i'm no Wayne Barnes apologist, but I think he was right on both accounts. For the first, as NLB says he had to listen to the touch judge because he didn't see it (I think the touch judge got it wrong given how far off the ball it was). For the second, I fairly certain it was in line with the IRB guidelines - whether these are too harsh is a matter for debate.

Re 2nd tip tackle, Ireland should never of let Wales get in kickable range so quickly following the kick off after the try. Once Ireland let Wales get in range and 3 pts would secure the game they needed to be squeaky clean, picking up a player even just by a single leg was a risk they should not have taken. Ireland can only blame themselves for loosing that one. If it was a yellow card or not, matters not at it made no difference at the end.

I didn't hear the commentary, but the pundits are saying that the first one was described well enough by the AR and WB went back to him for a recommendation. Second one was perhaps more forgivable - but Robshaw made a very similar tackle yesterday, with the player coming down face down and able to put his arms out, and Clancy waved play on.

He was direct and assured throughout, gave out advice as play progressed, and made decisions as he saw them. Both sides seemed to listen and take notice.

Those criticising Barnes for the outcome of the first spear tackle incident are plain wrong.

He stated he hadn't seen the incident, so asked Pearson for his version, and recommendation. He had no choice but to act on the recommendation ... unless someone's suggesting that he should have replied to Pearson: "No, hang on, are you saying that it was a spear tackle Dave? ... If so, under the IRB referees' directive, I now have to issue an automatic red". IMHO he did the right thing and gave the recommended yellow - the citing officer could get involved later if he saw fit.

In my view, the main - practical - issue on the second (Ferris) incident was whether or not it warranted the award of a penalty. There was a consensus in the BBC studio after the game that it did.

At that stage of the game - three minutes to go? - whether it also merited Ferris getting a yellow, a red, or even nothing, was effectively irrelevant. That said, at least Barnes was being consistent in giving the yellow.

Lastly, hats off to Ireland captain Paul O'Connell for what he said in his post-match interview. No criticism of the referee - direct or otherwise - over the Ferris penalty andf its effect upon the result. He effectively admitted that Ireland had ample opportunities to close out the match ... but made some mistakes, and couldn't manage it.

saracens4lifeRegardless of the spear-tackle incidents - which have sadly overshadowed the rest of a very good match - Barnes' management of the breakdown was farcical.
Thankfully Wales managed to manufacture some outstanding back play in spite of the almost-constant infringements from the Irish (Best, POC and DOC main culprits) to try and slow their ball down.

I agree he was letting a lot of stuff go, but Wales were infringing just as much as the Irish. Tackled players were constantly allowed to seal the ball off, and defenders were constantly allowed to go off their feet, and both sides did just that. But you have to say it was still a great game with plenty of running rugby and 5 tries. Maybe that was because they are two very good teams, and that refereeing would have otherwise produced a bore-fest? Or maybe the cheating resulted in more players being in the ruck and so more space?

WB has openly stated that he will only penalise if something "affects the game". Which is what (he believes) he did, because in the second half he pinged offences that he had ignored in the first. Presumably he judged that the ball had been slowed "too much", or a turnover had genuinely been prevented. I have no idea how he determines this though, especially when the ball becomes "too slow". I wonder if the players know?

pinkernel
Lastly, hats off to Ireland captain Paul O'Connell for what he said in his post-match interview. No criticism of the referee - direct or otherwise - over the Ferris penalty andf its effect upon the result.

I completely agree, and I thought that Sonja Mclaughlan went beyond her usual incompetence and was a total disgrace. She was desperate to get someone to complain about the yellow card decisions. All the Irish no commented it, and just gave their verdict of their own performance. Not satisfied with this show of good sportsmanship Mclaughlan actually then lied to one of the Welsh (can't remember whether it was a player or Gatland) that Paul O'Connell had brought it up.

Yes, I don't want to revisit the "silence for the kicker" thread, but at the club level the Irish are practically religious (can you say that?) about the silence for the kicker thing. Do they change at an International level or is it a totally different set of people who go? Presumably ones that don't follow Munster or such at all.

DOKYes, I don't want to revisit the "silence for the kicker" thread, but at the club level the Irish are practically religious (can you say that?) about the silence for the kicker thing. Do they change at an International level or is it a totally different set of people who go? Presumably ones that don't follow Munster or such at all.

I would guess, some regular rugby followers, some others. Just like Twickenham, which has the same problem.

Sorry RR, but disagree. I'm not doubting your observations, but based on a number of matches I've watched at Thomond Park (on TV - never been there), Munster do respect the kicker even when it's the opposition. Agreed it maybe they do this more when they're winning, but it happens. It's no myth.

When we beat munster at thomond they were certainly booing the decisions a lot but not sure if they then stopped for the actual kicks. I think it's fair enough to boo the decision but then shut up for the kick, so if that's what they were doing then fair enough. can't say I cam actually remember now. they're certainly normally much quieter than the stoop, especially the brats in the south stand

Jammy GitI doubt there's a fan in the ground who doesn't realise the silence heaps pressure on the opposing kicker

That's why I suggested it might be the Welsh fans.

Strange how this idea comes up over and over when again when it's obviously such rubbish. No supporter has ever made noise to "help" their kicker, and in the remote chance that anyone ever does, they would presumably cheer or clap - not boo.

Southern Hemisphere crowds believe that heckling the kicker is acceptable. The kickers just get on with it. The only reason that it is being brought up is that when Ireland kicked you could hear a pin drop but not so for the Welsh kicks. Personally I think that you should respect the kick and the kicker. Heckle the decision before and after is OK.

Jammy GitI doubt there's a fan in the ground who doesn't realise the silence heaps pressure on the opposing kicker

That's why I suggested it might be the Welsh fans.

Strange how this idea comes up over and over when again when it's obviously such rubbish. No supporter has ever made noise to "help" their kicker, and in the remote chance that anyone ever does, they would presumably cheer or clap - not boo.

It's fairly rare in the UK + Ireland, but it has been known to happen (Newcastle for Gopperth, I think). However in other countries it's de rigeur to cheer on the kicker if he's yours and boo the opposition.

Jammy GitIn other countries it's de rigeur to cheer on the kicker if he's yours and boo the opposition.

OK, I'll buy that. And it's obvious how it would have come about isn't it? The booing will have come in first, followed by the cheering to try to drown / balance it out. You don't get games with only cheering.

T-BoneWhen we beat munster at thomond they were certainly booing the decisions a lot but not sure if they then stopped for the actual kicks. I think it's fair enough to boo the decision but then shut up for the kick, so if that's what they were doing then fair enough. can't say I cam actually remember now. they're certainly normally much quieter than the stoop, especially the brats in the south stand

I was at Thomond Park (what a day that was !) but the memory plays tricks so I've been back to review the match on Sky+.

There was "cathedral like" silence for the first 5 kicks with the exception of the usual few "comedians" who call out just before the kicker strikes the ball. For Rory's 2nd penalty mid-way through the 2nd half there were general murmurings within the crowd as he took the kick - probably due to frustration with how the game was going from a Munster perspective.

Another factor is that Rory's kicking routine is faster than NEv's and he took the kick quickly as it was in front of the posts so the Munster crowd had less time than usual to settle into their silent routine !

I think I've posted this before but it's worth repeating. I was sat very close to Gonzo's parents who were on a European trip. As NEv lined up one of his 1st half penalties, Gonzo trotted back to take up his position by the touchline. Gonzo's dad jumped up, waved his arms and shouted "Hey Gonzalo !" ... it was amazing to hear 20,000+ Munster supporters go ... "Ssshhhhh" in unison.

Strange how this idea comes up over and over when again when it's obviously such rubbish. No supporter has ever made noise to "help" their kicker, and in the remote chance that anyone ever does, they would presumably cheer or clap - not boo.

I didn't say they were booing - I just remember noise. To be fair I slept through quite a bit of the game anyway.

I think it's equally rubbish that people claim that being quiet is out of respect for the kicker. It isn't - it's just a tradition in some countries which strangely enough appears to put many kickers off.

What would be disrespectful is making a sudden loud noise after the kicker has started their run up. Go down your local club on a Saturday and that could be as little as saying something in a normal voice on the touchline.

Brown Bottle
I think it's equally rubbish that people claim that being quiet is out of respect for the kicker.

And I didn't say that, so we're even.

I object to booing kicks, because it is boorish, loutish behaviour that is attempting to put the kicker off, or at least show disrespect towards the opposition.
I was awake, so I can tell you the noise on Sunday was quite clearly booing, whistling and jeering.

Brown Bottle
I think it's equally rubbish that people claim that being quiet is out of respect for the kicker.

And I didn't say that, so we're even.

I object to booing kicks, because it is boorish, loutish behaviour that is attempting to put the kicker off, or at least show disrespect towards the opposition.
I was awake, so I can tell you the noise on Sunday was quite clearly booing, whistling and jeering.

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