"So don't let these service businesses blow smoke up your ass, they arn't cutting anyones hours from full time to part time, you can't cut hours that you were never giving out."

It's not a question of cutting hours, but dividing those hours. Hiring two people @ twenty hours=no benifits or lunch breaks as oposed to hiring one person @ fourty hours and benifits. Besides you are only picking out one small part of the entire problem, it's more then just benifits.

Cape Coral FL

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Ghost, I would prefer a mature and intelligent discussion over a puerile "battle" to see who has more verbal machismo. Sorry that you see it that way.

Belle Chasse LA

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Remember that commercial they played all the fuking time for the DVR on the DISH system? The battle between two warriors rages from room to room as the DISH client makes popcorn and goes back and sits down?

This is Fun and perf in these fora....

At least this one is on-topic....lol

East Fishkill NY

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"I notice that you reckon we presently are between the selfishness and apathy stages."

Fun, I think it's just a typo....he meant HE was between the selfishness and apathy stage.

East Fishkill NY

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P.s., even if we accept the premise of these stages that all democracies go through, I notice that you reckon we presently are between the selfishness and apathy stages. I'm pretty sure that you said last year we were closer to the end than that, well beyond the apathy stage. What should we conclude from that?

Belle Chasse LA

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I don't care whether it was published in a book, a journal, or as a standalone essay. I just wanted to read the thing to see if it has any substance. What democracies/republics does he discuss? What examples does he give of these stages? What historical evidence does he offer that might be predictive for us? Where's the beef?

You're the one who repeatedly urges us to read this thing, as if you have done so. I can't find it. You have attributed a blurb of it to some 18th century historian named Tytler, but there's no indication that he wrote either the blurb or any larger work from which it was drawn (and the blurb itself is written in a style decidedly unlike anything from the late 18th century).

Can you point us to anything of substance beyond the soundbite in the OP?

Belle Chasse LA

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Nken:

"It's been said before but it's worth repeating. Only in America can a bunch of idiots fight for the rights of the rich instead of the workers..."

Sadly this fight has been going on sense before the first civil war and it is the exact mentality of those in charge of the third world and the leading cause for why the third world cannot develop into consumer nations so others many produce.

Then again, the civil war didn't end of slavery, it only changed the face of slavery... It took the coal miner rebellions to start the ending of slavery in the US. Unions simply are the soft means the public hold to get their their fair share.

If there isn't any pie to be shared, than the investors and the managment should be held legally accountable for theft. After all, they continued business as normal, even after cutting the share of the pie the workers received.

Personally I believe that investors should be able to lose more than the worth of their shares. I say that managment/investors should have to pay the unemployment of the workers they put out of work.

Add some actual risk to investments... Maybe we could get real professional investors back into the market and stop the pollution of the markets by greedy investors who aren't truely invested.

Kinda like how war should be fought. In it for a penny, in it for your life.

Hazle Township PA

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Robert, to righties it's always the unions fault. Upper management can bleed the company dry but it's those damn workers who won't take a pay cut. Why should they? The price of groceries, gas, utilities get cut? No.

It's been said before but it's worth repeating. Only in America can a bunch of idiots fight for the rights of the rich instead of the workers...

Pittsburgh PA

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So a baker in hostess was paid 48,000 in 2005 and took consessions to be paid 25,000 by 2012.

Can anyone actually blame these bakers for striking? (I am sure the righties will) the company leadership made bad choices, where was their concessions? I want to see their pay cuts, the cuts to the payouts for the investors as well

A one way consession isn't consession, it is dictating. This is blatant greed on the part of the investors and managment. Their failure to lead, to take the first devestating cuts and then to continue to lead with the cuts by cutting themselves every time they approached the workers is why this company became worthless.

ht tp://money.cnn.co m/2012/11/16/news/companies/hostess-workers/

Hazle Township PA

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"We are not the ones pissing and moaning over being abused by the evil robber barons."

No, you're afraid of being abused by evil poor people.... much more pathetic.

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