(This message last edited 17 Jan 2004 to clarify details and remove one font from the list.)

Bonus fonts bundled only with the Creative Suite - and not with the individual programs sold separately - are the *entire* Warnock Pro Opticals family. Additionally, the entire Brioso Pro opticals family is offered as an online registration incentive for North American customers, as one of several choices of bonus goodies. If you get both, that's an extra 74 fonts! If you buy the applications separately, you still get 137 fonts, mind you.

Below are the fonts you get in both "standard" and "premium" versions of the Creative Suite (the professional edition does not add more fonts). All of this, including the registration bonus, applies to educational purchasers as well as the regular retail versions of the applications.

Families represented:
(scroll down further if you want to see the list of individual fonts)

Thanks, Thomas. This makes the Chicken Suite definitely worth it to me, especially since I don't have InDesign yet and I'm so looking forward to liberate myself from the confounded Quark XPress Passport hardware dongle.

Aargh! And I just bought the entire Brioso Pro family for a project I'm working on... It is a beautiful font, that's for sure. I especially like the light poster version, and the large number of variations on many letters.

I just went and edited my original post to clarify that Brioso Pro doesn't actually come on the CD set: when you register online you can download it. Basically it's a registration incentive. Unfortunately it is available only to US/Canada customers. Sorry for any incorrect expectations this may have caused.

You may remember that I have commented previously (on the InDesign list) about differences in Font options between N. America and Europe. This was based on the fact that in Europe we can only get whole font families. Consequently I could not fill in the gaps of the trimmed down Adobe Caslon Pro that came with InD 2 (it was missing the Bold) without buying the whole set. Now we have this Brioso Pro difference. Why? Are we less literate over here :-)

Well, with the packages vs. single fonts thing, please understand that we run our European distribution through a third party. So there is some per-unit overhead in adding single font sales. Unfortunately, western Europe buys a fraction of the fonts that US/Canada do, so the return isn't there.

I guess it would help if you could go out and buy one of every font package. :)

As for the Brioso thing, I expect it's related to our registration system (though I am curious and intend to find out). On the other hand, are you sure you didn't do something to really tick off some Adobe executive?

Seriously, it is very regrettable that we are not making equally good offers to our European customers. We do value your business, and even wish there was more of it.

Thanks for your good wishes. You at least have my business - and this fonts offer will probably have persuaded me to upgrade to the full CS suite sooner rather than later (even without the Brioso (although from the pdf I downloaded, it is a VERY nice font set)).

Sorry to say it - but I think it is about time that some Adobe executive
*did* get ticked off!

This is by no means the first time that Adobe have managed to differentiate
between the world (except the US & Cananda) and your home patch to a
considerable degree. If it were only timing issues (having to wait a few
weeks to get something already released in the US) then that is annoying
enough. If it were only the considerably higher prices that are common
(i.e. USD = GBP) again - that is just how things are. When it gets to
changing the specifications of the product and 'extras' it is beyond
acceptable. (I do understand that licensing issues may be a problem in some
cases, but not, I think, here.)

Your personal appreciation of European customers may be strong - but it
often feels marginal in much of the US software industry. In this case it
distinctly feels that it simply does not exist.

First, I must say that there may be plenty of issues that I am not familiar with in this area. There are certainly some issues that I do know of that make it harder or less financially viable for US companies to treat their European customers on equivalent terms to their US and Canadian customers. I don't know the issues around the registration incentive in particular, and I will try to find out.

That being said, I tend to think that the United States as a country has an amazing national egocentricity, and it clearly carries over to the software industry to some degree.

If you think things are bad in Europe, try shopping for software down here in New Zealand! Last year, I tried to purchase a new edition of a program (not an Adobe program) that had been released in the US and despite being continually reassuured by their Australian agent that they were doing all they could, I got referred to numerous retailers, told lots of untruths, and had to wait for about six months before I finally was sent a copy.

To add insult to injury, if I'd been of a mind to use a pirated version, I could have had it about five months earlier. Given that kind of poor customer service and the better service the pirates seem to offer, I'm not suprised the pirates are thriving!

I certainly sympathize with the problems. I believe that international software distribution licensing depends a lot upon the quirks of dealing with third parties in countries where, everything from business customs and local laws to financial resources and product availability all conspire to work against the consumer.

I don't claim to know anything about real-world software product distribution. But just thinking about it for a moment, one solution for many end users might be -- if it were possible to overhaul the entire distribution scheme -- for local distributors to have exclusive distribution only for local mail order or in-store placement of physical product, along with product support for just what they sell; but that downloads and international mail order could still be easily, economically and/or legally obtained from the same distribution streams as are readily available to Americans, with support through these forums or with contact with Adobe USA. It might also prompt the local distributors to take a more aggressive marketing, sales and support track to the benefit of their local customer base. On the other hand, such a scheme might backfire, and the local distributors might simply give up the market rather than compete. I'm sure that there are many factors that I've overlooked...

But at least the non-USA located end user would have the comfort level of knowing that he doesn't have to wait weeks or months for products. Or pay some hefty premiums to obtain the software.

Apologies for dragging this topic further away from the original post....

I am dismayed for the current un-ability (?) of Adobe for delivering Brioso family (and Warnock Opticals) to us, European customers (and other non US countries) as a online registration enticing.

I would suggest you too, please, to knock on the right doors to have it somehow solved as soon as possible.

First, you could include a coupon or a notice in local Adobe web pages to send some purchase proof and registration somewhere, local Adobe representatives, or to Technical Support, and get a CD with the fonts in return, I would not even mind to pay some costs for duplicating and shipping.
(It is be done with Acrobat and Illustrator patches before in my country).

Second, I would wish it had been planned well in advance, and knowing this apparent difficulty with non-USA versions, directly include them in the CD, after all, the plan was to get registrations online, right? So do not deprive us of the gift/reward if you cannot implement the registration scheme.

Thirdly, Is not possible to have a online request form for downloading the fonts, after the non-USA serial numbers, identity, etc. have been verified, from some password protected web page?

Surely, as we in Europe are paying far higher prices for Adobe prods including the Creative Suite, whatever the US is getting we should get it also. We should not be paying a higher price and get less.

I read different things about the fonts included with this version, In indesign Digest #203, indesign@lists.blueworld.com, for instance, I could read that the Brioso Pro family could not be downloaded outside the USA and Canada but that all other fonts were included.

Actually, if one gets just InDesign CS and not the entire Creative Suite, there are 67 bundled fonts. If one gets all the individual Suite apps without buying the suite, there are 138 fonts. I will post a separate message listing the InDesign CS font bundle, in the InDesign forums.

No, I'm afraid not. They are an incentive to buy the whole suite instead of the individual applications.

See my other posting for a more detailed explanation of the fonts bundled with the individual apps. If you upgrade individual apps you'll basically get everything except the Warnock and Brioso families.

The extra fonts you get with whole suite seem to make up for the fact that you will not get any printed manuals for any of the applications if you order the suite as opposed to individual upgrades for each application, which do come with printed manuals.

Wow, Thomas - wonderful! And to think I have been contemplating buying Warnock Pro very recently - saved by the bell! :-) Of course, I _could_ gripe about having bought Minion Pro for 259 bucks a year ago, but I'll try to take it like a man.

Well that sucks, I own Acrobat 6 Pro, I will upgrade to ID, AI, PS to CS versions and will have to activate PSCS, but I can't get the extra fonts. I have more apps than someone who orders the 'standard' CS Suite, but they still get the extra fonts. Guess that's what you get for being a loyal customer for twelve years.

I still think Adobe ought to offer the free additional fonts to anyone who has to everyone who has to 'activate', they claim that is what the additional fonts are for and can only receive them after activation.

Maybe you might want to bring this matter up at a meeting where this type of stuff is decided.

Before you decide not to buy one of the suites, try to see a demonstration of them. Version Cue (plus the fonts) make the suites a steal even if you have several apps (me too). Version Cue is only sold in the suites. I saw a demo at an InDesign Users Group meeting Monday evening.

Version Cue allows, for example, Photoshop images to include several 'versions' of a photo (different duos, or with different layer styles applied, etc), which you can decide between at any time. So if your client changes their mind, you just tell version cue to move another version to current in the Photoshop image and it updates InDesign automatically at the same time. That's just one thing it does, even for the single user.

So, even though I already bought Acrobat 6 Pro, I'm going for the suite. Between Version Cue, the fonts and GoLive, the suite is cheap. Not even counting the updates of Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign.

Let's see. You get the same font package bonus whether you buy the Standard or Premium edition (I keep on wanting to say "Professional" too). Plus Version Cue. The upgrade to Standard that includes InDesign, Illustrator, Photshop is $549 from your existing Photoshop. Add GoLive and Acrobat Pro and it's just $749.

Even if the Standard upgrade were to cost a bit more than individual upgrades for ID, AI, and PS, you also get all of the extra fonts and Version Cue in that upgrade.

Unless other factors are conspiring against purchasing the CS Suite, I just don't see where the problem is.