SIayton's profile

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No burst mobility is not real you made it up. Mobility is mobility that is that. Sol is not immobile at fucking all even before the changes like have you even seen the champion? HE IS ALWAYS MOVING THAT IS HIS THING, HE DASHES INTO A FIGHT THAT IS MOBILITY AND HIS Q GIVES HIM MS AND AFTER THE CHANGES SO DOES HIS W.
Like again it sounds like you don't even play this game.
There is basically no ap drivers so yes league needed one, no assassin support or ad support so yes league needed one, neeko is a standard mage and don't say she is overloaded because of aoe shit since neeko has really only been nerfed for on hit and nothing to do with mobility or cc, yuumi is a unique support and another back line enchanter would just cause problems due to the limitations of the class, and league needed a another ad assassin since pyke is not really a true assassin and it has been a long time since the last one and assassins need mobility more then any other class.
Immobile champions like enchanters are limited there is only so many skill shots and long ranged attacks whereas mobility has many more ways to put into a champions kit. Meaning over time there will be more champions with a dash then not a dash that is just how things work.
Like again cass was just op while not having a dash and so have a lot of champions actually but just keep ignoring them. Guess the nightmare that was karthus jg never happened, or that xayah and jinx a really good despite not having a real dash.

> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c61L7PbH,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-12T02:30:00.678+0000)
>
> No burst mobility is not real you made it up. Mobility is mobility that is that. Sol is not immobile at fucking all even before the changes like have you even seen the champion? HE IS ALWAYS MOVING THAT IS HIS THING, HE DASHES INTO A FIGHT THAT IS MOBILITY AND HIS Q GIVES HIM MS AND AFTER THE CHANGES SO DOES HIS W.
>
> Like again it sounds like you don't even play this game.
>
> There is basically no ap drivers so yes league needed one, no assassin support or ad support so yes league needed one, neeko is a standard mage and don't say she is overloaded because of aoe shit since neeko has really only been nerfed for on hit and nothing to do with mobility or cc, yuumi is a unique support and another back line enchanter would just cause problems due to the limitations of the class, and league needed a another ad assassin since pyke is not really a true assassin and it has been a long time since the last one and assassins need mobility more then any other class.
>
> Immobile champions like enchanters are limited there is only so many skill shots and long ranged attacks whereas mobility has many more ways to put into a champions kit. Meaning over time there will be more champions with a dash then not a dash that is just how things work.
>
> Like again cass was just op while not having a dash and so have a lot of champions actually but just keep ignoring them. Guess the nightmare that was karthus jg never happened, or that xayah and jinx a really good despite not having a real dash.
Just because Riot hasn't labeled burst mobility a thing doesn't mean it's not a thing. Out of combat mobility is like sustained mobility where as dashes and blinks and huge speed ups are burst. Use your brain for a second and I'm sure you can make sense of it.
lol no AP divers. Except Diana and Ekko and Fizz and like half the other midlaners.
Are you sure I'm the one that sounds like they don't play the game? Also I said I was ignoring ADCs since they generally don't have CC although Xayah does have CC and at least an "oh shit" button that you can use in the same situations you would use a dash. Jinx just has so much range it doesn't matter if she can't dash since she's so far removed from the fight she's not needing to move around, although her mobility is insane once she gets a kill, so positioning is honestly super easy on her. But by far I see Kaisa dominating the most and she's really mobile for an ADC herself. Mid lane is mostly dashy assassins. Jungle is either dashy assassins or dashy fighters or dashy tanks (looking at you Sej with your dash CC button). Pyke, Rakan, and the cat are all very common in support and all are dashy. Top lane is really the only lane that's not completely dominated by dashers but you still see a lot of Kled / Irelia up there to go along with the Garens and the Darius's. The whole meta revolves around dashes and the champions that have CC to stop the dashes.
But yeah as far as what's viable, I feel like the newer overloaded mobile CC champions are crowding out older champions. I main Vel'koz personally and every new champion that comes out is another "goddamnit not another bad matchup" for me. I can handle a couple of dashers on him but it becomes next to impossible to do anything on him when literally every champion on the enemy team has a way to avoid your skill shots / get to you easily.

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No one plays cass yeah because she got nerfed at the start for being to good. Sol had more fucking mobility THIS MOST OF THOSE CHAMPIONS YOU LISTED. Like I don't think you even know what these champions do. It sounds like you just watch highlights and don't play.
Funny that you just ignore the fact THAT MOST OF THEM SHOULD HAVE DASHES!!!. Look at the classes of those champions and actually think. Assassins need a dash, and drivers need a dash.

> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c61L7PbH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-12T01:37:56.966+0000)
>
> No one plays cass yeah because she got nerfed at the start for being to good. Sol had more fucking mobility THIS MOST OF THOSE CHAMPIONS YOU LISTED. Like I don't think you even know what these champions do. It sounds like you just watch highlights and don't play.
>
> Funny that you just ignore the fact THAT MOST OF THEM SHOULD HAVE DASHES!!!. Look at the classes of those champions and actually think. Assassins need a dash, and drivers need a dash.
How does Sol have more mobility than others listed? We're talking burst mobility that you can use in combat, not out of combat macro mobility like Sol. Sol is immobile as fuck in lane.
And why is it that every champion released "needs" a dash? Why don't they make something outside those archtypes then? Why does everything need to be a dash assassin? Could champions "need" a dash because literally everyone else also has a dash? :thinking:

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> [{quoted}](name=SIayton,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hEj36Aqp,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-09-11T09:32:43.717+0000)
>
> Honestly, was anyone complaining about Sol? I play him and was unaware he was a problem. No one ever complains, you almost never see him, he's super easy to kill.
Yes they were. It's the entire reason Sol had such a low playrate. He got nerfed into that state because his early game roaming was absolutely oppressive in high elo.
We stopped complaining because he got nerfed to oblivion. The rework fixes the issues old Sol had in this regard.
Blahblah unique playstyle w.e idc, old Sol was toxic to play against. Basically old Shaco levels of "hey can we play our lanes without you constantly being here?"
And I personally have actually had fun playing the new Sol. My only complaint is yeah he's just too squishy early on, which that pretty massive HP buff should fix.

> [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleepier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hEj36Aqp,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2019-09-11T16:13:24.318+0000)
>
> Yes they were. It's the entire reason Sol had such a low playrate. He got nerfed into that state because his early game roaming was absolutely oppressive in high elo.
>
> We stopped complaining because he got nerfed to oblivion. The rework fixes the issues old Sol had in this regard.
>
> Blahblah unique playstyle w.e idc, old Sol was toxic to play against. Basically old Shaco levels of "hey can we play our lanes without you constantly being here?"
>
> And I personally have actually had fun playing the new Sol. My only complaint is yeah he's just too squishy early on, which that pretty massive HP buff should fix.
Most of the good midlaners already shove and roam though. if him shoving and roaming REALLY early (like level 3) is an issue then why do champions like Talon, Taliyah, etc exist as well that are designed to do the same thing? They could have just nerfed his minion damage early instead of reworking his kit and identity and he's still pretty able to shove and roam so IMO that was a fail on their part anyway.
I just don't get how people don't find all these dashing hard CC bursting crazy mobile assassin / mage / tank hybrid champions toxic but Sol being able to push the wave is toxic?

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Riot has never reverted a rework within a patch of doing so. That's just defeatism. All it does it return him to the problems he had before, and whether you feel that he's worth those problems or not, doesn't really matter when he was changed to try to introduce more counterplay to the guy. There's the potential he'll get more tweaks, some more changes, but within all of Riot's history, they've never instantly ditched a reworked within a patch.

> [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hEj36Aqp,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-11T07:40:06.251+0000)
>
> Riot has never reverted a rework within a patch of doing so. That's just defeatism. All it does it return him to the problems he had before, and whether you feel that he's worth those problems or not, doesn't really matter when he was changed to try to introduce more counterplay to the guy. There's the potential he'll get more tweaks, some more changes, but within all of Riot's history, they've never instantly ditched a reworked within a patch.
Honestly, was anyone complaining about Sol? I play him and was unaware he was a problem. No one ever complains, you almost never see him, he's super easy to kill.
I'm just confused why riot acts like he was some huge proble that, if it existed, would have manifested itself in pick and ban rate.

Riot: "Let's make a champion who's ENTIRE DPS PATTERN IS BASED ON MOVEMENT and then forget about that and take out his move speed buffs to be able to position but then put them on his only way to self peel so if he wants to get in range to do DPS he has to blow his CC leaving him vulnerable to being engaged on"
But uhhh don't worry, the stars go kinda fast for a second and you can make a spirit bomb that everyone just steps out of the way of anyway if people stay in midlane for atleast 30 seconds while you make it!

I had a match the other day where everyone on the enemy team had close to a 58%+ winrate while the HIGHEST winrate on my team was 50%. But don't worry, we all had slightly higher ranks because uhh.... ranks mean more than winrate, apparently.
Needless to say, the winrate guys dumpstered us.

Agreed, I think this is one of those cases they just need to scrap the rework and go back to the original. It pretty much failed on all their design goals and took away a really unique champion playstyle in favor of "just another burster".
Riot seems to not like when unique champions are successful even though they say every champion should bring a diff experience to the game lol. Not that.... anyone really plays Sol other than his few mains, but even his mains are starting to drop him for champions that just do his new overcrowded job better.

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I'm not Sol player, but I believe that he needs to be reverted to pre-rework state. They can keep this Q change(in desriptions it seems to be QoL change) and then they could try once more by adjusting nubmbers(dunno increased toughness, maybe CD on E, etc. ).
Imho! The biggest, and not problematic change that they can do in his skillset is a creation of new passive and transfer of old one into W. What I mean? I always believed that his W is literally conitnuation of his passive instead of mechanic that interacts with it. Passives usually are a usefull stand-alone abilities(Malzahar, Garen, Varus, Anivia), or gimmicks which synergize with rest of kit(Ekko, Pantheon, Akali, Darius, Urgot, etc.). Aurelion's "Center of the Universe" is basically his "Celestial Expansion" but less. Duh, his W already has passive effect which increases dmg of his real passive...
Let's look at 4 examples of similar correlations.
1) Jarvan's E. His E, expect whole dmg and Q-dash, is just a banner which increases AS of nearby allies. But Jarvan as a standard-bearer recieves AS passively. Useage of this skill has a effect of expanding this effect.
2) Garen's R. His ult recieved Villain mechanic, during juggernaut update(in season 5th). Basically, Garen's ult deals magic dmg, but this spell have a passive which marks villain, who receives true dmg instead of magic. Simple. I know that they're reworking Villain out, and that this mechanic have another effect of dealing 1% max hp on spells and aas, but whole idea still is focused around strenghting his ult.
3) Garen's W. Also simple thing. His W allow him to passively gain more toughness by farming, and after activation he gains even more tankiness.
4) Aurolin's pre-reworked E. Spell was all about mobility, active allow you to fly over map in one direction, and passive was giving more ms when you were just moving in one direction. Basically: "I can move fast in straight line, if I use my whole power i can move even faster and higher in straight line!).
Keeping his actual passive in his W(of course after balancing math) would free a slot for new, minor effect. Which one? I don't know, I don't play Aurelion, so I didn't think about it, mains would have better idea, they know exactly what would be helpful, or at least welcomed. I guess that his kit is so cooperative with himself that it can be simple stand-alone effect, something like: "Celestial Body" dmg coming from long distances is reduced by x% + immunity to minion block, or old Singed's passive "Power of Eons" which allows him to increase his mana pool by bought hp and vice versa. I mean. Well, you can ignore this ideas, but I'm curious what's your opinion about whole concept of new passive and transfer of old-one?

> [{quoted}](name=LeśnyZagajniczek,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d1EGYw3G,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-09-05T22:19:40.590+0000)
>
> I'm not Sol player, but I believe that he needs to be reverted to pre-rework state. They can keep this Q change(in desriptions it seems to be QoL change) and then they could try once more by adjusting nubmbers(dunno increased toughness, maybe CD on E, etc. ).
>
> Imho! The biggest, and not problematic change that they can do in his skillset is a creation of new passive and transfer of old one into W. What I mean? I always believed that his W is literally conitnuation of his passive instead of mechanic that interacts with it. Passives usually are a usefull stand-alone abilities(Malzahar, Garen, Varus, Anivia), or gimmicks which synergize with rest of kit(Ekko, Pantheon, Akali, Darius, Urgot, etc.). Aurelion's "Center of the Universe" is basically his "Celestial Expansion" but less. Duh, his W already has passive effect which increases dmg of his real passive...
>
> Let's look at 4 examples of similar correlations.
> 1) Jarvan's E. His E, expect whole dmg and Q-dash, is just a banner which increases AS of nearby allies. But Jarvan as a standard-bearer recieves AS passively. Useage of this skill has a effect of expanding this effect.
> 2) Garen's R. His ult recieved Villain mechanic, during juggernaut update(in season 5th). Basically, Garen's ult deals magic dmg, but this spell have a passive which marks villain, who receives true dmg instead of magic. Simple. I know that they're reworking Villain out, and that this mechanic have another effect of dealing 1% max hp on spells and aas, but whole idea still is focused around strenghting his ult.
> 3) Garen's W. Also simple thing. His W allow him to passively gain more toughness by farming, and after activation he gains even more tankiness.
> 4) Aurolin's pre-reworked E. Spell was all about mobility, active allow you to fly over map in one direction, and passive was giving more ms when you were just moving in one direction. Basically: "I can move fast in straight line, if I use my whole power i can move even faster and higher in straight line!).
>
> Keeping his actual passive in his W(of course after balancing math) would free a slot for new, minor effect. Which one? I don't know, I don't play Aurelion, so I didn't think about it, mains would have better idea, they know exactly what would be helpful, or at least welcomed. I guess that his kit is so cooperative with himself that it can be simple stand-alone effect, something like: "Celestial Body" dmg coming from long distances is reduced by x% + immunity to minion block, or old Singed's passive "Power of Eons" which allows him to increase his mana pool by bought hp and vice versa. I mean. Well, you can ignore this ideas, but I'm curious what's your opinion about whole concept of new passive and transfer of old-one?
I agree that his passive does feel kind of short changed since his W basically is just an extension of it. They could give him his old move speed passive back as his regular passive and just make all the star stuff connected to W, or give him something new entirely like... each time a star hits a champion the rotation speeds up or hell, even giving him an anti dash mechanic since they love putting those on underplayed champions like dashes are disabled for 0.5 seconds after being hit by one of Sol's stars or something like that.

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There was no reason to nerf him.
He's a high skill floor champion, which means players should be rewarded, especially in high elo if they can play him well.
He can't 100-0 anyone at level 2.
He can't dash a million times.
He can't face tank everything then heal his hp back to full.
I have no issue with someone playing ASol, both as a bot lane player and as a mid lane player in the current state of the game.
If he roams, I get turret plating and usually first turret.
If I get ganked, his Q isn't that hard to avoid, especially if he casts it during his flight.
Really, ASol is probably one of the fairest champions in the game compared to shit like {{champion:92}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:238}} who can one-shot you, dash a million times, shove lane AND roam. But ASol doesn't sell skins, so he's getting nerfed instead!

> [{quoted}](name=Tuition Fee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d1EGYw3G,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-09-05T21:31:01.791+0000)
>
> There was no reason to nerf him.
> He's a high skill floor champion, which means players should be rewarded, especially in high elo if they can play him well.
> He can't 100-0 anyone at level 2.
> He can't dash a million times.
> He can't face tank everything then heal his hp back to full.
>
> I have no issue with someone playing ASol, both as a bot lane player and as a mid lane player in the current state of the game.
> If he roams, I get turret plating and usually first turret.
> If I get ganked, his Q isn't that hard to avoid, especially if he casts it during his flight.
>
> Really, ASol is probably one of the fairest champions in the game compared to shit like {{champion:92}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:238}} who can one-shot you, dash a million times, shove lane AND roam. But ASol doesn't sell skins, so he's getting nerfed instead!
Yeah it completely blows my mind they call Sol's playstyle "toxic" while champions with a billion dashes and 100-0 burst in less than a second are fair. Makes zero sense. These days it feels like literally every champion on the enemy team has a dash so it's even harder to keep people at the distance you need them to be to be effective on Sol and most champions have a way to get into your dead zone and kill you.

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most reworks are a miss, and champion mains want them reverted. I still feel that way about Fiora, Malzahar and Akali. (even after Fiora got nerfed because people refused to counterplay or counterbuild her, and akali was no longer able to go full tank and 1v1 the adc, i didn't play akali that could trigger Q mark with her E)
But so far, the only ones that were graced by this divine touch (rework reverted) were Riven (reverted while still on PBE), Rengar, Leblank and Kog.
So, while waiting to see if your champion gets reverted or not (the odds are not in your favor btw), you could give a try and play his like an AP Talon and see how that works. With a build more focused on wave clear and burst {{item:3802}} -> {{item:3907}} -> {{item:3020}} than the control mage he used to be.

> [{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d1EGYw3G,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-09-05T20:50:53.826+0000)
>
> most reworks are a miss, and champion mains want them reverted. I still feel that way about Fiora, Malzahar and Akali. (even after Fiora got nerfed because people refused to counterplay or counterbuild her, and akali was no longer able to go full tank and 1v1 the adc, i didn't play akali that could trigger Q mark with her E)
>
> But so far, the only ones that were graced by this divine touch (rework reverted) were Riven (reverted while still on PBE), Rengar, Leblank and Kog.
>
> So, while waiting to see if your champion gets reverted or not (the odds are not in your favor btw), you could give a try and play his like an AP Talon and see how that works. With a build more focused on wave clear and burst {{item:3802}} -> {{item:3907}} -> {{item:3020}} than the control mage he used to be.
Yeah I've tried that but other AP bursters do it better. I mostly just play Velkoz now because I'd rather burst better and have more range + safe wave clear if I'm just gonna be a discount Vel on ASol. He wasn't really built to be a burster with his kit and I feel like they just kinda shoehorned him into that role now.

100% Agree that this is the worst season ever. I think it's absolutely ridiculous they balance the game for competitive play. 99.9999% of players are not LCS level players. Those players play an almost entirely different meta yet the changes designed to affect their games greatly affects the casual experience of league for most players and throws the game way out of wack for us. Do you want your product to be an enjoyable experience for the vast majority of people playing your game on the day to day (which is what drives popularity and engagement) or do you want the competitive players THAT ARE GOING TO PLAY THE GAME ANYWAY to get what they want? Just approaching it from a $$$ perspective, it's actually not smart at all to focus on competitive when it makes the normal gameplay experience of the game dramatically worse.
Also I agree the game is randomly REALLY snowbally yet players have the least agency to carry. It's extremely hard to solo carry a game (something I did regularly in old seasons) but this season it really does feel like a collective snowball and whichever team has the weakest link (or links) loses as opposed to the strong players winning.
Also SUPER agree that jungle needs huge changes. Almost every game is decided by who has the worse jungler. Laning is not nearly as important as it used to be and because scuttle crabs have the junglers in the river fighting constantly and subsequently ganking lanes afterwards, ganks are WAY up and the random skirmishes in river turn the game into coin tossy early fights more than anything. It's absolutely terrible for everyone involved and IMO affects jungle diversity pretty badly at the same time.
Flattening scaling would also be amazing. It feels terrible losing to a champion just because "lol it's late game now so they auto win" or getting destroyed in lane by an ape on some early game champion and then watching them just hit the 20 minute mark and suddenly completely stop doing damage despite being full build (like pantheon).
Just reward individual skill and laning ability again. Shut downs are awful. Why reward players for losing? If you get a lead, it should mean something. Imagine putting in all that work to get ahead through solo kills and then someone getting 3+ kills worth of gold from catching you with their team once. Suddenly the guy you outplayed for the entire game is back in it because of one engagement. That makes no sense.
Also stop reworking every champion for the hell of it when no one wanted it. Looking at you, Aurelion Sol. Literally no one likes the rework, no one wanted it, it didn't do anything they wanted it to do other than make him play like every other mage. But riot just did it to do it.

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> [{quoted}](name=letsfeedtogether,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rvnzPEKx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-07T12:57:50.276+0000)
>
> It has one.
Yeah I think he just got stomped by some low dia smurf or something.

> [{quoted}](name=Supercharge,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rvnzPEKx,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-07T15:54:57.659+0000)
>
> Yeah I think he just got stomped by some low dia smurf or something.
Of course I got beat by a smurf, why you think I'm in here bitching about it? It happens on the regular. You shouldn't be at an elo you consistently have close to 100% win rate in.
If you think about it, you're statistically more likely to fight a smurf than to have a smurf on your team. 5 potential smurf slots on the enemy team vs only 4 on yours. And honestly I don't mind fighting high elo players myself but when my top Teemo gets demolished by someone 4 tiers higher than him, it's frustrating because you feel pretty helpless in the game.
It ruins the competitive integrity of ranked IMO.

> [{quoted}](name=letsfeedtogether,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rvnzPEKx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-07T12:57:50.276+0000)
>
> It has one.
The shit ain't working if it has one.
I have a friend that has like 4 accounts he smurfs on and he's constantly rotating to play in low elo stuff. He has yet to get bumped up to where he belongs on any of them.
Smurfing should be a reportable offense honestly.

Re: Item Drops
The biggest problem is availability. I'm fine with people getting better items than me. What I'm NOT fine with is people getting WAY more items than me. I think certain enemies should 100% drop items (ie you get 1 item per monster wave guaranteed) instead of the crap shoot it is now where you can come out with either almost no items or a shitload of them.
That way, you can build around the items you do get instead of just hoping RNG favors you and it won't feel so bad getting washed by the guy with a vayne that happened to get 2 rageblades early on while all you have is a negatron cloak.

> [{quoted}](name=General Matty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Jl1HBFk5,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-17T03:53:19.152+0000)
>
> Disgusting champion. Wouldn't care if she got gutted and put into a trash can.
Agree. League enjoyment would go way up if they just deleted her out of the game database. She makes the game so unfun when she doesn't get banned. Completely ridiculous design, I have no idea how that actually got put in the game.

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I don't agree...
Every Drake changes gameplay.
An ocean Drake early in the game completely warps Laning phase. You don't care as much about mana costs, you can recover better from bad trades.
An infernal Drake changes the entire outcome of fights. I recently had a game where we had dragon control and were taking infernal. Our jungler failed smite and it got stolen by enemy support lux ultimate (at level 6 or 7). I subsequently charmed their ADC, and got him to 7hp on my combo before he healed and I had no cooldowns. He lifestealed long enough to get out as their jungler came in. At the same time my top/jungle died 2v2 with both enemies surviving under 60hp. If my jungler didn't miss the infernal Drake there, we come out with it PLUS 3 kills for none, but instead lost it and 3 kills to none. That's a 6 kill swing and definitely cost us that game, even though we were only levels 6 to 9.
Mountain makes you get so much objective pressure. You can melt Baron way too easily and can rush it before your opponent can react even if they have vision.
They all change the game. They can all also be dealt with.
You can still counterplay cloud by flanking. It's not as trivial as just running away.

> [{quoted}](name=ValyrianBlade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E3RqQ6Hp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-24T20:11:53.168+0000)
>
> I don't agree...
>
> Every Drake changes gameplay.
>
> An ocean Drake early in the game completely warps Laning phase. You don't care as much about mana costs, you can recover better from bad trades.
>
> An infernal Drake changes the entire outcome of fights. I recently had a game where we had dragon control and were taking infernal. Our jungler failed smite and it got stolen by enemy support lux ultimate (at level 6 or 7). I subsequently charmed their ADC, and got him to 7hp on my combo before he healed and I had no cooldowns. He lifestealed long enough to get out as their jungler came in. At the same time my top/jungle died 2v2 with both enemies surviving under 60hp. If my jungler didn't miss the infernal Drake there, we come out with it PLUS 3 kills for none, but instead lost it and 3 kills to none. That's a 6 kill swing and definitely cost us that game, even though we were only levels 6 to 9.
>
> Mountain makes you get so much objective pressure. You can melt Baron way too easily and can rush it before your opponent can react even if they have vision.
>
> They all change the game. They can all also be dealt with.
>
> You can still counterplay cloud by flanking. It's not as trivial as just running away.
Unless you're SUPER behind, I personally feel like you can overcome raw stats by just outplaying someone. At least in solo queue, I feel like those small advantages don't really matter that much and I can just ignore them, but cloud is basically impossible to ignore because the COMBAT actually changes. I think there is a big distinction there.
I'm sure there are times where 10 AD makes a difference between life or death but I would wager that cloud drake probably makes or breaks way more engagements.

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> [{quoted}](name=SIayton,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tQUyJGGp,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-19T13:55:08.209+0000)
>
> Title. I've tried every counter pick and nothing works. It doesn't feel like anyone beats him in lane anymore
>
>
Sadly that's how the game has turned to since GC brought Runes Reforged in. "Counters" aren't counters anymore because of the insane amounts of damage in the game while defense was stripped.
I have a hard time against Yas too so I'm not much help. I used to be able to shit on him with Annie but even her I can't do anymore. Tsk.
Riot, you done fucked up.

> [{quoted}](name=MiracleMorg94,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tQUyJGGp,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-19T14:24:58.540+0000)
>
> Sadly that's how the game has turned to since GC brought Runes Reforged in. "Counters" aren't counters anymore because of the insane amounts of damage in the game while defense was stripped.
>
> I have a hard time against Yas too so I'm not much help. I used to be able to shit on him with Annie but even her I can't do anymore. Tsk.
>
> Riot, you done fucked up.
Same, annie was my go-to anti yasuo but it doesn't seem like she can match his damage in laning phase. He just always either seems to have his shield up or regens health from runes if you can get any to stick. I feel like he used to have to hold whatever damage you put on him but now he just pushes the wave and has all his health back. He out damages most assassins too so even they can't counter him like they used to. It's pretty ridiculous right now. I think you're boned if your jungler won't help when he pushes.

His damage is just.... horrible honestly. He's got a great kit but it's just so hard to get good damage on him and even if you do, you have to go balls deep and it leaves you open for punishment. IMO his W heal should work on jungle creeps and he'd be a perfectly fine jungler. I def don't think he's suited for mid like I see a lot of people playing him. Def top or jg with some numbers or functionality buffs.

:
> [{quoted}](name=SIayton,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RM0Ooy22,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-31T18:23:05.508+0000)
>
> I think they should shred armor so that you&#x27;re not punished AS hard for taking the initial shot but if you&#x27;re going to sit under the tower, you take more and more damage and become easier to kill. It&#x27;s really dumb that I can 100-0 someone as Garen under their tower and barely take any damage from it.
>
> Also maybe increase the rate of fire but reduce damage so it&#x27;s less easy to weave in and out of the hits but they have the same DPS. Would also make last hitting under tower easier.
so you want to punish champions who are actually building to survive turrets longer, and who are trading mobility for defense unproportionally harder than mobile and bursty champions who can dive in and out of turret range and constantly reset turret aggro?
champions like {{champion:64}} are already favoured by the current turret mechanics compared to champions like garen, because not only do they take on average less shots during a turret dive because of their mobility and burst, but additionally those turret shots barely deal any damage because of the ramp up mechanic.
if you want to improve turrets and make them safer, remove or at least tune down the ramp up mechanic and have the first two shots on a dive deal some actual damage.

> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RM0Ooy22,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-08-31T19:01:08.777+0000)
>
> so you want to punish champions who are actually building to survive turrets longer, and who are trading mobility for defense unproportionally harder than mobile and bursty champions who can dive in and out of turret range and constantly reset turret aggro?
>
> champions like {{champion:64}} are already favoured by the current turret mechanics compared to champions like garen, because not only do they take on average less shots during a turret dive because of their mobility and burst, but additionally those turret shots barely deal any damage because of the ramp up mechanic.
>
> if you want to improve turrets and make them safer, remove or at least tune down the ramp up mechanic and have the first two shots on a dive deal some actual damage.
That in and out to avoid shots by high mobility champions is why I suggested increasing the attack speed as well. Basically there are too many ways around turret fire atm and I think hitting both tanking through them and dodging the shots would make them better at doing their job. Same goes for champions like fizz that can dodge the shots. He has a really big DPS window between shots before he needs to use his troll pole. Faster rate of fire would make doing that harder or at least give him a smaller window to walk up to you and do his combo under tower.
That change would also make accidentally stepping into turret aggro range with your minion wave less punishing, which would be nice.

I think they should shred armor so that you're not punished AS hard for taking the initial shot but if you're going to sit under the tower, you take more and more damage and become easier to kill. It's really dumb that I can 100-0 someone as Garen under their tower and barely take any damage from it.
Also maybe increase the rate of fire but reduce damage so it's less easy to weave in and out of the hits but they have the same DPS. Would also make last hitting under tower easier.

Please adjust the jungle so it doesn't favor duelists so much. The meta has become so boring for junglers as it favors high damage bruisers over more interesting gankers and such. Scuttle crab has also created a snowbally jungle environment where the person who can get scuttle crabs is able to get more and more scuttle crabs. The early level 2-ish skirmish that often involves mid laners as well for the scuttle crabs have also made the games more random and volatile, often resulting in a double kill on a player that makes the games quickly snowball out of control. I believe the early scuttle crab spawns and high gold reward for killing them is contributing to this and should be looked at.
All in all, scuttle crabs have been really bad for the game health IMO.

It's blatantly obvious the burst damage is too high right now by a WIDE margin but for some reason they just tip toe around it and do little baby dick nerfs instead of taking the hammer to it like it desperately needs. I had a game against a gragas that was 1 shotting people with his combo after like 1 kill. It was disgusting. Bruisers should not be 1 shotting anyone. The time to kill in general this season is just wayyyyyyyyy too low. In old seasons if you were behind you could play an in and out, fall back pattern style of fighting and still win if you outplayed them but now there is no outplaying. If they get a button rotation off on you, you're dead. This makes mistakes more punishing than they've ever been before and makes comebacks virtually impossible.
They just need to give everyone like 100 more HP level 1 and 10 more armor / MR or something.

You can't balance right click, run at you champions. They're either OP or unplayable because there's no finesse in their kit. Just look at what's top tier in the jungle this season (and a lot of top lane too). You tune the damage too high and suddenly the right clickers pass the stat check and are out performing champions with more room for error by a pretty wide margin. Yi is always going to be frustrating to play against unless they rework his kit. He either explodes your team or explodes. No in between.

I was going to chime in and agree and tell them not to do it but you know what.... season 8 is shit. Their game direction is shit. I've been 100-0'ed enough times this season by champions that had no business doing that so many times I just want to see the company go up in flames at this point. idk how they could let a formerly fun game devolve into this simplistic face bashing high damage no finesse scrub fest.
I say let them burn, they deserve it.

Yeah I really don't like her voice or her lines. It all sounds kinda juvenile. You'd expect a high level ninja to be more... idk. Wise / battle hardened. She just sounds like a 14 year old school girl.

Tanks are objectively less tanky than they used to be barring maybe Garen which is why he's so strong right now. He's literally one of the only tanks that can actually do his job.
Champs like Maokai get deleted just as fast as squishies building full tank. Conquerer and the increase in access to true damage and more and more champions doing % life damage have made tanks lives really hard. IMO, champions that are meant to be tanks need actual % damage mitigation like Garen in order to be effective. It's the only thing that can stand up to all the damage types out there now.

Wukong will never be in a good spot as long as he has his current kit. He's way too binary and low counter play. He's either always going to be suboptimal / unplayable or grossly overpowered because of the way his kit works. He's just dated and needs a visual / gameplay update IMO.

They really should lower damage but then do more to encourage team fights so there's more fights and they last longer. They did a lot to encourage fights this season but the explosive damage has made them way more random and unsatisfying. There needs to be more time to kill per champion IMO. That's where the fun gameplay is anyway.

Been saying Wukong is busted for a while. 0 counterplay, INSANE burst with duskblade, amazing team fight, amazing ganks. His only real issues are early in lane if he can't burst you and his mana but it honestly doesn't even matter that much if you're behind considering the value of stealth in > point and click no counterplay dash > AOE steerable knockup.
Absolutely hate fighting wukong, I've been banning him for a month or two now.

If they reduced the damage overall I think the game would be in a much better spot. Tanks would be viable again, waves wouldn't get cleared as fast (resulting in less roam time), fights would be longer and more rewarding and not just clicking them with 2 of your abilities before they explode. All of the excess damage coming from runes on top of the sweeping changes to champions all around and speeding up the game has made it way less enjoyable and satisfying to play.
It's like it's not even league of legends anymore, just some fast paced rip off imitation where the only viable champions are the derpy ones that can jump on your face and dump their overloaded rune damage on you better than others.

I've noticed an unusual amount of harassment for picking him to (as well as him being banned out from under me a lot). I get that he's got a pretty high skill floor to play and most people suck on him atm but how else are they supposed to get good unless they play the champion? I've carried quite a few games on him so it's not like he's bad, most people just don't know what they're doing yet.
Definitely a frustrating experience.

1 win away from promotion, I've been playing aatrox jg. Queue up and the top before my pick wants aatrox he takes him and I pick Kindred. Aatrox AFKs right after the remake timer, knocking me out of promos. Next game I get another rage quit 5 minutes in, -20 more LP. Game after that, I get a "proxy" singed which is basically just disco singed chain feeding top. Next game we get an AP trynd and an ADC Yi. Next game I'm so tilted that when the enemy graves counter jungles me and I get no response to my pings for help that I basically tilt off the planet... annnnnnnnnnd demoted, all from being in my promos to rank up.
Between the trolls and the AFKs, I think I'm just done with solo queue this season. Tired of being penalized for stuff out of my control.

Honestly I think his low win rate is because he's awful at peel. All of his CC has a 1 second daily, which in league time is like 3 ADC lifetimes. Assassins can dumpster your ADC before you can CC them, even if you react in time.
On top of that, even when ahead, he still has issues killing people with any amount of defensive stats mid to late game.
IMO his uncharged Q needs to have a reduced cooldown to at least help with his sustained damage in team fights. It seems kind of odd that the cooldown is SO long on a move without much impact other than being a glorified yasuo Q.
The other thing is that teams haven't adjusted to what he brings to a team. If you have pyke, you NEED someone to guard the ADC and it's definitely not something Pyke can do. ADC deaths are a lot higher in Pyke games, I've noticed.

As a previous diamond struggling in silver / gold elo this season, I concur. It's almost impossible to solo carry a game, your impact as a single player is mitigated too much and you can always just get goon squaded and killed by their high base damages now, armor feels like it does nothing as well.
But somehow if you have a turbo feeder on your team, it can drag the rest of the team down with him. It's like reverse carrying is possible but you can't positively influence a game nearly enough to crank out wins solo like you used to. As you said, it feels like it's down to team RNG more than skill this season, which makes the experience pretty frustrating.

Just build a bunch of items that handicap you severely and put you behind to possibly have a chance at countering what he just does normally. He's not that bad!
Don't forget to call for ganks even though he can just W back to his tower and chunk your jungler for half HP with a double Q on the way out!
Worst case scenario, you can farm under tower while he roams and kills your botlane!