If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Dear members,

In order to show respect towards someones wishes, regarding if they want to get surprised by the issue of the manga, that wasn't showed yet in the anime series, please place the proper "Spoiler" prefix on your thread, whenever you create one that contains any spoilers. If you do decide to post any spoiler at all, while creating the thread, in the drop-down box before the thread title, again, please make sure you selected "Spoiler" as the thread prefix.

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

Look Minato and Kakashi started as book worms, the one trouble Naruto has had at school is book learning, He has always been a hands on guy. It is only now that book learning is starting to cache up to Naruto, but He is still at heart a practical learner.

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

Originally Posted by Minato Sensei

This again...
Ok Naruto did master shape manipulation that's why he is able to do the rasengan, but he is not at the highest point, that's why he can't do it with one hand and uses clones for that... both naruto and konohamaru are still young , they will master it eventually and will be able to do it with one hand... that shit takes time and practice. remember that even jyraia stated that mastering this jutsu is like looking left and right at the same time, so you can't expect a young ninja to master it that easily.
The rasengan looks easy and simple because naruto makes it look that way, remember it is still an A rank jutsu. We don't know how long it took Jyraia or Kakashi to master it but Minato who was a genius, and the creator of the jutsu, spent three years training in order to master it.
And for the kyubi part if you understand the basics of making the rasengan you will know why he was able to do it at the valley of end using just one hand, if not then i will not explain it again as it is posted above and in other threads as well.

Minato took three years because he actually had the problem of delevoping the jutsu.

Jariya definately didn't take 3years

Kakashi copied it with sharingan

When naruto was in kyuubi mode he was only in one tailed cloak mode and very much in control.

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

I agree that he has been using it for a long time and he could have mastered it by now but if kishi wants him to do it using his signature jutsu then why not?
We don't know about Jyraia how much it took him to master it... i agree he didn't spend 3 years but who knows for sure? and it doesn't really matter.
Yea the sharingan can copy jutsu, especially those which require hand seals... but the rasengan doesn't and as also stated by kakashi even if the rasengan can copy jutsu/moves the user still needs the skill to perform them so no shortcuts here.

Yes naruto was in control as i said the rasengan was made from his chakra and he used the kiuby's chakra as a shield, a capsule , something to compress the rasengan and maintain it's shape while he focused on the power and rotation... it is the same concept as with the clones...

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

Yeh they mastered shape manipulation so they can do rasengan rite" well guess what naruto can do rasengan to if u somehow missed that.

So Konahamaru hasn't master shape manipulation either

Do u understand how wrong what u said is, how the hell can a technique that is the highest level of shape manipulation be done by someone who hasn't master shape manipulation. DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW SMART YOU ARE SOUNDING.

Why then didn't naruto suddenly master shape manipulation at the valley of end, where he did a one handed rasengan?

Bruh don't be mad atleast I was nice about your Thread topic

Naruto+Konohamaru= YOUNG they still have time to actually master rasengan with one hand. They haven't mastered that part of shape manipulation. Naruto used it with one hand at the valley of the end because of the fox's cloak... Rasengan is the ultimate technique for shape manipulation. Although naruto can do the technique and spam it on every enemy hefaces against, Naruto did not MASTER shape manipulation which is a one hand rasengan... Minato J man and Kakashi mastered it because they can do rasengan with one hand, and make it various sizes with no problem...

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

Originally Posted by Minato Sensei

I agree that he has been using it for a long time and he could have mastered it by now but if kishi wants him to do it using his signature jutsu then why not?
We don't know about Jyraia how much it took him to master it... i agree he didn't spend 3 years but who knows for sure? and it doesn't really matter.
Yea the sharingan can copy jutsu, especially those which require hand seals... but the rasengan doesn't and as also stated by kakashi even if the rasengan can copy jutsu/moves the user still needs the skill to perform them so no shortcuts here.

Yes naruto was in control as i said the rasengan was made from his chakra and he used the kiuby's chakra as a shield, a capsule , something to compress the rasengan and maintain it's shape while he focused on the power and rotation... it is the same concept as with the clones...

Alright Kakashi is a very skilled Jonnin who was able to master 3 elements in manga(Earth, Lightening, Water) and 4 in anime(all manga + Fire). Kakashi is also a ninja who can control very acuately his chakra, hence him being a better assin type ninja in my opinion. Can u honestly tell me kakashi lacks the skill to acurately copy the rasengan with sharingan?

As for the on handed rasengan in one tailed form u nor I know what went on with that, but consider this.

Naruto had never used the FOX CLOAK before(notice I didn't say fox's chakra).
How would he instantly know that he can use the foxes chakra cloak to help compress the rasengan. (If kshi states other wise then he is a .,..,.,.,.,).

Lets consider he did some how instantly know he could use the fox cloak to compress the rasengan. In consideration to that, why would naruto forget or not mention that when Bee or the 8tails told him not to use clones?

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

Originally Posted by -The Agent-

Bruh don't be mad atleast I was nice about your Thread topic

Naruto+Konohamaru= YOUNG they still have time to actually master rasengan with one hand. They haven't mastered that part of shape manipulation. Naruto used it with one hand at the valley of the end because of the fox's cloak... Rasengan is the ultimate technique for shape manipulation. Although naruto can do the technique and spam it on every enemy hefaces against, Naruto did not MASTER shape manipulation which is a one hand rasengan... Minato J man and Kakashi mastered it because they can do rasengan with one hand, and make it various sizes with no problem...

As I said before Naruto has been doing rasengan 3yrs + don't u think that is enough time to master it?

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

Originally Posted by Modaro

As I said before Naruto has been doing rasengan 3yrs + don't u think that is enough time to master it?

And I'm not mad does a guy have to be angry to use the worl HELL ?

of course it is enough time to master it, but sadly he hasn't. I have no idea what he was doing during the time skip, all he really learned was Odama Rasengan, and that takes him and his clone to create and use it.

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

Well i agree with what you said.
It is weird how naruto used it for the first time and knew how.. and then never used or mentioned it again.
And also i agree with what you said about kakashi... he already knew chidori by the time he learned the rasengan so he had the basics of shape manipulation but we sill don't know how much it took him to perfect it
Oh and to answer all questions: remember that naruto is the number one most unpredictable ninja ever and so everything is possible for him

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

Originally Posted by Modaro

I have a problem with naruto Saying he needs a clone to do rasengan.

1. THE SHADOW CLONE TECHNIQUE
This Technique divides the user into equal copies of him/herself right down to chakra. The clones can move independently from the original naruto's will but does not have separate personalities. Therefore Naruto will think of a plan or strategy and his clone will have that same plan to carry out. They are basically and simply another naruto, not tied to one mind, they can think for themselves.
__________________________________________________ _________
Now the reason Naruto need his clone to do rasengan is because he could not concentrate on both shape manipulation, compressing the chakra at the same time. So basically it is two separate naruto's doing the same technique, Two Heads in the same Hole.

When Naruto had the one tailed cloak at the valley of end he did a one handed rasengan, kishi didn't tell us how he did it so here is what I think. Sasuke couldn't predict the movements of both naruto and the the chakra cloak, he stated "it was like the chakra had a mind of its own." Well yes he was correct, the 9tails was in control, while naruto stile had some control. The fox was the next mind/head focusing chakra in that situation helping to preform the rasengan.
__________________________________________________ _________
2. The TAILED BEAST BOMB
It was said that this move was the inspiration for rasengan having the same, rotation and compression principles. Therefore Naruto should use clones, but he was told not to use clones.

Instead he was forced to create chakra arms from the Rikodu cloak.

Because Naruto is controlling the fox chakra it should still prove too difficult a task since there is only one mind involved in making the beast bomb, the same dumb naruto mind that could not handle the overload of rotation and compression in the beginning of that same manga. How the hell all of a sudden is it that he is able to COMPRESSION, ROTATION, by himself. I mean all along it was too much load on his brain to preform two tasks at once so he created another copy of himself so it can do the other task for him and ease the overload on his tiny brain.

I BELIEVE THAT THIS WAS A MAJOR CONTRADICTION IN MANGA

I haven't read all previous replies but, if someone else said similar/same, I will prove you wrong for 2nd time

1. Naruto could create rasengan with one hand in valley of the end due to chakra shroud of fox thus meaning that he only had to release and rotate while shroud would take care of compression.

2. Answer is similar like the one of 1. question. If you remember from manga, jinchuriki user feels bijuu's chakra like extensions of his own body. So, if naruto for example, had four arms like that sound guy from "hunt for sasuke" arc, he would be able to do rasengan without shadow clones. Chakra arms are the same thing. He feels and controls them like his own arms. I guess that chakra shroud is also helping in creation of tailed beast rasengan.

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

[QUOTE=Modaro;2544675]I have a problem with naruto Saying he needs a clone to do rasengan.
On the present manga I think is not anymore dumb. One reason is he learns to invent unique jutsu using the shadow clone technique, since each shadow clone has a mind of its on, allowing the the clone to think individually to develop the a jutsu is feasible. He might have found a way how to do both shape manipulation and chakra compression at the same time.

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

You guys forgot something, I think.
While Naruto was in Sage Mode, how was he able to form the Rasengan and hit one of Pains' bodies so fast, eh??? Chapter 430 Page 17-18. That attack was WAAAYYY too fast for him to make a clone and then form the Rasengan and intercept that bastard.
What I can explain for myself concerning that is that Sage Mode just makes him control Chakera a lot better. He forms the Rasen-Shuriken real quick as well. What gives you guys?
Have you had your heads too deep up your asses, or what?

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

I haven't read all previous replies but, if someone else said similar/same, I will prove you wrong for 2nd time

1. Naruto could create rasengan with one hand in valley of the end due to chakra shroud of fox thus meaning that he only had to release and rotate while shroud would take care of compression.

2. Answer is similar like the one of 1. question. If you remember from manga, jinchuriki user feels bijuu's chakra like extensions of his own body. So, if naruto for example, had four arms like that sound guy from "hunt for sasuke" arc, he would be able to do rasengan without shadow clones. Chakra arms are the same thing. He feels and controls them like his own arms. I guess that chakra shroud is also helping in creation of tailed beast rasengan.

Satisfied?

1. YOU nor I know if that was the case and if it was then why didn't he automatically know that when in his new fox mode.

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

[QUOTE=Pradz;2550976]

Originally Posted by Modaro

I have a problem with naruto Saying he needs a clone to do rasengan.
On the present manga I think is not anymore dumb. One reason is he learns to invent unique jutsu using the shadow clone technique, since each shadow clone has a mind of its on, allowing the the clone to think individually to develop the a jutsu is feasible. He might have found a way how to do both shape manipulation and chakra compression at the same time.

What I'm saying is all of a sudden out of nowhere he can concentrate on every thing now. Then there is no need for the spare hands.

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

Originally Posted by AndreJNZ

You guys forgot something, I think.
While Naruto was in Sage Mode, how was he able to form the Rasengan and hit one of Pains' bodies so fast, eh??? Chapter 430 Page 17-18. That attack was WAAAYYY too fast for him to make a clone and then form the Rasengan and intercept that bastard.
What I can explain for myself concerning that is that Sage Mode just makes him control Chakera a lot better. He forms the Rasen-Shuriken real quick as well. What gives you guys?
Have you had your heads too deep up your asses, or what?

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

@AndreJNZ that's prof that Naruto doesn't have great chakra control because of the kyuubi. He can and knows how to use a rasengan without clones but the kyuubi messes with his chakra control, even now it would seem he does have full chakra control.

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

Originally Posted by niblack89

@AndreJNZ that's prof that Naruto doesn't have great chakra control because of the kyuubi. He can and knows how to use a rasengan without clones but the kyuubi messes with his chakra control, even now it would seem he does have full chakra control.

Doesn't have? No, probably not,eh? Though he still uses two clones to form the Rasen-Shuriken, but just a lot faster...WAY lot faster.Hehehe

As well as for the rasengan.

So basically he CAN form a Rasengan with one hand, so far only in Senin Modo.

Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

dudes have any of you ever thought of the fact that naruto could maybe have learnt to do rasengan with just one hand but just chose not to waste his effort learning it? why should he try to learn it when he can use what he knows perfectly. thats food for thought