doglover:Peter von Nostrand: Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs

Regardless of who set the fires, what good did the siege at Waco accomplish?

Well, you couldn't very well let them keep raping kids and stockpiling illegal weapons with impunity. Religious freedom only goes so far when you start doing insane and dangerous stuff like that. I mean, yes, it ended badly. No disagreement. But this was a crazy cult that was never going to let things end well.

Shadowknight:doglover: Peter von Nostrand: Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs

Regardless of who set the fires, what good did the siege at Waco accomplish?

Well, you couldn't very well let them keep raping kids and stockpiling illegal weapons with impunity. Religious freedom only goes so far when you start doing insane and dangerous stuff like that. I mean, yes, it ended badly. No disagreement. But this was a crazy cult that was never going to let things end well.

This. They were raping kids, abusing kids and stockpiling weapons to basically start an overthrow of the government. It was handled badly, but they needed to stop what was going on there.

Shadowknight:doglover: Peter von Nostrand: Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs

Regardless of who set the fires, what good did the siege at Waco accomplish?

Well, you couldn't very well let them keep raping kids and stockpiling illegal weapons with impunity. Religious freedom only goes so far when you start doing insane and dangerous stuff like that. I mean, yes, it ended badly. No disagreement. But this was a crazy cult that was never going to let things end well.

This. I still have to debate this with Alaskans every time I bring up the ATF.

I was in high school (our teacher made us watch them burn up, live as it happened, looking back he may have been in a teabagger before there was a word for them) I read the People Magazine article on it and watched the Movie of the Week but damn if I know what it accomplished.

The man had a contest with another religious nut job about which one of them could raise a man from the dead. They eventually got rid of the corpse cause it was stinking the place up.

All they had to do was not initiate gun fire, or not fire back or walk out with their hands in the air. They actively sought to murder people. And when those people you murder are police and other law enforcement agents, their surviving colleagues tend not to forget your tactics.

machoprogrammer:This. They were raping kids, abusing kids and stockpiling weapons to basically start an overthrow of the government. It was handled badly, but they needed to stop what was going on there.

So the answer was for the government to burn those kids and the other cult victims alive. Got it.

//wife was teaching in that area at the time, had to drive through FBI checkpoints everyday, coming and going.

machoprogrammer:Shadowknight: doglover: Peter von Nostrand: Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs

Regardless of who set the fires, what good did the siege at Waco accomplish?

Well, you couldn't very well let them keep raping kids and stockpiling illegal weapons with impunity. Religious freedom only goes so far when you start doing insane and dangerous stuff like that. I mean, yes, it ended badly. No disagreement. But this was a crazy cult that was never going to let things end well.

This. They were raping kids, abusing kids and stockpiling weapons to basically start an overthrow of the government. It was handled badly, but they needed to stop what was going on there.

The whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing no longer applies in this glorious America we now inhabit.

Chunks McGunks:Peter von Nostrand: 2wolves: doglover: DoctorCal: Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?

That new messiah would have to be pretty damn gross, because if I recall correctly, the ATF and FBI roasted a fair number of those kids Dorner Kebab style.

No. You're forgetting that Mr Koresh used arson in an earlier incident to erase his mistakes. Stop spreading disinformation.

Never let the truth stand in the way of blaming the evil government jack-booted thugs

There are people that don't think the government was at fault for setting the Branch Davidians complex on fire? Jesus were you not alive when this happened or something?

Not disagreeing with this at all (personally I believe the government agents probably accidentally started the fire), but wasn't it part of the official report that the ATF planted microphones in the walls of the complex and they managed to pick up bits and pieces of conversations from the church members referring to burning the place down to the ground? I could be mistaken, but I thought I read that as part of the "proof" that the Branch members started the fires, which was presented on tape in the investigation that followed this debacle. My googlefu is weak at work right now, so correct if wrong.

That new messiah would have to be pretty damn gross, because if I recall correctly, the ATF and FBI roasted a fair number of those kids Dorner Kebab style.

The FBI nor ATF did that. It was all Koresh's fault. He ordered his slaves to set those fires. He'd rather take down himself and everyone around him in flames than face the music for his kiddy-diddling.

TV's Vinnie:doglover: DoctorCal: Have they found a new messiah to rape their kids?

That new messiah would have to be pretty damn gross, because if I recall correctly, the ATF and FBI roasted a fair number of those kids Dorner Kebab style.

The FBI nor ATF did that. It was all Koresh's fault. He ordered his slaves to set those fires. He'd rather take down himself and everyone around him in flames than face the music for his kiddy-diddling.

doglover:Regardless of who set the fires, what good did the siege at Waco accomplish?

It was the early days of the 24 hour news networks, and after the first Gulf War (Desert Storm) they didn't have much. The Waco and the Clinton fiascoes (and the OJ chase and subsequent trial), sadly, justified their existence and convinced the public that continuous news outlets tailored to your personal, political kink were necessary.

In terms of journalism, the span of time from mid to the late 90's was the death of it. We went from objective sources of honest information to sensationalized stories beholden, not to the truth, but what was in the best interests of whatever sponsors backed those time slots. It became about viewers and ratings, and abandoned informing the public and started passing off whatever crap they could to fill those slots.

Then, in 1999, shortly after discovering the growth of hair in his "special place," a young, acne-pocked, borderline-alcoholic, entrepreneur living in his mother's basement in Lexington, Kentucky first noticed the cynicism of the national news networks, and Fark.com was born and Drew Curtis became a whorehousehold name and a bourbon distillery regular.

So, if you ask what was accomplished by the siege at Waco, look around, young man. Look at the myriad of sweet, silly flowers in this garden of madness, and remember than none of this would have been possible had it not been for, among other things, that very siege.