Cooper calls on four to be leaders

SWINDON Town manager Mark Cooper has urged four of his “senior” players to become leaders on the pitch in 2014/15.

Cooper wants Yaser Kasim, Wes Foderingham, Massimo Luongo and Nathan Thompson - all of whom are aged 23 or younger - to take on the responsibilities usually reserved for seasoned pros, as Town look to hold their own in League One.

One noticeable characteristic of Swindon’s pre-season performances has been the lack of a vocal leader on the pitch, with Cooper’s youthful crew not inclined to bark orders, while the member of the squad to whom such actions come most naturally - veteran defender Darren Ward - has been told to find a new club.

When questioned by the Advertiser about the issue and whether it is something that needs addressing, Cooper said: “I think leaders are very short in supply in the modern game and invariably you have to pay a lot of money to get them. They’re usually 28 or 29 and you have to pay a lot of money to get them - so they might be a little too far out of our reach.

“Yes, we could probably do with a leader on the pitch but the boys that we’ve got have got to step up to the mark now.

“I would class Yaser as experienced, I’d class Mass as experienced, I’d class Wes as experienced and Nathan, so we’re looking for them to push on to become more vocal.

“Looking back on when I played, I didn’t get it until I was 28 or 29. I think you feel as though, when you get to that age, you’re entitled to say things to other people.”

Town will boast one of the youngest squads in the division when the new season gets under way with the visit of Scunthorpe to the County Ground on August 9 and Cooper has highlighted one of the reasons his squad don’t tend to shout at each other.

He said: “Academy systems don’t breed that kind of player because it’s not cool to shout at your teammates. You have to say ‘no, you made a mistake, do it again properly next time’.

“I don’t think that lends itself to breeding good leaders, so there are not that many about. I think the best way to do it is to lead by example, I think that’s the best thing to do.”

When asked whether the absence of a vocal leader was a concern, the Swindon boss said: “Of course there’s a concern but whether we get one, I don’t know.”

The Jockster wrote:
What a total load of garbage of an article - if that's the best you can do Sam in terms of pre-season happenings at the CG then don't bother!

Jesus, don't read the adver sport pages then miserable git

[quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote:
What a total load of garbage of an article - if that's the best you can do Sam in terms of pre-season happenings at the CG then don't bother![/p][/quote]Jesus, don't read the adver sport pages then miserable gitTownend80

So we cannot get type of players needed because money wise there out of our reach???what a remark.
So here we are one of the best supported clubs in Division 1(other clubs are no where near our gates) yet we have a manager who cannot attract players why???
I guess because MC does not have the experience simple as that.OK LP said he needs help Fans have bought season tickets,however many have not.
I do hope the young players can cope with the tough playing in this division and as many have said we are short 2/3 players.
Just cannot figure out with the support STFC have and what with the budget been cut again MC cannot find suitable players(even on loan) just think STFC may have been a soft touch in the past for journymen etc.
This is not doom and gloom is FACT something needs to be rectfied and quick

So we cannot get type of players needed because money wise there out of our reach???what a remark.
So here we are one of the best supported clubs in Division 1(other clubs are no where near our gates) yet we have a manager who cannot attract players why???
I guess because MC does not have the experience simple as that.OK LP said he needs help Fans have bought season tickets,however many have not.
I do hope the young players can cope with the tough playing in this division and as many have said we are short 2/3 players.
Just cannot figure out with the support STFC have and what with the budget been cut again MC cannot find suitable players(even on loan) just think STFC may have been a soft touch in the past for journymen etc.
This is not doom and gloom is FACT something needs to be rectfied and quickport de soller

Quote MC I think leaders are very short in supply in the modern game and invariably you have to pay a lot of money to get them.

We had one in Gordon Greer and Fitton sold him for peanuts, Wilson didn't argue his case and the rest is history as the dressing room was lost and a good bunch of players turned into a shambles

Brighton must have laughed out loud when they got Gordon on the cheap and 4 years later he's still playing at Championship level and we are where we are and haven't had a captain of the same ilk since.

Quote MC I think leaders are very short in supply in the modern game and invariably you have to pay a lot of money to get them.
We had one in Gordon Greer and Fitton sold him for peanuts, Wilson didn't argue his case and the rest is history as the dressing room was lost and a good bunch of players turned into a shambles
Brighton must have laughed out loud when they got Gordon on the cheap and 4 years later he's still playing at Championship level and we are where we are and haven't had a captain of the same ilk since.old town robin

Hey Jock, thats a bit harsh, its not Sam's fault that the club still have a semi blackout against the adver, Flic with ASD are getting all the exlusives probably because its written how they want it with no fan comments to criticise the article, I think the fact that the adver keep these comments sections is a good thing.

Hey Jock, thats a bit harsh, its not Sam's fault that the club still have a semi blackout against the adver, Flic with ASD are getting all the exlusives probably because its written how they want it with no fan comments to criticise the article, I think the fact that the adver keep these comments sections is a good thing.you gots ta be kidding me

old town robin wrote:
Quote MC I think leaders are very short in supply in the modern game and invariably you have to pay a lot of money to get them.

We had one in Gordon Greer and Fitton sold him for peanuts, Wilson didn't argue his case and the rest is history as the dressing room was lost and a good bunch of players turned into a shambles

Brighton must have laughed out loud when they got Gordon on the cheap and 4 years later he's still playing at Championship level and we are where we are and haven't had a captain of the same ilk since.

To be honest OTR, I think it would have been very difficult to keep Greer, although you may very well have a point about the fee. His senseless red card at Charlton seemed to be the act of a man who was past caring about the club. The dressing room had been lost several weeks before the end of that season. It was evident in squabbles on the pitch at Colchester, when we got hammered after playing them off the pitch in the first half. My guess is that a combination of Paynter's dirty deal and Wilson's non-management was the cause of the problem and also the indirect cause of our abysmal 2010/11.

[quote][p][bold]old town robin[/bold] wrote:
Quote MC I think leaders are very short in supply in the modern game and invariably you have to pay a lot of money to get them.
We had one in Gordon Greer and Fitton sold him for peanuts, Wilson didn't argue his case and the rest is history as the dressing room was lost and a good bunch of players turned into a shambles
Brighton must have laughed out loud when they got Gordon on the cheap and 4 years later he's still playing at Championship level and we are where we are and haven't had a captain of the same ilk since.[/p][/quote]To be honest OTR, I think it would have been very difficult to keep Greer, although you may very well have a point about the fee. His senseless red card at Charlton seemed to be the act of a man who was past caring about the club. The dressing room had been lost several weeks before the end of that season. It was evident in squabbles on the pitch at Colchester, when we got hammered after playing them off the pitch in the first half. My guess is that a combination of Paynter's dirty deal and Wilson's non-management was the cause of the problem and also the indirect cause of our abysmal 2010/11.Oi Den!

I don't why we can't develop leaders from within the squad. There is also Andy Williams up front who is probably our oldest player? Nathan has played the role of captain, Yasser clearly has got ideas and opinions and Wes needs to be more commanding in the box if he is going to develop. Mass can now boast World Cup experience.

Quite a few candidates there I'd have thought. An experienced 27/28 year old can be very good but they can also lead younger players in the wrong direction and we have a history of that type of player falling out with the club (not always their fault I'll hasten to add) - Greer, Douglas, Caddis. Ward. Unfortunately, those who haven't fallen out McEverley, McCormack, have been sold on to Clubs who can offer more. Can't see that changing.

We have to accept where we are and get on with it.

I don't why we can't develop leaders from within the squad. There is also Andy Williams up front who is probably our oldest player? Nathan has played the role of captain, Yasser clearly has got ideas and opinions and Wes needs to be more commanding in the box if he is going to develop. Mass can now boast World Cup experience.
Quite a few candidates there I'd have thought. An experienced 27/28 year old can be very good but they can also lead younger players in the wrong direction and we have a history of that type of player falling out with the club (not always their fault I'll hasten to add) - Greer, Douglas, Caddis. Ward. Unfortunately, those who haven't fallen out McEverley, McCormack, have been sold on to Clubs who can offer more. Can't see that changing.
We have to accept where we are and get on with it.mancrobin

old town robin wrote:
Quote MC I think leaders are very short in supply in the modern game and invariably you have to pay a lot of money to get them.

We had one in Gordon Greer and Fitton sold him for peanuts, Wilson didn't argue his case and the rest is history as the dressing room was lost and a good bunch of players turned into a shambles

Brighton must have laughed out loud when they got Gordon on the cheap and 4 years later he's still playing at Championship level and we are where we are and haven't had a captain of the same ilk since.

To be honest OTR, I think it would have been very difficult to keep Greer, although you may very well have a point about the fee. His senseless red card at Charlton seemed to be the act of a man who was past caring about the club. The dressing room had been lost several weeks before the end of that season. It was evident in squabbles on the pitch at Colchester, when we got hammered after playing them off the pitch in the first half. My guess is that a combination of Paynter's dirty deal and Wilson's non-management was the cause of the problem and also the indirect cause of our abysmal 2010/11.

Some good points of view den, but I think he would have stayed if Fitton had given him the 2 or 3 year contract that Brighton offered him and Wilson had shown some balls that he wanted to keep him. After all until Poyet's arrival they were struggling with relegation and certainly not as good as we were until they bought Gordon and one or two others and they went up whilst we went down.

[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]old town robin[/bold] wrote:
Quote MC I think leaders are very short in supply in the modern game and invariably you have to pay a lot of money to get them.
We had one in Gordon Greer and Fitton sold him for peanuts, Wilson didn't argue his case and the rest is history as the dressing room was lost and a good bunch of players turned into a shambles
Brighton must have laughed out loud when they got Gordon on the cheap and 4 years later he's still playing at Championship level and we are where we are and haven't had a captain of the same ilk since.[/p][/quote]To be honest OTR, I think it would have been very difficult to keep Greer, although you may very well have a point about the fee. His senseless red card at Charlton seemed to be the act of a man who was past caring about the club. The dressing room had been lost several weeks before the end of that season. It was evident in squabbles on the pitch at Colchester, when we got hammered after playing them off the pitch in the first half. My guess is that a combination of Paynter's dirty deal and Wilson's non-management was the cause of the problem and also the indirect cause of our abysmal 2010/11.[/p][/quote]Some good points of view den, but I think he would have stayed if Fitton had given him the 2 or 3 year contract that Brighton offered him and Wilson had shown some balls that he wanted to keep him. After all until Poyet's arrival they were struggling with relegation and certainly not as good as we were until they bought Gordon and one or two others and they went up whilst we went down.old town robin

Would like to see Wez to step up to the plate as GK always see more of the game and think as a very talented keeper it would support his development as a player. Understand it is difficult if you dont that in your character to put yourself out there but i`m sure the players would listen to possibly the best talent we with have in the squad, perhaps with the support of the management /backroom staff he could be the voice and captain.

Would like to see Wez to step up to the plate as GK always see more of the game and think as a very talented keeper it would support his development as a player. Understand it is difficult if you dont that in your character to put yourself out there but i`m sure the players would listen to possibly the best talent we with have in the squad, perhaps with the support of the management /backroom staff he could be the voice and captain.meadowred

port de soller wrote:
So we cannot get type of players needed because money wise there out of our reach???what a remark. So here we are one of the best supported clubs in Division 1(other clubs are no where near our gates) yet we have a manager who cannot attract players why??? I guess because MC does not have the experience simple as that.OK LP said he needs help Fans have bought season tickets,however many have not. I do hope the young players can cope with the tough playing in this division and as many have said we are short 2/3 players. Just cannot figure out with the support STFC have and what with the budget been cut again MC cannot find suitable players(even on loan) just think STFC may have been a soft touch in the past for journymen etc. This is not doom and gloom is FACT something needs to be rectfied and quick

To be fair our gates aren't bad - eighth highest average in the division - but they're not overwhelming either given the size of the town and surrounding areas. Milton Keynes, Rotherham and Wolverhampton all draw bigger crowds, and have slightly bigger populations. Peterborough, Crawley etc bring in less than us but have smaller populations so I'd say for the size of the town we're no better than average.

I think it's very simple why we can't attract the players, and with respect, it was answered in the article - because we don't have the funds. Even if we're talking about a free agent there'll be signing on fees and wages so it all has to be taken into account. The owner's been quite upfront in saying we have limited funds and it's not a reflection of the manager's ability.

"Just cannot figure out with the support STFC have and what with the budget been cut again MC cannot find suitable players" - you've really answered your own question there - if the budget keeps getting cut, it will get harder and harder to bring players in. Finding suitable players is one thing, finding suitable players we can afford is another.

If the support STFC have, such as it is, was really a draw for players then Douglas and McCormack wouldn't have gone to Brentford, Troy to Carlisle etc. It's an economic decision largely, but also you can't blame a player for moving on if they feel they have a better chance of promotion with another team - in the case of the Brentford two, they were dead right. I can't imagine any potential signing looking at Swindon right now and thinking of us as a sleeping giant on the cusp of greatness, and willing to play for less on the chance we might be in the championship next season. Not being a realistic candidate for promotion we'll therefore be expected to pay big to bring in seasoned pros, money we can ill afford. For any permanent signings we'll either be looking down the divisions rather than upwards or even sideways, or at younger players without experience. As the money's not there, this is our lot for the foreseeable future.

As fans I fear some will turn into the whiney teenager, complaining cause mummy and daddy can't afford to send them on a school trip :-)

[quote][p][bold]port de soller[/bold] wrote:
So we cannot get type of players needed because money wise there out of our reach???what a remark. So here we are one of the best supported clubs in Division 1(other clubs are no where near our gates) yet we have a manager who cannot attract players why??? I guess because MC does not have the experience simple as that.OK LP said he needs help Fans have bought season tickets,however many have not. I do hope the young players can cope with the tough playing in this division and as many have said we are short 2/3 players. Just cannot figure out with the support STFC have and what with the budget been cut again MC cannot find suitable players(even on loan) just think STFC may have been a soft touch in the past for journymen etc. This is not doom and gloom is FACT something needs to be rectfied and quick[/p][/quote]To be fair our gates aren't bad - eighth highest average in the division - but they're not overwhelming either given the size of the town and surrounding areas. Milton Keynes, Rotherham and Wolverhampton all draw bigger crowds, and have slightly bigger populations. Peterborough, Crawley etc bring in less than us but have smaller populations so I'd say for the size of the town we're no better than average.
I think it's very simple why we can't attract the players, and with respect, it was answered in the article - because we don't have the funds. Even if we're talking about a free agent there'll be signing on fees and wages so it all has to be taken into account. The owner's been quite upfront in saying we have limited funds and it's not a reflection of the manager's ability.
"Just cannot figure out with the support STFC have and what with the budget been cut again MC cannot find suitable players" - you've really answered your own question there - if the budget keeps getting cut, it will get harder and harder to bring players in. Finding suitable players is one thing, finding suitable players we can afford is another.
If the support STFC have, such as it is, was really a draw for players then Douglas and McCormack wouldn't have gone to Brentford, Troy to Carlisle etc. It's an economic decision largely, but also you can't blame a player for moving on if they feel they have a better chance of promotion with another team - in the case of the Brentford two, they were dead right. I can't imagine any potential signing looking at Swindon right now and thinking of us as a sleeping giant on the cusp of greatness, and willing to play for less on the chance we might be in the championship next season. Not being a realistic candidate for promotion we'll therefore be expected to pay big to bring in seasoned pros, money we can ill afford. For any permanent signings we'll either be looking down the divisions rather than upwards or even sideways, or at younger players without experience. As the money's not there, this is our lot for the foreseeable future.
As fans I fear some will turn into the whiney teenager, complaining cause mummy and daddy can't afford to send them on a school trip :-)Swindon1984

Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media.

I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc

Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch!

The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted?

Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.

Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media.
I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc
Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch!
The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted?
Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.Wilesy

I daresay things are happening which we don't yet know about. I believe that many second string players know of direct interest from other clubs but " hesitate " in the hope that better opportunities will present themselves before 9th August. I expect a whirlwind of tos and fros next week throughout all the lower leagues at least.

I daresay things are happening which we don't yet know about. I believe that many second string players know of direct interest from other clubs but " hesitate " in the hope that better opportunities will present themselves before 9th August. I expect a whirlwind of tos and fros next week throughout all the lower leagues at least.umpcah

Wilesy wrote:
Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media. I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch! The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted? Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.

Did you not see, listen, rwad about any games last season?
.
The reason why Ward was "binned off" should be pretty clear from any of them!
.
Great person and good leader - but he is clearly no longer a L1 defender and it was costing us more to have him in the team than out of it
.
As I pointed out many times - after Hall went out injured our defence got WORSE until Ward was dropped after the Wolves game!
.
A Year later and it is only going to get worse!

[quote][p][bold]Wilesy[/bold] wrote:
Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media. I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch! The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted? Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.[/p][/quote]Did you not see, listen, rwad about any games last season?
.
The reason why Ward was "binned off" should be pretty clear from any of them!
.
Great person and good leader - but he is clearly no longer a L1 defender and it was costing us more to have him in the team than out of it
.
As I pointed out many times - after Hall went out injured our defence got WORSE until Ward was dropped after the Wolves game!
.
A Year later and it is only going to get worse!London Red

Wilesy wrote:
Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media.

I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc

Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch!

The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted?

Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.

I'm beginning to think the Jack Stephens loan is getting more remote by the day because of the exodus from St Mary's. it was bad enough them losing a decent coach and hiring Koeman who knows little about the premier. I was hoping they would have given the job to Tim Sherwood who IMO proved himself at Spurs.

As much as we would all like to see the arrival of Jack, it might be time to look elsewhere, Saints are dithering about who they want to keep and it's effecting our planning. Heard Les Reed on Sky last night saying they will be bringing players in, but who they likely to get has to be a big question, because they will most likely be struggling around the relegation zone this season, in fact they may well decide to bring on their academy players and take their chances to blood the youngsters.

[quote][p][bold]Wilesy[/bold] wrote:
Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media.
I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc
Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch!
The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted?
Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.[/p][/quote]I'm beginning to think the Jack Stephens loan is getting more remote by the day because of the exodus from St Mary's. it was bad enough them losing a decent coach and hiring Koeman who knows little about the premier. I was hoping they would have given the job to Tim Sherwood who IMO proved himself at Spurs.
As much as we would all like to see the arrival of Jack, it might be time to look elsewhere, Saints are dithering about who they want to keep and it's effecting our planning. Heard Les Reed on Sky last night saying they will be bringing players in, but who they likely to get has to be a big question, because they will most likely be struggling around the relegation zone this season, in fact they may well decide to bring on their academy players and take their chances to blood the youngsters.old town robin

Wilesy wrote:
Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media.

I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc

Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch!

The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted?

Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.

I'm beginning to think the Jack Stephens loan is getting more remote by the day because of the exodus from St Mary's. it was bad enough them losing a decent coach and hiring Koeman who knows little about the premier. I was hoping they would have given the job to Tim Sherwood who IMO proved himself at Spurs.

As much as we would all like to see the arrival of Jack, it might be time to look elsewhere, Saints are dithering about who they want to keep and it's effecting our planning. Heard Les Reed on Sky last night saying they will be bringing players in, but who they likely to get has to be a big question, because they will most likely be struggling around the relegation zone this season, in fact they may well decide to bring on their academy players and take their chances to blood the youngsters.

[quote][p][bold]Wilesy[/bold] wrote:
Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media.
I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc
Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch!
The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted?
Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.[/p][/quote]I'm beginning to think the Jack Stephens loan is getting more remote by the day because of the exodus from St Mary's. it was bad enough them losing a decent coach and hiring Koeman who knows little about the premier. I was hoping they would have given the job to Tim Sherwood who IMO proved himself at Spurs.
As much as we would all like to see the arrival of Jack, it might be time to look elsewhere, Saints are dithering about who they want to keep and it's effecting our planning. Heard Les Reed on Sky last night saying they will be bringing players in, but who they likely to get has to be a big question, because they will most likely be struggling around the relegation zone this season, in fact they may well decide to bring on their academy players and take their chances to blood the youngsters.old town robin

Wilesy wrote:
Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media.

I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc

Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch!

The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted?

Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.

Darren Ward was bombed out "so soon" like the rest of high wage earners , surprised Williams is still here ?

[quote][p][bold]Wilesy[/bold] wrote:
Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media.
I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc
Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch!
The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted?
Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.[/p][/quote]Darren Ward was bombed out "so soon" like the rest of high wage earners , surprised Williams is still here ?EastleazeRed

Wilesy wrote:
Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media. I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch! The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted? Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.

Did you not see, listen, rwad about any games last season?
.
The reason why Ward was &quot;binned off" should be pretty clear from any of them!
.
Great person and good leader - but he is clearly no longer a L1 defender and it was costing us more to have him in the team than out of it
.
As I pointed out many times - after Hall went out injured our defence got WORSE until Ward was dropped after the Wolves game!
.
A Year later and it is only going to get worse!

Re-read what I've said I'm not advocating building a side around Ward! Just until we get recruits in he could do a job short term even as back up.

I don't recall anyone playing well against Wolves we were battered as a team by a far superior side. Not just Wards fault.

If I decided to move house because I felt I could get a better one I wouldn't move out but keep paying the mortgage and live on the street until I found the new house then complain I haven't got a house!

[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Wilesy[/bold] wrote:
Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media. I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch! The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted? Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.[/p][/quote]Did you not see, listen, rwad about any games last season?
.
The reason why Ward was "binned off" should be pretty clear from any of them!
.
Great person and good leader - but he is clearly no longer a L1 defender and it was costing us more to have him in the team than out of it
.
As I pointed out many times - after Hall went out injured our defence got WORSE until Ward was dropped after the Wolves game!
.
A Year later and it is only going to get worse![/p][/quote]Re-read what I've said I'm not advocating building a side around Ward! Just until we get recruits in he could do a job short term even as back up.
I don't recall anyone playing well against Wolves we were battered as a team by a far superior side. Not just Wards fault.
If I decided to move house because I felt I could get a better one I wouldn't move out but keep paying the mortgage and live on the street until I found the new house then complain I haven't got a house!Wilesy

Wilesy wrote: Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media. I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch! The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted? Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.

Did you not see, listen, rwad about any games last season? . The reason why Ward was &quot;binned off" should be pretty clear from any of them! . Great person and good leader - but he is clearly no longer a L1 defender and it was costing us more to have him in the team than out of it . As I pointed out many times - after Hall went out injured our defence got WORSE until Ward was dropped after the Wolves game! . A Year later and it is only going to get worse!

Re-read what I've said I'm not advocating building a side around Ward! Just until we get recruits in he could do a job short term even as back up. I don't recall anyone playing well against Wolves we were battered as a team by a far superior side. Not just Wards fault. If I decided to move house because I felt I could get a better one I wouldn't move out but keep paying the mortgage and live on the street until I found the new house then complain I haven't got a house!

Wolves was just the final straw and Ward had been poor for a long run before that!
.
I highlighted that as it was his last game - it also happened to be the end of our 6 game run without a win - which was followed up by our best run in 25 years - that run saw us play Brentford, Preston and revitalised Sheff U and Bristol - so wasn't an easy run of games by any stretch!
.
Also wages of players is far more complex than just a basic wage - so by playing him the club could have to pay out a shed load more in appearance fees and other bonuses - plus in some cases could trigger contract extentions etc
.
The thing is Power and Cooper have obviously decided that the club would be better playing 3 from Thompson, Lelan, Branco and Kasim than they would be playing Ward back there until we can land the targets they are looking at
.
That's there call and to be honest based on Ward's demise last year I think it is a pretty good one
.
The season is 46 games long and we should judge them in May not 9 Aug - so if it takes a few weeks to get the right players in so be it!
.
We are not alone in this situation - and we are better place dthan lots - imagine being a Blackpool fan at present!
.
Ranger, Ajose, N'Guessan etc all didn't arrive until end of Aug last year and Stephens and Troy weren't around until Jan - yet we still finished 8th
.
Have a little faith in Wes, Thompson x2, Luongo, Kasim and Byrne - who are the core of the team and am certain all will be better this year than last
.
We just need 1 CB and potentially 1 CF to have our starting XI in place - thats not too bad really with over a week to go and 5 weeks of the transfer window left
.
Wes
Thompson New CB Lelan Branco Byrne
Kasim Luongo Thompson
Smith Williams
.
That is not a poor L1 side - plus 8 played in it last year - so know the league and each others games etc now
.
Even with Nathan at CB and Bathram at RB its still not poor - and certainly nowhere near relegation fodder

[quote][p][bold]Wilesy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Wilesy[/bold] wrote: Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media. I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch! The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted? Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.[/p][/quote]Did you not see, listen, rwad about any games last season? . The reason why Ward was "binned off" should be pretty clear from any of them! . Great person and good leader - but he is clearly no longer a L1 defender and it was costing us more to have him in the team than out of it . As I pointed out many times - after Hall went out injured our defence got WORSE until Ward was dropped after the Wolves game! . A Year later and it is only going to get worse![/p][/quote]Re-read what I've said I'm not advocating building a side around Ward! Just until we get recruits in he could do a job short term even as back up. I don't recall anyone playing well against Wolves we were battered as a team by a far superior side. Not just Wards fault. If I decided to move house because I felt I could get a better one I wouldn't move out but keep paying the mortgage and live on the street until I found the new house then complain I haven't got a house![/p][/quote]Wolves was just the final straw and Ward had been poor for a long run before that!
.
I highlighted that as it was his last game - it also happened to be the end of our 6 game run without a win - which was followed up by our best run in 25 years - that run saw us play Brentford, Preston and revitalised Sheff U and Bristol - so wasn't an easy run of games by any stretch!
.
Also wages of players is far more complex than just a basic wage - so by playing him the club could have to pay out a shed load more in appearance fees and other bonuses - plus in some cases could trigger contract extentions etc
.
The thing is Power and Cooper have obviously decided that the club would be better playing 3 from Thompson, Lelan, Branco and Kasim than they would be playing Ward back there until we can land the targets they are looking at
.
That's there call and to be honest based on Ward's demise last year I think it is a pretty good one
.
The season is 46 games long and we should judge them in May not 9 Aug - so if it takes a few weeks to get the right players in so be it!
.
We are not alone in this situation - and we are better place dthan lots - imagine being a Blackpool fan at present!
.
Ranger, Ajose, N'Guessan etc all didn't arrive until end of Aug last year and Stephens and Troy weren't around until Jan - yet we still finished 8th
.
Have a little faith in Wes, Thompson x2, Luongo, Kasim and Byrne - who are the core of the team and am certain all will be better this year than last
.
We just need 1 CB and potentially 1 CF to have our starting XI in place - thats not too bad really with over a week to go and 5 weeks of the transfer window left
.
Wes
Thompson New CB Lelan Branco Byrne
Kasim Luongo Thompson
Smith Williams
.
That is not a poor L1 side - plus 8 played in it last year - so know the league and each others games etc now
.
Even with Nathan at CB and Bathram at RB its still not poor - and certainly nowhere near relegation fodderLondon Red

The Jockster wrote:
What a total load of garbage of an article - if that's the best you can do Sam in terms of pre-season happenings at the CG then don't bother!

41 fish on the hook so far- and don't even need bait. Basically I'm with Wilesy - fed up of Coopernan using every excuse under the sun to justify one deficiency or another! Maybe he should start looking over his shoulder - or in the mirror for answers.

[quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote:
What a total load of garbage of an article - if that's the best you can do Sam in terms of pre-season happenings at the CG then don't bother![/p][/quote]41 fish on the hook so far- and don't even need bait. Basically I'm with Wilesy - fed up of Coopernan using every excuse under the sun to justify one deficiency or another! Maybe he should start looking over his shoulder - or in the mirror for answers.The Jockster

you gots ta be kidding me wrote:
Is anybody going to leeds tonight, I can't as I am up in Brum, but I went to the saints game and was dissapointed by the crowd.....

To be fair for a friendly the turnout for Southampton was pretty good. I know the away team brought a fair few but even so - if you look at teams like Peterborough only averaging around 6000-6500 last season in league games, the Saints turnout could've been a lot worse.

[quote][p][bold]you gots ta be kidding me[/bold] wrote:
Is anybody going to leeds tonight, I can't as I am up in Brum, but I went to the saints game and was dissapointed by the crowd.....[/p][/quote]To be fair for a friendly the turnout for Southampton was pretty good. I know the away team brought a fair few but even so - if you look at teams like Peterborough only averaging around 6000-6500 last season in league games, the Saints turnout could've been a lot worse.Swindon1984

Wilesy wrote: Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media. I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch! The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted? Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.

Did you not see, listen, rwad about any games last season? . The reason why Ward was &quot;binned off" should be pretty clear from any of them! . Great person and good leader - but he is clearly no longer a L1 defender and it was costing us more to have him in the team than out of it . As I pointed out many times - after Hall went out injured our defence got WORSE until Ward was dropped after the Wolves game! . A Year later and it is only going to get worse!

Re-read what I've said I'm not advocating building a side around Ward! Just until we get recruits in he could do a job short term even as back up. I don't recall anyone playing well against Wolves we were battered as a team by a far superior side. Not just Wards fault. If I decided to move house because I felt I could get a better one I wouldn't move out but keep paying the mortgage and live on the street until I found the new house then complain I haven't got a house!

Wolves was just the final straw and Ward had been poor for a long run before that!
.
I highlighted that as it was his last game - it also happened to be the end of our 6 game run without a win - which was followed up by our best run in 25 years - that run saw us play Brentford, Preston and revitalised Sheff U and Bristol - so wasn't an easy run of games by any stretch!
.
Also wages of players is far more complex than just a basic wage - so by playing him the club could have to pay out a shed load more in appearance fees and other bonuses - plus in some cases could trigger contract extentions etc
.
The thing is Power and Cooper have obviously decided that the club would be better playing 3 from Thompson, Lelan, Branco and Kasim than they would be playing Ward back there until we can land the targets they are looking at
.
That's there call and to be honest based on Ward's demise last year I think it is a pretty good one
.
The season is 46 games long and we should judge them in May not 9 Aug - so if it takes a few weeks to get the right players in so be it!
.
We are not alone in this situation - and we are better place dthan lots - imagine being a Blackpool fan at present!
.
Ranger, Ajose, N'Guessan etc all didn't arrive until end of Aug last year and Stephens and Troy weren't around until Jan - yet we still finished 8th
.
Have a little faith in Wes, Thompson x2, Luongo, Kasim and Byrne - who are the core of the team and am certain all will be better this year than last
.
We just need 1 CB and potentially 1 CF to have our starting XI in place - thats not too bad really with over a week to go and 5 weeks of the transfer window left
.
Wes
Thompson New CB Lelan Branco Byrne
Kasim Luongo Thompson
Smith Williams
.
That is not a poor L1 side - plus 8 played in it last year - so know the league and each others games etc now
.
Even with Nathan at CB and Bathram at RB its still not poor - and certainly nowhere near relegation fodder

Yes Ward declined over the season but I still think he could do a job against teams without blistering pace up front. I'm not convinced that our tippy tappy tactics wasn't the problem in any case as that didn't suit his game at all.

It's a bit like the Benson debate last season. Yes Benson's legs had gone but that was slightly different in that we had cover up front. We don't have that at the moment so I would persevere with Ward until we do.

Kasim at centre back is an interesting one, has he ever won a header? I would take Ward over Kasim at CB all day long!

Let's see how he gets on marking Ranger tonight if he plays, my money's on Ranger holding the ball up with ease.

Hope to hear a minute's applause in the 17th minute tonight, just to wind up their chairman!

[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Wilesy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Wilesy[/bold] wrote: Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media. I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch! The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted? Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.[/p][/quote]Did you not see, listen, rwad about any games last season? . The reason why Ward was "binned off" should be pretty clear from any of them! . Great person and good leader - but he is clearly no longer a L1 defender and it was costing us more to have him in the team than out of it . As I pointed out many times - after Hall went out injured our defence got WORSE until Ward was dropped after the Wolves game! . A Year later and it is only going to get worse![/p][/quote]Re-read what I've said I'm not advocating building a side around Ward! Just until we get recruits in he could do a job short term even as back up. I don't recall anyone playing well against Wolves we were battered as a team by a far superior side. Not just Wards fault. If I decided to move house because I felt I could get a better one I wouldn't move out but keep paying the mortgage and live on the street until I found the new house then complain I haven't got a house![/p][/quote]Wolves was just the final straw and Ward had been poor for a long run before that!
.
I highlighted that as it was his last game - it also happened to be the end of our 6 game run without a win - which was followed up by our best run in 25 years - that run saw us play Brentford, Preston and revitalised Sheff U and Bristol - so wasn't an easy run of games by any stretch!
.
Also wages of players is far more complex than just a basic wage - so by playing him the club could have to pay out a shed load more in appearance fees and other bonuses - plus in some cases could trigger contract extentions etc
.
The thing is Power and Cooper have obviously decided that the club would be better playing 3 from Thompson, Lelan, Branco and Kasim than they would be playing Ward back there until we can land the targets they are looking at
.
That's there call and to be honest based on Ward's demise last year I think it is a pretty good one
.
The season is 46 games long and we should judge them in May not 9 Aug - so if it takes a few weeks to get the right players in so be it!
.
We are not alone in this situation - and we are better place dthan lots - imagine being a Blackpool fan at present!
.
Ranger, Ajose, N'Guessan etc all didn't arrive until end of Aug last year and Stephens and Troy weren't around until Jan - yet we still finished 8th
.
Have a little faith in Wes, Thompson x2, Luongo, Kasim and Byrne - who are the core of the team and am certain all will be better this year than last
.
We just need 1 CB and potentially 1 CF to have our starting XI in place - thats not too bad really with over a week to go and 5 weeks of the transfer window left
.
Wes
Thompson New CB Lelan Branco Byrne
Kasim Luongo Thompson
Smith Williams
.
That is not a poor L1 side - plus 8 played in it last year - so know the league and each others games etc now
.
Even with Nathan at CB and Bathram at RB its still not poor - and certainly nowhere near relegation fodder[/p][/quote]Yes Ward declined over the season but I still think he could do a job against teams without blistering pace up front. I'm not convinced that our tippy tappy tactics wasn't the problem in any case as that didn't suit his game at all.
It's a bit like the Benson debate last season. Yes Benson's legs had gone but that was slightly different in that we had cover up front. We don't have that at the moment so I would persevere with Ward until we do.
Kasim at centre back is an interesting one, has he ever won a header? I would take Ward over Kasim at CB all day long!
Let's see how he gets on marking Ranger tonight if he plays, my money's on Ranger holding the ball up with ease.
Hope to hear a minute's applause in the 17th minute tonight, just to wind up their chairman!Wilesy

Wilesy wrote: Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media. I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch! The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted? Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.

Did you not see, listen, rwad about any games last season? . The reason why Ward was &quot;binned off" should be pretty clear from any of them! . Great person and good leader - but he is clearly no longer a L1 defender and it was costing us more to have him in the team than out of it . As I pointed out many times - after Hall went out injured our defence got WORSE until Ward was dropped after the Wolves game! . A Year later and it is only going to get worse!

Re-read what I've said I'm not advocating building a side around Ward! Just until we get recruits in he could do a job short term even as back up. I don't recall anyone playing well against Wolves we were battered as a team by a far superior side. Not just Wards fault. If I decided to move house because I felt I could get a better one I wouldn't move out but keep paying the mortgage and live on the street until I found the new house then complain I haven't got a house!

Wolves was just the final straw and Ward had been poor for a long run before that! . I highlighted that as it was his last game - it also happened to be the end of our 6 game run without a win - which was followed up by our best run in 25 years - that run saw us play Brentford, Preston and revitalised Sheff U and Bristol - so wasn't an easy run of games by any stretch! . Also wages of players is far more complex than just a basic wage - so by playing him the club could have to pay out a shed load more in appearance fees and other bonuses - plus in some cases could trigger contract extentions etc . The thing is Power and Cooper have obviously decided that the club would be better playing 3 from Thompson, Lelan, Branco and Kasim than they would be playing Ward back there until we can land the targets they are looking at . That's there call and to be honest based on Ward's demise last year I think it is a pretty good one . The season is 46 games long and we should judge them in May not 9 Aug - so if it takes a few weeks to get the right players in so be it! . We are not alone in this situation - and we are better place dthan lots - imagine being a Blackpool fan at present! . Ranger, Ajose, N'Guessan etc all didn't arrive until end of Aug last year and Stephens and Troy weren't around until Jan - yet we still finished 8th . Have a little faith in Wes, Thompson x2, Luongo, Kasim and Byrne - who are the core of the team and am certain all will be better this year than last . We just need 1 CB and potentially 1 CF to have our starting XI in place - thats not too bad really with over a week to go and 5 weeks of the transfer window left . Wes Thompson New CB Lelan Branco Byrne Kasim Luongo Thompson Smith Williams . That is not a poor L1 side - plus 8 played in it last year - so know the league and each others games etc now . Even with Nathan at CB and Bathram at RB its still not poor - and certainly nowhere near relegation fodder

Yes Ward declined over the season but I still think he could do a job against teams without blistering pace up front. I'm not convinced that our tippy tappy tactics wasn't the problem in any case as that didn't suit his game at all. It's a bit like the Benson debate last season. Yes Benson's legs had gone but that was slightly different in that we had cover up front. We don't have that at the moment so I would persevere with Ward until we do. Kasim at centre back is an interesting one, has he ever won a header? I would take Ward over Kasim at CB all day long! Let's see how he gets on marking Ranger tonight if he plays, my money's on Ranger holding the ball up with ease. Hope to hear a minute's applause in the 17th minute tonight, just to wind up their chairman!

You wouldn't play Kasim in a back 4 - same way you would never have played Hoddle or Gullit - yet they both played in a back 3!
.
You would have him in the centre with the bigger natural CBs alongsdie him to win the headers - his role would be to cut off the space behind and then start play off by coming out of defence with the ball at his feet
.
Ranger would hold the ball up with ease with any defender in L1 - as he is that good at it!

[quote][p][bold]Wilesy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Wilesy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Wilesy[/bold] wrote: Looking forward to the day that Cooper doesn't identify a glaringly obvious weakness and defend it with the usual 'young squad' / 'boys' /'no money' excuses. Have to say he doesn't seem a very positive person to me but maybe that's just a defensive nature to media. I'm also a bit puzzled why Darren Ward has been binned off so quickly bearing in mind Cooper is well aware of our shortage of centre backs. Completely appreciate he's no spring chicken and isn't in the long-term plans but I would have thought Darren could still have done a job against Supermarine, Bromley etc Cooper could have just not publicly said his future was elsewhere, played him pre-season then he could go off to another club when (or if?) the Premiership loanees arrive to save the day. Plus then there's a bit more leadership on the pitch! The reason for the delay in the Stephens delay is obvious but what is happening with Brad Smith I thought he was left out of the Liverpool tour to tie up a deal here? Plus the other 2 that were mooted? Would be nice to hear from Power on what is happening and if he is concerned about the lack of incoming players. I know he said end of July so yes he's got 2 days to go but still.[/p][/quote]Did you not see, listen, rwad about any games last season? . The reason why Ward was "binned off" should be pretty clear from any of them! . Great person and good leader - but he is clearly no longer a L1 defender and it was costing us more to have him in the team than out of it . As I pointed out many times - after Hall went out injured our defence got WORSE until Ward was dropped after the Wolves game! . A Year later and it is only going to get worse![/p][/quote]Re-read what I've said I'm not advocating building a side around Ward! Just until we get recruits in he could do a job short term even as back up. I don't recall anyone playing well against Wolves we were battered as a team by a far superior side. Not just Wards fault. If I decided to move house because I felt I could get a better one I wouldn't move out but keep paying the mortgage and live on the street until I found the new house then complain I haven't got a house![/p][/quote]Wolves was just the final straw and Ward had been poor for a long run before that! . I highlighted that as it was his last game - it also happened to be the end of our 6 game run without a win - which was followed up by our best run in 25 years - that run saw us play Brentford, Preston and revitalised Sheff U and Bristol - so wasn't an easy run of games by any stretch! . Also wages of players is far more complex than just a basic wage - so by playing him the club could have to pay out a shed load more in appearance fees and other bonuses - plus in some cases could trigger contract extentions etc . The thing is Power and Cooper have obviously decided that the club would be better playing 3 from Thompson, Lelan, Branco and Kasim than they would be playing Ward back there until we can land the targets they are looking at . That's there call and to be honest based on Ward's demise last year I think it is a pretty good one . The season is 46 games long and we should judge them in May not 9 Aug - so if it takes a few weeks to get the right players in so be it! . We are not alone in this situation - and we are better place dthan lots - imagine being a Blackpool fan at present! . Ranger, Ajose, N'Guessan etc all didn't arrive until end of Aug last year and Stephens and Troy weren't around until Jan - yet we still finished 8th . Have a little faith in Wes, Thompson x2, Luongo, Kasim and Byrne - who are the core of the team and am certain all will be better this year than last . We just need 1 CB and potentially 1 CF to have our starting XI in place - thats not too bad really with over a week to go and 5 weeks of the transfer window left . Wes Thompson New CB Lelan Branco Byrne Kasim Luongo Thompson Smith Williams . That is not a poor L1 side - plus 8 played in it last year - so know the league and each others games etc now . Even with Nathan at CB and Bathram at RB its still not poor - and certainly nowhere near relegation fodder[/p][/quote]Yes Ward declined over the season but I still think he could do a job against teams without blistering pace up front. I'm not convinced that our tippy tappy tactics wasn't the problem in any case as that didn't suit his game at all. It's a bit like the Benson debate last season. Yes Benson's legs had gone but that was slightly different in that we had cover up front. We don't have that at the moment so I would persevere with Ward until we do. Kasim at centre back is an interesting one, has he ever won a header? I would take Ward over Kasim at CB all day long! Let's see how he gets on marking Ranger tonight if he plays, my money's on Ranger holding the ball up with ease. Hope to hear a minute's applause in the 17th minute tonight, just to wind up their chairman![/p][/quote]You wouldn't play Kasim in a back 4 - same way you would never have played Hoddle or Gullit - yet they both played in a back 3!
.
You would have him in the centre with the bigger natural CBs alongsdie him to win the headers - his role would be to cut off the space behind and then start play off by coming out of defence with the ball at his feet
.
Ranger would hold the ball up with ease with any defender in L1 - as he is that good at it!London Red

meadowred wrote:
Would like to see Wez to step up to the plate as GK always see more of the game and think as a very talented keeper it would support his development as a player. Understand it is difficult if you dont that in your character to put yourself out there but i`m sure the players would listen to possibly the best talent we with have in the squad, perhaps with the support of the management /backroom staff he could be the voice and captain.

If the Town have a video of the Eastleigh game Wes should listen to the opposition Keeper. He bossed his area and when he shouted "Out! the defence ran out (to Michael Smith's constant embarrassment), when the keeper shouted mark up, they marked Willo tightly. And all over the pitch by shouting they were helping each other. By comparison we needed mind readers. And it repeated all over again against Southampton, which incidentally was why we lost - for all the huff and puff we failed to consistently link up play. Of course we need leaders but they emerge. It just needs more players to be vocal so the play is spread when it needs width and the forwards run the channels when the midfield is ready to deliver. Its not rocket science, its just good training. Its not just the way to defend, its the way to win!

[quote][p][bold]meadowred[/bold] wrote:
Would like to see Wez to step up to the plate as GK always see more of the game and think as a very talented keeper it would support his development as a player. Understand it is difficult if you dont that in your character to put yourself out there but i`m sure the players would listen to possibly the best talent we with have in the squad, perhaps with the support of the management /backroom staff he could be the voice and captain.[/p][/quote]If the Town have a video of the Eastleigh game Wes should listen to the opposition Keeper. He bossed his area and when he shouted "Out! the defence ran out (to Michael Smith's constant embarrassment), when the keeper shouted mark up, they marked Willo tightly. And all over the pitch by shouting they were helping each other. By comparison we needed mind readers. And it repeated all over again against Southampton, which incidentally was why we lost - for all the huff and puff we failed to consistently link up play. Of course we need leaders but they emerge. It just needs more players to be vocal so the play is spread when it needs width and the forwards run the channels when the midfield is ready to deliver. Its not rocket science, its just good training. Its not just the way to defend, its the way to win!MoonrakerinHampshire

Does anyone know kick off time tonight? I asked this on another thread but just got some kn*b giving a sarcastic answer!

Only asking as Saints game was a 7.30 KO not 7.45, wondered if tonight was the same?

Does anyone know kick off time tonight? I asked this on another thread but just got some kn*b giving a sarcastic answer!
Only asking as Saints game was a 7.30 KO not 7.45, wondered if tonight was the same?mossy282

Mossy its 7:45 tonight , not sure why Saints was earlier , evidently attendance tonight will be about the same as Saints game , not bad for friendly , also not sure why they open all 3 sides, in past they usually limit the gates open to reduce the headcount .
Love the way Cooperman quoted as saying best way is to lead by example , "yes thats right Mr Power isn't it , they should lead by example " . I'm the leader so he picks the team and do what he says :0)

Mossy its 7:45 tonight , not sure why Saints was earlier , evidently attendance tonight will be about the same as Saints game , not bad for friendly , also not sure why they open all 3 sides, in past they usually limit the gates open to reduce the headcount .
Love the way Cooperman quoted as saying best way is to lead by example , "yes thats right Mr Power isn't it , they should lead by example " . I'm the leader so he picks the team and do what he says :0)hertz

[quote][p][bold]Swindon1984[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]The Jockster[/bold] wrote: What have I missed with the applause in the 17th minute?[/p][/quote]I'm a bit lost on that one as well.[/p][/quote]Its all to do with this:
http://www.independe
nt.co.uk/sport/footb
all/football-league/
paddy-kenny-sacked-b
y-leeds-owner-massim
o-cellino-after-new-
owner-discovers-he-w
as-born-on-the-17-ma
y--cellinos-unlucky-
number-9581084.htmlLondon Red

Always red wrote:
Relegation this year no if's but's or maybe's no players = no points

Strangely enough Always red, I happened to pick up a Corals Coupon today and they seem to disagree with you on this.
They rate the Town's chances of winning the league at 25-1 against, and to finish roughly half way up or down the final league table.
My guess is that we will avoid the drop, but it might be a bit too close for comfort.

[quote][p][bold]Always red[/bold] wrote:
Relegation this year no if's but's or maybe's no players = no points[/p][/quote]Strangely enough Always red, I happened to pick up a Corals Coupon today and they seem to disagree with you on this.
They rate the Town's chances of winning the league at 25-1 against, and to finish roughly half way up or down the final league table.
My guess is that we will avoid the drop, but it might be a bit too close for comfort.Old-Stager, Hilperton

If Cooper classes these young lads as experienced, then it seems to me that he's pretty desperate.

The team is screaming out for an experienced CB that can lead the line.

A CF as well, I struggle to see where the goals are going to come from this season :-/

I don't think relegation is on the cards, but I think we will struggle, especially if no one is signed up soon...

If Cooper classes these young lads as experienced, then it seems to me that he's pretty desperate.
The team is screaming out for an experienced CB that can lead the line.
A CF as well, I struggle to see where the goals are going to come from this season :-/
I don't think relegation is on the cards, but I think we will struggle, especially if no one is signed up soon...MidlandRobin

Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner.

Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.

Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner.
Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.Oi Den!

Oi Den! wrote:
Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner.

Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.

Very rose tinted view!
.
Some like me on here think Hall was struggling as covering Ward!
.
Also why has Hall gone up a league and Ward can't find anew club?
.
Flint might have struggled alongside Ward last year - he did struggle at City after all
.
Sometimes certain partnerships just don't work - Devera and Flint never did but both were good alongside Macca!

[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote:
Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner.
Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.[/p][/quote]Very rose tinted view!
.
Some like me on here think Hall was struggling as covering Ward!
.
Also why has Hall gone up a league and Ward can't find anew club?
.
Flint might have struggled alongside Ward last year - he did struggle at City after all
.
Sometimes certain partnerships just don't work - Devera and Flint never did but both were good alongside Macca!London Red

Oi Den! wrote:
Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner.

Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.

Very rose tinted view!
.
Some like me on here think Hall was struggling as covering Ward!
.
Also why has Hall gone up a league and Ward can't find anew club?
.
Flint might have struggled alongside Ward last year - he did struggle at City after all
.
Sometimes certain partnerships just don't work - Devera and Flint never did but both were good alongside Macca!

So, overnight Ward went from being a half decent defender to a poor one and it was entirely coincidental that his defensive partner had changed from someone who was dominant in the air to a player who hardly ever won a header (not to mention floundering on the deck as well)?

I have nothing personal against Hall. I don't doubt that he's a very nice lad. However, it was wrong for our club to give him an extended trial when he continued to perform badly. I genuinely hope he does well at Birmingham. When that happens you can say with confidence that he has gone up a league. He hasn't established himself at any level of the game yet. That's why I think it's wrong to lay the blame at Ward's door.

[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote:
Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner.
Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.[/p][/quote]Very rose tinted view!
.
Some like me on here think Hall was struggling as covering Ward!
.
Also why has Hall gone up a league and Ward can't find anew club?
.
Flint might have struggled alongside Ward last year - he did struggle at City after all
.
Sometimes certain partnerships just don't work - Devera and Flint never did but both were good alongside Macca![/p][/quote]So, overnight Ward went from being a half decent defender to a poor one and it was entirely coincidental that his defensive partner had changed from someone who was dominant in the air to a player who hardly ever won a header (not to mention floundering on the deck as well)?
I have nothing personal against Hall. I don't doubt that he's a very nice lad. However, it was wrong for our club to give him an extended trial when he continued to perform badly. I genuinely hope he does well at Birmingham. When that happens you can say with confidence that he has gone up a league. He hasn't established himself at any level of the game yet. That's why I think it's wrong to lay the blame at Ward's door.Oi Den!

you gots ta be kidding me wrote:
Is anybody going to leeds tonight, I can't as I am up in Brum, but I went to the saints game and was dissapointed by the crowd.....

To be fair for a friendly the turnout for Southampton was pretty good. I know the away team brought a fair few but even so - if you look at teams like Peterborough only averaging around 6000-6500 last season in league games, the Saints turnout could've been a lot worse.

What was the gate for the Saints match?

Couldn't find it reported anywhere.

[quote][p][bold]Swindon1984[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]you gots ta be kidding me[/bold] wrote:
Is anybody going to leeds tonight, I can't as I am up in Brum, but I went to the saints game and was dissapointed by the crowd.....[/p][/quote]To be fair for a friendly the turnout for Southampton was pretty good. I know the away team brought a fair few but even so - if you look at teams like Peterborough only averaging around 6000-6500 last season in league games, the Saints turnout could've been a lot worse.[/p][/quote]What was the gate for the Saints match?
Couldn't find it reported anywhere.red white

you gots ta be kidding me wrote:
Is anybody going to leeds tonight, I can't as I am up in Brum, but I went to the saints game and was dissapointed by the crowd.....

To be fair for a friendly the turnout for Southampton was pretty good. I know the away team brought a fair few but even so - if you look at teams like Peterborough only averaging around 6000-6500 last season in league games, the Saints turnout could've been a lot worse.

What was the gate for the Saints match?

Couldn't find it reported anywhere.

Around 3,500 for saints game.

[quote][p][bold]red white[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Swindon1984[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]you gots ta be kidding me[/bold] wrote:
Is anybody going to leeds tonight, I can't as I am up in Brum, but I went to the saints game and was dissapointed by the crowd.....[/p][/quote]To be fair for a friendly the turnout for Southampton was pretty good. I know the away team brought a fair few but even so - if you look at teams like Peterborough only averaging around 6000-6500 last season in league games, the Saints turnout could've been a lot worse.[/p][/quote]What was the gate for the Saints match?
Couldn't find it reported anywhere.[/p][/quote]Around 3,500 for saints game.Di kanny oh

Oi Den! wrote:
Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner.

Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.

Very rose tinted view!
.
Some like me on here think Hall was struggling as covering Ward!
.
Also why has Hall gone up a league and Ward can't find anew club?
.
Flint might have struggled alongside Ward last year - he did struggle at City after all
.
Sometimes certain partnerships just don't work - Devera and Flint never did but both were good alongside Macca!

So, overnight Ward went from being a half decent defender to a poor one and it was entirely coincidental that his defensive partner had changed from someone who was dominant in the air to a player who hardly ever won a header (not to mention floundering on the deck as well)?

I have nothing personal against Hall. I don't doubt that he's a very nice lad. However, it was wrong for our club to give him an extended trial when he continued to perform badly. I genuinely hope he does well at Birmingham. When that happens you can say with confidence that he has gone up a league. He hasn't established himself at any level of the game yet. That's why I think it's wrong to lay the blame at Ward's door.

I have never rated Ward .ALWAYS thought he was slow,,
He could not pass wind let alone a football...
Gave away to many silly free kicks..BUT all this was not helped by are poor tactics and poor midfield...
Cant see it getting any better this season as bloopernan is going to do the same poor tactics this season and the same style of football

[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote:
Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner.
Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.[/p][/quote]Very rose tinted view!
.
Some like me on here think Hall was struggling as covering Ward!
.
Also why has Hall gone up a league and Ward can't find anew club?
.
Flint might have struggled alongside Ward last year - he did struggle at City after all
.
Sometimes certain partnerships just don't work - Devera and Flint never did but both were good alongside Macca![/p][/quote]So, overnight Ward went from being a half decent defender to a poor one and it was entirely coincidental that his defensive partner had changed from someone who was dominant in the air to a player who hardly ever won a header (not to mention floundering on the deck as well)?
I have nothing personal against Hall. I don't doubt that he's a very nice lad. However, it was wrong for our club to give him an extended trial when he continued to perform badly. I genuinely hope he does well at Birmingham. When that happens you can say with confidence that he has gone up a league. He hasn't established himself at any level of the game yet. That's why I think it's wrong to lay the blame at Ward's door.[/p][/quote]I have never rated Ward .ALWAYS thought he was slow,,
He could not pass wind let alone a football...
Gave away to many silly free kicks..BUT all this was not helped by are poor tactics and poor midfield...
Cant see it getting any better this season as bloopernan is going to do the same poor tactics this season and the same style of footballdazzastfc

Oi Den! wrote:
Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner.

Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.

Very rose tinted view!
.
Some like me on here think Hall was struggling as covering Ward!
.
Also why has Hall gone up a league and Ward can't find anew club?
.
Flint might have struggled alongside Ward last year - he did struggle at City after all
.
Sometimes certain partnerships just don't work - Devera and Flint never did but both were good alongside Macca!

So, overnight Ward went from being a half decent defender to a poor one and it was entirely coincidental that his defensive partner had changed from someone who was dominant in the air to a player who hardly ever won a header (not to mention floundering on the deck as well)?

I have nothing personal against Hall. I don't doubt that he's a very nice lad. However, it was wrong for our club to give him an extended trial when he continued to perform badly. I genuinely hope he does well at Birmingham. When that happens you can say with confidence that he has gone up a league. He hasn't established himself at any level of the game yet. That's why I think it's wrong to lay the blame at Ward's door.

I have never rated Ward .ALWAYS thought he was slow,,
He could not pass wind let alone a football...
Gave away to many silly free kicks..BUT all this was not helped by are poor tactics and poor midfield...
Cant see it getting any better this season as bloopernan is going to do the same poor tactics this season and the same style of football

Dazza,

I did not see much wrong with his tactics last season apart perhaps for the 4-6-0 as we were rated 33/1 at the start of the season and were in the running for the play-off's for a long time.

Given that you have slated Ward I suspect that the 4-6-0 formation was employed to shore up a leaky defense. Good tactics or bad tactics ?

Many on here want 4-4-2, great if it works. Same as 3-5-2, 4-1-4-1, 4-3-3. All brilliant when they work. Paolo according to many had no plan B yet we saw all the above formations last season. Given what Mark had to put on the field I thought he did a good job.

We could have gone for it with 4-4-2 every game and lumped the ball forward hoping it landed at a striker's feet. May have been more exciting but may also have cost us dear. The teams that played a possession game last season finished in the top half of the league. Food for thought IMO

COYMR

[quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote:
Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner.
Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.[/p][/quote]Very rose tinted view!
.
Some like me on here think Hall was struggling as covering Ward!
.
Also why has Hall gone up a league and Ward can't find anew club?
.
Flint might have struggled alongside Ward last year - he did struggle at City after all
.
Sometimes certain partnerships just don't work - Devera and Flint never did but both were good alongside Macca![/p][/quote]So, overnight Ward went from being a half decent defender to a poor one and it was entirely coincidental that his defensive partner had changed from someone who was dominant in the air to a player who hardly ever won a header (not to mention floundering on the deck as well)?
I have nothing personal against Hall. I don't doubt that he's a very nice lad. However, it was wrong for our club to give him an extended trial when he continued to perform badly. I genuinely hope he does well at Birmingham. When that happens you can say with confidence that he has gone up a league. He hasn't established himself at any level of the game yet. That's why I think it's wrong to lay the blame at Ward's door.[/p][/quote]I have never rated Ward .ALWAYS thought he was slow,,
He could not pass wind let alone a football...
Gave away to many silly free kicks..BUT all this was not helped by are poor tactics and poor midfield...
Cant see it getting any better this season as bloopernan is going to do the same poor tactics this season and the same style of football[/p][/quote]Dazza,
I did not see much wrong with his tactics last season apart perhaps for the 4-6-0 as we were rated 33/1 at the start of the season and were in the running for the play-off's for a long time.
Given that you have slated Ward I suspect that the 4-6-0 formation was employed to shore up a leaky defense. Good tactics or bad tactics ?
Many on here want 4-4-2, great if it works. Same as 3-5-2, 4-1-4-1, 4-3-3. All brilliant when they work. Paolo according to many had no plan B yet we saw all the above formations last season. Given what Mark had to put on the field I thought he did a good job.
We could have gone for it with 4-4-2 every game and lumped the ball forward hoping it landed at a striker's feet. May have been more exciting but may also have cost us dear. The teams that played a possession game last season finished in the top half of the league. Food for thought IMO
COYMROxon-Red

Oi Den! wrote:
Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner.

Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.

Very rose tinted view!
.
Some like me on here think Hall was struggling as covering Ward!
.
Also why has Hall gone up a league and Ward can't find anew club?
.
Flint might have struggled alongside Ward last year - he did struggle at City after all
.
Sometimes certain partnerships just don't work - Devera and Flint never did but both were good alongside Macca!

So, overnight Ward went from being a half decent defender to a poor one and it was entirely coincidental that his defensive partner had changed from someone who was dominant in the air to a player who hardly ever won a header (not to mention floundering on the deck as well)?

I have nothing personal against Hall. I don't doubt that he's a very nice lad. However, it was wrong for our club to give him an extended trial when he continued to perform badly. I genuinely hope he does well at Birmingham. When that happens you can say with confidence that he has gone up a league. He hasn't established himself at any level of the game yet. That's why I think it's wrong to lay the blame at Ward's door.

I have never rated Ward .ALWAYS thought he was slow,,
He could not pass wind let alone a football...
Gave away to many silly free kicks..BUT all this was not helped by are poor tactics and poor midfield...
Cant see it getting any better this season as bloopernan is going to do the same poor tactics this season and the same style of football

Dazza,

I did not see much wrong with his tactics last season apart perhaps for the 4-6-0 as we were rated 33/1 at the start of the season and were in the running for the play-off's for a long time.

Given that you have slated Ward I suspect that the 4-6-0 formation was employed to shore up a leaky defense. Good tactics or bad tactics ?

Many on here want 4-4-2, great if it works. Same as 3-5-2, 4-1-4-1, 4-3-3. All brilliant when they work. Paolo according to many had no plan B yet we saw all the above formations last season. Given what Mark had to put on the field I thought he did a good job.

We could have gone for it with 4-4-2 every game and lumped the ball forward hoping it landed at a striker's feet. May have been more exciting but may also have cost us dear. The teams that played a possession game last season finished in the top half of the league. Food for thought IMO

COYMR

I got very very bored on many occasions last season..
PASS PASS PASS PASS lose the ball WHOOPS in trouble very time..
If not loads of passing then back pass to wes the wallap..
Very very easy to work out are formation and style of play

Dont get me wrong on some occasions we were fantastic but were not able to keep it up...

Im not slatting anyone for being happy with that as that is there opinion..BUT This is my opinion and how i felt last season

[quote][p][bold]Oxon-Red[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote:
Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner.
Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.[/p][/quote]Very rose tinted view!
.
Some like me on here think Hall was struggling as covering Ward!
.
Also why has Hall gone up a league and Ward can't find anew club?
.
Flint might have struggled alongside Ward last year - he did struggle at City after all
.
Sometimes certain partnerships just don't work - Devera and Flint never did but both were good alongside Macca![/p][/quote]So, overnight Ward went from being a half decent defender to a poor one and it was entirely coincidental that his defensive partner had changed from someone who was dominant in the air to a player who hardly ever won a header (not to mention floundering on the deck as well)?
I have nothing personal against Hall. I don't doubt that he's a very nice lad. However, it was wrong for our club to give him an extended trial when he continued to perform badly. I genuinely hope he does well at Birmingham. When that happens you can say with confidence that he has gone up a league. He hasn't established himself at any level of the game yet. That's why I think it's wrong to lay the blame at Ward's door.[/p][/quote]I have never rated Ward .ALWAYS thought he was slow,,
He could not pass wind let alone a football...
Gave away to many silly free kicks..BUT all this was not helped by are poor tactics and poor midfield...
Cant see it getting any better this season as bloopernan is going to do the same poor tactics this season and the same style of football[/p][/quote]Dazza,
I did not see much wrong with his tactics last season apart perhaps for the 4-6-0 as we were rated 33/1 at the start of the season and were in the running for the play-off's for a long time.
Given that you have slated Ward I suspect that the 4-6-0 formation was employed to shore up a leaky defense. Good tactics or bad tactics ?
Many on here want 4-4-2, great if it works. Same as 3-5-2, 4-1-4-1, 4-3-3. All brilliant when they work. Paolo according to many had no plan B yet we saw all the above formations last season. Given what Mark had to put on the field I thought he did a good job.
We could have gone for it with 4-4-2 every game and lumped the ball forward hoping it landed at a striker's feet. May have been more exciting but may also have cost us dear. The teams that played a possession game last season finished in the top half of the league. Food for thought IMO
COYMR[/p][/quote]I got very very bored on many occasions last season..
PASS PASS PASS PASS lose the ball WHOOPS in trouble very time..
If not loads of passing then back pass to wes the wallap..
Very very easy to work out are formation and style of play
Dont get me wrong on some occasions we were fantastic but were not able to keep it up...
Im not slatting anyone for being happy with that as that is there opinion..BUT This is my opinion and how i felt last seasondazzastfc

Oi Den! wrote:
Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner.

Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.

Very rose tinted view!
.
Some like me on here think Hall was struggling as covering Ward!
.
Also why has Hall gone up a league and Ward can't find anew club?
.
Flint might have struggled alongside Ward last year - he did struggle at City after all
.
Sometimes certain partnerships just don't work - Devera and Flint never did but both were good alongside Macca!

So, overnight Ward went from being a half decent defender to a poor one and it was entirely coincidental that his defensive partner had changed from someone who was dominant in the air to a player who hardly ever won a header (not to mention floundering on the deck as well)?

I have nothing personal against Hall. I don't doubt that he's a very nice lad. However, it was wrong for our club to give him an extended trial when he continued to perform badly. I genuinely hope he does well at Birmingham. When that happens you can say with confidence that he has gone up a league. He hasn't established himself at any level of the game yet. That's why I think it's wrong to lay the blame at Ward's door.

I have never rated Ward .ALWAYS thought he was slow,,
He could not pass wind let alone a football...
Gave away to many silly free kicks..BUT all this was not helped by are poor tactics and poor midfield...
Cant see it getting any better this season as bloopernan is going to do the same poor tactics this season and the same style of football

Dazza,

I did not see much wrong with his tactics last season apart perhaps for the 4-6-0 as we were rated 33/1 at the start of the season and were in the running for the play-off's for a long time.

Given that you have slated Ward I suspect that the 4-6-0 formation was employed to shore up a leaky defense. Good tactics or bad tactics ?

Many on here want 4-4-2, great if it works. Same as 3-5-2, 4-1-4-1, 4-3-3. All brilliant when they work. Paolo according to many had no plan B yet we saw all the above formations last season. Given what Mark had to put on the field I thought he did a good job.

We could have gone for it with 4-4-2 every game and lumped the ball forward hoping it landed at a striker's feet. May have been more exciting but may also have cost us dear. The teams that played a possession game last season finished in the top half of the league. Food for thought IMO

COYMR

I got very very bored on many occasions last season..
PASS PASS PASS PASS lose the ball WHOOPS in trouble very time..
If not loads of passing then back pass to wes the wallap..
Very very easy to work out are formation and style of play

Dont get me wrong on some occasions we were fantastic but were not able to keep it up...

Im not slatting anyone for being happy with that as that is there opinion..BUT This is my opinion and how i felt last season

Hi Dazza,

I don't disagree it was boring in some games but the fantastic moments made up for it. My opinion, but I felt we were learning last season and would push on this season. We have lost a few players but the engine is basically in tact.

We need to sort the defence out with a few signings (permanent or loan) and perhaps a striker but I see no reason why we cannot push on. Football has changed and the goalkeeper is now a sweeper in the modern game. Look back to before the back pass rule, how many times did the defence use it ? Not much difference except the keeper cannot pick the ball up.

There is no right or wrong way to play football IMO but those that adapt tend to make progress. I have just attended an FA coaching course and the emphasis of the drills are very much on possession and passing.

Do agree, possession can at times be boring but you then have to look at the tactics of the opposition and say "yep, they got it right" and it is up to Mark to change it and find another tactic. That IMO is what makes the likes of Mourinho wanted men.

Easy to say 4-4-2 but you and I will have seen games where Town have been totally inept and boring playing that formation Not an easy job pleasing everyone but I do feel Mark has done a good job in the circumstances.

Hoping for, rather than predicting, a good season and hope the fantastic occasions outweigh the boring ones.

I will keep the faith and support the club as I will never support another.

COYMR

[quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Oxon-Red[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote:
Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner.
Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.[/p][/quote]Very rose tinted view!
.
Some like me on here think Hall was struggling as covering Ward!
.
Also why has Hall gone up a league and Ward can't find anew club?
.
Flint might have struggled alongside Ward last year - he did struggle at City after all
.
Sometimes certain partnerships just don't work - Devera and Flint never did but both were good alongside Macca![/p][/quote]So, overnight Ward went from being a half decent defender to a poor one and it was entirely coincidental that his defensive partner had changed from someone who was dominant in the air to a player who hardly ever won a header (not to mention floundering on the deck as well)?
I have nothing personal against Hall. I don't doubt that he's a very nice lad. However, it was wrong for our club to give him an extended trial when he continued to perform badly. I genuinely hope he does well at Birmingham. When that happens you can say with confidence that he has gone up a league. He hasn't established himself at any level of the game yet. That's why I think it's wrong to lay the blame at Ward's door.[/p][/quote]I have never rated Ward .ALWAYS thought he was slow,,
He could not pass wind let alone a football...
Gave away to many silly free kicks..BUT all this was not helped by are poor tactics and poor midfield...
Cant see it getting any better this season as bloopernan is going to do the same poor tactics this season and the same style of football[/p][/quote]Dazza,
I did not see much wrong with his tactics last season apart perhaps for the 4-6-0 as we were rated 33/1 at the start of the season and were in the running for the play-off's for a long time.
Given that you have slated Ward I suspect that the 4-6-0 formation was employed to shore up a leaky defense. Good tactics or bad tactics ?
Many on here want 4-4-2, great if it works. Same as 3-5-2, 4-1-4-1, 4-3-3. All brilliant when they work. Paolo according to many had no plan B yet we saw all the above formations last season. Given what Mark had to put on the field I thought he did a good job.
We could have gone for it with 4-4-2 every game and lumped the ball forward hoping it landed at a striker's feet. May have been more exciting but may also have cost us dear. The teams that played a possession game last season finished in the top half of the league. Food for thought IMO
COYMR[/p][/quote]I got very very bored on many occasions last season..
PASS PASS PASS PASS lose the ball WHOOPS in trouble very time..
If not loads of passing then back pass to wes the wallap..
Very very easy to work out are formation and style of play
Dont get me wrong on some occasions we were fantastic but were not able to keep it up...
Im not slatting anyone for being happy with that as that is there opinion..BUT This is my opinion and how i felt last season[/p][/quote]Hi Dazza,
I don't disagree it was boring in some games but the fantastic moments made up for it. My opinion, but I felt we were learning last season and would push on this season. We have lost a few players but the engine is basically in tact.
We need to sort the defence out with a few signings (permanent or loan) and perhaps a striker but I see no reason why we cannot push on. Football has changed and the goalkeeper is now a sweeper in the modern game. Look back to before the back pass rule, how many times did the defence use it ? Not much difference except the keeper cannot pick the ball up.
There is no right or wrong way to play football IMO but those that adapt tend to make progress. I have just attended an FA coaching course and the emphasis of the drills are very much on possession and passing.
Do agree, possession can at times be boring but you then have to look at the tactics of the opposition and say "yep, they got it right" and it is up to Mark to change it and find another tactic. That IMO is what makes the likes of Mourinho wanted men.
Easy to say 4-4-2 but you and I will have seen games where Town have been totally inept and boring playing that formation Not an easy job pleasing everyone but I do feel Mark has done a good job in the circumstances.
Hoping for, rather than predicting, a good season and hope the fantastic occasions outweigh the boring ones.
I will keep the faith and support the club as I will never support another.
COYMROxon-Red

Oxon, I don't think you'd find many voices against a passing game. It's passing without pace or purpose that bores people. It was just about tolerable last season because the whole season was a damage limitation exercise. That was last season, which we were told was all about building for this season. If we have to suffer the same negative approach again because we are again not strong enough to do otherwise, the natives will not just be restless, some will find alternative entertainment. And if we have 3 or 4 loan players in the first eleven, will we be going through the same recruitment process again in a year's time and, if so, can you see an end to the cycle?

Oxon, I don't think you'd find many voices against a passing game. It's passing without pace or purpose that bores people. It was just about tolerable last season because the whole season was a damage limitation exercise. That was last season, which we were told was all about building for this season. If we have to suffer the same negative approach again because we are again not strong enough to do otherwise, the natives will not just be restless, some will find alternative entertainment. And if we have 3 or 4 loan players in the first eleven, will we be going through the same recruitment process again in a year's time and, if so, can you see an end to the cycle?Oi Den!

Oi Den! wrote:
Oxon, I don't think you'd find many voices against a passing game. It's passing without pace or purpose that bores people. It was just about tolerable last season because the whole season was a damage limitation exercise. That was last season, which we were told was all about building for this season. If we have to suffer the same negative approach again because we are again not strong enough to do otherwise, the natives will not just be restless, some will find alternative entertainment. And if we have 3 or 4 loan players in the first eleven, will we be going through the same recruitment process again in a year's time and, if so, can you see an end to the cycle?

Den,

I would disagree on the negativity about the passing game as there are several on here that want the ball lumped forward, Harley being the protagonist. Can I ask what a "negative approach is", I extolled the virtues of Mourinho on a post, he in the past was certainly negative at times but got results. I don't look at it as negative but patient, you may wish to differ.

IMO the engine of the team is the midfield and, again,, IMO, that is largely unchanged from last season. You, yourself, have been calling for 4 players I believe (3 defensive and 1 attacking). I am not going to go into the loan/permanent debate but it would seem that you agree in principal (with me and Mark) that we could be okay if strengthened in these areas.

I do not expect us to be promoted but in the same breath I do not expect us to struggle. If the natives are restless then perhaps they should apply for the manager's position. Three teams get promoted each season and four get relegated so I can perhaps understand why some say we have more chance of going down but why when the season hasn't started yet ?

If the natives really want success perhaps they should pretend to support Man U or Chelsea or Man City etc because in reality supporting Town they should hope rather than expect.

COYMR

[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote:
Oxon, I don't think you'd find many voices against a passing game. It's passing without pace or purpose that bores people. It was just about tolerable last season because the whole season was a damage limitation exercise. That was last season, which we were told was all about building for this season. If we have to suffer the same negative approach again because we are again not strong enough to do otherwise, the natives will not just be restless, some will find alternative entertainment. And if we have 3 or 4 loan players in the first eleven, will we be going through the same recruitment process again in a year's time and, if so, can you see an end to the cycle?[/p][/quote]Den,
I would disagree on the negativity about the passing game as there are several on here that want the ball lumped forward, Harley being the protagonist. Can I ask what a "negative approach is", I extolled the virtues of Mourinho on a post, he in the past was certainly negative at times but got results. I don't look at it as negative but patient, you may wish to differ.
IMO the engine of the team is the midfield and, again,, IMO, that is largely unchanged from last season. You, yourself, have been calling for 4 players I believe (3 defensive and 1 attacking). I am not going to go into the loan/permanent debate but it would seem that you agree in principal (with me and Mark) that we could be okay if strengthened in these areas.
I do not expect us to be promoted but in the same breath I do not expect us to struggle. If the natives are restless then perhaps they should apply for the manager's position. Three teams get promoted each season and four get relegated so I can perhaps understand why some say we have more chance of going down but why when the season hasn't started yet ?
If the natives really want success perhaps they should pretend to support Man U or Chelsea or Man City etc because in reality supporting Town they should hope rather than expect.
COYMROxon-Red

Oi Den! wrote: Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner. Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.

Very rose tinted view! . Some like me on here think Hall was struggling as covering Ward! . Also why has Hall gone up a league and Ward can't find anew club? . Flint might have struggled alongside Ward last year - he did struggle at City after all . Sometimes certain partnerships just don't work - Devera and Flint never did but both were good alongside Macca!

So, overnight Ward went from being a half decent defender to a poor one and it was entirely coincidental that his defensive partner had changed from someone who was dominant in the air to a player who hardly ever won a header (not to mention floundering on the deck as well)? I have nothing personal against Hall. I don't doubt that he's a very nice lad. However, it was wrong for our club to give him an extended trial when he continued to perform badly. I genuinely hope he does well at Birmingham. When that happens you can say with confidence that he has gone up a league. He hasn't established himself at any level of the game yet. That's why I think it's wrong to lay the blame at Ward's door.

I have never rated Ward .ALWAYS thought he was slow,, He could not pass wind let alone a football... Gave away to many silly free kicks..BUT all this was not helped by are poor tactics and poor midfield... Cant see it getting any better this season as bloopernan is going to do the same poor tactics this season and the same style of football

Dazza, I did not see much wrong with his tactics last season apart perhaps for the 4-6-0 as we were rated 33/1 at the start of the season and were in the running for the play-off's for a long time. Given that you have slated Ward I suspect that the 4-6-0 formation was employed to shore up a leaky defense. Good tactics or bad tactics ? Many on here want 4-4-2, great if it works. Same as 3-5-2, 4-1-4-1, 4-3-3. All brilliant when they work. Paolo according to many had no plan B yet we saw all the above formations last season. Given what Mark had to put on the field I thought he did a good job. We could have gone for it with 4-4-2 every game and lumped the ball forward hoping it landed at a striker's feet. May have been more exciting but may also have cost us dear. The teams that played a possession game last season finished in the top half of the league. Food for thought IMO COYMR

I got very very bored on many occasions last season.. PASS PASS PASS PASS lose the ball WHOOPS in trouble very time.. If not loads of passing then back pass to wes the wallap.. Very very easy to work out are formation and style of play Dont get me wrong on some occasions we were fantastic but were not able to keep it up... Im not slatting anyone for being happy with that as that is there opinion..BUT This is my opinion and how i felt last season

Not often I agree with you Dazza but I have to say, you've got it in a nutshell there - there was a lot of passing across the field and going home, or passing around our own box, losing it and gifting chances away, or most frustratingly, being on a good run of passing in the opposition half, but no-one having the foresight to make a run, have a dig etc, so invariably we'd go from being on the edge of their box right back to ours - I'd said a few times last season there were times when teams must have loved playing against us, as we only seemed to want to go backwards.

[quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Oxon-Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: Ward was never the greatest of defenders but he's not the worst by a long way. Yes, he was poor last season but It amazes me to read LR and others blaming him for our defensive ills. Strange how he had a good season with the presence of Flint alongside him and the struggled when he had to try to do the job of 2 men because Hall was like a fish out of water! I'm with Wilesy. We should have been looking for a big brick outhouse defender and given Ward another crack of the whip as his partner. Incidentally, our flimsy midfield put a lot of pressure on the defence last season too.[/p][/quote]Very rose tinted view! . Some like me on here think Hall was struggling as covering Ward! . Also why has Hall gone up a league and Ward can't find anew club? . Flint might have struggled alongside Ward last year - he did struggle at City after all . Sometimes certain partnerships just don't work - Devera and Flint never did but both were good alongside Macca![/p][/quote]So, overnight Ward went from being a half decent defender to a poor one and it was entirely coincidental that his defensive partner had changed from someone who was dominant in the air to a player who hardly ever won a header (not to mention floundering on the deck as well)? I have nothing personal against Hall. I don't doubt that he's a very nice lad. However, it was wrong for our club to give him an extended trial when he continued to perform badly. I genuinely hope he does well at Birmingham. When that happens you can say with confidence that he has gone up a league. He hasn't established himself at any level of the game yet. That's why I think it's wrong to lay the blame at Ward's door.[/p][/quote]I have never rated Ward .ALWAYS thought he was slow,, He could not pass wind let alone a football... Gave away to many silly free kicks..BUT all this was not helped by are poor tactics and poor midfield... Cant see it getting any better this season as bloopernan is going to do the same poor tactics this season and the same style of football[/p][/quote]Dazza, I did not see much wrong with his tactics last season apart perhaps for the 4-6-0 as we were rated 33/1 at the start of the season and were in the running for the play-off's for a long time. Given that you have slated Ward I suspect that the 4-6-0 formation was employed to shore up a leaky defense. Good tactics or bad tactics ? Many on here want 4-4-2, great if it works. Same as 3-5-2, 4-1-4-1, 4-3-3. All brilliant when they work. Paolo according to many had no plan B yet we saw all the above formations last season. Given what Mark had to put on the field I thought he did a good job. We could have gone for it with 4-4-2 every game and lumped the ball forward hoping it landed at a striker's feet. May have been more exciting but may also have cost us dear. The teams that played a possession game last season finished in the top half of the league. Food for thought IMO COYMR[/p][/quote]I got very very bored on many occasions last season.. PASS PASS PASS PASS lose the ball WHOOPS in trouble very time.. If not loads of passing then back pass to wes the wallap.. Very very easy to work out are formation and style of play Dont get me wrong on some occasions we were fantastic but were not able to keep it up... Im not slatting anyone for being happy with that as that is there opinion..BUT This is my opinion and how i felt last season[/p][/quote]Not often I agree with you Dazza but I have to say, you've got it in a nutshell there - there was a lot of passing across the field and going home, or passing around our own box, losing it and gifting chances away, or most frustratingly, being on a good run of passing in the opposition half, but no-one having the foresight to make a run, have a dig etc, so invariably we'd go from being on the edge of their box right back to ours - I'd said a few times last season there were times when teams must have loved playing against us, as we only seemed to want to go backwards.Swindon1984

Oi Den! wrote:
Oxon, I don't think you'd find many voices against a passing game. It's passing without pace or purpose that bores people. It was just about tolerable last season because the whole season was a damage limitation exercise. That was last season, which we were told was all about building for this season. If we have to suffer the same negative approach again because we are again not strong enough to do otherwise, the natives will not just be restless, some will find alternative entertainment. And if we have 3 or 4 loan players in the first eleven, will we be going through the same recruitment process again in a year's time and, if so, can you see an end to the cycle?

Den,

I would disagree on the negativity about the passing game as there are several on here that want the ball lumped forward, Harley being the protagonist. Can I ask what a &quot;negative approach is", I extolled the virtues of Mourinho on a post, he in the past was certainly negative at times but got results. I don't look at it as negative but patient, you may wish to differ.

IMO the engine of the team is the midfield and, again,, IMO, that is largely unchanged from last season. You, yourself, have been calling for 4 players I believe (3 defensive and 1 attacking). I am not going to go into the loan/permanent debate but it would seem that you agree in principal (with me and Mark) that we could be okay if strengthened in these areas.

I do not expect us to be promoted but in the same breath I do not expect us to struggle. If the natives are restless then perhaps they should apply for the manager's position. Three teams get promoted each season and four get relegated so I can perhaps understand why some say we have more chance of going down but why when the season hasn't started yet ?

If the natives really want success perhaps they should pretend to support Man U or Chelsea or Man City etc because in reality supporting Town they should hope rather than expect.

COYMR

Oxon, I don't want to argue with you about one word. Whether we were patient or negative is not the point. Many people found the play boring. I know several people who gave up on spending 25 quids time, simply because they believed they were getting poor value for money. Even people who had paid their money up front were not turning up - and you could see it in the gaps in the crowd.

You might recall that I was actually a supporter of the patient or negative approach, not because I liked it but because I thought it was the only way we were going to survive last season. We achieved several very unlikely wins by playing that way.

The question I ask is: do we have to put up with that style of play again? If we do, then surely we haven't moved forward, despite all the talk of last season being a platform for a positive 2014/15?

I don't see the relevance of your mention of big Premier League clubs. We're not talking about glory hunting; we're talking about our own team giving us hope and giving us excitement by having a go.

I do agree about the 3 or 4 players needed. We have needed them for about 18 months. The club doesn't seem to think we need to strengthen the midfield though, which could be a big mistake. They must be very confident that Luongo and Kasim will show more dynamism this season and that the excellent Louis Thompson will develop more quickly than we should reasonably expect.

[quote][p][bold]Oxon-Red[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote:
Oxon, I don't think you'd find many voices against a passing game. It's passing without pace or purpose that bores people. It was just about tolerable last season because the whole season was a damage limitation exercise. That was last season, which we were told was all about building for this season. If we have to suffer the same negative approach again because we are again not strong enough to do otherwise, the natives will not just be restless, some will find alternative entertainment. And if we have 3 or 4 loan players in the first eleven, will we be going through the same recruitment process again in a year's time and, if so, can you see an end to the cycle?[/p][/quote]Den,
I would disagree on the negativity about the passing game as there are several on here that want the ball lumped forward, Harley being the protagonist. Can I ask what a "negative approach is", I extolled the virtues of Mourinho on a post, he in the past was certainly negative at times but got results. I don't look at it as negative but patient, you may wish to differ.
IMO the engine of the team is the midfield and, again,, IMO, that is largely unchanged from last season. You, yourself, have been calling for 4 players I believe (3 defensive and 1 attacking). I am not going to go into the loan/permanent debate but it would seem that you agree in principal (with me and Mark) that we could be okay if strengthened in these areas.
I do not expect us to be promoted but in the same breath I do not expect us to struggle. If the natives are restless then perhaps they should apply for the manager's position. Three teams get promoted each season and four get relegated so I can perhaps understand why some say we have more chance of going down but why when the season hasn't started yet ?
If the natives really want success perhaps they should pretend to support Man U or Chelsea or Man City etc because in reality supporting Town they should hope rather than expect.
COYMR[/p][/quote]Oxon, I don't want to argue with you about one word. Whether we were patient or negative is not the point. Many people found the play boring. I know several people who gave up on spending 25 quids time, simply because they believed they were getting poor value for money. Even people who had paid their money up front were not turning up - and you could see it in the gaps in the crowd.
You might recall that I was actually a supporter of the patient or negative approach, not because I liked it but because I thought it was the only way we were going to survive last season. We achieved several very unlikely wins by playing that way.
The question I ask is: do we have to put up with that style of play again? If we do, then surely we haven't moved forward, despite all the talk of last season being a platform for a positive 2014/15?
I don't see the relevance of your mention of big Premier League clubs. We're not talking about glory hunting; we're talking about our own team giving us hope and giving us excitement by having a go.
I do agree about the 3 or 4 players needed. We have needed them for about 18 months. The club doesn't seem to think we need to strengthen the midfield though, which could be a big mistake. They must be very confident that Luongo and Kasim will show more dynamism this season and that the excellent Louis Thompson will develop more quickly than we should reasonably expect.Oi Den!