If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

It's not about one package over the other. All of the tools are valid but understand, that there is no point rejecting something on a public forum that you don't have personal experience with. It would be like me saying "I won't buy an Epic Monochrome because I've read that RED has terrible customer service so I don't want to be stranded one day." I don't blame the guys that have had terrible experiences from Red customer support and are voicing their experience but the guys that bitch about it on set that have never had that experience and detract others are just talking nonesense and helping no one. There's far too much of that on here.
Thanks for posting that video though, it gave me a laugh.

PS - All of my experience with RED customer service has been stellar, just using it as an example to prove a point.

I almost want to sell my CS5 suite...Did that to Apple when they screwed me... But the thing is Adobe has been putting the crunch to us before this with forcing us to update more readily. This is just one more step in there Monty Burns direction. They think they got us cuz there products rock, which they do. But not all of us want this model clearly...I wanted to personally run all three suites, Apple, Avid, Adobe and update as infrequently as possible on all unless needed. So FCP7 and CS6 are then EOL and you guys now totally threw me a curve ball is whats happening? Great...

How is it that hedging myself against 3 different NLE's I still got screwed by 2?

I'm having a hard time deciding which is worse at the moment: Adobe's rental only future, or those coming on here that are happy with the rental model that's under no threat, giving the rest of us $hit for expressing our disgust at having our choice taken away.

I'm Al, the Adobe Premiere Pro Product Manager. I'm new to this forum (hi!) but I wanted to introduce myself and try to clarify some points.

Historically, Adobe has run on a 12-18 month release cycle, and licenses were perpetual. This meant that, were we to (for example) release a new product in May, if we were to hear from the community in June that there was an absolutely critical feature that we were lacking, the earliest we could provide customers with that feature would be the following May. This is not an internal Adobe thing, it's due to very limiting and strict revenue recognition laws which prevent the addition of new features to perpetual license customers at zero cost.

The Creative Cloud model changes all this. Because it's a subscription system, we are going to be able to add new features to the software much more regularly than the 12-18 month release cycle, and I predict you'll start seeing this change pretty soon. This, I believe, provides significant added value to Creative Cloud when compared to the previous model. Creative Cloud allows us to much more aggressively develop, and in these days of light-speed technological change, this will, I hope, be a great benefit. And note that you can have your apps installed on two separate machines, even one Mac and one PC, and use the apps on both.

I'd also like to dispel a couple of misconceptions. Firstly, this is not some kind of hosted service. These are the same applications, installed locally, that you would have got if we sold them on a DVD. The only difference is that you install them via a download. We are not hosting your files (unless you want us to!). Secondly, you do not need to be permanently connected to the internet. If you're on a monthly subscription, there is a mandatory check-in every 30 days to check you've paid, and there is a 7-day grace period if you haven't. If you buy a year in advance, that check-in period is 180 days.

Regarding pricing, we've pitched it at a point where the majority of users who upgrade regularly are likely to be paying less, for more frequent updates, access to all of our apps, and the CC community. If you use the special offer we have currently, you can get all of what would have been 'Master Collection' for 30 dollars US a month.

I realize that this is a big change, and I'm sure that some of you feel strongly enough to go elsewhere, but i hope this at least clarifies some points. I'll hang around this thread over the next days, so if you have questions feel free to ask them.

I'm Al, the Adobe Premiere Pro Product Manager. I'm new to this forum (hi!) but I wanted to introduce myself and try to clarify some points.

I realize that this is a big change, and I'm sure that some of you feel strongly enough to go elsewhere, but i hope this at least clarifies some points. I'll hang around this thread over the next days, so if you have questions feel free to ask them.

thanks
al.

Al - you're a brave man stepping into the lion's den :)

The issue is complex - but for me (and I think many others) it comes down to the fact that you're basically renting the software. Once you stop with a CC licence, you software is dead and you can't open any files or legacy projects. To do that, you'll need to subscribe again.

Now, you may say that Adobe can add more features and increase iterations between full releases, and I can see this completely.

But, the big caveat is lack of ownership and ability to have a perpetual licence.

Also, being based in Europe, prices here are not as good as the US, so it's often better to purchase a full licence - be it web install or DVD (this applies to software across the board - only a few programs actually charge a fair price here - but that's yet another discussion!).

My two cents and an 'easy fix' on this is to offer an 'Exit' licence... basically, if you cancel your CC and want to have a perpetual licence on your system you pay a fee that makes that licence permanent. You can't upgrade (etc), but, at least that way, if you want to maintain a licence on your machine (or studio) you have the 'option' to do so.

The backlash, IMO, is because Adobe have 'removed' choice - and not provided an option like this.

I'm Al, the Adobe Premiere Pro Product Manager. I'm new to this forum (hi!) but I wanted to introduce myself and try to clarify some points.

Historically, Adobe has run on a 12-18 month release cycle, and licenses were perpetual. This meant that, were we to (for example) release a new product in May, if we were to hear from the community in June that there was an absolutely critical feature that we were lacking, the earliest we could provide customers with that feature would be the following May. This is not an internal Adobe thing, it's due to very limiting and strict revenue recognition laws which prevent the addition of new features to perpetual license customers at zero cost.

The Creative Cloud model changes all this. Because it's a subscription system, we are going to be able to add new features to the software much more regularly than the 12-18 month release cycle, and I predict you'll start seeing this change pretty soon. This, I believe, provides significant added value to Creative Cloud when compared to the previous model. Creative Cloud allows us to much more aggressively develop, and in these days of light-speed technological change, this will, I hope, be a great benefit. And note that you can have your apps installed on two separate machines, even one Mac and one PC, and use the apps on both.

I'd also like to dispel a couple of misconceptions. Firstly, this is not some kind of hosted service. These are the same applications, installed locally, that you would have got if we sold them on a DVD. The only difference is that you install them via a download. We are not hosting your files (unless you want us to!). Secondly, you do not need to be permanently connected to the internet. If you're on a monthly subscription, there is a mandatory check-in every 30 days to check you've paid, and there is a 7-day grace period if you haven't. If you buy a year in advance, that check-in period is 180 days.

Regarding pricing, we've pitched it at a point where the majority of users who upgrade regularly are likely to be paying less, for more frequent updates, access to all of our apps, and the CC community. If you use the special offer we have currently, you can get all of what would have been 'Master Collection' for 30 dollars US a month.

I realize that this is a big change, and I'm sure that some of you feel strongly enough to go elsewhere, but i hope this at least clarifies some points. I'll hang around this thread over the next days, so if you have questions feel free to ask them.

thanks
al.

Hi Al. Thanks for dropping in to clarify some points. However, the only thing you've said that I was unaware of was the 180 day login period. It doesn't change how this works. As a customer who has updated over recent years through to CS6, if the subscription model enabled me to update and KEEP the updated software - in working condition - if I decided to drop out at any time, that would be a fair deal. Those just starting out in the cloud would obviously not get that option. But to be no different to someone coming out of the blue and paying rent is unacceptable. You are removing choice. Why?

And you're saying there's a law that says you cannot provide updates for free? To paying customers? Hmm...

In any case, why take away our choice? If I don't care about constant updates (I'd find updates more often than once every few months a p.i.t.a. anyway due to having to reinstall all my plug-ins each time), why can't I buy into new software when I feel like it? Why are you removing your original source of revenue to this so-far shortlived moneymaking method?

Welcome and thanks for shimming in. As for your post, I think all that is pretty clear. However, it doesn't erase the fact that it is a step back compared to the previous model. Lets compare this to the competition- not in quality, but in service. FCPX is a software I own and can install in 5 computers. It had since its release 8 updates, which where free. Lets look at adobe: Premiere Cs6 also had a couple of stability and small enhancements for free. Now in CC, I will not own the software, will be paying about 600 USD a year, and will be getting "free" updates. How long ago has FCPX come out ? About 2 years? Including the other pro apps, this would mean , in new Adobe World, at least 1200 USD, a lot more than I paid for the Apple software which is constantly updating with features.

Lets not forget that new "features" often come with bugs and need time to mature and be stable. If I get CC, prudence tels me to not immediately update and see if it works well with OS, Rocket, etc. If I'm subscription based, I feel like I'm paying for something that should be right in the first place and that I should own. Yes its 30 or 50 dollars a month, but it feels like I can be kicked out of the house if I miss rent for a month or two.

Anyway, you guys know best what business you run. I'm back to Apple. Hope someone makes an affordable alternative to after effects!