Don’t Marry An Overeducated Woman

It’s hardly a secret, even among the SWPL hypocrati, that IQ is important to individual life outcomes, (and, on a grander scale, to a nation’s civilizational supremacy), that it correlates to a host of happy behavioral traits, and that dysgenic mating trends threaten to “decivilize” the West if nothing is done to reverse them. Given these accepted premises, many well-meaning but marginally spergalicious bloggers argue for the glories of assortative mating, (though in point of fact many assortatively sorted couples are meeting based less on shared IQ or unspoken eugenic hopes than on simple segregated convenience). This post may then come as a surprise, advocating as it does for a marital boycott of overeducated women.

IQ (and a woman’s educational level, insofar as the latter is an IQ proxy) is undoubtedly relevant if you’re interested in improving your future kids’ economic prospects, and likely getting more so thanks to increasing occupational cognitive demands, but it isn’t the alpha and omega of the good life. Myopic IQ fetishism notwithstanding, CH has spilled a fair amount of ASCII ink ridiculing equalists who despise the idea of an immutable general factor of intelligence and the consequent futility of public policy that fails to account for its reality. This is because the equalists are today those in power, and thus the most scrumptious targets for the Shiv Wielders.

Implicit or explicit support for assortative mating to boost a country’s “smart fraction” is arid frank & beans counting. Breeding Sorters say we are doomed if we don’t pair off high IQ partners in marriage to make high IQ babies. But there are more things in love and marriage, than are dreamt of in their social science laboratories. And there are more negatives to assortative mating than eugenicist whisperers are willing to admit.

There really is no point to marriage unless one wants children. Absent children, all the good things about marriage can be had in cohabiting relationships. This is even true of raising children if your blood is of Northern European stock, for whom the people of your motherlands demonstrate a facility at successful childrearing in non-marital cohabiting households. (Not to be confused with craptastic American-style single mom households, of which there are blessedly few in Scandinavian countries.)

So a major justification for marriage (and a reminder of the silliness of gay marriage) is that having children within a healthy functioning nuclear family environment benefits their development.

Right there is Problem Number One you’ll encounter if you marry an overeducated woman: She is likely to be far less fecund than less credentialed women. If you want at least the 2.1 kids necessary to replace you and your wife in the next generation, don’t marry a woman with a 4-year college degree and especially not a woman with a doctoral degree. You may as well line the spare bedroom with kitty litter.

Problem Number Two with overeducated women: Over the last 30 years, the happiness of women with graduate degrees has dropped faster than that of women with less than a high school education. (See Table 3, Panel E) The secular trend in happiness is down for women across all educational levels (which is not the case for men), but having more than a four year college degree accelerates the female unhappiness trends to rates above that for high school dropouts. Men are happier when their wives are happier, which means you should avoid marrying a credentialist status whore. And since there is scant evidence that children make you happier, it pays to find a woman who won’t exacerbate an already unhappy prognostication.

Keep in mind, too, that women get a lot unhappier with age than do men. So if you marry a spry 35-year-old post-doc she’s gonna be a real barrel of fun when she’s pushing 50.

Problem Number Three with overeducated women: Pairing them off with smart, accomplished men exacerbates social inequality. And not just because it amplifies white stratification by zip code; it also increases white stratification by IQ (and its attendant cultural fracturing). Society is best served when men with high IQs are free to inject their gifts into the wider world of women, instead of having all that gold-plated DNA locked up in the semi-barren wombs of Ivy Leaguers pushing social constructivism and infinity-wave feminist theory as a day job.

Problem Number Four with overeducated women: They’re sexually frigid. While sex surveys are more prone than any other type of survey to tempt respondents to lie, the results do offer a clue as to which way the tingles vibrate, and according to the data the tingles are practically buried dead underneath a mound of post-grad student loan debt.

For further confirmation of this nonsexular trend among superfluously credentialed women, see this screen capture of poll results on a message board for upper middle class married white women, most of whom probably have college degrees or better. The question asked is how many blowjobs do they give per month (presumably to their husbands). Since it is a private message board among women and not a publicly announced survey with social expectation bias built in, you can expect these responses to better reflect the reality of their marriages.

If you’re a man with a set of functioning gonads and not a sufferer of cerebral scalzi, you will want to avoid hitching yourself to an overeducated woman whose dusty muff and schoolmarmish mouth will open for business once every lunar cycle.

As CH is a cuntoisseur of the overeducated SWPL chick, some may wonder why the Lord of Lasciviousness would deign to game sexually frozen prey? Easily explained. First, a gentlemanly selectiveness honed by years of experience and psychological nimbleness has proved adequate at filtering out women likely to lay like dead fish in my roiling sea of sperm. Second, pre-marriage, pre-kids SWPL chicks are ravenous in a way they never will be within the confines of the marital home, copulating with an alacrity that belies their furtive fear that their future husbands will be unable to arouse in them the same fervor. Third, one must accept that many overeducated women are sexless termagants because they are married to beta males; they’ve lost that lovin’ feeling, and only a suave rico will summon it back.

But, if you don’t have the skill to reintroduce overeducated women to their bygone libidos, it makes sense to find yourself a less educated woman with a naturally higher sex drive and/or less benumbing experience in the desiccating company of anhedonic beta males.

Problem Number Five with overeducated women: They’re uglier. Now I know what you’re thinking. IQ and beauty, according to the evidence compiled, correlate to a nontrivial degree. All else equal, if you date only women with above-average IQs, you are probably dating women with above-average looks as well. But the formula, at least anecdotally, appears to break down once you move into the ranks of women with much higher than average IQs or years of accumulated education. Trawl any lofty Ivy campus and you can’t help but notice how poorly the super smart women compare aesthetically to their earthier competition. State U girls have it in spades over H Bomb girls. If you are a man, this matters for your marital happiness and stability.

***

All together, CH has laid out a fairly convincing case against marrying overeducated women. Yes, intelligent women will get your stupidly ironic SWPL jokes, but that’s not what makes you hard, is it? No, what makes you hard is a cute face perched atop a slender hourglass figure, guided by an electric ham that’s willing to put all those delicious assets to good use. So why are you contemplating marrying an overeducated woman? To have extra money to purchase pixellated distractions? To brag to your buddies that your homely wife has a PeeAcheDee, only to notice how none of them are remotely impressed by that? Sounds like the winning life of a true warrior of the West. Not.

Nothing in this post should impress upon the reader that dumpster diving in the ghetto for sub-80 IQ battering hams is the wise course of action. An aversion to overeducated women is not the same as a desire for the love of blank-eyed obese monstrosities. The undereducated woman has her own laundry list of problems, many of them equal to or worse than the vices of her smarter sistren. To wit, here is a representative of the pro-educated woman, pro-assortative mating crowd, a real “lion” of the commentariat, reader “SC”, who lays out his side’s argument for sacrificing passion at the altar of social status whoring:

And what is it with you and high IQ/high education women?

I know them better than they know themselves.

Just because you have had bad personal experiences with them…

I’ve had very few bad experiences with SMRT overeducated women. In fact, the bulk of my romantic life has been nestled in the boobies of college+ grads (along with some very exciting exceptions I won’t ever regret). But I also have a bad habit of calling it like I see it, and overeducated women come with their own peculiar set of psychological baggage and magical thinking. And I’m a guy who likes to take a big picture view. Individually, these women have been great fun in my life; societally, they are the cuntary in the coal mine.

…doesn’t mean that they are worse than low IQ/low education women in aggregate.

I didn’t say they were worse. Think of this blog as bringing balance to the force.

I am willing to bet any amount of money that high IQ/high education women are: less violent,

…more emotionally manipulative. Or at least better at it.

less likely to have an illegitimate kid,

…more likely to fuck two men concurrently. Overeducated women are less beholden to sexual norms.

less likely to get divorced,

…less likely to get married before they’re haggard. IQ and credential fetishists love to write about the low rate of divorce among the overeducated, but what they always fail to grasp is that a big reason for this is the decrease in sexual market options among the high IQ that accompanies their later in life marriages. So yeah, you get a more faithful wife with crows’ feet and a saggy butt. Lack of options = stability. Worth the trade-off?

If anything, it looks as if the best bet, if you want to avoid divorce, is to 1. skip marriage altogether or 2. marry a woman who will be a stay at home mom and won’t make more money than you. That means, in practice, avoiding women with masters or doctoral degrees, since it is likely they will have upper quintile incomes.

less likely to have a criminal record,

…more likely to snort coke. How many readers have real experience dating and fucking blue city SWPL chicks? I mean, on the order of 30 or more lovers? If you do, then you know how much coke overeducated girls hoover up their dainty noses.

less likely to be on welfare,

…more likely to max out daddy’s credit card. But yeah, if you date an overeducated SWPL chick, she won’t feel much of a need to lean on you for financial support, which is a good thing… if you’re a player. If you’re a beta offering nothing but free dinners, eh, not so good.

and less likely to be overweight than their low IQ counterparts.

That’s true, and that’s the biggest advantage that overeducated women enjoy.
Fatness is the boner-killer.
Fatness is the heavy weight that brings erection annihilation.
I will scorn that fatness.
I will permit it to wobble past me and far away from me.
And when it has stampeded past I will turn the serrated shiv to see its path.
Where the fat chick has gone there will be belly fold fungus.
Only sexy chicks remain.

Just walk through the campus of Harvard or MIT sometime. Hardly any fatties with bastard kids. Every trailer park/ghetto/barrio has TONS of tattooed fatties with bastard babies.

There’s a world of women between Harvard yenta and trailer park methhead. What is the total percentage of 18-year-old American women who attend Ivies? 1%? I gotta laugh at some of these HBD hermits. To them, the world of dateable lovelies is either toothless COPS extras or 140 IQ Harvard students. I thought they were supposed to be numerate? Fellas, step outside. There are a lot of pretty girls with normal lives who aren’t welfare queens or PhD overachievers.

Here’s valuable CH advice you HBDingalings won’t regret following: Learn game. Use your knowledge of the seduction arts to find a cute girl with an associates or bachelors degree, 105-115 IQ, under 27-years-old, with no children and no stated feminist beliefs, whose greatest career aspiration is nursing or teaching and sucking the life force out of your two standard deviation schlong on the daily. If you can do that, all worries about an impending dysgenic disaster will fade to irrelevance.

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There’s no reproductive hope for the vast majority of the guys guffawing on this site’s chat board. The OP knows it:

I gotta laugh at some of these HBD hermits. To them, the world of dateable lovelies is either toothless COPS extras or 140 IQ Harvard students. I thought they were supposed to be numerate? Fellas, step outside. There are a lot of pretty girls with normal lives who aren’t welfare queens or PhD overachievers.

Cool, so while you’re waiting for your skills to evolve and improve, go out and approach 1000 women. if you are normal, socially competent, have clear intentions, you’ll lay 30 of them. That’s approaching 3 women a day.

If you are weird anachronistic, judgmental reactionary like most of the beer-bellied introverts documenting their inner rage on these chat boards, you will probably at least lay one or two. Which is better than most of these nominal virgins.

Approach 1,000 women? I didn’t have to approach anywhere near that to reach thirty lays. I did, of course, not approach “3 women a day” just for the sake of racking up numbers, a really idiotic suggestion. Instead I approach those who are more likely to bite the hook.

Approach a thousand women by approaching three a day? Ridiculous. That would take almost a year of approaching every day, which no one would do. Anyone who has ACTUALLY done some hardcore approaching knows you can’t keep it up on a daily basis forever.

Your amateurish suggestion, conjured in the futile hope of sounding game-superior, exposes you for the blowhard amateur that you are.

Bro, about two thirds of the women I approach are professional models in some capacity. These girls aren’t cut little Sally the 7 from PR (although they sometimes are if I like their look lol).

Always funny to google a chick after you get her number after a night out…you get playmates of the year, runway models, Telemundo “show girls”…and the fact of the matter is these girls have a HUGE number of guys hitting them up for pussy. And a lot of the guys hitting them up are celebs.

So please don’t pull that “you’re an amateur” shit on me. Different league bro. Good luck to you though lol.

“Bro, about two thirds of the women I approach are professional models in some capacity”

Hey, there’s nothing wrong with liking a woman with no breasts, no hips, no ass, and a weird face who could pass for a 12-year-old boy if she shaved her head. Your kind can even get married in most states these days.

Hey, there’s nothing wrong with liking a woman with no breasts, no hips, no ass, and a weird face who could pass for a 12-year-old boy if she shaved her head. Your kind can even get married in most states these days.

Hey young guys going out…comments like the one above are just fucking stupid and have no place on the manosphere. (They do, however have a place in the nerdosphere and the virginsphere.) It’s the attitude of a loser who doesn’t have a lot of experience with hot girls.

Guys spouting shit like this HATE when other guys have success. They have confidence issues and believe they can’t fuck beautiful girls so they create reasons why you shouldn’t get with them (“they’re really 6s with no make up”, “models are too thin” .) Don’t fall for that shit.

BTW dude, lots of different types of models out there not just runway chicks lol. Really, it’s okay to leave your house.

And of course you can fucking approach 3 hot women a day…move to Vegas (you know how many girls go to Vegas looking to fuck for a weekend?), move to LA, more to New York, move to London. Travel to Moscow for half a year.

Don’t spread bullshit to the young kids trying to improve their social life. They put themselves in a situation where hard work is going to pay off. If you’re in some rural place, it’s not going to work.

I’m not game superior at all. I don’t even think my game is that tight. Still learning, still growing.

LOL…Common player fallacy. Wait for an IOI to make your move. You DON’T KNOW what the girl really likes if she is a complete stranger. Waiting for her to give you permission to approach, or that perfect moment, is a sign you don’t have confidence in yourself.

Next time you see a girl with her group of friends, why don’t you just butt in and say, “Sorry for interrupting, but I just had to say you were hottest bitch I’ve seen all day. My name is arbiter”. Use the fact she’s occupied to your advantage whereby you can show how much more confident you are than everyone else, instead of a sideline sucker waiting for his turn to play by her rules.

That’s the only way to meet strangers. And if you see her a few times around, it will make butting in easier, even if you think she hasn’t seen you, because she WILL have noticed you, and you’ll automatically be familiar.

For sure. With the hotter ones you have to be super aggro. Actually, that’s the whole reason my inner game is getting to a ‘do whatever the fuck you want, point.’

I guess analyzing it….maybe that’s not the best advice to give to people starting out, but it just seems crucial to get there in your headspace at this level. I’m talking to a young model right now — legit, a little taller than me even. Now, I’m not saying I’m getting far or anything with her lol….but I mean, she’s entertaining my advances and taking it seriously. This is the level I’m trying to break in to and it’s difficult. That’s why the ‘do whatever you want’ inner core seems necessary before you can even think of stepping in the ring at this stage.

“Approach a thousand women by approaching three a day? Ridiculous. That would take almost a year of approaching every day, which no one would do.”

If you want it, you’ll do what it takes even if others try to tell you it’s ridiculous.

My main prob with pickup going mainstream is that guys these days think they should get results in a few weeks because the marketing is pitched as a quick fix.

Back in the old days we all understood that depending on how fucked up socially inexperienced you were, this was a journey that was going to take 2-5 years. Not 2-5 years of going out once a week getting wasted with your buddies. 2-5 years of pounding the fucking pavement, solo and sober if you had to.

In my first couple years I had nights out where I was burning down clubs approaching basically everything in them. I was opening 20-40 sets a night, bar-hopping to the next bar/club when I ran out of sets at the first one.

Was that as directly productive for getting laid as approaching the ample low-hanging fruit of 5s and 6s who shoot warm Approach Invites? No. But it was always about more than just getting laid. It was about learning how to socialize and conquer a shitload of fears and internal bad wiring and I was enjoying the newfound skillset we were all discovering.

Now I don’t approach nearly as much because my game and social skills are tight so most girls like me by default and I can focus more on pushing my own comfort zones. A PUA buddy and I are actually in the middle of doing a massive set of tweaks to our game styles (we both have different styles), tightening screws and discarding unnecessary shit and bouncing ideas off eachother. There’s absolutely no reason for us to do this because our game is just fine as-is, esp when we know this’ll mean a bit of a pain period where we lose a bunch of sets as we adjust to new techniques and learn to calibrate them, but we’re oldschool hobbyists who like to mix things up for our own enjoyment/evolution. That’s why I’m not posting as much right now, we’re busy hitting the pavement hard for the next few months.

If a guy wants to handle this part of his life, it is COMPLETELY within his grasp to do so. He just has to step up and own it and put in the hours and realize that no one is going to fix his life for him. If he wants it, the process is laid out for him and there is plenty of community support and resources to study.

And if you want to consistently pull 9s off cold approaching in bars/clubs where their value is artificially blown thru the roof and they’re surrounded by obstacles, you need to always be pushing your skillset and growing.

The reality is that to actually just stick your dick in something you don’t need much game. Most guys can bang out a few decent 5s and 6s and settle with the first 7 they land with like under a year of training.

All the swirly twirly stuff past that about handling AMOGs and group theory and building deep comfort and all that shit is just for the hobbyists who want to push things and see what they can do and how far they can fuck with society’s rules.

You’re talking about a dude with no humor(or at least autistic enough to miss sarcasm and reply with a wall of text to sarcastic remarks), who qualified himself with made up stories to people who disagreed with his ratings of women(if he cares so much about the opinion of some guys online, imagine how he is in real life with women) and that usually reacts like a beta by calling others silly things when they reject his ideas and judgments(omg, she’s a bitch for not reacting to my niceness mentality).

“Your amateurish suggestion, conjured in the futile hope of sounding game-superior, exposes you for the blowhard amateur that you are.”
Pretty much. I’d be surprised if he had sex with a woman above 6.

I never developed good game. Just the slightest clue of game got me tied down immediately, we are still married and raising children.

That’s why I am back here now, because I feel the urge to bash anti-game trolls (few of them here) and mainly to learn more game for relationship and non-sexual general purposes.

I don’t know others’ experience, but mine is that one doesn’t have to know much game at all, just get enough of a clue to stop killing the attraction that normally develops unless you fuck it up via active beta moves. And I’m no great shakes to look at either.

She’d much rather be on the receiving end of some really ugly edgy rough hard sex from you than to see you shrink back and slouch away with your tail between your legs like some damned beta herbling manboob loser.

Always rape around ovulation. No foreplay. Rip her open when you slam it in dry. Only doggy. Do not let her orgasm.

Never deny her when she sticks her ass in the air (best ltr ovulation sign as she’s initiating/confirming you’re the alpha). Fuck her face, POUND her in doggy for two minutes, spank the shit out of her and fill her up.

Leave the denial/foreplay and long sessions/orgasms for the rest of the month if that’s your thing.

Only if they’re doing it wrong. 1 year of solid approaching can do wonders for a man. They’re like mental seduction push-ups. They probably make you uncomfortable, but the more you do, the better you become.

Good Looking Loser has a damn good approach style. Super effective for weeding out bitches who aren’t DTF.

“The chat board” trembles – with laughter. It is clear CH hit a nerve in him with a very sharp shiv. Darkie is stuck, claws at it with desperate fingers but can’t get it out. With his last gasp he whispers: “anachronistic … judgmental … re…re…reaaaactionary!”

Nope, what the “moderator” puts on CH is a lot of fun. Definitely learned a lot reading the posted, it’s helped improve my social life and life in general. Don’t agree with all the shit that gets posted, but I do like a lot of it.

There are a few really solid characters on the chat boards (YaReally, ImmoralGables, Scray, Amy, BuenaVista, I’m sure I missed some others), there are some decent but lost college-aged kids trying to improve their social life, and then there are a bunch of fucking has-been losers who are very vocal and give shit advice.

[and then there are a bunch of fucking has-been losers who are very vocal and give shit advice]

That to me is the biggest affront. I honestly don’t care if someone sucks as long as they are trying. What irks me are the KJs who write well and try to convince the noobs that they know what’s up. Keep preaching the truth Darkhorse

—

Shit, I’m going to break a rule and qualify myself here. For 90 days between Nov and Feb I went to a major transit station after work and promised my self I’d do 2 daygame cold approaches Monday thru Friday

4 hours of sleep? Fuck it I still went
Sick? Fuck it I still went
In a bad headspace because I just left work? Fuck it I still went

I went from no prospects in Nov to having cute options and that was in the face of one of the most intimidating gaming environments (Police, Security, Military, Hundreds of people, sets running late for their trains).

Even when I’d have a few days of no number closes I never hated on myself because I could still look in the mirror and say I was pushing my comfort zone

Kind of you to say, but so many of my posts vaporize I mostly don’t bother any longer. I just spent 20 minutes on one and … poof! Someone said that posts from mobile phones are prioritized by the server, but seriously, that makes zero sense from a software perspective. There must be some weird subrosa shitlist I’m on, for reasons unexplained.

I wouldn’t put me in the category of a YaReally: I have retooled sufficiently now to have command of my social affairs (I spend more time parrying interest than deploying Game to acquire interest), and to better understand my past, but I have little interest in pushing the envelope.

Yeah bro, you and Greg Eliot have me pegged. Black *and* Jewish, and versed in your archaic references to Jane Mansfield and Grace Kelly. In fact I’m the fucking ghost of Sammy Davis Jr., brought here to spread some knowledge to the young guys and keep you retirees occupied so you don’t commit suicide with the lives you desperately want to improve but lack the social skills actually do. You guys are the fucking Statler and Waldorf of the CH balcony.

“1.
Bernankified
Weighed down with a soul-crushing amount of federally-guaranteed student-loan debt.
The name is obviously derived from Fed Chief Ben Bernanke.
I met a cute chick, but she was so bernankified that I couldn’t see a future, so I dropped her.”

So, so much defensiveness among the overeducated whenever this topic comes up. They know they’re on the wrong side, but desperately, desperately want it not to be true. So they use the power of the mighty intellect to construct straw-man scenarios.

Straight away with the reduction to absurdity…which actual educated people know not to do. But this doesn’t apply to psychological defense mechanisms. The alternative, realizing that maybe other – less educated – people might be right, is simply too horrifying to contemplate.

Is a 4 year college degree a must for a good life? not only women, I am a 22 years old man, because certain reasons i will start college in some months, when I left High School at 18 years old ,I have been in 1 career I didn’t really liked, is it good or fun to be in college until you are like 26 years old? the only alternatives that come to my mind for a good life without colleges are extremes such as pop start or soccer player : (

Fuck college. Get yourself in a trade. Seamanship pays well. HVAC (servicing rather than installation) pays well. Plumber and electrician too, where your wages can only go up after getting more certified. Doddering and light loafed East coast fags hate trades because they can make family wage earnings without 4 years of empty indoctrination.

Bingo. Men benefit from getting STEM degrees because it allows them to remain upper middle class and actually use their degree to get a high paying job. Most women benefit from getting STEM degrees because it allows them to meet some of the highest quality (but not the most alpha) men in society: high IQ, hard working, high level of self control, upper middle class, high income. A few women benefit from getting STEM degrees because it allows them to financially support themselves without relying on a father or husband.

Both of my parents have multiple STEM degrees and it has worked out wonderfully for them and me. Contrary to Heartiste, my mother has two STEM degrees and she is NOT a harpy. She is a stay at home mother and is still married to my dad. The way I see it, being a STEM major was great for her because it allowed her to meet a high IQ, hard working, introverted, high income, upper middle class man and marry him when she was in her early 20s. My dad’s income allowed her to stay at home and spend more time with me when was a child. My dad lucked out too because he got a high IQ woman who was actually interested in math/science but also interested in getting married, having kids, being a stay at home mother, and staying married.

I always wonder about men who turn their noses up at blue-collar jobs. Like, which is better, working with your hands, setting your own hours, building your own business, physically interacting with the world around you, or sitting in an office while the tendons in your thumbs freeze up?

It’s because of the perception of status. A lot of women will immediately write you off if you’re blue collar. You get treated like a lesser individual, having to enter office buildings from loading docks, permitted to use only service elevators, etc. They want your presence kept to an absolute minimum.

Skilled tradesmen, who could be pulling in close to, if not more than six figures tend to get lumped in with any other non-skilled laborer.

The WHO will more and more call any deviation from livestock obedience a mental issue. If you mean and it is autism in the strictest sense, that is one thing, but asperger’s, attention deficient disorder and shit. Even if true, what are all the risks? Is the greater risk in autism offset by lesser risk at stupid syndrome or whatever. I am not convinced the risk of autism denotes a relative high risk or is cause for avoiding high IQ parentage, but leave it to the NWO to convince us. I don’t discount the CH thesis of this post, just its application as a lone guide star for all seas.

I’m not sure how true that is. High IQ parents are more likely to have children later and age is a factor in propensity of the child to develop autism(among other health issues). So the IQ-autism link might be a spurious relationship.

Older women are more likely to give birth preterm too, which increases the chance of the child getting ADD and other mental issues. Not only are overeducated women less fecund, they make your children more likely to suffer from all this crap.

Higher IQ – higher educated parents have the financial means and willingness to try to do something about it. Low-income parents do shit with their children who have either autism, aspergers, but also Down-Syndrome etc.

You only see the highly educated parents trying all venues to improve the lot of their children. This is true basically in all Western countries. Handicapped children of the poor are usually kept at home and are often socially isolated.

In fact as many more parents with high education refuse to vaccinate and also have far better nutrient-dense food autism amongst these groups is lower.

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I think what you’re looking for is an extreme introvert. They exist. One of my best friends is like that. Female, extremely introverted, virgin. The men that are attracted to her sometimes even say that she doesn’t talk enough, or that she is too boring, but everybody has different preferences.

Probably, because that’s my skill set, but on the other hand I struggle with fractions and I have the practical survival skills of a fetus. I don’t put much stock in IQ tests as a measure of overall intelligence.

He will be to his children. He doesn’t need your approval for that. That’s one of the really great things about families, despite the occasional probings of the state into the working of your family, it is your own show.

Skip those. Odds are she took a GRE. I’d want to the know the score from her field of expertise and how recent it was taken. The date on all of those is important because they consistently been dumbed down for the last couple decades. A score from 1990 is not the same as one from 2010. Not by a long shot.

The new changed SAT starts Spring of 2016. Yes they’ll take out the words you would have learned by reading widely.

I don’t see the point of not penalizing guessing. Guessing was the right strategy anyway if you had any clue at all, it’s gamesmanship to know that. And since when is gamesmanship not a part of scholastic aptitude?

But you just said she’s dumb… does that matter to you in terms of a LTR or marriage? Wouldn’t you want someone you could talk to? (Assume she’s still thin, quiet, agreeable and cute.) I just don’t understand how you can have a long term relationship with someone you can’t talk to.

An agreeable, charming, pleasant woman will win any contest for my attention, even if she’s not a 9 or a 10, over a 9/10 aggressive, rude, obnoxious, high strung modern woman.

How women do not realize this, these days, is eye rollingly stupid. I know feminism preaches to be “empowered” aka a total full force bitch all the time, but a few minutes in reality ville where men won’t even bother talking to you after a few minutes of your snarkiness should provide the clues necessary for an outlook change on life. So blind, they are.

Please don’t take this as an insult because I don’t intend it to be… I wonder if a woman with lower intelligence is more willing to be in an “open” relationship like yours. No judgment– I tend to think less intelligent people are generally happier because they don’t “overthink” things– but I know I couldn’t do it and it’s hard for me to understand how any girl can do it. Curious what your thoughts are about it.

Emotionally it works by having the male being way more socially dominant than the female. Like she consults with me to solve her social problems and be her bulldog when social conflict arises. If someone gives her shit and we’re together, I step in and get in their face and they apologize, because she’s incapable of doing that on her own. So if she can get this aggressive guy in her life to sort shit out for her, it’s worth the trade-off of not badgering him about what he’s doing late night.

I recall my grandfather had a relationship like this with my grandmother too. She was actually extremely bright, but she was a shy woman, and he was socially uber-alpha. My point there is I’m beginning to think it’s about social dominance, not IQ.

Along the same lines, I have a friend whose sister graduated with a masters from an esteemed college and now finds herself in a polygamous relationship. In that relationship too there is a big imbalance of social dominance skewed toward the guy.

I’ve never understood the prejudice here against smart women, though I guess my experience of them (e.g., the horrifying Problem #4) is that of an outlier. I find brains arousing, and always have. Wife #2 was 170 *and* her school’s homecoming queen.

Amy, honey, I am early 50’s. Own my own professional services business. Make about 800k a year. I can have anything I want, more or less. I pick women who are lithe, long-haired and think before they talk. Generally, graduate degree holders need not apply.

if we want something intellectual, we have our guys friends, Monday Night Football, and the Wall Street Journal.

When I was in high school, my best friends were the top two students in our grade while I was a lowly thirteeth. lol However, I was the top English and Social Studies student. Mainly because the other two didn’t take their work in those subjects as seriously. Had they put in the same effort I did, they probably would have trounced me.

Anyway, in order to try for a scholarship for college, my parents put me in a Princeton Review course. On one of the practice tests, I got a 700 on the verbal section (the old test). Sadly, I could only ever get as high as a 1280 on the real test and missed the 1300 mark for the scholarship. But, it taught me a lot about test-taking that served me well on all subsequent tests for grad school, etc.

I saw the tweet about IQ from CH the other day, and since Mark’s a 140 and he thinks I’m smart, I started to wonder what mine might be. I picked an online test that was 20 questions long. He warned me that I shouldn’t be disappointed with my score as some of the math questions might be hard for me. He thought I’d fall in the 120 range or something.

I was able to figure out the first couple of pattern sequences, but then I felt like a calculator would have been really helpful🙂 I did the questions I could figure out and guessed on the rest. The result? IQ of 86!!!! BAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! I am thoroughly enjoying my new stupidity🙂 In fact, when I’m actually, naturally stupid, he is most amused. Such as when I discovered that a bowling score is comprised of the number of pins you knock down last weekend;)

Moral of the story: no matter how smart you are, its important to find a way now and again to be dumb. Don’t be depressed about it, please. Learn to have fun with it. And I disagree that you can’t have lots of serious conversations with your partner. In fact, with an IQ that high, you won’t be happy *unless* your guy can exhaust your mind. I learned that the hard way from experience. That’s why I was so delighted when we were first writing that Mark directed all my reading. I’d wake up to five serious long articles to read every day. And then there were the post-reading discussions! I couldn’t keep up. And I couldn’t have been happier.

You have this weird idea in your head that you’re going to get married and have convos with your husband about politics and economic theory over coffee every morning or something. You wont. The majority of your conversations will be about practical, mundane stuff like the idiot in the grocery store parking lot or what happened at work and you don’t need an IQ of 120+ for that. The foundation of your relationship will be shared experiences, not “deep” conversations. Agreeableness is 500x more important than a high IQ. You are projecting what you want in a partner onto men and it doesn’t work like that. Men don’t have a desire to be able to look up to their partners the way women do.

Still, you have time alone, you go out to dinner… what do you talk about? Diapers?

These threads depress me, because I’d like to think female conversation can be something more than just a burdensome chore men feel forced to endure between sex acts. We don’t feel that way about you, by the way. I enjoy hearing what men have to say, other than your response to “can you please open this pickle jar” or “what does it mean when my engine light goes on?”

1. As a woman, if you’re attracted to a guy, you’ll enjoy anything he does with you, pretty much. If you’re not attracted, you’ll despise anything. So from the strategic guy point of view, if he wants to have fun with a woman rather than getting shit, he needs to create / enable attraction. All else is secondary.

2. There’s a lot of conversations about pickle jars and when are you going to fix this or that in a marriage. But there’s some other stuff too. That stuff’s fine, as long as it doesn’t get in the way of (1) attraction. Which has a lot to do with sex.

3. Having to generate attraction constantly doesn’t make us highly esteem women. We think it’s stupid and women are animalistic. We do not respect it, hence the attitude here. But do you think my premise (1) is wrong?

One constant reminder I have set now is to not open up and talk to her like she’s a man. Why? Because men can talk about difficult subjects and hash out ideas. Men can acknowledge their own weaknesses to each other with the understanding that we’re ALL human and in order to build upon ones strengths he must understand his weaknesses. Women can’t do that with men. With no ability to abstract, they can’t see utilizing weakness to build strength. They see only weakness, and lose attraction. And with loss of attraction comes the mean spirited bitterness than women normally use to talk about each other. The only people women are genuinely nice to are men they are actively attracted to, right now. All other humans get the poison tongue.

So… No. Men don’t often feel comfortable relaxing and engaging their women in a normal manner. Because the women are biologically and psychologically incapable of having those deep discussions in abstract, and maintaining attraction.

And of course women think that they’re superior communicators. Here in the real world, men are often disgusted by women’s incompetence at normal communication.

^^^ It’s also a fantasy to think you’re going to have satisfying intellectual conversations with smart women. They don’t analyze the world around them or give a shit about truths. There are no solutions to problems in their heads. It’s “I talk, you listen to my emotions”.

The most popular attraction at our RG, a few years running now, is an aural photographer. Closely followed by the guy who had a PhD in rope-making.

I’d wager what Amy is talking about is more along the lines of those pseudo-intellectual conversations the over-educated adore, the ones that involve a lot of name-dropping and idea-stealing and basically sound like a master’s thesis in some bullshit liberal arts topic. That’s not intelligence, but academic posturing.

Is that not painful? I am not often in situations where I am noticeably above average in intelligence, but when I am, I find it truly painful with a few exceptions. For example, I have no problem talking to hairdressers and nail girls. I can prattle on to average/below average women if they are nice. I also have a lot of artistic friends who are on my wavelength in a way.

But apart from that, I cannot stand the company of non-intelligent people. I particularly hate the 110-120 range because they have the pretense of being smart.

There is a certain segment of the intelligent that are like me, who will automatically do the work it takes to make sure they are in situations where they are average.

I had a job for 2 years where I was above average. It was the only non-trivial period of my life where I let myself be in a situation like that. Never again. When I am above average, the situation is about as soul crushing as it gets for me.

I can tailor it down to the lowest level as needed too and don’t dwell on it much. I prefer genuineness over intelligence anyway. I also developed intellectually in isolation and read a lot and keep a diary. But if people have an IQ of 125 or so, I can get along fine and they understand 98% of what I might want to talk about. I agree about middle brow intellectuals as I like to call them. Better universities are filled with such types. I generally prefer the company of blue collar types anyway. I was raised to appreciate accomplishments over ideas. But there is nothing like a conversation with some of my smart friends. Pot also helps.

It appears that we’re quite similar in this regard. You wouldn’t catch me speaking the way I write in real life, it’s just not worth the effort to try and explain every single nuanced thought to what is basically an audience of people incapable of grasping even the explanations. That said, yep, blue collar types are the way to go for better, more honest interactions on a day to day basis. I figure if you’re going to have to deal with sub-par intelligence no matter who you talk to, you may as well interact with honest, direct types.

You– I can believe to be honest. You are a Brahmin indian bitch cursed with the body of a whore and the brain of a nerd. A terrible dichotomy for anyone. Amy— highly unlikely. She Is white girl all day long, and probably pretty attractive at that. The chance of her being over 100 IQ is fucking SLIM TO NONE.

But, check this little spoon, I DO have +120 sperm as a male. I want to push genius babes into wombs, who do you think I’d chose to leave their pussy leaking my spunk? You already know…

I can’t say I find most of her posts that interesting, but this is outright retarded: “The chance of her being over 100 IQ is fucking SLIM TO NONE.”
The chance of her having an IQ above 100 is 50%(assuming she’s a white woman and that IQ is normally distributed). She has a solid grasp of English and makes apt analogies at times, so the odds of her having an IQ above 100 is a lot higher than 50%. I do have my doubts about the 140 figure though.

It’s not fair to Amy to judge her on the color of her skin. You’re just giving a ton of credit to LS because she’s an immigrant. (I’ve never seen average IQ’s for Brahmins, but they’re not all geniuses. Many Indians we see here graduated from IIT, which probably implies 140+ unless you’re a lower caste who received affirmative action — yes they have it there too — but LS did not afaik.) This is exactly the wrong thing to do, with women or men. Why do you hate your own kind?

And besides, I find Amy’s posts especially informative, even though I have started to disagree with some of them. I mine women’s posts for data, then draw my own conclusions. And Amy is very helpful in providing genuine data.

140 is very high for a woman’s IQ. But I’ve seen no reason in Amy’s posts themselves to doubt that she could have that number.

There are people who do very well on standardized tests. There are people who don’t perform on school or tests but build successful businesses because they get people. There are people who have a gift for writing academic papers nobody reads, and people who have a gift for communicating.

I don’t like Oprah. I doubt she spent lots of time in STEM. But she runs the world.

There are lots of different kinds of intelligence. You could learn to appreciate them and be a little less full of yourself.

136. In Mensa. I’ve yet to find somebody, outside Mensa and my extended family, I can’t beat to a pulp in a flat-out argument. Psychologically crushed a fair number of my classmates (and teachers, and principals, and friends’ parents) in K-12. The most devastating moment of my life came when I was ten, and realized I was smarter than my mother. It’s rare I find a man I can talk to for more than five minutes without getting bored or whom I don’t terrify; the only one I know is the one I’m currently dating.

I don’t necessarily enjoy it. But that’s what I drew in the genetics lottery, that’s what I’m stuck with. I’d kill for a 115 IQ.

I seriously doubt, at 140, that you’re not the smartest person in the room, 99% of the time.

If SAT correlates with IQ then IQ may not be worth much. I taught SAT prep and had morons scoring in the 700 range per section after 6 weeks. And before you call my dismissal sour grapes, I scored 2380 (test with writing). Never took a “real” IQ test, but LSAT was 176. LSAT is a reasonably good test, by which I mean it measures a certain kind of aptitude – analytical thinking – reasonably well.. SAT measures how carefully you read the question, like instead of asking you to solve for x they ask for 2x. It doesn’t really measure anything except test-taking gamesmanship.

P.S. Mensa is made up of a bunch of losers who don’t have anything worth pointing to besides innate intelligence. I’d imagine the smarties who did anything worthwhile with their lives aren’t worried about club meetings.

The actually useful SAT score died sometime around 1995. It had two components, and it topped out at 1600. Around ’95, the scores were “renormed”, a word which here means “boosted because self-esteem and racism”.

As an example: I scored 1520 (800 verbal, 720 math) in the early ’90s, but this is equivalent to 1590 under the new system. I’m nearly perfect! Who knew?

These older, less fucked-with scores, purportedly map fairly well to Stanford-Binet and WAIS IQ scores. If you took the SAT after it was sodomized by the sodomites, you’re a Millennial and any intelligence you may have is completely compromised anyway.

So IQ tests aren’t worth much because they correlate with SAT scores, but LSAT scores are good, even if they correlate with both IQ and SAT scores? I think you could figure out why your argument against IQ tests is fairly silly.

I agree with you about Mensa. What kind of man would join a society whose only function is ego masturbation? They should give the society a direction by trying to figure some problems out.

“If SAT correlates with IQ then IQ may not be worth much. I taught SAT prep and had morons scoring in the 700 range per section after 6 weeks. ”

Supposedly the SAT IQ correlation breaks down further and further after the mid 90s. I went to college before the current 3 section version, so I couldn’t speak to its content.

Still, the SAT must have a semi-decent correlation with IQ and there is ample evidence to show that IQ is worth a whole lot. Anyone who can score above 700 in an SAT section must have been above average IQ to begin with. They are like 16, right? At that age you can still learn some information about test taking tricks as they may never have taken a standardized test before.

I agree that the LSAT is probably the better predictor of intelligence because the LSAT relies only on reasoning and processing speed, not on information acquisition like knowing the definitions of arcane words. No one has ever actually measured that, probably because of the sample of people that take LSATs are non representative of the whole population. But I bet if you did give LSATs to a wide section of the populace instead of the SAT, the LSAT would be a better predictor of lifetime performance.

“I ask you, do you associate with people in the dregs of the social hierarchy in terms of partying and fun? ”

I’m not sure what you mean. I party with friends and my friends are generally white/upper middle class like me… educated, smart. Not all smart people are nerdy and frumpy, although in some ways I am a little nerdy. But I’m also very social, I have a wide circle of friends, I’ve never had problems making or keeping friends or finding people to hang out with. I seriously have no idea what my friends’ IQ scores are. It’s never come up in conversation.

Hmmm interesting. I also took a few different IQ tests. The lowest result was an embarrassing 88, but 2 factors lowered it, first meanwhile I took it, I did few other things in my bedroom and I wasn’t aware that they count my speed to answer, in the other 2 tests that didn’t happen, and second, I didn’t understand a few questions in English (not my native language) so probably it was a bit higher, like 90 and something.
In other test my result was 104 and the most high 110, a bit of disparity, I can do better paid jobs than that. I still wonder what my real IQ is. and how capable I really am.

183 IQ, measured 3 times. Father was career military in the 1980s, so a childhood of the Gifted and Talented Program while living in Bremerhaven and Ft. Hood – was actually a study subject in this program. College level reading before Kindergarten, self taught with grandmothers assistance. Abstract mathematics long before puberty. Began programming computers at age 7. Completely self taught. No degree.

There. Now that I’ve established that my dick is bigger then everyone else here (and can provide certifiable documentation if asked properly), I have one thing to add to this conversation:

I had to stop working because after 20 years I found everyone — most of the staff, all of the customers — too predictable. I did feel that I knew what they were going to do before they did. (This isn’t that big of a deal: business prizes conformity.) I was not playing the game properly, in that I was losing the patience and faux-sincerity that lubricates a ceo’s interactions. I find solitude, especially now that I can have any book I want from the nice fella in the brown truck within 24 hours, much less lonely than sitting in my office feigning excitement.

My business partner was raised in the USSR. The children there were all tested, the better to exploit the smart ones and not waste resources on the dumb ones. They didn’t reveal your IQ if it was over 160, which was his situation. In 20 years we never argued once, for more than three hours, about anything: he is the only person I’ve ever worked with who cared more about the abstract integrity of an idea than anything else.

In the present, I’m in my study or shooting the shit with the farmers in town at the tavern. On the weekends I head to the big city for art and companionship, if I’m restless. This has been the routine for the past five months after three decades in harness (I built software companies). I’m finding that my ability to focus and construct things at my desk is quite damaged, which I associate with a decline in my *effective* intelligence. I caution everyone who is enjoying his screens — little screens, big screens, all screens — that they may be destroying more than your eyes. Before I went straight I was a writer and editor in NYC, and I would routinely sit down and work for 12 hours straight, through the night. I’m not sure I’ll get that back without going crazy reclusive and turning off the internet and phone.

I was married to someone who was a 9 physically (actress and model) and 6-7 intellectually. But she was also a 9 in respect of her social skills. It wasn’t bad until the hypergamy motor fired up like a Stihl and I was the nearest tree. If we circled back I would not seek intellectual companionship, as I did back then, but I would have to find more of it outside the relationship. These days I tend to date tall and smart. I am less compromising than I used to be, and tend to scare the shit out of average girls, who like most of my old customers, are so predictable as to induce facetiousness and snark.

Got into a lot of trouble due mostly to boredom. Could never complete a degree in anything, not because the professors were less intelligent or anything as stupid as that, but moreso because a degree is a method by which intelligence and creative thought are actively routed out – I work at a company today with well over a quarter of the employees having a doctorate in mathematics or computer science, and it has been my experience that the bigger the education, the bigger the idiot. Very restless.

One of my saving graces was being raised very working class (As Kid Rock once said, “I’m not straight outta Compton, I’m straight out the trailer”), and was primarily raised by my grandparents, who actively encouraged creativity and imagination. This resulted in the development of an engineer/tinkerers mindset, and little of the empty arrogance that Mensa minions tend to display (I didnt even attempt to join the organization). Bragging about ones IQ is very much like winning the gold in the special olympics – sure, you won, but you’re still a retard.

I’ve been fortunate to find myself at the right place at the right time, having conversations with people and little moments making a big difference in the world. I’ve been very successful with startups in Silicon Valley. It’s been a rather interesting ride.

Did you start programming in DOS because you saw your father doing it? Dbase 3? What’s really a trip is meeting guys with no education beyond high school that are very smart. Combat units used to always have a few of them.

I started programming because I fell in lust with Alley Sheedy in Wargames. C64 assembly language and the other, more common languages found in the 8-bitty boxes of the early 80s.

My father in the military – let’s just say that I was 7 when I taught myself how to program, and my father was stationed in Bremerhaven, West Germany at the time. 1982-3ish. Bremerhaven was the main hub for NATO back when Uncle Ronnie was running the madhouse. As a child, I got to meet some very….dedicated and intelligent men who had an unusual love for mathematics and this thing they called cryptography. In hindsight, I’d have to admit it was a very unique time, leaving me with some wonderful, yet unique memories. This bit of self disclosure alone should be more then enough to validate my claims.

I was challenged because I was given full ability to discover what I found challenging, and was accepted at face value by my peers. Having learned later in life the source of funding for the programs and their primary purpose, there isnt any doubt in my mind why those are some of the happiest times of my life. I wasn’t some freak yet to hate or be jealous of. And remember, just because I had the cognitive ability to learn or process intellectually, in no way meant that I had the emotional maturity to cope with life. One of the cruelest things one can do to a child is treat them as an adult when it suits ones purpose, and a child when it does not.

You can tell the really intelligent ones from the poseurs fairly easy in my experience. The poseurs tend to be the ones bragging. Intelligence is just as much a burden as it is a benefit – perhaps even more so.

She’s not close to 140. Based on how and what she writes, I’d rate her in the low 120s.

Your writing, cynthia, supports the claim of 136. That’s not a compliment, as Little Dickie Smothers would say, and as you obviously know. Smart women have trouble submitting intellectually, even to men of vastly greater intelligence. This is unattractive, to say the least.

There’s always hope, though. You could do like the super-genius on that one episode of House M.D. and drink Robitussin DM to take the edge off.

“I’ve yet to find somebody I can’t beat to a pulp in a flat-out argument.”

It’s typical chick logic to assume that intelligence means being good at arguments and “debates”. It conflates somehow with their attraction towards alphas who impose their frame and pass shit tests etc…

While most bona fide geniuses that I’ve met can’t debate to save their lives. Sure, there are some high IQ lawyers out there, but above average G is more than enough to win an argument, especially that most oral arguments don’t go into the tricky details where high IQ shines.

Really extremely intelligent people don’t think with human language as the medium. Translating from the systems we have invented for thinking to utterances in spoken languages is about as difficult as thinking the thoughts we think in the first place.

How fascinating! My father rarely talks and I used to have a lot of trouble with it myself. I’m still a far better communicator in writing. How do you tell the difference between intelligence and just “being there” though? Or autistic? Or a stutter?

Easiest test is to put the suspected hyper-intelligence in company of a known hyper-intelligence. We recognize each other, whether or not we like each other. To the outsider, it will sound like a dial-up modem connecting, trying to establish the highest possible communication speed.

However, although I still cant spell for shit, speaking and communicating arent difficult. Like anything else, its a skill to be learned. I suggest getting an entry level position as a sales engineer in a technical field for practice.

My wife is also that bright and we talk a lot. She is actually the first woman who loved me for my mind. The problem of compatibility is the same for me too. I came to discount a smart woman, but always wanted one I could talk with. So I was glad to find it. My wife doesn’t have any of the downsides mentioned here at all. I think they are due more to how such women are raised here than anything else.

So Cynthia, where is your dissertation, which you finished by 25, published? How many times is it cited? When was your IPO?

I am teasing you. You don’t have that level of intelligence. You probably would have to work hard to get any STEM degree.

You must be joking that you can’t find men at that level. Go talk to some nerds in the engineering school. The will even like the attention. But you don’t want to approach, it turns you off. Oh well.

Are there any really smart people in Mensa? Everything I’ve heard coming out of their is people doing lame puzzles. People who are really smart learn a disengaged way of dealing with people of average intelligence, deal with them kindly and not competitively, unless there’s a need. Then you squash them flat in a moment, they may not even know what happened, and move on gracefully.

I don’t doubt that her IQ is probably not 136, maybe something more like 118. But i don’t think she’d lie about it either. Someone told her that her IQ is 136 and produced the proof. (If she’s in Mensa) So either, someone mixed the results up or intentionally falsified them. Part of a larger conspiracy…

Some of your comments are very good and if memory serves I am pretty sure that a few months ago I paid you a compliment along the lines of ” you are a very bright woman” or something like that.

I am not surprised some are refusing to believe your IQ is high

I get the same all the time… a lot of high IQ people get that reaction from people

My mother has an IQ of 145, she has a doctorate and is a published author, was invited by a few countries to give conferences in the field that back in the 1990s she was the top expert, she even invented a new way of doing the thing she was an expert in,

yet her family always treated her as if she was dumb…they had and still have little respect for her

The SR-71 is a mind blowing airplane, I have a documentary on an old vcr tape in a box somewhere in which they explain when it goes over Mach 2 the body becomes so hot it expands by several inches, which at first was a problem but what they did is they left gaps every where even in the fuel tanks -which would leak fuel on take off- but then the gaps would close as the plane would get hotter and hotter, mind blowing stuff, It reaches close to Mach 4. An amazing accomplishement by the USA and to think the SR-71 is what? 30 years old? The USA was centuries ahead of everyone.

but… I would bet money Thwack thinks it is a hoax like the moon landing

I’ve yet to find somebody, outside Mensa and my extended family, I can’t beat to a pulp in a flat-out argument. Psychologically crushed a fair number of my classmates (and teachers, and principals, and friends’ parents) in K-12. The most devastating moment of my life came when I was ten, and realized I was smarter than my mother. It’s rare I find a man I can talk to for more than five minutes without getting bored or whom I don’t terrify

This is less a matter of IQ and more a matter of attitude — and it’s the attitude a lot of smart women have. To believe that the other side has no point, when they are incapable of correctly articulating the point — beating in a flat-out “argument” — isn’t really any sort of skill. Teachers, principals, friends’ parents — it’s not like the points they were making to you weren’t more correct than whatever it was you were thinking at the time. They just sucked at making the points. —> agreeableness/wisdom —> way more valuable than IQ.

If you want to locate the truly smart people around you, take up a path towards a career that has no clearly defined path to success and white man certification… and note the reactions of people around you. The dumb people will be highly critical of your choice while the smart people will question how and why you are going to do it , then offer suggestions to help you achieve it.

Your willingness to even CONSIDER a goal that lacks a clearly defined path that results in certification and white man validation says everything about your ability to function as a conceptual thinker.

Given our ego driven culture, the more hate you get, the better. Until finally no one responds at all because your production speaks for itself.

That’s what I’m saying. Smart/alpha/whatever individuals are comfortable with risk because they have the actual skill to manage that risk. That’s why hanging up your own shingle, working for yourself, etc. has my total respect.

3. Are careers that do not offer a clearly defined path to success nor white man certification mostly smart choices?

4. If the career in question is legitimately a dumb choice, are the “smart people” who don’t criticize still smart and the “dumb people” who criticize still dumb?

5. Why is everything that speaks to conceptual thinking ability necessarily tied in with “certification” and “white man validation”?

6. Why is ego necessarily tied in with criticism (hate)?

7. Is it emotionally healthy to frame all criticism as “hate”, or is such an approach a symptom of brash prole defensiveness?

7. Do you make it a habit to express yourself with pseudo-intellectual fallacy?

8. Are you smart enough to know that trying too hard to seem intelligent, and failing, exposes your intellectual limits?

9. Are you Athlone McGinnis?

10. Are you aware that when you changed your bio at ROK from “Ivy educated thinker” to “young man whose background gives him unique insight” that it was obvious that you, and only you, couldn’t resist your African big man syndrome – even when attempting to tone it down?

Ted, when I use the term “white man” Im speaking symbolically; kinda like the way you guys use the term “ni66er”.

If it makes you feel better you can substitute the term “white man” with the word “system”.

Now, if you want to become a doctor, lawyer, engineer, auto mechanic… the “system” has a clearly defined certification/validation path that results in a paycheck, status… in said discipline.

But, if you want to become a painter, comedian, actor… there is no piece of paper from a white man that automatically makes you one if you complete his certification/validation path.

In this situation, the losers are least helpful and are often hostile to any person walking outside the white man certification/validation “box” because it represents a threat to all they know and have been taught.

Ironically, its often the women who find this most attractive.

Therefore, you must resist the urge to internalize the criticism losers unleash against you and your thinking process.

If it makes you feel better you can substitute the term “white man” with the word “system”.

It doesn’t offend me if you want to equate “white man” with “the system”, but doing so is fallacious and will only hinder your understanding of the world as well as your progress in it. Even if you don’t believe that it applies all of the time, repeating this fallacy to yourself or to others will lead to distorted thought patterns and poor choice in actions. I don’t care enough about you to point out the fallacies, but you’re a smart guy. Think on it.

Now, if you want to become a doctor, lawyer, engineer, auto mechanic… the “system” has a clearly defined certification/validation path that results in a paycheck, status… in said discipline.

So, we need doctors for instance, yes? It’s a fact that becoming a well trained doctor requires training in a competent medical school. Is competent education for doctors an example of what you pejoratively refer to as “the system” or “white man certification”?

But, if you want to become a painter, comedian, actor… there is no piece of paper from a white man that automatically makes you one if you complete his certification/validation path.

Because I’m not going to a painter, comedian, or actor when I’m critically sick, and neither are you. The latter professions that you named literally carry zero responsibility in terms of health, wealth, or safety in society. Less relevantly, they are joke “professions” for 99% of the people who attempt them because 99% of these people cannot produce a product that people will consistently pay for. It’s perplexing and worrying that you don’t see the necessity for training and certification for most jobs that require it. Furthermore, most persons who pursue careers that require “white man certification” do so because they wish to gain skills for which people will pay in an attempt to have a life with less financial strain. Without training requirements, almost all of which are necessary in a practical sense, a well paid job would flood with the least of us and both the quality of services as well as salaries would bottom out. The existence of “White man certification” is the ladder for everyone into a higher social class, should they apply the necessary skill and effort. If an artist can produce a product that people will pay for, then they should do it. The smartest people don’t do what you stated, however. The smartest people apply artist-like talent in a profession that requires technical knowledge. Such interdisciplinary careers tend to pay the best and offer the best job security because such a person is most difficult to replace. That’s my “loser’s tip” to you, Athlone.

In this situation, the losers are least helpful and are often hostile to any person walking outside the white man certification/validation “box” because it represents a threat to all they know and have been taught.

Losers, or people who have an eye for talent and a mind for probability. Either way. However, I understand your hypothetical extreme victim defensiveness to critique (even if it comes from people who ostensibly care about you). It’s a natural reaction in an emotionally unhealthy mind.

Its not. The reason you think it is, is because you have nothing to compare it to, probably because you are a loser.

Your statement inferred that your validation of someone’s ability to think conceptually depends on their avoidance of career paths tied in with “certification” and “white man validation”. My question asked why they are mutually exclusive. Btw, your clothes, domicile, technology, and basically every product or machine in your life originally came from conceptual thought that was either a product of or was made realized by professions that rely on “white man certification”. Your point of view is fallacious in the extreme. It’s actually so ridiculous, that I think that it’s just white man hate couched in fantasy economics and fantasy notions of applied creativity.

The reason you think it is, is because you have nothing to compare it to, probably because you are a loser.

Now, that’s some respectable monkey chatter.

You think Im from another galaxy.

Im not.

You think your ideas are original. They are not. I’ve seen your thought process time and time again. Ask any persistently stoned middle aged drop-out they’re view of the world and they most likely repeat your perspective in so many words.

Here’s a maxim for you, again from a loser: “You can go over the machine, through the machine, or under the machine”. Further explanation: Most people will never be able to go over the machine. That requires becoming wealthy. Successful life plans are about probability. If you want to see people who attempt to go under the machine, then visit drug clinics, halfway houses, homeless shelters, and psych wards. Most of these drop-outs, often out of necessity once gambits like acting don’t work out, have burnt their minds out on drugs or financial and social stress to the point where they can’t fashion functional lives. There are methods for dropping out halfway or so, but they have their downsides (like permanent expatriation and no retirmenet) and are limited in number.

thwack said: “If you want to locate the truly smart people around you, take up a path towards a career that has no clearly defined path to success and white man certification… and note the reactions of people around you. The dumb people will be highly critical of your choice while the smart people will question how and why you are going to do it , then offer suggestions to help you achieve it.”

Other than his sneaky assertion that white men are the culprits behind certification (which was probably the intended psyops payload), I agree with thwack.

Tackle a craft, and try to find someone to be the master to you as apprentice.

“Educated women aren’t less fecund per se, they just tend to postpone childbearing and deliberately have fewer kids.”
That means they are less fecund. Older women are less fecund and women in their late teens or early 20s haven’t finished their education even if they are intelligent. So yes, by default, educated women are less fecund.

I do like intelligent women, but I agree with CH. Women in the 105-115 are both fun and smart enough to talk to. Women above 115 are usually fairly boring and in the West, they study things that poisons their character. Regardless, if really smart women wanted to have a chance with people beyond the total nerds they meet in their doctoral school, you need a new lifestyle. If I was a smart woman, I’d just marry someone in his late 20s when I’m in my early 20s or late teens while I’m getting my undergraduate degree, then have children and when the children start going to school, I’d go get my graduate degree and PhD. Sure, you will finish your PhD at 40 instead of 30, but you would already have the children, better quality husband, you won’t have the stretch marks women get when they have children late. There are other advantages to marrying first and finishing your education later if you’re a woman.

Just my ancd-exp: it seems like all the higher-iq girls I knew were a bit more pointy-elbows +persistently than their dumber sistren.

Maybe it’s just a Different way of them amplifying their natural delusions. Looks vs. brains-based-power. Varying tactics, maybe?

It’s almost like there’s a Dip in stubbornness [“well” curve?] between 100 and 125, where they are more “reasonable” than the stupids or nerds of either extreme. ->Higher (fun*livable)/cunt Factor, I guess.

.
Funny though, I’ve had more than one talk w/ a “smart” girl who proclaimed her iq Definitively higher than mine and looked like I’d just slapped her grammaw with a Hitler-tornado when I said, “Not F**king Likely.”
-eh, probably just a nerdy ST though, anyway…

Female intelligence is redundant. So long as the man is wise, then that’s all that matters. Those genes get passed on and give my sons cunning and my daughter’s an unnecessary bonus that will need to be curtailed if they ever wish for happiness.

I’m too young to put down roots, but when I do, it’ll be with a fertile broad with pillowy tits and peachy ass. She can be hollow so long as she is sweet and fair.

She needs to be intelligent enough to run a kitchen and do food preparation that requires long-term thinking. At the very least, this means meal planning. Ideally, she’ll be able to tackle things like cheese-making, with cycles measured in weeks or months.

Said by no man ever: “Wow! Check out the Ph.D. on that babe!” (Believe I read that here awhile ago.)

That said, my current main is an accomplished M.D., and also incredibly nurturing and feminine. Those qualities are completely congruent. She is a thoroughly lovely woman with a perpetually sweet disposition, and one of the world’s hottest, tightest onion booties.

The first of my ex-wives (and the mother of most of my children), was also incredibly intelligent and yet completely uneducated (high school dropout). Her feminine wiles knew (and know) no bounds. She was so pretty it hurt to look at her, and with that level of beauty, an education would have been completely beside the point. We compared our union to that of Arthur Miller and Marilyn Monroe.

It was a fun 10-year ride, but at no point did I have to marry her to have the fun. She kept up a steady march of maneuvers until I capitulated.
Now I know how I was outflanked at every turn. As my best friend would often say, “Who’s the airhead now?”

But I got three amazing, intelligent beautiful children out of the deal. She got the house, decades of monthly checks, and half of my then-swollen retirement fund.

But on the other hand, she did give up her promising career as a cocktail waitress. (Wait, I meant “aspiring actress”).

> “That said, my current main is an accomplished M.D., and also incredibly nurturing and feminine. Those qualities are completely congruent. She is a thoroughly lovely woman with a perpetually sweet disposition, and one of the world’s hottest, tightest onion booties.”

are helping to fuel the explosion in Aspergers/ADHD/Autism spectrum disorders.

2) Similarly, I am now strongly suspecting that credentialism selects for Personality Disorders [PDs], and that the pairing of credentialed PD-Dad & credentialed PD-Mom can lead to some serious darkness in the children; e.g. a pairing such as

{M.B.A. Dad with Narcissistic PD} X {J.D. Mom with Borderline PD}

could very well give rise to a sociopathic monster of a child.

3) Finally, I am now strongly suspecting that credentialism selects for IQ which selects for high Testosterone, so that

{High-IQ High-Testosterone Dad} X {High-IQ High-Testosterone Mom}

will give rise to Uber-Testosterone-ism in the offspring.

In girls, Uber-Testosterone manifests itself as manjaw syndrome and dykeishness.

TO SUMMARIZE: To the extent that the children of High-IQ assortive pairings are not trapped in the dungeon of Autism, my suspicion is that, increasingly, these children are going to be at an extremely high risk for Personality Disorders and Homosexuality.

Finally, consider the 20th-Century history of college edumakashun in the USA:

Good points. These are true of credentials earned thru credentialism. And MBA is a prime example. There is nothing very hard about an MBA, it’s a set of survey courses about business. I’d rather someone with a more solid accounting background than someone who did, say, an MBA specializing in marketing. But the second guy will probably earn much more money. This is credentialism. These people are generally smart enough to be aggravating, that’s all.

Some credentials come about because they fit the holder much more often. For example a real research PhD. That will weed out unsuitables pretty well, so the degree holders are sure to be at least pretty smart, probably very smart and nerdy, and at least fairly interested in what they studied. That’s a credential, not credentialism.

And with this sort of real credential, I think it selects for sincerity and ability, these people are less likely than average to have personality disorders.

Accountants earn the most of any business degree by far especially with a CPA. Starting salary with a big 4 firm is in the high 50s low 60s and would be higher in a solid economy. As a new CPA it will go into the 80s and much higher once they move into management. An MBA only has about 12 courses and really is just a business degree survey rather than a true business degree. There simply isn’t enough course work for a true concentration in any particular subject.

Accounting is also the only business degree that is worth having because it teaches process thinking unlike the others. It also provides an overview of how a business operates and an analytical approach to evaluating results.

Actuarial science is the best business related major (providing your school has a program; sometimes it is offered by the math department or as a hybrid). Unlike accounting, that field isn’t being largely automated, and has a much higher job growth outlook

Finance is also a better call than accounting. You are going to learn most the accounting crap and should be able to pass a CPA test anyway, plus you are going to have a far more versatile skill set and be qualified for more positions as a result. CFA tests are largely considered the harder certification. Financial analysts also look forward to larger job growth, though it is not nearly the difference between an actuary and accountant; this again is owing to financial analysis being a bit harder to automate and financial analysts are often actually designing trading models and algorithms.

I have degrees in both. Finance didn’t open up nearly as many doors for me as accounting did. Nor does it teach you to be a process thinker or about the nuts and bolts of running a business from an internal control standpoint and how a business needs to be organized and run. Very little CPA related material was included in the finance curriculum, only 9 hours of accounting. I consider Actuarial Science to be a statistical discipline, not a business one. Can’t agree at all about the CFA certification either.

Credentialism in the age of PC is automatically selecting for people who either actually believe in Marxist/social-constructivist gibberish, or are capable of biting their tongues hard enough to last years of soul-killing indoctrination in same– which latter almost guarantees they had little self-respect or intellectual honesty to begin with.

And, since CH is leading the way here with a tacit rebuttal to certain worthies who nonetheless haven’t quite transcended their class/snob bona fides, let me add: contrary to what OUR side’s STEM people like to say, the hardnosed pencil-protector grove of academe is rank with liberalism. The Anglo-Analytic aspie club at Oxbridge has spawned many a math-whiz spouting lunatic Leftist mumbo-jumbo worthy to make a Post-Structuralist Parisian bathhouse Commie blush.

I’m curious: do all these cokehead SWPLs arrive at the Ivies as drug-virgins? I assume they’ve likely been inducted to pharmaceuticals through the ‘benign’ intervention of Mommie and Modern Medicine, so in a sense the question is moot. But still: do the high school grinds mentally get off on their own drug-degradation? I mean, it’s not like they can pretend to themselves they’re George Eliot heroines with a colorful secret. All those AP cram sessions, just to morph into Elizabeth Wurtzel. Jesus wept.

Or is there a J*w*sh angle to coke use? I could see Talmudic chicks rationalizing coke, a la Freud, as brain fuel. Yaddayaddayaddabuzz!

Objectively, the hipster SWPLs are one cohort and the lawyercunt SWPLs another. I can charitably scoff at the empty hedonism of the hipster contingent with their aimless anomie, but if Middle America could see how much of its public policy and finance is driven by credentialed versions of Ray Liotta in the last forty-five minutes of “GoodFellas”, I think there’d be a strong movement afoot to put these Georgetown and Wall St coketards down by firing squad.

Coke makes you feel like your the coolest person in the room and all the people you hang out with are really cool too. It also lends a false sense of glamor to everything. Rich kids use it in high school along with poorer man’s fare – reefer, pain killers, alcohol, acid, etc.

When CD says that “[c]oke makes you feel like your the coolest person in the room and all the people you hang out with are really cool too”, it sounds to me as though he could be describing the experience of a person who was already leaning towards the wrong end of some particular Personality Disorder spectrum, and for whom the pharmaceutical might help to intensify the experience of satiating the innate cravings of the Personality Disorder.

Or maybe I am describing the causality backwards: Maybe our semi-modern assortive mating has been busy pairing up Dads and Moms with pharmaceutical cravings – going all the way back to Great-Grand-Dad and Great-Grand-Ma at illicit liquor parties in the 1920s during prohibition, moving through Grand-Dad and Grand-Ma at illicit marijuana parties during the Eisenhower administration, and on down to Dad and Mom at illicit cocaine parties during the Reagan administration – so that now we have several consecutive generations of pharmaceutical pairings which are resulting in vastly intensified innate pharmaceutical cravings which, in turn, result in a substantial rise in Personality Disorders?

Or maybe there is an even more complicated “graph” or “neural network” of causalities here, where pharmaceutical cravings and Personality Disorders are simply rather prominent and readily identifiable nodes on a much large “graph” or “constellation” of interconnected causalities and correlations?

My own intimate experiences with pharmaceutical addictions, within my immediate family, and with my close associates over the years, has been [PRAISE BE TO THE LORD!] very, very small, with “n” probably much smaller than 10, but within that very tiny little set of personal ancedotal experiences, I’d say that there is a massively powerful correlation between innate pharmaceutical cravings and some rather disturbing Personality Disorders.

And I don’t know that I’ve ever met a [male] homosexual – a sodomite – who didn’t quaff down pharmaceuticals [from wine & liquor straight through to dental nitrous oxide laughing gas, to include everything which could be found in between] like a God-damned human vacuum cleaner.

You know, the more I think about this – the possibility of at least three generations now of assortive mating in our college edumakated elites [Coolidge 1920s, Eisenhower 1950s, Reagan 1980s, or whichever similar troika of generations you wanna choose] – the more it feels as though it could offer a Darwinian/genetic foundation for the terrible divide in sociopolitical leanings amongst the [literate] folks in our country nowadays.

If the Right has spent the last century of prosperity busily self-selecting/assortively-mating for sanity and common-sense and a strong grounding in reality, whereas the Left has spent the last century of prosperity busily self-selecting/assortively-mating for all manner of utterly fantastical and recklessly bohemian fatuousness and gullible credulousness and pharmaceutical addiction, not to mention their [innate?] prediliction for that terrible underlying nihilistic Darkness, which always seems to be lurking as an inner shadow within their hearts, then it could go a long way towards explaining why the two sides can’t talk to one another anymore.

And then if you throw in the Lamarckian poisoning of the culture with which The Frankfurt School has been saturating our society during the same century, and you’ve got a pretty powerful recipe for disaster.

The good news – at least as regards the literate folks in this country [the tsunami of Frankfurt-School-induced importation of the Orcs notwithstanding] – is that the Right has been hugely outbreeding the Left for some time now.

Which you’re starting to see in the polls – McCain won college edumated whites by a very slim margin in 2008, and Romney won college edumakated whites by a MASSIVE LANDSLIDE in 2012.

The problem, of course, is this reserve army of Orcs which The Frankfurt School has imported to destroy us.

And John “Rastafarian Cuckold” Boehner’s dogged determination to aid The Frankfurt School in destroying this country.

I married the Ph.D and “in the beginning” there was some sex.
And as the years followed 5.5, the waning was rampant.
I walked with no kids in the kitty, a good thing.
I’m a much happier guy with my own digs, motorcycles,
and a sampling of young cuties in the yoga studio. Nothing like young healthy non-wildebeest fems to play with. No Zombie, I don’t want buns in the oven.

Some valuable criteria for the single men under age 35. I would add: accept no baggage. NONE. no kids. Ever. And no divorcees. No STDs. Not a one. And no drama either. See the family. Mom of course (wrist and ankle thickness test). Is dad a princess enabler? Does she treat daddy with respect and endearment or entitled bitchiness? What does she think of brothers, uncles who’ve been sandbagged with a harridan nightmare? Sympathy? Or “he had it coming to him.” She go to church? Say something un PC at an unguardedoment?

I had this profile on a site filled with Americans and this girl took a liking to me. She was a single mom and was unashamed of it. I was so viscerally disgusted by her lack of shame. Ah, my first interactions with the socially deviant.

I have a hard time with girls in probably the range that CH recommends here. Of course I didn’t see their IQ tests, but my former gf was probably like 1100 V+M SAT. The problem with these women is they are concerned about intellectual matters so they want to talk about them, and they talk well enough you have to pay some attention. But not well enough to think correctly or say anything intellectually interesting, other than by rare accident.

I might rather have someone with IQ of 100 who leaves the thinking to me and doesn’t try to improve or, worse yet, compete.

A couple other comments:
(1) PhD studies don’t lead to student loan debt if you are in a good program. Who actually pays tuition for a PhD? I’d avoid law students because law school can turn even nice folks into complete assholes.

(2) I don’t care if socially, assortative mating is good, bad or indifferent. I just care what’s best for me and my preferences. Since those involve creating some capable children, I think they’re socially good enough.

And while producing smart children is not the be-all and end-all of studliness, perhaps it’s more important than studliness, if one were to have to choose (hypothetically — one doesn’t actually have to choose).

(3) I suspect that one finds a lot of women in graduate programs who are so ugly they could not get jobs. Law school is a common destination of such people because there are no firm prerequisites. Med school not so much; most people with good grades who passed organic chem could get a job somewhere, so it’s not selecting for ugliness. I think the most selective graduate programs will be fairly free of this issue anyway.

What you do is you dominate them intellectually, train them to think whatever you think, then relieve them of the burden of thinking by putting them to work on things that matter, like making coffee and frying eggs without breaking the yolks.

Read that here awhile ago – it’s been a perennial favorite line to use on overedumakated SWPL chicks. It’s a good test of whether they are recoverable, or forever damaged.

My longer comment was apparently lost in moderation, but suffice it to say that the first of my ex-wives was a high-school dropout. But what she lacked in academic credentials, she more than compensated with feminine wile and guile. She was far from unintelligent, often outmaneuvering me with ease.

My current main is an accomplished professional, and yet she is also sweet, feminine and easy to get along with. She also keeps my schlong expertly attended to. But I think of it as replenishing my life force, rather than draining it.

Had I not had the experience with the first ex-wife, I wouldn’t have been ready or properly grateful for this loveliness that now pervades my being.

The first ex-wife gave me 9 good years (and one year from hell), along with three beautiful, intelligent children. In return, she got the house, decades of fat monthly checks and half of then-swollen retirement fund.

But she did give up her promising career as a cocktail waitress. (Wait, I meant “aspiring actress.”)

Very interesting story today, CH, and full of studies to be bookmarked and passed around.

Almost all the girls I have dated are college educated, the ones without a college education are usually dumb. But it’s probably true that the over-educated usually aren’t the best choice. And of course, it matters greatly what kind of education a woman has. The ones in sociology, history and the like are just as dumb as the uneducated, filled with politics that they think is science. The ones who study fields you can actually use tend to be far better.

The quality of people would certainly go up if a few random cities were hit by meteors and we experienced a serious economic downturn. Peoples living standard would be worse, but they would improve their own performance and opinions. When people have to focus on what’s important, they don’t study nonsense like “cultural anthropology”, they study engineering and medicine. They will no longer indulge every “alternative lifestyle” the Left can come up with to gain allies against the normals, they will focus on lives that work and that improve society.

It is a pity we can’t replicate this wiser way of thinking. Perhaps if kids were forced to go camping in their teens, learn to get in touch with nature’s tough reality. And perhaps if they all had to do a few years of manual labor in their twenties, either full-time or part-time, regardless of their fields of study. This, coupled with mandatory real economics that shows them how a company is run and why we have them, would sweep away a lot of leftist lunacy.

Women in the ‘hard’ sciences are ALWAYS masculine. Not necessarily in the man-jawed muscular sense, though that’s often the case. It often manifests itself in kind of abstract ways, like being overly competitive, lacking female intuition and such.

I think that what it is is that there are two kinds of masculine. Alpha masculine and beta masculine. The kind of lawyercunts that heartiste describes are alpha masculine women. Lawyers, investment bankers, female athletes, etc. They are masculine in the way that they have big jaws and high testosterone. The beta masculine women are most commonly females autism, or females with STEM degrees. They are low testosterone, but have brain wiring that looks very male. So no cuntyness, no manjaw, and no promiscuity, but also not the kind of women to coo over babies.

Sounds like China under the Communists. The kids had to go “learn from the factory workers” (do grunt labor in factories), “learn from the farmers” (same, on a farm), etc.

It’s the program that came in after China survived World War II and threw out the invaders.

It wasn’t a bad practical education. And since everyone did it, it didn’t take you off the “college track”.

This generation is now in power in the country. And they are very practical, there are no leftists among them (though plenty of power struggles and corruption), and they’ve risen to world power under the leadership of such people.

It wasn’t some sort of education program. It was to get rid of the troublesome thinkers after Mao had exhausted their usefulness. Go down to the farms, learn from the peasants…what a stupid idea. But you can’t revolt when you’re in rural Gansu province ankle-deep in mud.

Not the bourgeoisie that they sent away to do this for years. The school kids who go this experience. I thought it was part of the school curriculum for all the students. Why would it be bad for kids to get some actual experience doing things, even stupid things, on a farm for a few months?

Jesus christ I feel like most of the 18-23 year old blue city skanks I know just love the chowder (and as a rule of thumb, most of them are already hovering around the 30 partner mark despite being so young).

Of course, to a certain extent this validates coke game, which as any veteran poolsider knows, is one of the more fun games to be played.

All of which is to say – I’d be more than a little surprised if our host hasn’t spent any time out on the slopes.

Spot on. Most overachieving, overeducated woman I have met are unmarriable, except to sumise betas who will get divorced within some years.

They are also unfuckable, not for ugliness, but because, being “strong, liberated, independent” women, they never let their guard down, try to be masculine, and boast their job/credentials/assets; things of which red pill men couldn’t care for shit.

And remember ladies, your Ph.D. does not make you sexier (or thinner).

In all honesty, I have lived with smart women and women of average intelligence. I found the smart ones to be CONSTANTLY nagging me about something, CONSTANTLY trying to prove they were “smarter” than me, and quite frankly less interested in sex.

I am not saying marry the dumbest women you can find, I am saying, never date anyone with a load of initials after their name, especially the ones that go around INSISTING that people call them “Doctor” in social settings.. ugh never again

I think the problem is how they have been raised. American women are combative by nature and further are taught to hold their men in contempt and that is really the root of the problem. If you had a husband who you liked being with and who could afford to let you stay at home would you be bored and bitchy or would you try to reciprocate?

What if a girl has a high iq and no ambition? Like she is an iq 140 waitress? Is she better or worse than an iq 110 waitress?

If she’s pleasantly feminine and “hiding” her IQ, that is of course better than flaunting it. Only danger with that is I wouldn’t want my sons with her to also have high IQ and no ambition, since ambition is far more important for males than for females.

Damn this is funny! Please send me pics of your naked body w/o the red lingerie. I would bust in your mouth NIGHTLY, and remember, I have a harem of white girls who you will NEVER, did I mention never? Be equal to, despite your higher IQ. I could, with some coercing be persuaded to fuck a white baby into your almost barren womb, it is the best I can offer littlespoon.

If so, they’re insane and severely disordered. And their women have oral trauma. You cannot plant a convulsive, full torso hip-thrust in a woman’s mouth without breaking something. Her vagina? Hit it as hard as you can, you’re unlikely to do serious damage.

I have never been with a 9 or 10, (most were 7 s, two were 8s one or two were 5.5…yikes not proud of that! ) but the more attractive the woman is, the more coming inside her is pleasant, while if she is only a 6 then the mouth is a bit more interesting.

French kissing a very pretty face while coming inside her hot body is a wonderful feeling that is different than coming in the mouth of a more ordinary looking woman.

A less pretty woman should do things to compensate; thus she should offer BJs more often.

It’s great, though some of the pleasure is compromised (for me) if the girl doesn’t swallow and immediately spits into a cup. The woman I’ve been seeing prefers me to cum on her face, so there’s that, as well.

In general I prefer to cum in her mouth, but in general, I’ve met so few women who are even very good at BJs that I keep my expectations pretty low.

I was very close to someone and she had to spit. I wasn’t insulted; I guess I put it in the same category as anal: not my decision. Some do some don’t etc.

I do not forgive bad oral skills, however. If it’s because they don’t “like it”, well, hope they’re happy not getting any oral either. I have absolutely zero idea why women don’t have BJ bootcamps, where they get all empowered and shit like Belle Knox and learn the basics. And there are only 500mm instructional films on the internet by now. Really, there’s no excuse.

I can’t say I’ve encountered many women who say or act like they “don’t like it.” I have encountered painful or dreary ineptitude about 60-70% of the time. I do a lot of remedial instruction in this department.

The amount requested, which is 1. We have sex about every other day. Sometimes I am sneaky, and I have ways of getting out of that. Like I will tell my boyfriend I’ll come to bed soon and then wait till he is fast asleep, so I can avoid sex. But that doesn’t work very often. I don’t often give a direct excuse like “I am sleepy” and when I do, the excuse is true.

I don’t think I would ever stop having sex on demand with my boyfriend. It’s not like the experience has to be at all pleasant in order for me to acquiesce, so he can’t negate his license to get it.

“Like I will tell my boyfriend I’ll come to bed soon and then wait till he is fast asleep, so I can avoid sex. But that doesn’t work very often.”

LOL. Your relationship sounds awesome. You must be smitten.

Why don’t you just quit now. I thought he doesn’t even want to commit. If you’re going to ride the cock carousel you should get some return on investment. That’s pretty much the score you get hot sex from studs out your league with the catch being that they don’t commit while your burn up your value.

You can’t even carousel right. Geez lady, it’s not like you’re a fattie. Have some self respect and go be a better sloot.

Most of the Asian master’s/PhD econ/finance/math/stats students I know are farrrr better than uneducated white women in every way imaginable when it comes to wifing material. But I guess if you limit it strictly to western women I agree with your conclusions. They’re a pretty rare find among the master’s or more crowd in real, hard, or quantitative subjects. I’m not counting lawyers as doctorates.

Where the heck do you find doctoral women that you can consider hot? I was looking at the students of my future graduate school and they’re a bunch of nerds and hideous girls. It’s good the city it’s in is filled with pretty women though and tourists wanting to have fun.

If a woman went to an Ivy league college it doesn’t just mean she has a high IQ. It also means that she had a 4.0 GPA in high school and also did all that volunteering work and “extracurricular activities” admission requires. Imagine the girl that got a 4.0 in your high school. A pleasant person to be around? Probably not. She is also likely to have blood ties to our hostile elite.(not just “the tribe,” the gentile hostile elite are just as bad)

Another reason not to marry a woman who is excessively smart, I’m surprised heartiste didn’t mention his, she will be more likely to be able to see through your crap. Best deal for your happiness would probably be a girl who has a high IQ but lacks much in the way of social skills.

A big part of game is manipulating their perception of you. This works best on those who don’t have much in the way of ability to detect it. I’m sure this is one of the big reasons why smart women are less happy.

I suppose this could be a problem if you’re trying to DHV and you don’t actually have any higher value. That requires skill to cover.

My problem as a painfully awkward nicer guy was that I had plenty of high value (even though I am short and used to be unathletic) and kept killing the vibe with beta behavior. So I see game as described most places as some examples of non-beta behavior. Once I got the hang of it I just saw what I had to drop. This is good for me, because my memory for pickup lines and ability to deliver them is probably below the tenth percentile.

Not saying you don’t have higher value — you probably do if you like being here. Just reporting my perspective.

I’m quite serious when I say that the biker bar(s) I haunt are usually filled to the brim on weekends with “professional career women”. They are usually in their mid 20’s to early 40’s, quite clear that they’re there for the alpha fix, and they come dressed to kill. Meanwhile in the other bars in the neighborhood you have old drunks, used up hags and “the regulars” who may or may not fall into those two categories, looking around at slim pickings and wondering where all the attractive women are.

I wonder about the raw looks of the Ivy gals. I bet their not as far off attractive as your post makes it sound, but no one really thinks about females with Aspergers, and not only can’t they read social queues, but on a cognitive level, don’t much understand how to present themselves in an attractive manner.

Most of the problems you describe, to the extent that they are even problems, can be avoided by carefully screening your mate. There are plenty of highly attractive, educated, high libido, “natalistic” women out there. Statistics is about probabilities, keep that in mind.

OK comments:

“So a major justification for marriage (and a reminder of the silliness of gay marriage) is that having children within a healthy functioning nuclear family environment benefits their development.”

No, that’s really bullshit.

“Pairing them off with smart, accomplished men exacerbates social inequality. And not just because it amplifies white stratification by zip code; it also increases white stratification by IQ (and its attendant cultural fracturing).”

Well, this is a problem only if you think that “social mobility” is a good thing for its own sake. I don’t really see why. In any meritocratic society, the cream rises to the top. What you propose only make that process slightly less efficient, but doesn’t stop it.

“They’re uglier. Now I know what you’re thinking. IQ and beauty, according to the evidence compiled, correlate to a nontrivial degree. All else equal, if you date only women with above-average IQs, you are probably dating women with above-average looks as well. But the formula, at least anecdotally, appears to break down once you move into the ranks of women with much higher than average IQs or years of accumulated education.”

How the relationship between IQ and attractiveness works at the highest levels of IQ is something I would very much like to know myself.

Looking at a Czech university student sample, they found you can estimate men’s intelligence on sight. Couldn’t do it for women, mostly because raters assumed attractiveness correlated with IQ (apparently it didn’t, at least not at the high end). As far as I know, that’s the best we have on this.

Another interesting bit of info: according to the GSS, in America, while fertility is dysgenic for moderates and liberals and eugenic for conservatives, this isn’t because the very smartest conservative women are having the most children. Apparently, it’s the women just above average: in the 105-115 IQ range. For conservative men, IQ correlates with fertility to the limit of what the GSS measures. Thought you’d like that.

“Looking at a Czech university student sample, they found you can estimate men’s intelligence on sight. Couldn’t do it for women, mostly because raters assumed attractiveness correlated with IQ (apparently it didn’t, at least not at the high end). As far as I know, that’s the best we have on this.”

That’s interesting. And would be interesting to see if that held anywhere else.

Czechs are rather unique because Czech women are just about the world’s hottest. Most young Czech women are very attractive. However, Czech men are one of the least attractive of caucasians. Many Americans I know agree with that. Perhaps intelligence doesn’t correlate well with IQ in Czech people for the following reasons-

1) higher IQ people have higher Germanic ancestry, which makes men better looking and women less good looking

2) A small segment of the Czech population goes to university and they are not easy to get in. Thus, all of them have at least somewhat high IQ. Added to that, most Czech women are attractive, so they are looking at very narrow gradient of intelligence and looks. This test might work better at a state university with 40K people that has a wide variety of attractiveness and intelligence levels.

About the stat where wife’s income relative to the couple’s income drives divorce- why do you think that is? Is it because money literally does equal power? Is it because her husband takes a feminine traditional role if she doesn’t? Is it because being a provider is one of the draws of a husband and not needing him as one reduces attraction to him? Is it not the money itself but that female breadwinners are more likely to make major decisions for the household? I am interested in knowing if it is money or decision making/control that contributes to the power dynamic that determines if the man is attractive or not.

[CH: A woman’s desire is contingent on her admiration for her lover. She needs to look up to him in some capacity. A man who has nothing to offer but money is screwed if he’s with a woman who makes more money.]

Annette’s face stretches into such a terrifying Medusa rictus that we recoil. “I wrench open the kitchen door and start screaming: ‘Oh my GOD, Ron! Either do it or don’t do it, but if you honestly and in fact have no plans at all to change the lightbulb, JU-U-UST TE-E-ELL ME!’ And Ron is actually indignant! It’s like I am the one who is being OUTRAGEOUS and require HIM to give ME a teachable moment. He’s saying: ‘Look at yourself—why are you so fixated on a lightbulb?’

…

Annette continues: “Those shallots. He may be an A-plus house­husband, but he’s a B-minus housewife. He knows the toilet’s clogged, so why doesn’t he call the plumber and—more important—arrange a time to let the plumber in so he can fix the problem?’ (etc etc)

There’s something worse than annoyance there, don’t you think? In short, Ron above has been neutered by his position into something despised by the wife (I doubt he’ll get haaalf and alimony from his abusive breadwinner either). And you know, it might be a pretty unnatural arrangement if you think about it.

Unless you want to be that Ron guy, and hand someone your privates on a paper plate for a few years before you get fired anyway:

The only way for a man to sustain an LTR with a far wealthier woman is to refuse to live with her, refuse to create the slightest doubt in her mind as to his independence of her money. If she has one thought that he is going gigolo on her, it will mushroom. But if the man frustrates her desire for control and ubiquitous access, limits the sexual favors and time he allows her, she may continuously raise her bid for his presence.

I was dating a Hollywood woman who was significantly out of my league financially, but because I was in DC and she NYC, and I because I was still working, I had a high ‘scarcity’ measure. This seemed to keep money out of picture, as did the fact that she is a good woman who told everyone “I don’t care how much he has; I just know he has enough for himself.” We took turns spending money in the relationship, and it was the most equitable romantic turn I have ever experienced.

We would be able to make a distinction between IQ and edgeumikation if women did not need to be as dumb as rocks to get rejected from callage. Women learn by etching. It is unreversible, which is why her youth and virginity are her assets. More edumehcation means more irreversible calibration damage, and she will never fit her husband. I’m starting to think that turning girls out in a feminist playground is an actual service to the women so calibrated.

Hello CH.
I’m an undergraduate biology student, and also an avid reader. Your blog has given me reasonable doubt about whether I should continue studying. I’m going to give you an absolutely honest description of myself. On an average day, I would rate myself a six. No point in getting dressed up to spend the entire day in a lab. When I do take the time, there are very few heads I don’t turn. I have an hourglass figure, and feminine face. I know that I would do well to focus on finding a good man and settling down, but I have a teeny problem.
I was also blessed with intelligence. Not just the average kind, either. If I were just decently smart, I wouldn’t be hung up on this. In high school, I had a 2.0 GPA. I blame this on a lack of support, my mother was too busy chasing her dreams to help me with mine. And yet, I beat 97% of the nation on the ACT, scoring a 30. I didn’t even prep for it, because I knew with my GPA I’d never get in.
My question is this: is it EVER acceptable for a woman to place her career above family? If I were your daughter, and I had this tremendous intelligence that, if cultivated properly could change the world, would you encourage me to get an education? Or would you tell me that I should prepare for a life of diaper changes and soccer practice?
I know what path would be easier to take, but I believe that God intends for us to use our talents. What do you think?

I’m not CH, but I say drop out of the studying and find yourself a good man. God intended for women to help men, not compete with them. You will find being a mother far more satisfying than the fleeting ego gratification of your educational achievements.

A woman’s career is her family, there is no shame in that though many feminists would persuade you otherwise, eager to have more company in their misery.

You’re smart so put your ego aside and consider how many female scientists have changed the world? While some females have contributed much, the greatest innovations have always been driven by men. As such, the greatest contribution you can make will come from your womb, not your brain.

There are rare women who become firefighters as there are women who play basketball, but why bother with the second best when you already have men fulfilling those roles to their highest potential? It’s like having a stay at home dad. A waste of masculine ability, as is you not being wife and mother a waste of feminine ability.

There are many male scientists, there are no male mothers. Play to your strengths.

You can use your smarts in another way besides the path you’re on now. Motherhood will have it’s own challenges and at the end of your life is the only path from which you’ll derive any meaning and satisfaction.

I don’t mean to compete with men. I respect their masculinity and find comfort in it.
While my body itself is feminine, my brain, for whatever intents and purposes, is masculine. I’m analytical. A logical thinker. I’m constantly thinking about the big questions. I know how to fix a TV. I’m a thrill-seeker. I always excelled at the “male-dominated” subjects like physics, chem and math. I’m good at what ever I set my mind to, even computer programming. You speak of wasting masculinity, isn’t that the same as not utilizing my brain? It’s not like I can make my brain more feminine. I didn’t ask to be like this, I just am.
Do you really think I should quit school? Just because I’m female? I can still have kids if I have a career, you know. What if I have smart daughters like me?

A woman with a masculine brain is not working with the same thing as a man’s brain, no more than a rugged lesbian could replace a real father or an effeminate man a real mother.

You can have kids and you can have a career but not at the same time. If the white coat still calls to you, do it after you’ve had kids. That’s what many high achieving women have done. But many, after they’ve had kids, find it suits them so much they don’t go back into the workforce.

You say you don’t mean to compete with men but that doesn’t stop you from doing just that. Women in the workforce bloat up the labor pool, so a man’s labor is worth less, making it harder for men to provide for their women.

Women in highly specialized positions such as yours often stay in their careers until their late 20’s/early 30’s until they get the baby rabies and then drop out of their profession altogether. This means a lost investment to society as a man in your position would not drop his position to care for the kids, he has a wife for that.

This is why societies with distinct gender roles and division of labor have prospered, and those without them have not. If you have smart daughters, teach them how to be feminine, gentle and supporting of their man.

That will earn them far more value and praise from their men, more than a degree will anyway.

Cleopatra— don’t listen to these fucking beta ass herbs and retards. They speak from ZERO experience. I dated “you” for a few years. You are a 6 so in that way, I did NOT date you, but I dated a hard 8 who was 144 IQ, far beyond your measure. Carlos Danger calls it right— use your brain for high pursuits doctor, pharmacist, business exec, and then do what? Spend the other 50% of your life/time if you are well-balanced as MOST careerist cunts are not with and on your family.

Matthew, blox, I’ll be more than happy to prove you wrong. Let’s have this chat again in 10 years and see who will be talking down to who. By the way, as described above, while my mother was out chasing her dreams (father was working too), I was the one doing the cooking, cleaning, and housekeeping. Been there, done that. Hence the low GPA in high school. Now that I’m on my own, I have the freedom to pursue my dreams.

do you think you’re so special that you’re the only one who has ever had to feed themselves and keep an orderly living space? how long do you think that shit takes, really?

the low GPA in high school is from poor work ethic (evidenced by the excuses) and a lack of general intelligence (HS is a joke compared to collegiate sciences and mathematics, O-chem will eat your face)

step up to the plate if childlessness and being “second best” are your life goals

Blox, I was accused of being a shitty housewife, so I just pointed out that I’ve been there, done that, and I bet you I can cook better than any chick you’ll ever bring back home. I treat cooking like a science project. I already took Organic chem and I schooled all the men in the class. Poor work ethic my ass, I studied hard everyday to get that A. So… wrong once again. I think I would be fine with childlessness, a lot of men deal with it, and I imagine I’ll find a way too.
You think you know me. You think you can beat me down, but remember, I’m not like other women. I know that I have it inside of me to make an impact, regardless of my age, gender, social status, marital status or even sexual orientation. And so far, the only reason you can come up with for me not to pursue a career is to continue the family lineage. I think I’ll leave that up to my younger sister though, she’s always been the prettier, more nurturing one in the family anyway.

There’s a difference between being competitive or argumentative and being assertive. I stick up for myself, nothing less, nothing more. I don’t pick fights, but I don’t take nonsense. I actually enjoy helping classmates and being dependable. And if you are having difficulty keeping up with me, it’s simply because you’re not alpha enough, not a testament to my loveliness.

no, the main reason i think you shouldn’t do it is because i don’t want to have you on my team if you’re willing to blame a C average on anybody but yourself.
if you fuck up as a resident, you don’t get to bitch about the attending not “supporting your feels” enough so that you would succeed. its as simple as your idiocy let someone die.

doing better now? willing to sacrifice using your ovaries?
good, i don’t “think i know you” and i really don’t care to. shut up with the “i’m so special” shit and get back to work

As if you’d be the one calling the shots, blox. The key words are that I HAD a C average. I realized my potential and I turned myself around by whatever means necessary. Why don’t you go screw yourself, you know that you’ll never achieve half as much as I will.

Worst thing you could do is to marry a man of lesser intelligence which is most likely should you persuade that path.
Six will not bring you an alpha
This place seems to be filled with female geniuses but if you are truly intelligent do not neglect it for the sake of a mediocre man
(Being good at math does not necessarily equates with high intelligence
while the way how you seeking the advice reveals an impressionable young mind)
We all carry our cross that may easily be yours, to be surrounded by intellectual dwarfs and perhaps marry one.
There is a real thrill in attaining the knowledge and I would not trade for the comfort which mediocrity brings under many disguises

I said six on the average day. No make-up, hair not done, dressed for comfort in a lab coat and goggles. I look just like a teenager.
I’ve had many chances with “alphas”, I just tend to steer clear of them. Our egos don’t mesh, and I like harmony in my relationships. With an alpha, there’s too much competition going on. I’m also not a big fan of games. Yes, there are ‘tingles’, but I need someone I can rely on. Too much bullshit gets in the way of work. I think I would fare better with someone a little less ambitious than me.
Yes, I’m young. Yes, I’m still impressionable, but I’m confident I have more insight on what’s going than the average adult browsing this site. I’ve been following these CH type blogs since I was 16 years old, trying to figure out what exactly is happening in this crazy world of ours.

All right go and conquer then
Alphas are not good marriage material anyway.
You do not seem to be a sensual type, looking for a friend and an allay in a man more than lover, seems to me
But before you do, diversify your reading a bit, more books less blogs

I don’t believe that’s true. I swear I’m not trying to be a bitch right now, but according to forbes the second most powerful person in the world is a woman: Angela Merkel. I’m ok with being second best, as long as I’m making a positive change.

You’re listening to what a magazine says, one blighted with leftist idiocy. Magazines of every stripe are want to praise every woman with a glimmer of notability, never mind their lack of demonstrated ability.

Angela Merkel, for all her ‘power’ and her lipservice to how multiculturalism doesn’t work, still does nothing to stymie and repel the Turkish hordes that ruin her country. What good is all that influence if you can’t defend your people?

If you’re ok with being second best, and I doubt you are otherwise you wouldn’t be asking this, then you’d be a wife and be making a positive change by birthing intelligent children and giving them the care as only a stay at home mother can.

You are prideful and clamor for male achievement and influence, a thing intrinsic to the female condition. You’ve read this blog and no doubt other blogs in the Manosphere. It NEVER ends well for careerists, even the ones that get their kids and their provider meal ticket are still rotten in spirit.

The greatest thing any woman can do is be feminine, a good mother and a loyal, loving wife.

“The greatest thing any woman can do is be feminine, a good mother and a loyal, loving wife.”

Pretty much man. Monkey brain needs first, higher achievement second is a good rule for a happier life.

The biological primal lizard brain will fucking scream at you when it’s getting neglected no matter what else you have going for you. That’s why even highly smart women should focus on finding alpha commitment and children before pursuing hobbies and careers.

Don’t drop out of school. The easiest way to land a high quality man is to be a female STEM major. Stay in school. If you find your husband by the time you graduate, end your education with a bachelor’s degree, get married, have kids, and stay married. If you don’t find your husband by then, go to grad school and give it another shot. Any female STEM major, even an ugly warpig, can find a good husband. I will bet any amount of money that you WILL find a good husband if stay in your biology program.

Oh please. Your IQ is not that high and even if it is, what makes you think you will be able to “change” anything? Your attitude is why we’re in the mess we’re in and why feminism is evil. Put that talent and passion into your kids and family, people who may actually give a shit about you when you’re old and aren’t cute anymore instead of prostituting yourself for the Combine, which is what 99% of all work is. And as far as Angela is concerned, very few men would want to suffer through being married to her. She’s not very pretty and has no time for sex. I would only be with her if I could have a mistress and it only involved going to official functions with her for public show. There’s a standing joke in Germany where her husband is always portrayed in comedy skits with a brown bag on his head so no one will know who he is. Change the world if you like, but learn to love cats.

Because I’m the shit, that’s why. The only people at my high school who scored in that range on the ACT ended up going to Ivy League Schools, except for the one dude who ended up going to MIT. Mostly men, except for one other female, the valedictorian. I had a 2.0 GPA!!!
In regards to Angela: who the fuck cares if she’s pretty. Who the fuck cares if she’s married. Who cares if she has sex? She’s one of the most powerful people in the world. Your jealousy is easy to see. You see work as prostitution, I could say the same thing as marriage. That big fancy wedding, the sparkly diamond ring and a lifelong of commitment in exchange for your vagina, that only one person, your husband and slave owner, has access to.
See, I think that if I were to go down that lonely, cat-loving, sexless existence, I could go to sleep at night knowing that I have made everyone else’s life around me better. If I went down the kids and family route, exclusively, I would go to sleep every night thinking about the waste of my existence. How boring it is. How meaningless and redundant. How my talents are being wasted.
My father tells me stories about my grandmother, who he always described as an intelligent and caring woman. I happen to be named after her. He says that till her dying day, she lamented over the fact that my great-grandfather never let her go to college. She dreamt about what her future could have been like, instead of the life of poverty and too many mouths to feed that she endured.

I’ve met Ivy League grads who worked at veterinarian’s offices or private schools. Guess how many are public school teachers? You will learn too late that you’re not as bright or special as you think you are and cats will be your only company then.

My strength has never been my scholastic achievements. I have original ideas, and I think for myself. Others influence me, but I don’t think a certain way because I was told to at school. You can keep trying to put me down, but I’m stubborn so it won’t work.

I don’t think you’ve ever met a narcissist if you think I’m one. Narcissists don’t go to class in sweats and Uggs. They don’t spend their last dime on books and microscopes. Narcissists don’t subsist on Cheez-its and frozen pizza just so they can afford the good brand of dog food for their puppy. Try harder.

Because I’m the shit, that’s why. The only people at my high school who scored in that range on the ACT ended up going to Ivy League Schools, except for the one dude who ended up going to MIT. Mostly men, except for one other female, the valedictorian. I had a 2.0 GPA!!!

Ease on up there. An ACT score in the 97th percentile, or a 30, is only approximately equal to an IQ of 130.

Before you start plotting your life’s course on the assumption that your God’s gift to science/academia, maybe you should take a real IQ test and see what your intellectual potential truly is.

And a little hint, an IQ greater than 130, hell greater than 145, don’t mean jackshit for being successful in life/achieving great things, if you don’t have an equally high degree of diligence, ambition and hard work.

I think Cleopatra should keep talking. Her rabid and uneducated statements make the perfect example of a dumb feminist for readers to watch. Any time they think “This criticism of feminism might be over the top….” they can look at her statements and see that no, it’s right on the money after all. Love it!

Possibly Cleopatra is a guy who is just writing as a feminist strawman. Well, good show in that case.

Did he deny her access to books? Were they wealthy enough to afford it? What useful discipline would she have studied? Abe Lincoln was self educated. Your grandmother wasn’t so old that going to school on her own was an impossibility either. She would have been a housewife in the late 70s or early 80s. That was second wave feminism gaining traction, right around the first wave of divorces where I went from not knowing anyone who had divorced parents to half of everyone I knew. Lots of people having affairs. You’re a tyke of 17 or 18 as you claim so she must have died early or you’re much older and have blown your cover. A post-modern sob story!

The best part is how quickly most women fall easily into not having to work or hold a regular schedule. Regardless of education. The loudest protesters fall first. If you’re lucky they cook and do some housework and give you sex. If you’re not they don’t do any of these things and go shopping a lot on your dime.

My grandmother passed away before I even got a chance to meet her. She was born in Eastern Europe, and lived during the Communist Era. It’s really funny to me that you think that I’m making this up. My great-grandfather allowed her two older brothers to college, but forbade her to go. He said that she was just going to end up changing diapers anyway. My father said that it never stopped her from reading everything she could and trying her best to educate herself.

Everything I’m posting here is 100% true. I really am a Bio Major. I’m not an angry feminist, but I’m not a push-over either. Let’s just say I’m balanced. I have a boyfriend (he’s not 80 lbs, he’s 6’2″, 200-ish lbs, works out daily). We’re slightly older than 17-18. Apparently, I’m an “un-educated” person who also, just happens to be tri-lingual.

I don’t identify myself as a feminist. Feminists seek equality with men. I think that the way society existed before WAS equal, wasn’t that the point of marriage? There was more balance before. Seeing as the cat’s out of the bag and there’s no way of going back to how it was, we’re left with a lot of grey area. So, the question remains, if someone HAS the qualifications to do the job, should their gender matter, and why? At what point do their smarts outweigh their reproductive value?

This comment made me chuckle. My interest in the very hormone that gives us power, strength and libido, the very thing that makes us feel alive, makes you suspicious? I don’t understand why that’s such a big deal.
I’m not testing anyone. I’m curious. Would it really be that bad for a woman to have a career if she had the talent to execute it better than anyone else? Is that a valid excuse to not focus on child-rearing?

My question is this: is it EVER acceptable for a woman to place her career above family? If I were your daughter, and I had this tremendous intelligence that, if cultivated properly could change the world, would you encourage me to get an education? Or would you tell me that I should prepare for a life of diaper changes and soccer practice?

Diaper changes and soccer practice for sons who would change the world. Think of it that way. You could still exploit your talents as a hobby rather than having them be a money-maker.

” … If I were your daughter, and I had this tremendous intelligence that, if cultivated properly could change the world, would you encourage me to get an education?… ”

I can not speak for CH but for what it is worth here is what I think,

I don’t know you or what you would do but we have had intelligent women who got an education and who changed the world, they came up with feminism and made the world a worse place for almost everyone.

Intelligent educated women tend to be liberals…liberalism and its retarded angry cousin feminism are destroying Western Civilization.

If you have been reading for a while you know what I mean by destroying our civilization.

Maybe you are an exception to the rule, maybe you would do something that is actually good for the world but as far as we know women tend to do things that are good for everyone from dolphins to colored third world immigrants or illegals and of course good for women BUT no good for white males

If it was not so late I could provide links to support what I am saying here but if you truly are intelligent and have read something else than liberal approved stuff, you know I am right.

The world does not need more gay rights, more illegal immigrants, more feminism or harsher anti-male laws

I’m very familiar with the destruction and chaos that feminism has brought about. It’s not very often that humans do things in spite of their internal wiring. Men instinctively place high value on certain things such as chasteness, femininity, meekness and nurturing skills. Feminism sort of destroyed all of that, as well as the institution of marriage. Women lust for men more powerful than them, but by becoming more powerful than their would be husbands, they are no longer attracted to them. That’s why alpha males have harems of women now, and many betas live a sexless existence.

So it’s back to what it was like at the beginning of man kind. I think what would change the world now is understanding. This is not a war between men and women. Look at all the hard-core feminists. Are they happy? Are they satisfied with the results of trying to whip their men into shape? What about the misogynists? They’re so busy devaluing women that they’re losing out on love and a meaningful relationship. Sure, you’ve got great game, but when was the last time you could have a deep conversation with a beautiful woman? Countless men have commented after talking to me how nice it is to talk to a woman about something deep and central to your soul, and having her understand, because she is right there with you. Education isn’t all bad. There was a time when you came home to a wife who didn’t care one bit about what you had to say, and she most likely wouldn’t have understood anyway.

(2) Men shouldn’t spend their lives preparing for those few unicorns, and anyway there are men who can have these conversations, though not quite the same way probably.

(3) It’s rare to have an equal relationship between men and women. Due largely to women’s personalities, it’s very unpleasant unless the woman is attracted to you. So men in what I call the “one-down” form of friendship, where he’s attracted to her but not vice versa, get a lot of shit. Men in the “one-up” form, where she is attracted to him but he is not providing the impetus to have sex, have a pleasant experience, and oddly the women don’t seem to mind it either.

Therefore, men are ill advised to adjust their behavior for the possibility they will meet, and even marry, you. If they do meet you and find that you’re different, and they don’t think you’ll go full-bitch on them in 5-10 years when attraction wanes , well who knows …

Related to (3), consider your relationships where there is no sexual attraction on either side, your relationships with other women. Even your female friends. Aren’t you pretty competitive? Aren’t you pretty unpleasant to each other. Wouldn’t you throw each other under the bus pretty easily?

Men’s friendships are more pleasant than this, because men are more pleasant than women when sexual attraction is not in play.

Regarding my relationships with other women: I guess I’m the exception to the rule, sometimes. When I’m in a LTR, I’m a harmless little kitten to other women. They know I don’t steal bf’s, I dress conservatively, and I spend most of my time with my head in a book. I’m no threat. Generally, I’m kept away from the bf’s (I’ve met my bff’s bf all of two times in the four years they were dating). Our relationships have no competition, or jealousy, or backstabbing, until i’m single. Understandably so. Then, it’s like I have no girlfriends. Rumors are spread, I “accidentally” don’t get invited, snarky comments are made. Powerful women don’t co-exist naturally, I could explain why another time.
Honestly, it’s not easier/harder as a female, it’s just different.

” … no competition, or jealousy, or backstabbing, until i’m single. Understandably so. Then, it’s like I have no girlfriends. Rumors are spread, I “accidentally” don’t get invited, snarky comments are made. Powerful women don’t co-exist naturally,…”

In other words, women are mean bitches and they keep each other down.

They treat each other worse than the “patriarchy” ever did and ever will

False. Women do not treat each other worse than patriarchy ever did. If by patriarchy, you mean men, then you are only half right. A woman will never help another woman raise her reproductive value unless there is something in it for herself. Men are notably kinder to women than they are to each other, but only in hopes of reproduction. Patriarchy can’t “treat someone better”. It’s a social construct meant to be fair.

Also, there’s no reason why a woman can’t start having children while going to university and doing her degree part-time. They (I would imagine) would have a childcare centre there. Just make sure you lock-down the father in marriage first, and choose a father that will stick around (i.e. ambitious, straight-edged/laced, upper-middle class.)

First of all, what women have actually changed the world? Maggie Thatcher is the only one I can think of who did it more or less on her own. The other political figures mostly inherit their positions from hubby or daddy.

Second, you will eventually have to succumb to change diapers and shuttle kids to soccer unless you stay childless.

The usual career in HR, law, management whatever, yeah you’re running the usual risks once you dry out at 27-29 and the hot guys in the office suddenly are taken. Cats and the cubicle won’t be more exciting than being a soccer mom.

If you’re angling for changing the world with your awesome scientific insights, bitch please. Enough with that grandiose bullshit. If you’re actually that great then, as so many biographies tell us, you won’t let a little thing like daddy or a blog stop you.

So skip having a family if you feel like it, nobody really cares except your parents, but you might find you made the wrong choice in 10-20 years.

I inherited good genes from my family. My grandmother conceived my father at 50. Consequently, she didn’t have her first gray hair until that age. Same as my father. He’s 50-ish and yet to get his first gray hair. My mother’s in her 40’s and has the odd wrinkle or two. I won’t age for a long time. I don’t mind if the hot guys from my age get married off, I’ve always been more of a cougar. Cats and the cubicle might not be exciting, but I have many passions that keep me going. I play piano. I try to understand the big questions in life. I hike with my dog. I cook. I dance. I volunteer. I’m not scared of being alone, or childless. I’m scared of living a meaningless life.

I don’t understand why so many people are so negative and dismissive about the idea of a woman contributing something more than her vagina. It is mine isn’t it? I’m not trying to upset patriarchy, I’m thankful for it. Thankful for the education I get, thankful for every aspect of what men do for us women. I’m thankful for my parents bringing me into this world. I just want to fulfill my destiny now.

Oh, my mom’s the real feminist. She told me to hate men and to never get married because all men are assholes. So if I ever got married and had kids, it would really just be an act of rebellion.

As a woman, you have these 15-20 years of prime time to set up the rest of your life right, but if you instead choose to seek meaning or whatever, hey, take solace in my last words above: nobody really cares. At best, you’ll be fading from attention by 30 and fully invisible by 40; if you’re fine with that, well, just keep going.

In the meantime, we ask you to restrain any loud lamentations about life’s unfairness until you have reached the final destination. Thank you.

American women don’t like their men or treat them well. No man with options should consider marrying one. In the rest of the world, “high class” women would never criticize their men in public or to their friends because its a reflection on themselves.

Your intelligence won’t change the world. Nobody will remember anything you studied, published or discovered in 100 years from now on. Popular people now who we might think are the shit won’t be remembered in 100 years.

The biggest contribution to humanity a smart woman can make is have children because those children will be smart too. If you get a PhD and go along to discover something, you will work about 83,000 hours(40 hours a week, 52 weeks per year, 40 years). If you have 6 children and 3 are boys and they take the same career you would have chosen, they will contribute about 250,000 hours even if you don’t work a single hour in your career(vs 166k for you and a single kid). The discrepancy gets bigger with each generation.

1) You will never be more attractive or fertile than you are now.
2) The older you are the more likely any children will be to have genetic defects/birth disorders.
3) Your intelligence will peak in your 40s

You can do both, have a career/education and a family. But the classic way women do it today is the wrong way round. They waste the most fertile years of their youth chasing a career of some sort, then they spend their most intelligent/wisest years trying to get pregnant with a man that makes them sick to look at.

If I were a young woman, I would get myself a good man to start a family with in my twenties. Then, when the kids are older and I had more time, go after that education/career or whatever it is you want to do.

She was a full time mother to three children, and now that they’re a little older she’s doing a PHD. So basically she’s an example of what I’m talking about.

Ultimately it’s up to you. If you don’t want a family, don’t start a family, the world’s overpopulated enough as it is. If you don’t want a career, don’t have a career, I’d hate to be a Debbie Downer but you’re probably not going to be the next Einstein and change the world. If you want to do both, then do the sensible thing, do the physically demanding one during your peak physical years, and the mentally challenging one during your peak mental years.

Cleopatra, you have to use your brain. Otherwise it can cause mental illness. You do not have to use it competitively, but constructively.

You’ve embarked on an undergrad program. Finish it. Nobody can take your education away from you.

I don’t know if you have something unique to offer or not, but if you think that way, try to narrow this down. What do you have to offer intellectually? What training would it take to get to where you could offer it? To whom do you wish to offer it?

If you’re not sure about that, well maybe you’re just a smart girl who’s in college and asking if she should finish. Of course. And at the same time, find a man to settle down with. Then show him some real life biology.

I think I have a unique perspective on the changes occurring in the US between men and women and I’d either like to do research in hormone replacement or practice in that field. There are a lot of correlations between low T levels and poor health.

Looking at this as a marketer of research, which is what academics are: I was just hearing yesterday on the radio an ad for a testosterone supplement for men advertising weight loss, improved health, improved sex, etc. This insight is so far from novel it’s on sports talk show ads.

If you have unique perspective on the changes occurring between men and women, that’s what we talk about here. You’re welcome to join the conversation and your unique insights, but none of us have found a way to get rich off the insights as far as I know.

I think you’re interested in the area of endocrinology. Go to med school if you want to do that, in about 10 years you’ll be a young endocrinologist. But while you’re getting all those ample med school loans if not before, take in a man and have your babies. You’ll get thru med school if you get in, nobody flunks out unlike academic grad school.

I think what you have shown is interest and some ability, not a unique perspective. Sounds perfect for a practicing physician.

I’m thinking bigger picture than just improved health, sexual performance, etc. I’m talking about treating Alzheimer’s, improving mental well-being of autistic patients, ADHD’ers, bipolar, you name it. Low T levels affect such a broad population of individuals, like type 2 diabetes sufferers, even Aspie’s, that I feel like there is much that can be done to improve their conditions. Imagine treating the root of the problem, instead of masking the symptoms? I have a unique appreciation of T, as a woman, because I have very little of it.

Most cases of DIAGNOSED Aspergers are in men. It’s harder to detect in women. I’m not saying that the majority of patients are female, I’m saying that my patients will be low T, which I can empathize with, because I’ve struggled with low T my entire life. I understand the difficulties, such as decreased cognitive functioning, depression, weight gain, loss of motivation, as well as increased forgetfulness. Lack of libido. Some of these things are desirable in women, but almost never in men. Trust me, I know my stuff.
Google low T levels and type 2 diabetes and see what you find.

Amy, testosterone injections can work miracles for many people, but it’s just like taking diet pills. You see results while you’re still getting treatment, but as soon as you end treatment, you are likely to go back to square one. The key to get someone’s T levels up permanently is to change their entire lifestyle, mindset, diet (lots of foods are good for naturally raising T, such as broccoli or pomegranate), and also evaluate if there are other pre-existing conditions which are leading to lower T levels. Also, some people get negative side-effects from these injections, patients need to be monitored throughout the process. Some patients actually get higher estrogen levels as a result of getting injections and develop “bitch tits” aka gynecomastia. It’s not as simple as adding more testosterone into someone’s body, first you need to understand why there is a lack.

“My question is this: is it EVER acceptable for a woman to place her career above family?”

No.

Since you are clearly speaking of an all consuming type of career (some form of hard science) and not a casual one (say, for example, a nurse), then you need to make a choice to either pursue a career fully, or you invest yourself in your family fully.

Contrary to the idiocy of feminism’s propaganda, no grrrl, you can’t in fact Have It All! ™. No matter how intelligent you are, your female nature remains, and in a hard career you will become life level obsessed, utilizing the same psychological hooks which normal women utilize for family.

It’s also rather interesting that you believe that being a mother instead of a corporate worker is not utilizing your talents.

I’m not saying that there is no value in being a mother. I know from experience how difficult it is as a child to not have your mother around. I’m just trying to gauge if my brains justify not pursuing motherhood, or delaying it. I’m fully aware that you can’t have it all. I’m ok with that. Now I’m just trying to figure out where I belong. I’m not a feminist. But I also believe that we should use our talents to the best of our capabilities.

Well then, somebody further up gave a good suggestion. Be a mother, get married young, raise your children and when they are out of the house pursue a career. Seems the most healthy thing to do, psychologically, and it keeps you from starting a family that you end up loathing as an impediment to your career should you do it in reverse order. That or, as I said, make one choice or the other and stick with it.

End of the day your maternal wiring will cause you to devote yourself completely to whichever you choose first, so be careful not to start something that you will eventually abandon, causing pain and strife in people’s lives who did nothing to deserve it. That’s really all there is to know about it.

After watching you argue with everyone on this thread, it’s pretty clear you’re not cut out for the standard wife-and-mother thing. Pursue the science thing as long as you feel it’s a good idea, but remember that your fertility is declining, and if you want kids time may run out.

Everyone here says it doesn’t pay to achieve and scare men, and I think that’s true in many cases, but if you’re really that smart you might as well go the SWPL careerist route–it’s one way to land a high-value man, after all, through proximity. Play your cards right and you can find a successful tech baron who wants a smart woman to provide him with smart offspring. Be sure to locate in a city with a big tech industry like SF, Boston, or Raleigh-Durham.

That article says “cuckold” is the second most searched term in porn, after “youth.” Obviously there’s something appealing about it to a significant segment of the population… but I wonder how it breaks down by gender. I bet women are more into it than men.

Everyone should watch the first few minutes of her porn video where the man directing it is having a conversation with that “smart and educated” feminist, yet he is the one who sounds reasonable, articulate and rational

she is simply very dumb …in fact so dumb I kind of feel sorry for her, almost like she needs to be rescued as she is too dumb to know what she is doing

the rest of the video, the sex is more or less ordinary porn, mostly because she has an ordinary face, a dull body, tits too small, too skinny etc he spits in her face, slaps her around and fucks her but it is kind of boring, it’s been done a thousand times

the interview before the sex is quite good, it is worth it if only to show how the most normal person the most balanced of the two, the one is saner is the man making the porn, not her the “smart educated feminist”

Oh yeah and if you watch the whole thing, please tell me – anyone but especially if you are woman – how is that empowering for a woman to have a man grab her by the troath, choke her, spit in her face, slap her around rough her up, talk to her like she is a piece of shit, then fuck her like a $5 whore?

Yes many feminists not all but many are arguing ( on many forums) that what she is doing is empowering

If being degraded by a man is empowering to a female then dear feminists what is so wrong with rape? would that not make you feel even MORE empowered?

“Empowering” is code for “something I know I shouldn’t do makes me feel good so I’m going to do it”. Women empower themselves by violating boundaries. But since they’re all ruled by fear and can’t violate the boundaries themselves, they can only be empowered by the aid of men who will violate their boundaries for them.

I think the ratio of women who assert that they’re ’empowered’ by violating a social convention, to women who assert that they’re empowered by a professional or family accomplishment that respects social modesty, is 10-1? 20-1? 100-1?

It’s very easy to be a slut and claim accomplishment; it’s like Lena Dunham sitting nude on a toilet on TV, and calling it acting. So in this respect, to claim attention and assert a superior social status (the superior status of the woman above the rules), women may act like hookers. (This is technically not true, I guess, as hookers subscribe to a clear set of rules and don’t give it away.) A man in full may wish to high-5 such a transgressive, sex-positive Feminism 2.0 winner, if he can do so without giving away the game. Because that man will be hip-deep in promiscuous wenches who fancy themselves on the ramparts of the social transformation.

Yes. This I think is why women do threesomes. They have lesbian tendencies but they also think it’s gross, it’s just impossible for them to cross that boundary.

But the man provides the magic to cross that boundary.

Men have to understand how much magic they have to women. Any man, to any woman. (Maybe not if the woman is already attached to a man, but that’s as it should be.) All you have to do is not kill it by being beta. I really believe this is the big secret.

But sometimes I post something simply to annoy and exacerbate the feminists that I know are reading this.

or just to expose how illogical some of the things they say are

I was simply using their ” logic” against them ; if being abused by a man is empowering to a feminist then being abused even more – such as when raped – must be even more empowering, I am not saying I agree, I am simply using their words against them.

I am exposing how stupid they are using their own “logic” and if I can make a few angry as well then great.

The feminists I know would say that type of degradation play is an arcane fetish desired only by very damaged women. That’s total nonsense of course.

But they have to say that, because of course it’s not “empowering”. That’s the whole point– submission. So they can’t support it, and they look foolish if they try.

A rape fantasy is, obviously, a fantasy and thus controlled in a woman’s mind. It’s really more a fantasy about forced sex and submission. It has no correlation to reality. No one’s fantasizing about some fat drooling lunatic with a knife grabbing them in an alley.

[CH: So certain are you? Check the archives. Women have a lot of disturbing rape fantasies.]

Sexual act has an inherent violence in itself
No woman dreams of being raped by an leftoid metro-sexual
Do not believe me, ask Sylvia
—————————————————————————————
Not God but a swastika
So black no sky could squeak through
Every woman adores a Fascist,
The boot in the face,
the brute Brute heart of a brute like you
—————————————————————————————

I read. Nothing there surprises me or changes what I said. If you fantasize about nonconsent, you’re still controlling the overall scenario. It’s like me giving a man blanket consent to do anything he wants with me at any time, even if it hurts or is something I hate. I’m still consenting, because I’m consenting to *not* consent, to surrender total control, which is what makes the whole thing so hot.

Yes many feminists not all but many are arguing ( on many forums) that what she is doing is empowering
———————————————————————————————–

Lets face it, “empowerment” is all about being the fucker. The female equivalent of being the fucker instead of the fuckee is the ability to give good head. A feminist girlfriend once made me cum 5 times in one session using her expert oral technique. She was proud of her ability to do this I suspect because she saw it as some kind of power over our erections.

There is such an gigantic difference between how dumb she is when interviewed at the beginning of the porn and how relatively smart and articulate she sounds when she writes articles that I doubt she writes her own material.

watch the video, the woman is very dumb, borderline retarded, how could she write as if she was bright???

I think the breeding stock in the USA just might not be as good at that level. Good families, successful families, stayed in the old country. US and Canadian immigrants were ambitious folk who were not making it there. They were middle class or below. Australian immigrants were mainly criminals who were dumb enough to get caught. Such people,especially the USA pool (excluding the hispanic invasion of losers from the south, and slave descendants of losers from Africa) is capable of producing a decent number of standout males,but the rarer standout female is pretty few and far between here, and hard to identify in the flood of pretty-good females who ride the wave of affirmative action to all the top credentials.

Weird thing is even educated women think of babies at 30 years, by 35 they contemplate quick marriages, so they can pump out a couple of full term sprogs. More progressive ones just want sperm and a good Dad that may give up time from his first family, sort of like a second wife.. Weird I know. Extension of the Alpha fux/Beta bux, perhaps some women realise they need to provide the bux for the Alpha sperms. Particularly if you’re a crafty fucker who can negotiate around the law of the land.😆

Perhaps even some of the highly educated women want to live the simple country bumpkin life. SWPL I know fantasise about it a lot.

CH have you heard of J. D. Unwin? From wikipedia page: In Sex and Culture (1934), Unwin studied 80 primitive tribes and 6 known civilizations through 5,000 years of history and found a positive correlation between the cultural achievement of a people and the sexual restraint they observe….According to Unwin, after a nation becomes prosperous it becomes increasingly liberal with regard to sexual morality and as a result loses it cohesion, its impetus and its purpose. The process, says the author, is irreversible:
“The whole of human history does not contain a single instance of a group becoming civilized unless it has been absolutely monogamous, nor is there any example of a group retaining its culture after it has adopted less rigorous customs.”

OH OH OH, BY THE WAY— Did you realize there is a “War on Women” except well… uhh…. there isn’t. And I thank a Western Woman for revealing the LIE. Western woman are greater than > ALL. They travel more, earn more, are more educated, et. al.

As our good black friends PUBLIC ENEMY told us in the 80s— ‘Don’t believe the hype!’

All the evidence you need here CH readers, and if some liberal cunts chants the party line smash her fucking face apart with this graphic please….

I do object to the confusion of IQ and education. My mother was High-IQ, but neither her nor my father were “educated” (for which I thank God for his grace). Yet until Game, I didn’t understand, e.g. in his convertible where he would buy an ice-cream for his dog (who would growl when mom got close to dad – this was before they were married). While not consciously a PUA, he had the alphatudes.

Now since I wish to have a brood of high-IQ, I would seek a high IQ woman, but I’m higher. That would be 150-160 on the Woman’s part were there no other differences.. In reality 180-200, maybe higher since the rationality is hamsterized.

The problem with HIQettes is their hamsters can go supersonic. Even hypersonic. And break unsound barriers with their rationalization. At that point, emotional or physical intervention may be necessary. (Q. Are you a dark-triad type? A. only when necessary, or convenient).

“Baudelaire, following de Maistre, regarded modernity as a recursion to sacrifice; and quite on his own, Baudelaire also regarded modernity as effeminate, as an abdication of manhood hence also of procedure, discrimination, and moral rigor. For Juvenal, too, with an invocation of whom the present discourse began, the decadence of society appeared, if not exclusively, yet signally, in effeminacy and the abdication of manhood, noticeably in the prevalence of eunuchs and homosexuals among the trend-setting, taste-making elites of the Imperial City, but also in the appropriation of religion by women. (The scholarly consensus, by the way, is that Juvenal was himself homosexual.) In Juvenal again, the reader discovers an anticipation of Baudelaire. What is the satirist’s image of the descent of the social order into formlessness and grossness? In Satire VI, Juvenal records a symptomatic ruckus in the forum: “Now here come the devotees / of frenzied Bellona, and Cybele, Mother of Gods, with a huge eunuch, a face for lesser obscenities to revere.” Rome has indeed, in Juvenal’s day and as he sees it, become one great continuous multicultural and feminist celebration, marked by the “solemn rant,” “Horoscopy,” and ready access to “the abortionist’s arts.”

Who Cares About Marrying a Rich Man? Intelligence and Variation in Women’s Mate Preferences

Abstract
Although robust sex differences are abundant in men and women’s mating psychology, there is a considerable degree of overlap between the two as well. In an effort to understand where and when this overlap exists, the current study provides an exploration of within-sex variation in women’s mate preferences. We hypothesized that women’s intelligence, given an environment where women can use that intelligence to attain educational and career opportunities, would be: (1) positively related to their willingness to engage in short-term sexual relationships, (2) negatively related to their desire for qualities in a partner that indicated wealth and status, and (3) negatively related to their endorsement of traditional gender roles in romantic relationships. These predictions were supported. Results suggest that intelligence may be one important individual difference influencing women’s mate preferences.

[…] It’s hardly a secret, even among the SWPL hypocrati, that IQ is important to individual life outcomes, (and, on a grander scale, to a nation’s civilizational supremacy), that it correlates to a host of happy behavioral traits, and that dysgenic… […]

Just got a text out of the blue from an ex ex ex gf who I dumped 5 years ago. She suddenly contacted me 18 months later and we hung out…then one night I went to her city on business, she met me at my hotel and she was all over me, gave me a massage but we never banged. That was 3 years ago.

She contacts me the other day to say she just broke up with her Long-Distance bf. I’m like just totally not giving a shit, she suggests meeting up I say ok.

She contact me again today by text:

Her: “I have a question am I too aggressive if I stay with you in the same bed without having sex? I just hope to have someone to hug. Stay in same bed.

me: I’m a man you’re a woman

Her: Is it not goo and things may turn complicated? ok ok

Me: no they wont

Her But no sex…can we

Me: “We both love to fuck…”

She replies with walls of text to my caveman replies of “I’m a man you’re a woman” and “it’s natural”

I wouldn’t budge so she suddenly withdrew the offer to meet up.

I didn’t respond.

Anyone else have this experience? I didn’t really put too much stock in the offer so I was firm…I would fuck her if we met up.

I think she was seriously looking for a teddy bear. I’m not that guy…I know several guys in my social circle who would totally be into this nonsense and then she would push back and it would be a blue-balls sleepless night.

No one ever proposed these terms so long in advance, but it’s certainly part of the first night ASD “I’m not like that” two-step. I just think it’s a particularly confused power trip, and I respond by getting up to sleep in another room or at home. That’s usually when she says” no no no no don’t leave” and we fuck.

I don’t think she was looking for a teddy bear per se because you are an inconvenient teddy bear. (Who needs a long distance teddy bear.) I suspect she wants to reboot the relationship with more of a courtship model, whereas your past is a bang! model, so I predict she’ll be back.

Last time we met up 2 years ago we made out, she gave me a massage but we never banged, so I wasn’t going to waste my night on this and agree to her frame. If the shoe was on the other foot and I contacted her after my crazy ex gf dumped me…what do you think she would have said? Please. I would have been pathetic and she would have thought I was a beta.

So I told her straight no cuddles but I would fuck her.

Far from turning her off…she ;ater she texted again on some flimsy premise: “Do you know anyone who volunteers?”

Me: “You’re interested in volunteering?”

Her: yes

Me; You can start by coming over and making me breakfast.

Her; Haha

To be honest, i’m using her as a practice proxy for text game and possibly if we do meet up to bang her.

Strongest play is not to say we have to have sex, but really to say you’re not that into her…which actually sounds like how you are feeling right now toward her given that there is no offer of sex. Don’t even bring up sex.

Her: “I have a question am I too aggressive if I stay with you in the same bed without having sex? I just hope to have someone to hug. Stay in same bed.

You: I’m not that interested in seeing you.

If she wants to have sex as a way to validate herself SHE’LL escalate from there.

Also, think of it this way. SHE set the boundary. You responded by dismissing her boundaries. That’s not going to work. You’re reacting to her boundary.

You could have said…”hook up with you? you’re crazy. last thing on my mind. I know you’re going to try to kiss me, and we’re not even going to play that game.” That creates YOUR own set of boundaries and may get her amped up to try to cross it, reacting to you.

I don’t think you really have hand now though, since you already declared that you’re playing react-to-her game. Maybe if she reaches out again in a month.

The trends of high IQ pairing with high IQ are well documented by Charles Murray in the ‘Coming Apart’. It’s taken me a while to realise this, but this trend is a significant factor in the pervasiveness of feminism. Ignoring women for the moment, the question is why do elite males tolerate this bullshit?

1. Feminism gets tacit approval from elite males because their sons are less affected by it. Belmont’s (Murray) women are slimmer, more feminine, more respective of a work ethic and their marriages are more secure. You wanna see a slim attractive woman? Go to a wealthy area.

2. Feminism gets tacit approval from elite males, because they want their daughters to enact hypergamy from a higher starting base. If my daughter is a secretary she will only marry a middle management executive. But, If my daughter is a lawyer, she will marry a partner in a practice. A doctor will marry a consultant etc etc

The second point is critical. Elite men want their daughters to marry more elite men. Feminism tricks them into thinking it will be easier for their daughter to do this, and ensures (in their mind) that their daughter wont be seduced by a ‘cocky funny’ average guy.

Posted a longer response which got eaten by wordpress so I’ll keep this brief.

One of the reasons why elite males tacitly support feminism is because they think it will help their daughters marry the sons of elite men. They want to ensure that their daughters are starting on the hypergamy ladder from a higher base, so their daughter doesn’t end up with a ‘cocky funny’ average guy.

I have no problem with highly educated women and especially not intelligent women. It’s the women who put their career first who you don’t really want anything to do with long term, and they also happen to more often than not be highly “educated” (often “educated” in some useless dogma).
Being a mathmagician myself, girls with maths/physics degrees get me hot (provided they are also hot).

The key thing is somehow getting a handful of babies out of a smart woman.

But don’t worry, what passes for educated women are not nearly as smart are people believe. Keep in mind that the increase in female degree-holders is being inflated by social science and liberal arts degrees. How smart can someone really be if she decided to major in sociology? Or believe in feminism? Or equality?

We should discuss: how to find really smart girls. They are rare, far rarer than equally smart men, and they are great breeding stock. But it’s hard to pick them out from the flood of affirmative action females who are also doing great in school and career.

I’d say, look for women who excel at a really high level. Performing arts make it easy to pick them out, and they don’t give extra help to women because they are female dominated anyway. Concert violinists, professional ballet dancers (they’re usually broken down by about 25 and need to settle down), etc. Strong women, but strong to the point of having beaten out 500 other women for their spot, not for beating men.

Also some female athletes, like ice skaters and so on. It takes brains as well as physical coordination to do these things and WIN.

I think the reason why a lot of top 2 percent guys go for the smarter ladies is precisely because smarter women have fewer options and it’s easier to maintain them. The nerd can put her on autopilot to run her own career while he focuses on his own obsessions. It’s a way to avoid learning how to be a man. And let’s face it, the higher you go up the IQ ladder, the weirder guys get. Some will never have the social skills to maintain a regular woman.

It would seem so, since your thesis is that successful men are successful with successful, intelligent women because they wish to ‘avoid learning how to be a man.’ And that intelligent women are low-maintenance.

That is not at all my ‘thesis’ but I can see how you would think that. Intelligent women are most definitely not low maintenance in the general sense. Anyone who has seen ‘Blue Jasmine’ would know this. No my main point was that highly intelligent women as Heartiste says above are not the most gorgeous or the most socially skilled and so they have fewer options for men, especially alpha men with actual muscles who are more likely to see them as not worth their time. Compare this to a 110 IQ hottie who is socially skilled, fecund, and fun to be around. All kinds of men will be interested in her, not just smart men. She’s also far less likely than the 140 IQ woman to be autistic, which is hard enough on guys, but for women it’s a killer. Yes, bartender, tell me about that woman over there with the thick glasses and the minecraft tee shirt wearing mens boots and noise cancelling headphones…. Uh, no. But please, keep being obtuse and assuming I’m a fool if it makes you happy. I find this attitude far too common among men who consider themselves intelligent: meet an opinion you don’t like? Assume the guy is an idiot.

“How many readers have real experience dating and fucking blue city SWPL chicks? I mean, on the order of 30 or more lovers? If you do, then you know how much coke overeducated girls hoover up their dainty noses.”

“…find a cute girl with an associates or bachelors degree, 105-115 IQ, under 27-years-old, with no children and no stated feminist beliefs, whose greatest career aspiration is nursing or teaching and sucking the life force out of your two standard deviation schlong on the daily. If you can do that, all worries about an impending dysgenic disaster will fade to irrelevance.”

Feeling good. I married my wife when I was 27 and she was 21. She was enrolled in community college when I met her (she was 19) and eventually gained an associates of nursing degree, which she used to work as a nurse for under two years, at which time she stopped working to have our first baby. She has been at home ever since, and is very happy being there with our kids. Even the traditionally feminine role of being a nurse was very stressful and hectic for her, and she was really happy to leave it behind and devote herself to people who share her DNA and surname. I can’t imagine trying to live with any of the girls I met in college, all of whom were default feminists and/or sluts.

The article is on point. Every relationship I’ve had with normal/somewhat below normal intelligence women have been leaps and bounds more satisfying than ones with “intelligent” women.

The “intelligent” women generally spend most of their waking hours questioning my every decision, second guessing how I “should have done XYZ”, and generally challenging my every word and thought. These are shit tests, but they are constant, never stop and are continually generated and re-generated to the point that there’s no enjoyment in being with the girl after a short time. I’ve never met a girl smarter than I am (not saying there aren’t any), so being constantly questioned and challenged over even the most minute shit, when it’s clear that I’m making good calls/decisions, is frankly obnoxious and boring.

Average or even slightly subpar intelligence girls accept my authority, generally, and understand that I’m better equipped to make decisions. I will get the occasional “but why” or foot stomping bratiness, but it’s not the same as “No, look, XYZ needs to be this, not what you said, accept my authoritah!”. In other words, I don’t feel like I’m at constant war and continually need to justify my every action, and even when the shit tests surface, they are far easier to bat away.

And sex. The average/subpar seem to really be better in bed, all things considered. They *want* to keep you around, and they really seem to be more animalistic and enjoy the act for the sheer carnal pleasure of it all, not needing 15 step checklists of “well, do this, this, this, this, this and this first, then I’ll think about taking off my panties and then don’t expect anything even vaguely exciting” like the “intelligent” broads. Average/subpar are fighting to keep you around and will go to great lengths to please you, “intelligent” figure “I don’t need a man!” and then go and prove it by repelling every swinging dick in a three country area around their home.

There’s a lot of wisdom in this post, and I agree wholeheartedly with you in large part.

However … one thing against your suggestion to look for less educated women with lower career aspirations: they are lower class and their dating histories are littered with low-information losers who wear Affliction tshirts. I feel a visceral disgust for women who have been defiled by people like that. Education is, to a large degree, an indicator of class, and your chances of finding a relatively chaste woman are higher in the ranks of the highly educated.

Anyone who doesn’t want to be with me because my IQ is higher than his is precisely the kind of man I wish to avoid. Thank you for making my life that much easier by encouraging them to self-select the hell away from me.

You’re intelligent enough, as things go, and clearly we share many political beliefs and attitudes. But, that being said, I’m well aware of your capacity to constantly challenge every word I’d say if we were in a relationship, and by God, you’d do just that. Every. Single. Day. Intelligent women shit test at 100 miles a minute and it never, ever stops. When it seems like it’s stopped that has always meant that she was plotting a more subtle way to shit test, in my experience.

Tell me frankly, and I’m being serious, assuming we met (we won’t, just assume) and you were attracted to me (which would likely be the case), in what possible way could you sell yourself as even vaguely interesting, given your above average intelligence? You know you’d spend half of your entire mental capacity looking for ways to challenge everything I’d say or do, right, so what would be the selling point? We share a political ideology, clearly, and have a love of shooting, which is great, but that really wouldn’t be enough to put up with what would become, in time, constant schemes and tests the likes of which less intelligent women wouldn’t vex me with. Serious question that you may want to consider, given as the alternative to men like me are, basically, to accept being with a beta schlub or omega who is more than happy to be dominated constantly.

Constant shit tests, challenging everything you say and do and constant scheming are not the hallmarks of high intelligence; they are the behaviors of someone who may have a personality disorder. Or who just doesn’t like you very much. But that’s not what you asked me, so on to my answer:

If I met you and was attracted to you, I’d try to make you laugh. That’s what I do when I meet anyone I want to get to know better; people’s responses to humor can tell you a great deal about them without making them feel like you’re analyzing them.

In re: your comment about “accepting being with a beta schlub,” I’m afraid I’m going to have to make a confession: I personally don’t believe in this whole alpha/beta construct at all. (Even wolves don’t really order their behavior that way; the original studies that hypothesized how their packs function were based on non-familial groups of wolves living in zoo environments.) In my experience, there are people who are natural leaders, and people who are natural followers, and that these occur with the same general frequency in both sexes.

It’s rote memorization, cattiness and more and faster rationalization.

Perhaps she has memorized lots of stuff but switch to subjects that require logical thought and you realize she’s a fool. Ask her to take the things she’s memorized and use it to construct something or explain how it works in detail and the pretense is over.

Women do not truly understand much of anything so it’s merely irritating when they try.

It’s like when they say “you can’t handle a strong, independent woman”.

Some men have fantasies of hooking up with a female version of themselves, in so far as meaningful conversation can take place, but it can never really exist. We’re too different. The things we have in common are pretty superficial and don’t provide the same level of satisfaction as having a focused, challenging, logical discussion with another man.

It isn’t because women are stupid, they simply don’t have an interest in engaging in raw, masculine endeavors. Intellectual discussion without feminine bias being one of them.

Women just can’t seem to turn it off. Look at the female audience during a stand up comedy show. They seem more focused on being offended than sitting back and appreciating the truth in humor. In fact, they often times are quite uncomfortable, unless men are the butt of a joke.

What I wonder is how reproductive health plays a role in this. And I mean at all levels. Only non-promiscuous and health protecting women are not going to have “too” much trouble conceiving at 33-37 years of age. By this I mean the women with low number counts and women who constantly practice safe sex, mostly within relationships. So, let’s say n=1-5 partners. This is a increasingly small percentage of women, though they do exist. This was probably a lot higher with the baby boomers and even Gen x. I have seen some studies that say the average boomer had 3 partners, with most of the promiscuous ones having less that 10, and usually married and had children with their second or third….often to later divorce them, but I will stay on topic.

Today, that is just unlikely. I know a lot of boomers who naturally conceived in their 30s, some as late as 38, and have healthy and adjusted kids. But they also tend to be upper-middle class and religious, but strangely also very feminist and liberal. Think Anglicans/Episcopalians. So, how is this going to work out for my Gen Y bitchy peers? Most, from my experience, have had a dozen partners by the time they were 19 or so if they didn’t go to University or attended a two year program. The ones that I know who were on the University and Masters track started later but racked up those same numbers by the time they were 23. And they still have another decade or so, if they follow their boomer mothers trajectory, before getting married and popping out 1.5 kids.

Things as simply as untreated cases of the clap can reek havoc on women’s already limited reproductive potential. Add in the fact that by the time women reach their 30s and 40s something like 80% have HPV(it never actually goes away, the body just tends to adapt to most strains because it is a virus that has a high cellular transformational factor, and our bodies either succumb to virus’s, aka cancer in HPV’s case, or create anti-bodies which permanently alters the cellular structure). With just those two diseases and how they effect the immune and reproductive systems, added with the physical trauma of cysts developing due to aggressive sex and bruising of the ovaries also, what role does this play on reproductivity? Then there is just the genetic decay too.

I also wonder how many of these pre-menopausal women are using some sort of reproductive technology? That sort of thing tends to be kept hush-hush, especially in cases of autism and other developmental disorders. Who the fuck wants to admit that they spent tens of thousands of dollars to have a retarded child?

Lately, feminists like to point towards some biased studies showing that older mean are the cause of some of these birth defects but I really wonder how much of it is due to reproductive tech. We know that the outer membrane of an Ova has all sorts of not-very-well-understood chemical reactors that can welcome in certain types of sperm and repel other types. We also know that there are different types of sperm, and possibly even more types of sperm, and eggs, than we even know about currently, like Kamikaze sperm and some types that seem maldeveloped and retarded. How do we know that the higher rate of autism and other developmental disorders in children conceived by repro tech isn’t do to interfering in the natural order? Aka, doctors picking substandard sperm and implanting it into substandard eggs?

One thing is for certain, in my generation the rate of repro tech, of all types, is going to continue to skyrocket. We already have dysgenic effects of sperm donors fathering hundreds of children. Combine that with a new class of high IQ sociopaths and retards and the future is going to be one fitness inspired segregated society.

This is why I go to CH. I love the labels he comes up with. I will be using this one for that type of personality. I’ve met so many women with good jobs and already with degrees who are “going back to school”. They make me sick. It’s all a substitute because they can’t find a man to bond with.

I scanned this. I captured only a bit, but I read the beginning. Wow. To know you exist. To know people like you exist- it sums up everything I’m thinking coming together. You got the concerns over modern women and love and sexuality and eros. You got the fears of dysgenics and desire for eugenics. You talk about northern european stock of all things. You talk about over educated women. You talk of cohabitational raising of children. Yes yes 1000x yes. Can’t believe. I”d be where you’re at if I could work hard and build a career, and get more success with women- that is in converting attraction into lays, and indifference into more attraction. Or simply the enjoyment of life, which is what I’m going for now. You really are brilliant sir. I won’t read this much because it will distract me from my studies in accountancy, and my work and so on, because time is precious, but we are definitely going parallel. We need to incentivize northern eurpoean stock to breed and become fertile, and those with high IQ as well. Just today an Indian man and an American women came in to speak about their careers in public accounting. I looked with envy that this Indian probably had a traditional wife, supporting him, because he talked once about the value of marriage partner who is supportive, and knowing his culture, I assumed something- and she, she is hypereager to enjoy her life. Now I’m beginning to rant. Save me. But don’t save me, save our race and heritage, from the lies and dogma and white women’s greed for self-fulfillment at the expense of their heritage and purpose! I was just reading yesterday about women’s finishing schools. They were accusing National Socialists of having a finishing school in so many words, but no different from what happens elsewhere. Now we have an inversion of values. We need a revaluation of all values. I see where you’re coming from. And the men need to be strong, and no fear the smear. This is a war. It’s been said by a very wise man that “Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live”. The same goes for work. Arbeit. Now I better get back to mine. We have to delimit society which is out of control, and maybe they want it that way, to achieve a slow death. I was just reading yesterday about how the idea that mixing of sub species in he animal kingdom is rare if ever seen, and how many truths are in plain sight but are unseen by the masses- that we have the chance to have 1000s of Columbuses, who can show us these ’round earth’ ideas. This was also said by that wise man. Bottom line: A man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do, and let no one or no communist or egalitarian slander you, or don’t be bothered by it. End of rant. My respects to the author of this blog -and may I learn to delimit my knowledge so it doesn’t control me, as he has learned to delimit his.

Great points, but all you had to do was post a video of the first few minutes of Idiocracy. Mike Judge is a genius. He can present such thought provoking ideas in a down-to-earth way with the fewest words.

This is OT. Read a post yesterday that described “49ers” in an article about how some new dating service is flying NY women to San Francisco. My first reaction was that he might be ragging my favorite football team.

No. It’s for female “4”s who think they are “9”s. A perfect shorthand that fits Bay Area/Blue State women.

“Women are freezing their eggs as part of a career strategy. They know being a mother will rule them out of promotions, so they are buying themselves extra time in order to climb as far as they can up the career ladder first “

iq im pretty sure my woman would not be very high on iq test but I did give her my ideas and numbers made about 30 calls in an hour then throughout the day received the calls from various places and got the the information gathered to be able to implement an idea of mine
now just have to see implementation ability this summer
my wife makes shit happen also not high iq test material
both high on survivability
both have made money in top one percent of income though he he he
had the woman out yesterday my second mom was just staring at her
like how did you get your face so white
you look like a doll like perfect
she hot as fuck
I’ve pretty much proved smarter than one in 40,000 people so uhh yea
everyone want to throw out iq’s only iq test I need he he he

If you want to have kids you should do what I plan on doing: going on a tour across eastern europe and having condomless sex with as many broads as possible. Don’t give them your real name, address, or contact information. Tell them you don’t need to wear condoms because you have had a vasectomy. Sure, most of those concieved will end up in the dumpster behind the abortion clinic but others are bound to live. I think the best age to do this is in your 30s at the earliest, because there is a very real chance of contracting AIDS.

Don’t marry an uneducated South American “traditional” woman either. Even if she grew up in South America, after she’s lived in the USA a while, she will have YKW-infested “divorce fantasy” lies whispered into her ear by her single girl friends. Because of hypergamy and the natural beta-ization that must occur at least somewhat, even for Ya Really when he gets married, in a loooong LTR, the woman *will* eventually get unhaaaaaappy, and the only protection is (used to be) the force of law and social mores in favor of marriage, which we no longer have. It is a “lose lose” proposition for any man today considering an LTR or marriage. I guess as some of you say the LTR outside of marriage is okay as long as you just enjoy it and are okay with the fact that it has a 6 to 30 month time limit. But marriage and family–today there is no hope because of Betty YKW Friedland and her ilk creating no-fault divorce.

As CH says, unfortunately, the only solution is poolside while it lasts.

I really have a hard time believing these high-rise playboy bachelor accounts on here. Whatever to make you feel better…this is a good site for lower or middle tier amateurs looking to improve their game but if you’re in the upper echelons of society, banging “playmates of the year” and the like….you really are already there, man. The spare time to post on here much less develop a reputation just makes it a hard sale for me. I’m an engineer with a modest group of friends, a solid hobby and 2 or 3 plates spinning at a time and I barely have much time much less care to spend it on manosphere blogs.. Banging models and clanging glasses with big timer socialites? Last place I’d be is talking big game on a blog comments section every day.

I entirely disagree, and I am grateful that my illustrious ancestors did not agree either. When you get a couple with dual 150+ IQ’s, you are setting the stage for a dynasty. Your last name will linger through the centuries.

Your wife is your brood mare and should be as well bred as anything on any thoroughbred farm. Do you want to be proud of your sons? Or, do you want middling offspring that bring shame to your family? I dare say that genetic fitness and youth are the #1/#2 traits of a wife.

Steer your sons to med school and law school: one to handle your legal matters, the other your health issues as you age.

As far as managing your bitchy feminist poseur genius wife, well I guess that’s what game is for. I think that a big boy can handle a pseudo intellectual wife/product of cultural Marxism if you get her young enough.

This leads to the final conclusion. You need to marry young and pour your mad skillz with the ladiez into the more fruitful venture of marrying your genetically superior young bride to establish your dynasty and ensure a dignified old age.