It’s only amazing to those who haven’t read Ted’s stories. For the rest of us, it’s an acknowledgement of the craft that Ted puts into each and every story. There are relatively few of them, and each one shines like a polished gem.

It’s a lot to digest…and a quick run up and down and up again through the list—both novels and short stuff—is just enough to make me say, “Ooh! Maybe I should’ve voted for that one…that one…that one…that one…” But I tried to stick with the ones that had the most impact on me.

One more comment [for now]…your original list was useful, but it also reminded me of works not mentioned. Seeing Frederic Brown’s “What Mad Universe” and “Martians Go Home!” reminded me how much I loved his “The Lights in the Sky are Stars”—which didn’t make my final cut—and if I could dig it out of my disorganized collection I’d give it another read-through.

Very useful for you to do this. Doing it regularly, but not too often, seems to provide some nice balance. I was very interested to see that some Heinlein, Asimov and Clarke hold up 70 years after they were written, and some doesn’t. I didn’t vote, but I find it a very credible list for both centuries.

I did some summing to find the most mentioned authors. Bradbury leads, with 3 novels and 10 ‘shorts’ (non-novels). Heinlein has 3 and 8, Asimov 2 and 8 (although Foundation counted twice). Chiang is behind Bradbury with 9 shorts (he doesn’t write novels). Gaiman is well balanced with 5 and 6. Le Guin is right behind him with 4 and 6. Zelazny is up there with 2 and 7. Ellison and Tiptree appeared in the ‘shorts’ only, with 6 and 5 respectively. Sturgeon and Lovecraft both had 1 and 5. Wolfe was balanced with 3 and 4, although ‘New Sun’ counted twice as SF and F. Clarke’s numbers were lower than the other ‘bigs’ but balanced at 3 and 3. Dick was the only one to have more novels than shorts, 3 and 2. Gibson was the most cited ‘cyberpunk’ with 2 and 2. A bit disappointing: Vance, Silverberg and Delany all had 1 and 3.

A postscript: I wasn’t sure how to count The Juggernaut That is GRRM. George had 4 novels and 3 shorts listed, but all 4 books were in the Song of Ice and Fire series. So should that really count as 4, when LOTR and Foundation Trilogy count as 1? (Not to mention Blackout/All Clear). Either way, Mr. Martin has respectable numbers and a rich bibliography.

James Davis Nicoll [personal insult deleted–KKB], If there was more women and minorities that cared enough to vote in this poll, then there would have been more females and minorities on the list. you cannot blame others for it.(Stats are about numbers, bottom line)

I know he’s not ranting about locus readers as much on this shorter work list as he see’s that most voted the Great Chiang and the Lovable Kelly Link as the Top Dogs of them all.

But he needs to get with Reality and not the one in which he condescendingly pats who he considers less fortunate people on the head while brandishing his Savior Crown of Thorns.

Great stuff. Lots I realised I missed out when voting and lots I’d like to read and re-read. One point that may not have been picked up in the compilation – Arthur C Clarke’s ‘Sunjammer’ and ‘The Wind from the Sun’ are the same story.

Hardly the only mistake—likely by the voter, not the compilers who did a great job putting these lists together. Two votes (one each for Best 20th Century SF Novel and Best 20th Century Fantasy Novel) go to Lord Dunsany’s “A Voyage to Arcturus”—which received many more votes as by its rightfully-credited writer, David Lindsay.

I hope I didn’t make a mistake like that on my submission, though for the ones not on the Big List, I relied on memory for title and writer. I didn’t consult my files. I’m failry confident, but I could’ve been wrong.

Wait, I didn’t comment here AFAICR so why am I being chastised for egregious acknowledging women exist here? Also, I question the apparent assumption behind “If there was more women and minorities that cared enough to vote in this poll, then there would have been more females and minorities on the list,” that one has to be female and/or a member of a minority to vote for works by such persons.

Still, never let it be said I cannot rise to the occasion:

20th Century Novella 12 %
20th Century Novelette 11%
20th Century Short Story 15%
21st Century Novella 24%
21st Century Novelette: 8%
21st Century Short Story 36%

The oddly low % of stories by women in the 21st Century Novelette category is in part because the voters in a helpful display of the sort of problem this sort of poll can have gave five slots to Bacigalupi.

You complained about locus fans on the net, That made your statement fair game, as you yourself found the list and the voters Fair Game for your Nose Thumbing.(That should be simple enough to understand)

Ok some basic facts of life that you yourself agree with but seemingly only when it fits into the box you want to present.

First off we are not retarded children who should shrug off simple truths, We know that people can vote for someone that doesn’t physically represent themselves.(Hello Mr. President) And Life itself has inherently taught us this as the main relationship between humans has been Woman to Man. I’m sure you would agree that it’s good now that men can be biased against wanting the female sex and choose to be with his own kind despite what others think(yeah there’s some irony here and you should really read between the lines)

Another Truth is your the one who jumped to conclusions about the list.
Basically the Evil White Man story again(we all heard this one) two things you should serious think about here. First you try and state that if more women and minorities had voted that it would be foolish to assume that it would coincide with a bias(that to think so was a bias in itself) Ummm I don’t remember in all the percentages that you went thru the trouble to shove down our throats, the one where it shows the sex/race of the voter.(So maybe what you agree with there did in fact happen or does common sense tell you something else)

Hmmm so you jumped to conclusions about who was voting but when called out on it you pretend that it would be bias to jump to conclusions(Look up Hypocrite)

2ndly/Again your post/s assumed that it was a certain kind of sex/race that is the evil doer(of which you are one/just one of the good uns)

If what your trying to say is something we all should know by now, that we are all basically the same.
Then how do you get off by saying that one group is inherently worse then another and you need to come riding in on your white horse to protect the weak and poor off(Again look up Hypocrite)

Life is Diverse, not simple and it’s complications can lead to some who feel out of place and not fitting in. Some choose to try and stand out from a crowd that looks just like them. Some do so in Brave productive ways and some do so by pointing the finger at all those around him/her in order to make themselves seem more important.

It’s kinda a PsychoBugFuk Identity Crises.

I’m not saying there is no validity to your point. everyone with half a brain has at their base a half truth to debate. And I agree with half of your truth. It’s incorporated into what I believe. But people being hypocritical can only drive the eternal stake further into the Heart of Darkness.

And Yes there are Millions of more words that can be said but if your open minded then you will look at the other half of the truth that I presented.

Maddog–I think the oddness James references comes from the fact that his comment appeared on the Tor.com blog, not here. Usually you would respond to it in the same thread in which it appeared. Appearing here, it lacks context and confused many readers (some of whom contacted me about it, worried that we had deleted a comment by James that you must have been responding to).

That said, this is another iteration of a debate that has played out many times over the past few years. I very much doubt that either of you will change the others mind. Can we just take it as read that you have each made your point, read what the other person has to say, and can now walk away to take up other issues?

i.e., If you feel the need to have this flamewar on my blog, that’s fine, but I’d really prefer that you didn’t.

Your right, But I am censored off the Tor sight for sprouting the same “IF we are all the same then quite pointing out the differences” Rhetoric that I mouthed here.

Because I think it’s our only hope at real freedom that we do stop pointing fingers when the finger could just as easily be pointed back at ourselves,(or at least do it in that context) that I respond so passionately.

In this case I could not put it in the response context it deserved as some anti-censorship people actually believe in it. (and I actually agree with deleting hate speeches) but Open Honest Debate is the issue here.

But I will respect your wishes and leave it alone.

P.S. Of course I don’t agree with the list a 100% nor even 50%
But I do think its Fantastic.

I must make a confession here. I did not bother with any of the 21st Century categories. I voted only for the 20th Century novels and stories, after I spent almost the whole month checking all my items with ISFDB, Wikipedia and other places.

Also I admit that, except for one item each by Ursula LeGuin and Shirley Jackson, I voted exclusively for male Caucasian writers. I am a middle-aged white man and I chose and voted for the works that seem the most important to me in retrospect rather than the ones I enjoyed the most at the times I had read them. I now wish I had voted for more works by female writers and those of other colors, ethnicities and nationalities. I am not bigoted or chauvanistic, I have not been since I first learned what those words meant. I have lived in environments that must have been bigoted and chauvanistic, where diversity was not encouraged.

I am willing to criticize myself for presently being a little less well-read and a little more ignorant than I know. I had hoped the other voters would take care of the diversity, but I now see that I have voids to fill and areas to explore.

Maddog–I think the oddness James references comes from the fact that his comment appeared on the Tor.com blog, not here.

(This is a clarification) While on Tor I said

I don’t know which impresses me more; the fact that Locus readers seem to have successfully stuck fairly close to the Dean of Yale’s guidelines for incoming undergrads in the 1930s (“Never admit more than five Jews, take only two Italian Catholics, and take no blacks at all.”) or that the gender balance is so one-sided.

but here on the Locus site I said about the selection of novels:

[stats trimmed]

I am in awe, Locus readers.

I don’t recall providing an explanation for why the poll came out as it did: I can see how to assess results with the resources I have but I have yet to master a method for remotely determining the unspoken internal states of other people’s minds using only the internet and a PC (and/or Playbook*). I also do not remember running numbers on Locus voters so I have no idea where don’t remember in all the percentages that you went thru the trouble to shove down our throats, the one where it shows the sex/race of the voter. is coming from. Is that information on the voters even available? Perhaps the OP has confused me with someone else.

* Although I have to admit I did not check App World for “telepathy”. Given what Print to Go turns out to do, I’d just be disappointed even if there was e.g. a Telepathy 2.0 app. Yeah, I do see some hits for telepathy on App World but they’re just books, not a proper mind reading function for my Playbook. I’d even settle for a micro-expression analyzer but RIM doesn’t seem to offer that, either.

I’m the one that should be in Awe, You still refuse to grasp what I and You for that matter have been stating.

Yes I know you do not have a method for reading a persons Mind, My whole rebuke was just That!!!

And me stating you don’t know who and what Sex/Race voted on the poll was Again, My Point Exactly.(in other words since you may not know. Maybe every single one who voted was on the Dean of Yales short list(as you call it) You don’t know and therefore shouldn’t judge those you don’t know.

Now I tried common sense but your not going to have a open honest debate about this(this I can tell you I telepathically equated) So when you keep looking up how to read peoples minds and want your Palm or your thoughts read(just look me up) Ill do it on the cheap.

I’ve been listening my way through the SF anthology radio shows of yore and I happened to encounter Mindwebs’ production of “When It Changed” and SciFi Radio’s production of “Houston, Houston, Do You Read?” in that order. Was the Tiptree intended as a reply to the Russ or can it just be read that way?

Aaron–you’re right, but I’m afraid that I don’t have time to do all the Googling necessary. If anyone want to post links here or send them to me in an email [karen.burnham (at) gmail.com], I’ll happily update the list above.

James — not sure about the lack of dates on some entries, that’s one for Mark. But according to the SF Encyclopedia, “When it Changed” appeared in 1972’s Again, Dangerous Visions, and “Houston, Houston Do you Read?” appeared in 1976’s Aurora: Beyond Equality anthology. So Tiptree may indeed have read the Russ story before writing. (I can’t swear those are the original publication dates, though…)

A recent John Varley (one of my all-time faves) email pointed me to this Locus survey. I guess I’ve been out of it for a while- I’ve read almost all of the 20th century list, barely any of the 21st. Amazed at the high regard Ted Chiang is held in…I never heard of him! That is now remedied, and I am waiting for “Stories Of Your Life And Others” to arrive from Amazon to see what I’ve missed.
Looks like Paolo Bacigalupi will have to be looked into, also. Thanks for getting me off my duff and rekindling my interest!

Sean – for Bacigalupi, pick up a copy of his collection, “Pump Six and Other Stories” to get a sample of his award-winning short fiction. If you want to dive into a novel get “The Windup Girl”.

One of my favorite photos is me with Ted Chiang and Paolo Bacigalupi at the Locus Awards a few years back. They were my two favorite short fiction authors at the time and I was thrilled to meet them and get my photo with them.

So detached am I from contemporary 21st Century SF and Fantasy that, to my knowledge, I’ve never read anything by Ted Chiang. That’s why I confined my voting to the 20th Century categories. Perhaps Ted Chiang is worth a looksee, but I already have so many unread books lying around demanding that I read them…

@Robert Nowall: Ted Chiang writes some of the best SF around. The good news/bad news is that he hasn’t written much. Since 1990 he’s had 13 stories published. Six of them have been Hugo and/or Nebula winners. Some details here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Chiang

Intriguing, imaginative, well worth a looksee, and I wish I could come up with dazzling concepts like that…but, alas, reminded me overmuch of the things I didn’t like in some SF, say, several much-praised and award-winning works by John Varley. I will check out more by Chiang, though, perrhaps see if I can dig up a copy of “Story of Your Life.”

It’s interesting that some works which did very well upon release did not do very well in the all-time polls. I’ll just mention the four most highly awarded (at the time).

Schrödinger’s Kitten by George Alec Effinger (1988) won the Hugo, Nebula, Sturgeon and Science Fiction Chronicle Readers and was short-listed for the Locus. Yet it only managed 87th in the all-time poll.

The Night We Buried Road Dog by Jack Cady (1993) won the Stoker, Nebula and Science Fiction Chronicle Readers and was short-listed for the Hugo, Locus and World Fantasy. It came 147th in the all-time poll. I have never managed to find a copy of this story. Now I’m even more curious to read it to see why it hasn’t aged well.

Rachel in Love by Pat Murphy (1987) won the Locus, Nebula and Sturgeon and was short-listed for the Hugo and Science Fiction Chronicle Readers. It came 61st in the all-time poll.

…Where Angels Fear to Tread by Allen Steele (1997) won the Hugo, Locus and Science Fiction Chronicle Readers and was short-listed for the Nebula and Sturgeon. It didn’t get a single vote in the all-time poll. I have never managed to find a copy of this story, so ditto as per my comment about Cady’s story above.

Mark Short – Use the Internet Speculative Fiction Database (www.isfdb.org) to look up the publishing history of any story. For stories that aren’t online, you can find magazines or collections that carried them. For instance, “Road Dog” appeared in the 11th edition of the Dozois “Best SF of the Year” collection (1994), and “Nebula Awards 29” (1995). Your friendly local public library probably carries at least one of these collections. If not, “The Night We Buried Road Dog” was the title of a Cady collection that you can get on Amazon or Abe Books for a few dollars.

They left the ball in the readers’ court with short fiction. There’s a link to the short fiction poll results and comment thread, look at the top of the left sidebar. Anyone recommend another forum to discuss the poll and noteworthy stories of the centuries?

I’m tempet to ask for a do-over of the poll, with a six-month advance notice for preparation time and a three-month window for voting. I think we had not enough voters or time to give anything more than a constrained retrospect. The poll results may go into textbooks and Wikipedia for posterity, and this is one of the first thoughts that occurred to me while preparing my vote.

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