To my knowledge, they're different companies owned by different people, PPF is owned by an artisan named Frances, and HTGAM is owned by Douglas Smythe. You can actually read an interview made by Douglas Smythe to Frances and Hodges here.
Oh, and the correct name is Petal Pusher Fancies, not Francis.

Mods, would you please move this thread to the General Discussion? I see no mention of any particular pre or aftershave product in the OPs post.

(10-08-2014, 04:22 AM)TheMonk Wrote: Was there an actual question there...?

To my knowledge, they're different companies owned by different people, PPF is owned by an artisan named Frances, and HTGAM is owned by Douglas Smythe. You can actually read an interview made by Douglas Smythe to Frances and Hodges here.
Oh, and the correct name is Petal Pusher Fancies, not Francis.

Mods, would you please move this thread to the General Discussion? I see no mention of any particular pre or aftershave product in the OPs post.

(10-08-2014, 03:01 AM)kurtis Wrote: Are Petal Pusher Fancies and HTGAM the same company.

Petal Pusher Fancies and htgam joined forces back in March. This was no secret and it was announced. Still they are separate artisans and decided to "circle the wagons" sort to speak, for splitting group buys on bulk materials, etc. HTGAM is interested in joining forces with other artisans as well in this manner and you will see that happening in the future. It's a good model for all involved. Keeps costs down, and gives struggling new artisans a better foothold in the WSW. Hope this clears things up!

This question deserves a few new answers.
There is a thread in facebook newsgroup "The Big Shave" where it is shown that Mr Smythe is identical to Apellido Hodges to Douglas to you name it.
Just look for " who is Erik Hodges?"
This fine gentleman used several identities to interview himself for his blogs and sites to push his own product.
Unfortunately this moron used the same speckled cap & sunglasses so it was too obvious.
Just read it over there and decide if you still want to buy this stuff.
That is what Erik Lyon, member of tbs, sent me.

My thoughts on today’s events. First, this will seem creepy, but it was personal for me. Anyone that knows me knows that I have been friends with Douglas for over a year on here. I have shared several thousand PMs on all ranges or shaving and non-shave related things. This issue today has been something I have sat on for quite some time not knowing how to react. I only post this because I feel really weird having talked to someone in depth this long and supported his work and defended him to learn it was all a lie. Here is what I have found.

Several months ago I heard rumors about Douglas and Hodges from PPF being the same person. I decided to ask Douglas, to which he denied it. He said it was a “love triangle” and that he has stolen Frances from Hodges when he moved to AZ. I took him at his word and joked around about it. Then I continued to hear rumors for several days and took a look for myself.

I first when to Hodges apellido, co founder of PPF with Frances, profile on facebook and found over 400+ photos and videos of Douglas dating back to 2008. The profile was very similar to “Douglas’”, attended Dartmouth, lived in costa rica, several references to punk rock. Things like starting a marketing company in CR (which we had discussed previously). I realized quickly that his last name was Spanish for last name. So I looked at his friends list for common names. There were several Hodges so I dove in. I found three family member, photos together, and posts dating back to 2008 as well. Hodges first name was clearly the same as mine….Erik. He once told me he was ordained to preform marriages, and there was a certificate for Erik Hodges posted to her wall.

At this point I went back to “Douglas” and asked again. He is still my friend and I wanted a straight answer. I was told it wasn’t true, that he has models for Hodge who is shy and he was regretting that too. I asked how he had 400 photos and videos and many over a year plus in costa rica. He said there was an annual moustache and beard convention there, so it was convenient. Desperate for the truth I even mentioned the family members by name and asked if he were Erik Hodges, he continued to deny it. He said it was a mistake to have taken the photos and he needed Hodges to removed them. He said it was hard because they weren’t talking since he took Frances to AZ with him. Douglas logged off. As I started screen shooting the page the name changed to HBeat Lee, all the photo began to disappear, and all mutual friends were gone except Aaron Schector from The wet shave review.

Douglas logs back on and I asked him how that happened. He said that frances had called Hodges in that 2-4 min period. At this point I had enough and moved on not bring it back up. I found the quotes posted before and other holes in the story that are repeated over and over again. I discussed it further with people and decided I wouldn’t say anything but I would be careful around it and stop defending “Douglas”. This was more a product of my shock in being lied to that the lie itself.

I considered motive for a while. It really didn’t make sense to me. The best I can come up with (others have bolder claims but I won’t share those till there is proof) is Frances and Erik Hodges started PPF. Erik went by Hodges, like his friends called him, and created a pen name. After some time he wanted to create more reviews and has interest in blogging and created HTGAM. He needed to be separate from PPF so created “Douglas”. His site quickly expanded to 100,000 visiters a month as moustaches came to fashion and could not ignore that potential. He created HTGAM. HTGAM quickly grow and he just talked about how great PPF was but Doug was the face guy. Eventually it got sloppy and he killed off Hodges by making up the love triangle. Now he could have both soaps in one house and work together without the fear of being caught.

Now all of this is marketing and I am used to that, a marketing guy myself. But two things really bothered me. First was being lied to for over a year. Clearly we have connection to our vendors and favorite. We defend them and buy all their newest products. May call them brothers. I was really bother to have shared literal thousands (around 10k) messages with a guy that I learned wasn’t ever real and have been lying to me the whole time, even when I asked him directly. That to me was not very brotherly. I have seen serveral quote people say are from “Douglas” that talk about trying to make as much money as he can as fast as he can and how sheepish people can be. I finally believed these quotes.

The other thing I took issue with is how he was intimidating and painting some other people in the industry as crazy for saying this and saying if they went public he would run a campaign against them. Again, no the action of the guy I thought I knew and not very brotherly.

I am assuming I will be roasted for this and that people will call me a crazy staucker, but it was important to me after all of this to really know what was what and who is who. If you don’t like it, people feel free to continue buy from Doug. If you find it as upsetting as me, people choose to vote with your wallet and not burn the witch at the stake. I know I have made up my mind and I hope you all understand where I am coming from.

I find it interesting that people choose to not attend to serious allegations, that question the very credibility of a business and its owner(s).
True it's 'just shaving soap', however deceptive marketing practices, shilling, and outright lying are not what constitute favorable and respectable qualities of an Artisan business in my mind .. especially in this small community of wet shavers. It's a disservice to all the other hardworking and honest Artisans who are truly passionate about their businesses, and toil away to make people's daily lives better, albeit with 'just shaving soap'.

Completely agree with Ravi's response here. Good product speaks for itself and doesn't need smoke & mirrors. It's actually sad because all of the crazy stuff wasn't even necessary to be a success. I've read a few people saying "What do we expect in business?"... personally, I expect more.

Douglas Smythe was banned from TSN last year for multiple rule violations. He subsequently registered here under different names, in an effort to shill, and was banned again.
Most recently, this was done after he posted in this very thread, using the name Casi Perfecto ... in a post now made visible for members to see .. post #4

(10-30-2014, 09:37 AM)apogee Wrote: This question deserves a few new answers.
There is a thread in facebook newsgroup "The Big Shave" where it is shown that Mr Smythe is identical to Apellido Hodges to Douglas to you name it.
Just look for " who is Erik Hodges?"
This fine gentleman used several identities to interview himself for his blogs and sites to push his own product.
Unfortunately this moron used the same speckled cap & sunglasses so it was too obvious.
Just read it over there and decide if you still want to buy this stuff.
That is what Erik Lyon, member of tbs, sent me.

My thoughts on today’s events. First, this will seem creepy, but it was personal for me. Anyone that knows me knows that I have been friends with Douglas for over a year on here. I have shared several thousand PMs on all ranges or shaving and non-shave related things. This issue today has been something I have sat on for quite some time not knowing how to react. I only post this because I feel really weird having talked to someone in depth this long and supported his work and defended him to learn it was all a lie. Here is what I have found.

Several months ago I heard rumors about Douglas and Hodges from PPF being the same person. I decided to ask Douglas, to which he denied it. He said it was a “love triangle” and that he has stolen Frances from Hodges when he moved to AZ. I took him at his word and joked around about it. Then I continued to hear rumors for several days and took a look for myself.

I first when to Hodges apellido, co founder of PPF with Frances, profile on facebook and found over 400+ photos and videos of Douglas dating back to 2008. The profile was very similar to “Douglas’”, attended Dartmouth, lived in costa rica, several references to punk rock. Things like starting a marketing company in CR (which we had discussed previously). I realized quickly that his last name was Spanish for last name. So I looked at his friends list for common names. There were several Hodges so I dove in. I found three family member, photos together, and posts dating back to 2008 as well. Hodges first name was clearly the same as mine….Erik. He once told me he was ordained to preform marriages, and there was a certificate for Erik Hodges posted to her wall.

At this point I went back to “Douglas” and asked again. He is still my friend and I wanted a straight answer. I was told it wasn’t true, that he has models for Hodge who is shy and he was regretting that too. I asked how he had 400 photos and videos and many over a year plus in costa rica. He said there was an annual moustache and beard convention there, so it was convenient. Desperate for the truth I even mentioned the family members by name and asked if he were Erik Hodges, he continued to deny it. He said it was a mistake to have taken the photos and he needed Hodges to removed them. He said it was hard because they weren’t talking since he took Frances to AZ with him. Douglas logged off. As I started screen shooting the page the name changed to HBeat Lee, all the photo began to disappear, and all mutual friends were gone except Aaron Schector from The wet shave review.

Douglas logs back on and I asked him how that happened. He said that frances had called Hodges in that 2-4 min period. At this point I had enough and moved on not bring it back up. I found the quotes posted before and other holes in the story that are repeated over and over again. I discussed it further with people and decided I wouldn’t say anything but I would be careful around it and stop defending “Douglas”. This was more a product of my shock in being lied to that the lie itself.

I considered motive for a while. It really didn’t make sense to me. The best I can come up with (others have bolder claims but I won’t share those till there is proof) is Frances and Erik Hodges started PPF. Erik went by Hodges, like his friends called him, and created a pen name. After some time he wanted to create more reviews and has interest in blogging and created HTGAM. He needed to be separate from PPF so created “Douglas”. His site quickly expanded to 100,000 visiters a month as moustaches came to fashion and could not ignore that potential. He created HTGAM. HTGAM quickly grow and he just talked about how great PPF was but Doug was the face guy. Eventually it got sloppy and he killed off Hodges by making up the love triangle. Now he could have both soaps in one house and work together without the fear of being caught.

Now all of this is marketing and I am used to that, a marketing guy myself. But two things really bothered me. First was being lied to for over a year. Clearly we have connection to our vendors and favorite. We defend them and buy all their newest products. May call them brothers. I was really bother to have shared literal thousands (around 10k) messages with a guy that I learned wasn’t ever real and have been lying to me the whole time, even when I asked him directly. That to me was not very brotherly. I have seen serveral quote people say are from “Douglas” that talk about trying to make as much money as he can as fast as he can and how sheepish people can be. I finally believed these quotes.

The other thing I took issue with is how he was intimidating and painting some other people in the industry as crazy for saying this and saying if they went public he would run a campaign against them. Again, no the action of the guy I thought I knew and not very brotherly.

I am assuming I will be roasted for this and that people will call me a crazy staucker, but it was important to me after all of this to really know what was what and who is who. If you don’t like it, people feel free to continue buy from Doug. If you find it as upsetting as me, people choose to vote with your wallet and not burn the witch at the stake. I know I have made up my mind and I hope you all understand where I am coming from.