Just screwing around on dummies I'm actually seeing no glyph demo doing a bit better than with the glyph. Especially with an aff haste/mastery setup. That said I'd use the glyph on fights with intense burn phases. I also think professions will make a difference...ie eng+herb might favor glyph use while a pair of passive 320 int professions will favor going glyphless. Amp almost always procs in the first few spells but I think the days of 600K+ demo openers are gone. Aff however opens really hard. I was testing w' 5xT16 though I wouldn't pursue the set bonus beyond the 2pc/soulfire buff. Aff I'd forget sets completely and just find the highest ilvl haste/mastery piece I could get.

Demo still gets less from KTT and cleave trinkets due to imps not functioning with those trinkets (nor the amp's crit bonus). Timeless is a fine trinket to pair with amp but we really have no heroic equivalent. Then again aff can't get its hands on a heroic BBoY till progression is done.

Just can't see destro being a solid spec choice in that the legendary meta still caps the gcd incredibly easy, aoe feels unsustainable on 4-6 targets, and the single target is so bad as to drop you like a rock the moment you aren't aoe'ing 10+ targets or havoc/shadowburn sniping. If we are balancing it on the assumption of only being viable when it can cheese mechanics then the mechanics need to change but I digress....

Just can't see destro being a solid spec choice in that the legendary meta still caps the gcd incredibly easy, aoe feels unsustainable on 4-6 targets, and the single target is so bad as to drop you like a rock the moment you aren't aoe'ing 10+ targets or havoc/shadowburn sniping. If we are balancing it on the assumption of only being viable when it can cheese mechanics then the mechanics need to change but I digress....

its kinda sad that destro is in such a bad spot single target wise, i like the spec better than demo but with destro being so bad, there is really no point in speccing destro at all. they really need to give it some much needed love or it will only be used on niche fights. there are so many ways of buffing destro's single target dps without it buffing its aoe.

Anyone play on the ptr this weekend and have some warlock thoughts? target dummy 'tests' mean absolutely nothing. Glyph of havoc gives us 2 chaos bolts I can confirm (i was dreaming 3, too good to be true).. will try out destruction vs affliction on flex tonight a few times.

Just screwing around on dummies I'm actually seeing no glyph demo doing a bit better than with the glyph. Especially with an aff haste/mastery setup. That said I'd use the glyph on fights with intense burn phases. I also think professions will make a difference...ie eng+herb might favor glyph use while a pair of passive 320 int professions will favor going glyphless. Amp almost always procs in the first few spells but I think the days of 600K+ demo openers are gone. Aff however opens really hard. I was testing w' 5xT16 though I wouldn't pursue the set bonus beyond the 2pc/soulfire buff. Aff I'd forget sets completely and just find the highest ilvl haste/mastery piece I could get.

Demo still gets less from KTT and cleave trinkets due to imps not functioning with those trinkets (nor the amp's crit bonus). Timeless is a fine trinket to pair with amp but we really have no heroic equivalent. Then again aff can't get its hands on a heroic BBoY till progression is done.

Just can't see destro being a solid spec choice in that the legendary meta still caps the gcd incredibly easy, aoe feels unsustainable on 4-6 targets, and the single target is so bad as to drop you like a rock the moment you aren't aoe'ing 10+ targets or havoc/shadowburn sniping. If we are balancing it on the assumption of only being viable when it can cheese mechanics then the mechanics need to change but I digress....

With the loss of UVLS, how is demo doing on the fights? What about affliction? Are they top ranking specs or are we going to be middle of the pack this tier?

"Actual numbers" from a sim that's been pretty poor for all three specs this entire expansion?

Anything is better than "I think it's not going to be as good as picking up well itemized off set pieces, but have no real numbers or testing to back it up."

Maybe the 4set won't be THAT great for single target, but I can see it being quite strong in AoE or cleave situations. However, I can't say for sure one way or the other because we don't have a large enough log sample, nor the simulations to back up either claim.

Anything is better than "I think it's not going to be as good as picking up well itemized off set pieces, but have no real numbers or testing to back it up."

Maybe the 4set won't be THAT great for single target, but I can see it being quite strong in AoE or cleave situations. However, I can't say for sure one way or the other because we don't have a large enough log sample, nor the simulations to back up either claim.

I'm not sure it matters that much. The only thing that can alter how many shards you are getting is killing mobs with Drain Soul. More shards means more procs from 4set, but it also means you will have an overflow anyway. Haunts that you don't channel MG/DS over are worth a lot less as well.

I agree we need a simulation for it, but I personally don't see any way our 4set can be stronger than extra haste/mastery.

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Originally Posted by Apero

Can somebody confirm if the 4set proccs of clipped haunts?

It does. Not sure how it works exactly mechanically, but it seems to just have a chance to proc every 8s after you applied a Haunt. In any case you can definitely get procs off Haunts that got clipped. Source: tested myself.

Because people spent too much time QQing about Immolate being a core part of Destruction and that "dispels counter us so hard". So, Blizzard made Immolate almost useless in PvP to satisfy all the wannabes that thought it would be the fix to Destro PvP. Funny thing is that dispelling Immolate was far from being the biggest problem, especially in 3s.

Not saying it needs to, but no reason we can't have Immo back as a modifier to a dmg spell. Just need to make it instant cast like every other comparable DoT.

Not saying it needs to, but no reason we can't have Immo back as a modifier to a dmg spell. Just need to make it instant cast like every other comparable DoT.

No. With immolate increasing the damage of our other spells it makes it too vital to keep on targets in pvp which means it'll just be dispelled so it's basically like an instant nerf to destruction. Even if immolate was an instant cast, this design was moved away from specifically so a dot doesn't determine if our damage is good or not.

I'm not sure it matters that much. The only thing that can alter how many shards you are getting is killing mobs with Drain Soul. More shards means more procs from 4set, but it also means you will have an overflow anyway. Haunts that you don't channel MG/DS over are worth a lot less as well.

I agree we need a simulation for it, but I personally don't see any way our 4set can be stronger than extra haste/mastery.

It used to be spam dispelled, but as instant and 8sec dispel CD it's fine. Just look at LB/FS. Eles have no issue keeping multiple FlameShocks up these days. And I'd much rather have burst delivery like Ele if they balance CB off of Immo instead of off an insane cast time.