robsraiders wrote:
Attendance was higher than 8 Conference games, so not that bad in context

But this is, and always has been, a ridiculous way of judging attendance.

You judge attendances within the context of your own club - is it enough to get sufficient funds into our coffers to cover our own outgoings?

If our attendance dropped to 1,000, it'd still be higher than most clubs in non-league. But it would also be very bad for us because we rely on crowds through the door for our finances. That's the context in which we judge our attendances.

Put another way, if Man Utd's attendances dropped from 75k to regularly being 60k, they wouldn't say: "We're still getting better crowds than most clubs in the land." They'd be asking why their attendance has dropped by 20%.

Last edited by Darlogramps on Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

robsraiders wrote:
Attendance was higher than 8 Conference games, so not that bad in context

But this is, and always has been, a ridiculous way of judging attendance.

You judge attendances within the context of our own club - is it enough to get sufficient funds into our coffers to cover our own outgoings?

If our attendance dropped to 1,000, it'd still be higher than most clubs in non-league. But it would also be very bad for us because we rely on crowds through the door for our finances. That's the context in which we judge our attendances.

Put another way, if Man Utd's attendances dropped from 75k to regularly being 60k, they wouldn't say: "We're still getting better crowds than most clubs in the land." They'd be asking why their attendance has dropped by 20%.

Geez just as you like to point out and give your opinion I think our attendances stack up against a higher league, that's all nothing more or nothing less, not trying to score points off any one on here.
The board would set the budget against what they believe the average attendance will be, the fact is that people who said they would attend when we returned to town have NOT come back, now how do we get them to return? Like most clubs its winning football

robsraiders wrote:Geez just as you like to point out and give your opinion I think our attendances stack up against a higher league, that's all nothing more or nothing less, not trying to score points off any one on here.
The board would set the budget against what they believe the average attendance will be, the fact is that people who said they would attend when we returned to town have NOT come back, now how do we get them to return? Like most clubs its winning football

No need to be defensive, for once I wasn't having a pop. By my standards that's incredibly polite for a disagreement.

Just pointing out that we can't say an attendance was good because it was higher than other than those of clubs. It doesn't work like that.

As you say, winning games is a big factor, although with us, I'd suggest a lot of hardcore fans underestimate the reputational damage the last 15 years has done to us as a club within the town.

And the fact Blackwell Meadows isn't the most appealing to visit (poor sightlines etc) won't help either.

Today was very disappointing. We went to pot after letting Curzon Ashton go level. We clearly have work to do on our fitness levels and need to start operating as a team very quickly.

However it’s the first competitive game the lads have played together. I won’t be getting to upset and making and rash criticisms until we’ve seen the month out at least.

I thought barring the equaliser Maddison had a good game, even turning the clock back to pull the ball back (from what looked like behind the line) at one stage and the penalty save.

Ange scored a good goal with a run timed to perfection.

There were other positives around the field (We all know Wheatley & Trotman can do, Tez looked quite solid, Elliot and Nicholson clearly have potential. Styche another one we no is quality) but overall we need to really turn it up a few levels.

Onwards and upwards I say.

As for the attendance, ultimately only winning games will increase interest and bring people back. All this “sight lines” and “the rugby club” stuff is just an excuse really. People would overlook all this stuff if there was a winning team on display.

DARLO333 wrote:
As for the attendance, ultimately only winning games will increase interest and bring people back. All this “sight lines” and “the rugby club” stuff is just an excuse really. People would overlook all this stuff if there was a winning team on display.

Disagree. When we were challenging for the NLN play-offs, the season we came 5th, our attendances were below what we all expected. And that's even with the novelty factor of moving back.

Yes winning games helps, but thinking it's the magic bullet is naive.

As I said, the ground isn't the greatest matchday experience, and reputationally, the last 15 years has done a lot of damage outside the hardcore fanbase.

A few people saying that some of our players didn't seem fit enough. It did seem to me that we had a very light pre-season in terms of fixtures, I always thought we played more games than that. How any games did we play, excluding youth sides and allstars?

Today was very disappointing. We went to pot after letting Curzon Ashton go level. We clearly have work to do on our fitness levels and need to start operating as a team very quickly.

However it’s the first competitive game the lads have played together. I won’t be getting to upset and making and rash criticisms until we’ve seen the month out at least.

I thought barring the equaliser Maddison had a good game, even turning the clock back to pull the ball back (from what looked like behind the line) at one stage and the penalty save.

Ange scored a good goal with a run timed to perfection.

There were other positives around the field (We all know Wheatley & Trotman can do, Tez looked quite solid, Elliot and Nicholson clearly have potential. Styche another one we no is quality) but overall we need to really turn it up a few levels.

Onwards and upwards I say.

As for the attendance, ultimately only winning games will increase interest and bring people back. All this “sight lines” and “the rugby club” stuff is just an excuse really. People would overlook all this stuff if there was a winning team on display.

I don't agree with the last 4 lines it's a poor ground I don't care what people say sight line are shite the rugby club are UNWELCOMING the bar serving food is pish poor and I'm been kind there.. I will NOT comment anymore on the place as it boils my piss but it is what it is and I'm 100% behind the LADS read in to it as you want.. I will forever support DFC where ever they play doesn't mean I have to like it..

I don’t dispute that sight lines are poor and there is still issues with the rugby club ... but win games, create a feel good factor, get people excited and all of a sudden people will want to be at Blackwell Meadows. Even if they have to stand on tip toes and and bring sandwiches.

Just to add to our woes, the pies were burnt to a cinder and borderline inedible

Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Today was very disappointing. We went to pot after letting Curzon Ashton go level. We clearly have work to do on our fitness levels and need to start operating as a team very quickly.

However it’s the first competitive game the lads have played together. I won’t be getting to upset and making and rash criticisms until we’ve seen the month out at least.

I thought barring the equaliser Maddison had a good game, even turning the clock back to pull the ball back (from what looked like behind the line) at one stage and the penalty save.

Ange scored a good goal with a run timed to perfection.

There were other positives around the field (We all know Wheatley & Trotman can do, Tez looked quite solid, Elliot and Nicholson clearly have potential. Styche another one we no is quality) but overall we need to really turn it up a few levels.

Onwards and upwards I say.

As for the attendance, ultimately only winning games will increase interest and bring people back. All this “sight lines” and “the rugby club” stuff is just an excuse really. People would overlook all this stuff if there was a winning team on display.

I don't agree with the last 4 lines it's a poor ground I don't care what people say sight line are shite the rugby club are UNWELCOMING the bar serving food is pish poor and I'm been kind there.. I will NOT comment anymore on the place as it boils my piss but it is what it is and I'm 100% behind the LADS read in to it as you want.. I will forever support DFC where ever they play doesn't mean I have to like it..

Please don't take this the wrong way.
Today I had a choice , go and give the fat b****** in charge of "my club" some more money or got to your game today. I chose to give my small amount to you. It is my second visit to see you. The game itself was OK and think both teams were evenly matched.

BUT , for the 2nd time I have to say it did not feel like i was at a football match. It felt like watching a park game. How do you put with the scowling faces behind the bar in the "clubhouse"? By the end of the game my legs were shot from standing on a flat concrete surface. I also agree with one of your other posters , the toilets stunk!!

As someone who has invested in you , and still does , I wish you all the best but I do not think I will return to your current "ground".

Today was very disappointing. We went to pot after letting Curzon Ashton go level. We clearly have work to do on our fitness levels and need to start operating as a team very quickly.

However it’s the first competitive game the lads have played together. I won’t be getting to upset and making and rash criticisms until we’ve seen the month out at least.

I thought barring the equaliser Maddison had a good game, even turning the clock back to pull the ball back (from what looked like behind the line) at one stage and the penalty save.

Ange scored a good goal with a run timed to perfection.

There were other positives around the field (We all know Wheatley & Trotman can do, Tez looked quite solid, Elliot and Nicholson clearly have potential. Styche another one we no is quality) but overall we need to really turn it up a few levels.

Onwards and upwards I say.

As for the attendance, ultimately only winning games will increase interest and bring people back. All this “sight lines” and “the rugby club” stuff is just an excuse really. People would overlook all this stuff if there was a winning team on display.

Agree here, 500 more would easily be ok with site lines, possibly 150 empty seats and 350 in tin shed would still have a good view, and so easy to make that and rugby club bar an excuse, just dont use the bar, 500 extra people would make a massive difference to our finances.
More people were using the rugby club seats today, and clear plastic in dug outs as helped

DARLO333 wrote:I don’t dispute that sight lines are poor and there is still issues with the rugby club ... but win games, create a feel good factor, get people excited and all of a sudden people will want to be at Blackwell Meadows. Even if they have to stand on tip toes and and bring sandwiches.

No they wont though, the feel good factor didn't last when we moved back, people stopped coming despite us winning as it was an awful experience.

This is going to take years to overcome, we have several things to overcome

A s*** recent history of mismanagement that being fan owned is slowly recovering from.

Still not a great experience at the ground, though massively better than it was

Dropping as far as we did we lost support to the big local clubs, generally youngsters who have yet to build an affinity with their local club - which is a common problem for non league clubs.

Crowds will increase over time I feel, we are engaging more with the youngsters, and I think most of us can see at least progress on how much better the club is being run, so it's much easier to talk about Darlo as the topic is more about results rather than financial woes.

Today was very disappointing. We went to pot after letting Curzon Ashton go level. We clearly have work to do on our fitness levels and need to start operating as a team very quickly.

However it’s the first competitive game the lads have played together. I won’t be getting to upset and making and rash criticisms until we’ve seen the month out at least.

I thought barring the equaliser Maddison had a good game, even turning the clock back to pull the ball back (from what looked like behind the line) at one stage and the penalty save.

Ange scored a good goal with a run timed to perfection.

There were other positives around the field (We all know Wheatley & Trotman can do, Tez looked quite solid, Elliot and Nicholson clearly have potential. Styche another one we no is quality) but overall we need to really turn it up a few levels.

Onwards and upwards I say.

As for the attendance, ultimately only winning games will increase interest and bring people back. All this “sight lines” and “the rugby club” stuff is just an excuse really. People would overlook all this stuff if there was a winning team on display.

I don't agree with the last 4 lines it's a poor ground I don't care what people say sight line are shite the rugby club are UNWELCOMING the bar serving food is pish poor and I'm been kind there.. I will NOT comment anymore on the place as it boils my piss but it is what it is and I'm 100% behind the LADS read in to it as you want.. I will forever support DFC where ever they play doesn't mean I have to like it..

Please don't take this the wrong way.
Today I had a choice , go and give the fat b****** in charge of "my club" some more money or got to your game today. I chose to give my small amount to you. It is my second visit to see you. The game itself was OK and think both teams were evenly matched.

BUT , for the 2nd time I have to say it did not feel like i was at a football match. It felt like watching a park game. How do you put with the scowling faces behind the bar in the "clubhouse"? By the end of the game my legs were shot from standing on a flat concrete surface. I also agree with one of your other posters , the toilets stunk!!

As someone who has invested in you , and still does , I wish you all the best but I do not think I will return to your current "ground".

You could have had a better stance in the tin shed and stood against a barrier or got a seat in stand the people in the bar are just kids so please dont give them a personal hard time, we all know that the rugby club could and should do better though and no excuse for the toilets being like that

robsraiders wrote:
Agree here, 500 more would easily be ok with site lines, possibly 150 empty seats and 350 in tin shed would still have a good view, and so easy to make that and rugby club bar an excuse, just dont use the bar.

See this exactly the approach we need to avoid.

In a way I agree with you, I've never understood why needing to get to the bar during a game is so important to some people.

But for a lot of people, drinking is part of the matchday experience. They like being able to have a pint at the match. To say "don't go to the bar" misses the point. It's a service that people want providing.

DARLO333 wrote:I don’t dispute that sight lines are poor and there is still issues with the rugby club ... but win games, create a feel good factor, get people excited and all of a sudden people will want to be at Blackwell Meadows. Even if they have to stand on tip toes and and bring sandwiches.

See trevstanley's post for anecdotal evidence that what you're saying doesn't tally up.

Like it or not, what happens on the pitch is only part of it. We know that because our play-off push two seasons ago failed to attract the attendances.

We have to keep working to improve the matchday experience as well, for the casual supporter who isn't overly fussed what happens to Darlington FC on the pitch.

We were wide open down the left pretty much all game and they were a constant threat yet we did nothing about it.

Midfield was very poor , no crosses into the box for our 2 strikers and as has been said previously we played far too narrow.It was obvious that we should have brought Harvey and Henshall on at least 20 minutes earlier.

Hughes is painfully slow for this level and got caught out on 50/50 balls quite a few times.

Wheatley, Nicholson and Elliott are too similar and do not offer enough variation in their play.The service to Ainge and Styche was non existent as a result and Tommy should have started with Henshall IMO.

Trotman was our main threat going forward but he is a full back for gods sake and they were just picking us off on the counter attack when he was pushing up.

Enough said about there first goal but Maddison will be a quality signing for us without doubt.

We need Burn and Thommo back asap, O'Hanlon misses the game on Saturday and if Burn is still out it will be Tez to LB and probably Vaulks at CB.

Early days I suppose but a worrying performance none the less.Really hope Tommy has faith in his midfield signings so lets see how we go on Tuesday.

Agree it's a disappointing attendance today, but honestly, we all know the problems regarding the facilities.

A stand at the empty end, some proper toilets and our own bar (which i thought was in the plans when we moved) would all help some way, but it costs money that we don't have right now. It'll need to be a gradual process.

By the way, did the club ever announce what the decision was on the seats at Bishop? I assume they decided it wasn't viable, but i'm not sure they ever actually made a statement following the consultation?

As for the game, unfortunately I couldn't listen in today, and live away from the area. We're very lucky to have such fantastic youtube highlights so exiles can follow from afar.

H1987 wrote:Agree it's a disappointing attendance today, but honestly, we all know the problems regarding the facilities.

A stand at the empty end, some proper toilets and our own bar (which i thought was in the plans when we moved) would all help some way, but it costs money that we don't have right now. It'll need to be a gradual process.

By the way, did the club ever announce what the decision was on the seats at Bishop? I assume they decided it wasn't viable, but i'm not sure they ever actually made a statement following the consultation?

As for the game, unfortunately I couldn't listen in today, and live away from the area. We're very lucky to have such fantastic youtube highlights so exiles can follow from afar.

Its all about what we can afford, we decided we are a fans owned club so any improvements we have to fund our selves, The movement of the stands I am certain was announced, fans vote said no to the additional cost

Defeat today has also knocked the feel good factor that had been building during pre-season. I hope TW achieves but by the end of August and judging from today's performance we/he could well be under pressure. If the worst was to happen we could be in even more of a predicament than we were when MG walked out, with the vast majority of players Midlands based and only attracted up due to TW.

I'm not deliberately doom and glooming but it's a niggling doubt in the back of my mind if things don't pick up.

"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!"

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, the entire ground is a chicken and egg situation. It’ll take time to improve the ground, and will need to be funded by increased attendances, but we probably need to improve the ground to increase attendances.

I’m afraid I don’t have the answers, but then I don’t entirely hate the ground as much as some do either. The feedback from the Newcastle fan up above probably does nail it though. It’s all a bit exposed and open. I’m there whenever I’m back in the town, which isn’t as often as I’d like, but ultimately I’d watch us in a damn field. That said, I am capable of being objective about it, and it’s the floating fans in the area that need convincing. Largely, our wandering Newcastle fan aside, they probably don’t post on here.

AndyPark wrote:Lost one game and everyone has went into meltdown; I’ve missed the football season.

Can’t wait to get dicked by Spennymoor on Tuesday to see the reactions.

Well said. So far a lot of what I have read on this thread could have been cut and pasted from the Salford board this time last year. The loss does not have to mean that things are going pear-shaped. As was observed during the pre-season, a lot of new faces means a lot of new relationships that need to be established. Ainge's knock downs have to be better read by those around him and this will take time. You have to know your forwards better when timing through balls. Covering in midfield and at the back can work better when everyone knows their place. Give it time and then call it if it is still wrong in another month. As was shown last year we can still save our season even if we only find our form in the last 20 games. But the first 25 minutes shows that we can play and are not the completely lost cause some comments would have the stay-away fans believe. Whilst not advocating a censorship of the bad points of the game it must also be recognised that such extreme negativity as has been expressed above will probably have more impact on future gates than whether or not buying a pint comes with a cheery smile or not.

And as postscript to the above. If we'd had a couple of better ref decisions and if Elliott's two bar efforts had been a couple of inches lower I suspect we'd have a completely different view of our chances this season.

en passant wrote:And as postscript to the above. If we'd had a couple of better ref decisions and if Elliott's two bar efforts had been a couple of inches lower I suspect we'd have a completely different view of our chances this season.

Finally someone points out the detrimental effect the referree's decisions had. At times, they were a complete joke like the clash of heads in their penalty area which resulted in a contested dropped ball restart at least 20 yards away from the box.

Spennymoor will be licking their lips in anticipation, but it is a great early chance for us to kick-start our season, so let us get up there and behind the lads.

en passant wrote:If we'd had a couple of better ref decisions and if Elliott's two bar efforts had been a couple of inches lower I suspect we'd have a completely different view of our chances this season.

But we didn't and they weren't.

Last edited by Darlogramps on Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

It's not meltdown to say we were OK for a quarter of the game but were outplayed a lot of the time, looked badly exposed at the back and had a shape and midfield that looked disjointed and weak. That's just the way it was. We may well improve from that but overall it was a poor performance against a side that is unlikely to be among the pace-setters in this league. Don't see anything knee-jerk or panicky about stating some of the things that were clear to see.

en passant wrote:And as postscript to the above. If we'd had a couple of better ref decisions and if Elliott's two bar efforts had been a couple of inches lower I suspect we'd have a completely different view of our chances this season.

Finally someone points out the detrimental effect the referree's decisions had. At times, they were a complete joke like the clash of heads in their penalty area which resulted in a contested dropped ball restart at least 20 yards away from the box.

Spennymoor will be licking their lips in anticipation, but it is a great early chance for us to kick-start our season, so let us get up there and behind the lads.

The drop ball is from where he stopped play not where the clash of heads was, now tbh I'm not sure where that was but all around me were shouting for it to be in the area, and that's not right.