Is there a quote attributed to the Buddha that's something like, "You are your own refuge, for who else could be?" I was just wondering if that exact phrasing is correct. I have seen several quotes about "being one's own refuge," but was trying to remember the wording of this one in particular.

Therefore, Ānanda, dwell with yourself as your own island (dīpa),¹ with yourself as your own refuge, take no other refuge. Take the Dhamma as your island, take the Dhamma as your refuge, take no other refuge. And how, Ānanda, does a monk dwell taking himself as his own island, taking himself as his own refuge, taking no other refuge? Here, Ānanda, a bhikkhu dwells contemplating the body in the body, ardent, clearly comprehending, and mindful, having abandoned covetousness and grief concerning the world. He dwells contemplating feelings in feelings ... thoughts in thoughts ... mind-objects in mind-objects...

So, gaining self-reliance entails practising the four foundations of mindfulness, ardently, clearly comprehending, and mindfully until the goal is reached. This is best done by following the guidance of a qualified meditation instructor, but if one cannot find one, it can also be done by careful study in conjunction with practice.

"When we transcend one level of truth, the new level becomes what is true for us. The previous one is now false. What one experiences may not be what is experienced by the world in general, but that may well be truer. (Ven. Nanananda)

“I hope, Anuruddha, that you are all living in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.” (MN 31)

Gombrich in "What the Buddha Thought" thinks this is a rebuke of "taking refuge in the Buddha". A warning against devotion and glorification of the Buddha after his death.

When this concentration is thus developed, thus well developed by you, then wherever you go, you will go in comfort. Wherever you stand, you will stand in comfort. Wherever you sit, you will sit in comfort. Wherever you lie down, you will lie down in comfort.

Kamran wrote:Gombrich in "What the Buddha Thought" thinks this is a rebuke of "taking refuge in the Buddha". A warning against devotion and glorification of the Buddha after his death.

Certainly if devotion to the Buddha or the Sangha was causing one to be complacent in their devotion to (and hence practice of) the dhamma then that would be problematic. My understanding of taking refuge in Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha is the notion of putting stock into something. One invests in the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha under the confidence that it will provide a good return for oneself. The idea being that one puts stock into the claim that the Buddha awoke to a dhamma that leads to the end of all dukkha, that he established an order of contemplatives that have preserved the teaching and that has members who have awoken to this same dhamma and that as a result we are able to awaken to this dhamma and put an end to all dukkha for ourselves. And that is why the triple gem is a good refuge, because it allows to become islands unto ourselves, freed from the craving that binds one to the masses of fuel that lead to further dukkha.

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

Gombrich in "What the Buddha Thought" thinks this is a rebuke of "taking refuge in the Buddha". A warning against devotion and glorification of the Buddha after his death.

I wonder if Gombrich had read this...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.htmlTake the case of another man. He is not even endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha. He is not joyous and swift in wisdom and has not gained release. But he has just these things: the faculty of faith, of energy, of mindfulness, of concentration, of wisdom. Yet if he has merely faith, merely affection for the Tathagata, that man, too, does not go to... states of woe

Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction. What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One. If this single thing is recollected and made much, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.Anguttara-Nikaya: Ekanipata: Ekadhammapali: PañhamavaggaVSMVMMWBBTBHTWTBTMy Page

ground wrote:Whatever you are taking refuge to your refuge is your own idea of refuge. So it boils down to "You are your own refuge..."

Actually all of your idea is not yours, so you are not your own refuge

Dhp 158. One should first establish oneself in what is proper; then only should one instruct others. Thus the wise man will not be reproached.

160. One truly is the protector of oneself; who else could the protector be? With oneself fully controlled, one gains a mastery that is hard to gain.

Beings are owners of their kamma, heirs of their kamma; kamma is the womb from which they have sprung, kamma is their friend and refuge. Thus kamma divides beings into the high and low. --M 135 iii 206.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

ground wrote:Whatever you are taking refuge to your refuge is your own idea of refuge. So it boils down to "You are your own refuge..."

Actually all of your idea is not yours, so you are not your own refuge

Yes. Realizing that all ideas are neither self nor other no need for refuge arises. However thinking this way and/or inferring is not realizing and because this is the case the idea of refuge may arise.

ground wrote:Whatever you are taking refuge to your refuge is your own idea of refuge. So it boils down to "You are your own refuge..."

Actually all of your idea is not yours, so you are not your own refuge

Yes. Realizing that all ideas are neither self nor other no need for refuge arises. However thinking this way and/or inferring is not realizing and because this is the case the idea of refuge may arise.

May arise? The Buddha seemed to think that it has ultilatian value in the process of coming to awakening.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

ground wrote:Yes. Realizing that all ideas are neither self nor other no need for refuge arises. However thinking this way and/or inferring is not realizing and because this is the case the idea of refuge may arise.

I wonder at what point along the path there is no need for refuge. Given that we've already seen the actuality of that described by the Buddha as the four foundations of mindfulness...

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Dīpa can be translated as “island” or “lamp.” I checked the Commentary, which gives the meaning of an island.

I think it's interesting that the Chinese translations of the Mahāsāṃghika Ekottarikāgama, Sarvāstivāda Madhyamāgama and the Dharmaguptaka Dīrghāgama made from 385 to 413 all translate 'dīpa' as 'lamp'. However, the 443 Chinese translation of the Mūlasarvāstivāda Saṃyuktāgama and the 703 translation of the Mūlasarvāstivāda Vinaya translate 'dīpa' as 'island'.

Hard to tell whether these reflect traditions of interpretation within the early schools, or whether they are just choices that the translators made for themselves.

EDIT: it may be relevant that the 385-413 'lamp' readings are thought to be translations from Prakrit, whereas the two later Mūlasarvāstivāda 'Island' readings are probably from Sanskrit. Really need more examples to trace a pattern though.

...Which is why I find it pointless to learn Pali, in order to 'appreciate the teachings more' and be able to understand them more profoundly.... If educate scholarly types are at odds, imagine a total inept like me getting their head round it.

No, I will just stick with what I read in English; accept there may be variations according to which translation I read, and glean the best possible lesson I can from it.

I have too much negative kamma to transform and eliminate, to worry about a lamp or an Island....

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap." ‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....