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I decided to actually put time into my recon and see if the points here were actually valid. The biggest issue I saw was that being recon was just too easy compared to the other classes. Why am I able to run and spray with an smg and be successful? Why do i have no sniper sway when trying to aim a shot? Why no matter where my sniper bullet hits, I do 60-75 damage? Why does oracle continue to spam locations of the other team but put me at no disadvantages?
But crying over spilled milk does nothing. So here are some ideas that other games have used.

LIST
~Oracle : Take the player out of combat, such as bf3 and the mav. If i'm using oracle I shouldn't be able to know where people are and also have time to attack them. Making snipers

~Damage : Do what TF2 did for using a sniper rifle, have a form of charge mechanic, the longer it's charged the more damage it does.

~Sway: If you feel that an elite "solider" should have no form of sway, implement an actual form of suppression like bf3, whether the bullets hit or not, shots wising passed your head would even make some of the most advance snipers become suppressed.

~Cloak : Either make it slightly more visable to people, or increase the sound. Battlefield 2142 did a great job with that. Even veteran players wouldn't notice a recon passing by if they weren't looking for one.

~SMG : Disallow the ability to run and spray completely.

And none of that could work for the game, Just disallow the amount of recons or any class for that matter on one team. No more then 3 of the same classes per team.
If you want a tactical game, then make a tactical game.

LIST
~Oracle : Take the player out of combat, such as bf3 and the mav. If i'm using oracle I shouldn't be able to know where people are and also have time to attack them. Making snipers -When I personally use recon I dont use it while Im in combat. I use it to scout up ahead of my team and reveal their positions so this would really do nothing.

~Damage : Do what TF2 did for using a sniper rifle, have a form of charge mechanic, the longer it's charged the more damage it does.-This would lead to more people camping and staying back since they would need to build up some trivial charge meter.

~Sway: If you feel that an elite "solider" should have no form of sway, implement an actual form of suppression like bf3, whether the bullets hit or not, shots wising passed your head would even make some of the most advance snipers become suppressed.-The sway is fine as it is. People have been asking for a suppression mechanic for awhile. We haven't got any word on if they are looking into it or not.

~Cloak : Either make it slightly more visable to people, or increase the sound. Battlefield 2142 did a great job with that. Even veteran players wouldn't notice a recon passing by if they weren't looking for one.-Well the problem with this is that we want the Cloak to be a bit more visible, not completely useless. BF could balance it since there were vehicles that produced loud noises to drown out the cloak sound.

~SMG : Disallow the ability to run and spray completely.-Ugh....SMGs in this game are designed to excel when used in that manor. They are bullet fountains and their strength is in their ability to shower the enemy in bullets.

And none of that could work for the game, Just disallow the amount of recons or any class for that matter on one team. No more then 3 of the same classes per team.
If you want a tactical game, then make a tactical game.

I'm not really sure they want to make a "tactical" game. I think they want to make a fun game that rewards certain mindsets more than others. If we did slap on a limit of class per game, some classes would have to wait longer in MM than others. The ideal situation would be that the community is 33% of each class but its not. Recons would have to wait ages to get into a game while Specialists who I'm told is the least used class would only wait a couple seconds.

Datddat, good discussion. Won't go over what PinkTaco has mentioned, and I won't touch into other online games since don't play BF/COD online. Just single player and on the Xbox. Just what I think of from my play time so far:

Originally Posted by Datddat

I decided to actually put time into my recon and see if the points here were actually valid. The biggest issue I saw was that being recon was just too easy compared to the other classes. Why am I able to run and spray with an smg and be successful?

Anytime I run and spray I have to get them from behind or catch them off guard. If you're doing a frontal attack against a Assault with full HP, you're going to lose most times since the Recon class has low armor and low HP compared to the Assault.

Originally Posted by Datddat

Why do i have no sniper sway when trying to aim a shot? Why no matter where my sniper bullet hits, I do 60-75 damage? Why does oracle continue to spam locations of the other team but put me at no disadvantages?

Sway:
I don't know how you don't see any sway at all. I see alot of sway when I'm scoped up, and have missed several shots due to it. Granted, these were pop shots I was trying to do while standing, and have noticed alot less sway when I'm in cover or prone, but at the same rate if I'm prone and have a bipod, there shouldn't be any sway at all I think. Unless this was intentional to keep to balance the Recon class

Damage:
Rifle (SRS) that does ~90 damage w/o a critical center mass from a sniper still won't take down an opponent. Isn't that what the role of the Recon class is? Also it take forever for the rifle to to shoot a second shot. Compared to the Assault ACR its almost compared if not better (from other people POV since I don't have it yet), its the same type of damage.

Oracle:
Oracle has a limited arc of range. You have to face the direction you want to "spam", however whenever I have it equipped I don't turn it on and run and spray people, I actually use it so that my team mates know the location of the opponents so that a bubble can be activated and the team can advance and clearing the other team. I guess it's all how you use the oracle.

Originally Posted by Datddat

LIST
~Oracle : Take the player out of combat, such as bf3 and the mav. If i'm using oracle I shouldn't be able to know where people are and also have time to attack them. Making snipers

I compare this ability like the Aegis bubble. When it's active they're able to fire their weapons, why would this be any different? If you have it on you're letting the opponent know that you're actively pinging them and that you're also vulnerable to attack if you have it on and running against them anyways.

Originally Posted by Datddat

~Damage : Do what TF2 did for using a sniper rifle, have a form of charge mechanic, the longer it's charged the more damage it does.

Not sure, but I would like to have someone who has an ACR and also play as a Sniper which one could be more OP'd.

Originally Posted by Datddat

~Sway: If you feel that an elite "solider" should have no form of sway, implement an actual form of suppression like bf3, whether the bullets hit or not, shots wising passed your head would even make some of the most advance snipers become suppressed.

I only see sway when I'm scoped up. Is that where you're saying you're not seeing sway. Just like a clarification.

Originally Posted by Datddat

~Cloak : Either make it slightly more visable to people, or increase the sound. Battlefield 2142 did a great job with that. Even veteran players wouldn't notice a recon passing by if they weren't looking for one.

If a veteran player can't see a recon running out in cloak then they're asking for it. I've run in the open in cloak and got taken out. I've also went around and taken my time not in cloak and haven't been detected either. But I will say cloak is very noticeable once you detect a faint shimmer and you just fire at that shimmer.

Originally Posted by Datddat

~SMG : Disallow the ability to run and spray completely.

Maybe I'm not quite following, but you can pretty much do that on the other classes? Plus you really need to really close to take someone down if you're running and gunning.

Originally Posted by Datddat

And none of that could work for the game, Just disallow the amount of recons or any class for that matter on one team. No more then 3 of the same classes per team.
If you want a tactical game, then make a tactical game.

Funny enough, when I started playing as an Assault, I've had the WHOLE team as Assault. I've also played on a match that was all Recon and it worked out and we won. It's all about the teamwork that's being used in the match.

"Sway:
I don't know how you don't see any sway at all. I see alot of sway when I'm scoped up, and have missed several shots due to it. Granted, these were pop shots I was trying to do while standing, and have noticed alot less sway when I'm in cover or prone, but at the same rate if I'm prone and have a bipod, there shouldn't be any sway at all I think. Unless this was intentional to keep to balance the Recon class"

I'm comparing the sway to games such battlefield 3, 2142, and even cod. The sway of this game is a lot more like quake wars enemy territories, or APB. And I completely agree with a bi-pod there should be no sway.

"Maybe I'm not quite following, but you can pretty much do that on the other classes? Plus you really need to really close to take someone down if you're running and gunning."

Handling on assault rifles and such make it so that you can't really run and instantly shoot while doing so or even 1.7 seconds after running.

"Damage:
Rifle (SRS) that does ~90 damage w/o a critical center mass from a sniper still won't take down an opponent. Isn't that what the role of the Recon class is? Also it take forever for the rifle to to shoot a second shot. Compared to the Assault ACR its almost compared if not better (from other people POV since I don't have it yet), its the same type of damage."

Doesn't matter if it will take down or not. It still does way to much damage compared to the other guns. And especially if you get a semi auto sniper rifle. If you played tf2, you'd see that their system was quite fair.

"I compare this ability like the Aegis bubble. When it's active they're able to fire their weapons, why would this be any different? If you have it on you're letting the opponent know that you're actively pinging them and that you're also vulnerable to attack if you have it on and running against them anyways."

Throw a grenade at the player walking with aegis, come up behind and melee him, or walk into the bubble itself and kill the player. But with that in mind I do see where your coming from Aegis should also have an HP bar that allows it to only take X amount of damage.

"Oracle has a limited arc of range. You have to face the direction you want to "spam", however whenever I have it equipped I don't turn it on and run and spray people, I actually use it so that my team mates know the location of the opponents so that a bubble can be activated and the team can advance and clearing the other team. I guess it's all how you use the oracle."

See that's a minority versus a majority (at least in the 30+ hours). I personally feel any mechanic to allow you to see players around objects should take that person out of combat.

I'm not really sure they want to make a "tactical" game. I think they want to make a fun game that rewards certain mindsets more than others. If we did slap on a limit of class per game, some classes would have to wait longer in MM than others. The ideal situation would be that the community is 33% of each class but its not. Recons would have to wait ages to get into a game while Specialists who I'm told is the least used class would only wait a couple seconds.

See if I didn't go to PAX east I would believe that response. But from the way the rep. was explaining the game it didn't come across as such. He said it would be a very tactical shooter where lining up perfect shots would do more damage and team would conquer pugs, etc. And in a lot of way it does have that. But at the same time it doesn't. If you ever played any of the other tom clancy games it's always been about that. Where being silent, and synchronizing shots have won matches. We have so many battlefield, and cod clones out there I just wanted to find a game where people played with that play style.

See if I didn't go to PAX east I would believe that response. But from the way the rep. was explaining the game it didn't come across as such. He said it would be a very tactical shooter where lining up perfect shots would do more damage and team would conquer pugs, etc. And in a lot of way it does have that. But at the same time it doesn't. If you ever played any of the other tom clancy games it's always been about that. Where being silent, and synchronizing shots have won matches. We have so many battlefield, and cod clones out there I just wanted to find a game where people played with that play style.

Hard to take you seriously, since this is your thread calling for the complete removal of a class. FYI- the Aegis DOES reduce duration via damage done to it.

I like that, in phase 1, Recons were OP and that's why they were so popular. Now players just, by and large, view them as dead weight. I've always thought that the problem with Recons was that they generally don't push the capture point and end up losing matches. Where high score comes from points capped an not kills (unless you go ham), then it's truly baffling why I don't see more aggressive recons. Tomorrow I may try a forward sniper, just to see how well it works. Maybe some experience might shed some light on it :/

I tried and failed already Chem..... My main problem was I never had time too make 2 shots. I would shoot first, hit for 70ish dmg then before I could reload I would be dead. Flanking sniper recon ftw!.............not