Hmmmm interesting. It sounds like a great improvement for Live
users, basically the ability to customize and create devices.
But how does that benefit me the Max user? Will I be able to
load my patcher made in Max5 as a device in Live8? The press
release does not clarify this.

Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 12:10
—————————————————-
> Hmmmm interesting. It sounds like a great improvement for Live
> users, basically the ability to customize and create devices.
> But how does that benefit me the Max user? Will I be able to
> load my patcher made in Max5 as a device in Live8? The press
> release does not clarify this.
—————————————————-

I will only know for sure how perfect it is for me after being able to have a proper test run, but atm both programs are highly useful for me, and to have an intelligent dialogue between the 2. well, it looks like it’s gonna be all kinds of beautiful.

No, the info released does not say you can open Max5 patches
in Live. It says you can create devices with the objects
that come with "Max for Live" and customize those. It sounds
like "Max for Live" is a subset of Max5.

You Cycling folk feel free to correct me. I hope I am wrong
because such a thing would be my timeline dreams come true…

Quote: Veqtor wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 14:17
—————————————————-
> I hope you can use other UI object than the once that are "Live" objects. Especially the stuff like the matrix object, which I believe there is no substitute for in the Live enviroment.
—————————————————-

The preview shows the default Max knob being used in a Live device so it seems like you can.

too bad it takes both payed upgrades for live 8 + the max for live add-on. would have been neat if it was free to people who own max already.

Quote:

Attention Max users!

The equation works both ways: If you already own Max, Max for Live provides straightforward tools for controlling Live from your Max environment. Maybe you want to exploit Live’s timeline, or work some magic with the Session View—it’s up to you. If you own Max 5, this will be your editing environment when you open up a Max for Live device. Please note, though, that Max for Live doesn’t include a version of Live.

i’m sure it’s early to ask this, however, is i’m a live user interesting in MAx for Live is there are reason i should upgrade my old max license to max 5, or should i just save my money and use it to buy Max for Live?

Robert Henke of Ableton said "Max = MaxMSP/Jitter" in the recent
discussions on their forum. Subject to change, I reckon, but that’s my
guess too – my rig would be f*cked without it, and I’m no VJ…

Andreas
—

Michael Hetrick skrev:
> I have to say, this is probably the biggest news for electronic musicians I’ve heard in a long time. I cannot even begin to say how excited I am for this.
>
> What I’m really interested to know is if there will also be Jitter functionality, so that we can also turn Live into the ultimate VJ device…
>

Quote: James Drake wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 00:49
—————————————————-
> i also want to know what the deal is re: money
>
> if i own max 5 already does that mean i can automatically use max inside of live 8?
—————————————————-

Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 21:05
—————————————————-
> No, the info released does not say you can open Max5 patches
> in Live. It says you can create devices with the objects
> that come with "Max for Live" and customize those. It sounds
> like "Max for Live" is a subset of Max5.
>
> You Cycling folk feel free to correct me. I hope I am wrong
> because such a thing would be my timeline dreams come true…
—————————————————-

Max for Live is, well, a superset of Max. :) MaxMSPJitter + special features for Live integration

If you want to create a Max Device from a Max patch, you can currently copy and paste the main patcher into an empty device. We’ll probably offer a simple converter at some point, as well.

That’s correct. If you own Max, you still need to purchase a) Live 8 and b) the Max for Live feature for Live 8. Prices are not yet announced, but if you already own Max (and Live), it won’t break your bank.

jb

Quote: Brennon Bortz wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 01:56
—————————————————-
> Quote: James Drake wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 00:49
> —————————————————-
> > i also want to know what the deal is re: money
> >
> > if i own max 5 already does that mean i can automatically use max inside of live 8?
> —————————————————-
>
> Quoting from the press release:
>
> "Available as an add-on product to Ableton’s newly announced Live 8…"
>
> I would assume that means we have to purchase an add-on for Live…
—————————————————-

When you hit the edit button on your device, Max (or the Max in Live Editor) comes to the front, where you edit your device in Max fashion. While this is happening, Live-based audio and MIDI are still being routed to and from the patch you are editing in Max — that is, you can hear what you are doing in Max. When you save and close the device in Max, you can return to Live and work with the updated device’s interface from the Live device chain.

So, Live is where you "use" the device, Max is where you edit.

jb

Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:08
—————————————————-
> Ok so will editing still happen in Max the application or will editing be possible from within Live? The video would suggest yes, but it’s hard to tell whether Max is just opened in the background.
—————————————————-

Max for Live comes with a "Max Editor" (name tba), which is essentially a full install of Max with no built-in support for audio or midi communication — audio and midi get in and out of the Editor via Live. If you own Max, you can use "normal Max" for your "normal Max stuff" and either Max or the "Max Editor", as you prefer, for editing Max Devices from Live.

So purchasing Max for Live essentially enables the Edit Button on the Max Device. If you don’t own the full version of Max, the only Max editing you’ll do is in the context of Live.

jb

Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:14
—————————————————-
> Ah, so Non-Max users should be able to buy Max for Live and use devices others have made correct? Sort of a Runtime within live? But without Max there’s no way to create.
—————————————————-

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 19:27
—————————————————-
> Max for Live comes with a "Max Editor" (name tba), which is essentially a full install of Max with no built-in support for audio or midi communication — audio and midi get in and out of the Editor via Live. If you own Max, you can use "normal Max" for your "normal Max stuff" and either Max or the "Max Editor", as you prefer, for editing Max Devices from Live.
>
> So purchasing Max for Live essentially enables the Edit Button on the Max Device. If you don’t own the full version of Max, the only Max editing you’ll do is in the context of Live.
>
> jb
>
> Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:14
> —————————————————-
> > Ah, so Non-Max users should be able to buy Max for Live and use devices others have made correct? Sort of a Runtime within live? But without Max there’s no way to create.
> —————————————————-
>
>
—————————————————-

I see, so Max for Live devices will be available to anyone then. My god you guys have just created a new industry.

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 01:27
—————————————————-
> So purchasing Max for Live essentially enables the Edit Button on the Max Device. If you don’t own the full version of Max, the only Max editing you’ll do is in the context of Live.
>
> jb

so if you don’t buy the max for live addon, you can still run your max patches in live, just can’t edit them?

Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:32
—————————————————-
> I see, so Max for Live devices will be available to anyone then. My god you guys have just created a new industry.
—————————————————-

Well, take that with a grain of salt. I never pay close enough attention during the marketing discussions. It may be that you need the Max in Live add-in to use the devices at all (which includes editing). I’ll provide a more definitive answer after I’ve checked in with someone who spends more time thinking about that stuff…

Pluggo hasn’t been forgotten. And, as Stefan noted, a lot of the work we’ve done to get Max for Live working over the past couple of years is directly applicable to some potential version of Pluggo for Max 5 in the future. Max for Live will be released first, though. I can’t offer any specific information about the ifs or whens of a Pluggo release. Thanks for bearing with!

Users cannot use Max Devices without installing Max, obviously. Once Max is installed, they can use them, but they have to put Live into demo mode, if they don’t own Max for Live.

So maybe this is not exactly what you were hoping for, but you can probably understand why it is going to work this way.

jb

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:40
—————————————————-
> Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:32
> —————————————————-
> > I see, so Max for Live devices will be available to anyone then. My god you guys have just created a new industry.
> —————————————————-
>
> Well, take that with a grain of salt. I never pay close enough attention during the marketing discussions. It may be that you need the Max in Live add-in to use the devices at all (which includes editing). I’ll provide a more definitive answer after I’ve checked in with someone who spends more time thinking about that stuff…
>
> jb
—————————————————-

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 20:08
—————————————————-
> OK, here’s the "definitive answer":
>
> Users cannot use Max Devices without installing Max, obviously. Once Max is installed, they can use them, but they have to put Live into demo mode, if they don’t own Max for Live.
>
> So maybe this is not exactly what you were hoping for, but you can probably understand why it is going to work this way.
>
> jb
>
> Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:40
> —————————————————-
> > Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:32
> > —————————————————-
> > > I see, so Max for Live devices will be available to anyone then. My god you guys have just created a new industry.
> > —————————————————-
—————————————————-

Ok so basically none of it will work without both Max 5 and Live 8 installed?

I’m not so much hoping as trying to clear up what we’re dealing with here. I use both and I’m seriously licking my chops over all of this. Thanks Jeremy for taking the time to clarify all this.

Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:23
—————————————————-
> Ok so basically none of it will work without both Max 5 and Live 8 installed?
>
> I’m not so much hoping as trying to clear up what we’re dealing with here. I use both and I’m seriously licking my chops over all of this. Thanks Jeremy for taking the time to clarify all this.
>
—————————————————-

Think of it this way. Max for Live is a) a full install of Max + b) a full install of Live + c) the "bridge" code so that a) knows how to talk to b). You will always need Live for this to work (Max for Live is a _Live_ addon). You don’t need to own MaxMSP to use/edit in Max for Live (although it needs to be installed for its built-in objects, shared libraries, etc.) — in this case the Editor, with no audio/midi capabilities of its own, is used for all editing, and editing can only happen within a Live context. If you own MaxMSP, as well, you can use the normal MaxMSP app as your editor, and will be able to use MaxMSP as normal for non-Live editing, audio and MIDI communication, etc.

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 20:31
—————————————————-
> Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:23
> —————————————————-
> > Ok so basically none of it will work without both Max 5 and Live 8 installed?
> >
> > I’m not so much hoping as trying to clear up what we’re dealing with here. I use both and I’m seriously licking my chops over all of this. Thanks Jeremy for taking the time to clarify all this.
> >
> —————————————————-
>
> Think of it this way. Max for Live is a) a full install of Max + b) a full install of Live + c) the "bridge" code so that a) knows how to talk to b). You will always need Live for this to work (Max for Live is a _Live_ addon). You don’t need to own MaxMSP to use/edit in Max for Live (although it needs to be installed for its built-in objects, shared libraries, etc.) — in this case the Editor, with no audio/midi capabilities of its own, is used for all editing, and editing can only happen within a Live context. If you own MaxMSP, as well, you can use the normal MaxMSP app as your editor, and will be able to use MaxMSP as normal for non-Live editing, audio and MIDI communication, etc.
>
> Does that make sense?
>
> jb
—————————————————-

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:31
—————————————————-
> Think of it this way. Max for Live is a) a full install of Max +
> b) a full install of Live + c) the "bridge" code so that
> a) knows how to talk to b).
>
> Does that make sense?
—————————————————-

That makes sense, absolutely!
Thanks Jeremy for these extra explanations.

Btw, what one could expect about device’s audio performances in terms of speed?

Jeremy, congrats on your fantastic work! So I think i understand you correctly. If i own Max 4.6 and was thinking of upgrading to 5 however i’ll most likely never use Max outside of Live again, then it’s better to just save my money and buy the Max for live addon. as it’s a full version of Max 5 and the only limits are that it only works while in Live.

I only need the MAx 5 upgrade license if I ever plan to program outside of Live?

Quote: Ben Casey wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:52
—————————————————-
> Jeremy, congrats on your fantastic work! So I think i understand you correctly. If i own Max 4.6 and was thinking of upgrading to 5 however i’ll most likely never use Max outside of Live again, then it’s better to just save my money and buy the Max for live addon. as it’s a full version of Max 5 and the only limits are that it only works while in Live.
>
> I only need the MAx 5 upgrade license if I ever plan to program outside of Live?
—————————————————-

How about this, might be a stretch: any word on Max For Live
educational discounts? The Max 5 ed. discount is so good that I just
don’t want to give that up.

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Ben Casey wrote:
>
> Jeremy, congrats on your fantastic work! So I think i understand you correctly. If i own Max 4.6 and was thinking of upgrading to 5 however i’ll most likely never use Max outside of Live again, then it’s better to just save my money and buy the Max for live addon. as it’s a full version of Max 5 and the only limits are that it only works while in Live.
>
> I only need the MAx 5 upgrade license if I ever plan to program outside of Live?
>

congratulations for maxforlive – finally i dont have to feel bad for
using live anymore!
and we get numberboxes with real corners – now i can make friends with
max5 ;)
cant wait to get my hands on this…

I know you’re going to be sick of questions soon (if not already):
here’s mine.

Ableton’s video suggests that Max is available inside Live as an
editor extension so that instruments embedded in Live project files
can be altered and saved in place. Said project files can then be
shared, and (presumably) instruments can be moved between projects in
the manner that tracks (with instruments) can be dragged between
projects at the moment.

How does this square with Max’s orientation to a file system, with
search paths, named sub-patchers, and a whole chunk of API dedicated
to locating files and normalising filenames? If Max for Live cannot
handle poly~ then it becomes a bit awkward to build polysynths for it
– but poly~ has something of a dependency on file lookup. Ditto the
FFT stuff, replicated bpatchers, and so on.

Quote: nick rothwell / cassiel wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:36
—————————————————-
> On 16 Jan 2009, at 02:31, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
>
> > Does that make sense?
>
> I know you’re going to be sick of questions soon (if not already):
> here’s mine.
>
> Ableton’s video suggests that Max is available inside Live as an
> editor extension so that instruments embedded in Live project files
> can be altered and saved in place. Said project files can then be
> shared, and (presumably) instruments can be moved between projects in
> the manner that tracks (with instruments) can be dragged between
> projects at the moment.
>
> How does this square with Max’s orientation to a file system, with
> search paths, named sub-patchers, and a whole chunk of API dedicated
> to locating files and normalising filenames? If Max for Live cannot
> handle poly~ then it becomes a bit awkward to build polysynths for it
> – but poly~ has something of a dependency on file lookup. Ditto the
> FFT stuff, replicated bpatchers, and so on.
—————————————————-

As long as it’s acknowledged that we sleep sometimes, I don’t think there’s a problem! :)

Without going into great detail about what it is or how it works, we have a solution for dealing with ‘project management’ and search paths which will minimize the portability problems. Vague and reassuring enough?

> Without going into great detail about what it is or how it works, we
> have a solution for dealing with ‘project management’ and search
> paths which will minimize the portability problems. Vague and
> reassuring enough?

Quote: f.e wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 12:06
—————————————————-
> Awesome ! Thanks for the hard work ! It’s Christmas in January.
>
> A couple of questions in order to understand if we will definitely be
> able to compose music using Live as a timeline :
>
> 1 – how do a Max based step sequencer interact with a Live track in the
> timeline ? do we see the notes / patterns created with it on a Live midi
> track ? or does it work like FL Studio when it’s loaded as a plugin in a
> host ?
> 2 – do Live have a text based track that could send message to a Max patch ?
—————————————————-

1) Think of Live as being ‘the hardware’ which sits behind "midiin", "midiout", "plugin~" and "plugout~". If you build a step sequencer instrument for Live (as we have), timing info comes in (via the ITM system — the "transport" object is locked to the Live transport), MIDI comes in from Live via "notein" or whatever, and your Device responds as you have programmed it. If you define note sequences in the Device, you can use several methods — Live presets are probably the best one — to save and restore these. If you really wanted to create a new MIDI clip with the note content you’ve defined in your Device, this will also be possible using the Live API objects (live.path, live.object, live.observer), but that wouldn’t be the simplest of solutions.

2) No, Live sends MIDI, audio and timing data to your patch. If you want your patch to receive a message at 3.4.142, have it respond to that time, or have it respond to a MIDI message which arrives then in some fashion.

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 20:07
—————————————————-
> Quote: Ben Casey wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:52
> —————————————————-
> > Jeremy, congrats on your fantastic work! So I think i understand you correctly. If i own Max 4.6 and was thinking of upgrading to 5 however i’ll most likely never use Max outside of Live again, then it’s better to just save my money and buy the Max for live addon. as it’s a full version of Max 5 and the only limits are that it only works while in Live.
> >
> > I only need the MAx 5 upgrade license if I ever plan to program outside of Live?
> —————————————————-
>
> That is correct.
>
> jb
—————————————————-

Quote: marlon brando wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 12:47
—————————————————-
> Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 20:07
> —————————————————-
> > Quote: Ben Casey wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:52
> > —————————————————-
> > > Jeremy, congrats on your fantastic work! So I think i understand you correctly. If i own Max 4.6 and was thinking of upgrading to 5 however i’ll most likely never use Max outside of Live again, then it’s better to just save my money and buy the Max for live addon. as it’s a full version of Max 5 and the only limits are that it only works while in Live.
> > >
> > > I only need the MAx 5 upgrade license if I ever plan to program outside of Live?
> > —————————————————-
> >
> > That is correct.
> >
> > jb
> —————————————————-
>
> I have Max/MSP but will also only use it within Live,
>
> Should I sell my Max/MSP lisence?
>
>
> Cheers
—————————————————-

> Hi Jeremy,
>
> Thanks for all the info you are feeding to us..
>
> I’ve got just one quick question.
>
> Would it be possible to drag a audio clip into a buffer located in a
> MaxforLive device?
> That would be great for all granular and beatslicing, etc stuff….
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Wilco
>
>

Great,this is great in both ways, Max for Live and Live for Max.
My questions are many, from the fact that it looks like a new instrument definition for example, to more practical ones:

1) Are send and receives objects going to be global, which means that I could have timing data/signals/whatever shared amongst Max for Live Devices for example, and a Max patch running?For example allowing me to bypass MIDI sync signals?
Or will it be an "only in Live" thing?

2) Will certain objects such as hi be available directly in the Live environment, and the possibility of using them directly inside a Live project?

, wha so many!!!

Any way I make my compliments, and I cannot wait too long, as many I use both extensively and I am burning for it!

BTW if there are people like me wanting to know how much the APC40
controller is going to cost. I’ve just seen in a sonicstate.com video that
the expected price is 399 euro/dollar and is released in may.

Wilco

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Emmanuel Jourdan
> wrote:

> There’s an object called live.drop intendeed for that purpose.
>
> ej
>
>
> On 16 janv. 09, at 13:30, wilco alkema wrote:
>
> Hi Jeremy,
>>
>> Thanks for all the info you are feeding to us..
>>
>> I’ve got just one quick question.
>>
>> Would it be possible to drag a audio clip into a buffer located in a
>> MaxforLive device?
>> That would be great for all granular and beatslicing, etc stuff….
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>> Wilco
>>
>>
>>
>

Quote: Jabbo wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 14:16
—————————————————-
> Great,this is great in both ways, Max for Live and Live for Max.
> My questions are many, from the fact that it looks like a new instrument definition for example, to more practical ones:
>
> 1) Are send and receives objects going to be global, which means that I could have timing data/signals/whatever shared amongst Max for Live Devices for example, and a Max patch running?For example allowing me to bypass MIDI sync signals?
> Or will it be an "only in Live" thing?

Live (+ any hosted libraries, incl. M4L) and Max are two separate processes and don’t share memory. That means that things like send and receive will NOT work for communication between Live and Max. Naturally, send and receive work fine within the Max Device context, though — devices can conceivably talk to one another, although if you’ve ever tried that in Pluggo, you probably know that there are caveats. OTOH, you can send network signals (udpsend/udpreceive, for instance) between processes…

> 2) Will certain objects such as hi be available directly in the Live environment, and the possibility of using them directly inside a Live project?

I haven’t tested this specifically, but there’s no reason why it wouldn’t work.

Quote: strimbob wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 15:36
—————————————————-
> this looks brill!!!
>
> will you be able to use jitter in side live?,
> if this is the case it will be the best news of all time,
> but either way it will be the best
>
> mint
—————————————————-

Quote: waveplant wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 18:07
—————————————————-
> thanks, jb – i know all of us are really excited about this and your clarification is really helping.
>
> what about using send and receive between different patches on different tracks in live? as long as everything is within the Max For Live environment, will that type of communication work?
>
>
—————————————————-

Sure, that will work. If you’ve ever tried something like that in Pluggo, you’ll know that there can be unexpected behavior as a result (think about it: Live has, internally, some notion of a signal chain and send and receive can be used to circumvent the calculated order of operations in some cases, leading to unexpected results. I seem to remember that there can be latency issues when using send and receive in Pluggo, but that problem may not apply in M4L (we’ve made some improvements to the way multiple devices are scheduled)).

Anyway, I use Pluggo here only as a ballpark reference. M4L has much, much more to it than Pluggo.

I guess, the question is whether you want to do that (even if it is possible).

The whole world is suddenly becoming not just more powerful but also more complex, and at the end of the day, devices are still devices plugged into and interacting with a conductor getting fed information from him (and responding).

I guess, it will take alot of time to master that new complexity even without randomly interconnected devices…but then again, go ahead ;-)

I am interested in the initial stability of that huge thing….

By the way, jeremy, not sure whether this was asked before, do you know about OSC support for Live 8 ? understanding you sitting here in Berlin :-)

Quote: monohusche wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 18:26
—————————————————-
> By the way, jeremy, not sure whether this was asked before, do you know about OSC support for Live 8 ? understanding you sitting here in Berlin :-)
—————————————————-

Whatever I might know goes with me to my grave until such time as there has been a feature announcement confirming or denying said knowledge.

Just to clarify, I think that Jeremy is talking about send~ and
receive~ for signals. Send & receive (control) just work fine between
several Live devices that are put in several Live tracks, just like
between two different patches in Max – if that is what you were
wondering about.

_M

On 16 janv. 09, at 18:13, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:

>
> Quote: waveplant wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 18:07
> —————————————————-
>> thanks, jb – i know all of us are really excited about this and
>> your clarification is really helping.
>>
>> what about using send and receive between different patches on
>> different tracks in live? as long as everything is within the Max
>> For Live environment, will that type of communication work?
>>
>>
> —————————————————-
>
> Sure, that will work. If you’ve ever tried something like that in
> Pluggo, you’ll know that there can be unexpected behavior as a
> result (think about it: Live has, internally, some notion of a
> signal chain and send and receive can be used to circumvent the
> calculated order of operations in some cases, leading to unexpected
> results. I seem to remember that there can be latency issues when
> using send and receive in Pluggo, but that problem may not apply in
> M4L (we’ve made some improvements to the way multiple devices are
> scheduled)).
>
> Anyway, I use Pluggo here only as a ballpark reference. M4L has
> much, much more to it than Pluggo.
>
> jb

Quote: manuel wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:30
—————————————————-
> Just to clarify, I think that Jeremy is talking about send~ and
> receive~ for signals. Send & receive (control) just work fine between
> several Live devices that are put in several Live tracks, just like
> between two different patches in Max – if that is what you were
> wondering about.
>
> _M
>
>
> On 16 janv. 09, at 18:13, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
>
> >
> > Quote: waveplant wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 18:07
> > —————————————————-
> >> thanks, jb – i know all of us are really excited about this and
> >> your clarification is really helping.
> >>
> >> what about using send and receive between different patches on
> >> different tracks in live? as long as everything is within the Max
> >> For Live environment, will that type of communication work?
> >>
> >>
> > —————————————————-
> >
> > Sure, that will work. If you’ve ever tried something like that in
> > Pluggo, you’ll know that there can be unexpected behavior as a
> > result (think about it: Live has, internally, some notion of a
> > signal chain and send and receive can be used to circumvent the
> > calculated order of operations in some cases, leading to unexpected
> > results. I seem to remember that there can be latency issues when
> > using send and receive in Pluggo, but that problem may not apply in
> > M4L (we’ve made some improvements to the way multiple devices are
> > scheduled)).
> >
> > Anyway, I use Pluggo here only as a ballpark reference. M4L has
> > much, much more to it than Pluggo.
> >
> > jb
>
>
—————————————————-

Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
> Quote: strimbob wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 15:36
> —————————————————-
>
>> this looks brill!!!
>>
>> will you be able to use jitter in side live?,
>> if this is the case it will be the best news of all time,
>> but either way it will be the best
>>
>> mint
>>
> —————————————————-
>
>
> yes.
>
> jb
>
oooh…

One question thats been buggin me is that I own Live (not 8 but will upgrade once its out) and I own Max5.

So in order to use Max5 in Live I would need to purchase the "Max for Live" add on… If thats the case will there be any reduction in price for the "Max for Live" add on for owners of Max 5? Seeing that people who just buy "Max for Live" get the upgrade price option for a full version of Max5?

Pricing info hasn’t been released, but as has been written elsewhere in this thread, if you own both Max 5 and Live 8, the price of the Max for Live addon will be very reasonable.

jb

Quote: comfy wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 19:02
—————————————————-
> One question thats been buggin me is that I own Live (not 8 but will upgrade once its out) and I own Max5.
>
> So in order to use Max5 in Live I would need to purchase the "Max for Live" add on… If thats the case will there be any reduction in price for the "Max for Live" add on for owners of Max 5? Seeing that people who just buy "Max for Live" get the upgrade price option for a full version of Max5?
>
>
—————————————————-

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:06
—————————————————-
> Pricing info hasn’t been released, but as has been written elsewhere in this thread, if you own both Max 5 and Live 8, the price of the Max for Live addon will be very reasonable.
>
> jb

>
> Let me be your spiritual advisor. As Max licenses are non-transferrable,
> you would be effectively disabling the license for the buyer. Only the
> original registered licensee can authorize the software.
>
> So hold on to your license, as it is no good to anyone else.
>
> -Ben
>
>
>

I have been entirely absent from the Max/MSP community for some years now, having been converted to the massive amount of productivity I found in other tools (specifically, Live). My license for Max/MSP 4.6 and Jitter sits on an iLok, sadly living in a dark drawer, never to grace my Intel-based MacBook.

However, this new announcement brings me a great deal of excitement. I loved the ability to craft new tools in Max/MSP but the feedback cycle between building a tool and making it be immediately usable meant that I rarely accomplished a lot directly inside Max/MSP. This new collaboration seems like it will neatly chop out that limiting factor, opening up the world of building tools once again.

I’m personally excited by a number of things: the ability to use Max as a way to make Live OSC-aware, the idea of having the Monome community’s Max patches available inside Live, and the new Max for Live device sharing that will crop up.

So, I’m glad to be back! Looking forward to Max for Live so I can start patching again.

I am a Live user but also recently downloaded Max to debug/update a patch which converts midi notes to DMX commands for lights. I currently use this to play ‘songs’ in live which, in fact, control my light show when I DJ.

Will I be able to use external modules in ‘Max for Live’?

My understanding is that in ‘Max for Live’ Midi/Audio in/out is limited to Live, but will I be able to use the module I have to talk to my USB-DMX cable inside a ‘Max 4 Live’ patch and receive midi notes from Live then send them out to my DMX cable.

This would help decide for me whether I will purchase Max or Max for Live instead.

I am a Live user but also recently downloaded Max to debug/update a patch which converts midi notes to DMX commands for lights. I currently use this to play ‘songs’ in live which, in fact, control my light show when I DJ.

Will I be able to use external modules in ‘Max for Live’?

My understanding is that in ‘Max for Live’ Midi/Audio in/out is limited to Live, but will I be able to use the module I have to talk to my USB-DMX cable inside a ‘Max 4 Live’ patch and receive midi notes from Live then send them out to my DMX cable.

This would help decide for me whether I will purchase Max or Max for Live instead.

> wow, this looks pretty incredible. almost makes me want to switch
> over from cubase to live, but its just too different :P

I started with Performer more than 20 years ago, and used Digital
Performer under OS 9 (remember that?) for quite a while, but switched
to Live two or three years ago. For something that’s often dismissed
as a DJ tool, it is a superbly engineered piece of software which is
more than up to the task of composing and assembling complete works –
I’ve used it for commercial recording and for two-hour gallery
soundtracks. In particular, the automation machinery is well designed
and robust. It’s a bit lacking in the ProTools-style soundbite editing
and finicky tempo control, but maybe Max4Live will kick things into
gear.

> I am a Live user but also recently downloaded Max to debug/update a
> patch which converts midi notes to DMX commands for lights. I
> currently use this to play ‘songs’ in live which, in fact, control
> my light show when I DJ.
>
> Will I be able to use external modules in ‘Max for Live’?

yep.

> My understanding is that in ‘Max for Live’ Midi/Audio in/out is
> limited to Live, but will I be able to use the module I have to talk
> to my USB-DMX cable inside a ‘Max 4 Live’ patch and receive midi
> notes from Live then send them out to my DMX cable.

Live can also store automation which is just abstract values in time.
So you’ll be able to make a device that use your third party USB->DMX
objects and uses live incarnation objects to take advantage of the
Live automation for instance.

Quote: meloday wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 19:28
—————————————————-
> may someone be so kind as to explain the advantages of Max for Live over designing pluggo’s/vst’s and using them in Live?
>
> thanks!
—————————————————-

cool, thanks. tbh, i think i’d rather design my own Live inspired pluggos, test them in Live, then perform them in Live.

it could be kinda scary (not as stable) to patch in real-time…

Quote: RabidRaja wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 20:08
—————————————————-
> the main thing is the ease of development flow. without interruption of the music you can edit and change/swap-out devices in realtime. with pluggo you would build in Max then test in the host app.
>
> check this article for how this was part of Robert and David’s motivation to integrate:
> http://www.cycling74.com/story/2009/1/15/112631/799
>
>
> Quote: meloday wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 19:28
> —————————————————-
> > may someone be so kind as to explain the advantages of Max for Live over designing pluggo’s/vst’s and using them in Live?
> >
> > thanks!
> —————————————————-
>
>
—————————————————-

This was just too good not to pass on… I just discovered (many thanks
to Matthias Schneider-Hollek for tipping me off) that JazzMutant is
offering a special (now through March 15) where they’re selling brand
new Lemurs (with the new version 2 firmware) at their web store for 1819
Euro/USD, shipping included! Yes, you read it right… US purchasers
can get a Lemur for $1819, over $1100 less than the normal list price
and they throw in the shipping for nothing!

>cool, thanks. tbh, i think i’d rather design my own Live inspired >pluggos, test them in Live, then perform them in Live.

>it could be kinda scary (not as stable) to patch in real-time…

Given that we have a combined Ableton/C74 engineering effort on this, as opposed to the whims of 3rd party plug-in SDKs, you can be fairly confident that the performance of M4L will be much more stable than a pluggo plug. Very significant improvements, especially concerning timing, have already been made.

The up close and personal access to Live via the API is something plugins are not capable of doing as well.

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:06
—————————————————-
> Pricing info hasn’t been released, but as has been written elsewhere in this thread, if you own both Max 5 and Live 8, the price of the Max for Live addon will be very reasonable.

Dear Jeremy,
I am normally a quiet reader of this forum, but a user of Max/Msp/Jitter AND Live from the first days of these programs on. Today it was time to join the forum.

I just would like to say thank you and congratulations! This is a big step for me and I got really exited about it, when I read this yesterday. Both programs will benefit from this colaboration, I am very sure about that !

I must say I’m kind of awestruck with these new prices! With time the
Lemur has become a logical extension of MaxMSP/Jitter for me, and that
pricing…phew.

Jonathan F. Hallstrom skrev:
> This was just too good not to pass on… I just discovered (many
> thanks to Matthias Schneider-Hollek for tipping me off) that
> JazzMutant is offering a special (now through March 15) where they’re
> selling brand new Lemurs (with the new version 2 firmware) at their
> web store for 1819 Euro/USD, shipping included! Yes, you read it
> right… US purchasers can get a Lemur for $1819, over $1100 less than
> the normal list price and they throw in the shipping for nothing!
>
> … hmmm… I sort of sound like an advertisement, don’t I… sorry.

Speaking only for myself, I’m very excited about Max for Live and the
Akai product.

However, having purchased both the Albeton 7 Suite and Max/MSP/Jitter
in 2007,
I would like to know how much it’s going to cost me, if anything, for
Max for Live?

I will be upgrading my Ableton Suite 7 to 8.

I have applied for the beta testing for Max for Live.

I’m going to try to trade in some other equipment or sell some
hardware on eBay in order to get the Akai Product for Live Performance
(meaning on stage; MainStage :)

So I hope it’s not some big costly hassle to use have to purchase an
expensive Max for Live.

I would hope that Ableton and Cycling ’74 can work together to provide
Max for Live as a Free option when upgrading to Live 8 Suite, as I
have no need for "Latin Percussion" (one of the items included in the
Live Suite 8 upgrade).

Frankly, I wish they’d just provide the option of including Max for
Live as part of the Live 7 to 8 Suite upgrade and replace the Latin
Percussion.

I’ve just purchased Max/MSP/Jitter so I have other motivations for
wanting to go the Max for Live route rather than Pluggo (though I plan
to learn Pluggo in time).

>
> cool, thanks. tbh, i think i’d rather design my own Live inspired
> pluggos, test them in Live, then perform them in Live.
>
> it could be kinda scary (not as stable) to patch in real-time…
>
> Quote: RabidRaja wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 20:08
> —————————————————-
>> the main thing is the ease of development flow. without
>> interruption of the music you can edit and change/swap-out devices
>> in realtime. with pluggo you would build in Max then test in the
>> host app.
>>
>> check this article for how this was part of Robert and David’s
>> motivation to integrate:
>> http://www.cycling74.com/story/2009/1/15/112631/799
>>
>>
>> Quote: meloday wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 19:28
>> —————————————————-
>>> may someone be so kind as to explain the advantages of Max for
>>> Live over designing pluggo’s/vst’s and using them in Live?
>>>
>>> thanks!
>> —————————————————-
>>
>>
> —————————————————-
>
>

Well I don’t mind the post as I don’t know what a Lemur is or
JazzMutant.

I’ll do some searching but can you expound on how it can be used in
live performance (not the product but on stage).

-r

On Jan 16, 2009, at 11:55 PM, Jonathan F. Hallstrom wrote:

> This was just too good not to pass on… I just discovered (many
> thanks to Matthias Schneider-Hollek for tipping me off) that
> JazzMutant is offering a special (now through March 15) where
> they’re selling brand new Lemurs (with the new version 2 firmware)
> at their web store for 1819 Euro/USD, shipping included! Yes, you
> read it right… US purchasers can get a Lemur for $1819, over $1100
> less than the normal list price and they throw in the shipping for
> nothing!
>
> … hmmm… I sort of sound like an advertisement, don’t I… sorry.
>
>

If somebody has purchased Max/Msp/Jitter in 2007 and Ableton Suite 7
in 2007, will it be free, or cost a small fortune?

-r

On Jan 17, 2009, at 2:45 AM, Andrew Pask wrote:

>
>> cool, thanks. tbh, i think i’d rather design my own Live inspired
>> >pluggos, test them in Live, then perform them in Live.
>
>> it could be kinda scary (not as stable) to patch in real-time…
>
>
> Given that we have a combined Ableton/C74 engineering effort on
> this, as opposed to the whims of 3rd party plug-in SDKs, you can be
> fairly confident that the performance of M4L will be much more
> stable than a pluggo plug. Very significant improvements, especially
> concerning timing, have already been made.
>
> The up close and personal access to Live via the API is something
> plugins are not capable of doing as well.
>
> -A
>
>
>

If they want to partner in money, how about Offering a Special Akai/
Max-for-Live, for people who have Live 7 Suite Edu and upgrading to
Live 8 Edu, and Max/MSP/Jitter 5 full version.

On Jan 17, 2009, at 5:58 AM, David Molyneux wrote:

>
> Perhaps this will replace Max 5 standalone – why bother with it?
> Every Max owner if they don’t have Live should get it – they can
> afford it if you could buy Max.
>
> Perhaps Max owners who buy Live should get Max for Live for nothing
> – Ableton should give C74 some money for each sale!

Quote: strav100 wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 03:58
—————————————————-
> Perhaps this will replace Max 5 standalone – why bother with it? Every Max owner if they don’t have Live should get it – they can afford it if you could buy Max.
>
> Perhaps Max owners who buy Live should get Max for Live for nothing – Ableton should give C74 some money for each sale!
—————————————————-

No, I think Max standalone should always be an option. I have
been getting along just fine with out Live for years.
People should not have to pay $500 for Live (plus whatever M4L
costs) in order to use Max.

M4L does not allow you to develop your own externals (or share
them) so I don’t think I would ever give up Max standalone.

plus live is not necessarily the ideal environment for installation
work.

On Jan 17, 2009, at 10:51 AM, Anthony Palomba wrote:

>
> Quote: strav100 wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 03:58
> —————————————————-
>> Perhaps this will replace Max 5 standalone – why bother with it?
>> Every Max owner if they don’t have Live should get it – they can
>> afford it if you could buy Max.
>>
>> Perhaps Max owners who buy Live should get Max for Live for nothing
>> – Ableton should give C74 some money for each sale!
> —————————————————-
>
>
> No, I think Max standalone should always be an option. I have
> been getting along just fine with out Live for years.
> People should not have to pay $500 for Live (plus whatever M4L
> costs) in order to use Max.
>
> M4L does not allow you to develop your own externals (or share
> them) so I don’t think I would ever give up Max standalone.
>

Is it a correct price politics from Jazzmutant? US users get it much cheaper than european users, the street-price for new Lemur is in Germany 1900 Euro. So 100 Euro off isn’t big deal for me.. But nearly 40% off = 1380 Euro for it, that would be a deal !!!

P.S: can I pay in $$$ from europe ???

On Jan 16, 2009, at 11:55 PM, Jonathan F. Hallstrom wrote:

> This was just too good not to pass on… I just discovered (many
> thanks to Matthias Schneider-Hollek for tipping me off) that
> JazzMutant is offering a special (now through March 15) where
> they’re selling brand new Lemurs (with the new version 2 firmware)
> at their web store for 1819 Euro/USD, shipping included! Yes, you
> read it right… US purchasers can get a Lemur for $1819, over $1100
> less than the normal list price and they throw in the shipping for
> nothing!
>
> … hmmm… I sort of sound like an advertisement, don’t I… sorry.
>

I’m certain it’ll update on the european front as well – otherwise the
price difference could pay for a trip over there and back no sweat, hehe.

Andreas.

Roman Weingardt skrev:
> Is it a correct price politics from Jazzmutant? US users get it much cheaper than european users, the street-price for new Lemur is in Germany 1900 Euro. So 100 Euro off isn’t big deal for me.. But nearly 40% off = 1380 Euro for it, that would be a deal !!!
>
> P.S: can I pay in $$$ from europe ???
>
> .
>
>

Can we access parameters of Ableton’s devices with the API stuff?
For example, can I use my own LFO to modulate Sampler’s Pitch envelope Attack or the Track Volume? Like straight routing, without having to go thru a virtual MIDI driver and Live’s MIDI Learn?

Does MFL apply to the ‘Lite’ & Digidesign editions?
I’ve owned a Digi version for several years, but never really bothered to
look at it. The amount of excitement that this announcement has caused,
makes me think that perhaps it’s about time I did…
Cheers
Roger

Quote: pyrolator wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 10:43
—————————————————-
> Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:06
> —————————————————-
> > Pricing info hasn’t been released, but as has been written elsewhere in this thread, if you own both Max 5 and Live 8, the price of the Max for Live addon will be very reasonable.
>
> Dear Jeremy,
> I am normally a quiet reader of this forum, but a user of Max/Msp/Jitter AND Live from the first days of these programs on. Today it was time to join the forum.
>
> I just would like to say thank you and congratulations! This is a big step for me and I got really exited about it, when I read this yesterday. Both programs will benefit from this colaboration, I am very sure about that !
>
> best wishes
> Kurt Dahlke
—————————————————-

Automatable parameters are, unsuprisingly, limited to single numerical values. This means that, in the case of an object like matrixctrl, you’ll need to either separate the values you care about into individual parameters, or forget about using it for automation. Objects like matrixctrl, whose values are represented by lists, can still be publicized to Live as a kind of ‘blob’ parameter — the values will be saved in Live presets, and with the Set, but can’t be automated.

jb

Quote: theblackpeacock wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 01:32
—————————————————-
> i wonder how midi control of matrixcntrl will be managed?
—————————————————-

Quote: Bjorn Vayner wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 16:37
—————————————————-
> Can we access parameters of Ableton’s devices with the API stuff?
> For example, can I use my own LFO to modulate Sampler’s Pitch envelope Attack or the Track Volume? Like straight routing, without having to go thru a virtual MIDI driver and Live’s MIDI Learn?
—————————————————-

This is going to be possible, but it won’t be super-simple to set up, and will run in the GUI, rather than at audio-rate. This is just one of those limitations of the environment. Maybe we’ll find some nicer ways to deal with it in future versions.

Quote: roger.carruthers wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 18:23
—————————————————-
> Does MFL apply to the ‘Lite’ & Digidesign editions?
> I’ve owned a Digi version for several years, but never really bothered to
> look at it. The amount of excitement that this announcement has caused,
> makes me think that perhaps it’s about time I did…
> Cheers
> Roger
—————————————————-

Does this mean that M4L will not run on an Educational Version of
Ableton Suite 8?

Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
> M4L will only run in the full version of Live 8.
>
> jb
>
> Quote: roger.carruthers wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 18:23
> —————————————————-
>
>> Does MFL apply to the ‘Lite’ & Digidesign editions?
>> I’ve owned a Digi version for several years, but never really bothered to
>> look at it. The amount of excitement that this announcement has caused,
>> makes me think that perhaps it’s about time I did…
>> Cheers
>> Roger
>>
> —————————————————-
>
>
>
>

—
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Quote: robert wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 19:59
—————————————————-
> Does this mean that M4L will not run on an Educational Version of
> Ableton Suite 8?
>
> Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
> > M4L will only run in the full version of Live 8.
> >
> > jb
> >
—————————————————-

The educational version is the the full version, but with educational pricing. What do you think?

Well my Ableton account shows the current option to upgrade to 8 and I
will be doing that.

With money being so tight though, and wanting to spend more time on
New Music forms of development instead of Contracting for a living for
"Business" (which sucks), I’m a little concerned about the price of
M4L cost.

But it’s been said here that it will be reasonable; how reasonable for
a Max/MSP 5.0, Jitter, Pluggo, Mode, Hypno, Octirama and Upmix
customer; I purchased all these in about March of 2007 (full license).

I’ve been busy doing other research also which has slowed my learning
just a bit, but I have a vested interest in wanting C’74 to kick some
azz, and Live 8 I love.

I’m a bit pissed at Gibson though for charging so much for HD.6X.Pro
and now they come out with the DarkFire at lower cost and better
features, and the 5k+ HD.6X.Pro is a patented technology that is
supposed to be a long term investment, yet it came with the freakin’
lame SONAR 5 and I use a Mac, not a PC, let alone SONAR 6 had been out
for a while.

A lot of people are pissed at Gibson right now regarding their
handling of Dark Fire — I’ll stop there off-topic, but expense and
trust in the investment of vendor’s software is a big issue right now
regarding the economy (Thanks W for turning a national surplus into
the worst debt ever; compounding housing sit.). Yeah, politico a bit,
but this all works into the UpMix.

-r

On Jan 18, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:

>
> Quote: robert wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 19:59
> —————————————————-
>> Does this mean that M4L will not run on an Educational Version of
>> Ableton Suite 8?
>>
>> Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
>>> M4L will only run in the full version of Live 8.
>>>
>>> jb
>>>
> —————————————————-
>
> The educational version is the the full version, but with
> educational pricing. What do you think?
>
> jb
>

It’s already been touched on earlier, but I’m going to ask again with my own examples.

At the moment Live does not support NRPN’s, if Live handles the midi in/out in M4L will I be able to send NRPN’s constructed in Max/MSP out M4L’s midi out? I’ve been wanting to use Live’s GUI with Max via rewire but it "just doesn’t work"

How integrated is the programing? Ableton’s clip launch function is useful but not in depth enough, will I be able to weight the launch of clips in a more complex way eg. stochastic music.

And lastly, what can Max 5 do that M4L won’t – will it be watered down in any way, – missing objects?

Three questions:
1) Will it be possible to embed externals inside created live devices?
2) Will it be possible to lock live devices from editing, so as to be able to for example sell or distribute said device without the fear of it’s internal workings being exposed to the general public?
3) Will there be an educational discount on the max4live addon?

Quote: Veqtor wrote on Mon, 19 January 2009 04:39
—————————————————-
> Three questions:
> 1) Will it be possible to embed externals inside created live devices?
> 2) Will it be possible to lock live devices from editing, so as to be able to for example sell or distribute said device without the fear of it’s internal workings being exposed to the general public?
> 3) Will there be an educational discount on the max4live addon?
—————————————————-

I am particularly interested in knowing how 3rd party externals
will be handled or if there is a plan to handle them. I have
developed many of my own and I would definitely want to use
them in Max4Live. Is there any limitation there?

Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Mon, 19 January 2009 11:40
—————————————————-
> I am particularly interested in knowing how 3rd party externals
> will be handled or if there is a plan to handle them. I have
> developed many of my own and I would definitely want to use
> them in Max4Live. Is there any limitation there?
>
>
—————————————————-

From what has been said externals will be supported but the same issues with portability will exist if you want to distribute M4L devices.

I’m very curious to see how stable something like [fiddle~] will be inside Live.

However, I believe the following demo, shows why one might choose
Lemur (v2?) and it’s API capabilities, over the Akai Live controller.

However again, I have the MC Control and MC Mix (EuCon Protocol) from
Euphonix, and I’ve noticed a very distinct tactile difference in the
ability to use the Akai controller versus a touch-screen only.

So I’m still up in the air myself as to which to choose….Ultimately
both are good…it’s almost as if the more prevalent touch screen
controllers get, the more there will be a need for overlay
transparencies, that have "rough surfaces" and "smooth surfaces".

For a slider you obviously want a smooth surface (like a typical X-Y
pad which is even less slippery than most touchscreens), but there is
a specific need for the ability to place, sticky rough surfaces onto a
touch display surface; perhaps this can be done with static
electricity supplemented with some kind of polymer that is made for
the screen and once placed will not move but can will be slightly
raised, and thus provide a much better degree of performance as a
toggle button.

-r

On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:26 PM, Didier Malenfant wrote:

>
> [Robert]
>
> Check out this quick into video I did about my Lemur, it should give
> you and idea of what it can do. It’s used on stage by people like
> Daft Punk, Justice or Deadmau5 to name a few.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEjvb-yIRwY
>
> [C74]
>
> How will the ‘observer’ mode work (where you can interface with
> Live’s UI)?
>
> Will the Max Patch still sit inside a device in a track somewhere or
> will there be another place to insert/edit those?
>

> "Instead of thinking about what Max is going to do for Live, think about
> what Live is going to do for Max.

Thank you Guillaume for this input. This as absolutly true.
I think the audio engine in Live is very good and the new warping engine looks much more flexible, than to handle audio within the MaxMSP audio buffer.
I wonder if the new live.path, live.object and live.observer would also handle this aspects in live?
If so, it would be a huge step in handling audio in MaxMSP.

First of all, Jeremy, buddy, pal, THANK YOU! Wow… just wow. That goes for the rest of the C74 team. This really renews my faith in max. Cycling 74 continually reaffirms my view that Cycling 74 is the model technology company. Innovation and passion funding life and not the other way around. Thank you so much. It really gives me hope!

Questions:

1) Will the work you’ve done to ensure that audio runs uninterrupted in live be applied to max? What exactly is it?

2) How does max-for-live differ from max-as-plugin + live.objects ? Put a different way, does MaxForLive – live.objects + digi.objects = MaxForPT ? I know you’ve stated that pluggo is alive but this would be the most joyful end to pluggo I could think of.

> 1) Will the work you’ve done to ensure that audio runs uninterrupted
> in live be applied to max? What exactly is it?
>
> 2) How does max-for-live differ from max-as-plugin + live.objects ?
> Put a different way, does MaxForLive – live.objects + digi.objects
> = MaxForPT ?

live.* objects for instance can be controlled by MIDI using the MIDI
assignment feature of Live. They also get the colors from the Live
environment so you’re M4L devices behave exactly the same way of the
standard Live’s one. There’s an Audio + Automation realtime pipe
between Live and Max… Those are the kind of things that you can only
get if you have a great partnership.

Quote: Venetian wrote on Wed, 21 January 2009 14:25
—————————————————-
>
> To clarify:
> Externals from third party , e.g. fiddle, one’s own C and Java externals, are going to run fine since Live is communicating with Max 5 on the machine?
>
> I think Jeremy said as much, but I just wanted to make sure. Also, this looks an excellent extension of both programs – well done to all involved.
>
> Andrew
—————————————————-

I’m not sure if I should reward this "I-know-you-wrote-it-but-I-want-to-read-you-writing-it-again" behavior with anything but a meta-answer.

For what it’s worth, I feel exactly the same about the Philosophy of
C74. They are unique. I’ve followed the developments of the company
for years but only had the money to get all the products in 2007.

One of my questions is about Aggregation, and a still as yet
unanswered question about a Comprehensive Tutorial, like those
available for many other products.

About Aggregation, what is the most common way to take a Visually
Programmed Patch and bundle it up for use within another patch, a
Black-Box of sorts.

-r

On Jan 21, 2009, at 2:36 AM, Matthew Aidekman wrote:

>
> First of all, Jeremy, buddy, pal, THANK YOU! Wow… just wow.
> That goes for the rest of the C74 team. This really renews my
> faith in max. Cycling 74 continually reaffirms my view that Cycling
> 74 is the model technology company. Innovation and passion funding
> life and not the other way around. Thank you so much. It really
> gives me hope!
>
> Questions:
>
> 1) Will the work you’ve done to ensure that audio runs uninterrupted
> in live be applied to max? What exactly is it?
>
> 2) How does max-for-live differ from max-as-plugin + live.objects ?
> Put a different way, does MaxForLive – live.objects + digi.objects
> = MaxForPT ? I know you’ve stated that pluggo is alive but this
> would be the most joyful end to pluggo I could think of.
>
>

Robert Thompson skrev:
> One of my questions is about Aggregation, and a still as yet
> unanswered question about a Comprehensive Tutorial, like those
> available for many other products.
Eh? There’s got to be like a hundred tutorials that come with MaxMSP?
>
> About Aggregation, what is the most common way to take a Visually
> Programmed Patch and bundle it up for use within another patch, a
> Black-Box of sorts.
Make an abstraction. That process is also explained in the
aforementioned tutorials.
Andreas.

No need for the "Eh?" — this is a nice and peaceful list and I’m a
newcomer, please refrain from slights of insult like that.

-r

On Jan 21, 2009, at 11:37 AM, Andreas Wetterberg wrote:

> Robert Thompson skrev:
>> One of my questions is about Aggregation, and a still as yet
>> unanswered question about a Comprehensive Tutorial, like those
>> available for many other products.
> Eh? There’s got to be like a hundred tutorials that come with MaxMSP?
>>
>> About Aggregation, what is the most common way to take a Visually
>> Programmed Patch and bundle it up for use within another patch, a
>> Black-Box of sorts.
> Make an abstraction. That process is also explained in the
> aforementioned tutorials.
> Andreas.
>
>

Ah, you didn’t say. Makes sense, and it’s been discussed before – but
it’s going to take days of video, not hours. A herculean task, no doubt.
>
> No need for the "Eh?" — this is a nice and peaceful list and I’m a
> newcomer, please refrain from slights of insult like that.
"Eh" isn’t an insult or a slight of anything. LMGTFY:
–
"an interrogative utterance, usually expressing surprise or doubt or
seeking confirmation"
–

Did you get the abstractions to work?

Andreas
>
> -r
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2009, at 11:37 AM, Andreas Wetterberg wrote:
>
>> Robert Thompson skrev:
>>> One of my questions is about Aggregation, and a still as yet
>>> unanswered question about a Comprehensive Tutorial, like those
>>> available for many other products.
>> Eh? There’s got to be like a hundred tutorials that come with MaxMSP?
>>>
>>> About Aggregation, what is the most common way to take a Visually
>>> Programmed Patch and bundle it up for use within another patch, a
>>> Black-Box of sorts.
>> Make an abstraction. That process is also explained in the
>> aforementioned tutorials.
>> Andreas.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> .
>

Hi Matthew,
> 2) How does max-for-live differ from max-as-plugin + live.objects
> ? Put a different way, does MaxForLive – live.objects +
> digi.objects = MaxForPT ? I know you’ve stated that pluggo is
> alive but this would be the most joyful end to pluggo I could
> think of.

Allow me to present the "Edit" button…
The equation you present doesn’t fully take into account the intertwined and thorough integration that Max for Live represents. For example:

–Blank Max devices (Instrument,Audio,Midi effects) can be dropped into a device channel from the standard list of devices, and then edited at will.

–All of the ITM objects in your patch will automatically use the Live transport as their master, even while your patch is in editing mode.

–Because we are working collaboratively with Ableton, we are able to optimize things like event timing to be way more accurate and efficient than Pluggo has ever been.

–Since this is a long-term partnership, M4L isn’t going to be vulnerable to unexpected changes in technology, like VST or RTAS specs often do at the whim of those in control.

You will most likely be surprised at how the integration of Max into the Live context will change the way you approach patch writing, since it is easy to click the edit button and tweak things as you go. Also, given that the live.* objects are immediately visible to the Live mapping/automation engine, designing UI’s will be really easy. No mucking about with "pp" objects or plugconfig files. Via the live.param~ object, you will be able to get sample-accurate automation curve data in your patch as well.

>
> Hi Matthew,
>> 2) How does max-for-live differ from max-as-plugin + live.objects
>> ? Put a different way, does MaxForLive – live.objects +
>> digi.objects = MaxForPT ? I know you’ve stated that pluggo is
>> alive but this would be the most joyful end to pluggo I could
>> think of.
>
> Allow me to present the "Edit" button…
> The equation you present doesn’t fully take into account the
> intertwined and thorough integration that Max for Live represents.
> For example:
>
> –Blank Max devices (Instrument,Audio,Midi effects) can be dropped
> into a device channel from the standard list of devices, and then
> edited at will.
>
> –All of the ITM objects in your patch will automatically use the
> Live transport as their master, even while your patch is in editing
> mode.
>
> –Because we are working collaboratively with Ableton, we are able
> to optimize things like event timing to be way more accurate and
> efficient than Pluggo has ever been.
>
> –Since this is a long-term partnership, M4L isn’t going to be
> vulnerable to unexpected changes in technology, like VST or RTAS
> specs often do at the whim of those in control.
>
> You will most likely be surprised at how the integration of Max
> into the Live context will change the way you approach patch
> writing, since it is easy to click the edit button and tweak things
> as you go. Also, given that the live.* objects are immediately
> visible to the Live mapping/automation engine, designing UI’s will
> be really easy. No mucking about with "pp" objects or plugconfig
> files. Via the live.param~ object, you will be able to get sample-
> accurate automation curve data in your patch as well.
>
> I hope this clears things up a little.
>
> Andrew B.
> —
>
>

> About Aggregation, what is the most common way to take a Visually
> Programmed Patch and bundle it up for use within another patch, a
> Black-Box of sorts.

If you’re referring to the ability to create and reuse bits of what you patch, then I would suggest you have a look at Tutorials 14 (Encapsulation) and 15 (Abstractions).

If you mean you want to create a patch that includes UI objects for its interface which you can then reuse, that’s called a bpatcher, and a little quality time with Interface tutorial 1 should sort you out.

now THAT excites me. obviously the plug in world has repeatedly pissed you guys off. And while it’s a bit saddening that something more generic can’t be worked out for the sake of spreading the max seed far and wide, dedicated relationship obviously has it’s pros. When ever that grace period starts, you know I’ll be buying myself a copy of live.

I’d like maxfor a lot of things. I cant think of a single thing in my life that wouldn’t be improved by an edit button.