Baldur's Gate: EE impressions

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
So, they made the best part of the game trivial now?

I was going to leave it alone, but that's just stupid. You don't market your opportunism as an homage and then do something like that.

I used to love how the early parts would kick your ass if you weren't careful, and how you slowly evolved from weaklings to a respectable party. In fact, it's one of the things I love about classic RPGs in general - in much the same way I love the Gothics.

The best part of the game was getting wiped out 10 feet from candlekeep because the game spawns too many enemies? What are you a masocist?

I'm glad they changed it. I don't need to get my ass kicked everytime I enter a new area. I'd rather have challenging fights that I win more often than not.

Originally Posted by blatantninja
The best part of the game was getting wiped out 10 feet from candlekeep because the game spawns too many enemies? What are you a masocist?

No, I like to be challenged - and getting killed in the beginning makes me consider my actions more carefully. That's how you learn and adapt - so long as the game is fair.

Now, the low-level D&D game has always been a bit of a gamble - because of the low amount of hitpoints - and the high amount of mobs in the average encounter. But you don't need more than 1-2 levels before that starts turning around. As I said, I really like being challenged at first - just like I love Gothic and how I was killed dozens of times before I started to adapt. But it does need to be fair about it.

I'm glad they changed it. I don't need to get my ass kicked everytime I enter a new area. I'd rather have challenging fights that I win more often than not.

DArtagnan

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
Oh, and I'd also like to understand why it's a better experience by "quite a margin" than a fully modded BG with BG2 changes? I really don't understand what part of it makes it so much better?

The simple experience of modding BG is unpleasant. The modders have done good work, but its still a pain to install a dozen or so mods (which you often have to do in a specific order), and then you still have the font issues and such at high resolutions. That alone makes BGEE superior to the modded vanilla game. That hour or so of installing then modding is time I could spend actually playing the game.

Originally Posted by blatantninja
The simple experience of modding BG is unpleasant. The modders have done good work, but its still a pain to install a dozen or so mods (which you often have to do in a specific order), and then you still have the font issues and such at high resolutions. That alone makes BGEE superior to the modded vanilla game. That hour or so of installing then modding is time I could spend actually playing the game.

I think your experience is out of date. It wasn't long ago that I installed it the last time, and it was really quite simple with the tools available. Of course, I don't go overboard with mods. I generally just want the BG2 changes and the combined fixes and such.

I think it took 10 minutes after having installed the games - but of course if that time spent installing and preparing is a big deal, then that's fair enough.

I don't see how that has anything to do with the actual gameplay, which is what Maylander was referring to - AFAIK.

DArtagnan

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
I'm not sure what the point of your post is. If that's your perception of me, then wouldn't it be wiser to simply ignore me? I really don't have the stamina to try and correct your image that you seem to hold so dear. You're not even reading - you're just responding based on pre-conceived notions that you have no underpinning for. That's useless to me.

I value your opinion just as I value all opinions according to their level of insight. AFAIK, you're a reasonably informed gamer - so your opinion about games is valuable.

Not true, I stopped posting in are other thread trying to not make it personal. I have nothing against you personally as I don't know you. Although I can't deny some of your posts rub me the wrong way. This was not one of them though so I felt fine with posting.

I think my points are valid. You have been very vocal about your negative feelings about this project. In this thread you have accepted and added to all the negative comments and dismissed the positive ones.

Do you really want to understand why people like it because it would seem your mind is made up. I guess I think that's a valid point.

Btw, I read almost all of every thread I post in excluding ones that are older and extremely long. I try not to post if I'm unaware of what's going on within the thread.
Also I don't ignore anyone's posts even if I don't like what they are saying it doesn't mean I can't find value in it.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
Oh, and I'd also like to understand why it's a better experience by "quite a margin" than a fully modded BG with BG2 changes? I really don't understand what part of it makes it so much better?

Neither do I, which is why I have no interest in playing/buying BG:EE, therefore no review from me!

Btw, at least according to this thread, the reduced spawns also affect areas like xvart
village, gnoll fortress, Ulcaster ruins or Firewine, not just random wilderness encounters.

Originally Posted by DeepO
Btw, at least according to this thread, the reduced spawns also affect areas like xvart
village, gnoll fortress, Ulcaster ruins or Firewine, not just random wilderness encounters.

People have to be careful while claiming this, because BGTutu and Big World had increased spawns for these places (well a bug in reality with x2-x3 the number of monsters). Some people might be remembering those play-through and not vanilla. The Gnoll Fortress is a good example, the first time I did that area with BGTutu I found it crazy, Gnolls every steps, it wasn't like that in vanilla.

Also, some people in that thread claims that the Wyverns encounters are missing Ethercaps, but Maylander had the proper encounters.

I forget, do you have to take companions in the BG games, or can you roll a whole party? I only played BG when it first came out and never finished the game. I think I got to the titular city and had a machine crash and never went back. I bought BG2 but hated all the contingency and counterspell crap and didn't play that one far at all. I liked Jon Irenicus, as I recall, but I don't think I played much past him.

I actually liked Aerie and Imoen and I think those are the two that most people hate

Originally Posted by joxer
I'm not a good material for a reviewer:
- I can't stand bugs, especially those that can be fixed easily
- I despise quantity over quality
- I couldn't care less for iPhone/console games
- I can't be impressed with multiplayer in basically singleplayer games

All modern reviewers think differently. And not just reviewers… But you too.

My values exactly Joxer, I would love to read a reviewer with that mindset actually.

Originally Posted by crpgnut
I forget, do you have to take companions in the BG games, or can you roll a whole party? I only played BG when it first came out and never finished the game. I think I got to the titular city and had a machine crash and never went back. I bought BG2 but hated all the contingency and counterspell crap and didn't play that one far at all. I liked Jon Irenicus, as I recall, but I don't think I played much past him.

Not sure on BGEE, but on the original you could do a multiplayer session with just yourself that allows you to roll the whole party. There are other ways as well (I saw someone once made characters and used the mod method to drop them right in the area where the ambush occurs so he could then add them in).

I actually liked Aerie and Imoen and I think those are the two that most people hate

Seems to be 50/50. I love them both. Every time I play BG2 I say I'm not going to bring Aerie along, but I can't not add her. Then I say I won't romance her, but I am powerless against her charms (I even played a female once, but didn't realize one of the mods I installed allowed for same sex romances. That was pretty interesting, though I'm still not quite clear how Aerie ended up pregnant! I don't recall any fertility clinics in the Forgotten Realms).

Originally Posted by sakichop
Not true, I stopped posting in are other thread trying to not make it personal. I have nothing against you personally as I don't know you. Although I can't deny some of your posts rub me the wrong way. This was not one of them though so I felt fine with posting.

You have an interesting way of not making it personal

As for what my posts do to you - that's understandable. You have a perception of me that's being enforced by your perception of my posts. But I don't feel responsible for that, and I can't correlate my actual personality with the image you seem to have of me.

I'm a completely different person - but it's ok if you don't think so. I just don't want to waste time going through crap that has nothing to do with the subjects at hand.

I think my points are valid. You have been very vocal about your negative feelings about this project. In this thread you have accepted and added to all the negative comments and dismissed the positive ones.

Many have been vocal - and that's fine. We're speaking our minds. Yes, I'm negative towards this project and I've given detailed reasons as to why. You don't agree, and that's fine.

I haven't dismissed the positive ones at all - I simply weigh them VERY differently. I don't see the positives as worth the asking price - and that's all there is to it.

Do you really want to understand why people like it because it would seem your mind is made up. I guess I think that's a valid point.

I'll answer this once, because I think it's good form to be flexible and amiable when there's an apparent misunderstanding. But I'm not going to bother answering similar questions in the future - because they call my honesty into question - and then there's no reason to exchange.

Yes, I want to know why Maylander likes it so much. Apparently, I can't have a negative impression of the game and be highly sceptical towards it - and yet want to know why other people like it? I don't see the conflict.

I'm the kind of person who believes in myself and my own perceptions a lot - but if I don't ask or question things - I'll never know if I'm right or not. I'm often wrong like everyone else - and I don't have an ego problem admitting it. I just don't set aside my experience to please people or "rub them the right way" - as that would be a complete waste of energy and be deceitful.

If Maylander or someone else gives detailed and clear reasons for their high praise - I'll accept it immediately.

Also I don't ignore anyone's posts even if I don't like what they are saying it doesn't mean I can't find value in it.

You've certainly missed something about me, but whatever. Let's not go into that.

DArtagnan

Originally Posted by blatantninja
I'm glad they changed it. I don't need to get my ass kicked everytime I enter a new area. I'd rather have challenging fights that I win more often than not.

Except that there's no challenging fights at all now. Sure there's the hand-placed encounters, but any hope of a decent battle from a random mob is all but gone.

Not only are the random encounters too easy, but they also don't make sense from a D&D lore perspective. You should almost never run across a lone gibberling or xvart for example, because creatures of those races wouldn't be travelling solo.

Originally Posted by JDR13
Except that there's no challenging fights at all now. Sure there's the hand-placed encounters, but any hope of a decent battle from a random mob is all but gone.

Well, I got my butt kicked by a dire worl before making it to Friendly Arm Inn, so there's that! I see what you are saying, we'll see how I feel about it as the game progresses.

Not only are the random encounters too easy, but they also don't make sense from a D&D lore perspective. You should almost never run across a lone gibberling or xvart for example, because creatures of those races wouldn't be travelling solo.

Yeah, that's not going to bother me too much. I get that some people would be bothered by that, but I don't know anything about D&D lore outside what I've learned playing BG, IWD and NWN.

I actually rather liked less encounters with random enemies in earlier stage - all my characters are all piss weak, I used to hate the earlier part of the game. There's fun challenging (when you are given tools to work out strategy) and boring challenging (when you have hardly any tools to do something different other than running to guards or sacrifice one of your meat-shield companion) - original BG1 belonged to latter (in my opinion).

I just can't wait to meet new NPCs… and here's me desperately hoping they will get the mod working for BG:EE…

Call me silly, but I think BG:EE was worth money. There are flaws, that were mentioned already by others (e.g. almost no options - I mean, the only option for graphics tool was full screen/non full screen! thought it was a bug or something) but I think they are minor (since I haven't experienced any game breaking glitches/bugs). Yes, the enhancements are also rather minor changes too but I love the fact I don't have to install so many mods - they tend to do funny things when you have them installed in "incorrect" order.

Ok… As I said I would, I installed a copy of the original game ("Original Saga" version from GOG) and played up to reaching the Friendly Arm inn.

First of all, it's pretty hard to go back to the original unmodded version without finding it very painful on the eyes after playing BGEE. "Holy pixels, Batman!" That is one ugly game. It also feels like it's zoomed in way too close after playing the EE version for awhile, but that's obviously just a symptom of the 640x480 resolution.

I still like the original cinematics a lot more, and they still look decent imo, even when stretched across my 24" LCD. There's one when you reach the Friendly Arm inn that was removed completely in BGEE. I hope someone is able to patch/mod those back in somehow.

One major event I noticed changes to is when Sarevok ambushes Gorion and the PC upon leaving Candlekeep. In the original game, it's just Sarevok and two ogres whom are killed by Gorion prior to getting killed by Sarevok. In BGEE, Sarevok shows up with two ogres, two archers, and his female companion whom you later meet in the city. Gorion kills off everyone but Sarevok and whats-her-name before meeting his maker.

Also, I have to admit that, after all my bitching, the difference in the random encounters isn't as great as I remember. In the two areas between Candlekeep and TFAI, I was encountering single gibberlings and xvarts the same as in BGEE. I could swear I remember there being more monsters, unless maybe the GOG version was tweaked from the original retail release as well.

They really need to add an option to lock the zoom in BGEE though. As blatantninja mentioned, it's extremely annoying that the view resets back to being zoomed all the way out every time you enter/exit a building or transition to a new area. It's especially aggravating to me because I find the default view to be much too high.

A limited run feature would also have been nice, as sometimes it feels like I'm waiting forever for my party to reach a certain spot. Iirc, didn't the IWD games allow you to run by holding down the shift key?

I can't comment on much else having only compared both versions up to reaching TFAI. Other than the new cinematics and my issue with the camera zoom though, I really can't think of anything to complain about in regards to the EE version.

An update regarding the monster spawns - It's just been announced that it will be addressed in the next patch.

Just going to quickly submit an update here despite the thread being closed:

For those waiting with bated breath, we figured out what went wrong here. Yes, there was an introduced bug, due to differences in the way the math was handled for the scaling/spawning system from BG1 to BG2. We attempted to make the BG1 maps use the BG2 system, but, when it came to this particular aspect we basically didn't go far enough.

Interestingly: in the course of investigation we found out that BG2 doesn't really use the random spawn system the same way that BG1 does. While it fits the style of gameplay in BG2 (sort of a more linear storyline), it's a kind of cool discovery in terms of giving us options for new content.

So: this fix should be present in our next patch. Thanks all involved for bringing it to our attention. Feel free to shoot me a message if you have questions.