The problem Gratch is that Obamacare does nothing to fix the real problems with the system which is the cost of medical care in the US. It is just pushing more people into an already broken system.

What nobody at the federal level ever talks about is that universal coverage is only the first step. It will take another decade of reforms to bend the price curve downward. That little secret would make a lot of people go ballistic...for some reason we want to believe that Obamacare is the last word.

If Obamacare follows the same trajectory as Romneycare did in MA, healthcare and insurance prices will spike for a few years before settling back down. MA is just beginning to put an end to fee-for-service medicine after having universal coverage (98% insured, baby) for 7 years.

Meanwhile, the House has passed a continuing resolution on Sunday vis-à-vis Obamaare in which would delay the Affordable Care Act's implementation for one year and repeal the healthcare law's medical device tax. That resolution, like the first bill that defunded Obamacare, is also certain to be killed by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.Once the second bill is killed, Vitter’s plan takes the same amendment forcing the end to federal subsidies for the political class's health insurance and attaches it to the first defunding bill that was killed and sent back to the House. Then the House passes the bill, sends it back up to the Senate, and waits for the Senate to kill it again. One Democratic leadership aide has already said it probably wouldn’t even receive a chance to be voted on.If the government shuts down, then, the Democrats will have forced it because they would not give up their de facto exemption from Obamacare. Vitter’s plan would show that after getting funding for every special interest they want, including Obamacare, Senate Democrats would not make a single, common-sense concession: tax dollars to insulate themselves from the very healthcare law they are forcing onto the country's working class.

Meanwhile, the House has passed a continuing resolution on Sunday vis-à-vis Obamaare in which would delay the Affordable Care Act's implementation for one year and repeal the healthcare law's medical device tax. That resolution, like the first bill that defunded Obamacare, is also certain to be killed by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.Once the second bill is killed, Vitter’s plan takes the same amendment forcing the end to federal subsidies for the political class's health insurance and attaches it to the first defunding bill that was killed and sent back to the House. Then the House passes the bill, sends it back up to the Senate, and waits for the Senate to kill it again. One Democratic leadership aide has already said it probably wouldn’t even receive a chance to be voted on.If the government shuts down, then, the Democrats will have forced it because they would not give up their de facto exemption from Obamacare. Vitter’s plan would show that after getting funding for every special interest they want, including Obamacare, Senate Democrats would not make a single, common-sense concession: tax dollars to insulate themselves from the very healthcare law they are forcing onto the country's working class.

The problem Gratch is that Obamacare does nothing to fix the real problems with the system which is the cost of medical care in the US. It is just pushing more people into an already broken system.

Except it does do things to help combat the spiraling cost of medical care. Right now one of the big things that drive the increase of medical costs is that insurance companies and the medical profession use each other as rationalization for the increases. Controls on the insurance side of things wont completely solve the issue but it is a start. Its clear that we need to start somewhere, the fact that 60% of bankruptcies are due to insane medical bills shows that. Shutting down the government after youve lost at every turn is acting like a petulant child. Rips to the death attitude shows just how disconnected and selfish this position is. He would rather see millions of families face unnecessary economic strife, then allow the government the right to put a plan in place that just might benefit millions of people.

Shutting down the government after youve lost at every turn is acting like a petulant child. Rips to the death attitude shows just how disconnected and selfish this position is. He would rather see millions of families face unnecessary economic strife, then allow the government the right to put a plan in place that just might benefit millions of people.

Shutting down the government after youve lost at every turn is acting like a petulant child. Rips to the death attitude shows just how disconnected and selfish this position is. He would rather see millions of families face unnecessary economic strife, then allow the government the right to put a plan in place that just might benefit millions of people.

Shutting down the government after youve lost at every turn is acting like a petulant child. Rips to the death attitude shows just how disconnected and selfish this position is. He would rather see millions of families face unnecessary economic strife, then allow the government the right to put a plan in place that just might benefit millions of people.

The GOP's biggest fear is that Obamacare might actually work.

Yup. Once Obamacare is implemented the Republicans will be pushing to re-implement recission, to re-introduce lifetime caps, to remove kids up to age 26 from their parents plans and to allow insurance companies to not cover pre-existing conditions.

No matter how unpopular the phrase "Obamacare" polls I can't imagine taking all that away will be any more popular.

Why would their Social Security checks be late? Mandatory spending isn't stopped by a government shutdown.

The money to cover Social Security payments would still be authorized, but with 800,000 federal employees furloughed -- and the remaining "essential" personnel working without pay -- the system would be unable to review claims, process new ones, or correct for unexpected circumstances. Short staffed? Failed equipment? Data error? Sorry, the department that deals with that is closed this month.

That's one hell of a claim. Can you cite proof for that?

No. Any news article you can find will report that Social Security payments will be completely unaffected by a government shutdown.

The proof I cannot cite for you comes from a very good friend of mine who runs the payroll and retirement systems for his state's comptroller's office. Among other things, he designs and maintains the databases that track things like disability claims and Social Security payments, and Medicare and Medicade compliance. This puts him in almost daily contact with his federal counterparts, many of whom he's coordinated with since before the last time Republicans decided to shut down the government.

Officially, Gingrich's shutdown did not impact Social Security payments either. Unofficially, my friend would tell you that requests for even the most routine information, things that might usually take an hour to complete, were almost immediately backlogged by days. Not just during the shutdown, mind you, but for weeks after it was over. You simply cannot ask an agency responsible for monitoring the work records of every American in the country to operate on a skeleton crew without expecting a hit in its efficiency.

Now, if I were you pr0ner, I would not think very much of that story and would dismiss it out of hand. Like I said, I have no mechanism to prove it to you, and if you decide this is a foolish concern, I will not attempt to argue the point further. There are many other demonstrable reasons why shutting down the government is a bad idea. I'm just relaying the experience of someone who was there to observe the effects first-hand: this action has real consequences.

Unofficially, my friend would tell you that requests for even the most routine information, things that might usually take an hour to complete, were almost immediately backlogged by days. Not just during the shutdown, mind you, but for weeks after it was over. You simply cannot ask an agency...to operate on a skeleton crew without expecting a hit in its efficiency.

I work with most of the large civilian agencies and can vouch for this as well. The most basic functions of all government agencies will be completely bogged down simply due to the lack of manpower to get things processed.

I'm confident that Tea Party types will seize the opportunity to point to these backlogs and delays as an example of government inefficiency.

It's a good thing there are no real-world consequences to these shutdown threats. Oh, wait...

Quote

Two weeks after massive flooding damaged or destroyed nearly 20,000 homes and displaced tens of thousands of residents in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains, members of Colorado’s congressional delegation are worried that a shutdown is delaying federal disaster relief.

But even repairs that can begin immediately are being delayed over the threat of a possible government shutdown. Members of the Utah National Guard will travel to Colorado Thursday to transport equipment to flood-ravaged areas, but work won’t begin until the shutdown threat is averted, or until the government reopens for business.

“Because of the uncertainty of budget constraints and a possible government shutdown, the 1457th [Engineer Battalion] will transport vehicles and equipment to work sites and then return to Utah. Once funding issues have been resolved, which is anticipated to be the first week of October, approximately 120 soldiers of the 1457th will return to Colorado to complete their mission,” the Utah National Guard said in a statement released late Tuesday.

Colorado should just quit bitching and pull itself up by the bootstraps, amirite? John Boehner asks that you hold off any more disasters until they sort out this whole financing the government thingie.

I'm sick to death of Republicans holding our government hostage. I realize I am vastly oversimplifying things by stating it that way, but no matter how you look at it that's what this amounts to. Its supposed to be checks & balances, not gridlock. These fuckers need to do their fucking jobs.

Meanwhile, the House has passed a continuing resolution on Sunday vis-à-vis Obamaare in which would delay the Affordable Care Act's implementation for one year and repeal the healthcare law's medical device tax. That resolution, like the first bill that defunded Obamacare, is also certain to be killed by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.Once the second bill is killed, Vitter’s plan takes the same amendment forcing the end to federal subsidies for the political class's health insurance and attaches it to the first defunding bill that was killed and sent back to the House. Then the House passes the bill, sends it back up to the Senate, and waits for the Senate to kill it again. One Democratic leadership aide has already said it probably wouldn’t even receive a chance to be voted on.If the government shuts down, then, the Democrats will have forced it because they would not give up their de facto exemption from Obamacare. Vitter’s plan would show that after getting funding for every special interest they want, including Obamacare, Senate Democrats would not make a single, common-sense concession: tax dollars to insulate themselves from the very healthcare law they are forcing onto the country's working class.

Rip finds Breitbart.com an interesting and credible source for information. You know: the site that breathlessly reports about political appointees with financial ties to terrorist organizations that don't exist.

Quote from: Rip on September 30, 2013, 12:10:35 AM

Pretty much ever fast food franchise has begun to limit employees to under thirty hours thereby making them part-time to avoid Obamacare mandated healthcare. So now many fast food employees are working at two different franchises in order to make enough hours, of course getting it all at regular time now instead of the overtime many of them used to get for hours over 40.

Rip's wife and daughter work for a fast food company where they can't make ends meet without piling on the overtime. Sounds like grueling and under-appreciated work to me...but I wonder what Breitbart.com has to say about their desire for a living wage.

Quote from: Breitbart.com

Congressman Ellison and the fast food strikers ignore reality; not all jobs are designed to provide a living wage. The coddling that the left media and Democrats are giving the low-skilled workers as they stamp their feet and raise their picket signs isn't helping them adjust to the real world of supply and demand, where low skilled workers are easily replaced since there are so many of them.

For decades, fast food jobs have been considerd entry level or part time work; they are 'starter jobs' that teach basic work skills such as showing up on time, customer service and following basic instructions. For others, like retirees or Moms with kids in schoool, they have provided a way to be productive and bring in a little extra cash. Fast food work wasn't designed to be a career unless a worker wanted to show initiative and become a manager.

There's a fairly simple path to management for fast food workers with any such ambitions; do your job, show some responsibility, and most fast food restaurants provide a quick way to rise through the ranks. Many franchisees start this way.

Rip, your "news" site says your wife and daughter are low-skilled entitled brats who would be working full-time management positions if they could show up on time, follow basic instructions, and demonstrate a little responsibility.

How do you respond to the portrayal of your family as a clot of leeches sucking the economy dry because they can't master even basic work skills, and do you agree with Breitbart.com that we should all ignore their plight because "the real world of supply and demand" has deemed them so worthless?

Meanwhile, the House has passed a continuing resolution on Sunday vis-à-vis Obamaare in which would delay the Affordable Care Act's implementation for one year and repeal the healthcare law's medical device tax. That resolution, like the first bill that defunded Obamacare, is also certain to be killed by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.Once the second bill is killed, Vitter’s plan takes the same amendment forcing the end to federal subsidies for the political class's health insurance and attaches it to the first defunding bill that was killed and sent back to the House. Then the House passes the bill, sends it back up to the Senate, and waits for the Senate to kill it again. One Democratic leadership aide has already said it probably wouldn’t even receive a chance to be voted on.If the government shuts down, then, the Democrats will have forced it because they would not give up their de facto exemption from Obamacare. Vitter’s plan would show that after getting funding for every special interest they want, including Obamacare, Senate Democrats would not make a single, common-sense concession: tax dollars to insulate themselves from the very healthcare law they are forcing onto the country's working class.

Rip finds Breitbart.com an interesting and credible source for information. You know: the site that breathlessly reports about political appointees with financial ties to terrorist organizations that don't exist.

Quote from: Rip on September 30, 2013, 12:10:35 AM

Pretty much ever fast food franchise has begun to limit employees to under thirty hours thereby making them part-time to avoid Obamacare mandated healthcare. So now many fast food employees are working at two different franchises in order to make enough hours, of course getting it all at regular time now instead of the overtime many of them used to get for hours over 40.

Rip's wife and daughter work for a fast food company where they can't make ends meet without piling on the overtime. Sounds like grueling and under-appreciated work to me...but I wonder what Breitbart.com has to say about their desire for a living wage.

Quote from: Breitbart.com

Congressman Ellison and the fast food strikers ignore reality; not all jobs are designed to provide a living wage. The coddling that the left media and Democrats are giving the low-skilled workers as they stamp their feet and raise their picket signs isn't helping them adjust to the real world of supply and demand, where low skilled workers are easily replaced since there are so many of them.

For decades, fast food jobs have been considerd entry level or part time work; they are 'starter jobs' that teach basic work skills such as showing up on time, customer service and following basic instructions. For others, like retirees or Moms with kids in schoool, they have provided a way to be productive and bring in a little extra cash. Fast food work wasn't designed to be a career unless a worker wanted to show initiative and become a manager.

There's a fairly simple path to management for fast food workers with any such ambitions; do your job, show some responsibility, and most fast food restaurants provide a quick way to rise through the ranks. Many franchisees start this way.

Rip, your "news" site says your wife and daughter are low-skilled entitled brats who would be working full-time management positions if they could show up on time, follow basic instructions, and demonstrate a little responsibility.

How do you respond to the portrayal of your family as a clot of leeches sucking the economy dry because they can't master even basic work skills, and do you agree with Breitbart.com that we should all ignore their plight because "the real world of supply and demand" has deemed them so worthless?

-Autistic Angel

Breitbart is hardly my site. I is one of many sites I check out.

I would say they are right, fast food is a bottom feeding low end job. Thank the government education system for teaching my wife little to nothing. My daughter is just turning 18 so that is pretty much expected.

They weren't loading on overtime, they just enjoy picking up a little extra cash with the 5-10 hours of OT a week they could get, giving them 40-50 hours a week, now they are looking at nearly 60 hours a week for no more money.

That Friends of Hamas thng pales in comparison to things like O'Bagy getting citied by the administration and numerous news orgs when she didn't even really have a PhD. If I quit accepting news from sites that have occasionally gotten things totally wrong I would have no place else to get news from.

Funny thing is there is nothing credibility wise to even question in that story, it was simply reporting what everyone pretty much is, just for you I will post it from an MSNBC source next time as I imagine that is where you get your "factual" news.

I'm sick to death of every single one of Republicans the idiots we elected holding our government hostage. I realize I am vastly oversimplifying things by stating it that way, but no matter how you look at it that's what this amounts to. Its supposed to be checks & balances, not gridlock. These fuckers need to do their fucking jobs.

It's 12:16am on the East Coast, and the United States Federal government has just shut down due to a lack of appropriation of funds.

The last twenty minutes have been crazy in the Capitol. My boss and I made it through one of the doors to Longworth as they were preparing to lock it down, as it will not be the door open during shutdown. The hallways were filled with cleaning folks trying to get the entire night's work done before most of the cleaning staff was furloughed at midnight. It's going to be a strange few days (hopefully only a few days) around here until this latest crisis is resolved.

As I said it has happened. Now we get to see how long it takes before they realize that they will have to compromise at least a little bit or it may last till next election or longer.

I have a rule - a law, as it were - in my house that Little B 4.6 doesn't get any cookies after breakfast. When she throws a tantrum about this and refuses to go to school until she gets cookies, I don't compromise and give her one cookie. In what would that make sense to do? I tell her that those are the rules of the house and she needs to follow them. Same principle applies here.

The ACA is law, whether the GOP likes it or not. You lost the fight at every level up to and including the Supreme Court...get over it. Throwing a temper tantrum that affects millions of people's livelihoods then crying because the big bad Dems won't compromise with you is absurd. Thankfully, all but the derpiest of the citizenry is seeing it for what it is.

As I said it has happened. Now we get to see how long it takes before they realize that they will have to compromise at least a little bit or it may last till next election or longer.

I have a rule - a law, as it were - in my house that Little B 4.6 doesn't get any cookies after breakfast. When she throws a tantrum about this and refuses to go to school until she gets cookies, I don't compromise and give her one cookie. In what would that make sense to do? I tell her that those are the rules of the house and she needs to follow them. Same principle applies here.

The ACA is law, whether the GOP likes it or not. You lost the fight at every level up to and including the Supreme Court...get over it. Throwing a temper tantrum that affects millions of people's livelihoods then crying because the big bad Dems won't compromise with you is absurd. Thankfully, all but the derpiest of the citizenry is seeing it for what it is.

That is nice but you can make her go to school, you can't make the house pass the CR. So if you would be happy to let your kid miss school to keep her from having cookies this is right up your alley, but as long as she actually goes to school it doesn't apply.

That is nice but you can make her go to school, you can't make the house pass the CR. So if you would be happy to let your kid miss school to keep her from having cookies this is right up your alley, but as long as she actually goes to school it doesn't apply.

And therein lies the problem. The current situation is the equivalent of Little B pulling a gun on me and threatening to shoot unless I gave her cookies.

That is nice but you can make her go to school, you can't make the house pass the CR. So if you would be happy to let your kid miss school to keep her from having cookies this is right up your alley, but as long as she actually goes to school it doesn't apply.

And therein lies the problem. The current situation is the equivalent of Little B pulling a gun on me and threatening to shoot unless I gave her cookies.

Situation is what situation is, it didn't get there overnight in a vacuum.

As far as Little B, given the current situation, I would suggest you tread lightly.

There are already a handful of House Republicans who are calling for a clean continuing resolution. If enough of them vote against the next rule the leadership proposes regarding an unclean continuing resolution, they can block the rule. At that point, Boehner would have no choice but to bring up a clean CR, which would pass right this moment if there was a chance to vote for it.

If restarting the US government to avoid $150 million in daily costs, and the economic wallop of 800,000 people furloughed makes on a traitor, then, yes, "by traitor".