Well at first I had no idea who he was xD. So I thought "Hobo be Hot"Then I found out it was Phoenix and I was very sad for him and I was thinking "how the hell did this happen?" then I played the flashback case. I cried. I felt soooooo bad for him! But now after completing the game I really like him, he's so sarcastic and funny, but I like old blue-suit Phoenix too.

I threw my DS after I learned he was disbarred. I literally threw it at my wall. And I had to buy a new one. It sucked. (Now you know my stance on Apollo...)

I would've done that, too. Except I don't own the DS. Yes, I feel for you. Even after playing AJ, I still don't feel the smallest ounce of sympathy for Apollo. He just steals Phoenix's thunder, if you ask me. A huge contrast to the first game, though. Phoenix got me hooked from his first "Objection!"

DarkWobbuffet wrote:

Pretty pissed off, to say the least. Espeically after that incredable ending he had in 3-5, and after what Mia told him, that he was on par with her as an attorney. Then we find out barely two months later he lost everything. It's like saying Mia was wrong and that Phoenix can't do shit without her help.

Yeah, that just rubbed salt on the already-gaping wound. I played T&T before AJ, and the new game went too anti-climatic. That's what makes T&T my favorite game.

MattSamyel wrote:

I wasn't ready to encounter the Phoenix in AJ, at least not in the first trial, so my first thought was like 'WTF?'

LawyerPhoenix/HoboPhoenix were two quite different persons tho.

But it was fun to see him Object

Yeah, he does seem to be completely different, but I felt even just a bit happier in 4-4 when I realized he's still quite the same old Nick. He even still has the same old sarcasm and bad jokes. I think he just puts up that poker face in front of Apollo. Yes, and I was on the brink of wailing like a banshee when I saw his pointer finger out there and when I got to play him in the last episode. Seriously, I played it only for him. Wouldn't have cared less if he wasn't.

And speaking of which...This was going through my head once the judge confirmed Phoenix's identity to us.

Sure I feel bad for him getting disbarred especially after playing T&T .Man I was kinda disappointed . I thought he would at least do his job a bit longer.But Hobohodou was fine to me,still the same Phoenix with his sarcasms and jokes,but look cooler.

I can't give a translation, but this is most likely the Judge's alternate response when Phoenix said not to talk about the past. Here, he talks about the very first time Phoenix ever appeared in the courtroom.

Spoiler: GS3-1

It goes even before Phoenix debuted as a lawyer. He was the prime suspect for Doug Swallows' murder.

And yes, along with that came pretty strange and, not to mention, pretty embarrassing memories. Yup, Phoenix just lost his bad ass persona.

I thought my friend was kidding when she said "Yeah, Phoenix lost his badge and now he's weird and hobo-ish." Then I thought the game was kidding when it told me the same. HoboPhoenix is awesome, but I still think of him as a totally different person to the real Phoenix (he probably came in from a parallel universe through a warp in the space-time continuum or something). And I still think his role could've been replaced with Godot for equally epic results.

I first saw him in this same site, on the official art.I thought: "So that's how he dresses without his suit? Pretty cool."When I played Apollo Justice, I feel he was not the same, but I didn't got emotional over his disbarrement.I just thought he would have more time as a attorney.

My very first thought was, wait, that's not Phoenix... is it?I didn't take much notice as GS4 was the first AA game I played... but then after playing the others I was like, okay, that's... that's really not Phoenix. At all.

At first I thought he was too different from the Phoenix I used to see until the end of T&T. The way he spoke and his expression made him look much more wiser, more serious and mysterious than what he used to be. So I thought Capcom stretched it a bit too far.

Spoiler:

But when you get to play as him during his last trial as defense attorney, you can see his ways growing more mature, especially when the forged evidence is revealed, and that made me understand and accept his change.

"Like a gem, polished to a gleam through trials... and errors. It is this fruit we receive, and pass on, and face in our time. And it is always changing, growing. Nurturing it is our task as human beings."

Okay, what I'm about to say could be considered highly controversial, and I'm sure plenty will disagree with this theory of mine, but take it with a grain of salt.

Spoiler:

After playing through this game again, it's come to my guess that the writers wrote Phoenix in this manner on purpose.

What I mean is they were trying to make Phoenix unlikable. Consider what he did in 4-1 with the bloody ace. Now I'm not going to say what he did was right, it wasn't. I do understand he needed to do it, as it was absolutely needed to catch Kristoph and save his and Orly's lives. But here's the thing, people throughout the AA fandom hate what he did to the point they don't even think of him as a good person anymore. Take a few examples of what some people say about it...

Quote:

Phoenix willingly forges evidence to put Kristoph away - that's supremely stupid. I know that he got dumped (by Krisoph, no less) with forged evidence, but two wrongs don't make a right. He wouldn't have ever done that if he had a badge, but now that he has nothing, ti's OK now? Please. I know you're bitter and all, Nick, but that doesn't excuse it.

Oh well, at least I don't have to see this evil Phoenix that much.

No wonder Phoenix went psycho.

Frankly, I'm rather flabbergasted about the lack of sympathy for Phoenix throughout the AJ fandom. After everything he's been through for seven long years, all he is to the fans now is an evil forger who's a prime target for hobo jokes. I suppose part of this has to do with the fact that the writers didn't really work his depression over what happened into the dialogue. Yes you can get some reactions about it if you examine various things, but people seem to either take this as jokes or not even bother to look at everything, judging from the lack of sympathy towards him.

They also went out of their way to make lawyer Phoenix seem "obsolete", what with him being unusually arrogant in the flashback trial, having him get out-smarted by the new prosecutor, and making his Magatama useless against the main villain.

The writers' apparent attitude about Phoenix might very well stem from the fact that Phoenix was originally never planned to be in the game. He was forced in thanks to the marketing department getting this bizarre idea that AJ wouldn't sell to the older fans unless Phoenix was somehow in it. I believe the writers resented this, and showed their distaste in what they had to do by ruining Phoenix's life and trying to convey him as an unlikable douchebag.

This distaste seemed even more obvious to me in the flashback case, when you get the "option" as to whether to present the forged page or not. By this point you know the page will lead to Phoenix's downfall, but you can't choose not to present it. It feels to me like the writers are taunting Phoenix's fans in doing this.

It feels they want the fans of the original trilogy to think he's nothing more now then an evil shady creep who does bad things to get his way. Their goal? To make the fans forget about him and love Apollo and the new cast "instead", as opposed to "as well".

Sadly, even if this wasn't their true intention, it seems to be working, as many people, even those who used to love Phoenix, now despise and loathe him, to the point where they're itching to see him be a murder victim or even worse, a murderer. It really saddens me to see the series take such a dark and depressing turn.

Anyway, this is just a wild theory on my part, and I'll probably get flamed to hell for saying it, maybe even banned. But dangit, I just needed to let this out.

I admit, I was disappointed- I though it'd be nice to have him be the mentor, instead he seemed very cold. I'd like to see him in AJ2 get himself out of the rut and do something important and good. I'd like to see him work out some of his misgivings, and maybe get a girlfriend finally. Phoenix seemed to me like the beginning of a story and wasn't explored. Just explained. I hope they explore him more in AJ2 :)

As for the evidence thing, it was scare tactics. The evidence shouldn't have existed, but it wasn't officially presented as evidence in court, so he should've just said it was false. the fact it got information out of him that normally wouldn't have come out was a bonus. It was a sneeky trick, but not illegal. Real lawyers use tricks liek this all the time in court.

Personally, AJ just made me feel more sympathy for Phoenix and I'm ranting for more Phoenix Action after that. We knew the cast longer, thus there was more character development and sentimentality developed. With the way things are going, it seems AA fans are split between PW and AJ; and whichever side someone chooses, they end up hating the other.

Spoiler: Apollo Justice

Honestly, I was pretty disappointed in Phoenix in the first case, but since I swore my allegiance to him, I never stopped believing in him. It's kinda ironic, though, that AJ fans would hate Phoenix since I think Apollo was cast from the same mold--altruistic rookies who scrape by every case.

Sure, he seems cold, but when you actually get to play him, you get to see who he really is. In fact, I realized he's pretty much the same old Phoenix veteran AA fans have grown to love. He still has his sarcasm, his blunders, and even the his old speech pattern. Maybe what makes new AA fans despise him is the poker face he puts on mostly in front of Apollo. In short, I think the Hobo Phoenix persona is not the real him.

It could be that he doesn't want Apollo to follow the way he has done things--rely on the mentor-figure. Mia has always been around to save Phoenix's butt, but the only time he truly felt like a lawyer was in 3-5, when he said he would finish alone. Also, Phoenix couldn't always be around to babysit and to spoon-feed Apollo. He has his own business to attend to and he has no concrete obligation to lead him around.

Story-wise, if he was his bubbly old self, it takes all the mystery out of AJ. Phoenix might even take over as the main character, and AJ fans--and any person out for a good game--would certainly not appreciate that. Yes; we have to admit he stole the show in 4-1 and he could do it again. We know he can figure things out on his own, but this is Apollo's story. He has to step aside and be distant.

Plus, the criminals have become smarter, and Apollo can't even get himself some decisive evidence anymore. That's what has lead to the consideration of the Jurist System. It may be that the old system has become corrupt, and I see Phoenix as the anti-hero in the center of it. Perhaps, it's the surrounding circumstances that make him appear as a villain instead of a victim.

Frankly I think people tend to exaggerate Phoenix's "change" in personality far too much. Playing through the original trilogy, I saw plenty of times when Phoenix would act like a douche, or be very cryptic around others. Remember how he acted whenever someone brought up Edgeworth in PW2? He would act distant and vague, very similar to how he is when what happened seven years ago is brought up in AJ.

In fact, I'd say the way they wrote Phoenix was one of the things they did really well at in this game. The problem is we're all seeing him from another person's perspective, so he seems drastically different since we're not in his head, and we're supposed to be in the mindset of Apollo.

Sorry if I always get into long rants about this kind of thing. As a Phoenix fan I feel I have to do what I can to defend him on this thread when people bash him. XD;

Yes; the way he appears is practically based on Apollo's feelings. He idolized Phoenix and became disappointed in what he saw. Heck, seems to me even Apollo bashes him. Nobody can deny that Apollo tends to say not-so-nice things about him.

Yes; the way he appears is practically based on Apollo's feelings. He idolized Phoenix and became disappointed in what he saw. Heck, seems to me even Apollo bashes him. Nobody can deny that Apollo tends to say not-so-nice things about him.

From Apollo's point of view nobody can really blame him, Nick's not exactly been 100% honest or co-operative with him.

Made by Chesu+Zombee

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.

mmmm...It's nice seeing different points of view respecting to this topic.I was actually going to post 'wow he's hot'but.

IMO all of Phoenix's acts were the result of all that had happened to him, you know.. Why had he to forge that evidence the first case?because the law had changed and there had to be any sort of 'desicive proof' to win a case.and THAT was the only chance of him to be declared not guilty, the system was corrupted as he said.Now, you can't blame him for having done that sort of thing, it was wrong, but it was the only thing he could have done. It was clearer when the guitar player of the Gavinners (not Klavier of course) said that there was no way of making him guilty without that evidence.

So, how was phoenix going to be happy with his life. He had to work some way, so he became a poker player, he didn't need anything else.

Now, when I read here that it was some sort of offence to Phoenix's fans I didn't see it that way though, you know, when I played the fourth case, when we already knew we had to end presenting the forged evidence.. there was an option for not presenting it and in that moment I admit I was feeling sorry for phoenix, I didn't want anything that bad to happen to him and it was the great thing of that part you know, not every game makes you feel like if you were really inside it, I felt almost the same as Phoenix could have felt, and it was great. Obviously all that was unfair, but it was Kristoph Gavin who did that to him, Phoenix didn't want to do it himself and I thought it was made clear.Gumshoe said one time that the more succesful you were the more enemies you had, and that happened to Mr. Wright.

I don't see anything wrong in his acting, I felt he was the same phoenix as always BUT there was something inside him that had been hurting him all these 7 f****** years. He was upset of the new system.All he needed was a little 'Justice' <3

HoboPhoenix!Justice<3

Last edited by TheoMANOo on Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AJ wasn't out yet when I played through the first three games, but it was a month or so from release, and I'd already heard about Hobohodo from Nintendo Power. So I knew it was coming the entire time I played the other games.That being said, I was still sad for Phoenix. It wasn't like I was angry at the company or anything, or mad that the writers had decided to take that direction, but I was still sad for him because I'd grown kind of attached to the guy.The first time I really felt okay for him was in the second case when he first laughs. His expression was suddenly so relaxed and happy, and it seemed like he was still himself underneath everything else.I was also glad that they gave him Trucy so that he had one good thing in his life. I think he's an adorable father.

Furious. What happened to the often confused, sarcastic and amazing Phoenix?

When he first appeared I actually told myself it wasn't the same Phoenix as in Capcom had made a different character completely and called it Phoenix Wright. When the game said he had lost his badge I didn't play AJ for months. I was so angry.

My brother who only knew Nick's name just pointed out the screen when he saw a randow character. He asked me if that wad Phoenix and I said know. x) oh.... and when I learnt he lost his badge I almost ate my own tongue...:D

Frankly I think people tend to exaggerate Phoenix's "change" in personality far too much. Playing through the original trilogy, I saw plenty of times when Phoenix would act like a douche, or be very cryptic around others. Remember how he acted whenever someone brought up Edgeworth in PW2? He would act distant and vague, very similar to how he is when what happened seven years ago is brought up in AJ.

In fact, I'd say the way they wrote Phoenix was one of the things they did really well at in this game. The problem is we're all seeing him from another person's perspective, so he seems drastically different since we're not in his head, and we're supposed to be in the mindset of Apollo.

Sorry if I always get into long rants about this kind of thing. As a Phoenix fan I feel I have to do what I can to defend him on this thread when people bash him. XD;

Agree.

I believe he is still the same Phoenix Wright in the inside, just older, more matured, and have experienced many things in the seemingly long, 7 years. Who wouldn't change even a little bit after you just gained a 8-year-old daughter and lose the job you love and worked so hard for? I think I just contradicted myself. ^_^; I said he is the same Phoenix, then I said he changed. lol

But yeah, being in his shoes, seeing the court system is not working as well as it should be, and on top of that, a guy is out to get you, wouldn't you want to do something about it? Replaying 4-1 today, it seems like the court knew it wasn't actually the real evidence (since they believe that the real thing was taken away by the real killer). But still, what would you do if you were in his shoes? The defendant, no less.

But enough of that, back to my first impressions. I played JFA, AA, T&T, then AJ. Plus, after finishing T&T, I knew Phoenix had a daughter, though, I didn't know what Phoenix is like in AJ. I was shocked when I found out who the defendant in 4-1 was. Not sure what my other thoughts were. I just wanted to find out what happened to him, so I continued the game. I felt sorry for him, but after replaying the game a few times, I am happy, surprisingly. If Kristoph didn't do what he did, the whole Gramayre story would be left in the dark, along with Apollo and Trucy will never meet. Plus, becoming a dad, Phoenix changed for the better, at least to me, anyway.

I really like the new Phoenix. More than the past one. We just see him in Apollo's POV in GS4, and not knowing his inner dialogue we loved so much. He may seem arrogant in that flashback case, but don't you think 3-5 has changed him? Plus, Maya, Pearl and Mia weren't with him then, so he may seem different... Hmm...

Sometimes I wonder what the hell the developers were thinking when they decided to put Phoenix on the sidelines (remember the fiasco caused by making Raiden the main guy in MGS2 instead of Solid Snake?), but personally I also have doubts that the GS story could have remained exciting if Phoenix always won each case and the status quo never changed much. Overall, I kinda hope Phoenix remains a hobo but I also wouldn't mind it if he became a lawyer again.

Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788-1860) wrote:

Suffering by nature or chance never seems so painful as suffering inflicted on us by the arbitrary will of another.

To be honest, I liked Nick more in AJ then in his own series. *brick'd*He seems more cooler in AJ, with the way he operates, how he acts... and not to mention that I think he looks hotter as a hobo. There's also those adorable interactions with Trucy. I want to see him be OTT protective in the next game at one point, just for the lulz.

... Oh, and about the bloody ace. First off, it wasn't just Phoenix. It was also Trucy who was also involved in making it.Nick, being under-arrest, wasn't able to make the ace, so he asks Trucy to make it and give it to Apollo during the recess.Trucy isn't dumb though, so maybe he said that she would not be making a forgery, but a replica.

Yep. I think the bloody ace was in fact, a replica. I haven't played 4-1 in a while, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember Nick (or Trucy, for that matter) ever saying the bloody ace was the real deal. Everyone in the courtroom, including Apollo and Kristoph, just assumed it was. That lead to Apollo thinking it was a forgery at the end. Nick didn't say it wasn't, probably because Apollo wouldn't listen to him and think it was just a made-up excuse.

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