well not much that much more detail, but meeting with the HSE is interesting, i can't help but think there constantly being too polite in their descriptions of the meetings, why not say your getting the brush off if that's the case, why give an indication that the HSE gives a hoot about what the humanist think about our health service considering the state its in?

im sure the humanist have met theses people and done these rounds of meetings before, the OP doesn't just want to talk about it he wants to get it done. some of these humanist people have been involved in referendum and other campaigns before im sure they have plenty of knowledge of how things work.

Some people seem to think that because we have an unsaid 'pseudo-secular' state, that that is good enough on its own, and that no hard amendments are needed to solidify our country as a proper secular democracy.

I disagree with those people.

It would be best to properly migrate our laws and constitution to a truly secular standing. Without reference to god(s), or any notion of privilege for religion (i.e. things like blasphemy).

Saying "Oh, wouldn't it be great if they added real church-state separation" while sitting on your arse is all well and good, but getting involved deeply is the only way you can change anything.

you don't need to get involved in politics, you could take them to court as a citizen, i say becoming a lawyer is your first step.

I understand where you both are coming from, but I aready know what I want to do with my life and becoming a lawyer or getting into politics are not on the agenda, that's why I'm reaching out to others on this subject who may actually be in a position to help bring this to fruition.

And, to be frank, sitting on my arse is the last thing I'm doing. I've set up a bebo page on the topic, I've contacted people on different forums, I'm planning on a myspace page, I have researched the topic in depth and I'm engaging in an active dialogue with people who share my views. Since I'm in germany until september, do you truly consider this 'sitting on my arse'?

I don't think you're sitting on your arse and I don't think it was a fair accusation. We all should do what we can. One step you could make, if you haven't already, is join the humanist association. They are campaigning for the same thing and the stronger their membership the stronger their voice. Membership is only about 20Euro per annum.

Then continue what you're doing. Do what you can to keep the issue alive. Maybe take the opportunity any chance you get to write letters to the editors of newspapers. They don't have to be specifically about the constitution. Any letters written from the perspective of a secularist will remind people that we still exist.

Ignore the nay sayers. They seem to come out of the woodwork anytime someone comes up with a suggestion and they generally have NOTHING productive to add.

lostexpectation wrote:
you don't need to get involved in politics, you could take them to court as a citizen, i say becoming a lawyer is your first step.

I understand where you both are coming from, but I aready know what I want to do with my life and becoming a lawyer or getting into politics are not on the agenda, that's why I'm reaching out to others on this subject who may actually be in a position to help bring this to fruition.

And, to be frank, sitting on my arse is the last thing I'm doing. I've set up a bebo page on the topic, I've contacted people on different forums, I'm planning on a myspace page, I have researched the topic in depth and I'm engaging in an active dialogue with people who share my views. Since I'm in germany until september, do you truly consider this 'sitting on my arse'?

I don't think you're sitting on your arse and I don't think it was a fair accusation. We all should do what we can. One step you could make, if you haven't already, is join the humanist association. They are campaigning for the same thing and the stronger their membership the stronger their voice. Membership is only about 20Euro per annum.

Then continue what you're doing. Do what you can to keep the issue alive. Maybe take the opportunity any chance you get to write letters to the editors of newspapers. They don't have to be specifically about the constitution. Any letters written from the perspective of a secularist will remind people that we still exist.

Ignore the nay sayers. They seem to come out of the woodwork anytime someone comes up with a suggestion and they generally have NOTHING productive to add.

Thanks for the support and the great suggestions!

abc wrote:Some people seem to think that because we have an unsaid 'pseudo-secular' state, that that is good enough on its own, and that no hard amendments are needed to solidify our country as a proper secular democracy.

I disagree with those people.

It would be best to properly migrate our laws and constitution to a truly secular standing. Without reference to god(s), or any notion of privilege for religion (i.e. things like blasphemy).

Nice to see someone who knows EXACTLY where I'm coming from, and said it in a better way than I felt I could. A 'Pseudo-Secular' society is exactly what we have at the moment, but that could so easily change.

Let's make it change to OUR advantage!

lostexpectation wrote:the OP doesn't just want to talk about it he wants to get it done.

dj357 wrote:My name is Darragh J, I am 21, a firm Atheist (of the strong persuasion), and I come from Ireland.

Since I realised the error of my religious ways in 2003, and devoted my time and mental faculties to freethought and intelligent discourse, I seem to have been mainly ineffective in attempting to get others ........

Darragh, now that you are free from the repressive contraints of your religious upbringing, why not just go out into the wide world and enjoy yourself? That's the best way to 'spread the word'

good advice alexis, sometimes when i allow myself to overwhelmed by the big issues in the world, i just say well 'i'll just do my best in my life and when the opportunities arise in my daily life to simply act well (let alone, enact change) then that's best opportunity to do so, but then i think i tried to do that in my work last year and quickly saw how even that smaller environment was such a behemoth it was changing me rather then the other way around, so perhaps there are things one can't do on ones own.

lostexpectation wrote:good advice alexis, sometimes when i allow myself to overwhelmed by the big issues in the world, i just say well 'i'll just do my best in my life and when the opportunities arise in my daily life to enact change then that best opportunity to do so, but then i think i tried to do that in my work last year and quickly saw how even that smaller environment was such behemoth it was changing me rather the the other way around, so perhaps there are thing one can't do on ones own.