I don't get what you mean, so my statement probably came out wrong. What I had meant was that the BG breeding program was very similar to the Golden Path, what with it's despotic hold on humanity. Smarter, prettier people, who they bred with other stallions in order to make their KH. If not for Paul they could have had a KH under their thumb, and they would have held the spice over everyone's heads.

As for the whole "who are you" deal: I have high functioning autism, so just ask for clarity if you want clarity. I'm no troll.

In my book you are, stronthoofd ... I would have answered in Dutch but since it's against forum policy I have to reply in English. Now you can calmly drift of into the Internet scatterings because I don't give a fuck about your autism or your academic stature. You remain a small dicked insulting bastard and I will waste no more time on the likes of you.

"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,and wrote a Dune Novel."

In my book you are, stronthoofd ... I would have answered in Dutch but since it's against forum policy I have to reply in English. Now you can calmly drift of into the Internet scatterings because I don't give a fuck about your autism or your academic stature. You remain a small dicked insulting bastard and I will waste no more time on the likes of you.

Very impressive. I have a keen interest in Dune, so I think I'll stick around.

lukecash12 wrote: I can certainly agree with all of you that the BG had a whole bunch of reasons to dislike Leto II, but the fact remains that they were hypocrites. However much of an abomination he was, they would have done the same. Leto II was the perfect expression of their ideology, that he was willing to do anything and outlast anything for the survival and propogation of humanity.

But unlike the BG, who take several members worth of lives to accomplish their goals, he took it on single handedly and thus their hatred of him stems from the sheer amount of power invested in a single person that such an entity implies. I think in many ways he was the antithesis to the BG because he sought to break the universe from its reoccurring restraints and political crutches that left it doomed to be predictable - which is what the BG hoped to keep alive because humanity's predictability is what made it possible to control them. So your statement seems to over generalize Leto's goals and robs them of any of the newness of meaning that he had in them versus the BG's aims.

But unlike the BG, who take several members worth of lives to accomplish their goals, he took it on single handedly and thus their hatred of him stems from the sheer amount of power invested in a single person that such an entity implies. I think in many ways he was the antithesis to the BG because he sought to break the universe from its reoccurring restraints and political crutches that left it doomed to be predictable - which is what the BG hoped to keep alive because humanity's predictability is what made it possible to control them. So your statement seems to over generalize Leto's goals and robs them of any of the newness of meaning that he had in them versus the BG's aims.

Well, had the BG had prescience of the caliber that Leto II, you think they would have stood idly by so that humanity could become extinct?

But unlike the BG, who take several members worth of lives to accomplish their goals, he took it on single handedly and thus their hatred of him stems from the sheer amount of power invested in a single person that such an entity implies. I think in many ways he was the antithesis to the BG because he sought to break the universe from its reoccurring restraints and political crutches that left it doomed to be predictable - which is what the BG hoped to keep alive because humanity's predictability is what made it possible to control them. So your statement seems to over generalize Leto's goals and robs them of any of the newness of meaning that he had in them versus the BG's aims.

Well, had the BG had prescience of the caliber that Leto II, you think they would have stood idly by so that humanity could become extinct?

But unlike the BG, who take several members worth of lives to accomplish their goals, he took it on single handedly and thus their hatred of him stems from the sheer amount of power invested in a single person that such an entity implies. I think in many ways he was the antithesis to the BG because he sought to break the universe from its reoccurring restraints and political crutches that left it doomed to be predictable - which is what the BG hoped to keep alive because humanity's predictability is what made it possible to control them. So your statement seems to over generalize Leto's goals and robs them of any of the newness of meaning that he had in them versus the BG's aims.

Well, had the BG had prescience of the caliber that Leto II, you think they would have stood idly by so that humanity could become extinct?

Leto II wrote

"WHY DID YOUR SISTERHOOD NOT BUILD THE GOLDEN PATH? YOU KNEW THE NECESSITY.YOUR FAILURE CONDEMNED ME, THE GOD EMPEROR, TO MILLENNIA OF PERSONAL DESPAIR."

But unlike the BG, who take several members worth of lives to accomplish their goals, he took it on single handedly and thus their hatred of him stems from the sheer amount of power invested in a single person that such an entity implies. I think in many ways he was the antithesis to the BG because he sought to break the universe from its reoccurring restraints and political crutches that left it doomed to be predictable - which is what the BG hoped to keep alive because humanity's predictability is what made it possible to control them. So your statement seems to over generalize Leto's goals and robs them of any of the newness of meaning that he had in them versus the BG's aims.

Well, had the BG had prescience of the caliber that Leto II, you think they would have stood idly by so that humanity could become extinct?

No - but could they have figured out the solution?

as long as it's not too final...

lukecash12 wrote:

SandRider wrote:I'd just like to step in here for a moment & second the"do not give a fuck about your (insert 'disability' here)" sentiment ...

And that's what you look like

inhuien wrote:"WHY DID YOUR SISTERHOOD NOT BUILD THE GOLDEN PATH? YOU KNEW THE NECESSITY.YOUR FAILURE CONDEMNED ME, THE GOD EMPEROR, TO MILLENNIA OF PERSONAL DESPAIR."

But unlike the BG, who take several members worth of lives to accomplish their goals, he took it on single handedly and thus their hatred of him stems from the sheer amount of power invested in a single person that such an entity implies. I think in many ways he was the antithesis to the BG because he sought to break the universe from its reoccurring restraints and political crutches that left it doomed to be predictable - which is what the BG hoped to keep alive because humanity's predictability is what made it possible to control them. So your statement seems to over generalize Leto's goals and robs them of any of the newness of meaning that he had in them versus the BG's aims.

Well, had the BG had prescience of the caliber that Leto II, you think they would have stood idly by so that humanity could become extinct?

Leto II wrote

"WHY DID YOUR SISTERHOOD NOT BUILD THE GOLDEN PATH? YOU KNEW THE NECESSITY.YOUR FAILURE CONDEMNED ME, THE GOD EMPEROR, TO MILLENNIA OF PERSONAL DESPAIR."

I wouldn't be so hasty to draw a line like that. The BG didn't appear to recognize Kralizec at all throughout the series. Their primary concern was to eventually get humanity under their thumb and breed perfection. But I don't mean that in a despotic sense, having "humanity under their thumb", I mean that they wanted control the BG way.

I think that's the thing though, while I don't necessarily think the BG understood the need for the Golden Path, or even really what it was, Leto II meant something by that message - either he believed that they knew they should have caused the Scattering, or something like it, or he meant that he believed they should have known (or did know subconsciously)that their own plans would not succeed and they should have thought more long term.

I think that's the thing though, while I don't necessarily think the BG understood the need for the Golden Path, or even really what it was, Leto II meant something by that message - either he believed that they knew they should have caused the Scattering, or something like it, or he meant that he believed they should have known (or did know subconsciously)that their own plans would not succeed and they should have thought more long term.

Freakzilla wrote:Well, you know, this was the reason the were breeding for the KH, so he could see the big picture that they could only see less than half of.

Why "less than half" rather than just half? I'm under the impression the BG did not know they were going to get a prescient out of the KH.

Appendix III: Report on Bene Gesserit Motives and Purposes

The Bene Gesserit program had as its target the breeding of a person theylabeled "Kwisatz Haderach," a term signifying "one who can be many places atonce." In simpler terms, what they sought was a human with mental powerspermitting him to understand and use higher order dimensions.They were breeding for a super-Mentat, a human computer with some of theprescient abilities found in Guild navigators. Now, attend these factscarefully:

Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.~Pink Snowman