From the ATF response, I noticed something that appears to be clearly defined yet I'm sure has another clause to prohibit it.

They define the term "engaged in business" as the distribution of firearms with the return of profit or means of livelihood or business. So if someone manufactures and gives away firearms, as long as the recipient is qualified to own them, they may do so at any volume they prefer. Am I reading that correct? There is no profit, no trade, no business, no return, and the recipients are legally allowed to own firearms. So this according to them is legal, correct?

An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
-- Robert A. Heinlein, "Beyond This Horizon", 1942

warjunky1428 wrote:From the ATF response, I noticed something that appears to be clearly defined yet I'm sure has another clause to prohibit it.

They define the term "engaged in business" as the distribution of firearms with the return of profit or means of livelihood or business. So if someone manufactures and gives away firearms, as long as the recipient is qualified to own them, they may do so at any volume they prefer. Am I reading that correct? There is no profit, no trade, no business, no return, and the recipients are legally allowed to own firearms. So this according to them is legal, correct?

As long as there is absolutely zero compensation for the item then you can "give it away". This also means YOU must provide 100% of the materials and simply walk away from it.....

If THEY provide the materials then you are providing a service, regardless if you are being compensates....providing a service qualifies as "engaged in business".

You can't do it in unlimited volume either, you can give away your PERSONAL firearm, once you start making multiples and giving them away you are in business of making firearms.

If I understand correctly you can make a firearm for yourself and once you have no use for it you can legally sell it. Now if you make even just one and sell it immediately that's quite a bit different than making it for yourself then getting rid of it.

Volume and no ownership investment are the tipping points for trouble the way I understand it.

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warjunky1428 wrote:From the ATF response, I noticed something that appears to be clearly defined yet I'm sure has another clause to prohibit it.

They define the term "engaged in business" as the distribution of firearms with the return of profit or means of livelihood or business. So if someone manufactures and gives away firearms, as long as the recipient is qualified to own them, they may do so at any volume they prefer. Am I reading that correct? There is no profit, no trade, no business, no return, and the recipients are legally allowed to own firearms. So this according to them is legal, correct?

As long as there is absolutely zero compensation for the item then you can "give it away". This also means YOU must provide 100% of the materials and simply walk away from it.....

If THEY provide the materials then you are providing a service, regardless if you are being compensates....providing a service qualifies as "engaged in business".

You can't do it in unlimited volume either, you can give away your PERSONAL firearm, once you start making multiples and giving them away you are in business of making firearms.

Premise 1: The ATF thinks that if you provide a service (even without compensation), you're engaged in business.
Premise 2: My wife and I service each other without compensation.
Conclusion: The ATF thinks that we're sex workers. (Even if you and your wife don't have sex, the ATF considers you to be plumbers, carpenters, mechanics, etc.)