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Saturday, April 16, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 133 - Persuasion and Progress

Hello all. I hope you had a great week. Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum. Our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships.

There have been some interesting conversations going on here, on the Guestbook, and in my case some direct communications with a few people. An emerging theme in some of these exchanges has been how to persuade a hesitant disciplinarian. As many of you know, I began my DD journey after discovering the Disciplinary Wives Club. It has been an inspiration to many. But, there are a few things it gets wrong, or at least creates a risk of leaving people with some pretty unrealistic expectations regarding how the "typical" DD relationship is likely to progress and how they often get off the launchpad. For example:

-- Most of the DD relationships in DWC stories seem to be initiated by the women, often by simply imposing them on the man.

-- DWC women all seem to go from vanilla to enthusiastic, resolute paddle wielding Dommes instantaneously after reading the DWC, or hearing about spanking through a friend, or responding to a husband's request to give spanking a try.

-- Men cry the first time they go over her knee for a spanking with the hairbrush.

Now, the reality is a little more complicated and, in many ways, conflicts with the gist of the DWC message, inspiring as that message may be to many of us. Based on our polls and reader stories, it seems pretty clear that most DD relationships are initiated by the men, by a wide margin. Most men don't cry right out out of the gate, and many never do. The hairbrush is, for most people, a generally ineffective instrument and OTK is often an awkward position that does not allow for generating sufficient momentum or force.

But, all these are little details that DWC couples discover for themselves over time, or maybe sometimes those things actually do happen and do work for some couples. However, the idea that women just step naturally into the disciplinarian role when asked seems to to present a more serious problem. Because it may leave the men who want these relationships with some seriously flawed expectations of how things are likely to progress even after they get lucky enough to get their partner to agree to try the domestic discipline lifestyle. Their wives may be genuinely interested in giving it a try, but it's just not realistic to expect someone to change decades of socialization and habit over night. I recently pointed out to one of our group the disparate expectations going on here when we expect our wives to instantly flip a switch and become a commanding and domineering presence, while many of us seek out DD to help us deal with bad habits that we don't seem to be able to change even with the exercise of all our will power. For example, one of my goals going into this year was to get rid of sugar. Yet, it is a rare day that I can pass up that plate of cookies or brownies that someone brought into work. If I can't make such a simple change, how can I expect my wife to just suddenly and without effort remake her entire view of herself to become a full-on Head of Household, even if she really does want it?

Yet, progress does happen. It takes time and focus and effort and communication and patience. All of those and more. And, that is today's topic -- how do you help your would-be disciplinarian progress from a willing but historically vanilla partner into a more stern, more commanding, presence? For those on the swinging end of the paddle, were there things you did to make the switch to thinking of yourself as a disciplinarian, Head of Household, Female Leader, etc.? In other words, in the "real world," as opposed to some DWC-fueled fantasy, how do we go from aspiration to something like a real DD or FLR lifestyle? What are some of your hard-learned tips and tricks? Let's help newbies and wannabes take their relationships to the next level, while avoiding disappointments resulting from unrealistic expectations.

Please be as specific as possible with what you have found effective in making the transition to a real disciplinarian or HoH.

47 comments:

Thank you for your post on fantasy vs. reality when it comes to Domestic Discipline. It's like the difference between porn movie sex and actual sex, and it sets men up with unrealistic expectations and disappointment when it really happens.

Adding Domestic Discipline to my BDSM relationship with Shilo has been a mixed bag. I started out feeling confused by it all, and, nearly 3 years later, I'm still not sure I have it right. With all the complications that have come and gone, there's been many starts and stops for us. Fortunately for us, we have you and your readers to commiserate with, and I have learned from every contributor.

On a similar note (fantasy vs. reality) I've been on a 6 month hiatus from actually going out and participating in my local BDSM community, but in this past week I've started searching for someone who enjoys bottoming/submitting, and I'm attending my first party in over 6 months tonight. I get messages from men who have only seen porn or pro-Dommes and they don't understand why I turn them away. I'm not a paid actress, I'm a woman, and I can't pretend to be enthusiastic over someone's interests. We (women) sometimes need time to adjust to being a disciplinary wife/girlfriend, but when we find our groove, we won't disappoint.

I'd like to suggest to men desiring this that they take it slowly and gradually introduce their interests in a relationship. Not all women are cut out for this, and some may even find your desires to be disgusting.

There is someone out there, and it will take time to develop. What you've seen in movies and read in stories isn't necessarily how it works, and FFS don't go behind your wife's back to do it, because then you've destroyed her trust. Be honest even if hurts. For women who are interested, I give the same advice about honesty. I really think men like it when we tell them exactly what we're thinking. Talk, talk, talk, and talk some more. Set up realistic goals, and when they work, keep them, and if they don't, try a different approach. When you're discouraged, rest, then try again.

Thanks,Merry. I obviously need to work on my internet slang. I had until now never heard of FFS. Gave me a chuckle. Slow and gradual is usually my advice as well, as hard as it may be for someone who has stumbled onto this lifestyle and really wants to get it going. For what it's worth, I agree with you about honesty -- it is surprisingly sexy. It also seems to be one of the things that hold women back from taking on the FLR role -- they are more concerned about how someone may react to their assertion of authority than they are about saying what they want.

Unfortunately, that's probably about right, other than a preference for "simple things." For me, I like people who are direct and say what they want and mean. But, also consider your audience. You are posting to a group formed primarily of men who like strong women.

Hi Dan,Reading your blog for a long time I have come to think I might have just been lucky to find two women open to DD. The girlfriend who I first tried DD with was vanilla but open to sexual experimentation. Opening up to her about my feelings and especially that I felt sometimes i still needed spanked for some behavior evoked a strong positive response which resulted in me getting an incredibly hard ( and long ) first spanking with a paddle she had custom made. My wife was in a DD before she met me in which she was disciplined.She also knew I had been spanked in my previous relationship. When she met me she had decided she belonged on the other side of the paddle and so F/M DD was part of our relationship from the beginning. Also, as Merry says, communication i.e. honestly is critical and the shock going from fantasy to real spanking and learning to obey a real women in real life is always a work in progress.I do believe that something one could call " maternal discipline" is standard equipment with many women and once she understands her guy both needs and wants discipline,then she becomes more comfortable with it and enjoys exercising the power and authority. But that takes time because the culture pushes against it. That may be why it seems many women achieve some maturity ( I am talking about age) say, late 30's into the 40's or older) before she is comfortable and confident enough to take on the disciplinary role. Btw, will do a separate post on this if possible but I disagree strongly that the hairbrush is an " ineffective instrument" I can tell you that in the hands of a determined woman, it is incredible effectiveAlan

Thanks, Alan. That thing about the difference between a real spanking and how we imagine it will be is one thing the DWC does get right. In the stories where men ask for it, there is often an emphasis on how different the reality is from what he thought he was letting himself in more. Funny thing is, it's still kind of that way 10 years later. When that first swat hit, it always occurs to me how much more it hurts than I remembered.

The point about "maternal discipline" is a good one. A few commenters have posted about their mothers treating all the family members, dad included, as subject to spankings, and I can see how some women who are very comfortable with the HoH status would see disciplining a husband as just part of that role.

I will take your word that in your wife's hands the hairbrush is effective, though I might need to see pictures to be convinced. :-)

Alan, I also wonder whether "luck" is the explanation for you finding two women open to DD. In terms of initial interest, men do seem to vastly outnumber women. In the poll I have left up for awhile now, we have about 700 men who identify as practicing or wannabe disciplined men, and only 50 disciplinary women or interested in being disciplinarians. But, how much of that may reflect different interest levels not in DD but in finding and viewing DD-oriented websites? Impossible to say. It also seems like while many women may not be the instigators, many seem persuadable, even if they showed no independent inclination.

Dan,On the hairbrush, the bath-brush surely belongs in the H.B. family and I have heard you " comment" on that one. But just to be clear I am using the term a little loosely. My first disciplinarian used a "clothes-brush" and that qualifies I think. My wife often uses a strap these days but her go to brush is a 12 inch sauna brush and there is nothing friendly about it. I admit most of the actual hairbrushes on the market today are not serious spanking instruments but even they have symbolic power to anyone who grew up subject to the hairbrushAlan

I do think of bath brushes and clothes brushes as distinct from hair brushes and entirely different in terms of impact. The bath brush is in an entirely different league and definitely a very fearsome instrument.

Brushes do unquestionably have symbolic power for those into this lifestyle. I have even bought a few antique brushes, and I can't view them without wondering whether they have been across other bottoms, perhaps decades ago.

Dan - I think you've made an interesting point above in regard to men being more likely to visit this type of web site in general, and it not necessarily being reflective of the number of women willing to at least give F/M DD a try. Men, in general, just seem be more prone to search the web for the sites that reflect "slightly out of the mainstream interests" - or, at least, so I have observed. But from what I have read over the years on these type forums, many women will actually be willing to give it at a try if asked - although some will just completely refuse and may even be derisive - so asking can be a gamble. I do suspect, in the 15+ years that I have followed these forums, that the number of women willing is increasing - as our society becomes more open in many ways - and the masculine male stereotype becomes more flexible.

Dan,I agree with Al's thinking. There are lots of signs that more women are comfortable using corporal punishment in their relationships if it makes them stronger. But I doubt most women unilaterally investigate female led DD before the male in their life instigates it.But after taking that initial step many including probably some of our women commenters make themselves very knowledgeable about what works and what doesn't. My experience talking, but once a woman makes a commitment to DD,she will be looking for solid information but until then not so much.Alan

Agreed on all counts. It definitely is a risk proposing a DD relationship. To the point that I don't recommend doing it unless you have been in a long-term relationship with someone or the spanking part of the relationship was already established.

Even for those who take to it, the variety of ways in which it manifests are interesting. My own took to the spanking part very readily, quickly becoming adept at delivering very hard punishment spankings. Until recently, I assumed that the more FLR-ish facets of these relationships--the ongoing control, leadership, taking daily command--were harder to develop. But, I think it all depends on how each woman is wired. I've learned that some take to the dominance piece more readily than to the punishment piece. Therefore, I think you kind of have to figure out what your wife is open to and help develop that part, extending from there.

As to the brush conversation, I am in agreement with what has been said already. It does seem that most of the brushes being sold today are light weight plastic. And while they may sting a bit if applied vigorously, they are definitely not suited for a true disciplinary or punishment spanking. There are still a few heavier wooden ones about that a disciplinary wife can put to good use. Susan has a couple of decent wooden brushes that she utilizes quite effectively. They are good to have handy in more public places - she keeps a brush in each of our cars and one at the office. But at home she most often uses the the Vermont bath brush - which is not out of place in the bedroom. No doubt that a bathbrush takes it to the next level - I have received many serious paddlings with the bathbrush. We also own some "real paddles" that are also very effective but we keep them locked up - the kids still drop in unannounced - so it's just easier for her to grab the Vermont brush and get to work. Also, as was pointed out earlier - the "brush" does have a powerful psychological connotations of feminine discipline. Most of my spankings are otk - although most often on the couch or bed as the chair just is a bit cumbersome. We find it more intimate and personal - and again the position carries a psychological attachment as well - and she can still my blister my behind and easily reduce me to tears from that position even with the more limited range of swing - she says it's all in the wrist. However, for the more serious punishment spanking, I often do get bent over for the big paddle and strap - which certainly does result in a more severe punishment paddling. -al

Dan I think you have to show her what's in it for her. If spanking is something she is doing for her husband, without seeing that she will be able to see the benefits directly, she will lose interest.John

I too totally agree with John. I benefit by being over her knee but I know she enjoys it as well and is very good at it. It's amazing that we can not be getting along and after the spanking is complete all is forgiven and good again

Without going into details, I discovered Peter’s need to be disciplined in marital therapy. ( See User Stories Titled Anna’s story 9-7-14) for details. I was shocked but wanted to make our marriage work for the good of our two boys. I read what I could find and yes even watched some videos. Finally I spoke to a professional Domme who only spanked. Learned what I could. Also read alot. However most important was to talk to Peter and understand what it meant to him.

We started out slowly, but believe it or not, once I got over the fear that I was harming him,What I have learned is that I have to listen carefully to what and why he needs this. It took me a long time till I learned to do it right. We can almost laugh at it now, but it took on his part ,PATIENCE, and then more PATIENCE!Slowly it has changed our lives. What I think we learned most is if he wants me to punish him, he needs to learn to do what I need from him. I know that there is a sexual element to allof this and we still are exploring all of it. I do know I am happier and so is her. We are closer because once he could reveal this to me I found it easy to relate my secrets.

I firmly believe that if you want a tigress it is not a good idea to go after a lamb instead. The lamb will never be a tigress, even if you painstakingly paint very convincing stripes on it. Better to just go after a tigress in the first place.

That said, it is possible to find a very placid, bred in captivity tigress and encourage her to reclaim her wilder, fiercer nature, because it is there already, only repressed and hidden.

I have personally had a lot of success in having women who have never done dominant disciplinarian roles ultimately turn into very confident disciplinarians............but it is my opinion this inclination was already there and all I did was provide an outlet of expression.

I agree that in an ideal world, men who want DD would marry a woman already inclined to it. The difficulty seems to be, of course, that people realize they have this bent while already in stable relationships. I agree you are never going to convert someone who just does not want to lead into a dominant leader, though as you say, I think many women have not only the capacity within them, but a desire for it once it is let out and allowed to be expressed. But, it is a serious point that some women are just never going o be open to it.

Good points all, Dan. I do agree that many women have it within them to become a disciplinary wife - once requested by the husband and providing they are able to overcome the cultural conditioning that may give them pause. And this may relate to age and maturity. I do suspect that one reason so many couples have entered the lifestyle in their forties or even fifties, is that the point is reached where the husband may be sure enough of himself to ask, and that the woman is mature enough and experienced enough to be more willing to give it a try - less concerned with the indoctrination received in younger years. As society changes, we may see more younger couples come in as their is less conditioning to overcome. I suspect in our case - and Susan agreed with me when we discussed it at one point - that Susan would not have been ready much before we actually started - probably not even five years prior.

Hi Al. You are probably right. While I don't claim to be able to explain it, the last poll I ran on ages showed our group tilts very, very strongly to the 50 and above demographic, with the next highest being 40-50. I don't know whether my wife would have been ready for it any earlier. Probably not. I also doubt I would have, though I was always a little less hung up on social conventions, so I think a strong woman might have been able to impose it on me, but I doubt I would have had the trust or confidence to initiate it myself.

I wonder if it's also possible that it just takes several years for us to screw up enough that our wives finally take up the paddle out of sheer frustration!

All, I just wanted to try to gently steer this conversation in the direction of the post, which sought real tips and advice on how to help a willing but hesitant or unsure partner become a real disciplinarian or HoH. A lot of the conversation so far has been about natural inclination, and the value of patience. All true, but not really what I was hoping to elicit, which was concrete action items that couples interested in this relationship can use to help the disciplinarian partner get more comfortable in that role.

Hello Dan,We found our way to DD through a crisis in our marriage, the next step would have been marriage counseling if we had not tried discipline. I am aggressive and take charge and that personality trait can't be taught.But thinking back to when we were struggling, a mentor of some sort would have helped a lot. Maybe a mother or girlfriend that had experienced the journey and could give advice and encouragement.Just as good would have been a DD couple in our crowd that shared with us. That didn't happen but it should. We know two couples probably in an FLR and one of them drops spanking references occasionally. Yet even now we haven't broached DD with either of them. So it seems there is a conspiracy of silence among practitioners. Its all understandable given our culture but it means every women beginning discipline has to learn all or most of it by herself.Blogs like yours and the internet more generally probably help but that personal connection can't be there.Marisa

Marisa, I love it when you comment, because it is a rare occasion when your comment fails to suggest a new topic. This one does, and I'll do a topic on this soon: can aggression and taking charge be taught?

You are definitely not the first Disciplinary Wife who has raised the issue of mentoring. It's a problem I've wondered whether this blog could have a hand in solving, but I have yet to figure out a good way to do that. There are a few women contributors to the blog who have reached out to me by email, and if people trust me as a middleman I would be happy to try to coordinate putting interested women in contact. I have even considered using the "Private Section" (see tab at top of the page for that), but the problem is, again, sending people an invitation to a private section requires an email, and I have to remain in charge of it to invite people (or kick out those who don't play by the rules), which means I have access to the conversations. So, there is not an ideal solution that I have been able to come up with, but I'm happy to listen to any suggestions any of the wives may have.

If there is willingness, but reluctance, the first step is to determine what the reluctance is based on. Is it conditioning? Fear of hurting a loved one? Ruining a good thing? Being perceived negatively?

As for concrete steps for a willing beginner couple, I think a good start is to begin with something small, significant, but not loaded with emotional baggage. Let the man ask his partner what habit, quirk, or shirked responsibility most annoys her...........and then say, "OK, Dear, now just tell me that you are very serious about me doing/not doing whatever and if i screw up you can punish me for it." The emphasis should also be on letting her truly punish as she sees fit. Let her feel the authority and power, and then see the results as the man tries harder and harder to overcome the problem behavior.

Positive results, both in changed behavior and expressed appreciation for her discipline is a powerful combination to encourage confidence and increasing authority.

Dan,This mentoring may go on to some degree."Aunt Kay" apparently did some when her site was active, talking to wives via phone and administering some spankings to naughty boys with their wife's permission and knowledge.I have also read some internet accounts of wives mentoring other women and even demonstrating discipline techniques. It may be more common in Europe than the states. I was in correspondence with one fellow years ago from Europe who stated his wife had spanked him several times in front of a wife or a couple interested in DD. No way to know how much of this is real but I suspect some of it is. I did believe him. Spanking or getting spanked in front of a witness might be the tipping point for some. I know that since my wife has spanked me in front of her sister and gotten positive feedback, she is more interested in sharing with others.Alan Alan

Yes, Aunt Kay did do some real live mentoring back in the day when the DWC was an actual "club" of sorts. There was a private Yahoo group for members only (two actually - Yahoo shut the first one down after a while. Sometime later, another effort was made but Yahoo once again shut it down after a year or so). But to join, you had to email Aunt Kay and give her your phone number so she could call and speak to both of you so she could make sure you were a real live DWC couple. We actually did that during our first year in the lifestyle and were on the Yahoo Group. My wife probably had a half dozen phone conversations with Aunt Kay during those early days - which she found very helpful We were invited to meet she and Jerry sometime for dinner and "counseling" but it never worked out. -al

Back to the original weekly topic - as the above post requested. Our story has been posted in detail in the User Stories section of Dan's blog (User Stories - Vol 1 - towards the bottom). Our story began (to my great surprise - I never would have believed she would actually spank me - even though I had fantasized about it for many years) one evening when over a bottle of wine, we began discussing sexual fantasies (a leap for us at the time - but things had gone stagnant in our 20 year marriage). Spanking came up and Susan, perhaps slightly drunk at the time, went for a ping pong paddle. And what happened was that she realized she enjoyed the touch of power she felt - even though it was a play spanking (but with a few zingers at the end). The next morning, she suggested a spanking when I left the toilet seat up (which I always did then - but no more). Of course, I agreed but this one was a bit harder - not DWC hard but it stung a bit. Susan told me me later that she found herself immensely enjoying herself as she paddled my bare behind.

At this point, I realized that I had a real opening for discussing the Disciplinary Wife lifestyle with her. So, after our couple of play spankings, I suggested she read through the DWC site and a couple of other F/M sites of the day. And she did - and followed the advice - and that afternoon I discovered that reality was not the same as fantasy.

I was fortunate in that my wife developed an interest immediately after the play spankings - but it was the reading of the DWC material that firmed up the interest even further - along with some good tips on how to give a real spanking. So my advice to the aspiring husband would be twofold. Try to create a situation where spanking discussion or a play spanking scenario might arise (I did not do that intentionally but it worked out that way) - maybe a bet - loser gets a spanking (make sure you lose!). Or when she starts complaining about something minor (not too serious) - bend over and jokingly suggest a couple of swats. etc... Secondly - if things start to head that way, direct her to the DWC site (even though only an archive now) - or Dans's Tips sections on this blog. --al

Thanks, Al. Very helpful advice. And, I apologize if it seemed I was chastising folks for taking things "off topic." My concern was rather that the on-topic comments were not really including the kind of specific advice that some seem to want or need in figuring out how to nudge their partner into taking the reins.

Hi all. I've been reading and following along here for some time now but have always stayed on the sidelines feeling I didn't have anything worth contributing publicly...because I'm one of those on the very front end of the journey exploring and trying to introduce DD into our long term marraige of 25 years. First and foremost I want to say THANK YOU to Dan! I'm actually one of the people Dan referenced in this topic that he has been kind enough to communicate and share invaluable input w directly.

In the spirit of the topic; current practitioners sharing advice w us newbies as to how to advance our cause, I didn’t know if it might help to hear from one of us eagerly looking for advice and guidance. Dan, the DWC site and others sources of information online, have helped me with the first and arguably hardest step…. mustering up the courage to broach the topic! What a gift the data from the DWC survey was. It allowed me to pursue the conversation w my wife from a position that "we're not freaks or deviants for considering this"!!!! Actually we're stereotypical of those considering adding this to our relationship and ultimately practicing it!!!! I've always been accustomed to being the one in charge in my professional, personal and to date in my home and family life. These feelings and the whole concept took a few years for ME to come to terms with having!!!! So I can't imagine how confusing this all must have been for my wife to hear.

I thought I might be able to contribute to the dialog by sharing the most valuable tips I as a newbie exploring this have gotten….but then adding some additional “real life” insights from what I’ve experienced. - Communicate…. communicate. HOWEVER, I’d add the obvious, which wasn’t so obvious. Make sure you’re being completely open and honest when you do! I thought I was being direct and forthright at first, then came to realize that I had been embarrassed to really say what I wanted or needed to when we were FACE TO FACE. - Listen! But as in all situations in life, recognize the difference between hearing and LISTENING! While I was saying I wanted to be disciplined/punished, my wife had repeatedly told me she was comfortable w trying this if we kept it “fun and light”. Recently I finally listened and we’ve been having fun w playful spankings….hopefully it’s a first step and who knows where that will take us. - Common/typical roadblocks are both common and typical. She is (still) uncomfortable w the notion of hurting me. GO FIGURE! This wonderful woman who has always loved and supported me…is more inclined to care for me! - She’s also questioned the obvious….isn’t this going to promote me acting badly just to get spanked??!!! For all us husbands who haven’t actually experienced being DISCIPLINED yet, as in spanked in a way that we DON’T want it to happen again any time soon…. We probably DO “act out” trying to promote getting a few whacks. Being new to this, she doesn’t realize that when a wife’s comfortable and practiced at giving a true discipline spanking to an errant husband…..it’s not a “fun” or erotic experience for him. He’ll behave (at least for a while) in a way to AVOID another one any time soon.

So what would be most helpful to hear are tips to get us over the hump and taking this to the next level. When she is annoyed w me or on the rare occasion I do something genuinely bad, serious or potentially harmful (like I did a few months ago)….that she start to administer the punishment I deserve. Also…you hear to find what’s in it for her. That’s harder than it sounds. We typically get along great so there aren’t any large obvious changes she is looking for.

Thanks, Darren. Great observations, and thanks for weighing in. On the issue of of what's in it for them, I'm sure it varies a lot, but I think my wife will say that DD gave her the ability to make her feelings known in a very concrete way. Instead of dealing with fights or disagreements by pouting or flouncing, she could take things in hand, literally. Also, just as I needed to be brought down a few pegs, she needed and on some level wanted to be more assertive, DD can give a woman a means of developing more assertiveness, exploring that side of her personality.

I also think the scenario Al describes above in which the wife tries it and finds she gets off on it a bit is probably more common than some will admit. Whether it is the act of spanking or the act of exercising control, many women who try it do find they enjoy the feelings it gives them.

Opinions on maintenance spankings - where the husband receives a periodic spanking as general discipline (usually lighter than a punishment spanking - but should still be a real spanking that will leave a red, sore behind) - vary, but one argument in their favor is that they help curtail the need to act out in order to received a spanking desired by the husband - since another spanking is coming soon (most maintenance spankings seem to be weekly in nature). Just a thought. -al

We don't do maintenance, but the other thing that can probably be said in their favor in the context of this topic is helping make discipline and spanking a habit. Something that happens on a very regular basis, such that some of the discretion and pressure are removed.

I concur. This is a very open topic that is difficult to cover, because each of our experiences/personalities are very different; yet linked together. I tried to answer your question, but kept writing and writing and going off on tangents; such that the whole thing turned into a mess.

Maybe break it into sections, e.g. deciding if it is what you need; preparing for the conversation, the conversation, etc... .

Darren, the fact you are already engaged in playful spanking is a good start. I would suggest the next step is a private discussion with your wife on things you do or don't do that you know have room for improvement and may be counter productive to a better relationship going forward. That you don't want to do these things, but you have concluded you need discipline to overcome them to feel better about yourself and to achieve the best possible marriage you and your wife can have together. Mention one or two instances that you did that were hurtful to your wife (I'm assuming you have some). Provide your wife a list of things you would like to improve and be held accountable for. Tell her she is the only person you would ever ask to spank you when you fail to live up to these objectives. Tell the truth about your "needs" and how it will make you a better husband. I would discuss the Spencer spanking plan with her from the standpoint of only you will be the one spanked. It was designed to minimize relationship problems and build strong marriages. (I'm assuming your wife has been reluctant to discipline you with a hard punishment spanking and the Disciplinary Wife club info even scared me the first time I read it - although I realized to break bad habits I would probably need the hard spankings recommended). The Spencer Plan takes a much gentler approach to spanking, to wit, making it hard enough to hurt and teach a lesson, but not cause bruising. It is a fairly positive sell by itself. Be honest and tell your wife this is what I want and need and I really would appreciate your giving it a trial as it will also have many benefits for you, to wit, a more considerate and loving husband.

There are a couple of different versions of the DWC out there. The real one was taken down for a while, and someone else snagged the domain. The real one is at: www.auntkaysdwc.com. Look under the Fiction Stories and Real People tabs on the side for all the stories.

I concur that OTK is very awkward. I would add, however, my wife's wooden hairbrush (the big paddlebrush from Target)is very effective. Now, it took a few years, but once she "found her swing" and stopped giving warm-ups, I promise you that her brush began delivering a powerful sting and really makes her a persuasive communicator, especially since our routine is for me to be bent over the footboard of our sleigh bed with my head down on the mattress. In addition, a wife's wooden hairbrush is symbolic of strong, maternal discipline in a way that no other implement can quite match. Insofar as a lifechanging transition into f/m spanking, the following have been helpful: 1. Unfailing and immediate compliance from me whenever my wife tells me I'm getting a spanking. 2. My wife seeing over the years that spanking is truly a need for me. 3. My wife seeing that spanking is now a need for her, too, in that she loves how attentive and domesticated spanking makes me, and, finally, 4. Things began to change when I suggested that I would give up receiving oral sex from her (an act she was really starting to hate) and be grateful to receive regular spanking discipline instead. Through this forfeit, she saw just how serious I was and also what a great deal it is for her, too. Of course, please be careful what you wish for, because my wife has REALLY stuck to he guns concerning our agreement, and it's been in place for five years. Still, the benefits are greater to me than what I gave up, and to have a confident spanking wife is an amazing turn-on, except, of course, when she's actually practicing her craft on my poor bottom.

It was not until my second marriage that what I had been looking for was found. Met my current wife a year after my divorce, she had been divorce over a year. We dated for a year, slowly both of us opening up what went wrong with the first marriage and what we were looking for the next time. It was of all things laying in bed one morning, I said were have nothing to hide behind, we just had great sex and that is when she stated that her first husband acted like a little boy at times and she just wanted to give him a spanking, but did not. I opened up about what a wife who would take charge, I told her I was looking for a woman who would spank, and not just playful and she looked at me and smiled. About a month later I was late for our date and she pointed to the bedroom, she told me I had earned a spanking and for the first time I stood there while she bared my bottom and the spanking was just that, I was squirming and kicking, pleading and dancing around the room rubbing when she let me up. Wall facing time, and then she asked if that what I was wanting, still crying I said yes. We married three months later, the wedding night started with me across her lap, the rest of the evening was great, sitting at breakfast people notice I was squirming, she smiled and said best be a good little boy. It took a second marriage, I've never been happier and she feels the same, just something that both of us need, and trust me her spankings have improved and have a lasting impression.

Hi. Wow, lots of action here! And I've been late from travel and such. Long thread, so I'll try to just focus on concrete tips- kd's point about asking your Wife what things Ahe would like changed is very good - on breaking the ice,for guys I'd say work on admitting to yourself that being humbled or embarrassed plays a role in this...so asking your Wife is hard, but part of the all this (may not apply to everyone, but I think many of us) - Darren's comment about starting playfully I think is a great starting point. - after your soanking, try to immediately do something (a chore, whatever) that demonstrate concretely to your Wife you are thankful and appreciative. Just trying to bring together a couple ideas that could help folks starting out.bob

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