The high damage doesn't help when their growth is almost half of other cores, which make their dmg/week below average. In fact, only melee creature that does less damage is Preatorian. PRAETORIAN! Add there that Cerberi has clearly lowest HP of all cores. They suckkkk...

Lowest HP should definitely give them most damage/week. So add damage to them and they will be fine as the glass cannons they are and even more deadly in combo with Ravagers ____________
Our consciousness should be global, our footprint local.

It depends on how you use them. I've had them kill 3 enemy stacks with a single attack, because they happened to be adjacent to eachother.

Also, considering they have unlimited retaliations, slapping Reinforcements on them, coupled with Counterstrike III, makes for a killing machine. I am even ignoring Life Drain as an option, because you usually don't need it with Reinforcements slapped on it.

Yeah, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how to prevent ugly Hell Hounds/Cerberi losses after the first attack of all kinds of shooters and melee creatures with strike-and-return + no retaliation. Oh yeah, and vs. human players with 3+ brain cells.
Anyone?

Quote:Yeah, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how to prevent ugly Hell Hounds/Cerberi losses after the first attack of all kinds of shooters and melee creatures with strike-and-return + no retaliation. Oh yeah, and vs. human players with 3+ brain cells.
Anyone?

Not much you can do except maybe reinforcement. or teleport / summon something on their shooter right off the bat.

Cerebus can do a ton of damage if they aren't focused on though yes, but that first part can be quiteeee a problem. I almost always reinforce Cerebus if only because all the range guys will shoot the puppies. they're a weird unit really , I sware I've had fights where they took out the whole army themself with nothing but life drain but also fights where all 300+ of them died before touching the enemies (usually in seige though)

As a whole, Inferno is weird but interesting faction to play, the Gating ability is growing on me after intially thinking they completely suck, the tactical implication is very significant.

In short, Inferno should be played more like Necropolis, aka slooooow, despite having several very offesnive natured units your specailty is COMPLETELY outclassed by everyone else for the first few rounds, HOWEVER if you get 3+ gated stacks out the odds began to turn to your favor considerablly. because the gated creatures themself can get luck hits too which means that Infernos SHOULD be able to gate big stacks just about every round after the initial phase.

So in short, they tend to really suck against Stronghold (who'll bash their brains in before they get enough stacks out) and usually Sanctuary (again, Kappas and Kirin will devastate you before your gates are useful) but could be quite good against slower factions like Necropolis and to a lesser extend Haven. (well Haven sucks the most right now due to Imperial Griffins not working)

Also, Inferno is clearly the best faction in siege, both attacking and defending, in this situation Gating's advantage becomes very apparant when you can take you time to gate some out.

Some tips, Gating Ravagers are usually very useful, Taunting Presence espeically when gated out is soooo good.

Breed Mother is annoyingly bad though, they do horrific damage DESPITE them actually getting a skill that buff their output (a free reinforcement cast on them) while Lilims do not STILL they do a lot less damage. EVEN when in full range, hell I cast storm arrows on them they STILL do less damage than Lilims, horrible. their only saving grace is that mana leech can be quite useful especially when you use a might hero who might run out of MPs.

Quote:As a whole, Inferno is weird but interesting faction to play, the Gating ability is growing on me after intially thinking they completely suck, the tactical implication is very significant.

Exactly, something I've said before. I've used Gating for purposes of blocking shooters as well as just blocking enemy walkers - enemy walkers can't cross over squares where a Gate is forming. Delay placing a Gate till as late in the turn as you can, because the Gate will appear pretty soon after the start of the next (this gives enemies less opportunity to kill off the forming Gate); or place it as soon as you can, so you can start building up the energy for the next one.

Furthermore, Gated creatures can soak up retaliations, so your real units can then dish out damage without punishment.

Quote:As a whole, Inferno is weird but interesting faction to play, the Gating ability is growing on me after intially thinking they completely suck, the tactical implication is very significant.

Exactly, something I've said before. I've used Gating for purposes of blocking shooters as well as just blocking enemy walkers - enemy walkers can't cross over squares where a Gate is forming. Delay placing a Gate till as late in the turn as you can, because the Gate will appear pretty soon after the start of the next (this gives enemies less opportunity to kill off the forming Gate); or place it as soon as you can, so you can start building up the energy for the next one.

Furthermore, Gated creatures can soak up retaliations, so your real units can then dish out damage without punishment.

Also, Neutrals are often fooled into chasing around gates and not going after you army, letting you just shoot the fish in a barrell so to speak.

Yes, and gating things like Ravagers and Tormenters are obviously very good, the thing with Gating is that it's almost ALWAYS more worthwhile to gate the higher lvl creatures, using Gate 2 on Cerebus will give you the same # of dogs ad Gate 1, and the # of creature you get is based on the strength of your entire army, given that you usually have more week's worth of lower level creature , this also means you'll often get similar or even bigger stacks of elite / champion creatures than what you actually have, very useful.

The key though is obviously that you need to not get your brains beat in in the first few turn, which is often a problem against strongholds.

Also, Gate 4 is really strong, instantly comming out and usually a big stack, using it on pitlord is insanely scary.

I personally found that inferno are the most broken againts AI, it's the easiest faction againts them, even againts sanctuary which in player hand can quickly froze those pit lords to death without dispel in their arsenal.

Againts the current AI, Pit lords are one of the best one stack army, if not the best out there. Stone skin, regen, life drain and taunt are all you need, damage increasing fire spell can help too.

Just wait at turn 1, then get close in the middle of everything, cast taunt, watch most of your enemy creatures attack it with puny damage.

Then watch as its retaliation turn them on one another and damage them with very insane fire damage.

Unless AI doesn't forget about dispel, it's too broken for me, even players that forget about it will also become toy for those pit lords (not all factions though), although it won't happen if they duel it with his/her champion creature, but the chance is too low for them to predict this. Well, the radiant glory might screw the one stack army sometimes because of her auto dispel.

Perhaps the multi targets retaliation of the pit lords should not stack with life drain, it's too insane againts enemy without dispel that have slow creature. Because the multi target retaliation often cast the confusion effect on most attackers, that alone already a problem.

Quote:Yeah, I am on that map now, the final one. But come on, is anything even going on?

After clearing the underground after about a week or so, I went up and got attacked once by the Red Templar (who funny enough flies the purple banner, since the red one is mine ), then he holed up in his castle and hasn't come out with any Hero since. All the rest is neutral, so I am currently just roaming the country side, destroying only neutral armies, unthreatened. I have to say it's a bit boring this way ...

By the way, that map is also ideal for farming Dynasty weapons. If you move to the left of where you start, you find a pack of Fire Elementals guarding two treasure chests and an artifact, within your 1-day movement's reach. The artifact is random and can be anything - including dynasty weapons. Furthermore, your starting army is so powerful already, that the Fire Elementals are trivial. Simply by running up to see which artifact was up and restarting the map if it wasn't what I was looking for, I managed to collect 5 dynasty weapons that I didn't already have in around 15 to 20 minutes - including Batu's Totem, the dynasty weapon you're actually supposed to purchase for a lot of Dynasty Tokens at Platinum level ...

Quote:Maybe it's a stupid question, but if I chose for my hero the skill "archery I" which boosts ranged attacks for 6% - does this apply to the Succubus/Lilums too? (since their ranged is fire bolts (magic attack)) Or should I take the skill in that increases fire magic power?

Regarding the hellhounds, I use stoneskin on them to boost their defence, but they are still dying too fast. Any other suggestions on how to use them well?

Yes it does boost their ranged attacks. Donīt use the dogs until near the end of the map, or in certain situations.

I need some help on the first mission, any advice on how to beat Xana with Azkaal? I can't seem to win, the Cerberus hits very hard and so does the Lilim+Succubus combo.

Both of Azkaal's normal attack and his spell are fire-based. So, make sure you spread his mark (+200% fire damage) to all foes. Then, use his spell attack in between marking the enemies. I use Azkaal's abilities in following order :
round 1 : marking Juggernaut, marking Cerberi,
round 2 : marking Lilim #1, fire spell,
round 3 : marking Lilim #2, marking Breeder
round 4 : marking two last units (forgot their name)

During marking these units, make sure to teleport all round. If it is possible, park in front of shooter (I got lucky the AI line up Breeder, Lilim 1 and Lilim 2 in the same corner, so I can get all three ) and attack them. Whenever the Juggernaut or Cerberi come close, teleport to the other corner of the battle field.

After you spread the mark, all of Azkaal's spell and attacks will do double damage to the units. Furthermore, his retaliation also fire-based and will hit all stack that had done damage to Azkaal. So, the three shooters will definitely be killed by the retaliation.

I managed to defeat Xana after the third trial

This is the perfect way to fight with Xana; I defeat her on the first trial; the trick is mark all his enemy with Azzie spell to increase fire damage to 200%

Initially the cerberi dmg took me by surprise and I was afraid I'd run out of hp faster than I initially thought. But after that I played a defensive game and killed them all with the fiery retaliation. Just make sure to be hit by every stack and teleport around so that they cannot focus fire. That mark certainly helps ____________
Elvin you're a snowing Krogan.
-Adrius

or you could just use the Cerebus' crazy attack against it by always mind controlling it and let him kill half of Xana's army for you

also, that particular field is filled with obsticals so it isn't too hard to avoid the Cerebus by just teleporting left and right around it. as other's pointed out just mark and use boundless hate to wear it down while you kill the other stuff and save it for last.

That's actually one of the most fun fights in the whole game to be honest. since it's the only one where you can't outgrow.

Quote:In short, Inferno should be played more like Necropolis, aka slooooow, despite having several very offesnive natured units your specailty is COMPLETELY outclassed by everyone else for the first few rounds, HOWEVER if you get 3+ gated stacks out the odds began to turn to your favor considerablly.

Wow, this is diametrically opposite to my impressions. In my experience Inferno has good chances only against Stronghold only because their approaches are similar - mainly damage-dealing and little tactics subtlety/unit synergy. True, Stronghold can deal scary damage during the first round but it could be reduced somewhat with adequate army placement. After that Inferno could take the initiative with some good Gating and appropriate spells, mainly exploiting Stronghold's most significant weakness, the lack of Prime Magic and thus Dispel.
Sanctuary is a tough opponent but not completely unbeatable. However, I haven't had any fight against them since the beta and the Kappa jump wasn't working then so now it could be different.
HOWEVER, Inferno has absolutely no chances against a skilled Haven or Necropolis player right now. In the first case - because Inferno has great difficulties breaking the Haven turtle without losing too many creatures in the process and this is would be so even if the only working abilities for the Haven army were the Heal of the Sisters/Vestals, the Shieldguard of the Sentinels/Praetorians and the strike-and-return of the Glories + Guardian Angel. In Necropolis' case - because Inferno can't cope with the constant resurrection and the undead's immunity to the same spells which they can employ without limitations against the Inferno army with ugly effect.
I agree only with the part that Inferno is interesting to play with. Otherwise they're once again outsiders.

Quote:or you could just use the Cerebus' crazy attack against it by always mind controlling it and let him kill half of Xana's army for you

never tried to mind control the Cerebus, I always use the "mark" method; I will go back and try your method....lol...need find something to do with the game till the fix the bug for the final campaign; right now, everytime I try to access the final campaign the game crash

Quote:In short, Inferno should be played more like Necropolis, aka slooooow, despite having several very offesnive natured units your specailty is COMPLETELY outclassed by everyone else for the first few rounds, HOWEVER if you get 3+ gated stacks out the odds began to turn to your favor considerablly.

Wow, this is diametrically opposite to my impressions. In my experience Inferno has good chances only against Stronghold only because their approaches are similar - mainly damage-dealing and little tactics subtlety/unit synergy. True, Stronghold can deal scary damage during the first round but it could be reduced somewhat with adequate army placement. After that Inferno could take the initiative with some good Gating and appropriate spells, mainly exploiting Stronghold's most significant weakness, the lack of Prime Magic and thus Dispel.
Sanctuary is a tough opponent but not completely unbeatable. However, I haven't had any fight against them since the beta and the Kappa jump wasn't working then so now it could be different.
HOWEVER, Inferno has absolutely no chances against a skilled Haven or Necropolis player right now. In the first case - because Inferno has great difficulties breaking the Haven turtle without losing too many creatures in the process and this is would be so even if the only working abilities for the Haven army were the Heal of the Sisters/Vestals, the Shieldguard of the Sentinels/Praetorians and the strike-and-return of the Glories + Guardian Angel. In Necropolis' case - because Inferno can't cope with the constant resurrection and the undead's immunity to the same spells which they can employ without limitations against the Inferno army with ugly effect.
I agree only with the part that Inferno is interesting to play with. Otherwise they're once again outsiders.

All of these really depends, against a turtle (espeically since right now Imperial Griffin's dive is broken) I could just remain at my corner as well and you can only hit me with Marksmen and the occasional Glories / Griffen . while I summon up extra Lilim and / or Breeders, by this point because I have more pieces on the board than you my guage should be going like crazy and I everyround I summon a Tormentor or Cerebus on your end (at the end of the turn so you are unlikely to take it out) and keep wearing you down,

Given that you are unlikely to be devastating me with your spells, Your option at this point is probably to break up the turtle and try to charge me instead, but again by now I have more piece and could really mess you up simply by summoning a Ravager in the middle of your charge.

Now this could be a problem if Imperial dive works obviously, but since it doesn't right now that's much less of a threat.

Against Necros, I could see the problem being more obvious since you can life leech me but I can't, and seeing that most Necro will go Magic for sure right now it mean you'll outshoot me with Lich, so I probably do need to charge you. Though the problem with Necro right now is that aside from Ghouls their other melee unit's usefulness is neglectable at best. (espeically with a magic hero) as long as I'm not standing all my stacks besides your Lamasu for ever anyway. I could really just neglect your melee and once I get to your Lich you'd be in trouble. And again, Necro units arne't actually imprevious to Taunting Presense, so summoning a Ravager could really really mess you up.

Against human players mass dispell would obviously be a must though, which woul render a lot of the other mass spells's effectiveness less pronounced.
____________

I just started on heroes vi and took on inferno as my first campaign...
I was having difficulties at first but manage to survive and drag it on so long that I wiped out all the other factions.
But in the end, where the main guy became the demon within him and had to fight the army, I got totally wiped out...
The army was like 300-500-700 per stack, depending on which ones. Like Cerberus is 300 while lilim are like 500 while maniac is 700.
I just couldn't beat them with that one...demon...

Is this the result of me dragging the map on for like ever? I gave up and went to do orc afterwards...

Quote:All of these really depends, against a turtle (espeically since right now Imperial Griffin's dive is broken) I could just remain at my corner as well and you can only hit me with Marksmen and the occasional Glories / Griffen . while I summon up extra Lilim and / or Breeders, by this point because I have more pieces on the board than you my guage should be going like crazy and I everyround I summon a Tormentor or Cerebus on your end (at the end of the turn so you are unlikely to take it out) and keep wearing you down,

Given that you are unlikely to be devastating me with your spells, Your option at this point is probably to break up the turtle and try to charge me instead, but again by now I have more piece and could really mess you up simply by summoning a Ravager in the middle of your charge.

Have you tried it in practice at all or you are just crafting theories? The Haven army can sit in its arse with less than half of its creatures actually striking the Inferno army and still come out victorious without serious losses. You get rid of the original stacks and voila - no Gating. Killing the Lilim and the Cerberi is very easy, even with Marksmen ONLY and Inferno has no forms of resurrection apart from Drain Life and Regeneration. The Breeders are no concern, their ranged damage is so low that they need several consecutive attacks against one and the same target to do some real damage. The rest of the melee creatures will break their heads in the turtle without doing much. Inferno can utilize a few spells to break the turtle but Haven has access to neat counters so this doesn't help much either. Find yourself a good Haven player (or alternatively wait for me to get my PC fixed ) and you'll see what I mean.
As for Necropolis... no point to explain things here, just try to play against them and you'll see for yourself. Many thing sound nice in theory but when in practice the Necropolis army keeps coming back and the Necropolis hero keeps pestering you with spells that you can't employ against him/her, Inferno just loses badly.

Quote:All of these really depends, against a turtle (espeically since right now Imperial Griffin's dive is broken) I could just remain at my corner as well and you can only hit me with Marksmen and the occasional Glories / Griffen . while I summon up extra Lilim and / or Breeders, by this point because I have more pieces on the board than you my guage should be going like crazy and I everyround I summon a Tormentor or Cerebus on your end (at the end of the turn so you are unlikely to take it out) and keep wearing you down,

Given that you are unlikely to be devastating me with your spells, Your option at this point is probably to break up the turtle and try to charge me instead, but again by now I have more piece and could really mess you up simply by summoning a Ravager in the middle of your charge.

Have you tried it in practice at all or you are just crafting theories? The Haven army can sit in its arse with less than half of its creatures actually striking the Inferno army and still come out victorious without serious losses. You get rid of the original stacks and voila - no Gating. Killing the Lilim and the Cerberi is very easy, even with Marksmen ONLY and Inferno has no forms of resurrection apart from Drain Life. The Breeders are no concern, their ranged damage is so low that they need several consecutive attacks against one and the same target to do some real damage. The rest of the melee creatures will break their heads in the turtle without doing much. Inferno can utilize a few spells to break the turtle but Haven has access to neat counters so this doesn't help much either. Find yourself a good Haven player (or alternatively wait for me to get my PC fixed ) and you'll see what I mean.
As for Necropolis... no point to explain things here, just try to play against them and you'll see for yourself. Many thing sound nice in theory but when in practice the Necropolis army keeps coming back and the Necropolis hero keeps pestering you with spells that you can't employ against him/her, Inferno just loses badly.

Its not theory crafting. I'll try to explain better. In the first map for the Inferno Campaign, you play as this guy AA, I forgot his name. AA has the demon entrapped within him by Sarah, the angel. You have the two different factions that keep on attacking you if you attack the other one. I had trouble dealing with them. Its basically Inferno vs Inferno type creeps. But in the end, I sat and grew my army big enough to overcome them and cleared everything on the map (dragging the game very long). Then the third faction came up. It is the orc that appeared in the Tutorial Campaign that sold his solve to be revive to take revenge. After I beat that guy, cinematic came up. AA used his Dynasty Weapon, souldrinker or something, and absorbed the orc so he can't be revived again (storyline). Then the demon within AA came out and you play as this demon.

I'm not sure how the difficulty scaled but I had this demon with 75,000 HP and 3 abilities + normal attack. And I was against one of the Succubus/Lilim's army that was under AA. And that army had the 300-500-700 per stack. 1 Demon with 75,000 HP vs all those is... a bit hard. I tried several times and died miserably.

So I'm wondering if it is because I dragged the game so long that those armies grew stronger and stronger?

Last episode of the inferno campaign seems the most boring . I killed the red templar in 2nd week and then nobody else? Just wandering and increase power of hero on a neutral map? I was expecting something more interesting for the last map before the epilogues . Maybe the reason we don't need to convert towns. Hope the boss fight will be nice at least...