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George Zimmerman Case – April 30, 2013 Hearing

This post is in regards to the hearing. So let’s discuss that and the issues that will be discussed at that hearing. Hopefully I will be able to capture the hearing. However I like to remind folks that there are like only two people left who go out of there way to record the hearing streams, me and the other guy. So I strongly suggest you get yourself a screen recorder especially for the trial, where there will be much longer days and will go on for weeks and not depend on me and the media to get them for you. There’s no way I will be able to afford the time to capture all of that.

I’m sure the treehouse will have a hearing thread where folks will be commenting as the hearing occurs as they have done in the past but I don’t like to assume such things but be sure to check for that as well. I think the TalkLeft GZ forum does the same thing and perhaps even the RT forum so be sure to check them out as well(links on the blog/vlog roll in the front page).

1b. Sanctions Saga(W8 Depo)
O’Mara set the depositions up with W8, Sybrina, Tracy etc. which he intended to video tape. On the day of the first depo Bernie objected to the videotaping and wanted the judge to decide thereby wasting hours of the defenses time. O’Mara is asking the court to make the State pay him for the time that was wasted because Bernie was informed on the taping days beforehand and made no objection.

1c. Sanctions Saga(W8 Lie)
W8 lied about going to the hospital and supposedly told the state she lied back in August 2012. The State never bothered to inform the defense of the lie. And instead let the defense waste its and the courts time when the defense filed a motion on March 1 2013 to get the hospital records to be heard on March 5 2013. In the middle of court it is revealed to the court and public that W8 lied. O’Mara is asking the judge to fine Bernie.

1d. Personal Information Release
In a motion, previously filed by O’Mara, O’Mara had missed redacting the contact address and phone number information of George and Trayvon. Bernie is asking the court seal that document now that it is in the courthouse without the redaction.

Just some thoughts on the address and numbers. Those are merely contact addresses and phone numbers that were long ago part of the SPD investigation. Even though it states the address and number are of “Trayvon Martin” that should not be taken as that was his address at the time nor his phone number. It is not Trayvon’s phone number. Trayvon was also not living at that address at the time.

1e. Phone Stuff
O’Mara is asking the court to demand the State turn over anything and everything it has regarding any and all phone numbers of George, Shellie and Trayvon.

1g. The Stand Your Ground/Immunity/Self Defense CHAPTER 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE statues Hearing to Merge or Not to Merge Saga
This issue which no one seems to quite understand, merging a SYG hearing within a trial, has reared its ugly head again. Bernie is asking the court to compel O’Mara to explain himself as to why he is not having the hearing despite making claims to the contrary and agreeing to setting a date aside for it. But more importantly Bernie says if O’Mara aint doing it before trial then he aint never doing it, lol, and is against any “merger”, whatever the hell that is.

There’s a couple of news articles out there about this which are kind of framing it as if Bernie is asking the court to compel George himself to answer, which he sort of is and/or Bernie wants to ask him himself out of some concern for George, pfft yeah right. It’s that he wants the Court to ask George to make sure he understands. George does not have to answer to this, clearly. Redundantly, as the court has already ordered it before this, Bernie does request George’s appearance at the next court date when this will be heard and some of the wording makes it seem like he wants to question George himself, which maybe they do but that is not clear in the motion. I doubt that Bernie is really concerned if George himself knows what’s going on so all of this gives the impression that he wants to question George himself but that just isn’t going to happen. I think the judge will just ask O’Mara with George sitting there, potted palm that he is lol j/k, and ask. She’ll deny that O’Mara can’t file for immunity when he wants, before, during or after trial. That is what I think Bernie really wants of this. Silly Bernie, tricks are for kids.

On October 29 2012 Judge ‘Bernie my little officer of the court who can do no wrong, nothing insurmountable here’ Nelson, ordered that witness lists, including expert witness, shall be exchanged on or before March 27 2013. On March 25 2013 O’Mara filed a list and a Motion asking the court for an extension on the date to exchange witness lists. That motion was to be heard at the hearing that was scheduled for April 2 2013. Without consulting the defense Nelson canceled the hearing. On April 17 O’Mara filed a second list. On April 26 O’Mara posted another motion asking the court for an extension. In that motion O’Mara lists six witnesses;

GZW GGG
GZW HHH
GZW III
GZW JJJ
GZW 60

O’Mara’s last list only went to GZWAAA and GZW42 so clearly the list is much larger then thought and apparently O’Mara will be adding more. Given what we have here then the list goes to at least GZWJJJ which adds 9 people bringing the number to 276. It is still not know what number system he is using and if that corresponds to the State’s number system. In O’Mara’s numbers there are gaps so who knows what’s going on. There are also no experts listed or any other public official outside the SPD that hasn’t already been named by the State. Regardless, I’m guessing the entire list of all witnesses combined will be over 300.

166 thoughts on “George Zimmerman Case – April 30, 2013 Hearing”

Great summation. The most important thing now is the writ in front of the 5th DCA. If this gets to trial here is the way it will go.
State: I object.
TCJ: Sustained
Defense: I object.
TCJ: Overuled.
And onandonandon.
A TCJ can do anything they wanna do. Regardless.

Great summary, DMan. However, I don’t see how they could possibly get through all of this in 2 hours, assuming she will allow any arguments from the defense. If she has already made up her mind, then why even bother. Just send a list of her decisions to concerned parties. No explanation even needed.

My questions:

Will she give George a reason for canceling the last hearing?

Anyone think Nelson will actually ask George any questions whatsoever about the trial and/or merging immunity?

How bold and aggressive will Bernie, the bird man, be this time around?

Will the writ before the DCA even be mentioned during the hearing?

I am one of the optimists here so I want to believe things will go better for George this time than in the past. I do believe that Nelson has a lot to lose if she truly does aspire to be on the Supreme Court, which I have read in the past. She was fourth in one of the previous appointments but that was during Charlie Crist’s days.

I am sure that Charlie made at least one appointment but maybe it was to replace a sitting judge. I recall reading that Nelson was fourth on the list. It was in the Tampa Bay Times. Sorry, I cannot find the link but I think I posted it at CTH a while back.

Nelson has no obligation to explain the cancelation of the April 2nd hearing, so she won’t offer one. None of the lawyers will ask for an explanation either.

I don’t think Nelson will ask George anything. The state is full of crap as to Zimmerman giving up a right to move for immunity, and I think Nelson will simply make the point that defendant can move for immunity at any time. Conducting a trial does not erase immunity.

Bernie will be subdued, but idiotic as usual. Don’t expect any coherent arguments, or even coherent sentences from Baldie.

The issue of Crump being deposed is not before the trial court. O’Mara may ask for a continuence, and refer to that pending decision as a reason to delay start of the trial.

I wonder if the state will disclose that it has any of the following evidence, that it has not yet made available to the defense: enhanced 911 call recording, Martin phone records or phone data, Witness 8 phone records or phone data, and/or Zimmerman phone recordings.

At least three hours. O’Mara, West, and Bernardo all love to hear themselves talk, and Nelson is paid to sit and listen.

I have asked similar questions many times in the past. How is possible that the state does not have these items? It’s not so how on earth has the State being able to legally withhold this information for over a year now?

It’s not illegal for the state to withhold evidence, or at least not “illegal” like there is a penalty or anything. There is no remedy to defendant, just as there is no remedy to defendant for being arrested, incarcerated, and put to trial, even though he/she is immune from that on account of the use of force being justified. The worst that happens to the state is losing the case; and even that is rare. The most common judicial repair is to allow defendant to enjoy the ordeal of another trail.

Yeah. A Brady violation, which is failure to turn over exculpatory evidence, is remedied with a new trial. But, the state has to be caught in order for there to be a violation. There are plenty of cases where the state deliberately withheld exculpatory evidence. Cases of Brady Violations and Prosecutorial Misconduct. The worst that happens to the state is that it forfeits the case.

State loses the case, defendant sues for damages. If the conduct of the prosecutor is really bad, the state pays defendant damages. Nifong being disbarred is an example of an extremely rare remedy. Keep in mind, even a retrial based on withholding of exculpatory evidence depends on the state being caught. The personal risk to a prosecutor is negligible – they have absolute personal immunity.

All immunities have some rational justification, and some method to repair damage. Judges have immunity, but they can be impeached and removed, for example; and their decisions are subject to review and reversal. Like any other tool, in the wrong hands, it becomes a hazard.

1g. An affirmative defense shifts the burden of proof to the defendant. If there is no proof of a crime why mount it? It was supposed to avoid all the PC BS that has already occurred. I think. So far all I can see proof of is a homicide.

You must be reading about another case , it is not illegal to follow someone . Next it is not illegal to talk to anyone . IT IS ILLEGAL TO PUNCH SOMEONE and in Florida that will get you shot . It is legal to shot anyone who hits you or takes aswing at you . Think about this the state Star witness said she heard Trayvon voice first ask george why our you following me , That make trayvon the person who started this , if his parnets would have taught him manners he would be alive today.

On the unsealing of the confidential settlement agreement, Nelson will hear argument, but no decision tomorrow. She has 30 days under the rules, which, in Florida, means she has until after thr trial or whenever she feels like it, to render a decision. She has no desire to make it public.

Will she admonish Crump for failing to notify the HOA insurer? Nope. Nobody asked her to, and it’s not her job to apply the rules sua sponte.

a) The Crump Settlement Filing Saga – Granted (all the case law is on MOM/West’s side, and we know how Nelson always follows the law 😉 )

b) Sanctions Saga (W8 Depo) – Denied (Nelson: “Does nothing satisfy you people? I already ruled in your favor against Bernie in allowing the videotaping. You want me to make him give you $$$ too? Nah.”)

c) Sanctions Saga (W8 Lie) – Neither denied/granted. (She’ll say she agrees with MOM that Bernie’s response was bad and so should be stricken. And so to be fair she’s gonna strike the whole thing, and pretend it never happened. (I’m only halfway joking.))

e) Phone stuff – Granted (I think she has run out of excuses in her helping the State give the Defense the runaround.)

f) “Enhanced” W11 911 Call, lolz – Granted (But she’ll say something nasty to MOM for the “sarcasm” implied in the motion. Then again, before that Bernie may get up and admit that Crump was lying?)

g) The Stand Your Ground/Immunity/Self Defense CHAPTER 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE statues Hearing to Merge or Not to Merge Saga – Denied (The most she might do is say to MOM something like, “I assume you have kept your client up-to-date and informed on all the strategies you are using, including issues surrounding immunity?”)

h) Witness List Saga – Granted.

And implied in that last one, is Nelson’s awareness that, despite her idiotic “nothing insurmountable” comment, that there’s still a lot left to be done. Unless he’s gonna ask for a separate hearing just for the purpose, I think tomorrow MOM will formally ask for a continuance.

Think about this one Jordan. She wants to sit on the SC, and I have heard that as well but, she was booted off the Criminal trial court, where one must have some additional certifications, and she was sent down to the lowly divorce court. Isn’t this her last Criminal case?

Don’t get me wrong. Any time I suggest that this judge may do something right, I’m NOT giving her any benefit of the doubt. It’s become pretty obvious she’s got no ethics (and I’m wondering about her morals, too). So if she DOES rule the right way on occasion, it’s for other reasons. Right now, it could be because of the DCA looking over her shoulder.

If it can be PROVEN that a prosecutor withheld evidence not out of incompetence or something, but rather with malice in an attempt to convict a person they knew was innocent, then that prosecutor could be punished for that. I don’t know if every state has criminal sanctions available, but I know there are federal laws… civil rights laws that cover people acting “under color of the law” (I think that’s the term.) Plus of course there are standards all lawyers (incl. prosecutors) are supposed to work under, or they can be punished by the Bar, up to and including being disbarred. But of course the fact that there are laws and rules that ALLOW for prosecutors to be seriously punished is not the same thing as finding someone brave/ethical enough to actually go after that criminal prosecutor. So no, at least in theory, a prosecutor can NOT just do whatever he/she wants.

“they have absolute personal immunity” Umm… no they don’t. Not if the wrongdoing is deemed intentional. Even a prosecutor can be charged, including for perjury. And of course contempt of court (not that you’d ever get that from this judge). I know Nifong was only sentenced to one day, but he WAS sentenced. And that was just on contempt. I don’t know why he wasn’t charged federally, but there were some commentators saying he could have been.

lolz, well, I think she sets aside the whole day for every hearing unless the defense and State say they don’t need the whole day so I wouldn’t take that as them actually using an entire court day. 2 hours at best I say if she allows much argument.

I always have trouble finding the actual link to where the live feed would be. This is the closet I have today. I know last time they had the feed going a half hour early but forget which site had that. ugh. anyway:

Because it’s not the phone that Trayvon was carrying? Or because Tracy Martin or someone else deleted texts that were felt to be hurtful to the scheme? Was this phone always in the possession of the police and prosecution?

Well, not really, we learned the state did not give Crump a “cleaned up” version that Tracy listened to, she denied the defense that she would compel the state to inquire of Crump about it and any future version be provided to the defense but in essence the defense did not get what it wanted there. Of course we know Crump is lying though, what doesn’t he lie about, spin and manipulate.

In the post-hearing presser Crump addresses this by claiming that the “cleaned up recording reference” was made about the time when Mayor Triplett played the recording (3/16) for Tracy in his office, and that they had the ability to adjust the volume, and possibly had better equipment (better computer speakers?) then was available when Serino played the recording for Tracy on 2/28.

So Crump, in essence, is saying that he “misspoke” when he made the statement that “Tracy changed his opinion after listening to a cleaned up “recording”. Now it is simply that they had better equipment available, and could vary the volume (or tone controls.) Crump also added that when Tracy listened to the 911 recording on 2/28 he was distraught after recently (within 48 hrs) hearing that his son had died and that the police (apparently at that time) were not going to “do anything” about it.

Again, determining the substance of anything that Ben Crump has ever said is like trying to nail a stick of soft butter to a wall. Somehow, it always manages to slip through your fingers.

O’Mara is getting his way, not disclosing his (maybe TBD) strategy to the state. Nelson doesn’t want to argue the law in open court, so she’s taking it to the backroom. I think you’ve identified the issue, as between waiver of immunity (period) which the state claims happens if pretrial immunity hearing is waived; and O’Mara’s take on the law, that immunity is never lost until a judge renders a decision – and it is defendant’s prerogative to decide when to present the issue to a judge. O’Mara might never present the issue to criminal court, and save it for a civil judge.

Nelson shifted the burden to O’Mara, to propose redactions. O’Mara should just drop it. Bernie’s motion speaks for itself, and O’Mara’s motions do, as well.

I believe that Nelson will find no sanction against the state, as none of the omitted discovery is relevant (using “relevant” in Nelson’s terms, not in legal terms). She gravitates to relevance, and in her mind, relevance has a very narrow scope, tantamount to the incident itself, and not extending to witness credibility. IOW, the state can withhold witness credibility evidence, and that isn’t material to the case – but, if the state withheld, e.g., John’s testimony, that would be material.

Just to put specific material to this court action, the issue is learning of Witness 8’s lie about going to the hospital. Nelson will find that is not relevant or not material, therefore there is no discovery violation.

Looking forward to the videotape fiasco, she’ll find Bernardo did not act in bad faith, or, in the alternative, even if he did, that a several hour delay is not uncommon (could happen from being hung up in traffic), and it would be a bad precedent to assign sanctions for such a short delay.

Right, the Francine girl is who helped write the “letter” because it certainly required help as one can plainly see by the difficulty of the complex sentence structure and difficult to comprehend concepts. Damn, dd must be an outright idiot if she couldn’t put that together herself.

I’ll have to listen back to the hearing again, it was a bit muddled. I don’t see the significance here given that tower to the NW is so close why wouldn’t it be picking up Trayvons phone? Did he give a time along with it?

The hearing was non-specific, beyond the contention or suggestion that Martin’s phone was picked up on a cell tower that was not in the range of the path between 7-11 and RVC. IOW, pinging off the tower in that map showing closest tower to 7-11 is expected. It was a different tower that made “unexpected” contact.

I made a map of the TMobile towers in the Sanford area. The one labeled “3” is the closest one to the Retreat at Twin Lakes. It’s within a mile of the 7-Eleven. In the map, I’ve drawn a red box around the general area of the RTL and the 7-Eleven. If Trayvon was both north and west of the 7-Eleven “quite a ways” then that would suggest tower #1 on my map, which is a long way from the RTL (roughly 13 miles from Tower #3). Tower #2 is significantly closer (3.5 miles from Tower #3), but is actually south of the RTL, not north. If they’re talking about Tower #2, I don’t find it all that unusual that there might be some pings on that tower log for that phone. Phones often switch back and forth and not always based simply on which tower is closest. A range of a few miles is not that far. However, there would be no reason at all that the phone should have jumped to tower #1, unless he was in a car driving in that direction.

yeah, we know what happened. TM got the three stooges to buy him his cigar so he could make his blunt. Then he had 1/2 hour to get stoned as hell and somehow make it back to confront gz. No way did he go straight back home.

I’ve always had a nagging feeling TM had the blunts and purchased some K2, Spice, etc. – or any other name synthetic marijuana. Many communities have banned these substances recently, but last February it was easily available at gas stations and some convenience stores. Violent behavior has been noted as a possible effect of smoking these “fake” pot products. It was/is a big problem among teenagers in the Miami area, as well as other communities in Florida. I would like to know what stores were in the vicinity of where the pings registered. Unfortunately, not all these substances will show up in a tox test.

CCG- I remember seeing the name of the Tox lab that the TM samples were sent to back in early discovery. I think it was something like NLS Labs, or something like that. I had checked the wesite of the lab at the time, and that lab does in fact do testing for the newer designer drugs, bath salts, synthetic marijuana and other substances. There are additional charges for those tests, and they are very expensive. Seminole County has an ongoing contract with that lab, and likely only ordered the basic pot etc. tests. I don’t know if the defense would have had the money to have the additional tests done, but they could have been very revealing. Those labs retain any unused samples for a certain period of time in case any further testing is requested. I doubt the defense had the money to order further testing.

pinecone – I hope the defense considered the possibility of synthetic pot and spent the money to test for it. It’s only a hunch on my part, but in light of what we know, I don’t think it’s far- fetched.

Totally agree CCG. The fact that TM was seen on the 711 tape walking away with a blunt, and that blunt was no where to be found in the evidence collection, he did something with it. I doubt TM was into smoking cigars. Even I know what blunts are used for. The ping logs showing him a great distance from the path to and from indicates to me that he used that blunt between 711 and when he arrived back at RTL. When George called NEN to report a guy that was acting suspiciously, I would think that the defense would want to know if he was as high as a kite. When he acted so aggressively, I would think the defense would want to order those additional tests. Fact is, they may have and we just don’t know about it.

Do you know by any chance if regular pot shows up differently than synthetic pot? I would think so as they seem to be made of different chemicals and ingredients. I’m going to do a little research on that if you don’t know.

Serino was in charge of the medical examiner’s office, as the lead investigator, and would likely have had involvement in the order of what tests were to be done. Go back and look at the discovery reports where the medical examiner reports say that they answer to Serino.

I noticed the twitter feed for Pipitone on the left of the screen. There is one from ModarresLaw- “That’s not what atty Crump said, he said there was no SUBSTANTIVE conversation during the stopped segments.” I though Crump said there was no talking, and that he was just forming his next question in his mind during the stopped periods.

When I was laughing about the defense filing the motion for the “cleaned up” copy of the 911 recordings, I made the comment that Bernie would probably say something like- I don’t know anything about that, you have to ask him about that. My comment was something like that. Low and behold, today Bernie said in the courtroom- “Your honor, I am not Ben Crump, I wasn’t there, I wasn’t aware of it.” In the end it sounds like the judge didn’t give a crap about Crump lying yet again.

One day Fla. is going to really regret not only allowing, but enabling Crump the corrupt, lying, shyster so called attorney doing the major destruction he has done. Every time he wins another one, he gets even more bold. He will never be satisfied because enough is never enough for his type. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he was not the Fla. Gov. one day.

You got it! I just can’t believe all the mixing of civil and criminal law in this case. I think the cites in all the pre-trial motions are mostly to civil law cases. The civil system has been infected by PC for years. But wrangling about money is not the same as putting a citizen in prison. My concern is it is now bleeding in to criminal law. If the higher courts allow this to set precedent it will be a sad day I think. This looks like a crazy blend. Social Justus invading the criminal system. Just IMO.

Hearing today that West talked about DD saying that Sybrina was crying during the BDLR interview was important. The defense said earlier that DD said that Sybrina was sitting right next to her at the BDLR interview. Now today I’m reading that Natalie Jackson was there as well. It was good for West to hammer those facts home yet again. Shouldn’t that be considered to be witness intimidation? and BDLP who knew better allowed it.

I understand Bernie said that the state gave the defense everything they had. How will that square with DD saying that there were missing texts from the defense records. Is this the phone that was sent to Calif.? Were there other phones? Does the defense have DD’s phone records that can prove that she sent those texts, and what they are?

DD is looking more and more like a gift to the defense. I’m starting to think the defense should not move to have her impeached. If the state doesn’t call her as a witness, the defense certainly can. In the trial, her testimony will have to be close to what she told the defense under oath, and what was recorded. I can just imagine her saying that messages were missing from the records. I can also just hear her saying that she was seated next to Sybrina during her state deposition, and that Sybrina was crying, and that the Crump atty’s were also present.

In one of the articles I read, it appears that O’Mara has likely decided to allow the state to put on it’s case against GZ, and then he will ask for an immunity hearing when they are finished. I like that idea as they have no case, and cannot prove much of anything. When the state puts up their witnesses, the defense can cross and impeach many, including the audio experts talking about the screams. I believe they can introduce the fact that the FBI had determined that the screaming voice could not be determined.