Noted about the pick being in 2014, which makes the deal a bit more appealing. Hayward will be making $3.4M next season, then has a QO of $4.7M - I'm not sure I'd be in favor of paying Hayward possibly $5M+ per season. If the Raps are just looking for a salary dump for Gay, then it's not a bad deal, especially since Hayward could likely be flipped pretty easily right away or next offseason.

The bolded part is one of the reasons I keep going back to DeRozan as the team's primary trade asset. Yes Gay is older and yes Gay is overpaid, but I have a hard time seeing him return equal relative value to what DeRozan would return. Trading DeRozan would be about addding an asset for now and the future, whereas trading Gay would likely be more about dumping salary and adding a cheap risk/reward prospect (exactly what Memphis did).

I'm super curious to find out what direction Ujiri is planning to take this franchise! It will certainly help focus some of the discussion around RR, once we know whether we're looking at rebuild, retool or some sort of hybrid of the two.

seriously. I can't stop going over and over scenarios in my head.

What gives me promise of an easy mind soon is he said it would be easy to tell what direction they were going in soon enough. Almost makes you wonder if there is something lined up.

Thu Jun 6th, 2013, 11:46 AM

thead

Quote:

Matt52 wrote:

seriously. I can't stop going over and over scenarios in my head.

What gives me promise of an easy mind soon is he said it would be easy to tell what direction they were going in soon enough. Almost makes you wonder if there is something lined up.

I'm with you, I think I could rattle off from memory right now every worthwhile expiring contract, ideal sign and trade options, who is likely to blow it up, etc... I think I have an obsession...

Thu Jun 6th, 2013, 12:14 PM

Nilanka

Quote:

Matt52 wrote:

seriously. I can't stop going over and over scenarios in my head.

What gives me promise of an easy mind soon is he said it would be easy to tell what direction they were going in soon enough. Almost makes you wonder if there is something lined up.

Yeah, it kinda sounded like a big revelation is just around the corner.

Sun Jun 9th, 2013, 09:39 AM

mcHAPPY

Via HOopsHype.com:

Quote:

The Charlotte Bobcats are looking to make a splash this summer and are open to trading their first-round pick in a package for an All-Star-caliber player. There are rumors the Heat will be looking to deal Chris Bosh, and the Bobcats, who are under the salary cap and could accept Bosh's near-maximum deal, could be a prime candidate. Boston Globe

I wonder if they'd want Gay?

Charlotte will have the cap space to do Gay straight up for #4.

Another option might be Gay for Gordon, #4, and the Pistons 1st.

Bargnani/Gay for Gordon/#4 also works.

Bargnani/Gay for Gordon/Thomas/#4/Pistons 2014

If the Raps are blowing it up, I'd also look at something such as a huge 4 team deal with Raps, Cats, Mavs, Warriors:

Raps: Thomas, Jefferson, Biedrins, #4, Pistons 2014, #13

Cats: Gay, Bargnani

Mavs: cap space

Warriors: Gordon, Marion, Gray

*Basically Warriors have pick of Gordon or Bargnani; Cats have pick of Bargnani/Jefferson/Biedrins
**Only way I touch Thomas is if #4 and the Pistons 2014 pick is coming back. EDIT: And I would immediately buy him out. If TL/MLSE/Bell/Rogers are talking about how they are willing to spend, this is a good way to put their money where their mouth is.

Sun Jun 9th, 2013, 09:52 AM

planetmars

Quote:

Matt52 wrote:

Via HOopsHype.com:

Bosh to Charlotte is interesting. If the Bobcats are interested in someone like Bosh, then you know Miami would be looking for a big to replace him.

Would the Heat be interested in Bargnani/Gray/filler for Bosh? Charlotte could send us Gordon and #4.

Heat wouldn't want a pick as they are contending now. Bargnani is not a good rebounder, but he would help stretch the floor for Lebron/Wade (pretty much what Bosh is doing now for them).

Gray would be another big they could add to their rotation.

Sun Jun 9th, 2013, 11:56 AM

drunkmunky

Every time the Raptors have attempted to deal w/ the Bobcats under BC, they've pulled out. I hope Ujiri has better luck with that organization.

Sun Jun 9th, 2013, 12:19 PM

phez

the fact that most of the lottery teams are very willing to all-out part with their picks should be evidence enough of the opinion of the players coming into this draft. imo raps should still aim low, i dont think development staff could handle a third high-string rookie getting significant minutes in the rotation.

Sun Jun 9th, 2013, 02:25 PM

TRex

Gay for #4? LOL. If the Raptors do that then they better blow up the team and tank for Wiggins.

Wed Jun 19th, 2013, 06:08 AM

mcHAPPY

Quote:

• Trading the top pick is another option the Cavs have explored, and they will likely continue to do so. They’ve also recently taken part in trade discussions involving “a viable” small forward, according to an FSO source.

Bosh to Charlotte is interesting. If the Bobcats are interested in someone like Bosh, then you know Miami would be looking for a big to replace him.

Would the Heat be interested in Bargnani/Gray/filler for Bosh? Charlotte could send us Gordon and #4.

Heat wouldn't want a pick as they are contending now. Bargnani is not a good rebounder, but he would help stretch the floor for Lebron/Wade (pretty much what Bosh is doing now for them).

Gray would be another big they could add to their rotation.

So the Raptors get the #4 overall pick and a big expiring contract, the Bobcats get a perennial all star at power forward and the Heat get.... Aaron Gray and Bargnani?? Somehow I don't see this happening.

Wed Jun 19th, 2013, 08:12 AM

Axel

Quote:

Matt52 wrote:

I found this interesting. Not sure who would be considered 'viable.' My list of possible suspects:

Good point, it would give Chicago a lot of options with the pick and if I were them, (I'd be awesome) I would look to trade down like you said. I think it doesn't really matter where you pick in the top 6 in this draft, you'll be about equal value.

McLemore, Oladipo, Porter Jr, Bennett are all good options at the wing in that range. I would also wonder if Chicago would move Boozer as well (in a separate trade) and then draft Alex Len with a pick.

Wed Jun 19th, 2013, 09:51 AM

JimiCliff

Quote:

Matt52 wrote:

I found this interesting. Not sure who would be considered 'viable.' My list of possible suspects:

I can't see the Bulls trading Deng to get younger. They're going to be trying to win it all next year, and trying to go through Miami. Deng is just another solid option to throw at Lebron. And if it's about dumping salary, I think Boozer's the guy to go.

Denver's another team I could see getting into this: a lot of assets, and a lot duplication on their roster. Some kind of iteration of Iggy/Gallo/Chandler + Koufos/Fournier/Brewer/#27 could work.

Wed Jun 19th, 2013, 10:26 AM

magoon

To briefly address a few points that keep coming up again and again:

1. I don't think anybody disagrees that Rudy is a good player. Of course he's a good player. But he's very much an OVERPAID good player, which means that his value primarily exists for win-now teams, and not even all win-now teams (after all, Memphis rightly decided that he was superfluous to their preferred game). Those of us who advocate trading him away (and I include myself in that category) do so on the proposition that Toronto, as currently built, is simply not a team that can win now, and can't be made into a win-now team by incremental improvements that would come by trading away the Bargnani/Kleiza detritus or by maybe trading one good player.

2. Yes, DeRozan probably returns more in a trade than Gay does, but that's because DeRozan has much, much more upside than Gay does - he's only a little less good than Gay at about half the price and he has more room to improve, plus he's known for a tremendous work ethic. If he had the right teachers in a San Antonio sort of environment he'd probably be a star already; as it is, he's done what he can to improve mostly on his own. But in spite of all of this I am reluctant to trade DeMar because he has demonstrated he is very loyal to Toronto, and it's important to build a culture of players who want to play here (this is another reason trading away Ed Davis was a lousy idea).

3. In trading Gay, there are two basic strategies:

a. trade him to someone who wants a star-quality small forward to Win Now or remain in contention
b. trade him to someone looking to offload poison

In either scenario you're looking to get some picks because you're trading the best player. This is what Memphis did and it's what we should do.

Option A is trading Gay to Cleveland (for Tristan Thompson, Alonzo Gee and Tyler Zeller) or Minnesota (for Andrei Kirelenko and Luke Ridnour) or Boston (for Paul Pierce, whom we would then buy out immediately) or maybe even Houston (for whichever pieces become redundant when they sign CP3 or Dwight, like Lin and Asik - we take on more salary, making this the rare case where we are trading away Rudy's enormous contract in order to save *the other team* money).

Option B is trading Gay to Charlotte (for some combination including either or both of Ben Gordon and Tyrus Thomas), Phoenix (Michael Beasley and Channing Frye), or New Orleans (Eric Gordon).

Somewhere in between the two is Golden State, who wants Gay and who can only offer unloading of bad contracts like Biedrins, Rush and Jefferson. A Golden State deal for Gay is probably not workable on its own unless we get at least one really great player along with their trash and the Warriors aren't going to give away any of their young, excellent core - which means we would need a third team to facilitate so that we get many, many more picks in return. (For example: Golden State gets Rudy, Cleveland gets Draymond Green and Terrence Ross, we get Beidrins, Jefferson and all of the picks both teams have in 2014. Just an example of how it would work - not likely to actually happen.)

Wed Jun 19th, 2013, 11:24 AM

Axel

Quote:

JimiCliff wrote:

I can't see the Bulls trading Deng to get younger. They're going to be trying to win it all next year, and trying to go through Miami. Deng is just another solid option to throw at Lebron. And if it's about dumping salary, I think Boozer's the guy to go.

Denver's another team I could see getting into this: a lot of assets, and a lot duplication on their roster. Some kind of iteration of Iggy/Gallo/Chandler + Koufos/Fournier/Brewer/#27 could work.

With D-Rose, the Bulls aren't just in a "win it all next year" mode. They will consider any option that gives them the best chance to win a title, whether it is next year or 3 years down the road. They also dont want to be in the luxuary tax (the Bulls reluctance on this is well documented) and with the emmergence of Jimmy Butler, they could deal Deng and not lose much on the court. Deng is often hurt while Butler is younger (and cheaper) while providing a lot of the same qualities.

Wed Jun 19th, 2013, 11:27 AM

Shantz

Quote:

Matt52 wrote:

I found this interesting. Not sure who would be considered 'viable.' My list of possible suspects:

If they are talking to teams about acquiring a viable SF, Rudy seems like the most likely in my mind. I can't see the Bobcats giving up on MKG this quickly just to move up in the draft where there is no established top-pick.

Would Cleveland actually be interested in Granger? I can't see Green either. And is Chicago willing to delay their championship aspirations by dealing a Thibodeau favourite? I would guess not at this point.

If you really look at it, outside of the elite Small Forwards (LeBron, Durant), there really is a limited amount of 'viable SFs' who could be considered in this type of deal.

The list, I think, would only contain the following:
1) Rudy Gay
2) Nic Batum - I'm not positive that Batum would be available...but I could see a basic framework of a larger deal.
3) Deng - Possible, but not likely
4) Granger - I don't think Cleveland could talk themselves into it with Granger's injury

The list, I think, would only contain the following:
1) Rudy Gay
2) Nic Batum - I'm not positive that Batum would be available...but I could see a basic framework of a larger deal.
3) Deng - Possible, but not likely
4) Granger - I don't think Cleveland could talk themselves into it with Granger's injury

Agreed on the No's.

Batum can't be traded until July 18th but why would Portland trade him with him locked up and not even 25?

Granger... not only his knees but his age (30) combined with his knees.

Tough to take anythign seriously this time of year, though.

Wed Jun 19th, 2013, 11:43 AM

CalgaryRapsFan

Quote:

Shantz wrote:

If they are talking to teams about acquiring a viable SF, Rudy seems like the most likely in my mind. I can't see the Bobcats giving up on MKG this quickly just to move up in the draft where there is no established top-pick.

Would Cleveland actually be interested in Granger? I can't see Green either. And is Chicago willing to delay their championship aspirations by dealing a Thibodeau favourite? I would guess not at this point.

If you really look at it, outside of the elite Small Forwards (LeBron, Durant), there really is a limited amount of 'viable SFs' who could be considered in this type of deal.

The list, I think, would only contain the following:
1) Rudy Gay
2) Nic Batum - I'm not positive that Batum would be available...but I could see a basic framework of a larger deal.
3) Deng - Possible, but not likely
4) Granger - I don't think Cleveland could talk themselves into it with Granger's injury

I actually think Ilyasova could be a sleeper option. He's still relatively young, but is also a somewhat proven veteran, so he could easily be a 'viable' option for Cleveland. From Milwaukee's perspective, with Ellis opting-out, I could see them looking at a blow-it-up rebuild as a decent option. There were rumors last year that they were looking to unload Ilyasova and his big new contract, when he got off to a slow start, so dumping him for the #1 pick might be a viewed as a good tradeoff for the long-term (high pick and getting out of his contract).

Wed Jun 19th, 2013, 11:51 AM

ceez

Quote:

Matt52 wrote:

I found this interesting. Not sure who would be considered 'viable.' My list of possible suspects: