This is a discussion on Min Raise vs 3raise in heads up cash within the online poker forums, in the Cash Games section; Ok this discussion pertains to NL holdem heads up, more specifically low stakes (.25/50-.50/1)
I just started playing more heads up, and I'm noticing every ...

I just started playing more heads up, and I'm noticing every now and then I come across a player who ONLY does a min raise from the sb (1st to act) instead of a standard 3raise of 3x the big blind. When I say only i mean it, these players seem to think there is an edge in only minraising preflop to open. I'm curious what you all think of this, they are certainly not getting more value out of their premium hands, however they are getting to see way more flops as I seem to be folding way less to these raises. I just don't get it, maybe they think they are phenomenal at post-flop play, but I don't see the advantage in this.

#2

19th October 2011, 9:36 AM

baudib1 [6,546]

Poker at: Full Tilt

Game: NLHE

min-raising is standard in HU play. You want to play more pots in position.

In BB you are really left with no good options. You can flat but then you play a pot out of position. You can fold getting good odds, letting him win the pot with minimal risk. Or you can 3-bet wide but since the raise was smaller, you win less and he can flat in position and then you play an even bigger pot OOP.

In HU, when you are going to be playing an incredibly wide range, you want to push any small edge you have.

#3

19th October 2011, 11:49 AM

baudib1 [6,546]

Online Poker at: Full Tilt

Game: NLHE

also if you find someone who just 3xs or goes 4x/5x you can be pretty confident he's a clown who doesn't know how to play HU.

#4

21st October 2011, 3:49 AM

soncheebs [547]

Poker at: BCP

Game: pokemon

Quote:

Originally Posted by baudib1

min-raising is standard in HU play. You want to play more pots in position.

In BB you are really left with no good options. You can flat but then you play a pot out of position. You can fold getting good odds, letting him win the pot with minimal risk. Or you can 3-bet wide but since the raise was smaller, you win less and he can flat in position and then you play an even bigger pot OOP.

In HU, when you are going to be playing an incredibly wide range, you want to push any small edge you have.

Thank you, this is exactly where i was thinking...i don't play HU cash often so frankly i wasn't positive this was good, but i am starting to realize quickly alot of the winning HU players are min raising preflop like this. Heres my question however, what happens when you do get a great hand out of the sb...don't you think your edge of seeing more flops at minimal risk is polarized with the fact that you now have to open for such a small amount with even your great PF hands at risk of giving away the strength with a higher raise?

#5

21st October 2011, 3:57 AM

baudib1 [6,546]

Online Poker at: Full Tilt

Game: NLHE

re: Poker & Min Raise vs 3raise in heads up cash

No. Because when you are opening 100% of pots from the SB for a raise, people start to play back at you a lot.

Playing the vast majority of your range profitably far outweighs getting an extra BB in with your premium hands, and you will likely to get 4-bet with them anyway.

Personally, my biggest problem is adjusting to people who start spazzing out constantly when I have nothing; getting action with a hand is no problem.

#6

21st October 2011, 4:30 AM

baudib1 [6,546]

Poker at: Full Tilt

Game: NLHE

I should note that once people start realizing you are raising every single hand and start to make adjustments, you certainly should adjust. If they never fold pre and aren't folding to cbets very often either, you can start open folding quite a bit more and 3xing with your now stronger preflop range, as well as start limping with a polarized range.

#7

21st October 2011, 5:01 AM

billyjustin [75]

Online Poker at: carbon

Game: Razz

I agree with this entirely, HU position matters so much, and the more he leans on you the more he starts freerolling with your chips. he loses a couple, oh well, he's freerolling. Just mix it back up, with crap too. Just can't play the Avg or above hands, gotta play back with those 8/4's and 3/9's, exploit him and make him pay. GL

#8

21st October 2011, 6:06 AM

brank [1,354]

Poker at: PS,Ipoker

Game: mix'em

Some guys I like to 3x and some guys I like to 2x. Its all depends on how big you think your edge is. I usually start out 2x though and adjust from there.

When I do find a player I want to 3x I fold about 20% of my range OTB. Its all depends on how agro they are. VS passive guys I'm way more likely to 3x a wider range.

I dont know if all this is right, Im fairly new to HU but vs the donators I play bigger pots IP with a stronger range.

#9

22nd October 2011, 11:59 AM

soncheebs [547]

Online Poker at: BCP

Game: pokemon

Quote:

Originally Posted by baudib1

No. Because when you are opening 100% of pots from the SB for a raise, people start to play back at you a lot.

Playing the vast majority of your range profitably far outweighs getting an extra BB in with your premium hands, and you will likely to get 4-bet with them anyway.

Personally, my biggest problem is adjusting to people who start spazzing out constantly when I have nothing; getting action with a hand is no problem.

See I consider myself a good lag player...usually 6max is my game and even live full ring I play alot of hands and I play them fast...I guess I see the edge in opening for a smaller amount...in the long run I see more flops, and I consider myself excellent post flop, and a 3bet is much more profitable to flat when I'm less invested...which i love to do with all drawing hands (suited connects, etc.)