I was not insinuating anything about trading down. Im not opposed to (trading down) but I d hate that they pass up on a legit LT prospect to move down and take "lesser" players like Milliner and Banks just for the sake of "value" - and then blow those extra picks later on. The point was,

I couldn't agree more. Just like I was screaming last year, WE NEED STARTERS, period! I was watching what Kontz was doing for the Falcons yesterday and I was furious. He's playing RG (a position that he has no business playing, he doesn't have that sort of strength), and taking on Suh one on one. Don't get me wrong, our interior DL owned their interior OL, but the fact of the matter is, the guy is supposed to be playing OC. He's just supposed to be "helping," he's not supposed to be taking on guys one on one, yet they trust him to do it. Meanwhile, our 2nd round pick, the guy that we drafted while injured, is... guess where... on injury reserve.

The Legend wrote:

I dont buy the BPA story thats being spun bc the players we ve been getting quite frankly, dont seem to be worth much and that they seem to follow a pattern of certain positions being valued more highly than others.

Again, I couldn't agree more. Take the example above. Is a starting caliber OG/OC really a lesser value than a #2/3 WR that's on IR?

You can't even argue "BPA at the time of the draft. There were people that had Kontz ranked in the first round, and some had Broyles not going until the 4th or 5th.

The Legend wrote:

we cant focus on just on one pick and overlook the bigger picture. There are multiple needs as the roster stands today. There are going to be more when the season ends and Free Agency starts. Pretty much anything they pick is going to be a need outside of a 1st rd QB. Even if they took a 1st rd DT and used that as a way to move to a 3-4 D, it would probably save them 15 mill in DE money. They need to land good players wherever they can - all rounds of the draft, free agency, trades.

I agree with you in theory, but IMO it wouldn't be smart for us to switch to a 3-4. It may save us money, but it highlights an area that we're not really good at, our LB corps. Now, if we're experimenting with it in practice and Willie Young is killing it as a stand up, pass rushing LB, by all means go for it. At that point we're not really "losing" anything, we're just getting more out of Willie, but that aside, we don't really need to be switching to a scheme that focuses on LBs, when ours flat out suck.

The Legend wrote:

Switching gears, I think the Front Office is also making a strange move by not clarifying offseason plans with the coaching staff. When the team is sitting at 4-8 and is out of playoff contention you would think the last 4 weeks would be used to see whats left on the roster. Why arent guys on the OL like Fox, Reiff, and Hilliard that could all be cheaper alternatives to Backus, Peterman, Cherilus or some combination thereof getting a look? Why dont we see more of Palmer, Whitehead and T Lewis at LB with Durant and Levy hitting FA? R. Lewis at DE? The only experimentation I ve seen has been w this guy Chapas at FB and street players in the secondary and at WR but thats bc of injuries not voluntary experimentation. What does this mean? I dont know but the options are 1) there is very little confidence in the younger, cheaper players that are riding the pine - the ones that might make the impeding FA doom manageable, 2) the front office has no intention of replacing the older veterans on the roster or 3) the coordinators and head coach are all coaching for their jobs and dont want to risk putting out an inferior product.

I would contend legend that it's not 1, 2, OR 3 as you brought up, but rather 1, 2, AND 3.

The Legend wrote:

Im just not convinced the Lions are looking into their own future instead functioning oblivious to their current record (why arent they rolling the dice on 4th and 1 from the 2 down by 8 in the 4th or practicing 2 minute drill at the end of 1st halves?) and impending free agency (not playing the potential diamonds in the rough?).

Further evidence of this was the Mike Thomas pick up. We continue to throw away draft picks on mediocre players. Trading up to get Lewis seems flat out idiotic at this point. He's not the "value" that was promised. He's obviously still struggling, and he IS the 5th to 7th round "project player" that most teams thought he was. He ISN'T the "steal of the draft" worth trading up to get. Same with Javid Best... It seems to me that 1) we use our later round draft picks horribly, 2) we don't develop our players properly, and 3) every time we trade up thinking we're getting a "steal" we end up with a steaming pile of garbage.

December 23rd, 2012, 5:01 pm

The Legend

Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5043Location: WSU

Re: Dream Defensive Coordinator

wjb21ndtown wrote:

The Legend"

[quote="The Legend wrote:

Switching gears, I think the Front Office is also making a strange move by not clarifying offseason plans with the coaching staff. When the team is sitting at 4-8 and is out of playoff contention you would think the last 4 weeks would be used to see whats left on the roster. Why arent guys on the OL like Fox, Reiff, and Hilliard that could all be cheaper alternatives to Backus, Peterman, Cherilus or some combination thereof getting a look? Why dont we see more of Palmer, Whitehead and T Lewis at LB with Durant and Levy hitting FA? R. Lewis at DE? The only experimentation I ve seen has been w this guy Chapas at FB and street players in the secondary and at WR but thats bc of injuries not voluntary experimentation. What does this mean? I dont know but the options are 1) there is very little confidence in the younger, cheaper players that are riding the pine - the ones that might make the impeding FA doom manageable, 2) the front office has no intention of replacing the older veterans on the roster or 3) the coordinators and head coach are all coaching for their jobs and dont want to risk putting out an inferior product.

I would contend legend that it's not 1, 2, OR 3 as you brought up, but rather 1, 2, AND 3.

I was going to write more about this but yes I also agree - its 1, 2, and 3 which I think is the worst combination of the three things and a sign of the indecision in the front office and ownership.

As for the stuff on the 3-4, thats just an idea that perhaps could work given our salary cap issues. Its not something Im advocating for at this point. It was just to point out that they need to consider creative options and really could draft any position early on with the amoutn of holes they have - just need to ensure its a great player.

I think before the Lions ever look at a 3-4 set they should try the 4-3 Seattle has with the 3 DTs and the "Leo" lined up wide one on one with the OT. They would get kind of a similar effect as going to a 3-4 but without needing a full overhaul at the LB spots. If I were them I would take a hard look at Ken Norton Jr and have him come in as DC if he looked ready and could bring the scheme with him, also what he's done with the LBs in Seattle possibly could improve the project LBs Mayhew and Schwartz like to draft.

December 24th, 2012, 12:55 am

The Legend

Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5043Location: WSU

Re: Dream Defensive Coordinator

rao wrote:

I think before the Lions ever look at a 3-4 set they should try the 4-3 Seattle has with the 3 DTs and the "Leo" lined up wide one on one with the OT. They would get kind of a similar effect as going to a 3-4 but without needing a full overhaul at the LB spots. If I were them I would take a hard look at Ken Norton Jr and have him come in as DC if he looked ready and could bring the scheme with him, also what he's done with the LBs in Seattle possibly could improve the project LBs Mayhew and Schwartz like to draft.

i agree its a good idea to consider. the other thing that stands out about the SEA defense is there size - with the bigger "DE/DT" in Bryant, the huge corners in Browner, Sherman and a huge safety in Chancellor and KJ Wright being especially tall for an OLB. it would be difficult for the lions to make that transition quickly but i think its a great thought

December 24th, 2012, 10:53 am

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Dream Defensive Coordinator

The Legend wrote:

but I d hate that they pass up on a legit LT prospect to move down and take "lesser" players like Milliner and Banks just for the sake of "value" -

I understand what you are saying, but who says players like Milliner and Banks are "lesser players"? Just because right now they are a couple spots lower on some draft boards?

So lets say those two were ranked higher, would it not be alright now to trade down and take a "legit LT" in Joeckel?

Im not arguing with you by any means, but I just dont agree that you cant trade down and STILL get "starters" like WJB is talking about. I agree this team needs starters, and multiple starters. And was also mentioned we cant fix it all in this draft. So why not move down, grab a starter and possibly two out of the deal, and next year we have a chance and having possibly 2 starters drafted in the 1st round?

Hey, if we stay put and lets say we take Luke Joeckel. Id be fine with it. Id be fine if they stayed put and even didnt take Joeckel. But the way Im looking at this whole thing anyway as, is after FA there is a great chance we are going to really need defensive players as if we dont already. Atlanta just put up 31 points on us. We all have opinions which is fine, but I cant be convinced that we shouldnt take a defensive player with our first pick.

I think before the Lions ever look at a 3-4 set they should try the 4-3 Seattle has with the 3 DTs and the "Leo" lined up wide one on one with the OT. They would get kind of a similar effect as going to a 3-4 but without needing a full overhaul at the LB spots. If I were them I would take a hard look at Ken Norton Jr and have him come in as DC if he looked ready and could bring the scheme with him, also what he's done with the LBs in Seattle possibly could improve the project LBs Mayhew and Schwartz like to draft.

i agree its a good idea to consider. the other thing that stands out about the SEA defense is there size - with the bigger "DE/DT" in Bryant, the huge corners in Browner, Sherman and a huge safety in Chancellor and KJ Wright being especially tall for an OLB. it would be difficult for the lions to make that transition quickly but i think its a great thought

We already have the large half of the line with Hill, Fairley, and Suh as long as they dont let Hill. If they also resign Williams cheap he could rotate with the other three. I would be worried about the "Leo" spot which is what Clemons fills for SEA. I don't think we have a fast DE that can win one on one. For the back seven I dont think it would be that hard to get the big guys like SEA since most teams have been going for the smaller faster types.

December 24th, 2012, 6:53 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Dream Defensive Coordinator

kdsberman wrote:

The Legend wrote:

but I d hate that they pass up on a legit LT prospect to move down and take "lesser" players like Milliner and Banks just for the sake of "value" -

I understand what you are saying, but who says players like Milliner and Banks are "lesser players"? Just because right now they are a couple spots lower on some draft boards?

So lets say those two were ranked higher, would it not be alright now to trade down and take a "legit LT" in Joeckel?

Im not arguing with you by any means, but I just dont agree that you cant trade down and STILL get "starters" like WJB is talking about. I agree this team needs starters, and multiple starters. And was also mentioned we cant fix it all in this draft. So why not move down, grab a starter and possibly two out of the deal, and next year we have a chance and having possibly 2 starters drafted in the 1st round?

Hey, if we stay put and lets say we take Luke Joeckel. Id be fine with it. Id be fine if they stayed put and even didnt take Joeckel. But the way Im looking at this whole thing anyway as, is after FA there is a great chance we are going to really need defensive players as if we dont already. Atlanta just put up 31 points on us. We all have opinions which is fine, but I cant be convinced that we shouldnt take a defensive player with our first pick.

Fire away WJB, im sure i just burned your a** with that.

I would would love land Milliner, or Teo, but my issue with it is three fold:1) We can't get a starting caliber, rookie LT later in the draft, and it looks like we're going to need one;2) It's justifiable to pay an LT top 5 pick money (although I will admit that this argument has been weakened by the new rookie pay scale); and3) Even if we did add two "starters" to the defense (hell, make it three), the defense would still suck. We CAN fix the offense and fix the offense completely with this draft and offseason. No matter what we do on the defensive side of the ball it will still need work the offseason after this one.

Further, we've lost more games due to our offense being inept than our D. We can't sustain drives and close out games. We won't ever be a winning football club if we don't fix our OL. The one constant in our multi-decade struggle is that our offensive line has been pure garbage since Jeff Hartings left.

December 24th, 2012, 7:44 pm

The Legend

Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5043Location: WSU

Re: Dream Defensive Coordinator

kdsberman wrote:

The Legend wrote:

but I d hate that they pass up on a legit LT prospect to move down and take "lesser" players like Milliner and Banks just for the sake of "value" -

I understand what you are saying, but who says players like Milliner and Banks are "lesser players"? Just because right now they are a couple spots lower on some draft boards?

So lets say those two were ranked higher, would it not be alright now to trade down and take a "legit LT" in Joeckel?

Im not arguing with you by any means, but I just dont agree that you cant trade down and STILL get "starters" like WJB is talking about. I agree this team needs starters, and multiple starters. And was also mentioned we cant fix it all in this draft. So why not move down, grab a starter and possibly two out of the deal, and next year we have a chance and having possibly 2 starters drafted in the 1st round?

Hey, if we stay put and lets say we take Luke Joeckel. Id be fine with it. Id be fine if they stayed put and even didnt take Joeckel. But the way Im looking at this whole thing anyway as, is after FA there is a great chance we are going to really need defensive players as if we dont already. Atlanta just put up 31 points on us. We all have opinions which is fine, but I cant be convinced that we shouldnt take a defensive player with our first pick.

Fire away WJB, im sure i just burned your a** with that.

kds - i agree with you. Lets suppose the Lions had a plan - lets say like me where I believe Taylor Lewan is a better athlete than Joeckel though Joeckel might be a better lineman right now. I would be perfectly fine with a smoke screen where we pretend we re going to take a certain player but instead secretly want Lewan who the team has equally ranked. In that situation - I would agree lets move backwards, grab whatever extra pick and still get the player we wanted all along. I d love that. My post was basically saying I would be opposed to the idea of trading backwards in the draft, simply for the sake of accumulating extra picks without planning out how those picks might turn out. We ve seen the Lions do stupid things like accumulate 3 2nd round picks and then take Drew Stanton, Ikaika Alama Francis and Gerald Alexander with those picks, so while accumulating extra picks might seem great when the trade is intiially made Id rather they think out what they might get bc they ve proven to us that the pick isnt worth anything until you turn it into a good player.

December 25th, 2012, 11:33 am

The Legend

Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5043Location: WSU

Re: Dream Defensive Coordinator

rao wrote:

The Legend wrote:

rao wrote:

I think before the Lions ever look at a 3-4 set they should try the 4-3 Seattle has with the 3 DTs and the "Leo" lined up wide one on one with the OT. They would get kind of a similar effect as going to a 3-4 but without needing a full overhaul at the LB spots. If I were them I would take a hard look at Ken Norton Jr and have him come in as DC if he looked ready and could bring the scheme with him, also what he's done with the LBs in Seattle possibly could improve the project LBs Mayhew and Schwartz like to draft.

i agree its a good idea to consider. the other thing that stands out about the SEA defense is there size - with the bigger "DE/DT" in Bryant, the huge corners in Browner, Sherman and a huge safety in Chancellor and KJ Wright being especially tall for an OLB. it would be difficult for the lions to make that transition quickly but i think its a great thought

We already have the large half of the line with Hill, Fairley, and Suh as long as they dont let Hill. If they also resign Williams cheap he could rotate with the other three. I would be worried about the "Leo" spot which is what Clemons fills for SEA. I don't think we have a fast DE that can win one on one. For the back seven I dont think it would be that hard to get the big guys like SEA since most teams have been going for the smaller faster types.

Avril is pretty similar to Clemons so they wouldnt have to look far. SEA also mixes in Bruce Irvin in obvious pass rush situations. I think the Lions could probably find a LB similar to Wright but they re going to have a much harder time finding 3 more players in the secondary. Browner and Sherman - guys like that dont grow on trees. Teams are using the smaller corners bc most of the corners are smaller and its hard to find 6'3 and 6'4 corners that can play. What SEA has done is impressive bc they got them all via nonexpensive means - Safety: Chancellor Rd 5, CB: Sherman Rd 5, OLB: Wright Rd 4, DE: Clemons and a 4th rd pick (gave up Daryl Tapp in trade w PHI), DE: Bryant (4th rd), DT : Branch (2 yrs 7mill as UFA), DT : Mebane (3rd Rd), OLB : Hill (3rd rd), MLB : Wagner (Rd 2), CB : Browner (CFL scrap heap). The only 1st rounders are starting S Earl Thomas and pass rusher Bruce Irvin.

I think before the Lions ever look at a 3-4 set they should try the 4-3 Seattle has with the 3 DTs and the "Leo" lined up wide one on one with the OT. They would get kind of a similar effect as going to a 3-4 but without needing a full overhaul at the LB spots. If I were them I would take a hard look at Ken Norton Jr and have him come in as DC if he looked ready and could bring the scheme with him, also what he's done with the LBs in Seattle possibly could improve the project LBs Mayhew and Schwartz like to draft.

i agree its a good idea to consider. the other thing that stands out about the SEA defense is there size - with the bigger "DE/DT" in Bryant, the huge corners in Browner, Sherman and a huge safety in Chancellor and KJ Wright being especially tall for an OLB. it would be difficult for the lions to make that transition quickly but i think its a great thought

We already have the large half of the line with Hill, Fairley, and Suh as long as they dont let Hill. If they also resign Williams cheap he could rotate with the other three. I would be worried about the "Leo" spot which is what Clemons fills for SEA. I don't think we have a fast DE that can win one on one. For the back seven I dont think it would be that hard to get the big guys like SEA since most teams have been going for the smaller faster types.

Avril is pretty similar to Clemons so they wouldnt have to look far. SEA also mixes in Bruce Irvin in obvious pass rush situations. I think the Lions could probably find a LB similar to Wright but they re going to have a much harder time finding 3 more players in the secondary. Browner and Sherman - guys like that dont grow on trees. Teams are using the smaller corners bc most of the corners are smaller and its hard to find 6'3 and 6'4 corners that can play. What SEA has done is impressive bc they got them all via nonexpensive means - Safety: Chancellor Rd 5, CB: Sherman Rd 5, OLB: Wright Rd 4, DE: Clemons and a 4th rd pick (gave up Daryl Tapp in trade w PHI), DE: Bryant (4th rd), DT : Branch (2 yrs 7mill as UFA), DT : Mebane (3rd Rd), OLB : Hill (3rd rd), MLB : Wagner (Rd 2), CB : Browner (CFL scrap heap). The only 1st rounders are starting S Earl Thomas and pass rusher Bruce Irvin.

I think all these players show that the Lions could build a similar defense very quickly as long as they are looking for the right type of player and not just drafting the perceived best player available. Most of the SEA guys were taken late because though they had size they may not have run great or had the speed and size but looked like big projects. Sherman and Browner are great, but the Seahawks have also done well with Thurmond, Trufant, and the rookie Lane who are all 6' or under. Safties like Chancellor aren't hard to find since he's more of an old school SS, large and hard hitting, he ran in the 4.6 range and teams prefer the cover safties now. Its Thomas we really wont have anything similar too. Thomas is a complete safety which Delmas even when healthy doesn't seem to be, but that could also be the fact no coach on this team teaches fundamentals like tackling or not letting the receivers behind you when your the safety. I really do believe it would be a quick task to recreate a defense like SEA, but it would require a cohesive plan and that's something this staff doesn't do because taking the best guy that falls in your lap isn't a plan it's just a reaction.

December 25th, 2012, 3:39 pm

The Legend

Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5043Location: WSU

Re: Dream Defensive Coordinator

Quote:

but it would require a cohesive plan and that's something this staff doesn't do because taking the best guy that falls in your lap isn't a plan it's just a reaction.

agree - they need planning. BPA makes sense when there isnt any talent on the roster but once some pieces start to fall in place it would make more sense to fill in the cracks or get players that complement the ones you already have or players that fit whatever system offense, defense, ST that you are trying to build. Lions dont seem to be doing this, at least not very well.

December 26th, 2012, 9:15 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Dream Defensive Coordinator

I'm not convinced Joekel will be a quality LT in the NFL. Watch his feet. He doesn't move tremendously well laterally, as is necessary for the LT position. Remember, at this time last year both DeCastro and Reiff were considered top 15 talents, and fell due to concerns. I guarantee you that if Luke J. doesn't have an outstanding Combine and/or Pro Day workout, his stock will drop and teams will look at him as a RT instead of a LT.

Just remember, not every highly ranked "blue chip" prospect turns out that way in the NFL. Personally, I don't think the offensive line played all that horribly this season, but it's a no brainer that they need to get some youth up front. With contracts ending and the age of certain players, it's necessary. But we do have Reiff, Nagy and Fox. These guys either have to step it up, or the Lions will have to look for other players.

This team needs help all over the place. Yes, I do feel that offensive line is one of the spots. But I still say the secondary is the spot most depleted of talent. We have to fill four spots there. Will Chris Houston be back? Will Delmas be back? If Delmas comes back, he certainly can't be counted on as a starter. We have nothing starting opposite either of those two. Has beens and never will be's, that's what we have. Our secondary is one of the three worst in the NFL, if you ask me. The Lions have to address it with some quality, and not just throw some bodies there and hope they will work out.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

December 31st, 2012, 8:05 pm

The Legend

Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5043Location: WSU

Re: Dream Defensive Coordinator

m2karateman wrote:

I'm not convinced Joekel will be a quality LT in the NFL. Watch his feet. He doesn't move tremendously well laterally, as is necessary for the LT position. Remember, at this time last year both DeCastro and Reiff were considered top 15 talents, and fell due to concerns. I guarantee you that if Luke J. doesn't have an outstanding Combine and/or Pro Day workout, his stock will drop and teams will look at him as a RT instead of a LT.

Just remember, not every highly ranked "blue chip" prospect turns out that way in the NFL. Personally, I don't think the offensive line played all that horribly this season, but it's a no brainer that they need to get some youth up front. With contracts ending and the age of certain players, it's necessary. But we do have Reiff, Nagy and Fox. These guys either have to step it up, or the Lions will have to look for other players.

This team needs help all over the place. Yes, I do feel that offensive line is one of the spots. But I still say the secondary is the spot most depleted of talent. We have to fill four spots there. Will Chris Houston be back? Will Delmas be back? If Delmas comes back, he certainly can't be counted on as a starter. We have nothing starting opposite either of those two. Has beens and never will be's, that's what we have. Our secondary is one of the three worst in the NFL, if you ask me. The Lions have to address it with some quality, and not just throw some bodies there and hope they will work out.

I think Lewan has much better feet than Joeckel and thats why I think he ll go up the board easily into the top 10. secretly hoping he ends up a Lion if they cant get one of the premier defenders.

i also agree, the OL did a pretty good job this year. their is a need though not bc of how they played but bc Reiff didnt develop much and backus is starting to accumulate injuries plus Cherilus as a FA who has talent but isnt a winning type of player.

i agree with you on the lack of talent in the secondary but they do a decent enough job masking it with patchwork that i dont think they see it as the priority the talent level would suggest. remember mayhew was a DB and Schwartz a defensive coach so they probably think they can get production greater than talent in certain areas of the defense. whatever the reason, they havent shown a willingness to spend big money or high draft picks in the secondary.

December 31st, 2012, 9:55 pm

njroar

Team MVP

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 amPosts: 3273

Re: Dream Defensive Coordinator

The Legend wrote:

m2karateman wrote:

I'm not convinced Joekel will be a quality LT in the NFL. Watch his feet. He doesn't move tremendously well laterally, as is necessary for the LT position. Remember, at this time last year both DeCastro and Reiff were considered top 15 talents, and fell due to concerns. I guarantee you that if Luke J. doesn't have an outstanding Combine and/or Pro Day workout, his stock will drop and teams will look at him as a RT instead of a LT.

Just remember, not every highly ranked "blue chip" prospect turns out that way in the NFL. Personally, I don't think the offensive line played all that horribly this season, but it's a no brainer that they need to get some youth up front. With contracts ending and the age of certain players, it's necessary. But we do have Reiff, Nagy and Fox. These guys either have to step it up, or the Lions will have to look for other players.

This team needs help all over the place. Yes, I do feel that offensive line is one of the spots. But I still say the secondary is the spot most depleted of talent. We have to fill four spots there. Will Chris Houston be back? Will Delmas be back? If Delmas comes back, he certainly can't be counted on as a starter. We have nothing starting opposite either of those two. Has beens and never will be's, that's what we have. Our secondary is one of the three worst in the NFL, if you ask me. The Lions have to address it with some quality, and not just throw some bodies there and hope they will work out.

I think Lewan has much better feet than Joeckel and thats why I think he ll go up the board easily into the top 10. secretly hoping he ends up a Lion if they cant get one of the premier defenders.

i also agree, the OL did a pretty good job this year. their is a need though not bc of how they played but bc Reiff didnt develop much and backus is starting to accumulate injuries plus Cherilus as a FA who has talent but isnt a winning type of player.

i agree with you on the lack of talent in the secondary but they do a decent enough job masking it with patchwork that i dont think they see it as the priority the talent level would suggest. remember mayhew was a DB and Schwartz a defensive coach so they probably think they can get production greater than talent in certain areas of the defense. whatever the reason, they havent shown a willingness to spend big money or high draft picks in the secondary.

Did Reiff not develop or has Backus just earned his spot for his last year? Reiff did fine when he replaced Backus for the one game due to injury, but anyone's first game is gonna be their best. He at least saw the field this year in other positions. It let him get his feet.

Next year I expect 4 new faces on the line, even if we don't draft one. Backus's contract is up. Sims tweeted out that he's begging him to come back, but Reiff, Fox and Hilliard can hold up the OT positions. Nagy can play center or guard, so hopefully his ankle is good to go. If anything we just need a center or guard depending on what Nagy can play. They won't have game time continuity, but they've practiced together for awhile, so they should be good to go. Getting rid of Dom/Peterman alone will do wonders for the running game. We haven't had a pass protection problem.

The safeties is our biggest hole. Neither Delmas or Spievey are reliable. We need some depth at corner, but Green grew a lot this season. No position hurt us more and cost us more games than the safety position. Corners will get beat. But quality safety play will be there to minimize the pain. Ours never did that this year. They were constantly in the wrong position and taking wrong angles to help. I wouldn't mind a safety pick at 5 (if one rates that high) and 36. or 2nd and 3rd if they all have 2nd round grades and higher.

January 1st, 2013, 12:39 am

The Legend

Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5043Location: WSU

Re: Dream Defensive Coordinator

njroar wrote:

The Legend wrote:

m2karateman wrote:

I'm not convinced Joekel will be a quality LT in the NFL. Watch his feet. He doesn't move tremendously well laterally, as is necessary for the LT position. Remember, at this time last year both DeCastro and Reiff were considered top 15 talents, and fell due to concerns. I guarantee you that if Luke J. doesn't have an outstanding Combine and/or Pro Day workout, his stock will drop and teams will look at him as a RT instead of a LT.

Just remember, not every highly ranked "blue chip" prospect turns out that way in the NFL. Personally, I don't think the offensive line played all that horribly this season, but it's a no brainer that they need to get some youth up front. With contracts ending and the age of certain players, it's necessary. But we do have Reiff, Nagy and Fox. These guys either have to step it up, or the Lions will have to look for other players.

This team needs help all over the place. Yes, I do feel that offensive line is one of the spots. But I still say the secondary is the spot most depleted of talent. We have to fill four spots there. Will Chris Houston be back? Will Delmas be back? If Delmas comes back, he certainly can't be counted on as a starter. We have nothing starting opposite either of those two. Has beens and never will be's, that's what we have. Our secondary is one of the three worst in the NFL, if you ask me. The Lions have to address it with some quality, and not just throw some bodies there and hope they will work out.

I think Lewan has much better feet than Joeckel and thats why I think he ll go up the board easily into the top 10. secretly hoping he ends up a Lion if they cant get one of the premier defenders.

i also agree, the OL did a pretty good job this year. their is a need though not bc of how they played but bc Reiff didnt develop much and backus is starting to accumulate injuries plus Cherilus as a FA who has talent but isnt a winning type of player.

i agree with you on the lack of talent in the secondary but they do a decent enough job masking it with patchwork that i dont think they see it as the priority the talent level would suggest. remember mayhew was a DB and Schwartz a defensive coach so they probably think they can get production greater than talent in certain areas of the defense. whatever the reason, they havent shown a willingness to spend big money or high draft picks in the secondary.

Did Reiff not develop or has Backus just earned his spot for his last year? Reiff did fine when he replaced Backus for the one game due to injury, but anyone's first game is gonna be their best. He at least saw the field this year in other positions. It let him get his feet.

Next year I expect 4 new faces on the line, even if we don't draft one. Backus's contract is up. Sims tweeted out that he's begging him to come back, but Reiff, Fox and Hilliard can hold up the OT positions. Nagy can play center or guard, so hopefully his ankle is good to go. If anything we just need a center or guard depending on what Nagy can play. They won't have game time continuity, but they've practiced together for awhile, so they should be good to go. Getting rid of Dom/Peterman alone will do wonders for the running game. We haven't had a pass protection problem.

The safeties is our biggest hole. Neither Delmas or Spievey are reliable. We need some depth at corner, but Green grew a lot this season. No position hurt us more and cost us more games than the safety position. Corners will get beat. But quality safety play will be there to minimize the pain. Ours never did that this year. They were constantly in the wrong position and taking wrong angles to help. I wouldn't mind a safety pick at 5 (if one rates that high) and 36. or 2nd and 3rd if they all have 2nd round grades and higher.

Backus has a year left on his contract after signing a 2 year deal before last season.

If I was Stafford I d be terrified if my line was LT - Reiff LG - Sims C - Raiola RG - Nagy RT - Fox especially with Nagy and Fox both having major durability issues. How long before that right side of the line was just bums off the street? I think it would be pretty irresponsibile to just confidently head into training camp with those guys pencilled in as the starting line. Maybe it will evolve to that at some point but I dont think that will be the initial plan.