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Guest Dump-N-Thump

I wanted to try and pick the underdogs, the guys who'd be overlooked a tad, By no means do i think they'll have overly amazing years, but they'll have good years for "them".

Zach Stortini - An enforcer who can play hockey, thats exactly what Stortini is. I wouldn't be surprised if he can muster 25 points this year.

Dustin Byugflein(SP?) - He has the size and the skill to be a threat, and i think Chicago is giving him every opportunity to be a great forward, I'd expect good things from this kid.

Nikolai Antropov - Yup, Someone on the maples team is going to shine and its going to be Nikolai, I think he has what it takes to take the next step in his hockey career. I like his size and his skill, Now he just has to use it to his advantage.

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Milan Lucic, mark my words this kid was just coming into his own as the playoffs hit, he may struggle the first couple of weeks, but if he plays with Savard this kid could legitimately have 30g 50+ pts and about 10 fights!

If he plays with Kessel he could get 20g 40 pts and about 15 fights (Kessel will get rocked around and Lucic will have his back).

Next year will be his career year, the year he really makes people say WOW!!! He just turned 20, I expect big things from this kid, eventually he will be the premier power forward in the league!

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Filppula will not even sniff 70+ points. Babcock seems to be finally realizing this.

I tend to agree. Filppula put up just over half that amount (36 Points) last season and to think he's all of a sudden going to near-double his production is a little far-fetched unless his line improves. Playing alongside Cleary and Sammy and getting 3rd line minutes isn't going to help increase his chances of reaching that plateau. If he was playing with any of our Big 3 his chances become mediocre.

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Filppula will not even sniff 70+ points. Babcock seems to be finally realizing this.

Yeah.

70 points is way too much for any forward on our team except for Z, Pav and Hossa (obviously). Seriously, only 38 forwards reached 70 points in 07/08 season. Filppula, Hudler, Cleary, Mule etc are not 70+ points players any time soon.

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70 points is way too much for any forward on our team except for Z, Pav and Hossa (obviously). Seriously, only 38 forwards reached 70 points in 07/08 season. Filppula, Hudler, Cleary, Mule etc are not 70+ points players any time soon.

In terms of points per minute, Hudler was our third most productive forward last season. And that was playing with a bunch of grinders. Now he'll be playing with Zetterberg. Nine Wings forwards played over 1000 minutes last season. The same nine were the only Wings forwards to score better than 12 points. Of those nine...Hudler is the only one to play less than 15 minutes per game. Yet only Dats and Z, two of the five best forwards in the game, outperformed him offensively. 70 points may not happen, but to suggest it's out of reach for Hudler is ludicrous given that he should be getting a bump of 3-4 minutes per night and will be playing with an elite center. 25-30 goals and 65-75 points doesn't seem far fetched.

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In terms of points per minute, Hudler was our third most productive forward last season. And that was playing with a bunch of grinders. Now he'll be playing with Zetterberg. Nine Wings forwards played over 1000 minutes last season. The same nine were the only Wings forwards to score better than 12 points. Of those nine...Hudler is the only one to play less than 15 minutes per game. Yet only Dats and Z, two of the five best forwards in the game, outperformed him offensively. 70 points may not happen, but to suggest it's out of reach for Hudler is ludicrous given that he should be getting a bump of 3-4 minutes per night and will be playing with an elite center. 25-30 goals and 65-75 points doesn't seem far fetched.

Thats right, but Hudler is kinda Babcock's little *****. I doubt he will play 2nd line minutes for the entire season. I would not be surprised if he plays on 4th line with Drapes and Maltby for most of the season. He seems to be more efficent on 4th line than he is on 2nd line.

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Which players do you see either coming out of nowhere or simply having the best seasons of their career?

Some I can see...

Valteri Filppula - Even with Hossa in the lineup, he'll probably be the center of his line racking up a potential 70+ points.

I agree with everyone else on your assessment of Filppula. Not only is he booked for the 3rd line, but Babcock is probably becoming more realistic about Flips offensive development (if he thought Filppula had it in him, he'd likely have put him on the 2nd line). Not only will Flip not be seeing enough minutes to pot 70+ points with his mediocre offensive instincts, he'll be featured in shutdown and defense-primary roles. Especially when you take into consideration the fact that Filppula was an afterthought as a PP center last season, getting spotty 7/8 time as a PP forward, but now hes only bumped further down the chart with Hudler and Franzen running with their PP time, and Hossa being added to the list. Whereas guys like Franzen and Hudler will have their even strength time supplemented with PP time. Filppula will likely have his supplemented with PK time.

If anything, its much more likely that we'll see Hudler closer to 70+ points than Flip. And please note I said closer. I'd expect guys like Hudler and Franzen to fall into the 50-60 point category.

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Hudler will have a breakout season if he can overcome his size and Babs shafting his minutes.

Mule will if he keeps his scoring touch. I think it has a lot to do with confidence.

Cleary, same as mule.

Hudler having to overcome his size has always been somewhat overblown. If he can score 40+ points as a midget, to suggest his size is/was holding him back is to suggest that his talent alone should net him 50-60+ points, and thats still with depreciated ice time from that which is typical for a potential 2nd line forward.

That is to say, if you gave Hudler the ice time of an average 5-7 foward, he would score around 48-54 points. And if you were to suggest that his size was holding him back on top of that, then you're saying as a 23 year old he could've likely net around 60-65 points. Consider that type of production as a 23 year old is Datsyuk and Zetterberg-esque territory, I'd venture a guess that the only thing holding back Hudler from his would-be production is his ice time, as something along the lines of 48-54 points seems entirely plausible for a guy of Hudlers talent and stage of career.

..and I hope you get what I'm saying, cause Im not sure that was really clear..

Edited September 4, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

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Thats right, but Hudler is kinda Babcock's little *****. I doubt he will play 2nd line minutes for the entire season. I would not be surprised if he plays on 4th line with Drapes and Maltby for most of the season. He seems to be more efficent on 4th line than he is on 2nd line.

IMO, Hudlers placement on this team has a lot more to do with our lack of a legitimate 2nd line. Hudler isnt going to excel when hes being centered by Filppula on the 2nd line with Cleary or Samuelsson as his counter winger, or even Franzen centering him with one of the other guys mentioned as his counter-winger.

IMO, the reason why Hudler excels on the 4th line is because hes able to take charge of the 4th line and can dictate the offensive play more easily. Despite not centering the line, Hudler was allowed to sort of take charge of the line. Something thats hard to do as a winger on a regular top 6 line where your center is typically the focal point and distributor, but easy to do when you're playing with a rookie (Helm). On the 2nd line, Hudler has to play to both Franzen and Filppulas dictations, neither of which are conducive to Hudlers style of play. Filppulas primary focus is still defense, and his offensive instincts aren't developed enough for a guy like Hudler who knows where to go to receive the pass or to take the shot. If you're center isn't aware of knowing where you're going to go, due to his lack of offensive foresight, you're offensive instincts are going to go by the wayside. This is similar in a way to Franzen, who likewise doesn't have as developed offensive instincts as Hudler, and takes more of a simplistic approach to offense, or relies on his own body/strength to get the offensive done.

Neither of these styles of play are conducive to Hudler's game, which is centered around his offensive instincts. Unfortunately offensive instincts aren't always standouts, as dazzling moves, blazing speed, and bulldozer strength are what gets noticed, but plenty of players have made careers out of their offensive instincts. Robert Lang and Brett Hull are two that come to mind. And although some of you will scream your heads off about Brett Hulls shot being his bread and butter, he wouldn't have scored 700 goals if he didnt see the ice as well as he did and know where to go to take the shot.

Now, Im not saying Hudler is the next Brett Hull - far from it. But what I am saying is you can do a lot if you have good offensive instincts. Its because of that that Hudler would likely be a good fit for a guy like Hank. He'll know where to go to receive the pass, or to be able to take a high-percentage shot, and Hank will know where he is (and be able to) get the puck to him. And of course, all the while Franzen is creating traffic.

Therefore its both apples to oranges and a blanket statement to say "Hudler doesn't do well on the 2nd line" when he'll now be centered by an elite talent as opposed to a defense-first youngster.

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Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

Which players do you see either coming out of nowhere or simply having the best seasons of their career?

Some I can see...

Valteri Filppula - Even with Hossa in the lineup, he'll probably be the center of his line racking up a potential 70+ points.

Nathan Horton - Jokinen gone, he's the man now. He probably won't do as good as Jokinen, but he'll finally start to live up to his potential.

Sam Gagner - One of the top rookies last season, I think this season he'll be one of the big guys in Edmonton.

David Perron - See Sam Gagner.

Rick Nash - 50 goals, 90+ points? Very very possible.

Patrick O'Sullivan - 3rd season, and starting to get a good grip of things. Very solid season expected.

Johan Franzen - He had a huge breakout period... I could see a breakout season. If he could be a beast in a playoff environment, then why can't he do it on a full season schedule?

There's probably more, my mind will be refreshed as this thread progresses.

Im gonna stay off Vals case, but I do agree with everyone that Hudler will have 55-70 points with Filpulla going 45-55, however to say Horton hasent lived up to his potential is just dumb. The Kid is allready an elite power forward.

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Zach Stortini - An enforcer who can play hockey, thats exactly what Stortini is. I wouldn't be surprised if he can muster 25 points this year.

Dustin Byugflein(SP?) - He has the size and the skill to be a threat, and i think Chicago is giving him every opportunity to be a great forward, I'd expect good things from this kid.

Nikolai Antropov - Yup, Someone on the maples team is going to shine and its going to be Nikolai, I think he has what it takes to take the next step in his hockey career. I like his size and his skill, Now he just has to use it to his advantage.

Tina is a hockey player who can't enforce.

As far as Antropov goes, he's already had his breakout season. That was as good as it gets for him.

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Fedorov...full season with AO and semin i think he puts up at least 85

Firstly, Fedorov is formerly the best player in the world. He broke out 15 odd years ago.

Second, he will probably be their third line center. Maybe he'll center Semin and Kozlov but I doubt it if Nylander and Backstrom are healthy.

Third, Ovechkin is the first line LW.

Fourth, Semin is the second LW.

Fedorov will never score the points he used to again. The Caps don't need that with Nylander, Ovechkin, Backstrom, Semin, Kozlov and Clark. He's their top defensive forward and that's how they'll use him.

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Hudler having to overcome his size has always been somewhat overblown. If he can score 40+ points as a midget, to suggest his size is/was holding him back is to suggest that his talent alone should net him 50-60+ points, and thats still with depreciated ice time from that which is typical for a potential 2nd line forward.

That is to say, if you gave Hudler the ice time of an average 5-7 foward, he would score around 48-54 points. And if you were to suggest that his size was holding him back on top of that, then you're saying as a 23 year old he could've likely net around 60-65 points. Consider that type of production as a 23 year old is Datsyuk and Zetterberg-esque territory, I'd venture a guess that the only thing holding back Hudler from his would-be production is his ice time, as something along the lines of 48-54 points seems entirely plausible for a guy of Hudlers talent and stage of career.

..and I hope you get what I'm saying, cause Im not sure that was really clear..

Let's take a quick look at the totals each player posted in the season they were/turned 23, and the season they were/turned 24, as this covers the last two seasons Hudler has played:

Age 23

Datsyuk: 11g-24a-35pt, +4, 13:38

Zetterberg: 15g-28a-43pt, +15, 18:14

D/Z Average: 13g-26a-39pt, +10, 15:56

Hudler: 15g-10a-25pt, +16, 10:02

Age 24

Datsyuk: 12g-39a-51pt, +20, 15:27

Zetterberg: Did not play; 2004-05 Lockout

D/Z Average: 12g-39a-51pt, +20, 15:27

Hudler: 13g-29a-42pt, +11, 13:10

Now, let's project Hudler's offense in each season over the average time per game played by the other two.

Age 23

Hudler: 23g-15a-42pt, +24

D/Z Average: 13g-26a-39pt, +10, 15:56

Age 24

Hudler: 15g-34a-49pt, +13

D/Z Average: 12g-39a-51pt, +20, 15:27

It's interesting because at this point in their respective careers, Hudler is considered to be significantly better defensively than Datsyuk was, and has already proven he is capable of performing in the postseason; while the "postseason choker" tag haunted Datsyuk until recently. It's entirely possible that Hudler could end up as a better overall player than Datsyuk.

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