Stubbing my toe in my boots

Hi, I have (what I believe to be) a quite uncommon issue in regards to ski boots.

My feet grow by half a size when I go from applying zero pressure to applying full pressure on them. This means when I do a jump when skiing when in the air I am applying zero pressure so my foot shrinks in size, however when I land I apply full pressure, meaning my foot instantly grows half a size - resulting in me stubbing my toe on the ends of my boots. By the end of the ski holiday my big toes are black and blue.

Does anyone have any advice on what I can do to soften the landing blows, other than ending my jumping days?

@gil3000, as a resident cynic I find the idea preposterous that your foot changes size in a fraction of a second. Far more likely that you don't have your ankle clips done up tightly enough so that your heel is held firmly in the back of the boot. When you land in an unbalanced position, your foot slides forward in the boot momentarily with the added force of landing. Your big toe absorbs the impact because it's the first point of contact.

I'd put a whole night's bar bill on a wager that that your boots are too big/loose.

@gil3000, as a resident cynic I find the idea preposterous that your foot changes size in a fraction of a second. Far more likely that you don't have your ankle clips done up tightly enough so that your heel is held firmly in the back of the boot. When you land in an unbalanced position, your foot slides forward in the boot momentarily with the added force of landing. Your big toe absorbs the impact because it's the first point of contact.

I'd put a whole night's bar bill on a wager that that your boots are too big/loose.

It genuinely does, something I actually wasn't aware of until I had my boots fitted and the individual fitting these boots showed me how much they changed and by what size. It's as if my foot spreads out as soon as I plant it on the floor. I've tried numerous boots over time, had insoles fitted and moulded to my foot, had my boots fitted by professionals, had my boots adjusted from loosest to tightest and everywhere in between, ensured I'm landing balanced etc. etc. yet the problem persists. It isn't such an issue when in the air for a fraction of a second, more 1 second+. It's legitimately any time I'm in the air for this amount of time, regardless of how well/poorly I land

After all it is free

After all it is free

How do you cope when you ski with all weight on one ski? As above, I can't imagine the foot changing size when constrained inside a ski boot.

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endoman wrote:

How do you cope when you ski with all weight on one ski? As above, I can't imagine the foot changing size when constrained inside a ski boot.

It's fine, feel no pain. It's the fact when applying pressure/weight is distributed evenly the ski boot fits well, once I remove pressure from one of the feet the boot becomes too loose.

Ski the Net with snowHeads

Ski the Net with snowHeads

I have some sympathy as my feet seem determined to change shape depending on pressure ( though not jumping), causing ongoing ski boot issues for many years and different boots. But mine don't do anything like hours, fortunately.
However, I would have thought that in your case a good bootfitter should be able to find out what's happening and at least choose and/or modify a boot for you to minimise the issue.
Perhaps an issue with volume at the forefoot or ankle? Maybe you have either a very flexible or very collapsible arch (or some similar foot bit - complicated things, feet) and your insoles aren't fully supporting them?
Hope you get it sorted.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Yeah I have a very high arch which I believe to be the main cause of this. In turn this has meant the amount of ski boots I've been able to choose from have been somewhat limited given I need a boot that has plenty of space for my high arches otherwise I experience pain with just the boots on, regardless of what I'm doing

And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.

And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.

@gil3000, so get a custom insole made specifically for a high arch to stop your foot spreading. A good boot fitter can also lengthen the toe box so that your big toe doesn't touch the end under any circumstances. If the other boot dimensions are correct and tight, it'll make no difference to your normal skiing.

So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much

So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much

Raceplate wrote:

@gil3000, so get a custom insole made specifically for a high arch to stop your foot spreading. A good boot fitter can also lengthen the toe box so that your big toe doesn't touch the end under any circumstances. If the other boot dimensions are correct and tight, it'll make no difference to your normal skiing.

Unfortunately that's what I did and the same issue persisted (this was pre season last year). Perhaps have another one fitted?

You know it makes sense.

You know it makes sense.

I still think your boots are too big/wrong shape. But putting that aside, there are boot fitters and boot fitters. How was your last insole made? Standing on it or seated whilst the fitter moulded it to your foot? The latter is correct for a high quality issue specific one.

I had boot fitting issues for 25 years. I've used Salomon custom shell for several years which has helped a lot but the latest version coupled with zipfit liners has made a big difference. I have a quality custom made insole for a semi high arch, slightly twisted, to stop my wide foot spreading.

If your shells are correct, then zipfits and a well made insole will almost certainly stop the problem IMO.

What's your level of skiing experience? It's pretty common for the less experienced to have their boots too big/loose because they simply don't know any different.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Raceplate wrote:

I still think your boots are too big/wrong shape. But putting that aside, there are boot fitters and boot fitters. How was your last insole made? Standing on it or seated whilst the fitter moulded it to your foot? The latter is correct for a high quality issue specific one.

I had boot fitting issues for 25 years. I've used Salomon custom shell for several years which has helped a lot but the latest version coupled with zipfit liners has made a big difference. I have a quality custom made insole for a semi high arch, slightly twisted, to stop my wide foot spreading.

If your shells are correct, then zipfits and a well made insole will almost certainly stop the problem IMO.

What's your level of skiing experience? It's pretty common for the less experienced to have their boots too big/loose because they simply don't know any different.

If I remember correctly I was stood up whilst it was moulded (had it done at Ellis Brigham). The guy seemed to know his stuff and I had no qualms with his knowledge, doesn't mean my read wasn't slightly off though.

Skied for 15 years+ (I'm 27 y/o), ski blacks comfortably. This issue seems to only have risen in the past 4/5 years despite three different pairs of boots - the past two have been fitted. One thing that certainly hasn't helped is the fact I've had gout off and on for the past 3 years in one of my feet - doubt this has an effect, just thought it may be worth mentioning.

Poster: A snowHead

Poster: A snowHead

Gout won't make your toes black. It'll make a specific part of your foot swell or if left untreated the whole foot. You won't be skiing if you have a proper gout attack. I've seen a young (at that time, undiagnosed) skier with gout and he was crying with pain on the hill. I also suffer occasionally but it's mostly due to dehydration from living in the ME and too much booze. I would only ski with it on industrial anti-inflammatories and a camelbak.

I wouldn't rate EB at all. Suggest you go and see the grumpy Scotsman in Bicester.

When he tells you your boots are too big, you owe me a night out

Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person

Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person

Raceplate wrote:

Gout won't make your toes black. It'll make a specific part of your foot swell or if left untreated the whole foot. You won't be skiing if you have a proper gout attack. I've seen a young (at that time, undiagnosed) skier with gout and he was crying with pain on the hill. I also suffer occasionally but it's mostly due to dehydration from living in the ME and too much booze. I would only ski with it on industrial anti-inflammatories and a camelbak.

I wouldn't rate EB at all. Suggest you go and see the grumpy Scotsman in Bicester.

When he tells you your boots are too big, you owe me a night out

Can I have a link to the grumpy man in question, or somewhere you would recommend?

Had a number of gout attacks (only one when skiing thankfully), but it has now effected the sensitivity of my joints, obviously ski boots are unpleasant to put on at the best of times - currently tee total whilst trying to put a stop completely to gout.

Based in the midlands but willing to travel wherever providing it sorts this out. If it does indeed sort it out the Vimto's will be on me!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

At your age, the gout is probably genetic rather than lifestyle related. You have my sympathy. FWIW, I have a pet theory that gout is related to natural salt intake - lower (natural) salt = higher risk. Drink natural soy sauce - it has more salt than salt does

How was your last insole made? Standing on it or seated whilst the fitter moulded it to your foot? The latter is correct for a high quality issue specific one.

Out of interest, do you know of anyone in UK, Northern side, who can do the latter? I need this for ski and walking boots, but can only find the stand-on fitting and that doesn't give me enough or high enough support. Even pretty well-regarded ski boot fitters seem only to do the stand in ones, and I've ended up reheating and pushing up the insoles myself in some cases.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@Grizzler, i know you are somewhat tied to the north but is there no way you can do a day trip to London? Profeet 100%

Your feet cant change by half a size. That isn't how feet work. You would need exceptionally fat feet and a distinct lack of bones for that to be remotely true.

Your boots don't fit.

They do - I've measured both before and after (potentially a touch below .5, but definitely closer to half than not growing at all). No my feet aren't fat, I believe it's due to exceptionally high arches that I have - this contributes to many boots feeling agonising as my feet tend to be crushed by the boot due to this..

After all it is free

After all it is free

Your feet don't change size instantly, they can change shape.

They can change size rapidly due to vasodilation 2ary to pain - but I would think seconds would be a bit quick.

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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.

@Thornyhill, @motdoc, I have just taken my socks off, put a tape measure on the floor and can easily get well over an inch of difference in my foot length (and they're only very skinny M23.5!) depending on whether I simply 'clench' my arch and foot muscles (not difficult on a steep/scary run, by the way - so probably easy enough to happen in any boot that isn't an utter all-round ultra-tight fit, especialy if taking off and landing as the OP referred to), let them relax, stand relaxed or stand very pressured.
So, um, yes, my feet can change by "half a size" too; a lot more than half a size, I reckon. I'm not talking about curling things up, just normal ability to contract, relax and put strain through my tender little foot paws. Like the OP I just seem to have very flexible feet; maybe being thin, with no fat or visible padding to speak of (oh, the joys of ski boot comfort ), makes the issue more apparent?

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Ski the Net with snowHeads

@Grizzler, I can be 5'9 if I slouch or 6'2 if I stand on tippy toes. That doesn't mean I grow 5 inches in a few seconds. Well fitted boots will support your tootsies at all points. Badly fitted boots won't, allowing for a change in shape.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Grizzler wrote:

Out of interest, do you know of anyone in UK, Northern side, who can do the latter? I need this for ski and walking boots, but can only find the stand-on fitting and that doesn't give me enough or high enough support. Even pretty well-regarded ski boot fitters seem only to do the stand in ones, and I've ended up reheating and pushing up the insoles myself in some cases.

And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.

And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.

Thornyhill wrote:

Well fitted boots will support your tootsies at all points. Badly fitted boots won't, allowing for a change in shape.

I don't disagree in the slightest - well-fitting boots and appropriate insoles are essential.
I was just pointing out that some people can and do have feet which expand and contract as the OP was reporting and others refuting.

So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much

So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much

@Johnor, last time I was there ( a long trip south for me still) they only did Sidas (?) stand-on ones rather than mould into your feet ones.
Someone has suggested a couple of places in Kendal or Keswick for walking boot ones but have yet to see what type they do.

You know it makes sense.

You know it makes sense.

Grizzler,
An interesting comment about "clenching foot muscles on a steep/scary run."

I've got a friend who suffers agony in ski boots. He has very limited ski experience & last year mentioned foot clenching on steep runs...

2 beginner friends also mentioned it years ago and I was flabbergasted.

I can honestly say that, in over 30 years of skiing, I've not once clenched feet or toes - regardless of the gradient. (Sphincter, yes
- but no to the feet!)

I wonder if this is a common problem.

So, :sH, how many of you have experienced foot clenching?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Grizzler wrote:

Raceplate wrote:

How was your last insole made? Standing on it or seated whilst the fitter moulded it to your foot? The latter is correct for a high quality issue specific one.

Out of interest, do you know of anyone in UK, Northern side, who can do the latter? I need this for ski and walking boots, but can only find the stand-on fitting and that doesn't give me enough or high enough support. Even pretty well-regarded ski boot fitters seem only to do the stand in ones, and I've ended up reheating and pushing up the insoles myself in some cases.

Rivington Alpine seems to be the "goto" Northern place, not been personally, but my wife has.

Poster: A snowHead

Poster: A snowHead

Agree, feet do get bigger and spread out under weight.
I've just fitted Superfeet Blue foot beds and they seem to hold foot size better than my old instaprint custom footbeds, and are more stable.
I also make sure my toenails are trimmed well back.

Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person

Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person

@Bergmeister, me, unfortunately! I often clench/curl my toes. It's quite possibly due to being nervous on more difficult ski runs, but I also do it when running (which seems to be related to the amount of effort I put in, as it's more likely to happen during a long and/or hard run). It's a pointless and annoying habit, which has caused many black toenails - not so much of an issue for running, as trainers are forgiving, but can be painful in ski boots. Obviously I try to concentrate on not doing it, but forget/get distracted all too often!