I have to agree with John on that one, even though you see mid 70's Strats going for silly money now.
The Ibanez thing happened as they had stupidly awesomely playable necks and were made pretty damn well for the time compared to everything else. They never were exactly tone machines (honestly - even the huge Ibanez endorsees generally had weaselly tones despite godlike skills) but you can always block off the trem and probably get a really stable great playing guitar there.

I'm not offended nor care if you prefer a hard tail. Variety makes the world go 'round. I have 4 Floyd guitars and 3 are flatmounted so they're like hardtails. I'm aware of the issues of a floating bridge but they're far from what you're making them out to be. I've been building guitars for almost 30 years so I don't think there's a big deal with them. I just thought you were blowing it out of proportion, but we're cool.

I may exploit this reunion of floating tremolos haters and not to ask your thoughts on the wilkinson VS100 set to float.

It is not the greatest, but it does the job just fine for me. The worst issue I have is getting the non-wound strings balls out, when changing strings. A wood skewer will push them out when that happens.

I have a VS100 on one of my guitars and find it's a pretty nice bridge. Really smooth operation and feel. The saddles lock down so it's really solid. The arm tension can be adjusted so there's no wobble. I like that the height can be adjusted by the 2 bolts on the main plate like a FR but also the individual saddles have height adjustment, too. One bridge I've always wanted to try but haven't is the Hipshot trem.

Who's overreacting? I simply stated that Floyds are a PITA. Does that somehow offend you?

I still contend that the "quirks" of a floyd are way too problematic for the average player. I work on guitars every day. It's my job. And I see the frustration people have with these things when they make an uninformed purchase and wind up with a locking tremolo without fully knowing what they're getting into. Many people have limited mechanical aptitude. With floyds, some people get it, and some people don't. For most, it's simply not worth the hassle.

I agree with that - once a proper setup is done, it's not so bad. I didn't mean to impune anyone's opinion. Floyd have their uses. Many players have adapted to their quirks and make amazing music with them. But to flippantly contend that it's easy and anyone can do it is simply not true.

The last thing I am is offended by any of this, Since I've been using these guitars amongst lots of fixed bridge instruments I know that it's just not a big deal. You said how you thought it was funny that floyd users were "rallying" to refute your claim, really I just find it an exaggeration. You are the person who want's to kick Floyd Rose in the nuts, a little dramatic no? If the trem is too floppy just tighten up the tension on the springs. You're right many people have limited mechanical aptitude, but again these are not that hard to figure out, and if you don't like it and can't get a competent guitar tech it set up to work for you, get rid of it.

It is not the greatest, but it does the job just fine for me. The worst issue I have is getting the non-wound strings balls out, when changing strings. A wood skewer will push them out when that happens.

Jim

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkknight91

I have a VS100 on one of my guitars and find it's a pretty nice bridge. Really smooth operation and feel. The saddles lock down so it's really solid. The arm tension can be adjusted so there's no wobble. I like that the height can be adjusted by the 2 bolts on the main plate like a FR but also the individual saddles have height adjustment, too. One bridge I've always wanted to try but haven't is the Hipshot trem.

Thank you both. So is it any more practical than a Floyd Rose? (original or not)

So THAT was the intention behind the 3-bolt Fender neck. You described the problems that thing used to have to a T - luckily for me the neck was straight. I sold the guitar years ago, thinking that I had finally gotten rid of a dud. It blows my mind how much the damn things are going for since I parted with it - ahh the allure of "vintage" Fenders.

That's a "vintage" Fender in the same sense that vinegar is "vintage" wine.

Most people who run around "collecting" anything old are idiots. They're paying top dollar for stuff you couldn't have paid me to take away back in my days buying and selling at flea markets.

It's funny that the Floyd users are all rallying to refute the premise that Floyd Rose bridges are difficult and problematic.

And it's pretty much the same bunch of guys who always rally together and gang up on anyone who dares to criticize their pet techno-toys.

It gets tiresome.

As I've said before I hate Floyd-style floating vibrato systems with their PITA locking nuts and recurrent setup problems - that really don't do anything I can't set up a stock Strat bar to do with some very minor modifications.

I'm gonna leave it at that - I've already stated my case enough times in other threads.

Thank you both. So is it any more practical than a Floyd Rose? (original or not)

Apples and oranges. One is a locking tremolo and the other is not. You can use a Wilkinson with locking tuners and properly cut nut and it will be pretty stable. Doing Van Halen and Vai dive bombs will eventually knock it out of tune, I don't care what anyone says. Van Halen is the best I've ever heard at keeping a non-locking trem in tune and even he said it would still go out on him. For moderate use, it would be fine.

Yes - Way more practical. With locking tuners and a roller nut (or a properly cut graphite nut) a guitar equipped with the VS100 or the Fender American Standard bridge will stay in tune every bit as well as a Floyd, without the frustration associated with the locking parts.

If you want to sound like Eddie, Vai, or Satriani, you need a Floyd. For everyone else, Floyds became obsolete the moment locking tuners and roller nuts were invented.

3) if you have ever taught a guitar lesson (this should make at least one person laugh.... or cry).... There is always that damn kid who brings in a song tuned below standard pitch. It would (if your dumb enough to mess with it) take a whole lesson to get your guitar happy at the new tuning.

4) I always hated players who used the "dive bomb" tastelessly (lukether etc do something great with the bar). It always seemed like the "I can't think of anything else musical so let's whammy bar and start my noodling all over again.

About the Wilkenson, I had one on a Carvin, it was great. Played perfect, tuned great (though I don't "dive bomb".... Or at least I haven't since I was 12.

The last thing I am is offended by any of this, Since I've been using these guitars amongst lots of fixed bridge instruments I know that it's just not a big deal. You said how you thought it was funny that floyd users were "rallying" to refute your claim, really I just find it an exaggeration.

Maybe I was exaggerating a bit to prove my point - which is that Floyds are unnecessarily complicated and problematic (ask anyone else who works on guitars for a living and they'll say the same thing), and for that reason, they are not practical for most players. I think we can at least agree that Floyds aren't for everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musiclab

If the trem is too floppy just tighten up the tension on the springs.

If you tighten the springs, it just pulls the bridge down so that it's not floating anymore. It's much more stable that way, but you can no longer pull up on the bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musiclab

You are the person who want's to kick Floyd Rose in the nuts, a little dramatic no?

Yes - A little dramatic. I was making a joke. If I ever do meet Mr. Rose in person, I'll probably just shake his hand and say "nice to meet you".

If you analyze this thread, you'll see that I'm not crazy about floyds. However, you must have never played a Floyd that's properly set up. You can set these things up to play great.

I've complained about the locking mechanisms and what a PITA the thing is, but I'll freely admit that it does what it's meant to do - which is stay in tune even with the most radical tremolo use. When set up properly, you can't make these things go out of tune.

Maybe I was exaggerating a bit to prove my point - which is that Floyds are unnecessarily complicated and problematic (ask anyone else who works on guitars for a living and they'll say the same thing), and for that reason, they are not practical for most players. I think we can at least agree that Floyds aren't for everyone.

If you tighten the springs, it just pulls the bridge down so that it's not floating anymore. It's much more stable that way, but you can no longer pull up on the bar.

1. Obviously you feel they're unnecessarily complicated and problematic, I've quite a few friends who are great luthiers, they've never complained to me about the floyd on my guitar. I'm not dissing you or your abilities as a guitar tech, I get it, you don't like them, frankly I don't love them, they just happen to be on a guitar I like. More often than not I don't use it, I rarely lock the nut down, I just think they're not a big deal, if you want to be a whammy bar mad man, they you have to adjust them accordingly, and accept the downside, if it's not that critical to you and you own one of these guitars just tighten the springs, on my guitars with a floyd I have just a little play pulling back, because that's just something I need much of, if at all. If the reason the OP hates his guitar is because the bridge is too floppy, he should tighten it down first, get his guitar set up right, and see if he still hates it. He might not, you can adjust them so that they are pretty stable.

Yes - Way more practical. With locking tuners and a roller nut (or a properly cut graphite nut) a guitar equipped with the VS100 or the Fender American Standard bridge will stay in tune every bit as well as a Floyd, without the frustration associated with the locking parts.

If you want to sound like Eddie, Vai, or Satriani, you need a Floyd. For everyone else, Floyds became obsolete the moment locking tuners and roller nuts were invented.

BS. I'll knock a Wilkinson with roller nut and locking tuners out of tune in no time. It's better than a standard Fender but won't withstand heavy use. There's things I don't like about FR types but they are the only system that will not go out of tune once properly setup and strings are stretched. You don't like FR's. We get it. Your hyperbole is fatiguing.

Sperzels have been around since 1983. Funny, I don't rcall FR going obsolete in the 80's. Quite the opposite. Just because you don't know how to set one up or play one, doesn't mean they suck. Maybe you should look in the mirror first.

Jeez. Sorry Darknight - from now on I won't state any opinions that contradict yours. Sorry about that.

Why don't you pick on Vintagelove - He really hates floyds.

Thanks Musiclab for choosing to have a rational discussion rather than lashing out and attacking me personally simply because we have a difference in opinion. That shows a maturity on your part that certain other forum members seem to lack.

Sorry, HV. What did I say to hurt your feelings? I have no problems with opinions. I'm just trying to set the record straight on the loudest one here throwing a public tantrum about his issues with a FR. You want me to pick on Vintagelove? Lol. Geesh, dude. Before you start addressing anyone's maturity levels, you might want to re-read some of the nonsense you've posted.

Thanks Musiclab for choosing to have a rational discussion rather than lashing out and attacking me personally simply because we have a difference in opinion. That shows a maturity on your part that certain other forum members seem to lack.

Aaah it's only because I'm old. Seriously though this was NEVER an attack merely a difference of opinion.

Sorry, HV. What did I say to hurt your feelings? I have no problems with opinions. I'm just trying to set the record straight on the loudest one here throwing a public tantrum about his issues with a FR. You want me to pick on Vintagelove? Lol. Geesh, dude. Before you start addressing anyone's maturity levels, you might want to re-read some of the nonsense you've posted.

Excuse me? Set the record straight?

You mean enforce your opinion.

Please stop this.

Floyds have serious problems, as any unbiased guitar tech knows.

Whether you choose to live with them is up to you.l Please don't inflict your opinions on those of us who know otherwise.

Whatever floats YOUR boat is great for YOU - that doesn't mean it's good for the rest of the world.

As I've said innumerable times, there is nothing a Floyd does that I can't do with a slightly modified stock Strat vibrato.

Even with those mods it still requires proper attention when changing strings for the bar to work properly - just like a Floyd/Kramer/whatever.

It's not rocket science, it's just basic ( REALLY basic) mechanics.

And I'd like to state that I'm not attacking anyone. I'm just making a statement about the pure mechanics of the issue.

1. Obviously you feel they're unnecessarily complicated and problematic, I've quite a few friends who are great luthiers, they've never complained to me about the floyd on my guitar. I'm not dissing you or your abilities as a guitar tech, I get it, you don't like them, frankly I don't love them, they just happen to be on a guitar I like. More often than not I don't use it, I rarely lock the nut down, I just think they're not a big deal, if you want to be a whammy bar mad man, they you have to adjust them accordingly, and accept the downside, if it's not that critical to you and you own one of these guitars just tighten the springs, on my guitars with a floyd I have just a little play pulling back, because that's just something I need much of, if at all. If the reason the OP hates his guitar is because the bridge is too floppy, he should tighten it down first, get his guitar set up right, and see if he still hates it. He might not, you can adjust them so that they are pretty stable.

Exactly my view as well. I've owned guitars with Floyds and my concern was they just didn't feel right to me. Maybe they feel great to others, which is understandable. So...not bad. Just not what I like. And they can be adjusted to some extent. And they tend to find a home with wammy bar extremists.

Just because you don't know how to set one up or play one, doesn't mean they suck. Maybe you should look in the mirror first.

That's quite an insult to a professional luthier. I stated multiple times that I've been doing this for decades, and I have no problems setting up a Floyd, but I've had many customers over the years who couldn't get a handle on how the thing works. I also listed some of the Floyd's quirks specifically, and stated that I'd never want to use one myself.

You responded by basically saying that I'm too stupid to use a Floyd. That's not very nice.

Another thing - When responding to someone's post, don't start yours with "BS..." That's just rude and inflammatory. There are more diplomatic ways of presenting your case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkknight91

I'm just trying to set the record straight on the loudest one here throwing a public tantrum about his issues with a FR

Tantrum? Jesus Christ dude. I've reviewed my posts here, and there's nothing here like that. The only reason I went on was because you so flippantly claimed that Floyds are easy and that I just don't know what I'm doing - I was responding to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkknight91

You want me to pick on Vintagelove? Lol. Geesh, dude. Before you start addressing anyone's maturity levels, you might want to re-read some of the nonsense you've posted.