I doubt they will allow cremation.At present, most burial plots are leased in Greece, with the family/friends responsible for the exhuming of the relics after 10 years, and the burial plot is used again, so there is no pressing issue about running out of burial ground as there is here in Australia.Cremations are legal in Greece, and do take place, but the Orthodox Church does not permit them for Orthodox Christians.The other issue is that even if the Church of Greece permits them, the Ecumenical Patriarchate does not and is responsible for the jurisdiction of half the Church in Greece. The Church of Greece will not make such a move without the Ecumenical Patriarchate agreeing so as to avoid a worsening of relations with the EP.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2008, 05:04:32 PM by ozgeorge »

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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

I doubt they will allow cremation.At present, most burial plots are leased in Greece, with the family/friends responsible for the exhuming of the relics after 10 years, and the burial plot is used again, so there is no pressing issue about running out of burial ground as there is here in Australia.Cremations are legal in Greece, and do take place, but the Orthodox Church does not permit them for Orthodox Christians.The other issue is that even if the Church of Greece permits them, the Ecumenical Patriarchate does not and is responsible for the jurisdiction of half the Church in Greece. The Church of Greece will not make such a move without the Ecumenical Patriarchate agreeing so as to avoid a worsening of relations with the EP.

Unless, of course, Constantinople is trying to push it through behind the scenes...not wanting to take flak directly.

But all that begs the question: how is Australia running out of burial ground...you guys have almost as much extra land as we Americans do.

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"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry

But all that begs the question: how is Australia running out of burial ground...you guys have almost as much extra land as we Americans do.

The trouble is that city plans do not allow for the increasing need for burial space within city limits in Australia. One creative suggestion has been to bury the dead in biodegradable shrouds or coffins and mark graves with trees instead of memorial stones etc which can then be turned into public open spaces and recreational areas. See http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/25/2374199.htm?section=australia

« Last Edit: October 12, 2008, 08:20:31 PM by ozgeorge »

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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

But all that begs the question: how is Australia running out of burial ground...you guys have almost as much extra land as we Americans do.

The trouble is that city plans do not allow for the increasing need for burial space within city limits in Australia. One creative suggestion has been to bury the dead in biodegradable shrouds or coffins and mark graves with trees instead of memorial stones etc which can then be turned into public open spaces and recreational areas. See http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/25/2374199.htm?section=australia

LOL. Did you see the final scene of "Poltergeist?"

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

But all that begs the question: how is Australia running out of burial ground...you guys have almost as much extra land as we Americans do.

The trouble is that city plans do not allow for the increasing need for burial space within city limits in Australia. One creative suggestion has been to bury the dead in biodegradable shrouds or coffins and mark graves with trees instead of memorial stones etc which can then be turned into public open spaces and recreational areas. See http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/25/2374199.htm?section=australia

LOL. Did you see the final scene of "Poltergeist?"

No. I never saw it. But I think I'd like to be buried in the way suggested with a living tree using me as fertilizer- that's about the only thing I'm good for anyway!

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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

I hope they appoint new bishops before they take this step. A whole synod turned to ash? I'm sure it's frustrating to be a a church hierarch in the post-modern world, but the faithful will still be there and someone needs to educate them.

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"The Unity of the Church, as Your Holinesses well know it, is the will of God and ought to be an inspiring example to all men. It should always be a help and not a hindrance to the unity of men of different religions."-Emperor Haile Selassie To the Conference of Oriental Orthodox Churches 1965

Idea: Why not do as they did in the catacombs? (or similar burial sites)"Bury" the person, then later, after the body has gone down to bones, collect the bones and place them in a smaller box in another location. The family could have a set spot for the temporary burial of their family members, then after time, the bones of their ancestors would be moved to a family (or public) burial site.

I'd think both sides kind of win... No cremation, and land isn't taken up as easily/quickly. Not to mention just like many cremation sites, the bones could be placed in a spot that is vertical as well as horizontal (that is, either up, down, or to any horizontal sides)...

Idea: Why not do as they did in the catacombs? (or similar burial sites)"Bury" the person, then later, after the body has gone down to bones, collect the bones and place them in a smaller box in another location. The family could have a set spot for the temporary burial of their family members, then after time, the bones of their ancestors would be moved to a family (or public) burial site.

I'd think both sides kind of win... No cremation, and land isn't taken up as easily/quickly. Not to mention just like many cremation sites, the bones could be placed in a spot that is vertical as well as horizontal (that is, either up, down, or to any horizontal sides)...

If that makes any sense.

For those who want that, great, that's basically what's already done in Greece...but there's no good reason not to at lest give people the option.

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"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry

Since we don't like the idea of cremation, let's chop the bodies into pieces (since we already do this to saints), put them together in a smaller coffin, and save land space.

I understand in earlier debates, there was a problem with the way bodies were cremated. So perhaps, we should demand a more ethical treatment?

Do bishops not understand that some people have financial problems? They've accepted the idea of organ donations and bodily donations to science and medicine, but when it comes to cremation, pay up (except Japan, since only Billionaires can pay up). Really?

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Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Idea: Why not do as they did in the catacombs? (or similar burial sites)"Bury" the person, then later, after the body has gone down to bones, collect the bones and place them in a smaller box in another location. The family could have a set spot for the temporary burial of their family members, then after time, the bones of their ancestors would be moved to a family (or public) burial site.

That is what they have been doing in Greece for centuries (see reply No. 2).

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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

As an Orthodox Christian I will of course follow whatever the teaching and practice is of the Church.

That being said, several Churches in the US have installed Columbariums (Repositories for cremains) in the very walls of the Church or in Gardens of the Church with an outside altar to serve memorial "masses" or other heterodox liturgies for those who have reposed. These churches have enabled the cremains of dead of their church to be buried as it were within the Church, still subject to the prayers of the Church and with easy access to memeorial services being performed on All Saints and All Souls Day. They are not denying the Resurrection but rather seeking to be good stewards of the limited land available for cemetaries. They do not seek to bury the members of their church family with non-believers in sites on the outskirts of town but rather in the bosom of the church they attended within the building and gardens of the church they loved and attended. These churches have sought not to sanitize death as is often in our culture but to make its very presence visible within the walls and gardens of the Church.

If the Orthodox Church were to allow cremation, we would need to consult the Church of Japan on how to do it respectfully and reverently, as due to civil law Japanese Orthodox Christians have to cremate their members. There wiould have to be a demand in the Orthodox Church that proper respects and dignity be followed, currently the process in the United States is disrespectful and even brutal with the pulverizing of cremains to powder and often the throwing away of cremains that do not fit the container into the trash.

I don't see where it would be necessary.... outside of Athens, that is (where they probably have a shortage of burial plots and an excess number of people who wouldn't care.

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"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.