130 posts in this topic

The Unseen 156

Had to put down my dog I had from childhood today. Therefore naturally the question arised.

There is no pain like the pain of a loved one gone,even if that loved one is a pet and to some a pet is a family member,I am sure that there is a place in heaven because God created all and is it not so that what God created is Good, He created all even the animals for Adam who named them,So why wouldnt God have them in Heaven,Why would he waste his time making them ? I know your heart is heavy and may God ease your pain,Low is the heart that has lost but only realize that ,the love that was lost never ends,LOVE dosent die Know that even though you have lost your companion that even his love for you still excists and will so untill you meet again.Believe in what God has let you learn,Love never dies,they just take it with them to hold for you, God bless you in you time of sorrow,

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The Unseen 156

I may Not Be a Christian,but I do believe in God,Jesus and the Holy Spirit,I may not walk the path of the rightous,But I know between right and wrong,I love my fellow Humans even though some here would say different,Just saying still I believe that animals go to heaven.

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Manfred von Dreidecker 29,579

Getting back on topic and to try to take it slightly seriously once again, I found this quote from Meister Eckhart, the medieval thologian and Visionary, on the subject of Heaven:

When asked where does the soul of a person go after death, he replied, "No place. Where else would the soul be going, Where else is the eternal world? It can be nowhere other than here." Meaning that there isn't a distinction between "Us" and "Them", Earth and Heaven, but Heaven, and therefore what people choose to call God, is everywhere all around, and the souls of all living things are still with us, just not in tangible form.

I agree with others, if my dogs are not there with me then I'll not go either. I've always enjoyed this, and I placed it on the memorial page for my pets that are no longer with us.

This post isn't aimed only at these four responses, these are just examples of an issue I wanted to raise. It seems that emotional attachment to an animal is an important point for people who say that a heaven wouldn't be heaven if said creature wasn't there....

I recently watched a finale of a tv-series in which the main character died. This character I had gotten to know over a period of years and became emotionally involved in their triumphs and pains. In this finale episode the character died. And I cried. It was a very emotional episode and I cried virtually from start to finish. So in context of this discussion, my question to counter these responses is....

Do tv-characters go to heaven?

For many people, characters on tv represent real people. And over the course of years people become invested into the lives of these people. Their triumphs are our triumphs, their pains are our pains. But at some point things end, and sometimes a character dies. We know they aren't "real", but regardless of this we still cry and mourn and wish the script-writers had chosen alternative ends. Mourning the end of a character in a series may seem a laughable scenario, but it happens (it happened to me just today when watching a series finale), and when it does we mourn. I wished to hell that the series didn't end THAT way, that the writers could have chosen a less heart-wrenching alternative, and in some strange way my life won't be the same without that character. Many of the arguments about animals in heaven could apply to tv-characters who I've known and loved and lost.

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libstaK 6,399

This post isn't aimed only at these four responses, these are just examples of an issue I wanted to raise. It seems that emotional attachment to an animal is an important point for people who say that a heaven wouldn't be heaven if said creature wasn't there....

I recently watched a finale of a tv-series in which the main character died. This character I had gotten to know over a period of years and became emotionally involved in their triumphs and pains. In this finale episode the character died. And I cried. It was a very emotional episode and I cried virtually from start to finish. So in context of this discussion, my question to counter these responses is....

Do tv-characters go to heaven?

For many people, characters on tv represent real people. And over the course of years people become invested into the lives of these people. Their triumphs are our triumphs, their pains are our pains. But at some point things end, and sometimes a character dies. We know they aren't "real", but regardless of this we still cry and mourn and wish the script-writers had chosen alternative ends. Mourning the end of a character in a series may seem a laughable scenario, but it happens (it happened to me just today when watching a series finale), and when it does we mourn. I wished to hell that the series didn't end THAT way, that the writers could have chosen a less heart-wrenching alternative, and in some strange way my life won't be the same without that character. Many of the arguments about animals in heaven could apply to tv-characters who I've known and loved and lost.

So, do tv-characters go to heaven?

~ Regards, PA

Is that really a fair comparison? My pets have a huge impact on my state of mind.

When I am stressed or have had a hard day, the joyous greeting I get from my dog Matilda when I collect her from my parents (she gets babysat, spoilt adorable brat) and then the contented purr later in the evening of my cat/s on my lap melt the troubles of my day away into nothing.

That is no small thing, it provides balance to my mental state and grounds me to realise that it's the little special moments that matter not the issues and differences we sometimes have with people during the day. My pets efforts and company provide me with the space I need to forgive and forget when someone hurts me and to love my friends and family not just inspite of but even sometimes because of their faults which have taught me so much - after all I expect nothing of my pets but that they be happy and recognise that when they are naughty it does not make them less loveable and so I treat people with the same grace.

But the fact is, I am not just talking about our pets getting to heaven, I am talking about the nature of heaven itself and what we would consider a piece of heavenly bliss. For me green meadows, wild flowers a pure flowing stream and rivers/lakes, mountains, trees, birds, rabbits, foxes, every one of God's creatures in fact all enjoying peace and harmony, as above so below, if God created the earth and all it's creatures and saw that it was good would he not also have all that is good in heaven too? We can't claim to know but we can use our imagination and not exclude the possibility that our pets will be part of our bliss.

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Manfred von Dreidecker 29,579

But the fact is, I am not just talking about our pets getting to heaven, I am talking about the nature of heaven itself and what we would consider a piece of heavenly bliss. For me green meadows, wild flowers a pure flowing stream and rivers/lakes, mountains, trees, birds, rabbits, foxes, every one of God's creatures in fact all enjoying peace and harmony, as above so below, if God created the earth and all it's creatures and saw that it was good would he not also have all that is good in heaven too? We can't claim to know but we can use our imagination and not exclude the possibility that our pets will be part of our bliss.

I think that's a very fair point. one definition of Heaven that I've seen is that it's where you're reunited with everything that you've loved. That would surely include animals as well as persons, and indeed all the things that you've loved doing, e.g. music and literature and things, who knows, maybe even World of Warcraft, although I haven't seen any research into that as yet.

Anyway, that's one theory, another is my preferred theory that you become part of the mind of God*, and as, surely, God is in everything that he**'s created***, that would include all living things, as well as inanimate things as well.

By who's standards ? One can like the character from the book but see it all as fictional and never follow him or the faith.. I thought a christian was one who believed in him and carried faith in his word?

You seem to like him, therefore you're a Christian..

Next they'll be saying - If you've heard of him, you're Christian lol..

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freetoroam 20,572

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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett

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ZaraKitty 771

This post isn't aimed only at these four responses, these are just examples of an issue I wanted to raise. It seems that emotional attachment to an animal is an important point for people who say that a heaven wouldn't be heaven if said creature wasn't there....

I recently watched a finale of a tv-series in which the main character died. This character I had gotten to know over a period of years and became emotionally involved in their triumphs and pains. In this finale episode the character died. And I cried. It was a very emotional episode and I cried virtually from start to finish. So in context of this discussion, my question to counter these responses is....

Do tv-characters go to heaven?

For many people, characters on tv represent real people. And over the course of years people become invested into the lives of these people. Their triumphs are our triumphs, their pains are our pains. But at some point things end, and sometimes a character dies. We know they aren't "real", but regardless of this we still cry and mourn and wish the script-writers had chosen alternative ends. Mourning the end of a character in a series may seem a laughable scenario, but it happens (it happened to me just today when watching a series finale), and when it does we mourn. I wished to hell that the series didn't end THAT way, that the writers could have chosen a less heart-wrenching alternative, and in some strange way my life won't be the same without that character. Many of the arguments about animals in heaven could apply to tv-characters who I've known and loved and lost.

So, do tv-characters go to heaven?

~ Regards, PA

Regardless if they go to heaven or not I'd go anywhere with him. I can't say I've ever felt so connected to a TV character that I'd compare it to my connection with my dog, but you can tie emotions to anything, real or not.

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psyche101 19,777

This post isn't aimed only at these four responses, these are just examples of an issue I wanted to raise. It seems that emotional attachment to an animal is an important point for people who say that a heaven wouldn't be heaven if said creature wasn't there....

I recently watched a finale of a tv-series in which the main character died. This character I had gotten to know over a period of years and became emotionally involved in their triumphs and pains. In this finale episode the character died. And I cried. It was a very emotional episode and I cried virtually from start to finish. So in context of this discussion, my question to counter these responses is....

Do tv-characters go to heaven?

For many people, characters on tv represent real people. And over the course of years people become invested into the lives of these people. Their triumphs are our triumphs, their pains are our pains. But at some point things end, and sometimes a character dies. We know they aren't "real", but regardless of this we still cry and mourn and wish the script-writers had chosen alternative ends. Mourning the end of a character in a series may seem a laughable scenario, but it happens (it happened to me just today when watching a series finale), and when it does we mourn. I wished to hell that the series didn't end THAT way, that the writers could have chosen a less heart-wrenching alternative, and in some strange way my life won't be the same without that character. Many of the arguments about animals in heaven could apply to tv-characters who I've known and loved and lost.

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Paranoid Android 5,639

An animal is a living breathing being, TV-characters are fictional and are not alive. I don't see the similarity. If you don't know the difference that is very sad and you are in need of counseling.

I know the difference. I was commenting on the implication that because we have an emotional attachment to animals that therefore it would not be "heaven" if they weren't there. Whether the emotional attachment is as strong for a fictional character compared to an animal, the fact is that there is an emotional attachment. Anyone who's watched a tv show (or movie) and cried when something happened to the main character has displayed this emotional attachment.

Is that really a fair comparison? My pets have a huge impact on my state of mind.

Tv characters do not likely have the same depth of impact on us, but nonetheless they do impact us. If they didn't, we wouldn't watch it.

But the fact is, I am not just talking about our pets getting to heaven, I am talking about the nature of heaven itself and what we would consider a piece of heavenly bliss. For me green meadows, wild flowers a pure flowing stream and rivers/lakes, mountains, trees, birds, rabbits, foxes, every one of God's creatures in fact all enjoying peace and harmony, as above so below, if God created the earth and all it's creatures and saw that it was good would he not also have all that is good in heaven too? We can't claim to know but we can use our imagination and not exclude the possibility that our pets will be part of our bliss.

Since I believe that when we are in heaven we will be new creations in a new world with new bodies, I would not presume to say "for me, this is heaven and therefore that is what heaven will be like". My heaven at the moment will include lots of Star Wars, when I'm in heaven I'm not expecting to own Collectors merchandise from the original 1977 films.

Regardless if they go to heaven or not I'd go anywhere with him. I can't say I've ever felt so connected to a TV character that I'd compare it to my connection with my dog, but you can tie emotions to anything, real or not.

You're right, I don't think you'll feel the same deep connections with tv characters compared to animals, but as you also agree, you can tie emotions to anything. Which is what I was trying to point out and ask people to think about - is emotional attachment to an animal really an acceptable criteria to measure whether they make it to heaven?

~ Regards, PA

Edited January 21, 2013 by Paranoid Android

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mysticwerewolf 283

My friend to the left passed in november from seizures we never figured out what caused them. He was 12 and a half. As an agnostic/athiest i know i will never see him again,or any of the others that passed through the years of my life, But i would be more than willing to go to hades, or hell or whatever you want to call it if i knew they would get into the heaven i don't believe in.

i watched the seizures rip him apart, and i watched his fear every time he came out of a seizure.and there was nothing I could do. and i can't even explain how much they helped solidify my unbelief. I am glad he no longer suffers but that is the best i can say.

edited to add

just posting this has me in tears again.

Edited January 21, 2013 by mysticwerewolf

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libstaK 6,399

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Hello Reality and all that is True
When Oxymoron was defined it was just for you

Tv characters do not likely have the same depth of impact on us, but nonetheless they do impact us. If they didn't, we wouldn't watch it.

I cried through all the Lassie movies but I never wonder if Lassie will be in heaven or that I would miss him/her if they weren't. I just don't see the connection. People can generally separate real people in their lives from emotional attachments to television characters. TBH though, I don't generally get that emotionally charged over television or actors and I stay clear of ongoing drama series they bore me to tears.

Since I believe that when we are in heaven we will be new creations in a new world with new bodies, I would not presume to say "for me, this is heaven and therefore that is what heaven will be like". My heaven at the moment will include lots of Star Wars, when I'm in heaven I'm not expecting to own Collectors merchandise from the original 1977 films.

Fair enough and I have thought of that, however atm I am the material me and what I have loved truly (living things) still lives in me every day, I don't think the evidence is so compelling against the idea that it bars me from looking forward to a reunion or the knowledge they are living a life in heaven at the very least at this time.

You're right, I don't think you'll feel the same deep connections with tv characters compared to animals, but as you also agree, you can tie emotions to anything. Which is what I was trying to point out and ask people to think about - is emotional attachment to an animal really an acceptable criteria to measure whether they make it to heaven?

~ Regards, PA

I'm not sure if you've ever loved an animal/pet - it is not an emotional attachment such as we experience with material things, it is empathy, compassion and gratitude for the gift of their being. If my pets were in heaven but I did not get to see them again, I would be ok with that too but I value them highly and think they do deserve to be there, likely more than me. My criteria has alot of depth in terms of why they would deserve this.

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ZaraKitty 771

I know the difference. I was commenting on the implication that because we have an emotional attachment to animals that therefore it would not be "heaven" if they weren't there. Whether the emotional attachment is as strong for a fictional character compared to an animal, the fact is that there is an emotional attachment. Anyone who's watched a tv show (or movie) and cried when something happened to the main character has displayed this emotional attachment.

Tv characters do not likely have the same depth of impact on us, but nonetheless they do impact us. If they didn't, we wouldn't watch it.

Since I believe that when we are in heaven we will be new creations in a new world with new bodies, I would not presume to say "for me, this is heaven and therefore that is what heaven will be like". My heaven at the moment will include lots of Star Wars, when I'm in heaven I'm not expecting to own Collectors merchandise from the original 1977 films.

You're right, I don't think you'll feel the same deep connections with tv characters compared to animals, but as you also agree, you can tie emotions to anything. Which is what I was trying to point out and ask people to think about - is emotional attachment to an animal really an acceptable criteria to measure whether they make it to heaven?

~ Regards, PA

I dunno, but by the sounds of this religion you can be a rapist and go to heaven. Forgivness seems to be key. I'd rather not go to heaven anyway.

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scowl 3,078

Unfortunately my GIF of Bart Simpson didn't show up under that quote. It's from a great scene in an early season of the Simpsons where kids in Sunday school are barraging the teacher with questions about heaven.

"Do kitties go to heaven?"

"No."

"Do cavemen go to heaven?"

"No!"

"Does a ventriloquist's dummy go to heaven?"

"The ventriloquist goes to heaven but the dummy doesn't."

Bart: "What about a robot... with a human brain?"

"I don't know! All these questions! Is a little blind faith too much to ask!?"

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regeneratia 1,554

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Paranoid Android 5,639

I cried through all the Lassie movies but I never wonder if Lassie will be in heaven or that I would miss him/her if they weren't. I just don't see the connection. People can generally separate real people in their lives from emotional attachments to television characters. TBH though, I don't generally get that emotionally charged over television or actors and I stay clear of ongoing drama series they bore me to tears.

A good sci-fi series can draw me in and get me involved with the lives of the characters. And just like you, I've never actually wondered if a character goes to heaven, it just came up when people floated the suggestion that would heaven really be "heaven" if it was without something we had an emotional connection to.

Fair enough and I have thought of that, however atm I am the material me and what I have loved truly (living things) still lives in me every day, I don't think the evidence is so compelling against the idea that it bars me from looking forward to a reunion or the knowledge they are living a life in heaven at the very least at this time.

As a Bible-believing Christian I can't find any reason to think that animals are in heaven. If you aren't fully invested in the Bible then you may very well come to a different understanding.

I'm not sure if you've ever loved an animal/pet - it is not an emotional attachment such as we experience with material things, it is empathy, compassion and gratitude for the gift of their being. If my pets were in heaven but I did not get to see them again, I would be ok with that too but I value them highly and think they do deserve to be there, likely more than me. My criteria has alot of depth in terms of why they would deserve this.

Yes, I've loved a pet. My dog (a Kelpie/Labrador/German Shepherd cross) was my companion for about 16 years before it passed away a few years back. I can still remember exactly what I was doing the night I found him dead. But will I see him in heaven? I can't justify it. Perhaps my mind can summon a recreation of my dog, in which case it would be the same animal, but I can't see it being a case where our pets literally end up in heaven.

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Paranoid Android 5,639

I dunno, but by the sounds of this religion you can be a rapist and go to heaven. Forgivness seems to be key. I'd rather not go to heaven anyway.

Anyone can enter heaven. Yes, even rapists if they are truly repentant. Repentance is the key, not forgiveness, though repentance leads to forgiveness so I can see why you would make the error (and for the record, repentance is far more than just saying "sorry" - many people don't realise or understand that).

I'd rather not go to heaven anyway.

Ultimately it's your choice. I don't know what you believe about the afterlife (or if you believe there even is one), but everyone needs to work out what they believe on their own. I wish you the best in your search.