#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-22

Back[00:00:17]<tjb1> clearcoat
[00:00:28]<tjb1> Ill powder coat the whole table
[00:01:13]<tjb1> Now I have to build a car sized oven...
[00:01:41]<djdelorie> just bring it to Texas and leave it outside :-)
[00:02:42]<tjb1> Not a big fan of warm weather
[00:04:29]<djdelorie> Aluminum?
[00:04:35]<djdelorie> Steel?
[00:04:37]<tjb1> Both
[00:04:58]<djdelorie> Aluminum can be chemically etched with plain HCl
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[00:05:02]<JT-Shop> tjb1: you can use an infrared heater to do that if you don't bump it...
[00:05:10]<tjb1> Im not doing anything to the aluminum
[00:05:26]<djdelorie> how else are you going to get small signatures in there? ;-)
[00:05:28]<tjb1> JT-Shop: That would be sketchy with powdercoat
[00:05:41]<JT-Shop> it works I know
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[00:06:03]* djdelorie wonders if a heat gun would work[00:06:10]* JT-Shop has a powder coat setup[00:06:30]<JT-Shop> never tried that...
[00:06:51]<tjb1> How do you get correct cure times on it all?
[00:07:31]<JT-Shop> you gotta kinda swag it and watch and use a non contact thermometer thingy
[00:07:44]<tjb1> You would have to over cure certain area where sections overlap
[00:07:49]<JT-Shop> it will wait till you get done if you don't bump it
[00:08:05]<Tom_itx> sounds like a big pita
[00:08:10]<tjb1> I have tried mixing colors and I can tell you that it doesn't work
[00:08:12]<JT-Shop> that it correct
[00:08:27]<JT-Shop> chow time guys
[00:08:44]<tjb1> peace
[00:08:55]<tjb1> I mixed yellow and red powders
[00:09:00]<tjb1> and I got red with a bunch of yellow dots
[00:09:16]<djdelorie> yeah, it's a powder coat, not a liquid coat
[00:09:28]<tjb1> It turns to liquid
[00:09:33]<tjb1> sort of
[00:09:50]<djdelorie> but you can't *mix* it while it's liquid
[00:10:03]<Tom_itx> sorta like laserjet toner
[00:10:29]<Tom_itx> charge holds it on the piece then you melt it to cure it
[00:10:30]<tjb1> Shooting it while the part is hot is a good way to put too much on it
[00:12:17]<tjb1> This is probably my favorite powder that I have
[00:12:17]<tjb1>https://www.google.com/search?sugexp=chrome,mod%3D19&q=black+stardust&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=zNm6T7_WK4nTgQf5_M3jCg&biw=1680&bih=870&sei=ztm6T_SgINHggge9oqjDCg[00:18:23] -!- servos4ever has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [SeaMonkey 2.0.11/20101206162726]]
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[01:22:37]<Aero-Tec> Writing my first Gcode for EMC, I might just be falling in love
[01:22:56]<Aero-Tec> sure is nice
[01:23:15]<ReadError> writing it by hand?
[01:23:19]<joe9> any heekscnc users here? are you Z = 0, at the top? How do you get Heekscnc to generate gcode for that?
[01:23:45]<joe9> Aero-Tec: check out heekscnc and freecad. it is easier to write python than gcode.
[01:24:11]<Aero-Tec> yes, I hand code most every thing
[01:25:03]<Aero-Tec> I do have some cam software, but I just use it to gen some 3D code, sometimes, it is getting less and less
[01:26:56]<Aero-Tec> never did write in python
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[01:27:35]<Aero-Tec> when I did web programing it was php and perl
[01:28:02]<Aero-Tec> there was others but I did not get into them
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[01:28:30]<Aero-Tec> will have to check python out
[01:28:45]<Aero-Tec> hello sk
[01:28:52]<Aero-Tec> oops sw
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[01:31:11]<roycroft> it seems to me that having z = 0 at the bottom of the part would be easier to deal with, unless your part blanks are milled very precisely to height before mounting for cnc operations
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[01:34:57]<djdelorie> joe9: just give it negative Z numbers when it needs them
[01:43:36]<jdhNC> any suggestions for a reasonable feed rate & DOC for a .25 HSS 4 flute endmill and 6061?
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[01:46:44]<roycroft> feeds and speeds are pretty easy to calculate
[01:46:50]<roycroft> doc depends entirely on your mill
[01:46:59]<roycroft> you'll have to experiment to determine that
[01:47:29]<jdhNC> yeah, I was just looking for a conservative starting point.
[01:48:40]<roycroft> if it's a small mill i'd start with 0.020" doc for 6061 as a starting point
[01:49:01]<roycroft> if it's bridgeport-size 0.060" easily
[01:49:13]<djdelorie> in general, which is better - light cuts and higher IPS, or heavy cuts at low IPS ?
[01:49:18]<alex4nder-> it depends
[01:49:24]<alex4nder-> on the mill, and your removal strategy
[01:49:40]<alex4nder-> I remove 0.20 DoC on my taig.. but I'm removing a .004-wide chip when doing it
[01:49:47]<alex4nder-> because I do trochoidal milling
[01:50:24]<roycroft> it also depends on the type of cutter you're using
[01:50:26]<alex4nder-> if you just ram the endmill into 6061 with like .. > 90 radial engagement, you're going to put a lot of strain on your endmill
[01:50:26]<joe9> djdelorie: what do you mean by "just give it negative Z numbers when it needs them"? I am generating the gcode from heeks.
[01:50:37]<alex4nder-> and you're going to get deflection
[01:50:42]<alex4nder-> so you'll get squealing and pain
[01:50:45]<joe9> djdelorie: do you mean just give the z values as -ve in Heeks.
[01:50:50]<alex4nder-> (and stalling, and broken endmills, etc.)
[01:51:02]<djdelorie> right, in heeks when it asks for Z values, you give it -ve values for "height"
[01:51:17]<joe9> djdelorie: ok, thanks.
[01:52:10]<alex4nder-> you also don't want to produce chips that are too small.. because you'll destroy your endmills
[01:52:16]<alex4nder-> (overheating, etc)
[01:52:17]<joe9> djdelorie: have you used heeks? do you know if the "set coordinate system" can be used to put Z=0 at the top of the piece?
[01:52:42]<djdelorie> I don't think heeks has a Z per se; it's a 2.5-D system
[01:53:14]<djdelorie> so for each milling operation, you tell it "start at 0, work towards -0.45" or whatever
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[02:00:42]<joe9> ok, thanks. just to confirm, in such a scenario, the tool paths will be visible below the workpiece in the backplot, correct/
[02:00:47]<joe9> djdelorie: ^^
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[02:01:30]<djdelorie> correct. Always test first :-)
[02:01:58]<joe9> djdelorie: ok, thanks.
[02:02:40]<skunkworks__> it was hard for me to get used to top of part being 0 as the old control only used positive positions.
[02:02:40]<joe9> i love FreeCAD. it is so much cooler to be able to use python to generate stuff.
[02:02:44]<djdelorie>http://www.delorie.com/cnc/bldc-frame.heeks is a sample
[02:04:41]<joe9> djdelorie: thanks, that helped.
[02:07:49]<Aero-Tec> tried to run my code
[02:08:25]<Aero-Tec> it says one can not use G95 mode when spindle is not going
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[02:08:33]<Aero-Tec> but it was
[02:09:35]<djdelorie> the physical spindle was going, or the virtual spindle linuxcnc thought it was controlling was going?
[02:10:34]<Aero-Tec> it was running and the index is working
[02:10:47]<Aero-Tec> I had the lathe running
[02:11:26]<Aero-Tec> how to do you if it is in virtual mode?
[02:12:19]<djdelorie> well, for my cnc, the spindle is *not* controlled by linuxcnc, so just because it's running doesn't mean linuxcnc thinks it's running
[02:12:25]<skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: do yo have motion.spindle-speed-in IN FLOAT
[02:12:27]<skunkworks__> Actual spindle speed feedback in revolutions per second; used for G96 feed-per-revolution and constant surface speed modes
[02:12:29]<skunkworks__> hooked up?
[02:13:04]<joe9> djdelorie: do you notice this with heeks? it does not generate some toolpaths for "Operations". I have "Pocket" and "Profile" operation with the same tool. and it just does Profile now.
[02:13:14]<Aero-Tec> the encoder is hooked up and working
[02:13:16]<joe9> djdelorie: do you find heeks to be a bit unpredictable?
[02:13:17]<Aero-Tec> I checked it
[02:13:26]<joe9> djdelorie: or, is there a better way of using heeks?
[02:13:33]<djdelorie> you have to specify a start point
[02:13:39]<djdelorie> it won't pick one for you
[02:13:39]<joe9> from command prompt, directly or something like that.
[02:13:58]<djdelorie> right click on the operation in the left side pane, I think
[02:14:49]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks not sure what you mean by motion.spindle-speed-in IN FLOAT
[02:15:56]<skunkworks__> that was coppied and pasted from the hal manual. motion.spindle-speed-in is the pin (it is an 'in float')
[02:16:16]<joe9> djdelorie: start depth = 0, final depth = -0.1, step down = -0.03 -- sounds good to you?
[02:16:21]<joe9> djdelorie: for the pocketing operation.
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[02:16:39]<joe9> rapid safety space = 2, clearance height = 2
[02:17:02]<djdelorie> those are also Z so do you really need to be two inches above your workpiece?
[02:17:15]<Aero-Tec> SO i SHOULD SET THAT?
[02:17:19]<Aero-Tec> OOPS
[02:17:27]<Aero-Tec> was doing gcode
[02:17:43]<joe9> djdelorie: just to be sure at this point. still playing so do not want to run into clamps and stuff.
[02:17:50]<skunkworks__> you need to hook your spindle rev/sec signal to it.
[02:18:01]<Aero-Tec> do I need to set g96 and g97?
[02:18:12]<djdelorie> joe9: I start my "start depth" a little above the part (0.02) and final -0.1, with step 0.04 but mine is wood so deeper cuts
[02:18:36]<Aero-Tec> that would be explained in the manual I would guess
[02:18:37]<joe9> is step = 0.04 or -0.04 ?
[02:18:43]<djdelorie> I *think* only clearance needs to be above clamps, rapid safety might allow for rapid Z
[02:18:44]<joe9> djdelorie: mine is wood too.
[02:18:51]<djdelorie> step is 0.04 because it's step DOWN
[02:20:30]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks do you have a page link you got that from?
[02:21:30]<skunkworks__>http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/man/man9/motion.9.html[02:21:48]<joe9> djdelorie: for pocket operation, I get a new window asking for the details. For the Profile operation, I just get the properties subwindow. Is there some config setting for that?
[02:21:54]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks I was able to use the scope to see the signal was working
[02:22:04]<djdelorie> unlikely
[02:22:15]<djdelorie> I've learned to just fill in the properties directly
[02:22:49]<joe9> how much do you normally set rapid safety to?
[02:23:03]<djdelorie> I sent you my one heeks file :-)
[02:23:12]<joe9> oh, thanks. sorry about that.
[02:23:25]<djdelorie> I'm not an expert. I just know a little bit more than you do ;-)
[02:24:03]<Aero-Tec> motion.spindle-index-enable I/O BIT
[02:24:05]<Aero-Tec> For correct operation of spindle synchronized moves, this signal must be hooked to the index-enable pin of the spindle encoder.
[02:24:22]<Aero-Tec> not sure how
[02:24:53]<Aero-Tec> it did not have a link to where it explained how to hook the signal
[02:26:42]<skunkworks__> threading and feed per rev are 2 different things. threading uses the index as a position while feed per rev uses the spindle rotations per second signal
[02:27:09]<skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: are you able to thread?
[02:28:00]<Aero-Tec> not sure
[02:28:05]<Aero-Tec> have not tried it
[02:28:08]<joe9> djdelorie: you know more than me in almost everything.
[02:28:16]<Aero-Tec> just testing thing
[02:28:22]<joe9> /ws 34
[02:28:54]<Aero-Tec> thought I would start with a quick and easy program using G95 for feed rate
[02:29:39]<Aero-Tec> go you want me to try the threading sample of a 1/4 thread?
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[02:40:52]<skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob_plain;f=configs/nist-lathe/nist-lathe.hal;hb=HEAD[02:41:53]<skunkworks__> this hal exaample shows the encoder setup for threading (example0
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[02:46:30]<Tom_itx> is that part of the install example files?
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[02:52:00]<Aero-Tec> I tried to run the threading example
[02:52:42]<Aero-Tec> after loading the tool table and a few other things I could load the code
[02:53:08]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks, it gets stuck at line 14
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[02:53:32]<Aero-Tec> facing
[02:53:42]<Aero-Tec> whats up with that?
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[03:19:59]<Aero-Tec> ok
[03:20:17]<Aero-Tec> was in G95 mode still and not G94
[03:20:55]<Aero-Tec> switch to G94 and it would work, but stopped again at threading
[03:21:18]<Aero-Tec> so it will not thread of do G95 mode moves
[03:22:41]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: will you be around much longer?
[03:23:07]<Aero-Tec> will try and figure this out
[03:23:21]<Aero-Tec> but may need some help along the way
[03:29:35]<Aero-Tec> does EMC have a spindle seed readout at all?
[03:30:05]<Aero-Tec> how can one find out the RPM of the spindle?
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[03:55:44]<jdhNC> add a pyvcp window that has spindle speed
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[04:12:56]<Aero-Tec> new to all this
[04:13:15]<Aero-Tec> how does one add the window?
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[04:59:59]<Aero-Tec> did I miss anything?
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[07:08:49]<DJ9DJ> moin
[07:10:15]<alex4nder-> `hey
[07:11:29]<DJ9DJ> good morning
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[09:18:02]<coldelectrons> [rhetoric and chin-scratching] for code, how does one definitively judge one implementation better than the other?
[09:18:57]<archivist> insufficient data for answer :)
[09:20:45]<coldelectrons> archivist-command# wget -R http://codinghorror.com[09:21:25]* archivist is a volunteer commands not accepted[09:21:41]<coldelectrons> okay.../sudo/ wget
[09:22:44]<coldelectrons> ...alright. I've been spending far too long in a terminal when I start to make jokes using linux commands
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[13:16:59]JT-Shop-2 is now known as JT-Shop[13:33:16]<jymmm> JT-Shop: Mornin
[13:33:26]<jthornton> howdy
[13:33:29]<adb> moin
[13:37:21]<jymmm> Has anyone ever seen a propane based "bunsen burner" type thing with a safety shutoff?
[13:38:20]<TekniQue> I haven't
[13:38:29]<TekniQue> the ones I've used are extremely unsafe
[13:38:50]<TekniQue> unclamped hose barb fittings for the gas, etc
[13:39:54]<jymmm> Well, that's easily fixed. But I'm looking at a blown out open flame and gas leaking sorta thing
[13:40:09]<Aero-Tec> hello
[13:40:41]<TekniQue> jymmm: yeah I got what you meant
[13:40:49]<jymmm> =)
[13:41:03]<Aero-Tec> any EMC experts here?
[13:41:11]<TekniQue> the labs here the gas is just shut off when the lights go out
[13:41:13]<Aero-Tec> got a problem
[13:41:14]<jymmm> whats EMC?
[13:42:00]<Aero-Tec> ok linux cnc
[13:42:22]<Aero-Tec> liked the old name better
[13:42:33]<jthornton> the protocol is to ask your question not ask if anyone is an expert
[13:42:46]<jymmm> TekniQue: looks expensive http://americanfireglass.com/burners/safety-pilot-kit-for-propane.html[13:43:12]<Aero-Tec> the sorry
[13:43:39]<Aero-Tec> did not mean to offend anyone
[13:43:46]<jthornton> anything with the word safety is expensive so they can pay the lawyers and insurance
[13:43:56]<jymmm> heh
[13:44:09]<jthornton> no offense just giving you a heads up
[13:45:06]<jymmm> No, I understand =)
[13:45:58]<Aero-Tec> if it possible to do threading and run G95 type commands with index only input on a lathe
[13:46:01]<Aero-Tec> if so how?
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[13:47:30]<jthornton> I "think" you can make a horrible thread with an index but might be wrong
[13:47:30]<Aero-Tec> I have some examples of index and only one side of a encoder
[13:47:53]<jymmm> jthornton: That was $80-$140, now this is REALLY expensive http://www.northlineexpress.com/item/5MN-MVVKLPA/Propane-Gas-Millivolt-Valve-Kit[13:48:37]<Aero-Tec> like mach
[13:48:46]<jymmm> Remote Control Flammage!
[13:48:54]<Aero-Tec> they run index only and can make lousy threads
[13:49:05]<Aero-Tec> but I have had good luck with it
[13:49:13]<Aero-Tec> others were not so lucky
[13:49:33]<jymmm> jthornton: 'clap clap' Flame on!, 'clap clap' Flame off! lol
[13:49:52]<jthornton> ewww you want to thread like mack?
[13:50:06]<Aero-Tec> no
[13:50:16]<jthornton> I think luck has everything to do with mack threading
[13:50:26]<jthornton> have you looked at encoder.N.position-interpolated
[13:50:31]<Aero-Tec> I was running mach and now I want to run EMC
[13:50:38]<jdhNC> my turkey fryer has a thing that shuts off the gas if there is no flame
[13:50:39]<jthornton>http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/encoder.9.html[13:50:54]<jymmm> jdhNC: link?
[13:51:13]<jdhNC> lowes/home-depot, check out the grill aisle
[13:51:34]<jthornton> can you add at least one encoder input to your lathe?
[13:53:06]<jthornton> I "think" CSS needs at least one encoder channel to work
[13:57:13]<Aero-Tec> not easily
[13:57:25]<Aero-Tec> would have to look at it
[13:57:46]<jthornton> you would be much happier with your threads if you could
[13:58:15]<Aero-Tec> been using optos and have had problems with oil build up and they stop working till I blow them out
[13:58:15]<jthornton> what kind of lathe is it?
[13:58:25]<Aero-Tec> grizzly
[13:58:57]<Aero-Tec> about a 60 inch bed
[13:59:16]<jthornton> nice one
[13:59:26]<jthornton> a converted manual lathe?
[14:00:05]<Aero-Tec> yes
[14:00:35]<Aero-Tec> servos
[14:01:35]<Aero-Tec> been having problems with it lately
[14:02:15]<Aero-Tec> got a new tig welder and I am not sure if I damaged the gecko drives
[14:02:41]<Aero-Tec> it will actup in one direction only, both axies
[14:02:56]<Aero-Tec> but it comes and goes
[14:03:15]<Aero-Tec> when the dir sig is high it can act up
[14:03:27]<Aero-Tec> motors growls
[14:03:46]<Aero-Tec> like it is changing dir thousands of times
[14:03:48]<jthornton> just looking at the griz manuals and the spindle tube looks like a good spot to mount an encoder like device
[14:04:26]<jthornton> that don't sound good
[14:04:50]<jthornton> Marris is real helpful with troubleshooting his products
[14:04:56]<Aero-Tec> the other thing is it used to not error out when it growled, now it has started erroring out
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[14:05:41]<Aero-Tec> it used to just move slow and growl
[14:06:03]<Aero-Tec> now it may move slow
[14:06:09]<Aero-Tec> or not at all
[14:06:19]<Aero-Tec> some times error out
[14:06:24]<jthornton> both axes or just one
[14:06:40]<Aero-Tec> other times not error out
[14:06:47]<Aero-Tec> both
[14:07:09]<Aero-Tec> sometimes both will act up together, some time just one at a time
[14:07:25]<Aero-Tec> it is funny
[14:07:49]<Aero-Tec> your making a move, it is not moving but it is not erroring out
[14:08:21]<Aero-Tec> but yet the drives are getting step and dir sigs
[14:09:19]<Aero-Tec> so the drive are not seeing the sigs or are messing up
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[14:09:37]<Aero-Tec> yet they run perfect when dir is low
[14:10:13]<pcw_home> Measure the dir signal across the gecko input pins when high
[14:10:16]<Aero-Tec> swapped out computers just to make sure
[14:11:48]<pcw_home> do the Geckos have common GND or common VCC on their OPTO inputs?
[14:12:04]<Aero-Tec> opto
[14:12:15]<Aero-Tec> with both options
[14:12:27]<jymmm> pcw_home: You see the link I gave you?
[14:12:32]<pcw_home> which are you using?
[14:12:45]<Aero-Tec> common ground
[14:13:21]<pcw_home> so that suggests the high state is not high enough
[14:13:41]<jymmm> pcw_home: http://www.ntop.org/products/pf_ring/libzero-for-dna/[14:13:50]<pcw_home> jymmm yes saw it
[14:13:56]<jymmm> pcw_home: k
[14:13:58]<Aero-Tec> the computer is sourcing the power instead of sinking the power
[14:14:19]<pcw_home> direct from the parallel port?
[14:14:28]<pcw_home> or is there a BOB
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[14:15:29]<Aero-Tec> the bob is just a connector
[14:15:38]<Aero-Tec> so straight
[14:15:47]<Aero-Tec> or direct
[14:16:07]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: do yo have your hal file up somewhere?
[14:16:17]<Aero-Tec> the computer is directly connected to the drives
[14:16:30]<Aero-Tec> not yet
[14:16:43]<Aero-Tec> I have a few versions
[14:16:47]<pcw_home> My guess it that the PP high drive is too weak (try a 470 Ohm or so pullup)
[14:16:52]<Aero-Tec> but only one works
[14:17:11]<Aero-Tec> that is a good idea
[14:17:34]<Aero-Tec> not 1K
[14:17:59]<Aero-Tec> 1K pull ups used to be the norm
[14:18:03]<pcw_home> well if nothing else it should tell you if you are poking at the right spot
[14:18:14]<Aero-Tec> I see more 470 now
[14:19:01]<Aero-Tec> Just find it interesting 470 seems to be popular now
[14:21:16]<Aero-Tec> 470 would make a 11 mil amp sink
[14:21:35]<Aero-Tec> how much sink and the port take?
[14:22:18]<Aero-Tec> that is if the vcc is 5 volts
[14:22:40]<Aero-Tec> if it is the 3.X then it would be lower
[14:23:14]<pcw_home> I think the LPT spec is at least 15 mA sink
[14:23:32]<pcw_home> and 5V tolerance
[14:24:15]<pcw_home> worst case it wont go all the way to ground and you will have trouble when DIR is low
[14:24:47]<Aero-Tec> will try a 1K
[14:25:11]<Aero-Tec> I know that is safe as I have used it tons of times before
[14:25:22]<pcw_home> if its marginal that should make a noticable difference
[14:26:24]<Aero-Tec> so what do I do and my lathe and hal file?
[14:26:45]<Aero-Tec> should I look at getting a encoder input right away?
[14:26:59]<joe9> how do I get rid of this message from the gcode produced by heeks: (Feeds and Speeds set for machining Please select a material to machine)
[14:27:21]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: you should be able to thread decently with just an index.
[14:27:28]<skunkworks> (with linuxcnc)
[14:27:43]<Aero-Tec> I have a plan but have to order some stuff, so was hoping to limp along till I got it in
[14:27:57]<Aero-Tec> cool
[14:28:40]<Aero-Tec> the link you get me for the hal was for a index and one side of the encoder
[14:29:12]<Aero-Tec>http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob_plain;f=configs/nist-lathe/nist-lathe.hal;hb=HEAD[14:29:34]<Aero-Tec> I have tried to get it to work but it fails to load
[14:29:45]<joe9> djdelorie: how do you keep the linuxcnc tooltable and the heeks tooltable in sync?
[14:30:00]<Aero-Tec> my version based on you example
[14:30:17]<Aero-Tec> your
[14:30:59]<Aero-Tec> I have gone through the manual some and have tried several example there as well
[14:31:08]<Aero-Tec> and they all failed to load
[14:31:30]<Aero-Tec> but all were index and one side of encoder
[14:32:27]<Aero-Tec> and I was trying to use just index so I was picking and choosing what to put in
[14:32:37]<Aero-Tec> I did not get it right
[14:35:21]<pcw_home> probably have to connect the index signal to counter phase A and counter phase Z (since index does double duty in this case)
[14:35:44]<pcw_home> (both index and count)
[14:35:44]<Aero-Tec> I was wondering about that
[14:36:17]<Aero-Tec> can hal be pointed to one pin to do two things??
[14:36:30]<Aero-Tec> pin 11 is index
[14:36:51]<Aero-Tec> could a also be pin 11?
[14:36:54]<Aero-Tec> A
[14:37:09]<skunkworks> and then use the encoder.N.position-interpolated as jt said for threading (hooked to motion.spindle-revs)
[14:38:01]<Aero-Tec> this and the nice interface was why Mach won when I first started in CNC
[14:38:12]<skunkworks> net indexstuff pin11 encodeinputA index
[14:38:13]<pcw_home> yes an output can connect to as many inputs as required
[14:38:23]<skunkworks> (I am paraphrasing...)
[14:38:29]<Aero-Tec> I wish I went with EMC
[14:39:03]<skunkworks> you did. ;)
[14:39:13]<Aero-Tec> lol
[14:39:30]<Aero-Tec> took the long rout to get there
[14:39:54]<pcw_home> you can do a minimal encoder with a 1/2 disk (4 counts/rev) using just 2 pins (A/index and B)
[14:39:55]<Aero-Tec> so if I start with a step wiz setup
[14:40:13]<pcw_home> B
[14:40:13]<Aero-Tec> do I have to remove any of the step wiz stuff
[14:40:31]<Aero-Tec> and then what would I add to make this work?
[14:40:55]<Aero-Tec> I am as green as they come in EMC
[14:42:36]* skunkworks has never uses stepwiz[14:42:45]<pcw_home> Dont know offhand if stepconf makes any spindle control stuff
[14:42:48]<Aero-Tec> in theory that would be at most 2 counts, but emc seems to count just the leading edge
[14:43:03]<Aero-Tec> so one count and index
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[14:43:25]<pcw_home> with quadrature, 4 counts/turn
[14:43:53]<Aero-Tec> that would need both A and B
[14:44:36]<Aero-Tec> index does not enter into it
[14:45:07]<Aero-Tec> it is for threading mostly to get a start of thread refferance
[14:45:10]<pcw_home> with a 1/2 disk you have a + index as one wire and B as the other
[14:45:30]<Aero-Tec> ok
[14:45:42]<Aero-Tec> I see where your going
[14:46:05]<pcw_home> so you get a full reversable encoder with index on 2 wires
[14:46:05]<Aero-Tec> cool idea
[14:46:34]<pcw_home> you need sensors at 90 degrees
[14:46:48]<Aero-Tec> so if I uploaded my hal, could some tweak it for me?
[14:47:31]<Aero-Tec> right now my opto mount will not allow more then one opto
[14:47:39]<Aero-Tec> some one
[14:53:05]<skunkworks> a working hal file - we could have a look.
[14:54:53]<Aero-Tec>http://pastebin.com/6y9Yy0Gt[14:54:58]<joe9> what feedrate would you recommend for wood?
[14:55:07]<Aero-Tec> this is the stepwiz file
[14:55:13]<Aero-Tec> it works
[14:55:21]<Aero-Tec> thanks a million for the help
[14:55:54]<Aero-Tec> well loads, not works as the spindle working are now there
[14:56:04]<Aero-Tec> not
[14:56:12]<jthornton> joe9, one that doesn't burn the wood
[14:56:20]<Aero-Tec> man my typing is whacked this morn
[14:56:26]<jthornton> also use dead sharp tools
[14:56:42]<jthornton> I wish I could use morning as an excuse for my bad typing
[14:57:00]<joe9> heeks use a default feed rate of 3.93. i am not sure if it is too much.
[14:57:17]<jthornton> mm or inch?
[14:57:50]<Aero-Tec> would not the feed rate change for the cutter?
[14:57:57]<jthornton> aye
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[14:58:24]<joe9> feedrate_hv(3.937007874, 3.937007874) -- seems to be the feedrate line in the heeks generated python script.
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[14:59:17]<Aero-Tec> before one can set feed rate one would need to know carbide or HSS, number of fluts and size
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[14:59:33]<Aero-Tec> they all play a part in feed speeds
[14:59:47]<Aero-Tec> oh and depth of cut
[15:00:28]<jdhNC> I snapped my last two 1/8" end mills last night trying to cut 6061 @2500rpm, 10ipm, .020 DOC. Should I just go slower?
[15:01:03]<jthornton> give me a min to go to the shop and see what it should be
[15:01:11]<jthornton> hss or carbide?
[15:01:12]<Aero-Tec> jthornton: I am using the morning as a excuse, but truth is it can be whack most all the time
[15:01:20]<jthornton> lol me too
[15:01:23]<jdhNC> carbide, 4-flute
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[15:02:20]<Aero-Tec> is 2500 RPM the highest you equipment can go?
[15:02:43]<Aero-Tec> 2500 is slow for 1/8 carbide
[15:02:52]<pcw_home> Aero-Tec: so theres nothing about spindle synchronized motion in that stepconf generated file
[15:02:53]<pcw_home> Did you look at the spindle synchronized motion section of the integrators manual?
[15:03:09]<Aero-Tec> yes
[15:03:29]<Aero-Tec> was late and my head was swimming some
[15:03:38]<Aero-Tec> info overload
[15:04:02]<Aero-Tec> not much of a base to build from, I know nothing about hal
[15:04:06]<jdhNC> 2500 is faster than it is made to go.
[15:04:29]<JT-Shop> a chip load of .0005 @ 2500 is 5 IPM
[15:04:41]<Aero-Tec> so it was a overload of what to do and how to do it
[15:04:54]<JT-Shop> jdhNC: do you have a feed and speed spreadsheet?
[15:05:00]<jdhNC> JT: nope
[15:05:08]<Aero-Tec> 0.02 DOC is not much at all
[15:05:19]<jdhNC> Only done plastics up until now.
[15:05:20]<JT-Shop> do you have a spreadsheet program?
[15:05:27]<jdhNC> sure, got a spreadsheet?
[15:05:33]<JT-Shop> aye
[15:05:46]<JT-Shop> you using excel?
[15:05:47]<pcw_home> most of it applies (though the A=index business means the index input does double duty)
[15:05:49]<jdhNC> Aero-Tec: 0.020 was just a start.
[15:05:55]<jdhNC> JT: I have excel
[15:06:07]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: was that config generated with stepconf?
[15:06:16]<JT-Shop> new or old? the file is different
[15:06:22]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: yes
[15:06:38]<jdhNC> new is fine
[15:06:48]<JT-Shop> give me a min or three
[15:06:55]<jdhNC> thanks
[15:07:06]<skunkworks> I think you would go back though the stepconf wizard and connect pin11 to the encoder stuff. (I think you can...)
[15:07:25]<skunkworks>http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/config/stepconf.html[15:07:32]<skunkworks> kinda shows it at the end
[15:07:38]<Aero-Tec> I have some charts for F&S, but a spread sheet would be cool
[15:10:06]<pcw_home> it would be nice if the encoder comp could generate a simulated index (so a single detector/slotted wheel could be use to make good threads)
[15:10:31]<pcw_home> (as long as the limitations of a simulated index are spelled out)
[15:11:16]<skunkworks> pcw_home: I think it does.. The encoder output has a interpolated position...
[15:11:47]<pcw_home> I dont think it has index out
[15:11:53]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: I do not have PWM or any spindle controlles setup
[15:12:13]<JT-Shop> gnipsel.com/shop/files/Machining-Excel2007.zip should work if I didn't make a typo
[15:12:18]<Aero-Tec> just turn it on manually
[15:12:26]<skunkworks> I don't think that is a problem..
[15:12:45]<pcw_home> spindle control is not needed for threading
[15:12:50]<Aero-Tec> ok will try it
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[15:12:55]<Aero-Tec> thanks
[15:13:15]<JT-Shop> it even has hole saw speeds
[15:13:33]<Connor> jdhNC: You doing alumn ?
[15:13:38]<JT-Shop> jdhNC: did you see the link?
[15:13:55]<Connor> jdhNC: I use 2 flute HSS for that..
[15:14:10]<skunkworks> pcw_home: - oh - you mean for a single channel encoder - have a simulated index..
[15:14:23]<pcw_home> Yes
[15:14:26]<Connor> jdhNC: and use 1/4 or 1/2 end mills when possible..
[15:14:38]<skunkworks> I know it has been discussed.
[15:14:55]<archivist> I cannot imagine simulated index
[15:15:19]<archivist> needs to be real imo
[15:15:20]<Connor> I ended up making a new encoder disk so I got index.
[15:15:28]<jdhNC> Connor: Guess I should, I was cutting .20-ish holes at the same time
[15:15:34]<pcw_home> seems like it would be good for parallel port systems with limited input pins
[15:15:38]<skunkworks> you would tell the encoder how many counts per rev - then at each rotation - the encoder modual would ouptut and index
[15:15:44]<Connor> .20 ? Too deep for alumn.
[15:15:55]<Connor> Especially for 1/8
[15:16:10]<skunkworks> you would have to hope for accurate counting.. ;)
[15:16:15]<archivist> pcw_home, there is a problem is running at too hight a speed and missing any pulses
[15:16:17]<jthornton> jdhNC, also make sure your not recutting chips
[15:16:32]<pcw_home> well thats always a problem
[15:16:34]<jdhNC> JT: got it, thanks!
[15:16:42]<Aero-Tec> one way of doing it is slot size
[15:16:47]<jdhNC> Connor 0.5" aluminum, for the X ballscrew mount.
[15:16:48]<Connor> 2 flute for alum is really best, because it's so gummy.. 4 flute really for finish cut..
[15:16:54]<Aero-Tec> I have a disk on the lathe
[15:16:59]<Aero-Tec> 4 slots
[15:17:08]<jdhNC> connor: 0.020 deep
[15:17:09]<Connor> jdhNC: Yea, use 1/4 or 1/2 for most of the heavy lifting..
[15:17:14]<Aero-Tec> but one is longer then the others
[15:17:22]<pcw_home> but you dont need a high res encoder for threading so counting speed should not be an issue
[15:17:25]<archivist> pcw_home, I can demonstrate wrong thread pitch if the revs are high, but at least the start point is sensible
[15:17:36]<Aero-Tec> had to cover up 3 slots to get it to work with mach
[15:18:00]<Connor> Question on spindle encoders... I have Index and A, do I really need B for anything ? Does Rigid tapping require all 3 ?
[15:18:05]<archivist> pcw_home, I have a 48 slot encoder not hard to over speed
[15:18:11]<skunkworks> Connor: yes
[15:18:54]<pcw_home> except the special case of a 4 count/rev encoder where A=index
[15:19:24]<Connor> My encoder is a 16 slot..
[15:19:59]<Connor> I can't do rigid tapping yet till I get a way to reverse the spindle.
[15:20:50]<jdhNC> a tapping head might be easier
[15:20:59]<jthornton> Connor, without B there is no direction information.
[15:21:27]<Connor> jdhNC: They're a bit pricey.
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[15:21:28]<Aero-Tec> I guess a simulated index would be possible if you counted and took every X count as the index, but lord help you in you miss a count or have some noise
[15:21:36]<pcw_home> threading accuracy goes up proportional to the square of spindle encoder counts so you dont need to be very high
[15:22:01]<jthornton> Aero-Tec, you only want one index per rev
[15:22:06]<Connor> well.. 64 counts if I add B, plus index.
[15:22:43]<Aero-Tec> jthornton: ture
[15:23:43]<jdhNC> connor: http://www.ebay.com/itm/280885820312[15:23:44]<Aero-Tec> but one could have one encoder with 4 slots, one slot 1.5 to 2 time wider then the other 3
[15:23:57]<Aero-Tec> and the wide one is the index
[15:24:18]<Aero-Tec> one opto, 2 function, one pin
[15:24:33]<pcw_home> requires some fairly fancy software to track the expected widths
[15:24:37]<Aero-Tec> good threading
[15:24:56]<archivist> the index is separate pulse, not just a wide one
[15:25:12]<Aero-Tec> now yes
[15:25:29]<archivist> the software looks for the edges for position
[15:25:35]<Aero-Tec> but it could be setup differently
[15:25:57]<jdhNC> what is the best method to do spindle reversal with a ~100v, 10 amp DC motor?
[15:25:57]<archivist> then you have to phase lock...
[15:26:00]<Aero-Tec> would have to look at leading and trailing edges
[15:26:35]<archivist> it does already look at both edges
[15:26:36]<pcw_home> jdhNC: gently
[15:27:07]<archivist> if one reverses like I did in a product...some burn out :)
[15:27:25]<jthornton> jdhNC, does your spindle drive have a fwd/rev input?
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[15:28:28]<Aero-Tec> running a mill cutter backwards would be not so good for cutting
[15:28:30]<Aero-Tec> LOL
[15:28:32]<jdhNC> jthorton: it has a manual forward/reverse switch
[15:29:35]<jthornton> is it smart enough to ramp down and back up when you go from fwd to rev?
[15:29:57]<jdhNC> no, it is just a switch that reverses polarity
[15:30:08]<archivist> jdhNC, if on a vfd then it is reversed safely if the ramps are set correctly
[15:30:23]<jdhNC> no vfd, just a cheap chinese KB clone
[15:31:01]<archivist> just wait till it stops before reversal then
[15:31:24]<pcw_home> I guess a DPDT relay and a spindle encoder would do
[15:32:56]<pcw_home> (or if its a PM motor, a AC input OPTO/resistor across the motor to sense when BEMF was 0)
[15:33:44]<jdhNC> is there a reason to reverse other than rigid tapping?
[15:34:25]<jthornton> I sometimes run in reverse to cut on the far side with normal tools
[15:34:34]<jthornton> but that is rare
[15:35:09]<jdhNC> I'm working on an encoder plan. I have some plain a/b/z encoders, but no good way to drive them from the spindle.
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[15:35:50]<archivist> depends on setup clearance which side I cut
[15:35:57]<jthornton> how often do you find yourself wanting to rigid tap will weigh in on how much time you want to put into it
[15:36:41]<jdhNC> not sure I will ever really want to. A tap head would probably be orders of magnitude easier.
[15:36:44]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: when you re-run the stepconf - then re-post your hal file.
[15:36:58]<skunkworks> (make sure it loads first.)
[15:36:58]<jthornton> yep clearance and reach is the only reason I cut on the far side
[15:37:04]<Aero-Tec> ok
[15:37:14]<Aero-Tec> just finished and will post
[15:37:24]<jthornton> or he could post the stepconf file
[15:38:01]<jthornton> that way you get the whole config
[15:39:02]<skunkworks> jthornton: There will be some editing so - I would think the hal file would be the best. (he will not be able to run stepconf after this...)
[15:39:08]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: http://pastebin.com/N81dFx1K[15:39:15]<jthornton> ah ok
[15:39:36]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: yay - encoder stuff
[15:40:00]<Aero-Tec> I have to manually change the pins as stepwiz will not let 2 things be on the same pin
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[15:40:13]<Aero-Tec> so does it look good?
[15:40:26]<Aero-Tec> I did not get a chance to look at it yet
[15:40:47]<Aero-Tec> had just sat down when you asked for the file
[15:41:56]<skunkworks> not quite there yet...
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[15:42:39]<skunkworks> yes - and remember - once you edit the hal files manually - you cannot re-run stepconf because it will over write your changes.
[15:42:54]<skunkworks> have to run for a secodn..
[15:43:00]<skunkworks> biab
[15:43:02]<Aero-Tec> I know
[15:43:14]<Aero-Tec> I have a test config I run
[15:43:32]<Aero-Tec> as I added backlash to the real hal
[15:45:02]<Aero-Tec> so I will have to edit the 2 together
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[15:46:54]<Connor> jdhNC: I've been looking into maybe a different speed controller (not the c41, but the one that came with the grizzly). Some have a toggle that changes the direction via the H-bridge.
[15:47:39]<Connor> jdhNC: Another option would be to build a independent H-Bridge and interface that between the existing speed controller and the motor.
[15:48:32]<Connor> I do have another question on rigid tapping.. Is it possible to get it to stop after the down stroke to allow for manual reversing ?
[15:48:50]<JT-Shop> not that I know of
[15:49:43]<jdhNC> how many taps do you break off in the work before you figure out all the right parameters for rigid tapping?
[15:50:24]<Connor> No clue.. I had the idea of unlocking my quill and letting that be used to take up some of the slack just in case..
[15:51:08]<pcw_home> I suspect the reversal helps so it doesn't overshoot too far
[15:53:29]<djdelorie> joe9: so far, I haven't been
[15:54:01]<pcw_home> if you were chicken you could try wax first
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[15:58:26]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: thry this.. http://pastebin.com/r3yLt2S1[15:59:03]<skunkworks> I put a couple of comments in what I changed,,, assuming pin 11 is the spindle index
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[16:07:37]<skunkworks> within hal - you may have to run the encoder.0.velocity through a low pass to make feed per rev to work decently with 1ppr
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[16:08:35]<skunkworks> (and if you add a spindle rpm meter...) (so then you would need a scale hal componant to convert from rps to rpm)
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[16:19:04]<Tom_itx> jdhNC get a tapping head
[16:19:15]<skunkworks> rigid tapping is awesome!
[16:19:32]<skunkworks> Do it!
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[16:19:45]<Tom_itx> i wish i had the equipment to do it on
[16:20:55]<skunkworks> what kind of equipment are you missing?
[16:21:14]<Tom_itx> i got a cheap ass sherline
[16:21:34]<Tom_itx> i could put control on the spindle and add an encoder i suppose
[16:21:40]<Tom_itx> i don't think the motor reverses though
[16:21:59]<skunkworks> ah
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[16:22:11]<Tom_itx> it's dc so it might
[16:22:24]<Tom_itx> i'm not that worried about it
[16:22:43]<Tom_itx> i get alot done on it even if it's small
[16:22:50]<skunkworks> yep
[16:22:56]* skunkworks showing off[16:22:57]<skunkworks>http://youtu.be/2E3PMooch1k[16:23:28]<Tom_itx> latest psu / driver pics: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php[16:24:01]<skunkworks> jdhNC: do what it takes to mount the encoder :) http://youtu.be/5vvP4L_hr90[16:24:01]<Tom_itx> i've seen that video
[16:24:27]<Tom_itx> i also see the test board beside it :)
[16:24:31]<archivist> having power tapped a few k holes, I wish I had rigid tapping at the time
[16:24:42]<skunkworks> you can never see it too often ;)
[16:25:12]<skunkworks> Tom_itx: yes - plywood was the first couple tests.. ;)
[16:25:31]<Tom_itx> my test mount until i can make/buy an enclosure: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/frame1.jpg[16:25:39]<Tom_itx> need to finish that up soon
[16:25:53]<jdhNC> can't get video here... I don't think there is any way to attach an encoder unless I drilled out the back of the motor shaft and added something
[16:25:57]<skunkworks> nice - transformer for each drive?
[16:25:58]<archivist> my "tapping head" was a drill chuck hand held with the lathes reversing switch in the other hand
[16:26:11]<Tom_itx> skunkworks, no i combined them into one supply
[16:26:20]<Tom_itx> good for probably 18A
[16:26:24]<Tom_itx> 50v
[16:26:42]<jdhNC> you forgot the panduit
[16:26:45]<Tom_itx> i was gonna do that but decided to combine them
[16:26:47]<skunkworks> jdhNC: mine is run with a timing belt
[16:26:49]<Tom_itx> ok jymmm
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[16:26:55]<Tom_itx> :)
[16:27:14]<jdhNC> skunkworks: motor shaft only has room for the gear
[16:27:32]<Tom_itx> i gotta find a use for the spare heatsink now
[16:27:43]<skunkworks> jdhNC: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/spindle/spindleencoder.JPG[16:27:53]<jdhNC> I bought panduit, paid way too much for shipping and ended up with no room to put it in
[16:27:58]<jdhNC> same for the nifty DIN mount fuse blocks
[16:28:58]<skunkworks> we mounted the timing gear where we could.. (on a hexed end of the spinle tube) http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/spindle/spindletiminggear.JPG[16:29:07]<jdhNC> skunkworks: that looks like the encoder I have (100line, AB)
[16:29:27]<skunkworks> this one is 1024iirc
[16:29:32]<skunkworks> abz
[16:29:56]<skunkworks> we had the bearing blow up in the first one.. we added some more support ;)
[16:30:23]<jdhNC>http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0704/parts/HEADSTOCK[16:31:08]<jdhNC> I could put an extension on the current spindle encoder ring to get it high enough, then hang the endoder off the side.
[16:33:00]<skunkworks> jdhNC: I wonder if this would be enough for you.. (are the gears steel?)
[16:33:02]<skunkworks> pico-systems.com/Machining.html
[16:33:51]<jdhNC> which one?
[16:34:49]<Connor> jdhNC: You trying to use that existing encoder disk ?
[16:35:04]<jdhNC> I was trying to leave it in place
[16:35:22]<jdhNC> but, a real encoder would be more useful, but ugly.
[16:35:41]<Connor> yea, this is what I'm doing. I removed the motor mount.. and cut it in half. (you can buy the motor mount for $8.00 or so if that concerns you too much)
[16:35:53]<Connor> milled out the new one.. you saw the 3D part.
[16:36:04]<Connor> Now I just need to mount the slot sensors around it.
[16:36:07]<jdhNC> motor mount is $16, new encoder wheel is like $6
[16:36:28]<Connor> new encoder wheel won't give you index.
[16:36:55]<jdhNC> no, but if I screw it up making the extension I still have one I can use
[16:37:10]<jdhNC> what did you cut the new encoder wheel with (end mill)
[16:39:21]<Connor> I think I used 1/4 or 1/2 to do most of it.. then 1/8 to make the holes and do the finial outside cut to remove the part.
[16:40:13]<Connor> Then chucked it up in the lathe and took a few .001's off the outside edges and cleaned it up.. and faced it.
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[17:06:28]<skunkworks> jdhNC: sorry http://pico-systems.com/bridge_spindle.html[17:07:44]<Connor> skunkworks: Why the different mounting for the brackets ?
[17:08:33]<skunkworks> Connor: I think he did whatever to make it fit...
[17:09:04]<skunkworks> plus it makes 1 adjustable... (for quadrature...)
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[17:16:48]<jdhNC> I'm guessing I don't have metal gears.
[17:16:54]<jdhNC> but, haven't actually looked.
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[17:20:42]<IchGuckLive> hi all
[17:20:55]<Tom_itx> skunkworks did you do that encoder conversion?
[17:21:24]<skunkworks> Tom_itx: no - I used a conventional encoder
[17:21:43]<Tom_itx> i was gonna ask about quadrature alignment but i see the slot now
[17:21:45]<skunkworks> that was john E of pico systems.
[17:24:05]<Tom_itx> i could actually get these drivers wired up today and test them but i'm sure i'll get distractions
[17:24:20]<jdhNC> by dancing girls?
[17:25:13]<jymmm> Tom_itx: Is that a terminal or fuse block on the left side?
[17:25:24]<Tom_itx> terminal block
[17:25:35]<jymmm> Tom_itx: where's the fuses?
[17:25:39]<Tom_itx> what fuses?
[17:25:41]<Tom_itx> :)
[17:25:51]<Tom_itx> i haven't found a suitable holder for one
[17:26:02]<Tom_itx> i will probably end up with a screw mount
[17:26:26]<Tom_itx> fuse the output or input?
[17:26:32]<jymmm> yes
[17:26:35]<Tom_itx> pfft
[17:26:52]<jymmm> fuse EACH driver, AND the mains
[17:27:12]<archivist> fuses are for wimps
[17:27:13]<Tom_itx> i wonder how big a fuse to use on the main
[17:27:23]<jdhNC> 50amp
[17:27:38]<jdhNC> make sure it doesn't blow and shut you down.
[17:27:40]<Tom_itx> archivist agreed. they're for those that are confident they'll screw up
[17:28:23]<Tom_itx> and once they blow then you're scrambling to find a 1/4" piece of copper to cram in it's place
[17:28:55]<jymmm> Tom_itx: Copper, no silly boy.... 22LR bullet
[17:29:10]<Tom_itx> ahh yeah
[17:29:55]<FinboySlick> There's got to be a recorded case of someone doing that.
[17:30:09]<Tom_itx> mythbusters tested it
[17:30:20]<archivist> should be on thereifixedit.com
[17:30:31]<jymmm> yep, straight to the crotch!
[17:30:36]fliebel is now known as pepijndevos[17:30:52]<pcw_home> A blown fuse in driver DC power will likely kill the driver so its kind of a mixed blessing
[17:31:01]<FinboySlick> It's beautiful in its simplistic stupidity.
[17:32:01]<jymmm> pcw_home: Eh, guess it's better to blow up one drive than three.
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[17:32:21]<archivist> drives are strong beasts
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[17:32:38]<Tom_itx> yeah, at least that's what the gecko guy claims
[17:32:38]<jymmm> pcw_home: Wait, why would a blown driver fuse blow up the drive? I know disconnecting the motor fromt he drive will for sure.
[17:32:58]<pcw_home> disconnecting DC is the same
[17:33:11]<djdelorie> in my case at least, the power supply is where the braking energy goes when a motor stops
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[17:33:50]<jymmm> Dont some still toss a dump resistor on there in that case?
[17:34:11]<pcw_home> for servos a DPDT relays that dumps the charge is good
[17:34:36]<pcw_home> (disconnects AC and dump DC through a resistor)
[17:34:57]<jymmm> couldn't do the same for stepper setup?
[17:35:24]<pcw_home> you can but it will not work for braking as well
[17:35:44]<jymmm> what about saving the drive from a blown fuse?
[17:36:05]<pcw_home> not fast enough
[17:36:11]<jymmm> k
[17:36:22]<Tom_itx> so just a fuse on the main?
[17:36:56]<Tom_itx> i'd rather have facts over opinions
[17:37:10]<pcw_home> a snubber built into the drive would work (but drive manufacturers are to cheap to add MOSFET for that)
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[17:37:54]<Tom_itx> pcw_home, he claims the 203v is bullet proof
[17:38:12]<jymmm> EXCEPT for disconnecting the motor from the drive in operation.
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[17:38:43]<pcw_home> A fuse large enough that it will only blow with a drive failure might be a good idea for fire prevention
[17:39:52]<Tom_itx> my present drivers are wired right into the supply
[17:40:18]<pcw_home> since the common AC fuse/breaker may have enough let through power to make a fair fire in one drive
[17:41:27]<jymmm> Well, I see no fuses here, so forget em http://www.geckodrive.com/support.html[17:41:33]<pcw_home> but it does add one more point of failure so lowers reliability
[17:42:11]<archivist> and fuse failure for no apparent reason is a common failure
[17:42:16]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: ok it threads but not G95
[17:42:38]<Aero-Tec> and how do I set up the RPM meter?
[17:43:02]<pcw_home> if you disconnect DC when you have a large amount of inductive energy in your motor the DC at the drive will rise until something breaks
[17:43:22]<pcw_home> (or a snubber trips)
[17:43:41]<Aero-Tec> I need to watch that as the opto can get oil on them and setup to fail
[17:43:50]<archivist> snubber also called a crowbar over here
[17:44:03]<jymmm> Tom_itx: http://www.geckodrive.com/gecko/images/cms_files/images/stardaisy.jpg[17:44:59] -!- Tom_L [Tom_L!~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:45:06]<Aero-Tec> I thought a snubber was a dampener and a crowbar was a active short to trigger the braker of fuse
[17:45:08]<Tom_L> jymmm, i'm doing that
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[17:45:21]<pcw_home> I wonder why someone dos not market a add-on snubber for all those cheap
[17:45:22]<pcw_home> step drivers that people are alway frying with excessive voltage
[17:45:23]Tom_L is now known as Tom_itx[17:45:48]<Tom_itx> why don't you?
[17:45:49]<Tom_itx> :)
[17:45:51]<jdhNC> they have them becaue they are cheap
[17:45:57]<jymmm> pcw_home: profit is in replacement sales =)
[17:46:21]<pcw_home> ;-)
[17:46:23]<Aero-Tec> one maybe able to use a MOV
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[17:46:36]<pcw_home> MOVs are too sloppy
[17:46:42]<Aero-Tec> they are a active crowbar at X voltage
[17:46:50]<archivist> hardly
[17:46:50]<djdelorie> two back-to-back zeners?
[17:47:06]<pcw_home> you need a reference --> comparator -- >MOSFET
[17:47:16]<archivist> big zeners to take that energy are expensive
[17:47:44]<pcw_home> (and ~1 to 10 Ohm resistor)
[17:47:59]<Aero-Tec> they would have to be fast as well
[17:48:44]<pcw_home> You need to have enough capacitance on your drive to lower the DVDT to a level the the snubber can catch
[17:48:53]<pcw_home> that the
[17:50:09]<Aero-Tec> you know what might work is a big cap, connected to a bridge rectifier and a blocking diode to stop back feed to the motors
[17:50:11]<djdelorie> two zeners and a light bulb? A pair of TVS diodes?
[17:50:38]<jymmm> a pint can of graphite =)
[17:50:38]<Aero-Tec> zeners would not be good
[17:51:04]<pcw_home> HV zeners and TVS are not very good (we've used both schemes)
[17:51:08]<Aero-Tec> I bet the cap and bridge would work
[17:51:27]<djdelorie> "cap and diode" is basically what my setup is
[17:51:51]<djdelorie> braking energy is just returned to the power supply and saved for future use
[17:52:06]<djdelorie> essentially, regenerative braking :-)
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[17:52:45]<Aero-Tec> could also use a small bleed off resistor
[17:53:09]<djdelorie> I don't even have a power switch yet...
[17:53:26]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: are you around?
[17:53:34]<Aero-Tec> we are close but not there yet
[17:53:51]<jymmm> djdelorie: Just wire it directly to the panel. Don't need no stink switch!
[17:54:08]<djdelorie> there's a switch on the power strip, otherwise I just plug it in when I want it on
[17:54:20]<djdelorie> I have separate power cords for logic power and motor power anyway
[17:54:33]<jdhNC> my enclosure came with a big power disconnect, but it might be too bulky to leave in.
[17:55:09]<djdelorie> I was thinking of one power cord and power switch for both supplies, but a separate switch between the motor power supply and the drivers
[17:55:29]<djdelorie> so "off" means OFF not wait-until-the-caps-drain
[17:55:35]<Tom_itx> ok here's another one. should logic power come up before motor power?
[17:55:48]<jdhNC> that would be nice
[17:55:52]<djdelorie> depends on your drivers
[17:56:11]<Tom_itx> the drivers shouldn't move until they get a step and direction signal
[17:56:23]<jdhNC> when I turn off my panel power, it kills the 5vdc to the 7i43 which makes LinuxCNC unhappy.
[17:56:24]<djdelorie> I mean whether they blow up or not in that case
[17:56:38]<pcw_home> you dont want to disconnect the DC from the drives unless you have something to absorb the inductive energy from the motors
[17:57:09]<Tom_itx> pcw_home let the supply caps bleed off slowly?
[17:57:30]<djdelorie> yeah, I figured I'd have to add something after the switch
[17:58:09]<pcw_home> for servos its better to have a DPDT relay that opens the AC and shorts the capacitors via a dump resistor when off/faulted
[17:58:23]<Tom_itx> these are steppers
[17:58:31]<pcw_home> that way you get braking
[17:58:52]<Tom_itx> the relay would need to handle the full continuous motor power though wouldn't it?
[17:59:14]<pcw_home> for steppers its less important
[17:59:14]* Tom_itx grabs some old elevator relays he stuffed in a box[17:59:16]<djdelorie> or SPDT that switches the controllers from the DC power supply to a big light bulb?
[17:59:48]<djdelorie> pcw_home: steppers draw high current when stopped, servos don't. That makes the problem *worse* for steppers
[18:00:15]<pcw_home> you dont want to disconnect your capacitors from the drives (if you lik eyour drives)
[18:00:29]<Tom_itx> djdelorie, these drivers claim they reduce current by 70% 1 sec after last pulse is received
[18:00:41]<djdelorie> that's still 30% of max current, vs 0% for servos
[18:01:09]<pcw_home> right but at a fault or shutdown servo current could be anything
[18:02:18]<Tom_itx> i wish someone would draw up a recomended wiring diagram for both types of systems
[18:02:30]<pcw_home> the relay only carries the AC primary current continuously (the DC side only a surge when turned off)
[18:02:32]<Tom_itx> i'm somewhat going off my old driver setup
[18:02:47]<Tom_itx> and somewhat off the advice here
[18:03:54]<Tom_itx> the old driver may have a line fuse but i didn't notice any other protection or bleed off setup
[18:05:38]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: what is the issue
[18:06:02]<Tom_itx> pcw_home, ok so one side of the DPDT relay carries the mains and the other side is for the dc bleed off resistor or whatever is used
[18:06:23]<pcw_home> For step motors I am assuming yo have enough output capacitance to absorb all
[18:06:23]<Aero-Tec> G95 will not see the spindle running
[18:06:25]<pcw_home> the motors stored inductive energy in your capacitors without raising the voltage to dangerous levels
[18:06:27]<pcw_home> the purpose of the dump relay is to stop the servo system quickly its not much help for step motors
[18:06:28]<pcw_home> as they dont brake worth sh*t
[18:06:33]<Tom_itx> i considered using a dpdt switch that way
[18:06:34]<Tom_itx> why would you need a relay?
[18:06:40]<Aero-Tec> also need RPM display
[18:06:55]<Aero-Tec> it will thread now
[18:07:09]<pcw_home> for a servo system its part of the estop chain
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[18:07:19]<Aero-Tec> you mentioned a low pass thing
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[18:08:06]<pcw_home> but probably overkill on a step motor sized system
[18:08:27]<Tom_itx> i'm just gonna wire them to the driver and not worry about it
[18:08:42]<Tom_itx> now, what about driver fuses?
[18:08:51]<Tom_itx> i will have one mains fuse for sure
[18:09:03]<Tom_itx> you say that may kill the driver
[18:09:03]<andypugh> Black powder or dynamite?
[18:09:14]<pcw_home> I would not worry about individual driver fuses
[18:09:16]<jymmm> andypugh: ANFO
[18:09:21]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: you said "within hal - you may have to run the encoder.0.velocity through a low pass to make feed per rev to work decently with 1ppr"
[18:09:29]<Tom_itx> jymmm yeah, it's quicker
[18:09:59]<Aero-Tec> would like to know also how to setup the RPM
[18:10:47]<Tom_itx> one could use an old auto defroster coil as a bleed
[18:10:52]<Tom_itx> if you can still find them
[18:11:12]<Tom_itx> heating element
[18:11:35]<ReadError> *facepalm*
[18:11:39]<pcw_home> incandescent light bulb if they are still legal
[18:11:41]<ReadError> amazon, ordered 2 of the same endmills
[18:11:49]<ReadError> they ship it 2 seperate packages
[18:11:52]<ReadError> 1 is a day late!
[18:12:06]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: does threading work?
[18:12:27]<Aero-Tec> it looks like it does
[18:12:33]<skunkworks> cool!
[18:12:33]<Aero-Tec> did not do a cut
[18:12:43]<Aero-Tec> but did cut air and it looked good
[18:13:23]<Aero-Tec> so just need the G95 to work and a RPM meter and I should be good to go
[18:13:58]<jymmm> Here ya go, a big ass dump resisotr pre wired http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202519662/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=electric+starter&storeId=10051[18:15:06]<jymmm> 110VAC @ 500W
[18:16:14]<pcw_home> for step motors the dump circuit is also less needed as the idle current will drop the voltage quickly
[18:16:43]<djdelorie> my servos are still "live" for a few seconds after I unplug them
[18:17:04]<djdelorie> to kill them off faster, I just jog the machine ;-)
[18:17:12]<pcw_home> really its a servo thing (where idling servo draw ~0 current)
[18:17:23]<pcw_home> Yep
[18:17:49]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: you remed out encoder A input
[18:18:14]<Aero-Tec> I will try to put it back in and change the pin to 11, it was 12
[18:18:18]<pcw_home> but for estop especially you may want to dump the charge ASAP
[18:22:06]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: Hal does not like 2 things on one pin
[18:22:50]<Aero-Tec> I will have to rewire encoder A to a second pin, tie 11 and 12 together or something
[18:23:24]<Aero-Tec> that would give a encoder A input
[18:23:30]<Aero-Tec> or would I have to even do that?
[18:24:37]<pcw_home> hal shou have no problems with multiple destinations on a net, only multiple sources (a "short")
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[18:34:14]<Guthur> I know this channel isn't specifically about CNC machine design but would anyone have open source CNC mill/router designs they could suggest?
[18:34:22]<Guthur> I know of DIYLILCNC
[18:36:05]<andypugh> I would suggest looking at lots of other designs and keeping the bits you like.
[18:36:26]<jdhNC> example?
[18:36:45]<Guthur> yeah I really want to bring in more examples
[18:37:06]<Guthur> but the only things I have found Open Source so far are DIYLILCNC and MakerSlide
[18:37:21]<Guthur> MakeSlide is just a linear bearing
[18:38:08]<Guthur> I would reasonably detailed designs because I am not a mechanical engineer by trade, but willing to get a few bashed thumbs and learn, hehe
[18:38:12]<djdelorie> you can copy mine, but I wouldn't recommend it: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/[18:39:08]<Guthur> djdelorie: maybe you are being modest, hehe
[18:39:25]<djdelorie> mine was cobbled together based on whatever surplus parts we had available
[18:41:20]<Guthur> I was hoping that I could find a reasonably scalable design, where I could build a small prototype to learn, with the possibility of scaling it up later in a subsequent build
[18:41:46]<Guthur> that thought was making me a little wary of the DIYLILCNC design
[18:41:59]<Guthur> it's neat and all but I don't think one could scale it up much
[18:42:49]<Guthur> djdelorie: those pictures should prove useful enough, you show quite a lot of the workings
[18:42:54]<Guthur> which is good
[18:43:17]<djdelorie> it was a simple design, but given I started with a woodworking shop... ;-)
[18:43:31]<jdhNC> look at as many as you can, decide what you like about bearings, rails, screws, etc. Find what parts you think will have good fit/value/rigidity, design your own around the parts.
[18:44:38]<andypugh> I just found this one, but I am not sute what is "open" source about charging for it.. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1738994529/kikori-open-source-cnc-gantry-router[18:44:54]<andypugh> He does recommend LinuxCNC as the controller though.
[18:45:20]<djdelorie> money has nothing to do with open source or free software
[18:45:33]<djdelorie> OSS/FS is about the licensing model
[18:45:51]<djdelorie> even the FSF makes money by charging people for source code
[18:45:57]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: no. I remarked out one furhter down - but hooked them up in the encoder area
[18:46:22]<skunkworks> if threading worked - then it was setup right. We just need to setup a lowpass for the spindle velocity.
[18:47:10]<skunkworks> what happend when you tried to do a g95?
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[18:49:01]<andypugh> djdelorie: I am aware of that, but couldn't quite figure out his Kickstarter thing. However, reading http://www.sindrianarts.com/ it seems that the idea is that the Kickstarter money buys him the parts and equipment to develop it, and then the plans are to be OS.
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[18:49:54]<andypugh> Looking at that design, it seems a fair bit more rigid in the cantry than many others.
[18:50:11]<djdelorie> the kickstarter does say backers get the design files
[18:51:44]<Guthur> andypugh: cheers for the linkk
[18:51:58]<djdelorie> here's the download: http://www.sindrianarts.com/kikori-1-4-design-files/[18:52:00]<Guthur> looks interesting, though I don't think the project is quite complete yet
[18:52:08]<andypugh> I think that the idea might be that anyone can have the design files, and backers also get chairs or ipad stands etc.
[18:52:55]<Guthur> kickstarter seems to helping a few Open Source hardware projects which is sweet
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[18:56:04]<Guthur> awesome I had missed the design files, cheers djdelorie
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[19:02:57]<adb> how we open ~.dxf file ?
[19:03:13]<djdelorie> mine popped up in qcad
[19:04:03]<adb> good, tks
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[19:05:41]<Aero-Tec> complains the spindle is stopped
[19:06:24]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: complains the spindle is stopped
[19:06:40]<archivist> some diagnosis required
[19:07:01]<jymmm> Aero-Tec: Is the spindle plugged into the wall?
[19:07:06]<alex4nder-> hey
[19:07:18]<Aero-Tec> lol
[19:07:20]<Aero-Tec> it was turning
[19:08:08]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: I can not see where you tied encoder A to a pin
[19:08:33]<Aero-Tec> can you work on only the index?
[19:08:58]<Aero-Tec> or did you tie encoder A to the index in Hal?
[19:10:01]<archivist> a would not go to index!
[19:10:55]<archivist> assuming a normal encoder A+ Z encoder
[19:13:28]<Aero-Tec> I installed the resistors and have tied pin 11 an12 together, unremmed the encoder A pin 12 and will test to see if it works
[19:17:36]<andypugh> It just occurred to me that there is a slight bootstrap problem with that Open Source Router.
[19:17:58]<Aero-Tec> well that did not work
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[19:18:20]<Aero-Tec> the resistors may have fixed the drive problem
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[19:18:45]<Aero-Tec> they tested good, running well, but that would come and go so not sure yet
[19:18:55]JT-Shop-2 is now known as JT-Shop[19:19:34]<Aero-Tec> the file loaded, just will not see the spindle running
[19:21:25]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: http://pastebin.com/HL4AHbBf[19:21:31]<Aero-Tec> new hal
[19:21:46]<Aero-Tec> had to six the z dir pin
[19:22:17]<Aero-Tec> reverse the dir of it
[19:22:18]<Connor> six the z dir pin ?
[19:22:21]<skunkworks> net spindle-index <= parport.0.pin-11-in
[19:22:23]<skunkworks> net spindle-index encoder.0.phase-A
[19:22:25]<skunkworks> net spindle-index encoder.0.phase-Z
[19:22:38]<skunkworks> that is how the index is tied to the A
[19:22:52]<Aero-Tec> ok
[19:23:01]<Connor> Yea. I think that's what I'm doing ATM.. till I get my A and B working.
[19:23:03]<skunkworks> says spindle is not turning?
[19:23:27]<Aero-Tec> yes
[19:23:50]<Aero-Tec> says can not move when spindle is stopped in G95 mode
[19:23:58]<Aero-Tec> or something close to that
[19:24:15]<Aero-Tec> I can get the exact wording
[19:24:20]<skunkworks> ok
[19:24:28]<Aero-Tec> but threading works fine it would seam
[19:25:48]<Aero-Tec> the new hal fixes the z dir
[19:26:14]<Aero-Tec> other then that is should be you hal
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[19:30:46]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: could you see if I got it right?b http://pastebin.com/0i9myY53[19:30:57] -!- syyl has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[19:31:16]<skunkworks> setp lowpass.0.gain 0.01 sets the filter
[19:31:57]<skunkworks> you should halmeter the motion.spindle-speed-in and see what you get. It should be in spindle RPS
[19:32:32]<skunkworks> and should be pretty smooth (not bouncing around too much)
[19:34:11]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: sorry one small mistake.. This should be close.. http://pastebin.com/5m7ZJPD5[19:35:47] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
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[19:38:06]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: are you actully starting the spindle in gcode for the g95?
[19:38:18]<skunkworks> (m05s100 or such)
[19:38:28]<skunkworks> heh
[19:38:34]<skunkworks> (m03s100 or such)
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[19:41:21]<skunkworks> because I get a 'cannot feed with zero spindle speed in feed per rev mode' if I don't turn the spindle on first...
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[19:44:57]<skunkworks> (might try that first...)
[19:45:03]<andypugh> I got some sample pieces from a local laser cutter today. They make solder stencils for PCB making, so have a machine set up with a 25um laser that cuts up to 0.25mm stainless. Which sounds just the job for making high-count encoder discs.
[19:45:28]<skunkworks> neat!
[19:46:00]<andypugh> Minimum charge of £50, but I don't yet know how many I get for that.
[19:46:14]<andypugh> (I think they need to see the cut path)
[19:46:27]<skunkworks> Question in general then... do you need to filter the encoder velocity coming from a 1ppr encoder - I would think you would if you want to do feed per rev type stuff
[19:47:04]<andypugh> Feed per rev is on position, and the position-interpolated pin tries to smooth that out.
[19:47:07]<skunkworks> we have a few encoders that have a stainless steel encoder wheel...
[19:47:09]<archivist> there is also photo chemical etch companies, I have a sample encoder disk here somewhere
[19:47:40]<skunkworks> feed per rev is not using position - it uses motion.spindle-speed-in
[19:47:40]<andypugh> Yes, I got a quote from Photofab too, £200 for 25 of them. which is OK, but I only want 2
[19:48:11]<andypugh> skunkworks: Are you sure? Threading uses motion-spindle-revs
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[19:49:24]<skunkworks> andypugh: correct... but feed per rev uses motion.spindle-speed-in IN FLOAT
[19:49:25]<skunkworks> Actual spindle speed feedback in revolutions per second; used for G96 feed-per-revolution and constant surface speed modes.
[19:49:31]<andypugh> Hmm, yes, the docs do say that, don't they?
[19:49:43]<skunkworks> heh
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[19:50:17]<skunkworks> I am pretty sure I had to hook it up to do some cylinder boring on the K&t in feed per rev
[19:50:35]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: did not work
[19:50:40]<Tom_itx> is this lathe or mill?
[19:50:47]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: what didn't work?
[19:51:03]<Aero-Tec> loading the Hal
[19:51:08]<skunkworks> what is the error?
[19:51:14]<frallzor> ayyy thar mateys
[19:51:22]<andypugh> It always tells you what the problem is.
[19:51:22]<Aero-Tec>http://pastebin.com/fQhWcibi[19:51:35]* Tom_itx wonders if fragalot wears an eyepatch[19:51:39]<Aero-Tec> the error report
[19:51:49]<andypugh> 'motion.spindle-speed-in' was already linked to signal 'spindle-velocity'
[19:51:52]<fragalot> Tom_itx: I don't
[19:52:12]<frallzor> ;)
[19:52:20]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: did you use my second pastebin?
[19:52:24]<andypugh> So swap motion.spindle-speed-in to spindle-velocity in the new stuff that you added
[19:52:32]<Aero-Tec> just saw it
[19:52:35]<Aero-Tec> will try it
[19:53:06]<frallzor> Im happy I have a mechmate todayh with mdh spoilboard, tool got loose, milled right trough 60mm wood in total in 2 passes
[19:53:19]<frallzor> and then all on the floor as ending
[19:53:28]<Aero-Tec> I did do a s1000 m3 in gcode
[19:53:29]<skunkworks> (I forgot to remark out the original line on the first pastebin)
[19:53:47]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: and that didn't work for g95?
[19:55:25]<Aero-Tec> will try your new code now
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[20:04:48]<Aero-Tec> same error
[20:05:08]<Aero-Tec> but spindle index is working
[20:05:45]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: spindle velocity is showing up in the scope
[20:06:35]<skunkworks> scope?
[20:07:33]<skunkworks> does it look correct? around the right RPS for what the spindle is actually turning?
[20:08:25]<Aero-Tec>http://pastebin.com/TucvK4Xz[20:08:34]<Aero-Tec> my gcode
[20:08:40]<Aero-Tec> will check spindle speed in scope
[20:10:15]<skunkworks> what scope are you talking about? within linuxcnc?
[20:12:34]<JT-Shop> this what you had to hook up to get G95 to work?
[20:12:35]<JT-Shop> motion.spindle-speed-in IN FLOAT
[20:12:35]<JT-Shop> Actual spindle speed feedback in revolutions per second; used for G96 feed-per-revolution and constant surface speed modes.
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[20:13:20]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: yes the emc scope
[20:13:29]<Aero-Tec> 1/div
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[20:13:38]<Aero-Tec> just shy of 5 divs
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[20:14:11]<Aero-Tec> the pullies were set to 320
[20:14:34]<skunkworks> hmm - then I would think it is working...
[20:14:36]<Aero-Tec> not sure how to read the speed in emc scope
[20:14:49]<MDesade> ok, im back for a few moments
[20:14:58]<MDesade> whats going on?
[20:15:16]<Aero-Tec> trying to make my lathe run in EMC
[20:15:27]<Aero-Tec> working on Hal file
[20:15:34]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: you can use halmeter for simple things.. it will give you a number.. It is right around where the halscope menu itiem is..
[20:15:39]<Aero-Tec> did the Gcode look good?
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[20:16:06]<Aero-Tec> want I should look at halmeter?
[20:16:09]<MDesade> gotcha... i "need" to get a lathe... very handy tool to have
[20:16:23]<andypugh> I do a lot more on the lathe than the mill.
[20:16:39]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: it runs on the lathe sim...
[20:19:10]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: look at the motion.spindle-speed-in
[20:21:11]<Aero-Tec> the spindle velocity in the halmeter is 4.7
[20:21:30]<Aero-Tec> will check it
[20:21:32]<skunkworks> is it running at about 282 rpm?
[20:21:45]<Aero-Tec> should be 320
[20:21:48]<MDesade> yeah, i just need to justify it to the lady
[20:21:56]<Aero-Tec> but does run slow
[20:22:05]<Aero-Tec> so it could be 282
[20:22:11]<skunkworks> so that is probably right...
[20:22:18]<skunkworks> double check in halmeter thought
[20:22:20]<skunkworks> though
[20:22:23]<Aero-Tec> very close if not right
[20:22:30]<Aero-Tec> but I would say it is right
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[20:22:56]<Aero-Tec> do you still need to me check spindle speed in?
[20:23:09]<skunkworks> I would double check it - in halmeter..
[20:23:17]<Aero-Tec> ok
[20:23:22]<Aero-Tec> BRB
[20:23:30]<skunkworks> In mdi - I did a m3s300
[20:23:35]<skunkworks> then a g95
[20:24:16]<Connor> I need to get my spindle speed control re-written.. it's hacked to death and uses funky stuff.. (PID feedback)
[20:24:38]<jdhNC> what's wrong with PID
[20:24:44]<skunkworks> then g1x1f.001 and it worked in sim.
[20:25:02]<Connor> It's done using SUM.. I think andypugh was saying better way to do it..
[20:25:27]<Connor> Nothing wrong with PID itself.. just the way my HAL file is configured.
[20:26:18]<jdhNC> is the motor shaft visible from the top of the motor?
[20:26:44]<Connor> Need to figure out what ohm resistor to use with my slot sensors and get those soldered in on my board so I can finalize my e-stop box.
[20:26:47]<Aero-Tec> it was 4.7 as well
[20:27:10]<Connor> yea, but, it's below the casing.
[20:27:19]<Aero-Tec> so why will not G95 work?
[20:28:08]<skunkworks> hmm - could you try that in mdi? 3 lines m3s300 ; g95 ; g1x1f.001 (make sure you can go to x1 without crashing)
[20:28:59]<Aero-Tec> ok
[20:29:01]<Aero-Tec> will do
[20:29:06]<mrsun> aparently my set screws are harder then hss endmills :/
[20:29:31]<Aero-Tec> is m3 before s?
[20:29:50]<Aero-Tec> I think I did S them M3
[20:30:27]<skunkworks> don't know if it matters - but I did the above.
[20:30:55]<skunkworks> (and your program works in sim lathe..)
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[20:38:47]<andypugh> PID with FF0 is the way to do spindle.
[20:39:45]<Aero-Tec> mid work
[20:39:51]<Aero-Tec> gcode does not
[20:39:59]<Aero-Tec> even moved m3
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[20:40:15]<Aero-Tec> so how on earth can that happen?
[20:40:23]<Connor> andypugh: Yea.. The example needs to be updated.. it's using something else..
[20:41:51]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: so - the mdi worked and ran the feed at about .28ipm?
[20:42:13]<Aero-Tec> it was slow slow
[20:42:16]<Aero-Tec> took forever
[20:42:29]<skunkworks> assuming the spindle was 282 rpm
[20:42:35]<Aero-Tec> did not time it
[20:43:05]<Aero-Tec> I could time it, but sure it was several minuets
[20:43:34]<Aero-Tec> also tried a z move to 0.006
[20:43:45]<skunkworks> 3.5 minuts.. but you could have looked at the feed rate - should have been about .28
[20:43:57]<Aero-Tec> it was much faster
[20:44:08]<skunkworks> ok - seems to be working.
[20:44:12]<Aero-Tec> yes
[20:44:20]<skunkworks> so the gcode you had above is what you are trying to run?
[20:44:30]<Aero-Tec> so why not gcode?
[20:44:57]<Aero-Tec> for the most part
[20:45:12]<Aero-Tec> had to move the code from chip to HD
[20:45:24]<Aero-Tec> as EMC would not let me see the USB
[20:46:06]<Aero-Tec> only change was moving M3 to the same line as S1000
[20:46:22]<Aero-Tec> I can get the code and upload it
[20:46:57]<skunkworks> could you do a m3s1000 from mdi - then run your program?
[20:47:00]<skunkworks> for grins
[20:47:18]<Aero-Tec> ok
[20:48:44]<mrsun> hmm, it says "carbide end mill hrc45" ... how can carbide have only hrc of 45 ? :)
[20:48:56]<mrsun> or what do they mean by it? :)
[20:49:25]<archivist> does it mean it cuts that hardness
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[20:50:34]<mrsun> but hrc45 isnt very hard :P
[20:50:51]<joe9> in linuxcnc configure, I get this message http://codepad.org/hY7Ejhym configure: WARNING: --enable-run-in-place will be removed soon.
[20:50:54]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: again - the program that you posted here - runs just perfect in sim lathe.. (asks for 3 tools)
[20:51:01]<mrsun> hrc63 they also have, that would be a bit more usefull =)
[20:51:01]<joe9> Configure without specifying --prefix to get a run-in-place build.
[20:51:11]<skunkworks> could you try the exact gcode that you posted?
[20:51:14]<andypugh> joe9: And?
[20:51:35]<joe9> andypugh, just felt that was interesting.
[20:51:53]<andypugh> I just use "make" which seems to automatically configure if it needs to
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[20:52:17]<andypugh> But run-in-place is the default now for compiled LinuxCNC
[20:52:20]<joe9> andypugh: hah, good to know. thanks.
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[20:55:07]<Aero-Tec> mid works
[20:55:12]<Aero-Tec> program not
[20:55:22]<skunkworks> setp scale.0.gain 60
[20:55:24]<skunkworks> oops
[20:55:31]<Aero-Tec> mid will not work after gcode run
[20:55:47]<Aero-Tec> untill you do a m3 s1000
[20:55:58]<Aero-Tec> then it will work again
[20:56:06]<Aero-Tec> will try the posted code
[20:56:18]<skunkworks> it seems like the program is not turning on the spindle... (or turning it off again)
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[21:01:00]<Aero-Tec> it was the same
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[21:01:51]<Aero-Tec> I ran the spindle spped in after the gcode run and it said 4.7 still
[21:01:58]<Aero-Tec> speed
[21:02:08]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: http://pastebin.com/FjDnRChx for future reference (if I did it right) adds a spindle-rpm-filtered pin that gives you rpm. If you look at the sim lathe example - you can add then a virtual panel to the left of linuxcnc that has spindle rpm. (you need the postgui.hal, xml and a few things setup in the ini.
[21:02:30]<skunkworks> can we see the gcode?
[21:03:12]<Aero-Tec> what Gcode are you looking for?
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[21:03:24]<Aero-Tec> you have the one
[21:03:28]<skunkworks> the gcode you are running that isn't working
[21:03:37]<Aero-Tec> I can send you the other version
[21:03:49]<Aero-Tec> they both do not work
[21:04:01]<Aero-Tec> but will send you the other version as well
[21:04:05]<skunkworks> hmm - that doesn't make sense.
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[21:06:58]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: yes - if the spindle is physically running - the pin will always show whatever the spindle is spinning at. But linuxcnc needs to know that the spindle is commanded (m03swhatever)
[21:07:20]<skunkworks> could you make a simple gcode program that is similar to the mdi code you are running?
[21:07:26]<skunkworks> just to be sure?
[21:08:59]<DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:10:59]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: will do
[21:11:13]<Aero-Tec> uploading the other version now
[21:12:08]<Aero-Tec>http://pastebin.com/2UKDken7[21:12:22]<Aero-Tec> will try out your new Hal as well
[21:17:43]<skunkworks> if you halmeter spindle-rpm-filtered pin using the new hal file - it should give you spindle speed in rpm
[21:23:30]<skunkworks> your second gcode program runs just fine in simlathe also...
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[21:28:40]<Aero-Tec> OK THE TEST VERSION WORKS
[21:28:46]<Aero-Tec> oops
[21:28:54]<Aero-Tec> code writing again
[21:29:24]<Aero-Tec> so why does the sim like the old code and the lathe does not?
[21:29:36]<Aero-Tec> can post the test code if you want
[21:29:47]<Aero-Tec> or could paste it here
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[21:29:51]<Aero-Tec> small
[21:30:07]<skunkworks> heh
[21:30:33]<Aero-Tec> G18 G20 G40 G49 G90 G94 G80
[21:30:35]<skunkworks> I don't know - someone like cradek or others will have look.
[21:30:35]<Aero-Tec> G20
[21:30:37]<Aero-Tec> G95
[21:30:38]<Aero-Tec> M3 S300
[21:30:42]<Aero-Tec> F0.006
[21:30:44]<Aero-Tec> G1 Z0.5
[21:30:45]<Aero-Tec> M2
[21:30:53]<Aero-Tec> that worked
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[21:31:59]<Aero-Tec> so I guess I have to track down the problem in the old code to see why it will not work
[21:32:13]<Aero-Tec> that a million for your help
[21:32:25]<Aero-Tec> looks like you run your own shop
[21:32:46]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: how do you find the time to run a shop and help so much here?
[21:33:24]<Aero-Tec> I was judging you owning a shop from the video you posted
[21:34:14]<Aero-Tec> most guy would not let someone else play with there machines
[21:34:17]<skunkworks> heh - no that is actually hobby...
[21:34:38]<skunkworks> (some people have boats)
[21:34:45]<Aero-Tec> that shop is a hobby shop?
[21:34:47]<Aero-Tec> wow
[21:34:50]<skunkworks> I am IT in my normal life...
[21:35:20]<Aero-Tec> well thanks again
[21:35:27]<Aero-Tec> looks like it is fixed
[21:35:53]<Aero-Tec> now to find out why the old code will not work
[21:35:54]<skunkworks> No problem - if I am around later - we could setup your RPM meter... but take a look at the simlathe configs
[21:36:15]<Aero-Tec> ok
[21:36:18]<skunkworks> You could pretty much use the info there just getting rid of the spindle at speed stuff.
[21:36:21]<Aero-Tec> sounds good
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[21:36:47]<skunkworks> (again - you need a postgui.hal file, xml file for the meter and some config in the ini file.
[21:37:22]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: we will need some video... ;)
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[21:38:26]<Aero-Tec> is there a link to some docs on how to set up the RPM meter
[21:38:35]<Aero-Tec> will do on the video
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[21:38:49]<Aero-Tec> not much to look at and a real mess
[21:38:56]<Aero-Tec> needs cleaning real bad
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[21:39:37]<skunkworks> heh
[21:39:42]<Aero-Tec> I clean what is needed but around that can get real messy
[21:40:22]<skunkworks> look at example 4 http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/hal/pyvcp.html[21:40:28]<skunkworks> pretty close to what you want...
[21:40:32]<Aero-Tec> guess doing a vid is as good a excuse as any for a grad clean up, poor lathe will die of shock
[21:40:38]<Aero-Tec> lol
[21:40:46]<skunkworks> (you just don't need the spindle at speed stuff)
[21:41:03]<skunkworks> heh
[21:41:43]<skunkworks> Aero-Tec: you should be able to do css now too - I know you couldn't with mach..
[21:43:23]<Aero-Tec> I need to change the motor to 3 phase and then add a VSD
[21:43:30]<Aero-Tec> or VFD
[21:43:41]<Aero-Tec> depending on what you like to call it
[21:43:45]<skunkworks> heh
[21:43:54]<skunkworks> so - no speed control other than pullys atm?
[21:44:04]<Aero-Tec> single phase to 3 phase
[21:44:13]<Aero-Tec> right
[21:44:24]<skunkworks> they are nice...
[21:44:38]<skunkworks> bbl
[21:44:42]<Aero-Tec> will add a 3 HP motor when I do the change over
[21:45:37]<Aero-Tec> and change the belts to timing belts so no slipage
[21:46:31]<JT-Shop> Aero-Tec: did you know that the AutomationDirect VS2 drive will run up to a 3hp 3phase motor from single phase and LinuxCNC has a driver for it to control the drive
[21:46:55]<JT-Shop> via modbus
[21:47:06]<JT-Shop> sorry GS2
[21:47:40]<JT-Shop>http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/drivers/GS2.html[21:47:52]<Tom_itx> JT-Shop, common on the gecko driver goes to gnd or frame gnd?
[21:48:03]<Tom_itx> or both
[21:48:28]<JT-Shop> for the DC power?
[21:48:37]<Tom_itx> step dir common
[21:49:25]<Tom_itx> i'm gonna tie it to signal gnd
[21:49:36]<JT-Shop> I think I grounded mine at the power supply
[21:49:42]<JT-Shop> the 0v line
[21:50:06]<Tom_itx> it's all gnd just may be quieter in places
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[21:58:43]<Aero-Tec> JT-Shop: I was looking at that, that was the one I planed on getting if it would work with EMC
[21:59:12]<Aero-Tec> thanks for the info, now I know it will work
[21:59:15]<JT-Shop> I use one on my BP knee mill and LinuxCNC controls the spindle
[21:59:37]<JT-Shop> nice fast reversal if you also get the braking resistor
[21:59:44]<Aero-Tec> want to upgrade my mill to one as well
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[22:22:10]<skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: did you try the new hal file?
[22:22:40]<Aero-Tec> I have it working
[22:22:49]<Aero-Tec> but have not checked it out yet
[22:23:06]<Aero-Tec> will do that now
[22:23:41]<Aero-Tec> was looking into the gcode problem
[22:24:14]<skunkworks__> that doesn't sound like any fun ;)
[22:32:00]<alex4nder-> hey
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[22:33:27]<skunkworks__> ho
[22:36:58]<JT-Shop> who you calling a ho?
[22:37:21]<jymmm> JT-Shop: Your tractor Biotch!
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[22:54:43]<Aero-Tec> skunkworks: your new hal works good
[22:54:49]<Aero-Tec> read the rpm
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[22:57:56]<skunkworks__> great - do you want to try to setup an rpm panel?
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[23:05:59]<skunkworks__> (i guess you cannot do css until you can control the spindle...)
[23:08:48]<Aero-Tec> yes would like to set it up
[23:09:47]<skunkworks__> so if you look at section 4 http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/hal/pyvcp.html[23:09:55]<skunkworks__> you need to create 2 files.
[23:10:23]<skunkworks__> an xml file and a hal file
[23:11:00]<JT-Shop> skunkworks: yep you need spindle speed control for CSS
[23:11:18]<skunkworks__> JT-Shop: I was not really thinking about it
[23:11:57]<JT-Shop> me neither
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[23:12:43]<skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: create a file spindle.xml in your config directory and copy/paste the xml into it from the manual.
[23:13:08]<Aero-Tec> will do
[23:13:14]<skunkworks__> then create a spindle_to_pyvcp.hal file with net spindle-rpm-filtered => pyvcp.spindle-speed in it.
[23:13:27]<skunkworks__> (like the example)
[23:14:13]<skunkworks__> then open your ini file and add PYVCP = spindle.xml in your [display] section
[23:15:00]<skunkworks__> and add POSTGUI_HALFILE = spindle_to_pyvcp.hal to your [hal] section. (I am reading this from the example - so you could just follow that)
[23:16:00]<skunkworks__> remember linux is case sensitive
[23:17:29]<tjb1> Good evening all
[23:20:02]<JT-Shop> yes it is
[23:20:49]<skunkworks__> JT-Shop: how are you physically comunicating to the vfd? serial?
[23:21:17]<JT-Shop> the GS2?
[23:21:20]<skunkworks__> yes
[23:21:26]<JT-Shop> modbus
[23:21:36]<JT-Shop> and the GS2 component
[23:21:51]<JT-Shop> so yes the serial port
[23:21:56]<skunkworks__> ah - ok
[23:23:59]<tjb1> Finally started working today, 1 step closer to the plasma table :)
[23:25:29]<jdhNC> .5" end mills make a lot more chips than .125's
[23:26:40]<Tom_itx> 6" shell mills throw them further
[23:27:06]<jdhNC> I bet
[23:27:24]<jdhNC> so this 2500rpm spindle is pretty limiting for aluminum?
[23:27:25]<JT-Shop> I was told the chips from a face mill should look like a rooster tail coming off the part if your speeds and feed is correct
[23:27:57]<JT-Shop> not really, you just have to adjust your IPM to get the correct chip load
[23:28:08]<Tom_itx> JT-Shop i watched one on a Mori cutting ~1/4" pass dry; tossing chips off white hot
[23:28:20]<Tom_itx> steel
[23:28:41]<Tom_itx> i didn't bother inspecting their shape
[23:28:51]<JT-Shop> I've cut hardend steel and the chips were hot but the part stayed at room temp with no coolant at all
[23:28:59]<Tom_itx> yep
[23:29:55]<Tom_itx> you knew it was working too
[23:30:01]<jdhNC> this part looks beautiful (relatively) except were it broke out
[23:30:03]<JT-Shop> aye
[23:30:06]<tjb1> Anyone know the amperage coming out of the voltage divider on the CPC of a hypertherm?
[23:30:25]<JT-Shop> it's a voltage signal
[23:30:37]<tjb1> So no amps at all?
[23:30:43]<JT-Shop> not really
[23:30:46]<Tom_itx> minimal
[23:30:54]<Tom_itx> it's a signal voltage
[23:31:03]<JT-Shop> milli amp
[23:31:14]<tjb1> Cool, less work for me
[23:31:31]<tjb1> Thanks
[23:35:43]<skunkworks__>http://youtu.be/1a0YpKfSGE8[23:37:33]<andypugh> skunkworks: Can't you manage a real depth of cut?
[23:37:50]<JT-Shop> are they std inserts for steel?
[23:41:09]<roycroft> when i was your age we used to gnaw hardened steel off with our bare teeth
[23:41:17]<roycroft> we didn't need any fancey inserts
[23:41:37]<jdhNC> you can get carbide or ceramic dentures now
[23:41:49]<djdelorie> ha! When I was a kid, we didn't even have metal. Had to gnaw on rocks and dirt.
[23:41:52]<skunkworks__> andypugh: sure! (I like to take my time..)
[23:42:27]<Aero-Tec> got the meter to show up
[23:42:29]<andypugh> I always thought that SiC teeth might be handy
[23:42:31]<Aero-Tec> but no reading
[23:42:42]<skunkworks__> the spindle is running?
[23:42:58]<Loetmichel> djdelorie: that proved to be a bit much for a TC mill bit lately
[23:42:59]<jdhNC> the tormach face milling video is pretty cool.
[23:43:08]<roycroft> we used to dream about having rocks and dirt to gnaw on
[23:43:12]<Loetmichel> had to mill slate....
[23:43:27]<andypugh> Ah, no, wait, I had a whiter ceramic in mind.
[23:43:42]<Loetmichel> result: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13206 (left before, right after milling a pocket in a slate block)
[23:44:07]<Loetmichel> the slate had obviously some quartz in it
[23:44:33]<djdelorie> need a diamond bit for those, otherwise you're not milling the slate, you're grinding the tool ;-)
[23:44:50]<Loetmichel> djdelorie: slate is OK with TC
[23:45:00]<Loetmichel> but quartz obviousliy isnt ;-)
[23:45:18]<skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: with the spindle running - there is no output?
[23:45:37]<Aero-Tec> yes
[23:45:46]<Aero-Tec> the hal meter still read right
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[23:46:00]<andypugh> Ah, yes, YSZ would make good teeth, and is actually used for that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yttria-stabilized_zirconia[23:46:12]<Aero-Tec> so no connection with meter
[23:46:41]<Aero-Tec> was looking at the files and the instruction to find out why
[23:47:37]<skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: can you post your ini file? and your post whatever hal file?
[23:47:46]<skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: are you at your machine?
[23:48:49]<Aero-Tec> not at the lathe
[23:48:56]<Aero-Tec> but I have the files
[23:49:10]<Aero-Tec> was I to make a change to the hal file?
[23:49:19]<Aero-Tec> I did not change it
[23:49:22]<skunkworks__> I don't think so.
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[23:49:57]<skunkworks__> There is already the spindle-rpm-filtered pin in it
[23:50:59]<Aero-Tec>http://pastebin.com/jp9Jt7Ut[23:51:03]<Aero-Tec> ini file
[23:51:12]<skunkworks__> lets see your ini and spindle_to_pyvcp.hal
[23:51:14]<skunkworks__> ah
[23:51:53]<Aero-Tec>http://pastebin.com/EVhcRuWe[23:51:58]<Aero-Tec> xml file
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[23:52:18]<Aero-Tec> net spindle-rpm-filtered => pyvcp.spindle-speed
[23:52:23]<Aero-Tec> the new hal file
[23:52:33]<skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: is there anything in your custom_postgui.hal file?
[23:52:41]<Aero-Tec> no
[23:52:54]<Aero-Tec> not that I put in there
[23:52:58]<Aero-Tec> I can look
[23:53:44]<skunkworks__> then put a # in front of the line POSTGUI_HALFILE = custom_postgui.hal
[23:54:02]<Aero-Tec> ok
[23:54:10]<skunkworks__> Double check - I don't think you can have 2 postgui_halfiles called out.
[23:54:31]<skunkworks__> so it is probably only running the first one.
[23:57:10]<Aero-Tec> there is 2?
[23:57:38]<skunkworks__> [HAL]
[23:57:40]<skunkworks__> HALFILE = old-lathe.hal
[23:57:42]<skunkworks__> HALFILE = custom.hal
[23:57:43]<skunkworks__> POSTGUI_HALFILE = custom_postgui.hal
[23:57:45]<skunkworks__> POSTGUI_HALFILE = spindle_to_pyvcp.hal
[23:58:01]<Aero-Tec> ok
[23:58:09]<Aero-Tec> now I follow
[23:58:14]<Aero-Tec> will retry
[23:58:39] -!- micges has quit [Quit: Leaving]