MM is hands down THE BEST music manager I have ever used! I have a lifetime license (SINCE MM3) and could care less about the opportunity lost for purchasing it. In the age of Spotify and all... I am just glad that MM allows ME to control, OWN and sync ,my music! THANKS MM TEAM!

MM is hands down THE BEST music manager I have ever used! I have a lifetime license (SINCE MM3) and could care less about the opportunity lost for purchasing it. In the age of Spotify and all... I am just glad that MM allows ME to control, OWN and sync ,my music! THANKS MM TEAM!

Well, I don't think anyone will convince anyone else as to whether the Ventis licensing approach and release/upgrade schedule is satisfactory. Some of us are happy with it, and clearly @mattiasNYC is not.

IMHO, there is no right or wrong here. I've never yet found a business that can satisfy *all* its customers. And for some, this is probably not the right product.

Agreed.

[quote=dmcritchie post_id=459368 time=1560706884 user_id=70286]Well, I don't think anyone will convince anyone else as to whether the Ventis licensing approach and release/upgrade schedule is satisfactory. Some of us are happy with it, and clearly @mattiasNYC is not.

IMHO, there is no right or wrong here. I've never yet found a business that can satisfy *all* its customers. And for some, this is probably not the right product.[/quote]

Well, I don't think anyone will convince anyone else as to whether the Ventis licensing approach and release/upgrade schedule is satisfactory. Some of us are happy with it, and clearly @mattiasNYC is not.

IMHO, there is no right or wrong here. I've never yet found a business that can satisfy *all* its customers. And for some, this is probably not the right product.

Well, I don't think anyone will convince anyone else as to whether the Ventis licensing approach and release/upgrade schedule is satisfactory. Some of us are happy with it, and clearly @mattiasNYC is not.

IMHO, there is no right or wrong here. I've never yet found a business that can satisfy *all* its customers. And for some, this is probably not the right product.

The difference being that the companies that I support and have invested in by buying their products don't take close to a decade to release their new version, and once they announce a new version they don't take even over a year to get that out. I suppose we have different expectations on what is reasonable here.

Would you be happier if there were major releases every year, forcing regular licences to expire frequently? Maybe we could have MMW2017, MMW2018, MMW2019, MMW2020, each forcing you to buy a new licence even though very little has changed.

Nobody is forced to upgrade with normal software companies. You buy a license, it is perpetual for the version you are on. If a new version comes out in 6 months or 6 years makes no difference to that license, it's still valid and there's no "force" to upgrade, just an option.

Or adopt Google Chrome's approach (v75 in 10 years) and say that every little bug fix is a major version and therefore the old licence doesn't cover the new version.

So in your view it's either one or the other? That's a very limited view of how things work.

Like I said, the companies that I support and have invested in provide me with updates every 12-18 months. When the new ones are release they contain major feature upgrades. I'm not forced to upgrade, I can do so by choice. These companies typically also offer a grace period for those who bought the previous version close to the release of the new one, as well as offer discounts for upgrades as opposed to new purchases.

Further more any company with a good reputation will support the current and previous version with bug fixes for some reasonable amount of time, which has been my experience. There are exceptions, but they're really tarnishing the reputation of the company and they do their best to avoid that.

Ventis has been most reasonable in making the V4 license last so long so that users don't have to pay extra, but the benefit of the lifetime license is in the name; it lasts a lifetime. Even though MM4 has lasted nearly 8 years now, the lifetime license will still cover you for the next 20+ years.

You're not paying attention it seems. The issue isn't with the concept of a lifetime license, it's with the long time before a new release. Who cares one bit if you get a lifetime license that lasts for 20+ years if the next release is in 20 years? It's not even about the money at that point.

And it would have been "nicer" and more "honest" (please note the "") to have simply provided either a "donate" button for users like you and others to donate to future development without any 'strings attached', or made the next version a GoFundMe project. Those options would have been more "up front" in my opinion.

GoFundMe didn't even exist until at least 7 years after Ventis started selling lifetime licenses.

So?

Now it exists. Donating was a possible option long before GoFundMe. Don't get hung up on one mechanism for donation. It's about the principle.

[quote=rivorson post_id=459135 time=1560037825 user_id=67665][quote=mattiasNYC post_id=459113 time=1560008683 user_id=8228]The difference being that the companies that I support and have invested in by buying their products don't take close to a decade to release their new version, and once they announce a new version they don't take even over a year to get that out. I suppose we have different expectations on what is reasonable here.[/quote]

Would you be happier if there were major releases every year, forcing regular licences to expire frequently? Maybe we could have MMW2017, MMW2018, MMW2019, MMW2020, each forcing you to buy a new licence even though very little has changed.[/quote]

Nobody is forced to upgrade with normal software companies. You buy a license, it is perpetual for the version you are on. If a new version comes out in 6 months or 6 years makes no difference to that license, it's still valid and there's no "force" to upgrade, just an option.

[quote=rivorson post_id=459135 time=1560037825 user_id=67665]Or adopt Google Chrome's approach (v75 in 10 years) and say that every little bug fix is a major version and therefore the old licence doesn't cover the new version.[/quote]

So in your view it's either one or the other? That's a very limited view of how things work.

Like I said, the companies that I support and have invested in provide me with updates every 12-18 months. When the new ones are release they contain major feature upgrades. I'm not forced to upgrade, I can do so by choice. These companies typically also offer a grace period for those who bought the previous version close to the release of the new one, as well as offer discounts for upgrades as opposed to new purchases.

Further more any company with a good reputation will support the current and previous version with bug fixes for some reasonable amount of time, which has been my experience. There are exceptions, but they're really tarnishing the reputation of the company and they do their best to avoid that.

So it's not black or white. There's a better way of doing this.

[quote=rivorson post_id=459135 time=1560037825 user_id=67665]Ventis has been most reasonable in making the V4 license last so long so that users don't have to pay extra, but the benefit of the lifetime license is in the name; it lasts a lifetime. Even though MM4 has lasted nearly 8 years now, the lifetime license will still cover you for the next 20+ years. [/quote]

You're not paying attention it seems. The issue isn't with the concept of a lifetime license, it's with the long time before a new release. Who cares one bit if you get a lifetime license that lasts for 20+ years if the next release is in 20 years? It's not even about the money at that point.

[quote=rivorson post_id=459135 time=1560037825 user_id=67665][quote=mattiasNYC post_id=459115 time=1560009021 user_id=8228]And it would have been "nicer" and more "honest" (please note the "") to have simply provided either a "donate" button for users like you and others to donate to future development without any 'strings attached', or made the next version a GoFundMe project. Those options would have been more "up front" in my opinion.[/quote]GoFundMe didn't even exist until at least 7 years after Ventis started selling lifetime licenses.[/quote]

So?

Now it exists. Donating was a possible option long before GoFundMe. Don't get hung up on one mechanism for donation. It's about the principle.

If you think you might switch to different software in the next few years then a single version license is probably the correct choice for you.

Yes, just so. I remember when I decided to purchase the lifetime license that I had decided to hitch my wagon to MM and not look back. I had looked at other contenders, found MM to be the best for me at the time (in part because of syncing with MMA), and didn't want to have to move my collection to another product in the future.

So even though I didn't know when the lifetime license would pay off, I viewed at as support for the product team during an active growth and development period, and hoped it would help in a small way ensure that the product would continue to be around for as long as I would be.

Dennis

[quote]If you think you might switch to different software in the next few years then a single version license is probably the correct choice for you.[/quote]

Yes, just so. I remember when I decided to purchase the lifetime license that I had decided to hitch my wagon to MM and not look back. I had looked at other contenders, found MM to be the best for me at the time (in part because of syncing with MMA), and didn't want to have to move my collection to another product in the future.

So even though I didn't know when the lifetime license would pay off, I viewed at as support for the product team during an active growth and development period, and hoped it would help in a small way ensure that the product would continue to be around for as long as I would be. :-)

Honestly, I understand the appeal of paying as little as possible as a consumer. I want to make my money stretch as far as it can just the same as anyone else.

Ventis has been very good in stretching the value of the MM4 license to last so long. Maybe the MM5 license will last even longer, or maybe an unexpected change in the way that we consume media will force an early switch to MM6.

If you think you might switch to different software in the next few years then a single version license is probably the correct choice for you. Or maybe you have a Spotify/Deezer/Tidal subscription and you won't be interested in owning your own music in two years.

Honestly, I understand the appeal of paying as little as possible as a consumer. I want to make my money stretch as far as it can just the same as anyone else.

Ventis has been very good in stretching the value of the MM4 license to last so long. Maybe the MM5 license will last even longer, or maybe an unexpected change in the way that we consume media will force an early switch to MM6.

If you think you might switch to different software in the next few years then a single version license is probably the correct choice for you. Or maybe you have a Spotify/Deezer/Tidal subscription and you won't be interested in owning your own music in two years.

The difference being that the companies that I support and have invested in by buying their products don't take close to a decade to release their new version, and once they announce a new version they don't take even over a year to get that out. I suppose we have different expectations on what is reasonable here.

Would you be happier if there were major releases every year, forcing regular licences to expire frequently? Maybe we could have MMW2017, MMW2018, MMW2019, MMW2020, each forcing you to buy a new licence even though very little has changed.
Or adopt Google Chrome's approach (v75 in 10 years) and say that every little bug fix is a major version and therefore the old licence doesn't cover the new version.

Ventis has been most reasonable in making the V4 license last so long so that users don't have to pay extra, but the benefit of the lifetime license is in the name; it lasts a lifetime. Even though MM4 has lasted nearly 8 years now, the lifetime license will still cover you for the next 20+ years. Compare that to the SaaS model being adopted by Microsoft, Adobe, and many other companies where you have to pay every month just to keep using the software that you already have.
With MediaMonkey if you have a V4 licence and don't want to buy the V5 licence then you can still use MM4 forever. With MS Office365 if you stop paying then you lose access to the software.

And it would have been "nicer" and more "honest" (please note the "") to have simply provided either a "donate" button for users like you and others to donate to future development without any 'strings attached', or made the next version a GoFundMe project. Those options would have been more "up front" in my opinion.

GoFundMe didn't even exist until at least 7 years after Ventis started selling lifetime licenses.

[quote=mattiasNYC post_id=459113 time=1560008683 user_id=8228]The difference being that the companies that I support and have invested in by buying their products don't take close to a decade to release their new version, and once they announce a new version they don't take even over a year to get that out. I suppose we have different expectations on what is reasonable here.[/quote]

Would you be happier if there were major releases every year, forcing regular licences to expire frequently? Maybe we could have MMW2017, MMW2018, MMW2019, MMW2020, each forcing you to buy a new licence even though very little has changed.Or adopt Google Chrome's approach (v75 in 10 years) and say that every little bug fix is a major version and therefore the old licence doesn't cover the new version.

Ventis has been most reasonable in making the V4 license last so long so that users don't have to pay extra, but the benefit of the lifetime license is in the name; it lasts a lifetime. Even though MM4 has lasted nearly 8 years now, the lifetime license will still cover you for the next 20+ years. Compare that to the SaaS model being adopted by Microsoft, Adobe, and many other companies where you have to pay every month just to keep using the software that you already have.With MediaMonkey if you have a V4 licence and don't want to buy the V5 licence then you can still use MM4 forever. With MS Office365 if you stop paying then you lose access to the software.

[quote=mattiasNYC post_id=459115 time=1560009021 user_id=8228]And it would have been "nicer" and more "honest" (please note the "") to have simply provided either a "donate" button for users like you and others to donate to future development without any 'strings attached', or made the next version a GoFundMe project. Those options would have been more "up front" in my opinion.[/quote]GoFundMe didn't even exist until at least 7 years after Ventis started selling lifetime licenses.

I agree .. i bought a lifetime mainly as support for the MM crew. MM4 has been updated for as long as I have had it and when 5 comes out it will be a break having bought the lifetime license.

And it would have been "nicer" and more "honest" (please note the "") to have simply provided either a "donate" button for users like you and others to donate to future development without any 'strings attached', or made the next version a GoFundMe project. Those options would have been more "up front" in my opinion.

[quote=dtsig post_id=459012 time=1559685940 user_id=41697]I agree .. i bought a lifetime mainly as support for the MM crew. MM4 has been updated for as long as I have had it and when 5 comes out it will be a break having bought the lifetime license.[/quote]

And it would have been "nicer" and more "honest" (please note the "") to have simply provided either a "donate" button for users like you and others to donate to future development without any 'strings attached', or made the next version a GoFundMe project. Those options would have been more "up front" in my opinion.

As a long-time lifetime user of MMW, I don't understand the user's complaint. As Lowlander stated, MMW is regularly updated. So it doesn't bother me that the major version called MMW 5 will come a decade after MMW 4 first came out. Improvements and of course bug fixes are added to MMW 4 regularly, and I don't have any grounds for complaint, contrary to the unhappy user's assumption.

Very good product, and well supported.

Thanks,
Dennis

Ok, well since you don't understand the complaint I guess I'll spell it out for you:

Over the course of this decade before v5 comes out, what's the difference in user experience between you and someone who didn't buy a lifetime license? The answer is the other person paid less.

So you can be happy about v4 being regularly updated, and so can the person who didn't buy the lifetime license. There's no difference there. The only difference is you paid money up front for something that won't be realized for years and years despite "promises" whereas the other person didn't.

[quote=dmcritchie post_id=459001 time=1559672261 user_id=70286]As a long-time lifetime user of MMW, I don't understand the user's complaint. As Lowlander stated, MMW is regularly updated. So it doesn't bother me that the major version called MMW 5 will come a decade after MMW 4 first came out. Improvements and of course bug fixes are added to MMW 4 regularly, and I don't have any grounds for complaint, contrary to the unhappy user's assumption.

Very good product, and well supported.

Thanks,Dennis[/quote]

Ok, well since you don't understand the complaint I guess I'll spell it out for you:

Over the course of this decade before v5 comes out, what's the difference in user experience between you and someone who didn't buy a lifetime license? The answer is the other person paid less.

So you can be happy about v4 being regularly updated, and so can the person who didn't buy the lifetime license. There's no difference there. The only difference is you paid money up front for something that won't be realized for years and years despite "promises" whereas the other person didn't.

Of course the forum is littered with coming in the future promises and impatient users about when that future will come. This is the same for all software I use, no matter if they frequently release major releases or take 20 years to get to the 1.0 release, or if it's a 1 person business or a global enterprise.

The difference being that the companies that I support and have invested in by buying their products don't take close to a decade to release their new version, and once they announce a new version they don't take even over a year to get that out. I suppose we have different expectations on what is reasonable here.

[quote=Lowlander post_id=458573 time=1558377409 user_id=262]Of course the forum is littered with coming in the future promises and impatient users about when that future will come. This is the same for all software I use, no matter if they frequently release major releases or take 20 years to get to the 1.0 release, or if it's a 1 person business or a global enterprise.[/quote]

The difference being that the companies that I support and have invested in by buying their products don't take close to a decade to release their new version, and once they announce a new version they don't take even over a year to get that out. I suppose we have different expectations on what is reasonable here.

As a long-time lifetime user of MMW, I don't understand the user's complaint. As Lowlander stated, MMW is regularly updated. So it doesn't bother me that the major version called MMW 5 will come a decade after MMW 4 first came out. Improvements and of course bug fixes are added to MMW 4 regularly, and I don't have any grounds for complaint, contrary to the unhappy user's assumption.

Very good product, and well supported.

Thanks,
Dennis

As a long-time lifetime user of MMW, I don't understand the user's complaint. As Lowlander stated, MMW is regularly updated. So it doesn't bother me that the major version called MMW 5 will come a decade after MMW 4 first came out. Improvements and of course bug fixes are added to MMW 4 regularly, and I don't have any grounds for complaint, contrary to the unhappy user's assumption.

As many companies don't survive a decade, they either fold or get bought out and discontinued by the big guys, I'm happy that anything I purchase lasts that long. Especially when dealing with really small companies like Ventis Media.

Of course the forum is littered with coming in the future promises and impatient users about when that future will come. This is the same for all software I use, no matter if they frequently release major releases or take 20 years to get to the 1.0 release, or if it's a 1 person business or a global enterprise.

MediaMonkey continues to be supported, issues keep being fixed (only few have been delayed to 5.0 due to limitations of 4.0 or complexity of fix), new final releases come out with regularity. When it comes to new features you'll still have plenty of disappointed users with MediaMonkey 5 that their feature wasn't included.

And yes, of course different users have different expectations about a release schedule. You've got the option to purchase either a version of Lifetime License.

As many companies don't survive a decade, they either fold or get bought out and discontinued by the big guys, I'm happy that anything I purchase lasts that long. Especially when dealing with really small companies like Ventis Media.

Of course the forum is littered with coming in the future promises and impatient users about when that future will come. This is the same for all software I use, no matter if they frequently release major releases or take 20 years to get to the 1.0 release, or if it's a 1 person business or a global enterprise.

MediaMonkey continues to be supported, issues keep being fixed (only few have been delayed to 5.0 due to limitations of 4.0 or complexity of fix), new final releases come out with [url=https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8811&sd=d]regularity[/url]. When it comes to new features you'll still have plenty of disappointed users with MediaMonkey 5 that their feature wasn't included.

And yes, of course different users have different expectations about a release schedule. You've got the option to purchase either a version of Lifetime License.

It's not about what you call a version, it's about what's supported and what you're reasonably expecting.

If I promoted a software to you and said: "Hey, you can pay $25 now and get support for this version, or you can pay $50 and get support for this version and then in about 10 years I'll let you upgrade to the next one for free!" what you would you think about that? Would you feel comfortable paying double the amount for maybe getting a new version a decade later? How about if you expected to get the new version within a year or two? Makes a difference for most people I bet.

Everybody understands and agrees with the concept of a lifetime license that includes all future upgrades. That's not the point. And the point is also not how you number a version. The point is whether or not there's a good faith effort to provide the future FULLY SUPPORTED version (without Beta-caveats) within a reasonable amount of time. Close to a decade isn't reasonable for anybody but a diehard fan.

As for "promises", I'm betting if I go through some threads here I'm going to see 'coming soon' more than once.. do you think I will?

It's not about what you call a version, it's about what's supported and what you're reasonably expecting.

If I promoted a software to you and said: [i]"Hey, you can pay $25 now and get support for this version, or you can pay $50 and get support for this version and then in about 10 years I'll let you upgrade to the next one for free!" [/i]what you would you think about that? Would you feel comfortable paying double the amount for [i]maybe[/i] getting a new version a decade later? How about if you expected to get the new version within a year or two? Makes a difference for most people I bet.

Everybody understands and agrees with the concept of a lifetime license that includes all future upgrades. That's not the point. And the point is also not how you number a version. The point is whether or not there's a good faith effort to provide the future FULLY SUPPORTED version (without Beta-caveats) within a reasonable amount of time. Close to a decade isn't reasonable for anybody but a diehard fan.

As for "promises", I'm betting if I go through some threads here I'm going to see 'coming soon' more than once.. do you think I will?