Comments (186)

Manolo

(Reuters) – Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump picked up the endorsement on Monday of the union representing 5,000 federal immigration officers, a boost of support for his immigration policy ahead of his first debate with Democrat Hillary Clinton.

Albert_Ross

Re-offending rates are lower where young offenders are treated as young people in need of help rather than criminals in need of punishment.

Consider. Here is a misbehaving youth who has made some idiotic mistakes but will in all probability grow out of it in due course. Suppose though that instead, we want to make absolutely sure that instead he grows up to be a hardened, habitual criminal.

Can you think of a better way to ensure that, than to confine him in an environment where the only people he will meet, form relationships with and learn from, are hardened habitual criminals?

No crimes are “caused” by alcohol, they’re caused by people choosing to act on criminal intent. This piece of shit hung out on the street looking for someone to beat up not because alcohol forced him to, but because he’s the kind of shit who hangs out on the street looking for people to beat up.

Albert_Ross

Apologies to Psycho Milt – I did not mean to report you, I meant to respond to your comment.

Let’s assume you are right that “he’s the kind of sh*t who hangs out on the street looking for people to beat up”. Do you think he is more likely to stop being that as a result of spending eighteen months meeting nobody except even worse pieces of sh*t, or as a result of spending time having it demonstrated that there are better ways to behave?

cmm

“Re-offending rates are lower”

No they are not lower. All that happens is we are deluding ourselves by giving these criminals (and I use that term deliberately) diversions so they don’t show up in the stats. The “tag and release” policies etc.

“Can you think of a better way to ensure that, than to confine him in an environment where the only people he will meet, form relationships with and learn from, are hardened habitual criminals?”

That is “ambulance at the bottom of the cliff thinking”. If a 19 year old is running around violently stomping people then the die is cast – he’s a violent criminal well on his way to a life of crime.

What we need is harsher punishments earlier so that the connection is made in his pea brain that criminal behaviour has consequences and those consequences are unpleasant.

If we let someone off for crimes like these all we end up with is a bloke (and his mates and others watching) that violent criminal behaviour has no real consequences. He should have been stopped with serious consequences when he was 13 or 14 – tagging, bullying or doing whatever other crap he was doing.

We see the same in that French bastard who was let off for shoplifting. All he had to do way pay for the good he stole. That sends the message that the justice system is weak. Why not try shoplifting if the worst is you’ll just have to pay for the item.

Albert_Ross

Trying to pick a fight with people who don’t want to fight you, and savagely beating them when they won’t in a way that could easily kill them, isn’t an “idiotic mistake,” it’s a deliberate and malicious serious violent crime. We’re now teaching that him that deliberate and malicious serious violent crime is something he won’t be punished for because he’s good at rugby. Anyone expecting a good outcome from that is fucked in the head.

Albert_Ross

He’s not “not being punished”. He is being punished in a way which is more likely to lead to him not re-offending than is banging him up in a place where the only people he will meet are habitual criminals. Isn’t that the outcome we want?

If you dispute the claim that he’s gone unpunished, can you describe what the punishment he was given consisted of? Because it hasn’t been mentioned in any of the news reports.

It’s also not clear to me how letting him away with malicious, unprovoked and serious violent assaults is “more likely to lead to him not re-offending.” Isn’t getting away with the crimes you commit actually very likely to lead to further offending?

GoVege

What do you know?
It runs in the family!
I wonder WHY?
Maybe if our police had been a bit more proactive about dealing with family violence a couple of decades ago, our streets (and homes) might be a lot safer now.

Odakyu-sen

Icarus

Before sentencing a Judge receives numerous reports into the defendants circumstances and lifestyle. The angry KB lynch mob does not get to see any of that.

The Judge will be able to see any progress, or lack of, from those reports. Remember you only hear about the failures. That is not a good basis to entirely do away with sentences that try to address the underlying cause of crime and take a more holistic view.

Lance

Oh well, it was a victim-less crime.
Four innocent people weren’t savagely assaulted for no good reason and one doesn’t need plastic surgery. Others haven’t had to take a year off work due to serious injury after being repeatedly stomped on the head.
So no need for a conviction, no punishment, no reparations.

wiseowl

This Filipo character was only 17 at the time of the assault and as it was in the early hours of the morning one could assume he and fellow thugs had been drinking somewhere.
What is the legal drinking age?
Rugby should not matter in this case.What an arse .Wellington Rugby should wipe their hands of this guy and the PC Mr Tew should re think his policy of diversity .

godruelf

As he was only 17 at the time does it mean that under the proposed changes by National that he would be in future be before the Youth Court and not have a record anyway? If the changes go through how many more will slip under the Radar.

WineOh

WineOh

Given the downticks, I should probably expand on this. There is no indication that this young player was chosen based on anything other than raw talent other than ethnicity. Others are claiming that he is/was a prodigy.

That in no way of course explains his reckless and thuggish behaviour. I don’t understand why Rugby players are treated so leniently when they behave badly compared to others – much as I love watching the game.

What on earth does the piece on name suppression have to do with this case Chuck? There was no suppression order made in the Filipo case, so whilst he might have escaped a conviction, in many ways things just got worse for him because every bush lawyer and media “personality” in the country will now draw attention to his offending.

GoVege

Icarus..it’s well documented that childbirth, especially of a large number of children, upsets a woman’s hormones and can lead to the psychotic behaviour you describe.
Most of DV and street violence is committed by males.

Salacious Crumb

Loddenthinks

Yes I spotted that too – there’s both a contrast and a parallel with the dickhead Delegat tuff guy that beat a policewoman senseless in Dunedin. The contrast is their skin colour and gives the lie to the assertion that white defendants are treated more leniently.

But that falls over when you add the other factor that seems to make all the difference – rrrrrugby. That and the resources you can marshal behind you in support of your indefensible actions. In both cases, Delegat and Filipo have had expensive legal representation and a lot of “character” references. People blame this on alcohol, and alcohol plays a part, but it doesn’t cause you to become a thug, it just reveals the thug that was always there.

virtualmark

Who was the Judge?

Every media story I’ve seen on this so far has been careful not to name (and shame) the Judge. Why?

We the public need to be able to monitor the people we appoint to judge people on our behalf, and if those people we appoint don’t reflect the peoples’ consensus then they should be removed from their positions.

For far too long society has tugged its forelock and prostrated itself in front of judges. Why? Most of them are uninspiring people. And their track record suggests they are far far softer on criminals than the general public wants them to be. Time for some accountability.

GoVege

What I’d like to know is how this teenager became a violent thug?
Violence is learned.
Who did he learn it from?
His family should be explaining how they produced this thug.
Maybe there are more thugs we don’t know about….yet.

GoVege

Don’t hold your breath, virtualmark.
These judges are answerable to no-one.
A mate of mine has been trying to get answers from a judge who let off a violent offender with a record.
After 2 years of trying, his latest delaying tactic is to tell her she must get the agreement of the basher himself!

Well, in the sense that “remorse” has come to mean a display that the defence lawyer encourages you to make for the judge at sentencing, he has been “remorseful.” I can understand why the crims put on the display, what I can’t understand is why judges treat it as genuine.

“I took full responsibility for my actions by pleading guilty to the charges and have apologised through my lawyer to the people involved.

“I have been fortunate to have support from throughout the community so that I continue to take positive steps to ensure nothing like this ever happens again.”

I have mixed feelings about this. It was serious offending, which would normally attract jail time. I’m sure alcohol would have been a factor, after all there a few sober people lurking around the streets in the early hours of the morning. Alcohol though, is NOT an excuse, but in a 17-year-old, it can significantly impair judgment.

On the other hand, the publicity the case is attracting today is a significant punishment in itself. Filipo is going to have to live with the consequences of being known as a violent thug, even if this was an isolated, out-of-character incident. The media is now going to hound him, and as some who comment here will know, that can be particularly unpleasant.

Everything published to date suggests that Filipo got off lightly. But there may indeed be something we haven’t yet been told by the media which might counter-balance what has been published.

Loddenthinks

I was even more incensed prior to reading the above, when I read the judge’s “sentencing indication” where he spelled out that if this young thug pleaded guilty he would get a discharge without conviction. He didn’t even have the guts to stand up and say Guilty without being given the word from the “judge” that he would literally get away with serious violence.

Worse were the weasel words Filipo said afterwards: “I took full responsibility for my actions by pleading guilty to the charges” bullshit mate you got told you’d be let off before you pled guilty. And this: “I have been fortunate to have support from throughout the community so that I continue to take positive steps to ensure nothing like this ever happens again.”

It didn’t “happen” you low-life thug – you did it. People say this like it was something that just happened, when what they should be doing is owning their actions and saying so.

I also highly doubt he wrote either of those statements, or the one in which he said he was leaving Wellington Rugby. He’s still dodged a very large bullet and needs to make up for it every day of his life from now on.

Steve (North Shore)

oldpark

Lest we forget, in the race for who is the next mayor for Wellington. Justin Lester, and the carpet bagger Nick Leggett, both with Labour/Green Party socialist spending in their DNA,it has been, just to reiterate their stance on Wellington” LightRail”. Given the chance they are all for it. Even though the cost of, for every $100 dollars spent, a return of $5 would be the result. In fact a financial disaster for the good ship Wellington. Thank fully common sense will prevail, once “Go Jo Coughlan” becomes the mayor,she vehemently opposes it.

godruelf

All set for a couple of hours in front of the TV this afternoon watching the debate. After looking at the EPG for poor mans TV pleased to see Al Jazeera are showing it live. I’m sure it will be better to see it all rather than the selected excerpts with the well informed slant from the likes of Jack Tame etc.

But them we’ve all known that Penny Bright says on thing about other people, then does the complete opposite herself. Her hypocrisy is sickening, but she is so self-absorbed she can’t (or won’t) see it.

ross411

New Zealand Union of Student Associations’ president, Linsey Higgins, says some defaulters see their student loan debt as an “insurmountable beast”.

Heaven forbid, people who choose to borrow money should have to take on some adult responsibility and pay it off like the rest of us. Or to be frugal and borrow the smallest amount possible, rather than blow it on whatever.

ross411

calendar girl

Thanks for that link, RP. Defaulters (not ordinary student borrowers) accounted for $1.073bn of overdue student debt at the end of June, with that figure increasing at a rate of around $1m per day.

Many if not most of the major defaulters seem to be overseas with no intention of returning, or of working out with IRD a long-term plan for repaying their debts:

“Over 100,000 student loans are in default, with around 80% of their borrowers living offshore.”

“The data, released by the Inland Revenue Department (IRD), revealed the top 10 biggest debtors owe more than $300,000 each and are all based overseas.”

What to do about it, other than what IRD is currently doing (which is not having the effect of actually reducing the default amount?

There must come a time (after due warning to persistent defaulters who refuse to cooperate) when the Government / taxpayer ramps up its collection procedures. For example, will the worst defaulters continue, indefinitely, to be able to hide behind name suppression? And to be able, at their sole option, to renew their New Zealand passports by simply applying and paying a $180 application fee?

Gabby

Longknives

The ‘Old Boys Network’ is alive and well in New Zealand.
How many times have we seen prominent Rugby morons strutting out of Court with a smirk on their Faces after being ‘Discharged without Conviction’ for some violent or dangerous offence?
This is fucking bullshit…If I went out this weekend and viciously assaulted three people, including two women, I would lose my job and go to jail.

doggone7

“How many times have we seen prominent Rugby morons strutting out of Court with a smirk on their Faces after being ‘Discharged without Conviction’ for some violent or dangerous offence?”

Tell us. Rugby has been played in the country for well over a hundred years and has probably involved more than a million people. One of them in committing a violent or dangerous act is too many.

When you’ve told us the number of times, maybe you could list the names of prominent, rugby morons, who have strutted out of court, a smirk on their faces, having been discharged without conviction, for some violent or dangerous offence. Be precise.

It’s about time that judges starting getting more heat when this happens. They are the ones making the decision. Our laws are fine and just need judges to start handing out criminals the sentences they deserve. The media should put the judge front and centre and hold him accountable, similar to what happened in the Stanford rape case.

Let’s stop pretending that Rugby are concerned with this type of behaviour. Let’s stop pretending that they are acting to stamp it out. The fact of the matter is that this sort of thing is not considered to be a big deal in rugby circles; it is seen as the boys letting of some steam. The Wellington rugby union don’t seem to have an issue with it at all; the rugby media are just as guilty. I know for a fact that one highly placed rugby coach has numerous criminal convictions for assault, the rugby media are aware of it yet they still go to him often for comment on the game. This coach (and ex player) is held up as a “legend” by his club and as a ‘good hard bugger’ by many in the rugby media.

Make no mistake, the wider NZ rugby community do not see Filipo’s behaviour as being anything other than a mistake….and some of you wonder why I hate the NZRU and the NZ team.

stephieboy

Tauhei Notts

Stephieboy, you have earned more downticks than anybody else on this blog.
Then you bring out that link. Thank you for bringing that to our attention. It appears that a significant number of top professional rugby players are bad for your health, be it physical health or financial health. The list is astonishing.

Don the Kiwi

I do hope that the people of Upper Hutt remember Mr Guppy’s involvement in all of this when they cast their vote for Mayor.
Mr Guppy is of course steeped in rugby culture, he is a past coach of the Upper Hutt rugby club.

There are renewed calls for China to rein in its extraordinary mountain of debt or risk what Australia has been worried about for years — a “hard landing” for China’s economy. … read more via hyperlink above …

Odakyu-sen

Since mainland Chinese have known nothing but economic growth since the early 1980s, much the same as Japan experienced from 1950 to 1992, most working-age Chinese would have no memory of economic recession.
Think about it. The Chinese economy started to lift off a couple of years after its leader Deng Xiaoping began to champion “reform and opening” in 1978.
How old would the youngest “working age” Chinese have been in, say 1981, when the Chinese economy began to open up? If the typical young worker was aged 20 in 1981, they would have been born around 1961. That would make them 55 years old today.
I suggest that no Chinese under the age of 55 knows what a recession is like. Please note that I am talking about “recession” and not “hard times.” Of course, life was hard back in the early 1980s, as it was for Japanese in the early 1950s, but each year became better than the last in terms of economic growth.
If you have never experienced a recession or a real estate crash, it is unlike anything you can imagine. Real estate crashes happen very slowly at first, and then very, very quickly. After the fact, people look at each other in disbelief and exclaim, “How could we have been so stupid.”And yet, at the time of the housing bubble, leveraged speculation seems to be the most sensible thing in the world to do.

Tauhei Notts

Mine host,
At 1.00 p.m. eight days ago you brought to our attention a very serious matter. I would be grateful if you could be so kind as to provide us with any progress that has been made on that matter.
I am aware that you may have to delete this comment, for the legal wheels move in a most mysterious manner.

Tauhei Notts

I wonder if Hillary’s health is improving.
I note that on Betfair Joe Biden’s odds to be the next president, which had got as low as $40, after Her collapse 18 days ago, have moved out to $110. Turnover on that site is now approaching GBP46,000,000. The moll is still a red hot $1.58 favourite.

Odakyu-sen

Deutsche Bank shares are not doing well. If the German State has over-reached on the immigration front and is unable to provide support to DB, I wonder if Deutsche Bank will follow the path of Lehman Brothers?
After cat-bouncing back from 2009, DB shares have drifted downwards until they are now lower than they were in the wake of the “Lehman Shock.”
If DB fails, the repercussions will be severe. I will be keeping an eye on Deutsche Bank from now on.

Here we go again – the ‘rape-ugees’ just can’t seem to help themselves, for some reason.

Mother ‘Drugged, Abducted and Raped’ by Gang of Migrants in Sunderland

A mother-of-three was allegedly drugged and raped by a gang of migrants in Sunderland, sparking violent demonstrations and social unrest in the city.
The 26-year-old woman believes her drink was spiked during a night out, leading to her waking up in a strange house covered in cuts and bruises. She has no memory of getting there.

Police have arrested six men from Iraq, Syria and Bahrain on suspicion drugging and sexually assaulting her.

Loddenthinks

stephieboy

Who will win the debate / cage fight this afternoon ? It all depends on who is the most consummate liar and Trump by far has shown to be master of the big lie. Not speak of his expertise stoking the fires of bigotry and hatred .

Are you kidding? Hillary has been getting away with lying for years, and not only lying. She’s gotten away with breaking the law, with scandal after scandal. Both Clinton’s have. She should have been in prison years ago. Anyone else who had done the things she’s done would have been locked up.

doggone7

Steve (North Shore)

Dysfunctional Veterans USA:
How many of you are gonna watch the debate tonight? And should i go live on fb and give you my running commentary what is happening like they do on football? I’m gonna watch this debate like people watch NASCAR for the wrecks!

wiseowl

Icarus

KevinH

Today’s debate will be watched by an expected 100 million Americans, if you factor in global interest you could expect that figure to be at least double, perhaps in the region of 200 million +.
Viewers will be looking for any health issues from Hillary and any lies from Donald.
The anticipated roles will be Hillary the passive and Donald the aggressor, how Hillary responds to Donalds attacks will have an impact on the undecided voter in the U.S. as well as firming up support from voters who have already made their decision.
You can expect both candidates to take excerpts from todays debate into the next debates.
I am expecting this to be a tense debate with both parties looking to exploit any weaknesses, miscues or unsubstantiated comments. Trump will no doubt attack and Clinton will be on defence.

Don the Kiwi

What’s an “assault weapon” ?
In my book, not only guns, but knives, baseball bats and any other instrument that can be used to inflict wounds or death on another person.
Be more specific stephie – you bloody dunce !!

Gabby

All_on_Red

Stop telling lies Stephie. Omar Mateen was a Security Officer who had been vetted and as such was able to buy weapons. It’s stupid to then extrapolate that weapons are easy to get because of his example.
MY post was about your stupid question not the second amendment. Of course your response is just as stupid.
So, tell us more about all these ‘white trash’ you’re going on about?

Jack5

As has been pointed out on Kiwiblog before, it’s near-impossible to block off supply of military-style rifles. You can build your own with a fairly cheap CNC milling machine available on the internet. It mills a critical part for AR15 and AR10 rifles.

Here’s how the machine maker describes it on its web site:

Legally manufacture unserialized AR rifles in the comfort and privacy of your home.

Maggy Wassilieff

@Icarus

Are you white trash, or just a supporter of white trash?
I’m a little unclear as to what Stephieboy was implying at 12:28pm.
But as you have never posted comments about supping lattes in Auckland malls, I suspect you are either trash (of some hue) or a tea-swilling sophisticate (like moi).

Manolo

Deutsche Bank has denied seeking assistance from Berlin and said it had no plans for a capital increase after investors attacked the embattled bank, sending its share price to its lowest levels in more than three decades.

Jack5

Another example of why the Left is losing the working class. This one is from Britain, where Labour shows contempt for the working class lads and lasses who make up the ranks of the British armed services:

So the Greens have decided to stand aside and leave it to Labour if there is a by election for Phil Goff,s seat if he becomes the Mayor of Auckland.Now it will be interesting to see how NZ First see this and whether they will join the party as i think Labour will need more help to retain this seat.

Captain Mainwaring

Didn’t National win the party vote last election and i think it was only that it was Phil Goff that they held the seat.The new candidate and his wife from Labour do not inspire the electrate so i can see them losing this seat

sam green

Captain Mainwaring

So Lose Filipo was let off by the judge to protect his rugby career.
Now that Wellington Rugby has kicked him into touch, he has no rugby career.
Now he needs to go to his rightful place – jail.
But will the system make that happen?
And doesn’t the judge look like a complete arse.

SPC

2. This does not prevent him from getting another contract in the future. Whereas a conviction would have impact on getting visas when travelling with teams.

A quite sensible move, as the risk is the build of pressure to change the judges decision which would impact on his playing future. He should end his drinking and consider wisely his associations off the field.

SPC

Yes.

The judges decision is probably wrong.

While there is precedent for leniency – two young players committed one punch assaults and got no conviction. And George Moala continued punching someone on the ground and did not get a conviction – nor lose his Blues contract (not even for one season).

But if they re-offend they will be convicted.

In this case 4 separate people were assaulted, one severely and including two females king hit. A bit much to swallow as “impulsive” action when drunk, so as to give them a second chance.

Talk show host and Trump supporter Michael Savage’s show is yanked off-air and replaced by an older episode when he started talking about Hillary’s health issues. Really? More destruction of free speech by liberals who usually say they are all for it. They can’t stand anyone to criticize their candidate and will go so far as to remove a syndicated radio hosts talk show.

greybeard

Wellington Rugby: bloody incompetent idiots.
Rob Nicol: an even bigger blind and “in-denial” idiot.
Losi Filipo: currently dangerous, and a definite future problem .
The four victims: thrown on the scrap-heap by a “judge” who should be removed immediately.