just brew it! wrote:That's what I love about his drumming on the earlier Yes albums -- there's just a little "something extra" there rhythmically, that your garden variety rock drummer (or even your totally awesome rock drummer, like say... Mike Portnoy) can't match.

And that also comes through in the 1976 Genesis ROIOs while he filled in most of the drumming while Phil learned how to be the frontman.

Listen to the version of Cinema Show on Seconds Out. When Bruford's drums finally come in at around the 2:00 mark, it's a truly transcendent moment. Nobody else sounds quite like that; and few drummers have a style that is so recognizable.

Captain Ned wrote:Hell, on that note alone even his eventual (and final) tour replacement, Chester Thompson (ex-Mothers of Invention), comes across as jazz-centered.

just brew it! wrote:Listen to the version of Cinema Show on Seconds Out.

I'll stick with the 1976 ROIOs. Phil was once quoted as saying "when we went into the studio to record Seconds Out". It may have been "touch up" or it may have been whole cloth. Tony Banks was a well-known perfectionist and having once bodged 2-3 notes of the glorious piano intro to Firth of Fifth during a live show on the Selling England tour simply refused to play the intro live ever again. Nobody really knows and it's one of the (likely perpetual) enduring mysteries of the Genesis discography. AFAIK, no one's tied ROIO recordings to Seconds Out to date. Still doesn't diminish Seconds Out, but no one knows how "live" it was.

Don't worry, that body of work with Genesis clearly shows Bruford as a great drummer, especially when they went full-prog and Phil played against Bill and vice versa (young'uns here may have a comedic view of Phil Collins but the man is easily in the top 5 rock drummers of all time, IMO). In an April 1976 show in Pittsburgh Phil introduces Bill in his semi-Cockney voice and goes on about how the money Genesis had to pay him to appear, then mutters sotto voce "not really". That show is in the top 3 of the 120 or so I've got squirreled away, and Phil had been the frontman for all of 3 weeks at the time.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

Captain Ned wrote:And that also comes through in the 1976 Genesis ROIOs while he filled in most of the drumming while Phil learned how to be the frontman. Hell, on that note alone even his eventual (and final) tour replacement, Chester Thompson (ex-Mothers of Invention), comes across as jazz-centered.

Holy crap is that ROIO in superior quality! How did they ever get away with such high-end live recording back in '76 and never release it on a legitimate label!? I've been listening to it for the past hour! WOW! Impressive.

just brew it! wrote:Listen to the version of Cinema Show on Seconds Out. When Bruford's drums finally come in at around the 2:00 mark, it's a truly transcendent moment. Nobody else sounds quite like that; and few drummers have a style that is so recognizable.

I listened to this and when it entered the 2:00 mark, I heard nothing out the ordinary. Many drummers before and after him have accomplished the same if not more. One can only so much with banging sticks on drums all day.

thegleek wrote:I listened to this and when it entered the 2:00 mark, I heard nothing out the ordinary. Many drummers before and after him have accomplished the same if not more. One can only so much with banging sticks on drums all day.

...and if all you're doing is "banging sticks", yes others have done it better! To me, Bruford (and the Zappa alum drummers mentioned above) are some of the most *musical* drummers out there. They're not just keeping the beat, they're contributing to the music in a significant way.

The years just pass like trains. I wave, but they don't slow down.-- Steven Wilson

just brew it! wrote:...and if all you're doing is "banging sticks", yes others have done it better! To me, Bruford (and the Zappa alum drummers mentioned above) are some of the most *musical* drummers out there. They're not just keeping the beat, they're contributing to the music in a significant way.

And what position, if placed on a "Top10 drummers of all-time list", would Neil Peart fit into? What positions would the other dudes you mentioned be placed?

Neil Peart, John Bonham and Buddy Rich go way up at the top of the list. Not too far below them are Keith Moon and Dave Grohl. To me they're the 5 best drummers ever. Then there's Animal from the Muppet Show. Then comes everyone else kind of tied for 7th. And then way at the bottom is Ringo Starr.

Last edited by derFunkenstein on Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do.

just brew it! wrote:...and if all you're doing is "banging sticks", yes others have done it better! To me, Bruford (and the Zappa alum drummers mentioned above) are some of the most *musical* drummers out there. They're not just keeping the beat, they're contributing to the music in a significant way.

And what position, if placed on a "Top10 drummers of all-time list", would Neil Peart fit into? What positions would the other dudes you mentioned be placed?

All of them (Peart and Portnoy included) would definitely be in my top 10. Not sure about relative ordering though. Peart was the perfect drummer for Rush, I don't think anyone else could've taken his place. Much like I still consider Bruford to be *the* Yes drummer, even though Alan White was in the band longer. In terms of all-around favorite, my top pick would probably be Bruford, or maybe Bozzio.

Funny thing about the Zappa drummers is, I'm not really a huge Zappa fan; all I've got is his 3-disc "Shut Up n Play Yer Guitar" series. But I've got a buttload of albums by other people that have his ex-drummers on them!

The years just pass like trains. I wave, but they don't slow down.-- Steven Wilson

just brew it! wrote:Funny thing about the Zappa drummers is, I'm not really a huge Zappa fan; all I've got is his 3-disc "Shut Up n Play Yer Guitar" series. But I've got a buttload of albums by other people that have his ex-drummers on them!

So if you had to pick only 1 album to showcase that Zappa's drummer, which one would you choose?

thegleek wrote:Holy crap is that ROIO in superior quality! How did they ever get away with such high-end live recording back in '76 and never release it on a legitimate label!? I've been listening to it for the past hour! WOW! Impressive.

The best Genesis ROIOs (just like all the best ROIOs) come from the master tapes made for shows intended to be broadcast on the local FM station. Back in the '70s, if a show sold out quickly in a big town, there was a decent chance that the local art-house FM station (and in the mid-70's most all FM stations were art-house stations) would simulcast the show live. Once it's been through the FM chain it's really no better than an MP3 (strictly forbidden in most ROIO trading places), but the master tapes are pure gold.

My guess is that you're listening to April 13, 1976 in Pittsburgh or June 10, 1976 in London.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

just brew it! wrote:Funny thing about the Zappa drummers is, I'm not really a huge Zappa fan; all I've got is his 3-disc "Shut Up n Play Yer Guitar" series. But I've got a buttload of albums by other people that have his ex-drummers on them!

So if you had to pick only 1 album to showcase that Zappa's drummer, which one would you choose?

Since I don't own many Zappa albums, my picks would be:

Chad Wackerman - I'd go with any of his first three solo albums (Forty Reasons, The View, Scream). Be forewarned that these may not be your cup of tea since you've indicated you're not really into fusion.

Terry Bozzio - Polytown (with David Torn on guitar and the late great Mick Karn on bass) is one of my "desert island" discs. Black Light Syndrome (with Tony Levin and Steve Stevens) is a kick-butt "crank it up" heavy instrumental rock album. The former is pretty solidly in the experimental/fusion vein, so you'd probably enjoy BLS more of the two.

The years just pass like trains. I wave, but they don't slow down.-- Steven Wilson

Have to look into those ROIOs. I'm a pretty big fan of Genesis, but I'm not a fan of live albums, exactly because... you're never sure how much of it is actually live. The touch ups, the re-recordings... I'd rather hear imperfections, proving that's it's authentic. How many times, watching a "live" DVD, have I seen the drummer hit a crash, but there were no crash sound (or vice versa), the singer sustaining a note for a second longer than he's actually in front of the mic, or those out of sync notes on that guitar solo... Of course if you only have audio, you can't really tell this, but there are other clues that make you doubt the authenticity of the live recording. So in general I just avoid the live albums...

Those ROIOs though (what does that mean, ROIO?) sound like it's the real thing. I'll have to look into them, although I'm not sure where I'll be able to get them (don't hesitate to PM me )

"The mind is like a parachute: it doesn't work unless it's open"... Frank Zappa

vince wrote:I'm a pretty big fan of Genesis, but I'm not a fan of live albums, exactly because... you're never sure how much of it is actually live. The touch ups, the re-recordings... I'd rather hear imperfections, proving that's it's authentic.

PM sent.

The worst Genesis re-recording, IMO, is how Peter Gabriel re-recorded all of his vocals for the Lamb show in the first Genesis box set (1969-1975). The underlying show (1/11/75, Lakeland, FL) is the best Lamb boot out there, yet a 30 years older Gabriel re-recorded all of the vocals. Instead of the young high-pitched Gabriel voice one would expect for 1975 we get the old fat Gabriel Mel Tormé voice. Once you hear the original the dubbed official release is jarring.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

vince wrote:Have to look into those ROIOs. Those ROIOs though (what does that mean, ROIO?) sound like it's the real thing. I'll have to look into them, although I'm not sure where I'll be able to get them (don't hesitate to PM me )

For music recordings ROIO means "Recording of Indeterminate Origin", kind of a bootleg recording of unknown authorship.

This be some whacked out stuff. I actually picked it up not too long after it was released (over a decade ago), and didn't quite know what to make of it. It has kind of grown on me over the years though.

The years just pass like trains. I wave, but they don't slow down.-- Steven Wilson

Been listening to the Headspace EP they did some years back. They are finally coming out with a full album this year. If classic prog is your thing, you probably will love this. Shamelessly stated influences: Yes, Rush, Genesis, Dream Theater among others. And you can actually hear that in the music, mostly Yes (probably influenced by the keyboard palyer, which is Adam Wakeman... Rick's son!). My favorite from that EP is the song Sane Life. Aaaah, prog bliss!

"The mind is like a parachute: it doesn't work unless it's open"... Frank Zappa

vince wrote:Been listening to the Headspace EP they did some years back. They are finally coming out with a full album this year. If classic prog is your thing, you probably will love this. Shamelessly stated influences: Yes, Rush, Genesis, Dream Theater among others. And you can actually hear that in the music, mostly Yes (probably influenced by the keyboard palyer, which is Adam Wakeman... Rick's son!). My favorite from that EP is the song Sane Life. Aaaah, prog bliss!

So, cuz of your post, I listened to their "Salmagundi" release, and I actually liked it! Colour me crazy!

nVidia video drivers FAIL, click for more infoDisclaimer: All answers and suggestions are provided by an enthusiastic amateur and are therefore without warranty either explicit or implicit. Basically you use my suggestions at your own risk.

Just discovered something new (for me anyway). The band is called Sleepy Sun. It sounds very interesting. Don't know how to classify it... stoner rock maybe? A bit psychedelic? Anyway, I found the melodies sounded original and interesting. And not the regular style of song structure either... Maybe sounds like The Mars Volta, but without the "chaos"...

There is one full song you can listen to on the link above, and samples of all tracks on their Facebook page (sorry can't link, I don't have access to FB from work).

"The mind is like a parachute: it doesn't work unless it's open"... Frank Zappa

vince wrote:Been listening to the Headspace EP they did some years back. They are finally coming out with a full album this year. If classic prog is your thing, you probably will love this. Shamelessly stated influences: Yes, Rush, Genesis, Dream Theater among others. And you can actually hear that in the music, mostly Yes (probably influenced by the keyboard palyer, which is Adam Wakeman... Rick's son!). My favorite from that EP is the song Sane Life. Aaaah, prog bliss!

So, cuz of your post, I listened to their "Salmagundi" release, and I actually liked it! Colour me crazy!

*thumbs up*! You know what? I didn't even know there was a song from their new album available yet!! Gonna check it out tonight

"The mind is like a parachute: it doesn't work unless it's open"... Frank Zappa