Tuesday, April 1, 2014

A feminist rationale for young motherhood

I couldn’t think of a dignified way to explain to the doctors that my boyfriend of three years had pulled out of the sessions we were about to start.

We had been for all the tests and I had psyched myself up to start injecting myself with a cocktail of hormones. I was just about to go to the pharmacy to pick up the drugs that would kick off our quest for a baby when my boyfriend, a successful broker, phoned me.

His voice was emotionless as he told me he didn’t want to go through with it. “It’s all too much,” he told me. “Maybe next year…”

Maybe next year? The sad truth was I didn’t have many years left. I was 37 and increasingly desperate to start a family. But despite my ticking clock, I had heard those three words many times before, from him and a previous partner to whom I had been engaged several years earlier.

Indeed, the truth is that I have experienced nothing but trouble whenever I have attempted to persuade a man to have children with me.

To suggest, as some experts do, that somehow the age at which women conceive is within their control, is naive and misleading.

There are still some stubborn taboos about conception, and one of them involves the myth that deciding to have children is something women and men do together in an open and honest manner.

For some lucky couples it may be like that. But that is not my experience, nor the experience of many of my girlfriends.

I’m sorry if I offend any male readers by suggesting that they do not always play fair in matters of fertility. But in my experience men increasingly behave with terrible selfishness when it comes to giving up their bachelor lifestyles.

Yes, perhaps women should try to have babies early — but not because that is the best time to have children, but because it might be the only time to have them. For if, like me, you have spent your thirties being involved with a series of men who enjoy their freedom, you will know it is simply a statement of fact that today’s young males really aren’t keen to become fathers.

She is still blaming men for her own failure to start trying to have children sooner, of course, but at least she is telling young women to learn from the consequences of her mistakes. It probably hasn't occurred to most women who are putting off child-bearing until the deadline to realize that if men do the exact same thing, they will be waiting until they are in their fifties or sixties to have children.

Why should men not spend their 30s and 40s having fun, after all. They have plenty of time in which they can still have children, right?

45 comments:

Indeed. Men often enter their 20s expecting to find a girl, marry her, and start a family. In reality what they find are career girls and sluts. It comes as a shock. But if they wise up, life only gets better.

Girls, on the other hand, expect to establish a career, further their education, and ride the carousel before settling down. When that time comes, however, they find the men are more interested in partying and banging younger chicks.

For if, like me, you have spent your thirties being involved with a series of men who enjoy their freedom, you will know it is simply a statement of fact that today’s young males really aren't keen to become fathers.

No. We are keen on becoming fathers. Just not with a carousel rider like you! Offer loyalty early on (and withhold sex until there's mutual loyalty). Kids will come much faster (and so will a lasting relationship) if you follow that advice.

But of course that means you don't get to sample your options first, being involved with a series of men who enjoy their freedom.

Honestly, why would a man would ever want to settle down with a woman who has been involved with a series of men?

Yep. Odds are, the reason she's trying to have her first kid at 37 instead of watching her oldest graduate from high school, is that she spent her 20s "behav[ing] with terrible selfishness when it [came] to giving up [her] bachelor[ette] lifestyle." And now at 35 or so, guys she snubbed when she was young and hot are suddenly supposed to get excited about going to the fertility doctor with her?

Girls are at their most fertile and most desirable to men between 16 and about 24. I suspect that some male that this women knew in those years would have married the virginal version her, and made a life including children with her. SHE DIDN"T WANT THAT!

Too bad, so sad. She is the one who self selected herself as unfit for motherhood.

We do. I am... considering a woman for children, now. She is, roughly, half my age. If my reasons weren't quite the same as others.

What this woman says is hilarious. She seems to be a feminist, and thinks she was in control of her life, and yet let men make one of the most important decisions in her life. The truth is, she went along with it because, well, it was fun. And, she chose men who are notoriously non-committal. She enjoyed the benefits and is now crying over the milk she spilled. I can't have even an ounce of sympathy. She'll just become, another, bitter old cat lady. She is far too late. She's a toy, and almost too old to be played with anymore even as such.

Why should men not spend their 30s and 40s having fun, after all. They have plenty of time in which they can still have children, right?

Because dealing with a teenager in your late 60's would suck. As would having to depend on a late 20/30 something in your declining state.

Then again having kids in your early 20's also kind of sucks because if you do live into your 90's you will be relying on a 70 year old to take care of you, and you also run the risk of outliving your kids. I think the 25-32 age range is ideal for modern living and advanced medical concerns. Then again that is based on tech now. Who knows what they are going to do for us in the future. Either have that anti-aging drug perfected or they will just euthanize us without a second thought. Could go either way.

Why is she shocked by this? The only men left at her age are ones who never wanted to have a family to begin with. When a man wants a family, he usually starts in his mid to late twenties, which means he goes and gets married around that time. He doesn't wait until he's 40 because he knows that when his kids graduate and have children of their own, he'll probably be dead.

Recently, a girlfriend in her twenties told me she was feeling broody, but felt it was too early to ask her new husband to have kids. I wanted to yell: “Then don’t ask him.”

And your boyfriend left such a wonder catch? Hard to imagine. Cuz, you aint selfish at all or anything.

Feeling all that resentment surge back, I felt a shameful urge to tell her to secretly stop taking the Pill. But I restrained myself and said: “Don’t assume he’s going to want them more as the years go on.”

Good ol wimminz...I'm happy because I SAY I AM HAPPY!!! Make sure you point out what you perceive as a fraud perpetrated by men right before you suggest (twice) committing a huge fraud against HIM. Ought to fix all the problems.

She may be telling young(er) women something factual and important, but in the message she is delivering the canonical Female take - men are to blame.

She picked the men. And the men she picked are to blame. She (most likely) never delivered an early ultimatum ("preggers or I'm out of here, now!"). And the men are to blame. She spent years with an men (... wait for it, who do *NOT* want to have children with HER) and men are to blame. And here's the kicker: the guy of the last 3 years? Not her husband. Her boyfriend. She couldn't even get this guy to marry her. And men are to blame.

Fuck that. Have your kids when you're young. I do not want to finally be able to afford my dream car and then having to fight my teenaged kid for the keys to it. By having your kids when you're young you can still keep up with them. Parenting is a younger man's game, not one for older gents.

Feminists are the women most adamant that its just fine for women to end their marriages after vows and years and children and a family ripped apart, yet somehow think men who walk out before vows and children are out if line.

Women have made marriage a celibacy shitburger with payments for life, and have made bachelorhood a cheap or free sex smorgasbord. Then they are shocked that men prefer cheap fine cuisine to expensive scraps.

That's an important point. It's not unusual to see an attractive woman hit 35 or so (and if she's attractive at 35, she was probably very nice at 18), and be completely perplexed that no man has ever tried to talk her into marriage. She's been going through life making friends with guys, putting out for some and playing hard-to-get with others, waiting for it to "just happen" and it never did.

But women like that are very good at choosing the guys who won't push for marriage and keeping those who will at a distance. They can smell marriage interest on a man like dead fish, and any guy who reeks of it gets friend-zoned or outright rejected long before he can reach the point of proposing. So magically, her prince never came, and she's left to conclude that men these days are all little boys who fear commitment.

"having kids in your early 20's also kind of sucks because if you do live into your 90's you will be relying on a 70 year old to take care of you, and you also run the risk of outliving your kids. I think the 25-32 age range is ideal for modern living and advanced medical concerns."

"Have your kids when you're young. I do not want to finally be able to afford my dream car and then having to fight my teenaged kid for the keys to it. By having your kids when you're young you can still keep up with them. Parenting is a younger man's game, not one for older gents."

Naw. Just realize there's basically nothing better in this world than bringing up a passel of young men and women that carry your name... start young and just keep on going right on through. Homeschool, support your wife staying at home... then reap the benefit of being the Patriarch of a large clan of kids, grandkids and great-grandkids.

I don't see it above, but a couple of the big causes of infertility are induced abortion and STDs. I don't know the statistics in South Africa, but I'm guessing a girl who makes it to 38 years old without marrying will tend to be in the pool of women who have suffered one or both of these.

Plus, she's 38, has presumably been acting selfishly since she was a schoolgirl, most likely in the company of men who are selfish, and now she's wondering why she is in the company of a selfish man. This'll be a tough one to suss out, I think....or not.

Naw. Just realize there's basically nothing better in this world than bringing up a passel of young men and women that carry your name... start young and just keep on going right on through. Homeschool, support your wife staying at home... then reap the benefit of being the Patriarch of a large clan of kids, grandkids and great-grandkids.Are you Phil Robertson?

There's some selection bias going on here. The guys who really wanted children are already going to have children.

I don't like the characterization of people (men or women) as being selfish for not wanting kids. Selfish is when you don't call your aging parents, or when you eat food at the office potluck without bringing anything. Refusing to do something that a woman wants you to do doesn't make you selfish.

Not correct. The men who really want children will get young fertile women to carry their children, the gormless herblings who she despises will be ignored despite their desire for children,

For example, her current man will probably decide to have children someday ... with someone else. She will continue in her delusion of her own value, because her pride will not accept the weaklings currently willing to take her. As a result she will be faced with a stark choice. Use the sperm bank or get a few cats.

I am betting on the sperm bank. Unless she hasn't got the money. Then it's cats.

I suspect that the guy, as well as her previous men, came to the realization at the last moment that the only thing she brought to the relationship table was a womb. Sounds to me like they had very fortunate escapes. No reflection on her specifically: that is pretty much the only thing that most modern women bring to the table.

I am a bit of an older guy now, but 15 years ago I tried to suggest to a very comely lass that I was a great catch(divorced, wise, lots of money and older kids). She had this idea that guys her age would put up with her crap, they would not. I knew how to tame this baby cougar, so anyways, the guys she went with all of them gave children to other women, while they were dating her. She wanted kids, but not in her late 20's. So here we are today, I have even more of the things that make life very tolerable for a 50 year old guy, and she is a single childless, somewhat larger gal, with no prospects. But on the whole, avoiding her was the best thing that could have happened to me, and now with the advent of male chatter about the internet, I can see now how young men are fully informed of these kinds of gals, and how to avoid marrying them, but still having a little fun. Ladies, listen up, but really, you dont stand a chance anymore.

That's true, but you're a minority, and a much smaller minority than women think, which is the main point.

Some men also like 300-pound women. But if a woman's fiance says he'll love her forever no matter how she looks, she shouldn't assume that will be true and start packing on the pounds. Also, a 20-year-old man (or woman) who says he doesn't ever want kids -- especially if saying so seems like the best way not to interfere with the regular sex he's getting -- probably doesn't really know what he's going to want someday. He's probably going to want kids.

"But in my experience men increasingly behave with terrible selfishness when it comes to giving up their bachelor lifestyles."

Might that have something to do with the fact that 5% is the new 50% if you happen to be a man? Please pass my book out so that young me can read original court documents to see what REALLY happens in the family courts.

That woman should stop wasting time and quickly get a sperm donor. There is no time to waste. She isn't in a marriage so there is no obligation to be in the deadend relationship. Show him the door. Tell him she will proceed with the IVF and she will seek a sperm donor. He can stay around if he wants. He will move on without hesitation.

It is nice for her to turn the tables around. She waited until too late and she blamed the men. Time is never on the women's side. Men have all the time in the world. They usually outlast women in fertility.

At her age, her best bet would be a much older guy, probably mid to late fifties, at the youngest. The desirable men her age are out pursuing women who are 10-15 years younger than she is.

Young women enjoy a HUGE bounty of attention from men of all ages, which, in the market sense, comes at the expense of older women. But when those young women grow old, and are on the losing end of this trend, then suddenly it becomes an evil in need of correction. Meanwhile, no hot young woman sheds tears for her older sisters who are overlooked in favor of her.

If women want families and marriage, they need to stop playing around in their 20s, which means, quite plainly that they stop playing around. It's not just the have-fun-do-what-I-wanna-do attitude. Stop having sex with men until you're married. No self-serving man is going to start a family with or marry a woman after dating three years if she's been giving it up to him this whole time, no strings attached (except maybe the occasional nice date). All of that, from the man's perspective, is just cheap sex and possibly some easy companionship.

As long as the man can reasonably expect to attract other (younger) women who will put out, he has no motivation whatsoever to settle into a family. This woman is now nearing the end of her reproductive cycle, having achieved nothing in that area, and she's panicking. Does the woman, now 55, who was suffering in her same position 15 years ago have much pity? I doubt it. This woman was the bimbo then who was making it harder for her.

If women everywhere in America, Europe, Japan, and elsewhere started declining sex until marriage, marriage rates and fertility rates alike would probably skyrocket. The average age of marriage would drop down to between 22 and 24. Whatever women's sexual desires before marriage may be, their collective, long-term strategy is best figured around collectively deferring sex until after marriage so as to snag as many of the eligible males as possible. Does this mean a lot of slut shaming? Yep. Does it mean turning on the sisterhood and publicly trashing women who don't uphold the code? For sure. But women aren't going to get those families while they are still fertile if they are handing out the sex before they obtain firm commitment.

It's just barely possible that she recognizes that children need a father present in their lives. Not likely today, I know, but possible.

Did you miss the feminist part? Any thought that a kid might need a father is going to immediately shatter against the mental fish-bicycle wall. From her perspective men exist only to make her comfortable and pay for things.

The stronger and more independent a woman insists she is the more likely she is to blame men for her problems, expect men to fix their problems, demand men be legally forced to behave in a manner beneficial to her, and be more likely to use the phrase "man up".

That's true, but you're a minority, and a much smaller minority than women think, which is the main point.

For the woman who wrote the article, we're a larger minority than she thought. She thought her boyfriend wanted kids, but he didn't.

I don't think there are all that many cases where a man in his early 20's doesn't want kids but changes his mind later. Usually he wants them someday, but not yet, and he knows that from the start.

a 20-year-old man (or woman) who says he doesn't ever want kids -- especially if saying so seems like the best way not to interfere with the regular sex he's getting

I seriously doubt that's ever the best way to keep the sex coming. Just the opposite, if anything; if she wants kids, either now or ten years from now, she's less likely to waste her time on a guy who says he never wants them. Between the Pill and abortion, she has full veto power over her fertility, so if she doesn't want kids she has no reason to care what his preferences are.