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Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

Obligatory Free Lance post.......Lance was 4-8 from the Field....1-1 from the 3pt line, didn't turn the ball over and was the only Player on the court with a positive +/- ( +4 ).

Just sayin'

He was also 3/4 at one point. It was an excellent adjustment by Frank, even if it was late. We couldn't do anything to stop Kevin Martin, so he changed the offense into the Lance show until Martin was too tired to be as ultra effective as he started.

Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

He was also 3/4 at one point. It was an excellent adjustment by Frank, even if it was late. We couldn't do anything to stop Kevin Martin, so he changed the offense into the Lance show until Martin was too tired to be as ultra effective as he started.

Lance either is thinking too much....which also gives PG issues.....and causes him to hesitate and/or decide to defer to the rest of the lineup...which usually includes PG/GH/DW/Hibbert.

Lance is an instinctive Player...much like PG is.....if he just acts as opposed to think....he'll do better. You have to wonder what Vogel has directed Lance's role to be when he is on the floor. Is it to create for others....or just be the guy waiting for a 3pt shot...or just pass the ball if he doesn't have a good shot.?

Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

He was also 3/4 at one point. It was an excellent adjustment by Frank, even if it was late. We couldn't do anything to stop Kevin Martin, so he changed the offense into the Lance show until Martin was too tired to be as ultra effective as he started.

Eh, I think Martin became less of a focal point of the offense because of KD and Westbrook in the fourth quarter. KD went Jordan on PG and Russell finished it off. Lance had been doing a solid job on Westbrook, I think that adjustment was a possibility, but Frank obviously felt strong going with Green, who shot with confidence today and defended decently too. We were close but Durant just decided he wanted it. The only thing PG had a chance with was either getting a double from West or Roy, or becoming much stronger and pushing KD out past 15-18 feet where he was setting up. You almost need a top ten player to win games like these. Either that or play perfect and we just didn't have two halves of that kind of offense in us.

Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

Played well really. Just not enough firepower for to overcome that level of team. Not saying they grow on trees, but Martin is a legit 6th man difference maker. On one hand we never know what we'll get from our bench guys on a given night. On the other, we do know we won't get the impact Martin gave them. And this on a night where Green, DJ, and Ian played pretty well by their standards. Just not in the same league in terms of quality of bench.

Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

He's played four straight games of "This team could win the Central" basketball.

Now we just need the other pieces to start gelling. For example, if Hibbert starts making 40% of his shots...and the bench has looked pretty decent at times over the past couple of games. Regardless, things are looking up at this point, and Paul is leading the charge IMO.

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Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

Pretty sure Lance wasn't in late because of defense. Martin was lighting him up early, and Green seemed to actually do a decent job of fighting through screens and contesting Martin's shot. He's actually looked pretty good defensively on the whole of late.

Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

Hard to complain about Lance's minutes. He got 25 of them. Roughly the same as Roy. And trailing only David, Paul and Hill. He's played well. Still seems to be thinking about the game and his defense needs work. But he looks like a guy that is going to be a rotation guy. That is a big positive coming out of the 1st 20 games.

BTW, Gerald Green also looks like a guy that can get rotation minutes.

Pacers look like they have 7 guys they can count on, not including Danny. That is a step up from last season.

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Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

I hope this is a break out game of sorts for Green where he starts playing more like sixth man material, and less like the 8th or 9th. Overall he has been shooting better this month (.458) so far, but it is still too early to call it a trend.

Last edited by Eleazar; 12-10-2012 at 02:22 AM.
Reason: typo on shooting percentage I put .485 instead of .458

Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

I hope this is a break out game of sorts for Green where he starts playing more like sixth man material, and less like the 8th or 9th. Overall he has been shooting better this month (.485) so far, but it is still too early to call it a trend.

I agree.

He needs to have the ball in his hands more. He's the biggest offensive spark off the bench. He's good off the dribble, he can create, and I feel like Vogel needs to draw up some more plays getting him the ball or have him drive to the hoop for a foul more.

I think having Augustin, who's been a black hole offensively, has kept he and the bench back a bit. There's been little offensive movement. Which is why changing it up a little and getting the ball in Green's hands might add a spark to the bench that hasn't been there on a nightly basis.

Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

He needs to have the ball in his hands more. He's the biggest offensive spark off the bench. He's good off the dribble, he can create, and I feel like Vogel needs to draw up some more plays getting him the ball or have him drive to the hoop for a foul more.

I think having Augustin, who's been a black hole offensively, has kept he and the bench back a bit. There's been little offensive movement. Which is why changing it up a little and getting the ball in Green's hands might add a spark to the bench that hasn't been there on a nightly basis.

Maybe it's the wording....but being a "black hole" on the offensive end describes a former DJ ( as in Dahntay Jones ) but IMHO doesn't really describe the current DJ that we have in the lineup. Augustin simply isn't very effective being the guy running and directing the offense and ( I assume ) tries on the defensive end...but simply isn't effective ( there's that word again to describe DJ ) on the defensive end.

Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

Played well really. Just not enough firepower for to overcome that level of team. Not saying they grow on trees, but Martin is a legit 6th man difference maker. On one hand we never know what we'll get from our bench guys on a given night. On the other, we do know we won't get the impact Martin gave them. And this on a night where Green, DJ, and Ian played pretty well by their standards. Just not in the same league in terms of quality of bench.

It will be very very little. I know this.

"We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

Maybe it's the wording....but being a "black hole" on the offensive end describes a former DJ ( as in Dahntay Jones ) but IMHO doesn't really describe the current DJ that we have in the lineup. Augustin simply isn't very effective being the guy running and directing the offense and ( I assume ) tries on the defensive end...but simply isn't effective ( there's that word again to describe DJ ) on the defensive end.

I actually think DJ holds the ball too long, he rubs pick and pop with either Ian or Tyler until one of them has a shot, or till he's forced to pass to the corner for a 3ball late in the shot clock. I don't like that. Green is the only player on our bench that has seemed like an offensive threat. He's obviously a type that plays better when he gets more shot attempts up.

I think where DJ is really hurting this team is the fact the GH can't sit down for a breather for longer that 3-4 minute stretches. For a guy that was hurt nd didn't play in pre season, I'm sure his body has been gassed.

Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

Durant has only shot under 40% four times this year......PG on Durant for most of the game had him shoot 8-24...shooting for .375 FG%.

George's D on Durant for 3 quarters(i couldn't watch the last one) was nothing but stellar.He had almost completely erased him.Yet he managed at the time to score double digits,thing that only shows how great KD is.

Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

I hope this is a break out game of sorts for Green where he starts playing more like sixth man material, and less like the 8th or 9th. Overall he has been shooting better this month (.458) so far, but it is still too early to call it a trend.

Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

He needs to have the ball in his hands more. He's the biggest offensive spark off the bench. He's good off the dribble, he can create, and I feel like Vogel needs to draw up some more plays getting him the ball or have him drive to the hoop for a foul more.

I think having Augustin, who's been a black hole offensively, has kept he and the bench back a bit. There's been little offensive movement. Which is why changing it up a little and getting the ball in Green's hands might add a spark to the bench that hasn't been there on a nightly basis.

I wouldn't expect Green having to create his own shot off the dribble to end well too often. He's best in one or two dribble type situations, more and you're asking for trouble.

New Jersey ran two plays for him last year consistently that stand out as the type of things he needs to be involved in more often. One involved the PF or C at the elbow handing the ball off to Green on a rub off screen. Depending on how his defender and the PF defender reacted, Green would either pull up for a 15 to 20 footer, or take a one to two dribble drive to the hoop. The play worked pretty well for a team that was having trouble finding offense (much like this one), and was mostly run with Humphries and Green. I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work with West and Green. If you go to the 1:50 mark in the below video you can see the same play being run with Williams and Green. Further from the basket than normal, but same concept applies.

Other than that, New Jersey ran a lot of isolation post ups for Green, and he did really well in those. Why those two things aren't in the Pacer playbook and being run for Green consistently is beyond me. It shouldn't take a genius to look at how effective he was last year with the Nets and try to recapture that by running similar plays for him. I'd get it if this team was full of offensive options and running plays specifically for Green didn't make sense, but that obviously isn't the case here.

Still, the thing that might bother me most is the Pacers signed one of the most exciting transition players in the league, and never get out in transition. Bleh.

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Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

DJ played better, but still not good. The other players don't move when he has the ball, and he does nothing to get them to move. They run that PnR, he drives over to the wing to create space for the picker, and that's about it. Too much standing around, too much dribbling.

Starters played well for the most part. Needed another player or two to have an impact to have a real shot at pulling that one out. Just not enough dependable play from the bench.

Re: Pacers/OKC POSTGAME THREAD

I wouldn't expect Green having to create his own shot off the dribble to end well too often. He's best in one or two dribble type situations, more and you're asking for trouble.

New Jersey ran two plays for him last year consistently that stand out as the type of things he needs to be involved in more often. One involved the PF or C at the elbow handing the ball off to Green on a rub off screen. Depending on how his defender and the PF defender reacted, Green would either pull up for a 15 to 20 footer, or take a one to two dribble drive to the hoop. The play worked pretty well for a team that was having trouble finding offense (much like this one), and was mostly run with Humphries and Green. I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work with West and Green. If you go to the 1:50 mark in the below video you can see the same play being run with Williams and Green. Further from the basket than normal, but same concept applies.

Other than that, New Jersey ran a lot of isolation post ups for Green, and he did really well in those. Why those two things aren't in the Pacer playbook and being run for Green consistently is beyond me. It shouldn't take a genius to look at how effective he was last year with the Nets and try to recapture that by running similar plays for him. I'd get it if this team was full of offensive options and running plays specifically for Green didn't make sense, but that obviously isn't the case here.

Still, the thing that might bother me most is the Pacers signed one of the most exciting transition players in the league, and never get out in transition. Bleh.

Appreciate this post. I'm not anti - green. I just don't see that he's done a whole lot of worth given what I think we need out of him. Your post brings into question if he's being used to his strengths.

I agree with you - and you've seen him more than me - that he's not a creator with the dribble. Totally agree that he can operate off a dribble move of up to roughly two dribbles. Honestly, as recently as last year, I think that's a good description of DG as well.

Anyway, there's what Gerald is capable of. There's what the coaching staff is trying to do with him. And there's whether the braintrust's evaluation of his talent was accurate given what we need, which is a dynamic scoring option off the bench. I would like to see our approach play more to his strengths. At the same time, I think we banked on him being the level / type of player we needed off the bench. Personally, I think they misjudged either our needs and / or his ceiling given those needs.