LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: The case of cyclist Lance Armstrong has been particularly riveting for the past few weeks and it's caught the eye of John Clarke and Bryan Dawe.

BRYAN DAWE: Thanks for your time tonight.

JOHN CLARKE: It's a great pleasure to be talking to you and good evening.

BRYAN DAWE: You've been involved in international cycling administration for a long time now, haven't you?

JOHN CLARKE: I've been on the board of Velocipedes International and Local for a number of years, yes.

BRYAN DAWE: The VIAL?

JOHN CLARKE: That's correct.

BRYAN DAWE: Now this crisis concerning world cycling must be having a devastating effect on the cycling world.

JOHN CLARKE: It's catastrophic. It's doing lot of damage to the sport and we need to rehabilitate the sport. We need get to on with it right now.

BRYAN DAWE: How long has this drug-taking been going on, 20 years or so?

JOHN CLARKE: Something like that as we currently understand it, yes.

BRYAN DAWE: And you did know at all that this was happening?

JOHN CLARKE: We had no idea - we had no - we had no idea there was any drug-taking going on in cycling.

BRYAN DAWE: But you must have attended the Tour De France.

JOHN CLARKE: I go to the Tour every year. I love the Tour. The Tour is fantastic.

BRYAN DAWE: Sure. And you must seen these cyclists during the Tour every day.

JOHN CLARKE: Yes, saw them every day. Every single day.

BRYAN DAWE: And you must have fraternised with them at night.

JOHN CLARKE: I know lot of them personally, Bryan, yeah.

BRYAN DAWE: But you had no idea that they were using drugs.

JOHN CLARKE: We had no - we had no - we had no idea there was any illicit substance use in the sport.

BRYAN DAWE: So what did you think when you saw them riding up mountains at astonishing speeds?

JOHN CLARKE: Well, I was astonished, Bryan. I would turn to the person next to me and say, "Look at that bloke going up that hill at that astonishing speed. Aren't you astonished?" He would say yes and we would agree we were both - it was astonishing, Bryan.

BRYAN DAWE: But it never occurred to ask - but you didn't wonder why they were able to do that?

JOHN CLARKE: Well they're s'posed to be able to do that. They're the best road cyclists in the world, Bryan. That's why they're in the Tour.

BRYAN DAWE: So you're saying you were never aware of any illicit substances?

JOHN CLARKE: We were never aware of any illicit - we had no idea, no idea whatever, Bryan.

BRYAN DAWE: No idea. And you never saw anyone doing anything unusual?

JOHN CLARKE: I saw a Belgian once having breakfast.

BRYAN DAWE: Were you aware that they ride bikes?

JOHN CLARKE: I had heard that, Bryan. I'll be honest with you.

BRYAN DAWE: It's a simple question: yes or no?

JOHN CLARKE: There were rumours, Bryan. I'll be honest with you. We had heard - but I personally had never seen any evidence to support it.

BRYAN DAWE: Fair enough. OK.

JOHN CLARKE: Nothing.

BRYAN DAWE: What will happen now with the Tour?

JOHN CLARKE: Well the sport needs to be fixed, the Tour needs to be fixed. Its reputation has been tarnished and we need to do that.