facue420 wrote:he was asked to shoot more because everyone on knicks was on slumps. thats how Mike D'Antoni's runs his system just like when he was coaching phenix.

you can hate all you want, my point was in three months warriors still sux and the knicks has chance to be a better team.

Whose debating that the Warriors will be better than the Knicks? The topic is JEREMY LIN and my point is that if you think he's honestly a 20 and 8 player, I can't wait to hear what you have to say in 3 months when I bump this. Sure, NY will still be better than the Warriors. Big surprise, seeing as they kinda have this dude named Melo whose a top 10 nba player. But Lin will have crash landed back to earth by then. He might even be Baron Davis' backup. We'll see, won't we.

jimbob631 wrote:I think the ridiculous amount of free throws are the result of a stagnant offense that without Melo and Amare is led by Tyson Chandler and Landry Fields, two players who are inconsistent offensive players at best. The FGA will decrease when Amare and Melo comes back.

The fact that the offense has tremendously improved though with him starting speaks to his abilities as a point guard. Looking beyond the high assist numbers, other players such as Novak, Chandler, and Fields are playing better than they have all season. This is a great deal because the offense has been orchastrated by Lin.

I really don't want to debate the free throw thing, however its interesting to note that teams like Indiana, Sacremento, Utah, Minnesota, and Denver are top ten in free throws attempted. Two years ago New York was 28th, and three years ago they were 22nd.

But that's exactly it: 8 of the leagues top 10 free throw shooting teams are in the playoffs. And I also find it strange how much more NY is getting to the line with the same coach, same system, and only difference being two superstar players known for getting whistles. It's almost as though they were being placed for lottery positions when they were bad, but now are getting superstar whistles since they obviously won't be in the lottery this year. Fact is (and I know you're from NY, Jim, so I wanna preface this by simply reacknowledging that everything here is simply my own, personal opinion, but) regardless of whatever sport it is, NY and LA aaaaaaalways seem to get the special-treatment, big market, superstar whistles. I think the same thing about the Yankees, the Rangers, the Giants, the Jets... And (also) the Lakers, Dodgers, and Kings. I mean, seriously, if it's big money against any small market team, I usually see bias towards the big market; especially in the NBA (which I believe, behind boxing, is the most crooked major sport in America). David Stern loves money more than basketball and anytime a big market team has a chance to shine, he does whatever he can to put them on top.

Here's a question: if Jeremy Lin puts up identical numbers and leads the Memphis Grizzlies to a string of victories, are there any headlines popping up or any air time on national media being made about this kid? Everything gets blown up in NY, and it's a chicken-or-the-egg argument as to whether they shine through NY's hazy pressure or if NY simply makes a bigger deal about mediocre accomplishments. One thing we can all agree on is this: Jeremy Lin has played fantastically in these last 5 games. I'm very interested to see if he can keep this up.

i dont know how did u come up with the idea of when melo and stud come back, lins wont maintain his high level playmaking. with 2 all stars level players around him, its only going to make him better. i dont know what you have against asian athletes, but jeremy lin is foreal. and yes i will be here after 3 months. i hope u do too, hater

Okay. That's all I need to hear to establish your credibility. Me not drinking Jeremy Lin's kool-aid automatically makes me an Asian-American hater. Hahaha, there is a WORLD of middle-ground your skipping over there, sport. I'll see you in 3 months.

its not about drinking kooaid, its about recognize talents. obviously u havent watched much knicks game nor u play nba fantasy. so i dont blame you on not recognize the talents are there. melo stud chandler are only going to make lin pile up his assists

You accused me of having a prejudice against Asian-American players because I don't buy into the claims being made by wildly exaggerating fans that even Jeremy himself is down-playing. I never made any personal attacks on you for LIKING Jeremy Lin. You're just not worth debating with. You make pond-jumping claims about things you know nothing about and your scouting report can be rewritten during a 6 game stretch. Good for you. I judge players on their entire body of work (not their best 4 games). You buy into superstardom after a week. Fine. You think he's a 25 and 8 guy. I think he's a 13 and 6 guy. We'll see whose closer in 3 months. Meantime, I don't need to waste my time prattling against the girl with the huge crush on Jeremy Lin. To keep anyone from being slow or assuming: I don't have anything against Asian-Americans of any kind. It's possible to like or dislike a player without any driven effect coming from race. To not believe so is moronic.

Guys, I don't like to warn anyone, but we're all mature here, so debate without name calling, and keep it civil. It's not that worthy of a subject to begin with, to get emotional. And I didn't get a feeling that anyone here is being racist as well.

Wow... Guess its turning into a sensitive topic. I don't see why he can't be a 18/8 guy on a daily basis in this Knicks system. He is only 23, and for those of us who watched him play, you def see improvements on his jumper and overall confidence that he didn't have with us last year. No reason why he can't continue to improve, assuming he continues with his work ethic.

I don't know if I will say he is or will ever be an all star or a top teir pg, but I can say that he has been doing an excellent job of making other players on his team better. Understanding his shooters and dissecting that PNR. Clearly no one can argue that his teammates seems to feed off of his energy.

DleagueDelight wrote:I don't know if I will say he is or will ever be an all star or a top teir pg, but I can say that he has been doing an excellent job of making other players on his team better. Understanding his shooters and dissecting that PNR. Clearly no one can argue that his teammates seems to feed off of his energy.

If he even plays half as good as he's playing now, he'll make an All-Star game. Maybe not because of what he brings on the court, but his popularity alone will get him in. Chinese fans are still reeling from Yao Ming's retirement and remember that Ming was an All-Star without even playing a game. But, we'll have to see how it goes for him next season and beyond.

At this point, I don't know how anyone can say that Lin isn't good enough or at all. At least admit that he's been great in the last 7 games.

He's playing out of his mind. For a guard that's a career 17% three-point shooter to be scoring the way he has... It's incredible.

The disagreement is only introduced when it becomes a matter of if he can sustain this. I - seeming, alone - don't believe he's a 20 and 8 guy. I really don't. I believe he's a 13 and 6 guy. Not bad, but not (pardon the pun) in-lin-ce-able. I believe his assist numbers and scoring are driven by the system he's in and I congratulate him for taking advantage of his opportunities. The point remains: I believe his novelty wears down (I have to be careful in this forum not to say it'll wear "off", but), Lin will have a tough time adjusting to teams that go under him on screens if he is in fact still a 15-25% three-point shooter. That's my only point. He has a weakness. And I have yet to see any teams exploit that; they're so worried about giving him a running start, teams are smothering him at half court and, (not to burst anyone's bubble, but) that FUELS his slashy style of play.

There are 2 guys as of now, off top, I can name that are elite point-guards without consistent 3-point range: Rajon Rondo and Tony Parker. That's it. Is anyone ready to put Lin in that category?

As a Bay Area guy, I hope he really is the 40% marksman that he worked so hard to be this past summer, it'll help him maintain these video game numbers. But as a realist, I still see Jeremy Lin for what he is and like I said above, Marcioulonis seems like his best case scenario. And that isn't bad.

Again, JUST SO IT'S CLEAR: he's making the most of his opportunities, he's shooting well over every statistical number he's ever put up in his NBA career, and he's played out of his mind for a week. My simple, sole concern is this: does Lin remain dominant if the opposition turns him into a jump shooter? (because, inevitably, NBA coaches and scouts will figure that out).

32 wrote:He's playing out of his mind. For a guard that's a career 17% three-point shooter to be scoring the way he has... It's incredible.

The disagreement is only introduced when it becomes a matter of if he can sustain this. I - seeming, alone - don't believe he's a 20 and 8 guy. I really don't. I believe he's a 13 and 6 guy. Not bad, but not (pardon the pun) in-lin-ce-able. I believe his assist numbers and scoring are driven by the system he's in and I congratulate him for taking advantage of his opportunities. The point remains: I believe his novelty wears down (I have to be careful in this forum not to say it'll wear "off", but), Lin will have a tough time adjusting to teams that go under him on screens if he is in fact still a 15-25% three-point shooter. That's my only point. He has a weakness. And I have yet to see any teams exploit that; they're so worried about giving him a running start, teams are smothering him at half court and, (not to burst anyone's bubble, but) that FUELS his slashy style of play.

There are 2 guys as of now, off top, I can name that are elite point-guards without consistent 3-point range: Rajon Rondo and Tony Parker. That's it. Is anyone ready to put Lin in that category?

As a Bay Area guy, I hope he really is the 40% marksman that he worked so hard to be this past summer, it'll help him maintain these video game numbers. But as a realist, I still see Jeremy Lin for what he is and like I said above, Marcioulonis seems like his best case scenario. And that isn't bad.

Again, JUST SO IT'S CLEAR: he's making the most of his opportunities, he's shooting well over every statistical number he's ever put up in his NBA career, and he's played out of his mind for a week. My simple, sole concern is this: does Lin remain dominant if the opposition turns him into a jump shooter? (because, inevitably, NBA coaches and scouts will figure that out).

That is actually the consensus opinion on Lin within this board and beyond. No one is expecting him to continue with these numbers which is why it is so great he is putting up these numbers. This thread is active out of appreciation for what he is doing. Look back through it and you'll find we're all mostly in agreement with what Lin is. The "differences" are that some are celebrating Lin's achievemnts while others are waiting for it to end.

Oh, come on Fine. Nobody is saying that we want to see Lin fail. I said what I think his averages I feel like will be. That's what I see when I watch him play, I just can't see him maintain this form and these numbers, especially when you compare him to the best PGs in the league. He is still miles away from them. I never said I want him to fall on his face, why would I? The only thing I don't like is the thing that medias blew this so out of proportion. I mean, like those stats where they compare him with even Jordan and other legendary players, when they say that he scored more points in first 4 starts than them. Well, they played from the bat, in their first season, being rookies, Lin is in his second year, he played a whole year for Warriors and didn't do crap pretty much, but at least he had time to learn how to play in the NBA, and had some minutes still. It's totally different. So, just because he is starting now, doesn't mean the situations are the same.

Anyway, that's nothing against the kid, it's just the way how everyone is portraying it.

I completely agree. Believing that Lin is playing above his head and that he won't be a 20 and 8 guy doesn't mean we are praying this guy fails. As I said to the fellow on the previous page, there is a world of middle ground not being accounted for there. Jeremy Lin is a bay area guy; he's from MY specific neck of the woods (Palo Alto is where my cousins live, I'm a short jump away in San Jose). I have no axe to grind against Jeremy Lin; my quarrel is with a NY media that has systematically destroyed a plethora of great players when they don't perform flawlessly (players including Randy Johnson, Alex Rodriguez, Eli Manning, and even one Carmelo Anthony). I see what the media is doing to Lin as a typical routine where they are setting up an above average (All be it, 6 outta 10 caliber) guy to fail. I'd rather the country see Lin as a viable option at PG than a fad destined to run its course. We're the enemies of Lin for demanding legitimacy from those who label him?

What doesn't show up on the stats is Lin's ability to make this team better. When Anthony returns, its going to open up his game because its going to be a "pick your poison" situation. Not as many double teams for Amare and Carmelo. Guys like Novak has come alive and ask Chandler who he wants as his point guard. Lin makes this team better.

Guybrush wrote:Oh, come on Fine. Nobody is saying that we want to see Lin fail.

I'm saying that, not because I'm bitter and not because I have anything against him or Asians (lol). Rather, I want NY fans and the media to reap what they sow with all of this retarded Linsanity BS. Seriously, they're acting like the guy is a first ballot HOF'er after a handful of games. I just don't get it - as I shouldn't, because it's NYC, nothing makes sense when it comes to NYC sports and the media.

With my blatant hate for NYC media bias now sufficiently vented... I think Lin could be a solid player for many years to come, who knows? Maybe one day he could be in the HOF, but all of this is too much - the hype after his first 3 games you would have thought he'd been doing this all season.

Here you go, tonight he played nearly 40 minutes, had 26 points, but his assists went where they probably should be, to 5...and his huge number of turnovers instead of going down, went up to 9...and, imagine, Knicks lost to terrible Hornets.