On June 16 2015 16:37 InVerno wrote:Genuinely interested in how they'll deal with the fanboys bandwagon when the original material is objectively so scarce for 2015 standards. Even the dialogues (of a verbose game) of the original version are not sufficient to fill a 2015 game.

You really think so? FFVII had easily 20-30 hours of game play if you only focused on the story. And well, few people do that in Final Fantasy games. I personally still play FF7 and 9 about once a year, and they hold up great. Give me lots of hours of enjoyment. And aside from the bad translations in FF7, the dialogue is alright. Maybe nostalgia goggles, but I don't think so.

I played it recently (2 years ago) also, aside from the actual lenght of the script (that it's scarce), there're dozens of things very hard to remake in a 2015 game. Gestures for exaples, all the ironical part of the game was made around them. Try to imagine the Don Corneo scene and the gym guys for example, in '90 I probably laughted at that, but imagining that scene with nowadays graphics and expression standards i can only think at a very weird and failed attempt to make me laugh. They have to do it way better than what I can imagine.

You hit the nail on the head.

You guys are acting as if it was even possible to recreate these scenes, though it's not.FF7 was made for an audience that is too mature for today's standards. People get beat up, you start the game in the middle of the slums, surrounded by junkies, and soon enough people are talking of rape while you visit a brothel near the stronghold of a pervert mafia lord who wants to fuck the male hero who's dressed as a woman.

It's. Just. Not. Gonna. Be. The. Same. It's going to be a dumbed down, toned down version, and all the old farts like me with half a brain left are going to be disappointed.

i think you are undererstimating todays audience by a wide margin. if anything, the game would be critisised to take matters like human trafficking or rape too lightly because ff7 had a lot of light hearted and quirky moments that were the opposite of mature.the only thing that might be controversial is that you start your adventure in a terrorist group who blows up a reactor in an urban region with a high chance of a massive amount of civilian casualties and this terrorist group are the good guys and never really questioned.

I also think he underestimates how childish and poorly translated the first game was. There was nothing "adult" or mature about the FF7. Its standard anime saccharin on topics like violence and terrorism, along with a poorly written black character. It was never grimdark, unless you were really young when you played it.

I never said the game was "grimdark".When I'm talking about the audience, I'm talking about the Final Fantasy saga. Of course you have darker games and older audiences! I Have No Mouth, Yet I Must Scream, Manhunt, even the first Diablo was pretty dark. Old farts will appreciate Pillars of Eternity and Baldur's Gate much more, too.

But Final Fantasy is a franchise, a franchise that targets teens with emo quirky character, simple plotlines and tons of fan-service: nothing too bad happens, everything plays out, and everyone looks cool at all times. If you apply this recepee to Final Fantasy VII remake, you simply cannot obtain the same story.

As pointed out above, there are many elements within the storyline that are just too much for a game that targets young audiences. Terrorism ? Human trafficking ? Life in the slums ? War crimes ? Those are key elements in the story and will probably be toned down / taken out. You're left with a story about a group of Greenpeace protesters following a badass samurai with badass long hair, and to be honest it seems enough to please the contemporary Final Fantasy audience.

I.. uh, are you sure you've played Final Fantasy before?

While you purposefully ignored it, other people have pointed out that it would be ridiculous to expect Square Enix to take out the elements you mention. Nowadays, we have (incredibly successful) games like GTA V or The Witcher, where you have obvious sex scenes, killing, hell I'm sure some of the stuff in GTA can easily be qualified as terrorism.

And since when is FF some kid friendly quirky stuff? Were you not there when Sephiroth empaled Aerith? Did you skip through the dialogue in the Village of the Black Mages in FF9? Or perhaps you thought the "spiral of death" theme of FFX was joyful and full of colour?

You lost me a little bit there, I admit.

edit: your video sets a bad example. The Turks did SO much silly stuff in FFVII. There were super cheesy love triangles between them, Elena revealed their plans to the party and was overall a total moron. And this was all done for comic relief.

I'm talking about Final Fantasy in 2015. FF6, FF7 and FF9 are in the past. Yoshitaka Amano's influence decreased as Nomura's obsession for emo teens took over the series. I consider FF7 to be a first turn towards more fan-service (look at Tifa's breasts) and FF10 the last episode of the period. After that, all episodes have gravitated towards more fan-service and more coolness in a "j-pop fantasy" setting that is oddly obsessed with the character's haircuts.

Advent Children is in fact a good example, because it is supposed to represent the same universe as FF7, yet the setting is visibly very different and undeniably childish in comparison. It's not the same target audience.

And I'm not "ignoring" anything, I'm merely stating facts: Mario is set in a franchise that targets a certain young audience, ergo Mario will never kill prostitutes in a game.For the same reasons, even though yes it is in fact possible to create violent, adult games, Final Fantasy, which targets teenagers and children nowadays with a "family friendly" packaging, will not display violence.

If you disagree, look a the "violence" displayed in Advent Children and FF13 or 15. In the most extreme moments, it belongs to mellow shounens, at best, because these are games that are supposed to be family friendly and are marketed for an audience that A) does not like any form of contradiction and demands fan-service and B) is still monitored by parents.

In the end, GTA V, with its grotesque and humorous displays of violence, does not even represent what an "adult" game would look like. The Witcher (first of its name) is much closer to what we're looking for.

On June 16 2015 22:10 {ToT}ColmA wrote:would love to ve a pc version for this, else i ve to buy console :x

Somebody just replied to me saying that there will be a PC version.

I am sure it will come out for other systems at a later date. I doubt it would be possible for the game to be profitable if they didn't try to put it on everything at some point.

ITs also Square, it will come to Android phones too

Mostly because by 2018, im pretty sure Android phones will be as powerfull as the PS4/XB1

I will be surprised if the game is done by 2018.

I agree. It usually takes a long time for SE to go from short CGI teaser to full game :D

If we assume that development has just started(because they never would have announced that port to PS4 8 months ago if they had FF7 Remake in the hopper), it could take 5 years or more. Standard development time for a really good game that isn't annualized in 3-5 years. And this is Square. I could turn 40 before this game hits my PS4.

On June 16 2015 16:37 InVerno wrote:Genuinely interested in how they'll deal with the fanboys bandwagon when the original material is objectively so scarce for 2015 standards. Even the dialogues (of a verbose game) of the original version are not sufficient to fill a 2015 game.

You really think so? FFVII had easily 20-30 hours of game play if you only focused on the story. And well, few people do that in Final Fantasy games. I personally still play FF7 and 9 about once a year, and they hold up great. Give me lots of hours of enjoyment. And aside from the bad translations in FF7, the dialogue is alright. Maybe nostalgia goggles, but I don't think so.

I played it recently (2 years ago) also, aside from the actual lenght of the script (that it's scarce), there're dozens of things very hard to remake in a 2015 game. Gestures for exaples, all the ironical part of the game was made around them. Try to imagine the Don Corneo scene and the gym guys for example, in '90 I probably laughted at that, but imagining that scene with nowadays graphics and expression standards i can only think at a very weird and failed attempt to make me laugh. They have to do it way better than what I can imagine.

You hit the nail on the head.

You guys are acting as if it was even possible to recreate these scenes, though it's not.FF7 was made for an audience that is too mature for today's standards. People get beat up, you start the game in the middle of the slums, surrounded by junkies, and soon enough people are talking of rape while you visit a brothel near the stronghold of a pervert mafia lord who wants to fuck the male hero who's dressed as a woman.

It's. Just. Not. Gonna. Be. The. Same. It's going to be a dumbed down, toned down version, and all the old farts like me with half a brain left are going to be disappointed.

i think you are undererstimating todays audience by a wide margin. if anything, the game would be critisised to take matters like human trafficking or rape too lightly because ff7 had a lot of light hearted and quirky moments that were the opposite of mature.the only thing that might be controversial is that you start your adventure in a terrorist group who blows up a reactor in an urban region with a high chance of a massive amount of civilian casualties and this terrorist group are the good guys and never really questioned.

I also think he underestimates how childish and poorly translated the first game was. There was nothing "adult" or mature about the FF7. Its standard anime saccharin on topics like violence and terrorism, along with a poorly written black character. It was never grimdark, unless you were really young when you played it.

I never said the game was "grimdark".When I'm talking about the audience, I'm talking about the Final Fantasy saga. Of course you have darker games and older audiences! I Have No Mouth, Yet I Must Scream, Manhunt, even the first Diablo was pretty dark. Old farts will appreciate Pillars of Eternity and Baldur's Gate much more, too.

But Final Fantasy is a franchise, a franchise that targets teens with emo quirky character, simple plotlines and tons of fan-service: nothing too bad happens, everything plays out, and everyone looks cool at all times. If you apply this recepee to Final Fantasy VII remake, you simply cannot obtain the same story.

As pointed out above, there are many elements within the storyline that are just too much for a game that targets young audiences. Terrorism ? Human trafficking ? Life in the slums ? War crimes ? Those are key elements in the story and will probably be toned down / taken out. You're left with a story about a group of Greenpeace protesters following a badass samurai with badass long hair, and to be honest it seems enough to please the contemporary Final Fantasy audience.

If you think potentially offensive elements will be toned down, I think you vastly underestimate the Japanese developers' attitude of not giving a shit about offending others over politics and political correctness.

On June 16 2015 16:37 InVerno wrote:Genuinely interested in how they'll deal with the fanboys bandwagon when the original material is objectively so scarce for 2015 standards. Even the dialogues (of a verbose game) of the original version are not sufficient to fill a 2015 game.

You really think so? FFVII had easily 20-30 hours of game play if you only focused on the story. And well, few people do that in Final Fantasy games. I personally still play FF7 and 9 about once a year, and they hold up great. Give me lots of hours of enjoyment. And aside from the bad translations in FF7, the dialogue is alright. Maybe nostalgia goggles, but I don't think so.

I played it recently (2 years ago) also, aside from the actual lenght of the script (that it's scarce), there're dozens of things very hard to remake in a 2015 game. Gestures for exaples, all the ironical part of the game was made around them. Try to imagine the Don Corneo scene and the gym guys for example, in '90 I probably laughted at that, but imagining that scene with nowadays graphics and expression standards i can only think at a very weird and failed attempt to make me laugh. They have to do it way better than what I can imagine.

You hit the nail on the head.

You guys are acting as if it was even possible to recreate these scenes, though it's not.FF7 was made for an audience that is too mature for today's standards. People get beat up, you start the game in the middle of the slums, surrounded by junkies, and soon enough people are talking of rape while you visit a brothel near the stronghold of a pervert mafia lord who wants to fuck the male hero who's dressed as a woman.

It's. Just. Not. Gonna. Be. The. Same. It's going to be a dumbed down, toned down version, and all the old farts like me with half a brain left are going to be disappointed.

i think you are undererstimating todays audience by a wide margin. if anything, the game would be critisised to take matters like human trafficking or rape too lightly because ff7 had a lot of light hearted and quirky moments that were the opposite of mature.the only thing that might be controversial is that you start your adventure in a terrorist group who blows up a reactor in an urban region with a high chance of a massive amount of civilian casualties and this terrorist group are the good guys and never really questioned.

I also think he underestimates how childish and poorly translated the first game was. There was nothing "adult" or mature about the FF7. Its standard anime saccharin on topics like violence and terrorism, along with a poorly written black character. It was never grimdark, unless you were really young when you played it.

As pointed out above, there are many elements within the storyline that are just too much for a game that targets young audiences. Terrorism ? Human trafficking ? Life in the slums ? War crimes ? Those are key elements in the story and will probably be toned down / taken out.

why is it too much for a game like this? all these things are FREQUENTLY in other games.

Target audiences. You don't just "make a game". You develop a game for a certain audience and try to preserve a certain image for your franchise.

Square Enix has shown lately that it targets young teens between the age of 10 and 20. They have no interest whatsoever in throwing what they did the past 15 years away and suddenly change the franchise's image just to respect the setting of the original FF7. If they wanted to respect the original game, they wouldn't have made Before Crisis, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus and Advent Children the way they did. And yet they did. Today, Final Fantasy and Naruto go hand in hand.

Plus, Nomura is still in charge and stockholders are backing him. Don't be deluded.

On June 16 2015 23:36 wongfeihung wrote:If you think potentially offensive elements will be toned down, I think you vastly underestimate the Japanese developers' attitude of not giving a shit about offending others over politics and political correctness.

Weirdest thing I've heard today.One word: Nintendo. One of the strongest censorship machines in the video game world. Japanese do give a shit about political correctness. About their own political correctness, true.

Besides, you can't be much more politically correct than Final Fantasy XIII. Nowadays, there could not be a second Aerith, simply because if there is something Japanese developers care about more than political correctness, it's the audience's feelings. Everything has to be easy and cool and badass, and the plot has to be one giant Mary Sue fantasy.

When is the last time you've actually felt any sort of emotion when playing a Final Fantasy game? It has just as much emotions as a Pirates of the Caribbean movie.

On June 16 2015 22:10 {ToT}ColmA wrote:would love to ve a pc version for this, else i ve to buy console :x

Somebody just replied to me saying that there will be a PC version.

I am sure it will come out for other systems at a later date. I doubt it would be possible for the game to be profitable if they didn't try to put it on everything at some point.

ITs also Square, it will come to Android phones too

Mostly because by 2018, im pretty sure Android phones will be as powerfull as the PS4/XB1

I will be surprised if the game is done by 2018.

I agree. It usually takes a long time for SE to go from short CGI teaser to full game :D

If we assume that development has just started(because they never would have announced that port to PS4 8 months ago if they had FF7 Remake in the hopper), it could take 5 years or more. Standard development time for a really good game that isn't annualized in 3-5 years. And this is Square. I could turn 40 before this game hits my PS4.

Or they will shock me and it will come out in 2 years because magic.

This also depends on how much of a remake this is. If it's just a graphical overhaul, it could be shorter than a standard developement process. I kinda hope they take some liberties around area and world map design. Imo the whole "limited individual area + empty world map" is a bit outdated on PS4.

I also hope they don't decide halfway through to switch to targetting the next console. Though it would be a bit silly for a PS1 remake, they probably don't need whatever the next-gen's gonna bring :D.

On June 16 2015 16:37 InVerno wrote:Genuinely interested in how they'll deal with the fanboys bandwagon when the original material is objectively so scarce for 2015 standards. Even the dialogues (of a verbose game) of the original version are not sufficient to fill a 2015 game.

You really think so? FFVII had easily 20-30 hours of game play if you only focused on the story. And well, few people do that in Final Fantasy games. I personally still play FF7 and 9 about once a year, and they hold up great. Give me lots of hours of enjoyment. And aside from the bad translations in FF7, the dialogue is alright. Maybe nostalgia goggles, but I don't think so.

I played it recently (2 years ago) also, aside from the actual lenght of the script (that it's scarce), there're dozens of things very hard to remake in a 2015 game. Gestures for exaples, all the ironical part of the game was made around them. Try to imagine the Don Corneo scene and the gym guys for example, in '90 I probably laughted at that, but imagining that scene with nowadays graphics and expression standards i can only think at a very weird and failed attempt to make me laugh. They have to do it way better than what I can imagine.

You hit the nail on the head.

You guys are acting as if it was even possible to recreate these scenes, though it's not.FF7 was made for an audience that is too mature for today's standards. People get beat up, you start the game in the middle of the slums, surrounded by junkies, and soon enough people are talking of rape while you visit a brothel near the stronghold of a pervert mafia lord who wants to fuck the male hero who's dressed as a woman.

It's. Just. Not. Gonna. Be. The. Same. It's going to be a dumbed down, toned down version, and all the old farts like me with half a brain left are going to be disappointed.

i think you are undererstimating todays audience by a wide margin. if anything, the game would be critisised to take matters like human trafficking or rape too lightly because ff7 had a lot of light hearted and quirky moments that were the opposite of mature.the only thing that might be controversial is that you start your adventure in a terrorist group who blows up a reactor in an urban region with a high chance of a massive amount of civilian casualties and this terrorist group are the good guys and never really questioned.

I also think he underestimates how childish and poorly translated the first game was. There was nothing "adult" or mature about the FF7. Its standard anime saccharin on topics like violence and terrorism, along with a poorly written black character. It was never grimdark, unless you were really young when you played it.

As pointed out above, there are many elements within the storyline that are just too much for a game that targets young audiences. Terrorism ? Human trafficking ? Life in the slums ? War crimes ? Those are key elements in the story and will probably be toned down / taken out.

why is it too much for a game like this? all these things are FREQUENTLY in other games.

Target audiences. You don't just "make a game". You develop a game for a certain audience and try to preserve a certain image for your franchise.

Square Enix has shown lately that it targets young teens between the age of 10 and 20. They have no interest whatsoever in throwing what they did the past 15 years away and suddenly change the franchise's image just to respect the setting of the original FF7. If they wanted to respect the original game, they wouldn't have made Before Crisis, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus and Advent Children the way they did. And yet they did. Today, Final Fantasy and Naruto go hand in hand.

Plus, Nomura is still in charge and stockholders are backing him. Don't be deluded.

On June 16 2015 23:36 wongfeihung wrote:If you think potentially offensive elements will be toned down, I think you vastly underestimate the Japanese developers' attitude of not giving a shit about offending others over politics and political correctness.

Weirdest thing I've heard today.One word: Nintendo. One of the strongest censorship machines in the video game world. Japanese do give a shit about political correctness. About their own political correctness, true.

Besides, you can't be much more politically correct than Final Fantasy XIII. Nowadays, there could not be a second Aerith, simply because if there is something Japanese developers care about more than political correctness, it's the audience's feelings. Everything has to be easy and cool and badass, and the plot has to be one giant Mary Sue fantasy.

When is the last time you've actually felt any sort of emotion when playing a Final Fantasy game? It has just as much emotions as a Pirates of the Caribbean movie.

You should play FFXIV. It's a lot more mature and closer to the "old" FFs. Having played it extensively, I'm hopeful SE won't mangle FFVII by toning it down to death.

i'm not really with you on this Kukarachaff7 always had a realistic mix of both sombreness and lightheartedness aeris was bubbly and sexy, the younger turks were a bit goofy, cloud was a little comically awkwardi thought ffac remastered captured it very well and was mostly on the sombre side!!

what you say about the slums is quite impactful tho. the slums never really stood out as being a super bad place to me. people got by. it was only really barret who felt super strongly about making change come about. if anything a remake with dose graphics would portray the slums as being MORE slumlike to me (and idk if thats a good thing, since i am following clouds story and he doesnt really give a shit since he just sees whats on the surface like i do)

idk, i think they will do a great job, infact i'm willing to bet £1000 that i don't have on it

so long as they dont

+ make it like ff13 with 5 straight hours of walking and listening to the same fucking dialogue line for no reason between scenes

+ give it bulky combat system like ff13 where u pound away for 2 minutes straight on the same npc, this is not satisfying.

On June 16 2015 23:53 FFGenerations wrote:i'm not really with you on this Kukarachaff7 always had a realistic mix of both sombreness and lightheartedness aeris was bubbly and sexy, the younger turks were a bit goofy, cloud was a little comically awkwardi thought ffac remastered captured it very well and was mostly on the sombre side!!

On June 16 2015 23:53 FFGenerations wrote:i'm not really with you on this Kukarachaff7 always had a realistic mix of both sombreness and lightheartedness aeris was bubbly and sexy, the younger turks were a bit goofy, cloud was a little comically awkwardi thought ffac remastered captured it very well and was mostly on the sombre side!!

On June 16 2015 23:53 FFGenerations wrote:i'm not really with you on this Kukarachaff7 always had a realistic mix of both sombreness and lightheartedness aeris was bubbly and sexy, the younger turks were a bit goofy, cloud was a little comically awkwardi thought ffac remastered captured it very well and was mostly on the sombre side!!

No mention of Cait Sith?!

Or Yuffie? I doubt they will need to change anything about FF7's plot beyond Barrett's terrible, dated and super-token-black-guy-as-seen-through-the-eyes-of-Japan dialog.

In the end it's pretty difficult to argue about tastes, to each his own. If we get back to the initial argument, it's pretty simple: the remake will probably be very, very different, if anything because of practical and technological reasons. I see people left and right expecting a simple 3D revamp but I'll bet my money that it's not what we're going to see.

On June 17 2015 00:38 MidnightGladius wrote:FF7 being among the first games I remember playing, I would be so sad if they hedged their bets here and watered down their product for target audience considerations.

FF7 is far more accessible and standard than the later FF games. I don't think anyone needs to worry about it being watered down. Square has not really gone down the path of simplifying or even streamlining their RPGs.