Puma: GM and Segway take a swing at a small car

Take two companies whose products are sort of a joke, slap them together, and here's the result: The P.U.M.A., a sort of giant, two-person Segway that is designed for commuters, with a 35-mile range from its lithium-ion batteries. It has a top speed of 35 MPH, which is plenty for city cruising.

What it isn't is good-looking, but bear in mind it's a prototype, which explains the caution stripes and (presumably) the lack of any real weather proofing.

Both companies hope to have the Puma on the road by 2012. It's cute and I'd love to play around with one, but I sort of don't even care anymore. All these interesting runabouts get teased, then never actually appear—or if they do, they're overpriced and impractical.

“The companies did not release a projected cost for the vehicle, but said ideally its total operating cost – including purchase price, insurance, maintenance and fuel – would total between one-fourth and one-third of that of the average traditional vehicle.”

Of course, what GM thinks is an average traditional vehicle is subject to debate.

The article also mentions that there is no time-line for production and that they are looking for a place, such as a college campus, where the vehicles could be put to use and grab a foothold in the market.

GM might actually have a lot riding on this. But hell, think of all the parking that this would open up in major cities.

GM may not be a joke, but GM’s prototypes and predictions for 2012 are a joke. No one at GM actually believes the company will be around in 2012. Which means they can promise anything at all for 2012. I’m surprised they haven’t told us about their solar powered flying car, slated for production in 2012.

I wonder about the front wheels and steep grades (not sure those little stablizer wheels would like 35mph).
Also, great as a commuter – but it also needs to help me haul some groceries – which does look possible if the shopping is done in pairs.
The Segway / Puma site has a rendering of the vehicle with a skin for operating in less than optimal climates — which makes it look like a rickshaw without the tow bars.
Speaking of inclement weather – what is the ice / snow traction possibilities?
Also, Segways are weigh rated for only up to 200 – 250 lbs — will this thing be able to carry more than 500 lbs?

I don’t see why they bothered with the 2-wheel Segway tech. At that size, why not use existing technology and just make a cheap electric SmartCar clone? Why not just ride an actual segway in a bike lane or take a street legal scooter on the road? I’m all for alternate transport methods and developing new technology, but I can’t see this as anything more than a novelty.

I think the most interesting part of the project is making the vehicles self-driving. I just don’t think that feature is ever going to get off the ground though. It certainly is a great concept, but too much Disney EPCOT for people to accept I think.

Nice idea, yet impractical. Whereever this was developed, does it ever rain there? You’d get totally drenched without some doors. There isn’t enough space for a handbag (which could get snatched anyway thanks to the absence of doors), let alone groceries – so if I wanted to buy a small car, I’d rather go for a Smart.
And if I want something ecological sound and slow, I can simply stay on my bike.

The problem with electric motorcycles and scooters is that you’re out in the weather. This may be fine for people who live in always-balmy climes, but here, it rains a fair amount, snows occasionally, and is often quite cold.

There have been some (surprisingly expensive) motorcycles with mostly-enclosed compartments for riders (e.g., the BMW C-100). This Puma is a variation on those, really.

Teapunk,
The fact that the prototype doesn’t have doors doesn’t mean that the completed model won’t. I think this is more a case of proving that the technology works rather than aesthetics and rain-proofing.

It looks like it’s made with composites and aluminum, which is unfortunate. If they used steel, they could simply weld it shut, doubling as a coffin after a collision with anything larger than a cicada.

Well, from what I gather, the whole idea is that these would operate in an area without cars and with automated driving systems to avoid collisions over all. Read the AP article about it. It is all very interesting if they can pull it off. I don’t think that they WILL but it is an interesting concept.

But folks, everyone is talking about these things in a wreck. Purely electric vehicles are going to tend to be light. They will ALL have the same issues in a collision. Heck, the Zero weighs 225 pounds. Hit that with a car and it’ll just go sailing into the stratosphere….

I think the problem with using a third wheel instead of this “balancing” technology is that anything with that high a center of gravity and that small of a footprint is likely to tip over with a conventional drive system.

I don’t recall that “too many wheels” was one of the major issues that engineers had to address when coming up with the perfect commuter vehicle. I don’t see the point of its “Segwayness”. Add a third wheel, or even a fourth one. The design doesn’t do anything to address the real issues of range, charging infrastructure, cost, safety, and obesity.

Whilst I just ride a bike myself, I still kind-of like the idea of an electric version of the Piaggio trike as a commuter for the terminally lazy.

I’m a huge admirer of Kamen (7-year volunteer for the FIRST Robotics competition, which is Kamen’s baby) but the Segway itself seemed to have been designed entirely to impress engineers; the question “Uh, Dean, how is this better than walking?” apparently never came up.

This gadget does address the Segway’s most glaring minuses–there’s a place to sit down, a place for a friend (or a kid), a place to put your stuff, and it looks like someone who had trouble walking in the first place could use it (unlike the Segway).

I got faith. The first calculator I ever saw (early 70s) cost a thousand bucks, only added, subtracted, multiplied and divided and was considered an engineering marvel (1). Now they give those away free with a new bank account.

This is going to turn into something cheap and terrific in another decade or so.

(1) It blows me away that the calculations that put a man on the moon were primarily done on slide rules.

interesting take on green transportation. i’d love to use something like this to get around town, but i feel unsafe on a bicycle or scooter already. i think a vehicle like this would take more trust in other drivers than i have.

What the hell is wrong with engineers? I was promised a future that would give us anti-gravity enabled flying cars, Mr. Fusion, and the hoverboard, and instead I got the “flying car” (an airplane that has wings which fold up is still an airplane, no matter what you call it), a jet pack that flies for 90 seconds and a 2 seater segway. This is the future? This two seater douche-mobile? This future makes me feel as gypped as Charie Brown on Halloween with a sackful of rocks. When I see the stupidity and wasted time and money of things like this P.U.M.A, I feel like taking every engineer in the world and locking them in a warehouse and not letting them out until they’ve at least figured out a real-world teleportation device that actually works.

Oh I was going to say PIKE! But I saw it right off, this is not a car its the perfect outdoor wheelchair! Remember thats how Segway got its start with chairs that could climb stairs. Now they have a practical outdoor anti tip wheelchair that can go faster than the average (drool running off a chin speed…booooooooooring) I want one!

@Ceronomus:
fine, just a concept. I live in middle/northern Europe, if a concept doesn’t include weatherproofing against rain, sleet, hail, snow, whathaveyou, I lose interest in the concept rather quickly. There isn’t even space for doors, if you attach doors to this concept the Puma would fit really snug, like some fish tank or a box.

Electric vehicles are not “zero emissions” as a commenter above has said. The emissions are produced at the plant making the electricity. Yes, some electricity is lower in emissions, such as wind, but most of our electricity today comes from burning coal and natural gas.

Can someone tell me the point of having 2 wheels (over 3) aside from wasting energy balancing to show off a technology without a real market? Don’t say turning radius, because a 3 wheeled vehicle can accomplish nearly the same as this could.

No city has the infrastructure for this – it’s the same claim they made about the Segway, that we’d change he infrastructure to fit it because it was so revolutionary – and what’s the Segway almost a decade later? An expensive yuppie toy.

Not to mention that by the time they outfit this to become DOT certified I’d be INCREDIBLY surprised if it were able to hold the 35 mile/35MPH claim. Not to mention that this WILL be overpriced – much like the Segway is today. I can say that with near certainty. I should go modify wikipedia and add this to the term “inefficient” because it fits the bill pretty well.

This just seems like GM grasping at straws to stay afloat – because it’s just way too early to show off something like this, they might as well have thrown a cardboard box on a Segway – this is just as viable in its current state. Hell, concept cars without engines are more reasonable than this.

It’s a good thing GM didn’t announce this on April 1st, because even the one person who sees this in a positive light wouldn’t believe it.

There is no way on God’s green earth this thing could pass crash-safety standards. Not even if it had a titanium frame and a the black stuff was top-notch carbon fiber. At least no way unless the safety standards are relaxed or ignored, which I wouldn’t think impossible, sadly enough.

I don’t get it. GM already has a multi-year partnership with a fellow American company through which they produce a two-wheeled, zero-emission, urban transport module. The company is called Kent International, INC and they make BICYCLES! These are just as unsafe in a vehicular collision as the PUMA, provide the same protection from the elements as the prototype; but have an UNLIMITED range based on the occupant not on electricity, use no fossil fuels after production, cost 1/40th that of a ‘traditional average’ vehicle — and just like this hyper-tech pram for grown-ups, could use a separate, but integrated infrastructure for users to be most safe and to transit most efficiently. Further, its a centuries-old, already proven technology and you can also get the lower-cost, equally effective Asian model at most retailers. Perfect for the American market.
So GM, the $$ from the 18 months of R&D for the new electric golf cart should have gone to bike advocacy programs and bike lane programs. You’re welcome for that fat chunk of taxes though. It seems, now, like it couldn’t possible go to waste. Not.

I am surprised that more people aren’t comparing this to an electric golf cart (#73). I would say that the market space that this vehicle is attempting to fill – tiny city transport, with a friend or packages, low environmental impact (electric), tiny – can adequately be filled by several existing alternatives like smart cars, electric golf carts or bicycles. Yet this market space is not filled by them. What’s missing from these offerings? I can’t imagine success in the same arena with an even more expensive option. ABC news said the expected price would be $6000. Perhaps it is less about the vehicle than about the delivery of the service of moving people around.

In my opinion, I just think most people are not in fact looking for a cheap, small, environmentally low impact way of getting around a city, present company excepted.

I am surprised that more people aren’t comparing this to an electric golf cart (#73). I would say that the market space that this vehicle is attempting to fill – tiny city transport, with a friend or packages, low environmental impact (electric), tiny – can adequately be filled by several existing alternatives like smart cars, electric golf carts or bicycles. Yet this market space is not filled by them. What’s missing from these offerings? I can’t imagine success in the same arena with an even more expensive option. ABC news said the expected price would be $6000. Perhaps it is less about the vehicle than about the delivery of the service of moving people around.

In my opinion, I just think most people are not in fact looking for a cheap, small, environmentally low impact way of getting around a city, present company excepted.

I am surprised that more people aren’t comparing this to an electric golf cart (#73). I would say that the market space that this vehicle is attempting to fill – tiny city transport, with a friend or packages, low environmental impact (electric), tiny – can adequately be filled by several existing alternatives like smart cars, electric golf carts or bicycles. Yet this market space is not filled by them. What’s missing from these offerings? I can’t imagine success in the same arena with an even more expensive option. ABC news said the expected price would be $6000. Perhaps it is less about the vehicle than about the delivery of the service of moving people around.

In my opinion, I just think most people are not in fact looking for a cheap, small, environmentally low impact way of getting around a city, present company excepted.

I am surprised that more people aren’t comparing this to an electric golf cart (#73). I would say that the market space that this vehicle is attempting to fill – tiny city transport, with a friend or packages, low environmental impact (electric), tiny – can adequately be filled by several existing alternatives like smart cars, electric golf carts or bicycles. Yet this market space is not filled by them. What’s missing from these offerings? I can’t imagine success in the same arena with an even more expensive option. ABC news said the expected price would be $6000. Perhaps it is less about the vehicle than about the delivery of the service of moving people around.

In my opinion, I just think most people are not in fact looking for a cheap, small, environmentally low impact way of getting around a city, present company excepted.

Erm, you can’t say “it only goes 35 mph — why wouldn’t I just walk or bike?” Do you walk or bike at 35mph? Does your bike easily hold another 200 lbs in the passenger seat?

or take the bus or a cab… ?

you can say that about a car as well. Do you post “why would I want this car when I could take a cab” on all car reviews?

padster123:

The problem with this thing is not the thing itself – it’s OTHER vehicles.

Anonymous:

There is no way on God’s green earth this thing could pass crash-safety standards.

The same can be said for bicycles, yet they are allowed on city roads in most cities. This is clearly no designed for the highway. In terms of crash safty, this is at least as safe as a bike or a motorscooter.

TheAwesomeRobot:

Can someone tell me the point of having 2 wheels (over 3) aside from wasting energy balancing to show off a technology without a real market? Don’t say turning radius, because a 3 wheeled vehicle can accomplish nearly the same as this could.

As someone above noted, it keeps the footprint much smaller. A four-wheeled version of this, without the self-balancing, could not keep upright and would not be stable. To make it stable, it would need a larger footprint, which would diminish its usefulness.

No city has the infrastructure for this

Bikes can ride on city roads, as can motorscooters. I see no reason why this should be different.

Jack:

Okay, now after a day of bafflement, how is this thing “green”?

Because it is an all-electric, light vehicle.

A) Being electric means that it burns energy that was produced either renewably or by a coal powerplant that is many times more efficient than a small internal combustion engine (or, normally, a combination of the two),

B) being a small, light vehicle means that it uses many, many fewer joules per mile,

C) keeping energy production in powerplants means that fewer pollutants are emitted in high-density urban areas, where they cause greater health problems.

—-

Really, I think people are stuck on one of two mindsets. Either “it’s basically walking/biking, so why don’t the fatsos just walk/bike,” or “it’s a car, but it’s going to get crushed the moment it gets on the highway.”

Both these views misinterpret the niche that this exists in, which is densely-populated urban cities. In a city, people walk and bike a lot, but they unfortunately also drive an awful lot more, generally because things are further than a couple miles away and/or they need to get there faster than 5 miles an hour and/or they want space to put several grocery bags.

It’s not going on the highway, and I don’t see why people assume that it’s more at risk of being crushed by a hummer than a bike or motorscooter is.

Sorry, but there is no way that this is useful to anyone, anywhere. GM scores a FAIL for asking for bailout money while peddling crap like this.

Think about it–it can’t go on a sidewalk or walkways, and it has NO storage capacity at all.

I live in Queens, and can walk to the subway/public transportation. Once in a blue moon I have a friend with a car take me to either Ikea or Costco for Large Items. Now, as said Large Items would not fit in this, and said PUMA couldn’t go on the major roads to get what I need that I can’t take on public transportation easily, I ask, what’s the point?

Anyone in suburbia will already have a car.

Anyone in a city will have some form of public transportation or a car.

PUMAs will suck in bad weather and will be a deathtrap in traffic. At least a bike can maneuver around trouble spots easily and can go places where this thing can’t.

If GM had a brain they would work on compact electric cars, something like a teenier Beetle, that can go on a major highway and take some cargo and not be a coffin on wheels.

I see this as yet another toy for the rich to tool around their country clubs or lush green campuses with. Otherwise it’s useless.

@Jenonymous: By the same logic, Vespas have no niche in the cities, because anyone who lives in Queens can walk or take the subway, and everyone in suburbia has a car.

Yet Vespas and medium-sized scooters do have quite a niche in cities.

This fills pretty much the same niche, except (a) it’s all-electric, which only a few scooters are, currently, (b) it’s slightly larger, allowing you to seat two people more comfortably (they definitely need some kind of small storage space hanging off the back, though…), and (c) it looks like it’ll be rather more weather proof than even covered bikes (like this one).

It certainly has it’s drawbacks — primary for me would be that piddling 35 mile range, though that’s the kind of thing that improves as batteries improve — but there certainly exists a niche for it in cities.

I respectfully disagree–Vespas can go fast enough to not be a speed bump in traffic, and can navigate said traffic. I see a Vespa and motorcycles as much faster bicycles.

This thing is like a phone booth on wheels. FWIW I think covered bikes are stupid also.

I mean, seriously, it would be more logical for me to have a pack-llama (there are actually houses with huge, green, overgrown yards under the supports for the train tracks in my ‘hood) and just walk the damn thing to the supermarket to help carry my groceries, or lash Ikea knockoff furniture to. It’s 100% green, can even go up and down steps, and won’t slip on icy surfaces.

To take it to an absurd level, why DOESN’T my local CSA have “delivery llama” service? I mean, I’m REALLY loaded down on the weeks that we do tomato pickup on top of our regular shares.

-the outrage that GM is wasting OUR money on crap like this and painting it “green” when they should be focusing on phasing out SUVs and other gas-guzzlers, working with energy companies on more mutli-fuelable cars, and so forth

-the fact that the number of enviornments where this POS is actually useable is near nil.

-What storage capacity? I didn’t see any there.

PS–as a female who owns neither a car nor a bicycle I have no proverbial dick in the game, but thanks for playing.

I respectfully disagree–Vespas can go fast enough to not be a speed bump in traffic, and can navigate said traffic. I see a Vespa and motorcycles as much faster bicycles.

I’m sorry, but the speed limit in an urban area in both Massachussets and New York is 30 mph — I assume other states are similar. This thing goes 35 mph. 50cc Vespas go 40 miles an hour. Both top speeds are avove the speed limit.

And, yet again, bicycles are allowed on roads, even roads without bike lanes. Show me a bicyclist that commutes at 35 mph and I’ll show you a Tour de France winner.

Further, this can “navigate traffic” as well as a vespa, since they have to stay in their lanes like everyone else. And no, Vespas can’t go on sidewalks, as you seem to think this would need to to make it useful.

The rest of your post is rhetorical and does not contain arguments against this car.

Again, all the arguments against this can equally by leveled against motorscooters and similar vehicles, and, for some people, this holds several advantages, including more comfortable space for either two people or 200 lbs of bags next to them (try carrying that on a vespa — it sucks and throws your weight way off); it’s reasonably weatherproof, esp if it gets doors; and it’s electric, which for the reasons I posted above make it much greener than gas, even if the energy is coming directly from a coal-burning plant.

I could see uses for metermaids, and yes college campuses wouldn’t be bad. I live in a college town and parking, traffic , and just getting around can be a problem.
Since we can’r seem to get public transportaion to be as effective as we would like, something like this could cut down on people that live in a town they work in from driving the bigger gas burners. The town I work in isn’t very big but there are many different “greener” vehicles all over the place. This thing isn’t much smaller than those Smart cars and they are showing up alot around here

another option would be people with DUI’s
The size of this vehicle means that it would not require a registration or license to drive, like some mopeds or scooters.
Of course it opens the door for underage drivers as well if it doesn’t require a license.
if it can come in under $10,000…preferably closer to $5,000, then you ahave more of a market than you might think.

i think the problem here is the “GM” part…
anyone that has seen the “love the smell of their own farts” episode of south park will understand that the target audience for this vehicle are too full of themselves to ever consider something practical if it is directly linked to a large corp. there must be at least one degree of separation so that they can think they are better than everyone else (i.e. Saturn or Scion)

Here is a good reason GM is taking our hard earned money now. What kind of thought process would allow a company that is in financial trouble now to align themselves with a company that cannot sell their product now. The Segways are ten times too expensive and cater only to people who have several grand to piss away on a toy. That does not include the majority of the people in the USA. I’ll bet this junk pile will be in the neighborhood of 10 grand if compared to their other items. This technology for building these two wheeled cars is obtainable off the shelf and a very nice unit can be built for less than one grand. I think it would be a real good deal if the people who would use these kind of vehicles could afford to buy one but that is not the case. They suffer from the same problems all electric vehicles suffer from, a good battery system. I would like to see someone use regenerative braking, downhill and coasting charging and a solar panel built in to the vehicles roof. If every manner of recovery was used one could squeeze a few more miles out of the unit and maybe recharge itself by setting in the sun while you work. Anyway, this unit will be way to expensive for the middle class people who could benefit from a low cost low maintenance vehicle.

Looking at some of the plans on the Internet there are some very bright individuals who have put together several of these units that surpass the Segway in performance, and all of the parts can be purchased online. Many bright people will be able to modify these and use off the shelf materials to make their units even better. I will give Segway some kudos, theirs looks pretty nice. You would think a company like GM would work on mass production and get the units out for less than a grand. It could be done. With the composites used today the units could be very likely be molded in one shot. While I think stuff like that is cute for people who have money to burn , but it was not something that was ever targeted at the masses. I wish someone would take a shot at building something for the middle class like those units for under a grand. I know it can be done because I can build on for me for less than that price. If someone like me can do it for that price someone who builds in mass and knows what they are doing could get some great deals on quantities. There are so many possibilities and I live in a area where I could use a vehicle like this to get back and forth to town for fun and shopping. Other than going to the big city this would serve me fine 90 percent of the time and I could charge it from the solar, wind or water power off of the property. But there is no way I would ever pay over 2K for something like that, and that is a big stretch.