Mystery no more - Gaither is history

To be fair, McNeil and Dielman retired due to injuries in the middle of the same season, most teams don't just recover from that. And it didn't help that Norv refused to change his game plan in the slightest to accommodate the missing players, including but not limited to Vincent Jackson. Gaither must have looked like a god send after 2012, but human inability to read other people's minds as well as predict the future being what it is....

#CaptainHindsight

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Simple fact....... AJ's highest pick spent on the O-line during his time as GM was a 2nd rounder on Marcus McNeill, a player who was know to have spinal stenosis before he was drafted. AJ rolled the dice and lost.

Most teams, when they are trying to build a contender, start with using their top picks on the line, and build outward. AJ, on the other hand, decided to waste a bunch of picks on secondary players that didn't pan out. Poor personnel decisions and poor drafting led to a compromised roster.

Looking at last years draft, Every linemen taken in the first four rounds played at some point during the season, except for one (due to injury) and all played somewhat descent (didn't end up hurting their team)

Simple fact....... AJ's highest pick spent on the O-line during his time as GM was a 2nd rounder on Marcus McNeill, a player who was know to have spinal stenosis before he was drafted. AJ rolled the dice and lost.

Most teams, when they are trying to build a contender, start with using their top picks on the line, and build outward. AJ, on the other hand, decided to waste a bunch of picks on secondary players that didn't pan out. Poor personnel decisions and poor drafting led to a compromised roster.

#CaptainOblivous

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And a simple fact for you...our O-line was top 10 in pass protection 5 of the 9 years in AJ's tenure. WOW isn't that amazing? That the only time our O-line was ranked worse than 19th was the year after we lost McNeil and Dielman despite AJ "The Devil" Smith's horrible draft strategy as outlined by his honor Blue Bolt?

The fact is our O-line had never been "bad" by definition until just last year, both in the passing and running games its been either great or middle of the road, but never BAD. When AJ rolled the dice on Gaither he was banking on a supremely talented veteran being ready to hit the ground running over an alternative like Riley Reiff, while also being able to spend our first 3 draft picks improving what was a HORRENDOUS 2011 defense (A draft which may end up being his best)

You see thats you're problem Blue, if it doesn't fit the puzzle some guy on NFL Network planted in your head...it's thrown away. Not every great team has 5 first round picks along their offensive line.
#HeadUpJamieDukesAss

Forseeing you're predictable attempt to put words in my mouth and claim that I am averting all blame to Norv while pardoning AJ.... I will say ahead of time that I believe AJ deserved to get fired, but not for the reasons you're wasting our time with.

And a simple fact for you...our O-line was top 10 in pass protection 5 of the 9 years in AJ's tenure. WOW isn't that amazing? That the only time our O-line was ranked worse than 19th was the year after we lost McNeil and Dielman despite AJ "The Devil" Smith's horrible draft strategy as outlined by his honor Blue Bolt?

The fact is our O-line had never been "bad" by definition until just last year, both in the passing and running games its been either great or middle of the road, but never BAD. When AJ rolled the dice on Gaither he was banking on a supremely talented veteran being ready to hit the ground running over an alternative like Riley Reiff, while also being able to spend our first 3 draft picks improving what was a HORRENDOUS 2011 defense (A draft which may end up being his best)

You see thats you're problem Blue, if it doesn't fit the puzzle some guy on NFL Network planted in your head...it's thrown away. Not every great team has 5 first round picks along their offensive line.
#HeadUpJamieDukesAss

Forseeing you're predictable attempt to put words in my mouth and claim that I am averting all blame to Norv while pardoning AJ.... I will say ahead of time that I believe AJ deserved to get fired, but not for the reasons you're wasting our time with.

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I can see why you're so drawn to AJ Smith..... you're both convinced of your own genius, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Once again, you accuse me of "putting words in your mouth", while you claim I get my football opinions from watching Jamie Dukes on the NFL Network.

The amount of stupidity that comes out of your keyboard knows no bounds,. Matty, you are truly "special."

AJ Smith was lucky in many ways, especially earlier in his tenure. There was only one team and GM willing to give up those picks to land a "family name" QB..... one, Eli Manning. That was a gift, and AJ got three good players for the price of one. But, as was often the case, his luck soon ran out. Two of the players he took with those extra picks were two edged swords. Merriman had a great start, but after 3 years, he was essentially done as a player. Kaeding was a very accurate (if weak legged) regular season kicker, but he was instrumental in our playoff losses as well.

AJ was lucky to have two UDFA's develop into All Pro players. One, Antonio Gates, became one of the best TE's to play the position, and the other, Kris Dielman, became our best lineman. The trouble is, AJ's drafts were no where near as successful. His 1st round picks, in particular, were atrocious in recent years. But, we were talking O-line, so I'll stick to that for now.

How AJ built this wonderful O-line (that you gushed about) through his admitted preference.... building through the draft:

Hmmm, "not every great team has 5 first round picks along their offensive line"...... eh? Yeah, I wouldn't say that was AJ's plan, not even close. How 'bout ONE 1st round pick on the O-line? That would be a nice change, wouldn't it.

Face it, despite your sudden change of heart about the quality of our O-line, we've been just getting by with a bunch of average players for a long time. Winning franchises put talent into their lines, because most games are won or lost in the trenches. If you control the line of scrimmage, you can control the game.

Sure, you can say that AJ Smith couldn't have known that Dielman and McNeill would be forced to retire at the same time...... I'll grant you that. But, players with degenerative conditions don't get healthier by playing in the NFL. AJ gambled when you drafted a left tackle with spinal stenosis, and he lost. Are you suggesting that AJ had no other option but to draft a player with a spinal condition? I doubt you're saying that.

AJ Smith made many poor personnel decisions, both in how he graded players, how he treated players, and who he ultimately drafted. One thing we do agree on...... AJ Smith deserved to get fired.

I can see why you're so drawn to AJ Smith..... you're both convinced of your own genius, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Once again, you accuse me of "putting words in your mouth", while you claim I get my football opinions from watching Jamie Dukes on the NFL Network.

The amount of stupidity that comes out of your keyboard knows no bounds,. Matty, you are truly "special."

AJ Smith was lucky in many ways, especially earlier in his tenure. There was only one team and GM willing to give up those picks to land a "family name" QB..... one, Eli Manning. That was a gift, and AJ got three good players for the price of one. But, as was often the case, his luck soon ran out. Two of the players he took with those extra picks were two edged swords. Merriman had a great start, but after 3 years, he was essentially done as a player. Kaeding was a very accurate (if weak legged) regular season kicker, but he was instrumental in our playoff losses as well.

AJ was lucky to have two UDFA's develop into All Pro players. One, Antonio Gates, became one of the best TE's to play the position, and the other, Kris Dielman, became our best lineman. The trouble is, AJ's drafts were no where near as successful. His 1st round picks, in particular, were atrocious in recent years. But, we were talking O-line, so I'll stick to that for now.

How AJ built this wonderful O-line (that you gushed about) through his admitted preference.... building through the draft:

Hmmm, "not every great team has 5 first round picks along their offensive line"...... eh? Yeah, I wouldn't say that was AJ's plan, not even close. How 'bout ONE 1st round pick on the O-line? That would be a nice change, wouldn't it.

Face it, despite your sudden change of heart about the quality of our O-line, we've been just getting by with a bunch of average players for a long time. Winning franchises put talent into their lines, because most games are won or lost in the trenches. If you control the line of scrimmage, you can control the game.

Sure, you can say that AJ Smith couldn't have known that Dielman and McNeill would be forced to retire at the same time...... I'll grant you that. But, players with degenerative conditions don't get healthier by playing in the NFL. AJ gambled when you drafted a left tackle with spinal stenosis, and he lost. Are you suggesting that AJ had no other option but to draft a player with a spinal condition? I doubt you're saying that.

AJ Smith made many poor personnel decisions, both in how he graded players, how he treated players, and who he ultimately drafted. One thing we do agree on...... AJ Smith deserved to get fired.

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And yet the fact remains.....TOP TEN 5 TIMES IN HIS FIRST 8 YEARS WITHOUT A SINGLE 1ST ROUND PICK ON THE OFFENSIVE LINE!!!! I get what you're trying ten thousand ways to say, but the fact is you are WRONG as usual. You don't need to go through every pick for me, you're bullshit argument is voided by cold hard emotionless statistics.

You seem to have this insane theory in your head that the Chargers didn't have bigger needs each offseason than a backup for a 28 year old left tackle who just signed a $50M contract. Or that we had an endless supply of draft picks and resources to supply an A level talent to all backup positions. And this is the same delusional problem you have with free agency, you seem to think there is a 26 year old elite player with a perfect injury history and no character flags just foaming at the mouth to take a mediocre contract from us.

I'm saying this as a fellow Charger fan, Blue you have no fu*king clue what you're talking about 90% of the time. You sound like a 12 year old fan boy with a pie in the sky ideology about how every team should be built. Do yourself a favor, and go look at who's been blocking for Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning (pre Broncos), and Drew Brees the last few years...I'll wait.

Again, you keep underplaying the fact that the WHOLE REASON we HAD to sign Gaither at the time, was because AJ did a job of building the O-line, and left us with no other option.

Gaither and his agent were holding all the cards, so the Chargers had to bend over a take is in the ***. If that's you're idea of a GM doing his job, then I can't help you.

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You keep acting like nobody else would have paid Gaither if we didn't. Yes, we needed an o-lineman. But again, I don't believe the Chargers were the only team in the NFL that needed an o-lineman. All teams need players at various spots every year. I'm not saying A.J. didn't neglect the o-line, I'm just saying that the revisionist history is strong. If you aren't getting that, I can't help you.

You keep acting like nobody else would have paid Gaither if we didn't. Yes, we needed an o-lineman. But again, I don't believe the Chargers were the only team in the NFL that needed an o-lineman. All teams need players at various spots every year. I'm not saying A.J. didn't neglect the o-line, I'm just saying that the revisionist history is strong. If you aren't getting that, I can't help you.

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It's revisionist history, to act like the fact that we had no other choice but to sign Gaither wasn't due to AJ's neglecting the O-line....... we had no depth.

And yet the fact remains.....TOP TEN 5 TIMES IN HIS FIRST 8 YEARS WITHOUT A SINGLE 1ST ROUND PICK ON THE OFFENSIVE LINE!!!! I get what you're trying ten thousand ways to say, but the fact is you are WRONG as usual. You don't need to go through every pick for me, you're bullshit argument is voided by cold hard emotionless statistics.

You seem to have this insane theory in your head that the Chargers didn't have bigger needs each offseason than a backup for a 28 year old left tackle who just signed a $50M contract. Or that we had an endless supply of draft picks and resources to supply an A level talent to all backup positions. And this is the same delusional problem you have with free agency, you seem to think there is a 26 year old elite player with a perfect injury history and no character flags just foaming at the mouth to take a mediocre contract from us.

I'm saying this as a fellow Charger fan, Blue you have no fu*king clue what you're talking about 90% of the time. You sound like a 12 year old fan boy with a pie in the sky ideology about how every team should be built. Do yourself a favor, and go look at who's been blocking for Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning (pre Broncos), and Drew Brees the last few years...I'll wait.

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LOL...... "Cold hard emotionless statistics"

Gee, I remember a year when we had the #1 ranked defense in the NFL. Anyone who watched that team and thought that stat told the whole story was smoking something. Stats are nice, but they can be misleading at times.

As a "Chargers fan", you are rude, boorish, and ill-informed. You are also childish, tiresome, and a drama queen.

The funny thing, is that you've been complaining for years about the O-line, and how bad Clary is. Now, you're pulling out stats to convince me that we actually had a really good O-line all these years. McNeill's condition wasn't an all of a sudden calamity like Dielman's, AJ did nothing to draft real quality depth behind either tackle position. We knew McNeill's condition was degenerative when he was drafted, he then missed time and had multiple surgeries. The writing was on the wall that McNeill couldn't be counted on for the long haul. It was also clear that Clary was slow footed and not really the longterm answer at RT.

So, armed with this knowledge, what did AJ Smith do to address these serious concerns at the tackle positions? In 2008, he spent a 7th round pick on Corey Clark.

Damn, that AJ is one serious ******* genius when it comes to building a roster. Lets not forget all those other genius he moves he made, like trading up in the 2nd round of the 2008 draft to get a "high character"/low ceiling player like Jacob Hester. Because, what this team really needed was a RB/FB, not some quality tackle depth.

His list of wasted 1st round picks is impressive for any GM, much less one of AJ's particular genius. There are 11 positions on the offensive side of the ball, 5 of which are comprised of the offensive line. In 10 years worth of drafts, AJ Smith spent exactly ZERO 1st round picks on the O-line. We only used a 2nd rounder once, and that was on Marcus "damaged goods" McNeill.

The sorry state of the O-line today is completely attributable to AJ Smith and his terrible decisions. The downfall of this team, was not just because of the loss of some key O-line starters, but because we have no quality depth behind them. Injuries are a part of the NFL...... good teams prepare themselves for that eventuality. AJ Smith left us sadly unprepared.

I think everyone in this room was all for signing Gaither, but you'd think if anything given his history Aj would have made his main priority being to find a solid back up to protect his back side. Leaving that duty to an UDFA (who probably wouldn't have made the team) and a healthier untalented "Big Lazy" in Mario Henderson is no way to go about doing it. One of the first things that Telesco did was find that above adequate back up in King Dunlap, Even if he never see's the field in his time with the Chargers, I believe we all feel better knowing we have someone who can play. He may even take over for Clary

Now given last years theme being defense in the draft, would anyone have objected the pick of a Donald Stephenson, Lamar Holmes, Bobby Massie over say Ladarius Green or Brandon Taylor (keep in mind I love those picks) If it meant we had a viable back up or potential starter?

If "Ifs" and "But's" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas, the past is the past no sense in dwelling in it now, We're arguing back and fourth on two individuals that we never have to or should talk about again. Can't we all just get along

I think everyone in this room was all for signing Gaither, but you'd think if anything given his history Aj would have made his main priority being to find a solid back up to protect his back side. Leaving that duty to an UDFA (who probably wouldn't have made the team) and a healthier untalented "Big Lazy" in Mario Henderson is no way to go about doing it. One of the first things that Telesco did was find that above adequate back up in King Dunlap, Even if he never see's the field in his time with the Chargers, I believe we all feel better knowing we have someone who can play. He may even take over for Clary

Now given last years theme being defense in the draft, would anyone have objected the pick of a Donald Stephenson, Lamar Holmes, Bobby Massie over say Ladarius Green or Brandon Taylor (keep in mind I love those picks) If it meant we had a viable back up or potential starter?

If "Ifs" and "But's" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas, the past is the past no sense in dwelling in it now, We're arguing back and fourth on two individuals that we never have to or should talk about again. Can't we all just get along

No doubt about it, I think almost every opinion you voice is fu*king stupid. You live in a fantasy world where the Chargers have 15 picks in every draft and every veteran player should want to take a discount to come to beautiful San Diego.

"Waaah why didn't we have a 1st round pick backing up Marcus McNeil?" (never mind we need guys who we actually know will play)
"Waaah why didn't we draft a guard in the 1st round 3 years ago" (when Kris Dielman was a Pro Bowler)
"Waaah we can't sign ____ he's injury prone" (pro bowler 4 of 5 years)
"Waaah you can't cite statistics to prove your point, stats lie!" (Signed, the guy who argued for Norv's 62% W/L record until his face turned blue)
"Waaah I can have a hard on for Norv, but you can't defend AJ Smith!"
"Waaah.....you don't think I'm funny?! Didn't you see my face?"

Sorry Blue, but I'd respect your opinion more if you used a little more common sense, and actually admitted when you were wrong once in a while.

And - frankly I don't care I'm putting this out there because it will make you all appreciate the triviality of the pissing contest that was going on - I'm going to go ahead and do it.

Go to Netflix, watch "Birdemic: Shock and Terror," then please refrain from wanting to kill me for having you watch such a HORRIBLE movie - however, it will give you perspective on all this interwebs-screaming being nothing to get yourselves all worked up over (horrible movies where birds do the impossible and HOVER... and a guy with an assault rifle can miss a bird point blank when it flies two feet in front of his face... now that's another story).

Sure there is CBF .................... last time I was there (2011) it occasionally showed up on TV at ESPN2 at about midnight (PST) or later......... or for certain its shown on ESPN3 over the Net if you have the right Internet service provider.

Check out these "grabs" (called "Speccy's" here) from the same game today.

No doubt about it, I think almost every opinion you voice is fu*king stupid. You live in a fantasy world where the Chargers have 15 picks in every draft and every veteran player should want to take a discount to come to beautiful San Diego.

"Waaah why didn't we have a 1st round pick backing up Marcus McNeil?" (never mind we need guys who we actually know will play)
"Waaah why didn't we draft a guard in the 1st round 3 years ago" (when Kris Dielman was a Pro Bowler)
"Waaah we can't sign ____ he's injury prone" (pro bowler 4 of 5 years)
"Waaah you can't cite statistics to prove your point, stats lie!" (Signed, the guy who argued for Norv's 62% W/L record until his face turned blue)
"Waaah I can have a hard on for Norv, but you can't defend AJ Smith!"
"Waaah.....you don't think I'm funny?! Didn't you see my face?"

Sorry Blue, but I'd respect your opinion more if you used a little more common sense, and actually admitted when you were wrong once in a while.

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Some excellent comic relief going on here I must say, my word, you boys sure do take this Chargers stuff seriously, don't you ! ................. I do admire your straight-forwardness and direct approach regardless of whether I agree or not with your opinion, very funny shite.

Now, as far as getting BLEW to admit being wrong once in a while, good luck with that one, I expect to see that happen about the same time you'd admit the same !!!! (its not to late to change your mind in regards to Ryno either Matty, hint, hint )

@ blue bolt and Matty... are you sure you two aren't married? You argue like two professionals.

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Arent they cute .................. would be a damn sight more boring Offseason without them though.....................there's only so many LiLo stories I can laugh at before it starts to become tedious.

And - frankly I don't care I'm putting this out there because it will make you all appreciate the triviality of the pissing contest that was going on - I'm going to go ahead and do it.

Go to Netflix, watch "Birdemic: Shock and Terror," then please refrain from wanting to kill me for having you watch such a HORRIBLE movie - however, it will give you perspective on all this interwebs-screaming being nothing to get yourselves all worked up over (horrible movies where birds do the impossible and HOVER... and a guy with an assault rifle can miss a bird point blank when it flies two feet in front of his face... now that's another story).

Some excellent comic relief going on here I must say, my word, you boys sure do take this Chargers stuff seriously, don't you ! ................. I do admire your straight-forwardness and direct approach regardless of whether I agree or not with your opinion, very funny shite.

Now, as far as getting BLEW to admit being wrong once in a while, good luck with that one, I expect to see that happen about the same time you'd admit the same !!!! (its not to late to change your mind in regards to Ryno either Matty, hint, hint )

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I've been considering that, I think I'm going to give it one more season before I'm willing to bite that bullet. Firing Norv will help, as well as going to a more zone blocking scheme, as well as improving the offensive line.....but I will admit the injuries are jarring.