I believe the reason for the marked decrease in the written communication skills of our high school graduates is email, internet chatting, and blog sites. One could also add that many businesses frequently use power point slides which use a bulletized format. Yes, you are correct, I am writing this message onto an online forum.

Communication involves one person transmitting information understood by the receiving party as the sender intended it.

I understand the need to avoid slang and what not so brothers can understand, no matter their demographic.

But I'd say this. Sometimes I'm typing from my phone and I expect a brother to understand when I say a phrase such as "U r jokin rite?"...not grammatically correct, yes. But of course brothers understand what the intended message was and that was delivered clearly.

I don't see the need for nitpickiness (if that is a word, though I don't think it is since there's a red wavy line under the word as I type)

As much as technology has changed, can't blame it all on the younger text generation. They too have to go to school and write papers and communicate with other people other than their peers in an intelligible manner. Though textspeak is crazy and takes time to understand, I'm not hammering it on the new generation. Hardly.

Disagree. The moderators of the forum expect it, as spelled out in the original post, and I as a Mason am expected to devote to study of the seven liberal arts and sciences. We do not discard those for convenience. We are Masons. We make the extra effort. Remember, YOU are someone's impression of Freemasonry. When you post "U R Joking, rite?", sure I understand you, but I am also less than impressed.

Certainly I understand your point, but on this we do disagree brother. As Masons we must always put our best foot forward as we are all representatives of this organization.

I try to be as clear and concise as possible. I may be getting older, but I find myself more and more annoyed at the increased use slang, all capital letters, etc,. by people. Slang terms get used so often that it actually makes it's way into the dictionary as a legitimate word!

My thirteen year old son just informed me that they don't even teach cursive hand writing in a lot of the schools here because nobody hand writes letters much anymore.

I put the blame on society we allowed these things to happen. We as the people have lost ourselves. What happen to the Martins and Malcomes of these world. What happen to each on teach one, It takes a nation to raise a child. We as the people have become so dependent on "It's not my problem". What we forgot is in the long run as we now are beginning it is our problem.

This is so important, since accurate communication can sometimes mean the difference between life and death. All of us must endeavor to learn to communicate in such a way that the reader/listener will understand easily what was said/written. Thank you for making us all aware of this.

Thank you Brother Jay. What a nice welcome. I have written a kind of Bio as you suggested for all to see. I look forward to learning more about Free Masonry and becoming a better Master Mason as God gives me the opportunity. Very Best Wishes, Brother! I encourage you to get back into Ham Radio. It's the greatest hobby in the world. And you meet a lot of really great people (like yourself).

I have to laugh when I think back to the 1970's, working for HFC. They made us learn their "code" to write our notes on the account cards so the customers could not read what we were writing. That code was almost identical to the texting shorthand of today.

Don't get me started on text-speak. If someone sends me an SMS in this dreadful shorthand, I request they send it again in English. If they complain, then I tell them that their message can't have been that important in the first place.

That is to why the 'mouth to ear' ... to teach proper English usage in speech vs .... ghetto slang ... one can't write it if he can not speak the 'grammer & rhetoric' correctly.

Further, in the operative days of Masonry, the guild was the only schooling (education) a man would have the opportunity to receive. ...

Further still, in many areas of the country it was the Freemasons or local Lodge that started schools to teach their children and the children of their neighbors. Many of these became today's public schools. It was Ben Franklin that first advocated for public schools in the new United States. ....

So I think "Penmanship & Spelling' is well covered. However, there tends to be some that joins the forum that thinks everyone understands his 'ghetto slang'.

"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."

Is "ghetto slang" even an appropriate term to use? I'm sure you're not using it in an inflamitory manner, but that term comes with certain connotations. It's sort of like telling someone not to speak "hillbilly" or something along those lines.

As far as what we write, who judges was is appropriate and how strict are we supposed to be. Should we have done sort of template we need to follow for writing posts? Are we going to start calling each other out for the improper use of punctuation marks? Maybe we should start using MLA, APA, or Chicago style?

When I was in grade school, having the words: "but", "and", and "or" at the begging of a sentence was really frowned upon. BUT . . . in college and in the course of conversation it's totally acceptable.

I find that the art of being succinct even while excersicing the abilities to pontificate are not unlike the challenges of mental dexterity required to produce readable and comprehensible output in a manner that is palatable to one's audience...

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DISCLAIMER: These are my comments, and mine alone - they do not necessarily apply to any group to which I belong!

Is "ghetto slang" even an appropriate term to use? I'm sure you're not using it in an inflamitory manner, but that term comes with certain connotations. It's sort of like telling someone not to speak "hillbilly" or something along those lines.

As far as what we write, who judges was is appropriate and how strict are we supposed to be. Should we have done sort of template we need to follow for writing posts? Are we going to start calling each other out for the improper use of punctuation marks? Maybe we should start using MLA, APA, or Chicago style?

When I was in grade school, having the words: "but", "and", and "or" at the begging of a sentence was really frowned upon. BUT . . . in college and in the course of conversation it's totally acceptable.

Then I suggest you reread to original post of this thread. ... Slang in one area of the country or community may not be understood else where.

The term 'ghetto slang' is appropriate when referring to generally un-appropriate form/style of speech. ... thus the reference for proper "Grammer & Rhetoric" to be used on the forum. Your attempt to make my use of the term as being 'inflamitory' was un-called for.

Slang speech, ghetto slang, or what ever you might want to call it to be 'politically correct' is usually (not always) indicative of an 'un-educated' person.

However, my reply was about the question of 'Penmanship & Spelling', if one can not speak English correctly he can not write it correctly either. ... The original post to this thread covers this.

Edited by edwmax - May/04/2012 at 12:44pm

"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."

...The term 'ghetto slang' is appropriate when referring to generally un-appropriate form/style of speech....

We also trust you meant "inappropriate"

edwmax wrote:

...However, my reply was about the question of 'Penmanship & Spelling', if one can not speak English correctly he can not write it correctly either....

While I agree that the practice of the proper form in the written word tends to reinforce the spoken, I ultimately disagree with this point, as I have met people who were functionally illiterate and had competent command of the Queen's English.

(like right now, haven't a clue what I just wrote, it just looked pretty when I typed it out... )

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DISCLAIMER: These are my comments, and mine alone - they do not necessarily apply to any group to which I belong!

I find that the art of being succinct even while excersicing the abilities to pontificate are not unlike the challenges of mental dexterity required to produce readable and comprehensible output in a manner that is palatable to one's audience...

.... precisely ....

"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."

...The term 'ghetto slang' is appropriate when referring to generally un-appropriate form/style of speech....

We also trust you meant "inappropriate"

I meant what was stated .... appropriate! ... my rhetoric is correct.

NobleShabba wrote:

edwmax wrote:

...However, my reply was about the question of 'Penmanship & Spelling', if one can not speak English correctly he can not write it correctly either....

While I agree that the practice of the proper form in the written word tends to reinforce the spoken, I ultimately disagree with this point, as I have met people who were functionally illiterate and had competent command of the Queen's English.

(like right now, haven't a clue what I just wrote, it just looked pretty when I typed it out... )

As I said "not always" ... I am fully aware some educated people will speak 'slang' to fit in with a group. However, these educated persons do know when it is appropriate and when it is not. ...

But my statement was that proper speech reinforces proper written sentences. The opposite of what you just wrote. ...However, your comment also seems to allude to a person that speaks correctly but can not write. I don't think a person can be educated in correct speech and not be able to write unless he is blind. ...

Anyway, one can not be a Mason (in my GL) and not be able to write. If a Candidate was found to be unable to write after he was initiated, he must learn to write before he can advance.

Edited by edwmax - May/04/2012 at 8:51pm

"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."

Wow!! On Tuesday I was talking to a senior Grand Lodge officer who admitted to me that he was dyslexic. My opinion of him has risen right up since then - imagine the effort required to learn ritual to a high level and write and receive reports.

"Descriptive dictionaries describe the language. They include
words that are commonly used even if they are nonstandard. They will often
include nonstandard spellings. Prescriptive dictionaries tend to be more
concerned about correct or standard English. They prescribe the proper
usage and spelling of words. That school dictionary in which I found
ain't was a descriptive dictionary."

"Inappropriate is the standard English term (it actually has Latin roots).

English does have a number of prefixes and suffixes which are nearly synonymous, so people, especially in everyday speech, will construct nonstandard words like “unappropriate.” Since we all know that un- means “not,” we know what the person is saying. I suppose you could also say “nonappropriate.” However, usually there is a standard form based on historical use and understanding. That word is inappropriate in this case.

Some dictionaries might include words like “unappropriate” or “nonappropriate” because someone somewhere used the word in a serious manner. Such dictionaries are called descriptive dictionaries; they merely describe the word used without making any observation about its propriety or standard use.

Some people would see such invented constructions as a sign of lack of education or lack of understanding. In the example you gave, use inappropriate even though we may understand the other words. Using the others may give some people the impression that you are not well-educated, well-read, or well-spoken as you could be."

So ... it is not a slang word. It is in Webster's. ... and it was not a misspelling in the 1913 dictionary.

Just because it is in Webster's does not mean it is not slang. Some Dictionaries include ain't, but that doesn't mean that it isn't slang.

Webster's Revised Unabrideged Dictionary is a descriptive Dictionary:

"Descriptive dictionaries describe the language. They include words that are commonly used even if they are nonstandard. They will often include nonstandard spellings.Prescriptive dictionaries tend to be more concerned about correct or standard English. They prescribe the proper usage and spelling of words. That school dictionary in which I found ain't was a descriptive dictionary."

The citations in my previous post make it clear that proper (standard) usage dictates the use of "inappropriate" when you are indicating something is not appropriate.

I am a special education teacher. Part of my job is to teach writing to high school students with moderate special needs, English being a second language to many of them. I too lament the deterioration and lack of emphasis on writing skills in our schools. I am known to be a fairly decent writer, however, my penmanship is terrible as I do not have well developed fine motor coordination.

How did I develop my writing skills? Two things:

1. I read a lot. Reading and writing is like tasting and smelling. One cannot taste without the sense of smell. Likewise, IMO, (with perhaps a few exceptions) one cannot develop writing skills without being able to read decently. My writing skills really took off when I started reading Charles Dickens, a very complex but effective writer. It doesn't have to be Charles Dickens, it can be any advanced writer.

2. Some may laugh or find this hard to believe- I use a fountain pen. My penmanship is so bad that a fountain pen with its increased friction forces me to slow down and makes my writing more legible. I then read somewhere that years ago, students used fountain or ink pens for writing and it forced them to slow down and form their letters. The slower process also allowed them greater time to think about what they were going to write and improved their writing.

When it comes to Grammar, proper standard English puts us on the same page. Has anyone tried to read writing by common English people in the 1600's? Try reading John Smith's account of encountering animals and Indians in the New World. Very difficult to understand. Likewise today, many of our high school students were taught writing under the Whole Language system which did not emphasize spelling and grammar. Thankfully, Whole Language, while it had is merits, is no longer taught, but the damage has been done in many cases. However with text messaging, these new slangs and abbreviations have come in and I fear we are going backwards once again.

I agree Bro Droche. May I make one other suggestion? Read to you children when they're toddlers. Not only do they learn the beauty of language, it also inspires them to learn to read and gives them a love of reading for life (if my children are anything to go by). It's also one of the best parts of being a parent.

Just happened on this post.... I have 3 kids, all adults now. When they were little, I read to them every night. As time went on, they started to read to me. About the time the oldest boy was 11 or so, When we were visiting my parents, I commented to my mother that they really enjoyed reading. She got that funny smile that mothers get when dispensing momentuous information.... "You like reading, don't you?""Uh.. yeah...." (I always have.)"I used to read to you and your brother and sister when you were little"The penny dropped about then, and I realised that she was right, that reading to them when they are babies and toddlers instills a comfortable feeling and induces them to like reading. My middle son and his wife are reproducing. We have started buying books for the kid. Maybe he/she won't read books, but whatever media is there, I expect him/her to be an avid reader by the age of 5 or 6.

Well said my friend. "God, ' says Sanctius, "created man the participant of reason; and as he willed him to be a social being, he bestowed upon him the gift of language, in the perfecting of which there are three aids. The first is Grammar, which rejects from language all solecisms and barbarous expressions; the second is Logic, which is occupied with the truthfulness of language; and the third is Rhetoric, which seeks only the adornment of language."

"Be True to what you do, and what you do will be True to you." ~ Adrian N. Gollop

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