I'd like to ordain as a monk at Wat Pah Nanachat some day. But now I became a bit anxious, because...

I went to a dermatologist, and it turned out, that I have several birthmarks on my head (naevus pigmentosus). There is no problem with them, there is no sign that they will turn into melanoma. But it is definitely not advisable to shave my head, because if they injured it can be dangerous. So I can’t shave my head completely, not even with a hair clipper, because it can injure them too.

Unless ill — e.g., he has a sore on his head — a bhikkhu may not use scissors to cut his hair or have it cut. The question of using electric razors to shave the head is a controversial one. Because their cutting action — even in rotary shavers — is like that of scissors, many Communities will not allow their use in shaving the head.

Is it possible to take it as a ‘sore’, so I can use scissors? What does the Community of Wat Pah Nanachat think about that (I mean do they use electric razors)?

Hi 5KHave you tried contacting Wat Pah Nanachat? That might be the way to go.And I'm sure there will be a solution to your situation.All the best,

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

I was talking to Ajahn Jac (an Aussie monastic - not sure of his full name) at the Mitra Conference - I went to ask him why his head appeared to have a very short growth of hair and why he seemed to have an equallly short beard. His reply was that the Vinaya allows two knuckles length of hair on the head and face. He reminded me that in the Buddha's time hair-cutting implements were rather crude and couldn't get much shorter than that.

with mettaChris

---The trouble is that you think you have time------Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe------It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

I'm not sure, but I'll go to the dermatologist again anyway, so perhaps I'll ask her. But for all I know, they don't like to ablate birthmarks, if not necessary (if they don't seem to turn into melanoma, for example). Also there are about 9 on my head - I don't know what the doctor would say, if I'd like to have all of them ablated.Anyway, thanks for your idea!

I would think this almost certainly rules out wat Pah Nanachaat, and possibly Theravada ordination in general.

You could try asking at different monasteries, you'd probably get better advice contacting one of the western branch manasteries.

I'd think about going Mahayana, or looking for a way to practice long term as a laymen rather than at wat Pah Nanachaat.

“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

Luckily ordination as a Theravadin Monk is not necessarily a prerequisite for enlightenment.

“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

I was talking to Ajahn Jac (an Aussie monastic - not sure of his full name) at the Mitra Conference - I went to ask him why his head appeared to have a very short growth of hair and why he seemed to have an equallly short beard. His reply was that the Vinaya allows two knuckles length of hair on the head and face. He reminded me that in the Buddha's time hair-cutting implements were rather crude and couldn't get much shorter than that.

with mettaChris

Really? Two knuckles length of hair on the head and face? Which means you can basically grow a beard.

Hair of the head. The hair of the head should not be worn long. It should be shaved at least every two months or when the hair has grown to a length of two fingerbreadths — whichever occurs first, says the Commentary. In Thailand there is the custom that all bhikkhus shave their heads on the same day, the day before the full moon, so that the Community can present a uniform appearance. Although this is not obligatory, a bhikkhu who does not follow the custom tends to stand out from his fellows.

In thailand you're up against local custom more than the Vinaya in this regard.

And this

Unless ill — e.g., he has a sore on his head — a bhikkhu may not use scissors to cut his hair or have it cut. The question of using electric razors to shave the head is a controversial one. Because their cutting action — even in rotary shavers — is like that of scissors, many Communities will not allow their use in shaving the head.

“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

your comment about shaving/trimming eyebrows reminded me that Quinn decided to shave his eyebrows off about a week ago. We found out after the fact. Previously he told me, one day out of the blue, that he wanted to become a monk. I'm just wondering how much of it is my influence or something deeper.Who knows!kind regards

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Goofaholix wrote:Unless ill — e.g., he has a sore on his head — a bhikkhu may not use scissors to cut his hair or have it cut.

Yes, I've already quote that, and I'm hoping that birthmarks can take as 'illness' (a sore is just an example, so there have to be other cases), so I'll be able to use scissors and cut my hair to a minimum lenght.

Goofaholix wrote:I would think this almost certainly rules out wat Pah Nanachaat, and possibly Theravada ordination in general.

I hope this is not true - it would be a nonsense. To turn someone down from ordination, and ruin a potantially fruitful holy life, just because of a few millimeter hair!

I just cannot imgaine that the Buddha would have done such a thing. And because the monks at Wat Pah Nanachat are good disciples of the Buddha, I'm still hoping...

(Or the monks became so rigid about the Vinaya, and they cling so much to rites and rituals - no, no, no, I can't believe that.)

If I were asked, I would say that it's all a game...a crazy, crazy, game...the holy life takes place between our ears, not wrapped in a sheet (like I am)...I wish you well in your endeavor, but I would also like to say that the holy life can be led in, or out of, the robes...

5Khandas wrote:I hope this is not true - it would be a nonsense. To turn someone down from ordination, and ruin a potantially fruitful holy life, just because of a few millimeter hair!

I just cannot imgaine that the Buddha would have done such a thing. And because the monks at Wat Pah Nanachat are good disciples of the Buddha, I'm still hoping...

(Or the monks became so rigid about the Vinaya, and they cling so much to rites and rituals - no, no, no, I can't believe that.)

Metta

If ordaining at Wat Pah Nanachat were the only way to get enlightened then what you say would be true, there are other options you could consider there are other ways to lead the holy life.

I might be wrong about this it might not be a big deal so it's worth asking them, but remember this is a place that asks male visitors to shave their head after 3 days and they get a lot of people who rock up there wanting to ordain but find they can't fit in for one reason or another.

Just consider if you do find a place to ordain then want to travel around different wats as monks usually do you'll need to keep explaining your situation again and again with the language barrier also

“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

Goofaholix wrote:Just consider if you do find a place to ordain then want to travel around different wats as monks usually do you'll need to keep explaining your situation again and again with the language barrier also

I think I would get along with it somehow

Yes, it is possible to live some kind of 'holy life' without ordaining, but that is not enough for me. I keep complete celibacy, for example, so I try to do that as much as I can now.But I can't imgaine to live my whole life as a layman... I just can't do that; I don't have the vaguest aspiration for anything you can get in/from the lay life. It is really very hard to live a lay life, when wherever you see, or whatever you do, just one thought come up your mind again and again: it's useless. It's impermanent, it's no me or mine, so why should I 'have' or 'get' it ? (I know what you'll think/reply: then live your lay life without clinging. But if you see deeply into that, it'll become clear that the whole lay life is about clinging.)