I got on the phone with Aline Crumb and I expected to hear a very hardened woman talking back at me. I figured if youre the wife of R. Crumb, who everyone thinks is the worlds worst misogynist, she might be a pretty angry woman. But after speaking with Aline, about the new book The Sweeter Side of R. Crumb, it would be hard to imagine R. Crumb as anything but a gentle genius who loves and supports his family. The Sweeter Side of R. Crumb collects some of R. Crumbs most beautiful and poignant work. From French landscapes to some of the most sentimental moments between a father and daughter I have ever seen in a comic book. I got a chance to talk with Aline Crumb on her recent trip to New York City.

AC: I never know. Yesterday it was Minnesota. There are Jews in Minnesota.

DRE: There are?

AC: They called me.

DRE: Are you in New York just to promote the book?

AC: Actually were setting up stuff for February when my book comes out. Im going to get to talk at the New York Public Library with Robert. Im also doing an exhibition of my work. So Im here to organize that as well. Im having fun too. Its my hometown.

DRE: Is Robert with you?

AC: No. Hes home. Hes only coming for a very short time In February. Hes agreed to interview me for my book. Its like his Valentines gift to me to appear but hes going home immediately afterwards. He hates stuff like this.

DRE: Does he like New York?

AC: He likes to hang out with his record collecting buddies and stuff like that and look for junk. He doesnt like media stuff.

DRE: Theres no place to find junk anymore in Manhattan. Ill tell you that much.

AC: Yeah, I know. He goes to New Jersey. He hangs out with record collectors and they trade records. Its the ultimate nerd activity and thats where hes happiest.

DRE: What are you doing in town for fun?

AC: Im having lunches and dinners every day with old friends. Im going to check out the Halloween parade and Im going to do some serious shopping. I also buy art supplies, things I cant get in France and certain food items.

DRE: What art stuff can you get here that you cant get in France?

AC: Well some things are cheaper here so I like to load up on certain stuff. I have to go to New York Central Art Supply and get paper there. I like the Strathmore pads you can get here. In France, you can only get them in single sheets. Also I have a certain kind of scratchboard I like to get and some things are cheaper and New York Central will send your items back home. So I buy stuff there and send it home. I like to go to Kiehls and get certain perfumes and products that I like.

DRE: Do you guys have the internet?

AC: Yeah. I have an email address and everything. We have high-speed Internet in our medieval village. But they dont have the same stuff online that they do at the actual Kiehls store. You dont get free samples either.

DRE: Whose idea was The Sweeter Side book?

AC: That was my and our publishers idea. I did a very limited edition of a book called The Sweet Side of R. Crumb. I did it in 2000 for the Angouleme International Comics Festival. I made it in a cave in the garage. I hand glued all the covers and hand printed about 150 copies. It was sold as an art object. The publisher and I were looking at the book one day and we thought We should do a bigger version of this because its such an interesting book. So then I proposed it to Robert. When we put the book together and looked at it, we realized it isnt sweet at all. Its actually melancholy and existential. But he doesnt really have a sweet side. Its just that when you take out the shocking stuff, theres something else that comes through in his work. Its a certain attention to the details of daily life and a certain feeling for his surroundings and the people around him. Its sad and nostalgic. I really like that aspect of his work.

DRE: I figured the title of the book was a little bit of a joke.

AC: Exactly. It doesnt exist. But thats why its called The Sweeter Side. What it means is the less objectionable side. You could give this book to your mother, even though its existential, sad and melancholy. But she wouldnt be horrified, whereas if you gave his normal work to your mother, she would be horrified. Its the sweeter side in the sense of being more palatable to many people. But it has this melancholy longing for things gone and this incredible affection for nature and objects of daily life that I find really moving. Its something completely different.

DRE: Is he actually sweet to you and the kids?

AC: The person hes sweetest to is Sophie. He really loves me and hes very supportive of me. But sweet? I dont know if Id go that far. Weve been together 35 years. Obviously we love each other and were very supportive of each other. Neither of us are what I would call sweet people. Were both edgy people. But with his daughter, he has a tenderness that is beyond anything I could describe. Shes the one that really gets to him.

DRE: I actually interviewed Sophie for Bellybutton. She seems like shes a lot of fun.

AC: Yeah. She moved back to France now and is living near us. Were really happy.

DRE: Thats cool.

AC: Yeah. The Jewish mother in me is very happy.

DRE: Does she have more work coming out soon?

AC: She put out Bellybutton 1 and 2. She just did stuff for Jane Magazine thats going to come out soon. Roberts working on a book called Genesis: The Illustrated Bible. Sophies doing the color work for that book. So theyre working together.

DRE: My favorite pages in the book are the ones he drew of him and Sophie.

AC: That makes me cry every time I read them. That to me is the truly sweet thing in the book. Also I think his landscape drawings are incredibly evocative. The drawings of me I think are all really nice too. But his range of drawing styles and approach to things is really amazing to see in this book. When youre not being shocked by his sex obsessions, you actually get to see other stuff and I think thats interesting.

DRE: Do you still work with Robert?

AC: Yeah, Ive done a lot of stuff for The New Yorker with Robert. But Ive actually been painting for the last five years. Im having a show of my paintings in France in December. So Ive been doing a lot of other art work. I havent been writing comics as much. I started off as a painter when I was eight. I have a degree in painting from Cooper Union and it is still one of my major passions. At a certain point, I slowed down on comics and went back to painting. So Ive been doing a lot of that and as a result, I have a body of work that Im going to show now. Thats really exciting.

DRE: How did you hook up with MQ Publications?

AC: We did the R. Crumb Handbook with them. They have a house in France near us and we met them because someone was threatening to put a horrible toxic waste dump right near the village where we all live and we made a huge demonstration against it and we defeated it. They had this publishing company and they did a lot of cookbooks, exercise, lifestyle books and stuff like that. Really nicely done stuff. They started doing a series of handbooks and they had done a few already and they proposed doing one of Robert. He never wants to do anything, but at the time our friend Pete Poplaski was broke and Pete said he would put it together, so Robert said yes. Then, of course, me and Robert ended up doing most of it anyway. But I think it came out pretty good. So they got more interested in Roberts work and my work as a result of working with us. So they proposed doing a book of my work. With a publisher behind me and Robert encouraging me to write, I decided to a complete book.

DRE: This is a good time for it. Where you guys live graphic novels and comic books have always been respected. But now theyre on New York Times best seller lists.

AC: I know. We started this 35 years ago. So its satisfying to see that weve spurned other generations of artists who are successful and that a new audience is now interested in our work. Thats another reason why I decided to do it but then I would do things like with Fantagraphics and they would sell 200 copies. I didnt feel that my work was reaching an audience that I wanted to talk to. 14 year old comic book fans are not interested in my work and theres no way to reach intelligent people my age because they didnt read comics. Now I feel like I have a chance to actually reach a larger public and at my age, I want to get my work out there finally and have it be read by people. Thats why I decided to put this book out now.

DRE: Robert draws every day. Right?

AC: Yeah, he does. He draws in restaurants, on placemats. Hes put out books of drawings from the restaurant tablecloths. The books called Waiting for Food Volume One, Two and Three. In France you have to wait so long to get your dinner served so he draws on the tablecloths and on the paper placemats. Now hes drawing probably less in his sketchbook because hes drawing Genesis so much. Its such a giant project and the drawing is so challenging that hes putting most of his energy into that. Its really going to be an incredible thing.

DRE: When will the Genesis book be coming out?

AC: Probably in 2009. Hes been studying this material for five years and been thinking about it even longer. He has 68 pages done and its going to be 175 or 200 pages.

DRE: How faithful is it?

AC: Totally faithful, but hes using several different versions and hes putting them together in the way that he finds to be the best. But the text is totally faithful and then the drawings are his interpretation, which are totally outrageous. Thats why these fucking right wing fundamentalists cannot argue because hes not changed one word of the text. The illustrations merely show whats already there. I think thats really important.

DRE: So youve been married for 35 years?

AC: I cant remember when we got married. Its been a long time. But weve been together for 35 years. We met in San Francisco in October 1971.

DRE: So he was very well known by that point.

AC: Yeah. He was really burned out from his first wave of fame and he was a total wreck when I met him, a total catastrophe. He had been this total reject that nobody paid attention to and all of a sudden, every rock and roll star wanted to party with him and girls wanted to do it with him and he was completely overwhelmed. It made him completely depressed and crazed.

DRE: Of course hes brilliant, but usually women dont go for a depressed, crazed guy.

AC: Yeah. Women went for him just because he was famous, but he wasnt really connecting with anybody. His life was totally chaotic. He had all these people hanging on him and wanting stuff from him, but he doesnt know how to say no to anybody. His life was completely chaotic and out of control. I think he wouldve died if he didnt end up with me. Im being honest with you. Maybe the same is true for me, because he was also a really stabilizing force in my life as well. So its mutual.

DRE: Were you part of Wimmens Comix?

AC: I certainly was. I was part of the early Wimmens Comix movement. If you look, Im in the first Wimmens Comix.

DRE: What do those women think of your relationship with Robert?

AC: Trina Robbins hates my guts. She thought Robert was the ultimate male chauvinist pig and she didnt approve of me going out with him. So that started back then.

DRE: Even today?

AC: Two facelifts later and she cant get over her anger. What can I tell you? She still holds a grudge towards me. Its not mutual. I dont care at all, but she for some reason, has hung onto that one.

DRE: How did you meet Robert?

AC: He had drawn a character before he met me called Honeybunch Kaminski and thats my last name. But people starting saying, R Crumb drew you and he doesnt even know you. I thought that was really weird. So Spain Rodriguez brought me to meet him at a party. When I met him, he had a wife and a girlfriend so it wasnt exactly like a perfect situation. I had to make an ultimatum and say, If you want to be with me, you have to resolve the other relationships one way or the other. That dragged on for awhile and then he finally did dissolve the other relationships, which were not healthy anyway. They were on their last legs. But he had trouble extricating himself emotionally from the mess he had created. But then he did finally leave those relationships and then we started living together.

DRE: What attracted you to the depressed genius with a wife and a girlfriend?

AC: First of all, I was really attracted to his work, his mind and his vision. I wasnt necessarily personally attracted to that, but I was interested in knowing him. Then he was really cute and touching in a way that really surprised me. I also just had this sinking feeling when I met him that our destinies were entwined. I had never had that before. I didnt particularly want to be married or be involved with anybody at that point. I was having too much fun. I just met him and I thought, Oy. Something serious is happening here. I just had this unbelievable feeling that my destiny and his were going to be involved for a really long time. You can call that love at first sight or dread at first sight but I knew right away.

DRE: I interviewed Terry Zwigoff recently for his new movie. I hadnt heard what he thought of American Splendor and James Urbaniaks performance as Robert.

AC: Whatd he say?

DRE: He said he liked the movie, but he didnt think too much of the guy who played Robert.

AC: I agree. I thought it was a harsh, exaggerated stereotyped performance. It didnt capture any of the humor and softness and tenderness of Robert at all, which is all mixed together in him. It was very harsh. I saw that with Robert and afterwards I said, If you were like that, I would divorce you right away. I couldnt stand it. That actor came up to Sophie at a comic convention and introduced himself. He had long blond hair and Sophie said it was really weird.

DRE: What did Robert think of that guy?

AC: He didnt like his performance too much either, but he said the movie was okay. It was interesting. The movie was very interesting and certainly experimental. The thing that didnt work for me in that movie is that actually I like the real Harvey [Pekar] better than the actor and I like the actress better than the real Joyce [Brabner].

DRE: How long ago did the two of you move to France?

AC: About 15 years ago.

DRE: Do you have shows of your work out there?

AC: No. Were very reclusive in our life. Im having a show because Ive been working for two and a half years on this. But now that you mention it were having a Crumb family show this spring in France. Paul Morris, who is Roberts art agent in New York, organizes all these shows and he takes care of everything. We dont even pay attention to it. Hes really good. He sells Roberts work to museums and collectors so were able to live decently because of him. Theres a show in San Francisco of Roberts work at Yerba Buena [Center for the Arts]. Theres going to be a show in Brussels. The family show going to be me, Robert, Sophie, Max and we asked Roberts son Jesse to be in it. We dont know if hes going to participate or not. Thats going to be this spring.

DRE: What is the new work youre working on?

AC: The next thing thats coming out is my book called Need More Love. That book is coming out in February with MQ Publications. Thats a graphic memoir. Its 382 pages with text, photos, comics and paintings. That book is coming out on Valentines Day, February 14th. Then on February 15th, Im having a show at Adam Baumgold Gallery in New York. Need More Love is really big. I tell everything in there. If you want dirt, get that book. Theres a lot of interesting stuff in there about my early involvement in comics. The whole thing starts off with me being born on Long Island and my Jewish childhood on Long Island and it goes all the way up to the present.

DRE: Im from Long Island.

AC: Where are you from?

DRE: Hewlett in the Five Towns.

AC: Yeah. Im from Woodmere. My mother lived in Hewlett for years.

DRE: Are you serious?

AC: Whats your last name?

DRE: Epstein.

AC: Im probably your parents age.

DRE: Well, youre 58 I think?

AC: Yeah. I graduated from Lawrence High in 1965.

DRE: My dad owns Peggys on Burnside Avenue. Its still there.

AC: Thats in Lawrence isnt it?

DRE: Yeah.

AC: I know where that is. Its at the other end of Central Avenue. I went to Lawrence High. I lived in Woodmere. When my father died, my mother moved to Hewlett to those garden apartments across from Loehmann's.

DRE: Of course.

AC: My mother lived there for years until she moved to Miami.

DRE: My parents' first apartment was right down the block from there. Thats so funny. What are your parents names?

AC: My maiden name is Goldsmith.

DRE: Well theyd be older than my parents.

AC: Yeah. My father died years ago and my mother remarried. I left there in 1965. I never went back.

DRE: Youre lucky.

AC: I hated it there. I write about it a lot. A lot of my stories are about growing up there like how I went to high school with Peggy Lipton. I had a story that I did about her because she was the blonde goddess that was placed there to torture the rest of us. I was miserable the entire time I was in junior high school and high school. I hated it there. It really formed my personality in a lot of ways. I was so alienated. When I was eight, I realized I was an artist and I had no interest in any of that crap. Its such an upward striving disgustingly materialistic crass place.

DRE: As my friends used to say, Its a fucking fashion show.

AC: Oh, its unbelievable. I didnt want to have a nose job. It was difficult to escape from there without a nose job. It really was a horrible place for me. But it provided rich material for comics. I have to say that. A lot of my work is based on those early years there. So much material.

DRE: Its a Jewish thing.

AC: Yeah and thats a real extreme place. Its worse than Queens or Brooklyn in a certain way because people have more money and theyre so competitive. In school the kids are all really smart and really competitive. It was like the volume was way turned up. My favorite movie is Goodfellas because it takes place in that area and when the Jewish guy gets beat up in that film, I could totally identify with that.

DRE: They shot part of that at the beach club we used to go to.

AC: Yeah. We used to go to a beach club in Atlantic Beach. It was like one of those beach clubs there along the strip. That was the hang out place in the summer. I was born in Long Beach actually. My grandfather had a yacht and my mother went into labor on his boat. So they had to pull up to the hospital with a dock and I was born there. Thats where my book starts with. Then the book keeps going through when I was a cowgirl in Arizona for awhile and then when I moved to San Francisco.

DRE: The recent New York Times article on you and Robert mentioned that you and he have an open marriage. When you first got together did you and he have other lovers or was it something you guys talked about and decided to do?

AC: No, we didnt talk about it and decide to do anything. Life is never like that. Robert doesnt have a monogamous nature. We were both very young when we got together. He still is lusting after other women and he couldnt stop himself. So I accepted him the way he was and he is the first person I can stand to be around on a daily basis. The bond between us is really deep, so we tolerate behavior in each other and the whole thing evolved in a point where it just works. We dont know why and we dont recommend it to anybody else. We are bohemians. The monogamous marriage form doesnt worked for most people in case you havent noticed. But most people lie and sneak around about it. We are open about it because we feel that deception is the most destructive aspect and thats what undermines the relationship.

DRE: Do you find that even people of your guys generation dont even do that anymore?

AC: Yeah, a lot of people are really straight but some people mate for life and they are okay with that. They just shutdown and turn their lust off and other people dont. We really live the true Bohemian life, we havent confirmed in any way so why should we ever conform in that way. These all goes together, we just acting it out. We never recovered from the 60s.