topic Re: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanation in Freelancershttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564855#M343683
<P>Just looked at that and it's 100%.&nbsp; So, does that mean I need to stop freaking out about private feedback in this case?&nbsp; If I understood you correctly in your first response, it's more likely the ratio of completed contracts with no feedback given - is that correct?&nbsp; If so, can I still prompt some of the clients from whom I know I've had positive outcomes to provide me with feedback, or does UW throw up the force field on that one, too?</P>Mon, 18 Feb 2019 01:18:24 GMTbmhumphreys2019-02-18T01:18:24ZJob Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564843#M343674
<P>Hey fellow freelancers,<BR /><BR />I'm new to this forum and I'm only here because I can't get any kind of transparent answer from customer service despite multiple lengthy e-mail conversations.<BR /><BR />My situation is this:<BR />I started using UpWork back in May of last year and I had some great client and 100% JSS for a few months.&nbsp; Then I moved and went through some personal upheaval, and unfortunately, there was one client for whom I couldn't complete a contract and had to issue a refund, and there was another client during that time who had messaged me with a request for some work and I didn't get back to him for a month or so (like I said, personal upheaval - unprofessional, yes, but there it is).&nbsp; Those are the only two "negative outcomes" I know about with my work.&nbsp; I started working for clients again in November and have had a lot of successful milestones and contracts in that time.&nbsp; When I started, I expected my JSS to be low, because of those two negative incidents and the lack of any earnings for a couple of months.&nbsp; I think it was still in the 90's, though.&nbsp; I do know for a fact, however, that I had a JSS of either 94% or 96% (I can't remember which) in December after completing a lot of milestones and doing some great work.&nbsp; I continued doing just that, then in January, my JSS dropped to 89%.&nbsp; I contacted customer support, who gave me all of the "help center" articles and all of the accompanying vagaries, and after some lengthy e-mail discussion the first time, I was told that "<SPAN>With less negative outcomes, you can certainly increase your score as long as you keep on earnings positive feedback, In no time, you will see your score back to above 90% again."&nbsp;</SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN>Okay, so a couple of weeks go by, many more positive outcomes, and still no change in JSS.&nbsp; I submit another request.&nbsp; Customer service (again after lengthy e-mail conversations in which I have to pull teeth to get ANY specific information related to&nbsp;<EM>my</EM> JSS, and that CSR suggests the following:&nbsp;</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>Ask clients to close the job as soon as possible once the work on the project is done.</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>Ask clients to close jobs that have been open for several months, which will prompt them to leave feedback.</SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN>This prompted me to go back and end some old contracts with clients for whom I'm no longer working. That's it.&nbsp; That's the only thing that's changed since the last go-around of JSS calculations, other than completing a five-milestone contract with a five-star rating and glowing private reviews to me via UpWork's messaging&nbsp;service.&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN>So I checked my JSS today, and it dropped another 12% to 77.&nbsp; I can't even process this.&nbsp; I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, and NOBODY in customer service, despite repeated conversations, will give me any clue as to what is happening.<BR /><BR />Since customer service keeps their JSS calculations top-secret in true "good-ol'-boy" fashion, I'm wondering if anyone here on the forum has any insight for me.&nbsp; The only thing I can think of is that one of my clients had problems with my work that they couldn't or wouldn't tell me.&nbsp; If that's the case, shouldn't UpWork try to help me work through those issues rather than just give me a trashed reputation that makes it harder to get new clients?&nbsp; Even restaurants have the right to respond to their critics on Yelp and work to make the appropriate reparations.&nbsp; Why can't UpWork do the same?&nbsp;</SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN>Please help.&nbsp; I'm at the end of my rope here and I don't know what to do.</SPAN></P>Mon, 18 Feb 2019 00:29:08 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564843#M343674bmhumphreys2019-02-18T00:29:08ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564848#M343677
<P>You will never get anyone at UW, least of all CS, to comment specifically about your JSS. CS doesn't know. The JSS is something of a black box by design.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>There's no such thing as a "successful milestone" in the JSS calculation. Only completed contracts count. You&nbsp; have 12 completed contracts and four have no fb. That is probably hurting your score.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>We can never assume private fb matches public fb, and it's the private fb that counts. The best diagnostic is % of clients who would recommend you.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Mon, 18 Feb 2019 00:51:34 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564848#M343677gilbert-phyllis2019-02-18T00:51:34ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564851#M343679
Do you ever get to see that metric?<BR />Mon, 18 Feb 2019 00:57:58 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564851#M343679bmhumphreys2019-02-18T00:57:58ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564853#M343681
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Brandon H wrote:<BR />Do you ever get to see that metric?<BR /><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Which one? Clients who would recommend? That one is listed in your My Stats section. We only see our %, not the who's or why's (to protect clients from being mauled).&nbsp;</P>Mon, 18 Feb 2019 01:04:01 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564853#M343681gilbert-phyllis2019-02-18T01:04:01ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564854#M343682
<P>Also, I have to take issue with a couple of things - (not to you, personally, but with UpWork policy that you quoted).&nbsp;<BR /><BR />First: "<SPAN>The JSS is something of a black box by design."&nbsp; - I understand the need to keep people from doctoring their scores, but there HAS to be a better way than this.&nbsp; A number like that - especially when most of the good paying jobs on UpWork require a JSS of over 90% - should not be kept as some sort of secret calculation where the affectee has no information whatsoever on how to fix their business.<BR /><BR />Second: "and it's the private fb that counts."&nbsp; This is the whole crux of my problem.&nbsp; It's like you're in the middle of a battlefield and there are hits coming from somewhere, but you have no idea where, or which direction to even move to take cover.&nbsp; I should at least get a notification that there was negative private feedback- even if they don't disclose what the actual feedback was - don't you think?&nbsp; &nbsp;Or am I freaking out for no reason here?&nbsp; I just can't wrap my head around being told in PM by clients things like "Brandon,...I have NEVER had the pleasure of not editing a blog we have received. I think I made one small grammatical change." or "Super great piece with tons of value!"<BR />or "THANK YOU!<BR />Would you pitch me another topic you'd like to work on so I can schedule the next piece with you, please? Thanks in advance!"&nbsp; over and over again, and then just having to sit by helplessly as my JSS drops lower and lower and nobody new will hire me.&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR /><BR /><BR /></SPAN></P><P><SPAN>I just wish I knew how to fix this.&nbsp; Thanks for your help, anyway, Phyllis.</SPAN></P>Mon, 18 Feb 2019 01:14:27 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564854#M343682bmhumphreys2019-02-18T01:14:27ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564855#M343683
<P>Just looked at that and it's 100%.&nbsp; So, does that mean I need to stop freaking out about private feedback in this case?&nbsp; If I understood you correctly in your first response, it's more likely the ratio of completed contracts with no feedback given - is that correct?&nbsp; If so, can I still prompt some of the clients from whom I know I've had positive outcomes to provide me with feedback, or does UW throw up the force field on that one, too?</P>Mon, 18 Feb 2019 01:18:24 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564855#M343683bmhumphreys2019-02-18T01:18:24ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564856#M343684
<P>I was just looking at my contracts and I only see that two of the completed contracts have no feedback given.&nbsp; So does that still make sense?&nbsp; I'm sorry to be so bothersome, but my reputation is really important to me and I hate feeling like I have no control over it.</P>Mon, 18 Feb 2019 01:30:43 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564856#M343684bmhumphreys2019-02-18T01:30:43ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564857#M343685
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Brandon H wrote:<BR /><P>Just looked at that and it's 100%.&nbsp; So, does that mean I need to stop freaking out about private feedback in this case?&nbsp; If I understood you correctly in your first response, it's more likely the ratio of completed contracts with no feedback given - is that correct?&nbsp; If so, can I still prompt some of the clients from whom I know I've had positive outcomes to provide me with feedback, or does UW throw up the force field on that one, too?</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Congrats on that 100%! I think the problem must be the no-fb contracts--4 out of 12 is a substantial proportion. Some here would never dream of uttering the word 'feedback' to a client under any circs. But that doesn't make room for inexperienced UW clients who have no clue that neglecting to leave fb can harm a FL. At the same time, it's difficult to mention it at all without sounding like one is fishing for a perfect score. You just have to use your own judgment.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>BTW--you may already know this but just in case--you always want a client to close a contract, if possible. They are required to leave fb as part of the process, then you are notified the contract has been closed and invited to leave your own fb. If you close the contract, then you are required to leave fb and the client is notified and invited to leave fb. They may or may not bother, or get around to doing it.&nbsp;</P>Mon, 18 Feb 2019 01:33:12 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564857#M343685gilbert-phyllis2019-02-18T01:33:12ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564861#M343688
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Brandon H wrote:<BR /><P>I was just looking at my contracts and I only see that two of the completed contracts have no feedback given.&nbsp; So does that still make sense?&nbsp; I'm sorry to be so bothersome, but my reputation is really important to me and I hate feeling like I have no control over it.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>When I view your profile, I see four with no feedback (including one that promised "5 star feedback" in the job title).</P>Mon, 18 Feb 2019 01:38:22 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564861#M343688gilbert-phyllis2019-02-18T01:38:22ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564863#M343689
<P>I know it's frustrating. The JSS is a tool for clients, not for FLs. It's designed to give clients a starting point for sifting through the zillions of FLs here. When it comes to FLs figuring out how to improve outcomes, we are on our own. In a way, the JSS is better than nothing because it at least gives us a clue that someone might have been unhappy. Just like out in the non-UW world, it's up to us to review and reflect, and find ways to avoid repeating less-than-stellar outcomes.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>There's continual debate about the importance of one's JSS when it comes to landing desirable contracts from quality clients. I expect it varies from one discipline to another, and also depending on which stratum of expertise and experience one is swimming in. In any case, the minimum JSS requirement you see on job postings is one of many boxes clients are required to choose among, and many either don't know what to choose or don't care. When I have on my client hat, I'm ambivalent about it, and usually make more than one pass searching, adjusting rate and JSS thresholds, to get a feel for who's out there. Any client who's also a FL knows full well that a fabulous FL can have a JSS below 90% at any particular time.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>IMO the main reason to keep a high JSS is to get and keep the Top Rated badge, which enables you to have crummy fb removed if a job goes sideways on you. (You can use it every 10 contracts/every three months--I think--so you want to hoard it for when you really need it.) That just requires 90% or higher for 13 of the previous 16 weeks, so don't get caught up in the drama of a sub-100% score. I know you're below 90 now, but you still have relatively few contracts, so each new one that closes will weigh enough to help you climb back up without too much trouble.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>The JSS is imperfect but it is what it is. Kind of like the weather. We can't control it but we can learn to predict it within a certain margin of error, and shelter ourselves from the worst of it.</P>Mon, 18 Feb 2019 01:54:55 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564863#M343689gilbert-phyllis2019-02-18T01:54:55ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564869#M343692
<P>Hi Brandon,&nbsp;</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P><SPAN style="font-weight: 400;">I'm sorry to learn about the dip in your Job Success Score. While you have jobs with no feedback, I know you get yourself back on track, as the feedback in your Work History is stellar. </SPAN></P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P><SPAN style="font-weight: 400;">Please know that your Job Success score is updated every two weeks, and it’s important to note any movement in this score (either up or down) reflects both recent activity and activity over a longer period of time. Because we look at trends over a 24-month period, you can see your score change, even without recently closed contracts, due to past jobs slipping out of the 24-month window, or there are not enough jobs in your 6-, 12-, 24-month window to calculate your Job Success Score from. You may read <A href="https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/115006097327" target="_self">this help article</A> for more information about why your Job Success Score may have changed.&nbsp;</SPAN></P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P class="p1">Private feedback is an additional way for users to share their experience working with each other on a contract honestly and without any external pressure. Unfortunately, the rating system we had previously that was based solely on public feedback could easily be manipulated and this is something we are able to avoid with Job Success score. You can refer to&nbsp;<A href="https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/What-exactly-is-private-feedback/td-p/78349/page/3" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><SPAN class="s1">earlier discussions of private feedback</SPAN></A>&nbsp;in the Community.</P>
<P class="p1">&nbsp;</P>
<P class="p1"><SPAN style="font-weight: 400;">As an additional tip, on your Work History, you may click on a job that has been closed, to see which of the criteria were scored accordingly.&nbsp;</SPAN></P>
<P class="p1">&nbsp;</P>
<P class="p1"><SPAN style="font-weight: 400;"><span class="lia-inline-image-display-wrapper lia-image-align-inline" image-alt="Feedback.png" style="width: 999px;"><img src="https://community.upwork.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/16289i7F080182E6BF718D/image-size/large?v=1.0&amp;px=999" title="Feedback.png" alt="Feedback.png" /></span></SPAN></P>Mon, 18 Feb 2019 02:19:58 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564869#M343692aocumen2019-02-18T02:19:58ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564870#M343693
<P>Thanks for your help.&nbsp; Sounds like a response I've received several times from CS, but I see that you're a mod, so that's okay.&nbsp; I guess I'm freaking out over nothing, but when I see that JSS continue to drop cycle after cycle (three times now) despite doing what everyone is telling me is stellar work - big time alarm bells start going off in my head.&nbsp; In any case, the community forum has been infinitely more helpful than CS for me on this issue, so thanks again for that.</P>Mon, 18 Feb 2019 02:31:32 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564870#M343693bmhumphreys2019-02-18T02:31:32ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564871#M343694
<P>Phyllis, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to talk me through this.&nbsp; It was much more helpful than anything CS has done for me on this issue.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Brandon</P>Mon, 18 Feb 2019 02:33:23 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564871#M343694bmhumphreys2019-02-18T02:33:23ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564987#M343763
<P>30% of your contracts have no feedback. That may have tipped you into the 'excessive number' range for no-feedback contracts. You also indicated that you issued a refund. So that's a no-payment contract which definitely brings your score down. What is&nbsp;your "clients who would recommend" score? The list of what is included in one's JSS score includes all these factors.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>What could CS do to be more clear? Refunding, excessive no feedback--these <EM>will</EM> drop your score.&nbsp;</P>Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:37:54 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/564987#M343763tlbp2019-02-18T09:37:54ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/565017#M343783
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Brandon H wrote:<BR /><P>Just looked at that and it's 100%. (the "private feedback percentage)</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That means little because it is not updated as frequently as the JSS, certainly not after every job.&nbsp; So it is possible that there was poor private feedback which is not reflected yet.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>If mine dropped I'd look at one of those factors:</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>What happened during the last 2 weeks?</P><P>This could be:</P><UL><LI>contracts ending</LI><LI>a contract reaching or exceeding the 2-3 month line without anything ever having been paid</LI><LI>contracts that fell out of the 6 or 12 month window, so affecting the proportion of outcomes within the calculation window</LI><LI>contracts that closed without earnings (or were fully (!) refunded)</LI></UL><P>Your biggest problem is your choice of clients.</P><P>When you work with the $ 5 for 500 crowd you work with the bottom-of-the barrel types, likely the farmers and wannabes.</P><P>They will never value you or treat you with a lot of respect, just as people don't look after their plastic disposable cups the way they look after their crystal champagne glasses.</P><P>It is (unfortunately) human nature.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>And clients who are so cheap with money will also be cheap with their feedback.</P><P>Get out of the gutter, nothing good can be found there.</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Mon, 18 Feb 2019 10:54:42 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/565017#M343783petra_r2019-02-18T10:54:42ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/565340#M343970
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Petra R wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Brandon H wrote:<BR /><P>Just looked at that and it's 100%. (the "private feedback percentage</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>...Your biggest problem is your choice of clients.</P><P>When you work with the $ 5 for 500 crowd you work with the bottom-of-the barrel types, likely the farmers and wannabes.</P><P>They will never value you or treat you with a lot of respect, just as people don't look after their plastic disposable cups the way they look after their crystal champagne glasses.</P><P>It is (unfortunately) human nature.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>And clients who are so cheap with money will also be cheap with their feedback.</P><P>Get out of the gutter, nothing good can be found there.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>A couple of things: First, thanks for taking the time to reply and help out.&nbsp; As for your suggestion about looking at what happened during the last couple of weeks, I'm pretty sure it's because I closed a couple of those "gutter" clients contracts myself last week.&nbsp; Beyond that, all of my work for the last two months (which was when I started being active here again) has been stellar.&nbsp; There may have been some old contracts that have fallen out of the six-month window recently, too.&nbsp; I didn't realize how much that kind of thing will affect your score - which is a whole other bag of worms and a futile soapbox for me to climb onto regarding JSS calculations.&nbsp; So, as far as I'm concerned, I am persuaded that it was the confluence of those things, and the current contracts I have that have taken a while with no milestones or payments that are the culprits.&nbsp;<BR /><BR />Second, and I'm being as earnest as possible here, how do I "get out of the gutter?"&nbsp; The last couple of clients for whom I completed contracts were much higher paying than the "$5 for 500 words" crowd, and I have tried to stay away from those types of clients ever since.&nbsp; That said, I have yet to successfully land an hourly contract or anything that pays me more than about $.035 per word.&nbsp; Any recommendations on how to attract better fish, if you'll excuse the metaphor?</P>Tue, 19 Feb 2019 06:58:52 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/565340#M343970bmhumphreys2019-02-19T06:58:52ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/565364#M343977
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Brandon H wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Petra R wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Brandon H wrote:<BR /><P>Just looked at that and it's 100%. (the "private feedback percentage</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>...Your biggest problem is your choice of clients.</P><P>When you work with the $ 5 for 500 crowd you work with the bottom-of-the barrel types, likely the farmers and wannabes.</P><P>They will never value you or treat you with a lot of respect, just as people don't look after their plastic disposable cups the way they look after their crystal champagne glasses.</P><P>It is (unfortunately) human nature.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>And clients who are so cheap with money will also be cheap with their feedback.</P><P>Get out of the gutter, nothing good can be found there.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>A couple of things: First, thanks for taking the time to reply and help out.&nbsp; As for your suggestion about looking at what happened during the last couple of weeks, I'm pretty sure it's because I closed a couple of those "gutter" clients contracts myself last week.&nbsp; Beyond that, all of my work for the last two months (which was when I started being active here again) has been stellar.&nbsp; There may have been some old contracts that have fallen out of the six-month window recently, too.&nbsp; I didn't realize how much that kind of thing will affect your score - which is a whole other bag of worms and a futile soapbox for me to climb onto regarding JSS calculations.&nbsp; So, as far as I'm concerned, I am persuaded that it was the confluence of those things, and the current contracts I have that have taken a while with no milestones or payments that are the culprits.&nbsp;<BR /><BR />Second, and I'm being as earnest as possible here, how do I "get out of the gutter?"&nbsp; The last couple of clients for whom I completed contracts were much higher paying than the "$5 for 500 words" crowd, and I have tried to stay away from those types of clients ever since.&nbsp; That said, I have yet to successfully land an hourly contract or anything that pays me more than about $.035 per word.&nbsp; Any recommendations on how to attract better fish, if you'll excuse the metaphor?</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I provide prospective clients with links to articles that were ghostwritten by me (but are not subject to a non-disclosure agreement), work that carries my byline and articles that I have published via Medium, my blog or elsewhere. This allows them to quickly assess my qualifications.<BR /><BR />But, you have to have the qualifications. I don't know what your research and writing skill level is and neither will clients unless you <EM>show</EM> them.&nbsp;<BR /><BR />Until you have a strong body of work that you can display on your Upwork profile and share in a proposal attachment, invest your spare time in creating the kind of content you wish to get hired to create.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>TL;DR Prove your content marketing chops by doing content marketing.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Tue, 19 Feb 2019 08:47:53 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/565364#M343977tlbp2019-02-19T08:47:53ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/567575#M345150
<P>Hi Tonya,</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Tonya P wrote:<BR /><P>...What could CS do to be more clear? Refunding, excessive no feedback--these <EM>will</EM> drop your score.&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR />I'm sorry it took me a little while to respond to your questions.&nbsp; I would like to thank you, as I have all of the others who took time to respond, for your willingness to help me.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I really wanted to give it some thought before I answered because if there happen to be any CSRs reading these threads (I haven't been on here nearly long enough to know about that yet), I want them (and hopefully their managers) to see things from my user experience, and because I think you (and they) deserve a well-thought-out, honest response to a very good question.&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR /><BR />First, I've already outlined previous posts that my initial state of panic because, as far as I knew, I'd been doing work that has satisfied my clients very much in the last couple of months, and to see my score drop that dramatically was pretty upsetting.&nbsp; My brain, being what it is, immediately jumped to "What did I do wrong?" and "What are people saying about me behind my back?" (As an aside - I went on a whole diatribe about private feedback earlier in this thread, but, for the record, now that I understand it's pretty much just the "would recommend" percentage - not some "trash the freelancer" form that clients get to fill out and claim all kinds of misinterpretable nonsense - I'm okay with it.&nbsp; I think it's actually a great idea as is - provided the "trash the freelancer feature" never shows up, of course)</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Now, of course, my personal anxiety issues are not CS's fault, but there is a certain sense of powerlessness that comes with the type of generalized responses to which I'm referring, and a sense of powerlessness is never good for one's anxiety - and an anxious customer is probably not a satisfied one.<BR /><BR />So let's talk about CS's responses.&nbsp; We've already hashed through the reasons why the "exact calculations" (or "Colonel's Secret Recipie" as I've come to think of it) can't be given out - some A#$H*^s&nbsp; would figure out a way to create a bot to artificially manipulate their JSS.&nbsp; Okay.&nbsp; Fine.&nbsp; I buy into that reasoning.&nbsp; Here's where I really had a problem.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Getting a response in which essentially the only thing the CSR does is repeat the policy listed on the FAQs (which I'd already read when I had to take my UpWork readiness test to even have the privilege...) and then point me to "some other helpful articles" when I asked a very specific question about my particular account activity is, to me, just as infuriating as getting a form response from a congressperson when you reach out for genuine help on an issue.&nbsp; It accomplishes nothing more than to waste my time instead of the CSR's or the congressperson's time, and the last time I checked, <EM>they</EM> were the ones in the service roles of this relationship, not me.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>In my opinion - having worked for nearly a decade as a CSR myself before finishing my education and switching careers - my situation should have been handled (in a very short and paraphrased way) like this:<BR /><BR /><FONT color="#00FF00">Me: Hey CS, why did my score drop? I've read all of the FAQs and articles but I still don't understand what it is about my specific account that caused such a drastic change.&nbsp; I thought I'd been doing great work.</FONT><BR /><BR /><FONT color="#00FF00">CS.&nbsp; Your JSS is calculated over a long period of time - even though, looking at your account, you haven't been on </FONT>UpWork<FONT color="#00FF00">&nbsp;for a year yet, so time may not be as big a factor as we think.&nbsp; Also, you don't have any long term clients, so that may not be helping much.&nbsp; One thing I do notice, however, is that you have two contracts open which haven't had any payment or activity in over two months.&nbsp; I can't say for sure, due to UpWork's policy regarding revealing JSS calculations, but I'd be willing to be that's the culprit.&nbsp; If you can finish those jobs as soon as possible, and get great feedback on them, you should see your JSS improve in no time.</FONT><BR /><BR />Okay - so what was different about what I just typed than what I got from CS - aside from the brevity and over-simplification?&nbsp; &nbsp;The responses I received from CS, rather than addressing anything about my specific account activity, pretty much just gave me a rundown of possible problems (essentially enumerating the bullet points of the FAQs and help topic articles), and left me to do the <STRIKE>research</STRIKE>&nbsp; guesswork myself (at first, that is.&nbsp; They finally *sort of* did some research and analysis on their own by the end).&nbsp; When I was a CSR, it was typically my experience that if I just took a few extra moments to&nbsp;<EM>listen</EM> to the caller and or&nbsp;<EM>carefully</EM> read the e-mail, I could usually identify the source of the problem pretty quickly and offer a personalized solution without all of the red tape, stock copy-and-paste responses, and other time-wasting nonsense.&nbsp;<BR /><BR />What happened in this case, on each occasion that I contacted CS, was that I got an automated response first with links to help articles.&nbsp; Then, I had to reply to those automated e-mails, explain to the CSR that I'd already read the specifics and that I wanted to know what was specifically going on with my account (something I'd already done in the original request for help).&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Now, had the CSR responded as I did in the example I provided above, it doesn't seem to me that she/he would have violated any UW policies on disclosing calculation methodology - the CSR would have simply pointed me in one very specific direction to solve my problem rather than pointing me down seventeen general directions to try.&nbsp; That's what CS could have done better.&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR /><BR />Further discussion on your comment:<BR />If I understand your argument correctly - and please forgive me if I'm over-simplifying - you're saying&nbsp; <EM>They already told you some things that will drop your score, and if you'd look at your account you'd see that some of those things are there.&nbsp; What more could they have done?&nbsp;</EM></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Before I give the TL/DR response (provided at the end), I have to point out a couple of things that pertain to my particular case (since we're using my stats as examples here).&nbsp; The first is, you asked, "<SPAN>What is&nbsp;your "clients who would recommend" score?"&nbsp; F<FONT color="#000000">or clarification purposes,&nbsp;</FONT><FONT color="#000000">I replied to an earlier post that it is at 100%.&nbsp; The second, and this may point out a flaw in your premise, is that UpWork's own definition of the time table for JSS and how it affects the score eliminates a lot of those potential reasons in my case.&nbsp; Per the UpWork Help Center:&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>"When is My Job Success Score Calculated?</P><P>The Upwork system takes snapshots of your six-, 12- and 24-month history in the marketplace and calculates a score for each. <FONT color="#FF0000">The<SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN><EM>best</EM><SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN>score out of these moving time windows is displayed on your profile and updated about every two weeks.<FONT color="#000000">"</FONT></FONT></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Here's where I think your premise may have been a little off.&nbsp; You said "<SPAN>You also indicated that you issued a refund. So that's a no-payment contract which definitely brings your score down."&nbsp;<FONT color="#000000"> The refund situation happened about three months prior to me starting to work again in November.&nbsp; I knew that it was going to bring my score down when it happened, and during the couple of months I took off, I didn't check it.&nbsp; When I finally did check it again, a couple of months later, it was at 89% ( I think) and I was actually surprised that it was not lower (I felt terrible about having to give the refund and not being able to finish the work), but there it was - 89% - and I resolved to get it back up above 90% asap.&nbsp; </FONT></SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN><FONT color="#000000">In the meantime, I had landed a couple of great contracts for which I was doing work I was really proud of, and the next time I checked my score, I was back above 90% (I don't remember for sure, but I want to say it was at a 94%) - this was all while I was in the midst of completing milestones for higher pay rates than ever and reading delighted comments from clients.&nbsp; Then, the first drop (back to 89%,) happened in January (seven months after I'd started doing work on UW)&nbsp; then the next one two weeks later to 77%.&nbsp; So from my perspective - being on the customer end while I was trying to figure this all out - the refund didn't factor in much, or even at all, because between the time the refund was given and the time I started checking my JSS again, several of the 2-week calculation windows had passed, and I was sitting pretty near the 90% when I started checking again.&nbsp; The only conclusion I was left with was that something had happened in the last six weeks or so that was&nbsp;<STRONG>radically</STRONG> dropping my JSS, and I had no power to figure out what exactly it was.<BR /><BR />Getting back to my point here, the types of responses I get from CS - and, sorry Avery O, even though I know you're a mod and not a CSR (BTW, I hope you at least get something from UW for the hard work you do), I'm going to quote you as an example because your response was so similar - such as,&nbsp; "Please know that your Job Success score is updated every two weeks, and it’s important to note any movement in this score (either up or down) reflects both recent activity and activity over a longer period of time. Because we look at trends over a 24-month period, you can see your score change, even without recently closed contracts, due to past jobs slipping out of the 24-month window, or there are not enough jobs in your 6-, 12-, 24-month window to calculate your Job Success Score from."&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR /><BR />Now, prior to this, Avery (and her CS counterparts) also wrote things like "I know you get yourself back on track, as the feedback in your Work History is stellar." (Thanks, Avery!)</FONT></SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN><FONT color="#000000">So here's the crux: Avery (and her CS counterparts) have obviously looked at my provile - at least glanced at it.&nbsp; How hard would it be to say (quoting from my role-play example earlier) <FONT color="#00FF00">"One thing I do notice, is that you have two contracts open which haven't had any payment or activity in over two months.&nbsp; I can't say for sure, due to UpWork's policy regarding revealing JSS calculations, but I'd be willing to be that's the culprit.&nbsp; If you can finish those jobs as soon as possible, and get great feedback on them, you should see your JSS improve in no time."&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT><BR /><BR />Do you see the difference?&nbsp; In the real scenario - the people who are getting paid to provide me with answers are bombarding me with information and assuming that I have the time, patience, and competency to sift through all of that information, process it,&nbsp; and find my real answer.&nbsp; &nbsp;In the scenario I provided above, the CSR took a few extra moments and was competent and professional enough to give me just enough information to solve my problem without violating any company policy.&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN><FONT color="#000000">Before I continue, I do need to say that on nearly every other matter over which I've felt the need to contact CS, they do a STELLAR job of being responsive and answering all of my concerns, but for me, in this instance, they failed.&nbsp; Instead, it took the kind help of a community of people (thank you all) who aren't getting paid to help me understand the root of my problem, and the people who are being paid to help me were unable to do so satisfactorily - probbably because of restrictive UW policies.<BR /><BR />TL/DR: CS's policies made it more difficult on me - the customer - the one who's being served - by placing the burden of investigating my problem (i.e. sifting through myriad articles and variables myself) onto my shoulders, when, by rights, the burden of investigating and solving my problem should be with them.</FONT></SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Thanks again, Tonya, for your response.&nbsp; I appreciate the oportunity to discuss these things!</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Sun, 24 Feb 2019 13:07:01 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/567575#M345150bmhumphreys2019-02-24T13:07:01ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/567684#M345219
<P>"<SPAN>TL/DR: CS's policies made it more difficult on me - the customer - the one who's being served - by placing the burden of investigating my problem (i.e. sifting through myriad articles and variables myself) onto my shoulders, when, by rights, the burden of investigating and solving my problem should be with them."</SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN>Not in this lifetime (or any other) will I have the patience to read a post of that length and density. However, one of your final paragraphs caught my attention and I may have helpful feedback about that specific remark. In short, get it out of your head that you are the customer on this platform. We have access to "customer service" insofar as UW needs for us to function in order to make money. But the money comes from the clients and they are the customers. If there's a doubt in anyone's mind about that, allow me to share a recent experience that made things crystal clear.</SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN>A few weeks ago, I added a client account and made my first UW hire. Verified my payment method when asked, the FL was great, everything smooth as silk until UW tried to bill me for the first week's hours. The amount was nowhere near my typical monthly expenditures but my over-zealous credit card company thought it smelled like fraud and stopped it. Fortunately, I was at my desk and available to participate in a ludicrous series of automated and live phone interactions with Amex to sort it out. In the course of that, I also contacted UW directly. They answered on the first ring; listened to my query and put me directly on the phone with the person who could help. She clearly and concisely explained what happened and what I needed to do, and it was all resolved in a moment. She was knowledgeable, efficient, and nice. I've never had a CS experience like that as a FL, nor do I expect to (even though I've earned far more for the platform as a FL than I'm ever likely to spend as a client).</SPAN></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN>Anyway, the bottom line is that from UW's perspective, we are necessary assets to be maintained with as little investment as possible. As FLs we are free to manage our own expectations, which helps avoid wasting annoyance and instead, put it where it belongs with the spammers who are constantly ringing my phone.</SPAN></P>Sun, 24 Feb 2019 19:40:41 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/567684#M345219gilbert-phyllis2019-02-24T19:40:41ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/567778#M345288
<P>Thanks again, Phyllis.&nbsp; I know the post was long, and if you only read the TL/DR, then, unfortunately, some of the points I was making were lost.&nbsp; In reality, I don't blame CS for my situation much at all, just the policy regarding not letting them help us out more by telling us specifically what happened to make our JSS go up or down.<BR /><BR />One quote I do want to respond to, is</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>"<SPAN>In short, get it out of your head that you are the customer on this platform. We have access to "customer service" insofar as UW needs for us to function in order to make money. But the money comes from the clients and they are the customers."</SPAN>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I'm sorry, but that's where you and I are going to have to disagree.&nbsp; Yes, - as a freelancer, and even on the internet in general,&nbsp; I am a commodity that UW and other sites use, as are&nbsp;the clients, - and if UW was a social media site where the social contract is "we get to have all of your data but you get to use our site for free," then I would agree with you.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>But we also pay UpWork money in the form of fees which represent a significant portion of our earnings.&nbsp; As far as I'm concerned - if I'm handing over money to you for services when I have the option to either keep it or go somewhere else (even if those options are worse or more inconvenient than what you're offering) I'm your customer.&nbsp; Period.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>One other thing I wanted to mention is that I did finally decide to try UW as a client to see how things work from that side.&nbsp; One thing I've found so far in my research is this - from the UpWork&nbsp;help topic found <A href="https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/218375638-Client-Payment-Processing-Fees" target="_self">here</A>:&nbsp; "<SPAN>For example, if you [the client] make a payment of $1,000 [to the freelancer], Upwork will charge an additional $27.50 fee for processing the payment."</SPAN>&nbsp; In that example, UpWork has made $27.50 from the client and has then charged the freelancer an additional $100 (10%) and any withdrawal fees that may be associated with actually getting that money - and we haven't even talked about the money UW makes on interest from escrow accounts.&nbsp; So for that example contract - the client's portion of the total UW revenue of $127.50 for that transaction was 21.5% and the freelancer's portion of the money UW made was 78.5%.&nbsp; Now, how that scales when you look at total revenue earned from clients vs. total revenue earned from freelancers, I have no idea, but at least here on the small scale, your assumption that UW makes most of their money from clients seems wrong to me.&nbsp; I say that with all humility because I have only been on this platform for less than a year, but unless I'm missing something, the freelancers are just as much UW customers as the clients, and if that's&nbsp;<EM><STRONG>not</STRONG></EM> actually the case, then I may need to re-evaluate either this career path or my choice of agent.&nbsp; As I understand it, I am the talent, UpWork is my agent/broker, whose job it is - and whom I pay - to connect me with clients who need my services.&nbsp; That is what I pay them for, and that is what makes me their customer.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I know that my attitude toward CS (not necessarily here, but in general) is stern and unforgiving, but that's because I was trained in my early life to be a damned good CSR, and when I don't get the service I believe I'm paying for, then I tend to go nuclear.&nbsp; It's a character flaw, I guess.&nbsp; Still - if I'm paying you for something (including customer support as part of the bargain), then I'm your customer.</P>Mon, 25 Feb 2019 03:18:39 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/567778#M345288bmhumphreys2019-02-25T03:18:39ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/567782#M345292
<P>Hi Brandon,&nbsp;<BR /><BR />I understand where you are coming from, and appreciate the time that you put into to explain why this would have been resolved easily if we pointed you directly to the right information.&nbsp;Our teams are unable to specify which of your contracts, and/or, feedback affected your score (whether positively, or negatively) to prevent users from manipulating the current system, which we hope you understand.&nbsp;<BR /><BR /></P>
<P>As for closing contracts, we generally advise users to close contracts every two weeks, while completing new contracts to help avoid creating a pattern of contracts without feedback.&nbsp;</P>Mon, 25 Feb 2019 06:11:49 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/567782#M345292aocumen2019-02-25T06:11:49ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/567785#M345295
<P>Thanks again, Avery.&nbsp; &nbsp; Bottom line, I think UW could do much better than the current JSS system, and I hope that they're working on improving it.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>One major flaw I haven't even mentioned yet is the fact that it's entirely possible - in fact it happened to me - that someone with only three or four contracts completed successfully can have a 100% JSS, while someone with more experience - even more positive client outcomes - can have in the 80 or 90% range.&nbsp; What good would that do me as a client?&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>The JSS is presented as this incorruptible and easy way for the clients to see how successful a freelancer has been, right?&nbsp; &nbsp;Well, if I'm a client sifting through a lot of proposals and I decide to look at the JSS to help me weed out potential hires, then I could come across this scenario very easily:&nbsp; Jane S has a JSS of 100% and is listed as top rated (if I would investigate her profile, I would&nbsp; see that she has only had four clients, but she lists herself as an expert level FL and she says she's ultra-experienced in her cover letter.&nbsp; Then I look at Moe's proposal.&nbsp; Moe only has a JSS of 87%, and he's charging just a little more than Jane.&nbsp; He also says he's an expert, and his cover letter is filled with just as many well-placed tropes and cliches as Jane's.&nbsp; I hire Jane, because of all of the lore about how amazing and un-manipulatable the JSS is, but I find that she is not nearly experienced enough.&nbsp; I should have hired Moe, and if I would have interviewed them both,&nbsp;it would have been immediately apparent who the better choice was, but because I was using only the JSS metric (which I perceive - because of UW marketing -&nbsp;to be a more&nbsp;objective measure of someone's value as a potential employee than what they tell me in their proposal) I've made the wrong choice, and my outcome hasn't been as good as it could have been.&nbsp;<BR /><BR />Okay, I'm over my rant on this topic for now.&nbsp; I've spent the last 72 hours or so with very minimal sleep - in front of this computer - sending out proposal after proposal - spending lots of time customizing each one - because I was told in every sales training I ever attended that "it's a numbers game" or "it's like fishing."&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I like the fishing metaphor, so let's stick with it.&nbsp; UpWork is a lake that I have been told (and have seen) is stocked full of fish (clients), and I've decided to fish there.&nbsp; I'm using the right bait, I know the fish are there, I keep casting, but it seems now that my lure is snagged on the weeds at the bottom of Lake UpWork (the JSS).&nbsp; &nbsp; At some point, thought, if they ain't bitin', and if your hooks keep getting stuck, you gotta cut bait and try something else.&nbsp; &nbsp; On&nbsp;the other hand, maybe I'll get lucky and I'll find an expert to help me with my marketing strategy from the job I posted on the client side.&nbsp;Thanks again to you and the whole UW community for your help with this.</P>Mon, 25 Feb 2019 03:45:19 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/567785#M345295bmhumphreys2019-02-25T03:45:19ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/570453#M346729
<P>I have a problem with job sucess sccore. I have 100% job sccore but suddenly it's droping 21%, i did not get any bad response/Feedback. Can you help me and solve me from this issue?</P>Sun, 03 Mar 2019 17:36:14 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/570453#M346729abdur_s2019-03-03T17:36:14ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/570562#M346793
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Abdur R wrote:<BR /><P>I have a problem with job sucess sccore. I have 100% job sccore but suddenly it's droping 21%, i did not get any bad response/Feedback. Can you help me and solve me from this issue?</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>First: It looks like your JSS dropped from 100 to 81% - not 21%, so let's clear that up right off the bat.&nbsp; I looked at your profile and it looks like you have a solid work history, so let me give you the summary of what I learned about JSS from this discussion thread:<BR /><BR />1. CS will never help you with your specific JSS.&nbsp; They will only give you generalities, so there is no way to know for sure what actually caused your score to drop.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>2. Because of this, you're left to investigate your contracts yourself and see if any of them apply to the long list of things that "can" affect your JSS.<BR /><BR />3. In my situation, it was a couple of contracts I had open for longer than two months with no activity (milestones or payments submitted), and a couple of other ones that were old that I closed myself and the clients didn't leave feedback.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>4. I took steps to resolve both of those things (finished one of those long ongoing contracts and submitted work for payment) and was actually able to contact one of the other past clients and ask him to leave feedback for me.&nbsp; Now, I wouldn't have done that last with just any client.&nbsp; This is someone I know and knew how he would react.&nbsp; He's the only one I contacted.&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR /><BR /></P><P>5. My JSS went back up by 5% this time around, and I'm sure once I get that other contract off of my list, then it'll go back up some more.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>6. (And I can't emphasize this one enough)&nbsp; Highest JSS doesn't always get the job.&nbsp; JSS matters, but I don't think it matters as much as UW would have you believe unless you really want that Top Rated badge (which, okay, I'll admit, I totally want mine back).&nbsp; So my final advice to you is to go through your contracts lists, see how many have been open for a long time and see if you can clean that up in any way.&nbsp; Also, when you're searching for jobs over the next couple of weeks, look for jobs with past clients, because repeat clients can help your score.&nbsp; The other thing I would suggest is that you take a look at any interactions you had with clients in the last couple of weeks or jobs that closed in that period that were potentially negative - even if you got good public feedback.&nbsp; There's still the "private feedback," and when it comes to JSS, that number (1-10 on how likely they are to recommend you) can really affect your score, too.<BR /><BR />That's all I got for you on this issue.&nbsp; Mine went back up this time, so my BP is down and I'm a happy FL again.&nbsp; Sorry to hear that you're going through this, too, but unfortunately it's more common than any of us like to think, apparently.</P>Sun, 03 Mar 2019 23:23:57 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/570562#M346793bmhumphreys2019-03-03T23:23:57ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/570576#M346801
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Brandon H wrote:<BR /><P>"<SPAN>In short, get it out of your head that you are the customer on this platform. We have access to "customer service" insofar as UW needs for us to function in order to make money. But the money comes from the clients and they are the customers."</SPAN>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I'm sorry, but that's where you and I are going to have to disagree.&nbsp; Yes, - as a freelancer, and even on the internet in general,&nbsp; I am a commodity that UW and other sites use, as are&nbsp;the clients, - and if UW was a social media site where the social contract is "we get to have all of your data but you get to use our site for free," then I would agree with you.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>But we also pay UpWork money in the form of fees which represent a significant portion of our earnings.&nbsp; As far as I'm concerned - if I'm handing over money to you for services when I have the option to either keep it or go somewhere else (even if those options are worse or more inconvenient than what you're offering) I'm your customer.&nbsp; Period.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><EM>Brandon, the critical point you're missing here is that in most fields, Upwork has at least 10x as many freelancers as would be optimal. If half of the freelancers quit overnight, it would IMPROVE the platform (unless that 50% just happened to include all of the higher end freelancers). You pay money to Upwork, yes, but it doesn't matter at all to Upwork whether it's you or some other freelancer paying them that money. Unless you're offering something so unique or at such a high quality that your clients will have to leave the platform to hire if you're not here, Upwork will make the exact same amount of money without you, because there's a long line of freelancers to take on that work.</EM></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><EM>On the other hand, more clients/jobs mean more total revenues.</EM></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><EM>Re your calculations, clients aren't actually paying any of the fees. The 2.75% that they pay is just Upwork passing on the payment processing fee to the client.</EM></P></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P>Mon, 04 Mar 2019 00:14:53 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/570576#M346801tlsanders2019-03-04T00:14:53ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/570580#M346804
<P>Good points about the number of FLs out there.&nbsp; I hadn't considered that.&nbsp; Still, I'm not ever going to believe that if I'm paying for something I have the option to either not pay for or to pay someone else for, I'm not a customer.&nbsp; Way too easy to make idiotic decisions with that kind of thinking.&nbsp; The bottom line is, I do pay UpWork, and for that, I expect some level of service.&nbsp; I've also said over and over in various threads here that I believe overall UW actually has some of the best customer service out there.&nbsp; The reality, though, is that I just paid them $40 out of a $200 contract.&nbsp; That's a chunk.&nbsp; And I'm not going to get in the habit of forgetting that I am owed something in return for it - otherwise it's a pretty expensive finder's fee.</P>Mon, 04 Mar 2019 01:18:37 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/570580#M346804bmhumphreys2019-03-04T01:18:37ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/577412#M350937
<P>Just wanted to update, because a lot of things I say in this thread make it sound like I think UW's CS dept&nbsp;is abhorrent (I tried to clarify a couple of times that I think they're great on every other issue but the JSS one, but the message may have gotten lost)<BR />Anyway, for the record:&nbsp; The last&nbsp;<STRONG><EM>several</EM></STRONG> interactions I've had with CS since this got started - on separate issues - have been fantastic experiences.&nbsp; The CSRs responded quickly, gave me detailed information, and really helped me out.&nbsp; So Kudos to UW's CS dept!&nbsp; You guys rock.&nbsp; Really!&nbsp;</P>Sat, 23 Mar 2019 17:01:07 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/577412#M350937bmhumphreys2019-03-23T17:01:07ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/577413#M350938
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Brandon H wrote:<BR /><P>&nbsp;The last&nbsp;<STRONG><EM>several</EM></STRONG> interactions I've had with CS since this got started - on separate issues - have been fantastic experiences.&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Just curious.... this happened like a month ago... How much can possibly go wrong that you have to contact Support <STRONG><EM>several</EM></STRONG>&nbsp; times in such a short time?</P>Sat, 23 Mar 2019 17:05:08 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/577413#M350938petra_r2019-03-23T17:05:08ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/661128#M400565
<P>Hi All, I faced the same situation. I completed 6 jobs and I had 100% score. Unfortunately, one client did not provide any feedback and that was about a year ago still I had it at 100% but a few days back it went to 88% without any further jobs or feedback. Chat bot is of no use. I am also seeking answers what exactly happened. If its because of the one no feedback it should have been at 88% a year back.</P>Wed, 23 Oct 2019 17:38:25 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/661128#M400565imransharif20502019-10-23T17:38:25ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/661259#M400631
<P>Your profile says you've had 6 jobs, but you're only showing four completed and none in progress. What's up with the other two? Did you have contracts that started and ended without payment, or on which you made a full refund?</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Outside that, the reason your score is dropping is likely that older jobs are falling out of your calculation window. Anything outside of 24 months isn't counted, so at least the oldest job on your profile (and likely the second-oldest) are no longer being considered in calculating your JSS. If the second-to-last hasn't dropped out yet and does in the next update, you will likely lose your JSS completely.</P>Thu, 24 Oct 2019 00:25:07 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/661259#M400631tlsanders2019-10-24T00:25:07ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/693037#M421348
<P>Brandon. Same exact story with me. I cannot give you any idea how or why. But my JSs rate plummeted as well. I did have five contracts which were open and I closed them. &nbsp;I asked customer service twice and going to go through LinkedIn for an answer to find another person. I was told if it's below 75% there would be little chance of a me getting a gig. I think they are right. I really counted on upwork and i am semiretired now. I have had 5 projects and they were like an averages of 4.8 which out of 5 is closer to 90%. Than 66%. I ended two contracts but the client canceled them for tiny budgets that were dreadful. Maybe that hurt. I never paid attention to the success rate until recently when a potential client brought it up. He turned out to be a creep like a lot these clients are. &nbsp;Hope we can get better scores. I do think they are important and I disagree with other messages that they are not maybe important. My gigs have fallen off since the JSs went down. I guess I can just quit the site sadly.</P>Tue, 21 Jan 2020 09:57:39 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/693037#M421348researchpoz2020-01-21T09:57:39ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/693038#M421349
<P>Yep. Reputation at stake like mine. Cant tell why it's plummeting. No one can answer. Bad situation and algorithm.</P>Tue, 21 Jan 2020 10:00:10 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/693038#M421349researchpoz2020-01-21T10:00:10ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/693041#M421352
<P>Exact 100% like you. Exactly. This was an old post so maybe you are fine now.</P>Tue, 21 Jan 2020 10:05:10 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/693041#M421352researchpoz2020-01-21T10:05:10ZRe: Job Success Score dropping nearly 20% without any explanationhttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/693042#M421353
<P>Wondering I am in same boat. Did your score go back up. Mine tanked. Just tanked.&nbsp;</P>Tue, 21 Jan 2020 10:12:16 GMThttps://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Job-Success-Score-dropping-nearly-20-without-any-explanation/m-p/693042#M421353researchpoz2020-01-21T10:12:16Z