NZ jumped first and deepest into that liberal chasm, and while it’s true that we’re being left to stumble around in its depths by political leaders who appear to lack any imagination or passion, the fact is that the ‘western world’ is changing.

I also think it will happen here. I see changes even in the MSM where people are starting to question the orthodoxy. The internet has changed things and I think there is still more potential there.

My theory is that NZ never recovered from the betrayal of 80s Labour. Did neoliberalism get introduced anywhere else by a supposed left wing govt? Who were NZers supposed to vote for in 1987, 1990 etc? By the time MMP came along, many things were entrenched and it’s going to take time for the culture to shift again. Having some signposts would be good (and as you both know I am in favour of things that encourage people more than condemn them. Yes, do the hard analysis, but give people a way they can change too. Little bit of stick, way more carrot).

>Did neoliberalism get introduced anywhere else by a supposed left wing govt?

Not on our scale (Hawke and Keating don’t live in infamy the way Douglas and Prebble do), but Australian Labor started their deregulation a year before us. There were also neoliberal trends in the US under Jimmy Carter and the UK under Jim Callaghan.

Yes and no. Some of the stuff you’ve been mentioning through your comments are SOEs. As such, or at least as far as I understand it, they are required to spin a profit.

Nationalised industries aren’t subject to the profit motive and can even be deliberately geared to be loss making in order to generate lower costs for downstream or associated industries, that are then able to be more profitable, and which leads to a greater tax take.

So for example, subsidised steel might allow for a car manufacturing plant to prosper, that then employs thousands in high paying jobs all paying PAYE.

For example, buying high quality railway stock from Hillside, rather than importing stuff that’s a bit shit and turns out to have asbestos.

That one’s actually a very good example, in that the supposedly “neo-liberal” Labour Party wouldn’t have gone with the cheap-but-crappy Chinese option, but National were happy to. It does make a real difference who you vote for.

Leaks I like. The Welsh might try a humorous line at the end of their winter, of serving leak soup in their lively cafes. With accompaniments in similar jokey fashion.
Pain au beurre (some butter on your wounds) to go with their soup, also featuring alphabet soup spelling Up Wales which would be also piped onto floating croutons. How’s that for unfettered imagination!

Keep those leaks coming I say. Use that Russian idea of having a fog of stuff coming at people so they don’t know what to believe is happening, but believe that from it all something will emerge.

The Brit government will have wet pants, first from laughing so hard, then from worrying that ideas might stick in people’s minds now they have been exposed to air. And the Tories might be expected to have some nation building, people-serving ideas of their own. Quelle horreur! Look what happened in France. Who knows who or what the Brits might vote for next, and what will confusion do to the British pound? Double quelle horreur.

This is totally awesome and is the first time for a long time that real social policy has been put up as an alternative rather than fear and scaremongering which is what the conservatives may resort to. All the doubters are in for a shock. The time is right for policy over personality

Think it through Draco. If the stated intention is to nationalise, then companies get to ‘bargain’ over levels of compensation. However, if a publicly owned competitor is set up that proceeds to cut the legs out from under them, they’ll come crawling begging to be offered a way out of the sector….

Where did the list come from Bill? It’s a good list for sure, and I’m curious how much UK Labour are explaining it. For instance nationalised the railways makes sense to many of us, but there are lots of people who wouldn’t necessarily understand why it’s a good thing (am thinking particularly people with no lived experience pre-Thatcher or in NZ pre-Rogernomics). Some of things are self-explanatory e.g. no uni fees, but others fall in a grey area.

Skulled it from the Mirror article I linked to in the post. They report it as being from a draught of the manifesto that gets released Thursday UK time. Since putting the post up, I see that The Guardian also has a couple of articles on it.

Disagree. This is the problem Labour always has, Greens too, always thinking they have to get into detail adn costings and endless bloody explanation. Brits know the rail system’s fucked, they know privatisation did it. Don’t let the policy wonks waste a great headline! People know teritary fees were a betrayal, they know it’s bullshit to raise the retirement age while cutting company tax. YES we need policies but NO we don’t need boring bloody explanations.

What will UK Labour do with this manifesto? Presumably they will promote these policies between now and the election to UK voters.

What will happen when they do promote these policies? The electorate will scratch it collective head wondering what planet Labour’s from, and vote Conservative.

I then predict that Labour UK will split and those that support this 1970’s style Eastern European approach to economics, will become a narrow splinter group with every likelihood of sinking into oblivion.

Helen Clark’s government was a friendlier version of the National Governments that preceded and proceeded her government.

But do not for a second try and convince any of us that her government was revolutionary or tried to fundamentally reform the economic system we have been operating under since 1984 (the first government she was involved in).

I would love it if Andrew Little came out and proposed all of these things.

Quite – it’s really very unexceptional and an example of fairly ho hum, bog standard social democracy.
Watching people in the UK get all aghast about it is simply a reminder of how mad and radical their current status quo is.
The thing in the UK that most resembles communist Eastern Europe isn’t the Labour manifesto, it’s the the mass surveillance system put in place by governments of both stripes.

The electorate will scratch it collective head wondering what planet Labour’s from … this 1970’s style Eastern European approach to economics

Wayne

Well Bill, you might like classic socialism

Tuppence Shrewsbury

Jeremy Chavez …

Alan

Perhaps we should ask the good people of Venezuela how such ideas are working out for them?

____________________________________________________________________

.

Meanwhile … heading on back to reality for a moment … this is how the British public feel about some of these Hard Left 1970’s style Eastern European-Venezuelian policies … according to UK polling I collected back in 2015

Are a force for Good / Are part of the Solution 41%
Get in the way / Are part of the Problem 28%
Neither 19%
(Lab 47/24/18, Lib Dem 48/24/20, Tory 41/32/20)

.

YouGov
(2013)Should the Labour Party continue with the ideas of ‘New Labour’ and build upon the record of the last Government
OR abandon the ideas of ‘New Labour’ and distance itself from the last Labour Government

Great work in collating that information, it is just about where the numbers would fall that you (well I) would instinctively think they would, across the board.
Unfortunately power doesn’t normally make the same mistake, politically, twice in a row , so hence they will not run May directly against Corbyn, as they now fully under stand that a neo liberal centrist will always look bad in a debate against a Left progressive…just remember back to Clinton/Sanders and in a lesser way Corbyn/Owen.

Thanks for your earlier research – I hope you don’t mind but I’ve shared it with my FB friends as we’ve been discussing the issue that the policies of the Corbyn led Labour party do, in fact, align with UK public opinion when presented as separate poling questions, but when polled as to voting intention Labour is miles behind. I know there are *many* other issues behind that, but it’s good to get a collection of polling data to prove my point!

Two problems there Wayne. One is we live in a finite world and perpetual growth is against the basic laws of physics. At best you are proposing short term gain for medium and long term problems.

Which leads us to number two. What you so euphemistically frame as “That is not the same as saying there are not things to be fixed” just hides the fact that you think it’s acceptable for some people to live in misery because that gives other people a chance to have a modern consumerist lifestyle.

You’ve had over 30 years to prove that neoliberalism works and the best you can do is show that it benefits some people in the short term at the considerable expense of others.

About $2 billion for new programmes to fix social and environmental problems.

I can’t tell if you are actually serious about that one. Are you going to vote Green his time round? Money won’t solve the housing and water crises. Changes in behaviour will, and that’s going to need regulation, and we won’t get that from anything but the left. Again, the best you can argue is that neoliberalism will tinker with the problems and that is good because it means the people in the top brackets will have more than they need.

If your reading of the “budget responsibility” is correct (and I know people will say it isn’t), then NZ can look forward to austerity. Which, as we all know, is disastrous for people but fine for some sections of the economy.

By the way. When you have the time, would you care to explain to me what the difference is between ‘classic socialism’ and whatever other socialism it was you had in mind when you typed that?

Doing pretty well economicaly, indeed, but for whom exactly?…for the average kiwi is there wage growth?, homeownership growth?, job security growth?, sence of community and connectedness?, social mobility?……NOPE…what we have is growth in company and investor profits, growth in the wealth of the top earners, growth in rental ownership/landlordism…..and the funny thing is no one even bothers talking about ‘trickle down’ anymore (thank Goodness) because we all know thats not happening.

BRS means no new taxes, government around 30% of GDP, sustainable surpluses, and reducing debt.

That assumes that the present system is sustainable which it actually isn’t. In fact, the present system is destroying our very livelihood.

New Zealand is actually doing pretty well economically

No it’s not. If we continue the way we’re going then NZ is going to be very poor very quickly as we sell off all of the wealth that actually makes living in these shaky isles viable.

However, if you want to set back New Zealand’s growth prospects then Corbyn’s manifesto might just be the answer.

We actually had more growth when we had similar policies before and then there’s the fact that infinite growth on a finite planet is impossible which means the ideology your expound is also impossible.

“About $2 billion for new programmes to fix social and environmental problems.”

Easy. Forget the new planes for the military. Same cost. It’s all a question of priorities and will, after all.

Or, since I know, Wayne, that you favour these planes, how’s about a concerted and thorough recovery of the lost tax through evasion reckoned to be somewhere between $NZ1.5 and 7 billion a year. I mean concerted, I mean with the same energy that we pursue other criminals such as drug pushers, murderers and rapists.

We will establish a body independent of Ministers of the Crown who will be responsible for determining if these rules are being met. The body will also have oversight of government economic and fiscal forecasts, shall provide an independent assessment of government forecasts to the public, and will cost policies of opposition parties.

We expect to be held to account by the people of New Zealand. That is why it’s important to have clear indicators of success, and independent oversight.

In government we will develop a comprehensive set of measurements to assess our progress and policies, across a range of social, environmental, and economic indicators.

We will report on our progress at the Budget and Half Year Economic and Fiscal Updates.

So the government will be assessed according to more than just accounting numbers when making its fiscal decisions.

Cite a single bit of evidence that keeping crown spending at around 30% of GDP has any social, economic or environmental benefit. I doubt you can. The BRS is based on blind ideology without a shred of evidence, and you are just following along.

Some countries with much larger government spending are doing just fine – and in some cases much better than NZ (think Scandinavia) on various measures of wellbeing.

Have a browse of this list and see what you think – seems to contain zero evidence for the BRS target.

Capitalism, the enduring system lifting billions out of absolute poverty into “relative” poverty. Relative compared to their peers, not relative to what poverty was a generation before. No known failures except in the eyes of its socialist detractors.

Or socialism. At least 5 notable examples of it failing. Miserably. Inhumanly. And causing suffering untold to some of those same billions that capitalism rescued.

Ah. So people in NZ suddenly chose to be unemployed, changes to the economy couldn’t do anything to offset this mass decision by hundreds of thousands of people. And tens of thousands of people suddenly decided they didn’t like living in homes.

Globally, free market economics have halved poverty. That is a simple fact.
If you want to return to NZ in the 1970’s you’ll need to begin by persuading mother England and her colonies to return to buying all our produce at protectionist prices, pay farmers to produce what the world may not want, tell the citizens of NZ they will need import licenses to buy a decent, affordable car, tell the same citizenry their choice of electronic goods will reduce by a factor of gazzillions, that they will have to pre-apply for their for foreign currency, wait 6 weeks for a telephone connection…I’m sure you get the idea. Good luck with all that old chap.

So free market policies might have halved poverty globally (lol for a given value of “free”, given that the tpp went the way of the mai), but definitely dramatically increased it in NZ? Yeah, that’s sort of my point, dipshit.

Oh, sorry, of course – people saw Douglas float the dollar and just suddenly decided they didn’t want to work any more. Darn social attitudes.

Tuppence didn’t provide any data. And your links were bullshit – especially now that thousands of people in the continental USA don’t have access to clean drinking water. Flint’s just the tip of the iceberg

Flint’s lead levels call you a hypocrite who can’t stick to the point. Cellphones do you no good when the drinking water is contaminated, like in flint. Gotta love how free market policies have ended up with people in a first world country drinking poisoned water, eh.

But your zero tolerance for that is overwhelmed by your desire to talk about anything other than the topic at hand

“Flint’s lead levels call you a hypocrite who can’t stick to the point. ”
Flint is a town in Michigan. It was an isolated case, taken seriously by officials and resolved. Incidentally, lead exposure from water has fallen dramatically since the 1980’s. Meanwhile, in the soviet union:
“Soviet leaders took little action to protect the nation’s inland bodies of water or surrounding oceans and seas from pollution, and Soviet planners gave low priority to risk-free treatment and transport of water. As a result, 75 percent of Russia’s surface water is now polluted, 50 percent of all water is not potable according to quality standards established in 1992, and an estimated 30 percent of groundwater available for use is highly polluted. ”http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-11390.html

But no, Flint is not an “isolated case”. It is the “tip of the iceberg“. You must have missed that link because your ego was standing in the way.

BTW, yeah it’s awesome how environmental lead levels are generally falling (unless it’s water going through lead pipes) ever since the private sector was banned from putting lead in petrol. Thank goodness for government regulation.

“Flint is not an “isolated case”.”
Nope, it is rare, and resolved with funds from taxes derived from a free market economy. How are they fixing things in Venezuela?

“BTW, yeah it’s awesome how environmental lead levels are generally falling (unless it’s water going through lead pipes) ever since the private sector was banned from putting lead in petrol. Thank goodness for government regulation.”
Ah, but your reference was about water. The reasons environmental levels of lead in water have dropped is because lead pipes are being replaced, and councils are purifying water. All paid for from taxes derived from the private sector.

“it is rare”no, it really isn’t. That map is for lead and copper contamination alone, by the way, and still includes millions upon millions of people in the continental USA. And please show that Flint’s problems have been “resolved”.

Residents […] are being told to continue using faucet filters or bottled water because an ongoing mass replacement of pipes could spike lead levels in individual houses. The replacement of the lines is expected to take years.

So, yeah, still a situation where the people of Flint can’t be sure their water is isn’t toxic. Gotta love first world problems /sarc

“Residents […] are being told to continue using faucet filters or bottled water because an ongoing mass replacement of pipes could spike lead levels in individual houses. The replacement of the lines is expected to take years.”
So? The water is drinkable as per the EPA. You challenged that. You were wrong.

Although the point remains that before the contamination was caused by skipping a treatment step, Flint didn’t need to advise it’s residents to drink bottled water even in that litigious environment,/i>.

City officials looking to balance the budget after their manufacturing sector got fucked by a free trade agreement thirty years ago. You really know fuckall about Flint Mi, don’t you.

In a litigious society, there’s always incentive for litigation. Before the water supply got fucked up, there wasn’t the excuse. Even after they restarted treatment and flushed the main pipes, there’s still the possibility of lead flaking/leaching from neighbourhood pipes. The problem isn’t over.

That’s an interesting bias on display there. Lots of buck-passing going on in Flint. The fact remains that state* governor Rick Snyder appointed the emergency managers who are now facing criminal charges, so your attempt to help them avoid their personal responsibility is a bit late.

Way to stand up for your team, though.

*NB: that’s “state”, not “city”. Don’t you know the difference between a state and a city? Look it up.

Yep, tens of thousands out of work, declining rates base, drugs and crime increasing, city at point of bankruptcy ends up distributing toxic water… you reduce all these benefits of free trade as “squawk squawk”.

But you totally care about people less fortunate (or even other) than yourself /sarc.

“state* governor Rick Snyder appointed the emergency managers who are now facing criminal charges”
…and who made the decision to source water from the Flint River. But I love your segue….Snyder is also a government official. Public sector. I have no problem with that…but I love the way you shoot your own feet so often.

“Yep, tens of thousands out of work, declining rates base, drugs and crime increasing, city at point of bankruptcy ends up distributing toxic water… ”
“January 12, 2015 – City officials decline an offer to reconnect to Lake Huron water, concerned of higher water rates.”https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis

Still, love that in one thread you argue that government intervention isn’t a market distortion, and in the other you pretend that the poisoning happened because it was public agencies operating in a market (I guess because private enterprise is known for never poisoning anyone on a scale of millions).

“Still, love that in one thread you argue that government intervention isn’t a market distortion, and in the other you pretend that the poisoning happened because it was public agencies operating in a market (I guess because private enterprise is known for never poisoning anyone on a scale of millions).”
Easy peasy. I haven’t argued that Flint was or was not a market distortion.

“well, if that’s what the market was going to do anyway, why your fixation on whether it was public or private agencies that did it? The decline and poisoning of Flint was the will of the market…”
Who said ‘thats what the market was going to do anyway’? The supply of Flint water didn’t seem to involve private enterprise, it involved decision making by bureaucrats. Sometimes governments work well alongside private enterprise. This was a case in which private enterprise was not involved at all. And what a clusterf^&k.

“operating within a water market. Huron was too expensive, remember?”
That’s not what the article said. Huron was going to cause water rates to rise. Politicians and public servants fear voter backlash. So they made an incompetent decision.

“So your position is that the free market can produce first-world municipal water supplies just as bad as water supplies in a developing nation?”
No. I’m going back to the start of this discussion and comparing your example of Flint with an entire nations water supply. Venezuela is a classic example of how socialism always fails.

“Geez, every municipal water supply on the planet is poisoned? So the Flint water supply problem was a product of socialism?”
Geez, that’s about as wild a tangent from what I have written as is possible to reach. Congratulations.

“what makes Venezuela’s water supplies socialist and Flint’s not-socialist?”
It isn’t the water supply per se, it is the economic system within which they operate. In the US there is an environment of accountability, in Venezuela democracy is a farce. In the US it is a mixed market economy that supports public services, in Venezuela the socialist style economy has failed.

In the US there is an environment of accountability, in Venezuela democracy is a farce. In the US it is a mixed market economy that supports public services, in Venezuela the socialist style economy has failed.

In the US the candidate who won the most votes doesn’t become the president. How is that not a farce?

Venezuela has private enterprise and government organisations, same as the US. What makes one “socialist” and the other “mixed economy”?

“In the US the candidate who won the most votes doesn’t become the president. How is that not a farce?”
You need to do your homework on the US constitution. It is one of the checks and balances introduced to prevent one large states preference dominating.

“Oh, I know why the US decided against democratic elections, but that doesn’t make it any less of a farce of democracy.”
The US does have democratic elections.

“As for socialist vs mixed, so when trade restrictions close private businesses, that’s socialism, but when trade liberalisation closes private businesses then that’s a mixed economy? Is that the line?”
So now you blame trade restrictions. Sigh. Socialism has stuffed Venezuela, not trade restrictions.

And yet the candidate with the most votes does not necessarily win the election. Hence, a farce of “democracy”

“As for socialist vs mixed, so when trade restrictions close private businesses, that’s socialism, but when trade liberalisation closes private businesses then that’s a mixed economy? Is that the line?”
So now you blame trade restrictions. Sigh. Socialism has stuffed Venezuela, not trade restrictions.

The new foreign exchange regulations send a clear signal that the trade debt owed by all importers, who were forced to purchase goods overseas on credit by previous regulations, will not receive foreign exchange and thus will not be able to pay their suppliers. It will not take long for most private companies, both industrial and retail, to either close — since they will have nothing to sell — or to declare bankruptcy on the face of lawsuits from their own suppliers.

“And yet the candidate with the most votes does not necessarily win the election. Hence, a farce of “democracy””
Not so. Democracy does not guarantee the candidate with the most votes wins. It guarantees that everyone eligible to vote has a say.

“No, your link blamed trade restrictions, specifically on foreign currency:”
No, you blamed trade restrictions, which is a common left wing mantra to excuse the failure of socialism in yet another country.

While the causes of unemployment in Africa are complex and may vary for different countries, a major factor has been the economic policies and free market restructuring of recent decades. Much has been said and written about the now discredited Structural Adjustment Programmes (SAPs) that were imposed on many African countries by the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, but the legacy of these policies still leaves a deep scar across the developing world. In the 1980s and 1990s, SAPs may have opened up Africa’s markets to foreign competition, but it also led to the closure of countless small and medium-sized enterprises at the local level. At the same time, the privatization of previously state-run industries led to massive lay-offs without social security. In the name of creating an enticing climate for foreign investment, these economic policies of market deregulation, trade liberalization and privatization led to a growing swathe of unemployed workers and a concentration of wealth in the hands of a privileged social minority – a trend that is continuing and accelerating in the aftermath of the global financial crisis since 2008.

The free market restructuring of national economies over recent decades has had a particularly dramatic effect on the agricultural sector in many African countries. In converting diverse local economies into export trade systems, millions of people working in subsistence agriculture have lost access to local markets or the means of production. Countless of these small-scale producers are forced to migrate to urban centres if they cannot compete with heavily industrialized producers, resulting in a surplus of labour in many African cities. On top of this migration, Africa’s undeveloped manufacturing sector means that there are insufficient jobs outside of the traditional agriculture sector, resulting in increased unemployment.

There may be many proximate and short-term causes of unemployment in African cities, but the current model of development is the underlying long-term structural reason for increasing unemployment in rich and poor countries alike. In remoulding national economies to prioritise international trade and foreign direct investment, the benefits have accrued to large transnational corporations and an elite minority at the expense of real jobs and stable employment in domestic economies.

If you want to return to NZ in the 1970’s you’ll need to begin by persuading mother England and her colonies to return to buying all our produce at protectionist prices, pay farmers to produce what the world may not want, tell the citizens of NZ they will need import licenses to buy a decent, affordable car, tell the same citizenry their choice of electronic goods will reduce by a factor of gazzillions, that they will have to pre-apply for their for foreign currency, wait 6 weeks for a telephone connection…

You do understand that was all capitalism don’t you?

BTW, there are now places in NZ where it’s pretty much impossible to get a phone because servicing those areas isn’t commercially viable. So, from getting a phone in a few days* to not having one at all – such a great bloody achievement by the capitalists.

* If it took more than a few days it’s because the actual line from the exchange to the location needed to be installed.

You’ve quoted, in exhaustive length, an article where one journalist interview another? it’s not a UN document or even a detailed study by a foundation / charity that has interests in africs. it’s just a chat. a chat between a guy who is now a communications specialist? Good googling draco. whatever supports your fantasy.

I’ve seen research for it as well – just couldn’t find it. Why else do you think that the IMF and the World bank are now starting to backtrack on all the enforced opening of the economies that they did over the last few decades?

The research shows, quite clearly, that all that enforced opening of African economies has actually made the majority of Africans worse off and slowed down the development of their economies and societies.

Temper Temper McFlock. Just because I believe capitalism is a better economic system than socialism doesn’t make me the enemy. Unless you are so blinded by your hatred of people being individuals and working out whats best for them and how to achieve it that you see me as an enemy. In which case, I feel sorry for you. Seems awfully peverse to be that hateful towards because I don’t agree with you how people should live their lives.

Oh draco, so zimbabwe is a capitalist country is it? with all it’s nationalisation redistribution? man, what fucking fairy tale land do you live in? surely if BOTH the world bank and IMF are backtracking, you could find one article that has a respected and qualified talking head supporting your view point? not just some comm specialist talking to a compliant charity journo?

Your wilful ignorance of the suffering that has been inflicted on this country’s most defenceless people over the last 40 years is what makes you the enemy.

The fact that you just repeat your tory catechism in the hope that people on a leftisht blog will believe it based on your word and no evidence whatsoever just makes you an arrogrant fuckwit.

BTW, my temperament is fine. I just use expressions like “bastard” or “heartless piece of shit” because the expression “person with an opinion different from my own, in that they’d probably complain to the local council that the rubbish collection didn’t remove the corpse of a homeless child from their store frontage” is a bit long and lacks the emphasis that the imagery requires.

What suffering McFlock? it must be a horrible existence being as miserable as you. There is more education, people have a longer life span, wider more job and travel choices available to all. There was no golden era before 84? it was a grey, miserable existence. Narrow, closed minded, fortress New Zealand. A country where it was still illegal to be gay and only marginally less to be of a non white ethnicity. Import licences made political cronies obscenely rich for no obvious reason.

modern conditions have brought freedom, opportunity and inclusiveness to a much wider swath of society than to the few who can’t adapt to it’s changing pace. Why can’t unions adapt from an adversarial mentality to being the hub of change to help workers progress and “own” the labour in a modern sense. Rather than always fighting last centuries battles, again and again? then we might see real change than blaming the successors

Nobody said pre-1984 was a utopia, but we didn’t have the suicide rates we do today. More recent comparison. I’m sure that’s not associated with suffering at all. Then there’s the homeless rates, which you probably think of as “a permanent freedom camping lifestyle choice”.

“What suffering”. Fucksake – you didn’t even check your catechism on the off-chance it was trivially vulnerable to being demonstrably false, did you. That’s where blind faith gets you, I guess.

“but we didn’t have the suicide rates we do today. More recent comparison. I’m sure that’s not associated with suffering at all. Then there’s the homeless rates, which you probably think of as “a permanent freedom camping lifestyle choice”.”
You tie suicide and homelessness to free market economics without presenting any evidence. Correlation is not necessarily causation. For example, the suicide rate in the former Soviet Union rose from 17.1 per 100,000 inhabitants in 1965 to 29.6 in 1984. Do you blame that on socialism?

Housing is a market, therefore homelessness is directly related to capitalism. The rise in homelessness corresponds to the decline of state housing.

As for governments and suicide, yes, the communist government in your cherry-picked era did to some extent bear responsibility for the suicide rate. Just as Roger Douglas and john key bear some personal responsibility for dead kids.

“Housing is a market, therefore homelessness is directly related to capitalism. The rise in homelessness corresponds to the decline of state housing.”
No, because housing is not a ‘free’ market. It is heavily regulated, hence it’s failure to keep up with demand.

“As for governments and suicide, yes, the communist government in your cherry-picked era did to some extent bear responsibility for the suicide rate. Just as Roger Douglas and john key bear some personal responsibility for dead kids.”
No, neither do. Suicide is an autonomous decision of a human being, actively encouraged by an increasing tendency to devalue human life.

Denmark and Finland are mixed-market economies, as is NZ’s. Finland’s personal tax rates range from 6.5% to 31.75%, and their corporate tax rate is 20%. Corporate tax in Denmark is 22%.
Conversely, Norway is one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world, and pretty much survives on it’s oil revenues, hence the hit their economy took in late 2015.
In other words, you’re talking bull shit.

Your description of Finnish tax seems highly (deliberately?) misleading (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Finland) – they have a lot of other income tax in addition to the base state tax you quote, with top tax rates on income extending above 55%. And 14-24% GST/VAT.

No, they are not like “local taxes in the form of rates” – because they are income taxes, just collected by other parts of the state. They are also – for most people – much larger amounts than rates are in NZ. The take home message is that Denmark and Finland do have high total tax rates – comparable to Norway.

Ancient Egypt
Ancient Rome
Ancient Greece
Ancient Persia
Multiple periods in China
Civilisations of the Americas
The British Empire
The Ottoman Empire
Feudal Russia
Feudal France
The Great Depression
The Great Recession
Every single recession in fact

And there’s probably more.

Things have been getting better lately but it’s more to do with the rise of socialism starting with the Magna Carta.

And it’s not capitalism that raises people out of poverty but pushes them into it so that a few can be rich.

You’ve given me two examples that have occurred in the same way Time period as socialism, and really the only two that are capitalism as we mean it now. It was politics and socialism that caused the ills that came out of each of the Great Depression and the Great Recession. Internationally anyway. America didn’t kill 10mill+ of its own people to justify capitalism existence. Unlike the socialist people’s republics of china and Russia.

The fact you have to dredge ancient history to find a true comparable example shows how rooted in the past socialism and it’s adherents are. There is no place in modern times for it.

The one where you can get rich and fuck everybody else over. In other words, the psychopathic one known as capitalism.

Again, Wrong ism DTB. when people get rich in socialism, they have to fuck people over. which is proven over and over and over again.

I think I get it though, your definition of fucking someone over is the person apparently doing the fucking over being better at living in the real world than you are, or other losers are. Hence the only sin is being rich when others aren’t. for whatever reason they may not. A rather intellectually shallow point of view. only commendable for your persistence in it.

It was politics and socialism that caused the ills that came out of each of the Great Depression and the Great Recession. Internationally anyway.

Both the Great Depression and the Great Recession were caused by capitalism. it was socialism that saved capitalism after the Great Depression and it was socialism for the rich that kept capitalism ticking over after the great Recession – but it hasn’t saved it.

What caused the economy to fail after the 60s and 70s was capitalism because there cannot be infinite growth on a finite planet. Every single developed country had pushed productivity to the point where there could be no more growth in those countries unless they could export to other countries. But they really couldn’t do that either because all the other countries were poorer and couldn’t afford the products and so they had to make those products cheaper and the only way they could do that was by lowering wages.

America didn’t kill 10mill+ of its own people to justify capitalism existence.

I wonder how many people in the US, over the years and decades, have died because they couldn’t afford the health care that they needed. I wonder how have suicided because of financial stress caused by the punishing regime of capitalism.

If it was looked at and measured I suspect that it would be in the tens of millions.

The fact you have to dredge ancient history to find a true comparable example shows how rooted in the past socialism and it’s adherents are.

Ah, yes, the typical sociopathic response from a RWNJ. Confronted with evidence that proves him wrong he simply dismisses it with absolutely no evidence to support what he said.

Meanwhile, capitalism is failing all around us yet again and for all the same reasons.

Are you saying we are going to have a drop in milk exports receipts similar to Venezuela’s with oil.

Because Venezuela is failing for the entirely capitalist reason, that their receipts from oil export prices are dropping.

The same reason that the Capitalist paradise, Saudi Arabia, will eventually fail!

Meanwhile countries where State involvement in the economy are 50% or more, are doing fine, Including China and Singapore. Just as NZ and the USA did in the past, when they had high taxes and State development.

Socialism is taxpayer funds being used collectively to benefit society as a whole, despite income, contribution, or ability.

See, you’re probably one of these idiots that think socialism = communism but socialism is capitalism with so social aspects to it.

Here’s the main point about it though: Capitalism would collapse far more often and there’d be a hell of a lot more poverty if there was no social aspect to it. Without socialism to save to save it capitalism fails. Of course, even with it it still fails as the Great Recession and the stagflation of the 1970s proves beyond reasonable doubt.

“M, would you say that a socialist programme is one that’s created, controlled, operated and owned by the state?”
No, not necessarily. It is more probably part of a mixed market economy, similar to the NZ government building Roads of National Significance.

“Mixed economies combine elements of Capitalism and Socialism.”
Not really. You seem to think socialism has a monopoly on government involvement in the delivery of services. It does not. What it does have a monopoly on is destroying economies.

It’s quite obvious that you believe your rote-learned opinions very very hard.

It’s equally obvious – from looking at dictionaries and encyclopedias, and common usage, that yours is an extreme viewpoint.

We could even cite that lowlife trash John Phillip Key’s rhetoric that working for families is communism by stealth as an example of how mixed this economy is. However, you will carry on screeching and parroting and regurgitating your mantra ad nauseam anyway.

“from looking at dictionaries and encyclopedias, and common usage, that yours is an extreme viewpoint.”

Ok, so one minute it’s Bob Jones, then it’s John Key. Look, definitions are complex, but yes I do prefer sources of authority that are reliable. Your opinion is not reliable, as I have shown elsewhere tonight.

“No, because that isn’t what they do. You failed to read the graphs properly.”
Liar. Look back at the graph I referred to. YOUR graph. It showed a huge increases in unaffordabilty under Labour, and virtually no change since. You’ve shot yourself in the foot, and it’s not the first time.

90% tax on millionaires, social security, Medicaid, The whole “new deal”.
Tennesee valley authority, the GI bill, National park service, State schooling, public universities, The US military. Government funded research responsible for just about every technical innovation developed in the States.

Then you don’t understand socialism. In the US State schools co-exist with private schools, Medicaid with private insurers, public hospitals with private ones. There isn’t a single nation on earth that does not have government involvement in some areas of life, yet underpinning all of these services is a vibrant free market economy.
And then there’s Venezuela.

Given that your understanding of socialism seems to differ from everyone here who seems to actually follow Socialism to greater or lesser degrees, perhaps you should take a less prescriptive approach to language use, fucko?

“You’re the one arguing that a system of welfare support and industries owned and operated by the people via the state isn’t “socialism”.”
Because it isn’t, at least not when coupled with a market economy. You would need to demonstrate that state involvement in the supply of education etc is unique to socialist systems, which you can’t, because it isn’t.

Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production;[10] as well as the political ideologies, theories, and movements that aim to establish them.[11] Social ownership may refer to forms of public, collective, or cooperative ownership; to citizen ownership of equity; or to any combination of these.[12] Although there are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them,[13] social ownership is the common element shared by its various forms.[5][14][15]

[My emphasis added]

A: NZ public education and the NZpost are examples of state involvement where the state owns and provides the producer.
B: State ownership is public ownership.
C: Public ownership is a type of social ownership.
D: Social ownership is the common element of socialism.

Therefore:
E: NZ public education and the NZpost are examples of socialism.

“E: NZ public education and the NZpost are examples of socialism.”
No, they are not. State education has existed alongside private education within market economies for a very long time. IN fact state education precedes Socialism by centuries.

“what about NZpost?”
What about it? NZ Post co-exists alongside private enterprise, and has done for decades. The existence of a state provider for any commodity doesn’t evidence socialism. In fact in NZ, as in the US, a vast number of products and services that used to be provided by government are now provided by the private sector, either exclusively or in conjunction with public sector providers.

[…] social ownership is the common element shared by its [socialisms] various forms.

A: NZ public education and the NZpost are examples of state involvement where the state owns and provides the producer.
B: State ownership is public ownership.
C: Public ownership is a type of social ownership.
D: Social ownership is the common element of socialism.

Therefore:
E: NZ public education and the NZpost are examples of socialism.

Basically, until you address the logical argument above, you’re just being a [oh golly, we’re not allowed to use rude or insulting words against you, no matter how pathetic your stupidity becomes] with a cucumber.

Which premise is incorrect, or how does the conclusion not follow from the premises?

“social ownership is the common element shared by its [socialisms] various forms.”
Social ownership is also a feature of capitalist/free market economies.
Your logic is like saying…”that animal has four legs. Dogs have four legs, therefore that animal must be a dog.” In other words, you’re the one inserting the cucumber.

“so your comment “Social ownership is also a feature of capitalist/free market economies” is outright wrong.”
Well that is demonstrably false. Most, if not all, free market economies incorporate social ownership.

“Ok, so now it’s just “Social ownership is also a feature of free market economies”, and “capitalist” has gone by the wayside? OK,”
No. Read with greater precision. I have frequently used capitalist/free market together.

“So now you get to provide an example of public ownership that in no way affects the price for goods and services in the marketplace.”
No, you get to explain why that is even relevant. Any public service is paid for by taxes from the market. That tax rate effects returns to that market, which in turn effects prices. Many, if not most, public services can /are provided in conjunction with the private sector (postal services, roading, administration services, housing, education, health services…).
Now you get to explain what is happening in Venezuela.

“Ok, so now it’s just “Social ownership is also a feature of free market economies”, and “capitalist” has gone by the wayside? OK,”

No. Read with greater precision. I have frequently used capitalist/free market together.

I know you do, but as they are different things I gave you an out. Because if you insist in including capitalism to social ownership, you’re wrong. Because “Capitalism is an economic system and an ideology based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit”

“So now you get to provide an example of public ownership that in no way affects the price for goods and services in the marketplace.”

No, you get to explain why that is even relevant. Any public service is paid for by taxes from the market. That tax rate effects returns to that market, which in turn effects prices. Many, if not most, public services can /are provided in conjunction with the private sector (postal services, roading, administration services, housing, education, health services…).

It’s relevant because at an extreme end of interpretation, state owned organisations by definition operate with the power and the resources of the state behind them, a situation that can never affect private organisations.

So therefore the very existence of socially-owned organisations is a distortion ofthe market beyond simple supply/demand functions.

So therefore state ownership is inconsistent with the defining characteristics of a free market, but it is however the very core of socialism.

So all this time you’ve been misunderstanding words significantly bigger than you are, and yes, the US has indeed had socialist policies.

Now you get to explain what is happening in Venezuela.

Sure. US fucked Latin America. Fuckage ongoing. Done.
Now, about you not knowing what “socialism” and “mixed economy” means…

“Because if you insist in including capitalism to social ownership, you’re wrong. ”
Social ownership and capitalism are not mutually exclusive. That is the mistake you are making.

“Because “Capitalism is an economic system and an ideology based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit””
Can you name a single nation that actually operates with every means of production in private hands? You see your definition may be more accurate if it referred to ‘trade and industry’, but in practice the means of production include things that have to be funded, if not supplied, out of taxes.

“It’s relevant because at an extreme end of interpretation, state owned organisations by definition operate with the power and the resources of the state behind them, a situation that can never affect private organisations.”
That doesn’t make it relevant.

“So therefore the very existence of socially-owned organisations is a distortion ofthe market beyond simple supply/demand functions.”
No, in fact the existence of socially owned ‘organisations’ works in tandem with the private sector (eg central planning of major roading infrastructure…paid for out of taxes).

“So therefore state ownership is inconsistent with the defining characteristics of a free market, but it is however the very core of socialism.”
Wrong. Every modern capitalist system has incorporated state ownership of some aspects of the economy. Socialism, on the other hand, steals the means of production from it’s citizenry, and then forces them to produce for artificial prices, a distortion that makes every socialist economy eventually collapse.

“Sure. US fucked Latin America.”
Hahhaha. No what f’d Venezuela was socialism, and it’s many and obvious failings.

“Because if you insist in including capitalism to social ownership, you’re wrong. ”

Social ownership and capitalism are not mutually exclusive. That is the mistake you are making.

Well, this is basically the crux of the disagreement: you have your definition, and I have (as an example of how the term is used by human beings)

wikipedia’s: “Capitalism is an economic system and an ideology based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.”

Oxford English dictionary: “an economic system in which private capital or wealth is used in the production or distribution of goods and prices are determined mainly in a free market; ”

Google “what is capitalism”: “an economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.”

If it’s based on private ownership, then yeah, social ownership and capitalism are mutually exclusive. Them bits that are publicly owned are not “capitalist”.

“Because “Capitalism is an economic system and an ideology based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit””

Can you name a single nation that actually operates with every means of production in private hands? You see your definition may be more accurate if it referred to ‘trade and industry’, but in practice the means of production include things that have to be funded, if not supplied, out of taxes.

Somalia, mid 1990s.
Just because capitalists are almost always propped up by socialist factors in order to maintain their existence, it doesn’t mean that the crutches they lean on are consistent with capitalism.

“It’s relevant because at an extreme end of interpretation, state owned organisations by definition operate with the power and the resources of the state behind them, a situation that can never affect private organisations.”

No, in fact the existence of socially owned ‘organisations’ works in tandem with the private sector (eg central planning of major roading infrastructure…paid for out of taxes).

They’re still a distortion of an otherwise free market.

“So therefore state ownership is inconsistent with the defining characteristics of a free market, but it is however the very core of socialism.”

Wrong. Every modern capitalist system has incorporated state ownership of some aspects of the economy. Socialism, on the other hand, steals the means of production from it’s citizenry, and then forces them to produce for artificial prices, a distortion that makes every socialist economy eventually collapse.

No, almost every modern system is a mix of capitalism and socialism. Some mixed economies are more capitalist than socialist, but all of them have both – except for a few that also have feudalist factors, such as Swaziland or England.

“They’re still a distortion of an otherwise free market.”
I’ve engaged with you before, and every time you are losing an argument, your posts suddenly become extremely long winded. Stick to the point…your words just become obfuscations.
As to the above…bollocks. Markets have co-existed with governments for eons. How is the government providing roading a distortion of the free market? In fact they are paid for by the market, and benefit the market.

How is the government providing roading a distortion of the free market? In fact they are paid for by the market, and benefit the market.

Yes, they are paid for by and benefit the market. That is a market distortion. The behaviour of the government affects the shape and conditions of the market, taking money from some areas and providing advantages to other areas. In the case of roads, the government in effect subsidises road freight to the detriment of rail and sea freight. The logistics market has been significantly distorted by government policy. The market is not “free”.

The market pays. this is a distortion, like a lens distortion. Or waves distorting the surface of a lake. It is a market distortion, as in the market is not in an identical state as what it would have been if left untouched by government.

More people end up sending freight by road than rail or ship, because of government policy. The market does what it does (like a lens keeps refracting), but is it doing exactly the same thing, in exactly the same state, as if the government hadn’t built a road?

“More people end up sending freight by road than rail or ship, because of government policy. ”
Says who? The market pays for the roads, and that gets built into a mechanism called ‘price’. The market also contributes to the cost of rail and shipping. The same applies.

the government made the roads.
Government made the roads from taxes.
Taxpayer-funded road makes road transport more efficient (otherwise no reason to build the road).
Market adjusts to more efficient transport vector.

“Without government intervention, there would be no road work.”
Not necessarily. The market may well make it’s own decisions about the most efficient transport methods and plan accordingly. The Government happens to play that role in mixed market economies. That’s all. Either way, the market pays.

Not necessarily. The market may well make it’s own decisions about the most efficient transport methods and plan accordingly.

What if the market was not going to do it? “may well have” always partners with “might not have”. In which case, the market would have paid for something that it otherwise would not have bought. That’s a distortion.

“What if the market was not going to do it?”
If there is value, the market will do it.

““may well have” always partners with “might not have”. In which case, the market would have paid for something that it otherwise would not have bought. That’s a distortion.”
The market would not pay for something it ‘would not have otherwise bought’. But here’s your problem…you’re saying government managing roading projects is distorting the market. But as the market is paying it doesn’t matter who manages it. There is no distortion.

““may well have” always partners with “might not have”. In which case, the market would have paid for something that it otherwise would not have bought. That’s a distortion.”
The market would not pay for something it ‘would not have otherwise bought’.

Exactly. The market would not have a road without the government forcing the market to pay for the road via taxes.

But here’s your problem…you’re saying government managing roading projects is distorting the market. But as the market is paying it doesn’t matter who manages it. There is no distortion.

There is if the government is building roads that the market wouldn’t choose to. The government is forcing the market to make different choices, as in pay for a road. This is a distortion of the market’s supposed mechanism of operation.

I really don’t know how to make this any more simple for you to understand (or at least fail to evade).

Sue doesn’t have a TV. She reads books.
If jim quietly steals sue’s cash sue and buys her a TV she wouldn’t have bought in the first place, but she watches it anyway because now she has a TV, Sue is now watching TV because of Jim’s actions. Jim has changed (aka distorted) sue’s behaviour. Just because sue is operating independently at both ends of the story doesn’t mean that her behaviour hasn’t been distorted.

If government action changes the behaviour of the market, it’s distorted the market. End of. You can’t plausibly pretend that an entire change in behaviour never happened.

“Exactly. The market would not have a road without the government forcing the market to pay for the road via taxes.”
Rubbish. If the market needed roads, it could initiate them itself.

“The government is forcing the market to make different choices, as in pay for a road.”
Nope. The market also pays for rail and shipping infrastructure. Ultimately, the market pays for government itself.

“Sue doesn’t have a TV. She reads books.
If jim quietly steals sue’s cash sue and buys her a TV she wouldn’t have bought in the first place, but she watches it anyway because now she has a TV, Sue is now watching TV because of Jim’s actions. Jim has changed (aka distorted) sue’s behaviour. Just because sue is operating independently at both ends of the story doesn’t mean that her behaviour hasn’t been distorted.”
The state doesn’t ‘quietly steal’ money from the market. The government is elected by the market, Jim is not elected or accountable to Sue.

“Exactly. The market would not have a road without the government forcing the market to pay for the road via taxes.” Rubbish. If the market needed roads, it could initiate them itself.

That’s the entire fucking point! The market doesn’t decide if a road gets built, the government does. Therefore when the government builds a road that the market didn’t want to pay for but uses anyway, that’s a distortion.

The state doesn’t ‘quietly steal’ money from the market. The government is elected by the market, Jim is not elected or accountable to Sue.

The government is not elected by the market. The government is elected by citizens, some of whom might be involved in the markets regulated by the government, and some people in the markets might not be eligible to vote, or even citizens.

“The market doesn’t decide if a road gets built, the government does.”
Actually that’s not true. The Government may decide when, but it is the market that creates the need and the $$’s.

“Therefore when the government builds a road that the market didn’t want to pay for but uses anyway, that’s a distortion.”
Prove the market didn’t want to pay for it.

“The government is not elected by the market. The government is elected by citizens…”
All of whom are a sub-set of the market in one form or another. Unless they are dead. And come to think of it for a while even the dead are part of the market.

“The market doesn’t decide if a road gets built, the government does.”
Actually that’s not true. The Government may decide when, but it is the market that creates the need and the $$’s.

So great, you’ve admitted that at the very least the government might decide on the timing of when a road is built by the government. Now who decides to recognise that need?
Look at the next banknote you see. Who created it?

“Therefore when the government builds a road that the market didn’t want to pay for but uses anyway, that’s a distortion.”
Prove the market didn’t want to pay for it.

Because the market didn’t choose to build it.

“The government is not elected by the market. The government is elected by citizens…”
All of whom are a sub-set of the market in one form or another. Unless they are dead. And come to think of it for a while even the dead are part of the market.

Everyone? Overseas voters?
And what about the subset who are “in the market” but not eligible to vote? The circles in your venn diagram do not overlap 100%. Markets are not voters.

“So great, you’ve admitted that at the very least the government might decide on the timing of when a road is built by the government.”
Might.
“Now who decides to recognise that need?”
The market…the market elects leaders who respond to those electors. In many (most) socialists states, the government is not elected, at least not democratically.

“Because the market didn’t choose to build it.”
The market paid for it.

“Everyone? Overseas voters?”
Yep. They are past, present or future tax payers. They have a past, present, future stake in NZ Inc.

“And what about the subset who are “in the market” but not eligible to vote?”
They are part of the market. As dependents of voters, future tax payers…

You are struggling, but I sense you are moving the right direction and learning.

“The people “in the market” who were not eligible to vote could not choose whether the government builds a road.”
I never said they could. And I thought you were making progress!
“If government decisions are not market decisions, then government actions are a distortion of the marketplace.”
Hypothetically, even that isn’t the case. Overseas ‘jurisdictions’ make decisions that effect a market, yet the market adjusts. Markets are flexible, and resilient. That’s why market economies survive, and command ones die.

“The people “in the market” who were not eligible to vote could not choose whether the government builds a road.”
I never said they could. And I thought you were making progress!

What you said was

the market elects leaders who respond to those electors.

If not everyone in the market has the vote, then the groups “people in the market” and “voters” are different, if overlapping.
Therefore government decisions about roadbuilding are not market decisions.
So changes in logistics markets resulting from new government roads are government distortions of the market.
So government owned and operated organisations are inconsistent with both the free market and capitalism, but are still consistent with (and the defining characteristic of) socialism.

So modern mixed economies are a mix of capitalism and socialism, and the TVA/WPS etc are examples of socialist policies in the USA, and you don’t know a quarter of what you think you do.

That’s a pretty logical progression which I think rounds the topic out quite nicely. You’re an idiot.

“If not everyone in the market has the vote, then the groups “people in the market” and “voters” are different, if overlapping.
Therefore government decisions about roadbuilding are not market decisions.”
Faulty logic. A bit like saying a government isn’t legitimate because not everyone votes.

A bit like saying a government isn’t legitimate because not everyone votes.

For a champion of free markets, you really do seem to have a problem understanding the difference between “choosing not to vote” and “being forcefully disenfranchised”.

But that’s beside my point, which was actually more like saying that NZ government decisions are not not made by the Wellington City Council (and vice versa), even though many of the same people might be involved in voting for either.

“But that’s beside my point, which was actually more like saying that NZ government decisions are not not made by the Wellington City Council (and vice versa), even though many of the same people might be involved in voting for either.”
Not sure how that is relevant, but for the record, the WCC are also elected by the market. Public servants make bad decisions, but they don’t have a monopoly on that. In a free society, both public servants and free marketeers who make bad decisions should be held to account, and although there are exceptions, the provision is there. In closed economies, such as most socialist systems, there is no accountability, other than the gun.

It was an analogy to try to help you understand that two different groups can have overlapping membership. Obviously it failed, and you decided that in the abscence of understanding you would merely rabbit on about whatever.

The “market” doesn’t elect the government any more than the government of New zealand elects Wellington City Councillors.

It’s no secret the commercial property industry, numbering over 100,000 people in all of its ramifications, favour Labour governments simply because they like vibrant economies. As the past 40 years show, these always accompany Labour’s periods in office.

But, the stultification corresponding with National governments is welcomed by bigger players as it throws up acquisition opportunities…

Bob Jones.

Yet another right winger who can’t debate New Zealand issues by referring to New Zealand, and starts blithering about Venezuela instead.

“Yeah, when he says “acquisition opportunities”, that’s because of the increased numbers of smaller players going under whenever National are in government.”
Cite? I mean other than Bob Jones anecdotes.

Between Labour and the Greens we are already planning to go further than UK Labour in a lot of areas. Even Macron’s manifesto went further in some policies.
National’s budget is strengthening much of the remaining public sector, significantly so in many areas.
Nostalgia ain’t what it used to be.

That would be 10 000 houses for rent built every year in NZ Ad – but last time I looked, NZ Labour intends to have 100 000 houses for rent over 100 years (ie – 1000 a year). And it’s not a ‘new department for housing that UK Labour’s proposing. Councils build council houses. Always have.

Then there’s whole difference between nationalised and a SOE. (One is freed from liberal business constraints – ie, the profit motive, making it a far more effective social provider, while the other isn’t. )

And rent caps.
And free tertiary education.
An end to the process of privatisation in the health service and committing to a huge public investment programme.

Not holding my breath on employment legislation. The last Labour government’s changes weren’t really up to much (The entire legislation was essentially an appeal along the lines of “let’s be nice to one another” that did nothing to address asymmetries of power in the labour market ).

On infrastructure spending (that you reduce to transport spending), it depends on the focus and priorities. AGW needs to be the prime consideration that guides investment and I don’t know whether that’s the case with UK Labour.

The full document is released Thursday UK time. That would be the time to compare and contrast if you’ve a mind to.

How did that planned economy and get rid of profit motive with state running everything go down in Russia, china, Venezuela…., just on a few metrics re quality, innovation, shortages, choice, pollution etc etc Yep those Ladas and the Trabants led the world, love those eastern block housing estates, the shops filled to the brim with no shortages and no ques , state run power chenobyle a great case study, Venezuela is just one big happy society under socialism, yep socialism delivers bill why can’t we just see it and give it another go

Dury out on Au let’s see where their deficit is in 2020, The problem is that the average oz is such and entitlement hog and had it so good for many years by just digging the place up they are unwilling to live with in their means now that the one trick pony is not so profitable Maybe social democrat policies and Au first policies will driver higher GDP to cover increased expenditure and debt, I guess we will see over the next few years

Seems to have a higher death toll than fukishima at this stage, but that’s probably more by luck than anything, one having 25 years more experience and knowledge than the other, or even just being down to which way the wind was blowing. They both have the same severity rating.

As for calling it a success story – piss off. The point was that some fuckwit who says ‘socialism is bad because Chernobyl’ is purposefully ignoring all the crap capitalism throws down, and that’s before we look at the oil, asbestos, or tobacco industries.

Housing:
Speaking on Morning Report, Salvation Army’s senior social analyst, Alan Johnson, said the Salvation Army advocated for a programme like Labour’s KiwiBuild policy to build 100,000 affordable homes for first home buyers.

He said the country needs “an ambitious programme of house building such as we saw back in the 1930s and 1940s because that is the scale of the challenge we are facing right now”.

He said the Government, “rather than messing around with the transfer of state houses” needs to be “a whole lot more ambitious about the number of affordable houses we can build”.

http://www.labour.org.nz/kiwibuild
KiwiBuild will deliver 100,000 affordable houses over ten years for first home buyers. Half of these will be built in Auckland. That is a ten-fold increase in the number of affordable houses being built in Auckland each year, from 500 to 5,000.
Sorry Bill that’s 10,000 new houses per year. And the biggest and most effective NGO in the country committed as of today to support it to the hilt.

Nationalisation:
Might want to check how the difference is spelled out when the actual detail is released there. NZLabour are proposing precisely an even stronger form: turn HNZ back into a Department.

On Infrastructure:
NZGreens have already committed to 100% renewablehttps://www.greens.org.nz/page/energy-policy
The Green Party and NZLabour is going into this election with as close a partnership as we have ever seen. Not even Corbyn is proposing that.

That’s (supposedly) affordable – ie, to buy. I’m not going to dig it out right now, but when NZ Labour announced their ‘affordable homes’ package, it was clear from the numbers that the equivalent number of rental properties (100 000) would be built over a 100 year time span – 1000 homes for rent per year.

Current NZL policy doesn’t specify number of new state rented houses per year. Current focus is on the agency policy settings:

“Labour will:

Immediately stop National’s state house sell off and commit to substantially increasing the number of state houses.

Make Housing New Zealand a public service with one job – a focus on housing people in need, rather than paying a dividend. This will leave Housing New Zealand more money to invest in housing families and fixing up cold, damp state homes.

Restore Housing New Zealand’s focus on the needs of tenants, rather than just being a glorified property manager.”

The self important stupidity of the western bourgeoisie never fails to amuse. For all their middle class pretensions of sophistication and their childish outrage at something not going their way, this pathetic collection of middle class sulkers lack one basic skill – they can’t count enough to add up a parliamentary majority, or understand what that means. They’d rather punish Labour for having a realistic view – and thus deliver the UK to the creepy Teresa May and a bunch of ineffectual hang wringers of the Lib-Dems, than just hold their nose and vote for the lesser of the evils in Labour. They’d rather throw a tantrum over losing the Brexit referendum and let UKIP do a reverse take over of their country than vote for the first decently socialist manifesto with the first decently honest hope of actually being implemented than vote for Labour. Fuck them.

These are the same people who lecture ad naseum from the opinion pages of the liberal broadsheets that everyone else must hold their nose and vote for Hillary, or for Remain, or for Macron because the alternative is JUST SO AWFUL. But when crossed, when their towering middle class egos are crossed, they go full potato tantrum.

A self-indulgent, spoilt and totally unlikeable class. No wonder the working class loath them, and upper class barely tolerate them.

This is what happens when you have an actual socialist in charge. I would be forced to stop and consider voting for Labour if they did this sort of thing in NZ, especially if they combined it with an aggressive climate change policy.

(For those of you who haven’t read my comments around, I am a reasonably vocal critic of Labour from the left and a Green Party member)

by Rafael D. Quiles (gender-critical gay man from Puerto Rico) The writing on the wall is right in people’s faces and people just don’t see it or don’t want to. What could actually possess a heterosexual male to want to feminize himself and claim that he is a lesbian? Because ...

From the Wall Street Journal:Inside a room of the ornately decorated Hotel du Palais during last month’s Group of Seven summit in Biarritz, France, President Trump awaited a meeting with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah Al Sisi. Mr. Trump looked over a gathering of American and Egyptian officials and called out in ...

by the Redline blog collective At Redline we are very saddened to hear of the death of Magdalen Burns who passed away on the morning of Friday, September 13 (British time). Magdalen was a great fighter for the rights of women in general and lesbian women in particular, a defender ...

The Brexit issue has certainly brought with it a series of apparently difficult constitutional issues, many of them concerning the respective roles of the executive and parliament. Most of them arise because of the unwillingness of MPs, despite their professions to the contrary, to be bound by a constitutional rarity ...

. . This blogpost is different to my usual format of reporting on issues… Since July 1011, I have blogged on a variety of political issues; near always political and/or environmental; mostly highly critical of the previous National Government. Other issues included Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands and repression of ...

Those close to the Police Minister believe the initiative may be the result of Nash “seeing a great deal” on AliExpress. In a move that comes seemingly out of nowhere, Police Minister Stuart Nash announced this afternoon that he expects all frontline staff to don bearskin hats, famously worn by ...

The government has released its Arms Legislation Bill, containing the second tranche of changes to gun laws following the March 15 massacre. And it all looks quite sensible: a national gun register, higher penalties for illegal possession and dealing, tighter restrictions on arms dealers and shooting clubs, and a shorter ...

Private prisons are a stain on humanity. Prison operators explicitly profit from human misery, then lobby for longer prisons terms so they can keep on profiting. And in the US, prison companies run not only local and state prisons, but also Donald Trump's immigration concentration camps. Faced with this moral ...

When National was in power, they were very keen on Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) - basicly, using private companies to finance public infrastructure as a way of hiding debt from the public. They were keen on using them for everything - roads, schools, hospitals. But as the UK shows, that "service" ...

Moving And Shaking: There was a time when people spoke matter-of-factly about the “labour movement” – a political phenomenon understood to embrace much more than the Labour Party. Included within the term’s definition was the whole trade union movement – many of whose members looked upon the Labour Party as ...

by Philip Ferguson Much of the left, even people who formally identify as marxists, have collapsed politically in the face of postmodern gender theory of the sort pioneered by American philosopher Judith Butler. For Butler even biological sex is socially constructed. “If the immutable character of sex is contested, perhaps ...

The media is reporting that the (alleged) Labour party sexual assaulter has resigned from their job at Parliament, which means hopefully he won't be turning up there making people feel unsafe in future. Good. But as with everything about this scandal, it just raises other questions. Most significantly: why the ...

By Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern I am every bit as angry as you are. I am every bit as disappointed as you must be. The people with power, oversight and the ability to do something about these processes within the Labour Party should be ashamed. Whoever those people are, I ...

Two-Faced? Labour insiders' commitment to the neoliberal status quo puts them at odds with their party’s membership; its trade union affiliates; and a majority of Labour voters, but this only serves to strengthen the perception they have of themselves as a special elite. Among the lesser breeds, they’ll talk up a ...

There has been a lot of talk about Boris Johnson wanting an election, and he has blustered with great gusto about 'chicken' Jeremy Corbyn refusing one, but I think there are many reasons why he is secretly glad he has been refused the opportunity:The Tories are an utter rabble,tearing themselves ...

Scottish appeal court judges have declared that Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament in the run-up to the October Brexit deadline is unlawful. The three judges, chaired by Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, overturned an earlier ruling that the courts did not have the powers to interfere in the prime ...

By Simon Bridges. The following is a press release from the office of Simon Bridges, leader of The National Party. Key ora, New Zealand. Happy Maori Language Week. Look, I’m writing to you today because I want to clear something up. There’s been a lot of kerfuffle around some things ...

I understand there's some stuff going round about how the SIS "was removed from the list of public offices covered by the Public Records Act in 2017". The context of course being their records derived from US torture, which will be disposed of or sealed. The good news is that ...

Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ...

Australia is burning down again, and meanwhile its natural disaster minister is denying climate change:Australia’s minister responsible for drought and natural disasters, David Littleproud, has said that he doesn’t “know if climate change is manmade”. Clarifying earlier comments that the question is “irrelevant” when considering the Coalition government’s response to ...

Auckland Philippines Solidarity is excited to host Professor Judy Taguiwalo for a speaking tour of NZ in September. She is a well-known activist in the Philippines and was a political prisoner under the Marcos dictatorship. Professor Taguiwalo briefly served as a Cabinet member under President Duterte but was forced from ...

This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...

Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...

An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...

There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...

Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...

During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...

Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...

Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...

As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...

Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...

Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...

by Daphna Whitmore Every Sunday for the past two months unionists from First Union, with supporters from other unions, have set out to the Ihumatao land protest, put up gazebos and gas barbeques, and cooked food for a few hundred locals and supporters who have come from across the country. ...

Newsroom today has an excellent, in-depth article on pine trees as carbon sinks. The TL;DR is that pine is really good at soaking up carbon, but people prefer far-less efficient native forests instead. Which is understandable, but there's two problems: firstly, we've pissed about so long on this problem that ...

Canan Kaftancioglu is a Turkish politician and member of the opposition Republican People's Party (CHP). Like most modern politicians, she tweets, and uses the platform to criticise the Turkish government. She has criticised them over the death of a 14-year-old boy who was hit by a tear gas grenade during ...

Hi there, just call me Tim.We face tough problems, and I’d like to help, because there are solutions.An Auckand District Health Board member has nominated me for as a candidate for the ADHB, because her MS-related pain and fatigue is reduced with hemp products from Rotorua. Nothing else helped her. If I ...

The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has published their report on whether the SIS and GCSB had any complicity in American torture. And its damning. The pull quote is this:The Inquiry found both agencies, but to a much greater degree, the NZSIS, received many intelligence reports obtained from detainees who, ...

Bewhiskered Cassandra? Professor Hugh White’s chilling suggestion, advanced to select collections of academic, military and diplomatic Kiwi experts over the course of the past week, is that the assumptions upon which Australia and New Zealand have built their foreign affairs and defence policies for practically their entire histories – are ...

For most of the time I was a British MP, my party was out of government – these were the Thatcher years, when it was hard for anyone else to get a look-in. As a front-bencher and shadow minister, I became familiar with the strategies required in a parliamentary democracy ...

by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh On August 29th a video in which veteran FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) commander Iván Márquez announced that they had taken up arms again was released. There was no delay in the reaction to it, from longtime Liberal Party figure and former president Uribe, for ...

Air New Zealand couldn’t believe its luck that this seemingly ideal piece of real estate had so far gone entirely unnoticed. Air New Zealand’s search for a site to build a second Auckland Airport may have made a breakthrough this afternoon, after employees scanning Google satellite imagery spotted a huge, ...

No-one on the anti-capitalist left in this country today puts forward a case that Labour is on the side of the working class. There are certainly people who call themselves ‘socialist’ who do, but they are essentially liberals with vested interests in Labourism – often for career reasons. Nevertheless, there ...

When National was in government and fucking over the poor for the benefit of the rich, foodbanks were a growth industry. And now Labour is in charge, nothing has changed: A huge demand for emergency food parcels means the Auckland City Mission is struggling to prepare for the impending arrival ...

Gayford, pictured here on The Project, before things got wildly out of control. A bold public relations move by the Government to encourage parents to vaccinate their children has gone horribly wrong. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern appeared on tonight’s episode of Three’s The Project, where the plan was for her ...

Mr. Whippy’s business model has driven it down a dark road of intimidation. Residents in major centres around the country are becoming disgruntled by the increasingly aggressive actions of purported ice cream company Mr. Whippy, who have taken to parking on people’s front lawns and doorsteps in a desperate attempt ...

Today the government released its Action Plan for Healthy Waterways, aimed at cleaning up our lakes and rivers. Its actually quite good. There will be protection for wetlands, better standards for swimming spots, a requirement for continuous improvement, and better standards for wastewater and stormwater. But most importantly, there's a ...

Today I appeared before the Environment Committee to give an oral submission on the Zero Carbon Bill. Over 1,500 people have asked to appear in person, so they've divided into subcommittees and are off touring the country, giving people a five minute slot each. The other submitters were a mixed ...

Anti-fluoride activists have some wealthy backers – they are erecting billboards misrepresenting the Canadian study on many New Zealand cities – and local authorities are ordering their removal because of their scaremongering. Many New Zealanders ...

So, those who “know best” have again done their worst. While constantly claiming to be the guardians of democracy and the constitution, and respecters of the 2016 referendum result, diehard Remainers (who have never brought themselves to believe that their advice could have been rejected) have striven might and main ...

Following publication of this article, the Ministry has requested it to be noted that this supplied image is not necessarily representative of what the final house will look like, and it “probably won’t be that nice.” As part of today’s long-anticipated reset of the Government’s flagship KiwiBuild policy, Housing Minister ...

Over the next week or two we will be running three synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016). The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Marx began Capital not with a sweeping historical ...

The State Services Commission and Ombudsman have released another batch of OIA statistics, covering the last six months. Request volumes are up, and the core public service is generally handling them within the legal timeframe, though this may be because they've learned to extend rather than just ignore things. And ...

In 1994, I was editing an ambitious street mag called Planet, from a fabled office at at 309 Karangahape Road. The thirteenth issue of the magazine was published in the winter of that year and its cover embodied a particularly ambitious goal: the end of cannabis prohibition.I wanted to do ...

KiwiBuild was one of the Ardern government's core policies. The government would end the housing crisis and make housing affordable again by building 100,000 new homes. Of course, it didn't work out like that: targets weren't met, the houses they did build were in the wrong place, and the whole ...

As the climate crisis escalates, it is now obvious that we need to radically decarbonise our economy. The good news is that its looking easy and profitable for the energy sector. Wind is already cheaper than fossil fuels, and now solar is too:The levellised cost of solar PV has fallen ...

A Crown Asset? For reasons relating to its own political convenience, the Crown pretends to believe that “No one owns the water.” To say otherwise would re-vivify the promises contained in the Treaty of Waitangi – most particularly those pertaining to the power of the chiefs and their proprietary rights ...

Most people would say, no doubt, that they have a pretty good idea of what money is. They live with the reality of money every day. It is what is needed to buy the necessities of life and to maintain a decent standard of living. You get money, they would ...

The article below was an opinion piece that appeared in the Spring 2019 issue of Te Awa (the NZ Green Party’s newsletter) and on the Greens website. In keeping with their policy of hostility to women defending women’s right to female-only spaces, Green bureaucrats have since removed the opinion piece. ...

Longer term readers may remember my complaining that, as a political scientist, it is burdensome to have non-political scientists wanting to engage me about politics. No layperson would think to approach an astrophysicist and lecture him/her on the finer details of quarks and black holes, but everybody with an opinion ...

Joining The Fight: Stevan Eldred-Grigg's argument for New Zealand staying out of the Second World War fails not only on the hard-headed grounds of preserving the country’s strategic and economic interests; and not just on the soft-hearted grounds of duty and loyalty to the nation that had given New Zealand ...

On September 27, School Strike 4 Climate will be striking for a future to pressure the government for meaningful climate action. This time, they've asked adults to join them. And now, Lincoln University and Victoria University of Wellington have signed on:Victoria University of Wellington has joined Lincoln University in endorsing ...

Another day, another constitutional outrage in the UK. This time, the government is saying that if parliament passes a law to stop Brexit before being prorogued, they may just ignore it:A senior cabinet minister has suggested Boris Johnson could defy legislation to prevent a no-deal Brexit if it is forced ...

Dum-de-doo. Children across New Zealand have known him for generations as the lovable giraffe who tells them to exercise, hydrate and not to shove lit cigarettes up their nostrils. But a world renowned giraffe expert says we shouldn’t be getting attached to Life Education’s Harold the Giraffe, as he is ...

By Mike Hosking. Yesterday morning, I waltzed into work, and as I walked past the drones aggressively typing out news on the computers I’ve repeatedly asked to be moved further away from, I caught a glimpse of the words “climate change”, and noticed that suspiciously they weren’t in condescending quotation ...

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National's Deputy Leader Paula Bennett spent the week claiming a serious cover-up in the Prime Minister's office. She used parliamentary privilege to name three of the Prime Minister's closest advisors who, she says, knew about the sexual assault ...

“The Game Animal Council is concerned that the Government’s second tranche of firearms legislation released today may contain unreasonable provisions that will unfairly impact hunters,” says Game Animal Council Chair Don Hammond. ...

Government policy work on the Carbon Zero bill highlights connections between climate change, carbon sequestration and agriculture. Water quality and allocation are also topical with the release of the Draft Policy Statement for Freshwater Management ...

DairyNZ Chief Executive Dr Tim Mackle is welcoming this afternoon’s announcement that consultation on Essential Freshwater has been extended by two weeks - but is calling on the Minister to go further. ...

Immigration New Zealand could really benefit from an large investment of money, comments Ms June Ranson, chair of the New Zealand Association for Migration and Investment (NZAMI) , a leading voice in the immigration sector. “Instead of spending $25m ...

In recent times there has been no shortage of commentary regarding whistleblowers, with the proposed amendments to the Protected Disclosures Act 2000. These are aimed at strengthening the protection available to whistleblowers in New Zealand. That ...

Gun Control NZ strongly welcomes the comprehensive gun law reform bill and calls on all political parties to support it. Gun Control NZ encourages New Zealanders to let their MPs know they support this Bill, submit to the Select Committee, and ...

Federated Farmers agrees with most of the steps by government to protect people from illegal or irresponsible firearms use. But concerns about pest control and the effectiveness of a register remain. ...

Today at Parliament the NZ Drug Foundation released Taking control of cannabis: A model for responsible regulation, a new report that shows how we can take back control of cannabis from organised crime. ...

Smoking kills 5,000 Kiwis each year, so any government policies to help reduce smoking are a good thing. However, the current approaches are not working nor will the proposed limit on flavoured e-liquid that Associate Minister Salesa announced on the news ...

A petition, that promises a significant and dramatic improvement for the New Zealand economy, was handed to Dr Deborah Russell, the MP for New Lynn today. The petition, signed by over 5,000 New Zealanders addresses our crippling level of debt as well ...

The New Zealand Medical Association welcomes the announcement of an Initial Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission. We look forward to working with the newly appointed Chair Hayden Wano and the Commission. “It is vital that the steps to mental health ...

For anyone who even randomly follows the news will know that Hong Kong has been embroiled in demonstrations for months. These sometimes bloody demonstrations initially started as a result of a proposed Extradition Bill whereby there would be special ...

The release yesterday of Port Otago’s financial result for 2019, outlining a 12% increase and profits, including the news that the Chief Executive had received a $100,000 pay increase taking his remuneration to between $610,000-620,000, is like ...

“ I continue to be amazed at the incompetence of this Government when it comes to suicide prevention and mental health. Not only is this Government about to appoint a regional coroner who has a history of under reporting suicides amongst children ...

The Far North District Council (FNDC) and the Whangarei District Council (WDC) have lodged a joint appeal against the Northland Regional Council’s (NRC) omission of precautionary rules in its plan. [1] ...

The Chairman of the Authority, Judge Colin Doherty, has agreed to assist the Hong Kong Independent Police Complaints Council (IPCC) as a member of an international panel to provide high level advice to the IPCC in relation to its proposed "Thematic ...

“Putting families into motels is a temporary fix for desperate situations, rather than a sustainable solution to problems of poverty and homelessness,” says Scott Figenshow, Chief Executive of Community Housing Aotearoa. He was commenting on media ...

The New Zealand Psychological Society (NZPsS) says the current partial strike by 600 psychologists working in district health boards is a sign that temporary fixes to ongoing workforce shortages in the profession are not working. ...

New Zealand’s contribution to military operations in Malaya and Malaysia from the late 1940s to the mid-1960s will be commemorated in a national service held at Pukeahu National War Memorial Park at 11.00am on Monday 16 September. ...

The resignation of the President of the Labour Party over the sex pest allegations was inevitable. It was inevitable because of his appalling handling of the situation so far; and, because in situations like this where there has to be a “fall guy” ...

Yesterday Hon Grant Robertson Minister of Finance issued a welcome ‘clear directive’ in the press to ensure every Government considers the wellbeing of New Zealanders when creating future budgets . ...

The Palestine Solidarity Network Aotearoa has written to Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters today urging that New Zealand condemn the Israeli Prime Minister’s planned annexation of vast tracts of the occupied West Bank of Palestine. ...

Today Ngā Pae o te Māramatanga New Zealand’s Māori Centre of Research Excellence (NPM) releases its next Te Arotahi paper calling on government to pay even closer attention to the issues of whānau and whakapapa within the criminal justice system. ...

“Technology adoption supports higher productivity growth, higher income growth and increased resources to pay for the things New Zealanders’ value. But the main problem facing New Zealand today isn’t too much technology, it’s not enough,” ...

Federated Farmers is asking nicely - please can the Government immediately extend the timeframe of the Essential Freshwater consultation so we can find a pathway forward that provides for both the health of the water, the health of people and the health ...

Youthline applauds the Government’s commitment to boosting mental health and addiction programmes and its intention to establish a Suicide Prevention Office but we urge swifter action in relation to implementing the programmes announced in the last budget ...

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An Auckland mayoral candidate has broken the internet* by announcing a plan for a monorail around the central city. Who is Craig Lord, and is he serious? Alex Braae spoke to him shortly after his campaign launch to find out.The Spinoff local election coverage is made possible thanks to The SpinoffMembers. ...

Antibiotics are becoming increasingly less effective, so what treatments can we use when the drugs stop working? With help from plant extracts, award-winning company HerbScience is set to breathe new life into how we treat bacterial infections.When Cynthia Hunefeld was just 10 years old, her father was hospitalised with a ...

For some, it symbolises the very backbone of New Zealand’s food culture. But can Kiwi onion dip survive after the factory that makes reduced cream is shut down?The Australian factory that makes Nestlé reduced cream, an integral ingredient in Kiwi onion dip, is shutting down, casting a shadow over the ...

Every year Matariki X brings Māori innovators and entrepreneurs together to share their experiences and inspire one another. Callaghan Innovation’s Vinnie Campbell says the Māori economy’s biggest strengths have nothing to do with money.This story was funded by The Spinoff Members. For more about becoming a member and supporting The ...

Today marks the start of Covering Climate Now. To launch the week, the New Zealand climate change minister, James Shaw, writes an open letter to participants in the School Strike 4 Climate ahead of their day of action later this month.The Spinoff’s participation in Covering Climate Now is thanks to ...

National’s new agriculture spokesperson finds himself in one of the party’s most important portfolios, at a time of dramatically increasing tensions in the sector. Will Todd Muller, a man regularly mentioned as a future leader contender, find common ground?Todd Muller’s obsession with politics began with an American encyclopaedia, which his ...

Miss June’s Bad Luck Party was recorded literally between hospital shifts, and their summer schedule includes both festival dates and their frontwoman’s graduation from medical school. We sat down with the band to ask just how, exactly, they’ve survived so far.The first years of life for Tāmaki Makaurau pop-punk quartet ...

The following four short extracts are from A City Possessed: The Christchurch Child Crèche Case by Lynley Hood, which has just been reprinted by Otago University Press. The book was first published in 2001 and won the Montana Medal for Non-Fiction at the Montana New Zealand Book Awards. The controversial ...

Hamilton councillors have drawn headlines this year for being anti-science and insensitive to terror victims. At a mayoral debate on Wednesday, there were signs a campaign for change is gathering force.The Spinoff local election coverage is made possible thanks to The SpinoffMembers. For more about becoming a member and supporting The Spinoff’s journalism click ...

The Spinoff editor writes on the story that has engulfed NZ politics this week.One of the very few positive things to come out of a hideous week in New Zealand politics has been the sieving-out of the blinkered, partisan zealots. On one side, those who are ready to conjure up ...

In June 2018, Rawinia Higgins was appointed chairperson of Te Taura Whiri i te Reo Māori. She’s the first female and the first te reo Māori second-language speaker to hold the role, and during Te Wiki o te Reo Māori, she sat down with The Spinoff to talk about her ...

Compulsory New Zealand history in schools is an exciting opportunity but it’s crucial we’re critical of the stories we tell ourselves, writes Dr Aroha Harris. History is not simply an assemblage of facts and evidence. History is also the interrogation of those things.This may be unsettling news for some, including the ...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Hugh Breakey, Senior Research Fellow, Moral philosophy, Institute for Ethics, Governance & Law, Law Futures Centre, Griffith University Argument is everywhere. From the kitchen table to the boardroom to the highest echelons of power, we all use argument to persuade, investigate new ...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alastair Blanshard, Paul Eliadis Chair of Classics and Ancient History Deputy Head of School, The University of Queensland Comedy often succeeds where tragedy fails. Fangirls, the pop musical which premiered on Thursday night in Brisbane, is not the first drama to explore ...

On the 10th anniversary of the infamous “Imma let you finish” episode, Josie Adams reflects on what this moment revealed about both Taylor Swift and Kanye West.Cast your mind back a decade: 2009 DJ Earworm was still good, Barack Obama was sworn in as president of the US, Israeli ground ...

Analysis - An astounding week in politics has left Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern carrying responsibility for sorting out the mess the Labour Party is in over the sexual assault allegation, writes Peter Wilson. ...

Police Minister Stuart Nash has confirmed details of a new bill that will create a registry of guns, and new offences and penalties for illegal manufacture, trafficking or changing markings of firearms. ...

Charli XCX has just released her latest album, Charli. The futuristic musician is always looking ahead, and so are her fans. We’ve paired each star sign with their perfect Charli XCX song.Charli XCX burst onto the scene in 2012, when she co-wrote and performed electro-pop headbanger ‘I Love It’ with ...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Benedict Sheehy, Associate professor, University of Canberra British health-care conglomerate Bupa runs more nursing homes in Australia than anyone else. We now know its record in meeting basic standards of care is also worse than any other provider. This is more than ...

Fable is best remembered for the disastrous, over-the-top promises made by its designer Peter Molyneux. But maybe, Adam Goodall argues, we’re remembering it all wrong.“There is something I have to say. And I have to say it because I love making games.” So opens an October 2004 post on the ...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Hugh Breakey, Senior Research Fellow, Moral philosophy, Institute for Ethics, Governance & Law, Law Futures Centre, Griffith University Argument is everywhere. From the kitchen table to the boardroom to the highest echelons of power, we all use argument to persuade, investigate new ...

The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Native Son: The Writer’s Memoir by Witi Ihimaera (Penguin Random House, $40)Stand by for a review from ...

Tara Ward delved into Māori TV’s impressive OnDemand catalogue and found some of the best TV taonga for your viewing pleasure. From lifestyle shows to documentaries, from current affairs to reality TV, Māori TV has an abundance of quality telly that celebrates and acknowledges the people, places and cultures of ...

A new poem by London-based poet Morgan Bach.Turning, hurtlingI march diligently to sunshine in the parkeverything bathed and turning golden.A woman breathes fire by the folly framing herlike a personal door to hell. Conkers are pitched from high boughsto break and give up fruit, a spire emergent from the baring ...

Simon Day learns about the history and power of Chinese five-spice. Both the origins of Chinese five-spice and the flavour itself are a little mysterious. My internet investigations revealed the powder’s name could be in reference to the use of five spices (although this often grows to six or seven), or ...

Revelations around alleged sexual assault by a Labour staffer and the party inquiry into his behaviour have dominated the week. Alex Casey and Mihi Forbes join Gone By Lunchtime to survey the damage.Alex Casey, author of the Spinoff feature published on Monday, “A Labour volunteer alleged a violent sexual assault ...

In the fourth episode of Actually Interesting, The Spinoff’s monthly podcast exploring the effect AI has on our lives, Russell Brown speaks to Ana Arriola, general manager and partner at Microsoft AI and Research, about ethics and transparency in tech.Subscribe to Actually Interesting via iTunes or listen on the player below.To download this ...

Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.New Zealand Parliament Buildings, Wellington, New Zealand.Today’s content by Dr Bryce Edwards.Labour Party sexual assault allegations Andrea Vance (Stuff): How to make the Labour abuse scandal ...

Toi Kai Rākau Iti, who is running in the Eastern Bay of Plenty Kohi Māori constituency, encounters an unlikely channel of youth engagement.In te ao Māori you’re always looking for tohu, or symbols. They guide you through uncertain territory and help you make sense of the world. The arrival of ...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tomer Ventura, Senior Lecturer, School of Science and Engineering, University of the Sunshine Coast The creation of all-male or all-female groups of animals, known as monosex populations, has become a potentially useful approach in aquaculture and livestock rearing. Researchers and those in ...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Holmes, Director, Climate Change Communication Research Hub, Monash University Predictably, both major political parties are resisting calls this week for a parliamentary conscience vote to declare a climate emergency in Australia. The resistance is unsurprising because both the Coalition and Labor ...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Elizabeth Shi, Lecturer, Graduate School of Business and Law, RMIT University If the Religious Discrimination Bill passes into law, women may find it harder to get an abortion. That’s because health practitioners with an objection to performing the procedure on religious grounds ...