Friday, November 20, 2009

IBM discontinues Cell chip line, PS4 affected

IBM is discontinuing the Cell chip line of products. A successor to the current PowerXCell-8i chip will not be brought to market, the company's Vice President of Deep Computing, David Turek, told the German IT news site Heise.

Turek did note that the Cell design was not dead and would in parts be implemented across IBM's various other chip designs. The future, though, belongs to hybrid designs and heterogenous multiprocessing, Turek said.

The ramifications for a possible successor to the PlayStation3, which contains the Cell chip, could be significant. Its architecture can no longer be Cell-based, which would entail the following: Firstly, backwards compatibility to the PS3 would no longer be possible on a hardware basis. It would have to be emulated, which is always the worse option. And, secondly, Sony could no longer look forward to a relatively cheap research and development budget for the PS4.

Over the past two years, various reports have sprung up that Sony was very much considering a Cell-based chip for the PS4.

The plan to use variants of Cell in future PlayStation iterations was always in place, explains [Impress Watch technology writer Hiroshige Goto], which is why Sony invested so heavily in the chipset. However, while the use of the Cell in the PS4 may seem like Sony just sticking with its original plan, the real reason could be that the company in its current form doesn't have the reserves to create another chipset and build all the requisite development tools above it.

Going with Cell has the benefits of keeping production costs down for the PS4 and also allowing cutting game development costs due to a consistent architecture. Sony would also be able to include a smaller chip size from the start, potentially reducing the system's retail price.

Of course, IBM would not discontinue a chip line if Sony was still interested in it. So we can safely assume that Sony changed its mind. But why? A Cell-based solution would have had many advantages for the company, as noted above. One possible explanation would be that Sony has cancelled its plans for another PlayStation and will be leaving the home console market. Analysts discussed this option years ago.

And while the slimmer version and price cut have helped the console gain some market share, the price cut is costing Sony dearly. The Washington Post reported that Sony is further away from profitability than previously thought.

Sony (...) pushed back its target for an operating profit margin of 5 percent to March 2013. Chief Executive Howard Stringer had originally set the target in 2005 for the financial year to March 2008, but plans for recovery were waylaid by the economic slowdown.

In my mind, withdrawing from the home console market altogether is a real possibility. And IBM discontinuing the Cell chip line may be the first indicator of such a move.

EDIT I welcome all people from NeoGAF to read up on the exclusive stories I broke. I understand that some of you people may be suspicious of this blog's title but I can assure you that I am an impartial games journalist (have been for ten years) and work for a German television show focussing on games and technology.

It should not be a taboo to discuss the possibility of Sony withdrawing from the home console market. Given their financial status and their CEO's attitude, it is not out of the question. And with IBM discontinuing the Cell chip, Sony would have to invest a huge research and development budget into a new console. I welcome reasonable discussion and invite you to share your thoughts in the comments section.

EDIT Sony apparently considered the Intel Larrabee for the PlayStation4, a CPU / GPU hybrid, according to Japanese site PC Watch (translated by Joystiq). The plans have likely been abandoned since, as the project has been downgraded and delayed by Intel. An unnamed source within Sony Computer Entertainment is quoted as saying that the chip may be used in future generations: "Larrabee can help us to plan PS5 and PS6, but it cannot make it into PS4."

"Hai guys, check out my wicked cool Nintendo blog where I speculate out of my ass and generaly make myself look like a fool. You better recognise my 'inside knowledge of Nintendo'."

Lawl, thank god for sites like NeoGAF that ban sorry-ass, blog-plugging try-hards - i'm sure every retarded gaming forum on the net will repost your brilliantly researched article and you'll be sure to get a ton of hits for your super awesome blog. Thankfully GAF is free of such idiocy.

Can you explain why this should be a "real possibility" for Sony? I don`t get it.

Sure, I will try to explain. Sony has lost billions with the PlayStation3 only to come last this generation. And just when they were about to finally start earning money with each console sold, the third parties demanded a price cut "or else".

Stringer's goal of making the corporation profitable again has been pushed back even further. And he himself has said that there are no longer any holy cows within Sony.

Why should Sony risk investing billions into a new home console when the returns from it are far from guaranteed? If they want to hedge their bets, they should just pull out after the PS3. They should milk it for what it's worth, i.e. try to meet their goal to keep the console alive on the market for ten years and then call it a day.

Disregarding speculation, the bottom line is that there is no Cell without IBM. Sony brought the marketing, Toshiba brought the notions of extended functionality, IBM brought the actual chip design and production. All three brought money, but money can't buy you love. The other two can go, but the party's over if IBM leaves.

I'm predicting Sony will stay in gaming, but solely as makers of an as yet unannounced handheld system. I wouldn't put it past them to make it really powerful and slap the Playstation 4 label on it. Marketing will focus on convincing the consumer that console gaming is dead and that portable gaming is the only way to go. Sony will continue losing money before pulling out completely, GAF will explode with megatons and weeping, and that will be the end of it. Sega (in partnership with Microsoft) vs. Nintendo two gens from now. I can't wait.

Very good points there. That is precisely the kind of scenario that the news of IBM abandoning the Cell chip might herald. I will not commit myself to saying that it is likely, but it is a real possibility.

1 - the upgrade path for sony will be tough... whereas it seems a given that MS will be using ati / custom powerpc again... meaning that backwards compatibility could be an issue... with the PSN and XBLM becoming a key part of the market, the ability to migrate that content across to the new systems will be important... an you imagine if MS just carry their market place across and all of sony's PSN games don't work, for instance? epic fail.

2 - Developers... all their custom cell tech becomes useless. Who will optimise for the cell during the later years of the PS3 if it becomes clear that all that tech will end up in the bin. On the flip side they might well welcome a move away from cell and it could mean the next two systems have a much more equal footing in terms of support / ports, etc.

3 - do we go through another couple of years where sony's in-house studio output is hamstrung by learning the tech rather than making games...?

it looks very hazy for sony in terms of how you manage all of this with a move to a new chipset... especially if microsoft offers developers and publishers an easy / smooth transition.

This can only have a negative impact on Sony's console prospects. I'm interested in just how this will affect Sony's plans for a PS4, since the line already cost Sony billions of dollars.

Either way, next generation is going to become very interesting. :)

Upon reading the comments, it seems that the NeoGAFers are shrieking pretty loudly about this news. I can't help but find that amusing. It's like someone just kicked their puppy, and they need to lash out at the nearest possible thing to get even.

"Why should Sony risk investing billions into a new home console when the returns from it are far from guaranteed? If they want to hedge their bets, they should just pull out after the PS3. They should milk it for what it's worth, i.e. try to meet their goal to keep the console alive on the market for ten years and then call it a day."

Yes, I understand. But if they achieve to establish a wealthy ten year cycle for their PS3, they could have enough time to get things straight again.

And besides, isn`t MS`s XBOX division loosing money too?

I think its common sense, that the PS3 had a hard time in the beginning: it launched way to early (Blueray, HDTVs wasn`t established in mass market) and had too much of everthing under the hood (What audience targeted this Monster-Device anyways. I think Sonys slogan then was more or less: hey, with this machine you`ll have everything you need for da future. As if time will stand still for the next 20 years...)which made it so expensive in first place. (no wonder mr. kutaragi went. this was a monumenteous misinterpretation of market situation back then).

But today – with all its lost "useless" componenents – PS3Slims future looks fitter than ever.I think 2010 is the year of the PS3 to shine. And maybe Sony will wait till 2011 to decide wether they stay in the console business or not. Because when your once out, you dont come back any time soon...

Hell, even Me, a nintendo-only-console-player, got me a PS3 two weeks ago, when it was only 240 Euro in every MediaMarkt. There are plenty of old, now cheap games for it. And its quiet a leap in experience in comparison to the good old Wii. Don´t get me wrong, I´m not speaking about graphic quality here but about epic games with innovative smooth and deep gameplay. Exactly these games are practically (and sadly) non-existent right now on the Wii...

Falafelkid simply points into a possible future, yet is banned and ridiculed by you guys.

Damn,since about 2 years, every topic on neogaf gets shit up by sony-fans. Whenever there´s a thread about "something something best" I make bets with other gamers about when the topic is shat up by Sony-fans mentioning Shit of the Colossus. And wow at the Uncharted 2-votes in the best game-topic. And of course, in the topic about "have games hit a graphical ceiling", its all about sony-games, rofl.

i really hope sony gets destroyed they are very arrogant and have a lot stealing other peoples ideas not only in the video game business but in every other business as wel.

the only one competitor of nintendo i have respect for is segabecause they where really a game company unlike microsoft and sony for them games aren't priority but other businesses. customers don't realise that yet.

For those defending Falafelkid: he wasn't banned for just this topic alone. Credibility is what you must have to order to make such a statement about Sony pulling out. His post history showed alot of bias against Sony and their products over the past two years. Saying the PS3 is a "disaster" and has "no good games" just a few months ago is a ridiculous statement to make. Whether or not Falaelkid was a Sony fanboy attacking Microsoft products, or a Microsoft/Sony fanboy attacking Nintendo, he would've gotten banned regardless. NeoGAF is very fair concerning this. Just a few weeks ago a well-knowned poster was banned after posting a joke about concert art transitioning to video games, saying they all transition well, except on the Wii. There are many examples of this, and Falafelkid vey much deserved his banning.

Rick: Saying the PS3 is a "disaster" and has "no good games" just a few months ago is a ridiculous statement to make.

When there´s still Sony-fans claiming the Wii has no games, I just cannot see how its wrong to say the PS3 has no games.

And get yourself a reality-check. "Someone has to have credibility to say that"? Yeah, sure, and if Hitler defended the PS3 everyone would hate Sony, just because the one who said something doesnt have credibility.

In short: someone can say something wrong at one time, and say something right at another time.

Also, I agree with the one comment above. A 2-console industry, lead by Nintendo and Sega, each with their own console, would be the best. There´d be no more console wars bs, because everyone would just happily buy Nintendo and Sega-systems ;)

Hitler and gaming forum discussion should not be related in any way. Regardless, when you say so many biased things on a consistent basis, how can anyone want to hear you out when you claim such an opinion? If Jack Tretton said something negative about the Wii, this whole discussion will be reversed.

Also, about the Wii vs PS3 "no games" situation: how can you make such a statement? The fact remains that theres a decrease in the amount of quality games released on the Wii this year, compared to the previous years while the quality is increasing for the PS3. Saying theres "no games" for both systems is ridiculous. It doesn't warrant a "but he hit me first!" kind of response from you

All I believe is that you shouldnt look down on someone just because of his posting history. Of course, you´ll disagree, but many of the "well respected" neogaffers wrote a lot of bs in the past. And, not having read falafel´s history, there´s a short line between "fanboy" and "enthusiast". Maybe he´s just the latter and due to Sony-fans disliking his last topic, they turn him into the prior. Oh well...

Also, about the Wii vs PS3 "no games" situation: how can you make such a statement? The fact remains that theres a decrease in the amount of quality games released on the Wii this year, compared to the previous years while the quality is increasing for the PS3. Saying theres "no games" for both systems is ridiculous. It doesn't warrant a "but he hit me first!" kind of response from you

This is 100% bs and you know that, dear Rick. The Wii had a strong lineup right from the first month of the year. Last year, we had SSBB and MarioKart. This year, Nintendo themselves lack, but 3rd parties offered a hella lot of great games.

Just because Sony-fans tend to hype the shit out of anything that´s PS3-exclusive doesnt make the system have a better lineup.

There is a fine line between fanboy and an enthusiast, but attacking Sony constantly is neither. There are many well-respected nintendo enthusiast on NeoGAF, but they usually mind their businesses and dont hope for a sega vs ninty only console war in the future.

And besides Madworld and maybe two other titles, what else has been introduced to the Wii this year? in the past 6 months, only Wii sports resort has been worthy of talk. and next weeks theres NSMB. Then? The DS even has a far better selection than that. But i still wouldnt say Nintendo has no games, just that it not as strong as the previous 2 falls

First of all, thanks for the overwhelmingly constructive comments. Thanks for keeping it civil.

Hi Anonymous.

If they achieve to establish a wealthy ten year cycle for their PS3, they could have enough time to get things straight again. (...)

I think its common sense, that the PS3 had a hard time in the beginning (...) But today – with all its lost "useless" componenents – PS3Slims future looks fitter than ever.

Absolutely. They could and they might. But even if the Slim and the new price tag will propel sales and Sony can gain second place this gen (because noone will match the Wii), the experience of the "hard time at the beginning" should be enough reason to dissuade them from doing so. So far, the PlayStation business has been the corporation's cash cow. Noone could even come close to the PS1 and PS2 install base. The list of exclusive software was long and the software was outstanding. It was a walk in the park. But Sony probably will never have it that easy again. And this makes me wonder whether Stringer is considering to pull out.

And besides, isn`t MS`s XBOX division loosing money too?

Yes, loads. By mid-2007 the Xbox division had lost MS six billion dollars. That is the final total of both consoles until then, after balancing income with expenses. At the end of the day, MS paid six billion dollars to be where they were at in the summer of 2007. That is absolutely crazy and it is a safe bet to say that if Microsoft could have known it would be that expensive, they would not have entered that market.

But Microsoft can afford this kind of money. They have many other profitable sources of revenue and so they can afford staying power. Sony cannot. Finally, their tv sets are raking in money again. But nowhere near enough for Stringer to invest heavily into SCEI. Sony has invested into SCEI. They too invested billions over the past few years and have seen little return. Stringer wants to see some profit. And postponing profitability for another few years is not going to amuse him.

Hell, even Me, a nintendo-only-console-player, got me a PS3 two weeks ago, when it was only 240 Euro in every MediaMarkt.

Oh, the PS3 is becoming a good bargain for the consumer. I would still advise people to buy the 360 first, because the software library puts the PS3's to shame. But there are enough good titles out for the PS3 by now. And if you are keen on Blu-ray, it's your obvious choice.

But a price reduction is always a sign of the product not selling previously. That is the only reason of a price cut. The same is true of the 360 and the Wii. Companies reduce the price only if they are not shifting enough units. So while the cut is good for the consumer, it is also an indicator of the product having done badly before the cut.

epic games with innovative smooth and deep gameplay (...) are practically (and sadly) non-existent right now on the Wii...

Well, there are some games that serve me well enough in the epic department. Zelda and Metroid are fantastic. But you are quite right: there aren't enough.And it is rather sad that Nintendo has managed to beat the competition this gen by a landslide and still fail to attract the third parties the way they did back in the days of the NES and SNES. Nintendo has a lot of work to do in some departments. And the huge success that is the Wii should not let us forget that they have made some grave mistakes with it also (like not telling developers about Wii Motion Plus in advance).

Firstly, thanks. I am not. I would much rather be right than popular. And secondly, I worked for the RTL II News for eight years then moved over to 3sat Neues in late 2007.

Hi Jeff.

Any news about Factor 5? Have you talked to Achim Moller?

No news. Sorry.

Hi

i don't think sony will pull out the console business yet.

i really hope sony gets destroyed they are very arrogant and have a lot stealing other peoples ideas not only in the video game business but in every other business as wel.

You sound ideologically motivated. And while Sony has indeed been quite arrogant, Nintendo is not exactly the media darling either. Perhaps for other reasons, but large companies are large companies and want to make money.

Hi Rick.

Saying the PS3 is a "disaster" and has "no good games" just a few months ago is a ridiculous statement to make. Whether or not Falaelkid was a Sony fanboy attacking Microsoft products, or a Microsoft/Sony fanboy attacking Nintendo, he would've gotten banned regardless. NeoGAF is very fair concerning this. Just a few weeks ago a well-knowned poster was banned after posting a joke about concert art transitioning to video games, saying they all transition well, except on the Wii. There are many examples of this, and Falafelkid vey much deserved his banning.

Thanks for keeping it civil. And I am very open to your point of view. However, the PS3 quite obviously was a disaster, at least the first year or so was. Financially, it still is one, quite obviously. And the software library still doesn't compare to the 360. And by saying that I am in good company. Just think about what Gabe Newell said. Or plenty of analysts.

And I am sorry, drawing my reputation into question after a pretty impressive list of exclusive stories does not make sense. And did you notice that a lot of those stories sort of are not very flattering for Nintendo? Least powerful hardware, game-specific friend codes... not exactly the musings of a fanboy, methinks.

I will point out that a lot of people considering themselves core gamers find it fashionable to bash Nintendo. Of course, there are fewer traditional games and more party games on the system than its competitors. But there are more Resident Evil titles out for the Wii than any other console. There are more survival horror games in general, and most of them are pretty decent. Play ´Darkside Chronicles´ and tell me that is a bad game.

And you also have to appreciate that Nintendo managed to bring videogames back to what they were and always should be: a toy that is fun. A lot of people must realise that they are no longer core gamers, because the core shifted. If ´Wii Fit´ outsells ´GTA IV´, guess what must be called core gaming nowadays.

Again, I very much appreciate your concerns about bias towards Nintendo. As a journalist, I am most concerned about that myself. But I strongly believe that if you had been following my blog and general work closely you would be convinced of the opposite. After all, the general hate mail we get at work accuses me of bias for each of the three manufacturers, which I find somewhat reassuring.

Wow... this got messy quickly. Something says that I'll be lurking for a while.

Thanks for being here. If you will lurk for a little while longer, I can finally go to bed without worrying ;)

Hi again, Rick.

The fact remains that theres a decrease in the amount of quality games released on the Wii this year, compared to the previous years while the quality is increasing for the PS3. Saying theres "no games" for both systems is ridiculous.

You know perfectly well what people mean by saying that there are no games. They mean "not enough". And while the Wii had a pretty good first two years and the PS3 was obviously losing a number of high profile exclusives, the situation right now appears reversed. Fair point. But I still worry most about the PS3 portfolio and with good reason.

There is a fine line between fanboy and an enthusiast, but attacking Sony constantly is neither. There are many well-respected nintendo enthusiast on NeoGAF, but they usually mind their businesses and dont hope for a sega vs ninty only console war in the future.

I posted not too often on NeoGAF. And maybe my critical stance regarding the PS3 is related to the console doing so badly in general. Did that ever occur to you? I mean, let us not talk about it being a disaster or not, the PS3 has not exactly met with expectations, right? There you go. Stick around until the next gen and see what I write about Nintendo then. Because they almost certainly will do worse next time around.

@ Anonymous

Fanboy with fanboy post history writes fanboy article, gets banned. People are surprised?

i am not some die-hard wii gamer, i am disapointed in wii's software selection. i also can appreciate high-tech games, especially racing games wich wii lacks.

i'm sure crysis is great (my brother told me exact same thing) but so pure FPS game is just not my cup of tea.

my point was, average custumer just don't care what chip is inside, or amount of RAM or whatever. corporations like Sony and MS are all about money, and that is a fact. they don't care if wa actually enjoy the game.

the "cell" itself is just a marketing trick for all the "techo freaks". well, Ninendo proved that gaming system can be sold to much wider public

now that you mentioned crysis. as far as i know (correct me if i'm wrong), cryengine 3 is actually a step back optimised for console use. that's what i saw in comparison video. why? money money money

I tend to agree with you, but you´ll have to word it more carefully or Sony-fans will jump at you :D

Of course, Nintendo also is after our money. But I see them trying to do so by staying truer to what a gaming company should be like. There one line Iwata told in an interview that really shows how Nintendo thinks: He was asked if there could ever be a Nintendo mobile phone device or if the next handheld would feature something like that. His answer? No, not as long as consumers have to pay for being online.

That´s but one example of Nintendo´s philosophy. Yeah, they try to maximize their income, but they also follow a likeable philosophy. Another example would be Miyamoto, who doesn´t give a damn about online as long as it doesnt offer something substantially new (that is not just multiplayer), or the Zelda-series in general, where they never try to make the game forcefully look "cool". Take the sky temple, any other company would have featured some lord of the rings-evles like folk, yet Nintendo gave us those weird Ooccoos :P

There´s a lot to complain about Nintendo, but when it comes down to it, Nintendo´s where gaming at its finest is. All those big hype-blockbuster games like Killzone 2, Uncharted 2 or Assasins Creed 2 will be forgotten soon...but New Super Mario Bros. Wii will be there for years and people will always have fun with it.

There´s a reason why Nintendo-fans are the most loyal and I´m glad im part of that group.

Btw. what i wanted to add to Crysis: While it often gets dismissed as a graphics-only game, thats actually not true. Crysis features GREAT interactivity with the whole environment. Something most pretty looking games forget. So, Crysis is...like the fps Miyamoto would create, to say so ;)

"Yes, I understand. But if they achieve to establish a wealthy ten year cycle for their PS3, they could have enough time to get things straight again."

They've lost ~5 billion since launching the PS3. Last gen they made ~3 billion, from the most successful console ever. That leaves them with 7 years and a platform with ~20% marketshare (down from ~80%) and comparatively (from PS2) tiny SW sales to pull in PS2 like profits.......Still think it possible?

The reaction from the cry babies at GAF is not surprising, say something they don’t agree with you get banned no matter how innocuous it is, silencing posters at GAF because they post different viewpoints on topics is nothing new and since it's a topic about Sony their reactions are bound to be more vehement.

As for Sony exiting the home console market it is a possibility, PS3 has been a disaster from start to finish and the situation for Sony as a whole doesn't look good.

But a fanboy - why not grow up dude ? Thats sad ...Your statements just make no sense.So IBM said no more Cell for us.Afaik Sony owns the Cell two, so they could work something out alone or with Toshiba or even with IBM.You know, its all about the money ...They could also use another CPU - Sony never had backward compatible hardware. Neither had Microsoft or Nintendo (aside from the Wii and the Handhelds).

"One possible explanation would be that Sony has cancelled its plans for another PlayStation and will be leaving the home console market"

Or the possibillity coulde be that "The future, though, belongs to hybrid designs and heterogenous multiprocessing"U know the 360 and Wii CPUs are custom designs they arent built for anything else besides the consoles - Microsoft and Nintendo bail out confirmed ...

"That is absolutely crazy and it is a safe bet to say that if Microsoft could have known it would be that expensive, they would not have entered that market."

No its not - if they pull out of the console market they loose the living room - they tried for years to bring the pc and windows into the living room - and they failed. But Sony succeeded with the Ps.Microsoft wants the living room.

"But Microsoft can afford this kind of money. They have many other profitable sources of revenue and so they can afford staying power. Sony cannot."

And yet they do -> seems they can.They even had a meeting saying that by the year ending March 2011 they hope to be returning to profitability so the looses will go on for some time.

"I would still advise people to buy the 360 first, because the software library puts the PS3's to shame."

The fanboy again - isnt this personal preference ?

"And while Sony has indeed been quite arrogant"

Ah i always liked this statement, cause it seems to be the universal answer, when in reality it says nothing.

"after a pretty impressive list of exclusive stories"

So your writing of a few "exclusive" stories proves that PS3 is a "disaster" and has "no good games" ?

"And you also have to appreciate that Nintendo managed to bring videogames back to what they were and always should be: a toy that is fun."

What does that even mean ?PS3 and 360 aren't fun ?That sounds like some nonsense to make a point for Nintendo.

"A lot of people must realise that they are no longer core gamers, because the core shifted. If ´Wii Fit´ outsells ´GTA IV´, guess what must be called core gaming nowadays."

And that means what ?Core is just a name for the "traditional" gamers - it doesnt matter how u call them. That there are more "casual" gamers out there is no news.

"But I still worry most about the PS3 portfolio and with good reason."

Ya a good reason many "traditional" gamers will agree with. See Gamerankings.com for further details ...

GAFers, Wiiboy, Nintendo/Sony bashing, and Godwin's law, all in one comment section. I have to say that I'm impressed. I shouldn't be, but this is pretty impressive. :)

Really, it's all speculation at this point, isn't it? Falafel's speculated on a few bits of wild stuff in the past (AR, for example), but he's also been pretty much on the ball on a huge number of topics. More so than a few analysts that tend to creep up every 2 weeks, at least. ;)

I have to admit though, that this is interesting to just watch as it unfolds... minus the "hurf durf lol nitedo suk kiddy" posters. They can play in traffic as punishment for mangling the English language. ;)

"I would still advise people to buy the 360 first, because the software library puts the PS3's to shame." (Falafel)

"The fanboy again - isnt this personal preference ?"(Biene Maja)

i too think its more or less preference. I'm not that big of a FPS-Player (looks a bit too repetitive to me...), so the only game that come in my mind i would like to play on xbox is fable 2. (are there any other xbox exclusives in this manner?)

On the other side, PS3 library seems to get some outstandig exclusives in near future.

It´s true that there a significantly fewer games for ps3, but who has the time to play all the games. I think you have to choose and of course you would want to play the good ones (regardless which console you own)...

with kind regards

p.s.: im not a neogafer, just coincidence i posted here and came between this here.

What is your reasoning behind this? The difficulty in repeating the massive success of the Wii?

Absolutely. With the exception of factors such as brand loyalty and backwards compatibility, every new gen starts with a clean slate.

And normally, a company will innovate in one generation and consolidate in the next (to save money and in order not to put too great a demand on the consumer who have just gotten used to a new technology or the like). But Microsoft and Sony (if they enter the ring once more) have adopted motion controls and are already offering HD visuals. So where does that leave Nintendo? Unless Nintendo can introduce 3D gaming with their Wii successor, I think they will have a hard time next gen.

Hi Anonymous.

you were banned because you linked your blog. It's in the TOS of NeoGAF. I'm not a regular there. In fact, i've never even posted.

One way or another, I find the GAF to be too strict and elitist, but you did break a pretty obvious rule.

Funny, I linked to my blog very often. Ever since people on NeoGAF discovered the same story there and wondered whether I'm the same guy and why I didn't quote a source. And in the past, when I did break a rule, I used to get a stern but kind warning and complied. It's a kindergarten to ban people for an offense like this.

Hi Anonymous.

They've lost ~5 billion since launching the PS3. Last gen they made ~3 billion, from the most successful console ever. That leaves them with 7 years and a platform with ~20% marketshare (down from ~80%) and comparatively (from PS2) tiny SW sales to pull in PS2 like profits.......Still think it possible?

Interesting numbers. Do you have any sources? I very much agree in theory. I just like sources to back up those numbers.

YOu might want to re-read. You are not a fanboy of open speech and free thoughts? If so, then it's you I feel sad about. As does George Washington and a number of others.

They could also use another CPU - Sony never had backward compatible hardware.

Not strictly true. The PS2 included the PS1 chipset for hardware-based compatibility. And, as you should know, the first PS3 models also included the PS2's emotion engine for the same reason. They were both separate chipsets, if that's what you mean.

U know the 360 and Wii CPUs are custom designs they arent built for anything else besides the consoles - Microsoft and Nintendo bail out confirmed ...

Huh? Sorry, you are going to have to elaborate here. I don't understand your point at all.

What u dont seem to get is that PS3 greatly helped to win the HD War.

So? How does that help Sony? Sure, the format they helped develop and co-own won. If it had lost, things would have looked even worse, obviously. But that alone did not propel their console sales, did it? Xbox360 is still ahead by some margin.

No its not - if they [Microsoft] pull out of the console market they loose the living room - they tried for years to bring the pc and windows into the living room - and they failed. But Sony succeeded with the Ps.Microsoft wants the living room.

Again, re-read what I have written. If MS had known in hindsight just how much it would cost to share the last place with the Gamecube adn then come second the generation after, they would not have entered. It just cost them silly money to be where they are now.

They [Sony] even had a meeting saying that by the year ending March 2011 they hope to be returning to profitability so the looses will go on for some time.

Seems you didn't read my article at all. Read the excerpt from the Washington Post. Their goal of profitability has been pushed back yet again.

"I would still advise people to buy the 360 first, because the software library puts the PS3's to shame."

The fanboy again - isnt this personal preference ?

No, it's the game journalists' job to objectively look at each console's offering and then give advice. Comparing the 360 and the PS3, the 360's portfolio simply has more and better exclusive titles under its belt. Unless people also want a Blu-ray player, I advise them to get a 360.

Ah i always liked this statement, cause it seems to be the universal answer, when in reality it says nothing.

You obviously never had to deal with SCE press people. Ask other journalists, seriously.

So your writing of a few "exclusive" stories proves that PS3 is a "disaster" and has "no good games" ?

I never made that connection. Some people started going on about reputation and, I am sorry to have to insist, I have a pretty good reputation in my field.

PS3 and 360 aren't fun ?That sounds like some nonsense to make a point for Nintendo.

Not at all. Sony and Microsoft drafted and then marketed their respective consoles as graphical powerhouses rather than toys that were simply fun. Did you attend E3 2005 and 2006? Remember the three press briefings in those years? Nintendo chose to end the hardware war and concentrate on what proved a more critical issue with mass consumers: controls.

Core is just a name for the "traditional" gamers - it doesnt matter how u call them. That there are more "casual" gamers out there is no news.

Core means center. And what you call traditional gamers simply are no longer in the center, it is more and moe becoming a niche, if we like it or not. Noone would have anticipated that a ´Wii Fit´ could ever outsell a ´GTA IV´.

"But I still worry most about the PS3 portfolio and with good reason."

Ya a good reason many "traditional" gamers will agree with. See Gamerankings.com for further details ...

Yeah, compare the PS3 and the 360 portfolio both in terms of quantity and - via Gamerankings - in terms of quality. I know who wins. The Wii portfolio is a different matter, as we know. It suffers from very specific shortcomings, yet also has very specific advantages. I would not want to compare it to the PS3 or 360. I usually describe to people how it is different.

After 3 years, people are still denying that the Wiimote is best for fps? lol

What's your point? I find the Wii's controls ideal for FPS. The fact that there are practically no such games on the system is quite sad, indeed. Instead, the console became king of survival horror, which is fine too. But, quite obviously, when I play a great FPS game on the PS3 or the 360, I just wish I could play it with motion controls. It's obviously the most intuitive way and going back to simply pushing buttons is a schlepp.

"YOu might want to re-read. You are not a fanboy of open speech and free thoughts? If so, then it's you I feel sad about. As does George Washington and a number of others."

Ok i misread it, but it doesnt change the point - u are obviously not objective.

"Not strictly true. The PS2 included the PS1 chipset for hardware-based compatibility. And, as you should know, the first PS3 models also included the PS2's emotion engine for the same reason. They were both separate chipsets, if that's what you mean."

Sure i know this - what i meant is that their hardware never is bc, thats why they include their last hardware in it. Nothing could stop them if they wanted to include the Cell in their next hardware to be bc.

"Huh? Sorry, you are going to have to elaborate here. I don't understand your point at all."

What i mean here is that the 360 cpu and the Wii cpu are specifically build for the consoles. They dont sell to anyone else and they dont develop better versions to sell them. They are dead end - the same that now seems to apply to Cell. So if your point is that Sony will bail out of console buisiness because IBM wont invest THEIR money to further develop Cell, the same applies to the other 2 console manufactures because IBM wont invest to their cpus either.

"So? How does that help Sony? Sure, the format they helped develop and co-own won. If it had lost, things would have looked even worse, obviously. But that alone did not propel their console sales, did it? Xbox360 is still ahead by some margin."

It helps them because now they get money from every Blu-Ray and Blu-Ray device sold instead of pay money for every HD-DVD and every HD-DVD device they would have to build if HD-DVD won.

"Again, re-read what I have written. If MS had known in hindsight just how much it would cost to share the last place with the Gamecube adn then come second the generation after, they would not have entered. It just cost them silly money to be where they are now."

I read it and i disagree - if that were true why didnt they bail out after the first XBox ?

"Seems you didn't read my article at all. Read the excerpt from the Washington Post. Their goal of profitability has been pushed back yet again."

From Washington post"but it aims to make its video game and TV operations profitable next year."Same what i said - i was talking about the Game segment cause i thought the question is if they bail out of it or not ...And with this answer i wanted to say that they can stay in it cause they count the furthcoming looses in.

"No, it's the game journalists' job to objectively look at each console's offering and then give advice. Comparing the 360 and the PS3, the 360's portfolio simply has more and better exclusive titles under its belt. Unless people also want a Blu-ray player, I advise them to get a 360."

There is no universal answer for that - its personal preferences and it for exmaple matters what other systems the potential customer have. The overlap between 360 and Pc is higher than Ps3 and Pc for example. But i undestand that you as a journalist have o give a general advice. It's just bullshit to make statements like these:

"because the software library puts the PS3's to shame.""But I still worry most about the PS3 portfolio and with good reason."

that makes clear u are a fanboy cause 360 and Ps3 share the majority of the lineup.Oh and i hope u never ever recommend the Wii to a traditional gamer cause objectively it has the worst lineup.

"You obviously never had to deal with SCE press people. Ask other journalists, seriously."

I heard the opposite from others. And when i read some comments from u it doesnt wonder me at all. Beside that it doesnt matter i'm sure there are other people out there who would tell the same and other who would say the same about Nintendo or Microsoft people.I just like how the word is used for everything.

I dont like insert company here Why not ?They are arrogant

Why did Nintendo loose the market leader position ?Because they were arrogant

Whenever there is no answer - someone brings that one word to rule them all.

"Not at all. Sony and Microsoft drafted and then marketed their respective consoles as graphical powerhouses rather than toys that were simply fun.""Did you attend E3 2005 and 2006? Remember the three press briefings in those years? Nintendo chose to end the hardware war and concentrate on what proved a more critical issue with mass consumers: controls.

I dont see what i have to "appreciate" here ? 360 and PS3 are "toys that are fun" too.Nintendo didnt bring the "fun back" because the fun never was away.

"Yeah, compare the PS3 and the 360 portfolio both in terms of quantity and - via Gamerankings - in terms of quality. I know who wins."

Ya 360 will win but its not a earthshaking win - how u try to suggest all the time.When i count the rounded 90 % games (only non PS3/360 games, no ports, no dl games) i get this 7 PS39 360and i counted Forza2, COD2, AW1 and GTA4 dlc content (as one) on the 360 side in.

"The Wii portfolio is a different matter, as we know. It suffers from very specific shortcomings, yet also has very specific advantages. I would not want to compare it to the PS3 or 360. I usually describe to people how it is different."

Once again, I appreciate you taking the time to put your points across both well and calmly.

It's funny, though, that you think comparative statements about the console portfolios are "bullshit", then you go make just such a statement yourself, about Wii clearly losing. But I'll come to that later. Here are some 360 exclusives of note (not necessarily just the best selling or highest rated games, but games I find recommendable for a number of reasons):

First and second party titles I would mention here are LittleBigPlanet, Heavy Rain, the God of War, Gran Turismo, Uncharted and Killzone series.

I have deliberately left out the family friendly titles like SingStar and Lips, because they are very similar and cancel out (and if you want family friendly gaming, you might not be after either console, right?).

So the PS3 library is not a total disaster, true. There are some very cool games in there that I would miss if I only had an Xbox360 (obviously I have all three home consoles myself). But if I had to weigh those two portfolios up, I strongly believe that the 360 simply has the wider portfolio. The PS3 is getting most of the exclusives from Japan, which is good, of course. But where are the big exclusives from Epic Games, Rockstar and the like? The 360, on the other hand, has managed to snag a number of Japanese exclusives like Blue Dragon, because Microsoft just threw some money at those studios like Mistwalker. And with Molyneux as regional head of Microsoft Game Studios in Europe now, that territory's most popular designer is a first party to Microsoft and its console. Not unimportant.

Like I said, the PS3 offering is not too bad. But, in comparison, the 360 wins (which you also seemed to agree with). Even for those gamers that only want to play Japanese games, the PS3 is not the obvious choice.

Now, why is Wii different and why is it hard to compare this portfolio with the others? Nintendo made motion control pretty much compulsary, while MS and Sony opted for an optional approach. Because of this and because of the obvious lack of hardware power, studios cannot port 360 or PS3 games over easily. They are either forced to

a) develop a separate version of the game (usually by a separate studio, as is the case with Force Unleashed or Quantum of Solace) or

b) ignore the console and develop a separate title of the franchise (as with Resident Evil or Dead Space) or

c) ignore the console completely (take Wet or GTA) or

d) ignore the other console and develop only for Wii (take Monster Hunter or Zack and Wiki)

Nintendo intentionally took this risk of making straightforward ports impossible. This meant that they gained a lot of exclusives but also lost out on traditional cross-platform titles. This makes it difficult to compare, because the Wii lost out on Resident Evil 5, but has gotten two great rail shooters, as well as the fantastic Wii version of RE4. Sure, you are right: traditional gamers may lean towards 360 or PS3 rather than the Wii. But most such gamers do not own only one console and this where Nintendo's strategy - as debatable as it may be - worked. A lot of traditional gamers got themselves either a 360 or a PS3 and a Wii. That is not to mention the new core gamers, who are interested in titles like Wii Fit and Big Brain Academy. And as a traditional gamer, I very much appreciate those games, as well.

As for the consoles being marketed as toys to have fun with, I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Neither Sony nor Microsoft saw the potential of a new market segment that was just after some fun rather than souped up graphics beasts you could play Gears of War or Killzone on. To you and me those games are fun, of course. But to the majority of the population, these games go way above their head. This is where Nintendo was spot on: they opted out of the hardware race and included a fun factor that you simply couldn't get with the other consoles. You sort of can now, which just proves Ninty right. Why else are MS and Sony rushing to promote their consoles as family friendly these days? Just look at recent marketing campaigns. Sony is emphasizing LBP and Eye Pet while MS is focussing on Lips and Natal. Notice a shift in focus? Sure, that is where the new core gamer lives nowadays and that is where the money is.

As far as arrogance is concerned, this is an aspect that is not very tangible. And you are quite right: Nintendo was super-arrogant in the days of NES/SNES. And, to an extent, they still are. I know for a fact that Ninendo prioritize printing of their first party titles to third party games, so they can ship sufficient volumes to retailers at the third parties' expense. But take it from me: Sony was very difficult to deal with for a journalist for most of the ten years I am in the business. And that is the opinion of the majority of game journalists I know (and I know quite a few after all those years).

And a last few words about a possible PS4 and its CPU. I am not sure whether Sony really can order a custom Cell-based chip from IBM. After all, if they had shown any interest, IBM would not have discontinued the line. Obviously, I spoke to IBM about this and they appeared to say that Sony was not interested in another Cell chip, which is why they announced the end of the line.

Now, why would they not include an upgraded Cell in the PS4, when they said they would in the past and when the advantages would have been plenty? Of course, they could just choose another chip, perhaps by another manufacturer, but this will cost more money than simply advancing on what they invested into before. Also, developers who invested money and resources into developing for the Cell can start from scratch with a possible PS4, which a lot of them simply cannot afford, especially in today's economic climate. All I said was that one possible explanation could be that Sony no longer intend to bring a PS4 to market. In my mind, that might not be likely, but it is a possibility nonetheless and might make some sense.

"It's funny, though, that you think comparative statements about the console portfolios are "bullshit", then you go make just such a statement yourself, about Wii clearly losing."

The "bullshit" was a direct answer to ur 2 statements.Cause 80 % of the games are on both consoles it doenst make sense to downplay the ps3 software library and at the same time praise the 360 one.As i said i understand that you as a journalist have to give a general advice.

"Here are some 360 exclusives of note (not necessarily just the best selling or highest rated games, but games I find recommendable for a number of reasons)"

And thats why the list doesnt matter, cause its subjective - i too can go on and make lists of the games i like on the consoles and thats what i meant with personal preference.Thats why i posted the number of titles on GameRankings over 90% cause it should be the most objective way to compare the software library of both consoles.

"But if I had to weigh those two portfolios up, I strongly believe that the 360 simply has the wider portfolio."

See - i have no problem with this statement, it's your Point of View and it's ok. But what isn't ok are such hyperbole statements as this"But I still worry most about the PS3 portfolio and with good reason." for example.

"The PS3 is getting most of the exclusives from Japan, which is good, of course."

Aside from Sony made / published titles there are only Yakuza and FFvXIII that are high-profile exclusives. It just doesn't make sense anymore to make a exclusive game, cause they are so close together in sales.

"But where are the big exclusives from Epic Games, Rockstar and the like?"

Ok 360 got the GTA Chronicles but PS3 will get a new game (Agent).The sentence has no value - u can just flip it over to "where are the big exclusives from Insomniac, Rockstar and the like?Aside from the point, that u seem to be missing, that Sony has a lot more "development power" and so needs less games from outside studios.

"And with Molyneux as regional head of Microsoft Game Studios in Europe now, that territory's most popular designer is a first party to Microsoft and its console. Not unimportant."

Microsoft has Molyneux on his side. I get he is popular (i think he is overrated but doesn't matter here ;) ). I could counter this with saying that Sony has Guerilla Games, Sony Liverpool, Sony London, Sony Cambridge, Evolution Studios and Big Big Studios here.Don't start to compare InHouse Development between them cause Microsoft will loose cause of the sheer amount of studios Sony have.

So you say to a traditional gamer "get a 360 instead of PS3". So what do you say if a traditional gamer ask you if he should get a 360, PS3 or Wii ?You really can't recommend the Wii cause it does have the worst line-up of the 3 for him and you know this. And its not nearly as close as PS3 v 360.

"After all, if they had shown any interest, IBM would not have discontinued the line"

They discontinued it on their own. They don't want to develop the Cell further. Do you really think if Sony came by "here are ur $$$ dollars now make a new Cell with us" - IBM would say no ?Aside from that, as i already said, they could make a new Cell without IBM.

"Obviously, I spoke to IBM about this and they appeared to say that Sony was not interested in another Cell chip, which is why they announced the end of the line."

To whom did you speak ?

"Now, why would they not include an upgraded Cell in the PS4, when they said they would in the past and when the advantages would have been plenty?"

Why didn't they build the Emotion Engine 2 (CPU in PS2) for PS3 ?Why didn't Microsoft build an Intel CPU in the 360 ?The only console that had the same hardware as it's predecessor is the Wii. Also keep in mind that they likely have to go with nVidia again to get bc in Hardware.

"Also, developers who invested money and resources into developing for the Cell can start from scratch with a possible PS4, which a lot of them simply cannot afford, especially in today's economic climate."

Developers started from scratch in nearly every generation. Sure Cell 2 would have advantages and Ps4 could end with one - we don't know.

"All I said was that one possible explanation could be that Sony no longer intend to bring a PS4 to market."

It just don't make sense to say that they plan to reach profitability as late as year ending March 2011 only to bail out of the market a little later.

Note: I apologize for the cursing in advance - I generally frown upon such things.

"what do you say if a traditional gamer ask you if he should get a 360, PS3 or Wii ?You really can't recommend the Wii cause it does have the worst line-up of the 3 for him and you know this."

I've stayed mostly silent on this matter, but I have to call absolute bullshit on this. I'm a long-time gamer who owns both an XBox 360 and a Wii. My Wii has, by far, more software than the other two (roughly 70 Wii titles, versus 30 on the 360). The problem is that closed-minded people refuse to open their freaking eyes and see exactly what is in front of them. That, or they piss, moan, and cry about what the Wii is getting, and constantly troll forums with "This would be SO MUCH BETTER if it were on PS3/360!"

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of hearing "The core gamer wouldn't LIKE this system as much" - we hear it from asshole developers, from childish gamers, and from douchebag marketers. However, there's a wonderful selection of titles on the system nowadays, from the epics like Prime Trilogy or Rune Factory to arcade-inspired fun like House of the Dead: Overkill and Geometry Wars: Galaxies. This doesn't count numerous arcade compilations, such as SNK Arcade Classics, the KoF Orochi Collection, and Metal Slug Anthology mind you. The system is also a hotbed for point and click titles (see: Sam & Max, Season One, Zack & Wiki, Monkey Island), a genre that was thought to be long dead. Then there are the horror games (Obscure, Cursed Mountain) - a genre that doesn't seem to be very common on either HD console. This isn't even counting the absolutely quirky (ex: Munchables, Rabbids Go Home, Help Wanted), the more generally appealing (Boom Blox, Wii Sports Resort, Endless Ocean), or the Nintendo mainstays (New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Punch-Out!, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn).

The system is just as viable as the other two, on most fronts (I'll admit that it's lacking in FPS titles). However, all anyone ever hears is "Wii doesn't have the games!" "Wii is full of shovelware!" "Wii is kiddy/casual!" Frankly, this needs to stop. It's been three years. The system's gained a respectable library. However, the "hardcore" refuse to see this, because they keep mistaking the forest for the trees.

Of course, you could be using the term "traditional gamer" in the sense that we're talking the frat-boy type that only plays Madden and Call of Duty. By that description, I guess you would be absolutely correct. ;)

If that's your opinion it's fine but it's subjective that's why i cited GameRankings so many times. You may find ur listed games to be great but that doesn't count for the majority. And it doesn't only lack fps (if that wouldn't be enough) where are the Racing games, Western RPGs, 3D Bmu's, Open World games, not dumbed down Sport games ?I will admit that it's great as a local multiplayer console though.

The issue with GameRankings is that the site lacks a comprehensive view. It's strictly professional reviews, meaning that it's what the journalists decide. A better source would be Metacritic, which at least offers a comprehensive "user score" system that accompanies the press. This becomes especially important when you consider that a number of sites and/or publications tend to be more lenient toward HD titles than Wii titles (there really shouldn't be 2-3 point discrepancies between the two averages).

As for the genre question, you got me there. ;) The only ones I can really explain would be 3D Beat-em-ups (No More Heroes, Spyborgs, MadWorld, etc.), and sports tend to be hit or miss (Tiger Woods, NHL 2K10 vs. MLB, Madden 10).

WRPGs are a rarity, as most developers tend to port straight from PC, leaving the less-powerful Wii with no options. Open world games, no devs really tried - devs just gave the typical "lol Wii two Gamecubes" responses on that one. Racers, eh.. There have been a few fun arcade-y titles, but most of it has been Need For Speed Are We Done Milking This Yet. :)

Personally, I'd love to see how a realistic racer would work on Wii (I've been addicted to Forza since I got my 360) - but they tend to be first party efforts on all the major consoles.

Of course, I'd also like to see the 360 get a good Mario-ish game... Banjo-Kazooie didn't cut it for me.

Look at all the Sony fanboys crying like a bunch of little bitches when their beloved company make stupid decisions that has cost them things like losing the value of the core processor. It seems Sony fanboys don't have a grasp of logic and business. Don't worry about those neogayfers, falafel, they're too busy lining to suck Sony's dick that they don't have any time look at the facts.

So what if it's speculation, it doesn't take rocket science to see that Sony is going down the shitter. They are constantly failing everything! LOL!

Interesting article. But could it not be that the abandonment of the Cell architecture for future consoles by Sony is nothing more than a strategic shift? Perhaps Sony decided that a different architecture would be more suitable for future consoles. I understand that Sony has lost a lot of money this generation but I really do not think that Sony will abandon the console market. The lifecycle of this generations consoles will probably last much longer than the previous ones. Both Sony as Microsoft do not seem very eager to release a new console after the traditional 5 year cyclus. Instead both console makers are trying to prolong the lifcecycle of their current consoles with new motion based interface technology.

As long as Nintendo has good sales they will also not bring out a new console untill it becomes necessary because of bad sales or a new console releaesed by the competition. Just look at the DS, the ds has been in the market for a long time, but no new handheld gaming device has yet been announced by Nintendo because of lack of true competition. I am also very curious about the vitality sensor Nintendo is planning to bring on the market next year. Some remarks by Nintendo executives suggest that the vitality sensor could be much bigger than we think it is. If this is the case, and Nintendo succeeds in creating another hype, it would be all the more reason to believe that Nintendo will not bring out a new console in 2010 or early 2011, despite what Pachter is saying. (The great software lineup by Nintendo for 2010 also suggests that sales for Wii consoles will probably be better than this year, decreasing the chance of a early new console by Nintendo, unless Nintendo feels it has to react on the moves made by Sony and Microsoft).

I think that Sony will bring out a new console,because the playstation is still a very strong brandname, and Nintendo has proved in the past, that even coming third place, does not mean being unprofitable, but executives at Sony will grab the chance to rethink and redefine their strategy, especially now the influcence of an icon like Ken Kutaragi has lessened. The next playstation will probably be nowhere near as expensive to produce for as the current playstation has been and the good thing for Sony is that they are already experimenting with a lot of the technology, that could make a future console a bigger success than the PS3. Sony is already experimenting with motion control technology this generation, which is said to be at least on par with Nintendo's Wiimote.We will see the results next year. Sony is also betting big on sterescopic 3d. The current playstation wil probably make use of this technology during this lifecycle. The experiences with stereoscopic 3d could be used to improve upon the experience with a new console. And last but not least, Sony should take advantage of their experiences with online gaming. Sony charges nothing for online this generation, but it should do so in a next generation (of course only in exchange for a high quality online experience). Sorry for the very very long post guys. ;-)

Not sure what is sadder in all of this...The complete spatter of slanted misinformation put out there by the blogger or the fact that there are still some blathering sheep who are reading it and commenting ignoring the fact that it has already been refuted and proven false.Also glaring is the omission of any kind of retraction or clarification though of course to be honest... is it really surprising?

I agree with you.Wireless controller for the PS3 system provides the most intuitive game play experience with pressure sensors in each action button and the inclusion of the highly sensitive SIXAXIS™ motion sensing technology. Each hit, crash and explosion is more realistic when the user feels the rumble right in the palm of their hand. Wholesale PS3 accessories from China.

"What a stupid article. Guess this is what Nintendo fans do when they only have one major release to play during the holidays."

loooooooooooooooooooooolROFL LMAO LOL

this statement by anonymous sums it up perfectly!

I couldn't possibly agree more anonymous!

thank you!

Hi guys its me IALS! remember me;)? I have been keeping an eye on this blog since its early days where it was primarily about revolution speculation. I have been around since those early days.

But anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I have read almost every single article on this blog and it is with great pleasure that I can confirm and expose this blogs author as the blatant Sony hater/basher that he is, as depicted, which is reflected by every single article he has ever posted about the topic "Sony"! and boy did he bash them! But don't take my word for it just scroll back through pages and see for yourself if you don't believe me. And him getting banned on a site like neogaf is a great relieve for me as a former contributor to this blog who was to subject to unwarranted insults and defamation by the blog author and his armada of loyal fanboy minions.

Fnnily enough, he even accused me of being a Sony agent! No joke!!!!

After all these years of ridiculous and not to mention unfair Sony bashing I have been witness to, I have come to the conclusion that this blogs author must have serious personal issues with Sony. It seems odd and I don't know exactly what happened but I strongly asume that all of his job applications to sony must have been turned down when he was looking for a new challenge after loosing his job at RTL 2 (the infamous titchannel;-)) and all this drama seemingly acts as his personal revenge campaign against Sony....;-)

Anyway..on a serious note tho - regarding the ps3 - Sure the ps3 was overprized when it launched..sure the first year wasn't exactly overwhelming softwarewise ..etc etc... but hey, the ps3 slim and the excellent titles that are getting released easily make up for the lackluster year imo.

And btw as biene meier correclty pointed out, comparing ps3 and 360 line ups is totally besides the point coz no matter how you twist or turn it both will end up having VASTLY SUPERIOR line ups than Wii could ever hope for. I mean what is there on Wii ? New 2 d super mario bros?sorry but just... lol!;)

But seriously, jokes aside, I know what I'm talking about. I am part of gaming history after all. I own all the consoles since the NES days! I have been playing games for roughly 20 years on a constant basis. I don't own a 360 but I have both a Wii and a PS3 and to tell you the truth my Wii has been collecting dust ever since I finished Okami, (Prime 3) and Galaxy over a year ago.. the only (three)two must have titles on Wii imo btw.

..I mean, lets face it people there is just nothing worth playing on Wii, at least nothing really outstanding.nothing that can compete with the competition... And there are almost no titles that I'm looking forward to either I'm afraid except for Metroid M maybe(that one looks promising). The competition totally squashes Wiis line up! What can I say? That's just the way it is...

I mean c'mon who needs another 2 d mario bros???Is this your awnser to epic titles like GTA4, Uncharted, Alan Wake,Assasins Creed,Fallout etc etc?? I'm still waiting for the first mature content Nintendo title for grown ups!

Concerning Mister Falafel:Look, you gotta understand this guy ain't a real hardcore gamer to begin with. The blog author is one of those analyst types who don't really bother taking the amount of time needed to sit down and play the systems and games they have an opinion about. They spend more time talking about games than actually playing them. They don't know what is good. They don't know their stuff.I mean could it be more obvious!?!

Judging by the outrageous claims he makes that couldn't be further from the truth? Sony dropping out of console biz? lol????

Again, I think the blog author doesn't have the faintest clue what the competition has in store otherwise he wouldn't be so quick to write Sony off. He's just plain wrong. He doesn't get it!Sony is alive and kicking. I'm 100% sure he doesn't sit down and invest time in excellent games like Bioshock, GTA4, MGS4 or Resi 5 to see the difference as far as production values, gameplay, story telling and graphics are concerned between outstanding next gen games and low res last gen Wii waggle trash.

and no, it's not about what's hip or all of that bs he is making up.

It's about shutting your trap and sitting down and playing the highly acclaimed games on the system he is bashing in order to fully grasp what the buzz is about.

And spare me the HD crap. Wii fanboys please stop with your HD excuses already. All the great ps3 and 360 games would still be better than the majority of wii trash that hits the shelves week by week even without high defintion. It doesn't make sense for Hardcore gamers to buy 95% of the Wii crap when 360 ps3 stuff is bigger and better. It doesn't make sense. Is it really so hard to understand?

And I'm saying this as a life long Nintendo supporter btw just so you know!

Oh and concerning PS4 !I have one little calculation for the blog author:

You still talk trash IALS and its obvious what you said about Fal is an attack on him personally or trying to get his attention as per usual.

And what he says about the possiblity about Sony not developing another system may possibly be true. Who knows. Sony are not in a very good financial position right now and investing a lot into another system may not be very logical, especially to their shareholders.

The gaming market is one of the most difficult industries and even though you may have your business plan all mapped out you can never be too certain what will happen. You say that avbout a lot of businesses but I think the gaming market is quite a unique scenario.

But what you say about Wii's software is true. Most of its a major disappointment :(

The reason why Nintendo can't win the console war in the long term is because they won't be able to shake off their kiddy image.

People automatically associate the term Nintendo with kiddy sort of like Disney. Sorry but that's just the way it is..and that's an enormous psychological barrier that shoudn't be underestimated despite their current success (mainly) through innovation. I mean isn't it innovation what kept Nintendo in the game this gen after all??

But remember the competition isn't just resting on their laurels. They are already ajusting their business strategies to meet the needs of new demographics, copy innovation and even improve on it.

Sony with its playstation brand on the other hand has a much broader appeal. It's an attractive brand to adults and children alike. And as far as Microsoft is concerned, the one major difference between Micrsofts Xbox and Sonys Playstation is that Xbox leans more towards the hardcore gamer as the name indicates."Xbox" sounds quite hardcore doesn't it!?! It's too "hardcore" for children and even for casual gamers imo which again reinforces the fact that Sony has the broadest appeal of them all at the end of the day.

Thus it's just a matter of time until Sony will regain the top spot. I know it might sound fanboyish to you but it is my firm belief that Sony is destined to win because it has created most attractive brand. Again, as I mentioned Nintendo is simply too kiddy at the end of the day and Microsoft too hardcore whereas Sony has positioned itself right in the middle.

I'm pretty sure that sooner or later Nintendo will end up as a software only publisher. How many generations it will take however until Nintendo drops out of hardware biz remains unawnsered at this point of course. But I'm willing to bet that it will eventually unfold like that.

So, to conclude Sony is destined to win as long as they play to their strenghts, overcome the current hurdles and most importantly, learn from their ps3 mistakes (unless of course they screw it up big time which I don't think will happen)

i love the whole "playstation has the broadest appeal" nonsense. brilliant "ials".

to whom are you referring to? who is it, exactly, that thinks of "kiddy" when they hear "nintendo"? the 12-28 year old ass holes that talk trash about my mother on xbox live (and troll stupidass forums like NeoGAF crying day and night)?

its weird that this "core market" seems to be all you see, and you somehow believe represents the largest population. how many people in the 40-90 year old age bracket purchase "playstation"? how many of them see "nintendo" and think "kiddy"? Probably not-- you know-- the _dozens_of_millions_ of them who BOUGHT WII FIT AND PLAY IT. AS CIVIL ADULTS. TO BETTER THEIR LIVES.

you and i both know that playstation and xbox360 have the exact same (overwhelmingly) primary market. 12-28 year old little boys LIKE YOU.

it's funny-- when adults who *i* know hear "playstation" they think "over-complicated murder simulator that plays blu-ray movies (whatever those are good for)".

when they hear "nintendo" they think "oh, that fun bowling/tennis game... i should get one of those because i understand it".

broader appeal my ass. you're such a fucking tool, ials. get a clue you stupid fuck.

you know where sony makes up for it? all their game studios. they make money selling software.

seems to me thats a recipe for sony to go 3rd party... not nintendo. boy, if sony ported their games to 360 and PC, they'd make even more money off of the software, and not even have to worry about trying to dig themselves out of a multi-billion dollar loss accrued from poor hardware strategy execution.

nobody with any kind of logical mind could ever believe that sony is "destined" (whatever the fuck that means) to be the market leader and that nintendo will "eventually" go 3rd party. none of that makes any sense whatsoever.

and you cry and whine and bitch about people accusing you of being a sony employee. your "opinions" (which you believe, somehow, to be statement of facts) sound more like crafty and dodgy marketing techniques to me. no wonder you get accused.

i wish i knew why i even bothered responding to you. you're so amazingly ridiculous, that it shouldn't even merit a response. this is exactly why everyone else here ignores you. you're fucking worthless and you contribute nothing. go find some other site to ruin with your ludicrous filth, you fucking retard. nobody-- and i mean NOBODY-- wants you here. get a fucking life.

look, that's a typical sucked dry nintendo fangirl response! not surprising at all!Whining and resorting to childish insults! that's what fangirls do when they're confronted with facts. Angry sad lil fangirls who got nothing to play except for 2d mario and wii bowling.

LOL

This fangirls reaction only proves that I hit the nail on the head big time!

@ the ninty fangirl Ooooh my sad lil fan girl..sorry, I didn't mean to hurt you!I know,The truth hurts... I feel your pain!It's tough to be a nintendo fangirl nowadays..:-)again " I Guess this is what Nintendo fans do when they only have one major release to play during the holidays." ...namely hating on sane people who confront them with REALITY because they like to remain in their warm and fuzzy wii wii resort fantasy world.

Look, you're just one of those lil sad, angry, jealous and not to mention frustrated nintendo fanboys who can't let go of their childhood fantasies and grow up.

No, instead you want to stay strapped in your colourful lil kiddy donkeymonkey pokeynintendogs fantasy world where you have your flowers, peaches and bananas to waggle around with while pretending that you're the elite ones and the most innovative keeping it real!

Because I'm confronting you with uncomfortable facts that cause you're lil kiddy world to collapse.

Basically, I'm just showing you that there is something much richer and better outside of your lil sweet peachcastle microcosm that you fangirlies have entrenched yaselfs in.

That's why you hate me so much. Because you don't have the balls to step out of that peachcastle. You're afraid of the unknwon.

And you know that what I say is true. You know that you got nothing to play except for your kiddy lowr rez waggle trash that noone gives a fuck about except for you sad fangirls(and some parents who buy that crap for their 4 year old little kids. ). You anonymous are an extremely frustrated individual!

Trust me it's nothing other than you're inferiority complex that let's you loose your temper and resort to childish insults. You're boiling with rage ,you're mad you've nothing to play. And I hate to break it to ya mate but you're quite gay actually.

What's so great about civilized societies is that we can exchange ideas and have a civil discourse over topics such as this. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

If there is a flaw in the research and information, then make it an obligation to correct said mistake, instead launching ad-hominem attacks. The type of behavior and communication that NeoGAF users have exhibited here speaks volumes about how they handle matters like this. This is the internet equivalent of those Muhammad cartoon reactions.

Anonymous guys above me couldn't of said it better but forget replying to unreality as he only seeks attention as he has ADD, hence y he speaks and yells out so much garbage.

I have nothing much to play, wii is full of a lot of crap but the fact is the hardcore gamers are just a small minority. Nintendo are very smart n very profitable company.

Sony have lost so much money, the brand isn't even worth much anymore so I don't what ure talking about. Not only that they are going to have something very solid to convince shareholders that they are safe with their money for a ps4.

And to neo-GAYF; they are a bunch of tryhards who think they are cool. They even have a stupid bitch who is one of their regulars, tells u something. I wouldn't even acknowledge them on this site of I was Fal.

"I'm still waiting for the first mature content Nintendo title for grown ups!"

I believe you are mistaking third-parties for Nintendo. I don't remember Nintendo saying they will provide any "mature content" for you. Besides, they make games that are accessible for all ages.

"production values, gameplay, story telling and graphics are concerned between outstanding next gen games and low res last gen Wii waggle trash."

"All the great ps3 and 360 games would still be better than the majority of wii trash that hits the shelves week by week even without high defintion."

Contradict much? First you attack the Wii for being "low-gen, low-res," then you're saying 360 and PS3 can be better without high-definition, even though the visual presentation of those consoles are contingent on high-definition.

"The reason why Nintendo can't win the console war in the long term is because they won't be able to shake off their kiddy image."

Nintendo is reaching a broader audience with their products, and it seems to be working for them with all the profits they've made and consoles they've sold. The hardcore market is relatively small compared to the casual market, so it doesn't make sense for Nintendo to just pander to them. You may not like it, but you don't speak for the gaming industry, IALS. You are just a consumer, one who spends alot of time here complaining and attacking the author of this blog, thinking this is the only way Nintendo will ever listen to you. Also, nobody really "wins" or "loses" in console wars, and it wouldn't make sense because markets, such as gaming, are dependent on competition and variety. Companies, such as Sega and Atari, can drop out, but console wars are ongoing and it doesn't look like Nintendo is in deep red at the moment, even though you think otherwise.

Sony promised that Cell would be the end-all be-all of processors. They'd be flexible enough to use in all situations, from servers to game consoles, to whatever else suits your fancy. That clearly didn't happen, as the Cell's architecture is ill-suited for little more than a file/web server (don't shoot the messenger, here. Developers have and always will bitch about PS3 development because of that thing and shared RAM).

Since the demand is far lower than expected outside of game consoles, IBM will drop the line. Makes sense on a business level, really.

Didn't Sony want to try to make the PS3 last around 10 years instead of the usual 5ish? They may not be trying to upgrade the cell because the design would probably be outdated by then anyway. If they are going to make another console we probably won't be hearing about it for a few more years, I think.

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