The Official Fallout Group

Whether you feel like the original Fallout titles were better than 3, or never played the originals and are just wondering how Bethesda's amazing reinvention stacks up to its isometric predecessors, this is where you can meet up with other wastelanders and

Fallout 3 or New Vegas?

New Vegas wasn't very different from Fallout 3. There were, however, still many minor differences in the gameplay and how you generally handled situations given to you that changed the game for the better. Major factions played big roles in how you played the game, and the story generally made your character more of an individual. I felt like I took control of situations instead of just fixing problems that the developers threw in. Factions also required you to be more connected with the world. Gameplay was given small changes like looking through the sights that made the gameplay better as a whole. Still, Fallout 3 is my favorite. Which is your favorite?

1 Peter 3:15 (NASB): "But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence."

Definitely Fallout 3. New Vegas improved the combat system and had the best followers of any Bethesda-style game IMO, where they felt like decently developed and interesting characters rather than the boring drill you find in Skyrim, for instance. However, New Vegas completely dropped the ball on the thematic and meaningful world elements that made Fallout 3 the intelligent and meaningful game it is, making its world just a boring wasteland with little in the way of intellectually stimulating story or theme.

However, New Vegas completely dropped the ball on the thematic and meaningful world elements that made Fallout 3 the intelligent and meaningful game it is, making its world just a boring wasteland with little in the way of intellectually stimulating story or theme.

Hahaha, you called Fallout 3 "intelligent." Yeah, rehashing old stories in a way that is completely contradictory to the lore and has boring and dumb characters and crappy writing is really "intelligent." If New Vegas did anything well, it was having a good, original, well-written story that was non-linear and was consistent with the lore

And clearly someone doesn't understand the difference between "Story" and "Theme". What you are talking about is Story - the central plot. A good story are a dime a dozen in games and center around interesting characters and plot devices, and are primarily present for entertainment value. A theme centers around the message a piece is trying to convey: something that makes the story more than just an entertainment piece. Examples of this would be the satirical messages of dystopian novels such as Brave New World or The Giver: these literary pieces exceed the role of simple entertainment by having a driving message. Said messages are also seen in games on rare occasions, in titles such as Journey, Shadow of the Colossus, Super Metroid, Bioshock, and yes, Fallout 3. New Vegas had hints of this, especially in areas such as Vault 11, but overall failed to be such a compelling thematic piece as Fallout 3, where every place, person, and thing in the world had some form of compelling story to tell, and nearly all of these stories had some form of thematic drive behind them. Personally I felt Fallout 3 bested New Vegas in both story and theme, but that is obviously just an opinion, but saying that Fallout 3 had no thematic elements, or had less than New Vegas, is simply ignoring what was there, either by willful ignorance or simple oversight.

And clearly someone doesn't understand the difference between "Story" and "Theme". What you are talking about is Story - the central plot. A good story are a dime a dozen in games and center around interesting characters and plot devices, and are primarily present for entertainment value. A theme centers around the message a piece is trying to convey: something that makes the story more than just an entertainment piece. Examples of this would be the satirical messages of dystopian novels such as Brave New World or The Giver: these literary pieces exceed the role of simple entertainment by having a driving message. Said messages are also seen in games on rare occasions, in titles such as Journey, Shadow of the Colossus, Super Metroid, Bioshock, and yes, Fallout 3. New Vegas had hints of this, especially in areas such as Vault 11, but overall failed to be such a compelling thematic piece as Fallout 3, where every place, person, and thing in the world had some form of compelling story to tell, and nearly all of these stories had some form of thematic drive behind them. Personally I felt Fallout 3 bested New Vegas in both story and theme, but that is obviously just an opinion, but saying that Fallout 3 had no thematic elements, or had less than New Vegas, is simply ignoring what was there, either by willful ignorance or simple oversight.

Yeah, I guess "story" can be a more general term than "plot." But if that's what we're going with, I still didn't think the "story" in Fallout 3 was very good. It's horrible plot-wise, but thematically, I just didn't think it succeeded in most of what it was going for (and it certainly went for a lot) The harsh realities of the wasteland? The game was too easy and the characters made it harder on themselves due to their own stupidity. Choosing between good and evil or choices and consequences in general? Far more black and white than New Vegas, where there was a theme of choosing between the lesser of two evils (or the greater of two goods) because no answer was truly perfect one way or another. Not to mention everything could be instantly flipped around in Fallout 3 to where eve the most evil character could become a saint. And every character having a compelling story? I felt those side quests in New Vegas were far more interesting (especially your followers, who should). I thought both games nailed the retrofuturistic elements, although Fallout 3 shoved it in your face a little more. I don't know what other themes you're talking about, but I'm probably forgetting some

And Super Metroid was that thematic? Enlighten me. I get what you're going for with The Giver, Bioshock, Brave New World, kind of with Shadow of the Colossus, and even with Fallout 3 (although it failed at it, it certainly had them); I haven't played Journey. But Super Metroid? The story was too basic to have some deep thematic meaning

Super Metroid was pretty much the pioneer of theme in games actually. The thing is, its hard to notice because it isn't thrown in your face, its implemented very subtly, like the characterization of Samus. To see it, you have to ask why. Why did Samus not kill the baby metroid at the end of Metroid 2, after being ordered to eliminate the entire species, and doing so down to this last member? Why does she decide to follow Ridley, her most deadly foe, to a planet where she very nearly had already met her demise, in order to try and save it, when she is not ordered to do so? Why does she fight through a literal army on top of hostile terrain and wildlife to attempt to save something she was ordered to kill? Was it an act of emotion towards this creature? If so, why did she show no emotion in destroying the rest of the species? Did she realize the danger allowing the space pirates to hold onto the creature posed to the galaxy? If so, why did she just not kill it in the first place? Did she realize saving the creature was a mistake on her part, and decided to stop the space pirates from weaponizing it to cover said mistake, as to avoid punishment from the federation for disobeying orders or to save her own reputation? The game raises a huge number of questions that it trust the player to critically evaluate and make their own decisions upon, much as someone would about actions in real life. The game also makes statements concerning the role of biological weaponry, with regards to the weaponization of the metroids, the effects and consequences of genocide or forced mass extinction, no matter what the reasons, by showing the effects of Samus's exploits in Metroid 2, though this is delved into more in Fusion. It also tries to make statements about the true value of intelligence with regards to the metroids: Is the discovery of a form of emotional and intellectual presence within the metroids what caused Samus to save the creature at the end, and does it further affect the events seen at the conclusion of the game? Super Metroid raises a huge number of questions in regards to biological weaponry and the value of intelligence in non-human beings, which is a truly amazing feat for a game with no dialogue. It is more a question raiser than an answer given, and respects the player enough to allow them to form their own thoughts and opinions on the story elements given.

Remember, not all theme is made immediately evident or obvious, especially in video games. The best games are able to work their themes into the world and gameplay, like Journey and SotC, which is what allows games like them,Super Metroid, and others like Majoras Mask, to put forth their statements without dialogue. Some, like Fallout 3, Bioshock, and Little Inferno, choose to portray their theme in both direct story portrayal and in the gameplay/world. It's just a matter of being able to recognize what the game is trying to say, even if it doesn't use dialogue or a cutscene to say it.

Well, I've never played Metroid 2 so I can't really comment on that connection, but jeeze; and I thought I overanalyzed things. Look, maybe I just don't remember it that well or maybe it has something to do with the fact that you have a greater perspective on the series. But to me, it just seems like you're grasping for strands of the most basic thematic elements on a game that doesn't have much in the way of storytelling. I get subtlety, and I get games like Shadow of the Colossus (now that I'm remembering it a bit better) and Majora's Mask do that, but Super Metroid really seems like a stretch, even though I get where you think the themes are coming from. I feel like Final Fantasy or some aspects of the Zelda series were better pioneers of modern themes and storytelling in video games, where as Metroid was more for gameplay and world design (and female protagonists)

Its just differences in interpretations. Like opinions, everyone interprets things differently, which is seen all the time with regards to things like religious text or thematic writing pieces like Catcher in the Rye or The Lord of the Flies. I saw things in Super Metroid that you didn't, it doesn't make either one of us right or wrong. However, just for a frame of reference, I played Super Metroid less than 2 years ago for the first time, so I do have a fairly recent recollection of it.

I mean, I didn't play Super Metroid until fairly recently either, but I never played Metroid 2 or got much out of Super Metroid storywise. Again, I get what straws you're grasping for (and you're obviously entitled to your own interpretation), but they're still straws. I feel like there are games that have done that better or more effectively, and Super Metroid didn't do much with it so much as it was just there. It's not some great, thematic magnus opus, it's just a game with a pretty basic story as far as I can see

And I respectfully disagree, but as you pointed out, Metroids themes are more spread out over the core 3 games (2, Super, and Fusion) rather than being localized in a single game, Super just happens to be the catalyst for most of these themes. I don't think they're straws at all, but pretty centric to the overall plot, even though that plot requires a greater level of thought by the player to fully realize than do most games.

I don't think there was much thought put into the story of Metroid games until maybe Metroid Prime (and even then). Super Metroid isn't story-heavy, nor is it really meant to be. Most games back then really weren't. That doesn't make it a bad game, it just doesn't make it a game with a deep story. Regardless, maybe I'll check out Metroid 2 and finish Fusion finally and see if I agree with you from that overall standpoint

Once again, you have your interpretation I have mine. You don't see much story in Super Metroid, I see a lot. Neither one of us can really be right or wrong because its just personal interpretation.

I mean, if you really want to go that route, I just...I know there's story there but you don't think you're reading too much into it at all? And even so, it doesn't feel very basic. Seriously, I got where you were going with the other games and I get where you're coming from, but still