OK, so the Nasty Old Perv RECORDED himself raping this 12 year old. And then kept the tape with him so he could listen to it all that time. When he was arrested, he had it with him. Now, from one thing I have heard there are OTHER PEOPLE there at the time. That they were there as witnesses. This of course made me think of the MAJOR creepy bed.

I just heard this today too. What a creep. He is a real perv. I want him to go down!!! That man is pure evil. Notice when he walks into the courthouse he never looks ahead. Only down. I thought he had a neck injury or something. He is a sicko. He is evil to the core. That poor girl has had people listening to that rape over and over. Someone said it is marked training tape....training tape??? Training for rapes????? Yes, there are at least two copies- one in his car at the time of arrest and one in Texas.

I just finished reading "Escape" by Carolyn Jessop, and her description of her wedding night left me feeling like it was a rape. Maybe she even hinted at that, I can't remember.

Anyway, it actually doesn't shock me after reading that book. Insane and unimaginable things go on there. And if JS had been around during technologically advanced times, he would have used a tape and maybe more.

The more I hear about it, the more creeped out I am by the things coming out of this trial. It's especially disgusting when you realize the Joseph Smith-Warren Jeffs connection. I'd have run JS out of town too if the perv was anywhere near my daughter! *shudder*

I seem to recall that after his arrest, he first appeared to be "remorseful and apologetic." I guess now that he has had a chance to meditate, he's reverted completely back to the whole "I am a Prophet of God" mindset.

Boy, ol' Warren is gonna be astounded at the continued good health of not only the judge (a WOMAN, no less!), but of every single law enforcement, social worker, and expert witness! Jeffs will get a glimpse at just how POWERLESS his God really is!

The whole defense is resting upon "religious freedom." I'm truly sorry, Mister Jeffs, but religious freedom MUST take a back seat when it comes to civil liberties. Because without civil liberties, what GOOD is religious freedom?

Like the old adage, "Your right to freedom of speech terminates the minute you yell 'FIRE!' in a packed theater!"

"...At one point Jeffs tells the girls or women, "You have to know how to be excited sexually. You have to be able to assist each other."

This raises an old suspicion about Mormon Polygamy.

If a man's "greatest fantasy" is being with multiple women sexually at one time -- and -- if a man is married to numerous women, what is wrong with him having sex with two or more at a time?

No official church statement has surfaced saying this should NOT happen so, by default, a Mormon man could cliam that liberty. This leads to at least two naked women in bed together and the inevitable possible of lesbian contact. Especially if encouraged by the priesthood holder who, according to Temple language, the wives must obey!

Jeffs may have been following a well established, but rarely mentioned practice, in the Mormon world of polygamy!

In point of fact, many I've had contact with have universally condemned the underage child sexual abuse that occurs in the various polygamist sects. It is, in fact, the rule rather than the exception.

Which means it's silly to listen to arguments from polygamists claiming these practics are not occurring. Rather like Will Bagley's criticism of the Turley, Walker, Leonard volume on Mountain Meadows that relied extensively on an 1883 church investigation into the matter. Will noted that it does not appear to have occurred to anyone that most of the information in this report came from the murders themselves.

"Did you participate in those killings, Elder?"

"No sir, it was the Indians. But my neighbor might've been there and helped."

I mentioned this on another post tonight. Flora Jessop was on CNN today,(and yesterday) and she said that the first sex act was done (I mean RAPE) on this bed. I don't think she meant every newly wed couple,but she was very positive it was done on this bed. Also,there were witnesses (or men getting off on) and some of the wives that would help hold the girl/child down.

Yeah,these women do nothing wrong.

All of the adults should be held responsible. I think the men should be castrated and the women....I don't know. Definitely tubes tied.And all of them should serve long prison terms.

But evidence law would require it not be admitted in an unrelated case because it is inflammatory. What this means is that evidence that inflames one's passions (anger) but does not directly go to whether an act being charged was committed must be excluded because it tends to prejudice the jury against the person. It's a fair law that protects all of us.

But in this case where he is actually charged with that specific rape of that girl, it is evidence in that case. Its not inflammatory because it proves the elements of the crime. Inflammatory is only where it does not prove what's charged but inflames anger against the person for something other than what is being charged.

Thats what sets us apart from highly prejudicial and unfair trials like what's gone on in Italy with Amanda Knox where they introduce all sorts of inflammatory things that don't prove her guilt or innocence (like how many men she's slept with, etc).

I'm 30, but I can remember being 12...hell I have a niece who is about to be 16, another about to be 12, and 3 more around 10 years old. I would go after anyone who even looked at any of them in a sexual way. What kind of woman, probably having been through that herself, could do that, hold a child down while she's being raped.

This is why I am actually in favor of legalization of plural. It's when things are criminalized that crimes like this happened. If polygamy were legalized, I believe there would be less child brides. Of course there would always be those who are perverted and would corrupt the system, but I believe this kind of thing would diminish significantly.

I don't understand how legalizing polygamy would make the child rape situation better. It wasn't the illegality of polygamy that caused child abuse to go rampant. It was the lethargic prosecution by Utah and Arizona for so long.

In the U. S. we generally don't care all that much what consenting adults sleep with one another. It's when children are involved that most of us have a problem. In a society where people close themselves off and make their children a part of their sexually unorthodox lifestyle, trouble is inevitable.

you are right, the child abuse and rape wouldn't end, but there would be more government oversight/regulation and involvement. As it stands now, it being illegal the government just tends to ignore it, "out of sight out of mind."

As wierd as I think it is, there are groups of consenting adults out there who, for whatever reason, want to be legally recognized as married polyamorously (??). They should be allowed that as much as gay men and women should be allowed it.

First of all, there's no reason to believe that most polygynists would bother to marry "legally" anyway. Secondly, polygyny, by its very nature, creates a shortage of women which leads to child brides. Legalizing polygyny isn't going to increase the available pool of females. Finally, Utah can't even seem to "oversee" their education -- what makes you think they would actually "oversee" plural marriages?

Does warren jeffs have any idea where pedophiles which is exactly what he is rank in the prison hierarchy? if justice is served he'll find out, they are not very high in fact they are considered the lowest of the low. Harassment as well as death threats are common especially in a high profile case like this. And I doubt any of his fellow prisoners will listen to his religious rantings either.