RE: Where to start

Coder Disaster wrote:
Why not ignore them then?? Simple , then it wont be annoying.

Doesnt make it not annoying. Then it worthlessly takes up a spot on the 'Latest Forum Posts' list.

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RE: Where to start

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Posted on 01-09-08 17:31

I love how, every time someone asks for advice on where to start, a bunch of noobs jump in the thread and say things like "well, you could learn Ruby cuz its sweet" or some other crap about [insert language here]. You don't need to learn a new language to learn how to hack... you need to learn how to employ those techniques in the languages you already know. If you choose to learn a language, fine, but don't expect it to be any more accomodating when it comes to learning "how to hack".

Yes, there are hundreds of these threads.
Yes, we continue to answer them despite that.

Why?

We know you're not yet willing to learn on your own completely... we know you don't have that drive. How can we expect you to even try to search the forums? Is it annoying? Sure it is... but, we can take the time to attempt to get you motivated to contribute to the community in some meaningful way.

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RE: Where to start

Zephyr_Pure wrote:
We know you're not yet willing to learn on your own completely... we know you don't have that drive. How can we expect you to even try to search the forums? Is it annoying? Sure it is... but, we can take the time to attempt to get you motivated to contribute to the community in some meaningful way.

I suppose you're right. I guess I just didn't think about it that way.

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RE: Where to start

Posts: 586Location: He is back and he's bad!Joined: 25.11.07 Rank: Mad User

Posted on 01-09-08 18:08

Zephyr_Pure wrote:
I love how, every time someone asks for advice on where to start, a bunch of noobs jump in the thread and say things like "well, you could learn Ruby cuz its sweet" or some other crap about [insert language here]. You don't need to learn a new language to learn how to hack... you need to learn how to employ those techniques in the languages you already know. If you choose to learn a language, fine, but don't expect it to be any more accomodating when it comes to learning "how to hack".

True, but eventually you will need to start to learn some programming/scripting language. For the most of people it's php, we all know why . I hated php from the beggining, so I learned the basics and some extra ( and I'm always reading upon it bit by bit ), then I tried perl, and man that was the Language for me, and I just love coding with it. Point is, that even though noobs ( "learn Ruby cuz it's sweet" ) will usually not help you with these posts, it will help you widen the prespective a little, and may help you choose/research what is most appropriate for you

[img][/img]

spyware - "They see me trollin'..."<yaragn> ever seen that movie? The Matrix?
<yaragn> with those green lines of flying text?
<yaragn> *THAT'S* Perl

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RE: Where to start

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Posted on 01-09-08 18:16

clone4 wrote:
True, but eventually you will need to start to learn some programming/scripting language. For the most of people it's php, we all know why . I hated php from the beggining, so I learned the basics and some extra ( and I'm always reading upon it bit by bit ), then I tried perl, and man that was the Language for me, and I just love coding with it. Point is, that even though noobs ( "learn Ruby cuz it's sweet" ) will usually not help you with these posts, it will help you widen the prespective a little, and may help you choose/research what is most appropriate for you

If the person asking for help already knows a primary language, do not suggest another. If the person asks for a particular type of language (desktop or web development, scripting, etc.), try to be helpful with small bits of advice while giving direction. Listing off a number of languages does widen the perspective... which, to a beginner, looks like a vast, intimidating goal. Narrow the view and lead the person in small steps, then you'll see results if there are to be any.

No, I don't know why it's PHP... since PHP is no better than any other server-side language. So, why is it?

Edited by on 01-09-08 18:17

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RE: Where to start

Posts: 586Location: He is back and he's bad!Joined: 25.11.07 Rank: Mad User

Posted on 01-09-08 18:34

yeah it's no better then any other it's just most spreaded serverside language in web based applications... Thus it's almost essential to know it, and usually when you start to hack you are 'advised' to know html/javascript and php (because usually you start with the web-hacking).

(now sry for not quoting )
For the rest of what you've said, you are right, I also kinda forgot that he's already got primary language... On the other hand even if the begginer feels little overwhelmed with possibilities at first, it's on him to do his homework and choose, I did it basically on my own and I think I chose more then well. When you narrow the possibilities for someone else, you make someone else's choices, which is never good ( unless that someone is really dumb )

[img][/img]

spyware - "They see me trollin'..."<yaragn> ever seen that movie? The Matrix?
<yaragn> with those green lines of flying text?
<yaragn> *THAT'S* Perl

RE: Where to start

And the reason people choose PHP is because it is designed to be simple and easy to learn.

And thanks for the advice so far , as i said i know some basics on Lite-c which is similar to C-Script, so i am now looking at learning C++ .

If anyone Wants to (doesnt have to , as i have found some) recomend any tutorials etc.

Feel Free.

Thanks,
CD

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RE: Where to start

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Posted on 01-09-08 18:53

Alright... that answer works for me concerning PHP. Since we've already determined that the OP knows them, there's not much less to discuss on that.

A lot of us did the work on our own... including me and others on here that are giving advice. It is up to him to do a lot of homework to advance. However, if he's here asking for advice, he's looking for you to narrow the possibilities to help him with his choices. In his first steps, he needs narrow possibilities to get his feet wet... then, as he gains more insight as to what he's needing, he will find the possibilities in languages a bit easier to handle.

The key with mentor threads is that you're not trying to help them get it all on the first try... rather, you're trying to get them ready for the second try.

RE: Where to start

Posts: 586Location: He is back and he's bad!Joined: 25.11.07 Rank: Mad User

Posted on 01-09-08 19:05

Zephyr_Pure wrote:
The key with mentor threads is that you're not trying to help them get it all on the first try... rather, you're trying to get them ready for the second try.

Nothing left to say but you are right however formulation of this question

OP wrote:
Where should i begin my hacking journey?

just doesn't imply this. There is way too much lack of detail, I mean you could as well start with: "Firstly you want to buy computer. Then you switch it on....."

[img][/img]

spyware - "They see me trollin'..."<yaragn> ever seen that movie? The Matrix?
<yaragn> with those green lines of flying text?
<yaragn> *THAT'S* Perl

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RE: Where to start

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Posted on 01-09-08 19:12

Agreed. That's why we are somewhat obligated to let it be understood. Otherwise, we're just wasting our time.

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RE: Where to start

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Posted on 01-09-08 19:12

"Firstly you want to buy computer. Then you switch it on....."

Well TBH i thought that the people answersing the post would use some logic, and work it out.

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RE: Where to start

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Posted on 01-09-08 19:14

Coder Disaster wrote:

"Firstly you want to buy computer. Then you switch it on....."

Well TBH i thought that the people answersing the post would use some logic, and work it out.

Don't put the onus on the responders to determine the focus in your question threads. If you can narrow it down by providing more detail, you're more likely to get a valuable set of responses.

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RE: Where to start

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Posted on 01-09-08 20:20

sharpskater80 wrote:
C languages and Java would be good for game programming. C sharp seems to be used to make life easier with visual things. Python is used for the scripting part. Don't try to code anything worth while in assembly, just use a disassembler to look through apps you make.

What's wrong with coding anything big in assembly? Also, how would it help you to look through apps you wrote and look through them in a disassembler if you don't know assembly?

Zephyr_Pure wrote:
I love how, every time someone asks for advice on where to start, a bunch of noobs jump in the thread and say things like "well, you could learn Ruby cuz its sweet" or some other crap about [insert language here]. You don't need to learn a new language to learn how to hack... you need to learn how to employ those techniques in the languages you already know. If you choose to learn a language, fine, but don't expect it to be any more accomodating when it comes to learning "how to hack".

While it's true that you don't need to learn another programming language when learning how to hack, it can still be helpful. For instance, knowing asm would help you when you disassemble an application that is closed source and you be able to understand how it works, find flaws in it, etc. If you know PHP and MySQL, it will help you when you are doing web-hacking because you can think of how you would write it and where the vulnerabilities could be.

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RE: Where to start

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Posted on 01-09-08 20:31

>>What's wrong with coding anything big in assembly?

Considering he's new. Most people who get into assembly have mastered a low level language prior to that.

>>Also, how would it help you to look through apps you wrote and look through them in a disassembler if you don't know assembly?

Seeing code you already know in disassembly will help you learn the instructions better. That's if you want to do that at all, which probably isn't the case here.

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RE: Where to start

You're kidding right? The entire reason programming languages were invented is so you dont have to use assembly or machine language. ASM is fine for something small, but to try to make anything big and complicated you'd have to understand it on a pretty high level (which most people dont).