Like oh yeah MS loves Linux and open source now, sure, but that's because they _won_. Free desktops are essentially zero in the market, even Mac OS isn't a viable option for a lot of people, and they successfully capitalize on that in extremely predatory ways

"so you like this cute little side project... the likelihood is that most people probably never heard of it before today. [...] The reality is I highly doubt anybody heard of MauiKit, and frankly nobody cares."

Fuck Microsoft. They take FOSS work, both technical and conceptual, without so much as attribution; they collaborate with the police and ICE; they destroyed the personal computing market almost singlehandedly.

@tindall I wonder how many people who are so enamored with modern Microsoft were around back when they tried this before. There's a ton more people into programming and tech than there was 20-25 years ago when "embrace, extend, extinguish" was the plan of attack by them.

My hope would be most people wouldn't just forget about that... but then again, my faith in human logic has been shaken much in recent times.

@datatitian@clacke@vsedach I strongly suspect a "No True Scotsman" argument is coming here - if it _doesn't_ use [x, y, z], is it really "modern"?

It's entirely possible to build websites, even web applications, without JavaScript. I suggest you take a listen to The Bikeshed from ThoughtBot, they talk a lot about when they do and don't reach for JavaScript in client projects.

@tindall@clacke@vsedach I mean modern by date - something currently in production. I just checked Wikipedia because that was the only one I could think of that might not have complex JS, but even that has a minified script - therefore requiring NPM to deploy. Again do you have any examples?

@datatitian @vsedach A large part of the web is driven by CMSes invented before WebPack and friends. Maybe there's some minified stuff like @tindall says below, but you don't need npm to minify, and it's not even necessary to minify things if it comes to that.

@vsedach@tindall@clacke I just got out of a vr meeting in my web browser than spanned multiple, federated virtual worlds with people hundreds of miles apart, but y'all go ahead and enjoy your web 1.0 sites 👍

@datatitian@tindall@clacke Thank you! I have been enjoying them very much! emacs-w3m is an awesome web browser, and re-doing my blog/website as static no-JavaScript accessible HTML generated by a short Makefile turned out to be one of the better decisions I made in 2018.

@tindall "And then, I didn’t hear anything back from anyone at Microsoft for six months." Promises of corporate acquisition/partnership to steal ideas was standard Microsoft practice in the 1980s and 1990s. This Keivan guy basically did a bunch of very high value consulting for Microsoft for free.