1 <Day 21 Wednesday, 16th February 2000 2(10.30 a.m.) 3< Professor Evans, recalled. 4< Cross-Examined by Mr Irving, continued. 5MR JUSTICE GRAY: Mr Irving? 6MR IRVING: May it please the court. My Lord, this morning 7I shall deal with the Reichskristallnacht, the Night of 8Broken Glass, and then, as a useful exercise, I will put 9before the witness a bundle of documents, which is the 10chain of documents referred to. We will go through that 11and invite his opinion on that as an expert on the various 12documents. 13MR JUSTICE GRAY: Certainly. 14MR IRVING: My Lord, we left the operation yesterday, we left 15the battlefield, so to speak, I had advanced about 250 16pages into the minefield. There were a number of smoke 17screens which had been laid by the witness and others and 18by the documents, and I am now going to proceed through 19the smoke screen into Reichskristallnacht. But, first of 20all, I wanted to ask the witness briefly about page 210 of 21your expert report, which is a matter which will be 22covered by the documents later on, where you criticised 23the fact that ---- 24A.
[Professor Richard John Evans]
I am sorry, I have not brought this with me. I thought we 25were going to start with Kristallnacht. Can I have a 26copy?

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1Q.
[Mr Irving]
I will just read it out, it is just one sentence. 2A.
[Professor Richard John Evans]
No, I will have a copy, please. 3Q.
[Mr Irving]
Let me put it to you. You say that my position on Hitler 4on all these issues is highly favourable to Hitler. 5A.
[Professor Richard John Evans]
Yes. 6Q.
[Mr Irving]
You criticise me for adopting positions on Adolf Hitler 7and his decisions that are sometimes favourable. 8A.
[Professor Richard John Evans]
Could you point me to where I do that, please? 9Q.
[Mr Irving]
On page 210 you say: "Irving's position on all these 10issues" -- this is paragraph 4.1.10 -- "is highly 11favourable to Hitler". 12A.
[Professor Richard John Evans]
I am commenting in this section on the allegation by 13Professor Lipstadt that you are, I think, "an admirer of 14Hitler". I cannot exactly remember the precise words. 15MR JUSTICE GRAY: That is one of them, yes. 16MR IRVING: Which is why I am asking you to expand on this one 17sentence where you say that Irving adopts a position on 18all these issues, which we have been into before, which is 19highly favourable on Hitler, and I was asking you whether 20it is wrong for an historian at any time to say things 21that are favourable to Hitler. 22A.
[Professor Richard John Evans]
If that goes against the evidence, yes. 23Q.
[Mr Irving]
Does it not put me in precisely the same position as an 24historian like AJP Taylor, who, as you pointed out, is not 25a Professor, not an academic, but a very well-known 26perhaps even notorious writer before his death, and who

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1was also very well-known for adopting positions where he 2came under criticism for having adopted positions which 3were also favourable to Hitler on certain points? 4A.
[Professor Richard John Evans]
Well, of course, AJP Taylor was an academic. He was a 5Fellow and tutor in modern history at Magdalen College, 6Oxford for many years. Indeed, he was a Professor towards 7the end of his life in another university. He was heavily 8criticized. There was a long debate about that. He was 9not shown, to my knowledge, to have deliberately 10manipulated or falsified historical evidence in order to 11arrive at what was alleged to be. And what he denied to 12be. His position. 13Q.
[Mr Irving]
But he did adopt positions that were on occasions 14favourable to Hitler, did he not? 15A.
[Professor Richard John Evans]
If you can cite them to me? 16Q.
[Mr Irving]
Here is a copy of AJP Taylor's very well-known book, 17'Origins of the Second World War'. Can you turn to page 187, for example? He says there, for example, does he not: 19"Historians often dislike what happened or wished it had 20happened differently. There is nothing they can do about 21it. They have to state the truth as they see it without 22worrying whether this shocks or confirms existing 23prejudices." Is that a fair statement of the position of 24an historian? 25A.
[Professor Richard John Evans]
Yes. 26Q.
[Mr Irving]
He should write what he finds, what happened and why?

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1A.
[Professor Richard John Evans]
Yes. 2Q.
[Mr Irving]
Even if he is going to be accused of saying things that 3are favourable to Hitler or Stalin, or Churchill, or 4Roosevelt, he just should write what he finds. The fact 5that he writes something favourable to a great personality 6of history is not ipso facto perverse? 7A.
[Professor Richard John Evans]
No. It depends how you arrive at that position, of 8course. 9Q.
[Mr Irving]
Then there is another position I am accused of in my 10books, is there not, that by my books or by my writings 11I give comfort to people on the extreme right. Is that 12one of the allegations against me? 13A.
[Professor Richard John Evans]
You would have to point that out. I do not think 14I comment on that in this section. 15Q.
[Mr Irving]
On pages 8 to 9, does he also write: "I have no sympathy 16with those in this country who complain that my book had 17been welcomed, mistakenly or not, by former supporters of 18Hitler. This seems to me a disgraceful argument to be 19used against a work of history. The historian must not 20hesitate, even if his books lend aid or comfort to the 21Queen's enemies or even the common enemies of mankind". 22A.
[Professor Richard John Evans]
Well, you did leave out a little about there. Let me read 23that last sentence again: "An historian must not 24hesitate, even if his books lend aid and comfort to the 25Queen's enemies though mine did not, or even to the common 26enemies of mankind". You did not indicate there to the