Q. Are you aware the Government is keeping a watch on SIMI?A. Yes, we are. But it is expected of this Government, isn't it?

Q. Aline on your calendar says that "Jehad is our Path". Can you elaborate?A. Let me explain the concept of jehad as detailed in the Quran. It is not when an individual is harmed but when an entire community finds itself collectively persecuted that the cry for jehadis given. There are various stages. You raise your voice. Protest democratically. Warn. If nothing works then one is forced to revolt, take to arms.

Q. So what stage of jehad do you find yourself at?A. When the Muslim voice is muffled, when we are fired upon and killed, like at Kanpur, when you find the Sangh Parivar making statements that the mandir will be built by March 2002 at Ayodhya, then I can say Muslims will not take it lying down. And I am not too sure of the consequences.

Q. But the Government is not being run by the RSS.A. Of course it is. Atal Bihari Vajpayee's statement that "I am a swayam-sevak" has left no doubt in the minds of the Muslims. At times he seems to be shedding tears for the Babri episode but they are only crocodile tears.

Q. SIMI is known to launch vitriolic attacks against Indian leaders. Why? A. We Muslims, and not just SIMI, do not recognise leaders as ideals. There is only one true Lord, one true Ideal.

Q. Can you elaborate?A. When we are told that there is a rashtrapita in Gandhi, and another great statesman in Nehru, we feel it is a direct attack on our fundamentals. Nehru wanted Muslims to recognise Ghulam Ahmed Qadaini as our Prophet. He was forcing us to alter our religious belief and we have no regard forsuch a man. Also, Gandhi is not our greatest ideal by any stretch of the imagination. Nor is Indira Gandhi.

Q. So what is your agenda. Is it to Islamise India?A. Look, we have respect for the practitioners of other religions. As true Muslims, we always will. But at the same time our aim is to propagate the Quran's tenets. This will be done even among non-Muslims but there will be no coercion. It's not like you want everybody to sing Vande Mataram.

Q. You seem bitter at being Indian.A. Yes. Very bitter. Even in Jerusalem where the atrocities on Muslims have been like in no other part of the world, the main mosque, Masjid-e-Aksa, is still intact. At Ayodhya, sadly, it isn't. They use rubber bullets to keep protesters at bay in Israel, here they kill Muslims, like in Kanpur.

Q. In your conferences you have openly eulogised Osama bin Laden.A. Not once, but dozens of times. We believe that he has shown great character in standing up to the Ameri-cans, the biggest terrorists in the world. The US made allegations that he was behind the embassy bombings in Nairobi and Dares-Salaam, but we know that Osama had no hand in them.

Q. But he does support the ISI's terrorist activities in India.A. Incorrect. The ISI is different. Osama has no links with the ISI. His enemy No. 1 is not India, but the US.

Q. At SIMI meetings speeches of Qazi Hussain, the Jamait-e-Islami chief in Pakistan, are played. Why?A. We link up with him in Pakistan through phones and the speeches are amplified for the audience. The Qazi wants us to take Islam to non-Muslims.

Q. Is SIMI's presence in the north stronger than in the south?A. We are everywhere, as strong in Kerala and Maharashtra as we are in Delhi and Uttar Pradesh. Even Assam.

Q. Where do you see your agenda taking you?A. We are not interested in focusing on leaves and branches. We are interested in changing things at the roots. In the world's largest democracy there must be open ideological discussions and not just false propaganda. Our madarsas are not nurseries of terror.

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