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Karate Class & Insurance prices

I've just been talking to a fmily member who has taken her son to a local karate class asked me if i thought the charges being imposed were excessive. On the day they turned up she was told to pay a £6.50 class fee for a 90 miute class and give the instructor bank details so that he could take out £25.00 for four months insurance. She asked if there was a trial period for the club but the instrucor said "no we cant offer a free class because if the students injured then we are not covered!" (something i've not heard of before). She was told that should her son continue to train after 4 months he will pass a grading which will show he is 1/2 way towards earning his first belt. After this four month period there is then an anuual insurance cost of £125, then he would need to pay for his Karate Passport (which I assume would be his grading / record book). It was also stipulated to her that by the 4th lesson the Gi & protective equipment would need to be brought through them otherwise her son would not be permitted to train until he has everything required.

I've already given my opinion on the above charges and would be interested to see what everyone here thinks about this? Personally my class charges are no where near what is being asked at this particular club.

in the club that I am a member at there are two ways to become a member. When you are a beginner you have the chance to attend a special introductory course. There a small fee has to be paid and after you finished you can become a regular member. For advanced students there is the possibility for a two week trial period that would equal 8 times of free training.

So that sounds to me that they are very eager to sign new members if possible for a long term contract of one year or so. I wouldn't do that. Rob Redmond a.k.a. 24FightingChickens once wrote a very good article about that issue. Take a look here: http://www.24fightingchickens.com/2006/09/29/contracts/.

One thing I forgot to mention above was that when asked about what dan grade the instructor held he replied "I have no dan grade, im a sensei" this tickled me a little, and I came to the same conclusion that you have all mentioned.

One thing I forgot to mention above was that when asked about what dan grade the instructor held he replied "I have no dan grade, im a sensei" this tickled me a little, and I came to the same conclusion that you have all mentioned.

Thanks

Andy

There's only one school I know that has Non Dan grades teaching classes etc with these credentials is Go Kan Ryu. The NGB that licences them and recognises there Dan Grades etc is one that begins with "N", ends in "S"

When I asked the Chairman of the the said orgainisation why he allows it, I got an Abrupt answer.

Although when I was looking at opening my school with the same Organisation when i was a 1st Kyu I wsa told I had to be at least !st Dan..............

The worm has turned, double standards, if the amount of money is correct, you can get away with it.

When I visit a new class I always offer to pay for the session but in reality I expect the instructor to say "That's OK you can have the first session free to see if you like it or not". It's a test really. If they want cash right away it's a red flag.

If they want £25 it's a MASSIVE red flag!

A new beginner, IMHO, shouldn't be doing anything in class that would warrant them being insured. Certainly no sparring or contact that might injure a third party. A bit of basics and exercises that would, or should, be covered by the instructors insurance should something untoward happen. Aerobics instructors don't require someone to take out insurance before they do aerobics with them so I can't see why a Karate instructor should.

The fact this is an association well known for door stepping people, having badly qualified instructors and all based around money I'd advise your friend to AVOID.

I'm assuming the club is uk based if so hopefully I can expand on what others have said.

There are not many companies that offer insurance for martial arts instructors. 1 is called TL risk solutions (although they keep changing their name to variations on this-but they are legit). I get my insurance direct from them but I have a decent number if students supporting me (250 ish). You can get your policy via feko, nakmas, bcka, ekf and many many more (I am also a member of a couple of these for reasons other than insurance)

i have the top level of cover the company offers. This costs about £800 a year and insures me and the buildings I use for millions of pounds.

Anyone that enters my class is covered. If its their first ever time or if they are a 11th dan master is every martial arts they could invent. They do not been to take out any individual cover, in fact I doubt this really exists.

The insurance company told me they do not cover individual members. They cover an instructor and people in the class. Its a fairly low risk activity really.

I hate it when classes make this "insurance" or "licence" claim as it bull sh1t really. It is club membership and there is nothing wrong with asking people to take out membership to the club if they wish too.

My club members get cheaper lessons than non members, they are entitled to grade under my syllabus if they wish and they can attend some members only sessions and seminars that I put on all funded out of their membership.

I'm assuming the club is uk based if so hopefully I can expand on what others have said.

There are not many companies that offer insurance for martial arts instructors. 1 is called TL risk solutions (although they keep changing their name to variations on this-but they are legit). I get my insurance direct from them but I have a decent number if students supporting me (250 ish). You can get your policy via feko, nakmas, bcka, ekf and many many more (I am also a member of a couple of these for reasons other than insurance)

i have the top level of cover the company offers. This costs about £800 a year and insures me and the buildings I use for millions of pounds.

Anyone that enters my class is covered. If its their first ever time or if they are a 11th dan master is every martial arts they could invent. They do not been to take out any individual cover, in fact I doubt this really exists.

The insurance company told me they do not cover individual members. They cover an instructor and people in the class. Its a fairly low risk activity really.

I hate it when classes make this "insurance" or "licence" claim as it bull sh1t really. It is club membership and there is nothing wrong with asking people to take out membership to the club if they wish too.

My club members get cheaper lessons than non members, they are entitled to grade under my syllabus if they wish and they can attend some members only sessions and seminars that I put on all funded out of their membership.

That's interesting.

I'm with the same company, pay about £200 per instructor for PI and PA, but I also purchase named individual student policies from them to cover my students in case they are also individually sued as well as me in the event of a serious accident. This is additional cover. The students are covered as a group by my insurance, but they are also covered individually - this gives them individual benefits and payments not provided for by my insurance if they are injured.

The company I was with previously used to offer different tiers of student insurance (in addition to instructor insurance). One was named, the other was per numbers. I went for the more expensive named policies. It turned out that in the case of the 'by the numbers' policies, the head of that providing group had been committing fraud and not registering the numbers with the insurers, so when a subsidiary group using them (AMA) made claims, their members weren't covered. When this came out I rang the source insurance provider who was able to confirm to me all my students were individually covered because I'd registered their names. The head of that group received a jail sentence.

Bulk Insurance (covers 50, 100, 150, 200 students etc - Member to member at a fee but means more "profit" for the Instructor - One NGB I was with the fee for me as an Instructor was £7, I know some in the group were charging £40 a profit of £33 a year)

Individual Member Insurance (Covers Member to member Liability) what small Clubs have and the NGB charges around £15 - £20 for this (not too sure why as with above could get it for £7 a year)

Waivers carry no weight as such in the UK as you cannot waive your rights and responsibilities, but an appropiately worded document can be used as proof of awareness of risk and that you as an instructor have followed your duty of care (eg along with medical questionaires, safety briefs, risk assessments).

The bit about no trial period due to no insurance is probably true although I suspect almost everyone does do trial periods or a trial lesson. It's a risk balance.

I have Liability Waver Forms which every new member signs

They're similar to the "Users of the Carpark do so at their own risk" statement on carpark etc

Not to sure if its worth the paper its written on but its there anyway

My organisation have created them but I choose to not use them. I suppose it's one more thing for legal teams to fight over. However tyhey don't make any difference to your legal rights and if an instructor is negligent, then the insructor is negligent. No waiver can remove that.