The smgs in this game are good guns and in any other call of duty they would be considered overpowered I myself have used all the smgs and they do a decent job close-mid range.

However the assault rifles compared to the smgs in this game are way too above them, they excel in every category from range to damage and in some case fire rate I shall name some of many points which I think renders using a smg pretty pointless.

Close/pointblank range a lot of assault rifles beat smgs hands down like the MSBS and Remington and the Ak-12 are just a few guns which stand out at completely owning at any range no matter what, the M-TAR and vector will rarely win against these guns at any range close or mid-range if they shoot at the same time.

The assault rifles most of them have little to no recoil for example the AK-12 with grip is a high damage gun with no recoil try it if you do not believe me and the Remington has pretty much little to no recoil to begin with but the smgs with their lower damage and lower range have higher recoil why is this? I have no idea.

This is a balancing issue because if the smgs are beaten at their own game (close quarters combat) by the assault rifles then why have them in the game? Do not get me wrong the smgs are good guns but the assault rifles are just ridiculously good.

Now I start with the shotguns and some of you will say hey wait the bulldog owns at close range and I shall give you guys that it does its job at close range however the other shotguns simply get beaten by yes you guessed it the assault rifles again here are some simple examples.

The MSBS in my opinion is the best shotgun in the game or wait I meant assault rifle/shotgun hybrid because it will beat any shotgun close range all of the time and that is outrageously unfair, we also have many other assault rifles which excel at close range compared to shotguns like the honey badger, the fad, the ARX-160 and this is completely bizarre.

Do not get me wrong I know a lot of the other smgs beat the shotguns too however that is their role and they do not own them as much as the assault rifles do.

My simple solution is that the shotguns need a buff in either range or a better hipfire spread or a better fire rate or better recoil or simply more damage to make them feasible on maps which are not strikezone and they still get beat there.

The smgs could have a damage boost or a range boost because they are just outclassed at their own job by assault rifles.

My third solution is simply nerf a lot of the assault rifles my nerfs would be decrease the damage/range on MSBS and increase recoil on guns like the Remington and the Ak-12 and some other nerfs to assault rifles too.

Before you guys mention you forgot the LMGs and the sniper rifles and the marksman rifles I shall say that I think those weapon classes excel at what they do and are perfectly balanced.

Thank you guys for reading and I hope for some other suggestions on what can be done, whether or not you agree or disagree with me and why you think that and if there is any other issues you guys think I have not pointed out thanks for reading now lets debate!

I have to disagree about AR's beating SMG's in close battles. AR's dominate this game because the majority of these maps just scream assault riffle. Big maps, Long lines of sight. Both of which makes it really tough to excel with SMG's. In past games it was still possible on bigger maps with long lines of sight because there were still good routes for a SMG player to take and do well.

Can't really do that in ghost because you are having to run marathons to find someone to kill. Shotguns are usless on all but maybe 2 maps. No buff will change the issue on most maps, too big, too far.

The maps can be a issue but the point I was making was on the damage at close range which the shotguns and smgs usually have nothing much special on the map issue they are poorly lain out and tremor and strikezone are very close quarters but the smgs are just not as good as the assault rifles close range, I do like the smgs and love the M-TAR and it has its strengths but when it comes in to contact with the MSBS or a honey badger or a Remington it stands little chance if you both shot at the same time.

There's a lot here I don't agree with so I'll sum it up with a general statement.

Damage on ARs is high, but not really all that much higher than other CoDs, instead it's the range that's a tad bit greater. Combined with some ARs having high damage and those same ARs having better range, they appear to be insanely strong. Fact is, though, if you get hit with 3 rounds you're dead. This is why the MSBS has such superior stats. It's designed to be a stronger gun at range than full-auto ARs and because the full-auto ARs are already strong the MSBS has to be superior to be relevant.

SMGs are good but you have to hit the opponent causing enough damage before they hit you with enough bullets to kill you. SMGs aren't more powerful up close, they just have faster handling speeds and RoF, not damage. So an AR can still kill you via effeciency.

I think knocking the range on a couple ARs would be good, but I will direct you to two threads I've created that display how ARs and MRs work. this might change your thoughts on them a bit as you'll see, on paper, they aren't all that Godly.

Thanks I would have to disagree with the AK-12 recoil and Remington recoil they are rather low and easy to control and that especially noticeable hen you attach grip to them I do understand the weapon stats and damage/range profiles but compared to smgs the assault rifles recoil is way lower in practice and my other point is more noticeable the shotguns spread is completely inconsistent close range compared to the assaults rifles high damage close range thanks for the post buddy.

The AKs recoil is evenly distributed between up/down and left/right movements. This means that by bursting you're cutting the recoil by 50% in each direction making the gun 4x easier to handle. The Remington has medium recoil but it's mostly up/down recoil which is dead simple to control. So I agree that it's manageable if you have the know how. I've always asked for recoil to be more random, but still it's pretty straight forward and easy to overcome.

Also, grip has always gotten a bad wrap the last few titles due to it's ineffectiveness. Prior games had two types of recoil. Physical movement and camera movement. Combined they created the recoil you experienced. The grip attachment only assisted the physical movement and it was only by 10% (I believe) so in reality that was only like 5% of the recoil.

I never thought the smgs were overpowered in black ops 2 buddy there was a more balanced gun range in that game I am just pointing out some fact that the assault rifles need a few weaknesses that is all