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Impy w.a.s.?

Is it true a impy can get 35bps with the WAS? Or does it lose velocity doing this?

Modulate me
Its oh so typical
Excite me

Don't focus on the obvious so much that you miss out on the little things...cuz those little things do matter. Wanna run fast? Hey, more power to you...but don't forget to be quick. Wanna shoot fast? Hey, great...but don't forget to be accurate. Wanna react fast? Super...then don't argue with yourself. In the meantime, have fun, play Paintball, and rock on!

This should be obvious, but it strikes me that not everyone understands the distinction.

The controller may well be able to process 66.6 complete sets of instructions per second, but that's slower than an oak tree in a footrace compared to the three billion calculations per second a decent desktop PC can process.

Curt from KM2 once wrote an interesting post over in the Guild a year or two back, in response to someone asking if the "Morlock" board was limited by the onboard chip's clock speed. Curt crunched a number or two and stated that the clock speed wouldn't be a limitation until approximately 5,000 shots per second.

He then said if for some reason that was a limitation, he'd just use such-and-such a chip with a clock five times faster, for a theoretical 25,000 shot-per-second limit.

Clearly processor/controller speed is not an issue here.

Naturally, this only assumes how fast the board can process instructions, not limitations on realworld factors like dwell times. And therein lies the rub: The software MUST wait for the hardware to cycle.

No software can make the ram or hammer accellerate faster, or make the solenoid switch quicker or make air flow through the solenoid faster.

Just taking out Chip A and putting in Captain Whizzo's X-Treem Chip-B Delux will NOT suddenly allow the gun to perfectly and reliably fire 20 to 30 shots per second.

The gun's overall max ROF depends on the slowest of all factors: rate that paint can feed, rate that the bolt/hammer/ram can cycle, rate the solenoid can cycle, rate the shooter can pull the trigger, how fast the reg can supply air, ad nauseum.

Controller clock speed is by far the fastest of all these, no matter who makes the board, and thus is the least relevant when truly upgrading the gun.

army how do you figure? the was boards check the trigger 1 million times a second thus the board will fire the solenoid, I dont get why you call it hype? I have seen on a 02 timmie's screen 22 bps so yes they shoot 20+ bps

I don't know..I work on computer hardware for a living..and all this stuff does not make any rational sense to me..So...a Timmy can dry fire (yes.. I said dry fire) at 20bps..who cares? Considering nothing can really keep up the feedrate at the speed and no reg or tank has ever been tested at that high of speed how do we know if the gun really was firing that fast with paint that it wasn't getting tremendous shoot down..and I really don't care what Jim Drew says..degree or no...computer company or no..he's shown time and time again that all he does is puke more FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) on the masses than any company ever in the history of paintball.

Ignorance? Hardly. Jim Drew has yet to PROVE any of his theories about paintball, with any degree of scientific reasoning. Heck, even a decent video would suffice for most of us, but he can't even do that.

As Doc Nickle pointed out, it doesn't matter that the board can do 20, or even a million bps, it's irrelevent if the MECHANICAL aspect of the gun can't use it.

When a Spyder freezes up and goes "PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPT", that's about 30 SHOTS per second. Are you going to argue that Spyders are capapble of 30bps because it can cycle that fast? Seen anyone with an actual WAS board in their Impy? I didn't think so.

It is all hype until it can be PROVED, something WAS and Jim Drew have never done.

the was boards check the trigger 1 million times a second thus the board will fire the solenoid, I dont get why you call it hype?

Besides the fact this sentence is largely nonsensical, the fact that a board or controller 'checks' the trigger X number of times a second, is wholly irrelevant and advertised purely as hype.

Why on Earth does it matter if the board will check for or accept trigger input at any greater frequency than, say, a small safety margin over the gun's max ROF? If the controller is currently executing its instructions- IE, it's firing the gun- then additional trigger inputs or instructions spent looking for trigger inputs are completely, totally wasted.

If the board IS accepting/using additional trigger inputs, then we're into the grey area of "recording" trigger pulls or allowing the board to utilize "switch noise" to create an illegal fire mode (more than one shot per trigger pull.)

I have seen on a 02 timmie's screen 22 bps so yes they shoot 20+ bps

Nope, sorry. All the "screen" or LCD display tells you is how many times the controller executed it's set of firing instructions. If the instructions take 20 milliseconds to cycle (allowing for solenoid cycle time, time for the ram to complete it's travel, etc) then the display would show 50 bps.

It's easy: Set the controller for full-auto, crank down the dwell and raise the ROF pots (or whatever your particular board has) and pull the trigger. You don't even need air, let alone actually trying to fire paint.

Then you'll have a cool little max-ROF readout to show off to your friends out in the parking lot. Make 'em think you're a stud.

Just keep in mind it has absolutely nothing- not a bloody thing- to do with the gun's actual or theoretical maximum ROF. It's just an interesting little electronic score at best.

It doesn't matter that the board can do 20, or even a million bps, it's irrelevent if the MECHANICAL aspect of the gun can't use it.

Precisely.

If the controller can cycle 30 times a second, the solenoid can cycle 20 times a second, the ram can complete it's travel 18 times a second, the regulator can supply air to 16 shots per second, and the loader can feed 13 balls per second...

... Then the guns' maximum, effective, real-world rate of fire is 13 BPS.

Throw a Halo on it that can do 20 balls per second? Okay, now the gun's maximum ROF is 16/sec, the fastest the reg can supply air. Beef up the air supply so it's good to 25 bps, and now the gun's limitation is the ram cycle speed.

Make sense? The gun is only as usably fast as it's slowest function.

the impulse solenoid can fire at 40 bps thus the gun cna function at that

Sorry, that's still wrong. Impulses and Shockers use Parker/Skinner air-piloted solenoids, and can really only reliably cycle up to the high teens, as I recall. And even still, keep in mind that even if the solenoid can cycle thus, the ram and hammer/bolt still have to start moving and complete their cycle after the solenoid activates.

Again, just because the electronics can cycle at X speed, does NOT mean the gun can therefore cycle at X speed.

im going to go ahead and say vision sucks..and if WAS is what it is made out to be (senses all colored paint) than it will be worth it.

The only time shell color comes into play is with "reflective" ACE eyes. Like the factory Impy Vision, and I think the BKO, the older Sandridges. Two-element eyes, like used in the Intimidators, the Gabriel Visions, RaceGuns and so on, are immune to shell color problems- Manike even successfully tried a Gladiator Vision install with Kaye's clear/water-filled Perfect Circle balls.

no sorry doc, you dont have to put it on full auto to see thoes kind of results, ever heard of debounce? I thought not. Put a timmy with a WAS board on 1ms debounce and fire, if you cant hit 20+ BPS then your slow, and yes I have shot over a chrono and have gotten said BPS.

Originally posted by Xen no sorry doc, you dont have to put it on full auto to see thoes kind of results, ever heard of debounce? I thought not. Put a timmy with a WAS board on 1ms debounce and fire, if you cant hit 20+ BPS then your slow, and yes I have shot over a chrono and have gotten said BPS.

check out that video, thats using a reprogramed cricket board so that you have 1-25 ROF control, and Full auto among other things, hmmm strange hmmm 20 bps?

and you said the guns mechanical max ROF is 16? Wow so this isnt an impulse, this is a matrix with an pseudo adrenalin body? I think not. Get your facts together and come back, sorry.

1st: Do you know who doc nickle is? Before spouting off on his ignorance maybe you should figure that out.

2nd: Do YOU know what "debounce" is? Sounds like you don't have a clue....I'll give you a hint.....doc called it by another name....give up? Switch noise.

3rd: I suggest you go back and take some reading comprehension courses before the SAT's. Unless I'm misreading something it looks like you mistook a general example on the topic of limiting factors as hard data being presented on the impulse.

4th: I don't know who raised you, but I contend you somehow missed all the lessons on common courtesy and being polite. I suggest you go back and learn these concepts as they'll help you later in life not to come off as such a completely worthless mass of carbon matter that's using up oxygen the rest of us could use.

Originally posted by ShooterJM I suggest you go back and learn these concepts as they'll help you later in life not to come off as such a completely worthless mass of carbon matter that's using up oxygen the rest of us could use.

Originally posted by Xen and you said the guns mechanical max ROF is 16? Wow so this isnt an impulse, this is a matrix with an pseudo adrenalin body? I think not. Get your facts together and come back, sorry.

Uhm, maybe I missed the point where Doc said that the limit was 16 bps, he did mention 16 bps in an analogy.

Kinda like I can get my car speedometer to say 170 if I jack the front tires up into the air and don't have to deal with drag and weight of the car. Doesn't actually mean anything cause I ain't going that fast now am I. My 0-60 times would be great if I didn't have to put the wheels on the ground to get there.

C'mon people - we have videos of Intimidators shooting 20+ bps on our website (and have for many months).

What the display shows as the max rate of fire is the actual number of balls expelled from the barrel... not some made up number. Why can not people handle the fact that we just make some very fast stuff?

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz Why can not people handle the fact that we just make some very fast stuff?

Maybe because they don't believe anyone on blind faith? Now, I have never attempted to view any video to determine the speeds attainable (it doesn't matter to me), but what's so hard about making one? It's the "proof" that people here will believe. I'm going to make one for the hyperframe, and I'm sure you must have more resources that I do. Why not just provide the "proof"?

W.A.S.- We don't take things at face value here on AO. HARD DATA is our friend and you know that already. Your already sketchy "proof" as you call it isn't what we ask for. We ask for specific items and you dodge the question or say "I've already proven it. And then you say "Why don't people believe me?"