Mariners, Yankees Swap Pineda For Montero

The Mariners needed hitting, the Yankees needed pitching. The two teams addressed each other's needs in a blockbuster trade of young stars, as right-handers Michael Pineda and Jose Campos will go to the Bronx in exchange for catcher/DH Jesus Montero and righty Hector Noesi. Both teams confirmed the trade this afternoon.

The Yankees re-signed C.C. Sabathia and Freddy Garcia this winter, but those moves amounted to just standing pat with a rotation that (after Sabathia) contained several question marks. In Pineda, however, the Yankees now have one of the top young arms in the game and one who has already showed he can perform at the Major League level. Pineda (pictured) posted a 3.74 ERA, a 3.15 K/BB ratio and a 9.1 K/9 rate in 28 starts last season, earning an All-Star appearance and a fifth-place finish in the AL Rookie Of The Year vote. Pineda recently turned 23 and is under club control through 2016.

Campos, 19, is another intriguing young arm. John Sickels of Minor League Ball ranked Campos as the fifth-best prospect in Seattle's system going into 2012, noting that while Campos' secondary pitches need some polish, "his upside is very high, he throws hard, and already throws strikes." Campos is coming off a dominant campaign in low Class-A ball in 2011, posting a 2.32 ERA and a whopping 6.54 K/BB in 14 starts. Joel Sherman of the New York Post hears from an NL executive that if Campos was in this year's amateur draft, "he is [a] no-doubt top-10 pick" (Twitter link).

Montero was a top-four prospect in both 2010 and 2011 according to Baseball America and the 22-year-old showed why when he posted a .996 OPS in 69 September plate appearances. Montero was drafted as a catcher but questions about his defensive capabilities had several pundits projecting his long-term future to be at designated hitter or first base. In New York, these spots will be blocked by Mark Teixeira and Alex Rodriguez for the next several seasons, but the bat-starved Mariners have plenty of room in the lineup. Montero immediately projects as Seattle's probable #3 hitter, splitting time between DH and catcher, and it's easy to see Montero hitting behind Dustin Ackley for years to come.

Montero was very nearly a Mariner in July 2010, as he headlined a prospect package the Yankees were ready to send to Seattle for Cliff Lee. The M's, however, pulled out of that trade and ended up dealing Lee to the Rangers. Yankees management was reportedly upset that the Mariners pulled out of the deal at the last minute, but whatever hard feelings existed between the two clubs clearly weren't enough to keep them from doing business 18 months later.

Noesi appeared in 30 games for New York last season (two of them starts), posting a 4.47 ERA and a 2.05 K/BB ratio. Noesi turns 25 later this month and amassed impressive numbers over six seasons in the Yankee farm system. Noesi should get a shot at filling Pineda's rotation spot in Seattle and could blossom at pitcher-friendly Safeco Field.

Seattle are idiots! Trading Fister and Pineda with in ten months will devastate the franchise for years to come. Had they kept both, and signed C.J. Wilson, or even Kuroda, along with Hernandez,they could have had a real shot this season. At this point, they may as well trade Felix,too.

Seattle has among the deepest pitching in the minor leagues of all of baseball. They have Hultzen, Paxton, Taijuan Walker, just to name a few. They are loaded with pitching. They get back Noesi who can take Pineda’s place in the lineup. I think this was a fair trade for both sides, with both teams addressing needs. This really could turn out either way, depending on future development of Montero/Pineda which is almost impossible to predict

with all the pitching comeing up they could afford to trade pineda. they had felix,lee,bedard,fister and vargas at one time ans couldnt win with that beacause they had no offense. trade needed to be done.

No, left field is the issue. This is is why Beltre, Sexson, etc. have struggled. It has always been a theory among Mariners fans that a left-handed power hitter would do very well, we’ve just failed to ever get anything better than Raul Ibanez.

That will NOT happen. Prince is likely to go to Texas so then they can flip Moreland for Garza straight up. It’s as fair as trade as you can get. plus Rizzo won’t be ready til 2014 and by then Moreland can be flipped in 2013 for pitchers. Honestly it’s a no brainier for Texas to try to get Fielder to a 5-6 yr contract, with options for a 7th and maybe an 8th yr, with an opt out clause at year 4.

Of course they can do better the Rangers would need to throw in a prospect or two. Plus the Rangers would be potentially a 110+ win team with Garza and Yu on their pitching Staff along with their best guy who will easily get 70 mil on the Open market with Derrek Holland. If they got Prince in that line up they will automatically be better then Anaheim not that they aren’t better without him because half the Angels lineup the players are at least 30 Hunter, Wells and Pujols are all 34 and older.

Who trades a 22 year old pitcher with tremendous upside. It would be a different story if he was a prospect but at 22 years old and having a 3.74 ERA in your first big league season? Seattle got hosed in my opinion. Huge win for the Yankees.

A team that has one of the most dominant pitchers in the game. A team that just added an Ace from Japan and a team that has 4 FOUR potential front like starters comming up… Not to mention they need offense,,,, thats who makes that trade. And by you saying the yankees made a “huge win” it shows you dont know much about baseball and ZERO about Montero.

Pineda established himself as a big league picther at 22 years old. They have 4 potential front line starters coming up? What happens if they crash and burn? They’re prospects which crash and burn all the time, they’re not established like Pineda was. I know a lot more about baseball then you my friend.

The Mariners have a lot of promising pitching and almost zero promising offense so I can understand the gamble. I was admittedly horrified when I got my ESPN text alert telling me Pineda was gone, but the more I think about it, the more I’m comfortable with the move. I keep thinking to myself, maybe we just found the next Jay Buhner (in terms of finding a helluva bat from the yanks)…

pineda is established w/ 1 season? which he tired towards the end, has serious trouble w/ Left handed batters and is moving from pitchers paradise in a weak division to launching pad in baseballs best division, expect serious step back for Pineda stats, but increase in wins

See I would like to believe you but why with the Yankees being so old would they be so willing to always include their “top” prospect Montero? I think this kid is a huge bust as a prospect. Pineda has such huge upside. Very bad deal for Seattle.

You’re calling him a bust when all he’s done at the major league level is post a .996 OPS in 18 games. I agree that the Yankees came out winners in the deal, but your brash conclusions seem a bit short-sighted.

NYY has a massive budget that can afford to put star players into spots that they can ill-afford to let star prospects grow into. If they would have put Montero in the DH spot, they could run the risk of clogging a position that gives them a lot of flexibility (DH) while risking Montero’s trade value if he comes up and doesn’t perform well in an intense situation. SEA is taking a huge risk in that he’ll pay off – one that I wouldn’t take especially after seeing Smoak – but they were desperate for a player with a huge upside.

The Yankees will benefit from this trade much more quickly than Seattle. With the Yankees Pineda will be a 15-16 game winner. Adding this bat to the Seattle lineup will not replace the wins that he provided last year. Pitching and good defense produce wins. As a Rays fan I hate this trade because it will make the Yankees even more difficult to beat.

Dude….”every single trade”? Let’s analyze the pitchers (never mentioned in a trade for a hitter) that the Yanks have been willing to “give him away” for.

Santana…Halladay….Lee…Hernandez.

Gee, Yanks really don’t think much of him.

Pitchers they were unwilling to deal him for but teams were rumored to demand.

Garza, Gio, Danks, Greinke, Liriano and Jiminez.

I am a HUGE Montero fan and dealing him must be difficult.This trade could easily end up bad for the Yanks but I give Cashman credit for holding out as long as he did and getting a pitcher with Pineda’s age and upside for him.

I’m also a fan of Noesi and expect him to be a good mlb pitcher but we didn’t have space for him and Campos looks like he can be a good prospect too.

The Yankees will benefit from this trade much more quickly than
Seattle. With the Yankees Pineda will be a 15-16 game winner. Adding
this bat to the Seattle lineup will not replace the wins that he
provided last year. Pitching and good defense produce wins. As a Rays
fan I hate this trade because it will make the Yankees even more
difficult to beat.

Pineda last year was worth 3.4 WAR. A catcher who has a league average bat is worth about 3 WAR. I have no doubt that Montero will be at least an average bat and Seattle will not see much fall off if any.

Wait what? When exactly were they “willing to give up” Montero? Oh, you mean for that scrub Cliff Lee? That’s the only trade I recall where he was included in. And Cliff Lee is a beast! You should know if you’re an Ms fan. The reason they DIDN’T give up Montero for Garza, Gio, etc proves the opposite of your point. So… now what were you saying?

Carlos Gonzalez was traded twice while being a stud prospect. Carlos Santana was also traded for Casey Blake. Adrian Gonzalez, Cameron Maybin, Elvis Andrus and Adam Jones were a few more that were traded as young players.

Being the centerpiece of a trade for a top young pitcher hardly constitutes the Yankees having doubts about him or giving him away. It takes value to get value and smart teams trade the valuable pieces they don’t have room for on the big league roster.

Montero is a DH. The Yankees can use him at DH the next year or two, but they’d be best served keeping the spot open. They traded from a position of strength for a position of need. Seattle did the same thing. Both teams got better.

i am a yankees fan but i think you cant judge this trade just yet at first hand the yankees look like they got the upper hand i think montero showed last year that he is for real and right now he is the mariner power threat

Smoak was absolutely tearing it up last season until his father passed away in late April, at which point his production hit a brick wall. I’m almost 100% confident that we’ll be hearing his name with regularity in 2012.

It was a sarcastic remark referring to the last time we will ever see your avatar…

…As far as the trade goes, it can impact both clubs accordingly. The Mariners are stacked with pitching and need offense desperately. I don’t know if Montero will have a huge impact on their lineup though. That’s my concern, and I was really impressed with Pineda last season.

I’d love it if I were a Yankee fan. It stinks to give up such a good young player in Montero, but you’re getting another great young player in Pineda and he fills an area of much greater need for the Yankees than Montero does. The Yankees are one of the best offensive teams in the game with-or-without Montero, but their pitching was definitely lagging behind their offense, and this helps that area quite a lot.

That was honestly my first thought too, but I only see that happening if Fielder is forced to take a one year deal. A-Rod is going to need time at DH and would need to be there full time before a long term deal for Fielder would end.

I’m think maybe they bring Chavez back to split time at 3B/DH with A-Rod (or something similar to that).

Yeah…..wow. I mean I think Montero is going to be a hell of a hitter and I DO have an emotional attachment towards him but thank GOD they didn’t trade him for an over the hill pitcher. Still, Pineda has issues as well. He’s a two pitch pitcher who will need to come up with another pitch to be a FOR once hitters become acquainted with him.

Why did you say Rangers and Angels, and not Oakland to prove your point? Rangers have an excellent offense, and the Angels is pretty intimidating with Pujols. Oakland’s offense sucks, but the Rays’ aren’t exactly frightening either (though probably underrated)

well I guess I can’t say so for sure until we find out who the other included players are but pitchers are always a risk to burn out and Montero has shown some serious potential. Why not just throw Banuelos or Betances into the rotation next season and give Montero a shot as a young hitter in our lineup

Seattle fan checking in… That stud pitcher is going to need to work on that 5.12 2nd Half ERA – You may also want to check out the HOME and AWAY splits on the entire season. Don’t get me wrong. Pineda will be missed but you need to do a little research.

Because the Yankees offense is one of the best either way, and they need pitching (and Banuelos and Betances haven’t shown that they are ready to handle the majors). Even with Pineda there is plenty of room in the rotation for one of Banuelos or Betances if they force their way into the rotation.

This is true. However, I would’ve liked for them to keep Montero around to replace Martin after the season at catcher. People complain about his defense, but we won four championships with a not defensively sound catcher, and Montero looks to have a higher ceiling at the plate than Posada had. Oh well… I’m very happy to have a young power arm in my rotation though, don’t get me wrong

Montero has more upside at the plate than Posada, but according to most people who are paid to know these things he wont even be Posada behind the plate. In the words of Kevin Goldstein “his natural position is DH.”

But what do you do with him when A-Rod has to play DH? And while those other pitchers would be as good, they would also be infinitely more expensive than Pineda, and by all accounts the Yankees are trying to get under the luxury tax by 2014.

ya, i thought it was 15 i wouldn’t of minded montero as a catcher for a yr as i think arod can man 3rd for two more seasons. He can be signed in 5 years and would still be in his prime but that’s so far. I’m liking the trade better by the minute though andhaving that dh hole will help.

after a comment like this, i figure u havent seen pineda pitch. just as montero, pineda has the potential to become a superstar player. this trade seems completely fair. the mariners need a bat and the yanks need a pitcher, so hard to understand?? easy thing

Only the Mariners ALSO gave up another top quality pitching prospect as well. Pineda for Montero straight across. That should have been all it takes. Bad deal for the Mariners. Yankees got their revenge looks like.

I want to wait and see where campos will rank in the yankees system i dont love the trade but it was fair and ill miss montero though. If Pineda was a prospect he’d probably be a top ten prospect which makes it a little easier.

campos is a high-ceiling guy which is what you always want to have, but he hasn’t seen high-A yet so he’s kind of a wildcard. pineda is the prize here. hopefully the yankees will treat him like a prospect and not expect him to come in and be a #2 in the AL East

Damn i’m pissed they traded Montero, but I get it. Pineda is a great arm still under control for 5 more years. A lot will depend on the other players, since Montero for Pineda is fair straight up. Sad Montero won’t be mashing in New York though

Yankees would definitely do it. I promise you (unfortunately) the yankees will end up with fielder. Hal is too trigger happy to not go after someone, when they will probably hit 50 home runs per year in that stadium.

Can’t tell if it’s that good of a trade for either team. The Yankees basically traded a dh but he has the potential to be a great bat. And they got so far a one hit wonder going from an extreme pitchers park to a pretty good hitters park. Could be great for both teams could be a bust for both teams. Where does montero play
For the m’s catcher( hope not) first? Trade smoak?

Wow, I don’t know if I’m more surprised by the trade itself or the fact that Heyman was right?

Seriously though, great trade for both sides. The Yankees already had more than enough offense and had a big need for (cheap) pitching, while the Mariners desperately needed offense, hopefully for the Mariners sake they got a couple other pieces from the Yankees.

I also hope this will push the Red Sox to give in and sign one of Oswalt or Kuroda for next year.

I don’t know about this from the Mariners stand point… Yes, Montero is a beast, but I can’t help but wonder whether or not part of that was his lineup. He won’t have nearly the same amount of protection playing for Seattle AND Safeco ranked 26th in runs for ball park factors…. Yankees Stadium was 6th.

I don’t know how I feel about this trade. Pineda is a young power arm and Jesus is well “baby Jesus”. I was looking forward to seeing Jesus in the Bronx, but I will settle with Pineda winning 12 Cy Youngs lmao

You needed starting pitching help pretty badly. Now you likely won’t have to waste money on EJax and you now have a long term number two starter. DH’s are replaceable. You’ll likely need it for ARod the next 7 years any way.

I think I’d rather wait a year for guys like Phelps, Warren, Banuelos and Betances and Campos isn’t close to the majors as guys like Stoneburner and pals. It’s not that I hate the trade or that it’s unfair, it’s just extremely upsetting to have a prospect you follow for three years traded, on Friday the 13th too.

Plus, I still have a grudge over Zduriencik for shopping our offer for Lee. Look at the Cubs and Red Sox. They disagree about minor details, they sort it later. What’s so wrong about taking a PTBNL or two instead of Nunez?

Curious to see the other names involved, but if everything else is even, great deal by the Yanks. Not necessarily a bad deal by the Mariners, as they need offense, but I would have rather have stuck with Pineda another year and let him try to raise his value even more.

so im guessing pineda slots into either the #2 or #3 spot behind or in front of nova, as a yankee fan, it’s sad to see montero go but the yankees need pitching, and getting a pitcher with such high ceiling in pineda, it makes me even more excited than when the yanks only had montero and no good pitcher after cc. hope he does good in ny, he has the potential, and as for montero, good luck as well.

hector noesi? i dont know much about the mariners system so how is campos viewed as in seattle? as for noesi, he’s been pitching pretty good as of late, possibly emerging as one of the top young players for the yanks system as soon as next year.

Hmm, you’re probably right. My disappointment with Noesi isn’t really about Noesi himself, but I was hoping that the extra players in the trade would help balance it out a little. In my opinion Pineda should have drawn a better return than just Montero and Noesi would have certainly helped but he was pretty much canceled out by the inclusion of Campos, who has similar value.

This is…omg this just greatly upsets me…
I was looking forward to a great career from Montero in the Bronx…
This…I was looking forward to him for the longest time and now this!!! WTH! They could have done something else like Oswalt for 1 YEAR! and let the whole Banuelos/Betances combo another year to improve… who knows if Pineda can keep up what he did in Seattle…if anything he is overrated to me. A FAIR trade to me would have been Felix for Montero. Not Pineda!

Pineda is a great pitcher but he comes along with some injury history. The Mariners have DEEP talent when it comes to young pitching and they just added their new ace from Japan. Montero is VERY young but has raked at every level he has been at. Im interested in seeing who else is comming with Montero.

I feel like this means the M’s aren’t going after Fielder for sure. I hope this means they’re feeling Paxton is ready. I feel even with Montero’s poor defense I feel he’ll be more comfortable as a backstop then as a DH.

Pineda really is the boost NY needs, this makes them a lot scarier, great deal on both ends.

With the Yankees freeing up space in the DH spot, who will take his position? I’m curious if the Yanks are going to go big for bat. Maybe Fielder is a longshot but what about Cespedes? They could put Swisher in the DH spot. omg no one knows whats gonna happen!!!! people help me out here, who do u think the yanks will get to dh?

I didn’t see this coming AT ALL! I thought the mariners were loaded with catching prospects?! If Pineda turns out to be the stud many think he will be, I love this move for the Yankees! Yankees can buy hitters whenever they want, getting young dominant pitching is tough to do.

Highway robbery for the Yankees IMO. Pineda has ace stuff and has already had a pretty good season. I can see why Mariners made the trade as they have loads of pitching upcoming and hitters like Montero are pretty damn hard to acquire but nonetheless, he is a DH and I just don’t see the value in giving a potential ace for a DH. Campos is a pretty good prospect too. I guess this means Mariners are out of Fielder sweepstakes?

I said he is a potential stadium and a great pitcher can pitch anywhere.

Pineda also gave more homeruns at home which is considered a pitchers park. Maybe Yankees stadium does hurt him a bit but I think people overstate the whole ballpark affects on a pitcher. If anything, facing AL East will hurt him more but he has great stuff, he is young and could be a cost controlled ace for the Yankees for years to come.

Can’t say I disagree but he’s had a full season and it’s safe to say, we both think he was fantastic. There are always concerns with pretty much every player but Pineda showed that potential to be a great pitcher. He will most likely always be a 2 pitch pitcher and even with that, he can get by being a good #2/3 pitcher but if he can develop that change to be just average, he could be an ace and he is pretty young to think he could develop it. Definitely not a finished product but I love the upside and he is a good pitcher already with a high K rate and low walk rate which is something you rarely ever see with a pitcher in his rookie season.

I could also argue there are more concerns with Montero since he hasn’t had a full season to show you what he’s really got. He could be a great hitter or he could end up struggling. Every young player is a risk but I like the risk Yankees took because they filled a need, and sold high on Montero (thanks to his September call-up). They got a high upside prospect in return as well.

It also makes me wonder why Seattle didn’t take the Montero package for Lee.

I just don’t get how the Mariners thought this was a good idea. They basically sold low on a guy who could’ve brought back more than either Latos or Gio only a year from now. Terrible trade for Seattle.

Pineda, Nova, Hughes, Banuelos, Betances, possibly Joba and some long shots with Warren, Phelps and Mitchell at AAA again means the Yanks might have a really good, young and cheap rotation in the next year or two.

This is not it though. There has got to be another shoe yet to fall with CC, Pineda, Nova, Hughes, Garcia and Burnett in the rotation. I can’t see Cashman sticking Hughes in the bullpen since we already have Mo, Soriano, Robertson and Logan there. That would be a waste as he would basically be the long man.

I think the biggest winner in this is Hector Noesi. He gets out of the AL East and the Yankee launchpad and into the caverns of Safeco. Biggest losers are Montero and Pineda for the opposite reason. As for the teams… looks good for both.

The fact that anyone would call this a bad deal for the Yankees amuses me. Tremendous deal for the Yankees. Do you have any idea how much having no defensive value hurts a player? Even if Montero hits like you think he will (no sure thing) hes just not that valuable. Pineda is TORP.

Yankees just got 5 years of cost controlled power in the rotation. Add to that Banuelos, Nova and potentially Betances, signing Cain 1 year from now. Ruh row. You can bet your chickens, AJ, Garcia, Hughes are all gone next year.

In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if one is moved by the end of the weekend. You can’t send any of them down to the minors and none (other than Hughes) is bullpen material. Mark it, one is gone in the next 3 days.

If Montero can provide you with 30 hrs and a .350 OBP then that has tons of value, even if he’s a DH. People are acting as if being a DH somehow mitigates his offensive productions. I’m sure the M’s won’t care where their offense comes from.

All the same, could be a good deal for both. On paper, I like the logic the Yanks used. We’ll see.

It’s not that he has no value, it’s that it’s just not as much as it should be. Pineda still can be an ace, and those guys aren’t easy to come by. I just think they could’ve gotten more for him. So on paper, appears the Yankees got the better hand here. So much for the Yankees never dealing with the Mariner’s huh? I still see it as a huge risk for both sides though, but it’s a risk worth taking for both of them.

Yankees had to trade Montero at some point. ARod is breaking down and will be the DH very soon and they cannot move Texeria and his ciontract not to mention Montero does not seem to be a MLB catcher. He had no where to play so the Yankees did very well by him and themselves. He’ll get a chance to play everyday and the Yanks get a very cheap young pitcher with huge upside. Like any trade only time will tell.

The Yankees did. Noesi doesn’t have the ceiling, but he’s much closer and safer. Campos is extremely raw and odds are he will flame out. He has top of the rotation ability, but the volatility in pitching is what it is.

I can see this trade being good for Jesus Montero and Hector Noesi—each gets to be a starter for a Mariners club now, while Russell Martin is firmly entrenched as the catcher for the Yankees, even if they are sacrificing offense at that position.

I say the Yankees won this trade big time. Pineda is a very, very awesome pitcher with a super nasty slider and a huge K rate, but he doesn’t get many groundballs and that might translate to more home runs in the smaller confines of Yankee Stadium, but he’s young and can adjust.

Montero is a great young power prospect and the bat might play well in the spacious Safeco Field, but he likely won’t stay behind the plate and I don’t see a DH providing the same value as a pitcher as talented as Pineda unless he hits like Frank Thomas, and he’s no Frank Thomas.

Additionally, Campos > Noesi, so advantage Yankees. BUT, if any or all of James Paxton, Taijuan Walker and Danny Hultzen pan out in some way or another, I can see this trade working out for Seattle. Even then, for a team that plays in a pitchers park in a top heavy division, I wouldn’t be so swift to trade from such an appreciable position of strength to maybe be a third place team behind Anaheim.

They were born on different days, have different names, different parents, different DNA, and are completely different people. Oh, and one of them has proven they are Frank Thomas and one hasn’t done squat yet. Besides that, he’s Frank Thomas.

The only way we will truly ever know if this trade was fair or not is how the players traded perform on the field. This certainly opens up the DH role for the Yanks if they want Fielder and we know they can afford him. Im sure Chavez and AROD could also split time DHing if they dont sign Fielder but Fielder and Mark *Tex* could also share time at first…who knows. Interesting trade if nothing else…something to talk about , something new at least besides the daily Theo Epstein discussing the Cubs, the LA Dodgers ownership and the Red Sox need for pitching news..Nothing like fresh news , a trade ! 🙂

You should acquaint yourself with Gary Sanchez, since ‘Gaby’ Sanchez played for the Marlins. Also, Sanchez will very likely move off the position. Romine isn’t a real catcher imo, but Montero wasn’t either.

It’s the other two players, Noesi and Campos, that make the trade more interesting. On the whole, it makes sense for both teams. If Montero goes .280, 25 and 90 and Pineda matches his qualitative numbers from last year, both teams will make out well. Noesi puts an upside for Seattle. Campos is very young. It fits with the rest of the Yankee narrative-which is that they don’t want to spring for 10Million+for an established starter (or whatever Boras is holding out for Jackson) I guess we will see.

Well, my bad, they are apparently signing Kuroda as well, which makes this a little odd.

How does this sound, 4-6 with a 4.40 ERA away from Safeco, 2-1 with a 4.67 ERA against AL East opponents (minus the Yankees), 1-4 with a 5.12 ERA after the All-Star Break, and has never pitched in Yankee Stadium yet.

Go look at his runners on/RISP numbers. If he is front line and oh so amazing he would not have a .250 opponent batting average with runners on! If he is as “dominant” as people say he is he would have it down around maybe .220 at the minimum.

how can u start throwing in stats after just 28 starts? when players are 22, they usually look more into minor league stats and scouting reports than just those 1st year stats. just shut up uve got no idea what ure saying

Then again he is a 22 year old power pitcher who has already proven he can be dominant. Feel kind of sad Montero is leaving with that monster bat , however, I think both teams did solid in this trade to satisfy their needs.

My initial reaction as a Yankee fan was anger at this deal, and i always go with my gut reaction. With that said the deal at second, third, and fourth glance does seem to be in favor of the Yanks (if there is a winner)……I forget which analyst it was that said “A good trade is when neither side is fully satisfied”. That seems to be what we have here…

Jack Z is a terrible GM. He had the opportunity already to obtain Montero and he blew it. He would’ve had both Pineda and Montero this year instead of a lame duck Smoak. He got fleeced in this deal. Noesi is a worse prospect that Campos, for christ sakes! How is Montero, who will probably be a career DH and hasn’t proven himself at the ML level, worth Pineda who has already proven he’s at least a solid #2 in any rotation?

If Z was smart he would have Pineda, Morrow, Fister, and Banuelos headlining the rotation next year and also have Montero on the team. Instead he still has King Felix (who is certainly awesome), but they are not going to win with him on this team.

They just improved their chances considerably. Admittedly, at a pretty big cost giving up Pineda and Campos, who I was very excited about. However, needs were addressed for both teams and that’s the big picture.

Apparently, you are not aware of how wins are accumulated in baseball. Also to project Montero as some sort of offensive superstar in 2012 is a bit silly. The Pujols type breakouts are pretty rare. I think you should be tempering your projections. Hosmer’s 2011 is probably the best case scenario for 2012. He was worth 1.6 Wins (link to fangraphs.com).

Not to mention the death of his Father in April or May? Personally, I think Montero’s arrival will take the pressure off of Smoak. I know a lot of M’s fans want wins right now and even more want Jack Z’s head but this ball team is shaping up nicely.

As a Jays fan this is a significant blow. What kind of dimwitted GM trades an elite pitching prospect who’s 6’7 and 22 for a DH in today’s baseball? I’m not suggesting Montero isn’t a big time bat but that’s never a good trade.

I am an Angels fan and I know as of now the Rangers are the team to beat as they won last year. But as far as pitching staffs go I think the Angels are better even if they get Darvish cause he is yet to be proven in the mlb.

Not feeling this deal for the Yankees . I don’t think Pineda was worth giving up Montero AND Noesi. I don’t know much about the other Mariners prospect in the deal which tells me he must not be anything special which furthers my feelings of displeasure with this trade .

Honestly, I was more irritated with Jose Campos being traded than I was with Pineda. That’s not to say Pineda isn’t a decent pitcher; I just felt Pineda/Montero straight up was a more fair deal. I think the deal will prove great for both sides in the long run.

I used to defend Z but after this trade he needs to be fired along with Chuck Armstrong and Howard Lincoln. Felix should have been the one traded were in a rebuild and you trade away a young pitcher you control for the next 5 seasons? ROFL such a Mariner thing to do.

Here is how it went down (my guess)
1.Yankees call asking about Felix
2.Mariners say they would have to be blown away.
3.Yankees offer package similar to package offered for lee, agaian montero headlines it.
4.Mariners decline
4a.Mariners say they are still interested in aquiring Montero
5.Yankees offer Montero for Pineda
6.Yankees/Mariners agree in principle to deal
7.a prospect is added to each side
8.Comm. Office aproves
9.Story published

safe to assume right?
(only thing i would change is which team was interested in aquiring who)

More like:
1. Mariners talk to Fielder
2. Fielder says no to Seattle
3. Seattle goes to plan B
4. Jack Z calls NY dangling Pineda for Montero and back end starter
5. NY only OK’s the move if they receive a top 10 prospect for said starter
6. Seattle throws in a prospect from one of their strengths- young starting pitching
7. Michael Pineda’s Dad is so excited about his son going to the Bronx he tells his entire neighborhood
8. One of Pineda’s neighbors phones a columnist in Boca Raton, FL telling them Pineda’s Dad’s information
9. Columnist in Boca Raton verifies the information then tweets
10. Story published

Noesi is a luxury they Yankees don’t need now that they are likely moving Hughes and Nova to the pen. It will be interesting to see if they try to move Burnett for pennies (like REAL pennies) on the dollar.

I agree with all of you that Nova is better than Garcia and Burnett, but I just think that you let them work out in April and May. Garcia probably doesnt last (injury or ineffectiveness) and Burnett probably also doesnt (ineffectiveness). Nova will definitely have a spot by the end and depending on Hughes stuff, he might too (or we will be read to move to Banuelos or Betances).

Pineda is NOT more valuable as a trade chip than Felix Hernandez. That’s crazy talk. It was stated that the Yankees were willing to give up Montero, Betances, Banuelos and more for Felix, but the Mariners wouldn’t budge and opted instead to trade Pineda. Felix is a proven ace who has the ability to pitch great in any stadium against any team. Pineda is a two-pitch pitcher who will only ever be in that discussion if his changeup ever develops.

Your wrong. Felix isnt cheap anymore. Now the Yankees can go sign Cain, Hamels, or Greinke next offseason for $18M per (cost of Felix) AND have Pineda. Felix is awesome, but replaceable by a team like the Yankees.

You’re crazy if you think Felix’s cost makes him less valuable than Pineda. Every team knew what his current cost would be when they were (unsuccessfully) attempting to trade for him last year. You can’t honestly think some team intended to flip him at the deadline or the offseason if they ever acquired him. If Felix was traded right now, the Mariners wouldn’t eat any of his salary and would land considerably more than what they got for Pineda.

What are you talking about flipping Felix? I agree that was never going to happen. Also, just because Seattle wouldn’t need to eat his salary doesnt mean that he is more valuable than Pineda. Felix is still below value, but 6 years of Pineda on the current contract can save a team $40M by the time it is done (that could be spend on other players). Felix is going to save teams maybe $9M over the remainder of his contract.

The first two years of Felix’s contract were extremely team-friendly. Any team that would have potentially traded for him would have had it in mind that his contract increases considerably, and you made it sound as though Pineda was more valuable than Felix because of Felix’s contract when the Yankees were dangling Montero, Betances, Banuelos + more at the Mariners for Felix, and the Mariners still wouldn’t do it. On the contrary to your theory, the Mariners acquired Montero for Pineda, which obviously makes Pineda a less valuable trade chip than Felix would have potentially been, because Felix is a true ace and a proven commodity despite his contract. Pineda isn’t anything more than a 3 without a good changeup, yet you make it sound like he is by saying he’s more valuable than Felix, which is absolutely ridiculous.

I am lost as to what you are talking about. You seem to think that teams dont have budgets. In a vaccum Felix is CLEARLY better than Pineda. But when taking into consideration that teams cannot accumulate a roster of 25 guys worth $20M a piece, Pineda is more valuable than Felix. It is not a debate it is a fact. I dont understand why you cannot comprehend the concept of value.

I’m not saying that. I’m saying that Felix, as a trade chip, is much more valuable than Pineda as a trade chip, as evidenced by Cashman’s willingness to deal Montero, Banuelos & Betances + more for him. I always said it would be more likely that Pineda was traded than Felix.

The first two years of Felix’s contract were extremely team-friendly. Any team that would have potentially traded for him would have had it in mind that his contract increases considerably, and you made it sound as though Pineda was more valuable than Felix because of Felix’s contract when the Yankees were dangling Montero, Betances, Banuelos + more at the Mariners for Felix, and the Mariners still wouldn’t do it. On the contrary to your theory, the Mariners acquired Montero for Pineda, which obviously makes Pineda a less valuable trade chip than Felix would have potentially been, because Felix is a true ace and a proven commodity despite his contract. Pineda isn’t anything more than a 3 without a good changeup, yet you make it sound like he is by saying he’s more valuable than Felix, which is absolutely ridiculous.

Exactly. Felix has stated his desire to stay with the Seattle Mariners well beyond the end of his current contract, at least “5 years more.” There’s really not a lot of basis to automatically assume he won’t sign an extension.

When the Felix Hernandez contract expires at the end of the 2014 season, the Mariners could still have Danny Hultzen, James Paxton, Taijuan Walker, Blake Beaven and Esrasmo Ramirez (plus any pitcher the M’s addd in the interim).

Ok guys, don’t forget the second piece of the trade, the pitcher the yankees are sending over. We have seen plenty of average pitchers pitch pretty well in Safeco ie: Jason Vargas, Jarrod Washburn, Doug Fister.

He could fill in for Pineda nicely, if he can manage a 4.20 ERA (OR LOWER!)

Noesi is a solid pitcher, you wont be disappointed by him. Hes no ace, but i can see him as a definite 3-5 starter. He can definitely manage a 4.20 ERA in Safeco. You guys got yourself a nice pitcher, the kids been tearing it up in the Dominican. T

No not really. Your team bias seems to be blurring your common sense. You simply cant expect to contend in that division if you trade away young cheap, high end pitching for a slightly above average position player prospects with no real position. Jack z clearly doesn’t get it, despite having a clear example with tampa that the only way you can build a team to contend within high payrolls, is to draft and develop “high end, cost controllable pitching”

When you have young, cheap & high end pitching coming in on the way in Danny Hultzen, James Paxton & Taijuan Walker and any potential talent we could acquire in the draft/free agency, it is okay to deal from a surplus in order to address a need, and that’s what this trade did. I don’t love the deal, nor do I hate. Pineda is nothing more than a 3 if he never develops a changeup, and in bandbox Yankee stadium, he’ll get hammered. Montero, on the other hand, has opposite field power and could drastically improve the Mariners’ anemic offense. It’s not the end of the world. Plus, I seriously question why you compared the Mariners to the Rays. Rays 2011 payroll: 44,969,740, Mariners: 98,067,684.

So you justify trading a young stud pitcher for a prospect because you figure you can surely just aquire more talent in the draft? Or that your unproven pitching prospects who’ve never thrown a pitch in the bigs have potential? You got a lot to learn about baseball kid. Oh, and the mariners may have a higher payroll than the rays, but they aren’t yet in the same zip code as what L.A. and texas can spend. Remove your bias and you can start to see this team is on a long term goal of mediocrity

“So you justify trading a young stud pitcher for a prospect because you figure you can surely just acquire more talent in the draft?”

No, that was just one of the many reasons I listed. Funny how you focus solely on that and ignore the rest of what I said. The Mariners dealt from a surplus to continue to build towards a serviceable offense, something they have been lacking for years. Jesus Montero, a hitter with monster upside and power potential, compliments the hitters we’ve already got in place in Ackley, Smoak & Carp.

“Or that your unproven pitching prospects who’ve never thrown a pitch in the bigs have potential?”

Before knocking my baseball knowledge, you probably should have done your research; Pineda is far from “established.” He’s a two-pitch pitcher, albeit both of those pitches are nasty and could solidify him as a 3 for years to come, the fact of the matter is that he’s not going to turn into a true 1 or 2 starter unless he ever develops a decent changeup. Admittedly, he’s further along than Montero, but if you’ve seen the Mariners’ anemic offense, you’d realize that he’s well worth gambling on. Additionally, you have to take into account that Pineda will go from pitching half of his starts in one of the most pitching-friendly environments to bandbox Yankee Stadium, where popups sail out of.

I can’t refute your claim that none of Danny Hultzen, James Paxton or Taijuan Walker have thrown a pitch in the bigs, but I think it’s equally unfair that you assume they become busts/fail in the majors. In any case, pitching in Safeco isn’t going to hurt.

I question your knowledge because you flat out dismissed my opinion that seattle is heading in the wrong direction, which is based on not only this lopsided trade, but many of the transactions since jack took over as gm. As a brewer fan i would have loved to see jack succeed, but its just not gonna happen. The mans got two years, tops, maybe less.
I also find it amusing how you use the safeco card as your main stud, but completly ignore the fact that last year pineda’s fip was lower and he gave up fewer hr per flyball AWAY from safeco!

I question your knowledge because you flat out dismissed my opinion that seattle is heading in the wrong direction, which is based on not only this lopsided trade, but many of the transactions since jack took over as gm. As a brewer fan i would have loved to see jack succeed, but its just not gonna happen. The mans got two years, tops, maybe less.
I also find it amusing how you use the safeco card as your main stud, but completly ignore the fact that last year pineda’s fip was lower and he gave up fewer hr per flyball AWAY from safeco!

Maybe the bat will be worth it but in my mind the Yankees once again pulled the wool over the eyes of another club that shot itself in the foot. I would like to think that Pineda isn’t as good as he looked last year but he was just dominant in the games I watched.

I would have been fine with a Pineda, Montero swap; but i don’t know why the Mariners had to add in Campos. I think the Mariners got screwed there. A 19 year old pitcher for a 24 year old pitcher that posted a 4.47 era and a 1.51 whip. That’s pretty bad. Does anyone know anything about Noesi to change my opinion, because from there he seems like trash.

what a terrible deal for the Mariners. The A’s pull a haul for Cahil, the Pads do the same for Latos, and the M’s can only get a DH for Pineda. Horrid deal. Well Montero had an OPS of blah blah blah. Look at the lineup he hit in and the ball park. there are exactly no hitters in seattle that will give protection to a young hitter learning. Those Opposite field homers will be can-o-corns in seattle.

Who was the last Yankee prospect that did anything? Robinson Cano, and oh yeah, he is flourishing, he is one hell of a player, and guess who he plays for? The Yankees. Trading for a position player from the Yanks is like trading for a pitcher from the Braves. you have to question why the guy is available.

Prince Fielder could be residing in New York very soon. Him in that ball park, you could see an average season of 50 homers and 125 rbi. milwaukee is a great hitters park, but pop ups leave in NYC.

The main reason Montero was dealt is, as you said, he’s a DH. Perhaps he can be moved to 1st base, but either way, he didn’t have a spot on the Yankees. And Prince Fielder isn’t coming to the Yankees. I know the reputation precedes the organization, but the Yanks aren’t gonna commit $150 mil for a DH, a spot they need to be free occasionally for A-Rod and Jeter.

the reason he is available is because he doesnt have a postition, thus is a great trade chip.
ever think why Pineda was available. look at Hultzens fall league stats. look at Paxtons pitching stats. Montero will be more valuable to the Ms then Pineda would

a position the yankees have readily available. what team in their right mind (seattle clearly was not) would trade a kid with that stuff for, at most, a high end DH.

Seattle already has a history of making bad deals with their good pitching….hello doug fister. hultzens fall league stats huh…last time i checked MLB is not played in the Fall League.

Montero may in deed turn out to be a good hitter, but in no way will he bring what Pineda will brind to the Yanks, or M’s. The minimal return makes it a horrible trade, not the piece the recieved in return.

Dustin Ackley, Justin Smoak and Mike Carp have all showed promise, and Montero will probably be slotted somewhere between. Stating he’ll do terrible because of a lack of protection in the M’s lineup is misleading.

compared to the Gio, Latos deal, this trade is way too fair. Think the Mariners should have tried to get more in the deal, considering the market for young SP is way overblown right now. Still, I think both teams did well.

why in the world would you ever do that. Pineda has a much higher upside than Garza, and is much more controlable and cheaper. Pineda may be unproven, but his upside is phenomenal. This is a huge win for the Yankees. They will certainly give the kid rest when it is needed. Seattle really mismanaged his rookie campaign in the second half. They will have enough of a cushion to ensure he is rested and ready to go for the playoffs.

Why? Because Garza is battle tested and has proven he can handle the AL east. I like Pineda’s upside, but he is still raw. Garza gives the yanks a formidable 1-2 and makes them WS contenders not just playoff contenders.