With this in mind, let us have a look at the Bible on several subjects.

The Sabbath Day“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5

The Permanence of Earth“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4

“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10

Seeing God“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18

Human Sacrifice“… Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God…” — Leviticus 18:21

[In Judges, though, the tale of Jephthah, who led the Israelites against the Ammonoites, is being told. Being fearful of defeat, this good religious man sought to guarantee victory by getting god firmly on his side. So he prayed to god] “… If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering” — Judges 11:30-31

[The terms were acceptable to god — remember, he is supposed to be omniscient and know the future — so he gave victory to Jephthah, and the first whatsoever that greeted him upon his glorious return was his daughter, as god surely knew would happen, if god is god. True to his vow, the general made a human sacrifice of his only child to god!] — Judges 11:29-34

The Power of God“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26

“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19

Now consider the case of Job. After commissioning Satan to ruin Job financially and to slaughter his shepherds and children to win a petty bet with Satan. God asked Satan: “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.” — Job 2:3

“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.” — Romans 13:11-12

“Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” — James 5:8

“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” — 1 John 2:18

“But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.” — 1 Peter 4:7

These words were written between 1800 and 1900 years ago and were meant to warn and prepare the first Christians for the immediate end of the world. Some words are those supposedly straight out of the mouth of the “Son of God.” The world did not end 1800 or 1900 years ago. All that generation passed away without any of the things foretold coming to pass. No amount of prayer brought it about; nor ever so much patience and belief and sober living. The world went on, as usual, indifferent to the spoutings of yet another batch of doomsday prophets with visions of messiahs dancing in their deluded brains. The world, by surviving, makes the above passages contradictions.

ConclusionWhat is incredible about the Bible is not its divine authorship; it’s that such a concoction of contradictory nonsense could be believed by anyone to have been written by an omniscient god. To do so, one would first have to not read the book, which is the practice of most Christians; or, if one does read it, dump in the trash can one’s rational intelligence — to become a fool for god, in other words.

To be an atheist, one need only be able to laugh when such obvious nonsense is offered as being “divine” truth.

All Bible quotes from the Authorized King James Version of the Bible (New York: Abradale Press, 1965)

This is an adaptation of an article originally written by former Interim President and current member of the Board of Directors Frank Zindler.

Why?Morons who are angry at God think there's sometype of competition here, that they have somethingto "Win."Clearly you feel as if you're "Losing" and aredesperate to some type of "Victory"...If you ever grasp what's going on here,what you're doing then you'll finallyunderstand how awful you look to everyoneoutside yourself.-- --http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/180404329073

______

How can a non-believer be "angry" at something the non-believer doesn't even believe exists?

Try this: Build up some seriously mean anger towards leprechauns. I mean put some ooomph into that anger. Make it border hate.

Post by JTEMGo away. As growing up seems impossible for you,just go away.

This is an atheist forum, shit-for-brains. It seems you haven't grown wise enough to realize that you have no real business posting here. On top of that, you're blatantly defying Matthew 10:14, you bogus "Christian."

Just stop. You're typing just to hear the click ofyour keyboard. You have nothing to say here and younever do.

Sure do. You've proven you're nothing but a bogus Christian prick.

How's THAT for "nothing to say"? And guess what? You've proven you're mentally-ill beyond all hope. Now THAT'S important info to let Christian lurkers to know about you. Goofy as all hell, you are. And a total imbecile on top of it.

Just stop. You're typing just to hear the click ofyour keyboard. You have nothing to say here and younever do.

Sure do. You've proven you're nothing but a bogus Christian prick.How's THAT for "nothing to say"? And guess what? You've proven you're mentally-ill beyond all hope. Now THAT'S important info to let Christian lurkers to know about you. Goofy as all hell, you are. And a total imbecile on top of it.

His comments are succinct and to the point. All you do is babble and ramble.

Just stop. You're typing just to hear the click ofyour keyboard. You have nothing to say here and younever do.

Sure do. You've proven you're nothing but a bogus Christian prick.How's THAT for "nothing to say"? And guess what? You've proven you're mentally-ill beyond all hope. Now THAT'S important info to let Christian lurkers to know about you. Goofy as all hell, you are. And a total imbecile on top of it.

His comments are succinct and to the point. All you do is babble and ramble.

Post by JTEMGo away. As growing up seems impossible for you,just go away.

This is an atheist forum, shit-for-brains. It seems you haven't grown wise enough to realize that you have no real business posting here. On top of that, you're blatantly defying Matthew 10:14, you bogus "Christian."

But that means you know exactly nothing about God.

the dukester, American-American

*****The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did inthe OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.*****

Post by JTEMGo away. As growing up seems impossible for you,just go away.

This is an atheist forum, shit-for-brains. It seems you haven't grown wise enough to realize that you have no real business posting here. On top of that, you're blatantly defying Matthew 10:14, you bogus "Christian."

But that means you know exactly nothing about God.

Uh, apparently YOU don't. You're defying Matthew 10:14, lie like there's no tomorrow, break Charter Rules, deceitful as all hell, and a total prick. I think your "God" is Satan, only you don't realize it.

Post by JTEMGo away. As growing up seems impossible for you,just go away.

This is an atheist forum, shit-for-brains. It seems you haven't grown wise enough to realize that you have no real business posting here. On top of that, you're blatantly defying Matthew 10:14, you bogus "Christian."

No, I'm not. Neither you nor I know the basis for where Matthew started tocount. Did he use full days or part days. When did his day start?

Post by Greywolf, break Charter Rules, deceitful as all hell, and a total prick. I think your "God" is Satan, only you don't realize it.How in the WORLD could you call such putrid behavior "Christian"?

I'm not trying to sucker in all your brother atheists by lying to them.

the dukester, American-American

*****The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did inthe OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.*****

Post by JTEMGo away. As growing up seems impossible for you,just go away.

This is an atheist forum, shit-for-brains. It seems you haven't grown wise enough to realize that you have no real business posting here. On top of that, you're blatantly defying Matthew 10:14, you bogus "Christian."

No, I'm not. Neither you nor I know the basis for where Matthew started tocount. Did he use full days or part days. When did his day start?

Post by Greywolf, break Charter Rules, deceitful as all hell, and a total prick. I think your "God" is Satan, only you don't realize it.How in the WORLD could you call such putrid behavior "Christian"?

I'm not trying to sucker in all your brother atheists by lying to them.

But that's all you do. How do you expect Christian Lurkers to follow your stupid-ass nonsense?

Post by dukethe dukester, American Farting Champion of alt.atheism. (He swallow them too!)

Post by JTEMGo away. As growing up seems impossible for you,just go away.

This is an atheist forum, shit-for-brains. It seems you haven't grown wise enough to realize that you have no real business posting here. On top of that, you're blatantly defying Matthew 10:14, you bogus "Christian."

No, I'm not. Neither you nor I know the basis for where Matthew started tocount. Did he use full days or part days. When did his day start?

Post by Greywolf, break Charter Rules, deceitful as all hell, and a total prick. I think your "God" is Satan, only you don't realize it.How in the WORLD could you call such putrid behavior "Christian"?

I'm not trying to sucker in all your brother atheists by lying to them.

But that's all you do. How do you expect Christian Lurkers to follow your stupid-ass nonsense?

They help me.

the dukester, American-American

*****The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did inthe OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.*****

Post by JTEMGo away. As growing up seems impossible for you,just go away.

This is an atheist forum, shit-for-brains. It seems you haven't grown wise enough to realize that you have no real business posting here. On top of that, you're blatantly defying Matthew 10:14, you bogus "Christian."

No, I'm not. Neither you nor I know the basis for where Matthew started tocount. Did he use full days or part days. When did his day start?

Post by Greywolf, break Charter Rules, deceitful as all hell, and a total prick. I think your "God" is Satan, only you don't realize it.How in the WORLD could you call such putrid behavior "Christian"?

I'm not trying to sucker in all your brother atheists by lying to them.

But that's all you do. How do you expect Christian Lurkers to follow your stupid-ass nonsense?

For atheists, the "ghod question" is irrelevant,until the theists shove it in our faces by, forexample, trolling an atheist newsgroup.

The really important annoyance for us is those trying toget the government to finance shoving the nonsense downour throats; established churches, mandating the teaching ofreligious beliefs in taxpayer-funded schools, etc.

For atheists, the "ghod question" is irrelevant,until the theists shove it in our faces by, forexample, trolling an atheist newsgroup.

Nobody forces you to read any post..

Post by KevrobThe really important annoyance for us is those trying toget the government to finance shoving the nonsense downour throats; established churches, mandating the teaching ofreligious beliefs in taxpayer-funded schools, etc.

"This life?" You act as if you get more than one. Areyou a Hindu, then?You are born, and you live. You make the most of life.Eventually, you die. Entropy gets us all, at least so far.Pretending your consciousness will survive death is a fantasy.

For atheists, the "ghod question" is irrelevant,until the theists shove it in our faces by, forexample, trolling an atheist newsgroup.

You call it trolling, but this _is_ a public newsgroup.So, anyone who wishes to is free to do so.

Post by KevrobThe really important annoyance for us is those trying toget the government to finance shoving the nonsense downour throats; established churches, mandating the teaching ofreligious beliefs in taxpayer-funded schools, etc.

Post by KevrobFor atheists, the "ghod question" is irrelevant,until the theists shove it in our faces by, forexample, trolling an atheist newsgroup.

You call it trolling, but this _is_ a public newsgroup.So, anyone who wishes to is free to do so.

You may post, but you are a troll for not following thecharter and FAQ.

[quote]

The Cat-Herding Rules and Regulations of alt.atheism and Some Information

1) All are welcome in the newsgroup, whether they're atheists or not, aslong as they are not trolls.2) Proselytizing of ANY religion is NOT welcome! (Those guilty of this badnettiquette will be treated as they deserve!)3) This newsgroup exists for atheists to discuss anything of interestto them and other atheists, although others who are honestlyinterested in joining a discussion and are not trolls arewelcome. Trolls will be treated as what they are.

Post by KevrobThe really important annoyance for us is those trying toget the government to finance shoving the nonsense downour throats; established churches, mandating the teaching ofreligious beliefs in taxpayer-funded schools, etc.

This seems to be the case of a few extremist fundamentalist.

So, you are willing to support taking religious mottoesoff our money, flags, and public buildings, and revertingthe Pledge of Allegiance to its pre-1950s SECULAR wording?Your denomination will be funding its military chaplains,rather than the taxpayers, from now on? Same for chaplainsfor other state institutions, like the Congress?

"This life?" You act as if you get more than one. Areyou a Hindu, then?

No, This is another belief of most theist.

An unsubstantiated one. We have no evidence of anyafterlife, though spiritualist charlatans make a lotof money faking communication with "the other side."Not all of them are priests or ministers, either.=

Post by KevrobFor atheists, the "ghod question" is irrelevant,until the theists shove it in our faces by, forexample, trolling an atheist newsgroup.

You call it trolling, but this _is_ a public newsgroup.So, anyone who wishes to is free to do so.

You may post, but you are a troll for not following thecharter and FAQ.[quote]The Cat-Herding Rules and Regulations of alt.atheism and Some Information1) All are welcome in the newsgroup, whether they're atheists or not, aslong as they are not trolls.2) Proselytizing of ANY religion is NOT welcome! (Those guilty of this badnettiquette will be treated as they deserve!)3) This newsgroup exists for atheists to discuss anything of interestto them and other atheists, although others who are honestlyinterested in joining a discussion and are not trolls arewelcome. Trolls will be treated as what they are.[/quote] -http://web.archive.org/web/20160314200548/http://alt-atheism.org/atheism:faq

Post by KevrobThe really important annoyance for us is those trying toget the government to finance shoving the nonsense downour throats; established churches, mandating the teaching ofreligious beliefs in taxpayer-funded schools, etc.

This seems to be the case of a few extremist fundamentalist.

So, you are willing to support taking religious mottoesoff our money, flags, and public buildings, and revertingthe Pledge of Allegiance to its pre-1950s SECULAR wording?

The Pledge comes from the Flag Code, which is advisory, not mandatory.Supreme ct cases have ruled that nobody can be required to say the pledge.

Any public school that starts the day with the pledgeis funded by tax dollars. Yes, students can refuse toparticipate, but I wrote PROMOTE, not MANDATE.

The kids still have to sit or stand and listen to it.

[quote]

"An atheistic American is a contradiction in terms," {George}Docherty said in his sermon. "If you deny the Christianethic, you fall short of the American ideal of life."

[/quote] - WaPo article by By Rachel Siegel June 14

"The gripping sermon that got 'under God' added to thePledge of Allegiance on Flag Day" quotes an asshole preacherwho had Eisenhower in his audience back in 1954. He basicallydraws a cirle that pushes all non-believers in the Abramic ghodoutside, marking them as not really Americans. Bastard.

Any public school that starts the day with the pledgeis funded by tax dollars. Yes, students can refuse toparticipate, but I wrote PROMOTE, not MANDATE.The kids still have to sit or stand and listen to it.

I listen to all sorts of things that I never take seriously.I read Christian theology and atheist lies and it don't matter.

I listen to all sorts of things that I never take seriously.I read Christian theology and atheist lies and it don't matter.

Listen to what you want to. The first amendment, and the incorporationdoctrine* derived from the 14th, means that government shouldn't pay forit or organize it.* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitlow_v._New_York

I listen to all sorts of things that I never take seriously.I read Christian theology and atheist lies and it don't matter.

Listen to what you want to. The first amendment, and the incorporationdoctrine* derived from the 14th, means that government shouldn't pay forit or organize it.* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitlow_v._New_York---Kevin Ra.a #2310

I listen to all sorts of things that I never take seriously.I read Christian theology and atheist lies and it don't matter.

Listen to what you want to. The first amendment, and the incorporationdoctrine* derived from the 14th, means that government shouldn't pay forit or organize it.* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitlow_v._New_York

I listen to all sorts of things that I never take seriously.I read Christian theology and atheist lies and it don't matter.

Listen to what you want to. The first amendment, and the incorporationdoctrine* derived from the 14th, means that government shouldn't pay forit or organize it.* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitlow_v._New_York

If that applied to the public schools, somebody would have sued.

There have been lawsuits, Mr "I took one year of law school."https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-latest-controversy-about-under-god-in-the-pledge-of-allegiancehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk_Grove_Unified_School_District_v._NewdowSCOTUS decided the Newdow suit on standing issues, not onthe establishment nor free exercise clauses. Those couldstill be litigated, if some other plaintiff tried again.

It was a copout, to avoid making an unpopular decision, even thoughthat would have been the only legitimate one.

Post by KevrobAs always, IANAL, just someone who has taken undergradcourses in constitutional law and constitutional historyon my way to my BA in Political Science and History.Any real attorney, please feel free to correct my take.

I listen to all sorts of things that I never take seriously.I read Christian theology and atheist lies and it don't matter.

Listen to what you want to. The first amendment, and the incorporationdoctrine* derived from the 14th, means that government shouldn't pay forit or organize it.* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitlow_v._New_York

If that applied to the public schools, somebody would have sued.

There have been lawsuits, Mr "I took one year of law school."https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-latest-controversy-about-under-god-in-the-pledge-of-allegiancehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk_Grove_Unified_School_District_v._NewdowSCOTUS decided the Newdow suit on standing issues, not onthe establishment nor free exercise clauses. Those couldstill be litigated, if some other plaintiff tried again.

It was a copout, to avoid making an unpopular decision, even thoughthat would have been the only legitimate one.

Post by KevrobAs always, IANAL, just someone who has taken undergradcourses in constitutional law and constitutional historyon my way to my BA in Political Science and History.Any real attorney, please feel free to correct my take.

I listen to all sorts of things that I never take seriously.I read Christian theology and atheist lies and it don't matter.

Listen to what you want to. The first amendment, and the incorporationdoctrine* derived from the 14th, means that government shouldn't pay forit or organize it.* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitlow_v._New_York

If that applied to the public schools, somebody would have sued.

There have been lawsuits, Mr "I took one year of law school."https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-latest-controversy-about-under-god-in-the-pledge-of-allegiancehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk_Grove_Unified_School_District_v._NewdowSCOTUS decided the Newdow suit on standing issues, not onthe establishment nor free exercise clauses. Those couldstill be litigated, if some other plaintiff tried again.

It was a copout, to avoid making an unpopular decision, even thoughthat would have been the only legitimate one.

Post by KevrobAs always, IANAL, just someone who has taken undergradcourses in constitutional law and constitutional historyon my way to my BA in Political Science and History.Any real attorney, please feel free to correct my take.

I am not an attorney and never said I was one.

This, again.

You claimed to have attended law school, and to have been aprosecutor in the Navy. Any casual observer would haveassumed that:

a) you completed your JD or LLd andb) that prosecutors have to be lawyers, even in the Navy.

You got called on it, and backpedaled.

See:

[QUOTE]

From this thread:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.atheism/Z7WuuRq0g4g

Message-ID: <6e79539f-2606-4301-9f68-***@googlegroups.com>

{QUOTE}

Tandy did, at least once, call himself a Naval Prosecutor, andtold us he attended U of I Law without bothering to tell ushe withdrew after 1 year: a "lie by omission."

[quote]

I attended Law school at the University of Illinois inChampaign. You can check their records if you don't believeme. I also practiced criminal law as a prosecutor in the Navyfor 4 years.[quote] from:

Message-ID: <0f190f59-c420-4005-b918-***@m5g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

22 July, 2011See also:

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3C0f190f59-c420-4005-b918-78c673c26af2%40m5g2000prh.googlegroups.com%3E OR

Note he didn't originally tell us he attended UofI Law for 1 year,allowing those who don't read closely to assume he went the full 3."Lying by omission," the good faddas and sistas called it back whenI was in Catholic school.

Now, is it fair to claim being a non-JAG "legal officer" onboard ship to be "practicing law?" State bar associationswould probably say "no."

I still say, that when one claims to have "practiced law," that isan equivalent claim to "I am/was a lawyer."

Practicing law without a license is generally not permitted inthe US, though there are paralegals and some limited licenselegal technicians in states like Washington. Since the Navywould follow its own rules, under Federal, not state law, Tandydoing what he did do was perfectly legal. He certainly wasn't aJAG lawyer, though, or anything near it. And rules for non-lawyersdoing work that used to be the sole province of licensed lawyers haveloosened over the years. A paralegal may work in a law practice,but isn't a full-fledged lawyer.

Again, the record has been corrected, but let's not forget thatTandy tried to slide this past us, in a case of "claiming falseexpertise," but got caught.

You can claim you never tried to bamboozle the group on thispoint, but your words are in the Google archive for anyone to read.They can make their own minds up as to whether you were claimingfalse expertise. Your repeated denials are irrelevant.

I listen to all sorts of things that I never take seriously.I read Christian theology and atheist lies and it don't matter.

Listen to what you want to. The first amendment, and the incorporationdoctrine* derived from the 14th, means that government shouldn't pay forit or organize it.* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitlow_v._New_York

If that applied to the public schools, somebody would have sued.

There have been lawsuits, Mr "I took one year of law school."https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-latest-controversy-about-under-god-in-the-pledge-of-allegiancehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk_Grove_Unified_School_District_v._NewdowSCOTUS decided the Newdow suit on standing issues, not onthe establishment nor free exercise clauses. Those couldstill be litigated, if some other plaintiff tried again.

It was a copout, to avoid making an unpopular decision, even thoughthat would have been the only legitimate one.

Post by KevrobAs always, IANAL, just someone who has taken undergradcourses in constitutional law and constitutional historyon my way to my BA in Political Science and History.Any real attorney, please feel free to correct my take.

I am not an attorney and never said I was one.

This, again.You claimed to have attended law school, and to have been aprosecutor in the Navy. Any casual observer would havea) you completed your JD or LLd andb) that prosecutors have to be lawyers, even in the Navy.You got called on it, and backpedaled.[QUOTE]https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.atheism/Z7WuuRq0g4g{QUOTE}Tandy did, at least once, call himself a Naval Prosecutor, andtold us he attended U of I Law without bothering to tell ushe withdrew after 1 year: a "lie by omission."[quote]I attended Law school at the University of Illinois inChampaign. You can check their records if you don't believeme. I also practiced criminal law as a prosecutor in the Navyfor 4 years.22 July, 2011http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3C0f190f59-c420-4005-b918-78c673c26af2%40m5g2000prh.googlegroups.com%3E ORhttps://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!original/alt.atheism/aod7Q3zB-b4/nYrs2c3fGWgJNote he didn't originally tell us he attended UofI Law for 1 year,allowing those who don't read closely to assume he went the full 3."Lying by omission," the good faddas and sistas called it back whenI was in Catholic school.Now, is it fair to claim being a non-JAG "legal officer" onboard ship to be "practicing law?" State bar associationswould probably say "no."It's easy to deal with this, Tandy. Just say "I expressed thatincorrectly."{/Quote}I still say, that when one claims to have "practiced law," that isan equivalent claim to "I am/was a lawyer."Practicing law without a license is generally not permitted inthe US, though there are paralegals and some limited licenselegal technicians in states like Washington. Since the Navywould follow its own rules, under Federal, not state law, Tandydoing what he did do was perfectly legal. He certainly wasn't aJAG lawyer, though, or anything near it. And rules for non-lawyersdoing work that used to be the sole province of licensed lawyers haveloosened over the years. A paralegal may work in a law practice,but isn't a full-fledged lawyer.Again, the record has been corrected, but let's not forget thatTandy tried to slide this past us, in a case of "claiming falseexpertise," but got caught.[/QUOTE]https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/alt.atheism/InBSUyKKuRw/rLznMf7KEAAJYou can claim you never tried to bamboozle the group on thispoint, but your words are in the Google archive for anyone to read.They can make their own minds up as to whether you were claimingfalse expertise. Your repeated denials are irrelevant.---Kevin Ra.a #2310

ROTFL! I have described my education and navy training to numerous peopleoutside this ng and NONE of them ever assumed I was a lawyer..A few of them asked me if I was and I said NO.You atheists push this crap just because you want to paint me as a liar.It won't work, since any ambiguity in my words was resolved by my posted statement than I am not and never was a lawyer.

I listen to all sorts of things that I never take seriously.I read Christian theology and atheist lies and it don't matter.

Listen to what you want to. The first amendment, and the incorporationdoctrine* derived from the 14th, means that government shouldn't pay forit or organize it.* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitlow_v._New_York

If that applied to the public schools, somebody would have sued.

There have been lawsuits, Mr "I took one year of law school."https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-latest-controversy-about-under-god-in-the-pledge-of-allegiancehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk_Grove_Unified_School_District_v._NewdowSCOTUS decided the Newdow suit on standing issues, not onthe establishment nor free exercise clauses. Those couldstill be litigated, if some other plaintiff tried again.As always, IANAL, just someone who has taken undergradcourses in constitutional law and constitutional historyon my way to my BA in Political Science and History.Any real attorney, please feel free to correct my take.---Kevin Ra.a #2310

From wikipedia:

In August 2005, the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit held 3–0 in Myers v. Loudoun County Public Schools that teacher-led recitations of the Pledge did not violate the Establishment Clause. The Plaintiff in that case, Edward Myers, decided not to appeal the case to the Supreme Court.

It makes sense. The first amendment says the govt may not favor one religion over others, and the pledge does not do that. Just mentioning God does notviolate that rule.

You don't care what the Constitution says. You're a militant atheist who wants to eliminate religion.

I listen to all sorts of things that I never take seriously.I read Christian theology and atheist lies and it don't matter.

Listen to what you want to. The first amendment, and the incorporationdoctrine* derived from the 14th, means that government shouldn't pay forit or organize it.* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitlow_v._New_York

If that applied to the public schools, somebody would have sued.

There have been lawsuits, Mr "I took one year of law school."https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-latest-controversy-about-under-god-in-the-pledge-of-allegiancehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk_Grove_Unified_School_District_v._NewdowSCOTUS decided the Newdow suit on standing issues, not onthe establishment nor free exercise clauses. Those couldstill be litigated, if some other plaintiff tried again.As always, IANAL, just someone who has taken undergradcourses in constitutional law and constitutional historyon my way to my BA in Political Science and History.Any real attorney, please feel free to correct my take.---Kevin Ra.a #2310

In August 2005, the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit held 3–0 in Myers v. Loudoun County Public Schools that teacher-led recitations of the Pledge did not violate the Establishment Clause. The Plaintiff in that case, Edward Myers, decided not to appeal the case to the Supreme Court.It makes sense. The first amendment says the govt may not favor one religion over others, and the pledge does not do that. Just mentioning God does notviolate that rule.

It says "no establishment of religion."

That has been interpreted as not favoring one religion overanother, nor RELIGION OVER IRRELIGION.

I'd consider it an improvement for society if peoplewere _persuaded_ to give up theistic religion, or anyother religion powered by woo-woo, and adopt a naturalisticview of the universe. I wouldn't outlaw any of it,unless we were talking about human sacrifice, involuntarybody mutilation, ghod-approved slavery, etc.

My solution to the "prayer in the schools" question is:privatize the schools.

I listen to all sorts of things that I never take seriously.I read Christian theology and atheist lies and it don't matter.

Listen to what you want to. The first amendment, and the incorporationdoctrine* derived from the 14th, means that government shouldn't pay forit or organize it.* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitlow_v._New_York

If that applied to the public schools, somebody would have sued.

There have been lawsuits, Mr "I took one year of law school."https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-latest-controversy-about-under-god-in-the-pledge-of-allegiancehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk_Grove_Unified_School_District_v._NewdowSCOTUS decided the Newdow suit on standing issues, not onthe establishment nor free exercise clauses. Those couldstill be litigated, if some other plaintiff tried again.As always, IANAL, just someone who has taken undergradcourses in constitutional law and constitutional historyon my way to my BA in Political Science and History.Any real attorney, please feel free to correct my take.---Kevin Ra.a #2310

In August 2005, the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit held 3–0 in Myers v. Loudoun County Public Schools that teacher-led recitations of the Pledge did not violate the Establishment Clause. The Plaintiff in that case, Edward Myers, decided not to appeal the case to the Supreme Court.It makes sense. The first amendment says the govt may not favor one religion over others, and the pledge does not do that. Just mentioning God does notviolate that rule.

It says "no establishment of religion."That has been interpreted as not favoring one religion overanother, nor RELIGION OVER IRRELIGION.see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_v._Kurtzman

I'd consider it an improvement for society if peoplewere _persuaded_ to give up theistic religion, or anyother religion powered by woo-woo, and adopt a naturalisticview of the universe. I wouldn't outlaw any of it,unless we were talking about human sacrifice, involuntarybody mutilation, ghod-approved slavery, etc.privatize the schools.---Kevin Ra.a #2310

I listen to all sorts of things that I never take seriously.I read Christian theology and atheist lies and it don't matter.

Listen to what you want to. The first amendment, and the incorporationdoctrine* derived from the 14th, means that government shouldn't pay forit or organize it.* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitlow_v._New_York

If that applied to the public schools, somebody would have sued.

There have been lawsuits, Mr "I took one year of law school."https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-latest-controversy-about-under-god-in-the-pledge-of-allegiancehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk_Grove_Unified_School_District_v._NewdowSCOTUS decided the Newdow suit on standing issues, not onthe establishment nor free exercise clauses. Those couldstill be litigated, if some other plaintiff tried again.As always, IANAL, just someone who has taken undergradcourses in constitutional law and constitutional historyon my way to my BA in Political Science and History.Any real attorney, please feel free to correct my take.---Kevin Ra.a #2310

In August 2005, the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit held 3–0 in Myers v. Loudoun County Public Schools that teacher-led recitations of the Pledge did not violate the Establishment Clause. The Plaintiff in that case, Edward Myers, decided not to appeal the case to the Supreme Court.It makes sense. The first amendment says the govt may not favor one religion over others, and the pledge does not do that. Just mentioning God does notviolate that rule.

It says "no establishment of religion."That has been interpreted as not favoring one religion overanother, nor RELIGION OVER IRRELIGION.see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_v._Kurtzman

I'd consider it an improvement for society if peoplewere _persuaded_ to give up theistic religion, or anyother religion powered by woo-woo, and adopt a naturalisticview of the universe. I wouldn't outlaw any of it,unless we were talking about human sacrifice, involuntarybody mutilation, ghod-approved slavery, etc.privatize the schools.---Kevin Ra.a #2310

That's a different case that Newdow brought, to get the religious mottotaken off the currency and coinage.

He wasn't able to get it to SCOTUS. Aronow v. United States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aronow_v._United_States

..decided at the 9th circuit, was a controlling precedent.

This is the ridiculous part:

[quote]

It is quite obvious that the national motto and the slogan oncoinage and currency "In God We Trust" has nothing whatsoeverto do with the establishment of religion. Its use is of patrioticor ceremonial character and bears no true resemblance to a governmentalsponsorship of a religious exercise....

[/quote] - Bruce R. Thompson, writing for the 9th circuit

Note: SCOTUS hasn't ruled on this issue.

https://openjurist.org/432/f2d/242/aronow-v-united-states

They allowed the religious statement by claiming it wasreligiously insignificant!!!!!

If I were religious, I'd consider that an insult to whateverghod(z) I believed in.

Post by Kevrob[quote]"An atheistic American is a contradiction in terms," {George}Docherty said in his sermon. "If you deny the Christianethic, you fall short of the American ideal of life."[/quote] - WaPo article by By Rachel Siegel June 14

Any public school that starts the day with the pledgeis funded by tax dollars. Yes, students can refuse toparticipate, but I wrote PROMOTE, not MANDATE.The kids still have to sit or stand and listen to it.[quote]"An atheistic American is a contradiction in terms," {George}Docherty said in his sermon. "If you deny the Christianethic, you fall short of the American ideal of life."[/quote] - WaPo article by By Rachel Siegel June 14"The gripping sermon that got 'under God' added to thePledge of Allegiance on Flag Day" quotes an asshole preacherwho had Eisenhower in his audience back in 1954. He basicallydraws a cirle that pushes all non-believers in the Abramic ghodoutside, marking them as not really Americans. Bastard.

Eisenhower's own words as he signed it into law, showed that it wasunconstitutional. From an amicus curiae brief in the Newdow pledgetrial....

"From this day forward the millions of our school-children will dailyproclaim.... the dedication of our Nation and our people to theAlmighty" 100 Cong. Rec 8617 (1954)

He might have been a brilliant general during WW2, but he was a lousyPresident.

We have this bastard to thank for much of the general hostilitytowards atheists in the USA. Even daddy Bush quoted the pledge tojustify his remarks that atheists shouldn't be citizens and couldn'tbe patriotic because "this is one nation under god".

The Supreme Court copped out so they wouldn't have to make a rulingthat would upset the Christian majority, when they ruled that Newdowhad no standing to bring the case.

You at you, clinging to dogma as if it wasimportant... you're precisely what I wastalking about.Atheists believe there is no God.

Ah! Atheist believe there is no God.

Wrong, "Ray." Atheist don't be;ieve in any ghodz.No beliefs required.

I sometimes use my middle name.

With a name as common as "Jones," Ken and Ray might noteven ne related, let alone the same guy. I take it this isyou admitting the 2 nyms are 1 person?

I set up my home computer with Ken the name my motherand family called me, at work, the tec put Ray my computerbecause there were 5 other Kens in the office. I kinda likeit that way, because If someone calls me ken I know it's notwork.

Post by KevrobFor atheists, the "ghod question" is irrelevant,until the theists shove it in our faces by, forexample, trolling an atheist newsgroup.

You call it trolling, but this _is_ a public newsgroup.So, anyone who wishes to is free to do so.

You may post, but you are a troll for not following thecharter and FAQ.

I'm sorry I'm not acquainted with this.

Post by Kevrob[quote]The Cat-Herding Rules and Regulations of alt.atheism and Some Information1) All are welcome in the newsgroup, whether they're atheists or not, aslong as they are not trolls.2) Proselytizing of ANY religion is NOT welcome! (Those guilty of this badnettiquette will be treated as they deserve!)3) This newsgroup exists for atheists to discuss anything of interestto them and other atheists, although others who are honestlyinterested in joining a discussion and are not trolls arewelcome. Trolls will be treated as what they are.

In this context, I don't know what the meaning of a troll is.I am not trying to win converts to my religion. That's notmy purpose.

Post by KevrobThe really important annoyance for us is those trying toget the government to finance shoving the nonsense downour throats; established churches, mandating the teaching ofreligious beliefs in taxpayer-funded schools, etc.

This seems to be the case of a few extremist fundamentalist.

So, you are willing to support taking religious mottoesoff our money, flags, and public buildings, and revertingthe Pledge of Allegiance to its pre-1950s SECULAR wording?

I don't really careone way or the other. It matters not!

Post by KevrobYour denomination will be funding its military chaplains,

On the point, due to the fact that there are religiousmilitary men in harms way, a Chaplain of their faithespecially when wounded would be important to the man.It would be heartless to deny him such a person.

Post by Kevrobrather than the taxpayers, from now on? Same for chaplainsfor other state institutions, like the Congress?

"This life?" You act as if you get more than one. Areyou a Hindu, then?

No, This is another belief of most theist.

An unsubstantiated one. We have no evidence of anyafterlife, though spiritualist charlatans make a lotof money faking communication with "the other side."Not all of them are priests or ministers, either.

No, but I know of a case of a 3 year old child who drownin the family swimming pool and was under for at least 6minutes. She talked about things that happened, that sheshouldn't know about, after she was brought back.

Post by KevrobYou are born, and you live. You make the most of life.Eventually, you die. Entropy gets us all, at least so far.Pretending your consciousness will survive death is a fantasy.

Here again is belief. Not having experience death, you cannotknow for certain. You only have belief!

It's not "belief," it's a working hypothesis.Note the qualification: "Entropy gets us all,[caps added for emphasis]...AT LEAST SO FAR."Now, Kenray and Rayken, please follow the FAQ orbutt out.[quote]Whoever will not receive you or listen to your words -go outside that house or town and shake the dust from your feet.[/quote] Matt 10:14 - http://www.usccb.org/bible/mt/10---Kevin Ra.a #2310

You at you, clinging to dogma as if it wasimportant... you're precisely what I wastalking about.Atheists believe there is no God.

Ah! Atheist believe there is no God.Theist believe there is a God. The truth isno one knows with any degree of certainty.

But use common sense. If I were to tell you I can turn myself invisible any time I wanted to, wouldn't you expect ME to prove it? Why would YOU have to disprove it. After all, I may not want to turn invisible for you.

See the problem. You theists insist God exists, provide no irrefutable proof of it whatever, then turn around and demand the atheist disprove it.

What's the problem? If you're so certain God exists, provide us with some irrefutable proof of it. And, more importantly, theists have to quit proselytizing in regards to something they have no proof whatever of in an ATHEIST forum.

You at you, clinging to dogma as if it wasimportant... you're precisely what I wastalking about.Atheists believe there is no God.

Ah! Atheist believe there is no God.Theist believe there is a God. The truth isno one knows with any degree of certainty.

But use common sense. If I were to tell you I can turn myself invisible any time I wanted to, wouldn't you expect ME to prove it? Why would YOU have to disprove it. After all, I may not want to turn invisible for you.

Good point, but I would say that no one including you believes this,which is a significant difference. The overwhelming majority of peopledo believe in a God of some sort. And by the same token there aresome people who believe there is no God. So, there are real beliefsverses an unreal belief which you proposed.

Post by GreywolfSee the problem. You theists insist God exists, provide no irrefutable proof of it whatever, then turn around and demand the atheist disprove it.

If it could be proven, then there would be no room for belief.

Post by GreywolfWhat's the problem? If you're so certain God exists, provide us with some irrefutable proof of it. And, more importantly, theists have to quit proselytizing in regards to something they have no proof whatever of in an ATHEIST forum.

I believe God exist, but I do not pretend that I am able to offerirrefutable proof. But as I see it, without any empirical evidence,there can never be proof in either case. But do you not see theimpossibility of proof. In fact neither science nor religion isin the proof business.

You at you, clinging to dogma as if it wasimportant... you're precisely what I wastalking about.Atheists believe there is no God.

Ah! Atheist believe there is no God.Theist believe there is a God. The truth isno one knows with any degree of certainty.

But use common sense. If I were to tell you I can turn myself invisible any time I wanted to, wouldn't you expect ME to prove it? Why would YOU have to disprove it. After all, I may not want to turn invisible for you.

Good point, but I would say that no one including you believes this,which is a significant difference.

A massive amount of people believing something doesn't prove it true. Look at the ancient Greeks. Many a Greek was slaughtered when the Persians sacked Athens. They didn't flee like they were warned to do because they believed the gods would save them. So belief is no proof of God.

The overwhelming majority of people

Post by Rev. Ken Jonesdo believe in a God of some sort. And by the same token there aresome people who believe there is no God. So, there are real beliefsverses an unreal belief which you proposed.

But it's disbelief based on the complete and total lack of irrefutable proof of ANY deity existing. Not a stitch of irrefutable proof since day one to the present. The atheist is on solid footing. Theists certainly are not.

Post by GreywolfWhat's the problem? If you're so certain God exists, provide us with some irrefutable proof of it. And, more importantly, theists have to quit proselytizing in regards to something they have no proof whatever of in an ATHEIST forum.

I believe God exist, but I do not pretend that I am able to offerirrefutable proof. But as I see it, without any empirical evidence,there can never be proof in either case.

But the atheist isn't the one claiming God does, indeed, exist. The burden of proof, then, lies on the theist's shoulders. And if the theist cannot provide a speck of irrefutable proof of God's existence, there's no reason whatever to believe God does exist.

Yes, the God Believer is claiming God exists. Therefore the God Believer should prove it or shut up. And, especially, not invade a "home" of the atheists to proselytize religious beliefs we find offensive.

This forum is a wonderful place to ask the atheist why they are an atheist; what led them to conclude there was no God, etc. The Christian should most certainly contest the atheist. But if proven wrong, admit it.

Here's an example of what I mean: Mark 8:31 contradicts Matthew 16:21. Yet not a SINGLE so-called Christian plaguing this forum will admit it. See what I mean? How is one to have a reasoned discussion with individuals who absolutely refuse to admit they're wrong? What purpose do they serve here?

Post by GreywolfBecause you have no irrefutable proof whatever you're telling the truth about "God." And the atheist certainly doesn't have to disprove a negative. It's YOU making the claim. So prove it.

Here again proof is impossible. Besides all I ever claim is thatscientific evidence indicates that believe in the existence of adesigner is the _better_ option.

No, because no one can explain where this "Designer" got its supernatural powers and intelligence from. Worse, Trinitarian Christians have THREE eternal beings. Where did the other two come from?

Ah! Atheist believe there is no God.Theist believe there is a God. The truth isno one knows with any degree of certainty.

But use common sense. If I were to tell you I can turn myself invisible any time I wanted to, wouldn't you expect ME to prove it? Why would YOU have to disprove it. After all, I may not want to turn invisible for you.

Good point, but I would say that no one including you believes this,which is a significant difference.

A massive amount of people believing something doesn't prove it true.

In most cases I agree, but to turn invisible, no one including youbelievers this. But theist believe a God exist.Look at the ancient Greeks. Many a Greek was slaughtered when thePersians sacked Athens. They didn't flee like they were warned to dobecause they believed the gods would save them. So belief is no proof ofGod.You have to take measures to save yourself. You cannot just step off a1000ft cliff and expect your belief in God will save you. That's insane.And no religion teaches any such. There are some fundamentalist whohandle poisonous snakes and from time to time someone dies fromsnake bite. I see this as no different from the 1000 ft cliff. In myview this too is insane. They are tempting God.

Post by Rev. Ken Jonesdo believe in a God of some sort. And by the same token there aresome people who believe there is no God. So, there are real beliefsverses an unreal belief which you proposed.

But it's disbelief based on the complete and total lack of irrefutable proof of ANY deity existing. Not a stitch of irrefutable proof since day one to the present. The atheist is on solid footing. Theists certainly are not.

You are expecting too much. The only facts for which there isirrefutable proof is death, taxes and maybe arithmetic.But not even science claims to have irrefutable proof, becausesome theory might be falsified by a new discovery next week;next month or next year.

Post by Rev. Ken JonesI believe God exist, but I do not pretend that I am able to offerirrefutable proof. But as I see it, without any empirical evidence,there can never be proof in either case.

But the atheist isn't the one claiming God does, indeed, exist. The burden of proof, then, lies on the theist's shoulders. And if the theist cannot provide a speck of irrefutable proof of God's existence, there's no reason whatever to believe God does exist.

Again you are demanding more than is possible. Honest theist do notclaim to have knowledge. To know is not belief nor faith. And faithis what religion is . >

Post by GreywolfI do. But then why claim something is real when there's no real evidence for it. What? The sun, the birds, the sky all "prove" God exists? That's just plain silly.

Yes, the God Believer is claiming God exists. Therefore the God Believer should prove it or shut up. And, especially, not invade a "home" of the atheists to proselytize religious beliefs we find offensive.

I believe God exist, I never claim to know it exist. It's a matter offaith. I have no interest in proselytizing on this Forum. Whatoriginally brought me on board was a heading that I thought unfairto theist, so I became defensive.

This forum is a wonderful place to ask the atheist why they are an atheist; what led them to conclude there was no God, etc. The Christian should most certainly contest the atheist. But if proven wrong, admit it.

I certainly would. I grew up in a Jewish family that attendedweddings, and funerals, but that was about it. So, religionwas never important to me until I was in my 40's. I had earneda MBA had a high paying job, money in the bank, stocks anda wife and children. All of which I lost thanks to my exwifeshyster lawyer.

Post by GreywolfHere's an example of what I mean: Mark 8:31 contradicts Matthew 16:21. Yet not a SINGLE so-called Christian plaguing this forum will admit it. See what I mean? How is one to have a reasoned discussion with individuals who absolutely refuse to admit they're wrong? What purpose do they serve here?

I'm made it a point not to bring the Bible or any religious materialonto this forum and I haven't wittingly or intentionally done so,because I realize it would be pointless. But you did! So, I quotedboth verses below. The differences I see, Is one names the city,the other does not. Both say he must suffer and be killed. One saysafter three days he rise again. The other say on the third day hewill be raised again.

I'm sorry, I tried hard to find the contradiction, and I've failed.These are two different people describing the same scenes, and itseems to me, their wording is somewhat different, but the same sceneis described. Please explain your observation of the contradiction.For your convenience just below are the 2 verses.Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffermany things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests,and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.Matt. 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples,how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the eldersand chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again thethird day.

Post by GreywolfBecause you have no irrefutable proof whatever you're telling the truth about "God." And the atheist certainly doesn't have to disprove a negative. It's YOU making the claim. So prove it.

Here again proof is impossible. Besides all I ever claim is thatscientific evidence indicates that believe in the existence of adesigner is the _better_ option.

No, because no one can explain where this "Designer" got its supernatural powers and intelligence from. Worse, Trinitarian Christians have THREE eternal beings. Where did the other two come from?

These are impossible demands which there is no chance of meeting.There is no way to know.

Post by GreywolfA better option is to assume God was sired by Momma and Pappa God.

Ah! Atheist believe there is no God.Theist believe there is a God. The truth isno one knows with any degree of certainty.

But use common sense. If I were to tell you I can turn myself invisible any time I wanted to, wouldn't you expect ME to prove it? Why would YOU have to disprove it. After all, I may not want to turn invisible for you.

Good point, but I would say that no one including you believes this,which is a significant difference.

A massive amount of people believing something doesn't prove it true.

In most cases I agree, but to turn invisible, no one including youbelievers this. But theist believe a God exist.Look at the ancient Greeks. Many a Greek was slaughtered when thePersians sacked Athens. They didn't flee like they were warned to dobecause they believed the gods would save them. So belief is no proof ofGod.You have to take measures to save yourself. You cannot just step off a1000ft cliff and expect your belief in God will save you. That's insane.And no religion teaches any such. There are some fundamentalist whohandle poisonous snakes and from time to time someone dies fromsnake bite. I see this as no different from the 1000 ft cliff. In myview this too is insane. They are tempting God.

Post by Rev. Ken Jonesdo believe in a God of some sort. And by the same token there aresome people who believe there is no God. So, there are real beliefsverses an unreal belief which you proposed.

But it's disbelief based on the complete and total lack of irrefutable proof of ANY deity existing. Not a stitch of irrefutable proof since day one to the present. The atheist is on solid footing. Theists certainly are not.

You are expecting too much. The only facts for which there isirrefutable proof is death, taxes and maybe arithmetic.But not even science claims to have irrefutable proof, becausesome theory might be falsified by a new discovery next week;next month or next year.

Ah! Atheist believe there is no God.Theist believe there is a God. The truth isno one knows with any degree of certainty.

But use common sense. If I were to tell you I can turn myself invisible any time I wanted to, wouldn't you expect ME to prove it? Why would YOU have to disprove it. After all, I may not want to turn invisible for you.

Good point, but I would say that no one including you believes this,which is a significant difference.

A massive amount of people believing something doesn't prove it true.

In most cases I agree, but to turn invisible, no one including youbelievers this. But theist believe a God exist.Look at the ancient Greeks. Many a Greek was slaughtered when thePersians sacked Athens. They didn't flee like they were warned to dobecause they believed the gods would save them. So belief is no proof ofGod.You have to take measures to save yourself. You cannot just step off a1000ft cliff and expect your belief in God will save you. That's insane.And no religion teaches any such. There are some fundamentalist whohandle poisonous snakes and from time to time someone dies fromsnake bite. I see this as no different from the 1000 ft cliff. In myview this too is insane. They are tempting God.

Post by Rev. Ken Jonesdo believe in a God of some sort. And by the same token there aresome people who believe there is no God. So, there are real beliefsverses an unreal belief which you proposed.

But it's disbelief based on the complete and total lack of irrefutable proof of ANY deity existing. Not a stitch of irrefutable proof since day one to the present. The atheist is on solid footing. Theists certainly are not.

You are expecting too much. The only facts for which there isirrefutable proof is death, taxes and maybe arithmetic.But not even science claims to have irrefutable proof, becausesome theory might be falsified by a new discovery next week;next month or next year.

Post by GreywolfSee the problem. You theists insist God exists, provide no irrefutable proof of it whatever, then turn around and demand the atheist disprove it.

If it could be proven, then there would be no room for belief.

That's true. But so what? Why is it important to believe in something that cannot possibly be proven true?

My experience with mainstream churches they all teach that religion is amatter of faith.and trust in the Bible. But they never claim proof.

Correct, but the atheists who post here lie and claim religious beliefs are statements of fact. The funny part is they claim the bible is lies, but never prove that.. They never learn.

What planet do you live on? Watch any Christian TV program and they state God is real? I'v yet to see a Christian TV program where the host says, "Now folks, remember we BELIEVE God exists but have no irrefutable proof of it,"

You're just lying.

Post by v***@gmail.comI have never heard any clergyman claim his religious beliefs are fact.Anyone who cannot distinguish statements of belief from statements of fact is just plain stupid.

It's obvious that you're the stupid one if you think Christian preachers never say "God is real."

Ah! Atheist believe there is no God.Theist believe there is a God. The truth isno one knows with any degree of certainty.

But use common sense. If I were to tell you I can turn myself invisible any time I wanted to, wouldn't you expect ME to prove it? Why would YOU have to disprove it. After all, I may not want to turn invisible for you.

Good point, but I would say that no one including you believes this,which is a significant difference.

A massive amount of people believing something doesn't prove it true.

In most cases I agree, but to turn invisible, no one including youbelievers this. But theist believe a God exist.Look at the ancient Greeks. Many a Greek was slaughtered when thePersians sacked Athens. They didn't flee like they were warned to dobecause they believed the gods would save them. So belief is no proof ofGod.You have to take measures to save yourself. You cannot just step off a1000ft cliff and expect your belief in God will save you. That's insane.And no religion teaches any such. There are some fundamentalist whohandle poisonous snakes and from time to time someone dies fromsnake bite. I see this as no different from the 1000 ft cliff. In myview this too is insane. They are tempting God.

Post by Rev. Ken Jonesdo believe in a God of some sort. And by the same token there aresome people who believe there is no God. So, there are real beliefsverses an unreal belief which you proposed.

But it's disbelief based on the complete and total lack of irrefutable proof of ANY deity existing. Not a stitch of irrefutable proof since day one to the present. The atheist is on solid footing. Theists certainly are not.

You are expecting too much. The only facts for which there isirrefutable proof is death, taxes and maybe arithmetic.But not even science claims to have irrefutable proof, becausesome theory might be falsified by a new discovery next week;next month or next year.

Post by GreywolfSee the problem. You theists insist God exists, provide no irrefutable proof of it whatever, then turn around and demand the atheist disprove it.

If it could be proven, then there would be no room for belief.

That's true. But so what? Why is it important to believe in something that cannot possibly be proven true?

My experience with mainstream churches they all teach that religion is amatter of faith.and trust in the Bible. But they never claim proof.

Correct, but the atheists who post here lie and claim religious beliefs are statements of fact. The funny part is they claim the bible is lies, but never prove that.. They never learn.

What planet do you live on? Watch any Christian TV program and they state God is real? I'v yet to see a Christian TV program where the host says, "Now folks, remember we BELIEVE God exists but have no irrefutable proof of it,"You're just lying.

Post by v***@gmail.comI have never heard any clergyman claim his religious beliefs are fact.Anyone who cannot distinguish statements of belief from statements of fact is just plain stupid.

It's obvious that you're the stupid one if you think Christian preachers never say "God is real."

From wikiquoteFaith

Faith is confidence or trust in a person, idea, deity, religion, or any specifiable belief that is not based on proof. While some have argued that many forms of faith are opposed to reason, proponents of faiths argue that the proper domain of faith concerns questions which cannot be settled by evidence, and that rationality and faith are complementary aspects of human perceptual and imaginative capacities. The word faith is often used synonymously for hope, trust, belief, or a religious tradition.

Ah! Atheist believe there is no God.Theist believe there is a God. The truth isno one knows with any degree of certainty.

But use common sense. If I were to tell you I can turn myself invisible any time I wanted to, wouldn't you expect ME to prove it? Why would YOU have to disprove it. After all, I may not want to turn invisible for you.

Good point, but I would say that no one including you believes this,which is a significant difference.

A massive amount of people believing something doesn't prove it true.

In most cases I agree, but to turn invisible, no one including youbelievers this. But theist believe a God exist.Look at the ancient Greeks. Many a Greek was slaughtered when thePersians sacked Athens. They didn't flee like they were warned to dobecause they believed the gods would save them. So belief is no proof ofGod.You have to take measures to save yourself. You cannot just step off a1000ft cliff and expect your belief in God will save you. That's insane.And no religion teaches any such. There are some fundamentalist whohandle poisonous snakes and from time to time someone dies fromsnake bite. I see this as no different from the 1000 ft cliff. In myview this too is insane. They are tempting God.

Post by Rev. Ken Jonesdo believe in a God of some sort. And by the same token there aresome people who believe there is no God. So, there are real beliefsverses an unreal belief which you proposed.

But it's disbelief based on the complete and total lack of irrefutable proof of ANY deity existing. Not a stitch of irrefutable proof since day one to the present. The atheist is on solid footing. Theists certainly are not.

You are expecting too much. The only facts for which there isirrefutable proof is death, taxes and maybe arithmetic.But not even science claims to have irrefutable proof, becausesome theory might be falsified by a new discovery next week;next month or next year.

Post by GreywolfSee the problem. You theists insist God exists, provide no irrefutable proof of it whatever, then turn around and demand the atheist disprove it.

If it could be proven, then there would be no room for belief.

That's true. But so what? Why is it important to believe in something that cannot possibly be proven true?

My experience with mainstream churches they all teach that religion is amatter of faith.and trust in the Bible. But they never claim proof.

Correct, but the atheists who post here lie and claim religious beliefs are statements of fact. The funny part is they claim the bible is lies, but never prove that.. They never learn.

What planet do you live on? Watch any Christian TV program and they state God is real? I'v yet to see a Christian TV program where the host says, "Now folks, remember we BELIEVE God exists but have no irrefutable proof of it,"You're just lying.

Post by v***@gmail.comI have never heard any clergyman claim his religious beliefs are fact.Anyone who cannot distinguish statements of belief from statements of fact is just plain stupid.

It's obvious that you're the stupid one if you think Christian preachers never say "God is real."

From wikiquoteFaithFaith is confidence or trust in a person, idea, deity, religion, or any specifiable belief that is not based on proof. While some have argued that many forms of faith are opposed to reason, proponents of faiths argue that the proper domain of faith concerns questions which cannot be settled by evidence, and that rationality and faith are complementary aspects of human perceptual and imaginative capacities. The word faith is often used synonymously for hope, trust, belief, or a religious tradition.

_____

Nice quote. Now provide a link to a video where a Christian preacher says, "There MIGHT be a God, we BELIEVE there's a God, but there's no proof of it."

Better yet, let's have some so-called Christian like JTEM say it--but not later insist God is real.

Then the question becomes: Why post religious propaganda in an atheist forum? If there's no proof of God's existence, why bother the atheist with meaningless drivel? But we know the theists that plague this forum do it just to be jerks. And in doing so, make a mockery of their religion.

Ah! Atheist believe there is no God.Theist believe there is a God. The truth isno one knows with any degree of certainty.

But use common sense. If I were to tell you I can turn myself invisible any time I wanted to, wouldn't you expect ME to prove it? Why would YOU have to disprove it. After all, I may not want to turn invisible for you.

Good point, but I would say that no one including you believes this,which is a significant difference.

A massive amount of people believing something doesn't prove it true.

In most cases I agree, but to turn invisible, no one including youbelievers this. But theist believe a God exist.Look at the ancient Greeks. Many a Greek was slaughtered when thePersians sacked Athens. They didn't flee like they were warned to dobecause they believed the gods would save them. So belief is no proof ofGod.You have to take measures to save yourself. You cannot just step off a1000ft cliff and expect your belief in God will save you.

But many a Christian DOES believe something close to it. Look at the snake-handling Pentecostal Christians of Appalachia. They truly believe their faith makes them virtually immune from getting bitten.

That's insane.

Post by Rev. Ken JonesAnd no religion teaches any such. There are some fundamentalist whohandle poisonous snakes and from time to time someone dies fromsnake bite. I see this as no different from the 1000 ft cliff. In myview this too is insane. They are tempting God.

Post by Rev. Ken Jonesdo believe in a God of some sort. And by the same token there aresome people who believe there is no God. So, there are real beliefsverses an unreal belief which you proposed.

But it's disbelief based on the complete and total lack of irrefutable proof of ANY deity existing. Not a stitch of irrefutable proof since day one to the present. The atheist is on solid footing. Theists certainly are not.

You are expecting too much. The only facts for which there isirrefutable proof is death, taxes and maybe arithmetic.But not even science claims to have irrefutable proof, becausesome theory might be falsified by a new discovery next week;next month or next year.

But see. Science will discard what has been proven false; always striving to find the truth. You can't say that about religious belief. I could park 50 flat-bed railroad cars with "proof" the Christian faith is bogus and it would be dismissed with a mere wave of the hand. Did-hard Christians will not accept ANYTHING that would prove their faith false.

Look at how not a single so-called Christian in this forum has had the honesty to admit Mark 8:85 contradicts Matthew 16:21 and Luke 9:22. Not a single one. What does *that* tell you about their intellectual honesty?

Post by GreywolfSee the problem. You theists insist God exists, provide no irrefutable proof of it whatever, then turn around and demand the atheist disprove it.

If it could be proven, then there would be no room for belief.

That's true. But so what? Why is it important to believe in something that cannot possibly be proven true?

My experience with mainstream churches they all teach that religion is amatter of faith.and trust in the Bible. But they never claim proof.

But they believe it to be true, no matter what. Like not accepting the fact that the Bible has some serious errors, provable errors. But it doesn't matter one whit to the believer. That's okay. But they why come into an atheist forum posting religious propaganda which they cannot possibly prove true? It's offensive. This is an atheist forum, not a theist one.

Post by Rev. Ken JonesI believe God exist, but I do not pretend that I am able to offerirrefutable proof. But as I see it, without any empirical evidence,there can never be proof in either case.

But the atheist isn't the one claiming God does, indeed, exist. The burden of proof, then, lies on the theist's shoulders. And if the theist cannot provide a speck of irrefutable proof of God's existence, there's no reason whatever to believe God does exist.

Again you are demanding more than is possible. Honest theist do notclaim to have knowledge.

Why believe in something that there's no real proof of? What does that gain me?

Yes, the God Believer is claiming God exists. Therefore the God Believer should prove it or shut up. And, especially, not invade a "home" of the atheists to proselytize religious beliefs we find offensive.

I believe God exist, I never claim to know it exist. It's a matter offaith. I have no interest in proselytizing on this Forum. Whatoriginally brought me on board was a heading that I thought unfairto theist, so I became defensive.

I can certainly see you feeling you should defend something that you feel completely unfair. In a civil discussion that topic should be discussed rationally and with mutual respect. Good people can respectfully disagree. And sometimes there will be no "meeting of the minds." The theist and the atheist will never come to full agreement due to the nature of our belief-systems. But the "arguments" should be as cordial as can be. There really is no need for nastiness on the part of either side.

But with that said, I find the trolls that plague this forum troll here for no other reason than to disrespect the atheist as much as possible. Especially when it's done year after year with nothing being accomplished except nastiness being displayed by both sides. But the theists don't belong posting here if all they're doing it for is to be complete jerks.

Granted, there are some truly mentally-ill theist posters whose mental-illness is on full display. And nothing can be done about them. They're truly sick-in-the-head. Still, they don't belong posting here. It would be so much better if borderline Christians posted serious theological questions here, have the atheists give them their take on the subject, and let the Christian decide who's providing the more truthful answers. But that's not how it has worked in this forum as of late.

This forum is a wonderful place to ask the atheist why they are an atheist; what led them to conclude there was no God, etc. The Christian should most certainly contest the atheist. But if proven wrong, admit it.

I certainly would. I grew up in a Jewish family that attendedweddings, and funerals, but that was about it. So, religionwas never important to me until I was in my 40's. I had earneda MBA had a high paying job, money in the bank, stocks anda wife and children. All of which I lost thanks to my exwifeshyster lawyer.

So I see that your religious belief helped you cope with a very difficult situation. And that's fine. But it comes back to what is real and what is not.

Post by GreywolfHere's an example of what I mean: Mark 8:31 contradicts Matthew 16:21. Yet not a SINGLE so-called Christian plaguing this forum will admit it. See what I mean? How is one to have a reasoned discussion with individuals who absolutely refuse to admit they're wrong? What purpose do they serve here?

I'm made it a point not to bring the Bible or any religious materialonto this forum and I haven't wittingly or intentionally done so,because I realize it would be pointless. But you did! So, I quotedboth verses below. The differences I see, Is one names the city,the other does not. Both say he must suffer and be killed. One saysafter three days he rise again. The other say on the third day hewill be raised again.I'm sorry, I tried hard to find the contradiction,

You bring up a very interesting point because ON the third day COULD mean Monday if you exclude Friday. I have no problem with that. But as you already know, Christianity insists He arose on Sunday. So that's where the legitimate contradiction lies. But it gets worse. In a three-part series of articles I did, Jesus would have had to arise on Saturday if one takes all four of the "empty tomb" stories seriously:

https://theatheistobserver.com/2013/08/14/while-it-was-still-dark/

and I've failed.

Post by Rev. Ken JonesThese are two different people describing the same scenes, and itseems to me, their wording is somewhat different, but the same sceneis described. Please explain your observation of the contradiction.For your convenience just below are the 2 verses.Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffermany things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests,and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Note the AFTER three days, which would be Monday. (See also Matthew 12:40.)

Post by Rev. Ken JonesMatt. 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples,how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the eldersand chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again thethird day.

As stated previously, if one begins the "countdown" on Saturday, there's no contradiction. But the Church began the countdown on Friday--leading to a Sunday resurrection. So there is a contradiction here.

Post by GreywolfBecause you have no irrefutable proof whatever you're telling the truth about "God." And the atheist certainly doesn't have to disprove a negative. It's YOU making the claim. So prove it.

Here again proof is impossible. Besides all I ever claim is thatscientific evidence indicates that believe in the existence of adesigner is the _better_ option.

No, because no one can explain where this "Designer" got its supernatural powers and intelligence from. Worse, Trinitarian Christians have THREE eternal beings. Where did the other two come from?

These are impossible demands which there is no chance of meeting.There is no way to know.

That's why the atheist has no reason to believe in ONE God, let alone three. It's the Christian insisting we should believe in something they cannot possibly prove true, yet insist we believe based on some kind of unreasonable "faith."

Post by Rev. Ken JonesBut the theist has hope there is somethingbetter after this life. What is the atheist hope?

After this life? Aren't you assuming something you cannot possibly hope to prove true?

I have not always been a believer. Until my early 40s I had no beliefsat all regarding this subject. Nor do I claim to be able to proveanything. But it's a chance I'm willing to take.

And the atheist is just fine assuming that once dead, that's it.You don't believe in a God who's going to condemn the atheist to eternal suffering for simple unbelief, do you?

I do not. I think honesty takes priority. I suspect that my responses toyou do more to confirm your stance than to challenge your position.So, be it!You are refreshing andI sincerely thank you.Ken

And I thank you as well! I can see where you're coming from. And I don't begrudge your choice to be a Christian because some of the finest people I have ever met were Christians. It's just that I'm never going to become a God believer because there just isn't any reason TO become one.

If you'd like, I posted an article back in the day which you may show you my feelings towards the Christians:

As if "Common Sense" has any place what so everin a thread where fake a "Atheist" tries to propthemselves up by ignoring their all too manyfaults and exaggerating those of others.-- --http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/180482978308

________

I have genuine faults. For one, I'm quite nasty to some of you bogus Christians. I know it, and I'd rather not be that way. But you all bring it on yourselves. You don't belong posting here. You contribute nothing of intellectual value to this forum. And that's because most of you so-called Christians are flat-out nuts and pathological liars.

You don't belong here. So take your sorry ass and park it in a theist forum where it belongs, you phony.

To put it mildly. I have faults way worse than yours. I can't help but snip your replies. That's because I'm nuts. Hope you understand.

_______

Oh, I've known you're religiously-diseased, brain-diseased, bogus Christian, and a total jerk for quite some time. But hey, if you're so mentally-impaired, you can only thank the God that created you that way. Right?

To put it mildly. I have faults way worse than yours. I can't help but snip your replies. That's because I'm nuts. Hope you understand.

_______Oh, I've known you're religiously-diseased, brain-diseased, bogus Christian, and a total jerk for quite some time. But hey, if you're so mentally-impaired, you can only thank the God that created you that way. Right?

Post by GreywolfOh, I've known you're religiously-diseased, brain-diseased, bogus Christian, and a total jerk for quite some time. But hey, if you're so mentally-impaired, you can only thank the God that created you that way. Right?

Hey, grey. That's how I feel about you.

the dukester, American-American

*****The Purpose of the NT Word of God is not to inform as it did inthe OT,but instead to form us in the very image of Jesus Christ.*****

Post by GreywolfOh, I've known you're religiously-diseased, brain-diseased, bogus Christian, and a total jerk for quite some time. But hey, if you're so mentally-impaired, you can only thank the God that created you that way. Right?

Hey, grey. That's how I feel about you.

Maybe. But you ARE mentally-ill and a total jerk for posting here. You offer nothing to this community intellectually-wise. Just a pathetic retard starving for attention.

You at you, clinging to dogma as if it wasimportant... you're precisely what I wastalking about.Atheists believe there is no God.

Ah! Atheist believe there is no God.Theist believe there is a God. The truth isno one knows with any degree of certainty.So, how is one better off than the other?But the theist has hope there is somethingbetter after this life. What is the atheist hope?

Post by Cloud Hobbitwww.atheists.orgWith this in mind, let us have a look at the Bible on several subjects.The Sabbath Day“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5The Permanence of Earth“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10Seeing God“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18Human Sacrifice“… Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God…” — Leviticus 18:21[In Judges, though, the tale of Jephthah, who led the Israelites against the Ammonoites, is being told. Being fearful of defeat, this good religious man sought to guarantee victory by getting god firmly on his side. So he prayed to god] “… If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering” — Judges 11:30-31[The terms were acceptable to god — remember, he is supposed to be omniscient and know the future — so he gave victory to Jephthah, and the first whatsoever that greeted him upon his glorious return was his daughter, as god surely knew would happen, if god is god. True to his vow, the general made a human sacrifice of his only child to god!] — Judges 11:29-34The Power of God“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19Personal Injury“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39Circumcision“This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.” — Genesis 17:10“…if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” — Galatians 5:2Incest“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” — Deuteronomy 27:22“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17[But what was god’s reaction to Abraham, who married his sister — his father’s daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16Trusting God“A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD…” — Proverbs 12:2Now consider the case of Job. After commissioning Satan to ruin Job financially and to slaughter his shepherds and children to win a petty bet with Satan. God asked Satan: “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.” — Job 2:3The Holy Lifestyle“Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart…” — Ecclesiastes 9:7“…they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not…” — 1 Corinthians 7:30Punishing Crime“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5Temptation“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1Family Relationships“Honor thy father and thy mother…”– Exodus 20:12“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. ” — Luke 14:26Resurrection of the Dead“…he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. ” — Job 7:9“…the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth….” — John 5:28-29The End of the World“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. ” — Matthew 16:28“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. ” — Luke 21:32-33“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.” — Romans 13:11-12“Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” — James 5:8“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” — 1 John 2:18“But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.” — 1 Peter 4:7These words were written between 1800 and 1900 years ago and were meant to warn and prepare the first Christians for the immediate end of the world. Some words are those supposedly straight out of the mouth of the “Son of God.” The world did not end 1800 or 1900 years ago. All that generation passed away without any of the things foretold coming to pass. No amount of prayer brought it about; nor ever so much patience and belief and sober living. The world went on, as usual, indifferent to the spoutings of yet another batch of doomsday prophets with visions of messiahs dancing in their deluded brains. The world, by surviving, makes the above passages contradictions.ConclusionWhat is incredible about the Bible is not its divine authorship; it’s that such a concoction of contradictory nonsense could be believed by anyone to have been written by an omniscient god. To do so, one would first have to not read the book, which is the practice of most Christians; or, if one does read it, dump in the trash can one’s rational intelligence — to become a fool for god, in other words.To be an atheist, one need only be able to laugh when such obvious nonsense is offered as being “divine” truth.All Bible quotes from the Authorized King James Version of the Bible (New York: Abradale Press, 1965)This is an adaptation of an article originally written by former Interim President and current member of the Board of Directors Frank Zindler.But God is perfect, right?

You contradict yourself all the time.

First you say God is evil. Then, you say there is no God.

First, you say there is no evidence for Moses, Jesus and the Exodus. Then you say the evidence I post for those is no good.

Post by Cloud Hobbitwww.atheists.orgWith this in mind, let us have a look at the Bible on several subjects.The Sabbath Day“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5The Permanence of Earth“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10Seeing God“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18Human Sacrifice“… Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God…” — Leviticus 18:21[In Judges, though, the tale of Jephthah, who led the Israelites against the Ammonoites, is being told. Being fearful of defeat, this good religious man sought to guarantee victory by getting god firmly on his side. So he prayed to god] “… If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering” — Judges 11:30-31[The terms were acceptable to god — remember, he is supposed to be omniscient and know the future — so he gave victory to Jephthah, and the first whatsoever that greeted him upon his glorious return was his daughter, as god surely knew would happen, if god is god. True to his vow, the general made a human sacrifice of his only child to god!] — Judges 11:29-34The Power of God“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19Personal Injury“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39Circumcision“This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.” — Genesis 17:10“…if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” — Galatians 5:2Incest“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” — Deuteronomy 27:22“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17[But what was god’s reaction to Abraham, who married his sister — his father’s daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16Trusting God“A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD…” — Proverbs 12:2Now consider the case of Job. After commissioning Satan to ruin Job financially and to slaughter his shepherds and children to win a petty bet with Satan. God asked Satan: “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.” — Job 2:3The Holy Lifestyle“Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart…” — Ecclesiastes 9:7“…they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not…” — 1 Corinthians 7:30Punishing Crime“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5Temptation“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1Family Relationships“Honor thy father and thy mother…”– Exodus 20:12“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. ” — Luke 14:26Resurrection of the Dead“…he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. ” — Job 7:9“…the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth….” — John 5:28-29The End of the World“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. ” — Matthew 16:28“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. ” — Luke 21:32-33“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.” — Romans 13:11-12“Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” — James 5:8“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” — 1 John 2:18“But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.” — 1 Peter 4:7These words were written between 1800 and 1900 years ago and were meant to warn and prepare the first Christians for the immediate end of the world. Some words are those supposedly straight out of the mouth of the “Son of God.” The world did not end 1800 or 1900 years ago. All that generation passed away without any of the things foretold coming to pass. No amount of prayer brought it about; nor ever so much patience and belief and sober living. The world went on, as usual, indifferent to the spoutings of yet another batch of doomsday prophets with visions of messiahs dancing in their deluded brains. The world, by surviving, makes the above passages contradictions.ConclusionWhat is incredible about the Bible is not its divine authorship; it’s that such a concoction of contradictory nonsense could be believed by anyone to have been written by an omniscient god. To do so, one would first have to not read the book, which is the practice of most Christians; or, if one does read it, dump in the trash can one’s rational intelligence — to become a fool for god, in other words.To be an atheist, one need only be able to laugh when such obvious nonsense is offered as being “divine” truth.All Bible quotes from the Authorized King James Version of the Bible (New York: Abradale Press, 1965)This is an adaptation of an article originally written by former Interim President and current member of the Board of Directors Frank Zindler.But God is perfect, right?

You contradict yourself all the time.First you say God is evil. Then, you say there is no God.First, you say there is no evidence for Moses, Jesus and the Exodus. Then you say the evidence I post for those is no good.First, you call me Bruno. Then you call me Duck.You criticize the bible, then you prove you never read it.

Post by Cloud Hobbitwww.atheists.orgWith this in mind, let us have a look at the Bible on several subjects.The Sabbath Day“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5The Permanence of Earth“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10Seeing God“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18Human Sacrifice“… Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God…” — Leviticus 18:21[In Judges, though, the tale of Jephthah, who led the Israelites against the Ammonoites, is being told. Being fearful of defeat, this good religious man sought to guarantee victory by getting god firmly on his side. So he prayed to god] “… If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering” — Judges 11:30-31[The terms were acceptable to god — remember, he is supposed to be omniscient and know the future — so he gave victory to Jephthah, and the first whatsoever that greeted him upon his glorious return was his daughter, as god surely knew would happen, if god is god. True to his vow, the general made a human sacrifice of his only child to god!] — Judges 11:29-34The Power of God“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19Personal Injury“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39Circumcision“This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.” — Genesis 17:10“…if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” — Galatians 5:2Incest“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” — Deuteronomy 27:22“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17[But what was god’s reaction to Abraham, who married his sister — his father’s daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16Trusting God“A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD…” — Proverbs 12:2Now consider the case of Job. After commissioning Satan to ruin Job financially and to slaughter his shepherds and children to win a petty bet with Satan. God asked Satan: “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.” — Job 2:3The Holy Lifestyle“Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart…” — Ecclesiastes 9:7“…they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not…” — 1 Corinthians 7:30Punishing Crime“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5Temptation“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1Family Relationships“Honor thy father and thy mother…”– Exodus 20:12“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. ” — Luke 14:26Resurrection of the Dead“…he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. ” — Job 7:9“…the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth….” — John 5:28-29The End of the World“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. ” — Matthew 16:28“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. ” — Luke 21:32-33“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.” — Romans 13:11-12“Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” — James 5:8“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” — 1 John 2:18“But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.” — 1 Peter 4:7These words were written between 1800 and 1900 years ago and were meant to warn and prepare the first Christians for the immediate end of the world. Some words are those supposedly straight out of the mouth of the “Son of God.” The world did not end 1800 or 1900 years ago. All that generation passed away without any of the things foretold coming to pass. No amount of prayer brought it about; nor ever so much patience and belief and sober living. The world went on, as usual, indifferent to the spoutings of yet another batch of doomsday prophets with visions of messiahs dancing in their deluded brains. The world, by surviving, makes the above passages contradictions.ConclusionWhat is incredible about the Bible is not its divine authorship; it’s that such a concoction of contradictory nonsense could be believed by anyone to have been written by an omniscient god. To do so, one would first have to not read the book, which is the practice of most Christians; or, if one does read it, dump in the trash can one’s rational intelligence — to become a fool for god, in other words.To be an atheist, one need only be able to laugh when such obvious nonsense is offered as being “divine” truth.All Bible quotes from the Authorized King James Version of the Bible (New York: Abradale Press, 1965)This is an adaptation of an article originally written by former Interim President and current member of the Board of Directors Frank Zindler.But God is perfect, right?

You contradict yourself all the time.First you say God is evil. Then, you say there is no God.First, you say there is no evidence for Moses, Jesus and the Exodus. Then you say the evidence I post for those is no good.First, you call me Bruno. Then you call me Duck.You criticize the bible, then you prove you never read it.

Post by Cloud Hobbitwww.atheists.orgWith this in mind, let us have a look at the Bible on several subjects.The Sabbath Day“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5The Permanence of Earth“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10Seeing God“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18Human Sacrifice“… Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God…” — Leviticus 18:21[In Judges, though, the tale of Jephthah, who led the Israelites against the Ammonoites, is being told. Being fearful of defeat, this good religious man sought to guarantee victory by getting god firmly on his side. So he prayed to god] “… If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering” — Judges 11:30-31[The terms were acceptable to god — remember, he is supposed to be omniscient and know the future — so he gave victory to Jephthah, and the first whatsoever that greeted him upon his glorious return was his daughter, as god surely knew would happen, if god is god. True to his vow, the general made a human sacrifice of his only child to god!] — Judges 11:29-34The Power of God“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19Personal Injury“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39Circumcision“This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.” — Genesis 17:10“…if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” — Galatians 5:2Incest“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” — Deuteronomy 27:22“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17[But what was god’s reaction to Abraham, who married his sister — his father’s daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16Trusting God“A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD…” — Proverbs 12:2Now consider the case of Job. After commissioning Satan to ruin Job financially and to slaughter his shepherds and children to win a petty bet with Satan. God asked Satan: “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.” — Job 2:3The Holy Lifestyle“Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart…” — Ecclesiastes 9:7“…they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not…” — 1 Corinthians 7:30Punishing Crime“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5Temptation“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1Family Relationships“Honor thy father and thy mother…”– Exodus 20:12“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. ” — Luke 14:26Resurrection of the Dead“…he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. ” — Job 7:9“…the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth….” — John 5:28-29The End of the World“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. ” — Matthew 16:28“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. ” — Luke 21:32-33“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.” — Romans 13:11-12“Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” — James 5:8“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” — 1 John 2:18“But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.” — 1 Peter 4:7These words were written between 1800 and 1900 years ago and were meant to warn and prepare the first Christians for the immediate end of the world. Some words are those supposedly straight out of the mouth of the “Son of God.” The world did not end 1800 or 1900 years ago. All that generation passed away without any of the things foretold coming to pass. No amount of prayer brought it about; nor ever so much patience and belief and sober living. The world went on, as usual, indifferent to the spoutings of yet another batch of doomsday prophets with visions of messiahs dancing in their deluded brains. The world, by surviving, makes the above passages contradictions.ConclusionWhat is incredible about the Bible is not its divine authorship; it’s that such a concoction of contradictory nonsense could be believed by anyone to have been written by an omniscient god. To do so, one would first have to not read the book, which is the practice of most Christians; or, if one does read it, dump in the trash can one’s rational intelligence — to become a fool for god, in other words.To be an atheist, one need only be able to laugh when such obvious nonsense is offered as being “divine” truth.All Bible quotes from the Authorized King James Version of the Bible (New York: Abradale Press, 1965)This is an adaptation of an article originally written by former Interim President and current member of the Board of Directors Frank Zindler.But God is perfect, right?

You contradict yourself all the time.First you say God is evil. Then, you say there is no God.First, you say there is no evidence for Moses, Jesus and the Exodus. Then you say the evidence I post for those is no good.First, you call me Bruno. Then you call me Duck.You criticize the bible, then you prove you never read it.

See? You can't separate one context from another. The God described in the bible IS evil.We are fortunate that it does not exist.

Post by v***@gmail.comFirst, you say there is no evidence for Moses, Jesus and the Exodus. Then you say the evidence I post for those is no good.

And? There is no such evidence and you have never posted anything other than the opinions of people who agree with you. It does not meet any standard of evidence and like the rest of so called Abrahamic religions is based mostly on hearsay since there is no real irrefutable evidence of any of the miracles or anything remotely supernatural.

Ah, but I have read it.Not all of it as I am not a maschochist and it's so incredibly ridiculous that a little bit goes a long way.

One need not be a bible scholar to know that "big fish" don't swallow people. Even if we assume that what was being called a fish was really a whale, they choke on anything bigger than an orange.

Nor do you need to be a bible scholar to know that a couple million people occupying a small area can not stay there for forty years an not leave a single speck of evidence that they were there.

Then there's the crap about Noah which was stolen from the Epic of Gilgamesh, which was based on an older myth.

Or the whole Adam and Eve nonsense or any of the other supernatural crap contained in the pages of this ridiculous book.

God kills people and punishment can extend for generations. Does not seem like the actions of the loving God Duke keeps talking about while he shows how little he follows the words of his supposed God critter.

The hipocricy of the theist trolls who haunt this NG is staggering. No sign of love from Christians and nothing approaching civility from you.

Absolutely no need to know the bible as a scholar might. It is glaringly obvious that it's all nonsense. If it wasn't for the human brain to compartmentalize contradictions, the whole stupid beliefs of religion would have died out long ago.

It's dying now thanks to the information super highway and the fact that information is easily available on every topic imaginable.

You really should work on sorting out biblical contradictions before showing that you're not smart enough to understand the context of the discussions that take place here.

See? You can't separate one context from another. The God described in the bible IS evil.We are fortunate that it does not exist.

Post by v***@gmail.comFirst, you say there is no evidence for Moses, Jesus and the Exodus. Then you say the evidence I post for those is no good.

And? There is no such evidence and you have never posted anything other than the opinions of people who agree with you. It does not meet any standard of evidence and like the rest of so called Abrahamic religions is based mostly on hearsay since there is no real irrefutable evidence of any of the miracles or anything remotely supernatural.

See? You can't separate one context from another. The God described in the bible IS evil.We are fortunate that it does not exist.

Post by v***@gmail.comFirst, you say there is no evidence for Moses, Jesus and the Exodus. Then you say the evidence I post for those is no good.

And? There is no such evidence and you have never posted anything other than the opinions of people who agree with you. It does not meet any standard of evidence and like the rest of so called Abrahamic religions is based mostly on hearsay since there is no real irrefutable evidence of any of the miracles or anything remotely supernatural.

Ah, but I have read it.Not all of it as I am not a maschochist and it's so incredibly ridiculous that a little bit goes a long way.One need not be a bible scholar to know that "big fish" don't swallow people. Even if we assume that what was being called a fish was really a whale, they choke on anything bigger than an orange.Nor do you need to be a bible scholar to know that a couple million people occupying a small area can not stay there for forty years an not leave a single speck of evidence that they were there.

Horsedung.

Post by Cloud HobbitThen there's the crap about Noah which was stolen from the Epic of Gilgamesh, which was based on an older myth.

You can't prove that.

Post by Cloud HobbitOr the whole Adam and Eve nonsense or any of the other supernatural crap contained in the pages of this ridiculous book.God kills people and punishment can extend for generations. Does not seem like the actions of the loving God Duke keeps talking about while he shows how little he follows the words of his supposed God critter.The hipocricy of the theist trolls who haunt this NG is staggering. No sign of love from Christians and nothing approaching civility from you.

You call me names, hypocrite..

Post by Cloud HobbitAbsolutely no need to know the bible as a scholar might. It is glaringly obvious that it's all nonsense. If it wasn't for the human brain to compartmentalize contradictions, the whole stupid beliefs of religion would have died out long ago.

That proves my point. The bible is a book of faith and you still don't understand that.

See? You can't separate one context from another. The God described in the bible IS evil.We are fortunate that it does not exist.

Post by v***@gmail.comFirst, you say there is no evidence for Moses, Jesus and the Exodus. Then you say the evidence I post for those is no good.

And? There is no such evidence and you have never posted anything other than the opinions of people who agree with you. It does not meet any standard of evidence and like the rest of so called Abrahamic religions is based mostly on hearsay since there is no real irrefutable evidence of any of the miracles or anything remotely supernatural.

Ah, but I have read it.Not all of it as I am not a maschochist and it's so incredibly ridiculous that a little bit goes a long way.One need not be a bible scholar to know that "big fish" don't swallow people. Even if we assume that what was being called a fish was really a whale, they choke on anything bigger than an orange.Nor do you need to be a bible scholar to know that a couple million people occupying a small area can not stay there for forty years an not leave a single speck of evidence that they were there.

Horsedung.

Post by Cloud HobbitThen there's the crap about Noah which was stolen from the Epic of Gilgamesh, which was based on an older myth.

You can't prove that.

Post by Cloud HobbitOr the whole Adam and Eve nonsense or any of the other supernatural crap contained in the pages of this ridiculous book.God kills people and punishment can extend for generations. Does not seem like the actions of the loving God Duke keeps talking about while he shows how little he follows the words of his supposed God critter.The hipocricy of the theist trolls who haunt this NG is staggering. No sign of love from Christians and nothing approaching civility from you.

You call me names, hypocrite..

Post by Cloud HobbitAbsolutely no need to know the bible as a scholar might. It is glaringly obvious that it's all nonsense. If it wasn't for the human brain to compartmentalize contradictions, the whole stupid beliefs of religion would have died out long ago.

That proves my point. The bible is a book of faith and you still don't understand that.

..well not quite. It's a book of faith for those who are inclined tobelieve in god. For us atheists, however, it's just the ancientequivalent of Saturday Night Live.

Post by Cloud Hobbitwww.atheists.orgWith this in mind, let us have a look at the Bible on several subjects.The Sabbath Day“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5The Permanence of Earth“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10Seeing God“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18Human Sacrifice“… Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God…” — Leviticus 18:21[In Judges, though, the tale of Jephthah, who led the Israelites against the Ammonoites, is being told. Being fearful of defeat, this good religious man sought to guarantee victory by getting god firmly on his side. So he prayed to god] “… If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering” — Judges 11:30-31[The terms were acceptable to god — remember, he is supposed to be omniscient and know the future — so he gave victory to Jephthah, and the first whatsoever that greeted him upon his glorious return was his daughter, as god surely knew would happen, if god is god. True to his vow, the general made a human sacrifice of his only child to god!] — Judges 11:29-34The Power of God“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19Personal Injury“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39Circumcision“This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.” — Genesis 17:10“…if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” — Galatians 5:2Incest“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” — Deuteronomy 27:22“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17[But what was god’s reaction to Abraham, who married his sister — his father’s daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16Trusting God“A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD…” — Proverbs 12:2Now consider the case of Job. After commissioning Satan to ruin Job financially and to slaughter his shepherds and children to win a petty bet with Satan. God asked Satan: “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.” — Job 2:3The Holy Lifestyle“Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart…” — Ecclesiastes 9:7“…they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not…” — 1 Corinthians 7:30Punishing Crime“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5Temptation“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1Family Relationships“Honor thy father and thy mother…”– Exodus 20:12“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. ” — Luke 14:26Resurrection of the Dead“…he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. ” — Job 7:9“…the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth….” — John 5:28-29The End of the World“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. ” — Matthew 16:28“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. ” — Luke 21:32-33“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.” — Romans 13:11-12“Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” — James 5:8“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” — 1 John 2:18“But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.” — 1 Peter 4:7These words were written between 1800 and 1900 years ago and were meant to warn and prepare the first Christians for the immediate end of the world. Some words are those supposedly straight out of the mouth of the “Son of God.” The world did not end 1800 or 1900 years ago. All that generation passed away without any of the things foretold coming to pass. No amount of prayer brought it about; nor ever so much patience and belief and sober living. The world went on, as usual, indifferent to the spoutings of yet another batch of doomsday prophets with visions of messiahs dancing in their deluded brains. The world, by surviving, makes the above passages contradictions.ConclusionWhat is incredible about the Bible is not its divine authorship; it’s that such a concoction of contradictory nonsense could be believed by anyone to have been written by an omniscient god. To do so, one would first have to not read the book, which is the practice of most Christians; or, if one does read it, dump in the trash can one’s rational intelligence — to become a fool for god, in other words.To be an atheist, one need only be able to laugh when such obvious nonsense is offered as being “divine” truth.All Bible quotes from the Authorized King James Version of the Bible (New York: Abradale Press, 1965)This is an adaptation of an article originally written by former Interim President and current member of the Board of Directors Frank Zindler.But God is perfect, right?

You contradict yourself all the time.First you say God is evil. Then, you say there is no God.First, you say there is no evidence for Moses, Jesus and the Exodus. Then you say the evidence I post for those is no good.First, you call me Bruno. Then you call me Duck.You criticize the bible, then you prove you never read it.

Refute? You're a spit-bucket full of contradictions!You describe yourself as an agnostic, call yourselfan atheist and then act like a fundamentalist Christian,insisting upon reading the bible as literally true &inerrant history...

You pretend that you're science based only to identifybelief systems such as abiogenesis as "Science."

You scoff at people for believing in fairy tales butbelieve that Darwin invented or discovered evolution,that he practiced science.

Post by Cloud Hobbitwww.atheists.orgWith this in mind, let us have a look at the Bible on several subjects.The Sabbath Day“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5The Permanence of Earth“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10Seeing God“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18Human Sacrifice“… Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God…” — Leviticus 18:21[In Judges, though, the tale of Jephthah, who led the Israelites against the Ammonoites, is being told. Being fearful of defeat, this good religious man sought to guarantee victory by getting god firmly on his side. So he prayed to god] “… If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering” — Judges 11:30-31[The terms were acceptable to god — remember, he is supposed to be omniscient and know the future — so he gave victory to Jephthah, and the first whatsoever that greeted him upon his glorious return was his daughter, as god surely knew would happen, if god is god. True to his vow, the general made a human sacrifice of his only child to god!] — Judges 11:29-34The Power of God“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19Personal Injury“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39Circumcision“This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.” — Genesis 17:10“…if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” — Galatians 5:2Incest“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” — Deuteronomy 27:22“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17[But what was god’s reaction to Abraham, who married his sister — his father’s daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16Trusting God“A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD…” — Proverbs 12:2Now consider the case of Job. After commissioning Satan to ruin Job financially and to slaughter his shepherds and children to win a petty bet with Satan. God asked Satan: “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.” — Job 2:3The Holy Lifestyle“Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart…” — Ecclesiastes 9:7“…they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not…” — 1 Corinthians 7:30Punishing Crime“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5Temptation“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1Family Relationships“Honor thy father and thy mother…”– Exodus 20:12“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. ” — Luke 14:26Resurrection of the Dead“…he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. ” — Job 7:9“…the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth….” — John 5:28-29The End of the World“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. ” — Matthew 16:28“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. ” — Luke 21:32-33“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.” — Romans 13:11-12“Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” — James 5:8“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” — 1 John 2:18“But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.” — 1 Peter 4:7These words were written between 1800 and 1900 years ago and were meant to warn and prepare the first Christians for the immediate end of the world. Some words are those supposedly straight out of the mouth of the “Son of God.” The world did not end 1800 or 1900 years ago. All that generation passed away without any of the things foretold coming to pass. No amount of prayer brought it about; nor ever so much patience and belief and sober living. The world went on, as usual, indifferent to the spoutings of yet another batch of doomsday prophets with visions of messiahs dancing in their deluded brains. The world, by surviving, makes the above passages contradictions.ConclusionWhat is incredible about the Bible is not its divine authorship; it’s that such a concoction of contradictory nonsense could be believed by anyone to have been written by an omniscient god. To do so, one would first have to not read the book, which is the practice of most Christians; or, if one does read it, dump in the trash can one’s rational intelligence — to become a fool for god, in other words.To be an atheist, one need only be able to laugh when such obvious nonsense is offered as being “divine” truth.All Bible quotes from the Authorized King James Version of the Bible (New York: Abradale Press, 1965)This is an adaptation of an article originally written by former Interim President and current member of the Board of Directors Frank Zindler.But God is perfect, right?

You contradict yourself all the time.First you say God is evil. Then, you say there is no God.First, you say there is no evidence for Moses, Jesus and the Exodus. Then you say the evidence I post for those is no good.First, you call me Bruno. Then you call me Duck.You criticize the bible, then you prove you never read it.

Post by Cloud Hobbitwww.atheists.orgWith this in mind, let us have a look at the Bible on several subjects.The Sabbath Day“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5The Permanence of Earth“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10Seeing God“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18Human Sacrifice“… Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God…” — Leviticus 18:21[In Judges, though, the tale of Jephthah, who led the Israelites against the Ammonoites, is being told. Being fearful of defeat, this good religious man sought to guarantee victory by getting god firmly on his side. So he prayed to god] “… If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering” — Judges 11:30-31[The terms were acceptable to god — remember, he is supposed to be omniscient and know the future — so he gave victory to Jephthah, and the first whatsoever that greeted him upon his glorious return was his daughter, as god surely knew would happen, if god is god. True to his vow, the general made a human sacrifice of his only child to god!] — Judges 11:29-34The Power of God“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19Personal Injury“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39Circumcision“This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.” — Genesis 17:10“…if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” — Galatians 5:2Incest“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” — Deuteronomy 27:22“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17[But what was god’s reaction to Abraham, who married his sister — his father’s daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16Trusting God“A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD…” — Proverbs 12:2Now consider the case of Job. After commissioning Satan to ruin Job financially and to slaughter his shepherds and children to win a petty bet with Satan. God asked Satan: “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.” — Job 2:3The Holy Lifestyle“Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart…” — Ecclesiastes 9:7“…they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not…” — 1 Corinthians 7:30Punishing Crime“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5Temptation“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1Family Relationships“Honor thy father and thy mother…”– Exodus 20:12“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. ” — Luke 14:26Resurrection of the Dead“…he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. ” — Job 7:9“…the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth….” — John 5:28-29The End of the World“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. ” — Matthew 16:28“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. ” — Luke 21:32-33“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.” — Romans 13:11-12“Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” — James 5:8“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” — 1 John 2:18“But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.” — 1 Peter 4:7These words were written between 1800 and 1900 years ago and were meant to warn and prepare the first Christians for the immediate end of the world. Some words are those supposedly straight out of the mouth of the “Son of God.” The world did not end 1800 or 1900 years ago. All that generation passed away without any of the things foretold coming to pass. No amount of prayer brought it about; nor ever so much patience and belief and sober living. The world went on, as usual, indifferent to the spoutings of yet another batch of doomsday prophets with visions of messiahs dancing in their deluded brains. The world, by surviving, makes the above passages contradictions.ConclusionWhat is incredible about the Bible is not its divine authorship; it’s that such a concoction of contradictory nonsense could be believed by anyone to have been written by an omniscient god. To do so, one would first have to not read the book, which is the practice of most Christians; or, if one does read it, dump in the trash can one’s rational intelligence — to become a fool for god, in other words.To be an atheist, one need only be able to laugh when such obvious nonsense is offered as being “divine” truth.All Bible quotes from the Authorized King James Version of the Bible (New York: Abradale Press, 1965)This is an adaptation of an article originally written by former Interim President and current member of the Board of Directors Frank Zindler.But God is perfect, right?

Almost every example you listed is the Old Testament Vs. the NewTestament. The New Testament contains the New Covenant between Godand man established through Jesus Christ. The Old Covenant with thedeath of Christ was abolished, so, the Christian is no longer underthe Old Covenant, but under the New Covenant which is the New Testament.www.bible-truths-revealed.com/adv25.html