Log from this weeks EPEL Sig meeting (20070627)

From: Thorsten Leemhuis <fedora leemhuis info>

To: EPEL development disccusion <epel-devel-list redhat com>

Subject: Log from this weeks EPEL Sig meeting (20070627)

Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 15:15:47 +0200

00:00 < knurd> | Meeting ping dgilmore, knurd, mmcgrath, nirik,
stahnma, quaid and everyone interested in EPEL -- EPEL meeting in
#fedora-meeting now!
00:00 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Sig meeting
-- Meeting rules at
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines --
Init process
00:00 < knurd> | Hi everybody; who's around?
00:00 < quaid> | hey knurd
00:00 * | mmcgrath pong
00:00 * | mmcgrath is here
00:00 * | nirik is here.
00:00 * | Jeff_S here, but if I stop responding for a while
it is because my connection has dropped out :(
00:01 --> | notting (Bill Nottingham) has joined #fedora-meeting
00:01 --> | ixs (Andreas) has joined #fedora-meeting
00:01 --> | ixs (Andreas) has joined #fedora-meeting
00:01 --> | ixs (Andreas) has joined #fedora-meeting
00:01 < knurd> | no dgilmore, no stahnma
00:01 < knurd> | well, let's start
00:01 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
bodhi/testing repo/final repo layout -- nirik/lmacken
00:02 < knurd> | sorry, I still haven't replied to mmcgrath's last
mail
00:02 < nirik> | seems it will be a while before we can figure out
koji which means it will be a while for bodhi
00:02 < knurd> | looks like it
00:02 < mmcgrath> | All a matter of manpower
00:02 < knurd> | I'm all for announcing EPEL with plague and teh
old scripts
00:03 < nirik> | I'm not sure if the -stable and -testing targets
will work. It might.
00:03 < knurd> | I can ping dgilmore and mschwendt about it
00:03 < nirik> | I'd sure like to have -testing before announcing...
00:03 < knurd> | nirik, +1
00:03 < Jeff_S> | I agree w/ mmcgrath's email -- let's get going
with plague and we'll move to koji/bodhi (ie. testing/) as soon as we can
00:03 < nirik> | could we have it so everything goes to testing
and have admins manually move packages to stable?
00:04 < knurd> | nirik, should work as well afaik
00:04 < knurd> | nirik, just a bit more overhead
00:04 < nirik> | that would be more overhead, but then maintainers
wouldn't need to remember two steps, no recompile, and admins could
check and make sure something should go to stable
00:04 < _blah_> | i don't want to announce until broken deps are
resolved.
00:04 < knurd> | _blah_, +1
00:04 < nirik> | not sure if that ability exists tho. dgilmore
would know how things are setup.
00:05 < nirik> | _blah_: yeah, +1
00:05 < knurd> | _blah_, that's why there is a "make sure repo is
in good shape" on the schedule
00:05 < mmcgrath> | I started to look at the spam-o-matic script.
00:05 < Jeff_S> | blah, I'm trying to get epel mirrored locally so
I can check out deps, etc. although I'm having lots of fun trying to
find a "current" mirror to rsync from :)
00:05 < _blah_> | knurd: maybe i should look closely at the schedule :)
00:05 < mmcgrath> |
http://git.fedoraproject.org/?p=hosted/mash;a=blob_plain;f=utils/spam-o-matic;hb=HEAD
<-- script
00:05 < ixs> | knurd: just for the record. epel should work fine
with plague... we're doing exactly that internally right now.
00:05 < knurd> | mmcgrath, shall I add this to the schedule to
make sure we don#t forget it?
00:05 < nirik> | _blah_: are you the one who posted the borken
deps to the list? how did you generate? centos? rhel?
00:05 < mmcgrath> | Jeff_S: yeah thats a little strange the issues
you've had.
00:06 < mmcgrath> | knurd: spam-o-matic? yeah
00:06 < _blah_> | jeff: i'm using mirrorservice.uk, but who knows
what the lag is there.
00:06 < knurd> | ixs, sure, the push scripts are the problem
00:06 < knurd> | mmcgrath, k
00:06 < ixs> | knurd: sure. but that#s not the build issue, it#s
a deployment issue.
00:06 < _blah_> | nirik: rhel5+all channels+epel
00:06 < knurd> | ixs, sure, but without the scripts pushing is
hard and a lot of work
00:06 < knurd> | I know that from another repo ;-)
00:06 < Jeff_S> | mmcgrath: sorry, I'll bring that up in #epel later :)
00:06 < nirik> | cool. I could run centos4/centos5 repoclosure
here pretty easily too... could check against your output.
00:07 < knurd> | so, what about "leaving room for a kind of
"rolling epel" repo?
00:08 < knurd> | I got the impreission some contributors would
like that
00:08 < quaid> | epelhide
00:08 < knurd> | :-)
00:08 < nirik> | I think it might be something we could look at
down the road, but we shouldn't try and do everything at once.
00:08 < knurd> | nirik, of course
00:08 < knurd> | nirik, but we could leave room for that in the
repo layout
00:08 < _blah_> | nirik: that would be helpful, it is a convoluted
process for me to generate that list, so please report any errors or
validations. also long term, it would be nice if this information could
be generated on the build servers or somewhere similar.
00:08 < knurd> | nirik, that's all I want for now
00:09 < Jeff_S> | knurd: I feel like that is trying to do too much.
We've defined EPEL as being stable, ie. not a ton of updates. So, if
we're to have a "rolling" repo, then we'd have to branch every package
for that and maintain separately...
00:09 < knurd> | Jeff_S, I don#t want rolling now
00:09 < knurd> | I just want to be able to do it later if we later
want
00:09 < Jeff_S> | knurd: just the possibility of it down the road?
00:09 < knurd> | Jeff_S, yes
00:09 < mmcgrath> | perhaps we should label it 'experimental'
00:09 < quaid> | 'explosive'
00:09 < knurd> | zod
00:09 < _blah_> | why not add those directories in the future, then?
00:09 < knurd> | epelzod
00:10 < knurd> | _blah_, we can do that only if we put the current
repo in a subdirectory
00:10 < Jeff_S> | knurd: seems reasonable, although I don't see why
we can't cross that bridge when we come to it. We can always push out
an updated .repo package later...
00:10 < knurd> | that's what I want
00:10 < nirik> | _blah_: yeah, thats the spam-o-matic script that
mmcgrath was looking at... would mail maintainers. ;)
00:10 < nirik> | I have no problem with moving epel/* to
epel/stable/ now, I don't think we shoudl create other dirs tho until we
are ready to use them
00:11 < knurd> | nirik, +1
00:11 < knurd> | nirik, that's exaclty what I wanted
00:11 < mmcgrath> | _blah_:
http://git.fedoraproject.org/?p=hosted/mash;a=blob_plain;f=utils/spam-o-matic;hb=HEAD
<-- code
00:11 < nirik> | we do have mirrors now tho, so not sure how mad
they would be getting everything again.
00:11 < _blah_> | mmcgrath: thanks, that's what i used to generated
my list, but i can't install it on the buildsystem. :)
00:11 < nirik> | we could make stable and hardlink things and then
remove after a few days...
00:11 < knurd> | nirik, we could hardlink that for a week or two
00:12 < knurd> | nirik, then it should not be that much new stuff
00:12 < Jeff_S> | Why not epel/{4,5}, epel/testing/{4,5},
epel/rolling/{4,5}?
00:12 < knurd> | Jeff_S, confusing
00:12 < Jeff_S> | or whatever you want to call "rolling"
00:12 < knurd> | epel rolling might have a testing as well
00:12 < mmcgrath> | _blah_: <nod> I can though :) email me after the
meeting if you had to make any changes to that script to get it working.
00:12 < mmcgrath> | <nod> I don't think most sysadmins will know what
rolling means.
00:12 * | knurd would really like to moving epel/* to
epel/stable/ now
00:12 < mmcgrath> | I'd prefer experimental
00:13 < knurd> | mmcgrath, we don't need to define the name now
00:13 < _blah_> | mmcgrath: no changes required other than
createing the repository to run it on. thanks for looking at that!
00:13 < quaid> | to start epel/stable/{4,5} alone seems sensible
00:13 < quaid> | room to grow without committing to any type of
growth now
00:13 < nirik> | quaid: +1
00:13 < knurd> | mmcgrath, we just move the current stuff down a
level and decide later if we want to have a rolling epel in addition
00:13 < knurd> | quaid, +1
00:13 < mmcgrath> | knurd: sounds good to me.
00:13 < _blah_> | quaid: +1
00:13 < Jeff_S> | so just hardlink in the meantime?
00:14 < knurd> | Jeff_S, yes, for a week or two
00:14 < Jeff_S> | works for me
00:14 < nirik> | who can take that action? dgilmore ? mmcgrath ?
00:14 < knurd> | the push scripts would need to be adjusted
00:14 < knurd> | and a new epel-release would be needed
00:15 < knurd> | dgilmore might be the best one for that job
00:15 < Jeff_S> | knurd: well, if you are wanting to push to
-testing, then we'd need to update them anyway...
00:15 < knurd> | well, what do we want to do with testing now?
00:15 < knurd> | create it and hand-move packages over?
00:15 < knurd> | (when needed)
00:16 < _blah_> | knurd: are there other options?
00:16 < knurd> | _blah_, differnt targes in plague (see mailing list)
00:16 < Jeff_S> | knurd: I think it may be best to get people used
to having things pushed to testing. Although we'd need a procedure in
place for requesting the push to stable
00:16 < knurd> | but handmoving over stuff might be fine for now
00:16 < knurd> | Jeff_S, wiki?
00:17 < knurd> | we'll find something
00:17 < Jeff_S> | knurd: I can't think of anything better ATM ;)
00:17 < knurd> | afaics most of us want a testing
00:17 < knurd> | or am I wrong with that?
00:17 < nirik> | our release plan of only promoting things on N.y
releases depends on testing.
00:18 < knurd> | all new stuff could (and should) go to the stable
repo as well
00:18 < knurd> | and testing becomes stable on N.y releases
00:18 < knurd> | and security stuff gets build for testing, and
moved over after a day or two
00:18 < nirik> | new stuff? new packages?
00:18 < knurd> | yes, new packages
00:19 < knurd> | for now
00:19 < knurd> | until EPEL is a bit bigger
00:19 < nirik> | new -> stable , update -> testing (wait until
next .y release) -> stable... yeah...
00:19 < knurd> | fine for the others as well?
00:20 * | knurd waits if somebody yells
00:20 < rdieter> | using bodhi?
00:20 < nirik> | I like the idea of a rel team checking things
before moving to stable tho... no broken deps, etc.
00:20 < knurd> | rdieter, in the long term: sure
00:20 < nirik> | rdieter: we can't use bodhi yet. We will when we can.
00:20 < knurd> | rdieter, but we need koji for that, and that
requires manpower we don#t have
00:21 < rdieter> | so you want to implement testing repo before bodhi?
00:21 < knurd> | rdieter, kind of, yes
00:21 < rdieter> | ok
00:21 < knurd> | anything else regarding this topic?
00:21 < knurd> | otherwise I'll move on
00:21 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
finish the wiki docs and remove the warnings by end of may -- quaid
00:21 < knurd> | quaid seems to be working on it today
00:22 < knurd> | thx for that
00:22 < mmcgrath> | hurray for quaid :)
00:22 < knurd> | quaid anything to say reg. this? otherwise I'll
move on
00:22 < quaid> | nope
00:22 < quaid> | just doing it now so it gets finally done :)
00:22 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
unresolved deps / packages missing in owners.epel.list
00:22 < knurd> | we talked about that in parts already
00:22 < knurd> | anything else to say regarding this?
00:23 < nirik> | I think all the missing packages should be fixed.
00:23 < knurd> | nirik, k, will remove that
00:23 < nirik> | need to see if dgilmore cleaned up tdma... I can
do that if not.
00:23 < knurd> | maybe we should try to bug c4chris, so he runs
his package status script for epel as well
00:23 < nirik> | we need to get the broken deps fixed tho.
00:24 < knurd> | yeah, but I got the impression you guys work on that
00:24 < mmcgrath> | I'll try to get the script installed in the next
day or two
00:24 < knurd> | and the script
00:24 < knurd> | mmcgrath, great
00:24 < nirik> | I can poke people on fixing things too...
00:24 < knurd> | nirik, that would be great
00:24 < nirik> | some of them look to be that some dependent
packages need to be branched for epel.
00:25 < knurd> | nirik, we likely should bug the fedora
maintainers if needed and ask them if they want to participate in EPEL
00:25 < knurd> | if they don#t want -> send a list of packages to
the list
00:25 < knurd> | I'm sure a maintainer will show up sooner or later
00:26 < knurd> | anything else?
00:26 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
vacant seat in the steering committee
00:26 < knurd> | smoog didn#t want to afaics from the last weeks log
00:27 < knurd> | so Jeff_S self-nominated
00:27 < knurd> | I#d say we should give others a chance to
self-nominate as well
00:27 * | mmcgrath likes Jeff_S
00:27 < knurd> | and finally decide next week
00:27 < Jeff_S> | mmcgrath: well thank you :)
00:27 < nirik> | did we have any other people interested?
00:27 < knurd> | mmcgrath, agreed, but we should give others a
chance to self-nominate as well
00:27 < knurd> | nirik, don#t know, we did not ask
00:28 < knurd> | and I think it's best to ask once in public
00:28 * | knurd should have done that two weeks ago
00:28 < knurd> | sorry Jeff_S
00:28 < nirik> | I think we did ask...
00:28 < nirik> | at least I remember comment about it on the list.
00:28 < nirik> | oh yeah, on the 20th, Jeff_S throwing a hat into
the ring.
00:28 < nirik> | no other reponses.
00:29 < knurd> | okay
00:29 < knurd> | then +1 for Jeff_S
00:29 < nirik> | yeah, +1 for Jeff_S here.
00:29 < _blah_> | +1 for jeff_s
00:29 < knurd> | mmcgrath, quaid ?
00:29 < mmcgrath> | +1
00:30 < quaid> | Jeff_S++
00:30 < knurd> | k, settled
00:30 < quaid> | yay!
00:30 < knurd> | welcome Jeff_S
00:30 < Jeff_S> | thanks
00:30 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting --
Free discussion around EPEL
00:30 < knurd> | anything else?
00:31 * | mmcgrath wanted to mention that I regularly bump
into EPEL users.
00:31 < mmcgrath> | I found 3 of them in #puppet the other day :)
00:31 < knurd> | hehe, and we didn't even annouce yet :)
00:31 < nirik> | really? wow....
00:31 < Jeff_S> | that's nice
00:32 < _blah_> | i've requested a few packages from fedora
maintainers that have not gotten back to me... what is the next step in
getting those packages into epel?
00:32 < quaid> | I bet the uptake will be pretty good
00:32 < nirik> | we are getting a good sized collection of
packages now.
00:32 * | f13 sits in the peanut gallary
00:32 < notting> | do we want a separate excludearch tracker for
epel, or piggyback on the fedora one?
00:32 * | quaid sends the peanut gal around with a fresh
bag of hot 'nuts for fab__
00:32 < knurd> | _blah_, good question
00:32 < quaid> | argh s/fab__/f13/
00:32 < nirik> | _blah_: how long since you pinged them? Might
wait a bit, and then post the list to the epel-devel list and see if
anyone is interested in them?
00:32 < knurd> | _blah_, if they don#t react I'd say just request
the branch via bugzilla; CC the fedora maintainer
00:33 < knurd> | (if you want to maintain them)
00:33 < _blah_> | nirik: 2 weeks+ time elapsed. i'm willing to
maintain all of em for epel purposes.
00:33 < nirik> | notting: not sure. Either way would be fine as
long as the arch people know to watch the epel one too.
00:33 < notting> | nirik: admittedly, this is an odd case
00:33 < knurd> | _blah_, we likely should ask FESCo for their opinion
00:34 < knurd> | I'll do that and get back to you
00:34 < notting> | nirik: excludearched b/c a rhel package is
horribly broken
00:34 --> | wwoods (Will Woods) has joined #fedora-meeting
00:34 < _blah_> | knurd: ok, that would be cool.
00:34 < nirik> | notting: lovely... and since it's RHEL it's
unlikely to get fixed anytime soon, eh?
00:34 * | knurd is wondering if we really need a a EPEL
excludearch tracker
00:34 < notting> | nirik: well, i can *ask*. doubtful unless we find
an actual customer that cares about rhel4 guile x86_64
00:35 < Jeff_S> | I think
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Schedule could use some updating...
00:35 < knurd> | Jeff_S, it's a wiki, feel free to do so
00:35 < knurd> | Jeff_S, but it's on my todo list as well for the
next days
00:36 * | Jeff_S back again
00:36 < Jeff_S> | weee
00:36 < Jeff_S> | knurd: ok, I'll try to work on it a bit as well
00:36 < knurd> | Jeff_S, thx
00:36 < knurd> | notting, maybe ask on the list for opinions if we
need a EPEL exclude arch tracker
00:37 < knurd> | I'd tend to say we don't need one, but I'm fine
with having one if others want one
00:37 < nirik> | yeah, thinking about it, I think we could just
use the fedora ones...
00:37 < knurd> | nirik, it might confuse people...
00:37 < notting> | ok, i'll ask on the list
00:37 < knurd> | notting, thx
00:38 < knurd> | anything else?
00:38 < nirik> | true, but the only people who look at those are
arch folks, they likely wouldn't be too confused (by that at least. ;)
00:38 < notting> | well, i pointed some people on a mailing list to
epel. didn't mean to jump the gun, sorry about that
00:39 < nirik> | no problem. I have been using epel on client
machines here already, as well as centos virtuals of mine.
00:40 * | nirik doesn't have any other discussion items
right now.
00:40 < f13> | has there been any progress on the RHX issue?
00:40 * | knurd will close the meeting in 30
00:40 < knurd> | f13, could you mail about it to the list
00:40 < knurd> | f13, I still try to understand it
00:40 < f13> | I'm not on the list as of yet.
00:40 < f13> | quaid: was supposed to do some looking into it IIRC
00:40 < knurd> | well, I'd like to see it discussed on the list
00:41 < f13> | that's fine, I'm just an "outsider" looking for
an update
00:41 < knurd> | one IMHO should write up the background of such
complicate topics first and send it to the list
00:41 < knurd> | f13, k, :-) I'll bug quaid about it then
00:41 * | knurd has to leave soon
00:41 * | knurd will close the meeting in 20
00:42 * | knurd will close the meeting in 10
00:42 < knurd> | -- MARK -- Meeting end
00:42 --- | knurd has changed the topic to:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel --
Meetings often get logged -- see schedule in the wiki for next meeting
00:42 < dgilmore> | shit sorry i missed it guys
00:42 < knurd> | thx everybody
00:42 < knurd> | hi dgilmore
00:42 * | knurd has to leave now
00:42 < knurd> | np dgilmore
00:42 < knurd> | cu
00:42 --- | You're now known as knurd_afk
00:43 < mmcgrath> | laterz