If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Armour Built On Torso vs Removable Armour - What Are Your Feelings?

This year, I've noticed a trend of making an entirely new torso for a figure instead of making removable armour. Off the top of my head, we have the following from this year alone:

- Lizard Man
- Mara
- Squeeze
- Huntara

In the past, they did Ram-Man that way as well.

How do you guys feel about that?

My personal opinion is that these figures look amazing, but I find it disappointing because it doesn't allow the bodies to be re-used for future MOTUC figures or for customs.

That new snakeman torso Squeeze has could make some AWESOME Snakeman army members...if his chest armour wasn't a part of his chest.

Lizard Man's skinny buck would be a great base to make some teenage MOTUC characters...if his "vest" wasn't sculpted on.

A bigger buck for Ram Man would have been awesome to make General Tataran and other larger characters.

I'm really confused by the decision to make an entirely new torso as opposed to a new armour piece. Doesn't that cost them more tooling dollars? I'm also a person who likes to buy multiples for possible custom figures. Squeeze's new body would have been really sweet for more Snakemen figures, but I have no use for extras of him now and only want one for my collection.

I have a feeling others may feel the same, which could generate fewer sales. For me, the best part of the MOTU and PoP toy lines were that you could remove the armour and accessories and make other awesome, custom figures. That's been one of the best parts of this line, for me. Mattel even delayed the start of the MOTUC line in 2008 when they found out the armour was not removeable.

It's obviously way too late to change any of the characters I mentioned above, but how would you like to see the future MOTUC figures be made? Do you want removable armour, sculpted on armour or does it not matter to you?

Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.

This is not a criticism of the OP-- more like the entire fanbase. I want to point out that a huge controversy in the fanbase has been the "fat armor" look. In one way, it is a sideeffect of having an armor layover rather than sculpted directly and in another way it was due to the back tab decision.

Either way, it seems to be the trend of this fanbase that when we ask for something (less fat looking figures, a 200x head pack, etc) and when we get it, we are still displeased and want it another way.

Personally, I've had no problems with their decisions thus far. There are some figures who need removable armor (He-Man, MAA, Army builders) and some who don't (Lizard Man, Ram Man etc).

The only ones that strike me off the bat as being bad decisions were Rio-Blast and Galactic Skelly.

If it is actually armour or clothes like mara I prefer it removable. In cases of it being their body like Tung Lashor I like that it's a sculpt.

At the end of the day I prefer whatever looks best for the figure it is, so if a sculpt on Lizard Man looks better than had it been removable, I'm ok with that. I think maybe it could have been removable and am unsure why it's a sculpt but I trust them.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Tarquinius

This is not a criticism of the OP-- more like the entire fanbase. I want to point out that a huge controversy in the fanbase has been the "fat armor" look. In one way, it is a sideeffect of having an armor layover rather than sculpted directly and in another way it was due to the back tab decision.

Either way, it seems to be the trend of this fanbase that when we ask for something (less fat looking figures, a 200x head pack, etc) and when we get it, we are still displeased and want it another way.

Personally, I've had no problems with their decisions thus far. There are some figures who need removable armor (He-Man, MAA, Army builders) and some who don't (Lizard Man, Ram Man etc).

The only ones that strike me off the bat as being bad decisions were Rio-Blast and Galactic Skelly.

I like the way you think. I believe they are doing their best and ultimately agree there could be places where it seems the wrong choice, but I still love the figures. Yes, I'd have prefered Galactic Skelly being sculpted on. Rio I dont know the problem with him other than his overlay was way to soft.

This is not a criticism of the OP-- more like the entire fanbase. I want to point out that a huge controversy in the fanbase has been the "fat armor" look. In one way, it is a sideeffect of having an armor layover rather than sculpted directly and in another way it was due to the back tab decision.

Either way, it seems to be the trend of this fanbase that when we ask for something (less fat looking figures, a 200x head pack, etc) and when we get it, we are still displeased and want it another way.

Personally, I've had no problems with their decisions thus far. There are some figures who need removable armor (He-Man, MAA, Army builders) and some who don't (Lizard Man, Ram Man etc).

The only ones that strike me off the bat as being bad decisions were Rio-Blast and Galactic Skelly.

To be fair about the "fat figures", customizers have shown how they could be made slimmer via tab placement and other methods, while still making them removable.

What controversy is there with the head pack? The only thing I've seen mentioned is that people wish Roboto was an entire new figure vs a head because of the differences between the MOTUC and 200X design of his character, plus the MOTUC figures' torso is cracking and a new figure would help fix that. I haven't seen any negative comments unless I skipped over them. Most people seem pretty excited about the 200X sub. *shrugs*

Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.

To be fair about the "fat figures", customizers have shown how they could be made slimmer via tab placement and other methods, while still making them removable.

What controversy is there with the head pack? The only thing I've seen mentioned is that people wish Roboto was an entire new figure vs a head because of the differences between the MOTUC and 200X design of his character, plus the MOTUC figures' torso is cracking and a new figure would help fix that. I haven't seen any negative comments unless I skipped over them. Most people seem pretty excited about the 200X sub. *shrugs*

Ha! Maybe I skipped over the positive ones.

I don't know the day of Toyfair as I watched the forum everyone seemed upset that it was the exclusive, about the selection, about the number of heads, about what could have been done instead etc etc.

And actually, the only fixes I saw made the armor unremovable...but maybe you know of a different fix? If so, I would love to hear about it.

This year, I've noticed a trend of making an entirely new torso for a figure instead of making removable armour. Off the top of my head, we have the following from this year alone:

- Lizard Man
- Mara
- Squeeze
- Huntara

In the past, they did Ram-Man that way as well.

How do you guys feel about that?

My personal opinion is that these figures look amazing, but I find it disappointing because it doesn't allow the bodies to be re-used for future MOTUC figures or for customs.

That new snakeman torso Squeeze has could make some AWESOME Snakeman army members...if his chest armour wasn't a part of his chest.

Lizard Man's skinny buck would be a great base to make some teenage MOTUC characters...if his "vest" wasn't sculpted on.

A bigger buck for Ram Man would have been awesome to make General Tataran and other larger characters.

I'm really confused by the decision to make an entirely new torso as opposed to a new armour piece. Doesn't that cost them more tooling dollars? I'm also a person who likes to buy multiples for possible custom figures. Squeeze's new body would have been really sweet for more Snakemen figures, but I have no use for extras of him now and only want one for my collection.

I have a feeling others may feel the same, which could generate fewer sales. For me, the best part of the MOTU and PoP toy lines were that you could remove the armour and accessories and make other awesome, custom figures. That's been one of the best parts of this line, for me. Mattel even delayed the start of the MOTUC line in 2008 when they found out the armour was not removeable.

It's obviously way too late to change any of the characters I mentioned above, but how would you like to see the future MOTUC figures be made? Do you want removable armour, sculpted on armour or does it not matter to you?

personally, i agree.

in general, i don't totally dislike the mentioned figures - well, with the exception of lizard man, who also lacks of ab crunch articulation -
but i would have preferred the armors being separate parts (also, i'm not a great fan of snake armor he-man glued on armor, to be honest):
to me removable armors and accessories are a huge part of "motu factor".

I prefer the figure to look good over swappable parts. For me, I wish we could retroactively go back and sculpt more unique torsos. And gauntlets. And boots.

Plus, the examples listed
- Mara and Huntara- none of the standard females in the line have swappable armor. This is not a new thing.
- Lizard Man- with that neck, no other character can use that smaller torso. Being small, no one else in the line can use his armor. Making it one piece make him look good and saved precious tooling for other parts/characters.
- Squeeze- Cost cutting had to happen somewhere to pay for those arms. None of the existing snake torso scale patterns match Squeeze's scale pattern well. So I imaging it was a toss up between making the figure look good vs. going with removable armor on a good enough torso. With the weight of those arms, I also imagine the arm socks may be designed differently to support them. And the vintage toy didn't have removable armor due to the arm gimmick.

- Mara and Huntara- none of the standard females in the line have swappable armor. This is not a new thing.

None of the previous female figures had sculpted on clothing. They were always separate pieces that could be removed by heating up the figure. This allows for creating custom figures by mixing and matching parts. Mara specifically, I was hoping for a two-in-one figure like Queen Marlena. If her top was removable, I would have been able to make her one piece bathing suit by combining it with Queen Marlena's tunic (which I have multiples of) and I may have been able to make her robes out of a spare Marlena dress (with tweaking, of course). All of those possibilities are gone because her outfit is sculpted on. The best I could do is possibly make her one-piece outfit by puttying up her stomach and painting it or something. It seems more complex.

Originally Posted by Tarquinius

And actually, the only fixes I saw made the armor unremovable...but maybe you know of a different fix? If so, I would love to hear about it.

I just remember seeing them as they were posted. Some people trimmed things, cut things, there were those who just cut them down and glued them, but there were removable options still. I think they're posted in the customs section still. I think Crespo did up a drawing showing where the tabs should be located to make the figure slim. The "fat figues" was only a problem for a year or so. We never had that problem before. Frankly, I think it was a Rueben issue as we never had it in the line before he was on Matty's team.

Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.

Removable armor equals variety and customization options. Stinkor, for example, looks AWESOME without his armor (he turns into this savage skunk barbarian). Demo-Man looks great without his tunic, but with the shoulder armor still on (very Frazetta-Esque). So I prefer removable, I just want ti to be good removable.

I love the sculpted on armor and I hope they dont change it (not that they even could at this point). With Skele-tubby, its just a painful figure to look at (and is still available on Matty Collector over 6 months later) for myself. The only new figure that I wouldnt mind with removable big armor is Blast Attack and thats it. I think more people will talk about how figures like Seahawk, Hydron, Blade, Skele-tubs, and Rio Blast were missed out would-be favorites had Ruben dealt with the armor better

10-15-2011 1:30pm Eastern
The MOTUC line and all its fans were taken for the ass

If the figure is like Dragstor, I prefer a new torso to a Fat Albert armor. I would have preferred a New torso for Sea Hawk if they couldn't have made the armor tighter. But for the most part I'm in favor of the removable armor, just on a figure by figure thing like Dragstor, it should be a new torso.

NA Skeletor should have had a new torso if they were just gluing the armor on anyway.

After the following figures came out so bloated-looking- Hydron, Sea Hawk, Fisto (to an extent), Snake Face, NA Skeletor, Rio Blast, etc- I really wouldn't care if the switch to permanent armor for most figures was made if it meant a slimmer, more lean and mean looking action figure. I mean, it was fun when I was a kid to take the armor off, put it back on... but for Classics, I don't ever really swap armor pieces or create customs with these figures. I have not and probably never will take Mekaneck's armor off and put it on Blade... so if their armor were permanently attached, all the better IMO. I can't remove Teela's tunic and put it on Catra, so it's kinda the same thing.
I guess figures should be reviewed on a case by case basis- is there need for this figure's armor to ever come off? Is it going to be packed in with different armor for alternate looks or is there a variant on the horizon where parts could be swapped? But over all, it's hard to argue- the built-on armor looks pretty great! I wish all figures could look as trim as, let's say Dekker (whose armor you CAN remove), but it doesn't always work for whatever reason.

Mattel is probably thinking in the short term since the line is ending. It would make sense if the line would continue for several more years. Hoping we do get more but maybe theyre just cutting cost to ensure they finish the vintage line.

Part of the fun of MOTU has always been the ability to swap things around. If none of the figures had swappable parts it would be less fun, but at the same time, the armor should be handled on a case by case basis. Some can have removable armor and look great, but there are instances when removable armor, or removable armor that's glued on, has really hurt the figures.

I personally like the clothing being extra pieces when possible because I think it looks better - with very few exceptions sculpted on clothes always look sculpted on to me, especially now figures have more and more points of articulation to further ruin the illusion (take a look at the new RAH stuff with their ab crunch mid-way down their shirts) - I don't personally require them to be swappable however because I rarely change the figure from how it looks when it comes out of the packaging (and NECA for instance have done some great sculpted on clothing).

With Lizard Man and Sssqueeze it seems that we've gotten sculpted on armor just out of necessity - specifically Lizard Man's neck and Sssqueeze's arm necessitating a now upper torso piece so surely it's cheaper to just make one piece than a new torso and some new armour - and as a complete undermining of the previous paragraph, I hadn't noticed that Huntara's top WAS sculpted on.