I don't think the level has much of anything to do with it. My final talent points at 85, 80, and 70 were stuff like 2/2 Doom and Gloom, Improved Corruption and Ruin. None felt particularly awesome or offered anything tangiable.

If they were, why are Arcane, Frost (without procs), Shadow, and Boomkin being left out?

All have ways/tools to help them with movement. Or buffed damage to compensate.
Locks don't. Sure they have gateway/portal but that's assuming the fire/crap on the floor is predictable. Which it isn't.

Originally Posted by parish

I think its cool, it makes warlock completely Op, impossible to catch and kill.

If you can't catch a lock with a 30% movement speed penalty, then I pity you.

Originally Posted by Jessicka

Mobility in this game is meant to be an issue for casters, they're not going to hand out more. Haunt, Life Tap and DoTs while moving, as well as Fel Flame should be plenty adequate.

No, it's meant to be a problem for other casters (see above). Fel flame is less than adequate for a destro lock.

So they never considered that the reason that KJC is a popular choice has anything to do with the other two talents (especially AV) are pretty much crap. Why is NERF always the go to option in situations like this?

Honestly I don't see why everything thinks KJC is OP. There was a thread about 2 weeks ago explaining it. For Destro and Demo KJC isn't really needed anyways, but for Affliction it really is. Just the fact of not keeping 65% MG uptime on single target will destroy Aff imo at least. Demo has meta and free movement and Destro has plenty of instant casts given that Fel Flame is almost as good as Incinerate. Not to mention the 30% slow is what keeps it balanced and separates the good raiders from the rest.

What does Blizzard expect Affliction locks to do though... Fel Flame=massive mana and not great dps.

Overall though I really dough they will change KJC. After all, Blizzard has came out and said that the model of not being able to move and dps at the same time feels old.

Obviously this is aimed at Affliction because it will affect affliction the most. Just let me know what you guys think. Will it really change?

Really hate how much they've screwed Affliction, first it was this mastery pish, then taking away shadow bolts and replacing it with a drain filler and now this crap :/ Like this is gonna make the other talents any more appealing, now instead of 2 crap lvl90 talents, we're gonna have 3 crap lvl90 talents...

Originally Posted by sith

Uh.. Nobody takes Burning Rush.

Personally I use Burning Rush all the time unless it's a fight where having the ability to dispel myself can save a healer time of having to deal with me, most times in my guilds raids we only got maybe only a few people who can't dispel themselves i.e on fights like heroic jin'rokh etc. Rest of the time I use Burning Rush just for easier and faster mobility.

Originally Posted by Tryana

I think we should all run without a level 90 talent for a week orso.

Imagine the confusion at blizzard.

Completely agree with this, was about to suggest the same in the thread on the official forums, all warlocks basically just stop taking any lvl90 talents and force blizzard to actually take a look and fix it because right now the other 2 suck as it is and with this nerf it's gonna be pointless even bothering to take KJC any more as well...

I believe if KJC were nerfed to be inferior to Fel Flame for mobility, that players wouldn't keep it because it was "fun". I don't see many who have kept Sacrifice because it was, as so many reported "fun".

There's no point in trying to make some sort of mystical logical conclusion to why this is going to be nerfed since its pretty obvious. To start things off it clearly isn't game breaking. Warlocks are good. They aren't the best in PvP and are only one of the best in PvE. They aren't the best at everything. They are the best at some things. There's nothing wrong with that. The bottom line is that Blizzard just doesn't like it. Period. It can work. In fact it does work. That leaves only one reason to remove it. They don't like it. True movement planning etc can attribute to more skill than another player. I'd know since I play every casting dps spec in the game regularly. So why not nerf warlock spells when you take KJC slightly and buff AV up to be higher than KJC and similar to current dps if played well if not slightly lower if they feel like its OP? Seems like that would reward skilled gameplay and also leave fun intact while simultaneously increasing talent diversity. Why wouldn't you do that? Who knows. Guess they'd rather just take balance, fun and dps out with the talent for the sake of adding a meaningless choice to your level 90 talent slot.

Spriests still have decent dots that tick away merrily no matter how much the spriest has to move. In an emergency they can always spec into instant mind spikes and mind blasts to reduce the movement penalty even further. The only reason spriests feel very immobile atm is insanity wastage which is an optional talent.

Why dont they just make it as they did for Elemental shamans then, Elemental got their filler spell on the move as baseline, do the same for affliction and it shouldn't be that bad imo. We would still have to stop to cast Haunt, just like elemental shamans has to do with Elemental Blast.

Also, if this change stays, for Affliction it will more often then not be a dps increase to NOT DO ANYTHING over casting fel flame wile moving (if your on high mana). Is that where blizzard wants us to be?

Ele shams shouldn't pick an Elemental Blast as last tier talant but instead they are should pick Primal Elementalist on high movement fights.

So they never considered that the reason that KJC is a popular choice has anything to do with the other two talents (especially AV) are pretty much crap. Why is NERF always the go to option in situations like this?

I fail to see how either MF or AV are any more attractive over KJC for affliction even with the changes :/

Can we have a preposterous statement of the year tournament on these boards? I nominate this one.

Show me the data that shows that KjC causes Warlocks to be better than all other specs at encounters by a massive margin (and that it's KjC that is causing it).

The perception that KjC is OP stems from the same reason why people think Chaos Bolt is OP in PvP; It's ubiquitous and easily noticeable. In reality it keeps Warlocks (especially Affliction and Destro) competitive with other specs on movement fights.

Please remember as well that picking KjC excludes the warlock from both AV and MF (which for Destro in this tier, MF is used on more fights than KjC)

i do for fights like jikun, lei shen, twins if im doing patterns. Just becasue you don't don't mean it is a bad talent

as to OP it will hurt destro more than affliction because when affliction moves you have multiple dots rolling we don't we have immolation. our main damage is incinerates and CB so unless there is going to be procs for free incinerates then it will hurt that spec more than affliction.

Why dont they just make it as they did for Elemental shamans then, Elemental got their filler spell on the move as baseline, do the same for affliction and it shouldn't be that bad imo. We would still have to stop to cast Haunt, just like elemental shamans has to do with Elemental Blast.

Also, if this change stays, for Affliction it will more often then not be a dps increase to NOT DO ANYTHING over casting fel flame wile moving (if your on high mana). Is that where blizzard wants us to be?

I'm sure the parameter is other classes' 90 level talents, and really not the abilities you would gain from now years old content. The design philosophy around talents have changed and every class get a new ability or gameplay-change-mechanic at 90.
Also it's not only about game balance, but the cool factor. Having a level 90 talent that is a copy of a level 15 mage talent, regardless of balance, doesn't look to be in tune with the current trend.

Not really, our 'awesome' talents are the Grimoires; that's no change from the old philosophy where 'end of the tree' talents came a few levels before capping. I also play Mage, Shadow Priest, Holy Paladin and Death Knight, all their 90 talents are pretty underwhelming. The Mage ones are particularly horrible because you need to completely relearn the class at 90.

Maybe you could give up blink and freezing targets in place and we'll talk about casting while moving for mages.
Moonkin dots are buffed if cast while moving and they have a set it and forget it damage ability that doesn't restrict movement.

I'm all for allowing SP's to Mindflay while moving as long as the slow is taken off (more PvP concern than PvE).