Borderlands 2

That attempt at logic is trash. Inventory size has no bearing on the quality of people you choose to play with. That (quality of people) is your problem, not inventory size.

The point is that I have no control over the quality of people I play with. As such, I support a strict control over inventory size, which puts me on a level playing field with everyone else.

An inventory size of 27 itself changes absolutely nothing about the actual mechanic that bothers you, as it is a human psychological mechanic not a game mechanic. Another player beating you to the drop and deciding to take it without asking you is the problem.

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As a side note, a guy I was playing with was using a hack to get legendaries off slot machines. After a while he got VAC-banned. I'm surprised (dismayed, even) they didn't do the same to people who cheated with their inventory size.

That attempt at logic is trash. Inventory size has no bearing on the quality of people you choose to play with. That (quality of people) is your problem, not inventory size.

The point is that I have no control over the quality of people I play with. As such, I support a strict control over inventory size, which puts me on a level playing field with everyone else.

An inventory size of 27 itself changes absolutely nothing about the actual mechanic that bothers you

Yes it does. Someone with an inventory size of 199 is much, much more likely to have empty slots in their inventory, which means they are more likely to be able to pick up anything that drops right away while those of us who play the game legitimately are busy clearing inventory space.

For the record, I don't find the inventory size limiting at all, and I'm almost done with PT2.

That attempt at logic is trash. Inventory size has no bearing on the quality of people you choose to play with. That (quality of people) is your problem, not inventory size.

The point is that I have no control over the quality of people I play with. As such, I support a strict control over inventory size, which puts me on a level playing field with everyone else.

An inventory size of 27 itself changes absolutely nothing about the actual mechanic that bothers you

Yes it does. Someone with an inventory size of 199 is much, much more likely to have empty slots in their inventory, which means they are more likely to be able to pick up anything that drops right away while those of us who play the game legitimately are busy clearing inventory space.

Ok, you go right on ignoring the human factor that comes before the slot size is ever relevant. When you have to cut off the rest of the quote in order to avoid acknowledging the real problem, it's clear you're not interested in identifying the root cause and solving your problem. People that steal loot will continue stealing your loot regardless of slot count.

That attempt at logic is trash. Inventory size has no bearing on the quality of people you choose to play with. That (quality of people) is your problem, not inventory size.

The point is that I have no control over the quality of people I play with. As such, I support a strict control over inventory size, which puts me on a level playing field with everyone else.

An inventory size of 27 itself changes absolutely nothing about the actual mechanic that bothers you

Yes it does. Someone with an inventory size of 199 is much, much more likely to have empty slots in their inventory, which means they are more likely to be able to pick up anything that drops right away while those of us who play the game legitimately are busy clearing inventory space.

Ok, you go right on ignoring the human factor that comes before the slot size is ever relevant. When you have to cut off the rest of the quote in order to avoid acknowledging the real problem, it's clear you're not interested in identifying the root cause and solving your problem. People that steal loot will continue stealing your loot regardless of slot count.

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For the record, I don't find the inventory size limiting at all

A shocking and unexpected revelation, that.

............................

Thanks Entegy!

Okay, I've decided that you have some sort of brain disorder that prevents you from comprehending what you read. Here, one last time:

People stealing root is of course the root issue, but it cannot be helped. Mathematically speaking, given that "people steal" is a constant, the only thing that makes sense is to equalize the variables (i.e. inventory size) to level the playing field. Whether you think a 27 slot inventory is sufficient is quite irrelevant, and I don't care about your shitty opinions on the subject.

Dammit! Missed it (that's what I get for wanting to finish up BSG today). Oh well, it's not like I don't have 30 or so sitting unused.

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I also just discovered I can copy/paste the PC version key into the Shift entry screen.

After Alt-tabbing for the first half dozen or so I decided on a whim to see if that worked. Initially it didn't seem like it did, but after a couple more attempts with ctrl+v it did! So, uh, probably should have mentioned it a few weeks ago. Sorry.

People stealing root is of course the root issue, but it cannot be helped. Mathematically speaking, given that "people steal" is a constant,

What? No. If you're going to bring sociology and math into this, you have to do a lot better than these assertions.

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the only thing that makes sense is to equalize the variables (i.e. inventory size) to level the playing field.

OR they could create a loot distribution system. I'm guessing you've never played World of Warcraft? If Gearbox is going to make their multiplayer feel like an MMO with groups and bosses and rare loot, then they need a goddamn workable system. This is a problem that has been "solved" (endlessly argued over, anyway) before even Borderlands 1, yet our intrepid devs here are apparently either too stupid or too stubborn to implement anything.

The D3 model doesn't distinguish anything based on killing blows etc. If something dies and you're in the game, it drops loot for you. And Alice, and Bob. Regardless of who did what damage or who made the killing blow.

Honestly I can't say if the D3 model is better than a WoW-style need/greed model or any other kind of model. Almost anything would be preferable to the current free-for-all. People were complaining about this back in the original Borderlands, which was widely promoted as Diablo-like re: loot. If you're doing co-op in a loot-based game, you need a loot distribution plan. Borderlands has none.

The D3 model doesn't distinguish anything based on killing blows etc. If something dies and you're in the game, it drops loot for you. And Alice, and Bob. Regardless of who did what damage or who made the killing blow.

Honestly I can't say if the D3 model is better than a WoW-style need/greed model or any other kind of model. Almost anything would be preferable to the current free-for-all. People were complaining about this back in the original Borderlands, which was widely promoted as Diablo-like re: loot. If you're doing co-op in a loot-based game, you need a loot distribution plan. Borderlands has none.

MMO-style of loot system makes sense for an MMO. Games like Borderlands are not MMO's, and using a need/greed system would just be exceptionally cumbersome.

MMO-style of loot system makes sense for an MMO. Games like Borderlands are not MMO's, and using a need/greed system would just be exceptionally cumbersome.

Maybe. I'm not convinced. Right now you have up to four people who have to crowd around a chest/drop, line up the crosshairs to see the stats, and ask each other over voice comms who wants/needs it. And especially among PuGs, anyone with poor manners is free to just grab it and split.

A pop-up with a couple buttons for "I really want this" vs "It'd be nice" vs "Nah, not interested" doesn't seem so bad in comparison, and that's not even the only option. D3 style individual loot could also work, or something else entirely. I'm just incredibly sick of awkward FFA loot-conversations and PuGs who grab the first orange they see & log. THAT's what feels exceptionally cumbersome for me. It's even worse for my friend who can't cue up a mic without being barraged with unwelcome comments/friend requests because she's female.

Played Hyperion Slaugher Dome. Last round, last wave. One badass constructor left with a bit of health. Killed everything else. I have infinite ammo pistol, full health, full shields. All I have to do is finish him off. Then I step off the ramp and fall to my death.

Played Hyperion Slaugher Dome. Last round, last wave. One badass constructor left with a bit of health. Killed everything else. I have infinite ammo pistol, full health, full shields. All I have to do is finish him off. Then I step off the ramp and fall to my death.

Just had to vent.

Ah, if I had a dime for every time I walked up to my turret and hit 'x' to reclaim it only to be off by a few pixels and ended up reloading my Tediore gun instead - throwing my gun-grenade into my turret where it instantly explodes FFYL'ing me in the process with no one around.

Or I throw a grenade - forgetting I've got the one that flies off, splits into seven mini-grenades, and then flies back to where I was standing.

D3-style loot drops would be very nice indeed. That's one thing D3 got right and nobody complains about. When I play with friends, I show off items that are good and they could perhaps use in chat, and they can see full stats and a comparison to their current gear. When I play with pubs, things are quieter and everyone just collects their stuff and moves on.

D3-style loot drops would be very nice indeed. That's one thing D3 got right and nobody complains about.

Not sure if that's true. It was always frustrating when a group member got a legendary drop and you didn't... I mean, you could be that lucky guy, or you could be completely fucked by the RNG and not get anything even with a ton of magic find.

The D3 model doesn't distinguish anything based on killing blows etc. If something dies and you're in the game, it drops loot for you. And Alice, and Bob. Regardless of who did what damage or who made the killing blow.

Thanks to everyone who answered that. Sounds good to me. If BL2 had that system, and did a better job with loot scaling (I'm currently doing PT2 story missions only until level 50), I'd be much more interested in co-op. As it stands, I can't trust pubs not to gank loot or start sidequests.

Monsieur Canard wrote:

Ah, if I had a dime for every time I walked up to my turret and hit 'x' to reclaim it only to be off by a few pixels and ended up reloading my Tediore gun instead - throwing my gun-grenade into my turret where it instantly explodes FFYL'ing me in the process with no one around.

lol, I don't suppose you can map the "use" and "reload" keys separately? That's a particularly nice (but subtle) feature on the PC version.

Not sure if that's true. It was always frustrating when a group member got a legendary drop and you didn't... I mean, you could be that lucky guy, or you could be completely fucked by the RNG and not get anything even with a ton of magic find.

In none of the public or with-friends games I've played has that come up. The RNG is what it is and you're no worse off than when you play alone.

The D3 model doesn't distinguish anything based on killing blows etc. If something dies and you're in the game, it drops loot for you. And Alice, and Bob. Regardless of who did what damage or who made the killing blow.

Honestly I can't say if the D3 model is better than a WoW-style need/greed model or any other kind of model. Almost anything would be preferable to the current free-for-all. People were complaining about this back in the original Borderlands, which was widely promoted as Diablo-like re: loot. If you're doing co-op in a loot-based game, you need a loot distribution plan. Borderlands has none.

I know at one point D3 only dropped items for players in the local area, and not anywhere in the game.

As it is, 99% of what I find is generally only sale-worthy, and I've yet to find a single orange item. I seem to be doing ok.

Manual reload causes you to lose all Anarchy or turns on Discord, which also drains Anarchy.

Yeah, it's annoying during the first few low levels, but once you get Discord, you only lose a few stacks at worst, and if you're doing the Discord based Plasma Anarchist build that got passed around the official forums once you get Rational Anarchist it's not bad at all.

Not sure if that's true. It was always frustrating when a group member got a legendary drop and you didn't... I mean, you could be that lucky guy, or you could be completely fucked by the RNG and not get anything even with a ton of magic find.

In none of the public or with-friends games I've played has that come up. The RNG is what it is and you're no worse off than when you play alone.

Oh no, I didn't mean it that way. I meant in terms of envy. I was playing with a friend one time and he got two legendaries in one run, and I remember it made me feel pretty bitter because I had gotten absolutely none since I had started playing.

I actually liked WoW's need/greed rolls the most, because everyone could easily see what dropped, check out its stats, etc. and then make a decision based on need/greed. Yeah, some people rolled need on everything, but then if they started doing that, so could you.

Not sure if that's true. It was always frustrating when a group member got a legendary drop and you didn't... I mean, you could be that lucky guy, or you could be completely fucked by the RNG and not get anything even with a ton of magic find.

In none of the public or with-friends games I've played has that come up. The RNG is what it is and you're no worse off than when you play alone.

Oh no, I didn't mean it that way. I meant in terms of envy. I was playing with a friend one time and he got two legendaries in one run, and I remember it made me feel pretty bitter because I had gotten absolutely none since I had started playing.

I actually liked WoW's need/greed rolls the most, because everyone could easily see what dropped, check out its stats, etc. and then make a decision based on need/greed. Yeah, some people rolled need on everything, but then if they started doing that, so could you.

This was an option in LOTRO as well. I'm pretty sure the game kept track of your rolls, so rolling "greed" or "pass" for most things you didn't really want would actually increase the values of your "need" rolls. I mostly rolled "greed" for stuff unless it was just other-class-crafting-materials, and I almost always got the stuff I rolled "need" on. Seemed to reward players who weren't particularly greedy.

Not sure if that's true. It was always frustrating when a group member got a legendary drop and you didn't... I mean, you could be that lucky guy, or you could be completely fucked by the RNG and not get anything even with a ton of magic find.

In none of the public or with-friends games I've played has that come up. The RNG is what it is and you're no worse off than when you play alone.

Oh no, I didn't mean it that way. I meant in terms of envy. I was playing with a friend one time and he got two legendaries in one run, and I remember it made me feel pretty bitter because I had gotten absolutely none since I had started playing.

I actually liked WoW's need/greed rolls the most, because everyone could easily see what dropped, check out its stats, etc. and then make a decision based on need/greed. Yeah, some people rolled need on everything, but then if they started doing that, so could you.

This was an option in LOTRO as well. I'm pretty sure the game kept track of your rolls, so rolling "greed" or "pass" for most things you didn't really want would actually increase the values of your "need" rolls. I mostly rolled "greed" for stuff unless it was just other-class-crafting-materials, and I almost always got the stuff I rolled "need" on. Seemed to reward players who weren't particularly greedy.

My memory may be fuzzy, but that might actually go back as far as Goldeneye on N64. I recall blood streaming down the screen a lot near doorways, because if the Bond wasn't close enough, he'd reload instead of opening the door. Obviously it has even greater combat implications as devs tack more and more features onto the same button.