I have a hard time thinking that Starfinder sold at "Pathfinder levels", so from this we might discern the motivation for a 2nd edition Pathfinder.

Given this I think we can expect Pathfinder 2.0 to at least match or surpass Starfinder at launch, as fantasy most often sell better than SF. Then it becomes a question of staying power. As always with ICv2 ranking, the next one is always more interesting than the current one.

I have a hard time thinking that Starfinder sold at "Pathfinder levels", so from this we might discern the motivation for a 2nd edition Pathfinder.

Fastest moving product for Paizo ever at Gen Con 2017. I suspect you'll find it's just a blip - normally the new hotness hits positions #4 and #5 for a quarter then drops off, leaving #1-3 as D&D, PF, and SW. Because it's Paizo, this time it hit position #2. I'm willing to bet anything Pathfinder will be back at #2 next time -- but we'll see!

This isn't as meaningful as folks are making it out to be. Starfinder is a new game pushed by a big company with a big installed base of a similar game. As right now it's selling the core rulebooks to the existing Pathfinder customers, which are always the biggest sellers, this isn't indicative of its staying power.

I'd gather that it falls behind the Star Wars and Star Trek RPGs, which sell to the base of Star Wars and Star Trek fans, which are surely more numerous than Pathfinder players and are already on supplements. Beyond that, I don't know. I'm expecting an economic downturn in the next year or two, which won't bode well for RPGs if the last one is any indication (though the previous downturn coincided with the D20 boom, so that might be meaningless).

But Star Wars and Star Treck are the most famous (no-RPG) sci-fi franchises. They are a "safe bet". And the sci-fi is a genre what get old very fast. A ten years child would be surprised when he watchs a old sci-fi movie from decades ago, and she miss a lot of modern things, for example the mobiles and tablets.

I have a hard time thinking that Starfinder sold at "Pathfinder levels", so from this we might discern the motivation for a 2nd edition Pathfinder.

Given this I think we can expect Pathfinder 2.0 to at least match or surpass Starfinder at launch, as fantasy most often sell better than SF. Then it becomes a question of staying power. As always with ICv2 ranking, the next one is always more interesting than the current one.

New core rulebooks/ games do sell quite well, and Starfinder was a solid hit at GenCon.

However, for most of the Fall, Starfinder only had a single book, compared to the dozens of Pathfinder books. Starfinder beating Pathfinder does mean that the combines sales of their back catalogue of two or three dozen accessories and splatbooks were selling less than a single core rulebook.

Honestly, Pathfinder has probably been losing sales for a couple years. It's an older game that is only slowly attracting new players. That it continued to hold onto the #2 position really says more about the gulf between it and the games below.

If anything, this points to a good reason for a second edition of Pathfinder. There may be diminishing returns in core book sales, over ten years it may be approaching a saturation point. So core PF sales are smaller than those interested in PF/SF because of that long history of sales, where a new edition can tap into it again. And unlike the pushback when 3.5 came out, a ten year run of the original won't be considered premature.

I have to say, speaking as someone who has two groups playing Starfinder now (I even convinced my D&D 5E regulars to switch over to it to give me a much needed break from straight fantasy) that I am happy it did so well so far. It's a fun game, and a kind of weird gonzo design energy to it that bodes well for PF 2.0 I hope.

Given that Star Wars, despite being such a big IP, has an RPG that requires funny dice and Star Trek is (imo, ymmv) something of a fading and mismanaged property with an RPG that I suspect is only resonating with the hardcore fans who don't feel like they've been disenfranchised over the last three movies, that it's not too surprising a new Paizo title carves its way to #2.

I just wonder if you combined the sells of PF and SF they out sell StarDungeons and StarDragons or not.

Well, if you did not depend on just Icv2 lists and Amazon ratings and could actually get sales figures for WotC D&D vs Paizo Pathfinder en Starfinder... Paizo does a TON of direct sales, WotC does very, very little. ICv2 only does FLGS and doesn't ask for hard numbers, just gut feeling... And seeing how many fanboys are actually running FLGS, it's such an undependable chart!

Reviews

Wizards of the Coast is promoting Ghosts of Saltmarsh as an adventure book with a setting and rule supplements so since I already did a spoiler-free review of the book overall, let's take a closer look at the adventures it contains. While I avoid significant spoilers, be aware that broad information about each adventure is mentioned.

The Shadowrun Sixth World Beginner Box due for release at Origins this June will be our first look at the new edition of the now 30-year-old Shadowrun game system. This new edition promises to be a more streamlined experience for new players while still satisfying veterans, but does it live up to that promise?

Ghosts of Saltmarsh will make Greyhawk fans happy without losing newer D&D 5th Edition players. Billed as a supplement for nautical adventures, it's a mix of new rules for ships and sea travel, adventures and supplemental material for any coastal campaign.

Sequels can be a tricky thing to handle, especially when they promise a darker, edgier tone. Despite its much gloomier tone, however, Things from the Flood manages to avoid difficult-second-album syndrome with a game that neatly blends weird sci-fi mysteries and teenage drama, though sometimes it’s hard to tell which aspect is the most dangerous and unsettling.

Gangs kill and terrorize Victory City overwhelming law and order. Super villains run amok. Become a vigilante and strike back using violence to fight violence in the dark setting nicknamed Vigilante City.