I need a bit of an education...I'm chasing better accuracy and looking to buy and have installed on my Remington 700 SPS Varmit a new stock. When I show up to the gunsmith's front door with a rifle and stock, what do I tell him/her to do? Is it simply "put this on" or do I need to talk about bedding the barrel, maintaining a floating barrel, etc?

I've generally done load development and testing before messing with the bedding. Establish a baseline. Generally for me, 1/2 MOA has been as good as I've wanted. I've had a few rifles that were that good from the git-go. Others, yup, work was needed on the bedding.

My first step has been with tweaking the forearm. Free-float, but just barely clear out at the end. I shim for maybe five pounds of pressure against the barrel, using a strip of kitchen wax paper, folded as needed for thickness. Shooting heats the wax, so probably it's no more than a three-pound push against the barrel. Consistent success with that method. (Courtesy my gunsmith uncle, some forty years ago.)

If that doesn't work, then, yeah, some sort of bedding system for the receiver.

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Over decades of competitive shooting in on discipline and noting what those in other disciplines succede with, those who win the matches and set the records do not have anything touching their barrels except the receiver. And they allow lots of room between the stock's fore end so its natural bending from shooting positions will not let it touch the barrel.

I am convinced that anyone believing that pressure, even the slightest amount, put on the barrel any place by the fore end will be repeatable from shot to shot, does not understand all the mechanics involved. This aside, if the receiver's horribly fit to sloppy inletting around it, then some fore end contact will be necessary for the rifle to shoot half way decent as it rests atop something on a bench. But it's zero will change if shot prone, standing or sitting because the stock's pressure on the barrel is not the same for each shooting postion and that make the barrel whip differently between them.

Even a pad an inch or two long under the chamber area has more pressure on it as the barrel heats up from cold to hot and expands in diameter; vertical shot stringing happens but you'll never see it unless you can shoot that rifle with your ammo no worse than 1/4 MOA at 100 yards.

It's easy to measure how much a stock's fore end bends depending on how the rifle's held. Do it and you'll probably be very surprised.

And so I believe that free-floating and pillar-bedding are the first things I do with a stock on any basic stock rifle, only as Art mentioned I have fired the rifle to get a hold on what I'm looking to make it do and be capable of.

Even a pad an inch or two long under the chamber area has more pressure on it as the barrel heats up from cold to hot and expands in diameter; vertical shot stringing happens but you'll never see it unless you can shoot that rifle with your ammo no worse than 1/4 MOA at 100 yards.

Bart you have more experience than I likely ever will. In a match rifle, how much of a diameter change are you measuring in the chamber area?

Also, a bit off topic, but looking at the 10/22, how would you bed that action?

I've never measured a barrel for its exact dimensional changes, but it does expand several millionths of an inch.

My only tests back in the 1960's with chamber area pads all started out shooting groups at 600 or 1000 yards, then routing out the epoxy that was 2 inchs in front of the receiver. Bolt guns chambered for .308 Win, .264 Win. Mag. and .30-.338 Win. Mag. Groups had about 1 to 1.5 MOA vertical stringing starting with a cold barrel. For each half inch of the epoxy removed, vertical stringing lessened. So I figured out that if there was zero bedding under the chamber area, there would be zero things to cause vertical shot stringing.

Others have learned this from tests conducted back in the late 1950's and early 1960's when epoxy bedding was first done. But there are some folks who insist on doing it.

__________________
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Former US Navy & Palma Rifle Team Member
NRA High Power Master & Long Range High Master
NRA Smallbore Prone Master

I'm one of the folks who bed an inch or two of barrel, just ahead of the receiver. I believe that the extra bedding length helps to increase bedding area, especially in length.

My metallurgy knowledge is not of a mechanical engineer, but have been told that round bars tend to lengthen when heated and that diameter is not as affected. Be that as it may, but many rifles, especially those with flat bottoms have shot better for me when bedded that way, especially for wooden stocks and epoxy bedding. Perhaps if a stock was made of metal, and had almost no flex, the rifle would string vertically, but I've yet to find any stringing.

Regarding 10-22 bedding. I've written several articles on bedding and other accuracy-improving tips, some of which are posted in the Tips and Tricks Forum of RimfireCentral.com. One tip involves how to eliminate first-shot flyers.

Picher, "tube guns" are made with tubular metal for most of their parts. They hold zeros from day to day much better than wood or synthetic stocks. And not one bit of shot stringing in any direction.

Unlike wood or synthetic stocks, metal expands/contracts less with temperature changes and humidity has no effect whatsoever. No longer does one need to loosen then retouque the stock screws as temperature changes. Anschutz puts wave washers on their free and English match rifle's front and rear wood stock screws to keep them close to the same 20 to 30 inch pounds of torque the owner gets best accuracy with as the environment changes through the day.

__________________
US Navy Distinguished Marksman Badge 153
Former US Navy & Palma Rifle Team Member
NRA High Power Master & Long Range High Master
NRA Smallbore Prone Master

You really do not even know if you need to bed the action before you shoot it. Your gun might be plenty accurate simply by changing the stock that you needn't spend money bedding the action.

Also, with a simple torque wrench you can change the stock yourself. Here is My Remington 700 SPS Varmint after I changed the stock a couple of weeks ago. Now it consistently shoots about 1/4" at 100 yards and 3" at 600.

I build rifles, some pretty good ones, and I agree that the rifle does not need the bedding at the rear of the barrel for accuracy. Some rifles that have issues with the bedding need it for stability and consistency, but in general it is not needed.

It really depends on the stock you are using how you bed the rifle. Pillars are only there to stop the stock material from compressing when you tighten down the action screws. Some stocks use a full length bedding block and may not require any bedding at all.

Regardless of wood/laminate or synthetic stocks I like all my stocks to be bedded. With wood and laminated stocks I always bed the barrel channel as well as well as the action just to stabilize the wood and to prevent problems with moisture or lack there of from affecting accuracy. You can free float the barrel as well with a full length bedding just use a few layers of tape on the barrel. Synthetics I usually only bed the action and recoil lug area, and if needed like Scorch says a couple inches of barrel. My synthetics and wood/laminate stocks always get pillars unless they have the bedding block.

"I am convinced that anyone believing that pressure, even the slightest amount, put on the barrel any place by the fore end will be repeatable from shot to shot, does not understand all the mechanics involved."

Gigglesnort. Since my deal has worked for me, I don't have to understand it. Just enjoy sub-MOA.

But, hey, Bart, you're most likely correct.

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Love those Remingtons.... With those heavy barrels, I have had my best luck bedding the action and lug and maybe 1 1/2 inches forward of the lug, and then free floating the barrel. I never have had one of the heavy barreled Remingtons that wouldn't shoot great with that treatment, but I readily admit my experience with pillar bedding is very limited. Guys seem to have very good lucky with those as well.

Picher, "tube guns" are made with tubular metal for most of their parts. They hold zeros from day to day much better than wood or synthetic stocks. And not one bit of shot stringing in any direction.

Absolutely right Bart. However, I'm not a 3P shooter and abhor the thought of shooting an all-metal rifle. They seem like something a robot would use. I don't even like synthetic stocks, but have them on benchrest and deer hunting rifles.

I've pillar-bedded most of my wood-stocked rifles and find them more comfortable to use in both hot and cold weather. They don't seem to shift POI and are quiet in the woods/brush.

A couple of days ago, I shot a two of my wood-stocked pillar-bedded sporters, a .243 Remington 700 and a .223 Tikka 595, testing new loads and they made (3 shot), 1/2" and 3/8" groups respectively at 100 yards. (Vertical dispersion was .2" and .1"), but there was a bit of variable crosswind and I wasn't using wind flags. Not bad for "old" technology.

I believe most of the records in NRA high power bolt action match rifle competition are held by rifles with conventional epoxy bedding; none are pillar bedded. The philosopsy of the 'smith building those few which hold more than their fair share of the records is that pillar bedding only has 2 or 3 hard contact points against the receiver's bottom. Conventional epoxy bedding has most all of the receiver bottom hard against the bedding.

__________________
US Navy Distinguished Marksman Badge 153
Former US Navy & Palma Rifle Team Member
NRA High Power Master & Long Range High Master
NRA Smallbore Prone Master

Has anyone tried the "drop-in" aluminum bedding block for the Model 700? What has to be done to the stock to make it work? I would assume drilling for the pillars at least. Its more costly than a glass bedding kit but looks like it would be quicker and easier installation. It should also lift the action slightly allowing the barrel to float. Just wondering if they were worth the money. If so it might be something for the OP to look into.

__________________"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading"

I like the bedding block in my HS Precision (Sendero) stock on my Rem 700 BDL, but put a skim-coat of epoxy on it to make a perfect fit. The rifle shoots really well. There's extra space on each side of the sporter barrel, but I haven't wanted to fill it in. The barrel cools faster this way.

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