I'm making some progress with grabs, but it's kinda hard to test since the points are based on how long you hold the grab but the trick callout doesn't indicate how long the grab lasted. I'll figure it out in due time, though.

Anyway, where to start...

It looks like grabs at each 'tier' (normal / tricky / super tricky) are split into 3 levels, based on difficulty. (Actually I've only collected data for 'tier 1' tricks so far, but I'm assuming it'll also be true for ubers.)

(I play Standard-buttons, but I'll use directions on the stick to avoid confusion between consoles. Apologies to those using Classic, but I haven't mapped the grabs on those controls yet.)

(I haven't bothered including the level one ubers. They're just called Uber Melon, Uber Indy, Switch Uber Stiffy, etc. So just look at the basic grab and add "Uber".)

Ok, so now for points. Well, I was completely wrong about HUGE! and MASSIVE! -- they're not bonus points. At least, not in the way I was thinking. They just indicate when you're bumped up to a higher points-per-frame for the grab.

I did a ton of Melons & Indys and recorded all of the different scores I saw. I then sorted the scores and tried to fill in the gaps in my score list.

Note there are 30 possible scores with a HUGE! callout. Also note that the game runs at 30fps. Also note that the MASSIVE! callout happens 1 second after the HUGE callout. I believe the "INCREMENT" (in the 'lotsa numbers' hidden section above) is the number of points awarded during the last frame of the grab.

A Melon earns 33.3 points per frame at first, then bumps up to 41.6 per frame ("HUGE!"), then up to 50 per frame ("MASSIVE!"). Points-per-frame may increase even more, but there's no callout after "MASSIVE". Further study is needed.

(Random side note -- there are 13 frames before "HUGE!", but this seems like a weird number to me. I'm thinking "HUGE!" actually happens after 15 frames, which would be exactly 1/2 second. The first 2 frames of the grab just don't earn any points, which also would explain why it's possible to do a 180 Indy and earn exactly the same number of points as a regular 180.)

I haven't worked out the details for the other grabs yet. Back to the game to see if I can make a bit more progress tonight -- I really want to finish as much of this as possible before Tuesday...

Ok, I have a scoring model mostly built out, for simple grabs at least. (No tweaks or ubers yet.) The first second of the grab is a bit wonky, possibly because the first frames of the animation don't earn points... not quite sure about that part just yet. But after the first second, my scoring model makes complete sense and fits every piece of data I've collected so far.

So the basic idea is just that a grab earns points every frame. And after each second (each second = 30 frames), the points-per-frame increases. (The HUGE! callout happens after 1 second & the MASSIVE! callout happens after 2. There are no callouts after MASSIVE! but the points do still get bumped up again after each second.)

Using the 3 levels (basic / better / best) from my last post, here's the points-per-frame for non-uber grabs:

Ah, they should have thrown in MONSTER! at the 5 second mark just for nostalgic kicks.

My longest test grab was actually just a few frames short of 5 full seconds... I haven't seen it on any vids though, and I'm assuming some of those master runs had much longer grabs than my simple testing involved.

In terms of Scoring Mechanics: How important is it to keep your combo going? It seems like the more important thing is your flow.

From what I can tell, if you land a trick worth 10K points, two things happen: the 10K is multiplied by your flow and added to your current score; and the 10K is added to your combo total. When you cash out your combo, your combo total is multiplied by your flow as well.

In past games, the amount added to your combo total depended on how far into your combo you were. So at the very start (first trick of combo), 50% of the trick's value was added to your combo total, and if your combo was 30 tricks or more, 200% of the trick's value was added to your combo total. This made it very important to get your combo up to 30+ very quickly, and keep it there, cashing it out usually at the very end of the run (unless you wanted to be a little more conservative and cash out earlier, in which case you still wanted to get it back up to 30+ ASAP).

Now, it seems there is really no reason to do a bunch of quick 180's / nose presses to get your combo count up (in fact, doing so will kill your flow so is a very bad idea; this is probably why my first scores were so low on the demo! :-p). Furthermore, it seems there is little incentive not to cash out your combo frequently; as long as your flow is 20x, why not cash in?

Or is there some part of scoring (e.g. a bonus for long combos that is significant) that I am unaware of?

Separately, why can't EA just release the full details of the scoring mechanics for reference, rather than requiring us to reverse-engineer it? Anybody ever asked them?

How important is it to keep your combo going? It seems like the more important thing is your flow.

Only kind of important, if that makes sense. Flow determines the vast majority of your score - your combo count on the lower left only determined the combo bonus you get once you cash in the combo. The combo bonus ranges anywhere from a few thousand points to a million when you reach a 100 combo, but it is a one-time bonus only and not multiplied by the Flow multiplier. With that said, a million points is nothing to scoff at.

Quote:

Furthermore, it seems there is little incentive not to cash out your combo frequently; as long as your flow is 20x, why not cash in?

Correct, once your multiplier is 20x, it makes no real mathematical difference when you cash in your combo. However, a million point bonus for a 100x is nothing to scoff at in serious competiion. And to answer your question about what is the best tactic to get your multiplier up quicky, it is not quick 180's, but rather several small jumps with quick flips and grabs about a second apart while going down the regular course. The collective term for this is 'bunny hopping' at the moment. You can see it here:

I haven't done any controlled testing with ubers (it's hard to catch the scores in real time when you have a combo going, and I don't have a way to record test runs) but I've tried to do some analysis from runs that are up on youtube. I tried to group the ubers together by approximate length of grab & then compared points after subtracting out points from flips & spins. I can't say anything precise about how many points the tricks earn, because this is all sorta 'back of the envelope' approximations, but it looks like all tweaked ubers are better than the signature trick. (From testing of regular grabs, it looks like tweaking adds a TON of points, so I'm assuming the sig trick is better than all non-tweaked ubers. But none of the vids I analyzed did any non-tweaked ubers, except the sig trick which can't be tweaked.)

Some other notes:- Always do flips. They add a lot of points, especially when you get to 3+ per trick.- Never do spins. In my testing, it did not seem possible to do spins without slowing the flip. (Or maybe I'm just bad.)- Go for the biggest air possible. A 5-second grab is often worth more than 10x as much as a 1-second grab. Do ubers on flat ground between jumps, but always try to get to the next MASSIVE! air as fast as possible.- Always do grabs*, and always tweak. In my testing, grabs (tweaked or regular) did not slow flips, so there's not even a tradeoff. Just do it.(You may have to release a tweaked grab slightly sooner to land properly, but the bonus points from the tweak FAR outweigh losing a few frames of grab time at the end.)- Tweak your grabs immediately, and hold tweak for the whole grab. It seems tweaking is not just a flat bonus to the trick, but rather each frame of the grab will earn more points tweaked than it will non-tweaked.

*You may not want to start a grab if you're going for "Off the Heli", which nets a cool 20k. (It's been mentioned in other threads on here that if you're doing an uber already, the heli will not interrupt. But I'm not sure if that's fact or just speculation.) You should still uber & flip after hitting the heli, though.

gondee wrote:

a million point bonus for a 100x is nothing to scoff at

Is this confirmed? I remember Batty mentioning that number, but I thought he said that he didn't remember exactly and was just suggesting something it might be. The biggest bonus I've seen so far is 200k for a 70+ combo.

poach wrote:

why can't EA just release the full details of the scoring mechanics for reference, rather than requiring us to reverse-engineer it?

Because then I'd be just a random nubcake on the forum with nothing significant to contribute.

I have always liked doing twists it's kind of a shame that it's not worth near as much. sounds like everyone will be doing nothing but flip tricks to set high scores. Does tricky meter go up quicker with doing flips than it does with spins also? this would be good to know for racing

Is this confirmed? I remember Batty mentioning that number, but I thought he said that he didn't remember exactly and was just suggesting something it might be. The biggest bonus I've seen so far is 200k for a 70+ combo.

Just to help you in your theory work, i have had an 85 combo which netted me 225k. Hope this helps, keep up the good work.

OK guys, recap & update time. I've made some progress with ubers, though I didn't collect data for the sig trick yet. Also still need to sort out some data for rail tricks & tweaks before posting that stuff.(* denotes Coming Soon)

TLDR:- Tweak all tricks.- Do flips, not spins.- Best grabs are Mute Tweak & Stalefish Tweak.- Best ubers are All You Can Eat Tweak & Blackbird Tweak.- Hold tricks as long as possible. One 5-sec trick is worth more than ten 1-sec tricks.- Combo bonus is nice, but is not required for a top run (at leat not yet). It's OK to cash in combo with 20x flow, but make sure you have time to get back to Super Tricky before any big jumps. Ubers are worth 2x as many points as regular grabs; a huge jump at 20x with a regular grab instead of an uber could cost you 1.5 million points.- Use Pieces of Flare to keep combos alive.- Off the Heli at 20x Flow for 800,000 points.

EDIT: Adding the trick list from my earlier post.(I'm using directions on the stick to avoid confusion between consoles; it's trivial to convert stick directions to button presses. Apologies to those using Classic, but I haven't mapped the grabs on those controls yet.)

Should I make a post like my 'recap' just above in the Mega Info sticky, and edit that post whenever more details are added to the scoring model? Or would that be over-stepping -- is that thread just for mods to post in?

I'm thinking I could keep this thread active for working out the details and getting feedback, but actually have the final product in the sticky where people can find it.

This is awesome. Could you include controls for the Basic / Better Best Ubers? I think I saw it somewhere, but can't find it. Is it:Basic = hold a single direction on the Right Stick (and tweak)Better = push the Right Stick in one direction and roll 90 degrees to another direction (and tweak)Best = push the Right stick left, then quickly right, or vice versa (and tweak)?

This is awesome. Could you include controls for the Basic / Better Best Ubers? I think I saw it somewhere, but can't find it. Is it:Basic = hold a single direction on the Right Stick (and tweak)Better = push the Right Stick in one direction and roll 90 degrees to another direction (and tweak)Best = push the Right stick left, then quickly right, or vice versa (and tweak)?

Thanks!

Yep, that's it. Note that starting with Down on the right stick followed by any other direction will always be a basic trick (Truckdriver/Sledgehammer) regardless it does not modify where you grab the board unlike when you start with Up (2 hands grab the board), Left (grabs with left hand) and Right (grabs with right hand).

I was also wondering if any progress has been made on determining what exactly it takes to increase your flow meter. I saw something about doing multiple suber-ubers in a single jump potentially increasing in twice; was this confirmed? Any other tips on getting in up to 20X as quickly as possible? Thanks!

I fell asleep when I was putting my daughter to bed last night, so I never made it to my xbox to do any more testing or to my PC to update this thread. So just a quick update from work this morning, though I don't have all the data with me so it'll be a bit general.

However, the Sig Trick works a bit differently because it has a longer animation. Other grabs end as soon as you let go of the grab button, though you do need to let go a few frames before you land. But the Sig Trick continues after you let go of the grab button - it keeps going (and you keep accruing points) until it reaches a 'natural' break in the animation. The only way to have the trick end before the animation finishes is to actually land the trick. If you let go of the grab button early enough, then you'll make a good landing even if the animation hasn't finished. So you'll actually be earning points from the trick right up until the frame before you hit the ground, and you'll still make a good landing.

I don't have the game yet (hopefully it will arrive in the mail today) so I've only tested Zoe's Sig Trick. I'm expecting all of the characters will use the same scoring model, but other characters may have different 'natural' breaks in their animations. I'll test that theory once I can access more characters in the full game.

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