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Baggers, how long will NSW persevere with Maddinson? Usually when they get a taste of the baggy green they come back a better performer. Since his baggy green he's been averaging 18.25. Even with the talk of him opening the batting for Australia thus his move to opener, do you think NSW can continue carrying him when there are some youthful NSW players biting at the bit to get an opportunity?

You were impressed with Nevill's catch Baggers, How about Peirson's "anything you can do I can do better" pearler. The Qld tradition of producing outstanding keepers continues. If he can produce the runs like he did last year filling in for Hartley (scoring 209 runs at 41.80) he'll put pressure on the keeping spot in a couple of years. But surely Bancroft has to get the gloves for the first test.Peirsons was not quite.. but close. Two outstanding keeper snares. I have plenty of time for Peirson as a keeper Mike . After all you do not get to national level (U19) without having some skill. It has been his inablility with the bat up until last season. Still getting starts this year without going on. Go back a post or two Mike and read I said I have seen worse keepers than Bancroft and having him in the top six somewhere would open a spot for another bowler or batsman. Mick tells me he has scored 600 runs or so in his last 4 FC matches.

Last edited by baggygreenmania on Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

MikeR68 wrote:Baggers, how long will NSW persevere with Maddinson? Usually when they get a taste of the baggy green they come back a better performer. Since his baggy green he's been averaging 18.25. Even with the talk of him opening the batting for Australia thus his move to opener, do you think NSW can continue carrying him when there are some youthful NSW players biting at the bit to get an opportunity?

Pretty much agree Mike. He does not have it between the ears. Shame as he has mountains of natural talent. Much like Maxwell and several others. Henriques for instance.

Mike gotta say I am having trouble working out how Neser continues to get picked ahead of Ben Cutting. Cutts has a better average @28 with ball and 28 with the bat and can add powerful late and valuable runs. whereas Neser has a @31 with ball and similar with bat. Hell Cutts is a specialist opening bowler and at 30/31yrs is not yet completely over the hill.

Daniel Hughes (98*) has put the Blues in a strong place against the Bulls at stumps on the second day.The Chrome Dome Dougie had 2-0 after sending Burns and Renshaw packing early. Bancrofts chances of an Ashes debut is now almost set in stone with his second double century in his past four FC games. Just a matter of whether he will be opener or in the top six. Former baggy green Alex Doolan has tutned back the clock with a patient ton in the clash with the Bushrangers.

Last edited by baggygreenmania on Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Guys we are getting to carried away with Career averages, they are at best a useful tool. Handscomb averages 53, he's played 10 tests only, what was Steve Smiths batting average after 10 tests or Mat Haydens or Steve Waughs. You should be waiting till they play at least 20-25 tests before quoting averages, thats when they start getting meaningful. A good example of how quickly a average can improve is Cam Bancroft, 4 FC matches ago his average was 34.62, now its 39.75 and he has played 65 matches!Baggers Ben Cutting has hardly played a Red Ball match in the last 3 years, Neser has taken 15 wkts at 14.66 this season there is your answer.When is the Test side getting announced? anyone want to guess the side. I think Bancroft is a dead set, probably for Renshaw who im afraid is just too horribly out of form right now, Pace bowlers are already picked, Lyon will be the Spinner, I'm predicting Maxwell for no 6, Keeper haven't the foggiest, Bancroft will get it if the Selectors think his Keeping is good enough and Renshaw retain his spot. But going to be interesting.

Mick180461 wrote:Guys we are getting to carried away with Career averages, they are at best a useful tool. Handscomb averages 53, he's played 10 tests only, what was Steve Smiths batting average after 10 tests or Mat Haydens or Steve Waughs. You should be waiting till they play at least 20-25 tests before quoting averages, thats when they start getting meaningful. A good example of how quickly a average can improve is Cam Bancroft, 4 FC matches ago his average was 34.62, now its 39.75 and he has played 65 matches!Baggers Ben Cutting has hardly played a Red Ball match in the last 3 years, Neser has taken 15 wkts at 14.66 this season there is your answer.When is the Test side getting announced? anyone want to guess the side. I think Bancroft is a dead set, probably for Renshaw who im afraid is just too horribly out of form right now, Pace bowlers are already picked, Lyon will be the Spinner, I'm predicting Maxwell for no 6, Keeper haven't the foggiest, Bancroft will get it if the Selectors think his Keeping is good enough and Renshaw retain his spot. But going to be interesting.

Wait until 20-25 tests Mick, that's an easy way to eliminate 350 of the 450 chosen Australian players from the stats. Got to disagree with you there Steve Smith, Matt Hayden and Steve Waugh were all dropped initially because they had problems and that reflected in their stats. They had to go back to first class cricket for a while to sort out their problems, and all came back for the better. Handscomb is averaging 53 currently in tests and that is a good stat which places him in no doubt for his inclusion for the Ashes series. It would take a brave man to drop someone like him, because once dropped you are dropping someone who could average 50 for the series if his form continues. As for Bancroft the massive improvement in his stats is the reason he is being noticed at the moment, 34.62 doesn't get him selected, but wow his start to this season is incredible and reflects in his stats pushing it up to 40 and that gets him noticed. I agree with you that Bancroft comes in for Renshaw. And if they do the right thing and he keeps wicket, who are the two batsmen that go 6 and 7? Maxwell and Cartwright? Would selectors be tempted with M Marsh at 7? Problem is there is no one presently putting their hand up. Or do they go with youth and go Lehmann or Patterson. But going Bancroft for Renshaw does open more options available for Australia. But if they just throw Nevill or Wade in at 7 it loses some of the advantage that Bancroft brings.

If you are going to ask Bancroft to open and Keep than you play someone at 7 who can bowl, Marsh can't at present so that rules him out.Handscomb will and should be in the test Side but it will take only 2 bad tests for that average to drop to below 40 and that is why i really think its a waste of time quoting averages after 10 tests these days.

Baggers, Larkin, Gibson and Sangha all gone cheaply again. Sangha falling across the stumps this time, back to the drawing board for him. I'll be interested in Harry Nielson, very promising start to his career for SA.

Yeh Gibson and Sangha disappointing. Missing a golden opportunity as selectors smile favorably on good CAX1/NPS performances. Guess they will have to do it the traditional way. Runs for the Blues. Doolan now the second double s century maker in last two days.

A lot not to like about NSW batting performance, especially Warner and Smith. The should be fine tuning their batting for the 1st test against a state bowling attack, barely, a lot of arrogance in the batting, losing 4/15. 2 out for the hook for Warner and what does he do? Straight down the throat of Doggart. Don't know what Smith was doing clean bowled middle stump. Sheer arrogance, no other explanation.

baggygreenmania wrote:Yeh Gibson and Sangha disappointing. Missing a golden opportunity as selectors smile favorably on good CAX1/NPS performances. Guess they will have to do it the traditional way. Runs for the Blues. Doolan now the second double s century maker in last two days.

Is there any other way, Baggers, apart from knuckling down and doing the hard work, which applies to every job doesn't it? Matt Short trying to put some respectability into the innings, again.

Everyone has Bancroft playing the First Test. Yes he deserves his chance after all he was to have made his Test debut in 2015 but for the cancellation of the Bangladesh tour. He has certainly made an irresistible case for selection with two double centuries in his last four FC matches. But for Hilton Cartwright to be dumped for no good reason just to fit in an in form player is sending the wrong message to Test aspirants. As the incumbent the West Australian and the sadly out of form Matthew Renshaw should be given at least the first two Tests of the series to prove themselves.

baggygreenmania wrote:Everyone has Bancroft playing the First Test. Yes he deserves his chance after all he was to have made his Test debut in 2015 but for the cancellation of the Bangladesh tour. He has certainly made an irresistible case for selection with two double centuries in his last four FC matches. But for Hilton Cartwright to be dumped for no good reason just to fit in an in form player is sending the wrong message to Test aspirants. As the incumbent the West Australian and the sadly out of form Matthew Renshaw should be given at least the first two Tests of the series to prove themselves.

If Bancroft bats at 6, then he should keep, and then there is no reason to replace Cartwright for Nevill. Cartwright brings a bit of bowling and is a superior batsman than Nevill. To have Bancroft and Nevill at 6 and 7 would be stupidity. If they do, Bancroft will have to rely on partnerships with Starc and Cummins for any chance to score runs. If Bancroft is in, then Cartwright should be selected. The question is does Bancroft replace Renshaw, and based on form I think he should.

The question you need to ask about Bancroft is, is he's Keeping good enough to handle Lyon on a wearing last day wkt, handling pace bowlers on a flat road is one thing handling them on a wearing wkt that is cracked and spinning is entirely another.

Mick I am a bit your way here. I would blood Bancroft as keeper/batsmen against weaker opposition than England. Give him the gloves for the ODIs that follow the Test series. For how many FC matches has he kept...three. Nowhere near enuff. I have to have Nevill with the gloves as you want your most technically correct keeper against strong opposition.

MikeR68 wrote:Bit of a worry for Matt Short having to bowl so early, England's openers having no trouble with the CAXI opening bowlers. Hope Australia's bowlers are watching, Mark Stoneman is powerful off the legs.

Is this CA giving England a false sense of security leading into the Gaba opener by picking such a weak bowling attack. Cook and Stoneman look in no trouble as the pacers are applying so little pressure. Harry Conway has played a handful of FC games as have the other two Milenko and Coleman. Fallins is promising but has yet to don a baggy blue.

baggygreenmania wrote:Mick I am a bit your way here. I would blood Bancroft as keeper/batsmen against weaker opposition than England. Give him the gloves for the ODIs that follow the Test series. For how many FC matches has he kept...three. Nowhere near enuff. I have to have Nevill with the gloves as you want your most technically correct keeper against strong opposition.

If that is the case Baggers then Bancroft needs to replace Renshaw who does appear to be out of form. I feel for the young bloke, but a couple of years back at FC level, then back in the side to replace Warner when he's 24. Cartwright still plays, and Nevill is in the side as keeper. I'd even bat Starc at 7 and move Nevill down to 8. Starc has produced good runs for NSW this season and has for Australia in the past, more than what Nevill has. You obviously don't rate Carey's chances, though he has scored more runs this season than Nevill.

Last edited by MikeR68 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

MikeR68 wrote:Bit of a worry for Matt Short having to bowl so early, England's openers having no trouble with the CAXI opening bowlers. Hope Australia's bowlers are watching, Mark Stoneman is powerful off the legs.

Is this CA giving England a false sense of security leading into the Gaba opener by picking such a weak bowling attack. Cook and Stoneman look in no trouble as the pacers are applying so little pressure. Harry Conway has played a handful of FC games as have the other two Milenko and Coleman. Fallins is promising but has yet to don a baggy blue.

When I look at this, we cannot complain when we travel to England and get nothing in preparation for tests, and we have been complaining. Honestly watching Sandhu jog in to deliver the ball is insulting to England. They'd be better off with net practice. If we are serious in expecting quality warm up games in England we should be reciprocating. What's wrong with the Qld side playing in this match in Townsville. False sense is right Baggers Sandhu's 120 kms against Starc and Cummins over 140. It not a decent preparation.

When I look at this, we cannot complain when we travel to England and get nothing in preparation for tests, and we have been complaining. Tit for tat. Feel for the Tassie boys being denied a good chance of victory and vital shield points over the fickle Vic weather. Doolan must be feeling rather sick specially.

baggygreenmania wrote:Mick I am a bit your way here. I would blood Bancroft as keeper/batsmen against weaker opposition than England. Give him the gloves for the ODIs that follow the Test series. For how many FC matches has he kept...three. Nowhere near enuff. I have to have Nevill with the gloves as you want your most technically correct keeper against strong opposition. I do rate Carey Mike tho not in these Ashes unless we have won them already. Bit harsh to blood any cricketer against England, the Saffers or India at home. I would take Carey as Nevills back up to Sth Africa in the New Years. I have to say I love the way Tim Paine goes about his work. He looks as tho he was born to keep.

If that is the case Baggers then Bancroft needs to replace Renshaw who does appear to be out of form. I feel for the young bloke, but a couple of years back at FC level, then back in the side to replace Warner when he's 24. Cartwright still plays, and Nevill is in the side as keeper. I'd even bat Starc at 7 and move Nevill down to 8. Starc has produced good runs for NSW this season and has for Australia in the past, more than what Nevill has. You obviously don't rate Carey's chances, though he has scored more runs this season than Nevill.

In the last few tours to England we would play weakened England County teams that would be of a similar standard to these CA11, the days of States & Countys regarding the Touring side as Marquee games are long gone. They use them as a chance to blood young talent or as a springboard for players returning from injury.

Peter Nevells FC record in 89 matches of 4344 runs@39* suggests he is a much better batsman then he has shown so far at Test level. For whatever reason he has not handled the transition to Test level with the bat and that happens, the game is littered with players with phenomenal FC records but poor test records, Michael Bevan here in Australia never looked like he was going to make it as a Test Batsman.Includes his Test Career*.

Jake Weatherald has powered his second ton of the match on the WACA "road" joining with Ferguson to take the match completely away from the Warriors. This will pump up his moderate FC average. Redbacks cantered in by five wickets.

Last edited by baggygreenmania on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Are my eyes deceiving me or did I just read that Tim Paine is set to win the keeper spot for the First Test. I actually tipped the same thing last week as he won the spot as Australia's T20 keeper. Many pundits still rate Paine as one of the best glovemen in the country. To watch him at work it is easy to see why. Is fate finally set to smile on the amiable Tasmanian after a cruel finger injury robbed him of the national keeping spot in 2010.

baggygreenmania wrote:Are my eyes deceiving me or did I just read that Tim Paine is set to win the keeper spot for the First Test. I actually tipped the same thing last week as he won the spot as Australia's T20 keeper. Many pundits still rate Paine as one of the best glovemen in the country. To watch him at work it is easy to see why. Is fate finally set to smile on the amiable Tasmanian after a cruel finger injury robbed him of the national keeping spot in 2010.

To myself, it would be the smartest thing the selectors have done in the past couple of years. He looked good in the 1st innings against England, and got a beautiful delivery in the 2nd innings that would have sent Smith packing, there's nothing anyone can do about those types of deliveries. He is the best keeper in Australia IMO currently, and if Nevill was selected, when he is currently in the worst form I've ever seen from him, dropping catches and minimal runs, it would be a travesty for the batting line-up.

baggygreenmania wrote::hatsoff:Jake Weatherald has powered his second ton of the match on the WACA "road" joining with Ferguson to take the match completely away from the Warriors. This will pump up his moderate FC average. Redbacks cantered in by five wickets.

At only 23 he is one to watch for the future, especially when father time catches up to Warner. Very consistent now at both forms FC and ListA. But when one rises another falls, and I think Travis Head has hit the ground with a thump. Another all-rounder who is not spending enough time on what he is good at, batting, the bowling training is taking up valuable net practice.Love the headline, "Stranded Maxwell in Shield Washout"...it's all about Glenn. Let's be honest it was going to be an embarrassing loss for the current shield holders, which doesn't look good for Handscomb form.Your boy Fallins is holding his head up high for CAXI, Baggers. Going for a few runs but taking a couple of wickets. Is just me or does Stoneman remind you of Tubby Taylor...same physical shape that is. A tad too many pork pies and pints I think.

Last edited by MikeR68 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am liking the shape the reported side may take. Bancroft in.... positive, Paine in....big positive, S MARSH?????....if the option was Maxwell, much of a muchness but Maxwell does offer something in bowling, but a batsman in the 6 position I can live with that. It's probably the best batting line up we have seen for a while.

and The Australian did another starting with poor Peter Nevill dragging his NSW kit through Brisbane airport.... the guy isn't even the incumbent keeper.

Stuart MacGill has put his 2 bobs worth in an article slamming the decision to snub Nevill. Really couldn't see that coming being a fellow NSWman.

Paine hasn't been officially selected yet and they're doing a hatchet job on him already, talk about pressure. Interesting that Ray Hadley announced last week that the Australian selectors ordered the Tasmanian selectors to put Wade in as keeper and Paine had to bat only, that is why he hasn't been keeping currently for Tasmania.Some idiot wrote that the tail now starts at No 7....Yeah and it didn't start at No6 with M Marsh and Nevill in the side. Idiots!!! Baggers aren't you an ex-journo? Maybe you should go back to the job, because they have some clowns in there at the moment. What goes through their minds when they print this garbage. Do they stand around in the local pub, thinking up the most ridiculous headlines? Talk about an 11th hour push to get the NSW player in.

and The Australian did another starting with poor Peter Nevill dragging his NSW kit through Brisbane airport.... the guy isn't even the incumbent keeper.

Stuart MacGill has put his 2 bobs worth in an article slamming the decision to snub Nevill. Really couldn't see that coming being a fellow NSWman.

Paine hasn't been officially selected yet and they're doing a hatchet job on him already, talk about pressure. Interesting that Ray Hadley announced last week that the Australian selectors ordered the Tasmanian selectors to put Wade in as keeper and Paine had to bat only, that is why he hasn't been keeping currently for Tasmania.Some idiot wrote that the tail now starts at No 7....Yeah and it didn't start at No6 with M Marsh and Nevill in the side. Idiots!!! Baggers aren't you an ex-journo? Maybe you should go back to the job, because they have some clowns in there at the moment. What goes through their minds when they print this garbage. Do they stand around in the local pub, thinking up the most ridiculous headlines? Talk about an 11th hour push to get the NSW player in.

Mike the standard of Journalism in this country has become a total joke, just write anything they want. I refuse to buy papers any more. Do you ever read the Fox Sports site? reads like forum posts. Full of writers who wouldn't know the difference between a Sherin and a Steeden or one end of a bat from the other.

I don't have a problem with the Aussie team, have always rated Paine behind the stumps and thats the most important thing, the critics have come out and said that Paine shouldn't be picked because he hasn't scored a 100 since 2006.

Mick just saw that team and noticed the Sydney Morning Herald and the Daily Telegraph are adding their 2 cents. As I said before it's probably the strongest batting line up for quite a while, probably since Hayden retired. You'll pick me at the Gabba test, I'll be wearing my Tim Paine shirt, Tim Paine mask, holding a "Tim Paine, you're the man" sign. Got to give the poor guy some support and he is deserving of selection. The only one that I can honestly say matched Hartley in keeping prowess. Slightly surprised by Sayers, but he's only there for coverage any way.

Tim Paine you little beauty! So Renshaw and Cartwright have been thrown to the wolves. Discarded like yesterdays newspaper. I like Bancroft as opener but not at the expense of the rookie. the kid must be shattered. Like that they have gone with a specialist at #6. But why SOS? This bloke has a charmed life.

baggygreenmania wrote:Tim Paine you little beauty! So Renshaw and Cartwright have been thrown to the wolves. Discarded like yesterdays newspaper. I like Bancroft opening but should have been at #6.They keep resurrecting SOSs career. Why.

Baggers you are like a broken record, every time someone is not selected, they've been thrown to the wolves. I think picking Renshaw totally out of form facing Anderson & Broad would be throwing him to the Wolves, Cartwright is probably the unlucky one.Been discarded like all papers should be, yesterdays, todays and tomorrows

baggygreenmania wrote:Tim Paine you little beauty! So Renshaw and Cartwright have been thrown to the wolves. Discarded like yesterdays newspaper. I like Bancroft opening but should have been at #6.They keep resurrecting SOSs career. Why.

Baggers you are like a broken record, every time someone is not selected, they've been thrown to the wolves. I think picking Renshaw totally out of form facing Anderson & Broad would be throwing him to the Wolves, Cartwright is probably the unlucky one.Been discarded like all papers should be, yesterdays, todays and tomorrows

Agree with you there Mick. At least this way he won't be demoralised as he would following a series of low scores. He just has to perform better to be noticed again. We don't know how Bancroft will handle the step up, so Renshaw just has to keep performing at Shield level and he may be back soon. I'll give the selectors credit, they did say score runs and you'll be promoted, and that is what Bancroft did. S Marsh and Bancroft's partnership of 175 against the Australian bowling attack did a lot for both of them, and that's why they're both in IMO and you can't fault that decision. I just hope it's not an aberration and a reflection of poor bowling, but the first test will tell. Bring it on.

Yes you could say Baggers is like a broken record fellars. What has happened to loyalty tho. Picking a bloke and giving him a fair run at the job? No room for sentimentality says Mick. I am all for rewarding form but reckon it is tuff on the underperforming incumbent. Having said that I suppose SOS deserves another shot. Like I say if Cartwright is not there then I would prefer a specialist at #6. Had they stayed with Renshaw I feel certain Bancroft would have been picked there.

I don't follow Aussie cricket as keenly as you guys - and I haven't even heard of Bancroft till now, but am just wondering what Renshaw has done wrong in his brief career until now.

He has shown temperament AND skill early in his career. And it's not like Australia is overflowing in batting talent right now.An Ashes series is every Aussie (and England) cricketer's dream. To drop him like this, does seem very harsh.

Bancroft .. a big talent on the way up. Can he take the big step up in such an important series. He was previously penciled in to debut against minnows Bangladesh..not England in an Ashes.

Smith (c) Does not need anymore to justify his selection.

Khawaja. Has an incredible home record. No reason why that can not continue this summer.

Handscomb. May currently average @53 but is scratching for FC runs at present. His form is no better than that of Renshaw.

SOS Marsh. Has been scoring runs in both formats this year. Last chance to cement a top 6 spot.

Paine. A popular selection given he was denied a long term Baggy Green when he suffered a shocking finger injury just as his Test career was starting. Still one of own most accomplished and skillful gloveman despite his 32 years.

raja wrote:I don't follow Aussie cricket as keenly as you guys - and I haven't even heard of Bancroft till now, but am just wondering what Renshaw has done wrong in his brief career until now.

He has shown temperament AND skill early in his career. And it's not like Australia is overflowing in batting talent right now.An Ashes series is every Aussie (and England) cricketer's dream. To drop him like this, does seem very harsh.

Current Australian selectors have changed tack and now instead of holding onto underperforming players prefer to replace them with form players. Renshaw was omitted because he can not buy a run this season.. just came off a poor sub continental tour too. I almost admit it was harsh on the kid but this setback will harden him and he will be a better player when he returns. Return he will as he is too good not to have a long Test career.

Bancroft has been on CA radar since 2012 when he made the Aussie U19 WC squad. Had a decent series if I recall. Had a strong first couple of Shield seasons then dropped off. Has hit back big this year with a strong English County cricket stint where he scored a double ton. Since then he can not stop compling big scores. Another double this week for his WA Warriors side.

baggygreenmania wrote:Yes you could say Baggers is like a broken record fellars. What has happened to loyalty tho. Picking a bloke and giving him a fair run at the job? No room for sentimentality says Mick. I am all for rewarding form but reckon it is tuff on the underperforming incumbent. Having said that I suppose SOS deserves another shot. Like I say if Cartwright is not there then I would prefer a specialist at #6. Had they stayed with Renshaw I feel certain Bancroft would have been picked there.

I admire your loyalty Baggers, but realistically you're forgetting one thing, a player by the name David Warner. A player who is more likely than not to throw his wicket away. Don't you feel better knowing that his opening partner is one that appears to be in fantastic form, rather than someone who has questionable form? A Questionable player could mean 2 down for not many and a lot of pressure on Khawaja and Smith. David Warner is not going anywhere, regardless of his performances. He will be in all 5 tests, he will be going to SA, and he will be in next summer's 6 tests against India and Sri Lanka, so his partner has to be the best available at the time, as Renshaw was when he was first selected. And in fairness to S Marsh he has shouldered a lot of blame for poor batting performances by Australia, but batting at 6 that will take the pressure off him, because it's not his fault if Australia go 4 down without many runs like previous occurrances.

raja wrote:I don't follow Aussie cricket as keenly as you guys - and I haven't even heard of Bancroft till now, but am just wondering what Renshaw has done wrong in his brief career until now.IHe has shown temperament AND skill early in his career. And it's not like Australia is overflowing in batting talent right now.An Ashes series is every Aussie (and England) cricketer's dream. To drop him like this, does seem very harsh.

Exactly the same reason as young Haseeb Hameed is not in the England side, he has completely lost the ability to score runs. Has scored just 71 runs @11.66 this Shield season, Renshaw has simply become unpickable. You haven't heard of Cam Bancroft, played County Cricket this year and in his last match carried his bat for 206* and is comming off a 228* for WA.Renshaws dropping is a combination of his poor form and Bancrofts great form.