Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

So I’m getting a bit confused on the dosage amounts, maybe I’m just thick headed. I have read some say you treat the MASH water, others say the STRIKE water, can I assume strike water is the TOTAL water used, mash and spage, and the dosage is split and added to both and others say BATCH size? I do 8+ gallon batches, so if I only treat the mash water at a rate of 2gr/hl and I’m mashing in with 9.5 gallons I would use .72gr. My SPARGE water amount is 7 gallons, do I treat this with an additional .53gr of Brewtan B or would all of it go in with the mash, .72gr + .53gr? Lastly, in the boil, do I treat the wort amount in the BK, about 9.5 gallons or the BATCH size, 8 gallons?

The amounts I was given by a factory rep are in volume, not weight, so that's what I use. 1/4 tsp. per 5 gal. of mash and sparge water. That means fpr 5 gal. of mash water you'd use 1/4 tsp. and fpr 3 gal. of sparge water you'd use a bit over 1/8 tsp. Then 15 min. before end of boil 1/2 tsp. mixed with a bit of wort per 5 gal. Using volume is OK in thise case because you just don't have to be tenth of a gram accurate.

For weight measures, I use .75g in a BIAB 10 gal batch in the warmed strike water (13 gallons) just before adding the malt. For the boil, I use 2g hydrated in about 15 ml of water for a few minutes until it becomes a clear solution and add that at 16 minutes prior to the end of the boil, then whirlfloc at 14 minutes. I was told by Joe F. that he now suggests hydrating the boil addition before adding it to the boil (hydrated 2g in 15 ml solution for me) and waiting at least 2 minutes before adding any other clarifying agent.

I don't think you can go wrong on this, though, even if adding dry BTB directly to the boil. Joe just said something about the overall reaction being better with hydration and then waiting on Whirlfloc addition.

For weight measures, I use .75g in a BIAB 10 gal batch in the warmed strike water (13 gallons) just before adding the malt. For the boil, I use 2g hydrated in about 15 ml of water for a few minutes until it becomes a clear solution and add that at 16 minutes prior to the end of the boil, then whirlfloc at 14 minutes. I was told by Joe F. that he now suggests hydrating the boil addition before adding it to the boil (hydrated 2g in 15 ml solution for me) and waiting at least 2 minutes before adding any other clarifying agent.

I don't think you can go wrong on this, though, even if adding dry BTB directly to the boil. Joe just said something about the overall reaction being better with hydration and then waiting on Whirlfloc addition.

The Wyeast website instructions on BrewTan B recommend adding it 0-5 minutes before the end of the boil.Denny, I notice you're adding it around 15 mins before the end of boil.Are you seeing good results doing it this way?

Thanks for the reply denny and clearing up my confusion, good to know that both the mash and the spare are treated separately, also I use weights because I’ve already got the gram scale out to measure the brewing salts so I will keep going with the Brewtan B.

According to the web there are 26.417205 gallons per hectoliter, so if I have 9.5 gallons mash water and use 2gm per hectoliter I get .72 grams for the mash water addition, Big Monk, would that be correct? denny sounds like in your mash water your using 7gr/hl if 1 teaspoon = 5gr, closer to what Yeast is recommending and ynotbrusum your using about 1.5 gr/hl in your strike water (13 gallons), closer to the data sheet, just checking to see if my math is correct.

Thanks for the reply denny and clearing up my confusion, good to know that both the mash and the spare are treated separately, also I use weights because I’ve already got the gram scale out to measure the brewing salts so I will keep going with the Brewtan B.

According to the web there are 26.417205 gallons per hectoliter, so if I have 9.5 gallons mash water and use 2gm per hectoliter I get .72 grams for the mash water addition, Big Monk, would that be correct? denny sounds like in your mash water your using 7gr/hl if 1 teaspoon = 5gr, closer to what Yeast is recommending and ynotbrusum your using about 1.5 gr/hl in your strike water (13 gallons), closer to the data sheet, just checking to see if my math is correct.

ynotbrusum, thanks for the tip on hydrating.

thanks everyone,

Tom

Wyeast's recommendation are pretty much in the range given by the manufacturer specifications:

I agree with you on using weight based additions. You already have the scale out so why not!

To your OP question from above: It is a bit confusing I guess to determine how much to add. We dose the STRIKE water but we also do No-Sparge and recirculate. I would think you want to dose your STRIKE water.

The Wyeast website instructions on BrewTan B recommend adding it 0-5 minutes before the end of the boil.Denny, I notice you're adding it around 15 mins before the end of boil.Are you seeing good results doing it this way?

Yeah, I am. My usage is based on recommendations from Joe Formanek. He's not only the BTB product manager, he's won more awards using it than most people have ever seen.

The Wyeast website instructions on BrewTan B recommend adding it 0-5 minutes before the end of the boil.Denny, I notice you're adding it around 15 mins before the end of boil.Are you seeing good results doing it this way?

Yeah, I am. My usage is based on recommendations from Joe Formanek. He's not only the BTB product manager, he's won more awards using it than most people have ever seen.

Is Joe with Natural Specialties? I'm wondering if the volumetric doses are just based off their weight based recommendations. It would make sense. Wyeast's recommendations and the Ajinomoto recommendations pretty much coordinate.

The Wyeast website instructions on BrewTan B recommend adding it 0-5 minutes before the end of the boil.Denny, I notice you're adding it around 15 mins before the end of boil.Are you seeing good results doing it this way?

Yeah, I am. My usage is based on recommendations from Joe Formanek. He's not only the BTB product manager, he's won more awards using it than most people have ever seen.

Is Joe with Natural Specialties? I'm wondering if the volumetric doses are just based off their weight based recommendations. It would make sense. Wyeast's recommendations and the Ajinomoto recommendations pretty much coordinate.

The Wyeast website instructions on BrewTan B recommend adding it 0-5 minutes before the end of the boil.Denny, I notice you're adding it around 15 mins before the end of boil.Are you seeing good results doing it this way?

Yeah, I am. My usage is based on recommendations from Joe Formanek. He's not only the BTB product manager, he's won more awards using it than most people have ever seen.

Is Joe with Natural Specialties? I'm wondering if the volumetric doses are just based off their weight based recommendations. It would make sense. Wyeast's recommendations and the Ajinomoto recommendations pretty much coordinate.

Joe is with Ajinomoto.

So he probably just adapted his volumetric values from their weight based recommendations based on his experience. Good to know that using either stays true to Joe's recommendations.

Joe is also in my homebrew club and he presented to our tech session on the BTB product - very informative and I agree with Denny - Joe has more awards than any brewer I know. He indicated anecdotally that he has uses BTB on his homebrewed beers and obtained very good clarity and shelf stability (something like a year on one particular blond ale that held up perfectly well flavor-wise, as one example - of course it was refrigerated, too).

The Wyeast website instructions on BrewTan B recommend adding it 0-5 minutes before the end of the boil.Denny, I notice you're adding it around 15 mins before the end of boil.Are you seeing good results doing it this way?

Yeah, I am. My usage is based on recommendations from Joe Formanek. He's not only the BTB product manager, he's won more awards using it than most people have ever seen.

Is Joe with Natural Specialties? I'm wondering if the volumetric doses are just based off their weight based recommendations. It would make sense. Wyeast's recommendations and the Ajinomoto recommendations pretty much coordinate.

Joe is with Ajinomoto.

So he probably just adapted his volumetric values from their weight based recommendations based on his experience. Good to know that using either stays true to Joe's recommendations.

Yeah, I assume that's what he's doing. He's the BTB secialist for Ajinomoto, so I just do whatever he says!

The Wyeast website instructions on BrewTan B recommend adding it 0-5 minutes before the end of the boil.Denny, I notice you're adding it around 15 mins before the end of boil.Are you seeing good results doing it this way?

Yeah, I am. My usage is based on recommendations from Joe Formanek. He's not only the BTB product manager, he's won more awards using it than most people have ever seen.

Thanks, adding it around 15 min makes it easier to get the kettle finings in after adding the BrewTan B. Wonder why Wyeast is recommending 0-5 min.

Yeah, I assume that's what he's doing. He's the BTB secialist for Ajinomoto, so I just do whatever he says!

When Denny and I were talking with Joe at CBC Philly, Joe said to NOT add BTB at the same time as when your Irish Moss is added. I can't recall if he said to add the BTB before or after the Irish Moss. I'm sure there is some sort of interaction since both of these materials have electrically-charged surface chemistry and they probably take each other out, if added together.

I emailed Joe about where and when to use Brewtan-B and dosage. The following is Joe’s response.

I recommend using 1/2 tsp per 5 gallons of the water that you would use for the mash and sparge as well as 1/2 tsp per for a 5 gal batch of beer in the boil. This gives you both protection from oxidation through iron chelation (by mash addition) as well as clarification (by boil addition).Add the 1/2 tsp for the mash directly to the water. Dissolve the 1/2 tsp for the boil in a small amount (1/4 cup or so) of your brewing water then add it to the boil 15 min before the end of the boil. You can use this in conjunction with other fining agents like Polyclar or Whirlfloc, but be sure to add the Brewtan B at least 1 min before the other agents.The official usage is ~4g/hl of wort.

For those using Copper chillers, the boil addition is certainly worthwhile in addition to kettle fining agents due to the copper chiller's potential for participating in the Fenton reaction.

For those using Stainless chillers, the boil addition shouldn't be required. Adding Brewtan B in the boil in addition to kettle finings really serves no purpose in the absence of the requirement for metal chelation (from the copper). Since you have theoretically already treated both the mash and sparge water volume prior, you shouldn't require the metal chelation for your source water either once in the boil.

For those using Copper chillers, the boil addition is certainly worthwhile in addition to kettle fining agents due to the copper chiller's potential for participating in the Fenton reaction.

For those using Stainless chillers, the boil addition shouldn't be required. Adding Brewtan B in the boil in addition to kettle finings really serves no purpose in the absence of the requirement for metal chelation (from the copper). Since you have theoretically already treated both the mash and sparge water volume prior, you shouldn't require the metal chelation for your source water either once in the boil.

Last time I talked to Joe he was recommending dissolving the boil addition in wort rather than water.

For those using Copper chillers, the boil addition is certainly worthwhile in addition to kettle fining agents due to the copper chiller's potential for participating in the Fenton reaction.

For those using Stainless chillers, the boil addition shouldn't be required. Adding Brewtan B in the boil in addition to kettle finings really serves no purpose in the absence of the requirement for metal chelation (from the copper). Since you have theoretically already treated both the mash and sparge water volume prior, you shouldn't require the metal chelation for your source water either once in the boil.

Last time I talked to Joe he was recommending dissolving the boil addition in wort rather than water.