January 20, 2013

Ravens Will Meet 49ers in Super Bowl 0x2F: The Baltimore Ravens and San Francisco 49ers won the conference championship games Sunday and will meet in the Super Bowl. Ravens coach John Harbaugh and 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh, brothers born 14 months apart, will face each other after knocking off the New England Patriots and Atlanta Falcons on the road.

So how far will E!SPN and the rest of the sports media beat the "brothers coaching against each other in the Super Bowl" thing into the ground? I predict they will reach the Earth's molten core by Thursday.

So how far will E!SPN and the rest of the sports media beat the "brothers coaching against each other in the Super Bowl" thing into the ground? I predict they will reach the Earth's molten core by Thursday.

Over/under on number of times that the fact they sprang from the same set of loins (though possibly not exactly in the same phrasing) is mentioned on the telecast: 283. WHO YA GOT?

I don't, Mr B. Remember that this is also going to be Ray Lewis' final game. I'm sure all of the stories granting sainthood upon him will eat into some of the sibling rivalry stories. Remember the "Jerome Bettis is from Detroit" Super Bowl from a few years back? I'm taking the under.

Even though the Ravens did get to play a home game to start off with, their run to the SB reminds me a bit of the run that Cowher's last Steelers team put on as a wild card, winning big time road games and staying in their road whites for the SB.

Flacco is now the career leader in road playoff wins among QB's. He's going to get a nice contract from somebody.

Without a strong rooting interest, the storyline I was hoping to see was another Super Bowl championship for Brady and the Hoodie. The run of excellence New England is on reminds me of the Dallas Cowboys under Tom Landry in the '70s and '80s.

I have no problem with anyone who humbly follows in their faith and backs it up with good actions:

Matthew 6
"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."

So basically there's nothing he could ever do, right? I am completely ambivalent about Ray Lewis, but I don't know that cherry-picking facts tells us much about him. How old is the youngest of those 6 kids? I have a feeling some of that was a long time ago given one of kids is playing in college now. Can you really say you know what it was like to grow up as Ray Lewis did? I can't.

Yes, I intentionally used "uppity" there (it's definitely a dog whistle). I did it because complaining about how many kids he has by how many women makes it a little difficult to not view your entire issue with Ray Lewis -- which expands every time you're called on it -- through a racial lens.

Do I get sick of the "Jesus let me catch that ball" bloviating? Constantly. But I just roll my eyes; I don't set myself up as the arbiter of which people deserve to call themselves Christians.

What punishment or penance would you consider sufficient before he can speak of his faith again?

He's never revealed what he did wrong, who murdered those two men and why he got rid of his bloody clothing from that night. There's no basis to forgive and accept the redemption of someone who won't say exactly what he did.

No one has been convicted of those murders. Lewis broke the promise he made before his last Super Bowl trip to meet with the families of the two men, despite his promise being relayed by announcers Phil Simms and Greg Gumbel during the game broadcast.

Given all that, I have trouble believing in his professed Christianity and won't be tuning in to any talk about what an excellent fellow he's become.

I did it because complaining about how many kids he has by how many women makes it a little difficult to not view your entire issue with Ray Lewis -- which expands every time you're called on it -- through a racial lens.

Give Ray some credit. He's given racially tolerant people a pretty damn good reason to hate him.

And his kids didn't come up until we were debating his professed Christianity. Having six children out of wedlock with four women and not raising any of them in his own home does not suggested he's much of a Christian.

According to his lawyer, at least, Lewis doesn't know who killed them. He testified that he never saw a knife. He certainly helped cover it up, but he admitted to that and pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice.

I think it's possible for a reasonable person to think that he personally killed Jacinth Baker and Richard Lollar, and that his friends and his legal team got him out of it. But I also think it's possible for a reasonable person to think that he didn't do it, but freaked out when he realized that he was the one who was going to pay for it one way or the other.

And I admit that, despite asking what penance would suffice, I don't think that anything Lewis does will ever satisfy the people who say he could redeem himself but just isn't quite there yet. I may well be wrong.

And his kids didn't come up until we were debating his professed Christianity.

No, they didn't come up for two rounds of the conversation after his professed Christianity came up.

Having six children out of wedlock with four women and not raising any of them in his own home does not suggested he's much of a Christian.

Why? Is he not supporting them? The Bible seems to be ambivalent about whether you have to raise your children in your own home.

Again, my real problem here is with people who say "Nope, that person is insufficiently deserving to call himself a Christian." The whole point of Christianity is that you get forgiven. Dismas was one of the first people taken to Heaven by Jesus, recall.

Because Christians are taught to abstain from sex until marriage, have children with the person they marry and stay with that person forever. Lewis had to be taken to court at least twice to pay child support.

You say nothing Lewis does would satisfy his critics. I think you have an exceptionally low threshold for what he has to do to be accepted as a changed man.

Ultimately, whether Lewis is a good Christian is a private matter. But in public, where he's professing his Christianity loudly and the media will likely use it to spin a tale of redemption, it's fair to judge whether that's a bunch of BS or not.

And how full of crap is Lewis about religion? Check out this passage from a 2006 SI story:

Lewis won't go so far as to call himself the Second Coming, but he's close to believing himself a prophet of sorts, and if martyrdom is the price, so be it. "God has me to do what people are afraid to do: tell the truth," he says. "Yes, racism does exist. Hatred exists every day. I'm not afraid. The worst thing that could happen to me -- and I don't see it as the worst -- is to be killed and go to heaven."

Matthew 6:1-7 sums it up pretty well, and Verse 1 is the crux: "Beware of practicing your piety before others in order to be seen by them; for then you have no reward from your Father in heaven."

I wear a Cross around my neck, but it's not to brag about my preferred religion. It's a quiet reminder about why I'm here (and how poorly I live up to what the Cross requires). Athletes who invoke their religious beliefs are, I'm sure, fully sincere in their professions of faith, but my impression is that they should do a bit more theological study than theological speech.

Oh, by the way, before the game - actually as I was exiting church and speaking with our priest - I said that Baltimore would not win the game, but New England could very easily lose it. I think I was pretty close to correct.

Because Christians are taught to abstain from sex until marriage, have children with the person they marry and stay with that person forever.

Whoa. Back the truck up here, man. Not even Catholics are taught those things anymore. You're saying he's a bad Christian for not conforming to your version of what it is. That's the whole problem here.

You say nothing Lewis does would satisfy his critics. I think you have an exceptionally low threshold for what he has to do to be accepted as a changed man.

The first thing you asked for was for him to do something he has said he can't do. He testified in court that he doesn't know who killed those two men. You're saying that he's lying, and if he doesn't admit his lie, you'll never believe that he's not lying. That's not Catch 22, but it's in the high teens.

Yes we are. Here's one story among many: Pope Benedict 0x10 urges bishops "to beef up their teaching about the evils of premarital sex and cohabitation."

You're saying he's a bad Christian for not conforming to your version of what it is. That's the whole problem here.

So everyone's a good Christian, then? From Tim Tebow to Ray Lewis and everyone in between?

He testified in court that he doesn't know who killed those two men. You're saying that he's lying, and if he doesn't admit his lie, you'll never believe that he's not lying. That's not Catch 22, but it's in the high teens.

People lie, Etrigan. Under the weird logical construction of your comment, it's a Catch-22 to believe they lied and hold out on forgiving them until they tell the truth.

But isn't that how it always works? People thought Lance Armstrong lied about using PEDs. Now he's revealed that it was a lie, so people know that his original story was a lie. He wasn't put in a Catch-22 by people who waited for the truth.

Lewis has never given a full, convincing accounting of what happened that night or why he discarded his bloody suit. Until he does, talk of his redemption is premature.

A central tenet of modern Christianity seems to be the judgment of others' professions of faith. Opinions on whether coreligionists are in fact Christian enough may have been part of Christ's teaching right from the start. Perhaps Christians have always eaten their own in this manner.

rcade, it looks like your argument is "Ray Lewis killed those people, and I'll never believe that he didn't, and any talk of his redemption has to start with him admitting it." Mine is that I don't know whether Ray Lewis killed those people, and that it's not my place to judge whether he's a good or a bad Christian anyway.

And redemption is a whole different matter, and so nebulous a concept that we can't logic each other into accepting the other person's personal judgments on it, especially since I haven't actually said what mine is.

I did it because complaining about how many kids he has by how many women makes it a little difficult to not view your entire issue with Ray Lewis -- which expands every time you're called on it -- through a racial lens.

Steve Garvey is black?!
(I may be dating myself here, but he's the first one I think of when fathering multiple children with multiple unwed women.)

Lewis is making public proclamations of his Christian faith all the time lately. It's likely to be one of the stories of the next two weeks.

You're the one who wanted to talk about whether he was a worthy Christian. So we did.

Your opinions on these matters should mean nothing to a Christian.

True. But when Lewis uses the huge media platform granted him at the end of playoff victories to glorify God and profess his religious faith, should we pretend he didn't say anything on the grounds that we're intruding on a private matter?

I don't know much about Ray Lewis, but I'll tell you this much. There's actually being a Christian, and then there's sitting on the sideline talking about what a nebulous concept redemption is.

The truth is it's not really that nebulous, but it is often the result of intensely personal interpretation. To me, the paradox - and I'm saying this from experience - is that if you actually think about it, members of the community that have a deep understanding and preach the concept of redemption are more likely to have sinned. Do I go around making this point in public? No. But I would half-jokingly share with you in private that you could almost map this relationship on a chart. I, anecdotally, can testify to the fact that some of the most moving speakers and advocates of religion, are literally the most fucked up people one on one. One very pious person I know - if you heard this person speak about God on a Sunday, your jaw would drop - has personally threatened to kill me because he thought I was sleeping with his wife. Turns out, despite his stirring speeches, he may in fact suffer from mental illness.

Now, the rub is, I can't judge this person, at least publicly. And by "can't" I mean that, in a personal situation, as a member of a flock, it probably best serves me to look for the commonalities with my brother rather than the differences. And maybe in my heart of hearts, I do accept him. But does this mean I have to be his friend, hang out with him, and as a good Christian, turn the other cheek and pretend like nothing happened? Fuck that.

And of course, the bigger picture is, I don't fucking know Ray Lewis personally. So I don't know what the fuck he did. But it is not unusual for the media to construct story lines about people I don't know, giving me bits of information, and telling me who I should root for and who I should not. But it is wise to treat this as pure entertainment. Real redemption is a matter between Ray Lewis and God, and probably not something I have a say in.

So let's stop quoting the Bible, because honestly it's a little insulting to treat practicing Christians as a bunch of retards who exist only to be victimized by your lifted passages of scripture.

To me, the real issue at hand is that in the NFL - especially if you're black - if you are a "team player" on the field, you are given a pass for all of your off-the-field antics. However, if you are an on-field "diva," you are more readily crucified. I can't fully explain this phenomenon, but I believe it to be true. Race card aside, quarterbacks like Roethlisberger and Favre get a pass for sexual deviancy because they are consummate team players. Meanwhile, Vick, Owens, Moss, Bryant, Burress, Ochocinco, not to mention countless NBA players - these guys are typically high-wattage stars in their positions, but are treated like unsignable charlatans when the sports journalists pick up on their off-the-field transgressions. I mean, Moss yelling at a food caterer led to his ousting in Minnesota. For fuck's sake, yelling at a food caterer? I still can't get over that.

So you better watch out when the media - or anyone for that matter - is telling you how great this sports player is and how bad this other sports player is. History has shown some people really know how to cash in on this phenomenon. Manti Te'o, you better get your act together.

But God also gave us brains to use, and I don't think it's fair to say that a Christian cannot actively analyze the sexually deviant or murderous intentions of a person simply because said person is peddling the redemptive Word of God, in order to at least make a personal decision to protect him or herself from the influence or ongoing false idolatry of such perpetrators. And I'm not saying Ray Lewis is any of that. But you had to go there with all that redemption is nebulous shit.

True. But when Lewis uses the huge media platform granted him at the end of playoff victories to glorify God and profess his religious faith, should we pretend he didn't say anything on the grounds that we're intruding on a private matter?

Not at all. In fact, I tire of all the Christian grandstanding every time I see someone of Lewis's ilk win something. I'm just saying that anyone, outside of God, who chooses not to forgive or redeem Lewis is ultimately talking to a wall. In their eyes, only God can redeem them, so I doubt he gives a flying f**k what insomnyuk or any of us other mortals think...

No, I'm the one who wanted to know how someone else arrived at the conclusion that he wasn't.

And when people answered your query, you told them it's improper to judge Christians. Don't open that can of worms if you don't want worms.

I have no problem with people viewing Lewis or his Christianity differently than I do. I am explaining how I view him.

Your premise that nothing from Lewis would satisfy my criticisms is simply false. He could tell us what happened in full and keep his promise to talk to the families of the two murdered men. If he wasn't involved, was just a bystander as two men died in a street fight and has no knowledge of the killers, as some believe, it should not be an onorous burden for him to explain himself.

If he had done this originally instead of lying to the police, telling others to lie and getting rid of his bloody white suit, there would be less doubt about the veracity of his story.

Uh, gentlemen? I'm seeing a distinct lack of Sports in my Sportsfilter this morning. Just saying...

I think that's the beauty of SpoFi...any reasonable discussion about sports figures/personalities can move to the left or right and continue if we stay reasonable...

Not to mention it gives great insight into the different personalities we have in our community. Such as whose Catholic, is one this thread has provided. It helps in future discusions to know where different members are comming from. The Sandusky threads give excellent insight as well.

I guess all I'm sayin is I don't mind a little levity in my sports talk.

Just a thought - if the Patriots had won would everyone on the list be bashing Tom Brady for having children with multiple partners, some outside of marriage?
What about questioning his on or off field conduct?

Just a thought - if the Patriots had won would everyone on the list be bashing Tom Brady for having children with multiple partners, some outside of marriage? What about questioning his on or off field conduct?

As far as I know, Tom Brady has never taken action to impede the investigation of two murders that denied justice for the grieving families.

Geez, I think the bottom line of all this yakking is that whether Ray Lewis is a good Christian is besides the point but if he wants to stop all the yakking he should be a bit quieter on the topic instead proclaiming it in every interview and media spot. Tebow wasn't getting the shit because he's Christian but because he's so loud about it.

I'm waiting for one of the many Muslim players in the NFL to be MVP of the season or Super Bowl. And talk about how his faith and the Quran gave him strength to lead his team. Oh yeah, that's gonna blow this kind of shitstorm right into lunar orbit.

I think it's possible for a reasonable person to think that he personally killed Jacinth Baker and Richard Lollar, and that his friends and his legal team got him out of it.

That's enough for me to think that he should not get the amount of positive attention he gets from the media. If there's even an outside chance a guy got away with murders we should just avoid putting the guy on a pedastal. Ray Lewis gets that positive attention because he's as good an entertainer as he is a linebacker. If the guy had the personality of Navarro Bowman he'd be ignored completely and if he had the personality Barry Bonds he'd have horrible horrible things written about him.

If Tom Brady wore a "Psalms 91" shirt under his uniform and talked about his Christian faith often in post-game field interviews, his child out of marriage might come up for criticism.
Blammo. Nailed it.

Have to disagree as no one would have seen it because we would have all swooned at the thought That Greek God was taking his shirt off.