If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

It used to be enjoyable. When I was a kid, we're get dressed up and go to Wanamaker's or Gimbels. They had a little Secret Shop where kids could go in and buy trinkets for their parents (mom would pin an envelope of cash to our coat and we'd go in the shop with an employee. Can you IMAGINE doing that today???)

We'd mostly window shop and have lunch and it was fun to see all the decorations (because they were not out before Thanksgiving!!!) In fact, Santa didn't arrive until Thanksgiving, at the end of the Gimbels parade, when he would climb a ladder into the store.

Wow, now I am dating myself

This sounds like something out a black and white holiday movie, doesn't it? In a good way, of course! I don't remember anything like that around here, when the only "big city" we shopped in was Burlington in Alamance Co. and they had all the "downtown stores" (Woolworths, Raylesses)--talk about dating one's self! Many of those downtown streets have been empty and bricked over as ped walkways for 20-30 years!!

I totally agree with Kay that Thanksgiving is truly the forgotten holiday due to the almighty dollar that Christmas brings in. Family means nothing to the business world. Halloween gets more publicity than Thanksgiving. I shop differently, I guess, for more unique, personal stuff so the BF mall discounts mean nothing to me. Plus I can't handle the crowds. Plus I feel bad for the folks having to handle the crowds by working! Never done BF, don't plan on it anytime soon. When I saw a feature on the news recently about some stores being open T-Day, I couldn't believe they were going there...

Kay, don't let Stacy & Clinton catch you in a Thanksgiving vest!! Ya know how they feel about those (says one who still pulls out the little sweater vest with the candy cane and gingerbread man at least once during the holidays!)!

I love BF, after lunch. There are still bargains to be had, traffic has died down. I have to get up at 5:15AM every day. Nope I'm not getting up early to go shopping and think it is a shame that it has been extended, now into Thursday evening.

BUT, to each his/her own.

You may have had a lot of unfair things happen, but when you look back over your life, remember something good that has happened for you. Replay the good memories. Joel Osteen

Kay, don't let Stacy & Clinton catch you in a Thanksgiving vest!! Ya know how they feel about those (says one who still pulls out the little sweater vest with the candy cane and gingerbread man at least once during the holidays!)!

I don't care... If I had a Thanksgiving vest that fit, I'd proudly wear it! I'm a sucker for holiday clothes, though I do get tired of my Christmas stuff, and wearing green. I'm a redhead, so no red stuff for me!

Good gravy, saw some TV ads today promoting "forget the crowds, get BF prices THIS weekend," and many Pre-BF prices in newspaper flyers declaring the sale before the BF sale (excluding BF Early Bird items, which appear to be 99% of the inventories)! When they start promoting the Pre- Pre-BF sales, I think we're really in trouble. They need to just go ahead and plunk the Christmas red & green out with the July 4th red, white & blue, geez.

Originally Posted by LakeMartinGal

I don't care... If I had a Thanksgiving vest that fit, I'd proudly wear it! I'm a sucker for holiday clothes, though I do get tired of my Christmas stuff, and wearing green. I'm a redhead, so no red stuff for me!

Kay, I bet you'd look even lovelier in burgundies or deep bluer reds. I so admire red hair (the auburn glint in my dark brown does not count and is far outnumbered by the silver). I'm with you on the holiday clothing, but have toned it down in the last few years--no more ice-skating bear sweaters for me. I have the more subtle holly w/sequin berries themes. And I love holiday earrings by Sienna Sky. (But--My fave holiday t-shirt(s) read "Happy Heel-o-days," go figure.)

To stray a little bit, I think the proliferation of BF and now preBF promotional deals is underscoring the growing gap between the haves and everyone else.

From what I have read in the business pages, the super high end stores are doing quite well but stores catering to the working and middle classes are continuing to struggle - Walmart is even reporting declines in sales of staples linked to hard economic times for the masses.

Kay, I bet you'd look even lovelier in burgundies or deep bluer reds. I so admire red hair (the auburn glint in my dark brown does not count and is far outnumbered by the silver). I'm with you on the holiday clothing, but have toned it down in the last few years--no more ice-skating bear sweaters for me. I have the more subtle holly w/sequin berries themes. And I love holiday earrings by Sienna Sky. (But--My fave holiday t-shirt(s) read "Happy Heel-o-days," go figure.)

My reds still outnumber the silvers, thanks to Miss Clairol! But I'm an orange redhead, not a burgundy one, so oranges are ok, but no blue-reds!

I don't even get a newspaper, so I don't know about all the stuff in the ads, TG! And we have TiVo, so I don't watch commercials. Most of my shopping is done online, from Amazon wish lists, as my girls are not that nearby. I like to go for a brief time, in the afternoon, like JMarie said, and be done with the crowd. I really enjoyed it in Buffalo, as that was the only time I allowed myself to buy sponge candy and eat it. Too humid and warm for it down here!

Actually, DD dragged me to BF last year, and we had a great time. We went out around 10 AM with a list in hand of things we were looking for (just things we needed to buy, not advertised items we were trying to nab). The lines were long, but there were plenty of checkers and they moved very quickly. Everyone seemed to be in a festive mood, and it was really a fun activity at the beginning of the holiday season.

We got some great deals on clothes she needed and several Christmas gifts we were looking for, and believe it or not, we only bought one thing that wasn't already on our list (some delicious Christmas chocolates!). We will definitely go again this Friday at a reasonable morning hour, but no, we won't start on Thanksgiving day. Thanksgiving first.

I think Black Friday should become Black Saturday so everyone can enjoy Thanksgiving and the day after. On second thought, I think we should celebrate Thanksgiving in October like our wise neighbors to the north. Then all of this would become a non-issue.

Okay Holiday music rant. On Friday I turned on my local soft rock station, and it has started with Christams music 24/7. Dh just heard on the radio Santa came to the mall yesterday. That always happens on Black friday.

I will probably head out sometime Friday afternoon since it is suppose to be raining and our stores do not get too crowded.

I think Black Friday should become Black Saturday so everyone can enjoy Thanksgiving and the day after. On second thought, I think we should celebrate Thanksgiving in October like our wise neighbors to the north. Then all of this would become a non-issue.

Okay Holiday music rant. On Friday I turned on my local soft rock station, and it has started with Christams music 24/7. Dh just heard on the radio Santa came to the mall yesterday. That always happens on Black friday.

I will probably head out sometime Friday afternoon since it is suppose to be raining and our stores do not get too crowded.

Laurie

My favorite station started in with the Christmas music a week ago. That is always another rant of mine. Some of my friends love it though, and listen for the whole 2 months. I would be sick of Christmas music by then. There are only so many versions of each song that are listen-able. Plus, don't forget that not everybody celebrates Christmas, those stations are just shutting out a portion of their audience!

The town I live in now always has their Christmas parade the Saturday before Thanksgiving. I've been here 5 years and still don't get that.

I have never been out on black Friday. I have scanned the ads occasionally and have never seen a deal offered that would make it worthwhile for me to stand in line, fight crowds, etc. But I hate shopping in general anyway.

I have worked in retail for close to 15 years (never big box, always specialty and mid price luxury). Last year my store was made to open on Thanksgiving. Those who worked were paid time and a half, and there were a few shoppers out which means we will always be open on that day since we have that volume to make again the following year. I am at a different location this year and we are opening at 4am because Macy's is opening earlier this year.

Black Friday doesn't bother me. I would never wait in line for it, but I get that some people are all for a good deal and the rush they get from the chaos. But I think it is pretty crappy to be open on Thanksgiving day to catch just a few more sales. Yes, I suppose I could find another field to work in, but to be honest, I had over a decade of not being expected to work on Thanksgiving or Christmas, so I'm allowed to be annoyed that my personal time is being compromised. Mind you our corporate employees and executives aren't ever working on those holidays, just the field employees and hourly workers.

I've read several financial analysts predicting that Black Friday is quickly losing its steam and it is no longer the biggest day of the year for many stores. I know my own store is starting many of the Black Friday deals before Friday, trying to bring in more sales.

All that rambling aside, I urge all of you to remember that the sales associate helping you may be doing the best they can, is probably making an embarrassingly small hourly rate, may be working this job along with a full time job to help make it through the holiday season and does not deserve to be treated rudely. I am not saying you should excuse poor service, but also don't punish these workers because you are stressed out by the holidays.

Happy Holidays! Despite my complaining, this is my favorite season at work. It is fun, your day goes by extremely fast, and there is nothing better than helping a customer find just the right gifts for the people on their lists. And an insider tip, if easy shopping is what you crave, try shopping on a weekday right when the stores open. That's when most of us do our shopping. Usually no crowd, no lines, stores are all cleaned up and associates are able to help you with everything you need. I can usually get almost all my holiday shopping in just a few hours (even the week before Christmas if necessary) this way.

Ashley

The instant we become an adult is the moment when the instinct to love is greater than the desire to be loved

I work in a call center that is open 24/7, 365 days a year. I have worked most holidays, including Thanksgiving and Christmas for many years. I am working 7am-3pm this year. People in hospitals work the holidays too. Where is all the outrage about that? If nothing else, at least these people are off til 10pm at night. They are getting the great majority of Thanksgiving off. Also, at least many of you have the opportunity to shop the day after--I will be working 7am-3pm the day after as well. The same is true of hospital workers and many others. Of course, police officers and firemen (and women) will be working Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years and all the other holidays as well? Again, where is the outrage over this?

I work in a call center that is open 24/7, 365 days a year. I have worked most holidays, including Thanksgiving and Christmas for many years. I am working 7am-3pm this year. People in hospitals work the holidays too. Where is all the outrage about that? If nothing else, at least these people are off til 10pm at night. They are getting the great majority of Thanksgiving off. Also, at least many of you have the opportunity to shop the day after--I will be working 7am-3pm the day after as well. The same is true of hospital workers and many others. Of course, police officers and firemen (and women) will be working Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years and all the other holidays as well? Again, where is the outrage over this?

While I agree that we have focused on the retail folks working, there are those in public service, as you mentioned, that don't have the luxury of off-times. But their work is not any more rushed because of Christmas than other times, IMO. We seem to have hit a nerve with you -- sorry. Still, kind of argumentative for a first post...

I work in a call center that is open 24/7, 365 days a year. I have worked most holidays, including Thanksgiving and Christmas for many years. I am working 7am-3pm this year. People in hospitals work the holidays too. Where is all the outrage about that? If nothing else, at least these people are off til 10pm at night. They are getting the great majority of Thanksgiving off. Also, at least many of you have the opportunity to shop the day after--I will be working 7am-3pm the day after as well. The same is true of hospital workers and many others. Of course, police officers and firemen (and women) will be working Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years and all the other holidays as well? Again, where is the outrage over this?

People who decide to work in hospitals, the police/fire force, etc are aware that those jobs are always 24/7. And those jobs are quite necessary and must be 24/7. I would hope that the workers who choose or are scheduled for holidays at least get compensation or other scheduling favors.

But there is NO NEED to have stores open on Thanksgiving. Those in corporate hq are probably not coming in to work, just the hourly retail workers.

So I don't think you can compare the two. There should be no outrage over essential workers who have to work - everyone knows that hospitals/police etc are always needed.

I work in a call center that is open 24/7, 365 days a year. I have worked most holidays, including Thanksgiving and Christmas for many years. I am working 7am-3pm this year. People in hospitals work the holidays too. Where is all the outrage about that? If nothing else, at least these people are off til 10pm at night. They are getting the great majority of Thanksgiving off. Also, at least many of you have the opportunity to shop the day after--I will be working 7am-3pm the day after as well. The same is true of hospital workers and many others. Of course, police officers and firemen (and women) will be working Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years and all the other holidays as well? Again, where is the outrage over this?

I'm a nurse, and have worked Thanksgiving (and BF) without complaint because there is a human need - people would die if there were no doctors, firefighters, or police officers working. That is why we do this - because we are needed. Stores do not need to be open on Thanksgiving - salespeople are forced to work so that business owners can make a bit more money. Why is this necessary?

Stores do not need to be open on Thanksgiving - salespeople are forced to work so that business owners can make a bit more money. Why is this necessary?

Stores are open because people want to shop. If the shoppers stopped showing up...the stores wouldn't open. It is a vicious cycle and the CONSUMER needs to stop shopping and rewarding the BUSINESS for opening.

I do NOT shop on BF. In fact, I don't typically go into stores at all on days I think they should be closed. I did work retail for many, many years, and sometimes I worked "holidays" (I'm including extended hours there). In my younger days, I loved the pay--one company I worked for offered double time for holidays, so there was an actual waiting list to be scheduled that day. But it comes down to the consumer--they quit showing up, stores will quit opening. True story: Many years ago, I worked at a chain bookstore. It was Xmas eve. We officially closed at 6pm, but it took over an hour to clear most of the shoppers out of the store. There was one woman left at about 7:30. My manager had politely reminded her we were closed. We had the front gate pulled down. I was closing out a register. My manager told her again we were closed and that she needed to wrap things up. She simply refused to be hurried. We turned half of the lights off & turned the heat off. She complained it was too dark & cold to shop. My manager then told her either she bought her goods or she left empty-handed--either way, she was out in 10 mins, even if it meant we had to have security escort her. She purchased her books and ranted at me about how it was rude of my manager to rush her, that she was trying to make it a nice Xmas for her family. My manager pointed out that we were trying to do the same, by actually getting home to them. To which the customer said, "Well, I don't even know why you're open today. I mean, who needs to shop on Xmas Eve anyway?" To which we had no reply. So, until that lady stops showing up, stores will be open at ridiculous hours.

As the arc of history bends towards justice, it's a new, more progressive day. --Steve Benen, The Maddow Blog, 11-07-12

Stores are open because people want to shop. If the shoppers stopped showing up...the stores wouldn't open. It is a vicious cycle and the CONSUMER needs to stop shopping and rewarding the BUSINESS for opening.

People will shop when the stores are open and more so when they have sales. They could stay closed all Thanksgiving weekend and people would still be shopping when they opened again. I think it's more the fear that it they aren't the first store open, people will go spend their dollars somewhere else and stop spending before a more sane time arrives.

I think it is more on the retailers creating the gottashopnow. It is the very essence of marketing and advertising -- create a desire, a need, and a sense of urgency. I never saw or heard a single person, ad, letter to the editor or simple conversation saying, "Gee, if only Walmart opened earlier, I'd spend more money there instead of going to the mall." Insert any other name there -- the point stands.

People will shop when the stores are open and more so when they have sales. They could stay closed all Thanksgiving weekend and people would still be shopping when they opened again. I think it's more the fear that it they aren't the first store open, people will go spend their dollars somewhere else and stop spending before a more sane time arrives.

I think it is more on the retailers creating the gottashopnow. It is the very essence of marketing and advertising -- create a desire, a need, and a sense of urgency. I never saw or heard a single person, ad, letter to the editor or simple conversation saying, "Gee, if only Walmart opened earlier, I'd spend more money there instead of going to the mall." Insert any other name there -- the point stands.

But that IS what happens. If Store A doesn't open at midnight & Store B does, Store B is going to take home more of the profits. Don't underestimate the importance of this single day. It's Black Friday because it's when many of these stores finally turned the corner into profit. Cyber Monday has encroached on this a bit. But the consumer's need for more-better-cheaper is a big factor here. Store's are there to make profits, not to make us happy. Greed is inherent in our economic system--and I think the consumer is at least as greedy as the stores are. We have a citizenry that is tied up in feeling entitled--it doesn't matter if I SHOULD be able to afford something, I deserve it! That's why these door busters & loss leaders come into play--the stores lose money on them, but it does lure people in--and they come in droves, because they want things, have convinced themselves they NEED them. That's not all on advertising & marketing. That's on us as a society. Until we address our appetite for stuff, this is where we'll be. Consuming at an alarming, and unappetizing, rate. To be clear, I do think this is all overboard, and I wish things would change. And I HAVE heard people say that if Store A opened earlier than Store B, they'd go there instead. In fact, a bunch of people were down in the hall talking about when the various stores open Fri...and planning their attacks. Gives me hives!

As the arc of history bends towards justice, it's a new, more progressive day. --Steve Benen, The Maddow Blog, 11-07-12

IF I was thinking about going Black Friday shopping, I would far prefer staying up late on Thanksgiving day to do a little shopping at midnight, over getting up early in the morning, because if you don't you won't find a parking spot at the mall.

Originally Posted by DanaSD

If I did shop at the stores I would prefer Thursday evening rather than so early on Friday.

Ditto. Also remember that for many people (i.e. government employees primarily), Black Friday is not a "holiday." It's really just the private business sector that gives employees the day after Thanksgiving off. So yeah, if I were going to shop, I'd prefer to do it late on Thursday than take Friday off work.

Originally Posted by charley

I think Black Friday should become Black Saturday so everyone can enjoy Thanksgiving and the day after.

See above, re the day after Thanksgiving. Many of us, who do not work in retail, "enjoy" that day by being at the office.

Ditto. Also remember that for many people (i.e. government employees primarily), Black Friday is not a "holiday." It's really just the private business sector that gives employees the day after Thanksgiving off.

I work for state government and have the Friday after Thanksgiving off. Ironically, I didn't have it off when I worked in the private sector for a bank. I don't know for sure but they always told us at the bank that it was against the law for a bank to be closed more than 3 consecutive days.

Huh, maybe it's just the feds and my state then. Fed employees and AZ state employees do not get the day after Thanksgiving as a holiday.

When I worked for the state of OR, we got a "floating" day off that we could use anytime between Thanksgiving and New Year's, that many people used to take the day after Thanksgiving off, but it was not an official holiday -- in other words, state offices were still open.