My name is Jon Dyer, I am 32 years old and come from Wellington, New Zealand.

I been practising various types of martial arts for the past 18 years or so and from the age of 18 have more or less concentrated on Chinese Kung Fu (Shaolin, Xing Yi Quan, Xin Yi Liu He Quan, etc).

I noticed on one of the threads there was a discussion on dan tian (tanden/ hara) and seen that someone had linked to my site (www,daixinyi.blogspot.com) so decided to come here and talk about some of our training methods and compare them with methods in Aikido/ Aikijiujitsu.

I am no expert in any shape or form, but are very passionate about the arts and like to share as much information as I have with people who are generally interested.

Metta

Jon Dyer aka Dai Zhi Qiang

jss

06-23-2009, 03:21 AM

Hi Jon,

Nice of you to stop by on this forum. Hopefully we can learn something from each other. So to get started, the first two questions I could think of:
1) What's according to you the function of the dantien? How do you train it?
2) What do you have people do in their first class of Dai Shi Xin Yi Quan?

oisin bourke

06-23-2009, 09:20 AM

Hi Jon,

1) What's according to you the function of the dantien? How do you train it?
2) What do you have people do in their first class of Dai Shi Xin Yi Quan?

Straight in with the Irimi! You don't practice Ono Ha Itto Ryu by any chance?:D

Hello Jon,

It was probably my post you came across.

I was especially interested in the quote below.

Iíve never had the pleasure to see your art in the flesh, as it were, and my knowledge of Chinese arts is limited, so my image is of a very compact, intense form of hsing I?

I included two video clips below of prominent aikido and aikijujutsu practicioners below.

There are lots of others worth commenting on, not least of the founder of Aikido himself, but, I couldnít find an appropriate clip. Iím sure others will chime in.

Anyway, Iíd love to hear your reading of the above practicioners (and any others) from the point of view of the use of the dan tien within your art.

horikawa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnX7awEhf9U

shioda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CCYfOJiQJs

"YLC) The thing is every style has their own specific way of doing things and not all are compatible with each other. I have only trained in Dai style solely since I was around 20 years old, so I only know Dai style. What I do know though, that my art has our own unique body requirements, that I believe other styles do not have.

For example say you practice Dai style and Taiji, they have completely different requirements. Dai style has a small, compact and narrow frame and ever strike has a contraction, followed by a expansion, this is achieved by rolling the dan tian on a vertical axis. Taiji does not have this, so practicing Taiji will damage your Dai style and vice versa. I don't believe it is good to try and practice many arts at the same time, to me my art gives me all I need and more. You got to ask yourself, do you really want to master your art, or do you want to be somewhat of a collector?

(JB) So you don't think it is a bad idea to practice shuai jiao or bjj while you are learning Dai?

YLC) To me solely concentrating on Dai is best, but I don't really mind people training in a grappling style as long as they train technique over brute force. The reason I don't mind is as long as they don't train striking from other arts, otherwise they will never progress as other art's don't use dan tian like we do."

Best regards,

Oisin Bourke

akiy

06-23-2009, 09:56 AM

Hi Jon,

Welcome to AikiWeb and thank you for your introduction.

-- Jun

Dai Zhi Qiang

07-02-2009, 09:58 PM

Hi Jon,

Nice of you to stop by on this forum. Hopefully we can learn something from each other. So to get started, the first two questions I could think of:
1) What's according to you the function of the dantien? How do you train it?
2) What do you have people do in their first class of Dai Shi Xin Yi Quan?

Hi Joep,

1) Training the dan tian is of course the primary importance to a Dai Xin Yi Quan practitioner and if focused on throughout ones life. Even in advanced levels, they still spend a lot of time on this exercise.

This reminds me of a story I was told of someone my teacher remembers from the past, in which a man (do not have the name on hand at the mo) who was a cripple (crippled in the sense that I guess he could not walk properly) focused entirely on this exercise and in later years (after practising it for 40 odd years) used to be able to bounce out people from all different types of backgrounds entirely due to his skill with his dan tian. This is confirmed also with my own experience with my teacher as he can perform the same move on me as I do on him and have completely different results.

In my own practice I spend some time standing (from 10 to 20 or so minutes) and then contract and expand slowly from 50 to 100 repetitions. Every 5th repetition I deliver lei/shen (thunder/lightening) which is a special sound which is delivered when you kuai jin (fast power emission).

Dai Xin Yi Quan is rou/gang (hard/soft) with an emphasis on rou jin (soft power) to relax the body/mind and integrate the synergy (whole body power), after some skill is achieved in the soft method, then you learn to fa jin (power delivery). When you deliver you are also supposed to release some power through the voice (not from the voice, but from the internal power). This sound also changes with your practice, starting with a rough sound of "Ha" and then becoming more refined (I do not know how to describe the other sounds to you, sorry).

After doing this for a while I have noticed some interesting phenomena which naturally happens, the dan tian can go off like a gun, meaning when you release it, it is very sudden and the sound has a different quality to it. I noticed this happens when I practice squatting monkey as slow as I can and that further confirms the strict importance of soft power over hard power. It is like you are burnt with a cigarette when this happens.

2. As for what you may learn in a first training session I can only speak from my own line as that is what I have experience in. What you get taught can vary, but for sure you are going to get taught these.

D. Dan Tui Zhuang (single leg posture). Looks like squatting monkey, but on one leg. Very difficult to do properly.

This is already enough, but I know my teacher makes exceptions like for example if foreigners go and visit him due to them not being able to see him again for a while, he will teach a lot more than this, but usually over a week or 10 day period.

Those above moves need to be practised every day for a long time (I cannot say how long) before you learn footwork and the Wu Xing Quan (5 elements). I believe it is best to be taught few moves correctly and master them than try and take on too much and especially try and learn certain moves before building a foundation. If you do not learn the basics properly, you are laying a recipe for disaster.