So where does my right go to not own a weapon to protect my family? How can I defeat an Assault Weapon??? How bout making a simple solution such as no clips that hold more than 10 rounds? That satisfies hunting/protection etc... Any1 who can support 100 round clips I beg that u justify your ownership?

The argument isn't taking away a basic/simple handgun or shotgun, just the ASSAULT RIFLES (hmmm doesn't that assault wording mean attack, not defend) maybe it doesn't stop every1 intending on killing a mass population to be prevented, but it may stop a couple crazies. The problem w/ this argument is that it's so basic that garbage is beyond absurd yet people object against it.. Guess cuz those guns are cool to shoot, a nuke would also be cool to set off as well

Maybe more gun owners should buy more weapons since the stats seem to lead that more of you would be killed, which may result in those of us who don't own weapons become safer...

It baffles me on common sense in this World... We claim to be knowledgable, advanced, civilized...Yet very little in this country fall in any of those categories. Suicide bomber in a mosque baffles us, yet gun holder in a school just is nuts... I could go on, but this Assault Weapon and 100 round clip is today's problem. Healthcare tom, since I also believe in a civilized country we should protect those who need it. I must digress, cuz too many people are wayyy too ignorant, and likely those folks aren't gonna read this cuz they likely can't read or comprehend

I posted this below in the politics section, but I think it would serve well in this thread to, so I'm gonna cut and paste here too in response to your bolder comments above. This doesn't address everything that is being discussed in this thread, but it should put to bed the terrible argument of high gun ownership rates leading to higher gun related homicide rates.

According to this site (which I have not validated, but the US statistics and Israel statistics were close enough...when you realize the 9,484 you tried to quote was per 300,000,000 or so....that I'm willing to base an argument on them) the US has by far the highest gun ownership per 100 person, yet rank 28th in homicide per 100,000 persons. That statistic right there draws into question any true correlation between gun ownership being the cause of more gun related homicides.

Drilling down further, when you sort based on gun ownership per 100 people, the next highest ranked countries are:

The number next to each country represents the overall rank in gun related homicides per 100,000 people. So, Switzerland had the 2nd highest amount of guns per 100 people, but only the 45th most gun related homicides per 100,000 people, Finland had the 3rd highest gun ownership per 100 people, but only the 62nd highest gun related homicides per 100,000 people, and so on.

Now, let's look at the data from a different perspective. Sorting based on the highest gun related homicides per 100,000 people by country:

The number next to each country above represents where it ranks out of all countries in gun ownership per 100 people. So, Honduras had the highest gun related homicides per 100,000 people, but only the 87th highest gun ownership rates per 100 people, and so on.

It does not take a rocket scientist to see the lack of correlation between gun ownership, and gun related homicides. None of the top 10 gun owning countries even ranked in the top 25 in terms of gun related homicides. None of the top gun related homicide countries even ranked in the top 40 of gun ownership countries.

Now, there is a much stronger correlation that exists. Heavy gun ownership, but lower gun related deaths in European countries. Heavy gun related deaths, but lower gun ownership in Hispanic and Carribean countries. I stopped above with the top 10-12 in both scenarios, if you extend out to 20-30 countries, it becomes more obvious and equally as pronounced, and you see African countries begin to pop up on the high gun related homicide, low gun ownership list.

Now, to conclude this statistical analysis, we need to bring this back to the United States. If you carved out the 9.484 gun related homicides that were sited in the earlier post (incorrectly in reference to the pecentage, but assuming the numer was correct), what percentage of those do you think were committed in urban areas where the demographic is more closely correlated to Hispanic or Carribean countries (high gun related homicides compared to low gun ownership) vs. the European countries (high gun ownership compared to low gun related homicides)? The Newtown massacre is beyond tragic, but the reason it is in the news is because it is so horrific, but at the same time, so unusual. The majority of gun related homicides in this country don't even make the news, and I think we all know why.

Finally, someone that knows how to read statistics. Most just use what they want out of them and discard the rest.

So where does my right go to not own a weapon to protect my family? How can I defeat an Assault Weapon??? How bout making a simple solution such as no clips that hold more than 10 rounds? That satisfies hunting/protection etc... Any1 who can support 100 round clips I beg that u justify your ownership?

So where does my right go to not own a weapon to protect my family? How can I defeat an Assault Weapon??? How bout making a simple solution such as no clips that hold more than 10 rounds? That satisfies hunting/protection etc... Any1 who can support 100 round clips I beg that u justify your ownership?

I don’t recall anyone saying if you want you and your family to be defenseless and have to depend on men with guns to come rescue you in an emergency you aren’t free to do so.

How can you defeat an assault weapon?I suppose the same way you defeat any other inanimate object.

There are probably over a billion high capacity magazines in America.Best of luck banning them.

I own some 100 round magazines because they can be fun and they are a good investment.Mine don’t see much use though as they aren’t very practical and they are much less reliable than the smaller capacity magazines. Really more of a novelty, IMO.

The argument isn't taking away a basic/simple handgun or shotgun, just the ASSAULT RIFLES (hmmm doesn't that assault wording mean attack, not defend) maybe it doesn't stop every1 intending on killing a mass population to be prevented, but it may stop a couple crazies. The problem w/ this argument is that it's so basic that garbage is beyond absurd yet people object against it.. Guess cuz those guns are cool to shoot, a nuke would also be cool to set off as well

Maybe more gun owners should buy more weapons since the stats seem to lead that more of you would be killed, which may result in those of us who don't own weapons become safer...

It baffles me on common sense in this World... We claim to be knowledgable, advanced, civilized...Yet very little in this country fall in any of those categories. Suicide bomber in a mosque baffles us, yet gun holder in a school just is nuts... I could go on, but this Assault Weapon and 100 round clip is today's problem. Healthcare tom, since I also believe in a civilized country we should protect those who need it. I must digress, cuz too many people are wayyy too ignorant, and likely those folks aren't gonna read this cuz they likely can't read or comprehend

Actually assault rifles are pretty hard to get legally.They are tightly regulated by the ATF and even if they give you the green light you are probably going to have to spend at least $10,000 for one.

Yes, fewer law abiding citizens with guns and more criminals with guns does sound safer.

Since you seem to be a very “knowledgable” individual I would love to hear some of your solutions for preventing horrible events like this from happening.

SS.... I'm sure we've clashed on this topic before, YES??? Probably wayyy before 20 lil innocent kindergartners got torn up in their own school

I personally have 6 and 7 year old nieces, also a lil 2 year old nephew who is my BOY, and assuming he lives long enough his daddy (my twin) will teach him 2 destroy Grant Fuhr &/or Ron Hextall's records as well as my ole boy Andy Moog, Hell the cat has a couple of the Trottiers to teach him...

So besides what this forum is about, SPORTS, which I do get hunting a bear in alaska or deer in some of our states (tho I still have concerns hunting polar bears in alaska) topic for another day, since that garbage isn't really hunting (rather luck and circumstance) try hunting a leopard in Africa.... Yes u won't do that

Guns are clearly powerful, I know they ruled the slaves who were forced to leave africa... But as a civilized person I can only hope that those of us who recognize the power/strength are also accepting of those who defy it.. I don't think a bullet should persuade another, just the same I don't think a Nuclear weapon should persuade others... I know they do, It's friggin foolish/absurd/and beyond comprehension but way too many idiots control this world... I have studied Drake's Formula, and the chance/existence that other beings survived annihalation and survival of other species is very hard to comprehend... Annihalation had to be avoided as well as survival of the species.... Intelligence is strong for it but ignorance defies some of this common sense. Our destiny can be controlled by short term ignorance, which would be a shame tho I highly doubt in the trillions of galaxies that we'd be that unique. Our ignorance may persuade us in that viewpoint, but conceptual knowledge should lead us FAR FAR AWAY!!!!

SS.... I'm sure we've clashed on this topic before, YES??? Probably wayyy before 20 lil innocent kindergartners got torn up in their own school

I personally have 6 and 7 year old nieces, also a lil 2 year old nephew who is my BOY, and assuming he lives long enough his daddy (my twin) will teach him 2 destroy Grant Fuhr &/or Ron Hextall's records as well as my ole boy Andy Moog, Hell the cat has a couple of the Trottiers to teach him...

So besides what this forum is about, SPORTS, which I do get hunting a bear in alaska or deer in some of our states (tho I still have concerns hunting polar bears in alaska) topic for another day, since that garbage isn't really hunting (rather luck and circumstance) try hunting a leopard in Africa.... Yes u won't do that

So instead of responding to any of the things I posted directed at you you’re just going to go off on a tangent about your brother’s kids and hunting.

Guns are clearly powerful, I know they ruled the slaves who were forced to leave africa... But as a civilized person I can only hope that those of us who recognize the power/strength are also accepting of those who defy it.. I don't think a bullet should persuade another, just the same I don't think a Nuclear weapon should persuade others... I know they do, It's friggin foolish/absurd/and beyond comprehension but way too many idiots control this world... I have studied Drake's Formula, and the chance/existence that other beings survived annihalation and survival of other species is very hard to comprehend... Annihalation had to be avoided as well as survival of the species.... Intelligence is strong for it but ignorance defies some of this common sense. Our destiny can be controlled by short term ignorance, which would be a shame tho I highly doubt in the trillions of galaxies that we'd be that unique. Our ignorance may persuade us in that viewpoint, but conceptual knowledge should lead us FAR FAR AWAY!!!!

Ok, now I know you’re just f**king with me…. either that or you’re drunk/stoned posting again.

SS.... U know I can always dig JB... I just don't need lil kids killing my nephew or nieces, guess ur finding urself on the wrong side of the aisle anymore... Not George's tribe supporting you back in the start of the decade... No ill will, just common sense!!! I'll call a spade a spade, a loser a quack and a political darn a LOSER, so I try to keep it legit as much as I can!!!! That's my Deal YO....Haha, defend guns then you're defintitely a QUACK!!!

Actually assault rifles are pretty hard to get legally.They are tightly regulated by the ATF and even if they give you the green light you are probably going to have to spend at least $10,000 for one.

Yes, fewer law abiding citizens with guns and more criminals with guns does sound safer.

Since you seem to be a very “knowledgable” individual I would love to hear some of your solutions for preventing horrible events like this from happening.

Those four words, as simple as they seem, represent the complexity of the situation. To try and qualify any single resolution, in regards to what just happened, would be foolish. So as each and every single one of us grapple with the enormity of the problem, why not try and look at what just happened in hopes of holding a meaningful dialogue, with solutions of substance, instead of bickering. In the end I think the OP started this thread looking for answers just as much as all of us have in recent days.

We already know that high capacity mags are flying of the shelves, as many dealers are quoted as saying they sold out days ago. Does that mean that eliminating them all together is the answer? It probably does in the context of what just transpired, but overall presents a future problem, which is if we make them illegal now, do we have to try and force everyone who possess them to give them up? Highly unlikely. Then you have the other obvious issue, our 2nd amendment rights. I don't believe our fore fathers realized the potential that modern manufacturing had in regards to this, as at the time they were talking about single shot muzzle loaders, and flintlocks. High capacity mags vs. single shot muzzle loaders is an issue that everyone has to find middle ground on.

So where do we find common ground that makes the most overall sense in regards to never having to feel the pain we've all felt in recent days? The number one answer is probably just as complex as the gun issue, but more pertinent in more ways than one. Mental Health diagnosis and treatment in this country is a disgrace. It's pretty obvious that Adam Lanza's rage towards his mother, and the Sandy Hook victims was a direct result of mental issues. Sure we all know the ensuing carnage would have been less horrific if a six shot revolver was used, but does that make it less horrific, or any less of an issue? Maybe to some, but as far as I'm concerned, one babies senseless death, is one too many. The only good that has come from this tragedy is all the recent dialogue, so let us try not to stiffle that with pettiness and self serving rhetoric, let's objectively address the issues and hopefully prevent this from happening again. I understand this thread is about gun censorship in America, but to not include mental health issues in this country would not only be irresponsible but not include any pertinent solutions. We've all read enough examples of massive carnage in Chinese schools with knives and axes, to understand that the basic issue at hand is mental health in America. That's the first of any meaningful solutions, and let's just hope as a country we get it right this time.

SS... I truly hope you know i have never owned a weapon of any destruction. I own a chocolate labrador retreiver who is my eternal savior on life and also my savior...Tho I Have Little or even less than any comprehension of God, it's beyond such a JOKE!!! cmon basic friggin intellect???

SS.... U know I can always dig JB... I just don't need lil kids killing my nephew or nieces, guess ur finding urself on the wrong side of the aisle anymore... Not George's tribe supporting you back in the start of the decade... No ill will, just common sense!!! I'll call a spade a spade, a loser a quack and a political darn a LOSER, so I try to keep it legit as much as I can!!!! That's my Deal YO....Haha, defend guns then you're defintitely a QUACK!!!

Based on your recent string on nonsensical ramblings I’m going to go out on a limb and assume JB stands for Jim Beam.In which case, yes, I definitely know you “always dig JB.”

Those four words, as simple as they seem, represent the complexity of the situation. To try and qualify any single resolution, in regards to what just happened, would be foolish. So as each and every single one of us grapple with the enormity of the problem, why not try and look at what just happened in hopes of holding a meaningful dialogue, with solutions of substance, instead of bickering. In the end I think the OP started this thread looking for answers just as much as all of us have in recent days.

We already know that high capacity mags are flying of the shelves, as many dealers are quoted as saying they sold out days ago. Does that mean that eliminating them all together is the answer? It probably does in the context of what just transpired, but overall presents a future problem, which is if we make them illegal now, do we have to try and force everyone who possess them to give them up? Highly unlikely. Then you have the other obvious issue, our 2nd amendment rights. I don't believe our fore fathers realized the potential that modern manufacturing had in regards to this, as at the time they were talking about single shot muzzle loaders, and flintlocks. High capacity mags vs. single shot muzzle loaders is an issue that everyone has to find middle ground on.

So where do we find common ground that makes the most overall sense in regards to never having to feel the pain we've all felt in recent days? The number one answer is probably just as complex as the gun issue, but more pertinent in more ways than one. Mental Health diagnosis and treatment in this country is a disgrace. It's pretty obvious that Adam Lanza's rage towards his mother, and the Sandy Hook victims was a direct result of mental issues. Sure we all know the ensuing carnage would have been less horrific if a six shot revolver was used, but does that make it less horrific, or any less of an issue? Maybe to some, but as far as I'm concerned, one babies senseless death, is one too many. The only good that has come from this tragedy is all the recent dialogue, so let us try not to stiffle that with pettiness and self serving rhetoric, let's objectively address the issues and hopefully prevent this from happening again. I understand this thread is about gun censorship in America, but to not include mental health issues in this country would not only be irresponsible but not include any pertinent solutions. We've all read enough examples of massive carnage in Chinese schools with knives and axes, to understand that the basic issue at hand is mental health in America. That's the first of any meaningful solutions, and let's just hope as a country we get it right this time.

R.I.P. S.H.E.S.

That was directed at all the Helen Lovejoys screaming about how evil guns are without offering any kind of realistic solution, but it’s nice that someone that can actually form an intelligent thought responded.

Do you know what happened the last time high capacity mags were banned?The only difference was the price of high capacity magazines went up.They were still very easy to get.With over 300,000,000 guns in America you can probably estimate that there are at least a billion high capacity magazines.There will be, in no stretch of the imagination, in short supply.

The founders made it perfectly clear what their stance on the 2nd amendment was.I also find it a little farfetched that some of the greatest minds this country has ever known (including some inventers) couldn’t have foreseen that technology would advance throughout the years.But even if they didn’t I don’t think their opinion would change based on their writings.

Besides: do you think the founders had the internet in mind when they wrote the 1st amendment?

“... and hopefully prevent this from happening again.”

That would be nice, but unfortunately there is a 0% chance of that happening.

SS... I truly hope you know i have never owned a weapon of any destruction. I own a chocolate labrador retreiver who is my eternal savior on life and also my savior...Tho I Have Little or even less than any comprehension of God, it's beyond such a JOKE!!! cmon basic friggin intellect???

Lawmakers and educators in Texas say the way to guard against school shootings like last Friday's at a Connecticut elementary school is to make sure teachers can shoot back.

While the rampage that left 20 young children and six adults dead in a small Northeastern community has sparked a national debate on gun control, assault weapons and a culture of violence, David Thweatt, superintendent of the 103-student Harrold Independent School District in Wilbarger County, said his teachers are armed and ready to protect their young charges.

"As educators, we don’t have to be police officers and learn about Miranda Rights and related procedures. We just have to be accurate.”

- David Thweatt, superintendent of Harrold Independent School District in Texas

“We give our ‘Guardians’ training in addition to the regular Texas conceal-and-carry training,” Thweatt, whose school is about three hours northwest of Dallas, told FoxNews.com. “It mainly entails improving accuracy…You know, as educators, we don’t have to be police officers and learn about Miranda Rights and related procedures. We just have to be accurate.”

Thweatt is the architect of “The Guardian Plan,” a blueprint for arming school staff, including teachers, that may be catching on, at least in the Lone Star state. Teachers there are allowed to have weapons in the classroom, as Thweatt's faculty members do, but State Attorney General Greg Abbott suggested Monday that lawmakers may consider ways to encourage the practice statewide.

"Bearing arms whether by teachers and guards and things like that will be all a part of more comprehensive policy issues for the legislature to take up in the coming weeks," Abbott said. "And you can be assured in the aftermath of what happened in Connecticut that these legislators care dearly about the lives of students at their schools and they will evaluate all possible measures that are necessary to protect those lives," he said.

More momentum for the idea is evidenced by Austin gun shop dealer Crocket Keller, who announced his store will now extend the same discount on firearm purchases to teachers as it does to veterans.

Thweatt said there have been no incidents since October 2007, when his district adopted the plan giving an unspecified number of teachers and school staff -- dubbed "Guardians" -- authority to carry concealed weapons on school premises. Participating staff are anonymous and known only to Thweatt and the school board, which must approve each application for an employee to become a Guardian. They receive a small stipend annually.

“We’re 18 miles and 30 minutes from the nearest police station," Thweatt said. "So we are our first responders. If something happened here, we would have to protect our children. You know, police officers are true, everyday heroes in my book, but one of them once told me something very revealing. He said, ‘Ninety-five percent of the time, we get to the scene late.’ I can’t afford to let that happen.”

Each Guardian must obtain a Texas conceal-and-carry permit, and must lock-and-load their weapons with “frangible” bullets that break apart when colliding with a target. “They go through people,” assured Thweatt.

“They’re very similar to what the air marshals use. The bullets are glued together with polymers, and we insist upon them because we don’t want the bullet to ricochet off a wall after it’s fired and hit a child.”

Thweatt says parents have embraced The Guardian Plan, a fact evidenced by the transfer rate into his school district. “We’re a high-transfer district,” he told FoxNews.com, “which means only 18 percent of students come to the school because they live in the district. The rest transfer in or choose to come here from other districts.”

There’s a simple thread, Thweatt says, that binds together many of the mass shootings that have recently rocked the U.S.: They happened in places where the shooter knew there was going to be little resistance.

“These shooters, even though they are evil and have mental problems, they inevitably know where they are going,” explained Thweatt. “They are going where they won’t get any resistance. Let’s put it this way, would you put a sign in front of your house that says, ‘I am against guns. You will find no resistance here?’ That would be a stupid thing to do. You’re going to invite people who like to take advantage of helpless individuals.

“Would my policy have stopped this?” Thweatt asked. “Nobody knows for sure or for 100 percent, but what we do know is that active shooters go where there is no one there to resist. The Guardian Plan addresses that fact.”

Lawmakers and educators in Texas say the way to guard against school shootings like last Friday's at a Connecticut elementary school is to make sure teachers can shoot back.

While the rampage that left 20 young children and six adults dead in a small Northeastern community has sparked a national debate on gun control, assault weapons and a culture of violence, David Thweatt, superintendent of the 103-student Harrold Independent School District in Wilbarger County, said his teachers are armed and ready to protect their young charges.

"As educators, we don’t have to be police officers and learn about Miranda Rights and related procedures. We just have to be accurate.”

- David Thweatt, superintendent of Harrold Independent School District in Texas

“We give our ‘Guardians’ training in addition to the regular Texas conceal-and-carry training,” Thweatt, whose school is about three hours northwest of Dallas, told FoxNews.com. “It mainly entails improving accuracy…You know, as educators, we don’t have to be police officers and learn about Miranda Rights and related procedures. We just have to be accurate.”

Thweatt is the architect of “The Guardian Plan,” a blueprint for arming school staff, including teachers, that may be catching on, at least in the Lone Star state. Teachers there are allowed to have weapons in the classroom, as Thweatt's faculty members do, but State Attorney General Greg Abbott suggested Monday that lawmakers may consider ways to encourage the practice statewide.

"Bearing arms whether by teachers and guards and things like that will be all a part of more comprehensive policy issues for the legislature to take up in the coming weeks," Abbott said. "And you can be assured in the aftermath of what happened in Connecticut that these legislators care dearly about the lives of students at their schools and they will evaluate all possible measures that are necessary to protect those lives," he said.

More momentum for the idea is evidenced by Austin gun shop dealer Crocket Keller, who announced his store will now extend the same discount on firearm purchases to teachers as it does to veterans.

Thweatt said there have been no incidents since October 2007, when his district adopted the plan giving an unspecified number of teachers and school staff -- dubbed "Guardians" -- authority to carry concealed weapons on school premises. Participating staff are anonymous and known only to Thweatt and the school board, which must approve each application for an employee to become a Guardian. They receive a small stipend annually.

“We’re 18 miles and 30 minutes from the nearest police station," Thweatt said. "So we are our first responders. If something happened here, we would have to protect our children. You know, police officers are true, everyday heroes in my book, but one of them once told me something very revealing. He said, ‘Ninety-five percent of the time, we get to the scene late.’ I can’t afford to let that happen.”

Each Guardian must obtain a Texas conceal-and-carry permit, and must lock-and-load their weapons with “frangible” bullets that break apart when colliding with a target. “They go through people,” assured Thweatt.

“They’re very similar to what the air marshals use. The bullets are glued together with polymers, and we insist upon them because we don’t want the bullet to ricochet off a wall after it’s fired and hit a child.”

Thweatt says parents have embraced The Guardian Plan, a fact evidenced by the transfer rate into his school district. “We’re a high-transfer district,” he told FoxNews.com, “which means only 18 percent of students come to the school because they live in the district. The rest transfer in or choose to come here from other districts.”

There’s a simple thread, Thweatt says, that binds together many of the mass shootings that have recently rocked the U.S.: They happened in places where the shooter knew there was going to be little resistance.

“These shooters, even though they are evil and have mental problems, they inevitably know where they are going,” explained Thweatt. “They are going where they won’t get any resistance. Let’s put it this way, would you put a sign in front of your house that says, ‘I am against guns. You will find no resistance here?’ That would be a stupid thing to do. You’re going to invite people who like to take advantage of helpless individuals.

“Would my policy have stopped this?” Thweatt asked. “Nobody knows for sure or for 100 percent, but what we do know is that active shooters go where there is no one there to resist. The Guardian Plan addresses that fact.”

99.99 percent of gun owners don't have the courage to kill another person in an open environment!

This isn't a closed setting with imobile targets at a gun range!

Evil is the problem, of course! you don't give people the chance to be evil! You take away guns!

That mother did not need assault rifles in her home and without them there is no murder!

Fact.

Look no further than the recent stabbingd in a Chinese elementary Schiller to see evil will always be present but death doesnt need to be so easily accessible by gunfire!

The world is in awe of the ridiculous gun laws in the USA!

You completely missed the point with the swimming pools.

First off, the mother did not have an assault rifle (much less multiple ones) so you might want to get your facts straight.Secondly, there are 300,000,000 guns in America.To clam if this woman didn’t own guns then her son wouldn’t have been able to get a gun is beyond asinine.

It cracks me up how people in other countries think the majority of US citizens give a crap about what foreigners think of them.Get over yourself.

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