Do you support Stone’s expansion?

Over the weekend, Stone Brewing Company out of Escondido, California, announced they’re finally making their vision of a European brewery a reality via this fancy YouTube video:

Stone is crowd-sourcing a portion of the funding with an IndieGoGo campaign (they’re asking for $1 million of the $25 million estimated cost). That doesn’t surprise me as Stone has always been the kind of brewery the craft beer community supports because this brewery has been ardent supporters of its customers and the industry at large since Day 1.

What does surprise me is that when this expansion was announced, a very vocal minority have responded with rather hostile backlash. Some are outraged that a company as big as Stone would dare ask for a handout instead of paying for it all themselves! Another segment is incensed that Stone would even consider opening a new facility overseas (though an East Coast satellite brewery is also in the works). Their beef is essentially this:

Yes, there are people who are seriously making the argument that they do not support Stone “sending jobs overseas” and that they are a bunch of cheapskates by using crowd sourcing. This was my reaction when I read those comments: The “sending jobs overseas” argument would really only make sense if Stone were closing their brewery in the United States and moving to a new one in Europe. However, that’s obviously not the case. It’s just a matter of a company who’s doing really well wanting to expand their reach even further. But a swarm of both Occupier-types and Good ‘Ol Boys are objecting to this for essentially the same reason. If that’s not irony I don’t know what is.

This is a great teaching moment, from both an philosophical and economics viewpoint. The craft beer community has been told over and over again to support small breweries and shun big breweries. But we’ve finally reached a point where one of those small breweries is now a pretty darn big brewery. Though Stone’s marketshare is miniscule compared to AB-InBev or Diageo or SAB MillerCoors, it’s pretty huge compared to, say, Brown’s Brewing Company.

Is Stone’s expansion into Europe a good sign that craft beer is growing, or have they become another greedy corporation just trying to make more money?

Do you support Stone’s use of crowd-sourcing? If so, will you contribute to the campaign? If not, why do you disagree with it?

How do you think American craft beer, especially of the Stone variety, will be received in Germany and Europe as a whole?

If a European “craft” (non-macro) brewery wanted to open a satellite brewery in America, what would be your reaction?

I think it’s great that they are doing this. It’s growth, lifeline of any business. The fact that they chose Europe is just a way to get an edge in a crowded domestic market, and rather than export the beer and pay duties on the other end, and incur import time lag (never good for beer quality), it makes sense to make it in Europe.

Crowd-sourcing is just another way to raise investment money and makes it easier (often) for the ordinary person to invest in a favored business. Not sure if I would invest, but the idea is very sound.

American craft beer already has received raves in Europe and is influencing local beer styles. This expansion is just a natural follow-on from that earlier development.

If a European craft brewery wanted to do the same thing here, sure why not? The more the better.

Craft beer is, as currently understood, an American term. While it has no exact meaning, most understand it to include pale ales and IPAs (especially, including black and red versions) with pronounced West Coast hop flavours, barrel aged beers, and serving draft beer somewhat cloudy. The term also encompasses today using a wide range of flavors and spices that hadn’t generally been used in brewing except in parts of Belgium. This conception of craft beer is having a huge impact overseas, as mentioned above, and Stone wants to make hay of it. It’s all good.

I’m going to focus on Question 3 by asking a question that Chad and hopefully others can answer – Does Stone make a non-hoppy beer?

With Stone making this move, I’m concerned that Europeans will get the impression that American craft beer is simply overhopped with the worst American hop varieties. Go to their website – they make every known version of “IPA” – and then they went on to create several new versions…

So, does Stone make anything that is malty? Or anything that is only mildly hoppy? Or something hopped with a classy hop, e.g., an English hop? ‘Cause I don’t think ‘Triple Arrogant Bastard’ is going to sell in Europe…

Yes, Stone Imperial Russian Stout. They actually make a bunch of variations on that stout.

I completely disagree that “Triple Arrogant Bastard” won’t sell in Europe. That’s the whole reason to go into that market – because Europeans can’t get those kinds of beers there. What would be the point of going to Europe and trying to sell them what they’ve already got a million of? Think of it the other way – a European brewery comes to America and tries to sell us an IPA. Whoop dee do, we already have a ton of those to chose from from breweries we trust – why take a gamble on a foreigner’s interpretation? In fact, we already have a real-life example of this in the form of BrewDog. They make American-style beers and do quite well in the UK. In the American market they’re mostly scoffed at and passed over because they’re imitations and don’t taste nearly as good as the real thing. Plus it’s old by the time it gets here. Who wants to pay a premium for out-of-code wannabe American IPA when there’s a real, fresh American IPA one aisle over?

I was just in Belgium last month and met up with a friend who lives in Germany. Almost every bar we went to was more excited about a local IPA, brewed in an American style, that they were able to get rather than the world class sours available to them every day. European beer styles haven’t changed much over the years and the younger generation craves variety, which is largely driven by American breweries. The UK has a developing craft scene and others are following suit.

I think it is a sign Stone are doing really really well. I am a huge fan of their beer but it’s incredibly hard to get their beer here in the UK. If it means Stone beers in the UK with easy access then this is a great idea to expand to Germany.

I don’t think these things are opposites. Yes, craft beer is growing, and yes they are (probably) a greedy corporation – who can blame them? That whole capitalism thing really took off. Saying that, I don’t like Brewdog expanding too much either and knocking the stuffing out of the smaller more experimental guys.

I think crowdsourcing is a great idea – they test the market, the market pays for it if it wants it.

Stone beer has already been received well here in the UK by us blogging types, I’m sure more people would like to experiment further with the American styles, we are getting some right old crap in the supermarkets purporting to be American style – and it bears no relation to the good stuff. I’d imagine Germany might be a bit sniffy what with their beer laws.

If some Europeans went to America (it wouldn’t be the first time eh?) I’d say that we were over-beered, undersexed and over there. Woo Europe.

No. Craft beer is not just an American term, don’t listen to the CAMRA people. Craft beer is a good, honest and proper thing.

I don’t agree its an american brewery why should it go international it should stay within its country I don’t like any scheme which tries to get rid of jobs its people’s welfare and life there messing with people need there jobs its out of order

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