[Bug[ Seal Twisting

How it should be: After proc SoC (Seal of Command), is a delay of 0.5 seconds, and it can have time to replace the seal to any other, and it should proc damage from SoC.
Now: a new seal - only proc when the next autoattack

Comments (15)

why here is no answer from developers?
this is pretty big problem.
and the mechanic of ceal of command is broken in your core. Vengeance does not proc off of seal of command proc . judgement of command can be reflected. these are all bugs.
p.s. i suppose that smolderforge has oregon core. but they managed to fix seal twist . mb u can help us to fix it?

Have you tried on a clean oregon? From what I've gathered, some people are using a modified, quite outdated version. Once we get flywithmes hash we'll know where we're at and can you also explain seal twisting.

on clean oregon seal twist does not work. i play on flywithme core.
Seal Twisting

Seal Twisting is Retribution Paladin strategy used to benefit from more than just 1 seal at a time. It is based on clever usage of the delay which occurs between an auto-attack hit and an actual damage dealt by Seal of Command (about 0.5 sec). Seal Twisting is fairly easy to reproduce if you understand the theory but it requires good timing and reflex to use in an actual fight.

What is the bug?
first i think that seal twisting does not work because there was no delay of Seal of command proc. but later we aded it and now it procs good with 0,5 sec delay but seal twist is still cant be done
From Wowiki:

Since Patch 1.11, Seal of Command proc will have approximately 0.5 second delay before the animation begins and the Holy damage is incurred, instead of having the proc occur instantly with the swing of the attack. This is considered a good change, since if the normal swing is a critical strike and Vengeance is triggered, the Seal of Command proc will be affected by the buff.

This may seem like a minor problem, but actually it nerfs a huge and complicated element to retribution playstyle that was dubbed Seal Twisting.

"You swap seals when your swing animation, of any sorts, happens. Even if it isn’t a seal of command proc you can swap seals and still have SoJ proc off your white attack with this method. Seal of Command MUST be your starting seal, from there you can swap seals to any of the other seals that are procs. However, the only ones that would serve a high benefit is Seal of Justice, and for those lucky souls, Seal of Blood."

This is a big deal that reduces the skill cap of the class, and reduces the maximum obtainable dps by as much as 10-20% in the hands of a great player.

And don't say this does not affect pvp, there was a big thread on arena junkies when this was first discovered. It enabled higher burst and also gave an improved ability to interrupt spells by getting seal of justice stuns without losing damage.

as u can see it works on smolder. but they dont tell me how did they fix that.

and also the one way we tried to fix it ( which i copyed from AT - yes seal twisting worked at arena tournament ) was like this
they had 0,5 sec delay

Within the Spell DBCs Seal Of Command & Seal Of Blood Only Proc Off Of Regular Melee Attacks (The Flag Is Set Only To Only Regular Melee Attacks)

So....

In Patch 1.12 Blizzard Added a 500 ms Delay to Seal Of Command Procs. So The Spell That Seal Of Command Procs has a 500 MS Delay (Usually Around 1 Second Client Side). This Can Be Set By Modifying the Speed Of The Seal Of Command Triggered Spell. (This allows the Visual to be Seen while the damage itself is delayed)

That being said, in between the time in which the SoC proc is triggered and the actual landing of the delayed proc.... IF a player casts seal of blood within that time frame the seal of blood aura will proc off the delayed SoC trigger. Thus creating the miracle of seal twisting.

The reason why you CANNOT just set the delay of the SoC triggered spell is because the SoC auras within the spell DBC are simply set to white melee attacks instead of a chance to proc (for SoC) and a full proc chance (for SoB) on all melee attacks.

So... in conclusion...

You set the delay for all SoC auras to 1000 ms. This is categorized as SPEED under the Spell.DBC and the MS to SPEED ratio is 1000 to 1.
You Set The Proc Flags Of All SoC Spells and Seal Of Blood to 20 (this flag includes special melee attacks and regular melee attacks).

And you have a good day.

but mb we did smthg wrong and we still cant fix it. please help. it is very important for our players.

I think that the delay was already fixed and about the vengeance - it works on clean core!

realy? just tested it today on clean updated core. it DOESNT WORK. you recive vengeance proc off white melee crit. but not from seal of command crit. and also u have no delay for SoC proc on clean updated core.

I think that the delay was already fixed and about the vengeance - it works on clean core!

realy? just tested it today on clean updated core. it DOESNT WORK. you recive vengeance proc off white melee crit. but not from seal of command crit. and also u have no delay for SoC proc on clean updated core.*

I managed to fix the proccing, but I'm not sure of the twisting.
Delay was added in 9ae8aa07314a443b8679f55bddccff08ac5475d7 and it should now be delayed also with judgement... but I'm not sure how is the timing correct, probably it is not at all.

This weekend and the upcoming week I should have more time and with LordUsagi we will try to fix this.

Seal Twisting now works with Seal of Light, Seal of Justice. But still does not work with Seal of Blood. Apparently where there is not enough checks to print the blood could be triggered by Special Attack (Which is a proc Seal of Command)