ok people... i've researched the various bugs that these forums have, especially the two major ones - latest posts being marked as "read", and the search function not showing multiple pages. Essentially the latest posts being marked as "read" bug is a confirmed bug with pnphpbb2 (the forum software I currently use), and what's worse is that it probably won't be fixed until the next release... which is a long way out.

i've also been reading a few posts here that have said "I like this or that feature of the old devnet board"... so I thought... why don't I just see if we can successfully migrate to the Invision Power Board... and voila!

I downloaded the free version and tested the conversion module... and it all worked much better than I thought! Everything converted just fine.

So, I'd like everyone to take a peek at the test forum, make some posts, maybe even register a new account. Do whatever... I don't care about bum posts, it'll all be wiped clean anyway. Give the tires a good kick....

We need to then make a decision... stay with what we have or move to the Invision Power Board.... here are some pros and cons:

pros1. IPB (Invision Power Board) is reported to be much more stable and reliable than phpbb (or it's dirivative pnphpbb)
2. most people are already comfortable with IPBs features and layout
3. the next release (due to be released in a month as a RC) has this great addition - "Lo-Fi Version" - possibly perfect for reading the forum on the Z.
4. We begin the break away from the integrated post nuke site (lends to the upcoming site re-design)
5. we would have one PM (private message) system... the new boards'
5. I can hear you all bitch about bugs in this forum software instead!

cons1. because the new board won't be "integrated" into the postnuke site, we would loose the "Who's Online" block on the main page that has the instant messenger features (ie. pops up a window with the new message when you hit the page)
2. you might need to re-upload your avatar... I'm not sure that that will transfer
3. new members would register with the new board, not the site (ok, this isn't really a con, but I'm grasping for cons here!)

as usual, please let me know your thoughts...

Foxdie

Jun 9 2004, 09:01 PM

I'm surprised you could migrate across the old posts, that was my main concern, perhaps we could get away with changing to Invisions bulletin board software.

dz

Jun 9 2004, 09:35 PM

as far as cons #1, that's nothing that can't be programmed in

the 'who's online' thing is a simple concept.. we can integrate it into the new layout no problem

i say change is good (although personally, i'd have written my own forum script )

offroadgeek

Jun 9 2004, 09:58 PM

QUOTE

as far as cons #1, that's nothing that can't be programmed in

the 'who's online' thing is a simple concept.. we can integrate it into the new layout no problem.

i say change is good (although personally, i'd have written my own forum script )

I probably shouldn't have labeled them as "cons"... they are really pieces of functionality that'd we'd lose with the new forum. I personally don't care if we lose it either, as I always have pop ups blocked in my browsers... so it kind of defeats the purpose.

overall, I would rather migrate to the better forums, and spend the time and effort on the new project!

VeeDubb

Jun 9 2004, 10:24 PM

I've always liked IPB. it's clean, powerfull, highly functional and there's lot's of goodies you can get for it.

zenyatta

Jun 9 2004, 10:51 PM

Is anyone concerned about licensing? It seems to be a closed-source product, is that a problem?

As far as I'm concerned it makes me just a tiny bit wary. I would like to know whether the reverse conversion (from IPB to php-whatever) is equally smooth. It could come in handy if the company goes down or proves unresponsive in case of a major bug/vulnerability.

If this is indeed closed source, its adoption would make ZUG (somewhat) dependent on a corporate entity - and just look at all the posts regarding Sharp...

Just my $0.02.

z.

zenyatta

Jun 9 2004, 11:00 PM

It seems my comment was a bit hasty. As it's written in PHP it is by definition "open source" :oops: . Also, the license seems to be liberal enough to allow for any necessary modifications. I'm still not sure, however, whether those license terms also apply to the trial version.

offroadgeek, are you planning to actually purchase this software or go with the trial version?

z.

jdralphs

Jun 9 2004, 11:21 PM

It looks good, but doesn't quite feel like home yet ... I kinda liked not looking like the old devnet site.

zmiq2

Jun 9 2004, 11:24 PM

Do the new boards solve the issue of threads not displaying properly with zaurus/netfront, and having to press reload on each one? If so, definitelly let's go with the change !!

Stubear

Jun 10 2004, 12:00 AM

Search doesn't work at all on Mozilla Firefox 0.8 for windows, I get a screen full of what looks to be CSS style sheet stuff.

Get the same screen using "View New Posts", or using the search page.

IE works but I hate using IE and I do most of my surfing with Firefox on linux. when I get home I'll test Firefox and Mozilla on linux and report back.

Stu

dz

Jun 10 2004, 12:08 AM

i have firefox running it fine in linux right now

omega

Jun 10 2004, 12:45 AM

It looks alright, i like this board very much though. The colour's could perhaps need to be changed (ideally to suit these?). At least though the read messages problems seems to be better.

offroadgeek

Jun 10 2004, 05:23 AM

zenyatta - I would purchase the lifetime license at a one time cost of $200 (I don't have to remember to renew it!)

jdralphs - there are "skins" for the forum, much like the themes for this forum. we would definitely change the look... I've already seen a couple "skins" that are simple and light (ie. not many graphics for dial up people or handhelds)

zmiq2 - I forgot about that annoying bug with this forum. I haven't tried the new forum with my 760 and or 5500 yet... I'll do so and report back. Can others try the new forum with their Z and report back as well?

thanks for the feedback all... keep it coming

doc

Jun 10 2004, 06:29 AM

You are da boss...I have enjoyed PNphpBB. Keep up the great work!
I'm too new around here to give any better input than that.

sriley

Jun 10 2004, 06:34 AM

The new forum displays correctly in Netfront on my 760 without hitting reload.

Nice looking forum, too. I like it.

raybert

Jun 10 2004, 08:22 AM

I mighted be branded "the devil" for saying this but I always liked IPB better than pnphpbbs. So I say go for it!

Are there other alternatives that should be considered? What SW did the old zauruszone use?

~ray

markw

Jun 10 2004, 09:50 AM

Mabe you could switch to phpnuke (phpnuke.org). then we could have a fully integrated news and everything.

offroadgeek

Jun 10 2004, 10:00 AM

QUOTE

Mabe you could switch to phpnuke (phpnuke.org). then we could have a fully integrated news and everything.

I didn't realize phpnuke integrates with IPB. If it does, then that might be an option, otherwise probably not worth the effort.

markw

Jun 10 2004, 10:04 AM

PHPNuke has its own news thing. It doesn't integrate with IPB, but with phpbb.

doseas

Jun 10 2004, 10:33 AM

One feature that I've always liked about the IPB software that is missing from the current software is the icon with a dot in it that indicates that you've posted in a thread. If the conversion isn't too much trouble & it doesn't appear that we have to give up any major features, I say definitely go for it...

dz

Jun 10 2004, 11:10 AM

No, please do not switch to PHPNuke.

I have disliked that software from day one.

doseas: that is something that can be programmed in to the new site, given the license to use IPB lets us hack it. I dont know about the license though, so that's up to geek.

offroadgeek

Jun 10 2004, 11:37 AM

QUOTE

One feature that I've always liked about the IPB software that is missing from the current software is the icon with a dot in it that indicates that you've posted in a thread. If the conversion isn't too much trouble & it doesn't appear that we have to give up any major features, I say definitely go for it...

I too really like that little feature.. and it's already in the IPB forum so that's great.

It sounds like it's a general 'go' for this... should I wait a while longer to hear more feedback?

dz

Jun 10 2004, 12:50 PM

Oh woops.. i read his comment wrong.

My bad.

Greg2

Jun 10 2004, 01:02 PM

If your waiting for more feedback...

I checked it out today and everything works great. I have come to like this grayish theme....maybe a simple less-blue skin? (sounds like I'm picking out a car)

Anyway...your the Administrator...go for it.

Greg

lardman

Jun 10 2004, 01:27 PM

Looks good to me too.

Si

rikiya

Jun 10 2004, 01:31 PM

I like it a lot but it's kinda hard on the eye to read with the blue theme going on? Maybe it'd be better if it was more dark on the theme and the back white like this theme

offroadgeek

Jun 10 2004, 02:12 PM

yes, the theme or skin will definitly be changed... i'm also partial with the lighter colors of our current forum.

DrWowe

Jun 10 2004, 04:35 PM

I think that, except for the bugs, the current forum is great just the way it is. Just my 2c.

xedx

Jun 10 2004, 09:49 PM

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I get this once in a while

Inuyasha

Jun 10 2004, 09:57 PM

My humble opinion is that the current forum is perfect. For me, anyways. I don't mind a few small "quirks" with stuff like searching and new post notifications, and I don't have any major problems. Although I do NOT like IPB for a small reason -> it's either just a trial, or it costs money, which sort of goes against my idea of software (excluding OSX [great OS, IMHO, once you setup it so you can drop onto root ;-) ], there is NO non-free piece of software I own OR use).

But hey, it's just my opinion...

ScottYelich

Jun 11 2004, 05:32 AM

I would enjoy the software that rembers your last read post by post -- not by date.
I'm for the move.

Scott

rbourne3

Jun 11 2004, 05:57 AM

I like it.It makes it easy to read new posts, and I might find the assistant useful.

jerrybme

Jun 11 2004, 06:50 AM

My vote goes to moving too. Glad to hear you'll change the skin so the color is different.
Cheers,
Jerry

edl867

Jun 11 2004, 04:57 PM

I like it.

slocaus

Jun 11 2004, 10:10 PM

IPB alloiws you to choose a skin based on your choices, if setup by the Admin. Look at My Controls, then Options, Skins and Lnguages at the lower left. I use a Mandrake IIPB board that is setup with 6 differnet skins. You can change colors to suit your preferences, and have a "light" version if you wish. I like it, as long as we do not look like the old DevNet board. :twisted:

Plus the Assistant feature that lets you view "Today's Active Posts is really nice; it avoids the missed posts when you get distracted by something like "Real Work", and come back later. 8)

http://www.invisionboard.com/?licenseOne of the best things about the Zaurus is it's open source nature. It just seems wrong for the major zaurus site to support and use non-free software.

offroadgeek

Jun 12 2004, 09:31 PM

QUOTE

I don't like it. err.... let me restate that.

I REALLY DON'T LIKE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.invisionboard.com/?licenseOne of the best things about the Zaurus is it's open source nature. It just seems wrong for the major zaurus site to support and use non-free software.

If you read a bit more, then you'd also find that they have a free version of the IPB, not that I'm saying I wouldn't pay for the license.

Just because a company sells software, that doesn't mean it's not open source. AFAIK IPB is all based on open standards, none of the code is closed source (someone please correct me if I'm wrong!).

The only difference between the licensed IPB vs. the free version is that the licensed one has a couple more features, and you get support from the company.

By the way, the original ZaurusZone and the current devnet uses IPB. It's just a really good forum.

gretchen

Jun 18 2004, 05:23 AM

I say go for the switch.....the new posts not showing up really bugged me sometimes.

zenyatta

Jun 18 2004, 05:56 AM

I am intrigued by the feature of highlighting the threads where I've posted. Seems like a very nice touch, especially if it can be configured to only remind me of recent (n weeks) posts.

offroadgeek: I'm a bit confused by your matter-of-course willingness to purchase the license. $200 certainly means different things to different people yet I would expect extensive nagging for donations when discussing a matter of such obvious "public benefit". Perhaps it's just my kuro5hin experience speaking :-) . And perhaps $200 gets lost in your regular hosting costs?

Shame my country is still off limits to PayPal...

z.

Hotrodder

Jun 20 2004, 04:52 PM

QUOTE

QUOTE

I don't like it. err.... let me restate that.

I REALLY DON'T LIKE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.invisionboard.com/?licenseOne of the best things about the Zaurus is it's open source nature. It just seems wrong for the major zaurus site to support and use non-free software.

If you read a bit more, then you'd also find that they have a free version of the IPB, not that I'm saying I wouldn't pay for the license.

Just because a company sells software, that doesn't mean it's not open source. AFAIK IPB is all based on open standards, none of the code is closed source (someone please correct me if I'm wrong!).

The only difference between the licensed IPB vs. the free version is that the licensed one has a couple more features, and you get support from the company.

By the way, the original ZaurusZone and the current devnet uses IPB. It's just a really good forum.

It seems to me you don't quite understand open source. It's not about cost... It's not being able to see the source. it's about freedom!

You may not: permit other individuals to use the Software except under the terms listed above

reverse engineer, disassemble, or create derivative works based on the Software for distribution or usage outside your web site excluding those applications described above

use the Software in such as way as to condone or encourage terrorism, promote or provide pirated Software, or any other form of illegal or damaging activity

modify and/or remove any copyright notices or labels on the Software on each page (unless full license is purchase) and in the header of each script source file

distribute the Software

distribute individual copies of files, libraries, or other programming material in the Software package

distribute or modify proprietary graphics, HTML, or CSS packaged with the Software for use in Software applications other than Invision Power Board or web sites without written permission from IPS

Just look at all the options we have for what os to run on our zaurus's that would not be possible under a license like invision uses.

offroadgeek

Jun 20 2004, 08:30 PM

hotrodder - then maybe you can enlighten me. What is open source???

it seems that you conveniently left out an important section in their license:

CODE

SCOPE OF GRANT

You may:

customize the Software's design and operation to suit the internal needs of your web site

produce and distribute modification instructions, Skin packs, or Language packs provided that they contain notification that the Skin and Language packs were exported from and originally created by Invision Power Board and/or IPS. The modifications instructions you personally create are not owned by IPS so long as they contain no proprietary coding from Invision Power Board.

create applications which interface with the operation of the Software provided said application is an original work

Now, as I understand the first line, we can modify the forum software to do whatever we want, as long as it is the same forum software that I purchased for the ZUG site.

So please, tell me what "freedoms" we are missing by this license...

offroadgeek

Jun 21 2004, 01:23 PM

QUOTE

offroadgeek: I'm a bit confused by your matter-of-course willingness to purchase the license. $200 certainly means different things to different people yet I would expect extensive nagging for donations when discussing a matter of such obvious "public benefit". Perhaps it's just my kuro5hin experience speaking :-) . And perhaps $200 gets lost in your regular hosting costs?

Shame my country is still off limits to PayPal...

z.

You're right... $200 is a good chunk of money to spend on this, but I do really feel that it's worth it to get the many benefits the new forum would provide to our community.

Regarding the donations, I don't ever want to nag the community for donations. I figure that people will donate when they are able to.

Also, the google ads are providing to be somewhat helpful. In the three weeks since I first added the ads to the current forum, it's generated about $84. Now that's not nearly enough to cover the costs of hosting, but it's a step in the right direction.

I would rather see people support the zug by clicking on a few ads regularly (clicking thru two or so links is helpful) than donating their own $$.

I'm also planning on providing regular monthly reports on the ZUG showing the hosting costs, and the advertising revenue. The goal is to obviously get the hosting costs completely covered, and any extra $$ made would go back into the community in the form of development efforts (donations to developers for specific tasks) and/or providing needed hardware to development efforts.

lardman

Jun 21 2004, 02:44 PM

QUOTE

I'm also planning on providing regular monthly reports on the ZUG showing the hosting costs, and the advertising revenue. The goal is to obviously get the hosting costs completely covered, and any extra $$ made would go back into the community in the form of development efforts (donations to developers for specific tasks) and/or providing needed hardware to development efforts.

I'd be interested to see this. I was never sure how much money people get from advertising.

I'll start clicking ;-)

Si

P.S. Assuming, as I do, that you have decided to move over (yay!), when do you think it'll happen?

offroadgeek

Jun 21 2004, 04:28 PM

QUOTE

P.S. Assuming, as I do, that you have decided to move over (yay!), when do you think it'll happen?

I'm actually planning on moving the site to the new server (at home on my new SDSL connection) tonight... I'll post an announcement with the details of the downtime very soon... if that is a smooth cut over, I may just decide to cut over to the new forum tonight as well (while we have down time).

The site is already built on the new server and the new forums are built as well... I just need to do a database refresh to make sure it's all in sync with the latest posts.. etc.

padishah_emperor

Jun 22 2004, 07:53 AM

I've got to say I absolutely hate this new forum, it's not as easy to use, I can't even find my postings, oh well, it was good while it lasted, but this new forum is frustrating to use.

offroadgeek

Jun 22 2004, 08:15 AM

QUOTE(padishah_emperor @ Jun 22 2004, 07:53 AM)

I've got to say I absolutely hate this new forum, it's not as easy to use, I can't even find my postings, oh well, it was good while it lasted, but this new forum is frustrating to use.

that's just because this forum is new to you... I assume you never used the devnet board before it went away last December?

You'll get used to it, and eventually realize the benefits. (embrace change)

btw - much of the feedback I got on the old phpBB2 forums was from members who've been around for a while saying that they like this or that feature of the old devnet board.

bluedevils

Jun 22 2004, 08:22 AM

I've lost some posts I made this morning. Will they be synced back up or are they lost forever?

lardman

Jun 22 2004, 09:04 AM

It's got to be said, the skin which the board came with by default (though it's not the default skin, strange) is pretty nasty.

I changed it to the default (so it now looks like the devnet) which is much nicer (IMHO).

Si

tumnus

Jun 22 2004, 09:21 AM

Yes, while the minimalist graphics are ok, the layout is horrible and completely different to most other forums.

On the upside, whether it's because the Invision code is more efficient or the HTML is slimmer, the forums seem snappier.

BTW, offroadgeek, does your SDSL service have a guarenteed availability? Do you have an UPS and RAID array, etc on your server? Just wondering how th uptime will be since you're hosting it yourself now.

offroadgeek

Jun 22 2004, 12:40 PM

QUOTE(lardman @ Jun 22 2004, 09:04 AM)

It's got to be said, the skin which the board came with by default (though it's not the default skin, strange) is pretty nasty.

I changed it to the default (so it now looks like the devnet) which is much nicer (IMHO).

Si

I also don't like this skin very much... but I thought people would like it better than the default IPB one. Personally, I like the graphics and the icons that come with the default IPB skin, but I would want to customize the overall color scheme (to be different from devnet).

I would be happy to change the default skin to be the one IPB comes with... as long as people don't mind waiting for me to customize the colors.

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