science the nsa dont want you to study

"Danny Boy, you are not going to patent the gadget. what would it get you? Seventeen years at the most . . . and no years at all in three
fourths of the world. If you did patent or try to, Edison, and P. G. and E., and Standard would tie you up with injunctions and law suits and claimed
infringements and I don't know what all. But you said yourself that you could put one of your gadgets in a room with the best research team G.A. has
to offer and the best they could do would be to melt it down and the worst would be that they would blow themselves up. You said that. Did you mean
it?"
"Certainly. If they don't know how I insert the -"
"Hush! I don't want to know. And walls have ears. We don't make any fancy announcements; we simply start manufacturing. Wherever power is cheapest
today. Where is that?"

-Friday, Robert A. Heinlein

I have always thought that this was something to consider out of all the options available to someone who did invent a better power source. In the
novel this is an actual audio recording played decades later during a big in house battle between factions of the Company this man started. Being the
biggest company in the world by that time.

So remember, just figuring out how to make it or even wanting too, also makes one responsible to contemplate the consequences. If not just to avoid
outright disaster, and develope some precautionary measures before proceeding, but to also have active relationships with the local authorities and
rescue personnel. And if nothing else, then to at least see if there isn't a way to repair damage to society by introducing the gadget instead of
fracturing society irreparably.

The NSA doesn't have anything to do with this sort of thing. They're into crypto and sigint, and that's it.

If you actually HAD something that worked and produced "free energy", you'd get a visit from the FBI with some DOD types calling the shots as
advisors, if you were a US citizen, otherwise it would be Agency. If you were active military, it would be your branch's intelligence crew.

I wouldn't be too surprised if there's a class of technology that is kept under some serious wraps.

I suspect it would be something tied into a lesser known branch of nuclear physics that may yield some elegant and efficient solutions for
matter-energy conversions. In other words it would do matter energy conversion in a way that isn't horribly inefficient and energy intensive (as most
known fusion approaches are) nor would it require costly and difficult to obtain and hazardous materials that the majority of fission approaches use.
So if such a problem were solved in a way that matter-energy conversion could be done fairly cheaply and with even more common materials than the
mainstream methods currently known regarding nuclear physics, you'd essentially have some "free" energy. (Think "Mr. Fusion" in BTTF.)

I'd also take a guess that if you can find out a more "elegant" approach to the mass-energy problem, you may also find some interesting solution to
the mass-gravity or mass-inertia problem. Or perhaps solving this approach first may yield insight into the other. Either way, I think they're
closely related.

The downside to such matter-energy conversion technology (if it exists) to the powers that be, isn't necessarily the fact that it offers cheap and
nearly limitless energy to the common people. But rather is the potential for weaponization of such technology. Imagine if you could build the physics
package for what is essentially a nuclear bomb from household materials, some junkyard scrap, and some mail-order electronics. No fancy refined and
traceable "nuclear" materials required. Wouldn't that be regarded as a serious problem?

Although if such a technology does exist, knowledge of it becoming public will only be a matter of time. Information spreads fairly effectively on the
internet, and sooner or later somebody doing research in this regard will do it with an open and public approach.

I like the idea of natural magnets being the key to free energy. Great idea but don't sit well with me.

I'm not saying anything here but look to more common elements/combination's of elements, and natural progresses, The answers are already out there for
many things, its just a matter of observing, connecting the dots and drawing a conclusion. The mind can run simulations like a computer.

and from these things, if you have the means and the drive, by all means.

Even though in my mind, the idea doesn't work for me, by all means, try

Originally posted by pauljs75
I wouldn't be too surprised if there's a class of technology that is kept under some serious wraps.

I suspect it would be something tied into a lesser known branch of nuclear physics that may yield some elegant and efficient solutions for
matter-energy conversions. In other words it would do matter energy conversion in a way that isn't horribly inefficient and energy intensive (as most
known fusion approaches are) nor would it require costly and difficult to obtain and hazardous materials that the majority of fission approaches use.
So if such a problem were solved in a way that matter-energy conversion could be done fairly cheaply and with even more common materials than the
mainstream methods currently known regarding nuclear physics, you'd essentially have some "free" energy. (Think "Mr. Fusion" in BTTF.)

Think something worse.

I'd also take a guess that if you can find out a more "elegant" approach to the mass-energy problem, you may also find some interesting solution to
the mass-gravity or mass-inertia problem. Or perhaps solving this approach first may yield insight into the other. Either way, I think they're closely
related.

Maybe, but there are no known gravitational anomalies associated with nuclear fission plants. That comes from a specific and peculiar fact about
strong forces and details of how nuclei work, just like particular and odd chemical reactions come from specific details even though everything is
theoretically electromagnetic.

The downside to such matter-energy conversion technology (if it exists) to the powers that be, isn't necessarily the fact that it offers cheap and
nearly limitless energy to the common people. But rather is the potential for weaponization of such technology. Imagine if you could build the physics
package for what is essentially a nuclear bomb from household materials, some junkyard scrap, and some mail-order electronics. No fancy refined and
traceable "nuclear" materials required. Wouldn't that be regarded as a serious problem?

Although if such a technology does exist, knowledge of it becoming public will only be a matter of time. Information spreads fairly effectively on the
internet, and sooner or later somebody doing research in this regard will do it with an open and public approach.

Originally posted by desperation
i just wanted to know if using magnetics on such a scale really was possible. i mean, they claim that the lights themselves ran on magnetics and not
electricity at all

Electricity and Magnets go hand in hand, you run electricity through a conductor, you have a magnetic field around that conductor. move a conductor
through a magnetic field, it induces electricity into the conductor. Lights can only run on electricity, magnets don't cause illumination. Even
induction lighting, which induces voltage (from an electromagnet) into a fluorescent tube. The tube is not connected to any wires or anything, but
electricity is flowing in the tubes.

The real elite who run this world are evil. This is not an opinion I have had all my life but it is one I have come to as of late. They desire to
become people held back by no morals including morals against theft or murder. That is not easy to hear but it is the truth.

If you are a good person: you don't murder millions of people based on a lie, like the elite did with Iraq.
If you are a good person: you don't trump up the threat of terrorism to scare the hell out of the American public and the Congress when over the last
10 years 100X more people have died in ordinary traffic accidents.
If you are a good person: you don't create a power disparity between the elite and the common person through warrantless spying and wiretapping,
giving the elite knowledge of everything about everyone while the common man knows nothing, knowledge is power.
If you are a good person: you don't hold back society to make an extra buck.

The truth is this world is run by evil men, it has been run by evil men for thousands of years of recorded human history. The only difference today
is most people don't realize it and everyone is walking around with a 1984 telescreen in their pocket while begging the elite for the next version to
be released oblivious or unconcerned about the shackles they are putting on themselves.

All the doomsday scenario stuff you hear of probable reasons why the tech is being suppressed is in my opinion, a lie, propaganda.

I think it is propaganda for the intellectual elite who know the truth of what is going on down to the spook in the forum watching what people say.
World wars, new super weapons, global terrorism, economic collapse: it is all propaganda designed to activate the mortality salience response (fear of
one's own death and/or death of others) in those in the know who go along with the suppression so they keep going along with the suppression (I
imagine the fat paycheck they are getting doesn't hurt either though).

Sheer naked lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy, and pride are why things are the way they are.

That is most especially true for those at the very top who are the most heavily invested (emotionally and materially) in the status quo but it is more
or less true for the rest of the people in the know on down the line who are also considerably invested in the status quo, and ultimately there is
even truth in saying the public's appetite for the 7 deadly sins is also why we are where we are right now though I would hardly blame them for the
act of suppression for they are not suppressing anything.

If you actually HAD something that worked and produced "free energy", you'd get a visit from the FBI with some DOD types calling the shots
as advisors, if you were a US citizen, otherwise it would be Agency.

You have been open about being a contractor for the government but I am curious as to how you know this.

In my mind the suppression of free energy or other advanced technologies is completely unconstitutional, that technology is based on science, science
is based on words and ideas, and humankind has the freedom to express any ideas it wants to as enshrined in the 1st Amendment. Not unlike how PGP
crypto ultimately became a free speech issue.

Are the FBI agents involved rogue agents inside some sort of SAP within the FBI? I can't imagine this goes all the way up to the head of the FBI.
How can the DoD be involved? Since when do they have jurisdiction over the FBI or American citizens within the U.S.?

Do you have any more details of the process? Break-ins and theft as alleged by the thread author?

How do we fix this grotesque destruction of the Constitution? Is it at all possible to fix it, to destroy the SAP structures and restore actual
civilian elected oversight?

Call me pessimistic but it seems like this world is being driven into a new dark age by our self-appointed leaders.

If you try to patent it, the DoD gets their innings as it crosses the desk of the examiner. At that point, they can force you into an NDA. Since you
are likely not going to pass the screening for the appropriate clearance FOR that NDA, you will end up in this weird half-state where you know more
than you ought to. They will make it really clear to you what's going to happen if you work on the thing you invented that you're not cleared to
know about. And they'll do that to all your buddies and associates that know about the thing as well. That part is sort of the bad side of what
happens when you have a patent gagged.

It doesn't happen to everyone, I've had it done, but I already had clearance so it's just another notch in my project list. If it's not so big a
deal, say a nice new twist on a ring laser gyro or something, you might even be able to get clearance on your own invention, market it to a prime that
was cleared to deal with it, make some coin, maybe even get a nice new consulting job.

But something like this, I don't think most people would be up to it, so you'd get the sharp end of the stick instead.

If you didn't try to patent it, there's still that "national security" rubric, but the president would be required to sign a pd authorizing you to
be snatched for the good of mankind, that's the way they do it for the DOD's hit lists, among other things.

Has it occurred to those of you who consider the suppression of free energy technology unconstitutional, that this is an example of good government at
work? If everyone has free power, then productivity will explode. With that limiting factor swept away, our resources will be processed at a highly
accelerated pace, producing much much more unneeded crapola for the sake of profit. The skies will be absolutely glutted with airwaves, microwaves,
and other harmful frequencies. If absolute power corrupts absolutely, then should we really be clapping our hands together for free power, given the
corporate freedoms of our society?

I can't look at the PTB, or our governments, and brand every rule they make as evil because it came from that source. That's shortsighted and a
refusal to see the issue for what it is. I didn't always think so, but I do see now that government really does have a place in protecting society
from itself in some forums. If we had a good, responsible government that we otherwise appreciated, I think it is citizen and corporate power-madness
we would decry, not a governing limitation designed to safeguard our health and future... It's too bad the good limit is married to the consumption
of fossil fuels.

Has it occurred to those of you who consider the suppression of free energy technology unconstitutional, that this is an example of good
government at work?

If an informed society came together and its elected officials decided we couldn't have free energy then I would still be upset but I would more
readily accept that decision.

What we have now is an uninformed congress and an uninformed electorate. There is not anything resembling a sheen of legitimacy behind it.

If everyone has free power, then productivity will explode. With that limiting factor swept away, our resources will be processed at a highly
accelerated pace, producing much much more unneeded crapola for the sake of profit. The skies will be absolutely glutted with airwaves, microwaves,
and other harmful frequencies.

If we had free energy our ability recycle our waste would also increase at a highly accelerated pace. The main reason we don't recycle most of our
waste, other than aluminum cans, is that it is not profitable. It takes too much energy which costs too much money to make recycling all garbage
worthwhile. That is no longer the case with free energy.

Imagine a world with free energy where we have created little micro-robots that scower the earth picking up trash. We have so heavily polluted the
oceans and land with trash that won't break down for hundreds, maybe thousands of years. With free energy that is a problem that is more readily
fixed.

We ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil a long time ago, it is a little late to decide not to take any more bites including the free energy
bite.

I can't look at the PTB, or our governments, and brand every rule they make as evil because it came from that source. That's shortsighted and
a refusal to see the issue for what it is. I didn't always think so, but I do see now that government really does have a place in protecting society
from itself in some forums.

I don't brand every rule government makes as evil.

The issue of theft and murder is exactly that, theft and murder. Issuing orders to steal people's science projects or murder them is evil. There is
no escaping that. Thou shall not steal and thou shall not kill are pretty explicit.

We aren't dealing with government protecting society from itself, we are dealing with rich powerful people making the rules regardless of what those
elected to office want to do or the people at large want to do. There is a huge difference there. What you are talking about as PTB or government is
not government it is dictatorship.

There is a word for trying to protect people from themselves: codependent.
It is a psychologically unhealthy behavior, a problem I use to have that I got over.

If you try to patent it, the DoD gets their innings as it crosses the desk of the examiner. At that point, they can force you into an NDA.
Since you are likely not going to pass the screening for the appropriate clearance FOR that NDA, you will end up in this weird half-state where you
know more than you ought to. They will make it really clear to you what's going to happen if you work on the thing you invented that you're not
cleared to know about.

My impression with those national security patent provisions is that they can lock you up for 2 years at most if you violate the secrecy provisions.
I have heard of people being threatened with more years but cops threaten people all the time to get confessions and compliance even when the threat
has no legal basis.

I can't help but also point out the irony of saying a person is not cleared to know something. God gave us a mind, if we learned something with it,
I imagine he wanted that. But then again we are dealing with the same people who would ban cannabis, one of God's plants. Seems to be a theme
here.

If you didn't try to patent it, there's still that "national security" rubric, but the president would be required to sign a pd authorizing
you to be snatched for the good of mankind, that's the way they do it for the DOD's hit lists, among other things

That was my point of bringing up the Constitution. The "national security" rubric is an invention of the 1950s. I am hardly alone in stating that
the Presidential assassination lists with American citizens on them are wholly unconstitutional, Glenn Greenwald and the ACLU have made that case
better than I.

It isn't like the Constitution is immutable, it does have a process for changing it. That process tends to get more of the public involved since it
involves state legislatures. For parties that would rather dictate than govern it is too much trouble.

Furthermore, there has been talk of Steven Greer getting skin cancer, some scientist that reproduced Eugene Podkletnov's work who got sick and died
shortly after in the U.S., Gordon Novel's heart attack shortly after releasing his book. I have a hard time believing these people just had natural
illnesses that weren't caused by murderous agents either working outside the govt or unofficially inside the government.

Propaganda is so invasive, it infiltrates every aspect of our lives. I think the doomsday scenarios painted about new black technologies are
propaganda specifically created for those working in the black world. I think it is to pull the wool over the eyes of these people so they will keep
on keeping on and meanwhile the only real concern is and has always been money, domination, control, power, and maybe a sprinkling of sadism.

2 billion people live on $2 a day or less. Would the world really self-destruct if these black technologies were released in the light of day to
change that? I doubt it, don't buy the propaganda.

If you have a propane barbecue grill when you push the red button to ignite the gas you are generating electricity to create the spark.

Piezo, a piece of quartz crystal when struck is giving off electricity. Mankinds known of piezo electricity for a century.

There is a company right now getting old people and foreign investors to invest their money to create floor tiles that when you step on them they will
light up LED's. This is old school tech that with LED's makes it green. Low cost, free lighting.

2 years ago Japan installed floor tiles in busy areas that take the free electricity and store it. This is technology we've had for decades and only
is coming to fruition now because.....it's happening in other countries.

Originally posted by Pervius
2 years ago Japan installed floor tiles in busy areas that take the free electricity and store it. This is technology we've had for decades and only
is coming to fruition now because.....it's happening in other countries.

It's got a really horrible power output to cost ratio, too. It's pricey, installing it's pricey, it doesn't give you a whole lot of recovered
power. It's one of those "showpiece" things that's a sort of enviro-Potlatchian thing - you burn a lot of natural resources making it that you'll
never recover the energy input of over the life of the device.

It's not just gathering waste energy either, it's being borrowed from the people, and walking on it is tiresome the way walking on a beach is.
You're very inefficiently taking oil, using it to grow food, running it through a human, then through a piezo bender, then through a storage system,
then an inverter, losing energy all the way. But it *feels good*, dunnit?

My impression with those national security patent provisions is that they can lock you up for 2 years at most if you violate the secrecy provisions.
I have heard of people being threatened with more years but cops threaten people all the time to get confessions and compliance even when the threat
has no legal basis.

It's like being in the Army - they can stop loss you. In this case, the gubmint has the option to renew, ad infinitum.

I can't help but also point out the irony of saying a person is not cleared to know something. God gave us a mind, if we learned something with it,
I imagine he wanted that.

God might have, but it's the DOD's rules.

That was my point of bringing up the Constitution. The "national security" rubric is an invention of the 1950s. I am hardly alone in stating that
the Presidential assassination lists with American citizens on them are wholly unconstitutional, Glenn Greenwald and the ACLU have made that case
better than I.

The president would dispute that with you. The line goes something like - the president is given a Constitutional imperative to defend the United
States. Under that provision, there are two or three wowzer Presidential powers - one is the "presidential decision directive", which we call PD's
or PDD's. The PDD is the nuclear weapon - it's secret, all you have to do is convince the National Security Counsel, which always happens in
practice. It never has to be revealed what's in it, or even that it exists, and it's what is used to add people to the s--t list that DoD and the
Agency have. You use the PDD to whack people, or make off with them, and when you see news stories describing Special Forces, SEALS or whatnot going
after someone ala Afghanistan, it's under a PDD, because otherwise it would be frowned on. You also need a PDD when you're going to do something
unneighborly to someone that's not an enemy, for example, we've got a reasonable amount of folk in Venezuela and the surrounding area at the moment
stirring up trouble and/or watching the Russians bringing in people and materiel in contravention of the Monroe Doctrine.

Below the PDD are EO's and Presidential Findings, a lot of stuff comes up in EO's but you have to let more people in on the secret with an EO, and
it takes more people to approve one. So if you need someone whacked pronto, you get a PDD.

Furthermore, there has been talk of Steven Greer getting skin cancer, some scientist that reproduced Eugene Podkletnov's work who got sick and died
shortly after in the U.S., Gordon Novel's heart attack shortly after releasing his book. I have a hard time believing these people just had natural
illnesses that weren't caused by murderous agents either working outside the govt or unofficially inside the government.

Down that road is what I call the "Azande effect". The Azande believe that every death is due to witchcraft, and they often seek out and kill the
perpetrator. To them, no death is natural.

Everyone dies of something.

OTOH, Dr Li got away to China, she was way ahead of Podkletnov, and IMHO she and a couple of her compadres may actually net China some of the stuff I
was talking about in the "shouldn't promulgate" bucket.

Propaganda is so invasive, it infiltrates every aspect of our lives. I think the doomsday scenarios painted about new black technologies are
propaganda specifically created for those working in the black world.

There's a few things I know of that are really awful, you don't want them out. I suspect there are many more.

interesting topic, I wish I had the knowledge to create a free energy generator.

Have you heard of the bloom box? It's not free energy, nor magnetic but it's a new generator concept that was developed by a guy who was working on
the mars project. He worked on it secretly for 8yrs.
I saw KR Sridhar CEO, Bloom Energy on 60 minutes. He's got the backing from big guns like John Doerr who was the backer to google, also ebay ect..

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