Actually I want a 7D (or successor), but I really like the 24-105L. But the problem is, if I buy a 7D body and a 24-105 seperately I'll pay (at Amazon) 2345 EUR. This is quite a lot. The problem is, that the 5D II Kit with the 24-105 is just 2555 EUR. Thats just 210 Euros more. I never wanted a full frame camera... but well... just about 200 bucks more fÃ¼r a fullframe body... this is hard and kind of frustrating...The same problem comes if you want a 60D with a 15-85...

Why aren't there more different Kits?

This exactly what I point out to people when the subject 7D vs 5DII comes up. It's what I figured when I was in the market for my first digital SLR last year. Only that I wanted "full frame" anyway all along which is why I waited so long to transition from film.

But in all fairness, the market is already pretty spaced out within three main SLR segments: entry level kits, mid range kits and anything that appeals to serious enthusiasts and pros willing to shell out some serious cash. I looked at the 7D briefly. The problem was that not only did I really want a 5DII but also the kit lens did not appeal to me at all. And going "L" on these crop bodies is also somewhat questionable for general photography because you'll miss out at the wide end or pay even more extra. Not that a 7D with, say a 24-70, 24-105 or 16-35 wouldn't go a long way. But you already did the math...So unless you care mostly about the long end then it makes limited sense to most people to save 300 or 400 bucks that you'll spend elsewhere.

I suggest deciding on a format now and sticking with it. Either get 5D2 plus 24-105, or 7D plus 15-85.

Yop, you're right... The problem is: The needs and requirements for new "toys" are growing fast if you surfing the net and watching videos... Actually the only thing I'm missing at a 7D or the 5D is a flip screen...

Probably I'll just wait until the next announcment from Canon... Either the 7D2 or the 5D3.

Just curious: what are you using now? And what are you intending to use the swivel screen for? To me this is a pretty useless feature that I hope Canon will never introduce to the 5 or 1 series (or equivalent). Another part that breaks without any normal use value. It's an SLR for a reason. "Live view" is one of those things that are really meant for very special applications. Again, just my view.

Dave

People always say (I also do ;-): "Don't panic. Your current cam won't stop taking pictures, right now" if they are whining about new cameras... But well my camera almost DOES. I have 350D. I'm using it half private and half for my job (flyers, marketing product photography etc.) I often come to the limits of the cam...

For that purpose APS-C would be quite enough, but a customers asked me if Icould do a small image film of their company additionaly I want to start a professional video blog. And well... for that purpose a full frame cam would be kind of nice... kind of VERY nice

Especially at a project where you are recording yourself, a flip screen is a everything else but not "useless".

Quote

Get the 60D

The problem is that I made a big mistake! I went to the shop and took the 7D in my hand... The next mistake I made was looking through the view finder (man! The AF of the 7D is REALLY cool, the 100% VF also)

I suggest deciding on a format now and sticking with it. Either get 5D2 plus 24-105, or 7D plus 15-85.

Yop, you're right... The problem is: The needs and requirements for new "toys" are growing fast if you surfing the net and watching videos... Actually the only thing I'm missing at a 7D or the 5D is a flip screen...

Probably I'll just wait until the next announcment from Canon... Either the 7D2 or the 5D3.

Just curious: what are you using now? And what are you intending to use the swivel screen for? To me this is a pretty useless feature that I hope Canon will never introduce to the 5 or 1 series (or equivalent). Another part that breaks without any normal use value. It's an SLR for a reason. "Live view" is one of those things that are really meant for very special applications. Again, just my view.

Ditto, keep the easily-broken bits out of the pro bodies. If the 7D mk2 has a swivel screen, i'm keeping my mk1 (although i'm also another one of those "i'll move to FF when the 5d3 comes out" people).

Some times (for macro, for example) i would really really love a swivel screen because of the angles. but i'd rather invest in an external battery-powered hdmi-input screen (if one exists) or cart my laptop around, rather than lose waterproofing and ruggedness of my 7D...

People always say (I also do ;-): "Don't panic. Your current cam won't stop taking pictures, right now" if they are whining about new cameras... But well my camera almost DOES. I have 350D. I'm using it half private and half for my job (flyers, marketing product photography etc.) I often come to the limits of the cam...

For that purpose APS-C would be quite enough, but a customers asked me if Icould do a small image film of their company additionaly I want to start a professional video blog. And well... for that purpose a full frame cam would be kind of nice... kind of VERY nice

Especially at a project where you are recording yourself, a flip screen is a everything else but not "useless".

Quote

Get the 60D

The problem is that I made a big mistake! I went to the shop and took the 7D in my hand... The next mistake I made was looking through the view finder (man! The AF of the 7D is REALLY cool, the 100% VF also)

Dave,

All of that makes perfect sense. If your current crop camera serves you well artistically and professionally I see no reason to switch to a different format. Given your specific need for this type of video application the 60D seems like a good choice.

But here is my thought - and take it with a grain of salt because I have different applications and rarely ever do anything that resembles professional work in those areas. I always enjoyed photography and if there sometimes is something that is somewhat "professional" it's more along the lines of a "vanity business". I really don't enjoy video production so it's just family stuff for me and very rarely helping out in a pinch. Hence, I have never even tried the video capabilities of my 5DII and rather rely on my little DV camera. And when I recently helped my wife with a work project that included interviewing people I actually took a pro video camera from a local studio with me. That was way easier than trying to figure out how to use my 5DII and hook it up to decent audio equipment etc.

What I'm saying is that, yes, the new EOS cameras are being used by professional and enthusiast video folks because of the large sensors, low light capability and DOF options. But it is also pretty difficult and in the end expensive to do this right.

If I did this for money I'd have each tool fitting each need. Get the 7D or 5DII (or whatever) that you like for stills and get a decent used video cam for the other stuff. Again, my 5c based on my limited and unique experience.