Move over Discord, Mumble has rolled back into town with a massive new release for this open source voice chat application.

This is the first major release of Mumble in a few years, so of course it comes with some truly massive changes. Checking on it Mumble 1.2 was release all the way back in December, 2009! Nearly 10 years in the making—holy cow!

Here's some highlights for you:

New Lite and Dark themes.

Individual user volume adjustment.

A new shortcut to change your voice transmission mode between: voice activation, push to talk and continuous and a toolbar to select it too.

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scaineWhy the Discord hate here? Every time someone shouts "spyware" about this app, I do another little search on the internet and yet every time, I seem to end up on the usual fairly paranoid forum and reddit posts that simply put Discord in the same basket as Steam and Facebook.

Well, you're reading Reddit. Not sure why I'm surprised?

As one who has been vocal about it many times all I can say is bullshit. Look at their client yourself if you think people are being "paranoid" (why is that even derogatory here?). The process logging is a --TINY-- part of the problem. And no, you cannot just "opt-out", try it. Go on, we'll wait. What's that? You can't?

While I don't know the truth about Discord, I can read English. You are incorrectly parsing what you're replying to and this is leading you to be inaccurately insulting. Scaine did not say that Scaine typically hangs out on or relies on Reddit. Scaine said that when he does an internet search on this topic, all it ever seems to turn up is Reddit discussions and similar things.
Ironically, both of you are critiquing and devaluing the other side's position for association with Reddit. But the difference is that you're doing it based on misconstruing (deliberately?) the other person's meaning.

scaineWhy the Discord hate here? Every time someone shouts "spyware" about this app, I do another little search on the internet and yet every time, I seem to end up on the usual fairly paranoid forum and reddit posts that simply put Discord in the same basket as Steam and Facebook.

Well, you're reading Reddit. Not sure why I'm surprised?

As one who has been vocal about it many times all I can say is bullshit. Look at their client yourself if you think people are being "paranoid" (why is that even derogatory here?). The process logging is a --TINY-- part of the problem. And no, you cannot just "opt-out", try it. Go on, we'll wait. What's that? You can't?

While I don't know the truth about Discord, I can read English. You are incorrectly parsing what you're replying to and this is leading you to be inaccurately insulting. Scaine did not say that Scaine typically hangs out on or relies on Reddit. Scaine said that when he does an internet search on this topic, all it ever seems to turn up is Reddit discussions and similar things.
Ironically, both of you are critiquing and devaluing the other side's position for association with Reddit. But the difference is that you're doing it based on misconstruing (deliberately?) the other person's meaning.

I have to admit, I wasn't trying to devalue anyone's opinion. I've re-read my comment(s) and I honestly don't think I was being particularly harsh. I just can't find any evidence against Discord that isn't based on a general hatred of all things proprietary.

And I'll say it again (more respectfully this time perhaps): if that's your stance, that's great It's genuinely admirable. It's not for me though, and it does definitely grind my gears to be insulted by such paragons of virtue just because I don't share those ideals. I work in cyber security - I'm not a "brainless gamer" just because I use Discord.

It amazes me how much vitriol people with these ideals throw around. It's a weird superiority complex and I recognise it because frankly anyone who uses Linux daily probably harbours something of that complex for people who use Windows.

And we should be better than that as a community. You don't convert a Windows user by telling them that they're a blubbering idiot for using Windows. You convert them by showing them why Linux is better. That hardly ever happens though. Sneering condescension isn't going to win anyone over.

monnefI recently switched from old Kubuntu to Manjaro, so after few years of occasional old Mumble use, I got the new version from Manjaro. GUI is considerably better, but the sound quality is appalling - constant crackling, few seconds delayed echo from headphones and other people. I tried turning off everything which seemed it could be causing it (noise reduction and similar), I double checked it is using correct devices (which work in other software), but I still can't use it, it's just too broken. Anyone having same issue or any idea how to resolve this?

I switched to Matrix/Riot, but I would prefer to continue using Mumble .

That sounds like the issues I was having, to be honest. I switched to Teamspeak and the voice quality is incredible. Discord's quality is also very good. No idea what I was doing wrong in Mumble, as others have definitely had great experiences with it, but I never managed to get to the bottom of it myself. I still use Teamspeak for chatting on LAN and Discord for chatting on internet.

scaineWhy the Discord hate here? Every time someone shouts "spyware" about this app, I do another little search on the internet and yet every time, I seem to end up on the usual fairly paranoid forum and reddit posts that simply put Discord in the same basket as Steam and Facebook.

Well, you're reading Reddit. Not sure why I'm surprised?

As one who has been vocal about it many times all I can say is bullshit. Look at their client yourself if you think people are being "paranoid" (why is that even derogatory here?). The process logging is a --TINY-- part of the problem. And no, you cannot just "opt-out", try it. Go on, we'll wait. What's that? You can't?

Sorry, I'm not really following. Why can't I opt-out? The option is right there under "Game Activity".

Or if we're back on the proprietary software hate, and it's an issue of trust (or you have actual proof that the option doesn't change anything) there's always the option of running it in a Flatpak or Snap, I suppose.

But if the option really does nothing, wouldn't that be weird? After all, it's not as if my game activity is
a) worth anything and
b) not already public on Steam

scaineSorry, I'm not really following. Why can't I opt-out? The option is right there under "Game Activity".

The option you're referring to only affects updating your status. As of last week the data is still collected.

scaineOr if we're back on the proprietary software hate, and it's an issue of trust (or you have actual proof that the option doesn't change anything) there's always the option of running it in a Flatpak or Snap, I suppose.

Your strawman isn't going to work. Proprietary has nothing to do with what I said. Fact that you'd suggest Flatpak or Snap as options is baffling.

scaineBut if the option really does nothing, wouldn't that be weird?

Yes, that's my point.

scaineAfter all, it's not as if my game activity is
a) worth anything and
b) not already public on Steam

The importance you place on your privacy, or lacktherof, is not my concern. The data -is- valuable and no, it isn't public on Steam. Profile is set to private.

scaineSorry, I'm not really following. Why can't I opt-out? The option is right there under "Game Activity".

The option you're referring to only affects updating your status. As of last week the data is still collected.

scaineOr if we're back on the proprietary software hate, and it's an issue of trust (or you have actual proof that the option doesn't change anything) there's always the option of running it in a Flatpak or Snap, I suppose.

Your strawman isn't going to work. Proprietary has nothing to do with what I said. Fact that you'd suggest Flatpak or Snap as options is baffling.

scaineBut if the option really does nothing, wouldn't that be weird?

Yes, that's my point.

scaineAfter all, it's not as if my game activity is
a) worth anything and
b) not already public on Steam

The importance you place on your privacy, or lacktherof, is not my concern. The data -is- valuable and no, it isn't public on Steam. Profile is set to private.

You're being weirdly hostile about this. But to address your arguments in turn:

1. How do you know the data is collected even after I turn the option off? What are you seeing that you base this comment on?

2. It's not baffling, unless you don't understand how they work, maybe. Flatpacks and Snaps run their payload in a sandbox. So if you run Discord in a sandbox, it can't expose your privacy (beyond the login credentials, I suppose). It can't, for example, quiz the process list to see what games I'm playing, even if the logger is allowed to run AND the option to turn it off is ignored. As an aside, it's not a strawman - I wasn't attacking you (the definition of a strawman argument), I was referencing that every single argument against Discord appears to be because it's proprietary. To elaborate, I think that if you put aside the issues you have with the company behind it, you could trust Discord if it was open source, because then you'd have hard evidence that turning off the process logger has no effect. Correct me if I'm wrong. But this way, you could see the source. You could code out unwanted behaviours and compile it yourself to ensure integrity. Hence, all the issues people have with Discord is that they don't trust Discord to do what they ask it to do (e.g. don't record my game activity).

3. My steam profile is public. Hence, my game activity, recorded by discord, has no value to discord. At least in the context of "should I run discord, since it collects my game data"? Is your public address valuable? Not if it's freely available in a phone book it's not. It's only valuable when it's collated against other data sets. In summary, it's certainly of no importance to me. I don't consider "what I play" to be an interesting piece of information that I need to protect. Again, for the avoidance of doubt, if you do, that's cool, and perhaps admirable, and you shouldn't use Steam, or Discord.

You're being pretty vehement about this though, so I might actually do a data freedom request, from their privacy policy:

QuoteHow can I access the personal data you have about me?
If you would like to submit a data access request, you can do so from the “Settings” page of the Services, where there is a button to download your data. We will then start the process and provide you a link to access the personal data that Discord has on you within 30 days.

Could be interesting to see what kind of data they've collated about me.

1. How do you know the data is collected even after I turn the option off? What are you seeing that you base this comment on?

2. It's not baffling, unless you don't understand how they work, maybe. Flatpacks and Snaps run their payload in a sandbox. So if you run Discord in a sandbox, it can't expose your privacy (beyond the login credentials, I suppose). It can't, for example, quiz the process list to see what games I'm playing, even if the logger is allowed to run AND the option to turn it off is ignored. As an aside, it's not a strawman - I wasn't attacking you (the definition of a strawman argument), I was referencing that every single argument against Discord appears to be because it's proprietary. To elaborate, I think that if you put aside the issues you have with the company behind it, you could trust Discord if it was open source, because then you'd have hard evidence that turning off the process logger has no effect. Correct me if I'm wrong. But this way, you could see the source. You could code out unwanted behaviours and compile it yourself to ensure integrity. Hence, all the issues people have with Discord is that they don't trust Discord to do what they ask it to do (e.g. don't record my game activity).

3. My steam profile is public. Hence, my game activity, recorded by discord, has no value to discord. At least in the context of "should I run discord, since it collects my game data"? Is your public address valuable? Not if it's freely available in a phone book it's not. It's only valuable when it's collated against other data sets. In summary, it's certainly of no importance to me. I don't consider "what I play" to be an interesting piece of information that I need to protect. Again, for the avoidance of doubt, if you do, that's cool, and perhaps admirable, and you shouldn't use Steam, or Discord.

1. Part of the collected data is visible in the interface and keeps being updated after you turn off the feature. Too much work to check whether it sends stuff back home, but it was enough for me to restrict discord to a very limited access user account.

2. If that was correct, then snaps couldn't be used to work with your files. Since they can, it must be a bit more complicated. Don't know much about snaps and the likes though.

3. Steam only lists the games you play in steam. Discord records *everything* that runs on your system.

It's perfectly fine for everyone that wants to accept that. I didn't and took measures to prevent it.

1. How do you know the data is collected even after I turn the option off? What are you seeing that you base this comment on?

2. It's not baffling, unless you don't understand how they work, maybe. Flatpacks and Snaps run their payload in a sandbox. So if you run Discord in a sandbox, it can't expose your privacy (beyond the login credentials, I suppose). It can't, for example, quiz the process list to see what games I'm playing, even if the logger is allowed to run AND the option to turn it off is ignored. As an aside, it's not a strawman - I wasn't attacking you (the definition of a strawman argument), I was referencing that every single argument against Discord appears to be because it's proprietary. To elaborate, I think that if you put aside the issues you have with the company behind it, you could trust Discord if it was open source, because then you'd have hard evidence that turning off the process logger has no effect. Correct me if I'm wrong. But this way, you could see the source. You could code out unwanted behaviours and compile it yourself to ensure integrity. Hence, all the issues people have with Discord is that they don't trust Discord to do what they ask it to do (e.g. don't record my game activity).

3. My steam profile is public. Hence, my game activity, recorded by discord, has no value to discord. At least in the context of "should I run discord, since it collects my game data"? Is your public address valuable? Not if it's freely available in a phone book it's not. It's only valuable when it's collated against other data sets. In summary, it's certainly of no importance to me. I don't consider "what I play" to be an interesting piece of information that I need to protect. Again, for the avoidance of doubt, if you do, that's cool, and perhaps admirable, and you shouldn't use Steam, or Discord.

1. Part of the collected data is visible in the interface and keeps being updated after you turn off the feature. Too much work to check whether it sends stuff back home, but it was enough for me to restrict discord to a very limited access user account.

2. If that was correct, then snaps couldn't be used to work with your files. Since they can, it must be a bit more complicated. Don't know much about snaps and the likes though.

3. Steam only lists the games you play in steam. Discord records *everything* that runs on your system.

It's perfectly fine for everyone that wants to accept that. I didn't and took measures to prevent it.

1. Ah, so turning off the "share my game" feature keeps the process running, but just doesn't share the data? Yeah, that's not great, but presumably at the root of devnull's point about Discord wanting to collect the data regardless of whether you want to share it with your friend list. I suspect that if you see this behaviour, it almost certainly is sending the data to Discord - otherwise, why not just end the process logger directly?

2. Not sure about Flatpacks and how they interact with filesystems, but Snaps can only see the directory they're run from, usually ~/snap/<somedir>. More reading here: https://ubuntu.com/blog/a-guide-to-snap-permissions-and-interfaces. So running Discord inside a Snap prevents all system and file access except when you soft/hardmount inside its own directory.

3. Discord collects and sends... everything? How do you know? It definitely looks for "known apps" and that list includes games and OBS. Bit of a stretch to suggest that this is sending all my process info out. Unless there's evidence to suggest otherwise.

I've requested my data via a freedom request. When it appears, I'll share a summary of the results here.

scaine3. Discord collects and sends... everything? How do you know? It definitely looks for "known apps" and that list includes games and OBS. Bit of a stretch to suggest that this is sending all my process info out. Unless there's evidence to suggest otherwise.

It at least has to check everything in order to decide what it is. I don't know what exactly it will store and send. But since 1. didn't fill me with confidence, I decided that my time was better spent preventing collection than attempting to figure out what happens to it.

scaineI've requested my data via a freedom request. When it appears, I'll share a summary of the results here.

Do they have an EU presence? If not, I don't think they have any obligation to provide anything.

scaineYou're being weirdly hostile about this. But to address your arguments in turn:

Hostile? Erm, OK? Guess if you wish to think that sure.

scaine1. How do you know the data is collected even after I turn the option off? What are you seeing that you base this comment on?

You mean besides the fact that it's literally on the same screen as that toggle? You have to be kidding me.

scaine2. It's not baffling, unless you don't understand how they work, maybe. Flatpacks and Snaps run their payload in a sandbox.

Which doesn't address Discord doing it in the first place.

scaineAs an aside, it's not a strawman - I wasn't attacking you (the definition of a strawman argument),

That isn't the definition of a strawman argument but OK?? (seriously where do you get this drivel from).

scaineI was referencing that every single argument against Discord appears to be because it's proprietary. To elaborate, I think that if you put aside the issues you have with the company behind it, you could trust Discord if it was open source, because then you'd have hard evidence that turning off the process logger has no effect. Correct me if I'm wrong. But this way, you could see the source.

I don't know where to even begin with that. At no point did I say anything about the company itself nor it being proprietary. You keep claiming things YOU have found (or haven't), one of those sources is reddit. Not sure what you expected? You literally can view the dev console and see some of it.

scaineYou could code out unwanted behaviours and compile it yourself to ensure integrity. Hence, all the issues people have with Discord is that they don't trust Discord to do what they ask it to do (e.g. don't record my game activity).

I could yes, that was never in dispute. Not sure what your point is?

scaine3. My steam profile is public. Hence, my game activity, recorded by discord, has no value to discord. At least in the context of "should I run discord, since it collects my game data"? Is your public address valuable?
Not if it's freely available in a phone book it's not. It's only valuable when it's collated against other data sets.

What on Earth are you talking about? You do realize selling phonebook data is a massive business, right? Oh hell I give up on this thread.

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