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Mrgrgr

Is Nintendo Land an RPG? Is Tales first-party franchise? Not sure what you're saying.

I'm not saying that releasing this Symphonia collection on the Wii U would be a good idea. I just don't think it's the genre that's the issue - most games would be better off on a system other than the Wii U right now.

This is why I feel Nintendo's software performance will be more interesting than normal, since I imagine any third parties considering the system will look at how each game performs and then decide if it makes sense to release games on the system in whatever genre the game Nintendo released was in.

Banned

This is why I feel Nintendo's software performance will be more interesting than normal, since I imagine any third parties considering the system will look at how each game performs and then decide if it makes sense to release games on the system in whatever genre the game Nintendo released was in.

Member

This is why I feel Nintendo's software performance will be more interesting than normal, since I imagine any third parties considering the system will look at how each game performs and then decide if it makes sense to release games on the system in whatever genre the game Nintendo released was in.

Member

This is why I feel Nintendo's software performance will be more interesting than normal, since I imagine any third parties considering the system will look at how each game performs and then decide if it makes sense to release games on the system in whatever genre the game Nintendo released was in.

I think that might be why X was given more importance than Xenoblade or The Last Story. Back when it was revealed there was a lot of people who still thought Nintendo Directs were small time but it was significant that X was treated as the headline game similar to how a Link to the Past 2 was revealed recently. They're clearly hoping that the success of Xenoblade can help them position it as a big, core oriented franchise.

The double edged sword is that if the games don't do well they send the opposite message to publishers, but given the kind of support Nintendo tends to get anyway, they really have nothing to lose by trying, and a lot to gain if they ever do get some success.

I think that might be why X was given more importance than Xenoblade or The Last Story. Back when it was revealed there was a lot of people who still thought Nintendo Directs were small time but it was significant that X was treated as the headline game similar to how a Link to the Past 2 was revealed recently. They're clearly hoping that the success of Xenoblade can help them position it as a big, core oriented franchise.

I feel it also helps that X is coming out much earlier in the generation, so someone could actually consider the platform after looking at its results instead of its successor being right around the corner.

Of course this is all under the stipulation that the PS4 doesn't show notably more success for JRPGs to the point they don't show up on the Wii U due to perceived opportunity cost, but it's definitely worth a shot.

If the Wii U doesn't perform well this holiday season, it's going to be hard to command lots of shelf space in 2014 with another new platform on the market and the 3DS continuing to ramp up in the number of games it's getting.

It also of course can result in lower initial shipments for software, which is usually not helpful.

Member

The double edged sword is that if the games don't do well they send the opposite message to publishers, but given the kind of support Nintendo tends to get anyway, they really have nothing to lose by trying, and a lot to gain if they ever do get some success.

I feel it also helps that X is coming out much earlier in the generation, so someone could actually consider the platform after looking at its results instead of its successor being right around the corner.

Of course this is all under the stipulation that the PS4 doesn't show notably more success for JRPGs to the point they don't show up on the Wii U due to perceived opportunity cost, but it's definitely worth a shot.

The strategy of attracting games with games is one thing. The need to attract games with games is another. Perhaps Nintendo adopted the strategy without fully realizing the need for it.
At this point, the entire ecosystem is looks like it has a grim future. Nintendo's stuck with solving it themselves.

Member

I feel it also helps that X is coming out much earlier in the generation, so someone could actually consider the platform after looking at its results instead of its successor being right around the corner.

Of course this is all under the stipulation that the PS4 doesn't show notably more success for JRPGs to the point they don't show up on the Wii U due to perceived opportunity cost, but it's definitely worth a shot.

It's weird because Nintendo is definitely a strong publisher when it comes to JRPGs(although certainly stronger on portables). Not only do they have Pokémon but they also have the Mario RPGs, Golden Sun, Mother, Fire Emblem(if you're counting them) and newer ones like Xenoblade and The Last Story. They've also been able to make games like Tales of Symphonia and Dragon Quest IX successes in the west when their native publishers have struggled. For those reasons I would've thought it'd make sense to at least try on Nintendo platforms.

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!

It's weird because Nintendo is definitely a strong publisher when it comes to JRPGs(although certainly stronger on portables). Not only do they have Pokémon but they also have the Mario RPGs, Golden Sun, Mother, Fire Emblem(if you're counting them) and newer ones like Xenoblade and The Last Story. They've also been able to make games like Tales of Symphonia and Dragon Quest IX successes in the west when their native publishers have struggled. For those reasons I would've thought it'd make sense to at least try on Nintendo platforms.

Wii wasn't a good platform for RPG. Probably due to PS3 being the destination of FFXIII and other good titles saleswise since before it launched, but it still wasn't that good. Tales of Graces sold around how much Tales of Vesperia sold. On 360.

Banned

The double edged sword is that if the games don't do well they send the opposite message to publishers, but given the kind of support Nintendo tends to get anyway, they really have nothing to lose by trying, and a lot to gain if they ever do get some success.

I feel it also helps that X is coming out much earlier in the generation, so someone could actually consider the platform after looking at its results instead of its successor being right around the corner.

Of course this is all under the stipulation that the PS4 doesn't show notably more success for JRPGs to the point they don't show up on the Wii U due to perceived opportunity cost, but it's definitely worth a shot.

The strategy of attracting games with games is one thing. The need to attract games with games is another. Perhaps Nintendo adopted the strategy without fully realizing the need for it.
At this point, the entire ecosystem is looks like it has a grim future. Nintendo's stuck with solving it themselves.

It's weird because Nintendo is definitely a strong publisher when it comes to JRPGs(although certainly stronger on portables). Not only do they have Pokémon but they also have the Mario RPGs, Golden Sun, Mother, Fire Emblem(if you're counting them) and newer ones like Xenoblade and The Last Story. They've also been able to make games like Tales of Symphonia and Dragon Quest IX successes in the west when their native publishers have struggled. For those reasons I would've thought it'd make sense to at least try on Nintendo platforms.

Wii wasn't a good platform for RPG. Probably due to PS3 being the destination of FFXIII and other good titles saleswise since before it launched, but it still wasn't that good. Tales of Graces sold around how much Tales of Vesperia sold. On 360.

Nintendo needs to change the perception of certain gaming audiences and devs/pubs. But this won't be done in 1 year or any short period of time. It might actually require an investment over the entire console cycle.

Member

Wii wasn't a good platform for RPG. Probably due to PS3 being the destination of FFXIII and other good titles saleswise since before it launched, but it still wasn't that good. Tales of Graces sold around how much Tales of Vesperia sold. On 360.

That's true but I think Graces came relatively late and it launched next to FFXIII. But other than Graces what third party JRPGs were there? Symphonia 2, Arc Rise Fantasia and Kizuna? There were very few attempts.

Member

Nintendo needs to change the perception of certain gaming audiences and devs/pubs. But this won't be done in 1 year or any short period of time. It might actually require an investment over the entire console cycle.

I'm not sure if it'd actually help the situation. I don't think there's an inherent negative perception regarding the combination of Nintendo and RPGs or other genres. Nintendo's handhelds are quite strong in that are and people buy the games. However, it's the kind of audience that likes to play with powerful hardware when they decide to play a game on their TV. Nintendo can buy dozens of exclusives for their home console, but when given the choice a lot of people would probably still pick up those games on the more powerful hardware when they've the chance.

Member

Wii wasn't a good platform for RPG. Probably due to PS3 being the destination of FFXIII and other good titles saleswise since before it launched, but it still wasn't that good. Tales of Graces sold around how much Tales of Vesperia sold. On 360.

Honestly I think part of Graces mediocre performance on Wii is due to Namco releasing the PS3 port of Vesperia a few month prior. A big bunch of potential buyers probably figured Graces would come to PS3 eventually. That was only part of the problem though and the Wii was indeed a mediocre console for Jrpg, unfortunately.

Mrgrgr

It's weird because Nintendo is definitely a strong publisher when it comes to JRPGs(although certainly stronger on portables). Not only do they have Pokémon but they also have the Mario RPGs, Golden Sun, Mother, Fire Emblem(if you're counting them) and newer ones like Xenoblade and The Last Story. They've also been able to make games like Tales of Symphonia and Dragon Quest IX successes in the west when their native publishers have struggled. For those reasons I would've thought it'd make sense to at least try on Nintendo platforms.

That's true but I think Graces came relatively late and it launched next to FFXIII. But other than Graces what third party JRPGs were there? Symphonia 2, Arc Rise Fantasia and Kizuna? There were very few attempts.

Nintendo released a lot of high performing JRPGs on the DS and 3DS, and we're seeing lots of third party JRPGs on the platform.

Early last generation we saw a bunch of major JRPGs being announced for PlayStation3 and Xbox 360, while basically none were being announced for the Wii either from a first or third party perspective.

Now this generation we're currently seeing high profile JRPG series like Final Fantasy, Tales, and Dark Souls skipping the Wii U. If Square Enix gets up on stage at E3 and announced Final Fantasy XV exclusively for PS4, the message that's being sent to every third party who makes games in the genre is "The Wii U is not a platform for JRPGs." and "The PS4 is a platform for JRPGs." Even if there's no FF announcement at E3, we still at least have the first message being sent currently by the highest console performers in the genre.

Basically what Nintendo would need to do is get multiple high performing JRPGs on their platform by whatever means possible, at which point third parties would turn and notice.

I mean we're even seeing a lot of Japanese developers start to release games on PC because a few titles took the first steps and showed good results, and then the rest started to follow.

Of course, as wrowa said, the games ultimately have to appeal to consumers. Even high production value RTS games failed to really take off on consoles because the audience just wasn't ever favorable to the control scheme.

It wasn't so much a question, just a point that the JRPG is probably one of the genres that Nintendo actually has a chance of building up on their systems as it one that they've personally invested in. In comparison to X I think Bayonetta 2 will struggle because Nintendo has never really been involved in the genre, despite the fact that both games are follow up to very well received games.

... and to be honest I'd say the 3DS's JRPG lineup is surprisingly poor. Although I don't think its third party support has been anything special.

There have definitely been some under-performers on the WiiU relative to retail's expectations, but retailers aren't getting badly burned on any title that only ships ~30k to begin with.

Retailers get badly burned when there are 100k+ copies of stock that they can't unload. Sitting on 15k of hard to move stock across the entire country isn't burning anybody. It's certainly not leaving a good impression - but the retailers aren't taking a beating when the initial shipments are so tiny to begin with.

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Yes, really. I'd say things are definitely improving but third parties have been very cautious in regards to 3DS and some publishers such as Tecmo Koei and Marvelous seem to have shifted their attentions to Vita.

Member

The notion that from the beginning the PS3 was this unbeatable behemoth that all the publishers backed with super popular RPGs is some seriously bizarre revisionism. By the end of 2008, Namco and Square both had announced that the next mainline entries for both Tales and Dragon Quest (We didn't learn about it being an MMO until much, much later) would be Wii exclusive. By this point in time the most high profile PS3 exclusive released or even announced for the system since FF13 in 2006 was Disgaea 3. Publishers embraced the system at before release but quickly turned sour as it received very limited support until the very end of 2009 and beyond (Many games announced in 2006 were either quietly cancelled or made multiplatform), a full 3 years after the system hit the market.

The problem is that having some token software isn't really sufficient to cultivate a particular audience, imo. If the brand and ecosystem as a whole still isn't positioned towards catering to that market, then it's not going to work.

Beyond a few platitudes about the Wii U being about "you" and wanting to bring back the "core", the Wii U is simply not a system positioned towards the gaming demos that publishers target with their core properties.

Nintendo like to be a broad tent. They want to protect their all-inclusive, family-friendly brand and IPs, which is perfectly understandable. It's an image built over decades.

But it can consequently be alienating to the segment of consumers that buys hardware at launch and drives up tie ratios.

Mrgrgr

The problem is that having some token software isn't really sufficient to cultivate a particular audience, imo. If the brand and ecosystem as a whole still isn't positioned towards catering to that market, then it's not going to work.

Beyond a few platitudes about the Wii U being about "you" and wanting to bring back the "core", the Wii U is simply not a system positioned towards the gaming demos that publishers target with their core properties.

Nintendo like to be a broad tent. They want to protect their all-inclusive, family-friendly brand and IPs, which is perfectly understandable. It's an image built over decades.

But it can consequently be alienating to the segment of consumers that buys hardware at launch and drives up tie ratios.

I agree with your core point, it's just that the blue ocean doesn't seem to be working that hot for Nintendo anymore on the console front (and arguably the handheld front looking at what's selling and what's not), so I understand why they might want to head back out.

Like I personally don't expect them to have any luck in actually courting the core audience outside of the people who were going to buy the system for Nintendo's games eventually anyway, but they do have to start somewhere if they want part of the red ocean.

Perhaps they should have made their new console aimed at the $200 price point with a control method that was cheaper to implement. If the Xbox 360 can hit that price point (and is rumored to have a $99 version coming up), it shouldn't be impossible to make a system with a novel control interface for Nintendo games that costs the same. Instead they're currently selling at $300/$350 and apparently losing money.

It might not be the world's most profitable device ever, but it would probably be doing better than the Wii U and could cater to the Nintendo fanbase and various niche audiences that they might be able to build an audience for. It would also be a lot more accessible for parents to buy for children, which is one of their major strengths still since they don't only output M games like many of the Western publishers do.

Member

Was Zombi U really an attempt at chasing a different demographic though? it was originally a rabbids game that became some weird comedy alien game that eventually became a zombie game. Wasn't it WiiU exclusive the whole time it was going through these changes?

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I agree with your core point, it's just that the blue ocean doesn't seem to be working that hot for Nintendo anymore on the console front (and arguably the handheld front looking at what's selling and what's not), so I understand why they might want to head back out.

Like I personally don't expect them to have any luck in actually courting the core audience outside of the people who were going to buy the system for Nintendo's games eventually anyway, but they do have to start somewhere if they want part of the red ocean.

Perhaps they should have made their new console aimed at the $200 price point with a control method that was cheaper to implement. If the Xbox 360 can hit that price point (and is rumored to have a $99 version coming up), it shouldn't be impossible to make a system with a novel control interface for Nintendo games that costs the same. Instead they're currently selling at $300/$350 and apparently losing money.

It might not be the world's most profitable device ever, but it would probably be doing better than the Wii U and could cater to the Nintendo fanbase and various niche audiences that they might be able to build an audience for. It would also be a lot more accessible for parents to buy for children, which is one of their major strengths still since they don't only output M games like many of the Western publishers do.

I think what you're suggesting would have worked a lot better; they seemed to think they could recreate the Wii - and I'd liken it to someone deliberately trying to make a viral video. It rarely works.

At a lower price point they'd probably be competing better for consumers looking for a cheaper family device (against the PS3 and 360, both of which offer a great deal more value to those consumers right now.)

Was Zombi U really an attempt at chasing a different demographic though? it was originally a rabbids game that became some weird comedy alien game that eventually became a zombie game. Wasn't it WiiU exclusive the whole time it was going through these changes?

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!

Little warning: Comgnet Weekly Sales results are MUCH less reliable than Comgnet Daily Preorders results, looking at history. Yeah, many times there can be correlations that can hint at how a game will actually sell, but there are also many imperfections, especially for games after their debut week. For example, looking at last Comgnet Weekly Chart, I'd have to believe that Shin Hokuto Musou will reappear in top 10 after so many months, after being a fail. Yeah, sure XD

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Already been through this on the last page. The game had about 45k copies left on the market (according to sell through data from Media Create), and no more shipments until June 13 (according to Amazon).

Member

I agree with your core point, it's just that the blue ocean doesn't seem to be working that hot for Nintendo anymore on the console front (and arguably the handheld front looking at what's selling and what's not), so I understand why they might want to head back out.

As evidenced by recent NPD sales and Pal charts, Wii hardware and software is actually selling better than the Wii U despite the former not receiving any notable support of any kind. So on a global basis overall, I think that Blue Ocean market is still there. Diminished but still there. It's just that Nintendo stopped supporting the Wii market to switch over to 3DS / Wii U.