2 Samuel 16:9,11 - "Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? Let me go over, I pray thee, and take off his head...let him alone, and let him curse; for the Lord hath bidden him."

Matthew 7:15 - “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Matthew 24:11 - “…and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.”

Saturday, November 8, 2008

Mac on "Pastoral Abuse" - Part 3, "Gossip and Slander of Women"

In this third article on Mac's 11/5/08 sermon at SWBTS, I wanted to comment on how Mac once again engages in careless gossip as a pastor. And raking women, pastors' wives, through the mud, no less. I'm not sure what it is with Mac feeling the need to throw women under the bus from his pulpit to help make himself look like a brave martyr - perhaps it makes him feel especially powerful, I don't know.

In all my years in churches I have never heard of a pastor attacking women in the pulpit like Mac Brunson does. It really blows my mind! I've never heard a pastor dredge up old stories about church trouble involving deacons and pastors' wives. Can you imagine Vines ever casting a pastors' wife in a negative light? NEVER! But Mac is a different breed for sure. Mac is a hypocrite. Mac loves to be a "gentleman" and escort women and hold their hand up and down the stairs of his platform when they sing a special number, but boy he sure is rough on 'em when he preaches.

I've already beat the dead horse about how Mac slandered Sheri Klouda this past July...and he never has apologized to his congregation for lying to us about Dr. Klouda's testimony in her case...and as far as I know he has yet to contact Dr. Klouda to offer his apologies. By the way, kudos to President-Elect Obama who apologized immediately when he said an offending remark about Nancy Reagan in his first post-election press conference. Oh that Mac Brunson could have just a little bit of the class of Obama in how women are to be treated.

Now Mac travels to SWBTS on 11/5/08 and he decides its time to take a swipe at two pastor's wives from his previous church! He decides to let everyone know that Dr. Truett's wife at FBC Dallas openly opposed Dr. Criswell, and Mac follows that up with a "isn't it interesting how history repeates itself" comment that most assuredly is referring to the opposition that he faced from Mrs. Criswell.

You can listen to this clip below to hear it for yourself.

Its amazing how Mac takes swipes at women from his pulpit - one a seminary professor, and two pastors' wives, which is bad enough...but the comments that he made concerning all three women added absolutely nothing to his sermon. They were gratuitious, vindictive, hurting remarks. His 2 minute story about Sheri Klouda's testimony added nothing to his sermon, in which he just in passing was pointing out lawsuits between believers were a problem in the Corinthian church. He could have said that he believed the Klouda lawsuit to be wrong - quite a few people might agree with him. But to then go beyond that and paint Sheri Klouda as some nut who brought a lawsuit for gender discrimination and then testified under oath that her lawsuit was wrong, is slanderous and hurtful to Dr. Klouda. She believed her lawsuit WAS in accordance with scripture, and contrary to Mac's lie she stated so and gave an explanation to the court. But Mac decided to just flat out lie about her - or perpetuate a lie told him without him checking his facts. What a bully. It sickens me.

Now we come to his comments on Mrs. Truett and Mrs. Criswell. What does it add to his sermon to dredge up history to cast the wives of two famous pastors in a negative light? Would he have done this if Dr. Truett and Dr. Criswell were still alive? Of course not!! He is not man enough!! It will, I believe, be only a matter of time before the bully Mac Brunson says something disparaging about Mrs. Lindsay. I mean she is now deceased, and so his her husband, so if it suits his purposes, why not blame some of his troubles at FBC Jax on Mrs. Lindsay? Its coming, I can assure you.

Since he is so free to talk about women from his pulpit, let's give a little bit of information here about his wife, Ms. Debbie Brunson. Staff members who have left FBC Jax church have reported that she is a gossip and slanderer. She has returned from IMB trustee meetings and said very hurtful, untruthful things about certain people that she has opposed on the IMB board of trustees. Them's the facts, Jack. Check it out. Ask the staff members. So Mac, before you go around throwing stones at women, why not talk to your wife about controling her own tongue. Or don't you know she is gossipping and slandering at the church? And by the way, Mac, don't be afraid to tell people she is on staff! Why can't she be introduced at SWBTS as the "Director of.." whatever her position is? Why don't you have she and Trey on the church website staff directory? Are you embarrassed that they are on staff? Do we have other "Directors" that are not on our staff website?

And isn't it a bit odd that Mac uses an example in his sermon about a backslidden female member of our church that came to him after the service just two weeks ago? (you'll hear it at the end of the clip below). Is that wise? Wouldn't some people in the church know who this woman is ? Can't the guy keep his yapper shut about people he counsels? This is not the first time he has blabbed about his counseling sessions.

So people at FBC Jax...watch your backs. The Brunsons might act like they like you, but don't cross them. Don't say anything they don't like, else you will be on their list and they may talk about you to the staff...and be wary of going to them for any counseling, else you just might find yourself and your problems and your backslidden condition on the Internet in one of Mac's sermons when he preaches out of town! He LOVES to gossip about his church when he goes on his preaching junkets.

51 comments:

Who needs Soap Operas on TV? This stuff blows away most of the intrigue, gossip and slander ... add in back stabbing ... I do not know how preaching gets done now-a-days.

WD, you cut away the last potion of the audio, it goes on to describe the "polka-dots" on the leopard (dead and skinned and possibly stuffed) on PP office wall. Preachers who are big game hunters. Wow!

I am saddened to hear about Mrs. Brunson. Also the resistance Mac received possibly from Mrs. Criswell.

Could it be they were like WD seeing Mac as he truly is? Or they were confused about all the radical changes being brought forth by Mac?

Folks, this beats day time soap opera! Not that I watch TV.

Couple of premonitions on my part. Listening to his sermon by Mac and comments by Anon 12:09 earlier ... I am guessing and would not be surprised if they moved fbcjax from downtown jax to elsewhere. Not sure what will happen to all the buildings.

Looking at what has happened here, I sometimes feel that may be in an ideal world they should run the churches differently.

I honestly feel it is not a good idea for preachers to move from churches to churches every 6 to 7 years. They should learn to serve a life time and retire there.

Also, they should be asked to build up a church from scratch. Not take over old churches and totally transform them to their tastes. Such a waste. It would have been simpler to start a church of their own, rather than tearing down something that was working well.

Sadly, this is going on quite often in this world. Especially when the long term pastors retire.

Two wrongs don't make a right. If its wrong for MB to gossip, as you charge, it is also wrong for you to gossip. You do not have first hand knowledge of anything about the pastor's wife. You base your accusations only on what you've heard. Doesn't that make you just as guilty as MB?

If he doesn't have the common decency to not knock down his previous church and its previouis pastors' wives, then FBC Jax when he finally leaves our church you can bet he will be singing like a canary about the troubles at our church, who caused them, how terrible the pastors' wife was that didn't fully support him (which she DIDN'T - so he will blame his troubles on the deceased pastor's wife no doubt).

Anyone knows you never speak ill of your previous employer - especially to, ahem, thousands and thousands of people, and, ahem, in the pulpit where the gospel is to be preached. But Mac is a new breed for sure. Cut anyone down in the pulpit, act like a bully in the pulpit, say disparaging remarks about your previous church and your CURRENT church when you preach around the country.

Mac, who on earth would want to hire a pastor who views his role as one to proclaim from the pulpit who terrible their congregations are?

Former SWBTS history professor Dr. Leon McBeth, in his book recording the history of the first 100 years of FBC-Dallas, reports that Mrs. Truett was supportive of Dr. Criswell's ministry and that she stated that she would be after the death of Dr. Truett; she realized how difficult it could be to follow the long-tenured pastor for whom the entire city of Dallas stood still upon the news of his death and on the day of his funeral (Dr. Truett, all winter long each winter, gave away many overcoats to folks he met on Dallas' streets without one and he never had any money in his own pockets at the end of the day because he gave it all away to folks in need!). If you know Dr. McBeth, then you know he is an excellent historian who--even if others will dislike the results of it--relies only on what research verifies as fact; I think his statements that Mrs. Truett was supportive can be trusted.

For balance on the rigors of the pastorate these days: info from Guidestone Financial Resources' latest "Well & Good" newsletter (arrived in the mail last week):

"1950's: Protestant clergy had the lowest rate of disease for every major diagnosis, lived longer and were healthier than any other profession.

"1983: Protestant clergy ranked highest in overall work-related stress and next to the lowest in personal resources to cope with that stress.

"1999: Clergy were found to have one of the highest death rates due to heart disease, having a higher risk factor than any other occupation."

The difference over the years?--Guidestone's newsletter doesn't report it, but I don't doubt it (nor will argue with bloggers here who want to). Having all the responsibilities of a pastor without all the authority (delegated, not self-assumed) needed by one is very stressful. Ephesians 4 says that the work of pastors simply is: equipping saints for their works of service. Those saints are to be highly-motivated, without their pastors telling them to be so, because of what the Lord Jesus did for them (at least, those saints confess that He saved them; maybe He hasn't saved some of the unmotivated ones yet). As a minister, I think it'd be great if I simply got to equip the saints as I'm supposed to rather than having to trouble-shoot so many of their relationships and to put out so many brush fires so much of the time (never get to the equipping for service because of all the other non-service junk going on so frequently)!

Question: Why must Deb Brunson take a salary, benefits and vacation pay from us. Can't she trust God to provide for her through her husband's generous compensation and other business incomes?

Can't she serve as a lay person, like Mrs.Rogers, Mrs.Vines, Mrs.Lindsay, Ruth Graham, missionary wives, etc. Mac criticized his congregation for not serving, yet his wife and son won't serve without getting thousands of dollars per month to do so.

Shame on Debbie Brunson for demanding a salary to serve along side her husband and shame on FBC Jax for freely giving her one during tough economic times.

Give it a few years and son #2 will be on staff. Mac has preached recently about how one of the worst things a parent can do is to show favoritism. So Mrs. Brunson will see to it that son #2 has the same opportunities that son #1 has to work in the "family business".

"Actually, I saw the exact same control freak behavior from the leaders at quite a few Arminian seeker megas. They just did it with cheap grace and different methods. The effect was the same. It was: Follow the leaders. Don’t be divisive with disagreement, we want unity in relatinships at all costs and we ruin people who dare say anything negative about the church, lack of correct doctrine, and esp the leaders! Many even had ‘covenants’ one had to sign upon membership promising not to criticize the leaders! Saddleback does this!

Funny how they were totally on board with the CBMW indoctrination. Seems that CBMW can transcend the Calvin/Arminian debate!

There is a control and authority problem on both sides. It is called: Sinful man who has turned the servanthood of the bible into lording it over others for personal gain and fame.

But Calvin as a role model? Calvin as an expert of doctrine? How any Baptist can fall for this, I do not know. Baptizing babies, sacraments, burning heretics, magistrates, state church, compulsory attendance, etc, etc. Please!"

And had it not been for WD shining the light, the son in law and daughter would have already been on staff. And, the FBC Academy, that just adds more opportunity for the family business. And don't those future school age Brunson grandbabies have to be provided for.

Gossipers do not really care about others, especially the ones they're gossiping about. They really care more about themselves. They just want to have juicy information to attract others to themselves.

Perhaps the individuals Debbie Brunson gossipped about are the ones on the IMB that believe she is unqualified to be on the board, as has been discussed in other forums. Seems some believe she is only serving due to influence of PP.

"Gossip itself is defined as sensational facts about someone. A person who is a gossip is one who habitually reveals sensational facts about others. The purpose of gossip is to reveal sensational facts about someone in order to defame that person. In contrast, the purpose of slander is to convey lies about someone in order to defame that person.The idea is to give factual information to someone who will feel privileged to know this new information in order for the hearer to think negatively about the one so gossiped. It gives the listener of this gossip a sense of power particularly over the one gossiped about. The gossiper uses this power of gossip to gain the listener’s attention".

Which category (gossip, defamation or slander) do the remarks Brunson made about the pastors' wives last week and earlier this summer about Klouda fall into?

It's always easy to bring up something about someone who is dead whereby they cannot defend it themselves. Kinda like King James I, who some preachers today claim was a homosexual almost 400 years after he died. He had two wives (one died of course) and several children. His offspring now includes the royal family and Princess Diana's. The cowards do this in an attempt to disgrace the KJV. If they do this to a good King what significance does this have on the average Joe or Mary? God will be their judge. Strange are the ways of men.

Mac threw Criswell under the bus too...he said that the story he heard Criswell tell more than any other was how he was opposed by Truett's wife and the young attorney? Really? In his last days of life when Mac came on the scene he told Mac that story over and over? What does that say about Criswell?

Of course I don't believe it. You can't believe what Mac says when it comes to history. Someone here has already posted that a book documents events at Dallas in the Criswell/Truett days that is not consistent with Mac's events.

But notice how Mac lies:

He used a story told him by a lawyer in lying about Sheri Klouda...

and he used a story told by a deceased pastor to knock down Truett's wife and to take a swipe at Mrs. Criswell.

I know much of happenings at FBCJ. Although I do not attend by choice (mainly because of experience and what I know) I have recently watched two of your TV programs (I won't say services). I have been totally awed at how a man can stand in the pulpit and say in a condemning manner the things that Brunson says and DO THE VERY SAME OR WORSE and people accept him and even applaud him! Worse they give him huge amounts of money! Either they do not know him, at all, or they haven't had the experiences others have, OR THEY ARE INCREDIBLY STUPID! Thank goodness for this blog., and it's honest attempt to expose this man and even this church and their abusive behavior. At least it is an attempt to keep the truth forefront.

WD: I don't think Brunson will attack Mrs. Lindsay. There is NOTHING to attack her about. Mrs. Lindsay was very kind to the Brunsons. Although, I think toward the end possibly she was getting the true picture. The Brunsons did everything possible to "butter her up" so to speak, because they needed her support, in my opinion. But Mrs. Lindsay had spiritual discernment, and who knows what would have come about if she had lived. Brunson did say from the pulpit (after her death) that Mrs. Lindsay had made an appointment to discuss something important with him. No one knows not even Brunson, what it was about. One can only speculate.

You're assuming that Mac is interested in the truth. All it takes is for someone to come up to him and say: "Hey, Mrs. Lindsay didn't like you while she was alive, and she was not in favor of what you were doing here at the church."....and that is all Mac needs to blame her for his problems. He didn't bother checking facts given to him by the lawyer about Klouda (if even the lawyer did give him that information)...my point is, if it suits his purposes 5 year, 10 year, 15 year from now he will run down Mrs. Lindsay IF it suits his purposes, and IF he ever got a hint that she opposed him.

To attack Mrs. Lindsay in this church (or anywhere) would be a "deal breaker" for the Brunsons. Mrs. Lindsay was much loved here and I don't think the Brunsons would dare disparage her. Therefore, I don't think it is in their plan to do so. Besides, what could they possibly say? There will never be another Mrs. Lindsay, or another Dr.Lindsay. This church has certainly seen it's "best days".

He would do it after he leaves (notice he wasn't blabbing about Criswell when he was THERE at Dallas as pastor). He does it AFTER he leaves when he feels the need to rehab his image.

His problems at FBC Jax have NOTHING to do with his own actions or attitudes. That is his warped view. Even the opponents of Watchdog admit the man has made some significant mistakes...but not Mac! He lives in an alternate, parallel universe where the pastor just isn't capable of being the cause of strife in the church...its Satan, bloggers, anonymous emailers, and deacons without a backbone...those are the problems in the church to Mac. Even when he talked about Gilyard to the SBC Today interviewer in February he was speaking about Gilyard as some sort of pastor that is suffering and going through pain.

It still blows my mind that he got up in the pulpit at SWBTS chapel and gossiped and disparaged two pastor's wives and dredged up the ugly aspects of the past of FBC Dallas. I don't see how any of that helps future pastors. Mac's disdain for lay people is so obvious. We've felt his wrath and disdain for us for 2 1/2 years now. Even his book "Why Churches Die" is a book explaining how many ways lay people can screw up a pastors plans at a church.

It never crosses Mac's mind that a pastor himself, his attitude, his greed, his anger, his preoccupation, his wife, anything about the pastor could ever possibly cause a problem in a church. Its always the lay people. As Fred Luter says: "devilous deacons", "treacherous trustees", etc. etc.

Fred needs to add a few of these to his long list: "pompous preachers", "angry apologists", "greedy gospel preachers"...

WD: 9:25 You are right. Point well taken. It is dangerous to oppose the Brunsons. Don't look for help from your fellow church members. They will pass you by and let you bleed to death before they will admit anything wrong at that church. How spiritual. Makes one want to be a member and give lots of money, doesn't it? I would sooner take my chances at a "snake farm".

Mac should not complain about "devilous deacons", and "treacherous trustees" or "lying lay people",. He has the deacons and trustees "in his pocket". And as it appears the lay people are just gullible followers. So what's his complaint? He is still taking in the money isn't he? And they are still in their mansion, "grinning from ear to ear. Isn't there more the church can do for them to make them more "comfortable"? Possibly another two weeks off will help with pay of course. And the church will be paying thousands of dollars for substitute preachers while they are gone.

Perhaps a large raise, after all the cost of living is going up, and their cars are getting another year older.

Does the church pay for their lawn care, and any upkeep on the mansion? If not why not do that? . It's important that they be paid for "everything" and do "nothing". The church could hire someone to be in charge of "walking the dogs", when the Brunsons are at the church. But then how much time are they really AT THE CHURCH? Does the church pay for the River Club and the Deerwood club membership fees and expenses incurred through entertaining and family use? That would be a good use for "tithes and offerings" of sacrificing members, paying for "club" dues. God would "honor" that. Especially when many members are losing jobs and trying to stay above water financially. You are already paying for a marketing firm and an advertising agency in Atlanta. Whoever, heard of a church needing to "Market Salvation". But then this church isn't about Salvation anymore is it? On and on and on and on! All of the above are just helpful suggestions, don't you know. You think this is silly. You should be in the shoes of the members that are not happy with Mac and Co, but are stuck paying for this fiasco. Many people are getting tired of trying to pay for and "keep the church open", waiting for the Brunsons to MOVE ON, to some church or maybe The SBC. As you can tell from the amount of money NOT COMING IN. If you deacons and trustees allow him to put you in debt, borrow money, move the church, sell off the bldgs., etc. then you deserve the disdain you are getting.

I have observed the congregation give Mac standing ovations, when making some "generic" remarks on one subject or another. I have seen them shout "amen" to comments Mac makes when he is accusing members of the same things he is guilty of. It seems these are the "gullible" that WD refers to. I sit shocked as these gullible "swallow" these words as preaching Gods Word. I wonder if these are the same people that were in a Lindsay church? If so how do they justify the abusive preaching of Brunson? It is truly a mystery. Or are these "gullible" so desperate for a social meeting place and for acceptance into a "club" environment by their peers, that they will support anyone in the pulpit. The "gullible" seem to have no convictions. I have heard it said "if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything". I guess that is true when one has no standard, and no convictions.

I have observed the congregation give Mac standing ovations, when making some "generic" remarks on one subject or another. I have seen them shout "amen" to comments Mac makes when he is accusing members of the same things he is guilty of. It seems these are the "gullible" that WD refers to. I sit shocked as these gullible "swallow" these words as preaching Gods Word. I wonder if these are the same people that were in a Lindsay church? If so how do they justify the abusive preaching of Brunson? It is truly a mystery. Or are these "gullible" so desperate for a social meeting place and for acceptance into a "club" environment by their peers, that they will support anyone in the pulpit. The "gullible" seem to have no convictions. I have heard it said "if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything". I guess that is true when one has no standard, and no convictions.

I heard an unusual comment from Mike Huckabee when he spoke here. He said something to the effect that all humans have intrinsic worth, and value, that they are all important. Did Mac pick up on that? He alluded to the proposition that the elderly will be done away with when it suits the government purposes. Imagine EVERYONE has some worth even the sorry old bloggers that are not yes men or women. I bet Mac did not agree with that comment as it places some relevance on us who believe he is not the one who should be pastoring at FBCJ. Mike stresses that each person who is saved is part of the body of Christ. I would say not just the YES men. Should not this intrinsic value also be applied to the people who have been forced out of service or even entirely out of the church. Does that intrinsic value extend to ones who disagree with the preacher, but are stabbed in the back by the "yes men" he dispatches to get rid of them, while he hides behind same yes men so he can continue to look like a preacher.

March on, march on, you bloggers as we have been justified by Mike Huckabee whether he knows it or not. Sometimes you get the truth out of a politician when you won't get it from a preacher. So sad.

With regard to DB writing a book, I would assume that she will. Just look to Bellevue and the Gaines if you want to see our future. While our church was once unique, as was Bellevue, with the new "pastors" (and their family members) on staff we're pretty much all the same. ONE GREAT BIG BUSINESS SO KEEP ON GIVING. Probably sharing the same marketing firms.

I think I know how the Democrats have taken over the country again. It might be that they are of the same mentality that follow mega church preachers, while throwing money at them. These gullible followers believe everything that is told to them.

After listening to Dr. Brunson smear the reputations of two of the most respected women in SBC history, I am reminded of a line from a popular movie and with some editing it goes something like "Dr. Mac Brunson has lost the spirit of his church and her people and that is a tragedy. Dr. Mac Brunson lost the spirit of his church and her people because he had no compassion. He lost the spirit of his church and her people because he had no honor, and God was watching."

PS...what is up with Gina Ford's most recent blog on FBC Jax website...it references a YouTube video asking what if we marketed people like Starbucks markets coffee. After the YouTube video there are others available at the bottom for all to see such as "The Rolling Stones", MMA "Tapout" Crew and a few more...unbelievable! You can access this on FBC Jax website!!!...Communications Director er..ok..

I know Anon, I just don't get it. This guy is a loose cannon. I mean he's worse than Joe Biden. There's no telling what the guy is going to say when he's on the road. To speak so ill of his previous church, and the two previous pastors' wives is such a disgrace.

I saw Gina Ford's blog entry, and I just don't get it. Its not funny, and it makes light of churches who do preach the bible.

You said it, discernment seems to be in short supply over there at the church. Big time amateur hour for sure.

QUOTE BY DR.DOG "I saw Gina Ford's blog entry, and I JUST DON'T GET IT. Its not funny, and it makes light of churches who do preach the bible." Dr.Dog "THAT'S IT"!!Brunson and his crew are not concern about Christ and Preaching Biblical truth.That why I call him a CHARLATAN .The mission on promoting Jesus is not the agenda it is promoting himself for personal gain and notoriety. Dr.Dog any preacher that takes(robs)from a Church several hundred-thousand's of dollars a year in salary and perks and spends countless other money's on refurbishing rooms and other amenities for himself and his family and his animals among other indiscretions IS THE SIGN OF A CHARLATAN plain and simple.That why the things that he continues to do bewilders you. Worst and worst Dr.Dog worst and worst.Unless Brunson changes you have not seen anything yet.Brunson is your classic WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING!!

"I ran across this video this week and I loved it! It really makes you think about how we come across to others as Christians. Change is needed…the question is, will we be part of it or will we resist? The Bible tells us in Luke 14:23, “The Lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.” How compelling do you think church is today in our culture? It’s definitely something to think about…."

This blog is authored by Richard Riesing. You can find out more about him here. Here is a short into on him:"So who is Richard Reising Anyway?Richard Reising is a guy who’s passionate about changing the way the world sees the church. Some people call him a church marketing and branding expert. Others pin him down as a great author. Bottom line: Richard is a marketing phenom who has the heart of a pastor, for the pastor.

Where did it all start, you ask? After many years as a marketing executive in the corporate world, God interceded and took Richard on a different path. In 1995, Richard received a life's calling and new reality that changed everything. While on a mission trip in Mexico, God cornered him and revealed a life's purpose that would be to change the way the world looked at Christians--church by church--heart by heart. God began to reveal that the marketing principles he knew so well were actually often biblical; God was not only creator, but also the greatest marketing executive out there.

So what happened? God poured a vision into Richard’s heart; a vision of using these marketing principles to help the church reach the hearts of media-saturated America. Richard responded by forming three companies: Artistry Marketing, Perpetua Technologies, and BrandFusion."

I would let the readers decide where fbcjax is heading now. God bless us.

In that video, they do not give coffee at first (but they do at the end), but ask the newcomers to fill out forms.

In Fbcjax, I am sure they are greeted well and the first thing they hear of any service is the beautiful music of Choir and Orchestra. The singing is always glorifying Our Lord Jesus Christ. What more can we give to newcomers besides good preaching.

It's my observation that more than preaching being done at fbcjax now, it's the music that is saving fbcjax currently. Sadly, that too is being changed.

About Me

We're small, insignificant, and harmless. But we have a loud, piercing bark that seems to annoy those in mega churches the most. Not Kool-Aid drinkers, only fresh, filtered water, please; with Grape or Cherry flavoring from Walmart. "Let him alone; God hath bidden him to speak:"