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Re: Unions Kill Hostess

And speaking of "heads exploding" ....( sorry couldn't help the use of the quotation marks), here's an article to back up my claim, which I discovered after my previous proclamation in this thread blaming management:

Since Corporations and Venture Capitalists have more money and therefore for more influence, both in Media and in politics getting their message across, I'll side with the American working class everytime!

And my second, and perhaps most important question, "Do we buy into the the media and corporate spin, or do we go out and find supporting evidence that only supports our views on any given issue??"

- - - Updated - - -

I've got a comma shaker that my English Professor gave me if "punctuation" is a problem.

He told me that I needed to leave it alone, and stop dusting my writing with it.

Just don't lose sight of what I'm saying, and if all that you can see are punctuation marks rather than to read the words under them, then somebody needs some dick.

And in a good way!

Last edited by CTF; November 18th, 2012 at 05:24 AM.

Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

Originally Posted by loki81

I hope their righteous indignation is keeping their families fed.

Hostess was fucked either way, in the long term... had the Baker's Union agreed to the concessions though (like the Teamster's Union did), they may have had a few extra months to look for a new job while collecting their salary.

the Teamsters were urging the Bakers to put the contract agreement up for an anonymous vote... without public peer pressure, my guess is that it would have passed.

Keep in mind what provoked the strike. Rather than bargain an agreement with the Baker's Union, the company filed a motion with the Bankruptcy Judge to set aside the contract and impose a new contract. The Company could have continued bargaining with the union and chose instead to have a judge impose terms. When a company files for bankruptcy, the workers always get screwed, it's just a question of degree.

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

Wow so the execs in the company were working for 1 dollar a year??? Must have had some other benefits that paid well....

However that is quite an overture to please take a cut so we can keep our doors open....

The executives of this company were parasites and did nothing out of the goodness of their hearts or for the good of the company. The bankruptcy judge has the power to "claw back" money that was paid for a period of time prior to the filing of a bankruptcy petition in court. It looks to me like these executives got pay increases that were not exactly kosher for a company about to file for bankruptcy. When you look at how they were compensated, it seems to me that there was a good chance the judge might of clawed back some money from them.

Last July, the court documents said, the compensation committee of Hostess's board approved an increase in then-chief executive Brian Driscoll's salary from to $2.55 million from around $750,000.

According to the creditors' court papers, lawyers for Hostess maintain that modifications to compensation before a filing aren't subject to the bankruptcy provision regarding incentive compensation.

Besides Mr. Driscoll, "other executives' salaries were increased by from 35% to 80%," the creditors said.

Clearly, these executives lined their pockets before the bankruptcy. Everyone should read the WSJ article to get an idea how sleazy these guys were. Like vultures, picking the last bit of meat off of a carcass.

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

Originally Posted by centexfarmer

And speaking of "heads exploding" ....( sorry couldn't help the use of the quotation marks), here's an article to back up my claim, which I discovered after my previous proclamation in this thread blaming management:

Thanks Centex. I should have read to the end of the thread before posting. This part of the article you cite caught my attention:

According to the company’s 1113 bankruptcy court filing earlier this year, they planned to close at least nine bakeries as part of its reorganization plan in addition to the three bakeries that were to be closed as a result of the company’s planned sale of its Merita division.

Section 1113 of the Bankruptcy Code is the part of the statute that gives the bankruptcy judge the power to reject a collective bargaining agreement. Here, when the judge granted the Company's 1113 motion, the workers struck. Since the result of the Company's motion was not only a huge pay cut for all of the workers, it would have thrown most of them out of work, too. The workers don't seem to have had much of a choice.

None of the articles blaming the unions mention this inconvenient fact. You are 100% right that we shouldn't take any article at face value, but do a whole lot of extra research on our own. So many media outlets just reprint press releases and call it reporting.

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

Originally Posted by palemale

None of the articles blaming the unions mention this inconvenient fact. You are 100% right that we shouldn't take any article at face value, but do a whole lot of extra research on our own. So many media outlets just reprint press releases and call it reporting.

You know palemale, one of things that I love about lawyers and accountants?

Is their ability to point out that the law, and the fact that math doesn't lie.

I wanted to hyperlink ^ the definition so that everyone understands where I'm coming from.

Thousands of jobs here in North Texas, and here in America have now been lost!

(Not to mention the fact that many Americans my never eat an American made "Twinkie" again)

It's not Obama's fault, and it's NOT Romney's fault.

It's just business.

Capitalism run amock.

But to blame fellow Americans who got out of bed everyday with the expectation that the company that they worked for actually believed in the product that they were selling, and hired them to sell and to distribute, that this is somehow their fault?

Oh....

Then that defiles both character and definition, of not only the management of Hostess Brands, but those who support the "brand" over the Americans who worked for that brand.

Which is the bill of goods, and the slop in the pig trough that so many here in America so freely want to eat at.

Wake up people!

Last edited by CTF; November 18th, 2012 at 07:25 AM.

Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

What I can't get over is that the right wing not pinning all of this on Obama.

Shooorly he is responsible for those uppity workers putting a knife through the heart of a loaf of white 'bread'. So telling...

Oh wait. This just in for those who have no sense of tongue in cheek....

Hey, Twinkie fans, all is not lost. All is not lost. Are you ready for this? I have some news here from The Politico. “A new White House petition wants President Obama to nationalize the ‘Twinkie industry,’ saving the popular junk food from possible extinction.” It’s a website called “We the People.”

“We the undersigned, hereby request Barack Obama to immediately Nationalize the Twinkie industry and prevent our nation from losing her sweet creamy center.” The website is “We the People.” You know who runs it? White House. So the White House has a petition up that many people may not know is a White House petition. As far as people are concerned it’s some interested citizens who are begging President Obama to bail out the Hostess company, thereby paving the way for Obama to go in and do it, responding to public demand, when in fact it’s a White House plan from the get-go.

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

Originally Posted by Benvolio

Another great victory for the labor unions in their class war against employers.

You're not paying attention to the thread. If you do want to discuss an issue, you should take the responsibility of elaborating on your position and addressing the points and arguments that have already been made on this topic.

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Robert Drain said at a hearing in White Plains, New York, that there are “serious questions as to the logic behind the decision to strike.” Hostess and the bakers’ union agreed to Drain’s request to enter confidential mediation under his supervision

How fucking appropriate is a bankruptcy judge named DRAIN....lol

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

The article goes on to say it is doubtful that a solution involving solvency will be found... but perhaps keeping much of it intact will make a purchase offer more attractive for another company...

I know their market share declined... no doubt but it is telling to me that there are huge sections of the bread area for all four of my local huge ass groceries that are now bare from the strike.... somehow those shelves were selling or they wouldn't be so prevalent in four groceries....

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

Yeah that is true but that goes back to declining sale over time not allowing the company to recapitalize... hence loans and accumulated debt... perhaps losing some of that debt in bankruptcy will allow another company to absorbs the product lines and facilities...

Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

Excellent marketing. As expected the union called the corporate bluff to shut down. Corporate released a press release that Hostess was shutting down creating the best public relations and sales spurt any company could hope for. The Bankruptcy judge in a typical move ordered another mediation attempt, which both parties agree to of course. Meanwhile Twinkies are selling for $6.00 a pack if they can be found and all of the suddenly Hostess, continental bakery, & drake brands are a household word and relevant in 2012 regardless of a dinosaur infrastructure and product line. No money needed for this marketing, no investment in new product. Its a win for corporate even if it only extends the shut down a few months. Maybe the workers as well, maybe not.
The long term winners will be the venture capital because they will still bleed this company down to nothing and take the profits rather now or in the next couple of yrs.
The interest of the teamsters was a bit different then the static needs of the line and plant workers so it was easier to come to terms with them, however teamsters support their Brothers and sisters who voted not accept the contract as presented. Their is a difference in support and acceptance over being happy and eager that this happened.
Any fool who thinks its a easy decision for a union to vote against a contract that should shut the doors on a career job and life blood for its work force is very naive. Not a doubt in the world that every union member knows the cards and who will lose when the plant closes, and it won't be the CEO or upper tier.

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

Besides you're just trying to sneak gov subsidized SOCIALIST education past me since of course they'd all have to go to school to learn how to make actual bread.

Bastard.

you're Canadian aren't you.

LOL well, you caught me. But I'm from western Canada, which means I'm happy to go to a giant multinational chain masquerading as a local bakery, like COBS Bread. You have to go to Toronto if you want the real hard-core socialists who will only buy a locally-grown organic stone-ground seven-grain heritage-grain fair-trade gluten-free loaf. It's artisanal!

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

This was a GRAND Media-play which allows The Powers that be @ Hostess to chose the Highest bidder in order to privatize the Company.....

I gotta give it to'em...They wanted to stick it to their Employees and thanks to the International Media Grandstanding it was accomplished and they've got Bids flowing in.....

Yeah i use to eat Twinkies when I was kid...Like any child ANYTHING sweet was a treasure...But I couldnt finish a Damn Twinkie today if my Life depended on it....It's NASTY and it tastes so FAKE....Read the ingrediants on the package....They stopped putting Flour and Sugar inside the mixing-bowl decades ago and now Companies like Hostess make those treats with Artificai shit that's made in a Lab....It's not REAl that's why it tastes strange and yucky....Kids don't know any better but their parenst should....

It looks like Little Debbie ain't having any Problems....I was at Wal-mart this morning and Little Debbie's products were displayed on three shelves right in your face...Hostess had a little-bitty space that no one would notice...

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

Cheese does not belong in a pig-in-a-blanket. If you want to bring back 1970's haute cuisine, you know full well the cheese goes in the cheese ball, and the pigs-in-blankets are served separately. Now bring me the colour-coded fondue forks.

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

Like I should follow the pack, or whatever "narrative" that's being "laid down."

When I was trying to get out of management with Walmart, and move back to Dallas to be closer to my Family, Hostess seemed like a good fit for me.

But I didn't get the job.

And I'm thankful now for unanswered prayers that I didn't.

Hostess Brands didn't have a problem with "labor" they had a problem with "management" and "innovation."

So I'll just cut to the "cheap shots."

Who in their right mind, in today's 'American Nanny State' would create a "cake" filled with hydrogenated fats, and God knows what else?

Where the biggest innovation was taking Ding Dongs out of their aluminum encased "wrapper" and placing them (individually) into a plastic encased wrapper, while still marketing them in the same BOX?

But those greedy ass motherfuckers who drove those big box trucks up to every Mom and Pop Supermarket, Convenience Store, and National Box Chain are to blame!

That clearly lets the management of Hostess Brands off the hook, while they sail away on their "golden parachutes."

I didn't bother to read every post since you created this thread, and I'm a little surprised that you'd side with management on this one.

But my posts suck, and I'm apparently not paying attention as a "moderator."

Present company excluded.

Pfffffft!

LOL

I haven't taken anyone's side, just started with the final straw of the affair.

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

Originally Posted by MystikWizard

As with any complicated issue, there are two sides to every story. It appeared as though that mismanagement was the true cause of the downfall of Hostess ... and management wanted the workers to sacrifice even more and live on un-liveable wages as a result of their mis-management of the company.

I sympathize with the workers, though. It is what it is.

There's a good question: what were these workers actually making?

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

Originally Posted by loki81

no one is arguing that Hostess wasn't fundamentally mismanaged (though, for the record, the CEO who gave the execs raises was fired and replaced with a new CEO working on a $1/year salary... most of the other execs also gave up their raises)... but the strike is why Hostess is out of business today instead of 6 months from now, taking away months of salary and time the workers could have spent looking for new jobs.

Then we could agree that someone walking away from this story and saying "see? Unions" has a fundamentally oversimplified misunderstanding of what actually happened. But, that's exactly what this story will be for the next 10 years.

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

The update on the sale of the company's brands comes as Hostess seeks approval in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Southern District of New York in White Plains, N.Y. to give its top executives bonuses totaling up to $1.8 million as part of its wind-down plans. The company says the incentive pay is needed to retain the 19 corporate officers and "high-level managers" during the liquidation process, which could take about a year.

Two of those executives would be eligible for additional rewards depending on how efficiently they carry out the liquidation. The bonuses would be in addition to their regular pay. A spokesman for Hostess noted executives will need to meet certain goals to get the bonuses.

There's money to be had in selling off this dying company and management doesn't give a damn about saving the workers.

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

There's money to be had in selling off this dying company and management doesn't give a damn about saving the workers

Oh no, it's much worse than that.

Two of those executives would be eligible for additional rewards depending on how efficiently they carry out the liquidation. The bonuses would be in addition to their regular pay. A spokesman for Hostess noted executives will need to meet certain goals to get the bonuses.

Considering that they already ran the company into the ground, destroyed yet another "manufacturing job" here in America, and as a result amounted to laying off thousands of Americans, and making unavailable to the American public dozens of brands; Hostess Donuts, Twinkies, Ding Dongs, Zingers, ad you favorite snack case to the list that was purchased at thousands of outlets, grocers, convenience stores, and mega-marts, that thousands of American Workers baked, packages, sold, and delivered EVERYDAY, that NOW executives will need to meet certain goals to get the bonuses.

Less than 60 or 70 years ago they'd be ran out of town on a rail, WITHOUT being and tared and feathered if they were lucky.

At the very least hanging their heads in shame.

But know they want to slink away blaming the "unions" and the "workers" for their miserable plight.

I'm glad to see how eager many of my fellow Americans are at "lowering the bar" for our "race to the bottom."

Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

^Whaaaattt?!!! Are you guys trying to tell me that the right's "unions bad" story... is actually not as simplistic as they were hoping... that right-wing media celebrated hubbub is an incomplete telling of the story? I'm starting to feel bad for them... I mean... sheer probability would lead one to think they would get one of these right...

Re: Unions Kill Hostess

Hmm.

Much as I hate to interrupt this Hostess-based circle jerk, I smell a rat.

For better or worse, goodness knows there's no lack of demand for Twinkies and Wonder Bread and all other assorted snack treats that have had all the fiber ripped away from them, leaving the soon to be swollen ass-ed consumer with their never ending supply of HFCS-laden treats.

I sincerely doubt that "Hostess, Inc." went under because of lack of sales. But rather, all the subterfuge is to hide the fact the the majority of their company has been shipped overseas.

Given all the unspeakable atrocities that occur in our world on a daily basis, the fact that our Tampa Bay based news opens with the horror of Twinkies are only being available for a limited time, then cuts to a video of the, um, blissfully uninformed lined up in front of their local bakery speaks volumes.