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Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

Well, you are wrong as you almost always are. That is me. If the Pacers starters outplayed the Miami starters, why couldn't they do it at the end of the games? The reason is they aren't even close to the Heat.... Or Boston, Chicago, Brooklyn and perhaps even the Knicks. I had some nitwit try to tell me we had the best starting five in the entire NBA!! That guy was the joke!!

Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

I didn't embarrass myself. I am right. We have not improved out starters. Those other teams have. We are a little better with the new reserves but Boston added two good players. Miami added two good players, Brooklyn rebuilt their whole team. The Knicks improved. Perhaps Chicago has not but they only need to get their superstar back to be contenders. The Pacers are not contenders.....

Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

Well, you are wrong as you almost always are. That is me. If the Pacers starters outplayed the Miami starters, why couldn't they do it at the end of the games? [b]The reason is they aren't even close to the[b] Heat.... Or Boston, Chicago, Brooklyn and perhaps even the Knicks. I had some nitwit try to tell me we had the best starting five in the entire NBA!! That guy was the joke!!

Odd.... thought we finished ahead of all of those teams. Who did the Celtics add that made them better than us? Knicks should be better with Woodson full time but how are they better? And Nets?????? They added Joe Johnson. Whoa....

I like how you claim I'm usually wrong with no facts to back it up other than you believing your opinion is Gospel.

But as someone else pointed, you don't use facts unless they support your opinion.

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Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

Knicks, Celtics, Heat, and Nets all made significant improvements to their teams. The Pacers didn't. At best our bench is a bit better, but that's it. It's clear now that the most we were ever going to do was re-sign Hibbert and Hill along with some tinkering here and there. I think Bird left because we weren't willing to give him the green light and reach for the stars.

Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

I didn't embarrass myself. I am right. We have not improved out starters. Those other teams have. We are a little better with the new reserves but Boston added two good players. Miami added two good players, Brooklyn rebuilt their whole team. The Knicks improved. Perhaps Chicago has not but they only need to get their superstar back to be contenders. The Pacers are not contenders.....

Adding Joe Johnson is rebuilding your whole team?

Knicks improved??? Only because Woodson took over. Not like they improved their roster. What two good players did Boston add? And if you say Courtney Lee... no. They did get Jeff Green back though.

Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

Knicks improved??? Only because Woodson took over. Not like they improved their roster. What two good players did Boston add? And if you say Courtney Lee... no. They did get Jeff Green back though.

As usual, you do not know what you are talking about. Yes, Boston got Lee but they also got Jason Terry. That makes them younger and better. The Knicks added Raymond Felton and Jason Kidd. That makes them better. ......

Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

Odd.... thought we finished ahead of all of those teams. Who did the Celtics add that made them better than us? Knicks should be better with Woodson full time but how are they better? And Nets?????? They added Joe Johnson. Whoa....

Well, the Celtics were already better than the Pacers last season. As far as their recent moves are concerned, Jason Terry is a better player than Ray Allen and is two years younger. Also, Boston didn't even have Avery Bradley, Jeff Green, and Chris Wilcox for their deep playoff run last year. If those guys stay healthy and if KG and Pierce can maintain the same level of production as last year, then Boston will be an even better team than the one that just made the ECF's.

The Knicks have a much more talented roster than the Pacers. That obviously doesn't mean everything as they still have to prove that they can mesh for an entire season. But they just added Raymond Felton, Jason Kidd, and Marcus Camby. Felton was incredible in NY during the first half of 10-11. Kidd is ancient, but all they need him to do is play backup minutes and be a locker room mentor with his championship experience. He will still have those moments where he makes great plays. Camby played in almost every game last year and still averaged 9 boards. He will be extremely valuable in a playoff series. The Knicks could frustrate Roy quite a bit in a playoff series by throwing Chandler and Camby at him.

Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

Knicks, Celtics, Heat, and Nets all made significant improvements to their teams. The Pacers didn't. At best our bench is a bit better, but that's it. It's clear now that the most we were ever going to do was re-sign Hibbert and Hill. I think Bird left because we weren't willing to give him the green light and reach for the stars.

So I'm pretty "meh".

The Knicks significantly improved their team...how, exactly? By adding a washed up Jason Kidd, a nearly washed up Marcus Camby, and fat Raymond Felton is a downgrade from Jeremy Lin. To me the Knicks are about the same, maybe a little bit worse.

Celtics are better, I agree.

The Heat are the same. Ray Allen is an upgrade, but as long as LeBron is LeBron they are the rulers of the roost.

The Nets are better, but they were horrendous last year so they have quite a bit of ground to make up.

I'm meh on our moves too, but I think the Eastern Conference pecking order goes: 1. Miami 2. Boston/Indiana 3. Everyone else. Of course if the Bulls can tread water long enough and sneak into the playoffs with Derrick Rose at 75% they are sneaky.

Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

The Knicks significantly improved their team...how, exactly? By adding a washed up Jason Kidd, a nearly washed up Marcus Camby, and fat Raymond Felton is a downgrade from Jeremy Lin. To me the Knicks are about the same, maybe a little bit worse.

Celtics are better, I agree.

The Heat are the same. Ray Allen is an upgrade, but as long as LeBron is LeBron they are the rulers of the roost.

The Nets are better, but they were horrendous last year so they have quite a bit of ground to make up.

I'm meh on our moves too, but I think the Eastern Conference pecking order goes: 1. Miami 2. Boston/Indiana 3. Everyone else. Of course if the Bulls can tread water long enough and sneak into the playoffs with Derrick Rose at 75% they are sneaky.

I agree with your overall assessments. The thing I can't get over is how many people are saying the Nets are all of the sudden going to be good. I thought it was pretty universal that Joe Johnson was overpayed and overrated. Suddenly by adding him and keeping the rest of their players (who, like you said, were bad last year) the Nets are now a contender? I am just not sure I follow this logic.

Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

I agree with your overall assessments. The thing I can't get over is how many people are saying the Nets are all of the sudden going to be good. I thought it was pretty universal that Joe Johnson was overpayed and overrated. Suddenly by adding him and keeping the rest of their players (who, like you said, were bad last year) the Nets are now a contender? I am just not sure I follow this logic.

JJ is overpay but he is not overrated, the guy is a pretty good player, him and Dwill together are going to be great for Brooklyn, nobody is going to be able to match with that team.

Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

The Knicks significantly improved their team...how, exactly? By adding a washed up Jason Kidd, a nearly washed up Marcus Camby, and fat Raymond Felton is a downgrade from Jeremy Lin. To me the Knicks are about the same, maybe a little bit worse.

I'm not so sure that Felton is that big of a downgrade from Lin, but we'll just have to wait and see how that one plays out. As far as Kidd is concerned, no one is expecting him to be 2003 Jason Kidd. All you need him to do is play backup minutes and bring in that tough veteran championship pedigree that made him so valuable in Dallas. He has played in three Finals and won one of them, meaning he will command respect in the locker room. He knows how a championship team conducts itself. He can definitely have some moments in the playoffs where he pulls out some vintage Jason Kidd plays that help lead the Knicks to a key victory.

Washed up or not, Camby averaged 9 rebounds while playing almost every game last season. He's been doing that for a while now. Like Kidd, they will just be hoping that he can give them some valuable minutes off of the bench. His presence and defense could be extremely valuable in a playoff series against a guy like Hibbert

Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

I thought the moves made by the Pacers were pretty good. We didn't shoot ourselves in the foot by over paying for some free agent who will be a big disappointment. We have a good core and have improved the bench. I believe that having a full preseason will help us a great deal. I also believe that some people on this board would only be happy if the Pacers win a championship by sweeping all the games in the playoffs. Hope we can have another good season this year.

Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

I'm on the fence. I don't have a strong feeling either way, but I'm leaning towards a thumbs down. The DC giveaway was perplexing. I think the bench improved, but I'm not sure it is a vast improvement.

Either way, the ceiling of this team is directly tied to the development of Paul George. If he becomes a star, we can contend for titles. If he plateaus, we are a middling Eastern Conference team for the foreseeable future.

For now that "He" is Paul George, if he's not it, it'll be someone else in a few years. If we don't home grow a "superstar" we will probably never get one to come here on his own.

If anyone thinks it'll EVER be any different for the Pacers they need to find another team to root for. I've excepted it.

We have to stay competitive, even if some call that "middling". We have to have winning seasons and playoff appearances to put people in the seats. Years in the lottery means the team will not last.... here.

Then we can only hope for a team like Reggie's finals team or hope for a great starting 5 and a good bench aka the Piston's championship. We even had a team that could have beat the Piston's if our players could have stayed sane.

People need to get it through their heads, they'll be no "super" team in Indy.

Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

But they did! Our starters built up leads then the bench lost them, plain and simple.

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Our starters did not win a quarter in the second half of the 4 losses - measured by the almighty + / - stat. They folded when Miami turned up the pressure. You don't win games when your starters suck in pressure situations.

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Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

When you over spend paying Hibbert and Hill almost 22 mil for this season after paying them less than 5 mil combined last season that took up 17 mil of the cap space.

Being able to add Green , Augustin and Mahinmi for a combined 11 mil and trading Collison and Jones' 5.5 mil deal was about the best you could expect for what little cap space remained after over paying Roy and Hill.

Overall the team was improved just wish Hibbert and Hill could have been signed much cheaper.

Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

The team has rehired Donnie Do Nothing Walsh and all but confirmed ownership is onboard with staying out of FA as a way to aggressively take the team to the next level. I'd say this offseason could not have thrown anymore cold water on my hopes for the team and the upcoming season. I've went from anxiously wanting to see what happens next to "meh"....

The Pacers off season has done a great job of getting me to care more about the Colts upcoming season.

Donnie Do Nothing Walsh back? Really? Blah!

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: How do you like our new/old FO so far?

I thought this offseason has been a very good one for the Pacers. I like that we kept our starting five and added young athletic players to our bench. As much as I was concerned about losing DC and Dahntay I was just as pleased with what we got in exchange. We got a young big who is strong and then the signings of Green and Augustin made my day. I think we will be seeing another DJ than he was at his prior team because he will be asked more to run the offense and distribute to our scorers. So what that we didn't get any flashy FA's but I didn't think we were even closely in their list of possible teams. I also hope that Tyler will improve from last year and I think with the floor spacing better he will improve. I can't wait to see our new look bench and see the season begin.