Until the girl who was catfishing and Tuiasosopo sit down and share how they pulled off this time consuming hoax, I don't buy it. Pranking is one thing, but the pure number of hours this faker would have had to put into this thing is staggering and pretty much unbelievable.

There are many places the lie really breaks down, but the one that gets me is where in the interview with Schaap Manti says it never occurred to him to go visit the girl in the hospital after her supposed car accident or bout with cancer.

You can't sell the innocent, all-in puppy love as how you got fooled and then be the guy who doesn't make the grand romantic gesture to get to the sick girl at all costs.

I'm not following this at all, but I have found a lot of the responses here fascinating. Is it really so far fetched that someone was working on conning this future millionaire into believing that he was in love with this woman?

I know what my first thought was when I heard this, but since this isn't in the Shack I won't go into it.

pehawk wrote:Shark, you're killing me with giving this guy ANY wiggle room. He was in on it, period.

I like to give people a different view on things. I don't mind stepping out of my comfort zone and saying something I may not even believe to get people to think through all angles. I like to consider myself a problem solver. If I can take a car apart and put it back together, or rebuild a broken laptop with parts from 3 or 4 computers, then I can certainly approach a situation in somebody's life and see it from different angles. I'm a teacher, and I'm also an alpha and beta tester. So it is the way I think. I try to see things from as many possible viewpoints as I can. That way I can figure out where somebody is struggling with a concept and figure out how they are thinking and teach them how to do it. It is also how I can think through how somebody might use a piece of software or hardware and come up with issues that I personally wouldn't come up with. I can find bugs like crazy, by being able to change mindsets.

I don't see it as a weakness. I think it's a good way to approach life, so I do so.

I think you are both right. At least where I grew up, the "good" mormons were a lot like what T-Sizzle describes. The "Jack" Mormons tended to be more... free spirited. My neighbors were classic Jack Mormons. They were GREAT people, I loved being around them, then one day the parents swapped spouses with a police officer couple (by amazing coincidence) and when they found out, the mom brought out a hand gun and shot at her husband as he escaped for his life. The same husband would die in an unrelated car accident a month later. It was extremely bizarre- it was straight out of a hollywood movie.

fwiw.... when you are Mormon you are forced to do all those things (w/ the exception of GPA). Volunteer work, boy scouts, etc. If you don't do it you are looked at as a TOTAL outsider, bad kid, bad parents, and outcast.

signed, someone who was raised Mormon.[/quote]

Ummm 100% false.

Signed someone who was raised a Mormon, still is a Mormon, has Mormon kids, and am a 5th generation Mormon. I got a bad GPA, wasn't in scouts, got kicked out of high school, never did volunteer work, and never had a problem with friends, parents, getting a job, getting into college, etc.

I think every culture and community has their own standards for what they expect. Mormons are just normal people. There are no FORCED anything. Just as in all cultures, there are norms and mores that are common and TYPICAL, but there is no coercement to do anything. I always find it hilarious when people who are so "well versed" in Mormonism talk about the "requirement" to go on a mission. It's 100% optional. Only about half go. They pay their own way. Nobody is required. It isn't a bad thing as I think a lot of kids grow up a lot when they go. But not going has no impact on your standing in the church. I didn't go. I am still given all of the rights and privileges of every other Mormon, including my brothers who served missions.

There is cultural pressure in every culture. I have yet to find a requirement though. Suggestions? Sure. Lots of things are suggested for people's own benefit in each culture and religion. That is how the religion sees them anyway. I've never seen anybody get punished in any way, shape or form for the things you mention above. If you felt pressure to do good in your life, then that's pretty much par for the course in EVERY religion.[/quote][/quote]

I guess we will have to disagree. I moved around a lot up and down the west coast and that was my experience. It's one of the main reasons I will never be going to church again. Every ward I was in growing up was that way. Not sure where you live but in southern California and Washington I found it that way.

SharkHawk wrote:He said "required". Nothing is required of anybody. All cultures have expectations, and the ones he described are typical American values. It has nothing to do with Mormonism.

Sorry, required was the wrong word. But if you don't you are looked at as an outcast. If you don't do what the group does they think something is wrong with you and gossip begins. I have had it happen to me in multiple wards.

It has nothing to do with Mormonism ... It has everything to do with fitting in with your piers. I don't know anyone who would choose to be an outcast. So I felt required. Maybe you can't see it because you do fit in. If I didn't spend 18 years being judged I may have a positive outlook. I do agree it's not a church issue...it's a people issue.

Last edited by ImTheScientist on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

That's where I disagree. I live in Utah County, which is the most Mormon place on earth. I grew up for the first big chunk of my life in Seattle, where I was always active in the church and did all of those things. I moved to Utah and didn't. I am treated just great here and have ever since I got here in junior high and quit scouts, stopped going to the dumb service projects and everything else. I was never treated as an outcast by my ward. In fact, if anything, they seemed to be nicer to me as they were trying to win me over.

I think it all depends on the situation though. You're right... nobody knows what we are talking about, but some wards just really suck and are full of judgmental pricks. They tend to end up in the same neighborhoods and then you end up getting treated like garbage. I just think that's human nature though. It's sad when it gets tied to religion, because that's not a church issue, that's a people are dickheads in general issue. No matter what, about half the people are cool, about half are buttholes. Religion doesn't change those numbers.

She's honest. I wouldn't hesitate to believe anything she says. Good rep. Good person. Has ZERO reason to lie.

Shark, I am not a criminal investigator but even I recognize the obvious conflicting statements that Te'o has made. Te'o had previously claimed meeting with her in person, and even after the news of the hoax broke he said he talked to her on the phone. Then you have the Notre Dame teammates saying they knew it was a hoax and Te'o was just having fun with it. Even if this was an extremely elaborate hoax by Tuiasasopo- setting up an actress to meet and speak with Te'o, it wouldn't have held up long because Te'o would have known the girl who's picture is on facebook was a different person. Even without the teammate confession, there is a lot of conflicting evidence that pokes holes in Te'o's claims.

Then you also have the "changing story" aspect of this, with people claiming that Kekua really did exist, etc. There is a whole lot of lying going on. If Kekua is fake and Te'o innocent, then it means Te'o is the only person not lying while the ND teammates, the guy from the Arizona Cardinals, and family members of Te'o are all lying.

I think Occam's razor applies. The simplest explanation is simply that Te'o was in on this lie, and now more people are lying to help cover his tracks and protect him.

So who is on the phone with Te'o with for hours and hours while "Kekua" is in the hospital with Leukemia? Tuiasasopo is male. He'd need to bring in a girl to take many, many hours out of her life to complete this deception. Which would also mean she'd need to be a talented actress and never break character. And yet, this accomplice has never come up in Te'o's story. Why is that? Why haven't we heard who this girl was? Why would she do it? Even Te'o's cover story is yet incomplete because he ignores this critical detail. If I was Catfished and spent hours and hours talking to a girl on the phone, my VERY FIRST reaction would be, "who the hell was that girl I was talking to?!"

And moreover, even if Te'o really was the victim, he still lied about it for a 3 week period in December. There is just no escaping the fact that Te'o is a liar.

No disrespect Rob, but I couldn't disagree more. If anything, this whole situation highlights how the media is often too scared to ask tough follow up questions. I get why- they don't want a potential defamation suit on their hands. But because of that timidity, they are playing perfectly into Te'o's hands.

Unfortunately for Te'o, NFL GMs will be far more pointed in their questioning. This story isn't going away any time soon.

Te'o said in his interview with ESPN today there are three people involved - two males and a female. I don't have a problem believing there was a female accomplice involved here, who was willing to tag Te'o along for the phone calls. I don't see why she'd have to be a talented actress either. She'd just have to play along. I don't find that part bizarre at all. Not as bizarre as the concept Te'o is just making all of this up because he decided a few weeks ago that it'd be a great idea to invent a fake dead girlfriend on the off chance it would lead to an emotional surge to the National Championship.

And yes he lied about it. He is a liar. But I believe that was to try and foolishly cover up what is an unbelievably embarrassing situation. He got in over his head and made a pretty retarded situation even worse.

What is the motive for those pranksters? As Scott points out, this is a massive amount of time and effort, over years. The "extortion" angle is stretching it, IMO.

Why would his own teammate(s) say he knew? Does that mean his teammate(s) are lying and just hate him?

What about the stories that were written that said Te'o and Kekua met in person in 2009 at Stanford? Even on the chance that Te'o did not seed those stories, it seems hard to believe that he wasn't aware of them.

He did not need to lie after December 6th. But he did, and it makes it harder to believe he's being completely honest.

And we still don't know who this actress girl is. Could be another creation of Te'o or Tuiasasopo. Until I get a name of a real person and a confession from her, I'm not buying it.

I was initially on Te'o's side on this. But as the details roll in it became more evident that his story isn't holding up. The fake GF thing is silly, it's the lying and persistent cover up lying that bothers me. The teammate aspect doesn't help things either.

Last edited by kearly on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Yes, he already said his cousin was "the girl" that was in on it. For all I know they were going to make him give them money or expose his stupidity and then realized that means serious jail time if caught and made up the leukemia stuff to get out of it. People have online relationships all the time. The reason he lied about her being real? He was embarrassed. I'm not a huge Manti Te'o supporter when it comes to his brain power, and have said so for many months. He is kind of a major dumbass. That's why I am not surprised he is in a bad situation, but people who are coming out of the woodwork now with viable explanations are NOT dumbasses and are people that I'd put a great deal of trust in. So I am not ready to say Te'o was in on it. Upon more reflection, I don't honestly think Manti is anywhere near smart enough to pull off a stunt for publicity and exposure, because literally the guy is a pretty big moron. He's also not the most honest guy on earth, so I can see him lying about a relationship... meaning claiming they had met and such because if he told the truth his teammates and others would laugh at him for having an "online girlfriend" and not hooking up with the ladies, which I am sure were plentiful.

Even though I think Manti is semi-stupid and not always honest, I also feel his commitment to his religion is strong, and that is where the lying kind of makes sense to me and helps hold his story up.... because I can see how he'd not want to "break church rules" and it is easy to get out of peer pressure situations if you always have a girlfriend that is in California and you don't get to see her until after the season. Again.... I've taken a few different approaches here for several reasons. I want to see how this plays out, and I'm not hedging my bets by going with every possibility. I am more interested in how it plays out and am playing devil's advocate in some respects, but when somebody who I find unimpeachable like Tessi Tolutau speaks out about it and her story seems to corroborate that Manti had no idea, then I start to go "hmmmm.... maybe there really is something there that clears him of any wrongdoing aside from being a chowderhead."

This whole thing just reeks of bullshit. I guess for now there are so many liars out there that it's worth withholding judgement for a long while until we learn more.

And FWIW, lying is a skill, much like acting. It is not an IQ thing (there are many brilliant people who can't lie for shit). The reason I'm a terrible liar is because my emotions betray me. I also can't act for shit when on stage. Good lying takes a lot of planning and thought, but given the holes that still exist in this story, and how the details rolled out progressively instead of immediately, I'm more convinced of Te'o's acting than his planning.

Last edited by kearly on Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

kearly wrote:What is the motive for those pranksters? As Scott points out, this is a massive amount of time and effort, over years.

Why would his own teammate(s) say he knew? Does that mean his teammate(s) are lying and just hate him?

What about the stories that were written that said Te'o and Kekua met in person in 2009 at Stanford? Even on the chance that Te'o did not seed those stories, it seems hard to believe that he wasn't aware of them.

He did not need to lie after December 6th. But he did, and it makes it harder to believe he's being completely honest.

And we still don't know who this actress girl is. Could be another creation of Te'o's. Until I get a name of a real person and a confession from her, I'm not buying it.

I was initially on Te'o's side on this. But as the details roll in it became more evident that his story isn't holding up. The fake GF thing is silly, it's the lying and persistent cover up lying that bothers me. The teammate aspect doesn't help things either.

What is the motive for the guy who sends me an email every week about Matt Barkley? The same guy who started a twitter account under the name 'Janet' to send me abusive messages? The same guy who sends abuse to the blog non stop, long winded rants because he doesn't rate Matt Barkley even though he knows I just delete them straight away and nobody ever reads them? He's wasted literally hours of his life over the last 18 months doing that. Or the different person who sent me a tweet of a picture of a note pad saying he wanted to kill me and my family because I commentated on a game his team were beaten in?

Some people take satisfaction is making others truly miserable. I'm willing to guess this was the same situation. More so than Te'o getting some form of 'benefit' by concocting a hoax.

His team mates said he was a good actor and he knew it was a hoax but continued to lie. Nobody is disputing that he's lied. He did. He kept the story going even when he knew it was a hoax. And I think he lied in a piss poor attempt to save face.

I've addressed the stories of him saying he'd met the girl in the piece. There's a complete stigma attached to meeting people online. I think he's come up with some royal bull shit to try and make it seem like he's not some weirdo who falls in love with people he meets on twitter and never has face to face interaction with. Not exactly a major stretch is it?

He did not need to lie after December 6th. He should've beat the media to the punch, revealed the hoax and taken the role of the victim. Instead he tried to save face. Big mistake. I can see why he did it, because either way it's truly horrendously embarrassing. But it doesn't mean he was 'in on it'.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:What is the motive for the guy who sends me an email every week about Matt Barkley? The same guy who started a twitter account under the name 'Janet' to send me abusive messages? The same guy who sends abuse to the blog non stop, long winded rants because he doesn't rate Matt Barkley even though he knows I just delete them straight away and nobody ever reads them? He's wasted literally hours of his life over the last 18 months doing that. Or the different person who sent me a tweet of a picture of a note pad saying he wanted to kill me and my family because I commentated on a game his team were beaten in?

Some people take satisfaction is making others truly miserable. I'm willing to guess this was the same situation. More so than Te'o getting some form of 'benefit' by concocting a hoax.

Yes, but the difference is that something you did, fair or not, pissed those people off before they trolled you. And what they did to you is far less prolonged, far less cruel, and far less coordinated. I could maybe buy this if it was just one person, but bringing in a girl and supposedly a 3rd person do this? The girl was allegedly on the phone with Te'o for many hours a night. What is her motivation?

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:I've addressed the stories of him saying he'd met the girl in the piece. There's a complete stigma attached to meeting people online. I think he's come up with some royal bull shit to try and make it seem like he's not some weirdo who falls in love with people he meets on twitter and never has face to face interaction with. Not exactly a major stretch is it?

I actually agree with you here. In a "Te'o is innocent" scenario it would make sense that he might have let that lie go out of external pressure, since it was convenient for what he thought was a real person that he hadn't met with yet. But again, this is another lie charged against Te'o. It's hard to defend a liar with the "he told lies about other things" defense.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:His team mates said he was a good actor and he knew it was a hoax but continued to lie. Nobody is disputing that he's lied. He did. He kept the story going even when he knew it was a hoax. And I think he lied in a piss poor attempt to save face.

His teammates said he was lying before Dec. 6th. IIRC, they specifically referenced the September incident. Te'o would later go on to give an emotional (and very convincing) performance on Jim Rome, when he knew it wasn't true. If you believe the teammates, this proves that Te'o is a very talented liar. Even if Te'o started out a victim, he took the deception to a new level anyway and milked it for all it was worth. That makes me think he was always in on it. Let's not forget that this guy nearly won the Heisman trophy, and his storyline played a huge role in that.

There is also the fact that the scammer was someone Te'o knew and was friends with. To me, the pieces fit together so much easier on the "Te'o was in on it" scenario.

Late Friday night release of Teo's confession. Screams PR spin machine. No footage of his interview. If he had nothing to hide, he wouldn't hide.

Dude can't even tell the truth about when he figured out it was a hoax. According to ND, he came to them Dec 26. He said he figured it out Dec 6. But yesterday he said he didn't know it was a hoax until this week.

Well... the girl supposedly requested Te'o keep the phone on while she slept. Come on Kip, it's not a big stretch to suggest she probably just left the phone in a quiet room while Manti Te'o sat there, awake, thinking he was tending to a sick girlfriend.

I'll say it again. What is anyone's motivation to do ANYTHING? I'm willing to believe a supposed 'friend' of Te'o's orchestrated this ridiculous hoax that got out of hand (so out of hand, they killed off the GF, then brought her back to life). I'm willing to believe that a girl would be willing to get involved in a cruel hoax of a high profile football player. In the same way I'm willing to believe anyone can be pursuaded to do pretty much anything.

His team mates claim he was lying before Dec 6th? Yeah -- he was lying before Dec 6th. He was telling them he'd met the girl. Which he hadn't. She was an internet girlfriend. He also lied to his parents, friends. Whoever he was close to, he seemingly made up a load of bull shit to hide the fact he was doing something that socially is considered a bit pathetic. He'd fallen in love with a girl he'd never met on the internet. And in order to cover that up, he created a back story. And ran with it. I can understand why he would do that, even if I personally would never fall in love with someone on Twitter.

And while we're talking about motives... what exactly is Te'o's motive here for being in on the hoax? To win a Heisman? Beat Michigan State? Achieve an unbeaten season? That to me is a hundred times more ridiculous than two guys and a girl deciding they're going to play a cruel, heartless prank on a guy who's a bit simple.

So he had an extensive "relationship" with a person he never met and who ultimately passed away in a tragic matter, only two have a brand new relationship with a new girl weeks after the supposed love of his life tragically passed away?

Your girl is sick but you don't think for one minute to go visit her? You have family and friends in Cali, if you couldn't make the trip, you wouldn't send someone to check on her? Multiple cancelled visits when you're both in Hawaii...blank screen everytime you try to Skype? But you can Skype your parents perfectly fine?

-The Glove- wrote:Your girl is sick but you don't think for one minute to go visit her? You have family and friends in Cali, if you couldn't make the trip, you wouldn't send someone to check on her? Multiple cancelled visits when you're both in Hawaii...blank screen everytime you try to Skype? But you can Skype your parents perfectly fine?

C'mon...the guy knew what the deal was.

Yeah he did this to beat Michigan State...

He formed a relationship based on the internet and phone calls. He tried to meet her, she didn't show up. But he kept it going. Why do people think... after all that... he would accept it if she requested he didn't try to visit? Even if she was ill?

He's a gullible fool but FFS... why on earth do people think he was 'in' on this hoax? What benefit does he get out of that??? To help go unbeatean??? It's a ridiculous conspiracy theory. A completely outrageous suggestion that is a lot more bizarre than the idea that this guy is just very immature when it comes to relationships with the opposite sex, completely gullible and overly trusting, incredibly naive and in an attempt to cover up a very embarrassing situation, he lied through his teeth.

pinksheets wrote:I'm not going to believe he was that broken up by some girl he never met who we tweeted with supposedly dying.

Why?

Is it impossible that someone could 'fall in love' with someone via conversations on the internet or on the phone?

I wouldn't ever do it. You wouldn't do it. There are probably countless who would in this world though.

Yes, it is impossible for a guy like him. He could walk anywhere on campus and point out a girl and get laid. Why would he have to go online for love? Reminds me of the time I was at a club in Seattle, and a limo pulled up. Brett Boone stepped out, then pointed to two random girls standing in line, and then they all drove off in his limo.

CPHawk wrote:Yes, it is impossible for a guy like him. He could walk anywhere on campus and point out a girl and get laid. Why would he have to go online for love? Reminds me of the time I was at a club in Seattle, and a limo pulled up. Brett Boone stepped out, then pointed to two random girls standing in line, and then they all drove off in his limo.

FYI - For those saying Te'o should have dropped everything and gone to California... I have a bit of a newsflash for you. The Te'o family is not rich. In fact, they are quite poor. The entire family has very little money, this was one reason his offer was rescinded by BYU. They felt that he only took his visit here for a free trip to the mainland to see his cousins, and didn't take his recruiting visit seriously.

The level of poverty of many Mormon families in the islands is very well known, and I don't think you guys fully understand how little money these families have. The cost of living is incredibly high, and many of the families took every penny they could muster and moved to Hawai'i from Samoa, Tonga, and Fiji in order to give their children a better chance at an education and success. They want them to go to college and such. That is why places like Utah and Missouri (yes, look it up) have such massively high populations of Islanders. It is because these places are cheap to live, have strong education systems, and now have vast networks of other Islanders to watch out for them and help them get established, get jobs, etc.

One example I can give you is a guy who played for the Hawks named Itula Mili. He grew up in Hawai'i and Norm Chow begged his parents to take out an insurance policy on Itula's NFL career. It would have been a couple of thousand dollars. They couldn't come up with the money. He was a "lock" to be a first round pick, and was told so by multiple GM's and the NFL. Chow begged them to do it and they finally said they just couldn't and not to bring it up again. Itula was injured so horribly in the WAC championship game in Vegas that he almost lost his leg. It was so awful that he had every single ligament tear and was in a wheelchair for at least a month afterwards. No members of his family could even afford to come visit him. Luckily he had student insurance that paid for his surgery. My friend was engaged to him and I would see them at the mall and she was pushing him around so he could get out. Then he finally was walking. The Hawks drafted him in I believe the sixth round and he had a year to prepare to play. They saw it as a future risk worthy move.

His family was so poor that they literally lived in a shack. I'm not joking. Te'o isn't as bad off as the Mili's, but they aren't rich people. He can't hop a plane, and he isn't the type at this point in his life where he'd take a free plane ticket. He is known to be pretty shy as well, and I can imagine him hoping this girl was real, but not wanting to go find out she wasn't.

Why would that Tui kid do such a thing? Because people are creepy. I guess some of you have never had a stalker. I've had two. One is a situation I'm currently in. He starts his stuff all over again, and I just have to turn it over to the police. Why has he wasted literally hours upon hours of his life? Because he's a piece of shit that is going to rot in hell. That's why. But he still does it. We're going on 30 months straight and I'll get emails, texts, random drive-bys at my house (we finally moved). He'd throw specific things on my yard so I'd know he'd been on my property. It was a wonderful game for him. This is a guy that is an executive at a software company, one that you all use their software everyday..... I won't tell you which one but newsFLASH, you've all used it at some point while surfing the internet or SHOPping for PHOTOs. Yet he persists. He's mentally unstable. It's a fact. He won't let things go and let me live my life. The police know, so it isn't like I can show up and beat him to a pulp either, because they'd know it was me. I filed a report the first time he threatened to kill me and each subsequent time. Why do people do what they do? Because there are a lot of sociopaths out there.

I've heard people float the "Maybe Manti is gay?!!!" theory. I say "So what if he is?" But I also say, "So what if Tui was, and had a thing for Manti?" You never know what motivates some people. Could be a crush, could just be a creepy stalker.

SharkHawk wrote:FYI - For those saying Te'o should have dropped everything and gone to California... I have a bit of a newsflash for you. The Te'o family is not rich. In fact, they are quite poor. The entire family has very little money, this was one reason his offer was rescinded by BYU. They felt that he only took his visit here for a free trip to the mainland to see his cousins, and didn't take his recruiting visit seriously.

The level of poverty of many Mormon families in the islands is very well known, and I don't think you guys fully understand how little money these families have. The cost of living is incredibly high, and many of the families took every penny they could muster and moved to Hawai'i from Samoa, Tonga, and Fiji in order to give their children a better chance at an education and success. They want them to go to college and such. That is why places like Utah and Missouri (yes, look it up) have such massively high populations of Islanders. It is because these places are cheap to live, have strong education systems, and now have vast networks of other Islanders to watch out for them and help them get established, get jobs, etc.

One example I can give you is a guy who played for the Hawks named Itula Mili. He grew up in Hawai'i and Norm Chow begged his parents to take out an insurance policy on Itula's NFL career. It would have been a couple of thousand dollars. They couldn't come up with the money. He was a "lock" to be a first round pick, and was told so by multiple GM's and the NFL. Chow begged them to do it and they finally said they just couldn't and not to bring it up again. Itula was injured so horribly in the WAC championship game in Vegas that he almost lost his leg. It was so awful that he had every single ligament tear and was in a wheelchair for at least a month afterwards. No members of his family could even afford to come visit him. Luckily he had student insurance that paid for his surgery. My friend was engaged to him and I would see them at the mall and she was pushing him around so he could get out. Then he finally was walking. The Hawks drafted him in I believe the sixth round and he had a year to prepare to play. They saw it as a future risk worthy move.

His family was so poor that they literally lived in a shack. I'm not joking. Te'o isn't as bad off as the Mili's, but they aren't rich people. He can't hop a plane, and he isn't the type at this point in his life where he'd take a free plane ticket. He is known to be pretty shy as well, and I can imagine him hoping this girl was real, but not wanting to go find out she wasn't.

Why would that Tui kid do such a thing? Because people are creepy. I guess some of you have never had a stalker. I've had two. One is a situation I'm currently in. He starts his stuff all over again, and I just have to turn it over to the police. Why has he wasted literally hours upon hours of his life? Because he's a piece of shit that is going to rot in hell. That's why. But he still does it. We're going on 30 months straight and I'll get emails, texts, random drive-bys at my house (we finally moved). He'd throw specific things on my yard so I'd know he'd been on my property. It was a wonderful game for him. This is a guy that is an executive at a software company, one that you all use their software everyday..... I won't tell you which one but newsFLASH, you've all used it at some point while surfing the internet or SHOPping for PHOTOs. Yet he persists. He's mentally unstable. It's a fact. He won't let things go and let me live my life. The police know, so it isn't like I can show up and beat him to a pulp either, because they'd know it was me. I filed a report the first time he threatened to kill me and each subsequent time. Why do people do what they do? Because there are a lot of sociopaths out there.

I've heard people float the "Maybe Manti is gay?!!!" theory. I say "So what if he is?" But I also say, "So what if Tui was, and had a thing for Manti?" You never know what motivates some people. Could be a crush, could just be a creepy stalker.

I didn't say he should drop everything and go to California. He took trips back home to Hawaii did he not? Does he not have family and friends in Cali? Didn't read the rest...cause good lord, wall of text.

CPHawk wrote:Yes, it is impossible for a guy like him. He could walk anywhere on campus and point out a girl and get laid. Why would he have to go online for love? Reminds me of the time I was at a club in Seattle, and a limo pulled up. Brett Boone stepped out, then pointed to two random girls standing in line, and then they all drove off in his limo.

It's impossible then.

Because every football player is like Brett Boone.

That makes this 'impossible'.

He's the best player on the ND team. He is going to be a millionaire very soon, so meeting girls isn't hard for him. In fact, if he's this gullible (which I don't believe) then some girl, who is a 10, with $ in her eyes would have scammed him into marriage already.

English kind of HAS to take this line. He puts a lot of effort and time into his blog, the type of efforts usually married to a goal of being paid, someday. Is disadvantageous for him NOT to give the benefit of the doubt. Agents, players, other media, sources, etc.

That's not meant to be a shot, in any way.

It's just, sorry, I CANT believe you honestly cant see this dude's full of shit, English. You border on arrogance at times, maybe defensive and snarky too. But, you're not this dumb. You can say whatever you like, I wont ever believe its anything other than the aforementioned.

SharkHawk wrote:FYI - For those saying Te'o should have dropped everything and gone to California... I have a bit of a newsflash for you. The Te'o family is not rich. In fact, they are quite poor. The entire family has very little money, this was one reason his offer was rescinded by BYU. They felt that he only took his visit here for a free trip to the mainland to see his cousins, and didn't take his recruiting visit seriously.

The level of poverty of many Mormon families in the islands is very well known, and I don't think you guys fully understand how little money these families have. The cost of living is incredibly high, and many of the families took every penny they could muster and moved to Hawai'i from Samoa, Tonga, and Fiji in order to give their children a better chance at an education and success. They want them to go to college and such. That is why places like Utah and Missouri (yes, look it up) have such massively high populations of Islanders. It is because these places are cheap to live, have strong education systems, and now have vast networks of other Islanders to watch out for them and help them get established, get jobs, etc.

One example I can give you is a guy who played for the Hawks named Itula Mili. He grew up in Hawai'i and Norm Chow begged his parents to take out an insurance policy on Itula's NFL career. It would have been a couple of thousand dollars. They couldn't come up with the money. He was a "lock" to be a first round pick, and was told so by multiple GM's and the NFL. Chow begged them to do it and they finally said they just couldn't and not to bring it up again. Itula was injured so horribly in the WAC championship game in Vegas that he almost lost his leg. It was so awful that he had every single ligament tear and was in a wheelchair for at least a month afterwards. No members of his family could even afford to come visit him. Luckily he had student insurance that paid for his surgery. My friend was engaged to him and I would see them at the mall and she was pushing him around so he could get out. Then he finally was walking. The Hawks drafted him in I believe the sixth round and he had a year to prepare to play. They saw it as a future risk worthy move.

His family was so poor that they literally lived in a shack. I'm not joking. Te'o isn't as bad off as the Mili's, but they aren't rich people. He can't hop a plane, and he isn't the type at this point in his life where he'd take a free plane ticket. He is known to be pretty shy as well, and I can imagine him hoping this girl was real, but not wanting to go find out she wasn't.

Why would that Tui kid do such a thing? Because people are creepy. I guess some of you have never had a stalker. I've had two. One is a situation I'm currently in. He starts his stuff all over again, and I just have to turn it over to the police. Why has he wasted literally hours upon hours of his life? Because he's a piece of shit that is going to rot in hell. That's why. But he still does it. We're going on 30 months straight and I'll get emails, texts, random drive-bys at my house (we finally moved). He'd throw specific things on my yard so I'd know he'd been on my property. It was a wonderful game for him. This is a guy that is an executive at a software company, one that you all use their software everyday..... I won't tell you which one but newsFLASH, you've all used it at some point while surfing the internet or SHOPping for PHOTOs. Yet he persists. He's mentally unstable. It's a fact. He won't let things go and let me live my life. The police know, so it isn't like I can show up and beat him to a pulp either, because they'd know it was me. I filed a report the first time he threatened to kill me and each subsequent time. Why do people do what they do? Because there are a lot of sociopaths out there.

I've heard people float the "Maybe Manti is gay?!!!" theory. I say "So what if he is?" But I also say, "So what if Tui was, and had a thing for Manti?" You never know what motivates some people. Could be a crush, could just be a creepy stalker.

I didn't say he should drop everything and go to California. He took trips back home to Hawaii did he not? Does he not have family and friends in Cali? Didn't read the rest...cause good lord, wall of text.

There is nothing better than somebody responding to your post by telling you that you wrote too much and they didn't actually read it. If you didn't read it, then why do you think I give a rat's ass if you think it's too long so you didn't bother to read my "wall of text"? Give me a break. So my writing a lot makes me look dumb and you feel a need to point out your superiority? Sorry if this is seen as me attacking the poster, but I see no point in posts like yours, as you've just said about mine. So I figure we're doing the same. I hope that wasn't too long for you. Probably was. My bad.

CPHawk wrote:He's the best player on the ND team. He is going to be a millionaire very soon, so meeting girls isn't hard for him. In fact, if he's this gullible (which I don't believe) then some girl, who is a 10, with $ in her eyes would have scammed him into marriage already.

So this is your argument then? He must be in on the hoax because he can shag whoever he wants? That's water tight.

pehawk wrote:English kind of HAS to take this line. He puts a lot of effort and time into his blog, the type of efforts usually married to a goal of being paid, someday. Is disadvantageous for him NOT to give the benefit of the doubt. Agents, players, other media, sources, etc.

That's not meant to be a shot, in any way.

It's just, sorry, I CANT believe you honestly cant see this dude's full of shit, English. You border on arrogance at times, maybe defensive and snarky too. But, you're not this dumb. You can say whatever you like, I wont ever believe its anything other than the aforementioned.

I have no ambition to be paid. I already have my dream job -- and it took me years to get there. I write the blog because I am obsessed with the Seahawks, love college football and am desperate to talk about both subjects with fellow like-minded folk. The day a British guy gets paid to talk about the draft or NFL will be the day an American guy gets to do my current job. It will never happen.

I write what I want.

I have never denied that he is full of shit. He's lied and lied and lied. But I believe he lied to cover up a very embarrassing situation -- initially that he was in love with someone he'd never met in person, only on the internet. And secondly, that he'd been scammed and looked like a complete idiot. I do not think he lied to win a national championship.

Honestly, there are two reasons why I do it. One, to indulge my unhealthy passion for the Seahawks (it's 4am here, and I'm talking on a Seahawks forum -- the 21-year-old version of me would be pissed off about that). Two, I want to do something that no other team gets. No other team has a SDB type site. And if the people who visit get a kick out of it, that's good enough for me.

Honestly, there are two reasons why I do it. One, to indulge my unhealthy passion for the Seahawks (it's 4am here, and I'm talking on a Seahawks forum -- the 21-year-old version of me would be pissed off about that). Two, I want to do something that no other team gets. No other team has a SDB type site. And if the people who visit get a kick out of it, that's good enough for me.

I believe you, but still feel this passion of yours has made your view a journalistic one.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Well... the girl supposedly requested Te'o keep the phone on while she slept. Come on Kip, it's not a big stretch to suggest she probably just left the phone in a quiet room while Manti Te'o sat there, awake, thinking he was tending to a sick girlfriend.

I'll say it again. What is anyone's motivation to do ANYTHING? I'm willing to believe a supposed 'friend' of Te'o's orchestrated this ridiculous hoax that got out of hand (so out of hand, they killed off the GF, then brought her back to life). I'm willing to believe that a girl would be willing to get involved in a cruel hoax of a high profile football player. In the same way I'm willing to believe anyone can be pursuaded to do pretty much anything.

His team mates claim he was lying before Dec 6th? Yeah -- he was lying before Dec 6th. He was telling them he'd met the girl. Which he hadn't. She was an internet girlfriend. He also lied to his parents, friends. Whoever he was close to, he seemingly made up a load of bull shit to hide the fact he was doing something that socially is considered a bit pathetic. He'd fallen in love with a girl he'd never met on the internet. And in order to cover that up, he created a back story. And ran with it. I can understand why he would do that, even if I personally would never fall in love with someone on Twitter.

And while we're talking about motives... what exactly is Te'o's motive here for being in on the hoax? To win a Heisman? Beat Michigan State? Achieve an unbeaten season? That to me is a hundred times more ridiculous than two guys and a girl deciding they're going to play a cruel, heartless prank on a guy who's a bit simple.

Sorry Rob. I won't go point by point, but I respectfully disagree with everything in there. Most especially the last part. At least Te'o had something real to gain from the deception. Attention, publicity, sympathy, self-gratification. If we are going with the "people do crazy things for no reason angle" then Te'o as hoaxer and Tui as assistant/scapegoat makes more sense on that front as well.

Teammates said they suspected GF was fake for a long time but when she died in September they said they "they knew" it was BS but didn't have the courage to confront Te'o about it. They also said that Te'o is a "very good actor." That was his teammate's choice of words. If that's not revealing, I don't know what is.

One other detail that eats at me- notice how Tui has come off as incredibly remorseful and apologetic in his confession?

Assume that Tui and Te'o really were conspirators and that this started off as an innocent joke/prank that went too far. In that scenario, it would make sense that Tui would feel intense guilt/consternation- because his decision to kill off Kekua and turn this into a national story ended up backfiring on his friend- a move that might cost his friend millions of dollars and maybe even an NFL dream. I know if I was Tui in that situation, I'd feel horrible, and I'd badly want to take all the blame while covering for my friend.

That's how Tui came off in his confession. You could tell he really wanted to take 100% of the blame and cover for Te'o, He was crying and everything. If Te'o is innocent and Tui the bad guy who did this out of spite, malice, or sociopathic non-caring, this response would be emotionally at odds.

If Te'o came out on Monday and confessed saying that he was in on it and it was a lie that got bigger and bigger and out of control and that he was terribly sorry about it, I'd forgive him just like that. This whole thing is silly. I'm not bothered so much that Te'o told lies. I'm more bothered that he might still be telling them, and that he doesn't have a strong sense of personal accountability.

Last edited by kearly on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

I just wanted to point out that I'm really proud of everyone here for keeping the discussion civil and on an intellectual level (until page 11 anyway. Still, not bad). Really, when this thread started, I had no idea any of us would care this much.

CPHawk wrote:Yes, it is impossible for a guy like him. He could walk anywhere on campus and point out a girl and get laid. Why would he have to go online for love? Reminds me of the time I was at a club in Seattle, and a limo pulled up. Brett Boone stepped out, then pointed to two random girls standing in line, and then they all drove off in his limo.

LOL. I thought you were going to use the Chris Berman "You're with me, leather!" story, but that one is pretty epic as well.

-The Glove- wrote:I didn't say he should drop everything and go to California. He took trips back home to Hawaii did he not? Does he not have family and friends in Cali? Didn't read the rest...cause good lord, wall of text.

You missed a pretty cool story about Itula Mili. The "wall of text" comment did make me laugh though (no offense intended Shark, I write tomes as well).

pehawk wrote:English kind of HAS to take this line. He puts a lot of effort and time into his blog, the type of efforts usually married to a goal of being paid, someday. Is disadvantageous for him NOT to give the benefit of the doubt. Agents, players, other media, sources, etc..

Rob actually works for the BBC, so I'm sure he's probably well trained at being careful when it comes to stuff like this. Better to give the benefit of the doubt than to set oneself up for a defamation suit. I'm sure he's not worried about that at SDB, my point is that he's likely been trained to be careful. You'll notice that I'm being very careful not to rip him for his stance because I completely understand the caution he's showing.

Last edited by kearly on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.

SharkHawk wrote:FYI - For those saying Te'o should have dropped everything and gone to California... I have a bit of a newsflash for you. The Te'o family is not rich. In fact, they are quite poor. The entire family has very little money, this was one reason his offer was rescinded by BYU. They felt that he only took his visit here for a free trip to the mainland to see his cousins, and didn't take his recruiting visit seriously.

The level of poverty of many Mormon families in the islands is very well known, and I don't think you guys fully understand how little money these families have. The cost of living is incredibly high, and many of the families took every penny they could muster and moved to Hawai'i from Samoa, Tonga, and Fiji in order to give their children a better chance at an education and success. They want them to go to college and such. That is why places like Utah and Missouri (yes, look it up) have such massively high populations of Islanders. It is because these places are cheap to live, have strong education systems, and now have vast networks of other Islanders to watch out for them and help them get established, get jobs, etc.

One example I can give you is a guy who played for the Hawks named Itula Mili. He grew up in Hawai'i and Norm Chow begged his parents to take out an insurance policy on Itula's NFL career. It would have been a couple of thousand dollars. They couldn't come up with the money. He was a "lock" to be a first round pick, and was told so by multiple GM's and the NFL. Chow begged them to do it and they finally said they just couldn't and not to bring it up again. Itula was injured so horribly in the WAC championship game in Vegas that he almost lost his leg. It was so awful that he had every single ligament tear and was in a wheelchair for at least a month afterwards. No members of his family could even afford to come visit him. Luckily he had student insurance that paid for his surgery. My friend was engaged to him and I would see them at the mall and she was pushing him around so he could get out. Then he finally was walking. The Hawks drafted him in I believe the sixth round and he had a year to prepare to play. They saw it as a future risk worthy move.

His family was so poor that they literally lived in a shack. I'm not joking. Te'o isn't as bad off as the Mili's, but they aren't rich people. He can't hop a plane, and he isn't the type at this point in his life where he'd take a free plane ticket. He is known to be pretty shy as well, and I can imagine him hoping this girl was real, but not wanting to go find out she wasn't.

Why would that Tui kid do such a thing? Because people are creepy. I guess some of you have never had a stalker. I've had two. One is a situation I'm currently in. He starts his stuff all over again, and I just have to turn it over to the police. Why has he wasted literally hours upon hours of his life? Because he's a piece of shit that is going to rot in hell. That's why. But he still does it. We're going on 30 months straight and I'll get emails, texts, random drive-bys at my house (we finally moved). He'd throw specific things on my yard so I'd know he'd been on my property. It was a wonderful game for him. This is a guy that is an executive at a software company, one that you all use their software everyday..... I won't tell you which one but newsFLASH, you've all used it at some point while surfing the internet or SHOPping for PHOTOs. Yet he persists. He's mentally unstable. It's a fact. He won't let things go and let me live my life. The police know, so it isn't like I can show up and beat him to a pulp either, because they'd know it was me. I filed a report the first time he threatened to kill me and each subsequent time. Why do people do what they do? Because there are a lot of sociopaths out there.

I've heard people float the "Maybe Manti is gay?!!!" theory. I say "So what if he is?" But I also say, "So what if Tui was, and had a thing for Manti?" You never know what motivates some people. Could be a crush, could just be a creepy stalker.

I didn't say he should drop everything and go to California. He took trips back home to Hawaii did he not? Does he not have family and friends in Cali? Didn't read the rest...cause good lord, wall of text.

There is nothing better than somebody responding to your post by telling you that you wrote too much and they didn't actually read it. If you didn't read it, then why do you think I give a rat's ass if you think it's too long so you didn't bother to read my "wall of text"? Give me a break. So my writing a lot makes me look dumb and you feel a need to point out your superiority? Sorry if this is seen as me attacking the poster, but I see no point in posts like yours, as you've just said about mine. So I figure we're doing the same. I hope that wasn't too long for you. Probably was. My bad.

Lol. Who said it makes you look dumb? Never said I was superior. But carry on, sir.

This thread got all serious and stuff, but i'm still looking at the lighter side of it all.... this is awesome, imo:

On Thursday, May 23 the Freedom will be giving away the Manti Te'o Girlfriend Bobblehead to the first 1000 fans through the gates.

"This will be the best kind of bobblehead a fan could get," Freedom General Manager Josh Anderson said. "Because now fans can make the bobblehead out to be whatever they want it to be."

Yes Freedom fans, the boxes will be empty. But that's where fan imagination can run wild and individual unique stories about what the bobblehead should really look like can begin.

To add to the imaginary fun, section 115 will be blocked and reserved only for fans to sit with their imaginary friends, girlfriends/boyfriends or spouses. There will also be a make pretend kiss cam, air guitar contest and an imaginary food fight outside the Airheads Kids Zone.

JSeahawks wrote:This thread got all serious and stuff, but i'm still looking at the lighter side of it all.... this is awesome, imo:

On Thursday, May 23 the Freedom will be giving away the Manti Te'o Girlfriend Bobblehead to the first 1000 fans through the gates.

"This will be the best kind of bobblehead a fan could get," Freedom General Manager Josh Anderson said. "Because now fans can make the bobblehead out to be whatever they want it to be."

Yes Freedom fans, the boxes will be empty. But that's where fan imagination can run wild and individual unique stories about what the bobblehead should really look like can begin.

To add to the imaginary fun, section 115 will be blocked and reserved only for fans to sit with their imaginary friends, girlfriends/boyfriends or spouses. There will also be a make pretend kiss cam, air guitar contest and an imaginary food fight outside the Airheads Kids Zone.

MANTI TE'O: I talked to a former Oregon State quarterback who used to talk to her, as well.

JEREMY SCHAAP: Who was that.?

MANTI TE'O: Lyle Moevao. I asked him, and I still have the messages from him. "Hey, do you know who this Lennay girl is." He said "Yeah. I know her." He was like: "What's up?" I said, "We're just talking." He said, "I know her. She's real, bro. She's kind of weird. But she's real."