Lance Armstrong smeared him for it, as he did everyone else. Lance Armstrong is so much worse than any of the dopers in baseball. He ran a doping ring, forced all his teammates to dope, sued those who exposed his doping for defamation, assassinated the characters of all who tried to speak the truth, and lied during a deposition.

Lance Armstrong apologizes now that the statute of limitations on perjury has run.

Armstrong not only destroyed the credibility of cycling, he also stole careers from legitimate competitors.

No. Anyone who follows sports knows that nearly all of these dudes were doping, and are still dope in the off season. Nearly all football and baseball players dope in the off season, when they aren't being tested, then lay off the roids and HGH when they know the drug tests are going to be administered. To think that cycling is any different, is just plain stupid. But, it's also stupid to think that he was doing anything different than what anyone else was doing, even if he was the ring leader. Fringe professional sports bank off of these things, and they're likely to be complicit regarding any excitement that is geared towards their piggy bank.

To say that "Nobody cares about watching sports that are corrupted by cheating" is also bogus and retarded, since the popularity of baseball increased enormously during the Bonds/McGuire/Sosa roid era.

The fact is that all of these athletes, amongst a host of stars in various fields, are jacking themselves up during the off-season, turning themselves into human robot machines, and churning out a high entertainment value quality product. Concerning baseball and football, specifically, everyone knows they're roiding. It's what it takes.

Creating an even playing field at this point is a joke. I say, let's see how much entertainment value we can get out of this.

^^ yeah, I believe this is mostly how it is. So many of these sports are full of performance enhancing drugs... that the argument can be made that you SHOULD be on them to be at a level playing field - I believe that's what Armstrong argued, anyway.

I'd like to see an actual list of substances and doses he's "guilty" of using.

^^ yeah, I believe this is mostly how it is. So many of these sports are full of performance enhancing drugs... that the argument can be made that you SHOULD be on them to be at a level playing field - I believe that's what Armstrong argued, anyway.

He certainly did not argue this. He argued that he wasn't doping, and that those who accused him of doping were civilly liable for the falsehood of their accusations.

Only seven years after he testified under oath otherwise does he admit the extent and severity of his doping.

Again, if you think Armstrong's misbehavior begins and ends at simply taking performance-enhancing drugs, you probably also mistake Oprah for a journalist.

HARASSMENT ACCUSATIONS Did you ever have any concern about disparaging and harassing so many of the people who claimed you had doped, like the Andreus, the former bicycle mechanic and personal assistant Mike Anderson, the former masseuse Emma OíReilly or LeMond and his wife, Kathy?

The Andreus testified in a 2005 civil case that you had admitted to drug use in the Indianapolis hospital room in 1996, and you subsequently called them liars. Frankie Andreu said he had trouble keeping jobs within cycling because you had blackballed him for speaking out. Is it true that you used your power in cycling to try to crush him and his family?

You called OíReilly a prostitute and an alcoholic and harassed Anderson so much that he and his family had to flee Austin, Tex., for New Zealand. LeMond claimed you sought to destroy his bike company by pressuring the manufacturer of those bikes, Trek Bicycle Corporation, to undermine him.

Do you regret anything you said or did to those people? How will make amends with them?

BRIBERY ACCUSATIONS At least two riders have claimed that you bribed officials at the International Cycling Union, cyclingís world governing body, to cover up a positive drug test at the 2001 Tour of Switzerland. If that is true, whose idea was that bribe and how did the transaction occur? Were Pat McQuaid, the cycling unionís president, or Hein Verbruggen, the unionís honorary president involved?

The investment banker Thom Weisel is one of the defendants named in a federal whistle-blower lawsuit that was filed by Floyd Landis, one of your former teammates. Landis said that Weisel and other principals of the United States Postal Service team, including you, used taxpayer dollars to fund the teamís doping when doping constituted a violation of the sponsorship contract.

How much did Weisel know about the teamís doping? He also has been an integral part of USA Cycling, the sportís national governing body. Did officials within that organization have any knowledge of your drug program? Did they ever question you about the doping accusations that have dogged you for more than a decade?

^^ yeah, I believe this is mostly how it is. So many of these sports are full of performance enhancing drugs... that the argument can be made that you SHOULD be on them to be at a level playing field - I believe that's what Armstrong argued, anyway.

I'd like to see an actual list of substances and doses he's "guilty" of using.

It's like Hollywood actors who "get in shape" for movies. Many of them use performance enhancing drugs to achieve the results. One would have to be naive to think that they wouldn't when they've got multi-million dollar contracts at stake.

^^ yeah, I believe this is mostly how it is. So many of these sports are full of performance enhancing drugs... that the argument can be made that you SHOULD be on them to be at a level playing field - I believe that's what Armstrong argued, anyway.

He certainly did not argue this. He argued that he wasn't doping, and that those who accused him of doping were civilly liable for the falsehood of their accusations.

Only seven years after he testified under oath otherwise does he admit the extent and severity of his doping.

Again, if you think Armstrong's misbehavior begins and ends at simply taking performance-enhancing drugs, you probably also mistake Oprah for a journalist.

Sorry, to be clear - I have not watched the Oprah interview... but the quotes I've seen from it indicated that he felt he was "competing on a level playing field" when he was doping - that he didn't view it as cheating, because he felt everyone was doing it.

THAT is what I was referring to.

12ax7 wrote:

Captain Corea wrote:

^^ yeah, I believe this is mostly how it is. So many of these sports are full of performance enhancing drugs... that the argument can be made that you SHOULD be on them to be at a level playing field - I believe that's what Armstrong argued, anyway.

I'd like to see an actual list of substances and doses he's "guilty" of using.

It's like Hollywood actors who "get in shape" for movies. Many of them use performance enhancing drugs to achieve the results. One would have to be naive to think that they wouldn't when they've got multi-million dollar contracts at stake.

Absolutely. Not only do they have "trainers" at their disposal... but they've got everything else available to them as well. The thing is though... you'll never hear of tests for this sort of thing. No one is going to ask Hue Jackman to pee in a cup for anabolics... but his added muscle will be on posters pulling ppl into the theaters.

Personally, I like how the sport of bodybuilding does it. You've got tested events, and .... non-tested events. Want to compete "clean" - go into the tested events. Don't give a toss, do the other ones.

I've made no secret on this forum about my previous use of anabolics - and have no moral judgement about those who do use them. BUT, I agree that it should be out in the open. No need for secrets, IMO.

Personally, I like how the sport of bodybuilding does it. You've got tested events, and .... non-tested events. Want to compete "clean" - go into the tested events. Don't give a toss, do the other ones.

I've made no secret on this forum about my previous use of anabolics - and have no moral judgement about those who do use them. BUT, I agree that it should be out in the open. No need for secrets, IMO.

I'm with this. Have an "open league" in which people can take whatever they want and a separate league that has strict tests.

The issue with "natural bodybuilding" though, I understand, is that they only test for steroids- natural bodybuilders still take some hardcore stimulants (ephedrine, yohimbine, clenbuterol, and mass doses of caffeine).