tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post338577155733948869..comments2015-08-01T17:46:03.950-04:00Comments on The Velo ORANGE Blog: Business NewsVelo Orangehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02835615331417822722noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-24168570842997938042008-02-02T16:54:00.000-05:002008-02-02T16:54:00.000-05:00Hello Chris,I was hoping to entice you into carryi...Hello Chris,<BR/><BR/>I was hoping to entice you into carrying Velosteel coaster brake hubs. They are made in Czechoslovakia under a license from Sachs. Kogswell was carrying them for a while, but Matthew is not very responsive. Interested? I know coaster brakes are not that sexy, but they are the original weather independent brake. Once you get used to not being able to backpedal, they make a huge amount of sense in the city.<BR/><BR/><BR/>BTW I made a tortured ply kayak inspired by your "Sea Kayaker article in the late 80's. I could not afford epoxy at the time because of college, so I used Liquid Nails, luan ply, and nylon string for the stitching (which I inlaid and left in). Most of the deck was a canvas drop cloth with a coat of latex paint, and I had a few scraps of ply to use as shear panels on the deck. It only lasted a few summers, but damn that thing was fast.Cøyøtenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-50185095274223576202007-11-15T07:21:00.000-05:002007-11-15T07:21:00.000-05:00The parts that we hold up as the aesthetic ideal w...The parts that we hold up as the aesthetic ideal were all produced by small 'cottage industry" type companies....Simplex...mafac...Huret....and even Nitto. Their ideal was not unlike the arts and crafts movement here in the US and the UK...honest products made in small quantities with intensive handwork. For me...and I am sure many others...that was part of the appeal of speccing those parts as opposed to Shimano, etc...The small companies imbued their parts with alot of soul. That soul is completely missing from anything made in China.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-90532332800827663352007-11-12T23:12:00.000-05:002007-11-12T23:12:00.000-05:00Sorry for the OT rant below but I can't let uninfo...Sorry for the OT rant below but I can't let uninformed mud be slung. Chris, your idea sounds great.<BR/><BR/>"(check out Ibex clothes for a more responsible, local, manufacture)."<BR/><BR/>Ibex wool is shipped from New Zealand and Europe to be manufactured in the US. Local??? This is done for quality reasons, the same reasons that Patagonia sources and manufactures where they do.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"For the past 20+ years Chouinard companies have imported almost all their products, never looking at helping our neighbors down south (Southern US and South America)."<BR/><BR/><BR/>Ever heard of the Patagonian Land Trust? Do your homework. You won't find another company more transparent in their practices. <BR/><BR/><BR/>"Time to think local!"<BR/><BR/><BR/>Time to think holistically. What is "local" if you do business all over the world? Does it not make sense to manufacture close to material sources? You grossly oversimplify the situation. Patagonia is currently tracking the carbon "footprint" of many of their more popular products. It is shattering many preconceived notions of what does the least harm.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-18330174139597389362007-11-12T21:23:00.000-05:002007-11-12T21:23:00.000-05:0010 years ago there were plenty of people complaini...10 years ago there were plenty of people complaining how poor quality the current Made in Taiwan bikes were, and that the Made in Japan bikes were much better built in 1987. And in the mid-late 80's I was around all sorts of crumudgeonly types who were reminiscing how much better the French bikes were back in the day.<BR/><BR/>Have you ever worked on a mid 70's peugeot?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-87376090730790093192007-11-12T18:06:00.000-05:002007-11-12T18:06:00.000-05:00Holland ruled the world in the 17th C. strictly as...Holland ruled the world in the 17th C. strictly as a a mercantile economy. They never had any resources at all to squander and produced very little hard goods of their own besides salted herring and cheese. That absolutely did not and does not matter, and never did. <BR/><BR/>The point being: you don't get ahead by waxing nostalgic about the fictitious good old days like the Nazis. Look, you don't like developing economies, don't support them. Personally, I'd much rather see my dollar go to someone in Taiwan than big industries in the US (like oil, timber, or war). How's that for OT? This is meant as half-sarcasm, like my earlier post. But only half.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>best,<BR/>mwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-66690463195736064992007-11-12T17:06:00.000-05:002007-11-12T17:06:00.000-05:00It's not cultural bias to hope that good products ...It's not cultural bias to hope that good products can be made here (and they can). <BR/>These products are somewhat retro-appealing in their looks, but they still have to have modern functionality. Anybody who taps into this sentiment will be sucessful. Just look at how Japanese m/c manufacturers build replica bikes of their favorites from years gone by but still have things like ABS, reliable eltrical components, etc. Or one could look at the success of the PT Cruiser, etc.<BR/>The problem with sending all of this money overseas is that the profit is not reinvested here. i too would pay more for American-made products, all else being equal, not because I'm waving the stars and stripes, but I'd like to see more people here working.<BR/>It seems we are losing our sovereignty to the Wal-Mart effect of the lowest price, period. What happens when we make nothing here? Eventually we will grow nothing here, and then all hard goods and food will come from overseas? I'll be dead before that happens completely, but I still don't want to see it happen.<BR/>This has nothing to do with the Nazi's, BTW. They killed a bunch of innocent people and also were mostly responsible for winning the space race. Some good and some bad, neither having anything to do with the other.<BR/>A lil off topic there, sorry 'bout that.<BR/>It's a great idea Chris, go for it.z-manhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09572343329703287829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-85988789703051387182007-11-12T10:44:00.000-05:002007-11-12T10:44:00.000-05:00I just have to say that the folks who keep insisti...I just have to say that the folks who keep insisting on old world values and domestic products make me nervous. Cultural bias is cultural bias, and it smells fishy. The Nazis were sentimental too, ya know. <BR/><BR/>Saying that this country has a tendency to do things one doesn't approve of, and therefore you're on a personal boycott against any product from that country . . . doesn't seem very enlightened to me. It reminds me of the Harley riders who would throw rice at a Honda rider in order to prove their point. Just dumb. Taiwan, Korea et al are the new Japan, and many other countries are just around the corner. I think if you like a product, and believe in a design, and are satisfied with the transaction as far as you can see, you should support that product--and that's especially the case with a personal operation designed with great care like VO. Basically I think Chris is a guy with a dream, and he's looking for a way to realize it. He's obviously not looking to make a quick buck in the highly lucrative market for Asian French-style bicycle components. (lol) But I admire him more and more as he goes along--his vision really does seem to have substance. <BR/><BR/>best,<BR/>michael whiteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-71856786539266412022007-11-12T08:58:00.000-05:002007-11-12T08:58:00.000-05:00Chris,How would this be different from the existin...Chris,<BR/>How would this be different from the existing Velo Orange parts that are VO branded and made just for you? Or would those products become your core VO Imports offfering, and then expand on it.<BR/><BR/>I for one think this is a great idea. In fact, looking at Rivendell, VO, Kogswell, etc so much the last few months, made me want to start my own sort of mail-order company offering really practical parts with classic aesthetic for regular people. The only thing is I have no money or any business experience. I even have a good name, but again, no idea how to get started.<BR/><BR/>don't mean to invite myself along but... can I come work for you? I want in on this.<BR/><BR/>Seriously.<BR/><BR/>-Davedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11777627222904903651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-13885110596909413702007-11-11T21:04:00.000-05:002007-11-11T21:04:00.000-05:00Just some last thoughts on the ideas of bicycle di...Just some last thoughts on the ideas of bicycle distribution. I noticed that Phil Wood has been in business for a very long time. His distribution is well established. It seems just about any quality shop or wheel builder can get Phil hubs and BB's. And IMO that is a good thing. I'm sure there are many small guys out there such as LeVel components and the like could use a good international distribution channel. <BR/><BR/>In the end it's not to support cheap crappy made copies of established products, but to bring about the opportunity of new innovative and high quality manufacturers to the end customer. Most well established shops seem to buy everything from one or two major distributors such as QBP and the like. So when they are asked about some product they can't get via their normal distribution channel the usually try to avoid getting those items. <BR/><BR/>I don't think we need to see any more poorly made Asian components. It seems the industry is overflowing with crappy snf poorly made yet overpriced bicycles with obviously high dealer margins. I would like to see the industry move away from that. I like supporting domestic manufacturers who turn out high quality. And I'm hoping to see more of those guy pop up up and get good distribution and support by people who love their bicycles as much as I obviously do.Phillip Franklinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-32319231232592006932007-11-11T20:11:00.000-05:002007-11-11T20:11:00.000-05:00"If the superb Thinkpad notebook I'm writing this ..."If the superb Thinkpad notebook I'm writing this on can be made in China, they should be able to produce a pretty good bike stem."<BR/><BR/>I work for a tech company that up to now has exclusively bought IBM ThinkPads because of their reliability. The last batch came after after the Lenovo takeover, however, and according to the head of the IT department, "They've been nothing but trouble. The quality control's gone down the tubes." He said they were the last ThinkPads he'd buy. <BR/><BR/>No, a bike stem isn't a computer, but the conclusion to be drawn is pretty clear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-56481271858855552692007-11-11T13:33:00.000-05:002007-11-11T13:33:00.000-05:00I agree with so many points of view here that it s...I agree with so many points of view here that it seems almost impossible to say anything of worth. But I'll try.<BR/><BR/>Being new to this whole cyclo-touring thing, but embracing it wholeheartedly, I may not have the most perspective on it as a whole. But I agree that something must be done to improve the quality of products that are available, while maintaining a feasible price point for those who cannot afford an expensive product. MKS pedals are an excellent example; I got two years of heavy use out of my GR-9s before they cracked at the pedal/clip interface. But they only cost me $25. I dearly love the look of the T.A. pedals, but $100-plus for a pedal that I'm going to beat the crap out of seems silly. Because when I do break it (and I will), I wouldn't want to shell out that same amount again. <BR/><BR/>Already for me, Velo-Orange has established a solid middle ground for products of this nature. Done right, cycle camping can be horribly expensive for most; a good rack is necessary, as well as bags, saddles, fenders, etc. I think that Chris made an excellent decision in manufacturing and selling the VO fenders. I can't afford $80 fenders. But I can afford to spend $30 on fenders, and another hour polishing them if I was so inclined. His fenders are right between steel Honjos and plastic SKS fenders (but closer to the SKS in price).<BR/><BR/>The only danger I see in the establishment of a VO import company is an unwanted distance between cyclists and the company opening up. Not intentionally, of course, but as a by-product of the increase in the company's business. Velo-Orange has been able to make fantastic products of it's own design, but the biggest obstacle is still the time it takes to get such products made. VO is simply too small to have the kind of clout that a larger cycle company might have (No disrespect meant here Chris!). With an increase in size/product orders/customer base, that product development time may be shortened to bring improvements and innovative products to the US market (which is currently obsessed with racing for some reason). <BR/><BR/>I think that "VO Imports" is a fine idea, but that it must be allowed to mature slowly. There is no sense in taking leaps and bounds forward, only to discover that you've leaped along the wrong path, and have to retrace your steps, sometimes back to the beginning. Good businesses does not just expand to do more business. They satisfy the needs of their customers while maintaining the ideals that first brought them there. Velo-Orange has done a wonderful job of that.Jonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09064928365294341750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-49803383708063191682007-11-11T10:11:00.000-05:002007-11-11T10:11:00.000-05:00Chris,glad to hear you are growing--obviously ther...Chris,<BR/>glad to hear you are growing--obviously there is currently a desire for classic-style cycle gear. I would like to weigh in too on the importing question. I worry that in the drive to make old world-style parts, and make them cheaply, you will end up as the Restoration Hardware of bikes. Inherent in the beauty of that old bicycle stuff is the fact that it was produced on a small scale, using appropriate technology, and was produced for people who had less disposable income and thus HAD to buy better quality. While I understand that with the exception of perhaps Wald, there is little medium-range bicycle manufacturing occuring in North America, merely bringing a bunch of frenchie-style stuff over on a boat, stuff made by people who do not have the opportunity to use their own products, to a population of mostly middle aged, middle income North Americans, doesn't seem right. Returning to the furniture analogy, there is nothing classy about a factory-produced 'Morris' chair. <BR/>And I don't know if a Chinese-made Rando-style bike would be any different.<BR/>M BurdgeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-34835870627678408412007-11-11T08:16:00.000-05:002007-11-11T08:16:00.000-05:00In an ideal world, Huret and Simplex and all the o...In an ideal world, Huret and Simplex and all the other classic European firms would still be with us and producing top-notch components (we can forget about the whole plastic-derailleur thing). That's no longer the case, however, so hats off to Velo Orange for working hard to find -- or create! -- high-quality, stylish components and make them available to all of us.<BR/><BR/>That said, I do everything I can to not buy goods made in mainland China. As discussed, it's essential for consumers to choose responsibly when purchasing goods or, for an importer, when deciding where to source them. Velo Orange has always stressed high quality over low price, and I would hope that for VO Imports, social responsibility would be central to what makes something "high quality." It's not just the goods themselves, but who made them, under what conditions, and at what environmental cost. For me, Chinese-made goods don't pass the test, and I'll happily pay double for something not made in China; any savings just aren't worth it.Leightonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03977908085693494452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-37945542422943287462007-11-11T04:41:00.000-05:002007-11-11T04:41:00.000-05:00Those D2 shoes are so ugly ... just like most of t...Those D2 shoes are so ugly ... just like most of the racing costumes I see on way too many wannabe Lance Armstrongs plying the roads of the north San Diego coast. I understand that some geeky looking Lycra outfit along with very expensive plastic shoes may shave seconds off your Tour of France time ... but most people really ride for relaxation, exercise or commuting ... right??? And another thing there are too many bodies out there that should not be sporting Lycra spandex .... sorry off topic ... but hey I did not recommend the need for $600 shoes. Now that's really off topic. Right??? Why do people think you need to wear those Lycra spandex costumes to enjoy riding your bike? Other than Grant Peterson and a few others I seldom hear people talk about this horrible fashion statement. Sorry if I offended anyone.Phillip Franklinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-71172734253011986912007-11-11T02:07:00.000-05:002007-11-11T02:07:00.000-05:00I've got to agree. Don't source from China or Indi...I've got to agree. Don't source from China or India. I'm interested in old world craftsmanship by artisans. I'll spend more to support products from companies who's ethos I agree with. I ran in to this problem just recently with Rapha. I was sold on their PR and was ready to buy a few items from them. Then I found out that while some of their items are made in Europe, several items are made in the far east. They are a British company so I expect them to engage other British companies. Since I can't tell which of their products comes from where, I'm not buying any. It's a shame too, they have very nicely styled products and they stood to make quite a few pounds from me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-56556751766616036482007-11-11T00:43:00.000-05:002007-11-11T00:43:00.000-05:00I love yah Chris but man, Yvon Chouinard is not a ...I love yah Chris but man, Yvon Chouinard is not a perfect role model (check out Ibex clothes for a more responsible, local, manufacture). For the past 20+ years Chouinard companies have imported almost all their products, never looking at helping our neighbors down south (Southern US and South America). Stop and think of all the pollution your flights back and forth to China will create, the pollution of shipping all your products half way around the world. <BR/><BR/>Time to think local!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-18651215262592472142007-11-11T00:31:00.000-05:002007-11-11T00:31:00.000-05:00I agree that it would be very nice if you could ha...I agree that it would be very nice if you could have more US-made products. We certainly don't need more Chinese products!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-45855631097555748062007-11-10T23:51:00.000-05:002007-11-10T23:51:00.000-05:00Good luck with VO imports, I think it will do well...Good luck with VO imports, I think it will do well. The company will fill a large gap in the bike industry. I am in the bike industry, and I can personally vouch for the lackluster quality of Chinese made products (broken carbon fiber components stuffed with chinese newspaper) just one example, list goes on. Products from Taiwan are of a much better quality i.e. quality control is better, treatment of employees, and theft. There are presently a lot of French type bikes made in India that are of decent quality (better quality than China) that would make a better cost feasible solution than China. I am not a flag waver, just giving you a bike industry perspective and many reasons not to manufacture products in China. I'm looking forward to your new business venture. As of current statistics 90% of the wealth in China is held by 1% of the population. Where is the middle class?C.F.G Wheelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-67237959959660760152007-11-10T19:54:00.000-05:002007-11-10T19:54:00.000-05:00Question is, who could make this stuff in the US? ...Question is, who could make this stuff in the US? There just aren't many component makers, unless you count things like the Shinburger pedal :)<BR/>http://www.marresi.com Are an Italian company that make some really nice leather shoes. Import time?<BR/><BR/>DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-929072002654749862007-11-10T18:34:00.000-05:002007-11-10T18:34:00.000-05:00Chris -I encourage you to pursue this.VO offers a ...Chris -<BR/><BR/>I encourage you to pursue this.<BR/><BR/>VO offers a pretty much unique collection of well made, attractive, and functional stuff, for much less $$$ than other, similar vendors. Your stuff also has an artisanal quality that the Nashbars and QBPs of the world do not. IMO there is a market for that.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I would pay a premium for US made vs Chinese or Taiwan, but you gotta do what you gotta do.<BR/><BR/>On the topic of shoes, all of my bicycle riding is functional -- commuting, going to the store, etc -- and I wear sneakers or leather clogs when I ride. Just a data point.<BR/><BR/>What I'd really like is a nice-looking, useful mirror that mounts on upright handlebars, but not in the bar end. I want my mirror on the bike, not on my head.<BR/><BR/>Good luck!!russellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10545870152085789929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-44482545376515515122007-11-10T17:31:00.000-05:002007-11-10T17:31:00.000-05:00Van's, made for skateboarding, are relatively stif...Van's, made for skateboarding, are relatively stiff.gunner bergnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-39390210206912470122007-11-10T16:13:00.000-05:002007-11-10T16:13:00.000-05:00Bata used to sell a canvas cycling shoe with a sti...Bata used to sell a canvas cycling shoe with a stiffened rubber sole. I got a pair at Nashbar in 1987 for about $18.00. They worked fine for 60-75 mile days. <BR/>They didn't need to be customized or require orthotics.<BR/><BR/>Does anyone know where to get a Dr.Scholl's style insert that would stiffen a pair of low profile sneakers (e.g. ADIDAS Sambas or Stan Smiths, Converse Chuck Taylors)?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-75129402549045842062007-11-10T16:00:00.000-05:002007-11-10T16:00:00.000-05:00Shoes.... man, what is up with cycling shoes? Is ...Shoes.... man, what is up with cycling shoes? Is there some reason the cycling shoe industry thinks that we want to wear dementing bowling shoes?<BR/><BR/>This is probably not really appropriate for the discussion of a wholesale business- or maybe it is, maybe it'd be necessary to have a broad retail channel to make it feasible- but good cycling shoes that are toe-clip friendly and don't stick out like a sore thumb if you wear them with slacks at the office would be great.<BR/><BR/>In terms of the pedals, TA lookalikes would be great but without the overly tall cages that lift your foot so high above the pedal spindle. Such height is needed only to provide clearance for cleats, but with regular shoes it makes for poorer ergonomics.<BR/><BR/>To me, the min quetion about starting a wholesale business is whether there are enough currently unavailable rando/cyclotourist/commuter/etc products to actually make starting such a business feasible? I have no idea. Or would you have to also sell a broad range of brake cables, cassettes, etc.?Tim Macnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-83634976451887136072007-11-10T14:07:00.000-05:002007-11-10T14:07:00.000-05:00Yeah, there is definitely a wtf! factor to the pri...Yeah, there is definitely a wtf! factor to the price of those shoes--but they ARE custom made/fit. A recent set of orthotic inserts for my street shoes set me back 300 bucks. For two hundred more you could have a companion pair of cycling shoes.Lesli Lhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13008748945065043600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24415034.post-312351963327135882007-11-10T13:51:00.000-05:002007-11-10T13:51:00.000-05:00somewhat off topic...I looked at the d2 shoes & th...somewhat off topic...I looked at the d2 shoes & the base price is, um...$595...wtf?!? these shoes better do a lot more than cover my feet.this one guynoreply@blogger.com