Sorry. I have had time to post / respond here in a few days but I will soon.

In the meantime, some of you might want to note that Martin's autopsy found he had THC in his blood and that he was therefore smoking some hootch the night of his attack on Zimmerman and his subsequent death. I don't have the link handy but it's been all over the news.

First of all, the fact that THC was in his system is irrelevant. Second, it doesn't mean he smoked that day. That stuff stays in your system for at least a couple weeks after smoking. So it could have been the day of, or it could have been a week or two earlier. Either way, it shouldn't matter. It has nothing to do with what happened.

We said TDJ. And also, the last time I heard someone use the word "hootch" was in reference to booze / alcohol, not cannabis :confused:

Hootch / Hooch is normally used as a slang for Moonshine but it's also a street term for Marijuana. (If you're hip like me).

As for TDJ's comment, "It has nothing to do with what happened." ...I'm agast that either of you could say / think that. wjb's response said it all...

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Wrong, it at least shows that this 17 yr old kid hung out with drug dealers, bought drugs illegally, or smoked weed with "the wrong crowd." It is character evidence that Martin is not an "innocent 15 yr old kid." FWIW - his twitter name was "no_limit_nigga" and he regularly tweeted about sex, violence, disrespecting women, and bs ghetto gang affiliated comments.

Well said wjb.

I suppose you guys will also claim that the multiple suspensions; marijuana possession; burglary tools; stolen jewelry items; episode of graffiti; all have no relevance to Martin's character or what he was doing that night either.

Again, I just don't have time to do this subject justice. I'm sorry. But there's a ton of evedence to show that certain media sources have protected this kids 'image' and shaped the minds of many people. Not to mention the jury pool.

_________________

May 21st, 2012, 11:47 am

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12278

Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman

LionFan57 wrote:

TheRealWags wrote:

the last time I heard someone use the word "hootch" was in reference to booze / alcohol, not cannabis

Hootch / Hooch is normally used as a slang for Moonshine but it's also a street term for Marijuana. (If you're hip like me).

Apparently I'm not as hip as you are as I've only heard it as referencing Moonshine

LionFan57 wrote:

I suppose you guys will also claim that the multiple suspensions; marijuana possession; burglary tools; stolen jewelry items; episode of graffiti; all have no relevance to Martin's character or what he was doing that night either.

Martin's priors have just as much to do with his character as Hernandez's priors have to do with his.

As for my "Well said TDJ" comment, granted I didn't highlight / bold it, but I was referring to this factual part:

Quote:

Second, it doesn't mean he smoked that day. That stuff stays in your system for at least a couple weeks after smoking. So it could have been the day of, or it could have been a week or two earlier.

Depending on the person's metabolism, THC can stay in someone's system for up to 30-45 days after consumption; therefore just being present really means nothing; Perhaps the more relevant information would've been the amount of THC found.

the last time I heard someone use the word "hootch" was in reference to booze / alcohol, not cannabis

Hootch / Hooch is normally used as a slang for Moonshine but it's also a street term for Marijuana. (If you're hip like me).

Apparently I'm not as hip as you are as I've only heard it as referencing Moonshine

LionFan57 wrote:

I suppose you guys will also claim that the multiple suspensions; marijuana possession; burglary tools; stolen jewelry items; episode of graffiti; all have no relevance to Martin's character or what he was doing that night either.

Martin's priors have just as much to do with his character as Hernandez's priors have to do with his.

As for my "Well said TDJ" comment, granted I didn't highlight / bold it, but I was referring to this factual part:

Quote:

Second, it doesn't mean he smoked that day. That stuff stays in your system for at least a couple weeks after smoking. So it could have been the day of, or it could have been a week or two earlier.

Depending on the person's metabolism, THC can stay in someone's system for up to 30-45 days after consumption; therefore just being present really means nothing; Perhaps the more relevant information would've been the amount of THC found.

I agree that it speaks to his character. Especially when combined with all the other items. I was just pointing out that finding THC in his system doesn't really indicate anything on it's own. As Wags just said, it can stay in the system a long time. Also, a teenage kid smoking some weed is hardly an indicator of hanging around with drug dealers and "the wrong crowd". If that's really what you think, I think you'd be shocked to learn of the number of kids of are "good kids" that smoke weed. Hell, the number of successful business people who smoke would also probably surprise you. It's not a terrible drug like so many make it out to be, but that's a whole other issue.

_________________"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson

May 21st, 2012, 1:04 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12278

Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman

Touchdown Jesus wrote:

Also, a teenage kid smoking some weed is hardly an indicator of hanging around with drug dealers and "the wrong crowd".

Agreed. Replace weed with alcohol and you have the typical teenager of my youth. I guess all of us that partook in underage drinking was hanging around with "the wrong crowd" as well; not too mention those that provided said alcohol were drug dealers too.

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

May 21st, 2012, 1:07 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman

Wags and TDJ - You can argue that "good kids" smoke weed in HS, but I think your interpretation of Martin's behavior and the crowd that he hung out with has to do with where (and perhaps when) you grew up than his reality. In wealthier suburban neighborhoods there are good kids that smoke weed, but that same dynamic doesn't play itself out in lower-class neighborhoods.

In the upper class neighborhoods kids that smoke weed have supportive parents (who probably also smoke weed and are successful) and going to college is a foregone conclusion for them. In the ghetto the kids have no support to start with, rarely go to college (at my school only approximately 30% went on to any sort of college, and most of it was Community College, and most of them dropped out), and for that subsect of the population weed is much more of a gateway drug that leads to "bad things." The "good kids" in the ghetto have super protective, involved parents, and they can't really get away with smoking weed.

I had one kid, one, in my HS that actually "made it" and went on to go to college, get a degree, and make something of himself that smoked weed heavily in HS, and he's now an alcoholic. He makes good money, but again, he's an alcoholic. Literally every other pothead in my school hasn't graduated college, and most are some sort of degenerate.

May 21st, 2012, 1:43 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12278

Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Wags and TDJ - You can argue that "good kids" smoke weed in HS, but I think your interpretation of Martin's behavior and the crowd that he hung out with has to do with where (and perhaps when) you grew up than his reality. In wealthier suburban neighborhoods there are good kids that smoke weed, but that same dynamic doesn't play itself out in lower-class neighborhoods.

In the upper class neighborhoods kids that smoke weed have supportive parents (who probably also smoke weed and are successful) and going to college is a foregone conclusion for them. In the ghetto the kids have no support to start with, rarely go to college (at my school only approximately 30% went on to any sort of college, and most of it was Community College, and most of them dropped out), and for that subsect of the population weed is much more of a gateway drug that leads to "bad things." The "good kids" in the ghetto have super protective, involved parents, and they can't really get away with smoking weed.

I had one kid, one, in my HS that actually "made it" and went on to go to college, get a degree, and make something of himself that smoked weed heavily in HS, and he's now an alcoholic. He makes good money, but again, he's an alcoholic. Literally every other pothead in my school hasn't graduated college, and most are some sort of degenerate.

I'm not interpreting anything about Martin's or Zimmerman's behavior, IMO I do not have enough information to do so; I was simply commenting on the cannabis portion of the discussion.

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

May 22nd, 2012, 9:59 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman

TheRealWags wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Wags and TDJ - You can argue that "good kids" smoke weed in HS, but I think your interpretation of Martin's behavior and the crowd that he hung out with has to do with where (and perhaps when) you grew up than his reality. In wealthier suburban neighborhoods there are good kids that smoke weed, but that same dynamic doesn't play itself out in lower-class neighborhoods.

In the upper class neighborhoods kids that smoke weed have supportive parents (who probably also smoke weed and are successful) and going to college is a foregone conclusion for them. In the ghetto the kids have no support to start with, rarely go to college (at my school only approximately 30% went on to any sort of college, and most of it was Community College, and most of them dropped out), and for that subsect of the population weed is much more of a gateway drug that leads to "bad things." The "good kids" in the ghetto have super protective, involved parents, and they can't really get away with smoking weed.

I had one kid, one, in my HS that actually "made it" and went on to go to college, get a degree, and make something of himself that smoked weed heavily in HS, and he's now an alcoholic. He makes good money, but again, he's an alcoholic. Literally every other pothead in my school hasn't graduated college, and most are some sort of degenerate.

I'm not interpreting anything about Martin's or Zimmerman's behavior, IMO I do not have enough information to do so; I was simply commenting on the cannabis portion of the discussion.

Wags, my whole point is, your experience with cannabis and kids that smoke/smoked weed is going to be different with someone that grew up in the ghetto.

May 22nd, 2012, 5:11 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 3955Location: Davison Mi

Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman

TheRealWags wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Wags and TDJ - You can argue that "good kids" smoke weed in HS, but I think your interpretation of Martin's behavior and the crowd that he hung out with has to do with where (and perhaps when) you grew up than his reality. In wealthier suburban neighborhoods there are good kids that smoke weed, but that same dynamic doesn't play itself out in lower-class neighborhoods.

In the upper class neighborhoods kids that smoke weed have supportive parents (who probably also smoke weed and are successful) and going to college is a foregone conclusion for them. In the ghetto the kids have no support to start with, rarely go to college (at my school only approximately 30% went on to any sort of college, and most of it was Community College, and most of them dropped out), and for that subsect of the population weed is much more of a gateway drug that leads to "bad things." The "good kids" in the ghetto have super protective, involved parents, and they can't really get away with smoking weed.

I had one kid, one, in my HS that actually "made it" and went on to go to college, get a degree, and make something of himself that smoked weed heavily in HS, and he's now an alcoholic. He makes good money, but again, he's an alcoholic. Literally every other pothead in my school hasn't graduated college, and most are some sort of degenerate.

I'm not interpreting anything about Martin's or Zimmerman's behavior, IMO I do not have enough information to do so; I was simply commenting on the cannabis portion of the discussion.

HIPPY! lol

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

May 23rd, 2012, 11:46 am

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12278

Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman

wjb21ndtown wrote:

TheRealWags wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Wags and TDJ - You can argue that "good kids" smoke weed in HS, but I think your interpretation of Martin's behavior and the crowd that he hung out with has to do with where (and perhaps when) you grew up than his reality. In wealthier suburban neighborhoods there are good kids that smoke weed, but that same dynamic doesn't play itself out in lower-class neighborhoods.

In the upper class neighborhoods kids that smoke weed have supportive parents (who probably also smoke weed and are successful) and going to college is a foregone conclusion for them. In the ghetto the kids have no support to start with, rarely go to college (at my school only approximately 30% went on to any sort of college, and most of it was Community College, and most of them dropped out), and for that subsect of the population weed is much more of a gateway drug that leads to "bad things." The "good kids" in the ghetto have super protective, involved parents, and they can't really get away with smoking weed.

I had one kid, one, in my HS that actually "made it" and went on to go to college, get a degree, and make something of himself that smoked weed heavily in HS, and he's now an alcoholic. He makes good money, but again, he's an alcoholic. Literally every other pothead in my school hasn't graduated college, and most are some sort of degenerate.

I'm not interpreting anything about Martin's or Zimmerman's behavior, IMO I do not have enough information to do so; I was simply commenting on the cannabis portion of the discussion.

Wags, my whole point is, your experience with cannabis and kids that smoke/smoked weed is going to be different with someone that grew up in the ghetto.

Let me take this one step further, my experiences in life is going to be different than someone who grew up in the ghetto.

That being said, I did not experience cannabis at all in my youth; truth be told, I was 17 before I had ever seen a 'joint' and 18 before I ever experimented.

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

May 23rd, 2012, 11:57 am

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12278

Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman

regularjoe12 wrote:

TheRealWags wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Wags and TDJ - You can argue that "good kids" smoke weed in HS, but I think your interpretation of Martin's behavior and the crowd that he hung out with has to do with where (and perhaps when) you grew up than his reality. In wealthier suburban neighborhoods there are good kids that smoke weed, but that same dynamic doesn't play itself out in lower-class neighborhoods.

In the upper class neighborhoods kids that smoke weed have supportive parents (who probably also smoke weed and are successful) and going to college is a foregone conclusion for them. In the ghetto the kids have no support to start with, rarely go to college (at my school only approximately 30% went on to any sort of college, and most of it was Community College, and most of them dropped out), and for that subsect of the population weed is much more of a gateway drug that leads to "bad things." The "good kids" in the ghetto have super protective, involved parents, and they can't really get away with smoking weed.

I had one kid, one, in my HS that actually "made it" and went on to go to college, get a degree, and make something of himself that smoked weed heavily in HS, and he's now an alcoholic. He makes good money, but again, he's an alcoholic. Literally every other pothead in my school hasn't graduated college, and most are some sort of degenerate.

I'm not interpreting anything about Martin's or Zimmerman's behavior, IMO I do not have enough information to do so; I was simply commenting on the cannabis portion of the discussion.

HIPPY! lol

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

May 23rd, 2012, 11:58 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman

Orlando Sentinal wrote:

Several George Zimmerman witnesses change their accounts

Evidence released last week in the second-degree-murder case against George Zimmerman shows four key witnesses made major changes in what they say they saw and heard the night he fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford.

Three changed their stories in ways that may damage Zimmerman. A fourth abandoned her initial story, that she saw one person chasing another. Now, she says, she saw a single figure running.

They were reinterviewed in mid-March, after Sanford police handed the case off to State Attorney Norm Wolfinger. The case changed hands again when Gov. Rick Scott passed it on to a special prosecutor. Zimmerman was arrested April 11 on a charge of second-degree murder.

Here are the key ways in which their stories changed.

Witness 2

A young woman who lives in the Retreat at Twin Lakes community, where Trayvon was shot, was interviewed twice by Sanford police and once by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

She told authorities that she had taken out her contact lenses just before the incident. In her first recorded interview with Sanford police four days after the shooting, she told lead Investigator Chris Serino, "I saw two guys running. Couldn't tell you who was in front, who was behind."

She stepped away from her window, and when she looked again, she "saw a fistfight. Just fists. I don't know who was hitting who."

A week later, she added a detail when talking again to Serino: During the chase, the two figures had been 10 feet apart.

That all changed when she was reinterviewed March 20 by an FDLE agent. That time, she recalled catching a glimpse of just one running figure, she told FDLE Investigator John Batchelor, and she heard the person more than saw him.

"I couldn't tell you if it was a man, a woman, a kid, black or white. I couldn't tell you because it was dark and because I didn't have my contacts on or glasses. … I just know I saw a person out there."

Witness 12

A young mother who is also a neighbor in the town-home community never gave a recorded interview to Sanford police, according to prosecution records released last week. She first sat down for an audio-recorded interview with an FDLE agent March 20, more than three weeks after the shooting.

During that session, she said she saw two people on the ground immediately after the shooting and was not sure who was on top, Zimmerman or Trayvon.

"I don't know which one. … All I saw when they were on the ground was dark colors," she said.

Six days later, however, she was sure: It was Zimmerman on top, she told trial prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda during a 21/2-minute recorded session.

Witness 6

This witness lived a few feet from where Trayvon and Zimmerman had their fight. On the night of the shooting, he told Serino he saw a black man on top of a lighter-skinned man "just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA-style," a reference to mixed martial arts.

He also said the one calling for help was "the one being beat up," a reference to Zimmerman.

But three weeks later, when he was interviewed by an FDLE agent, the man said he was no longer sure which one called for help.

"I truly can't tell who, after thinking about it, was yelling for help just because it was so dark out on that sidewalk," he said.

He also said he was no longer sure Trayvon was throwing punches. The teenager may have simply been keeping Zimmerman pinned to the ground, he said.

He did not equivocate, though, about who was on top.

"The black guy was on top," he said.

Witness 13

He is important because he talked with Zimmerman and watched the way he behaved immediately after the shooting, before police arrived.

After this neighbor heard gunfire, he went outside and spotted Zimmerman standing there with"blood on the back of his head," he told Sanford police the night of the shooting.

Zimmerman told him that Trayvon "was beating up on me, so I had to shoot him," the witness told Serino. The Neighborhood Watch captain then asked the witness to call his wife, Shellie Zimmerman, and tell her what happened.

In two subsequent interviews about a month later — one with an FDLE investigator and one with de la Rionda — the witness described Zimmerman's demeanor in greater detail, adding that he spoke as if the shooting were no big deal.

Zimmerman's tone, the witness said, was "not like 'I can't believe I just shot someone!' — it was more like, 'Just tell my wife I shot somebody …,' like it was nothing."

Those witnesses are likely to be interviewed at least once more before Zimmerman's trial. Defense attorneys in Florida routinely question witnesses under oath as they prepare for trial.

So much for innocent before proven guilty! With all of the evidence dumps who is really going to be able to weigh this out accurately?

If they rule in Z's favor, we have a Florida version, if not National, of the California riots. If it's in M's favor, it COULD be a travesty of justice. My point is, that Mr. and Mrs. America DO NOT NEED TO KNOW.

This is a problem I have with media, they dig, and pressure, and scream to get all the news they can, but it jeopardizes the people they are reporting about.

Case in point: Mother contacts Wal Mart asking for Silly String, seems her sun uses it along with his Marine or Army unit, to check for trip wires before entering homes in Iraq. News Media gets the story and blows it up, THUS alerting bad guys into the tactics used to keep soldiers safe from such devices.

Media has stepped all over themselves in this case, manufacturing theories and possibly insight criminal behavior around the country, because your skin is lighter than someone elses.

What a shameful country we've become in 12 years, we should change our name to the Divided States of America!

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

May 23rd, 2012, 3:46 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman

WarEr4Christ wrote:

So much for innocent before proven guilty! With all of the evidence dumps who is really going to be able to weigh this out accurately?

If they rule in Z's favor, we have a Florida version, if not National, of the California riots. If it's in M's favor, it COULD be a travesty of justice. My point is, that Mr. and Mrs. America DO NOT NEED TO KNOW.

This is a problem I have with media, they dig, and pressure, and scream to get all the news they can, but it jeopardizes the people they are reporting about.

Case in point: Mother contacts Wal Mart asking for Silly String, seems her sun uses it along with his Marine or Army unit, to check for trip wires before entering homes in Iraq. News Media gets the story and blows it up, THUS alerting bad guys into the tactics used to keep soldiers safe from such devices.

Media has stepped all over themselves in this case, manufacturing theories and possibly insight criminal behavior around the country, because your skin is lighter than someone elses.

What a shameful country we've become in 12 years, we should change our name to the Divided States of America!

I don't disagree, but I'm not sure what could be done about it. Perhaps this is a point where a thread spin-off is needed, but it would make for good discussion to delve into the role of the "news" organizations, what they mean, what their role in society is, and how to go about changing it.

There are somewhat legitimate news agencies, then there are "quasi-news sources" like TMZ, Hard Copy, etc. Agencies that almost "create" the news, and the sensationalism is out of control.

May 24th, 2012, 12:29 pm

Blueskies

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 2836

Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman

The ignorance about drug use in this topic astounds me. Smoking pot povides no clues to a person's character.

May 27th, 2012, 12:10 pm

Killwill25

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: March 5th, 2009, 8:42 pmPosts: 2312Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman

Blueskies wrote:

The ignorance about drug use in this topic astounds me. Smoking pot povides no clues to a person's character.