On 21/08/2009 Sonic wrote:>Just the same as robertsonja is bitching purely>because HIS experience is being 'diminished' by 2 bolts. Can anyone else>see how stupid this is?

Bolts affect more than just robertsonja's experience.

>>If you spent more time climbing and less time complaining, maybe you could>actually climb higher grades and get on something worth spewing about.

I reckon robertsonja would say it has nothing to do with grades*.
~> and I would agree with him.

(*He clearly wrote on 12/08/09>The issue is that style of the climb has been degraded, it negates the need to build a trad anchor on a trad climb in a trad area. There are issues of vandalism, permanent defacing of the rock, style, degrading ethics, the question of why, it sets bad precedent, etc, etc.

& again on 20/08/09;>– the issue is retro-bolting belays for dubious reasons and precedents set).

Btw. To many folk climbing is more than about grades, and they can actually enjoy climbing on stuff well below their personal 'best' limits.
☻

On 21/08/2009 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:>Btw. To many folk climbing is more than about grades, and they can actually>enjoy climbing on stuff well below their personal 'best' limits.>☻

Oh true. I always love to do a lap of Diapason when I'm there coz its a great route and 8 is way below my limit! But I wouldn't carry on like this if 2 bolts were shot into it even though they ain't necessary.

On 21/08/2009 chalkischeap wrote:>If we didn't have people like robertsonja there would be twice as many>bolts at Arapiles.

Bollocks - Arapiles is still moderated by general consensus and standards, which on Chockstone at least, accept these particular bolts. Bolts are hardly going in willynilly and thoughtlessly.

If people are really concerned about things that are degrading to Arapiles, rather than harping on about 2 bolts, have a look at erosion, track wear, weeds, rubbish and people's repulsive toileting practices.

>On 21/08/2009 chalkischeap wrote:>>If we didn't have people like robertsonja there would be twice as many>>bolts at Arapiles.

On 21/08/2009 Wendy wrote:>Bollocks - Arapiles is still moderated by general consensus and standards,>which on Chockstone at least, accept these particular bolts. Bolts are>hardly going in willynilly and thoughtlessly.

They would if they did not wear a flameproof suit while reading Chocky?
Did someone not mention the abseil station/s near Kachoong on another thread?

>>If people are really concerned about things that are degrading to Arapiles,>rather than harping on about 2 bolts, have a look at erosion, track wear,>weeds, rubbish and people's repulsive toileting practices.

Mostly agree, but why not both?
If you had your fav project spoilt by bolts / thin end of the wedge and all that...
☺

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Start
Ooerrr Dribble.
My bad-
Hijack buffer zone.
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On 19/08/2009 Sarah Gara wrote:>On 19/08/2009 simey wrote:>>but it might not be any time soon as I have a cafe to set up first.>>Ahhh... the cafe. I've only been here a month and even i know that's been>in the pipe line for a while.. >>Looking forward to it. (snip)

On 21/08/2009 One Day Hero wrote:>???? Bullshit! Loweroffs on Trapese and Christian Crack?!? I'm bringing>my chopping gear down in November. Talking achieves nothing, time to act.
Bugger off. An interstate climber proposing to comne to Arapiles to remove bolts? Look after your own area. We don't need another interstate bolt-chopping war.

Post-edit - Why the confected anger about Trapeze? There was a chain there on my first climbing weekend in 1973.. The nature of the anchor has changed 3 or 4 times in the intervening year but it has been possible to lower-off it for my entire climbing life.

On 21/08/2009 kieranl wrote:>>Post-edit - Why the confected anger about Trapeze? There was a chain there>on my first climbing weekend in 1973.. The nature of the anchor has changed>3 or 4 times in the intervening year but it has been possible to lower-off>it for my entire climbing life.

Impetuous and self righteous acts .... Much as I think the chains on Swinging and Christian Crack are unnecessary, I think it's preferable to be politely and reasonably vocal about my problems with them rather than carry on like a pork chop and pulling out the angle grinder. One doesn't need to take extreme action to get one's point across.

Repeat point ... on the ground problems of erosion, rubbish, shit and toilet paper are far more urgent need of action IMO.

On 21/08/2009 Wendy wrote:>Impetuous and self righteous acts .... Much as I think the chains on Swinging>and Christian Crack are unnecessary, I think it's preferable to be politely>and reasonably vocal about my problems with them rather than carry on like>a pork chop and pulling out the angle grinder. One doesn't need to take>extreme action to get one's point across.

Congraulations, you've gotten your point across and the chains are still there, useless and self indulgent blabbering.....

On 21/08/2009 kieranl wrote:>Bugger off. An interstate climber proposing to comne to Arapiles to remove>bolts? Look after your own area. We don't need another interstate bolt-chopping>war.>
Ummmm, no. I don't think I'll bugger off. Just because you live in Nati, it doesn't mean you own the crag. I just moved to Wollongong, does that mean I can now do whatever the f--- I please at Nowra because I'm a local?

>Post-edit - Why the confected anger about Trapeze? There was a chain there>on my first climbing weekend in 1973.. The nature of the anchor has changed>3 or 4 times in the intervening year but it has been possible to lower-off>it for my entire climbing life.

A good settup would be one rap route per feature from which it's tricky/dangerous to descend. This is how Araps was when I started going there. One rap for the Golden Fleece wall, one rap for Castle Crag, no raps and no lower offs for Colloseum Wall cause it's total piss to walk down. I hope there aren't fat fixed hangers or rings where the carrots used to be on Swinging!!.......choppety chop chop

On 21/08/2009 One Day Hero wrote:>On 21/08/2009 Wendy wrote:>>Impetuous and self righteous acts .... Much as I think the chains on>Swinging>>and Christian Crack are unnecessary, I think it's preferable to be politely>>and reasonably vocal about my problems with them rather than carry on>like>>a pork chop and pulling out the angle grinder. One doesn't need to take>>extreme action to get one's point across.>>Congraulations, you've gotten your point across and the chains are still>there, useless and self indulgent blabbering.....

One day Hero, I don't neccesarily disagree with you, perhaps just the manner in which you try to make your point(s). Your telling others(in a seemingly agressive manner) that they are 'simply blabbering'. I don't see any thought out, cohesive arguement from your corner that may be seen by others as constructive.

On 21/08/2009 One Day Hero wrote:>A good settup would be one rap route per feature from which it's tricky/dangerous>to descend. This is how Araps was when I started going there. One rap for>the Golden Fleece wall, one rap for Castle Crag, no raps and no lower offs>for Colloseum Wall cause it's total piss to walk down. I hope there aren't>fat fixed hangers or rings where the carrots used to be on Swinging!!.......choppety>chop chop

?

You are not one of those confused and weird history buff choppers are you?
(Hehx3)

From 'On Chopping Bolts' thread.
~>

20/08/2009 One Day Hero wrote:>There are also history buff choppers who will not allow retro's on existing routes because "we must respect what was done in the past"........I imagine that they are a bit confused when it comes to which chopping method to employ, you can never tell what these weirdos will get up to

On 21/08/2009 mattjr wrote:
I don't>see any thought out, cohesive arguement from your corner that may be seen>by others as constructive.

Bolts are being put in for convenience then sold to us as 'safety'. This offends me because I like to see as little metal in the rock as possible while still not wishing for things to be too dangerous. I also like to do arcane things such as rig belays, scramble down, find descent options, solve problems. I believe these are very useful things to learn and I believe the environment at araps 15yrs ago was conducive to gaining these skills........cohesive and constructive as, eh bro?

But I've said all of that before and Kierans drill continues to whirr. I don't think pulling his bolts out will stop him but talking has achieved nothing so chopping is the next thing to try.