I signed it, i totally agree that people should STOP breeding Cavaliers if they have syringomelia

harleyfarley

29th July 2009, 11:43 AM

i agree, and signed it, i think its the only way to make sm a rareity, di

Karlin

29th July 2009, 12:56 PM

This is a good place to post the link, thanks!

frecklesmom

29th July 2009, 05:15 PM

Signed :thmbsup:

JessWhitfield

29th July 2009, 06:20 PM

Thank You all so much.
Please tell everyone you can, anyone who cares.

linderbelle

30th July 2009, 01:13 AM

Thanks for posting this. I signed it.

Sharon 7

30th July 2009, 04:58 AM

signed also

Brian M

30th July 2009, 11:22 AM

Hi Jess

Signed ,and thank you.:)

Tania

30th July 2009, 02:39 PM

Thank you.

Bet

30th July 2009, 07:16 PM

I was pleased to sign the Petition , sorry if I mentioned about the MVD Problem in our Cavalier Breed,but I just thought it was so important to mention it as well.

This is what has been needed for so long ,for our voices to be being listened to.

Bet( Hargreaves)

harleyfarley

30th July 2009, 07:39 PM

oh dear its not been received well on "that other forum", :wggle: di

JessWhitfield

30th July 2009, 08:41 PM

Bet. Im pleased that you signed it too and thank you. MVD is just as important. I just feel overall more people are aware of that as appose to SM. Frankly, it should all be stopped. It just makes me so angry and emotional. Im finding it quite hard to even look at Daisy now without wanting to cry. I cant be sure she has SM because MRI scanning is so expensive.

Harley, on which forum is it not being received well?

Again, thank you all.

Bet

31st July 2009, 09:28 AM

Jess,

This is a great thought you have had, I don't know how many Folk will sign the Petition , but what also is so important is the many Folk in other Countries who have read it.

The Petition is being read World Wide.

Bet(Hargreaves)

Karlin

31st July 2009, 12:14 PM

That 'other forum' is somewhat biased in that it has several breeder members who know well they have ignored their pet puppy owners who have returned to tell them their dogs have SM and MVD -- in several cases, refusing to return their calls or respond to their letters, some sent registered (I encourage anyone with an affected dog to send the breeder a registered letter just to confirm it has been received. Then send the results of the scan/heart cert to Sarah Blott for the EBV research). There are show breeders who have sold on their SM-affected dogs outside of the UK, and those who imply the affected dogs that they do acknowledge, came from other breeders when the truth is that a dog of their own breeding was involved in the mating. There are breeders who publicly advocate puppy buyers only buy from breeders with heart certs, yet I have clear evidence in email exchanges of a pet buyer privately encouraged to buy from friends of a breeder who are committee members and who use underage sires and un-heart-tested parents. Many if not most would have used their studs at well under MVD protocol and SM guideline breeding age and the annual lists of litter registrations and the online pedigree databases reveal just how many dams are also bred at under the MVD protocol and SM guidelines.

Some of these people are club health representatives. Many are on their club committees. Some are prominent on the national club.

Their problem is that for all the bluster by some breeders publicly, there are pet owners who have the copies of the correspondence they sent, the MRI scans with the bad results, the cardiologist certs that show early onset MVD; the private email exchanges with some of these people that they saved and have sent on to people trying to work towards better breed health. There are online databases, from pedigrees to OFFA, and the puppy registration publications that make it easy to see who has been breeding outside the MVD protocol. There are the public statements these people have made over the years on email lists and boards that stand in clear contrast to the truth of certain matters (all saved by a few of us as a matter of public record, some of it submitted to the Parliamentary enquiries on dog breeding).

There are increasingly angry pet owners and decent breeders that do care who are sick and tired of the blatant lies from some of these people and their public manipulations. But it is harder and harder for those breeders who know they are covering up to control the information because of the internet. While there are obviously situations in which best efforts will produce affected dogs, the clear facts are that there are people choosing to pretend that SM doesn't exist as long as they don't test or 'see' it in their lines (the same people who mass-kennel their dogs and hardly could be aware of the dogs' day to day behaviours and sell the vast majority of puppies to pet people who never contact the breeder again), and choosing to breed anyway with dogs that should not be bred, and not informing people when they find their dog that produced several -- perhaps hundreds -- of litters turns out to have SM, even to the degree of limping around the show ring.

It's no surprise some have now started to tar and feather Sarah Blott's work with EBVs, because it eventually (it does take time for some!) sunk into their brains that that EBVs will reveal how poor their own lines have been on MRIs and/or heart certs. I always predicted it was only a matter of time til they started to claim they wouldn't follow the EBVs for this reason or that but the plain truth is -- they know they cannot hide from the results of past testing done on their lines and the genetics of EBVs won't lie.

That's why they get so overwrought on public forums -- it is a PR exercise.

I just feel sorry for those breeders who do work hard to address health issues as their efforts are a drop in the ocean compared to the approach of so many, including their own club reps in many cases.

Bet

31st July 2009, 12:49 PM

Thanks Karlin for your Post.

It makes it all worth while about the Snide Remarks I have to take.

As you say it's such a pity for the Conscientious Cavalier Breeders who are doing their Best to help our Cavaliers have Healthier ,Longer Lives, but it's the others who are only paying Lip Service to the Cavalier Health Problems that are letting the Cavaliers down.

It never dawned on me when I was told that the person I was speaking to would'nt be involved in the EBV Scheme ,nor would other Cavalier Breeders ,could'nt make sense of the comment, now the reason has fallen into place.

In all this ,the only Sufferers are our Cavaliers. What is at the bottom of it , Egos or Money.

Bet(Hargreaves)

Margaret C

31st July 2009, 06:11 PM

I find myself in a bit of a dilemma here.

I understand what Jess is feeling and is trying to achieve with her petition, but there are some inaccuracies which make it difficult for me to wholeheartedly agree with the way it is worded.

The Kennel Club has recently banned what is generally accepted by the term inbreeding ( mother to son, father to daughter, brother to sister matings )
However matings of close relatives ( line breeding ) are still allowed and are still very common. This practice is also detrimental to the health of any breed because it will narrow the gene pool and allows the spread of inherited health problems.

Cavaliers that are not suitable for showing are not culled. It is not necessary because any cavalier will make a marvellous family pet, and there is always a market for the puppies and young adults who do not make the grade in the show ring.

Syringomyelia is not really fatal and there are many dogs that live for many years with their SM symptoms controlled with painkillers.
Unfortunately there has also been many cavaliers euthanized because their pain could not be controlled.

There are many marvellous breeders that love their dogs, breed them with care, and enjoy showing them.
Unfortunately, as Karlin says, there is not enough of them to save this breed by themselves.

I would have hoped that a year after the film was shown there would have been more help from the KC ( health information sent out with registrations would make a start by informing non-cavalier club breeders about the problems in the breed )
There does not seem to be much news about the BVA/KC Heart & MRI scanning schemes. Foot dragging is rife within breed clubs and the KC when it comes to health matters.

I can confirm everything that Karlin says about the manipulation and deviousness of some of the best known breeders, who despite claiming they are breeding within the guidelines, that their clubs endorsed at the cavalier liaison meeting, are using underage dogs & bitches for breeding.
The Breed Record Supplement makes fascinating reading sometimes.

I cannot help but come to the conclusion that breeders like this do not care about the future of the cavalier breed nor the legacy their breeding practices will leave behind.

Karlin

31st July 2009, 06:48 PM

Thanks for raising points on the wording of the petition. Perhaps the wording could be addressed?

I find it odd that basic information on SM and MVD (at least) has not been sent by the KC to all who register litters, particularly since they have argued ever since Pedigree Dogs Exposed that they must keep the door open to such people and encourage them to learn more and breed responsibly by not being restrictive on their breeding practices! Is the whole point then not to give them appropriate information on healthy breeding for their specific breed especially when there are concerns of such weight that the future of the breed is acknowledged to be a challenge?

At our own cost, some of us are already sending such information to vets. It is not a major cost to do so -- and one would think that given prices charged to register litters, costs could easily be absorbed for devising a brochure or packet of information and the price of a stamp, for health information to be returned to breeders with the registration documents?

JessWhitfield

31st July 2009, 08:58 PM

Regarding the part about puppies being culled if they dont fit the specifications of the kennel club didnt necessarily mean with Cavaliers.
I meant more in general. I have heard of such things in other breeds.

Im afraid i wasnt aware of the developments restricting inbreeding.

If there is anything specific you would like me to change or anything you want me to add in. Please let me know.

Thanks again.

tupup

31st July 2009, 09:00 PM

Margaret thank you for raising concerns about the wording here as i too have been in quite a dilemma, on one hand i want to support any or all efforts to improve health matters but on the other some of the wording has me concerned(im sorry Jess:hug:)
However i didnt have the courage to voice my concerns,so thanks again

chloe92us

31st July 2009, 10:44 PM

I haven't signed because I don't really understand *what* I am signing? There's no action statement in the petition. Is the petition to stop breeding all purebred dogs? Cavaliers? Or is it to try to get the KC to start requiring more testing? For it to be an effective petition, there must be a call to action. I appreciate your enthusiasm, however.

Bet

1st August 2009, 10:12 AM

Jess,

I hope it's OK mentioning this, you said , if any-body could add any-thing, maybe you could put in something about the Cavaliers 'MVD Problem.

I did put in my message 46 about the Problem, I have said for 20 years that Cavalier Breeders should not Breed from a Cavalier if he or she has a Heart Condition,maybr what could help a wee bit ,would be if before Cavaliers were made up to be Champions they were Heart Tested before they were given their Title, when they become a Champion they sure are the Flavour of the Month.

Maybe even Heart Test them before the are given their first Challenge Certificate.

This could maybe work for MRI Scanning for SM this way as well.

Chloe ,mentioned about the Petition, maybe this is the beginning of us Wee People who have been and are Broken Hearted at what is and has happened to our Cherished Cavaliers, Focusing Minds,some may scoff , but.......

Bet(Hargreaves)

Yorkysue

1st August 2009, 05:25 PM

Jess

I think there is a lot in the petition that isn't totally correct. If a petition is to carry weight it must have it's facts right.

You appear angry because you have heard about poor health in pedigree dogs, and about inbreeding and culling, then you have lumped all these allegations together and drawn up a petition stating that this is happening in cavaliers - there is absolutely nothing to suggest that breeders cull their cavalier pups, and I have looked at cavalier pedigrees on a website - and they are not 'in-bred' ie mother/son, brother sister etc!

You are very worried that your cavalier might have SM - but you haven't been to the vet about it! So how do you KNOW????? There may be nothing wrong with your dog.

Sorry to be negative - but in this case your apparent good intentions have created a petition that is full of holes and totally misleading.

Yorkysue

Margaret C

1st August 2009, 06:29 PM

Regarding the part about puppies being culled if they dont fit the specifications of the kennel club didnt necessarily mean with Cavaliers.
I meant more in general. I have heard of such things in other breeds.

Im afraid i wasnt aware of the developments restricting inbreeding.

If there is anything specific you would like me to change or anything you want me to add in. Please let me know.

Thanks again.

Hello Jesse,

In your first post you said.....

"Change happens when people like you take the time to make a difference."

You are so right, and I really appreciate that you are actively trying to change what is happening to our dogs
I wish some of the breeders were as concerned as you are.

I think your petition title specifies what you want to happen..

"Stop the Kennel Club allowing Cavalier Kc Spaniels with Syringomyelia to be bred"

But I would suggest that you may be better to take out the first paragraph as the facts are not completely accurate.

"Maybe some of you know that the Kennel Club only accept the highest standard breed of dogs. To acheive this they condone and promote inbreeding. Obviously this causes major health problems for the puppies.
If puppies who are bred solely for show purposes arent born with the right markings, right shape or the right characteristics are culled."

Thank you for caring enough to start this petition

chloe92us

1st August 2009, 08:24 PM

I guess I missed the title... :o

Jess, I can tell you are very passionate about Cavaliers & SM, as we all are. However I feel the wording & information presented on the petition is just a little too, how do I say this, Peta-like? Maybe if you could remove some of the innacuracies it would seem less so.

Bet

2nd August 2009, 10:56 AM

I just don't know about this, maybe some-body will have some views,

In the early 1980's there was In- Breeding in Cavaliers ,Half -Brothers mated to Half Sisters .The SM Problem seemed to have made it's appearance around that time, is this a co-incidence or.......

There were Father to Daughter Matings in Cavaliers in the 70's ,we all know about the In-Breeding during the 2'nd World War that had to be carried out to keep the Cavalier Breed going, when Mother was Mated to Son ,Father to Daughter , then doubled up again .

The question is ,is the Cavalier Breed now paying the Price of all the In-Breeding that has taken Place earlier on because the ill health Problems now afflicting Cavaliers.

Bet(Hargreaves)

Bet

2nd August 2009, 03:46 PM

I wonder if I could mention this thought since the Petition has just appeared on the List.

How many other Countries will have Cavaliers with SM.?

Here are some that I know about

Britain
Ireland
Netherlands.
America
South Africa.
Australia.
Canada

Maybe others could add to this List, it certainly is Food for Thought.

Bet ( Hargreaves)

Margaret C

2nd August 2009, 04:38 PM

I'm sure that we have had posts from owners of SM affected dogs from many other countries.

As all Cavaliers originated in the UK, I suppose you could expect to find SM affected dogs wherever you find a reasonable size population of cavaliers?

JessWhitfield

4th August 2009, 11:26 PM

I havent been online for a few days so theres a lot to take in.

I will get around to changing the petition and i will be honest, maybe i didnt look into it as much as i should of. I was feeling quite desperate and quite surprised that something like this hadnt been started before.

I know theyre many people out there who are working to make a difference. Working too hard. We shouldnt have to.

Yorkysue, im not offended but i should let you know; It may sound 'peta-ish' because I am infact a member of peta. Aswell as signing their petitions, donating my money to them, I also live that lifestlye. I dont eat meat and I dont eat any other products from animals. I dont wear wool, leather etc. I dont use products tested on animals. Because i care.

I thought that was something you should know. Im afraid ill never know if Daisy has SM because i cant afford it. Sometimes you just know though. She torments herself so much. She chews constantly at herself until she bleeds. She growls and whines when she scratches herself. She could be settled and the next minute shes up in a flash to scoot around on the floor scratching.

Now, even if i had the finances to be certain wheter or not she had it, it wouldnt matter either way. Id still be trying to do something about it.

I understand, the petition may have an undertone of anger and frustration because thats what I feel. You must feel that too, certainly? That a family pet or companion is suffering because someone wanted best of breed or best in show.

Bet, thanks again. I will certainly put something in about MVD and i will definitely look into SM and MVD more extensively so i can be 100% accurate. I really do want this to carry as much weight as possible, I want it to have an impact.

Thanks.

WoodHaven

4th August 2009, 11:38 PM

I havent been online for a few days so theres a lot to take in.

I will get around to changing the petition and i will be honest, maybe i didnt look into it as much as i should of. I was feeling quite desperate and quite surprised that something like this hadnt been started before.

I know theyre many people out there who are working to make a difference. Working too hard. We shouldnt have to.

Yorkysue, im not offended but i should let you know; It may sound 'peta-ish' because I am infact a member of peta. Aswell as signing their petitions, donating my money to them, I also live that lifestlye. I dont eat meat and I dont eat any other products from animals. I dont wear wool, leather etc. I dont use products tested on animals. Because i care.

I thought that was something you should know. Im afraid ill never know if Daisy has SM because i cant afford it. Sometimes you just know though. She torments herself so much. She chews constantly at herself until she bleeds. She growls and whines when she scratches herself. She could be settled and the next minute shes up in a flash to scoot around on the floor scratching.

Now, even if i had the finances to be certain wheter or not she had it, it wouldnt matter either way. Id still be trying to do something about it.

I understand, the petition may have an undertone of anger and frustration because thats what I feel. You must feel that too, certainly? That a family pet or companion is suffering because someone wanted best of breed or best in show.

Bet, thanks again. I will certainly put something in about MVD and i will definitely look into SM and MVD more extensively so i can be 100% accurate. I really do want this to carry as much weight as possible, I want it to have an impact.

Thanks.

That explains so much..
http://www.nokillnow.com/PETAIngridNewkirkResign.htm

tara

5th August 2009, 12:53 AM

JessWhitfield -- I'm concerned about the agony you are witnessing in your dog. I realize you said you won't be able to afford to have an official SM diagnosis (I'm guessing through MRI), but have you investigated any medicinal avenues to manage her symptoms? I just hate to hear of a dog in that amount of pain and distress -- just making sure you're trying to manage the symptoms, even if you don't get a formal diagnosis.

I sincerely hope your dog's agony can be alleviated somehow. I can't imagine watching Holly go through what you described.

HollyDolly

5th August 2009, 01:15 AM

Im afraid ill never know if Daisy has SM because i cant afford it. Sometimes you just know though. She torments herself so much. She chews constantly at herself until she bleeds. She growls and whines when she scratches herself. She could be settled and the next minute shes up in a flash to scoot around on the floor scratching.

This must be awful for Daisy and for you, is it not possible to explain her symptoms to your vet and what you suspicions are re SM, At least he should be able to get her on some medication to ease her suffering. If he has not heard of SM direct him towards the various websites where all the information he needs will be readily available.

You will get much support from here so hold on in there.

Nanette

Margaret C

5th August 2009, 01:37 AM

. Im afraid ill never know if Daisy has SM because i cant afford it. Sometimes you just know though. She torments herself so much. She chews constantly at herself until she bleeds. She growls and whines when she scratches herself. She could be settled and the next minute shes up in a flash to scoot around on the floor scratching.

Now, even if i had the finances to be certain wheter or not she had it, it wouldnt matter either way. Id still be trying to do something about it.

I understand, the petition may have an undertone of anger and frustration because thats what I feel. You must feel that too, certainly? That a family pet or companion is suffering because someone wanted best of breed or best in show.

I can understand how you feel. I have felt the frustration many times.
We are all trying to make a difference in the way that seems best to us.

Daisy does sound as if she is in severe pain sometimes and it must be very distressing to see her like it.
Vets will sometimes diagnose SM on clinical signs and prescribe painkillers that control the symptoms.
Frusemide, rimadyl, metacam, gabapentin and prednisolone have all played a part in keeping my three SM boys reasonably comfortable for many years.

I obviously don't know what your financial circumstances are, but if you are not working at the moment, or you are on a very low wage, have you checked out the PDSA or similar organisations to see if they can help?

chloe92us

5th August 2009, 03:56 AM

Sandy- I'm not following the link you sent. Personally, I have no opinion one way or another about any group (or will just not mention it here!) but in looking at some of the stats that site shows regarding PETA's euth'z rate, if you go to the pdf it references, the numbers are completely different...or am I missing something here? In the year 2004, the "no kill now" site says that over 2000 dogs were euth'd @ Peta. However, if you go to the pdf, it shows only 300+ were, but that over 2000 were reclaimed so the NKN site flipped the stats? Oops.

Regardless, I didn't mean to open a can with the Peta comment. If you are an AR activist, good for you if that's what you want to support... :thmbsup: But Jess, are you at all against medicating your animal? There are plenty of pain killers that you can give your dog, whether you know it's SM or not...if your dog is in pain, give it some meds!

WoodHaven

5th August 2009, 04:29 AM

Sandy- I'm not following the link you sent. Personally, I have no opinion one way or another about any group (or will just not mention it here!) but in looking at some of the stats that site shows regarding PETA's euth'z rate, if you go to the pdf it references, the numbers are completely different...or am I missing something here? In the year 2004, the "no kill now" site says that over 2000 dogs were euth'd @ Peta. However, if you go to the pdf, it shows only 300+ were, but that over 2000 were reclaimed so the NKN site flipped the stats? Oops.

Regardless, I didn't mean to open a can with the Peta comment. If you are an AR activist, good for you if that's what you want to support... :thmbsup: But Jess, are you at all against medicating your animal? There are plenty of pain killers that you can give your dog, whether you know it's SM or not...if your dog is in pain, give it some meds!

lol-- I won't go into my feelings about AR groups(there may be children viewing), but it did explain "Jess..." attitude and petition. Not even the leading experts expect breeders to disallow ALL cavaliers with SM from breeding. There are grade A cavaliers with SM that would be encouraged to be bred and even some D's.

chloe92us

5th August 2009, 05:04 AM

:thnku: for not opening the can.

Yorkysue

5th August 2009, 09:38 AM

Jess

It wasn't me that suggested that your petition sounded a bit like PETA -but Like the others on the site, I think you really do have to do something for your poor girl to help her suffering TAKE HER TO A VET.

You say you care about animals - The HOW CAN YOU NOT DO ANYTHING FOR HER!!? :mad: I am very angry about what you are saying. If you can't afford a vet's bill Why didn't you think of this before taking on such a huge responsibility???????!!!!

Also have you let the breeder know about her - And did you in fact buy her from a recognised and caring breeder - or just a breeder or kennel outlet?

Who are you blaming here??? Or are you just offloading the blame?

Sorry I've gone off on one - but look after your baby and get her treatment! otherwise you are no better than the people you are shouting about!

Bet

5th August 2009, 10:52 AM

I live in Scotland, God's Chosen Country.......and have no idea what Peta is. ,but surely this is getting away from the original idea of Jess's thought of having a Petition about SM.

How can we Little People in the Cavalier World get our message across about the Health Problems in our Cavalier Breed, other than trying some-thing like this.?

I would like to try and find out , how many other Countries have Cavaliers with SM.

Has it originated from Britain?

Did the Mutations of the Genes start here?

I am beginning to wonder now ,did the MVD Heart Trouble start here in Britain, and because of Cavaliers being Exported in the 1950's to other Countries ,that's why MVD is so Wide-Spread in the World to- day.

Just let us all stick to-gether ,and fight to get our Cavaliers, Healthier, Longer Lives.

Just had another thought ,is Britain the Biggest Exporter of Cavaliers?

Bet(Hargreaves)

Brian M

5th August 2009, 10:06 PM

Bet

What do Cavalier show people and therefore a lot of the more well known breeders value more than most ,surely it is there constant drive for K.C. CC for their show Cavs ,cannot pressure be applied onto the K.C. to link all the Health requirements that we know are so urgently needed for our breed to the award of these most desired things .So in practice it would need the K.C. to ensure that all dogs meet a certain Health Criteria which would have to be proven by certification before any dog could enter the show ring and thereby be on the golden path to all those coveted Challenge Certificates ,so would not a petition along these lines directed to The Kennel Club by us pet owners be a useful tool in our struggle for health testing for MVD and SM and any other afflictions that may effect our beloved breed .:)

tupup

6th August 2009, 12:10 AM

Brian, you know thats not a bad idea,perhaps it could be ALL breeds to show health certs for each breeds requirements under one umbrella,otherwise im seeing so many petitions needed it makes ones head spin! Also if representing all breeds it would surely hold more weight with the KC? More breeds-more signatures? just a thought.
Are you really ready to stick your head above the parapet so soon after our last foray "over the top";)lol!

JessWhitfield

6th August 2009, 12:49 AM

Daisy has been to the vets many, many times. They blamed fleas at first when clearly she had none. Weve had shampoos, tablets, theyve taken skin scrapings, blood tests and shes still doing it. They seem reluctant to say its anything other than a seasonal allergy, like hayfever.

I hope its not coming across that im neglecting her because im not. Shes very well taken care of. I will be looking at taking her to the PDSA but im not quite sure how much they offer in the way of serious treatments.

I will be changing the petition. I really didnt want to cause a fuss here.

tupup

6th August 2009, 01:08 AM

Jess,
In reference to your saying you are surprised something hasnt been done before i thought you might be interested in these-
http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=30730

http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=31166

http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=30055

http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=30478

http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=30492

http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=28271
Amongst many others!Because we ALL care. A lot of work is being done by those who will help whether their pets have SM or MVD or not.
I cant knock your enthusiasm but if you cant afford treatment for Daisy how do you afford to donate to charity:-?
I hope you can get some pain meds at least arranged for her soon

JessWhitfield

6th August 2009, 01:16 AM

Sorry YorkySue. My mistake. It wasnt you who said it sounded peta-ish. I apologise.

I feel like theres something else you should all know.
Im only 17 and while I take full care of Daisy, obviously Im not the one who takes care of her vet bills. Thats mainly my mother. Although I will put money towards. Thats not the point though.

While I know the petition wasnt perfect regarding accuracy amongst some other things, it was a start. There are so many people out there who have the power, strength and money to do good and make changes. But they dont. I dont have the power, strength or money but i still want to do something good, something right. Even if its only small things to start off with.

Thanks again.

chloe92us

6th August 2009, 02:23 AM

Jess- We're not trying to beat you down and I feel badly now knowing you're only 17- I remember I thought I could change the world too at that age! :rolleyes:

HollyDolly

6th August 2009, 03:53 AM

I dont have the power, strength or money but i still want to do something good, something right. Even if its only small things to start off with.

Thanks again.

Hello Jess

I am so sorry you are having to go through this, nobody on this forum likes to hear of a dog suffering, but from what you say your little girl has been to the Vets many times without success. Have you contemplated another Vet? or armed with all the information from this forum on SM could you take it to your vet and thrust it under his/hers nose? Do you have a video Camera? if yes takes a video of Daisy while she is scratching and take that as well to the vets. It also might be an idea for you to watch the videos in the SM section on this forum so you can perhaps gain some experience into exactly what a dog is going through when suffering from SM.

I feel that instead of condemning and judging you we need to help and guide you in order for you to get the best possible help for your little Daisy.
I do not know where you live if in the UK, the RSPCA have animal hospitals throughout the UK and will help those who find it difficult finacially, I should imagine that was a really hard thing for you to write as well but hope armed with information you will be able to get the help that is so needed for your dog.

Nanette

Cathy T

6th August 2009, 04:43 AM

I remember I thought I could change the world too at that age! :rolleyes:

And I hope that never changes!! We need our young people to not accept things as they are and to try to change things. We're in big trouble if they all decide to just give up. ;)

There are so many people out there who have the power, strength and money to do good and make changes. But they dont.

You've got that right Jess....so don't give up!

Jess - do trying getting a video of your girl. I did that for my vet and it was a huge help. She was able to see what I was talking about and then when I brought her in for an exam, although she wasn't symptomatic at that moment, my vet knew what to look for.

tupup

6th August 2009, 07:18 AM

Jess thats some really good advise there to perhaps video Daisy but if you cant plse take print out info from here to your vets,i did that however i still didnt feel my vet was taking it seriously so went elsewhere for a 2nd opinion.You might find its not as expensive as you think,perhaps look at organised visits to Chestergates for scanning days(in new members thread there is one planned)Also if Daisy is insured? i was told that a scan would be covered under *investigating an illness*
Im sorry if it seems weve been a bit harsh on you, i guess its something we all feel passionatly about! So dont give up trying to change the world:)
Do let us know how you get on with Daisy,good luck

Brian M

6th August 2009, 09:40 AM

Good Morning All

Tupup It might be an idea then if we think about wording regarding a Petition to the KC regarding my little commment previous ,but as you say broaden it to include all showdogs and thereby all CC awards ,we have a bit more experiance now .Any other members any thoughts pls .:)

Yorkysue

6th August 2009, 09:42 AM

Jess

I hope I wan't too hard on you, of course I had no idea you are 17 yrs old, so probably still in education and no wage. I just made the assumption you were older. I can understand how upsetting it must be to witness your girl in discomfort and I hope that a diagnosis is made soon and she can get the treatment she needs.

It's good you are involved in trying to make a difference, and I used to jump in feet first when I was younger. But as you get older:eek: you start to look at a lot more aspects of the 'picture' (been there done that kind of thing) and try to get all your facts right, because hearsay/propagander can be presented as the truth - especially when sensationalism is involved. You need to dig down under the surface and find out what is truth and what is 'bending the truth' or embellishing it, or interpretting the facts to suit your goal!! it's called deceit.

Sorry - gone off on one again - good luck anyway.

Bet

6th August 2009, 12:10 PM

Brian, and every-body ,could we maybe help Jess with her Petition.

Here is my thought ,no CC's for Cavaliers to be given unless they have been Health Tested for MVD and SM.Mandatory Health Tests of Breeding Stock for both those Conditions in Cavaliers. No Cavaliers to be Exported unless there is a Certificate showing that those Health Tests have been carried out.

Bet (Hargreaves)

diddy

6th August 2009, 12:31 PM

Yes Bet, I sure think that would help.

Brian M

6th August 2009, 12:32 PM

Hi Bet

Those are mine and tupups thoughts exactly ,being at work I only hop on and off CT so mybe we could all have a good think re wording and P aims over the week-end ,what say you .:)

Bet

6th August 2009, 03:01 PM

Yes ,I really do think we have a great chance with this to get our Voices heard.

Maybe we can get Jemima Harrison , Beverley Cuddy, Ryan O'Mera and the most important of all Karlin ,to give us help in how this could be orginized.

Bet(Hargreaves)

Bet

6th August 2009, 06:57 PM

Jess,

Have you any thoughts on how you would like your Petition to move forward?

There must be World Wide interest for it.

Look at all the folk from different Countries who have signed it.

Bet(Hargreaves)

JessWhitfield

7th August 2009, 02:17 AM

I didnt think any of you were being harsh, just honest. I should have made myself more clear instead of rushing in and thinking the first answer was the right one.

We have changed vets a few times. The one were at now is probably the best so far. Im in the North East of England, i know theres a PDSA close by but I havent heard of any screening days offered by anyone. I will definitely make a video of daisy to take to the vets with me. Its a brilliant idea. She has a follow up appointment in 2 weeks, luckily. Ill be sure to let you all know how it goes.

Ill be working on the petition over the weekend so if theres anything specific you'd like me to put in, write your own little paragraph or point me in the direction of some other useful sites. Have the Kennel Club made any adjustments to what's acceptable and whats not just in terms of the cavalier breed?

As far as the petition goes, I wasnt quite sure what I was going to do with it if I got the target amount of signatures. My first thought was to send it to the KC. If this is a bad idea or if you think of something else, let me know that too.

I really feel like I owe you all something.

Thanks so much.

Jess

Bet

7th August 2009, 10:00 AM

Jess,

Could I mention a Site by Carol Fowler,

www.cavaliercampaign.com

I think you might get information from it.

Bet(Hargreaves)

Kate H

7th August 2009, 11:33 AM

Hi Jess

A vet in Bishop Auckland is offering an MRI scanning day for Cavaliers on 19 August. It will be a mini scan (head and shoulders, not full spine, but often sufficient to pick up SM) and costs £230 (inc. VAT) - sounds a lot but very much cheaper than a full scan. Could you beg, borrow or steal that amount?! It should tell you what is happening with your dog, and a scan is really the only way to know definitely whether SM is there or not. For more information go to the Cavalier Club site (www.thecavalierclub.co.uk (http://www.thecavalierclub.co.uk)) and scroll down on the home page until you see the heading Wear Vets, which gives you contact details.

All the best

Kate, Oliver (with SM) and Aled

harleyfarley

7th August 2009, 01:27 PM

Thats not a bad price at all, harleys scan was 1340 but the quote was for £2000, at the animal health trust, if the vet hadnt agreed to scan harley i could not have afforded it, di

Karen and Ruby

8th August 2009, 06:57 PM

I have put off writing on this thread for a while however i Signed on today and feel I have to say something.

People like myself and Jess are what I like to call the FUTURE and there wont be a FUTURE for our Cavvies if people like us dont get on board with knowledge and ideas and do something.
I myself am only 25 and Ruby has been with me for 3 years and I never, ever dreamed that this is what my life with my first dog would end up like. As I write my baby is at the vets with god knows what sticking in her as she has caught an infection as I beleive her immune system is weakened through all the Meds she takes for the SM. That isnt what ive been told but what I think. She and all the other SM Cavs are the real victims in this and its the damn right obnoxious people high up in the KC that will not make a change. I am disgusted that after all the reasearch and testing people like our neurologist C.Rusbridge have dedicated themselves to that it still is consisered by some as 'a newly discovered' problem. I have been looking for a companion for Ruby for over a year now and I feel I will never be satisfied enough to actually bring home a baby as having 'A' scanned parents isnt enough but unfortunatly I believe that there probably arent any real clear dogs left to breed.
I cant help but think that bashing at Jess for what she is trying to do at such a young age is ignorent and yes I reaslise that no one realised her age but even so this website is supossed to be one of support and knowledge for Cavalier owners so surely this is what we should be doing for jess.

If there is anything you want help with please let us know- yes the wording could be changed to make more impact as beleive you me it is going to take a hell of a lot more than words to make a change! but at the end of the day if something doesnt change the only place our future generations will be looking at a Cavvie is stuffed, behind glass in the EXTINCT section of a museum.

When I think about my Ruby I am filled with the biggest sense of pride, she is going from day to day suffering with upmost dignity and grace- she never complains or stops supporting me in my times of need and never fails to give me a cuddle even when she is at her worst. It pains me that all I can do is give her painkillers and medication and we dont know if it is working or not. If it isnt working then my girl probably wont see her 5th birthday as her syrinx was so large at the time of diagnosis.

I personaly think that people should be restricted from showing unless their dog is proved healthy, and yes i realise that there probably wont be any to show but in my opinion that is a good thing. Show dogs are suposed to be Perfect specimens of the breed but what is perfect about a dog crippled by pain? I also think that dogs not scanned shouldnt be bred from at all. I went to Crufts this year to have a look around and was disgusted at what I saw, dogs with obvious bowed legs and coned heads winning classes- now correct me if Im wrong but shouldnt a Cavs head be almost flat between the ears? If so then I think the judges need a re test for whatever 'qualification' they have to have an opinion!!

Ive just realised just how much ive written so Im going to stop now!

Karen and an absent Ruby xx:xctly:

Karen and Ruby

8th August 2009, 07:13 PM

I have just been on the KC website and there have been no 'Reforms' to the Cavalier breed standard but then all of the changes are to do with looks and not health.
Could we put something in there to do with the KC acreditited breeder scheme and that to be a member of the scheme that breeding stock must be tested for SM and be either an A or otherwise under the Rusbridge scheme. This way for the breeders to still have KC status they would have to test their stock?

Margaret C

8th August 2009, 08:28 PM

I have just been on the KC website and there have been no 'Reforms' to the Cavalier breed standard but then all of the changes are to do with looks and not health.
Could we put something in there to do with the KC acreditited breeder scheme and that to be a member of the scheme that breeding stock must be tested for SM and be either an A or otherwise under the Rusbridge scheme. This way for the breeders to still have KC status they would have to test their stock?

I am so sorry to hear about Ruby. I hope she is back to give you a cuddle soon.

I'm glad you and Jess feel angry about what is going on. Keep that indignation. You are very important, you are the future, and cavaliers ( all purebred dogs in fact ) need young people like you who are motivated enough to get involved in fighting the welfare issues that affect pedigree dogs.

Well done for going onto the KC website, you will be more effective if you learn all you can, so you have a sound base of facts to lend weight to what you say.

Tomorrow I will try and explain a little about the very flawed Accredited Breeders Scheme, but I have done too much typing today & my arthritic fingers are having some welfare issues of their own.

WoodHaven

8th August 2009, 09:57 PM

I have just been on the KC website and there have been no 'Reforms' to the Cavalier breed standard but then all of the changes are to do with looks and not health.
Could we put something in there to do with the KC acreditited breeder scheme and that to be a member of the scheme that breeding stock must be tested for SM and be either an A or otherwise under the Rusbridge scheme. This way for the breeders to still have KC status they would have to test their stock?

You do realize that Rusbridge breeding protocol does NOT require that both dogs are MRI'd. OR that they both even pass clear of SM... right.

Karen and Ruby

8th August 2009, 10:48 PM

Yes I am aware, im one of the lucky ones who has her as our neurologist.
I was making a sugestion of what could be done and it was mearly a sugestion and some breeders I have spoken to already use her breeding guidelines. I hope that if and when the EBV scheme starts that everyone gets on board although I find that unlikely as some people like I said fail to admit there is a problem!
I can sense that there is a distinct divide between breeders and concerned owners and it is that divide that is causing the problems for our little dogs, mine being one of them. Until that break is fixed then there really is no point in trying to do anything x

chloe92us

11th August 2009, 03:26 AM

I've just been reading about EBVs and for those of you in the UK, Carol Fowler has some very direct ways you can help. Here is the link: