Gilgamesh is not an 'interpretation' it is the original story that the bible has plagiarized - it is way older than the bible. It is sad that so many
souls are lost in illusion, filtering reality through the bible instead of learning reality and seeing if it matches with what the bible says.

Through the analysis of Gilgamesh tale that I gave and the actual Noah's ark found and confirmed officially in the mid 1980's....The Gilgamesh version
is shown to be completely ridiculous. I will provide a summary for it.
-------------------------
Here is the crux

There are some big issues with the Epic of Gilamesh account:
- the dimensions of the boat being 200x200x200 feet (unseaworthy cube)
- Building time to make boat 100 years for Noah versus 7 days for Gilgamesh
- Material the boat roof was made out of, wood for Noah versus slate for Gilgamesh (which would make the boat top heavy and further unseaworthy)
-------------
Considering the facts that Noah's Ark has already been discovered as shown in that website.
And this Video

Do you need me to post up again the video proving the universal flood again too?
---------------
Autowrench then replied with this post which had various articles saying
that the ark discovery in 2008 was a fake. And that

There was a Flood, and there was a vehicle, not made of wood, and no animals were on board, but their DNA was.

--------------
I replied back in two posts to autowrench with this post
1post 2:

I haven't had a chance to have a good look at you Noah's Ark links yet but I have to say the story of Gilgamesh seems to grow more and more ridiculous
the more I hear about it.

So if no animals were on the unseaworthy top heavy cube 'ship' but just DNA then the questions have to be asked about these 'gods' described as acting
like 'whipped dogs' when the water came down:
- how did they go about retrieving this DNA from all the animals (both male and female)?
- did they have electricity and freezers on this cube ship in order to preserve the DNA from destruction?
- Seeing that all the animals died in the universal flood so no wombs of females animals could be used to produce the new lot of animals from
combining the DNA into an implantable zygote, what kind of fancy science lab did they bring with them using techniques that are not even possible to
us now?

Please explain?????

and

I reviewed all the articles you posted on Noah's Ark ....it is clearly apparent you never even watched the 37 minute video I posted of Ron
Wyatt discovery that was extremely thoroughly analyzed in the mid 1980's and the evidence was so convincing and overwhelming the Turkish authorities
conducted their own investigations which culminated in them turning the Ron Wyatt site into a National Park and tourist destination named after the
Ark in June 21 1987.

Next time if you are going to post some information about Noah's Ark it is best to learn which site the discovery was actually made at, you are using
some expedition example from 2008ish on the actual Mt Ararat proper. This is neither the time when the ark discovery was made (more like 30 years
earlier by Ron Wyatt) or the location of it.

I suggest you review the video I posted and comment on that rather than instantly think it must be false because it would disprove your entire belief
system and thus only perform a simple google search with words like 'Noah ark discovery fake' to try prove your position.

--------------------------
I suggest you watch the Sodom and Gomorrah videos I posted as well where you can actually see the clear evidence of pure molten sulfur balls....the
plain evidence is right there! Your stance that the stories in the bible such as these that I am talking about are nothing but myth is absolutely
ridiculous

I have posted up videos that show that there was a universal flood with all the geological evidence confirming that (if you didn't watch the video
because you are scared to then that is your problem)

So then we have to go through the flood stories. If Gilgamesh was true then why explain it in a way that not only made less sense than Noah's version,
it made no sense and would have been impossible to do scientifically in recreating the animals from DNA.

I suggest you actually watch the video I posted up next time (just like autowrench) before commenting. The bible says that it came to rest on the
Ararat mountains....there are thousands of mountains that make up the Ararat mountains. There is no need for an 'expedition team' to go out trekking
to the site of Ron Wyatt's discovery, there are fully made roads right to where it is. Pay some actual courtesy next time in watching the video I
posted rather than posting information that is totally irrelevant and just making you look silly.

I'm going to tell the truth and say I didn't really watch it because it was absolutely tedious, however, I did look through it and it was saying
bible verses and talking about an old piece of metal found, and a house of Noah, which the video I posted exposed it as a fake.

Your video didn't expose anything I posted as a fake....they are all at totally different locations. Skip the first 4:30min of the video then watch
everything after that.....NO SKIPPING or only paying half attention

Sure, there was aluminum and they found cat hair in there. It is still impossible for every animal that exist to be put in there. There are many
problems with the Noah's Ark story [1]. The story of a global flood is all around the
world, why refer to a bible? [2]

Here is a more OLDER and INTERESTING video about the ORIGINAL so-called 'noah' ark story:

Midianites were killed because of the damage they had caused Israel and they posed a threat in the future. The virgin girls though could be safely
assimilated into Israel including through marriage so there was no need to pursue something that resulted in the deaths of all humans and animals.

Why did God order the rape of the enemy’s women? (Deut. 21:10-14)

The shaving of the head, trimming her nails, changing her clothing and allowing her to mourn for a month was to help in the shedding of her former
identity and to make her temporarily unattractive to her captor so he would think seriously before marrying her. Captive women could be assimilated
into Israel through marriage and they were to be treated with respect, not as sexual objects to be raped.

Why would God require a woman to marry her rapist? (Deut 22:28,29).

This law sounds to modern readers as though it punishes the female victim by forcing her to marry the man who raped her. However, the intent is to
make the man responsible to support her for the rest of her life. Once she was no longer a virgin, it would be difficult for her family to find a
husband for her. Comparison with Exodus 22:16-17 indicates that while the girl would have the right of marriage to the man and he would be required to
pay the bride-price in any case, her family was not required to give her to the man in marriage if they did not approve. View the story from Genesis
34 to further expand on this idea.

Such an act against a woman was going to set a man back massively financially with the bride-price he would be up for then the need to support her for
the rest of her life. The woman could refuse marriage of course but the whole process provided huge disincentives for a man to ever consider raping a
woman. Just like repayments of debts, the best social approach was to build in well defined preventative measure to stop acts like bankruptcy and rape
occurring in the first place. If they did occur then appropriate penalties and social safety nets were put in place for all relevant parties.

When the event occurred I was barely starting school and it didn't occur in my country so I can't say I investigated it too much at the time!

During high school though, when I was about 15 one of the ex-members of Koresh's group gave a talk for about an hour to my class. From my memory of
the occasion he had left Koresh's group before any of the Waco thing broke out but lost heaps of his friends there. He talked about how he was led
into this offshoot movement by David who was very charismatic, persuasive, spoke with authority and seemingly knew his bible well. Other than those
details I can remember nothing really comes to mind. The guy ended up leaving Koresh's group so he must have had some problems with him but I can't
remember what.

Other than that the only thing I know about Waco is from 2 main places that I have read on it. One was an article or testimony (something of that
nature) to do with a guy involved with the siege saying that he witnessed other agents shoot at the government guys around the windows. Also him
mentioning some comments from a few guys involved in the siege about how they were going to get them and the kind of hatred expressed towards them. I
will have to try and dig up where I found this information from about 3 years ago. The other source is from the SDA pastor Bill Hughes who wrote about
it in his book.

I don't agree with the theology of Koresh or the need to have your own offshoot group and compound.

My personal opinion is that, anyone who opposes the papacy and keeps the seventh-day Sabbath can expect this kind of treatment against them from their
governments during the tribulation period. If you look at websites talking about SDAs one of their favorite words to brand them is a 'cult' or 'sect'
as well.

Lets have a little look at the training of the President in charge at the time Bill Clinton:
- Georgetown University (main hot bed of Jesuit control in America)
- Rhodes Scholarship to Oxford University (read 'the Anglo-America Establishment' to find out what that means)
- Yale University (decent indicators he was a member of the Yale only Skull and Bones Club)
- The Bilderberg Group
- Trilateral Commission
- Council on Foreign Relations (American Illuminati)

I think it is fair to say that with his background it is screaming out that he was taking orders from the Jesuits and Illuminati. Or if he was a
Jesuit himself which is what Bill Hughes seems to suggest then his orders against them would just be an expression of his own hatred towards them.
Waco was a taste, and I expect this for the future trouble ahead:

Those who honor the Bible Sabbath will be denounced as enemies of law and order, as breaking down the moral restraints of society, causing anarchy
and corruption, and calling down the judgments of God upon the earth. Their conscientious scruples will be pronounced obstinacy, stubbornness, and
contempt of authority. They will be accused of disaffection toward the government.—The Great Controversy, 592 (1911)

All who in that evil day would fearlessly serve God according to the dictates of conscience, will need courage, firmness, and a knowledge of God
and His Word, for those who are true to God will be persecuted, their motives will be impugned, their best efforts misinterpreted, and their names
cast out as evil.—The Acts of the Apostles, 431, 432 (1911).

When the protection of human laws shall be withdrawn from those who honor the law of God, there will be, in different lands, a simultaneous
movement for their destruction. As the time appointed in the decree draws near, the people will conspire to root out the hated sect. It will be
determined to strike in one night a decisive blow, which shall utterly silence the voice of dissent and reproof.

The people of God--some in prison cells, some hidden in solitary retreats in the forests and the mountains--still plead for divine protection, while
in every quarter companies of armed men, urged on by hosts of evil angels, are preparing for the work of death. It is now, in the hour of utmost
extremity, that the God of Israel will interpose for the deliverance of His chosen. Source: The
Great Controversy - Chapter 40 'God's People Delivered' p 635

When the Government is willing to shot their own guys just to try to blame in on a group to make out that the others started it then you know what to
expect from the media working with the government. When they use CS gas which is banned even in use for war against civilian women and children you
know what kind of hatred and spirit leads them.

The dragon made war with the women, they that keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus.

The guy ended up leaving Koresh's group so he must have had some problems with him but I can't remember what.

Probably the part where the men would bring their wives to Koresh so he could "bless" them in his bed. The ones that got suckered by him obviously
didn't know their own bibles that well or they would have known:

Matthew 24:23-28

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise
and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For
as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the
eagles will be gathered together.

Or known that by allowing him to bang their wives they were causing their wives to commit adultery. When he started all that "I am Jesus" bit my
first reaction would have been to laugh and then tell him to piss off.

I haven't looked into the story enough to know what about him is true or slander. I know the SDA church denounced his group and had barred him and I
also have a strong feeling that the people in the compound didn't deserve what they got from law enforcement.

Brother, can you post a link or description of the events described in revelation and Daniel. Its really confusing for me as I have heard many
opinions, and im not interested in opinion, just the facts.

The modern interpretation of Daniel and Revelation is to see them as rhetoric to deal with the issues of the times when they were written, to squelch
what the writers saw in their day as heresies that were threatening the well-being of their respective religious movements.
One rhetorical method was to tell stories and in these stories, things progress in a sequence, as any story will, with a plot. The fact that there is
a story-line is not an indication to take it literally where one thing is leading off into the future as if it was making predictions. Rather it is
stating the situation in the present but with a device that inherently seems to be following a time-line from the past into the present and onward
into the future.

What events do you want to know specifically....what specific passages....giving you description of all of Daniel and Revelation is a huge undertaking
and if that was what you really wanted then I would just refer you on to some books and from trusted sources to read instead.

I will try post a couple of short thoughts on the Yahweh Dragon idea so far. I have not done much reading on the words like 'El' or 'Yahweh' and
all there appearances in the Bible before (this kind of thing might take me a number of weeks to read on).

Firstly to the Seraphim description, I have a further elaboration on them from what I considered to be a divinely inspired source. I suggest you have
a good read of the entire page the following information comes from (and his other dreams as well).

There are other types of angels, but the last type presented to me is the seraphim. I cannot do justice in describing their appearance, which
resembles living luminescence, as if radiating pure energy. These angels each have six wings symmetrically positioned on their back. Their face is
unique and of divine beauty—a design that only the Greatest Designer could fashion for an angel.
...
The seraphim, with their six wings, also hover in God’s presence. They use two wings to cover their head, two middle wings to keep them aloft, and
two wings to cover their lower body and feet. I understand that their wings are not used to keep them flying but to show reverence to the Holy
Father. source:

The source page also provides a pretty detailed description about the throne room of the Father

In the answer I gave about the Midianite virgins I said that they were to be assimilated into Israel (you used this example on another forum to
suggest that this Yahweh dragon was to eat them)

Concerning verses Exodus 22:29-30 (I believe you are using these for claims of human sacrifice and hoarded wealth to the dragon too, correct me if I
am mistaken). We are dealing with here the principle of the 'firstfruits' (Proverbs 3:9) and the principle of the first born.

Exodus 13:2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever opens the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is
mine.

The redemption of the firstborn of humans and animals is a key part of the Passover celebrations and a reminder of God's redeeming grace (ex
13:11-16). The purpose was to anchor in the minds of the Israelites the concept of divine ownership. Israel (as the firstborn, Exodus 4:22-23)
belonged to God because of his saving grace.

Leviticus 23:16, 17 Even unto the day after the seventh sabbath shall you number fifty days; and you shall offer a new grain offering unto the
LORD. You shall bring out of your dwellings two wave loaves of two-tenths of an ephah: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baked with leaven;
they are the first fruits unto the LORD.

This verse is related to the festival of 'Weeks' (Ex. 34:22, Deut. 16:10), or 'Pentecost'. On the day of this agricultural celebration of
firstfruits from God, many accepted Christ when he poured out the 'firstfruits' gift of the Holy Spirit just after he ascended to heaven (Acts 2;
Ephesians 4:7-16).

Numbers 3:13 Because all the firstborn are mine; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I hallowed unto me all the
firstborn in Israel, both man and beast: mine shall they be: I am the LORD.

The firstborn of all the tribes belonged to God and they were originally intended to be used as His Priests and their assistants but this role was
given to the tribe of Levi after they were loyal to Him during the golden calf apostasy (Ex. 32:25-29, Deut. 10:8).

Therefore the Exodus 22:29-30 verses are not to do with human sacrifice or hoarded wealth for a dragon, but to emphasis God as the true source of all
income and life itself.
----------

I will post up a few more thoughts on this topic when I can and a few of the other questions I have missed answering so far. I am going to decrease my
postings over the couple of weeks as I have 3 books I plan to get through in that time (two I just purchased: 'Petrus Romanus: the final pope is
here' by Tom Horn, 'The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus' by Gary R. Habermas, and thirdly Crowley's book 'Confessions') I will try pick up on
some other topics I haven't addressed of yours too after this time.

------ Jon Paulien is Professor of New Testament Interpretation at Andrews University Theological Seminary. The author of seven books and more than a
hundred articles, scholarly papers, and other publications, Jon is a specialist in the study of Johannine literature (Gospel of John and book of
Revelation). He also takes special delight in seminars and presentations to nonspecialists who can make practical use of the material in the real
world. Seven Keys Jon Paulien
sample chapter

-------- Jacques B. Doukhan
Jacques B. Doukhan was born in Algeria and educated in France, where he completed his doctorate in Hebrew language and literature at the University of
Strasbourg. He was then the recipient of a post doctorate research scholarship from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

Doukhan also holds a doctorate in Old Testament exegesis from Andrews University, where he is now professor of Hebrew, Old Testament exegesis, and
Jewish Studies. He also is editor of L’Oliver and Shabbat Shalom and director of the Institute of Jewish-Christian Studies.

--------------------------
From that list I have read Uriah Smith's 'Daniel and Revelation' book

Most of my knowledge and understanding of the prophetic books of Daniel and Revelation comes from all the sermons I have heard over the years, from
the video series 'Total Onslaught' by Dr. Walter Veith, and various books by Ellen White

---------
From the list of books I provided I would say, go for the ones by Ranko Stefanovic and/or Jacques B. Doukhan. The next book I plan to get myself is
Ranko's one of Revelation.

---------
I would suggest firstly to get some of Ranko's book first and watch some videos by Veith or Bachelor before reading some Ellen White books like 'The
Great Controvery' and 'Last Day Events'. You will be able to find those books online to read for free if you wish.

Ultimately, you could go straight to Ellen White (which Daniel and Revelation and the rest of the Bible will be in complete agreement with). But if
you want to build up the foundation of understanding first before getting into E. White then I would definitely suggest Ranko and those other guys
that are top Andrews University lecturers (that being the best Adventist theology university around).

I just got myself in the past 3 weeks the Andrews Study Bible which I am finding extremely good as the study notes, cross referencing and chapter
information is excellent (it was put out by Andrews University back in only 2010)....Highly Recommended!

Revelation of Jesus Christ: Commentary on the Book of Revelation - Ranko Stefanovic

It looks like there is a revised edition which you linked to, while there are used copies of the previous edition for really cheap, if anyone was
interested in the book but did not want to pay full price. older edition
There is an article that describes the difference between the two editions
Ministry

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