Again.. from what we can see there is still big problem with hunter scalling in compare to others. Our dps increase from haste is almost non existant, dps increase from mastery is about 4 time less then the affi lock gets (from 1000 mastery we get around 3.3% pet/elemental damage increase which is about 50% of our damage to 5.15% affi lock gets which is about 90% of its damage). No cleave, no multi target damage.
Removing fox is just a lowering a skill cap for this class but its not a dps increase. HC players didnt have problem with aspect dancing, and loss of 10% damage of skill that is less then 10% of overall damage on fight that u have to move 100% of the time is less then 1% increase.

On normal raids, dungeons, lfrs, questing hunter is doing rather ok, but hc raids is a completly different story.

So we seriously need some major class fixes (pet cleaves, BA multi dotting) or just make us super strong single target class (or at least as good as locks or mages)

I love to play my hunter, i love its mechanic and style (no matter which spec it is). But im still a math and recount maniac who loves to raid. And raiding with my hunter just makes me sad because of numbers it is pulling. And im not rerolling only because other classes would destroy our buff composition (10m raiding) token and gear distribution...

Changing spec and reforging for each fight is not a problem for a decent raider, but blizzard should make at least 1 spec able to do its job on multitarget/cleave fights.

Can anyone explain why SV dps shows up as 3rd overall in this link but hunters still show dead last as spec score and mid to low on each boss fight (as reported by the OP).

If u look on specific fights you will see that survival hunter is non existant (below statisctic mark). But it is on high dps fight like wind lord. Thats why it boosts avarage surv spec dps, but it does not buff the score.

I did this back in Firelands and DS so I thought I would do the same now that we have some solid numbers to look into to.
Using 25 man heroic WOL parses as reported by raidbots.com and using the highest dps spec from each class for a total of 11. (what that means is if one class has 2 or more specs in the top 11 it is not counted, basically I use the top spec for each class so a total of 11 possible slots)

...

Thoughts?

Even though I see your point, thie liost you made as it is means nothing. You should use average real numbers not ranking...
For example the mage does 1,000,000, number 2 does 999,999, number 3 does 999,998 etc. and the hunter does 999,989 then there's no real problem really. I understand that hunter's dps is at the bottom of the barrel but the ranking in itself means nothing without the actual numbers as a reference.

I understand that hunter's dps is at the bottom of the barrel but the ranking in itself means nothing without the actual numbers as a reference.

If you will look back that is why I included the "standard deviation" for all the fights. To me the numbers do not matter, if a mage is doing 140k so be it... how far behind that 140k is what I want to know and that is shown in my post on the 2nd page. The raw dps number behind and the % behind we are for each fight with all the criterias.

did you post this on blizz forums?

I did on the hunter forums, I hesitated to put it in the Damage Dealing forums because there is a well known troll called Slant that always derails and tries to debunk numbers and when shes proven wrong she just changes the topic or says "poor me." I did post the numbers earlier today and imagine my suprise when guess who jumped in on the first reply and said the numbers didnt mean anything... lol what a tool!
Here is the link to it... its very entertaining as I go off on her a bit so bring some popcorn!

I have to say these numbers surprise the hell out of me given how well I perform in my own raids.

And also how well the Hunters in world first progression perform in their raids. I'm definitely not as good as them.

Weird. Also fuck BM, raid SV.

I used to think the same thing in DS until I raided with another guild one week and went from being top dps in my guild(over two rogues with legendary daggers) to middle of the pack in their raid.

Originally Posted by Sengura

So 10 posts and no definitive answer...

TO ELITEST JERKS!

Originally Posted by PBitt

People really will find anything to complain about. Too bad I don't care because I quit the game because they made the hunter class color lime green and I think it would be SO much better had it been a grass-colored green.

Well, Truefire from BL and Devai from Paragon (in another thread) have weighed in, that should lend some weight to it. And Kenny's numbers are pretty shocking too, because I've been following him awhile and I know the level of skill he plays at. All we need is Rogerbrown's word and we should then just give them their quotes.

And I know Devai doesn't raid hunter any more, but come on, he once fucking disengaged around a tornado wall on H-Al'akir and I started playing hunter because of it.

Well, Truefire from BL and Devai from Paragon (in another thread) have weighed in, that should lend some weight to it. And Kenny's numbers are pretty shocking too, because I've been following him awhile and I know the level of skill he plays at. All we need is Rogerbrown's word and we should then just give them their quotes.

And I know Devai doesn't raid hunter any more, but come on, he once fucking disengaged around a tornado wall on H-Al'akir and I started playing hunter because of it.

How you be so there are in new bosses Hart of fear lets wait till meny others guild finisfh Hart of fear and then we will se where are devai ,Trufire ,Kenny .....at top list world of logs ....lokk Mogu shan where so meny guilds finish in Hc and see ir there eny hunter at top 10 enyyyyyyyyyy Boss AT TOP ARE ALL MAGES ;WARRS AND WARLOCKS

Will be interesting to see what the 5% increased RAP does for us in regard to numbers etc.

While the initial reaction is to go Woo! 5% increased damage, that will bring us in line a little bit! Thats under the (probably false) assumption that no other spec in the game got any kind of buff in the previous patch.

Will be interesting to see what the 5% increased RAP does for us in regard to numbers etc.

While the initial reaction is to go Woo! 5% increased damage, that will bring us in line a little bit! Thats under the (probably false) assumption that no other spec in the game got any kind of buff in the previous patch.

its not +5% damage at all. it didnt do much. i went up a tad, but not close to whats needed. still getting pooped on by mages and locks