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However, this bypasses the incentive for engaging in gameplay, namely goals and rewards. If those are bought by money, I don't see any reason to interact with the game at all and it causes me not to play the game.

You can buy gems with in-game gold, and if you are going to play a lot you will probably make a decent amount of money in game, so why spend real money to get those things when you can just get them with in game gold.

This really depends on how popular buying in game gold with gems is for people who don't have much time to play and, by extension, how the gem>gold<gem market shakes out, but in theory it sounds interesting.

Originally Posted by Dayblade

A cash shop is ever changing and there are all kinds of helpful game items it could offer. I'm sure all kinds of new items will appear in the game and store after retail. Go look at other mmo cash stores, while GW2 may never sell consets or other buffs (or will they?) they can make a LOT of crafting/ingredient items and WHAM your out of space for all this cool stuff you want to collect. No problem really, just hop over to the Gem store and get yourself a bag that will hold that stuff and fit in your inventory, just xxx gems, etc.

Bags can drop in game if we're talking about the same thing. I assume you meant storage tabs.

The question really comes down to whether most people feel the game provides us with a reasonable amount of storage. Unless there are only a very small number of crafting items and ingredients (like what would fit on a materials tab ala GW1), I don't think most reasonable people would expect enough storage for regular PVE experience and being able to hold every type collectible drop in the game. Part of RPGs is having to decide what to keep and what to merch.

I think cash shops will always annoy some people. I must say I was greatly concerned about some of the items in the GW2 cash shop, but dyes and minis can be traded or sold if they're duplicates, and mystic keys drop in game (even if rarely) so there IS an alternative to buying them. In this BWE my cash shop fears were alleviated. I personally think this is the most player friendly and fair cash shop I've ever encountered in a game. And honestly, what more could you ask of a company who's primary goal must be to turn a profit?

snip.. Anet's cash shop philosophy changed from "we're making money to make great games" to "we're making games to make money". And no, that's not the same thing at all.

(Great post but sniped it to highlight my point.)

This is what I have seen in many mmo shops. Things get designed to make you want or "need" to buy from shop.

Originally Posted by BladeDVD

You can buy gems with in-game gold, and if you are going to play a lot you will probably make a decent amount of money in game, so why spend real money to get those things when you can just get them with in game gold.

Yes, you can get Gems with gold by playing the game, but that is grinding, because the price for a single gem will be a lot higher then what you are seeing in Beta. Go price store points by trading game "currency" in a mmo that uses that instead of Gems and see how long it would take to actually get enough to buy anything.

Originally Posted by BladeDVD

Bags can drop in game if we're talking about the same thing. I assume you meant storage tabs.

No, this is not at all what I am talking about. I am talking about a bag you buy in the store that ONLY holds CERTAIN items. (say 50 to 100 different CERTAIN items) that goes into a "TAB-Bag" I am talking about gaming companies "creating a inventory problem" then selling a solution.

This cash shop is not the same as GW1. You can already buy additional inventory tabs for gems (real money, gems don't drop, someone paid for them) and additional bank space. These will be needed or at least wanted by players because there will be a lot of "collectables" to get. That is a BIG step toward the mmo cash store philosophies of today.

Yes I don't have to collect all the niceties that are offered to me as drops or other rewards. I can let them all lay on the ground (or run to town every 30 mins to sell) and not participate in a 3rd of the game. Wow, what a great option...

This is only a example of how a cash shop can make you feel left out if you don't buy the "non critical" things it has for sale. I have SEEN many more tactics from stores but I don't like typing that much.
(p.s. I don't think keys for locked boxes will be drops after beta, they will be sold)

These cash shops have been said to be the future of mmo gaming and for good reason. They are cash cows, people will buy these things.
A lot of thought is put into "manipulation" of the buyer by many of the gaming companies. I don't mind seeing this in a FREE mmo but it does bother me to see it in a Anet product.

Do I think Anet is like them? I hope not but right now it looks like that is the path they are choosing.

You must have played a different game then me then. Storage tabs and character slots are all sold on the GW1 cash shop. Not sure what you mean.

You can already buy additional inventory tabs for gems (real money, gems don't drop, someone paid for them) and additional bank space. These will be needed or at least wanted by players because there will be a lot of "collectables" to get.

Of course they are. There will be packrats that will store every single item they find, to the point where no ammount of storage will be enough. Even with GW1, after Anet gave 4 extra storage tabs for free people still managed to not find it enough (that's what, 80 extra slots? Yeah, kk).

You can't argue that whatever XX number of slots are needed because you can always need more. What should be found in a balance for a good enough ammount of slots that players can get their hands off. For example, GW2 will offer, for free (albeit with a lot of work since you'll need 400 in certain crafting disciplines) 20-slot bags, which are the best bags you can have. You can have 5 bag slots, also for free (up to 8, with the cash shop), so each character can walk around with at least 100 different items.

If you're starting out you can have 36 item slots with the possiblity, through events and early crafting, to raise it to 40 and 56 respectively.

Also, you can craft special bags that help you with inventory management. Better yet, you can send gathered materials straight to your bank from anywhere in the world. That's a huge step forward in assuring that you don't need to break your gaming experience every 5 minutes.

That is a BIG step toward the mmo cash store philosophies of today.

No, it is not a huge step forward. Stop trying to dramatize the issue.

Yes I don't have to collect all the niceties that are offered to me as drops or other rewards. I can let them all lay on the ground (or run to town every 30 mins to sell) and not participate in a 3rd of the game. Wow, what a great option...

Lol, kk.

(p.s. I don't think keys for locked boxes will be drops after beta, they will be sold)

Way to be critical. So you've seen a game mechanic in-game and assume it won't be the same case at release? That stupid logic, where is she???!!!

These cash shops have been said to be the future of mmo gaming and for good reason. They are cash cows, people will buy these things.
A lot of thought is put into "manipulation" of the buyer by many of the gaming companies. I don't mind seeing this in a FREE mmo but it does bother me to see it in a Anet product.

Agreed on the point on bags .. Offer less space intentionally so that people are somewhat forced to buy the bags.. Else it would be inconvenient and frustrating.

Tapatalking

Aww common, the amount of available bag space is not much different from most other MMO's. The bank space might be sparse but the sperate tabs for crafting mats and mini's more then make up for that. I am willing to see conspiracy as much as anyone, but id like to stay with the facts first and foremost.

I guess it depends on how easily you can get full-sized bags without using gems or trading gold for gems. If you can craft them easily by level 80, for example, then all you're buying is the ability to get the bags earlier than others.

I guess it depends on how easily you can get full-sized bags without using gems or trading gold for gems. If you can craft them easily by level 80, for example, then all you're buying is the ability to get the bags earlier than others.

A Superior rune of Holding did cost some gold coins IIRC. A minor Rune of Holding did cost a few silver (I am pretty sure the price of 62 copper the wiki lists right now is wrong), but you need to be of level 75 to craft a 10 slot bag with it.

Gorani's Guild Wars legacy & the Kurzick Poet NPC in GW1
* Member of [GWO] & The Zoo Crew * Everything about the Elementalist on the forums *
Gaile Gray: "See Gorani's post, I note several ideas that might be doable and that seem very logical."

1) Scaling down still gives you an advantage but it's a small advantage. Level 30 with elite, I was getting owned by level 11-15 content if I was careless.
2) XP boost gives you a leveling speed advantage regardless. I'm OK with that provided the game isn't made grindy just so people buy the XP boosts. But XP boosts existed in GW1 and I didn't mind (used some too for survivors).

1.)GW1 has them as loot
2.)GW1 has them for both in-game gold and item trade.
the GW2 versions are just buy-to-win items which is BTW not ok, it should be ether in-game only or removed entirely.

now i think that everything cosmetic like dye's, costumes and such should be account wide, every single boost should be removed and advantages in costumes should be removed.
keep it cosmetic or don't have it at all, if you go on giving advantages you could just as much add it in GW1.
what would you do if the lunatic court costume all of a sudden gave +3 fast casting or raiment of the lich gave +3 on soul reaping, i don't think anyone is gonna like this.
they should also be account-wide only for the price we always pay, even if you suggest 1/4 per character it is still way to expensive for just one character.

the key's should be removed from the store and drop-rate should be a little bit more common, bag slots should not be locked at all as long as the bags are balanced in price.
a bank portal should not even be there since it does give you an advantage, traveling trough the world with real money and such.
perfect salvage kit and the minis pack should only be in-game, the mini pack can always be just a mini per X gold but such things are just shameful to even ask money for.

the store should be for cosmetics and premium services only, it's what GW1 has always had and it should remain so in GW2.