e0y2e3 wrote:Where in the quote you replied to did I call him cheap AJ?

Can we just agree we have no fucking idea what is going to happen when he looks at absurd tax bills without desperately trying to keep LBJ from leaving? I mean really? This isn't a fair point?

I agree that we don't really know what will happen with the new luxury tax rules, but I would say with about 90% certainty that a team in the Cavs market couldn't afford to pay max guys like Durant and Westbrook, Ibaka ~$10 mill, then make Harden a near max player. It just won't happen and it won't be owner related but market related. The tax will be too costly.

The Lakers, Knicks, Nets, and whomever has LBJ could be willing too, but even then it is a stretch.

This is dumb anyway. To get back on the draft, I could really see us taking Len. I prefer Noel, but Len is my number two guy on the board so it isn't the end of the world I guess.

ajunior148 wrote:It just won't happen and it won't be owner related but market related. The tax will be too costly.

Fine, then people (Yahoo) need to stop writing like Dan Gilbert is some untamed cowboy that is willing to light money on fire to win at basketball. Dan Gilbert is a business man that owns this team to make money and have some fun. He used LBJ as a key component in basically doubling his net worth via Casino and franchise value and he'll spend in the future if he can make money from it. He isn't any different than any other owner and acting so is foolish.

That's my only point. After two lockouts in the NFL and NBA one would think people would finally understand that owners are basically in this to make money, nothing else.

e0y2e3 wrote:He isn't any different than any other owner and acting so is foolish

This is where we disagree, I guess. I don't think Gilbert would spend himself into bankruptcy, but he is willing to take risks with his money that other owners would not. See the Baron Davis trade for that.

e0y2e3 wrote:He isn't any different than any other owner and acting so is foolish

This is where we disagree, I guess. I don't think Gilbert would spend himself into bankruptcy, but he is willing to take risks with his money that other owners would not. See the Baron Davis trade for that.

And nothing on Len??

You work in accounting IIRC, when reinvesting some money in a company that is well below budget has potential to increase future profitability becomes an option, you do it. Dan Gilbert made a bidness decision because his books were cleared (actually Ferry set that up, not Grant, my bad).

He invested, yes, but 95% of owners in the NBA invest when they are below budget, see the 5,000,000 bad contracts given out and the 5,000,000 shitty trades made in the last decade.

As for Len and Noel, meh.

I can't see the Dr's reports. One has a bad foot, the other a bad knee. I hope they pick the healthier of the two.

I prefer Noel, but yeah, that Dr. report thing. Both are coming/have been in town during the days leading up to the draft, here's to the right MRI winning!

Eye, you have conducted numerous online castrations on guys who changed their stances like this.Throw in the castrations you did on guys who suggested Noel wasn't the ONLY guy to draft at #1.Just sayin.

Fri May 17, 2013 8:56 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Fuck Len, soft as motherscratcher.

Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:46 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:There is one thing the Cavs could do to ruin my semblance of faith in them.That thing is drafting Len.We all know DX loves the foreign guys.....But this foreign guy is hurt, struggling to get healthy, etc....Fucking Pluto.

Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:23 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:As for Len and Noel, meh.I can't see the Dr's reports. One has a bad foot, the other a bad knee. I hope they pick the healthier of the two.I prefer Noel, but yeah, that Dr. report thing. Both are coming/have been in town during the days leading up to the draft, here's to the right MRI winning!

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

"Well, I guess if guys like Ted Stepien were the owner and Paxson was the GM I would agree with you. Like him or hate him Dapper Dan Gilbert has shown that he will spend money."

Please give me at least a little bit of credit with regards to not being a complete idiot. Never did I say, nor do I expect, Gilbert to spend like a drunken sailor or to make large losses due to overspending.

You can say that he only spent to try and keep Lebron and that he only spent to get some extra ping pong balls but to me that shows he will spend when it makes sense. Also, his life is not funded by this team so he is in a different place then some of our previous Cleveland owners.

In most cases the Cleveland teams lost our stars due to financial constraints and/or crappy teams. Lebron was the biggest exception.

OldDawg wrote:Eye, you have conducted numerous online castrations on guys who changed their stances like this.Throw in the castrations you did on guys who suggested Noel wasn't the ONLY guy to draft at #1.Just sayin.

Fri May 17, 2013 8:56 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Fuck Len, soft as motherscratcher.

Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:46 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:There is one thing the Cavs could do to ruin my semblance of faith in them.That thing is drafting Len.We all know DX loves the foreign guys.....But this foreign guy is hurt, struggling to get healthy, etc....Fucking Pluto.

Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:23 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:As for Len and Noel, meh.I can't see the Dr's reports. One has a bad foot, the other a bad knee. I hope they pick the healthier of the two.I prefer Noel, but yeah, that Dr. report thing. Both are coming/have been in town during the days leading up to the draft, here's to the right MRI winning!

Not that he needs it, but lost in the occasional snotty bombast Lee is consistent. On Noel, we don't know what teams are privvy to with the docs' reports on Nerlins' health. So that can change teh landscape.

My personal biggest issue here is the TT scenario repeating itself. Grant will eschew value for dogmatic philosophy and draft board rankings. The TT over Leonard pick is ripe to repeat itelf. What do I mean?

If there are questions about Len's mobility to D up around rim in the Association, he's toxic in the lotto AFAIC. IDC how good of a little drop step of whatever the hell bunnies he can manufacture or even stop and pop off the P & R. maybe I should on the latter with Kyrie. But AFAIC the 5 id now a D postion. The smart move for long-term value hedging bets is probably now Porter and Deng or a similar 5 defender down draft.

Regardless, the more chatter about the unpredictability of Noel and/or Len in the league, makes me want to draft Porter at #1, then package #19 and change and move up to grab the best 5-man we can. If this draft appears deep anywhere, it is in the post. Everything I have read about Porter has him a lock at being a starting and productive 3-man in the league. Heck, we would have been ecstatic about drafting Porter if we had the 3rd pick. I just dont want a bust at #1.

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

Eye, I really respect your knowledge of NBA basketball. And you are certainly known for your strong stances and your taking to task when posters change their tune. You know, I don't really care that you changed your stance. I really don't. The only reason I brought it up is that is ironic because you always call others out on things like this. I kinda think its a little comical. However, I am sorry, but your stance on Len going from

e0y2e3 wrote:Fuck Len, soft as motherscratcher. There is one thing the Cavs could do to ruin my semblance of faith in them. That thing is drafting Len.

to

e0y2e3 wrote:As for Len and Noel, meh.,, here's to the right MRI winning!

is clearly quite a drastic change. Both guys were injured when you made you initial comments as well.

Wow. Its no biggie to me. But that's a change of stance. Going from no way they should draft Len to its a toss-up on MRIs is a change. But you're inability to admit that this is a change is your failure. Your calling it my failure is your greater failure.

Again, I don't really care. It is what it is.

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

I really don't know how to explain that there is one layer worth the #1 pick in my mind and that said player may be too unhealthy to draft.

Literally nothing has changed about my feeling re: Len, Porter, Ben or anything beyond THE ONLY FUCKING PLAYER WORTH DRAFTING AT ONE MAY BE TOO FUCKING HURT TO DRAFT.

If you are too stupid to grasp just how different the draft becomes if THE ONLY PLAYER WORTH DRAFTING AT ONE IS TOO HURT TO DRAFT then you're pretty fucking stupid, something I never though before.

I don't like Len, I really don't, but I can't hate on a franchise for drafting a 7 footer that is very flawed over a SF with limited upside IF THE ONLY FUCKING PLAYER WORTH DRAFTING AT ONE IS TOO HURT TO DRAFT.

When I made those comments EVERYONE was under the assumption Noel was fine and that there was nothing going on but a hurt ACL. The rumors of chronic knee problems, well, THOSE ARE A PRETTY FUCKING NEW THING AND COMPLETELY CHANGE THE ENTIRE DRAFT.

Again, this draft blows. If Noel is hurt (as in chronic knee problems, not just a fucking tore ACL) it becomes historically bad. I didn't write 2000 fucking words on Noel in this thread for shits and giggles, I never figured that this ACL situation would and could become far, far more.

That isn't flip-flopping on shit. Now if you go find the quote where I said I like Len as a player, maybe then you'd be on to something. But you won't find me saying I like Len, anywhere.

Would it be that awful to take Oladipo? This draft sucks, the cache of having the #1 pick doesn't mean anything, and both big guys have huge question marks. Gun to my head, the guy I'm most sure of being a really solid NBA player is Oladipo.

"Well then I guess there's only one thing left to do...win the whole, f***in', thing."- Jake Taylor

e0y2e3 wrote:If you are too stupid to grasp just how different the draft becomes if THE ONLY PLAYER WORTH DRAFTING AT ONE IS TOO HURT TO DRAFT then you're pretty fucking stupid, something I never though before.

With all due respect, you are waffling about your waffling. You are now claiming you said, "There is one thing the Cavs could do to ruin my semblance of faith in them. That thing is not drafting Noel." But that isn't what said. You also didn't say, "There is one thing the Cavs could do to ruin my semblance of faith in them. That thing is drafting Porter, McLemore, Bennett, Oladipo." You did say, "There is one thing the Cavs could do to ruin my semblance of faith in them. That thing is drafting Len." Len. No one else. Len. Now, it appears Len is #2 on your draft board. It's pretty clear to me. Now, if you want to say that's not what you meant to say, fine. But that is not what you said.

Again, I respect your knowledge of the NBA. But as typical, when someone opposes you, you just raise your voice, scream louder, throw in some expletives, and call people names or stupid.

Whatever. That's cool.

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

e0y2e3 wrote:Portland isn't dumb enough to trade LA for two ones, but if they were that would salvage this clusterfuck of a draft.

The rumor comes from Stein and Ford, which puts it in more credible territory than Western Conference GM. You're right, though, Portland didn't bite.

The only player out there I would like more is probably Horford and maybe Love.

WWDFD: Take the next three years and try to build around Horford with middling draft picks and whatever Larry Hughes you can overspend on, or blow it all up now and start tanking for Wiggins on Thursday?

"The fucking Who...... If I want to watch old people run around ill go set fire to a nursing home." - CDT

Len sucks, Porter has a limited ceiling, Bennet is undersized and can't play D and everyone else plays SG.

I'm not waffling about shit, if the reports that Noel are hurt are true I don't give a fuck who they draft because every single one of them pretty much blows. If they want to role the dice on a 7 footer that didn't do shit in college I get it because they are trapped between a rock and a hard place.

This draft blows and if Noel isn't healthy there is a gun to their head that is going to force them to do stupid shit. I'm not going to lose sleep about it.

You really aren't this dumb.

Sure, I personally like Len worse than those other guys but I also get just how FUCKED this team is with Noel hurt. If his knees aren't good to go this is literally the worst situation a team having the #1 pick has been in since the Clippers ended up w/ The Candy Man. The entire situation fucking blows and I and sure as fuck not going to melt down if they pick what is the worst of the five other shitty options in my opinion, because frankly when choosing being impaled on a wooden stake or a baseball bat neither option is really all that great.

Again, stop being so fucking stupid. I don't like Len, when you find a quote from me saying that I like Len then you can play this retarded game you are playing. Until then deal with the fact that every option blows so I'm not going to get worked up at this point over them picking the worst option to me out of what else is left.

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Meanwhile, I'll try not to play the 'annoy e0y' game.

e0y2e3 wrote:Portland isn't dumb enough to trade LA for two ones, but if they were that would salvage this clusterfuck of a draft.

The rumor comes from Stein and Ford, which puts it in more credible territory than Western Conference GM. You're right, though, Portland didn't bite.

The only player out there I would like more is probably Horford and maybe Love.

WWDFD: Take the next three years and try to build around Horford with middling draft picks and whatever Larry Hughes you can overspend on, or blow it all up now and start tanking for Wiggins on Thursday?

Thing is, Horford and Lou Will are the only players Ferry has under contract. He has flexibility to tank w/out trading him, try to get Dwight to come home, etc, etc. Especially since Horford is signed for WAY below market value (which is why I probably take him over Love).

And I really can't type any clearer that THIS ENTIRE DRAFT FALLS APART IF NOEL'S KNEE IS DESTROYED.

When I made those comments about Len Noel was on the board as a far better 7 foot tall center option. His knees were hopefully going to check out fine and they'd take the center that, you know, produced instead of the prayer on the Ukranian. EVERYTHING changes if Noel's knees are destroyed, every single fucking thing about this draft. To draft Len over a going to get healthy Noel would have been, in my mind, the dumbest draft decision in the history of decisions. With Noel off the board (if he is) that decision becomes far, far muddier. Picking Len straight up over Noel would have been the single stupidest move they could have made. Now they are looking at rolling the dice on Len maybe if Noel can't play and that isn't worth getting worked up over.

Try and use your brain.

There is reason I haven't even commented on this draft since reports started bouncing around about Noel's knees, because if they are shot everything fucking blows.

Noel told Louisville's Courier-Journal on Sunday that the Cavs' lead doctor, Dr. Richard Parker, had medically cleared him. I’ve had that confirmed by several sources. The Cavs have no serious issues with his knee.

e0y2e3 wrote:Thing is, Horford and Lou Will are the only players Ferry has under contract. He has flexibility to tank w/out trading him, try to get Dwight to come home, etc, etc. Especially since Horford is signed for WAY below market value (which is why I probably take him over Love).

Yeah, that's true too.

"The fucking Who...... If I want to watch old people run around ill go set fire to a nursing home." - CDT

Noel told Louisville's Courier-Journal on Sunday that the Cavs' lead doctor, Dr. Richard Parker, had medically cleared him. I’ve had that confirmed by several sources. The Cavs have no serious issues with his knee.

Noel told Louisville's Courier-Journal on Sunday that the Cavs' lead doctor, Dr. Richard Parker, had medically cleared him. I’ve had that confirmed by several sources. The Cavs have no serious issues with his knee.

Do you think this "news" that the Cavs Drs have cleared Noel medically is fact or just them trying to increase the trade value of the #1 pick?

I think the news came from Noel, not the Cavs thus it means nothing to me.

The quote certainly starts that way. But Ford goes on to say "I've had that confirmed by several sources." I am sure those sources are close to the Cavs camp and not the Noel camp. Regardless, I could see Cavs folks leaking a clean bill for other reasons.

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

There's only one candidate who'd be a certain starter for even the lowly Cavs. That would be Porter Jr. (Okay, maybe McLemore.) The others in the running are either injured (Noel, Len) or ranked as lesser talents by the experts (Oladipo, Bennett, Shabazz).

I'd hoped that the Cavs would be in the playoff picture by next spring. But unless they make some mighty impressive personnel moves before September (and they certainly have the salary structure and bankable draft picks to do so), it looks like another season chasing ping-pong balls. Considering the potential talent in next year's draft, that might not be such a bad thing, if we can hold our breaths for another year or two (even though I'm already turning blue).

Again, at this point I've read 5,000 different reports on what Dr's have had to say about Noel's knee. The only person with a direct quote attributable to themselves re: said knee is Noel himself. I have no idea what is true and what isn't anymore and have no way of knowing.

Maybe at the end of the day Thursday we have a "healthy" Noel, Karasev and 1 year of Shawn Marion??

By the way, what is this recent shit about Thommas Robinson? Any idea if there are legs to that rumor or is it just more pre-draft click-through chasing by the internet reporters and analysts? If there is truth to it what do you guys think? How would he fit into our rotation if we already have 4s/5s - TT, Andy, Noel and Zeller? Doesn't seem like we will be getting a lot of offense out of our front court...maybe less important with Brown's emphasis on D.

There's only one candidate who'd be a certain starter for even the lowly Cavs. That would be Porter Jr. (Okay, maybe McLemore.) The others in the running are either injured (Noel, Len) or ranked as lesser talents by the experts (Oladipo, Bennett, Shabazz).

Porter would start. Bennett is a 3 or 4. I think he'd start for us at 3. In a short time he might be able to start at 3 or 4. I also agree that McLemore would likely start as he is more of a true 2-guard and many believe that Dion would be better off the bench anyways. Outside of those 3, tho, I agree that no one in the draft would be a lock to start for us.

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

OverratedIf he goes No. 1 overall … Alex LenIf he goes in the top five … Trey BurkeIf he goes in the lottery … Steven Adams… and Shabazz Muhammad

UnderratedIf he goes below the top five … Anthony BennettIf he falls out of the lottery … Michael Carter-Williams… and Shane LarkinIf he falls below 20 … Gorgui DiengIf they fall out of the first round … Tony Snell and Pierre Jackson

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

e0y2e3 wrote:Thing is, Horford and Lou Will are the only players Ferry has under contract. He has flexibility to tank w/out trading him, try to get Dwight to come home, etc, etc. Especially since Horford is signed for WAY below market value (which is why I probably take him over Love).

Yeah, that's true too.

If there's any GM with a stllar history of managing cap value, it's DF.

e0y2e3 wrote:I still hold that if Noel and Len are healthy and they take Len because of some deranged need to make the playoffs next year my anger will know no bounds.

It's really the only situation that would set me off at this point.

It'd a been nice if Len coulda made at least 3rd team all-ACC before he got drafted overall number one.

If Noel is healthy and they take this f'ing guy, well, that would be the Cavs....

This.

The problem with darfting sam Boeis wasn't Sam Bowie. It was MJ.

I would have to have certifed medical proof from multiple sports medicine leading docs that nerlins is facing amputation to pass on him for this crap.

If I had that, I'd hold my nose and pick Porter or McLemore I suppose. Best of a bad situation to me would be a Mclemore, Sergei, Dieng draft with a trade for Marian. I go out there for that as a) we have zero vets to teach these kids and Brown is HC and Shawn is a solid NBA citizen and b) no one is gonna sign here any way so WTF not?

That said, it'll be len tomorrow.

Last edited by jb on Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Taking Karasev will be a wasted draft pick. The guy is going to immediately become the most unathletic guy on the roster of whatever team drafts him. He won't be able to see the floor to use his shooting ability.

I don't think he ever finds his way into a significant role on a NBA rotation. Just too poor of an athlete.

ajunior148 wrote:Taking Karasev will be a wasted draft pick. The guy is going to immediately become the most unathletic guy on the roster of whatever team drafts him. He won't be able to see the floor to use his shooting ability.

I don't think he ever finds his way into a significant role on a NBA rotation. Just too poor of an athlete.