Here’s a brand new discussion thread, right in front of your fat, stupid, weaselly faces. You know the score – use this page to post your comments during and immediately after the episode, and we’ll mention a few of them during the podcast. Once again, comments will paginate when they get to 200. Incoming!

I’m… not sure where to start. That was, quite simply, epic. So many wonderful moments – the mini bunkroom, the clip of Polymorph on the TWAU telly, the CSI parody hysterical, the “writing out” of Katarina (which I doubt is permanent), CarBug!. Just brilliant.

I enjoyed it (not as much as part 1, at first viewing anyway) but, much like Katerina in part 1, it seems the crew are far too accepting and don’t question things that are coming their way. It is never established that the fact that they are TV characters in this dimension would affect them whatsoever even if the characters are due to die… surely they would think ‘no problem, when we get back to our dimension, who cares?’. Then Rimmer goes and kills the person who is controlling their ability to return to Red Dwarf.

….well I don’t know about anyone else but that was WAY better than part
one for me, which confirms my suspicions that part one was not as good only because it ended at the set up. Now we’re into full swing, I’m really
enjoying it. Love the parody of Blade Runner….and the ‘they’re only
characters in a TV show’ thing. Was that why Naylor said we’d hate him after part 2? Don’t beat yourself up, fella, I LOVED IT! LOL :D

Can’t wait for the conclusion. I bet it will be smeggin’ fabulous to watch all in one go – hope they have a director’s cut of some kind on the forthcoming DVD.
—
hopscotch.
Brand new Red Dwarf – ‘Back to Earth’ – 10th, 11th & 12th April 2009.
Channel ‘Dave’.

I knew it would pick up pace come part two, and I thought the dialouge between the fictional Lister and the children on the bus was very nice. Plus it means the option for Kochanski at a later date is possible for a return if wanted. Thought it was a bit harsh killing her off just cause she wasn’t available!

Favourite moments included the Sci-Scan parody, the Earth-like bunk scene, the rediculously long photo method [harking back to Lister’s escape from Rimmerworld], the bus scene as previously mentioned… gonna have to watch it again and add to the list, I can’t remember everything!!!

Another excellent episode. The scene on the bus with the kids was a bit irritating and i’m disappointed it wasn’t a simulant (actually i feel stupid for thinking there was going to be one). I laughed more at last nights but it think thats because i paid more attention to the story, after another watch i’ll notice the jokes more. The length of each one is an issue too it really should of been shown in one go. Tonight’s episode should please those who wanted a more classic Dwarf feel it felt a lot like Backwards.

Loved the extra scene after the recap, loved the entrance into the shop, really loved the ‘bunk room scene’ with Rimmer and Lister (Notice the photo of ‘Me dad’s dog, Hannah’ in the background? Mugs Murphy inclusion was great. The kids on the bus. The way Rimmer disposed of Katerina! Chloe in the magazine – Brilliant touch!! And in the shop…I WANT EVERYTHING.

That was 200% better than last night’s ep, which means this episode deserves a 14 out of 10.

Glad you’re in a minority there, fella. Perhaps you have outgrown the show…..it’s not always the show failing to meet the individual’s expectations, sometimes it can be your own state of mind not meeting it – I’ve come to that realisation myself before now with other stuff. RD-B2E is certainly entertaining a lot of people here.
—
hopscotch.
Brand new Red Dwarf – ‘Back to Earth’ – 10th, 11th & 12th April 2009.
Channel ‘Dave’.

I see. So after 15 years of being a Red Dwarf fan, I’m not entitled to have an opinion on the new shows and discuss them with fellow fans on a Red Dwarf fan site. Instead I’m supposed to shut the fuck up and change the channel? How enlightened you both are.

im shocked by the amount of people who aint got a problem with how easy the crew relaxed to the idea they were a tv show, im not sure it was even explained why they were even finding the creators? so they could have an ending :S… why? :S

im hoping to see a nice twist by part 3, but i cant help but feel the crew should of questioned things more

Pretty good but I wish there was so much MORE of it! Even though the idea of them being characters in a TV show has very little entertainment value, for me at least, especially since the League film did it brilliantly already (including seeing all the League merch, watching themselves on TV etc.). Stuff like the video gag and the big Blade Runner parody/references makes up for it though.

The effects on the entrances to ‘our’ world were top notch. Why no-one seemingly cares about the characters just appearing like that is maybe something we should just forget about. Though the comic book guy’s reaction is puzzling too. Surely he would have completely flipped out. I liked the bit with the kids, even though it went on for too long. Chloe in the magazine!! And Kochanski is NOT DEAD!!! Kryten just lied to Lister to save his feelings (considering he obviously goes and cries at her graveside regularly, to say that was a bit of a mistake on Kryte’s part would be an understatement)

The toilet paper gag had me laughing more than I have for a while. Even in the gags from the previous series. Such a daft hilarious image.

I ended up missing some of the ‘simulant’ (heh, yeah, right) stuff cos the phone rang. Grrr. I’ll catch it again later anyway.

As for the episode… rather confusing, but that’s not a bad thing. I’m not sure I want it to be literally what it seems, but it would be nice for something different than the Back to Reality story.

I can’t help thinking the people in the store were surprising unobservant when they appeared out of the TV sets, but when considering people nowadays… perhaps not.

They’re really laying the Bladerunner stuff on a bit thick though aren’t they? I like a bit of parody, but more as a taster homage rather than something quite so blatant.. but we’ll see. I’ve yet to watch the interview with the old man properly. (I just make noses, was amusing for some reason though.)

Overall good, and certainly funnier than the first episode. I’m liking it and the Kochanski stuff was food for thought. Just the little girls theory or something that was confirmed to her in series IX?

Hmmm… so anyone think Lister is going to be left behind on Earth to try his luck with Chloe Annett?

That this three-parter is designed to write him out (due to Corrie commitments) and when the status quo is restored at the end of the episode, it will be the NEW status quo (or would that be stasis quo?) of the crew minus Listy, in preparation for a new series?

I don’t even know whether that could be classed as wishful thinking (new series) because who would want it without Lister?

>I see. So after 15 years of being a Red Dwarf fan, I?m not entitled to have an opinion on the new shows and discuss them with fellow fans on a Red Dwarf fan site. Instead I?m supposed to shut the fuck up and change the channel? How enlightened you both are.
>

Oh no, you’re perfectly entitled to an opinion….as are we all….but when someone moan’s at part one, then again at part two, *suggesting* they might want to watch something they *do* like as opposed to watching part three is a perfectly valid *suggestion*. Of course….you don’t have to take their advice. I’m sure lots of people can’t wait to hear how much you disliked part three. ;)

Looking at the split this episode has made (having an argument on MSN against a friend who didn’t really like it) it will be an interesting Dwarf Cast today, I think it will be more two sides than yesterday which was basically everyone against John.

>That this three-parter is designed to write him out (due to Corrie commitments) and when the status quo is restored at the end of the episode, it will be the NEW status quo (or would that be stasis quo?) of the crew minus Listy, in preparation for a new series?

sadly i couldnt stop cringing :(, i gave it a chance but for some reason part 1 felt more like red dwarf to me :(

part 2 might of been funnier but wasnt no back to reality :(

It wasn’t back to Reality, and it wasnt Part 1… it was NEW, and it was 2009, taking the smeg out of every convention under the book. And managing to give enough nostalgia for old fans, and yet new material to create new fans along the way.

It’s called change, and for a new age product, I feel it’s for the better…

And what was Kryten going to say to Rimmer about Katerina before they got sucked
into this reality? that seems relevant to me.

Is there any origami in blade runner? There is some great mystery to this Red Dwarf,
that really suits this three parter.

Some people are having trouble grasping the idea of the TV show universe, despite the fact the cast have been a computer game, and a plasticine screen saver before now. Yes your reservations might be right, but this is happening, and If you can go with it, you’ll have more fun.

> Oh no, you?re perfectly entitled to an opinion?.as are we all?.but when someone moan?s at part one, then again at part two, *suggesting* they might want to watch something they *do* like as opposed to watching part three is a perfectly valid *suggestion*. Of course?.you don?t have to take their advice. I?m sure lots of people can?t wait to hear how much you disliked part three. ;)

You sound like an utter stereotypical fanboy there. Unable to accept criticism of any kind against something you like. I wanted these episodes to be fantastic, I wanted them to be funny and clever and a joy to watch. AND THEY’RE NOT. So far, BTE has been boring, with only a handfull of decent jokes and some frankly embarassing moments. Some of the humour in tonight’s episode was as poor as series 8. I am not some moaning hater – I love Red Dwarf. But this is NOT the Red Dwarf I know and have loved all these years. If you are happy to accept an inferior version of the show, then all the best and enjoy it as much as you can. But I’d take series VII over this. Part 3 can’t salvage this FOR ME.

1st comment on this ABSOLUTELY FANFUCKINGTASTIC never laughed soo much in a long long time absolutely amazing brilliant i really enjoyed last nights sooo much but this was A ZILLION TRILLION TIMES BETTER i dont know what to say …

if i had to have a negative at all i would say the bit with the kids dragged slightly but apart from that amazing

You sound like an utter stereotypical fanboy there. Unable to accept criticism of any kind against something you like. I wanted these episodes to be fantastic, I wanted them to be funny and clever and a joy to watch. AND THEY?RE NOT. So far, BTE has been boring, with only a handfull of decent jokes and some frankly embarassing moments. Some of the humour in tonight?s episode was as poor as series 8. I am not some moaning hater – I love Red Dwarf. But this is NOT the Red Dwarf I know and have loved all these years. If you are happy to accept an inferior version of the show, then all the best and enjoy it as much as you can. But I?d take series VII over this. Part 3 can?t salvage this FOR ME.

I think the problem bud is that although you are obviously entitled to an opinion, it’s the wording of them coming across as fact. For example:

…the humour in tonight?s episode was as poor as series 8…

If you were to perhaps say “In my opinion”, not as many people would be making a point. I know I know, it’s petty, but it’s something I picked up on being a possible reason…

Certain people have said they’d take Series VII over this, I agree that VII and VIII weren’t as good as previous series but VIII still holds the record for the highest ratings on BBC2, So what do we know! The show got high ratings last night and we’ll see about tonights episode, i love it so far, i think some people just can’t except change, i’m just glad its back and could lead to more!!!!!

Richey wrote:
>You sound like an utter stereotypical fanboy there. Unable to accept criticism of any kind against something you like. I wanted these episodes to be fantastic, I wanted them to be funny and clever and a joy to watch. AND THEY?RE NOT. So far, BTE has been boring, with only a handfull of decent jokes and some frankly embarassing moments. Some of the humour in tonight?s episode was as poor as series 8. I am not some moaning hater – I love Red Dwarf. But this is NOT the Red Dwarf I know and have loved all these years. If you are happy to accept an inferior version of the show, then all the best and enjoy it as much as you can. But I?d take series VII over this.
>

I sound like a fanboy? Actually, I defended your right to your opinion. I know some will like it and some won’t. You’re the fanboy for insisting that this is an inferior product and that I must somehow not come up to scratch for liking it. I’m not telling you to like it, all I said was that I can understand someone suggesting you perhaps watch something you like instead (which I never said myself) considering you obviously don’t like this.

Oh nobody has mentioned the video stuff, Kryten saying that they changed from DVDs to video because they lossed so many DVDs from not putting them in their case. So funny, such a well thought out joke which is a wonderful back refrence.

Hn, first impression was that I found the episode underwhelming. Seemed largely filler which may look better as part of the whole on DVD/played back to back, but I wasn’t feeling it tonight, Price Smashers salesman and vehicular Katerina notwithstanding.

>Oh nobody has mentioned the video stuff, Kryten saying that they changed from DVDs to video because they lossed so many DVDs from not putting them in their case. So funny, such a well thought out joke which is a wonderful back refrence.

Yes, Doug Naylor is a genius and can still write classic Dwarf. We just have to accept (I do, at least), that it’s not going to be Grant Naylor Dwarf. If we accept that, and Doug has the courage to write Dwarf as he wants – in this movie style, no studio audience – well, we get fantastic episodes like this.

> I can understand someone suggesting you perhaps watch something you like instead (which I never said myself) considering you obviously don?t like this.

I really wish that I did like it, hopscotch. I wish that I could see what everyone else finds so good about it.

Both last night and tonight I’ve sat down in front of the TV, eager and excited, looking forward to it, giggling about old RD jokes with my family while we’ve waited with anticipation during the adverts for BTE to start. And at the end of both episodes I’ve found myself feeling disappointed. Basically, the exact same process I went through every week when series 8 was originally screened.

>Thanks Chris. Been ages since I?ve seen Blade Runner and dont think I?ve ever seen the Final cut.

You don’t need the final cut to have got the Origami….it is present all the way through the theatrical version. All the director’s cut did as far as I can remember was to add a dream sequence of Deckard dreaming about a Unicorn running through a forest (suggesting ‘Do Androids dream of electric sheep’…i.e is Deckard a replicant), and they removed the happy ending (Deckard and Rachael driving into the sunset together). But yeah, all the way through the Gaff character (Edward James Olmos) was leaving little Origami statues about the place….as was Cat tonight.

Glad you?re in a minority there, fella. Perhaps you have outgrown the show?..it?s not always the show failing to meet the individual?s expectations, sometimes it can be your own state of mind not meeting it – I?ve come to that realisation myself before now with other stuff.

Not at all, I loved last night. I liked today… less. I don’t feel the music they’re using works, and I felt the entrance into the TV shop was about a minute too long, and I found the “let’s do lots of picture manipulation” bit exceedingly stupid.

Other than that, it’s good, but I think it’s missing lots of explanation along the way. The pacing is off by a mile.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Chloe making an appearance, mind you, I wouldn’t be surprised by anything having watched it so far…(maybe she comes to the rescue, there have been a number of references so far, and it would be a masive turn up)
I seem to recall Robert mentioning at one time that it was just the boys and then changing it to there was no confirmation of Chloe, Norman and Hattie or words to that effect)

Overall I’ve loved every moment of it so far, every twist, every weird moment.
I also think that Doug has done a cracking job of combining the o;d style with something completely new, It’s joyous, dark and even poignent in places and there’s some great classic style humour as well. I thought, something for everyone.

Having said that, I was expecting some mixed reaction, there always is…

All I can say is that from the moment the theme tune opened on Friday, I was hooked.

In fact, When the theme tune burst into life, I could feel the hairs on my neck stand up and I cant recall any other show ever having that effect…

> I really wish that I did like it, hopscotch. I wish that I could see what everyone else finds so good about it.

>Both last night and tonight I?ve sat down in front of the TV, eager and excited, looking forward to it, giggling about old RD jokes with my family while we?ve waited with anticipation during the adverts for BTE to start. And at the end of both episodes I?ve found myself feeling disappointed. Basically, the exact same process I went through every week when series 8 was originally screened.
>

Fair play, mate. I wish you could have enjoyed it, but I respect the fact you don’t.

I thought all the sci fi in this was Bollocks. I agree with Richey, it’s all rubbish, I mean a dimension cutter? we dont sell anything like that in pricesmashers. People coming through the TV what utter fucking time wasting, I only tuned into Dave to see if Jeremy Clarkson had any more insights for me, and this crap was on.

Now Iain Lee he’s a funny guy. That’s the kind of comedy you sad types should be watching. Funny man.

I kinda wish now I hadn’t followed every snippet of news so closely. I’ve been trying to avoid genuine spoilers (I didn’t venture into the “spoiling in the gutters” thread, haven’t read the OfftheTelly review linked on the main page, and didn’t watch the clip from Thursday’s Berkeley Square event) but much of the speculation that’s been posted on Ganymede & Titan news items has been pretty accurate. So now I’m wondering how I would react to this self-referential metafictional stuff if I hadn’t been following anything on the Internet beforehand…

Cat’s little origami models. Yes, it’s a Blade Runner reference. But they’re shown so clearly that there must be more to it than that. They must be integral to the plot. Is it me or do they look like little paper squid?

Loved all the Blade Runner stuff, especially the “image enhancement” bit. It’s not CSI, peoples! It’s parodying the equally ridiculous similar scene in Blade Runner. The “uncrop” nearly made me choke up a puddle of pure laughter and I was in hysterics through the whole scene.

Rimmer was talking about concerns of being a character on a TV show and the draw-backs of it being a 3-parter (“What if I’m out?”)…one can only assume he was about to say “What if there’s an advert break?”. All part of the meta-ficitonal funnies.

Loved it loved it loved it.

Seriously funny, clever stuff. Classic Dwarf. I can’t believe how good this is turning out.

One thing, though – I will utterly defend anyone’s right to say that it’s rubbish. I’ve been saying that series 7 and 8 are largely plops for a long time and I know it’s not a view everyone shares. Nobody has the right to tell anyone else they’re wrong for either loving or hating this or any other Dwarf. It’s just opinions, man.

i agree the pace seems rushed. but thats due to time constraints i think. had this been made as a 6 parter series it would be better paced. i miss the laugh track really. the laugh track is really the defining charecteristic of alot of comedies.

that aside i liked episode 1 alot more then 2. the whole them realising they are fictional charecters doesn’t work for me really. kochanski dieing or not via being sucked out a air lock is a bit dry. i admit i preferd my theory i made up at carbug located of lister bonking her to death. its a funny way to go really lol.

also curiouse as to what these little origarmi things cat keeps leaving around are ment to represent they clearly are integral to the plot in some fashion

Hmmm… notice how when the dimension portal thingy whatever it was opened, everybody (including Rimmer) was clinging on so as not to be pulled into it, yet Katerina was rather calm and chilled and standing perfectly still?

Also, after the revelation that Kochanski MAY have dumped Lister due to deteriorating mental state (drinking, despondancy) and Katerina’s “his body is alive but inside he is dead”… could Kochanski have orchestrated Katerina’s sudden arrival, to shake some life back into Lister?

>Rimmer was talking about concerns of being a character on a TV show and the draw-backs of it being a 3-parter (?What if I?m out??)?one can only assume he was about to say ?What if there?s an advert break??.

That was really funny too. The thing with tonight’s show, over Ep.1 is that every scene had a great moment. The appliance store, the bus, the comic shop…an amazing amount was packed into 26 or so minutes.

I can understand that some people don’t like meta-fiction, but what I don’t get is why they keep watching, keep complaining, and keep acting like Doug Naylor has made this as a personal affront to them.

So are they repeating Polymorph because of the refrence in the episode, if they are I have to say it is well though through scheduling.

And IIRC “Back to Reality” will be repeated after part 3. This may be Significant.

Zombie Jim Undead:

Rimmer was talking about concerns of being a character on a TV show and the draw-backs of it being a 3-parter (?What if I?m out??)?one can only assume he was about to say ?What if there?s an advert break??. All part of the meta-ficitonal funnies.

I thought he was about to say, “What if it doesn’t record properly?” To give a little shock to people who did record it. As I said earlier, I wonder how that’ll come across on the DVD?

> It also has particular significance at the end of the Director?s Cut and Final Cut versions of the film.

And even moreso in the Philip K Dick book from which it was adapted.

Was there origami figures in that book? It’s been a while since I read that, or were you just referring to the idea of fake memories (I remember that.)

Yeah the origami figures were in all versions of the films. It has special significance in the films with the unicorn though, which makes me wonder if Cat’s leaving them is a clue to the ‘reality’ of the situation they find themselves. (Although I wonder why the Cat would be channeling these clues. Then again, this might be a reference to the Cat’s sudden insightfullness in VR in Back in the Red…)

Yeah, episode 23 ‘To the Death’. But just about 2 seconds from a single scene where a Jem’Hadar leader breaks the neck of one of his men, as a punishment for scrapping with Worf. For some reason I’ve temporarily forgot, Starfleet and the Jem’Hadar are working together in this episode. An annoying cut….but I can live with it (I downloaded the uncut episode anyway…AFAIC I paid good money for that scene when I bought the R2 DVD’s).

Now the cut in the sixth season episode ‘Sons and Daughters’….that is brutal. A Klingon blood sharing ritual is completely hacked from it…..about 20 odd seconds IIRC. (I downloaded the uncut version of that, too) :)

> Yeah, episode 23 ?To the Death?. But just about 2 seconds from a single scene where a Jem?Hadar leader breaks the neck of one of his men, as a punishment for scrapping with Worf. For some reason I?ve temporarily forgot, Starfleet and the Jem?Hadar are working together in this episode. An annoying cut?.but I can live with it (I downloaded the uncut episode anyway?AFAIC I paid good money for that scene when I bought the R2 DVD?s).

>Now the cut in the sixth season episode ?Sons and Daughters??.that is brutal. A Klingon blood sharing ritual is completely hacked from it?..about 20 odd seconds IIRC. (I downloaded the uncut version of that, too) :)

I was under the impression that the Starfleet/Jem’Hadar assault was trimmed, too. At least, according to Memory Alpha.

>Yeah, episode 23 ?To the Death?. But just about 2 seconds from a single scene where a Jem?Hadar leader breaks the neck of one of his men, as a punishment for scrapping with Worf. For some reason I?ve temporarily forgot, Starfleet and the Jem?Hadar are working together in this episode. An annoying cut?.but I can live with it (I downloaded the uncut episode anyway?AFAIC I paid good money for that scene when I bought the R2 DVD?s).
Now the cut in the sixth season episode ?Sons and Daughters??.that is brutal. A Klingon blood sharing ritual is completely hacked from it?..about 20 odd seconds IIRC. (I downloaded the uncut version of that, too) :)

I have never seen DS9 4, Only finished Season 3 a week back, I will get the region 2 version despite the annoying cuts because it is cheaper and it matches the other 3 as well as my other Trek slimline sets.

I thought all the sci fi in this was Bollocks. I agree with Richey, it?s all rubbish, I mean a dimension cutter? we dont sell anything like that in pricesmashers. People coming through the TV what utter fucking time wasting, I only tuned into Dave to see if Jeremy Clarkson had any more insights for me, and this crap was on.

Now Iain Lee he?s a funny guy. That?s the kind of comedy you sad types should be watching. Funny man.

>I was under the impression that the Starfleet/Jem?Hadar assault was trimmed, too. At least, according to Memory Alpha.

I think you’re actually right….and wrong at the same time. As far as I know (I may be wrong though), those battle scenes were cut out of the final print of the episode completely…some 45 seconds that never made it to ANY region DVD. If you read down the page a bit further on Memory Alpha, it states what the BBFC from the R2 version as opposed to what is on the R1 version….and that only lists the neck breaking scene. I don’t think they class the other cut as one because it never made the final print anyway. I may be wrong, though. I have both R1 and R2 episodes and the neck scene is the only difference I’ve ever spotted. Memory Alpha lists the R2 cuts as:

“The Region 2 release of this episode recuts the moment where the First breaks the neck of the Second as a punishment. Instead of seeing the actual breaking, a shot of Worf is shown. The sound of the bone breaking is also removed.”

See, as it never mentions the other scenes…I’ve always been led to believe that they never made it to the final print whatsoever. R1 claims itself as completely uncut…so I guess this must be the case.

>I have never seen DS9 4, Only finished Season 3 a week back, I will get the region 2 version despite the annoying cuts because it is cheaper and it matched the other 3 as well as my other Trek slimline sets.

Yeah mate, I wouldn’t bother messing about for a few seconds. You can always download the uncut episode anyway….you will have paid for it. Who are the BBFC to rob you? :)

> See, as it never mentions the other scenes?I?ve always been led to believe that they never made it to the final print whatsoever. R1 claims itself as completely uncut?so I guess this must be the case.

Yeah, no you’re right. I hadn’t read that bit for a while and was assuming it from memory. The comments by Behr and the stunt dude on MA point to it also. To be honest though, I think it flows okay. The neck snap is shitty though. I saw it uncut on Virgin1 last year or whenever it was. I expect I’ll get the R1 eventually, but there’s no rush.

> Where was ?Revenge of the Mutant Splat-Gore Monster??
> I take it you mean ?Revenge of the Surfboarding Killer Bikini Vampire Girls??!

Unfortunately, my TV is shit and is not HD ready… in fact, it is thoroughly unprepared for HD… so most of the DVD covers are lost on me. It seems like they are ALL references of some kind, but I can only make out the ones mentioned so far.

There is a big red poster in the background that read “Revenge of…” and the rest is far too blurry for me to make out.

As for ‘The Lady with a Face”… it kinda looks like it could be Chloe actually. It doesn’t really look like Sophie Winkleman though. Could be wrong, but I have it paused right now, and I’d say it could well be Chloe.

Whatever peoples opinion of it was, everyone must agree that there’s an AWFUL lot of plot to cover in the last episode. I hope it’s not rushed. I really don’t think it’ll end with the status quo considering how much they’ve got to get through.

Loved it by the way. I genuinely think Chloe will appear. That picture of her in the magazine, is that just a library shot of her, or is that a new pic? If it’s new, i call cameo in last episode. Bit crap :)

> As for ?The Lady with a Face?? it kinda looks like it could be Chloe actually. It doesn?t really look like Sophie Winkleman though. Could be wrong, but I have it paused right now, and I?d say it could well be Chloe.

Could be. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was significant, they seem to deliberately get a long shot of it.

>Yeah, no you?re right. I hadn?t read that bit for a while and was assuming it from memory. The comments by Behr and the stunt dude on MA point to it also. To be honest though, I think it flows okay. The neck snap is shitty though. I saw it uncut on Virgin1 last year or whenever it was. I expect I?ll get the R1 eventually, but there?s no rush.
>

More worrying than the cuts that I’ve found personally, but I’m led to believe I’m in a minority, is that I can hear the 1 semitone increment in sound between NTSC and PAL. I spent a bit of time in the States, where I first watched most of my Trek…then I came home and bought the R2 sets of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. As PAL is played back faster (25FPS as oppose to 23.9…or whatever it is), I notice the higher pitched voices. It still bugs me even now. I play music you see….so I notice slight shifts in tone. Apparently most people can’t tell. It’s a right pisser if you can though. The Doctor on Voyager sounds like a bloody chipmunk! LOL :)

Posters in background for Aliens and Memento… could be significant? I haven’t seen either.

Cat’s reaction to finding out he, and therefore his good looks, are not real is fucking brilliant. Could have been wildly OTT but he kept it about as subtle as you could really considering. In fact, Danny was in full Cat mode in this episode… he seemed a bit off in Pt 1 for some reason, but he nailed it in Pt 2.

Even though I absolutely loved it, I did notice a few things that stuck out to me. Lister being puzzled by a hand dryer? Cat in series VIII used a hand dryer reference when he was insulting Holly. Surely Lister knows the purpose of a hand dryer?

>Also, after the revelation that Kochanski MAY have dumped Lister due to >deteriorating mental state (drinking, despondancy) and Katerina?s ?his body is >alive but inside he is dead?? could Kochanski have orchestrated Katerina?s sudden >arrival, to shake some life back into Lister?

Good point, I’m getting that vibe too, and thinking Katerina is Kochanski in some way. Add Kryten’s comments about her record being too perfect. It certainly makes the grave scene more relevant to the over all plot of this three parter than just a way of dispensing with the character. I was so into the story, comedy, mystery and referencing in this that I forgot to say how awesome all the effects were done in this part of the story, the coming through the tv screens is the most excited ive been watching Dwarf since the end of series five.

> picture of her in the magazine, is that just a library shot of her, or is that a new pic?

Looked a lot like a recent picture as I noticed that she looked older. In a nice way.

She might make a cameo…but I doubt she’ll be immediately returning to the crew at the end of the episodes.

Looking forward to a whole Series 10 of Listy leading the gang on a cosmos-spanning Kochanski chase so that he can win her back, move up and down on her rapidly and get her in a white dress and on a horse.

Or will it be Series 11? Didn’t they mention in the episode that “Back to Earth” takes place “Soon after series 10”?

>More worrying than the cuts that I?ve found personally, but I?m led to believe I?m in a minority, is that I can hear the 1 semitone increment in sound between NTSC and PAL. I spent a bit of time in the States, where I first watched most of my Trek?then I came home and bought the R2 sets of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. As PAL is played back faster (25FPS as oppose to 23.9?or whatever it is), I notice the higher pitched voices. It still bugs me even now. I play music you see?.so I notice slight shifts in tone. Apparently most people can?t tell. It?s a right pisser if you can though. The Doctor on Voyager sounds like a bloody chipmunk! LOL :)

Oh my god! I notice the exact same thing, and you’re the first person i’ve heard other than me talk about it. I work at the beeb and even the sound engineers there don’t have a clue what i mean!

I first noticed it years ago when i would download theme tunes from my favourite American shows off the internet and would get annoyed because they were too slow and i didn’t know why. I obviously found out later that it’s pitch correction so that NTSC footage could be converted to PAL without the sound being out of sync.

I find it weird how no one notices. It’s blatently obvious to me, especially when music is played.

The annoying thing is now i’m so used to the faster versions that i’m starting to buy Blurays of American shows and they just sound so wrong because the footage is transferred at the correct speed on Bluray.

The whole metaficiton nature calls into question whether we’re watching a show or reality…and that kind of reality-crossing wouldn’t really work with audience laughter all the way through. If you see what I mean.

Thinking about it, some people said the crew should be more shocked its a tv show. However they’re in an alternate dimension so it isn’t really that shocking. It’s just something weird about a dimension that isn’t their own. Kinda like how easily they accepted men give birth in parallel universe.

Kryten was definitely lying about Kochanski’s death for real. I only noticed his reaction to Lister reading it from the synopsis on Dave ja vu. Chloe has to make an appearance at the end if there’s to be any point to this story thread. I’m predicting the whole situation is Krissie getting her own back, both on Lister and Rimmer, and that Red Dwarf as a TV show is something she has devised as a trick.

Innovative, over the top, metaphysical, ideally suited for an episode of Red Dwarf. It just works so well. The comedy was well paced, not too over done in places. I thought that I would hate seeing the crew self aware and completely breaking the forth wall, however I found that I loved it; the whole premise is just perfect for a show that has been poking fun at Sci-fi concepts, television shows and beliefs and then for a parody like silly concept where they themselves discover they are characters for a show, well it just tops the boat storywise. The poking fun at Red Dwarf/ Sci-Fi fans as a whole was just spot on. It’s like the ultimate Red Dwarf story, it genuinely feels like a homage in part to the history of Dwarf and then also a tribute to reinvention, unparalleled convention breaker. This is what I love about Red Dwarf.

Is that what’s happening here? Could it be that rather than the characters from the TV sitcom Red Dwarf coming out of a TV screen into the real world, its actually the actors being dragged out of the real world and INTO the TV universe, where they have no memories of their life on Earth. Therefore, rather than dismissing the adventures of the crew as a fictional TV show (as Pt 2 seemed to do), it actually legitimizes them as even more real than they were previously.

That’s why Lister (aka the actor Craig Charles) finds himself stranded in deep space with no memory of getting there and ends up joining the Space Corps.

> Thinking about it, some people said the crew should be more shocked its a tv show. However they?re in an alternate dimension so it isn?t really that shocking. It?s just something weird about a dimension that isn?t their own. Kinda like how easily they accepted men give birth in parallel universe.

Yeah, but rather than just accept that “these are the laws of this dimension”, they start freaking out about not being real (as if the law of this universe would still apply if/when they go back to their own), and go off to beg for more time. Doesn’t quite sit right.

The magazine that Lister reads in the bus, the one with the picture of Chloe and her kids you can just make a out the writing. It says Mr. Flibble at the start, and a totally made up paragraph follows. I’m sure you’ll be able to read the whole thing on Blu-Ray! There was quite a few cameo’s going on as well. Mike Seymour outside the comic shop. Howard Burden and Jo Howard going up the elevator, and the very attractive make-up lady, can’t remember her name. In the shop. Aliens poster as well as Memento. Other video cover was possibly Space Cop Police Squad.

> Could it be that rather than the characters from the TV sitcom Red Dwarf coming out of a TV screen into the real world, its actually the actors being dragged out of the real world and INTO the TV universe, where they have no memories of their life on Earth. Therefore, rather than dismissing the adventures of the crew as a fictional TV show (as Pt 2 seemed to do), it actually legitimizes them as even more real than they were previously.

That… was… AWESOME!!! I’m so glad I avoided any major spoilers, I enjoyed it so much better for it. :) Some random thoughts:

I’ve fallen asleep to my DVDs before and had really cool Red Dwarf dreams, and I swear, when I was watching that, it was just like I was dreaming it… it was so cool, but so trippy!

I swear, I totally thought the comic book guy was Rob Grant, he sounded so much like him! I know, Rob doesn’t have a Scouse accent, but he did one for Lister when he narrated ‘Backwards’, and it really sounded like him, not to mention looked not unlike him as well!

And speaking of, stylistically and storywise, that episode even more than last night’s had the feel of an adaption of a Red Dwarf book, rather than of the old shows, which is fine, because I really enjoyed all the books. :) That part on the bus especially kind of reminded me of ‘Better than Life’. Very sweet and poignent as well. Though at first I was rolling my eyes a bit at the premise, I really did end up enjoying it immensely.

I usually agree that Rimmer is a total smeghead, but I must admit I was totally behind him and laughed my ass off when he dispatched Katerina, especially given the conversation which preceeded it. Too hilarious – bitch *had* to go! I loved Kryten’s reaction as well, even if, unlike him, I actually *didn’t* see it coming (though I wasn’t surprised when it did). :)

This one didn’t seem to fly by quite as quickly, which was nice, but then again, it was ten minutes longer, wasn’t it? It really does seem a bit like ‘Lord of the Rings’, though, where it was meant to be one big epic but they were requested to split it, because the endings just feel totally chopped, there’s no sense of a proper end of the episode on either of the two we’ve seen.

Of course, it’s not like it picked right up where the last one left off, so I’m guessing they’re not going to just edit them all into one big movie length feature on the DVD (at least, it wouldn’t seem so, though who knows? Well, probably Andrew, LOL), but in any case, I can’t wait to see them all together on Monday.

Anyhoo, hubby’s going to show me Blade Runner now, seeing as I’m a total heathen who’s never actually seen it (though of course, I know a bit about it), so that’s me off. So chuffed BtE has exceeded all my expectations!

P.S. I assume the Series 10 thing as well as the fan club president etc being different was to establish this was an alternate universe to ours as well as theirs?

~~~~~

Edit: Now I’ve skimmed the comments:

> OOH OOOH OOOOHHH?
>
> Forgot to say.

Me too… :)

> In addition to the Mugs Murphy DVD, did anyone else
> notice the DVD copy of ?Die Screaming with Sharp Things
> in Your Head? on the shelf?

I totally pointed out the Mugs Murphy thing to my hubby – lovely bit of detail! – but the weird thing is, though the ‘Die’ stood out to me, and I thought there might have been more than one self-reference there, I couldn’t actually place it at the time (probably due in no small part to the fact that I couldn’t actually read it). Thanks for mentioning it!

The magazine that Lister reads in the bus, the one with the picture of Chloe and her kids you can just make a out the writing. It says Mr. Flibble at the start, and a totally made up paragraph follows. I?m sure you?ll be able to read the whole thing on Blu-Ray!

Having now watched it three times (three times is enough, I’ll burn out on the damn thing before my Pts 1 and 2 rewatch tomorrow prior to Pt 3) my opinion has improved. Not that I didn’t like it to begin with, but I found it less funny than a lot of people here on my first impression.

There are a lot of unanswered questions and plot holes, but I’m just hoping that, at the very least, the worst offenders will be cleared up tomorrow (and that some of the others may be expanded upon if there’s an Extended cut on the DVD, and were simply dropped for time).

All in all, another good episode. Rather different to Pt 1. A lot less in the way of CGI and effects, bar the opening few minutes. Anyone else notice that the “Too weird for words” line on the Red Dwarf poster in the DVD store was superimposed onto the original picture? I mean, even the poster itself could have been superimposed in theory, but the “Too weird…” line was seperate.

Not as much in the way of funny inter-character banter, but laid on the funnies in other ways, with all the back referencing and convention acknowledging, which I hope didn’t serve to alienate casual viewers too much. I can see why critics who attended the premiere weren’t too kind to it… this is a present to the fans, but I can see how it would go over the heads of any new viewers.

Can you imagine the faces of a bunch of non-Dwarf viewing media/critic types watching Back to Earth in some theatre in London somewhere? Fuck their opinions, they so rarely reflect my own that I can’t put any stock into them.

> Also, it?s very odd to have people mention Memory Alpha here (I?m an admin there)?

Good site, that.

Anyway, I love Roberts delivery of “no, we don’t do that,” after the ‘that’s Star Trek’ comment. He sounded so official.

Also, those two guys who were on the spacecorpsdirective site that were wearing Ace t-shirts… that was the back of the one with dreads head when the cast were walking to the sci-fi shop, wasn’t it? I think this means there must be more material on the DVD, as from what we’ve heard he was definitely involved more than a second of the back of his head.

> Yeah, but rather than just accept that ?these are the laws of this dimension?, they start freaking out about not being real (as if the law of this universe would still apply if/when they go back to their own), and go off to beg for more time. Doesn?t quite sit right.

Good point, well made. Now i’ve seen it again Katerina tells them they don’t exist before going into the portal. Her saying that has to reinforce the crews belief they’re fictional in all dimensions. Although Rimmer actually liking the fact he’s not real doesn’t seem right.

(also i had a horrible thought they might wake up in the AR suite from season 8 and are still on trial for their crimes. If it happens i called it lol)

Robert said on his Twitter account that the version they saw wasn’t split into episodes and was a bit different to what we have seen. He also said that they had shot too much for 3 episodes, so hopefully this’ll all be on the DVD.

> Also, those two guys who were on the spacecorpsdirective site that were wearing Ace t-shirts? that was the back of the one with dreads head when the cast were walking to the sci-fi shop, wasn?t it? I think this means there must be more material on the DVD, as from what we?ve heard he was definitely involved more than a second of the back of his head

Yep. In one of the Dave making-ofs, they interview this guy. He just happened to be around when they were shooting and just happened to be wearing an Ace Rimmer T-Shirt.

They filmed a little scene of him double-taking the crew as they walked past him but it seems to have been snipped.

Good episode with lot’s of laugh out loud moments.
Feels it should be watched directly after part1 and not seperatly.

Just finished reading all the comments.
It seems i’ve missed several details in the background of this episode.
Too busy laughing i gues.
Shall watch it again to spot them this time round.

I also think that the origami that the Cat folds looks very much like a squid.
And isn’t it strange how Katharina suddenly appeared/found the crew.
Something fishy about her and it’s not fishpaste or Lister’s trainers.

> Yep. In one of the Dave making-ofs, they interview this guy. He just happened to be around when they were shooting and just happened to be wearing an Ace Rimmer T-Shirt.
They filmed a little scene of him double-taking the crew as they walked past him but it seems to have been snipped.

That was what I meant, couldn’t remember where it was from.

Anyway with this and Robert’s twitter we now pretty much know for sure that there will be more on the DVD. Excellent.

Oh yeah, and whoever said Cat’s origami looks like the squid as it shoots out of the water tank and is appears is right. That must be what it is.

The entire plot has been handled by the characters with such a nonchalant shrug that I have to assume the immediate acceptance of “A knight escaped from the AR machine and killed Rimmer” was down to the fact that their brains melted–in universe–as a result of the paradox that closed Out of Time.

Also: the tomato sequence from yesterday and the hilaaaaaaaaarious spread-cheeks gag today proves better than VIII ever did that Doug doesn’t write good bunkroom material anymore. It was nice to see the set, though. Both times. Maybe those scenes were designed to be viewed on mute.

I just finished watching it. My husband was sitting across the room from me at his computer asking “Are they supposed to be doing Blade Runner?” DUH. MUCH funnier than Pt. I, IMO. I did not need the visual of Lister’s unfortunate restroom visit, but still funny. What was hilarious to me was the whole ridiculous BR photo-res scene. Even the DH thought that was pretty funny. Loved the rundown of transportation devices. (“That’s Star Trek!”) I don’t think I can say enough how much I loved this episode!

Cant say i was overall impressed by part 2. Preferred part one. However i just came to realize something that hasn’t been mentioned before(to my knowledge lol) Anyways, cat was leaving the origami squid things around(blade runner), is there the possibility that this entire story is linked to Cat? In part one he mentions he was about to be eaten by the squid only to blank out and wake up on G-deck.

Ok, this is me being very dense, but you know the scene where they need money and Rimmer says “Money, I know where to find some.”? Then suddenly there’s some mobile phones, money and junk on the table.

Was the suggestion they picked people pockets? Sorry if it’s really obvious.

Erm. No. They quite obviously decide to track down their creators because THAT’S WHAT IT SAYS THEY DO IN THE BLURB. It’s not just some random “Oh let’s go track them down because we’re on a DVD”. They have nothing else to go on, they’re confused about being fictional characters, but the DVD seems to know what happens to them and tells them what they should be doing. This is the reason they also go to the comic shop.

Anyway. My thoughts overall are very positive. Loved the first part of the episode from the off, it was filled with great laugh out loud stuff. My favourite was the bloke ranting about the sci-scan followed by “the sci-scan says he’s a petty, know all man with a small penis” lines! Absolutely hilarious. Other highlights from first 10mins were Cat’s classic dance entrance and Rimmers “Oh God I hate 3 parters”. When that ad break came on I was so worried it was Dave cocking it up again that I missed the joke but on a second watch it seems fairly clear it was intended.

The second half felt very strange to me first time round and I didn’t laugh as much because it was more of a “what the hell’s going on, I can’t take in all the story AND concentrate on the jokes” situation. I’m still a bit confused as to why the audience in the show have seen a Series IX and X but we haven’t though…I did notice A LOT of Bladerunner references in the second half. The oragami, the guy in the big cold warehouse who does noses (instead of eyes!), Rimmer tracking the address on the photo (which was carried out to a ridiculous extent but was GENIUS because of it), and the snake scale. Maybe a couple more as well. I do worry however that those segments weren’t funny to people who haven’t seen Bladerunner. Was watching with my dad and he didn’t laugh much at those bits as he hasn’t seen it. Meanwhile I was giggling away!

Additionally the second half seemed much funnier the second time I watched it. The comic shop stuff is awesome. The guy renamed himself Reg Warf! Fandom to the extreme! The suggestions of how to travel to where they need to go and “Its on Red Dwarf!” followed by “Thats Star Trek!!” hahahaha. The kids on the bus bugged me a bit but I think that’s just me being annoyed by child actors in general hehe. Interesting about Chole, I wouldn’t bet against her making an appearance tomorrow. A lot to cram in in part 3 though, I thought Lister was supposed to be getting seperated from the crew? They can’t get seperated and reunited and solve everything and get back to Red Dwarf in one episode surely?! How the hell were they EVER going to do this in 2 parts?! This story needs a full 6/8 part series to do it justice!!

Last couple of points. In the comic shop did anyone notice Norm on that Red Dwarf fan thing next to the SFX magazine? He’ll sue if he finds out they used his image!!! :P

And finally when they were all getting sucked into the portal and then landing in the store it felt VERY film-like. VERY. If I had gone to see this story in a cinema as a film I’d have been totally happy. And whilst having it on TV in 3 parts clearly isn’t the best way to watch it us fans shouldn’t be moaning about that and having a go at Dave. If it wasn’t for them we wouldn’t be seeing this in any form at all. So they chopped it up and put it on over 3 nights to maximise interest over a longer period. Big deal. We’ll have our long, extended, cut together versions on DVD soon enough. Just be thankful to Dave for giving us this!! I don’t want it to end tomorrow! :-(

>Erm. No. They quite obviously decide to track down their creators because THAT?S WHAT IT SAYS THEY DO IN THE BLURB.

That doesn’t really affect my summary, though. It’s just a facilitator. If it makes you feel better:

“We?re fictional creations??
?I guess so. I?m holding a DVD with my picture on it, so let?s track down our creators and plead for life. That’s what it says we do.?
?Off we go then!!!?

That doesn’t appeal to me any more than it did previously.

I’d imagine it would be kind of like finding a novel in a store, called The Adventures of Phil or something, and the back cover blurb was full of things that I’ve done in my life.

Would I research it? Yes.

Would I immediately jump to the conclusion that I am and always have been a fictional character AND be just as immediately cool with it?

I’m going to have to answer with a “probably not.”

But what do I know. My main gripe with the episodes is that they’re not making me laugh. If I laugh, I don’t care what kind of crappy plot they hang the jokes on. If I’m NOT laughing, I’m much more aware of what the episode isn’t bothering to do.

Having watched both parts together now I must admit this new modern Dwarf is feeling more natural then it did 24 hours ago. Infact if a full series was made like this with the more mature characters and lack of laughter track, I wouldn’t mind at all!

Of course a proper series [presuming it’d be Series X] would have to be based on Dwarf, but I’m sure they’ll end up there before the end of Part 3.

Like Phil, my main problem is the lack of humour. I’m not going to discuss that any further though because no matter how many times I say it some people still insist on interpreting my feelings as just hating on the show. Fair enough. Whatever. You clearly fail to grasp the simple premise that I want a comedy show to be funny.

So let’s talk about something else, shall we? Here’s a big plot point that stuck out horribly for me tonight – did nobody else think the idea of Kryten telling Lister that Kochanski was dead if she really wasn’t was also out of character? To lie to that extent – when we’ve seen before that Kryten still struggles with lying unless his behaviour protocols have been disabled. And what was all that stuff the kids were saying about Lister drinking himself to death and basically becoming despondent and depressed BEFORE her supposed death? Surely this is how he would become AFTER he learned Kochanski had died? And based on how she was portrayed in series VII and VIII, is it even remotely credible that Kochanski would be the kind of person to do a runner if a friend was falling to pieces and needed help?

This is presuming that we’re now aware Red Dwarf is a TV Show, so plot goes out the window. Infact the ‘plot’ could be that she wanted to be written out, and so that’s how the ‘writers’ wrote Kochanski out.

Plus Kryten has been able to lie in the past quite a few times. Whether it’s to Camile, or the Psychiatric Councilor. Plus in 9 years his abilities will have grown in strength probably… also, it’s part of the ‘plot’ we’re meant to believe has already been written.

Normal logic goes out the window once you remember the plot, is that Dwarf is scripted. And that what is now a plot, is infact meant to be geniune… ooo my head hurts…

Could it be that the reason they are acting out of character and bad things are happening seemingly without rhyme or reason is because somebody eeeeevil has sabotaged the writing of the show (kidnapped Doug Naylor?), which will become evident in Pt 3?

And the final battle will be the Dwarfers attempting to remove the evil writer/producer and reinstalling the real world status quo before the eeeeevil writer, having taken perverse pleasure in bringing them to their lowest ebb, has the chance to kill them.

That’s why Kryten pushed Kochanski out of an air lock (assumption), that’s why Lister was miserable and drinking himself to death BEFORE Kochanski died, that’s why Rimmer died AGAIN for the third time, that’s why Holly was destroyed, that’s why they act out of character, that’s why a leviathan and Katerina just popped up out of nowhere and nobody questioned it… in recent times, they have become puppets on the string of an evil writer.

There are a lot of unanswered questions, and although i enjoyed the episodes very much, i will admit like i said above that the last episode has a lot of questions to answer, and i really don’t think it’ll manage anywhere near answering all of them in the 30 minute slot. Unless it does another ‘To be Continued in another 10 years….’. Which i’m guessing it probably might :)

Besides, I’m sure by the conclusion all of this will have been forgotten by the crew. Afterall I really can’t see the product working in future if the crew are always aware that they are television characters. It’s a fair enough conclusion if it were the full stop at the end of the Red Dwarf timeline, but seeing it’s meant to be left open at the end [as in a new series is plausable] I’m sure this will all be covered up eventually.

> Unless it does another ?To be Continued in another 10 years?.?. Which i?m guessing it probably might :)

Should that happen, I predict emergency rooms across the UK will be inundated with Red Dwarf fans suffering from skull fractures as a direct result of banging their heads repeatedly against walls in frustration.

I love that whenever they want to do a topical gag, they used to stick in ‘In the latter half of the 20th century…..’, now they’re saying ‘In the early part of the 21st Century…’ See Rimmers X-Factor gag and Listers bank gag for details :)

Si, I’m glad you enjoyed the episode mate. I am. I don’t want or need you to care about what I think. But there’s nothing wrong with discussing praise and criticism on a fan site. Please don’t think I’m trying to be a killjoy, okay? I was so excited about these episodes and I’m saddened that they haven’t done anything for me. But they did for you – so that’s what counts.

More worrying than the cuts that I?ve found personally, but I?m led to believe I?m in a minority, is that I can hear the 1 semitone increment in sound between NTSC and PAL. I spent a bit of time in the States, where I first watched most of my Trek?then I came home and bought the R2 sets of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. As PAL is played back faster (25FPS as oppose to 23.9?or whatever it is), I notice the higher pitched voices. It still bugs me even now. I play music you see?.so I notice slight shifts in tone. Apparently most people can?t tell. It?s a right pisser if you can though. The Doctor on Voyager sounds like a bloody chipmunk! LOL :)

I can hear it too. It’s very noticeable on my PAL Battlestar Galactica ’04 DVDs, particularly as I first discovered the show when a co-worker lent me his NTSC Region 1 DVDs.

> And what was all that stuff the kids were saying about Lister drinking himself to death and basically becoming despondent and depressed BEFORE her supposed death? Surely this is how he would become AFTER he learned Kochanski had died?

I wonder if The Samaritans hand out that advice when people call in because they are worried about a loved one.

`Simply fake your own death and he`ll turn that frown upside down in no time.` :-)

I don`t think that the plotholes will all be put down to some evil writer on the show as the equilibrium will probably be restored by the end. The crew must come to realise this is all an illusion or it would be ridiculously shit.

I wish they examined more what they thought about their fictional counterparts, like when Rimmer disputes his supposed neuroses at the bus stop. For me that was the funniest part of the episode. And I don’t find the real-world references as amusing as the rest of you, I guess. Mainly cuz there’s not a lot of skill to it.

Also, I have to echo the concern that they were far too accepting of their situation, given they were in an alternate reality and everything they’ve been through – it didn’t even merit a discussion. Instead they took turns having ‘hilarious’ reactions.

I doubt it’s an illusion, it’s just a product of the dimension they are in. When they return to their own dimension, there’s no question of them ever having been fictional characters there in their own time, just in the crazy dimension of BtE.

What about the photos in the background of the scene with Rimmer and Lister infront of the Bunk Beds (in Smashers) – over Listers shoulder on the wall is a framed photo of “Listers father” from series 1/2 (the pic of the dog on a lead) “HE’Syour father!”

Well, after catching the repeat viewing, I’m still unimpressed personally. The writing just feels lackluster. The characters aren’t acting naturally, they feel like they’re just pawns being moved from A to B to C with no real rhyme or reason. They don’t question or challenge their situation, just blind acceptance with no conflict. There’s a tonne of implied back story that’s happened between Only The Good… and BTE, but it’s not been adequately explained or explored – and without that slant on things, it really detracts from Lister’s story. We’d care more if we saw (or at least had more in-depth info on) what’s affected him.

In fact, so far at least, the plot even feels like a re-tread. The League of Gentlemen’s Apocalypse has already done a similar set up, only with better jokes and execution. Red Dwarf itself has done a variant of this ‘alternate world’ story better and more effectively already in Back To Reality.

And it feels padded, even if the episodes seem to whizz by so quickly. I’m starting to think this maybe would have been better as the original two parter.

The comedy is by the numbers, generic “wry smile, but that’s it” gags. There’s no real mining of any of the inherent comedic situations. In the comic shop, in the mall, on the bus, on the tube, there was a treasure trove of possible situations – but it was barely broached, just stuffed with bored one liners. But then again at least there was some comedy in it, unlike the comedy wasteland of part one.

On the plus side, the cast seem to be having fun, even if they’ve fallen into the trap of overplaying things, trying to deliver each line comedicly instead of delivering funny material straightly (although in all fairness, this started in areas of series VII and most of series VIII…). The production values continue to be spectacular though, very very well done. Great visuals, great sound, loads of specific fan easter eggs that aren’t intrusive… in this area, Red Dwarf has never been better.

Unfortunately, the greatest production values and background detailing in the world are for naught if the writing’s not up to scratch… and it’s not, quite frankly. The writing is the biggest stumbling block. Doug Naylor needs a strict script editor, or Rob Grant. I just don’t think his sole efforts can quite reach it.

People will argue that Red Dwarf needs to evolve, but the evolution needs to benefit the show, not hinder it… and removing the laugh track really hurts it, and wipes a lot of energy from the show.

Maybe part three will redeem it for me. But that’s a BIG maybe.

What really chafes my nuts, is that I wanted to love this new show to bits. I wanted to be able to embrace a worthy, hilarious, character led return to form with this new addition to the Dwarf universe, and in my opinion, it just doesn’t measure up. I’m a huge Dwarf fan, I’ll always love the show… but these new ones just aren’t doing it for me… and I hate that… but that’s the way it is. I’ll be watching part three, out of a car crash mentality… I’ll be buying the DVD (mainly because I’m a completist, and I know it’ll have awesome bonus bits). I’ll always want more new Dwarf, in the hope that it’ll get better, but on the back of this… *sigh*.

I’m glad some people are getting kicks out of this and enjoying though. I don’t see how, but I’m glad others are getting something positive out of it.

>And what was all that stuff the kids were saying about Lister drinking himself to death and basically becoming despondent and depressed BEFORE her supposed death? Surely this is how he would become AFTER he learned Kochanski had died?

Apparently, you’ve never lived with an alcoholic. They don’t have to be depressed or need a reason to drink. And obviously, yes, he’s somewhat depressed about her being gone, but we really don’t have a clue as to how he’s been coping with it other than visiting her grave. There’s a lot of backstory there we just don’t know. I agree with others in this instance about the story have more of a book feel to this situation, because there is more to Lister’s character that hasn’t been put on screen. Obviously, we can’t judge the situation on what little we’ve seen and been told. Hopefully, if there are any future episodes, we’ll get more of a story here.

> Apparently, you?ve never lived with an alcoholic. They don?t have to be depressed or need a reason to drink.

Do they have to have their friends fake their own deaths in order to recover?

It may transpire that that isn`t really what happened to Kochanski at all but within this episode it didn`t work at all imo opinion. Doug might explain all of these plotholes and problems with characterization in the last ep but it really wouldn`t excuse certain things.

I think the real criticism of the episode is the way Rimmer killed Katrina. I can see RImmer doing that, but I’d have thought Lister or the others would have been torn up about murder, even of another hologram (as they were in Waxworld), even when the nasty hologram tried to justify doing the same to Rimmer. I know there are time constrains but that made me feel a bit awkward, because it was a bit nasty.

I certainly don`t think the lack of a laugh track is the only problem but it is definitely as issue.

Many of the jokes have been very typically sitcom and would have suited an audience. There is very little that wouldn`t have suited an audience so far actually. It could only have helped the actors` performances too.

On watching for about the fourth time this morning I noticed that the music in the Nose World sequence is a lovely little homage to the Bladerunner soundtrack. Not surprising, I suppose, but it made me smile.

> I think the real criticism of the episode is the way Rimmer killed Katrina …..

But Rimmer was explicitly exonerated – she said it herself, “morally, ethically, hologram killing fine”.
Besides, it was so goddamn funny, and a lovely little nod to Final Destination.
And wasn’t she going to erase Rimmer and nuke his hard disk? So technically it’s self-defence.

I dont find how Krytens behaviour in events BEFORE BTE can be called out of character, since we have’nt seen exactly what happened. Kryten has ALWAYS disliked Kochanski, only in prison did he swallow his pride. I find It perfectly fine for the events that have ‘aparently’ occured with Kryten and Kochanski to have happened happened. What’s OUT of character about It?

Well Kochanski may have just intended to disappear rather than Kryten make up another story but does any of it really ring true? In Series VIII these characters were all pantomime figures and now they`re no different. Doug has just shoved 2 moving scenes into the stories so far but the plots don`t flow at all and the original characters are nowhere to be seen.

> Im seriously fucked off with the constant criticism of the comedy in BTE. There was NOTHING wrong with that line atall.

It`s all a matter of opinion isn`t it. That is an old joke and not exactly a subtle one. If some people didn`t like it then they`re are just as much entitled to their opinions as you surely.

I have read the review though and I obviously disagree with her Katerina/Leviathan comment because she missed the point there (so did the characters though unfortunately unless this is another thing which still needs to be cleared up).

She wrongly uses the term `canned laughter` but she is right that the shows should have had a laugh track.

Her comments that Doug shouldn`t do any more are correct imo. Certainly not on his own like this unless it is the movie script which he has had a decade to perfect. Doug is trying to do Rob`s and Ed`s jobs as well as his own and he isn`t up to that (the one thing Norman was right about). If Dwarf were to continue then I think he`d need a solid script editor at least to curb his sometimes dire ideas.

OK my Brain went on overdrive last night after that episode.
Probably tangenting totally but I was wondering if the Blade Runner reference is a hint as to what is going on.
Didn’t they collect living things in Blade Runner as they were precious? Maybe Lister is considered precious?
I just thought why has Katerinas activation not been explained and also the fact that two hard light holograms were able to exist on the same ship. Also Kryton wasn’t given the chance to dish the dirt on her. She knew how to create the time skid (is that right) from the tenticle.
Also why does she put down Rimmer for the one reason he was placed there (to Keep Lister sane) and want to destroy his files?
Next, Why are the kids trying to turn Lister against Kryton? and make him think that Kochanski didn’t want to know him anymore.
Is Cat really the Cat? Now this one is stretching it ! Why is he making those origami things. They seem like Gingerbread, is someone tracking him?

OK pick holes and discuss, I wonder what others think.

I can’t wait to see tonights show.

Sorry if people here are on every board like me cos I’m just posting this everywhere. I’m like an over excitable kid! LOL

I doubt it?s an illusion, it?s just a product of the dimension they are in. When they return to their own dimension, there?s no question of them ever having been fictional characters there in their own time, just in the crazy dimension of BtE.

Thing is, when Katarina activated the dimension cutter, “INVALID DIMENSION” appeared on the screen. This was obviously while they were still in their own universe. This was followed by something else along the lines (and this is paraphrased) “FINDING NEXT AVAILABLE REALITY”.

So not only did the dimension cutter detect their reality as invalid, it did it before connecting to ‘our world’,* so we can’t argue that influences from that world were bleeding through to their own reality. The connection was made as a result of finding their own universe fake.

Therefore, for them to still be non-fictional characters in their own reality, it all has to be an illusion of some kind. The only other possibility is that they indeed are fiction, along with their universe, but they still somehow can exist…. (Which is sort of true when you think of the idea of creativity and characters taking on a life of their own.)

This is intriguing interesting stuff. Despite all the criticism, much of which I think is relevant, I think Doug’s actual plotting is very good. This is probably one of the most complex stories he has ever written.

I agree that maybe the characters accepted their fate as ‘fictional beings’ too quickly without questioning it, but I suspect that this is a time factor. With 3 small episodes they just have to keep the story moving. I really hope that there’ll be other material included on the DVDs that will make the cut a bit more substantial. From what I’ve learnt from Robert Llewellyn’s tweets, the version they saw at the premier was a bit different, a bit longer, which is positive.

The Bladerunner stuff is way too heavy handed though. I like a bit of parody. (I.e.the Termi-scan stuff in Out of Time. The Star-trek technobabble in Tikka to Ride, etc, but the those were little homages. This felt like a blatant rip in places. Part of me got a geeky thrill out of recognizing stuff and seeing it translated into a more mundane situation. (I.e Cat pulling his coat off of the old man for example because it was his, which was actually a kind of Roy Batty torture scene in Blade Runner). It would have been brilliant as a scene from a sketch show, but should it be in Red Dwarf?

* I say ‘our world’ for want of a better term as we know it’s not strictly our world what with two other series of Red Dwarf, etc. Maybe ‘Meta-world’ would be a better term.

It’s a shame that we lost over half the audience. However, that figure is still pretty substantial for a digital channel isn’t it? I wonder if the third instalment will lose more? On one hand, some people might have been turned off by the meta stuff (which I personally liked, but I know it’s quite a dividing point.) On the other hand, even if they’re smegged off, likely they’ll be intrigued as to the outcome and they only have one more episode to go. It’s a good thing they showed the Coronation Street scene right at the end of the episode. That will probably hook in even the most pessimistic of viewers.

Regarding the ease with which the crew seem to be accepting their situation… anyone think this might actually be a plot point, and related to the ease with which they accepted Katerina’s sudden appearance? Such as… something else going on which is making them highly suggestible? Might also explain Cat’s origami, or even the fact that they didn’t seem to notice themselves on TV in the electronics store…

It could be a plot point but that would mean that Doug intended to make the first couple of eps seem worse than they actually were before revealing the truth in the final episode. A dangerous plan if he didn`t want to lose viewers.

i hope there is a good reason for why they accepted their situation so easy, as i hated the bit where they are looking at the dvds going “it shows all out adventures”, as after so many years in space that was abit wierd

i hope we find out all this aint real otherwise i will never be able to see this as cannon

no matter how funny a few scenes were, i wouldnt be able to take the comic relief sketch seriously :(

Poor Bobby, i love how much he cares about the show. I think people will be much happier with whats going on once they’ve seen tonight’s episode. We are meant to be wondering what the fuck is going on but some people don’t seem to like that.

Im seriously fucked off with the constant criticism of the comedy in BTE.

You’re not the only person to have done it Thomas, but this did leap out at me – and I think it’s important to clarify this now. The discussion about BtE has been relatively civil so far – but if we start getting angry at someone else for simply having a different opinion, things could rapidly deteriorate.

Si, I?m glad you enjoyed the episode mate. I am. I don?t want or need you to care about what I think. But there?s nothing wrong with discussing praise and criticism on a fan site. Please don?t think I?m trying to be a killjoy, okay? I was so excited about these episodes and I?m saddened that they haven?t done anything for me. But they did for you – so that?s what counts.

You basically saying that you’re glad I enjoyed it, but you didn’t, is exactly the same as me saying that it’s a shame that no-one else seemed to enjoy it as much as me. There’s no need to pick my comment out like that (and, fair enough, I’m doing now).

I’ve been around here long enough to know that people have very different, very strong opinions. No probs.

I am beginning to think now that part 3 may be… hmm. There seems to be too much to resolve in twenty-something minutes. Then again I suppose it depends how long they stay on Coronation Street…

Also, another thing I forgot to mention was enjoying the camera tracking Kryten as he came sliding along the floor out of the portal and having to track back because it went too far. I liked that touch.

I’m thinking everything before the ad break will be Corrie based, and then they’ll leave in carbug before the [lack of] ad bumper. And then when we return after the break it’ll be into the chase and the resolve with Katrina.

You know, I understand that maybe it’s considered a sci-fi classic, but I’ve never seen Blade Runner… a lot of Red Dwarf fans, I’d venture, have never seen Blade Runner… and its decades old too. What a strange reference to base a whole three-part episode around.

If it was ONE episode of a 6 or 8 episode series, then fine. Even if the references were heavy handed.

I’m just glad that Pt 1 steered quite clear of that territory. For me, Pt 1 represents an evolution of Dwarf that I want a piece of. I’d like to see more just like it (but longer, and self-contained). Pt 2 represents something I’m not quite getting… I often worry about certain episodes of Dwarf alienating casual viewers due to back referencing and running gags… but I never expected to be alienated as a viewer myself, as an actual Red Dwarf fan!

And I havn’t seen Alien, or Casablanca, or most of the other films referenced over the years either, yet it was still accessible to me. BtE Pt 2… not so much.

I still liked the character stuff… Cat crying made me laugh… some of the sci-fi in-jokes were great… whatever you may say about the subtext of Rimmer killing Katerina, it was still a well-timed sight gag… the scene with the kids on the bus which harked us back to some actual Red Dwarf developments rather than a Blade Runner spoof, I am actually interested in the background of Kochanski’s death/disappearance as a result… Carbug would have been more amusing if we hadn’t seen it already, but no doubt got a big laugh from those who have avoided ALL spoilers and details in the run up to the new episodes…

I think for me, take away the most blatant Blade Runner stuff, and Pt 2 was a great episode…

> You know when Noddy said that dimension skids happen a lot. Has coronation street and the Blade runner film both skidded into this reality as well.

Yeah, I’m thinking that Coronation Street is a real place in this episode, considering there were actual people waiting at a bus stop, and they just drove onto the street. I’m thinking it’s a universe where reality and fiction have become warped. That’s why nobody really blinked an eyelid when they popped out of the TVs.

We could well see Lister, Lloyd Mullaney and Craig Charles all in one scene! Rimmer, Chris Barrie and Gordon Brittas? Cat, Danny John-Jules, and Barrington? Kryten, Robert Llewellyn and… ummm… that one legged guy off Bottom??

I considered watching it before BtE, knowing there would be SOME referencing (didn’t realise THIS much) but never got a good chance to watch it. Hmmm… how long is it? I could maybe squeeze it in now, if I can find it online, before Pt 3…

>We could well see Lister, Lloyd Mullaney and Craig Charles all in one scene! Rimmer, Chris Barrie and Gordon Brittas? Cat, Danny John-Jules, and Barrington? Kryten, Robert Llewellyn and? ummm? that one legged guy off Bottom??

If we see Brittas this will become an instant favourite of mine! :P
And as for Kryten there’s every chance we could end up salvaging Carbug parts on a scrapheap? Probably not but it’s the most likely tie in for Llewellyn.

> We could well see Lister, Lloyd Mullaney and Craig Charles all in one scene! Rimmer, Chris Barrie and Gordon Brittas? Cat, Danny John-Jules, and Barrington? Kryten, Robert Llewellyn and? ummm? that one legged guy off Bottom??

I would just love this – but all in the last half hour? And resolve the story, too? They’d never fit it all in.

I thought this was SO much better than Part 1. Part 1 felt really laboured to me, and, sadly wasn’t very funny. Part 2 had some really brilliant gags – I LOVED the Cat yearning for a metaphysical experience, and that was one of the throwaway jokes!

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