Mayor Bill de Blasio under fire after murder of NYPD cops

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 22, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

On Saturday afternoon, 28-year-old Ismaaiyl Brinsley bragged the bystanders quote, "Watch what I'm going do." Minutes later he assassinated two NYPD officers as they sat in their squad car in Brooklyn. In an Instagram post the gunman vowed to putting, quote, "Wings on Pigs" as retaliation for the deaths of Eric Garner and Michael Brown. But this cold blooded murderer should bear the blame alone, according to a former NYPD commissioner and the chief of New York City's police unit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNARD KERIK, FORMER NYPD COMMISSIONER: I personally feel that Mayor de Blasio, Sharpton and others like them -- they actually have blood on their hands. They encouraged this behavior, they encouraged protests. They -- these so-called peaceful protests that, that where people were standing out there saying, kill the cops. Well, I hope they're happy, because they got what they wanted.

PARTICK LYNCH, NYC PATROLMEN'S BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT: There's blood on many hands tonight. Those that incited violence on the street, under the guide of protest that tried to tear down what New York City police officers did every day. That's blood on the hands, starts on the steps of city hall, in the office of the mayor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: K.G., a lot of blames to go around. Is it fair to blame the mayor?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I think it's absolutely fair, I mean, he -- it's his words, his rhetoric and he needs to be held responsible and accountable. I would be delighted if he stepped down from his position. I haven't liked his politics or his behavior, I found it to be divisive, of course isn't all directly attributable to him, no, it's not. But he should be careful about the words that he chooses and the impact that they have. I think he can see that reflected by the men and women that severed in the NYPD and their true emotions and feeling about it. They need to know that their mayor supports them, not to say that he raised his son to know to be afraid of the police officers. But let me tell you something, every day millions of Americans across this country dial 911, hoping and praying that the first responder gets there in time. Or yet, the police officers, fire department, paramedics, they put their life on the line, and this officer - - one of them particular was working overtime to help provide for his family during Christmas. To keep a neighborhood in an area that has been stricken with crime safe, so the families can live there. And look what happened to them, I mean such a tragedy, it's very upsetting on a lot of levels and I've had it with Sharpton too --

BOILLING: So.

GUILFOYLE: For him in there. (ph)

BOLLING: Right, OK. So Sharpton, de Blasio -- you know Greg, in one point, de Blasio said, you know, he has - he had to take his son of color side and said, be careful how you handle New York City police -- officers because you don't want to be -- I don't know, treated differently. Because they -- he alluded the fact that he might have been treated differently, because of his color. Now, a lot of people call that a dog's whistle, any of this in reaction, any of the mayor's dog whistles?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I -- I don't like the idea of saying that the mayor has blood on his hands. The blame is on the killer himself. We don't want to become like the people that blame the entire police force for one incident. We don't want to be like that. We're better than that. However, when you look at the protests that have been going on in the last couple of months, and you have seen the demoralization of the police officers and how they're basically, kind of nobody has their back. There's an implied consent over the protests, there's an idea that this is what happened after we elected de Blasio. De Blasio ran on the idea that the cops were gonna get theirs, not like this, but they were going to get -- they were gonna lose their power and -- this was to appease his --

GUILFOYLE: Supporters.

GUTFELD: Supporters who are -- hard left, anti-police -- you know, campus, campus trained activists who do not like law enforcement. I don't believe for a second that de Blasio wanted this. I just think he's incompetent. I think he has -- he doesn't have blood on his hands, he has oatmeal for a spine.

BOLLING: Well, OK. De Blasio to Sharpton, Dana -- Al Sharpton call for more protests, he said. We don't have justice yet, we need to protest more. Last week there are -- protests that called for dead cops, right? Then what happens to couple of days after they call for dead cops? We have two more dead cops. I mean, am I -- should -- it's all unfair for me to make the leap that Al Sharpton calls for more protests. More protests turn out to be violent -- violent protests kill cops.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, I don't think we know enough about this killer, we know that -- we do know that he was -- somewhat deranged, and he had been institutionalized before and he was criminal, and -- he is a murder. Is that -- did this -- was this the straw that broke the camel's back that encouraged him to act out on things, maybe that he was thinking about doing already? I don't think we know enough about that, so that -- I would be careful on that. I do find it amazing that we -- everyday are talking about Al Sharpton, as if he runs race relations.

BOLLING: For who?

PERINO: In America, it was actually really incredible. His statement on -- right after the cops were killed, statement was so self-serving. You got it there?

BOLLING: We have it. Let's -- take a listen to it right now. Go, roll.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP )

AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Last night, I began receiving threatening phone calls, and hate -- I play one, because I'm turning this over to the FBI. The language is "Hey, n-word, stop killing innocent people, I'm gonna get you." And I have several like this. We are now under intense threat from those that are misguided by those that are trying to blame everyone from civil rights leaders to the mayor, rather than deal with an ugly spirit that all of us need to fight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Who, who?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Who, who?

BOLLING: This is literally hours after two dead cops were lying -- it was lying in their squad cars. And everyone's waiting for Al Sharpton to make a statement.

PERINO: There should.

BOLLING: And here's what he comes up with. He comes up at -- it's all about me, look at me.

PERINO: And he also.

GUILFOYLE: Ugly spirit.

PERINO: The statement also written immediately, this is an immediate aftermath where he said, "I've never suggested that all cops are bad, I've just said that most of them are not bad." That's the kind of message that he put out there immediately afterwards.

GUILFOYLE: His terrible. And he's probably gonna try and call the cops, right? Al, you want some help with the threats, things are coming your way? Call the cops.

BOLLING: Even saying that you very patiently now, you wanted to defend de Blasio, you want to defend Sharpton -- goodluck, you want a shot.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: I want to defend any -- anybody who is accused as the most malicious, disgraceful, disgusting comment. They have blood on their hands. Bernard Kerik is a convicted felon. Were gonna listen to him? He should be back in jail. He got out because he got a break --

BOLLING: Stay. Stay on what he said.

BECKEL: Number one, -- wait a second. These are the guys who are saying it. Kelly is another one. Again, he has no reason to say it, and the worst one, the guy that I admire the most, Rudy Giuliani.

BECKEL: The transcript, the transcripts -- I said, the transcripts -- I have a bigger stuff you impose, it was wrong.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

BECKEL: But, the fact of the matter is there's no blood on anybody's hands here. The blood, if there is any blood, you want to say that is, that they did a bad arrest and the guy got killed.

BOLLING: Alright.

BECKEL: That's what led to the protests.

GUTFELD: Wait. So wait, you're linking that to the death of the two cops?

BOLLING: Two cops?

BECKEL: Yes. If it hadn't been for those guys -- I'm not saying that's.

GUTFELD: Oh my God.

BECKEL: Wait, wait a second. Wait a second.

BOLLING: You just said.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Let me finish that out.

BOLLING: The death because of Eric Garner?

BECKEL: No, no, no. I said.

GUTFELD: Eye for an eye?

BECKEL: If they -- if they had, if they had not had -- that guy kill. We wouldn't have had riots. And these things probably wouldn't happen.

BOLLING: So you are linking them?

BECKEL: This guy -- this -- waits, wait.

BOLLING: You just linked them all up.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, he did.

BECKEL: Don't you think -- don't you think that if there weren't riots we would have had this?

BOLLING: Yes, but I've already made that leap. I've made a leap from -- Al Sharpton. Al Sharpton protesting.

BECKEL: Forget Al Sharpton.

BOLLING: That the death of Eric Garner, asking for protest to the cops -- to -- this -- crazy man killing two cops.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: So basically, one isolated event, among millions of -- excellent police work has contributed to this. That's what you are saying, it's because.

BECKEL: No, not at all.

GUTFELD: You just.

BECKEL: Not at all, I just that.

GUTFELD: Can I just interpret it?

BECKEL: That's what I suggest like he did. What I said was, that I thought that this situation.

GUILFOYLE: This is crazy.

BECKEL: And we had not had these demonstrations. Had we have not had regrettably -- this guy being killed and regrettably, -- several police officers over reacting. If that had done happen, would not have had the protests, but then.

GUILFOYLE: OK, then take it back. Just dial wheel back.

BECKEL: Wait a second.

GUILFOYLE: De Blasio strikes force.

BECKEL: I'm not.

GUILFOYLE: Against cigarettes.

BECKEL: I'm not, I'm not -- de Balsio has nothing to do with blood on his hands. I mean, come on.

GUILFOYLE: I know. But you are thinking one statement.

BECKEL: That's it -- you're the one who said he did.

GUILFOYLE: No, no. No one -- listen to me.

BECKEL: You did too. You said he had blood on his hand.

GUILFOYLE: No, Bob. Listen.

BECKEL: You would ask the question, what was the leap? You said, you have leap but he has blood in his hands -- you say yes.

BOLLING: Alright, alright.

GUILFOYLE: I don't have a problem with attributing his rhetoric to certain conduct.

BECKEL: Oh my God.

GUILFOYLE: Look at the police officers turning their back on him, because as a leader.

BECKEL: Then -- then you blame the NRA for what --

GUILFOYLE: You know what? I can't engage (ph) it's non-sense.

BOLLING: Is there any question that this guy was motivated to come down from Baltimore to kill two officer cops in response.

BECKEL: The guy was a crazy nut.

BOLLING: In response they're garnering.

BECKEL: He had been arrested 21 times.

BOLLING: They at least agree on that. Do we agree on that, right?

BECKEL: No, no, no. He would have done anything to get this something in my life (ph) he said it.

PERINO: And that is -- that actually is your better point, Bob, if you're going to --

GUILFOYLE: Right.

PERINO: To stick with that and not then say, but if we hadn't had the Eric garner case, this wouldn't have happened. I do think the permissive nature of indulging the paranoia of the far left of the protesters saying, that -- and maybe it was isolated by Greg, who showed it last week -- I think we were the first to show it on Fox News, what do we want? Dead cops.

GUILFOYLE: Dead cops.

PERINO: What do they want them now? -- When they want it now. That is actually -- because the response to that was sort of muted, and everyone try to say, well, it's just a small little part of the protest. It gave rise to the fact that these -- that the cops have reason.

GUILFOYLE: And who was leading that protest?

PERINO: To be worried.

GUILFOYLE: Al Sharpton.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: He called for those protesters.

GUILFOYLE: He called fort it.

BECKEL: It had one guy who was a mentally ill, 21 times arrested, three times on -- murder. He killed his own wife and went to.

BOLLING: No, no.

BECKEL: New York City.

BOLLING: Didn't kill her, it was a girlfriend he shot, she didn't die.

BECKEL: OK. Excuse me, I'm sorry. She didn't die.

BOLLING: Yeah, but it doesn't matters Bob. I mean, what really matters.

BECKEL: What is your matter? Is it matters that the guy from Baltimore comes up here and kills New York City cops is despicable but to somehow lay that on the mayor of New York City.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, but you cannot like it happen to the vacuum. We're not saying it's direct proximate cause, but it was part of a very hostile and dangerous environment towards law enforcement to where the point where the men and women that serve don't feel that we have their backs.

BECKEL: Alright, let me, let me.

GUILFOYLE: Because what do they hear when they're on the street?

BECKEL: Let me reverse this question all here. (ph)

GUILFOYLE: We want dead cops now. What did the mayor do about it, Bob?

BECKEL: If this had not happened, if it's de Blasio, the rest of them talked about this, do you think this guy, this fruit shake in Maryland, would have left and drove up here and kill police.

GUTFELD: they're being.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: No again.

GUTFELD: What we're trying to say, an environment was created.

GUILFOYLE: Correct.

GUTFELD: That encouraged people that were on the edge, maybe his friends, but encouraged it. And by the way, when somebody shouts that they're going -- or announce it that they're going to kill cops. Why can't we take them at their word? Why do we have to say, "Oh, no. That's not what it means."

GUILFOYLE: Right.

GUTFELD: When somebody yells Allahu Akbar, I know what that means.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: But also you made a good point that on social media, he announced it on Facebook that he was gonna do and Instagram that he was gonna do it as well. Where is at -- where are the people who --

GUILFOYLE: Because it's too busy.

BECKEL: That raises another point.

GUILFOYLE: Is it administration here that was against stop and frisk. Don't open. Don't go off and talk to anybody unless they're selling cigarettes.

BECKEL: They had information on Baltimore. This guy was gonna do this. They sent that information to New York. They did not have the ability or the technology to get it out to all the police cars.

BOLLING; Do me a favor. There's been a lot of device.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: But we don't want it to. I talk about the facts. You know about this.

BECKEL I don't know, let's talk about other.

BOLLING: You want to blame someone else now? You want to blame more cops Bob? You want to blame the Baltimore police?

BECKEL: No, I want to talk about trying to get of the best -- best equipment that they can have, so they would know and advance ahead of time.

BOLLING: We agree on that. We definitely agree on that.

BECKEL: Thank you.

BOLLING: Anyway, there's been divisive rhetoric against cops for months, coming from the president in other race promoters. Leading up to the murders of these two officers, here are Congressman Peter King and Former Mayor Rudy Giuliani, setting the record straight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PETER KING, R-N.Y.: It's really -- it's time for our national leaders, the president, and from the mayor in New York, and really from many in the media to stop the protest (ph) and to stop whether it's anti- police rhetoric.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: We have had four months of propaganda starting with the president, that everybody should hate the police. The protest -- even the ones that don't lead to violence and a lot of them lead to violence. All they lead to a conclusion, the police are bad, the police are racist. That is completely wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Alright, we'll take it around very quickly on him about a minute so, K.G.?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, that is the point, it's a very hostile environment, this isn't positive for any communities, especially minority communities that have high crime, they need the police there and the majority of them are very grateful to have them there to serve to keep them safe. This is an administration and in fact an administration in D.C. and an administration here in New York City, that said the cops are racist. That they profile, all of these things that are erroneous, that they are not facts to back it and support it. And look at the product of the environment we have right now, we have never had such a bad situation. Remember in 9/11, everybody loved the NYPD and the first responders. Look at how far we have fallen. It's sad.

BECKEL: The president of the United States never ever uses the word racist. Number one, it's called them racist, and you have to be quick, (ph) you'll be careful about what you say about a president. You know, you say that -- you live there, your introduction, you said, we have had months of racism from the president of the United States. That is just flat wrong. He has tried his best, I think he to try to cool things down.

BOLLING: But he claims race relations are better now than when he took over.

BECKEL: Yeah, well.

BOLLING: I would beg the difference.

BECKEL: I that -- but you're making a conclusion, somehow he's responsible for what happen.

GUILFOYLE: This goes back --

BOLLING: No, I didn't.

GUILFOYLE: Trayvon Martin.

BOLLING: No, I didn't point at the president, -- the way Al Sharpton did it. The way Bill de Blasio did it. When you open the door for more anger and protest.

GUILFOYLE: And the whole justice department.

BOLLING: Sometimes you open the door to more violence. That's what --

BECKEL: There is retrieve. (ph)

PERINO: I also think that a lot of the media has been based on false -- false accounts from the Missouri case in Ferguson, the "hands up, don't shoot" I mean, that is -- that became a symbol. We have football players doing it, media stars and other networks joining in. Perpetuating that myth, OK? Stoking the fire. The other thing is that what people are really mad about Eric Garner in New York City, he has a kind of mad the police. But, really what they were mad about is that the grand jury did not return an indictment on any -- they had -- did no charges. As far as I know the police aren't. They are no sitting there in the grand jury, I mean, they were witnesses but if people are really angry at, is that --and we don't have the information, we may never because those are secret proceedings. >

GUTFELD: In this day and age, murder is now performance art. Where did that come from? It's not -- I'm not going to blame President Obama, I'm gonna blame the media. The AP has been hounding cops forever.

PERINO: Yup.

GUTFELD: They've been making their lives hell. The media has absolutely no idea what a cop's life is like.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

GUTFELD: Every damned hack should get into a car and do it --

GUILFOYLE; A ride along.

GUTFELD: A ride along with them, in the worst neighborhoods and see what police officers are doing and what they have to put up with. The police officers, -- they don't make any money, they live in those neighborhoods, these guys break their back for this country.

GUILFOYLE: True.

BOLLING: And so what?

GUTFELD: And they treat.

GUILFOYLE: And I have done those rides all along.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Who is arguing that, who is arguing that? That a very small fringe of the right.

GUTFELD: Bob, Bob.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I will tell you, I will tell you.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Al Sharpton.

GUTFELD: I will tell you how it's being portrayed, silence. Silence -- when all this crap was going down, there were no major leaders that actually stood up and setting in -- except for Giuliani and the few others. But they'll people that were in charge now, because, they're associated with people like Sharpton and they have a hard left backing, they cannot come out pro-cop. They come out pro-cop and then all of these activists get pissed off.

PERINO: And also they've been -- the cops have been called thugs, punks.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

PERINO: Pigs.

BECKEL: By who?

PERINO: Increasingly.

GUTFELD: Sometimes by you.

PERINO: Bob, by a lot of people. And it's kind of rhetoric (ph) well, maybe the people are just angry, let it go. But actually, I think that --

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

PERINO: I wouldn't say blood on the hands, but --

GUTFELD: My point is --

PERINO: It's rhetoric.

GUTFEDL: Right now Bob, you and the mayor are appealing for thoughtfulness and calm.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, right. A little late.

GUTFELD: We were doing that months ago.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

GUTFELD: We were saying, come on, we got to lighten up here. But nobody is listening, they were demanding.

BOLLING: And it was a different tune, right.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: And it was a different tune two months ago, from the result of it (ph)

GUILFOYLE: The mayor putting a -- and they complained about --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: No Eric. And they complained about no minority officers, well you just murdered two of them.

BOLLING: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: They're talking about Ferguson, where there weren't any minority officers. Get that break. (ph)

GUILFOYLE: Never good enough.

BOLLING: Officers are period.

BECKEL: Get your facts straight.

GUILFOYLE: I have all my facts.

BOLLING: I want in two in blue assassinated. They're hanger (ph) next on THE FIVE.

(CROMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: So, the scumbag stated his murders were for revenge. That's the anti-cop version of shouting "Allahu Akbar" at Fort Hood. It's called a declaration of intent.

And so I wonder, will any Ivy League campuses delay classes for the deaths of these two officers like they did with exams after the grand jury decision?

Nope. The only trauma they honor is the pretend kind for sensitive coeds.

And so the mayor asks the people come forward with tips on threats against cops. I guess he missed this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALES: What do we want?

CROWD: Dead cops.

UNIDENTIFIED MALES: When do we want them?

CROWD: Now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALES: What do we want?

CROWD: Dead cops.

UNIDENTIFIED MALES: When do we want them?

CROWD: Now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALES: What do we want?

CROWD: Dead cops.

UNIDENTIFIED MALES: When do we want them?

CROWD: Now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALES: What do we want?

CROWD: Dead cops.

UNIDENTIFIED MALES: When do we want them?

CROWD: Now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALES: What do we want?

CROWD: Dead cops.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFLED: So Santa came early for cop haters.

Of course, we will be told that there's no connection between chanting "dead cops" and cop killing. Sorry, a bat could see that connection.

Seriously, what do you expect after months of demonizing the police? Murders are not a power structure, but chanting death to cops suggests there's a fan base. The unbridled protests implied officials support -- its left wing version of a half marathon. God bless the cops for not cracking because, I would.

Saturday night I took a walk to City Hall. It was dead quiet. I realized that the city only supports the outrage when it's sanctioned by the left. It would be nice to see a large city with unbelievably low crime support those who have made their lives safer.

But police are victims of their own success. None of these activists realize that cops have done more to save their minority lives than Sharpton ever could. After all, those murdered cops were protecting citizens in a high crime area. Al wasn't on that corner.

It's heartbreaking how loud Twitter was this weekend and how quiet New York was, on the streets. Maybe it's time to change that.

After -- after the shootings, there was some interesting video that came out of Ferguson, why don't we roll that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pigs in a blanket.

CROWD: Smell like bacon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pigs in a blanket.

CROWD: Smell like bacon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pigs in a blanket.

CROWD: Smell like bacon.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BECKEL: Six, seven, eight, nine.

GUTFELD: So that's -- of course just an aberration, right, Bob.

BECKEL: It was nine people there, and don't think the left was pleased. The left overwhelmingly feels terrible about what happened here. The left is not against the police, the left -- you pick out some couple of people like Sharpton and these idiots that you put on the air, and you put us all together and the one left being against cops, it's outrageous, it's wrong, and it's all I got.

GUTFELD: But you have a history of anti-cop hate, all through the '70s and '60s.

BECKEL: Who's that?

GUTFELD: The left. We have Joanne Chesimard in Cuba. She killed the cop, how did she get to Cuba? Who help her? Goldwater?

BECKEL: I agree with you, it was an anti-cop too in '70s and a vast number of New York City police were corrupt in the '70s.

BOLLING: Bob.

GUTFELD: That's OK. Sorry, I apologize.

BOLLING: You just said we picked out Al Sharpton -- so the President Obama. He visits the White House.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: No, but here's the point, the reason why we're highlighting Al Sharpton and all the -- they calling for more protests, dead cops, what do we want more, dead cops and then two dead cops appear the following week.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Reason why we highlight that. Isn't because he's a race baiter or huckster like, Jesse Jackson or Louis Farrakhan, it's not because of that. It's because Al Sharpton is the one that President Obama has said, he's gonna be my go to guy in race. Al Sharpton is the one for some reason. Sony has said, we're gonna talk to him by what we put on.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: Film now. It's just.

GUILFOYLE: He's gonna help pick the new ID. (ph)

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Ground zero, epicenter of problems in race in America, and everybody seems to divert to him for their idea -- for ideas on how to solve race problems, here's his idea, make it worst so that we can make a buck.

GUILFOYLE: And he says he's in charge of hiring, that he's helping out with that too, to make a decision for the justice department.

BOLLING: Right.

GUILFOYLE: Just love that for a moment.

GUTFELD: Dana, I want to throw to son of Ray Kelly, and talking about the events and then I would like you to comment on it.

PERINO: OK.

GUTFELD: Reasonably.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAY KELLY, FORMER NYPD COMMISSIONER: Obviously there's a lot of emotion involved when two police officers are killed. I think when the mayor made statements about they had to train his son to be -- is son who is biracial to be careful when he's dealing with the police. I think that -- set off this latest firestorm, and quite frankly, the mayor ran an anti-police campaign last year when he ran for mayor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: So really, it's not about that -- the mayor caused this, it's that the atmosphere around it which causes a firestorm.

PERINO: I'm interested in de Blasio. He might be the worst politician I've ever seen -- he has an ideology, he believes it and he lives it. But it's one thing to tell your son that in private, and it's another thing to broadcast it to the world and use it to get a headline.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: In the New York Times to explain how you empathetic you are, to people you think are being unfairly targeted by the police.

GUTFELD: But that -- stories of race have become stories of race, if you noticed. For example.

PERINO: A race to the race story?

GUTFELD: No, in the recent People magazine, about a certain first lady who had -- somebody ask her to pull something out from Michelle. That became a story about race a target, when in fact I guess previously, it was story about somebody didn't recognize her.

PERINO: Yeah, I've almost never.

GUTFELD: Story about race are now stories about race.

PERINO: I almost never get ask to get something down of Michelle for somebody.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: Might be shortlist.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I'd like to see the transcript to that. Because I wonder if the first lady was actually saying that and I wanted to give sort of the benefit of the doubt on that one.

GUTFELD: Well, it could have been the People magazine editor.

PERINO: I think to watch the -- exactly, I thought the way it was edited was wrong. De Blasio -- the interesting to see if he can take a punch and p get back up. And he had a long press conference today with Police Commissioner Bratton.

GUILFOYLE: Poor Bratton.

PERINO: Where they're trying to show that they were united, probably the most important audience that they have right now, it's not the citizens of New York, it's the police force.

GUILFOYLE: Poor Bill Bratton. You know, having to be in this situation, because he really does love the men and women that serve the NYPD blue that is for sure. And to be in a situation like this, a man who's been celebrated across the country, for what he sat for police departments. He went down to Los Angeles as well, and did a fantastic job there, and all the work that they have done. Kelly and Bill Bratton -- to make town, the city safer and then to see such tragedy like this, and so the point is, we're not making a direct link saying this is de Blasio's fault, but show some leadership, and exercise only caution, choose your words carefully, they have impact.

GUTFELD: Good point. I was going to bring up Johnny Ray and the Castro, you bet for Massachusetts, decided on his own take his family and just go to various police precincts and drop off flowers and cards, Saturday. It's probably not a bad thing, other people should be doing and that doing what this family did, which I thought was pretty inspirational.

GUILFOYLE: Lost in the anger following Saturday's brutal assassination are the victims: Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu. Liu was 32, a seven-year veteran of the NYPD who was married just two months ago. Ramos was 40, a two-year veteran of the squad and a father of two.

On Saturday his 13-year-old son Jaden took to Facebook to offer a truly heartbreaking tribute. "Today I have to say bye to my father. He was there for me every day of my life. He was the best father I could ask for. It's horrible that someone gets shot dead just for being a police officer. Everyone says they hate cops, but they are the people that they call for help. I will always love you, and I will never forget you. Rest in peace, dad."

The cousin of Officer Ramos says the family has already developed the strength to forgive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We forgive him. The Ramos family forgives him, because God forgave us. And I know if Rafael was here, and if he was the opposite, he would say the same, that he forgave him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Really inspirational, the way the family has handled such a heartbreaking tragedy. You would think in the aftermath of this, there would be anger, that they would be expressing themselves. And maybe he would be able to forgive and understand, if you will, in their shoes.

And instead Eric, we see this compassion and this emotional strength and maturity coming from this family.

BOLLING: I read that, that post that I believe I believe it was Jaden...

GUILFOYLE: Ramos.

BOLLING: ... Ramos put up, and it was just heart-wrenching. And if you read back a couple of posts earlier, it wasn't just that one post to his dad. He had consistently put up a post to his dad, how much he loved his dad, how much he respected his dad.

GUILFOYLE: With beautiful collages of them.

BOLLING: It was a tight family. Here's two kids now, Jaden and his brother, who don't have a father that will come home to him. There are -- Bill Bratton said that there are at least a dozen copycat killing investigations going on right now, more kids who may not have a father coming. Why? It's senseless. It's senseless.

GUILFOYLE: That's what I was talking about.

BOLLING: These law enforcement officers are here to keep us safe, and they shouldn't be targeted. They shouldn't be spoken to the way they've been spoken to over the last couple of months. Is there an issue? I don't know if there's an issue. All I know is these are good people. They don't deserve this, and don't forget the families.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and I think the more of us that get out there and say this, and say how much we appreciate the job that they do for very little pay, never knowing when they walk out the door in that uniform whether or not they're going to come back home or the next time their family might see them is at a funeral.

PERINO: And it's not -- it's just -- the officers have to think about that themselves, but imagine what their wives or their husbands and their children or their moms and dads and all their family feels and their neighbors. Because going into police work, it's not like you just sort of fall into it and you fall into that career path. It's a choice.

It's like people who decide to join the military, that it is voluntary and it's because you feel some sort of calling. Officer Liu, his father came from Guangdong province in China. He decided to become a police officer after 2007.

And Ben Chen Liang (ph) is 56 years old. He owns a restaurant. And Officer Liu used to go by the restaurant on his way home. And one time, he said, "Why would you want to be a police officer?" He's asking Officer Liu this.

And he said, "I know that being a cop is dangerous, but I must do it. If I don't do it and you don't do it, then who is going to do it?"

And we talk a lot about our veterans, our military veterans, as we should, but it's important, I think, to remember that police work is a choice and that they go into harm's way to protect us. And that's very noble and honorable.

GUILFOYLE: They choose to serve and give every day -- Greg.

GUTFELD: Yes, and really the only way to honor the fallen is to support those that are alive, support the police, march for them.

Again, I just -- I do think police are the victims of their success, because nobody seems -- it was so quiet Saturday after that. And it blew my mind. And I went and I talked to the cops out there who were absolutely demoralized.

And I do think that President Obama could do two things. He should have a national day of support for the police, or something, declare it. And they should demand the return of Joanne Chesimard, the cop killer, back to the United States. I think it would be -- would go a long way...

PERINO: Cuba today said that they have the right to keep her.

GUTFELD: Of course they would.

GUILFOYLE: The timing is very right for that.

Bob, some good news about the two sons of Ramos. The Yankees' Steinbrenner Foundation is going to pay for their schooling. One of the boys is in college. So that family at least doesn't have to worry about it, because his father was working in overtime shift that night. He wasn't scheduled for it.

BECKEL: It was a deserving move on the Steinbrenner thing. You know the thing that always surprises me -- that always surprises me about when police officers get killed, no matter where they are across the country, thousands and thousands of police departments show up, you know, for their funerals.

GUILFOYLE: Solidarity.

BECKEL: You see one after another after another.

And the last thing I'd say about de Blasio, going back to what Dana said, de Blasio walked into that hospital that night, and every policeman turned his back on him. Now if you can't pick up a message from that, you can't pick up a message.

PERINO: Yes. It doesn't get much stronger than that.

GUILFOYLE: Ahead, should the act of hacking of Sony be considered an act of war by North Korea? President Obama's answer to that question, it's next on THE FIVE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: The movie the world is talking about won't be in theaters on Christmas day, but "The Interview" will be released eventually. According to a lawyer for Sony, the studio plans to the distribute but isn't sure when or how.

The U.S. blames North Korea for the hacking, but the president doesn't think this was an act of war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I don't think it was an act of war. I think it was an act of cyber vandalism that was very costly, very expensive. We take it very seriously. We will respond proportionally as I said.

REP. MIKE ROGERS, R-MICH.: You can't necessarily say an act of war. We haven't got -- we don't have good, clear policy guidance on what that means when it comes to cyberattacks.

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I think you have -- you don't want to start a war over this. Let's not go crazy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Sony's come under fire for pulling the film. The president thinks the move was a mistake. But CEO Michael Lynton thinks it's he and others who have gotten it wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL LYNTON, SONY ENTERTAINMENT: The unfortunate part is in this instance, the president, the press and the public are mistaken as to what actually happened. We do not own movie theaters. We cannot determine whether or not a movie will be played in movie theaters. We have not caved, we have not given in, we have persevered, and we have not backed down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: I'm going to agree with President Obama in calling this cyber vandalism. I don't think I would have come up with that word, but I think it was not quite an act of terror. Do you agree, Eric? Or are you going to go full terror?

BOLLING: I would say, because of the cost and the way it's changing our lives, based on the fear of a threat that would, at least in a lot of definitions, qualify as terror.

Can I just talk about Sony CEO Mike Lynton right there?

PERINO: Sure.

BOLLING: Wow.

PERINO: I'm a fan.

BOLLING; I'm against -- he just said that. He just said it wasn't our fault that the movie wasn't aired, wasn't shown in theaters because they didn't release it, he forgot to mention they didn't give it to the theaters to release. The theaters can make their own decision whether to release it or not.

PERINO: But the theaters told them that they weren't going to...

BOLLING: So they don't release it?

PERINO: Well, yes.

BOLLING: No. No, no, no. Release it and let them put it on the theaters. The reason why they didn't release it is because they were afraid if the movie theaters didn't play the movie, the box office receipts were very low.

I think that's walking back of something they -- They're trying to hide the fact that they pulled the movie themselves. Can I just talk real quickly, and I'll move on.

North Korea said, "Our toughest counteraction will be boldly taken against the White House, the Pentagon and the whole U.S. mainland, the cesspool of terrorism." Really, North Korea?

PERINO: Right. But anyway, Kimberly, I like taking it down a notch because if President Obama said yes, this was an act of war, then the next question is, OK, then what are you going to do? They said proportional response. I think maybe it should be stronger than proportional. But what do you -- and in fact, North Korea's Internet has been down for the last couple of hours, which is only about 1,000 people, but probably a good move by us.

GUILFOYLE: I'm so sorry, Dana.

PERINO: You disagree?

GUILFOYLE: I'm going to have to disagree with you.

PERINO: Whoa.

GUILFOYLE: I won't break up with you, but I'll disagree with you right now. OK? Cyber vandalism? What? What does that mean? Like North Korea got a Magic Marker and scribbled on the windows at Sony? Is that what they did?

PERINO: OK, it's a good point, yes, but we can still go out later.

GUILFOYLE: Not what they did. I understand the president kind of, but we can talk about it later. He can put some calm and measure to it. But nevertheless, you also can't be afraid to call it what it is.

And this was an act of terror, because it prevented people from acting and releasing, because they were afraid that lives would be lost and/or ruined, destroyed because of this. So it's very complicated.

I like the rhetoric and the stance, the executive from Sony, and yes, he can't control the whole chain of the supply and demand, if the people won't. But find a way to do it, because this is a very dangerous precedent to, like, shut it down and let them win. And we can't cave in to terrorists.

PERINO: Bob, cyber war or cyber vandalism?

BECKEL: Well, I would prefer, actually, because the biggest single cyber vandalism warmongers in the world are the Chinese. And the Chinese have been doing this. They've been stealing our weapons. They've been stealing everything that is of merit to us, everything we've created.

The Chinese haven't created anything since the Great Wall of China, and what they've done is steal, mostly from us through cyberattacks. And I consider that cyber war, which is why we ought to get out of there.

PERINO: If that -- if that is going to be cyber war, then this question just came to me. What -- what would you call what Ed Snowden did to America?

GUTFELD: Cyber terror. But you know what? I can't believe I used the word "cyber." I hate that word. It's like it could be applied to everything. You know what I have? I'm having cyber fiber. It's fantastic.

GUILFOYLE: You should. You have some issues.

PERINO: It will make you more regular.

GUTFELD: I do have issues. I'm sorry about that.

GUILFOYLE: I know.

GUTFELD: Bigger question is how will Hollywood make this movie about this incident 20 years from now, when they, the protagonists, are the actual cowards? How are they going to do this? Are they going to hire Oliver Stone, because he knows how to rewrite history, to make it so that they are the heroes? Because they're going to have to.

PERINO: Just wait for the Oscars.

GUILFOYLE: You know what the White House are going to be in this? The good hackers.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: The hackers that find a way to release the film.

GUTFELD: Hollywood has to stop portraying hackers as heroes.

PERINO: Yes, no kidding.

GUILFOYLE: Going to happen.

PERINO: OK, coming up, we know Santa likes reindeer, but if he had to pick another animal to pull his sleigh, would he choose a donkey or an elephant? We'll debate that question next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "ELF")

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tomorrow morning, 10 a.m. Santa's coming to town.

WILL FERRELL, ACTOR: Santa! Oh, my God! Santa's here? I know him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: Yes, Buddy. We're all getting excited about Santa, because he's coming to town very, very soon.

Here's a question for you: Is Santa a Democrat or a Republican?

GUILFOYLE: Interesting.

BECKEL: The Washington Post just asked some folks in the political world for their thoughts.

The chair of the Republican National Committee, Prince -- Preese...

GUILFOYLE: Preese?

PERINO: Reince Priebus.

BECKEL: ... is sure Saint Nick is a Republican. How does he know that? He says, "Imagine a Democrat wearing that much red." Reince, that made no sense at all.

PERINO: Truth.

BECKEL: And adds, "But if you like your gift, you can actually keep your gift."

GUTFELD: So bad (ph).

BECKEL: Whatever that means.

But Democratic consultant Jason Ralston disagrees, saying, "As someone greatly impacted by and deeply concerned about climate change and who has negative views on coal, Santa is clearly a Democrat."

I don't even want to touch this topic. Go ahead.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that was interesting.

BOLLING: OK. So he's obviously -- Santa Claus is obviously a Republican for one reason. one word, accountability. Because you're either naughty or nice. If you're naughty, you get coal. If you're nice, you get good stuff. So liberal: everyone gets a trophy, everyone gets something. If you don't work, don't worry. We're going to take care of you. Santa holds you accountable. If you're good, you get stuff. If you're not, you don't. Sorry. That's a Republican trait.

BECKEL: Go ahead and go right around the table.

PERINO: All right. I've applied my mascot theory to this. I would say that any gift that had anything to do with an elephant is much better than one that has to do with a donkey. Like, if you're a kid, you'd rather get a stuffed elephant than a stuffed donkey. So I'm going to go with that.

GUILFOYLE: Or if you're Greg, you want a unicorn.

PERINO: Sure. You could stick a horn on the donkey, I guess. And then -- whoa. I don't know what you would do with it.

GUTFELD: He's not a Republican or a Democrat. Clearly, he is a libertarian. He gets no help from the government. His charity is private. There are no labor regulations at his workshop, and he loves hallucinogenics.

PERINO: And it's totally unbelievable.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Where are you getting that from?

BOLLING: Where are the hallucinogenics that he loves?

GUTFELD: Do you actually think he lives in the North Pole with these little guys?

BECKEL: Yes.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: It's all in his head.

BECKEL: No, it's not.

You believe in Santa Claus don't you?

GUILFOYLE: I believe in Santa.

BECKEL: Absolutely.

GUILFOYLE: Santa has been very, very good to me.

BECKEL: I think I -- there's no question in my mind he's a Democrat. I'm surprised you guys haven't said that. He gives away things for pretty much free, and you know, that's what Democrats do.

PERINO: But there's merit. You have to be either on -- you're nice or naughty.

BECKEL: Well, that means there's no Republicans.

PERINO: Not everybody's going to get it.

BECKEL: Very few Republicans except the few around this table would qualify.

BOLLING: He doesn't take anything from anyone, though. The Democrat thing is you have to take...

BECKEL: And "One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: All right, time for One More Thing. I'm going to kick it off.

So Saturday morning on "Cashin' In," we made law enforcement our person of the year. Four hours later, those cops were shot, and we feel -- you know, one of the things we did, we rolled this piece of sound -- in one second, don't roll it yet -- that also we said NBC should really reconsider their relationship with the likes of Al Sharpton. This is a big mistake for them, especially after -- in light of what went on.

Here's the sound bite that we rolled on Saturday morning. I think O'Reilly rolled it earlier in the week, but this had our jaws dropping. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMUEL L. JACKSON, ACTOR (singing): Now I'm in the struggle, and I can't leave, calling out the violence of the racist police.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So now two cops are dead. These people need to really think about what they're saying before they utter those words. And I think we all expressed that in our A-block.

All right. K.G., you're up.

GUILFOYLE: OK. So mine's a little uplifting, I think, or I hope so. Because Santa made a surprise -- this is kind of cool -- on an airline. And they said, OK, go on the NORAD system. Make wishes for Santa. And Santa appeared on this Virgin Atlantic flight and gave out some prezzies. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, it's the captain again. If my eyes aren't playing tricks, I think I can actually see a sleigh and a reindeer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Santa! Santa!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Every once in a while you have to focus on the positive, the things that connect us. And joyful moments in life like that, I think we need more of them.

GUTFELD: Was he flying coach?

GUILFOYLE: I think he was comped.

GUTFELD: OK. That makes it -- if he was flying coach, Democrat.

BOLLING: Hopefully, he wasn't flying the plane.

PERINO: No, it was the opposite.

BOLLING: Greg, you're up?

GUTFELD: Just a reminder that tonight, I will be hosting "The Bill O'Reilly Factor."

BOLLING: Any big guests?

GUTFELD: Yes, I'm going to have -- well, there's a little guest, Dana Perino. And Ben Carson is going to be on. I think you know who he is. He's a doctor.

GUILFOYLE: Love Ben Carson.

BOLLING: Bigger. Bigger.

GUTFELD: Bigger? Oh, Bill O'Reilly.

BOLLING: Yes!

GUTFELD: Bill O'Reilly is going to come on. And he -- I'm not kidding. He is one angry man today, and he goes for -- the A-block, you cannot miss it, because he comes on and he don't stop until the segment ends.

GUILFOYLE: Good.

GUTFELD: He's livid. He's livid. He has every right to be.

GUILFOYLE: We've got a great line-up. We get you in. We get Greta in. We've got Hannity in. Just leave it on FOX.

BOLLING: All right. There you go.

Dana, you're up.

PERINO: All right. Well, I told you last week that my alma mater, Colorado State University-Pueblo, they made to it the NCAA Division II finals, the championships for football. And guess what? They shut them out. They shut down Mankato -- University of Minnesota -- who cares, Minnesota State? I'm kidding, I care. Minnesota State University. It's in Mankato. They - - my team beat them 13-0 with, like some, like, major last-minute touchdown or something.

GUILFOYLE: Whoa.

GUTFELD: What does "alma mater" mean? Is it, like, French for something?

PERINO: I don't know.

GUTFELD: Or Spanish?

PERINO: It's like "sold me" (ph).

GUTFELD: Alma mater?

GUILFOYLE: What happened to Mike Perfect over here?

GUTFELD: I don't know.

PERINO: I don't know. But I know that I am really destined for a spot on ESPN with my mean color commentary.

GUILFOYLE: The phone will be ringing at 6.

PERINO: And congratulations, CSU-Pueblo. It's their first national championship.

BOLLING: Fantastic. All right, Bob. You're up.

GUTFELD: It's good that you care.

GUILFOYLE: I like when you do sports.

BECKEL: Can you imagine Perino on the sideline of the NFL game? They wouldn't -- wouldn't see her beyond the water...

GUTFELD: She'd have to do the pee-wee league.

GUILFOYLE: Aww.

BECKEL: On a more serious note...

GUTFELD: Bring out the oranges.

BECKEL: The day of the year that has the most number of heart attacks is now proven to be unquestionably Christmas. Now there's a lot of reasons for that, obviously. A lot of stress, a lot of pressure to buy all these presents, to get everybody there, keep the family happy. People forget what it's all about.

But be careful. If you have any heart problems, if I were you, don't buy any presents.

GUTFELD: Do you think this is -- do you believe this?

BECKEL: Yes, because it goes way, way back. I mean, it goes back for 100- some years.

GUTFELD: I was just thinking -- I mean, we've talked about this. I think it might have to do with people having heart attacks beforehand but not telling you.

PERINO: What do you mean?

GUTFELD: Just waiting until Christmas.

BECKEL: Because they get more presents that way?

GUTFELD: I don't know.

BECKEL: What a horrible thing. Can you imagine having a heart attack right in the middle of the whole family gathering? All of a sudden, boom?

GUTFELD: Yes.

That's also because you're eating so much.

BECKEL: They used to worry about that with me.

GUILFOYLE: Well, because -- and the holidays can be stressful.

BECKEL: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: And some people are lonely, too.

BECKEL: Yes, they are.

GUILFOYLE: So invite someone to your Christmas dinner.

BOLLING: Well, we did eat up that extra minute we had there. Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is up next.

GUILFOYLE: "Special Effect."

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