So the Russian wives and mothers receiving the dead bodies of their sons and husbands from the Ukraine supporting rebels they funded and made and
asking for an explanation as to why their sons died in Ukraine are lairs huh?

I guess we had nothing to do with the Iran-contra thing. We didnt send troops after all. Weapons and training are fair game even if they are being
given to murders bent on WAR.

Sure thing. We also had nothing to do with the Taliban when they were armed and trained by us to kill Russians. OK. Thanks for clearing that up.

Russia is good to go. Take it all. Hell take back all your former territories that dont want you. Set your borders to the former Soviet bordrs because
as long as no tanks are sent its not war.

And of course Afghanistan before that, taken over from the Brits and followed on by the US who then continued into Iraq and under the guise of NATO,
Libya. There have been, are, and will continue to be 'invasions' by one country of another real or imagined, military or economic, for as long as
humans think it is necessary to make others see their viewpoint through the application of force.

Perhaps you Americans do not understand that the Ukraine - complete - was Russian at one time, and given independence and Crimea wanted to remain
Russian as that is it's ethnicity.

At no time in this recent fracas has Russia 'invaded' Ukraine because even if they have supplied arms and munitions, the US has done the same and by
that token and your own criteria could be construed to have 'invaded' Ukraine.

It behoves people to have informed opinions and not to simply spout the kool aid of choice which as far as I can see is all that is happening in this
thread apart from one individual.

To call someone a shill just because they disagree with you is childish in the extreme and not conducive to reasoned and constructive debate, but then
perhaps that is not what people are interested in? Russian propaganda? American propaganda? All made in Taiwan!

Stop right there my Russian shill who is now following me across the boards.

MODS PLEASE TAKE NOTE.

Well I started a thread and you appear and was abusive not just to me but anyone not agreeing with you and even got one or more of your replies
deleted and then you started this thread where off the cuff you called half the posters shills.

Apart from these two threads I don't think I have ever seen you before so lets have some links please ?

At no time in this recent fracas has Russia 'invaded' Ukraine because even if they have supplied arms and munitions, the US has done the same and by
that token and your own criteria could be construed to have 'invaded' Ukraine.

so BECAUSE the US has done things, conquest is not conquest?

If they are ethnic Russians I think they would be in Russia. While there are MANY groups that SHARE Russian heritage in eastern Europe, its insulting
to Ukrainians to say they are Russians. Ethnic Russians are a distinct minority and MOST are in Russia.

What YOU think is an "American" issue of comprehension is really an issue with not liking a country invading another. If its all normal as you say
then we would not have international laws against it.

Its wrong. Just as wrong for a Russian government to engage in conquest like it is for a British or American government to do so. Its wrong according
to our CIVILIZATION and its laws.

EDIT TO ADD:

To call someone a shill just because they disagree with you is childish in the extreme and not conducive to reasoned and constructive
debate

Well, it is the MAIN POINT OF THE THREAD. Its no secret. Russia has a huge propaganda machine following its war efforts. I dont think anyone even read
the source material.

LOL

Oh well, down with America and long live Putin / Jesus. A southern baptist could take notes in blind fervor.

The US killed over a million Iraqis and Afghans. Russia didn't hurt a single person in Crimea. They seemed to have got a warm welcome. The US? Not so
much.

Not quite right and I have to stop you !

One person was killed on polling day in the Crimea, not sure what side he was on but we must assume anti-Russian so must rule in that the KGB did
it.

Since the election I have not heard pip squeak from the Crimea so we must also assume they got what they wanted.

Now I must return to the Ukraine government that is bombing its own people from a great distance using tank shells to bomb city's that puts paid to
the theory some people have around here that the Kiev government is made up of CND supporters and not a bunch of Nazi war criminals.

Cluster bombing city's kills the people and not terrorists/rebels/freedom fighters that maybe hiding around

What YOU think is an "American" issue of comprehension is really an issue with not liking a country invading another.

On the assumption, possibly incorrectly that you are American I find that particular statement a little odd.

If they are ethnic Russians I think they would be in Russia.

Applying that logic the world would be a very different place an I guess the US would only be the home of the Native Americans, oh but wait a moment
they were Mongolians 30,000 year or so ago......

No, Crimea is mainly Russian heritage and chose to remain so. Ukraine in the east is mainly Russian heritage and wishes to remain aligned with
Russia.

At the end of the day this fight for independence, or terrorism depending on your viewpoint, is neither the business of the Americans/Europeans or the
Russians. My main problem with Europe and America is that they seem to think they are obliged to get involved in everyone else's affairs especially
if gas/oil is to be had. On the other hand where there are very grave social injustices committed against citizens of a country by it's rulers they
say nothing if that country is deemed to be our friend (i.e. we already have the oil/gas) This is a two faced attitude and both Europe and America
need to be reined in.

Perhaps before making such a challenge you should clarify what they are doing, or rather what you think they are doing and then back that up with
irrefutable evidence? I have no idea what they (the Russians) are supposedly doing that is not to your liking, however one you give a proven account
perhaps one can form a sound argument. It is had to argue against hearsay.

Do you have anything ON TOPIC to say? Leave if you dont like it. I didnt invade your country and force you to post here.

if this thread is not about Russia, The Ukraine or propaganda then you are right but you have to understand that I like it here, even feel its my duty
to offer up a debate.

If you are from the USA then no you did not invade us, just never left after WWII and now want to start a war in our back garden but if you are asking
about how many countries the USA has invaded since WWII then I am sorry but I can only give you an estimate and say that its well into the double
digits.

The world has a population of about 7bn and the USA has a population of about 350 million and yet it needs to spend more on what you call defence than
the rest of the world combined so trying to portray the USA as a peace loving nation and not the worlds bully by putting the blame on Muslims, Russia,
Cuba, China might carry some weight if the facts said otherwise.

Throw in the amount of money the USA spends on propaganda and it is no wonder that the deficit is measured at anything from $20tr to $700tr but if you
think my figures on military spending are not correct then do provide a link and estimate yourself how much it costs to run more than 400 foreign
military base around the globe.

So I guess you would support Nazi Germany in its invasion of Poland since "ethnic" Germans were being brutalized by polish forces? Using your logic
of coarse, and it is logic you are using correct?

The Ukraine in its entirety like other former SOVIET territories were part of the SOVIET union. They were not part of modern day Russia.

It is SO very insulting to a Ukrainian to say that they are basically Russians. If there were so many "ethnic" Russians in Crimea why then did they
not form part of the Russian federation after the fall of the soviet government?

Tell me. If you had rebels in your country that were funded, armed and trained by a foreign country what would you like done? ask them for a
passport and if not ask them to leave?

If there are armed people trying to use violence to overthrow your government just to install a puppet government that will be subservient to a
foreign entity what would you do?

NOT fight ARMED men?

I am getting a little confused here. Just who is it that you think is a puppet government, the current one in the Ukraine or the former one, and just
who it is you think is using fighters armed and trained by a foreign country?

And talking about rebels in my country (where I am living) being armed by a foreign country I would point out that without that the State of Ireland
would never have come into being.

Why should the Eastern side of the Ukraine not have the same right to self determination?

More crap about the US? Ok. Anything about RUSSIAN propaganda? No? OK. YOu do realize that this thread is about that right?

Are you done at least?

That was entirely off topic. This is NOT about the US. Its about RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA following its invasions in recent history. Care to elaborate on
that? Is it ok, wrong, non existent according to you? What?

and you say I disrupted another thread? That I FOLLOWED you like you have me here? Dude, go away or talk to me... not at me. At least in that other
thread I spoke honestly what I think and feel. I was called a shill and treated like a disease. Now you come here with that crap? YOU are being rude.
I was just posting my thoughts, you know as per the function of this site. You are being a weirdo.

Look who's telling you Russia is invading the Ukraine. It's certainly not the Russians. I'm doubtful there are even troops on Ukrainian soil. It's
just more american bs propaganda so they can justify the stranglehold they're trying to put on Russia. When the U.S. invades, they tell the whole
damn world about it so they can justify their bullsh!t reasoning. Makes sense that the Russians would at least try and explain why they're
"invading"...

This ends NOW. The next person to post ANYTHING not relating to the topic at hand will be immediately Post Banned. The next personal attack
will result in a 72 hour Post Ban. I don't care what your views on either side of the issue is, you will discuss the topic at hand, NOT each
other.

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