may not be required to pay any taxes or file a tax return, he probably won’t file the necessary forms, which means the US government can then penalize him and any bank that doesn’t comply must withhold 30% of any amounts transferred, and civil penalties can often wipe out your account in as little as 2 years.

That’s right, you could lose 100% of your assets just because you didn’t fill out a form in a country you’ve never even visited. The cost of compliance with FATCA—an American law—in the United Kingdom alone, is estimated at $80 to $150 million a year. So what did most banks do? Refuse to do business with any American. Period. And any Americans or people with American parents who have never lived or even visited the USA now choose to renounce their citizenship.

Losing the best and brightest

If you are a billionaire, you can be happy just about anywhere in the world. If I were a billionaire, my main criteria about where to live would be based on the climate and weather, as literally everything else from women to food to housing can be provided by your wealth, to the same degree abroad as in America, if not more so (I don’t think Ivory Coast is going to deny you a permit for a swimming pool along the coastline the California regularly does).

But since America does have the world’s most regressive international taxation rules, being the only country outside a violent African dictatorship to tax citizens living abroad, many wealthy people, like Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin, decide to just say adios. Saverin took the money and ran, and although he paid all taxes he owed, the US now loses out on all future taxes from him.

And incidentally, US tax rules allow *foreigners* to earn as much profit as they want in America, tax free, so all that Facebook stock he owns, they can’t touch now that he’s moved to Singapore. This not only affects the US financially in lost revenues, but there is a real danger of a brain drain as talent leaves for countries with fairer tax systems.

The Implications

Be aware that US citizenship reported renunciations are up almost 700% from 2000, and that many more have “all but” officially renounced. This includes those who have left America with no plan to return but did not take the final step of renouncing citizenship. This includes MGTOWs, retirees, internet businessmen, and the motivated entrepreneur.

There were those who left fascist Germany in the 1930s, and those who died of starvation in camps in the 1940s. I’m not saying America is going to become a war zone, or start rounding up citizens into re-education camps. I’m simply saying to be aware of what’s going on and what others are doing and understand there are reasons motivating their behaviors.

Also understand there are options out there, and you can live, work, and obtain citizenship abroad without having to renounce your own US citizenship. If you are living abroad, strongly consider consulting an accountant to make sure you are not putting your money at risk.

Finally, this fact is evidence that America needs to change. When even Mexican farm workers don’t want to come here and pick watermelons in the sun for 12 hours a day, you know something’s wrong with our society.

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180 Responses

Yes, the US will soon be a war zone. Don’t be shocked by that. It’s coming.
Also, revoking citizenship is probably not even the biggie. Revoking one’s SOCIAL SECURITY ENSLAVEMENT NUMBER is probably of much bigger significance and hence much, much harder to do. Our Massuhs are not going to let us out of the system as easily as just revoking citizenship.

Rifle’s gonna work against thieves, robbers, and brigands when the sh#t goes down, but the days of using mere guns to fight the government are long, long over. They got crowd control weapons that will make you soil your undergarments without even you being able to see them, and that’s not even counting the nukes, lazers, stealth fighters, aircraft carriers, etc, not to mention the total surveillance which they have over everybody’s every movement.

They re not bullet proof and many may not fight for the government. Remember the men fighting to oppress men fighting for freedom are fighting to be kept in their cages. Those men can be turned with out a shot. Never fear evil.

Or make a different play besides going out guns ablazin’ to some remote operated drone that is going to exterminate you with ridiculous ease (if it comes down to Joe .45 vs the government, which it won’t). George Nada is right. Things are different. The ‘Braveheart’ contingent on ROK has been getting strong lately. I say there are other plays to make; minimalism, low-profile, hunting and fishing skills, gardening skills, canning/jarring skills, overseas life.

I’ve been thinking about the SS#. The government wanted to please employers by allowing so much illegal labor in, that stolen numbers are a given. Companies have stopped checking them, and also give out pay on cards instead of depositing it into bank accounts. It’s easier to go underground now than it ever was. The people fooled by the whole “American Prosperity” lie are the only ones taking it seriously. Over the past 20 years I’ve met literally dozens of people living on the fringe of society, using stolen numbers to open bank accounts and get jobs. And nobody’s checking on them. Well, these people speak mostly Spanish, and average Americans have taken a back seat to them. See my post above: If you walk into a bank or DMV as a white person, your background is checked back to Moses, but if you’re hispanic they let you pass through without background checking.

If you really want to know the answer why Latin American invaders are given privileges over White Americans today, American inventor SAMUEL MORSE wrote two books of prophetic warning which foretold all of this. He wrote the books back in the mid 1800s, and he wasn’t the only one saying it, either. But all of that wisdom has been memory-holed today, and his books are long out-of-print, and his wisdom would certainly be rejected by even most guys on this site, such has been the propaganda over the past 100 plus years. But Morse’s books are available online in PDF. They have long titles, so I will give you the short versions: One is called FOREIGN CONSPIRACY and the other is called IMMINENT DANGER. Again, both by American inventor Samuel Morse who invented Morse Code. So he wasn’t exactly a dumb guy.
Well, it ain’t popular, but if you want the answer to the question you seek, it’s there if you take the time.

“But since America does have the world’s most regressive international taxation rules, being the only country outside a violent African dictatorship to tax citizens living abroad”

I still don’t understand this. If I was an American living in Russia, and I didn’t have any property in the US, how would the government punish me for not paying taxes? Tell me I’m a bad boy? Invade Russia?

It still doesn’t seem that Russia cares much about that. They helped Edward Snowden, and he did much worse to the US government than not paying a few bucks. I doubt that they really put much effort into following those treaties.

In addition to everything mentioned by the author it’s also big companies not wanting to hire Americans. They’d rather ship jobs to Mexico or Indonesia eventhough they can still make profit hiring an American worker. Nike’s CEO bragged about hiring 12 year olds and paying them $1/day. He must really hate American workers for putting their kids in school instead of working in a factory for a buck a day.

FATCA is a nightmare that needs to be repealed. It is not only a hassle for Americans, non-US citizens often have to fill out extra banking paperwork to prove that they are NOT US citizens. I think that renouncing your citizenship is a bit extreme. If you are really concerned about taxes you can always incorporate offshore in a tax friendly country and control your personal income that way.

If you want to renounce your citizenship then you better have A LOT of load of asset and money stashed somewhere. I still say keep your US citizenship. You never know when US might recover and it’s still the place to make money. I’d say make US money and spend it in foreign currency and spend your time in foreign country.

Weddings and goat herders? You mean the people beheading Christians and gassing civilians? This is a dramatic misstatement of the Middle East, regardless of how you feel about Iraq or Afghanistan. Goat herders and weddings didn’t crash airplanes into the Twin Towers. Vile Islamofascists did, which is who we were fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Draconian tax laws? When the top marginal tax rate is 37%, it is relatively low compared to other countries. Even my home country of England has a 50% marginal tax rate on top earners. It is even higher in some of the Eastern Bloc countries who have openly embraced socialism.

Further, its hard to find another Western country that has gun laws as good as ours.

By all means, move to Russia where you can have an Alpha in charge…who murders anyone who criticizes him.

This hit piece on America should be a wake up call to clean up America, not move to Orwellian nightmares such as Russia or China.

When the top marginal tax rate is 37%, it is relatively low compared to other countries.

You’re lucky if that’s all you pay. When you add in state and local income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes and all the other taxes, and the costs of health insurance, the average working stiff pays probably half his income in either taxes or mandated purchases.

I agree, but as we saw in 2008 and 2012, the majority of voters for presidential elections are not interested in doing either. If any of these selfish morons knew that we had elections every year and showed up to vote Democrat we’d be even more screwed.

Heck, most probably pay nothing and could not care less about how much the rest of us have to pay.

Yeah man. Great idea! Let’s do it!…..Oh wait. Republican voters are passing away daily in the thousands and the huge Millenial voting block is about 87% SJW liberal and also the dumbest group of people in world history.

Precisely. The Saudis are the “vile islamofascists” who comprised 90% of the twin tower attackers and are funding Sunni insurgency throughout the region, yet they are America’s ally, while goat herders and opium farmers (America started the opium trade there as well) in other nations hundreds of miles away are blown to smithereens.

The Saudi Government had nothing to do with 9/11. bin Laden’s Saudi family disowned him long before the attacks. Further, the Taliban allowed training in Afghanistan and gave support to Al Qaeda. Bin Laden specifically chose Saudis for 9/11, knowing that low-information voters would make the same mistake of association you have (I’m assuming you are not low information, you merely made the same mistake many low-information voters make).

More importantly, we didn’t attack goat herders, we attacked the Taliban government that was openly supporting the organization that did 9/11. Opium has been growing in Afghanistan for years, since we British grew it in the region to sell in China.

Merely because a nation is secular doesn’t mean it is good for the US. Soviet Russisa was secular. Nazi Germany was secular. Saddam Hussein was relatively secular, which is why we supported him in the 1980s. It does not mean he was (or even might be today) the best choice of allies in the region.

As to Hussein, I think everyone short of W himself would admit removing him was a mistake. Trump recently made the statement, and no one called him on it.

As to the Taliban, they are long gone, and have been for years. Yet America still continues its war.

As to Saudia Arabia, here are the facts: 17 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi. That’s undeniable. The 911 commission report had 28 pages redacted that the commissioners are not allowed to talk about. But it has been leaked that this implicates Saudi Arabia’s government as funding and planning the attacks. This has been reported extensively in mainstream media:

Removing Hussein was only a mistake in how we did it: several strategic errors, such as the disbanding of the Iraqi Army, were counterproductive to setting up a stable subsequent regime.

As to the Taliban being “long gone”…just isn’t correct. The Taliban recently retook Kunduz, a city i was stationed at a few years ago.

I have no doubt that many individual Saudis (some who may even hold government positions) have donated money to Islamofascist groups. Yet during the Troubles in Ireland, many Americans were donating to Irish terrorist groups, while the Special Relationship between the US and the UK was (and is) strong. Saudi Arabia itself has suffered from Al Qaeda attacks, and they continue to work to freeze assets used to fund terror, as well as participate in counter-terrorism operations.

All I can say is former Senator Bob Graham was chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee and has read the missing 28 pages, and after leaving office has publicly said they implicate Saudi Arabia. And Zach. Moussoui, a major leader of the insurgency, has called the Saudi Princes “patrons of Al Queda”.

We’re not talking about individuals, we’re talking about the government and members of the royal family. It can be tough to let go of ideology, especially if you spent some time fighting and risking your life and possibly seeing friends die, to later realize it was all misplaced, but it’s extremely clear the source of these attacks was not Iraq or Afghanistan but Saudi Arabia. Since they are a US ally, that either implies they were double crossing their most powerful and important ally or they were working together. Either option is frightening.

CNN is not a reliable source of truthful information. If you took a military position for the US, remember ‘Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.’
-Henry Kissenger

It’s a tough pill to swallow, but the elites who run the military are nothing if not opportunistic and Machiavellian with some who are more talented than others. “Serving” in modern times means that you are nothing more than a pawn for whoever holds the purse strings. Take advantage of what you can get out of it though.

“The connection is a direct one. Not only has Saudi Arabia been promoting this extreme form of religion, but it also has been the principal financier, first of Al Qaeda, then of the various Al Qaeda franchises around the world—specifically the ones in Somalia and Yemen— and now the support of ISIS…I believe that had the role of Saudi Arabia in 9/11 been disclosed by the release of the 28 pages, and by the declassification of other information as to the Saudi role and support of the 9/11 hijackers, that it would have made it much more difficult for Saudi Arabia to have continued that pattern of behavior, and I think [we] would have had a good chance of reining in the activity that today Canada, the United States and other countries either are or are considering going to war with.”

Yup. This is one of the reasons I harp on US policy abroad. The fucking Imperial City blew up the ME and we expect smiles from these people? Hell, we wouldn’t be seeing this crazy migrant crisis if the neocons hadn’t been overturning all these secular dictatorships which got replaced with radical Islamists. It’s kind of having the complete opposite effect isn’t it? Fools.

Removing secular dictator Hussein was a mistake. Only the most brainwashed zio-zombies (which at this point pretty much boils down to you and mister five consecutive draft deferments himself, Dick Cheney) refuse to accept this. And so far as those muzzies who are murdering Christians go, Hussein (and now Assad) had these maniacal scum on a leash. Get rid of Assad (like the zionist dual-loyalist neocons want) and the local Christians are doomed. Let’s let Assad and Putin deal with these ISIS/jihadi animals however they need to and keep our noses out of it.

the US is by far the most totalitarian state when it comes to taxation, child support and debt collection. You can be hiding in a rice pot in Indo-China and these guys will still come after you for money owed.

It’ll only get worse as more people elect to evade taxes or simply skip the country for another with cheaper overhead and less red tape.

FATCA is awful. Every other country taxes corporate and personal income WHERE it is earned. Our greedy government thinks they have jurisdiction over the world – so they try to collect on earnings outside the U.S. – even if those earnings were already taxed there.

Burger King buying Tim Horton’s is a perfect example. If they had headquartered in the U.S., they would have to pay the U.S. income rate of 39% on all their earnings worldwide. By headquartering in Canada, they pay 39% on U.S. profits, 26% on Canadian profits, and whatever the local rate is everywhere else. No Brainier. And the liberals crying about “lost” revenue are liars.

Why leave? Why not secede? Form another country like the League Of The South are advocating. Man up and fight instead of run. Did the enslavement of all Americans begin under the pretext of freeing a minority of Negro slaves? ABSOLUTELY! The Civil War was about destroying the South and making the Round Headed, Puritan communists of New England the new elite; replacing the Southern aristocracy. Anyone here like Django Unchained? There is a movie under way that explains how socialist 1848 revolutionaries came to America and destroyed freedom here in the cause for Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. That is why if there is ever going to be any real change in America…

DRANGO MUST DIE!!!

Something sinister is afoot in Dixie! The year is 1859 and Forty-Eighters are roaming the South inciting slave rebellion and murdering plantation owners. Riding through the South with his slave partner Luther King, German bounty hunter/slave trader/preacher Drango seeks to destabilize the very fabric of Southern Society. Carrying the Communist Manifesto instead of the Holy Bible, Drango seeks to promulgate his new religion of Marxism with bloody social justice. Lock up your daughters and wives because Drango has come to spread his ideology with fire-brand, pistol and shot.

Georgia plantation owner Cotton Candy is out for bloody revenge! His cousins, Clay and Clara Candy, were murdered at their Mississippi plantation, gunned down in cold blood by Drango and his slave Luther. Cotton has convened a secret meeting with some of the South’s most powerful men who belong to the Knights Of The Golden Circle, whose purpose is to maintain order and expand their power and prestige. The South will rise, this slave insurrection will be quashed and Drango Must Die!!!

I’ve worked alongside Mexican immigrants over the years and some of them have saved up money and moved back to Mexico with no plans to return. The rest say in broken english they can’t wait to return home. They come from traditional, patriarchal backrounds and they hate our degenerate culture as much as any red-piller.

I used to use them on weekends as day laborers, when the economy was better and I was doing some rehab work. They almost universally had plans to return to their countries, some of them even had families back there and were just using America for its labor wages, and couldn’t wait to GTFO. Many of them make enough money for their own apartment, but choose to live 6 to a room because that lets them save more money and return home more quickly, where they can enjoy the money with their families.

I’ve met numerous latina women living in relative poverty compared to the average US living standard, and they have zero interest in coming to America. These are traditional, conservative women with religion and family values, and they view the US as utterly corrupt. I don’t think that’s a widespread view of the US worldwide yet, but the past 15 years are changing that.

One guy I worked with saved up $33,000 over 8 years before he decided to leave for good. He lived with 5 other guys in a small 2 bedroom house in the ghetto. I lost contact with him 4 years ago but he would send me pics from Mexico living like a king with a solid “9” girlfriend.

It’s hard to meet good looking traditional latinas here in the US anymore. Texas seems to be the best place to find them.

Just to clarify, the Latinas I mentioned were foreigners I met while abroad in central and south America. And I agree, all the ones I meet in the US are fat, empowered, and slutty. Texas is still an option.

Mexico used to be a huge destination for US retirees. Good, cheap medical care was available, safe, warm climate, good food, pretty women. I imagine a lot of that has changed with the cartels taking over. But then again it’s mostly a problem the further north you are, and I think most Americans were settling in the Yucatan.

Miami is more internationalized. Its considered the american gateway city by latin americans. Also lots of eurotrash think its glamorous for some reason. I heard puerto rico has big tax advantages and you only have to live there 51% of the year. The other 49% could be in Miami.

I always consider both beauty and attitude(if she’s pretty but a bitch, I wish she was ugly). Honduras, El Salvador, Colombia, Venezuela, Dominican Republic(but the girls can be boring), Argentina. I never really liked the attitudes of Brazillian girls, too ‘me first’.

People often say, “Everyone is trying to get to the USA, and not the other way around,” or something to this effect.

What they conflate is that these immigrants come for financial reasons, not cultural ones. If they felt their culture was inferior, then the would ditch it once they lived in the US. As we well know, most immigrants due not ditch their culture; instead, they cling tightly to its attributes: music, food, etc.

As more and more cultural degredation occurs in the West, we can only expect this trend to continue.

That’s about all we’ve got left. There’s no real American culture except making and spending money. Our biggest exports right now are movies. And many countries complain that the depiction of our “culture” is messing up their own societies. When foreigners come here they expect to find a hot tub in every house and leisure people. Then they wake up and want to go back home. Third world people are more realistic and come just for the money, with the knowledge that they’re not going to participate in anything else.

90% of America’s immigrants – both legal and illegal, are non-white and third world, and as far as legal immigration goes 70% are family members or spouses of US citizens, not skilled workers. Europeans and other first world nations aren’t flocking to get into the US.

I don’t blame any Americans for wanting to renounce their citizenship. Not everyone is cut out to be a freedom fighter and if they remain they will either get in the way and end up collateral damage or end up joining the enemy anyway and we will have to fight them as well when the collapse finally comes.

That being said, it’s even harder than the article writer implied and stated. A few years ago when i was on the “purple pill” i was seriously considering leaving the US because i had just about had it with all the bs here. I investigated and found that the IRS especially will make your life difficult for you, as you would have to pay off any taxes you currently owe in addition to taxes incurred in actually leaving. The bonus is, even if you gain the chance to leave, you can still be taxed wherever you end up for a while since the IRS won’t consider you an ex-citizen until its “process” is complete.

Mind you, this was all during Bush…i imagine under Obama it’s even worse.

Friggin IRS acts like the mafia…they won’t let you out unless you kiss the ring of the Godfather or pay some heavy costs indeed.

That’s what i meant by process. In order to remove EVERY “perk” that comes with being a US citizen, the IRS in conjunction with the SSA and other FED groups have to remove your name from every database that lists you as a paying contributor as well as a potential collector of retirement income (like SS, and Medicare) If you pay into a 401K, that money is now open season and you will have to pay to withdraw it and of course, pay to convert it into foreign currency as well. Shoot, there might be none left when all is said and done.

This doesn’t even speak about any money in the bank, which if you were sensible, you would have already converted into a foreign currency beforehand. (the IRS will already know this of course through bank records unless you went a “different” less than legal route.)

Will all the red tape and bureaucracy involved, expect the process to take months, possibly longer.

So yeah…you would still technically be a US citizen even while living in the bahamas, for example. Depending on the area it’s much easier to start paying into the tax system than it would be to stop paying into it, so you could theoretically end up paying taxes to the government of the country you find yourself in while still paying off whatever final taxation the US government demands…EXCUSE ME…expects of you.

And if you can afford to live comfortably in the Bahamas…i feel sorry for you. If they determine you are wealthy expect to pay more taxes, fees, fines than you normally would.

I’m not an IRS lawyer so i don’t know how exactly they would treat SS income. I didn’t get that far and even if i did it would have gotten worse under obama so this next part is just speculation.

I believe all the monies which would normally be allocated to your retirement may now be taxable since they are not actually going to your retirement (where they would otherwise be nontaxable) but would go to you as part of your resettlement elsewhere.

So let’s say you’ve got $100,000 in Medicare payments saved up (it’s not a lot but i’m speaking hypothetically here) and you decided to expatriate. Now the IRS has to decide what to do with that 100K which of course they will not let you have without some strings attached.

My educated guess is that they would tax the hell out of it, which means they are taxing you on money you saved up that was already taxed in the first place. Nice huh? Whatever was left after all the taxes (and i mean ALL the taxes) were paid would be yours but now you have to pay taxes to convert it into the foreign currency of your choice, not to mention the additional banking fees and extra if the dollar is worth less than the currency amount you want to convert it to. JOY!

Fact: I once sent money to my family in Colombia and i had to pay extra for the amount i wanted them to have (since the dollar was worth shit even back then) not to mention the international currency tax as well as the bank’s fees. Put it this way: it wasn’t cheap.

The other thing that could happen is the IRS holding that money for you until you reach retirement age. I sincerely doubt this would happen though, especially since they can be taken to court for withholding money from you which you earned.

On a related note: there’s also the fact that your money tends to depreciate thanks to a variety of factors beyond your control. If you happen to convert your money on a day when the dollar is worth less while expatriating (before, during or after) well now you will get less foreign currency for your buck, meaning you could be losing cents on every dollar you convert to a foreign currency that uses a standard worth more than the US dollar.

And now for the icing on the cake: Now that the ACA aka Obamacare has gone into full effect, guess what?

You now owe the IRS all the money that you would have to pay into the ACA system in order to keep it solvent so that the really poor folk, the ones who are dirt poor and don’t have two nickels to rub together, can ostensibly have health insurance. If you’re one of them you are good (for the most part) but then again if you are that poor you don’t have enough money to move with and expatriate, do you?

So anyway if you put in your expatriation paperwork in, and you spend let’s say a year in the process of severing all fiscal ties with the US, you still owe them every last cent up until the second that your expatriation process was finalized and you were finally free from all financial obligations that come with being a US citizen.

Since the total cost of Obamacare is divided between all those Americans who meet all the fiscal requirement standards, you would have to pay your “fair” portion, and likely all at once. Let’s say hypothetically that your share would be $10K as the cost of paying into Obamacare.
You probably have to pay that up front before your expatriation process was completed otherwise you might have to wait.

They might work out a payment plan with you but that means you’re paying off a big debt while paying off the costs of living at whatever new place you decide to settle in, not to mention the new income taxes you would have to end up paying in the area you settled in which hopefully, won’t start being collected until you’ve got at least a year into residency. In the meantime you weren’t technically expatriated in the eyes of US law because you still have that debt to pay off, and now you have to pay off additional accrued debt as part of your fair share to pay off Obamacare as a US citizen. Don’t think for a moment they would allow you to expatriate BEFORE you paid that off…they’re not stupid. It would cost more for the FED to use international courts to sue you than it would to simply withhold your expatriation requests which, depending on the area you move to, could affect your chance to become a citizen of that region because of a likely denial of dual citizenship.

The IRS can’t forcibly stop you from moving of course…they can just control your status in the world until you play by their rules to the fullest.

This is why i think they wouldn’t offer you a payment plan so you could pay it off later, they would just expect you to pay that Obamacare cost (just) before your expatriation request was finalized. Which means forking over yet more money (10K in my example) before you were finally free from the robber baron we call Uncle Scam.

All renunciation requires expatriation but not all expatriation requires renunciation. I blended the definitions when i went on the tangent about renunciation. Everything else is factual wherever specified, however.

I think if you are guest worker in the US, your country of origin doesnt tax you. If I went overseas, I would get taxed by the host country and the US (I read a bit on this years ago, so I might be talking out of my poopshoot)

That’s correct, although often if you’re working in a lower wage country (not Europe or Australia) you won’t owe anything to the US because you don’t make enough. You also get a credit for foreign taxes paid I believe.

That’s just it…the IRS would come after you for your yearly payments if you keep US citizenship. You can’t be a citizen and NOT pay taxes to the US government even if you don’t live in the US. Most people who want to leave behind the US want to leave because of a variety of reasons, the increasingly high taxation being one of the larger ones.

For a local and related example, look at what’s happened with heavily prog States like NY and California. People (especially the wealthy) have fled in droves because of the increasingly high taxation rates. Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and i think Sean Hannity are just a few names that have left or are leaving because of the massive taxation rates they face because of their wealth. Wealthy progs have left too i just can’t think of any at the moment.

No matter where they ended up in (Texas with Beck and i think Florida with Limbaugh) they still have to pay taxes of course, but the taxes are still higher than what they would be in less fiscally confiscatory times.

The IRS is really like the mafia. It was never meant to hold this kind of power. It shouldn’t even exist. We have that piece of shit prog Taft and prog Wilson to thank for it, which they helped create thanks to that damn 16th amendment which shouldn’t even exist either because it’s a contradiction to what the Constitution had already spoken of regarding equal apportion of taxes among the states based on legitimate factors.

I agree man – I used to entertain a few notions of going elsewhere, but I had 2 main problems with it.

#1: There’s nowhere better to be honest. Europe is worse off than we are, and I’m sorry but as someone who has lived in Asia for over a year and Africa for a year and many places abroad for significant periods of time from Turkey to Romania – those places are not better. They aren’t paradises, and the women are easier in the sense you will find a decent wife quicker, but it’s not a walk in the park. Other governments tend to be more corrupt than the US government. Try living for 6 months in Brazil and you’ll see why many Brazilians are looking forward to a military coup. If you go somewhere else you may be leaving America for an even more corrupt and heavy handed government. And as far as morals go, places like Japan with their freakshow porn and Thailand with their toleration of prostitution and horrific sexual deviancy are worse than the US.

#2: It’s just plain cowardly. The American Spirit was born out of the Viking/Anglo ethos of Britannia and Northern Europe, and is also infused with the martial loyalty of Southern Europe which led many an Army to conquer the known world. A true American can’t just up and leave without a fight. Abandoning the US and watching the “Happening” from abroad just isn’t an option if you have balls.

#1 I like the climate in central and south America. I haven’t spent enough time investigating countries but in general the governments seem smaller than the US and therefore less able to fuck with you. Costa Rica in particular is quite benevolent and home to lots of Americans. Many of these countries do suck when it comes to taxing imports of just about everything, where in the US we have tons of cheap shit from China.

#2 America was founded by “cowards” who fled their country to get away from the oppression to seek a better life abroad.

Spicy – are you fucking serious man? My wife is Brazilian, and I’ve spent a lot of time in South America so you can trust me that the governments which “seem smaller” through your PC monitor are not. You’re talking about the continent with Venezuela and Argentina. Do you know anything about their governments? Do you know anything about how massive the Brazilian bureaucracy is, or the cost of an iPhone in Sao Paulo because of cronyism and tariffs? Did you know that this is the case, even though China and Brazil are both part of the BRICS pact? The US isn’t even privy to BRICS and manages cheaper imports from each country involved in it, including Russia and China. You practically need to bribe an official for the privilege to wipe your ass in many South American countries. Chile functions similarly to the US or a European country, but that’s after years of death camps for Marxists run by the Pinochet regime (which I adore btw, not knocking the Big P). And even then, it’s still to the left of the US.

Costa Rica is not benevolent, and the place with Americans is a QUAKER community. And you talk about cowards?

Brazil, Argentina and other South American countries are full of betas who elect female presidents, who in turn rig elections. Do you want Hillary for President but can’t wait until 2016? Move to Argentina or a bunch of other South American nations.

One more thing, how can you like the climate in South and Central America? It’s extremely varied, just like North America. Many Brazilians would say Florida is way too hot. Cortiba sees a decent amount of snowfall each year, and other places get tons of it every winter. It’s not all jungle and palm trees, and the areas that are also have problems with malaria and shit. It’s hard to say you “prefer” it too, when the US has places like that (minus the yellow fever) including Miami, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, Guam, etc.

Never been to Venezuela or Argentina. There are large oppressive nations on every continent, and South America is no exception, so I will accept the word of others who have been. Specifically import taxes, as mentioned, are one of the worst things about that region. But I seriously doubt any government down there could rival the size and scope of Uncle Sam. If one comes close, obviously it would not be on my short list.

As for malaria, I’ve traveled extensively throughout the world, and the only time a vaccine was needed was visiting Africa. I’m not saying malaria doesn’t exist in central / S.A., only that it is certainly rare and limited, as I have visited a handful of countries and it was never even mentioned as a possible risk.

I’ve visited Costa Rica several times, and found it extremely benevolent. When I asked their version of the TSA a question about my electronic equipment when they wanted to scan my backpack on an x-ray belt, they just waved me through and said I could bypass the screening. I’ve had local police smile and say something polite to me as I walked by them in their village. Not holding my breath for any of that to ever happen back in the USA. I attended a party for the grandchild of a sitting president, and there were no thugs or goons there. It was literally the definition of benevolence. Finally, if one wishes to call people who left their oppressive society in order to build a life for themselves from scratch (the way the founding fathers did) cowards, then I simply have a strong disagreement on what it means to be brave and strong.

I can’t afford to live in Miami, California, Hawaii or Guam. Puerto Rico is full of crime. I already live in the SE USA which has one of the more moderate climates in America but the summers here are humid and horrible, and the winters are still cold and uncomfortable. I’ve spent a month at the Equator in Ecuador and was shocked that it wasn’t any worse than what I’m used to. I love the climate of central America. Pleasantly warm, but not too hot. Not humid and stagnant, and there are typically mountains within an hour or two that allow one to visit cool climates. Most of my experiences are from the equator and northward. The climate further south, I imagine would be very similar to that of North America, only with opposite seasons.
Perhaps you care for none of this, and I say, to each his own. For some reason Siberia was settled, and every year people are born there and choose to stay. I don’t claim to have all answers for all people, only can speak to my experiences. I will say that Southern Mexico (Yucatan) and Costa Rica (Cuwetto) have very large American communities, so there are significant numbers of others for whom this also appeals to.

I’ve lived in Argentina and half my family is from there and lives there. You are right about the government not being as “big” in their size and scope as in the U.S. It is a lot easier to do things like, doing business under the table and not paying taxes. They don’t have the money to send their version of the IRS to audit you. You can drive 100 mph on the highway and not get pulled over. If the cops catch you with drugs you can bribe your way out of it. Cops barely make any money so they don’t give a shit.

It’s essentially picking your poison. As a young guy there are numerous reasons to get out and the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages provided you have the means and skills to do it. Your priorities are probably a safe place to raise a family and make money. If that’s the case, then US is great with one major caveat: you’ll have to manage your wife extremely efficiently in a hostile environment. Raising kids in the US? Forget it. There are far better cultures out there that haven’t been completely overrun by narcissism. As far safety, corruption, etc. All true, but if you’re making bank in the US, your dollars can easily buy your way out of the minor nuisances having to do with 3rd world government bureaucracy. Foreign wives tend to really like the US also due to the fact they feel very safe and there is a lot of money and shopping opportunities. On the whole though, it’s true, you pick your poison and the types of problems you want to deal with.

Also, the now being a coward sounds more like you’re promoting white knighting. There are times to fold in every hand.

Great post. Rokwing has made his choice as well do (“Picked his poison”) and instead of being a man and doing it quietly he had to mudsling at those who choose differently than he did. Anyone who chooses differently than him is a ‘coward’. Wow that helped him feel more secure about his choice, I guess! Talk about cowardly. Talk about projection.

“There are times to fold in every hand”

Exactly. Being a beast of burden for your enemies is as cowardly as it gets imo. If you can set your life up in the USA where you do not feel that that is what you are, then fine. But a lot of the “Man-Up” crowd is simply that. It’s the pseudo-heroism, chivalry, and outdated definitions of masculinity that became a weak point and were easily exploited by the identity collectives; feminists, gays, blacks, Latinos.

Rokwing – thanks for stating what i was going to state, and so you saved me the hassle of writing it all down. People who over romanticize about it being better in other countries dont get out much. I’m an expat but hold a US passport. It really does not make sense to renounce. The only annoyance is the double taxation but a foreign earned income tax is structured much lower because you are already being taxed by the country of which you reside.

And as for reason #2 I think when all is said and done and the shit hits the fan and after the apocolypse is over, the USA will still be in the better standing.

The “grass is greener” effect seems to be too strong among the alt-right and manosphere. Yet, 100% of these people telling you and I that we’re wrong and that the grass really is greener are keyboard jockeys who will only see a beach in Brazil through some screenshots online. They use the idea of leaving America for greener pastures as a mental crutch to deal with their crushing failure to eek out a decent living in the US or Europe.

You need to also consider the trends. Is the US getting better or worse over time. While for some people, it might be good now, it might not be so good in even 3 years. Depends on what your occupation is, and what you want out of life.

Having spent the last 11 years outside the US (Asia, not Brazil), I can assure you that the grass is greener.
I realize it afresh every time I step off the plane in the US.
Edit : Unless your definition of greener grass only consists of some nebulous concept of government ‘size’.

I disagree. I lived in Korea for over a year and spent some time elsewhere, such as Japan, and it wasn’t for me at all. I find most Asian countries pretty dirty, their streets smelly, their air filthy and their culture inconsistent. Not too keen on all the flat asses and A cups either. Many countries have some great food, but the bulk of their cuisine is just far from my tastes, and I’m not content or healthy on that 95% carb diet many of them eat. If you love Asia though and find it better than the US, all the power to you, I’m glad you found somewhere that makes you happy.

I’ll grant that Korea is not the best Asia has to offer – I only visited for a week or so, and was glad to see the end of the trip. And if you didn’t like Japan, then Asia probably is not for you.
Anyways, cool that you gave it a try. No need to separate from family and friends without some strong benefit.

Agreed. I know of NO ONE who has experience with Australia who says it’s better than the US on any level. From what i read and hear it’s far worse SJW wise, and near a living hell with regards to feminism.

Yeah. Nothing like the wide aisles in the supermarkets, safe driving, organization and COMPETENCE in the USA. I love a lot of things but then the sexual frustration and general shit from the women kicks in after a few months and it’s passport time again.

I know guys would say ‘learn game’ etc. but I don’t really want to rewire my whole psyche and jump through countless hoops just to land some 36 year old, 160 pounder (if I’m lucky) who just lives in a faint cloud of ice-cream farts and the cum of a 100 other men. I don’t think guys really know what’s available overseas once you realize ‘morals’ are just centuries old tools of the feminine imperative.

Nothing cowardly about wanting to have the best life you can in your brief 80 years (if you’re lucky to live that long). The American spirit is “Fuck it then. I’m leaving. Fuck you all.” That should be the American motto.

So clinging to your huge government and suburban life in Eden Prairie Minnesota is gutsy. Starting a new life in Southern Brazil is for cowards. Okay, then.

So you think Southern Brazil doesn’t have a huge government and is less degenerate? What you want to do is fill out forms to go spend about 6 months in Cortiba. When you’re done tell me that it’s better than Minnesota (and tell me why half of Cortiba’s citizens are in line to immigrate to Massachusetts when slots become available).

Have you ever been there? I’ve lived in Brazil for two and a half years. I’m not talking out of my ass like a lot of people do when the topic of overseas life comes up. Are you going to double down and do some “Mall of America versus a Curitiba street market” smack talk?

There are upsides and downsides to both places. If you want comfort, immobility, a 190 pound woman and the joy of knowing that the country is free to degenerate all it wants due to your overwork, then stay in Minnesota. If you want discomfort, annoyance, much more likely death, freedom, mobility and a 19 year old smokeshow of a girlfriend then go to Brazil.

I think small town Brazil is far less degenerate though far more annoying and incompetent.

Yes I have and even married a 21 year old Brazilian woman, and regularly go there. You don’t need to go live in Curitiba or Rio to get a hot girlfriend, and the Brazilian obesity rate isn’t drastically lower than the US one when you account for poverty. Were you in Brazil for the World Cup last year? They had to build 4750 extra-wide seats to accompany Brazilian’s growing waistlines. (On a side note, if you want a ton of hot slim girls, Turkey is actually the best bet).

I think small town Brazil is ok. Small town America is nice too. I don’t think it’s any more or less degenerate though. My wife and I decided to stay in the US, specifically in Boston and NYC not only for career reasons but because they’re significantly better to live in. Brazil is a great place to go for a vacation but its economy is an atrocity and there’s just as many fags and feminists down there as there is here. You also cannot compare small town Brazil to big city America.

I always told my friends when I was in Brazil that if I married one, I would head back home. I would never want to put up with Brazil unless it was to have access to 10-30 women a year. If I married I would get back to the USA, Idaho, Montana, Washington, almost immediately. I would hate to live in Rio as a married man, gradully tiring of my wife while teenage ass is walking around in my face every time I went to the beach. That’s hell. But as a single man, Brazil would be great…again.

The false dichotomy of choosing to stay (bravery) vs leaving (cowardice). Frame it how you wish and that becomes the window from which you eventually see yourself as an unwilling slave chained to a sinking ship.

#1 Since we use the red pill metaphor, I say enlightened men can become like Neo in the Matrix and make it to conform to our will, needs and desires. Even in the middle of some of the shitties locales on earth, there are mansion of the rich and powerful. I don’t care if favellas of Rio are pure hell. I can carve out a niche there that suits me if that is my desire and my will. Besides, many areas here in the land of opportunity are quickly decaying into the same, if not worse, than these other areas of the world you chide.

Favellas are urban also. The worst in Rio, Sao Paulo. There are plenty of mellow, small towns in Brazil that are decent. Getting an income and boredom would be the two main concerns, not drug violence.

If you think other lands have more oppertunity then be my guest. Don’t spend your time responding to me, go fill out visa forms. What’s holding you back? Unlike you have I already made my fortune, traveled the world and lived abroad and even served in the military. Go carve out that niche in a Sao Paulo favella lmao – Seriously I will send you $10,000 if you can manage to live in one for 3 months and survive. It’s like the worst ghetto in the US amped up to 10, with 10 times the violence. Regularly tourists are riddled with bullets in their rental cars just because they listened to their GPS and tried to cut through a favella. If they can’t get through one to save 15 minutes what makes you think you can carve out a niche living in one? Clown.

Like yourself, I’ve made my fortune, traveled enough of the world and have business in several countries at present. I just think your simple-minded evaluation of either/or is kindergarten level at best.

I’ve been retired for over a decade at the early age of 37. I served in the military as well. Why mention it? Frankly there’s more problem with Vet privilege than white privilege. BFD.

Be careful when you assume….. You should know the rest.

What am I waiting for? Nothing mutha fucka. I can travel the world at a moment’s notice in my 17L pack. I find it more iimportant at this stage in my life to take care of my ailing mother than to travel full-time. But, if I could convince her I’d move her back to Colombia and live the good life for a whole lot less. That’s right, I’m Colombian asshole. Well done with your assumptions. But I’m also a US citizen and grew up here. I haven’t been to Rio personally, but I’ve been to areas of Colombia that I’m sure rival the favelas.

So, I posted a reply to those who may read these posts (although most seem to respond out of theory and ignorance than experience) to know that a man can make his own reality in many places in the world. If it doesn’t work for you, fine. But it works for me and many other men who are beyond sucking Uncle Sam’s dick just because he keeps telling us to.

For anyone reading this, be assured that the first benefit of moving anywhere than the US is being reducing your tax liability significantly. You want to run your own businesses as I do, you owe it to yourself to live, work and make money offshore.

So, rather than following the brainwashed sheeple and Rokwing’s analysis, go find out for yourself. Sure, if you’re born and raised in the US of A you may have challenges living in another cultures. But it’s very doable. Every man owes it to hiimself to discover FOR HIMSELF what works and what doesn’t.

Disagree. The wealthy have formed our society and economy to suit their own ends. It’s a mindless consumer society with nothing to offer humans beings. Back in the 1990’s it came out that the wealthiest Americans were renouncing the citizenships for tax and life style reasons. So this country is just THEIR plantation with mindless worker drones filling their pockets. As an aside, getting rich, in the real sense, in this country is as likely as hitting the lottery. You can start a business and live middle-class, but you’ll be working it you’re whole life and then leaving nothing for your children. Right now our economy and society is geared to make money for the already-to-rich. Notice that no matter how much money you make, it’s quickly sucked out and up the food chain. Alright. . . I don’t care about getting rich. But what bothers the fuck out of me is that everyone you meet is on the conveyor belt trying to get ahead, and their personalities suck because of it. The problems we have with women in our country can be summed up in that.

The genious of Nietzche is that he predicted these days will come when people stop being normal human beings and existing only for careers and status. And then it was echoed by 20th century philosophers who coined “the machine.” That’s all we’ve got right now. Money knows no cultural or national bounderies right now. But there’s no reason you have live as it’s slave.

I disagree with that assessment. The wealthiest Americans are still Americans, very few have ever renounced their citizenship, and multiple millionaires become American citizens every year, especially ones from Europe. The US for all its problems is not a plantation, you’re severely overdramatizing things. I am quite wealthy and I find time to do plenty of things. I am also not concerned with leaving anything for my children besides knowledge and faith and morals. They can join the military like I did or go to community college if need be. I’ll pay for their college, but only because I can, not because I feel obligated to or anything. Everyone all over the world is trying to get ahead, that’s human nature. The thing is, leftism has convinced many that the wrong things will get them ahead and make them happy. I find too often that those who rail against being a “slave” to money are lazy and amount to economic failures. They’re prone to vote for guys like Bernie Sanders and shit.

They’re actually not even necessary. It’s a form of social control at the federal level and nothing else. The government takes anything it wants whenever it wants. “Have you ever heard of a government pay back it’s debt in the history of the world? (M.Armstrong).” Have you ever known a government to not inflate it’s currency whenever it so chooses? Fact is, governments print and borrow as much money they want with impunity and without consequence. There is no reason for a federal income tax to exist anymore since it is no longer attached or backed by anything material. All the funding necessary can simply be printed as is already the case anyway. State taxes are different however.

Going to war for this country is blue-pill. Are you really going to risk your safety to protect the SJWs? No one appreciates us anymore. Look at the female comments railing against the perfectly reasonable demands of men. Would you really white-knight when SHTF?

The movies are trash, really. I bet Ayn would be quite disappointed. Not that the opinion of a bitch matters, but you get my point. The movies are quite conventional and boring. Also, the actors are very average.

I think this is more ado about nothing. Most are renouncing their citizenship not for high moral grounds but for tax reasons. They are essentially tired of getting double taxed in a country, the USA, which they only visit on occasion and most likely only have citizenship to because they were born here.

Unless you have a right to citizenship through ancestry in Poland, Israel, Italy, or Ireland it is pretty difficult to become a citizen of another country. That is unless you want to move there and live there for 20+ years and take a native wife. If you are really rich there are a few countries that will “sell” you citizenship. But, other then this, if you do not hold dual citizenship already and are an American you are basically stuck with just that.

It’s worth considering foreign residency or a second citizenship (a lot of places make it pretty easy) as part of an overall strategy to protect your interests. Renunciation seems like a drastic step though, but maybe it’s logical if you’re rich enough. Most people are probably too broke for it to be a concern.

If you’re going to leave the U.S., start planning now. I’d say it’s five-year process. Study the nations of the world. Pick a country that appeals to you, one with which you are racially compatible. Visit this country as much as possible. Master its language. Study its customs, history, and geography. Get to know some people there and start establishing ties. Build friendships. Make contacts. Evaluate the economy of this country and figure out how you’re going to contribute. This may involve acquiring new job skills. Meanwhile, minimize your belongings. Sell everything you can, so the actual move will be as streamlined as possible. Also, familiarize yourself with this country’s currency and banking institutions. When the exchange rate is ripe, make a sizeable conversion. Work at all of these things. Eventually, the iron will be hot and it’ll be time to strike. Make the leap. Move there. Then put yourself on the path to citizenship. Be sure to change/alter your name to match your new language. Once you’re settled, understand that you’re not an American anymore. This mental shift is probably extremely difficult. But the fact is, you owe your new country your total allegiance- linguistically, culturally, militarily, etc. Forget about the U.S. to the extent that you can. Do everything you can to assimilate. Above all, don’t be a fucktard. You’re not a sex tourist. You’re a immigrant who’s trying to make better life for himself. If you must have a woman, find a respectable one from a good family. Marry her and establish a family. Be productive. Live with honor.

I’ve been mentally prepared for years. If one removes the cultural normative bias that one has by being an American, it is shocking how easier it is to criticize the actions of the American government. They get away with so much just because the masses don’t want to feel that they are going against their country and government. But if you mentally separate yourself from them now (come on, do any of us really feel like we are a part of that culture?) it is like seeing with corrective lenses for the first time.

Lucky for me, I consider myself more Mexican than American, even though I am an American citizen. I speak Spanish like a local and know the customs. For me, Mexico is a no brainer, unless I want to risk it, so it’s,Colombia, Argentina, Chile, or Brazil, but for the latter, I would have to take a crash course in Portuguese, which, since it’s related to Spanish, shouldn’t be too difficult.

My family is from Argentina. The economic situation has been pretty bad, but they just elected a new, more conservative president who is taking office in December. Maybe things will start to get better economically.

And i dont know of any nation that is worth it to jump through all the hoops. And simply stating “I’m an american and want to be a citizen of your country” is not good enough. You will either have to have a fuck load of dough to buy your way into the country or have a job lined up.

Renouncing US citzenship is for billionires only. This article is way off base. It is not very easy to get citizenship elsewhere at all for the average Joe. And anyone thinking of immigrating to europe is an idiot. Look, I know america, as a country, is sucking ass lately, but a US passport still has its advantages. And the one thing the author did get right is that the authorities will make your life a living hell.

Your statement is false and you would know that if you lived abroad. The only thing that makes America excecptional at this point is that the means to change is still in the power of the people via the 2nd Amendment. There are 300 million privately owned firearms in the hands of US citizens and the socialists powers are well aware of that.

“US citzenship is for billionires only.”
I checked my bank account. So you are false.
Do you have a skill set in demand? Yeah. I’m an average Joe and picked up a temp job years ago and got sponsered by my employer to obtain a one year green card. As long as you pay taxes and do not get arrested, they will eventually offer you a permanent green card or offer you citizenship (which I have declined). Varies by country.

Easily? Go to the third world. An African county if you like. Thailand. PI.
If you still want the creature comforts in 1st world, then you better have sponsership with marketable skills or marry a national. Nothing is “easy”– so you might want to bone up on a needed trade.

The countries you mentioned are shithole countries, i asked if you could name a few countries that are not shithole countries that are one can easily acquire citizenship. Im sure I speak for the majority of the men here when I say most of us do not consider renouncing US citizenship for these places.

Then you say that 1st world requires sponsorships or marrying a national or $$$$$; reiterating my position on this issue.

Try reading further up and read my original request:
“Name countries that it is easy to acquire citizenship that is a) not a shithole country and b) does not require a fuck load of money to buy one’s way in.”

Eh, I didn’t see the article as advocating anything about renouncing, just point out that it is a sign of a changing and worsening climate in America, and that it’s mostly the rich doing it, but it’s representative of lots of others in the middle class who have left but never reported anything on a form or turned in their passport.

“Eh, I didn’t see the article as advocating anything about renouncing, just point out that it is a sign of a changing and worsening climate in America”

I hear ya, but such an article usually kick starts conversations on how easy it is to find another country and renounce U.S. citzenship etc. Lately there seems to be a lot of kids in here speaking as if they know what they are talking about, but are simply mentally masturbating based on misinformation that they find on the internet.

Assuming you can get a work permit, you can immigrate to an EU country on a work visa (if you have any form of qualifications it shouldn’t be *that* hard to get a work permit). For example in Sweden, after being a resident for 5 years you can then apply for Swedish citizenship.

Once you have an EU citizenship you’re then eligible to live and work anywhere in the EU without much difficulty.

Of course that means you would have to live in Sweden for 5 years, which might not qualify as being “easy” (at least for your sanity).

“Of course that means you would have to live in Sweden for 5 years, which might not qualify as being “easy” (at least for your sanity)”

Sweden, is the Saudia Arabia of feminism. The whole idea of renunciating US citizenship is to go to a BETTER country. And the whole of EU is done! It will soon be over run by criminally insane muzzie extremists.

Same thing going on in sweden. People here are moving to australia, argentina and some european nations that are still tolerable, i dont blame them for leaving, and i understand why they leave wholeheartedly, but i can not deny at same time i get a strong sense of dishonor when i think about the act of abandoning your fatherland.

These politicians and journalists are fanatic about their global socialist ideology, that destroys everything that is sacred, lets not make it to easy for them by abandoning the ship as soon as the going gets rough.

I admit I envy those with strong cultural roots to their country, where a millennium-rich history precedes them.

I feel utterly displaced in Australia, although I was born here I feel disconnected from everything. My father was born in England, I lived in Europe for a couple of years, but even upon my first visit, there was an immediate connection to that part of the world.

A reliable source of ONLINE income seems to be “the ticket”. All other forms of income are unsuitable for permanently leaving USSA. Even with an oil job with months off etc…. eventually you have to come back to work some more.

Another option, if you can somehow come up with the money, is to invest a LARGE amount of cash ($500k or more) and then live off the interest. Survival in third-world seems doable even with as little as ~$2000/month passive income.

Seems you need a “truly” passive income to achieve freedom from USSA. Most jobs including oil sands have their limitations.

Our government doesn’t have a “Citizen, what can we do for you?” attitude. Its more like “We own you and we’ll be damned if we don’t squeeze you as hard as possible for what we want”. You see this especially in the most populous cities and states. Now if you go on a website to date foreign women, you are legally supposed to fill out a form disclosing marital status and if you’ve ever been arrested(note arrested not convicted) of assault or drunk driving etc, because its more important to protect random foreign women than to protect Americans or protect their privacy. Naturally the foreign woman has no disclosure requirement put on her at all.

I’ve been back in America from Korea for 7 weeks now. I’m living in my parents basement. Im working and have rock bottom low costs and I’ve come to this conclusion:

Fuck this place. I need insurance or licensing to do any job out there, the government takes $0.30 of every dollar and spends $0.45. I’m living in my parents basement yo! This is fucked! I need to pay taxes, food, housing, and for a car, but I can only afford 3 of those 4.

I dont want to make excuses for myself, but everything here is messed. I have a fat stack of cash in the bank, but if I werent with my parents I would have burned through half of it getting a car and insurance, rent and other expenses before I would right the ship and live paycheck to paycheck.

It’s true. You don’t realise how ridiculous our tax rates really are until you live and work in other countries. What do we get for it really? Healthcare? Nope, I’m going to be uninsured when I get home. Education? Nope we pay the highest tuition rates in the world. Infrastructure? Nope, haven’t really invested in anything since the interstate system after WWII, and have been actively dismantling public transportation since.

I was living in Asia for about 3 years ( I was in Korea for a short time as well) and managed to save a fat stack of cash too. Right now im living in latin america, making the equivalent of about $15,000 american, and still manage to sack away about a third of that. If I lived the same lifestyle in the US as i do here, making say 50-60 grand, I would probably be left with a $0 balance at the end of the month, or perhaps even negative.

bingo. there’s something psychologically satisfying, especially as a man, about earning less and keeping more. my brother makes six figures, what we put away at the end of the month was the same, but he’s still early in his career, and he will rocket ahead later

Most expats I have met tend to be men who married foreign nationals and have obtained a “green card” to live and work and earn between 50-120k a year. Keep in mind they are paying local taxes and have higher living costs in most places, so net is probably 50%. The FACTA penalties are huge and will wipe out everything you worked for leaving you destitute. A few years ago, the IRS had an amnesty for expats to declare under the assumption they would not be heavily fined. No, the fined them anyway (They fucked up. They trusted Obama’s IRS). That is what is driving the US citizenship renunciations. I mentioned in an earlier post how many hoops you have to jump through to renounce, however most expats are simply laying low.

The fact that the US has close to $100 trillion of unfunded liabilities, imports millions of illegal immigrants, an increasingly corrupt government, abdicated it’s foreign obligations to proxies, constant social degradation (driven by the race hustlers, feminists, pigressives, etc..) and a slew of other reasons mentioned at ROK…. the Republic of my birth is dead. If there is a return or open insurrection, I would gladly participate, but that probably will not happen in my life time. So I make due like everyone else.

Yeah. I never understood how JFK’s great quote doesn’t make a rightwingers vomit. I think all the heroism of WW2 turned America into bunch of flag-wavers. America was supposed to be the anti-country country. Individuals. Even the far right gladly takes propaganda up their ass.

I wasn’t alive then, and can’t speak to what “your country” meant. Today hearing that phrase makes me think of an oppressive fascist state. But I am totally fine with the idea of helping out society, helping my neighbor, helping to build a local library or doing some light maintenance for an elderly person, looking to give rather than to reap. In a healthy society that is. My attitude today is take as much money as I can from this corrupt society, take some of the slutty poosy that is so freely offered, and one day GTFO.

America taxes on a citizenship basis. Canada taxes based on domicile. However, they don’t make it easy. I consider myself an ex-pat but I think I might be in for a fight with CRA when they want to lay claim to a third of what I earn here in China.

If I had the cash, I’d move. I’d still visit western nations, but I don’t really see myself wanting to come back to America.

And I’m a veteran.

I like what this country is supposed to be but the reality doesn’t fit the narrative. Example…. Children are our most precious resource , but our education is garbage and child crime offenders do not get the highest punishments.

Let’s see … ~1300 Americans renounced their citizenship last year, meanwhile, 500,000 were sworn in as American citizens. American citizenship remains one of the most highly desired nationalities in the world.

I know this article is a little old, but I thought I should throw this on the table for the ROK readership (although I know some of you are already expats / non-US):

There is a difference between having a residency and citizenship. Residency means you have the legal right to live in a country, and being a citizen means you have a passport to that country.

Getting residency in other countries is less difficult often than buying a passport via Cyprus or some such. If you maintain your residency, you may be able to apply for to be a citizen, but it would behoove you to learn the requirements for citizenship (some countries don’t allow you to be a dual-citizen). The US allows second citizenships if the other country does, and also allows you to deduct your income abroad (up to a certain amount) if you spend 330 days outside the US.

I”ve staked out Ecuador, although I still want to look at Iceland and visit Paris before I go. When I had to get fingerprinted and my SS# checked back 25 years to get a bank account, and then watched illegals with no English and no papers get home loans thrown at them, I knew it was time to go. Ecuardorean women from Spanish descent are beautiful and they have Old World values. Hell, it’s a point of pride that they live like they did in Colonial Days. It’s accepted that you have a mistress on the side, and my money will talk for me.

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