1975 - does Orantes have a claim on the year end number 1?

I know that Ashe won Wimbledon and the wct finals. But beyond that he didn't win any masters 1000 equivalents (only made 1 final in those tournaments) Orantes in contrast won roland garros. He won 3 masters 1000 equivalents. Overall he won 8 tournaments and reached 13 finals. Jimmy connors also won no masters 1000 equivalents and only made final of those tournaments.

I know that Ashe won Wimbledon and the wct finals. But beyond that he didn't win any masters 1000 equivalents (only made 1 final in those tournaments) Orantes in contrast won roland garros. He won 3 masters 1000 equivalents. Overall he won 8 tournaments and reached 13 finals. Jimmy connors also won no masters 1000 equivalents and only made final of those tournaments.

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timnz,

I think you mean Orantes won the 1975 US Open not Roland Garros which actually is more in Orantes' favor since I believe the US Open was stronger than the French that year. Problem I see with Orantes is that while he was very good on all surfaces, in 1975 he won tournaments only on clay.

I think you mean Orantes won the 1975 US Open not Roland Garros which actually is more in Orantes' favor since I believe the US Open was stronger than the French that year. Problem I see with Orantes is that while he was very good on all surfaces, in 1975 he won tournaments only on clay.

Yes I can see him with a claim for number one that year.

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Oops yes you are roght! Was just thinking about clay slam, forgetting that at that time forest hills was on cllay.

For someone who reached 13 clay finals that year it is inexplicable. Was he injured?

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Orantes is one of the best players with most injuries, although I cannot recall if he was injuried coming up to RG 75.Zugarelli was a good cc specialist, he even reached the italian Open last match in 77.But, certainly, a straight sets lose with a baggel included is not normal.Orantes won, in 75, not just the USO, he also beat Connors at Indianapolis, Ashe at Boston...and lost the IO finals to Ramirez just a week or so before RG, which makes this early round lose more strange...

Orantes has a case for no.1 in 1975, had a good summer particularly, but I think Arthur Ashe just has a better case winning WCT Dallas and Wimbledon. Orantes and Arthur both had their best year in 1975. Ashe won on more varied surfaces than Orantes overall.
It was a year no one person dominated.
Jimbo got to three Slam finals and lost the lot. He was the most consistent player overall, but didn't win a major, so Ashe is no.1 for me.

Orantes has a case for no.1 in 1975, had a good summer particularly, but I think Arthur Ashe just has a better case winning WCT Dallas and Wimbledon. Orantes and Arthur both had their best year in 1975. Ashe won on more varied surfaces than Orantes overall.
It was a year no one person dominated.
Jimbo got to three Slam finals and lost the lot. He was the most consistent player overall, but didn't win a major, so Ashe is no.1 for me.

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On a subjective basis I think Connors was the best player in the world. If the top ten played a round robin on all surfaces I think Connors would have won easily.

It's one of the those cases again in which the strongest player I believe wasn't number one. And he didn't deserve to be.

Orantes has a case for no.1 in 1975, had a good summer particularly, but I think Arthur Ashe just has a better case winning WCT Dallas and Wimbledon. Orantes and Arthur both had their best year in 1975. Ashe won on more varied surfaces than Orantes overall.
It was a year no one person dominated.
Jimbo got to three Slam finals and lost the lot. He was the most consistent player overall, but didn't win a major, so Ashe is no.1 for me.

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Not to take away from Ashe but other than the Wct finals and wimbledon, were his other wins in events of any consequence? Of the titles that are typically considered the masters 1000 equivalents - arthur didn't win any of them. In fact he only made one final of them. I consider these events to be masters 1000 equivalents that year. The are the top tournaments below the slams and season end finals level (wct finals and the masters)

Is three Masters 1000 tournament equivalents better than 1 WCT final? If so Orantes should have the top position.

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Ashe won the entire WCT tour, with 4 titles, not including Dallas. And I've always understood that the WCT tour, in those days, featured the toughest competition.

I haven't studied the fields of the various events in detail, but I've tracked how the top players did against the rest of the Top Ten throughout the year.

Ashe: 13-9
Orantes: 10-7
Borg: 11-9
Connors: 6-3

The Top Ten competition that Ashe and Orantes faced was very similar, and in fact Ashe has more Top Ten wins than anyone else.

So however the events may be defined in terms of masters equivalents, I would not say that Orantes faced tougher competition than Ashe. Their competition looks comparable.

I agree with PC1, too, that it's a negative for Orantes to have won nothing outside of clay. Ashe's achievements were more diverse: 6 of his 8 titles were on carpet, another on hard and another on grass.

Not to take away from Ashe but other than the Wct finals and wimbledon, were his other wins in events of any consequence? Of the titles that are typically considered the masters 1000 equivalents - arthur didn't win any of them. In fact he only made one final of them. I consider these events to be masters 1000 equivalents that year. The are the top tournaments below the slams and season end finals level (wct finals and the masters)

Ashe did win his segment of the WCT tour, which were splitted into 3 groups. I think, Ashe played in his group with Borg and beat him most of the times. In late summer Ashe also won the LA event, which was big in those times. Connors won the important US clay court on har tru over Borg. I would rank Ashe over Connors with Orantes and Borg for third place.

Ashe won the entire WCT tour, with 4 titles, not including Dallas. And I've always understood that the WCT tour, in those days, featured the toughest competition.

I haven't studied the fields of the various events in detail, but I've tracked how the top players did against the rest of the Top Ten throughout the year.

Ashe: 13-9
Orantes: 10-7
Borg: 11-9
Connors: 6-3

The Top Ten competition that Ashe and Orantes faced was very similar, and in fact Ashe has more Top Ten wins than anyone else.

So however the events may be defined in terms of masters equivalents, I would not say that Orantes faced tougher competition than Ashe. Their competition looks comparable.

I agree with PC1, too, that it's a negative for Orantes to have won nothing outside of clay. Ashe's achievements were more diverse: 6 of his 8 titles were on carpet, another on hard and another on grass.

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This is good analysis. Though I would comment that ashe was wimning his non-dallas wct titles against only a 1/3 of the wct guys.

A journalist that was saying some things he seems to know about the revision of the rankings said literally "The ATP eated 8 draws"(like they ignored 8 draws that they shouldn´t have ignored) I think he was talking only about 1975. Sometimes that journalist have bad memory-don´t explain well the things. I wish he would have given more details.

I read something key was the bonus points, for beating another player located between positions 1-8, or 9 to 16, or 17 to 25. And there was a particular think that year: "duplication of the bonus points for winning two tournaments in a row" And probably other things that I don´t know.

1977 was difficult interpretation, as well as 1978 and 1982, but 1975 was the most complex.
The reason is that while the other three were top - three years , 1975 was the year of the scarce open and was then the top players not emerging shortened the ranking .

The group is made up of top Connors, Borg, Vilas, Ashe and Orantes, who do not have a lot of distance either on the group of the top 10 !!

No one was in a state of grace in 1975 !!
The two aliens were not in shape , Connors was taken from challenge matches , and especially by the case against ATP and the previous disqualification , Borg was not fully blossomed .

To start making a serious analysis must be aware that the two Masters 8draws be excluded (unfairly in my opinion), the ATP finals lost to have a large value (for me unjustly) and that the majors have a few points most of the other major tournaments and tournaments WCT and IPA (Riordan) gave, perhaps, a few points.

From my method exclude tournaments Philadelphia, Tucson and Las Vegas (all top 10) but the final sees two extra top 5 finalists, then no impact on the allocation of number 1.
I exclude, for the time, being the two Masters.

Usually divide the year into four "seasons": 1) indoor, 2) europe, 3) American summer 4) tournaments year-end.

Up to Wimbledon apart from the majors in 1975 happened just as I try to divide the year into three parts

It happened just because Connors prepared to challenge two brands of Las Vegas against Laver and Newcombe and participated in tournaments IPA / easy), who won the tournament the best is a good Denver WCT (but as we read on the internet was only in preparation for the challenge match against Newk !!)
Borg and Ashe they divided the WCT circuit.
Orantes and Vilas did not win nothing sensational.

Ashe to me first with a slight margin on the group.
Then all close and conscious of the fact that Connors could not be the first but missed the finals are more weighed I put 3rd

My ranking is then:
1) ASHE
2) ORANTES
3) CONNORS
4) BORG
5) VILAS

Last consideration: my ranking has nothing to do with the actual strength of 5. The best Connors was clearly that for a number of circumstances lost primacy.
1) CONNORS
2) ASHE
3) BORG
4) Orantes
5) VILAS

But that does not matter. Count the results not being the best !!! So first Ashe.

Ashe to me first with a slight margin on the group.
Then to close and conscious of the fact Connors That could not be the first but missed the finals are weighed Opinions more I put 3rd

Another exception to Vilas, who is 2nd in the ATP rankings Because it has done well in the non -Major tournaments, but I prefer the Orantes (it felt stronger in Argentina's 75 and won the US Open) and Connors (Because not lost many finals allow him to claim the number one, but I think the podium is).

My ranking is then:
1) ASHE
2) Orantes
3) CONNORS
4) VILAS
5) BORG

Last consideration: my ranking has nothing to do with the actual strength of 5. The best Connors Clearly That was for a number of Circumstances lost primacy.
1) CONNORS
2) ASHE
3) BORG
4) Orantes
5) VILAS

But That does not matter. Count the results not being the best !!! So first Ashe.