Hm. I could of sworn I read that BT keyboards would work. Probably someone extrapolating from headsets. So, we can't use the Remote App OR BT keyboards. WTF are we supposed to do?

As one thread I just read put it, you expect G4 to do at *least* what G3 could do (like data entry). I expected a way to migrate all the apps and logins over. Oops, my bad. The apps don't even exist in many cases.

Seriously, how did people test this, review this, make it sound so flipping wonderful? Good thing I still have two ATV3's!

It makes sense though. New Apple product with one of the sole focuses being the new remote. It makes sense from a marketing aspect that the Remote app and external keyboards would be disabled so that new/returning consumers can extensively use the new hardware.

I would say in a couple months we will see an update to the Remote app allowing use of it.

I would say in a couple months we will see an update to the Remote app allowing use of it.

Click to expand...

While I don't disagree with you; entering passwords and user ID's suck more on ATV4 than on the ATV3. On the ATV3 the keyboards were setup in a square like pattern so that moving around was fast. On the ATV4 they are all setup in a line, it takes a lot of extra effort enter the information in.

It makes sense though. New Apple product with one of the sole focuses being the new remote. It makes sense from a marketing aspect that the Remote app and external keyboards would be disabled so that new/returning consumers can extensively use the new hardware.

I would say in a couple months we will see an update to the Remote app allowing use of it.

Click to expand...

Plus your forgetting that this increased dependency on the remote means that if it's lost, you must absolutely buy a new remote or a spare.

You can use an ATV3 remote for basic things. But yeah, it was always good to be able to use the app. We do need to get clarification on this. Is this a 'oops, not yet' or 'ain't happening, new paradigm'.

It makes sense though. New Apple product with one of the sole focuses being the new remote. It makes sense from a marketing aspect that the Remote app and external keyboards would be disabled so that new/returning consumers can extensively use the new hardware.

I would say in a couple months we will see an update to the Remote app allowing use of it.

Click to expand...

That makes no sense, because their experience is just frustration when having to enter in 10 different email/password combinations to log in to all their apps using literally the worst on screen keyboard implementation ever devised.

Apple TV Gen 4 is by far the worse piece of crap apple ever produced since I started usingMac products in 1986. Sure, a couple of new features are nice, but a touch-sensitive remote and the many things you CANNOT do that we USED TO BE ABLE TO DO are totally stupid. NETFLIX keeps logging OUT and you have to keep inputting your long email address and password one character at a time (no keyboard or Remote APP support). Touch remote: Can't touch it, can't hold it, can't pick it up without messing up the viewing experience. WHERE DO YOU PUT YOUR FINGERS WHEN NOT OPERATING IT?? PLUS: Two important buttons RIGHT ON THE TOUCH AREA!! IDIOTIC!!!

Clearly, Apple can fix all these things with a software update, so WHY BUY NOW (3 units here)?? This is why Apple does not permit USER REVIEWS anymore on their website. They are trying to get the sales out by Xmas; fix later (hopefully)...Howver, Aple does not have a good track record any longer fixing bugs...only for promoting new features.

Apple TV Gen 4 is by far the worse piece of crap apple ever produced since I started usingMac products in 1986. Sure, a couple of new features are nice, but a touch-sensitive remote and the many things you CANNOT do that we USED TO BE ABLE TO DO are totally stupid. NETFLIX keeps logging OUT and you have to keep inputting your long email address and password one character at a time (no keyboard or Remote APP support). Touch remote: Can't touch it, can't hold it, can't pick it up without messing up the viewing experience. WHERE DO YOU PUT YOUR FINGERS WHEN NOT OPERATING IT?? PLUS: Two important buttons RIGHT ON THE TOUCH AREA!! IDIOTIC!!!

Clearly, Apple can fix all these things with a software update, so WHY BUY NOW (3 units here)?? This is why Apple does not permit USER REVIEWS anymore on their website. They are trying to get the sales out by Xmas; fix later (hopefully)...Howver, Aple does not have a good track record any longer fixing bugs...only for promoting new features.

Click to expand...

I have the opposite experience. Netflix logging out is not a common issue. I rarely use keyboard or remote app with my AVT 3. after initial set up, missing keyboard is not an issue at all.

since Amazon does not sell ATV 4, you can't find user reviews. But Best Buy has user reviews, and it is generally highly rated.

It makes sense though. New Apple product with one of the sole focuses being the new remote. It makes sense from a marketing aspect that the Remote app and external keyboards would be disabled so that new/returning consumers can extensively use the new hardware.

I would say in a couple months we will see an update to the Remote app allowing use of it.

Click to expand...

Honestly I think it had more to do with getting the thing out in time for the holidays.

The simplest answer and the easiest one for us (provided you own an iOS device) would be for all of these people who make apps that require a login to add a button to their iOS apps that automatically logs you in on the Apple TV without you needing to enter any details.

It's certainly possible to do it and it would eliminate a good chunk of the keyboard needs.

Apple TV Gen 4 is by far the worse piece of crap apple ever produced since I started usingMac products in 1986.

Click to expand...

I agree. There are soooo many petty issues with this Apple product that it's not really very Apple-ish. By far the worst product release by Apple yet. It was clearly rushed for xmas sales, but in the end I think it hurt Apples reputation some.

Yep. Xmas is the key.
The IPP & ATV4 both fall into this camp. Retail cycle rushed things.

Click to expand...

Rushed things? It was almost 4 years- YEARS- between TV3 and TV4. How many more years did Apple need to NOT delete software functionality they ALREADY had working in the "3"... and "2"?

I know we have to spin excuses for Apple but "being rushed" is not much of one for a corporate behemoth with endless cash reserves that could be put toward insuring that nothing still in beta gets out the door. If Xmas "rushed" out this beta, maybe Apple should have bought Christmas (or maybe bought December) and moved it 6 more months out?

Once again: it's stuff like this that makes the think the cost of the secrecy focus to facilitate the big reveal is probably too great. Too much secrecy for a few minutes of "wow!" vs. being able to more thoroughly (beta) test something new so that it can "just works" right out of the box: which is actually better all things considered? Myself? I would prefer a little less secrecy for a better buyer/user experience right out of the gate... instead of us having to spin "maybe the next software update..." or worse IMO "this is a first-gen product, and like any first-gen product...". Accumulated (actual) customer experience should probably be more important than 20 minutes (ONCE) of "Wow!" at the big reveal (again IMO).

For those think keyboard is a deal breaker, Google TV support full size keyboard. That is your alternative if you are not happy with ATV.

but warning, you will have other compromises on Google TV:
1) Rev/FF is not consistent across apps. Closed Caption is different for each app. no much of standard.
2) not many apps even though Google TV is out for over a year but it got Kodi
3) voice search is not global across app. it only work with Google app like youtube, not Netflix
4) Nexus Player is not stable. Netflix on it broke many times and took many months to fix. Nvidia Shield is more stable but it is one version behind Nexus Player.

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