RANGE RULES: No You Can’t Retrieve Your Silencer

Indoor ranges provide users with a semi-controlled environment for trigger time without having to deal with environmental variables. On the other hand, customers are required to follow the company’s protocol and safety rules and shoot alongside a variety of unknown strangers.

Unfortunately, the range rules can be arbitrary and focused on liability rather than the protection of your gear. One Reddit user found this out the hard way when his silencer became unmounted enough to fly down range and into the backstop.

However, as the story goes, the range safety officer (RSO) refused to call the the line cold so that the customer could retrieve his silencer. In fact, the shooter was told to come back at the end of the night, and when he did, he was given the remains of his can.

Range Rules Prevents Suppressor Retrieval:

I usually shoot at my house, because I live in the middle of nowhere. However, since it was pouring rain, I went to my local indoor range.

The first shot I took with my 10.5″ AR-15 ended up shooting my SilencerCo Omega all the way to the back of the range. I immediately went out, contacted the range officials asking them if they could do a cease-fire and go get it for me. They said, “We’re really busy right now, and it’s inconvenient for everyone.”. They told me they would get it at the end of the night, and I could come back the next day to get it.

I initially questioned the legality of this, since it’s an NFA item and I wasn’t transferring it to them. I’m kinda curious if they were actually allowed to do this. They are an SOT, able to sell suppressors. I’m not sure if they are able to hold them temporarily if not for repair or whatnot.

They called me this morning, and told me to come pick up “what remained” of my suppressor. They stated it was in multiple parts, even though when I left, it was fine. They didn’t even stop renting out the lane where my suppressor was in, and in the 6 or so hours after I left, 2 shots had hit my suppressor. Somehow the cover that was on the suppressor is also missing. They apparently can’t find it.

I have an email out to SilencerCo to see if it’s repairable. I’m not sure what they’re going to say. However, I may be contacting this shooting range, since their unwillingness to call a cease fire because of the “inconvenience” may have cost me a significant amount of time and money. It’s not their fault that my suppressor shot off, but why would they not call a cease fire? Isn’t that fairly negligent? They know people will be shooting down range. And they didn’t help by allowing people to keep using that same lane.

Has anyone had a suppressor get shot like this and get repaired? There’s no puncture, just significant dents. Most of the repairs I’ve been able to find searches of are based on baffles.

Additionally, anyone have any advice for dealing with the range?

tldr; My suppressor shot off for some reason, and range wouldn’t let me or them get it. It got shot twice, and is now in multiple pieces.

[UPDATE: Response from SilencerCo]

I will not know if this will be repairable till we get it back and have it inspected. I will be happy to keep you informed during this process.

[UPDATE 2: Spoke with an attorney specializing in firearms]

So as I suspected, the gun range taking possession of the suppressor violates the NFA. The only way they could take it, would be for repair (which this ironically was pretty much the complete opposite of). I did not violate any laws, just them being in the possession of the item. Ideally, they’d also have to log it in their books as /u/556RShackleford stated. I highly doubt they did, which could potentially get them in more trouble. The attorney recommended that if SilencerCo couldn’t fix it, to do small claims court, as I and everyone else here has expected. From how he saw it (and many of you) this range owes me a new suppressor due to their negligence.

As a reminder, any FFL/SOT manufacturer can repair a damaged silencer. However, the serialized portion of the NFA item (usually the tube on a silencer) is not replaceable without creating a taxable event. Meaning another $200 tax paid and a waiting for the approval of a ATF Form 3 (transfer between dealers) and ATF Form 4 (transfer to a non-licensee).

Personally, I hope this story is manufactured; a business refusing to shut down a range for a customers ~$1K investment is depressing at best and negligent/liable at worst.

LE – Science – OSINT.
On a mission to make all of my guns as quiet as possible.
Pete.M@staff.thefirearmblog.com
Twitter: @gunboxready
Instagram: @tfb_pete
https://www.instagram.com/tfb_pete/

Advertisement

RSG

I’d like to know the name of the range. IMO, the shooter has an actionable case. The owner of the range should get an opportunity to remedy this. I don’t suffer fools and by noon today, that establishment would’ve already received a letter from my attorney explaining why we would be contacting the ATF by the close of business.

mandreko

The name of the range is in the Reddit post. They did agree to pay for the replacement cost of the suppressor (stamp, transfer fee, etc)

Rob

Honestly they should allow you to shoot at the range for free while the can is in jail considering that you can only shoot it there; assuming that it is their policy to allow visitation with pending items. Even if it is not I would expect them to make an exception. If you are a member they should refund the membership fee during the time period. That would be the bare minimum that I would expect. If not take the money for the stamp and have silencerco transfer the can elsewhere. Either way, I would be done with the place once I had the can in my possession short of evidence of a major overhaul of their RSO policies and, potentially, staff. You should not have to argue your case with the owner. This problem was completely manufactured by them. The fact that it happened is a signal that they have little interest in changing. I have worked as an RSO at an indoor range. This would have been 2 minutes of work and is completely inexcusable. I could not imagine one of my employees turning the man away and citing laziness as the reason.

mandreko

I’m not looking for anything punitive. I just want to be made whole again.

When I’ve asked previously, they did not allow you to shoot suppressors that didn’t yet have their approval, because they’ve had issues with it. I don’t quite understand, but it’s apparently their policy.

Ebby123

Thank you for using (or not using) the justice system responsibly. Too many people think that because they CAN get money from someone, that it is automatically morally right to do so.

Kudos!

Qoquaq En Transic

Good man for not looking to make a buck but instead only wanting to be made whole again.

Too bad you have to live through the inconvenience.

BillinDetroit

The inconvenience is a fair exchange for the value of the lesson. However the incident occurred, it could have resulted in injury or worse. Having to deal with the inconvenience and wait will leave him more alert in the future.

Howard

I would appreciate it if you would post the business name and location here as I don’t do Reddit and cannot pull it up.
It is businesses and irresponsible RSO’s like you experienced that give some outfits a bad name.
Others can learn from your bad experience as can the business owner and even the Dork for a RSO.

Holdfast_II

Just FYI, an attorney cannot use threats of criminal prosecution to gain leverage in a civil matter.

Duray

If he dropped his transferable machine gun forward of the firing line, would they leave it there till end of day? Under the NFA, i don’t see how this is any different.

Marc

It would’ve taken literally no more than 60 seconds to walk down there and retrieve his suppressor.

Edeco

Eh, getting a bunch of people to unload and lock-open, having the RSO check… I’d expect 10 mins down time. Prolly should have called the cease fire but 86’d the guy for causing problems.

This conflict sounds like what the Spikes Tactical logo looks like.

Giolli Joker

Good old ranges had/have a periodical target change stop during the day… unless the range has 100 lines, it is not that much of an ordeal.

KestrelBike

Exactly, and I doubt anyone on that line would have complained a bit about the need to retrieve that silencer. Dickbag move on the part of the RSO who refused.

Edeco

I wouldn’t have complained, I’d hold the range blameless, but I’d think ill of the guy for launching his thing and interrupting me.

L Cavendish

like you never, ever make a mistake…anywhere in life…
nothing bad ever happens to YOU
crap happens…it’s how you deal with it that counts…it could be YOU next time

valorius

No more than 60 seconds tops.

BillC

It happens about every 20 minutes at a standard outdoor range, super champ. 10 minutes downtime? try 3-5 minutes, tops. That includes the time it takes people to walk 100 yards both ways to put up a fresh target.

Edeco

Apples and oranges, indoor ranges have newbs and no regular cease-fire ritual.

BillinDetroit

Hmmm … I guess I’ve been fortunate — all the indoor ranges I’ve used have had an electric target setting and retrieval system.

plumber576

“Let us gingerly touch our tips!”
-Role Models, and the Spikes logo

Major Tom

What’s next? You can’t get ye flask?

Brick

Your options are North, South, and Dennis.

Amplified Heat

This is the one where you yell “cease fire” and get the can yourself before allowing yourself to be escorted off the premises. Not like you’ll be back or anything.

Ebby123

Lol. While tempting, many people who go to ranges have no concept of what “Cease fire” or “Cold range” protocols mean.

Sadly, I’ve witnessed this firsthand many, many times.

Edeco

A lot of people at the range I use disregard the open-chamber-when-not-in-use rule. I wouldn’t just call cease fire and step over the line myself, would want the RSO on board for that maneuver.

Pete Sheppard

‘Inconvenience’ The vast majority of the shooters I’m familiar with would not mind pausing for a few moments. I hope the range management reconsiders their attitude and informs staff accordingly.

t_reese

Sounds to me like he didn’t check to see his suppressor was securely attached to his weapon prior to firing. No one to blame but himself!

Giolli Joker

He blames himself for that.
Is the narrow minded approach of the range officers that is baffling.

bcelliott

“baffling,” nice one.

mandreko

Yup, it is quite easy to do with the ASR mounts on the Omega. Several people I talked to during this process had similar stories, including the attorney I contacted. Sending it downrange was most definitely my fault. However, not allowing me to retrieve it, and having it get shot by 2-3 rounds over the next 7 hours was poor judgement from the range.

MTV550

And based upon your profile picture, you have never done anything you regret…

t_reese

You’re absolutely correct. At 68 years of age there isn’t a single thing in my life I regret!

J Jac

If I was so large that I cost the tax payer money to exist I probably would reconsider not having regrets.

J Jac

We don’t blame the victim.

Next you’ll tell us that women in skimpy clothing are “asking for it”

valorius

I’ve called range clear at local indoor ranges myself many times for something as simple as 1 live round falling off the table so i could retrieve it. The RSO at the range in this article has to be the biggest douche bag of all time.

John

This doesn’t surprise me. Having worked at a range, and been a customer at countless more, it seems that out of touch policies are the rule not the exception. I’m maintaining an ever-expanding list of ranges I won’t patronize – just added another one last week.

BillC

This, This angers me. A lot. That range is sounds like a bag of idiots.

Charlie Victor Alpha

RSO sounds like a complete d-bag. As a last resort I would’ve considered renting a NFA item and then immediately throwing it as far down range as possible. At the very least I bet the range would’ve automatically gone cold out of curiosity.

mandreko

Many people suggested (after the fact) that I should have just safely unloaded a firearm and threw it downrange.

Charlie Victor Alpha

Well, I would’ve made sure it was the ranges firearm. I highly doubt the range would’ve stayed hot if their valuables were in danger of destruction. Still can’t get over what an A-hole the RSO is.

mandreko

This was my suppressor. I wish I could tell you this story is manufactured. The range in question did eventually agree to pay for my replacement costs (check the reddit post for more updates). The real standout is SilencerCo, replacing it for free. I just have to wait 9-12 months for a new one to arrive 🙁

Anon

Nice, I bet the NFA violation helped sweeten your case for them too.

Charlie Victor Alpha

Awesome result despite the loss of time.

A.WChuck

Thank you for the follow-up. Good to see the range (finally) stepping up. Awesome customer service from SilencerCo!

bbies1973

I also hope that the range learned a lesson, here, as well as others taking note.
30 seconds of inconvenience to make the range safe and jog down to the backstop and return is a small price to pay vs. the cost of replacing something as expensive as a suppressor.

Joshua Graham

Dude, I wouldn’t have left without my silencer. I would’ve threatened them with calling the ATF, my lawyer, and everyone else under the sun right then and there until they shut it down to let me get it.

Ebby123

As unfortunate as this incident is, I would have to agree. Mandreko (in the imaginary land where the ATF sees all and prosecutes all) technically opened himself up to a felony for granting unrestricted access of an NFA item to unknown parties.

This is a pretty juicy lawsuit against the range if they didn’t make it completely right.

Me

You could say it was technically temporarily stolen from him. The range essentially held him at multiple gun points by refusing to call a cease fire.

Tom Currie

Actually no it was not “temporarily stolen” and in fact HE was in violation of the NFA when he CHOSE to leave it there. He could have stayed at the range until the end of the day. And if he was concerned about anyone else shooting in that lane, he could have continued to rent the lane for the rest of the time the range was open.

While I agree that not calling a ceasefire and closing the range for two minutes was a stupid thing for the range to do, LEGALLY it is the responsibility of the registered owner to keep the suppressor under his control. He simply decided that he had better things to do than stand around waiting until it could be retrieved, so at least some of the blame lies with him (not to mention that there is rather obviously some blame for firing a suppressed AR without bothering to see that the suppressor is properly screwed on first!)

Yes the range screwed up — but he screwed up both before and after. A lot of this is simply a snowflake looking for someone else to blame for his own mistake(s).

int19h

How exactly do you “keep control” of an item when it’s in an area blasted by a dozen people with guns?

Tom Currie

You STAY THERE — not wander off hoping that someone will call you later to come get it.

The range management acted badly by not doing an immediate cease fire, but it was the owner who violated the NFA by leaving.

As several others have pointed out, that was his CHOICE – and that choice happens to have been illegal.

So let’s be clear: This all happened because the owner made a stupid mistake of not bothering to check that his suppressor was properly installed before firing, then the RSO was uncooperative and unsupportive, then the owner decided he had better things to do than to wait to retrieve his suppressor so he just left it there.

None of us know the conversations between the owner, the RSO, and whoever was in charge at the range, so we don’t know exactly what was said, but we do know what was done. And what was done was a violation of the NFA by the registered owner of the suppressor.

undeRGRound

MADAM Curie, I believe the radiation has permeated your skull…

LMAO

Jim_Pook

Let’s not forget that the shooter was on private property. What would happen if the range officer told him to leave the property, and he refused to do so? Would that open him up to a charge of trespassing?
Also, how do we know that it was human error that caused the suppressor to come off the gun? Could the threads have been damaged and not able to hold properly?
Many questions…

Tom Currie

First of all, they never did tell him to leave, so that makes no more sense than “what if a meteor struck the building” (about equally likely).
If the snowflake became disruptive then they might ask him to leave, but then their only choice would be to call the police – when the police arrive he would point out that Federal Law requires him to not leave the suppressor unless they sign for it by serial number — beat cops aren’t interested in legal battles, but they are interested in resolving stupid crap with the least effort on their own part, 99% beat cops I’ve ever met wouldn’t care about the NFA but would simply ask the RSO “Is that this guy’s [whatever]?” and when the answer was yes, the cop would tell them both that they have to give it to him and then he has to leave. Case resolved, no report. The other 1% might know about NFA, and the result would have been the same.

And yes, we do know that it was human error that LET the suppressor come off the gun when he fired. Regardless of how/why it was loose, if he had checked it before firing he would have found it loose or improperly mounted.

yo dude

Where I live almost every Law Enforcement Officer understands the NFA. I shoot with many of them. Give them some credit.

yo dude

Tom never makes mistakes, how long have you worked at that range?

Rufnuk

I strongly suggest he put a leash on his rambling suppressor to keep it close; just like a puppy.

Completely and utterly incorrect. Preventing someone from obtaining something or making them wait all day for no good reason is stealing.

Nothing you said makes any sense.

David J. Stuehr

Civil conversion in the eyes of the law. Once an item is retained, the holder has an obligation to exercise reasonable care to maintain said item. Closing the lane, closing the range etc. returning it all shot up is not acceptable. they should have immediately called a cease fire and returned the item. A lot of liability on the range in this situation. Keeping it open knowing that a large metal object was down range is also a big issue for other users.
If I was the range’s counsel I would go off over this! Insurance carrier would too.

retrocon

Stolen isn’t the issue with NFA… it is simple possession. For example, technically, if your tax stamp is in your name (vs. a joint trust with your wife), it would be illegal for your wife to have the combination to the safe in which you keep it. In that case, she would be in sole possession of the NFA item when you are not home. Some people argue that by having the combo, whether you are home or not, you are both in violation. Did a lot of research before doing a trust, and this was one of the biggest reasons to have one.

By preventing him from retrieving the can, they essentially kept sole possession. You could even argue that everyone at the range, including other customers, had potential possession.

The RO is in charge and could have easily gone cold and retrieved it.

Hopefully, the poster remembers to tighten down his can next time.

CJ Klekar

I have to respectfully disagree. I don’t know the proper legal term but the reasonable test comes to mind. Is it reasonable to call a cease fire and inconvenience several people for about 2 minutes, vs. inconveniencing one person for an entire day, expecting that person to ‘hang’ around until closing time? Adding to that the possibility of a NFA infraction because of constructive possession.

Izzy

Where is the personal responsibility? If I was at that range, I would have not minded a brief cold range scenario to let him get the suppressor, but WHY do few care that the shooter allowed the suppressor to fly off the end of his gun in the first place?

“You failed to secure your gear.” Where is the check of personal responsibility? Is it commonplace for suppressors to just fly off like that? I doubt it, which means the shooter was negligent.

yo dude

The range did not act rationally. He made every attempt to legally retrieve his suppressor. He informed the range of the implications, they continued to act irrationally.

Steven Calvaresi

He was not allowed to retain possession (against his will, he WANTED to go get it) of his NFA regulated item. He did not purposefully place it downrange, and was actively prevented from doing so by the range personnel. It was stolen

Definition of theft

1 a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it b : an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property

Pretty sure they had no legal right to retain possession of an NFA item against the owner’s will (unlawful taking), and the man wanted it back and they said no (depriving the rightful owner), not to mention the felonious nature of the possession of the item in question.

Why the hell must he rent the lane the ENTIRE day to prevent the damage/destruction of his property that THEY are refusing removal of?

Definition of extortion
1 : the act or practice of extorting especially money or other property; especially : the offense committed by an official engaging in such practice
2 : something extorted; especially : a gross overcharge

Then there’s the suppressor coming off. I have personally seen an Omega (same kind he has) get popped off the mount by a baffle strike, after it was PROPERLY secured and inspected. It can happen.

I would not have left, but I definitely would have called the police to report theft and unlawful possession of an NFA item, while standing in front of whoever the most senior employee present was. If they really wanna play chicken with .gov…..I can help.

Launched suppressors “can” be an innocent mistake.

The man attempted to retrieve his regulated item and was denied, not for any cited safety concern (which could be reasonable), but merely inconvenience on the part of the range.

That range is garbage if they act like that, and I would have forwarded this behavior to the ATF in the sincere hope of getting them shut down, lest they worm their way into more dangerous practices for the sake of “convenience”. Anyone saying otherwise is being an apologist, and would likely have made a similar erroneous call had they been the RO.

Ebby123

LOL! Technically true. Conspiracy to commit armed robbery?

blubal42

I’m gonna state the obvious. Said owner of the weapon should have made damn sure the weapon was in firing order before blowing his suppressor into the target. Something more serious could have happened with his failure to do so. Then what? Is he gonna sue the range for his injuries or to someone else? Range operator was probably pissed it happened and wanted to teach the genius a lesson!

BillinDetroit

He, however, appears to have violated Federal law to do so. The RO needs to be more level-headed than that.

He should have retrieved the can and sent he careless / unsafe customer home.

Ebby123

Eh…not really.
Baffle strikes can happen for many different reasons, only some of them are the fault of the user.

And what if they took your phone and “held it for you”, until it was “convenient” for them to give it back? I see no real difference.

Actually, if they held your phone out in the rain, where it was slowly being destroyed… that might be a more apt comparison.

Cory C

Exactly. “Excuse me, valet. I seem to have parked in the wrong parking lot and now it’s roped off and I can’t get my car.” “Sorry, sir. The die has been cast. We’re having a monster truck rally there later today. You an pick up what’s left of your car tomorrow.”

Do they not have laws against Grand Theft: Auto in your state? In Texas all I’d have to do is wait for the sun to go down and it would literally be 100% legal to shoot them if they were trying to illegally deny me access to my own vehicle.

Cory C

I live in Texas too. I’m not sure I understand the point you’re making. Also, no disrespect, man, but I think you have completely misunderstood what M40 was saying, and what I was saying, for that matter.

There’s only a couple ways to take my comment… analogy, or reality. You chose a third way (fantasy) so you could go all mall ninja about how you and your trusty rifle would have won the day.

And then you took someone else’s car analogy, and started fantasizing about shooting people there as well. So yeah… there’s a pretty good chance that analogies just aren’t your thing… or maybe you’re someone who shouldn’t have a rifle, ever.

The scenario that you’ve imagined here is one where an armed citizen, having just filmed evidence of a federal felony, would then politely hand over an expensive electronic device to the felon so that it and the evidence could be destroyed… and you think I’m the one who sounds as if they’ve been drinking? How realistic would you think that scene was if you saw it in a movie instead of in your– to coin a phrase– fantasy?

Well, you’ve skipped a few steps between “felony” and “gunfire” in this weird fantasy scenario you’ve come up with; I’m not going to shoot a felon for verbally asking me to hand over my valuables so they can destroy evidence of a federal crime, no– I’ll just keep filming that, prosecutors love stackable charges– but if they try to physically take that evidence from me, the very least they’re going to get is knocked down.

Why in the world did you plant a flag on I’ll Just Politely Hand Over My Cell Phone To A Criminal So They Can Destroy It Hill anyway?

First, you insinuated that if a valet had your car roped off in a parking lot, that it would be “100% legal to shoot them if they were trying to illegally deny me access to my own vehicle” – Absolutely NOT. You’d go to prison for a very long time for that.

Then you commented on my analogy where someone has your phone and says he’ll give it back later. You started making references to using your rifle there too. Wow…. just… wow.

Seriously dude, you have ZERO right to play judge, jury and executioner… which is absolutely what you’re advocating here. That kind of thing will land you in prison and also provide invaluable ammunition to gun grabbers everywhere.

They’re both really dumb analogies, man, I don’t know what to tell you; it’s not the least bit realistic to assume that an armed person is going to meekly allow a criminal to steal and destroy their vehicle, or to steal and destroy a cell phone with video evidence of a crime on it.

Also… I didn’t write the Texas Penal Code, I just know how to use Google.

I get that Texas law changed to allow shooting under certain circumstances, but in both cases that were presented to you, nobody is fleeing with your property (an essential element under Texas law concerning theft and use of a gun).

You need to rethink this… even if you were able to meet every element of Texas law, you’d still lose about a year of your life, probably your home, and every cent you had. We’re talking hundreds of thousands in legal bills trying to defend your actions. And all of that over a cell phone… or a disagreement with a parking attendant? Seriously… you’d be handing the gun grabbers their wildest fantasies, and probably going to jail. Don’t be an idiot.

Cory C

Agreed.

Also, the analogy I offered was one where someone parked their car where they weren’t supposed to (car owner’s screw up, similar to the whoopsie committed by the guy shooting his suppressor downrange) and then when they went to fix their mistake they were essentially told by the premises owners that they would not let the car owner retrieve his property and that it would endure some abuse while in their possession. That analogy fits the scenario this article is about. My point in drawing that analogy was in rebuttal to the people in this thread who seem to think that they owner of the suppressor somehow got what he deserved because he goofed on shooting his suppressor downrange. One screw up doesn’t entitle the premises owner where the screw up occurred to confiscate your property with immunity.

Texasuberalles, I think you mistook what M40 said, then mistook my agreement with PART of what he was saying as some sort of call out on you, and now you’re bent a little sideways and argumentative.

Thanks for being a voice of reason… as responsible gun owners, we all need to promote full understanding of the law, as well as a common sense application of it. This isn’t the wild west, and guns are not tools to settle civil disputes.

People need to be aware that even if they are 100% within the law and 100% justified in a shooting… their life will probably become a living hell for a while and they’ll likely spend a LOT of money defending their actions. And if they are only 90%… hello prison.

Cory C

You are completely mistaken if you think that Texas law empowers you to shoot someone under the circumstances that I outlined above. I normally agree with the good majority of what you write on this site, but you’re off target here.

Cory C

I think the problem is that he interpreted what you said as, “Oh yeah, well then they’d steal your phone. What would you do then?” when it appears that you were merely saying that this suppressor kerfuffle would BE AS IF some clerk somewhere came into possession of someone’s phone and then failed to treat it like an expensive item while it was in their possession.

Harvey, I hope the range immediately fired the employees involved in this incident. Treating a paying customer in this manner wouldn’t be acceptable in the greasiest burger joint, never mind at a range where you’d expect a higher degree of legal and ethical behavior from the employees.

James

Any idea why it launched off the gun in the first place? Baffle strike?

Scott B

Im with you on this one….after every mag I shoot I check my rifle over to make sure nothing has come loose in the process. I am also curious as to why the suppressor came off.

Pete – TFB Writer

Thank you for stopping by with the update. I spoke with SilencerCo earlier today and confirmed they are taking care of you. They have some of the best customer service in the business. I’ll update the story.

mandreko

Everyone told me that you bought SilencerCo not only for it’s products, but it’s amazing warranty. I’m very glad I did, since I’ve heard horror stories of other manufacturers. They were very cool to me. I have no problems recommending them to anyone in the future.

Pete – TFB Writer

BTW. I love the fact that your sister found the story on TFB/Facebook and sent it to you.

jamezb

That, is indeed very cool. TFB has become the go-to firearms site. Congrats to all.

Anonymoose

Well at least you got a replacement. :

DanGoodShot

I have to give credit where credit is due man. Sounds like you kept a really cool head. I don’t know if I could have kept my cool in that situation. The fact they pulled that was complete BS. Thay absolutely should have let you gone and got it. My local indoor range let me go out and get a charge handle that flew off my Saiga 12 after they called a ceasefire. That was only $30 item.

scaatylobo

IF as you correctly suspected,it was illegal for you to leave it there.
Why did you not call for an LEO to “explain” the situation and make an arrest if required.
Bet that might have solved the issue.
At the very least,I would have HAD to call a federal agency to get approval to leave it behind.
And bet they would have said HELL NO.

Tom Currie

You are 100% right that if he had called BATFE they would have told him “Hell No” – but the Hell No would have been about HIM LEAVING. Nothing in the NFA requires the range to stop because some fool couldn’t be bothered screwing his suppressor onto his barrel, but the law does require the registered owner to keep the suppressor under his control. Legally he was required to stay with it.

Yes actually it does. Whether somebody takes it from him or whether they refuse to let him retrieve it is not on HIM. Its on the person doing the stealing. He cannot have it under his control when he is prevented from retrieving it.

The only illegal thing was done by the range, not by the guy who had his suppressor stolen.

Stephen Paraski

I bet if he was a LEO with a Badge they would have shut down range for 5 minutes.

scaatylobo

Guess your not a fan of the LEO.
BUT no LEO would have taken a chance on that law violation !.
I am a retiree and I would not have allowed that to happen.
Too bad he made a HUGE error in launching his ‘can’ in the first place.
BUT that range owner might very well have committed a felony.

J-

I’d turn them into the ATF just to teach them not to be dicks.

Duro Sig

I would of called a cease fire myself.

Norm Glitz

“have”

ErSwnn

Glad it’s turning out as it is, despite the range not being reasonable. A cease fire for what, 30 seconds, is going to mess up the mojo?

But I am wondering…and NOT to condemn….how did the suppressor become loose?

Jim Corrin

The should ‘a, could ‘a, aught ‘a Monday morning quarterback crowd is running full out to solve this problem for you AFTER the fact. I am not sure how I would have handled this if given your situation. Your misfortune has helped me learn from it. I know now to call the local LEO to explain the situation to the range personnel. Normally I thought anyone could call a “Cease Fire” !!!

blubal42

It would have been better if they did call a cease fire then everyone there could have seen how careless he was for not checking his weapon. This is saying it the nice way!

whamprod

Do you care to share the name/location of the range? I’m not interested in punishing them, but I often do shoot suppressed, and I’d like to know where NOT to take my suppressors if I’m shooting indoors. I’d hate to duplicate your experience.

undeRGRound

I with you 100%, Dawg, but I hope you learned what the problem was and can avoid it in the future!
BTW, what was the reason it became detached and flew downrange?

pepelapiu2004 .

Personally, I would not hold it against the range on a legal basis. Those laws are simply retarded and so anyone using those laws would also qualify as retarded in my book.

But the range offers really poor service. I wouldn’t recommend such a poor service and I wouldn’t visit them again for sure.

Scott Williams

Unfortunately, many places don’t have a lot of choices for indoor ranges, you go to the only range nearby.

BillinDetroit

Just because a law is, in your opinion, “retarded” does not change the fact that it IS the law and most laws come with penalties for disobeying them.

You simply cannot legally possess a suppressor without agreeing to obey a whole LOT of “retarded” laws. If you don’t want to obey the laws and aren’t willing to pay the penalties if you get caught with one, forget owning the can.

Legislation presently working its slow, slow, slow way through congress right now will get rid of a bunch of those “retarded” laws, but until it passes, is signed and goes into effect, the “retarded” laws are still the laws in effect.

bbies1973

I hope there is some way this is a factory replacement with the same serial number, so that you don’t have to pay ATF again?

Wow!

While the range is certainly in the wrong, keep in mind this can potentially be a double edged result. If other ranges think that such a situation is possible and for whatever reason they aren’t able to shut down lanes (or think that for whatever reason it could be damaged in the small frame it takes to shut down the range), they may ban NFA items at their range. NFA shooters are not very common, and a range may be willing to lose an NFA customer base rather than deal with the potential headache.

Not that one incident can change most range’s policies or anything but just something to think about. (good on Silencer Co, they have always been great on that kind of repair/replace stuff)

Rusty Shackleford

I would have called the ATF out of spite. I see more indoor ranges that have Airline/Cable Company level of service.
They could have taken 5 minutes to let you retrieve a heavily controlled item.

LMJ313

My late husband’s SCAR 17 uses a similar 30 cal. Omega. He waited what seemed like forever to get his tax stamp. Happy to see that the range was taking responsibility for its lack of action.

Realist

SilencerCo has top-notch CS! I too had a baffle strike wherein my can went flying down range…though not as far as yours.

I contacted SilencerCo about the above mentioned and they fixed w/o question cost-free.

BillC

There’s an update #6 on the original Reddit. Apparently the owner of the range told will pay for the shipping and tax stamp costs (SilencerCo is sending a new can from their warranty). The range owner was trying to only split the cost of the stamp initially, but a guy who knows the owner of the store/range told him he was being dumber than a bag of wet rocks.
It would have been cheaper and more “convenient” if they had just called a cease-fire. I bet the corrective action the range will take will to be do something stupid like ban suppressors.

mandreko

I’m now just waiting for a check. I was told I could come pick it up, or have it mailed. Since I’m significantly busy the next few weeks, I opted to have it mailed. I’ll update the post when I see the check.

BillC

At least you’re now internet famous.

mandreko

I jokingly wrote that on my Facebook, because my sister (who pointed me to this article this morning) said I was famous.

Xavier C.

Glad you’re getting everything replaced, though naturally the waiting period is always a bummer. I’ve worked as an RSO at an indoor range and this one’s lack of action and frankly, empathy for a lost NFA item astounds me. I’ve called a ceasefire people sending their magazine followers for their Henry rifles downrange. Even the old live ammo drop. Thanks for the update on your progress and good luck.

Walter E. Kurtz

The RSO was an idiot by not shutting down the line. I agree with RSG: hold the range accountable. There is no excuse for this. The horror…..the horror.

Jeff Smith

What’s the legality of making the owner of an NFA item leave said item in their possession?

mandreko

From the attorney I spoke with, it violates at least 1 law, since an FFL/SOT can take it in for repair, and only for repair. Since this was not repair (kinda the opposite), they would be violating the NFA. Additionally, if they didn’t note it in their books with the serial number, there could potentially be a second violation.

Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

I would gladly participate in the ordeals of a ceasefire to let him get his suppressor before someone else shot it. As I think 99% of shooters would. Even if it was replaced for free, 6-12 months sucks.

Fred Derg

This happened to me at an indoor range. They shut down the firing line and retrieved what they could. The range was awesome unfortunately it was an AAC can and they treated me like crap. They would not fix it- my advice to you is never by an AAC can. I told the story to a SiCo rep at an event and he said they cover anything. I haven’t tested that but I know thier cans and cust service is awesome so I only buy from them now. Lesson learned! AAC customer service blows!

mandreko

Yup, that’s one reason I bought from SilencerCo. The only part they can’t replace is the tube, which in my case is the part that needed replaced 🙁

iksnilol

It’ll buff right out 😉

JASON B

Interesting. I go to my local range once a week to train and practice. Just two weeks ago a guy two lanes to my left launched his silencer downrange. He informed the RO and within one minute the line was called cold and the shooter retrieved his can. Exactly how it should have been handled.

I can’t believe how rudely you were treated. It would have been so easy to call the line cold. They deserve whatever inconvenience they have to deal with as a result of their rudeness and inaction. Give them hell.

Zundfolge

How did something laying on the floor get hit at an indoor range? Did the RSO kick the idiots shooting at it out of the range? Every indoor range I’ve ever shot at has RSOs that will yell at you for aiming too high or low on the hanging target, let alone on the floor.

Brick

You beat me to it.

RSOs are supposed to take issue with people shooting at something that’s not an official target, right? Every indoor range I’ve ever been to would take major issue with it.

Nicholas C

The indoor ranges I have been to do not have ROs baby sitting shooters. In this case they should have.

TheNotoriousIUD

The one I go to has cameras on every lane and if somebody does something unsafe they send a guy out to talk to you.

Giolli Joker

I think this RSO was on the lazy side… he did not want to make the effort of calling the lines cold, nor maybe he made the effort of informing shooters using the lane or checking what they were doing other than verifying the guns were pointed forward….

USMC03Vet

$10 says RO shot it on purpose after range was closed to be a further jerk.

In essence, the RSO illegally took possession of an NFA item… Technically committing a Felony.

Raptor Fred

Thought the same thing too.

Sam Damiano

Even if it is the only range in town I’d find someplace else to shoot.

Tyler Norona

I work for an indoor range and I am amazed that the range in question would not call the line cold for 30 seconds and let you retrieve your suppressor. I would guess that the RO was not following company policy.

Christopher Wallace

Better call saul

22winmag

Makes me glad there are no RO’s at my 100 year old 600 acre shooting club.

Miles Finch

Dozy bugger should have checked the thing before firing!!

Steven Calvaresi

A certain well know indoor shooting range in Manassas, VA does this same practice, and I’ve witnessed (as an employee) a customer’s suppressor being left in the berm until close, and the customer coming back for it the next day. I had told management this was not legal (since they are not an SOT), but they’d rather not generate the angry customers by pausing shooting for a few min. You can get lucky sometimes with the male RSOs that work there that are mostly vets, and understand your investment and the legal ramifications. However the standing policy is don’t shut down to get a suppressor.

Luckily that guy’s Omega did not get shot.

gusto

I have never seen a silencer shoot of, why does it happen?

I got a ton of rounds thru mine, worked at a cinema-range where our 3 loaner guns had them on so they saw a gazillion roudns thru them

and they are becoming quite common where I live

never seen it happen

Steven Calvaresi

I’ve seen it a couple of times. Usually it’s a result of the QD mount not being fully seated. Sometimes its a baffle strike that pops it off the threads. The one I mentioned in the previous comment was a SilencerCo Omega. It suffered a baffle strike, which damaged the last 2 baffles. I’ve also seen Omegas just pop off, but I suspect the users weren’t locking their ASR mounts properly.

I have an Omega on my 300blk SBR and it’s direct threaded. haven’t had an issue yet, and it’s been on their for 2 years.

Giolli Joker

What kind of customers get pissed if a fellow shooter is helped to retrieve his valuable property?
You stop one minute, you live the gun cleared on the table and take the time to reload a magazine…

Pretty sure that drawing is copyrighted on Deviantart. Doubt they paid to use it.

BillinDetroit

It’s okay, I saved a copy as evidence.

😉

Toxie

In hindsight, you coul dhave refused to leave and called the police. Explain to them that it was a federal crime for you to leave the can with the shop, and I’d bet the police would have forced the shop to allow you to retrieve it.

AlDeLarge

That was my first thought. There would be a police report, at least.

Kekistani

How does a silencer “go flying down range”? That makes no sense to me. Don’t they thread on? Is there a QD where it’s possible to be aligned with the barrel but not be locked?

gunsandrockets

It seems to me the criminal liability which the manager of the shooting-range created was the bigger issue than the simple loss of property.

I’ve been to at least one indoor-range which insists every user sign a written waiver of all liability prior to using the range. I doubt even such a waiver would stand up to violating criminal law.

Brien Lemois

This is BS, the range should of closed the lanes and got this customer his suppressor. I work at a Gun store/Gun Manufacturer and I know for a fact they care. They would of shut the range down. This company should pay for the repairs and lose the SOT for telling him to leave it there and come back. Would of taken what a whole 10 mins to turn the line cold and walk down there to get his item. WTH is wrong with some companies!

RetroG

I’ve sent a suppressor down range at the local gun store (which is an SOT, also). Called over the RO, he called a cold range, went down and picked up the parts (found them all) and returned them to me. I managed to launch mine by having a metric threaded barrel and tightening the suppressor by the tube, which unscrewed it from the Nielson device. The pressure in the can after the 3rd round in the mag blew it off and downrange.

The range in the OP’s story definitely violated the NFA. Sucks that the tube couldn’t be fixed, attaboy to SilencerCo for customer service.

mandreko

The name was in the Reddit post, if it matters.

Mrninjatoes

We need the name of the range. What a bunch of d-bags.

OmegaSun

To sue is to cut off ones hand, it hurst everyone in the long run too. More of a reason to remove suppressors/silencers from the NFA and BATF.

J Jac

In today’s society it’s the only legal recourse one has.

I’d have sued until either I owned the range, I got 2 new cans back + a new rifle, or the ATF shut them down for NFA violations.

“I, a Range Safety Officer who is a legally authorized representative of a firearms-related business, shall now take illegal possession of an NFA registered item and hold it overnight without consent of the registered owner, and I believe this is a very good idea which will in no way confer any civil or criminal liability upon myself or the company which I represent.”

None

The ATF wont do anything. I know a felon who made a home made suppressor. He was caught with it by the local police. They, in turn, notified the ATF about it. The ATF, said they weren’t going to do anything about it.

BillinDetroit

I’m looking for that to change, now that the DOJ is under new management.

Tony

So the RO was a fudd?

Sledgecrowbar

In my experience, they are more often than not.

Nashvone

I’ve been to three indoor ranges in my area and one thing that is constant with them is that anyone on the firing line can call a cease fire at any time for any reason. On the few occasions that it has happened, no one got bent out of shape over it. Clear your weapon, step back and have a quick chat with your fellow firearm enthusiast. You might make a new friend or two. I’m not sure why this RSO was such a pain about it.

I was at an indoor range when someone shot their suppressor downrange. The RSO called cease fire. Took a whole whopping 3 minutes for an employee to go out there and get it.

Mark Lee

I advise you to install safety wire on your suppressor, just like racing vehicles are equipped for when negligent maintenance practices and collisions cause components to disengage from their original mounted positions. In your case, it would keep the components from loosening and becoming misaligned, which is the likely reason why it was launched downrange.

Also, the range probably didn’t want you to be rooting around in the lead-enriched environment without wearing any protective equipment to keep you from skin and airborne pollutants. There was nothing wrong with the range asking you to wait until the evening to retrieve your AWOL suppressor, and your choice to leave the premises being the basis of your claim that the range “took possession” is pretty lame; you essentially abandoned it in place, leaving the range in a difficult position.

From what you have said here, I think you made out pretty well at the end of the day for someone who failed to maintain your equipment. Please don’t write back in a few months telling us how you lost an eye when your firearm blew up for similar reasons; it really doesn’t reflect very well on your capabilities or sense of responsibility.

Joel WS

You never studied criminal or civil law, did you? Based on the evidence in this account, his case has merit.

Mark Lee

Actually that’s an incorrect assumption and I’d appreciate it if you could specifically address my comment’s details rather than make general statements of opinion without any supporting logic or reasons to merit consideration. Without specific arguments, comments of this nature hardly merit serious consideration and are basically considered trolling.

Joel WS

Mark, that’s a fair reprimand and challenge. If you indeed studied law, may I inquire as to what extent? Have you ever practiced as an attorney? If so, did you ever win a case, other than by default?

To address your imprimis statements, first read all the comments from others and especially where I have replied and or concurred for further insight to the matter at hand.

Secondly, I will address specifics in your post as succinctly as I am able.

1) [… it would keep the components from loosening and becoming misaligned, which is the likely reason why it was launched downrange.] That’s not a bad idea on it’s face, but I’ve never seen or read about this technique. One concern I have is the possibility of backlash.

2) [… the range probably didn’t want you to be rooting around in the lead-enriched environment…] Pure speculation on motive. Going by the original account, the RSO was “too busy” to get it and didn’t want to inconvenience other’s on the line. There is more ‘evidence’ of laziness, lack of due diligence (and business sense) and simple greed in keeping things rolling. Also, if it’s that “lead-enriched” the range might be in violation of health and safety standards. Maybe that needs to be investigated?

3) [There was nothing wrong with the range asking you to wait until the evening to retrieve your AWOL suppressor…] That is only your opinion, whether biased, from ignorance, subjectivity, or whatever else. Several other posters found multiple reasons why this was not only wrong, but stupid, it alienated and inconvenienced a customer, showed callus laziness, and the inaction effectively took action in taking possession of this valuable item and then failed to properly protect the item from damage – not to mention creating the ‘technical’ transfer of the suppressor in violation of federal law.

[…and your choice to leave the premises being the basis of your claim that the range “took possession” is pretty lame; you essentially abandoned it in place, leaving the range in a difficult position.] The point at which the range operator restricted the customer from retrieving the item, they (the business) had possession and became legally responsible for it – and FAILED to take reasonable care of the item. The RSO put the _customer_ in an *unreasonable* situation by holding the item hostage, whether he stayed there or not. One might even argue he ‘borrowed’ it without permission, which means ‘stole’ it, under most jurisdictions.

4) […someone who failed to maintain your equipment…] A fact not in evidence. There could have been an undetectable metallurgical defect for example. Find my reply where I make the statement “If it was an unforeseeable accident, it’s no one’s fault.” I continued on to make the statement, in effect, when the range operator prevented the man from taking five minutes to get it, the business ‘took possession’ became tasked with ‘reasonable care’ , failed to meet the standard and are (I’d bet money on it) liable for subsequent damages. This is Business Law 101.

5) […it really doesn’t reflect very well on your capabilities or sense of responsibility.] Speculation and badgering, also irrelevant as a hypothetical future scenario which just indicates your personal disdain for the guy and nothing else.

Is that sufficient enough for you, Mark? I don’t like trolls either, don’t want to present myself as one, and appreciate the opportunity to address your issues with me. I’d enjoy it if you’d answer my opening interrogatives and address my more detailed responses to your original post. Thanks.

BTW, your avatar looks a lot like Mister Rogers to me. Is that on purpose, or do my eyes deceive me?

Mark Lee

Joel,

It is disappointing that your response has obviated your continued tendency towards a passive-aggressive approach (“that’s a fair reprimand”, followed by questioning my legal experience and suggesting I could only “… win a case, other than by default?”

… and to continue making uniformed assumptions outside of your experience, and defensively attack my character and comments, which are wholly founded on fact, science, and experience. Don’t expect me to engage in further trollish banter other than to address the questionable validity of your queries:

The word “impious” means “in the first place”, so as you used the term in this context, it proves only that you are unable to even use a dictionary.

1) If you are unfamiliar with “safety wire” protocols, I suggest you look it up, although after seeing how you butchered your one chance to demonstrate a minimal knowledge of Latin, I suppose that too would be a stretch for you. I have no idea what your reference to “backlash” is in this context, as it has absolutely nothing to do with torqtued-tight and safety-wired attachments and is only referenced in clearance-fit components requiring a measured degree of play between parts of a mechanism (such as in the valve train of an internal combustion engine).

2) As part of a gun club in Rockland, Maine, I was an RSO (range safety officer) in a retired indoor shooting range – retired from public used due to the excess accumulation of lead downrange due to the heavy use of cast bullets by hand-loaders and black-powder shooters – and a Tyvek suit, gloves and respirator was required for anyone to visit the far end of the range. Whatever excuse was given in the story and to the suppressor’s owner is immaterial to the situation, where a simple “no” is all that is necessary, and no extensive explanation is necessary unless faced with a whining crybaby demanding justification. Your assumptions of “laziness, lack of due diligence (and business sense) and simple greed …” sounds like more accusatory assumptions, which is your consistent style.

3) About those reasons … if you read about my experience as an RSO, you already know what the answer to this one is regarding having justified reasons to keep the shooter away from the downrange area. Your suggestion that the RSO seized possession is simply infantile fantasy.

4) There is no evidence of metallurgical fatigue or failure or manufacturing defect, and the fact that the suppressor functioned faultlessly until well after it had been used is, by the definition of root-cause analysis an obvious indication of a failure to maintain. My experience in root-cause analysis is anchored by over two decades in engineering in automotive and aeronautical work, and one of the programs I (as project manager for the FAA) created a maintenance-monitoring database that cross-referenced aircraft accidents, mechanical and electronic failures, and human behavior factors that contributed to those accidents and losses so that the computerized system would calculate the inherent risks in all of those specific areas, and then flag any combination of activities and components as a potential risk, with recommendations for remedial actions and scrutiny to prevent further accidents.

So, Joel, what are YOUR qualifications, other than guessing and assumptions?

Joel WS

You know, Mark, I reviewed our entire exchange ready to offer an apology for setting an inappropriate, snarky and overly provocative tone. Then I decided your initial post had already set that standard. It’s my bad for following along similar lines with someone with such apparent thin skin. How was I to know if you studied or practiced law? You might have just been a poser, since your responses regarding any legal ‘profession’ remained generalized and unanswered until recently. You are pretty good at creating straw men and inferring incorrect intent or meaning from some, if not all, of my comments, so I tend to believe you now.

For example, you wrote: [The word “impious” means “in the first
place”, so as you used the term in this context, it proves only that you are unable to even use a dictionary.] Really, Mark? The term impious means “To be is to be disrespectful of god or duty.” The word I used was “imprimis” which means: “Existing there at the
beginning.” It was in reference to the argumentative statements made in your initial post and is in fact the proper use for the intended thought. Was your change of term a Freudian slip on your part or just lack of attention to spell check? Your subtle change of the “imprimis” definition then goes on to disqualify your entire attempt to be insulting. What a disappointment.

As for your comments toward my lack of knowledge about “safety wire” protocols, I am familiar with the technique, just unfamiliar with its application to a screw-on suppressor in general and if it were even adaptable to the one in question. In my haste, I failed to clarify that. (Seems we are both somewhat fallible.) In trying to imagine the design and potential dangers in a catastrophic event the idea that pieces of broken wire could fly back toward the shooter came to mind. I think this might loosely be called
‘backlash’. All this is tertiary to the central issue of this blog post.

Statutes vary among jurisdictions and given the facts of the article, the NFA law, and other possibilities, the man very could well have a winnable case against the range owner. You clearly disagree and hold yourself up as a unassailable authority, proffering anecdotal stories about some ‘other’ polluted range setting some kind of standard for the range this man patronized. We are on a social media blog and free to make assumptions on this case. Preponderance of the evidence is the standard in a small claims court. All the arguments, as well as any impressions one might have against the range manager (RSO, et, al.) suggested on my part would be logical to consider in devising a case, despite what you say otherwise. Not once, did I make a
suggestion to, or flatly insult you. I merely asked rhetorical questions. Your heated responses speak for themselves toward lack of composure and integrity. Once again, that’s likely my fault for not treating you with kid gloves.

Good for you on your laudable career. It still doesn’t make you the ultimate, sole authority in dealing with a Small Claims Court action. No disrespect intended, you might be damned good at it, who knows? (Still not the sole authority, though, sorry.)

In the attempt to get us back on point and to sum up what I failed to properly convey to you so far, here’s part of another statement I made to another visitor to this site. Please take note of the qualifiers.

– If there is merit and existing statutes, the plaintiff can not only file a law suit, he very well may prevail and be awarded damages. I’d argue this guy has such a solid case and given the apparent violation of [the federal NFA] law by the range owner(s) the best things to do are to buy the man another suppressor, apologize, and not be “too busy” to do the proper thing in the future. File it under “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”.

– It may not be good for their business future if the account gets around. They sound like idiots to me. If they are “too busy” to handle an incident as simple as this one – and violate criminal statutes in the process – they may just be in it for the money. If you don’t actually give a crap about your clients’ or customers’ satisfaction you may not last very long as a business; or you might be a government agency.

Now, I will say, there could be circumstances in which the plaintiff might lose. For example, if he failed to stop the line on his own it might show he was OK with waiting. This could lower the range’s liability of care if one existed under local, county or state law.

I also noticed the use of some ‘qualifiers’ of your own. You made
guesses and assumptions as well. You also made things up to give ‘weight’ to your position. You can go find them yourself. Tell me, are ‘authorities’ like you the only ones ‘qualified’ to abuse these privileges because you once passed the bar exam? Seems a bit hypocritical for you to accuse me.

Out of curiosity, I look forward with confidence to a follow-up on this story discover if the range got sued for damages, who prevailed and if the range got sanctioned by the controlling federal agency over constructive violation of the NFA. (Or were boycotted into bankruptcy.) Can you say the same, Mark? No accusatory tone implied and I hope none is inferred.

William Harkness

note to self…….nvm there are to many to list

Jones2112

When the range said to come back at the end of the night I would have called the police and said the range is illegally holding my NFA item. When the law showed up I bet they would have called the range cold and retrieved your suppressor…

Joel WS

Exactly!

Archie Montgomery

Perhaps it is past time for the owner to be responsible for his own equipment instead of expecting others to be responsible for his errors?

Demanding a private company abandon their safety to accommodate one’s technical errors or lack of foresight is not particularly admirable.

Joel WS

It may not be good for their business future if the account gets around. They sound like idiots to me. If they are “too busy” to handle an incident as simple as this one – and violate criminal statutes in the process – they may just be in it for the money. If you don’t actually give a crap about your clients’ or customers’ satisfaction you may not last very long as a business; or you might be a government agency.

Paws Refresh

So you let the suppressor come loose enough to fly down the range, including all that it implies and it was the ranges fault. Now you want the entire range shut down for you or you hold the range responsible. You must be a Democrat.

Joel WS

If it was an unforeseen accident it was no one’s fault. That the range owner failed to follow the law and ALSO failed to properly safeguard the item in their possession makes them both criminally and civilly liable. This is not lib BS, it is established LAW. If you don’t like law and order, maybe it’s YOU that is the Democrat in this scenario?

Kelly Harbeson

Glad the range saw the light. They are not allowed to hold an NFA item for 24 hours without a transfer.

Baer45

I love the comments of “juicy lawsuit”, “call ATF” and immediate attack of a small business who has enough problems with liability, anti gunners, armor piercing rounds being shot through expensive equipment, period of no ammo availability, etc. just to support the shooting sports and maybe make a dollar. Everyone is a “victim” and if life doesn’t go your way, an attorney willing to do justice (for 50%) is just a phone call away…

Perhaps the range should have handled it differently, but the cause of the problem was the gun owner with a suppresor not attached properly and that is where this should end…otherwise in the future generations citizens would only dream of having this problem to whine about…

Joel WS

You are entitled to your opinion, as are others who might disagree. That’s why we have civil courts, including small claims court. If there is merit and existing statutes, the plaintiff can not only file a law suit, he very well may prevail and be awarded damages. I’d argue this guy has such a solid case and given the apparent violation of law by the range owner(s) the best things to do are to buy the man another suppressor, apologize, and not be “too busy” to do the proper thing in the future. File it under “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”.

If I was the range owner, I would have called a two minute time out to enable the retrieval of the suppressor.
What harm would a two minute pause have caused?
Better to keep a paying customer happy.
If I had been one of the other customers there that day, I wouldn’t have objected to a brief time out, as long as it didn’t drag on too long.

Kit Harper

The range safety officer should have called for a cease fire to retrieve the suppressor as it is a ricochet potential. I don’t think that I would return to that range as it seems that they haven’t a good grip on safety. Glad they at least paid for repair/replacement.

Joel WS

Another excellent comment and points well made!

JJ

Ok, a couple mistakes made. We’re still human and not perfect except for Currie. If the situation was that it rolled off the bench or someone looking at it and then dropped it, wouldn’t it still be the responsible thing to do and cease fire? What range, with all the liabilities today, would not want to insure some deviant didn’t shoot the lump of metal and cause someone or something further damage? It takes just one. Personally, I would have stayed there and insisted that firing be ceased as soon as could be. If they pushed back, I would have asked how the wanted to handle local law enforcement and an ATF field agent when they arrived. Their continuance put lives in danger at worse. Their decision caused unnecessary property damage which as a result could be higher than small claims can handle. Why would a company purposely put themselves in those scenarios? That RO sounds like “That Guy” who slams his hand in a car door just to see if it hurts or not. Definite lessons to be learned here on both sides. One was an accident. One was purposeful with higher consequences and financial implications. Glad SilencerCo took care of you. Shows professional attitude and integrity above and beyond. The range got off too easy in my opinion. If it got closed or fined, they deserved it. If they banned suppressor use, they chop off their own revenue of sales and use from suppressors. How stupid would they look if they sold them but didn’t approve the use on their own range?

ramv36

I would think not issuing a cease fire and clearing the range of a foreign object would create liability for the range. The backstop is compromised at that point. It is entirely feasible a round could have hit that suppressor and ricocheted right back into the firing line. I’ve seen that happen on steel targets in smallbore silhouette competition. Bullets contacting solid surfaces have mostly unpredictible behavior.

HM

“The first shot I took with my 10.5″ AR-15 ended up shooting my SilencerCo Omega all the way to the back of the range.”

As the RO I would have allowed the retrieval and told you not to come back.

Ben Bushong

What would they have done if someone had dropped a pistol in front of the firing line? Tell them to leave it there, and that they won’t call a cease fire? That’s absolutely ridiculous that they wouldn’t call a cease fire for a silencer that went downrange…

David J. Stuehr

Any metal object of that size, down range presents a safety issue regardless of value. Range officers should have called an immediate cease fire to clear the impact area of any object or property. Most shooters would understand!! Esp military trained. “Who is responsible for safety on the range?” “EVERYBODY!!”

Andrew Foss

The guy updated the post. It took someone else doing some arm twisting, but the range owner coughed up for a complete replacement instead of continuing to try to pull a Delta Airlines.

What’s so difficult with customer relations and PR? Customer relations boils down to one simple idea: “When you screw up, own it and make it right.” This keeps you from having to deal with a load of negative PR. You make it right and you make it known that you’re doing so, (owning your screwup) it’s no longer a story.

E Wolfe

I’ll add to the mix with the suggestion that other customers deliberately targeted the can while it lay on the floor downrange, exacerbating the risk of injury to other shooters from a ricochet. The target hangers are at a height which should preclude a claim of accidentally hitting the floor in front of the trap, four or five feet below a target. The range officer here was an arrogant ass IMO. And the can owner should be seriously embarrassed for neglecting to assure the can was properly torqued on prior to arriving at the range that day, or before his first discharge at the line. Keeping a kitchen hot pad handy and checking the can’s lock-up between strings or mag loads is a good habit to get into, if it is a direct thread attachment.

Core

Call a cease fire! Have RO retrieve metal object. It’s a hazard to have a metal object downrange unless it’s a properly setup target. Glad to hear it worked out. This is ignorant range operation/protocol! NRA CRSO here.

L Cavendish

so…who is liable if a ricochet occurs and someone is seriously injured?
It would have taken under 5 minutes to shut down and retrieve this expensive item…
no common sense.

Bloody Bucket

Next time call a cease fire, stop the firing line. When they said to come back the next day, inform them of NFA rules. They give you $hit? Call the police. I don’t mess around when it comes to the NFA. I’m glad everything worked out (p.s. I love my Omaga, too!).

gabriel brack

I don’t have nfa items because of the waiting period bs. But if that had been me, I would have forced a cease fire by crossing the firing line and retrieving my property. Membership at the range be damned. He’s obviously more civil than I am.

pepelapiu2004 .

So a range refusing to call got a ceasefire? What a bunch of morons!

Shiller Tiller

Parabellum Firearms is the place.

Meathead

Had I been at that range at that time, I WOULD NOT have minded the range going “cold” to facilitate the recovery of the suppressor. Had I been aware of the situation, I would have stood with the shooting customer, not the knuckleheads running the range.
Actually, the only reason that a suppressor cost so much and has to be “licensed” is because of the stupidity of legislators in 1938. The idiots had no conception of what they were voting on when they voted on the Federal Firearms Act and it wasn’t promptly challenged all the way to the Supreme Court.

Kenneth Wetzel

How about helping us out and tell us the ranges name and location.

asm826

The only way it could have been hit was by deliberate aim. Shooters moved away from their targets and aimed their firearms at this object on the range floor.

really.really!really?

I’ve seen people at ranges that are fortunate to hit the back stop. I think it was only a matter of time. And it sounded like a busy range with plenty of time left in the day.

Triplanetary

There is (unfortunately) more than one RSO out there with questionable judgement.

jimpeel

If range time is $20/hr and they closed 8 hours later it would have cost you $160 to rent the lane for the remainder of the day. That is far less than what you are going through and are going to go through.

Jarhead0369

I’ve been a instructor for many years and worked indoor and outdoor ranges. The people, both management and employees that refused to call a cease fire, should be fired. There is simply no excuse for leaving a 1k plus item out there to be shot at. I’ve called cease fire for recoil rods, magazine springs, hats, and all sorts of things.

I honestly wonder how in the world they thought they wouldn’t be immediately sued over it, nevermind the federal felonies involved; this country is far more trigger-happy with civil lawsuits than it is with actual triggers.

BillinDetroit

It wasn’t his range to call cold … so would you suggest that he just dash down the line and grab it?

Sounds like some dipwad used it for a target. That guy needs an attitude adjustment.

pepelapiu2004 .

It wasn’t his range to call cold?
I would have just asked all tge other shooters tgere if tgey mind calling it cold together with me so I can take 20 seconds to run down and fetch my can.

If you think I am suggesting to run up and down a hot range, you need to read my post again.

A THE USA was founded on the idea of holding the authorities accountable and challenging authority. Sadly, now it’s a nation of statist spineless birches.

Izzy

“Not going along with a stupid and unconstitutional law is equality stupid.”

I have a feeling you have said things like “don’t break the law, and you won’t have run ins with police.” Are you actually advocating breaking laws?

pepelapiu2004 .

When the law becomes retarded and unconstitutional, it is not only your moral right to disobey it, it is your moral duty to disobey it.

uisconfruzed

Call them out, name the range and the RSO!

really.really!really?

I never thought I’d see the meaningless, childish arguing and psychoanalyzing on the TFB like I’m seeing here today from a couple posters. Traveling “What IF” Blvd leads to no where.

Plastic Cup

I have yet to visit an indoor range that didn’t allow ANYONE to call a cease fire. Why didn’t you call for one? I’m sure that the other shooters and the RSO may have been a little inconvenienced and maybe even got a good laugh at your expense but they would have been rule-bound to honor your cease fire call.

Tom Currie

Yes, Goofus, the range officer DID act badly (as I said). The point however is that this snowflake is whining that he thinks the range violated the NFA, but in fact HE is the one who violated the NFA when he chose to leave.

There are lots of things that both sides should have done better — starting with the fool who didn’t bother checking his equipment before shooting — but a person who owns an NFA-registered item ought to know enough of the rules to understand that he could not legally go off and leave the suppressor with anyone else without a ton of paperwork.

yo dude

yes and no, The device was removed from his control via a malfunction. The range then denied any reasonable action to retrieve the device. I would not have left, he should not have left. I would have simply called a LEO and informed them of the situation and had them advise me of my recommended action while asking them if they wanted to talk to the RO.

Rusty Shackleford

Its really inconvenient for everyone to call a ceasefire for 5 minutes for someone to retrieve a heavily controlled item downrange eh?
This is why everyone hates indoor ranges. They’re a haven for crappy, non-nonsensical rules. Bad enough when one spergs out for collecting the brass from the overpriced ammo they made me buy.

Arr Evans

Because all the other shooters present love to pay for continuing range time because of someone’s negligence.
Were you willing to pay for everyone else’s time?
Doubt it.

Tom Miller

At every range I have ever been to anyone can call a cease fire. That is what I would have done and just walked down and retrieved the can. The worse they can do is make you leave.

Alexander Rasputin

that’s just crazy.

my friend launched a marlin 60 magazine tube down range once, no issue getting the RO to shut it down. for the 30 seconds to go pick it up.

Alan Hodges

Was the can on the rifle wrong? What caused the baffle strike?

ftp301

Why couldn’t you call cease fire yourself

Justin Bailey

Did you learn to check your gear?

BigJohnny

As a Class III Title 2 dealer many years ago, I had a client who purchased a AWC grease filled 9mm suppressor for a Beretta 92. They where quiet but, it was always a hand tighten threads so if you shot the weapon allot and forgot to tighten down after 10 to 15 rounds sometimes it walked out a bit. It did one time and the client with suppressor hands me the suppressor with a rather large bulge where a round hit the side of the suppressor mid way but did not go through. I called AWC, $200.00 for replacement. they are 100% sealed units except threads on end for barrel. The bad news it took longer for the ATF repair paper work to go to ATF and back to me then it took AWC for repair. I did the ATF paper work for nothing for customer. The unit was brand new and I (I know as a dealer this doesn’t sound right because dealers have no heart) felt bad about the situation. In your case I would have called ATF then and there and asked if they could come get my suppressor for me in front of the Manager because it’s at the back stop of the range and you can’t get it. Then say Mr. or Mrs. ATF when was the last time their books where checked at this location?

Justin Bailey

Did you apologize to everyone for bringing an unsafe firearm to the range?

RetiredSOFguy

So if you’re worried about the NFA issue (is it illegal for you to pass an NFA item to someone incorrectly in the same way it is for them to receive/hold it? I don’t know if culpability is only on the receiver.) then why didn’t you stay until closing?

Too inconvenient for you? You don’t seem to worry about inconveniencing the other shooters and the business. Yes, I know, on one hand it’s pretty trivial. On the other, after shooting at some outdoor public ranges where every 5 min you have to go cold for someone to go post, tape or take down targets, it gets old. This is a bit different, but now the precedent is set. The guy who lets his mag bounce past the line, “range is cold.” The guy who spills live ammo past the line, “range is cold.”

Crap situation all around, but if I was shooting next to you not only would I not have wanted to go cold for who knows how long while you look for the can (and who knows what may have come off of it you wanted to retrieve). Assurances it was intact and it would be “just a quick retrieval” would mean nothing to me from a guy who couldn’t properly mount his can in the first place.

Sorry, but this whole thing is on you. You should have stayed until closing. Maybe thought about how your inattention to detail might have been worse and resulted in a baffle strike going poorly and dinging some innocent in another bay.

And yeah, if it was my range, I’d have gone cold and given you 2 min to collect whatever amount of the silencer you could (more power to you if it was indeed fully intact), then loudly used you as an example of what not to do with everyone on the line and waiting in the lobby, banned you for life and instituted a “Mandreko fine” of some ridiculous amount for any other knucklehead who requires a cease fire to retrieve what never should have been lost in the first place.