Good lord are grenades ridiculously overpowered. In trouble during a firefight? Toss a grenade.

Also, I think Harkonis is the host all the time, but 10 minutes for a strictly team deathmatch with one life is a little too long, imo. If you wanna play deathmatch, let's go with like, 5 minutes? Maybe if it was objective-based with 3 lives or something, then I'd be cool with 10 min...

Good lord are grenades ridiculously overpowered. In trouble during a firefight? Toss a grenade.

Agreed, but I found that without them the game is lacking <shrug> If Hark wants to keep them restricted that's cool. However, I think I'm going to try some Retrieval or Attack and Defend for a change on servers with everything enabled.

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I'm waiting to run Attack and Defend until they fix the bomb disarm bug. (which hopefully will be Fri) I LOVE retrieval, but it gets frustrating when one team uses teamwork and the other doesn't at all.

As far as round time, if everyone only has one life, 10 minutes is usually irrelevant since most of the time everyone on one team is dead before 3 minutes goes by. We don't play with many true campers so it's very seldom it gets down to under 3 minutes to go. I had it at 5 minutes for a long time and we were occasionally having time run out just when the last two people found each other and they were getting frustrated.

I played quite a bit tonight with explosives disabled and though it was fun for a bit, the shield is way too overpowered without a way to blast through it explosively. I think the game is designed around the explosives and you just need to learn that if your first shots don't hit the guy, there is a grenade on the way. Shoot, then either throw a grenade and relocate, or just relocate. Staying put after the initial exchange gets most people killed. This game has very different tactics than most shooters, even most tactical shooters imo.

If we can get a decent number of people on the server we can run the objective maps more often, but with anything less than 4v4, retrieval and attack/defend are pretty lame to me.

I think the only thing I'll restrict is GPS, it's really the only thing that can truly unbalance everything about the game. True you can use the radar jammer, but it's a bit too situational. I've often used the GPS to obliterate the entire other team solo. That's why I had turned it off initially.

The XM-26 is pretty cheap, but it's still got some flaws, and I'll probably unban it.

If we can find some other steady hosts to join we could mix it up with some new blood once in awhile and that could be pretty fun. I could also open up a few public slots on my server to let new blood in and still have the option to kick idiots.

I enjoy playing all the game modes and think we should mix them all up from time to time. Even a full 14 man FFA with respawns can be fun once in a while. It's amazing how different the gameplay of each mode feels.

Good lord are grenades ridiculously overpowered. In trouble during a firefight? Toss a grenade.

Agreed, but I found that without them the game is lacking <shrug> If Hark wants to keep them restricted that's cool. However, I think I'm going to try some Retrieval or Attack and Defend for a change on servers with everything enabled.

Seriously though, give me one good reason why its lacking. I'm not trying to be snarky although this is going to sound like it: Is it 1. you want easier kills (throw the grenade or incendiary)? 2. You want to be able to bypass shooting the guns for kills (defeats the purpose of a tactical shooter). 3. You think its more tactical to randomly throw grenades/incendiary when there is no included feature to throw them back, dive or roll away, sprint away, time the fuse, or otherwise make the explosives at least act somewhat realistic? 4. You like to be able to do badly in a firefight and compensate with grenades? Really, these are the reasons I am seeing.

Yeah seeing things go bang is fun and satisfying-it also completely defeats the tactical shooter aspect of the gameplay that is so highly touted by us, Ubisoft, and R6 fans. It completely and utterly changes the way the game is played, and its for the worse. The game becomes half grenade spam (and don't anyone that has played longer than 10 minutes say that is not true)-every single game opens with contact that involves blindly throwing grenades or planting C4 where you know the enemy will arrive-its not uncommon to see 10 grenades go flying across a small area in the first minute or two of combat. How many times have I legitimately outdueled someone just to die afterwards because with his dying breath he somehow throws a grenade 15 yards and I, of course, cannot possibly roll or duck away from it. Like grenade tagging in GoW, grenades and incendiary are poorly designed, poorly implemented, and are coming close to defeating the entire, stated goal of the R6 series. It is making something thats tactical not. It is introducing grenade spam where none is necessary. In short, I am tremendously disappointed in explosives in this game, and I am disappointed that we spend 99% of our time playing with them and getting most of our kills that way.

I'm having a love/hate relationship with R6 right now. I like the mp a good bit and have had fun playing with the gang from here. Random games on Live have been anywhere from ok to ridiculous. I'm trying to get through the single player but i just must SUCK bigtime. I'm on the 3rd mission that is through Freemont Street and i'm just getting my butt handed to me. It is taking me numerous replays through several spots to move on. It's frustrating and i'm ready to quit. I love the single player parts of games, but this one is killing me.

Calvin, a fair amount of this game is the incentive to always stay on the move, yet use cover and the grenades are how they enforce this. If you are standing (as opposed to crouching) and are near any corners, you can often get out of the way of a grenade that is thrown towards you as long as you see or hear it coming. Of course sometimes you don't see or hear it, but that's just part of the game. You really shouldn't ever be somewhere long enough for a second grenade thrown to get to you but people rarely move away once the first one is thrown.

I've found a decent tactic is to bait the enemy into 'nadeing you and counting the blasts so that you know when they've burnt their 'nades and incindiaries. All you really have to do is pop around the corner, fire once and withdrawn and you're pretty much guaranteed that a grenade is coming your way. Back up, cover that door from another angle and be ready to move around yet another corner. People are still trying to play this a bit too much like a regular shooter. A game where grenades are ridiculously overpowered would be America's Army, I think they are fine in this one plus you don't really get that many of them.

Without grenades, it's too easy to camp out a spot and pick people off as they come. Also as I mentioned above, without grenades shields become godlike. You really just have to learn that just because you are behind a wall or door does not mean you are safe.

I agree with Hark. There are spots on the maps that can give the other side a huge advantage even when they have to worry about grenades, and without them if a team sets up camp forget about getting them (think about the church top in Border Town). Flashbangs are nice, but unles they land right at your feet you can avoid the flash part quite easily- I think I only got hit with that one time last night, and the hearing penalty really doesn't do much. If you shoot someone while they're throwing a grenade then you have to accept that there's a chance the grenade will get tossed before they die.

I get more kills with the FAMAS than grenades (nice little automatic with a good range and deadly on single shot), so removing them doesn't affect my kills, but it takes away a part of the tactics in this tactical shooter. Hell, more often than not if I'm under fire I'm more likely to hit the reload button instead of the grenade button, and when I do throw them I tend to have the damn thing bounce back at me or in an unpredictable direction (usually towards another teammate).

« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 03:56:44 PM by CeeKay »

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Calvin, a fair amount of this game is the incentive to always stay on the move, yet use cover and the grenades are how they enforce this. If you are standing (as opposed to crouching) and are near any corners, you can often get out of the way of a grenade that is thrown towards you as long as you see or hear it coming. Of course sometimes you don't see or hear it, but that's just part of the game. You really shouldn't ever be somewhere long enough for a second grenade thrown to get to you but people rarely move away once the first one is thrown.

I've found a decent tactic is to bait the enemy into 'nadeing you and counting the blasts so that you know when they've burnt their 'nades and incindiaries. All you really have to do is pop around the corner, fire once and withdrawn and you're pretty much guaranteed that a grenade is coming your way. Back up, cover that door from another angle and be ready to move around yet another corner. People are still trying to play this a bit too much like a regular shooter. A game where grenades are ridiculously overpowered would be America's Army, I think they are fine in this one plus you don't really get that many of them.

Without grenades, it's too easy to camp out a spot and pick people off as they come. Also as I mentioned above, without grenades shields become godlike. You really just have to learn that just because you are behind a wall or door does not mean you are safe.

I agree with this 100%. Calvin, it's all about *anticipating* grenades, not reacting to them after they're thrown. most of the time, it's obvious when an enemy is going to toss one...you need to keep on the move, you can't just camp out some place for more than a couple minutes. I'm definitely in favor of keeping them on

and this kind of goes back to your previous post Harkonis where you say you ban the GPS and XM-26. personally, I'm not a fan of banning anything in a MP FPS unless the game is just completely poorly made. you say you have taken out entire teams with a GPS and that's certainly possible, but my counter to that is someone on the other team could just as easily pick a GPS. and it doesn't even have to be everyone, just one or two guys with it can then relay the information to the rest of the team. as far as the XM-26, I don't have near the playtime with R6 Vegas as you do, but it doesn't seem completely super-overpowered in all situations to me. this all reminds me of CS:S, where a bunch of servers banned the AWP...I couldn't stand that, I thought that was just a cheap way out. there was nothing wrong with the AWP and it's just part of the game

and yeah, I hope we can start playing some of the other game modes other than team deathmatch. to me, deathmatch is by far the most boring and outdated mode in any MP FPS

All tactical discussion aside (and good counter-points have been made), my complaints about the implementation of grenades still stands. Other than Hark's suggestion for getting away from them (which is, more often than not complete random luck), no one has addressed my issues with the way grenades are thrown, fused, timed, the inability to roll, sprint, throw back, find effective cover, etc. Nor has anyone addressed how you can be literally on the last pixel of an exploding incendiary grenade-the absolute farthest point from the incendiary grenade but still in its blast radius and be insta-killed, or be in an area or near cover that should have absorbed an frag blast and have the blast magically kill you, or any of that.

I agree with some of what you are saying about the tactical consideration/necessity of having grenades. I have thought of that, and to a much lesser extent than you guys believe, I somewhat agree to you. But the egregious flaws in the implementation of the explosives overrides those tactical concerns for me.

And Hark, I have never seen the shield be overpowered-I have managed to kill a shield-user with every weapon in my arsenal, and have not needed explosives to do so.

I know the shield is overpowered, because I was the one using it. I went 1v3 twice with it when we turned off all explosives and was taking the entire other team down in a hall way with all three of them in front of me. When used properly the shield makes you nigh invisible in close quarters.

Regarding the XM-26, I love the gun myself and would rather not ban it, but some people do think it is too easy to use in close quarters. It IS easy, but it has a flaw if you happen to miss five times. Not many people miss five times.

The GPS is a bit different though in my opinion. I'll unrestrict it now that we've played a bit, and we can see how the game plays with nothing banned. I do feel a bit cheap with it though. Combining the GPS with the XM-26 you can sneak around, know where everyone is so you get in close quarters, and with the XM-26 on full auto I've taken down a room full solo.

Edit: oh, forgot about the deathmatch bit. I agree that Team Survival all the time is boring and have mentioned I'd like to play the other modes. We haven't been playing deathmatch though, that's with respawns. Retrieval is an absolute blast but requires much more from each team member or it just doesn't work very smoothly. Attack and defend is much more lenient for beginners, but the bomb glitch means we either don't play bomb maps (which we could definitely do) or the attacker is going to win.

I'm on the Dam level at the part where you have to stop Irena from escaping.

I don't understand what I'm supposed to do. I storm the warehouse, kill whatever guys I can, but keep failing the mission because Irena escapes.

I thought maybe Irena was upstairs because I could see a guy on the upper level in the office, but when I tried to make a beeline (within reason -- I didn't want to get shot in the back either) up to that office, I still failed even before I reached it.

And then there is a computer on the lower level that one of my guys can hack into, but that didn't seem to be helpful at all either.

You need to hack the console, defend your teammate while he's hacking it, then go upstairs, you'll see Irena, go to the door to the far left of where you see her. Should open and let you go to the next section. I had a bug where the door wouldn't actually open, but it had checkpointed, so I reloaded and the door was open. Go figure.

As far as the proximity thing goes, they needed a better implementation of it to be honest. I'm hoping for more communication and coordination between team members now that you don't have to be ultra paranoid.

I won't around tonight but look for me this weekend. I'm glad they pulled the proximity thing out as it just didn't work well the way it was set up. They needed to adjust the volume for proximity and indoors vs. outdoors. As it was I could stand on a roof and hear someone below me indoors as if they were standing right next to me. I'd rather have the team coordination ability over the eavsdropping ability...if I have to choose.

Meh, I am pissed they took out the proximity voice and I am more pissed they said NOTHING about the game breaking bug on realistic.

There's a work around for the realistic bug:

Quote

if your going to do the story mode dont go to load last checkpoint or the difficulty will go to normal... go to scene selection..and go to the scene u left of. (sometimes you might have to re-play stuff u already played)

Finally have it. Finally have tasted the sweet candy that is terrorist hunt. Ike is a less than capable partner.

So far the SP isn't wowing me, but the MP- with the limited skill and exposure I have- is great fun.

Well its not like you are all that either sir

Well, considering you were the only one who had played the game before and were dying with barely more kills than either ike or myself, you have no legs.

Um, haven't touched the game in almost 4 months or so buddy, and unlike you, I don't jump first into every firefight specifically to rack up my kill count. It's ok to not always lead in kills if we finish the mission sir.

Me and Hark and a few others were playing last night. One tip is not to group too closely together (as Superhiro, someone else and I discovered), and don't stand right behind someone or else you may catch the excess bullets when they fall (I forget the two I got with that one). For some reason I thought they nerfed the FAMAS but it didn't seem like it when I was using it last night.

Glad you're liking it ATB.

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