Sony has more experience in the hardware arena than Microsoft. That's probably part of the reason the box is so much smaller, even though it's holding more raw power in it. The airflow design on both consoles seem more than adequate enough to handle and expel the heat of these very efficient, less heat producing 28nm APUs. You would have to know much more detailed info about the arrangement of parts and heat output of all the hardware internals to be able to say, "it's still unsafe to just make a box that small."

Sony producing three consoles over Microsoft's two wouldn't have any relevance. Both Microsoft and Sony have hired veterans of the industry to create their consoles. The design of the PS4 makes cooling more difficult for Sony than the Xbox One for Microsoft. It was unsafe and unnecessary risk to go with such a small box just for the sake of aesthetics. Sony engineers have had it tough making this console with such a small form factor in mind, and it is pure vainglory to have opted for creating such a small console rather than just having opted to keep the console cool through the best and smartest way possible, which is to just make the box bigger.

Sucking in air from the _top_ of the console box, running it through the biggest HSF they could fit and then letting hot air mix around inside the case and hoping it'll find it's way out of one of the other vents is not the best and smartest way possible, it's the cheapest and easiest way possible.

Sucking in air from the _top_ of the console box, running it through the biggest HSF they could fit and then letting hot air mix around inside the case and hoping it'll find it's way out of one of the other vents is not the best and smartest way possible, it's the cheapest and easiest way possible.

I think the size of the console has more to do with how efficient the hardware is, and less to do with an ego/PR thing. I doubt either developer wants to deal with dead consoles especially after the RROD fiasco.

Originally Posted by Sparc

For goodness sake I hope nobody thinks to start labelling the console an Xbrick,
oops

Sucking in air from the _top_ of the console box, running it through the biggest HSF they could fit and then letting hot air mix around inside the case and hoping it'll find it's way out of one of the other vents is not the best and smartest way possible, it's the cheapest and easiest way possible.

Where did you get that it sucks air from the top and blows it through the system (not to say that's necessarily an issue give that all the DDR3 Mem's are right below the heatsink and fan, and only one significant IC is sitting out away from major air flow.)

The reason I ask, is because based on traditional fin design, it would appear that this would suck air up through the bottom of the heat sink, meaning cooler air inside the chassis in general. What's not shown is the bottom side of the top panel. I'd assume that it's got a closed fit over the top of the fan shrouding and force most of the air out the top and back sides while most of the incoming air is coming from the left and below. It looks like there's a good 3/4" - 1" of space above the fan and BD drive based on comparing images, it would make since for porting duct work. Not the most space efficient design mind you, but I don't really see it being 'Not Smart'

Sony producing three consoles over Microsoft's two wouldn't have any relevance. Both Microsoft and Sony have hired veterans of the industry to create their consoles. The design of the PS4 makes cooling more difficult for Sony than the Xbox One for Microsoft. It was unsafe and unnecessary risk to go with such a small box just for the sake of aesthetics. Sony engineers have had it tough making this console with such a small form factor in mind, and it is pure vainglory to have opted for creating such a small console rather than just having opted to keep the console cool through the best and smartest way possible, which is to just make the box bigger.

I wasn't talking purely game consoles. Sony in general has been making hardware forever, and they have tons of experts in-house they can grab to get this done. And like Insanehead, it's even more amazing how much better Sony is at compressing stronger hardware into a smaller box when you consider that they keep their PSU inside the box, while Xbox has a huge, clunky PSU connected to the power cord. Sony engineers are just better in this area, period.

BTW, are these concerns of yours backed by any info you found stating PS4 possibly having heating issues, or are you just paranoid because the size of the system? Because, looking at the back of the system, it's easy to see why the heat dissipation should be adequate. If you had some type of inside info of sorts, then it'd be worth arguing over this whole point, otherwise, I don't see why this is even being so deeply delved into right now.

I wasn't talking purely game consoles. Sony in general has been making hardware forever, and they have tons of experts in-house they can grab to get this done. And like Insanehead, it's even more amazing how much better Sony is at compressing stronger hardware into a smaller box when you consider that they keep their PSU inside the box, while Xbox has a huge, clunky PSU connected to the power cord. Sony engineers are just better in this area, period.

BTW, are these concerns of yours backed by any info you found stating PS4 possibly having heating issues, or are you just paranoid because the size of the system? Because, looking at the back of the system, it's easy to see why the heat dissipation should be adequate. If you had some type of inside info of sorts, then it'd be worth arguing over this whole point, otherwise, I don't see why this is even being so deeply delved into right now.

why this is being delved into? c'mon bro u know damn well people are just trying to doom and gloom the console. there is no cracks, so they're trying to invent some by trying to compare it (ridiculously) to other past consoles.

Where did you get that it sucks air from the top and blows it through the system (not to say that's necessarily an issue give that all the DDR3 Mem's are right below the heatsink and fan, and only one significant IC is sitting out away from major air flow.)

The reason I ask, is because based on traditional fin design, it would appear that this would suck air up through the bottom of the heat sink, meaning cooler air inside the chassis in general. What's not shown is the bottom side of the top panel. I'd assume that it's got a closed fit over the top of the fan shrouding and force most of the air out the top and back sides while most of the incoming air is coming from the left and below. It looks like there's a good 3/4" - 1" of space above the fan and BD drive based on comparing images, it would make since for porting duct work. Not the most space efficient design mind you, but I don't really see it being 'Not Smart'

I'm basing that on (typically) whichever side of the fan houses the power wire is the exhaust side. I don't see a wire on the top so...yeah. Of course my old eyes aren't exactly as sharp as they used to be and only got one angle of the image so I could very well be wrong and it could be exhausting upwards. That HSF is located right under the open grills on the top right of the box BTW.

And I didn't say it was "not smart", just that it wasn't "the smartest"
(as in I'd want it blowing cool air in over the HSF and have a chassis fan to remove the heated air. Or a blower style setup)

Not to argue with you but this really doesn't mean crap. First talk about Power of APU, Heatsinks, and CFM of fans only then start talking about ventilation. There's a $#@! load of fins as vents as would be expected, especially for one w/ the power brick inside, presumably at the back like the PS3.

A big thing to point out is the C7 power coupler, which is for lower power. Sony used the C13 (like on your PC power supply) on the PS3 Phat and moved to the C7 when they brought the power down on the PS3 Slim. I'd expect the power consumption of the first gen PS4 to be no more than 165W max, probably a little less. Something in line with the Slim, maybe a little lower.

But that's speculation. What I'd really like to see is a teardown view of the PS3. It's interesting how the ports are sitting up high on the backside of the PS4. Probably just a small PCB up there that's ribbon cabled to the main board though.

Not to argue with you but this really doesn't mean crap. First talk about Power of APU, Heatsinks, and CFM of fans only then start talking about ventilation. There's a $#@! load of fins as vents as would be expected, especially for one w/ the power brick inside, presumably at the back like the PS3.

A big thing to point out is the C7 power coupler, which is for lower power. Sony used the C13 (like on your PC power supply) on the PS3 Phat and moved to the C7 when they brought the power down on the PS3 Slim. I'd expect the power consumption of the first gen PS4 to be no more than 165W max, probably a little less. Something in line with the Slim, maybe a little lower.

But that's speculation. What I'd really like to see is a teardown view of the PS3. It's interesting how the ports are sitting up high on the backside of the PS4. Probably just a small PCB up there that's ribbon cabled to the main board though.

No worries. I'm sure there a lot of factors involved. I really want to see the insides of this thing.

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