I would like to believe in such things, but without any solid evidence I never will. I don't believe in in things just because I want to. The world needs great minds to believe and prove the impossible, but I'm not one of them. Show me evidence or don't waste my time, because I don't care.

I would like to believe in such things, but without any solid evidence I never will. I don't believe in in things just because I want to. The world needs great minds to believe and prove the impossible, but I'm not one of them. Show me evidence or don't waste my time, because I don't care.

I myself am skeptical, but I don't downright deny it as a possibility. There's no concrete evidence, but there are proper scientific methods of explaining the phenomenon.

Also, I'm not wasting your time. You are wasting your own time. If you don't care, then simply disappear.

Also, how can you explain how people are able to recount exactly what went on in the room, including conversations. And of course nobody can claim that prize, because it can't be proved, naturally. Lastly, what we are talking about isn't supernatural. It's about the displacement of atoms, which is very much something that can be proven.

If the brain is dead, she would be dead. She wouldn't be able to survive the operation. You can't revive a brain dead person, but you can revive a person whose heart has stopped beating.

How credible is this woman? You know she could be lying? Where are her sources... and confirmation that she's telling the truth?
Why don't I ever hear any of these stories from credible doctors? The doctors in these sort of stories never seem to be real doctors.

Thousands of operations occur each year at my local hospitals; if any of the doctors from those hospitals can confirm someone's out of body experience story, then I'll believe in this "out of body experience" phenomenon. Until then, it is all myths and fantasies.

Also, how can you explain how people are able to recount exactly what went on in the room, including conversations. And of course nobody can claim that prize, because it can't be proved, naturally. Lastly, what we are talking about isn't supernatural. It's about the displacement of atoms, which is very much something that can be proven.

If the brain is dead, she would be dead. She wouldn't be able to survive the operation. You can't revive a brain dead person, but you can revive a person whose heart has stopped beating.

How credible is this woman? You know she could be lying? Where are her sources... and confirmation that she's telling the truth?
Why don't I ever hear any of these stories from credible doctors? The doctors in these sort of stories never seem to be real doctors.

Thousands of operations occur each year at my local hospitals; if any of the doctors from those hospitals can confirm someone's out of body experience story, then I'll believe in this "out of body experience" phenomenon. Until then, it is all myths and fantasies.

I'll just re-quote myself.

"While near death experiences are all "experiences", accounted by thousands of people. The other oddity is that, although varying slightly from person to person, there are a LOT of similarities between people.

Then you have to take into account that these similarities are being reported from people from all parts of the world. India, Japan, United States, Great Brittan, any many more. It's just too large scale for it to be a random coincidence, or a lie."

You can find plenty of reports of the phenomenon from all around the world. If you think the doctors are fake, that's your problem. Also, you cannot pass the experiences off as a lie. A worldwide collaboration of this scale is impossible. Alas, more proof is in the fact that the people change their life styles so drastically after it happens.

Tell me, why would someone who nearly died. Decide to make up a lie? Are all these people who almost die, merely trolls?

I always find it pathetic when non-believes shoot down others by questioning their intelligence as if the belief of such things is a prerequisite to being a fool. That is just their ego defending their world view while it's falling apart.

I tend to agree with you.Science in and of itself has become a religious dogma with a heiarchy of amoral intellectuals at it's head pumping biased theories into unquestioning followers as if it were fact.Just check out Ben Stein's -Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed documentary. See what happens to brilliant minds who dare think that true science leads to the path of a Creator instead of mankind (Hah!) being the creator of God.In the end you have to turn to religion ,introspection, and revelation to answer questions science cannot.All major religions have passed down knowledge to future generations stating that we (humans) are more than what we appear to be and can become more than what we are.That within us resides a divine spark-a soul-that is godlike since it was created. This soul, which is who you really are does not die but when released from the body is you on a different light frequency and vibrational level.The few few moments it lingers in this state outside of the body it can see and here everything-it is the very essence of who you are. The desicion to stay in your body or go to another state of existence seems to be a decision to be made between you and God.This cannot be proven, but there are many things in this world that can't be proven but circumstancial evidence,documentation and reason tell us that they probably do.This is a fascinating subject that is also related to astral travel.A good read on this subject matter while also an autobiograghy are books by T. Lopsang Rampa.

"While near death experiences are all "experiences", accounted by thousands of people. The other oddity is that, although varying slightly from person to person, there are a LOT of similarities between people.

Then you have to take into account that these similarities are being reported from people from all parts of the world. India, Japan, United States, Great Brittan, any many more. It's just too large scale for it to be a random coincidence, or a lie."

You can find plenty of reports of the phenomenon from all around the world. If you think the doctors are fake, that's your problem. Also, you cannot pass the experiences off as a lie. A worldwide collaboration of this scale is impossible. Alas, more proof is in the fact that the people change their life styles so drastically after it happens.

Tell me, why would someone who nearly died. Decide to make up a lie? Are all these people who almost die, merely trolls?

They could be lying to propel their beliefs that the afterlife exists... that their dead family members are waiting for them on the other side. Or like I said before, she could be dreaming about it during the operation since her brain is not dead.

Of course this occurs worldwide, religion is spread worldwide too, in this day and age, word gets out even quicker.
You know in the past, people from Europe and Asia thought that dragons were real right? Doesn't make it true.

"Changing their life drastically after an out of body experience has happened to them"

Because they don't seem to realise they were under heavy medication during the operation... and that oxygen flow to the brain was minimal?

Lastly, if Quantum Mechanics were involved in the displacement of biological molecules, it shouldn't take heavy medication or asystole for someone to experience this.
They should occur spontaneously at any random time.

"While near death experiences are all "experiences", accounted by thousands of people. The other oddity is that, although varying slightly from person to person, there are a LOT of similarities between people.

Then you have to take into account that these similarities are being reported from people from all parts of the world. India, Japan, United States, Great Brittan, any many more. It's just too large scale for it to be a random coincidence, or a lie."

You can find plenty of reports of the phenomenon from all around the world. If you think the doctors are fake, that's your problem. Also, you cannot pass the experiences off as a lie. A worldwide collaboration of this scale is impossible. Alas, more proof is in the fact that the people change their life styles so drastically after it happens.

Tell me, why would someone who nearly died. Decide to make up a lie? Are all these people who almost die, merely trolls?

They could be lying to propel their beliefs that the afterlife exists... that their dead family members are waiting for them on the other side. Or like I said before, she could be dreaming about it during the operation since her brain is not dead.

Of course this occurs worldwide, religion is spread worldwide too, in this day and age, word gets out even quicker.
You know in the past, people from Europe and Asia thought that dragons were real right? Doesn't make it true.

"Changing their life drastically after an out of body experience has happened to them"

Because they don't seem to realise they were under heavy medication during the operation... and that oxygen flow to the brain was minimal?

Lastly, if Quantum Mechanics were involved in the displacement of biological molecules, it shouldn't take heavy medication or asystole for someone to experience this.
They should occur spontaneously at any random time.

They could be lying about that. However all accounts of the events are eerily similar. Also, many of them have had the patient recount events that occurred during the surgery, or revival. When they can map out the exact chain of events, that is nothing less than freaky indeed.

In some situations, the patient has had a serious cardiac arrest, where emergency CPR takes place. They are not on medication during this process, yet they report the out of body experience. So we know that medication is not the trigger for the phenomenon.

Also like I said in post earlier. An experience is not the same as faith, so I wouldn't tangle them together too much.

I always find it pathetic when non-believes shoot down others by questioning their intelligence as if the belief of such things is a prerequisite to being a fool. That is just their ego defending their world view while it's falling apart.

I tend to agree with you.Science in and of itself has become a religious dogma with a heiarchy of amoral intellectuals at it's head pumping biased theories into unquestioning followers as if it were fact.Just check out Ben Stein's -Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed documentary. See what happens to brilliant minds who dare think that true science leads to the path of a Creator instead of mankind (Hah!) being the creator of God.In the end you have to turn to religion ,introspection, and revelation to answer questions science cannot.All major religions have passed down knowledge to future generations stating that we (humans) are more than what we appear to be and can become more than what we are.That within us resides a divine spark-a soul-that is godlike since it was created. This soul, which is who you really are does not die but when released from the body is you on a different light frequency and vibrational level.The few few moments it lingers in this state outside of the body it can see and here everything-it is the very essence of who you are. The desicion to stay in your body or go to another state of existence seems to be a decision to be made between you and God.This cannot be proven, but there are many things in this world that can't be proven but circumstancial evidence,documentation and reason tell us that they probably do.This is a fascinating subject that is also related to astral travel.A good read on this subject matter while also an autobiograghy are books by T. Lopsang Rampa.

They could be lying about that. However all accounts of the events are eerily similar. Also, many of them have had the patient recount events that occurred during the surgery, or revival. When they can map out the exact chain of events, that is nothing less than freaky indeed.

In some situations, the patient has had a serious cardiac arrest, where emergency CPR takes place. They are not on medication during this process, yet they report the out of body experience. So we know that medication is not the trigger for the phenomenon.

Also like I said in post earlier. An experience is not the same as faith, so I wouldn't tangle them together too much.

There's nothing freaky about being able to recount what happened during a surgical procedure. They are always done in the same routine and the same equipment is used.

The person obviously don't dream throughout the procedure. The dream could take place at the end. Dreams occur in short segment... 3-10 seconds. But people often feel like they've dreamed throughout the time they're unconscious.

They could be lying about that. However all accounts of the events are eerily similar. Also, many of them have had the patient recount events that occurred during the surgery, or revival. When they can map out the exact chain of events, that is nothing less than freaky indeed.

In some situations, the patient has had a serious cardiac arrest, where emergency CPR takes place. They are not on medication during this process, yet they report the out of body experience. So we know that medication is not the trigger for the phenomenon.

Also like I said in post earlier. An experience is not the same as faith, so I wouldn't tangle them together too much.

There's nothing freaky about being able to recount what happened during a surgical procedure. They are always done in the same routine and the same equipment is used.

The person obviously don't dream throughout the procedure. The dream could take place at the end. Dreams occur in short segment... 3-10 seconds. But people often feel like they've dreamed throughout the time they're unconscious.

You expect random civilians to be well versed in triage? Or specifically, knowing the difference of sequence between lets say, cardiac arrest procedure, and brain surgery?

Let's not forget that the lady in my OP post, knew exactly what the bone saw looked like, and where they put the tools when done. She also knew who the lead surgeon was, despite having never seen him. She also recounted that one of the surgeons said that the arteries were too small on one side, so that they had to go in from the other side. This was with brain monitoring ear plugs embedded in her.

netdisorderwrote:
So when the brain "dies", it is possible that the atomic function of the brain simply travels outside of the head, allowing the person to have consciousness outside of their own body.

Hmm, I just thought of something. Have you ever read of any accounts where the patient who was experiencing a NDE, was able to see himself. I'm not talking about their physical body that's laying on the hospital bed, I mean the form of their "mind," if you will, that's hovering around the room or whatever.

netdisorderwrote:
So when the brain "dies", it is possible that the atomic function of the brain simply travels outside of the head, allowing the person to have consciousness outside of their own body.

Hmm, I just thought of something. Have you ever read of any accounts where the patient who was experiencing a NDE, was able to see himself. I'm not talking about their physical body that's laying on the hospital bed, I mean the form of their "mind," if you will, that's hovering around the room or whatever.

No I haven't. I don't think it would be possible to see yourself in that situation, because you would be comprised of the most basic elements projecting themselves from your body.

Personally, I wouldn't want this astral projection thing to be permanent. Because I doubt you would be able to control where you go, or even converse with others in the same form. Then again, I don't like the Atheist understanding of death either. The thought of non existence sends unlimited shivers down my spine.

You expect random civilians to be well versed in triage? Or specifically, knowing the difference of sequence between lets say, cardiac arrest procedure, and brain surgery?

Let's not forget that the lady in my OP post, knew exactly what the bone saw looked like, and where they put the tools when done. She also knew who the lead surgeon was, despite having never seen him. She also recounted that one of the surgeons said that the arteries were too small on one side, so that they had to go in from the other side. This was with brain monitoring ear plugs embedded in her.

Personal anecdotes are meaningless.

There are thousands of anecdotes about the supernatural:

Examples:

1. People saying that they've remembered their previous life and could recount what happened in their previous life and going to the town their previous life had live in to prove that they're right

2. People claiming they've seen ghosts

3. People claiming they've talked to a deity

All of these seem like outright lies; especially number 1 where you could do research about the town beforehand, just like the lady in your first post... she could have researched about her own surgical operation... or she knew a nurse in the operation and they've worked together to fabricate the story.

And if you're wondering why people would go to such extent to lie about these things:
Reason: To get money from people who buy their story.

If they are genuinely honest about their supernatural experiences, then they are only deluding themselves... because all of these experiences have a scientific explanation....

1. Out of body experiences occur because the person is under heavy medication and oxygen to the brain is minimal therefore causing the patient to hallucinate