MY SITUATION!

what i think about abortion now thta i'm pregnant

by:Bernie18

well here's the thing...i'm 18 and i am four months pregnant. it was a mistake. i met a guy, had sex, and a WEEK later...i'm pregnant. we had only been together for 1 month before i found out i was pregnant (i was 5 weeks when i found out). it was his idea for me to take the test. i probably wouldnt have taken a pregnancy test until about 3 months into the pregnancy, mainly because i unfortunately didnt take UNPROTECTED SEX=PREGNANCY very seriously until it happened to me! my life was not organized at all, i had no college education, a job at mcdonalds, and lived in an apartment with my mom who is also not too good financially. I COULDNT have a baby at this point. No money, no education, no great job, a baby's dad i really didnt even know...not an ideal situation. but here's what i thought to myself...I MADE THE MISTAKE. i DIDNT GET ON THE PILL. I DIDNT TELL MY BOYFRIEND TO PUT ON A CONDOM. THAT WAS NO ONE'S FAULT BUT MINE!!!!! so why,why,why kill a baby who had NO choice in the matter? i just believe i made the choice and now i have to suffer the consequences. thats what i feel, thats what i believe.Actually, many of my family members WANTED and wouldve supported my decision to have an abortion. So it was even tougher to keep the baby when i couldve easily had help getting rid of it.now i am going to get on welfare and move back in with my dad until i can afford my own place. the baby is due next april, and i cant say i'm excited, but i'm going to face it.

reply from:Banned Member

Love your little baby fearlessly! I was such a baby once, and now speak for the unborn when and where I can. You will never regret keeping this new life that has been put in your care. Appreciate the time ahead, stay strong and don't be afraid to reach out to others for help and support. You are not alone!

reply from:GodsLaw4Us2Live

A little boy or girl is a joy. They laugh and giggle you know. They love to study stuff and try things out.Oh, another thing about babies; they love their mommies very much. They grow very attached to their mom, they count on them for everything, and they cry if they are separated from their mom. The bond between a mother and her baby is very special; there is no love like it.

reply from:4given

There are many organizations that can help you with the basic needs. Pregnancy resource centers (and other organizations) offer diapers, clothing etc. I understand that this may be a challenging time for you, and I know parenthood also has its sets of challenges. Parenthood, like faith is a refining process. It is a lot for anyone to go through, but there is help for you and your baby until you can get on your feet. I will help you find the CPC in your area if you so desire. I agree with spinwiddy as far as her statements about adoption. There are many men and women that have their profiles on record waiting on the gift of a child. Whatever you decide in regard to adoption or parenting, you will get through it and there is help. Truly, regardless of the moments that led up to the creation and birth of your child- when you hold him (or her), you will at least momentarily feel complete. There is no greater gift, IMO . I wish you and your baby well. Let me know how I can help you if desired.

reply from:ProInformed

Spinwiddy I commend you for making this suggestion and I agree that it is a win-win-win solution for everybody involved.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

You can always give the child up for adoption if you can't support it. You need to think of what's best of your child. I'm really happy you've chosen to carry it though!! I think you need to definitely find out about government programs for prenatal care right now. The biggest thing is finding out how you can get on your feet financially as fast as possible. What kind of an education do you want, what do you want to do in life? Now is as good a time as any to think about your future There is aid to go to college; loans and grants. Anyone can go to college, no matter how poor you are. Actually to be honest, being poor makes it easier since you can get a lot more financial aid.

reply from:GodsLaw4Us2Live

That is very compassionate of you to recommend what is best for the child. A little boy or girl can thank-you.

reply from:Beprolifewithme

awww congratulations!! This little baby may have not come at the right time, but you are going to have a baby I applaud you for being so brave and not turning to the so called "easy way". Abortion. You are very brave to make the right decision even when termination is readily made available to you. Best of luck with your baby!! If you need any further help, you can always count on us

Adoption is a wonderful option but think and pray on it. Ecide what is best for your baby (1st) and for you. PArenting is always putting the child first. I never knew what joy really meant until I had a child. They are so wonderful. I love being a parent but I am married witha very supportive husband. Over two million people a year hope to adopt so if you choose adoption there are many choices in parents for your child. IF you do choose adoption I recommned open adoption. It is more healing for the birth parents and you can see that your child is well taken care of. May God bless you and your baby.

reply from:Cecilia

Funny, all those conservatives who compalin and moan about their money being forceably taken by Obama and given to the needy sure are quiet now. Once it's born though then that's fair game.Have an adoption, it's win win win win (for you, baby, adoptive parents, and society).

reply from:Rosalie

No, it wasn't. He is just as responsible for not wearing a condom as you are for not using any birth control. I do find it sad that you're not excited about your baby. Hopefully your feelings will change and you will not be a parent just out of some twisted sense of obligation.Good luck.

reply from:carolemarie

Most women love their babies once they see them. But I would suggest that if you are not ready to be a mom, adoption is wonderfu. They have open adoptions now and the birth mom gets letter and updates on the child....that is always nice. My son is adopted and the greatest boy in the world! I can't imagine the world without him! His mom was very brave and I am grateful for that unselfish act...

reply from:Bernie18

thank you every1 for being supportive. in regards to adoption, i'm not so sure i can live happily with that decision. i just feel like this baby is a part of me, and to give it up would be to give away a part of myself. i have a history of depression, and i think giving the baby up would make me very depressed. i'm sure other women give a baby up for adoption and feel sad too, but i'm not as confident that i can handle it emotionally. i'm think i'm going to keep the baby and raise it the best i can.

reply from:Hosea

There is probably a pregnancy help center in your area. Here is Cincinnati at the pregnancy centers, we offer maternity clothes, diapers, formula, and other parenting items along with Parenting classes. If you need help finding one in your area tell me what part of the country you are from and I will help and try and find a pregnancy help center near you. You need to be the one making the choice of parenting or adoption. I agree that I could never make an adoption plan for my child unless the adoption was open and I could maintain contact with the adoptive parents. That is why I recommended open adoption if you choose that option. Good Luck and may God bless you.

reply from:angell

Bernie18, I am so happy that you decided to keep your unborn baby. When you see your precious baby you will be overjoyed. I wish you all the best with your pregnancy and your child.

reply from:nancyu

Ignore spinwiddy and rosalie. Life is better when you do.Don't let anyone pressure you into putting your child up for adoption either. Parenthood isn't easy, that doesn't mean you can't do it. Congratulations and Best wishes to you and your child. Hope you'll keep us posted!

reply from:yoda

Good for you. Reach out for help, and you will probably find it.

reply from:Rosalie

Bernie - think it through. Do you have a friend you can talk to about this so he or she could help you to take a step back and look at the bigger picture?My only advice is to really think it through, to make a plan, to weigh your options and make a responsible, informed choice. Don't let anyone pressure you into anything. And like I said before, good luck with everything.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

Yeah... my last comment is: "Is the best you can do the best the child deserves?"

reply from:RiverMoonLady

She must be a troll. No adult woman is that stupid.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

She is not an adult woman. She is 18 - she may be an adult by law, but she is still a teenager mentally and physically.

reply from:RiverMoonLady

She is not an adult woman. She is 18 - she may be an adult by law, but she is still a teenager mentally and physically.She must be a troll. No 18-year-old woman is that stupid. Most 14-year-olds know EXACTLY what will probably happen if you have unprotected sex.

reply from:Cecilia

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<You're not ready.It's clear that this is all about you, and what you want, and what would make you happy.You never expressed a single thought about the child you're expecting.By the way, if you're not emotionally stable enough to handle adoption, then you REALLY aren't emotionally stable enough to handle motherhood - especially single motherhood.Astute spinwiddy. This child is not ready for a child. So prolifers when you get your pocketbooks out to pay your taxes are you going to be thinking of this 18 year old and how wonderful it is that you are paying welfare for her? I hope so.

reply from:scopia19822

"So prolifers when you get your pocketbooks out to pay your taxes are you going to be thinking of this 18 year old and how wonderful it is that you are paying welfare for her? I hope so."This child is going to have to grow up and grow up fast. I got pregnant at 17 and before I was forced to abort, I was prepared to grow up and raise my child. I got pregnant with my son when I was 19, still a child IMO and I HAD to grow up and fast. As far as welfare goes in most states it is now 'workfare" which means if you dont work or go to school or job training your benefits get cut off.I have no problem helping those who want to help and improve themselves. I would rather see my taxes go for that, than to subsidize PP abortions and other stupid pork barrel projects that are a huge waste of tax payer money.

reply from:carolemarie

I am all for helping women and children who need it. But welfare is not much help, she would be better off getting some help with school so she can train for a job to support her baby and herself.There are some really fantastic programs that help families off welfare and enable them to become self-supporting....it takes a committment to the family to get them able to be selfsupporting.

reply from:nancyu

Two great posts here. I believe in helping women by helping them to help themselves, instead of helping them decide to ditch their children (one way or another.) No one else is better capable of raising your child than you are, and there is no shame in asking for help. Everyone has to sometimes.(I could give you a long list of people you should ignore, but I'm sure you can figure it out.)

"They were told how much trouble it was to have a baby."Sound familiar? At least someone told the truth! It IS a lot of trouble to have a baby and raise it for 18 years or more.

reply from:GodsLaw4Us2Live

Yes, I had to give it all up for the kids. I am basically living and working to meet their needs. I am a slave to them. There is no money or time left over for other personal pursuits.So, do you say selfish people should be able to kill their kids if they want so they can devote themselves to themselves? Do you believe we should not be servants?

reply from:RiverMoonLady

I can't wait to see that website, but YOUR link doesn't work, either. Please try again.And no, I do not believe in killing viable fetuses OR born people.But what if your daughter was not only celebrating her 16th birthday, but also waiting to deliver her out-of-wedlock child and keep it? You would be doing a lot more than making lasagna and cake. You would be buying a crib, bassinet, car seat, changing table, other furniture, baby clothes, diapers, playpen, safety gates, formula, baby food, various other baby paraphenalia, vitamins, diaper rash cream, nasal aspirator, rectal thermometer, etc. etc. etc. You would be taking her to and from her prenatal visits, helping her through childbirth classes, making her eat right, take her vitamins, stay away from drugs, alcohol and cigarettes, coaching her through labor and delivery, taking care of the newborn while she recovers, paying the doctor and hospital bills and raising her child until she gets on her feet and (hopefully) finds a male partner who is willing to raise another man's child. You would be giving your life up AGAIN for your grandchild.Should you be expected to do so? You tell me. Should you FORCE your daughter to grow up suddenly? I hope you know how to do that. Should you raise her child for her? You might have to.How many women want nothing more than to see their children safely grown up and on their own instead of raising more children? How many women have already put plenty of their own plans on hold? Is it fair to make them put those plans on hold for another 18 or 20 years, until they are too old to even do half of what they planned to do "after the children grow up?" Is it really SELFISH to want the rest of your adult life for yourself, after you have already given up the best years of your life for your children?I'm sorry, but if that's selfish, so be it. I planned to have my children when I was young so that I would have time for my husband and myself later in life. I simply don't have it in me to go through all that again. If you do, that's wonderful.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

I dislike people who live on welfare and refuse to get a job; but I love people who simply need it to get on their feet or feed their child. My own parents used WIC when I was a baby. There is no shame in needing help. There IS shame in abusing the system.

reply from:Bernie18

maybe you are right. maybe i should give my baby up. i'm only 5 months pregnant. i have time to think about it.

reply from:Bernie18

Actually, RiverMoonLady, i am not stupid. i'm offended though, at your comments that i'm a troll. isn't this a pro-life website? aren't i making a good decision by keeping the baby? just because i'm 18 doesn't give me any excuse to have an abortion. the baby doesn't care whether i'm 18 or 35-it just wants a chance to live and i'm giving it exactly that by continuing this pregnancy. i don't think that is wrong at all, in fact its a very selfless decision on my part. i couldve got an abortion and therefore made my life a hell of a lot easier. but i'm willing to put my needs second. i dont care if i cant go to parties anymore and live a normal 18 yr old life. i dont care if i have to spend all my time taking care of this baby. all i know is my parents gave me a chance to live and this baby deserves the same. i'm willing to give this baby 100% of myself and what i have to offer. and i admit i made poor choices when it came to sex and protection, but i just didnt think it would happen to me. a lot of girls think that way. now i learned my lesson and i'm telling my friends that it could happen to them too, so be careful. in the future, maybe you could be less condemning. no one is perfect.

reply from:nancyu

Bernie, have you seen the movie "Dan in Real Life?" I loved the movie, it's one of the best I've seen in a long time. I won't tell you about the movie, except that its overall message is "When you plan your life, plan to be surprised" Welcome your child into the world, and ignore the people who tell you it's a mistake. It won't be easy, and there will be times when you wish you were on a different path in life, but I'm sure you will see that your child is no mistake.

reply from:RiverMoonLady

You are making a wonderful decision to give your child up for adoption. You do not seem anywhere NEAR ready to raise a child. Make someone very happy with the unselfish decision to give your child to someone else. You can always have another child (or several) when you are older and ready to have a family.I apologize if you are insulted, but I find it hard to believe that anyone who is 18 does not know that the best way to get pregnant is to have unprotected sex without birth control.

reply from:yoda

Yes, I thought you'd approve of saying something to a pregnant woman to try to convince her to abort (as if women don't already know that). Very nice.

reply from:yoda

Good luck with that. She will attack anyone who opposes abortion, for any reason. Yes, this is a "prolife site", but only by virtue of ownership. Lots of nasty proaborts post here, almost completely uncensored. So, you have to have a thick skin to stay here.Personally, I think you make a lot of sense, and come across as a sensible person.

reply from:nancyu

Actually, RiverMoonLady, i am not stupid. i'm offended though, at your comments that i'm a troll. isn't this a pro-life website? aren't i making a good decision by keeping the baby? just because i'm 18 doesn't give me any excuse to have an abortion. the baby doesn't care whether i'm 18 or 35-it just wants a chance to live and i'm giving it exactly that by continuing this pregnancy. i don't think that is wrong at all, in fact its a very selfless decision on my part. i couldve got an abortion and therefore made my life a hell of a lot easier. but i'm willing to put my needs second. i dont care if i cant go to parties anymore and live a normal 18 yr old life. i dont care if i have to spend all my time taking care of this baby. all i know is my parents gave me a chance to live and this baby deserves the same. i'm willing to give this baby 100% of myself and what i have to offer. and i admit i made poor choices when it came to sex and protection, but i just didnt think it would happen to me. a lot of girls think that way. now i learned my lesson and i'm telling my friends that it could happen to them too, so be careful. in the future, maybe you could be less condemning. no one is perfect.You shouldn't take offense at anything uttered by RML. She's not even a person. She's a manipulative troll, and nothing more.http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=5273&enterthread=y

reply from:RiverMoonLady

Yes, trolls are known to spend time nearly every day on a forum and post over a thousand times. At least I'm not a dried-up old fart or a mindless whore like nancyu.

reply from:nancyu

I hope your boyfriend is taking his share of responsibility for your child. If he won't, don't be afraid to insist that he does. This wouldn't be selfish for you to do. You have to think about your child, and what is best for him or her. Do you still have a relationship with your child's dad? It isn't too late for either of you to work on getting some job skills. Take some night courses, learn a trade. Do some research. Hopefully the welfare program in your state can help you with some ideas for earning money. In case you haven't followed my advice about ignoring spinwiddy, remember that you're a person, not a statistic. And so is your child.

reply from:yoda

I think the jury is still out on those questions.......

reply from:RiverMoonLady

The link didn't work, darn it. Could you PM me with the addy so I can read all about miss nancyu? Thanks.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

None of that gives you a right to kill that child. I TEACH these children. They are all wonderful and light up my day!That's absolutely horrific... so why should we add baby-killer as a label these poor teens must bear?This is where adoption comes in to play. A poor mother doesn't need an abortion, she needs money.Further evidence that kids need to be pressured to abstain, use birth control, and have solid goals and dreams for their futures. Positive behavior support encourages success.That's a terrible fact, since it's actually higher than 8x. That statistic is forgetting all of the babies killed by abortion too. None of those children deserve to die.Poor mothers need money, not abortions.More evidence that we need to encourage teens to abstain or use proper birth control. Personally I don't think kids should be having sex, AND it's ILLEGAL. But none of that gives anyone the right to kill these babies, nor does it mean these children deserve death. There needs to be better welfare-to-work programs and programs directly designed for teen moms to get them educated and into a career - not just a "job". So where was your proof that abortion is justifiable? Most of the problems listed above could be solved by absitnence, proper birth control eduation, adoption, and welfare-to-work programs. NONE of the problems above can be solved by killing a baby.

reply from:nancyu

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<That's pretty hysterical coming from the woman who created an entire thread to discuss how crappy her life is as a single mother:https://Nancyu's Crappy Life">http://www.prolifeamerica.com/...=5352&enterthread=y[/S...not that you're BITTER or anything.Nancy, you couldn't PAY ME to live your miserable life.Before you become the living, breathing epitome of "misery loves company," why don't you give Bernie access to the facts?Spinny, I wouldn't trade one moment of my life with my kids for all the riches in the world. If you think I'm bitter, you've missed something; or maybe you're missing something. The ability to think and reason maybe? I don't know, I really can't help you, so I'm putting you back on ignore now. Seeya!

reply from:RiverMoonLady

Spinwiddy - found it, thanks.Nancyu - about that dropout son of yours - have you checked into Job Corps? It's a government program for young adults to help them get a GED and training in a career, anything from medical assistant to electrician to plumber to all sorts of things. One of my sons graduated from the Job Corps camp in NE PA with his GED and a certificate as an electrician and he has had NO problems finding work that he loves and that pays REALLY well.

reply from:nancyu

None of that gives you a right to kill that child. I TEACH these children. They are all wonderful and light up my day!That's absolutely horrific... so why should we add baby-killer as a label these poor teens must bear?This is where adoption comes in to play. A poor mother doesn't need an abortion, she needs money.Further evidence that kids need to be pressured to abstain, use birth control, and have solid goals and dreams for their futures. Positive behavior support encourages success.That's a terrible fact, since it's actually higher than 8x. That statistic is forgetting all of the babies killed by abortion too. None of those children deserve to die.Poor mothers need money, not abortions.More evidence that we need to encourage teens to abstain or use proper birth control. Personally I don't think kids should be having sex, AND it's ILLEGAL. But none of that gives anyone the right to kill these babies, nor does it mean these children deserve death. There needs to be better welfare-to-work programs and programs directly designed for teen moms to get them educated and into a career - not just a "job". So where was your proof that abortion is justifiable? Most of the problems listed above could be solved by absitnence, proper birth control eduation, adoption, and welfare-to-work programs. NONE of the problems above can be solved by killing a baby.Don't you get it lib? She doesn't need to prove anything. She only needs to convince one or two that aborting is the right thing to do, and her "good deed" for the day is done. Can you see why I say they're not people?

reply from:scopia19822

"maybe you are right. maybe i should give my baby up. i'm only 5 months pregnant. i have time to think about it. "Dont let anyone force/coerce or guilt trip you to either abort or put the child up for adoption. I was 19 when I got pregnant with my son and 20 when I had him. Not much older than you are now and of course it was hard. But for 2 years I went to college, worked and took care of my son and my husband who is disabled. It can be done and their is help out there such as Wic , food stamps and TANF if you qualify. At the same time you will have to grow up and fast. Young women do it every day. At the same time you should work, go to school or learn a trade. In order to get TANF you would have to work or go to school. However if you do choose adoption in most states you cannot arbitraily do it on your own, the father would have to consent as well. If the mother does not want the baby, the father can be granted sole custody. I would rather see a woman keep and raise her baby, as I believe in the strong importance of blood family relationships, but if it came down that you cannot or do not want to parent I would rather see a child placed for adoption.

reply from:Bernie18

Thank you everyone for your help and comments. It helps to have someone to talk to. I came to this site a few days ago and decided to sign up because i'm among few people in my family and among friends who are pro-life. Most of my family and friends supported an abortion-but i went against them and kept the baby. So thank you for your support.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

We're glad to hear that! I just wish we could give you some actual support.

reply from:carolemarie

Bernice,You can call your local pregnancy help center, they can help you with all the practical aid, and most have parenting classses, or know where you can take free ones. It is all good stuff, there are new mom support groups to help you. If you call you can get a very good support system in place to make this easier. So congrats on the baby.Blessings,Carolemarie

reply from:jujujellybean

Why are you so against women keeping their babies? Are you so against her sacrificing for her child? It's called love. She is willing to put her life aside to help this new life enter the world. Its a WANTED baby. Why are you so against her keeping it?I mean, I'm not saying that adoption wouldn't be good, b/c sure, it would...but if she wants to raise her child, you gotta at least give her credit for being so brave.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

Why are you so against women keeping their babies? Are you so against her sacrificing for her child? It's called love. She is willing to put her life aside to help this new life enter the world. Its a WANTED baby. Why are you so against her keeping it?I mean, I'm not saying that adoption wouldn't be good, b/c sure, it would...but if she wants to raise her child, you gotta at least give her credit for being so brave.There's a difference between bravery and selfishness. If she cannot provide the best possible life for that child, and if in fact it is going to have a poor life, which we all know leads to many problems like crime, low education and further teen pregnancy, then why would you knowingly, LOVINGLY do that to your child?

reply from:Bernie18

i recently got an ultrasound done and some blood tests and its a healthy baby girl. i got to see her on the monitor. she has long legs and she had her hands in fists in front of her face (little stinker-they offered me a 4D ultrasound to see her facial features more closely, but she wouldnt move her hands). i was amazed that she's so big and alive. people told me in the beginning that i could get an abortion and not feel bad because she was just a bunch of cells, a shrimp-looking creature, just a blob. but now i look at her and i see a little baby. mothers who get abortions early on dont get to see the developed fetus like i did, so they dont think they're killing a human being.

reply from:GodsLaw4Us2Live

I thought you may have said you were 4 or 5 months along. If so, the baby looks like a newborn, only smaller. Her lungs probably are not developed enough for the baby to survive outside the womb. Other internal organs need to develop to full functioning. During my wife's past pregnancies the hospital has given us books showing the child's development each month. Each month shows an actual picture of the unborn child at that stage and tells about the fetal development. If your hospital did not provide you with this information a library probably could (or the internet).

reply from:nancyu

I would help her prepare to be a mom, and I would prepare to be a grandma. OH NO!! You make buying baby things sound so HORRIFYING!!I didn't give up my life for my children, I wouldn't give my life up for my grandchildren either.

Is that why you're so bitter? You shouldn't have done that. It seems you've taken too much on yourself. Try not to be so controlling honey.

reply from:nancyu

Have you made that decision Bernie? You know RML, I started my family at the ripe old age of 27 (almost 28) I was married. We were making plenty of money. I did everything right. I made sure I didn't get pregnant until we were "ready" and planned everything carefully. So how did I end up with the "crappy" life that you think I had? Because we ALL have good days, and we ALL have bad days. That's why. Why are you trying so hard to scare women out of parenthood, when you know darned well they are going to be just fine. Having babies is a natural part of life. There's nothing scary, or terrible about it. It's people like you who exaggerate everything to further your pro-planned parenthood agenda.

reply from:nancyu

It isn't selfish to raise your own children if your capable. And there's no reason Bernie isn't capable. What's with you high and mighties who think you need a perfect life (like yours sacasm) to bring up a child?

reply from:LiberalChiRo

It isn't selfish to raise your own children if your capable. And there's no reason Bernie isn't capable. What's with you high and mighties who think you need a perfect life (like yours sacasm) to bring up a child?My life certainly wasn't perfect, but I was far from impovershed. I see TOO MANY children who are struggling in school because of poverty. Absolutely wonderful kids who COULD succeed... if their parents had the time to care for them, weren't dealing and doing drugs, and if they weren't exposed to a rotten culture that doesn't respect authority or hard work. These children are being RUINED, and it is very hard to watch.I would not wish that on any child. These children often end up as criminals or pregnant teens, continuing the cycle and damning another generation to the same fate. Very very few manage to escape this horrible cycle.

reply from:scopia19822

"My life certainly wasn't perfect, but I was far from impovershed. I see TOO MANY children who are struggling in school because of poverty. Absolutely wonderful kids who COULD succeed... if their parents had the time to care for them, weren't dealing and doing drugs, and if they weren't exposed to a rotten culture that doesn't respect authority or hard work. These children are being RUINED, and it is very hard to watch.I would not wish that on any child. These children often end up as criminals or pregnant teens, continuing the cycle and damning another generation to the same fate. Very very few manage to escape this horrible cycle."Liberal are you saying that only the rich are capable of being able to successfuly raise children? My husband and I live in public housing because we fell on economic hard times and more and more people are falling into that category everyday as the economy goes even more into the toilet. I came from an upper middle class family, my husband came from a middle class family. Neither of us knew real poverty until now. We dont have a lot of money, my son wears handme downs and 2nd hand clothes, as do we. I cant afford to buy him a Xbox, but we do the best we can with the resources we have. Not all poor people are druggies and leeches. Those that are drug addicts need rehab. If poor people were not so marginalized and lost all hope maybe they would not turn to drugs to escape reality. If resources were made available to them to help them become self sufficent may be they could break the poverty cycle. In our area more so called "middle class" people are turning food banks to for help. Liberal most people are only a paycheck or two from being "poor". Guess what non poor people can make lousy parents too, my mom was a coke addict when she was pregnant with me, high when she went into labor, how do you think i ended up with my aunt and uncle? Rich people make sucky parents too, concerned more about their accounts, cars and social calendar than there kids. They can afford a nanny to take care of the kids, but I guess that is ok. Rich people abuse their kids, they are just less likely to get caught cause they can hide it more easily and the more money you got the easier that is.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

No, I was not rich. My dad was an E-6 in the military, which means we were upper lower class/lower middle class. If I wanted anything it was always "wait until payday," or "maybe for your birthday". My mother sewed many clothes for me when I was little. But my parents did not ACT like many lower class people act. They behaved properly, talked properly and taught my brother and I proper manners and respect. I honestly never realised money was as tight as it was until I was an adult. Being "poor" is a CULTURE, not just an economic state. Brittany Spears is proof of this; her family may have money now but they're still trailer trash. That is completely different from being from the poor culture. And I know you know what I mean when I say that. Trailer trash. Again, you are not culturally poor. The people I am talking about ARE, and MOST poor fit into that category.I agree that these people should recieve job education. I want to teach them to fish, not just hand them fish I caught. I'll feed them until they know how, but I refuse to hand out fish to people who don't want to learn.If you have to go to a food bank you are not financially in the middle class. You are poor. Culturally you may be higher class, but financially you are not. For the third time, I am not just talking financially, I am talking culturally. If I was lying or clueless, then these students would not be suffering as they are.

reply from:Rosalie

What do you mean? The OP was reminded of yet another option. There's nothing wrong with stating what her options are. There was no pressure, no baby hating, nothing. Seems to me that are simply blinded by your bigotry and hatred towards pro-choicers.

Most women are not stupid and are perfectly aware that the fetus is human.I'm sorry you have such low opinion of women.

reply from:RiverMoonLady

I would help her prepare to be a mom, and I would prepare to be a grandma. OH NO!! You make buying baby things sound so HORRIFYING!!I didn't give up my life for my children, I wouldn't give my life up for my grandchildren either.

Is that why you're so bitter? You shouldn't have done that. It seems you've taken too much on yourself. Try not to be so controlling honey. Hell, no, I'm not bitter! This is what I have been working and waiting for these many years since I first married. I had my children when I was in my early and mid-20s. They have been adults for quite a few years and I am free to do whatever I want. No grandchildren, either, so I am not stuck raising kids or even babysitting! Now is my time to enjoy being with my husband without being interrupted and to do EVERYTHING without having to deal with diaper bags, food-on-the-go, nursing, temper tantrums from tired toddlers, school, homeowork, sports and all the other joys of parenthood. YAY!!!!When parents have ALREADY done their part and raised their own children to some semblance of adulthood, it just doesn't seem fair for their young, unmarried, silly and/or careless progeny to dump their unexpected pregnancies onto mom and dad so that they can go enjoy their youth. If you are truly prolife, you are going to end up doing a lot more parenting until your child is able to do it on their own. If you enjoy that, and your husband doesn't mind being a second-class citizen for another decade or two, go for it.If you are already divorced and not all of your kids are grown, would you REALLY enjoy being a parent and grandparent to the same child or children? I would encourage adoption, and if you think that's selfish, that is your right.

reply from:nancyu

Oh Rosalie, we know you're not stupid. You are aware that the fetus is human...just not legally human, right?

reply from:nancyu

No, I was not rich. My dad was an E-6 in the military, which means we were upper lower class/lower middle class. If I wanted anything it was always "wait until payday," or "maybe for your birthday". My mother sewed many clothes for me when I was little. But my parents did not ACT like many lower class people act. They behaved properly, talked properly and taught my brother and I proper manners and respect. I honestly never realised money was as tight as it was until I was an adult. Being "poor" is a CULTURE, not just an economic state. Brittany Spears is proof of this; her family may have money now but they're still trailer trash. That is completely different from being from the poor culture. And I know you know what I mean when I say that. Trailer trash. Again, you are not culturally poor. The people I am talking about ARE, and MOST poor fit into that category.I agree that these people should recieve job education. I want to teach them to fish, not just hand them fish I caught. I'll feed them until they know how, but I refuse to hand out fish to people who don't want to learn.If you have to go to a food bank you are not financially in the middle class. You are poor. Culturally you may be higher class, but financially you are not. For the third time, I am not just talking financially, I am talking culturally. If I was lying or clueless, then these students would not be suffering as they are.Could you make up your mind Liberal. You just said this:...implying that Bernie is too impoverished to be a good parent. Now you're saying you meant something else by "poor." I don't see any indication that Bernie is a drug addict, do you? So what, exactly, are you trying to say?

reply from:nancyu

I would help her prepare to be a mom, and I would prepare to be a grandma. OH NO!! You make buying baby things sound so HORRIFYING!!I didn't give up my life for my children, I wouldn't give my life up for my grandchildren either.

Is that why you're so bitter? You shouldn't have done that. It seems you've taken too much on yourself. Try not to be so controlling honey. Hell, no, I'm not bitter! This is what I have been working and waiting for these many years since I first married. I had my children when I was in my early and mid-20s. They have been adults for quite a few years and I am free to do whatever I want. No grandchildren, either, so I am not stuck raising kids or even babysitting! Now is my time to enjoy being with my husband without being interrupted and to do EVERYTHING without having to deal with diaper bags, food-on-the-go, nursing, temper tantrums from tired toddlers, school, homeowork, sports and all the other joys of parenthood. YAY!!!!When parents have ALREADY done their part and raised their own children to some semblance of adulthood, it just doesn't seem fair for their young, unmarried, silly and/or careless progeny to dump their unexpected pregnancies onto mom and dad so that they can go enjoy their youth. If you are truly prolife, you are going to end up doing a lot more parenting until your child is able to do it on their own. If you enjoy that, and your husband doesn't mind being a second-class citizen for another decade or two, go for it.If you are already divorced and not all of your kids are grown, would you REALLY enjoy being a parent and grandparent to the same child or children? I would encourage adoption, and if you think that's selfish, that is your right.You are so sweet to give me permission to think; but it's not necessary. I would have said this anyway: Yes, I think that is selfish. Not only do I think that is selfish, that IS selfish.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

No, I was not rich. My dad was an E-6 in the military, which means we were upper lower class/lower middle class. If I wanted anything it was always "wait until payday," or "maybe for your birthday". My mother sewed many clothes for me when I was little. But my parents did not ACT like many lower class people act. They behaved properly, talked properly and taught my brother and I proper manners and respect. I honestly never realised money was as tight as it was until I was an adult. Being "poor" is a CULTURE, not just an economic state. Brittany Spears is proof of this; her family may have money now but they're still trailer trash. That is completely different from being from the poor culture. And I know you know what I mean when I say that. Trailer trash. Again, you are not culturally poor. The people I am talking about ARE, and MOST poor fit into that category.I agree that these people should recieve job education. I want to teach them to fish, not just hand them fish I caught. I'll feed them until they know how, but I refuse to hand out fish to people who don't want to learn.If you have to go to a food bank you are not financially in the middle class. You are poor. Culturally you may be higher class, but financially you are not. For the third time, I am not just talking financially, I am talking culturally. If I was lying or clueless, then these students would not be suffering as they are.Could you make up your mind Liberal. You just said this:...implying that Bernie is too impoverished to be a good parent. Now you're saying you meant something else by "poor." I don't see any indication that Bernie is a drug addict, do you? So what, exactly, are you trying to say?Who is Bernie? IF she is culturally poor then she will not be a good parent. And cultural poverty is something that can develop over time. I am saying exactly what I said: Firstly, that statistics show young mothers rarely finish their education, give birth to children that often drop out and become criminals/pregnant themselves, that these families rarely rise above the poverty line, B, that I see children living in these conditions every day and it infuriates me, and that C, the OP's child deserves better than that. You may hate what I say but it's true. And I'm going to stand by it, call me whatever you want. I am not saying poor parents can't be good parents. I am however saying that the cold hard facts show it is rare for them to be good and that the children suffer.

reply from:scopia19822

Liberal:"Again, you are not culturally poor. The people I am talking about ARE, and MOST poor fit into that category."That is an unfair offensive stereotype. What you call "culturally poor" transcends all social classes. Rich people can be drug addicts, they can just better suppor their habit and hide it. They can abuse and neglect their children, they can just hide it better because they have money. Domestic violence happens in rich households, the wife is more likely to keep it secret as not to be a social embarassment or she will go talk to a lawyer to get a divorce and take her husband to the cleaners."Liberal:If you have to go to a food bank you are not financially in the middle class. You are poor. Culturally you may be higher class, but financially you are not."Many of these "middle class" people have lost their job and have to go to a food bank for help. Liberal I think you need to come down off your high horse and realize that one day you yourself may need a little help. Poor people can be just as respectful and well mannered as the socialy superior counterparts. Most poor people work, but just cant make enough, most of my neighbors work 2 or 3 jobs and still need assistance and their kids are just as well mannered or even more so than rich kids. I grew up with an uncle who was a doctor and my aunt was an attourney. Both from humble begginings. My uncle came from a family of Irish sheep farmers, my aunt from "impoverished" old Southern aristocracy. Neither of their families had much money, my uncle got a scholarship and worked mulitple jobs to put himself through college and medical school. My aunt got a scholarship to be foreign exchange student in her senior year of high school and went to Ireland, that is when she met my uncle. She also worked her ass off through college and law school. Both did very well for themselves. My dads side of the family would be "dirt poor" My paternal grandfather only has a 6th grade education , my grandmother an 8th grade education. Both had to quite school in order to go work on the family farm. My grandfather is a very intelligent honest hardworking man. His word is his bond and people trust him. My grandmother is pretty much the same and does not turn up her nose at anyone. They managed to raise 4 kids , unfortuantly my dad turned out to be an *****, but my two aunts and his brother are just like my grandparents and they grew up poor too.

reply from:imamommy

I am happy your won't be aborting (killing) your baby. You may want to look into adoption. And if you are depressed, please get/continue to get help, especially after you have your baby, as there will be many changes and babies are alot of work, but oh... so much joy... The best of luck to you and your baby and there may be some difficult times, but just keep doing the best you can.

reply from:imamommy

Very selfish, and you are basically saying that you would have no problem having your grandchild aborted? You talk about all the negatives, but there are SO many positive with children. Murder is murder! Take a look at some of those abortion sites. Maybe you've been talking about adoption in your posts, and not abortion, I don't know..., but I do know that you do seem selfish.

reply from:imamommy

Congratulations on expecting a little girl! We went through so much to have our little boy, including invitro, with success, and he is the biggest joy to my husband and I. We are very fortunate in many ways, financially, I'm a stay-at-home mom, etc., BUT, you and your baby are fortunate if you have the love for her and aren't a selfish mother. It sounds like you are willing to do alot for her, including giving her life and a chance. As far as abortions... please help educate yourself and your famly... a baby (or some call it a fetus) has a heart beat at six weeks. Most mothers don't know they are pregnant until a few weeks along, and by then, they are no longer "just cells", they have little finger and toes... and all of us humand are just cells... so think about that... is it okay to kill all of us that are living? Because, your baby is living, from conception until death... And, maybe send them to some abortion sites, because it is very sad seeing those little innocent babies and how they are murdered. John McCain and Sara Palin should have won and turned abortion off.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

When you teach, when you see these children suffering every single day from culturally impovershed lives, then you can tell me I'm being "unfair". Until then, listen to someone who just might have a clue about what they're saying. Until then, I'll say over and over that it is the parents of these kids that are being unfair, of dooming their children to a life of poverty and crime. Gods; I know of one student who is no only poor, but his mother uses drugs in the home daily, shooting up and telling her son she has "diabetes". He comes to school exhausted from the parties she has all night long. And guess what? It doesn't count as child abuse, because she provides him with the minimum needs. You'd be shocked to learn how little a parent is required to provide for their child. My mom once asked him what he had for dinner, and he said he boiled a hot dog. Shocked, she asked if that was all he had, and he covered it up by saying "Oh no! I had three hotdogs!" This child has been trained to hide his situation from everyone. He is just ONE example of more than a dozen I could talk about, and that's just this year. All are from poor homes. So again, tell me how unfair I'm being? You talk about abortion and you only talk about the few women who abort and regret it as if they are the majority. Well here, I am talking about a real majority, a population of impovershed children who are suffering... and you are trying to say I'm being unfair!? Listen to yourself!!

reply from:Cecilia

What does "culturally poor" mean? Lack of culture? If you know a situation where mother is using drugs "shooting up" in child's presence you are obliged under law to report to children's services. Is there a case opened on this child? if no then you need to remember what mandatory reporting laws are, if you have reported and nothing happened, then you need to do it again and again. children's services are staffed by people who can be incompetent so you need to stay on top if it. Report today!

reply from:sweet

that is the BEST decision you could make as a mother...FIRST keep your baby...that's BETTER than killing him/her or giving him/her away! only God knows the future! once you are pregnant YOU are a mother...adoption is not the best option for a child...the best option is what you are doing...carrying the baby to term and keeping the baby.

reply from:Cecilia

that is the BEST decision you could make as a mother...FIRST keep your baby...that's BETTER than killing him/her or giving him/her away! only God knows the future! once you are pregnant YOU are a mother...adoption is not the best option for a child...the best option is what you are doing...carrying the baby to term and keeping the baby.Wow youa re even against adoption. Reality is not part of your psyche.

reply from:Rosalie

Of course a fetus is human. I have never said otherwise.Stop lying, nancyu.

reply from:imamommy

In reply to LiberalChiRo...Are you pro-life or pro-choice? It's not the babies fault... if abortion was illegal, there would be alot less abortions, and alot less careless women, and men, and not just the poor mothers and fathers, but the rich as well, those who already have the "perfect family" can afford more children, but "whoops" came along, and they get an abortion, or it's just not the right time, even though I'd be a great parenet and can afford it now. Do you know what abortion is? Call it what you want... Just because it's in the woman's body shouldn't give her 100% right to murder... many men would take their child in, but they don't even know about it, as the woman just goes and gets an abortion... many use it as birth control as well. People are locked up for abusing animals... something is wrong here... babies get their limbs torn off piece by piece, then their skull crushed, or they are burned with a saline solution, or other methods... this is cruel and this is MURDER... This woman may not be rich financially, but she is rich in her heart. If she wants to give it a chance and take a chance on motherhood, in her situatin, I commend her... if it doesn't work out, she can always still consider adoption. I think if she choose abortioin by the way she sounds in her writings, she would deeply regret it. There are also online classes and so many things out there to get her feet with a newborn. All you pro-choice people... please quit murdering... quit taking the easy way out.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

I am pro-life. You do not have to be rich to be perfect, you can be poor and perfect, but the facts are that poor children suffer. If I were to have become pregnant in college I would not have kept that child, I would have given him/her up because I value their life and MY life too much to ruin both.Poor children suffer. How can anyone be ok with that, and even encourage teens to keep their accidental pregnancies? I just can't fathom it. You want to save the child so bad, so why not give it the absolute best life it can live? One of my best friends was adopted for just those reasons. His life is so much better than it would have been; his birth parents are losers.Some people might make it, but the cold hard truth is that most do not. They are born into poverty and stay there.

reply from:imamommy

It just sounded like you were pro-choice too. I think adoption is good too, but not abortion... we looked into adoption and now it's great, as they have "open" adoption. Many loving, stable coupls are looking for babies, which can be hard to come by, believe it or not, and such a waste that babies are murdered... Some teens can make it though, and with supportive parents and friends and a strong will, they can. Also, to the person who wrote about a man wanting her with another man's child. Not all people are selfish. I had no children and dated men with children and you can love them near the same if not like your own. We now do have our own child and I wouldn't change it for the world.

reply from:nancyu

Of course a fetus is human. I have never said otherwise.Stop lying, nancyu.I didn't lie. You pro aborts speak with a forked tongue. An unborn child is a person, but the Constitution supports their killing, you say, because they are not "legally" persons. Either an unborn child is a person, or an unborn child is not a person. Make up your mind.If the child is a person, it is illegal to murder the child, and Roe Vs Wade is nothing but a soggy piece of toilet paper about to be flushed away with the crap that's in it.

reply from:nancyu

No, I was not rich. My dad was an E-6 in the military, which means we were upper lower class/lower middle class. If I wanted anything it was always "wait until payday," or "maybe for your birthday". My mother sewed many clothes for me when I was little. But my parents did not ACT like many lower class people act. They behaved properly, talked properly and taught my brother and I proper manners and respect. I honestly never realised money was as tight as it was until I was an adult. Being "poor" is a CULTURE, not just an economic state. Brittany Spears is proof of this; her family may have money now but they're still trailer trash. That is completely different from being from the poor culture. And I know you know what I mean when I say that. Trailer trash. Again, you are not culturally poor. The people I am talking about ARE, and MOST poor fit into that category.I agree that these people should recieve job education. I want to teach them to fish, not just hand them fish I caught. I'll feed them until they know how, but I refuse to hand out fish to people who don't want to learn.If you have to go to a food bank you are not financially in the middle class. You are poor. Culturally you may be higher class, but financially you are not. For the third time, I am not just talking financially, I am talking culturally. If I was lying or clueless, then these students would not be suffering as they are.Could you make up your mind Liberal. You just said this:...implying that Bernie is too impoverished to be a good parent. Now you're saying you meant something else by "poor." I don't see any indication that Bernie is a drug addict, do you? So what, exactly, are you trying to say?Who is Bernie? IF she is culturally poor then she will not be a good parent. And cultural poverty is something that can develop over time. I am saying exactly what I said: Firstly, that statistics show young mothers rarely finish their education, give birth to children that often drop out and become criminals/pregnant themselves, that these families rarely rise above the poverty line, B, that I see children living in these conditions every day and it infuriates me, and that C, the OP's child deserves better than that. You may hate what I say but it's true. And I'm going to stand by it, call me whatever you want. I am not saying poor parents can't be good parents. I am however saying that the cold hard facts show it is rare for them to be good and that the children suffer.You're a snob.

reply from:GodsLaw4Us2Live

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<You don't know the difference between being "human" and being a "person," do you?Is that like when the Supreme Court ruled a negro was 3/5 person? Should we try to figure out what in the h*ll they were talking about? Should we have nine people telling us what a person is?A human being and a person are the same thing. A human being or person exists from conception until natural death. Degree of sentience is not a factor, a growing child will gain additional sentience as he/she goes along.

reply from:nancyu

Do you?A: There is no difference.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

It just sounded like you were pro-choice too. I think adoption is good too, but not abortion... we looked into adoption and now it's great, as they have "open" adoption. Many loving, stable coupls are looking for babies, which can be hard to come by, believe it or not, and such a waste that babies are murdered... Some teens can make it though, and with supportive parents and friends and a strong will, they can. Also, to the person who wrote about a man wanting her with another man's child. Not all people are selfish. I had no children and dated men with children and you can love them near the same if not like your own. We now do have our own child and I wouldn't change it for the world.That's a wonderful story

reply from:LiberalChiRo

I'd rather be a snob with a job than trailer trash, pregnant and living on welfare, using my money to buy alcohol instead of clothes for my child, because they ruined my chances for a higher education.

reply from:Bernie18

i do sit and think about how much this baby will cost and it does worry me. i'm in the process of applying for welfare, and no, not for alcohol. But my dad is very supportive and i'm moving in with him soon. Sometimes i feel guilty that i put this financial burden on my dad, who already has 3 other kids, my sisters and brother, who are under eighteen, that he has to take care of. So I'm going to use my welfare to take some of that burden off of him. I'm also going back to college.

reply from:imamommy

i do sit and think about how much this baby will cost and it does worry me. i'm in the process of applying for welfare, and no, not for alcohol. But my dad is very supportive and i'm moving in with him soon. Sometimes i feel guilty that i put this financial burden on my dad, who already has 3 other kids, my sisters and brother, who are under eighteen, that he has to take care of. So I'm going to use my welfare to take some of that burden off of him. I'm also going back to college.Bernie... good for you... and to the others, this will be my last post, but let's try and be supportive of Bernie and try and offer her some advice. Some of you are getting into "cat fights" with others on this site and maybe should disconinue that or share each other's email, as I'm sure Bernie came here for some support. Bernie, the VERY best of luck to you and your baby. There will be many tough times, but HANG IN THERE... YOU CAN DO IT!Donna

reply from:Cecilia

Someone please explain what "culturally poor" means? I have never heard that phrase before.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

People who feel like they can live on welfare alone; people who are not sophisticated enough to have dreams for themselves or their children. People who abuse their children. People who disrespect authority. Just think of your typical trailer trash. It's not hard. Culturally poor means these people have no culture of any worth.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

i do sit and think about how much this baby will cost and it does worry me. i'm in the process of applying for welfare, and no, not for alcohol. But my dad is very supportive and i'm moving in with him soon. Sometimes i feel guilty that i put this financial burden on my dad, who already has 3 other kids, my sisters and brother, who are under eighteen, that he has to take care of. So I'm going to use my welfare to take some of that burden off of him. I'm also going back to college.I really hope you make it.

reply from:teddybearhamster

bernie,i completely understand you. i was also a teen mother. it's not easy but you are doing a great thing. if you cannot take care of your little one adoption is a great answer. you are so much more mature and unselfish than i was at 18. good luck to you both. if you need anything or want to talk pm me. you can still go to college and make a good life for yourself and your baby. i am doing that now. please believe me when i say you will not regret chosing life for your child.

reply from:scopia19822

"When you teach, when you see these children suffering every single day from culturally impovershed lives, then you can tell me I'm being "unfair". Until then, listen to someone who just might have a clue about what they're saying. Until then, I'll say over and over that it is the parents of these kids that are being unfair, of dooming their children to a life of poverty and crime. Gods; I know of one student who is no only poor, but his mother uses drugs in the home daily, shooting up and telling her son she has "diabetes". He comes to school exhausted from the parties she has all night long. And guess what? It doesn't count as child abuse, because she provides him with the minimum needs. You'd be shocked to learn how little a parent is required to provide for their child. My mom once asked him what he had for dinner, and he said he boiled a hot dog. Shocked, she asked if that was all he had, and he covered it up by saying "Oh no! I had three hotdogs!" This child has been trained to hide his situation from everyone."Liberal you are a snob. You think because you have a college degree that makes you an expert on children? You have no children, you have no idea what it is really like to be a parent. Guess what my mom did drugs when she was pregnant with me, she went into labor so high on cocaine they had to tie her to the bed until it wore off to keep her from hurting herself when she was withdrawing, my mom came from a "good" upper middle class family. She still does pain pills as far as I know. I grew up among the elite of North Myrtle Beach , SC society and you talk about messed up kids, sure they had everything they wanted materialisticly, but they were among some of the unhappiest kids you would ever meet. Mommy and Daddy cared more about their social calendars, their nice cars , expenisve wardrobes and thier drug habit than their kids. As soon as the kid was born off the the nanny it went, once it started school off to private school or the ones who could afford it boarding school. It was like these kids didnt even exist . These parents would not spend time with their kids or cared what was going on in their lives. So often these kids turned to drugs, sex and other harmful activites. Sure they had nice clothes, nice cars etc, but what they really needed was their parents to be parents. That is neglect. You have sucky parents everywhere and in every social class. The poor parents just cant afford to buy the material things, hire the nanny or ship them off to boarding school. Is a rich person excused from parental responsibilties?He is just ONE example of more than a dozen I could talk about, and that's just this year. All are from poor homes. So again, tell me how unfair I'm being? You talk about abortion and you only talk about the few women who abort and regret it as if they are the majority. Well here, I am talking about a real majority, a population of impovershed children who are suffering... and you are trying to say I'm being unfair!? Listen to yourself!!Of course impoverished children suffer Liberal, rich children suffer too. We have a generation of me 1ster parents who dont give a crap about their kids. Every woman that I have PERSONALLY known to abort have later regretted or felt they had no choice. You are stereotyping ALL poor people as lazy, "culturally poor", druggies, etc and that is offensive and unfair . you dont like it when other use offensive stereotypes, yet here you are doing the same thing. You elitist liberal do gooders most of whom have no children, think you can tell us "poor" folk the correct way to parent and live our lives because you have college degrees and that makes you superior to those who dont. I especially have little respect for public educators, especially the ones just fresh out of college wanting to save the world and they know all their is to know about children. It is not easy to raise a child, no matter what income/social class a person belongs too. You do the best you can with what you got and in the case of us poor folk, if you need assistance or help you ask for it, whether it be from the state or the Church. I have asked my Church a few times for help with food, because my son has to eat. I have to swallow my pride sometimes and do such things. What kind of mother would I be if I didnt swallow my pride?

reply from:nancyu

In another forum, I once came across a pregnant teenager who wanted to keep her child though she knew she could not afford this on her own. She was looking for someone who was willing to adopt BOTH her AND her child. So that she could continue her education until she was stable enough to move out on her own with her child. What does everyone think about this? It was the first time I'd heard of such a thing, but I think it's an amazing idea.I'll bet there are people out there who would be willing to do this, and who are in a position to do so.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

Nancyu, I think that's a very unique idea! It does remind us of the fact that these teens are still just children themselves.

reply from:nancyu

Who is "us"? Do you have a mouse in your pocket? Not all teens are children. So no, it doesn't remind me of any such "fact".

reply from:LiberalChiRo

I have yet to meet a teen in real life in person who was physically and mentally an adult.

reply from:Cecilia

Good gracious, have you issues!!! I do not even know where to start. People who feel like they can live on welfare alone, do you mean like the blind, veterans, people mentally ill, physically handicapped? "People who are not sophisticated enough to have dreams" have you met anyone like this? Or are they just disenfranchised and unempowered and no self esteem? People who abuse their children aren't "culturally poor" they are just aholes. Do rich people abuse children? "Disrespect authority" you sound like you would follow authority to whatever end and not use brain. You have mentioned that you teach, do you think children who do not respect you are "culturally poor"?You do sound very snobbish when you stereotype people like this. Not someone to go to for help because you turn your nose up at people who have no culture of any worth by your standards and limited understanding of others.

reply from:scopia19822

Good gracious, have you issues!!! I do not even know where to start. People who feel like they can live on welfare alone, do you mean like the blind, veterans, people mentally ill, physically handicapped? "People who are not sophisticated enough to have dreams" have you met anyone like this? Or are they just disenfranchised and unempowered and no self esteem? People who abuse their children aren't "culturally poor" they are just aholes. Do rich people abuse children? "Disrespect authority" you sound like you would follow authority to whatever end and not use brain. You have mentioned that you teach, do you think children who do not respect you are "culturally poor"?You do sound very snobbish when you stereotype people like this. Not someone to go to for help because you turn your nose up at people who have no culture of any worth by your standards and limited understanding of others.OMG ! OMG! I cannot believe that I agree with Cecilia completly!! Liberal is a fresh out of college liberal do gooder who think she knows all their is to know about life and raising children, even though she has none herself. If people like her are what are replacing the better public educators who are retiring, I am going to take my son and homeschool him. I guess since the rich have money and can hire a nanny that absolves them of any responsibilties as parents. So what should we do Liberal, rip the baby of a poor woman out its mothers arms at birth? Force them to get sterilized? Hey why not abort a few poor babies? Liberals say they care about the poor, they want to help the poor, when in reality what they want to so is eliminate the poor. No more poor people, no more problems!

reply from:nancyu

She's neither. She's pro her choice.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

She's neither. She's pro her choice.My choice? I've never had to make a choice about pregnancy, since I've never been pregnant.

reply from:nancyu

I think if you met either of my teens you would no longer be able to say this truthfully. (I'm bragging a little)I think I saw you mention that you are from Florida. My brother lives there and works at SeaWorld. He told me some stories of the teens he works with sometimes. They seem pretty immature. So maybe the source of our disagreement is where we live. Could the easier lifestyle there be creating some lazy and irresponsible people?

reply from:RiverMoonLady

I think if you met either of my teens you would no longer be able to say this truthfully. (I'm bragging a little)I think I saw you mention that you are from Florida. My brother lives there and works at SeaWorld. He told me some stories of the teens he works with sometimes. They seem pretty immature. So maybe the source of our disagreement is where we live. Could the easier lifestyle there be creating some lazy and irresponsible people?I certainly hope not! My younger son just moved to Florida to find work!! (He's almost 27 and is an electrician and construction worker.)He said he was just tired of Winter . . . .

reply from:scopia19822

"My choice? I've never had to make a choice about pregnancy, since I've never been pregnant'You are very fortunate. I hope you never are faced with an unwanted child who will "ruin" your life.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

I would give it up for adoption so that wouldn't happen.Swish!

reply from:LiberalChiRo

I think if you met either of my teens you would no longer be able to say this truthfully. (I'm bragging a little)I think I saw you mention that you are from Florida. My brother lives there and works at SeaWorld. He told me some stories of the teens he works with sometimes. They seem pretty immature. So maybe the source of our disagreement is where we live. Could the easier lifestyle there be creating some lazy and irresponsible people?It's impossible for a teen to physically be an adult, but that was a bit of a trap. Certainly I'm sure that somewhere out there, emotionally mature teens exist, and I think that's a little sad since I think we push adulthood on kids too soon. Now I'm not saying they shouldn't be responsible, just that I hate the idea that all teens should be ready for a child at 16 or 17. As for where I live, I'm really more from New York. I've only "lived" in Florida since May.

reply from:scopia19822

"I would give it up for adoption so that wouldn't happen.Swish!"That would be your choice, however you dont have a right to tell others to put there kids up for adoption. BTW you never did answer me when I asked you for your solution about "poor" parents. Do you think that a child of a poor women should be ripped from there mothers arms at birth simply because she is poor? Should other poor people have their kids taken from them and adopted out to rich people? Should we mandate that the poor be sterilized?

reply from:nancyu

I think if you met either of my teens you would no longer be able to say this truthfully. (I'm bragging a little)I think I saw you mention that you are from Florida. My brother lives there and works at SeaWorld. He told me some stories of the teens he works with sometimes. They seem pretty immature. So maybe the source of our disagreement is where we live. Could the easier lifestyle there be creating some lazy and irresponsible people?It's impossible for a teen to physically be an adult, but that was a bit of a trap. Certainly I'm sure that somewhere out there, emotionally mature teens exist, and I think that's a little sad since I think we push adulthood on kids too soon. Now I'm not saying they shouldn't be responsible, just that I hate the idea that all teens should be ready for a child at 16 or 17. As for where I live, I'm really more from New York. I've only "lived" in Florida since May.Unfortunately many 16 and 17 year olds think they are mature enough to engage in sex. If they are, then they had better be emotionally mature enough, and ready to be a parent.

reply from:carolemarie

I was pregnant as a teenager and I was certainly not capable of raising a child. can't think of a worse disaster. Teenager and baby = poverty, possible child abuse, neglect. Real love is making the best choice for the baby. Killing it is bad. Adoption is great!

reply from:teddybearhamster

many teens are not mature enough to raise a child. some are but the answer is never murder.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

I think a lot more emphasis needs to be placed once again on teaching kids abstinence. YES birth control is important but there is a time and a place for sex, and highschool isn't it.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

I mean, right now our nation has the mindset of "they're going to do it anyway, so let's give them clean needles to shoot up with". People just can't see it.

reply from:teddybearhamster

that's the problem that i would have with handing my children a box of condoms or bc pills. i wouldn't want to give them the 'ok' to go have sex.

reply from:scopia19822

"I was pregnant as a teenager and I was certainly not capable of raising a child. can't think of a worse disaster. Teenager and baby = poverty, possible child abuse, neglect.Real love is making the best choice for the baby. Killing it is bad. Adoption is great!"It depends on the girls support network from family and friends as well as money. It can be done being a teen mom, but that entails them growing up and growing up fast. If teens are not mature enough to be a mom as many prochoicers on here have stated as well, what makes them think that teens are mature enough to have sex?

reply from:nancyu

I think the most important thing to teach young people is self respect, and respect for others. The rest falls into place when they've got this as a foundation.You can't build anything without a good foundation. You can't teach abstinence to someone who has no self respect, or respect for others (including unborn children.) They should be taught to respect themselves enough to know they can say "no" to sex if they don't feel ready, They should be taught to respect their partner, who also might not feel ready. And they should be taught to respect a child that they could be creating.If they realize that the child they may create by their actions is actually a human being, a person, they are more likely to be more careful, and more likely to be abstinent altogether, until they are fully ready to be responsible parents.

reply from:RiverMoonLady

i do sit and think about how much this baby will cost and it does worry me. i'm in the process of applying for welfare, and no, not for alcohol. But my dad is very supportive and i'm moving in with him soon. Sometimes i feel guilty that i put this financial burden on my dad, who already has 3 other kids, my sisters and brother, who are under eighteen, that he has to take care of. So I'm going to use my welfare to take some of that burden off of him. I'm also going back to college.Bernie, I really hope you sit down with a financial counselor from the college you plan to attend, as well as your welfare caseworker and your father. It may not be possible to collect welfare if you live with your father, unless he is low-income. And who would care for your child while you go to classes? Who will pay for your college education? You want to be a mother and keep your baby, but you don't seem to have a real grasp of the problems you will be facing.Yes, you are pregnant with an adorable little girl and I'm sure you're excited about being a mommy, but at the tender age of 18, you have little chance of being able to really parent her. It sounds like you don't even have the help of the father. You can sue him for child support, but unless he has a good income, you won't get much from him.You have a golden opportunity to give an amazing gift to a childless couple. When you are older and married and settled, you can have more children. There are so many kinds of adoptions now, including open adoptions in which you are able to be in contact with the adoptive parents and watch your daughter grow up.Please consider this loving act for your child's sake. She deserves the best you can give her, and you are just not ready yet.

reply from:Bernie18

i do sit and think about how much this baby will cost and it does worry me. i'm in the process of applying for welfare, and no, not for alcohol. But my dad is very supportive and i'm moving in with him soon. Sometimes i feel guilty that i put this financial burden on my dad, who already has 3 other kids, my sisters and brother, who are under eighteen, that he has to take care of. So I'm going to use my welfare to take some of that burden off of him. I'm also going back to college.Bernie, I really hope you sit down with a financial counselor from the college you plan to attend, as well as your welfare caseworker and your father. It may not be possible to collect welfare if you live with your father, unless he is low-income. And who would care for your child while you go to classes? Who will pay for your college education? You want to be a mother and keep your baby, but you don't seem to have a real grasp of the problems you will be facing.Yes, you are pregnant with an adorable little girl and I'm sure you're excited about being a mommy, but at the tender age of 18, you have little chance of being able to really parent her. It sounds like you don't even have the help of the father. You can sue him for child support, but unless he has a good income, you won't get much from him.You have a golden opportunity to give an amazing gift to a childless couple. When you are older and married and settled, you can have more children. There are so many kinds of adoptions now, including open adoptions in which you are able to be in contact with the adoptive parents and watch your daughter grow up.Please consider this loving act for your child's sake. She deserves the best you can give her, and you are just not ready yet.You make a good point RiverMoonLady. I know all of this that you're telling me. I know i'm facing some real challenges ahead. I think about it all the time. Sometimes i think that the best option really is adoption, both for me and the baby. But then sometimes i wonder, maybe, just maybe i can make it. Maybe i'll be a great mother, and i'll take great care of her, and it might be hard, but maybe i can do it. I dont know, i'm really torn.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

Wonderful post! I feel that's how I was raised!

reply from:nancyu

i do sit and think about how much this baby will cost and it does worry me. i'm in the process of applying for welfare, and no, not for alcohol. But my dad is very supportive and i'm moving in with him soon. Sometimes i feel guilty that i put this financial burden on my dad, who already has 3 other kids, my sisters and brother, who are under eighteen, that he has to take care of. So I'm going to use my welfare to take some of that burden off of him. I'm also going back to college.Bernie, I really hope you sit down with a financial counselor from the college you plan to attend, as well as your welfare caseworker and your father. It may not be possible to collect welfare if you live with your father, unless he is low-income. And who would care for your child while you go to classes? Who will pay for your college education? You want to be a mother and keep your baby, but you don't seem to have a real grasp of the problems you will be facing.Yes, you are pregnant with an adorable little girl and I'm sure you're excited about being a mommy, but at the tender age of 18, you have little chance of being able to really parent her. It sounds like you don't even have the help of the father. You can sue him for child support, but unless he has a good income, you won't get much from him.You have a golden opportunity to give an amazing gift to a childless couple. When you are older and married and settled, you can have more children. There are so many kinds of adoptions now, including open adoptions in which you are able to be in contact with the adoptive parents and watch your daughter grow up.Please consider this loving act for your child's sake. She deserves the best you can give her, and you are just not ready yet.You make a good point RiverMoonLady. I know all of this that you're telling me. I know i'm facing some real challenges ahead. I think about it all the time. Sometimes i think that the best option really is adoption, both for me and the baby. But then sometimes i wonder, maybe, just maybe i can make it. Maybe i'll be a great mother, and i'll take great care of her, and it might be hard, but maybe i can do it. I dont know, i'm really torn.I sorely disagree with you here RiverMoonLady. You are very strong and persuasive, and you might just convince Bernie to do something she will forever regret.Bernie you should be the one to raise your own child if you are at all capable. You said you have your father to help support you until you are on your feet. He's your father, I'm sure he loves you and his grandchild enough to let you take advantage a little. You also strike me as someone who won't take advantage for any longer than is absolutely necessary.I am the youngest of nine children, my mother always said that if you wait until you can afford children, you probably will never have any. You will make it. Have faith in yourself and your family and friends who will help to support you the moment they set eyes on your new baby.You're going to be GREAT mom!

reply from:Cecilia

Good gracious, have you issues!!! I do not even know where to start. People who feel like they can live on welfare alone, do you mean like the blind, veterans, people mentally ill, physically handicapped? "People who are not sophisticated enough to have dreams" have you met anyone like this? Or are they just disenfranchised and unempowered and no self esteem? People who abuse their children aren't "culturally poor" they are just aholes. Do rich people abuse children? "Disrespect authority" you sound like you would follow authority to whatever end and not use brain. You have mentioned that you teach, do you think children who do not respect you are "culturally poor"?You do sound very snobbish when you stereotype people like this. Not someone to go to for help because you turn your nose up at people who have no culture of any worth by your standards and limited understanding of others.OMG ! OMG! I cannot believe that I agree with Cecilia completly!! Liberal is a fresh out of college liberal do gooder who think she knows all their is to know about life and raising children, even though she has none herself. If people like her are what are replacing the better public educators who are retiring, I am going to take my son and homeschool him. I guess since the rich have money and can hire a nanny that absolves them of any responsibilties as parents. So what should we do Liberal, rip the baby of a poor woman out its mothers arms at birth? Force them to get sterilized? Hey why not abort a few poor babies? Liberals say they care about the poor, they want to help the poor, when in reality what they want to so is eliminate the poor. No more poor people, no more problems!Have a beer: She will not answer your question because you dare call her what she is. She will not respond to me because it hurts her to know that she is wrong. I hope she grows soon.Life is not lolly strolls down Happy lane LCR where everyone rich is happy and poor are "culturally impoverished" bad people on welfare!

reply from:Cecilia

i do sit and think about how much this baby will cost and it does worry me. i'm in the process of applying for welfare, and no, not for alcohol. But my dad is very supportive and i'm moving in with him soon. Sometimes i feel guilty that i put this financial burden on my dad, who already has 3 other kids, my sisters and brother, who are under eighteen, that he has to take care of. So I'm going to use my welfare to take some of that burden off of him. I'm also going back to college.Bernie, I really hope you sit down with a financial counselor from the college you plan to attend, as well as your welfare caseworker and your father. It may not be possible to collect welfare if you live with your father, unless he is low-income. And who would care for your child while you go to classes? Who will pay for your college education? You want to be a mother and keep your baby, but you don't seem to have a real grasp of the problems you will be facing.Yes, you are pregnant with an adorable little girl and I'm sure you're excited about being a mommy, but at the tender age of 18, you have little chance of being able to really parent her. It sounds like you don't even have the help of the father. You can sue him for child support, but unless he has a good income, you won't get much from him.You have a golden opportunity to give an amazing gift to a childless couple. When you are older and married and settled, you can have more children. There are so many kinds of adoptions now, including open adoptions in which you are able to be in contact with the adoptive parents and watch your daughter grow up.Please consider this loving act for your child's sake. She deserves the best you can give her, and you are just not ready yet.You make a good point RiverMoonLady. I know all of this that you're telling me. I know i'm facing some real challenges ahead. I think about it all the time. Sometimes i think that the best option really is adoption, both for me and the baby. But then sometimes i wonder, maybe, just maybe i can make it. Maybe i'll be a great mother, and i'll take great care of her, and it might be hard, but maybe i can do it. I dont know, i'm really torn.I sorely disagree with you here RiverMoonLady. You are very strong and persuasive, and you might just convince Bernie to do something she will forever regret.Bernie you should be the one to raise your own child if you are at all capable. You said you have your father to help support you until you are on your feet. He's your father, I'm sure he loves you and his grandchild enough to let you take advantage a little. You also strike me as someone who won't take advantage for any longer than is absolutely necessary.I am the youngest of nine children, my mother always said that if you wait until you can afford children, you probably will never have any. You will make it. Have faith in yourself and your family and friends who will help to support you the moment they set eyes on your new baby.You're going to be GREAT mom!Why are you against adoption?

reply from:4given

Because she is anti-women.She wants them tied to the home, squirting out babies and dependent on men.That is untrue. I think you know that.

reply from:4given

I completely agree. I have to add that children that aren't respected(ie. met with punishment or abuse when they don't agree-not consequences- but extreme measure)by their parents are IMO less likely to feel that their "no" is respected by others whether it comes to sex or not.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

Actually I just refuse to answer the questions of people who are so jealous of success they act like complete fools. Ha! Also, I've been ignoring any of your posts that insult me. Thirdly, I inadvertently answered all of your questions in another post I made in a different topic; I think I was replying to RiverMoon. You'll have to go look for it, but that's probably too much work for you. The culturally poor are lazy and expect handouts from everyone, and I assume that means you'd want to be spoon-fed any relevant information pertaining to my opinions on this topic.By the way in case you missed it, I did mention that being culturally poor does not necessarily have anything to do with your income...

reply from:4given

Because she is anti-women.She wants them tied to the home, squirting out babies and dependent on men.That is untrue. I think you know that.Hardly.Otherwise why would she be against adoption?If there is a chance that someone else can give a child a better life, why wouldn't you take that chance?Hardly seems fair on the child.You have to agree that your statements about her wanting women "tied to the home, squirting out babies and dependent on men" is false. She is not against adoption. She can speak for herself I know. She has been an encouragment to me as we have been in a long process in regard to the adoption of our foster son. I have to say that any ideas she shared to Bernie about her willingness to parent her child as opposed to adopting it out, means that she has considered (based on the poster's indications) the mother first. Would you agree that adoption is a hard choice and not always the best for mom or baby? Each person/situation is different. Bernie seems to have a desire to parent. Both of them will and can get through this. Her immediate situation- financial etc. can and will improve. This could be her only biological child.

reply from:4given

Then shut up and let her speak.Sure. I will not sit as you attempt to disparage any legitemate poster by petty and slanderous attacks. Especially not anyone I consider to be a friend. This is a game to you. That is not the case with many of the other posters that actually have a desire to grow and learn and change the world around them.

reply from:nancyu

i do sit and think about how much this baby will cost and it does worry me. i'm in the process of applying for welfare, and no, not for alcohol. But my dad is very supportive and i'm moving in with him soon. Sometimes i feel guilty that i put this financial burden on my dad, who already has 3 other kids, my sisters and brother, who are under eighteen, that he has to take care of. So I'm going to use my welfare to take some of that burden off of him. I'm also going back to college.Bernie, I really hope you sit down with a financial counselor from the college you plan to attend, as well as your welfare caseworker and your father. It may not be possible to collect welfare if you live with your father, unless he is low-income. And who would care for your child while you go to classes? Who will pay for your college education? You want to be a mother and keep your baby, but you don't seem to have a real grasp of the problems you will be facing.Yes, you are pregnant with an adorable little girl and I'm sure you're excited about being a mommy, but at the tender age of 18, you have little chance of being able to really parent her. It sounds like you don't even have the help of the father. You can sue him for child support, but unless he has a good income, you won't get much from him.You have a golden opportunity to give an amazing gift to a childless couple. When you are older and married and settled, you can have more children. There are so many kinds of adoptions now, including open adoptions in which you are able to be in contact with the adoptive parents and watch your daughter grow up.Please consider this loving act for your child's sake. She deserves the best you can give her, and you are just not ready yet.You make a good point RiverMoonLady. I know all of this that you're telling me. I know i'm facing some real challenges ahead. I think about it all the time. Sometimes i think that the best option really is adoption, both for me and the baby. But then sometimes i wonder, maybe, just maybe i can make it. Maybe i'll be a great mother, and i'll take great care of her, and it might be hard, but maybe i can do it. I dont know, i'm really torn.I sorely disagree with you here RiverMoonLady. You are very strong and persuasive, and you might just convince Bernie to do something she will forever regret.Bernie you should be the one to raise your own child if you are at all capable. You said you have your father to help support you until you are on your feet. He's your father, I'm sure he loves you and his grandchild enough to let you take advantage a little. You also strike me as someone who won't take advantage for any longer than is absolutely necessary.I am the youngest of nine children, my mother always said that if you wait until you can afford children, you probably will never have any. You will make it. Have faith in yourself and your family and friends who will help to support you the moment they set eyes on your new baby.You're going to be GREAT mom!Why are you against adoption?I'm not at all against adoption when it is really necessary. I don't think everyone should automatically ditch their children because they think it might be difficult. Bernie strikes me as a responsible person. She is 18, not 13, she's not an alcoholic or a drug addict. She plans to go to college, and it's not impossible to do while raising a child, especially with plenty of family support.I think she can do this. And if she can, she should. And the baby's father should help.

reply from:nancyu

Then shut up and let her speak.Sure. I will not sit as you attempt to disparage any legitemate poster by petty and slanderous attacks. Especially not anyone I consider to be a friend. This is a game to you. That is not the case with many of the other posters that actually have a desire to grow and learn and change the world around them.Thank you 4given, you can speak for me anytime. Vexing, you shouldn't be telling anyone to "shut up."

reply from:Rosalie

i do sit and think about how much this baby will cost and it does worry me. i'm in the process of applying for welfare, and no, not for alcohol. But my dad is very supportive and i'm moving in with him soon. Sometimes i feel guilty that i put this financial burden on my dad, who already has 3 other kids, my sisters and brother, who are under eighteen, that he has to take care of. So I'm going to use my welfare to take some of that burden off of him. I'm also going back to college.Good luck to you. I hope you can make it.

reply from:Rosalie

It's not only about finances. It's about the CAPACITY to take care of a child. If you are not capable of doing that, for any reason, then abortion or adoption are way better choices than being a really bad parent. The quality of life matters to me.

reply from:Rosalie

I wouldn't go as far as to say that. I know quite a few girls who got pregnant around this age, decided to keep the child and are wonderful mothers. They set no precedent, of course, this is really individual. These women were extremely headstrong, mature beyond their years and very intelligent. And they made it, they are amazing moms. I just wouldn't generalize so much. 18 is not THAT young. Some 18 year-old people do have many things sorted out in their head and while it isn't exactly an ideal situation, approaching them with this kind of attitude won't help her much. It's up to her and yes, she should know how difficult it will be. It will be difficult either way. I just hope that she'll sort it out so in a few years, she will be able to look back and say-- Yes, I've made the right choice.

reply from:scopia19822

"Actually I just refuse to answer the questions of people who are so jealous of success they act like complete fools. Ha! Also, I've been ignoring any of your posts that insult me. Thirdly, I inadvertently answered all of your questions in another post I made in a different topic; I think I was replying to RiverMoon. You'll have to go look for it, but that's probably too much work for you. The culturally poor are lazy and expect handouts from everyone, and I assume that means you'd want to be spoon-fed any relevant information pertaining to my opinions on this topic. By the way in case you missed it, I did mention that being culturally poor does not necessarily have anything to do with your income... "Jealous of your success Liberal? I do not think so, your posts sounds like an immature high school kid. Are you going to go eat some worms next? I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth as the old saying goes. You think because you are a college graduate that makes you better than poor people? Guess what Liberal, my mother has a bachelors degree in Criminal Justice with a minor in psycology (sp) and you know what kind of job she has? She works at the BP station down the road from her house for 7.50 an hour because that was all she could find. I ask you simple questions about whether or not we should force poor people to surrender their chidren for adoption and sterilized since you claim the majority of them are not fit to be parents. Yes orno is all you had to answer. But I called you out for what you really are a snob elitist who knows nothing 1st hand about raising kids. And you did keep saying that being "culterally poor" and income were linked together. I even have Cecila agreeing with me ...

reply from:scopia19822

You are choosing life for your baby that is what is most important. However RML brought up the point of who would watch your child while you worked and went to school. In most states you can get daycare assistance if you work or go to school. In some cases the state will pay all of the daycare costs. If you truly feel adoption is what would be best for you and your baby, then choose adoption, but it sounds like you want to parent your child yourself. Do not let anyone guilt trip you into thinking you cannot do it, also with adoption in most states you also have to have the consent of the father. I urge you to parent your child because it seems like you are setting some goals and you can do it. It will not be easy, you will have to grow up but it can be done. Thier are resources out there to help you parent your child.

reply from:Bernie18

i do sit and think about how much this baby will cost and it does worry me. i'm in the process of applying for welfare, and no, not for alcohol. But my dad is very supportive and i'm moving in with him soon. Sometimes i feel guilty that i put this financial burden on my dad, who already has 3 other kids, my sisters and brother, who are under eighteen, that he has to take care of. So I'm going to use my welfare to take some of that burden off of him. I'm also going back to college.Bernie, I really hope you sit down with a financial counselor from the college you plan to attend, as well as your welfare caseworker and your father. It may not be possible to collect welfare if you live with your father, unless he is low-income. And who would care for your child while you go to classes? Who will pay for your college education? You want to be a mother and keep your baby, but you don't seem to have a real grasp of the problems you will be facing.Yes, you are pregnant with an adorable little girl and I'm sure you're excited about being a mommy, but at the tender age of 18, you have little chance of being able to really parent her. It sounds like you don't even have the help of the father. You can sue him for child support, but unless he has a good income, you won't get much from him.You have a golden opportunity to give an amazing gift to a childless couple. When you are older and married and settled, you can have more children. There are so many kinds of adoptions now, including open adoptions in which you are able to be in contact with the adoptive parents and watch your daughter grow up.Please consider this loving act for your child's sake. She deserves the best you can give her, and you are just not ready yet.You make a good point RiverMoonLady. I know all of this that you're telling me. I know i'm facing some real challenges ahead. I think about it all the time. Sometimes i think that the best option really is adoption, both for me and the baby. But then sometimes i wonder, maybe, just maybe i can make it. Maybe i'll be a great mother, and i'll take great care of her, and it might be hard, but maybe i can do it. I dont know, i'm really torn.I sorely disagree with you here RiverMoonLady. You are very strong and persuasive, and you might just convince Bernie to do something she will forever regret.Bernie you should be the one to raise your own child if you are at all capable. You said you have your father to help support you until you are on your feet. He's your father, I'm sure he loves you and his grandchild enough to let you take advantage a little. You also strike me as someone who won't take advantage for any longer than is absolutely necessary.I am the youngest of nine children, my mother always said that if you wait until you can afford children, you probably will never have any. You will make it. Have faith in yourself and your family and friends who will help to support you the moment they set eyes on your new baby.You're going to be GREAT mom!Thank you, nancyu. i have a lot to think about. I'm not taking this decision lightly. Right now, I want to keep her. Ever since I found out I was pregnant, I wanted her. It's just that when people tell me how hard it will be and how better off she might be with other parents... i start to think "maybe they're right". But I know deep down in my heart that I would go the the end of the earth and back for my daughter. I wouldnt let anything bad happen to her. I already love her. Everyday that I feel her moving in my stomach, i love her more and more. It will be really hard to give her up. I am confident that my dad will help me all the way. He will really help me financially as much as he can. If I want to keep her, I do have the means to do it...she'll never go without food, diapers, any necessity. And emotionally, I think I've matured a lot since I got pregnant. I know this isnt a game anymore. I have another little life to think about. Thats why I've been taking care of myself while I'm pregnant...because everything i do, i'm doing for my baby. So when she's born, it wont be any different. I'll sacrifice and give everything to her, just like i am now.

reply from:scopia19822

Bernie I am glad that you are going to keep your baby, it sounds like you have a good support network and do not feel ashamed to take help if you needed.

reply from:Cecilia

Jealous of success? I do not even know where you get that. I am far successful in life and career and money than 24 year old who think herself better than others. You talk of your students who may end up as adults living on welfare, but you are hypocrite there. Those children grow up into adults who may need welfare. Are they culturally poor? You do not have a good answer so you try to distract by being nasty and lying? Apparently lying makes you "culturally rich"? You did look at posts. What cowardly thing to do, to say not look at posts that disagree with you and then attack people.I do not care your opinions on any topic you have shown yourself to be such an uncompassionate person. Here is another prolifer you could not ask help for. You said "culturally poor" are people who say they believe they can live only off welfare. That, you very young child, has to do with income. You have lied a few times.

reply from:Cecilia

You say it might be difficult for 18 year old with no education to rasie a child. Face fact: It will be difficult and she should know it. You do not know if drug addict; she is online stranger.Adoption is a respectable choice. It's not "ditching" your child. How terrible for you to say that!!!Imagine...young mother looking for family to adopt child and you question her...say to her, "why would you ditch your child"? Or the child who was adopted..."you were ditched". Terrible things to say. What is wrong with so many people on here?

reply from:Cecilia

See, there are some things everyone can agree on! Happy thanksgiving to you.

reply from:4given

You say it might be difficult for 18 year old with no education to rasie a child. Face fact: It will be difficult and she should know it. You do not know if drug addict; she is online stranger.Adoption is a respectable choice. It's not "ditching" your child. How terrible for you to say that!!!Imagine...young mother looking for family to adopt child and you question her...say to her, "why would you ditch your child"? Or the child who was adopted..."you were ditched". Terrible things to say. What is wrong with so many people on here? Yeah. What is wrong with you? Of course you will find fault in a poster that actually cares about what a pregnant teen may feel or face. Guilty over not allowing the same opportunity to your child Cecilia? Care to share why adoption didn't enter into your scenario? Was that your only child Cecilia? How did you abort him/her? How far along were you?

reply from:scopia19822

You say it might be difficult for 18 year old with no education to rasie a child. Face fact: It will be difficult and she should know it. You do not know if drug addict; she is online stranger.'Adoption is a respectable choice. It's not "ditching" your child. How terrible for you to say that!!!Imagine...young mother looking for family to adopt child and you question her...say to her, "why would you ditch your child"? Or the child who was adopted..."you were ditched".Terrible things to say. What is wrong with so many people on here?'I agree that adoption is and can be a respectable choice. More so than abortion IMHO. However, it is not a decison to be made lightly and often you cannot do it arbitraly.In most cases the birthfather also has to give his consent, if an adoption is finalized without the fathers consent it can be nullified as he did not sign away his parental rights. Also women can be pressured into adoption as much as abortion. Some prospective adoptive parents think that just because they pay the expenses of the birth mom that automatically entitles them to her baby and that is just not so. Most states have a waiting period after birth that gives a woman the chance to change her mind and keep the baby. It is not to uncommon for the prospective AP to remind the woman that she "owes" them after all they did for her. And the woman usually will surrender her child under that type of pressure. The adoption industry needs a major overhaul, just like the abortion industry needs to go. The expensive for profit adoption agencies and the private practice profit hungary adoption lawyers need to go. There should be a cap set on how much a private attourney can charge for adoptions. Adoptions should be handled by either state agencies or non profit religious or other agencies. Also adoption needs to be made more affordable so that more people who could otherwise provide children a good home, but cant adopt because they cannot afford the unreasonable adoption costs can adopt. Maybe we would not have so many children in the foster care system in need of homes if more people were allowed to adopt. As it stands now it appears that only the rich and upper middle class can afford to adopt.

reply from:scopia19822

"Jealous of success? I do not even know where you get that. I am far successful in life and career and money than 24 year old who think herself better than others. You talk of your students who may end up as adults living on welfare, but you are hypocrite there. Those children grow up into adults who may need welfare. Are they culturally poor? You do not have a good answer so you try to distract by being nasty and lying?Apparently lying makes you "culturally rich"? You did look at posts. What cowardly thing to do, to say not look at posts that disagree with you and then attack people.I do not care your opinions on any topic you have shown yourself to be such an uncompassionate person. Here is another prolifer you could not ask help for.You said "culturally poor" are people who say they believe they can live only off welfare. That, you very young child, has to do with income. You have lied a few times."Liberal is not the majority of us prolifers. Yet I wonder if these students she is referring are minority students? It would be the adult thing for her to answer the questions, but she will not do that. If people like her are what is coming into the public education system we parents really should protest. My son is in kindergarten and his teacher has been teaching for 40 years, so he is fortunate to have a competant educator. Sadly many of the good ones are now retiring and we have people like Liberal replacing them. I would not want my son to have someone like that teaching him, much less if he was a special needs child. Working with special needs children during the school day is not the same thing as raising them 24/7. I went to a parochial school until 8th grade and then to a public high school, believe me their is a difference in the quality of education that is offered. Now it seems that public schools are teaching the kids how to pass the mandated standarized tests, not to think. Next year I am thinking of homeschooling my son or seeing if I can get loans or scholarships to send him to parochial school.

reply from:Cecilia

You say it might be difficult for 18 year old with no education to rasie a child. Face fact: It will be difficult and she should know it. You do not know if drug addict; she is online stranger.Adoption is a respectable choice. It's not "ditching" your child. How terrible for you to say that!!!Imagine...young mother looking for family to adopt child and you question her...say to her, "why would you ditch your child"? Or the child who was adopted..."you were ditched". Terrible things to say. What is wrong with so many people on here? Yeah. What is wrong with you? Of course you will find fault in a poster that actually cares about what a pregnant teen may feel or face. Guilty over not allowing the same opportunity to your child Cecilia? Care to share why adoption didn't enter into your scenario? Was that your only child Cecilia? How did you abort him/her? How far along were you?You talk about how adoption is ditching your child, and then you go after me for telling you that is a terrible thing to say!!! I find not fault in a poster that cares about what pregnant teen may face you lie. I find fault in poster who says that adoption is ditching your child. You know that was *****ty thing to say so you try to attack me. You have no integrity.

reply from:Cecilia

I know liberal is not the majority of prolifers, but on here I see many more extreme prolifers like her so I am trying to remember that. I think Montessori schools have alot of scholarships and they might be interesting to you too.Do you think adoption is ditching your child?

reply from:scopia19822

"Do you think adoption is ditching your child?"Not at all, I just think that it needs to be a decision that is thought long and hard on before deciding to surrender ones child for adoption. And unlike abortion where a man has no say so in the fate of his child, most of the time adoptions cannot be finalized with out his consent.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

Aside from that making almost no sense... NEEDING welfare is completely different from choosing to live on it permanently. And it's not just living on welfare that makes someone culturally poor.Looking doesn't mean bothering to reply. Also, there is something called "skimming", in which someone lightly scans over the content.No. Culturally poor people CHOOSE to only live off welfare. That's quite different from thinking you need it. I speak of people who COULD get jobs, but who DON'T because they can just collect welfare. That's for damn sure.The at-risk students, you mean? Some of them happen to be minorities, but they are not at risk because they are minorities. They are also not poor or culturally poor because they are minorities; that's just a coincidence. It is true however that MANY of poor Americans are minorities. What do YOU make of that? You should hear how much teachers complain that they have to teach for the test. on't blame us for what president Bush did with "No Child Left Behind". His attempts have actually forced education to become what you complain about, and the teachers don't like it any more than you do.Good luck! The problem is, ALL schools have to follow state standards.

reply from:4given

You say it might be difficult for 18 year old with no education to rasie a child. Face fact: It will be difficult and she should know it. You do not know if drug addict; she is online stranger.Adoption is a respectable choice. It's not "ditching" your child. How terrible for you to say that!!!Imagine...young mother looking for family to adopt child and you question her...say to her, "why would you ditch your child"? Or the child who was adopted..."you were ditched". Terrible things to say. What is wrong with so many people on here? Yeah. What is wrong with you? Of course you will find fault in a poster that actually cares about what a pregnant teen may feel or face. Guilty over not allowing the same opportunity to your child Cecilia? Care to share why adoption didn't enter into your scenario? Was that your only child Cecilia? How did you abort him/her? How far along were you?You talk about how adoption is ditching your child, and then you go after me for telling you that is a terrible thing to say!!! I said no such thing. Nor do you. Hey, I wasn't attacking you. I asked you questions that you should be willing to answer.

reply from:scopia19822

"Aside from that making almost no sense... NEEDING welfare is completely different from choosing to live on it permanently. And it's not just living on welfare that makes someone culturally poor."Liberal that was Cecilias comment not mine."No. Culturally poor people CHOOSE to only live off welfare. That's quite different from thinking you need it. I speak of people who COULD get jobs, but who DON'T because they can just collect welfare. "That is also in refernece to Cecilas comment. Liberal people can no longer get welfare for an indefinante period of time anymore. You are allowed to get it for 2 years at a time and no more than 5 years in a lifetime. Welfare does not pay much, it is nearly impossible to live off of it alone. Also every state required the receiptants to work, go to school or particpate in some sort of job training course. BTW have you examined the recent state of our economy? In alot of regions around the nation there are NO JOBS."The at-risk students, you mean? Some of them happen to be minorities, but they are not at risk because they are minorities. They are also not poor or culturally poor because they are minorities; that's just a coincidence. It is true however that MANY of poor Americans are minorities. What do YOU make of that? "I see people who have been marginalized by people who think like you. It is hard to get ahead when people refuse to hire a person other than for low paying jobs because they are poor. Or think they are inferior because they are "culturally poor" what does that mean? THey dont go to expensive art muesems and the opera?. BTW where did you come up with the nice euphamiesm "culturally poor" that is one of the funniest yet most ridiculous things I have ever heard. Well I better go watch the Jerry Springer episode I taped today.. need to get some culture ..."est. on't blame us for what president Bush did with "No Child Left Behind". His attempts have actually forced education to become what you complain about, and the teachers don't like it any more than you do."What else I dont like about most modern public educators are the ones that assume when a student is "acting out," they have ADD or ADHD and send a note home to the childs parents urging them to get the child to a doctor and the teacher reccommends medication. Does it ever cross your mind that some of these students, including your so called at risk students are actually gifted and just board? That they are not being challenged enough? Maybe some of you teachers are just plain boring and not engaging the students interest or intellect? I guess it is much easier to dope them up rather than to challenge them on a more advanced level."Good luck! The problem is, ALL schools have to follow state standards."Private, especially parochial schools actually EXCEED state standards a lot of the time. Academic standards are not what they use to be. We have kids in middle and high school who either cannot read or read on a 2nd/3rd grade level. Because teachers promoted them based on the concept of 'social promotion". If a student cannot do the work, than they should not pass the class or get promoted to the next grade.

reply from:Cecilia

You say it might be difficult for 18 year old with no education to rasie a child. Face fact: It will be difficult and she should know it. You do not know if drug addict; she is online stranger.Adoption is a respectable choice. It's not "ditching" your child. How terrible for you to say that!!!Imagine...young mother looking for family to adopt child and you question her...say to her, "why would you ditch your child"? Or the child who was adopted..."you were ditched". Terrible things to say. What is wrong with so many people on here? Yeah. What is wrong with you? Of course you will find fault in a poster that actually cares about what a pregnant teen may feel or face. Guilty over not allowing the same opportunity to your child Cecilia? Care to share why adoption didn't enter into your scenario? Was that your only child Cecilia? How did you abort him/her? How far along were you?You talk about how adoption is ditching your child, and then you go after me for telling you that is a terrible thing to say!!! I said no such thing. Nor do you. Hey, I wasn't attacking you. I asked you questions that you should be willing to answer.I apologize, I see now it was nancyu who said adoption was ditching your child. You did not stand against though now did you.Why do I have no integrity? Because I think someone saying adoption is ditching your child is a terrible thing to say? Ha ha ha. Good laugh.Yes, sure your tone was perfectly innocent, 4given. I'm sure you didn't mean anything negative about what you said, 4given. Care to share why you think your tone was so innocent, 4given? Guilty over not showing any compassion, 4given? Shame at being a liar, 4given?You lie on two things, one is that I do care what pregnant teen faces, that is why I am standing up staying that adoption is not ditching your child, and your second lie is that your questions weren't attacks. I know you not so used to dealing with intelligent people, look at the company you keep and defend, but it is a good thing there are many smarter people out there than you and nancyu.

reply from:LiberalChiRo

"Aside from that making almost no sense... NEEDING welfare is completely different from choosing to live on it permanently. And it's not just living on welfare that makes someone culturally poor."Liberal that was Cecilias comment not mine.She wanted me to reply so I did. I know it wasn't yours, that's why I left it in quotation marks.Then how exactly are these people getting rims for their cars but their children have no new shoes? I'm just explaining what I see around here. Maybe they're not on welfare; it really doesn't make a difference to me. They are not working, I hear stories time and again about this. The ones who do work are making so little money, yet spend it on alcohol and cigarettes. They aren't teaching their children proper values, these kids steal from the classroom and think that beating people up is the best solution to a disagreement. Why? Because that's what their parents do. Being unemployed does not make you culturally poor; it is a mindset, not a financial status alone.Lie. I haven't maginalized anyone. I am outright accusing certain people of being bad parents, that's what I'm doing. Nothing more and nothing less. They aren't teaching their children to be good people, they aren't providing for their children what those kids need to thrive. Sure their kids are living, but that's not thriving, or doing well in class or getting along well with other people. Who on earth would do that?Did you read where I said Brittany Spears is culturally poor? I don't know how else to describe this to you other than trailer trash. many museums are actually free, my mother and father took me and my brother to museums, parks and other things like that all the time when we were young, and we were considered to be in the lower class: poor. You can have culture yet be poor at the same time. You don't have to be classless just because you're poor. You don't have to be unsophisticated just because you make your own clothes.I made it up since it was a new way of saying trailer trash, that included all races. Trailer trash is racist since it mostly applies to white people. I was trying not to be racist.Those guests are an excellent example of people who are culturally poor.Teachers are encouraged to "label" children because then the student gets an Individualized Education Plan (IEP). Many teachers honestly want to help their students, my mom is one of them. It's not just a "note" sent home saying "medicate your kid", there is actually a lot of paperwork, testing and conferences that happen when a student is suspected of needing extra help. Sometimes a student who really needs this help can't get it because people like you think all the teacher is trying to do is medicate the kid; that's why there is so much beurocracy involved.Seems like I'm not the only one who has some stereotypes as to how our country operates? I admit I don't really know anything about how welfare works, and you don't seem to know very much about the education system. I'd love it if they were just bored, but then don't you think they'd be getting A's and B's on all of their tests? I was a gifted student, I was the "bored" student. I did not fail, EVER. These children DO. These children fail in part because they don't have very deep background knowledge - culturalization from their parents. They also fail because they don't have parental support at home, either because mommy and daddy work or are in jail so the older siblings are in charge, or because their parents party all the time. These kids aren't dumb, they're average kids, but the fact that they are poor and their parents haven't culturalized them means they do badly in school. I'm not making any of this up btw, this is the information given to us as educators.You clearly have NO idea what the education system is like in Florida. I fully realise that the smart kids are being bored to death. At-risk students for the most part are NOT in the category of gifted. That goes with what I said above. Whether you exceed it or not, you still have to teach to the test. Guess why private schools exceed expectations? They have smaller class sizes.That's because they're not allowed to be "left behind".If I had any clue what that was I could respond to you.Oh but that's called "leaving the child behind"!! We can't DO that. We also can't split off the smart kids and let them take harder classes. ALL students must be in the same class together.

reply from:lukesmom

You seem really hung up on compassion. How much compassion did YOU show the unborn child/ren you killed? Did you care if there was pain for them or maybe all you cared about was yourself? You, darlin' shouldn't be throwing stones when you live in a glass house. You love to rag on everyone here you think is making uncompassionate statements, yet you insinuate people are stupid and you are much better than anyone here. Honey, you killed at least one of your children, while the women you talk down to have sacrificed in ways you could never know for thiers. Take a look at yourself before you come here and judge us.

reply from:Cecilia

You seem really hung up on compassion. How much compassion did YOU show the unborn child/ren you killed? Did you care if there was pain for them or maybe all you cared about was yourself? You, darlin' shouldn't be throwing stones when you live in a glass house. You love to rag on everyone here you think is making uncompassionate statements, yet you insinuate people are stupid and you are much better than anyone here. Honey, you killed at least one of your children, while the women you talk down to have sacrificed in ways you could never know for thiers. Take a look at yourself before you come here and judge us.Look, more attacking me, you say what you want about me, it does not change the type of person you are. This post of yours say more about your character than me.Posters say adoption is ditching children, I say that is a terrible thing to say, and now you attack me. You tell someone to be very hurtful to someone else, I tell you that is terrible, you attack me. I never say I'm perfect, I say that I am more compassionate than you. Is this a lie? I would never tell someone to be nasty like you did. If that makes me smarter than you call it what it is. My abortion many, many years ago. I have grown into different person. You are still a child who needs to learn how to treat other people.

reply from:Cecilia

I think you just repeating the conservative anecdotes. I doubt you really hear stories time and again about this. I work with people on welfare who have less than nothing. They get in line at the grocery store and tell me about the looks they get if they buy themselves a treat like ice cream. You think disenfranchised people should only buy what you say is okay? No gifts for them either? Maybe friend gave them "rims for their cars". I don't know what that is...are rims on cars like the wheel covers? You really are stuck in very small world.Are you a teacher? You talk about your mother much teaching, but do you teach, too? License or are you aide?

reply from:LiberalChiRo

I think you just repeating the conservative anecdotes.Which is hilarious since I'm a democrat and I voted for Obama. I'm not repeating anything; I am actually telling you eye-witness reports of how some of my students and the students in my school live.I do. Not just my own students this year, but students in my mother's class, and students last year. Students my dad works with - dear God, the students my dad works with... they have some of the most tragic home lives you can imagine. Like clothing for their children? Yeah, if you knew the students I knew, you'd say the same thing.Answer me how we can both work with "disenfranchised" people yet be seeing two completely different things? Is it because I only see their children and don't have the parents to lie to me? Is it because I see potentially shining stars being tarnished, and you just see the tarnished adults? I don't know, I just know it pisses me off to no end. Oh COME ON. PLEASE. Don't act like an idiot. You and I both know the culture car rims are in. They're pimping their ride to show it off to the neighborhood and you know it. Hell, they probably got the money to buy the rims from drugs.You really are stuck in very small world.Apparently, since in my world it seems completely moronic to refuse to hire someone because they are poor. That, to me, is a reason TO hire them. Are you a teacher? You talk about your mother much teaching, but do you teach, too? License or are you aide?I am currently a Paraprofessional in a Pre-K ESE classroom with 7 students ranging in age from 3-5. I was hired as a 3rd grade teacher at the beginning of the school year, but the school district down here is idiotic and cut the position two weeks before school. I had my classroom decorated and ready and had helped prepare the first several weeks of lesson plans. Thank god the principal was able to get me a job as a para in an ESE pre-k classroom. She was so angry my position was cut. Now just two weeks ago, district looked at our student numbers and went "Oh hey, you know you need another 3rd grade teacher?" Stupid gits. I wasn't transferred to the new position for a number of reasons, the main ones being that I'm happy working where I am, and it would be really hard on the kids to have me leave at this point.I'm starting classes in the Education Preparation Institute this January and I'll get my professional teaching degree within a year and a half. In the meantime, I can still be hired as a teacher like I was this fall.

reply from:4given

Is that a question? What exactly are you trying to state here? You have no idea what my experience is with adoption and how that statement "makes sense". The family member I know that was placed refers to her pain as an adolescent and young adult as "abandonment". I suppose "ditched" may have been her term early on. You want to find/take issue with that statement. To me "ditched" has to do with the dumpster or incinerator that host the aborted. Who would do that aware of the facts? Only you know how and why your integrity is diminished. I won't point out what troubles me about your story and posting habits- which include attacks on the women that have been faced with pain and chose to do what they could despite. Why do you suppose that is? No ha- ha or ha here. It is sad.I am not dishonest Cecilia. "Perfectly innocent"? I was asking you about your abortion. I don't have to "show" compassion.. do I? I live it. Do you? Are you here for those that actually value their unborn child- and accept it as their own? Or are you here for the justification to kill it? I don't know, which is why I asked you. I am sure you hurt. I think you need to face it. Okay.. I will again post what I said " Of course you will find fault in a poster that actually cares about what a pregnant teen may feel or face. " That is not dishonest. What you have done is spin the situation and statement around to better suit yours. You imply that she does not care. I say you actually do not. I suppose I should search for your advice and sympathy now.. Do you suppose I will find it? You are right! I am used to dealing with the likes of you. Stop with the petty. Be honest with yourself. Healing will come. Stop with the games.

reply from:scopia19822

"Lie. I haven't maginalized anyone. I am outright accusing certain people of being bad parents, that's what I'm doing. Nothing more and nothing less. They aren't teaching their children to be good people, they aren't providing for their children what those kids need to thrive. Sure their kids are living, but that's not thriving, or doing well in class or getting along well with other people."Your job is to educate the students, NOT to JUDGE their parents or their economic status. They teach you about students who live in a "culture of poverty "( which means children who are 3rd generation in a cycle of poverty) because often these people have little to no expectations because they have been marginlized for so long. Your taught that so you can reach through the barrier in SPITE of their poverty. You are supposed to have the same expectations and tolerate their mistakes like you would the children from better economic circumstances. I do not like the idea of someone in education JUDGING their students parents because of thier economic circumstances. IF you want to JUDGE people than become a social worker. Your job is educator, not social worker. In your post to Cecilia you said you were not even a liscensed teacher, but a teachers aid. If you decide to pursue teaching as your career you will learn soon enough to loose your attitude or you will not last long."That goes with what I said above. Whether you exceed it or not, you still have to teach to the test. Guess why private schools exceed expectations? They have smaller class sizes. "And because they attract better quality teachers . This is why I am in favor of school vouchers, maybe if poor people has the same educational opportunities as the rich we could break the cycle of poverty among familes. But when all you can do is send your child to the failing public school system where they really dont learn squat what else can you do. I would rather my tax dollars go to send my son to the local Catholic school, where God is incorporated into curriculum, than a failing public school. He seems to be doing well in public school right now as he has a veteran teacher, but time will only tell with next year..."I made it up since it was a new way of saying trailer trash, that included all races. Trailer trash is racist since it mostly applies to white people. I was trying not to be racist."Well the term "culturally poor" is just as offensive and demeaning as any racial epiphet you may utter. Your not being racist, but are being an elitist, judging people based on their economic circumstances I daresay without knowing why or how the family got their and that is just as bad as racism. You really should not be in the education system if this is your preception of some of your students, your job is educate not judge. BTW the term "social promotion " is the concept based on promoting kids so they will be in the same group with their age appropriate peers rather than if they can really do the work or not. I am surprised you being an "educator" did not know that.

reply from:Cecilia

Okay.. I will again post what I said " Of course you will find fault in a poster that actually cares about what a pregnant teen may feel or face. " That is not dishonest. What you have done is spin the situation and statement around to better suit yours. You imply that she does not care. I say you actually do not. I suppose I should search for your advice and sympathy now.. Do you suppose I will find it?The statement I post problems with is "adopting is ditching your children". You have spun that. Do you believe adoption is ditching your children?You defend a poerson who says to send someone a nasty vicious note. I think we both know that kind of person who does that, and you defend them, too. "Birds of a feather". You are right! I am used to dealing with the likes of you. Stop with the petty. Be honest with yourself. Healing will come. Stop with the games."Healing will come"? From what? What games? I am being petty because I stand up against nasty statements?I'llf ind my comments for you:Here is what I said to poster: "Have an adoption, it's win win win win (for you, baby, adoptive parents, and society). "I also said that this child is not ready to have a child.Then Liberal started this conversation about "culturally poor" and I defend against her statements. Big stereotyping there.Having worked in public sector many years and seen many children by very young parents deal with incredible barriers, I promote adoption. Not abortion, adoption. I do not think many women hould have abortions who do. They are ambivalent about their choice and this is not a choice to be ambivalent about. How can there be argument with me?

reply from:Cecilia

This would be a good question if I just saw the "tarnished adults". I have dealt with whole families.Here is how we can see two completely different things. I have more experience than you working with people. This not a insult against your age I know you are quick to assume. For a second think that maybe after many years and I have more education I know a more things or two than you do. Idiots make assumptions. Like you assume i know your culture, and you assume they got money from drugs. You don't know where I live. What kind of teacher are you if you make these assumptions about people without knowing facts?No one argues that it is not stupid. But you are arguing that it is not done at all, and it is. DId you know that credit checks are done as part of hiring processes sometimes? Do you realize that people on government assistance are marginalized? You should because even you do it. Lets say you've got Joe with nice tie and jacket, hair nicely done, good education, references. Now you have Bob who has old jacket on, hair not so neat, looks like he has had hard life. Education is not as suberb, references are from work detail from shelter or sometihng. Nine times out of ten, Joe gets job. That is how poverty works, it takes over your whole life and you are stuck in a mud puddle and it's harder and harder to get out of it.That is great, glad you are doing more school. I hope you continue to like your work

reply from:4given

No. But I understood the initial poster when she was advising a woman, that stated how adoption didn't suit her. I can't speak for Nancy, but I believe I know how she intended the statement. Nancy has been an encouragement to me as we have been through a long process of adoption in regard to our foster son. She doesn't view adoption as such, but each case is different. Each parent and child will feel differently. Those close to me that were placed have made similar statements about their parents. The parent who did so said it took her 3 days to decide if adoption was right, as she felt maybe she was "giving away what I may regret.." Thing is I do know her. She isn't by any means nasty. She was in her own way showing support for the poster that felt attacked. You choose not to see that. I know her better than that. She isn't vindictive. I already addressed this with you.Again with the games. You justified your abortion. It does not mean that it did not hurt you. You are being petty because you choose to find fault in the wrong things. It seems to me to be a personal issue with the said posters, and not what they actually were stating. Both of these women were trying to support another woman. That is the bottom line. We are all unique in our ideas about how to do so. Adoption is indeed a wonderful choice. I can tell you from experience that it is a difficult choice to make, one that hurts the parents, children and adoptive homes at times. Each person is different. We all have varying degrees of separation. Some more extreme. The mothers that placed their children, the children placed, the families that adopt- Every being and situation is unique. There is something bittersweet about every situation though. I trust you realize this.