If it lasts this is the best Legacy disc i've thrown if longevity is an issue. Rampages are long when new. I hope that newer ones last longer. If they do they are better for power players of 420'+ throwers with some use for 400' throwers.

Mine is in Star like plastic, Icon?, 174 pearly light yellow almost white. Some sort of natural white? Underpowered it flew like a faster TL. I need to give this a try at full power. The glide seemed a little shy of the River so the distance might not be equal. I won't know before the summer. Fade too is a mystery thrown underpowered. For a disc that flips in all wind directions and speeds it needed remarkably similar initial hyzer angle of around 4 degrees to flip to flat from 200'-290'. The Rival rivals the River but a shoot out in summer conditions is needed. They might be fairly close other than for the glide that is still good if not a reference standard with the Rival. A perfectly usable FW. That could be easier to range than the River. A promising disc that seemed more generally useful than the Patriot from Legacy. Good show.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

I put a pinnacle rival in the bag to save my ce eagles from blowing up on cold winter trees. In the woods, the rival's low fade is all I ever needed. A couple weeks ago I put my two favorite eagles back in the bag but the Rival has remained setting between two eagles and three JLSs. My seasoned eagle just needs too much anny for shorter flicks off the tee. My new ce-jls needs too much hyzer to keep from turning into a headwind where the Rival's HSS is perfect for 200' low line flatish flicks.

If I need a 300' low line straight shot with almost no turn and mild fade, I backhand the Rival. If there is a mild headwind, I'll throw my seasoned eagle. If its a tunnel shot, I'll flip up a JLS.

There are some even less LSS discs than the Rivals. Leo, River, Sidewinder and good FDs (mine is 167 C high PLH flattish). Apache is fairly similar in LSS but slower and shorter probably.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

The winds were changing all the time (normal for sea side) and what seemed like lulls at the rip might have been hit with wind mid flight. With that disclaimer my Rival seemed to flip each time underpowered no matter the wind speed and direction but only about what a TL would do in calm conditions and save for stiffer headwinds i didn't need to add to the hyzer angle over the normal calm condition angle. I don't know where the cruising speed of this disc is so i cannot say what it would do at more power. I was in the 300' range tops with no footing to speak of. I threw it in a rear wind stand still once with 2' downhill to about 280-290'. That is how poor the footing was with steps. I noticed slight tracking from the Rival at about 15 MPH and it wasn't bad at 20 MPH but i gave a couple of degrees of extra hyzer to both wind speeds.

I don't know what the average performance is for S FDs since mine was an s-curving QJLS (not the straight finishing kind) with added speed of half a notch and way more glide. I did not see other C FDs at the shop so i have nothing to compare mine to. The 167 C FD is almost Rival flat so way thinner at the top than S FDs that i've seen and with a way higher PLH and at 300' flat release into 20 MPH wind it did not flip or bounce up and down. No idea what would happen at full power though. I hope that the rest of the C FDs are like mine because mine rocks seriously. Overall it is a superior disc to the Rival.

While the Rival flips some it may not be a hard anny disc until tilting it so much that it risks falling down early. IDK yet because the only annies i threw were in stiff rear wind and some 15' high and they flexed out. More power required for initial 4-5 degree anny angle. The good thing about the mild flip is that it is easier to control the sideways placing in smaller steps with discs that don't turn fast l>r so it could pair well with the FD. As long as you read the wind right the Rival needs less power and in the grip anny angle manipulation to be versatile being mildly understable. As such it is needs a more overstable partner. The C FD won't do straight then left flights -it needs to start hyzer to move a lot to the left in the end and with the glide given height it certainly moves more left than an overstable disc that drops soon does. With the wind putting restrictions to the Rival i would not use it as a sole FW but it is a great compliment to a stronger disc. And as such a perfectly viable option for a power thrower and for a 200' thrower it is likely a nice straight disc.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

Thanks JR. I never tried the C-FD because of the huge dome on the S-FDs. My new S-FDs flew like my seasoned QJs so I never gave the C-FD a chance. Its interesting to hear that your C-FDs is flat but it doesn't sound that different from my new ce qjls in flight.

I think I'll try another head to head Rivals vs. new QJs in some field work today.

EDIT after testing: The rivals are more stable than QJs and more like my seasoned eagle. The Rivals and my seasoned eagle all flipped into a 17mph headwind today where my newish ce eagle held a stable line with a late fade. I like the Rival in hand for my flick over my seasoned eagle but the discs all ended in the same location just taking different lines getting there. The Rival's fade is steady and gradual where the seasoned eagle would take a straighter line then fade harder much later in the flight. I think I'll pull the Rival, unless there is water to worry about, but its good to know I've got a ready replacement if anything should happen to my favored eagle.

My Rival flipped stand still rear wind. Only a little more in stiff head wind. I don't know how CE QJLS flies because we don't have CE here. I've only seen CE Eagle with one player here.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

JR wrote:My Rival flipped stand still rear wind. Only a little more in stiff head wind. I don't know how CE QJLS flies because we don't have CE here. I've only seen CE Eagle with one player here.

I played this afternoon with a guy that had a white first run "wings" rival. His white one was very flexible (like Gateway SSSS) and had a decent dome, especially compared to all the other flat to flatish rivals I've held. He also had a yellow that was stiff plastic with a moderate dome that he said the stability fell between his white one and his flat, stiff, and most stable charcoal. All my blue ones are stiff, flat, and do not flip unless there's a headwind.

What color is yours, how big is the dome, and is it stiff?

JR wrote:I don't know how CE QJLS flies because we don't have CE here. I've only seen CE Eagle with one player here.

I don't think you're missing much flight wise its just that the plastic has excellent grip and is very durable.

Very light yellow to natural white pearly winged stamp flattish dome ok PLH that does not seem to droop down stiff plastic.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.