Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Mat 12:31 Because of this, I say to you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men, but the blasphemy concerning the Spirit shall not be forgiven to men.

I have considered that these two verses are not speaking to the same people, nor are they speaking of the same sin.

The verse in Hebrews is speaking to those who have been converted to Christianity and then later 'trampled the blood of Christ underfoot' by converting back to animal sacrifices. There remains no more sacrifice for them because they do not accept the only sacrifice that is available for them. They will then suffer the tribulation and anguish when the temple is destroyed with no hope.

The verse in Mathew seems to be to Pharasees who do not believe Jesus is the Christ. There blasphemy is that they are calling good evil, and will therefore suffer the consequences according to there own mouth.

Just an observation Iv'e made.

Hey Sarah, Don't you think these words are spoken to all people. Scripture is alive and is working in all people all the time.

I have personally trodden under foot the Son God and I fully expect this sin not to be forgiven. I hope it is to be crucified.

cp

Logged

For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Zeek

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Mat 12:31 Because of this, I say to you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men, but the blasphemy concerning the Spirit shall not be forgiven to men.

I have considered that these two verses are not speaking to the same people, nor are they speaking of the same sin.

The verse in Hebrews is speaking to those who have been converted to Christianity and then later 'trampled the blood of Christ underfoot' by converting back to animal sacrifices. There remains no more sacrifice for them because they do not accept the only sacrifice that is available for them. They will then suffer the tribulation and anguish when the temple is destroyed with no hope.

The verse in Mathew seems to be to Pharasees who do not believe Jesus is the Christ. There blasphemy is that they are calling good evil, and will therefore suffer the consequences according to there own mouth.

Just an observation Iv'e made.

Hey Sarah, Don't you think these words are spoken to all people. Scripture is alive and is working in all people all the time.

I have personally trodden under foot the Son God and I fully expect this sin not to be forgiven. I hope it is to be crucified.

cp

for me, no

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD:

no matter how hard we try, God is not in an old covenant relationship with us.

that is not to say there isn't spiritual lessons we can learn and apply; but imo; the only "old covenant" we are under is one we "set up in our own minds" with God; not one he sets up with us.

those to go through the "fire" in Hebrews 10 and 12; are those who were in "covenant" with God, who failed to see/accept that the old covenant was fulfilled in Christ.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Mat 12:31 Because of this, I say to you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men, but the blasphemy concerning the Spirit shall not be forgiven to men.

I have considered that these two verses are not speaking to the same people, nor are they speaking of the same sin.

The verse in Hebrews is speaking to those who have been converted to Christianity and then later 'trampled the blood of Christ underfoot' by converting back to animal sacrifices. There remains no more sacrifice for them because they do not accept the only sacrifice that is available for them. They will then suffer the tribulation and anguish when the temple is destroyed with no hope.

The verse in Mathew seems to be to Pharasees who do not believe Jesus is the Christ. There blasphemy is that they are calling good evil, and will therefore suffer the consequences according to there own mouth.

Just an observation Iv'e made.

Hey Sarah, Don't you think these words are spoken to all people. Scripture is alive and is working in all people all the time.

I have personally trodden under foot the Son God and I fully expect this sin not to be forgiven. I hope it is to be crucified.

cp

for me, no

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD:

no matter how hard we try, God is not in an old covenant relationship with us.

that is not to say there isn't spiritual lessons we can learn and apply; but imo; the only "old covenant" we are under is one we "set up in our own minds" with God; not one he sets up with us.

those to go through the "fire" in Hebrews 10 and 12; are those who were in "covenant" with God, who failed to see/accept that the old covenant was fulfilled in Christ.

that is was vanishing away.

Zeek, I fall into living in the 'old covenant' all the time. This sure does clash with the freedom that Jesus Christ has wrought and is working within my being but it is a perfect explanation of what seems to be happening to me as I go from grace to grace.

It sure is vanishing away though but the key here is it is in the process of vanishing away.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Mat 12:31 Because of this, I say to you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men, but the blasphemy concerning the Spirit shall not be forgiven to men.

I have considered that these two verses are not speaking to the same people, nor are they speaking of the same sin.

The verse in Hebrews is speaking to those who have been converted to Christianity and then later 'trampled the blood of Christ underfoot' by converting back to animal sacrifices. There remains no more sacrifice for them because they do not accept the only sacrifice that is available for them. They will then suffer the tribulation and anguish when the temple is destroyed with no hope.

The verse in Mathew seems to be to Pharasees who do not believe Jesus is the Christ. There blasphemy is that they are calling good evil, and will therefore suffer the consequences according to there own mouth.

Just an observation Iv'e made.

Hey Sarah, Don't you think these words are spoken to all people. Scripture is alive and is working in all people all the time.

I have personally trodden under foot the Son God and I fully expect this sin not to be forgiven. I hope it is to be crucified.

cp

for me, no

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD:

no matter how hard we try, God is not in an old covenant relationship with us.

that is not to say there isn't spiritual lessons we can learn and apply; but imo; the only "old covenant" we are under is one we "set up in our own minds" with God; not one he sets up with us.

those to go through the "fire" in Hebrews 10 and 12; are those who were in "covenant" with God, who failed to see/accept that the old covenant was fulfilled in Christ.

that is was vanishing away.

Zeek, I fall into living in the 'old covenant' all the time. This sure does clash with the freedom that Jesus Christ has wrought and is working within my being but it is a perfect explanation of what seems to be happening to me as I go from grace to grace.

It sure is vanishing away though but the key here is it is in the process of vanishing away.

cp

yes, you fall into it,

but God is not in old covenant with yu, even if u fall into it. make any sense??

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Mat 12:31 Because of this, I say to you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men, but the blasphemy concerning the Spirit shall not be forgiven to men.

I have considered that these two verses are not speaking to the same people, nor are they speaking of the same sin.

The verse in Hebrews is speaking to those who have been converted to Christianity and then later 'trampled the blood of Christ underfoot' by converting back to animal sacrifices. There remains no more sacrifice for them because they do not accept the only sacrifice that is available for them. They will then suffer the tribulation and anguish when the temple is destroyed with no hope.

The verse in Mathew seems to be to Pharasees who do not believe Jesus is the Christ. There blasphemy is that they are calling good evil, and will therefore suffer the consequences according to there own mouth.

Just an observation Iv'e made.

Hey Sarah, Don't you think these words are spoken to all people. Scripture is alive and is working in all people all the time.

I have personally trodden under foot the Son God and I fully expect this sin not to be forgiven. I hope it is to be crucified.

cp

for me, no

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD:

no matter how hard we try, God is not in an old covenant relationship with us.

that is not to say there isn't spiritual lessons we can learn and apply; but imo; the only "old covenant" we are under is one we "set up in our own minds" with God; not one he sets up with us.

those to go through the "fire" in Hebrews 10 and 12; are those who were in "covenant" with God, who failed to see/accept that the old covenant was fulfilled in Christ.

that is was vanishing away.

Zeek, I fall into living in the 'old covenant' all the time. This sure does clash with the freedom that Jesus Christ has wrought and is working within my being but it is a perfect explanation of what seems to be happening to me as I go from grace to grace.

It sure is vanishing away though but the key here is it is in the process of vanishing away.

cp

yes, you fall into it,

but God is not in old covenant with yu, even if u fall into it. make any sense??

Yes Brother, makes all the sense in the world. God is always pulling me into the New.

cp

Logged

For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

trettep

Hi, please I really need your help. I think I have committed the unforgivable sin. I was on bed reading the word of God and came by the scripture which talks about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Instantly I thought a disgusting thought in my head. Curse words came into my head and I don't know how but I cursed the Holy Spirit. Sometime it comes back into my head and I hate it.

I don't know why this happened, but after reading on the internet I saw that it had happened to other people. I don't hate the Holy Spirit, I love God and I was even praying that the Holy Spirit would come into me and help me to serve God better. I was really hungry for God and growing spiritually each day. Now I am absolutely terrified that I am going to Hell, it is so frightening.

It has ruined me and I have stopped going to church. No matter how much I read about it on sites like these and people tell me that I haven't committed this sin I still think I am lost forever. It seems nothing can comfort me because I am just so unsure. How can I know, or anyone else know for sure? Doesn't it say that if you committ this sin that you while not be forgiven in this age, or the age to come and that all blasphemy shall be forgiven, but blasphemy against the holy spirit will not? I want forgiveness so badly, but it feels so far away from me, I feel like I am beyond forgiveness.Please please help me, thanks, Chris.

Hi SeekerSA, to "blaspheme" means to DEFAME or as the latin I read once in an old manuscript said "to hold cheap". It means to devalue something. If we say God is all powerful and yet show otherwise in the things we do or say and purposely devalue His very nature and character then we are devaluing the very BEING of God. We are presenting a LESSER god then what God actually is and passing it off as if that is God's nature. If we have been enlightened to the Truth and act contrarywise to this enlightenment then we are in affect committing blasphemy against that which enlightens us (The Holy Spirit). And for such there is not forgiveness. But doesn't this means we are never to be saved? - no. For consider a fire that can't be extinguished (unquenchable fire), that fire will burn and burn until it runs out of or exhausts all its fuel. This is what shall happen to us. For when we blasphemed the Holy Spirit we have built up a fuel that can't be quenched that must be consumed. Like the unforgiving servant, we must be punished until we have paid back all the debt that is owed but eventually the debt gets paid.

Tim B

I was dealing with this exact same issue, and do still at times, but God has shown me that he forgives all, OF EVERY ONE OF MY SINS, just as he promised this to David.

Consider Isaiah 55:3:

3, Incline your ear [submit and consent to the divine will] and come to Me; hear, and your soul will revive; and I will make an everlasting covenant or league with you, even the sure mercy (kindness, goodwill, and compassion) promised to David. All that God promised to David is promised to us!

So God said: when he would make his new covenant with mankind he would promise us exactly the same love that he promised to David. This is what David said concerning God's forgiveness in Psalms 103:

"1BLESS (AFFECTIONATELY, gratefully praise) the Lord, O my soul; and all that is [deepest] within me, bless His holy name! 2Bless (affectionately, gratefully praise) the Lord, O my soul, and forget not [one of] all His benefits--

3Who forgives [every one of] all your iniquities, Who heals [each one of] all your diseases,".

Also consider what God promises Isreal through David in Psalms 130:

"8And He will redeem Israel from all their iniquities."

Pharisees are included in Israel. God literally promised the forgiveness of ALL OF EVERY ONE OF OUR SINS! So don't worry friend, God has forgiven you, just as he promised he would!

I believe J. Preston Eby teaches that only those in that age (age of Law, prior to the cross and the "age of grace") were the only ones that even could commit the sin Jesus was talking about. That the "age to come" is actually now...so all will be reconciled in the future, just as you say.

Livelystone

IMO to blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to not allow the conviction of sin that is made apparent from the presence of the Holy Spirit in us to bring us to repentance

Therefore those who do so "fall away" and continue to live in their sins and it is no longer possible to bring them to repentance. They have turned their back on God and now await the fearful judgement written of in Hebrews.

Hbr 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Hbr 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Hbr 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

Hbr 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned.

Hbr 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

When exactly have you 'tasted'When someone stuffed a tract in your hand when you where drunk.Or when you see angels appear and have lenghty converstation with you?Both are extremes I'm aware of that. But where is "this at minimum" point?

Logged

1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Livelystone

IMO when one has been baptized in the Holy Spirt they have then tasted of the good things

The many calls that individuals get upon them to come to the Lord are the works of God but I would phrase that for lack of knowing how better to word it would be the difference between a work upon somebody versus a work within someone.

IMO we have been saved to overcome sin and get started on the path to Holiness of to sin no more. However and unfortunately there are those Christians who think nothing of lying, stealing etc etc. They have become comfortable with sin despite having tasted of Him (we are to drink His blood and eat His flesh) and have fallen away as a dog that returns to his vomit.

Hebrews 6:4-6, AV...4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance...

"Repentance" is a MIND word: meta (g)noia, meta MIND, after-mind, change-mind, which is very imnportant here; because, having a new mind, the mind of Christ, and then falling away, another new mind is not going to happen. There is recovery at this point, as best as I understand. One must change behaviour, bringing it back in line with Christ and the gospel. In the subsequent vs.7-8 the rain is used to illustrate

"But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned." (Hb 6:8) Some serious weeding is on the agenda. Those are what are making the land unfruitful, "the cares of this life and the abundance of riches" according to Jesus.

A little later He points to Abraham's patient endurance to obtain the prize.

Logged

I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program! JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!! MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Hebrews 6:4-6, AV..."Repentance" is a MIND word: meta (g)noia, meta MIND, after-mind, change-mind, which is very imnportant here; because, having a new mind, the mind of Christ, and then falling away, another new mind is not going to happen. There is recovery at this point, as best as I understand. One must change behaviour, bringing it back in line with Christ and the gospel. In the subsequent vs.7-8 the rain is used to illustrate

"But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned." (Hb 6:8) Some serious weeding is on the agenda. Those are what are making the land unfruitful, "the cares of this life and the abundance of riches" according to Jesus.

Logged

Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith. Heb. 12:2

Johann

Conservative anabaptists (Amish, Brethren, and Mennonite) teach that the unforgivable sin is willfully turning away from the workings of the Holy Spirit in your heart and resuming a life of blantant sin. Continuing in a universalist vein, the way Hans Denck and some of the Ante-Nicene fathers interpret it: man can not achieve victory over sin on their own, the Holy Spirit is the only agent that can purify the heart. A person who overcomes sin in this life with the help of the Holy Spirit does not need to fear the fiery judgment of God in the Lake of Fire. Someone who rejects the Holy Spirit in this life and lives a sinful life will not be forgiven his sins and will need to be judged, purified, and baptized by the Holy Spirit in the Lake of Fire before they can come to God.

Conservative anabaptists (Amish, Brethren, and Mennonite) teach that the unforgivable sin is willfully turning away from the workings of the Holy Spirit in your heart and resuming a life of blantant sin. Continuing in a universalist vein, the way Hans Denck and some of the Ante-Nicene fathers interpret it: man can not achieve victory over sin on their own, the Holy Spirit is the only agent that can purify the heart. A person who overcomes sin in this life with the help of the Holy Spirit does not need to fear the fiery judgment of God in the Lake of Fire. Someone who rejects the Holy Spirit in this life and lives a sinful life will not be forgiven his sins and will need to be judged, purified, and baptized by the Holy Spirit in the Lake of Fire before they can come to God.

But near His death Jesus said: "Forgive them Father they don't know what they do."Isn't rejecting the HS the same? Perhaps most people don't even notice the HS being at work? Plus can you actually reject the HS if the HS has done it's job well? It takes evil to reject HS. So the HS is rejected by the part of you that isn't transformed yet.The HS was send because someone is in the wrong state of mind. Is it suprising the HS is rejected because that's basicly the reason it came in the first place. Rejecting Father/Son/HS is all the same thing for me.

Does that make any sense?

Logged

1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Livelystone

Conservative anabaptists (Amish, Brethren, and Mennonite) teach that the unforgivable sin is willfully turning away from the workings of the Holy Spirit in your heart and resuming a life of blantant sin. Continuing in a universalist vein, the way Hans Denck and some of the Ante-Nicene fathers interpret it: man can not achieve victory over sin on their own, the Holy Spirit is the only agent that can purify the heart. A person who overcomes sin in this life with the help of the Holy Spirit does not need to fear the fiery judgment of God in the Lake of Fire. Someone who rejects the Holy Spirit in this life and lives a sinful life will not be forgiven his sins and will need to be judged, purified, and baptized by the Holy Spirit in the Lake of Fire before they can come to God.

But near His death Jesus said: "Forgive them Father they don't know what they do."Isn't rejecting the HS the same? Perhaps most people don't even notice the HS being at work? Plus can you actually reject the HS if the HS has done it's job well? It takes evil to reject HS. So the HS is rejected by the part of you that isn't transformed yet.The HS was send because someone is in the wrong state of mind. Is it suprising the HS is rejected because that's basicly the reason it came in the first place. Rejecting Father/Son/HS is all the same thing for me.

Does that make any sense?

One receives the Holy Spirit because they have sought after God but then when one resists the working of the Holy Spirit they are then taking His Name in vain (by the old definition of vanity) and without repenting "crucify Him afresh" that in turn allows the unclean spirit to regain control of their heart

Paul Hazelwood

Many times this term "unpardonable sin" is a stepping stone to reinforce Gods judgments for an eternal hell.

But the passage on blasphemy is about suffering the consequenses and paying the penalty.

A penalty is paid so no forgiveness is required. As I said in a previous message, this sin is about reaping what we sow, a penalty is required to be paid and everyone will pay it so there is still no danger of eternal hell or anihillation concerning this.

trettep

Many times this term "unpardonable sin" is a stepping stone to reinforce Gods judgments for an eternal hell.

But the passage on blasphemy is about suffering the consequenses and paying the penalty.

A penalty is paid so no forgiveness is required. As I said in a previous message, this sin is about reaping what we sow, a penalty is required to be paid and everyone will pay it so there is still no danger of eternal hell or anihillation concerning this.

Yes Paul. This is exactly what those verses mean. The unforgiving servant is an exmaple of this. In that parable the servant receives forgiveness of his sins and then doesn't forgive others of the same sins against him. Anytime we hold God's Truth out as a lie or of vain use (knowing otherwise) then we commit blasphemy. Ever notice the Beast in Revelation has a name? - that name is Blasphemy. That can only pertain to an entity that knows the Truth and doesn't adhere to it. To know the Truth and continue in sin.

One receives the Holy Spirit because they have sought after God but then when one resists the working of the Holy Spirit they are then taking His Name in vain (by the old definition of vanity) and without repenting "crucify Him afresh" that in turn allows the unclean spirit to regain control of their heart

I wonder if that's true. It's a bit of a chicken and egg question.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him...."come to me"=man asking the HS"draw"=sending the HS by Father

So I wonder if those who need HS (most) are searching for God.

Logged

1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Livelystone

One receives the Holy Spirit because they have sought after God but then when one resists the working of the Holy Spirit they are then taking His Name in vain (by the old definition of vanity) and without repenting "crucify Him afresh" that in turn allows the unclean spirit to regain control of their heart

I wonder if that's true. It's a bit of a chicken and egg question.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him...."come to me"=man asking the HS"draw"=sending the HS by Father

How are you determining who needs the HS most?........ have not all fallen short and in need of salvation?

What do you mean by the chicken or egg question ?.......... can someone receive forgiveness or Jesus Blood shed for the cleansing of sins without FIRST going to the Cross............ can someone come into the presence of God without His Blood for a cover

Was Paul wrong when he preached of the power of the Cross ............or was he right

It's just an expression we have here. You know what was first the chicken or the egg.a] In this case did the HS come to the person because the person searched?b] Or did the person search in because the HS already came.

John 6:44 seems to say b

Quote

Was Paul wrong when he preached of the power of the Cross ............or was he right

What are you trying to say? And how is it relevant for this topic?

Quote

How are you determining who needs the HS most?........ have not all fallen short and in need of salvation?

Seems very obvious to me but is not really relevant to this topic.

Logged

1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

The sin is defined as attributing that of God to the devil. But from what I understand about the circumstances, the Pharisees were right there all along when Jesus was performing his miracles, and it seemed like it was pretty convincing, but the Pharisees had such hard hearts towards anything against their system of theology that they refused to even see Jesus as the son of God, despite all the miracles. They should have seen it, but instead blamed it on satan. Plus it seems logical that the most hardened would take the longest time to be forgiven due to extreme stubborness.

But what I wondering about attributing something of God to the Devil mean you mistaked something Godly for being demonic, due to limited knowledge. Problem is, I have accused many things of being demonic, like various Marian Apparitions, the Government, the Current Church system, illness, annoyances from relatives, ect. Mostly because they yeilded bad fruits, and not because of any pre-concieved notion.