Shilohbloo:50848 wrote: Also, if Mark had looked in Season 5 as he had in Season 3, I highly doubt there would have been these issues with him. After all, while Johnny was playing 14 in Season 5, he was actually 16… but in Season 3, Johnny was actually 14, the age he was playing in Season 5… He was 14 in "The Wyoming Story" and just turned 15 when he played "Short Rope for a Tall Man" (or vice versa, depending on the Production Dates) - with Mark being 12 at that time. And yet nobody had an issue with a 14 going on 15 year old Johnny playing that 12 year old role because he was still so very small. So, it stands to reason that if Johnny had looked as his actual age of 14 - as he looked in Season 3 - in the last season, it would have been easier to think of him as still the younger boy he is playing. And if that’s taken into account, that we may not really be thinking in terms of age as much as body structure - using this scale as an example – a somewhat different take could be put on Season 5.

I've always wondered what it is that makes the casting people select people of other ages for the roles they play. Like a 16 year old high school student so often is played by a 19 or 20 year old, or 'college students' played by actors pushing 30 years old. Now if you want someone to play 100 years old, you're not going to find many candidates for such a role, but it seems that so often someone of a certain age isn't able to play their own age.

You said that you analyze everything. I like that because so do I and in fact I am a systems analyst as my profession. That brings up another reason I like 'Sidewinder'... if you take Grid's story about how old he was when Lucas shot his Pa and add in the years he (Grid) describes in the meantime, it makes him 13 years of age. Billy Hughes was in fact 13 when the episode was filmed. (He was going on 14 but still 13; for all we know, Grid might have been as well.) Not only did he handle a Colt single action revolver amazingly well but it was all the more in line with the story because here you had a boy who really could handle a gun so well with his smaller hands. It all fit together nicely between the reality and the story.

I'm more than a stickler for detail. In Sidewinder when Grid gets brought in to Micah's jail he said that his gun wasn't even loaded when he challenged Mark to a duel. In fact, when Mark refuses to cooperate and Grid goes inside the house to wait for Lucas, as he walks to the door we see him loading his gun. It WAS empty when he challenged Mark to a duel, just as he said. And when he whips his gun out of the holster and orders Mark to 'Pick it up!' (the other gun) it's easy to hear the rapid four clicks in succession that a Colt makes when you cock the hammer. Not only did Grid draw his gun extremely quickly but he also cocked it at the same time - another great touch of reality.

"Keep your 'sites' on The Rifleman"
"The Rifleman hits the 'Mark' every week on abc."
A cowgirl's work is never done.

Shilohbloo:50848 wrote: Also, if Mark had looked in Season 5 as he had in Season 3, I highly doubt there would have been these issues with him. After all, while Johnny was playing 14 in Season 5, he was actually 16… but in Season 3, Johnny was actually 14, the age he was playing in Season 5… He was 14 in "The Wyoming Story" and just turned 15 when he played "Short Rope for a Tall Man" (or vice versa, depending on the Production Dates) - with Mark being 12 at that time. And yet nobody had an issue with a 14 going on 15 year old Johnny playing that 12 year old role because he was still so very small. So, it stands to reason that if Johnny had looked as his actual age of 14 - as he looked in Season 3 - in the last season, it would have been easier to think of him as still the younger boy he is playing. And if that’s taken into account, that we may not really be thinking in terms of age as much as body structure - using this scale as an example – a somewhat different take could be put on Season 5.

I've always wondered what it is that makes the casting people select people of other ages for the roles they play. Like a 16 year old high school student so often is played by a 19 or 20 year old, or 'college students' played by actors pushing 30 years old. Now if you want someone to play 100 years old, you're not going to find many candidates for such a role, but it seems that so often someone of a certain age isn't able to play their own age.

You said that you analyze everything. I like that because so do I and in fact I am a systems analyst as my profession. That brings up another reason I like 'Sidewinder'... if you take Grid's story about how old he was when Lucas shot his Pa and add in the years he (Grid) describes in the meantime, it makes him 13 years of age. Billy Hughes was in fact 13 when the episode was filmed. (He was going on 14 but still 13; for all we know, Grid might have been as well.) Not only did he handle a Colt single action revolver amazingly well but it was all the more in line with the story because here you had a boy who really could handle a gun so well with his smaller hands. It all fit together nicely between the reality and the story.

I'm more than a stickler for detail. In Sidewinder when Grid gets brought in to Micah's jail he said that his gun wasn't even loaded when he challenged Mark to a duel. In fact, when Mark refuses to cooperate and Grid goes inside the house to wait for Lucas, as he walks to the door we see him loading his gun. It WAS empty when he challenged Mark to a duel, just as he said. And when he whips his gun out of the holster and orders Mark to 'Pick it up!' (the other gun) it's easy to hear the rapid four clicks in succession that a Colt makes when you cock the hammer. Not only did Grid draw his gun extremely quickly but he also cocked it at the same time - another great touch of reality.

Normally, I agree with you about the age discrepancies of the parts they play. For the longest time growing up, I really thought highschoolers looked like early to mid-twenties, since it's what was often portrayed on t.v. ... Ha! In Johnny Crawford's case, however, he was inordinately small for most of "the Rifleman", which made him completely believable to be that age. The downfall, of course, was when he had his sudden "catching up" growth spurt in the 5th season. It seemed he just wouldn't stop growing! And with how they intermixed their filming throughout the season, not to mention often showing in different order of actual production, it could really do a number on the visuals and storylines of it all.

As for Sidewinder, yes, it IS a very special episode. Not only for the classic storyline - although, of course for that! - but also for the incredible casting of Grid. Btw, I had noticed another writing of this story, elsewhere on this site, with a completely different mid to ending... I believe that is yours?? It is very well done!! I could totally picture that as the actual story... very Rifleman like! The ending was really perfect, too... very dramatic.... Of course, I being a sucker for a happy ending, might have ultimately wanted him to change his mind and end up on Lou's doorstep, to take her up on that possible new life she was offering... but I'm sure it wouldn't have had the same punch as him riding out of town, forever bearing his weary burden alone....

"Keep your 'sites' on The Rifleman"
"The Rifleman hits the 'Mark' every week on abc."
A cowgirl's work is never done.

Howard:49027 wrote:I know I've mentioned this before, but really,
and I know there were some other lesser factors,
I think Rifleman 'jumped the shark' when Lou Mallory landed...
Up until then, there were very few, considering how many there
were, that I would not watch...

I guess I just thought Miss Scott was too hard to replace.
Maybe they shouldn't have tried.. :sad:

Dan

I'm smiling at this, Dan, because words from you on this particular subject seem so unnecessary when all we have to do is take a gander at your avatar! smiley_giggle

"Keep your 'sites' on The Rifleman"
"The Rifleman hits the 'Mark' every week on abc."
A cowgirl's work is never done.

rooster davis:50849 wrote:
I've always wondered what it is that makes the casting people select people of other ages for the roles they play. Like a 16 year old high school student so often is played by a 19 or 20 year old, or 'college students' played by actors pushing 30 years old. Now if you want someone to play 100 years old, you're not going to find many candidates for such a role, but it seems that so often someone of a certain age isn't able to play their own age.

You said that you analyze everything. I like that because so do I and in fact I am a systems analyst as my profession. That brings up another reason I like 'Sidewinder'... if you take Grid's story about how old he was when Lucas shot his Pa and add in the years he (Grid) describes in the meantime, it makes him 13 years of age. Billy Hughes was in fact 13 when the episode was filmed. (He was going on 14 but still 13; for all we know, Grid might have been as well.) Not only did he handle a Colt single action revolver amazingly well but it was all the more in line with the story because here you had a boy who really could handle a gun so well with his smaller hands. It all fit together nicely between the reality and the story.

I'm more than a stickler for detail. In Sidewinder when Grid gets brought in to Micah's jail he said that his gun wasn't even loaded when he challenged Mark to a duel. In fact, when Mark refuses to cooperate and Grid goes inside the house to wait for Lucas, as he walks to the door we see him loading his gun. It WAS empty when he challenged Mark to a duel, just as he said. And when he whips his gun out of the holster and orders Mark to 'Pick it up!' (the other gun) it's easy to hear the rapid four clicks in succession that a Colt makes when you cock the hammer. Not only did Grid draw his gun extremely quickly but he also cocked it at the same time - another great touch of reality.

Normally, I agree with you about the age discrepancies of the parts they play. For the longest time growing up, I really thought highschoolers looked like early to mid-twenties, since it's what was often portrayed on t.v. ... Ha! In Johnny Crawford's case, however, he was inordinately small for most of "the Rifleman", which made him completely believable to be that age. The downfall, of course, was when he had his sudden "catching up" growth spurt in the 5th season. It seemed he just wouldn't stop growing! And with how they intermixed their filming throughout the season, not to mention often showing in different order of actual production, it could really do a number on the visuals and storylines of it all.

As for Sidewinder, yes, it IS a very special episode. Not only for the classic storyline - although, of course for that! - but also for the incredible casting of Grid. Btw, I had noticed another writing of this story, elsewhere on this site, with a completely different mid to ending... I believe that is yours?? It is very well done!! I could totally picture that as the actual story... very Rifleman like! The ending was really perfect, too... very dramatic.... Of course, I being a sucker for a happy ending, might have ultimately wanted him to change his mind and end up on Lou's doorstep, to take her up on that possible new life she was offering... but I'm sure it wouldn't have had the same punch as him riding out of town, forever bearing his weary burden alone....

Oh certainly, JC looked younger than his age because he was smaller than average. Actually I always thought JC didn't look much like his 'father' in size or features. Speaking of 'shooting up', on Leave It To Beaver, in the first couple of seasons Beaver had a friend named Richard. He must have had a real growth spurt because near the end of the series he was Wally's friend, not Beaver's.

Yes, I did write that alternate Sidewinder ending. I thought it was just lazy and a shame for the writers to dispose of Grid and his issues in the ridiculous way they did. There they had a really interesting and powerful character and they trashed him to get to 'the end' on the script. Pathetic. I'm glad you liked my version of the ending. I hate when the writers 'play God' and just drop a solution into the script to get it over with when it makes no sense. If I say so myself, had the producer seen my version of the ending they'd have thrown the original into the trash. (And maybe offered me a job. )

"Keep your 'sites' on The Rifleman"
"The Rifleman hits the 'Mark' every week on abc."
A cowgirl's work is never done.

rooster davis:43822 wrote:I remember watching pretty much the whole Mary Tyler Moore series, up to the final episode which ran THIRTY SIX YEARS AGO! Gee, the last episode of 'Newhart' (where Suzanne Pleshette came back for the ending) was only 23 years ago. Oh my gosh.

Rooster D! How old you just made me feel!!! With "The Rifleman", I'm loving them through reruns, but I remember watching the first run of those last eps of "MTM" and "Newhart"!!! 36 and 23????? Say it ain't sooooo.........av-6.gif smiley_whistling av-6.gif smiley_whistling

Just saw on the news this PM that this is the 25th anniversary of the first episode of Seinfeld being aired. And the show has now been out of production for sixteen years! Think what 25 years can cover: how about, the end of WW2 to the production of the Boeing 747... the difference between the first I Love Lucy and Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In...

And if you went back 25 years from now, MTM would STILL have been out of production for 11 years by that point! I think MTM's show is the one that really drives home just how many years have passed.

"Keep your 'sites' on The Rifleman"
"The Rifleman hits the 'Mark' every week on abc."
A cowgirl's work is never done.

rooster davis:50858 wrote:
Oh certainly, JC looked younger than his age because he was smaller than average. Actually I always thought JC didn't look much like his 'father' in size or features. Speaking of 'shooting up', on Leave It To Beaver, in the first couple of seasons Beaver had a friend named Richard. He must have had a real growth spurt because near the end of the series he was Wally's friend, not Beaver's.

Yes, I did write that alternate Sidewinder ending. I thought it was just lazy and a shame for the writers to dispose of Grid and his issues in the ridiculous way they did. There they had a really interesting and powerful character and they trashed him to get to 'the end' on the script. Pathetic. I'm glad you liked my version of the ending. I hate when the writers 'play God' and just drop a solution into the script to get it over with when it makes no sense. If I say so myself, had the producer seen my version of the ending they'd have thrown the original into the trash. (And maybe offered me a job. )

Well, it ain't braggin' if it's true. And in this case - it's true! They would have done very well to have you - and Robert Culp - handle a good portion of their writing! smiley_computer The good news is this site is here to help express all those wonderful ideas. What a lovely, lovely thing, 'eh?

Regarding the lack of similarity in looks between JC & CC... I always felt it was a good thing, so to bring the obvious to fore, that Mark was the spitting image of his ma in looks... and more like his pa in most everything else... of course with the extra huggable, loving nature coming from his ma's side.

As for Beaver's friend Richard... Now that's some interesting trivia, indeed! Just gotta love the inconsistencies. It's like, did they really think it would escape the avid fans??? Bizarre!

"Keep your 'sites' on The Rifleman"
"The Rifleman hits the 'Mark' every week on abc."
A cowgirl's work is never done.

Shilohbloo:50847 wrote:
Rooster D! How old you just made me feel!!! With "The Rifleman", I'm loving them through reruns, but I remember watching the first run of those last eps of "MTM" and "Newhart"!!! 36 and 23????? Say it ain't sooooo.........av-6.gif smiley_whistling av-6.gif smiley_whistling

Just saw on the news this PM that this is the 25th anniversary of the first episode of Seinfeld being aired. And the show has now been out of production for sixteen years! Think what 25 years can cover: how about, the end of WW2 to the production of the Boeing 747... the difference between the first I Love Lucy and Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In...

And if you went back 25 years from now, MTM would STILL have been out of production for 11 years by that point! I think MTM's show is the one that really drives home just how many years have passed.

So, now the question is: Where the heck have I been while all those years have been sneakin' behind my back??????? smiley_stars

"Keep your 'sites' on The Rifleman"
"The Rifleman hits the 'Mark' every week on abc."
A cowgirl's work is never done.

rooster davis:50858 wrote:
Oh certainly, JC looked younger than his age because he was smaller than average. Actually I always thought JC didn't look much like his 'father' in size or features. Speaking of 'shooting up', on Leave It To Beaver, in the first couple of seasons Beaver had a friend named Richard. He must have had a real growth spurt because near the end of the series he was Wally's friend, not Beaver's.

Yes, I did write that alternate Sidewinder ending. I thought it was just lazy and a shame for the writers to dispose of Grid and his issues in the ridiculous way they did. There they had a really interesting and powerful character and they trashed him to get to 'the end' on the script. Pathetic. I'm glad you liked my version of the ending. I hate when the writers 'play God' and just drop a solution into the script to get it over with when it makes no sense. If I say so myself, had the producer seen my version of the ending they'd have thrown the original into the trash. (And maybe offered me a job. )

Well, it ain't braggin' if it's true. And in this case - it's true! They would have done very well to have you - and Robert Culp - handle a good portion of their writing! smiley_computer The good news is this site is here to help express all those wonderful ideas. What a lovely, lovely thing, 'eh?

Regarding the lack of similarity in looks between JC & CC... I always felt it was a good thing, so to bring the obvious to fore, that Mark was the spitting image of his ma in looks... and more like his pa in most everything else... of course with the extra huggable, loving nature coming from his ma's side.

As for Beaver's friend Richard... Now that's some interesting trivia, indeed! Just gotta love the inconsistencies. It's like, did they really think it would escape the avid fans??? Bizarre!

Thanks for the kind words about my alternate ending for Sidewinder. I am usually very picky and never satisfied but when I re-read it I am still happy with it.

As for JC looking like his mom, well perhaps, but he wasn't an awful lot like his pa either - they didn't let him be. Still he played an interesting character and one a whole lot of people loved - and still do love.

"Keep your 'sites' on The Rifleman"
"The Rifleman hits the 'Mark' every week on abc."
A cowgirl's work is never done.