Thursday, March 3, 2011

One of the the many "trans-academic" lists I'm on posted this recently:

Even trans academics admit and as indicated here are now teaching that trans individuals are "performing" there chosen sex rather than actually be BORN trans. Actually according to trans academics"performing" trans(male/female) is the same as those who "perform" animality, species modification,(and) racialization. Meaningthere is no difference between a person who uses drugs and cosmetic surgeries to perform being a white person to that of being black, a human to that of being a lion or a female to that of being a man. It is ALL a PERFORMANCE! The body then is used as a stage to exorcise mental illnesses and utilizes the male medical machine for props in order to bring about some realness to the character being performed.

If the smartest of the smart, trans "intellectuals" admit that their idea of themselves as "man" or "woman" (or beast) is nothing more than a stage act, what does this mentally diseased performance have to do with gay and lesbian rights, gay and lesbian spaces or gay and lesbian lives?? Lives which do NOT require mutilative props or mind and body altering drugs to half approximate who and what we are? The trans community's attachment to the gay and lesbian community along with the trans performative life reinforces to the general public that gay and lesbian too are nothing more than performances, nothing more than sick choices. Is it any wonder we're a second decade into the 21st century and most states still do not support gays and lesbians marrying? Yet interestingly trans performers legally performing their chosen sex can marry their same sex partner. Hmmm.....

As a lesbian, what stride, what legal hurdles has the trans community helped us to achieve??

95 comments:

slieb said it: gender is performance and if you want a really clear view of what that performance leads to for FtMs, check out Loren Cameron's descent from woman to butt boy to longshoremen. "He" is now a gay bottom getting it in both holes by men. You think you won't be raped if you transition - read the interview in The Advocate. Men with real dicks will still see you as the scum of the earth, valuable for just one thing. That means to avoid that fate you'll have to lie the whole. rest. of. your. life. Some of you seem to be counting on that lesbians will let you keep hanging around. Wrong. We're getting tired of your whiny, cowardly, women-hating ways and we're starting to kick you out of our communities. You think all those genderqueers will be around much longer? They'll grow up, get jobs, and go the way every generation before them has gone - into generic lives looking like everyone else, choosing the standard male or female. And there you'll be, butchered, maimed, and an outcast. Or you can grow up now, accept your sex, and do something useful with your life.

Damn, NONE of that ad made sense to me, unless they're talking about those freaks who now want to transition into an animal(surgical implants on their faces to look like cats), or who want some melanin injected into them so now they can look like Black folks. If they do that, I wonder what REAL BIOLOGICAL Black Folks will think of whiteys now playing Black,when they suffered a lifetime of oppression under white supremacy and racism....not much different than whitey going on about being an Indian, when REAL Native Americans are tired of whiteys coopting their rites and charging huge amounts for workshops teaching their sacred rites,while Natives starve or die from alcoholism and disease and lack of opportunity on Native lands that are no better in condition than many 3rd world countries.

Hmm..much the same could be said for bio female Dykes and women....and that same cooptation.

@ dirti disagree. while i cannot rightfully speak for the entire trans community, my personal trans identity has nothing to do with my sex, and being transgender, to me, does not mean trying to convince people i was born into a male-sexed body, it's about getting people to treat me socially the way i want to be treated and finding satisfaction in myself and in my body.

I have a question for you Dirt. Though I know this might be off topic for the current "discussion," I was curious about your opinion on something...I'm a pretty neutral party. I'm a lesbian feminist who likes to bind. It has pretty much absolutely nothing to do with wanting to be a guy but has more to do with being comfortable with how I am portrayed by the public. I have no desire to transition but is my binding, in your eyes, still seen as being misogynistic? The reason I ask is because I find a lot of what you say as being informative and at times, in my mind, correct. I would hope that you have respect for women, who also identify as women, who dislike their chest for reasons other than wanting to be a "guy."

Sometimes I think you all are just pissed that you missed the age window for transitioning. Now you are too old, or have hips that are too fat, or whatever. Such hatred could never come from anything but jealous bitterness.

"Women who want to be treated socially the way they want to be treated, and who find satisfaction in themselves and their bodies have what to do with transgenderism exactly?"

it has nothing to do with it. WOMEN who want to be treated socially in a way that suits them and who find satisfaction in their bodies are wonderful! i wish this for all female-identified people. all i'm saying is...that's what i want, too. but my life isn't yours, and what makes you feel good about your body and feel safe in your body and feel happy in your body is not what does the same for me. i never said desiring those things MAKES me transgendered, they are simply the factors behind my decision to transition, as i assume they are the exact same factors behind many individuals' decisions NOT to transition, and both are equally as valid.

"Why not support feminism, instead of supporting the gender system? That way, you can be treated as yourself without having to drug yourself.

I'm trans and I'm transitioning to feel at home in my body and feel happy. Not to perform some bullshit gender roles. Maybe you should read Namaste's or Serano's critiques of queer theory.

M."

i do support feminism. where does it say that i don't? and i don't give two fucks about the gender system. i care about being happy in my body and in my mind. that's it.

also, it is seriously offensive that you assume i'm transitioning in order to perform gender roles. what makes your transition so high and mighty? by the way, i've been reading Nameste and Serano (actually in touch with her currently) and Butler and Wilkins, because queer theory and politics are at the heart of my interests.

and if you think that you are somehow about to transition without playing into a gender system...you're wrong. as much as we don't like it, it is THE system we have to work with because it is the predominant one, and the one to which the rest of society adheres, and self removal is basically impossible. now, that's different than transitioning TO play a gender role, but know that the very essence of transition is connected to performing gender...the same way living as a woman in a female body or a man in a male body is about gender role.

"Because you hate being "treated like a woman"...right? Yeah. Got it. That's totally not offensive...-_-"

so if someone treated you "like a man" in a store and you feel female, you'd think that was just fine? i would be okay being treated as a woman if i were a woman, and i'd be okay being treated like a man if i were a man, and i think both and either is an equally fine thing to be, i simply am not. and i'm okay with that, too. just because i don't want to BE something does not mean i find it inherently bad or wrong, so no need to take offense.

I guess I misread you, but when you write that "my personal trans identity has nothing to do with my sex" and "it's about getting people to treat me socially the way i want to be treated" it's easy to get the wrong idea. And I have already transitioned.

@9:39 I dont think that there is a person alive that doesnt know that the word pussy is sometimes used in a derogatory manor, but so was/is butch, dyke, gay, queer, lesbian, girl, woman...words can have so many uses such as, "you are a pussy for using anonymous instead of your real name" or "my pussy cat is very soft". Dirt's use of that word has nothing to do with her education level or what type of feminist she is although I bet she didnt get her learnin' from Google as you may have. You now know thanks to Google, the context in which she used pussy has to do with your vagina. Google that...and stop being a dick!

Well Ive identified as "male" since as far back as I can remember, at 3yrs old I kept cutting my hair off, i dressed like a boy, behaved like a boy,and thought I WAS a boy. I didnt have the money nor the resources to do anything about it, I wanted the hormoens,the top surgery AND the bottom surgery. thought part of me was always scared because my dad said it would shorten my life. finally at age 27 i DID start going on testosterone anyway, simply because those feelings of being trapped in the wrong body werent going away. now 6 months after T my facial structure has changed, my voice deepened, ive got more body/facial hair, gained weight, got severe acne, and i look almost 10yrs older. I stopped taking testosterone because i looked in the mirror and had a hard time recognizing myself, it was the strangest/scariest thing. I would give anything to undo these changes but unfortunately most of it is permanent. which is ashame because I looked so much younger and could have been a much better looking girl OR GUY the way I was before. This is just my experience and im gonna regret this for the rest of my life

"so if someone treated you "like a man" in a store and you feel female, you'd think that was just fine?"

Define being "treated like a man."

Define "feeling female."

I am a woman, and I have no idea what "feeling female" means. Is it like feeling bipedal? Brown-haired? If someone calls me "sir" by mistake, so what? It doesn't change what's in my pants, nor does it ruin my day. I correct them, and life goes on. So yes, I do think it's just fine.

Anons @ 7:03 and 12:51. Minimizer bras have been around for years; they seem to be a pretty popular item. They're generally marketed to conventionally feminine women -- they have lace on them, and promise to take an inch or so off your bustline. Wanting to "lower your profile" is absolutely not just some butch thing, or some lesbian thing. Nor is it entirely about appearance -- often, it's a matter of comfort, as well.

You might have a point there. I was thinking the other day an FtM's opinions on feminism (or any women's issues) interest me about as much as some hard-core conservative Christian's. Talk about taking a step backwards.

I'm a straight gal who likes to bind, and not because I'm trying to pass as a guy. I just want to avoid attracting the pervy male gaze as much as possible.

I don't see it as misogyny, so much as a response to misogyny. Unfortunately, it seems like having boobs cannot be a politically neutral act nowadays, even though most of us don't choose to have them.

My room mate binds as well as packs and she's not FTM. She just doesn't want her breasts in the way and she likes to pack. It doesn't make her any less of a female than any other female. It's just her choice as a human being. I have been coaching her on how to make her voice lower yet she has no desire to be a man. It's all about personal choice. If that is what makes her feel comfortable than so be it.

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Gender is not performance. Stop swallowing all this 90's queer bullshit. Males and females are different. A person who was born XX, remove healthy breast, is on T should not be offended when a male will tell her mutilation+T is not equal to malehood. But instead most FTM lives such an illusion (conforted by their pals/families who do not want to upset them), they don't get what they see in the mirror and develop paranoid feelings everytime a male is telling them this true...Stop shouting out loud "transphobia" everytime we tell you are not male...We are not transphobic, we respect you as human beings, we respect your frieedom and if you want to do mutilation or take hormone go ahead but please do not ask us to distort the perception we have of you and reality and humanity.When we look at you transguys, all we see is a masculinised female and nothing else...Don't force me to see pink if I see grey...

"it's about getting people to treat me socially the way i want to be treated"

THIS is part of what's problematic about transition. Instead of being an activist as you are to try and change these things in the larger arc of society, you'd rather just bail the fuck out, "switch teams" so YOU don't have to deal with this shit. Because GOD FORBID things not be handed to you on a silver platter.

I am a woman, and I have no idea what "feeling female" means. Is it like feeling bipedal? Brown-haired? If someone calls me "sir" by mistake, so what? It doesn't change what's in my pants, nor does it ruin my day. I correct them, and life goes on. So yes, I do think it's just fine."

i put "treated like a man" in quotes because i'm suggesting i don't quite buy that there is a "male way to be treated" or a "female way to be treated" but as adults who live in this society, i think we can both agree that people percieved as female get treated, on average and on a large scale, differently than those percieved as male. also, i don't know what it means to "feel female," so i can't help you there. i also have no idea what it means to "feel male" but this is namely because i don't feel like either.

the key part of your retelling of my earlier situation is that you correct the person who has mistakenly hailed you as a man. you correct them. this sentence implies at once that there was something off about being addressed as male, so much so that you take active steps to change it, and that this change is the "correct" way. why is it a "correction" if you don't know what it means "to feel female" (suspending for a second the idea that there is no one way to "feel female"). i, too, am correcting the clerk who misidentifies me in the store; what's so different?

@ 7:45 AM,"THIS is part of what's problematic about transition. Instead of being an activist as you are to try and change these things in the larger arc of society, you'd rather just bail the fuck out, "switch teams" so YOU don't have to deal with this shit. Because GOD FORBID things not be handed to you on a silver platter."

you've completely misread me. i know i wasn't being specific enough, but it's not an easy thing to explain. what i originally meant was my transition is not tied up in the physicality of me, but is more an emotional, mental, and social process--a flowering of sorts, is a good way to look at it. my transition is about being myself as honestly as i can and as fully as i can. it feels good, i am healthy, and it makes me happy. i fail to see the problem in that, i'm sorry. i will explicitly state that this transition is in no way a pursuit of male privlage or a desire for things to be "handed to me on a silver platter." if anyone entertains for a moment that transition is an easy process they are ouf of their gourd. when i talk about the social nature of transition that i enjoy and actively seek out, i mean more along the lines of getting to use a name i feel expresses who i am, and having the social room granted to me by society to adorn and present my body in a way that i see fit and that makes me happy.

It seems like lots of FtM's just want to be some kind of a walking and talking art project, and expect the rest of society to understand why we're supposed to misuse pronouns and all the rest of the B.S. that goes along with it.Don't think I'm intolerant - I have 2 MtF friends who live in a "Lesbian" relationship, and 1 FtM that thinks she's a gay man. When we hang out, I can never drink more than 1 beer or I have a hard time keeping a straight face, let alone keeping all the pronouns straight.

The whole reason Dirt does this blog, is getting to root of WHY you feel this way. Just accepting it because "it's the way you feel" is ignoring so many other issues at hand. Surgery and hormones are not just easy breezy as a matter of fact things, contrary to what anyone would have you believe.

And no, before you even try to say it, you cannot compare trans people to gay people knowing they're gay. Gay people don't have to do anything to be gay. It involves nothing outside of themselves, just like you don't have to do anything to be straight.

""it's about getting people to treat me socially the way i want to be treated"

gay and lesbian people just ask to be treated socially with the same rights and same way than any other human beings. The gay and lesbian march for rights has always been for equality.

In opposite, transpeople want the society to change for them and are asking to be treated differently and better than any other human beings: for example, they want their plastic surgeries and life T cure to be paid by insurance or tax money. They want their whole social circles to call them Aydian, Ayden or Aidan whereas they are obviously a masculined Liz, they want lesbian partner to love a boobs-less, hairy body, they want the straight woman to love them without penis...I have good news: places exist where people can live this kind of illusion: it is called mental institutions....And yes you feel a trans vampyre, they will welcome you two or a trans-unicorn or Brad Pitt...

All of this "I need to be treated like a man/woman" stuff is exactly what I was talking about in my "degendering" post. Saying that you have to be treated like a woman/man implies that the sexes need to treated differently.

"the key part of your retelling of my earlier situation is that you correct the person who has mistakenly hailed you as a man. you correct them. this sentence implies at once that there was something off about being addressed as male, so much so that you take active steps to change it, and that this change is the 'correct' way."

No, you're misreading me. The only thing that's "off" about my being addressed as a male is that I am not one, because I have a standard female body, and adults with female bodies are addressed as "Ma'am," not "Sir." It has nothing to do with feelings. I correct people in the hopes that that will cause them to rethink their stereotypical assumptions, not because it gives me the heebie-jeebies, or undermines me as a woman somehow, if someone perceives me as male.

Sometimes, it feels safer NOT to correct them, and get the hell out. Wonder why that is? If you guessed HOMOPHOBIA, you'd be right. (Doesn't matter whether I'm gay or straight, it's my appearance that makes me a potential gay-bashing target in many situations.) And what do you suppose would happen if I DIDN'T correct the other person, but allowed the exchange to continue long enough for them to realize I was actually female (i.e. in possession of a standard female body)? That would create all kinds of difficulties.

You know, it's usually only butch dykes, femmes who feel protective of butch dykes and certain crazy straight ladies who feel invested enough, or uncomfortable enough to post hateful things about ftm's on a list like this. Why? Because you are struggling with your own gender issues. That's your problem-not mine. Well-adjusted human understand where their identity begins and ends, so they just don't feel threatened by us. People might not totally get it, or respect that we are what we say we are, but they don't give a fuck, or see a big problem in it. So of course that leads me to believe that you all are struggling with your own issues. Good luck and godspeed getting through that!

My wife, quite innocently, said to me a few weeks ago that in a few decades it's possible that no one would choose to id as "butch" or remain female. She thought it might be a good thing for people to grow up and move on with their lives. I was kinda horrified at the idea, because she's a liberal person who has many lesbian friends. But if that's how she feels about it, having little vested interest either way, I do wonder how much of y'alls reaction is just fear of your imminent extinction? I guess I'd be pissed too.

No offense or anything, but those are EXACTLY the things that are supposed to happen on T. What did you expect? Did you obtain T illegally or something without a doctor or SOMEONE telling you that those changes are the precise hallmarks of taking T? So I'm a little confused about why you would start T in the first place.

It's a little odd too that you seem to be mostly concerned about the fact that you are uglier now, or that you were more attractive before. If you're really FTM, you'd rather be a bald short man with a beard than the most beautiful woman on the planet.

If anyone sitting on the fence ever needed proof that FTM's hate other women, please look at the post from Anon @ March 4, 2011 3:50 PM. You'll never need any more proof than that. I guess that's what happens when a woman tries to exterminate her female self.

Nope, dealing with your personal issues is growing up. Dealing with your own identity and choices before you let them become toxic to others."

I think it was pretty obvious that offense was taking at the original posters implication that butch lesbians are not "mature" until they transition, become males and comform to gender roles. It is akin to pressuring teenage girls who are tomboys to "grow out of it"

This whole concept of butch lesbians not being mature until they transition is a common theme in the FtM community. This idea carries the scary implication that a hallmark of maturity is conformance to gender norms.

"Nope, dealing with your personal issues is growing up. Dealing with your own identity and choices before you let them become toxic to others."

Yes that is right. However maturity is not cutting off your breasts and taking T because you cannot deal with being female in this society. Attacking those who refuse to transition and conform to gender norms because they stand as a testement to your weakness is not mature or a sign that one is dealing with ones issues.

"If anyone sitting on the fence ever needed proof that FTM's hate other women, please look at the post from Anon @ March 4, 2011 3:50 PM. You'll never need any more proof than that. I guess that's what happens when a woman tries to exterminate her female self."

The responses in this blog really highlight the real reasons why ftms transition. It is very clear that it is about conforming to gender norms and snagging the privledge that goes along with it.

"As a lesbian, what stride, what legal hurdles has the trans community helped us to achieve??"

Absolutely none. As seen in this thread the ultra right-wing belief that females and males should be treated differently based on sex, and that females who don't conform to noxious oppressive discriminatory gender rules are somehow flawed, the idea that non-compliance should be "treated" with surgery and drugging, etc. are all ideas in direct opposition to the lesbian community, the gay community, and the worldwide movement for women's liberation. The trans community is working against us, not with us.

"Attacking those who refuse to transition and conform to gender norms because they stand as a testement to your weakness is not mature or a sign that one is dealing with ones issues."

I don't attack here. I only call things the way I see them. Nor do I want anyone to transition (unless their denial has become toxic to others). I don't conform to gender roles myself, so I don't see transitioning as that. Furthermore, keeping your body or changing it is no good measure of weakness or strength. My strength is in my character, not my boobs or a female presentation.

"This idea carries the scary implication that a hallmark of maturity is conformance to gender norms."

I think a hallmark of maturity is a little bit of humility, and recognizing where you end and another begins. People who are quite happy with themselves are unlikely to have the time and effort it takes to attack people who's experiences they do not know or understand. Period.

@sleibWe seek to destroy the difference in treatment between males and females.

Changing our bodies, or names, or terms so that we can give people cues on how to "read" us is to assent to the system. It is playing the game. We don't want to play the game, or even watch the game, we want to end the game.

You have misunderstood the woman when she said "I correct them" WHen people say "he" or "man" they mean you have a male body. (The only people who don't mean this and are referring to gender identity are transpeople). By saying I am a she, you correct the person who thinks you have a male body. It is the same reason i would correct someone who said my hair was brown if it was black. It is not asserting a gender identity.

When you "correct" somebody for calling you she, you are not really correcting them because that is not what they meant. There are those who will be polite to you and call you he because you want to be called that not because they believe that you are one. UNLESS they are of those few non-trans people who have bought into the gender identity line. In short very few people have gender identities and cisgender is bullshit.

Transguys are a like pro-Ana people: they want us to see what they distorted eyes "see" :*they see a "male" in the mirror*we see a mutilated hairy bald women with a beardand we wonder why she has done this to herself...we are curious like if we were in front of stupid car accident.

"I don't attack here. I only call things the way I see them. Nor do I want anyone to transition (unless their denial has become toxic to others). "

Saying all butch lesbians who don't transition are putative Ftm's and saying those who express reservations about transitioning are in denial IS attacking them.

"I don't conform to gender roles myself, so I don't see transitioning as that. "Tranistioning is conforming to gender roles whether you see it that way or not.

"Furthermore, keeping your body or changing it is no good measure of weakness or strength. My strength is in my character, not my boobs or a female presentation."

As this blog entry attests Ftm's transition because they cannot deal with being female in this society. That is weakness. It is the desire to change your body parts which makes you captiulating and weak not the body parts themselves. You are right, your strength is not in female presentation, it is derived from a male presentation which is fabricated.

when i look in the mirror clothed i see a young man, a proud one at that... when i look in the mirror i see a naked body flat chest, and a pussy, oh and lots of skin....

they are my physical attributes, my soul is deeper then that, my soul does not know what gender is.

your a girl, your a boy?you another living creature just getting by in a world that is at war with its self.

What does it feel like to be a Girl?What does it feel like to be a Boy?What does it feel like to be White?What does it feel like to be Black?What does it feel like to be Lesbain?What does it feel like to be Gay?

Why do you choose to change or hide your female self then if you love "it"?

My female self is right here and I don't hide my truth from anyone or hide my body from my lovers. I'm an open book. I'm proud to be trans, and I like my male presentation. I like my whole damn self and there is nothing you can say or do that would change that.

You are one to talk about overstepping bounds when you suggest butch women are Ftm's in waiting...

Sorry if that struck a chord. Plenty of things about ftm's have been suggested here that were less truthful than what I said. Fact is, "butches" and people who call themselves butches for now do transition and will continue to, despite your campaign. You should accept this and move on.

They cant afford to see the point because it would be admitting a wrong they might not be able to live with.

It would take HUGE strength, courage and support to admit THAT wrong. If you dont have the strength to live a life not bound by societal norms, you will likely not have the strength to (un)conform once you had.

I think whoever said that comment about thinking that men and women should be treated differently was thinking of it in the terms that I do. I'm an FTM. I think men and women should be treated differently under the following, incredibly limited circumstances:

- when a woman asks for the restroom key at the gas station, she should be handed the "women" key and not the "men" one.

- women should be given access to female-body-specific health care.

- women should get pap smears. Men, not so much, unless they are FTM and still have all their bits.

Etc. It's not about treating women and men differently as in unequally.

Anon @3:50 - Who exactly does your wife think is "going extinct?" Women in general, or Butches/Femmes/Lesbians? I'm not going to panic, because I think it's likely your "wife" is teetering on the brink of "transitioning" and we're about to get you in FtM doublepack.

So if I'm an intersex person, who identifies as female, and am on hormones specifically for that presentation because that is the role I prefer, am I a traitor to other intersex persons?Am I a traitor if I seek surgery because my genitals are confusing and foreign to me, or for seeking laser to get rid of that unsightly body hair? (And is it ever unsightly!)I'm just curious where I fall in this strange blog world that I've stumbled upon.Because I honestly don't see the difference between what I described and what trans persons seem to describe.

Intersexed and "trans" are 2 very different things. For starters, you have a biological basis to being intersexed in the first place. All through history there has always been mention of intersexed people.You can't say the same about "trans" which is a mental disorder and has just popped up a few decades ago.

@Anon"My female self is right here and I don't hide my truth from anyone or hide my body from my lovers. I'm an open book. I'm proud to be trans, and I like my male presentation. I like my whole damn self and there is nothing you can say or do that would change that."

No, you did not like your female self so you changed it. It never ceases to amaze me how trans people back peddle and try to talk their way out of the obvious contradictions in their stories/arguements.

On one hand it is about the necessity of transitioning and how they can't live in a "foreign body", when confronted for specifics and science to back their claims, all of a sudden it is about personal choice and how they "made a few alterations" and they "love their (remaining) female parts"

"Sorry if that struck a chord. Plenty of things about ftm's have been suggested here that were less truthful than what I said. Fact is, "butches" and people who call themselves butches for now do transition and will continue to, despite your campaign. You should accept this and move on"

Responding to arguements by saying people have issues and should move on is not an arguement. And you are not sorry you struck and chord that was your intention. For those of us who see parallels between trans surgery and anorexia and BIID choose to speak out about it and raise reservations, that is our right. Telling us to "move on" is incredibly arrogant, who or what gives you that right?

Personally, I don't give two shits how any of you see me - you want to see me as female, go for it, my identity isn't based on the opinions of others. That being said - several of you (that I've seen) have commented that you don't need or want the trans community to vote on the issues affecting you. A little cutting off of your nose to spite your face isn't it? Read the facts, the country is split almost evenly right now on marriage equality. I know for a fact that you HAVE a lot of trans votes... suppose we all stop voting on these issues as per your request.... your equality will go down the shitter ladies! How about a little solidarity instead of all your venom?

@ 11:49 Medically it is necessary for female bodies and male bodies to be treated differently i agree. Sexual attraction is another one where it cannot be helped.But those whose transition is centered around how they are reacted to, socially, sexually,or whatever refer to many more differences than the things you have mentioned, specifically differences in social treatment. People should get to know individuals and treat them how they want to be treated.

Not all FTM's transition because they have a problem with their sex these days. Personally I don't have an issue with transpersons who transition because they have mind- body disconnect problems. But i do have an issue with socially-driven transition, not because i think badly of the individuals but i have a problem with the social factors existing in the first place.

Personally i also prefer how i am treated when i'm seen as male over how i'm treated when i'm seen as female. There is a difference and it can be major. HOWEVER, much of this difference is fueled by misogyny and gender role expectations in general. And to change myself would be to defer to these.

I am aware I have a biological basis to being intersex, and this is what people always remind me of when I argue for trans. 'It's okay for you to take these measures because you have a biological basis for it.'But given that I make decisions about my body based on what I feel towards my body, the same way that most trans people I know do.That being said, I think that when people transition due to social pressures rather than internal ones, that's a shame. It's a radical change to make to oneself, and should be done for the right reasons.That being said, I do suspect that gender identity is inborn. I had an inclination (rather than a coin flip) for how I would like to live my life, and what I prefer for my biological reality. Cases like David Reimer and intersex children who are needlessly reassigned at birth (something which gets my goat, since it removes any choice at all!) seem to show this again and again.Also, transgender does have a history, if you look at language in some cultures. There are words like transgender in most native languages, and then there are cross-cultural examples of it (Kathoey, Hirja). Certainly, intersex is something that shows up over and over again and is biological (I wouldn't be intersex if it wasn't biological), but so does transgender, which may or may not be biological (though as mentioned earlier, I suspect gender identity is inborn).

The first "trans" who tried transitioning medically (as far as I know) was Lili Elbe, that was in Germany in 1930's. The whole "trans" thing started by doctors trying to change homosexual men into straight in Germany/Austria. Those men wanted to be straight and to just have a "normal" life in society. I'd be curious how much of that original material has been translated into English. That is the beginning of the history of "trans" in the western world.

As far as words for "trans" in other cultures - first, in no culture that I know of were people surgically, with hormones, etc. altering themselves, or feeling the need to do those things. Everywhere there have always been Intersex and gay people (in all their variety which would be described/interpreted differently in differing languages/cultures.) I do think there are some things we can't explain why they happen in the first place, like why there have always been Gay people.

Surgery and hormones were not available to older cultures, though there were those who would be castrated for these reasons which I guess qualifies for a particularly brutal surgery. Arguing that no other culture did that is kind of obvious, given they didn't have the means. This is relatively new medical science. You could argue against anti-depressants in the same way (though I sometimes wonder if depression is just a clearer way of seeing the world).

Also, -only- 20%, really? That's a pretty high number if you think about it. If the surgeons were only guessing by coinflip, and gender identity was a real phenomenon, this number would be 50%. But surgeons have more information than that! There are many forms of intersex conditions, and some reassignments might be generally successful. So 20% change of surgical assignments assumes an eighty percent hit for educated guess rate, which certainly doesn't seem unreasonable. In fact, I'd expect the educated guess rate to be higher than that, even!You're also assuming that intersex kids are going to be born with a 'male' or 'female' gender identity and nothing in between, even after we take surgeon education into account. 20% is pretty high and should actually be convincing if you look at it from a statistical perspective! That's scary high!In any case, I've never met an intersex person reassigned at birth (or heard stories of, or found cases of, and keep in mind that this is relevant to my own interests and biology, so I do read) who was particularly happy with being assigned without their permission. But hey, 'normally' sexed people make the rules and totally understand what's going on. (I guess that's kind of a bitter tangent, though.)

Every culture has ways of dealing with everything they confront because culture is functional. Even through prehistory people were using drug-type natural substances, etc.

Most people would agree that today's western medical standards are the best we've ever had if you have something biologically wrong with you - like a broken leg, cancer, etc. Everyone wouldn't say that about mental problems/issues - things like being "trans" or depression. That's why there is so much interest in things like Shamanism, etc. But you can't take something like that out of its cultural context and expect it to have the same benefits (or any)in your culture.

Does anyone know of a specific ceremony (or something like that) from any culture which without-a-doubt has to do with changing someone's sex from one to the other?

The majority (95+%) of males transition because they pathologically attached possessing the female form for their personal private masturbatory pleasures. And as the majority havent a chance in hell of "passing", they not only never give up their male privilege, they never lose it.

I would like to know the source on the 95%+ figure, Dirt, because without a source that's a mighty presumptuous claim! With a legitimate source, it's probably a perfectly reasonable claim, though.And what about the remaining 5%-?I'm also uncertain how not 'passing' means that MtFs retain male privilege?

Also to a previous Anonymous, yes, Iran's practices are barbaric. Transition isn't a magic bullet for everything as they seem to believe. In fact, I agree it's to be avoided in most cases, but disagree to say it is beneficial in a few.

(I am anonymous who posted March 5, 2:27, and subsequently at some other time. I just realized that I can attach a name without an account. Durr.)

I am the same Anon. from March 6, 2011 2:04 PM and March 6, 2011 3:18 PM. I also once submitted this study on 'white matter' in the brain, or something like that which was entirely discredited by 'Canadian'. Then I posted my opinion on 'phantom limbs' etc but some people got offended as the post was kind of long and they figured I was 'mansplaining' or i'm not sure what the term is, or trying to silence or confuse females. I'm not sure why they thought that. I'm still female-at-birth and female-bodied. Finally, I am not sure why this comment I want to post keeps being posted for a few seconds but then removed?

I have spent time in these kinds of spaces, Dirt. I meant a real source, not your personal delegitimization of others' claims. (I do get what you mean, but that source is just not a statistic, more an expression of your feelings towards a community.)

To Anonymous, there is a little 'choose an identity' section beneath the comment box. Choose 'Name/URL', attach a name.

To Nat: Thank you, I tried that, but now I can't post anything either with Anon. or a name because Dirt is censoring it unfairly, even though my posts contain no insults, or swearing, or the prefix 'cis' or anything. Just stated my opinion and tried to share a bit of my story. I have not even transitioned but I said I relate more to ftm than lesbian so that's all she needed...

It's just taking a few moments, UsuallyAnon, to get through. If behind the scenes, there is an influx of insulting posts, I can understand why Dirt would be putting this delay to choose which posts to go through.

Transitioning is about conforming to social norms and the privilege gained by that it is not soley about gaining male priviledge, although as witnessed on this blog for many FtM's it is a powerful inducement. Anyone who doesn't conform to gender norms is marginalized and great pressure is brought to bear to bring them into line and this applies to both men and women

"Also, gay marriage is legal in Canada, so clearly it's not about marriage rights either.."

I am not sure what you are getting at here, as I have never cited marriage rights as a driver of transition, although that priviledge has been flaunted as a benefit of transitioning on this blog by transitioners themselves.

If transitioning was about gaining male priviledge then MTFs wouldn't exist. Also, gay marriage is legal in Canada, so clearly it's not about marriage rights either..

Funny Barry, because when I was follow this then I do not recall seeing a single ftM groups even discussing the issue. And I just googled ftM groups who support gay marriage and still cant find any. Mind pointing us to the ftM groups who did? Would be interesting to see what exactly they did to accomplish this?

This is no secret - I'm not sure which country you are based in, but Press for Change - a UK group campaigning for trans equality in lobbied for the Gender Recognition Act - negotiating this with the UK government. A trans man who is a member of the FTM network was abosolutely key in this. One network member I know who has a Gender Recognition Certificate has got a Civil Partnership with his boyfriend.To be fair, you need to do your research and use another resource to gauge the level of political activity for a group of people.