Posted
by
samzenpuson Friday January 31, 2014 @03:01AM
from the without-expressed-written-consent dept.

coondoggie writes: "As they have for the past few years the US Customs department teamed with the National Football League to cut into the lucrative counterfeit sports gear market. In what the feds called 'Operation Team Player,' special agents from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and officers from Customs and Border Protection worked with the National Football League (NFL) and other sports leagues along with law enforcement agencies to identify illegal shipments imported into the U.S., as well as stores and vendors selling counterfeit trademarked items."

The Feds involved cooperated so much for the PUBLICITY!Had it been some other copyright infringement, it may not have even happened.THIS, however, so close to the bowl, generates FREE PUBLICITY in the media.Kind of like when they send in a SWAT team to a K.C. burb to bust a yuppie household for marijuana because they ordered hydroponic equipment off the internet.No pot found, but they DID send those teabags to the lab and found themselves a whole lotta PUBLICITY, yup, the good ol boys, cleanin up the county

A rich person pays more taxes in dollar amount than a middle-class person, sure, but in proportion to income the middle-class person is likely going to pay more. Whether corporations should pay income taxes is another discussion (they should and do pay property taxes).

The taxes in the USA are regressive. As a top 10% wage earner, I paid about 10% in federal income tax, less than 20% total tax (including all federal, state, and local taxes). And the wealthy (the 1% people talk about) often pay much less than that, some even getting tax rebates. And most of the value of taxes goes to the rich.

They also hired there own "medical commission" to ignore the fact repeated head trauma causes brain disease, despite leading neurologists having slices of brain, and findings that suggest otherwise. Any contact sport really, PBS and Frontline ran a 2 part special over the NFL's denial..

Pretty much a monopoly.

I really don't know why the NFL is going through all that trouble. Those elite professionals who even make it to the NFL know damn well the dangers of playing the game. It's not like ANY kid eligible for the NFL draft doesn't know this, or it's some big secret that you can get hurt or killed on the field. I know damn well the dangers of stepping into a 3,000-pound steel box and sending it hurtling down a freeway at 75MPH, inches from thousands of other steel boxes. I still get up and do it, every single

The NFL Committee did everything within its power to deny any causal link between multiple concussions and later-life cognitive decline. DeMaurice Smith, Executive Director of the NFLPA, described this NFL Committee policy: “[u]nfortunately, the NFL...

Yes, but now that the information is out there, how many current players have retired early because of it? Only one that I've heard of. Whether or not the NFL deliberately hid information from past players probably wouldn't have made any difference either.

Have you ever heard a football player speak? I don't really want to defend these idiots, but I think that some of them might not understand the severity of the trauma they're subjecting their bodies to. Most probably are too stupid to care, but they are actually getting hurt at work and their employer is denying that the job is causing the injury.

It quite well may be. One thing the Chinese do on request is quality control. The same factory churning out cheap electronics may very well be the same factory assembling expensive quality gear. The difference is the "counterfeits" may be the result of a skeleton crew working after hours to produce goods off the books. The first thing they get to do is ditch the oversight and quality control.

It may well be the same product from the same factory but that doesn't necessarily mean the quality is the same. And

Or it may well be that the quality control on the counterfeit merchandise is HIGHER than the QC for the official NFL. Just because the counterfeit is cheaper in price doesn't mean it is lower in quality. 90% of the price of the merchandise is the logo.

Or it may well be that the quality control on the counterfeit merchandise is HIGHER than the QC for the official NFL. Just because the counterfeit is cheaper in price doesn't mean it is lower in quality. 90% of the price of the merchandise is the logo.

Two problems with that. First is that if you haven't addressed the free rider problem [wikipedia.org]. There are lots of costs besides simply the cost of manufacturing the good. Advertising, distribution, brand building, R&D, marketing, etc. These are very significant and the counterfeiters do not have to pay them but still reap the benefits of them. That is a HUGE problem and is 100% of the reason we have patents and copyright.

The second is that the reason the logo has value is because of the relationship between

To complete your analogy you'd have to state that your education took 5 minutes and cost you almost nothing. That changes the equation a bit, especially regarding corporate empathy.

Honestly I find it very hard to side with a company who lives up to nothing but it's name. This isn't years of hard effort, it's 5 minutes slapping a logo on a shirt often within restrictions of a strict set of colours and patterns which may be used. I don't really feel for th

There is no free rider problem. That billionaires are whining about some Chinese shop making $0.10 off a shirt that didn't give the NFL billionaires 90% profit isn't a "problem". Are you asserting that the counterfeit merchandise manufactured in China is shipped by the NFL, then stolen in the USA for sale?

You are defending the billionaire's loss, when we don't see one in the first place.

Many are indeed run off on the same machines that make the official product. This is, of course, a much graber problem for car or aircraft parts (which may often use cheaper metals) than shirts (though have you seen the average football fan lately?)

I love how they call it counterfeit, like it's somehow of lesser quality than the chinese shit they sell themselves.

It might be the identical product off the same line but when you buy something you aren't just paying for the good itself. You are paying for a brand and what that implies including the entire process of how that product is delivered to you and who stands behind it if there is a problem with it. Counterfeit goods are a problem because of the free rider problem. If you can solve that problem then you might have a point.

The problem is that those people selling it out the back door don't have to pay for adv

The problem is that those people selling it out the back door don't have to pay for advertising, product development, brand development, R&D or any of a number of other costs that make it worthwhile to sell that product in the first place.

That's not the actual problem. The buyers that are buying it out the back door generally know that it is counterfeit. They are generally aware that the guy selling out of his hatchback is NOT selling "official" merchandise. The customers aren't getting deceived or de

Because counterfeit football merchandise is such a "clear and present danger" that it rates diverting resources from, you know, actual crime like bank robbery and human trafficking. Maybe the NFL should be made to hire its own private security for this kind of stuff so public law enforcement can get back to protecting the public!

Mind telling me exactly what the fuck they should be focused on this month, if their very job is to stop illegal trafficking of all kinds? Seems there's just a tiny bit of justification out there after a 20+ million-dollar bust, but hey, I could be wrong...

To put things in perspective, the total take from bank robbery in the US is around $30 million a year. Bank Robbery [fbi.gov]

This is a pretty good point, but surely the reason why we disapprove of bank robbery isn't so much the financial loss (though that undoubtedly is an issue) but more the attendant violence associated with such a crime. That is we care about bank robberies because the people that commit them tend to commit assault and murder during the commission of said robberies. Whereas counterfeiting represents a purely financial loss; there is little sports memorabilia crime.

I see. So, arguably the biggest sporting event of the year that generates billions of dollars in merchandising for US resellers, should somehow NOT be a focus of attention in the month of January?

I am saying that the IPR enforcement should be restricted to goods that actually harm consumers and contain a meaningful misrepresentation about what the product is. For example: items that have substantial value per unit, such as fake Rolex. Or electronics phony branding.

I would say a "Fake" T-shirt with a team logo directly benefits the team. Why should I have to pay for a shirt that advertises for your team? Shouldn't you be paying me? Of course, I buy neither official nor counterfeit NFL merchandise since I can't reach an advertising agreement with the NFL that we both find mutually beneficial.

Will Goldilocks let down her hair too?* The modern state exists primarily to protect corporate profits. Anything else it does is just window dressing to set a level of tolerance among the people to perpetuate that state despite it acting against their best interests. This story is _entirely consistent with expectations_.

"Why, that can't be true - if it were, there'd be a Snowden briefing on that! Oh."

They can only do that when government is so small as to make no difference.

You know, I keep hearing this claim, because a certain segment of the population cuddles the talking point to their breast like a teddy bear, but you know what? I've never seen any empirical evidence that there is any truth to the claim whatsoever. And in fact, I think it's false.

I think that a government that is radically smaller than the largest organization it is supposed to regulate is incapable of regulating that organization because it can't keep up. For evidence, I point to the current state of af

I've never seen any empirical evidence that there is any truth to the claim whatsoever. And in fact, I think it's false.

Never seen as distinct from not found? Think as the result of reductive reasoning or just as a poor synonym for imagine?

I imagine that a government that is radically smaller than the largest organization it is supposed to regulate is incapable of regulating that organization because it can't keep up.

FTFY

Unless... government "regulation" effectively licenses monopolies that stops the market from self-regulating business.

I'm not sure if you're just a amateur sophist or a moron - but arguing that government regulation of business requires it to duplicate every single aspect of the business, therefore requiring the regulation process to match the size of business being regulated, is just, um, doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

For evidence, I point to the current state of affairs. I say, our bank regulators are understaffed. There should be more people with more government jobs specifically to regulate the banks, and because the part of the government that is supposed to do that job is so small, it's helpless to rein in behemoth multinational banks that can generate paper faster than a regulator can read it.

A selective interpretation that doesn't even allow for history is not evidence (it's just piss poor rationalisation). Government regulation of banks mostly amounts to stopping banks being competive. Historically government intervention was to remove the usury limitation that stopped banks charging more than 10% interest. Prior to that the loan sharks were the mob, now credit cards charge up to 30%. Those trillions "generated" are just transfers from Main St to Wall St, smoke and mirrors.

How do megacorporations exist without government - you know? Like American Fruit or West Indies Trading existing with the respective governments taking their money and supplying them with armies (probably some modern parallel but I can't any evidence with this box on my head). And excuse me for extrapolating but.. wouldn't the increased regulation to do that, um, increase government size. Not that I'm accusing you of sophism but... if it smells like a stawman sometimes you need to test if it's really straw (and my only tools are matches).

As for "forbid to fail/bail out my contributors" - just don't. It's that simple. If the government needs to intervene in business with funding it should own (nationalise) the business - not give/loan it money.

Because counterfeit football merchandise is such a "clear and present danger" that it rates diverting resources from, you know, actual crime like bank robbery and human trafficking.

"Actual crime" is what the law defines as crime.

Crimes with an interstate or foreign dimension or a federal constitutional dimension become a federal responsibility.

Clear and present danger was a doctrine adopted by the Supreme Court of the United States to determine under what circumstances limits can be placed on First Amendment freedoms of speech, press or assembly.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the largest investigative agency in the Department of Homeland Security, is responsible for enforcing the nation's immigration and customs laws. ICE has more than 20,000 employees working in 400 offices in the U.S. and around the world.

With more than 42,000 frontline CBP officers and Border Patrol agents protecting nearly 7,000 miles of land border and 327 ports of entry --- including official crossings by land, air, and sea --- CBP is uniquely situated to deter and disrupt human trafficking.

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS)

USCIS helps protect victims of human trafficking and other crimes by providing immigration relief. Two types of immigration relief for victims of human trafficking and other crimes are available through USCIS: T Nonimmigrant Status (T Visa) and U Nonimmigrant Status (U Visa).

We seem to be so enamored by sports that we will pay for whatever someone markets as sports-related - for what reason I will never know. The whole concept of paying extra for some sports logo emblazoned on a coat or shirt completely escapes me. Even a Star Trek logo does not mean that much to me. If I want some marking on myself or my things, I will put it so myself. I will not mark other's stuff - that's called vandalism.

Are you wanting to compare voluntary spending or involuntary spending?

Some miniscule amount of tax money goes to defending sport franchises' rights, where a very significant percentage of the taxes people pay goes toward education.

Now comparing voluntary spending on education to sports related spending would be a very interesting number indeed. People pay for college and private school but only some of them and generally only for a limited period of their life. The spending on sports is much more prevalent

I do think I understand why people are into sports teams, though. It's a tribal ritual that seems to serve a function of group cohesiveness. I got that from reading the evolutionary biology stories in New Scientist and Science.

There's another thing I don't "get". Of course I fully understand dressing in the team products, painting my head, going to the game, and screaming abuse at the opposition supporters. 'Cause they are a bunch of superstitious losers, while we are winners, yeah!Go Aggies!

Since they dropped law enforcement from their mission statement and donned "national security" the FBI won't have to worry about their actions exposed as they directly support de-facto communist corporate interests, not the people or the capitalism we're told is at play.

Think about it: How capitalistic is it to confiscate a bunch of goods to prevent competition? The sportswear pric

The jerseys (the good sewn ones) are simply way too expensive. They're upwards of $250-300 and taht's more than I'm spending on a player who might be with the team for 3-4 years. In fact, all the gear and items are obscenely inflated in price. However, the counterfeit stuff is hit or miss. I've got a Woodley jersey that looks like cartoon lettering was used for the player's name. Some items I'm sure are straight off the assembly line. Maybe they ran it another day and sold the extras on teh black market.

The NFL can't be surprised this is happening. When Americans started to realized that goods were being produced at cutrate prices overseas and sold to us as a huge markup, lots of us gave the finger to tradition stores and elected to cut out the middle man as well. I'm probably being hypocritical based on my stand on illegal downloads, but I have no sympathy for Goodell's NFL.

Often the manufacturers of the legitimate sportswear get a contract to make 10,000 shirts. So to cover the expected rejects, they make 12,000 shirts with the knowledge they'll have 10,000 good shirts to supply to the customer. Now what to do with the 2000 shirts they made extra and/or were rejected due to manufacturing issues (label upsidedown, etc) - they sell them on. They don't get the little hologram label saying its legit, but its made in the same factory by the same people, its just outside of the c

My brother's girlfriend got adventurous one christmas and purchased NFL jerseys from some shady chinese website. Reportedly, she got them for about $20 each, plus shipping. We gushed over them--and scrutinzed them carefully--as we couldn't believe the quality at the price she paid. After that experience, I'm 100% convinced they're not "counterfeit" in the manufacturing sense, but instead they're pulled straight from the line on which the same "$200" jerseys are made, and sold on the side.

After that experience, I'm 100% convinced they're not "counterfeit" in the manufacturing sense, but instead they're pulled straight from the line on which the same "$200" jerseys are made, and sold on the side.

Happens all the time actually. I've been to China and spoken with business owners there. It is ridiculously common for contract manufacturers to do exactly what you are describing. They'll make extra and simply divert some through a distribution channel other than what the customer intended.

Actually a lot of them don't do this anymore (pull them off the same line). That was a very common practice a few years ago where the company that produced the official product did so with the intention of running a "third shift" to make goods that would go unreported and sell them under the table. Now the guys making fakes (and nothing but fakes) are so good at what they do that something simple like an NFL logo is just too easy to copy perfectly. I buy them all the time and rarely ever see any kind of big

Due to a law passed after Hurricane Katrina [nytimes.com], when trademark holders got upset that poor and displaced people were wearing counterfeit clothing, the feds have to destroy all the seized clothing rather than donate it to charity.

China tends to donate seized counterfeit goods to charity. The US actually sued China at the WTO over this practice, and eventually lost [twnside.org.sg].

You're still purchasing a product from the manufacturer. Not the same as an illegal download.Potential copyright infringement, but that's more on the manufacturer. I want a #12 Jersey, and I might pay 50 bucks for it, regardless of where it comes from, but like you, I'm not shelling out 250+ for a shirt I wear once a week and do no work in.

You don't get sports, do you. It's about a fun camaraderie among fellow fans. I'm not wearing a jersey to support the NFL or the owner or the commissioner. I'm wearing it for my team and that player. If you don't get it, some people think you're just as stupid for shelling out $300 more for a high-end graphics card.

Customer and Border Patrol should stick to enforcing customs laws AT THE BORDER. Once it's entered the country they should have no authority. We've also seen them trying to enforce copyright, as in the recent Google Glass case [washingtonpost.com]. They're already out of control at the borders with their warrantless searches, their authority should be rolled back, not expanded.

Border Patrol is just a small part of the Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agency. CBP mainly inspects people and goods that come into the U.S. through any port, whether it's by land, sea or air. So they have officers all over, and intercepting counterfeit imports is part of their mission. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is the other agency within DHS that has boots on the ground to find violators after they get past customs. They should be part of a task force to find illegal imports as well.

I have come to the conclusion that when a President takes office he either gets with the program or the program gets with him. Not entirely, of course. He can have an agenda, but he can't color too far outside the lines.

So many high end brands move their production to China sending blueprints of their lucrative products to sweatshops and then wonder why the market suddenly gets flooded with counterfeit/perfect copies. They only really have themselves to blame for selling out their own countrys workers in the name of more profit. +1 for making them foot the customs bill though, hopefully at a vastly inflated rate plus expenses.

From the article: "Counterfeit goods cost the global economy an estimated $250 billion each year. More than 1.2 million jobs in New Jersey, 900,000 jobs in Colorado and 1.2 million in the state of Washington depend on IP intensive industries meaning counterfeits have a direct impact on the economy in the home states of both teams and the host of the Super Bowl."How, exactly, do people purchasing a good cost the world economy anything? Someone makes a product and another person buys it, viola, you have an ec

1) Many counterfeit goods are produced by the same factory that produced the originals (extended runs, etc)2) Counterfeit goods weaken incentives to produce innovative and/or higher quality goods (somewhat true)3) Many counterfeit goods are not produced to appropriate safety standards and constitute a health/safety hazard. (you mean the counterfit shirts are "unsafe"?)4) Counterfeits undermine the relationship between customer and buyer as the buyer can no longer be sure of the product they are rece

I only buy counterfeit jerseys now and if you find the right source they're rarely much different from the real thing. The only "level" of jersey that shows a great deal of difference is the genuine "on-field" jersey that is supposed to be exactly like the one the players wear. In the case of those yes, the real ones are made of better, thicker material with stronger seams. I can get one for a fraction of the real price though that is almost indistinguishable from the real thing at 10 feet and that's all I care about. I own two real jerseys. Both cost upwards of $250 and both players are long gone from the team I follow. Won't make that mistake again.
Buying a real jersey is something you do towards the end of a HoF players career, not on draft day before you know anything about them or the career they're going to have. It's so easy to waste your money on this stuff if you go authentic. Every year I contact "My man in China" via email and get his latest URL. he moves all the time and gets busted every now and then. He's back up in days at a new site and his jerseys are around $30 for a beautiful copy with all sewn letters/numbers. He has new players available within weeks (sometimes even days) of their coming to a team. I buy about 4-5 jerseys a year this way and when a player gets traded, or cut I don't get burned like I did before. What always amazes me is how good the fakes are. A really bad screen-printed pretend jersey at Academy is over $60 and I can get a great looking fake on-field jersey for $30. Who in the hell is guying the screen-printed crap?
Every time they shut him down he pops back up. That's the new economic reality IP holders. Time to get your prices back to reality. If Keki in China can afford to crank out hundreds of thousands of jerseys like this and ship them in small packages all over the US then it's hard to miss that the NFL is fucking over it's fans with overpriced crap.

Corporations want to be free to exploit cheap labor in developing countries. Well, developing countries want to exploit the demand and deep pockets of the first world. Counterfeits are a natural and essential part of a true competitive market. But corporations would rather operate under an imperialist market, where they use the force of big government to control the flow of goods and capital.

With the exception of the Packers (who are, for the purposes of this discussion, owned by their city), the teams themselves though, of course, are for profit.

It's just the ruling body - the league office - that's a non-profit. You can be a big business as a non-profit, and you can pay your employees well, but non-profit means exactly what it means. Goodell makes like 30mil, but the money the teams and players get is certainly not immune from taxes.