Are we finished?

I am a work in progress. I reflect on the past, predict the future, and live in the present moment. Nearly everything I do is a work in progress. Some things just make more progress than others!

Over the past few years I have been preparing resources for my readilearn website. It’s slow going, slower than I expected, but I’m getting … somewhere. Even when the website launches it will be a work in progress as I update old and add new resources.

In a flurry of activity, with the intention of completing additional resources as development of the website nears completion, I experimented with making a product promotional video. My intention is to make a number of these, possibly explaining the use of each interactive resource. Doing so is far more time consuming that I had expected.

Below is my first attempt. But please don’t let that word “first” mislead you into mistakenly thinking it was my only attempt. I lost count of the number of takes and couldn’t believe how difficult it was to utter just a few short sentences. While I am sharing it, please consider it a work in progress. Making promotional videos for my products is something I need much more practice with.

My purpose in sharing the video is to illustrate the importance of being a lifelong learner, which involves a combination of persistence, resilience and confidence, including:

a willingness to make mistakes and repeated attempts

a growth mindset without an expectation of immediate success

confidence to say “I haven’t got it yet, but I’m working on it”

belief in the ability to succeed, either independently or with support

an ability to adjust future attempts according to feedback provided from the past.

I learned a lot in making this video, perhaps more about what doesn’t work than what does. But eliminating what doesn’t work is crucial in finding out what does. For example, I learned after repeated attempts on both, that selfie videos recorded with phone or iPad just weren’t going to be good enough. I learned that neither of the software programs for making videos I owned would allow me to achieve what I wanted on its own. I needed to combine recordings from each. After many trials I finally made something that at least has the semblance of an attempt.

Included in my passion for learning is a passion for learning about learning: how we learn, why we learn and the conditions that contribute to our learning. I am fascinated by learning that occurs at all ages, but particularly during early childhood.

In the process of repeated attempts described above, I responded constantly to feedbackprovided, and adjusted each new attempt accordingly. Feedback is necessary for learning. But perhaps more important than the feedback is the response to it.

Hopeful of getting some other feedback, I shared the video with my family on the weekend. They made some helpful suggestions. But perhaps the most interesting feedback, about feedback, was that given by my four-year-old granddaughter, G2.

G2 watched the video with her mother and immediately wanted to play the game. I was delighted, of course, and opened the resource on the iPad for her to use. She had no trouble manipulating the objects to make the ice creams and quickly made a few combinations. When I asked if a mango with strawberry on the top was the same as, or different from, a strawberry with mango on the top, she confidently explained that they were different because “this one’s got the strawberry on the top and this one’s got the mango on the top”. She went on making combinations.

After she’d made about ten combinations she asked, “Are we finished yet?” I said, “We can finish whenever you like.” I wasn’t using it as a “teaching episode”, simply as something fun for her to do. She asked again, “But are we finished? You know –“ and she indicated for something to happen on the screen showing that we had finished.

Suddenly I realised that she was wanting feedback from the program to tell her that she was finished, that she was successful; perhaps some bells, whistles or fireworks. Because I designed the resource as an open-ended teaching episode, for use by a teacher with a class rather than by individual children, the resource does not have any inbuilt feedback. The feedback occurs in the discussion between teacher and students.

What I intended as a teaching episode became, for me, a learning episode; thinking and learning about feedback.

G2 expected to receive feedback about completion, and

she wished to continue until she received that feedback.

However,

she doesn’t’ require feedback about completion from all apps, for example, drawing programs: she decides when she is finished, and

during play she decides which activity she will take up and when she will finish.

G2 has a good balance of activities with home and Kindy; indoor and outdoor with a variety self-selected and self-directed imaginative play mixed with cooperative activities including reading, board games and screen time with a variety of apps.

With such variety she receives feedback from many sources including self and others, as well as from manipulation with real and electronic objects. I think her question “Are we finished yet?” was related to use of the specific device and type of activity (game to her), not indicative of a generalised need for feedback from outside.

But what of children who are more engaged with electronic games, have less time for self-directed activity, and fewer opportunities to engage with others? Will the need for feedback from an outside source overtake the ability to provide feedback for self?I hope not. I believe the abilities to self-monitor, self-regulate and self-determineto be extremely important to life-long learning. What do you think?

Thank you for reading. I appreciate your feedback. It is important to me! Please share your thoughts about any aspect of this post.

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36 thoughts on “Are we finished?”

Oh Norah. Do you have any idea how many times I’ve tried (and failed) to get over to your blog and catch up with you? No, of course you don’t…but I do, and it’s been too many, ha! I’ve bookmarked each post that I’ve missed and it’s so weird that every time I’ve gone on your site, I’ve had to put it down again for one reason or another. I’ve gone to comment here alone about three times! Anyway, enough of all that…I am determined today to catch up with you, and firstly, I am thrilled to ‘see’ you and hear your voice…I feel I know you even better now! What a lovely person you are…but I already knew that 😉 I’m so glad that your website and interactive learning programmes are coming together, despite some challenges slowing things down a little, which I suppose are inevitable. I love the way G2 showed you in her natural way about gaining feedback at the end, and I also love the question you raise at the end. I worry terribly about the reliance children today have on all these games that provide instant feedback and gratification. Your G2 has a most wonderful balance of education and learning and fun in her life. If only all children had the same. But your learning resources will go an awfully long way to helping redress that balance in many youngster’s lives, I’m sure of it Norah 🙂

Thank you so much for popping over, reading and commenting, Sherri. I appreciate all my visitors and comments. We are all busy people. We all have other commitments and demands on our time. We do what we can, when we can, and understand the same of others.
I appreciate your supportive comments about my video and learning resources. I have been working on one this week that I’m hoping to get finished in time for teachers to use in the lead-up to Easter. The launch of my website should be getting closer. Hopefully not too far away now. I wish they would stop making promises that they can’t keep. They only add to my disappointment.
G1 and G2 are very fortunate to have loving, supportive parents who provide them with a rich learning environment. Hopefully that will compensate for whatever they are dished up in school. 🙂

Great post. Every day, is a steep learning curve for me. I just have to throw in what happened yesterday here as an example and a laugh. I had to pick my daughter up from school early to take her to her doctor’s appointment. As you know, we are new to the school so no one really knows us and we don’t know them. They’re procedure for these pick ups is for the child to meet the parent at the office. Well, this got problematic as my daughter ended up out in the playground instead and had to be found. However, the teachers found girl with almost the identical name and sent her to the office instead. So she goes and gets her back and prepares to leave for the day. She arrived at the office looking lost an bewildered but fortunately had her name embroidered on her hat and I knew what had happened straight away. Meanwhile, my daughter had left her bag in the classroom as well and we needed to find her teacher to unlock it. It was lucky that I’d built in some “padding”.
See, I’m learning!
Just as well I read the comments, because I somehow glossed over the video the first time. I liked it but I agreed with Geoff about the dark background. I think I’d like some feedback and sound effects built into it. I guess my self-confidence isn’t the best and I guess I’d want to know I was doing the right thing.
Providing positive feedback is an interesting thing. Some people really need it to counter-act self doubts and low self-esteem. A sense am I doing this right and probably erring towards thinking they’ve got it wrong. I think with computer games, you are used to sound effects so when there’s silence it could be a bit unsettling. However, as you said, it’s designed for a classroom situation. I guess my only thoughts there is students working at different paces potentially so some kind of feedback would be good.
I just thought of this but would you have each child responding on their device to the questions? Classrooms are starting to move more towards bring your own device. Both my kids do.
On that note, I think my brain has run out of steam so I’ll head off to bed.
Hope you’ve had a great week and I must check ut next week’s flash topic.
xx Rowena

Thanks for your lovely comment and for sharing your learning experience, picking your daughter up from school. I must admit that, when I was teaching, I would recommend parents pick children up from the classroom, not during a break as it is so difficult to find them in the playground. Your experience confirms that theory. Just as well you added enough padding or it could have been the cause for some anxiety.
Thanks for your comment re the video and the activity described. I don’t intend to add any feedback or sound effects at this stage as it is designed as a lesson for a teacher to share with a class. The learning and feedback comes from the discussion. It is not meant for individual use on an iPad. If feedback from teachers in classrooms tells me otherwise I will consider it, but the power of the tool is in the discussion, not in the individual use. I do appreciate your feedback though and have stored it away for mulling over for a while.
I hope you’re enjoying the weekend. Best wishes. N xx

Ooooohhhh I feel like I just met you for real! Maybe how you felt after watching that tutorial I did the other week! I completely forgot you would have an Australian accent!

I love that you ended up learning from your granddaughter, so lovey to witness the world from their perspective. My hunch would be that she has been conditioned to expect feedback from ‘app’ based games as lots of similar ones would give it. Like you say it’s activity dependent, drawing for example she would be conditioned to know that it’s her decision when she’s done. I’m sure as long as we give children a mix of activities they won’t lose the ability to self direct. But it is important to let them have freedom and independent play just as much as it’s important to play with them and teach.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom, Sacha. You are right about the need for feedback, and the type of feedback required, being dependent upon the type of activity. I like your reminder to give children a mix of activities, some which they self-direct and some with guidance. That notion of time for independent play is definitely high on my list for early children.

Wow Norah! I think this is great – sure, there is already some very constructive feedback about lighting and camera position in the comments, but I’m just in awe of your own relaxed learning style by throwing this out there for comment anyway!
The tools promise to be really exciting and useful – there will be so many grateful teachers, parents AND kids out there and I wish you massive success.
This post brought back the times we had with Max and the whole dyslexia challenge around 8/9/10 years old. I found Numbershark and Wordshark to be life-savers making timetable and spelling learning much more rewarding and enjoyable. Funnily enough, we recently found clip on Simon’s computer where Max has clearly set the camera rolling whilst he’s been at work. I had forgotten how early a riser he was and that I set him the task of doing some work on both these programmes whilst I was getting ready in the mornings – and before breakfast. And there’s his little face chatting away to himself about what the answer might be and what ‘prize’ he was rewarded with. Then I come into view briefly – almost stern.. Have you finished that yet? Ok Breakfast now.. I won’t share it – it’d embarrass us both!
But just to say kids love this way of learning and it frees up teachers and parents to do other things simultaneously 😀 ❤️

Thank you, Lisa, for the the enthusiasm of your response and your wonderful support. I have to say though that your statement regarding my “throwing this out there for comment” makes me a trifle anxious (which is a fairly normal state for me in fact). I feel rather daunted by all the lovely comments I have received, wondering how far I have misled everyone and if I will ever be able to live up to the expectations.
How gorgeous that video of Max must be, and what memories it must bring back. I’m sure you will treasure it. I’m sorry you won’t share it with us. Embarrassment hasn’t stopped me. (Maybe it should have!) I can’t imagine you ‘almost stern’! Thank you for sharing. 🙂

Hi, Norah. How lovely to hear your voice. The video is great .. clever girl! I wounldn’t know where to start, let alone get so far as completion.
I loved Littlie G2’s response to the game, her request for feedback, but also that she (given that she is younger than your target audience) also confirmed for you, ease of use.

I noticed (in the comment section) you, and others making reference to The-Wonderful-World-of-Google … Where would we be without it. And yet, of-course, we once were without it. This got me thinking… There (for me), although I do google … A LOT, is never so much joy in a google search as there was, as a child (and still is) a book search. One of my favorite books as a child was a question and answer/encyclopedia. I recently bought Littlie (who has a thirst for knowledge/facts/answers despite her academic delay) three encyclopedias – 1 general knowledge encyclopedia, 1 science encyclopedia, and 1 animals & nature. I can’t stress enough the joy these three books have bought to her … and to me 🙂

I wish you all the very best with this new venture, Norah. I’ll be watching your work-in-progress with interest 🙂

Thank you so much for joining in the conversation, Kimmie. I appreciate your comment. I know just what you mean when you compare Google and books. I love the immediacy of a Google search, but there is nothing better than poring over an article in an encyclopedia or specialist book. As soon as I delivered my granddaughter to her home this afternoon she got her little encyclopedia out, opened to a page about the eye, and brought it to me, asking me if I knew what it was. When I told her it was the eye, she proceeded to explain how it works with the light going in here and . . . What joy! We had been discussing the importance of plants and water for them on the way home. Her knowledge impresses me. I can just imagine you and Littlie sharing the same pleasures. How reassuring it is to know that all around the world parents and grandparents are fostering curiosity, a love of reading and a thirst for knowledge. These are gifts that will go on giving from generation to generation, long after we are gone. What a fabulous legacy. Thank your for your kind words. 🙂

GD’s is a bit younger than my target audience, and I have designed the resource to be used as a teaching episode (teacher and class discussion) rather than for student independent use. If it was an app or intended for individual use, then feedback would be required. I guess I wait and see what teachers think. It is always good to get feedback, of any sort. Thanks for yours. 🙂

Well…my 2 cents? If it’s strictly for teacher and class discussion, I wouldn’t add feedback on the app. It would be more powerful and lead to more interaction if there was no feedback. But that’s just my opinion. 🙂

Thank you, Sarah. Finally, one who agrees with me about feedback. Funnily enough, when I was in the lunchroom at work today I was discussing feedback with a student who is finalising his PhD about feedback. He remarked that it was strange that he was researching feedback as he didn’t like getting it as it always meant more work! It would be a lot more work for me to add feedback to the activity, but it was never my intention to do so as it is strictly, as you say, for teacher and class discussion. That’s where the feedback (and the learning) comes in. It would be a less effective teaching tool if the feedback was provided by the activity. There would be no need for discussion or problem solving at all. You have made my day. Thank you! 🙂

P.S. Both my kids used the app with four flavors, only two scoops, double counts (chocolate/chocolate), and flip flavors count (chocolate/strawberry) and strawberry/chocolate) and they got 16. They wanted feedback from the TEACHER if that was correct. Which we did here but, apparently, you’re the “real” teacher since you made it. 😄

What an amazing woman you are! Thank you so much for trying out the idea with your boys. And aren’t they just wonderful for doing so as well; particularly since they are older than the target audience. Yeah, if double counts, and flip flavours count, then 16 is the correct number!!! But, if flip flavours were considered the same, what effect would that have on the results? And what if I said “two flavours” instead of “two scoops”, would that change anything?
I am amused at them wanting feedback from the teacher. Why wasn’t Mum good enough? You’ll have to tell them Mum knows, but that the teacher has some more questions for them. I will email a link to the “real” activity in trial/temporary version with another follow-up activity the boys might try if they feel so inclined, but its not compulsory!
Thank you so much for your invaluable feedback. 🙂

Great video, Norah, and I enjoyed how it became an opportunity for you to learn, too! The cycle of marketing is similar to that of a lifelong learner. Perhaps the underlying goal of good marketing is to learn what others need, how they respond to what we provide and the adjustments we make because of feedback. I also enjoyed seeing you on the video!

Thanks Charli. I like the connection you’ve made been marketing and learning. Even a teacher is marketing whatever is being taught to the students. Sometimes they buy it. Sometimes they don’t. I’m pleased you enjoyed seeing me on the video. I didn’t! 🙂

Work in Progress – a great concept that we all should embrace, no matter what age. I know of people who decide at the age of 50, or 55, or 60 etc that they have STOPPED. No more growing allowed. I, on the other hand, hope I grow and learn and make mistakes, and fail and succeed until my last breath.
I enjoyed this post. I know nothing about videos – the idea of making one is scary! Kudos to you for exploring and learning and growing as you create yours

Thank you, Pam. I’m with you – in learning for the long haul. There’s too much learning left to do and too much fun in doing so to say, “I’m done”. I think life may as well be over if it’s a life without learning!

Very interesting post. I love the feedback you got from your grand daughter. How valuable is that! Interesting that she wanted an ‘end’ to the game. I do think that our young folk live in a world where instant gratification is expected. This tips over into their learning because the system keeps piling on the pressure of targets to be attained. Their life is like a computer game. So then we have to invest one lesson a week on teaching them how to learn. Here it is called L2 or Learning to Learn. Because information is so accessible everywhere – usually just a Google away – the need to learn as we did, and enjoy expanding knowledge is virtually extinct. They have to work within the world they will grow into and indeed create. It seems alien to our generation but life moves faster now and sadly will continue to do so. It’s vitally important that we try to impose a little self reflection which is attempted in KS3 by somethings we call peer assessment.
For me, I’m astounded at how much I learn every day and still want to learn. In fact, the older I get the more important it seems to be to seek out knowledge, to research stuff I’m interested in and how much I embrace the Internet. Thanks Norah. We may be a world away geographically but our thoughts seem to be pretty much in tandem😊

Hi Jenny. Thank you so much for your wonderful comment. I think our thoughts are in tandem on this. We both see the importance of discussion and reflection for learning, and perhaps the opportunity to decide for oneself when a task is complete. And we are both excited about our ongoing learning. Isn’t it great having everything just a google-click away. I must say it can make a (this) learner a trifle lazy though. I’m so pleased to have access to the internet. Self-reflection is very important and I’m so pleased it is included in the programs over there. As you say – we’re just a click away! 🙂

I also was very impressed with your video – as I have been of others you’ve shared. We actually bought a camera for my launch events with the view that I might also make some video blog posts, but it hasn’t happened yet. Video seems a perfect way for you to explain your teaching aids, and probably less important for what I’m doing – not sure I’d have the patience to do repeat takes.

Thank you for your support, Anne. I think I spent four hours on that production, and then another couple on subsequent failed attempts.It is definitely a test of patience (as well as ability) but I think they will be worthwhile, and perhaps once I have a bit more of an idea of what I am doing, they won’t take as long (says she hopefully!) I have to admit the patience does wear thin, particularly in the relentless heat we’ve been experiencing.

It sounds like G2 knows the fundamentals of GUI and application design. I like that revelation you had.

I concur with some of the other comments here on your video. Overall, I’d say that is a very good first attempt. Well done. Although I don’t do it and have no experience in the field, I know that creating quality video is indeed much more difficult than many people realise.

The pace was just right (not dwelling or skipping on details). The scene cuts were appropriate and non-distracting (only use those animated cutscenes to indicate that a period of time has passed, just like you have in that video). All these video editing tools include those fancy cutscene effects and fades, but I think direct cuts like you have used generally work the best.

Glad you’ve adjusted your camera position; the positioning in that video implied superiority, which is probably something you want to avoid when promoting to fellow teachers. Eye-level or slightly above works better (maybe clipped to the top of your screen). Another effective and more relaxed option is to have the camera off to an angle, zoomed out a little and with your head/eyes facing the camera but body facing slightly away (think Mona Lisa) – obviously only works when you don’t need to see the screen, so this might not be too useful in your situation.

Yes the background is bright and overexposed (resulting in your poor contrast). I think you might have two options to try and correct this, or to at least experiment with. Try placing a desk lamp near the camera (so that at least you are illuminated as well). Even better, try using two desk lamps (second one off to the left or right by say 50cm). If possible, use an incandescent bulb. Also try experimenting with covering the window somehow – some cheap experimental covers: layers of newspaper, bed sheets/covers, large black garbage bags. I suspect a layer or two of black garbage bags followed by a white sheet would get a reasonable looking result. I think it might dim that incoming light and then diffuse the rest of it enough. Once you get some idea on how thick your cover needs to be, then you can start planning an easier and more practical solution.

I didn’t mind the audio quality (presumably from the webcam), but others would say a good quality microphone is essential. Maybe upgrade when you start raking in those thousands.

Be conscious of your mouse cursor movement. You did well in that video, but I mention it for future productions. Many people don’t realise just how much they flick or loop the cursor around the screen, which doesn’t look good in a presentation. You don’t want the cursor meandering all over the screen, but you also don’t want it moving roboticaly and linearly from point to point.

Final tip, when you think the video is almost out of draft or completed, play it back to yourself twice. Once with the audio muted and once with audio but with your eyes closed. You will notice every major problem with your video if you do this and can then decide what you want to do about it.

Thank you very much for the thought and detail you have put into the feedback on my video, Steven. You have provided many wonderful suggestions.
I did try putting a sheet over the window for a few subsequent attempts but it was still too bright. I’ll need to use a few of the other strategies you suggest.
I like your suggestion of a Mona Lisa pose. I think I’ll have to enlist the help of some assistants. Bec has offered to help, and she would be wonderful, but she is very busy too. I recorded the screen with one tool and me with another and then combined them, so I could achieve the angle. It would just be more difficult for me to work it out on my own. I’m not sure about illuminating me though! 🙂
I was using a microphone to record. I thought I was the problem with the audio. I thought my speech was slurring after so many attempts, but maybe it is the quality of the mic. It is quite a few years old now and was relatively cheap at the time. I take your point. Thanks.
Also the one about the cursor. I find it frustrating when watching other videos and the cursor is in all the wrong places or I can’t find or follow it.
And what a fabulous suggestion to play back with and without audio and or visuals. If it helps me to notice every major issue, well I just might give up! Kidding. No it’s a wonderful suggestion that I wouldn’t have thought of.
As I say, I very much appreciate all your suggestions and the generosity of your advice. It is all practical and beneficial. Thank you. 🙂

Hi Norah. Your video is wonderful. In it you explain very clearly what is expected in the “game of ice cream cones”. I loved your granddaughter’s response and the way she was able to explain the difference between the two cones with the same colors of ice cream in a different order. I often think that young children know the answer, but don’t always know how to articulate why it is so.
I look forward to seeing more posts about your website.

Thank you, Michelle. I appreciate your feedback. Little G2 was good being able to explain the ice creams. I think it is important to ask children how they know, or how they worked something out. The opportunity to verbalize helps them understand their own thinking and enables them to apply it in other situations. Thanks for your interest in my website. I’m looking forward to having more to share as well. 🙂

Thanks, Geoff. I very much appreciate your feedback. I thought it was a bit dark too. I had turned off the lights. I thought I looked better in the dark! But I take your point about the bright light in the background. Maybe I need to record at a different time of day. In subsequent attempts I did cover the window with a sheet but it was still too bright. I’ll work on it. Thanks. 🙂

Hi Nor, I think you have done a great job. The video is very coherent, and you explain the resource so well. It is very interesting that “G2” wanted the program to tell her when she finished. Maybe that demonstrates that you have found a real niche – as she hadn’t interacted with anything like this before (so she didn’t know what to expect). I’m looking forward to the next installment in your discussion about your website!

I love that you are so open – I think we are all students, all learning, all trying to find the way – whatever it is. Testing things out is always a good idea [said she who often doesn’t] and your grand daughter gave you some good points to think about. As to videos – they are such minefields are they not. Some people are naturals and some are not – I’m guessing you are a natural as you have made a very coherent job of this presentation………. many don’t and I know I’d be hopeless as I like to move around and wave my hands a lot when talking which just doesn’t do if you are on video 🙂 I’d suggest raising the camera so you are looking straight on, or slightly up to, it rather than down. As to the rest, it is practise, practise, practise, just like with every new skill, yes? I also think it doesn’t have to be perfect straight up – nothing is set in concrete and as you make more videos and grow in confidence and sort out what has to be in there and what doesn’t, it will become easier and easier. It sounds like you need a few children of different ages and experiences to trial the games and activities – they can be counted on for invaluable feedback!

Thank you so much for your lovely feedback, Pauline. I really appreciate that you were so specific with your suggestions. I am amused at your considering me a natural though. I find talking to the camera so difficult, and like to get feedback from those with whom I am speaking. My daughter-in-law also mentioned the angle of the camera. I did try to fix that in subsequent takes but haven’t got it just right yet. None of the attempts at improvement were any good. Not even good enough to be considered a blooper. I agree with you about the need for practice. Hopefully once I have done a few it will become easier. Thank you for saying they don’t have to be perfect straight up. I hope people will appreciate the honesty and not miss the glitz. I am looking forward to getting more feedback. It is invaluable. I very much appreciate yours. I also appreciate your comment about my openness. As I reflect on my own learning, as well as the responses of others, I continue to learn about learning. I hope that, through sharing my understandings, others will learn too.