Remember When?

…a few years back when the big panic was all about how Teh Muslims[TM] were out-breeding us and we needed more Christian children. Also how Teh Gummint[TM] was robbing us of the chance to be charitable with its damned social safety nets for the poor and vulnerable (cuz us Christians who put a dollar in the collection plate are just *burning* to out-do Caesar in proving our charitable zeal). So now comes a flood of desperate children with no parents, groping for haven in a strange land and providing a golden opportunity for us to kill two birds with one stone.

Response (primarily from the demographic that self-identifies as “prolife conservative”)?: Cry “Disease laden border crashers!!!” (in the immortal words of one reader), scream at busses of terrified kids, and generally communicate dissent from that whole “I was a stranger and you took me in” thing. Two charming fellows on Facebook, one of whom (the latter) featured a “Massachusetts for Life” link on his page, bore eloquent witness to a somewhat extreme sample of the tenderness and compassion on display for these children:

But this sterling Witness for Life was just advocating a slightly more swift efficiency than his peers. Much of the rest of the “prolife” commentary simply advocated the more hands-off approach of turning the busses around and sending them who cares where as long as it’s not here: effectively abandoning the children to their fate in Mexico, (meaning “being sent back to the desert, sex slavery, or death”). Others were recommending bullets and land mines. A deeply affecting prolife witness.

At some deep level, this kind heartlessness is difficult to live with. So finding a way to blame somebody else for such an appalling response to naked human need became a psychological priority for some. Among many strategies for doing this has been the murky conspiracy theory by which frightened, unaccompanied minors surging north in unprecedented numbers due to desperate conditions at home (typically Central America) are transformed into stooges of a shadowy conspiracy, probably orchestrated by George Soros and Obama, to get parents in these countries to send their children north so that they can make conservatives look bad with their heartless responses to them. (Somebody on FB was seriously suggesting this). Nobody seems to be asking what might prompt thousands of families to be so desperate as to send their children north unaccompanied on the slender hope that if they get across the border, somebody might take them in. The assumption appears to be that poor Latino people are incapable of forming the normal parent/child bonds that we in North Abortica naturally form due to our natural superiority, so these “idiot parents” cynically sell them to Soros/Obama on the cheap for this stunt that is totally being orchestrated by liberals to make conservatives look bad when they respond with wisecracks about Zyklon-B.

Also prominent in the response of many “prolife conservative” readers has been the promotion of Scary Tattoo Thug pictures, which are so much more affirming of the Heartless Response than pictures of desperate frightened children warehoused in border towns.

Another prominent disconnect (aside from “The gummint is evil and private charity can handle everything/We’re being swamped and there’s no way private charity can handle this” contradiction) is the “Government is absolutely inept and cannot possibly help these people”/”Government is vast, well-coordinated conspiracy moving with laserlike precision to organize this crisis for the sole purpose of making conservatives look horrible”. And, of course, there is the disconnect between “Why don’t family-friendly, prolife, hard-working Catholic Latinos vote for conservatives merely because our prolife conservative Catholic rhetoric declares that showing them compassion is tantamount to abortion?” Who can penetrate the mysterious mind of these loathsome, disease-bearing aliens?

Relatedly, nobody gives a lot of thought to the fact that a number of the countries these desperate kids are coming from were client states of the US. Nor that the scary screams of “disease!” that Drudge has been blaring for the past week are referring to things that are cheaply and easily treatable. For the price of a cruise missile or two, we can treat the lot of them. Which is the prolife thing to do with desperate poor children whose family is God knows where.

And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.”

But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road; and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was; and when he saw him, he had compassion, and went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; then he set him on his own beast and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.’ Which of these three, do you think, proved neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?” He said, “The one who showed mercy on him.” And Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.” (Lk 10:25–37)

Indeed. Enforceable borders are supported by catholic doctrine, but these children aren’t exactly attacking us.

freddy

Yes. I keep thinking that if the political right wants to make serious political bucks, they’d be all over this setting up aid stations, opening and staffing shelters, reuniting families and agitating for fast-track citizenship; while crowing gleefully about the power of the American dream and what we can achieve working together.
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Sadly, they’ve been selling fear for so long they’ve forgotten how to think.

IRVCath

Like I said, a good deal of it stems from fear of potential Democratic voters.

If they were good parents and the situation was that dangerous, the last thing that they’d do is turn the child over to some dangerous criminal.

Instead, they’d do the job themselves- and save the whole family.

But that is kind of beside my point: Handing the child over to the smugglers is in and of itself an assignation of guardianship to another human being and an abdication of parental rights. You let somebody else take your kid away- you abdicated your parental rights and duties in that instant.

The reason you did it was very likely quite grave indeed, I can’t imagine doing such a thing. I didn’t even let my son stay overnight with grandparents until he was 11.

D.T. McCameron

“to abdication of parental rights.”

Loosing children into the hands of fiends and the perils of the wilderness and desert notwithstanding.

thisismattwade

I’m ashamed to see that Texas flag in the above Facebook screenshot. I’m proud to be from/live in Texas…most of the time. This is not one of those times.

From the Fox News article:

“‘I don’t think people in that town should be against little kids,’ he said about the protesters in Murrieta. ‘We’re not talking about rapists. We’re talking about human beings. How would they feel if it was their kids?'”

Exactly brother.

IRVCath

Their reasoning, I fear, is simple: the children might grow up to vote Democratic, and thus, presumably, for pro-abortion candidates; therefore for many they should be turned away. It is the consequentialist argument, and yes, it seems a little contrary to church teaching.

Apparently only the “perfect” for some deserve charity in the traditional sense.

Rebecca Fuentes

People have been thingified into votes. They have no intrinsic value except as a way to keep politicians in power.

IRVCath

Oh, it’s not that srark. They say that the politicians need our votes or else even more pro-abortionists will infect our government. So in that framework every undocumented worker who is naturalized is one more vote for abortion and so-called gay “marriage”.

Anna

Wouldn’t we be horrified if neighboring countries turned away Syrian or Sudanese refugees or whomever? So why is it so hard for the American public to grasp that the same atrocities are happening in Latin America and that is why children are making this hugely dangerous trek alone to escape? And we have at least as much responsibility to help these children (and their parents, really) as those other countries have toward their refugees? More responsibility, in fact, because we actually have the resources to help.

D.T. McCameron

“..why is it so hard for the American public to grasp that the same atrocities are happening in Latin America”

How much air time is given to our neighbors, as opposed to affairs on the other end of the planet? American attention is on Arabian deserts, not the narco-state to our south.

Marthe Lépine

Probably because there is more oil in the Middle East than in Mexico! Although I think that there is some oil in Mexico as well.

ivan_the_mad

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

“The New Colossus”, by Emma Lazarus

IRVCath

Apparently the tired, poor huddled masses only count if they pledge to vote Republican.

orual’s kindred

My aunt, who is a nun, spent some years overseas to pursue theological studies. When she was introduced to someone, that person asked if she carried any dangerous diseases. I didn’t realize that concern could be so prevalent. If that sort of thing can be posed to educated adults, then I guess it’s that much easier to treat illiterate, unsophisticated children even worse.

freddy

That’s a good point. However, please don’t think I’m being contrarian, but disease is a real problem. I have relatives in Texas who were told by their doctor that a recent severe illness, uncharacteristic of the usual summer complaints, was likely related to the influx of refugees.
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Of course getting these children medical care as well as meeting all their other needs, and welcoming them with open arms and hearts is the right thing to do. Letting fear dictate our actions is never healthy.

orual’s kindred

Oh, I would hope that both my aunt and I regard disease as a real problem! 😀 I think the mindset that will ask someone they’ve been introduced to if they have any contagious illnesses is something markedly different, and more similar to that being discussed in this post.

freddy

I’m sure you (both) do! And you are right to point out the difference between rational care and fearful ignorance that seems tinged by racism.
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And God bless your aunt. I have a sister who is a nun. They are truly special people!

So are you calling me a liar, my family, or their doctor?
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Did you even take the time to process what I wrote? I think these children are refugees and should be treated with every bit of care and compassion we give our own children. Why are you trying to start a fight?

Dan C

I am saying with clarity that the infectious disease story that has been passed on with all its drama is incorrect. When news reports of these infectious disease outbreaks are discussed, the horrors of scabies is highlighted.

I will make certain that rationale notions of the reputed diseases supposedly and mythically possesses by the children are at worst most likely giardia and scabies. Which is routinely spread through day cares in the states.

There is a rumor of diseases. It is over- dramatic and unreasonable. That story, which is used as an excuse to deport folks, needs to be stopped.

freddy

Well, “Doctor” Dan C., I refuse to be your whipping-girl on this issue. I have family in Texas. They have been through what they have been through, and their physician said what he said. Not giardia. Not scabies. No myth.
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So: fish or cut bait. Are you calling me a liar? My family? Their doctor? Do you think that because places like Fox News are reporting on “the horrors of scabies” you are somehow justified in using me? That’s a bit twisted, you know.
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And just for your record, I think every one of these children should be found and cared for, and their parents should be brought here. I think our country is big enough to handle it.

chezami

Dan is an actual doctor. A pediatrician, in fact. He knows what he’s talking about.

freddy

That’s great, Mark, but he has the obligation of doing me the honor of believing that I know what I’m talking about, that my family know what they’re talking about, and that their doctor knows what he’s talking about. Or, if he thinks one of us is lying, then manning up and saying so.
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He’s demonstrated nothing other than a particularly ugly form of, “Shut up,” he explained. Oh, and by casting doubt on my veracity in order to make his point, he appears to be skating very close to “lying for Jesus.”
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And again, as I’ve said before, we need to take these children in, we need to take their families in, we need to address the problems in our neighbor countries to help them become good neighbors, and we can only do that by opening our hearts, our homes, our borders.
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Sheesh. I get that you’re a busy guy, and I get that Dan’s a buddy of yours, but do take a second to read what I actually wrote. I didn’t start this contretemps in your living room, Mark, but I won’t sit here and take being accused of lying.
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God bless you and Dr. Dan. You’ll be in my prayers tonight.

Bill

Who is calling anyone a liar? I disagree with Dan A LOT but all he’s doing is just being skeptical. That’s not lying. I think you’re being unfair to him. The prayer at the end seems like a passive-aggressive response.

freddy

When I related my family’s experience he called it “nonsense.” Perhaps you’re right, but it seems beyond skeptical to me.
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Also rather amusing that you think I’m the one being unfair. Why? Because I won’t roll over and play dead? Because his cause is just he gets to accuse me of “nonsense” “rumor” “over-dramatic and unreasonable” and of passing along “stories of infectious diseases which are incorrect.”
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Finally, yeah, I don’t care if you think mentioning prayer is passive-aggressive. I’m Catholic. Prayer is all I’ve got.

Dave G.

Isn’t it possible Freddy’s relatives’ doctor is also a doctor who knows what he/she is talking about? Or heck, maybe Kenneth Wolfe has an idea:

“According to Kenneth J. Wolfe, deputy director of public affairs for the Administration for Children and Families at Health and Human Services, children who enter the HHS unaccompanied alien children program are given a well-child exam and vaccinations against communicable diseases. They are also screened for TB and mental health problems, and placed in quarantine or special facilities as needed.

But health care workers at these cramped, overwhelmed centers have not been speaking to the news media, so it is difficult to know exactly which diseases have appeared and how many cases there are. Large outbreaks have been reported of scabies, a highly contagious, intensely itchy rash spread by tiny insects called mites.
…
Drug-resistant tuberculosis also appears to have spread, with several counties in southern Texas reporting twice the usual average number of cases.
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Dengue fever, a potentially deadly mosquito-borne disease that causes fatigue, pain in the bones and muscles, and fever, and infects close to 100 million people worldwide every year, has been detected this year in southern Texas for the first time since 2005. Illegal immigrants, possibly from Mexico, are a likely source. If infected mosquitoes begin to breed here, we could see more outbreaks.

There have been reports of measles and chicken pox at the centers, both of which are highly contagious and can spread to other children who aren’t vaccinated.”

Excerpts from an article in Slate. Enough there to at least suggest that it’s not as open and shut as we might think.

FWIW, the Slate article was by Marc Siegel, a professor of medicine and medical director of Doctor Radio at New York University’s Langone Medical Center.

freddy

Thank you! I’m not a doctor or a medical researcher. All I know is from what my family experienced. My point was never, “Cooties! Eww!” but always that we owe refugee children the care they need. Rational caution good: fear bad.
I really don’t know what’s so hard about that.

Dan C

This medical opinion is in error. One goes to a third world country and one encounters the following:

-mosquito born illnesses. Malaria, dengue, chikyunga

Infestations- lice and scabies

Vaccine preventable diseases- measles, chicken pox

tuberculosis, which most children cannot transmit

HIV, gonorrhea, chlamydia.

Intestinal parasites.

And we exhaust most of the infectious diseases of the impoverished communities of the third world.

Evangelicals invade Mexico and Haiti and Ecuador and Latin America’s poorest nations every year to evangelize it pagan populations. This is what they see and the large number of returning evangelicals (in the thousands) are not thought of as diseased.

There is chikyunga in Austin. But that was introduced in the expected way- by a traveler from the Caribbean.

The expected epidemiology of infectious agents on these immigrants is not a surprise to anyone. TB is the most likely super-serious affliction and the children are unlikely to transmit and it is treatable.

Medical science will await evidence of any other novel infectious agent.

Dave G.

Evangelicals invade?

chezami

When they are on their way to Catholic lands to steal sheep from the Church, yes. Invade is a reasonable description.

Dave G.

Or a relative one. Would that more Catholics put as much zeal into their call to the New Evangelization. I remember a Rabbi interviewed back in the 90s when the SBC made evangelizing the Jewish population a priority. He was asked if he was offended. Nope, he said. It’s our job to raise our children and teach our people. If they convert, we failed. They’re just doing with their faith what we should be doing with our faith.

FWIW, I remember back in the day when one of the macro-themes of this and other Catholic blogs was ‘the wonderful things we can learn from Protestants and Evangelicals’. Not all Catholics see it that way of course. But I appreciated those who did.

Dave G.

correction, I think the SBC initiative might have been in the early 00s. It’s been a long time. I just remember the interview.

freddy

“This medical opinion is in error.”
Fine. So either my family’s doctor is mistaken, incompetent, or, again, lying. Even though you don’t know the particulars, your medical expertise has given you magical powers to make a judgment. ( Reminds me of the old punch line: “No, that’s God; sometimes He thinks He’s a doctor.”)
And you think somehow this justifies your using me to make a point. When in fact, in comment after comment on this thread I have only said, over and over again that fear is no excuse for lack of compassion, and these children should be given the care they need and welcomed into this country. I really don’t know why you’re so bent on fighting with me. It makes no sense.

Rebecca Fuentes

The first report I heard about this was a while ago. There were 60 kids, I think, who had been rescued after being abandoned near the border in the wilderness. I wanted to just go get them and feed them all right then. And more kept coming, and it’s heartbreaking. How bad does life have to be, how dangerous your area, to send a little one off across Mexico (not exactly the safest country) to another foreign country, in the slim hope that the child will survive the trip and be cared for? Can they look at their own children, even their teens, and imagine how awful life would have to be to make them do that?
Even Glenn Beck (who can drive me nuts every day of the week and twice on Sunday), is setting up a fund to help these kids get basic care! I happened across his show as he was reading some of the e-mails from people swearing to never again send him a penny because of it.

Spastic Hedgehog

“How bad does life have to be, how dangerous your area, to send a little one off across Mexico (not exactly the safest country) to another foreign country, in the slim hope that the child will survive the trip and be cared for?”

^^A million times this. I have a 3.5 year old and I cannot imagine sending her into the unknown like that. What is happening in Central America to spur this kind of desperation?

D.T. McCameron

All of a sudden, at that. There’s nothing new about people trying to escape their countries, either as families or individually, but the nature of this particular surge is…strange.

Rebecca Fuentes

I had heard (though in the present state of our country, I feel like I can’t depend on truth from the news), that people are sending kids into Mexico, and Mexico is passing them onto us. Still, it must be bad.

Surely, Mark, as a matter of charity you could consider the possibility that the raging protestors might be people of modest income who have seen their schools, roads, hospitals and other public amenities become ever-more crowded, and their taxes higher, to help pay for the flood of illegal immigrants entering California or other border states? Also, there’s no particular indication that these people are ‘pro-life.’ Even if they were, however, it would not necessarily be inconsistent with objecting to uncontrolled immigration.

We all have an obligation to give alms to the poor and to welcome the stranger, but surely even the best Christians would agree that we must support our own families before we give away all our money to feed the hungry. Equally, should nations not support their own poor – or rather, make sure their poor won’t suffer for it – before they open their borders to the world?

Rebecca Fuentes

Objecting to uncontrolled immigration shouldn’t include suggestions of shooting or gassing immigrants, especially child immigrants. The border areas are having difficulty absorbing and helping these children, and they’ve been hit hard by the nastiness that comes over the border, especially from the drug and sex slave trade, but it doesn’t excuse talking about, joking about or suggesting the murder of immigrant children.

LFM

I read the article Mark linked to but have not seen any comments about shooting or gassing child or adult immigrants, so my comment was not addressed to that issue. I do not support such sentiments or such actions – supposing that the people who wrote such comments intended them to be taken seriously.

In any case, whatever the folly of random blowhards on facebook or elsewhere in social media, that does not change the gravity of the issues involved, especially for those people who live in border states.

Spastic Hedgehog

“supposing that the people who wrote such comments intended them to be taken seriously.”

But it’s okay if they meant it not seriously? No. Even joking about gassing immigrant children (the picture of the comment being at the top of the post) belies an attitude of dehumanization that simply doesn’t fit into the Catholic ethos.

LFM

I was not suggesting that it’s ‘okay’ to make such comments if they were not meant to be taken seriously. I meant that because they were not intended seriously, they need not be taken seriously. There is a difference between that and saying ‘it’s okay’. The danger in such comments, of course, is that the more they increase, the more they become acceptable, until perhaps some people begin to act on them.

Spastic Hedgehog

I think your ultimate statement is what I fear most. And if the discussion I sat through on the 4th of July with family is any indicator, I fear that more people hold that line of thought as acceptable than you may realize.

LFM

I’m Canadian, not American, so I’m not really familiar with popular sentiments about this issue in the US. But when governments for whatever reason fail to enforce the laws as they should, the people who live closest to the problem begin to contemplate taking the law into their own hands. Hasn’t a series of US governments, Republican as well as Democrat, failed to enforce immigration law with any strictness for many years now? I have heard that this was because of a) a perceived need for cheap labour; and b) anxiety about alienating the Latin vote in the US.

One reason I think people have a right to be angry about this issue (short of vigilante violence against illegal immigrants of whatever age) is that Western governments have quite deliberately pursued a policy of bringing in immigrants against the wishes of their own citizens, often as a way to create clients that would help them win elections. I believe that Britain’s Labour Party was compelled to admit as much not long ago, when some internal documents on the subject came to light. One doesn’t have to be conspiracy-minded to object to such antics.

jroberts548

The children were being transferred to a federal immigrant detention center. It’s unclear what the “flood of illegal immigrants using public amenities” has to do with anything, unless detention centers are “public amenities,” which is a bit of a stretch.

LFM

It ought to be clear that I’m talking about the larger problem of illegal immigration from Mexico and Central America, as well as this particular case. Anyway, if these masses of unfortunate children (up to 1000 a week, I understand), with or without their parents, are accepted and given permanent asylum or other legal status in the United States, as Mark seems to imply they should be, they certainly will require shelter, education, jobs and ‘public amenities’ of other kinds.

jroberts548

They weren’t attacking a larger problem. They were attacking a bus full of immigrant children on the way to an immigrant detention center.

LFM

They are LIVING WITH a larger problem, and they attacked a bus that they saw as representative of that problem. Is it not possible that they didn’t know who was in the bus, other than illegal immigrants? I don’t know about you, but I usually can’t see into buses very well; the angle is awkward and the anti-glare glass nearly opaque.

For the record, I don’t support such attacks; I don’t think that’s the way to lodge objections to a policy. But your government on either side of the political spectrum has not so far been very responsive to complaints about the issue from ordinary constituents.

As for it being a busload of ‘immigrant children’, the article Mark linked to spoke of ‘Homeland Security buses carrying illegal immigrant children and families’ not a ‘busload of terrified children’ as Mark describes it. I think your indignation is leading you both to being a bit disingenuous.

jroberts548

As a rule, I don’t attack buses if I don’t know what’s in them.

LFM

And aren’t we righteously superior to the hoi polloi?

jroberts548

To the hoi polloi? No.

To redneck morons that attack random buses full of children? Yes. I would say most people who somehow get through their day without attacking random buses full of children are superior to those redneck morons that attack random buses full of children. Certainly, even if I’m not overall superior, I’m at least superior in terms of having the exceedingly small amount of restraint necessary not to randomly attack a bus full of children.

LFM

Oh for heaven’s sake. The whole point is that this discussion is not or should not be an opportunity to strike moral attitudes that have nothing whatever behind them except vanity and self-righteousness. Can you not grasp that I am not trying to say that any kind of viciousness is acceptable, but that I think the (legal) residents in this case may be nearly as desperate as the incoming migrants? Incidentally, where do you live? I’d be willing to bet it’s not in a border state, or anywhere very near one – except perhaps the Canadian border.

From Victor Davis Hanson’s column in the National Review this morning:

“Who are the bigots — the rude and unruly protestors who scream and swarm drop-off points and angrily block immigration authority buses to prevent the release of children into their communities, or the shrill counter-protestors who chant back “Viva La Raza” (“Long Live the Race”)? For that matter, how does the racialist term “La Raza” survive as an acceptable title of a national lobby group in this politically correct age of anger at the Washington Redskins football brand?

“How can American immigration authorities simply send immigrant kids all over the United States and drop them into communities without firm guarantees of waiting sponsors or family? If private charities did that, would the operators be jailed? Would American parents be arrested for putting their unescorted kids on buses headed out of state?

“Liberal elites talk down to the cash-strapped middle class about their illiberal anger over the current immigration crisis. But most sermonizers are hypocritical. Take Nancy Pelosi, former speaker of the House. She lectures about the need for near-instant amnesty for thousands streaming across the border. But Pelosi is a multimillionaire, and thus rich enough not to worry about the increased costs and higher taxes needed to offer instant social services to the new arrivals.”

Marthe Lépine

Probably, as do other children. Of course, there will be costs for their shelter, education, feeding, etc. But, on the other hand, they are coming to you as replacements for the millions of other children who have been contracepted or aborted to the extent that the populations of many Western countries have such low birth rates that there are prediction that they will be extinct in a few more generation and that the trend seems by now almost irreversible. Nowadays it seems that children are seen as a short-term burden rather than as the citizens of tomorrow.

LFM

They are not coming to me. I am not an American. I agree that the population of many Western nations is suffering for lack of young people, but that does not mean that bringing them in in this fashion will necessarily work to the benefit of either the children or the present population of the United States. Anyway, the fact that there are suddenly large numbers of children immigrating is a distraction from the real problem, which is how to accommodate an already enormous number of migrants without injuring the poor and modestly well off who already live in the US. How many more can that nation absorb?

Then, too, there’s the fact that it’s very likely that the rich tolerate or even encourage this human tide because they want cheap labour and above all (I suspect) cheap servants – gardeners, nannies, cleaners and housekeepers. These are real concerns, not mere paranoid fantasies among nativists.

Nor is it wrong to ask whether there might not be a better way to help such people than by allowing them to enter the US. I was just reading an article in Foreign Affairs about the gang problem in Latin America and how it has led many people to seek shelter in the US. It suggested a number of policies that might help, including using some of the anti-gang techniques that proved effective in cities like Los Angeles and Boston. Such solutions, however, have been stymied by both American political parties, who have their own reasons for wanting to encourage Latin immigration to the US.

T

You know the logic that we can’t handle more people also means that we shouldn’t have more children right?

LFM

I know no such thing. First – who is ‘we’, Kemosabe? I am Canadian, so my views will have no effect on your policies. I’m merely an interested bystander, thinking ‘Holy heaven, I’m glad this isn’t happening to us – yet.’

Second, the fact that the United States cannot absorb near-infinite numbers of destitute foreigners with no education, few skills, and a frantic desire to work for whatever wages are offered, does not mean that it could not support the children of people, native-born or immigrant, who are literate, can afford to pay taxes, have some skills, and are in a position to ask for higher wages than some corrupt boss demands they accept.

For Heaven’s sake, Sir/Madam, think about what you’re saying.

T

You literally just said “we can’t support children, but we can support children.”

LFM

If you can’t see that I said no such thing, you’re either a fool or you’re being deliberately obtuse. Either way, I can see no point in carrying on this discussion.

Cypressclimber

Ah well, around here, sometimes it’s charity for thee, but not for me!

Phillip

And there is this from John Paul II:
“2. Today the phenomenon of illegal migrants has assumed considerable proportions, both because the supply of foreign labour is becoming excessive in comparison to the needs of the economy, which already has difficulty in absorbing its domestic workers, and because of the spread of forced migration. The necessary prudence required to deal with so delicate a matter cannot become one of reticence or exclusivity, because thousands would suffer the consequences as victims of situations that seem destined to deteriorate instead of being resolved. His irregular legal status cannot allow the migrant to lose his dignity, since he is endowed with inalienable rights, which can neither be violated nor ignored.
Illegal immigration should be prevented, but it is also essential to combat vigorously the criminal activities which exploit illegal immigrants. The most appropriate choice, which will yield consistent and long-lasting results is that of international co-operation which aims to foster political stability and to eliminate underdevelopment. The present economic and social imbalance, which to a large extent encourages the migratory flow, should not be seen as something inevitable, but as a challenge to the human race’s sense of responsibility.
3. The Church considers the problem of illegal migrants from the standpoint of Christ, who died to gather together the dispersed children of God (cf. Jn 11:52), to rehabilitate the marginalized and to bring close those who are distant, in order to integrate all within a communion that is not based on ethnic, cultural or social membership, but on the common desire to accept God’s word and to seek justice. “God shows no partiality, but in every nation any one who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him” (Acts 10:34-35).
The Church acts in continuity with Christ’s mission. In particular, she asks herself how to meet the needs, while respecting the law of those persons who are not allowed to remain in a national territory. She also asks what the right to emigrate is worth without the corresponding right to immigrate. She tackles the problem of how to involve in this work of solidarity those Christian communities frequently infected by a public opinion that is often hostile to immigrants.
The first way to help these people is to listen to them in order to become acquainted with their situation, and, whatever their legal status with regard to State law, to provide them with the necessary means of subsistence.
Thus it is important to help illegal migrants to complete the necessary administrative papers to obtain a residence permit. Social and charitable institutions can make contact with the authorities in order to seek appropriate, lawful solutions to various cases. This kind of effort should be made especially on behalf of those who, after a long stay, are so deeply rooted in the local society that returning to their country of origin would be tantamount to a form of reverse emigration, with serious consequences particularly for the children.
4. When no solution is foreseen, these same institutions should direct those they are helping, perhaps also providing them with material assistance, either to seek acceptance in other countries, or to return to their own country.”

Humm Here’s an idea.. The US Gummit has gummit borders defined by their laws. With God, there is only ONE border, that being the seperation between Heaven” and “hell”. In charity (love) we are “called’ to perform Corporal Works of Mercy.
To feed the hungry.
To give drink to the thirsty.
To clothe the naked.
To harbour the harbourless.
To visit the sick.
To visit the imprisoned
To bury the dead.
The Seven Spiritual Works of Mercy can be used the next time, before you vote for someone who doesn’t place their love for God (separation from God, no room for God in Government Policy – Separation of Church & State as the secular world believes rather than what it truly is) above their love for hell.
To instruct the ignorant.
To counsel the doubtful
To admonish sinners.
To bear wrongs patiently.
To forgive offences willingly.
To comfort the afflicted.
To pray for the living and the dead.

That last one can be “Spiritually Dead” too… We are called to live in the spirit. When we do, we see the “world” using these souls, no matter who they may be, as political pawns rather then souls who truly do need help. “I tell you the truth. What you did not do for even the smallest of these, you did not do for me.”