I've been wearing lead for years, sometimes 20+ lbs. Without a doubt, the belt is the better way to go. Using a vest caused my neck to be quite sore by the end of the day. Never had any issues like that with the belt.

Wearing that much weight with a belt is going to put the weight right on top of your hip "pointer". That can get uncomfortable during the course of the day. Try and find a weight belt that will let you skip those pouches right on top of the hip. If you need more weight, and need to use a vest in addition, max out the weight on the belt.

Re: amount of weight, you're looking at minimum 20 lbs, IMO.

Also, pack your main to open slower rather than faster

The 200+ lb guy could look into using a fabric jump suit, instead of the "slick" ones. They'll grab a little more air, since they're porous, and slow him down.

Whatever you do, don't arch too much. To do good 4-way, you really need a solid box position. Otherwise, you'll end up changing body positions when taking compressed grips, etc. That's going to cause issues with having a steady fall rate (i.e., you'll put "burbles" into the formation).

My wife _sometimes_ wears that much, but when we do 4 way, and us 2 centers are in the 220-230 lb range (she's 120 and 5'5), but she normally wears between 14 and 18.

To the OP: start with what you are comfortable wearing (remember it will significantly change your canopy wing load) and see from there. he may need to wear sleeves or a baggier suit, and you may need to add more.

Thank you for the advise. I have a larger canopy than I could fly safely (168 Pilot) so the wingload doesn't bother me. Anyway I think I'll start with less lead and put on more if necessary. 20 lb seems a lot

Thank you for the advise. I have a larger canopy than I could fly safely (168 Pilot) so the wingload doesn't bother me. Anyway I think I'll start with less lead and put on more if necessary. 20 lb seems a lot

As Dragon2 once pointed out to me:

Remember that you'll be loading your reserve that much heavier too. Sound advice.

Thank you for the advise. I have a larger canopy than I could fly safely (168 Pilot) so the wingload doesn't bother me. Anyway I think I'll start with less lead and put on more if necessary. 20 lb seems a lot

As Dragon2 once pointed out to me:

Remember that you'll be loading your reserve that much heavier too. Sound advice.

Ah, yeah. . As I should have remembered when loading up on lead thereby loading my Techno 115 @ 1.7 last year, and coming in hot.

From a boxman, your only option is to arch harder which doesn't do a damn thing in making your cross section seen by the relative wind any smaller.

Take a mantis camp - fast fall rate - equals narrow and small and you get a LOT more range from just flying your body. You get the small benefit from the rounder arch, PLUS you have more options in making yourself smaller to the wind.

That said, that's a big difference in weight and form for flying with your friend. Just work your way up to the higher lead.

A friend of mine back in Alberta used to wear 2 belts, with about 30-35 lbs total for 4way. He was about 6'2 or 6'3 and was pretty skinny too.

That being said, to the OP: sound slike you have a good plan. Start with less weight (what you feel confy with in freefall and under canopy) and look into adjusting your position, getting the others to slow down, and possible add more lead if needed.

But in the end, dont be afraid of lead, and dont see it as a failure (some do). We just have so many body types out there, that us heavies add drag, and you lightweights add lead.

Try contacting Frank van Gelder from LookMa (http://www.lookma.de). He makes a new type of lead vest which is much more comfortable than most current belts and vests (and with a cutaway). When you wear one it doesn't feel like a belt with the same amount of lead, it's much more comfortable. He also takes in account your height and weight to place the lead in the position that will help you the most for controlling you fallrate.

Frank's look pretty overdesigned for the use, but at least he looks like he's trying to get there. He should do a search and find the ones that Velocity used to make with the permanent wieght in the lumbar shape in the back - with pockets on the side to add more. Simpler, but the end goal is similar.

I don't thank anyone is making ones like those any more. They were about the best design out there for comfort. My wife was going to start trying to build a similar design, but we just don't make belts any more except for close friends. The cost of shot is just all over the place lately.

other options to the OP - some rigs can also be ordered with weight pouch in the back pad...

to no one in particular - the newer belts I've seen lately have been pretty disappointing, little reinforcement sewn in straps rather than straps that run the length of the belt,,,, the weights have actually come in plastic bags that are STAPLED shut. seriously?

He should do a search and find the ones that Velocity used to make with the permanent wieght in the lumbar shape in the back - with pockets on the side to add more. Simpler, but the end goal is similar.

I don't thank anyone is making ones like those any more. They were about the best design out there for comfort.

Best deal on shot I know- Consider visiting a trap range for "reclaimed" lead shot. Some pellets get a little deformed but ought to work fine. Last time I bought some for boat ballast, it was well under half the cost of unfired.

I don't thank anyone is making ones like those any more. They were about the best design out there for comfort.

John Storrie, Storrie Parachute Works in Denton, TX.

He still makes them. John's a good guy, I'll send people his way. I'm still trying to convince Skimmer to just make a couple for us (once she has her pattern made, then I slyly have her add it to her offerings ..)

Best deal on shot I know- Consider visiting a trap range for "reclaimed" lead shot. Some pellets get a little deformed but ought to work fine. Last time I bought some for boat ballast, it was well under half the cost of un-fired.

This gets us in to thread drift about using weights to change balance. If you only need to adjust fall rate, stick with weights near your center of gravity: belt or inside your main container.

Balance weights are a far more complex subject and usually start with a senior coach analysing video of you in formations. Some women have such a "low center of gravity" that they need to fully extend their legs and retract their arms to approach formations. These people might be helped by "balance weights."

Balance weights are usually worn high on the torso. If you need balance weights, start by experimenting with a vest that has pockets at chest/shoulder blade level. Once you have determined how much weight and how high, contact a Master Rigger or container manufacturer and ask about the cost of sewing weight pockets into your back-pad or reserve container. Weight pockets in the back-pad are easy to change between jumps. Weight pockets inside the reserve container are rarely worn by any but the hardest-core competitors.

Back in the mid-1990s I even sewed a few weight pockets onto the front of harnesses. Talons made between 1994 and 1997 had extra-long "mud flaps" (aka. 3-Ring covers) that could accomodate 3 to 5 pounds of lead per side.

I have seen a few rigs that had pockets for weights sewn on the side that rests on the back. Sure, you feel the weight when you put the rig on all the way until you exit, then once you deploy, the weight is off of you.

I have seen a few rigs that had pockets for weights sewn on the side that rests on the back. Sure, you feel the weight when you put the rig on all the way until you exit, then once you deploy, the weight is off of you.

I've seen a couple of javelins like that. I likes. Just wouldn't be smart to wear lead in your rig while jumping near water - you can't ditch it like you can a weightbelt. I'm not actually sure you can use it in a swoop competition, for that reason.

Just wouldn't be smart to wear lead in your rig while jumping near water - you can't ditch it like you can a weightbelt.

I plan on ditching the whole rig if I land in the water.... So, I don't see the weights as part fo the rig being that big of a deal. In fact, it is one less piece of kit to ditch in the event of an emergency.