<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> We've had an awful lot of really terrible reporting on the so-called Fast and Furious "scandal," primarily from the right, Fox "News" and right wing hate talk and in the mean time, we also were lucky enough to have some good reporting on the issue, like Cenk here from this week, or Rachel Maddow from this week as well. This Saturday on Chris Hayes' show on MSNBC, we were treated to even more in depth coverage of the issue with this really great interview of Forbes reporter Katherine Eban.

If anyone has not read the entire article yet, here's the link: The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal.

Here's a rough transcript of the early portion of Eban's time on the show and the portion about the kids being paid for the gun walking and how ATF's hands were tied was just astounding to me, but in this day and age with the NRA having the hold it does over our members of Congress, nothing should be surprising these days.</div></div>

Oh boy. All the RW nutjobs here and the entire GOP just got smacked down.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">EBAN: A straw purchaser is basically somebody the cartels tap who can legally go and buy weapons, so in Arizona that might be an 18 year old kid who is not old enough to buy beer, but who, if he has no criminal record, or she, can go into a gun dealership and buy 50 AK47's, pay in cash and face no waiting period, no need for extra permits.

So there are lots of kids in Arizona for example who want to make a few extra bucks. This is what they do.

HAYES: And the cartels find them. You go and buy the gun and give them to the cartels...

EBAN: That's right, or you give them to intermediaries, who give them to the cartels.

HAYES: <span style='font-size: 14pt'>In one of the cases, one of the folks they investigated, the ATF, was on food stamps, but had made $300,000 in purchases of weaponry. And so the initial problem they face though, right, was what? Why didn't they just, when the straw purchaser, the 18 year old kid walks out of the Arizona gun shop, right, slap the hand cuffs on him and bring the whole force of federal law down on him?

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>EBAN: Because that kid just made a legal purchase, and as prosecutors determined, there was nothing in the laws that gave the ATF agents grounds to seize those guns or to make those arrests.</span>

I mean, you can complain all you want that guns were walked. However, we are a nation of laws. And I can assure you that if ATF agents were running amok making baseless seizures...

HAYES: Of law abiding citizens purchasing guns...

EBAN: …that's right.

HAYES: ...that would have been a political firestorm.

EBAN:<span style='font-size: 23pt'> They would have been hauled before Congress. The reason I can say that with confidence is because that is exactly what happened in 2006, that ATF agents were hauled before Congress for making allegedly illegal seizures of suspected straw purchasers at a gun show in Virginia.</span></span> </div></div>

<span style="color: #CC0000">BTW........70% of guns retrieved in Mexico from the cartels come from the US of A.</span>

When an 18 yr old kid with no job,who is on food stamps can buy $300,000 worth of heavy weapons..... then the NRA can't play the shocked innocent when its they who have created this free for all with guns.

Its a business. The gun sellers want to sell guns. They don't care who gets hurt.

Very well ... "NO SCANDAL HERE" went straight from the regime's hips to your lips without ever passing through the cognitive part of your brain.

Gayle in MD

07-03-2012, 05:57 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">EBAN: A straw purchaser is basically somebody the cartels tap who can legally go and buy weapons, so in Arizona that might be an 18 year old kid who is not old enough to buy beer, but who, if he has no criminal record, or she, can go into a gun dealership and buy 50 AK47's, pay in cash and face no waiting period, no need for extra permits.

</div></div>

So anyone paying attention to this whole story, anyone with half a brain, that is, would immediately think, OMG, we MUST tighten up these ridiculous gun laws in this country. This is outrageous!

Which is exactly what Reiglicans knew would be the thoughts of reasonable Americans, and hence, Repiglicans did what Repiglicans always do, created their standard flip-flop myth, accusing their opposition, of exactly what they themselves have done, being irresponsible and radical, hence they skewed their own reaction, lied about their immediate effort to protect their bribers, the NRA, from the blowback, by saying this was a stealth effort by the PResident, to tighten gun laws, when in fact, this was a Repiglican effort, to protect the NRA's profits, regardless of how dangerous for our country, or for Mexico, that our lack of gun laws is insane!!!

A pre-emptive strike, against what might grow into a war on irresponsible, insane, ridiculous gun laws, or the lack thereof.

Anyway we slice it, it shines a spot light of absurd gun laws, and the Repuiglicans knew that much from the start, hence, the cover up they immediately launched. turn it around and use it against the man they hate, one of the best men to ever sleep in the White House.

Very well ... "NO SCANDAL HERE" went straight from the regime's hips to your lips without ever passing through the cognitive part of your brain. </div></div>

It never ceases to amazement that whenever I say something like this ... the cabalists will trip ver each other to see who can show devotion to the regime first by proving my claim to be true. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="color: #990000"> <span style='font-size: 14pt'>
Gayle and LWW, we all now completely understand that you two don't like each other. No real need to keep belaboring the point.

My suggestion now is to ignore each other.

Any posts from either of you pointing at the other one will result in an immediate (and very long) ban.

The guiding conspiracy theory is a non-starter, given the undeniable facts that existed before this program.

That is, the estimate is that 2,000 guns cross the US/Mexico border EVERY FRICKING DAY. Obviously the border states provide much of them, as in, 860 gun stores in one city in Arizona on or near the border. Gotta be millions over the years.

So, even though all kinds of US weapons are found in Mexico seizures always, somehow, we needed about 1/365th of the annual supplied US weapons to be added into the mix, so as to prove US weapons go to Mexico?

How does that make a lick of sense? (Of course, it doesn't need to for those who cannot think rationally.)

Qtec

07-06-2012, 02:42 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How does that make a lick of sense? (Of course, it doesn't need to for those who cannot think rationally.) </div></div>

Or those who choose not to. Those who are so filled with hate against Obama, any lie will be thankfully received.

In Mexico, the preferred method of execution is beheading. No need for guns. There enough video's on the net showing torture etc etc which shows the Cartels have absolutely no respect for life. They are out of control.

Put it this way, rather be shot than get captured alive.

All this BS about guns crossing the border, when because of the NRA, a guy on food stamps can buy $300,000 worth of AKs and the Feds can't touch him!

Q

Gayle in MD

07-06-2012, 03:28 AM

Yes, NRA has been very bad for our country, and their support relies on unbalanced Americans, who are quite ill, and very suceptable to choose to vote for others who are as irrational as they are.

Just look at the denial on this forum about F & F, an obvious Republican political scam, prosecuted against a good, honest and decent man, by a former car thief THUG!

The guiding conspiracy theory is a non-starter, given the undeniable facts that existed before this program.

That is, the estimate is that 2,000 guns cross the US/Mexico border EVERY FRICKING DAY. Obviously the border states provide much of them, as in, 860 gun stores in one city in Arizona on or near the border. Gotta be millions over the years.

So, even though all kinds of US weapons are found in Mexico seizures always, somehow, we needed about 1/365th of the annual supplied US weapons to be added into the mix, so as to prove US weapons go to Mexico?

How does that make a lick of sense? (Of course, it doesn't need to for those who cannot think rationally.)

"There are more than 800 federally licensed gun shops in the Phoenix area alone."

I've seen it stated many times in other sources as well.

Qtec

07-08-2012, 02:01 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr. Issa's investigation did not touch on the true problem.The weapons that have been used in Mexico's tragic narcowar - which has claimed 45,000 lives - have come primarily from north of the border, especially Arizona.

Many of the weapons are purchased by legal "straw buyers," who sell them to the cartels. Investigators found that <u>a man who was eligible for food stamps managed to buy 476 guns over six months.</u> Investigators also have found that guns have been sold to Mexican drug criminals for as much as $10,000 each.

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>Yet Mr. Issa opened hearings by announcing there would be no testimony about gun laws.</span> </div></div>

If Issa really cared about Mexican cartels getting US guns then he would have to address this issue. He doesn't. He ignores it.

The fact is that the US gun industry along with the NRA fuels the conflict in Mexico and makes a lot of money doing so.

IMO this will come back and bite the USA in the a$$. These Cartel guys are nuts. They are slowly turning your neighbour/Mexico into a lawless state.

That can't be good.

Q

eg8r

07-08-2012, 04:51 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its a business. The gun sellers want to sell guns. They don't care who gets hurt.</div></div>Nope, the Obama administration did not care who got hurt either.