On an unrelated note, I think the Bills' defeat says a lot about how weak the AFL really was in its early years.

This information leaves me with a couple of questions. First, the games listed above came from NFL.com , a list of NFL games played outside the United States. Does anyone know if there were any NFL vs. CFL games held in the United States?

Second, according to Wikipedia, the games were played with a mixture of rules. Does anyone know anything about what rules were used? Although the games are similar, there are some huge differences (number of players, number of downs, size of the field, etc.)

Finally, does anyone know of any other exhibitions held between NFL teams and non-NFL teams? I am aware of the College All-Star Game that featured a team of College All-Stars against the Super Bowl champions (an event that deserves its own thread). Did the NFL ever have exhibitions with the AAFC or AFL (before Super Bowl I) like they did with the CFL?

And just for the record, I do recommend watching a CFL game if you are starved for football like I am. The rules are funky, but it's still football. The talent isn't fantastic, but any Redskins' fan knows that plenty of good players can be found in the Great White North. Joe Thiesmann, Mike Nelms and Mike Sellars are three that come to mind, and I am sure there are many more (please list any you think of).

Steve Spurrier III wrote:The talent isn't fantastic, but any Redskins' fan knows that plenty of good players can be found in the Great White North... and I am sure there are many more (please list any you think of).

I'll try to answer as many of the questions as I can, and can remember.

- The CFL was popular down here before the AFL took flight...with the help of an ABC contract.

- The NFL had more money and better talent, but there was not a staggering difference. The NFL had to bid against the CFL for players. College stars usually to play in the NFL, but a fair number chose Canada.

- Example: the best QB at the University of Maryland in the '50's -- the great Jim Tatum teams -- signed in Canada. From Wikipedia:

Bernie Faloney (born 1932 – died June 14, 1999) was a star football player in the United States and Canada.

B.J. "Bernie" Faloney was born in Carnegie, Pennsylvania, where he played high school football before attending the University of Maryland, College Park. There, he played college football, helping his team make it to the Sugar Bowl in 1952. In his senior year, he quarterbacked Maryland to be NCAA Division I-A national football champions and into the Orange Bowl. At season's end, Faloney finished fourth in the balloting for the 1953 Heisman Trophy and was drafted in the first round by the San Francisco 49ers of the National Football League but signed with the Edmonton Eskimos of the Canadian Football League.

A scrambling quarterback, he helped the Eskimos win the 1954 Grey Cup but then fulfilled his mandatory service in the United States armed forces, serving with the U.S. Air Force from 1955 to 1956. Traded to the Hamilton Tiger-Cats in 1957, Bernie Faloney became one of the major stars of the Canadian Football league, winning four Grey Cup championships. In 1961 he was voted the Schenley Award as the league's most valuable player. Traded from Hamilton in 1965, he played for the Montreal Alouettes and the British Columbia Lions before retiring in 1967. His career CFL stats include 1,493 pass completions of 2,876 attempts for 153 touchdowns and 24,264 yards. He still holds the Grey Cup record for most passes completed, most yards thrown, and most touchdowns.

Bernie Faloney was inducted into the Canadian Football Hall of Fame in 1974, the Western Pennsylvania Hall of Fame in 1983, the Pennsylvania Sports Hall of Fame in 1985 and the University of Maryland Athletic Hall of Fame in 1988.

- Note that the NFL champion played the college all-stars. There wasn't a Super Bowl until the 1966 season. For a Redskin angle, Charley Taylor played on one of the last college teams to beat the pros. I think he intercepted a pass or two -- yes, they played the best modern WR on defense in that game.

- The NFL never let a team play the AFL before the merger. At least not that I can remember. The NFL hoped and expected that the AFL to fly away and stop bothering them. Incidentally, the Super Bowl was not a big deal for the first few games, since no one expected the AFL team to compete well. And they didn't. The NFL championship was the Big Game.

- I suspect that exhibition games were played using NFL rules, but don't remember.

welch wrote:- The NFL never let a team play the AFL before the merger. At least not that I can remember. The NFL hoped and expected that the AFL to fly away and stop bothering them. Incidentally, the Super Bowl was not a big deal for the first few games, since no one expected the AFL team to compete well. And they didn't. The NFL championship was the Big Game.

Actually, that's not entirely true. The merger didn't take place until 1970. Before that, the Super Bowl was just called the NFL-AFL Championship game. Most people say it was Namath's Jets beating the Colts in SB III, that paved the way for the merger.

Hall of Famer Warren Moon played 5 or 6 years with the Edmonton Eskimos. He tore up the league too, and they won a bunch of Cups with him leading the offense. If you combine Moon's CFL passing yards (21,000 yards passing in 5 years) with his NFL stats (49,000 yards) he combines for over 70,000 yards passing. It showed Moon's class the way he talked about his years i nthe CFL and thanked his coaches etc from Edmonton during his induction speech. Shows he wasn't embarrassed to have been a part of the league.

The CFL bears watching, if you can get past the chintzy way the game is televised up here. I will say this, the NFL is a better product. I prefer 4 downs, smaller fields, etc. I CANNOT stand the fact that they award a single point for kicking it through the end zone or for MISSING A field goal, and the end zones are GIGANTIC - like entire fields unto themselves. The game is different though. Smaller players. Faster "big" men. Individually, NFL stars come up here and often do not fare so well. Take Williams. Big back....north south kinda runner. In the CFL, he simply does not have the O-lines he would in the NFL. Guys are in the backfield before he has a chance to cut. His time here in the CFL will go down as a bust and a money grab I'm sure.

Now, if you took an entire NFL team up here, and even played the CFL rules, I have complete confidence it would be a rout. Raw talent wins the day, more often than not, and the NFL *DEFINITELY* has more talent.

You'll get some die-hard Canadian CFL fans up here that will argue the CFL is a more exciting, better product. It's not.

I attended 3 of the NFL-CFL exhibition games, including the Hamilton victory over Buffalo. A mixed set of rules was used. Half of each game was played under Canadian rules and half under NFL rules. When the Canadian team had the ball in both halves, the teams lined up a yard apart as in CFL play. In both halves, when the NFL team had the ball, the teams lined up head-to-head. In those days, the football used in the CFL was larger, a fact which is no longer the case. When the NFL team had the ball, the American-sized football was used. When the CFL team had the ball, the Canadian-sized ball was used.

In the Hamilton-Buffalo game, the Bills scored their 3rd touchdown in the last minute of the game against Hamilton's second-string defence.

Come to thnk of it, the Redskins once had a QB named Joe Th<something> who was drafted by Miami but chose the CFL rather than sit behind Griese.

Played very well in Canada., enough to interest the Redskins, who had a pair of elderly starters named Sonny and Billy...both within sight of retirement.

George Allen traded a couple of first rounders for Joe QB (OK, maybe one first and a second, but Crazy Old George wouldn't bargain down when he really wanted a player).

When NFL Films re-plays SB 17, look for the Redskins starting QB. Smart, fast, made the defensive play of the game when a Dolphin blocked his pass and he leaped up inside the arms of the giant defensive player to slap the ball to the ground. Amazing reaction. Amazing athletics.