Can you imagine the firestorm if Twin was unbanned long enough that new and old people picked up the deck and foiled it out only to have a "oops, this needs to go away again" 6 months or a year later? Ick.

If it was actually and genuinely a problem that was destroying Modern, they could very easily remedy it by banning Deceiver Exarch, like they should have in the first place (or, you know, see that it's totally fine in today's faster, and significantly more powerful and punishing Modern.

I would love nothing more than for them to find out. Especially since the fear is even more unfounded than the baseless fear drummed up around AV and Jace; mostly thanks to the myths and legends being exaggerated to ludicrous levels for the past 3 years.

(Let's also remember that GGT was legal in the format for a year, and it took threeadditionalcards printed in rapid succession to break the deck to pieces).

Garvin Verhey
Snowpocalypse aside, #SCGCON was a blast! The whole crew ran a great show, I saw so many friends new and old, and did some very fun panels I can't wait for you to all watch. Standard, Modern, and UMA (among others) are really sweet and fun right now. Good times, all!
#wotcstaff

So, we have this (new) above tweet from Garvin Verhey on twitter, saying that "Modern is really fun right now". This probably could be a one liner B&R text. This also probably indicates that they did not seriously thought about banning anything in Modern during the last DCI meetup for the latest B&R announcement. Having a fun format is really important in their eyes, as they stated in the past. Remember:

I will not be replying to rebuttals that are not at least as fleshed out as my assertion. If you're grown up enough to use the internet, you are grown up enough to understand that posturing, nit picking, and corner cases are not enough to constitute a rebuttal to an argument. You will attack my argument in full or you will not be getting a response from me.

I played against and watched some Izzet Phoenix players at my FNM last night. For some reason seeing it play in person makes me want to buy more into the deck than when I watched it streamed. It feels as though the Shadow decks may have some game against the Phoenix decks, too.

The deck may have some difficulty if modern became very fair---but it looks solid, man. I'm really on board with non-combo decks either having a low land count or some serious turbo xerox to them now. Some Twin advocates said in this thread that they didn't want to play Grixis nor Jeskai or UW...well, here you go, a buttery smooth UR deck. It looks like it plays just enough disruption to slow down these aggro and combo decks. The deck looks like it's here to stay. I'm sure there will be some meta shifts to reel it back into tier 2 status at some point in the year...but it looks good.

Do you guys think Sprits is really here to stay? The thing that makes me think Humans may be the better tribal deck is the fact that Humans is in EVERY set, right? I feel as though the deck has the chance of being a lesser stagnant tribal deck than, well, any tribal deck.

I do know one thing, I was wrong about humans being a flash in the pan and I thought Arclight was just a fun, bad card in these Mono Red Runaway decks. Seeing Izzet Phoenix play with Merriam Ross in the finals definitely had me doing a 180.

There may be humans in every set, and just because they are 'good' doesn't mean they will improve the deck. The Humans core is very tight. There's 3, 4 flex slots maximum.

When Militia Bugler was revealed, the humans ban-mania (at the time) went to an all-time high. In actuality, Militia Bugler turned out to just be a solid choice. The humans community are pretty split on the more value oriented Bugler build or Heretic Cathar / Kessig Malcontents more aggressive build. After that fiasco got settled, there were similar reactions to Tajic and plaguecrafter being the next things to push humans over the edge, neither of which are seeing play.

Unless WOTC prints something like a strictly better mantis rider/reflector mage/lieutenant type of core card, new humans will only serve to diversify builds, not increase its power level.

Based on that I think that Spirits and Humans will remain at roughly the same level of viability even though humans gets more cards.

Edit: Also because SPirits gets to play coloured non-creature SB cards. RiP and Stony Silence will always be relevant unless WOTC actually prints those effects on human creature cards.

Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this

If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.

Can you imagine the firestorm if Twin was unbanned long enough that new and old people picked up the deck and foiled it out only to have a "oops, this needs to go away again" 6 months or a year later? Ick.

Well, they could put it on "probation", letting the player base know upfront that it is only un-banned for the next however many months and it will be specifically re-evaluated then as to whether it will remain un-banned (still on probation or not) or be moved back to the ban list. That might help against the rush and temper expectations.

I played against and watched some Izzet Phoenix players at my FNM last night. For some reason seeing it play in person makes me want to buy more into the deck than when I watched it streamed. It feels as though the Shadow decks may have some game against the Phoenix decks, too.

The deck may have some difficulty if modern became very fair---but it looks solid, man. I'm really on board with non-combo decks either having a low land count or some serious turbo xerox to them now. Some Twin advocates said in this thread that they didn't want to play Grixis nor Jeskai or UW...well, here you go, a buttery smooth UR deck. It looks like it plays just enough disruption to slow down these aggro and combo decks. The deck looks like it's here to stay. I'm sure there will be some meta shifts to reel it back into tier 2 status at some point in the year...but it looks good.

Do you guys think Sprits is really here to stay? The thing that makes me think Humans may be the better tribal deck is the fact that Humans is in EVERY set, right? I feel as though the deck has the chance of being a lesser stagnant tribal deck than, well, any tribal deck.

I do know one thing, I was wrong about humans being a flash in the pan and I thought Arclight was just a fun, bad card in these Mono Red Runaway decks. Seeing Izzet Phoenix play with Merriam Ross in the finals definitely had me doing a 180.

I do believe that fair decks (BGx, UWx, GDS) could be tuned to take out Phoenix if it sticks around as a top presence. It is very smooth, and quite fun I jammed it all weekend.

Edit: Also because SPirits gets to play coloured non-creature SB cards. RiP and Stony Silence will always be relevant unless WOTC actually prints those effects on human creature cards.

Pardee and you make the same claim. My build of humans plays more fetch/shock and my SB has RiP and Stony Silence that play just fine. (This mana base also slightly helps play gaddock and knight of autumn.) I also beat spirit 2-1 this week-end. (He did mull to 5 the last game though. Finished out of top 8 due to tie-breakers.)

PS: my human deck also plays spell queller in SB and selfless spirit main. I feel like the two decks are coalescing a bit, with spirit playing reflector and I'd not be surprised if they ended-up playing meddling mage at some point.

Do you guys think Sprits is really here to stay? The thing that makes me think Humans may be the better tribal deck is the fact that Humans is in EVERY set, right? I feel as though the deck has the chance of being a lesser stagnant tribal deck than, well, any tribal deck.

I do know one thing, I was wrong about humans being a flash in the pan and I thought Arclight was just a fun, bad card in these Mono Red Runaway decks. Seeing Izzet Phoenix play with Merriam Ross in the finals definitely had me doing a 180.

I agree with everything @Renegade Rallier replied on the topic of Humand vs. Spirits as a deck. There is one thing i'd like to add though.
Spirits have better evasion and built in protection. As a Humans player i feel slightly unfavored vs Spirits.
My guess is that Spirits have a better "fair" matchup whereas Humans do better against "unfair" strategies for their disruptive power.

It is however, very easy to try new things with the humans tribe and support is, and will always be plenty. As stated before, of last year, only Militia Bugler has made the cut, and even that card can be a little slow sometimes. Not really counting Knight of Autumn as it basically replaces Reclamation Sage (also a non human) in every GWx deck around.

Since this is my first reply in this topic, i'd like to add that i'm pretty fine with modern in my meta. I play modern magic with friends and at FNM level, and i always encounter various decks and play various decks myself. Never feel really overpowered by others. and have a lot of fun regularly.
For reference, My friends play Dredge and Hollow One, amonst the more degenerate stuff. But also Mardu Pyro, Jeskai Tempo, GBx, Ponza, UR thing and more. What i have experienced is that Dredge and Hollow one but also the "stirrings" decks KCI/Tron are beatable, but make for pretty exciting games.

I have a feeling most pro Twin users are, judging by their signature, highly invested in the UR colors and would love to play those very expensive cards at the top level. Which is totally understandable, and thus they preach for a Twin Unban with reasonably fair arguments. But the financial investment alone would cloud objective perspectives to some degree.
On that same note others would love to add current bannted stuff to their decks. Fair creature toolbox players would love GSZ and so would i. Same goes for SFM, which i'd love to try in abzan or even Humans :). The fact that i play those decks makes me slightly biased.

I'm curious what wizards is going to do in 2019, but i wouldn't be let down if they changed nothing.

"The thing that makes me think Humans may be the better tribal deck is the fact that Humans is in EVERY set, right? I feel as though the deck has the chance of being a lesser stagnant tribal deck than, well, any tribal deck."

Knight of Autumn is an upgrade for any deck that can support Green and White. The conversation is about continued direct support down the line for Spirits vs Humans specifically with regards to the core creature type.

Read between the lines a little bit. Does everything need to be defined to the letter or are you just being pedantic for the sake of it?

Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this

If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.

If he play it, if it's new, he need to count it. It is a great upgrade for humans, like a great upgrade for elves even it is no Elve. Vial is not a human too, so we don't count it?

No, if I am building a human deck for say, casual kitchen table magic, and I go to Gatherer and type in "Human", Aether Vial will not show up. This conversation was regarding the Human subtype for creatures, not about what upgrades/staples are in the humans deck.

I have a feeling most pro Twin users are, judging by their signature, highly invested in the UR colors and would love to play those very expensive cards at the top level. Which is totally understandable, and thus they preach for a Twin Unban with reasonably fair arguments. But the financial investment alone would cloud objective perspectives to some degree.

Its not this. I could play near anything, as I spent 3 years in the wilderness (still am really) looking for the 'feel' of a deck, more so than what it is. My financial investment is irrelevant as I've spent far more post Twin, than I did ON Twin.

I have a feeling most pro Twin users are, judging by their signature, highly invested in the UR colors and would love to play those very expensive cards at the top level. Which is totally understandable, and thus they preach for a Twin Unban with reasonably fair arguments. But the financial investment alone would cloud objective perspectives to some degree.

Its not this. I could play near anything, as I spent 3 years in the wilderness (still am really) looking for the 'feel' of a deck, more so than what it is. My financial investment is irrelevant as I've spent far more post Twin, than I did ON Twin.

I feel your pain. I'll be very sad the day amulet titan finally dies due to meta shift, bans, etc.

I have a feeling most pro Twin users are, judging by their signature, highly invested in the UR colors and would love to play those very expensive cards at the top level. Which is totally understandable, and thus they preach for a Twin Unban with reasonably fair arguments. But the financial investment alone would cloud objective perspectives to some degree.

Its not this. I could play near anything, as I spent 3 years in the wilderness (still am really) looking for the 'feel' of a deck, more so than what it is. My financial investment is irrelevant as I've spent far more post Twin, than I did ON Twin.

I feel your pain. I'll be very sad the day amulet titan finally dies due to meta shift, bans, etc.

Thing is, Amulet Titan still exists. In fact, if you can see the latest online RPQT results, it just took it down. And I think there is another copy in the "top8". It is a viable and competitive deck. Not so long ago, it had a GP final I think.
UR kiki jiki is useless

I will not be replying to rebuttals that are not at least as fleshed out as my assertion. If you're grown up enough to use the internet, you are grown up enough to understand that posturing, nit picking, and corner cases are not enough to constitute a rebuttal to an argument. You will attack my argument in full or you will not be getting a response from me.

I feel your pain. I'll be very sad the day amulet titan finally dies due to meta shift, bans, etc.

Yep. I've said it before. I dont wish anyone to lose their deck, I prefer unban's before anything. I mean its not about power to me. If it was, I wouldnt be playing what I am right now, and I would be on Phoenix, or GDS or Storm, or something like that.

I will not be replying to rebuttals that are not at least as fleshed out as my assertion. If you're grown up enough to use the internet, you are grown up enough to understand that posturing, nit picking, and corner cases are not enough to constitute a rebuttal to an argument. You will attack my argument in full or you will not be getting a response from me.

Good, good. I hope Grishoalbrand becomes a true tier 2 deck in the distant future (dedicated Grixis Shadow player, since before day 1 here)!
Bring it on

You monster

Metagame wise, I spent quite a bit of time observing the decks played at GP Liverpool over the three days. Main event and sides. Thousands of players.

My anecdotal read on what was there is that it was a fantastically positive spread of different strategies and within those strategies, different decks.

I saw innovation, plenty of evidence for good metagaming and balancing to combat perceived threats. I saw loads of variety and the good performing decks showed a lot of spread, too.

I'd say without question it was the most diverse I've seen the format since 2012.

An important observation perhaps, but Burn was always well-represented at GP events until now, and this weekend I hardly saw a goblin guide being cast (I mean, I did... But comparatively less than before, where burn was over-represented). Before I've seen 500-person side events where many players would face burn in all three rounds, but now from observation I saw so much different stuff going on, and from the accounts of players this diversification seems to be replicated not just from my personal anecdotal experience but from many others' experiences too.

Truly, despite individuals claiming the sky is falling (which seems to be a constant here) I think modern is better than it's ever been. It was a real eye opener, so different to what I expected (honestly I'd allowed myself to believe some of the negativity I've seen online and I was relieved to see reality disagreeing with those negative people)