NCDSA.com belongs to Adam Nathanson. He can do whatever he pleases with it. I would never ask in any way that he do something differently to satisfy me.

I will never again participate on his website.

Any race that uses NCDSA.com as the only means of determining participation will not see me participate. I am currently signed up for the Dixie Cup and La Costa. I will not put my name on NCDSA.com again.

Adam can do what he pleases. I of course have the same options.

I'm also going to have to seriously consider whether or not I will give money to companies that pay Adam. Again, everyone can do what they please with their money. I also can do what I please with mine. I have no desire to in anyway see any of my money go for Adam's benefit.

Why bring this to SS.com and not to NCDSA.com? Well, as I said I'll never again post on that webstie. Also, the Contest Calendar has become an integral part of the slalom scene. Adam's use of his soap box to be an activist affects slalom racing. Therefore, it's an appropriate random topic to bring to SS.com. In other words, I brought it here because I want to.

Wesley Tucker wrote:
I'm also going to have to seriously consider whether or not I will give money to companies that pay Adam. Again, everyone can do what they please with their money. I also can do what I please with mine. I have no desire to in anyway see any of my money go for Adam's benefit.

Wesley,

I can't speak for other advertisers, but I know that I wasn't notified of Adam's actions. In other words, I was surprised as you were (maybe even more).

Wesley Tucker wrote:
I'm also going to have to seriously consider whether or not I will give money to companies that pay Adam. Again, everyone can do what they please with their money. I also can do what I please with mine. I have no desire to in anyway see any of my money go for Adam's benefit.

Wesley,

I can't speak for other advertisers, but I know that I wasn't notified of Adam's actions. In other words, I was surprised as you were (maybe even more).

--Mark @ Mile High Skates

There you go Wes, you can still buy from Mark. I have no problem with Adam's advertisers,

is it because of the impeach page or what are your reasons?
and what does impeach mean?
care to explain?

Donald,

"Impeachment" is the process whereby we remove those unfit for high office. There are provisions in the Constitution to impeach the President, the Vice President and members of the Federal Çourt. Others, such as members of the House and Senate, are subject to court action as any other citizen.

Impeachment is a three part process:

1. A member of the House brings forth a motion to impeach.
2. A majority of the members of the House support the motion. This is in effect an indictment of the accused.
3. The House brings its motion to the Senate where a trial is held with all Senators as Jurors. The Chief Justice Of The Supreme Court acts as trial judge. After hearing the House's case, the Senators vote. It takes 2/3rds of the Senators to convict (67 with today's senate).

This has happened twice in our country's history: Andrew Johnson of Tennessee was the 17th president. He took office when Abraham Lincoln was assassinated. He dismissed two of his cabinet members without consulting Congress and the House impeached him for it. He was found not guilt by the Senate. William Jefferson Clinton of Hope, Arkansas lied under oath and was impeached on a charge of perjury. The Senate found him not guilty. There is an excellent chance the 37th president, Richard Nixon, would have been impeached on a charge of obstruction of justice but his resignation from office curtailed any further efforts for his impeachment.

Also, the 29th president, Warren G. Harding, would have probably been impeached on a charge of bribery and obstruction of justice but he died in office and left the issue unchallenged. Harding is the only president who faced a serious impeachment effort by a congress whose majority was of his own party. (Johnson, although Lincoln's Vice President, was a Democrat and Congress was completely Republican. Republican Nixon faced a Congress completely controlled by Democrats and Clinton's fate was decided by a Republican-controlled Congress.)

Steve Collins wrote:If he had posted a page that said something like, "liberals are terrorist appeasers" or "real men don't question their commander in chief" would you have been as offended?

In other words, is it simply because you disagree with his political perspective?

Steve,

I haven't in any way asked Adam Nathanson to justify his actions. Why are you asking that I justify mine?

Please be mindful of what I said: I haven't asked anyone to do anything. I'm not demanding, insisting, intimating, coercing or arguing. Nothing in my post in any was suggested that anyone take any action of any sort.

All I did was say what I was going to do. As such I think it's fair for me to respond, "why do I have to justify myself to anyone?"

Steve Collins wrote:really, I think it took balls. It really is too late for the head in the sand approach.

Who's head are you implying is in the sand? Who are you implying is blind and deaf to current events? Who do you think is unknowledgeable of what's going on in the world? Why is now "too late" for such an approach? When was a "head in the sand" approach appropriate?

Wes, I didn't ask you to justify your comments or the things you said you would do. I asked you to explain. Maybe I should have asked, "Was it just political speech at all on a skateboard website or was it just that particular political speech?". Just wondering. We ask each other all sorts of things here. You don't have to answer. You don't have to justify yourself to me or anyone. Disagreement shouldn't be such a big deal.

My "head in the sand" comment was/is directed to those of us who feel something is very wrong and destructive about our present administration that needs to be reigned in. Did you feel it was directed to you?

Steve Collins wrote:My "head in the sand" comment was/is directed to those of us who feel something is very wrong and destructive about our present administration that needs to be reigned in.

I guess we'll know who agrees with you on November 7th.

Steve Collins wrote:Did you feel it was directed to you?

Not necessarily. I wasn't being facetious or trying to be funny but I found your assertion "It really is too late for the head in the sand approach" to be confusing. As I tried to say with my question I can't think of a circumstance when a head-in-the-sand approach to any issue is appropriate. Ignoring a problem or worse yet being afraid of advocacy can only lead to more terrible situations.

Went I 1st read your post I thought that you were objecting to the use if the contest calendar as the only means of signing up for a contest. But it seems that you are objecting to the things that Adam is saying or are you not going to use the site because he is using it as a forum for political speech?

When I 1st read your post I thought that you were objecting to the use if the contest calendar as the only means of signing up for a contest. But it seems that you are objecting to the things that Adam is saying or are you not going to use the site because he is using it as a forum for political speech?

If the only singup for the Farm is on NCDSA next year, you won't come?
For Dixie Cup or Worlds or La Costa or Woody's Half Pipe Jamboree, you won't go?

Bull Sh it

You'll just be a pain in the ass to organizers like me and demand to be entered in the race without doing what we ask everyone else to do, sign up. Why? So you can make your point.

I wholeheartedly support you to make this point, but are you really prepared to not come to races anymore, or will you email Marion Karr next year and "good naturedly" demand to be treated seperately as you are a consciencous objector?

Where else do we sign up for races? What a load of crap. Take your ball and go home. See who begs you to come back.

Step back.
Count to 10. (or 10 million).
Joe's probably right. You just may be a pain in the ass.
And.... Bush and his entourage may just be screwing things up (just a little). Or not.
Contemplate both those things for a little while.
I'm not saying anything either way.
All I'm saying is that MAYBE it's true.
Maybe.
Just relax, OK? and we'll all get through this little crisis in one piece.

Wes I agree with Troy, the slalom world would not be the same without you bro. If Adam has the balls to express his freedom of speech. More power to him. Should it be on a slalom site. Well it is his site and it has been one of the motivating factors in pushing the growth of slalom as well as this site. Will I stop buying from the vendors who sell their excellent products on his site, I will continue to purchase from these dudes. Don't let some body else opinion make you lose it man. I am glad to know you and call you a friend. And you are also entitled to your own opinion bro and to voice it. Either way WT you have left your mark on this sport. Believe me you have. Your Amigo Eddy TEXAS OUTLAWS.

I do agree that there needs to be a neutral location for race signups, not based on politics but on kindly inclusion of all skate sites. Adam is very possessive of his website traffic and has often run scripts that mess with links to other sites. That is not a neutral tactic. I don't know if he still does that, but in any case, there should be a neutral, non-proprietary signup sheet location for all races. No one is preventing race organizers from setting up sheets for their own races. It's just that NCDSA.COM is currently what everyone is familiar with and has the traffic to make it a viable central location. For a more neutral alternate, perhaps SLALOMRANKING.COM could move in to the business of race signups? Wes, you might even provide the startup labor.

#1 thanks wes for explaining the word"impeachment".
#2 it is true that mr.bush doesn't have the best of reputations in europe.his actions are more than questionable and they shed a very bad light on america in general.in a recent survey where people were asked what they think about america more than 40% of the german population were afraid of america and the actions been taken during the last few years led to that feeling.
10 years ago nobody was afraid of the #1 brother in the world.

i for myself would love to see a more peaceful america in the future which would also play a leading role in environmental law inforcement.
#3 your old slogan "freedom of speech" has been used by ncdsa.com.i think it is good to see that people stand up for their oppinion,no matter which one.america got famous with the aforementioned slogan in the whole world,things seem to be different now,which is very sad.

I've discussed this with Jani in the past. The only issue is learning how to do a sign-up database coupled with pHp software. We "think" it can be done, but again it's a question of someone who's a volunteer taking the time to figure it out.

As I am sure you aware SS.com is a very international site. The contest sign up on NCDSA is pretty much a North American thing. I don't think Pierre has ever used it for Antibes, Donald did not use it for the Worlds, the Paris race guys don't use it, etc.

I'm not motivated in some way to run Adam Nathanson out of business. Quite honestly I don't care what he does one way or the other. Slalom racing, though, by its very nature means slalom races and contests and right now Slalomskateboarder.com is certainly lacking in being a comprehensive source for racers, race organizers and fans of the sport.

One of these days (and with hope sooner than later) I'm going to be more pHp and HTML savvy and I can figure all out all these issues. Then I can quit PM'ing Jani every time there's a snag with the website. Trust me, that's also been discussed at length behind the curtain.

It really sad to hear how much "face" America has lost in the world. We are a divided nation. Last election it was 51%'s vs. the 49%'s, but we shouldn't forget we are a "slalom community" and we should stand united despite our political differences. I for one loath the current gov't administration, but I don't feel a need to boycott groups that support their views. I watch the FOX network and will listen to a Charlie Danials song when it comes on the radio. I don't have a problem with people taking a stand for what they believe in as long as they don't use disception and lies (or lives) to further their cause. If Wesley does not want to participate in any thing related to NCDSA let 'em. Just remember Wes a wise man once said:

"Southern man
better keep your head
Don't forget
what your good book said...."

And we should not forget the document that started our country too...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Are you as quick to castigate those who advocate the violent end of President Bush? There's an actual docementary right now being produced in Canada about someone shooting him. Are you writing a letter of protest? Nicholas Baker wrote "Checkpoint," a novella detailing how to assassinate President Bush. Did you make any effort to condemn his work?

Chris Miller wrote on the NCDSA Bulletin Board, "While I hate the idiot son of an ass#@! as much or more than anyone, and I love the "Impeach" splash screen (although it should really read :Put a bullet in what passes for that fool's brain),"

Any recriminations for writing such an epithet?

I mean if you're as quick to chastise me for remorse over the fact that a hypocrite like Neil Young hasn't yet left this earthly plain, why not the same condemnation of those who advocate the untimely end of the Commander In Chief?

Are you guys STUPID or something? Dude politics are good to be involved in. I myself have my views and beliefs as well as my own political website. I never mix skateboarding and politics. I make a very special effort not to bring up politics at races.

What's worse than to be sitting at a post race party with some cool people from a different part of the world- hanging out, sharing stories about crashes, races, chicks. Then you say something like "George Bush is such an asshole" and all of a sudden you've offended people for no good reason. What the hell is the point.

Can I read where you posted the same message on NCDSA.com, which has become a website for a political message advocated by the webmaster?

(Oh, just so you'll know, I went out this morning at 8:00 and skated til about 10:30. Rain pretty much short circuited the rest of my day. You have to skate early around here in the Summer or you'll miss any chance of getting any time.)

Not that I follow American politics, read NCDSA (The format is unnaceptable IMO), or give a flying rats left nut what all this is about.....................but can we please leave one of the greatest singer/songwriters to have ever walked the planet out of this?????

I for one respect Wes for having an opinion, standing up for it, and being vocal on the subject. Its his right as a consumer and a thinking adult. Beyond that I think this whole argument is stupid and doesn't really interest me as a skater and therefore really doesn't belong HERE. I agree Adam was probably wrong for bringing his political views into a site that is about SKATEBOARDING, but you are commiting the same horrible act here.

I would also like to note that I dislike rabid liberals just as much as I dislike fanatic rebuplicans, and am glad niether are very common in the slalom scene I frequent.

Next time anyone has a problem with anything politically themed, try and keep it to yourself or atleast tell someone who cares.

Anyone who takes the time to read any of those will find them to be a minutae of boring mindless yelling back and fourth... something I really have no time for and really would rather not see happening to the places I go to discuss the sport I love.

NCDSA.com is a hub for slalom information. Both the slalom and contest calendar forums have become very valuable resources for this sport. Adam has made it a point to politicize HIS site. I have made it a point to post my objection to his actions and what I intend TO NOT DO in the future.

This is the RANDOM SLALOM TOPICS forum. By taking advantage of his website's readership to spread his opinion Adam has by his own actions created a slalom topic. Therefore, my post is appropriate. Continued discussion of this action in a random slalom topic forum is appropriate. Other's opinions on this topic are appropriate.

Chris, Civ and Karl have made it clear they don't want to read any more on this subject. Unless there is something going on of which I am unaware I think it's safe to assume no one is twisting any arms.

What you up to brother? Don't let "politics" mess up your skateboarding. You made your point now get back to having fun on a skateboard while it lasts. We aren't getting any younger. By the way, what terrorist hacked the DC Forum away? Now, I'm pissed.

well, I'd voice an opinion, but Wes just thinks I'm a jerkoff loser. I have no personal beef with Wes, but for some reason he does with me - no idea why.

But for the other folks, since I am an American I agree that Wes has the right to say what's on his mind - that's what our country is aboot (hey - Canadian reference for ya'!) and always has been. And while Chris is a dear friend, I don't like Neil either (sorry my Canuckistan brother!) so I can understand the slighting of Mr Lionel Trains. And speaking with others from around the world, I'm painfully aware of how Americans are perceived and I can't say as I blame them. Allllllll that being said, I offer a compromise. Maybe Wes can have someone else sign him up on NCDSA for races - this way he can be staid in his political views and still make it to the races without promoter difficulties. He can still choose to not support companies that advertise too.

In Adam's defense - not that I know him or ever met him - it's his ballfield, we just play there. He also has a right to say what he wants on his property. Same principles apply here.

"well, I'd voice an opinion, but Wes just thinks I'm a jerkoff loser. I have no personal beef with Wes, but for some reason he does with me - no idea why. "
I think it had something to do with his woman falling in love with the entire band at the farm.you know how it goes ron,i am sure you are used to dealing with the whole groupie/jealous boyfriend thing at this point.cfav

hUH??...Wesley with a woman?? Chris being assertive? Damn, how times change! Cfav p.m Me!! Wes, while I'm on your side of thinking..politically that is, Boycotting the other site hasn't and won't hurt or impact anyone but yourself! I think you realize that and, while I (more than anyone) understand principle(s) your point and stance goes unrecognized by the ones that can make a difference! .. Time to rethink and reorganize! If you value the slalom world, than refusing to participate or contribute due to personal conflicts re: an individuals' exercice is little more than immature..

I've joined the Team Fun political party. John Dillon played Master of Ceremony at Fight Club's Fight Night last Saturday. He was sporting a tuxedo shirt w/ bow-tie, cargo shorts and t-shirt head wrap. A true leader!

Hate to be the nigger that tells you Tucker, but I think what Adam did is nothing campair to what the rest of the world is thinking. Wake up bro, your country has focked politicians just like the rest of the world. Good old USA is no better, sorry bro, time to wake up.

Second, Fatboy and his band were absolutely dreamy at Da Farm - especially with their special guest, JoeI ( i was sooooo nervous I forgot to ask him for his autograph), so I can understand Ron's problems with groupies

Third, politics and skating don't mix - but freedom of speech is a right on both sides of the border

I think the best thing to do is to just leave all this political B.S. at home anyway. I mean, obviously we have differing opinions, so let's just forget it and skate. Don't ruin something good like skateboarding by polluting it with politics.

Wes, I hope that you eventually cool down, sign up for a race (even if it is on NCDSA), and let's race!

If you really want to create a new "nuetral" contest sign up website, let me know. I could do it pretty quickly. Or talk to Hackett about using the SRA website. It has a contest posting & sign up area that is superior to NCDSA, and you might even save some money too. Of course, I believe there is a "no wimpy events" requirement and Hackett is one of those Nazi republicans...... (just kidding)