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Topic: Cabinet scraper vs. scraping plane? (Read 4380 times)

I've been giving my card scraper a lot more work recently, and am considering upgrading due to the fatigue my fingers get from bending the card for long periods of time. I've been trying to read up on the difference between cabinet scrapers (basically just a holder for the blade/card) and scraping planes, but I'm still uncertain about whether the plane is basically just a souped up version of the cabinet scraper, or whether there are reasons/applications why someone would choose one over the other (other than size/sole footprint).

And then in terms of the different scraping plane options, the one difference seems to be that the LV is engineered to bend the blade slightly, while the LN keeps the blade straight. Also, does anyone know what the advantage/application of the toothed blades for the LN are?

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York Pitch will handle most tear-out prone wood well. Middle Pitch is for the most difficult woods. Using one of these frogs will eliminate the need for scrapers, in most cases.Will not fit other makes of planes.

Edward, I work with woods that have highly interlocked grain, and I never use my Stanley #112 or #80. In the past I would have first turned to a half pitch plane (60 degree cutting angle) in other BD (e.g. HNT Gordon) or BU (Veritas BUS) mode, but these days I prefer a BD Common pitch plane where I can set a closed up chipbreaker. For example, the Veritas Custom #4 has a 42 degree frog.

I do use card scrapers (or, as they are referred to in Australia and the UK, cabinet scrapers). However, these are generally reserved for small areas or curves.

In addition to saving fatigue in your hands, a scraping plane also helps keep the surface level. The purpose of bending the blade is to focus the scraping and prevent the corners from digging in. Grinding a radius on the corners of the blade has the same effect.

The toothed blade is intended for prep for veneering with hide glue, I believe.

York Pitch will handle most tear-out prone wood well. Middle Pitch is for the most difficult woods. Using one of these frogs will eliminate the need for scrapers, in most cases.Will not fit other makes of planes.

Edward, I work with woods that have highly interlocked grain, and I never use my Stanley #112 or #80. In the past I would have first turned to a half pitch plane (60 degree cutting angle) in other BD (e.g. HNT Gordon) or BU (Veritas BUS) mode, but these days I prefer a BD Common pitch plane where I can set a closed up chipbreaker. For example, the Veritas Custom #4 has a 42 degree frog.

I do use card scrapers (or, as they are referred to in Australia and the UK, cabinet scrapers). However, these are generally reserved for small areas or curves.

Edward, I also had a 55 degree frog in a LN 4 1/2. It was not enough to prevent tear out, and it was a bear to push. The cutting angle needs to be a minimum of 60 degrees when using high cutting angles. This makes them even more work to push. A scraper plane is even more so. When I mastered setting the chipbreaker, I replaced the frog with a 45 degree one. The chipbreaker controls tear out, and the lower cutting angle makes it easier to push.

Edward, I also had a 55 degree frog in a LN 4 1/2. It was not enough to prevent tear out, and it was a bear to push. The cutting angle needs to be a minimum of 60 degrees when using high cutting angles. This makes them even more work to push. A scraper plane is even more so. When I mastered setting the chipbreaker, I replaced the frog with a 45 degree one. The chipbreaker controls tear out, and the lower cutting angle makes it easier to push.

I had the LN scraper plane for many years, and never really got to like using it. The blade does not flex- you are right about this- but you sharpen it with a camber so the result is the same. I do have the LV cabinet scraper and much prefer it. Cheaper, easier to set up, and easier to use.

However, most of the time I use a simple hand scraper. I hold it differently to most people I've seen- my hands get less fatigued, my fingertips don't burn up as fast and I get more power. I found a picture of Paul Sellers using his the same way.

My preference is the lowest possible cutting angle (for LN this would be 45 degrees) and used with the chipbreaker.

This combination would produce the best results with the least physical effort.

Keep in mind that the 4 1/2 is a wide plane (2 3/8" wide blade). The plane becomes progressively harder to push as the cutting angle increases (as the frog angle increases). Waxing the sole of the plane helps greatly to reduce friction, making the plane easier to push, but you have to renew the wax constantly.

If you really want a high angle plane (perhaps, to not have to set the chipbreaker, which takes time to master), then go to a narrower plane. At the minimum I would not go above a #4. In fact, I purchased a #3 (1 3/4" blade). This was much easier to push, but a 55 degree frog did not offer the performance needed to avoid tear out on the interlocked grain of the local West Australian woods. A 45 degree frog using the chipbreaker did to the trick.

Just to emphasise the above, my go to smoother is a Veritas Custom #4 with a 42 degree frog. This is used with a chipbreaker. In addition to the lower cutting angle, this plane also uses the PM-V11 blade, which hones and cuts much better than the A2 steel of LN (my LN planes also have PM-V11 blades).

Thanks @derekcohenLet me start with the goal...I want to end up with flat smooth shiny veneered panel.

The veneer will be on a stable base.Most likely with solid wood edging attached to the base first, then vacuum-bag glueing the veneer to the base material and edging.Then some combo of either a Maloof (linseed+tung) with lacquer over it, or just a lacquer

I was leaning towards a belt sander with 240 or 300+ belts and then some 600 on a random orbital.I am wondering if I would be better off using a plane or scraper to get the surface smooth and flat.

The edging also is producing some beard-stroking as I am concerned it mad want to pull away from the base with humidity/temp expansion and contraction.

I am considering the edging to be 10-12 mm wide and biscuited onto the substraight, before levelling it to be even with the surface... Then veneer.

Thin veneer is a different situation to using a plane - unless you are skilled at taking very fine shavings, then a plane may be risky. I would definitely never use a belt sander - it will cut through the veneer and destroy the surface.

My first preference would be a card scraper (cabinet scraper in Oz and the UK). There is more control with one of these than a scraper plane since you can adjust and re-adjust the angle of the blade as you like. Set the cabinet scraper up with a fine hook.

Some do prefer a scraper plane in this instance, and I have a Stanley #112 that does work well. The surface you will smooth should be flat, and all you are doing is cleaning up glue joints.

If you want crisp edges, working solid wood is best with a hand plane, either a smoother or a block plane. A sander will round over the edges. Watch the grain direction.

Sanding veneer with an ordinary belt sander would be a disaster in any but the most skilled hands but using a belt sander with a well designed and adjusted frame like the Hol-zer/Festool combination would be the opposite.

Holmz, the sander I have is the 75mm version and it is very easy to handle. I've never held the 105 so I can't say how it feels.