My goal is to inform potential law school students and applicants of the ugly realities of attending law school. DO NOT ATTEND UNLESS: (1) YOU GET INTO A TOP 8 LAW SCHOOL ON SCHOLARSHIP; (2) YOU GET A FULL-TUITION SCHOLARSHIP TO ATTEND; (3) YOU HAVE EMPLOYMENT AS AN ATTORNEY SECURED THROUGH A RELATIVE OR CLOSE FRIEND; OR (4) YOU ARE FULLY AWARE BEFOREHAND THAT YOUR HUGE INVESTMENT IN TIME, ENERGY, AND MONEY DOES NOT, IN ANY WAY, GUARANTEE A JOB AS AN ATTORNEY OR IN THE LEGAL INDUSTRY.

Wednesday, April 20, 2016

Meeting Expectations: February 2016 Florida Bar Passage Results Sink Further Down the Toilet

Dropping Numbers: On February 11, 2016, the Tallahassee Democrat published a Byron Dobson article that was entitled “Florida Bar results in: 58 percent pass.” Take a look at this opening:

“Fifty-eight percent of those persons taking the Florida Bar for the first time in February passed, according to the Florida Supreme Court.

This compares to the 69 percent passing the bar exam last July.

Of the 21 Florida State University College of Law graduates taking the February exam, 15 passed, or 71.4 percent. Thirteen of the 23 graduates of the Florida A&M University College of Law passed, or 56.5 percent, according to the Florida Board of Bar Examiners report.

“We are disappointed that we are only in third place on this most recent test,” said Don Weidner, dean of the FSU College of Law. “However, we are optimistic going forward because of new programs we have put in place.”

Last July, 151 of the 188 FSU law grads passed, or 80.3 percent. The FAMU law school’s passing percentage was 68 percent, with 57 of the 84 graduates taking the exam.

Felecia Epps, newly appointed dean of the FAMU College of Law, was upbeat over the school's pass percentage.

"Being ranked fourth in the state for the first time ever is phenomenal,” Epps said. “We remain dedicated to continuing our progress toward improving the passage rate for our first-time takers.”

A news release from the college said the overall February Florida bar exam results reflect an expected “downward trend” across the country[.]” [Emphasis mine]

Other Coverage: Joe Patrice posted an ATL entry labeled “Floria Bar Results Are In…And Most Of The Law Schools Did Terribly.” Here is the full text below:

“The February bar exam is never going to boast the best passage figures. Obviously most of those taking the test are on their second go-around and probably failed for a reason the first time. Still, the figures coming out of the February administration of the Florida bar exam reveal some serious problems for the law schools so desperately hoping to boost those “full-time, long-term” legal employment numbers. UPDATE: A tipster points out that I missed a key line from the bar examiner letter — the following stats only apply to first-time takers, meaning these schools can’t even use the “well they already messed up once” excuse.

In a letter dated this morning, the Florida Bar Examiners released a breakdown of their February test results. The verdict, as always, is that Florida Coastal is not a sound investment. But the problems go beyond that notorious for-profit law school.

Only 32.7 percent of Florida Coastal grads taking the test managed to pass, placing them just a smidge behind of Barry University’s 35.9 percent. Those two also boasted the most students taking the test, which isn’t a particularly good sign. But University of Florida and University of Miami both hovering just north of 50 percent?!? I know they have relatively few students in the February pool, but those are Ave Maria numbers (52.9 percent).

Meanwhile, hats off to Nova Southeastern and Florida State, who got 75 percent and 71.4 percent of their respective students over the hump. And a round of applause for Florida International with 84.6 percent passage. If that sounds odd, then you haven’t been paying attention because FIU dominated the summer exam too. Maybe it’s time everyone else start copying their prep course, eh?” [Emphasis mine]

While Oklahoma has decided – by one of those compelling 5-4 votes of the state “supreme” court – to dumb down their state bar exam, it appears that certain Florida ABA-accredited cesspools have chose to have the curriculum focus on passing the test. Who the hell wouldn’t want to shell out serious sums of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for a three year bar review study course?!?! I can see the sales pitch now: “Not only can you gain admission to an actual law school with a 147 LSAT score, and a degree in Women’s Studies, but we’ll train your ass to pass the bar exam! Call in the next 30 minutes, and we’ll toss in a set of steak knives!”

Conclusion: In the final analysis, Florida ishome to 11 ABA-accredited trash pits. According tothe most recent rankings published by US “News” & World Report, the Univer$ity of Florida is rated 48th “best,” while FSU has the 50th “greatest” law school in the entire damn country. Miami comes in at 60th place and Florida InTTTernaTTTional Univer$iTTTy and $TTTeTTT$on share the 103rd spot. The following six commodes are fourth tier excrement piles: Ave Maria, Barry “University,” Florida A&M, Florida Coa$TTTTal Sewer of Law, Nova Southeastern, and $TTTT. TTTThoma$ Univer$iTTTTy. Actually, Thomas M. Cooley Law Sewer has a branch in Riverview, Florida. However, the main campus is in Michigan.

I understand that Tavis/Felicia Epps is happy that her cesspit achieved the splendid goal of 4th best bar passage rate in the state – for February 2016. Of course, this is also due to smaller sample size. Third Tier Sewer Florida InTTTernaTTTional obtained the highest rate of any school on that exam, whereas Fourth Tier Trash Pit Nova SouTTTThea$TTTTern had the 2nd best outcome. The fact remains that job prospects for graduates of these dung heaps remain bleak. Remember, bar passage does not necessarily mean employment. You still need to overcome the stench of a TTT law degree, when applying to jobs. Legal employers know which schools have a garbage reputation, and they don’t want to hire stinky JDs from the Dumpster. Good luck, Stupid.

Look, no one is stupid. It's a pity that a graduate from a tier 4 law school is treated like a low class lawyer compared to a tier 1 school.

They both have the same degree. Even if either took the bar multiple times, all that counts in the end is that they never give up.

Thankfully most of the general public will never ask, where you went to law school, they just care about results.

However due to the bad press over the years, this is likely to change, but your lucky. Because legal education and lawyers in general, in a way have become a commodity and could be bought and sold for the lowest price possible.That's what consumers will really care about.

true story:

**disclaimer - please do not try this at home**

I had a misdemeanor charge. Going rate for lawyer retainer in my town - misdemeanors $1500 / Felony $2500.

So I talked to the first lawyer and she wanted to charge $1500 in order to take my case.

I went to a second lawyer and he wanted to only charge me $500 to see if he could settle it with the prosecutor.

I actually went online, printed a copy of the legal statute and went directly to the prosecutor myself and presented the law, how the situation unfolded, and the argument on why this charge was unjust and she dismissed the charge.(full disclosure, at the time I did have one year of law school under my belt).

I did not care which law school either of the previous lawyers went to, I was just after the best results for the cheapest price. In the end the route I took, was Risky... yes, but it worked.

Point being in order to thrive and not just get in the new legal world:

- Hustle Hard- Throw out the old rules (for legal careers out side of big / mid law)- Treat Law as business (revenue - operating cost = P/L (this is important because this will help you decide which factors to focus on, tweak, reinvent if you want to win). - Your selling legal services to the public... lets get creative- Lastly this shift has happened in other career field like IT (offshoring / outsourcing) take a nugget of knowledge from those guys and adapt. The legal field is facing the same challenges. Guys from India are starting to take some of your legal work, and automation is changing Doc review as we know it.

But back to the point. The bar passage rate dropping not a bad thing.. this falls under the changing times, don't be discouraged.

You won't be hearing from Team AAMPLE anytime soon-he's too busy singing the praises of FAMU and its fabulous 56.5% pass rate for first time takers(who knows how terrible the numbers are for the multiple times Bar takers). Also-b/c you're Team AAMPLE-you've just decided to desert the team. Your post is the most amazing amalgam of stupidity and sophistry I've read in a long time. "Double down" on the bar review? What wonderful advice, replete with a Freudian slip-one only "doubles down" in gambling-so you agree attending law school at these TTTs is a gamble-and if you flunk the bar, like 45% of FAMU test takers, you've just busted flat out-150K debt, no career.No need for you to post again-you've just proven Nando's point-attending these TTTs is a gamble, and you apparently agree.

"Thankfully most of the general public will never ask, where you went to law school, they just care about results."

You must be a public defender. In any other context this statement is completely false. Welcome to law--where people care about stuff like that. If you don't like it, too bad. Your delusion won't change a profession.

Have you ever heard the adage "You can't shine a turd"? That's what AAMPLE schools are. They are worthless debt-pits. The debt they cause is the modern day equivalent of indentured servitude. AAMPLE is the epitome of a scam.

No matter how hard you "hustle," FAMU (n.b.: sure, FAMU doesn't use AAMPLE, but this idiotic troll isn't literate enough to have figured this out, so I'll play his game) will always be a shithole. Employers know the idiots stupid enough to go to FAMU (and especially those too stupid to transfer out) are bottom-of-the-barrel applicants for legal employment. These are the shittiest of the shitty applicants. They are neither good at law, nor good with financial calculations, and generally prone to narcissism (since there's no basis for going to the cesspit other than unwarranted pride of this "JD").

In 2014 and 2015, 96% of 1st time takers from US and Canadian MD schools passed the USMLE step 1 exam. 93% of 1st time takers passed from US DO schools. And here is the kicker, 78% of 1st time takers passed from non US and Canadian schools, like the Caribbean MD schools. But in the legal "profession" it is acceptable to have a 58% bar passage rate. Someone should ask the pigs at these law schools, how their grads will start their lucrative practice in Nebraska when they can't even pass the bar.

WHO GIVES A SHIT what "place" your school ends up in relative to other schools in the state? I see this all the time in states with a whole bunch of middling law schools (e.g., Florida, Ohio, Texas). Shouldn't there be a threshold for what is a "good" result and what is a "bad" result? Is FIU proud to be #1 on the February exam, even though 15% of their grads failed? What if, by some miracle, every school had above a 90% pass rate? Would the #11 school be ashamed to be in "last place" despite what objectively appears to be a good result?

Florida has a ton of law schools like California and New York do. The difference is, those two states have some good schools. None of the toilets in Florida are worth touching with a ten-foot pole. I'd hate to be hiring a lawyer down in Florida.

On April 12, 2016, JDU accountholder "massivemissive" started a thread that was labeled "Florida bar first-time pass rates, February test." Look at his original post, along with the responses below:

massivemissive (Apr 12, 2016 - 1:15 pm)

2013: 80.2% 2014: 72.9% 2015: 64.3% 2016: 58.4%

https://twitter.com/derektmuller/status/719720291060948993

And even if you pass, you have a 50% of getting a job.________________________________________

roadkingrider (Apr 13, 2016 - 9:38 am)

That is a terrible drop in the numbers, must be some real idiots attending law skool.________________________________________

chicagojoe (Apr 13, 2016 - 10:04 am)

Probably a bit higher than 50% with the competition getting vaporized by the bar exam.________________________________________

ala6 (Apr 13, 2016 - 12:18 pm)

Are they cranking up difficulty alongside of declining admissions standards or is it purely less qualified students?________________________________________

soupcansham (Apr 13, 2016 - 2:58 pm)

They could change the essays or the requirements to pass, but the MBE is standardized year-to-year.

As you can see from this JDU discussion, the pass rates on the February bar passage rates have plummeted from 2013-2016. This correlates perfectly to when ABA-accredited trash pits first started admitting a higher percentage of morons and waterheads.

FAMU law school uses an alternative admissions program called LEAP.For the uninformed poster above:AAMPLE = LEAP (both alternative admit programs).

The one thing people are missing is that certain law students would have been successful in any profession they chose. Tier 4 or not.

It is an unfair misconception that tier 4 law schools are inferior. Plenty of successful lawyers have traveled down that path.

FAMU highlights:

- Created with the express purpose to increase minority lawyers.- Side steps LSAT with the LEAP program- Low cost. Tuition is the best bang for your buck(under $10,000 a year for tuition) True value.- Provides an environment supporting success for minorities.

Getting jobs after graduating. This is a nation wide problem for ALL Law schools. The legal field is shifting, and not in a good direction.

Eugene Young from "The Practice" summed it up the best "some would like the legal profession to remain a good ol boys club, but a new day has arrived".

Don't let people discourage your dreams of becoming a lawyer. Minimize your student loan debt, put in the hard work, network smartly, and you too can become a card carrying member of the legal field.

Dream big. Shoot for the moon, and if you miss on the way down, grab a star. You can do it. And when times get tough (as frequently happens in life --remember after every cloudy day comes the sunshine.

Sooooo much nonsense...Specifically:1. "$10,000 a year for tuition"...WRONGin-state $14,131.66-which is 41% higher than $10,000/year...and for out of state, the tuition is $34,000/year(you do the math; I went to law school for a reason). Per FAMU's own numbers, other "educational costs"-room/board, etc-runs another $27,040.00/year. And that doesn't include the cost of wasting three years of your life. Of course, these costs don't apply if you're still living in your parents' basement. So at a minimum, costs of over $41,000/yr.2. Eugene Young is a FICTIONAL CHARACTER who lives on only in re-runs of a TV show which went off the air over a decade ago. Please, get off the couch and learn something. Why don't you quote Steve Harris, the actor who played your favorite non-real lawyer? He's at least a real person. Not sure what his views on the law school scam are, however.3. Pretty hard to "shoot for the moon" or "grab a star" when you flunk the bar(45% flunk rate) and have a ton of debt-although there is no limit to how far you can fall. And you get no "bang for your buck" when you flunk the bar b/c you're not a lawyer.

You sound like a Little League coach addressing a bunch of third-graders. This isn't fantasy land-it's the real world and lives are being destroyed by the financial burden of a useless law degree. The problem isn't where people went to school-it's that there's too much law school debt, too many lawyers, and not enough jobs.So please, volunteer as a baseball coach for grade schoolers, and just go away. Anyone who listens to your advice regarding law school could get themselves into terrible financial trouble. They don't give participation trophies for going to law school-all you're guaranteed is a mountain of debt.

First, "It is an unfair misconception that tier 4 law schools are inferior." Only 31% of FAMU grads got lawyer jobs in 2014 (including solos), whereas 60% of grads from all schools got lawyer jobs.

If that doesn't clearly indicate the FAMU is inferior to other schools, I'm not sure what else could.

Next, "Created with the express purpose toincrease minority lawyers." Ok, so what? Who cares? Assuming there's any inherent value to this, FAMU isn't doing the job anyway. Its 31% lawyer placement rate is pathetic. However, as 5:05 noted, FAMU is creating massive debt while pretending to be low-cost.

Kudos to the race-baiters for creating a victim class of debt-laden grads from the very same sheeple who presumably want to combat the financial exploitation of minorities. The irony is overwhelming. Quite an efficient little system they've got going on there.

Then, "Side steps LSAT with the LEAP program" which should mean that GPAs will be comparable to other schools. After all, you're basically arguing "FAMU has a shitty LSAT because it doesn't care, not because it has an open admissions policy."

This argument is flawed. FAMU's median entrant GPAs are in the bottom 10% of schools nation-wide. And they've fallen non-stop for 5 years straight. They're not "sidestepping" they're effectively using an open admission system and "rejecting" these applicants.

This is an EXTREMELY deceptive practice. FAMU claims 45% rejection rate, but its LSAT is 29th percentile. Assuming FAMU does what all schools do (i.e. reject low scorers & accept high scorers), these numbers don't add up. Self-selection can't reconcile these factors.

Finally, the "Dream big. . ." drivel. Anyone with half a brain knows that FAMU Shill is an idiot on too many levels to address in a concise post. But I'd like to point out that this is a new low--even for FAMU.

This is a sales pitch based purely on consumer emotion. Apparently the Disney sales method is leeching into the local community. But that sort of unfounded optimism is not how the real world works; law schools should be ashamed to appeal to naive consumers like this. This sort of crap goes beyond puffery of the school itself - this sales pitch distracts consumers from the point of going to law school in the first place.

On another note, does anyone know how to do an open records request under Florida law? I would be willing to bet my life savings that LEAP admits are "rejected" for ABA 509 purposes, though the applicants are actually admitted.

"Eugene Young from "The Practice" summed it up the best "some would like the legal profession to remain a good ol boys club, but a new day has arrived"."

As I suspected, 6:31's whole law experience is based on what he sees on TV. No specifics whatsoever on his particular practice expertise or area of concentration and how to enter it. Just noise. Kids, whatever you do, don't listen to this guy, he knows not of the practice of law!

Wow. When I graduated in the early 90s, my school was freaking out when the pass rate dipped to 91%. Wow, we have come along way....when 75% is somewhat ok today. Second time test takers were seen as damaged goods in my day.

On February 11, 2016, Jim Rosica posted a blog entry entitled “Florida Bar Passage Rate at 58% for February Exam.” By the way, take a look at the mooks taking the test at the Tampa Convention Center.

“About six out of 10 first-time test takers passed the February sitting of the Florida Bar Exam, according to a Monday press release.

The Florida Board of Bar Examiners, which develops and administers the twice-yearly exam, reported that 485 of 830 first-timers passed, or 58.4 percent.

Florida International University College of Law graduates had the best passage rate, with 22 of 26 takers passing, or 84.6 percent, followed by Nova Southeastern University College of Law, with 24 of 32 passing, or 75 percent.

At the bottom was Florida Coastal School of Law, with 16 passing out of 49 takers, or 32.7 percent.

Altogether, 1,967 people sat for the exam, including those who already have taken the exam one or more times. Of those, 546 passed and are eligible to be sworn in as members of The Florida Bar.

The test was given on Feb. 23-24 in Tampa. Like many state bar exams, it is given twice a year, in late February and late July. Statistics for previous exams are here.

More law students take the exam in the summer, immediately after graduation and bar review. For July 2015, for example, the first-time passage rate was 68.9 percent, with 1,851 out of 2,687 passing. A smaller number, including those who fail the summer exam, take the bar in the winter.

Why in the hell is the ABA not placing schools with such putrid bar passage rates on probation? Of course, we know the answer. It is ALL about the money! In a just world, several Florida commodes would be shuttered – and be converted into petting zoos, shopping centers, and movie theaters.

1,987 people sat for the Florida Bar. I guess there is a shortage of lawyers there? You guys are welcome to come to Illinois, where only 92,000 lawyers are registered. I can hook you up with a gig getting a hundred dollars blowing an entire morning in traffic court..... Or you can go to California and sit with my law buddy at the In N Out Burger cause he has tons of legal work too!

“Here is the full February 2016 listing from the Board of Bar Examiners:

• Florida International University College of Law, 22 of 26, 84.6 percent

• Nova Southeastern University College of Law, 24 of 32, 75 percent

• Takers who are already admitted to practice law in another jurisdiction, 209 of 286, 73.1 percent

• Florida State University College of Law, 15 of 21, 71.4 percent

• Florida A&M University College of Law, 13 of 23, 56.5 percent

• University of Florida College of Law, 9 of 16, 56.3 percent

• Stetson University College of Law, 24 of 45, 53.3 percent

• University of Miami School of Law, 17 of 32, 53.1 percent

• Ave Maria School of Law, 9 of 17, 52.9 percent

• Takers from law schools outside Florida, 93 of 193, 48.2 percent

• St. Thomas University College of Law, 11 of 26, 42.3 percent

• Barry University School of Law, 23 of 64, 35.9 percent

• Florida Coastal School of Law, 16 of 49, 32.7 percent”

Yes, that is super impressive, huh?!?! Then again, maybe overall that is a good result, when you consider that the best ranked diploma mill is 48th “best” in the nation, and that eight of the 11 ABA cesspits in the state are either third tier or fourth tier.

Children are incapable of listening. Their parents think for them, and being a lawyer is almost as good as being a doctor! Damn, what an accomplishment, nearly a doctor.

Well, lawyering is not doctoring. My oldest son's income, when he gets out of his residency will be 3 to 4 times my current income. I am 63. He is 30. I am a solo lawyer. He is a PHYSICIAN!!!

I am happy for him. He has done a great job.

BUT, lawyering is a trash "profession" and doctoring is a real living. A huge living. At 63, I borrow to buy a used car. I now have more debt than I ever had in my entire life. Student loans for my kids.

The BIG issue is that law schools are still accepting students for Fall 2016. This means that the schools will absorb another school year cycle (regardless of financial losses), or might shut down in "mid-stream" and send away students that have been accepted for Fall, 2016.

My income tax return, 2015--30% of my gross revenue went for health costs, insurance, co-pays, deductibles. My family is healthy. America is toast. Cooked. Just ruined. I will quit practicing in a year or 2. May God have mercy on anyone younger than 60 who is a lawyer.

1. I have always "shared my story" being my belief that I should place upon the record tangible, palpable facts that 0L's and upwards might best be able to relate to their situations. None of this is about my story except as it relates to others about to embark on "their story."

2. "the same fellow" Well, maybe a fellow or not a fellow-I don't believe I have left any footprint which might identify my gender. That would only cut down the range of possibilities in half. Frankly, I don't care if my identity is discovered. But my identity is really unimportant. My BELIEFS are important.

3. "Went by the name'" Well, I STILL DO, when the message I have is in the spirit of Cincinnatus. (Look up his spirit.) Sometimes I use 38 year solo to emphasize that I have a long practice history and am not a newbie to the practice. I use "Cincinnatus" when I have a message of revolution, not tied to 38 years of experience, but I am unwilling to take any claim for victory.

3. I have posted many times as "Anonymous" before "a whole back." I have posted many times in the last 30 days.

So, you have successfully tied 38 year solo to Cincinnatus. Good work. You will make a fine lawyer, hopefully you are an engineer where you can make a living, and if a lawyer, you at least have the perception to do well

Of course, anyone in the world can post under my pseudonyms without my consent.

Objective

This blog is maintained by a graduate of a third tier law school. My goal is to educate prospective law students about the perils of obtaining a legal education. There are many pitfalls - the debt load, the oversupply of lawyers, the fact that there are not enough legal jobs to satisfy nearly 45,000 annual law graduates, and the reality that the majority of law school graduates will end up with low-paying jobs upon completion of their "legal studies."