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Re: Chad Ford Chat

No matter how good he's been lately, Paul George won't be getting a max contract until he shows he's better than a healthy Danny Granger when both are healthy. He'll get a nice salary bump, up to something between what Hill and West are making.

Until he takes over their roles in the 4Q, there's no way he's getting close to a max deal.

He's playing well, I'm not complaining. And mostly, he's keeping things interesting until David and George need to make clutch plays.

If that gets him a max, then our salary situation is #$%^ed for a decade.

Remember 2 years ago there was no way Hibbert was getting max but then Falk put the gun to
our head and we blinked.

The Lakers will have a lot a cap space in 2014 and Kobe is talking about retirement and they will
need a wing to pair with Howard...I'm sure they would like to bring PG home and wouldn't blink at a max deal.

Re: Chad Ford Chat

I don't think DJ will be back....Also, if Plumlee is as athletic as they claim, he could very possibly replace Ian at the backup 5, which would save us an additional 4M a year...Dropping both Green and Ian would net us 7.5M a year....Once Danny is back we have no need for Green, Ian would be a bit harder to replace, but I can only assume that is why Plumlee was drafted ahead of his stock....From what I hear, he is putting up decent numbers for the MadAnts, so that could be a real possibility....So without DJ, Green, and Ian, you are looking at 10.5M spending cash....

Looking at your projections, I would say that West is a bit high...I say he gets 4/36M. Lance is on a tear right now, but how long will it hold up....There is no way in hell that he is worth 6M/yr right now....So far he has 1/2 a season that looks promising, and 2 years of bench fodder....He has more to prove, but I see him at 5/20M max....Just those two adjustments nets another 4M/yr

Just those adjustments alone allow for 14.5M more to spend....

Far more likely Plumlee was drafted to replace Hansbrough than a guy who wasn't even on the team when we drafted Plumlee.

Re: Chad Ford Chat

y not? it's not like he's going to get a significant amount of money elsewhere.... I bet he stays

My only point was Hansbrough's contract expires. While both Ian and Plumlee are here for at least 4 years unless there is a trade. So if there is one who is going to be gone in the near future it is Hansbrough, and with the drafting of Plumlee that only makes the likelihood increase. As Plumlee will be cheaper than Hans, and if this team wants to keep the starters together it makes more sense to let Hansbrough go than bring him back as it is much easier to replace a Hansbrough than a Mahinmi. Especially at Mahinmi's price.

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Re: Chad Ford Chat

It is pretty obvious that Danny is not getting traded by the deadline. He has No value. (Injured and not expiring) Also, I think that you guys have said it right, Danny at worst, will be a bench upgrade over Green. I believe when he comes back, that has to be his role for a while. He HAS to prove himself fit to return to the starters role so as to not mess up the chemistry with the starting 5. Danny has to have faith that Frank will bring him back into the first unit when the team needs him there, as he has done with DJ, Lance, etc. One thing I love about Vogel over guys like JOB and Brown is that he will always put the best guys on the floor, regardless of salary or stature.

Re: Chad Ford Chat

Remember 2 years ago there was no way Hibbert was getting max but then Falk put the gun to
our head and we blinked.

The Lakers will have a lot a cap space in 2014 and Kobe is talking about retirement and they will
need a wing to pair with Howard...I'm sure they would like to bring PG home and wouldn't blink at a max deal.

It only takes one offer to force a team's hand.

a) Hibbert was a C, a legit C, a scarce commodity in a market full of "4's" playing "5". The only people suprised by Hibbert's contract, given the amount he progressed, were amateur capologists on fan message boards. While it only takes one team to make a max offer, there were quite a few teams that would've been willing to go there. There was no "gun". There's a big difference between the market for legit 5's and for wing players -no matter how good the wing player might be there are plenty to choose from.

2) Paul George is a wing. A wing that is progressing nicely for his third season. A wing that has shown no signs whatsoever that he's ready to assume clutch duties away from Hill and West in the fourth quarter.

Paul George is taking advantage of being the best wing in our system. We've needed him to step it up and he has. He's been a large part of our success. But he still hasn't been more important that West as a leader, clutch guy, professional; Hibbert for owning the interior defensively (if he ever gets his shooting touch back, to go with his interior presence, he'll be "underpaid"); and Hill for making things go in his own unique way and his own clutch play.

If somebody else wants to give him a max contract, at that point you've got to decide between matching and trading Danny or letting Paul walk. You don't have to make that decision until then.

And I'd love to get the point where we have that problem.

Until then, I'm very happy that Paul is progressing rapidly.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

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Re: Chad Ford Chat

I agree with J, either Paul really explodes and he gets the max (great) or he stays about where he is and he gets Granger type money (also OK with me). I'm not losing any sleep over Paul's contract situation. We will pay him either way, and I don't see his value getting that out of whack.

Re: Chad Ford Chat

Remember 2 years ago there was no way Hibbert was getting max but then Falk put the gun to
our head and we blinked.

The Lakers will have a lot a cap space in 2014 and Kobe is talking about retirement and they will
need a wing to pair with Howard...I'm sure they would like to bring PG home and wouldn't blink at a max deal.

It only takes one offer to force a team's hand.

PG has proven to me that he is WELL WORTH a rookie wage scale MAX, as Hibbert received. And he will get it from us. Many of you seem to worry that we WILL NOT be willing to give him that and he will bolt. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!! Now if we were talking 18 - 25 million as some of the league stars are making, we couldn't do it. But, 13 Mil IS VERY DOABLE, especially with Grangers 14 Mil coming off the books at the same time...

The real SCARY thing is Lance's contract. There is NO WAY he and Danny can be on the same team after next year.If they are essentially playing for the same spot and minutes. Even though they play different positions, PG can play either the 2 or 3 making the other role insignificant, and neither one of those guys is going to be ok with coming off the bench beyond next season. Lance, being an UFA next summer makes it impossible to wait until next season to extend him. Therefore, a decision on Granger's future with the team must be made this offseason.

Those suggesting that Danny is plan B at PF seems extremely unlikely to me considering his injury history as of late. The NBA is tough on the knees anyway, and an undersized PF with knee issues is just a recipe for disaster. His best upside at PF is as a "stretch 4" like Ryan Anderson, but Hibbert isn't good enough offensively right now to hold down the offensive middle alone.

Best case scenario given all the variables involved, IMO, is that we can re-sign West to a 4 year 40 Million Dollar deal this offseason and extend Lance to a reasonable 6 Mil. per deal. Then, next off-season we let Danny walk if he isn't willing to take about 6-7 Mil per as our 6th man. Which I am sure he wont be. And then we have to trade Green...

This gives us at worst, a full 2 year run with our core, completely intact.

Re: Chad Ford Chat

Assuming Granger is healthy (a huge if, but I'm negative-Nancy on the idea that his deteriorating tendon (it's tendinosis, not tendinitis that he has) will magically regenerate to health), you're saying you'd kick him to the curb for Lance?

I don't see that. I'd bring back Granger and get another young wing with promise on a rookie-scale contract.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Chad Ford Chat

and neither one of those guys is going to be ok with coming off the bench beyond next season.

People really need to stop assuming this. Not everyone is Al Harrington or OJ Mayo. Just because a player has skills, and may be good enough to start doesn't mean they wouldn't be willing to come off the bench while still playing significant minutes. Between those two positions there is enough minutes for everyone to average over 30 minutes a game. If Granger plays some PF and/or Lance plays some PG then there is eve more minutes for all of them.

Also, Lance still has a lot to prove before he becomes to expensive to keep.

Re: Chad Ford Chat

PG has proven to me that he is WELL WORTH a rookie wage scale MAX, as Hibbert received. And he will get it from us. Many of you seem to worry that we WILL NOT be willing to give him that and he will bolt. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!! Now if we were talking 18 - 25 million as some of the league stars are making, we couldn't do it. But, 13 Mil IS VERY DOABLE, especially with Grangers 14 Mil coming off the books at the same time...

The real SCARY thing is Lance's contract. There is NO WAY he and Danny can be on the same team after next year.If they are essentially playing for the same spot and minutes. Even though they play different positions, PG can play either the 2 or 3 making the other role insignificant, and neither one of those guys is going to be ok with coming off the bench beyond next season. Lance, being an UFA next summer makes it impossible to wait until next season to extend him. Therefore, a decision on Granger's future with the team must be made this offseason.

Those suggesting that Danny is plan B at PF seems extremely unlikely to me considering his injury history as of late. The NBA is tough on the knees anyway, and an undersized PF with knee issues is just a recipe for disaster. His best upside at PF is as a "stretch 4" like Ryan Anderson, but Hibbert isn't good enough offensively right now to hold down the offensive middle alone.

Best case scenario given all the variables involved, IMO, is that we can re-sign West to a 4 year 40 Million Dollar deal this offseason and extend Lance to a reasonable 6 Mil. per deal. Then, next off-season we let Danny walk if he isn't willing to take about 6-7 Mil per as our 6th man. Which I am sure he wont be. And then we have to trade Green...

This gives us at worst, a full 2 year run with our core, completely intact.

Jamal Crawford has been playing on a 5M per year starting salary his last two contracts. He averaged between 14 and 21 points for 8 years straight before that and is now averaging over 16 ppg this year. OJ Mayo is playing on 4 million dollars a year for the Mavs. He had 2 down seasons off the bench of 11-13 ppg after going for around 18 ppg his first 2 years.

Lance Stephenson is currently averaging a career high 7.8 ppg and 2.6 apg. His role is soon to diminish some as Granger comes back from injury. I know he's playing and shooting much better than Green is, but Green is still scoring a comparable 7.2 pg.

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Re: Chad Ford Chat

I don't know what to think and I will probably do some flip flopping in the near future.

I'm going to look at Danny as he comes back as healthy as he was last year at this point. Either Danny, David or Roy has to go for monies to be within reason or Ian, Green and Hans contract has to be gone. I don't see Ian and Green getting traded as Ian is a good deal and Green isn't going to net anything any better in a trade. Pacers are still going to have to spend 3-5 mil this summer for a backup pg and if DJ keeps it up, I could see him resigned for a 4 year 12 mil deal. I don't see Pacers trying to get a rookie to feel that spot, so even if DJ is gone the same money will have to be spent for someone else, especially with Hill missing games.

So, I'm back to the 3 big contracts. I personally have to think that Danny and Paul can play together and be better then ever. West seems to be important to the team in more ways then just play. Roy is our centerpiece on defense and should be much better on offense. So, who could get us more value for the future of this team without losing a piece we all wished we hadn't lost?

With David here, we have to keep Roy or the interior will be toast and with David here we have a great p&p guy, one of the best in the league. Which, keeps the floor spread enough for driving lanes. I have a hard time seeing Roy and David not playing together, thus making Danny the expendable one. However, we really, really, really need Danny's offense and he plays solid defense.

David is getting into his career ending years and a to big, long of a contract could really strap us for years to come and Danny's big contract will end soon to leave us with flexibility.

I really think Danny should stay and Hibbert needs to be here. So, the only player I fear on keeping and missing out on a great trade for the future is David. He is an expiring and he is playing really good. I just don't want to see him traded and not have him for the playoffs. I'd almost say or want to say, stay pat, let this team complete the mission this year and just let David walk I'm the summer, but I don't want to lose out on valuable assets that can be had for David.

I am so torn, I hope the FO does the right thing and I hope they have a plan that rocks my world in a good way.

I know this is probably confusing, but I am confused on what to do for the betterment of the team

.

Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

Re: Chad Ford Chat

Assuming Granger is healthy (a huge if, but I'm negative-Nancy on the idea that his deteriorating tendon (it's tendinosis, not tendinitis that he has) will magically regenerate to health), you're saying you'd kick him to the curb for Lance?

I don't see that. I'd bring back Granger and get another young wing with promise on a rookie-scale contract.

Ok, so, you want to bring back a guy with a 30 year old questionable knee, to put in the position that removes PG from his natural 3 spot? And let the 21 year old SG with a bright and promising future walk. Who is HOLDING IT DOWN on a contending team...

Re: Chad Ford Chat

Ok, so, you want to bring back a guy with a 30 year old questionable knee, to put in the position that removes PG from his natural 3 spot? And let the 21 year old SG with a bright and promising future walk. Who is HOLDING IT DOWN on a contending team...

Trying to see your logic. You kinda made my point

Acting like they fill the same role is a little naive. Granger has always been a SF/PF kind of player. George really did start off playing as a SG/SF and is now transitioning to more of a SF/SG as he gets stronger. Granger likes to get the ball on the block or on the elbow; George likes to start from the perimeter or "posted up" 18 feet from the basket. They have different styles.

Re: Chad Ford Chat

Ok, so, you want to bring back a guy with a 30 year old questionable knee, to put in the position that removes PG from his natural 3 spot? And let the 21 year old SG with a bright and promising future walk. Who is HOLDING IT DOWN on a contending team...

Trying to see your logic. You kinda made my point

You're starting over with a youth movement?

I'd like to let these guys: Hill, Danny, David, Roy run their course. I think this core can be a contender. I guess if Lance is all of that then maybe its Paul George that is expendable?

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Chad Ford Chat

Jamal Crawford has been playing on a 5M per year starting salary his last two contracts. He averaged between 14 and 21 points for 8 years straight before that and is now averaging over 16 ppg this year. OJ Mayo is playing on 4 million dollars a year for the Mavs. He had 2 down seasons off the bench of 11-13 ppg after going for around 18 ppg his first 2 years.

Lance Stephenson is currently averaging a career high 7.8 ppg and 2.6 apg. His role is soon to diminish some as Granger comes back from injury. I know he's playing and shooting much better than Green is, but Green is still scoring a comparable 7.2 pg.

So what makes you think Lance will get 6 million a year?

Anybody care to bet that with JR Smith expiring after next year, the Knicks won't want to bring back a 22 year old New York high school legend, Lance Stephenson for 6 Mil Per? (Chump Change)As a UFA on the open market, there is NOTHING holding Lance back, and spurning the Pacers for making him play on a sub million dollar contract for the next year.

Hell, several of you have proclaimed him to be one of the Pacer greats by the time he finishes. A 6 Million dollar deal is VERY reasonable for 21 year old, starting, UFA on the open market.

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Re: Chad Ford Chat

6 million per for Lance right now? Wow...no. Love what Lance is doing for the team, but I think his next deal will be Jarrett Jack money tops and Jack just started getting 5 million. I think Lance will probably get a 3 year/12 million deal maybe from the P's maybe from someone else.

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Re: Chad Ford Chat

I think Lance will get signed to a Green-like contract. He's playing very well, but he's not producing jaw dropping numbers to warrant a huge pay increase. If Granger gets traded this offseason and West does not return, I could see Lance getting a larger offensive role next season. Still, I hope the Pacers sign him to an extension this offseason while he'll still be cheap.

First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.