As some of you know our miracle finally arrived on 24 June 2005.......thankfully DH managed 5 weeks off!

I just wandered if I could pick anyones brains.........??

Our darling daughter will not sleep. She does have reflux which obviously does not help but for example

12.00am Feed then put her down at 1.00am (have to hold upright for a while because of reflux)
1.00am - 3.30am sleep in moses
3.30am Feed........won't go down in moses.....coughing sounds then crying
4.30am sleeps on my chest in our bed until 6.00am
7.00am Feed
7.00am - now (6.22pm) awake and crying all day..........no sleep!

This is a fairly typical pattern everyday. I literally can't put her down, even when I am holding her she is kicking and crying etc. I have been to a paediatrician who has her on all the usual reflux things and none seem to be having an effect which makes me wander is that all it is or I am just being crap about having 2-4 hours sleep per day??

I am on my own now as DH can't help midweek as he works long hours and I am absolutely screwed!

Jen.....lovely to see you on here but you have my sympathies. Your low levels of sleep will magnify everything I suspect.

Indira (lovely name) is still very young but maybe try a routine with her? I recommend Gina Ford's. The book is hideously prescriptive but IT WORKS! It took away all my not-knowing-what-to-try-or-do-next-ness. I wonder now if I had mild PND as I cried so much at the beginning and really felt I wasn't coping well. I think it's pretty normal but doesn't help when you don't know what to do to help your baby. I tried the routine at ca. 8weeks and on the first day, I was on the phone at the supposed miracle 2hours up/2hours down trigger time and lo and behold, Maya fell asleep in her Moses basket, on her own, bang on schedule. After that it got much easier. Before we started the routine, she often used to sleep on me in the wee hours as it was the only way (DF at work). I had to sit upright and so your comment about 2-4hrs sleep is v.familiar. Can you ask someone kind to come over for a couple of hours one afternoon or evening whilst you nap or even just take a long bath? it sounds crazy but it really, really helps. Don't do housework before they arrive, just tell them it's not a visit, you need a break. You need all your energy and wits to cope with the new arrival and not sleeping makes everything so much harder.

Have you tried taking her for a stroll in the pram? go on a circular trip until she falls asleep, then head back asap. Leave the pram in the garden with an insect net and take a nap yourself.

I've also read that taking them to a (now this is where I'm crap), either an osteopath or a chiropractor is very helpful. I can't remember which it is. Hopefully someone less crap than me will remember...

Your night time routine looks exactly like mine !!! And although Thomas doesn't cry all day - he is awake for most of it and cries if I try to put him down for a sleep. So I tend to hold him alot of the time and everyone is telling me I'm making a rod for my own back and that I should put him down and let him cry which makes me feel like I'm doing things all wrong.

Meal times are a bit of a nightmare as I'm either eating one-handed or scoffing it down in case Thomas starts crying. As for getting out of the house - only in my dreams !! However, I managed to walk to the local shop and back today which felt like a major achievement - it's the first time I've taken Thomas somewhere on my own ( and he's 7 weeks old tomorrow !! ) so I was really pleased with myself.

So even though I can't offer any advice I just wanted you to know that you're not alone.

Not got much to offer you in the way of solutions but just wanted to let you know that what you are experiencing is, I think, fairly common.

I know a couple of other parents with babies with reflux and they say that their baby never sleeps either. Have you tried elevating the mattress a little? You probably know that already. We shoved a few books under one end of the moses basket stand and that seemed to help our boy's reflux - although he only had it intermittently and mild.

We regulary used to let our baby boy sleep on our chest from about 4am until when we got up. It was the only way that we could all get some sleep.

Kim - He also went through a phase of wanting to be held all the time and would only go to sleep if we were holding him. I think it's just a phrase they go through. Some babies like the closeness. As for making a rod for your own back by doing this, personally I don't believe that's true. Our boy goes off to sleep without being held now. I read somewhere that the closeness is good for their development. Who knows whether that's true or not but it made me feel better about doing it. It's heartbreaking to leave them to cry. We had one of those baby carrier things so I used to carry him in that so that I had my hands free to make myself a sarnie etc.

As usual you are all stars.............nice to know that I am not alone and that it is fairly 'normal'!!

I feel so crap for getting myself in a tizz about it too.........especially after everything we went through to get her...........but I just want to enjoy her and not be struggling all the time.....if that makes sense??

Anyway......another nighmare night......slept 9.00pm-1.00am in bouncer and then awake til 3.00am when I put her on my chest!..............slept until 5.30am on my chest.........threw up 4 times and has been awake/crying ever since!

Does anyone know anything about the PH test things that they do for reflux?

Kim - sorry to hear you are having trouble too hun! All I can say is I sympathise!!

Debra - you are a love!.......have tried the pram thing........works until she gets back home and then she is like a doll.........her eyes pop open the minute she gets back! Swaddling is no good........frustrates her more......she is like Hudini (sp) and escapes in minutes! Hope you are keeping well??

there are lots more but hopefully this will provide a little help. One useful list lept out at me:

* Keep baby upright and quiet for at least thirty minutes after feeding.
* Offer smaller, more frequent feedings.
* Wear your baby in a carrier as long as possible. Carried babies cry less. Babies reflux more while crying.
*Breastfeed. Studies show that GER is less in breastfed babies.
* If you are bottlefeeding (and if recommended by your doctor), thicken baby's feedings with one or two tablespoons of rice cereal to each 8-ounce bottle.
* Discuss with your doctor the safest sleeping position for your baby. Babies with severe reflux sleep best on their stomach and propped up at a 30-degree angle by elevating the head of the crib. (Babies without reflux should be put down to sleep on their backs.)

Hi Jen,
My friend has a baby who is 7 weeks old. He sounds just like Indira. he has reflux and cries all day long. It is her second child. She can't put him down during the day. At night she is putting him in his car seat as he seems to sleep in this. When he is in a deep sleep she puts him on his front in his crib. She found that this was better than if he was on his back. She has also taken him for a cranial massage and his sickness has reduced considerably.
You must be exhausted, so big hugs and hope things ease up soon.
from soph

Hi Jen
Firstly congratulations on the birth of your precious little girl!
I don't post on here much at all now but try and keep up with the posts I see Debra mentioned about a chiropractor. Well I've taken Josh (now nearly 10mths)! since he was about 10 weeks old and I can't speak highly enough of it. We had a very diffficult birth and Josh was very hard to settle in the early weeks so firstly I took him to a cranial osteopath which was good but I didn't really like the guy that did it so then on the advice of a friend I took him to a chiropractor and we've never looked back. He sleeps for a solid 12 hours at night and has done since he was 5 mths before then from about 11 weeks i did a dream feed around 11pm and that took him through to about 6.30am. He is a very content baby and one thing I've noticed that considering he was formula fed he has had one cold when he started teething,as it really helps with babies immunity.
I'm convinced that the tmt he has had has contributed to how he is.
It is something that you need to continue and to start with Josh went twice a week for a month then we dropped to once a fortnight and so on and he now goes every 5 weeks. Its not for everyone but give it a try!!
Whatever you do don't feel that your not a good mum you sound like you are doing a fantastic job and as Debra says grab all the help you can so you can catch up on your sleep.
Take care of yourselves
Dawn (& Josh)
xxx

Poor you. I remember going through the exact scenario (minus the reflux) with Jessica. My husband calls it my "dark period", as I was a nightmare getting no sleep.

I even remember getting on the Internet at night and buying anything that mentioned how to get your baby to sleep...I ended up with 2 books and a swaddling "Miracle Blanket" that didn't work. I ordered those at 3am!

I do remember from 4am on...I'd bring the baby into my bed and let her sleep on me, as it was the only way to get sleep at that hour in the am. Do whatever works for you and your beautiful baby. And know that it gets much easier as they get a bit older. Hang in there and catch naps whenever you get the opportunity.

What actually helped me gain some sanity was having my husband take the baby from 7pn-10 or 11pm and I went to bed and slept which helped me gear up for being up during the evening with her. Seriously, it helped so much.

I have a similar situation with Zach, now just 2 weeks old. He doesn't have colic or reflux as far as I can tell, but he feeds constantly, fights sleep and will only sleep if he is in my arms or if I sleep with him in our bed. Forget about doing anything, like Kim I eat and do everything with one hand, whilst holding Zach with the other. Since he sleeps with us, I've managed to get a couple of hours at night (early AM) of sleep, otherwise I sleep a few hours during the day with Zach of course.

I would love to try the GinaFord schedule,but Zach rfefuses to sleep in his moses basket, or anywhere else for that matter, so impossible for himto sleep alone. PErhaps when he is abit older, though I worry he is nver going to be able to sleep alone at this rate. I feel better knowinng I'm not the only one, and want tobeive it will get better! I honestly don't know what I'm going to do once my hubby goes back to work full time (he teaches at the Uni) as he takes care of me completely otherwise I couldn't eat!!

Well, I do feel for you, Jen. Our situationmight be abit different, but it really helps to know we ar enot alone in struggling a bit with our lovely babies!

Elizabeth, a tip for when DH goes back to work. Before he leaves, get him to make you a yummy sandwich for later on. Doesn't matter when you eat it (with one hand ) at least you'll have something ready. Or, ask him to slice up some salady bits, hard boil + slice an egg, slice some cheese + butter some bread. Clingfilm it and pop it all in the fridge. A friend had her DH do this for her and she said it was the only way to make sure she ate something even vaguely healthy each day. Then her mother came to stay for 3m but that's a whole other story......

I hear what you're saying about the routine but maybe try it and see? 2 weeks is very young but maybe he's not sleeping because he's overtired??? they fight sleep as soon as they're overtired apparently.

I think alot of mothers on here will berate me - but i have been told that white noise works wonders - especially on colicky and reflux babies. i asked a while ago about this, there is a thread on here. it sounded like a lot of mothers had given it a bit of a go. things like putting the hoover on, or putting your babies near the washer when its on. this isn't that helpful as u cannot do that all day. so an extractor fan is wonderful!! Put your baby in the moses basket in the kitchen and turn the extractor fan on.............

Or buy a white noise machine..... best £16 i even spent as Thomas has been a nightmare at getting to sleep. he is starting to get better now as the white noise machine soothes him and cuts out any background noise! we don't need it too much now as I think he has got used to the time he is supposed to sleep (I only had problems at night time........)

let me know how you get on............

Toni x

Trying to conceive for over a yr
First ICSI - Nov 04 - Twins!!!
Thomas and Charlotte born 06/07/05

jen, first of all congradulations, since my little miracle was born
last sept i dont get much time now to log on the
computer.
Our little boy Ben had very bad collic when he was born and i
spent most of the night in the lounge trying to sooth him and he
would eventually go off to sleep about 6.00 in the morning !!!!
i was exhausted, but after so many people told me about
cranial osteopath i took Ben along and it was unbelieveable
on his first visit he just fell asleep on the couch, i took him
for about 3/4 visits and it certainly did the trick and i cannot recomend
it enough.
Hope things are improving. Alison

Joshua has been crying for about 3 weeks and refuses to be put down (to the point where I haven't eaten, drank, gone toilet or taken my meds during the day for the whole 3 weeks because he won't stop screaming.) I have been up with him for 39 hours last week and Monday it was 27 so I am finding it extremely hard.

Joshua was seen by the health visitor yesterday and she said he was very colic(y) and said he was in a lot of pain.

She suggested that I lay him on a towel and remove all his clothing and nappy. Then starting on his right side using baby oil massage using a small circular movement. You have to press quite hard -but baby will let you know if it is hurting!!! then move onto the other side repeating what you did before. You should keep moving around past baby's bits. We spent about 30 minutes doing this. You should also have very soft music and even candles in the background. She also said it is especially good after a bath because it will really relax baby.

After we finished Joshua let out the loudest and longest burp I have ever heard. You could feel it going up his body.

Health visitor also suggested Dr Browns anti colic bottles -we paid £6 each and Colief drops -we paid £9.99 but HV said we should get it on prescription if it works.

Right now Joshua is laying quietly in his cot for the very first time and it is bliss!!! I hate saying that because I love holding him and cuddling him but I need a break. Last night he woke at 6am and John layed him in bed with us and he slept through until 7.30 am (from about 1.30 am.) When he went to bed we had only done the massage.

Don't know if this will help you but I thought I would tell you anyway.