He definitely didn't rape those girls. That whole affair is just extremely embarrassing for Sweden and our judicial system.
And it's probably just the beginning of all the smear campaigns, setups and dirty business facing Assange. I admire him immensely, and I think if there were more people like him, the world would be a better place.
Tear.

get this- he's not actually being charged with raping those girls, at least not the sort of "rape" we think of. for case one he's being charged with coercion which is considered rape under swedish law. in case two he is being charged with sexual molestation because the condom broke and in sweden unprotected sex = illegal.

so..even if he is guilty all he's done is talk one girl into boning him and had unprotected sex with another? where's finland when you need clarification :(

get this- he's not actually being charged with raping those girls, at least not the sort of "rape" we think of. for case one he's being charged with coercion which is considered rape under swedish law. in case two he is being charged with sexual molestation because the condom broke and in sweden unprotected sex = illegal.

so..even if he is guiltyall he's done is talk one girl into boning him and had unprotected sex with another? where's finland when you need clarification :(

By this definition isnt all consensual sex illegal? Way to go Sweden. :rolleyes

Zhukov

Dec 8th, 2010 03:16 AM

The whole thing is a bloody disgrace, as usual. I'm looking forward to more leaks of this sort, and hopefully it will start something of a trend in journalism. Assange said that a major US bank is the next target to have it's shit brought out into the public.

WIKILEAKED:

US diplomats 'bargained' with Slovenia and Kiribati to take Guantanamo Bay captives in exchange for a visit from Obama (maybe it was Oprah?) or million dollar economic deals.

Russian government has ties with organised crime and mafia.

US ambassador in Sri Lanka admits that the government has closed all investigations into war crimes against Tamils.

US Embassy found Afghanistan's vice president carrying $52 million in cash during a trip to Dubai in 2009. Left well alone.

US diplomats in Sth America told to concentrate on isolating and undermining Venezuela. Other left wing governments targeted for 'information collection'.

US ambassador to Honduras describes violent military coup there to be "clearly illegal" and "illegitimate". Left well alone.

Israel, Saudi Arabia and Jordan pressure US to attack Iran.

Saudi nationals biggest donors to Al-Qaeda. Left well alone.

Israel and US chats about preemptive strikes on Iran; what to do, what not to do.

Pentegarn

Dec 8th, 2010 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blasted Child
(Post 706808)

He definitely didn't rape those girls. That whole affair is just extremely embarrassing for Sweden and our judicial system.
And it's probably just the beginning of all the smear campaigns, setups and dirty business facing Assange. I admire him immensely, and I think if there were more people like him, the world would be a better place.
Tear.

You admire a guy who is a hacker? A guy who steals information that should never be public and makes it so? You admire a man who's actions show him to be an anarchist? You want more people like him around?

I got news for you, there are more people in te world like him, people who have no respect for privacy rights, people who are at their heart anarchists, and they are stealing identities right and left.

Maybe if you were a victim of these people, or had any empathy whatsoever for those who have been, your viewpoint would be different. These sorts of people are leeches and have no value to society, they are not heroes, they are criminals.

Of course there will be a smear campaign against him, and he will be fought by any means necessary. He has already proven he cannot be trusted. This isn't the first time someone dangerous has been stopped by alternate means. Al Capone was a horrible man who dodged justice as well. In the end they could not pin the crimes he was responsible for on him, so they stopped him by getting him for tax evasion.

Zhukov

Dec 8th, 2010 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pentegarn
(Post 706879)

You admire a guy who is a hacker? A guy who steals information that should never be public and makes it so? You admire a man who's actions show him to be an anarchist? You want more people like him around?

Information that should never be made public. Is there really ever such a thing? Is there some truth out there that SHOULD be kept secret so that nobody will ever find out, ever, lest it endanger human kind somehow? So far, no. Everything put through wikileaks are things that the public should know about their governments. The torture of people, the use of banned weapons on civilians, the war talk, and plotting to topple democratically elected governments.... people should know these truths, then they can decide if they want those sort of things to go on in the world. If you want to argue that plotting to attack Iran should be secret from IRAN lest they strike first and kill people etc etc.... do you really think Iran isn't planning war against the US as well?

"Lives are at stake" is something that I have heard several times on the news; but I haven't heard how they are a stake, whose lives and why. Weigh it up: which is more likely, that your government doesn't want people knowing about human rights abuses and shady political bullshit.... or that they are concerned people will get hurt as a result of people finding out about Israel bombing people with phosphorus artillery....?

It's not terrorism to break the news to the world that there is sort of shit going on. Don't shoot the messenger.

Oh, and I've read nothing about him that would suggest he is an anarchist. If he was then I would have more respect for him than now.

Quote:

I got news for you, there are more people in te world like him, people who have no respect for privacy rights, people who are at their heart anarchists, and they are stealing identities right and left.

You're saying that Julian Assange is stealing people's identities, and has no respect for privacy rights? Who's privacy rights? A government should have no right to privacy, and should be open to the people it claims to defend and serve. I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but if it has THESE secrets that we now know about, what else isn't your government (and mine, and his, and hers) telling you?

I think Assange was charged with some cyber hacking in his yoof, which you may be referring to, but that's not what he is doing now. He's not hacking government websites to steal info, he is offering a medium for whistle-blowers to get their stuff out there. Isn't some US private still being held in prison without trial over being a whistle-blower on Abu-Gahrib prisoner abuses, or something along those lines? You punish the person that speaks up about abuse and torture, but not the torturers. Nice.

Quote:

Maybe if you were a victim of these people, or had any empathy whatsoever for those who have been, your viewpoint would be different. These sorts of people are leeches and have no value to society, they are not heroes, they are criminals.

Which victims? The US government? Several governments have been forced to address facts about their actions. Things which should ALWAYS be under public scrutiny. If you know of any human victims, then let me know.

Quote:

Of course there will be a smear campaign against him, and he will be fought by any means necessary. He has already proven he cannot be trusted. This isn't the first time someone dangerous has been stopped by alternate means. Al Capone was a horrible man who dodged justice as well. In the end they could not pin the crimes he was responsible for on him, so they stopped him by getting him for tax evasion.

Alternate means to justice. Nice. I doubt he will end up dead any time soon, although I'm not writing it off completely, but you really think he doesn't deserve a trial in his OWN country? This is a really horrible thing about today; your government tells you that they are terrorists, and since they are terrorists they don't deserve the right to prove otherwise. You think that lies should be told to fight him, and that any means should be used to stop him, that's a reall.... ah, it just hit me, am I being.... trolled?

Kitsa

Dec 8th, 2010 08:36 AM

Am I the only one who thinks of Bond villains every time I look at that guy? Something about him just screams Bond villain.

Guitar Woman

Dec 8th, 2010 08:48 AM

I thought those guys lived in hollowed-out secret volcano lairs, not couch-surfing in Europe.

Pentagarn, are you trolling? Goddamn. Anarchy != chaos, go to college and/or wikipedia to learn things

I thought the "lives at stake" thing sprung from how he released a billion thousand Afghanistan Black Ops dox, which terrorists could peruse at their leisure for info on how the military works, and find weaknesses to exploit. To someone who's only been arsed to read about ten of the leaked documents, this sounds credible, I guess? What I saw was more like police reports than disclosure of vital combat stratagems. Like, "We recieved tips that these guys were cultivating poppies to pay for terroristy shit, so we went and checked them out. They had a shit ton of opium, so we took them into custody."

Of course, with the new stuff, it's like America's diary has been photocopied and mailed to everyone else at school, and we've done nothing in it but talk shit about everyone while also making plans to exploit them for fun and profit. Anyone with enough balls to release something like that has my vote, because that is hilarious.

Zhukov

Dec 8th, 2010 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitar Woman
(Post 706888)

I thought the "lives at stake" thing sprung from how he released a billion thousand Afghanistan Black Ops dox, which terrorists could peruse at their leisure for info on how the military works, and find weaknesses to exploit.

Yes, that's the argument. But it's bunkum because it's basically just what you described; war logs. 'Lives at Risk' is the best that they can come up with to defend the secrecy about the whole business, from war logs to human rights abuse, to diplomatic embarrassments. Actively ignoring war crimes is probably more risky for peoples lives.

Kitsa, it's the whitish hair and the black suit/shirt combo that he likes to sport.

Dimnos

Dec 8th, 2010 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhukov
(Post 706883)

... <lots of good points>

I have to agree with Zhukov on this one. As far as his work at Wikileaks goes the guy isnt guilty of anything other than enforcing the freedom of information act. This kind of stuff needs to be out their.

Colonel Flagg

Dec 8th, 2010 12:36 PM

For one, I'd like to see a few more leaks targeting, for example, secret documents out of Beijing, Moscow, or - dare I say it - al-Qaeda. But I realize it's more cachet to embarrass the "ugly Americans".

Kit - he's no Blofeld, but I definitely see the connection.

The Leader

Dec 8th, 2010 01:08 PM

You wouldn't get leaks out of Beijing or Moscow because anyone like Pfc. Bradley Manning who did something like that in those places would suddenly disappear. :x

Dimnos

Dec 8th, 2010 01:32 PM

I thought some of what they released was from Moscow. Didnt they link Putin to knowledge of the Litvinenko murder?

Tadao

Dec 8th, 2010 01:35 PM

I'M SHOCKED THAT THE U.S. ACTS IN SUCH A WAY!

Also I think every country knows the U.S. is doing all this.

What shocks me is that any country would be all NO WE WOULD NEVER ACT LIKE THAT IF WE WERE GIVEN THE CHANCE.