Video: Boxer, Alford spar on “automatic refunds” under Waxman-Markey

posted at 2:19 pm on September 29, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

When last we left the imbroglio between Harry C. Alford, chairman of the National Black Chamber of Commerce, and Senator Barbara Boxer, the former castigated the latter for her focus on skin color when challenging Alford’s opinion on cap-and-trade legislation. That missed a more substantial exchange between Boxer and Alford, in which Ma’am insisted that Waxman-Markey left the poor better off because of subsidies and “automatic refunds” on energy bills. Alford sounded highly skeptical of the government payoff argument:

Senator Boxer. Good. I would like you to know that the bill we are putting together, the biggest priority is softening the blow on our trade-sensitive industries and our consumers. I just want you to know that. That is the goal. Now, at the end of the day, your organization may not think we have not achieved it. But I also want you to know that with Waxman-Markey, and their analysis comes out with a different opinion than yours, shows that, the analysis by the Congressional Budget Office shows that the lowest quintile, the people you say are the most vulnerable, actually come out ahead by $40 due to the automatic refunds that people will be getting on their utility bills.

The only thing I am asking from you, because we went at it pretty hard, is that I hope you will take a look at that analysis. And ask CRA to take a look at it as well. Would you do that and get back to me as to whether there is any change in your opinions?

Mr. Alford. Madam Chair, I will do that. I have been around the block a few times. People are not going to get that refund. It is not going to hit them. People are going to be unemployed and they are not going to have any recourse whatsoever. The Government will have failed them again. Also, I want to take you up on, I want our board to hold a board meeting in San Francisco, and the topic will be the green jobs of California and we want to get on a bus and go see them.

Senator Boxer. Absolutely.

Mr. Alford. Yes, Madam.

Senator Boxer. I have already called ahead to the Apollo Alliance and I asked them if we can do something like this. We will decide where we want to go, both of us, together, and I definitely would like you to see Richmond Build and Solar Richmond because it is amazing. I also wanted to say that, when you raised the fact that you are a veteran, for which we are all deeply grateful, it reminded me of the days when my husband volunteered for the Army. He went in for active duty and then for six years he was in the reserves. It brings back memories of those years of not knowing whether or not he would be called. It was the Berlin crisis and we did not know. And the job insecurity. He was in law school. Would he have to leave and if he came back?

So, I want you to know that one of the other things I would like to do with you when we are out in California is to look at the reach out to the veteran’s organizations that these groups are doing, because it is very heartening to see what they are doing. I am very excited at the fact that you have taken me up on my invitation.

Ma’am refers to the same subsidies and grants discussed in the CBO report on Waxman-Markey, but she neglects to describe the other effects of the higher prices and subsidies. By 2050, the lowest quintile of American earners do come out ahead, but only at the expense of everyone else, especially the middle class, as this CBO chart shows:

The whole point of cap-and-trade is to raise the cost of energy—specifically, energy produced from fossil fuels. Environmentalists know this, so they try mightily to change the subject. They say cap-and-trade is not a tax, principally because in Waxman-Markey, consumers get “rebates.” Yet, under a careful reading of the bill, this is misleading: middle income consumers may or may not get checks from their local utility—in short, nothing in the bill guarantees that they do.

When Republicans recently pounced on Treasury Department estimates—released only after a freedom of information act request—showing President Obama’s cap-and-trade program would cost $1,761 per household (and later, $3,522 per household—a number discovered only after Treasury bowed to pressure and removed redactions in their documents, showing cap-and-trade could cost nearly $400 billion per year) environmentalists cried foul. They argued that, among other things, “allowance revenues” from Waxman-Markey would be used to offset this cost. “The bottom line,” according to Stephen Seidel of the Pew Center, “is that it goes back to the consumers.”

“Goes back to consumers”; what does this mean? For one, it does not mean that middle-income consumers will necessarily get a rebate check from their local distribution company, or LDC, to offset higher electricity bills caused by cap-and-trade. In reading through Section 782 of the bill, one finds that emission allowances “distributed to an electricity local distribution company shall be used exclusively for the benefit of retail ratepayers” [emphasis added]. So far, so good. But again, what does this mean?

Reading further, one finds this: “To the extent an electricity local distribution company uses the value of emission allowances distributed under this subsection to provide rebates, it shall, to the maximum extent practicable, provide such rebates with regard to the fixed portion of ratepayers’ bills or as a fixed credit or rebate on electricity bills.” To the extent it provides rebates? This language is largely hortatory; nothing here requires LDCs to cut a check. And there’s no such requirement in the remaining provisions of Section 782 covering “industrial ratepayers,” “guidelines,” and “regulatory proceedings.”

It seems that Alford is quite right to remain skeptical. The EPW Republicans have sent this letter to Boxer today:

The Honorable Barbara Boxer, Chairman

Committee on Environment and Public Works

United States Senate

Washington, DC 20510

Dear Chairman Boxer,

According to news reports, Sen. Kerry and you plan to introduce cap-and-trade legislation on Wednesday, September 30. We understand that your bill, as currently drafted, is incomplete in several important respects- most notably, it lacks a formula to determine the allocation of emission allowances. Leaving out these and other key provisions makes it impossible to get an objective estimate of the economic impacts of your bill on consumers, especially those in energy-intensive regions that rely on coal for electricity and manufacturing for jobs. Moreover, farmers, families and workers have no way of gauging how acutely they will be affected from job losses, higher electricity, food, and gasoline prices.

On August 6th we wrote to you about these concerns, stating that, “To what degree families will pay higher utility bills, farmers will face higher production costs, drivers will face more pain at the pump, and workers will face a greater likelihood of losing their jobs, depends on how a cap-and-trade program distributes its tradable allowances. This makes knowing the allocation scheme vital to determining who it will help and who it will hurt.” Moreover, as we wrote then and continue to believe now, we cannot repeat the process in the House, in which committee members had only a few days to review critical components of cap-and-trade legislation before markup, and a 300-page supplement was not made public until just hours before the final vote on the floor.

Certainly you would agree with us that the American people and their elected representatives need a fair, open, and transparent review of your legislation. In that vein, we urge you to introduce complete legislation, with no placeholders. Moreover, it is imperative that we have a complete bill well in advance of legislative hearings and markup. Otherwise the legislative process will not paint a full and accurate picture of your legislation to the American people.

And note that Boxer managed to get one last dig in at Alford about his legitimacy as a black man:

Boxer: I also have another question. I think I have the answer, but I want to make sure that I understand you. I am sure you agree that, within each community, regardless of whom they are, there is diversity of opinion on this issue. Is that correct?

Mr. Alford. Yes, Senator.

Senator Boxer. Okay. Because I did get a call from my friends at the House, and they said please put in the record the statement from the Chairwoman of the Black Caucus over there, just because they want to know there are differing opinions. They wanted it included in the record. So, I am going to do that.

We missed that in July. Boxer then hurriedly adjourned before Alford could respond.

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Comments

Boxer is a coward, and I question her existence, in the category of human being.

This bill , like Obama crap, is going to kill us, and industry throughout this country. So we either fight this with the same vigor, as Obamacrap, or we surrender, and live life in huts. And remember…because of these alleged carbon footprints, I doubt very much that burning wood for heat, and cooking purposes, will be allowed.

So what’s the alternative? I suspect to shut up, go somewhere, curl up, and die!

Interesting, she specifically mentions the APOLLO ALLIANCE. They are the peeps who wrote the stimulus bill. Glenn Beck has researched them and reported on them a lot. They all tie back to all of those peeps in SEIU, ACORN, etc. Interesting.

One of the most important sentences in this leftwing dodge by Boxer is her saying that she will set up something with the Apollo Alliance. Anyone who has followed Glenn Beck knows the shady history of the Apollo Alliance, how Harry Reid stated that this Alliance put together the Porkulus Bill. How the head of that Alliance is an unrepentant founder of the Weathermen (Weather Underground) group. Sound familiar? The Apollo Alliance is tied to the Tides Foundation (John Kerry’s wife’s socialist funding operation) and to Acorn and SEIU. Anything Apollo is involved with is merde by definition. Any politician who has anything to do with that group is a socialist or a fellow traveler.

There are not going to be any automatic refunds. It’s a pipe dream the liberals have. There’s not going to be enough money to pay for this crap and tax bill. What happens when the monies fall short, NO refund. I guess it takes a genius to figure that out. And I don’t think there are many geniuses on the hill.

By 2050, the lowest quin tile of American earners do come out ahead, but only at the expense of everyone else, especially the middle class, as this CBO chart shows:

Once again, the result is indeed wealth redistribution aka SOCIALISM.

While I’m certain that that quin tile of Americans will accept this because in part of their lack of knowledge and in part that their just lazy bastards, the rest of us Middle class will suffer irreparable harm to our financial status. The only folks that will benefit from this will be large corporations and those that are heavily invested with them.
Of course by 2050 there won’t be a middle class any longer to speak of, we will all be serfs paying homage to our elite overlords.

Tell me the truth………….would you even let nit wit Boxer clean out your septic tank? I wouldn’t trust her at even that! Got to love those Dems! They are soooooooo awful that Sarah For Prez is looking better and better. Mitt – I love – but RomneyCare killed him. Pawlently is creepy. Huckebee is a spark plug and would make a nice VP for Sarah. Liz Cheney would dominate the campaign if she became Sarah’s Campaign Manager – Liz is sooooooooooooo competent. Hope she takes the job……

I have already called ahead to the Apollo Alliance and I asked them if we can do something like this. We will decide where we want to go, both of us, together, and I definitely would like you to see Richmond Build and Solar Richmond because it is amazing

Oh yay. After the presentation on the solar panels will they have a break out session where Jeff Jones will show how to make bombs?

Its amazing how they think this will be a cure all for being poor. Forgot to ask: is that $40 per month, year, or what?

Rich on September 29, 2009 at 2:54 PM

Not sure…but I heard that the refunds will be delivered by the pols themselves in the form of a big check publishers clearinghouse-style, while the payments will be hidden in electric bills and payroll deductions.

the biggest priority is softening the blow on our trade-sensitive industries and our consumers. I just want you to know that.

So she acknowledges here that because of Congress and what they are doing, they are going to deliver a ‘blow’ to American industries and consumers.

If Congress wasn’t intent on making life more difficult for Americans we would be a lot more successful.

I don’t want the government paying people to ‘soften the blow’ from some legislation they are going to force on us. I would like to think that upon the realization that an un-necessary bill will deliver a ‘blow’ to their constituents, they would drop the bill.

The government is becoming a burden to America. We are much better off without them. Ma’am.

Senator Boxer. I have already called ahead to the Apollo Alliance and I asked them if we can do something like this

No need to call ahead. They proudly tout the fact that they wrote the Stimulus Bill so of course they can and will do whatever your little Marxist heart desires Madam Boxer (with or without the help of Obama’s Communist revolutionary, Van Jones).

Im somewhat confused on Cap and Trade. On the one hand Democrats argue that it is necessary to institute a tax on CO2 emmissions as a means of curbing them. On the other hand they claim they will give that money back to the consumer, meaning consumers, i.e. the end users of the energy that released the CO2 will have no reason to reduce their usage. Anyone care to explain how this makes sense?

They are going to go see Appolo Alliance? Van Jones, Appolo Alliance? The same people who wrote the stimulus bill? The ones run by the founder of the weather underground we have found out because of Beck?

Those are the people she is going to go see to validate GREEN JOBS!

We need to TOTALLY SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT, and totally go through every congressman and senator’s ties to these organizations. We then need to go through every non profit out there for their ties to the president and communisim.

This has just gone too far. It is us or them. Either they go, or our tax dollers go. Which one do you frauds in Washington want?

She has been in Congress so long she has lost all perspective. I am convinced too now after reading and listening to her exchanges with Mr Alford that she knows no other way to communicate with people of color but to be condescending.
Is she a racist? I can’t say but she is definitely out of her comfort zone with this particular man of color.

Boxer: I also have another question. I think I have the answer, but I want to make sure that I understand you. I am sure you agree that, within each community, regardless of whomwho they are, there is diversityare differing opinions on this issue. Is that correct?

Fixed it for you, Senator. Typical lib: always trying to interject the language of the rainbow coalition where it really doesn’t belong.

For those of you asking why Californians don’t vote Boxer and Feinstein out… I can’t explain it but we just can’t get rid of them… For some reason we can’t get anyone of substance to run against them! I’m outraged she said she had already called the Apollo Alliance so she is in bed with them too?
We’re going to have Ca to look at when we want to knw what the whole USA is going to be like after the total socialist take over being orchestrated before our eyes. A completly ruined and disfunctional mess. I hope Americans learn their lesson and never let Democrats get all 3 branches of government again! In the meantime I hope er survive to 2010 and 2012.

The reality is that our radical liberal government does not have any understanding of the consequences of what it is doing, other than their certainty that it will redistribute wealth and bring down our economy. On top of that they explicity play hide the ball by refusing to publish bills long enough in advance for thorough review by people who are interested in the actual consequences.

Im somewhat confused on Cap and Trade. On the one hand Democrats argue that it is necessary to institute a tax on CO2 emmissions as a means of curbing them. On the other hand they claim they will give that money back to the consumer, meaning consumers, i.e. the end users of the energy that released the CO2 will have no reason to reduce their usage. Anyone care to explain how this makes sense?

CharlesSignorile on September 29, 2009 at 3:25 PM

Try to think of it in these terms. Congress will do whatever they have to in order to increase the amount of money the federal govt has. This is one example. Write a bill with a vague reference to a rebate, make no provision for that rebate to actually get paid, scream about it from the rooftops, then refuse to pay it out.

Another example would be every time a republican manages to get a tax cut from a democrat controlled congress on the promise of spending cuts down the road. In all your time on this planet, has congress ever cut overall spending? Yet again, more money for the feds. Simple really.

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