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Re: Why can't Camilla be Queen?

I think England has it weird, like if there is a king there is no queen, and if there is a queen, there is no king...so when prince Charles does become king (after the queen dies), then there will only be a king and not a queen?

I could be absolutely wrong though :(

Do or do not, there is no try. - Master Jedi YodaHe's Kermit on acid who happens to carry a big stick when pissed off. Big deal. - ApokalupsisActually, didn't Frank Oz do Bert as well? We're cousins! - Withnail in reference to Bert and Yoda

Re: Why can't Camilla be Queen?

You have to be a royal to become Queen or King. And word has it that if Charles marries Camilla, he can't become King anymore. Considering his age, I doubt he cares about the throne.

But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

Re: Why can't Camilla be Queen?

Like a lot of people, I have always been interested in the royal family but don't understand why when Prince Charles becomes King Camilla can't be Queen. Fruit and Nut help me out here.

Big irony here, seeing as King Henry 'divorced????????????' his wife Queen Catherine and 'married' Anne Boleyn. She wouln't allow the carnal stuff until she saw that 'lil ol ring on her finger!!!!!! |)|

It is to do with the fact that Henry installed himself as head honcho of the Church of England. Although Henry messed about a bit divorcing and 'knocking off' wives, much of the practice of 'the church' still had a lot of Catholic content. This included problems with official recognition of remarriage in Church.

It was felt by the authorities (but not daring to say so during Henry's turbulent foray through the marriage bed), that for kings and queens to go on a divorce binge while 'Governor of the Church' was not really good form ('til death us do part and all that!) - and that it would set a bad example to the 'footsoldiers'.

Since Charles I had his head separated from his body rather abruptly for wanting his own way, royals have tended to 'officially' take note of parliamentry and public feelings and sensibilities.

For a while now there have been separate and distinct 'Royal Marriages Acts'. When King Edward VIII (never formally crowned) wanted to marry the American socialite Wallace Simpson, there was the problem that she was a divorcee with a living 'Ex'. As the Royal Marriages Act 1908 (I believe that was the date), was in force, he was forbidden to officially marry in Church with all the razzamataz and ceremonial required and still be king. Edward had to choose between Crown and Crumpet. There was much bad feeling among the populus against Wallace, whom the people saw as a kind of 'Siren' figure drawing Edward away from his kingly purpose. In the the end, Edward chose Crumpet and handed over the Crown to his younger bro. who became King George VI. The ammendments in the 'Royal Marriages Act 1947' eased things a bit, but not enough.

All this left a bitter, confused and embarrassing legacy among the people, establishment and church. The more so as Edward and Wallace showed all the signs of being pro-Hitler and his gang.

In the case of Charles and Camilla, it is more than just Camilla being a divorcee with a living 'Ex'. It is also the fact that she was/is seen as being the 'other woman' throughout Charles' marriage to Diana 'Princess of Wales'; and indeed, being part of the trail that led to Diana's death. Many saw her as being the cause of the royal divorce. Diana was pressured to divorce Charles, as for Charles to divorce her would be seen as 'bad form' and have complications. (Not least, the fact that MUMMY was spitting out her Royal Soother over everything - she never really approved of Charles' Other. )

The royal connection with the Church of England, and the problems it has over royal divorce, has led to a continuance of marriages of 'concession', rather than of the 'heart'. This in turn has led to mistresses, lovers and official embarrassment over the years. The 'bad press' and cartoonery that Camilla has had to face has been bordering on the downright cruel at times. All this mess has fuelled much resistence to the idea of Camilla ever being accepted as Queen Consort - additionally this feeling (including MUMMY'S say so) has led Charles to accept that she may not have the title of 'Princess of Wales', or indeed be any official form of princess. It has made Charles resentful of interference, and fuelled his recent bout of 'spleen venting'. While the royal connection remains with the Church of England, so such problems will increasingly occur. Charles himself has referred to the royal link as being a bit of an anacronism. His first choice as a marriage partner was denied him as she was a Catholic!!!!!!! - Ooooh, 'quelle horreur!!!!!!!

ps. To become King, you must be male and next in line for the throne. A male heir has presidence over an older female sibling. To become Queen in your own right, you must be first in line female heir with no male siblings. When a Prince marries, his wife automatically becomes a princess. When the Prince becomes King, his wife becomes Queen (Consort). The Queen's mother(Queen Mother) was a Queen Consort until King George VI's death. It used to be impossible for a King or Queen, or heir to the throne to marry a 'commoner', but that has been relaxed for some time. There is always a 'problem' when they marry us prols. as 'we' have not been brought up with the ethos of 'nobility' and 'we' are not familiar with all the required protocols.

Last edited by FruitandNut; March 2nd, 2005 at 03:45 AM.

"We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.Emitte lucem et veritatem - Send out light and truth.'Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt' - Julius Caesar (rough translation, 'Men will think what they want to think')Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream? - Homer Simpson.

Re: Why can't Camilla be Queen?

FruitandNut, thanks for the explaination. It is all very interesting to me. One more question. Do you think Charles will become King? How popular is he? Espicially now that he is remarrying. The whole world loved Diana and now William and Harry. Do you think Charles will choose not to be king and William will be next? Is William too young?

Re: Why can't Camilla be Queen?

Originally Posted by Sam

FruitandNut, thanks for the explaination. It is all very interesting to me. One more question. Do you think Charles will become King? How popular is he? Espicially now that he is remarrying. The whole world loved Diana and now William and Harry. Do you think Charles will choose not to be king and William will be next? Is William too young?

Lots of people feel that it would be best for Charles to pass to William, the monarchy currently looks very outdated and skipping to William would be the obvious solution. I don't think he's too young, Elizabeth II came to the throne 50+ years ago so she couldn't have been too much older.

- MikeMAKEPOVERTYHISTORY
"Overcoming poverty is not a gesture of charity. It is an act of justice." - Nelson Mandela, 2005

Re: Why can't Camilla be Queen?

I go with my fellow Limey on this one. There are too many issues that would make Charles an unpopular King, despite the fact(apparently) that he is personally a nice and caring chap in his own way. As William has been groomed for eventual kingship, and he would have a lot of support in any early years, I do not think he would make a 'pig's ear of things'. If the Queen has been passed on her mother's genes for longevity, she will outlive them all anyway. I believe her mother was 101 before Gabriel blew time on her.

I also feel that William would be a lot more popular in the Commonwealth, importantly, Canada, Australia and New Zealand and the other countries that still feature The Queen as 'official' Head of State through their own locally appointed Governor Generals.

ps. Mike, don't remind me of my age!!! I remember going to a (Royal Signals) kids' party in Catterick Camp.

Last edited by FruitandNut; March 3rd, 2005 at 04:10 AM.

"We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.Emitte lucem et veritatem - Send out light and truth.'Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt' - Julius Caesar (rough translation, 'Men will think what they want to think')Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream? - Homer Simpson.

Re: Why can't Camilla be Queen?

Originally Posted by RTShatto

I think England has it weird, like if there is a king there is no queen, and if there is a queen, there is no king...so when prince Charles does become king (after the queen dies), then there will only be a king and not a queen?

I could be absolutely wrong though :(

That's sort of right. Like in a pack of cards, King is higher than Queen. So, if a royal becomes King it is perfectly fine for them to marry someone who would become Queen. However, if a female royal ascends to the throne, their husband cannot be King, eg. Queen Elizabeth II's husband is Prince Philip.

No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgement of his equals or by the law of the land.
- The Magna Carta, 1225

Re: Why can't Camilla be Queen?

Froodian reference there Mog. A right royal 'House of Cards'?????????

"We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.Emitte lucem et veritatem - Send out light and truth.'Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt' - Julius Caesar (rough translation, 'Men will think what they want to think')Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream? - Homer Simpson.