Originally posted by MorningStar8741
I guess Pinch and his pet mod gave up. I can understand being upset, angry, disgusted, whatever. I do not understand flat out DENYING what is
displayed right before your eyes. I hope some "real" soldiers can help him out.

No, I didn't give up. Arguing such things with people who are so easily duped by a charlatan and liar like Anderson and Macbeth and the others is
just such a waste of life and time. You go ahead and keep believing whatever the latest pissed off angry soldier who wants to Stick it to the MAN!
has to say. Knock yourself out, dudes.

No, I didn't give up. Arguing such things with people who are so easily duped by a charlatan and liar like Anderson and Macbeth and the others is
just such a waste of life and time. You go ahead and keep believing whatever the latest pissed off angry soldier who wants to Stick it to the MAN!
has to say. Knock yourself out, dudes.

I have asked you about 4 times now to explain to me that those videos are lies then. I posted more than enough evidence of everything Anderson has
said and you keep pretending that is not even there. Are you calling my videos a lie too? Seriously, you have not even tried to address them. You are
just pretending that they do not exsist and that I never posted them. If Anderson is a liar, how do you explain the videos that I posted?

MorningStar8741, as I stand by, watching this thread run its course, its clear to me that a perspective unmoved is the position of both sides.

A person who is racist cannot be shown it is wrong.
A person who is not racist cannot be shown it is wrong.

Each in their own mind is right. But should Pinch be an Iraqi, perhaps his words would end. Should you be an American soldier, perhaps you would see
that the video linked in this post may or may not be true.

As a former non combat serviceman myself, Andersons concerns and portrayals are real. From what I can see. A tactic not realized, but a tactic
pondered. Either way, it appears he has identified is as a practice.
A real ethical concern for morality, and a real worry for potential Iraqi victims.

War is ugly. Rape, Oppression, death, and loss of life. Families destroyed, an innocent children become victims. The forcing of a political ideology
that appears to be flawed in the recent United States crisis, and a moral way of life that many Muslims feel is deplorable.

The best we can do is see what is right, do what is right, and be the right we know to be. Life, liberty and the persuit of happiness is a truth we
have identified, but what is right? Economies based on the oppression of mankind? Exploitative capitalism and excessive gains on the shoulders of
another mans brother?

America has lessons to learn within her own borders, and it appears that, as Sharon Creech once said in her book Walk two Moons:

dont judge a man until you've walked two moons on his own mocassins.

Pinch walk with Morning, and Morning with Pinch. Pinch and Morning in the mind of Anderson, and Anderson in the mind of the military complex and we
the readers.

The Truth is we come in Peace. If it doesn't end in peace, love, equality and a justice fair for the deliverer as well as the receiver, then it isnt
peace at all.

But I did not post anything that can be interpreted any other way. The only way to keep from changing your oppinion is to pretend that the evidence
that is posted here does not exsist; which is exactly the tactic Pinch is trying.

But I did not post anything that can be interpreted any other way. The only way to keep from changing your oppinion is to pretend that the evidence
that is posted here does not exsist; which is exactly the tactic Pinch is trying.

Dont get me wrong. I believe Andersonn is sincere.
What I was attempting to do, was to get Pinch to understand your stance, and for you to understand his.

The response that was seen is this.

Originally posted by pinch
Peace through superior and more accurate firepower, perhaps.

Thats the military industrial complex talking. Not dads, moms, and children. We are right, within our own country and set of beliefs.Not theirs.

Is peace behind machines guns and concrete barriers really peace?
At what point is that a temporary facade? Does the Iraqi mother go home and kill her children, or does she go home worried and scared that the one
with the gun may come into her home at any moment be it American or other? Who is the enemy?

The morality of the videos shown originally indicate a practice that is ethically wrong and should they be true, we need to combat wrong.
Should they not be true, then let it be known. That being said, Anderson is in the company of many, who have shown their Military IDs and have
testimony indicating that they are who they are.

I respect a soldier of ethics and morals more then one of might and brawn who acts blindly.

But I did not post anything that can be interpreted any other way. The only way to keep from changing your oppinion is to pretend that the evidence
that is posted here does not exsist; which is exactly the tactic Pinch is trying.

Dont get me wrong. I believe Andersonn is sincere.
What I was attempting to do, was to get Pinch to understand your stance, and for you to understand his.

While I respect what you are trying to do, Pinch has made it quite clear that he is going to keep pretending that those videos are not even there. He
will not acknowledge them. That is why he fled this thread to begin with. Why he came back boggles my mind. What is clear though, is that there is no
rational discussion to be had with someone who cannot even acknowledge the evidence on the table enough to dismiss it, let alone look at it.

Originally posted by MorningStar8741
While I respect what you are trying to do, Pinch has made it quite clear that he is going to keep pretending that those videos are not even there. He
will not acknowledge them. That is why he fled this thread to begin with.

This is not a battle between yourself and Pinch, but a struggle between that which is right versus wrong.

We are Americans. We walk for a greater good, and while that good is not always clear, there are many that would seek to silence our very premise.

The undertaking of Iraq has found the lack of WMDs. The lack of nuclear weapons. The lack of chemical weapons. And the finding of American GIs being
discriminatory and a host of other deplorable actions.

While some of those actions are abominable, I do not believe as a whole this is our military moral code. This is a select few, verses the very select
of which compose the majority.

Actually, it is a battle with Pinch. He called Anderson a liar and said these things never happen. I posted undeniable video proof and Pinch continues
to call these lies without acknowledging the videos. That is what makes it a battle. If he is going to call BS, he needs to look at the evidence, and
perhaps provide some of his own. What he is doing is slandering a good man for no reason with no proof. He is also denying the obvious. I never said
this was the prevailing attitude. I said it was happening. Even once is enough. It makes our troops less safe and America less safe. If Pinch were
half the soldier he claims to have been, he would hate these men as much as I do for what they are doing to his fellow soldiers.

Originally posted by pinch
I can't begin to number the "statements" this complete loser made where the BS flag would be not just thrown, but hurled. Shoot everybody?
Every large apartment building in Baghdad is destroyed? Fire artillery into downtown Najaf?

MorningStar, there is nothing in any of those videos that backs up any of the above claims made by Anderson.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but was anderson kicked out with a general discharge?. if so, does that make him eligible for Veteran Disability after so
many months?.

PTSD is a bad ticket to deal with, it will get worse over time.

Anderson's mind told him not to go back, his mind could not cope with the stress. but wait I noticed something different in that video.

If you take a look at the ID card he showed, it has PVT or Private/E1, and he said he went in to the army in '03, then he should have been a CPL/E4
or Sargent/E5, unless.....he got into trouble while in Iraq and got busted down to PVT or that is an old ID card which he was suppose to turn in when
he got promoted and a new ID card issued.

I think Mornings emphasis was on the overall issue of abuses that are going on in Iraq. The Anderson video was on questionable military practices and
the later videos on the post were in regards to yet even more deplorable behavior.

In a war where we are under a magnifying glass, we need to do it better then everyone else.

Those acts are of poor taste, and are a symptom of a much larger problem facing the America of today, and an infection, that many Muslims are seeking
to avoid.

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