6815 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Mr. Ramsey, after16 December 26, 1996, did you ever go back in17 the house?18 A. No.19 Q. You never were in it after that?20 A. No.21 Q. Did you ever go back to the22 house?23 A. I think I drove by it, but I24 never went back to the house.25 Q. You mentioned Dorothy Allison

69 1 earlier. Is this Dorothy Allison the 2 psychic, she is now dead? 3 A. As far as I know. I heard she 4 is dead. 5 Q. Well, I said that. That wasn't a 6 question. Dorothy Allison is the Dorothy 7 Allison who was a psychic that's made 8 comments about this? 9 A. As far as I know. I never laid10 eyes on Dorothy Allison, nor heard her. She11 was on a television program about this case,12 and we received information as a result of13 some things she said in terms of leads.14 Q. Okay. And that was part of that15 packet you handed in there?16 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).17 Q. There was a sketch that was made18 based on a description that she --19 A. Right.20 Q. -- created. Are you aware of21 that, that sketch?22 A. Yes.23 Q. Have you gotten any leads as a24 result of that sketch?25 A. We have gotten -- I know the lead

70 1 level went up dramatically when we put that 2 out there, and I think the reason for 3 putting it out there was to keep things 4 stirred up. One of our objectives certainly 5 has been to keep this active in the public's 6 mind. 7 Q. So after that -- 8 A. Yeah, we got a lot of leads after 9 that.10 Q. When you say you put it out11 there, what do you mean?12 A. It was put on our website by the13 investigators.14 Q. Okay. And you say after that, it15 got put on your website, you got a lot 16 of --17 A. Yeah.18 Q. And is that still on your19 website?20 A. I haven't looked, but I don't21 believe so.22 Q. Why is that?23 A. We are trying to keep the website24 active so people come back. The whole25 objective here is to keep it stirred up,

71 1 keep it active. 2 Q. Is the ransom note on the 3 website? 4 A. It was -- well, the ransom note? 5 No, I don't think so. No, not that I know 6 of. I mean, I haven't seen it there. 7 Q. Was that a conscious decision not 8 to put it on? 9 A. I wasn't directly involved with10 what went on that website from the beginning. 11 I don't know if it was a conscious decision12 or not. 13 MR. WOOD: I think Ollie would14 probably know.15 THE WITNESS: I think it's on the16 web in other places, I've been told.

Now I have not been one to publicly criticize the Ramseys and their friends in the past but I will here and now. I personally continue to think it is important to keep the discussion going - to keep people talking about this unsolved case. I think the Internet is a great tool to use - and the Ramseys, their family and friends have not continued to do that - and I think that is a shame. Several URLs are no longer active and I wish they were.

I don't work for the Ramseys, never did, and never took direction from them. I have done what I have done because of my own drive and I think it is right to keep this going as long as the posters are willing to keep it alive. So we are here. I will share what I can and will do it in the way I think best.

Yes, the BORG is welcometo take the transcripts to their forums for discussion - I have no problem with that - - just want the truth out - let the chips fall where they may.

7117 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Have you been18 involved in any efforts to publicize the19 ransom note?20 A. No. Not -- we wanted it released21 early on based on strong recommendations that22 that be done, but --23 Q. But you haven't, yourself,24 promoted that or anything?25 A. Uh-uh (indicating negatively).

72 1 Q. Have you gotten anybody in the 2 last two years who has contacted you saying 3 they recognize the handwriting? 4 A. We have gotten, we have gotten 5 handwriting samples from people that say this 6 looks familiar. The woman that turned her 7 ex-husband in sent us a volume of his 8 handwriting samples. 9 Q. Well, she was dismissed on other10 grounds, from what I understand?11 A. Well, yes.12 Q. Was there anybody else besides her13 who submitted handwriting?14 MR. WOOD: I told you about the15 Fleet White package that I received.16 MR. KANE: Yes. That is right. 17 Fleet White.18 MR. LEVIN: If I can interrupt19 for just a second, that's based on20 linguistics, though, if I understood you?21 MR. WOOD: To tell you the truth,22 I haven't, other than to recognize what it23 was, I did not try to study it. So I24 wouldn't -- my impression was initially it25 was linguistics, but it might be, it might

73 1 reference handwriting. 2 MR. KANE: Was that a handwritten 3 note or something of Fleet or -- 4 MR. WOOD: No. It's about an 5 inch and a half thick report. 6 MR. KANE: Okay. But it's not 7 handwritten, I was talking about handwriting 8 here, was that in here? 9 MR. WOOD: That is what I was10 telling Bruce. I didn't study it other than11 to recognize that it was someone sending me12 an analysis of Fleet White's writings. And13 whether it is limited to linguistics or14 whether it goes into the handwriting issue, I15 wouldn't state on the record without being16 certain, but I will get that to you all and17 you will know exactly what it is.18 Q. (By Mr. Kane) So, I'm sorry, YOU19 were saying, you said the Allison woman. 20 Anybody else whose handwriting has been21 submitted based on -- well, by anybody?22 A. Well, we received a package that23 was delivered anonymously, which I believe we24 turned over to police a couple of years ago. 25 I don't know. It's been --

74 1 Q. I mean, to your recollection, has 2 there been any handwriting you received as a 3 result of the massive publicity about the 4 handwriting, or about the ransom note? 5 A. Is there any? Yeah, yeah. 6 Q. You received that or your 7 investigators have? 8 A. Yeah, as far as I know. 9 Q. Have you had any of that analyzed10 by any experts?11 A. I know early on we had Chris12 Wolf's handwriting looked at. I know we had13 them look at several.14 Q. There have been others that have15 been looked at by your experts?16 A. As far as I know.17 Q. Which experts are these now? I18 am aware of Mr. Ryle and Mr. Cunningham.19 A. As far as I know, that is who20 looked at it. 21 Q. And when you say as far as you22 know, I mean, have you talked to them about23 their --24 A. I've never talked to Ryle and25 Cunningham directly.

75 1 Q. Have you received information 2 about them, because I am not aware that they 3 looked at any others when I asked them 4 besides Chris Wolf? Have you received 5 information that they have, in fact, looked 6 at those? 7 A. I have not received information. 8 It is my impression that they have, yes. 9 Q. What was that impression based10 upon?11 A. The thousands and thousands of12 information bits that hit me every day from13 everywhere.14 I don't know. Ask them.

Seems to me that K&C (Kane and Company) didn't want to get into a lof of details - - didn't the discussion of the Fleet White package end quickly?

I believe someone online put together that Fleet White package. Analyzed his writings and wanted to share it with authorities. I would think they had sent that file to both the Ramseys and LE.

If I am right - why wouldn't K&C have told John that they had gotten the same package and were dealing with it in a proper fashion?

If I am wrong and they didn't know about the package, why didn't they show more interest?

Am I wrong in guessing they simply didn't want to follow anything but BORG leads?

7515 Q. (By Mr. Beckner) You mentioned16 Chris Wolf. Did you know Chris Wolf prior17 to the death of your daughter?18 A. No.19 Q. (By Chief Beckner) Had you ever20 heard of Chris Wolf?21 A. No.22 MR. WOOD: There is some23 connection between Wolf and the Colorado24 University. Somebody has indicated that25 there may have been.

76 1 MR. WICKMAN: I thought that he 2 had been to a class. 3 MR. KANE: I lost my place here. 4 Q. (By Mr. Kane) You are aware of 5 Jackie Dilson? 6 A. Uh-huh (affirmative). 7 Q. Have you ever spoken with Jackie 8 Dilson yourself? 9 A. Not directly, I don't believe. 10 We got a videotaped message from her months11 ago, and that's the first time I had ever 12 seen her.13 Q. So you never had an one-on-one14 conversation with her?15 A. No. Our investigators had, I16 know, at some length.

Doesn't sound to me like John was trying to push Wolf as the killer - - and doesn't sound to me like K&C was at all interested in seeing the tape Jackie sent the Ramseys. I think that is strange.

I would point out that this tape was available to Judge Carnes when she was considering the case Darnay Hoffman brought against the Ramseys on behalf of Chris Wolf. If she saw this, she saw Wolf was a suspect, not particularly pressed on LE by the Ramseys at all - just one of a few they wanted investigated with reason.

7617 Q. Do you recall, when you left18 Jalleo, is that how you pronounce it?19 A. Jalleo.20 Q. Jalleo. Jim Marino was quoted in21 the Denver papers about your leaving. Do22 you remember that at all?23 A. No, I don't remember the 24 quote.25 MR. WOOD: Do you have a quote

77 1 you can put in front of him to look at to 2 refresh him? 3 MR. KANE: I just asked him if 4 he would remember it. 5 MR. WOOD: Why don't you tell him 6 what the quote was. Maybe he will remember. 7 (By Mr. Kane) Well, he said that 8 you had left Jalleo to concentrate on the 9 investigation, that he had spoken to you the10 week before?11 A. I left Jalleo because of the12 tarnished reputation that had been laid upon13 me was detrimental to the business.14 Q. Okay. So it didn't have anything15 to do with spending more time on the16 investigation?17 A. No. 18 Q. You also said that you had gotten19 a lot of, maybe not a lot, but you got20 experts to volunteer their time on the case. 21 Who are those people? I never heard a name,22 but that statement.23 A. Well, it was part of the group24 that we asked to present to you in January. 25 John Douglas spent time on it. We have a

78 1 number of psychologists that have offered 2 their help. 3 Q. Do you know who they are? 4 A. Well, one of the letters I have 5 is in the file. We can certainly provide 6 that to you. 7 Q. I will be honest with you, when I 8 got the letter in January, the only person 9 who was mentioned in there was Kris Sperry. 10 A. My impression was that it was a11 group of people who had looked at it. It12 was being led by John -- wasn't Wardman. He13 used to be a -- whether it is a prosecutor14 in Denver or not, but I met with him a15 couple of times.16 Q. Was he the one from Oregon?17 A. Yes. I cannot remember the name. 18 But he had a medical associate that was19 involved with it, I know, out of New Mexico,20 I think.21 Q. What was that person's22 involvement?23 A. He was a, I believe -- I believe24 he was a --25 MR. LEVIN: Forensic pathologist?

79 1 That is Sperry. Out of New Mexico? 2 THE WITNESS: There is another 3 guy. 4 MR. RAMSEY: There are several -- 5 MR. LEVIN: Sperry worked in New 6 Mexico on an Indian reservation to pay off 7 his student loans many years ago. 8 THE WITNESS: No. This is a guy 9 who I believe currently lives in New Mexico. 10 It's not Sperry. I can get you their names. 11 I just don't remember off the top of my12 head. This was a year ago.

John was never deeply involved in the investigation. I don't know why and any guess would be ... just a guess. Right or wrong, he trusted others to do that.

7913 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Why did you write14 the book?15 A. Needed the money. First of all,16 we wanted to tell our story. We had been17 lied about in the press for three years. We18 wanted to address every one of the media19 myths that were out there. We wanted one20 place that the truth was encapsulated. And21 we wanted to find the killer of our22 daughter.23 Q. So by publicizing information, you24 thought it would generate --25 A. Yeah.

80 1 Q. Okay. Why did you decline to put 2 in anything about your own investigation? 3 A. One of the problems we had with 4 the book is it got way too big. I know 5 that. And we had to cut a lot. 6 Q. Why did you decide to cut that? 7 A. I don't know that we cut that at 8 all. I don't remember if it was in there 9 to start with.10 Q. Well, you made a statement about11 it. 12 MR. WOOD: What page?13 THE WITNESS: What's the point?14 MR. KANE: On page, it's 373.15 Q. (By Mr. Kane) You say to avoid an16 accusation of grand standing from the media,17 not much will be said outside of a close18 circle about our own efforts to find the19 killer.20 A. And not much has been said about21 it. 22 MR. WOOD: Doesn't that answer23 your question then?24 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Well, was that, I25 mean, was that the reason --

81 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. -- because you didn't want to be 3 accused of grand standing? 4 A. We have been in a position, and 5 we have been for the past three and a half 6 years, where we are damned if we do, damned 7 if we don't. And that was our position.

I was around when the book was written. The Ramseys wrote a lot - and the editors did their thing and a lot was cut there. Then the lawyers took out what they thought needed to be removed - - I am not just talking about Ramsey lawyers dealing with the investigation, protecting the investigation, but also lawyers working for the publishers who had different criteria when they were editing. They certainly were concerned about lawsuits.

81 8 Q. Do you still consider Priscilla 9 White to be a suspect?10 A. I never considered either of the11 Whites to be a suspect. Their behavior12 post-December '96 was very, very strange. 13 And that -- we were frightened of it, pure14 and simple.15 MR. WOOD: Did they ever --16 THE WITNESS: But I -- you know,17 we were at their home that evening, they18 were in good spirits, they had relatives19 there, I had no reason to consider them20 suspects.21 MR. WOOD: All of their letters,22 you made mention of this, and it now has23 struck that cord with me on handwriting, it24 seems that all of Fleet's and Priscilla's25 joint letters have been typed. Do you all

82 1 have handwriting on Fleet White? 2 MR. KANE: I am sure we do. I 3 know we do. 4 (By Mr. Kane) Maybe the word 5 suspect then needs to be defined. Do you 6 today think there is a possibility that 7 Priscilla White killed your daughter? 8 A. We have not eliminated anyone in 9 our minds. We have become suspicious of10 everyone. And that's how I feel.11 Q. Is there anything, other than what12 you described on several occasions about what13 happened down in Atlanta around the time of14 the funeral, is there anything other than15 that that would suggest --16 A. Yeah. God, he is in the paper17 every few months with some 20 page letter. 18 I just think that -- I don't understand it. 19 I can't explain it. I don't know if he --20 I mean, it was a traumatic event. They were21 there. I don't know. But our feeling was22 that their behavior was frightening.23 MR. WOOD: You all are aware that24 there is a problem exists between the libel25 charges and all of the background behind

83 1 that? 2 MR. KANE: Yes. 3 MR. WOOD: So all of that, for 4 whatever reason, is bizarre. 5 THE WITNESS: But it makes no 6 sense. 7 MR. WOOD: Or for whatever 8 reason. I am not suggesting bizarre to any 9 individual, but the whole thing is bizarre.10 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mr. Ramsey, I11 don't know for a fact it has been answered,12 so if the question sounds kind of naive,13 bear with me. Neither Priscilla nor Fleet,14 since '98, have made any attempts to contact15 you, reconcile, restore your friendship, have16 they?17 A. Well, they -- we were staying at18 the Stein's, and they apparently, I learned19 later, approached Susan, asked to meet with20 us. And she refused. I wasn't aware of21 that at the time. There would have been no22 reason to do that. But maybe that added23 fuel to the fire. I don't know. From24 their perspective.25 But I had written Fleet. I had

84 1 a sail off of a sailboard that belonged to 2 him that got packed inadvertently. And I 3 sent it back to him with a note, don't 4 believe what you've read in the media. 5 He burst in on me one day when I 6 was meeting with our minister, and I talked 7 to him then. But other than that -- 8 Q. But nothing in '99 or since June 9 of '98 --10 A. No.11 Q. -- no attempts or no letters from12 them to renew --13 A. No.14 Q. -- your friendship?15 A. No.

Oh - I have told you all so many times that the Ramseys did NOT accuse the Whites. I am glad this is public so you can see for yourself what happened.

The Ramseys have sometimes trusted people to take charge when they were unavailable (emotionally or physically) and I think sometimes mistakes were made that the Ramseys should have cleared up but didn't.

Egos and hurt egos did play a large part in this saga. More than anyone will ever know.

8416 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Have you been17 critical of the Boulder police for not18 interviewing everyone who was around the19 neighborhood?20 A. I have been told that that wasn't21 done at the beginning, and I had been22 critical of that, yes.23 Q. The people who were not24 interviewed, have your investigators25 interviewed them?

85 1 MR. WOOD: Hold on one second. 2 I think you are comparing apples and oranges, 3 slightly. If I understood your question, you 4 are asking, was he critical of the fact they 5 weren't interviewed. 6 MR. KANE: Yeah. 7 MR. WOOD: And I think his answer 8 was, yes, that they weren't interviewed early 9 on. And obviously the opportunity for his10 investigators to interview them early on, you11 know, is lost.12 THE WITNESS: My understanding is13 the information we sent to Chief Beckner was14 a list of people that we were aware of that15 hadn't been talked to, and I believe the16 Chief said he had, that that had been done. 17 So --18 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Have any of your19 investigators interviewed any of those people20 themselves?21 A. I know they have interviewed a22 number of people. I don't know if they have23 interviewed all of them. I mean, ask our24 investigator.25 Q. Mr. Ramsey, to follow up on the

86 1 neighborhood, it was brought to my 2 attention -- 3 THE WITNESS: Do we want an 4 answer to that question or not? 5 MR. WOOD: If you all make your 6 list, add that to the list when all is said 7 and done, and I will consider it and get you 8 an answer if it is appropriate. It probably 9 will be.

Someone PLEASE tell me what this has to do with finding the killer of JonBenét Ramsey. Surely I am not the only one waiting for some evidence discussion, some sharing of tip files, something that could help find SickPuppy!

Instead K&C want to know how much money is in the foundation and they want to know if the Ramseys really did complain about the sorry work done in the neighborhood when it came to interviewing all neighbors and possible witnesses.

Kane leaves the interview soon - I will post through that and get back to it tomorrow.

8610 Q. (By Mr. Levin) It was brought to11 my attention fairly recently that a woman I12 believe named Jean Fortier, F-o-r-t-i-e-r, for13 the reporter, who are the parents of some14 children who were over your house on15 Christmas, and they, they, she, excuse me,16 said that her children reported to her at17 Christmas day when they went over to play,18 they played with Burke but that JonBenet did19 not play because she was sick. I hadn't20 heard that before. Is that nonsense?21 A. Absolutely. I don't know who22 that is, but we had a whole parcel of kids23 there all day.24 MR. KANE: I have to bolt.25 MR. LEVIN: Do you have anything

This is 2000 and they had JUST heard about the Fortier children going to the Ramsey house Christmas day? Good Grief!

For the record, I believe they heard about that incident by Frank Coffman. And for the record, it did prove to be false.

There were kids in and out that day - I believe the Fortier kids were there and that Burke also went to their house for a short time. But no one was sick and unable to play - that is a BORG myth (the theory being she had been sexually assaulted and recovering - garbage.)

I am off for the day - not only limiting my time on the forum but honestly hope putting this out a bit at a time will get people to really read the parts I post - - not lose details as happens when a large document is put out.

As for me posting the entire thing - I am not comfortable with that right now as there are names in there that have never been made public. If Lin wants to share the file with anyone else, that is his choice. I won't.