Does Niops have battlemech production? I've always wondered about that, and if so what do they produce? I know they have like three planets in one system correct?

In 3064 (when FM: Periphery was published) Niops had a population of 19,200,000 spread across three worlds. The bulk of that population lives on Niops VII. The Association has no true mech production facilities, but can build any of the designs they field natively by hand. This means a handful of additional units per year, so it would be extremely difficult to make up losses this way if they were to engage in a protracted campaign.

We've never actually been told what units they have, to my knowledge, but a reasonable guess would be older Terran Hegemony/Star League era designs (Non Royal versions, I would think). I like to think anything manufactured before about 2700 is fair game. Beyond that, you start getting into the Periphery troubles and the Amaris Civil War and it doesn't make sense to send cutting edge equipment to garrison a science outpost.

I love the idea of Niops, but it's just so small I don't see enough opportunity to do much, so I'm mostly a Space Roman when it comes to the Periphery. I wonder if I could make a Niops-originating-and-based merc unit work. Hmmmm.....

I should admit that my view of Niops was incurably warped by chanman and Gio's weirdness collective in FGC3062.

Ah the Cylon and Sphinx hued Niops with just a hint of Ghost in the Shell and Neon Genesis Evangelion for flavor, I miss it. Plus, I never got to get the sub plot going with a secret war between it and my version of the New Avalon Catholic Church where the Pope was the Master (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_%28Doctor_Who%29). Okay, he just looks like Derek Jacobi, and trust me, I laughed after I saw the King's Speech because of it.

I got the opportunity to reread some of the fluff recently. I like where the THAC was going in turn 37 with some of us trying to elect Apollyon as the Director-General. Kind of wish we'd pulled it off.

Anyone mind telling me what happened to Niops in the last Jihad book? I know there was a civil war but that's about it. If this a violation of any copyrights please let me know. I did not see anything in the user agreement which stated this kind of question was improper.

The reason I ask is because I'm working on a Niops fan-fic set before the last Jihad book and want to be accurate towards where the nation was heading. I'm also cheap, both as a preference and necessity, and unwilling to shell out $20 just to read what probably amounts to a paragraph of material.

Not trying to be offensive, like I said I tried to research everything I could before I posted here. All I wanted was a brief synopsis for reference purposes. Whenever I need detailed information I purchase a legitimate copy; such as my Handbook on House Steiner. However Niops, as a small faction, is often paired with larger works making it difficult to discover where and what information is contained within. I'll muddle through without.

JHS: Terra is the most recent i believe. Basically they elected a new director, got nuked which killed said director and the chairperson as well as a bunch of other guests. a captain in the NAM is accused of planting the bomb, and is subsequently busted out of prison by mercs and fighting breaks out between the two. now they have to re-build.

I highly recommend buying the book it's really good and I probably missed some stuff.

Back on topic, does the association produce any mechs, last i heard they had the ability to produce Nighhawk PaLs, adn they have access to Star League stuff (based on their unit ability), but do they have any production capability? Also does anyone know if there is a colour scheme listed anywhere (I know camospecs doesn't have one up but i figure maybe they just haven't gotten around to painting one)?

Back on topic, does the association produce any mechs, last i heard they had the ability to produce Nighhawk PaLs, adn they have access to Star League stuff (based on their unit ability), but do they have any production capability?

There's a good recap here (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,375.msg4202.html#msg4202).

In 3064 (when FM: Periphery was published) Niops had a population of 19,200,000 spread across three worlds. The bulk of that population lives on Niops VII. The Association has no true mech production facilities, but can build any of the designs they field natively by hand. This means a handful of additional units per year, so it would be extremely difficult to make up losses this way if they were to engage in a protracted campaign.

We've never actually been told what units they have, to my knowledge, but a reasonable guess would be older Terran Hegemony/Star League era designs (Non Royal versions, I would think). I like to think anything manufactured before about 2700 is fair game. Beyond that, you start getting into the Periphery troubles and the Amaris Civil War and it doesn't make sense to send cutting edge equipment to garrison a science outpost.

whoa, wait. this is information from a source book. why didn't you freak out when this info was posted, but you did when Ceorl asked for info from a source book? now I'm confused :-\

The difference is that Ceorl basically said "I'm not going to buy the book, someone tell me what it says because I'm cheap!" as opposed to someone volunteering information in response to a question. In addition, the book that came out of is out of print.

The difference is that Ceorl basically said "I'm not going to buy the book, someone tell me what it says because I'm cheap!" as opposed to someone volunteering information in response to a question. In addition, the book that came out of is out of print.

I honestly think that it was a perfectly reasonable request. all he wanted was a small bit of info, and in this case an incredibly small fraction of the info that was in the book, and not worth playing 20 dollars for if that's all he wanted. plus this probably would have ended up on sarna or somewhere on the boards at some point as it always does. as for availability of FM:P firstly battlecorp has been putting these up as pdfs recently, and it's not exactly the most uncommon book to come by, i paid 10 bucks for my copy :-\

So, does anyone know if the guys at Niops are building and exporting Nighthawks, or just manufactureing. What about the corisponding Mauser combat rifle system? None of the books I have on hand says anything about wither that I have been able to find. I'm kinda curious, as I would like to maybe outfit a squad of my mercs with the Nighthawk

So, does anyone know if the guys at Niops are building and exporting Nighthawks, or just manufactureing. What about the corisponding Mauser combat rifle system? None of the books I have on hand says anything about wither that I have been able to find. I'm kinda curious, as I would like to maybe outfit a squad of my mercs with the Nighthawk

All I'm aware of is what's in TRO3075 with them building them for defense. Between the way the place is going confrontational and the stated goal of beating off raids, I doubt they're exporting. As for the Mausers, I don't know one way or the other.

Well. That's a bit of a bummer, an somewhat expected one I admit, but a bummer all the same. Guess I will have to look for other comercially avaliable PA/L suits and see if I can't make them work for me

There's several different commercially sold PA/L suits in TROVA. The Smoothdavid and Smoothgoliath suits on page 196 are probably the most appropriate.

EDIT: By appropriate, I mean suitable for the use - the others are all salvage, loader, mining, or rescue designs, generally without armored gloves. The Smoothdavid and Smoothgoliath lack the stealth of the Nighthawk, though.

I figure this is the best place to ask. Has there ever been any info on the Niops Association Militia's colour scheme or rank structure? And for that matter, does Niops have an intelligence agency that anyone knows of?

I figure this is the best place to ask. Has there ever been any info on the Niops Association Militia's colour scheme or rank structure? And for that matter, does Niops have an intelligence agency that anyone knows of?

Filed Manual: Periphery is probably the place to look, but I don't know that Niops is important enough to have gotten that sort of attention there. They almost certainly have somebody performing intelligence functions, though.

I figure this is the best place to ask. Has there ever been any info on the Niops Association Militia's colour scheme or rank structure? And for that matter, does Niops have an intelligence agency that anyone knows of?

Check FM: Periphery - I think it mentions using either a flat gray or SLDF olive drab default scheme. As for intel, I know I've used a Niops Intelligence Directorate in some of my stuff, but I can't recall if I pulled that from any canon sources or not. Probably not, since there's only 3 or 4 of them.

Oh, I figured they probably just run with good old fashioned SLDF olive drab, but without anything in the Periphery field manual and no examples on CamoSpecs, I thought I just might have missed something.

I figure this is the best place to ask. Has there ever been any info on the Niops Association Militia's colour scheme or rank structure? And for that matter, does Niops have an intelligence agency that anyone knows of?

Uniforms, rank structure, and color schemes seem to be based on SLDF regular units, near as I can tell/recall.

We've never actually been told what units they have, to my knowledge, but a reasonable guess would be older Terran Hegemony/Star League era designs (Non Royal versions, I would think). I like to think anything manufactured before about 2700 is fair game. Beyond that, you start getting into the Periphery troubles and the Amaris Civil War and it doesn't make sense to send cutting edge equipment to garrison a science outpost.

The Black Knight and Burke Heavy tank are both specifically mentioned by name in FM:P. I believe the Highlander was, as well.

Here's a question for other fanboys: Any guesses as to the size of Niops' original scientific mission?

With 13 million people (as of 3025) I'm trying to guess the percentage that could claim decendance from the original science teams. I would think the overwhelming percentage of people are descended from Capellan refugees. Even with three settled planets at the start for a generational research project, I can't imagine the original communities being more than several hundred strong each.

For Science!, just grab every bit of equipment and whatnot possible from every semi-canon sourcebook like Interstellar Players, or even completely non-canon ones like Best Ever!, and assume it's all real. Who wants to form an alliance of the Genecaste and Belters(secretly backed by the Illuminati), and fight off the threat of hyperspace squids and their touched-in-the-head minions, the Manei Domini Blood Mages? :D

Combine that with prolific use of every bit of tech in TacOps that never really gets used, and from there I think you just might end up with Science!

Oh how I wish cell phones could quote. Moble structures as bases just gave me loads of awesome ideas for Science!, but also reminded me of the old Varxis MUSH from, oh, '95? '96? Factions were basically based in giant Jawa-like sand crawlers.

I know folks are enjoying the Science!!! (TM) aspect, but I've been thinking that demographics paint Niops as Sian writ small. After several hundred years where the population is overwhelmingly semi-literate Capellans farmers, and the inevitable cross-social relationships and children, most of the Star League influence, represented by the very very small scientific minority population, will have been subsumed, or at the very least integrated with, Chinese mythos of the vastly more numerous Capellan refugees.

I know they were supposed to have "bargained away their freedoms" (whatever that vague phrase means) but that statement reinforces the argument for a Capellan culture given pre-existing Capellan tendency for a strict hierarchy and centralized government that could, arguably, have prompted the agreement in the first place. By 3070, Niops would have over 20 million people whose isolated cultural facet is overwhelming Chinese. The scientists are the conquering Mongols subsumed into Chinese culture; even though the more numerous Capellans were the ones to invade Niops in BT.

For Science!, just grab every bit of equipment and whatnot possible from every semi-canon sourcebook like Interstellar Players, or even completely non-canon ones like Best Ever!, and assume it's all real. Who wants to form an alliance of the Genecaste and Belters(secretly backed by the Illuminati), and fight off the threat of hyperspace squids and their touched-in-the-head minions, the Manei Domini Blood Mages? :D

Combine that with prolific use of every bit of tech in TacOps that never really gets used, and from there I think you just might end up with Science!

Which would suitably combine with my idea about basing a Weaponer of Qward [from Green Lantern] on Niops.

The decendants of the scientists are ruling with an iron fist. They keep their power by keeping the cappie refugees ignorant. They don't allow them to have an education unless they can pay for it or win a game show by answering insanely obscure questions where if they don't answer correctly they get eectro shock...oh yea. So the fees are always too high. Once again its very Orwellian. Down with big brother anyone?

I know folks are enjoying the Science!!! (TM) aspect, but I've been thinking that demographics paint Niops as Sian writ small. After several hundred years where the population is overwhelmingly semi-literate Capellans farmers, and the inevitable cross-social relationships and children, most of the Star League influence, represented by the very very small scientific minority population, will have been subsumed, or at the very least integrated with, Chinese mythos of the vastly more numerous Capellan refugees.

I know they were supposed to have "bargained away their freedoms" (whatever that vague phrase means) but that statement reinforces the argument for a Capellan culture given pre-existing Capellan tendency for a strict hierarchy and centralized government that could, arguably, have prompted the agreement in the first place. By 3070, Niops would have over 20 million people whose isolated cultural facet is overwhelming Chinese. The scientists are the conquering Mongols subsumed into Chinese culture; even though the more numerous Capellans were the ones to invade Niops in BT.

So Science!! (TM) should be ç§‘å­¦!! (TM)

I don't know, The Conquistadores significantly altered preexisting South American culture, didn't they? Few native Nahuatl speakers left, last I checked.

Well I created a long post with some very weak math in support. But my MBA training wouldn't let me make a theory based upon a basic annual growth formula with the starting figure for each year. So I went back and used the Compound Annual Growth Rate formula to measure the growth rate of the original Star League Colonists, 50,000 (which I found searching the net), from 2750 to 3025 (275 years) assuming an annual growth rate of 1.6%: bout the half the difference between the highest and lowest points of human population growth on Earth.

So my original assumption, that Capellans accounted for the majority of Niops population is probably wrong; although a statistician would have a better idea. Niops population growth rate is pretty consistent with the projected population from the SL colonists meaning Niops would have a heavy SL cultural slant.

Although Weirdo I would point out that for most of its history, Niops was isolationist leaving the two primary cultural influences as Star League and Capellan.

I know they were supposed to have "bargained away their freedoms" (whatever that vague phrase means) but that statement reinforces the argument for a Capellan culture given pre-existing Capellan tendency for a strict hierarchy and centralized government that could, arguably, have prompted the agreement in the first place. By 3070, Niops would have over 20 million people whose isolated cultural facet is overwhelming Chinese. The scientists are the conquering Mongols subsumed into Chinese culture; even though the more numerous Capellans were the ones to invade Niops in BT.So Science!! (TM) should be ç§‘å­¦!! (TM)

Just a question. The book mention "capellan reffuges" or "chinese capellan refugges"? Capella is not the same as chinese, as you have a lot of ethnicies in the COnfederation (heck, there was argentinians IIRC, in Buenos Aires).

Well my original hypothesis was wrong, but still in BT: Capellan = Chinese, Draconis = Japanese, Lyran = German, FRR = Swedes, FS = English, FWL = closest to polygot. If you don't have information saying otherwise, I always fall back on the basic stereotype because, although the source books try and lay out multiple ethnicities, the first major story about argentinian Capellans I read will be the first.

I believe the second highest % of people in the CC speak Russian or of Russian descent

Well, English is probably language number 2, being the language for most of humanity in the 31st century.As for the Russian cultural heritage, probably until 3025 when the Tikinov district was relocated to another nation.

That works for the Wobbies & the techpriests of mars also. Nice quote !

Oh you have no idea... ^_^

It's from Rush's concept album 2112, and, yeah, it definitely fits the WoB, and Niops, especially in the Succession Wars era, where they seem to have gone through a WoBbish phase. Here's the full lyrics and prelude to the song:

Quote from: Rush

And the meek shall inherit the earth...

[II. Temples of Syrinx]

...'The massive grey walls of the Temples rise from the heart of every Federation city. Ihave always been awed by them, to think that every single facet of every life is regulatedand directed from within! Our books, our music, our work and play are all looked after bythe benevolent wisdom of the priests...'

We've taken care of everythingThe words you read, the songs you singThe pictures that give pleasure to your eyesIt's one for all and all for oneWe work together, common sonsNever need to wonder how or why

We are the Priests of the Temples of SyrinxOur great computers fill the hallowed hallsWe are the Priests, of the Temples of SyrinxAll the gifts of life are held within our walls

Look around at this world we've madeEquality our stock in tradeCome and join the Brotherhood of ManOh, what a nice, contented worldLet the banners be unfurledHold the Red Star proudly high in hand

We are the Priests of the Temples of SyrinxOur great computers fill the hallowed hallsWe are the Priests, of the Temples of SyrinxAll the gifts of life are held within our walls

Rush is probably the greatest prog rock band ever. As we are speaking Thom Sawyer is playing over the radio. Because of Rush i started playing D&D and that space game TSR had. Lots of mideval fantacy and scifi stuff in their songs.

What is known about Niops planetary systems ? I mean, moons (inhabitable or not), continents, plants and fauna, satellites, jump points, atmosphere, climate, ...Is there a place, a book where I can read about those things ?

I think the best reference is Field Manual: Periphery but I'm not sure. Sarna probably has some information, too. That said, it's unlikely you'll find all the information you're looking for.

However, I will note that jump points are a function of star type, planetary size, and orbital mechanics. Since we rarely have the full data on stellar systems, calculating all the possible transient points is impossible and falls under the heading of GM's discretion in most cases. We do normally have star type. Given that, the chart in Strategic Operations will give you the proximity point distance. The zenith and nadir 'points' are simply special case proximity points that are customarily used.

I'm away from my books but I recall something somewhere saying that of the three, Niops VII is the most habitable and Niops VI is kind of cold. Most of the industry is also located on VI, as it was the main target of the ill-fated Marian raid.

What is known about Niops planetary systems ? I mean, moons (inhabitable or not), continents, plants and fauna, satellites, jump points, atmosphere, climate, ...Is there a place, a book where I can read about those things ?

I only have an electronic copy of the first edition Periphery sourcebook at work, so I can't check this against the second edition or the Periphery Field Manual, but this is what was detailed about the Niops system in the first edition Periphery sourcebook. The Niops Association only gets four paragraphs of text for backgrond in the book, plus a sidebar for flavour that reads a lot like one of the tv programmes advertised in the movie "The Running Man" so the culture of the Association has been amended/altered/updated pretty significantly over time, but I don't think that the physical structure of the system itself has been altered.

Okay, so are the educated a minority? Or is the technical education among the Niopsian better than the rest of the IS excepting ComStar/Word? If they kept their technical base . . . do they have more automated worlds than the Inner Sphere? IE, a high percentage of farms run with AgroMechs instead of simpler tractors? Robotic factories?- which seems to run contrary to the Nighthawk fluff.

Oh yeah, how friendly are they to mercs/foreigners? Especially with the politcal unrest that mercs seemed to be involved in.

Okay, so are the educated a minority? Or is the technical education among the Niopsian better than the rest of the IS excepting ComStar/Word? If they kept their technical base . . . do they have more automated worlds than the Inner Sphere? IE, a high percentage of farms run with AgroMechs instead of simpler tractors? Robotic factories?- which seems to run contrary to the Nighthawk fluff.

Oh yeah, how friendly are they to mercs/foreigners? Especially with the politcal unrest that mercs seemed to be involved in.

The "native" population was highly educated and enjoyed a full, SL era technical culture. The descendants of the Capellan refugees that arrived during the 2nd Succession War received a more vocational education and opportunities to advance beyond the glass ceiling this imposed were rare up until the late 3050s or so.

One of the Mercs books says something about the industries on Niops VI being heavily automated, but most of the defense/military stuff is done by hand.

As for Merc relations, the Jihad years have not been good ones - the Black Heart Roses' arrival on Niops ended up causing a lot of damage, long term. (Up to and including a coup attempt/political assassination.)

Word of Blake invasion. By October 3079, the Niops Association Militia is at 1/3 strength, holed up on Niops V, and conducting a guerrilla war, with the Wobbies in control of Niops VI and VII.

Invasion isn't the worst of it. The nuking of Niops VII and the destruction of the Projects Workshop undoes centuries of slow, steady progress. Unless they manage to use the relative peaceful period between the end of the Jihad and 3150 to build a more modern defense industry the Association is going to be in a world of hurt when their neighbors start getting adventurous again.

It's all second hand information - a possible civil war interrupted by invasion, a nuke going off in the capital, a total cessation of communications with the outside.

Hopefully Final Reckoning will provide more info. If there was a Blakist presence in large numbers in '79 then it's a miracle the Regulans didn't swing by and just carpet bomb the system "just to be sure".

It's all second hand information - a possible civil war interrupted by invasion, a nuke going off in the capital, a total cessation of communications with the outside.

Hopefully Final Reckoning will provide more info. If there was a Blakist presence in large numbers in '79 then it's a miracle the Regulans didn't swing by and just carpet bomb the system "just to be sure".

Well, I suppose we can take comfort that the Niops (which my TouchPad spellchecker wants to change to Hoops) Association is still on the MWDA map...with all three worlds (the hidden colony on IX not included).

Well, I suppose we can take comfort that the Niops (which my TouchPad spellchecker wants to change to Hoops) Association is still on the MWDA map...with all three worlds (the hidden colony on IX not included).

Indeed! Although the information from the Touring the Stars entry was so similar to the 3067 data that many of us (ok, me) assumed that nothing must have happened in the intervening years.

Oh, come on! You know Hoops is the one place in the galaxy that still runs webOS...well, besides my house.

The Dark Age blackout was actually caused by the Niops HPG rolling out a P2P-distributed patch that had the unfortunate side effect of completely bricking HPG whose operators had neglected to keep their systems up to date.

OK, so is anyone else confuses by the Word of Blake invasion of Niops? Chanman and I were planning out the Niops fanfic we're working on, and found some...oddities.

First, Niops is small time. We might not want to admit it, but we all know it. Industrial capacity? Sure, they have some small capacity to build SLDF military hardware, but certainly not enough to significantly affect the Blakist war effort.

Field Report Periphery mentions that Niops got invaded because the Word of Blake could take advantage of their internal unrest (over for nearly a year, though, wasn't it?) and also to gain access to their mineral resources. However, chanman and I both recall reading that Niops is mineral poor, having depleted most of their mineral resources.

So, why the heck did the Word of Blake not only invade Niops, but go so far as to use nukes, but invade with a small enough force that, after two years, the Niops Associated Militia still held Niops V?

first foundation under the mule trying to stop the 2nd foundation from surviving to the proper time? ;) 8)

more seriously, perhaps it has to do with some of niops' oddities. why did a tiny pure science research outpost get several regiments of star league military hardware for guards? hell, they even had Nighthawk's which were classified at "read about then shoot yourself after" levels even for the Terran Hegemony's upper commands.why did they have a techno-religious society when comstar first contacted them, but a more normal one when relations became more normalized with the IS? what kind of science data is worth the cost of several regements of top of the line battlemechs? etc.

a shot in the dark (and parhaps an interesting plot idea for fanfic), perhaps Niops really was something of a 'Seldon Foundation". set up in an out of the way place where it would be safe from political fallout, with a fairly pluasible cover. set up with massive databanks of info about everything, and staffed with eggheads to ensure that the knowledge can be preserved and maybe improved over time. then assigned a heavy guard (for it's size) citing issues with the nearby RWR and other periphery powers as a cover.

all as a "timecapsule" in case the worst comes to past and the IS fights the 'final war'.

heck, you could even attribute it to Jerome Blake before he became leader of comstar.. certainly the idea fits his fears about the IS that the word of blake perverted into their plan of "let them fal lto the stone age so we can swoop in as rescueing angels" though the timing of the founding of niops would imply some longevity medical tech being involved..

We know in the early 3060s, the Niops Association has a population of around 20 million spread across three planets in the same red dwarf star system. The planets are close enough, in fact, that aerospace fighters can stage between each planet in less than a day with minimal drop tanks. It's also, IIRC, less than 3 days to their jump point.

So, we know some level of interplanetary travel has to happen - if not, how'd they settle all three worlds? Cargo and people travel back and forth between the three planets.

Additionally, the Niops Association Militia has four "regiments" which each consisited of a 'Mech/armor battalion and two infantry battalions, which have to shuffle troops between the three planets, as well as a single (in 3062 or so) aerospace fighter wing. Over the run-up to the Jihad, they also funded another battalion (IIRC) of armor/'Mechs via "astronomical research data". After the Jihad began, they also started producing Nighthawk PA(L) suits. So, they've certainly got high-tech production, but it's always been characterized as being very slow, and often practically hand-built.

During the Jihad, occasional reports from JumpShips come in to tell about the invasion of Niops after their HPGs go silent. It's not clear whether these were JumpShips visiting Niops or, initially, escapees, though.

Given that this isn't the FGC'62, where Niops could produce JumpShips without too much difficulty, were gearing up to produce the Tracker class, and had the blueprints to the Newgrange but absolutely no hope of ever building them, I'm trying to figure out what a more realistic picture of Niops merchant and military shipping might have looked like at the start of the invasion by the Word of Blake. What their shipbuilding industry might look like would be an added bonus.

So, how big a civilian DropShip fleet would Niops realistically? As for designs, I figure the Danais is a possibility, though they seem to have gotten better gear than the average Periphery state (since they were directly colonized by the "Star League"), so something like the Buccaneer or Mule may be more likely. I'm not aware of too many passenger liners, just the Monarch and, IIRC, Princess.

I'm assuming Niops can't move their entire military at one time, which makes sense, since they had little need to do so. Figure shipping to move maybe a quarter of that - around one combined arms battalion and two battalions of infantry at most? Thoughts?

Lastly, what do you think their FTL transportation assets probably look like?

My end goal in all of this is not only to try to round out my mental picture of what the Niops Association looks like, but also to figure out what realistically could have escaped at the start of the invasion - yes, chanman and I had the idea of a "ragtag" fleet led by some military ship escorting a wacky bunch of transhumanists looking to start over somewhere else.

As a colony, they may not have been allocated FTL transportation, expecting that they would be receiving regular visits from SLDF or SL civilian transports. (This might also help explain why once contact was lost they didn't hop over to the nearest FWL system and see what was up.)

The first opportunity to acquire JumpShips might have been when the Capellan refugees stumbled across the system. If that's the case, I'm thinking a handful of Scout or Merchant class ships, with only the bare minimum of infrastructure bootstrapped into production to keep them serviced.

You're right about the intra-system traffic angle, though. The Niops system should be buzzing with DropShips, and there should be enough demand and industry to produce some local knockoff designs. (What was the predecessor to the Union? The Lion?)

How widely know are the Niops worlds? I am considering changing my mercs future home destination to one of these worlds, but the whole bit about the mercs participating in a coup attempt might make it uncomfortable.

One of my pet theories is that Niops was a cover for a Special Armed Services base, hence why they had enough data (and probably examples) of the Nighthawk BAs. Given they basically hand-tooled their high end gear, they had to have some equipment on hand to copy in addition to the mechanics/basic technical guides.

How widely know are the Niops worlds? I am considering changing my mercs future home destination to one of these worlds, but the whole bit about the mercs participating in a coup attempt might make it uncomfortable.

Around the Periphery edge of FWL space, relatively well known - at least, well enough to send multiple groups out to make sure everything was OK there. They're well-known to ComStar/WoB, and merited multiple VIP mentions in-character: Lear, for example, mentioned them in reports to Stone.

One of my pet theories is that Niops was a cover for a Special Armed Services base, hence why they had enough data (and probably examples) of the Nighthawk BAs. Given they basically hand-tooled their high end gear, they had to have some equipment on hand to copy in addition to the mechanics/basic technical guides.

Possible. I also tend to suspect they were a major Star League data repository, with something akin to the Helm or New Dallas Cores.

As a colony, they may not have been allocated FTL transportation, expecting that they would be receiving regular visits from SLDF or SL civilian transports. (This might also help explain why once contact was lost they didn't hop over to the nearest FWL system and see what was up.)

The first opportunity to acquire JumpShips might have been when the Capellan refugees stumbled across the system. If that's the case, I'm thinking a handful of Scout or Merchant class ships, with only the bare minimum of infrastructure bootstrapped into production to keep them serviced.

Sounds about right. Capacity to support, if not construct, JumpShips.

Quote

You're right about the intra-system traffic angle, though. The Niops system should be buzzing with DropShips, and there should be enough demand and industry to produce some local knockoff designs. (What was the predecessor to the Union? The Lion?)

Lion and Confederate. The former carried eight 'Mechs and a company of light vehicles, the latter either four 'Mechs and two ASF or six 'Mechs.

The only real problem I have with NIOPS being a memory core planet is if it were they should have been able to build battlemech factories from specs left in the core. Problem 1) no labor to build it. Solution is they had all the cappy refugees.

Problem 2) maybe the weren't in the core.Solution they're pretty bright,even the MH is building primitives in factories and they have been around a lot less time and with less knowledgeable people.

Altho in my opinion i also believe they were a military/covert ops/something sneeky and fun place.

I wonder if a large portion of the in-system civilian traffic(and maybe a bit of military) isn't done with Dropships, but long-range shuttles?

Plausible, but you get some scales of economy with dropships - fewer trips, oversized cargos, fewer pilots and traffic. Or, why I see a lot of 53 and 48 foot trailers at work even though most of the shipping depots we receive shipments from are inside the city and perfectly doable with 5 tons or pup trailers.

True. I just figure that smaller craft give a lot of flexibility, especially when you're a small-time merchant. Military-wise, I bet there's certain situations when a light tank and a squad or two of infantry will do, and given how few DropShips they must have, a DropShuttle will probably do just fine.

It's a cast-iron bitch to find infantry movers from the 27th Century that don't haul a bunch of other stuff: if Niops could move a sizeable portion of their infantry on standard DropShips, their spacelift for 'Mechs and vehicles would be utter overkill. Figure Niops probably uses a lot of landing craft and the SLDF predecessor of the Battle Taxi to move infantry.

How did they settle the other two worlds in the system without any spacecraft production?

Note, I'm not saying they could refurb WarShips, but they hadn't started on all three worlds, just Niops VII, and FM:P implies they were building ASFs the same way they were building their 'Mechs. I figure they have to have some kind of aerospace industry in place, or I can't see how they could maintain interplanetary trade and government throughout the Succession Wars.

110 Things SPC Skippy of the Niops Association Militia has been warned about or is no longer allowed to do:

1) I will not convince the Highlander pilots to play hopscotch2) "Blood for the Blood God" is not an acceptable battlecry3) In space, no one can hear me scream. Unless my mic is on4) I will not install a plank at the airlock5) When we space pirates, we are not making them 'walk the plank'6) I will not sign up for a foreign Military Intelligence posting to 'bang new and exotic space hookers'7) Even if those are Colonel Zubok's exact words8) Upon reaching space, I am not to exclaim "My god, it's full of stars!"9) I am not a Colonial Marine10) I am not a Space Marine

11) I am not an Imperial Stormtrooper12) I am not a Mandolarian bounty hunter13) The Mauser 960 Assault System is not a Lasgun14) The Mauser 960 Assault System is not a Blaster Rifle15) The Mauser 960 Assault System is not a Ray gun16) The Mauser 960 Assault System is not a Phaser17) The Mauser 960 Assault System is not a Disruptor18) Butt-stroking is not the Mauser 960 Assault System's 'stun mode'19) I may not make 'pew-pew' sounds with my mouth at the range20) I may not make 'pew-pew' sounds with my mouth in combat

21) I may not make 'pew-pew' sounds with any other bodily sounds, ever22) The Mauser 960 Assault System's grenade launcher is not "My little friend"23) In fact, I am not to refer to it as anything but a Mauser 96024) MREs are not Soylent Green25) MREs are not 'people'26) I may neither confirm nor deny that Soylent Green is people27) Riot Control compounds are not authorized for use as personal entertainment28) I am to report damaged Riot Control compound containers for repair29) Damaged RC compound containers are not, in fact, a good time in the old town tonight30) Killing a pirate with a pyronetic weapon may not be referred to as "My hot date tonight"

31) The first rule of Military Intelligence is we don't talk about Military Intelligence32) The second rule of Military Intelligence is that no one will believe me anyway33) Colonel Zubok is never lacking for test subjects34) When Colonel Zubok asks me if I like ice cream, he isn't actually about to give me ice cream35) The Nighthawk is Powered Armour (Light). It is not: Carapace Armour, Space Marine Powered Armour, Mjolnir Combat Armour, Anorexic Battle Armour, a Combat Skin, and it is not made by Mandolarians36) Aerospace fighters are not starfighters37) ASFs do not carry Proton Torpedos38) I will not tell pilots to "Use the Force"39) ASF pilots do not train in Beggar's Canyon40) Manportable SRMs are not Bazookas

41) I may not teabag slain enemies42) I may not teabag prisoners43) I may not teabag my chain of command44) I may not teabag my subordinates45) I may teabag other consenting adults, but I am not to speak about it. Ever.46) My subordinates are not henchmen47) I am not allowed to exclaim "That's no moon!" upon seeing anything in space48) I will not sell my water purification tablets to the locals as "Lostec male enhancement pills"49) I will not tell the locals that I am equipped with Lostec marital abilities50) Tribbles are a strictly controlled biological weapon. Plush tribbles are not funny

51) Clanners are not the Clone Army of the Old Republic52) Clanners are not 'easy' even if they are53) Clanners are not a cheap date, even if they are54) Clanners are not my 'friends with benefits' even if they are55) Signals is not staffed by deckers, and they do not cut ICE56) I am to stop calling Syrinx, Siri57) I am to stop calling Syrinx, Wintermute58) I am to stop calling Syrinx, Neuromancer59) I am to stop calling Syrinx, HAL60) I am to stop calling Syrinx, Cortana

61) The shipboard computer system does not have a sense of humour62) The base computer system does not have a sense of humour63) My Commanding Officer does not have a sense of humour64) No Sergeant-Major, ever, has had a sense of humour65) Sergeant-Majors do not have their sense of humour surgically removed upon promotion66) Lady Gaga's "Born this Way" may not be used to explain why sergeant-majors do not have a sense of humour67) I will not understand Syrinx's sense of humour68) I won't want to understand Colonel Zubok's sense of humour69) I may not play strip poker with any relative of any officer or senior NCO70) I may not make demotivator recruitment posters

71) The first Star League is not the Old Republic72) The second Star League is not the New Republic73) The third Star League is not the New Republic74) The third Star League is not the Evil Empire75) The first Star League is not the Evil Empire76) Niops Association is not the Imperial Remnants77) The Coalition of Periphery States is not the Rebel Alliance78) Spacers are not 'born shaved'79) Eating an 'all-you-can-eat' restaurant out of food does not qualify me for a medal80) We are no longer allowed to patronize buffets

81) My tour of duty on Luxen was not a "whirlwind of recreational pharmaceuticals and curious co-eds" 82) My sordid affairs may not be immortalized in song83) My sordid affairs may not be immortalized in video84) My tour of duty may not be summarized as "Bad Romance"85) I will stop telling lurid stories about the Canopian locals to new arrivals. Especially if they are true86) Just because the Lyran exchange officer is my CO does not make him 'mein Fuhrer'87) Niops Territorial Militias are not Wolverine units88) Clanners don't bend that way89) Clanners do not have: Duct Tape IIC, Condoms IIC, MREs IIC, or Morphine IIC and I should stop asking them for it90) The only thing that Colonel Zubok's sidearm is compensating for is the advancement in personal armour

91) I may not beg the ship captain to "Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure"92) When dealing with underground facilities, nuking it from orbit is not a sure thing93) Nukes are not party favours, and I should stop asking for some from the Taurians94) I am not to apologize profusely to Taurians about eating their kindred spirits at the mess dinner95) Bioengineering 612 will not teach me how to crossbreed Jade Falcons and the domestic turkey96) The cybernetics department is not the Adeptus Mechalnicus, despite anything they may have told me to the contrary97) The NAM communications network is not Skynet98) Niops does not field assassin droids99) "Hey, y'all watch this!" is not considered adequate notification prior to conducting unauthorized experiments with government owned equipment100) My APC is not a monster truck

101) When playing hearts, I may not literally shoot the moon102) Duct tape is not Lostech103) Duct tape is not 'Self-adhesive armour'104) If the motor pool asks me to grab them headlight fluid, I will not give them a bottle of urine in return105) A bottle of urine is the wrong answer to everything except a drug test106) I can not get a second-hand high by hanging around the riot control troops107) I am not to create authentic defrutum for the Marians108) Lyran Battle Armour do not belong to the organization Kerberos109) I will not convince the Goliath Scorpions to turn the Remembrance into an anime OVA110) I will not sell the Goliath Scorpions brown acid or, for that matter, any sort of psychoactive substance

How widely know are the Niops worlds? I am considering changing my mercs future home destination to one of these worlds, but the whole bit about the mercs participating in a coup attempt might make it uncomfortable.

A bit late, but I haven't been on the 'net lately. In any case they're widely known, but the timeframe is fairly key.

Pre-3050, they had a simple policy regarding intruders: If we don't like you, our aerospace wing (!!!) will convert you to high-purity metal deposits on an uninhabited rock. And unless there's a damned good reason otherwise, we probably don't like you. BTW, have you seen our awesome game shows?

3050-3060: Fire sale, Star League-quality research data! Discounts possible in exchange for large amounts of military hardware!

3060-3065: This is a scary, scary universe. Thankfully we've bolstered our defense with mercs and lots of extra gear, and get to watch the crazy from over here.

3065-30??: Damnit. At least it can't any worse... okay, I was wrong. At least now it can't get any... oh fer cryin' out loud.

30??-3130's: Okay, that sucked. Focus on the homeland, screw all the rest of you. (tentative)

3065-30??: Damnit. At least it can't any worse... okay, I was wrong. At least now it can't get any... oh fer cryin' out loud.

30??-3130's: Okay, that sucked. Focus on the homeland, screw all the rest of you. (tentative)

Welcome back, dude!

That does remind me, though: I found the original INN Touring the Stars article archived.

http://darkagepress.com/INN-TTSVolumeXLVIII.html

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Wedged between the Hegemony and the Rim Commonality of the former Free Worlds League another tiny realm, a three-planet alliance known as the Niops Association, is located. Founded as a Star League–era astronomical research base, these worlds grew into a microstate after an influx of refugees from the Succession Wars arrived, and have lived in relative peace and isolation under the rule of noble intellectuals, descended from the original researchers.

What does that tell us? Sounds suspiciously like the intellectuals are back in firm control. A couple possibilities:

1. The Niops Civil War was a reactionary act by hardliners of the old power structure fighting the new one, and winning.

2. The Niops Civil War could have been the underclass rebelling outright against the upper class, and losing.

3. Blame outsiders. The Black Heart Roses make a power grab, along with a discontented lower-ranked officer, and fail. The local balance of power is thrown out of whack. The Blakists try to step in and take over, using local manufacturing to replenish their losses. They eventually lose, though not until the NAM is nearly wiped out.

What do we know for sure? Niops beat the Blakists, which means it couldn't have been a full-scale invasion. Stone's coalition didn't help Niops any more than they participated in action against Circinus, and the Regulans didn't wipe Niops off the map.

110 Things SPC Skippy of the Niops Association Militia has been warned about or is no longer allowed to do:

more:

111) Niops is not the 2nd Foundation112) Comstar is not the 1st Foundation113) The WoB's 'Master' might be a jackass, but he is not the Mule.114) Our Battlemechs cannot form voltron115) Appropriate response to orders is "sir yes sir", not "on the bounce!"116) "On the Bounce" is not appropriate response in the Nighthawk units either.117) Nighthawk suits cannot be armed with Davy Crockett's, so i should stop trying.118) The Burke Tank is not a MKIV Bolo, and i am to stop referring to it as such.119) When asked why my unit led a suicidal charge, "For the Honor of the Regiment" is not a proper response

and i edited the original list (i switched a few around order wise because i though it produced a funnier effect), here is the text file..

So . . . a question for the Niops folks . . . we know the FWL proto-states keep some warships active, but not all the proto-states kept facilities for keeping them online.

Would Niops be a good place to get some of the vital parts hand repaired? or replaced? I realize the cost would likely be multiple (x4?) more than the original part. It would mean not being dependent on another proto-state which is more likely to be an enemy.

Btw, how soon in the Jihad did Niops get wrecked? Would it have been a good place to go fishing for a contract for a merc?

Btw, by the MWDA timeframe, we know Niops has ended its isolation . . . or at least have regular contact with the Rim Commonality.

Btw, how soon in the Jihad did Niops get wrecked? Would it have been a good place to go fishing for a contract for a merc?

The Niops ruling council got bombed in November 3075, with Brigadier Fallon of the NAM declaring martial law soon after. The battles between the Black Heart Roses and the NAM took place in early 3076, with the Black Heart Roses apparently being destroyed in February 3076. In mid-3077, one of the Niops planets tried to put the capital world under an embargo to get martial law lifted, as the Chairperson who survived the bombing had woken up in December 3076. Fallon started redeploying NAM forces to break the embargo, only for the Association to be hit by Marian raiders in August 3077. The Marians sacked Niops V, and Niops VI promptly invaded Niops VII in September trying to depose Fallon, only to end up in a stalemate.

Whatever was happening on Niops VII in late 3077, the Free Worlds League force that left Romita to recover FWL delegates from Niops in February 3078 vanished along with the delegates.

That's the last of the detail in the Jihad books. Field Report: Periphery talks about Niops having been invaded by the Blakists by 3079, beating the NAM on two out of three worlds and the Association apparently "ceasing to exist". Field Manual: 3085 then has the NAM commander trying to rebuild what's left of the association after a Blakist nuclear bombardment, with a comment that the Association had only just begun to recover.

So, it looks as if problems for the Association started in 3075, got worse in 3076/3077, and then the Association got absolutely hammered sometime around 3079 through the early 3080s.

Jihad: Final Reckoning does mention that when Niops VI invaded Niops VII in late 3077, they did so using contracted mercenary forces to augment their own, so there would've been contracts available then. Of course, it follows that the imminent future involves a stalemated war against the NAM, followed by a beating on two out of three worlds from the Blakists, followed by a swift nuking.

Other things about FM 3085, the main academy was destroyed but the militia centers still exist. There's two 'Mech battalions in total, but there's very little to protect and Niops is easy pickings. The "vast resources" are still there, even if the mining equipment's been beat back, so even if the factories are trashed they still have plenty to show up for - or simply conquer and rebuild.

I love the attention Niops is getting! O0 I have always thought they were an interesting little side note, especially now that I see what they have in military affairs, along with delicious campaign information.

Other things about FM 3085, the main academy was destroyed but the militia centers still exist. There's two 'Mech battalions in total, but there's very little to protect and Niops is easy pickings. The "vast resources" are still there, even if the mining equipment's been beat back, so even if the factories are trashed they still have plenty to show up for - or simply conquer and rebuild.

Though, mind you, if anywhere is a microcosm for the Jihad at large, it would be poor old Niops here :o I legitimatly feel for these guys, all they want is to be left alone. Then the Marians Invade, get pushed back (I assume they left when the Jihad got to their borders) and the WoBies invade, trash, and nuke the place when the other guys leave.

I look at the Jihad years as an unfortunately painful recalibration. Given the general devastation and the slowness of post-Jihad reconstruction, Niops' modest production would have outpaced some of the major Periphery states - and probably more than a few Inner Sphere factions as well.

Awesome as it is, Niops is a boutique faction, so it required some...adjusting.

And you can't complain about nothing ever happening to your faction and then turn around and complain about the things happening to your faction. (Well, you can, but it's probably not very polite. Or smart. #P)

Touring the Stars makes it sound like not much happens from 3085 through the 3130s, so there is some time to rebuild. I think Niops would make an excellent catspaw for a Cold War type scenario between the Marians and the Canopians. It's still too much trouble to try to conquer outright, but much more vulnerable to raiding than before, meaning future leaders have to be much more circumspect when dealing with the Caesar and may be open to relying on covert aid from the Ebon Magistrate.

I look at the Jihad years as an unfortunately painful recalibration. Given the general devastation and the slowness of post-Jihad reconstruction, Niops' modest production would have outpaced some of the major Periphery states - and probably more than a few Inner Sphere factions as well.

Awesome as it is, Niops is a boutique faction, so it required some...adjusting.

True, I suppose. Annoying, but true. It does remove some of the uniqueness of the faction, though: they're supposed to be the ridiculously small faction whose technical expertise, military and production are higher than the norm for their size.

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And you can't complain about nothing ever happening to your faction and then turn around and complain about the things happening to your faction. (Well, you can, but it's probably not very polite. Or smart. #P)

Well, you can, depending on how you complain. I can see the Word of Blake late in the Jihad invading Niops: even with the loss of the Workshops, they remain a good source of spare parts and technical experts to repair Star League era military hardware, and as a former Star League colony that does not appear to have bought into the Inner Sphere's refeudalization, they may arguably be sympathetic with the Word of Blake point of view. That, in the end, the battered Niops Association Militia was able to fight off the Blakists without outside help implies that whatever force attacked Niops could not have been very large: the widespread use of nukes on Niops VII even backs up the idea of a desperate Word of Blake Militia unit.

It's the Niops Civil War I'm a little iffy on: there's not much indicative of this in the canon and, as of November 3075, Rayanne Nellis had been the Director of the Niops Association for at least, what, 10-13 years (Was FM:Periphery set in 3062 or 3065?). That the 3074-3075 election was as acrimonious as described seems...odd - why was it? There didn't seem to be much cause for it, and the reports never went into the reason.

The Black Heart Roses and a NAM Captain trying to stage a coup? OK, maybe. From there, though, it just gets weird: with only one surviving chairperson, and him having just got out of a year-long coma, I can see why Fallon kept martial law up a bit longer. To immediately go into embargoes between the planets and then civil war is odd as heck, too.

Quote

Touring the Stars makes it sound like not much happens from 3085 through the 3130s, so there is some time to rebuild. I think Niops would make an excellent catspaw for a Cold War type scenario between the Marians and the Canopians. It's still too much trouble to try to conquer outright, but much more vulnerable to raiding than before, meaning future leaders have to be much more circumspect when dealing with the Caesar and may be open to relying on covert aid from the Ebon Magistrate.

To cover other shortfalls, Van Coevorden has resorted to diplomacy with the Illyrian Palatinate and the fledgling Niops Association.In exchange for military aid, these minor Periphery states offer what little support they can. Officially, such agreements fall outside SLDFjurisdiction, but thus far Regular Army Command has chosen to turn a blind eye to the arrangement.

I wouldn't have thought the Niops Association name would be in use before the fall of the Star League, as the settlements would have been territories of the Star League proper.

Perhaps even that early on there was already a clear distinction between the science mission and the civilian settlers?

Also, does the military aid offered by the SLDF XXXIV Corps maybe explain where Niops got some of the technical information it used to build the NAM in later centuries?

Given that their government consists of Chairpersons and a Director, that makes sense: with Niops having been a colony dedicated to astronomical research of red dwarf stars, the "Niops Association" may have started as an NGO organized by various universities, with the chairpersons each heading a department originally, and the director overseeing operations.

Given that their government consists of Chairpersons and a Director, that makes sense: with Niops having been a colony dedicated to astronomical research of red dwarf stars, the "Niops Association" may have started as an NGO organized by various universities, with the chairpersons each heading a department originally, and the director overseeing operations.

I was going to say that it sounds equally academic. It could be that by the 25th century the endowments for premier schools were absolutely astronomical? (Ba-dum-pshhhhh)

Would the Niops trade... "Stripped down" Star League-model stuff to other Periphery neighbors, for like... Harvesting combines, or whatnot? Something along the lines of, "We need those parts to keep our agriculture running. Here is a CRB-20 for your support."?

Well, we know by the 3130s they were trading with Regulus and the Rim Commonality, what is not quite specified. Might be the best fix-it shop in that area for Jumpships and Dropships, but the hand built parts are going to cost you?

Sorry, I should've specified... I was thinking around the 3020-3030 era.

Has Niops struck you as strictly isolationist? Or would you occasionally find, like, an old, but well-kept Confederate dropship land on your Periphery world, looking to trade once in awhile...?

Confederate no, Buccaneer or Mule yes. Dropping comabt troops for a trade deal, may not yield the best trade deal, not in the long run anyway.Now under the guise of some type of colonial marshal or knights errant, who generally keep the peace, that might be an angle to pursue, but it would have to be a solid effort at doing it, you cannot just pop in once in a while, and play cop, you would have to be pretty regular at it to get the respect, that would open up further trading.

As to the Confederate thing... Heh... That is really the only dropship I know off the top of my head that was used by the Star League... So I ran with it... Yoinks.

If they're predominantly isolationist, would they operate under something akin to the Scorpion Seekers, or Snord's Irregulars... ie, the acquisition, taking, and holding onto Star League technology? Or would that be very out of character? Or would they be more concerned with their Own little corner of Star League advanced technology?

Concerning their later activities in the wider galaxy, does the Major Periphery States book have a good write up of them? Or should I check oneof the Jihad books?...

Niops "magic workshop" was announced as destroyed during the Jihad. Likely what they end up trading in the future is their still not insignificant mineral wealth. I don't think their construction capacity was all that tremendous, essentially providing only for their needs and the exceedingly rare trade.

Mind you, I'm partial to the idea that Niops was the source of the Magistracy's infusions of mysterious tech like the shiny Dictators and some other odd things that fell into the Magistracy's hands over the years. But I've got no evidence that it's true. Could be the work of some yet unseen deep periphery nation we don't know about yet.

Mind you, I'm partial to the idea that Niops was the source of the Magistracy's infusions of mysterious tech like the shiny Dictators and some other odd things that fell into the Magistracy's hands over the years.

Y'know, I never thought about that, I rather like it! Even if they're not building them, they could sell the plans to Canopus in exchange for food and/or medical aid(which they probably really need right now). I don't recall the Dictator being particularly advanced, so they may not be too hard to build.

Mind you, I'm partial to the idea that Niops was the source of the Magistracy's infusions of mysterious tech like the shiny Dictators and some other odd things that fell into the Magistracy's hands over the years. But I've got no evidence that it's true. Could be the work of some yet unseen deep periphery nation we don't know about yet.

If they're predominantly isolationist, would they operate under something akin to the Scorpion Seekers, or Snord's Irregulars... ie, the acquisition, taking, and holding onto Star League technology? Or would that be very out of character? Or would they be more concerned with their Own little corner of Star League advanced technology?

Concerning their later activities in the wider galaxy, does the Major Periphery States book have a good write up of them? Or should I check oneof the Jihad books?...

I don't see them doing much of anything other than repair the damage of the Jihad, I never really got the space archeologist vibe from them.

Before the Jihad, i get them as isolationist, after the Jihad, they have to trade with the outside for tech, for what and with what I don't know, with their workshops destroyed, I cannot see them as having much technology to trade. If I remember correctly they had internal problems, a 2 class system, along TH (Educators Scientists)/House (Laborers Technicians) lines. The old guard didn't like to get their hands dirty, so during the SW they used the people fleeing the wars as laborers. After the Jihad, the lines may have gone away, but now they are just a backwater like the rest of the periphery. My Opinion anyway.

I don't see them doing much of anything other than repair the damage of the Jihad, I never really got the space archeologist vibe from them.

Before the Jihad, i get them as isolationist, after the Jihad, they have to trade with the outside for tech, for what and with what I don't know, with their workshops destroyed, I cannot see them as having much technology to trade. If I remember correctly they had internal problems, a 2 class system, along TH (Educators Scientists)/House (Laborers Technicians) lines. The old guard didn't like to get their hands dirty, so during the SW they used the people fleeing the wars as laborers. After the Jihad, the lines may have gone away, but now they are just a backwater like the rest of the periphery. My Opinion anyway.

I like the idea of Niops becoming a marshaling point for Interstellar Expeditions missions into the Rimward/Spinward Deep Periphery. It keeps it relevant for the short term and provides a good amount of traffic in and out of the system for trade - which they can use to rebuild infrastructure and/or hire additional defenders.

The only question is how paranoid are they after the Jihad? With Blakist forces masquerading as friendly forces during (and after) the Jihad how welcoming are they going to be to outsiders?

I think long term their desire would be to build up the Association Militia to pre-Jihad strength or higher, along with more robust production capabilities. Short term, however, things are very precarious - the only thing saving them from being overrun by the Hegemony at the moment is the fact that Alphard is likely still a bigger mess than Niops VII.

That's why I like the idea of a partnership with IE - the Niops government can profit off of units and ships signing on with IE for expeditions and act as a clearing house world if any of those expeditions make contact with uncharted Periphery worlds or powers open to trade. If they play their cards right, as the Great Houses slowly pare down the number of available mercenary contracts Niops could pick up some of the slack as a mini Hiring Hall world. Of course, they run the risk of someone attempting to pull off an Outreach style sub rosa sneak attack but the factors that led to that happening in the first place would be hard to duplicate.

Meanwhile, with the loss of so much military and industrial power the Niops government has to relearn the art of maintaining a regional balance of power - from a far less advantageous position than it is used to. And perhaps with lingering internal strife, as well.

In my ongoing 3030-ish ATOW campaign, my intrepid players are the bodyguards for an agent of the Oberon Confederation trying to broker a secret deal with the Niops Association. One of the player characters is freelancing on the side to the LIC and is trying to discover what the actual deal is about. Unfortunately for all of them, the MIM, ROM and SAFE are also aware something is going on and are all acting in some fashion against the players team. Add in that the players in the last session were tempted by two separate potentional defectors... one who's bait by Niops folks against the deal with Oberon and the other which is the genuine article. Talk about a snake pit eh?

In my ongoing 3030-ish ATOW campaign, my intrepid players are the bodyguards for an agent of the Oberon Confederation trying to broker a secret deal with the Niops Association. One of the player characters is freelancing on the side to the LIC and is trying to discover what the actual deal is about. Unfortunately for all of them, the MIM, ROM and SAFE are also aware something is going on and are all acting in some fashion against the players team. Add in that the players in the last session were tempted by two separate potentional defectors... one who's bait by Niops folks against the deal with Oberon and the other which is the genuine article. Talk about a snake pit eh?

ISP3 is about largely unknown or neglected periphery planets. The Niops system, though it got hammered, is still viable and has gotten its share of coverage already. What Niops might want to do, though, is to buy itself a Jumpship in a few years and go to one of those Canopian Waste worlds and offer its few thousand people the chance to immigrate to Niops. Done right, it could provide some needed population growth that might help Niops recover.

I remember reading in a Jihad book that the armed forces had to deal with a rampaging mercenary group after its infantry contingent broke the commander out of a Niops prison. They said the damage done by the Black Heart Roses mercenary group did horrible damage, but not if that limited their ability to produce equipment or battlemechs.

Most of the damage done to the Niops Association was done during the internal troubles (riots, etc), raiding by outside forces and then the Blakists directly. The fighting between the Black Heart Roses and the Niops military was more limited (in terms of how large an area the fighting occurred in not necessarily the brutality thereof).

The Black Heart Roses were destroyed when their DropShip exploded enroute to the jump point after they were forced to leave the Niops Association. A couple members might have survived if they split off prior to the DropShip taking off (such as those who might have helped Alicia Carmichael escape), which is what started the fighting between the Niops Association and the mercenaries in the first place.

Oh I know. I'm referencing Sarna there. Not saying you were wrong in any way, just that the timeline seems weird to me as I'm researching. It seems more like the writers wanted to cut off the potential for future advancements in the periphery by knocking down Niops.

That just seems weird to me. In 3079 it appears that the Wobbies had already lost Terra, and retreated to Circinus. That's still a full 94 days of transit time to get to Niops to nuke it.

Why waste all that time to smack an uninvolved party when they're already losing the war for survival?

I know it is the Wobbies, and they were used to plaster a HUGE hole in the Timeline, but some of it just seems so weird.

The Word of Blake actually sent a force to invade the Niops Association. Field Report Periphery touches a bit on the Wobbies motivation, but I suspect they were also looking for easy caches of Star League tech repair parts for their forces, as well, and perhaps another base of operations besides Circinus where they could affect repairs to their forces.

Yup. The Dark Age source material made it clear Niops survived at least through the last novel, though hinted that the social stratification may have been making a reappearance. Where Niops will end up post 3145, though, is anyone's guess.

Yup. The Dark Age source material made it clear Niops survived at least through the last novel, though hinted that the social stratification may have been making a reappearance. Where Niops will end up post 3145, though, is anyone's guess.

Seriously, though, the Marians had ample opportunity to do so after the Jihad and during the Republic era but didn't. Post-Jihad, Niops would have been down to less than two companies of 'Mech and vehicles, a squadron of ASF, and maybe a battalion of infantry (ie. 10% of their pre-Jihad strength), appear to have lost production of one version of the Nighthawk to the Marians (the XXI is not on the master unit list for the Marians during the Jihad, but the XXII is), have lost most of their military production, and had their capitol nuked.

Given all that, why didn't the Marians conquer Niops in the near five decades between the end of the Jihad and kickoff of the Dark Age?

Seriously, though, the Marians had ample opportunity to do so after the Jihad and during the Republic era but didn't. Post-Jihad, Niops would have been down to less than two companies of 'Mech and vehicles, a squadron of ASF, and maybe a battalion of infantry (ie. 10% of their pre-Jihad strength), appear to have lost production of one version of the Nighthawk to the Marians (the XXI is not on the master unit list for the Marians during the Jihad, but the XXII is), have lost most of their military production, and had their capitol nuked.

Given all that, why didn't the Marians conquer Niops in the near five decades between the end of the Jihad and kickoff of the Dark Age?

Mostly the Marian Hegemony was to busy recovering from the Jihad just like everyone else.

The MH is being talked about way more these days than it was back then. The writers probably didn't think about adding all that stuff in because when the DA novels were being written the MH was still just a backwater bandit/pirate state.

I believe if those same DA novels were being written now, with the information we have now about the MH, things would have turned out different. We did expand in this time period also.

Well, I also suspect there's a lot of regional powers who don't want the Hegemony to take the Niops. They still possess the technology and the means to build BattleMechs and other advanced military hardware even if it's damaged. I doubt many former League powers would want the Marians taking Niops and turning it into a refit/resupply depot for their expansion into former League territories.

If I had to guess, I would think Niops still possesses valuable regional allies who supply them with support in both politics and industry. In many ways, they represent a valuable buffer state that few want to see fall by the wayside.

True, but the Hegemony doesn't have an easily attainable long-term future ahead of it. Once the League reforms, my guess is they'd pay more attention to the East, since in the Dark Ages the Magistracy loses Thraxa and Vixen. They've always assaulted Thraxa so it would seem a likely target for expansion. The Thraxans however, would NOT be happy with this plan.

As for the Niops, I suspect they'll always be a minor power. Apart from their three planets, there's little than can do to expand.

Do you maps tell how they came to be part of the Hegemony? Because there are other ways besides conquest.

Fair enough. I have a hard time seeing anyone from that neighborhood of FWL space just inviting the Marians in (since last I checked they were still considered barely-legitimized pirates by mos of their neighbors), but it's true that the map doesn't rule out peaceful transfer of power.

Fair enough. I have a hard time seeing anyone from that neighborhood of FWL space just inviting the Marians in (since last I checked they were still considered barely-legitimized pirates by mos of their neighbors), but it's true that the map doesn't rule out peaceful transfer of power.

Heh, I guess there's always the chance they got together conquered the Hegemony and put up their own puppet Caesar. ;)

Well, Niops is certainly in a position where it must adapt or die in a lot of respects. I really like their history in how they were once a Star League research outpost and thus were able to wield better than average equipment during the Succession Wars, but post-Jihad it seems like they've lost a lot of their previous advantages.

On the plus side, post-war reconstruction always replaces out of date and obsolete infrastructure and equipment. If the Niops Association can get their hands on some good tech, they could easily retrofit and rebuild their factories and become a sturdier target against the denizens of the Periphery.

Well, Niops is certainly in a position where it must adapt or die in a lot of respects. I really like their history in how they were once a Star League research outpost and thus were able to wield better than average equipment during the Succession Wars, but post-Jihad it seems like they've lost a lot of their previous advantages.

On the plus side, post-war reconstruction always replaces out of date and obsolete infrastructure and equipment. If the Niops Association can get their hands on some good tech, they could easily retrofit and rebuild their factories and become a sturdier target against the denizens of the Periphery.

Unfortunately the devastation of the Jihad may have permanently destroyed their ability to fully recover. With their government, most of their military destroyed and most of their industry damaged/destroyed, they are unlikely to recover any time in the near future.

I'm pretty sure that a few blackmarketiers will get their pockets full, but the majority still pay taxes, send supplies up the chain like always and collect pay, likely a bit less than usual due to the " War Effect ". But I believe they pull thru.

Unfortunately the devastation of the Jihad may have permanently destroyed their ability to fully recover. With their government, most of their military destroyed and most of their industry damaged/destroyed, they are unlikely to recover any time in the near future.

I thought NIOPS didn't have actual factories like the rest of the IS. They hand built mechs in garages. If that's so then their production should go back to what it was fairly easy..

Look at it this way, Niops is out of the way, and it's possible the Clans if the ilClan takes over Terra. And over a couple of centuries, it slowly build an Empire for Science just in time by the time of the next great leap forward.

I thought NIOPS didn't have actual factories like the rest of the IS. They hand built mechs in garages. If that's so then their production should go back to what it was fairly easy..

They did't have factories like the rest of the IS that churned out hundreds of Mechs but they had mines, smelters, workshops and assembly bays. All of which is part of their INDUSTRY and many of which got damaged/destroyed in the fighting.

They did't have factories like the rest of the IS that churned out hundreds of Mechs but they had mines, smelters, workshops and assembly bays. All of which is part of their INDUSTRY and many of which got damaged/destroyed in the fighting.

They did't have factories like the rest of the IS that churned out hundreds of Mechs but they had mines, smelters, workshops and assembly bays. All of which is part of their INDUSTRY and many of which got damaged/destroyed in the fighting.

True, but as of 3085 they had repaired enough to field two full Mech battalions and at least double that number of armor and infantry units. That's at least 2 combined arms regiments right there, and those regiments are considerably higher-tech than the Marian Legions.Which is the main reason the Hegemony does not move on the association: It would require more force than the Hegemony can spare to conquer.

True, but as of 3085 they had repaired enough to field two full Mech battalions and at least double that number of armor and infantry units.

Nearly two Mech battalions and their aerospace regiment has been decimated. As of 3085, it fields only two fighter squadrons. It is unclear whether the rebuilt Mech forces are newly built or simply salvaged and repaired Mechs. (I wasn't aware that they fielded armor in any significant quantities.)

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That's at least 2 combined arms regiments right there, and those regiments are considerably higher-tech than the Marian Legions.

Barely 2 combined arm regiments that are spread across three planets and while (maybe) fielding higher tech than the average Marian Legion, some of the more prestigious Marian Legions field more advanced tech. Both the I and II Marian Legions are approximately 70% upgraded and have an A rating while the Niops Militia is only 22% upgraded with a D rating.

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Which is the main reason the Hegemony does not move on the association: It would require more force than the Hegemony can spare to conquer.

Not really. The main reason is that the Hegemony sees richer spoils available along the (former) FWL periphery border that are less defended (or at least so they assumed). They did encounter some difficulties on San Nicholas.

Not really. The main reason is that the Hegemony sees richer spoils available along the (former) FWL periphery border that are less defended (or at least so they assumed). They did encounter some difficulties on San Nicholas.

Well with the reunification of FWL, is taking old league worlds really good idea for the MH? I mean even weaken as it is the FWL is a bit more for the MH to take on.

Well with the reunification of FWL, is taking old league worlds really good idea for the MH? I mean even weaken as it is the FWL is a bit more for the MH to take on.

The FWL isn't weakened, it's gone. None of the remnant states are going to attacks the Hegemony for picking up a few independent worlds, they're too busy fighting each other, or fighting for survival against encroaching foreign powers.

The FWL isn't weakened, it's gone. None of the remnant states are going to attacks the Hegemony for picking up a few independent worlds, they're too busy fighting each other, or fighting for survival against encroaching foreign powers.

I believe cavalier1685 is talking about the reunification of the FWL under Captain Jessica Halas-Hughes Marik (talk about a mouthful) in 3139. Which, of course, is more than half a century after the post-Jihad time period we were discussing.

I believe cavalier1685 is talking about the reunification of the FWL under Captain Jessica Halas-Hughes Marik (talk about a mouthful) in 3139. Which, of course, is more than half a century after the post-Jihad time period we were discussing.

Thatsnot happening for a long time. Rhere are no psychics in the game so they can't look 60 years in the future to see that the FWL gets back togerher. They're doing what is good for what they forsee for their future.

So, now that Era Report 3145 has not only confirmed that Niops has lost any battlearmor/PA(L) production facilities, and has assigned them the Periphery RAT with a -1 modifier (same as the other little Periphery powers), anyone care to speculate on what kind of production, and what likely designs, Niops has been able to recover by the 3130s-3145 range?

So, now that Era Report 3145 has not only confirmed that Niops has lost any battlearmor/PA(L) production facilities, and has assigned them the Periphery RAT with a -1 modifier (same as the other little Periphery powers), anyone care to speculate on what kind of production, and what likely designs, Niops has been able to recover by the 3130s-3145 range?

i'd love to speculate.. but i don't have the Periphery RAT's with which to base my speculations on. :(

i would imagine that Niops is now limited to whatever they can buy/steal/salvage the same way other small periphery nations are, though i would hope that the remains of their once mighty workshops could at least be up to the task of building spare parts.

hmm.. we know in the past Niops could build copies of SLDF mechs. even after their workshop based industry got damaged so badly, why couldn't they be able to produce mechs still, just at a less complex tech level? they should be able to build Primitives at the very least. those should require less resources and less work to build than SLDF level stuff. something on par with a Primative TDR-1C Thunderbolt should be easily within their reach.

i would hope however that they still have some SLDF tech units tooling around to provide backbone to their forces..

Out of curiosity, how close is the Niops Association from Novo Franklin? The fluff says that its only a few light years away & within easy reach. That implies that they're within one or two jumps of each other. Would that mean Novo Franklin is close to the FWL border?

Out of curiosity, how close is the Niops Association from Novo Franklin? The fluff says that its only a few light years away & within easy reach. That implies that they're within one or two jumps of each other. Would that mean Novo Franklin is close to the FWL border?

Novo Franklin and Niops are on opposite sides of the inner sphere, Niops is on the FWL side and Franklin on the Outworlds Alliance/Draconis Combine side.

Novo Franklin and Niops are on opposite sides of the inner sphere, Niops is on the FWL side and Franklin on the Outworlds Alliance/Draconis Combine side.

I am aware that on a 2D map, Niops & Novo Franklin are on opposite sides but the fluff still says that they're within easy reach of each other. Is it possible that under a 3D map, the two systems are closer than they seem?

I am aware that on a 2D map, Niops & Novo Franklin are on opposite sides but the fluff still says that they're within easy reach of each other. Is it possible that under a 3D map, the two systems are closer than they seem?

I am aware that on a 2D map, Niops & Novo Franklin are on opposite sides but the fluff still says that they're within easy reach of each other. Is it possible that under a 3D map, the two systems are closer than they seem?

What background says that? I can't see how changing to a 3-D map is going to bring the systems closer since all you are doing is adding an extra axis, if anything that is going to make them further apart.

Field Manual: Periphery 10982 pg-108 "The Niops Association is just a few light years distant, however, and several of Novo Franklin's city-states actively trade with the tiny power, assuring that resources needed to keep the world and its society functioning are present."

This statement pretty much states that Niops & Novo Franklin are near enough for there to be active trading between the two systems.

That statement is wrong then, even in Periphery 1st edition the two locations were on opposite sides of the inner sphere; maybe they meant another planet rather than Niops or it's just a case of mistaken location but there's no way the two places could be said to be just a few light years apart.

The national government was apparently unable to get its act together until 3097, so it really was a miracle the Space Romans didn't pick us off before then. The new government sounds kind of weak, to be honest, propped up by The Republic (well, until they went away) and Interstellar Expeditions (who now funds nearly half of the NAM's yearly budget). It also seems that the Jihad has reinforced the populations' isolationist streak - not to the point of closed borders, because Niops is more reliant on trade now than ever, but I imagine there's definitely a much stronger anti-foreigner atmosphere than pre-Jihad. Also, it seems like there's growing planetary rivalry between V, VI and VII

The IE thing makes me semi-happy, because, to quote myself:

Quote from: Niopsian

I like the idea of Niops becoming a marshaling point for Interstellar Expeditions missions into the Rimward/Spinward Deep Periphery. It keeps it relevant for the short term and provides a good amount of traffic in and out of the system for trade - which they can use to rebuild infrastructure and/or hire additional defenders.

I'd be happier if it didn't mean we're mostly a banana republic now but I'm so rarely right I'll settle for half a loaf.

The Project Workshop is still gone. Goodbye, hand built 'Mechs of awesomeness. We do have a military academy now, so there's that.

All in all, I'm kind of bummed. I mean, I realize Niops is never going to shake the pillars of the universe or anything, but I will admit I was hoping for more. I'm not asking to be the Canopians, just better than the Fronc Reaches. :P[/spoiler]

IIRC it said they barely have any PA(L)s anymore, and the ones they have are basically stuck guarding important things where they hopefully won't get destroyed, maybe.

OK, picked it up and read through it tonight. I found that section on the NAM especially odd:

"The one bright spot in an otherwise bleak recent history has been the formal addition of infantry forces to the NAM in both unarmored and battle armor alike."

1. Wasn't it always?2. With an equipment rating of D, which would preclude availability of BA, how does that work? Just the token Nighthawks?

"The NAM currently has four squads of the ancient Nighthawk Mk XXI power armor— representing all of the suits left in active service today. These assets are used exclusively to protect the government facilities on Niops VII."

That makes it sound like Niops is the only nation still actively fielding the Nighthawk XXI, but it's still on the Lyrannd Republic lists.

I read it as those 4 squads being all the BA (or at least all the Nighthawks) left in Niops service. As you mentioned, with an ER of D, they shouldn't have BA at all

No, that means they shouldn't use the BA RATs at all. I'm also not especially inclined to take FM3145's statement that minor Periphery factions completely lack access to BA at face value. Among other things, Niops is importing from the Marians. One of the Hegemony's major military exports for years has been the Ravager. Then there's the part where the book itself goes out of its way to mention they still have a handful of Nighthawks. I take that remark more as guidance and an instruction on how to use the RATs.

As far as force availability goes where the MUL is concerned, Niops actually has access to everything on the Periphery General list, or it will once we get the full Dark Age era lists out. We expect players to use their own discretion, creativity, and preferences to guide them when they use the MUL and that goes double for factions that are too small to be tracked at that level.

No, that means they shouldn't use the BA RATs at all. I'm also not especially inclined to take FM3145's statement that minor Periphery factions completely lack access to BA at face value. Among other things, Niops is importing from the Marians. One of the Hegemony's major military exports for years has been the Ravager. Then there's the part where the book itself goes out of its way to mention they still have a handful of Nighthawks. I take that remark more as guidance and an instruction on how to use the RATs.

As far as force availability goes where the MUL is concerned, Niops actually has access to everything on the Periphery General list, or it will once we get the full Dark Age era lists out. We expect players to use their own discretion, creativity, and preferences to guide them when they use the MUL and that goes double for factions that are too small to be tracked at that level.

The option of the Theseus or Asterion (cannot remember which) also exists since it is being exported and the neighboring Canopus also sells the Amazon. Niops makes a good stop on the trade route from the Magistrix to the Rim Commonality (via Astrokrazy) or the Hegemony.

Which happened in 3132 . . . so a bit over twelve years to sell a few to a neighboring trade partner & minor faction who also just happens to be a minor block to the Hegemony. Or given as part of a diplomatic initiative from Canopus.

I am not suggesting battalions of the design, but rather maybe a squad or two.

They already basically are a banana republic for Interstellar Expeditions, who go a huge way towards keeping Niops afloat. Don't be surprised to see that trend either continued or formalized.

IE is the new Explorer Corps and Niops may well be the new Columbus Base. Not sure I have a problem with this.

I'm not confident that IE has the resources to keep all of the rowdy neighbors at bay, though. If I'm going to have house guests for the long term I want ones that will give the Space Romans significant pause.

Although, if we rack up enough outside 'partners' contributing to our defense, we really could become the Babylon 5 of the Inner Sphere. ;)

I'm not confident that IE has the resources to keep all of the rowdy neighbors at bay, though. If I'm going to have house guests for the long term I want ones that will give the Space Romans significant pause.

Although, if we rack up enough outside 'partners' contributing to our defense, we really could become the Babylon 5 of the Inner Sphere. ;)

If I recall correctly, Interstellar Expeditions makes up half of Niops' current governmental budget, which means that, while they may not have direct resources, in terms of factories and the like, to supply Niops, they are the ones bankrolling Niops buying from the open market, where their status as an actual legitimate government will help. Niops also, despite their small size, has a bevy of warm bodies to supply, from scientists to techs to grunt infantrymen to guard IE's scientists and techs.

I also suspect Interstellar Expeditions has deeper pockets than most people realize. They have numerous DropShips and JumpShips they operate (though it looks like they often pay for commercial ship operators on the open market to work for them), and fielded their own Bug-Eye class, before that ship's untimely demise. I seriously need to reread ISP3 to see where their funding comes from.

As for invasion by their neighbors, I don't see it at this point: any internal unrest on Niops isn't spilling over to its neighbors, and the major items of value they had, the Workshops and their scientific knowledge, was either lost to the Marians during the Jihad, nuked by the Blakists, destroyed during their own civil war, or is still being sold cheaply enough on the open market. There's no longer any incentive to invade Niops.

Yup. My current running joke. Since Boondoggles came out is that the the Bright Star ended up the Syrinx AI from FGC Niops. Also, I just think the idea of the ship is cooler than hell, And would be tickled pink if it's still in operation somewhere in canon.

I think Niops will stay independent as it holds a place between Canopus, the Hegemony and FWL . . . Regulans and Anduriens might also have an interest in it staying independent. So yeah, the B5 link does somewhat extend- it should be a great RPG playground due to that nature.

Currently, NAM's got a single regiment of 'Mechs at 85% strength. Given that BattleMechs aren't their primary militia asset, it's entirely possible that Niops is close to pushing three regiments of mainly infantry supported by vehicles on top of that. Their aero assets probably aren't as impressive as the 54 fighters of their old aero regiment.

If the Archer-6W is Taurus model, in terms Nyops Shilone could maybe buy some of the remaining production of the Marian Hegemony Hadrian Plant in Pompeii, the model 3050 manufactured under license from the Outworlds Alliance

Yup. My current running joke. Since Boondoggles came out is that the the Bright Star ended up the Syrinx AI from FGC Niops. Also, I just think the idea of the ship is cooler than hell, And would be tickled pink if it's still in operation somewhere in canon.

Ah memories, I really did want to spin off the New Avalon Catholic Church to secretly battle FGC Niops's Transhumanist.

So, I was thinking, which, as you all know is almost as dangerous as letting chanman think.

As of 3145, Niops has an 85% strength BattleMech regiment, and 'Mechs are considered to be secondary to infantry and vehicles. Presumably, it's like the pre-Jihad days, where Niops fields three to four infantry regiments, most likely with the 'Mechs split between regiments. No exact mention of infantry, vehicle or fighter strength had been made.

So, by 3145, Niops is slowly getting their crap back together. Eventually, they'll either rebuild a Workshop or two, or perhaps a whole factory. It may be some time before you can produce any variety or designs at that point.

So, your goal: choose one to three designs to fill out the NAM. They could be 'Mechs, fighters, battlearmor or vehicles, or even small craft. While Niops may not have lost technical expertise, lower tech will be easier to get production running on.

1. Keep it as simple as possible, by minimizing the number of parts you need, especially big ticket items like fusion engines.

2. Don't go with three 'Mechs, but diversify: build a trooper 'Mech, infantry support vehicle and interceptor/anti-DropShip fighter.

Possibilities:

CRB-27b Crab-- Very solid trooper, strong SLDF theme, but does Niops have the blueprints?Black Wasp robotic aerospace fighter-- Uses the same size engine as the Royal Crab, also uses double heat sinks, uses ERLLs, as does the Crab.-- Difficulty: does Niops have the blueprints? Can you trust them as your frontline ASF?Vehicle: ??? (I can't find anything using a 250 fusion)

Corsair-- Old SLDF bird, solid design, basic in the extreme, yet decent versatility.Swayback or Centurion AL-- Both use the same engine, while the CN9-AL uses a LL backed by MLs.-- Pity there's no LL/ML Swayback.Chaparral Tank-- Same engine, and gives your infantry mobile Arrow IV support.

Let us rule out what you do not need in a mech or vehicle, which might be a way to go . . .

I would also say the vehicle does not have to use a SFE, but might be preferable with ICE- after all they are the defenders and are not as worried about the logistics which is why you use a SFE. With that said . . . I think a LBX armed Po (which could be swapped with a LGR if they could get the prints) or a LBX armed Zhukov would be the best heavy armor option. The armor should be the anvil for the mech's hammer to pound people against.

I like the Crab and heartily endorse its production. But the other end of the mech question is . . . what are they/could they be getting off the Marians, Rim Commonality, Canopians (perhaps Anduriens?) and Regulans? Vehicles would be sort of the same but to a lesser extent. Also do not forget the pre-3140s independent FWL worlds like Kendall and Westover- decent mechs, light armor and aero.

No ML Swayback? Have you forgotten the awesome HBK-4P? I grant it will not have the range to engage anything but . . .

Niops already gets a metric crapton from their neighbors: at the end of the Jihad, the Niops Association Militia was at around 10% strength, and as of 3145, they have an 85% strength 'Mech regiment on top of their mainly infantry/vehicle militia. With no more Workshops, either techs were excellent at battlefield salvage, or nearly everything they currently field was imported.

For Niops, which prided itself on self-sufficiency, that's a frightening concept. I have no doubt that they will eventually want to restart local production of military hardware, but suspect that they're going to be limited in the number of lines they can produce, and I suspect that whatever it is, it will be something Interstellar Expeditions will also find useful.

And, yeah, I remember the HBK-4P, and am quite fond of it. I was referring more to a Hunchback with large lasers (they all have MLs), so it could share weapons with the Corsair: I suspect that whatever Niops fields, they'll reuse parts whenever and wherever they can.

Weapon Carrier, either of the three.Wyvern-5Nsi, same engine.Seydlitz-21b, non-cannon version : ERL, DHS, FA armor, also same engine.

TT

Remind me to reread Liberation of Terra 2 when I get home tonight.

Also, if extended range lasers and the carriers Ferro armor end up being an issue (the Wyvern uses standard armor, even on the 5sl, right?), and if wanting to stick to canon designs, the original Wyvern and Seydlitz, along with the LB-2X Carrier, could work.

First, what sort of tech level are you limiting the NAM to for self-sufficient production? Succession Wars-era cheap & easy like the Filtvelt Coalition or a slow climb back to Royal tech like previous?

Quietly Nyops can build the LBX-2 Carrier, I think Hadrian Industries is manufactured or versions of CA-2 Carrier in Pompey, in terms of models that build the gallery is very extensive model can build some Star League or rescue some of the early Nucleo or older models of the New Dallas

First, what sort of tech level are you limiting the NAM to for self-sufficient production? Succession Wars-era cheap & easy like the Filtvelt Coalition or a slow climb back to Royal tech like previous?

That is inherent in the question, actually: what could Niops build back up to in a reasonable timeframe?

In the old days, Niops was relatively high-tech, but production rates were extremely slow. I'd operate under the assumption that the more advanced the technology in the combat units they produce, the longer it will take.

We don't know the level of civilian casualties suffered during their civil war or the Word of Bake invasion but, in the latter, nukes got lobbed around on their capital world. They may be well below the old number of 19 million, perhaps as low as the 12 million I'd read about for current Randis or New St. Andrews. Both of them started with either industrial or primitive level tech, but, then, neither really had any manufacturing history, either, which Niops did.

In the end, figuring out what tech base is as much an issue as figuring out what units fit your new doctrine.

That is inherent in the question, actually: what could Niops build back up to in a reasonable timeframe?

In the old days, Niops was relatively high-tech, but production rates were extremely slow. I'd operate under the assumption that the more advanced the technology in the combat units they produce, the longer it will take.

We don't know the level of civilian casualties suffered during their civil war or the Word of Bake invasion but, in the latter, nukes got lobbed around on their capital world. They may be well below the old number of 19 million, perhaps as low as the 12 million I'd read about for current Randis or New St. Andrews. Both of them started with either industrial or primitive level tech, but, then, neither really had any manufacturing history, either, which Niops did.

In the end, figuring out what tech base is as much an issue as figuring out what units fit your new doctrine.

For an initial manufacturing venture, I think I'd look at something like a RetroTech security 'Mech. Something around the 15 - 25 ton range.

There's two reasons for this. First, sticking to RetroTech means that all the parts and pieces should be able to be produced locally, which means it's a road map to building a production pipeline for more state of the art hardware later. And it's a simple enough design that it should allow for greater production than one unit per semester. ;)

Secondly, given the undercurrent of unrest and dissatisfaction with the Niops VII government, it gives said government expanded security and crowd control capabilities.

given the undercurrent of unrest and dissatisfaction with the Niops VII government, it gives said government expanded security and crowd control capabilities.

And for that we are good neighbors of the Marian Hegemony?, to spare the population let us relocate the slave, no no no such word, Workers at low budget, better not let us we take them to be divided into 8 or 9 colonies different

For an initial manufacturing venture, I think I'd look at something like a RetroTech security 'Mech. Something around the 15 - 25 ton range.

There's two reasons for this. First, sticking to RetroTech means that all the parts and pieces should be able to be produced locally, which means it's a road map to building a production pipeline for more state of the art hardware later. And it's a simple enough design that it should allow for greater production than one unit per semester. ;)

Secondly, given the undercurrent of unrest and dissatisfaction with the Niops VII government, it gives said government expanded security and crowd control capabilities.

It's a bit outside your mass range, but the Rock Hound and ita variants may be a good choice, especially given the Niops relationship with Interatellar Expeditions. Specifically, Niops could make good use of hordes of Space Hounds for germanium mining, and they could double as local defense and exploration 'Mechs. Eventually you could also use that 160 fusion engine with Locusts, and I'm sure some ASF uses it.

I'm also fond of the primitive WSP-1, which is a decent primitive scout/light combat 'Mech, which would lead to the WSP-1A, which could load specialty SRMs, like tear gas rounds.

It's a bit outside your mass range, but the Rock Hound and ita variants may be a good choice, especially given the Niops relationship with Interatellar Expeditions. Specifically, Niops could make good use of hordes of Space Hounds for germanium mining, and they could double as local defense and exploration 'Mechs. Eventually you could also use that 160 fusion engine with Locusts, and I'm sure some ASF uses it.

I'm also fond of the primitive WSP-1, which is a decent primitive scout/light combat 'Mech, which would lead to the WSP-1A, which could load specialty SRMs, like tear gas rounds.

Then to answer the production question I will split it for each of the 3 choices as well as taking Niops current and possible future tech levels into consideration:

Aerospace - This is essential for system defense, so one of the 3 choices must be a fighter. Lowtech AND hightech choice: Lightning. The AC/20 and MLs make it good warning for any incoming hostile ships or strafing in support of ground troops. When Niops reclaims SL tech level, the Royal Lightning receives a massive boost in range and accuracy. It is also bog standard, easy to maintain and not a faction-specific restricted unit.

Battlesuit - Tanks might be easier to produce and replace, but battlesuits are more versatile and for population control. I think the Fa Shih is the ideal choice for Niops. Not only is it lower on the tech level than the later generation suits, the mines allow it to do a lot of damage to invaders and the modular weapons make it versatile for population control/defense/offense. It's low armor would be murder in IS combat, but 7 pts is very good against the most common weapons fielded by Periphery opponents, especially MLs. However, I suggested this battlesuit almost because of its most useful feature, Mag Clamps, which brings us to the third choice of unit for production:

Mech - Enforcer. While it may lack indirect fire capability it has jump jets and is a good all-round 'Mech. The basic Enforcer is good for lowtech production, but if Niops upgrades to SL tech levels again the Enforcer has some good variants from the -5D and III lines. The most important thing is the mobility allows it to ferry the Mag Clamp Fa Shihs around the battlefield while allowing the Niops military to operate fully integrated among all 3 suggested units and eliminating most terrain restrictions that would limit a tank force.

Side Note: Turns out the Space Hound drops both SRM-4s from its Rock Hound progenitor, and replaces them with a single small laser. The rest of the mass is eaten by environmental sealing, a ton of cargo, and fuel for the jump jet.

Then to answer the production question I will split it for each of the 3 choices as well as taking Niops current and possible future tech levels into consideration:

Aerospace - This is essential for system defense, so one of the 3 choices must be a fighter. Lowtech AND hightech choice: Lightning. The AC/20 and MLs make it good warning for any incoming hostile ships or strafing in support of ground troops. When Niops reclaims SL tech level, the Royal Lightning receives a massive boost in range and accuracy. It is also bog standard, easy to maintain and not a faction-specific restricted unit.

Damn, that's a good choice: it's also got a primitive AC/10 version if they need to ramp up to intro tech.

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Battlesuit - Tanks might be easier to produce and replace, but battlesuits are more versatile and for population control. I think the Fa Shih is the ideal choice for Niops. Not only is it lower on the tech level than the later generation suits, the mines allow it to do a lot of damage to invaders and the modular weapons make it versatile for population control/defense/offense. It's low armor would be murder in IS combat, but 7 pts is very good against the most common weapons fielded by Periphery opponents, especially MLs. However, I suggested this battlesuit almost because of its most useful feature, Mag Clamps, which brings us to the third choice of unit for production:

This one's interesting, and would be ideal...but would the Magistracy or Capellans be willing to part with the blueprints? MUL lists them as Cappie only, though they're on the RAT for the Magistracy as of 3145, so I'm sure they have the plans by then. But, while they're old, they're also very xin sheng, so I don't know if they'd give Niops the plans.

Also...that xin sheng is a double-edged sword. It might be a useful symbol to bolster the underclass of Capellan descent on Niops, but may also flare up pro-Capellan (thus anti-Niops) sentiment.

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Mech - Enforcer. While it may lack indirect fire capability it has jump jets and is a good all-round 'Mech. The basic Enforcer is good for lowtech production, but if Niops upgrades to SL tech levels again the Enforcer has some good variants from the -5D and III lines. The most important thing is the mobility allows it to ferry the Mag Clamp Fa Shihs around the battlefield while allowing the Niops military to operate fully integrated among all 3 suggested units and eliminating most terrain restrictions that would limit a tank force.

I agree a 50-ton 4/6/4 'Mech that shares the 200-rating engine from the Lightning would be perfect. I'm worried about whether or not Niops could get the plans, though. Pity we never saw the original SLDF version (which was unbuilt blueprints) with twin medium lasers instead of the single large laser.

ASF: Rapier. A great old SLDF standby, with a Royal version if they advance the tech alongBA: I'd go for the Infilitartor II (Magnetic). It may not have soe of the functionality of the Fa Shih, and has slightly less armor, but the Stealth, ECM, and MagShot are a great combo with many advantages over the Fa Shih in other areas.Mech: If you're wanting engine commonality with the ASF, you have to take a 4/6 85 tonner. So I'd take the BattleMaster. It's got tons of variants to choose from, a gun for every situation, from MGs to a PPC, an SRM-6 with 2 tons of ammo for fun with different loads, etc etc. Even a couple of Royal variant if you progress that far. That said, I'd forget about engine commonality and go for a Black Knight, myself. I'm big on durable flashbulbs. No ammo, standard engine, several variants to choose from including a Royal, god speed, a good mech for commanders, battlefists for additional utility off the battlefield, and it's not an assault mech, which is probably a selling point as far as resource-intensiveness goes.

Damn, that's a good choice: it's also got a primitive AC/10 version if they need to ramp up to intro tech.

Exactly. Too bad specialty ammo cant be used in aero fights.

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This one's interesting, and would be ideal...but would the Magistracy or Capellans be willing to part with the blueprints? MUL lists them as Cappie only, though they're on the RAT for the Magistracy as of 3145, so I'm sure they have the plans by then. But, while they're old, they're also very xin sheng, so I don't know if they'd give Niops the plans.

Also...that xin sheng is a double-edged sword. It might be a useful symbol to bolster the underclass of Capellan descent on Niops, but may also flare up pro-Capellan (thus anti-Niops) sentiment.

Just capture a few Fa Shih/buy them in the black market and reverse-engineer them. As for the name, they can just change it to Invoker or something to avoid the nationalist connotations.

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I agree a 50-ton 4/6/4 'Mech that shares the 200-rating engine from the Lightning would be perfect. I'm worried about whether or not Niops could get the plans, though. Pity we never saw the original SLDF version (which was unbuilt blueprints) with twin medium lasers instead of the single large laser.

You make a good point with the engine commonality. Niops should be able to license the plans. Afterall the Marians could get access to the Centurion plans. I thought the original SLDF version turned out to be the Enfield?

As a note, I deliberately avoided heavier designs because of the added logistical burden(which I don't think a nation like Niops can handle efficiently if their entire army becomes heavyweight) as well as the slower rate of production that could hamper replacing battlefield losses. Afterall, Niops is not looking for conquest. What they want is sufficient numbers and strength to act as a strong deterrent to would-be invaders/raiders that would make them go elsewhere for easier pickings.

I'm trying to remember if we opened that up to discussion for TacOps/StratOps, or just proceeded to run screaming into the hills of Montana to hide in a cabin if anyone even mentioned the concept.

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Just capture a few Fa Shih/buy them in the black market and reverse-engineer them. As for the name, they can just change it to Invoker or something to avoid the nationalist connotations.

I wonder...would that work for the Kanazuchi?

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You make a good point with the engine commonality. Niops should be able to license the plans. Afterall the Marians could get access to the Centurion plans. I thought the original SLDF version turned out to be the Enfield?

Nope. Different beasties. The Enforcer blueprints were found in 2777, and put into production. The Enfield was found in 2870, and couldn't be produced for much later. There were strong similarities, though.

As for standardization, it does have a downside: you run the risk of production bottlenecks if there's a problem with any one component. Take the Black Knight/Eagle combo. Both use the 300 Vlar, both use standard armor and heat sinks, both use large and medium lasers, and there's even a Marik version of the dumbed-down BL7-KNT that swaps the PPC out for another large laser.

What happens if the fusion plant gets damaged in a raid? Or the large laser plant?

One answer might be that it might be better to put one production group on each planet: one fusion engine, one ASF/'Mech/vehicle produced that use it. While that means dividing up your forces, you have to do that to garrison each world anyway.

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As a note, I deliberately avoided heavier designs because of the added logistical burden(which I don't think a nation like Niops can handle efficiently if their entire army becomes heavyweight) as well as the slower rate of production that could hamper replacing battlefield losses. Afterall, Niops is not looking for conquest. What they want is sufficient numbers and strength to act as a strong deterrent to would-be invaders/raiders that would make them go elsewhere for easier pickings.

Yep, pretty much. The biggest problem Niops has is that, even at Star League tech levels, the rest of the Inner Sphere has long since surpassed their tech base.

I'm trying to remember if we opened that up to discussion for TacOps/StratOps, or just proceeded to run screaming into the hills of Montana to hide in a cabin if anyone even mentioned the concept.

It would be the only way to save the ACs from irrelevancy in fighter combat...

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I wonder...would that work for the Kanazuchi?

Yes it would. Afterall the Germans just took those Czech tanks from Sudetenland and changed them to Panzer 35/38(t).

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Nope. Different beasties. The Enforcer blueprints were found in 2777, and put into production. The Enfield was found in 2870, and couldn't be produced for much later. There were strong similarities, though.

As for standardization, it does have a downside: you run the risk of production bottlenecks if there's a problem with any one component. Take the Black Knight/Eagle combo. Both use the 300 Vlar, both use standard armor and heat sinks, both use large and medium lasers, and there's even a Marik version of the dumbed-down BL7-KNT that swaps the PPC out for another large laser.

What happens if the fusion plant gets damaged in a raid? Or the large laser plant?

One answer might be that it might be better to put one production group on each planet: one fusion engine, one ASF/'Mech/vehicle produced that use it. While that means dividing up your forces, you have to do that to garrison each world anyway.

I see. I wouldn't worry about the original Enforcer anyways, with all the great variants.

But I think the benefits of standardization far outweighs diversification for a beginner army. Field repairs and training the techs are made easier. Of course, once Niops becomes sufficiently advanced again, diversification would be a good thing.

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Yep, pretty much. The biggest problem Niops has is that, even at Star League tech levels, the rest of the Inner Sphere has long since surpassed their tech base.

It's alright. They can always buy Savage Wolves or Mad Dog IVs from the Sea Foxes if they wanna get serious ;D

Yup. But analyzing this from the Canopian perspective, granting Niops an Amazon production license would:

a) pump more cash in the Canopians' famous "money goes" economyb) prop up a faction in the area to restrict neoLeague & Marian influencec) the fact that Niops has no expansionist desires would prevent any blowback of this policyd) improve Niops-Canopian relations and open up more trade/scientific exchanges

The way I see it(from a Canopian perspective), this is a win-win situation

Good point on the Magistracy. You can even argue there are benefits to Niops having a large population of Capellan-descended citizens, though, again, that opens up other cans of worms depending on what the 3145 era balance of power is between the upper and lower classes.

You know, if Niops does begin local production of the Space Hound to support their germanium mining efforts and supply Interstellar Expeditions, they could also put that fusion plant to use on another design: the Mercury. That'd give them a scout unit with an old-school SLDF feel.

I see. I wouldn't worry about the original Enforcer anyways, with all the great variants.

But I think the benefits of standardization far outweighs diversification for a beginner army. Field repairs and training the techs are made easier. Of course, once Niops becomes sufficiently advanced again, diversification would be a good thing.

Another benefit of the 200-rating fusion engines on the Lightning ASF & Enforcer (or Centurion, or Hunchback), is that it opens the door to two vehicles to support your armor and infantry corps, which Niops is placing more emphasis on these days, anyway: the Chaparral, with its Arrow IV launcher to provide the NAM with some artillery...and the Myrmidon, which I'd completely forgotten existed, since I haven't seen my copy of TR3060 in ages (I'd never replaced the dead tree version with a PDF). At 40 tons, moving 5/8, with a PPC and SRM-6, and 9 tons of armor, it's a decent choice to use as a main battle tank for Niops.

Maybe Lightnings, Myrmidons and Chaparrals, backed by Whitworths and Mercurys/Locusts, with Space Hounds going to keep the mines open and sales to Interstellar Expeditions.

Good point on the Magistracy. You can even argue there are benefits to Niops having a large population of Capellan-descended citizens, though, again, that opens up other cans of worms depending on what the 3145 era balance of power is between the upper and lower classes.

Yeah, you probably don't want the Capellans to add Niops to their list of "ancestral worlds to reclaim".

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Ah, yes, the fusion-powered Porsche 928 that masses as much as an IFV This design could only come from SLDF procurement. ;)

I always wondered how such a car could get past weight sensors or something to be a spy car.

Another benefit of the 200-rating fusion engines on the Lightning ASF & Enforcer (or Centurion, or Hunchback), is that it opens the door to two vehicles to support your armor and infantry corps, which Niops is placing more emphasis on these days, anyway: the Chaparral, with its Arrow IV launcher to provide the NAM with some artillery...and the Myrmidon, which I'd completely forgotten existed, since I haven't seen my copy of TR3060 in ages (I'd never replaced the dead tree version with a PDF). At 40 tons, moving 5/8, with a PPC and SRM-6, and 9 tons of armor, it's a decent choice to use as a main battle tank for Niops.

Maybe Lightnings, Myrmidons and Chaparrals, backed by Whitworths and Mercurys/Locusts, with Space Hounds going to keep the mines open and sales to Interstellar Expeditions.

All very good choices. Especially Chaparral and Myrmidon. Mercury...too undergunned. Better go for the Locusts.

I wonder if they put their effort on military tech instead of astronomy, would the Niops eggheads be able to figure out Clantech-level infrastructure/production? All that Star League-level knowledge and education has to give an edge...and there was no mention of the Blakists targeting any Niops academics during their occupation

Yeah, you probably don't want the Capellans to add Niops to their list of "ancestral worlds to reclaim".

I honestly don't think Xin Sheng would work well on Niops' Capellan refugee descendents. I've come to imagine them as being more Tikonov Commonality based for some reason, so the overtly Han-centric cultural overtones in Xin Sheng really wouldn't appeal, and at this point all they know about the Confederation is that it was someplace great-grandma and great-grandpa really didn't want to be anymore.

But I can definitely see God Empress Ilsa Centrella-Liao wanting to exert her influence, since it is relatively near her ever-expanding realm... ;)

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All very good choices. Especially Chaparral and Myrmidon. Mercury...too undergunned. Better go for the Locusts.

I have a sentimental attachment to the Locust as it was the first mini I ever acquired.

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I wonder if they put their effort on military tech instead of astronomy, would the Niops eggheads be able to figure out Clantech-level infrastructure/production? All that Star League-level knowledge and education has to give an edge...and there was no mention of the Blakists targeting any Niops academics during their occupation

The Blakists were mostly after minerals and usable materials, which would mean Niops V. The nuke that went off in the capital would likely have done considerable damage to the main research facilities, as they grew up around the initial colony on Niops VII (or vice versa, actually).

But one would think that Niops might be able to do some interesting things with lasers, what with their expertise with optics. :)

Yeah, you probably don't want the Capellans to add Niops to their list of "ancestral worlds to reclaim".

I always wondered how such a car could get past weight sensors or something to be a spy car.

All very good choices. Especially Chaparral and Myrmidon. Mercury...too undergunned. Better go for the Locusts.

I wonder if they put their effort on military tech instead of astronomy, would the Niops eggheads be able to figure out Clantech-level infrastructure/production? All that Star League-level knowledge and education has to give an edge...and there was no mention of the Blakists targeting any Niops academics during their occupation

Intro-Tech Mercury is armed just as well as any Intro-tech Locust, so there's not much to argue against it

Yeah, you probably don't want the Capellans to add Niops to their list of "ancestral worlds to reclaim".

Especially given so many of their citizens' ancestors ran screaming from the Capellan Confederation in the first place?

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I always wondered how such a car could get past weight sensors or something to be a spy car.

Weight of the safety gear mandated by the Star League Highway Transportation Safety Administration to all cars.

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All very good choices. Especially Chaparral and Myrmidon. Mercury...too undergunned. Better go for the Locusts.

I wonder if they put their effort on military tech instead of astronomy, would the Niops eggheads be able to figure out Clantech-level infrastructure/production? All that Star League-level knowledge and education has to give an edge...and there was no mention of the Blakists targeting any Niops academics during their occupation

Some of it? Possibly. That doesn't mesm they'd have the industrial refinement to build any of it... and they certainly wouldn't want to advertise the fact if they could.

I honestly don't think Xin Sheng would work well on Niops' Capellan refugee descendents. I've come to imagine them as being more Tikonov Commonality based for some reason, so the overtly Han-centric cultural overtones in Xin Sheng really wouldn't appeal, and at this point all they know about the Confederation is that it was someplace great-grandma and great-grandpa really didn't want to be anymore.

But I can definitely see God Empress Ilsa Centrella-Liao wanting to exert her influence, since it is relatively near her ever-expanding realm... ;)

So, more Russian than Chinese?

And, yeah, attracting the attention of any of the nationalistic expansionistic groups would be... bad for Niops.

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I have a sentimental attachment to the Locust as it was the first mini I ever acquired.

Mine was the Phoenix Hawk. :)

The reason I suggested the Mercury over the Locust is threefold:

1. While the SLDF used Locusts, so did everyone else. The Mercury was a rarer bird, and one the Militia may consider superior to the Locust, since it was originally slated to be its replacement. Even a lowtech -98 may be seen as superior.

2. The Mercury has hands, which makes it useful for combat engineering tasks. In a way, it can replace Wasps and Stingers because of this, as well, despite the lack of jump jets, especially because of:

3. With its modular weapons and equipment, it's one step shy of being a true OmniMech, and the fluff for the MCY-99 implies ComStar and WoB largely used it like one. I can't see it as being far off from turning into a true Omni, which would make for a neat homegrown Niops design.

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The Blakists were mostly after minerals and usable materials, which would mean Niops V. The nuke that went off in the capital would likely have done considerable damage to the main research facilities, as they grew up around the initial colony on Niops VII (or vice versa, actually).

But one would think that Niops might be able to do some interesting things with lasers, what with their expertise with optics. :)

Which is a good point, actually. It also makes me wonder how Niops could pray its knowledge elf radio telescopes to battlefield usage, and what other scientific research Niops does: particle physics, for example?

Also, was most of the mining on Niops V? I've seen conflicting sources on Workshop locations (or, more likely, they had Workshops on both V and VI at minimum), but the only clear indicator I've seen of locations for mining was the space mining they're doing with Interstellar Operations.

Yep, it's great...if you can build them. With Niops having to rebuild the workshops from scratch, odds are they're not going to immediately going to be able to jump to building SLDF Royal BattleMechs. In fact, unless we've got confirmation that they had, at one point, built the Rapier or Ironsides, we can't even be sure pre-Jihad that Niops could build double heat sinks: they weren't necessary for the Black Knight or Highlander.

Anyone got Field Manual Periphery handy? That had the most detailed writeup on Niops designs in use by NAM, and I can't find my dead tree copy.

I honestly don't think Xin Sheng would work well on Niops' Capellan refugee descendents. I've come to imagine them as being more Tikonov Commonality based for some reason, so the overtly Han-centric cultural overtones in Xin Sheng really wouldn't appeal, and at this point all they know about the Confederation is that it was someplace great-grandma and great-grandpa really didn't want to be anymore.

Russian eh? I have no idea how to make of that...seems a bit far for the Russians to journey seeing as they are concentrated in the Tikonov region

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Especially given so many of their citizens' ancestors ran screaming from the Capellan Confederation in the first place?

Well, there's that second-class treatment and the Xin Sheng stuff to rile them up..

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Indeed, and it has hands. Armor placement is a bit wonky, though.

I suggested the Locust because it has a lot of low-tech varieties like the RL version -1V2 and there would be plenty of spare parts to repair it with either from native sources or enemy salvage.

. . . we can't even be sure pre-Jihad that Niops could build double heat sinks: they weren't necessary for the Black Knight or Highlander.

. . . the Royal does . . . which I would be inclined to say they have considering the Nighthawk. Even then, they are a bunch of eggheads, they should have been able to do the math for the efficiency increase.

Yep, it's great...if you can build them. With Niops having to rebuild the workshops from scratch, odds are they're not going to immediately going to be able to jump to building SLDF Royal BattleMechs. In fact, unless we've got confirmation that they had, at one point, built the Rapier or Ironsides, we can't even be sure pre-Jihad that Niops could build double heat sinks: they weren't necessary for the Black Knight or Highlander.

Anyone got Field Manual Periphery handy? That had the most detailed writeup on Niops designs in use by NAM, and I can't find my dead tree copy.

It only mentions the Highlander, Black Knight and Burke by name. But in the rules annex it does say that the NAM rolls on the ComStar column in the BMR Inner Sphere table.

Everybody but the Cappies, Canopians and Dracs would be saying that ;)

Which is why I suspect our little intellectual exercise here won't go far if and when the Powers That Be decide Niops begins manufacturing military hardware again.

If we're lucky, we'll start up production of the BNC-1E, or manage to buy the surplus tooling for the MSK-5S Mackie (the PPC + LL + AC/5 prototype one) the Lyrans used during the Jihad then mothballed afterwards.

If not... well, it's a toss-up between the WSP-1 or the SHD-1R, I'd wager. Good thing people are still selling us 'Mechs right now, eh?

At least the AC5 has alternate munitions for use.. the Patron has no such redeemable feature

Yup.

I find it funny that Niops has appeared to have abandoned the idea of domestic production of major military hardware, one of the things that made them unique among the various tiny Periphery factions, at the same time both Randis and New St. Andrews have initiated theirs, then continued to expand in terms of both number and quality of designs.

or perhaps some of the tools and equipment found in the shops was still unrecovered Lostech, and they got damaged/destroyed to the point they can't really make the parts they need any more. Niops had the problem of not really having an infrastructure.. if they lost their star league era tools, they have little to fall back on. in order to do domestic production again, they'd have to build an infrastrucuture from virtually the ground up.. they'd have to get the tools that build the tools that build the tools.

and if some of their old success was due to having special tools no one else did.. well they might never recover their old abilities. and it doesn't help they are one system with limited resources and no real profitable exports. (the scientific data they'd collected over centuries being an exception.. but that was certainly a one time thing.)

A Nyops has left the baggage of knowledge of star systems not visited by its neighbors, might get some resources for negotiating these systems manufactured by little, clear that the data should checked after the state informed and receive the data might not display according to these systems but could start with that

or perhaps some of the tools and equipment found in the shops was still unrecovered Lostech, and they got damaged/destroyed to the point they can't really make the parts they need any more. Niops had the problem of not really having an infrastructure.. if they lost their star league era tools, they have little to fall back on. in order to do domestic production again, they'd have to build an infrastrucuture from virtually the ground up.. they'd have to get the tools that build the tools that build the tools.

and if some of their old success was due to having special tools no one else did.. well they might never recover their old abilities. and it doesn't help they are one system with limited resources and no real profitable exports. (the scientific data they'd collected over centuries being an exception.. but that was certainly a one time thing.)

I'm not sure they're not still selling scientific research, though the Niops government does have half its income coming from germanium mining at this point. Also, they had the funds to round out 'Mech regiment (well, 85% of one), plus their infantry/vehicle regiments (which are still the majority of NAM).

As of Field Manual 3085, the Militia was down to two battalions of 'Mechs (one scattered one that survived the Blakist invasion, and one presumably rebuilt from salvage), and two aerospace squadrons. That would have given them around 72 'Mechs and 12 fighters. The 85% strength figure in Field Manual 3145 implies 92 'Mechs, if no command company is attached, or 102 if it is, so assuming no attrition of 'Mechs between 3085 and 3145, Niops only bought between 18 and 30 'Mechs. Not as much as I thought, actually.

One interesting thing to consider is that 'Mech losses for Niops were around 75%, and aerospace losses around 78%. Considering they fielded four regiments (one battalion of 'Mechs per regiment, the rest infantry and vehicles) of ground forces, then less than a company of non-'Mech forces survived the Blakist invasion. Those limited numbers of Nighthawks guarding Niops VII's governmental buildings? Yeah, their original wearers might have been the only infantry to make it through the invasion. In light of that, I find it puzzling that Niops is focusing on infantry and vehicles, given how badly they took it in the shorts.

But, yes, I expect that, if Niops does start building new 'Mechs, they'll either have to buy the whole production line and tooling lock, stock and barrel, and may still have to start with Primitives, simply because their lower tech base requires less high-tech tooling and production. Buying the MSK-5S Mackie line from the Lyrans may be very attractive, then.

well, my point is that scientific research is hardly a big money item.. odds are the reason they got so much that first time was because it was several centuries in one package.. year by year sales as they go on isn't likely to bring as much in. maybe enough to do upkeep on what they have but not really enough to rebuild a whole infrastructure.

To rebuild infrastructure, or build almost from scratch requires an inverter ... maybe Interstellar Expeditions interested in investing in some minor factory for making or repairing vehicles and mechs, may seem small but it's a start.

I can almost guarantee that Interstellar Expeditions could use more Rock Hounds: they're one if the major backers of the design. And Niops could certainly use its variant, the Space Hound, for its own asteroid mining. Given how in bed Niops is with Interstellar Expeditions these days, that would be a likely production line.

Besides a ship dropship for asteroid mining could serve not only Nyops , but finding buyers in both the Marian Hegemony and beyond, I think that both ATC , as Marian Arms have their own subsidiaries in charge of mining and mining I can assure you asteroidal is something they do and seek to expand , following the edicts of extension of exploitation of the late Cesar Cassius

Perhaps Niops is focusing on infantry and armor because they have no other choice financially and industrially? They are a 3-planet system and their meager income does have to feed all those mouths. Military budgets have never taken up the majority slice of a country's budget, and Niops wasn't that militaristic to begin with.

That said, what was the production rate of the Nighthawks like when Niops was building them in the 3060s? Was a total force strength of the armors given in an SB?

It would be interesting to Nyops first focalize on what more can be produced, armor and Battlearmor, the DropShip for commercial operation of mining Nyops can serve both for export and export as extra income is money. As I said above again, the Government of Nyops would have to open the possibility to migrate to other states in the periphery to the mass population that complicates life. The problem is if the technicians want to migrate for a job offer better pay.

It is possible, could agree with the Marian Hegemony or whoever it a controlled immigration (and incidentally the Marian Hegemony sends them to establish colonies along with other citizens of the Hegemony ) , in terms of technical flee a way that would not agree with peripheral nations scientific exchange program so the technicians and scientists from Nyops see other things and when returning home may apply . the risk that is great if , but only Nyops is going to look to Cuba at any time Marian Hegemony and Rim Comonality and we will look Miami or the Florida Keys receive refugees escaped

The Hegemony would benefit from this kind of program far more than Niops though...it's like the refugee Byzantine scholars helping to start the Renaissance when they fled to Italy after the Fall of Constantinople.

The Hegemony would benefit from this kind of program far more than Niops though...it's like the refugee Byzantine scholars helping to start the Renaissance when they fled to Italy after the Fall of Constantinople.

It's a possibility, maybe both Nyops as Marian Hegemony or another state will benefit from this exchange but Nyops would receive in exchange decompression some social and some autochthonous production lines for defense

But it also depends on the nature of IE's relationship with Niops. If it's some kind of corporate state like Irian, I doubt those scholars want to go back to an exploited home and I don't know if IE will accept Marian aid to Niops.

But it also depends on the nature of IE's relationship with Niops. If it's some kind of corporate state like Irian, I doubt those scholars want to go back to an exploited home and I don't know if IE will accept Marian aid to Niops.

That is another issue IE friendship never showed any by Marian Hegemony could curry favor with the Marians bringing a pair of coordinates systems that are not busy living near our borders, but we dodge ostensibly have a base in New St Andrews and one in Nyops. Bone could be more easily easily spare the Marian Hegemony, but seems to want to exploit small states

But it also depends on the nature of IE's relationship with Niops. If it's some kind of corporate state like Irian, I doubt those scholars want to go back to an exploited home and I don't know if IE will accept Marian aid to Niops.

Considering the Niops brain drain would have most likely been caused by the Marian raiding and looting of the Niops V Workshop (where the Nighthawk was produced), along with the capture of personnel there... after which the Marianas began producing the Ravaged, their first homegrown battlearmor design?

Personally, it makes little sense to me for Niops to want to get buddy-buddy with a nation that looted them and took their citizens for slaves.

Perhaps Niops is focusing on infantry and armor because they have no other choice financially and industrially? They are a 3-planet system and their meager income does have to feed all those mouths. Military budgets have never taken up the majority slice of a country's budget, and Niops wasn't that militaristic to begin with.

That said, what was the production rate of the Nighthawks like when Niops was building them in the 3060s? Was a total force strength of the armors given in an SB?

The production rate was never spelled out. The main mention comes from Tech Readout 3075, which spelled out that they were built in Niops Project Workshop III on Niops V, that they were built out of concern regarding the belligerence of neighboring Periphery states, that they built both the XXI and XXII, and that a "swarm" of Nighthawks took down a Marian Starslayer and caused the rest of the raiders to break and run.

Jihad Hotspots 3072 talks briefly about the raid, and describes the Workshop there as being an automated plant that produced military hardware then stored in warehouses, and that the initial Marian raid was seeking to loot the warehouses.

I've not been able to find the sourcebook detailing the successful follow-up Marian raid, though. JHS3076 details the Niops Civil War, Field Report Periphery reports the Workshops destroyed, and NAM holding out against the Blakists on Niops V, with Jihad Final Reckoning detailing the damage a bit more. Don't have time to look farther, though, right now.

Considering the Niops brain drain would have most likely been caused by the Marian raiding and looting of the Niops V Workshop (where the Nighthawk was produced), along with the capture of personnel there... after which the Marianas began producing the Ravaged, their first homegrown battlearmor design?

Personally, it makes little sense to me for Niops to want to get buddy-buddy with a nation that looted them and took their citizens for slaves.

What the Incursion of 3072 was made by the Legio VI and was where Nyops use in combat for the first time in a significant number of Nighthawk, the Next incursion Marian was passed in 3079 and I think the background of the Ravager says that built a scientist and his team who were looking for work and were refugees from Irian, so I think in that at least we had nothing to doEven the plant d layback of the Marian Hegemony was half-finished or finished and was a research facility of BattleArmor that had built in Horatius WOB. After his expulsion by Julius the plant remained closed and guarded by the MHAF until Marian Arms Inc and this group of scientists from Irian put to work and built the Ravager and then the Marauder

And how does that change the fact that the Marians raided the Workshops on Niops V, looted them, possibly burned down whatever they couldn't move, and grabbed whatever scientists and techs they could find?

And how does that change the fact that the Marians raided the Workshops on Niops V, looted them, possibly burned down whatever they couldn't move, and grabbed whatever scientists and techs they could find?

Humm that book says that? What I lei from the incursion of 3072 says that took ifnormacion and some equipment but not people, what you mention this not will have been WOB? When and make the next incursion MHAF had no defenses and plundered there if that consciousness, has been almost 60 or 65 years of that incursion to the current timeline, if the Marian Hegemony change of attitude to some of its neighbors not Nyops could also think? After all I think there are also Nyops students in the new Collegium bellorum

Humm that book says that? What I lei from the incursion of 3072 says that took ifnormacion and some equipment but not people, what you mention this not will have been WOB? When and make the next incursion MHAF had no defenses and plundered there if that consciousness, has been almost 60 or 65 years of that incursion to the current timeline, if the Marian Hegemony change of attitude to some of its neighbors not Nyops could also think? After all I think there are also Nyops students in the new Collegium bellorum

Jihad Final Reckoning, page 57. Exact date was August 19, 3077.

And, given that Niops has protesters outside the unstaffed Republic embassy, and are paranoid about theirFWL*, why in the name of Cthulhu would they be any less paranoid about the Marians? Isolationism and paranoia is the name of the game in Niops these days, and I suspect the only reason Interstellar Expeditions is tolerated is because they're a scientific-minded non-governmental organization, and thus the lesser of all evils.

And, given that Niops has protesters outside the unstaffed Republic embassy, and are paranoid about theirFWL*, why in the name of Cthulhu would they be any less paranoid about the Marians? Isolationism and paranoia is the name of the game in Niops these days, and I suspect the only reason Interstellar Expeditions is tolerated is because they're a scientific-minded non-governmental organization, and thus the lesser of all evils.

As you put that is in 3077, I wonder if in 3145 famine, internal revolts and the lack of prospects have made them more open-minded

As you put that is in 3077, I wonder if in 3145 famine, internal revolts and the lack of prospects have made them more open-minded

Actually, Niops being unwelcoming to outsiders, and protesting outside the Republic embassy, the only actual embassy in the Niops Association, is as late as 3145, per page 187 of Field Manual 3145. The most contact with outsiders is clearly stated to be Interstellar Expeditions.

The only mention of relations between the Niops Association and the Marian Hegemony as of 3145 is that Niops must import military hardware from the Marians, Lyrans and former FWL states. Given that Niops is simultaneously paranoid about an FWL invasion, that does not indicate that Niops has good, peaceful relations with either the Marians or the FWL states.

Further, there is no mention of Niops Association citizens at the Marian academy. Instead, there is emphasis on Niops opening the Central Military School on Niops VII.

In fact, to quote page 199 of Field Manual 3145:

Quote

The NAM has seen little growth or change in its BattleMech forces since the end of the Jihad. With the failure of the Niops central government, and the predations of the Marian Hegemony, any combat experience gained by the Association’s Militia was lost through sheer attrition. The one bright spot in an otherwise bleak recent history has been the formal addition of infantry forces to the NAM in both unarmored and battle armor alike. The NAM currently has four squads of the ancient Nighthawk Mk XXI power armor— representing all of the suits left in active service today. These assets are used exclusively to protect the government facilities on Niops VII.

I don't see how that situation would make anyone in the Niops Association feel warm and fuzzy towards the Marian Hegemony. Feel heartburn? Sure. Warm and fuzzy? Doubt it.

Actually, Niops being unwelcoming to outsiders, and protesting outside the Republic embassy, the only actual embassy in the Niops Association, is as late as 3145, per page 187 of Field Manual 3145. The most contact with outsiders is clearly stated to be Interstellar Expeditions.

The only mention of relations between the Niops Association and the Marian Hegemony as of 3145 is that Niops must import military hardware from the Marians, Lyrans and former FWL states. Given that Niops is simultaneously paranoid about an FWL invasion, that does not indicate that Niops has good, peaceful relations with either the Marians or the FWL states.

Further, there is no mention of Niops Association citizens at the Marian academy. Instead, there is emphasis on Niops opening the Central Military School on Niops VII.

In fact, to quote page 199 of Field Manual 3145:

I don't see how that situation would make anyone in the Niops Association feel warm and fuzzy towards the Marian Hegemony. Feel heartburn? Sure. Warm and fuzzy? Doubt it.

Well, well the move to the isolated Stay right category and join pieces when it explodes all for the social situation, and continue selling them what they want to buy clear

I doubt if left alone too strategic position, if at least nyops sell us the location of some system living near our border into the deep periphery, perhaps the Marian Hegemony government could talk to the ATC, now they are on a expansion throughout the area maybe want to put a factory there

I got the impression that the Marian Battle Armor program got its start because of the Irian refugees. Looting the warehouses and making off with Nighthawks is one thing, but as pointed out the Nighthawk factory was automated so any captive techs or scientists would be of little use. The most important point is the Nighthawk is a PA(L) with cutting edge armor on the lowest end of the weight classes while what eventually emerged from the Marian effort was a basic armor on the heaviest end of the weight class with none of the features of a Nighthawk.

I seriously doubt the Marians actually gained any know-how from the raid.

It's what I was commenting, armor developed by the Marian Hegemony in Horatius are Assault and Heavy armor, nothing as stylized as the Nighthawk, recently in the years of 3099 onwards we will see if they do something like the ATC in Illyria but I think I own designs anything that comes from the Raid

I got the impression that the Marian Battle Armor program got its start because of the Irian refugees. Looting the warehouses and making off with Nighthawks is one thing, but as pointed out the Nighthawk factory was automated so any captive techs or scientists would be of little use. The most important point is the Nighthawk is a PA(L) with cutting edge armor on the lowest end of the weight classes while what eventually emerged from the Marian effort was a basic armor on the heaviest end of the weight class with none of the features of a Nighthawk.

I seriously doubt the Marians actually gained any know-how from the raid.

I can see that.

That said, I still can't see Niops being terribly friendly towards the Marians.

Agreed. If one has been isolated for so long, they can't help but being xenophobic towards others, especially after suffering many raids from the Hegemony. Still, the trade ties should smooth relations somewhat

Xenophobia is probably higher than it's been in centuries in Niops these days. Acts of violence towards FWL refugees back in the 3080s is a good sign of that, as are the protests outside the Republic embassy.

But, no, it also isn't surprising. Other than the occasional raid attempt by dump pirates or bandits that undoubtedly ended horribly, Niops' history had been relatively peaceful. Even the Capellan refugee absorption was relatively peaceful.

Then you have an influx of FWL refugees, a failed raid by the Marians, a coup attempt backed by a foreign merc unit, a successful Marian raid, a civil war, an invasion and nukings by the Word of Blake, an imposed embassy and attempt (likely) at a banana republic by the Rim Commonality, the Republic deciding to plant an embassy (which may have actually gotten the Rim Commonality to finally leave), and enough unrest during all this that it's nearly 15 years before you have elections again.

Is it any wonder they're paranoid? Throw in a suspicious shift in Marian policy from raiding and conquoring to "no, really, we want to be your friend" and the FWL getting the band back together...

Actually, know who Niops would probably get along great with? The Regulans. Aren't they keeping independent from the nuFWL, and still having their hate on for the Blakists?

That said, I still can't see Niops being terribly friendly towards the Marians.

From what i readed in the FM 3145, Niops is surely the influence and espionage battleground between the new-FWL, the Regulans, Marians and Canopus, all side trying to influence the goverment and hampering the efforts of the others.

The thing about Space Rome is that they are willing to use the carrot or the stick (though it can largely depend on the Caesar). Sean tried to force the Lothian League into the MH. Julius won them over by granting them places in the Senate, Marian Citizenship, and a three-year exemption from conscription (as well as largely leaving the existing leadership, to include Elena Logan, in charge). Unification with the Hegemony would provide the industrial and military might to get Niops back on its feet and keep their people safe, and if they played their cards right Ignatius would probably let them keep running themselves and have voices in the Senate as well. Not that I expect Niops to consider the loss of complete self-government to be worth the trade. At least, not the powerful in Niops. Some of the former refugee underclass might see becoming Marian plebeians as a step up.

Xenophobia is probably higher than it's been in centuries in Niops these days. Acts of violence towards FWL refugees back in the 3080s is a good sign of that, as are the protests outside the Republic embassy.

But, no, it also isn't surprising. Other than the occasional raid attempt by dump pirates or bandits that undoubtedly ended horribly, Niops' history had been relatively peaceful. Even the Capellan refugee absorption was relatively peaceful.

Then you have an influx of FWL refugees, a failed raid by the Marians, a coup attempt backed by a foreign merc unit, a successful Marian raid, a civil war, an invasion and nukings by the Word of Blake, an imposed embassy and attempt (likely) at a banana republic by the Rim Commonality, the Republic deciding to plant an embassy (which may have actually gotten the Rim Commonality to finally leave), and enough unrest during all this that it's nearly 15 years before you have elections again.

Is it any wonder they're paranoid? Throw in a suspicious shift in Marian policy from raiding and conquoring to "no, really, we want to be your friend" and the FWL getting the band back together...

Actually, know who Niops would probably get along great with? The Regulans. Aren't they keeping independent from the nuFWL, and still having their hate on for the Blakists?

A Jihad question ended when in 3090? or 3085? And we are in 3145? Not like almost 60 years since the Bombings of WOB? I think too much time has passed to walk even wary of things that happened before that time.If we were all so we'd be checking Marians all visitors to Alphard by neutron bombing? And ilyrianos rebels, supported by wob first and then by the FWL we do run all Ilyrians? We have enemies if we are waiting for your visit and clear this, but seeing everyone as the enemy as a society do not think it ends well for Nyops

From what i readed in the FM 3145, Niops is surely the influence and espionage battleground between the new-FWL, the Regulans, Marians and Canopus, all side trying to influence the goverment and hampering the efforts of the others.

Exactly Nyops at this time for the issue of espionage seems Panama in the 80

The thing about Space Rome is that they are willing to use the carrot or the stick (though it can largely depend on the Caesar). Sean tried to force the Lothian League into the MH. Julius won them over by granting them places in the Senate, Marian Citizenship, and a three-year exemption from conscription (as well as largely leaving the existing leadership, to include Elena Logan, in charge). Unification with the Hegemony would provide the industrial and military might to get Niops back on its feet and keep their people safe, and if they played their cards right Ignatius would probably let them keep running themselves and have voices in the Senate as well. Not that I expect Niops to consider the loss of complete self-government to be worth the trade. At least, not the powerful in Niops. Some of the former refugee underclass might see becoming Marian plebeians as a step up.

A gradual integration as commonwealth nor despise serious thing, as the theme of paranoia and hatred of everything foreign surely would bring problems and probably some attempt at rebellion

Yes, they are available on Amazon, which is where I got the FWL arc from. Summary is . . . Rim Commonality has a decent relationship with Niops. Quite a bit of trade in fact. Niops handed over a intel document to the Rim Commonality government asking if it was true. The document was a carefully prepared yet detailed plan to invade Niops. Rim found out it was a Regulan plot to isolate the Commonality from their neighbors- Marians, Niops, Westover, other FWL independent worlds.

Lester misread Niops, which let the Rim Commonality know about the plot. Sort of backfired on the Regulans.

IIRC, it was in To Ride the Chimera . I will check when i get back home.

Edit: Yeap, chapter 25, Regulus was making a very good propaganda campaign on the worlds between them and the Rim Collection, including Niops VII and Westover. Aparently Lester did not count in the honesty (or naivety) of the Niopsians, who simply asked the Rimmers if what Regulus was saying.

I can see that happening with the Regulans. The Rim Commonality is easily the weaker(or weakest) part of the neoFWL and also the most isolated. I'm surprised it hasn't been annexed back into Regulan territory by 3145 with the neoFWL distracted by the Canopian-Andurien-Capellan raids.

I can see that happening with the Regulans. The Rim Commonality is easily the weaker(or weakest) part of the neoFWL and also the most isolated. I'm surprised it hasn't been annexed back into Regulan territory by 3145 with the neoFWL distracted by the Canopian-Andurien-Capellan raids.

At the moment I think are most looking Regulans its border with Wolf Empire than anything, independent worlds have been annexing estimate only and must be preparing something for the Rim Commonality, regarding Nyops not change their policy but if they do be advisable before any bidder is impatient

The Regulans tried to annex the Rim Commonality either at the end of the Jihad or just after it. The Rim said, no and had the military force to back it up . . . perhaps some help from the Marik Protectors next door too.

At the moment I think are most looking Regulans its border with Wolf Empire than anything, independent worlds have been annexing estimate only and must be preparing something for the Rim Commonality, regarding Nyops not change their policy but if they do be advisable before any bidder is impatient

The Wolves have bigger fish to fry, namely Terra. The Regulans can safely assume that flank is covered as they gun for the Commonality.

The Regulans tried to annex the Rim Commonality either at the end of the Jihad or just after it. The Rim said, no and had the military force to back it up . . . perhaps some help from the Marik Protectors next door too.

The Regulan Hussars at the end of the Jihad was a force of elite warriors and ramshackle machines. The RSMC of 3145 can roll over the Commonality anytime and claim its factories for itself, especially with Andurien, Canopus and the Hegemony putting pressure with raids on its borders.

The Regulan Hussars at the end of the Jihad was a force of elite warriors and ramshackle machines. The RSMC of 3145 can roll over the Commonality anytime and claim its factories for itself, especially with Andurien, Canopus and the Hegemony putting pressure with raids on its borders.

The problem is that the Capellans aren't interested in a war with the nuFWL (at least not yet). They are still focused on expanding further into the Capellan March. While they have the forces to defend against raids, if the nuFWL decides to launch a concentrated push, they would have to redeploy troops currently deployed against the AFFS.

While the RSMC has a lot of units, they are of varying strengths and quality. Many of them are incapable of joining an offensive whether because they are still in the process of forming (or rebuilding after suffering combat losses, such as the Fourth) and not combat ready or simply cannot be moved without causing more problems such as guarding a vital world or facility.

I did not say the Capellans. I did not even say that they would need to invade. Just raiding and pressuring the Commonality is enough for the Regulans to roll in and sweep them clean. You are also giving the neoFWL too much credit. They are currently surrounded in every direction and all borders can erupt into major wars at any time. If they pushed against the Confederation, that's just inviting the Wolves to come in and tear off another chunk of neoLeague territory again.

I did not say the Capellans. I did not even say that they would need to invade. Just raiding and pressuring the Commonality is enough for the Regulans to roll in and sweep them clean. You are also giving the neoFWL too much credit. They are currently surrounded in every direction and all borders can erupt into major wars at any time. If they pushed against the Confederation, that's just inviting the Wolves to come in and tear off another chunk of neoLeague territory again.

The Regulans were pushed off several worlds and the FWL was born despite being under pressure by Capellan and Andurien raiders. Raids alone aren't going to be enough to keep the FWL's attention.

With the Regulans surrounded on three sides by the FWL, they wouldn't have the forces available to invade the Rim Commonality without opening the Principality to invasion. Unfortunately for the Regulans, they apparently no longer have any warships to call upon and they also lost the main academy.

The Wolves also have plenty hunting grounds among the the remains of the Lyran Commonwealth. Not to mention they are still playing the centuries old one-upmanship game with the Falcons. Seizing Hesperus II and Tharkad (perhaps even Galatea) is of prime interest to the Wolves if only to show off and further humiliate the Falcons. With their non-aggression pact with the FWL securing one border, they are not likely to move against them in force for now especially with the unpredictable Malvina Hazen in charge of the Falcons. Although with these new Wolves you never know what to expect.

Looking at starting a new ATOW campaign in the Niops Association... I have some measly data on Niops VII, but next to nothing on Niops V and VI... I've already looked at the standard places (Sarna and PDFs) - anyone have any clue to what kind of climates/atmosphere's they have?

Nope. Niops VII is the only one we have detailed info on, and even then it's limited.

Niops VII was settled first, so presumably it's the most earthlike. Expect Niops V and VI to be warmer than VII, and more marginal. Most likely, they're tidally locked worlds. Also, red dwarf stars give off light mostly in the IR range, so expect them to be fairly dim worlds with a definite reddish cast.

For kicks, I tried running Niops through the beta version of the Solar System creation rules. It's a mess.

Niops is an M5V red dwarf, with a mass only 20% that of Sol, our sun. Luminosity is a low .624% that of our Sun. Yeah...

So, orbital positions! Using the rules, which are pretty good about getting the science fight, the closest stable orbital slot is around 0.08 AU from the star. The next one out is 0.14 AU. The habitability zone for an M5V is from 0.049 to .101 AU. Shoving seven planets close enough to Niops to get numbers 5-7 in the habitability zone is not feasible.

Options:

1. Use a gas giant for that first planet in the zone. The gas giant's moons are inhabited, including some the size of standard terrestrial planets. Technically feasible, but nomenclature is wrong: the gas giant would be Niops I, and its moons Niops I a through Niops Ig (ie. Niops V = Niops Ie, Niops VI = Niops If, and Niops VII. = Niops Ig).

2. Asteroid belt. Niops I through VII are dwarf planets. Gravity and atmospheres become issues.

I'm working Niops VII as a smaller, colder version of Earth, Niops VI as a warmer, dry world with enough water resources (after purification) to allow for agriculture. Also has Mining. Niops V being warmer yet with significant volcanic activity. It's only barely habitable and mainly done so for the easy access to minerals.

It's Niops. If you're not worrying about Science!, you're doing it wrong. ;)

Quote

I'm working Niops VII as a smaller, colder version of Earth, Niops VI as a warmer, dry world with enough water resources (after purification) to allow for agriculture. Also has Mining. Niops V being warmer yet with significant volcanic activity. It's only barely habitable and mainly done so for the easy access to minerals.

Sounds reasonable. And the Niops system has an asteroid belt somewhere, too, based on the canon asteroid mining efforts.

For kicks, I tried running Niops through the beta version of the Solar System creation rules. It's a mess.

Niops is an M5V red dwarf, with a mass only 20% that of Sol, our sun. Luminosity is a low .624% that of our Sun. Yeah...

So, orbital positions! Using the rules, which are pretty good about getting the science fight, the closest stable orbital slot is around 0.08 AU from the star. The next one out is 0.14 AU. The habitability zone for an M5V is from 0.049 to .101 AU. Shoving seven planets close enough to Niops to get numbers 5-7 in the habitability zone is not feasible.

Options:

1. Use a gas giant for that first planet in the zone. The gas giant's moons are inhabited, including some the size of standard terrestrial planets. Technically feasible, but nomenclature is wrong: the gas giant would be Niops I, and its moons Niops I a through Niops Ig (ie. Niops V = Niops Ie, Niops VI = Niops If, and Niops VII. = Niops Ig).

2. Asteroid belt. Niops I through VII are dwarf planets. Gravity and atmospheres become issues.

Option 3 would be to use brown dwarves in the outer rings to daisy chain habitability further out.

For kicks, I tried running Niops through the beta version of the Solar System creation rules. It's a mess.

Niops is an M5V red dwarf, with a mass only 20% that of Sol, our sun. Luminosity is a low .624% that of our Sun. Yeah...

So, orbital positions! Using the rules, which are pretty good about getting the science fight, the closest stable orbital slot is around 0.08 AU from the star. The next one out is 0.14 AU. The habitability zone for an M5V is from 0.049 to .101 AU. Shoving seven planets close enough to Niops to get numbers 5-7 in the habitability zone is not feasible.

Options:

1. Use a gas giant for that first planet in the zone. The gas giant's moons are inhabited, including some the size of standard terrestrial planets. Technically feasible, but nomenclature is wrong: the gas giant would be Niops I, and its moons Niops I a through Niops Ig (ie. Niops V = Niops Ie, Niops VI = Niops If, and Niops VII. = Niops Ig).

2. Asteroid belt. Niops I through VII are dwarf planets. Gravity and atmospheres become issues.

I'd go with option one, with the colonists using the wrong nomenclature because they said so. It'd hardly be the weirdest thing ever in BT. Maybe say something along the lines of "we thought it would make the system sound more menacing if they thought these were planets." Or something.

Why not make Niops I & II and Niops III & IV two pairs of double planets? You retain the naming conventions and get to shove V - VII that much closer to the star.

Unlikely? Probably. Unpossible? I don't know.

Unabashedly awesome? Yes.

EDIT/ADDITION:

Something that has always seemed odd to me is that Niops (as far as I know) is the only multi-world system that gets one dot on the map for each inhabited planet, whereas places like Talon/Wernke or Odessa/Gabriel only get a single dot. Niops was placed where it was because it was supposed to be focusing on stellar evolution - is there any evidence that maybe it's a multiple star star system?

I know this discussion was a few pages back . . . but was it ever determined what type of Royal mechs were produced for Niops? What about armor? I know they had SL-era body armor and individual weapons along with Nighthawks for the elite infantry . . . by the time of MWDA only a few squads of suits are left . . . right?

I know this discussion was a few pages back . . . but was it ever determined what type of Royal mechs were produced for Niops? What about armor? I know they had SL-era body armor and individual weapons along with Nighthawks for the elite infantry . . . by the time of MWDA only a few squads of suits are left . . . right?

Looking for a bit of a set up for a merc unit . . . Sons of Korhal.

They never spelled it out, unfortunately. Only four actual unit types have been specified by name for Niops: the Black Knight, the Highlander, the Burke tank and the Nighthawk XXI and XXII. Their aerospace arm was stated to be the equivalent of their BattleMech arm: on the heavy side and full of Star League designs. For 'Mechs, vehicles and aero, they used to roll on the ComStar tables before everything went to hell in a handbasket. Their infantry was never expressly spelled out to be equipped like the old SLDF infantry, but the implication was there based on their other equipment.

By 3145, Niops reportedly has four squads of Nighthawks guarding the governmental facilities on Niops VII. Their main military academy (yes, it's described as "main") is the Central Military School on Niops VII, which has a highly active training program for infantry, an active vehicle training program, and an underfunded MechWarrior program.

Their current forces also state the "one bright spot in an otherwise bleak recent history has been the formal addition of infantry forces to the NAM in both unarmored and battlearmor alike." That implies some use of battlearmor beyond just the Nighthawk, and perhaps also indicates that the Niops Association is placing greater credence in battlearmor than in BattleMechs these days. Field Manual 3145 is a bit sparse in describing the NAM's composition, mentioning they have a single BattleMech regiment at 85% strength, with a D tech rating on the RAT tables. There's no mention of their current aerospace asset strength, but at their peak pre-Jihad, they had a full wing of 54 aerospace fighters. Niops now use the Periphery table, rather than the Republic table. It's probably a safe bet that, with their Workshops not having been rebuilt, much of what they currently field consists of whatever techs have been been able to salvage of old NAM units and the invading Word of Blake units, with imports taking care of the rest.

With that said...Niops might be a bit of an unfriendly environment for mercenaries. It was, after all, a merc unit that set the ball rolling in their civil war with a coup attempt. Your best bet would be if your merc unit was signed on with Interstellar Expeditions, whom Niops is in tight with (their joint asteroid mining project, Niops Mining, is currently the largest industry in the Niops system).

Oh I remember and understand that . . . I know we discussed various units that would make sense at one point- I think the Chameleon and Guillotine make sense, perhaps the Crockett because a trainer as well. The Guillotine was around so long and the standard for the SLDF it sounds reasonable IMO.

If you played SC, I was sort of thinking for backstory on a bunch of conventional force mercs to be led by Arcturus Mengsk, born on V or VI to 4SW Free Tikonov refugees. Sort of slide that whole backstory with Niops council being the Confederation . . . and Mengsk supported by the Blakists to return in the mid '70s when they were savaged. Just like they used Waco to take it to the Dragoons.

They never spelled it out, unfortunately. Only four actual unit types have been specified by name for Niops: the Black Knight, the Highlander, the Burke tank and the Nighthawk XXI and XXII. Their aerospace arm was stated to be the equivalent of their BattleMech arm: on the heavy side and full of Star League designs. For 'Mechs, vehicles and aero, they used to roll on the ComStar tables before everything went to hell in a handbasket. Their infantry was never expressly spelled out to be equipped like the old SLDF infantry, but the implication was there based on their other equipment.

By 3145, Niops reportedly has four squads of Nighthawks guarding the governmental facilities on Niops VII. Their main military academy (yes, it's described as "main") is the Central Military School on Niops VII, which has a highly active training program for infantry, an active vehicle training program, and an underfunded MechWarrior program.

Their current forces also state the "one bright spot in an otherwise bleak recent history has been the formal addition of infantry forces to the NAM in both unarmored and battlearmor alike." That implies some use of battlearmor beyond just the Nighthawk, and perhaps also indicates that the Niops Association is placing greater credence in battlearmor than in BattleMechs these days. Field Manual 3145 is a bit sparse in describing the NAM's composition, mentioning they have a single BattleMech regiment at 85% strength, with a D tech rating on the RAT tables. There's no mention of their current aerospace asset strength, but at their peak pre-Jihad, they had a full wing of 54 aerospace fighters. Niops now use the Periphery table, rather than the Republic table. It's probably a safe bet that, with their Workshops not having been rebuilt, much of what they currently field consists of whatever techs have been been able to salvage of old NAM units and the invading Word of Blake units, with imports taking care of the rest.

With that said...Niops might be a bit of an unfriendly environment for mercenaries. It was, after all, a merc unit that set the ball rolling in their civil war with a coup attempt. Your best bet would be if your merc unit was signed on with Interstellar Expeditions, whom Niops is in tight with (their joint asteroid mining project, Niops Mining, is currently the largest industry in the Niops system).

I though I remembered L. Jamison Fallon being a notable pilot or something. Ahab, maybe. Or am I remembering something from FGC '62?

@Ark: Let's think about this... everything I listed was standard for SLDF at the time. Much of this would not have drawn attention to Niops. The Mule, Condor and Fury would be the next logical step. The Leopard, Union and Overlord would be to new, being replaced on a ship by ship basis for more prestige units. Hell I can see the old Manatee and Dictator droppers being regulated to Militia units at this time, before they get replaced themselves. Also they don't have to build them in shipyards, hand build them is better. Part broken, lathe up a dozen, backups and such. O:-)

@Gio: Why not? The thousands of DroST IIa's out there, fluff has them still being used today even in the, then current timeline. Wouldn't be surprised to see a DroST IIa being used in 3145. * grins * Anyone up to making a Dark Age DroST IIa with the advert new tech? ;)

Alright...that makes sense. DropShip yards wouldn't be a stretch. Niops has germanium mines, so do they have JumpShip-capable yards?

I was thinking since their pre-Jihad doctrine of quality over quantity(as exemplified by hand-building Royal units one-by-one) would make the Colossus and Lee DropShips attractive to them. 1 of those bad boys permanently attached to each battalion, creating 6 rapid-response units ideal for their intra-system defensive doctrine. They had the tech to keep the DropShips in maintenance and it would quickly make pirates look elsewhere for raid targets.

For a game, in y'all's estimation what SLDF gear might Niops have had access to? Everything that's confirmed, plus whatever y'all think they could have had (feel free to state your thought on how (un)likely a certain possible design is).

For a game, in y'all's estimation what SLDF gear might Niops have had access to? Everything that's confirmed, plus whatever y'all think they could have had (feel free to state your thought on how (un)likely a certain possible design is).

Confirmed: Black Knight, Highlander, Burke, Nighthawk XXI and XXII.

Theorized: I can't find my PDF for Field Manual SLDF, but Niopsian pointed out the link between Niops and the XXXIV Corps (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,375.msg470299.html#msg470299). Look at what part of the XXXIV that Van Coevorden was part/in command of, and use that as a starting point.

According to the SLSB, the 187th Royal Striker Regiment was part of the XXXIV Corps, and could have been a source of Royal units, including the Nighthawk. The SLSB also lists the 187th as having originally been part of the FWL Region (which Niops was on the border with), and having been moved to "an undisclosed area of the Periphery" during the Periphery Uprising. Note also that the 9999th Mechanized Infantry Regiment was the only part of the XXXIV Corps described as surviving through Operation Liberation.

Keeping that in mind, not every single person needs to die in a unit for the unit to be destroyed/disbanded. It's entirely possible that survivors from the XXXIV ended up deciding that moving to Niops, taking their military hardware with them, was better than Exodus or serving a House Lord. Hell, Kerensky would have probably preferred that they do that than serve a House - at least Niops was "family", so to speak.

The next spot I'd look would be Era Report 2750, at the RATs for the Star League/Terran Hegemony. Another possible source of gear was the Star League Expeditionary Brigade, which was disbanded after Simon Cameron's death and not reformed. I could see some of their personnel and gear kicked towards colonies like Niops, especially as the brigade had attached non-combatant astronomy and geology teams. Sadly, it wouldn't include the SLS Pioneer.

I would honestly say look at the oldest equipment the SLDF fielded- perhaps back to plain old Hegemony days.

You want to throw a fun twist, they take in refugees . . . where could a Star League top scientist trying to avoid the post-Kerensky Exodus Houses' Op Paperclip find the best refuge? where would what he/she bring be most valued?

Theorized: I can't find my PDF for Field Manual SLDF, but Niopsian pointed out the link between Niops and the XXXIV Corps (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,375.msg470299.html#msg470299). Look at what part of the XXXIV that Van Coevorden was part/in command of, and use that as a starting point.

According to the SLSB, the 187th Royal Striker Regiment was part of the XXXIV Corps, and could have been a source of Royal units, including the Nighthawk. The SLSB also lists the 187th as having originally been part of the FWL Region (which Niops was on the border with), and having been moved to "an undisclosed area of the Periphery" during the Periphery Uprising. Note also that the 9999th Mechanized Infantry Regiment was the only part of the XXXIV Corps described as surviving through Operation Liberation.

Keeping that in mind, not every single person needs to die in a unit for the unit to be destroyed/disbanded. It's entirely possible that survivors from the XXXIV ended up deciding that moving to Niops, taking their military hardware with them, was better than Exodus or serving a House Lord. Hell, Kerensky would have probably preferred that they do that than serve a House - at least Niops was "family", so to speak.

The next spot I'd look would be Era Report 2750, at the RATs for the Star League/Terran Hegemony. Another possible source of gear was the Star League Expeditionary Brigade, which was disbanded after Simon Cameron's death and not reformed. I could see some of their personnel and gear kicked towards colonies like Niops, especially as the brigade had attached non-combatant astronomy and geology teams. Sadly, it wouldn't include the SLS Pioneer.

IIRC earlier fluff suggests that Niops was in the dark about the Amaris crisis until the Capellan refugees dropped in on them, so I doubt they'd have any Liberation survivors that declined to join the Exodus. Good info on the XXXIV Corps though. I'd done a ctrl+f on my pdf of FM SLDF and couldn't find a mention of Niops, so didn't know where to look in there. Thanks for that.

Actually, while it's clear they didn't know about the Succession Wars, it isn't at all clear they didn't know about the Exodus, and strikes me as unlikely they didn't know about the Civil War, given their cadre units were most likely ordered to pull out during this time.

Actually, while it's clear they didn't know about the Succession Wars, it isn't at all clear they didn't know about the Exodus, and strikes me as unlikely they didn't know about the Civil War, given their cadre units were most likely ordered to pull out during this time.

I'm not sure where IS Atlas get their fluff on Niops, but I know a lot of what they have is simply copied verbatim from sourcebooks. At any rate, their article on Niops VII (link (http://isatlas.teamspam.net/planet-detail.php?planet=6476710)) suggests that the Colony didn't learn of the Amaris Civil War until the Capellan Refugees arrived.

I'm not sure where IS Atlas get their fluff on Niops, but I know a lot of what they have is simply copied verbatim from sourcebooks. At any rate, their article on Niops VII (link (http://isatlas.teamspam.net/planet-detail.php?planet=6476710)) suggests that the Colony didn't learn of the Amaris Civil War until the Capellan Refugees arrived.

That's not loading for me. Unfortunately, I can't find my old copy of the original Periphery book or Field Manual Periphery on PDF. I found my PDF for Field Manual SLDF, though, and it looks like the 62nd Mechanized Infantry Division was the unit closest to Niops.

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Little if anything, they were mostly unskilled laborers who were put to work on farms or in factories by their technocratic overlords.

FTL transport assets that were probably beat to hell would be my guess.

Edit: Wait, that's what it says in the Force Brief on page 120, but he quote seems to be taken directly from page 111, in the more general faction writeup. In fact, they seem to have copied that entire writeup for their entry on Niops VII.

Found my dead tree copy of FASA's older Periphery sourcebook, and it mentions that Niops was cut off from the Inner Sphere by the Amaris Coup. I'd take that to mean, then, that they knew the Civil War happened, but had no idea about the SLDF Exodus or the Succession Wars until the Capellan refugees arrived.

That doesn't make any sense, though, especially given that recent publications have implied that they were still tied to the Star League and in regular contact, from FM: SLDF indicating there was active trade going on there with the XXXIV Corps, or Era Report 2750, which briefly described them as closely tied to the Star League.

If you look at the earlier illustration of the Gliese 581 system, you'll note that the letters assigned to each planet are not in order of their proximity to their star, but order they were discovered. I suspect the same may be true for Niops, which would explain how they get three worlds into their narrow habitability zone, that are numbered 5, 6 and 7. That's just the order they were found in, not their order of proximity from their star.

Should make working out the details of the system way easier under the star system creation rules.

That doesn't make any sense, though, especially given that recent publications have implied that they were still tied to the Star League and in regular contact, from FM: SLDF indicating there was active trade going on there with the XXXIV Corps, or Era Report 2750, which briefly described them as closely tied to the Star League.

maybe they were cutoff from the star league proper with the coup.. but they had a connection to the SLDF that was seperate from the star league's government?

where was XXXIV corps stationed? maybe they just retained a local connection but lost contact with anyone in the hegemony..

That doesn't make any sense, though, especially given that recent publications have implied that they were still tied to the Star League and in regular contact, from FM: SLDF indicating there was active trade going on there with the XXXIV Corps, or Era Report 2750, which briefly described them as closely tied to the Star League.

More importantly FM:SLDF implies that the Niops Association already existed as an independent Periphery state before the Amaris Coup.

Could just be the support settlements for the science stuff were founded as an incorporated venture, like how a lot of real world colonies were bankrolled.. that would give it a pseudo government right from the start. One made of investors and corporate reps. That would seem to fit the older fluff, iirc.

Could just be the support settlements for the science stuff were founded as an incorporated venture, like how a lot of real world colonies were bankrolled.. that would give it a pseudo government right from the start. One made of investors and corporate reps. That would seem to fit the older fluff, iirc.

Extremely unlikely, more likely the writer forgot (if not outright ignored) the older fluff when they wrote them in. None of the real world colonies were meant to be independent of the parent state. Most importantly large corporations hate when their employees try to rule themselves. ;) They might get the crazy idea that they no longer need their superiors who bankrolled the operation.

Actually it wouldn't be big companies. In old style colonization the group wanting to set up the colony set up a corprate entity of their own, then encourage individuals to invest in it to prove funding, with each investor getting a share of any profits. Often the biggest investors did so for idealistic rather than economic reasons though, and the first colonists were usually investors as well. The colony/company would recruit colonists, buy supplies, charter transport, etc. This is how most of the major European colonies were founded. Especially the french and British ones.the approaching it like a business also meant that if a colony needed more colonists, or trained specialists, or more supplies, etc. It could just send a few reprasentitives back and hire/buy what it needs, making bookkeeping and logistics simpler.

So niops wouldn't be some branch of a big corporation, it would something like 'Niops association LLC', with a board of directors from with the colony itself. Most of the investors would also be colonists, with a few big investors elsewhere they'd have to satisfy in a given time. I'd imagine that in niops case the big investors would have been scientific organizations willing to invest funds in return for the data niops collects.

Scientific organizations don't set up entire colonies on their own. Certainly not in the size to be able to generate trade with outsiders then not realize for more than six decades that something may be wrong after all contact with the rest of the universe breaks off.

You are pretty far from the old canon origins in FM: Periphery which clearly states that the Niops Association was founded by the Star League Astronomical Office to study stellar evolution. It was founded 23 years (2741) before FM:SLDF (2764) was put together, yet somehow a secret, self-sufficient research colony founded to study stellar evolution grew enough to not only declare its independence and reorganize itself as an independent periphery state but also be able to produce an excess amount of supplies to make a dent in a SLDF Corps' material shortfall?

Your right.. scientific organization's don't set up colonies. They set up up outposts. Couple hundred people tops with a bunch of automated science gear. So why did niops get a full blown colony complete with industry? Your argument against my suggestion is a bigger argument against your own stance.

Because I'm not saying the scientific organization did it. Because I'm saying that when the SLAO set up the niops outpost, entrepenuers in positions aware of it saw a possibility, and set up an business venture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartered_company) seperate from the SLAO, to found a full blown colony. That the colony and the SLAO research outpost started as separate entities, that just shared the same location.

The difficult issue is what a niops colony venture might be able to produce profit on or promise they can make profit from when getting investors, but if you figure the colony venture focused on science not under the SLAO plan, and sold the idea of it as being an isolated self sufficient think tank it it starts to explain a lot about niops in later times.. would also explain some of the industry.. it was to help produce specialized hardware needed to test exotic scientific ideas.

Your right.. scientific organization's don't set up colonies. They set up up outposts. Couple hundred people tops with a bunch of automated science gear. So why did niops get a full blown colony complete with industry? Your argument against my suggestion is a bigger argument against your own stance.

Well apparently you don't know what my stance is. My stance has been that the new retcon is not in keeping with the original fluff of the Niops Association whereas you are looking for a way that the chances are still in keeping with the original fluff.

Could just be the support settlements for the science stuff were founded as an incorporated venture, like how a lot of real world colonies were bankrolled.. that would give it a pseudo government right from the start. One made of investors and corporate reps. That would seem to fit the older fluff, iirc.

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Because I'm not saying the scientific organization did it. Because I'm saying that when the SLAO set up the niops outpost, entrepenuers in positions aware of it saw a possibility, and set up an business venture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartered_company) seperate from the SLAO, to found a full blown colony. That the colony and the SLAO research outpost started as separate entities, that just shared the same location.

Even the addition of outside parties to the original fluff would not lead the colony to becoming a "minor Periphery state." The original fluff also clearly states that at the time of the arrival of the Capellan refugees Niops was still only an astronomical research station (FM:P, p 120). According to the original fluff, the Niops Association dropped off the Inner Sphere radar and lost all contact with the Inner Sphere which the involvement of other parties and trade ties with the Inner Sphere would have made much more difficult. Not only do you have the outside parties including scientific groups (and related institutions) that would have been aware of the existence of Niops, but you have the JumpShips/DropShips who facilitated the establishment of the additional group and the Star League from the SL's Department of Communications adding their HPG to the Communications Network to facilitate trade negotiations to the Star League establishing an embassy of sorts to help facilitate political negotiations. Finally, your proposal would mean that the government and social strata would have already been established prior to the fall of the Star League while the original fluff clearly states that this happened after the Capellan refugees arrived (p111).

There are simply too many inconsistencies to reconcile the two without have to resort to making one excuse after another (which you are apparently doing). Therefore the retcon FM:SLDF is inconsistent with the original fluff.

Personally I find the retconning surrounding the Niops Associations' origins. Originally it was an isolated scientific outpost that missed the Amaris Coup that didn't become an independent state until after the Succession Wars began. Now its supposed to have been a fledgling Periphery State before the fall of the Star League (per FM:SLDF)?

Niops is on the map because they were settled by then. This is nothing new. You'll note that there is no legend with the name "Niops Association" with it. This is because, as you correctly say, the NA didn't get founded until later. But the world were settled by the 2750s. And all settled worlds of Great House are shown on maps.

Øystein

Niops was founded prior to the fall of the Star League, but the Niops Association wasn't founded until after the fall of the Star League. His response pretty much sums up mine when I first read the section in FM: SLDF: "Huh?".

OK, so, things have been quiet in the Niops thread lately, and after seeing the Marian thread recently talking about what designs the Hegemony should produce, I revisited the idea for Niops: if and when Niops rebuilds their local military hardware manufacturing, what should they look into building?

Because Niops' industry has been beaten down to almost nothing, I decided to exclusively look at two tech bases: Primitive and Intro tech. For the most part, I'm sticking to designs that Niops would either have likely have access to as a former Star League colony, or that are readily-available and common in the Periphery. I've also tried to find as much overlap with fusion engines as possible, to cut down on the number of production lines they'd need, and prefer to minimize the number of weapons types that need to be manufactured, maintained, and fed as well. I've also stuck exclusively to stock, canon designs

So, let's start with Intro Tech, shall we? We know, from canon, that Niops expressly produced three named designs: the Black Knight, the Highlander and the Burke.

The Burke gives us a 150-rating engine, but uses ferro fibrous armor, so it's actually outside my criteria. Should Niops continue to be able to produce its engines and PPCs, though, you can get the SPD-502 Spad, and that same engine could get you introtech Commandos like the COM-2D - according to the MUL, it's Periphery General in the early Republic era, so that's feasible. The FFL-4A Firefly, an intro tech version of an old Star League design, would be another possibility. The problem, of course, is there's almost no weapons commonality between the three designs.

The 270-rating engine opens up a few more doors. first, you can keep intro-tech Highlanders, like the HGN-733P, in production, and also get the intro tech Phoenix Hawk, Hussar, Tomahawk and Ahab available to you. I could not, however, find any intro tech vehicles that used the 270 standard fusion, and the AHB-X and Highlander also use a crapload of different weapons. There is good overlap between the PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk and THK-33 Tomahawk, though, as well as with the HSR-300-D Hussar.

The 300 Vlar opens up huge numbers of doors. You've got two intro-tech versions of the Black Knight (one with a PPC, LLs, MLs, and an SL, and the other with just LLs, MLs and SLs), the Marauder, the Orion, Atlas, intro-tech Mackie, intro-tech King Crab, intro-tech Champion, the Ostsol, the Chameleon, the Eagle, the Stuka, the Thunderbird and, for a tank, the Merkava Mk VIII. If you've got the 300-rating engine, you're golden for frontline combatants.

Another one I looked into was the Vlar 160, which is used by the AM-PRM-SH1 Space Hound ProspectorMech, something I could see Niops and Interstellar Expeditions working together to build a production line for to aid in mining asteroids for germanium. It's only got a single small laser, but the Vlar 160 was also used on the Whitworth, Locust and intro-tech Mercury. The Locust and Mercury both have all-energy configs, which would cut down on logistics, too.

With the 300, the 270 and the 160, your best bet would probably be to build the following:

That puts your recon and your industrial 'Mech using one engine, your medium strike 'Mech, mainline BattleMech and main battle tank using another, and assault 'Mech and anti-ship ASF using the third. It also gives you redundancy should there be an issue with one of those engine production lines. There's overlap between the weapons production, too. If you can't produce one of the three engines, you've got other solid options, as well.

Now, here's the tricky part: what if they're stuck at a Primitive tech base for a while?

If that's the case, you're going to want to have as much overlap as possible, again, but this time you're starting from scratch. Worse, exactly one of your old engines, the 270-rating, is used by a primitive design (the primitive EGL-R1 Eagle). Ideally, assuming you'll be able to use these same fusion engines later down the road for intro or standard tech designs (see my rules board question), you'll not only want to maximize the number of designs you can use now, but also want to maximize your upgrade paths. Vehicles, if you're this bad off, are probably going to be based on older primitive support vehicle tech, which don't use the same engines, sadly.

This, in the end, boils down into five engines: the 180-rating, the 220-rating, the 240-rating, the 255-rating and the 360-rating.

With the 180-rating, out the door, you could build the primitive Lightning and Helepolis, which gives you a useful aerospace fighter and an artillery 'Mech. Your upgrade path to intro tech gains you 'Mechs like the Javelin and Blackjack, but also the intro-tech Wyvern and, when you eventually get back to your original tech base, the SLDF Wyvern and Galahad. I've not, though, been able to find any intro-tech fighters or vehicles that use this engine.

The 220-rating may seem odd at first, but it gives you the original Kyudo, the Star Dagger ASF, and the primitive Centurion ASF. Your upgrade paths here are weird: you end up replacing the Star Dagger or Centurion ASF with the SB-27 Sabre, and gain the ability to produce the intro-tech versions of the Prowler explorer vehicle, a unit that was highly popular with Explorer Corps, and one that Interstellar Expeditions might like, but which could also double as a decent infantry carrier for the Militia.

The 240-rating engine is, of course, a popular engine at the intro-tech level. For primitive tech, it may only get you the SHD-1R Shadow Hawk and RFL-1N Rifleman, but moving up to intro tech your upgrade path gets you the RFL-3N and RFL-3C Rifleman, the various intro-tech Merlins, the intro-tech Lancelot, and the F-90 Stingray.

The 255-rating gives you an interesting starting point: the retrotech SPR-DH Sparrowhawk, with its MLs and ERSLs, and the ancient BKX-1X Battleaxe, with its large lasers, LRM-5s and SRM-6. When you finally get an intro tech base back, you also get the Stalker, which everyone loves, the dumbed-down Crockett, the Longbow 7Q, and two useful vehicles once you can produce standard/Star League tech: the Thor and the Glory.

Lastly, there's the 360-rating engine. This, of course, gives you the prototype Mackie 5S with its PPC, LL and AC/5, the production Mackie 6S with its PPC, twin MLs and AC/10, and, importantly, the primitive HMR-HA Hammerhead with its twin MLs. Upgrading from here, though, is weird, because the only thing I could find that uses the same engine was the Cyclops - a decent enough 'Mech, but still kind of limiting.

If you're stuck at this level, then you should probably stick to two engines, at which point I'd say your best bet is to either do the 220 or the 240, and the 255 or the 360, depending on which plans you can get.

The 220-rating and 240-rating are both pretty safe options, since the primitive Kyudo, Star Dagger, Shadow Hawk and Rifleman were all Terran Hegemony designs, as was the Prowler. You're probably going to be able to get the Sabre, too, without much difficulty. The Shadow Hawk or Kyudo would give you a solid trooper, as well.

The 255-rating is tricky: both primitive designs that use this engine are foreign, and may be hard to get ahold of. With the 360-rating, though, you've got two solid Terran Hegemony primitive designs, which would serve well in the NAM: the primitive Hammerhead is quick enough and has solid enough armor to fulfill the role of general-purpose fighter, and the Mackie, despite being primitive, is a solid assault.

In the end, I'd probably say build production lines for the 240 and 360 fusion engines, then start building the following designs:

SHD-1R Shadow HawkRFL-1N RiflemanMSK-5S MackieHMR-HA Hammerhead

That requires you to build the PPC, the large laser, the AC/5, and the medium laser. Your Mackie and Shadow Hawk share AC/5s, your Hammerhead, Rifleman and Mackie share large lasers, the Shadow Hawk and Rifleman share medium lasers, and the only odd duck out is the PPC on the Mackie, but you're still building only a limited number of 'Mechs, getting you a trooper, a fire support 'Mech, an assault 'Mech, and a general-purpose fighter, and your forces still have a distinct Star League feel, even if it's a retro one.

Nice work, while I see the logic I think they would also need to factor in other points.

1. Who are your likely opponents. Marian's may raid but have lost interest in an invasion, FWL is busy but may still do a recon in force, Pirates will be the biggest problem.

2. My take on Niops is that they are still healing from bitter internal stresses. A mech with M Guns and SRM's will help with civil unrest (also good for anti infantry)

3. Any design picked needs to give them the best bang for the buck. It will need to be multi roll, have decent armor, and some what heat efficient to compete with modern designs.

My pick would be the Battleaxe 1X. It has LRM's for fire support , Large Lasers for hole punching, SRM and MGuns for infantry and crit seeking, it's armor allows it to take some damage before falling back, but most importantly to me it has enough Heat Sinks to fire both Large Lasers while running or adding one to it's close up fire without overheating.

Ostwar would be my second choice (better armor and good heat dissipation ) and a TBolt my third (armor and hands).

Humm, I agree with the analysis of these would be good designs Saint pàra Nyops concerning mechs, ASF as I believe the Eagle would not be out of their way in Peripheral RATS abounds Seydlytz the same thing. As for the shield recalls that the Marian Hegemony have Ferrofibrous / case and advanced armor for battlearmor so I do not think the armor Ferrofibrous this out of range or in small quantities or by importing the Marian Hegemony or Rim commonality

That's the one. I don't remember them getting off world equipment to make it. I remember them going off world to try to hire merc... The same ones that attacked their planet. Either way, it still seemed easy for them to make it.

About making Hawkwolfs in Niops....i can see the Hope Industrial Works selling both the primitive or/and the advanced Hawkwolf to Niops, but sharing the schematics is a little harder. If you read between the lines, i do not know how much control the HIW and/or the Knights of Randis have over the design and production of the Hawkwolf.

Trade isn't the same as rebuilding their local infrastructure, and I have doubts Niops would invite the Marians to build a local factory. Past interactions between Marians and Niopians on Niops worlds were occasionally... acrimonious.

In the past I could that relations have been hostile takeovers, but maybe if we provide some systems inhabited they may have in their base of astronomical data could get to convince the ATC or hadrian who are interested in investment that clear type with some commitment of production go to the Marian hegemony

If you're planning to make a trip to New St. Andrews, make sure you're friendly with the Marians, and do watch out for pirates as you pass the former Circinian worlds.

There are pirates everywhere, and I suspect the local former FWL systems have no problems with trade running through their worlds if it's not supplying the Marians. Or are you happier going through the Canopians, Capellans, Taurians and FedSuns systems to get to Randis, assuming you don't run into pirates from Tortuga or the Badlands Cluster on the way? Assuming that the Regulans don't decide you're pirates anyway.

The Marian Hegemony is closer to a space jump and even the capital is as close and where the political leadership and the headquarters of two companies with whom to negotiate

I'm still not clear on why you would think that the Niops Association, where they have "foreigners go home!" protesters outside an empty Republic of the Sphere embassy, would warmly welcome having the Marian Hegemony, who have attacked them multiple times, build permanent infrastructure in Niops, especially considering they're competitors in germanium mining.

I'm still not clear on why you would think that the Niops Association, where they have "foreigners go home!" protesters outside an empty Republic of the Sphere embassy, would warmly welcome having the Marian Hegemony, who have attacked them multiple times, build permanent infrastructure in Niops, especially considering they're competitors in germanium mining.

Ehh, I'll give you an option ...., competitors? I doubt very much germanium we do not have a mine in a system, but mines in several systems

There are pirates everywhere, and I suspect the local former FWL systems have no problems with trade running through their worlds if it's not supplying the Marians. Or are you happier going through the Canopians, Capellans, Taurians and FedSuns systems to get to Randis, assuming you don't run into pirates from Tortuga or the Badlands Cluster on the way? Assuming that the Regulans don't decide you're pirates anyway.

Sure, but the Circinians were the biggest, baddest Bandit Kingdom. Best to avoid the area if at all possible, which means either traversing the MH, or taking a lengthy detour around them on the Rimward side, or all the way through the LC if you prefer a Coreward route.

As for Randis, What kind of strange route are you using? The most direct route doesn't take you through Regulan or Canopian space, and you should be able to avoid Andurien, CC, FS, TC, or NCR territory with only a short detour. At least, as long as you only need to avoid one. If you need to avoid mthe FS and TC, for example, it's a much more significant detour. But by no means should you have to go through MoC, CC, TC, FS, and Regulan space.

The biggest issue the Niops Association has is that they have little to offer in trade and would likely have to rely on the willingness of their trading partner(s) to help them out. Not to mention their partner(s) would have to have the extra resources available to help them out. Another considerations is that even at their height the Niops Association's ability to manufacture military equipment was limited so a trading partner would likely have to assistance with that as well. A final consideration is that even before the Jihad the Niops Association didn't have a large JumpShip fleet. What few they had were leftover from when refugees fleeing the Succession Wars settled on one of the Niops' worlds and were likely hit by the Blakists during their attack. The few that were left over after that (that are still jump capable) are likely tied up transporting DropShips between the three systems.

Republic of the Sphere - Despite their disarmament policy, the Republic should have been willing to help the Niops Association establish at least a capable defense force. (Before the Blackout of course)

Regulan Fiefs - The Regulans know the feeling of have their homeworld devastated by the Blakists and have no love for either the Rim Commonality (if I recall they forced the Niops Association to permit them to establish an embassy on Niops) or the Free Worlds League so they might be willing to help although they probably would require that the Niops Association allow them to establish a forward staging base from which they could launch raids into the Rim Commonality and (later) the Free Worlds League.

Magistracy of Canopus - The Magistracy has no love for the Marion Hegemony so establishing a roadblock in to hinder Marian expansion would make sense. With them might come some Capellan aid as well.

Duchy of Andurien - They know the feeling of being pressured by their neighbors so they might be willing to provide some assistance especially if it hinders Marian expansion into the former FWL territory. After all if the Marians get too close, they might start expanding their raiding expeditions into Andurien territory (if they haven't done so already).

Randis - While they would probably be willing to help, they are too far away and their resources are too limited to be able to assist the Niops Association.

Fronc Reaches - They would certainly be willing to help but lack the resources to help beyond perhaps providing some instructors.

So, yes, TRAPPIST-1 is around 57% the mass and diameter of our fictional Niops, but it's close enough that you could easily swap it out to little to no effect in your own game, as well as rough descriptions of what each world may be like.

What about TRAPPIST-1's position in relation to Earth? Rimward-Anti-Spinward?

Opposite direction from Niops, amusingly.

Because Battletech's star map is 2D and takes liberties with reality, it takes a little extrapolation, but it's in the same ballpark direction as Markab and Fomalhaut, 40 LY from Earth. So, figure TRAPPIST-1 is somewhere in the area between Styx, Nirasaki and Northwind.

So, haven't had a chance to pick it up yet, and debating between now and next payday, but does anyone know if Niops gets a mention in Shattered Fortress? I know there's some Marian activity there, so it had me wondering.