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Tuesday, 24 March 2015

Paul Craig Roberts interview

I
had been wanting to interview Paul Craig Roberts for a long time
already. For many years I have been following his writings and
interviews and every time I read what he had to say I was hoping that
one day I would have the privilege do interview him about the nature
of the US deep state and the Empire. Recently, I emailed him and
asked for such an interview, and he very kindly agreed. I am very
grateful to him for this opportunity.

The Saker
——-The Saker:
It has become rather obvious to many, if not most, people that the
USA is not a democracy or a republic, but rather a plutocracy run by
a small elite which some call “the 1%”. Others speak of the
“deep state”. So my first question to you is the
following. Could you please take the time to assess the
influence and power of each of the following entities one by one.
In particular, can you specify for each of the following whether it
has a decision-making “top” position, or a decision-implementing
“middle” position in the real structure of power (listed in no
specific order)

Who, which group, what
entity would you consider is really at the apex of power in the
current US polity?Paul Craig
Roberts:
The US is ruled by private interest groups and by the neoconservative
ideology that History has chosen the US as the “exceptional and
indispensable” country with the right and responsibility to impose
its will on the world.In my opinion the most
powerful of the private interest groups are:

The Military/security
Complex

The 4 or 5 mega-sized “banks too big to fail” and Wall
Street

The Israel Lobby

Agribusiness

The Extractive
industries (oil, mining, timber).

The interests of these
interest groups coincide with those of the neoconservatives. The
neoconservative ideology supports American financial and
military-political imperialism or hegemony.There is no
independent American print or TV media. In the last years of
the Clinton regime, 90% of the print and TV media was concentrated in
6 mega-companies. During the Bush regime, National Public Radio
lost its independence. So the media functions as a Ministry of
Propaganda.Both political
parties, Republicans and Democrats, are dependent on the same private
interest groups for campaign funds, so both parties dance to the same
masters. Jobs offshoring destroyed the manufacturing and
industrial unions and deprived the Democrats of Labor Union political
contributions. In those days, Democrats represented the working
people and Republicans represented business.The Federal Reserve is
there for the banks, mainly the large ones.The Federal Reserve was
created as lender of last resort to prevent banks from failing
because of runs on the bank or withdrawal of deposits. The New
York Fed, which conducts the financial interventions, has a board
that consists of the executives of the big banks. The last
three Federal Reserve chairmen have been Jews, and the current vice
chairman is the former head of the Israeli central bank. Jews are
prominent in the financial sector, for example, Goldman Sachs.
In recent years, the US Treasury Secretaries and heads of the
financial regulatory agencies have mainly been the bank executives
responsible for the fraud and excessive debt leverage that set off
the last financial crisis.In the 21st century,
the Federal Reserve and Treasury have served only the interests of
the large banks. This has been at the expense of the economy
and the population. For example, retired people have had no interest
income for eight years in order that the financial institutions can
borrow at zero costs and make money.No matter how rich
some families are, they cannot compete with powerful interest groups
such as the military/security complex or Wall Street and the banks.
Long established wealth can look after its interests, and some, such
as the Rockefellers, have activist foundations that most likely
work hand in hand with the National Endowment for Democracy to fund
and encourage various pro-American non-governmental organizations
(NGOs) in countries that the US wants to influence or overthrow, such
as occurred in Ukraine. The NGOs are essentially US Fifth
Columns and operate under such names as “human rights,” “democracy,” etc. A Chinese professor told me that the
Rockefeller Foundation had created an American University in China
and is used to organize various anti-regime Chinese. At one
time, and perhaps still, there were hundreds of US and German
financed NGOs in Russia, possibly as many as 1,000.I don’t know if the
Bilderbergs do the same. Possibly they are just very rich
people and have their proteges in governments who try to protect
their interests. I have never seen any signs of Bilderbergs or
Masons or Rothchilds affecting congressional or executive branch
decisions.On the other hand, the
Council for Foreign Relations is influential. The council
consists of former government policy officials and academics involved
in foreign policy and international relations. The council’s
publication, Foreign Affairs, is the premier foreign policy forum.
Some journalists are also members. When I was proposed for membership
in the 1980s, I was blackтballed.Skull & Bones is a
Yale University secret fraternity. A number of universities
have such secret fraternities. For example, the University of
Virginia has one, and the University of Georgia. These
fraternities do not have secret governmental plots or ruling powers.
Their influence would be limited to the personal influence of the
members, who tend to be sons of elite families. In my opinion,
these fraternities exist to convey elite status to members.
They have no operational functions.The Saker:
What about individuals? Who are, in your opinion, the most
powerful people in the USA today? Who takes the final, top
level, strategic decision?Paul Craig
Roberts:
There really are no people powerful in themselves. Powerful
people are ones that powerful interest groups are behind. Ever
since Secretary of Defense William Perry privatized so much of the
military in 1991, the military/security complex has been
extremely powerful, and its power is further amplified by its ability
to finance political campaigns and by the fact that it is a source of
employment in many states. Essentially Pentagon expenditures are
controlled by defense contractors.The Saker:
I have always believed that in international terms, organizations
such as NATO, the EU or all the others are only a front, and that the
real alliance which controls the planet are the ECHELON countries:
US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand aka “AUSCANNZUKUS”
(they are also referred to as the “Anglosphere” or the “Five
Eyes”) with the US and the UK are the senior partners while Canada,
Australia and New Zealand are the junior partners here. Is this
model correct?Paul Craig
Roberts:
NATO was a US creation allegedly to protect Europe from a Soviet
invasion. Its purpose expired in 1991. Today NATO
provides cover for US aggression and provides mercenary forces for
the American Empire. Britain, Canada, Australia, are simply US
vassal states just as are Germany, France, Italy, Japan and the
rest. There are no partners; just vassals. It is
Washington’s empire, no one else’s.The US favors the EU,
because it is easier to control than the individual countries.The Saker:
It is often said that Israel controls the USA. Chomsky, and
others, say that it is the USA which controls Israel. How would
you characterize the relationship between Israel and the USA – does
the dog wag the tail or does the tail wag the dog? Would you
say that the Israel Lobby is in total control of the USA or are there
still other forces capable of saying “no” to the Israel Lobby and
impose their own agenda?Paul Craig
Roberts:
I have never seen any evidence that the US controls Israel. All
the evidence is that Israel controls the US, but only its MidEast
policy. In recent years, Israel or the Israel Lobby, has been
able to control or block academic appointments in the US and tenure
for professors considered to be critics of Israel. Israel has
successfully reached into both Catholic and State universities to
block tenure and appointments. Israel can also block some
presidential appointments and has vast influence over the print and
TV media. The Israel Lobby also has plenty of money for
political campaign funds and never fails to unseat US Representatives
and Senators considered critical of Israel. The Israel lobby
was able to reach into the black congressional district of Cynthia
McKinney, a black woman, and defeat her reelection. As Admiral
Tom Moorer, Chief of Naval Operations and Chairman of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff, said: “No American President can stand up to
Israel.” Adm. Moorer could not even get an official
investigation of Israel’s deadly attack on the USS Liberty in 1967.Anyone who criticizes
Israeli policies even in a helpful way is labeled an “anti-Semite.”In American politics,
media, and universities, this is a death-dealing blow. You
might as well get hit with a hellfire missile.The Saker:
Which of the 12 entities of power which I listed above have, in your
opinion, played a key role in the planning and execution of the 9/11
“false flag” operation? After all, it is hard to imagine
that this was planned and prepared between the inauguration of GW
Bush and September 11th – it must have been prepared during the
years of the Clinton Administration. Is it not true the the
Oklahoma City bombing was a rehearsal for 9/11?Paul Craig
Roberts:
In my opinion 9/11 was the product of the neoconservatives, almost
all of whom are Jewish, Dick Cheney, and Israel. Its purpose
was to provide “the new Pearl Harbor” that the neoconservatives
said was necessary to launch their wars of conquest in the Middle
East. I don’t know how far back it was planned, but
Silverstein was obviously part of it and he had not had the WTC for
very long before 9/11.As for the bombing of
the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, US Air Force General
Partin, the Air Force’s munitions expert, prepared an expert
report proving beyond all doubt that the building blew up from the
inside out and that the truck bomb was cover. Congress and the
media ignored his report. The patsy, McVeigh, was already
set up, and that was the only story allowed.The Saker:
Do you think that the people who run the USA today realize that they
are on a collision course with Russia which could lead to
thermonuclear war? If yes, why would they take such a risk? Do
they really believe that at the last moment Russian will “blink”
and back down, or do they actually believe that they can win a
nuclear war? Are they not afraid that in a nuclear
conflagration with Russia they will lose everything they have,
including their power and even their lives?Paul Craig
Roberts:
I am as puzzled as much as you. I think Washington is lost in
hubris and arrogance and is more or less insane. Also, there
is belief that the US can win a nuclear war with Russia. There
was an article in Foreign Affairs around 2005 or 2006 in which this
conclusion was reached. The belief in the winnability of
nuclear war has been boosted by faith in ABM defenses. The
argument is that the US can hit Russia so hard in a preemptive first
strike that Russia would not retaliate in fear of a second blow.The Saker:
How do you assess the current health of the Empire? For many
years we have seen clear signs of decline, but there is still not
visible collapse. Do you believe that such a collapse is
inevitable and, if not, how could it be prevented? Will we see
the day when the US Dollar suddenly become worthless or will another
mechanism precipitate the collapse of this Empire?Paul Craig
Roberts:
The US economy is hollowed out. There has been no real median
family income growth for decades. Alan Greenspan as Fed
Chairman used an expansion of consumer credit to take the place of
the missing growth in consumer income, but the population is now too
indebted to take on more. So there is nothing to drive the
economy. So many manufacturing and tradable professional
service jobs such as software engineering have been moved offshore
that the middle class has shrunk. University graduates cannot
get jobs that support an independent existence. So they can’t
form households, buy houses, appliances and home furnishings.
The government produces low inflation measures by not measuring
inflation and low unemployment rates by not measuring unemployment.
The financial markets are rigged, and gold is driven down despite
rising demand by selling uncovered shorts in the futures market.
It is a house of cards that has stood longer than I thought
possible. Apparently, the house of cards can stand until the
rest of the world ceases to hold the US dollar as reserves.Possibly the empire
has put too much stress on Europe by involving Europe in a conflict
with Russia. If Germany, for example, were to pull out of NATO,
the empire would collapse, or if Russia can find the wits to finance
Greece, Italy, and Spain in exchange for them leaving the Euro and
EU, the empire would suffer a fatal blow.Alternatively, Russia
might tell Europe that Russia has no alternative but to target
European capitals with nuclear weapons now that Europe has joined the
US in conducting war against Russia.The Saker:
Russia and China have done something unique in history and they have
gone beyond the traditional model of forming an alliance: they have
agreed to become interdependent – one could say that they have
agreed to a symbiotic relationship. Do you believe that those
in charge of the Empire have understood the tectonic change which has
just happen or are they simply going into deep denial because reality
scares them too much?Paul Craig
Roberts:
Stephen Cohen says that there is simply no foreign policy
discussion. There is no debate. I think the empire thinks
that it can destabilize Russia and China and that is one reason
Washington has color revolutions working in Armenia, Kyrgyzstan, and
Uzbekistan. As Washington is determined to prevent the rise of other
powers and is lost in hubris and arrogance, Washington probably
believes that it will succeed. After all, History chose
Washington.The Saker:
In your opinion, do presidential elections still matter and, if yes,
what is your best hope for 2016? I am personally very afraid of
Hillary Clinton whom I see as an exceptionally dangerous and outright
evil person, but with the current Neocon influence inside the
Republican, can we really hope for a non-Neocon candidate to win the
GOP nomination?Paul Craig
Roberts:
The only way a presidential election could matter would be if the
elected president had behind him a strong movement. Without a
movement, the president has no independent power and no one to
appoint who will do his bidding. Presidents are captives.
Reagan had something of a movement, just enough that we were able to
cure stagflation despite Wall Street’s opposition and we were able
to end the cold war despite the opposition of the CIA and the
military/security complex. Plus Reagan was very old and came
from a long time ago. He assumed the office of the president
was powerful and acted that way.The Saker:
What about the armed forces? Can you imagine a Chairman of the
JCS saying “no, Mr President, that is crazy, we will not do this”
or do you expect the generals to obey any order, including one
starting a nuclear war against Russia? Do you have any hope
that the US military could step in and stop the “crazies”
currently in power in the White House and Congress?Paul Craig
Roberts:
The US military is a creature of the armaments industries. The
whole purpose of making general is to be qualified to be a consultant
to the “defense” industry, or to become an executive or on the
board of a “defense” contractor. The military serves as the
source of retirement careers when the generals make the big money.
The US military is totally corrupt. Read Andrew Cockburn’s
book, Kill Chain.The Saker:
If the USA is really deliberately going down the path towards war
with Russia – what should Russia do? Should Russia back down
and accept to be subjugated as a preferable option to a thermonuclear
war, or should Russia resist and thereby accept the possibility of a
thermonuclear war? Do you believe that a very deliberate and
strong show of strength on the part of Russia could deter a US
attack?Paul Craig
Roberts:
I have often wondered about this. I can’t say that I know.
I think Putin is humane enough to surrender rather than to be part of
the destruction of the world, but Putin has to answer to others
inside Russia and I doubt the nationalists would stand for surrender.In my opinion, I think
Putin should focus on Europe and make Europe aware that Russia
expects an American attack and will have no choice except to wipe out
Europe in response. Putin should encourage Europe to break off
from NATO in order to prevent World War 3.Putin should also make
sure China understands that China represents the same perceived
threat to the US as Russia and that the two countries need to stand
together. Perhaps if Russia and China were to maintain their
forces on a nuclear alert, not the top one, but an elevated one that
conveyed recognition of the American threat and conveyed this threat
to the world, the US could be isolated.Perhaps if the Indian
press, the Japanese Press, the French and German press, the UK press,
the Chinese and Russian press began reporting that Russia and China
wonder if they will receive a pre-emptive nuclear attack from
Washington the result would be to prevent the attack.As far as I can tell
from my many media interviews with the Russian media, there is no
Russian awareness of the Wolfowitz Doctrine. Russians think that
there is some kind of misunderstanding about Russian intentions.
The Russian media does not understand that Russia is unacceptable,
because Russia is not a US vassal. Russians believe all the Western
bullshit about “freedom and democracy” and believe that they are
short on both but making progress. In other words, Russians
have no idea that they are targeted for destruction.The Saker:
What are, in your opinion, the roots of the hatred of so many members
of the US elites for Russia? Is that just a leftover from the
Cold War, or is there another reason for the almost universal
russophobia amongst US elites? Even during the Cold War, it was
unclear whether the US was anti-Communist or anti-Russian? Is
there something in the Russian culture, nation or civilization which
triggers that hostility and, if yes, what is it?Paul Craig
Roberts:
The hostility toward Russia goes back to the Wolfowttz Doctrine:“Our first
objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on
the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a
threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This
is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense
strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power
from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated
control, be sufficient to generate global power.”While the US was
focused on its MidEast wars, Putin restored Russia and blocked
Washington’s planned invasion of Syria and bombing of Iran.
The “first objective” of the neocon doctrine was breached.
Russia had to be brought into line. That is the origin of
Washington’s attack on Russia. The dependent and captive US
and European media simply repeats “the Russian Threat” to the
public, which is insouciant and otherwise uninformed.The offense of Russian
culture is also there–Christian morals, respect for law and
humanity, diplomacy in place of coercion, traditional social
mores–but these are in the background. Russia is hated
because Russia (and China) is a check on Washington’s unilateral
uni-power. This check is what will lead to war.If the Russians and
Chinese do not expect a pre-emptive nuclear attack from Washington,
they will be destroyed.