A recent landmark ruling by the High Court takes the UK one step closer to becoming an “informant society” along the lines of the former East Germany or Soviet Union.
El Reg previously reported on the case of deputy head, John Pinnington, who was fired from his job when an enhanced criminal record background (CRB) check turned …

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This needs to be brought home

Maybe we should all do our bit for a fairer society by making unsubstantiated allegations against senior police officers. That should effectively prevent them from going any further in their careers. Police are subject to CRB checks, of course - aren't they? And perhaps a few politicians need the same treatment.

UK? Salem?

You hit the nail on the head with "when faced with a candidate about whom allegations have been made, employers will almost universally opt for the safe option". And the effect will be to give to the malicious the power to wreck the careers and lives of innocent people. That's a risk not worth taking; and it's why our legal system is based on the principle 'innocent until proven guilty': we must be prepared to risk the guilty going unpunished to prevent the greater wickedness of punishing the innocent unjustly.

What their kid's teachers get up to

"In defence of its right to poke into individual private lives, it asks its readers whether they would not wish to know what their children’s teachers get up to at the weekend."

I bet many people will say that they don't want their kid's teachers to be having sex other than in the missionary position during the weekend, because if they did then they are perverts and everyone knows that perverts are child molesters.

Wouldn't worry ...

eventually everyone will end up with unsubstantiated allegations rendering it completely useless... then when someone really does have a clean slate actually becomes suspicious instead for not having any.

Hmmm.....

Re: UK? Salem?

Sorry mate, you are wrong.

It is enshrined in the letter of law that UK does not have the presumption of innocence (one of the most basic human rights) and as a matter of fact the current Health and Safety and Eductional legislation clearly postulate that the founding principle of the UK legislation is indeed Salem: "guilty until proven innocent". By the way, this is also the reason why the entire UK human rights legislation is flawed and can be circumvented on casual basis when the government so desires.

So if you want to do anything on the subject, write a very short and clear letter to your MP which says that if he wants your vote he has to sponsor a member bill containing one sentence: "It is a founding principle of UK Law that any person is Innocent until proven guilty".

Me coat. The one with the signage: "We already live in a Stalin state, stop saying it is "becoming" a 1984".

Won't someone think of the children?

Specfically, those children who now will be denied some of the best teachers in schools, leaders in the Scout & Guide movements, coaches in sports etc. because of biased and unsubstatiated allegations. There is no downside for those who make these allegations, and no possibility of refutation by those against whom they are made.

This is a bad law which damages children in the name of protecting them. It was brought about by the no-doubt well-meaning Esther Rantzen and her hysterical fellow travellers - undoing centuries of 'innocent until proven guilty' and, as so often happens when people make laws without thought of the consequences, will have no affect on actual abusers but will instead severely damage the lives and careers of wholly innocent people.

Given that most child abuse happens in families, one must wonder what motivates people who are so shrill about the much rarer 'stranger paedophilia'. Guilt on their own part, perhaps?

"......and they will be held accountable." I hope.

"And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there?

Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well, certainly there are those who are more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable."

When East German communism collapsed the first government offices to be comprehensively trashed, sorry, held accountable by the population were the record facilities of the hated Stazi.

I hope someone is keeping a list of where the offices and data centers of the following organizations are, so that people know where to hold account when the time comes.

National ID program,

National DNA database,

Integrated communications records database

Enhanced CRB database,

Vehicle movements database,

PNR database

Bank record and credit card monitoring databases.

And these are only the more obvious ones which spring to mind immediately ! What about all the other illegal and semi legal ones they are not even telling us about (cellphone geolocation data, lists of antiwar, anti-vivisaction, anti-airport protestors etc etc) and the hoards of others which I cant remember at them moment.

Who'd a thunk it. Some of our grandparents fought and died to resist this kind of rule, and here we are in a burgeoning surveillance dictatorship. It aint funny any more.

Who in their right mind would ever want to work with children!?

There are plenty of scummy kids (and parents) out there that happily make such evil accusations against an innocent teacher. Damn! It's not like teachers get paid much to start with - certainly not enough for this.

Oh look, in one fell swoop this judge has reduced the number of people wanting be teachers and reduced the levels of quality teaching in our schools! Cool!

Communism, anyone

Scary article. Completely agree with the AC above, much as its a pain letting the guilty go unpunished, I prefer that option to having every aspect of my life scrutinised at every turn. Innocent until proven guilty is one of the fundamental principles on which this nation is built, so is probably a prime target for government to erode away.

Now their hands are tied

How on earth is this going to play out? We already have kids who know the system and know what they can get away with. Now they just need to say that "Sir tried to touch me" and they can kill Sir's career.

As for the Daily Wail, it's doing much harm to our freedoms and privacy, while positioning itself as a champion for the people. Do I want to know what my kid's teacher gets up to at the weekend? Erm, no, I couldn't give a monkeys. As long as they're good teachers they can do what they want (legality assumed, etc). Last time I checked we were still a free country. The Wail is just playing to people's fears and ignorance, as ever, and very sadly it sells well based on that.

Knit-your-own-yoghurt types sign up here

Liberty works very hard on this and related mass surveillance society, privacy-busting snooper's database type issues, including several unpopular causes (like this one) that may run counter to the tabloid-lead politician's knee-jerk instinct.

When I've finished a hard day of ranting about civil liberties on Slashdot and El Reg comments, I like to relax by admiring the direct debit numbers on my bank account. It helps me to feel smug and superior to the average self-righteous poster and their mundane twatotronic rants, for - lo! - I have put some money where my mouth, er, fingers are. (Stop that sniggering at the back, don't think I can't see you!!)

http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk

Go on, chuck 'em twenty quid, you know it makes sense...

Mine's the one with the "save the whales" badge and the incense and whalesong tape in the pocket.

The balance of justice

As a teacher, the idea of a child having the power to end my career is a scary one. In the classroom teachers are becoming increasingly powerless already, and giving children an effective kill switch is deeply concerning. As long as there are no real consequences to making false accusations, kids won't feel concerned about settling a grudge against a teacher by accusing them of something dreadful.

In 2004, one teachers' union proposed that teachers who were falsely accused should be able to sue the parents of their accusers, but clearly nothing has come of that. If parents knew they might suffer SERIOUS consequences for their children making things up, they would be a little more careful to check their facts and keep an eye on their kids' behaviour.

The CRB process does have its reasons, not least because patterns of behaviour and lots of allegations which go to court but ultimately aren't prosecuted start to suggest there may be value in keeping an eye on someone. Items appearing on the CRB disclosure doesn't stop a school employing the person (unless they've been convicted of certain things), but it does feed into the school's risk assessment of the individual.

Anorther nail in the Great British coffin

I've sat on a jury...

...where an innocent woman was accused of child abuse - because she refused to give cigarettes and alcohol to an 11 year old kid who was in care (he wasn't her kid) - who talked another into playing his game.

Because of the nature of the allegations she was kept on remand for 6 months, in which time everything she had ever owned had been stolen from her, and her home was burned to the ground.

Her life as she knew it was lost forever, all her possessions, all the pictures, memoirs, clothes, EVERYTHING.

The accuser had done the same to (IIRC) SIX other people who'd not given him what he wanted, as he had discovered that being in care, it was the quickest way to get attention.

We didn't find out about the other baseless accusations until the end of the case, by which point it was obvious they were lying, and playing the system.

This needs to be fought strenuously, before others suffer a living death, unable to work and ostracized by society, based on rumours, unfounded gossip, and false allegations.

@What their kid's teachers get up to

Actually, my ex wife and, following her, my recent ex girlfriend were both teachers (I have no idea why teachers go for me, none at all) and they both had voracious, uh, appetites, with all manner of "kinky" tastes I assure you.

Funny thing is that both them were very professional regarding the distinction between their careers (teaching children) and their private lives (having wild, unabandoned sex)

Funny that.

Paris, because she could teach us all a thing or two about wild unabandoned sex

Self righteous bastards.

"it asks its readers whether they would not wish to know what their children’s teachers get up to at the weekend.

Undoubtedly many parents would, and it is this, plus the result of the Pinington case. that is likely to provide a new focus for future salacious reportage."

Firstly, that really ought to read "many prurient and excessively self righteous tabloid hysterics who just happen to have managed to produce offspring, despite the fact that if they really believed all the twaddle they were spouting, they would be terrified to leave their houses", rather than simply "parents".

Secondly, the question is the wrong way around, would the parents like the teachers to know what _they_ get up to at the weekend ? SWMBO works in education, and I can happily confirm that for a significant number of parents, what they get up to at the weekend is drinking, beating up their spouses and raping such of their children as they can get hold of.

Children are far less at risk in their educational environments where they are typically surrounded by other children and adults than they are at home 'behind closed doors' so to speak, which is where by far the majority of abusers are to be found.

Throughout my own education, and through the many years of SWMBOs continued work in the sector, I have never heard of a single incident of a child being abused by a teacher. Not to they say that they don't happen of course (and I'm not counting 'female teacher gives fifteen year old a blowy in the maths cupboard' as 'abuse' either, for all that it's wrong, illegal and stupid.

OTOH I hear several tragic stories each year of children who have been fucked up the jacksie by daddy after he finished flattening mummies face in.

Somehow, I find it hard to imagine that many of those parents are Telegraph readers.

It is indeed frightning

In my circle of acquaintances I know of 5 individuals who have, at various times, been accused of things which could have, and in one case very nearly did, result in prosecution.

One of the people concerned eventually admitted, years later, that their allegation was completely false and made purely for personal gain.

Another had been under psychiatric care for many years, but still managed to get the police involved by manipulating others to make false allegations on their behalf.

People can be very strange. They often have their own agendas, which they pursue by dubious means with no thought of the consequences to the accused.

And now, it appears that victims of baseless accusations can suffer from the actions of these people - forever. With absolutely no chance of legal redress and little chance of ever clearing their name.

The only solution I can imagine is to make full details of the originator and circumstances of such non-proven accusations available as an attachment to these 'enhanced criminal record background' checks.

After all, if you are going to report unsubstantiated accusations, isn't it only fair to include details of the accuser AND their previous record of unsubstantiated accusations?

Of course, thrown mud still sticks. So WHY even include unsubstantiated accusations in the first place?

Why not just stick to proven accusations confirmed by a successful criminal prosecution?

Too much trouble?

Or... "Better a hundred innocent men go to jail, than a single guilty man go free."?

lunacy

The UK is now a seriously fucked up place to live. Really. Look around. Listen. Make a list in your mind of all the things the ruling class have done to you over the past 8 years. We are no longer free people.

Uk - Salem?

Having suffered extensively from a 10 year long 'whispering campaign' of lies and slander from two academic rivals I finally had to give up my hopes of a University career. 15 years of academic study, over 30 peer reviewed publications, and a string of happy employers willing to give me fixed term contracts and vouch for my honesty, academic and teaching abilities still all counted for nothing against malicious slander based on the pathological jealousy of two contemporaries. After years of being told 'we'd like to appoint you and we think you're the best candidate we've seen, but we have this lingering doubt' I found there was nothing I could say or do to get rid of the mud that had been thrown.

Turning the CRB into an official slander machine is hopeless. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Did you hear?

Another Side to the Question

Since being a victim of child sexual abuse can destroy a person's whole life, isn't it more important to do everything we possibly can to minimize the risk of this than to be scrupulously fair to every job applicant?

After all, there are many jobs and careers open to people which do not involve contact with children and vulnerable adults.

@ Knit-your-own-yoghurt ....

You are absolutely right, but this may not be the best place to appeal for coherent collective action. Yes, Liberty do have the ability to create wider publicity for many of the issues that we vent our frustrations on, and they certainly have the legal expertise and knowledge of where to apply pressure within the government bureaucracy and the establishment in general.

Does the average El Reg commenter have enough commitment to provide financial support for an organization like Liberty? Sadly, I don't think so. What we do best is to indulge in a gigantic bitch-fest that leaves us feeling less frustrated and occupying at least a little piece of the moral high ground.

So maybe we should be doing what the AC suggests and putting our money where our mouth is, and providing resources for the people who can be most effective in bringing our concerns to the attention of the government.

Truly shocking

It is illegal to refuse anyone employment solely on the basis that they have a criminal record. How can it therefore be the case that people are refused employment on the basis of unsubstantiated allegations? The law is definitely an ass on this one.

What a nasty country this is turning out to be! I know that the indigenous population here, when the surface is scratched, has a tendency towards extreme hatred and war-like behaviour but the law is intended to mitigate this and ensure that only the guilty are punished. This clearly flies in the face of all that we've held sacred for many hundreds of years.

Who is going to sort this out? Someone like David Davis? I certainly hope so before we descend into a stinking cesspit from which we'll never emerge.

I'd certainly love to know if there are any such unsubstantiated allegations held about me on police computers somewhere. Unfortunately, however, it appears that I don't have the right to know if there are any, much less challenge them. What a fucked up system!

Unless something serious is done, urgently, I will leave this Godforsaken country and head off to pastures new and, hopefully, unsullied by such witch hunts if I can find one.

Mine's the one with the passport and one way ticket outta here in the pocket.

Who do I see and is there a time limit?

Hmm...

It is clear that mud sticks, especially with sex related mud slinging, this happens in so many cases. There were people writing in to the Graun this weekend complaining about an article on John Leslie implying that because it is difficult to prosecute for rape he was actually guilty even though the judge said that he could go free without a stain on his character. By that measure he would fail an eCRB, despite having been proven innocent, just because people are still talking about it.

Any Suspicion is Truth

Just another example of this country’s idea that the act of suspecting, accusing or thinking results in a piece of true data that can be recorded and kept in perpetuity, no matter how wrong the basis for the suspecting, accusing or thinking is or how wrong the conclusions from that process are.

We’ve had, for some time, the CIFAS warning database. We now have the Enhanced CRB Check. We’ll soon have a ‘no-work’ database. Any idea what’s next?

Mines the one with the unsubstantiated, facilitated-communications allegation in the pocket that Lord Justice Richards is a paedophile.

I cannot help .....

but say that I too have been subject to this "guilty without even being heard" .

What happened ?. I used a computer that I also allowed my friends son and daughter to use. Is that a crime ?.No. So I posted messages ,my friends son and daughter posted messages and so did several of my friends. Some freak of a bloke called "John Hobson" could not stand the fact that I contradicted him in a forum. He collected all the messages that he could find from everyone using the computer and took them to the police. The police then took them to a magistrate ,swore that they were ALL my messages and obtained a search warrant on the basis that ,quote "...because I know how to access newsgroups and there is illegal material material on newsgroups I MAY be in possession of illegal material.....". They then executed search warrant ,apologised and left.

Not content with this my home force decided to tell a third party that they had conducted a search and left them with the distinct impression that I was a ...

Of course that third party gossiped and the rest is history.

So the moral of this is, if you know how to access newsgroups you can expect

to be visited , much the same as if you walk in Brixton you will be visited