Thoughts from the interface of science, religion, law and culture

After spending several years touring the country as a stand up comedian, Ed Brayton tired of explaining his jokes to small groups of dazed illiterates and turned to writing as the most common outlet for the voices in his head. He has appeared on the Rachel Maddow Show and the Thom Hartmann Show, and is almost certain that he is the only person ever to make fun of Chuck Norris on C-SPAN.

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EVENTS

CWA Interns: Our Future Marriage Vows are Diminished!

Concerned Women for America sent a couple of their young interns down to the Supreme Court last Wednesday morning to file a report on what they saw. They lamented the fact that the anti-equality side was badly outnumbered and that the pro-equality side included Christian ministers. And then they ended with this:

As young, unmarried women, we feel the meaning of our future vows have already been diminished. As Christians, we believe that marriage is a union between a husband and wife that displays the love God has for His church. However, when this union is recognized as something different than God’s holy plan for marriage, the meaning of those sacred vows are no longer there.

Funny how gay couples getting married diminishes the sacred meaning of the wedding vows, but Newt Gingrich marrying a string of mistresses doesn’t. And do they really believe that? Of course not. If they did, they wouldn’t get married at all. After all, the vows would no longer be sacred and they have no meaning. But they’ll still get married and they’ll mean their vows and it will have absolutely no effect at all on their marriages. Because all this talk of gay marriage diminishing and ruining the sanctity of marriage is gibberish. They don’t mean it. Hell, they don’t even know what it means. They’re just empty words.

What was the most shocking about our experience was the fact that there was no clear praise by the “gay marriage” supporters after the ruling was announced. While there were a few instances where the crowd would cheer, there was no real celebration. We were astonished that after such a strong show of support, they had such little response.

I wonder what these naïfs expected? That the pro-equality crowd would fall on their knees and start praising the LAWD for taking away the free will of the Supreme Court majority and forcing them to rule the way they wanted it to. Or, more likely, did they expect the crowd to start stripping and having sex on the courthouse steps that they could then titillate the rubes back at home with.

we believe that marriage is a union between a husband and wife that displays the love God has for His church

I remember that sitcom.

“Oh, Gawdie, I brought you a beer.”
“Aw geez, Churchie, stifle yourself. Can’t a deetie get a little peace and Qs when he comes home from work?”
“Okay Gawdie, I’ll get your dinner.”
“Yeah, yeah. Hey—where’s Meathead?”
“It’s Good Friday, Gawdie. He’s down on Earth, on the cross.”
“Always hangin’ around. I thought I told him to get a job.”
“He has a job, Gawdie, bringing hope to mankind.”
“He’s bringin’ Hope? Well, at least he’s got a girlfriend. I was startin’ ta worry, what with him and all those creepy Epistles.”
“They’re Apostles, Gawdie. An epistle is a kind of letter.”
“Epistle, apostle, a-tisket, a-tasket. Waddaya want from me Churchie? I ain’t no artsy-fartsy type.”
“Oh Gawdie, sure ya are. Remember ‘In the beginning was the Word'”?
“Yeah, an’ I wish it was two: shaddup!”

Yes, poor girls, they will now be consigned to participating in one sex-fueled affair after another until they finally sink into some meaningless, illicit partnership based solely on physical attraction and convenience. They have my deepest sympathy. In conclusion I can only say:Call me!!111one!1!

We could not believe that our federal government would no longer recognize marriage as the union between one man and one woman.

With poorly-written language like that, it’s no wonder that some people seem to think that the government will no longer recognize marriage between one man and one woman.

And as Zeno pointed out above, yes, Katro and Utsman are unhappy because that’s one more thing they can’t lord over a group they look down upon. I used to think privileged people were afraid of being equalized down to the level of the lower castes. But now I see that they also complain when they can stay where they are while the Hated Other is equalized up.

Jesus fucking Christ. Something needs to be done to get it through the skulls of religious bigots that marriage through the state was secular before, is secular now and will always be secular. The only thing that changes with the DOMA ruling is the ability to pretend otherwise.

Scr… Archivist, #10:But now I see that they also complain when they can stay where they are while the Hated Other is equalized up.

That, for me, is what makes all this puzzling. I mean, I can see why someone would like to see black people not vote: that would make it more likely that their preferred candidates would win office. But allowing gays to marry takes absolutely nothing from heterosexual couples’ rights. It’s not as if there’s only so much marriage to go around!

A shorter and more parabolic version of the interns’ lament: “I can’t enjoy my bicycle if the neighbor kid has one, too!”

I’m reminded of a South Park episode where Cartman negotiates his payment for saving the day: He gets a construction toy. Kyle can’t ever be allowed to own this particular model of toy. And finally, Kyle must be forced to watch him play with it.

The value of your wedding vows is entirely the matter of what you think about them in your own head, and it should stay that way.

No, no: it’s true: the existence of gay people means that Christians are no longer married, since marriage is all bastardised or whatever. [Starts collecting heavy rocks.] And we know what God wants done with unmarried fornicators, don’t we?

all this talk of gay marriage diminishing and ruining the sanctity of marriage is gibberish

I’m an atheist, so “sanctity” for me means not “holiness” but “inviolability” ( 3rd def in my dictionary) — and surely marriage equality strengthens marriage in our society, rather than weakening it. I offer my own case as an example. I’m a straight woman, married for 31 years to a man. I had always taken for granted our right to be married to each other. Only when our gay and lesbian friends also wanted to be married did I realize the privilege we had always taken for granted. We live in Connecticut, where the legislature guaranteed marriage equality several years ago. At that moment, when our friends also could marry whom they chose, it made our own marriage seem more precious, more meaningful, and more valued, not less. Marriage equality strengthens the role of marriage in our society (for those who choose it) – it certainly does not diminish it in any way. When the Supreme Court handed down its decisions last week, I wept with joy at this advance, though there is much still to be accomplished.

More and more of these lunatic fringe groups are realizing that we are watching them and are ready to reply and answer their insanity. So they have largely stopped allowing anyone to comment, creating this nice little bubble where no one disagrees.

If they’re all so freaked out that their vows are diminished, they all need to get Covenant marriages. Those Covenant marriages are hardcore. They require pre-marital counseling and limited grounds for divorce. Then they can all feel special and “above the masses” who only get regular marriages, including gay marriage. Let those of us who don’t believe in God not have to worry about “God’s law” when it comes to getting married.

As young, unmarried women, we feel the meaning of our future vows have already been diminished.

Well, as an older two decades-plus married couple, my wife and I feel the meaning of our existing vows is unchanged. I think since we have a combined 44 years of vow-meaning experience to their combined zilch, that our view carries more weight.

What I’d really like to see is a survey of married Christians, to see if they actually think their existing vows’ meaning has diminished, and how they think that’s likely to affect their marriage in the future. Because I’m willing to wager that they’ll all say their vows are still just as meaningful to them, and that queers getting the ring won’t have any effect on their own marriages.