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You win AGAIN there buddy....you're just too smart for me to 'have a discussion with'.....
I feel so sorry for you getting stuck in this trade with all us dumb a$$es.....I bow to you AGAIN......

Doug, I think we are ALL basically smart people. We just need to refuse to blindly accept the releases from the legacy media that merely repeats what their favored party says and which many folks still take as being gospel.

I think HVAC guys are some of the smartest folks around, and I am happy to be one of them. Our trade requires a synergy and a versatility that is rarely seen elsewhere.

We were promised "the most open and transparent new administration and congress in history," when in fact, ALL of the legislative machinations that our new president promised we would see on CSPAN (in the US, the Cable Satellite Public Affairs Network) have instead been held behind closed doors in committees, with the minority party and the cameras shut OUT.

Unfortunately for my cousins in BC, and for you and my other Canadian friends, your economy is tied to ours, and right now, we have cabinet heads and elected leaders that neither understand nor value the form of economic system that has allowed us all to prosper.

Doug, I think we are ALL basically smart people. We just need to refuse to blindly accept the releases from the legacy media that merely repeats what their favored party says and which many folks still take as being gospel.

I think HVAC guys are some of the smartest folks around, and I am happy to be one of them. Our trade requires a synergy and a versatility that is rarely seen elsewhere.

We were promised "the most open and transparent new administration and congress in history," when in fact, ALL of the legislative machinations that our new president promised we would see on CSPAN (in the US, the Cable Satellite Public Affairs Network) have instead been held behind closed doors in committees, with the minority party and the cameras shut OUT.

Unfortunately for my cousins in BC, and for you and my other Canadian friends, your economy is tied to ours, and right now, we have cabinet heads and elected leaders that neither understand nor value the form of economic system that has allowed us all to prosper.

TB.....you are obviously an intelligent man......that being considered, at what point did you decide to completely avoid common sense, past experiences, proven track records thus and TRUST what any politician said/says. Most politicians are so crooked they could hide behind a corkscrew as well as having egos and greed bags the size of Mt. Everest! Of course that would be 'profiling on my part' but as I said to my techs on about Wednesday of this week we in the troubleshooting industry are hammered into this by our past experiences.....if its a 3D compressor vibrating then the cylinder closest to the incoming liquid/vapour probably has a broken con rod or reeds....BUT this PC correct world says ignore the obvious ....... in our industry it'd get you bankrupt.....

We know that whenever something is taxed, you get less of that thing. If you tax investors, you get less investment. If you tax bonuses, there is less money for the intended recipient to spend on consumer goods, housing, or investments that fund job creation.

We know that socialism has failed, wherever and whenever it has been tried. We also know the the traditional American approach to economics has brought untold wealth to the world. The foreign aid that flows out of the US is second to none in the generosity of amount and the diversity of recipient countries.

We know that if you give a man a fish and fail to require that he learns to fish for himself, he must come back to you tomorrow for another fish. If you can keep the fish-giving approach going, the man will have to re-elect you to office every time, and the man will eventually feel personally justified that he is entitled to a free fish everyday. This is what the US's "war on poverty" has brought us: more poor people than ever before, and a defective culture of entitlement that produces nothing but discontent.

We also know that when the US reduced the marginal tax rate, more money than ever before flowed into the Treasury, because the "pie" became larger and more jobs were created by private industry. We know that if the government were to suddenly declare that we had made too much money, we would scream loudly. Why then would we not scream just as loudly when this happens to someone else? The answer is that the media has fomented a hatred of class envy, when in reality we should all be striving to be our best, and not be so concerned with what other people have. The Bible calls that "covetousness."

We know that Life is by nature "unfair," and we know that all attempts to make life fair have and will fail miserably. This is why socialism always fails, yet succeeds at robbing us of our freedom and liberty. We know that our Founders greatest desire was for us to remain a free and sovereign nation, and we know that our freedom is being deconstructed as I type this on my Blackberry by a group of legislators whose greatest glory is their own self-aggrandizement and whose singular lust is power over millions.

That's a lot to know, Doug, and yet still allow these things to go on.

Ok. Let's talk for a moment about "what we know."We know that whenever something is taxed, you get less of that thing. If you tax investors, you get less investment. If you tax bonuses, there is less money for the intended recipient to spend on consumer goods, housing, or investments that fund job creation.We know that socialism has failed, wherever and whenever it has been tried. We also know the the traditional American approach to economics has brought untold wealth to the world. The foreign aid that flows out of the US is second to none in the generosity of amount and the diversity of recipient countries. We know that if you give a man a fish and fail to require that he learns to fish for himself, he must come back to you tomorrow for another fish. If you can keep the fish-giving approach going, the man will have to re-elect you to officer every time, and the man will eventually feel personally justified that he is entitled to a free fish everyday. This is what the US's "war on poverty" has brought us: more poor people than ever before, and a defective culture of entitlement that produces nothing but discontent. We also know that when the US reduced the marginal tax rate, more money than ever before flowed into the Treasury, because the "pie" became larger and more jobs were created by private industry. We know that if the government were to suddenly declare that we had made too much money, we would scream loudly. Why then would we not scream just as loudly when this happens to someone else? The answer is that the media has fomented a hatred of class envy, when in reality we should all be striving to be our best, and not be so concerned with what other people have. The Bible calls that "covetousness."We know that Life is by nature "unfair," and we know that all attempts to make life fair have and will fail miserably. This is why socialism always fails, yet succeeds at robbing us of our freedom and liberty. We know that our Founders greatest desire was for us to remain a free and sovereign nation, and we know that our freedom is being deconstructed as I type this on my Blackberry by a group of legisltors whose greatest glory is their own self-aggrandizement and whose singular lust is power over millions. That's a lot to know, Doug, and yet still allow these things to go on.

not talking about taxes...I'm talking about the personal principles and morals of a person/society that 'dictates that it's an inalienable right in the free enterprise system be as gluttonous as they want to be'.....
Is it OK if one man has 100,000 tons of fish and then says to the starving guy...no you need to 'learn how to fish'.....you tell me.....
How 'bout we look at Tiger....how's that 'right to accrue and build the exponential of the 9th degree of what he needs' working out for him? Books, bibles, charter of rights in Canada, constitution in USA....it's all BS.....the laws of human nature/fairness/right/wrong will ALWAYS prevail eventually.
In the meantime 'attraction by example rather than promotion' will not only help you live happier....it will help change the world in smaller degrees ..... the crooked dumb a$$ed politicians will still be what they will be.....
449 and what the bleep to we know....

not talking about taxes...I'm talking about the personal principles and morals of a person/society that 'dictates that it's an inalienable right in the free enterprise system be as gluttonous as they want to be'.....

Fair enough. But in a free society, it is not our place to determine who is gluttonous and who is not. It is, as you say, a personal idea, and not one of national policy.

Originally Posted by Doug Lockhart

Is it OK if one man has 100,000 tons of fish and then says to the starving guy...no you need to 'learn how to fish'.....you tell me.....

The chances are extremely good that this guy with all the fish is not only a part of the top 5% of citizens who pay the vast majority of tax money into our treasury, but most likely provides many charitable gifts to various agencies and funds. This top 5% gives not merely what some might call "their fair share," but almost all of the taxes paid come from a relatively small group of citizens. The top 25% of wage earners pay just under 84% of all US income taxes. We should all strive to become one of them.

The bottom 50% of wage earners pay.......are you ready? 3.46% of US taxes.

Also, there is no basis to posit that the man with all those fish is ever telling a starving man to go fish. That is a specious argument. I have been rich and poor, and I can tell you that you have a much better chance of getting a fish, if you genuinely need one, from someone who has the fish to spare. But, I'm getting a Haddock talking about this.

Originally Posted by Doug Lockhart

How 'bout we look at Tiger....how's that 'right to accrue and build the exponential of the 9th degree of what he needs' working out for him? Books, bibles, charter of rights in Canada, constitution in USA....it's all BS.....the laws of human nature/fairness/right/wrong will ALWAYS prevail eventually.

It's fine for him to profit from his golf, his endorsements, etc. He is already being punished by his advertisers, at least, those who care. He isn't being punished by any "law of human nature," unless you include acting stupidly in those laws. In that event, he is being punished for his own stupidity, and he is the punisher. Ironic. But once again, not a basis for policy.

Originally Posted by Doug Lockhart

In the meantime 'attraction by example rather than promotion' will not only help you live happier....it will help change the world in smaller degrees ..... the crooked dumb a$$ed politicians will still be what they will be.....

449 and what the bleep to we know....

I have to admit, I have no idea about your references to "449."

Finally, you made some tangential reference to my listening to or trusting a politician. I'm not sure upon what you based that assertion, but if you knew me better, you would know that I see politicians as a necessary factor in a representative republic, and that it is incumbent upon all of us to be well informed about them and their beliefs so that we can make good choices in whom we elect.

It is for this reason that I am so disappointed in our current President, or more accurately in those who elected him by their vote. It was observed during the campaign that he is a 'blank slate," upon which the voter can project his own beliefs and mistakenly assign them to that candidate. For millions of our people, that is exactly what happened, like the story of the group of blind men and the elephant.