In fairness, we have almost a completely new coaching staff, new offensive game plan, a legit tight-end in Bennett, etc. This isn't your typical Bears pre-season so yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Beats the hell out of watching the Sox come up with new ways to lose.

We?

You're not going to learn a single thing with these reports from camp. Go to every NFL camp and you'll notice one thing- they all look the same. The way the NFL is structured now with practice time limits and when they can and can't hit, there's very little for them to show during practice. Most of the work goes on in film work and in the GM's office.

__________________
"I told you I'd give my left nut to help this team." Paul Konerko

I'm young (23), so I don't remember many bad Sox teams. This one right here is the worst Sox team I have ever seen. No one up to bat has a plan, no one on this team can field properly, and the pitching has NO offensive help AT ALL. I never thought I'd see a Sox team have 51 losses before the all-star break. I don't know what else to say what has already been said about this team. What a mess.

I am old enough to have seen some of the train wrecks in the 80s, but this is about as bad as it gets. Having said that, I was disgusted by the constantly underachieving that happened in the 90s almost more than this. I'm disgusted a team that won the World Series only returned to the playoffs once. My point being, sometimes these types of seasons need to happen, and they can be easier to deal with because you let it go for a year or two and return when the franchise gets it's act together. (By "return" I mean watching games regularly.)

Ventura never wanted this role. For all the praise, he needs to show he actually wants to do this. His team died on him last year after being in first for 100 games, and they are one of the worst Sox teams ever this year. That is not a good start to a manager's career.

__________________"I'm sorry that you don't like our manager," Williams says he told him.

"I'm sorry that you don't like our 3-4-5 hitters. Or our closer.

"I'm sorry that you don't like our third baseman and our shortstop. Or our left fielder and our right fielder.

"I'm sorry people feel this way about our club. But I also want you to know something about that:

I The Sox were coming off a year where they spent 110+ days in first place and expected to contend again for a division title. Contending was their plan for 2013 and it has obviously been a failure.

The organization finally got bit in the behind for resting on the laurel of being a contender, rather than actually accomplishing anything.. So the Sox were in first for a good part of 2012.. who cares? they choked down the stretch and didn't go to the postseason.. that's the bottom line.. were the reasons WHY they choked addressed? No, they werent

People have commented as to why the Sox don't draw... Stone commented that the Sox didn't draw in 2012 even though there were in first.. Sox fans aren't stupid, they can sniff a winner.. They drew in 06 cause the majority of the 05 team was in tact plus they added Thome.. give me a frikkin break

My point being, sometimes these types of seasons need to happen, and they can be easier to deal with because you let it go for a year or two and return when the franchise gets it's act together. (By "return" I mean watching games regularly.)

Ventura never wanted this role. For all the praise, he needs to show he actually wants to do this. His team died on him last year after being in first for 100 games, and they are one of the worst Sox teams ever this year.

Bingo.. My sentiments exactly.

Major MLB Market. Big City. Large Fanbase.. ability to spend $$$.. Close to the worst team in MLB despite being in the top 10 in payroll.. Tampa and Pittsburgh with a mere fraction that payroll and contending... it's downright shocking, yet .. I'll stop now, but .. what Pudge said.. sometimes these seasons need to happen

You're not going to learn a single thing with these reports from camp. Go to every NFL camp and you'll notice one thing- they all look the same. The way the NFL is structured now with practice time limits and when they can and can't hit, there's very little for them to show during practice. Most of the work goes on in film work and in the GM's office.

Please. You're going to call out the "we" on a sports fan message board of all places? Let me make it a little clearer - I will gladly watch almost anything other than maybe soccer to help me forget the White Sox for a while and that includes the NFL pre-season. I'm not watching because I think I'm going to "learn" something but thanks for explaining the NFL to me.

I think it is unfair to compare what the Cubs are doing and what the Sox are now dealing with. The Cubs went into this season knowing they would be awful and building for 2 or 3 years down the road. The Sox were coming off a year where they spent 110+ days in first place and expected to contend again for a division title. Contending was their plan for 2013 and it has obviously been a failure. The wheels are coming off the wagon this season and the team is going to be changing gears soon. We simply have to wait for the trades to happen before we can know for sure what Hahn's specific plan B is now that plan A has been a disaster. The Sox front office keeps things very close to the vest and don't use the media to hype upcoming roster decisions. Phegley and Simon Castro could be the first part of plan B being put in motion.

You honestly think the Sox went into this year thinking that they had a legitimate shot at winning the division (or a wild card)? They got rid of one of their steadiest offensive contributors in AJ and replaced him with a glorified AAAA backstop. The Keppinger deal was just filler and wasn't going to put us over the hump.

Even the most optimistic among us didn't figure we had much of a shot this year to say nothing of the collective opinion of the media that had the Sox pegged as a .500 team, at best.

I think it is unfair to compare what the Cubs are doing and what the Sox are now dealing with. The Cubs went into this season knowing they would be awful and building for 2 or 3 years down the road. The Sox were coming off a year where they spent 110+ days in first place and expected to contend again for a division title. Contending was their plan for 2013 and it has obviously been a failure. The wheels are coming off the wagon this season and the team is going to be changing gears soon. We simply have to wait for the trades to happen before we can know for sure what Hahn's specific plan B is now that plan A has been a disaster. The Sox front office keeps things very close to the vest and don't use the media to hype upcoming roster decisions. Phegley and Simon Castro could be the first part of plan B being put in motion.

Good post. Let's not define the Sox within the context of the Cubs. It's two different situations. Just because we don't know what the Sox are planning doesn't mean the front office doesn't have a plan.

I do realize the Cubs came out and said, "We're rebuilding. It's going to be a long process. Be patient with us." That's nice. Good for them. It seems some fans are expecting the Sox to make a similar annoucement. Well, what if the Sox have no intention of undertaking a Cubs' style rebuild? They aren't going to come out and announce that when that's not their intention. Why would they?

IMO, the Sox are aware they can't afford to do what the Cubs are doing. A total rebuild might make sense from a pure baseball perspective, but it would be a highly questionable choice from a business perspective. I don't think Sox fans will support a long-term rebuilding project. Further, the Sox are already slipping into irrelevance in the city, and I don't think they can afford to be irrelevant for four or five years. After that, it would take multiple years of success to bring the fans back.

You honestly think the Sox went into this year thinking that they had a legitimate shot at winning the division (or a wild card)?

Yes the organization did believe they had a shot. They chose to allocate their dollars to bringing back Jake Peavy instead of AJ. You don't bring back Jake Peavy this season if you thought you were going to be a .500 team. They had Flowers pegged as the #1 catcher heir for the last few years as a younger, cheaper alternative to the aging AJ. They were expecting a lot more out of Flowers and he has been a flop. Flowers ended up proving to everyone that he is just a backup but I don't believe the Sox viewed him as "AAAA" as you put it. They thought highly of him or they wouldn't have handed him the reigns. Keppinger was supposed to be a great bat handler, be the ideal #2 hitter, cut down on the strikeouts, and make the Sox offense less HR reliant as they were in 2012. Obviously, none of these moves have worked out at all and I'm not trying to defend them but I believe they were all made with an eye towards contending this year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB98

Good post. Let's not define the Sox within the context of the Cubs. It's two different situations. Just because we don't know what the Sox are planning doesn't mean the front office doesn't have a plan.

I do realize the Cubs came out and said, "We're rebuilding. It's going to be a long process. Be patient with us." That's nice. Good for them. It seems some fans are expecting the Sox to make a similar annoucement. Well, what if the Sox have no intention of undertaking a Cubs' style rebuild? They aren't going to come out and announce that when that's not their intention. Why would they?

Yep. I also don't expect much in the way of announcements either. It's just not in their nature to call press conferences to say "we have a plan and please bear with us". Under the stewardship of KW, the team operates in the shadows. I don't expect this to change under Hahn. The only info you get comes from leaks from other GMs letting the media know they talked to the Sox about a certain guy. The trades and roster moves they make in the next 1 to 6 months will show the fans what direction the franchise is headed, not a catchy marketing phrase like the "Kids Can Play" nor a GM holding a press conference talking about a rebuild.

__________________
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done." -George Carlin

You honestly think the Sox went into this year thinking that they had a legitimate shot at winning the division (or a wild card)? They got rid of one of their steadiest offensive contributors in AJ and replaced him with a glorified AAAA backstop. The Keppinger deal was just filler and wasn't going to put us over the hump.

Even the most optimistic among us didn't figure we had much of a shot this year to say nothing of the collective opinion of the media that had the Sox pegged as a .500 team, at best.

I think they did. The problem was they weren't willing to do what it took to have a good chance to turn the tables. They made a weak effort to shore up the offense, and hurt the defense with the small effort they made (Keppinger). And they signed Wise to be the top bench bat, which wasn't close to a serious effort.

Yep. I also don't expect much in the way of announcements either. It's just not in their nature to call press conferences to say "we have a plan and please bear with us". Under the stewardship of KW, the team operates in the shadows. I don't expect this to change under Hahn. The only info you get comes from leaks from other GMs letting the media know they talked to the Sox about a certain guy. The trades and roster moves they make in the next 1 to 6 months will show the fans what direction the franchise is headed, not a catchy marketing phrase like the "Kids Can Play" nor a GM holding a press conference talking about a rebuild.

Agreed. And what if a rebuild isn't in their plans? They can't come out and say, "Dear Sox fans, Here are the players we intend to acquire via trade and during free agency next offseason ... We hope to return to contention next year." That would be ridiculous.

This whole idea that the organization needs to make some sort of announcement of its future direction seems nonsensical to me. Their words mean nothing anyhow. It is their actions and results that count.

Yes the organization did believe they had a shot. They chose to allocate their dollars to bringing back Jake Peavy instead of AJ. You don't bring back Jake Peavy this season if you thought you were going to be a .500 team. They had Flowers pegged as the #1 catcher heir for the last few years as a younger, cheaper alternative to the aging AJ. They were expecting a lot more out of Flowers and he has been a flop. Flowers ended up proving to everyone that he is just a backup but I don't believe the Sox viewed him as "AAAA" as you put it. They thought highly of him or they wouldn't have handed him the reigns. Keppinger was supposed to be a great bat handler, be the ideal #2 hitter, cut down on the strikeouts, and make the Sox offense less HR reliant as they were in 2012. Obviously, none of these moves have worked out at all and I'm not trying to defend them but I believe they were all made with an eye towards contending this year.

It may be the "there's no book on him" burst, but at least Phegley is providing some excitement. I don't mind Flowers as a back-up, but I don't like him as a starter. If Phegley is a potential starter for us though, we may need a veteran guy to help tutor him.