Nurses, physicians weigh in on new doctoral nurse degree

No one wants to badmouth Florence Nightingale, but a new degree for nurses is causing bad blood between doctors and their longtime colleagues. The program confers the title of doctor on nurses, but some in the medical profession say only physicians should call themselves "doctor."

Dr. Steven Knope is a family practitioner in Tucson, Ariz. "If you're on an airline," he jokes, "and a poet with a Ph.D. is there and somebody has a heart attack, and they say 'Is there a doctor in the house?'-should the poet stand up?" Knope laughs. "Of course not."

Physicians such as Knope say the title of doctor implies a certain amount of training, hours in medical school that nurses just don't have. Dr. Ted Epperly, president of the American Association of Family Practitioners, says that while doctors place a high value on nurses, sharing the same title could confuse-and even harm-patients.

In the article, Dr. Steven Knope (anti-doctoral prepared nurses) attempted to drive his point home regarding patient confusion by asking the question of whether or not a doctoral prepared poet would stand up if they overheard someone shouting for a doctor on a plane that had an individual suffering from an MI onboard. Is he drawing a parallel between doctoral prepared nurses and poets? If so, going forward when he asks for a nurse to do something in the hospital then I think it's appropriate to answer that the doctor nurse is busy authoring a sonnet or a haiku at the moment. Clean the patient yourself doctor doctor.

This discussion always reminds me of the moment when Dorothy discovers that the Great and Powerful Oz is simply a man behind the curtain. Advanced Practice Health Care Providers are perceived as a threat to the authoritarian medical establishment. It's a pity; given the current state of health care and the shortage of providers.

I can't help but think about all the times I would get upset at the doctors office upon hearing the doctor refer to his medical assistant as "Nurse".......

I think a doctorally prepared nurse should be able to be called a doctor.

I think that the doc's should start wearing name badges to the hospital that show that they have MD behind their name. This would prevent confusion - Just like the rest of the hospital staff to show who is an RN, CNA, RT, etc....

Oh yeah...I was remiss in adding, that I think that they should have their own color of scrubs too! LOL.

Thank you for posting this article...I think is important to clarify what is the scope of practice entailed to a doctoral nurse degree. The MDs are saying that doctoral level educated nurses are using a title which do not belong to them compared with the extended training and education an MD has. What I consider as important is to educate the public because in their mind once they hear the title "doctor" in connection to a person who wears a white coat people in general think of an MD. I think this disagreement between MDs and DNDs is an uphill battle for the scope of practice of medicine doctor has been clearly established for many years whereas doctoral nurse degree is seen as an emerging minority within a field of medicine who has become a "thorn on the MD's side" which they feel obligated to challenge every step of the way starting by the right of nurses to be called doctors after obtaining valid education and credentials. I have noticed the MDs' attempts to diminsh the DNDs' accomplishments, already, in this article by comparing the nurses' DND hard earn degree with a PhD in poetry. I can even imagine the MD not giving the status of equality to the DND as far as an advance level practice by assigning the DND to do tasks that an LVN or even a CNA could do or even more abusive to make the DND do all the job while the doctor sits back "supervises" while getting all the credit and earning a way higher salary than the DND who is doing all the job. That is why I think a clearly definedscope of practice for DNDs is critical for it benefits all: the patient, the advanced level practice nurse and the doctor who feels his little kingdom threatened by the new and very well educated "doctor" in the block.

From this article, it seems that the "issue" of confusion is easily cleared up by a proper introduction by the Dr-Nurse.

As a young teen..It was years before I realized what a physician's assistant was...for a long time I thought it was like a medical assistant, but for a physician. It wasn't until I was much older that I realized that it was MUCH more than that.

I also used to think that a nurse practioner and a practical nurse was the same thing...again, this was a learning curve for me.

The new title of DNP, is just another avenue of practice that the public will have to be educated about.

I COMPLETELY disagree that the title will harm patients...to me, that was a crock.

Interesting...since when does a MD or a DO have exclusive right to the term "Doctor"? I bet most Professors would just love to beg to differ with them.

I can totally understand the term "Physician"...because that is what they are. With this title, they have exclusive domain. Even their own abbrevs clue us in that the term "Doctor" requires a qualifier for them...Medical as a qualifier for the Doctor in MD.....Of Osteopathy as a qualifier for the Doctor in DO. No different than a Doctor in Nursing, History, Political Science, Engineering, et cetera. As it stands, Physicians do not have the exclusive right using the term Doctor. They are Physicians. A title which earns great respect all its own. Anyone who has earned the term Doctor (if granted by an institution of higher learning) should be permitted to use that professional title in professional company. Yes, they have earned it...even a Physician. However, we need to understand that the term Doctor is not synonymous to Physician.

One thought regarding all of this is...maybe it is time that physicians NOT add to the confusion (that they seem so concerned about)...ie not referring to oneself as a doctor. It is more true and correct to say, "I am your Physician." No confusion. No different than "I am your Nurse" or "I am your Lawyer."

The example previously given about a person having an MI on an airplane...a misleading example...only begs if not leads the audience to a desired conclusion. It is most correct in this example, however, to ask, "Is there a physician on the plane?"

I have seen the same attitude from MDs in regaurds to DOs. I think it is important to point out the vetrinarians, podiatrists, dentists, and chiropractors all carry the title of "Dr". So, if someone said "is there a Dr around," should a veternarian stand up? Give me a break!

Some one needs to explain to the docs that the only reason they are called Drs is that they have a doctoral degree in medical science. Doctoral degrees have been around far longer and had, for quite a while, much more conveyed dignity and training then that given to medical professionals.

If they are going to have a stick up their butts about the title "Dr" then they need to stop stealing the term from liberal arts and just take on the term "Physician" since that is technically more accurate.

Sometimes it just go to show you that an "expert" is someone who knows a lot about one subject and next to nothing about anything else.

I would not call my professor or someone with a doctorate in ___fill in the blank___ "doctor" in a clinical setting as to me (and the general public) doctor, in a hospital setting, refers to physician. It is misleading to the public, staff and does not seem to serve a true purpose except to ... ???
There are state BONs that already have standards to NOT use the term doctor in the workplace.. or others that require doctor to be addressed something like, Doctor of nursing... as they realize it is confusing.

I would not call my professor or someone with a doctorate in ___fill in the blank___ "doctor" in a clinical setting as to me (and the general public) doctor, in a hospital setting, refers to physician. It is misleading to the public

If you only knew your professor as Dr. Anderson, i would wonder what you would call him then? Mr? Or just Anderson? Perhaps you read his first name in a university catalog, and by chance knew his first name was Tom. Would you address him as Tom Anderson? Would you add a disclaimer, "sorry Mr. Anderson, but i cannot call you by your true designation here..." If you have a doctorate, then you are a doctor. It is not a negotiation, just a fact.
If the public is misled, they need go no further than any dictionary to get back on track.:spin:

If you only knew your professor as Dr. Anderson, i would wonder what you would call him then? Mr? Or just Anderson? Perhaps you read his first name in a university catalog, and by chance knew his first name was Tom. Would you address him as Tom Anderson? Would you add a disclaimer, "sorry Mr. Anderson, but i cannot call you by your true designation here..." If you have a doctorate, then you are a doctor. It is not a negotiation, just a fact.
If the public is misled, they need go no further than any dictionary to get back on track.:spin:

I have to reiterate your point.

There is a guy I know here in the Philippines who operates a business whose client base is mostly nurses. He is a Doctor of Business. He worked for many years to achieve his doctorate and his primary focus for his doctoral dissertation was a method of how specific businesses can help medical professionals.

For a long time he would not use his title because he did not want to mislead people and finally I encouraged him to do it because he didn't work 8 years to be called "Mr."