Ok guys after trying a lot of mmos and having an experience of 6 years i've realized some things.

1)A small introduction
Todays mmo industry is not a secret that is walking into a black hole.
A lot of games tried their fate against wow but every game went to trash.
I m not a fan of wow and in fact i m not fan on anything on the world.I just enjoy whatever brings me most joy.
As i said above i tried a lot of games if not all mmos.The final decision is that wow is hard to get down.
One of the greatest reasons is because of it's gameplay.Yes it has the best gameplay i've ever experienced in any mmo but wow has also alot of dissadvantages for todays expectetions and for the 2011 year.
First of all it' graphics are totaly outdated and a lot of stuff has been added which made the game feels bad.
Furthermore wow is now redicoulous easy which makes some veteran mmo gamers hate it.
Last the comunity of wow consist of a lot of 16 years old children and believe me ive seen tons of children at internet coffe shops playing wow that makes u sick.
To conclude this introduction the result is that fathers of these children playing wow still support this game and wow still got the throne of mmos.

2)The 2011 era
Now we are near to the new year 2011 and a lot of studios are giving their best shot to come up with a game trying to lure as many players as possible through demonstrations at gamescom,ea etc etc and if they make it good enough they will send wow back home
There will be a lot of anticipated games coming in 2011 and there will be a big confusion for players.
The most anticipated games are ffxiv,wow cataclysm.Rift,Swtor,Tera and guild wars 2.

To be fast im not going to speak about every game as the title says Rift vs Gw2 and thats because in my opinion Tera is not going to make any success,it's another aion clone which was total failure.
Star wars is another kind of mmo it's sci-fi and will reflect only to sci-fi players and sw fans.
Wow cataclysm may have recreate their world but with the same graphics a deep breath is not going to be taken.
FFxiv i was impressed with eleven some times but square enix has not done any significant changes to 14 so we have a ff11 with better graphics.

3)The great war
So we come to an end with 2 games having something worth to be seeen.

First of we have Rift which has a very nice lore and maybe a good story too,some new graphics that will engage a lot of players,a very nice mature more badass art than other mmos and sth new as the developers say a breathing world changing continuesly.I m not going to speak about the skill system which will be far better and more interesting than tera but hey it's the same as wow or warhammer.You have 3 or more skill trees u power up u gain skills,anyway we ll se about that later on release.The gameplay looks like wow but we ll have to wait till we see the real stuff in action.
Although it's a very interesting game and it will be my first game for 2011.

On the other hand we have Gwars 2 which will be released a little bit more later and as developers say in an interview i saw t "We Are Going To Create The Best Mmo Ever Seen"...:ooolala-sign:
Real tough words from the devs of guildwars.They seem to have much confidence inside them but my experience says that some times big words comes to big dissaster.
Anyway i saw a 50 minutes of gameplay at gamescom u can check it here:http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-war...-pure-gameplay and it's great
To tell the truth gw2 may had the best presentation at gamescom but thats not enough..they need to keep this momentum in order not to loose their value.
Indeed the game has a lot to offer there are a lot of things there and a lot of action going on that keeps u always having sth to do.
But the most important thing of this game is that despite it's good quality it's FREE!and they charge u only for the expanssions which in my opinion is very logical
Yes they say we create a game for the player and want them to enjoy our game.

4)Payment methods!
Since 1998 if i remember right with ultima online payment methods havent changed a lot except some free mmos from some noob companies.(all free games are worthless ive tried them all)
Every company charge players 15 euro per month so they can play their game:eek-blue:
And everybody says they keep this paying method to maintain servers.:ooolala-sign:
Give me a break gw2 is also an mmo and isnt charge per month and they have also servers to maintain them
Others say paying for an mmo is an overkill."Why should i pay for a game which i have already bought"
Yes they are correct why should i pay for an mmo 15 euro per month?Why?

So i realized that there are 2 side of companies on the horizon.
The first company as always is looking for cash..a lot of cash that they become so addicted that is depicted through the game
Eg Dungeons&Dragons,Eq2,lord of the rings,age of conan ,Startrek..I just refered to some games so u can catch the point later.

If someone tell me that wow isnt a cashcow then surely is a blizzard dev.
Eq,d&d and lord of the rings are all retarted games.Look at them they have lost anything and they keep charging people with micro transactions to buy weapons.
Oh and i forget they give u free to play access which in real means is a demo of the game. If u want more become a subscriber.
And i say that "i never never going to pay for any game except if it becomes 10 times better than wow and finally exterminate it.
They havent realize that these games are dead and once a worthy game comes out these games are going never to be seen again or even forgoten.
But the most ruthless of all is startrek.. god shake these people are the worst.Despite they charge u for 15 per month they have also an eshop so they can milk even more money.Wtf is going in the mmo industry.They are out of their minds

The 2nd kind of company is the one that cares to earn money but they plan to get what they deserve and not overcharge people.Furthermore they give more emphasis to the player.The player feels happy and they earn more money through expansions.
The game that made the revolution is Gw1 and now Gw2:hat:.Yes Gw2 has ultra quality and it's free!
They care about the player they say and we will see in the near future about that.

5)Conclusion
To finish with i have to say that Rift will have a great opponent and they must do sth about it.

For me as player when i pay 15 per month i want everything to be nearly perfect.
If there is sth i dont like i stop subscription at once.Because i pay and i demand.

And Gw2 says u dont have to pay 15 per month and we are also going to develop the best mmo u've ever seen and we will support it as if it was a 15/month game
Confident words.

If guildwars 2 make their words come true then rift is going to die along with other mmos but for some reason i think wow will still survive.This game is a real mmo competitor

Trion has to do sth with their payment methods.
And im not talking about putting micro transactions.
Micro payment is the biggest fail when it comes to the player.
Rift has 2 options
1)they must make a game that it will be even more better than gw2 so they can charge players.
2)or they must just end up with their free subscription model and charging players through expansions just like Gw2

If rift doesnt do sth about it then it's dead.

My opinion is that every mmo should be free and they should charge u only for the expanssions they create.

To tell the truth i was waiting for the revolution in the mmo industry and hope that Gw will make it happen.
Yes other companies must learn that 15 euro/month is a fail and thats why a lot of games fail.

Imagine a game that will make the same success as wow in 2011 and have a free subscription model and charge u only for the expanssions.Just imagine what is going to happen.
All companies will turn to the free subscription model and everyone will be happy.

15 euro per month is an EPIC FAIL
Paying only for expansions=success as long as the game is AAA

""31/08 FF 14 open beta time to judge their promisses haha

08-29-2010, 05:35 PM

Maeloda

As poorly written as your post is, I agree with your conclusion...

If f2p and b2p become the new trend in QUALITY mmos and not just the s*** that usually is f2p, then WoW will have a death by a thousand cuts (no one game will wipe out that game's subscriber base, not by a long shot lol).

In North America/Europe Guild Wars 2 has the greatest hype of any 2011 MMOs, and 2011 also seems to be the biggest year for MMOs in quiteeee a while.

Followed by Old Republic (may do very well), FFXIV (I forsee failure), TERA (ha, looks very pretty but asian grinder ahoy), The Secret World (just recently on people's radars really)

This is quite the competitiion and I hope Rift measures up. Not just in game quality, but in payment methods. If it is truly 'pay $50 for game and $15/mo for subscription and we'll make it even worse with a cash shop for any weapons and armor that is worth a damn', that would be the worst case scenario. Trion needs to reel people in imo. Paying for the game is fine - a modest subscription is bearable - a cash shop for non-fluff items would be death for this game.

09-26-2010, 07:09 PM

Siveon

Uhm i don't agree with the OP, first of all its not true that the MMO industry is going down the hole, the problem is that most players who play a MMO usually wont waste any time playing other MMOs at the same time because and there are just too many MMOs from F2P like Allods and Silk Road to P2P such as WoW and AION, since making such an investment requires a lot of inflow of money to maintain that means it requires a big community of paying(for items or monthly) costumers which means most of the titles will end up with the short stick, unfortunately.

What your saying about the payment methods is contradicting, your acting like the F2P adopted for GW is the only way to go but you've also mention that WoW as the biggest amount of MMO players which clearly means subscription is a reliable method as well, it really just ends up with one simple question "is the game worth it?" if it is players will come no matter the paying method they use, you also haven't said why transactions are bad other then calling it a "fail".

From my experience i prefer the subscription method because being subscription they are under pressure the whole time and this tends to make them give better support, fix things quicker and they add content when its ready without a need to wait for a expansions because like you said when players don't like something they can just cancel it, plus games like GW will end up having some kind of Item Shop like paying for extra character slots and other things.

Your conclusion just like your post is completely biased it's just you giving reasons why you think the game should have the things you like without any constructive criticism nor giving a chance to the other options/solutions.

The top games of 2011 are Gw2, Rift, Tera and StarWars all of them have their up and downs, just because you label Tera as "fail" doesn't mean it won't be a strong competitor.
From what i tried in gamescom all 3 Gw2, Tera and Rift have interesting ideas each of them offering different things.

09-26-2010, 08:50 PM

Valdur

OP,I don't see the MMO industry is going down the hole,I see the contrary.Blizzard set their product standard so high that everything that came after felt just like crap.A lot of studios thought that they could surf the wave but they all failed.

I still believe that making MMO for mass appeal will always peak at release then dropped to an average of 200K-300K players,with is fine as subscriber numbers but I think the contrary would have been better and only EvE Online have done that.If the regular "JOE" see a game sells a million copies and drop to 200K after three months all he will see is failure = product is not good

The 2011 crew are all big budget MMO which means that the publishers still believe that they can succeed and they are all aiming for quality first.Each of the four future release are so different from each other and that's a good sign for us players/consumers,we have choices :jumpclap:. Instead of one company monopolising the market,we will have four (big)companies sharing the market and competition is always good.

The future of MMO is a bright one it's just that they don't aim at the right target :D

09-26-2010, 11:05 PM

Elth

It's all relative

I will pay Trion 15/month to play in a seamless world.

Other people will get GW2 for free and play an instanced multiplayer game with IRC.

09-26-2010, 11:28 PM

Schemer

I don't see any vs. tbh. From what I know both game's appeal to different aspect's of MMO gameplay. I will buy both, cuz GW was a perfect addition to Eq2 in 2005-2006, and I belive it will be valid for Rift/GW2 in 2011.

09-27-2010, 02:11 AM

Fozzik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elth

It's all relative

I will pay Trion 15/month to play in a seamless world.

Other people will get GW2 for free and play an instanced multiplayer game with IRC.

GW2 is a shared persistent world just like Rift.

09-27-2010, 02:16 AM

forestwhitakereye

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elth

It's all relative

I will pay Trion 15/month to play in a seamless world.

Other people will get GW2 for free and play an instanced multiplayer game with IRC.

Been playing MMO's since EQ1 beta, tried practically every MMO out there mostly P2P ones on a monthly (sometimes lifetime sub) basis.

The F2P ones have never lived up to expectations and have always fallen short of the mark (imo) whether that be being able to by the uber sword of uberness for £20 and wtfpwning everyone with it or just skipping content because I happened to have a fiver in my pocket at the time.

GW I played for a bit, was fun, instanced but fun but I never looked at it as an MMO it never had the character development or rich environment that I wanted out of my MMO's and was just like any other FPS style game just with a bit more fleshed out community/auction house/system and some instanced events.

GW2 promises more but I still can't see them making any in roads into the traditional MMO player market only taking away a few of the short attention span kids who roam the internet (or rather roam WoW :P) for kicks.

Rift has tickled all of our fancies at Precept HQ because we're all of us old school EQ players, and this has so many similarlities it's getting us all excited to delve into a world worth investing in again. I'll pay for that gladly.

I really don't see 2011 as being a great war at all, it'll just be another round of who's got an interesting IP to check out for a while.

It's the cycle of MMO's with WoW sitting pretty at the top because it does everything so easily. You did miss Cataclysm in your run through of 2011 things to watch. If they deliver on the promises of Cataclysm and return to challenging raid content then you will have another fight on your hands.

Re-roll in new world or press on with well established characters in WoW or <insert whatever MMO here>

2011 will be interesting but I think it's healthy for the MMO industry as a whole, there is no right or wrong method in funding these things but Blizzard has definitely set the standard (love it or hate it) for payment models and retaining subscriber base, in fact you have to take your hat off to them for even hinting at tougher raid content and rewarding risk again having ***** slapped the old hardcore raiders with dead simple content in the last WotLK expac, hopefully that *****slap will return with interest to all the ezmoders who thought ICC was tough :)

Gonna be a fun ride.

09-27-2010, 04:57 AM

Grovak

I think games should be justified in charging $1000.00 a month if they feel their game is worth that much. The thing that determines whether or not it is worth that is us. Any game can charge any amount, but if the game isn't any good people won't pay it.

I tried the original guild wars and it just wasn't for me. I don't see how the next one will be any better. I'm sold on Rift so that's the one I'm waiting for and I'll pay whatever subscription is there.

09-27-2010, 09:25 AM

charlionfire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fozzik

GW2 is a shared persistent world just like Rift.

That may be so, but the emphasis is on seamless, which is the difference between the two games.

Also, this will not be the 'final battle', threads like these will pop up every week or so until 2015.

09-27-2010, 09:35 AM

Knuckles

I don't really see it being a contest between the two games, if Rift has content, compelling game play,and a solid community that many gamers want they will gladly pay the sub fee regardless if another game is free or not also, the fact GW2 is free to play also means it won't make people choose between it and another game that charges a sub, so they might actually be more inclined to play both when they want a change of pace, or even perhaps on server maintenance days depending on how those would be implemented. Also, if my 15 dollars a month helps weed out the kind of players with childish attitudes, the ones who find more pleasure in flaming, trolling and griefing other players than playing the game, I'd gladly pay it. Not saying this will happen in GW2 any more than it can in a p2p game, but the possibility is there simply because it is so much easier for a variety people to access given the format.

09-27-2010, 10:25 AM

Fozzik

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlionfire

That may be so, but the emphasis is on seamless, which is the difference between the two games.

Also, this will not be the 'final battle', threads like these will pop up every week or so until 2015.

Seamless is the difference? By which you mean what?

You are assuming GW2 will have loading times between zones? Or do you know that for a fact?

You're making a big assumption that both these games will still be up and running in five years. :eek2:

09-27-2010, 11:10 AM

AMEI

$15 a month is the Industry Standard.

It used to not be that way. Some of us older Rifters remember paying $10 a month for access, and $2 an hour for play time.

Except for Guild Wars, any MMO that does not charge the industry standard, is NOT worth playing.

and the free ones have spy/malware embedded, and no one wants that.

09-27-2010, 11:23 AM

Aurelie

I think the game should be F2P perhaps, not 15$ a month that is.

I like the 15$ / month system for my favorite game, I just doubt RIFT will be that game. The game doesn't offer that extra for me currently. I have many critiques about the animations, the character design that's so-so, races that are so-so. Carbon copy WoW UI. There's so many small little things that should be better. No real death penalty. Still no clue if the raids will be good.

On the other hand I love the world, the idea of trying out multiple classes, some of the lore which is fun to read, I really want to at the very least test the game and if it's great I will have no problem paying 15$ month.

I simply don't agree that every MMO I play should cost me 15$ a month, only the very best with excellent service should ask that price and I'm not convinced Rift is that game. I've been disappointed so many times trying out new MMO, I just go back to EQ each time. But that doesn't mean Rift can't be a great game.