At 6/9/04 01:32 PM, EviLDoG wrote:
I prefer the sites which hand pick the good flash from sites around the internet and display them on their page.

You mean you prefer sites which steal other people's work and put it on their site for their own personal gain? Unlike Newgrounds where the artists actually submit their work to us directly.

Agreed. Evil must never have heard of Copyright Infringment. Let's break this down...

"I prefer the sites"

Okay, do you prefer it over NG then? I smell rebellion...

"which hand pick the good flash from other sites around the internet and display them on their page."

So it's some guy sitting at a desk and looking for popular flashes. He sees one, so he adds it to his collection, thus drawing people to HIS site, thus robbing the ORIGINAL site of its viewers.

See, NG doens't DO that. So are you saying that you... don't like NG? Now you see where I'm coming from with this.

I agree with Mr. Tom Fulp's statement that all Flash animators want to get their work out there. I sure do. I've been drawing my cartoons and sketches feverishly for all of my life. I intend to bring those characters to the technological future with Flash animation. I mean, let's face it, I'm a poor student. I have a TERRIBLE focus problem, I can't remember anything for more than 6 seconds (on a good day), dates aren't memory resident to me, math IS torture, and the only thing I have is artistic talent, creativity, and a mediocre command of language. The only shot I have in the Big World of Spine-Eating Corporations is what I've been doing my whole life (drawing) and by bringing it to the next level.

So when you say that you prefer the sites that rob the hard work from others, you vote in favor for destroying my future, and the futures of others like me. I RESENT that.

Hey Tom, you probly wont be reading this far back but just to tellya ive been coming here since 97 (I was 9 lol) and iv always loved this site. I completly agree with you about these morons who dont apreciate newgrouns but on a more realistic sense your way is the only good way of showing off flash so just remember this one thing. If a guy copies you it just mean your idea was so perfect he couldn't resist.

How was this site founded?
Once upon a time, I (Cableshaft) was an Newgrounds.com junkie. I loved that place dearly, and it had a similar system set up for Flash artists. On the side, it had a few pages set up for websites, art, and videos as well. Well, I got greedy and started a petition for there to be, at the very least, a writing forum, and at the most, the separate section set up for writers to submit their work and compare with others. It was a complete failure, but the idea still stuck in my head and I decided I'd look into making the site myself someday. Two years later, my brother started getting big into web programming, and took on my site idea to allow him to practice his PHP and MySQL skills. And here it is now. I also know PHP and MySQL decently enough myself, so if he isn't good about working on the site I'll just step in and mess up his code and piss him off enough for him to come back to it.

I haven't updated that FAQ in a year and a half (and boy does it show!)

Anyway, sex aside, almost all of my work is originally inspired by NG. Back when I was some little kid starting high school I found Newgrounds. I thought (and still do) that this was the most awesome site ever made- I saw the dawn of the Portal! But I agree that the sites that have a Portal of their own know they got the idea of Newgrounds. If I ever decide to borrow a type of Portal, I will defenitely place an 'Inspired by NG' banner on it.
*End of Patriotic Mindless Talking*

I've seen many sites that have a portal, or they just change the name, and I think it's pretty stupid to have so many sites with flash portals.
One site would be http://www.smosh.com
Thier "gateway" is almost the same as Newgrounds.

dude... tom... i'm sorry... I solemly swear to remember who came up with the portal FIRST every time I see one, and I will remember who deserves all that credit. the very one that raised me as an animator faithful newgroundian. You. I thank you for all that you have done for me.

Before I begin, I think I should mention a few basic things about intellectual property law since it seems to be somewhat misused in this thread. BTW, to the chagrin of some who seem to think that suing is so easy, think again. Lawsuits take at least a year before they get to court, and with lawyers charging $400/hr, think how much that can add up to.

Copyright - A copyright protects works of expression, such as art, music, dramatic, and architectural work. For example, every flash submitted to the portal is eligible for copyright protection. And every song you download has a copyright protection.

Patent - A patent protects any new and useful process, invention, or machinery. The George Forman Grill, disposable boxer shorts, and the Amazon.com "one-click" ordering system would be eligible for patent protection. So it is likely that the flash portal would also qualify for patent protection.

Do you see the difference? Mainly these laws are here to make sure that the original composer or inventor gets rewarded for their creativity.

However, since as a social benefit, it is better in the long run to have free information, there is a limit to the protection to patents and copyrights. Patents are protected for 20 years and copyrights for 70 years after the author's death.

Tom is correct from a social perspective. If something is good, then people tend to create their own versions of it. Look at reality TV. It began with Survivor and now it has turned into wife-swap and a show where the contestants fight each other to adopt a baby.

But having other portal sites also promotes competition which in the long run is good for others. Other people may have cool ideas too. There is a subtle difference between blatant copying and putting a twist on an existing idea. Based on Tom's rant, it seems that there is some sort of tacit approval among the webmasters to let each other be. If that's the case, then by all means go with it. Im sure that NG can learn from other portal sites just as other sites have learned from NG.

The point is, copying is not really a big deal. Copycats are just trying to accomplish what the creators of NG has done: become popular internet personalities. If all of the previous posters are correct, then this site, with its huge following should remain extremely popular for a long time. But more users also means more POS works.

The only time copying is a a big deal is when money is involved, as Im sure the RIAA has shown. To the NG staff, I dont know what Newgrounds means to you financially, but if you think this may be an issue, I suggest that you speak with an intellectual property attorney. I highly recommend going to www.ipwatchdog.com. There's a lot of useful information there and the webmaster was my patent law professor.

I have to hand it to you, Tom. I've been here since 1999. Admittedly not as long as others, but I have watched this site grow substantiably(sp?). I was here when you had spoilers to Freddy Got Fingered on the front page. I was here when Lavender Hill Mob was a big part of the site, with music all over the place. I saw the original Strawberry Clock, and what it all turned into. I've seen a lot, but what I never did understand is how you've endured so long. I would have said 'to hell with you ungrateful bastards' a long time ago and shut NG down. I don't understand it. Why do all this hardwork if people are going to jack it the very second they see it's popular? Not to mention all the money it costs you guys. I just don't see how you guys put up with it all. It just seems like a lose-lose situation. Then again, this is why I don't run NG, and you guys do.

If I had my way, which i do not, you'd never make Pico 2. If I had my way, you replace this entire site with a singular picture of the entire Newgrounds crew flipping the bird to the collective morons of the internet. If I had my way, you'd take your job as a videogame designer and leave this entire part of your life behind.

But why? Why do you put up with it all? I like to think its all for fans like me, and the thousands of other loyal NGers who've watched this place grow like it was their own, not the n00bs who jump on the bandwagon. Or maybe it's just because you know you were the first, and everyone who matters does too.

Whatever your reasons for sticking it out, I'm with you. As are the others, I'm sure. Just, at the risk of sounding cliche, keep it real. Never forget.

I totally agree. I think a simple collection of flash is fine, but when they steal under judgement, the layout, and all that, it's just pathetic. They could at the very least try to make it themselves, instead of stealing your code and altering 1% of it or less. That is bullshit.

As a webmaster of such a site that Tom talks about (I won't plug it, but I'm sure you can figure it out), the first response that comes to mind is "Imitation is the best form of flattery." You should be proud that your ideas were deemed good enough to be copied by others. I understand that that may or may not mean much to some, but to me, that would be a huge honor.

I must make it clear that I have a huge amount of respect for NG. I didn't create my site to rip it off, but rather for personal experience with PHP. A learning experience. I don't see the point in me making a PHP site using ideas that I don't find particularly interesting. As a flash artist myself, A flash portal was a natural selection for my site, if not for others to submit their stuff, then for me to have a place of my own to submit to.

At 6/9/04 01:21 PM, TomFulp wrote:
took all of our ideas and simply mirrored them for their own gain.

That hurts. I don't gain a thing from running my site, the minute amout of money the banners on my site make are in the hopes of actually paying the bandwidth costs (which they don't.) I imagine that most people who run these sites are under the same banner as me, just some dumb bored kids looking for something to do.

I feel ya Tom. To think there wasn't even much of a credit given.. Arrgh, I'm gettin even more pissed after visiting that flipsided.com, which the 16 yr old author had been working hard on. What fucking work!? It wouldn't have been so bad if he hadn't incorporated the whole copycat flash section to the website Someone should teach him something about appreciation and respect for other people's work ....it's such a sad thing [img]http://www.erowebs.org/forums/images/smilies/new/reddisgust.gif[/img]