Friends, let me tell you something, however compulsory it may be. There's no film. I'm live. Now, back to where we were when you last heard from me. It was with Leviticus on the tenth, I believe. Drink thee not, nor thee, thou sons, lest ye die. Nor congregate at the corner tabernacle. I'd like to take a short sabbatical...or a cup of coffee. Or, I wonder, is there a doctor in the house?

Last time I was in Arizona I saw temples being built left and right. I asked a Mormon friend if that wasn't taking away from the specialness of it all...apparently not. She said the whole world will be covered in temples to get ready for jebus.

AverageAmericanGuy:It's symbolic. If you have to understand why the restoration of an historic site is important for a religion, you don't understand religion.

We must use the best that science can offer us to show the power of our religion!It's too bad it wasn't lightning or a similar "act of god" that set fire to it, that always adds more humor to these situations.

AverageAmericanGuy:Pricey: No value has been given for the cost of reconstruction but many are questioning why the Mormon Church didn't simply rebuild elsewhere

It's symbolic. If you have to understand why the restoration of an historic site is important for a religion, you don't understand religion.

Because it is on top of a sacred Native American site of a slaughtered tribe. But I might be wrong but that is usually why they build these old temples in certain place that have special meaning to cover the old joo joo with the new joo joo and probably why it caught fire in the first place.

Gunny Walker:The firemen were denied entrace to fight the fire because they couldn't prove they were in good standing with the church.

Uh, I'm sure you're trolling...but no. It was a tabernacle at the time of the fire. All kinds of events were held there from school graduations to church firesides. Even if it were a temple at the time, firemen would have been allowed inside to do their job.

The old building is gorgeous. It's being turned into one of the "mini" temples. It will still have all the services and will perform all the sacred ordinances that the normal temples do. It is just much smaller and won't have the same capacity. It will be neat to see it when they're all done. I drive by it a couple times a month. I love Utah. It really is beautiful for anyone that hasn't been here.

saturn badger:I think this explains it all. From one of the pic descriptions.

Local landmark: The Construction on the tabernacle, which was first recommended by President Brigham Young, began in 1883

No way are they going to let a BY recommendation fall.

I know. I mean how can you not want to celebrate and remember the life of the great and wise "prophet" that said such awesome things like:

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290).

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

dark side of the moon:Gunny Walker: The firemen were denied entrace to fight the fire because they couldn't prove they were in good standing with the church.

Uh, I'm sure you're trolling...but no. It was a tabernacle at the time of the fire. All kinds of events were held there from school graduations to church firesides. Even if it were a temple at the time, firemen would have been allowed inside to do their job.

The old building is gorgeous. It's being turned into one of the "mini" temples. It will still have all the services and will perform all the sacred ordinances that the normal temples do. It is just much smaller and won't have the same capacity. It will be neat to see it when they're all done. I drive by it a couple times a month. I love Utah. It really is beautiful for anyone that hasn't been here.

real temples don't burn. stippling ghost warriors show up to defeat the onslaught.

Kali-Yuga:I think this explains it all. From one of the pic descriptions.

Local landmark: The Construction on the tabernacle, which was first recommended by President Brigham Young, began in 1883

No way are they going to let a BY recommendation fall.

I know. I mean how can you not want to celebrate and remember the life of the great and wise "prophet" that said such awesome things like:

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290).

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

In fairness the next page says this:"If the Government of the United States, in Congress assembled, had the right to pass an anti-polygamy bill, they had also the right to pass a law that slaves should not be abused as they have been; they had also a right to make a law that negroes should be used like human beings, and not worse than dumb brutes. For their abuse of that race, the whites will be cursed, unless they repent." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 111)

Mrs.Sharpier:Last time I was in Arizona I saw temples being built left and right. I asked a Mormon friend if that wasn't taking away from the specialness of it all...apparently not. She said the whole world will be covered in temples to get ready for jebustax-free profits fleecing the sheep for the church hierarchy .

Lifelong Mormon. Started questioning the church's history at about 16-17, went through the temple, been in an Elders' Quorum presidency, called to the Germany Frankfurt mission in 2000, busted out of the Missionary Training Center in the dead of night after four days, hopped a cab and took a plane back home to Colorado.

Kept going to church a few more years until I was absolutely certain the church isn't what it claims to be, then stopped attending. Kept studying, however, and continue to be fascinated by the culture and history of the church to this day. Family is still all "true-believing" Mormon, and I refuse to have my name removed from the records of the church. You could call me a New Order Mormon (http://www.newordermormon.org/). Culturally Mormon, perhaps, for the past 8-10 years or so. I think of myself a bit like a Jew who no longer believes in god but is still very much "Jewish." I'm Mormon on my own terms- I appreciate a lot about the church, I think its history is totally bizarre; while I don't think the supernatural claims are in any way true, I think the church is full of good, crazy people doing their best to be decent human beings. I love me some Mormons, and talking about Mormonism. Looking into a graduate program on religious studies to further my research into the church. Feel free to ask me anything about the church- I'll answer honestly.

Lifelong Mormon. Started questioning the church's history at about 16-17, went through the temple, been in an Elders' Quorum presidency, called to the Germany Frankfurt mission in 2000, busted out of the Missionary Training Center in the dead of night after four days, hopped a cab and took a plane back home to Colorado.

Kept going to church a few more years until I was absolutely certain the church isn't what it claims to be, then stopped attending. Kept studying, however, and continue to be fascinated by the culture and history of the church to this day. Family is still all "true-believing" Mormon, and I refuse to have my name removed from the records of the church. You could call me a New Order Mormon (http://www.newordermormon.org/). Culturally Mormon, perhaps, for the past 8-10 years or so. I think of myself a bit like a Jew who no longer believes in god but is still very much "Jewish." I'm Mormon on my own terms- I appreciate a lot about the church, I think its history is totally bizarre; while I don't think the supernatural claims are in any way true, I think the church is full of good, crazy people doing their best to be decent human beings. I love me some Mormons, and talking about Mormonism. Looking into a graduate program on religious studies to further my research into the church. Feel free to ask me anything about the church- I'll answer honestly.

did you ever get a looksee at the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu... kinda a cliff notes gateway book of poems that resonates with all eastern faiths. i read it and love it. maybe buddhism/taoism/etc... would fit better?

utah dude:Fair_Poopsmith: Mormonism. Looking into a graduate program on religious studies to further my research into the church. Feel free to ask me anything about the church- I'll answer honestly.

yah that was way honest. i'll check that site out.

the biggest reason i'm in it is cause i love dc89, after watching my entire family destroy itself with drugs and alcohol. even my patriarchal blessing is like: "obey WOW and everything will be fine."

If it works for you, that's great. But you know, you CAN consume healthy food in moderation and abstain from harmful substances without necessarily believing that you'll incur the wrath of the universe's creator if you don't?

For some people, the revelations and angels are necessary to make it work, and i guess that's fine- my family's in that boat too. But if you're a convert, I imagine you got a fairly whitewashed version of the church's history. Did you know that early church leaders and members, for nearly a century, didn't follow the WoW with any real seriousness. Brigham Young, Wilford Woodruff, Lorenzo Snow and others were pretty serious drinkers- the early Mormon pioneers brought whiskey, tobacco, and coffee with them across the plains. One of the first businesses in Salt Lake City was a distillery, in fact. The Word of Wisdom was treated pretty much as "decent advice" until the temperance movement in the 1920s.

Lifelong Mormon. Started questioning the church's history at about 16-17, went through the temple, been in an Elders' Quorum presidency, called to the Germany Frankfurt mission in 2000, busted out of the Missionary Training Center in the dead of night after four days, hopped a cab and took a plane back home to Colorado.

Kept going to church a few more years until I was absolutely certain the church isn't what it claims to be, then stopped attending. Kept studying, however, and continue to be fascinated by the culture and history of the church to this day. Family is still all "true-believing" Mormon, and I refuse to have my name removed from the records of the church. You could call me a New Order Mormon (http://www.newordermormon.org/). Culturally Mormon, perhaps, for the past 8-10 years or so. I think of myself a bit like a Jew who no longer believes in god but is still very much "Jewish." I'm Mormon on my own terms- I appreciate a lot about the church, I think its history is totally bizarre; while I don't think the supernatural claims are in any way true, I think the church is full of good, crazy people doing their best to be decent human beings. I love me some Mormons, and talking about Mormonism. Looking into a graduate program on religious studies to further my research into the church. Feel free to ask me anything about the church- I'll answer honestly.

did you ever get a looksee at the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu... kinda a cliff notes gateway book of poems that resonates with all eastern faiths. i read it and love it. maybe buddhism/taoism/etc... would fit better?

Everything fits well if you take the good with the bad. Buddhist meditation is great.

Lifelong Mormon. Started questioning the church's history at about 16-17, went through the temple, been in an Elders' Quorum presidency, called to the Germany Frankfurt mission in 2000, busted out of the Missionary Training Center in the dead of night after four days, hopped a cab and took a plane back home to Colorado.

Kept going to church a few more years until I was absolutely certain the church isn't what it claims to be, then stopped attending. Kept studying, however, and continue to be fascinated by the culture and history of the church to this day. Family is still all "true-believing" Mormon, and I refuse to have my name removed from the records of the church. You could call me a New Order Mormon (http://www.newordermormon.org/). Culturally Mormon, perhaps, for the past 8-10 years or so. I think of myself a bit like a Jew who no longer believes in god but is still very much "Jewish." I'm Mormon on my own terms- I appreciate a lot about the church, I think its history is totally bizarre; while I don't think the supernatural claims are in any way true, I think the church is full of good, crazy people doing their best to be decent human beings. I love me some Mormons, and talking about Mormonism. Looking into a graduate program on religious studies to further my research into the church. Feel free to ask me anything about the church- I'll answer honestly.

Are you on NOM much these days? I used to be there for a while 5-8 years ago, then just kind of graduated out as I lost interest in arguing and thinking and writing about make-believe.

My story is like yours, but it took me until I was a fair bit older than you when I just couldn't go through the motions anymore.

I agree that most mormons are good, crazy people just trying to be their best, but every once in a while you run into someone who tries to make you their project or whatever. It's also not cool when they try to sway elections. I think they are out of that business for now, though.

As to the original article, the Provo Tabernacle is where I took my now-wife on our first real formal date about 22 years ago - to see a performance of Handel's Messiah. I was a little sad when I heard about the fire. I'm glad to see they are keeping at least the facade. Too many cool old buildings get torn down.

AverageAmericanGuy:Pricey: No value has been given for the cost of reconstruction but many are questioning why the Mormon Church didn't simply rebuild elsewhere

It's symbolic. If you have to understand why the restoration of an historic site is important for a religion, you don't understand religion.

They will use all new timbers, all new decorations, new windows, a new roof. It may even end up with a new floorplan (though the new plan will probably be similar to the old). Everything about that building will be new, except for the outside bricks, and yet it will be the exact same building. Good ol ship of Theseus.

Lifelong Mormon. Started questioning the church's history at about 16-17, went through the temple, been in an Elders' Quorum presidency, called to the Germany Frankfurt mission in 2000, busted out of the Missionary Training Center in the dead of night after four days, hopped a cab and took a plane back home to Colorado.

Kept going to church a few more years until I was absolutely certain the church isn't what it claims to be, then stopped attending. Kept studying, however, and continue to be fascinated by the culture and history of the church to this day. Family is still all "true-believing" Mormon, and I refuse to have my name removed from the records of the church. You could call me a New Order Mormon (http://www.newordermormon.org/). Culturally Mormon, perhaps, for the past 8-10 years or so. I think of myself a bit like a Jew who no longer believes in god but is still very much "Jewish." I'm Mormon on my own terms- I appreciate a lot about the church, I think its history is totally bizarre; while I don't think the supernatural claims are in any way true, I think the church is full of good, crazy people doing their best to be decent human beings. I love me some Mormons, and talking about Mormonism. Looking into a graduate program on religious studies to further my research into the church. Feel free to ask me anything about the church- I'll answer honestly.

"Busted out of the MTC" LOL so did you pick the locks and don a ski mask? Or did you just leave, as anyone is allowed to do? Busted out, lol

Akambe:"Busted out of the MTC" LOL so did you pick the locks and don a ski mask? Or did you just leave, as anyone is allowed to do? Busted out, lol

I actually set off an alarm on the way out. I was not feeling like having any conversation with some dude I didn't know to try to explain myself. I probably could have just rolled with the punches and eased out in a few days, but I was a bit of an emotional wreck at the time. Luckily, my family was really cool and understanding. Most families aren't so,from what I hear.