Okay, fine. Let’s actually look at this whole KD or LeBron thing

First off, this is a ridiculous question and the fact it’s picked up this much steam for the four talking idiots heads on Around the Horn to debate tells you that it’s clearly the NBA offseason. But let’s get to the bottom of this thing. Up front, to be clear: LEBRON JAMES IS A BETTER PLAYER… RIGHT NOW. Nobody would argue with that. Unless they are related to KD or maybe on his payroll.

On Around the Horn today, Jay Mariotti said it was “absolutely crazy” and laughed it off as if he was offended to even be asked; Kevin Blackistone said no way, but he can see it in the future (being the only one to actually kind of answer the question); Bill Plaschke talked and stuttered so fast I could barely understand him, but ended up saying it was stupid to even think Durant was better; and Woody Paige did something HILARIOUS in which I fell on the floor laughing at his outrageous antics. It was all great television.

And I wouldn’t have disagreed with them one bit, had they answered the question properly. Let’s review what Sam Smith said that started this whole ridiculous debate.

It’s being whispered now among NBA types because, I believe, under a secret NBA/ESPN provision you are not permitted to say aloud anything that might be interpreted to suggest LeBron James isn’t the best thing to ever happen in anyone’s life.

Well that sentence was fairly prophetic, especially considering the way the four panelists on ESPN reacted today to the question.

But sitting in the stands in Las Vegas at the USA Basketball mini-camp and hearing NBA coaches and general managers, the gasps have been for Oklahoma City’s Kevin Durant.

Understandably so. Durant was clearly the best player in Vegas last week. He was an amazing talent last year and by all accounts, he’s even better now. How freaking scary (in the best way possible) is that? Note: This paragraph isn’t implying the gasps have NOT been for LeBron and that KD has stolen the spotlight, because LeBron, you know, wasn’t there. And now, the key sentence:

I’ve now heard more than one say Durant could be a better player than James given Durant’s combination of amazing size at about 6-10 and pure shooting stroke.

Emphasis on “could be.” COULD. BE. COULDBE. Does that mean “better than right now?” No, it does not. It means that Durant COULD BE a better player than James. Maybe that means this upcoming season. Maybe that means in five years. Maybe that means when we reflect on their careers in 25 years. Who knows? But people have reacted to this as if Smith said, “Kevin Durant is the best basketball player on the planet for forever. Forget LeBron, Kobe, MJ in his prime or even Shawn Kemp on NBA Jam. KD is everything they wish they were.” Would it be outrageous to say that after the outstanding rookie campaign he had that Matt Ryan COULD BE better than Peyton Manning? Or that Matt Wieters COULD BE better than Joe Mauer? Now it would be looney toons to say Kyle Orton could be better than Manning because Neck Beard hasn’t shown you anything to remotely think that. But KD averaged 25.3 ppg in his second season at an incredibly efficient clip. So to say he could be better than LeBron is not psycho in any way.

And he’s still 20. The feeling is Durant is on the brink of being a 30 per game scorer. Plus, Durant is a serious worker. The Bulls’ Derrick Rose has become close with Durant and the two have worked out together considerably this summer. Said Rose, who is five days younger than Durant: “KD is great. He’s real talented. I look at him as like a big brother to me even though we’re the same age. He’s been in the league longer. He’s a great talent, 6-10 guy who can dribble, shoot like a guard. He’s going to be a great talent in the league.”

Not too much to add on here, but that paragraph is awesome to read over and over again.

Look, nobody is crazy enough to say Kevin Durant > LeBron James right now, . And at this point, it’s kind of dumb to even compare the two period. Different players playing different roles. It’s really not all that fair to compare Kobe and LeBron. Lord knows we’re all sick of that question. And while I appreciate the pub for Durant to get compared to LBJ, I don’t want to spend the next 10 years debating this moronic question. Why can’t two guys be really, really awesome at basketball without being compared?

As a scorer, yeah, KD is probably more talented. As a distributor that makes his team better, obviously LeBron. As a defender, Durant has a ways to go. But he’s just 20 and as long and tall as KD is, I don’t think even he can touch his ceiling. LeBron is truly a once in a lifetime athletic specimen that does unreal things on the basketball court. They’re both very good at what they do. Isn’t that enough?

Sportswriters have to write and commentators have to commentate, but this whole thing is kind of a dumb question. And it gets dumber when you don’t actually answer the question that was asked. LeBron or Durant? I don’t know and honestly, I don’t really even care.

I agree. Comparing the 2 NOW is stupid!5 years from now it won’t be. Lebron has the money and the TV time but what The Kid has is the old school work ethic. We all know the kid will work his butt of to be special and win and grow something BIG. Lebron .... We know how he does it he holds the franchise he SAY'S he love to ransom threatening to destroy everything if he doesn't get what he wants!

Maybe they should change names.... Lebron can be called the BABY it seems to fit the way he acts.

I think everyone is trying to crown someone else as better than lebron because of the media bias and circus surrounding him and anything to do with him. Don't be biased against him just because he is the darling of the league; his numbers speak for themselves, and his playoff and regular season winning records considering the team around him speak for themselves too.

lets not forget that the question if lebron is finally better than kobe is still in the air (which i emphatically disagree wit) but lebron is still clearly better than durant neither of them are elite defenders tho lebron is better at that but durants lack of playmaking ability strength is worse than lebrons tho in a yr or two he will be a better offensive player than lebron is

PS I think a big reason for this whole debate is that KD's shot is about a hundred times more beautiful than LeBron's. Ditto the kobe lebron debate. I almost wanted to go with KD just because i love his jumper so much.

This question is unreal. KD is for sure one of the most talented players in the league, but despite all the claims that he is an as good or even BETTER scorer than lebron at this juncture is ridiculous. Lebron in his 2nd year put up 27 7 and 7, while being YOUNGER than KD is now. KD had a year of college to refine his game and lord knows he did so, but lebron went straight into the fire, was good enough to flourish in it, and is improving every year. The one year he didn't improve, his 4th year, he took his team to the finals and had the 48 point game. Durant looks like he will make a major leap for sure, and will get into the discussion as a top 5 player, but I dont think he is better than wade at this point either. "But you could definitely see KD averaging 30 and 8 with 4-5 assists right?" Those are incredible numbers...however lebron james averaged 31 6 and 6 his 3rd year and 30 8 and 7 his 5th year. Last year his PER was amongst the best ever. None of these stats are the end all, but its safe to say that KD will have to improve a LOT every single year to even approach the combination of statistical production, leadership ability, winning play, and total excellence LeBron James exhibits.

@TaeboIt's too simplistic to say the number of games won determines how good a given star is. Each team had a completely different roster/coach/system. Plus, remember how ridiculously weak the East was a few years ago? Just Detroit and a bunch scrubs. KD had to compete in one of the toughest, deepest conferences in recent memory.

I'm not saying KD is better than Lebron, just that they are different players in different situations, and games won is too crude a measure to do either player justice.

@f5alconOk, so we basically saved right around his salary in Indiana this year. Our cap space next summer, though, is that same as if we kept his expiring contract (since his contract is still on our books even if we don't pay all of it).

@vjm3

@CrowI don't think it's an issue of talent with Sessions, it's an issue of fit. Sessions is a slasher who really can't hit from outside but who has pretty good (not great) passing skills. Assuming Russell has improved his passing and continues to cut down on his turnovers, we already have Sessions in him. Russell is also a considerably better rebounder. We don't need two of the same player at PG, especially two young guys who both deserve to start.

The only reason Presti should be looking to spend on Sessions is if he can pry him away from Milwaukee for relatively cheap, then turn around and trade him next year for a player of greater need.

Crow :I guess he is passing on Sessions. I think a lot of folks will regret that later.

I don't think Sessions is a good fit here right now, but I do think he's a heckuva player and I can't figure out why he's still sitting around loose. A 23 y/o PG who averaged a 12/6 isn't worth anything? Portland would rather have Andre Miller and now the Knicks are talking about taking Iverson instead? This is a tough league to figure out.

watson signed a deal with indiana so he counts for less against our cap

" If another team signs a released player who had a guaranteed contract (as long as the player has cleared waivers -- see question number 54), the player's original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money they still owe the player (and lower their team salary) by a commensurate amount (this is called the right of set-off). This is true if the player signs with any professional team -- it doesn't even have to be an NBA team. The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player's new salary and the minimum salary for a one-year veteran (if the player is a rookie, then the rookie minimum is used instead).

For example, suppose a fifth-year player is waived during the 2005 offseason, with one guaranteed season remaining on his contract. If this player signs a $1 million contract with another NBA team for the 2005-06 season, his original team gets to set off $1 million minus $641,748 (the minimum for a one-year veteran in 2005-06), divided by two, or $179,126. If this player had a $5 million salary with his prior team, then his prior team would be responsible for the remaining $4,820,874. Note that between his prior team and new team the player will earn a combined $5,820,874, which was more than he made prior to being waived. "

Also the buyout might have been less then his 6.6 million, so it could count for a few million less then before or just a few hundred thousand.

I think you're taking the term "could be" the wrong way. True, that term could mean "could become" in which case Smith was saying that Durant may surpass James in the future.However, that term also could mean something in the present when referring to something that's unknown or that we're holding judgment on.

For example, the Phillies "could be" a better baseball team than the Dodgers right now. They certainly are hot and playing extremely well, yet the Dodgers have the numbers and record to back them up so they are still considered the best team in the league. Does this mean the Phillies aren't better right now? No. They could be. We just don't know.

Regardless of how LeBron vs KD turns out, in the playoffs it will be LeBron and 7+ guys vs every other star and 7+ guys. If your playoff rotation combined is better you win.

Who would be the ultimate or realistic add with KD and the rest of the "core"? Oden? Noah? B Lopez? Bosh? Griffin?Presti had his shot earlier at two of these. If it is a PG they need you'd look at Rondo. Hinrich, Blake maybe Augustin, Bynum. I guess he is passing on Sessions. I think a lot of folks will regret that later.

Like I said before, its really hard to compare the two because Lebron came into the league with an nba body. durant still looks like a highschool player physically. He has so far to go physically, probably cuz he as other-worldly metabolism that he can't gain weight, that once his body matures, he could become a different player. But another thing to realize is that he isn't going to be the passer Lebron is cuz they have different games, KD has the chance to be one of the greatest scorers of all time, once his body matures. He isn't a passer but he could grab a lot more rebounds, he was a pretty good rebounder in college, he just can't compete with guys that have arms 2-3 times bigger than his right now. Just consider that most of the great scorers weren't/aren't great 3 point shooters all below (40%), Jordan, Lebron, AI, Kobe, Wade not to mention the big men that don't shoot 3's ie shaq, duncan, malone. durant was one of 2 guys in the top 15 in scoring to avg over 40% from the 3, and yet he also avg 47% overall. Jordan had a couple seasons over 40% but lebron, kobe, wade, AI, never have. Although they take a higher volume of shots so its harder for them to keep their % up. KD has the potential to be the best all around scorer ever because he has such a complete game, although with 3 other guys on the team that can score 20 it will be difficult for him to get enough shots to get his avg up near Jordan's 37 ppg. But in Feb, durant avg 30, green 20, and westbrook 20. Definitely some scoring potential for the thunder with Harden adding to that mix.

I said almost the same thing in a post a couple days ago, about KD being able to surpass Lebron IF he could get better at his passing and defense, now as far as scoring goes, it's my opinion that he's on par to be better than Lebron soon, if not already.

We all know and say it all the time, KD needs to gain some muscle and when he does, watchout NBA because he's more athletic then people give him credit for. I mean really lets think a minute about where Lebron was in his rookie year 20.9 ppg then in year two 27.2 ppg as opposed to KD's rookie season 20.3 and his second season 25.3, there's not a big difference in the two at all, with the small dose of KD as we have had.

And in effiency it's really not that far off when comparing the two's stats, KD's rookie fg pct was 43% and in 3pt pct was about 29%, and Lebron's were about 42% and his 3pt pct was 29%. Moving on to their second seasons, KD's fg pct was 47% and his 3pt pct was nearly doubled at 42% and Lebron's fg pct was 47% and his 3pt pct didn't jump as high as Durant's with only 35% 3pt pct.

So if you ask me Durant shows more of a effienct shooting touch as he gets older and wiser to the NBA game. which tells me that he could be better with 4 more seasons under his belt and the fact that he's had his work ethic all his life as opposed to Lebron just really finding his.

I know it may not be in Presti's plans, but how come no one has mentioned the position we are in when it comes to the likes of Lebron/Kobe/Wade/Bosh/Amare next year? We are roughly 10 million under the cap right now. Even if the cap drops by four million, we have 6 still in the bank. Add to that Etan's 7.3 and Watson's 6.6 (we are still paying him because all NBA contracts are guaranteed) and we will be around 20 million under next year. We could offer anyone not only a max contract (which the top players actually deserve), but a chance to play with fellow superstar KD, emerging star Russell, as well as quality role players (Jeff and Harden) and a good young bench. It's not NY or LA, but it's easily the best cast that any star could go to.

We see a promising young team who could compete for the playoffs in a year or two on their own. How scary could we be right away and for the next decade with Bosh, Amare, or Yao playing center?

@JoeThat's really the crux of it, Joe. If we are dealing in "coulds" then KD could cure cancer, average 55 ppg, and walk on the moon. Of course, the chance is very slim. KD has the potential, with his size and shooting, to be the best ever. But, he has several big leaps to make before we can even consider him a top 5 player.

KD needs to work on his vision and passing. He knows where his teammates are, and admittedly his teammates aren't very good at hitting shots, but he has to get them the ball in position to be their best. He's going to have the ball as much as Russell at PG, so he absolutely needs PG skills.

His defense is lackluster. It should improve with effort and a fully implemented system that works. But, Lebron wasn't much of a defender until just last year. Wade is only decent on defense because the refs never call a foul on him. Kobe is the only superstar who has played strong defense since he was young. So can KD make a leap here? Yes. Will he? Signs say it probably won't be for a few years.

I saw Around the Horn too, and you're right, they didn't seem to understand the question.

Of course, if you asked them if it's possible that KD will get his first RING before LeBron, they'd probably gaffe at that too...but in reality, who knows? The Thunder have built around Durant in the exact opposite way that Cleveland has. Young, high character guys--while every season, LeBron has had a Ricky Davis, a Drew Gooden, or just too many guys on the wrong side of their prime.

So I'd say whether he ends up AS great as LeBron or not, 3 years from now they could be bumping into each other in the Finals, and maybe we'll find out there.

But you could definitely see KD averaging 30 and 8 with 4-5 assists right? And as stated above, with his length and athleticism, he could average 2 blocks and 2 steals as well. KD is 6-10 and skinny, but remember how skinny KG was when he first got into the league? Heck, he's still skinny, but he's also considered a premiere defender. I'm not saying KD will get to that level, but it's a very realistic possibility. KD's ceiling is just as high as Lebrons. It's all about who wants it more. And from all indications, Lebron's more concerned about his image while KD is out at summer league sitting on the bench and cheering on his future teammates (and even the guys who won't make the team) as well as imparting his knowledge to them.

Also, getting Shaq is great for Lebron, but because the team will not revolve around him 99 percent of the game anymore, his numbers will go down this year. He's got too many weapons now to average what he did the last two years.

Here's the relevant question for all of us: Who would you rather have in a Thunder uniform, Lebron James or Kevin Durant?

For all practical purposes, Lebron. He has been my favorite player since he was a rookie. The things he can do on the basketball court are other-worldly - he completely defies all logic at times.

But part of me says that I'd rather have Durant. I don't know if he will ever be as good as The King, but he's OUR player. We get to watch him grow and become that player that every other NBA fan obsesses over, that player that puts a franchise on the map and gives it an identity. And from what I've seen so far, KD is of far higher character. In a way, Durant is better.....for us.

So would you rather:1) Not sign any top 2010 free agents and stick with our 2010 rookies who would try to be our 5th and 6th piece and play it out.OR2) Sign a top PF or C and draft our rookies for a deeper bench.

This is fun to talk and debate, but we'll have a clearer picture in about 9 months. LeBron made his big leap in year 3, like most players do. We'll see how KD does in his third season and then get back to this.