How easy is it to put HD600 drivers in the HD650? - Page 2

Thanks applebook! Unfortunately you're right though, there is no way of telling.

I could well have been sold HD650's with HD600 drivers inside. If it makes any difference, I definitely have the 'silver screen' version of the HD650 that is said to be brighter than the 'black-screen' older version of the HD650. By 'brighter' I presume that means the 'silver screen' version have less bass and more treble quantity than the 'black screen' version.

Even in this thread there is disagreement, with applebook saying no way would the DT880 ever sound as bassy as the HD650, and others saying that the bass is the same, but the reduced treble makes the bass look more in the HD650.

It would be a great help to me if someone did a quick A/B (if they happen to own both HD650 and DT880) comparison using a named track and on the same amp, and they could tell me what they notice in the bass (and, indeed other parts of the sonic presentation as well if possible) that is different between the DT880 and HD650...?

I think the case here is just a combination of both difference in perception, as well as the fact that the 650s actually have 2 different types, the "white" and "black" driver versions. The black driver ones are the older 650s and have a slightly different sound sig from the newer white ones, and some reviews are of the black driver ones. If you really want to pry deeper there are plenty of old threads that explore this, since this could account for the discrepancy in sound sig.

As a side note, Sennheisers are generally more bass light that a lot of other HPs, so although people say the 650s have "a lot" of bass, it's more of a comment of how it has a lot more bass compared to other Senn cans, not that it puts bass like the D2000s.... So maybe coming from more bassy cans the 650s feel a little underwhelming, and this could just be your issue.

I think the case here is just a combination of both difference in perception, as well as the fact that the 650s actually have 2 different types, the "white" and "black" driver versions. The black driver ones are the older 650s and have a slightly different sound sig from the newer white ones, and some reviews are of the black driver ones. If you really want to pry deeper there are plenty of old threads that explore this, since this could account for the discrepancy in sound sig.

As a side note, Sennheisers are generally more bass light that a lot of other HPs, so although people say the 650s have "a lot" of bass, it's more of a comment of how it has a lot more bass compared to other Senn cans, not that it puts bass like the D2000s.... So maybe coming from more bassy cans the 650s feel a little underwhelming, and this could just be your issue.

Could be my issue.When I first got the HD650, I got the black silk version and was coming from Etymotic ER-4P. The HD650 sounded like subwoofers.

I've long sold my old HD650's and now have the silver-screen ones. And now I'm coming from the DT880's, not the ER-4P. Still, people describe the DT880's with the same words they use to describe the ER-4P's: cold, lean and bright.

Apart from the too-prominent treble, the most common complaint you hear about the DT880 is that it's got too little bass. And, apart from the too-distant treble, the most common complaint you hear about the HD650's is that they've got too much bass.

As you'd expect - when I A/B'd them, I was expecting to hear too much bass on the HD650, and too little bass on the DT880 - but lo and behold, they're pretty much identical in bass quantity! It's because of this, the ease of replacing HD650 drivers, and the fact I bought my DT880 new and my HD650 used, that I suspect I've been sold a dodgy pair of HD650's...

Thus, I am interested in hearing people who've got both to A/B them to see if their impressions differ from mine...

So, the HD650 and HD600 drivers are super easy to put in and take out? Just plop one out and snap one in? No soldering, no nothing?

It's a pain like I said.

The HD 650's aren't dark at all, this is just a load of crap that has always been perpetuated on this forum due to love of overly bright headphones. BTW if there are two different versions of the drivers the picture on the previous page show the older, supposedly darker versions.

So, the HD650 and HD600 drivers are super easy to put in and take out? Just plop one out and snap one in? No soldering, no nothing?

It's a pain like I said.

The HD 650's aren't dark at all, this is just a load of crap that has always been perpetuated on this forum due to love of overly bright headphones. BTW if there are two different versions of the drivers the picture on the previous page show the older, supposedly darker versions.

The thing that worries me is that I've seen some posters here, such as 'ZombieX' (though he's not the only one) say that when A/B'ing the same passage of music on the same equipment going from the DT880 to the HD650, he can hear '2-3 times' more bass on the HD650.

When I do the same thing going from DT880 to my HD650's that may or not be fake, there is nowhere near such a difference in bass. At most I can hear slightly fuller sounding low-end on guitars, and, if the kick drum is a 'boomy' sort of kick - it has slightly more impact and takes longer to decay on the HD650. On the other hand, if it is a tight sounding kick drum - it will sound pretty much identical on the HD650 and the DT880.

But if respected posters on here with access to both headphones to A/B them are saying that the HD650 has an increase in bass that isn't even subtle over the DT880 - indeed it can sound 2 to 3 times more bassy, then that makes me think something must be wrong with my HD650...?

The thing that worries me is that I've seen some posters here, such as 'ZombieX' (though he's not the only one) say that when A/B'ing the same passage of music on the same equipment going from the DT880 to the HD650, he can hear '2-3 times' more bass on the HD650.

When I do the same thing going from DT880 to my HD650's that may or not be fake, there is nowhere near such a difference in bass. At most I can hear slightly fuller sounding low-end on guitars, and, if the kick drum is a 'boomy' sort of kick - it has slightly more impact and takes longer to decay on the HD650. On the other hand, if it is a tight sounding kick drum - it will sound pretty much identical on the HD650 and the DT880.

But if respected posters on here with access to both headphones to A/B them are saying that the HD650 has an increase in bass that isn't even subtle over the DT880 - indeed it can sound 2 to 3 times more bassy, then that makes me think something must be wrong with my HD650...?

Well that can vary simply by the volume you listen to because of the way our ears work. Louder = more noticeably V-shaped. quieter = Flatter.

The thing that worries me is that I've seen some posters here, such as 'ZombieX' (though he's not the only one) say that when A/B'ing the same passage of music on the same equipment going from the DT880 to the HD650, he can hear '2-3 times' more bass on the HD650.

Not entirely sure how to read logarithmic scales, but doesn't a small increase in the 'y-axis' mean a huge increase in actual volume, since it is logarithmic? So the HD650, according to that graph should be much bassier in the mid-bass than either HD600 or DT880?

And re. a 'v-shaped' presentation sounding louder for a given volume, surely it would actually be the opposite? The human ear is most sensitive to mid-range frequencies, so when these are largely missing from the sound signature, we percieve the volume to be lower than usual? For example, I thought I was listening at a moderate volume on my DT880 then a sudden high frequency nearly took my ear out!