Same here, my 2.5 in Honors courses at Catholic school, literally gave me a 5 month jump in public school, so I could graduate in December. In Catholic school, a class of 30 had 30 books. In Public, it was 10 books for 40 kids.

I had Dominicans and they were some pretty confused people. They knew how to educate very well and were fine people, but past that they sort of were like extinct volcanoes that had no idea how to deal with a world where there were no longer any Latin masses and the Pope had become a rock star. But yeah, I had a similar jump transitioning to public high school, the Catholics know how to educate. What they still haven't figured out is how to keep out corruption from their ranks or at least hide it better like the other denominations do.

[/size]I had Dominicans and they were some pretty confused people. They knew how to educate very well and were fine people, but past that they sort of were like extinct volcanoes that had no idea how to deal with a world where there were no longer any Latin masses and the Pope had become a rock star. But yeah, I had a similar jump transitioning to public high school, the Catholics know how to educate. What they still haven't figured out is how to keep out corruption from their ranks or at least hide it better like the other denominations do.

We had some Liberaton Theology sorts who put Oscar Romero nearly in the Holy Trinity. If I'd gone to that school in 1981 instead of 1991, I'm sure we would have been force fed Sandinista material. But being that 50-60% of the student body were Irish, basically writing any paean to dead Republican(Ulster's, not the GOP ) got you an "A". So, that made some courses relatively easy.

Yeah, christianity has taken over the "higher power" aspect of AA. I guess I was lucky. When I attended there was little of that and it was eschewed by attending members.

I thought it was the Scientologists? Or was that one of the Narcotics or Teen Anon groups? I never attended either but recall hearing something about it? I've always wondered, from at least what I've heard, is the smoking thing. Arguably smoking kills more people than booze or even narcotics yet it seems that "self groups" allow it. I had a cousin in rehab and he said they all smoked in there is supposed "locked in" facility trying to curb addiction(s.)

In my (overchurched) neighborhood, I think there's at least 3-4 AA programs that have their meetings at the church/hall belonging to the church. That in itself...

Best part of AA in a neighborhood of loudmouths? On crowded streets you hear, "Hey, Sully. You goin' the meeting, tonight?" So much for the Anonymous part.

That and people calling the police and even testifying for what is said at the "anonymous" meetings. People think there is some actual legal privledge protection there, but there isn't.

I think, though I've never gone, that churches etc allow them to meet there for free and that likely explains why meeting are held there. And smoking isn't allowed at schools or libraries which is about the only other place people can hold some type of group meeting for free or at a nominal cost.

Hah, reminds me of my high school health teacher. She'd make us do these dumb "quizzes" that were "totally confidential" and then ask what our scores were.

Come to think of it, she was one of these SJW types. Fuck her.

I haven't been in school for quite some time but recently saw a "take home" survey the district sent home with some kids with report card. It was a "voluntary" for parents to fill out and asked about drug, alcohol, guns, and other such things. I think they also, depending on district, give "anonymous" surveys to the children, even in elementary school, about such things like sex, guns in home, drugs, alcohol, etc.Friend joked that if he didn't return the "voluntary" survey CPS would probably come: "what are you trying to hide" etc.

I think, though I've never gone, that churches etc allow them to meet there for free and that likely explains why meeting are held there. And smoking isn't allowed at schools or libraries which is about the only other place people can hold some type of group meeting for free or at a nominal cost.

Union halls are a popular choice around here, especially since the meetings are scheduled "on the clock". Suddenly teetotalers become interested in attending. At the USPS, the afternoon shift(3:30p-12a) had theirs from 6-7 on Tues/Thurs. And then lunch hour was 7. Hell, 2 hours off almost made me go.

I thought it was the Scientologists? Or was that one of the Narcotics or Teen Anon groups? I never attended either but recall hearing something about it? I've always wondered, from at least what I've heard, is the smoking thing. Arguably smoking kills more people than booze or even narcotics yet it seems that "self groups" allow it. I had a cousin in rehab and he said they all smoked in there is supposed "locked in" facility trying to curb addiction(s.)

It's all about the programming. Smoking kills way more, but because of a fake social stigma on alcoholism and a bunch of people making money off of AA you get the current state of affairs. Its the same with everything; people fear grizzly bears and sharks despite the fact that cows kill 20 times more people each year than either of those animals. But we're told to fear sharks and bears, so we do. Yet we pet cows and dogs which are far more deadly when you look at the statistics.

It's all about the programming. Smoking kills way more, but because of a fake social stigma on alcoholism and a bunch of people making money off of AA you get the current state of affairs. Its the same with everything; people fear grizzly bears and sharks despite the fact that cows kill 20 times more people each year than either of those animals. But we're told to fear sharks and bears, so we do. Yet we pet cows and dogs which are far more deadly when you look at the statistics.

if one factors in heart disease, stroke, diabetes, obesity, etc. from eating those cow critters , you're looking at 100 times more lethal

Is that from a poor diet and lifestyle, or from a healthy and active person having moderate consumption of usda prime beef?

100 years ago folks died from some infectious disease they got from the family chicken...1918...50-100 million dead! back when there was only 1 billion folks around...and that flu killed the YOUNG! not the old...

100 years ago folks died from some infectious disease they got from the family chicken...1918...50-100 million dead! back when there was only 1 billion folks around...and that flu killed the YOUNG! not the old...

ok, don't smoke...tell me to make bacon illegal...F Off!

One wonders though...now that both the usual Hispanics, who at least have a tradition of doing so and likely some resistance to some flu types, and now increasing Hipsters are keeping chickens in their yards even in the city.....if the H1H1Hipster hits I'm not sure how many will be worried...less hipsters might be 'Darwin' by definition.

All kidding aside, although I've noticed Norry has tried a bit to hit on it (usually in some odd line about "no turkeys for Thanksgiving" to no avail) but I've get these industry news letters and the poultry stuff, and swine, is worrying.

I worry more about that stuff than Ebola, kill the food and economy is better than killing the people, politics-wise, for a bad nation/actor manipulation or just by nature (and our poultry/animal husbandry practices.) Worse if something like Scrapie, BSE, rabies etc manages to mutate/adapt to easier human transmission.....especially by food (nightmare) esp scrapie, bse, etc because those prions especially etc are hard to kill and we don't quite understand transmission, even amongst sheep etc.

It's all about the programming. Smoking kills way more, but because of a fake social stigma on alcoholism and a bunch of people making money off of AA you get the current state of affairs. Its the same with everything; people fear grizzly bears and sharks despite the fact that cows kill 20 times more people each year than either of those animals. But we're told to fear sharks and bears, so we do. Yet we pet cows and dogs which are far more deadly when you look at the statistics.

Alcohol-related healthcare problems are a serious issue today in the U.S., and worldwide. Unfortunately, current statistics don't adequately reflect the far-reaching physical, psychological, and societal negative consequences of excessive alcohol use, whereas it's clear to see the causal relationship between smoking and specific diseases.

Also, thanks to health education, smoking is on the decline, but alcohol-related ER visits are on the rise. On any given day, hospitals across the country are full of patients MTF ("metabolizing to freedom") Years ago communities had a "drunk tank" at the local jail (remember Andy Griffith?), but those days are gone due to liabilities. The current scenario is this: a bystander calls 911 for a person down, if they can't stand and walk they're brought to the ER to sober up. Further costs are incurred if a care provider suspects they might also be altered due to a head injury and orders a CT scan, or blood tests. This scenario is repeated thousands of times every day across the U.S. Don't forget the assaults, homicides, suicides, car crashes, domestic violence, etc. related to alcohol consumption--in addition to the various short and long term diseases.

BTW I'm not a teetotaler, but after decades working in the ER, I've come to see alcohol and drug abuse as our greatest healthcare challenge. The AA/NA model is far from ideal, but we have few treatment options.

Alcohol-related healthcare problems are a serious issue today in the U.S., and worldwide. Unfortunately, current statistics don't adequately reflect the far-reaching physical, psychological, and societal negative consequences of excessive alcohol use, whereas it's clear to see the causal relationship between smoking and specific diseases.

Also, thanks to health education, smoking is on the decline, but alcohol-related ER visits are on the rise. On any given day, hospitals across the country are full of patients MTF ("metabolizing to freedom") Years ago communities had a "drunk tank" at the local jail (remember Andy Griffith?), but those days are gone due to liabilities. The current scenario is this: a bystander calls 911 for a person down, if they can't stand and walk they're brought to the ER to sober up. Further costs are incurred if a care provider suspects they might also be altered due to a head injury and orders a CT scan, or blood tests. This scenario is repeated thousands of times every day across the U.S. Don't forget the assaults, homicides, suicides, car crashes, domestic violence, etc. related to alcohol consumption--in addition to the various short and long term diseases.

BTW I'm not a teetotaler, but after decades working in the ER, I've come to see alcohol and drug abuse as our greatest healthcare challenge. The AA/NA model is far from ideal, but we have few treatment options.

To add, there is little money in AA. At least at the meeting level. There are no costs to attend, and any money collected is for keeping the coffee flowing. I was the person that managed the donations to buy coffee... which actually meant I had to buy the coffee with mostly my money.

Alcohol-related healthcare problems are a serious issue today in the U.S., and worldwide. Unfortunately, current statistics don't adequately reflect the far-reaching physical, psychological, and societal negative consequences of excessive alcohol use, whereas it's clear to see the causal relationship between smoking and specific diseases.

Also, thanks to health education, smoking is on the decline, but alcohol-related ER visits are on the rise. On any given day, hospitals across the country are full of patients MTF ("metabolizing to freedom") Years ago communities had a "drunk tank" at the local jail (remember Andy Griffith?), but those days are gone due to liabilities. The current scenario is this: a bystander calls 911 for a person down, if they can't stand and walk they're brought to the ER to sober up. Further costs are incurred if a care provider suspects they might also be altered due to a head injury and orders a CT scan, or blood tests. This scenario is repeated thousands of times every day across the U.S. Don't forget the assaults, homicides, suicides, car crashes, domestic violence, etc. related to alcohol consumption--in addition to the various short and long term diseases.

BTW I'm not a teetotaler, but after decades working in the ER, I've come to see alcohol and drug abuse as our greatest healthcare challenge. The AA/NA model is far from ideal, but we have few treatment options.

Several cities are revisiting the idea, in larger form than the Mayberry Jail, but face opposition from, as you mention, legal liabilities (what happens if someone ODs, fights, sexual assaults, etc,) and also "moral outrage" (why let them get off Scot-free, spend money on schools instead, etc.)

I was agnostic by 8th grade and never looked back. Oddly though, I consulted one of the priests when I was questioning everything and when I asked "Do you really think there is a God?" he looked at me and said "Kid, I haven't a clue".

I should point out though that my eduction there was actually pretty good. I was miles ahead of public school when I switched to a public high school.

At least your priest gave you an honest answer. When I started losing my faith around 9th grade- I asked my theology teacher, a priest, why I had to believe what he was teaching- he got pissed, put his hands on his hips, looked down on me, and said, "Because I'm a theologian!!!" Big whoop!, I thought. I guess that was the best he could do. From then on it was downhill for me and religion and that class.

11 years of Catholic School pushed me into agnosticism/atheism and joiners/followers are just that. And since we never heard from Pascal again...

Some people have claimed that Pascal was joking about his 'wager'; and maybe that's true because it doesn't make much sense otherwise. If you believe in an all-powerful, all knowing god, do you expect him to be such a rube to fall for your little ruse?

At least your priest gave you an honest answer. When I started losing my faith around 9th grade- I asked my theology teacher, a priest, why I had to believe what he was teaching- he got pissed, put his hands on his hips, looked down on me, and said, "Because I'm a theologian!!!" Big whoop!, I thought. I guess that was the best he could do. From then on it was downhill for me and religion and that class.

They can never offer any evidence for it. When pressed for some concrete reason to believe they will usually just end up talking about it being a matter of Faith. That's if they're smart. If they are stupid they will say something like, 'well, you can't prove that it's not true either', which is to more or less throw up your hands and admit defeat right there.

I don't know whether Art would be interested in having someone like Richard Dawkins for a guest. He did interview that 'god part of the brain' guy on Dark Matter (forget the name), so presumably these sorts of questions interest him.

They can never offer any evidence for it. When pressed for some concrete reason to believe they will usually just end up talking about it being a matter of Faith. That's if they're smart. If they are stupid they will say something like, 'well, you can't prove that it's not true either', which is to more or less throw up your hands and admit defeat right there.

I don't know whether Art would be interested in having someone like Richard Dawkins for a guest. He did interview that 'god part of the brain' guy on Dark Matter (forget the name), so presumably these sorts of questions interest him.

I agree with all who say "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

I would really enjoy a show like that and Art would be a capable host. I've been a fan of Dawkins, but I truly miss Christopher Hitchens. I'm not so receptive to Sam Harris- does he still do C2C shows? He seems too new agey to me.

I agree with all who say "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

I would really enjoy a show like that and Art would be a capable host. I've been a fan of Dawkins, but I truly miss Christopher Hitchens. I'm not so receptive to Sam Harris- does he still do C2C shows? He seems too new agey to me.

I love Hitchens, and would recommend his book Hitch-22 if you haven't read it. All those you quoted have their respective strengths. Hitch is just such an amusing talker and writer that he will always be my favourite. Harris can be a bit dry, and Dawkins (at his worst) can occasionally come across as the clever schoolboy who you want to hit with a ruler. How can you dislike someone like Hitch, when he was asked what his favourite drink was. His reply: 'Johnny Walker Black Label - breakfast of champions'.

I love Hitchens, and would recommend his book Hitch-22 if you haven't read it. All those you quoted have their respective strengths. Hitch is just such an amusing talker and writer that he will always be my favourite. Harris can be a bit dry, and Dawkins (at his worst) can occasionally come across as the clever schoolboy who you want to hit with a ruler. How can you dislike someone like Hitch, when he was asked what his favourite drink was. His reply: 'Johnny Walker Black Label - breakfast of champions'.

Thank you for recommending his book. I also like Daniel Dennett- I loaned out one of his books before reading it and never got it back- I'll have a few titles to search for.

Are you familiar with Pat Condell? He has some funny videos on Youtube- good for a laugh, but I'm afraid he's going more political now.

Alcohol-related healthcare problems are a serious issue today in the U.S., and worldwide. Unfortunately, current statistics don't adequately reflect the far-reaching physical, psychological, and societal negative consequences of excessive alcohol use, whereas it's clear to see the causal relationship between smoking and specific diseases.

Also, thanks to health education, smoking is on the decline, but alcohol-related ER visits are on the rise. On any given day, hospitals across the country are full of patients MTF ("metabolizing to freedom") Years ago communities had a "drunk tank" at the local jail (remember Andy Griffith?), but those days are gone due to liabilities. The current scenario is this: a bystander calls 911 for a person down, if they can't stand and walk they're brought to the ER to sober up. Further costs are incurred if a care provider suspects they might also be altered due to a head injury and orders a CT scan, or blood tests. This scenario is repeated thousands of times every day across the U.S. Don't forget the assaults, homicides, suicides, car crashes, domestic violence, etc. related to alcohol consumption--in addition to the various short and long term diseases.

BTW I'm not a teetotaler, but after decades working in the ER, I've come to see alcohol and drug abuse as our greatest healthcare challenge. The AA/NA model is far from ideal, but we have few treatment options.

I have a sort of fatalistic look on surviving as long as one possibly can after 39 years of putting elderly relatives in the grave. The longer you live, the better the chance of horrific age-related disease. 90% of people would not want to live to 80 if they could see their own future. The healthier one lives their life, the worse it is as age sets in. That rice cake and gym subscription may ultimately mean 20 extra years. That's fine, unless you develop alzheimers along the way, in which case it's 20 years in a nursing home soiling diapers and not recognizing anyone.

For whatever reason we've succumbed to a ton of weird illusions in society. We think of living to old age as this sort of finish line that we should strive for. In fact it's actually a lottery with really bad odds. Yeah, you might be okay at 85, but chances are you won't be. So we shouldn't smoke or drink so we can play that lottery. Yet we're totally okay with the existence and use of Harley Davidsons. That's Americana, something you save up and buy and enjoy -- despite the fact that they maim and kill shitloads of people.

Risk and health is really all about socially acceptable death and unacceptable death. Get lung cancer at 55 and people will mourn and talk about how you could have changed the outcome by quitting smoking. Dump your motorcycle at 55 and scrape your cranium off and people will mourn and talk about how you died doing what you enjoy. There are many others. What do you think the health risk of joining the army is? How about joining the police force? Becoming a gas station clerk? Get shot in the police force and you're a hero because you took a dangerous job. Get shot in a gas station, even though it's an even more dangerous job, and you're just a casualty. It's all about social illusion.

People should drink, smoke, eat whatever they enjoy and not worry about it.

To add, there is little money in AA. At least at the meeting level. There are no costs to attend, and any money collected is for keeping the coffee flowing. I was the person that managed the donations to buy coffee... which actually meant I had to buy the coffee with mostly my money.

I should point out ahead of time that I'm not saying that a person with an alcohol problem shouldn't confront it if it's adversely affecting their life. They should. But I've also known functional alcoholics that went through tons of needless inflated family drama and then on to AA and did all the stuff they thought they were supposed to do only to drop dead in the process from some unrelated horror. They'd have been better off just enjoying their evening drinks.