Whitechapel - On Leaving THUNDERBOLTS2015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/
Lussumo Vanilla & Feed Publisher
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34435#Comment_344352008-03-30T05:47:32-05:002008-03-30T18:37:14-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
The tenor -- and, frankly, the informedness -- of online comics conversation over the last five years has changed to the point where I probably need to explain once again why I don't stay long on ...
It's as simple as this -- if I don't own it, I'm not going to spend my life on it. Joe Quesada and Dan Buckley know that, they're fine with that, and they hire me on that understanding. EDITED TO ADD: I am work-for-hire exclusive to Marvel, and I move between projects at Marvel with their agreement. I think a few people forgot that.

Or, if you like: you can only paint someone else's house for so long before you start thinking that it might be nice to own your own house one day.

I'm okay with painting other people's houses for short periods, because I'm good at it and it pays well and on nice days it's fun. But I never ever confuse painting a house for owning that house. And if I spent every waking hour painting other people's houses, I wouldn't be able to build houses of my own.

The more creators who only took on housepainting as a part-time gig, the healthier this medium would be.

For those of you who harbour a wish to write comics, consider this today: you're either on this side of the line, with me and Brian K Vaughan and Garth Ennis and Grant Morrison and Ed Brubaker and Matt Fraction... or you're not.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34453#Comment_344532008-03-30T07:18:34-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00orwellseyeshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2119
I'll confess, I generally don't go in for the non-creator owned stuff. My first comics experience came from reading Cerebus, so Dave Sim's wonderful crazy got in me pretty young. I really like the ...
Honestly, I'd really like to see more short runs by great creators. I'm not going to buy Green Lantern year in and out if it's terrible. If I knew that Garth Ennis was writing for a year, then a year of Brian K. Vaughn or someone new and talented, then I'd be interested. Especially if those creators weren't at the whim of "continuity" or crossovers or other such. Give me 12 issues of great stories. For every screaming jibbering fanboy who loses his lunchables because Spider-Man is wearing the wrong color socks you'd draw in people who haven't devoted themselves just to the character, but rather are drawn in by great writing.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34460#Comment_344602008-03-30T07:46:48-05:002008-03-30T07:48:29-05:00Joe Paolihttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1116
This is fine and a great way for you to strike a balance, as well as work on a fantastic variety of projects.
It doesn't change the fact that it's likely reading Thunderbolts after you leave may ...
It doesn't change the fact that it's likely reading Thunderbolts after you leave may very well likely be like watching West Wing after Sorkin left. Lamenting that is part of the grieving process, so please don't begrudge us that.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34464#Comment_344642008-03-30T08:14:44-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00mrphhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2847
No complaints here. Although I'll be interested to see what Marvel do with your first arc antagonists afterwards - Thunderbolts has given a number of D-list heroes some credibility, a touch of cool ...
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34465#Comment_344652008-03-30T08:20:37-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00mojojosephhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1796
I have t admit, for a long time I was very much on the other side of the line. My own ideas were going to be all novels and films, and all my comic work would be on established characters.
Now ...
Now however...there are still books I would love to write for because they meant a lot to me in my formative years, like X-Men and any teen superheroes books. But now I also have a lot of my own stuff I want to do in comics. The first project is getting a five page introduction comic in an anthology series I'm publishing out later this year (you heard it here first, etc etc).

I think for me it's because you just can't do the important stories that you would like or hope may define your career as a writer within the books of the big companies. It has to be your own stuff. For example, to take your work Mr.Ellis, I always consider comics like Scars, Transmetroploitan and Desolation Jones to be the ones that really define your own desired work, whereas the work you do for mainstream comics like Iron Man are fantastic and often the best the character has been done (Ihad absolutely no interest in Iron Man until Extremis) but it's as you say, it's a bit of fun and a job, the real creative fun comes out when your doing the work which all you and all your characters.

I'm glad I came to that decision as I matured as a person and a writer, otherwise I would have been a chronic Mary Sue writer, writing absolute rubbish like Chuck Austen.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34471#Comment_344712008-03-30T08:42:29-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Greg SBB!http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=856
Like you say, there's room for both and, I imagine, they fulfil different remits (unbridled creativity and longterm gain vs paying the mortgage now).
While I'd happily trade your whole run on ...
While I'd happily trade your whole run on various WFH titles for new Desolation Jones, Doctor Sleepless or Lazarus Churchyard, without company-owned stuff I'd never have enjoyed the madcap ride of Nextwave or your excellent run on Excalibur or the bitter genius of Ruins.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34472#Comment_344722008-03-30T08:45:17-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00deadhumanhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2765
@Mr. Warren Ellis
Thanx.
Thanx.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34474#Comment_344742008-03-30T09:07:47-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00The Rascal Kinghttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2609
...Do you want someone to paint your house?
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34475#Comment_344752008-03-30T09:08:33-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Joe Paolihttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1116
Yeah, thanks for your great work on the book should not go unsaid. Always looking forward to your next projects.
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34479#Comment_344792008-03-30T09:17:07-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Ferburtonhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=53
I admittedly never actually picked up an issue of Thunderbolts. Thought about it, since it had Warrens name on it, but I didn't feel like I was familiar enough with the characters and it'd be like ...
I only buy creator owned stuff though, because people running around in capes and the sort doesn't appeal very much to me.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34541#Comment_345412008-03-30T13:43:34-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
I'm glad I came to that decision as I matured as a person and a writer, otherwise I would have been a chronic Mary Sue writer, writing absolute rubbish like Chuck Austen.
1) "Mary Sue" ...
I'm glad I came to that decision as I matured as a person and a writer, otherwise I would have been a chronic Mary Sue writer, writing absolute rubbish like Chuck Austen.

1) "Mary Sue" is a shortcut to thinking. On the whole, people I see using the term "Mary Sue" never ever get to be working writers.

2) Chuck Austen started out in creator-owned work.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34544#Comment_345442008-03-30T13:55:03-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00TacoHugsPHDhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=515
Warren, thanks for the two awesome arcs. So far it's been a roller coaster ride full of pervert suits and breakneck twists.
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34546#Comment_345462008-03-30T14:00:15-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00gdwesselhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=25
For those of you who harbour a wish to write comics, consider this today: you're either on this side of the line, with me and Brian K Vaughan and Garth Ennis and Grant Morrison and Ed Brubaker and ...
For those of you who harbour a wish to write comics, consider this today: you're either on this side of the line, with me and Brian K Vaughan and Garth Ennis and Grant Morrison and Ed Brubaker and Matt Fraction... or you're not.

Nope, no issues here. I would love to work for Marvel and DC in my life, but I harbor no illusions of ownership of their stuff, nor do I feel they're the only options. I have plenty of ideas of My Own to cultivate outside of that in addition to ideas of Their Own too. I know (as much as I can without being In The Biz) what I'm setting myself up for and I welcome it all.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34548#Comment_345482008-03-30T14:03:27-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00joaomachadohttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2297
I'm used to just lurking at Whitechapel, but seeing as you are admitting questions, here's this one: when has the language changed from "i don't do superhero comics" to "i don't stay ...
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34549#Comment_345492008-03-30T14:07:14-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00SullyEliothttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1883
For those of you who harbour a wish to write comics, consider this today: you're either on this side of the line, with me and Brian K Vaughan and Garth Ennis and Grant Morrison and Ed Brubaker and ...
For those of you who harbour a wish to write comics, consider this today: you're either on this side of the line, with me and Brian K Vaughan and Garth Ennis and Grant Morrison and Ed Brubaker and Matt Fraction... or you're not.While I do harbor a desire to write comics and screenplays, I've got absolutely no idea how to go about getting on one side of the line or the other. Oh, sad, sad day.

Would I be wrong in assuming that you do enjoy painting people's houses, just not for extended periods of time? If I recall, you've expressed a desire to write more Nextwave, should Stuart Immonen become available, and when I read it, I got the feeling that you had a lot of fun writing it. On that same line of thought, do you consider it a good thing to write both creator-owned and not-creator-owned titles at some point in one's career, or is it better to do just the one or the other? It seems to me that the best creator-owned titles are by people like yourself and Brubaker, people who write on both sides of the industry.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34551#Comment_345512008-03-30T14:15:26-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
when has the language changed from "i don't do superhero comics" to "i don't stay long in superhero comics"?
Years ago. Keep up, son!
When the market changed, to the point ...
when has the language changed from "i don't do superhero comics" to "i don't stay long in superhero comics"?

Years ago. Keep up, son!

When the market changed, to the point where non-superhero books weren't getting ordered in two-thirds of stores -- when that actually became a submarket of its own, in fact. I've talked about this before. I say what I think needs to be said at the time -- dogma is stupid, the environment around you changes all the time and you need to adapt with it. Original work is still and always will be the only coin of value that a writer has -- my point always was and is that you need to be bringing something new to the table, and you can't do that if all you ever intended to do was write Spider-Man.

but if I had to measure what I've read in pages, I'd guess you've written more superheroes than creator-owned. Is this true?

I don't think so. Possibly, possibly not. Might be a close-run thing! Having 1300 pages of TRANSMET in there makes it difficult to guess -- that's as many pages as my ULTIMATE FF, EXCALIBUR, THUNDERBOLTS, IRON MAN and ULTIMATE GALACTUS runs, right there... Not particularly interested in the calculation, but I think it'd about balance out...]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34554#Comment_345542008-03-30T14:22:37-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00brianwoodhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1566
"On that same line of thought, do you consider it a good thing to write both creator-owned and not-creator-owned titles at some point in one's career, or is it better to do just the one or the ...
"On that same line of thought, do you consider it a good thing to write both creator-owned and not-creator-owned titles at some point in one's career, or is it better to do just the one or the other? It seems to me that the best creator-owned titles are by people like yourself and Brubaker, people who write on both sides of the industry."

Jumping in here, just to put my name in the "only one side of the industry" column. I've done company books here and there (Gen X in '00, Vampirella one-shot in '03) but what's gotten me where I am is pure creator-owned work, and it's what pays the bills and clothes my kid and feeds the Roth IRA accounts. Not to say my choices are better or worse than any of my peers, just that it can be done the way I've done it.

And I don't think that writing on both sides of the industry automatically makes someone a better writer. But certainly Warren and Ed can write circles around me! :)

bri]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34555#Comment_345552008-03-30T14:23:08-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00NickMBhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2883
Of the writers you listed, most of them have done at least one four or five year run on a company-owned series at some stage. Most extremely, I think Ennis will have done nearly a hundred issues of ...
Do you think its a difference in your approach, or is it just that you're a hardliner in the movement?]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34556#Comment_345562008-03-30T14:23:35-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Tony Leehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=12
Agreed.
If I could afford to, I'd spend more time on creator owned, things like Hope Falls and Dodge & Twist are far more gratifying to me than the work for hire, but I have to say that ...
If I could afford to, I'd spend more time on creator owned, things like Hope Falls and Dodge & Twist are far more gratifying to me than the work for hire, but I have to say that unless you're a 'known' writer like pretty much everyone you state there (including Fraction these days), you have to take what you can get, and if that's a long term gig? Then you take the long term gig. Because creator owned makes me nothing until I gain the readership. And long term? That gets me the readership.

Down the line? Sure. I'd love to be able to throw my own stuff out more. But currently? I'm not known enough to look for anything more than whatever I can get. And my short term with Marvel's spandex (approximately one ten pager every two years) is substantially shorter than yours...

Still, agreed.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34557#Comment_345572008-03-30T14:25:00-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00jim_mayniamhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=95
thanks for the arcs, warren! i generally follow writers not titles, so i'll be on board for whatever you do next.
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34558#Comment_345582008-03-30T14:31:54-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
In hindsight, there is one thing that needs to be recapitulated here, as I guess memories are short:
I actually had no intention of going back into WFH (work for hire). The creator owned stuff ...
I actually had no intention of going back into WFH (work for hire). The creator owned stuff was selling to expected numbers and things were ticking along fine.

What happened was that Mark Millar and Brian Bendis got in touch -- they'd hit a scheduling wall and weren't able to service twelve issues of ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR, and asked me to help them out. And when your friends ask you for a favour, you do it, you know? So I said yes, and got to work.

That's how I ended up doing more superhero comics.

The first odd thing happened after the first issue came out. Now, remember, I'd been doing mostly original material for the previous few years, and doing fine. But I was suddenly flooded with email from kids -- teenagers -- who had never heard of me before. What was happening, it turned out, was that I was reaching seven or eight hundred stores at maximum, and there was anything up to a couple of thousand stores who just weren't ordering my stuff. I remember talking this over with people at Marvel and particularly DC, and it turned out that this was in fact the case -- that two thirds of comics stores really don't order much other than superhero comics and a few licensed books. And in those years of doing my own thing, the audience had turned over to the point where there were people who'd never read a thing by me. It hadn't been all that long ago that I'd been selling 200,000 copies of DV8 and 150,000 copies of WOLVERINE, I thought...

The second really odd thing came in some months later. Sales of TRANSMET TPBs spiked massively. And the only thing that had changed was that I was writing UFF. What had happened was that these new readers had liked UFF, gone looking for other stuff by me, found nothing in their local store, gone to Amazon or bookstores, and picked up TRANSMET books. A few months later, I saw numbers on all my other creator-owned TPBs pick up too.

And now we can sell more than 12,000 copies of CRECY in a matter of months.

And what's REALLY strange is that I discovered Marvel under Joe Quesada and Dan Buckley is in fact a really nice place to work.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34561#Comment_345612008-03-30T14:33:37-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Lynnhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2348
Well put, that's why I started with an indy comic. And now if all goes well I'm getting a paid gig. I suppose that would be like people paying to see round my house.
And that's fine with me. It's ...
And that's fine with me. It's a labour of love really.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34562#Comment_345622008-03-30T14:33:38-05:002008-03-30T14:36:42-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
Do you think its a difference in your approach, or is it just that you're a hardliner in the movement?
Oh, it's just a difference in approach. You didn't see Garth, for instance, doing much ...
Do you think its a difference in your approach, or is it just that you're a hardliner in the movement?

Oh, it's just a difference in approach. You didn't see Garth, for instance, doing much other WFH. Three miniseries in five years, in addition to PUNISHER? When Grant was doing NEW X-MEN at Marvel, he was only doing NEW X-MEN.

I get wary of becoming instititionalised...!]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34563#Comment_345632008-03-30T14:34:55-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
Not to say my choices are better or worse than any of my peers, just that it can be done the way I've done it.
Absolutely. As I say above, if Mark hadn't emailed me, I'd probably be continuing in ...
Not to say my choices are better or worse than any of my peers, just that it can be done the way I've done it.

Absolutely. As I say above, if Mark hadn't emailed me, I'd probably be continuing in the pattern I had in 2001-2004...]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34565#Comment_345652008-03-30T14:38:15-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
Well put, that's why I started with an indy comic. And now if all goes well I'm getting a paid gig. I suppose that would be like people paying to see round my house.
Garth and I used to call it ...
Well put, that's why I started with an indy comic. And now if all goes well I'm getting a paid gig. I suppose that would be like people paying to see round my house.

Garth and I used to call it "the Clint Eastwood model," back in the 90s. Clint would do a film for the studio, because it meant he could do one for himself after. So he did THE ROOKIE or whatever, and then did WHITE HUNTER BLACK HEART...]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34569#Comment_345692008-03-30T14:46:59-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Jonathan Hickmanhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2121
Garth and I used to call it "the Clint Eastwood model," back in the 90s. Clint would do a film for the studio, because it meant he could do one for himself after. So he did THE ROOKIE or ...
Garth and I used to call it "the Clint Eastwood model," back in the 90s. Clint would do a film for the studio, because it meant he could do one for himself after. So he did THE ROOKIE or whatever, and then did WHITE HUNTER BLACK HEART...

So, do you look at most of your mainstream work as short-term money and your creator-owned as long-term?]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34574#Comment_345742008-03-30T14:53:59-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00ScottBieserhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=477
DV8 sold 200,000 copies?
I was right; you have signed a pact with Beelzebub.
I was right; you have signed a pact with Beelzebub.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34575#Comment_345752008-03-30T14:54:02-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
So, do you look at most of your mainstream work as short-term money and your creator-owned as long-term?
That is actually what it amounts to, in fact.
I mean, I find other benefits to working ...
So, do you look at most of your mainstream work as short-term money and your creator-owned as long-term?

That is actually what it amounts to, in fact.

I mean, I find other benefits to working with Marvel. But the fact of the matter is that the creator-owned work pays me far more, for far longer, than the work for hire. The WFH continually introduces me to a new audience. I consider myself to be writing for two different markets, at this time.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34576#Comment_345762008-03-30T14:54:39-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Muldratehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2872
Well, I don't know if "congratulations" is the right word here, but Iike I lot of others, I'm personally excited about this. There's a handful or writers that I'll follow onto any book for ...
As someone with no ties to the comics industry, I don't have an extensive interest in who owns what, but I have found that creators in general seem to do their best work when the continuity/corporate restrictions are gone and they can work in an environment of pure freedom. Indeed, who wouldn't work best under those conditions?]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34577#Comment_345772008-03-30T14:54:57-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00brianwoodhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1566
I think the seven variant covers might have had something to do with it! Still, that was a hot book.
bri
bri]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34579#Comment_345792008-03-30T14:55:34-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00GregCarterhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=185
For those of you who harbour a wish to write comics, consider this today: you're either on this side of the line, with me and Brian K Vaughan and Garth Ennis and Grant Morrison and Ed Brubaker and ...
For those of you who harbour a wish to write comics, consider this today: you're either on this side of the line, with me and Brian K Vaughan and Garth Ennis and Grant Morrison and Ed Brubaker and Matt Fraction... or you're not.For a long time I only wanted to write my own stuff (and draw it). But that was while I was learning how it all works together. Now that I'm working with artists on my original titles, I started thinking I wouldn't mind writing other people's characters too. So I've done a little script doctoring for a few artists that don't work with a full-time writer but need a little help. I wanted to make comics but not be part of the comics business. This has confirmed that I'd like to be on the other side of the line. I wouldn't want to stay on any one title for very long, and not necessarily for the Big Two.

My fanboy dream title? I would kill to write an arc of Buffy. Dear Joss, I know a guy...]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34581#Comment_345812008-03-30T14:57:08-05:002008-03-30T14:58:17-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
I think the seven variant covers might have had something to do with it!
Noooo, surely not...!
If anyone was curious:
Cover by Humberto Ramos & Sal Regla
Gluttony Cover by Glenn ...
I think the seven variant covers might have had something to do with it!

Yeah, that's what I thought - thanks!]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34585#Comment_345852008-03-30T15:08:19-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00tedcrolandhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2106
It makes perfect sense. If you can make money and keep friends by doing stories that don't really belong to you, why not? Especially if you're good at it.
I enjoyed UFF, I LOVED Nextwave, but ...
I enjoyed UFF, I LOVED Nextwave, but things like Transmet have so much more heart and intelligence to them, I wouldn't trade them for anything.

Ennis' Punisher is fantastic, but it doesn't hold a candle to Preacher, to add an example of someone else's work.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34590#Comment_345902008-03-30T15:20:37-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00SullyEliothttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1883
Most extremely, I think Ennis will have done nearly a hundred issues of Punisher by the time he finally jacks it in later this year.
Er... the MAX title will finish in at just under 60 issues, if ...
Most extremely, I think Ennis will have done nearly a hundred issues of Punisher by the time he finally jacks it in later this year.

Er... the MAX title will finish in at just under 60 issues, if I recall correctly.

And I don't think that writing on both sides of the industry automatically makes someone a better writer. But certainly Warren and Ed can write circles around me! :)

I'll rephrase. The writers I like the most seem to write on both sides of the industry. Their stories seem more fresh, largely because they are able to do whatever they want in their creator-owned works, whereas in 616 Marvel of the DCU they're limited by continuity. When someone tells me "Oh you can't write that, it's too __________," I think my writing as a whole takes a nosedive. Dunno, maybe I'm just looking at it funny.

---

My interest in you, Warren, stems from reading Desolation Jones, when a friend of mine accused me of mimicking your style and handed me a copy of "Made in England." It was one of the first comics I ever read, and will always be, in my opinion, one of the finest. All this talk about creator-owned titles has me wondering if Desolation Jones is one of them. I was always curious.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34592#Comment_345922008-03-30T15:21:41-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
All this talk about creator-owned titles has me wondering if Desolation Jones is one of them.
Yes.
All this talk about creator-owned titles has me wondering if Desolation Jones is one of them.

Yes.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34594#Comment_345942008-03-30T15:26:45-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00TechnocratJThttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=558
Er... the MAX title will finish in at just under 60 issues, if I recall correctly
He did Welcome Back Frank, the ongoing MK title and Born before that. Plus some specials. All together its safely ...
Er... the MAX title will finish in at just under 60 issues, if I recall correctly

He did Welcome Back Frank, the ongoing MK title and Born before that. Plus some specials. All together its safely over a 100 issues. Tom Peyer did do some fill in the MK run but I can't recall where.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34596#Comment_345962008-03-30T15:33:22-05:002008-03-30T15:33:57-05:00Pablohttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2035
Have you ever considered doing the other approach, the taking one company-owned book and only one book for a few years as a constant, stable source of income that keeps your name fresh among ...
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34601#Comment_346012008-03-30T16:03:56-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00philnelsonhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=276
Jumping back out of trolldom for the moment to say I'm really enjoying this conversation.
Back to the shadows.
Back to the shadows.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34602#Comment_346022008-03-30T16:12:11-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
Have you ever considered doing the other approach, the taking one company-owned book and only one book for a few years
That's less interesting to me.
Have you ever considered doing the other approach, the taking one company-owned book and only one book for a few years

That's less interesting to me.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34605#Comment_346052008-03-30T16:29:02-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00TFhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1307
I find it interesting that there is still a need to explain the difference between "That's their's - this is mine".
Not everyone works in comics but everyone knows the difference between a ...
Not everyone works in comics but everyone knows the difference between a day job and a long week end.

I am curious what the minimum audience for a monthly, creator-owned title would be to make it worth the creator's time in the short term. Specifically for the writer who is giving the lions share of the backend to the artist.

I'm speaking as someone who has just found an artist to begin work on a pitch to Image. If it works out I will do more creator-owned material simply because I don't think I have a good Spider-man or whoever story in me to save my life.

Warren - I find it interesting comparing your pre-UFF business model of purely creator owned to something Brubaker said in an interview on Newsarama regarding Criminal - that he makes no money from that book - and in the odd month that it does make cash he has that money saved for the Art Team.

It strikes me that a comic book writer is continuously paying their dues - either because they make their name in the shadow of an iconic character as one of many who've told part on their never ending story or because the majority of the comic buying public stop dead at familiar superheros.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34606#Comment_346062008-03-30T16:32:05-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00barrywynnhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2309
Just picked up the first trade, FAITH IN MONSTERS, last week. So I'm late to the party. Do you know if there will be another?
Either way, thanks for a great read. I'd have never believed that ...
Either way, thanks for a great read. I'd have never believed that anyone would make The Fernis Twins (or rather twin) interesting.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34608#Comment_346082008-03-30T16:47:29-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00MattAdlerhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2888
Understanding your comments about creator-owned vs. company-owned, is it your level of enjoyment that determines precisely how long you stick with a company-owned book? Did you ultimately get bored ...
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34609#Comment_346092008-03-30T16:51:58-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00MaChttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2175
This thread has been really great, I just recently read through Come in Alone on CBR and like many others I was curious about the attitude shift towards the work-for-hire stuff. Always nice to get ...
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34611#Comment_346112008-03-30T16:53:00-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Brandon Seiferthttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=333
Hmm. That's an excellent metaphor for it. Thanks for that.
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34615#Comment_346152008-03-30T17:05:51-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00RayisRayhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=166
2) Chuck Austen started out in creator-owned work.
And, to be fair, his creator-owned work is quite readable for porn comics. (That's meant to be a compliment, not damnation with faint praise.) ...
2) Chuck Austen started out in creator-owned work.

And, to be fair, his creator-owned work is quite readable for porn comics. (That's meant to be a compliment, not damnation with faint praise.) His STRIPS and World-something-something superhero porn were no IRONWOOD or BIRDLAND, but they were readable, with interesting characters. You could do worse.

I liked Warren's THUNDERBOLTS, and I'll miss it when it's gone. Reminded me of reading MARSHALL LAW in the early 90s. Good stuff. Thanks for doing it. Also: you got good work out of Deodato. Deodato's an interesting stylist, but I've seen some terrible frustrations in his storytelling skills manifest with other authors. Didn't see that here, which confirms my long-standing hypothesis that you are excellent at getting the best work out of your artists.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34619#Comment_346192008-03-30T17:28:26-05:002008-03-30T17:29:59-05:00CodyMelartinhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2076
Well, I'm sorry to see you leave Thunderbolts. Your run with Deodato has been really outstanding.
This discussion reminded me of Warren's old Come In Alone column, which frequently delved into the ...
This discussion reminded me of Warren's old Come In Alone column, which frequently delved into the WFH vs Creator-Owned debate. CIA is very fascinating to read now, 8 years later, as a sort of comics industry time capsule. Warren's thoughts on the then-upcoming Ultimate Marvel line and Joe Quesada's rise to Editor-in-Chief are particularly interesting, given what would end up happening.

EDIT: Damn, MaC beat me to the CIA citation.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34620#Comment_346202008-03-30T17:29:05-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Egonhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=698
I hate to say it, but I'm waaaaay late in boarding the Ellis party train. I'd heard of Transmet before, and you seemed to hang out in the same internet circles that I frequent but Thunderbolts was my ...
I don't even think I'd be reading Marvel again if it weren't for seeing Bendis' work on Sam & Twitch and Powers beforehand. It's certainly a better place than when I left it back in `95.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34626#Comment_346262008-03-30T17:43:35-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Andre Navarrohttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1561
My area has always been mature, non-superhero comics (especially Vertigo), so I know you from way back. I've read some good superhero stories ("The Ultimates"), but I can't stand most of ...
Of course the story was written by the brilliant Garth Ennis.

I like the way there's no big gap in quality between your creator-owned work and WFH. Of course your creator-owned work will always be better, but it's nice to see you also do an excellent job on WFH comics too.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34628#Comment_346282008-03-30T17:49:48-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00kaihohttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2881
i think i'll stick to the title after Warren's departure but only because a fellow Greek will possibly take up the writing chores. I'll give him a couple of issues to "convince" me ...
i wish the current creative team could stick for more issues though. It was not enough for me ....]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34634#Comment_346342008-03-30T18:14:51-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00joe.distorthttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1173
i thought t bolts was always going to be finite for you? either way, its been good, and gage is a pretty good writer, not in the same twisted way, but enough so that ill stick around. good knows i ...
ps: since i dont know what the hell a mary sue writer is, is that a good thing?]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34639#Comment_346392008-03-30T18:36:02-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
i thought t bolts was always going to be finite for you?
Yep.
i thought t bolts was always going to be finite for you?

Yep.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34640#Comment_346402008-03-30T18:38:15-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00KaraokeFanboyhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=309
This conversation on the heels of the Superman rights settlement. The cosmos is listening.
For what it's worth, a good writer can make a company-owned property and make you forget it isn't really ...
For what it's worth, a good writer can make a company-owned property and make you forget it isn't really theirs. Consider "NextWave." I can only imagine what fell to the cutting room floor, but that wasn't a B-list Marvel team book, it was an Ellis let loose on superhero camp book. Thank God for it.

I'm confused on the difference, though. Does Warren OWN Spider Jerusalem? If he wanted to continue Spider's gonzo adventures at Avatar, could he, no problems?]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34641#Comment_346412008-03-30T18:38:28-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00BClayMoorehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=127
This is all interesting discussion, as it's something I've been kicking around of late with other creators.
I've found that, financially speaking, I can make quite a bit more money on well-placed ...
I've found that, financially speaking, I can make quite a bit more money on well-placed creator-owned projects, and, as a result, it's hard for me to rationalize not pursuing that work with some vigor.

Of course, the advantages that come attached to work-for-hire are self-evident, and in many ways work-for-hire is much, much less taxing than creator-owned work.

-BCM]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34643#Comment_346432008-03-30T18:38:46-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
i think i'll stick to the title after Warren's departure but only because a fellow Greek will possibly take up the writing chores
Heh!
i think i'll stick to the title after Warren's departure but only because a fellow Greek will possibly take up the writing chores

Heh!]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34644#Comment_346442008-03-30T18:41:08-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
I'm confused on the difference, though. Does Warren OWN Spider Jerusalem? If he wanted to continue Spider's gonzo adventures at Avatar, could he, no problems?
Darick and I own TRANSMET and all ...
I'm confused on the difference, though. Does Warren OWN Spider Jerusalem? If he wanted to continue Spider's gonzo adventures at Avatar, could he, no problems?

Darick and I own TRANSMET and all that is included in that. If the terms of the contract were met (and don't ask me what they are because I don't recall), certainly we could do new TRANSMET stories elsewhere.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34645#Comment_346452008-03-30T18:48:05-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00TechnocratJThttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=558
I'll give him a couple of issues to "convince" me Thunderbolts can take my $3 per month.
Christos Gage is good writer whose current role seems to be the pinch hitter. If you want a ...
I'll give him a couple of issues to "convince" me Thunderbolts can take my $3 per month.

Christos Gage is good writer whose current role seems to be the pinch hitter. If you want a clear idea of what his work is like at its best, take a look at his Union Jack mini.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34647#Comment_346472008-03-30T18:52:10-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
Christos Gage is good writer whose current role seems to be the pinch hitter.
A lot of writers come up like that. And Gage, I believe, has been a professional writer for some ten years. I ...
Christos Gage is good writer whose current role seems to be the pinch hitter.

A lot of writers come up like that. And Gage, I believe, has been a professional writer for some ten years. I imagine he'll become a main guy in the Brevoort office.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34650#Comment_346502008-03-30T18:58:56-05:002008-03-30T19:02:39-05:00TechnocratJThttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=558
A lot of writers come up like that
Oh certainly.
He also wrote some episodes of Law and Order: SVU I think, and I recall enjoying his Stormwatch cop procedural that was part of the last ...
A lot of writers come up like that

Oh certainly.

He also wrote some episodes of Law and Order: SVU I think, and I recall enjoying his Stormwatch cop procedural that was part of the last ill-fated Wildstorm relaunch.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34655#Comment_346552008-03-30T19:48:13-05:002008-03-30T19:50:38-05:00MaChttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2175
I am personally wondering when the average fan and the companies themselves will start to realize that it isn't about the characters, but the characterizations.
I had more of a point, but I'm ...
I had more of a point, but I'm having trouble wording it coherently now.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34657#Comment_346572008-03-30T19:51:15-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00KaraokeFanboyhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=309
Darick and I own TRANSMET and all that is included in that. If the terms of the contract were met (and don't ask me what they are because I don't recall), certainly we could do new TRANSMET stories ...
Darick and I own TRANSMET and all that is included in that. If the terms of the contract were met (and don't ask me what they are because I don't recall), certainly we could do new TRANSMET stories elsewhere.

Cool, Warren, thanks for that. Not to beat it to death, but does DC reserve similar rights, not that they'd make more comics, but in the marketing department? Or do you oversee franchising stuff, too, like those kick ass Spider glasses, or the DC Direct action figure, etc.? If DC decided, could they continue to produce supplemental Transmet stuff w/o your approval?

I think these are the questions the Seigals are tackling...]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34659#Comment_346592008-03-30T19:56:35-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Unsubhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1446
I think having creators like Warren on the mainstream comics not only gives their original work a boost but it makes for a much much better super hero genre.
I picked up the Gage ,Thunderbolts ...
I picked up the Gage ,Thunderbolts International Incident one shot and it had the plot driven story but a unique feel. I will definitly give it a chance when Warren leaves.The guy they got to do a run of Punisher Max during the middle of the Ennis run(I forget the name but it was about crazy cab drivers)was good as well.If the editors pick the right up and comer for the follow up it could help some people find new authors. I also enjoyed Gages run on Stormwatch ,not quite as much as Team Achilles but worth having.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34662#Comment_346622008-03-30T20:06:20-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
Cool, Warren, thanks for that. Not to beat it to death, but does DC reserve similar rights, not that they'd make more comics, but in the marketing department?
They're time-sensitive, as I recall, ...
Cool, Warren, thanks for that. Not to beat it to death, but does DC reserve similar rights, not that they'd make more comics, but in the marketing department?

They're time-sensitive, as I recall, in the merch stuff. They don't get to make more TRANSMET comics without me and Darick.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34681#Comment_346812008-03-30T21:29:29-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00AndrewMayerhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2281
I've made Batman video-games, and Batman never gave me a phone call to say thanks.
The thing to remember in all this is that it in the long run it doesn't matter all that much to the big license ...
The thing to remember in all this is that it in the long run it doesn't matter all that much to the big license books that much whether or not a name writer does or doesn't do a run on the book. At best you can change the direction of the momentum, but the meteor still keeps hurtling through space.

It's great that guys like Warren are showing up to make a buck on these titles, and I highly respect that he's using it as a marketing vehicle for his creator owned work, because at the end of the day these characters were around since we were born, and they'll keep going long after we're dead.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34685#Comment_346852008-03-30T21:53:05-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Zak_Kaveneyhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1805
I'll admit that when I was first getting back into comics about four years ago I was confused as all hell at all these names floating around, and all the different books that were out there. A friend ...
My second confession is that I own not a single book written by Warren Ellis. I seem to go through phases. Specifically: Neil Gaiman, Grant Morrison, etc.

Anyways, when one's faced with so much content out there, there's chance someone's work will never be found. I appreciate your analogy Mr. Ellis, and working both sides of the fence can benefit everyone involved when it's good stuff. I'd say the hardest part is finding someone to publish your work. And with writer and artist being rolled into one person by many people, it seems that the room for paintbrushless writers is becoming smaller. I'm sure getting started in comics is similar to getting started in any field of writing; Just write till you bleed from every pore.

Well, here's to hoping a job driving a semi for a year or two will help in some fashion.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34686#Comment_346862008-03-30T22:06:07-05:002008-03-30T22:07:56-05:00johnjoneshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1052
It's great that guys like Warren are showing up to make a buck on these titles, and I highly respect that he's using it as a marketing vehicle for his creator owned work, because at the end of the ...
It's great that guys like Warren are showing up to make a buck on these titles, and I highly respect that he's using it as a marketing vehicle for his creator owned work, because at the end of the day these characters were around since we were born, and they'll keep going long after we're dead.

That both cheers me up and profoundly depresses me. I mean, I'm genuinely glad the occasional work-for-hire gig helps introduce Warren and other talented creators (and their owned work) to a new group of fans. Also, if Warren making a run on Iron Man or Thunderbolts or X-Beings means the market increases for Fell and Desolation Jones, I'm happy as hell.

On the other hand, the idea that in the year 2408 Batman will still be here, and he'll still be Bruce Wayne whose parents got whacked in "Crime Alley" in Gotham City just makes me tired. I know there's a kind of precedent. People still write stories featuring Sherlock Holmes, after all. But after literally decades of continuous publication how much more can anyone really say about this one obsessive rich guy who dresses in fetish gear and beats the shit out of criminals?

I admit to watching and liking the Batman Beyond TV-series. It had it's flaws to be sure, but at least it was moving forward instead of servicing the same tired status quo.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34687#Comment_346872008-03-30T22:15:01-05:002008-03-30T22:15:54-05:00Admiral Neckhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=919
Grant Morrison's Batman run has been great so far, as he understands what the appeal of the character is and has gone back to that instead of getting bogged down in the soap operatics of the previous ...
Same with Mr. Ellis and Iron Man. The Extremis arc is the only Iron Man I've read and really enjoyed, and it was because Internet Jesus remembered what the character was supposed to be (i.e. the ultimate futurist) and used that as a jumping off point for a modern take on it, all without having to use Ultimate Marvel style reboots. Well, that and going all Jeremy Narby on us. Both these runs prove there are still stories to tell and new ways to use the characters (and I see the irony that the "new" approaches rely on going back to the roots).

Sadly a lot of writers don't get a chance to do that, either because they don't think to do it or they don't have the clout to do something too bold, or the character is perceived to be working well enough to not need a revamp. A lot of characters that appear at the end of their natural lifespan might be revitalised somehow (if Geoff Johns can do it for Booster Gold, I think anything is possible).]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34688#Comment_346882008-03-30T22:18:03-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00joe.distorthttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1173
I recall enjoying his Stormwatch cop procedural
STORMWATCH PHD was fucking brilliant. if tbolts can come even close it will be well worth yr monies.
I recall enjoying his Stormwatch cop procedural

STORMWATCH PHD was fucking brilliant. if tbolts can come even close it will be well worth yr monies.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34690#Comment_346902008-03-30T22:47:30-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00beginsinwonderhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2892
I just wanted to go back to the earlier theme of finding a balance in your work. With the blank page of a wholly original work, you do have more space for creativity, but I often find in m own ...
I am also curious at the parallels in other fields that can share this style of working. The Client Eastwood model works in movies, house painting, and comics it seems, and I have seen a similar set of choices amongst programmers; how do you think Open Source happened? You can only be so creative in most day jobs, leaving teeming masses of folks to find a means to draw their creativity out on their own time.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34695#Comment_346952008-03-30T23:06:51-05:002008-03-30T23:17:03-05:00Michael Woodshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1476
I love writing my own stuff, but wouldn't mind painting someone else's house one day.
I think the short burst thing is a good strategy. Get in and get out, leaving the poor bastard behind you ...
I think the short burst thing is a good strategy. Get in and get out, leaving the poor bastard behind you plenty to play with and a lot to live up to.

EDIT: Any chance of a new Vertigo series or mini anytime in the near future?]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34702#Comment_347022008-03-30T23:33:03-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Jon Wakehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1684
It was a neat run.
Maybe I'm a little divorced from fanboydom, because I never think of anyones WFH stuff as anything more than 'neat'. All the really interesting stuff going on these days is in ...
Maybe I'm a little divorced from fanboydom, because I never think of anyones WFH stuff as anything more than 'neat'. All the really interesting stuff going on these days is in creator-owned books.

I just don't get that sense of entitlement people get about work they have contributed nothing more than $3.50 to.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34731#Comment_347312008-03-31T02:08:38-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00David xvx Luddhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1059
Darick and I own TRANSMET and all that is included in that. If the terms of the contract were met (and don't ask me what they are because I don't recall), certainly we could do new TRANSMET stories ...
Darick and I own TRANSMET and all that is included in that. If the terms of the contract were met (and don't ask me what they are because I don't recall), certainly we could do new TRANSMET stories elsewhere.

If you don't mind me asking a pretty tedious question...is there much of a continuum between the two poles (fully creator-owned and fully WFH) in comic books? Are - for example - there examples where a writer is hired to write a certain existing book, but retains right to new IP created in that book (new characters etc), or where someone owns the IP of a book, but allows (or pays...) a publisher to hire new writers on it, or where someone owns the IP (and so receives royalties etc), but is heavily restricted through restraint of trade clauses etc?

(Yes, I worked in a corporate law firm...though I find this interesting in terms of considering possible contracts, I'm intrigued by the existence of possible middle-ground works. Was Strange Kisses etc WFH or creator owned (or a middle ground?)? If the latter, could this perhaps be part of a developing middle road, where creators retain IP but licence it out...or is this already common place?)]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34732#Comment_347322008-03-31T02:11:49-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00magmarhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2897
I never ever assumed Warren would just do Thunderbolts indefinitely. It just didn´t make sense before his announcement, because there were other series he just jumped on and then left. I don´t have ...
I do believe the Garth Ennis - Warren Ellis stance is the better way. Nothing against whoring out, it pays the bills, it brings in some new readers, but it should be done with some restraint. Keeps you from getting too much blood on your ass...]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34739#Comment_347392008-03-31T03:35:22-05:002008-03-31T03:39:20-05:00Owslerhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=861
I'm quite surprised you needed to explain the reasoning behind short stint work. It must be far more exciting for a writer to know you're free to maintain your own creations while being inspired in ...
Admittedly I was slightly put off by the aggressive change in the Thunderbolts concept, but just as it is for many of your contemporaries, it's your ability to breath new life into old, kind of goofy characters, that is a huge draw along with a wealth of storytelling ideas that burst with potential. The whole psychic Trojan Horse (if I can call it that) was inspired.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34741#Comment_347412008-03-31T03:43:02-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
I'm quite surprised you needed to explain the reasoning behind short stint work.
Judging by the email I was getting, some people weren't understanding.
I'm quite surprised you needed to explain the reasoning behind short stint work.

Judging by the email I was getting, some people weren't understanding.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34749#Comment_347492008-03-31T04:38:18-05:002008-03-31T04:38:43-05:00John Keatshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2099
I understand because even if I have read you these last few years it was uneasy to really get the meaning of this work for hire stuff since UFF. at first I didn"t like it, especially this first ...
by the wat I miss a lot Desolation Jones, the first issues were rock solid, I have less enthusiasm for the two issues made by Zezelj, but damn this book had potential.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34752#Comment_347522008-03-31T04:52:25-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Tedhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=260
@David xvx Ludd
Are - for example - there examples where a writer is hired to write a certain existing book, but retains right to new IP created in that book (new characters etc)
Yes, the ...

Are - for example - there examples where a writer is hired to write a certain existing book, but retains right to new IP created in that book (new characters etc)

Yes, the obvious example coming to mind is the dispute between Neil Gaiman and Todd MacFarlane over some ownership of characters Gaiman created whilst writing an issue of Spawn.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34760#Comment_347602008-03-31T05:45:17-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Insect Kinghttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1357
warrenellis di d write this:
Judging by the email I was getting, some people weren't understanding.
Direct them to Crecy and say you've hidden the answer in an elaborate code based on visuals and ...
Judging by the email I was getting, some people weren't understanding.

Direct them to Crecy and say you've hidden the answer in an elaborate code based on visuals and metaphor as you understand the comics industry currently to be.

Cheers,

Chris.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34809#Comment_348092008-03-31T07:38:09-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00dnwilliamshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2900
it's always made perfect sense to me that an author would want to write predominantly creator-owned work, but it's great that the WFH setup allows established company titles to benefit from the ...
i'm pretty sure the first ellis-penned book i read was the authority, although i was ignorant of who had written it at the time (being eleven years old and not caring), is that creator-owned? i'm not sure, but i do know the first ellis titles i read were picked up on the basis of word of mouth hype, borrowing global frequency from someone etc...not a surefire way to secure an audience, whereas doing a stint on a marvel title is.

thunderbolts has been the only post-civil war book i've picked up that has been entrenched in the marvel u's new stat quo and it's been incredible thus far, i hope you're going out in a blaze of glory mr ellis! i look forward to more marvel work in the future]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34818#Comment_348182008-03-31T07:59:48-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
i'm pretty sure the first ellis-penned book i read was the authority, although i was ignorant of who had written it at the time (being eleven years old and not caring), is that creator-owned?
No. ...
i'm pretty sure the first ellis-penned book i read was the authority, although i was ignorant of who had written it at the time (being eleven years old and not caring), is that creator-owned?

No. (Although DC does compensate Bryan and I for having created some of those characters.)]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34821#Comment_348212008-03-31T08:03:30-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Bruce O. Hugheshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2274
warren, if you were to wake up tomorrow and find your self as the EIC of Marvel (would that be a BIG stretch?) who would be your choice as the new creative team on The Thunderbolts?
just ...
just curious...]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34829#Comment_348292008-03-31T08:12:26-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
No opinion, sorry. And my even considering that in public would do a serious disservice to the new writer, Christos Gage.
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34838#Comment_348382008-03-31T08:50:05-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00XIbalba2012http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1917
I actually fell off of the Thunderbolts book shortly after your takeover. Mostly due to the loss of work, and lack of funds. Damn shame really, as I always liked the book (except when it was all ...
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34867#Comment_348672008-03-31T09:34:01-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Derlethhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1447
Oddly enough, my personal favorite WTH work of your was RUINS. I will never get the partially disemboweled Kitty Pride out of my skull.
RUINS. I will never get the partially disemboweled Kitty Pride out of my skull.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34914#Comment_349142008-03-31T10:43:22-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00veryunderstatedhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=906
No opinion, sorry. And my even considering that in public would do a serious disservice to the new writer, Christos Gage.
okay, how about we change up the question a bit. If you woke up as EIC of ...
No opinion, sorry. And my even considering that in public would do a serious disservice to the new writer, Christos Gage.

okay, how about we change up the question a bit. If you woke up as EIC of WildStorm, who would you want to work on The Authority?]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34916#Comment_349162008-03-31T10:47:40-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00tedcrolandhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2106
okay, how about we change up the question a bit. If you woke up as EIC of WildStorm, who would you want to work on The Authority?
I believe that the response to this will be akin to the first one, ...
okay, how about we change up the question a bit. If you woke up as EIC of WildStorm, who would you want to work on The Authority?

I believe that the response to this will be akin to the first one, especially since Christos Gage is also writing that book. Not to mention the fact that Darick Robertson is penciling it.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34923#Comment_349232008-03-31T11:06:20-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Maliferhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=203
Ellis,
You mentioned getting readers from UFF to Transmet. I thought I would share how I started following your work. I'm sure I had read DV8, Age of Apoc, maybe some the DOOM 2099 stuff but I ...
You mentioned getting readers from UFF to Transmet. I thought I would share how I started following your work. I'm sure I had read DV8, Age of Apoc, maybe some the DOOM 2099 stuff but I wasn't paying attention to whom was making the books (I was young), but I was joining the Scifi Book Club for the second or third time and they had started giving the first two Transmet trades as a selection and "I figured what the hell, people said it was good I'll give a shot".

I was hooked went comic store subscribed to Transmet around issue thirty something and I have been looking forward your books ever since. sfbc got you at least one fan.

I actually prefer shorter stints for writers. I think you get more concise stronger stories. I remember in the 80s and maybe early 90s there was one guy who had written Captain America for like 10 years or something and at first the were good stories but in the end I distinctly remember one where Cap turns into a werewolf and another one where Capt got cancer and dressed like Super-Pro. Less than the man best, but hell after cranking out tens years of stories for one character it was bound to happen.

Speaking of Super-pro that is a comic book character I dare any writer to make cool. lol]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34966#Comment_349662008-03-31T12:24:02-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00James Pucketthttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2911
I haven’t read a superhero book in at least a year. I can’t say that I miss them much: trying to keep track of the Marvel universe over the last two decades just took too much effort.
But ...
But when I was a kid, there were some really terrible books out there. It’s good to see that so many of the really great comic writers are doing the superhero books along with their own stuff. It gives me hope that at some point I’ll have kids who read comics, and there will be some really great writing there for them.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=34980#Comment_349802008-03-31T12:39:35-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00alwayscrashinghttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=162
Just to be awkward I went the other way.
I was very much a Vertigo (and similar) only person until fairly recently.... Then names like Warren Ellis, Neil Gaiman, Mike Carey and Grant Morrison got ...
I was very much a Vertigo (and similar) only person until fairly recently.... Then names like Warren Ellis, Neil Gaiman, Mike Carey and Grant Morrison got me picking up the pervert-suit comics as well, and while I will probably never rate X-Men, UFF, etc as being anywhere near as good as Transmet, Desolation Jones, Doktor Sleepless, etc, they can still be great fun if they have the right writer.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35035#Comment_350352008-03-31T14:24:39-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00epalickihttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=170
I read the announcement over on Newsarama and then made the mistake of looking over the talk-back comments.
Man, between this and the Superman copyright thread, comics has actually succeeded in ...
Man, between this and the Superman copyright thread, comics has actually succeeded in making me dumber today.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35054#Comment_350542008-03-31T14:53:16-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00veryunderstatedhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=906
I believe that the response to this will be akin to the first one, especially since Christos Gage is also writing that book. Not to mention the fact that Darick Robertson is penciling it.
actually ...
I believe that the response to this will be akin to the first one, especially since Christos Gage is also writing that book. Not to mention the fact that Darick Robertson is penciling it.

actually he isn't anymore. the miniseries he was doing is done now, so the question is rather appropriate if there hasn't been another writer picked for whatever is to come next for the authority]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35069#Comment_350692008-03-31T15:17:49-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Jim Moorehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=578
Judging by the email I was getting, some people weren't understanding.
These must be, for the most part, the new readers you are attracting, so I would think that it's a positive, at least in ...
Judging by the email I was getting, some people weren't understanding.

These must be, for the most part, the new readers you are attracting, so I would think that it's a positive, at least in terms of audience not knowing your MO.

Hopefully this translates into good sales on your Avatar novellas.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35099#Comment_350992008-03-31T16:34:10-05:002008-03-31T16:34:35-05:00promethianhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2599
The second really odd thing came in some months later. Sales of TRANSMET TPBs spiked massively. And the only thing that had changed was that I was writing UFF. What had happened was that these new ...
The second really odd thing came in some months later. Sales of TRANSMET TPBs spiked massively. And the only thing that had changed was that I was writing UFF. What had happened was that these new readers had liked UFF, gone looking for other stuff by me, found nothing in their local store, gone to Amazon or bookstores, and picked up TRANSMET books. A few months later, I saw numbers on all my other creator-owned TPBs pick up too.

And now we can sell more than 12,000 copies of CRECY in a matter of months.

So Warren, translation... if you work in WFH for a while it gets all the new readers interested in your creator-owned/ independent/ superhero & non-superhero stuff... then that sells books and benefits you financially and allows you to do purely creator-owned work for a while... until it is time to introduce a new crop of (up to this point) superhero comics readers to your body of work... mission accomplished, you go back to WFH for a while... and the cycle continues... ? Sounds like an awesome system you got going on.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35111#Comment_351112008-03-31T17:01:47-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00promethianhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2599
Warren, I must say that my interest in comics has waxed and waned a lot over the years, but your writing has constantly refreshed my interest in them. I remember reading an issue of Doom 2099 where ...
I have seen a lot of praise for your Transmet series in this thread, but I gotta say that for me your creator-owned wildstorm series "Planetary" wasn't merely my favorite Ellis comic, but is actually my fave series of all time. And I know from following the Wildstorm message board for a while that it was the favorite series of quite a few readers. I don't read superhero stuff much anymore so the fact that you are gonna do a lot more creator owned stuff is fine in my books.

Whatever you do will be interesting or awesome!]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35116#Comment_351162008-03-31T17:12:32-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00promethianhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2599
PS one more thing: I love the way you portray villains, you write them as kick-ass bad. some writers take classic villains, do stuff like make them disproportionally old relative to the main ...
Example: in Thunderbolts, you totally resucitated the character of Mac Gargan, formerly the Spider-man villain the Scorpion. He was a great villain back in the classic Lee-Romita era of spiderman, but treated like a total loser who gets his ass kicked without a please or thank you by recent spiderman writers in the last decade. under your pen he is a once again a powerhouse, this time of brain chomping evilness. you have restored his dignity in villany! That is totally the way he should be written. thanks man!]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35117#Comment_351172008-03-31T17:14:01-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Spiraltwisthttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=426
I can't believe this is two pages.
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35120#Comment_351202008-03-31T17:28:09-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
I can't believe this is two pages.
It's been one of those days. 501 messages posted in the last 24hrs... that's like 33% of the old WEF message velocity, and that place was huge and had three or ...
I can't believe this is two pages.

It's been one of those days. 501 messages posted in the last 24hrs... that's like 33% of the old WEF message velocity, and that place was huge and had three or four years under its belt at that point.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35131#Comment_351312008-03-31T18:21:55-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00chris ghttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1829
Hee-hee, you should see the newsarama posts about this (not really).
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35132#Comment_351322008-03-31T18:37:35-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
I can live without seeing what, or if, they think.
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35134#Comment_351342008-03-31T18:42:14-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00seanarcherhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2055
So, just because I know I can't be the only one piqued by a few of your comments in the thread, what are the odds of you and Derrick actually finding yourselves wanting to revisit Transmet?
wanting to revisit Transmet?]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35140#Comment_351402008-03-31T19:06:10-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
Zero.
And it's "Darick."
And it's "Darick."]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35145#Comment_351452008-03-31T19:52:14-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Spiraltwisthttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=426
@warrenellis
It's been one of those days. 501 messages posted in the last 24hrs... that's like 33% of the old WEF message velocity, and that place was huge and had three or four years under its belt ...
It's been one of those days. 501 messages posted in the last 24hrs... that's like 33% of the old WEF message velocity, and that place was huge and had three or four years under its belt at that point.

Off the subject for a second. Does this bother you, or make you ecstatic?]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35166#Comment_351662008-03-31T22:27:45-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00BClayMoorehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=127
The truth is that at this point, Warren is a brand unto himself. He doesn't need the WFH to increase interest in his creator-owned work.
But if you're sitting there as a fledgling creator trying ...
But if you're sitting there as a fledgling creator trying to learn lessons from Warren's experiences, you're most likely barking up the wrong tree. There is no logic, nor rhyme or reason to the way things work. Do what you do, and do it well, and see how things shake out.

Also: I have a very hard time believing that Warren's UFF work led to the massive spike in TRANSMET sales, for what it's worth. I can't fathom how that would correlate.

-BCM]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35172#Comment_351722008-03-31T22:49:45-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00caseyvegashttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2923
Hi Warren,
Sure this has been answered before - but if Q and B know your stand on creator owned stuff, how come they have not offered to publish all this great new stuff you've been doing via Icon?
Sure this has been answered before - but if Q and B know your stand on creator owned stuff, how come they have not offered to publish all this great new stuff you've been doing via Icon?]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35173#Comment_351732008-03-31T22:54:57-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00William Christensenhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5
@caseyvegas - Why would Icon be a better home than Avatar?
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35175#Comment_351752008-03-31T22:58:34-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00SJDhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1298
@William Christensen
I know right?
BTW: Thanks for giving all of Warren's recent creator-owned toys a wonderful new home.
I know right?

BTW: Thanks for giving all of Warren's recent creator-owned toys a wonderful new home.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35177#Comment_351772008-03-31T23:01:17-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00caseyvegashttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2923
No offense William - just thought that Marvel would go the extra step to try and keep Warren there with them...not meant to say Icon is better than Avatar...
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35183#Comment_351832008-03-31T23:12:02-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Egonhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=698
Plant!
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35185#Comment_351852008-03-31T23:17:05-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00caseyvegashttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2923
I'm thinking this is the typical new guy hazing routine...
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35188#Comment_351882008-03-31T23:42:16-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Egonhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=698
Totally. Welcome, friend!
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35241#Comment_352412008-04-01T06:05:05-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
Also: I have a very hard time believing that Warren's UFF work led to the massive spike in TRANSMET sales, for what it's worth. I can't fathom how that would correlate.
There was nothing else ...
Also: I have a very hard time believing that Warren's UFF work led to the massive spike in TRANSMET sales, for what it's worth. I can't fathom how that would correlate.

There was nothing else happening that would explain a seriously unusual spike (which has pretty much stayed there). And, later, the fanmail confirmed it.

They were both science fiction works. I wrote UFF as YA sf, and I think that's the correlation -- I think TRANSMET was the first "grown-up" sf graphic novel for a lot of them.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35257#Comment_352572008-04-01T06:59:32-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Insect Kinghttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1357
That BClayMoore guy wrote:
Also: I have a very hard time believing that Warren's UFF work led to the massive spike in TRANSMET sales, for what it's worth. I can't fathom how that would ...
That BClayMoore guy wrote:Also: I have a very hard time believing that Warren's UFF work led to the massive spike in TRANSMET sales, for what it's worth. I can't fathom how that would correlate.

I don't. For the longest time Transmet vol 2 and 8 were out of print and getting 4 or 5 was troublesome and most times they were up two weeks late from order from Diamond. They were not getting reprinted - for another hideous Absolute edition, I suppose - when all of a sudden, they started coming in thick and fast, an indication in my mind of a new surge in popularity.

Cheers,

Chris.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35263#Comment_352632008-04-01T07:17:49-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
They were not getting reprinted - for another hideous Absolute edition, I suppose - when all of a sudden, they started coming in thick and fast, an indication in my mind of a new surge in ...
They were not getting reprinted - for another hideous Absolute edition, I suppose - when all of a sudden, they started coming in thick and fast, an indication in my mind of a new surge in popularity.

There was never any question of an Absolute edition. I guess they just weren't getting reprinted.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35452#Comment_354522008-04-01T14:12:04-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00tedcrolandhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2106
Would you be adverse to approving an absolute edition?
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35505#Comment_355052008-04-01T16:25:24-05:002008-04-01T16:25:36-05:00Admiral Neckhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=919
Surely such a thing could only be bound in human skin.
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35517#Comment_355172008-04-01T16:41:33-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00tedcrolandhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2106
Damn, that would make it expensive.
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35518#Comment_355182008-04-01T16:42:21-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Zhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=184
And likely to smell like bacon.
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35521#Comment_355212008-04-01T16:44:09-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00TechnocratJThttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=558
And likely to smell like bacon.
Which, all things considered - a selling point.
And likely to smell like bacon.

Which, all things considered - a selling point.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35522#Comment_355222008-04-01T16:45:16-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00tedcrolandhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2106
I don't think anyone here would be against owning an edition of Transmet bound in human skin. I'd buy two!
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35539#Comment_355392008-04-01T17:21:24-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
Would you be adverse to approving an absolute edition?
Yes. I want those books as affordable as possible.
Would you be adverse to approving an absolute edition?

Yes. I want those books as affordable as possible.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35551#Comment_355512008-04-01T17:36:26-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Zhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=184
I realise this topic is getting old, so I'll assume this won't get answered:
The Absolute edition of other books hasn't meant the removal or discontinuation of smaller volumes- is this ...
The Absolute edition of other books hasn't meant the removal or discontinuation of smaller volumes- is this something you think would be the case for Transmet in particular? I only ask this because a limited edition of Crooked Little Vein was produced, so I don't see 'limited' or 'special' editions being the concern.

- Z]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35553#Comment_355532008-04-01T17:41:52-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
The Absolute edition of other books hasn't meant the removal or discontinuation of smaller volumes
Given the trouble they seem to be having keeping the TPB version in print, I rather think as ...
The Absolute edition of other books hasn't meant the removal or discontinuation of smaller volumes

Given the trouble they seem to be having keeping the TPB version in print, I rather think as Absolute would be discontinuation-by-default. Better they keep their focus on keeping the TPB version around.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35556#Comment_355562008-04-01T17:44:19-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Zhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=184
Okay, thanks. Subject dropped.
- Z
- Z]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35578#Comment_355782008-04-01T18:54:11-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Mark Rhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=198
The last four posts make lots about the idea of an Absolute Transmet more clear to me.
Warren - While the idea of a hardcover set of Transmet is cool, thanks for keeping the working folk in ...
Warren - While the idea of a hardcover set of Transmet is cool, thanks for keeping the working folk in mind.

Now like Z said... Subject dropped.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35643#Comment_356432008-04-01T22:15:29-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00will_butlerhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=892
Keeping Transmet cheap is a very wise move. When I was first getting back into comics as a cash-strapped college student, one of the main reasons I picked up Back on the Street was because it was ...
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35657#Comment_356572008-04-01T23:01:30-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00orwellseyeshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2119
There was nothing else happening that would explain a seriously unusual spike (which has pretty much stayed there). And, later, the fanmail confirmed it.
As an anecdote, I've often discovered new ...
There was nothing else happening that would explain a seriously unusual spike (which has pretty much stayed there). And, later, the fanmail confirmed it.

As an anecdote, I've often discovered new writers by asking my comic shop guy for "anything else by so-and-so". Seen more than a few other people doing the same.

Really good comic shops will have displays up that highlight the other work by someone getting mainstream attention. I've seen "Other works by Warren Ellis" at least two comic shops around me. Good shops know how to sell.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35704#Comment_357042008-04-02T03:57:37-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00David xvx Luddhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1059
On reprints: Wasn't there a (planned?) rejig of the numbering early last year? Combining Vols 1 and 2 or something? I was under the impression from a thread on The Engine that the discontinuation ...
On cross-pollination: I'm the opposite to the UFF->Transmet types: It was reading Transmet in the library that got me buying comics again (first Transmet, then across to Preacher, then...) and it was our Mister Ellis' name that got me back onto superhero stuff (Planetary (if that counts), then Stormwatch, then the Authority), through I'm still very, very wary of buying Marvell stuff. They scared me off comics back in the Rob Liefield era, when I was barely approaching my teens...only Marvell books I've bought since were Nextwave.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=35754#Comment_357542008-04-02T06:15:12-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Insect Kinghttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1357
And warrenellis spoke thusly:
Given the trouble they seem to be having keeping the TPB version in print, I rather think as Absolute would be discontinuation-by-default. Better they keep their focus ...
And warrenellis spoke thusly:Given the trouble they seem to be having keeping the TPB version in print, I rather think as Absolute would be discontinuation-by-default. Better they keep their focus on keeping the TPB version around.

I wish DC and Marvel would do an Avatar and release HCs and TPs simultaneously. The TPs are coming out sometimes a year and a half later than the annoyingly overpriced HC releases (or longer if you count in Marvel Zombies 1). Even HCs piss me off to such a point when the TP s released I've lost all interest in the title.

Cheers,

Chris.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=36290#Comment_362902008-04-03T16:39:19-05:002008-04-03T16:39:41-05:00BClayMoorehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=127
There was nothing else happening that would explain a seriously unusual spike (which has pretty much stayed there). And, later, the fanmail confirmed it.
They were both science fiction works. I ...
There was nothing else happening that would explain a seriously unusual spike (which has pretty much stayed there). And, later, the fanmail confirmed it.

They were both science fiction works. I wrote UFF as YA sf, and I think that's the correlation -- I think TRANSMET was the first "grown-up" sf graphic novel for a lot of them.

I find that remarkable, if true.

It's the kind of thing you always hope happens, but most evidence suggests it rarely does.

I suppose the s/f correlation makes some sense.

-BCM]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=36310#Comment_363102008-04-03T18:18:53-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00warrenellishttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2
It's the kind of thing you always hope happens, but most evidence suggests it rarely does.
It freaked me out a little, too. Marvel ended up making some calls and doing a bit of demographics on my ...
It's the kind of thing you always hope happens, but most evidence suggests it rarely does.

It freaked me out a little, too. Marvel ended up making some calls and doing a bit of demographics on my UFF run. I lucked into a sf-loving YA audience who were just on the cusp of moving on to something else -- as someone put it to me, "the smartest kids in the store".]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=37949#Comment_379492008-04-08T17:51:38-05:002008-04-08T17:52:15-05:00SullyEliothttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1883
I'm in that UFF-crowd, sort of. Someone got me back into comics by reading USM and UFF, and I rather enjoyed Warren's run, but I don't think I pursued him avidly until someone said "you know ...
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=37988#Comment_379882008-04-08T20:21:37-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Brad McLoughlinhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=620
I came in through Thunderbolts and Newuniversal, basically having gotten back into comics with Civil War. Despite that event giving me some hopes that mainstream comics could be done well, my ...
I have to say, Extremis is still one of my favourite comic arcs, mainstream or not.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=37994#Comment_379942008-04-08T20:44:38-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Spiraltwisthttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=426
@SullyEliot
Unfortunately, TOKYO STORM WARNING is no longer in print. However, you LCS should be able to easily order CRECY for you.
Unfortunately, TOKYO STORM WARNING is no longer in print. However, you LCS should be able to easily order CRECY for you.]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=37998#Comment_379982008-04-08T20:47:04-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Gilgurthhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2984
I quit comics in 95, just out of college. Couldn't afford em, and most of my books (X books mainly) had started sucking badly. Spawn was showing no signs of getting to the point (I think it took 10 ...
Two friends at work telling me of this comic where the FF were the badguys, all the things they've discovered, invented and found, but they couldn't put 15 minutes in to cure cancer or autism... hounding me to read them. Oldschool ties to ever work of sci fi and fantasy from doyle, wells, lovecraft and on through the early movies all the way to the golden and silver ages forward. Oddly, I gotta say thanks, man.

Looking forward to AXM, Planetary 27, more stuff like Dr. Sleepless, Crecy and where you're going with Gravel. Luckily, in NY, I can get my hands on indy stuff if I know when it's comming out. Still took like a month to get Crecy. My friend got me the first 3 TPB of Transmet for xmas. Wait, was I supposed to ask a question?

Um, Despite france having the All Black's #, do you think they really are the best side in the world, or did SA's weaker bracket have nothing to do with them winning the cup? ;)]]>
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=38020#Comment_380202008-04-08T23:42:16-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00SullyEliothttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1883
Spiral, found TSW on Amazon tied with some other book I'd never even heard of. My shop sucks at getting me the books I ask for; I've waited two months for Scud 21. Now I must make the decision to ...
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=38468#Comment_384682008-04-09T22:39:25-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00ralf.haringhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=114
TOKYO STORM WARNING was published with another Ellis mini, RED. The same for RELOAD and MEK.
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=38473#Comment_384732008-04-09T22:46:56-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00joe.distorthttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1173
ooooooh, red is the genius. love it so much.
On Leaving THUNDERBOLTShttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1606&Focus=38485#Comment_384852008-04-09T23:46:11-05:002015-08-02T15:41:38-05:00Mark Rhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=198
Just re-read Red. Love that book.
I'm the monster...
I'm the monster...]]>