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I think you make the point of what true fans are though. I too have watched since 1986 when RoJohn and Marlena first hooked me. Evee when we cringed or cried with our characters because of what they were going thorugh, we never turned the sets off. I haed Roman when he came back in 92. I did not stop watching. I hated Kristen in 94 to 96, but I never stopped watching. I loved to hate that witch. Some of J&M's best scenes were those when Kristen and John were together and all J&M could do was long for each other via looks.

What has made fans stop watching over the years is the ridiculous story lines that went too far, not including possession, which I and many others simply loved, understanding that some detested it. Ratings note however that fans did not leave in droves in 95 during possession. Fans began to complain with Princess Gina & Pawn, Brady v. Marlena with John as the a-hole in the background, SSK was great until everyone came back, Melaswen was a hot mess, and only to be followed by Alex North. Instead of stepping back and saying how can we create more mature and relevant stories for vets so they support the youth, TPTB big idea was to bb J&M and Bope from January 07 to June 07 and then brought them back to read letters that changed the history of a vendetta that they all lived through.

The fans were not indecisive, but the writers and Ken Corday sure were. You can't through garbage at people who were used to quality and expect them to accept it. What did Days believe J&M fans would do for six months while our favs were bb and in a coma? Did TPTB believe that watching people, even georgeous people we love, reading letters were riveting television? Blaming consumers for not buying an inferior product from slum lords is absolutely unacceptable.

I wanted to include a point about the terrible writing we've been subjected to, but ran out of time. You finished up better than I could've. Thanks! :hail:

This day had to come eventually anyway. I just envisioned it as moving J&M to the backburner but I guess you can say they've been doing that slowly with some resurgence here and there since JER left in 1997.

You can't rely on the same characters over and over. I mean, that is a big reason why there is no suspense. You've been there, done that.

Uh, then why does Y&R and B&B and other soaps rely on the same characters over and over? Y&R especially seems to do well keeping their vets frontburner, and staying on top.

Well, maybe it's because their characters are allowed to explore other relationships. They aren't locked into supercouples. Their fans don't always call for the same old stories and, thus, the writers aren't so limited. Not just that but they have a network behind them that supports them. Y&R has a great lead-in with TPIR and that sets up B&B with a great lead-in in Y&R. Not only that but, with the exception of LML last year, they have a EP that doesn't interfere in the writing all the time (well, Brad Bell is HW and EP on B&B but I digress) and the shows commit to story and stick with it to the end.

Y&R and B&B attract alot of general fans. Fans who watch merely for drama. You don't see that many supercouple fanbases at Y&R and they aren't quite so vocal either. How many times have Victor/Nikki split and moved on? Sharon/Nick? They just tell good stories. Period. They don't worry about what fans think all the time. They tell the story and hope the fan comes for the ride and, most times, they do. That is what soaps used to be. Days in the 80's and 90's was just like that. It just went for whatever story brought the drama, not what pleased fanbase A and fanbase B or fans of this person or fans of that person.

It is PURE BULLSHIT to say that fans keep calling for the same stories, to say that having supercouples is a negative thing and that that somehow limits what a writer can do. That thinking is what has destroyed this show. The same creative bankruptcy that says that you can't marry a couple on a soap because that spells storyline dead zone. But ask any fan and they can come up with all kinds of story.

It not so much that you can't have supercouples it's a matter of having too many at one time. For one thing they have bigger salaries than most and there is just not enough screen time for each supercouple to be front burner. Or to have indepth storylines or different storylines for that matter ... how many times does Hope need to be kidnapped? How many times do these supercouples need to remarry??? They break up, they make up, they break-up, they make up over and over again. Currently there are too many on Days!

It's not the supercouple's fault that the writers can't come up with anything but repeated kidnappings and remarriages. I agree there are too many currently on the show. S&K don't have a story so perhaps they should have been the ones cut, along with other characters. You just don't cut your biggest star.

I've always said, if I wanted to watch Y&R, I'd watch Y&R. I chose to watch Days because Days had John and Marlena and not only that, it was how they were written. They were nice people. They tried to do the right thing. They made mistakes and paid for them and always took responsibility. Whether they were together or apart, they were best friends and cared deeply for each other. Days was unique. Days had a unique audience. Yes, many have stopped watching, but maybe that's because TPTB didn't appreciate the audience they had, who knows. Believe me, if Days had been written like Y&R, I wouldn't still be around. I watched Y&R for a few years, got fed up and turned it off. Days was my kind of soap opera. And no, I didn't ask to be a fan, it just happened and I never watched out of habit. And I never asked for the same old stories. All I wanted was to recognize the characters I fell in love with.

Anyone wo said Days didn't listen to the fans in the 80's doesn't really know the show from that era.

When they stopped listening to the fans was in the early 90's starting with the Kayla/Shane pairing.

One example: the writer had every intention of pairing Marlena and Chris but the fans wanted Marlena and John.

Days shoved off nearly ALL the vets in the 80's, much like it hear. I doubt they listened to the old fans then, either, and also there wasn't the internet. Back then, RoJohn, Roman, Bo, Hope, Steve, Kayla, Shane, Kim, the Bradys...THEY were the newbies. The difference with them I think was that there was better writing.

Anyone wo said Days didn't listen to the fans in the 80's doesn't really know the show from that era.

When they stopped listening to the fans was in the early 90's starting with the Kayla/Shane pairing.

One example: the writer had every intention of pairing Marlena and Chris but the fans wanted Marlena and John.

Days shoved off nearly ALL the vets in the 80's, much like it hear. I doubt they listened to the old fans then, either, and also there wasn't the internet. Back then, RoJohn, Roman, Bo, Hope, Steve, Kayla, Shane, Kim, the Bradys...THEY were the newbies. The difference with them I think was that there was better writing.

Anyone wo said Days didn't listen to the fans in the 80's doesn't really know the show from that era.

When they stopped listening to the fans was in the early 90's starting with the Kayla/Shane pairing.

One example: the writer had every intention of pairing Marlena and Chris but the fans wanted Marlena and John.

Days shoved off nearly ALL the vets in the 80's, much like it hear. I doubt they listened to the old fans then, either, and also there wasn't the internet. Back then, RoJohn, Roman, Bo, Hope, Steve, Kayla, Shane, Kim, the Bradys...THEY were the newbies. The difference with them I think was that there was better writing.

Do you mean the Valentine's massacre??

it was only some vets and that writer was quickly fired.

More than just the Valentine's Day Massacre. Doug, Julie, etc etc. and the 80's were when the Hortons pretty much were destroyed.

Anyone wo said Days didn't listen to the fans in the 80's doesn't really know the show from that era.

When they stopped listening to the fans was in the early 90's starting with the Kayla/Shane pairing.

One example: the writer had every intention of pairing Marlena and Chris but the fans wanted Marlena and John.

Days shoved off nearly ALL the vets in the 80's, much like it hear. I doubt they listened to the old fans then, either, and also there wasn't the internet. Back then, RoJohn, Roman, Bo, Hope, Steve, Kayla, Shane, Kim, the Bradys...THEY were the newbies. The difference with them I think was that there was better writing.

Do you mean the Valentine's massacre??

it was only some vets and that writer was quickly fired.

More than just the Valentine's Day Massacre. Doug, Julie, etc etc. and the 80's were when the Hortons pretty much were destroyed.

i disagree. Susan Flannery left on her own and the recasts never had any traction. Suzanne Rogers had big stories through the late 80's with John Clarke.

There were plenty of young ortons throughtout the 80's in major stories.