I love how governments want to use "x terrorist used this encrypted thing" as an excuse for demanding magic keys.As if they would have caught them before the event if they had used an unencrypted thing instead.

They can't monitor that much data in real time, and if they could, I'd be very scared.

Even when they do have the info in time, they often don't even respond anyway...

There are so many other things that could be improved before "we need to see literally every message ever sent by anyone"

I love how governments want to use "x terrorist used this encrypted thing" as an excuse for demanding magic keys.As if they would have caught them before the event if they had used an unencrypted thing instead.

They can't monitor that much data in real time, and if they could, I'd be very scared.

Even when they do have the info in time, they often don't even respond anyway...

There are so many other things that could be improved before "we need to see literally every message ever sent by anyone"

With AI they can monitor more and more data in real time. Soon everything will be monitored.

"The NYT said the ban will put the Kremlin in a slightly awkward position, because many inside the government, including those in President Vladimir Putin's press office, use Telegram. Russia's Foreign Ministry has announced that it's moving to the Viber messaging app, the NYT reported, citing the Interfax news agency."

Does Viber do E2E encryption? If it does, then banning Telegram is pointless. Welcome to the world of whack-a-mole, Russia. If it doesn't, then does that mean the Russian government is moving to a less secure app? If so, that's great news for spies everywhere! Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! Haha!

So how is Viber any different than Telegram? Both are end to end encryption where there is no "Master" key. Or is this Russia's way of saying they've worked something our with Viber when it comes to communications in Russia?

It seems a little odd that they would ban one for not cooperating with them and then announce they are moving to another app that is essentially the same.

"The NYT said the ban will put the Kremlin in a slightly awkward position, because many inside the government, including those in President Vladimir Putin's press office, use Telegram. Russia's Foreign Ministry has announced that it's moving to the Viber messaging app, the NYT reported, citing the Interfax news agency."

Does Viber do E2E encryption? If it does, then banning Telegram is pointless. Welcome to the world of whack-a-mole, Russia. If it doesn't, then does that mean the Russian government is moving to a less secure app? If so, that's great news for spies everywhere! Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! Haha!

As part of our commitment to user privacy and security, all chats on Viber are secured by end-to-end encryption.

End-to-end encryption means that data (all types of messages, photos, videos, voice and video calls) is encrypted (or scrambled) the moment it is sent from one device until it reaches the intended recipient. This data can't be picked up in the middle by anyone else, not even Viber.

We don't store any chat information on our servers once it has been delivered to the recipient. If there is a problem delivering the message, it will remain encrypted until the receiver gets it, and disappear from the server once it has been delivered.

We can't share what we don't have with anyone else, even our parent company Rakuten. You won't start seeing ads related to something you were just talking about with a friend on Viber.

I love how governments want to use "x terrorist used this encrypted thing" as an excuse for demanding magic keys.As if they would have caught them before the event if they had used an unencrypted thing instead.

They can't monitor that much data in real time, and if they could, I'd be very scared.

Even when they do have the info in time, they often don't even respond anyway...

There are so many other things that could be improved before "we need to see literally every message ever sent by anyone"

With AI they can monitor more and more data in real time. Soon everything will be monitored.

The real question is whether or not they'll act on the info. AI that can actually discern threats from sarcasm/intentionally satirical statements is still at least 20 years off (generously), plus at some point a human has to be able to parse through the collected data, lest we want to birth AM from I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream.

Best case scenario is that your life is mundane enough that you can get by securely in obscurity. Worst case is that you slip up once and get screwed because the algorithm got your number that day.

"The NYT said the ban will put the Kremlin in a slightly awkward position, because many inside the government, including those in President Vladimir Putin's press office, use Telegram. Russia's Foreign Ministry has announced that it's moving to the Viber messaging app, the NYT reported, citing the Interfax news agency."

Does Viber do E2E encryption? If it does, then banning Telegram is pointless. Welcome to the world of whack-a-mole, Russia. If it doesn't, then does that mean the Russian government is moving to a less secure app? If so, that's great news for spies everywhere! Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! Haha!

Yes Viber is E2E. Pretty much no difference in Viber and Telegram except they haven't asked for a Viber magic unlock all doors key that doesn't exist yet.

The difference might be in how the information is used. Does the US Government disappear or harass law abiding Americans for their opinions online?

Well, the answer is no, but if it were yes, would we really know? And do you really trust the answer of the US government that much?

yes, we would know, because all the crazy people with heavy anti-government stances wouldn't be all over the place like they presently are. And most are so blatently out there that you know exactly where they live. And today, with cameras everywhere, it is almost impossible for something crazy to happen and it not end up all over the news.

Except the FBI doesn't have the power to ban apps. Nor is it under the control of a dictator (If it were, the current news cycle would look considerably different.

The FBI would love to have a key to everything, but they don't and can't force the issue without actual changes to the law.

So "Straight out of their playbook" maybe, except they don't have the power to implement it.

The FSB is able to do this because of the law passed in Russia requiring backdoors in everything. It's literally identical to the situation the FBI has been pushing for for years. And if you haven't noticed, such an asinine law is much more likely to be passed today than it was three years ago.

Can we go one fucking thread on this website without getting derailed by "BUT MUH US GOVT IS EXACTLY THE SAME" and "Just wait, It'll happen here SOON (TM)" false equivalencies and just discuss the actual matter at hand? /rant

Anyways, more on topic, considering it seems that a large part of the development team is actually based in Russia/are Russian nationals on the run, how much personal danger are these people facing if they fail to comply?

They can't monitor that much data in real time, and if they could, I'd be very scared.

Yes , yes they can. You really don't know what kind of hardware the NSA has. Hell most of us don't but we can guess what some of their facilities are running based on some of the utilities they use.Suffice it to say if they don't need to break encryption. Monitoring is nothing for them. Now Russia. No idea.

Can we go one fucking thread on this website without getting derailed by "BUT MUH US GOVT IS EXACTLY THE SAME" and "Just wait, It'll happen here SOON (TM)" false equivalencies and just discuss the actual matter at hand? /rant

Anyways, more on topic, considering it seems that a large part of the development team is actually based in Russia/are Russian nationals on the run, how much personal danger are these people facing if they fail to comply?

Except the FBI doesn't have the power to ban apps. Nor is it under the control of a dictator (If it were, the current news cycle would look considerably different.

The FBI would love to have a key to everything, but they don't and can't force the issue without actual changes to the law.

So "Straight out of their playbook" maybe, except they don't have the power to implement it.

The FSB is able to do this because of the law passed in Russia requiring backdoors in everything. It's literally identical to the situation the FBI has been pushing for for years. And if you haven't noticed, such an asinine law is much more likely to be passed today than it was three years ago.

If it passes, then you will be closer to correct. There are still other checks on the FBIs power and the amount of power Trump wields over the FBI is vastly different from the power Putin holds over the FSB. The checks and balances in the government do make a huge difference here.

This is a fantastic boon for our intelligence agencies. How long do you think it will be before the CIA gets a copy of the backdoor password for the Russian approved messaging app and passes it on the NSA.

"The NYT said the ban will put the Kremlin in a slightly awkward position, because many inside the government, including those in President Vladimir Putin's press office, use Telegram. Russia's Foreign Ministry has announced that it's moving to the Viber messaging app, the NYT reported, citing the Interfax news agency."

Does Viber do E2E encryption? If it does, then banning Telegram is pointless. Welcome to the world of whack-a-mole, Russia. If it doesn't, then does that mean the Russian government is moving to a less secure app? If so, that's great news for spies everywhere! Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! Haha!

Let's just say Viber is based out of Belarus and in order to send a message, you have to give it access to all of your contacts, which are uploaded to their servers. You are welcome to receive messages, you just cant start a new conversation.

This is a fantastic boon for our intelligence agencies. How long do you think it will be before the CIA gets a copy of the backdoor password for the Russian approved messaging app and passes it on the NSA.

And then they'll write it down and stick it to a monitor or something.

Anyways, more on topic, considering it seems that a large part of the development team is actually based in Russia/are Russian nationals on the run, how much personal danger are these people facing if they fail to comply?

Russia will just block Telegram on its territory. Though of course there is a possibility that the development team will get prosecuted for helping terrorists. Heck, if Backpage can get prosecuted for helping prostitutes, it's only reasonable to prosecute Telegram for helping terrorists.

"The NYT said the ban will put the Kremlin in a slightly awkward position, because many inside the government, including those in President Vladimir Putin's press office, use Telegram. Russia's Foreign Ministry has announced that it's moving to the Viber messaging app, the NYT reported, citing the Interfax news agency."

Does Viber do E2E encryption? If it does, then banning Telegram is pointless. Welcome to the world of whack-a-mole, Russia. If it doesn't, then does that mean the Russian government is moving to a less secure app? If so, that's great news for spies everywhere! Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! Haha!

Let's just say Viber is based out of Belarus and in order to send a message, you have to give it access to all of your contacts, which are uploaded to their servers. You are welcome to receive messages, you just cant start a new conversation.

Viber is owned by Rakuten a Japanese company... where are you getting it's based out of Belarus?