February 3, 2010, 5:26 pm
Oakland Tries to Take On Guns
By MELANIE MASON

After Tuesday night’s city council meeting, Oakland is one step closer to approving stricter gun control laws.

The council unanimously approved, in the first reading, a measure proposed by Larry Reid, a council member representing East Oakland. The measure consists of three proposed changes: Require the reporting of lost or stolen firearms to the Oakland Police Department; require a thumbprint for all ammunition purchases and enforce strict permit requirements for the sale of firearms and ammunition in Oakland. The council is expected to consider the proposal for a final vote on Feb. 16.

That idea to restrict the sale of firearms in Oakland has riled some people, because, as the San Francisco Chronicle reported, Oakland does not have any firearms dealers that sell to the public. On its website, Calguns, the gun rights group, said that the ordinance is “an extensive, draconian regulation of firearms, firearm components, and ammunition vendors, which will basically make it impossible to have a gun store in the City of Oakland.”

This is the second time in two weeks that the city officials have asserted their pro-gun-control stance. On January 19, the council authorized city attorney, John Russo, to sign a friend-of-the-court brief in the case of McDonald vs. Chicago, which is to begin oral arguments in front of the Supreme Court this March. McDonald would decide if state and local gun control laws are subject to the Second Amendment (the Court’s landmark gun control decision, District of Columbia v. Heller, only applied to Washington D.C.). Oakland joins other jurisdictions like Richmond, Sacramento and Alameda County in asserting that the Second Amendment does not apply to state and municipal governments.

On Tuesday, I spoke to Mr. Russo and Reygan Harmon, a legislative analyst for Mr. Reid, about the status of gun control laws in Oakland. Their comments have been condensed and edited.

Q.

How did these proposals come about? What was the strategy?

A.

Ms. Harmon: The Legal Community Against Violence approached the city of Oakland almost two years ago, when they did an audit of our municipal code. They gave us suggestions on enhancing local gun control laws.

A lot of the laws that are on the books prior to these proposed changes are no longer applicable because California state laws have changed. This is cleaning up the municipal code, because we haven’t really looked at gun control laws in ten years.

A.

Mr. Russo: The national landscape is in flux. Our strategy is to try to find ways to protect ourselves. That’s really what it’s about. The reality is that we’re trying to fashion solutions in the real world, as opposed to these people who want to have a very academic discussion about the scope of the Second Amendment.

Q.

Why include a proposal that regulates firearms dealers, when there currently are no licensed dealers in Oakland that sell to the public?

A.

Mr. Russo: Council member Reid has one of the more challenged districts in the city. I think he wants to be sure that nobody gets any ideas of opening something. And if they did, they could regulate it under this law.

Q.

What impact can one city’s gun control laws have?

A.

Mr. Russo: The reality is that this is something that’s better handled federally or at the state level. No question about that. The irony is that’s the argument that gets made by largely pointy-headed, theoretical pro-gun people. But at the same time, they are vehemently opposed to federal regulation.

Still, if a couple people end up not getting killed, I’m not going to apologize. I’m not going to try to take away efforts that will only be incrementally successful if they are life saving efforts.

Ms. Harmon: I think one city can do the best they can, and that’s what we’re trying to do. We’re working with neighboring cities like Richmond, San Francisco and San Mateo so we have similar legislation to make it more difficult for people to go city to city. All we can do, or all San Francisco or Richmond can do, is tighten up the laws in their cities.

dantodd

02-03-2010, 7:36 PM

Perhaps they would be open to CGF doing an "audit of our municipal code. They gave us suggestions on enhancing local gun control laws."

Then they could adjust those codes to ensure they are in line with Federal, State, and case law.

Is "pointy-headed" a euphemism for "smarter than me"

hill billy

02-03-2010, 7:36 PM

Hopefully he'll be so much hot air shortly.

oaklander

02-03-2010, 7:39 PM

Instead of dismissing us as Neanderthals, he's now taking the opposite tact and dismissing us as intellectuals?

I predict a well-written response to his words.

Perhaps they would be open to CGF doing an "audit of our municipal code. They gave us suggestions on enhancing local gun control laws."

Then they could adjust those codes to ensure they are in line with Federal, State, and case law.

Is "pointy-headed" a euphemism for "smarter than me"

rkt88edmo

02-03-2010, 7:40 PM

Russo wants to be mayor and may have a decent shot at it one of these days.

Also - for those who aren't aware, Oakland has a special tax they levy on stores that sell guns which applies to everything, so if you buy a fishing rod you have to pay more for it than you would at a store that doesn't sell guns. That was one of the major factors that drove Siegle's (sp?), Oakland's last gun store, out of business.

I can accept a "pointy headed" label......since it's come from a lame-brain! :rolleyes:

WokMaster1

02-03-2010, 7:49 PM

Russo wants to be mayor and may have a decent shot at it one of these days.

Also - for those who aren't aware, Oakland has a special tax they levy on stores that sell guns which applies to everything, so if you buy a fishing rod you have to pay more for it than you would at a store that doesn't sell guns. That was one of the major factors that drove Siegle's (sp?), Oakland's last gun store, out of business.

Also - for those who aren't aware, Oakland has a special tax they levy on stores that sell guns which applies to everything, so if you buy a fishing rod you have to pay more for it than you would at a store that doesn't sell guns. That was one of the major factors that drove Siegle's (sp?), Oakland's last gun store, out of business.

Incorporation should provide an avenue to put a stop to that.

Alaric

02-03-2010, 7:57 PM

An outright admission to incrementalism. Fascinating. Is that a first for someone in such a position as his?

GunNutz

02-03-2010, 8:02 PM

If he has to play the "academic" card, then he clearly knows he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

Also, how ironic that he would be interested in "practical" rather than academic solutions considering that Oakland doesn't have any real gun stores. (So the net effect is "practically" speaking, very little.)

mblat

02-03-2010, 8:31 PM

Considering names on the CGF letter, I think he will have a chance to find out that this discussion is FAR from being purely academic.
Too bad Oakland taxpayers will end up paying for it.

eaglemike

02-03-2010, 8:34 PM

Old technique - if you can't debate the facts well, attack or label the opponent......

And that's the point isn't it? Mr. Russo, along with LCAV, is engaging with theory. We, on the other hand, have that pesky constitution thingee and several hundred years of jurisprudence and legal scholarship as the point of our argument.

In a perfect and logical world, Russo's theory would never be entertained.

RP1911

02-03-2010, 8:40 PM

Can we PRAR Reid's and Russo's financials? I suspect LCAV has funded Reid's campaign. Be good to know if it was right before or right after. Should do similar in Sacramento, Richmond and San Francisco.

If there is a pattern, FPPC may want to look into it.

twotap

02-03-2010, 8:43 PM

Why didn't calguns hold a news conference like the city did??

navyinrwanda

02-03-2010, 8:48 PM

I can't say that I'm too surprised. Bay Area government officials generally move in similar circles with the same private sector attorneys who practice pro bono "public service" law — the same types that help the LCAV. And in these circles, gun control is such a mom-and-apple pie issue that voting "yes" for new ordinances is as reflexive as voting for Barack Obama.

They truly think that any opposition could only come from fringe anti-social extremists or the "gun industry lobby" who want to make money from the slaughter of Oakland's innocents. If there's any hope of getting through to these people (short of an injunction), it'll take a different argument from a different kind of person... not middle-aged overweight white males whining about their "rights" being violated.

Gene and other have suggested that we need more minorities as part of our public face. If we ever want our arguments to be heard by these types, they'll have to be spoken by disabled African-American lesbian single mothers defending themselves and their children.

Or we'll need a big bank account to finance a lot of litigation.

wildhawker

02-03-2010, 8:50 PM

I'm up for both.

Gene and other have suggested that we need more minorities as part of our public face. If we ever want our arguments to be heard by these types, they'll have to be spoken by disabled African-American lesbian single mothers defending themselves and their children.

Or we'll need a big bank account to finance a lot of litigation.

trashman

02-03-2010, 8:58 PM

At least 60% of the people on this board (myself included) would consider being called "pointy-headed" a compliment.

(It's an upgrade from 'propeller-head' btw")

--Neill

CCWFacts

02-03-2010, 9:02 PM

Perhaps they would be open to CGF doing an "audit of our municipal code.

Well, it's looking like the Supreme Court is going to invite CGF to audit Oakland's muni codes and CCW policy.

Instead of dismissing us as Neanderthals, he's now taking the opposite tact and dismissing us as intellectuals?

Yes, I love it! First we were denigrated as hicks, now we're, um, denigrated as being too intellectual?

Anyway, Mr. Russo, I have a not-theoretical plan for helping Oakland's most hopeless neighborhoods. It's not just a flippant, sarcastic plan, but a real one that would work:

The big problem that is blocking any effective law enforcement solutions in Oakland's most troubled neighborhoods is the "don't snitch" movement. This movement is both a value-belief, and also a set of enforcement mechanisms, which prevent law abiding residents from helping the police to help protect them. Obviously there is social pressure to "don't snitch" but it's backed by imminent violence to anyone who breaks the code. That is why the Bay Area routinely has murders in crowded places in broad daylight and there are no witnesses somehow.
If they want to break the "don't snitch" concept they need to give people confidence that they will be safe after they present their information to the police. Not just the person who talks, but his family and so on.
Unfortunately Oakland doesn't have the resources to assign police officers to work as 24-hour bodyguards for everyone (and his family) who calls in a valuable gang tip. It's just not possible. There is only one solution: if the person has not had person criminal involvement, he needs a CCW. Patrick McCullough got one because he reported gang activity. Oakland needs a thousand Patrick McCulloughs.

darkshier

02-03-2010, 9:06 PM

Pretty insulting. What's up with all these cities and counties working together to restrict our rights though? I swear, you should at least have to read the Constitution before you pretend to serve the public.

M. Sage

02-03-2010, 9:18 PM

Mr. Russo strikes me as the pointy-haired type. (Dilbert reference for those left wondering.)

yellowfin

02-03-2010, 9:24 PM

Or we'll need a big bank account to finance a lot of litigation.Better idea: sue them and take the money and recycle it against them over and over. Sun Tzu taught us that the way to win a long war when fighting in enemy territory is to feed off their resources. We should do that.

hoffmang

02-03-2010, 9:32 PM

I love being called pointy headed!

-Gene

M. Sage

02-03-2010, 9:39 PM

BTW, I'm sure we all know it, but I'd just like to point out that you know you have a leftist scared when the name-calling starts. He knows he's going to get owned if he tries to compete, so he's just going to try and belittle you and make you seem insignificant.

This is a great sign - keep the pressure up.

timdps

02-03-2010, 9:49 PM

Oakland joins other jurisdictions like Richmond, Sacramento and Alameda County in asserting that the Second Amendment does not apply to state and municipal governments.

But the First, Fourth, Fifth and the rest of the Amendments DO apply to state and municipal governments? Why would not the second apply as well?

The reality is that we’re trying to fashion solutions in the real world, as opposed to these people who want to have a very academic discussion about the scope of the Second Amendment.

So us redneck, duck huntin', bible toting, gun nuts are now academics?
That's quite a turnaround! Does that mean the the people who are " trying to fashion solutions in the real world" are now the less intelligent parties in the game?
Are we seeing a bit of desperation here?

Following the MacDonald decision, the "discussion" is going to be a lot more than "academic".

Mr. Russo: The reality is that this is something that’s better handled federally or at the state level. No question about that.

No sir, no question about that! Its going to get "handled" at the Federal (SCOTUS) level and Mr. Russo will have his "gun control laws" handed back to him in ribbons.

I know some of you live there, or close by....and this antigun foolishness can't be tolerated...

...but who (that has a range of options) would open a business in $%^&ijn Oakland anyway? I think Oakland, I think Hells Angels, Black Panthers, and welfare slums...

BTW, you need some coneheads to wear to the next Council meeting, where you serve your pre-litigation demand letter...
.

oaklander

02-03-2010, 10:28 PM

Well, the other part that doesn't get mentioned is a new law that would make me a criminal if my guns got stolen, and I didn't report it quick enough.

THAT hits home, and must not be tolerated!

I know some of you live there, or close by....and this antigun foolishness can't be tolerated...

...but who (that has a range of options) would open a business in $%^&ijn Oakland anyway? I think Oakland, I think Hells Angels, Black Panthers, and welfare slums...

BTW, you need some coneheads to wear to the next Council meeting, where you serve your pre-litigation demand letter...
.

KylaGWolf

02-03-2010, 10:31 PM

I honestly think my accounting teacher has a valid point. That ALL politicians should be forced to take an accounting class before they are sworn in so they know just how money affects things. The idiots that came up with these suggestions are going to cost the city money when they are sued.

oaklander

02-03-2010, 10:33 PM

ps - I just blogged this - http://kevinthomason.blogspot.com/2010/02/oakland-city-attorney-calls-gun-people.html

And all my blog entries go out to 1000 influential tweet followers - let's see if this goes viral or not. . .

GuyW

02-03-2010, 10:41 PM

Don't seem to be able to post there, 'cause I don't do this twitty stuff, but if I could...

"If this "pointy-headed" public comment is indicative of Russo's intellectual prowess, he must get owned every time he steps into an unbiased Courtroom..."

oaklander

02-03-2010, 10:44 PM

He also said that conversations about the 2A were largely academic.

"The reality is that we’re trying to fashion solutions in the real world, as opposed to these people who want to have a very academic discussion about the scope of the Second Amendment."

Yes, let's have a very academic discussion about the 14th amendment, 'cause you know, it's just the constitution. . . and doesn't mean anything in the real world.

Don't seem to be able to post there, 'cause I don't do this twitty stuff, but if I could...

"If this "pointy-headed" public comment is indicative of Russo's intellectual prowess, he must get owned every time he steps into an unbiased Courtroom..."

Gaucho

02-03-2010, 11:11 PM

I sent him a respectful but forceful e-mail. I was sure to point out I live in Oakland, vote in every election, and told him I will vote for his opponent should he have political aspirations.

But how good a politician can he be? How idiotic for him say the things he did!

If the nature of my work allows me to donate to CGF, I will. I unfortunately have restrictions to getting involved in politics, so I need to look into that first.

wildhawker

02-03-2010, 11:26 PM

CGF, as a 501(c)3, is limited in its lobbying efforts and cannot endorse candidates to political office. Lobbying, propaganda or other legislative activity must be kept relatively insubstantial. Intervention in political campaigns or the endorsement/anti-endorsement of candidates for public office is strictly prohibited.

By supporting CGF you would not be getting involved in politics. You would be contributing to educational and legal efforts.

I sent him a respectful but forceful e-mail. I was sure to point out I live in Oakland, vote in every election, and told him I will vote for his opponent should he have political aspirations.

But how good a politician can he be? How idiotic for him say the things he did!

If the nature of my work allows me to donate to CGF, I will. I unfortunately have restrictions to getting involved in politics, so I need to look into that first.

Swiss

02-03-2010, 11:32 PM

I thought AB.962 already required a thumbprint?

These folks think we are idiots - just look at some of the quotes that I have highlighted. . .

February 3, 2010, 5:26 pm
Oakland Tries to Take On Guns
By MELANIE MASON

After Tuesday night’s city council meeting, Oakland is one step closer to approving stricter gun control laws.

The council unanimously approved, in the first reading, a measure proposed by Larry Reid, a council member representing East Oakland. The measure consists of three proposed changes: Require the reporting of lost or stolen firearms to the Oakland Police Department; require a thumbprint for all ammunition purchases and enforce strict permit requirements for the sale of firearms and ammunition in Oakland. The council is expected to consider the proposal for a final vote on Feb. 16.

wildhawker

02-03-2010, 11:37 PM

That portion of AB962 doesn't do into effect until Feb 1, 2011.

Or, more likely, never... :whistling:

I thought AB.962 already required a thumbprint?

nick

02-03-2010, 11:41 PM

I honestly think my accounting teacher has a valid point. That ALL politicians should be forced to take an accounting class before they are sworn in so they know just how money affects things. The idiots that came up with these suggestions are going to cost the city money when they are sued.

Oh, they often know this. They just don't care. It's not their money, and they feel perfectly justified in wasting someone else's money on their personal grandstanding. If you think you're dealing with honorable people, you should get rid of that dangerous illusion as soon as possible.

lockwrench

02-03-2010, 11:42 PM

I thought AB.962 already required a thumbprint?

AB962 is -- sort of -- restricted, applying to ammunition "primarily for use in handguns."

Except that after Feb 1, 2011, the Oakland ordinance will not apply to ammunition "principally for use in pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person." This has some odd implications if you
read carefully.

Seesm

02-04-2010, 12:35 AM

Pointed line cone heads? Hhhmm WEIRD.

N6ATF

02-04-2010, 12:38 AM

Pretty insulting. What's up with all these cities and counties working together to restrict our rights though? I swear, you should at least have to read the Constitution before you pretend to serve the public.

Oh, the traitors read it. It's printed on their toilet paper. How else would they know to violate it 24/7/365?

oaklander

02-04-2010, 12:40 AM

We have a message for Dellums (and the rest of Oakland City government):

http://i48.tinypic.com/f5adlw.jpg

bigcalidave

02-04-2010, 3:30 AM

Hmmm...

So now we are just on a theoretical gun rights movement? I'm fairly confident that we act on our beliefs here.

Can't wait till they all eat their words.

M. Sage

02-04-2010, 4:40 AM

I know. "Theoretical" kills me. As if I never carry a gun, and I haven't kept guns around for defensive purposes for years and I know I'm far from the only one. If that's not practical, I don't know what is.

Vinz

02-04-2010, 6:47 AM

...what ever Mr Stinkie Mc Stink face, what a lint licker...

is it me or does Mr Russo look like he lives in "VAN DOWN BY THE RIIIVERRR"

and I hope he's not referring to this....cause that goes way out to left field of wrong and offensive.
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/hatred-2.jpg

I prefer "bullet shaped"
vinz

SDJim

02-04-2010, 7:18 AM

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win." Mahatma Gandhi

He looks like Milton from Office Space - be careful he might burn the place down!

dantodd

02-04-2010, 8:36 AM

When one has the high ground it is best not to give it up voluntarily. This is true of a hill on a battlefield as well as the moral high ground in a debate.

M. Sage

02-04-2010, 9:37 AM

When one has the high ground it is best not to give it up voluntarily. This is true of a hill on a battlefield as well as the moral high ground in a debate.

Yep. Don't sink to his level - it's what he wants, and why progressives always use this tactic.

jdberger

02-04-2010, 10:06 AM

BTW, you need some coneheads to wear to the next Council meeting, where you serve your pre-litigation demand letter...
.

I think that might be an excellent idea.

Nothing like a little political theater.

oaklander

02-05-2010, 4:15 PM

I know (or at least hope) that you are kidding. Please see my post on the 2/16 meeting.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=266833

Here is the relevant portion:

ETA: Some have suggested (half in jest) that we wear "cone heads or dunce caps." This was in response to a statement made by the City Attorney that gun owners are pointy headed intellectuals. PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS. The TV cameras are located on the other side of the room, and when they pan across the gallery, all they will see will be a bunch of people who look like Klansmen from a distance. This will pretty much cancel out anything positive that we may gain by our appearance at the City Council meeting, and may even have negative effects on the potential litigation. This is the type of image and video that would go viral in a heartbeat, SO DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

I think that might be an excellent idea.

Nothing like a little political theater.

GuyW

02-05-2010, 4:28 PM

I know (or at least hope) that you are kidding. Please see my post on the 2/16 meeting.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=266833

Here is the relevant portion:

Well, my comment was made in the context of a future meeting where only a demand letter was being served....and not in terms of this type of appearance...
.

gbp

02-05-2010, 5:27 PM

yep i think she just called me a racist, with the pointed head thingy, where is the ACLU when you need them
and where are all the arrests for pointed headed people that are committing all these crimes
what a tool

oaklander

02-05-2010, 6:45 PM

No problem!

At first I thought it would have been funny too!

Then I got to thinking about how the MSM would portray us!!!

Eeeek!

Well, my comment was made in the context of a future meeting where only a demand letter was being served....and not in terms of this type of appearance...
.

cbn620

02-05-2010, 6:47 PM

Honestly if they weren't angry at us, I'd be concerned. Of course the other side is angry. They're quickly realizing the jig is up.

dantodd

02-05-2010, 8:32 PM

No problem!

At first I thought it would have been funny too!

Then I got to thinking about how the MSM would portray us!!!

Eeeek!

You could just wear black cone heads. Be hard to mistake those for sheets. :D

M. Sage

02-05-2010, 11:40 PM

You could just wear black cone heads. Be hard to mistake those for sheets. :D

Dude, the MSM portrayed a black man carrying a black rifle as a white racist redneck carrying a machine gun.

They will find a way. Facts don't matter to the MSM - if the real ones don't fit what they need, they'll make some of their own.

oaklander

02-05-2010, 11:55 PM

Folks, if anyone comes to the 2/16/2010 CC meeting with any sort of cone on their head, I will personally kick them in the nuts, and force them to use their cone as a suppository.

:p

Dude, the MSM portrayed a black man carrying a black rifle as a white racist redneck carrying a machine gun.

They will find a way. Facts don't matter to the MSM - if the real ones don't fit what they need, they'll make some of their own.

7x57

02-05-2010, 11:57 PM

Folks, if anyone comes to the 2/16/2010 CC meeting with any sort of cone on their head, I will personally kick them in the nuts, and force them to use their cone as a suppository.

:p

What about a dodecahedron, or perhaps a nice ellipsoid of revolution?

7x57

oaklander

02-05-2010, 11:58 PM

I'm not against polyhedra, so I'll make an exception for pirate hats, since they are, well, cool. . .

:D

What about a dodecahedron, or perhaps a nice ellipsoid of revolution?

7x57

dantodd

02-06-2010, 12:03 AM

I'm not against polyhedra, so I'll make an exception for pirate hats, since they are, well, cool. . .