Weapon should be first for us also. Might not be much, but if you are still progressing, more often than not i think, its gonna matter if you will be able to pull 1k more dps, then just having 70 more stamina + 50 strength and some secondary stats. I have no math to back that up, but i feel that tank dps matters a lot(10 man PoV).

daishan wrote:Where would the shield come in that list do you think?Low on stats but has a massive armour budget.

Good question. Armor is a big stat for us, so shield might be a decent choice. I'll look at the math for that later.

Hespherus wrote:Weapon should be first for us also. Might not be much, but if you are still progressing, more often than not i think, its gonna matter if you will be able to pull 1k more dps, then just having 70 more stamina + 50 strength and some secondary stats. I have no math to back that up, but i feel that tank dps matters a lot(10 man PoV).

Except you might get more DPS from upgrading your chest, because weapon DPS is fairly weak for us compared to most other classes. Remember that the only thing in our arsenal that scales with weapon DPS is Crusader Strike, while everything scales with AP.

theckhd wrote:Except you might get more DPS from upgrading your chest, because weapon DPS is fairly weak for us compared to most other classes. Remember that the only thing in our arsenal that scales with weapon DPS is Crusader Strike, while everything scales with AP.

I stand corrected then. I wouldve thought that the strength, stamina + secondary stats on top of that dps would prove to be a higher dps increase than chest/legs/helm.

theckhd wrote:Except you might get more DPS from upgrading your chest, because weapon DPS is fairly weak for us compared to most other classes. Remember that the only thing in our arsenal that scales with weapon DPS is Crusader Strike, while everything scales with AP.

I stand corrected then. I wouldve thought that the strength, stamina + secondary stats on top of that dps would prove to be a higher dps increase than chest/legs/helm.

Going from the LFR Kilrak weapon at 483 item level to the normal version (496) you get:

89 Sta60 Str39 Mastery (0.22)41 Hit (0.4%)

Upgrading a Breastplate of the King's Guard from LFR (476) to normal (489) you get

How much more dps though?. Im not concerned with my survivability that much(i am hit/exp capped and 600k unbuffed though), i am concerned about killing stuff faster and doing my best to help that happening.

Note that this is with SoT too, but that doesn't depend on weapon DPS and it's a small contribution. So you get about 630 DPS by upgrading Kilrak by 13 ilvls, or about 560 DPS if you're already at hit-cap. The actual value will be closer to the first value, assuming you're reforging for hit/exp caps.

Using Fetzie's numbers, you get 196 STA and 94 haste by upgrading the breastplate. Nothing else gives a DPS contribution. At 100k Vengeance, strength gives you about 1.31 DPS per point. The strength is going to give you about 257 DPS, and the haste about 172 DPS, for a total of 429 DPS from upgrading the chest. If the other secondary stat had been a DPS stat as well (ex: hit or exp), then we'd be effectively getting another 76 haste, for an additional 139 DPS, giving us 568. Not quite the match of the weapon upgrade, but awfully close.

So the weapon will probably edge out the chest/legs/helm slots for raw DPS. Especially on items that have reduced strength itemization.

Certainly of relevance, though I don't know that it will change the results very much. Tlitp has been working on the enchant modeling code (I think), so this will probably complicate his job (more states to consider).

I'm just wondering if those double buffs will stack, or it's just a cosmetic thing to make tracking the buffs easier.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

As for how mcuh AP STR (or AGI) contributes, I am unsure - I am working from 1 base unit = 2 AP, but the ingame tooltip disagrees with me (though the ingame tooltip disagreed at the time where it was known to be tru as well).

now a concrete explanation how vengeance works exactly would be awesome (I tried to find it here but my search skills seem to be non-present today...) as they changed vengeance to not skale with overdeath damage, Stamina should make a, even tho it would be tiny I guess, DPS contribution, doesn't it?

It's 1.3 DPS per strength, the plots show DPS per 10 itemization points.

Nooska wrote:14 AP also increases the AP component of scaling, while increasing the weapon damage component, so abilities with weapon damage and AP scaling double dip into AP.

While true, we don't have any more abilities that do this. HotR was the last one, and now just scales off of normalized weapon damage.

Nooska wrote:As for how mcuh AP STR (or AGI) contributes, I am unsure - I am working from 1 base unit = 2 AP, but the ingame tooltip disagrees with me (though the ingame tooltip disagreed at the time where it was known to be tru as well).

It's 2 points of AP per point of strength. The exact formula is in stat_model:

Schroom wrote:now a concrete explanation how vengeance works exactly would be awesome (I tried to find it here but my search skills seem to be non-present today...) as they changed vengeance to not skale with overdeath damage, Stamina should make a, even tho it would be tiny I guess, DPS contribution, doesn't it?

It averages out to 40% of the boss's pre-mitigation DPS output (2% of damage done in the last 20 seconds, or 0.02*(DPS*20)=0.4*DPS). I'm not sure I've seen a good explanation of how the overkill suppression works - my guess is that they hard-coded certain abilities like Annihilate (Spirit Kings) to generate Vengeance based on damage done instead of pre-mitigation DPS. It's also possible that they just capped the Vengeance gain from any single attack based on your health though.

I am sorry for asking a daft question, but in the stats dps calculations why does the value of expertise drop after 7.5%? I had got it in my mind from the holy power/control arguments about gearing for survivability that expertise had a constant value up to 15%. Am I wrong or if not, what changes when we consider dps rather than survivability?