The Married Man Thirstzone

One of the more amusing private pains-turned-public spectacle to leak out of an internet pustule recently graced the combox of Reddit (/r/relationship). A sexually deprived married man (but I repeat myself) crafted a meticulous spreadsheet documenting the number of times his wife denied him sex and the excuses she gave each time. He then emailed this “unspread”sheet to his wife while she was away on business (red flag right there). She went public with it, hoping to both shame her thirsty hubby and to trawl for advice from male feminists that would rub the fur of her hamster with the grain.

at least she didn’t use “i have a headache”

For those keeping score, that’s three marital congresses out of twenty-eight attempts, for an 11% successful lay ratio.

An 11% lay ratio is pretty good for the average single beta male picking up girls (1 out of 10 approaches yields sex), but horrible for a married man who pledged his freedom, natural polygynous urge, and HALF to a woman who presumably loves her husband unto death, and who tacitly agreed by signing the marriage contract to offer her body on a regular basis to him.

But as visitors to Chateau Heartiste know, marriage is no respite from the perpetually clanking meat machine of the sexual market. If you recline into complacently dull beta maleness, you will lose your wife’s desire to please you as readily as you would lose a girlfriend’s, or a fling’s, desire. Worse, if you make the mistake of thinking that marriage will energize your wife’s sexual cravings beyond the limp gestures she had exhibited toward you pre-marriage, you’ll learn soon enough that the line that is dotted is not the ‘gine that is prodded.

No marriage contract in the world is sufficiently coercive to wrest sexual desire from the limbic node of a woman’s arousal center. Sexual desire is an animal instinct that predates legal fictions or social expectation. If the animal slumbers, “talking it out” or making it promises won’t rouse it to rutting; the animal must be confronted on its own terms, with equally primal cues that waken its instinct to mate.

The trope of the married man reduced to begging for sex from his wife stricken with yet another “headache” is a stereotype for a reason. These things hardly ever materialize out of thin air. But exactly how many married men labor in the purgatory known as the thirstzone? Numbers are hard to come by, although General Social Survey wizards have played the contrarian and dug up data suggesting married men have slightly more sex on average than unmarried men.

The problem with that survey data, beyond the inherent flaws of self-reporting and social expectation bias (and burning shame), is that the huge swell of omega and lesser beta single men who suffer involuntary celibate lives greatly skews the stats to promote an illusion that married men enjoy a cornucopia of sex (with one woman, let it be reminded). This incel ballast must be jettisoned to get a truer picture of what kind of sex lives married men actually enjoy. If the typical married man gets laid once per month (as our pubic flogging victim above has documented), then a more accurate assessment of his bounty would come from comparison to unmarried men who aren’t hopeless sex market rejects.

Compared to an incel, once per month married sex sounds like a pretty good deal. Compared to single men with girlfriends, fuck buddies, and flings tossed in for flavor, once per month sex sounds like painful blue balls. Ask any single man what a year-long relationship with a hot girlfriend is like, and he’ll tell you it’s a copulation carnival. His married buddies will turn green with envy.

As often surfaces on megafeminist sites like Reddit, hackneyed hackers and bromide belchers rush to fill the void of useful advice with Hivemind-approved diagnoses that abjure the wife of even the tiniest bit of responsibility for her role in her husband’s desperate sexual deprivation. Two common refrains — the husband isn’t doing enough to “support” his wife, and the wife has “low libido” — receive rounds of applause from the benighted.

These are handy rationalizations without a scintilla of realistic relevancy. In the real world, husbands who support the shit out of their wives are often less sexually rewarded than husbands who follow a program of benevolent sexism. And no scientist has yet, to my satisfaction, proven that there is an epidemic of pathologically low libido among married women. What is much more likely is that married men are, or become, less sexually stimulating to their wives, and the infamous “low libidio” of their wives is nothing more than selective female libido. Divorcee tell-alls revel in confessions of rejuventated sex lives once the beta provider hubby package was sent adrift.

A married man stuck in the thirstzone is not without options. Mistresses have traditionally been outlets for such men, and the culture used to give a wink and a nod to such arrangements, because the culture used to have a healthy and normal appreciation and acceptance of innate sex differences, before everything turned to poopytalk and hamster fuel.

There, too, is the advice offered by this very outpost of recivilization: A dab of dread will make legs spread. The poor sexless husband who attempted to shame his wife into fulfilling his most basic need in a marriage has, by accounts, ended all contact with her. Radio silence, while not the ideal solution to such crises of the cunt, is better than abject mewling and prone apologia. It has, at the least, made his wife think so hard about her lack of desire for her husband that she has taken to an internet forum full of spergs to find serenity now.

Dread game works, but only if the timing and execution occur before betatization has metastasized. A husband who repulses his wife is in a sorry position from which no remedy will work within a time frame not measured in years. The unspreadsheet man had undoubtedly been suffering months, perhaps years, of sexual isolation from his wife before he became so desperate that he felt it necessary to painstakingly chronicle his pain and accost her with it while she was at a hotel bar thinking about unleashing her inner bed fiend with a business associate.

At that late stage, any active effort to reverse his misfortune would be perceived as spite by his carnally estranged wife, stemming from a place of hurt and neediness. Perception is king in the mating arena, and butthurtness is kryptonite to women’s horny levels. The proper dose of dread needed to be delivered earlier, under circumstances less likely to be confused for vengeance.

The most effective punishment for a sexually withdrawing wife is punishment that can be construed as inadvertent. A woman is validated equally by intentional punishment as by intentional reward; both tell her “I’m so desired I rouse my husband to flattery and to retribution.” And a validated woman is an unpliable woman.

But punishment that appears almost “off-hand”, or apathetic and callous, is gold. This is the kind of punishment of female misbehavior (and, yes, denial of historically regarded marital duties counts as misbehavior) that strikes wee hamster nerves. It’s the punishment of indifference that follows when a husband’s mind has started wandering to thoughts of other women. The classic “late night phone call to wife with girls laughing in the background” ploy is an example of indifference punishment.

Wives can handle being punished when it validates their higher status. Cause-and-effect kneejerk punishment won’t rattle their self-possession or shake them into suddenly renewed desire. But no woman, wifed up or not, can handle being an afterthought to her man without compensating for her perceived demotion with reinvigorated lust.

This type of “punishment by gradually escalated indifference” of wayward wives/girlfriends — what a reader suggested can be called the “De-escalation Ladder” — will feature in a future post.

Game works wonders on strangers, or the occasional acquaintance, since the female mind loves to fill in informational gaps with their fantasies of choice. However, a married man has a lot less ” mystery going for him “, and needs to run game a lot harder. Isn’t it smarter to take the path of least resistance and not get married at all ?

you can’t choose your mate wisely till you get experience and by the time you realize it is a racket it is too late to not get the negative effects of fucking up
unless you don’t play the game
there is no win

if a husband has to compete for the wife’s attention against her job, her co-workers, her girlfriends, family, and the kids, especially after he himself is exhausted after working all day, no one is going to get serviced by anyone. this is modern marriage, and it’s why it doesn’t work.
a person only has enough energy to focus on a few things each day – ideally a woman can focus on the home, herself, her children, and her husband. add any more on top of that and something will suffer.

White women’s increasing sexlessness over the past 15+ years – as shown by radically decreasing sexual frequency, decreasing age of menopause, and decreasing fertility – is something that is FINALLY getting some attention around the internet.

The figures are ASTOUNDING in terms of the plummeting sexual frequency of the population. Even more astounding is that these people don’t even WANT to fuck.

But these SWPL phonies still try to pose as sex goddesses and their beta orbiters keep deluding themselves that things will turn around if they double-down on the American ways.

I believe that these trends towards dried up private parts reverse (mostly) if people get healthy (I recommend the paleo diet) and, of course, if people understand that all the social structures preached to them by the USA government and media are the exact opposite of the truth.

Interesting studies David. I think bad diet is a big factor. The modern diet is terrible and very deplete of correct nutrients. I agree a paleo or at least traditional diet is one of the best steps to take to improve hormone balance and fertility.
Also consider women’s roles have changed so much. More and more women are working men’s jobs, which they are not designed for, and this is too much stress for them. Stress is known to alter hormone levels in women and decrease fertility.
I think bad Spiritual and mental health is a factor also, the body is very smart and women who are not ready or prepared/fit to raise one might struggle more with conception.

I also reccomend for all women to read “Taking Charge of Your Fertility” by Toni Weschler, and absolutely to read “Childbirth with out fear”, by Grantley Dick-Read. Childbirth without fear is essential to read for every woman. Also eat many good fats. My sister is currently 7 months pregnant, and her and her husband concieved after only 1 month. My oldest sister has 5 babies and concieved fast, 5 beautiful healthy babies all eating high fat traditional diets.

The men’s plummetting testosterone is no surprise when taking in to consideration estrogens in food, obese women, and stress from feminism. Also maybe if husbands are deprived of sex with wives, their bodies sense less need for as much testosterone. (A theory?) And low sperm count directly correlates to low testosterone, if there not as much testosterone to fortify the testes, naturally less sperm will be created.

Stargate SG-1, Season 4, Episode 16, “2010”, written by Brad Wright, and premiered on January 12, 2001, is, without a doubt, the single greatest piece of theatrical art ever perfomed in my lifetime. Maybe even the single greatest [and certainly the most prophetic] piece of art, encompassing all art forms.

David, I have said it before and will say it again. Please start writing your own blog. You would have many subscribers. Or maybe none. People don’t want to know the truth.
I’ve said it before, and will say it again. Women use sex to secure relationships, financial security and family. It is a currency and women’s high intensity, low frequency, hypergamous sex drives complement an uncommitted alpha’s sex drive perfectly.
Thanks for the link. I, too, am fascinated with the biological changes we are seeing, particularly premature ovarian reserve failure.

What’s most interesting to me is that when given a black and white choice between careers or homelife, women will opt out of sex, family, and relationships, completely. This is most evident in Japan where long work hours are the norm and working mothers are discouraged (75% leave the workforce after their first child). So women are choosing financial independence over children. Many identify as asexual. The same thing is happening here, but we have more balance in the sense that women are encouraged to “have it all.” http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/NC13Dh01.html

…We know, for instance, in Caesar’s day of forty-five patricians, only one of whom is represented by posterity when Hadrian came to power. The Aemilii, Fabii, Claudii, Manlii, Valerii, and all the rest, with the exception of the Cornelii, have disappeared.

Augustus and Claudius raised twenty-five families to the patriciate, and all but six of them disappear before Nerva’s reign. Of the families of nearly four hundred senators recorded in 65 A.D. under Nero, all trace of a half is lost by Nerva’s day, a generation later.

And the records are so full that these statistics may be assumed to represent with a fair degree of accuracy the disappearance of the male stock of the families in question. Of course members of the aristocracy were the chief sufferers from the tyranny of the century, but this havoc was not all wrought by delatores and assassins. The voluntary choice of childlessness accounts largely for the unparalleled condition…

Gibbon was an 18th Century nihilist. And lead didn’t become an issue until about 30 or 40 years ago. But Tenney Frank could see what was in the historical record, and it horrified him – he could see that the nobility had become so drunk with power and with hedonistic pursuits and with BOREDOM that they simply quit having children altogether.

First, the testosterone study was conducted with men ages 45-79. Second, the CDC’s definition of “medical help to get pregnant” is broad — ranging from getting advice and infertility testing to artificial insemination.

I got to say I like reading the shit about rome
””””””””
From Varro (II. i. 26 and x. 6)
and Columella (I. 8, 9) it has been well known that slaves on farms and pasturelands
were expected to marry and have offspring. The Romans considered this
good economy, both because the stock of slaves increased thereby and because
the slaves themselves remained better satisfi ed with their condition.”””””’

again today isen’t that what a dude in massachussetts who has to pay alimony and child support become
a slave
eveythings the same really
but yea what i infer though is that the only thing that really matters in our lives is what we do with our lives
i’m pretty sure a lot of those people worried bout the future of their family and such and then look one generation BOOM
nothing to remember them
so they got a rock with some writing great
so really its like find out what you like in life get yours try a bit to help the posterity but really make dam sure you have a good life
cause yea none of it gonna matter after you are dead

I appreciate all of the compliments. The world of endocrinology (studying glands and hormones) is truly fascinating, all the more so because there are tons of great tests – both rock solid clinical and epidemiological tests, as well as more fuzzy-but-intriguing evo-psycho pontificating.

For all men (and women) I just always recommend getting your hormones right.

“Low libido” may seem unreasonably blue pill to you, but it’s all too painful and very real. It’s called getting old.

You of all people who reference “the wall” know that youth and beauty indicate sex and fertility (and the overwhelming female desire to make whoopie). Those days for me seem over. My sex life with my husband married 15 years has always been explosive. Now in my late 30s, I’m lucky to even feel *slight* arousal before a blood moon. I’ve gone from one extreme to the other and I can only attribute it to hitting the wall. It seems impossible for me to feel sexy. I very much want intimacy with my husband again but the desire just isn’t there and it’s depressing. :(

I do work in a field that is related to this conversation. Your hormones are declining with age. Try these supps: DHEA, pregnenolone, and Maca. Also, try to add resistance training to your workout. This will boost your testosterone and increase your sex drive. If nothing else, the maca will help.

Your libido is so hardwired to your vanity that I doubt you ever really bonded with your husband sexually – You’re probably just really good friends. Soon it won’t matter where he gets his gratification – just as long as it’s not you.

My hot girlfriend wants to bang so much it gets tiresome. She literally wants to fuck every night. She “ASKS” me to fuck her. I’m like an old man just wanting to watch tv and rest after a long days work. But when she presses hard enough I will pound her into the bed for a solid 20 minutes and then resume watching television. Sometimes when i’m complaining about how much she wants to bang I think of a married man like “Mr. Spreedsheet” guy.

Poor soul. What’s worse is that I bet his wife isn’t even hot and if he was to leave her she would never find commitment again from a man of decency. That’s how pathetic the guy is – he has the ultimate trump card which is divorce. Women think they win in divorce but almost all of them lose.

After all – nobody wants to commit to a mid 30’s or mid 40’s chick who has pumped out kids.

“If you’re husband doesn’t understand that you have a low libido, then he isn’t being a good mate. It’s his job to understand you. And it’s not like you’re keeping him from watching porn and masturbating.”

Marital sex has been reduced to the husband “watching porn and masturbating.”

They are childless, at least according to the account of this at Instapundit. Actually IMO this whole catastrophe has worked out favorably for the husband, gormless as he may be. No kids, she has a job, her post to Reddit makes it obvious he needs to dump her (yes I know, just the fact that she reads Reddit means she must be dumped) and in fact his very compilation of the spreadsheet probably shows he knew it was time to walk. Time to make a break at low cost.

If your woman is still going to the gym, then you better go ahead and assume that half of the guys there are sticking their dicks up her ass, and nowadays you better also assume that a quarter of the chicks there are fingering her.

When this whore in the Reddit spreadsheet story told her husband that she felt filthy when she came home from the gym, she was being TRUTHFUL – because she was coming home from the gym with other men’s semen in her rectum.

I would rather be married to a fat boo-hawg HB1 cow, who was faithful to me, than to any HB10 gym whore on the face of the earth. Never allow yourself to develop feelings for a gym whore. Never get into an LTR with a gym whore. And for the sake of God Almighty, NEVER MARRY A GYM WHORE!!!!!

There are 4 basic types of women at gyms:
The Workout Nazi, the Biggest Loser, the Teenage Athlete and the Gym Groupie.
Only the Gym Groupie goes there to hook up, and that only with guys who are high up in the established power structure at the gym, such as owner, manager, perhaps a PT or the long-time resident body builders who basically live there.

ZShane’s point is perfectly legit if you hold women to premodern standards of modesty: don’t show skin, don’t talk to unrelated men, don’t leave the house alone for frivolous reasons. And most importantly, this modesty is inner driven; they are happy and comfortable that way.

This standard goes along with virgin marriage and early childbearing.

His point only sounds far out because by historic -White- standards, modern women carry themselves like whores.

Right, but of course none of these burn calories and build muscle as efficiently as weight training. A women-only gym would end up being 90% cardio and 10% weights because that’s what women want, which means women who know what they’re doing would be back at the men’s gym.

[CH: yes weight lifting is best, but many women avoid it for both stupid and silly (if understandable) reasons. one, they think lifting will make them “too big”. nonsense. this will never happen to women who aren’t juicing. women don’t have enough T to get YOOGE or ripped from lifting. but they will get lean and toned, and stronger. two, they feel shy or insecure about working out in a roomful of grunting men. i get it, but they should know most big guys in the weight room are very encouraging of women who join their ranks. and despite overblown myths about intrusive meatheads staring at girls as they squat, i don’t notice a whole lot of that going on. most guys who are serious about lifting are too absorbed in their pain and sweat to hover around hot chicks in their vicinity.

three, women may not like lifting as much as men do. this is the only legit explanation for the paucity of women in the weight room i can buy. as the sex with naturally lower levels of T and ambition and desire to get physically strong, it’s no surprise most women prefer dancing aerobics. i don’t think this aversion can be resolved, because it flows from an inherent sex difference. but female-only weight room clubs could be a start.

regardless, any effort women take to get in better shape should NEVER be discouraged, like ZS is doing here. yoga is still a hell of a lot better than fattening up on the couch watching the boob tube.]

If she has an insatiable desire to work out, then her husband can get some selectorized weight stacks and some bicycle machines and some wrestling mats off of Craigslist and set her up a gym for her IN THEIR BASEMENT.

CH: Re weights. You’re right on all three fronts as to why women don’t like them. #1 can be overcome with education and #3 can be overcome with willpower (and an understanding of #1). But #2 is the trickiest. I don’t like the weight areas either, it’s all men and it’s intimidating. Also, girls tend to like to exercise in groups, even if it’s rigorous exercise with no time/breath to talk.

I chose my gym because it has an actual weightlifting class. That solves the group problem and the all-guy problem; 99% of the class is female (no surprise). It’s too bad more gyms don’t offer this type of class.

I think the more women have sex, the more they want it. This is reason #673 women should just submit when their partner wants it even if she’s not in the mood. Unlike men, we’re often not in the immediate mood for sex. But let him get you in the mood.

owing to sex differences in basal libido strength (men generally want to fuck more often than do women) there will always be a slight skew in married men wanting more sex than their wives want. this is natural (and would be solved in a state of nature by the man acquiring sex partners from outside his primary relationship, if the option were open to him). every wife has a legit “headache” moment once in a blue moon. The deeper problem is evident when those blue moon downtimes increase to weekly and then daily downtimes. when a husband has started making spreadsheets of all the times he gets the bedroom backturn, it’s time to reconsider the durability and legitimacy of his marriage.

@Amy Only once did my crazy ex gf try to deny sex. She was always up for it. On her birthday–and three days after she’d sheepishly admitted she went out with a “friend”—beta white knight trying to get into her pants—did she say “I’m on my period”.

This was bizarre. I said “Do I need to start fucking other girls?”

We fucked. Two weeks later it was over.

So in some ways very hard on me in the aftermath.

In other ways…I avoided the “thirstzone’….and by standing up to this, albeit in a caveman way…I drew the line.

After that I withdrew. Then she broke up. Now interestingly enough she’s with that shlub.

This troll is a perfect example of Gamma behavior – a bunch of weird juvenile jokes that only amuse him and are completely uncalibrated. Unfunny and a waste of time. Probably even replying was a waste of my time, but Jesus, I enjoy this blog and idiot trolls are starting to ruin it.

This GB detox meme is a running joke here at the chateau, and much appreciated by most of us… think of it as Monty Pythonesque tom-foolery with a touch of the “Up Yours” to the hamstering that goes on with most of the distaff side of the chateau.

If this is the way she is at 26, he’s got a hard road ahead if he sticks around. I would say he is within his rights to get a girlfriend on the side. And I’d certainly think twice about having children with her.

In my culture women KNOW that they must have sex with their husbands. We know our husbands could stray if we do not. If they are too good men stray, we are still being unfair by putting them in path of temptation.
Why get married if you can not have sex? Marriage is a healthy and correct place for men and women to satisfy their desire. (and of course to have babies.)

From what I have heard, women’s sex drives wanes much early than men’s which makes sense from biological perspective(menopause means a woman is no longer fertile and surely higher sex drive is correlated to a higher fertility.)

But even when taken in to perspective differince in libido’s, it is still wrong to deprive the partner of his needs. It is selfish, and if a woman (or man) is not willing to fulfil their spouse needs, they should not marry.

What a man must do in that situation? I do not know. It is really is very sad. But I know there also women who keep fit and beautiful, who’s husbands deprive them. (Usually because they are gay or have misconception of Christian doctrine, but it is rare I think.) And from Christian angle, it is actually a sin. .

It is a sin, and not ethical to deprive one’s spouse of basic needs. If a man is a Christian, he can go to his Priest to talk about such things, and the Priest can talk to the wife and tell her she is shirking her duty.

If she does not respond, there needs to be some measure of control taken, but it does make it difficult with the “spousal rape” laws now.

Orthodox and Catholic have much lower rate of divorce! (Or “annulment” in Catholic Church.) But even if Orthodox does manage to obtain a divorce, it is a long process and both are counseled and helped by the Church first. If spouses are unwilling to work on their marriage, and divorce, they are then excommunicated from the Orthodox Church for some time.

A good friend of mine husband left her 2 years ago. He was having a affair with their neighbor. She went through such stress in that time. He left her for a obese woman and lived some doors away! And did not go to see his own young son often and the boy’s school work suffered. My friend is a good woman who goes every day to Church, and the Priest told her she should wait for her husband to come home. He returned home some months ago and asked for her forgiveness. They are now living together and rebuilding their marriage. She even made many excuses for him, believing he had been afflicted by some evil demons. (She is a very simple village woman.) Bless her.

Along with her forgiving tender heart, the Priest saved that marriage. Now there is one less child with out father. Children need their fathers around.
So there is no reason to not go to your Priest or Spiritual father if there is something wrong with the marriage(like being denied of intimacy with your wife.) That is why our Priests and Spiritual fathers are for, to help us. And what you tell them is confidential. If she is a Christian woman she risks being excommunicated if she does not comply and try to work at the marriage.

And that is why Christian marriages work better, we have the Scripture that tells us clear, to not deny each other. ( 1 Corinthians 7:5.)
I do not understand why non religious people get married if they do not consider it a sacrament, especially with out protection of the Church with the risk marriage is to men in this time.

Zombie Shane, none. I am engaged. God willing I hope to have babies soon. If all goes well I would hope for 1 every 2 years, (9 months pregnant, 9 months breastfeeding, 6 months to concieve.) I think that is a good time frame. God willing.:D .Do you have babies? If no, how many do you want?

My current squeeze had her pregnant ‘bestie’ over last night, I made it a point to kino her immediately by going in for the can I feel it kicking routine. The girl was exceptionally attractive and flirty. Nowadays I set a very early precedent of dread from the get go. As you said, there is no coming back from a situation gone too far beta. It’s all in or nothing from the beginning. My behavior gets many strange looks. Don’t care

I read about this sorry tale on another site, can’t remember which but the comments were interesting. Not one person suggested that maybe she should just ‘grin and bear it’ and offer him slightly more regular sex as an option. It was all ‘kick him out, divorce-his-ass, you go grrl’ predictable hamsterizations, Women these days have little to no interest in working at relationships/marriages if problems appear. It’s always about ‘not settling for less’ whilst getting into another relationship with another (usually badly chosen) man immediately, being cheered on by her friends and colleagues.

If your wife performed her wifely duties, never. Sadly, women these days are no longer considered part of a man’s chattel, so you’ve gotta take matters into your own hands. Put your hand on your pants and grab… your wallet. Hit up a “professional”. Now, flash that cash and get some gash!

Why jerk it yourself when there’s a willing woman to do it for you? Do it as often as you can afford to. Just make sure you stay strapped ‘cuz STIs are a real party pooper.

Extraordinary timing as this guy’s spreadsheet would look very similar to mine if I kept one.

And it completely validates a little experiment I’ve been running. Was traveling for the past several weeks. Initiated very little contact with the wife. Maybe an occasional phone call, but kept it short. Her emails become more frequent and detailed. I give her one word, maybe one sentence responses… “Cool” or “That’s great.”

Get home this weekend and my friend, her and I head out for a drink. I’m aloof as a mofo, but not in a butthurt way. Chat her up and engage with her, laugh, joke, etc. but get up occasionally and wander up to the bar to chat with the hot little bartenders. At one point, I pull the bartender close and whisper in her ear, nothing sexual, just basic chit chat.

My friend is in on my little experiment and tells me later that my wife was watching me like a hawk. The female bartenders and I are lightly flirting. One of them tells me to come by tomorrow. Wife hears this and I catch her out of the corner of my eye with her arms crossed in front of her and staring daggers at the bartender.

A few minutes later, wife leans over and whispers sexily in my ear as I’m checking email “You are so getting some pussy tonight.” (this from a wife who never initiates). I look up at her casually, smirk, say “Cool” and go back to checking my email.

Two lessons: 1) Absence makes the heart grow fonder — especially if she has no idea what you’re up to when you’re traveling. 2) Dread works wonders, but the offhand, apathetic advice is key. Instilling dread can’t appear intentional.

The intermingling layers of *wrong* in this made me physically ill, no fucking joke; even more so because you sincerely view this as a victory. What you showcase as proof that ‘dread’ works has actually served to ensure that I will never, ever lock myself into a contractual marriage, ever.

seemed like that to me too. whether he is making headway or not, i don’t think that’s the way most women speak. at least not the wifely ones. i could be wrong because women these days are a lot different than they used to be but i certainly wouldn’t want my girl talking to me like that. it’s trashy.

The important thing is that your behaviour has initiated a positive response from your chosen life partner. That’s a victory regardless of what these unmarried guys say. It’s hard to dig yourself out of a beta-hole and you’ve taken the first important step – props to you!

Wolfie I tend to disagree. I train all my women to speak to me in that manner because…well, I like it sometimes, and it exerts a small level of control. very small.

30 years ago I went all betastic and watched my marriage explode. It was a very painful lesson.

Since then, it’s not like I don’t give a fuck, I just give very little of a fuck. I demand and expect certain behavior from a female, I am explicit on what these behaviors are, and I demand compliance.

In LTR’s I’ve found that it’s hard for weaker chicks to hold fast, and they are jettisoned with extreme prejudice. But those who can hack usually turn out to be a great source of amusement and on demand sex.

Many of them can be taught. A lot can’t hold their teaching though. Catapault the weaklings and find fresh recruits.

True that…I travel for business all of the time…depends on what she does for a living but 10 days is very rare, usually three days and then I have my honey meet me out for a couple of more days. That is most likely what she is doing.

I have a friend who always seemed to be pleading for sex with whatever chic he was with at the time. Most were unattractive from my point of view. I never understood this part of him. I eventually just chalked it up to mother issues. Most of the chics were older than him. Other friends were/are like me in that the chic wants sex more than we do. We have other interests and chics get jealous of the amount of time we devote to these interests. If a man finds he needs to beg for sex from HIS chic, it’s time to find another one or live a thirsty, unfulfilled life. Cheers.

Alright, this’ll make me late to get the boy, so I’ll try to make this short.

I just got through with a weekend of purported fun. I’ll summarize by saying it involved an art museum, decent hotel, and plenty of hiking through some pretty landscape, i.e.: girly shit.

So, first morning, wife wakes, heads off to gym, doesn’t wake me. Apparently, I was fast asleep and she didn’t want to wake me. Despite the gym clothes I packed. Yeah. Next morning, I wake and generally dabble with email and newspaper, waiting for her to arise. When she wakes, she’s rapidly changing into clothes for the day. Similar shit transpires the two nights previous these mornings. So, as she’s dressing, I call her on this particular turn in our romantic weekend. My words, exactly, were, “So, I guess that’s the weekend?”

My wife, being more clever than most women, pauses and cogitates this comment for a moment, then responds with usual hamster-wheel excuses for generally being unavailable for the part of romance that I consider worthwhile, none of which I allow as anything more than plausible denial. Ultimately, my expectation is that she put out. And, no, I’m not particularly in the mood now, since you’re clearly of a different mind, and I’m just not going to suddenly become interested because I’ve decided to indicate that I’m angry.

So, about 16 hours later (and a polite car-ride and several side-trips later) her behavior improves, I get what I want, and, frankly, she gets what she wants, too.

All this to say: in a marriage, it’s important to play dread game with VERY close proximity. Distance does not make the heart fonder – it provides an excuse to call mothers, sisters, friends, and – if your marriage is particularly fuckless – lovers for an empathetic hearing. Never let her out of your sight, maintain closeness with KINO, but also maintain a simmering emotional displeasure that she can sense rattling the lid of your cauldron. Ultimately, she’s obliged to make recompense. Failing that, the marriage is done anyway.

Also: go to war carefully. Women hold grudges for decades. NEVER BE WRONG.

Grudges for decades, indeed… their memories are so good, they even remember things that never happened, and can recall the most minor of details (whether real or imagined) from decades-old events in order to derail a man’s thought processes in re the current argument.

I can attest to that. My last blue pill LTR had several instances of that. Once I got my thoughts in order and did the autopsy I realized that half the shit she bitched about didn’t happen and the other half happened with previous stunt cocks more than ten years ago.

If only my wife were so stupid, I’d have an easier time. But, alas, she remembers well my errors. Hence a seldom used trick in marriage: agree and amplify her wisdom. “Yes, dearest, you were right: I should have sold the old car and bought a new car ten years ago, which is why I’m asking you about this car RIGHT NOW.”

Take it from a late 50s married guy in good shape: Before I finally took up with a mistress (with my wife’s knowledge), once a month had turned into once a year or even less. After a while you stop caring. Now *she* has made hints about being intimate again, but you can’t forget the years of gratuitously denied sex. My guess is that my experience is far from uncommon. I think that most married men over 40 are slightly mad from sexual deprivation.

35 is too young for terminal velocity Wall impact. Most women don’t become sexually worthless until around age 45-50. After 50, no man truly wants to fuck her. However, 35 is on the downslope of a woman’s beauty fade. At that age she’s rapidly picking up speed and the Wall starts to loom over the horizon.

The little girl won’t even own it now. She deleted the post (or as much of it as she could).

Don’t worry, honey. The Internet is forever. Your every keystroke is being logged by Google and the NSA. Nobody will ever let you forget this. You’ve humiliated yourself in front of the world. How’s that social media whoring feel now?

He should have stepped in front of her TV and shoved his cock down her throat. Then carried her to their bedroom and fucked his pent-up passions into her defiant quim.

There is no such thing as marital rape, it’s as nonsensical a construct as an alive corpse or hot ice. The moment they married she granted ongoing consent. Headaches and ‘feeling tired’ are nothing more than shit tests to see if he is man enough to TAKE what he needs. It is beyond undignified and emasculated for a man to wait for permission, especially from his wife of all people.

All he had to do was overpower her and their relationship would have been much happier.

Since you asked for General Social Survey wizards, per the GSS the median straight, married man under 40, for years 2006-2012, has sex weekly and the mean is probably closer to 2-3 times. For the never marrieds, the median is also weekly, but there’s a much larger drop off below this. This seems to support what you’re saying.

One confounding factor, however, is that the GSS doesn’t have a good way (that I’m aware of) to filter out the guys who are living together with a girl and de facto married (these tend to be younger as well and thus more likely to have girls who are down for frequent rolls in the hay). There is the RELGENDR variable which seems pretty good except they only asked the question to a few dozen people, making the sample sizes hopelessly small.

Also only about 11% of married men in this group have sex monthly or less.

I guess the Audacious Epigone will probably respond eventually, too, but since he is not a “hopeless* sex market reject” like myself, he’s probably off with his wife right now or something.

*Kidding about the “hopeless” part…otherwise I wouldn’t be reading this.

Heh to all those commenters criticising his openness, honesty and bluntness (With evidence) of bringing forward their relationship issues to her, I wonder how they would react if this was flipped.

Imagine it, her keeping a list of all the times she wanted to have a conversation with him, and he wouldn’t reciprocate, especially when she needed to blab on about her friend’s gossip, distant family’s mundane activities, shopping or what her co-worker had said that day etc. Noting down all the instances of “I’m busy”, “Not right now”, or “Christ woman I’ve just this minute got in from a long day of work”, or even more amusing, “Shut up, I’m watching football”. People would be tearing him to shreds for ignoring her needs, not interacting with her as a hustband should and praising her for coming forward with this, rather than “suffering in silence”.

She’s away on “business” and he hasn’t gotten any in weeks? I got news for him, she’s being plowed six ways to Sunday by the guy he doesn’t know about who is on the trip with her. I know, since I’ve been that guy with the married woman more times than not. One of the things these women LOVE to do is to call their husband when I’m putting it to her. They love it when you c*m inside of them when he’s on the other end. Don’t know why that is such a turn on for them, but hey, I couldn’t care less. As long as I’m the one getting trim, that’s all I care about. And they all have reasons for why they do it – usually blaming their husband in some way or another. From my perspective, he’s an idiot so why shouldn’t I enjoy his wife? She’s a freebie for me – low investment, lots of return.

The best thing this guy could do is to get a younger one on the side. Married women are fun, as they are easy – hubby acts as a safety net for her to live out all of her fantasies, since he’s there for any “accidents”…

You game ALL women, especially your wife. Every man should learn to “express his needs” without whining or sounding weak or overly emotional or unsteady. Plus, emailing her that list was a passive aggressive, cluelessly beta ploy. Sad.

Mr Reddit is at least smart enough [and ballsy enough] to listen to that voice in the back of his head which is whispering to him, “Whoa, dude, sumpin is wrong here. Marriage ain’t sposed to be like this. WTF?”

I took my wife of 20 years out to dinner and drinks to try the whole wife as social proof angle. I am still very much lacking in the balls department, and didn’t succeed in flirting with any of the girls, but at least I talked to them, made eye contact, and stared longingly and unapologetically at their tiny little asses. It was a baby step, and a baby step is better than nothing. There are more girls per square foot at that restaurant than anywhere else I could try, and I love their food.

I’m not sure if I’m better or worse off going out with the wife. The girls had girl talk about all the intricate details of which kind of mixed foo foo drink is more exciting than which other kind of mixed foo foo drink, and they seemed to be enjoying their chat. The girl with the tiny ass seemed to accept my wife as a human being, and a girl, rather than a repulsive blob creature. (Friend girl met my wife face to face, and afterwards said, “She’s not THAT bad.”)

Afterward, she was like, “Did you like how I talked about ‘my’ kids and never mentioned that we were married? I pretended to just be a friend of yours hanging out.”

That really isn’t what I was after, but when I think about it, going with my wife’s instincts on this seems like the reasonable way to go after all. She’s a girl. She talked to that other girl. They interfaced with each other seamlessly, and the other girl was comfortable. If I had had the balls to step in and touch her hand, flirt with her, who knows. Maybe it would have been too weird, maybe it would have worked.

Either way, I don’t have the balls, and that’s my problem. I justify not going after my wife aggressively by constantly looking at her in the worst light possible, but the truth is I don’t go after any girl aggressively. I’m waiting on her to make a move, and the only girls who make moves like that are strippers and whores.

My wife would please me sexually if she could, but she seriously can’t. She tried to get me off for 30 minutes the other day, and I ended up jerking off right in front of a willing woman, just to get the job done. Well, it was that or roll her over and fuck her, but why would I want to reward someone who was failing so miserably by giving her orgasms?

I need to figure out how to flirt with girls like the ones last night. I should make this restaurant my new home away from home. At least I finally found abundance. Evolving from a passive beta into Papa Boner under their nose might be the only way I can become Papa Boner. I have to risk poisoning that well. I can’t wait until I have skills before I try fishing there.

I orbited a friend girl who kept feeding me just enough hope that I couldn’t snap out of a fantasy of breaking out of the friend zone. I decided to try something radical and use my wife as social proof.

Girls want what other girls want. I figured it might nudge her off the fence showing that the girl I have would rather stand there looking at her nemesis and rubbing my ass than take a free house and 10 years of alimony payments.

It didn’t quite work, but it did show me how little I have to worry about my wife divorcing me. Now that I know this, I’m trying to figure out if there’s anything else I can do to make use of her.

She’s fat. She was a happy carefree party girl who got dumped by her alpha, and still laments him after 23 years of being with me. I have changed this from a marriage where she used to make Lorena Bobbet jokes regularly to one where she can’t get too much sex, but at the end of the day, she is still fat.

Being with a fat girl is not good for my inner game. I lack that sense of entitlement I need to get that elusive girl with a tiny ass and a tiny waist I have always craved so much. I go into full blown eunuch mode around girls like that. I shut down. I can’t flirt. All I can do is beta blather my way into their friend zone, if I even manage to talk to them at all.

I have always been more sociable when I was out with my wife. Being seen with a fat chick has a cost, but if it helps me be more sociable, it could be worth paying.

The jury is still out. Flirting, no, not remotely. Actually talking to hot girls, yes. Our waitress the other night was quite hot.

I’m trying to kill that brooding suicidal dark romantic Troubadour guy and reinvent myself as a carefree happy guy who leads with his dick. My wife loves it when I say, in a British accent, “Good evening darling, the name is Boner, Papa Boner.” It never gets old. I want to try the same shtick on cute girls and see if I get anywhere.

I need to start leading with my dick and stop thinking so damn much.

I think I need to switch to full on direct game, to stop giving myself room to hide in blather.

Anyway, whatever it is, the fact that it’s so far outside the box suits me. Not many guys are trying to use their wife of 20 years as a wing girl to fuck hotter younger women and getting away with it. I’ve got some really good dick here, and some really good man skills.

When I started, I was totally wooden and would hide every sign of possible sexual interest while talking to a girl.

I have graduated to showing sexual interest through body language, but I still can’t talk to them that way yet, and I have a lot of trouble touching them. I end up just prattling on, perpetually stuck in what Roosh calls elderly chat, and if I’m lucky, I end up in the friend zone.

I have a long way to go, but I haven’t fucked any ugly chicks or whores yet. I still have hope for myself.

As far as what’s up with my wife, I asked her if she is going through all this because I am awesome or because she is desperate, and her answer was, “Both, I guess.”

There you have it.

Incidentally, Troubadour is dead. I need to concentrate on following my dick, not my romantic heart. My wife laughs her ass off at this Papa Boner thing, and I bet if I get her laughing at Papa Boner in front of a cute waitress….

Since I’m staying, I need to focus on the bright side, and quit being some morose bitter fuck wallowing misery. That’s EXACTLY why I can’t get laid.

I have a different deal from most men, and yet I still have that whole shitty attitude of every other married guy you see who has just given up on life. It doesn’t matter how different my deal is if I’m just as run down and hopeless as every other pathetic middle aged married man trying to score college pussy in this town, and there are hundreds of us.

I have an absolute smorgasbord of college pussy here, if I can fix my attitude, I can be dining on some of that before winter break.

I think I took a major positive step in the right direction tonight. I saw a different world, because I went into the world as a happy guy strutting his stuff, instead of a morose bitter fuck desperate to validate himself through sex with a stranger.

My elder son had a pituitary tumor that suppressed his testosterone. I took a dose of his t gel and rubbed it on his Mom’s shoulder in a seeming act of affection—the Mom who says, “Hey, Ranger Rick, I had your kids. Now leave me alone.”

However, in a few days, she was as horny as a…well….something significantly horny. She also had developed a full mustache, and resembled Robert Goulet. So I mashed her face into the pillow. I draw the line at mustaches.

It’s good that this spreads the word to single guys that getting married isn’t the ticket to regular sex. When I was married it was the longest time I went without sex. And when you get married your wife becomes the sole legitimate person you can have sex with. So I had affairs and divorced my wife. Of course, I got screwed with property settlement, attorney fees, her debts, alimony, and child support.

I try to tell young single guys this kind of thing but they never listen. They all get married.

Sexual attraction could care less about commitments to be faithful, rings, ceremonies and how much time you have “in” with your woman.

Sexual attraction doesn’t take the kids into consideration and it could give a fuck less that you have a joint bank account.

Sexual attraction doesn’t care you get along great with her family or that you have a 30-year adjustable mortgage.

And like a total dick, attraction doesn’t care that I did everything right for the last two years. It wants to know what have I done lately? Unfortunately, attraction doesn’t accept excuses. But I was sick for a month. Too bad.

Sexual attraction is a selfish, mysterious feeling and taking it for granted for even one day is a bad idea. I respect attraction because when it’s gone, it’s ain’t coming back.

She Doesn’t Care:

Keeping up the sexual attraction and tension is your job alone. It’s up to you. You can’t leave it up to her. Even if in a moment of honesty she did agree that a sexual connection is indeed very fragile and needs constant upkeep, she is never going to agree to things like spending less time together to make that happen.

In other words, a womans agenda is in direct conflict with the ingredients for having a long lasting sexual connection. And she knows it. As such, she doesn’t really care if the attraction gets reduced. It’s just the cost of doing business.
That won’t stop her from blaming the loss of sexual attraction on you though.

This poor sap’s situation is the complete opposite of my last LTR. It was the missus coming to me with a list of all the times I didn’t want to have sex. She was terrible with facts and figures (like most women) but when it came to sex she could verbally spreadsheet every time I’d said no in recent memory. She would have had it twice a day if I’d catered to it.

“If you recline into complacently dull beta maleness, you will lose your wife’s desire to please you as readily as you would lose a girlfriend’s, or a fling’s, desire.”
Ain’t that the truth. There is no rest in the house of hamster. Either rule with red pill reality of perish.

I was seeing a girl for a while, a while being 5 or 6 dates, but she wasn’t putting out. On the late date, I had her spend the night, and she never went past any sort of make out. It was frustrating as hell. Ultimately, I saw the chase as fruitless and forgot about her.

For whatever reason, I hit her up recently and spent a day with her, to the same result. One small instance, however, let me see her for what she really was.

We were driving to get food, and she tossed her purse on my lap in the passenger seat. That move is a no-no, so I rummaged through her purse, and what did I find? Pills.

“Oh, what are these for? You’re not gonna snap on me if you don’t take them, are you?”

“Lol those are birth control pills.”

It suddenly came full circle for me, and I got her to chalk up the details.

“Oh… So who are you fucking?”

“They’re just for in case anything happens (yeah right).”

What I came to discover was that she was fucking an ex, because then it “wouldn’t count.” She didn’t want me being another notch.

The moral of the story is this, and it’s been said by others before me:

A girl is ALWAYS fucking somebody. Do what you can to make sure it’s you, otherwise invest nothing.

“I was seeing a girl for a while, a while being 5 or 6 dates, but she wasn’t putting out. On the late date, I had her spend the night, and she never went past any sort of make out. It was frustrating as hell. Ultimately, I saw the chase as fruitless and forgot about her”

I’ve lined up a date 2 and this is in the back of my own mind. Inexperienced girl who’s only had one serious boyfriend before and didn’t start dating till she was 23. Any tips on pushing for the lay anyone?

glad someone pointed out the obvious, disappointed in CH denizens for not having grasped it. she is getting dicked down on the side.

the most obvious tell (besides the one pity fuck every 2 weeks) is the “i feel skanky” and not showering 2x.
she might not respect you enough to fuck but she’ll clean out her gash unless she is one nasty smegma having bitch, or 3rd world w/ no pipes.

she didn’t just “get back from the gym”, she got back from riding chad thundercock.
her posting this on reddit is taking her cuckgame to another level.

Had that happen with a girl. Had a good connection and I was pushing hard. First date, makeout and got her shirt off.
Second, just a makeout.
Third, got her into my bed and went down on her for a while, but she threw her clothes back on once I reached in the condom drawer.
Fourth I said fuck it and made her buy me mexican food.
Fifth was her begging to come over to my house, I chewed her out and made her leave. Haven’t seen her since.

There are a few special ice queens who will tease you forever – learn to recognize them early and bail, bail, bail.

two dates of cock teasing and on the third date she had you going down on her but she had no interest in giving you any pleasure or satisfaction. she couldn’t even muster up enough kindness to repay you for pleasuring her.
there’s something really wrong with that picture. i would have to told her to get the f*ck out of my house right then and there and i wouldn’t have contacted her again.

I know this might sound stupid but I always have trouble gauging if I’m being too alpha or if I’m being too beta. My last year long relationship (or whatever the fuck it was) was the first one I’d be in since I knew game, and I think I maybe erred too much on the jerk side to the point where she just wanted to get some sort of upper hand…? For instance it’s been hella long since we talked last but the last time we hung out I did something nice with her….but that same night she (semi drunkenly) blew me and we had sex….? I guess that’s upper hand cause I did something nice for her? Idfk help?

@CH I need some more analysis on the poon commandment regarding “the golden ratio” initiate 2/3s as much. If you aren’t following that, then pump and dump?

Like if a girl literally says to you “I can’t just be your slam piece/fuck toy” youre probably doing too much dread? Cause she said that earlier in the relationship

If she uses the words “slam piece” or “fuck toy” in reference to herself, even with the “I can’t” qualifier, she has been those things before and is trying to rope-a-dope you into betaing up so she can derive self worth in proving to herself (and the previous dongs still floating around in her mind) that she can be more than a cumdump.

At which point, she’ll look for another dude to be a slam piece for because there is obviously something deficient in you for having seen worth in her where others see a pump and dump.

The golden rule: Betas always lose. Only apply beta when working on your Machiavellianism such as menstrual cycle game or throwing a personality curveball to keep her honest at the plate.

There is never too much alpha in this market. Alpha is essentially looking out for #1 via masculine dominance, outcome independence (or non-neediness), lacking a fear of failure.

Related ultimatum: It isn’t your job to progress things to LTR status. 10/10 times from what I’ve seen you’re shooting yourself in the foot by pushing it as it reeks of neediness, IE let me lock this pussy up because I don’t think I’ll see some again any time soon.

“But you would think she would initiate relationshipy things that I would agree with instead of just come over when I tease her into it to fuck.”

Bingo. If she doesn’t want to be a fucktoy, she won’t come over to just fuck, simple as that. If she wants a relationship, she’ll suggest stupid ass shit like going to farmer’s markets the morning after banging out. If she doesn’t know how to do these things you’re right on the “doomed from the start bit”.

Women are the gatekeepers of sex, men are the gatekeepers of commitment is a good rule to go by. You’ve proven why you’re worth the bang, now she proves why she’s worth you winnowing your options (and thereby life) down for her. Hell even taking the LTR route down to marriage you’re better off making her qualify the escalation in status until you see it fit to reward.

Elsewise you end up the chump who thought leading some sloot by the nose to a frivorce payday would keep him from having to make Excel sheet about why he doesn’t get some ass.

|||Women are the gatekeepers of sex, men are
|||gatekeepers of commitment is a good rule
|||to go by.

It is wrong in several ways, all because alphas and betas are different kind of men in the sexual marketplace, and different rules apply.

The correct version is “alpha fux and bet bux”, or put another way that alpha men are the gatekeepers to sex, women are the gatekeepers to commitment, because…

Point 1: Alpha men are the gatekeepers to sex because there are many women desperate to get their five minutes of alpha sex for every alpha. The experience of alphas is that women will easily have sex with them, and will often (the less attractive women) throw themselves at alphas as soon as they recognize one. Women are not the gatekeepers to sex because perhaps that it is what beta men think of them, but women simply don’t consider beta men as having a gender, of if they do they are disgusted by them.

Point 2: Women are the gatekeepers to commitment because the one think that cannot be enforced is to be sure of paternity (yes, paternity testing exists, but it is recent and a crime in many countries). The one commitment that matters and is valuable is for a man to be sure of paternity, and women are the gatekeepers of that. Alphas in particular know that all too well, because it is with them that wives cuckold their husbands; and they know that alphas themselves are not immune to cuckolding.

It is very beta to still think that women are the gatekeepers to sex and men to [financial] commitment, because that is what betas experience. And most alphas were beta, and the suffocating culture of the matriarchy still influences them. But it is a delusion.

Average women want sex with alphas far more than alphas can afford the time or enthusiasm to fuck them, and even average women have no commitment to have babies only with their “official” mate.

The fact that he did this shows exactly why he’s not getting laid more in his marriage. He’s begging, not taking. I’ve been married nine years. We have a kid. Few weekends ago, I went to take a nap. Woke up with raging hard on, kid was still taking his nap (22 month old). Walk downstairs, show her “look what I woke up with”. She hadn’t showered yet, said she felt a little gross. She doesn’t normally evade sex and has definitely fucked me when she hasn’t been in the mood at first. I about face, tell her no problem, I’m going to shower, pick out the meat to grill for dinner and hit the local bar for a bit first. While I’m in the shower, I hear the water running I’m the guest bath. Walk out of the shower to bedroom with towel to get the clothes I laid out and she’s on the bed, naked, says she cleaned up and is ready for me. She doesn’t have the body she used to before the kid but she bore me a son and is a good woman so I won’t complain. Fuck her, nut on her tits, and she tells me to take my time when I go out. Married guys – you’re wives will fuck you when you want if you don’t act like a desperate pussy.

I’m surprised no here has pointed any married guys to MMSL and the first book by Athol Kay. check out marriedmansexlife.com

AK has jumped the shark since he started moving toward the whole “love guru” coaching thing, but his early book (MMSL Primer) is an excellent condensed version of game principles and evo biology/psych, and his blog posts up until 2014 are good too. Should be required reading for all about to be married men, and surely if you are experiencing any droughts like in the OP.

The forum used to be pretty good over there but he has gotten into the habit of banning the more alpha posters who may tread on his business model (paid coaching) with free forum advice to posters….

I meetup with my regular wings from daygame (more on that later) and we head to a bar/club. We all seem nervous to do night game. One of my regular wings starts acting weird (laughing at random shit that isn’t funny… he’s been watching Tyler’s videos as of late so I’m assuming he started watching one about self-amusement). I decided my goal for the night is to tell the story YaReally helped me make (hooray!).

Okay…

We were on the street and I start freaking out about putting my bad storytelling skills out there. Wings mean well (just open, mate! (he’s from the UK)), but it doesn’t do much. One of my wings opens a set on the street, I jump in to tell the story, but…

Yeah that ends quick. We end up at another club, I’m still nervous. Ginger wing and other wing open two set, white and black chicks. One of the wings (let’s call him Femme Dude) intros me to black 6. I’m like cool, I’ll practice on her for real.

Me: Uh, yeah, sorry, I can’t help you :)
She makes weirded out eyes in Ginger wings direction.

I lol and the girls bail.

I proceed to approach a group of girls myself, but I don’t tell the story, thinking about what just occurred with black chick. Embarrassing.

We make our way to another bar and… I really can’t get myself to approach. I just psyche myself out for some reason. So I end up just standing there for a bit. Then I open this girl and tell her the same story.

So yeah, didn’t tell any other stories for the rest of the night. All my wings are from RSD so they didn’t get laid either. But yeah… that was the night. However, I met a dude who’s gamed for a long-ass time, has access to supreme hotties (9s and 10s). Says he admires my goal-setting with the story-telling cuz the other RSD dudes are just anti-social. Doesn’t like RSD anymore (says their new stuff is just causing newbies to become anti social, but he really liked their latest vid on social circles.

He knows game REALLY well (all the terms) and literally had NO FEAR. He approached whoever he wanted, saw things I didn’t see. Told me that he would take me to one of the industry nights with the hottest girls and douchiest guys.

AlphaWing: The first week is just for you to just observe. These are girls in the industry (night club scene). They just got off work to come there. Girls are in pushup bras and tight shorts. Guys are ripped as fuck in tang tops. It doesn’t matter what you say or what I tell you to say, because it won’t work. Everyone is in mixed sets.

The second week, you’ll open a few groups. By the fifth week, you’ll see the matrix. You’ll wonder why you never lead before and you’ll never go back. Coming to these industry nights is how my game got to the next level.

He really loves RSD Todd and Derek.

Anyway, really learned a lot from this guy. Game isn’t hard. You have to be real and express yourself.

Saturday FR:

So I meetup with AlphaWing. The other RSD dudes aren’t out, except for GingerWing and this other guy who’s a model (PrettyBoy). GingerWing gets jealous that AlphaWing is paying more attention to me than him. Apparently AlphaWing offered him the same shit (to help him with his game), but GingerWing couldn’t handle the industry nights. I gladly take up the offer.

Anyway, he tells me ALL about the BS about getting into clubs. You can easily get in, just make shit up. Lines are to keep out the losers. It’s not personal, it’s just the way it is.

Tells me to try and get in this club. The first time doesn’t work, but the second and third time, I get him in and into this other one. I cut the line, walk straight to the front, laser eye contact, and I get in. Mind is blown lol

AlphaWing and I hit up more chicks. He approaches a seated group of girls, pulls a girl out and carries her/dances with her.

Afterwards he says to me: “Give value to her, man. Always be thinking about giving good emotions.”

He does this again with another group with one dude and all girls. Pulls the girl he wants out of the group. Dances with her in front of her friends. She’s loving it. I noticed he addressed the dude before coming in and then the dude invite him to their table.

Me: Hey guys, just trying to have fun :D (qualifying here, but was nervous, was unsure what to say)
HBs: (nervous laughter)
AlphaWing swoops in and occupies the other girl. So, it’s me and the HB7.5.
Me (to her): You know what, I’m just gonna stand here, don’t worry about me (I lean back and pretend I don’t care about her anymore)
HB7.5: lol (? I’m guessing this is more nervous laughter)

So PrettyBoy swoops in and sits next to her. I look over at AlphaWing and (big surprise) his girl loves him. Then I look over at PrettyBoy and his girl is nodding, giving him the bitch face. Answering his questions, but not smiling.

So I leave, and so does AlphaWing. He says to me, “Look at PrettyBoy’s girl. She’s not smiling. Look, look. He looks better than both of us and look at him. Looks don’t matter.”

PrettyBoy leaves and then, AlphaWing says “wait for it.” After about 30 seconds, HB7.5 starts smiling again with her friend, as if PB never approached.

So, beforehand I text this girl I met through daygame to meetup tonight. Gave me the impression she was coming to the bar we were at alone but I should’ve figured she’d bring like 7 other chicks. Anyway, she’s on her way, but I was a bit nervous to be around her and her friends (I also kinda wanted to keep gaming with AlphaWing).

AlphaWing: Is she hot?
Me: Um, she’s alright.
AlphaWing: Just text her we’re leaving to another bar, we’ve been here for an hour.

I text her that. She says “I’m literally about to get in”

We head outside and AlphaWing tells me to meet her in line. I see her with her friends at the door. She’s really happy to see me (HB7) (she had also never been cold approached in her life). We hug and say we’ll meetup sometime for sure. Didn’t want to meetup with her before her party (she suggested drinks), but I was busy doing work, didn’t want to go out with her and then head out again.

After I leave, I get a text saying “Stay wit her, she’s cute.”

AlphaWing and I meetup and I say “I already told her I was leaving.”

“Should’ve stayed with her man. I could’ve easily occupied all the other girls.”

It’s fine though, I’m meeting up with her on Weds.

We get into another club. I see this girl and hop into another two-set.

Then I see this Hispanic(Italian?)girl that I was trying to makeout with earlier in the year. She’s with three other girls (one of whom is her aunt). Some black dude is mackin on her. I cut through him and say:

Me: I remember you!
HB8: From where?
Me: We were at bar X I was trying to kiss you.
HB8: Lol omg!
Me: I remember your face.

I try to physically escalate from there, but she’s not having it (moves back). I don’t react and say “I’ve changed” with a smirk.

Black dude comes in and says “I was just trying to say bye.”

I look him dead in the eye and say “Okay.”

From there I go for her aunt (lol) and I game her same way.
Aunt: I have a husband.
Me: Okay (wasn’t really into her).

I see black dude try and escalate on HBItalian but she’s not giving him any leeway. It’s like she’s teasing him or something (she definitely does this on a regular basis, it seems). I lock in against the bar, making it look like her aunt is gaming me.

Me: So, I’m too young for you, you say… who would you set me up with.
Aunt: My niece, HBItalian.
Me: Her over there? (she’s like right in front of us)
At this point the black dude gives up. I hold my hand out to HBItalian, she takes it and I move in to escalate again, she recoils.
HBItalian: Hey, like, keep this distance (makes a distance gesture)
Me: Yeah, don’t get too close.

And from there, I don’t know what else to say… but I could’ve just cold read her like “Have you been hurt before?” or something relationshippy like that and gone from there…

So, I bail:

Me: Well, gotta go, I’ll see you (try for hug).
HBItailian: (gives me dog pat hug)
Me: Wow really.
HBItalian comes in for another hug and I push her away.

I see her again outside after me, AlphaWing, and GingerWing leave the club. I reapproach and try to escalate again.

HBItalian: Lol where do you come from?
Me: I dunno.
HBItalian: You think you can just try and kiss me?
Me: Lol I haven’t even tried to do that.
HBItalian: I have a boyfriend.
Me: No you don’t lol
HBItalian: I’m 29.
Me: Really?????
HBItalian: …
Me: I think I want you even more.
HBItalian: lol

Now her crew is leaving, but weirdly it looks like she’s hesitating in leaving. I don’t catch it fast enough so she says “I guess I’ll see you around since you know my face so well :)”

I’m really not used to the whole teasing thing. This is where my verbals should’ve been stronger.

I approach a couple more sets in another bar.

Two set of Indian girls:

Me: Hey guys.
HB8: Hey, I don’t want to waste your time, we’re both married.
Me: Why are you guys married? It’s the 21st century.
HB8: (Face changes) Well, I’m sure my husbands coming so you better go (she pulls other girl back and away).
Me: I’m sure it’ll last very long.
Husband: Hey there.
Me: Hey (looking at his wrist, there’s a religious arm band), are you (religion name)?
Husband: Yes, I am! Wow, you’re very cultured (I’m black so… guess this is a surprise lol)
Me: Yeah, I also know Japanese and other stuff like that (me qualifying here lol)
Anyway, you guys have a good night.
Husband: You too man.

A couple of MILFs too. I ended up doing Todd’s FRED method inadvertently (didn’t do the decision part).

And didn’t go out Sunday because AlphaWing ended up hurting his back, and probably couldn’t have gotten into the higher end clubs/industry night without him. Of course, I had work the next day so… oh well, next Sunday.

I learned a shitload from AlphaWing. It’s really been a defining moment in this journey. Finally someone who’s BETTER than me that I can learn from who’s been around hotties and gaming for YEARS. He used to go out 5-6 nights a week, did a couple 30 day challenges too.

We’re gonna start going out regularly. Even though we didn’t get laid, I learned so much just from hanging with this guy. Lots of other stuff he shared, but basically, it’s hard to reach the other side, but once I do, I’ll be unstoppable.

Also didn’t game today because I wanted to try gaming alone. Didn’t work out. Need to figure out my game plan (I’ll do that tonight). Like YaReally said, I could throw my head against the wall, but the result won’t change. Toastmasters is tomorrow so that’ll help with my storytelling.

Also, pretty big revelation, I’m finding:

The RSD dudes I’ve been hanging with SUCK at game. It’s basically been a numbers game this whole time. One of my wings is a state-junkie, the others do the same thing I do (hope for a result).

I’m not as good as they are (they at least get laid, albeit not with super hot chicks), but whatever, I see the light now.

You’ll also notice that I didn’t tell my story again after Friday. I’ll give it another shot this weekend.

didn’t even read it all, but did you get laid? if not, stop spending time here typing this friggin novel and just go workout, drink and do drugs and get laid stop putting so much pressure on yourself just chill and not give a fuck, cut your hair once a week, dress well, and have a fuckin good time

and for the love of god, allah, or whoever, never say, let alone type the word hooray.

@Immoralgables Hey man, went to a Toastmasters group that meets once a week. Everyone there sucked. What’s your criteria for a good group? Everyone was super cheesy and lame (there was even an RSD guy who had been doing this for 2 YEARS and he still sucked… probably because the story he told sucked too coincidentally).

Heard a couple of different speeches but they weren’t interesting or captivating. I feel like this might just be another case of the blind leading the blind.

When I joined TM my goal was to push my comfort zone and hone my public speaking skills. My only criteria is that it’s a large (25+ people consistently attending) and vibrant group.

Sure, people in my club were cheesy and lame and sometimes I felt uncomfortable with but to be honest, you should really look at it as a playground where you can work on your public speaking skills and get rid of the anxiety that comes with speaking in front of large groups.

That’s really it.

You don’t have to look at it as a place to make friends and no need to rely on the group as a means to having access to cool people. Just simply look at it as a side-thing where you don’t have consequences during your grind of becoming a better public speaker.

So to answer your question, try a few groups and go with the one that has the biggest audience and the most “fun” to it. Fun could mean that the group laughs a lot, or that you have a handful of people who make it fun via their awesome speeches. Ideally, you could find a couple cool top-notch speakers (that compete) and see if they can mentor you to becoming better. It should speed things up.

Another pre-requisite could be is to find out how many people in the group actually compete. My club had about 3 guys competing.

1) One was head of corporate communications at a sizable company
2) Another gave a TedX talk and was an all around leader and attractive dude (was also Pres of the club)
3) Another wrote his own book and was a brutally honest and effective leader

Odds are, if you have stellar people like that in your club, then the club will be stellar too and you’ll become a better speaker by the sheer fact that you’re exposed to it.

Another thing to look for. Does the club have random nights where they’ll have mini-contests or a varied agenda. Our club had a backwards meeting where the agenda went backwards. So the Evaluator had to evaluate a speaker without even hearing the speech and so forth. Different shit like that pushes your comfort zone when you participate.

Don’t worry too much if the speeches aren’t that captivating. God I’ve heard a lot of shitty speeches but it allows you to become an effective evaluator when you do the evaluation slips. Beyond that, you’ll know you’ve gotten good when you can Evaluate a speech (as a speaker) even if the person’s speech sucked.

Set a tangible goal too. An example would be achieving your Half CC (giving 5 main speeches) within one year and doing some of the leadership roles in the meetings (Toastmaster, General Evaluator, Table-Topics leader).

Don’t stress that your group doesn’t have a lot of swag lol. Find your swag audience in the industry nights that you’ll be going to with AlphaWing.

PS – Please keep posting your learnings in the game especially with alphawing. I learned a lot from your comments below!

Ditch your RSD buddies and stick to this PUA dude like glue. They’re holding you back, he’ll help you move forward.

Your buddies will probably get jealous/bitter and hate on you, but ignore it (“ok man”, “ya I guess, cool”, “sorry guys”, like no fucks given), it’s OKAY to be selfish and look out for your goals instead of banging your head against the wall with them. If any of my buddies said “yo I have this opportunity to better myself but it means I won’t be around much sorry”, I will go “dude, fucking best of luck, I hope it works man, props for taking charge of your life, someday when you come back we’ll kick ass together”. Any friends who don’t support your decisions aren’t productive friends to have in your life right now.

Try to hang with him solo if that’s an easy option to do. Like if he invites YOU, don’t invite your other buddies to come with you. He already knows your buddies suck at this, even if he’s friends with them, and probably isn’t interested in babysitting them so don’t bring them out with you guys if he doesn’t say to. They’ll all be fighting for his attention and making bitter comments and neither of you need that energy. If buddy here has personally invited to take you with him to industry night, take him up on that and just take him up on your own. If a guy spends one on one time with me, he’s going to get better, because I’m going to try to bring him up to my level…if he brings a bunch of dead weight, then I’m going to probably do my thing and if he can sneak away from the group cool but if he can’t that’s his baggage to babysit.

Accept every offer this dude gives you to hang out that you can, even if it’s just hanging out chillin’ like grabbing food or playing xbox or even if it’s scary like come to industry night or he’s got a double date lined up and needs someone to wing the other girl, whatever. Like, if you gotta’ work or study or whatever, cool, but otherwise even if your arm is falling off and you haven’t slept in a week, go meet up with him when he offers.

Guys like that are too busy having their own fun to hound you and drag your ass out constantly…if you turn him down a few times he’ll just stop offering. If you have to go into work/school tired because Industry Night was a Sunday or Monday and you were out with him hitting up girls till 2 and you only got like 4 hours of sleep and have to nap at lunch, DO that.

Try to bring value to him if you can (don’t pay him $ tho lol), like if you can let him crash on your couch to save him a cab ride home after the bar, show up on time when you guys are meeting up…but honestly the only real value you need to give him is enthusiasm and a positive attitude. That’s all we want from dudes we go out with. You’d be AMAZED at how hard it is to find a solid wing who’s always upbeat and positive and actually approaches even if he gets shot down.

My best wing just moved away so I’m going to be building a social circle from the ground up in a new city and even night I go out a bunch of dudes want to be my new BFF because I’ll just intro them to random girls and stuff. But a lot of them are negative, complain, hard to get to come out regularly, make a ton of excuses not to approach, drag my energy down, get wasted, get wasted and get into fights, etc.

I would 1000000% rather have a total newbie who doesn’t know his head from his ass in the game, but who’s got a smile on his face and an upbeat attitude and is eager to go out and practice and set goal and work on his game, than guys like your RSD crew who are ego-protecting all night and not approaching and making excuses and sniping negative comments and getting drunk and crossing their fingers.

It’s okay to bomb in front of him. He’s been there, we all bomb, and we respect guys who aren’t afraid to bomb because we know how much balls it takes to fuck up in front of other dudes and out in public and in front of hot girls.

For whatever reason (probably your goal-setting and drive in general to handle this), buddy here has taken an interest in mentoring you. Don’t waste this opportunity at all. One of the guys I learned the most from was an amazing Natural I became close friends with for like 2 years (heading out multiple nights a week together to hit up girls) who wanted to hang out just because he respected that I would approach like he does and that I would try to occupy girls he’d throw at me and throw him girls to occupy.

Skip to 29:50, here’s Tyler stressing what to do when you find a mentor and how to offer value to them and what their mindset is when they meet a guy like you and how he got Mystery to mentor him for free:

RSD churns out a lot of retards these days. Their actual knowledge is tight, but since pickup went mainstream there are a lot of morons getting into it who just skim a few catch phrases like “self-amuse!” “call her a dog!!” and run with it without learning legit game. Like I say, when I got into this, and when Tyler and all the oldschool guys did, we all knew “this is something that’s going to take YEARS of my life to handle”. A lot of guys go into it now expecting to handle it in a couple months of acting socially retarded lol What RSD teaches is still rock solid in terms of human psychology and social dynamics, but their stuff is very easy to take and warp into acting like a social retard, esp when guys who don’t use critical thinking hear it lol

Sounds like your buddy got into it before it went so mainstream, he’s the kind of guy PUA is supposed to ideally produce. Just a cool outgoing social guy, with an underlying base of tactical/strategic skills in terms of knowing how to work groups and build attraction and escalate and pull. Even if you never see the guy again, use his vibe as inspiration for what you can achieve if you stick to this, even if that might take a few years to get to where it’s as effortless for you as it is for him. But it’s like hitting the gym, if you lift heavy weights, you’ll get bigger, that’s just how it works.

Good luck, sometimes going out pays off in ways besides vagina lol a good wingman is worth like 10000 chicks.

Have fun, and keep attempting that story. It’s okay to fuck it up, you’ll absolutely fuck it up. It’ll probably take you telling it 10x before you even come off normal/congruent to saying it, let alone getting a positive reception. That’s the point of telling the story right now, is to work on your storytelling skills…if I’ve never ridden a bike before, I’m going to keep falling off and skinning my knees the first 20 times I try riding it. I can’t get better at riding that bike if I fall a few times and then go sit under a tree and just stare at that bike scared to fall off again. Throw a bandaid on your knee and get back on it. ;)

So I took your advice and ended up going to this higher end club last night (stayed out til 4am) with AlplhaWing, GingerWing, and PrettyBoy. Turns out GingerWing is getting pretty good and PrettyBoy is meh.

AlphaWing really is trying to help us get better, pointing out flaws in our game and telling us to approach (weak approach vs strong approach, intense pressure vs. weak pressure, body language and escalation). He’s really into teaching this stuff. He said all of my approaches after he helped me out were fine, I just have to spend more time getting congruent with it.

@Hunter – sounds like I’m about at where you are right now in terms of experience, but running solo. Reasonably smallish town, enjoying helping out other guys incidentally throwing girls at them where I can but haven’t met any decent wings yet. If you’re willing would be super appreciated to hear some of the main points you’ve picked up from your mentor – just some basic fundamentals like what you’ve mentioned there. If not no stress, just looking to compliment my experience with that of others in the field.

“If you’re willing would be super appreciated to hear some of the main points you’ve picked up from your mentor – just some basic fundamentals like what you’ve mentioned there. If not no stress, just looking to compliment my experience with that of others in the field.”

– Embrace who you are right now so that you’re congruent (and not trying to be someone you’re not)
– Give value/give positive emotions
– Put yourself in as many difficult situations as possible
– Learn to lead
– Move a girl max of 2 times within venue and then she’s ready to pull
– Calibrate your body language to her comfort (sounds super obvious, but I never did this)
– Go out
– Be aware of how girls react to you (windows of opportunity, buying temperature, eye contact-as in when she’s checking you out, proximity)

That was the jist of it. Sort of a rehash of what I wrote above. He pretty much says the same things as YaReally except it’s a real life person saying this lol

@Hunter – yup, that’s the goods. Thanks for summarizing, much appreciated. While I know all this, when it’s re-enforced by others actually out there like I am it helps build a little conviction & momentum.

@Hunter
Big response in mod for ya. The jist of it is: GO TO INDUSTRY NIGHT WITH THIS DUDE. lol. Go into work/school tired, it’s fine, don’t turn down this guy’s offers ’cause if you turn him down a few times he’ll stop offering. You’ll only meet dudes like this guy once every few years at the most.

@YaReally I’m going to make sure that I do. Me and AlphaWing talked for a freaking long time about game after the night was over. Just texted him as well. He doesn’t respond often (busy guy, not surprisingly), but I’m sure he saw my message and we’ll meetup this weekend.

“I love tons of the material rsd puts out but ive always felt its a little complicated to remember while you’re drinking and feeling approach anxiety.”

It is, that’s why you take it a day at a time. :) Guys should go into pickup expecting to take YEARS to get good at it, not just “I’ll read all this stuff and apply it this weekend and be good at it”. You’re only ever going to even remember (esp when you’re staring a gorgeous girl in the eyes face to face) like 1% of it in the moment and fuck up applying it the first bunch of times. But over time you get better and stuff starts going on autopilot and you start piecing it all together and then you get to the point where 90% of it is on autopilot and that’s where it’s powerful as fuck.

“Why were you telling someone else’s story?”

When you’re new, you often don’t really know what a “good” story is. It’s like someone learning how to write jokes with good punchlines and dramatic buildups etc. Anyone can write a joke, but it can help to have someone review your joke and help you cut out pointless bits and enhance other bits and add some extra stuff that helps get the impact you want. Same with writing a speech etc.

So Hunter posted a story of his and I just spit back my version of it and he’s trying that version out because my version has a lot more game concepts built in and it’s more efficient and hits the right notes etc. But it’s not his story and he’s not confident in his storytelling skills yet so he’s going to come off awkward telling it the first like 10-20 times until he gets used to it and then he should get better results from it. It’s not a magic “girls will jump on my dick” story, it’s just a short little routine he can use to practice and get more confident in his storytelling skills so he can craft and tell other stories.

Often when you’re starting out you don’t have a lot of stories because you haven’t done anything with your life. When I started out, for the first few months or a year or whatever, I was telling stories that my natural buddies told me but replacing them with me in the stories so it sounded like I was doing cool shit lol Because up till then I had just sat in my cpu room and didn’t have any interesting stories about my own life. Then over time as I went out more and had more of my own adventures I was able to drop their stories and just use my own stories of shit that’s happened to me, that’s way more congruent, and I could tell those stories with the storytelling skills I had learned telling other people’s stories.

And then I come on here and ramble for 20 pages about efficient storytelling, in the least efficient manner possible lol

This is exactly what you need. Rack up the approaches. When you’re out there, fuck the PUA forums, the Mystery Method, CH, everything else — treat it like a numbers game. That is the best attitude and belief to have in the field. Two chicks blow you off? Backturn and continue on.

‘Me: Hey guys, just trying to have fun :D (qualifying here, but was nervous, was unsure what to say)
HBs: (nervous laughter)
AlphaWing swoops in and occupies the other girl. So, it’s me and the HB7.5.
Me (to her): You know what, I’m just gonna stand here, don’t worry about me (I lean back and pretend I don’t care about her anymore)
HB7.5: lol (? I’m guessing this is more nervous laughter)’

Focus on this type of opening. Like, this is essentially ‘hey what’s up?’ I KNOW THAT IS BLASPHEMY in PUA-world. But honestly, before you start dropping advanced bombs, you gotta know basic social shit. The Mystery Method originally had a disclaimer — this is for dudes who already CAN get normal girls and just want to get THE HOTTEST girls. So the MM assumes a solid foundation. That foundation is what you’re building. This is why true, legit naturals laugh at most PUA’s….(they don’t realize why tho)…because PUA’s tend to be dudes who are borderline sperg, who nevertheless try to start on step 10.

It’s like a middle-schooler stepping on to the NFL gridiron.

Now, when she just nervously laughs, you kind of implode. Instead of just ‘I’m going to stand here don’t worry about me.’ Have fun. ‘So you guys party a lot?’ blah blah blah, just whatever. SHOOT THE SHIT. You need to not worry about her liking you — this is KILLING you. Treat her like a potential friend — you never know how she actually feels, you never know who’s watching you, etc. etc.

‘So I leave, and so does AlphaWing. He says to me, “Look at PrettyBoy’s girl. She’s not smiling. Look, look. He looks better than both of us and look at him. Looks don’t matter.”’

Yeah this is why going out and staying in set and putting yourself into a bajillion situs will do a ton for you. You WILL see good-looking guys flame out with girls. While I’ll never say ‘looks don’t matter,’ it’s definitely true that they aren’t everything.

‘We head outside and AlphaWing tells me to meet her in line. I see her with her friends at the door. She’s really happy to see me (HB7) (she had also never been cold approached in her life)’

Yup. Cold Approaching itself (before we even get to game) is a great equalizer — no one does it. Your raw odds from cold approach are fairly low (just a fact) because of several things outside your control. But when you pull off a cold approach — your value to the girl is super skyhigh. You can do whatever you want with her — precisely because you have done something that no one (or very very few) people have done successfully with her.

‘We hug and say we’ll meetup sometime for sure. Didn’t want to meetup with her before her party (she suggested drinks), but I was busy doing work, didn’t want to go out with her and then head out again.’

Ooookay. This is, to me, a huuuuuge failure. Why don’t you want to meetup with her before her party? AlphaWing was right — you always stay with the ones you’ve made progress on.

Opening is good, however ‘what’s your problem’ is a bad response. What you should always do when a girl rebuffs your boldness is to just sort of pull it back a bit and then try to escalate later. So when she refuses it you can laugh and say ‘oh sorry, my name is Hunter….is that better?’ with a smirk.

You don’t need the ‘girlfriend for five minutes only’ stuff. Too tryhard. She has up a bitch shield for whatever reason and you need to break it before going full C&F.

‘I’m really not used to the whole teasing thing. This is where my verbals should’ve been stronger.’

Yeah, you don’t need to tease that much. Every line doesn’t have to be a C&F masterpiece. I mean, the most ROI from ‘good’ lines comes from when you say them in direct response to a shit test. Otherwise, who cares? Focus on coming across as a NORMAL COOL GUY like 90% of the time. And 10% edge.

‘Me: So, I’m too young for you, you say… who would you set me up with.
Aunt: My niece, HBItalian.
Me: Her over there? (she’s like right in front of us)
At this point the black dude gives up. I hold my hand out to HBItalian, she takes it and I move in to escalate again, she recoils.
HBItalian: Hey, like, keep this distance (makes a distance gesture)
Me: Yeah, don’t get too close.

And from there, I don’t know what else to say… but I could’ve just cold read her like “Have you been hurt before?” or something relationshippy like that and gone from there…’

Lol just phucken leave, man. It’s not worth it. There are a billion other girls in the club. Normal Cool Guys don’t linger on chicks — and yeah, this is a lesson I learned the hard way from trying to stay in set for way too long. Like, don’t leave after 30 seconds….but you’ve tried several times now. Cut the set loose.

Nooow, I don’t want to give you the wrong idea. I’m pretty sure you can fuck this chick, but you just have made so many mistakes. First of all, her Aunt is there (lol!) what do you expect her to do? Make out with some random in front of her family so they can judge her?

If she’s with people she respects in any way, you need to ISOLATE.

Anyway, the fact that you are here balls-out trying to grope and make out with her in this context suggests that you are NOT A NORMAL COOL GUY.

‘I learned a shitload from AlphaWing.’

Yeah, but you also learned a shitload because you -did- a shitload. It’s good that he was there to motivate you.

‘I’m not as good as they are (they at least get laid, albeit not with super hot chicks), but whatever, I see the light now.’

Well, the reality of game is that if you’re only going to allow yourself to bang top shelf pussy…you’re going to go for stretches at a time without sex. Nature of the beast.

Shoot for the 8+’s always, but if a 6 will let you take her home tonight why are you refusing the experience? Being with a lot of 6’s will help you with banging that 8 (those experiences helped me out a lot…I knew how to structure the day 2, I knew how to escalate, I knew…even tho I was nervous…I was still able to execute just because I’d done it so many times before).

“Well, the reality of game is that if you’re only going to allow yourself to bang top shelf pussy…you’re going to go for stretches at a time without sex. Nature of the beast.

Shoot for the 8+’s always, but if a 6 will let you take her home tonight why are you refusing the experience? Being with a lot of 6′s will help you with banging that 8 (those experiences helped me out a lot…I knew how to structure the day 2, I knew how to escalate, I knew…even tho I was nervous…I was still able to execute just because I’d done it so many times before).”

See this is the biggest thing that I just don’t get… like I understand it, but see on one hand Ya said in an old post “you’re building references with lower quality girls and your brain says ‘I only deserve this type of girl,’ but on the other hand, I hear “just get the reference” from RSD and shit…

Maybe I’m over complicating it… but then the thing you said about having a foundation… maybe that’s right too. I should probably just do that first.

My ego’s like “shoot for the hot ones, hot ones, go for the hot ones!” and it’s fucking me up I think. I haven’t banged in a while… I’m thinking I should get it over with.

Yeah, that’s why the key is to ‘always shoot for the 8+ girls.’ Banging 6’s will not do a ton for your ‘sense of entitlement.’ You will only get that through the reference experience of trying to tag (and hopefully eventually tagging) legit, true-blue hotties.

However, when you do find yourself with a legit hottie — execution is key. Think of it like the army. They say ‘yeah, bootcamp is nothing like war, but once the war starts, you default to your training.’ Same here. You build up a little bit of habits….you structure your Day 2’s, you have a routine. You can do this in your sleep. So, when you find yourself in a situ where your state is all fucked up (because you’re with a legit hottie and you’ve never done that before), you default back to what you know. If you do it right, what you will ‘know’ is how to fuck a girl by (at the latest) the third time you’ve met her.

Plus — and this is just anecdotal — when you go a long time without having sex with a chick….people can tell. I will say that, if you have to choose between ‘guy who has sex’ and ‘guy who does not have sex,’ it is always better to be the latter.

And yeah, trust what I said about foundation. You will be straight up shocked at how much learning how to be a normal cool guy can help. Once you get that stuff solid, it becomes way easier to incorporate the ‘game’ stuff into your interactions.

Yeah take the pressure of yourself. Just be a cool fun guy, give positive vibes to everyone around you — esp AlphaWing. Like, after the sarge (if AlphaWing hasn’t taken off to slay lol), get some food together and get feedback. Take your feedback with a smile and some gratitude.

I’m curious how he asked for sex too. A friend is having sex with an ex whose boyfriend pleads for sex in the most effeminate ways so no wonder she’s rather repulsed and cheats. This being said, if I was to be married and was denied sex three consecutive times or so, I’d probably simply stop asking and start looking for sex elsewhere.

And you’re wrong about no contract would make women attracted to beta men. Probably a contract in which a woman is sold in servitude to a beta man would make her actually get wet during sex with him. Unless he’d treat even his slaves as his equal – then it’s good he won’t copulate and reproduce.

Married = thirsty. No way around it, especially when kids and the wall get thrown into the mix. But married dudes will only put up with drought conditions for so long.
“Oh, you don’t like giving blowjobs anymore? That’s fine, I’ll find another woman who will.”
Now that happy hours are back on the regular schedule, I’ve noticed my phone blows up a lot more just prior to 4:00. Funny shit.

We all know why women want to get married: Financial & social security for HER and HER offspring.
We also know why people get married in India or Islamic countries: It’s either that or be ostracized and/or stoned to death.
Why any man would want to get married in today’s socio-cultural climate in the ‘West’ remains a mystery.

“The female bartenders and I are lightly flirting. One of them tells me to come by tomorrow. Wife hears this [ … ] wife leans over and whispers sexily in my ear as I’m checking email “You are so getting some pussy tonight.” (this from a wife who never initiates).”

“Dread” has a part, but there is something far more fundamental here, actual attraction.

What does woman want? Women want sons, and sons who are (sociopaths) and players, sneaky fuckers, who help her spread HER genes and slow down other women’s genes spreading, by out-cuckolding the sons of other women.

The best way they have to get sons like that is to get them fathered by a man like that, because a player’s, cuckolder’s pump-and-dump attitude is probably largely inheritable.

When their gina tingles for potential cuckolders, it’s the signal that their body wants their babies.

If a man shows signs, such as being loyal, monogamous, supporting, dutiful, of being a potential cuckold, then women have horror of running any risk of having sons from him: because if those sons are like him, her investment of many years in bearing and raising his sons will likely result in many fewer grandsons than if she had the sons of a cuckolding player.

Women’s instinct makes them feel the sexual desire of a loyal nonplayer husband as a nauseating threat: the threat of him succeeding in having sex and children with her, and then she having too few or no grandchildren of hers than other women who got cuckolding players to father their sons.

There is probably no greater and more disgusting menace for a woman than the threat of having sex and potentially sons with a monogamous, supporting husband, and no greater, sexier joy than being seduced into sex and having sons by a player with a reputation of pumping-and-dumping other men’s wives.

Feminism has largely been a battle to win the right of women to never have children with their dutiful husbands, and to get their children (if any) fathered by tingly cuckolders. That is what “reproductive rights” really means in practice, and why the rules women want for abortions are what they are, however strange they seem.

Also, player shaming keeps your game honed like a Honzo sword. You have to be sharp, quick, and deadly. And sneaky. I’ve had past lays tell new girls they should fuck me – it’s imperative that you don’t leave carnage in your wake.

«If every child were sired by a “player,” the entire world would behave like Zimbabwe in a few generations.»

Fairly likely, because women having children with cuckolders results in the patriarchy (women will do whatever players want) and in matrilineality, and neither motivate men to invest in leaving their children a better future.

Betas won’t because they would not have much chance of having children, and alphas won’t because while they will be sure of having many, they would’t know which ones, and being dark triad, or at least emotionless psychopaths, they would not care much.

But it is *women* who have babies, and it is *women* who choose between K and R selection.

The problem with having children from players for women are all to do with their personal destiny, not that of their genes:

* Sociopathic, player fathers don’t stick around to invest in the mothers of their children and in raising them, because they know very well that some will be theirs, but some will be by some other sociopathic, player father; and since those mothers are more attracted to them than viceversa, they will expect to be supported by them. Dark triad gina tinglers expect women not only to give them sex on demand, because women are so needy of players, and to raise their children without any help, but also to be fed and pampered by those tingled women. Most betas have no idea of how forward and desperate are women to feel the tingle only an alpha can give them, and how much they will do both sexually and not to keep their gina tingling. Only alphas really understand women, because only alphas see the true sexuality of women.

* Sociopathic, player sons won’t stick around to support their mother in her old age, they will play the field and let themselves be pampered and fed by their many women and current or future mothers of their sons.

* Most importantly, since the player, sociopathic sons will spread their offspring wide, which is for women’s instinct (“tingle”) after all the whole point, the grandsons won’t even know which grandmother they could support.

Women who choose sociopathic players as the best fathers for their children hand over all power to alpha men, and end their lives as poor, broken, lonely hags.

Therefore for the past dozen thousand years women have created the *matriarchy*, where society is run for the benefit of women, and in particular of old women.

The keys to the matriarchy are two:

* To offer even betas a good chance to have a wife who bears him children, by ensuring that women marry men not because they are tingly, but because they are providers; there are simply not enough alphas to support all old women, and alphas would be particularly reluctant to do that.

* To offer both betas and alphas some guarantee that at least the first-born is theirs, by ensuring that women are virgins at marriage. That’s the purpose of the ancient tradition of virginity at marriage, and the reason why father tend to be particularly attached to first-borns: since men know that women can and will cuckold them, only physical virginity can give a good guarantee that only the first-born is theirs. Because otherwise a young woman would crave sex with a hot alpha player, and on becoming pregnant by him would offer herself in marriage to a good provider before the pregnancy became visible. Thus only marry virgins. Plus, secondarily, strong social norms abut monogamy, with repudiation in case of adultery by the wife (as it is, without the pill, nearly synonymous with cuckolding).

Given a high probability of marriage and paternity, at least of the first-born, men would compete to invest in women and their children, and the result is extended matriarchal families where father, sons, grandsons are in effect livestock for their wife, mother and grandmother, and a woman’s power and wealth in her old age depend on the number and prosperity of the livestock she has married or raised.

The problem with the matriarchy from a woman’s point of view is that she ends up hating her sex life, because unless she is one of the lucky few who marries and has monogamous (for her) sex with an alpha, she has to endure what for women is sex without consent: sex with a lame loser she has no attraction for (for women “consent” means more “chemistry” than “unforced”).

«This is why we need slut shaming and player shaming.»

Do you think that mere “slut shaming” will make women really stop objectifying as sex and sperm appliances the alphas who tingle their ginas, and stop throwing themselves at them whenever they can?

Especially as they no longer need husbands, sons and grandsons as pensions assets because thanks to the pill they can become voluntarily sterile, spend their infertile years on paid work instead of pregnancies, and thus save for a pension, instead of raising a herd of livestock (what men call “family”).

Even more so you really think that betas and especially alphas will invest again in women and those women’s children just because of shaming?

Without any guarantee that the women they invest in will not cuckold them as much as they can get away with?

Since with the pill virginity at marriage is essentially impossible, an essential step would be *mandatory* and *public* paternity testing, and by some kind of highly reliable, incorruptible organisation. Then men would be justified to invest in the mothers of their own children, and their own children.

But mandatory, and never mind public, paternity testing will never pass, because to women it feels like hideous abuse, never mind that it would highly beneficial to the children on both health grounds and because of the life commitment of their true, and known true fathers.

Thank you Greg Eliot for your comment. The reason why we need both, is that when you shame sluts but not players, you end up with a culture that is like the Middle East…better than Zimbabwe, but still not a top-rated place to live.

First, it is women who have children, and it is them who have children, they decide who gets to be the genetic father. Slut shaming by itself means little. Women in the past were virgins on marriage and mostly monogamous later because otherwise men would not marry them, and in those times sex lead usually to pregnancy and without a husband she had to invest in the pregnancy on her own. Not because of slut shaming. Currently women don’t need to have children and grandchildren to live well in old age; they can choose sterility with the pill, and then save towards a pension account. Player women don’t need husbands anymore.

Second, players men have no reason to stop fucking around and invest in their children, because they don’t know if they are their own; so unless they get a strong guarantee of paternity of their children, so they know they are investing in their own children, and only them. Players know very well how passionate women are about cuckolding, after all they are the men with whom women are so eager to cheat on other men. Player shaming is very little to hold them back.

If you want a traditional matriarchy, a society run for the benefit of women and in particular older women, with men willing to invest in them and their children, building and maintaining a civilization to give a better future to their own children, you have to persuade women to offer guaranteed paternity to men. Given that the pill has made virginity on marriage rather unlikely, the only way seems to be mandatory and public paternity testing of every newborn, by an incorruptible organization.

That will never pass, because women will never allow it, even if it would be very beneficial for the newborns both as to health care and to unreserved commitment from their genetic father.

People naturally feel revulsion for ‘sluts,’ and they naturally feel admiration (even begrudging) for ‘players.’ It is easy for a woman to be a slut. The vast majority of women can get sex almost any time they want. It is difficult for a man to be a player.

That said, qualities such as ‘monogamous, loyal, etc.’ make no difference to a woman’s attraction. It is strength that attracts them. That’s why they swoon for the strong-willed Evangelical straight-arrow minister and the motorcycle-riding free-spirited rebel.

However, most men have only ‘loyality/monogamy/etc.’ to offer. They have only this to offer because they are weak. Because these men are weak, women find them unattractive. Do not confuse correlation with causation.

If you haven’t seen examples of both ‘good’ and ‘cad’ alphas in life, you haven’t been paying attention.

Slightly off-topic, but is (in)famous rap group Die Antwoord (The Answer) disseminating red pill truths? Their latest album Donker Mag (Dark Force) has this track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvMXVHVr72A called Pitbull:

Men usually want sex more often than women. I don’t want sex if I’m tired, bloated, etc. Women have to get their head in the game to enjoy sex, not just their body. I don’t fault this woman for not wanting sex all that often, I fault her for not taking care of her man’s biological imperative to orgasm by another’s doing, in a way that makes him feel loved and appreciated.

My SO’s sex drive is stronger than mine.
I fill in the difference with blow jobs usually. I also do lubricated two handed hand jobs, lap dances/grinding, or just get relaxed enough for him to go in and choose positions that will make him cum quicker. He also likes prostrate stimulation, which can’t be done effective during sex anyway.

He’s never complained, in fact, I think he likes that he can request difference ways of getting off and not be worried about getting me in the mood.

I could have written that spreadsheet about a year ago. Been married for many years and until I learned to game her it was just like that. But i have found it easier to game her than a new woman on the street. Still learning that skill.. lol My wife does not travel so I am not so sure about the fucking around thing. I doubt it but anything is possible.

But once the gaming started everything got better. Introducing dread into the picture, squashing her shit tests, recognizing tacitly that I am the prize and that I really do not need her, and being very direct and in her face about it has worked to change her attitude 180 degrees.

And the result is a happier me, a happier family and she is even happier. there is rarely a fight about anything. And sex is never an issue. It is on demand and she will come at me if it has been over a week. And nothing is off the table now either.

This man can possibly turn it around but why should he even bother. He has no kids thank god and all he needs to is kick that soul sucking bitch to the curb and count this as an expensive lesson and never get married again.

“An 11% lay ratio is pretty good for the average single beta male picking up girls (1 out of 10 approaches yields sex)”

I’m not sure where this number comes from,.However, it sounds pretty close to what to the daygame number close to bang ratio is. The thing is, you are not going to number close on every approach, far from it.

That looks a very generous ratio for a cold approach to bang ratio.

[CH: yes, that’s inarguable. but the point of the comparison was to demonstrate that marriage will not necessarily mean a buffet of sex for men. any man who thinks that has already lost.]

“[P]eople who identified as liberal and atheist had higher IQs. This applied also to sexual exclusivity in men, but not in women.”

You boys putting the ladies on a virtuous pedestal should give this some thought. That smart career women will dump your ass for a more exciting guy as quick as the dumb as dirt waitress. If you’re a smart guy, also become a suave guy and get your share of the free poon spoils while you can. Don’t spend your youth languishing in a marriage espousing social policies that will ultimately destroy your legacy. If you must get married, wait till you’re pushing 50 or a little over when you have your fortune built, get a prenup, don’t have kids (whether by sheer force of will over her or by clandestine vasectomy), and marry a gorgeous young girl that doesn’t have the means to support herself. That is the sweet spot. Take your chips off the table when you have gotten the most out of the game.

Clooney had it right till the end. Shoulda gotten a hot, young thing. Guess he chose to self-immolate to appease the liberal Hollywood Gods.

Vox had a post this morning that features two pretty twins and likely meth-heads busted for prostitition, working for a black pimp. CH tweeted the link this morning.

One wonders about anyone in their life, maybe long ago such as their great-grandfather before they were born, who’d have been heartbroken about how they ended up. Maybe he even was like the daddy in Loretta Lynns “Coalminers Daughter.”

A philosophical question comes up, contemplating these wasted girls. What would be their opposite, the best a woman can be?

A scientist, writer, Olympic star? No. A rare Jane Austen aside, female accomplishment is superfluous to male accomplishment, and it comes at too great an opportunity-cost if she fails to have children.

Then, maybe giving a nod to hedonism, is being a lissome young hottie witj a job and a degree, confideny strutting down a fashionable district the best a woman can be?No. Although her smile is gold, the raw sex appeal of a bernankified skirt pales next to the flash of an Amish girl’s pale wrist and blushing cheek.

It seems then, that the best a woman can be is to be a good wife to a solid man and a mother to children that bear his likeness.

Greatness is so in reach to the woman. Its a tragedy and a crime that the land we call our country makes it so rare a thing.

Damn just found out about a hot hb 8-9ish who broke up with her 2 yr fb and (even though it’s been maybe 1-2 yrs) met her ex bfs good friend (who is a year younger…..) out at a bar on a weekend night and slept with him….

W.t.f.

This makes me sick how much you can’t trust girls. I’ve just heard about too much….. And there’s NO WAY IN HELL a hot girls’ notch count is under 10 these days by the time she reaches 26 NO WAY. Simply not a chance unless she betasized some guy from 19- 24 yrs old.

I think this blog and hearing about everything is making me a very very big commitment phobe.

I could be insecure, no clue. But I don’t even know how I can look at a girl without saying ‘pump and dump’……

I just don’t get how I have two close buddies who are not alpha looking AT ALL scrawny and not very tall, and they have hb 8 or higher gfs for 1+ year. ( they are somewhat young though)
Do not get it

Married guys should check out married man sex life.com. and get the first book the married man primer. The second book on map is crap. The primer breaks down evo psych and biology and game in the context of a ltr.

The forum is not good anymore since AK started banning the alphas and put up a pay wall….. but the early blog posts and up until this year are good.

The predictable Australian MSM reaction. I almost don’t bother pick up a paper anymore. The comments are predictabiy hamsterific, with the general theme being deflection – “keeping a spreadsheet says more about him than her” etc etc.

Blogster; between Holden Caulfield’s post about the single mother cock queen voted to the Australian Senate and your post on the Australian MSM anyone living outside of Australia can get a fairly good idea of what stratospheric levels of female c*ntery the average Australian male has to contend with.

1) They are 25 and 26, married 2 years. So it is save to assume they are fucking for over 3 years.
-> It is a biological mechanism that women WHO DO NOT GET PREGNANT within 3 years will look for other males to fuck them because they perceive their current men “infertile”.

That is the core and root of the problem.

1.1.) She is going to the gym, so her looks is important to her. Meaning she wants to attract men to fuck her. She does however not want to be fucked by her husband, she is perceiving sex with him as a chore.
-> ATTRACTION IS NOT A CHOICE!
Attraction is strongly related with (potential) BABIES. Most likely she got sex on the side already.

2.) The fact she is working and doing “business trips” is another nail in his coffin.
In her workplace she has other (male) bosses. Her attraction to her man is thus further decreased by taking orders from other males.

->One god, one king, one husband -> this is the sacred order and not by coincidence.

3.) Him making a spreadsheet instead of (forcefully) claiming what is his right and her posting said spreadsheet in the internet are further prove that there is something terribly wrong in this marriage.

->SHE HAS LOST RESPECT!
He is not a leader, he is more like a child who begs for sex, putting a final nail into the coffin that is there marriage.

I’m willing to wager that his spreadsheet came in response to a complain from his wife about not having sex any more. American women seem to believe that they have a right to be swept off their feet like in a Disney fantasy to get them in the mood every time they have sex. But the reality is that there is nothing in life for which “I’m not in the mood” suffices as an adequate excuse. Try using those excuses she gives to her boss at work and see what the response is. She’d be fired from her job just like she ought to be fired from her marriage. For better or worse, adult life means getting over yourself and living up to your obligations. You _GET_ in the mood because the alternative is that your husband seeks satisfaction elsewhere.

This is, unfortunately, a typical scenario. Nobody has the time or ability to maintain mystery and allure when you’re living with someone for many years. Either you get over yourself and decide to love or you will wind up with a wrecked home.