I think AA should wait to rebrand to when they come out of bankruptcy. That would show that they are starting a new chapter in their history. Also with the possible/likely merger with USairways, why re-brand now when you may have to do something very soon any way ?

Quoting The777Man (Reply 3):Also with the possible/likely merger with USairways, why re-brand now when you may have to do something very soon any way ?

Plan A is to emerge from bankruptcy independent, plan B is to merge with US Airways, not vice versa. Either way, if the slim chance (and growing slimmer every day) they did merge with US, they're going to need a new brand anyways. Like hell they keep the US livery and slap AA on the side.

If there is a consolidation of AA and US/HP, it will amount to an acquisition, more than a merger, and AA will be the acquiring entity. The airline will be called, "American Airlines," and branded accordingly, with its headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas.

AA's emergence from bankruptcy is (within the constructs of the gavial movement of court proceedings) imminent. One anticipates the rebranding to occur at that point, or (perhaps) coincident with the rollout of AA's 787.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 5):If there is a consolidation of AA and US/HP, it will amount to an acquisition, more than a merger, and AA will be the acquiring entity. The airline will be called, "American Airlines," and branded accordingly, with its headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas.

AA will not be acquiring anything . US will be doing the Acquiring keeping the AA name and brand . Also the chances of a US/AA merger are not growing slimmer every day like someone else said . This merger is closer to reality than you think . And that my friend is no opinion . It's a fact !
Back to the color scheme . It should be introduced once the merger is announced . Plain and simple .

It's his opinion, of course, but I agree with him that this is the most likely scenario.

Whether US or AA do the acquiring is ultimately unimportant. Back when HP acquired US, HP quickly grabbed US's name. Kept the "cactus" callsign, though.

However the merger works out, assuming it happens, the new carrier will be called "American Airlines." We can assume, given that AA has already started their rebranding process and obviously have a new brand image in mind, that any such merger would not result in an entirely new brand, but would adopt the new AA brand much as the DL/NW merger adopted DL's very recent new brand (at the time).

Of course it's possible that the new carrier will be called "America West Airlines" and return to the old HP 1980's colors (which would be pretty amusing to see on a 77W). There is an enormous list of possibilities, but the most likely scenario is outlined above.

I was checking in for my commute today and noticed that the kiosks have changed. The overall structure has remained mostly the same but the colors are different. I wonder if this is a sample of a wider rebranding for the future?

Quoting sccutler (Reply 5):AA's emergence from bankruptcy is (within the constructs of the gavial movement of court proceedings) imminent. One anticipates the rebranding to occur at that point, or (perhaps) coincident with the rollout of AA's 787.

Quoting etops1 (Reply 7):Back to the color scheme . It should be introduced once the merger is announced . Plain and simple .

US Airways merger or not, US the acquiring carrier or not, the rebranding is going to happen with the rollout of this 77W in January. Either that or maybe AA will go the DL route of multiple - rebrandings

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 1):The old threads became so long and chaotic. Could somebody give us a quick overview of what the current status on this subject is, instead of just continuing the discussion?

What we know:

1. There is an AA-registered 77W, AA's first, painted with a greyish color scheme and a white tail (sort of in the Qantas style) parked at PAE. It is presumed that these colors are not primers due to the outlining of the exit doors (done once all top coats of paint have been applied).

2. A new kiosk design has been rolling out across the system at AA. The new design, conceived by AA's tech contractor Blockdot (the designers of their iPhone app). The new kiosk has done away with the horrendous all-caps block lettering that appears on nearly all of their current branding. You can view the new kiosk flow at http://www.behance.net/gallery/Ameri...an-Airlines-Airport-Kiosk/5935297.

Sort of both. While it's not a confirmed 100% fact, it's fairly accurate according to statements by both Tom Horton and Doug Parker. AA isn't going to simply be putting their name on US's airplanes, it will be a full and total rebranding for AA regardless of the merger with US.

With regards to the merger as a whole, I believe many members of the forum have been much too quick to speculate on the status of the US/AA merger. Regardless of anyone's personal politics regarding the merger, the fact is that a NDA being signed doesn't mean a merger. AA going to bankruptcy protection / restructuring doesn't mean a merger.

Quoting AA94 (Reply 17):
I think AA should wait to rebrand to when they come out of bankruptcy. That would show that they are starting a new chapter in their history. Also with the possible/likely merger with USairways, why re-brand now when you may have to do something very soon any way ?

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 9):I was checking in for my commute today and noticed that the kiosks have changed. The overall structure has remained mostly the same but the colors are different. I wonder if this is a sample of a wider rebranding for the future?

The new self-service machine software went live last Monday. As an agent, I love the new look, and I'm hoping the rest of the brand follows this aesthetic pleasantness.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 6):
Quoting sccutler (Reply 5):
If there is a consolidation of AA and US/HP, it will amount to an acquisition, more than a merger, and AA will be the acquiring entity. The airline will be called, "American Airlines," and branded accordingly, with its headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas.

Is this fact, or your opinion?

Strictly opinion; my policy (it should be all of ours, I'd think) is to cite to reliable authority on any statement I make which is intended to be relied upon as fact, and to expect any statement I make which lacks such citation to be considered merely my opinion.

But, I believe time will prove-up the validity of my opinion. (grin)

Quoting etops1 (Reply 7):AA will not be acquiring anything . US will be doing the Acquiring keeping the AA name and brand .

Common sense and math both argue against this result. But, you may be able to say, "See, I told you so!" one day. I mean, who'd have ever guessed that little Texas International Airlines would grow to be United?

Quoting etops1 (Reply 7):Also the chances of a US/AA merger are not growing slimmer every day like someone else said . This merger is closer to reality than you think . And that my friend is no opinion . It's a fact !

Oh yeah!?! (chuckle)

I think it is a near certainty, as well, for reasons of common sense and competition.

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 4):Plan A is to emerge from bankruptcy independent, plan B is to merge with US Airways, not vice versa. Either way, if the slim chance (and growing slimmer every day) they did merge with US, they're going to need a new brand anyways. Like hell they keep the US livery and slap AA on the side.

Regardless of merger or not, it makes more sense to re-brand AFTER emerging from bankruptcy for the reasons that I stated in my post.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):Has the second one had any paint put on it yet?

Quoting The777Man (Reply 23):Second one has rolled out with a metallic fuselage......

That's because it hasn't been painted yet. What you are seeing is the primer.

Quoting jmw99ttu (Reply 27):I just installed the iPad app update. It's completely different from the old version. It's much sleeker than the old version. Thankfully the sudoku game is still there.

The look of the new iPhone/iPad app matches the new SSM software. I think it's telling that the new app doesn't display any AA logos once it's open, as if the company is just waiting to insert the new logotype once the 77W is rolled out.

I don't think the red will be gone completely from the new color scheme (after all, an airline named "American" should have all three of the colors of the flag on its aircraft), but rather that it'll play a much more reduced role as an accent touch.

Quoting MD13 (Reply 26):The iphone app has also been updated and looks similar to the pictures of the self-service machines... No logos or branding in the app though...

Well the app does feature a new logo on the phone desktop ... a metallic blue field with either off-white or sliver AA + eagle.
(sorry, haven't found a picture of this logo online)... I wonder if this is the new logo or not?

Quoting The777Man (Reply 23):Regardless of merger or not, it makes more sense to re-brand AFTER emerging from bankruptcy for the reasons that I stated in my post.

Most of the rebranding will be afterwards... rolling out a new color scheme with a new fleet type gets them a jump on it, though. As you probably well know, rebranding something as large as a major airline takes years.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 1):
The old threads became so long and chaotic. Could somebody give us a quick overview of what the current status on this subject is, instead of just continuing the discussion?

I agree. When I saw Part 3, it made me realize this post should not say confirmed until something solid is shown for our viewing. This is becoming ridiculous, in my opinion.

It's premature I believe to speculate on a "rebranding" of AA. In order to rebrand something, you really have to have a product to rebrand. AA is not there yet.

As for US/AA; the $64M question is does AA have enough critical mass to go toe to toe with Delta, who is getting stronger and is improving their product and a beefed up UA? Can they do it without US? I am asking the question because at the moment, I can't gather enough information to offer an intelligent, let alone educated opinion.

AA's product needs work desperately, at least domestically. They do not compare to the Delta product (I have flown both recently on similar length segments to Seattle and AA wasn't even close to Delta). Sorry AA guys, it's my opinion and I've got the background in this business to make an unbiased comparison (and also since I don't work for either company).

Quoting FL787 (Reply 28):If the app and kiosk are indicators, it definitely seems like the new brand will either have no red or very little of it. Guess they're letting DL have the red market lol.

I see the kiosks as interim -- really there is no logo or any design. It's sorta like the Window's screen when you first boot up or something. Add my post to the speculation bin - but I think AA will not do away with its blue/white/red stripe altogether. It's too iconic, it'd be like tossing out the campell soup label. The stripe may not be featured on the aircraft cheatline, but I think it will be all over its branding.

Quoting baldwin471 (Reply 19):They should make a WP8 app with that design. Looks very Metro.

AA has a Windows Phone app, and has had one since shortly after Windows Phone 7 came out. IIRC, it currently has a bare-aluminum look a la AA's planes, but as AA changes to paint, the app will have to change as well.

Speaking of which, have AA's non-iPhone apps or AA's DealFinder desktop widget gone to the new look yet? I remember when AA did their last minor brand freshening a few years back that also resulted in the current AA.com, it took DealFinder a while to go to the updated brand. That said, DealFinder also underwent a complete technology conversion to Adobe AIR at the same time.

The new A and B aircraft on order, including the 738s and A319/321s arriving next year, will help dramatically with that. A lot of the reasons why AA has product issues is due to the older fleet, the MD-80s and 757s in particular.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 37):
I see the kiosks as interim -- really there is no logo or any design. It's sorta like the Window's screen when you first boot up or something. Add my post to the speculation bin

This is my best guess too. It looks too empty for it to be a representative of a new livery....maybe a transition livery... it does look awfully similar to US's colors

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 40):This is my best guess too. It looks too empty for it to be a representative of a new livery....maybe a transition livery... it does look awfully similar to US's colors

I'd be inclined to agree, although the whiter area below the tail is a big hint as to what's to come. I've had a go based on what we might see - the grey hints maybe at some softer colours and/or some silver, and the kiosk previews we've seen indicate they may drop the red as a primary accent colour:

Any word on the Windows Phone or BlackBerry apps? I did notice that there is a new icon for both the iOS and Android apps... basically the same ol' AA with the scissor eagle, but all-white on a dark blue background. Previously, it was a classic red and blue AA w/eagle logo on a light blue background. Makes me think that the classic logo will survive the rebranding, albeit in very slightly modified form.

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 41):
I'd be inclined to agree, although the whiter area below the tail is a big hint as to what's to come. I've had a go based on what we might see - the grey hints maybe at some softer colours and/or some silver, and the kiosk previews we've seen indicate they may drop the red as a primary accent colour:

Nice, what about a billboard style name with just "American" rather than "American Airlines" ?

I checked the Windows Phone Marketplace, and the AA app for Windows Phone still has the brushed metal look. (It hasn't been updated since July, which makes me think that a refresh is coming soon.) The AA app for Kindle Fire/Amazon Appstore and the AA Nook Color app have not been updated, either; oddly enough, both the Kindle Fire and Nook Color are Android-based.

It also looks like AA has quietly discontinued their BlackBerry app, which means that it's never getting the new look. With the rapidly declining usage of BlackBerry devices, I'm not surprised.

The one shown on reply 45 would be a great idea. I don't know how good it would look on an MD-80 but it doesn't really matter because those are on the way out and I doubt all the remaining ones will be repainted. It sure would look good on the 772 and the 763.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 51):It seems that Delta managed to redo its entire fleet in short order.

I think the NW merger helped speed things up with that aspect. If you look at UA prior to its merger with CO they still had plenty of planes flying around in the "Darth Vader" scheme. If AA and US merge, there will be a ton of planes that will need a repaint..

Both this and the billboard version of the same are quite nice. And I've disliked nearly all the other renderings I've ever seen for a new AA livery. I might prefer the tail logo in the same blue as "American Airlines"/"American" though. As it is it's perhaps a bit washed out. But overall, very nice work. Fresh, modern, and still identifiably AA.

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 47):Best rendition I have seen, although I presume there will be red somewhere...

Thanks - I agree it would look better with some red in there; I just produced this based on what we've seen so far and one thing that's stood out is a conspicuous lack of red.

Quoting Grude1087 (Reply 49):I would like to point out that the font in the title has changed, and now there is a space between "American" and "Airlines" in the last iPad update.

It looks like a variation of Microsoft's Segoe font that they've used prolifically since Vista but particularly with Windows 8. That looks like the result of the app designers using a Webfont to me and would likely only be used for secondary text rather than the logo, which I would anticipate remaining Helvetica-based.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 56):Both this and the billboard version of the same are quite nice. And I've disliked nearly all the other renderings I've ever seen for a new AA livery. I might prefer the tail logo in the same blue as "American Airlines"/"American" though. As it is it's perhaps a bit washed out. But overall, very nice work. Fresh, modern, and still identifiably AA.

It does look rather washed out - I think that's a good call on a blue tail; I may try to mock that up this evening. One problem with these renders is it's hard to reproduce the dynamic nature of a reflective silver area as I've done for the tail logo. It would likely look better in the flesh.

I think we're going to see a bit more though.
People who have seen the actually livery (we don't know if this is true, just speculation)
say that what we see at Boeing field is nowhere near complete and the "approach" to the design
is retro.

I think that the logo will remain Helvetica (switching from red/blue to all-blue), but the body type in marketing material will be the new font used for the kiosks and apps.

This wouldn't be the first time that AA has deviated from Helvetica for body type. Although AA started using Helvetica for just about everything in 1968, AA also used ITC Garamond heavily from the early 1980s until 2000 (the whole "Something Special in the Air" era), and they used yet another font (forget which one) in the late 1970s.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 59):I don't think any of the MD-80s will be getting the new livery. All the Mad Dogs will be replaced by A319s and 738s in four or so years, eliminating the need to repaint.

Your thinking reminds me of Air France and the Caravelle. Air France bar code livery was introduced in the late 70s (1977 or so) and none of the Caravelles have been repainted because they (Air France) knew those would all be phased out by the early 80s. On the other hand, the 707 also to be phased out by the early 80s did get the bar code livery.

However, I am still convinced that out of 200 MD-80s left, at least one will get the new livery. I'm sure that by 2017, a few MD-80s will still be in the fleet.
I'm sure that at least one of the 15 762s left will get it.

Look at Pan Am, they introduced their billboard scheme in 1985 and they repainted one 747SP as those (11 of them) would be transferred to United a year later.

Look at United, they introduced their battle ship gray livery in 1993 and they repainted one 747SP.

Look at South African Airways, they introduced its latest livery in 1997 and they also repainted one 747SP.

Look at TWA, they introduced their latest corporate livery in 1996 and they still repainted one L-1011 as those would be gone a year later (the last one left the fleet in 1997).

Look at Lufthansa, they introduced their latest livery in the early 1990s just before introducing the then new A340, and they did repaint at least one 727 and one DC-10 as those were to leave the fleet at that time.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 60):However, I am still convinced that out of 200 MD-80s left, at least one will get the new livery. I'm sure that by 2017, a few MD-80s will still be in the fleet.
I'm sure that at least one of the 15 762s left will get it.

Look at Pan Am, they introduced their billboard scheme in 1985 and they repainted one 747SP as those (11 of them) would be transferred to United a year later.

Look at United, they introduced their battle ship gray livery in 1993 and they repainted one 747SP.

Look at South African Airways, they introduced its latest livery in 1997 and they also repainted one 747SP.

Look at TWA, they introduced their latest corporate livery in 1996 and they still repainted one L-1011 as those would be gone a year later (the last one left the fleet in 1997).

Look at Lufthansa, they introduced their latest livery in the early 1990s just before introducing the then new A340, and they did repaint at least one 727 and one DC-10 as those were to leave the fleet at that time.

DL also painted at least one MD-11 in the wavy gravy livery, and I think a few 727s as well, even though they were out the door shortly after they were repainted.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 60):However, I am still convinced that out of 200 MD-80s left, at least one will get the new livery. I'm sure that by 2017, a few MD-80s will still be in the fleet.
I'm sure that at least one of the 15 762s left will get it.

You may be right on the MD-80s, as there will probably be some in the AA fleet until 2019 or so.

But all the 762ERs will be gone and replaced by A321s by 2014, IIRC. No need to repaint a plane that will be phased out within 18 months of the new brAAnd launch, though as you mentioned, stranger things have happened.

how about removing the AA from the back tail and just having a larger eagle that is "supersized" (not sure how you call it...similiar to delta's enlarge widget)?? that might look a little more modern. Do love the hint of red, the eagles on the engines.

Quoting miaskies (Reply 68):how about removing the AA from the back tail and just having a larger eagle that is "supersized" (not sure how you call it...similiar to delta's enlarge widget)?? that might look a little more modern. Do love the hint of red, the eagles on the engines.

Quoting by738 (Reply 70):Very good work. I like the one with the red eagle

Me too, though I think it's a bit TOO negative-spacey. If you could fit more of the eagle on there it'd look better, and maybe flip him around and face him forward. It looks like he's fighting to pull the airplane backwards!

Thanks. I really like the one the billboard titles, in particular. I also like the one with the blue eagle on the tail. Oddly enough, I'm not as fond as any of the red-accented versions, though they are all quite attractive, I just like some better than others (naturally). I guess more colors just makes it slightly less minimalist. But they are all great.

If I may be so bold as to ask, are you a professional designer? I dislike probably 95% of the amateur stuff I see on here as well as a good portion of what airlines actually use in the real world, but this is outstanding work. I'd love to see a version of it actually gracing the skies.

It probably is on a 77W, but I reckon this would probably work better on an A319 which is probably the key aim, much to the chagrin of many on a.net

Quoting N766UA (Reply 73): If you could fit more of the eagle on there it'd look better, and maybe flip him around and face him forward. It looks like he's fighting to pull the airplane backwards!

I struggled to get the angles to work initially but I agree it's probably more natural to face him forward.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 75):I think the AA branding will include the word "Airlines"

Me too. I like the billboard style in general and it's very current (see EK, QR, FR etc) but I don't think it suits AA in the same way.

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 77):I think the rebranding will end up being a tweaked version of the current livery.

It'll be more than a tweak based on what we've seen so far but probably more reminiscent their old / current livery than what I've come up with, I'd imagine.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 78):If I may be so bold as to ask, are you a professional designer? I dislike probably 95% of the amateur stuff I see on here as well as a good portion of what airlines actually use in the real world, but this is outstanding work. I'd love to see a version of it actually gracing the skies.

That's kind of you to say. Unfortunately anything aviation-related is pure hobby for me at the moment; not that I wouldn't mind heading in that direction. My "day job" involves a lot of web design so there's a cross-over but this is all self-taught spare-time stuff.

Quoting whappeh (Reply 72):Somewhere, someone working for American is kicking them selves for either not paying you hundreds of thousands of dollars to create that, OR for realizing its too late to use that.

Loving these! Though I'm sure a few people have mentioned that the new livery will have a 'ribbon' style cheatline fading blue/white/red (or v.v.), so there may be more than just titles on the fuselage.

OK, With all the talk and hints of Retro, Here is a mock-up (based on ZSOFN's work so far) that I would like to see: The Astrojet tail (less circle), but that fills as much as the tail as possible...without negative space.

I don't understand how if AA is bankrupt they could acquire US, not trying to fight your point, I just really don't see how they could do this.
Maybe some body can explain to me how the law/finance would work on this?

Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 80):Loving these! Though I'm sure a few people have mentioned that the new livery will have a 'ribbon' style cheatline fading blue/white/red (or v.v.), so there may be more than just titles on the fuselage.

Here's my take on those rumours:

I'm not sure firstly which of these I prefer, or - more to the point - whether I like these at all. It looks too busy to me, but then it's a little less washed out. I'm not convinced...

Quoting Colombia (Reply 84):I don't understand how if AA is bankrupt they could acquire US, not trying to fight your point, I just really don't see how they could do this.
Maybe some body can explain to me how the law/finance would work on this?

In the US when you are in chapter 11 bankruptcy, you are technically not bankrupt, just reorganizing. AA has a lot of cash on hand and could potentially acquire US, although most likely with a number of different methods and financial instruments.

Does anyone think that the entire first 777-300 is just a decoy and that when it is actually rolled out in full AA colors it will be something completely different? From what I am seeing this will be very bland and unappealing. No offense to anyone who came up with their idea of what the livery will look like. I am expecting something really fresh and exciting once this airplane is actually rolled out.

While your designs are good, I think they would be better if the white on the fuselage was actually somehow integrated into the design (i.e. your designs in post 67/69). With these (especially the first 2) it really makes no sense that the white from the tail would extend down onto the fuselage versus keeping it grey.

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 89):
I like the one in the middle a lot, why are you so good at this? And why hasn't AA gotten in contact with you?

Well they've not had much time yet to be fair! I'm sure we'll see something from a brand agency that will be worth the wait.

Quoting polot (Reply 91):
While your designs are good, I think they would be better if the white on the fuselage was actually somehow integrated into the design (i.e. your designs in post 67/69). With these (especially the first 2) it really makes no sense that the white from the tail would extend down onto the fuselage versus keeping it grey.

I completely agree - and to be honest I've not been able to come up with something yet that integrates that white area and still looks good and flows well. It's obviously going to be a key part of the design so I'm definitely missing something...

OK, With all the talk and hints of Retro, Here is a mock-up (based on ZSOFN's work so far) that I would like to see: The Astrojet tail (less circle), but that fills as much as the tail as possible...without negative space.

While we are at it, how about the lightning bolt, done in the current blue/white/red(rather than orange), fading from front to back...

Nice thinking - I'd be surprised if they go with something that retro. I'll have a play with those ideas though!

I admire and respect your designs... you've had some good ideas... I personally am not a band wagon guy though and don't think you or anyone can improve upon the silver bird... it's a personal bias and love of AA, their heritage, and their brand image that is so iconic.... not a critique of you by any means... that said.. If I may comment on your designs... the Eagle on the engines should go... engines are usually void of design do to their constant mx handling and parts interchanging... cowlings etc... and how dirty they get thanks to reverse thrust... it'll be a clean solid... no design details...... as to the fuselage... I personally like your ideas with the ribbons... the fade to white integration to the tail is well balanced... I still think their is something missing with the tail... and I can't place it... the all blue AA current logo doesn't seem right with such white abundance.. the super imposed eagle also looks incorrect..... I would think, it being AA, that their will be slightly more color than this.... historically before silver their planes were solid painted... navy blue.... I admit it means nothing going forward... I just don't see AA being so void of color.

I like these overall...if the grey at the tail (the "bands") were red that would sharpen it up in my mind. I love the silver eagles on the engines. I really like some of the tails that had the large eagle on the tail...I can't find them now...I think they were in blue/grey.

[Edited 2012-11-22 17:38:58]
Ok, my bad, I was on my phone and didn't see these: Post 67/69/85...there is the red I was thinking about. I like the ones with the red or blue large eagle, but it looks awkward "facing" aft. I think the bird should be landing "forward."

I would love to see the red stripe version of 67 combined with a large blue eagle like the middle one of 85. I don't have a strong opinion either way on the titles...perhaps above window is best (no billboard).

I looks like they already decided the tail will be white. Based on all the proposed designs in the above replies, I think it is safe to say the tail will be white. But I'm not 100% positive about that. And the engine nacelles will be painted in gray like they are now on the current (soon to be old) scheme.

Quoting runway23 (Reply 86):
In the US when you are in chapter 11 bankruptcy, you are technically not bankrupt, just reorganizing. AA has a lot of cash on hand and could potentially acquire US, although most likely with a number of different methods and financial instruments.

Quoting runway23 (Reply 86): In the US when you are in chapter 11 bankruptcy, you are technically not bankrupt, just reorganizing. AA has a lot of cash on hand and could potentially acquire US, although most likely with a number of different methods and financial instruments.

Waaait wasn't US going to acquire AA?
Either way, If a merger was indeed finalized behind those closed doors, I wonder why AA is doing these transformations....

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 99):Anyone at US see any a/c go into tech for odd paint?

2 319s (761 and 704) got the current livery repainted
US Express side:ZW repainted the blue CRJs to current liveryEN is finishing the Dash-8s all but 4 that arent being retired will be repainted by the spring. the other 4 will be done in the fall.
Republic is currently repainting E170s into the current livery

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 94):I admire and respect your designs... you've had some good ideas... I personally am not a band wagon guy though and don't think you or anyone can improve upon the silver bird... it's a personal bias and love of AA, their heritage, and their brand image that is so iconic

I think that once the excitement over a rebrand (I find rebrands fascinating) the current livery will be missed greatly. If AA hadn't ordered aircraft with large parts built with CFRP they'd be keeping the same livery for another 20 years at least, and I wouldn't blame them.

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 94):If I may comment on your designs... the Eagle on the engines should go... engines are usually void of design do to their constant mx handling and parts interchanging

I'm sure they'll end up blank - but it's nice in the meantime to pretend they won't be!

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 94): I still think their is something missing with the tail... and I can't place it

Yup, ditto. I'm going to have a think, particularly as it has this rather conspicuous white area extending below the tail.

Quoting B727FA (Reply 95):I like these overall...if the grey at the tail (the "bands") were red that would sharpen it up in my mind.

Seriously, even if it fell on deaf ears you should get in touch with the AA press department somehow. Some of your designs would give AA the best looking aircraft in the skies and I don't think that can be ignored.

Well I am a little late to come to this discussion but I have some observances you can shoot down. looking at the pictures that have been shown here, maybe there won't be such an earth shattering change just a grey/white body replacing the polished look and the re-jigging of the logo. Keeping the red, white and blue stripes as they are today. This may have been mentioned before, but darned if I am going to go through all the posts to see if what I see is anybody else has the same opinion.

I would much rather either see something different than the posts we are seeing here, or just turn the polished aluminum white and be done with it. I have never been a fan of gray as a dominate livery element. IE, Northwest, United battleship, Air Canada, Virgin. Just looks dull to me. I'm not trying to insult the efforts of those who have posted these pictures. They look nice on a one off basis, but boring to see the whole fleet that way. Just my opinion of course.

Everyone here is posting pictures of the new AA colorscheme, well what about American Eagle? I assume if AA is going to re-branding their mainline planes, then they are probably going to be doing the same with American Eagle too right?

Why is everyone obsessed with red? Every time someone proposes a scheme with grey and blue only, right away I read: " Oh and what about the red? We need some red to mix with the blue...a touch of red would be nice..."
A new American Airlines without any red wouldn't hurt. Right?

Among the three schemes posted in reply 107, I like the bottom one best. That's exactly what I was thinking of lately: the current AA logo in blue, on a background with a slight shade of the eagle symbol as shown above in the reply in question.
I like that one because the eagle shape is discreet with the rest of the fuselage.

1st choice: the bottom one
2nd choice: the top one
3rd choice: the middle one

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 116):then they are probably going to be doing the same with American Eagle too right?

If Eagle is a wholly owned subsidiary of AMR, yes. Because a while ago, there were rumors about AMR selling the Eagle assets.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 99):Either way, If a merger was indeed finalized behind those closed doors, I wonder why AA is doing these transformations....

I think you may be overestimating the current status of an AA/US acquisition. Granted, I'm a cynic, but I don't think anything has been finalized or is close to being finalized. However, I don't want to turn this into another AA/US merger battle thread.

Regardless of the merger status, AA is going to rebrand. Since a merged carrier would bear the AA name and branding, it's not surprising to me that AA is beginning the rebranding transition. It'll stick either way.

If I had a voice in the re-branding of AA it would have to be a very close to the Middle a/c design in #85, but with the red and blue stripe on the bottom a/c. I would take the eagle off the engine an put on a thin Red White & blue stripe around the intake of the engine. also make the "American" Bold Tile with out airlines. That's my two cents from someone that is an AA fan and had to see a new style of livery.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 117):Why is everyone obsessed with red? Every time someone proposes a scheme with grey and blue only, right away I read: " Oh and what about the red? We need some red to mix with the blue...a touch of red would be nice..."
A new American Airlines without any red wouldn't hurt. Right?

I wouldn't consider myself "obsessed" with the color red, but a livery composed only of grey/silver, blue, and white is a rather drab livery. Some red here and there makes the livery stand out, particularly if the red is used somewhat sparingly.

Quoting 797 (Reply 105):Well, is this the second baby coming out of the wound?

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 92):I completely agree - and to be honest I've not been able to come up with something yet that integrates that white area and still looks good and flows well. It's obviously going to be a key part of the design so I'm definitely missing something...

Here's my suggestion: in your concept from reply 85, make the ribbons straighten out as they reach the tail, forming the same red/white/blue line and cutting off at an angle as in the current livery, inside the white area of the tail. While this breaks the whole flapping ribbon imagery, it might resolve the rear end nicely.

... with the pic in reply #105. Unless the rudder on N718AN is picking up some weird reflection from the asphalt runway, it is light blue whereas N717AN's rudder is white/very light grey. Perhaps one or the other is to be in a non-standard livery?

Quoting LostSound (Reply 113):When freshly painted it is quite mint green, but once faded it does start to look dull

Regardless of fading or not... When an AC plane is outside of Canada, you can instantly recognize it, even without looking at the tail. The colour stands out. Lets hope the same will hold true with the new AA colours...

Quoting TSS (Reply 124):Unless the rudder on N718AN is picking up some weird reflection from the asphalt runway, it is light blue whereas N717AN's rudder is white/very light grey.

Looking on my monitor, the rudder appears to hava a couple of distinct shades of grey, with the very top a small band of white. With the rest of the aircraft still without paint, I imagine we are seeing true primer on the tail (although I thought that tails had to be painted for proper checks and balances before first flight...) am I wrong?

... with the pic in reply #105. Unless the rudder on N718AN is picking up some weird reflection from the asphalt runway, it is light blue whereas N717AN's rudder is white/very light grey. Perhaps one or the other is to be in a non-standard livery?

Quoting B727FA (Reply 127):The red "bands" at the base of the tail (forward edge) and the band aft of the tail. Please see 65 (the grey version) and 67 with the red that I was envisioning. Hope that helps!

Spent a couple of hours over the weekend trying to come up with something that fits the bill and doesn't look a bit awkward but to no avail. I think I've thrown my hat in the ring now and we'll have to wait and see what AA come up with...

The more I hear, grey fuselage, tail work extending down fuselage, flashes of red, the more I think someone in AA picked up a magazine containing an old picture of a Virgin Australia B777 and thought "We could do something like that."

Quoting 797 (Reply 134):I think a new livery has never caught so much attention as AA has managed to do with their 777!

The problem will be when its revealed to be an absolutely bland disgusting pile of nothing. Not because it's American Airlines but when you look around at all the modern branding of airlines from Finnair to JAL you see whats in store. I really wish that American bucks the trend but I dont hold out much hope lol.

I did get some new info from one of the members of management that had seen the new scheme.

So here goes.

The blue that is being used in the updated kiosk interface...IS the new blue that will be used in the livery.

AND....

There is no red in the scheme (GASP - let the airliners.net flamings commence! The humanity!)

Her comment was that it was very pretty, but she was personally attached to the classic livery. And the company is pretty much waiting for the pilot agreement to be finalized before it is all revealed.

Quoting YYZBound (Reply 139):There is no red in the scheme (GASP - let the airliners.net flamings commence! The humanity!)

I'll start

I'm just so sick of blue and white. First we have blue/grey/white interiors on almost every airline, now we're going to have blue/grey/white liveries even when red as an accent color is not only warranted, but a perfect fit for what the airline stands for.

It could be *mostly* blue for all I care, but having a red accent somewhere would really set it off and add visual interest. I can't see blue/grey/white being at all interesting anymore, whatever the scheme itself actually looks like. It's going to be very drab.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 142):I'm just so sick of blue and white. First we have blue/grey/white interiors on almost every airline, now we're going to have blue/grey/white liveries even when red as an accent color is not only warranted, but a perfect fit for what the airline stands for.

It could be *mostly* blue for all I care, but having a red accent somewhere would really set it off and add visual interest. I can't see blue/grey/white being at all interesting anymore, whatever the scheme itself actually looks like. It's going to be very drab.

I couldn't possibly have put it better myself. We are in full agreement.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 142):I'm just so sick of blue and white. First we have blue/grey/white interiors on almost every airline, now we're going to have blue/grey/white liveries even when red as an accent color is not only warranted, but a perfect fit for what the airline stands for.

Quoting babybus (Reply 144):The thing I don't believe is that there isn't one AA employee on here. It's such a big airline and this site has so many posters that you'd expect one of them to have inside info. Never mind.

I think they have and as I said earlier they are laughing their butt's off when reading this thread. Since they are under NDA contract they cant even give a hint to us...

Quoting babybus (Reply 144):The thing I don't believe is that there isn't one AA employee on here. It's such a big airline and this site has so many posters that you'd expect one of them to have inside info. Never mind.

I used to work for a major video game company that has had a string of #1 games on various systems... we were constantly monitoring public forums to see what people were saying about our stuff, partly for "market research" but actually mostly for our own amusement. It was valuable info to have (I worked in marketing) but mostly we just liked to see the crazy stuff people would predict. Sometimes it would make us worried about disappointing them, but other times they seriously *underestimated* what we had planned.

Anyway, we obviously never said anything ourselves (though honestly - if you see somebody somewhere on a public forum that sounds like a paid shill, I can tell you from experience that the chances are good that they actually are, especially around the time of major product launches or announcements). It would have been obvious grounds for termination to spill company secrets - it actually did happen once when I worked there and that was the result. These types of branding rollouts are carefully controlled.

I really like these designs.
It would be cool if the plane with the red eagle had AMERICAN in red.
I think the planes would look sharp parked in a line if some had the red version and some had the blue version.

Quoting babybus (Reply 144):The thing I don't believe is that there isn't one AA employee on here. It's such a big airline and this site has so many posters that you'd expect one of them to have inside info. Never mind.

We are here.....17 years for me. I've already given my input into this discussion but it has been discounted by those who know more. I used to be the one at BFI who received the planes from Boeing and did all of the customer inspections and both the B flights and C flights and I talk to the guy that took my place at least weekly, but again the experts here know more.

The NDA doesn't flow down to those closer to the operation because we are not privy to the type of information the NDA covers.

Could we please delete this thread or at least rename it? The title is totally confusing. For the 3rd time already, the thread title says "confirmed, painted". Well nothing is really confirmed, and absolutely nothing is painted. The thread title promises photos of the new livery, then you scroll through hundreds of replies only to find a handful of photoshop want-to-be artists' dreams from last night.

The Airliners.net CivAv forum clearly states "factual events happening in the airline and aviation industries", and this definitely isn't any of this.

Quoting whappeh (Reply 72):Somewhere, someone working for American is kicking them selves for either not paying you hundreds of thousands of dollars to create that, OR for realizing its too late to use that.

I hate to tell you but as excellent as they may be, American Airlines (or AMR) is the worldwide exclusive owner of all rights to designs and concepts and branding for the American Airlines name and brands. They could use the designs presented here and not have to pay anything to the person here, who they did not authorize/gives right to, for the design presented.

Basically they have to give you permission prior in order to be forced to pay you (unless it was something that became a public item that garnered attention and a "brand recognition" on its own perhaps, but then they would sue the person to have them cease and desist and try to claim rights to the design).

BTW this is different and entirely separate from photographers and photographs that are taken in free and open public settings and become rights-worthy items in and of themselves.

Now with that said, I am not trying to dissuade anyone from having fun and making designs. I very much enjoy seeing what the people here on this site create.

Quoting N737AA (Reply 156): I've already given my input into this discussion but it has been discounted by those who know more. I used to be the one at BFI who received the planes from Boeing and did all of the customer inspections and both the B flights and C flights and I talk to the guy that took my place at least weekly, but again the experts here know more.

On the same token, low level front line employees who claim to be all knowing insiders when in reality they don't know jack are a dime dozen here as well. Pilots, mechanics, flight attendents, ticket agents, ramp rats, etc. are the last to know anything about anything. It's the same with any business, front line employees, i.e. the ones NOT making the decisions, are poor sources of information.

I've yet to see any information worth a damn come out of any of these three threads from *anyone*.

I agree with BlueSky1976. This airborne photo gives the impression that little remains to be added other than titles and logos. Even the gray appears more of a bluish color as shown in the kiosk photos.

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 169):That's a misconception. They can only trademark the designs / logos they already have. They can't claim rights over something they haven't created.

I very much doubt that anyone else could successfully trademark or copyright a design with a brand and logo that they have no rights too. Also if you get right down to it, if it ever was an issue I bet AA had thousands of designs already done that they can show derivation from. Also think of out Internet name/brand squatters. Unless you have a valid reason of your own for creating and using a name or brand it will be returned to the rightful brand owner and you can not assert any rights to it. Once you stick "AA" (or any brand really) on it, it is not yours.

Quote:How much of someone else's work can I use without getting permission?
Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports. There are no legal rules permitting the use of a specific number of words, a certain number of musical notes, or percentage of a work. Whether a particular use qualifies as fair use depends on all the circumstances. See FL 102, Fair Use, and Circular 21, Reproductions of Copyrighted Works by Educators and Librarians.

How much do I have to change in order to claim copyright in someone else's work?
Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. Accordingly, you cannot claim copyright to another's work, no matter how much you change it, unless you have the owner's consent. See Circular 14, Copyright Registration for Derivative Works.

How is a copyright different from a patent or a trademark?
Copyright protects original works of authorship, while a patent protects inventions or discoveries. Ideas and discoveries are not protected by the copyright law, although the way in which they are expressed may be. A trademark protects words, phrases, symbols, or designs identifying the source of the goods or services of one party and distinguishing them from those of others.

Why should I register my work if copyright protection is automatic?
Registration is recommended for a number of reasons. Many choose to register their works because they wish to have the facts of their copyright on the public record and have a certificate of registration. Registered works may be eligible for statutory damages and attorney's fees in successful litigation. Finally, if registration occurs within 5 years of publication, it is considered prima facie evidence in a court of law. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration” and Circular 38b, Highlights of Copyright Amendments Contained in the Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA), on non-U.S. works.

So I am sorry but only AA has rights to their brand and to produce new versions of it, and they can do what they wish with it. Otherwise each company would produce thousands of version of other companies brand as a competitive measure to prevent the other brand(s) from having any rights to a new design.

It is possible if you have an independent use for a design and did not use the registered trademark holders brand that you could assert rights (say you create an airline in Second Life - yes I know no one needs one there - and its design becomes known on its own), but otherwise, no.

But I love seeing the designs the resident artists here produce, and I hope they keep making and showing them.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 161):Having in mind the branding recently revealed on AA self-service kiosk, the longer I look at this picture ^^^, the more I think this IS the new livery, minus name and logo...

Oh boy, hope you are wrong, it's looking pretty nasty so far. Hope there is some color to separate the white and gray, it still looks kind of awkwardly set up though.

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 167):I feel like paint technology is far enough along to be able to nearly mimic the mirror effect of the polished body. Guess not.

No, it is. The Mercedes F1 team used a paint on its cars that looked much like polished metal several years ago. Although, I'd venture to guess it's way too expensive to use on the large scale basis needed for an aircraft.

Quoting tugger (Reply 172):So I am sorry but only AA has rights to their brand and to produce new versions of it, and they can do what they wish with it.

Yes, but I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here. AA of course own rights to their name, logo, current livery and any new versions they have designed whether or not they're being used.

Quoting tugger (Reply 172):I very much doubt that anyone else could successfully trademark or copyright a design with a brand and logo that they have no rights too.

Aside from the eagle logo, I've not included anything of theirs that they own or can claim copyright over (Helvetica is not a font they own), so there's nothing for AA to challenge; they don't own exclusive copyright of the colours blue, red or grey, for example. Using your logic, if AA were to ask a brand agency to develop a new livery / logo for them, they could immediately then sue the agency for copyright infringement because they've come up with something that has the word "american" on it.

Granted - I couldn't go and start my own airline with the name "American Airlines" but with a change of text I could go ahead and create one with a version of a livery I have designed above (if I had the means!) and there'd be nothing for AA to challenge.

Anyway it's a moot point as AA haven't approached me over any of it (why would they) - and more to the point, we don't yet know what this new livery's going to look like.

Twelve million posts in and we're not much further forward than the first one? When is N717AN likely to be delievered? As things stand, it may be end up neing delivered "as is" until the new livery is unveiled when negociations are concluded.BA flew about 20 around in an interim livery before the current colours were launched.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 180):The fact that the new kiosks have no red tells me the person who said the new livery doesn't have red is correct. (sadly)

Don't fret.. Red will most certainly be there and associated with American Airlines... call it a hunch... I'm basing it on their own publicly released photos of the new interiors for the Airbus and Boeing equipment... if you look closely at the new fabric pattern.. red is being incorporated into them.

The fact they've focussed on the tail makes me think that their new brand will be logo based. I am guessing you will see a dramatic change to the AA and eagle. The typeface i doubt will change, but expect only a dramatic change on the tail, I think you may see cheat lines will remain (Even if altered) and 'American' will still feature prominently on the fuselage.

Sensible in my opinion, a dramatic change will alienate current customers, whilst a revamp will still attract new and old customers who can see a visible change to their look and corporate message.

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 182):New video up that doesn't give much away livery-wise but interesting nonetheless with their mention of the 77W.

Yeah, A new logo seems imminent - that seem clear from the covered tail at the end. I agree with the poster that thinks the Eagle and/or the AA will look different. All that "New American" talk makes it sound to me as though they intend to go it alone without a meger with US. Just my

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 191):I'll be out at Founders Plaza or the golf course depending on winds, hoping to catch this!

Why would AA fly their brand new livery into DFW in the middle of the afternoon? If they haven't officially unveiled it, it must not be painted, otherwise they'd fly it under the cover of darkness. The first new livery in 4+ decades is kind of a big deal.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 192):Why would AA fly their brand new livery into DFW in the middle of the afternoon? If they haven't officially unveiled it, it must not be painted, otherwise they'd fly it under the cover of darkness. The first new livery in 4+ decades is kind of a big deal.

Yeah, after poking around a bit longer (see my edited post above), it seems highly doubtful its painted, as it was in all grey just three days ago.

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 193):Yeah, after poking around a bit longer (see my edited post above), it seems highly doubtful its painted, as it was in all grey just three days ago.

That's what I'm thinking. Not to pick on you, it just seems weird that people seem to think that AA would just fly it in at 3PM without making a HUGE deal out of it. This is their post-bankruptcy brand, after all. It's supposed to be a new start.

IIRC flight will be AA9703... Its in DECS under extra flying summary for Tuesday. Rumor is it will NOT be delivered in the new livery. A temporary generic livery for now until AA emerges from CH11, then new livery will be unveiled at that time....

Quoting N766UA (Reply 195):Not to pick on you, it just seems weird that people seem to think that AA would just fly it in at 3PM without making a HUGE deal out of it. This is their post-bankruptcy brand, after all. It's supposed to be a new start.

No, very good point. I guess we are all excited to see the new livery.

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 182):Note the use of the phrase "American" predominantly rather than "American Airlines"...

I scanned the video in detail and noticed also that "Airlines" is nowhere mentioned or identified even in the logos appearing in the background during the various schemes. I'm not sure how much to make of this, however, because AA doesn't use "Airlines" on the livery of its jets. Take a gander through the A-net photo albums. It surprised me that American is used alone on much of AA's branding.

The tarp over the tail in the last scene appears to extend onto the fuselage also, so I'm not confident that the new logo is limited to the tail.

Heres a little excerpt from an interview that Horton had with Dallas Morning News.

Heres his response when asked about the rebrand.

Quote:DMN: When will you reveal your new branding? Will it be when the Boeing 777-300ER enters service? [Originally set for Dec. 13, the 777-300ER's entry into service is now postponed into late January.]

Horton: “Well, it wouldn’t be very sporting if I gave you the answer to that.

DMN: I’m just asking about the timing. I wasn’t asking you what it looks like. I was going to ask you that next.

Horton: “That wouldn’t be sporting either.

“It’ll be soon. We’ve been working on this for quite some time, in fact well before we entered restructuring. We’ve been thinking about the modernization of the brand. We’ve been thinking about all the new airplanes and the unique opportunity that it affords the company.

“And of course the new airplanes, many of them are composite or heavily composite, which means they don’t lend themselves to being bare metal.

“It’s something we’ve been working on as part of the overall refresh of the brand. Suffice it to say, we’re pretty excited about what we’ve got. I think the work has been fantastic. I think it coincides with a lot of great substance for our customers in terms of new products and services. So I think it’s going to be great. But stay tuned. ‘Soon’ is the word I would use.”

DMN: It doesn’t make sense to introduce a new airplane and then repaint it two weeks later, so I’ll make my own assumptions on that. But ‘soon’ and ‘stay tuned,’ I’m familiar with those phrases.

He really doesnt announce anything new, but he does insist that it is "soon".

It looks like it's the tail of a 737 (800 of course, since it's the only 737 American flies) that's hidden behind the black bag, if you observe closely. I can tell because the bottom of the tail looks like it has an angle before meeting the top of the fuselage, a feature that all 737s (from the 300 to the 900 variant) have. I'm not %100 positive, but that's what I think it is.

IMHO I really dont think we will see the new colors today. Just 4 days ago airplane was seen as we have already seen (all grey).. I dont think 4 days is enough time. Remember EIS is still 6 weeks away AA has lots to do in order to get this airplane ready, training and further updating. So AA could be taking delivery now, and return in a few weeks for final painting just my opinion. I have been told (just rumor) new colors wont be till AA emerges from CH11, and we will see generic colors for the time being.

Also today AA will take delivery of another 737 3JV about the same time. Its been a long time since AA has taken two brand new birds on the same day. Both should arrive DWH this afternoon.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 204):I have been told (just rumor) new colors wont be till AA emerges from CH11, and we will see generic colors for the time being.

Considering AA is asking for an extension into March 2013 now and the 77W should be flying scheduled service months before then I highly doubt they'll be waiting post BK. Seems like an announcement/roll out shortly after the new year seems more appropriate at this point.

This suspense is driving me nuts... Meanwhile the AA execs are laughing at us A.Netters going nuts...

I really dont think we will see anything today, just IMHO. The 737 will for sure be in old colours, and the 777 will likely be a temporary generic livery. Remember the 777 was just seen on the 6th in all grey. Is 3-4 days enough to completely repaint in a new livery???

AA just made a press release concerning the delivery of the 77W today. It's been delivered in the blank gray fuselage and white tail. The press release says the the 77W will feature "a freshly painted livery," but that's it. Very anti-climactic, I think.

On closer look of the F-class seats. I know they may be those new light weight cushions. However they give the cabin a bit of a cheap look to it. The seats appear too firm to me. Too bad more had not gone into the detail.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but has anyone else considered that beneath that black tarped tail is. . . the current AA livery?

It does very much look like a 737 tail. So how hard would it really be to pull a 737 into a maintenance hanger overnight, tarp the tail section, shoot the quick 3-second video shot, then untarp it and shoot it back into the rotation?

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 221):On closer look of the F-class seats. I know they may be those new light weight cushions. However they give the cabin a bit of a cheap look to it. The seats appear too firm to me. Too bad more had not gone into the detail.

Or am I being picky?

They look fine to me. Then again, premium economy would be fancy to me. :P

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 221):On closer look of the F-class seats. I know they may be those new light weight cushions. However they give the cabin a bit of a cheap look to it. The seats appear too firm to me. Too bad more had not gone into the detail.

Or am I being picky?

Definitely not cheap. This is what I notice...

The bottom portion of the seat is wider than the current seat as evidenced by the bottom flap of the seat. This is made clearer by the width of the ottoman under the new location for the monitor.

The shell of the seat is also taller. That is indicated by the relation of the seat to to the monitor. Hence, these seats will have a greater sense of privacy.

As to the details, the aluminum trim on the seats is quite elegant and sleek. AA may have shelved the polished metal exterior, but the trim is a nice gesture to the legacy of that and even to the aesthetic (streamline moderne) from which the idea might have come in the first place. (I think the J-class seats will have similar trim, though in a matte finish.)

The finish on the back bulkhead is also something new. Unlike the bold graphics of the past, it is a veneer suggesting a paneled wall or striated wallpaper. Can't wait to see how they achieved the almost translucent look. In fact, all the patterns and colors in the cabin complement each other quite nicely, giving the cabin as a whole a very premium, somewhat retro, yet contemporary look.

AA now has the best international first class of any US airline and I would argue it is even on par with BA's.

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 221):On closer look of the F-class seats. I know they may be those new light weight cushions. However they give the cabin a bit of a cheap look to it. The seats appear too firm to me. Too bad more had not gone into the detail.

Or am I being picky?

The current AA F seat on the 77E is quite comfortable - having taken a few long haul flights in them myself. I can't imagine that this slightly updated version is worse then the current product ...

Was that a typo? The question was whether the 737-800 was painted the same as the 777-300ER. so are you saying that the 777-300ER was grey with white tail, or that the 737-800 was also grey with white tail.

Quoting tguman (Reply 237):Was that a typo? The question was whether the 737-800 was painted the same as the 777-300ER. so are you saying that the 777-300ER was grey with white tail, or that the 737-800 was also grey with white tail.

What I wanted to know is if the brand new 737-800 will be wearing the same colors as on the 777-300ER.

According to this article from USA Today, we should know what the new livery looks like before January 31st.

"The airline said Tuesday that the Boeing 777-300ER will go into service Jan. 31 between Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport and Sao Paulo, Brazil. Before then, it will get a paint job. American Airlines spokesman Mike Trevino declined to hint at the new livery, which might not seem like a big deal to most travelers but is the stuff of eager speculation among aviation geeks.".

I've been reading with amusement all the speculation about the new livery, and the supposed grey fuselage with the white QF-like tail. I guess I can add my speculation to this, but I suspect the white tail is merely a primer-like coat, and that the tail will be fully painted with a background color (I'm guessing mainly blue with a hint of red). I don't believe the tail will remain primarily a white background.

Will AA fly the aircraft around for a week or two between hubs for crew familiarization/PR, or is this considered to be identical to the 77E with the exception of additional crew and thus require no special treatment?

Quoting mcmax (Reply 247):I've been reading with amusement all the speculation about the new livery, and the supposed grey fuselage with the white QF-like tail. I guess I can add my speculation to this, but I suspect the white tail is merely a primer-like coat, and that the tail will be fully painted with a background color (I'm guessing mainly blue with a hint of red). I don't believe the tail will remain primarily a white background.

With all the talk of "Retro," I'm wondering if they're going to go back to the older eagle symbol. Like this:

Some variant of this could be the tail logo on a white background. Then have "AMERICAN AIRLINES" either in billboard or regular titles (regular, I really hope) on the fuselage.