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ive tried red hat and mandrake (which btw is like almost exactly the same cause mandrake is just a redhat clone) and i wanna try something else. im a complete newbie but i know the basics, what distro should i try out next?

^^Refer to the post above^^Dude go slack, you'll never go back You'll be hooked on Slack for life, especially if you've already experienced, first hand, the tragedy that is known as redhat. Or go Debian (deb packages are easy as hell to install)

LOL, well I find my self selling all my [censored] to get new computer [censored] and games. Yet sometimes i need a new bass or an amp, or something... That is when I start up my small side job... It's good being a contract killer, I mean uhh problem solver... Pays well. <img border="0" alt="[Bang]" title="" src="graemlins/bang.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Sheep]" title="" src="graemlins/sheep.gif" />

Linux has become commercialized. It sucks [censored] nowadays because everyone's getting crappy distros like Mandrake and RH. RH is always full of security holes. Mandrake...PAAH! It's a n00b kit that replaces windoze. People are like "now i'm 31337 because i use LINUX" but in reality, there's no diff because they still use the GUI for everything and never learn what really makes the system work! Debian and Slack are semi-ok distros.

The only way Linux will help anyone become a better "hacker" is if they ditch X86 and get to know the command line and how the tools there work. Those tools are basically the back end for almost any app in X anyway.

Granted, though, Linux is a nice, free system that's passable if it's used right, but as I see it, people go out and cough up a hundred or so dollars for mandrake and crap like that when they can find a bajillion free linux CD's floating around in the backs of library books (HINT, HINT! See your computer section!) or at LUG meetings.

Besides, X Windows in almost any form (Gnome, KDE, blackbox, etc.) all present a security hazard because of their ability to shoot back an XTerm that cannot be detected by an IDS.

UNIX, however, has been around decades, and while it still has bugs, it has a lot less than barely 10 year old Linux, the new home of lamers and script kiddies.

Well, in some way we kinda are. Linux IS a UNIX-compatible implementation, just like Free,Net, and Open BSD are as well. I'm sure you knew that right?

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Linux has become commercialized

True. But so has Windows, but you still use it right?

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It sucks [censored] nowadays because everyone's getting crappy distros like Mandrake and RH.RH is always full of security holes

Why are they crappy?? Please elaborate. And as far as Red-Hat being buggy, that's not entirely true. It's really the packages or third party software that's included with RH or any distro for that matter, that make it so buggy

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Mandrake...PAAH! It's a n00b kit that replaces windoze.

This statement really errks me. Why do so many people think that Mandrake is specifically made for beginners??? Just because it has an easy to use graphical install?? Slackware is just as esay to install as Mandrake. Why not bash Slackware??? I'd much rather prefer to have an easier install than spend counteless hours trying to install something like Gentoo.That way I have more time to get rid of things I don't need and secure the box up.

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People are like "now i'm 31337 because i use LINUX"

What people??? I don't think I'm "31337" because I use Mandrake. Nor will I ever be "31337". Nor do I care.

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there's no diff because they still use the GUI for everything

I don't.

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Debian and Slack are semi-ok distros.

Semi-ok?? What's the matter too hard for you to install?? I think those are the 2 top distros in the Linux community, as far as reliability and stability go. Just my $0.02.

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The only way Linux will help anyone become a better "hacker" is if they ditch X86 and get to know the command line and how the tools there work

Man, I can do the same things from X-windows as in the command line. What difference does it make to use the CLI or X?? Although I do agree with you that learning the command line is essential.

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people go out and cough up a hundred or so dollars for mandrake

I only spent 30$. I think it was worth it. Better than speding a couple hundred for Windows, eh?

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X Windows in almost any form (Gnome, KDE, blackbox, etc.) all present a security hazard because of their ability to shoot back an XTerm that cannot be detected by an IDS

Wrong. You can have Snort alert you if there are incoming connections on an X server via snort rules. Although iptables isn't an IDS, it can stop people from connecting your X server as well. And configuring your hosts.deny file to not allow outside connections will do the trick as well. One more thing, Mandrake by default doesn't allow X connections unless you specify which IP's you want to allow to connect.

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UNIX, however, has been around decades, and while it still has bugs, it has a lot less than barely 10 year old Linux

I agree with you there. But that shouldn't stop you or anyone from using Linux. Heck, there's even more to fix and play around with. Can't get any better than that.

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Why, oh why do people have to get Linux!

Because we can.

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Why not UNIX !?

Errr...One of several reasons not that many people use it is because it's just not as wellknown as Linux is.The UNIX distros I can think of that are widley available are Plan-9 from bell-labs, Digital UNIX from compaq, and Solaris. And those are also just UNIX clones, from what I understand. Oh yeah, there's also AIX$$$$$, HP-UX$$$$, and IRIX$$$$$$. As you can see from those money signs, they cost quite a bit of money as well. So there you have it.

Also, I think it's kinda funny that you expect people on this board to use UNIX when you say most of them are lamers and you yourself have noticed that there isn't as much "intelligent fervor" as there used to be.

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.

Scallions comments also irked me, but I hadn't replied since I didn't have the knowledge in this area to back me up. Thanks mtlhd.

I'd like to add my support in this area...

they still use the GUI for everything

I installed RedHat 6.1 - a distro my dad got me a couple years ago. This is my first time - BUT - I chose NOT to install the GUI's cause I don't wanna learn them. I also installed it not so that I could feel LEET, but rather cause I wanted my webserver to run on something more secure. And trust me, it will be no less secure than on UNIX if the only daemon running is apache. Another reason I wanted to learn how to use linux is cause it's no nonsense. I don't go for fancy and pretty looks windows has. I like efficiency.

And you, my friend, have a very VERY narrow concept on what people want and why they do things.

And lastly, why get UNIX? More reliable? More stable? More secure? How can you get more reliable than in perfect working order? How can you get more stable when it never crashes (on me). How can you get it more secure when there's only one daemon running? I'm not going to PAY for something that gives me NO additional benefit!

Ok, granted I was a little pissed about Linux when I wrote that, so I'll just say that most all distros are kinda crappy and have their problems, of which there are more than UNIX.

UNIX and Linux are not the same thing. They use a diff kernel - Linus Torvalds created Linux from scratch as an ALTERNATIVE to the costly UNIX platforms of his day.

I'd just like to point out that you were incorrect in this statement:

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Wrong. You can have Snort alert you if there are incoming connections on an X server via snort rules. Although iptables isn't an IDS, it can stop people from connecting your X server as well. And configuring your hosts.deny file to not allow outside connections will do the trick as well. One more thing, Mandrake by default doesn't allow X connections unless you specify which IP's you want to allow to connect.

Shooting back an Xterm is using the code that you insert into the buffer from a buffer overflow to initiate a connection back to your computer, whence you can use Xterm to execute commands on the target computer. It's an OUTGOING connection, which is 'most always allowed. Snort can check incoming, but IDS's dont check outgoing connection requests.

Be irked all you like folks, but one day you'll realize that all you use your X-Windows boxes for is to look at porn and play tetris.

Didn't both mtlhd and I say we don't use X-Windows or any other GUI?

You must represent about 70% of the population then. Lose some weight.

Ok, this doesn't make sense. mtlhd just says that he doesn't use linux GUI's for everything. Then you say he is apart of 70% of the population. So that must mean 70% of the population does NOT use linux GUI's for everything. But before, you said linux users DID use linux GUI's for everything. You're contradicting yourself.

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look, stop, think about what you're doing. You're pissing people off. Why? Not because you stated an opinion, it's because you're bashing people in the process. Very cruel attitude directed at EVERYBODY in a given area. You can state your opinions without being an [censored] hole you know.

Windows is a great thing for many people, linux is a great thing for many of another type of people, and unix is for another type of people. Each group has their very valid and true reasons. Each group has their different circumstances and constraints. So show an ounce of understanding k?

Ok, this doesn't make sense. mtlhd just says that he doesn't use linux GUI's for everything. Then you say he is apart of 70% of the population. So that must mean 70% of the population does NOT use linux GUI's for everything. But before, you said linux users DID use linux GUI's for everything. You're contradicting yourself.

WTF?

look, stop, think about what you're doing. Doing that now.You're pissing people off. Ok.Why? Because my attitude about voicing my opinion differs from theirs.Not because you stated an opinion, it's because you're bashing people in the process. If you can't take some bashing, go live in a cardboard box. I take bashing every day at work.Very cruel attitude directed at EVERYBODY in a given area. I just said linux was a n00b kit and lots of lamers used it. Feeling like something's directed at you?You can state your opinions without being an [censored] hole you know.I could, but what point would there be in life then?Windows is a great thing for many people, W00f, i pity those people.linux is a great thing for many of another type of people,Some of which suck, and some of which do not. and unix is for another type of people.Again, some of which suck, some dont. Each group has their very valid Doubtful about validity here...and true reasons. True reasons, duh, else they wouldn't be using it.Each group has their different circumstances and constraints. Since we dont live in a "brave new world" (read the book, you'll get it) then i guess so...So show an ounce of understanding k? I have more than an ounce of understanding. Maybe...like...2. Or 3, on a good day.

Just out of curiousity, what OS ARE YOU running, Scallion? I agree with you about most of the UNIX vs Linux arguement. Unix has advantages over Linux. In my oppinion, BSD is the way to go if you need UNIX - not just because it's free - You will be Ph33R3d. If you like Linux (who doesn't?) Slackware is a great distro, I don't care what anyone says about it. Stable as a mother [censored], rock-hard solid. Slack's the way to go. [censored] redhat AND its [censored], Mandrake <img border="0" alt="[Alien]" title="" src="graemlins/alien.gif" /> If you use rh or mandrake, please ask yourself why. It's never too late to switch.

Originally posted by Asteos:Just out of curiousity, what OS ARE YOU running, Scallion? I agree with you about most of the UNIX vs Linux arguement. Unix has advantages over Linux. In my oppinion, BSD is the way to go if you need UNIX - not just because it's free - You will be Ph33R3d. If you like Linux (who doesn't?) Slackware is a great distro, I don't care what anyone says about it. Stable as a mother [censored], rock-hard solid. Slack's the way to go. [censored] redhat AND its [censored], Mandrake <img border="0" alt="[Alien]" title="" src="graemlins/alien.gif" /> If you use rh or mandrake, please ask yourself why. It's never too late to switch.

Oh gosh, why is everybody bashing about slackware is cool, slackware is 31337 and mandrake and redhat are [censored], they are for newbies, geez, that's bullshit. True, mandrake and rh are ways much easy to configure, but please stop this bullshit (oh and before you start flaming on me, i do run slackware and fbsd, so please, first do think before you flame me, lol)

Never argue with fools... They will only drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience...