Crono1973:Been listening to feminist bias for years. It is every case where feminists believe sexism can't happen to men. Can you tell me where men are underrepresented and can you then show me where feminists have fought for equality?

You are quite capable of uncovering that information for yourself. It's not the job of strangers on the internet to batter through your obvious confirmation bias when it comes to feminism.

THIS context is sexist when it happens to women because they are already underrepresented. Nobody said sexism can't happen to men.

Been listening to feminist bias for years. It is every case where feminists believe sexism can't happen to men. For example, can you tell me where men are underrepresented and can you then show me where feminists have fought for equality?

I remembered speaking with you before, actually, and finding you rather reality-proof, so pardon me for not wasting much time here.Yep. My college made a huge push to encourage men to take childcare courses, I, as a feminist, am completely for that and worked with many competent male childcare workers.But I guess I didn't start the initiative myself, other people did, people who want equality. Feminists. And yeah yeah `oh no feminists just look out for wimminz`Don't waste my time.

Well I asked you to show me, not give some anecdotal evidence about a college and yourself. Have we ever seen feminists fight the family courts over the clear bias in custody cases? Have we ever seen the feminists fight for a Violence against Everyone Act or fight against the Violence against Women Act because it's discriminatory? Have we ever seen feminists fight for Title IX for men now that men are underrepresented in college?

Feminists aren't about equality at all because they are only interested in helping women. You can't claim to be fighting for equality when you only fight for one side. I have no problem with a cause named "Feminism" fighting only for women but I do have a problem when you claim you are fighting for equality.

Tenmar: now we have people suggesting that playing video games makes a person sexist.

Nobody has ever said that. Most if not all of the feminist posts I have seen come from women who both play and enjoy video games. Surely they would be calling themselves sexist. All that's wanted is for video games to be inclusive. I don't understand this reasoning discussing possibly sexist content in a videogame does NOT equate to calling all gamers sexist.

As for Pauline I think it's great. I love the bloomers as she tops the ladder. This man must love his daughter very much.

Tenmar: now we have people suggesting that playing video games makes a person sexist.

Nobody has ever said that. Most if not all of the feminist posts I have seen come from women who both play and enjoy video games. Surely they would be calling themselves sexist. All that's wanted is for video games to be inclusive. I don't understand this reasoning discussing possibly sexist content in a videogame does NOT equate to calling all gamers sexist.

As for Pauline I think it's great. I love the bloomers as she tops the ladder. This man must love his daughter very much.

Tenmar: now we have people suggesting that playing video games makes a person sexist.

Nobody has ever said that. Most if not all of the feminist posts I have seen come from women who both play and enjoy video games. Surely they would be calling themselves sexist. All that's wanted is for video games to be inclusive. I don't understand this reasoning discussing possibly sexist content in a videogame does NOT equate to calling all gamers sexist.

As for Pauline I think it's great. I love the bloomers as she tops the ladder. This man must love his daughter very much.

If I changed Kerrigan into a man, would I receive the same praise?

I don't think anyone would care dude he would just be another male protagonist/antagonist in a sea of male protagonists/antagonists.

Look at that outrage that occurred when Lara Croft turned into Nathan Drake. Oh wait there wasn't one.

Well I asked you to show me, not give some anecdotal evidence about a college and yourself. Have we ever seen feminists fight the family courts over the clear bias in custody cases? Have we ever seen the feminists fight for a Violence against Everyone Act or fight against the Violence against Women Act because it's discriminatory? Have we ever seen feminists fight for Title IX for men now that men are underrepresented in college?

Feminists aren't about equality at all because they are only interested in helping women. You can't claim to be fighting for equality when you only fight for one side. I have no problem with a cause named "Feminism" fighting only for women but I do have a problem when you claim you are fighting for equality.

Dude, whatever your problems with feminism, they are your problems.You say I can't say I am fighting for equality and call myself a feminist, I quite clearly can.Your biases are quite clearly showing. I can see we will never agree.You can feel free to dance around and feel like you've won.

Umm okay...hold up. I can't even find this "Mr.Pac-Men" group online at all. Not even a link to his profile or site and even going through 20 pages of google search I can't find anything about him at all.

Something is kinda fishy here. Not even a link to the actual altered game or even a video. Sorry but I'm staying skeptic because there really is a lack of sources and more based on just "believe me, I got a good face".

Defskyoen, I don't know if you're being facetious or not, but Tenmar....come on.

You don't even have to look up "Mr. Pac-Men", just look at other articles on that website.

Okay yeah now I see how much bullshit that website is. It doesn't even try and be like the onion. Just looked like a shitty startup website. Ehh still rather go by taking the small amount of free time I have and check for a source.

Well I asked you to show me, not give some anecdotal evidence about a college and yourself. Have we ever seen feminists fight the family courts over the clear bias in custody cases? Have we ever seen the feminists fight for a Violence against Everyone Act or fight against the Violence against Women Act because it's discriminatory? Have we ever seen feminists fight for Title IX for men now that men are underrepresented in college?

Feminists aren't about equality at all because they are only interested in helping women. You can't claim to be fighting for equality when you only fight for one side. I have no problem with a cause named "Feminism" fighting only for women but I do have a problem when you claim you are fighting for equality.

Dude, whatever your problems with feminism, they are your problems.You say I can't say I am fighting for equality and call myself a feminist, I quite clearly can.Your biases are quite clearly showing. I can see we will never agree.You can feel free to dance around and feel like you've won.

If you can't see the logic in "fighting for only one side =/= fighting for equality" then you are a true feminist. Congratulations.

My biases are as clear as yours are but unlike you, I am not trying to shut down discussion. I noticed that you didn't respond to my examples?

Hixy:But the entire games media does not do that, not at all in fact. Many games have female leads or main characters such as . . . the final fantasy series, ghost in the shell, buffy (it had games), metroid, mirrors edge, mass effect, oni, perferct dark, silent hill, xena (had a game), streets of rage, golden axe, resident evil, portal, alice and gears of war to name a few.

Once again, I'm only addressing Retro games here. The games currently being revived and ported to portable devices of various sorts in App form. Games like Donkey Kong.

None of the games you listed - good games, mind - are retro games.

I would just like to point out that 4 of the games mentioned are retro games, and 5 others could be considered retro depending on your personal age for retro. Hell, if we count all the retro final fantasy and golden axe games , not just as 1, then 11 of the games listed are retro(only counting the three main golden axe games).

First off, it depends on what you mean by retro games. I was talking pre-NES games, like Donkey Kong. None of those are Atari games, except maybe golden axe, and most people usually think of the remakes rather than the original.

Secondly, Final Fantasy and Metroid (both NES games, mind, see above) are usually thought of as franchises. Most people haven't played FF1 - they started at maybe FF6. To be honest, most started higher and went backwards. The same goes for Metroid. Also, are either of these being released as Apps? Which, again, is the context of what I've been talking about.

Thirdly, again with Final Fantasy, there isn't a female lead until FF5. FF6 is the one known for having a female lead. Again, unless they're releasing one of the SNES titles as an App for mobile devices, then they aren't the class of retro titles I'm talking about.

Fourth... I honestly have no idea about Streets of Rage. You may have gotten me on that one if it is an Atari title being re-purposed as a mobile device App. If it's an NES title (or later) and it isn't being used as such, then the above applies - I honestly have no idea.

Been listening to feminist bias for years. It is every case where feminists believe sexism can't happen to men. For example, can you tell me where men are underrepresented and can you then show me where feminists have fought for equality?

I remembered speaking with you before, actually, and finding you rather reality-proof, so pardon me for not wasting much time here.Yep. My college made a huge push to encourage men to take childcare courses, I, as a feminist, am completely for that and worked with many competent male childcare workers.But I guess I didn't start the initiative myself, other people did, people who want equality. Feminists. And yeah yeah `oh no feminists just look out for wimminz`Don't waste my time.

Well I asked you to show me, not give some anecdotal evidence about a college and yourself. Have we ever seen feminists fight the family courts over the clear bias in custody cases? Have we ever seen the feminists fight for a Violence against Everyone Act or fight against the Violence against Women Act because it's discriminatory? Have we ever seen feminists fight for Title IX for men now that men are underrepresented in college?

Feminists aren't about equality at all because they are only interested in helping women. You can't claim to be fighting for equality when you only fight for one side. I have no problem with a cause named "Feminism" fighting only for women but I do have a problem when you claim you are fighting for equality.

A lot of the support for fathers 4 justice (a UK cause to enable men to see their children after a divorce) came from feminist groups.

That aside most of the problems you list were skewed poorly against women to start with. They do not put women in front of men therefore it's for EQUALITY ;)

A lot of these bonuses men hate us for like not being on the front lines or staying home came from the idea that women are weak and should be protected. There are plenty of women who want to fight on the front lines and go to work and we had to FIGHT for those things some men say are downsides of being a guy....

Kind of wierd huh.

Look at gaming, practically everything is catered towards you. Exactly how do you want us to make that more in your favour.

Phasmal:Dude, whatever your problems with feminism, they are your problems.You say I can't say I am fighting for equality and call myself a feminist, I quite clearly can.Your biases are quite clearly showing. I can see we will never agree.You can feel free to dance around and feel like you've won.

At this point, Phasmal, it's not worth it. He is clearly cheery-picking whatever we say so he can loudly protest and ignores the fact that we're trying to regain balance and not "man hating".

If you can't see the logic in "fighting for only one side =/= fighting for equality" then you are a true feminist. Congratulations.

My biases are as clear as yours are but unlike you, I am not trying to shut discussion. I noticed that you didn't you respond to my examples?

I am not here to be your friendly feminist example, to take you by the hand and show you that we are not scary women coming after your dicks. If you want to research feminism, do so. But don't act like you're going to change your mind.

I am for gender equality. Not fighting for one side. I'm also a feminist.If that hurts your head, I suggest a lie down in a dark room.

I remembered speaking with you before, actually, and finding you rather reality-proof, so pardon me for not wasting much time here.Yep. My college made a huge push to encourage men to take childcare courses, I, as a feminist, am completely for that and worked with many competent male childcare workers.But I guess I didn't start the initiative myself, other people did, people who want equality. Feminists. And yeah yeah `oh no feminists just look out for wimminz`Don't waste my time.

Well I asked you to show me, not give some anecdotal evidence about a college and yourself. Have we ever seen feminists fight the family courts over the clear bias in custody cases? Have we ever seen the feminists fight for a Violence against Everyone Act or fight against the Violence against Women Act because it's discriminatory? Have we ever seen feminists fight for Title IX for men now that men are underrepresented in college?

Feminists aren't about equality at all because they are only interested in helping women. You can't claim to be fighting for equality when you only fight for one side. I have no problem with a cause named "Feminism" fighting only for women but I do have a problem when you claim you are fighting for equality.

A lot of the support for fathers 4 justice (a UK cause to enable men to see their children after a divorce) came from feminist groups.

That aside most of the problems you list were skewed poorly against women to start with. They do not put women in front of men therefore it's for EQUALITY ;)

A lot of these bonuses men hate us for like not being on the front lines or staying home came from the idea that women are weak and should be protected. There are plenty of women who want to fight on the front lines and go to work and we had to FIGHT for those things some men say are downsides of being a guy....

Kind of wierd huh.

Look at gaming, practically everything is catered towards you. Exactly how do you want us to make that more in your favour.

Is your whole argument built around things that happened in the past that none of us had anything to do with?

Oh and that feminist support for F4J, I'd like to see some credible proof. Were there credible feminist organizations throwing their support behind F4J?

When things are in womens favor, no one cares, especially feminists and this is my problem. You want to celebrate a father making Mario into a female, great but will you also celebrate a parent making Samus, Peach or Kerrigan into a male for their son?

I knew the whole feminism debate was getting rather absurd but I didn't think it would get this bad. This is just a cute story of a dad doing something nice for his daughter no feminism or any other agenda. Now can we all start doing the smart thing and go "Aww, what an awesome dad" and move on?

Nobody has ever said that. Most if not all of the feminist posts I have seen come from women who both play and enjoy video games. Surely they would be calling themselves sexist. All that's wanted is for video games to be inclusive. I don't understand this reasoning discussing possibly sexist content in a videogame does NOT equate to calling all gamers sexist.

As for Pauline I think it's great. I love the bloomers as she tops the ladder. This man must love his daughter very much.

If I changed Kerrigan into a man, would I receive the same praise?

I don't think anyone would care dude he would just be another male protagonist/antagonist in a sea of male protagonists/antagonists.

Look at that outrage that occurred when Lara Croft turned into Nathan Drake. Oh wait there wasn't one.

Lara Croft didn't change into Nathan Drake, separate franchises made by separate developers. Lara Croft is still out there and a new game just came out. Where were you going with that?

Crono1973: You want to celebrate a father making Mario into a female, great but will you also celebrate a parent making Samus, Peach or Kerrigan into a male for their son?

Well yeah...It's kind of a nice thing to do.

What do mean 'is my whole argument around things in the past?' Do you expect me to be psychic and predict the future? The thing you mention are in the past too rofl.

Like I said the things feminists fight for for women they are things which are already skewed unfairly in favour of men and are therefore for equality not to bring women above men.

No, the things I mention are current. Did the Family Courts start awarding custody to fathers 50% of the time? No. Do we have a Violence against Everyone Act yet? No. Are men now equally represented in college? No.

Crono1973: You want to celebrate a father making Mario into a female, great but will you also celebrate a parent making Samus, Peach or Kerrigan into a male for their son?

Well yeah...It's kind of a nice thing to do.

What do mean 'is my whole argument around things in the past?' Do you expect me to be psychic and predict the future? The thing you mention are in the past too rofl.

Like I said the things feminists fight for for women they are things which are already skewed unfairly in favour of men and are therefore for equality not to bring women above men.

No, the things I mention are current. Did the Family Courts start awarding custody to fathers 50% of the time? No. Do we have a Violence against Everyone Act yet? No. Are men no equally represented in college? No.

Which example of mine was in the past?

All of them since they happened you know...in the past...

There's no need for a violence against everyone act because men don't get attacked as much as women. Men are equally represented in college (Do you have evidence otherwise). The idea that women get favourable custody is bullshit and a complete myth (ask any divorce lawyer).

'There are about 2.2 million moms in this country like Julie, moms who don't have primary physical custody of their children. And the number of working moms who lose primary custody has been rising steadily. "A mother's career can be a liability in custody battles," says Laura Allison Wasser, a Los Angeles-based lawyer who has represented Britney Spears and Kate Hudson in high-profile divorces. "There's a huge influx of women who have full-time jobs. Judges want to know who the hands-on parent is, who spends more time with the child. I have made that argument myself: 'Mom's not home-she's out working.'"

Today, it's not uncommon for fathers seeking sole custody in a contested case to prevail at least 50 percent of the time. And Dad is asking for joint or primary custody more and more: Over the past decade, the number of fathers awarded custody of their children has doubled, according to the latest data. In the current generation of dads, gender doesn't dictate who changes a diaper or consoles an infant. And as fathers become more entrenched in their roles as cocaregiver, they're less willing to hand off that role when a marriage breaks down. Women are now also shelling out more child support and sometimes paying alimony.'

Anyway, Nathan Drake has 3 games while Lara Croft has 10. Just what the hell are you trying to argue here?

That no one cares if a female character is replaced by a male. Did you forget already. Speaking of that Lara had a male protagonist usurp her for a while in Angel of Darkness. Exactly no fucks were given.

What do mean 'is my whole argument around things in the past?' Do you expect me to be psychic and predict the future? The thing you mention are in the past too rofl.

Like I said the things feminists fight for for women they are things which are already skewed unfairly in favour of men and are therefore for equality not to bring women above men.

No, the things I mention are current. Did the Family Courts start awarding custody to fathers 50% of the time? No. Do we have a Violence against Everyone Act yet? No. Are men no equally represented in college? No.

Which example of mine was in the past?

All of them since they happened you know...in the past...

There's no need for a violence against everyone act because men don't get attacked as much as women. Men are equally represented in college (Do you have evidence otherwise). The idea that women get favourable custody is bullshit and a complete myth (ask any divorce lawyer).

All of them are current too.

Approximately 1.3 million women and 835,000 men are physically assaulted by an intimate partner annually in the United States.

Today, it's not uncommon for fathers seeking sole custody in a contested case to prevail at least 50 percent of the time. And Dad is asking for joint or primary custody more and more: Over the past decade, the number of fathers awarded custody of their children has doubled, according to the latest data. In the current generation of dads, gender doesn't dictate who changes a diaper or consoles an infant. And as fathers become more entrenched in their roles as cocaregiver, they're less willing to hand off that role when a marriage breaks down. Women are now also shelling out more child support and sometimes paying alimony.'

Taken from 'Working Mother'

Why no link? Does "Working Mother" link to a real study showing these 50/50 figures?

lord.jeff:I knew the whole feminism debate was getting rather absurd but I didn't think it would get this bad. This is just a cute story of a dad doing something nice for his daughter no feminism or any other agenda. Now can we all start doing the smart thing and go "Aww, what an awesome dad" and move on?

I agree. I didn't come here to read a whole bunch of feminist bashing. The video was very cute and should be taken as just that. Now, I just want to play Ocarina of Time as Sheik:)

Are you seriously arguing that those statistics show that women don't need extra protection compared to men? 1.3 million compared to 830.000.... Also I'm pretty sure it's illegal to beat anyone up dude. I nearly got arrested once for beating up a guy who attacked me at a taxi rank...before the cctv saved my ass.

57% isn't really anything to be worried about it's circumstantial at best. It used to be that women weren't even allowed to go to university. Looks like we have come a long way.

And it used to be that women got custody more but that's in the past :p (and also based on sexist attitudes against women that they should be a caregiver)

Also that's taken from a quote from a top lawyer that's the source ;).

Anyway, Nathan Drake has 3 games while Lara Croft has 10. Just what the hell are you trying to argue here?

That no one cares if a female character is replaced by a male. Did you forget already. Speaking of that Lara had a male protagonist usurp her for a while in Angel of Darkness. Exactly no fucks were given.

Sony published FF7 too. What does that have to do with anything?

The new Tomb Raider is also on the PS3. I just don't see where you get the idea that Lara Croft was replaced by Nathan Drake.

Anyway, Nathan Drake has 3 games while Lara Croft has 10. Just what the hell are you trying to argue here?

That no one cares if a female character is replaced by a male. Did you forget already. Speaking of that Lara had a male protagonist usurp her for a while in Angel of Darkness. Exactly no fucks were given.

Sony published FF7 too. What does that have to do with anything?

The new Tomb Raider is also on the PS3. I just don't see where you get the idea that Lara Croft was replaced by Nathan Drake.

Because they have influence over what they sell....

Uncharted was developed because Sony wanted something Tomb Raideresque but fresh. I though that was common knowledge.

Are you seriously arguing that those statistics show that women don't need extra protection compared to men? 1.3 million compared to 830.000.... Also I'm pretty sure it's illegal to beat anyone up dude. I nearly got arrested once for beating up a guy who attacked me at a taxi rank...before the cctv saved my ass.

57% isn't really anything to be worried about it's circumstantial at best. It used to be that women weren't even allowed to go to university. Looks like we have come a long way.

And it used to be that women got custody more but that's in the past :p (and also based on sexist attitudes against women that they should be a caregiver)

Also that's taken from a quote from a top lawyer that's the source ;).

No, women don't deserve special laws. As you pointed out, there are laws on the books against beating people up and any group (gender, race) getting special laws is discriminatory by definition.

We aren't talking about what "used to be", we are talking about now and 57% would matter if men were the majority.

Prove to me that men get custody 50% of the time. So far I have seen no proof. A TOP LAWYER...LOL. Does the TOP LAWYER have any statistics to back up his mouth?

Sony published the old Tomb Raider franchise... they wanted something fresh for the PS3. It got sold to Crystal Dynamics they made a new game.

I thought that was kind of obvious.

That no one cares if a female character is replaced by a male. Did you forget already. Speaking of that Lara had a male protagonist usurp her for a while in Angel of Darkness. Exactly no fucks were given.

Sony published FF7 too. What does that have to do with anything?

The new Tomb Raider is also on the PS3. I just don't see where you get the idea that Lara Croft was replaced by Nathan Drake.

Because they have influence over what they sell....

Uncharted was developed because Sony wanted something Tomb Raideresque but fresh. I though that was common knowledge.

Are you seriously arguing that those statistics show that women don't need extra protection compared to men? 1.3 million compared to 830.000.... Also I'm pretty sure it's illegal to beat anyone up dude. I nearly got arrested once for beating up a guy who attacked me at a taxi rank...before the cctv saved my ass.

57% isn't really anything to be worried about it's circumstantial at best. It used to be that women weren't even allowed to go to university. Looks like we have come a long way.

And it used to be that women got custody more but that's in the past :p (and also based on sexist attitudes against women that they should be a caregiver)

Also that's taken from a quote from a top lawyer that's the source ;).

No, women don't deserve special laws. As you pointed out, there are laws on the books against beating people up and any group (gender, race) getting special laws is discriminatory by definition.

We aren't talking about what "used to be", we are talking about now and 57% would matter if men were the majority.

Prove to me that men get custody 50% of the time. So far I have seen no proof. A TOP LAWYER...LOL. Does the TOP LAWYER have any statistics to back up his mouth?

Women clearly need special laws if violence is that skewed against them. That's what equality means. Making things equal. Also 'Don't deserve' why don't we deserve extra protection that we need that's a pretty loaded thing to say.

I'm pretty sure 57% is fine. It's never going to be perfectly 50% that would be really surprising as people make personal choices that skew the numbers either way.

Are you seriously arguing that those statistics show that women don't need extra protection compared to men? 1.3 million compared to 830.000.... Also I'm pretty sure it's illegal to beat anyone up dude. I nearly got arrested once for beating up a guy who attacked me at a taxi rank...before the cctv saved my ass.

57% isn't really anything to be worried about it's circumstantial at best. It used to be that women weren't even allowed to go to university. Looks like we have come a long way.

And it used to be that women got custody more but that's in the past :p (and also based on sexist attitudes against women that they should be a caregiver)

Also that's taken from a quote from a top lawyer that's the source ;).

No, women don't deserve special laws. As you pointed out, there are laws on the books against beating people up and any group (gender, race) getting special laws is discriminatory by definition.

We aren't talking about what "used to be", we are talking about now and 57% would matter if men were the majority.

Prove to me that men get custody 50% of the time. So far I have seen no proof. A TOP LAWYER...LOL. Does the TOP LAWYER have any statistics to back up his mouth?

Women clearly need special laws if violence is that skewed against them. That's what equality means. Making things equal. Also 'Don't deserve' why don't we deserve extra protection that we need that's a pretty loaded thing to say.

I'm pretty sure 57% is fine. It's never going to be perfectly 50% that would be really surprising as people make personal choices that skew the numbers either way.

Interesting that you automatically assume the lawyer is a he...

Women deserve EQUAL protection, not extra protection. I mean, you do want equality don't you? You don't get it by asking for more than the other side. You are basically saying "I deserve more cheeseburgers because in the past women got fewer cheeseburgers". Equality will never happen that way.

So, about the lawyer, male or female...any stats to back up her/his opinion?