I have read in numerous posts that there is a ~3 second window once you enter the next phase where you can pop your CD's and they reset as "normal" for P2. Anyone have any info here? I havent had the opportunity to check it out yet

That is correct

although it wont work for stampede the boss is too far away to use it at the start of P2

I assume when you say "circle on the minimap", you mean the greyish circle surrounded by the blue water? We're only starting attempts next reset, I just want to hit the ground running because we don't have much time to waste before 5.2.

Yes, the circle is faint but it's there.

Originally Posted by eschatological

Is the person grouping them up important in terms of what skills they bring to the table? Like someone mentioned earlier, having deterrence to soak an emerge so as not to get the adds uneven (though shouldn't the adds already be grouped up and being burned by then?). Or is it really just a job for "whoever has the spatial awareness to not fuck it up."? I'm assuming you can't deterrence the insta-gib death cast so as to group them all up before tossing the ball if you're a little uneven, but correct me if I'm wrong, that would seem like a damn good reason to put the job on me.

Yeah, hunters are a good choice because 1.) like you said, deterrence works against emerge and 2.) with iron hawk, we can actually survive an unmitigated emerge hit, and with any form of absorb or mitigation CD, there's like zero chance we can die if we're topped off. #2 comes in handy if emerge targets you twice in a row, because he submerges slightly faster than once a minute.

You cannot deter the eternal darkness cast.

Regarding eternal darkness, something that is really helpful to keep in mind: their position and the time at which they cast is slightly desynced. Sometimes an add will reach faster than the others, even though they were perfectly grouped up before. What happens is that the add will reach you, wait a little bit, THEN cast eternal darkness. The result is that, while it looks uneven, the difference is made up with that lag time, allowing you to wait until they're grouped up. The strat is to only pass the split second you see them casting. Bigwigs/DBM will ping at you, making it even easier.

Anyway, I would say hunters are the best for the job. It also has the benefit of letting you be a scumbag DPS because you almost never get huddled.

---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 10:11 PM ----------

Oh, and if you want to make stampede work during the transition, just cast it on the boss when he's at 66.6% hp. It will carry over and let your pets get about 10 seconds of DPS time before he submerges.

1) Naked and Afraid I imagine is on a fixed timer. no problem getting the taunt there I imagine.
2) Huddle is always soon after the emerge? It seems that way from the videos I'm seeing. I feel like in 10 man, we can't just have me holding the ball in the center spot pre-huddle, we'd want it on one of the two healers to ensure no double healer huddle (whereas in 25 the chance of all 5 of your healers being huddled is pretty damn poor). The benefit we have on 10 man is that we can clear all the huddles in 3 quick passes, with a 4th to me, before the adds are too significantly close to screw up their pathing horribly. Conveniently, most of our raiders sort their frames alphabetically and my toon's name begins with B (with the only person ahead of me being a tank who won't get huddled), so it should be easy to work bottom to top from group 2 on passes if I'm in group 1.

1) Naked and Afraid I imagine is on a fixed timer. no problem getting the taunt there I imagine.
2) Huddle is always soon after the emerge? It seems that way from the videos I'm seeing. I feel like in 10 man, we can't just have me holding the ball in the center spot pre-huddle, we'd want it on one of the two healers to ensure no double healer huddle (whereas in 25 the chance of all 5 of your healers being huddled is pretty damn poor). The benefit we have on 10 man is that we can clear all the huddles in 3 quick passes, with a 4th to me, before the adds are too significantly close to screw up their pathing horribly. Conveniently, most of our raiders sort their frames alphabetically and my toon's name begins with B (with the only person ahead of me being a tank who won't get huddled), so it should be easy to work bottom to top from group 2 on passes if I'm in group 1.

He casts 3 abilities during his emerge, one every 10 seconds - Huddle, Waterspouts, and Unplaceable strike. The order is 100% random, but when one has been used, he cannot use it again. So if he starts with waterspouts, he can ONLY strike and huddle you.

1) Naked and Afraid I imagine is on a fixed timer. no problem getting the taunt there I imagine.
2) Huddle is always soon after the emerge? It seems that way from the videos I'm seeing. I feel like in 10 man, we can't just have me holding the ball in the center spot pre-huddle, we'd want it on one of the two healers to ensure no double healer huddle (whereas in 25 the chance of all 5 of your healers being huddled is pretty damn poor). The benefit we have on 10 man is that we can clear all the huddles in 3 quick passes, with a 4th to me, before the adds are too significantly close to screw up their pathing horribly. Conveniently, most of our raiders sort their frames alphabetically and my toon's name begins with B (with the only person ahead of me being a tank who won't get huddled), so it should be easy to work bottom to top from group 2 on passes if I'm in group 1.

Oh, you're 10 man? From what I gather, 10 man just breaks huddle every single wave and deals with the adds being slightly off center.

Also, Huddle is always either the first or second ability he casts. If he casts strike at 20 energy, then you know he will cast huddle at 40.

At 67% (P1) i'll use Crows, Black Arrow, and Stampede on the boss (if on boss, otherwise just stampede the mob at the shrine, I don't know the exact HP value for 10man so i can't help there ), then he'll transition, as you zone in, spam your Rapid Fire, there's a small window to use it before the reset actually happens, so you get the most of it. (You can also disengage towards sha, have it reset, and do it again, to get you in range faster)

He starts on ~60 energy so there's just enough time for your arrow to drop off and stampede to fade before he sumberges. When he reappears, blow everything just as you would start a normal pull, but save your potion, it won't reset and you'll likely need it for when you fall behind on adds.

You will have time for 2 lusts, so use one after the first submerge, start multi-shotting just to apply sting from 2-3 adds, and build it up to full-blown aoe spam at the end.

You can leave out the last line if you don't want to mark yourself, that is mainly for 25man so we overwrite Bigwigs' Huddle markers should we get it, so we can more easily see the 3 thrower's positions (again, change the number, change the mark). 2 lines of stopcasting is only necessary for hunters but it's good practice.

Last edited by Dela2k10; 2013-02-19 at 01:50 AM.

Originally Posted by Jhazrun

You know how people talk about how you could just make a piece of rock with a billion health and damage and call it "hard"?

Ra-den is what you get when a designer thinks that's actually a really good idea.

Are you sure that stopcasting is necessary? I was under impression that extraactionbuttons can be pressed any time during cast.

Not this one. If you try to press it during a cobra shot, you're in for a surprise. Got me killed once before I realised due to the damn adds <.<.
Basicly, you can press it, and then press the target with left click on grid you want to throw it to, or you can target the person, and press the button and throw it to him - either works, so it's a bit different from other buttons.

So, we had about 2 hours worth of pulls last night, a lot of it was learning to dance on platforms. ShaOfFearAssist is kind of rubbish, I've pretty much stopped using it except as sort of a compass, and moving to the zones *I* know are safe instead of following its asinine positions.

I feel like we're getting a little overwhelmed on the boss platform (pre-buff) with adds. It doesn't effect me, I'm top DPS on all my meters because I just run and do full DPS on the move and dodge all the things. But our arcane mage, our spriest, seem to be having problems putting the pain on the boss.

We've dabbled with killing some adds with DoTs, but even with fearless, our spriest's DoTs only nuke them about 10% before they fall off, which seems like a long time for him to just stand around multi-dotting. It seems like to get them down, we'd need to have everyone on the main platform focus them down...but then the issue is whether it's worth extending the phase (due to less damage on the boss) and risking more bad platforms. Our lock wasn't in last night due to work, but maybe it'll be better with him and our spriest just multi-dotting the whole time.

So, we had about 2 hours worth of pulls last night, a lot of it was learning to dance on platforms. ShaOfFearAssist is kind of rubbish, I've pretty much stopped using it except as sort of a compass, and moving to the zones *I* know are safe instead of following its asinine positions.

I feel like we're getting a little overwhelmed on the boss platform (pre-buff) with adds. It doesn't effect me, I'm top DPS on all my meters because I just run and do full DPS on the move and dodge all the things. But our arcane mage, our spriest, seem to be having problems putting the pain on the boss.

We've dabbled with killing some adds with DoTs, but even with fearless, our spriest's DoTs only nuke them about 10% before they fall off, which seems like a long time for him to just stand around multi-dotting. It seems like to get them down, we'd need to have everyone on the main platform focus them down...but then the issue is whether it's worth extending the phase (due to less damage on the boss) and risking more bad platforms. Our lock wasn't in last night due to work, but maybe it'll be better with him and our spriest just multi-dotting the whole time.

Set up Sha of fear assist correct - I use these options:
Display style - Fixed (no spinning and making me dizzy).
Pattern - Globe Pickup [Default] (shows 3 pies instead of just one that's "safe", to allow for globe pickup).
Color my pie on (helps positioning).
Full color off (personal opinion, all the yellow/orange shades just annoys me).

This way, you get only two "bad" pies shown - next hit, and the one right after. If you do not stand in either, you'll be good. Stand in a green when dread spray starts, and you won't get hit. Done.

As for movement dps - they just have to play better. Our mages and spriests have no real issues.

There's an easier way to dodge Dread Spray and that's using the Black Arrow (there's one on the ground, heroic only) tactic.
The black arrow indicates where the guy will shoot Dread Spray first and after that he'll shoot once more there and you are save, you won't get feared.

So how to use it? It's simple, just stay on the right side of the arrow, when he shoots Dread Spray, move on top of the black arrow and stay there until he's done. After that move back on the right side and wait for the next Dread Spray. The tank should be able to get all the balls around with a little bit of help from the ranged if there's a ball near the raid.
It's way easier than following the addon / running around.
You might need a little bit of healing, but that shouldn't be a problem.

---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 05:03 AM ----------

Originally Posted by eschatological

We've dabbled with killing some adds with DoTs, but even with fearless, our spriest's DoTs only nuke them about 10% before they fall off, which seems like a long time for him to just stand around multi-dotting. It seems like to get them down, we'd need to have everyone on the main platform focus them down...but then the issue is whether it's worth extending the phase (due to less damage on the boss) and risking more bad platforms. Our lock wasn't in last night due to work, but maybe it'll be better with him and our spriest just multi-dotting the whole time.

Don't bother with the adds on the main platform, just nuke the boss. Only warlocks should dot them for extra shards. The adds shoot stuff randomly, they don't target players so be spread around. And obviously dodge stuff.

There's an easier way to dodge Dread Spray and that's using the Black Arrow (there's one on the ground, heroic only) tactic.
The black arrow indicates where the guy will shoot Dread Spray first and after that he'll shoot once more there and you are save, you won't get feared.

So how to use it? It's simple, just stay on the right side of the arrow, when he shoots Dread Spray, move on top of the black arrow and stay there until he's done. After that move back on the right side and wait for the next Dread Spray. The tank should be able to get all the balls around with a little bit of help from the ranged if there's a ball near the raid.
It's way easier than following the addon / running around.
You might need a little bit of healing, but that shouldn't be a problem.

---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 05:03 AM ----------

Don't bother with the adds on the main platform, just nuke the boss. Only warlocks should dot them for extra shards. The adds shoot stuff randomly, they don't target players so be spread around. And obviously dodge stuff.

Soaking the balls increases alot of classes dps, vastly, especially hunters (they restore focus at an incredible rate) due to unlimited movement. Not helping the tank soaking/running, and standing still to take damage, is something a person who can't deal with doing it the "proper" way would have to do, and is hardly something that should be advised for people to do.

Also, the adds do not shoot "randomely". They pick a target and shoots AT them, with very low accuracy. Try to move outside of the lightwall when sha gets to 70% or so, watch how all the balls will follow your general direction.

Soaking the balls increases alot of classes dps, vastly, especially hunters (they restore focus at an incredible rate) due to unlimited movement. Not helping the tank soaking/running, and standing still to take damage, is something a person who can't deal with doing it the "proper" way would have to do, and is hardly something that should be advised for people to do.

Also, the adds do not shoot "randomely". They pick a target and shoots AT them, with very low accuracy. Try to move outside of the lightwall when sha gets to 70% or so, watch how all the balls will follow your general direction.

Well not all classes/specs have good mobility (hello arcane mages!) which means it will increase their DPS if they don't move too much. There are still balls spawning around the raid where they are stacked up, and you can still cover half of the platform if you want to. I still think it's a overall raid DPS increase over moving around collecting balls.

There's like 12 seconds free time between dread sprays so you can use this time to collect balls around the platform (anywhere).
Also if you really lack DPS on the platforms, get 1 extra guy on each platform to stay and help the raid until like 70%.

Anyway, it's doable in both scenarios, guilds choose their own way how to deal with things.

For the adds on the main platform, you are right but when you stand still and see bolts falling 10-20 yards away from you, looks like they shoot random

Well not all classes/specs have good mobility (hello arcane mages!) which means it will increase their DPS if they don't move too much. There are still balls spawning around the raid where they are stacked up, and you can still cover half of the platform if you want to. I still think it's a overall raid DPS increase over moving around collecting balls.

But we are hunters. And we're helping someone who's playing a hunter. Why exactly do we care, in this scenario, what will increase an Arcane Mage's dps?

There's like 12 seconds free time between dread sprays so you can use this time to collect balls around the platform (anywhere).
Also if you really lack DPS on the platforms, get 1 extra guy on each platform to stay and help the raid until like 70%.

You also have to make it back to a safe zone in time, which the 3 "pies" helps with, rather than the one.

Having a DPS stay back is not really an option for the guy we're helping as he's in a 10 man guild.

Anyway, it's doable in both scenarios, guilds choose their own way how to deal with things.

For the adds on the main platform, you are right but when you stand still and see bolts falling 10-20 yards away from you, looks like they shoot random

Sure. I just don't see why you wouldn't chose the option that gives you the most dps, unless you can't handle a little extra movement as a hunter :s.

There's an easier way to dodge Dread Spray and that's using the Black Arrow (there's one on the ground, heroic only) tactic.
The black arrow indicates where the guy will shoot Dread Spray first and after that he'll shoot once more there and you are save, you won't get feared.

So how to use it? It's simple, just stay on the right side of the arrow, when he shoots Dread Spray, move on top of the black arrow and stay there until he's done. After that move back on the right side and wait for the next Dread Spray. The tank should be able to get all the balls around with a little bit of help from the ranged if there's a ball near the raid.
It's way easier than following the addon / running around.
You might need a little bit of healing, but that shouldn't be a problem.[COLOR=red]

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Here's the easiest way of all... first get VRDreadSpray addon. Then go into DBM and enable the option that tells you when to move for dread spray. 2 of the 3 plattforms will only have 1 yellow safe place to stand if you look at the VRDreadspray addon. Go stand in the safe yellow pie piece. Don't stand far back. When DBM tells you to move you simply run straight through the boss. Then move back to your old spot. There will be no running around in circles. Simply move through and move back. The only exception is Yang (I think - the one that starts with a Y) - there will be a lot of yellow pie pieces. You just stand in the one that is right there when you land on the steps - this time you just step into the pie piece on the right when DBM tells you to - that's it.

It's much easier than looking at arrows on the ground...or looking at a map that constantly spins, and I found the Sha of Fear addon to now always be accurate.

So, we had about 2 hours worth of pulls last night, a lot of it was learning to dance on platforms. ShaOfFearAssist is kind of rubbish, I've pretty much stopped using it except as sort of a compass, and moving to the zones *I* know are safe instead of following its asinine positions.

I feel like we're getting a little overwhelmed on the boss platform (pre-buff) with adds. It doesn't effect me, I'm top DPS on all my meters because I just run and do full DPS on the move and dodge all the things. But our arcane mage, our spriest, seem to be having problems putting the pain on the boss.

We've dabbled with killing some adds with DoTs, but even with fearless, our spriest's DoTs only nuke them about 10% before they fall off, which seems like a long time for him to just stand around multi-dotting. It seems like to get them down, we'd need to have everyone on the main platform focus them down...but then the issue is whether it's worth extending the phase (due to less damage on the boss) and risking more bad platforms. Our lock wasn't in last night due to work, but maybe it'll be better with him and our spriest just multi-dotting the whole time.

We noticed a large difference in peoples performance when getting them to switch to 'Spinning', 'Globe Pickup-Default', deselect the color my pie (the blue covers red=bad), and select full color. Most of it is personal preference, but that is what worked for all of us.

I would highly recommend not damaging a single add. Without the buff we kill three pandas, the forth group doesn't engage. With the buff we kill 2 pandas, and the third doesn't engage.

Once you have the hang of it you will pick up the buff in a pull or two. Most of the boss dmg is done with Hero on the pull, and by the dps teams who return with the damage buff. Outside of that, people should just focus on not being hit or feared.

We ran with similar settings, we did 'Spinning' and 'Minimal Movement'. Also uncheck the setting for "Color my Pie". Worked great for us, keep in mind with minimal movement you will get sprayed once, but not feared. It isn't really ever a problem healing through the damage.

Yeah, we got to p2 pretty easy tonight, in our 2nd night of attempts. I guess having our lock in, instead of our MW monk respecced as WW, is good stuff. Also, pre-buff people were not tunneling CDs on platforms, doomguard, mirror images, etc, not being used on pandas. I did go BM for pre-buff for elite panda damage, Stampede could basically carry one platform by itself. We seem to be transitioning during similar times, 4th platform pre-buff, 3rd platform with the buff. We've had problems with "not engaging," I assume it means literally not moving at all once you get there? We had people insisting that the mob was aggroing them as soon as they got there.

Working on p2 now, got some positioning ironed out, just need people to toss balls quicker. Best attempt around 35% tonight, and we wiped due to bad huddle clearing, not being overwhelmed by anything. I'm pretty hopeful we'll get it next lockout - we missed a night this week, so only a few hours of progress, and really little time at all with the buff.

Yeah, we got to p2 pretty easy tonight, in our 2nd night of attempts. I guess having our lock in, instead of our MW monk respecced as WW, is good stuff. Also, pre-buff people were not tunneling CDs on platforms, doomguard, mirror images, etc, not being used on pandas. I did go BM for pre-buff for elite panda damage, Stampede could basically carry one platform by itself. We seem to be transitioning during similar times, 4th platform pre-buff, 3rd platform with the buff. We've had problems with "not engaging," I assume it means literally not moving at all once you get there? We had people insisting that the mob was aggroing them as soon as they got there.

Working on p2 now, got some positioning ironed out, just need people to toss balls quicker. Best attempt around 35% tonight, and we wiped due to bad huddle clearing, not being overwhelmed by anything. I'm pretty hopeful we'll get it next lockout - we missed a night this week, so only a few hours of progress, and really little time at all with the buff.

You literally just walk to the pillar or stand still and it won't engage, no matter what. Big thing is p2 for us was making sure the adds stayed clumped together as often as possible.