Yeah, I mean we all get along about things in the real world so I can't see how anyone would disagree about video games, right?

Of course someone could have a bad experience with it, but that doesn't necessarily speak to its quality. For example, if someone found out his/her mother had died just as he/she started playing Saiyuki for the first time, he/she probably wouldn't ever be able to enjoy it. That doesn't mean it's a bad product or that the people who made it did a bad job in making it, and it shouldn't be taken as such - this is where any negative critiquing of Saiyuki is unfounded/insane. A mature/real critic would step back and evaluate the work that went into it the way only a fellow artist can, not state his/her likes and dislikes as facts, and stating one's preferences as facts is the only way one could assert "Saiyuki sucks" - a statement that should be objective. I'm never going to stop holding critics to a higher standard, even though doing so infuriates me. They're supposed to evaluate the work that went into making the product.

Anyone who can finish Xenosaga II without a GameShark is a better man than I. That game totally justified a GameShark. Too bad the gameplay was so busted because I thought it had the best plot of all the Xenosaga games.

In fact, when I have a looming backlog and feel obligated to finish stuff but I'm just too tired or burnt out, I'll gameshark my way through it then it's done, over with, and I got the story.

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"I think I'm losing it. I'm pulling out my hair trying to figure out what couch defines me as a person. This is freaking madness. This is hopeless. This... my perfect little habitat here, and I still don't even know who I am." - from Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom by Burnt By The Sun

I not only finished Xenosaga II without cheating, I did all of the sidequests, including the incredibly obnoxious Captain Mathews' debt thing...

I...I don't know why I did it. Looking back on it I still don't understand...such a waste of time. It's too bad PS2 games don't have trophies 'cause I would have platinumed that mofo. But I have yet to do so with a single PS3 game (and I'm starting to think I never will...).

I don't think cheating your way through a game with GS or AR codes is bad idea at all. At least you can still experience the plot and character devlopments. I guess I'm one of the few that actually did go through all though Xenosagas. Were any of them really THAT difficult? I don't remember any exccessive level grinding, but then again, it's been so damn long since they came out I wouldn't remember anyways. I was actually crushed (but not surprised) that the series got killed halfway through the dev's intended six games.

VC was tough but in a rewarding way I thought. You can use an FAQ to get through the battles surprisingly quickly (I almost quit on the last battle until I saw a youtube video showing me how to beat it in one turn!).

Suikoden 3 seems to be getting sacrificed too. No doubt it starts out extremely slow, but towards the end when all the storylines connect, it gets epic. I think that one's worth breaking out if anyone still owns it.

Difficulty is not the only reason to GameShark. Tedium is a reason as well. Xenosaga II wasn't necessarily difficult, but the Break Zone aspect of battles made battles needlessly drag. If you took the whole Break Zone mechanic out of Xenosaga II, it would be a much more tolerable game.

As for unfinished games, I have a few but don't feel any great obligation to beat them.

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"I think I'm losing it. I'm pulling out my hair trying to figure out what couch defines me as a person. This is freaking madness. This is hopeless. This... my perfect little habitat here, and I still don't even know who I am." - from Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom by Burnt By The Sun

Back when I started playing RPGs they were by far the last option I would cheat on but as time passed, I changed my perspective.

If I have a good game but with some â€œarguableâ€ design choices and I'm still liking the game, instead of just dropping it, I'll use a cheat.

For example, not everybody wants to die a thousand times in Demon's Soul in order to enjoy it, that why some people, myself included, used the soul glitch from the asian version.Other games I can happily remember cheating were Odin Sphere, SMT Nocturne, Dragon Quest VIII.

Interesting is that in other difficult games I simply take the challange and actually enjoy them a lot. I don't have a rule but I say if the game starts being more work than fun, use cheats before you start hating it.

I've never once cheated in a Megami Tensei game. On the other hand, I've cheated in Final Fantasy games. FF13 is one I'd gladly cheat through.

As for the original topic, I'm still trying to think of a game I ever regretted not finishing. There are a bunch over the years I never finished... Ahh, here's one: Radiant Historia. I didn't finish it because I was under a deadline to review it and didn't finish it by the deadline. I also had a press copy that I had to send back to Atlus. I did end up buying the game, but never had the heart to restart it from the beginning. And of course I think, "someday I'll fire it up again" but then some other shiny object may intrigue me.

The game is still superultrasexy good.

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"I think I'm losing it. I'm pulling out my hair trying to figure out what couch defines me as a person. This is freaking madness. This is hopeless. This... my perfect little habitat here, and I still don't even know who I am." - from Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom by Burnt By The Sun

I not only finished Xenosaga II without cheating, I did all of the sidequests, including the incredibly obnoxious Captain Mathews' debt thing...

I...I don't know why I did it. Looking back on it I still don't understand...such a waste of time. It's too bad PS2 games don't have trophies 'cause I would have platinumed that mofo. But I have yet to do so with a single PS3 game (and I'm starting to think I never will...).

I also finished it without cheating, though I didn't do the sidequests (I did them all in Ep. 1 and 3 though).

The only way I cheat in most games these days is to look up miss-able trophies/achievements and what various items/consumables can be used for, especially one time things like the souls from boss demons in Demon's Souls.

After this topic I had a sudden urge to go back to SMT Strange Journey but it can be so punishing at times so I'm taking my own advice and cheating!

About Radiant Historia, I'm still at the very beginning, but somehow I don't know what to do to move the story and since it so far haven't clicked with me I may be putting it on this sad list of games to finish.

Talking about unfinished games still, I would like to ask for a suggestion: should I continue with SMT Nocturne which I have already started (just passed through El Matador) or Digital Devil Saga from the beginning ?

Yeah, I mean we all get along about things in the real world so I can't see how anyone would disagree about video games, right?

Of course someone could have a bad experience with it, but that doesn't necessarily speak to its quality. For example, if someone found out his/her mother had died just as he/she started playing Saiyuki for the first time, he/she probably wouldn't ever be able to enjoy it. That doesn't mean it's a bad product or that the people who made it did a bad job in making it, and it shouldn't be taken as such - this is where any negative critiquing of Saiyuki is unfounded/insane. A mature/real critic would step back and evaluate the work that went into it the way only a fellow artist can, not state his/her likes and dislikes as facts, and stating one's preferences as facts is the only way one could assert "Saiyuki sucks" - a statement that should be objective. I'm never going to stop holding critics to a higher standard, even though doing so infuriates me. They're supposed to evaluate the work that went into making the product.

The fallacy of your position is that you think objective evaluations exist. They don't. Most of the time, the critics people trust tend to have not steered them wrong in the past or have a similar scope of interest.

Your bit about "mature/real" critics is laughable, as you denounce anyone who has a contrary view as insane. Very mature, indeed.

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Thoren: Astronomers fucking love stars and shit. Whitman was a bitch.Hidoshi: Walt Whitman could beat you with both dicks tied behind his back.

A mature/real critic would step back and evaluate the work that went into it the way only a fellow artist can,

Well, critics evaluate the end result, not the process. Reviews aren't meant as feedback for the creator, they're written as advice for consumers. Also, we're not grading math tests, but pieces of entertainment with many different aspects. Just like normal people we critics all have different priorities and tastes. But here's the thing, whether we like a game or not, we always explain why.

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not state his/her likes and dislikes as facts

That's simply a way of writing a review. As a critic you want to project some authority. I don't think you'd take a review with sentences that start with "I like" and "In my opinion" very seriously.

A critic is only as objective as the amount of material he has observed and critiqued, being that it is impossible to observe ALL given material for any particular matter subjectivity will always enter the picture.... I forget offhand which philosopher said it but a quote I always appreciated was "to become good artists, we must become first good critics... and the only way to do that is to view and review art constantly". I believe the same holds true for games in a sense.... To be good gamers we must get to know what we like, to do that we must become critics ourselves in a sense, and for us to reach (with any degree of objectivity) a conclusion as to what is "good" or "bad" we need contrast.... we need to play games....

Why I am spouting this? Well I think its highly relevant to the thread itself.... There are just way too many RPGs to play through and thus becoming a good critic to determine which is worth our precious time (especially if your like me, 26 living waaaay beyond your means and working 12-16 hours a day.....) is what this is all about.

Now as for that topic..... I totally took the advice of one of the replies to me instructing me to finish lunar 2 based on other oppinions expressed... Why? Because it clearly demonstrated the critic in questions' objective and subjective viewpoints were congruent with my own..... And So...........

Yeah, I mean we all get along about things in the real world so I can't see how anyone would disagree about video games, right?

Of course someone could have a bad experience with it, but that doesn't necessarily speak to its quality. For example, if someone found out his/her mother had died just as he/she started playing Saiyuki for the first time, he/she probably wouldn't ever be able to enjoy it. That doesn't mean it's a bad product or that the people who made it did a bad job in making it, and it shouldn't be taken as such - this is where any negative critiquing of Saiyuki is unfounded/insane. A mature/real critic would step back and evaluate the work that went into it the way only a fellow artist can, not state his/her likes and dislikes as facts, and stating one's preferences as facts is the only way one could assert "Saiyuki sucks" - a statement that should be objective. I'm never going to stop holding critics to a higher standard, even though doing so infuriates me. They're supposed to evaluate the work that went into making the product.

The fallacy of your position is that you think objective evaluations exist. They don't. Most of the time, the critics people trust tend to have not steered them wrong in the past or have a similar scope of interest.

Your bit about "mature/real" critics is laughable, as you denounce anyone who has a contrary view as insane. Very mature, indeed.

.........I couldn't agree more with that.....

And by the way, Lunar 2 was an excellent pick!! I freakin' love this game now just as much as I did when I was a kid playing it on Sega CD.

I actually thought XS2 is much better than 3, due to the battle system. The one in 2 is engaging but the one in 3 is very boring. I can't bring myself to finish 3 yet. I really really want to, maybe I finish it someday.