The Brawl at Town Hall

If you’re not doing anything tonight, come on down to the Seattle Follies at Town Hall, and watch me and KUOW’s John Moe duke it out in a post-election political boxing match. Seattle City Councilwoman Sally Clark hosts, 7:30 PM, $15 at the door. More info…

Just gotta love those conservative business owners who enjoy Bush’s tax cuts and “say” they support the troops who go out and defend America for them, but say HELL NO to getting your fucking jobs back when you return from combat.

Hey Redneck, You don’t even believe in simple constitutional concepts like due process, do you? You know, concepts basic to American jurisprudence like notice, an opportunity to be heard, right to counsel, right to be tried by a jury of one’s peers? You know, those concepts we fought the War of Independence to establish? You convict Murtha of stale, unsubstantiated charges that never even brought an indictment. Your obsession with calling him a criminal makes you look even more foolish than ever. Good God, you’ve chi squared your foolishness. Congratulations, you insignificant twerp.

GBS says: Just gotta love those conservative business owners who enjoy Bush’s tax cuts and “say” they support the troops … but say HELL NO to getting your fucking jobs back …. Typical. 11/16/2006 at 4:52 pm

No, that’s not why Darcy Burner lost. Darcy Burner lost, because the 8th CD has a lot of people whose most effective mode of argumentation requires erecting straw men like the notion that Darcy Burner blamed her loss on discrimination.

MTR, YOU BE A SERIAL LOSER, LOST YOUR BET AND WELSHED ON IT, LOST YOUR HOPES FOR THE ELECTION, NOW YOU’VE GOT A INCHOATE RAGE. YOU’RE HOMOPHOBIC BUT YOU PROBABLY HAVE SOME LATENT HOMOSEXUAL TENDENCIES GIVEN YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT MAN ON MAN ANAL SEX.

YOU’RE A SAD EXCUSE FOR A MAN. ANGRY, BITTER, NARCISSISTIC, SELFISH, MYSOGINISTIC AND HAUNTED BY RIGHT WING DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR.

PAY YOUR GAMBLING DEBT IF YOU WANT TO SALVAGE ANY FUTURE FOR YOURSELF.

Le Pan cut and run!!!!! Surrender to the Terrorist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Send Roger to Iraq to win the war!!!!!!!!!! There is no plan, and they plan to have no PLAN!!!!!!!!!!!! If they had a PLAN the enemy would wipe their silly ass all over the desert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OH your Muslim Friends that you all for the Great War support!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please send your money to Jimmy McDermott!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry about posting the whole article but it come off a secure website which you cannot access. Different point of VIEW on what the challenges we face in Iraq. Working on a new plan for Iraq, but not done by the democrats. 11/16/2006 – WASHINGTON — Failure of the coalition and Iraqi government to create a unified, peaceful Iraq would be catastrophic for that country and the region, and would embolden terrorists throughout the world, the directors of the Central Intelligence Agency and Defense Intelligence Agency said here Nov. 15.

Testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee, Gen. Michael V. Hayden, director of the CIA, and Army Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, director of the DIA, said that the coalition presence in Iraq is what’s keeping the country together, and an early withdrawal would cause a significant rise in violence.

“We are all acutely aware that Iraq today is far from peaceful,” General Hayden said during his testimony. “Let me say that no single narrative is sufficient to explain all the violence we see in Iraq today. There remains in Iraq today an active insurgency. There remains in Iraq today a broad and vicious al Qaeda offensive targeting us and innocent Iraqis. In Iraq today there is criminality and lawlessness on a broad scale. In Iraq today there are rival militias competing for power.”

The conflict in Iraq has shifted to become increasingly a sectarian struggle for power, General Maples said. The perception of unchecked violence in Iraq has created an environment of fear and divisiveness, which empowers militias and decreases confidence in government forces, he said.

The only way to deal with the problem of sectarian violence is for the Iraqi government to unite and create a non-sectarian security force and work on national reconciliation, both generals agreed.

“I believe that, in fact, the parties have to be brought together and it has to be a political approach,” General Maples said. “And the government of Iraq has to be in the lead in doing that.”

Enabling Iraq’s leaders to be successful is one responsibility of the coalition, General Maples said, but the coalition must also be forceful with the government and make its expectations known. General Hayden pointed out that the new Iraqi leaders face a complex challenge, as they are all being asked to overcome their personal histories and work together to reach compromises.

“It’s going to require, as General Maples suggests, all the tools we have to motivate them to make decisions that are clearly in their best interest for the long term,” General Hayden said.

The situation in Iraq is grave, and al Qaeda has capitalized on the sectarian environment to increase its attacks, but there are still opportunities for success, the generals both said. An overwhelming majority of Iraqis want to live in peace, General Hayden said, and there have been positive improvements.

The recent verdict against Saddam Hussein, government efforts to move along the de-Baathification process, increased cooperation between Sunni tribes and the Anbar government, and arrest warrants for Ministry of Interior personnel accused of abuses are all signs of progress, General Maples said. The Iraqi security forces also continue to grow and develop capability, he said.

Despite the differences that still separate them, the different factions of Iraqi society did work together to create a constitution that provides the structure for them to settle their differences, General Hayden noted. Iraqi leaders from all factions need to cooperate and fill out the government to fulfill the intent of that document, he said.

Although ultimately, victory in Iraq will have an Iraqi face, not an American face, the coalition presence is still vital right now to ensure stability, the generals said. Withdrawing U.S. troops now would only cause a rise in violence and embolden terrorists throughout the region, they said.

“Failure in Iraq — failure to create a viable Iraqi state — I think, would embolden the worst of our enemies, certainly al Qaeda,” General Hayden said. “It would provide them with a safe haven rivaling the one they had in Afghanistan prior to October of 2001. I think it would also embolden other adversaries in the region, particularly Iran, whom I would suggest to you right now, not totally warranted, seems to be conducting a foreign policy with a feeling of almost dangerous triumphalism. And I think that would make that even worse.”

I see Seattle has made the news headlins all over the country and something to be proud about today. The FOX News’ Hannity & Colmes show covered the behavior of some WSU professors and their “hate speech” targeting students during a peaceful demonstration on border security on the campus Nov. 2. Professor John Streamas called a student a “white (expletive)-bag, and referred to former Secretary of State Colin Powell as “Bush’s house slave.”

Dan Ryder, Eastern Vice Chairman of the Washington College Republican Federation and a WSU student, has filed a complaint with the University’s Center for Human Rights. An interview with the Center’s staff is scheduled for Friday, Nov. 17.

“Taxpayers support academics not some professor’s hate speech. You cannot be a public supported scholar and engage in this type of behavior,” said WSRP Chairman Diane Tebelius. “Professor Streamas has proven that he is unfit to teach students. If the University does not take strong action, it proves that there are different standards applied to students who hold certain political views and that hate speech by sitting professors is acceptable if students don’t share their political views.”

“This type of hate speech is no different than what former professor Ward Churchill said at the University of Colorado when he likened the victims of the World Trade Center attack to Nazi sympathizers,” said Tebelius, “and Ward Churchill no longer has a taxpayer supported job.”

Dan Ryder said the confrontation happened during a demonstration sponsored by the WSU College Republicans on the Glenn Terrell Mall on campus. A chain-link fence had been erected, in Ryder’s words, “as a way to dramatize the issue of border security and national sovereignty.” It was during the demonstration that professors from the Comparative Ethnic Studies Dept. confronted the students including Streamas and Professor David Leonard. Leonard demanded the student identification number from a student who was filming the demonstration, but the student refused.

klake: There are high tech military observation balloons all along the Mexican border. They’ve been there for 15 years or more. They cover the whole border all the way across. They can read the labels on the jeans the illegals are wearing as they cross the border. This whole thing is more disinformation and pre fab BS from the government.

klake: There are high tech military observation balloons all along the Mexican border. They’ve been there for 15 years or more. They cover the whole border all the way across. They can read the labels on the jeans the illegals are wearing as they cross the border. This whole thing is more disinformation and pre fab BS from the government.

Lucy tell us about the little green men in suits and have funny ears. We have not use observation balloons in years, but you might be seeing some today in Salem, Oregon.

“I see Seattle has made the news headlins all over the country and something to be proud about today.”

Um. WSU isn’t in Seattle. In fact, it’s not even in King County. WSU is almost directly south of Spokane.

By the way, you can find a video of the exchange on the internet if you know how to use a search engine. Amazing how the video managed to not capture any of this alleged hate speech (and the version I found was posted on a conservative blogger’s web site).

(Losing to fail to see, hear, or understand. To fail to win.) Joe you lack the understanding of our enemies to know when we are winning or losing this conflict. You fail to see the vision by which we are engaging the enemy to see we are wining this conflict. You are close minded and in constant babbling to hear those who are fighting this war that they are telling you we are winning.

Hey, I’m not the one who thinks sending an inadequate number of soldiers, with inadequate equipment, into the middle of a bloody civil war where they wouldn’t be able to tell friend from foe if they had any friends, and the sole no-bid government contractor is skimming war profits off the top and graft out of the middle, constitutes winning.

“(Losing to fail to see, hear, or understand. To fail to win.) Joe you lack the understanding of our enemies to know when we are winning or losing this conflict.”

That’s a bullshit answer. If I fail to understand something, then explain it to me. Your failure to explain it means that you are the one lacking understanding.

“You fail to see the vision by which we are engaging the enemy to see we are wining this conflict. You are close minded and in constant babbling to hear those who are fighting this war that they are telling you we are winning.”

Well, that’s odd, because the generals testifying before Congress said that things were getting worse in Iraq, not better. Who’s lying, k-lake?

Seems to me that the only “babbling” going on is the babbling of someone who quotes a common and vague dictionary definition for a word rather than trying to define what that word means in terms of facts on the ground.

I hope my party is smart enough to invoke the fairness doctrine. We can not afford the right wing talking heads to run their mouths once we get hit by a terrorist attack. We need to stay on offense and never have to play defense.

31 klake says: … we want the “Plan” Now … Send Roger to Iraq to win the war!!!!!!!!!! — 11/16/2006 at 9:31 pm

Only intelligent thing you’ve ever posted, klake! Who’d you plagiarize it from? How’re YOU GUYS doing in Iraq? Reminds me of an old rabbit legend …

Once upon a time, back in the days of the Wild West, a frontier town was completely taken over by outlaws and riff-raff. There was no law and order. Shootings were a daily occurrence. Bodies lay in the streets. Saloons stayed open 24-7 and the church was turned into a whorehouse. Rustlers terrorized the ranches, and the bank was held up daily. There had been 16 sheriffs but none of them lasted more than two days. Exasperated, the town’s good citizens wrote a letter to the territorial governor. It described the situation and said, “Send the Texas Rabbits! Send the Texas Rabbits!” The governor, after reading the letter, was sympathetic. So he sent one.

“11/16/2006 – WASHINGTON — Failure of the coalition and Iraqi government to create a unified, peaceful Iraq would be catastrophic for that country and the region, and would embolden terrorists throughout the world, the directors of the Central Intelligence Agency and Defense Intelligence Agency said here Nov. 15.”

How’s that working out for YOU GUYS, klake? Let the genie out of the bottle, did you? Can’t get the toothpaste back into the tube? Maybe it’s time to let someone else try.

Rog, I’ve got one of those, but I had to write it myself as an external application. That’s why I’m so jazzed that it looks like the XML works. I can load that in, run it through my filter, and hey presto! All the wingnut spew is reduced to two simple words: “Irrelevant comment.”

College Republicans? Isn’t that the outfit that bilks senior citizens out of their life savings? http://tinyurl.com/6tnzu

“Fund-raising group milks vulnerable senior citizens

“By David Postman and Jim Brunner “Seattle Times staff reporters

“The College Republican National Committee has raised $6.3 million this year through an aggressive and misleading fund-raising campaign that collected money from senior citizens who thought they were giving to the election efforts of President Bush and other top Republicans.

“Many of the top donors were in their 80s and 90s. The donors wrote checks … in at least one case, totaling more than $100,000 — to groups with official sounding-names such as ‘Republican Headquarters 2004,’ ‘Republican Elections Committee’ and the ‘National Republican Campaign Fund.’ But all of those groups, according to the small print on the letters, were simply projects of the College Republicans, who collected all of the checks. And little of the money went to election efforts.

“Of the money spent by the group this year, nearly 90 percent went to direct-mail vendors and postage expenses, according to records filed with the Internal Revenue Service.

“Some of the elderly donors, meanwhile, wound up bouncing checks and emptying their bank accounts. ‘I don’t have any more money,’ said Cecilia Barbier, a 90-year-old retired church council worker in New York City. ‘I’m stopping giving to everybody. That was all my savings that they got.’ … Barbier said she ‘wised up.’ But not before she made more than 300 donations totaling nearly $100,000 this year, the group’s fund-raising records show. Now, she said, ‘I’m really scrounging.’

“In Van Buren, Ark., Monda Jo Millsap, 68, said she emptied her savings account by writing checks to College Republicans, then got a bank loan of $5,000 and sent that, too, before totaling her donations at more than $59,000.

“College Republicans serve as the party’s outreach organization on college campuses. The group has been a starting place for many prominent conservatives, including Bush adviser Karl Rove, anti-tax activist Grover Norquist and former Christian Coalition executive director Ralph Reed. …

“An attorney and adviser to the group defended the fund raising. … ‘There are tens of thousands of very, very satisfied and happy donors that enjoy a relationship with the College Republicans and their fund-raising process.’

“But since at least 2001, some leaders of College Republicans have objected to the tone and targeting of the fund raising done by Response Dynamics, the Virginia company that handles the direct-mail campaign. … ‘We felt their fund-raising practices were deceptive, to say the least,’ said George Gunning, former treasurer of the College Republicans.

“Gunning said he and two other board members fought to cut ties with Response Dynamics but were blocked by other leaders led by Scott Stewart, the chairman of the College Republicans from 1999 to 2003. As chairman, Stewart was the paid, full-time manager of the organization. …

“The board debated the fund-raising practices after the family of an elderly Indiana woman with Alzheimer’s disease demanded that her donations be returned. The woman’s family said it had sent a registered letter asking that she be taken off the mailing list, but the solicitations continued. Only after a newspaper reported on the story did the College Republicans refund $40,000 to the family, according to Jackie Boyle, one of the woman’s nieces.

“‘I think this is a nationwide scam,’ Boyle said on hearing of recent complaints. ‘They’re covering the whole country … they need to be investigated.’

“Stewart is the director of Bush’s Nevada campaign operation, and campaign officials said he would not be available to comment for this story.

“The Washington State Attorney General’s Office received at least six complaints about the College Republicans fund-raising letters from 2000 to 2002 … (that) cited ‘fund raising representations’ and ‘senior exploitation.’ …

“This year, as millions of dollars flowed in, College Republicans falsely claimed in letters that checks were only trickling in and that the group was in a constant budget crisis. And the elderly continued to be a major source of donations. There are far more retired people giving to College Republicans than to any other IRS-regulated independent political committee, IRS records indicate.

“The Times was able to determine the ages of 49 of the top 50 individual donors to the College Republicans. The median age of the donors is 85, and 14 of them are 90 or older. … Donors interviewed this week frequently expressed disbelief when they were told how much they gave to the College Republicans.

“‘That can’t be true,’ said Francis Lehar, a 91-year-old retired music publisher, when he was told records showed he gave the College Republicans nearly $23,000. ‘I have donated to dozens of Republican causes. Some of them might be the Republican Party organizations.’ From January through September, the Massachusetts man wrote 90 checks to the group, records show. ‘It surprises me that it goes to them and not to the other names that they had,’ he said. …

“The [fundraising] letters are computer-generated, personalized form letters, but the recipients often view them as personal correspondence. ‘ … [T]hey would keep saying, “You’ve got to keep on or we won’t be able to keep up with Kerry.” So they kept on me,’ said a retired bookkeeper who was one of the group’s most generous donors. …

“She grew concerned when repeated letters came earlier this year asking for donations for a ‘Republican Headquarters 2004 Membership Card.’ The card was merely a block of text inside a dotted line on the back of the letter. The holder was supposed to cut it out and carry it with her.

“But the letter was infused with urgency. ‘If I do not have your completed RH membership renewal form within the next ten days, your membership will be put on suspension,’ one letter said. ‘President Bush cannot afford your membership and involvement in the Republican Party to be wavering at this crucial time.’ The group wanted a donation of $25 to $500 for the card. … ‘You had to pay something for the membership card,’ the retired bookkeeper said. ‘I sent in four different checks to him and every time he said he didn’t receive them.’ The four checks totaled $1,105. ‘He kept saying he was going to cancel me. He was constantly asking for money.’

“For her and other donors, the mail was part nuisance, part companion. Several spoke of sorting the mail and writing checks almost as their job this campaign year. And many thought their work alone would make the difference in a Bush victory. ‘And they kept telling me I’ve got to do this or we can’t win,’ the retired bookkeeper said. ‘You see, I was the only one. They said the others had quit. I was the only one they were writing to, I thought.’

“The College Republicans had another warning in September 2003, when the Center for Public Integrity, a Washington, D.C.-based watchdog group, issued a report on the explosive fund-raising growth by the College Republicans. The report noted that several elderly donors who were contacted did not appear to know to whom they had given money. …

“[C]ompanies related to the fund raising get most of the money raised by the College Republicans. About $9 million of the College Republicans’ reported spending this year appeared to go into fund-raising expenses, according to a Times analysis of reports filed with the IRS. About $313,000, roughly 3 percent, went for travel, convention expenses and ‘hospitality.’ About $210,000 went to payroll expenses, helping pay for campus organizers who have been drumming up support for the GOP ticket among young people.

“The large amount of money devoted to fund raising, and the small amount for political activities, is unusual among the top ranks of the burgeoning field of so-called 527 independent political groups. Of the $20 million the anti-Bush group MoveOn.org spent, according to its filings, 93 percent went to media, advertising, marketing and polling. …

“Officials of Response Dynamics have publicly described their strategy. ‘Direct mail fund raising means asking for money and asking for it often,’ company President Ron Kanfer wrote in a 1991 article on the art of the pitch. ‘You must literally force them to send money.’

“An August fund-raising letter showed that aggressive approach, telling donors there was a Democratic conspiracy to intercept the committee’s mail: ‘Given what I’ve learned, you and I must take every precaution necessary. Apparently the Democrats don’t have any concern about hurting you, your family or America. Their sole concern is revenge — vengeance — retribution.’

“With the approach of Tuesday’s election, the letters have become even more breathless. Last Saturday, a donor received what appears to be a photocopied handwritten note from the director of one committee: ‘Please understand I have no one else to turn to. This is serious: We will have to close our doors! I need your help now!’ …

“Rove, Bush’s top political strategist, spoke to College Republican leaders during the GOP Convention, and said the group’s organizing was ‘absolutely vital to the election.’ …

“The College Republicans themselves are rarely mentioned in the group’s fund-raising letters. … The focus is on the presidential campaign, congressional races and the constant threat of what they portray as likely liberal victories in November. The letters imply close connections to Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Republican leaders and the party organization. The pitches sometimes promise that special messages will be hand-delivered to Bush or others if they are sent back with a donation.

“Most donors interviewed said they get up to 50 solicitations in the mail each day. That pile can include four or more from the College Republicans. ‘My house looks like a post office, and I’m not exaggerating,’ said Anne Kravic, a retired school-district employee in Parma, Ohio. …

“‘I wouldn’t say that a single week passed I didn’t send something and sometimes twice a week, depending on how serious the situation was according to them,’ she said. Her small monthly pension cannot keep up with the life of a political financier. ‘I’m tired of it. … My bank account has been overdrawn …,’ she said.

“Elliot Baines is an 84-year-old Florida retiree who says he has a hard time just carrying the mail he gets each day now. ‘It’s almost too much for me to handle,’ he said. Baines was surprised to hear he had given more than $63,000 and that it had all gone to College Republicans. He said he was swayed to give, sometimes against his better instincts, by the power of the letters.

“‘I thought if I paid them off once it would send them away, but it just encourages them to send more,’ he said. ‘It is just a rat race in this house to pay off these people and hope that they quit. ‘But they don’t. They keep sending.'”

The Seattle Times published this story on Oct. 28, 2004. For complete story and/or copyright info, see link above!

Roger Rabbit Commentary: What can I say? It speaks for itself. Greedy, selfish bastards! And — according to the article — a whopping 90 percent of the money coerced from these vulnerable elderly “donors” went to the fundraising companies, less than 10 percent to the political activities they thought they were supporting.

The difference between Douglas MacArthur and George W. Bush is that MacArthur had a plan to “return.” MacArthur knew when, where, and how he would “return.” With Bush, just saying “I shall return” IS the plan — and that’s all there is to it.

A concerned Democrat says: I hope my party is smart enough to invoke the fairness doctrine. We can not afford the right wing talking heads to run their mouths once we get hit by a terrorist attack. We need to stay on offense and never have to play defense. — 11/16/2006 at 11:03 pm

Considering that wingnuts have done all the talking for the last 6 years, it’s time for them to shut up and do some listening.

I’ll tell you a very sad thing about whomever takes the supposed reins of power in this country. They get sat down and given a speech like this:

1) 2% of the people control 90% of the wealth. Ever fail to miss this point, and you will be fucked like you have never been fucked before.

2) The United States Industrial Machine (qv: that 2%) needs certain things to survive. Cheap raw materials (i.e. oil) is one, access to markets is another, laws protecting that machine are another. Fail to provide this, and you’re back to point #1.

3) Governments change, people change, that great big tide of history ebbs and flows. The groups from point #1 who enforce point #2 aim to be perpetual. We will work with whomsoever is in government so long as they agree to the basic framework and do their best to keep truly dangerous people away from the levers of power.

I’m sorry it works this way, but that’s how it’s been long before I got here, and it will likely be this way after I’m gone. If things don’t go that way, The People United will find out that capital is fungible and can leave very quickly. You can have a country that is truly free, or you can have a country that is rich. You do not get both. Perhaps they will decide to change the deal that has kept this place rolling for the last 200 years. Good by me. It will in no way shape, or form be painless to do so.

With all those awful things having been said, it still matters. Politics is still about the distribution of power. Politics comes down to two things; money and votes. That 2% will always have more money, life sucks that way. Change enough votes and you can move the body politic anyhow. It is not easy, and it is definitely not free. It is still worth it to do so.

Now Bush is in Vietnam, for God’s sake, saying that there is much to be learned from the war there, but that “It’s just going to take a long period of time for the ideology that is hopeful…to overcome an ideology of hate,” and that “We’ll succeed unless we quit.”

Yes, there are lessons to be learned from Vietnam, but he has not learned a single one of them. We were in Vietnam for almost 30 years, and he thinks that we “lost” because we “quit.” Damn, get the fucking butterfly nets. Everyone should understand this: no matter who is in Congress, we will never leave Iraq while he’s president. And McCain wants to send more troops. I hope Bush does send in even more troops. It won’t work, and more Americans will die, but McCain will have his whole plan for 2008 knocked out from under his sorry ass.

re 44: You are dead wrong about those high tech balloons. But I’ve never seen you let facts get in the way of your opinions and the talking points the right feeds you. This would be a good way for you to break the hold they have on your mind. Fly to Sierra Vista AZ. Look up in the sky and you will see a huge blimp many miles up in the sky. Ask any local what the ballon is for. Ask how many are on the border. You can verify this with your senses. You don’t even have to think .

“11/16/2006 – WASHINGTON — Failure of the coalition and Iraqi government to create a unified, peaceful Iraq would be catastrophic for that country and the region, and would embolden terrorists throughout the world, the directors of the Central Intelligence Agency and Defense Intelligence Agency said here Nov. 15.”

How’s that working out for YOU GUYS, klake? Let the genie out of the bottle, did you? Can’t get the toothpaste back into the tube? Maybe it’s time to let someone else try.

11/16/2006 at 11:25 pm

Rabbit, so…redeploying to wherever is the answer? No one ever accused rabbits of having a high IQ though.

By the way, it looks like both Murtha and Burner have been redeployed!

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