Welcome to the inaugural week of the /r/Jazz Listening Club. There was enough of a response from my post a few hours ago that I thought I'd get this show on the road. I didn't want to pick a 'canon' album, but wanted something classic and accessible, so I chose:

Elmo Hope - Trio and Quintet (1957)

Instructions for thread discussion: This is an open discussion for you to discuss anything about this album. Newcomers and lifelong connoisseurs are all welcome. Any relevant comments are welcome, but try to avoid really vague praise or criticism.

Sorry I don't have much to bring to the discussion cause i'm a total newbie to jazz, but i just wanted to say thanks for doing this! I'm really excited to hear each upcoming weeks jazz album and discover new bands. This will certainly make r/Jazz more interesting.

I'll split this up into three parts to match the three sessions on this album.

Elmo Hope Trio: Tracks 1 to 10

This third has high points and low. The majority of the album is very same-y with the bass and drums backing a high speed train ride up and down the keyboard. The pianist certainly has fast fingers! I enjoyed this at first but by time the third or fourth track with the same features played I had grown bored with it. Perhaps that says more about me than the album. The pianist sounds quite competent but a little uninspired on most of these tracks, although there were three exceptions.

It's a Lovely Day Today is easily my favourite track of the first third, and I've actually added this to my favourites in Spotify. Lovely rhythm - I enjoy piano as a rule but found the bass really enhanced this. I can see that it's quite accessible but more than any other track I felt my foot tapping along. I would love to play like this. The piano is the star here and it sings.

Sweet And Lovely is slow, slightly soporific in places. I enjoyed this more than I would've thought from the first few seconds of the piece. I felt like the methodic percussion and the bass were the main draw here, with the piano playing an accompanying role. It sounds like when you are slightly sick and your heart thuds in your brain as you sit in bed and watch the world go by outside while feeling sorry for yourself.

The beginning of Stars over Marakesh evokes a slight feel of Caravan and then...the same piano! The piano could be lifted from any of the other tracks for all the difference it would make! About 2:30 it goes back to being at least somewhat original. Cut out the middle and this would be wonderful.

Elmo Hope Quintet (1): Tracks 11 to 17

It's worth noting the addition of trumpet and tenor sax immediately here as it really changes the dynamics of the now quintet. While I don't feel that my worries about the lack of rhythmic, percussive, volume, etc variety have completely been assuaged, there is at least some difference between the brass and piano!

I enjoyed* Low Tide's* almost big band sound as something different. But for the most part I listened to the first half of these songs then skipped to the next.

Elmo Hope Quintet (2): Tracks 17 to 20

Only three songs! The first, So Nice, I actually really like. There's a mix of speed, a few longer notes, although I actually feel like the brass outshines the piano...heresy?

St. Elmo's Fire is great, too! The piano sounds like it's being played rather being used for some crazy finger exercises. The interplay between the different instruments is perhaps better on this track than any of the others.

By the time I finish the last track, Vaun-Ex, I feel like the piano - which started so strong on It's a Lovely Day - has faded to the background. I enjoy Vaun-Ex but this wasn't what I expected to hear from the beginning of the album. This may be due to the difference between the Trio and Quintet formats.

Summary

Elmo Hope has some of the fastest fingers I've ever heard and while it's impressive to hear from a pianist's point of view, from a jazz listener's point of view I find most of the album forgettable. There are flashes of something different, especially while in the Trio, although I feel that he's mostly trying to impress rather than relax. Every space is filled, and that, ironically, takes something away.

Would I listen to much Elmo Hope? Probably not. Would I want to have lessons from him? You bet.

I'm sticking with the song 'Abdullah'. It starts with a nice old drum introduction and the drummer (Art, who else?) continues his nice fills and flow troughout the whole song, especially during the piano solo! As a piano player myself, that solo is straight genius and couldn't be played better and the way the song erupts after the solo by the trumpet is just plain ecstatic. Definitly considering buying this one on vinyl!

Did the recording seem really unemphatic to anyone? Like Elmo was just barely getting to the notes. Also I was annoyed at how soft the left had was, this was probably the mixing though.

There were a few gems on this album but I felt like the trio wasn't on that day.

I guess one indication of this would be Elmo sort of falling back on a more traditional Bop soloing with a sort of big bad/ swing left hand situation. Both are pretty easy to just fall asleep at the wheel on if you've practiced enough.

My exceptions to this:

Hot Sauce - I thought the Base wanted to be really energetic all album and this was a good chance for it, the tune was better because of it. It was also nice to here a syncopated sound out of Elmo.

Stars over Marakesh - This was different enough from the rest of the album that it really got my attention. It had a funny little pentatonic chorus thingy that was...well...fun.

My first impression of this album is how well mixed it is. The sound is incredibly clear and precise on the first track. Though I am a fan of the older sounding jazz recordings, the precision of this really draws me in. I'll contribute something more interesting to the discussion later after work.

I'm going to mention a little something about the first six tracks and gather final analysis at the end. Wish me luck.

To start, the dog on the album cover is just adorable! Although a little simplistic rhythm and melody line wise, I really think that this a great selection for a opening number on an album. Sweet and simple draws the folks in.

Whatever was lacking complexity wise on track one is immediately compensated for in the first five seconds of this selection. Love the drum break, and although I'm not a huge fan of drum breaks in a piece like this one, I think the length of the break and middle line complexity really complements the mood of the number. I'm a sucker for syncopation, and it really hits home at the end of the chart.

Somewhat of a sour opening for this ballad, but maybe that's my disposition for keys like this one. The more and more I listen to the piece, I'm reminded of the modern minimalism that's starting to arise in the music industry, and it's impressive beyond belief to hear an artist so ahead of their time. But jazz has always been ahead of its time, hasn't it? ;).

Right away, I love the mood of this piece. Not a huge fan of the diction of the drummer, I'm not sure what it is, maybe the type of stick or cymbal, but it just doesn't fit. The drummer starts to make a come back for me right near the end of the piece, so whatever he changed, I really appreciated.

Maybe they just need to tone down the drummer altogether, and that's hard to say even for me because I'm a drummer myself. Besides, great mood, once again, and the melody line is just really hitting for me this time. I'm not sure if this is a result of my computer or the lag, but the left hand of the piano player mixed with the base creates the perfect rhythm pocket for the right hand of the player. The slightly conflicting rhythms create the perfect push and pull for me. Syncopation centered around the 2:50 mark really ties up the piece for me. One of my favorite tracks so far.

Not a huge fan of the opening section of this piece. Near the 1:00 mark, things start to shape up for me, but then take a downward fall again. I think as musicians, we need to learn to respect every piece, but we certainly don't need to like. Respecting it means listening to the piece through and through. A dislike of the melody or the key provide the chance to search for different parts in the piece we can appreciative and expound on.

All in all. Huge fan of the album and it looks like I'm going to have some music to keep me company for the week. It's so nice to be able to sit here and discuss and critique.

I became an Elmo Hope completist after exhausting the Herbie Nichols discography. They seem to me to have things in common, other than the tragically shortened careers - a light touch and a certain psychological edge: a mix of emotional complexity, diffidence and fragility that I find interesting and appealing.

The trio tracks find Mo with his preferred drummer, Philly Joe Jones, whose more aggressive attack sometimes adds a compelling friction - although that is much more evident on The Final Sessions, a very worthwhile counterpart to this excellent collection.

Sounds good on Spotify - Elmo's touch fares much better with Rudy Van Gelder's piano/recording techniques than many other pianists.

I'm surprised at how short the tunes are for a Hard Bop record from the 50's. I tend to associate 3 minute tunes with the old Bebop records from the 40s. It can be nice to force the soloists to fit their ideas into a restricted number of choruses but I felt like I wanted the nice extended solos I am used to with this style.

Great choice for a record. It has jazz legends on it who don't normally make it onto the "jazz legends" lists.

This is a great way to enjoy and study at the same time. Deepest appreciation for the depth being brought to the discussion. For me, Elmo, Percy Heath and Art Blakey are a magic combo. This album has much more in terms of legendary virtuoso. I did not have the album and had to piece it together from different sources, still not entirely sure I have all the correct recordings, going through the lineups on other versions and and trying to figure out if I have the right recording.

Relistening to the album after reading the discussion here is the biggest take-away I have from this topic. As a non-pianist, I would have not been able to appreciate much of the stylistic uniqueness of this album were it not for the comments here.

My favorites so far - Abdullah, Stars over Marrakesh, and obviously Elmo's Fire (not entirely sure if I have the quintet recording though).

Swings hard, and the interaction is great! The shape of the solos seem too linear though. I really dig the vocabulary everyone uses, just seems very monotone. I guess I could sum up the tune by saying that the musicians are engaging in Interesting Small Talk...which, subjectively speaking, is not the way an album should end.

Thank you smashbang. This was a great idea and the album is certainly making my late night assignment crunch a much less shitty process.
That being said forgive any of my comments if they are short sited or due to me listening not too in-depth.
First of all I think the album is very good. The rhythm section really makes the recording for me. Its very constant but they do a fantastic job of keeping it all together especially with faster pace of the album.
I do wish the piano was more up front in the mix. While loud doesn't equal good exactly I think Elmo should have a bit more volume and perhaps be a little less soft.
The composition is also very fantastic. Forgive me if I'm messing up dates but this seems like a perfect blend of Bop and Swing. The two genres are my favorite of Jazz but if they go too full force they can get a bit tedious for differing reason.
Anyway, pardon the wall of text. Thanks again for the idea!

This is a really awesome idea, I've been looking for something like this.

This album was a good choice, the only member of the line-ups I recognized was Art Blakey, so it introduced a whole new group of jazz artists to me. I'm not sure if these were all original compositions or if they are standards but all the tunes were original to me. If anyone has recommendations on other artists takes on these songs I'd love to hear 'em.

I'm not sure if it's a fault of my ignorance / general inexperience with jazz, but if you left out the heads of most of the songs I don't think I'd be able to tell them apart.

Really enjoyed the album, I plan to listen to more of Elmo & I quite enjoyed some of the other artists - Harold Land in particular, and that trumpet sound from Stu Williamson in St. Elmo's Fire was really cool.

Late to the party here but I intended to contribute. I've never heard this album so thanks for introducing me!

I really enjoy the melody on "Crazy" - most tunes are quite standard 50's hard bop, which isn't a bad thing. The rhythm section is fantastic in my opinion - has a true big band feel and reminds me a lot of Ellington. Some Monk-ish parts in "Stars over marakesh" which weave in and out. I really like the short songs, it's a nice change to records that came out around that time.
Can't wait for next week!

First reason is both Philly and Art shine as drummers in this recording. Swinging as all hell. Completely unwavering time at any tempo, and always perfectly supportive and interactive without being intrusive.

Secondly, the forms of most songs are pretty straightforward in nature (head, solos, head out), nor do they really go very far "out", yet every note from every instrument is perfectly placed. Solos build climatically while the rhythm section interacts in a calm controlled way. Very different from the hard bop takeover that would happen in a few years. It reminds me a lot of Soul Station by Hank Mobley

Third reason is Elmo Hope's solos. Though not bombastic and fast, they are beautiful and polite, and I mean that in the best way possible.

Nice pick, OP! I hope we can get into some albums that people have really polarized opinions about.

My first comment to the first track is that almost static left hand. He takes that Basie idea of playing the fifth with an acciacatura semitone below, creating an almost drone sound with occasionally the root in there too. It makes for odd and almost clunky listening compared to the fast and free flowing right hand, which is full of classic bebop.

3 tracks in: it's a very nice feeling, some very hip ideas. elmo's no oscar peterson, sometimes his playing almost sounds lazy, but it's kind of an "i don't really give that many shits, here are the tunes". but the essence of the music carries for me. and i dig the arrangements.