PMBA and SEPTR were never the same thing. PMBA has folded, for various reasons. Some members of PMBA have joined/helped start SEPTR, but it definitely was not just a name change. SEPTR, as far as I can tell, has a much broader focus, including areas like pennypack, belmont and nox for work days, whereas PMBA's primary focus always seemed to be wiss.

If you Know the History of the Wiss..

Funny, a bit extreme, but funny. Amazing how often that movie, let alone that scene, is reworded for different purposes.

The issues at hand is not directly with IMBA and the conditions of the Wiss. IMBA came in behind the 8 ball and actually help to solidify our position, at the request of FOW. You all know the Wiss has had a long established land manager and the city looks to them for direction. The Wiss was been used by different user groups long before we came along. Every one of those previous user groups has had issues with each other. Ours is just the newest one at the table. IMBA was able to say that we can all play nicely in the sandbox and not seen as the "destroyers" of the trail system.

The STI that was developed has turned into a "guide" for what's going to happen over the years in Wissahickon. Keep in mind that it's not directed towards just us, but everyone who uses the park. I believe STI was created with IMBA's help and was a valuable tool to help paint the big picture at the time. Yes, IMBA's Trail Solutions Team contributed to some redevelopment of the system, but so have many other user groups and trail builders. It's going to evolve. At the end of the day, the land manager has to make sure that the system is still in place for the next generation. That's not to say that the trail builders shouldn't be challenged and simplify everything. Considering the resources, time, money and labor, they're doing a pretty decent job.

At the end of the day, the Wiss is a "Multi User" trail system. Always has and always will be. Is it completely ideal, no, but think of the big picture. We have how many miles of single track, in how many parks, all housed in the 5th largest city in the country? A sh#t ton! The 3 main systems have how many miles in each of them? Again, they don't appeal to everyone, but they do have variety. Could we have more, sure, but therein lies the bigger issue at hand.

We’re always arguing about what to cram into an area that is already developed. Why, so we can argue more with other user groups or each other? Why are we not looking to develop new areas?

I'm not a massive supporter of IMBA because I have my own issues with them, but they have done many good things for our community. IMBA has failed in SE Pa because we as a local user group have failed. IMBA can only help organize and support. That's their best contribution to the local scene anywhere. To a degree they packed up and took their ball somewhere else because we’re a fractured community. They’re going to sit this out till we get a clue, or someone wakes up and decides they want to take on the insane uphill battle.

Look at what the locals doing in Belmont and attempting to do in Pennypack. Local riders organizing, solidifying a voice, establishing relationships with the land managers/owners and working with other user groups. This is all being done in a post IMBA world and may very well be the future model. I think that’s great for protecting what’s existing, but what other opportunities are we missing?

Wow, have you been repressing these feelings for a while? It's satirical man, chill....I thought it was funnier viewing it as the two mindsets in the wiss: the purists/let it alone vs the flow trail/make it easier group- I mean more sustainable group, than just imba bashing.

Wow, have you been repressing these feelings for a while? It's satirical man, chill....I thought it was funnier viewing it as the two mindsets in the wiss: the purists/let it alone vs the flow trail/make it easier group- I mean more sustainable group, than just imba bashing.

LMAO!! I actually think the Wiss guys do a pretty good job of walking the line there. Left to it's own devices, the Wiss would turn into nothing but ruts, washouts and downed trees. You wouldn't be able to ride 20 feet without having to walk your bike. When they take out that rocky descent opposite the Valley Green, northbound then we can talk.

Speaking of, does anyone know if there are plans to rebuild the bridge the used to exist northbound, opposite the Inn, south of Valley Green Drive?

I agree, overall the trail re-work/design has made it much better and that hitler rant video cracks me up every time- I've seen it used for everything from Usian Bolt breaking the record in the 100m to Starbucks.

I hope they rebuild that bridge, trying to get down/up that rocky section and across the creek is way more interesting than flying across a bridge.

I agree, overall the trail re-work/design has made it much better and that hitler rant video cracks me up every time- I've seen it used for everything from Usian Bolt breaking the record in the 100m to Starbucks.

I hope they rebuild that bridge, trying to get down/up that rocky section and across the creek is way more interesting than flying across a bridge.

I just walk across the creek. It's not the end of the world but I did like that bridge. Nice break before starting to climb again. That's frequently where I end my ride so I feel I deserve a break by then.

I just walk across the creek. It's not the end of the world but I did like that bridge. Nice break before starting to climb again. That's frequently where I end my ride so I feel I deserve a break by then.

I don't think there are any immediate plans to replace the bridge. One problem with replacing the bridge is that it is likely to be washed away again in near future if placed in the same location.

You can always email the Friends of the Wissahickon and ask them about future plans.

they just built that bridge over the gully really recently. I just saw it for the first time on Saturday myself. Wasn't there in the fall. That bridge sucks.

I'm not accusing you or anybody else here that is anti-bridge, however I noticed some obvious anti-bridge graffiti on said bridge during my ride this week. Bridges I can live with, there are still A LOT of technical features in the Wiss, but it's a real bummer to see (and I'm assuming here) riders voicing their derision in the form of vandalism. That kind of response is not going to win us any favors in the future when it comes to the topic of re-routes, ride-arounds and conserving technical features.

If anyone here knows who is responsible, lean on them to make it right with FOW.

I'm not accusing you or anybody else here that is anti-bridge, however I noticed some obvious anti-bridge graffiti on said bridge during my ride this week. Bridges I can live with, there are still A LOT of technical features in the Wiss, but it's a real bummer to see (and I'm assuming here) riders voicing their derision in the form of vandalism. That kind of response is not going to win us any favors in the future when it comes to the topic of re-routes, ride-arounds and conserving technical features.

If anyone here knows who is responsible, lean on them to make it right with FOW.

I agree. The bridge is a bridge. Putting graffiti on it makes it just look bad.

With that said, a lot of the changes made recently by the FOW are bad. Just bad. They are nice flowey trails but they have way too many blind spots and curves. They are designed to encourage conflicts between bikes and people. Just wait, once it happens, they will move to ban bikes in the wiss. It is coming, just a matter of time...

Ban bikes? That might be a little fatalistic. There are already plenty of conflicts back there between cyclists and people, dogs, a cat on leash in a tree at eye level (really), d-bags, role playing COS guys, angry lesbians riding horses, angry hiker guy, angry geese,the group ride from Guy's, space aliens, punk rock squirrels, almost any resident of Chestnut Hill walking in the park with that look on their face like someone next to them farted, etc., and there hasn't been a ban.

As a practical matter there are too many of us to ban; the city doesn't have the resources to enforce a ban; at this point mountain biking in that park has a +20 year history. Its as legit as any other activity and a ban never going to happen. Also, the FOW has been infiltrated by mountain bikers - very Machiavellian thinking by those mountain bikers.

I just say hello and thank you to all the hikers I pass in the hope that my gesture might negate the bad impressions left by Stravatards trying to get a KOM by bombing dh run in the middle of the day on a Saturday.

I just say hello and thank you to all the hikers I pass in the hope that my gesture might negate the bad impressions left by Stravatards trying to get a KOM by bombing dh run in the middle of the day on a Saturday.

If that's a yellow 9:zero:7 I think I saw you coming down cresheim creek yesterday with a couple other guys. I was throwing a stick for the dog in the creek.

I just say hello and thank you to all the hikers I pass in the hope that my gesture might negate the bad impressions left by Stravatards trying to get a KOM by bombing dh run in the middle of the day on a Saturday.

They hate you anyway, doesn't matter if you stop and give them flowers; just the way it is. Ever notice when you give trail, stop or say hi, 9 out of 10 look at you like your from outer space.

They hate you anyway, doesn't matter if you stop and give them flowers; just the way it is. Ever notice when you give trail, stop or say hi, 9 out of 10 look at you like your from outer space.

Last Saturday, our group of two came up behind a family of hikers. We stopped and announced ourselves but they abruptly reversed their direction and headed back towards a trail junction and one said "let's get off the mountain bike trail." We replied, "you don't have to do that, it's a multi-use trail, you have just as much right to be here."

If that's a yellow 9:zero:7 I think I saw you coming down cresheim creek yesterday with a couple other guys. I was throwing a stick for the dog in the creek.

ha! stravatard.

that was me. I'd thrown a set of 29er wheels on; it makes for a much different experience riding the Wiss on a rigid.

Originally Posted by justriding

They hate you anyway, doesn't matter if you stop and give them flowers; just the way it is. Ever notice when you give trail, stop or say hi, 9 out of 10 look at you like your from outer space.

I'm 6'8" and built like a linebacker, I'm used to people looking at me like I'm from outer space; I'd rather be friendly and polite, it usually gets good results and if it doesn't, I've wasted nothing.