#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-02-05

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[00:48:23]<Gast468> Hello, I'm new to LinuxCNC and am trying to integrate LinuxCNC on a couple unique systems. Can I recieve technical help on this forum?
[00:48:41]<pfred1> Gast468 not unless you ask specific quesitons
[00:48:44]<jdhNC> ask and ye might receive.
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[00:49:10]<Jymmmm> Gast468: Go ahead and ask, if someone can help they will. Though many aren't here right now it seems.
[00:49:32]<pfred1> Gast468 also there is a forum at the website where more detailed help may be available
[00:49:52]<Jymmmm> ok, NOW everyone comes out of the metalwork.
[00:50:23]<jarray52> Gast468: I'm interested in hearing responses to your questions. Ask away.
[00:50:38]<pfred1> I think we terrified them
[00:50:48]<Gast468> Thanks, I will try to do my best at being specific as possible. First, I want to use LinuxCNC on a new Coordinate Measuring Machine(CMM) the CMM contact sensor requires a usb interface. Does anyone know of USB periphreals being supported by LinuxCNC?
[00:50:52]<Jymmmm> pfred1: Not WE, jdhNC.
[00:51:56]<jdhNC> geez :)
[00:52:11]<Jymmmm> jdhNC: Hey, if the dunce cap fits...
[00:52:24]<jdhNC> but, it looks so good on you!
[00:52:41]<pfred1> Gast468 EMC being a real time control system doesn't really do USB or rather USB doesn't do real time
[00:52:45]* Tom_itx sticks a road construction cone on Jymmmm's head[00:52:56]<jdhNC> you don't need RT for a CMM
[00:52:57]<Jymmmm> Tom_itx: Only if I'm drunk
[00:53:07]<pfred1> jdhNC but this is EMC
[00:54:19]<pfred1> the USB question does come up a lot though
[00:54:23]<Gast468> hmmm, to specific?
[00:54:23]<Gast468> to vague?
[00:54:23]<Gast468> Is this chat primarily used by LinuxCNC developers or users? Are most of the users developers?
[00:54:28]<Jymmmm> Gast468: does this sensor require drivers, or is it a generic serial device?
[00:57:23]<pfred1> Gast468 this channel is open to anyone interested in Linuxcnc some users some developers some just wandering by
[00:57:51]<Jymmmm> that later being jdhNC and his fancy dunce cap.
[00:58:09]* jdhNC waves.[00:58:09]<Gast468> Yes, I am aware of how USB is not real time, However, the USB support that I require does not need to be in real time. However, the machine control of the CMM -- which is identical to a vertical 3 axis mill -- does require real time machine control. The sensor does require drivers it came with a couple .dll libraries that I want to integrate into LinuxCNC.
[00:58:24]<jarray52> Will machines such as www.ebay.com/itm/250986650037 , this www.ebay.com/itm/17-7-X-12-2-Y-Bridgeport-Discovery-308-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-DX-32-Contro-/400273055720 , or this http://www.ebay.com/itm/300561664775 work with Linux CNC?
[00:59:20]<Jymmmm> Gast468: You don't have source code? Or linux based drivers? You sure it's not just a FTDI usb-to-ttl chipset in it?
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[00:59:38]<jdhNC> sounds nifty. How does the probe know where it is? Relative to the current x/y/z?
[00:59:53]<pfred1> jdhNC why would it care?
[01:00:08]<Jymmmm> jdhNC: (It takes off it's dunce cap and looks around. DUH)
[01:00:43]<pfred1> I'd think all the probe would be would be an output device
[01:01:04]<jdhNC> dunno, I've only used one and the probe was on an articulated arm
[01:01:24]<pfred1> but wouldn't the arm keep track of location?
[01:01:43]<Gast468> thanks pfredl!
[01:02:39]<jdhNC> perhaps. The one we had would move the arm base.
[01:04:48]<pfred1> Gast468 touch off probes are common to use with EMC
[01:05:13]<pfred1> not sure if that informaiton helps you any but I just figured I'd throw it out here
[01:06:40]<Jymmmm> Heh, I'd cut off the usb part, and just use the analog part =)
[01:06:56]<jarray52> Has anyone managed to get a machining center to work with Linux CNC?
[01:07:22]<jdhNC> the one we had ran a DOS app... it was old but the probe was pretty nifty.
[01:07:44]<Gast468> No, I do not have the source code for the contact sensor. It's good to know that touch off probes are common with EMC. specifically the one I am using is a proprietary high resolution sensor that in order for it to begin taking readings. I can use analog! does emc support analog signals?
[01:07:55]<jdhNC> jarray52: there are people running VMC's with LinuxCNC
[01:08:10]<Gast468> **In order for it to begin taking readins it must recieve a command over USB
[01:08:34]<jarray52> jdhNC: VMC=Vertical Milling Center or VMC=Vertical Machining Center?
[01:08:48]<Jymmmm> Gast468: Do you have the make/model of this probe?
[01:09:10]<Gast468> wwwkeyence
[01:09:53]<Jymmmm> and model# ?
[01:09:56]<pfred1> if you can convice HAL that your probe is a keyboard, mouse, or joystick it should work just fine :)
[01:10:51]<jdhNC> milling, I don't know about machining centers.
[01:11:17]* pfred1 doesn't know what a machining center is[01:11:29]<jdhNC> a mill with more stuff
[01:11:43]<Jymmmm> pfred1: a mill in a box
[01:11:46]<jdhNC> how about this: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/jr.jpg[01:11:47]<pfred1> I've seen some mills with quite a bit of "stuff" attached to them
[01:11:49]<Gast468> The sensor can be seen here: http://www.keyence.com/products/measure/laser/lkg5000/lkg5000.php I misspoke early when I said contact sensor techinically it is non contact but the principle is the same
[01:12:37]<pfred1> jdhNC that looks like just a mill to me
[01:13:02]<Jymmmm> Ah hell, you have to login to get the manual. such a pita !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[01:13:20]<jdhNC> I have a login if you really want it.
[01:13:28]<jarray52> jdhNC: Does that run on Linux CNC? Does that have an ATC?
[01:13:31]<Jymmmm> jdhNC: Nope, but thanks
[01:13:54]<pfred1> it being cradek's I can't imagine it runs anything but
[01:13:57]<jdhNC> you would have to ask cradek what all it does, but it seems to have an ATC (on left)
[01:14:00]<pfred1> didn't cradek write Axis?
[01:14:15]<jdhNC> I think there is a youtube video of it changing tools among other things
[01:14:17]<Jymmmm> cradek: and jeplerwrote ZXIS iirc
[01:14:22]<Jymmmm> AXIS even =)
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[01:15:22]* Jymmmm got two empty 20# propane tanks for $20 =)[01:15:47]<jarray52> jdhNC: I noticed the ATC on the left. That is a lot of tools. Just wondering if that was automatic or manual.
[01:15:50]<pfred1> Jymmmm it is going to be hot soon
[01:15:59]<jarray52> jdhNC: What hardware controls the ATC?
[01:16:22]<jdhNC> you would have to ask cradek.
[01:16:43]<jarray52> pfred1: Machining center= Mill in a box with an automatic tool changer and automatic coolant sprayer.
[01:16:46]<Jymmmm> pfred1: It's all good, guess I could use them for BBQ, thogugh I use charcoal. I do have a hose to connect to any device that owuld normally use a 1# tank though
[01:17:03]<pfred1> jarray52 EMC can handle any and all of that
[01:17:42]<Gast468> so does anyone know if EMC has USB support or has had USB periphreals added?
[01:17:47]<jarray52> pfred1: To get these to work, one just has to rip out the old electronics and replace with supported electronics?
[01:18:17]<pfred1> Gast468 Linux can handle USB and EMC runs on Linux
[01:18:46]<pfred1> so if you've a USB mouse or keyboard and are running EMC you are using USB with EMC
[01:18:50]<Jymmmm> pfred1: I'm not sure about USB SENSORS though, it requires a driver and a login to access any damn info about it.
[01:19:18]<pfred1> and HAL is taking inputs from it too
[01:19:22]<Jymmmm> pfred1: But THOSE USB devices are handled by the OS, not EMC directly.
[01:19:41]<pfred1> Jymmmm you can feed HAL the events
[01:19:59]<Jymmmm> Gast468: If you have a linux driver for it, then you should be able to, but I doubt for RealTime.
[01:20:30]<pfred1> Jymmmm there is real, then there is real enough :)
[01:20:54]* Jymmmm smacks pfred1 with a clue-by-four... you know what I mean![01:21:45]<pfred1> it is a sensor i suppose it dependso n how they plan on using it but so far I don't see any reason it wouldn't work
[01:22:21]<Jymmmm> *IF* they have linux driver for it.
[01:22:59]<Gast468> understood, thanks for the help. Yes I do not need the sensor to be in real time. All i need is real enough as pfred1 puts it. I may have to play with the source code for EMC some more. What my end goal is to be able to make a custom G-code command that I can have EMC execute and that would trigger the sensor to start. (again realtime for the sensor isnt necessary, just real enough time)
[01:23:08]<pfred1> thing would probably show up as a mouse or something probably what it is if you took it apart :)
[01:23:34]<Jymmmm> pfred1: It's an OPTICAL non-contact sensor.
[01:23:48]<pfred1> what do you think optical mice are?
[01:23:52]<Gast468> unfortunately I can't take anything apart as it is very expensive.
[01:23:59]<Jymmmm> pfred1: He needs to send a command to it for it to beign measuring
[01:24:12]<Jymmmm> begin
[01:24:19]<pfred1> optical mice take a photograph of the surface they are on and compare it to a previous image they've taken
[01:24:22]<Gast468> yes that is exactly what I am looking for
[01:24:43]<Jymmmm> pfred1: But mice dont require a command to be sent to them.
[01:25:07]<Gast468> not the optical mouse part but the part of sending a command to the sensor so it starts measuring
[01:25:13]<pfred1> Jymmmm your mouse has moved. Please reboot Windows for the changes to take effect!
[01:25:53]* Jymmmm grabs a BIGGER clue-by-four to smack pfred1 with![01:26:04]<ENG> hello everyone I am tryng to setup a mill with EMC. I am confused as to what exactly i need to do to configure a new machine from scratch. Where do I start? I have EMC and its manuals but I dont know how I make an EMC machine custom for my application.
[01:26:10]<pfred1> if it was me I'd plug it in and see what happens
[01:26:33]<Jymmmm> pfred1: His sensor is BI-DIRECTIONAL communication, a mouse is one-way.
[01:26:52]<jdhNC> I have 30+ keyence laser sensors at work, none use USB though... they generally do serial and analog output
[01:26:55]<pfred1> on its bi well excuse me!
[01:27:22]<Jymmmm> Gast468: Can you exchange it for analog/serial instead of USB?
[01:27:23]<pfred1> Jymmmm it could just be a phase it is going through while it is discovering itself
[01:27:59]<Jymmmm> pfred1: You asshole! PHUK YOU AND THE MOUSE YOU RODE IN ON! LOL
[01:28:12]<Gast468> jdhNC specifically the controller for the sensor I have is capable of analog output but I need to send a commmand for it to start taking measurements and the only way to do so is over RS-232 or USB
[01:28:29]<Jymmmm> Gast468: 232 works!!!
[01:28:31]<pfred1> cat /dev/usb
[01:28:35]<jdhNC> serial is pretty trivial
[01:28:48]<Gast468> WOOOO thank you JYMMM!
[01:28:50]<Jymmmm> Gast468: Serial, no problem for emc
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[01:29:12]<pfred1> you'd still need to intrepret the data stream
[01:29:26]<Jymmmm> Gast468: you could probably do RT using serial too, if needed.
[01:30:10]* Jymmmm gives pfred1 a wedgy just because![01:30:10]<Gast468> I think I can handle the data steam part on a seperate custom program. Can anyone point me in the right direction of adding serial communication to emc?
[01:30:22]<pfred1> Gast468 on the plus side EMC comes with a double your money back guarantee that it'll work for you
[01:30:44]<pfred1> of course the initial purchase price is $0
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[01:31:29]<pfred1> can you run EMC live off a USB key?
[01:32:07]<Gast468> yes you can use a USB keyboard I am now.
[01:32:26]<pfred1> Gast468 some Linux distributions will run just in memory
[01:32:48]<pfred1> as in you do not have to install it or write to your hard drive at all
[01:32:49]<Jymmmm> Gast468: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ModIO[01:33:17]<pfred1> EMC isn't a Linux distro per se but linuxcnc sort of is
[01:33:38]<pfred1> and there is a CD image of it that is basically drop it in and go
[01:33:41]<Jymmmm> Gast468: Just FYI... "Many PCs have a common, easy-to-program chip for RS232 serial interfaces, the 16550 FIFO. However, the top speed is 115200baud. In 200us, only 16 usable bits can be transmitted in each direction (10 bit times per character, 2 characters = 173uS), which is not enough to send DAC commands and retrieve position feedback for multiple axes. " http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Emc2HardwareDesign#RS232_Serial[01:33:43] -!- cmorley has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[01:34:06]<Jymmmm> Gast468: that last part being RT stuff.
[01:34:12]<pfred1> Jymmmm FYI the 16550 has been emulated for about 20 years now in other hardware
[01:34:40]<Jymmmm> UART BABY! Screw Emu!
[01:34:48]<pfred1> it is built into your north or south bridge or whatever mobo IC set you have
[01:35:47]<Jymmmm> Well, that's not really emulation (like AVRs with USB emulation), that's just built-in.
[01:36:07]<pfred1> I doubt they recreated it transistor for transistor
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[01:36:35]<pfred1> though someone may have at some point
[01:36:36]<Jymmmm> pfred1: Well when you get an electron microscope, PROVE ME WRONG!!!
[01:36:50]<Jymmmm> or PROVE ME RIGHT, I dont care =)
[01:37:06]<pfred1> there is a guy in Japan wthat makes an IC that is an entire 386 PC on a chip
[01:37:26]<Jymmmm> Heh, that's nothng
[01:37:40]<pfred1> would be something if you could go back in time with it
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[01:39:09]<Jymmmm> pfred1: http://www.logicpd.com/products/system-on-modules/dm3730-torpedo-wireless-som/[01:39:13]<jdhNC> all the keyence sensors I've used let you set parameters via serial, but once it was configured as needed, it would spit out analog on powerup. There is a mode to have query distance a single time, or to have it spew it out constantly.
[01:39:23]<pfred1> Jymmmm the point i was trying to make eariler is the hardware that passes for a 16650 today won't always exactly mirror all the limitations of the original hardware
[01:39:26]<Jymmmm> pfred1: And you can install OFF-THE-SHELF ubuntu on it too
[01:40:04]<pfred1> in some cases it'd be more difficult to do so
[01:40:05]<Jymmmm> jdhNC: Cool, send me a couple =)
[01:40:19]<jdhNC> they are not cheap!
[01:40:30]<pfred1> jdhNC everyone loves money
[01:40:38]<Jymmmm> jdhNC: no problem, just bill the makreting dept =)
[01:40:47]<pfred1> they might in fact be cheap but they're not inexpensive
[01:40:57]<jdhNC> and when they break, we have to throw them away since they get contaminated and can't leave the area.
[01:41:20]<Jymmmm> jdhNC: contaminated with???
[01:41:28]<jdhNC> uranium
[01:41:29]<pfred1> Jymmmm kooties
[01:41:46]<Jymmmm> pfred1: NO KOOTY SHOT FOR YOU!
[01:42:05]<Jymmmm> jdhNC: GITD?
[01:42:20]<jdhNC> XCB2?
[01:42:37]<Jymmmm> jdhNC: Glow-In-the-Dark?
[01:43:06]<jdhNC> heh.. nope, if anything ever starts glowing you'll read about it.
[01:43:08]<pfred1> until the Gulf wars i had no idea there was so much depleted uraninum around
[01:43:27]<Jymmmm> jdhNC: Actual uranium, or like Cesium 137?
[01:43:52]<pfred1> we used something like 23 tons of the stuff in the first conflict
[01:44:12]<pfred1> that has to be a lotta bullets
[01:44:31]<jdhNC> uranium, we use cesium for sources to measure stuff though
[01:44:57]<Jymmmm> jdhNC: Yeah? got any 20y half life chucks?
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[01:45:03]<Jymmmm> chunks
[01:45:45]<jdhNC> cesium is more like 30 years
[01:46:02]<pfred1> go right ahead and hide behind that solid 8 inch thick concrete wall we'll shoot you anyways!
[01:46:06]<Jymmmm> jdhNC: For this http://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/hardware3.html[01:47:25]<jdhNC> that's not a chunk, it is minicule
[01:47:40]<Jymmmm> jdhNC: Ok, got even spare?
[01:47:42]<jdhNC> get some thoriated TIG electrodes
[01:47:43]<Jymmmm> any
[01:47:58]<pfred1> I have some of those
[01:48:23]<pfred1> 2%
[01:48:42]<Jymmmm> $20! Forget it =)
[01:49:16]<pfred1> I bought a whole box i forget what I paid for them they weren't cheap though
[01:49:53]<Jymmmm> pfred1: Full system on module WITH 802.11 wifi http://www.logicpd.com/assets/products/DM3730_Tor_Wireless_wDime.jpg[01:51:15]<pfred1> I want one of these but so far they've proved to be vaporware http://www.raspberrypi.org/[01:52:46]<pfred1> I think if they ever come out they won't hit their target price
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[02:35:38]<clytle374> This Ubuntu kernel install is UGLY. where does Ubuntu keep the update files?
[02:35:48]<clytle374> You know... For after I break it.
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[02:50:53]<clytle374> I never thought how long it would take to turn all the device options off if they were all on by default
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[02:57:28]<pfred1> clytle374 you mean config in /boot?
[02:59:14]<clytle374> Yes, as far as everything being turned on.
[02:59:40]<pfred1> clytle374 be smart and install the kernel the debian way that way it goes in and comes out easily
[02:59:48]<pfred1> as in package it up
[03:00:07]<clytle374> the ugly is all the debian/rules commands that I have no idea what they do
[03:00:28]<clytle374> the kernel should only go one place... as in 1 file?
[03:00:32]<pfred1> I'll get you the commands that do it it is only like 2 or 3 makes changing the kernel easier
[03:00:44]<pfred1> let me access my notes files sec
[03:01:44]<pfred1> clytle374 OK fakeroot make-kpkg clean
[03:01:53]<pfred1> then configure it
[03:01:53]<clytle374> are you saying that it won't jsut make a bzimage, initrd, and modules in the correct directory?
[03:02:33]<pfred1> yeah that sucks do it the debian way it pays off and is actually easier
[03:03:01]<pfred1> that wya if yo uwant to ditch it it is just oen command
[03:03:17]<pfred1> clytle374 how many cores is your CPU?
[03:03:46]<clytle374> 2
[03:04:00]<pfred1> I've built a bunch of kernels the old way and the debian way and I much prefer the debian method
[03:04:08]<pfred1> OK then export CONCURRENCY_LEVEL=2
[03:04:15]<pfred1> makes your kernel compile twice as fast ;)
[03:04:42]<clytle374> because that's easier than make -j2 or -j3?
[03:04:43]<pfred1> then you're going to have to edit this command but this is an example time fakeroot make-kpkg --initrd --revision=3:giga.1.1 kernel_image
[03:05:02]<pfred1> you're not going to do a make command
[03:05:07]<pfred1> that last one was it
[03:05:23]<pfred1> then just install the deb packages it makes
[03:05:34]<clytle374> I see no reason to use an initrd on a custom kernel
[03:05:56]<pfred1> some stuff doesn't work monolithic in the kernel but suit yourself
[03:06:29]<pfred1> like some software expects some drivers to be modules so they can load and unload them
[03:07:06]<clytle374> I'm not talking about buidling everything in, but all you use in initrd is the stuff to boot
[03:07:21]<pfred1> whatever it works and works well
[03:07:53]<clytle374> but, I've never had something choke built in, and not one computer here has a module in it
[03:07:59]<pfred1> that is it for the debian way except for running dpkg -i on the packages it makes
[03:08:06]<pfred1> it'll do everything else for you
[03:08:35]X704 is now known as WalterN[03:08:39]<pfred1> makes it a lot easier for me to make changes and keep track of everything
[03:09:00]<pfred1> because you can uninstall them or make miner version revisions etc
[03:09:06]<pfred1> minor even
[03:09:28]<pfred1> you don't have to stomp on your known good kernel either
[03:09:39]<clytle374> ?
[03:09:45]<pfred1> overwrite it
[03:09:55]<clytle374> why would I ever do that?
[03:10:07]<pfred1> no matter what happens you'll have a usable system suit yourself do it the dumb old way see what i care
[03:10:47]<clytle374> I just don't understand what you are saying. I don't need to ever over write a kernel to install a new one
[03:10:50]* pfred1 ain't going back[03:11:50]<clytle374> I'm glad you like it... But all you might need in initrd is 3 modules.. No more
[03:12:17]<clytle374> drive interface, files system, ?
[03:13:27]<clytle374> make modules_install handles the versioning
[03:14:02]<clytle374> and one or two other files? Not sure what the package manager does.. Unless you are distributing it
[03:14:07]<pfred1> when you install the deb packages it runs grub installs the modules everything
[03:15:17]<pfred1> but you're dead set against it so do it the old fashioned way
[03:16:35]<pfred1> also if you package it then updating the system dpkg honors your kernel
[03:16:54]<pfred1> like if it is a newer version it stays on top etc.
[03:17:34]<pfred1> was just a suggestion forget I mentioned it
[03:18:04]<clytle374> not trying to be rude... But the how to makes it look really ugly
[03:18:56]<pfred1> I find it a lot simpler and more straightforward than the manual method
[03:19:10]<clytle374> I guess the gentoo build system might seem the same to an outsider. But it leaves the kernel alone and only manages the kernel sources
[03:19:44]<pfred1> I've been running Linux since 1995 but never have run Gentoo yet
[03:20:47]<pfred1> if i can help it I'd rather not compile source code packages today but sometimes it is unavoidable
[03:20:53]<clytle374> I build and install a kernel in one line. make -jX ; make modules_install ; cp arch/x86/boot/bzImage /boot/kernel-new ; reboot
[03:20:58]* pfred1 got tired of that years ago[03:21:24]<pfred1> OK how do you delete it?
[03:21:41]<clytle374> rm /boot/kernel-old
[03:22:02]<clytle374> mv /boot/kernel-new /boot/kernel-old
[03:22:54]<clytle374> no initrd image
[03:24:13]<clytle374> other than that the emerge system handles all the building
[03:24:23]<pfred1> what emerge system?
[03:24:36]<clytle374> it's called emerge
[03:24:56]<clytle374> works with portage that handles the dependences
[03:25:07]<pfred1> $ which emerge returned an empty string for me
[03:25:32]<clytle374> like I do emerge firefox
[03:25:48]<clytle374> it builds firefox and anything needed for it.. all from source
[03:25:51]<pfred1> bash: emerge: command not found
[03:26:07]<clytle374> I thought you never use gentoo?
[03:26:16]<pfred1> you thought right
[03:26:28]<clytle374> then you don't have emerge
[03:26:44]<pfred1> clytle374 I thought you said you were on Ubuntu
[03:27:01]<clytle374> I am, that's why I'm hating life right now ;)
[03:27:11]<pfred1> that is why I run EMC on Debian
[03:27:30]<pfred1> you could run it on gentoo I'd imagine
[03:27:59]<clytle374> didn't happen.. I'm trying precise to try and narrow the problem down
[03:28:17]<pfred1> I compiled it all from source
[03:28:25]<clytle374> It builds and passes the test.. But the watchdog keeps biting.
[03:29:00]<clytle374> latency test was great.. rtai passed all its tests. lpt configs ran
[03:29:04]<clytle374> but hm2 died
[03:29:10]<pfred1> only problem I had was with my GL libraries and that is just because i ue a really old PC to run it on
[03:29:33]<pfred1> so I just tkems and it flies
[03:29:38]<pfred1> tkemc even
[03:29:55]<pfred1> when I get a new PC I'll try Axis again
[03:30:54]<clytle374> emc and rtai seem to be very easy builds, just never figured out what was going wrong.
[03:31:07]<clytle374> not sure if it was the kernel or rtai or emc
[03:31:23]<pfred1> I used the kernel version RTAI said to patch against
[03:31:37]<clytle374> which one?
[03:31:41]<pfred1> 2.6.30 or something
[03:32:00]<clytle374> I couldn't build that far back. headers I think
[03:32:17]<clytle374> I tried downgrading glibc... that was the end
[03:32:23]<pfred1> that was actually newer than the kernels offered for the version I installed on
[03:32:39]<pfred1> heh yeah messing with glibc can be a bit tricky
[03:32:57]<clytle374> you can't get around it on gentoo... no way
[03:33:03]<pfred1> once i got a libc5 based system to parallel run glibc2
[03:33:23]<pfred1> let's just say the third time wasn't exactly a charm doing that though
[03:33:40]<pfred1> more like the 33rd try
[03:33:47]<clytle374> gentoo had those days... the switch was ugly
[03:34:03]<pfred1> gentoo wasn't even around before all distros switched to glibc2
[03:34:09]<pfred1> that was like in 1997
[03:34:42]<pfred1> I think I did it on slackware 3.4
[03:35:05]* pfred1 wanted to see KDE 0.14[03:35:32]<pfred1> and there was no way I was gonna run that Redhat stuff!
[03:35:41]<clytle374> um, that wasn't what I was thinking of.. it was the threads change
[03:36:25]<pfred1> then RH 7.1 came out and I ran Redhat ;)
[03:36:45]<clytle374> I started on 6.1
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[03:37:05]<pfred1> Rh 7.3 was probably the best Linux distro of all time
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[03:37:25]<jdhNC> I have a box full of SLS floppies
[03:37:25]<pfred1> back then everyone and their dog ran RH
[03:37:48]<pfred1> jdhNC SLS was before my time
[03:38:08]<clytle374> never heard of it
[03:38:25]<pfred1> was what slack is based on
[03:38:52]<pfred1> then there is ydgryssil (sp)
[03:38:58]<jdhNC> snackware came after SLS
[03:38:59]<pfred1> or I should say was
[03:39:20]<jdhNC> I think I have SW floppies too.
[03:39:28]<pfred1> yeah SLS quit being developed so pat forked it
[03:39:42]<jdhNC> I spent days downloading SLS off a BBS
[03:39:57]<pfred1> early on I bought walnut creek CDs
[03:40:17]<pfred1> I think slack 3.4 was the first Linux distro I ever downloaded
[03:40:24]<pfred1> it only took me 3 days
[03:40:32]<pfred1> all 128 MB of it
[03:40:49]<pfred1> took me a day to figure out ftp -i
[03:40:53]<clytle374> that's worse than my internet ;)
[03:41:07]<pfred1> hey I was getting 48 kb/s
[03:41:12]<pfred1> on my modem
[03:42:04]<pfred1> until I figured out ftp -i I had to sit there and pick each file and I'd forget some and my connection would time out etc
[03:42:28]<pfred1> once I figured out the non interactive switch things moved right along for me
[03:43:12]<pfred1> but that was a thrill to run an OS I totally downloaded off the net today no one even thinks anything of it
[03:43:39]<jdhNC> I thought it was pretty damned cool to be able to run X
[03:43:44]<pfred1> just fire up unetbootin and in a few minutes bingo
[03:44:22]<pfred1> jdhNC I was a Windows refugee but I thought it was pretty damned cool not to crash
[03:45:33]<pfred1> though when I ran a permedia card i got hit with the X Window bug it had for a bit and i had to patch X and rebuild it
[03:45:47]<pfred1> that only took my machine 4 hours to do
[03:46:14]<pfred1> someone forgot to put an 0x in front of a hex number in the code
[03:46:40]<pfred1> it made your system clock whack out when you ran X
[03:47:27]<pfred1> I think i was running an MMX 200 CPU then
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[03:49:06]<pfred1> I kind of get why Linux never caught on but I still don't see how people put up with closed source OSes
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[03:49:33]<clytle374> One reason... I come with the computer
[03:49:41]<clytle374> it comes
[03:49:51]<pfred1> yeah I got Windows for "free" wit hthe machine
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[03:50:11]<pfred1> today that "free" copy of Windows is no small part of the total purchase price
[03:50:28]<pfred1> easy 25%
[03:51:10]<pfred1> Linux has come a long way though as far as installing it goes you can literally drop a CD in and go now
[03:51:56]<pfred1> I don't know how much easier it can be made
[03:52:08]<jdhNC> pre-installed
[03:52:24]<pfred1> jdhNC I was thinking we might have to go door to door or something
[03:52:44]<pfred1> here let me hit the eject button on yoru drive for you ...
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[03:53:18]<jdhNC> cool... can you wire up my steppers and limit switches too?
[03:54:46]<pfred1> today I look at it like the less people who run Linux the faster the mirror is that I use
[03:55:52]<pfred1> Windows users should thank Linux too because I believe that the only reason Microsoft cleaned up their act is because of the pressure Linux put on it to be more stable
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[03:59:00]<clytle374> yep, kernel build taking forever
[03:59:56]<pfred1> if I pare it down some my i3 builds a kernel in about 15 minutes
[04:00:22]<clytle374> 1st build?
[04:00:28]<pfred1> clean
[04:00:59]<clytle374> should have spent more time removing stuff. plus 2 core atom
[04:01:15]<clytle374> I should be asleep, but in too much pain to sleep
[04:01:19]<pfred1> yeah it can take some time to fully configure a kernel
[04:01:48]<clytle374> everything on by default sucks
[04:01:49]<pfred1> there are almost 1600 options in the last one i looked at
[04:02:00]<pfred1> 1579 if memory serves me
[04:02:25]<pfred1> make allnoconfig strips everything out
[04:02:34]<clytle374> so where does deb put the kernel headers by default?
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[04:03:15]<pfred1> there is another make command that builds everything too
[04:03:43]<clytle374> yeah, but where do they go at install?
[04:03:53]<pfred1> I'm not even sure if a makeallnoconfig would even boot though
[04:04:17]<clytle374> surely not
[04:04:36]<clytle374> I know what needs to be on to boot my machines
[04:07:44]<clytle374> So are the headers gnu headers or are they the ones needed to build modules?
[04:08:25]<pfred1> I sort of remember something about kernel headers but I forget exactly what right now
[04:08:36]<pfred1> something like kernel headers are separate from system headers
[04:08:50]<clytle374> I've wondered if the headers weren't the problem in gentoo.
[04:09:08]<pfred1> yeah kernel needs to build against it's own headers not system headers
[04:09:29]<pfred1> because kernel headers are in flux and system headers are supposed to be of a more static nature
[04:09:31]<clytle374> gentoo switched over to putting them in /usr/include/linux then the headers are in the source for modules
[04:10:25]<pfred1> I forget exactly how it all works the kernel headers may in fact be a separate package though
[04:10:46]<pfred1> I'm not on a box where I've ubilt a kernel so I'm not sure
[04:10:53]<pfred1> this one runs a canned kernel
[04:10:59]<clytle374> I know the Linus way in Linux-headers in /usr/include
[04:11:46]<pfred1> it really wasn't until I started running EMC that I built kernels for a long time it just got too confusing all the options
[04:12:33]<clytle374> one out of 5-6 throws a change that takes a few minutes to sort out
[04:12:39]<pfred1> well that and I did run one distro for 8 years straight that sort of got me out of monkeying around so much
[04:13:25]<pfred1> if that motherboard didn't burn out I'd probably still be running it so godo thing it died on me
[04:13:36]<clytle374> I've ran gentoo for about 8 years. switched to Ubuntu of a year.. Then 2 years ago started with emc
[04:13:51]<pfred1> the same version?
[04:13:54]<clytle374> And not having a toolchain made me switch back
[04:13:57]<pfred1> I mean I set it up and just ran it
[04:14:05]<clytle374> gentoo doesn't have versions
[04:14:18]<pfred1> heck for a while i wasn't even online wiht it
[04:14:40]<pfred1> what I'm saying is after a few years I didn't even update it
[04:15:17]<pfred1> thing ran until half the caps on the motherboard let go
[04:15:35]<pfred1> then I popped that HDD out stuck it into another box i made and it stil lran
[04:15:46]<clytle374> yeah, until hardware fails
[04:15:56]<pfred1> just didn't run very good and by then I couldn't update it
[04:16:25]<pfred1> I was kind of mad at suse not offering a very good upgrade path
[04:16:59]<pfred1> but I guess after 8 years you kind of have to expect to be sort of left out in the cold a bit
[04:17:13]<clytle374> 2 years will break most any upgrade path
[04:17:36]<pfred1> yeah that was how I looked at it I still decided to run something else htough
[04:17:44]<pfred1> which at the time was Ubuntu
[04:18:05]<pfred1> say what you will about Ubuntu out of the box the stuff is pretty slick
[04:18:19]<clytle374> it work
[04:18:21]<clytle374> s
[04:18:23]<pfred1> it took me a whole two months to get sick of it
[04:18:54]<clytle374> I got sick of it the first time I needed to compile something
[04:18:59]<pfred1> well I was sick of it before then but I tried working with it for a while
[04:19:18]* pfred1 can be rather persistant[04:19:50]<pfred1> then I started running Debian and this time I haven't looked back yet
[04:20:16]<pfred1> though I have to say I'm not 100% thrilled with Squeeze
[04:20:47]<pfred1> this box runs an old copy of Lenny and it is great
[04:21:05]<pfred1> this one's going to the grave with whats on it now
[04:21:40]<clytle374> Being on a satellite connection gentoo is great since it shares updates between 32 and 64 bit systems
[04:22:31]<pfred1> wow you get your data from space huh?
[04:22:39]* pfred1 has fios[04:22:46]<pfred1> its OK
[04:22:50]<clytle374> no other option here
[04:23:02]<pfred1> I'm really lucky i have a conneciton here
[04:23:24]<pfred1> they said they were going to wire the whole exchange and they did even if it took them almost 3 years to do it
[04:23:41]<pfred1> the drop off the pole to my house is 990 feet
[04:23:56]<pfred1> I almost felt bad for them when they were putting it in
[04:24:12]<clytle374> that's a short run
[04:24:22]<pfred1> that is all on my property
[04:24:38]<pfred1> like off the pole into my house across my front yard
[04:25:10]<clytle374> when they did ours it was 1.5 miles through 3 creeks
[04:25:36]<skunkworks> had hughes net for a while.. better than dialup - but that is about it
[04:25:51]<clytle374> took a public service commission complaint to get it done
[04:25:59]<pfred1> well sat has some latency but I thought the bandwidth was OK
[04:26:00]<clytle374> wildblew here
[04:26:15]<clytle374> total bandwith is a problem
[04:26:30]<skunkworks> ours was capped.
[04:26:46]<pfred1> I have the slowest fios in the country I'm on like a spur out of philly
[04:26:49]<clytle374> pasttense would be so nice of a way to state that
[04:27:02]<pfred1> and philly has to be close to 200 miles from me
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[04:27:34]<pfred1> I think I'm about 500 kb/s slower than regular fios
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[04:29:41]<pfred1> and DSL has better latency
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[04:29:54]<pfred1> well the DSL I've had in another location
[04:31:06]<clytle374> we might get dsl in within the year. wildblue put out a press release last fall about the new brid is going to rial dsl
[04:31:27]<clytle374> then I find that the speeds are good, but with a much lower cap
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[04:31:36]<pfred1> dsl was the first broadband i ever had
[04:31:38]<clytle374> plus new equipment and contract
[04:32:04]<pfred1> it seemed fast bac kthen to me
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[04:33:51]<clytle374> real internet is the only part of city life I miss
[04:34:18]<pfred1> I'm out in the sticks but I have fios
[04:34:38]<clytle374> we don't even have cell service here
[04:34:57]<pfred1> it is a bit shakey here only verizon really works on my property
[04:35:30]<pfred1> I think even that if i walk out onto my back deck it can fade out
[04:36:25]<pfred1> like this is my front yard http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5026/p4110020.jpg[04:37:14]<pfred1> the trail that comes from my back clearing http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5933/p1010021id.jpg[04:38:58]<pfred1> now if this ain't the sticks i don't know what is http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/8292/p2200017.jpg[04:39:10]<pfred1> and that is my backyard
[04:39:34]<clytle374>http://s706.photobucket.com/albums/ww70/clytle374/?action=view&current=1465_n.jpg[04:39:57]<pfred1> looks like the blue ridge mountains
[04:40:06]<clytle374> it is
[04:40:11]<pfred1> see I knew that
[04:41:00]<clytle374> when it's about 100 out, it's easy to tell
[04:41:20]<pfred1> you near the great smokey mountains?
[04:41:47]<clytle374> 3 hours
[04:42:08]<pfred1> oh good one of the worst roads i ever drove on was that I-40 coming out of knoxville
[04:42:16]<pfred1> what a nightmare!
[04:42:29]<clytle374> why?
[04:42:41]<clytle374> and toys http://s706.photobucket.com/albums/ww70/clytle374/?action=view&current=2011-07-28-222822.jpg[04:43:00]<pfred1> because everyone drives on it like they think they're racing at talladaga and the road is like one big long dead man's curve
[04:44:16]<pfred1> you know it is bad when they have to put up a sign before a tunnel that says remove sunglasses
[04:44:59]<clytle374> never seen a long dead man's curve
[04:45:20]<pfred1> although I figure any elvis loving freak stupid enough to wear sunglasses in a tunnel probably can't read too good either
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[04:50:20]<pfred1> clytle374 it looks sort of like this: http://g.co/maps/qudqb[04:50:21]<clytle374> oh yeah... grub2
[04:51:26]<clytle374> haha, that's a straight road
[04:51:46]<pfred1> yeah and that cliff on the side ain't no thousand foot drop off either
[04:52:39]<pfred1> the sat image just don't do it justice
[04:53:05]<pfred1> right before you go by that road they proudly display a sign that says white water rafting
[04:53:35]<pfred1> then you look down and say yup looks like white water way down there to me!
[04:54:08]<clytle374> I doubt there is any 1000' drops in the area
[04:54:25]<clytle374> but really, that road is pretty darn straight
[04:54:46]<pfred1> I didn't get out and measure them with a tape measure but I don't think you'd be living to tell the tale if you flew off
[04:56:00]<pfred1> all I'm saying is that whole stretch of road gave me much pause for thought as I traveled over it
[04:56:25]<pfred1> the road map I had just didn't give me any idea quite what it was going to be like
[04:56:26]<clytle374> welcome to the mountains
[04:57:00]<clytle374> my brakes last longer than my tires ;)
[04:57:01]<pfred1> I have a preconcepttion of what shielded interstate highways are like and that one just didn't live up to my expectations
[04:58:17]<pfred1> I'm looking at it now and remembering what it was like and I still can't believe it is an interstate highway
[04:58:56]<clytle374> We don't have many interstates around here
[05:01:46]<clytle374> not that are real useful for getting anywhere we need to go anyway
[05:02:33]<pfred1> clytle374 where i grew up if you couldn't land a jumbo jet on it it just wan't an interstate
[05:02:49]<clytle374> here's a chunk of interstate you should try out http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=37.952861,-81.175232&spn=0.751494,1.766052&t=h&z=9[05:04:59]<pfred1> heh Nutterville
[05:07:01]<pfred1> there's nothing there well one house
[05:10:52]X704 is now known as WalterN[05:11:00]<clytle374> well, test kernel runs... now trying 2.6.38.8... then rtai patch
[05:11:44]<pfred1> I don't think I've ever been to that part of west virginia I think I've only crossed through it by DC
[05:12:05]<Jymmmm> Here's some prime highway for ya... http://g.co/maps/4q7nj[05:12:23]<Jymmmm> Land anything you want on it!
[05:12:27]<pfred1> Jymmmm that would put me to sleep
[05:12:47]<Jymmmm> pfred1: I seriously doubt it
[05:12:51]<pfred1> I don't do very good on long straight roads
[05:13:15]<Jymmmm> It's te yuma Proving Grounds... misile go flying over your head all the time
[05:13:18]<Jymmmm> missiles
[05:13:30]<clytle374> good road... at 130ish
[05:14:00]<Jymmmm> clytle374: too bad the missiles goes E/W, instead of N/S
[05:14:08]<Jymmmm> you could race one
[05:14:09]<pfred1> Jymmmm there is a tool booth by where i grew up where planes are about 100 feet over your head while you are in line
[05:14:25]<pfred1> like big jumbo jet planes
[05:14:40]<Jymmmm> pfred1: If you're not in their jet wash, no biggy.
[05:15:06]<pfred1> they're so close you look for wheel marks on your car roof
[05:15:25]<Jymmmm> lol
[05:15:33]<pfred1> it is nuts
[05:15:37]<clytle374> racing missiles sounds fun
[05:15:45]<pfred1> the toll boot is right in line with a very busy runway
[05:16:09]<pfred1> and if you hit traffic you will get buzzed by a few planes
[05:16:58]<pfred1> when i lived in florida everyone raced the freight train
[05:17:13]<pfred1> because if you didn't make it you had to sit there for like 45 minutes while it went by
[05:17:27]<pfred1> and the train went like 60 MPH
[05:17:46]<clytle374> I paced a train in KS at ~90
[05:18:29]<pfred1> it couldn't have been as long as i remember it being
[05:18:39]<pfred1> but you had to wait a while while this thing went by
[05:19:26]<pfred1> all I remember is some hair raising rides to try to beat the train and we didn't always make it either
[05:22:23]<pfred1> ha ha this is it the buzz toll booth http://g.co/maps/572d8[05:22:35]<pfred1> look where the runway is
[05:23:15]<clytle374> Coal trains were the worst in KS, real long trains
[05:23:38]<pfred1> clytle374 know what train I saw once that was really cool?
[05:23:47]<pfred1> I saw one that was carrying train tracks
[05:23:49]<clytle374> Now that I'm thinking about it, after living here 8 years, I can't think of a railroad crossing in the state
[05:24:01]<pfred1> and I'm talking this train must have been coming right out of the steel mill
[05:24:11]<pfred1> because these pieces of track were miles long
[05:25:11]<clytle374> did they bend with the train?
[05:25:17]<pfred1> they must have
[05:25:36]<pfred1> as i can recall there were about 8 of them on these stands sort of
[05:25:52]<pfred1> and that train was going really slowly
[05:26:04]<pfred1> but they were continious pieces
[05:26:30]<pfred1> it blew my mind to see it
[05:26:58]<pfred1> it wasn't too far from the buzz toll booth but I cannot remember exactly where in newark I was
[05:27:00]<clytle374> well, I'm going to try and sleep. Hope I feel better when I wake up. dang cow mashed me yesterday and my lung hurts
[05:27:33]<pfred1> newark is a pretty crazy town
[05:27:40]<clytle374> NJ?
[05:27:51]<Jymmmm> CA?
[05:27:57]<pfred1> NJ
[05:28:08]<pfred1> I grew up not too far from it
[05:28:39]<clytle374> More barbed wire in NJ that in WV
[05:28:39]<Jymmmm> That explains EVERYTHING!
[05:28:47]<clytle374> lol
[05:29:02]<pfred1> Jymmmm thats right I grew up in the shadow of NYC
[05:29:22]<Jymmmm> No, in the smagma that is NJ
[05:29:31]<Jymmmm> ;)
[05:29:49]<pfred1> if you can afford it NJ is one of the best states there is
[05:29:53]<Jymmmm> dumb Q, will a sand blaster semi sand wood?
[05:30:04]<clytle374> no
[05:30:11]<pfred1> you can carve with a sand blaster in wood
[05:30:22]<pfred1> people make signs that way
[05:30:26]<Jymmmm> eh, can you turn it down a bit?
[05:30:36]<pfred1> use a different media
[05:30:39]<clytle374> the grain will be left sticking up
[05:30:48]<Jymmmm> no, just junk wood
[05:31:04]<pfred1> like don't use sand use crushed walnut shells or something
[05:31:11]<Jymmmm> cool
[05:31:20]<clytle374> that's expensive
[05:31:30]<pfred1> what you throw is called the media
[05:31:51]<Jymmmm> is there some cheap softer media?
[05:31:55]<clytle374> later all
[05:31:58]<pfred1> nite
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[05:32:24]<pfred1> really you're not supposed to blast with regular sand at all although everyone including me has and does
[05:33:02]<pfred1> sand blasting can be nasty work
[05:33:12]<pfred1> like if you are sand blasting under a car
[05:33:30]<pfred1> been there done that
[05:34:39]<pfred1> Jymmmm if you want cheap media you may have to make it yourself with a ball mill
[05:35:50]<pfred1> casting screwball get into making ball mills to make their moulding sands
[05:38:38]<pfred1> though mullers are more popular
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[09:08:03]Loetmichel_ is now known as Loetmichel[09:08:33]<Loetmichel> mornin'
[09:12:40]<mazafaka> morning
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[15:14:24]<JT-Shop>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4&feature=player_embedded#![15:14:25] -!- mazafaka has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[15:20:36]<archivist> you can hear the hob is not concentric
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[15:30:57]* Loetmichel is painting... slowly there is a mini spindle emerging... just a few more lines and then i can build it, the materials are here... ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12757[15:31:48]<archivist> you mean drawing not painting probably
[15:35:01]<Loetmichel> its more like painting 'cause i do it with corelDraw ;-)
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[15:39:01]<Loetmichel> i hope the Motor will be powerful enough, its only 240W @ 12V... 20kRPM.
[15:39:24]<Loetmichel> but as the Mill for it is made from PVC i see no problem ;-)
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[17:30:16]<pfred1> just reading the URL in the topic didn't NIST name EMC EMC?
[17:36:32]* pfred1 wonders if EMC will try to go after these guys http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/emc_links.html[17:37:09]<pfred1> who have enough nuclear weapons to vaporize the surface of the planet at least 7 times over
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[18:26:00]<mrsun> hmm, a bit crammed for space, was thinking to make a mill that stands up against the wall =)
[18:26:02]<mrsun> for flat stuff
[18:26:29]<mrsun> insted of taking like 200x100cm of space it would take like 100x40cm :P
[18:33:17]<syyl_> like the saws used for sheet-work?
[18:33:22]<pfred1> what is that in english?
[18:33:50]<syyl_>http://images.worldsoft-cms.info/wcms/ftp/p/pfisterkuechen.ch/siteimages/2252.jpg[18:33:54]<syyl_> that as a milling machine?
[18:34:15]<pfred1> that is a break down saw
[18:35:02]<syyl_> there are also milling machines that stand up vertical...
[18:35:10]<syyl_> most for sheetmetal work
[18:35:17]<pfred1> yeah real pain to clamp stuff too
[18:35:33]<syyl_> slightly angled and vac..
[18:36:06]<pfred1> syyl_ you ever machine much ferrous metals?
[18:36:18]<syyl_> most
[18:36:36]<pfred1> then you should know you have to hold that stuff pretty solid
[18:37:16]<syyl_> i usualy place it on the table of the machine and fix it with a strip of ducttape
[18:37:20]<syyl_> issn that the right way?
[18:37:32]<pfred1> if it works for you then it is
[18:37:45]<archivist> the direction it is held is a separate problem to horizontal/vertical
[18:38:03]<syyl_> serious: i know my trade, no need to teach me :P
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[18:40:32]<syyl_> ah
[18:40:33]<syyl_>http://www.steinhauer.de/en/mechanical-engineering/cnc-machining-center/ecab-workcenter[18:40:38]<syyl_> thats the machine i was refering to
[18:40:41]<pfred1> I imagine these sheet metal mills either use very small diameter bits or tooling that does not physically touch the work such as sinkers or lasers or something
[18:41:41]<syyl_> (that one uses pneumatic fixtures for clamping)
[18:42:02]<pfred1> air cylinders?
[18:42:08]<syyl_> almost
[18:42:13]<syyl_> air muscles
[18:42:18]<pfred1> not quite vacuum then
[18:42:22]<syyl_> no
[18:42:30]<syyl_> but you can also add a vac plate to it
[18:42:48]<syyl_> depends on what you want to do :)
[18:43:15]<pfred1> I can see vacuum working for some operations
[18:44:08]<syyl_> of course its not suitable for every kind of work
[18:54:52]<archivist> and for fun, reduce the cut depth to match work holding and work stiffness sometimes
[18:55:37]<syyl_> force the machinist to think about his work? ;)
[18:56:05]<archivist> this was a bugger http://gears.archivist.info/gears/p1010084_500.jpg[18:57:06]<syyl_> thats a nice setup
[18:57:25]<syyl_> ratchet wheel for a clock?
[18:57:56]<archivist> yes an escape wheel, hod to mount it and clean up the spacing
[18:58:01]<archivist> had to
[18:59:09]<syyl_> had such a "free float" setup last week, too
[18:59:11]<syyl_>http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2012-01-28_14-32-36_967.jpg[18:59:15]<archivist> but needed to be done after mounting on its spindle so the lightest of cuts
[18:59:31]<syyl_> workpiece supported by a prism chucked to the table
[18:59:35]<archivist> I saw your pics :)
[18:59:54]<syyl_> :)
[19:00:01]<syyl_> did you rework a finished wheel?
[19:00:12]<archivist> yes
[19:00:57]<syyl_> seems like one of those jobs at wich some people say "that cant be done.."
[19:01:05]<archivist> I was fixing a badly made "kit" for someone
[19:01:34]<archivist> the shaft for that wheel was more fun
[19:02:28]<syyl_> long and thinn? ;)
[19:02:32]<archivist>http://gears.archivist.info/gears/p1010058_500.jpg original above
[19:02:59]<syyl_> did you mill the worm?
[19:03:48]<archivist> yes, just trying to fins a pic, the clack before any work http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_03_06_Merlin_band_clock/[19:04:25]<syyl_> mh nice looking
[19:04:30]<syyl_> a bit steam-punkish
[19:04:54]<archivist> it drives the worm the wrong way
[19:05:17]<syyl_> ah, the long vertical shaft?
[19:05:31]<archivist> yes
[19:06:44]<archivist> found it http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07/2008_10_07_Merlin_worm/p1010053.jpg[19:06:59]<cradek> the crown wheel with seconds directly on it is awesome
[19:08:08]<cradek> (although it's very hard to tell what time it is)
[19:08:30]<syyl_> ok, that setup is realy special :D
[19:08:31]<pfred1> cradek that is relative
[19:09:01]<cradek> is it 8 day?
[19:09:12]<archivist> yes
[19:11:47]<archivist> syyl_, the sacrificial continuous support took some thinking after earlier attempts were failing due to shaft flex
[19:12:05]<syyl_> :D
[19:12:08]<syyl_> it looks strange
[19:12:16]<syyl_> but it seems to have worked fine
[19:12:38]<Jymmm> It looks GOT ER DONE =)
[19:12:56]<Jymmm> archivist: How many attempts before that?
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[19:13:05]<archivist> it also demonstrates strange setups where CAM wont go :)
[19:13:22]<syyl_> hrhr
[19:13:51]<archivist> Jymmm, iirc that is the third attempt which worked
[19:14:38]<Jymmm> archivist: Oh, not bad at all. Was it a bitch to get it at (what looks like) 45deg and aligned in all axis?
[19:15:05]<Jymmm> (plural)
[19:15:14]<archivist> would have been easier if I had built the 5th axis by then
[19:15:22]<Jymmm> heh
[19:15:30]<archivist> it convinced me of the need
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[19:45:40]<Jymmm> $1000 for a push mower?! http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/grd/2825866304.html[19:46:15] -!- jonnyATroot [jonnyATroot!~jonny@194.228.142.126] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:47:48]<syyl_> must be the best mower in the world ;)
[19:48:03]<syyl_> its hydrostatic self-propelled
[19:48:55]<pfred1> that is what my lawn tractor cost
[19:49:04]<pfred1> least i get to sit down on it
[19:49:09]<syyl_> same here...
[19:49:20]<pfred1> it is hydro too
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[19:49:30]<syyl_> ours not
[19:49:58]<pfred1> I've used the fork kind not too keen on them
[19:51:18]<pfred1> I have a Honda self propelled too but right now the rope spring is busted on it
[19:51:49]<WalterN>http://www.grasshoppermower.com/ <3
[19:51:54]<pfred1> would be nice to get it back into service
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[20:14:48]<Jymmm> I'm thinking about selling my router. Besides travel, what else should I put in the ad as far as "specs" go? Accuracy? Repeatability? Tolerances? Something Else? I'm not sure what ppl see/ask that's just bullshit (snake oil) and what is real.
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[20:23:09]<pfred1> Jymmm brand and model?
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[20:46:57]<ENG> Hello is this channel active? I have a question regarding configuring the parrallel port for my linuxcnc machine, can anyone help me?
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[20:48:43]<ENG> I've tried changing the parallel port pins in the .hal file to configure my machine, however this causes the LinuxCNC program to crash. Is there another way that I am to set the parallel port pins?
[20:48:52]<jdhNC> ask a specific question and see!
[20:49:28]<jdhNC> did you start out with the stepconf wizard?
[20:50:31]<ENG> no, I can not find the stepconf wizard? I have been reading through the integrator manual and I can really pinpoint how it is I change the parallel port pins for the step and direction of each axis
[20:51:51]<ENG> oh wow that was easy to find the stepconf wizard. I'll try learning about the stepconf wizard for a bit. Thank you.
[20:52:35]<pfred1> I just went with the defaults for parallel port pins
[20:53:01]<jdhNC> woohoo... I had a useful answer!
[20:53:22]<pfred1> but I imagine if I was to change them I'd start out in stepconf
[20:53:31]<Jymmm> jdhNC: Fine, once in a lifetime. You can take the dunce cap off (for the moment).
[20:53:48]<pfred1> Jymmm what kind of router are you selling?
[20:54:01]<Jymmm> Gantry
[20:54:03]<jdhNC> I used stepconf many times until I had to add something, now I can't use it and am forced to read every time.
[20:54:30]<pfred1> jdhNC you can backup your ini file then diff it
[20:55:16]<pfred1> jdhNC everytime i run stepconf it insists on putting axis in as my interface so I have to go in and edit that
[20:55:42]<pfred1> I figure if it gets to be too much I'll write a sed script to change things back
[20:55:57]<Jymmm> Use the wizrd for initial setup, then manually edit after that.
[20:56:04]<jdhNC> what do you use?
[20:56:09]<pfred1> tkemc
[20:56:18]<jdhNC> what does it do better/differently?
[20:56:26]<pfred1> it doesn't crash my X session
[20:56:46]<Jymmm> Neither does KeyStick =)
[20:56:53]<pfred1> plus i can get a lot higher step rate running it han Axis
[20:57:03]<jdhNC> I guess that could be an advantage, but axis doesn't crash mine.
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[20:57:20]<pfred1> something is buggy with my GL libs
[20:57:33]<jdhNC> non-ubuntu?
[20:57:42]<pfred1> anytime I run any GL app and I have the RTAI extention going X crashes
[20:57:47]<pfred1> yes
[20:58:14]<jdhNC> oh, you are one of them.
[20:58:15]<pfred1> I might be able to change to the software GL accel but I'm taking a big enough performance beating as it is
[20:58:31]<pfred1> so I never even bothered trying to do that
[20:59:05]<pfred1> i just compiled RTAI and EMC and put it on a Debian system
[20:59:16]<pfred1> I don't need Ubuntu
[20:59:34]<pfred1> in X I'm running 40 total processes
[20:59:49] -!- vladimirek has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[20:59:50]<pfred1> as opposed to 160
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[21:00:43]<pfred1> jdhNC last week the RAM died in that machine and I ran X with a total of 22MB of RAM
[21:01:02]<pfred1> I thought it was acting a little sluggish
[21:01:27]<jdhNC> c'mon, I used to run X on a 386 with 8mb
[21:01:38]<pfred1> which version?
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[21:01:52]<pfred1> xfree86?
[21:01:53]<jdhNC> dunno, it was 1993 or so.
[21:02:39]* Jymmm slaps jdhNC with a 21st-Century-Clue-By-Four[21:02:50]<pfred1> that box will sit in X with 32 MB total RAM used
[21:03:12]<pfred1> good luck doing that on Ubuntu
[21:03:35]<pfred1> if you can manage it you're better at Linux than I am
[21:05:12]<pfred1> plus it boots up in 16 seconds which isn't bad for a 1 Ghz P3 http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2250/wedoct27bootchart.png[21:05:49]<pfred1> stock it took 22 seconds
[21:05:56]<Jymmm> Heh, I'm selling a P3 1G laptop
[21:06:08]<pfred1> craptops are not towers
[21:06:22]<Jymmm> and it has 512MB ram even =)
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[21:06:30]<pfred1> tower o powah
[21:06:55]<pfred1> due to the chipset in that box 512MB is its max
[21:07:25]<Jymmm> Ok, Dual AMD Opteron 200 CPU's with 8 DIMM slots, 4 per cpu. 8 SATA ports, dual gig nics.
[21:07:41]<pfred1> I'd like to ty EMC on an AMD
[21:07:59]<Jymmm> no onboard video, so you can use your own video card.
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[21:08:15]<pfred1> I'm low on vid adapters at the moment
[21:08:32]<pfred1> I just have some junky ati laying around
[21:08:33]<jdhNC> I have 8 or 10 TVGA8900's you can have
[21:08:52]<pfred1> it was worse than my on board when it even worked
[21:08:54]<Jymmm> I'm going to be including that mobo/cpu with the router, along with a few other choice items
[21:09:59]<pfred1> next system I buy will be one of those mini atoms
[21:11:20]<pfred1> Jymmm what kind of latency did you get with your AMD?
[21:11:26]<Jymmm> I have one of these http://i54.tinypic.com/2i09ndk.jpg[21:11:48]<Jymmm> Including the rolling case to transport/store it in.
[21:12:30]<Jymmm> pfred1: Dont know yet, it's a server mobo and haven't tested it yet. Still sitting on my bench.
[21:12:37]<pfred1> oh
[21:12:48]<pfred1> yeah it does sound pretty beefy
[21:12:58]<Jymmm> It's a SuperMicro mobo
[21:13:01]* pfred1 is going in the other direction less is more[21:13:26]<Jymmm> I think this is it... http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/motherboard/Opteron/nForce/H8DCE.cfm[21:13:49]<Jymmm> I have a coupel mobos around here
[21:14:09]<pfred1> me too but all junk
[21:14:41]<Jymmm> pfred1: I'll sell ya some, but the shipping might be rough.
[21:16:36]<pfred1> I want to get something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119037[21:18:34]<pfred1> its cute
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[21:36:03]<syyl_>http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/wzw_spindel9.jpg[21:37:02]<syyl_> getting close with my toolchanging spindle ;)
[21:38:46]<archivist> you could get less overhang bearing to opening
[21:40:52]<pfred1> foxconn needs to beat their webmasters harder half the links on their site don't work
[21:40:52]<syyl_> a bit, yes
[21:41:05]<syyl_> but i need room for the spindle not on front..
[21:41:51]<archivist> what collet type is that
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[21:45:03]<syyl_> hmm
[21:45:07]<syyl_> own design
[21:45:15]<syyl_> borrowed from a commercial highspeed spindle
[21:45:29]<syyl_> for tools with 6mm shank
[21:45:33]<mrsun> hmm
[21:45:50]<mrsun> how does that fit? "own design borrowed from commercial highspeed spindle" .. do you see the error int hat? :P
[21:45:50]<pfred1> what is 6mm a quarter of an inch?
[21:46:01]<mrsun> 1/4 about yes
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[21:46:05]<mrsun> 6.35 i think is a quarter
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[21:46:21]<pfred1> mrsun ah i see a cheap 1/4"
[21:46:33]<mrsun> no a real 6MM =)
[21:46:48]<mrsun> imperial units are just make beleive
[21:46:58]<pfred1> mrsun just like all the 13mm is really a half an inch
[21:47:14]<pfred1> mrsun until you get there is is still a quarter of a million miles to the Moon
[21:47:29]<syyl_> fsk
[21:47:38]<syyl_> not another imperial /metric discussion
[21:47:45]<mrsun> haha :P
[21:47:55]<syyl_> metric is better, fullstop
[21:48:26]<syyl_> and yes, i see the error, mrsun ;)
[21:48:56]<archivist> I would change one of the registers on the body so I could turn the body outer all in one session
[21:49:31]<archivist> and part off from that register
[21:51:59]<pfred1> mrsun where is the error?
[21:52:13]<mrsun> in what he wrote? :)
[21:52:19]<syyl_> that makes sense, archivist
[21:52:21]<mrsun> if he borrowed it from a design it cant be his design :P
[21:52:24]<syyl_> *takes a note"
[21:53:09]<Loetmichel> *waaah* years later....
[21:53:18]<pfred1> mrsun why not? he is incorporating it into a new design of his what you're saying is because it has been done before no one can use straight lines
[21:53:44]<archivist> syyl_, thinking which parts and what order to machine can keep one quiet for a bit
[21:53:48]<Loetmichel>http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12763 <- three hours ago...
[21:53:59]<Loetmichel>http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12766 <- now
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[21:56:29]<pfred1> Loetmichel takes a long time to work beryllium doesn't it?
[21:57:41]<mrsun> you just try unobtanium
[21:59:08]<pfred1> Loetmichel you're going to have the coolest CPU heatsink of all time though
[21:59:49]<Jymmm> Loetmichel: it took you three hours to blow away the dust?
[22:00:20]<pfred1> Jymmm you don't want to get Berylliosis
[22:00:41]<Jymmm> Loetmichel: And I notice the Ikea Light too =)
[22:01:10]<Loetmichel> pfred1: its just a hard aluminium... (7075?)
[22:01:27]<Loetmichel> pfred1: isnt a heatsink.
[22:01:34]<pfred1> when aliens finaly visit Earth their first stop will undoubtedly be Ikea
[22:01:56]<Jymmm> Since when does Area 51 have an Ikea?
[22:02:02]<Loetmichel> will be a mini Mill spindle for a "open workshop" around here.
[22:02:17]<Loetmichel>http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12757[22:02:40]<pfred1> Loetmichel make me a beryllium heatsink
[22:03:33]<pfred1> so are you making the piece on the bottom?
[22:03:44]<Loetmichel> yes
[22:04:22]<pfred1> the bottom being by the 43.00 mm dimension?
[22:05:26]<Loetmichel> yes
[22:05:38]* pfred1 guessed good[22:06:05]<pfred1> Loetmichel have you given any thought to making a lathe for yourself?
[22:06:50]<Loetmichel> pfred1: i have a lathe. two to be precise
[22:07:04]<pfred1> Loetmichel why didn't you make this piece on it?
[22:07:15]<Loetmichel> but they are not CNC so i am to lazy to use them
[22:08:04]<Loetmichel> and because there are some square parts and i dont want to clamp it two times to get the bearing seat precise
[22:08:45]<Loetmichel> i will use a t-slot-bit fpr the other bearing seat
[22:09:31]<syyl_> how are you going to measure behind the relief?
[22:09:33]<Loetmichel> Jymmm: the ikea light is great. compact and not in the way
[22:09:43]<Loetmichel> syyl_: i do not ;-)
[22:09:52]<Jymmm> Loetmichel: Yeah, after you told me I got one.
[22:10:17]<pfred1> I have some high intensity lamp I picked up at a garage sale on my mill
[22:10:25]<Loetmichel> and brighter than my camera ca cope with ;-)
[22:10:41]<Jymmm> pfred1: the ikea one is LED on a gooseneck.
[22:10:59]<pfred1> Jymmm the garage sale lamp was a quarter
[22:11:14]<Loetmichel> pfred1: and its 3W and only 10 eur over here ;-)
[22:11:15]<syyl_> and where kann Jymmm your garage sale lamp?
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[22:11:27]<Jymmm> pfred1: and $5 on the electric bill =)
[22:11:31]<pfred1> Loetmichel a quarter is about a tenth of a euro
[22:11:43]<Loetmichel>http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12223[22:12:09]<Loetmichel> pfred1: yeah, but no garage sales around here. and the ikea lamp is NEW 10 bucks ;-)
[22:12:33]<pfred1> Loetmichel the photons my lamp emits are all guaranteed new
[22:12:36]<Loetmichel> and the gooseneck is a fine feature
[22:12:48]<Loetmichel> pfred1: troll
[22:14:05]<pfred1> when the bulb blows out in my lamp I'll probably jamb a harbor freight flashlight into it
[22:14:14]<pfred1> they'e 9 LEDs
[22:14:27]<pfred1> and free
[22:15:38]<Loetmichel> gn8, i better go to sleep than waste my time with a troll
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[22:16:55]<pfred1> yeah go to sleep babies get cranky when they're tired
[22:17:13]<syyl_> you realy seem to have a problem...
[22:17:17]syyl_ is now known as syyl[22:17:18]<Loetmichel> pfred1: why should i? I have a wife which will do that for me ;-)
[22:17:30]<Loetmichel> so, bedtime now ;-)
[22:17:48]<pfred1> Loetmichel a wife that will put you to sleep?
[22:17:50]<Loetmichel> (he told me in query to go and F*** myself)
[22:18:25]<pfred1> what?
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[23:54:23]<Jim_> How do you do a query?
[23:55:04]<skunkworks> with sql statements?
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[23:55:53]<Jim_> that's over my head. At least, right now.
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