So what? How is this different than how Russia thinks about workers from Central Asia or Moldova? Poland wants a buffer between it and Russia. It's never made any attempt to hide that fact. Russia meanwhile wants to maintain influence in its "near-abroad." "Can't we all just get along?"

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.—St. Isaac of Syria

We need Ukraine as much as Ukraine needs us. We have centuries of shared history, living in one homeland. Without Ukraine there would be no Poland as we know it now, and without Poland there would be no Ukraine either. They gave us eastern culture, we gave them western. At one time we were like a family, at the other like enemies. As long as we had not chicane, fight, colonise, or exterminate one another, we were living in a great country, dare I say first among the civilised, that both of our nations were willing to defend and make it prosper. History showed us that we are so bound to each other, that when we'll choose to go each one his own way, that path will lead us to nowhere.

Why don't we talk here in Slavic languages? It would be so interesting to read posts in Ukrainian, Belarusian and Polish? As a Russophone I can understand 100% Ukrainian and Belarusian. Not sure about Polish. But let's try?

Why don't we talk here in Slavic languages? It would be so interesting to read posts in Ukrainian, Belarusian and Polish? As a Russophone I can understand 100% Ukrainian and Belarusian. Not sure about Polish. But let's try?

We need Ukraine as much as Ukraine needs us. We have centuries of shared history, living in one homeland. Without Ukraine there would be no Poland as we know it now, and without Poland there would be no Ukraine either. They gave us eastern culture, we gave them western. At one time we were like a family, at the other like enemies. As long as we had not chicane, fight, colonise, or exterminate one another, we were living in a great country, dare I say first among the civilised, that both of our nations were willing to defend and make it prosper. History showed us that we are so bound to each other, that when we'll choose to go each one his own way, that path will lead us to nowhere.

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

I know, and they have a reason since 1919. Soviets gave Lithuanians Vilnus to make us capture it from Lithuanians, then we let them alone face to face with CCCP. I am not proud of it, nor am I proud of selling Ukraine to Soviets in 1921. What happened later with the three of us, is obvious I guess. Still I believe that it's a matter of good will from both sides to end this. So if any Ukrainian/Lithuanian reads this, I am sorry for what happened.

I know, and they have a reason since 1919. Soviets gave Lithuanians Vilnus to make us capture it from Lithuanians, then we let them alone face to face with CCCP. I am not proud of it, nor am I proud of selling Ukraine to Soviets in 1921. What happened later with the three of us, is obvious I guess. Still I believe that it's a matter of good will from both sides to end this. So if any Ukrainian/Lithuanian reads this, I am sorry for what happened.

They had reasons long before that. Lithuania got the shorter end of the deal. In 1387, Lithuania brought in more to the Union of Krev.and was forced to renounce its Orthodoxy. She was nothing but a fief by the union of Lublin.

Btw, if you don't mind me asking, are you an ethnic Pole?

« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 06:47:43 PM by ialmisry »

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

By Commonwealth, not by Poland. I can say that Poles were forced to renounce calvinism, cause this happened, too. Funny that you did not mention the Warsaw Confederation of 1573. May I ask you on which sources you are basing your opinion?

Best I can gather, is someone who has Polish as his language. I don't know of any other definition which has as much agreement.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

And Ukrainian is a language. Get used to that fact, and reconcile yourself to it.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 12:59:40 AM by ialmisry »

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Best I can gather, is someone who has Polish as his language. I don't know of any other definition which has as much agreement.

Then yes, I am an ethnic Pole.

And I feel myself being a Pole. Mickiewicz felt himself being Lithuanian and Pole, or Tuwim considering himself a Jew and a Pole. Nothing wrong or contrary in this. It was the nazis that showed things are different in their opinion. I'm not using argumentum ad hitlerum, just saying when the thinking pattern changed.

And I feel myself being a Pole. Mickiewicz felt himself being Lithuanian and Pole, or Tuwim considering himself a Jew and a Pole. Nothing wrong or contrary in this. It was the nazis that showed things are different in their opinion. I'm not using argumentum ad hitlerum, just saying when the thinking pattern changed.

And Ukrainian is a language. Get used to that fact, and reconcile yourself to it.

Apparently, you did not understand me...

I understood you.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

By Commonwealth, not by Poland. I can say that Poles were forced to renounce calvinism, cause this happened, too. Funny that you did not mention the Warsaw Confederation of 1573. May I ask you on which sources you are basing your opinion?

On a contrary. May I ask you again about the sources are basing your opinion on?

For one, the maps: the amount of territory that was alienated from the Grand Duchy of Lithuania to the Polish (a clause of the Union of Krewo) Crown. The Union of Lublin declared the Statute of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania void where it conflicted with the Union, as interpreted by the Polish szlachta, including replacing Ruthenian with Polish as the official language. Lithuanian died out at court after Grand Duke Alexander, married to the last Orthodox Grand Duchess of Lithuania. Those nobles who would not speak Polish and embrace the Latin church were reduced to commoners.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 01:02:08 AM by ialmisry »

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth