MEGHAN DORSETT: Um, What is your Name?
MEL HANNAH: Melvin James Hannah, you could...
MEGHAN DORSETT: and...
MEL HANNAH: Mel Hannah...
MEGHAN DORSETT: Mel Hannah...
MEL HANNAH: Yeah,
MEGHAN DORSETT: Nice to meet you as we do our oral history interview... for the Cline Library. Um, what Degree did you receive, in what year, and what department, from NAU, or was it ASC?
MEL HANNAH: Um, it was Arizona State College when I attended, two years in nineteen fifty-eight, sixty, and then part of another year. Ah -- I did not get my degree. So it... But I was in then what was then called the business program -- it would have been a business degree. (Unintelligible) Is that my phone? (Unintelligible) Um, so that’s it.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Alright. And so, you went to ASC?
MEL HANNAH: Yes, ASC, Arizona State College
MEGHAN DORSETT: For business.
MEL HANNAH: Mmm-hmmm
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay. Not College of Education?
MEL HANNAH: No
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay. Alright. And when did you graduate?
MEL HANNAH: Um, It would have been sixty-one
MEGHAN DORSETT: Sixty-one
MEL HANNAH: Nineteen sixty-one.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay. Alright. Excellent. Um...
MEL HANNAH: Uh, I had an older brother Bill Hannah, who did go to ASU... ASC, before I did, and he did have a degree in education.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Oh, okay, cool.
MEL HANNAH: He went from fifty-one to fifty-five
MEGHAN DORSETT: Alright, Alright
MEL HANNAH: But he passed a few years ago
MEGHAN DORSETT: Oh, I’m sorry to hear that. Um, What role have you had in education following graduation?
MEL HANNAH: Not any of note in any kind of direct way other than getting pretty active in politics, in Flagstaff and, to a degree, here in Phoenix. Um, so there was a relationship between City Council and school activities... both High School and College levels.
MEGHAN DORSETT: mmm-hmmm
MEL HANNAH: Usually on a... more of a... common objectives aspect than directly in education as a... as an educator. But, that was, that was probably limited to that.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Um, and so, that was in Flagstaff, correct?
MEL HANNAH: mmm-hmmm
MEGHAN DORSETT: Did you collaborate, or go into the schools, or do any partnerships with the schools?
MEL HANNAH: Um... Not that I recall, You know there were, I’m sure, some programs where we may have shared resources such as um, recreational activities, summer programs, summer youth programs
MEGHAN DORSETT: mmm-hmmm
MEL HANNAH: um, things of that sort, but, I don’t recall that we had any real, real contractual, or really direct, um, formal agreements with the schools.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay, alright... Alright, let’s see. What was the physical campus like during the time period that you went to NAU, ASC, and what was Flagstaff like around that time?
MEL HANNAH: Alright, Arizona State College then was obviously a lot smaller in student body than what it has grown to. I think at the time we had maybe less than three thousand full-time students. This was obviously before the South campus and all of that. Also, during those years, um, we were Arizona, the Nation was still under relative discrimination policies, so there were certain aspects of that even in Flagstaff, Arizona, and, to some, degree, not a very great degree, on campus. Um, The town, itself, the Flagstaff, being the setting for ASC, obviously had some of those things, same prospects in terms of, um, racial treatment and things of that nature.
MEGHAN DORSETT: mmm-hmmm
MEL HANNAH: So. It was a pleasant experience, I don’t regret any of my experiences at ASC, and even Flagstaff, for that matter, after ASC, so
MEGHAN DORSETT: Good
MEL HANNAH: So, it wasn’t a bad experience at all.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Good, good. Um, And, What were social outlek, outlets like during that period?
MEL HANNAH: We, we pretty much limited ourselves to campus, there wasn’t a real lively mixing at the community, so to speak, being African American. Um, there were a sizable number of African American students on campus at the time. Quite a few of them there, as I was, on athletic scholarship, so we tended to band together and, you know, commemorate with each other, and all. Um, we would, we would go to, you know, social parties in the community. Um, obviously we would, um, be visiting with (unintelligible) the other gender, the girls, the young ladies, in the community, because there were not many African American young ladies on campus, anyway, at that time. So uh, but you know, it was, it was a fairly, kind of a network among a small group of folks in terms of social activity.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay, alright. Did you explore the out-of-doors while you were up there at all? Did you stay on campus?
MEL HANNAH: Um, not to a great degree. Being born in Northern Arizona, I grew up in Winslow, went to two years at EA, and then came to NA, ASC, but living in Flagstaff, and Northern Arizona, for all those years, you know, we kind of took it for granted. We didn’t, you know, we didn’t, we didn’t, we weren’t the big environmentalists that perhaps some folks around there are these days. We never really got into skiing, or any of the outdoorsy kind of activities, other than, sports: Football, basket, Football, baseball, those kind of things.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Gotcha, gotcha.
MEL HANNAH: So, um. Probably pretty, pretty basic in terms of, any, any real outdoorsy kind of stuff.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay, alright. Um, how would you describe the student population in terms of age, gender, race, or economic status during that time?
MEL HANNAH: Um, my recollection, realizing this is a long time ago (laughs). Is that the age, we were all probably pretty compatible, probably all, you know, in the traditional classes of Freshman through Seniors, and, um, I don’t recall at that point in time that, unlike now, there were a lot of, quote, what we would have then called "older students". Probably the exception may have been, mainly, fellows who may have entered the service, or perhaps had been on missions or things of that sort, that may have been a few years older, but my recollection is that we were probably pretty all in the same basic age group eighteen to twenty-one, twenty-two. Um, racially, predictable. I don’t have a figure per se, or percent, but, very small number of African Americans on campus. Um, again, most were there on athletic scholarship, or quite a few were. Um, we kind of tended to stay in the same dormitories or relatively close to each other. Not many African American young ladies as I mentioned earlier, um, probably, I can remember only three or four during my two years there that were actually students at ASU, uh ASC, NAU now. So, racially, that was kind of the snapshot, um. Economically, probably fairly middle class and below, as far as background or financial status of the students and/or their families.
MEGHAN DORSETT: mmm- hmmm
MEL HANNAH: Um, NAU, in those days, was probably more of a.... a kind of a small school, local school. University, well it wasn’t a university, college, in those days, so it tended to attract those particular types of students...
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay.
MEL HANNAH: So, I am sure, at that time, well, not sure, but, I don’t ever recall a bunch, and don’t have research and those kind of things, you know. I think the student body kind of reflected a middle class or lower economic background from their, from their own personal situation.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay, Why did you choose to go there, and what were your influences?
MEL HANNAH: Well, actually, when I finished my first two years after high school at junior college, what we then called junior colleges. I went to Eastern Arizona, which is in Thatcher, southeastern Arizona. Um, I had been active in sports, and music, in High School, so, um, after going to NA, uh, Eastern Arizona, um, I was on a rare kind of combination scholarship: Music and athletics -- Football and music, which normally don’t go together, because I was in, I played in the band and things of that sort. But I liked it. In fact, my major at Eastern Arizona was in Music, and with a minor in English. And my plan was to really try to continue that combination at a four year school, and ironically the one that I actually found that could do that, there weren’t very many that gave those kind of dual, or combined scholarships...
MEGHAN DORSETT: mmm-hmmm
MEL HANNAH: Um, was one of the Idaho schools, I forget which one. So my plan was, after I finished at Eastern Arizona, was to go to this, I think it was Idaho State, because they had offered me that same type of scholarship. So, planning that, that summer when we finished at Eastern Arizona, I came home to Winslow, which I usually do in the summer, where I grew up, my parents were there, and brothers and sisters, and to work during the summertime, and we all worked on the Santa Fe Railroad back in those days, to earn money, et cetera. So, we did that, which I had done the previous two summers, and fully expected to go to Idaho in August, or so, whenever the season started, you know. However, I, uh, I had a friend that was going to go, as he had planned, to, uh, ASC, and there, on the football scholarship, a guy I had grown up with, and their season started actually a week earlier than our season in Idaho -- their practices started earlier -- so he said ‘Mel, why don’t you come up’, because I had already stopped working for the summer, ‘and just, um, spend that week in Flagstaff in the dorm with me, and you could probably work out with us, and you’ll get an extra week of getting back in shape to play ball’ So I did that, just for, at that time, for that purpose. But, as it worked out, I liked it, and never left, and thirty years later, I was still in Flagstaff. So, It was kind of coincidental that I ended up going to NAU, um, but I did, and I had to drop my music scholarsh- major, and that’s when I changed it to, I think, Business and English, but then just on an full scholarship -- athletic scholarship -- and that was kind of my mechanism for ending up in Flagstaff.
MEGHAN DORSETT: That’s great. Was there no Music program at ASC during that time?
MEL HANNAH: Yeah, yeah, they had the traditional stuff, it’s just that uh, if you were in an instrument music, the expectation was for you to participate in the band. And during the football season, the band’s major function was being at football games, half-time shows and all those kind of things. So, I didn’t really -- I think I had inquired at NAU, maybe lightly, even when I was still at EA, and I don’t know if I was flat out told it couldn’t be done, but it didn’t seem to be too encouraged, so I had never pursued it, and then when I just coincidentally stayed, I don’t think I ever asked about it again.
MEGHAN DORSETT: It would be difficult to wear your band uniform and your football jersey..
MEL HANNAH: That’s right, get to half-time, go out an march and then put the suit back on.
MEGHAN DORSETT: How did you, okay, so you paid for your college experience all through scholarship?
MEL HANNAH: mmm-hmm.
MEGHAN DORSETT: and then did you go back to work during the summers on the railroad at all?
MEL HANNAH: Yeah, yeah, kind of a tradition up there at least, in Winslow particularly, and most youngsters, um, after they get to be over eighteen years old in Winslow particularly, a small town, at the time it was almost the same size as Flagstaff, though, by the way. But yeah, we, in one aspect or another used, most of the youngsters, the guys, in particular, this was before equal opportunity in the state. We all worked in some form or another for Santa Fe Railroad.
MEGHAN DORSETT: And then did that supplement your living cost up here in Flagstaff, or did you give that to family, or?
MEL HANNAH: A little of both, you know, we would save some and use it throughout the school year. And a lot of us, at least I did, would, you know, share it with the family, who was obviously still there in Winslow -- Mother and Father, and younger brother and younger sister.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Nice. Um. How was your experience with housing, during that time? You were in the dorms?
MEL HANNAH: mmm-hmmm
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay, so what was dorm life like?
MEL HANNAH: Uh, it was okay, you know. Realizing, this was before email and computers and phones and TV’s (Laughs). It was just a basic dorm with two per room, and a face bowl, and a bunk bed. But it sufficed, everyone had their own little music of some sort back in those days -- usually records, thirty-three and a third ster- um, I don’t know what you call them anymore, those r, those long playing things. But, again, before phones, but it was a nice atmosphere. There was probably a lot more actual talking to, and relating to, and being networking, et cetera, with folks, because that about the way you had to do it, unless you were a hermit, or something,
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right, right
MEL HANNAH: So, it was, it was lively. You know, we, a lot of teams, players, you know would come together, and even non-players, it wasn’t that we were an exclusive athletic dorm, so it wasn’t that restricted at all. And there was a dorm head resident, who we got along with well, and his wife, and I think they had a kid. And uh, I think maybe between the group I ran with we maybe had one or two vehicles at best that ran at any given time (laughs). So our atmosphere was really there in the dorms, or we spent a lot of time in what was then called the Student Union. Which is where we would go and play ping-pong, pool, had a little snack/restaurant kind of thing.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right, right
MEL HANNAH: So, it was pretty, pretty traditional for those, for that day and age.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Are you amazed at the changes at NAU lately?
MEL HANNAH: (laughs) Oh, yeah...
MEGHAN DORSETT: Even I am (laughs)...
MEL HANNAH: It’s not even... I rode through this last week, as I told you, and I couldn’t even find the football field.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right
MEL HANNAH: It’s almost filled up with stuff growing up all around it
MEGHAN DORSETT: Uh-huh. Growing so much (laughs)
MEL HANNAH: It is. It’s just a whole different world.
MEGHAN DORSETT: (Laughs) Um, What campus traditions were, stand out in your memory during this time?
MEL HANNAH: Um, Obviously, you know, athletically, the football season, and ... that football and basketball were kind of, you know, the major sports, and may still be, even though in that day and age we had baseball, which they no longer have. Um, the chain gang, which, I think they just re-instituted, if you know what that is, it is a kind of elite group of folks that are guys, maybe girls, (laughs) I am not sure, that are, I forget even how they are selected, but I think there are thirteen "lettermen", upper-class lettermen that somehow got designated to be in this body of organization, kind of an early fraternity, I guess so, kind of. But they were called the "chain gang", and they really either had, or assumed, a lot of power and authority over other students -- particularly Freshmen. And they had their special sweaters, and they wore some sort of designation on their sweaters, and if you made that group, you were considered to be really, you know, one of the elite, as far as that atmosphere is concerned.
MEGHAN DORSETT: hmm...
MEL HANNAH: So that was a pretty formal tradition that had been started back in the days, uh. The homecoming (unintelligible), the homecoming football season, the parade, those kind of things, you know, were really highlights of any given year.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay. Alright. You said that you took part in sports?
MEL HANNAH: mmm-hmmm
MEGHAN DORSETT: So could you tell me a little bit about your involvement in sports and any other extracurricular activities?
MEL HANNAH: Yeah, um, football, primarily...
MEGHAN DORSETT: uh-huh
MEL HANNAH: That was my love of life at the time, and um, even though we, we had a track team, it wasn’t really formal, but a lot of us that had participated at track in high school, and then our football coach knew that that was kind of a supplementary thing to football anyway, so we did have, kind of, an unofficial track team. But mainly football. And we had a good football team, we had an outstanding football team. We were, in fact we just had our fiftieth anniversary a couple of years ago at NAU. We were the very first college team in Arizona to appear on national TV at a national bowl game.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Nice.
MEL HANNAH: Before the Wildcats and the Sun Devils and all those other folks,
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right, right
MEL HANNAH: Our football team in my junior year, fifty-eight, um, we played in the national small college championship, in St. Petersburg, Florida --
MEGHAN DORSETT: Excellent
MEL HANNAH: And that was an experience of its own which we all still get together and talk about, highlight things amongst ourselves. There’s maybe a couple dozen of us left that still played on that team. And that was quite an experience for the whole community, the whole town, really got very engaged in that whole process and, uh, we started out the season playing a very highly-rated United States Marine football team, that we beat -- we were undefeated that season -- I don’t think there’s been an undefeated team since.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Nice
MEL HANNAH: So, to get into the playoffs, to be able to play in the National Championship after the regular season, then there were three playoff games that we played teams that were also ranked real high. And so we won our two playoff games and that’s what went and got us into the National Championship where we played a team from Oklahoma and unfortunately we did not win the game, but by that time, it was kind of almost incidental (laughs), just to be able to be there. For a lot of us, that’s the--and we had a team, Meghan, that was, ironically, our coach, he was Max Spilsbury -- He’s highly renowned at NAU, he’s in the NAU hall of fame, as is our team, by the way, the fifty-eight, and a lot of individual players. Max Spilsbury was a very, very, one of the best football coaches, and one of the best men I have ever known, and I doubt if any other player on the team would tell you anything different. And so, when we got to the playoff situation where we finished the season undefeated, and then we were put into this playoff, kind of, tournament, kind of a thing --
MEGHAN DORSETT: mmm-hmmm
MEL HANNAH: Yeah, our coach and our administration at the time at NA-ASC, Dr. Walkup was the president
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay
MEL HANNAH: We knew where that, they knew where that, ultimate, if we kept winning, would result in, it would result in us going to the National Championship in St. Petersburg. And recall, this was in 1958, before equal opportunity and discrimination was, quote (unintelligible). So, the one highlight thing, from a social standpoint that occurred during this football activity was, uh, we had already won, I think, our first playoff game, I think, or maybe just after our full season, where we were undefeated, um, there were, uh, three African Americans, including myself, on that team, uh, and we were called to the President’s office one afternoon (unintelligible), or something like that. And we, we, we asked each other, What’s going on, here? Had we messed up? Are we about to get some kind of penalty? Did we not go to class? Or, any, you know we didn’t know what was going on.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Uh-huh
MEL HANNAH: So, we went to the President’s office, um, Walkup. And, in the president’s office was the president, obviously, and then our football coach, Max Spilsbury, and I think the head assistant, I forget his name. And we still didn’t know what was going on, and they said, you know, ‘come in and sit down, guys’ so we were, you know, like What’s wrong? What did we do? You know, we thought we had done something. But what they went on to explain, Meghan, was that the football team had obviously done extremely well, we were undefeated, and I think we may have won -- no, we hadn’t gotten to the playoffs yet, that was, that was the sequence. And what they wanted to share with us was that they were considering going into the playoffs, or we had been invited to be -- we had been rated one of the top eight teams in the country for small colleges, and so they put those into a pool where they eventually end up with two final people that play each other for the championship, and they said if we do that, Mel, and Randy (who was the other fellow and Jose was the third fellow), um, we would play in this game in St. Petersburg, Florida. And the reason that we wanted to talk to the three of you is that St. Petersburg, Florida is still segregated, and, which wasn’t new, you know, it had been going on for two hundred, three hundred years, it’s that however, what that means to athletic teams, and it wasn’t just us, any teams in before that, was that the African American players could not stay in hotels, um, with white folks, that was just the Jim Crow law,
MEGHAN DORSETT: mm-hmmm
MEL HANNAH: And could not go into restaurants, and had to sit in the back of the bus -- All those kind of discriminatory things that were in existence at the time. The purpose of calling us in there at the time, to share that with us, by our coach and our president, was to let us -- to make sure we were aware of that, again, we realized we had to win two or three games even to get there. And their purpose was to let us know, because we were in Arizona, all three of us had been born in Arizona, I was Winslow, the other guy was from Clifton, and the third fellow was from Yuma, so what little discrimination we may have seen was not any of that blatant as is was in the South, the deep South, during those years. So their purpose, in calling us into the office, was to let us know that that was the situation and that if our team were to get into the playoffs and make it to the top two, that’s the condition we would be under in going to St. Petersburg, Florida. Their question to us three was, ‘We wanted to let you know that, and in all sincerity, which we certainly believed totally, is that you three players do not was to subject yourselves to that kind of treatment, because we know that you have not had that kind of blatant racial reaction in your lives, we won’t go. We will, We will find some other outlet to have a post-season game, or two, other than this playoff that results, of any. And they very candidly posed that question to us, and they said, and ‘Believe it that, you know, if you decide, it’s totally your decision, and we are not trying to pressure you one way or the other. And if you do want to go, that would be fine, but if you do not, no one outside this room would know that we, why we chose to go another direction for some post-season activity. So, we wanted to ask you about that. And so, you know, you need to let us know right now, so think about it and let us know as soon as you can, because we do need to make some preparations. So, we kind of looked at each other and left the room, left the President’s office, and probably fif-ten-fifteen-twenty steps outside the office and stopped and looked at each other and said, Hey, we want to go, we want to play, so we went right back in there and told them, said yes, we understand, and those conditions were fine, well, maybe not fine, but we could handle them, and we went. And uh... Really wasn’t a bad experience, Meghan. I mean, I had never been exposed to that kind of treatment, but I had certainly heard about it. My folks is from Texas, so we would go back to Texas, growing up, for vacations and stuff, so I was exposed to a little bit as a teenager, but um, it was something. We actually, the three of us, and the other team that we played was Northeastern Oklahoma had one African American on their team. We actually stayed at a private home in St. Petersburg
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay
MEL HANNAH: Where we lived, the four of us. We actually -- the three of our players and their one player -- actually lived together for that two week period, and then the house next door were an African American family, prepared all our meals. So, we stayed at this house and we ate at this house. And then for practice, up to the game, they would send cabs for us, taxi cabs, and we’d get in our cab and go to our practice, and he’d get in his cab and go to his practice. And at the end of the day we would come and eat together, and all those kind of things. And, uh, we had our own little social activity there. There was a, people don’t believe this part, but I guarantee it is true, about two, maybe three blocks from where we were living in this private home, there was a, back then those schools were segregated, obviously, particularly down there. There was an African American, female Junior college about three blocks from where we were living.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Nice
MEL HANNAH: And it was just young ladies all there -- young black ladies. Not that anything weird or crazy happened, it’s just that network --
MEGHAN DORSETT: (Laughing) you go from four to hundreds
MEL HANNAH: So, uh, we had a good time. I’m not trying to defend segregation, but we had a nice time, and uh, it didn’t bother us at all.
MEGHAN DORSETT: When life gives you lemons, make lemonade, right
MEL HANNAH: Yep, that’s right. And, in fact, flying down there -- at the time, Flagstaff didn’t even have an airport -- a lot of us had never flown, so we flew in a prop, a big old military plane, passenger military plane. And we had to drive to Winslow, because at that time Winslow had an airstrip, runway, long enough for that size of airplane. And there were a lot of us that had never flown. And so that was an experience. And when we got to, we stopped at, going over, some place in Louisiana for lunch, and, so we landed at the airport, and all get off the plane as a team, and we go into this restaurant, and I didn’t really realize it until a little bit later, um , because that was also discrimination so you couldn’t, you weren’t supposed to eat together, but what they had done, they had separated fence, placed a big, bamboo partition in the public restaurant where our team ate behind, all together, but we ate behind the restaurant so we weren’t exposed to their normal customers. And that was alright at the time. But we came out, just standing around, you know, after we’d eaten, and, uh, every team has its comic, and we had a little fellow from Yuma, named Frankie Thomas, still alive. We were just standing around out there, and this was still when they had the "white" water fountains, "colored" water fountains, "white" restrooms, "colored" restrooms. And We were just standing around all mixed, with our teammates, and we kind of noticed Frankie was short, out, kind of over there in a different part of airport restaurant. Not really paying attention to him, but we knew he was over there, and we heard him calling "psst" and we "What is it Frankie?", and he said "you guys" and right there he was at the fountains and one was white and one was colored, and he says "I tasted this colored water, and it tastes just like ours" (laughs). We said Frankie get your own water, you’re gonna get us hung. So, we get back on the plane and went on down to, uh there. Anyway, our team, very good team, we felt, we knew we were the best team in Arizona that year. We, our coach tried to finagle anything he could to play the Sun Devils and/or the Wildcats, because we knew we could beat them, back in that day.
MEGHAN DORSETT: And did they--?
MEL HANNAH: Nah, they, and he knew they really couldn’t, but it was fun just to call them
MEGHAN DORSETT: Awww, what a bummer! (laughs)
MEL HANNAH: Yeah, our coach even told, ah, the coach of ASU, they were ASC, too, at that time, was Frank Kush, their legendary coach, and our coach knew him, obviously, he said Frank, we don’t even have to have an official game. Let’s just meet in Camp Verde, you drive down, we’ll get a high school field, and play in the afternoon, we’ll turn the lights on, we’ll just have a scrimmage game, and let’s see what our boys can do against your boys... but, you know, it legally couldn’t have happened, but it was a nice thought.
MEGHAN DORSETT: awww...
MEL HANNAH: But, we knew we could beat them. Anyway, that’s my, that was the football atmosphere.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Well, that’s an excellent story, thank you. If you could reflect on some academics, like what kind of teachers you had, classes, educational experiences.
MEL HANNAH: Okay. I don’t remember a whole lot of specifics, uh, but I do recall that there were no such things--as you had mentioned earlier about how changes are -- there weren’t big classes. And I don’t know if that was because, by design or just the number of students. There weren’t, the classes were always manageable in size, from my experience. And, my recollection of the, of the professors was that they, they always seemed to be readily available. I mean, if ya, if you had some need outside the class, and even though a lot of us were on athletic scholarships, you know, it wasn’t a "big dumb jock" kind of a thing, so, uh, you know, my, my, recollection was that folks, you know, were academically very capable, and uh, but by the same token, you know, I, I never heard anybody complain that they didn’t have access to professors or didn’t get help when they needed it, or, if they did get behind, they knew how to get back up.
MEGHAN DORSETT: mmm-hmm
MEL HANNAH: So, um, my, my recollection from, from that part, which isn’t much in detail is that it, it, it’s good. Good reflection, good, good experience, as I recall.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Good, good. Um. Do you remember any faculty, staff, or administrators, besides your coaches, that stick out?
MEL HANNAH: Yeah, there, there’s a fellow still there who, who was very active in, in sports, because he had been an athlete himself, at the time. He’s Dean Joe Rolle.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay...
MEL HANNAH: And, Joe, I think I just read -- he was at our last reunion -- um, I think he’s about eighty-something now, at least. He, he, I remember Joe. President Walkup, my, because, you know, mainly because of the football incident where they were very candid, and we felt they were real in what they exposed us to. Um, there was a, when I was in business, and you know, business, business was a very generic kind of a class, they didn’t have these specialties and all they got now -- it’s just business, that was the degree you can get. I remember the professor in there that I recall the most was a guy named Frank E- named, uh-- oh man, it just slipped me, but, but there’s another guy, Doctor Frank Bassinet, uh, he had been too long retired, I think, from NAU. I forget what -- I think Frank was in business. Um, who else? We all had to take P.E., and I think P.E. we took under, uh, who, the guy who happened to be the basketball coach, Herb Greg. He had been on campus for years. In fact, he had, he had coached my older brother in basketball, when he went there, years before, a few years before. So... That’s kind of my recollection on faculty folk.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay. Alright. Now we’re going to discuss the impact of you college experience. Um, and so, I think we’ve discussed your clearest and most memorable experiences of your college years. Can you think of anything else?
MEL HANNAH: ...
MEGHAN DORSETT: That football game is huge.
MEL HANNAH: Yeah, Yeah.... Uh, nothing specific, other than, again, realizing that these were times of civil and somewhat racial unrest, so to speak, um. It didn’t seem to penetrate the campus, or it didn’t seem to exist in any serious form on campus, uh, I don’t recall that we had any kind of slurs, or any kind of a hint of a physical reaction to any other student-folks, or colored students.
MEGHAN DORSETT: That’s nice.
MEL HANNAH: Um, so..yeah, so I don’t know if it’s just...
MEGHAN DORSETT: ...you felt comfortable...
MEL HANNAH: ...yeah, felt comfortable, that might be the best way to describe it...
MEGHAN DORSETT: That’s good...
MEL HANNAH: And, uh, and, you know, so, so since we didn’t feel it or sense it, um, we didn’t have reason to think anything about it, other than that was quote " the way it was supposed to be"
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right, right
MEL HANNAH: So, you have to look back on it now and kind of assess that well, hey, we didn’t have that, did we? and the answer is No we didn’t.
MEGHAN DORSETT: (laughs) Looking at your whole college experience, how did ASC impact your professional life?
MEL HANNAH: Um, ASC probably helped instill in me some things that, later I perhaps, kind of, drew on, and that was an acknowledgement, I guess, or a realization that you kind of can, you kind of can step up and step out. You know, I probably wouldn’t have described it, during the time, in this way, but, um, I think having to, and even EA -- I went to school in Thatcher, where we were less of a minority. I mean, more of a minority there than even ASU, ASC, um, and not only in a racial context, but at the time I went to Eastern Arizona, it was primarily a, almost a prep school for BYU. I mean, and it was a Bringham, a Morman, derive-driven institution. And, you know, in Winslow, growing up, was Mormons and Protestants and everybody else, so it really, we didn’t make any major distinction, but um, at EA, and then, to a degree, at Arizona State, um, you have to acquire, and now looking back on it, some skills in terms of how to relate, communicate, and work together, when there are perhaps, some differences, in terms of, um, political situations or social situations, and all those kind of things, which are part of life. So, I think part of my college experience, at those times, kind of help develop that kind of skill, if you will, us, in myself; leadership skills, they may be called. And that I drew on later when I got relatively active in community and social and political activities.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right, Very good. Okey-dokey. How about your personal life?
MEL HANNAH: Um, I met my first wife when I was at NAU, Arizona State College, so that certainly had its own... benefits. Uh, Met her when I was in my first year there, and we were married probably a year after I left NAU. We had three beautiful kids, still do, she passed, um, she died around ten, fifteen, or twenty years ago. So, on that personal sign, that was a great asset to Mel Hannah, to my existence, my peace and tranquility (laughs)
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right, right.
MEL HANNAH: Um, And, you know another thing, with the town of Flagstaff. Um, NAU then and perhaps now was, you know, a big portion of the community, a big part of the community. And so, if you, if NAU was doing well -- not if, it always does well, but athletically, for example, the team that we had, you know we certainly made a lasting impact, both as a team and individuals, with the community, that even then, we probably didn’t realize. So, later on, as I chose to stay in Flagstaff, got married, and raised kids. You know, a lot of the, um, a lot of the town folks, community folks, um, could still, you know, would still relate with that, that recognition, that acknowledgement. So, you know, that just makes things, made things even more pleasant.
MEGHAN DORSETT: That’s great, that was great. Um, is there anything else that you’d like to share for the interview?
MEL HANNAH: Um, just , just kind of a continuation, long after I was a student, I just continued to be, um, very impressed with NAU, as it transitioned from ASC to NAU. Um, I’ve, In my early days, In my days there, in politics, so to speak, or on the city council, and even the years I worked for a major nonprofit, called NACOG, I’ve always been impressed with the relationship, and the attitude of NAU, from the president on down, um, their willingness to work with the community, and be active in the community. And not just an academic institute, sitting on the hill. They always had that sense of reaching out, becoming a part of, and networking with. And, I guess my first experience was with Dr. Hughes, who was president for a number of years. Just that, he had personally illustrated and exhibited those kind of characteristics. And even now, when I’ve left -- I go back periodically, but even other kind of programs and things that I’ve become engaged in, that kind of participation and all still exists. And the president now, John Hager, I know pretty well, and has the same attitude, the same compassion, the same kind of outlook and desire to really be a positive impact in the community. So, I’ve been, over the years, um, really impressed with that aspect of NAU. And that’s not to say that ASU or U of A may be doing the same thing, but I just don’t know that, so. I can speak for and talk to NAU’s credibility, from my standpoint.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right, right. Okay. Well, thank you very much Mr. Hannah.
MEL HANNAH: Okay, you’re welcome, Miss, Meghan -- Chapel? What was your last name?
MEGHAN DORSETT: Dorsett
MEL HANNAH: Dorsett

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MEGHAN DORSETT: Um, What is your Name?
MEL HANNAH: Melvin James Hannah, you could...
MEGHAN DORSETT: and...
MEL HANNAH: Mel Hannah...
MEGHAN DORSETT: Mel Hannah...
MEL HANNAH: Yeah,
MEGHAN DORSETT: Nice to meet you as we do our oral history interview... for the Cline Library. Um, what Degree did you receive, in what year, and what department, from NAU, or was it ASC?
MEL HANNAH: Um, it was Arizona State College when I attended, two years in nineteen fifty-eight, sixty, and then part of another year. Ah -- I did not get my degree. So it... But I was in then what was then called the business program -- it would have been a business degree. (Unintelligible) Is that my phone? (Unintelligible) Um, so that’s it.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Alright. And so, you went to ASC?
MEL HANNAH: Yes, ASC, Arizona State College
MEGHAN DORSETT: For business.
MEL HANNAH: Mmm-hmmm
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay. Not College of Education?
MEL HANNAH: No
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay. Alright. And when did you graduate?
MEL HANNAH: Um, It would have been sixty-one
MEGHAN DORSETT: Sixty-one
MEL HANNAH: Nineteen sixty-one.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay. Alright. Excellent. Um...
MEL HANNAH: Uh, I had an older brother Bill Hannah, who did go to ASU... ASC, before I did, and he did have a degree in education.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Oh, okay, cool.
MEL HANNAH: He went from fifty-one to fifty-five
MEGHAN DORSETT: Alright, Alright
MEL HANNAH: But he passed a few years ago
MEGHAN DORSETT: Oh, I’m sorry to hear that. Um, What role have you had in education following graduation?
MEL HANNAH: Not any of note in any kind of direct way other than getting pretty active in politics, in Flagstaff and, to a degree, here in Phoenix. Um, so there was a relationship between City Council and school activities... both High School and College levels.
MEGHAN DORSETT: mmm-hmmm
MEL HANNAH: Usually on a... more of a... common objectives aspect than directly in education as a... as an educator. But, that was, that was probably limited to that.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Um, and so, that was in Flagstaff, correct?
MEL HANNAH: mmm-hmmm
MEGHAN DORSETT: Did you collaborate, or go into the schools, or do any partnerships with the schools?
MEL HANNAH: Um... Not that I recall, You know there were, I’m sure, some programs where we may have shared resources such as um, recreational activities, summer programs, summer youth programs
MEGHAN DORSETT: mmm-hmmm
MEL HANNAH: um, things of that sort, but, I don’t recall that we had any real, real contractual, or really direct, um, formal agreements with the schools.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay, alright... Alright, let’s see. What was the physical campus like during the time period that you went to NAU, ASC, and what was Flagstaff like around that time?
MEL HANNAH: Alright, Arizona State College then was obviously a lot smaller in student body than what it has grown to. I think at the time we had maybe less than three thousand full-time students. This was obviously before the South campus and all of that. Also, during those years, um, we were Arizona, the Nation was still under relative discrimination policies, so there were certain aspects of that even in Flagstaff, Arizona, and, to some, degree, not a very great degree, on campus. Um, The town, itself, the Flagstaff, being the setting for ASC, obviously had some of those things, same prospects in terms of, um, racial treatment and things of that nature.
MEGHAN DORSETT: mmm-hmmm
MEL HANNAH: So. It was a pleasant experience, I don’t regret any of my experiences at ASC, and even Flagstaff, for that matter, after ASC, so
MEGHAN DORSETT: Good
MEL HANNAH: So, it wasn’t a bad experience at all.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Good, good. Um, And, What were social outlek, outlets like during that period?
MEL HANNAH: We, we pretty much limited ourselves to campus, there wasn’t a real lively mixing at the community, so to speak, being African American. Um, there were a sizable number of African American students on campus at the time. Quite a few of them there, as I was, on athletic scholarship, so we tended to band together and, you know, commemorate with each other, and all. Um, we would, we would go to, you know, social parties in the community. Um, obviously we would, um, be visiting with (unintelligible) the other gender, the girls, the young ladies, in the community, because there were not many African American young ladies on campus, anyway, at that time. So uh, but you know, it was, it was a fairly, kind of a network among a small group of folks in terms of social activity.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay, alright. Did you explore the out-of-doors while you were up there at all? Did you stay on campus?
MEL HANNAH: Um, not to a great degree. Being born in Northern Arizona, I grew up in Winslow, went to two years at EA, and then came to NA, ASC, but living in Flagstaff, and Northern Arizona, for all those years, you know, we kind of took it for granted. We didn’t, you know, we didn’t, we didn’t, we weren’t the big environmentalists that perhaps some folks around there are these days. We never really got into skiing, or any of the outdoorsy kind of activities, other than, sports: Football, basket, Football, baseball, those kind of things.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Gotcha, gotcha.
MEL HANNAH: So, um. Probably pretty, pretty basic in terms of, any, any real outdoorsy kind of stuff.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay, alright. Um, how would you describe the student population in terms of age, gender, race, or economic status during that time?
MEL HANNAH: Um, my recollection, realizing this is a long time ago (laughs). Is that the age, we were all probably pretty compatible, probably all, you know, in the traditional classes of Freshman through Seniors, and, um, I don’t recall at that point in time that, unlike now, there were a lot of, quote, what we would have then called "older students". Probably the exception may have been, mainly, fellows who may have entered the service, or perhaps had been on missions or things of that sort, that may have been a few years older, but my recollection is that we were probably pretty all in the same basic age group eighteen to twenty-one, twenty-two. Um, racially, predictable. I don’t have a figure per se, or percent, but, very small number of African Americans on campus. Um, again, most were there on athletic scholarship, or quite a few were. Um, we kind of tended to stay in the same dormitories or relatively close to each other. Not many African American young ladies as I mentioned earlier, um, probably, I can remember only three or four during my two years there that were actually students at ASU, uh ASC, NAU now. So, racially, that was kind of the snapshot, um. Economically, probably fairly middle class and below, as far as background or financial status of the students and/or their families.
MEGHAN DORSETT: mmm- hmmm
MEL HANNAH: Um, NAU, in those days, was probably more of a.... a kind of a small school, local school. University, well it wasn’t a university, college, in those days, so it tended to attract those particular types of students...
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay.
MEL HANNAH: So, I am sure, at that time, well, not sure, but, I don’t ever recall a bunch, and don’t have research and those kind of things, you know. I think the student body kind of reflected a middle class or lower economic background from their, from their own personal situation.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay, Why did you choose to go there, and what were your influences?
MEL HANNAH: Well, actually, when I finished my first two years after high school at junior college, what we then called junior colleges. I went to Eastern Arizona, which is in Thatcher, southeastern Arizona. Um, I had been active in sports, and music, in High School, so, um, after going to NA, uh, Eastern Arizona, um, I was on a rare kind of combination scholarship: Music and athletics -- Football and music, which normally don’t go together, because I was in, I played in the band and things of that sort. But I liked it. In fact, my major at Eastern Arizona was in Music, and with a minor in English. And my plan was to really try to continue that combination at a four year school, and ironically the one that I actually found that could do that, there weren’t very many that gave those kind of dual, or combined scholarships...
MEGHAN DORSETT: mmm-hmmm
MEL HANNAH: Um, was one of the Idaho schools, I forget which one. So my plan was, after I finished at Eastern Arizona, was to go to this, I think it was Idaho State, because they had offered me that same type of scholarship. So, planning that, that summer when we finished at Eastern Arizona, I came home to Winslow, which I usually do in the summer, where I grew up, my parents were there, and brothers and sisters, and to work during the summertime, and we all worked on the Santa Fe Railroad back in those days, to earn money, et cetera. So, we did that, which I had done the previous two summers, and fully expected to go to Idaho in August, or so, whenever the season started, you know. However, I, uh, I had a friend that was going to go, as he had planned, to, uh, ASC, and there, on the football scholarship, a guy I had grown up with, and their season started actually a week earlier than our season in Idaho -- their practices started earlier -- so he said ‘Mel, why don’t you come up’, because I had already stopped working for the summer, ‘and just, um, spend that week in Flagstaff in the dorm with me, and you could probably work out with us, and you’ll get an extra week of getting back in shape to play ball’ So I did that, just for, at that time, for that purpose. But, as it worked out, I liked it, and never left, and thirty years later, I was still in Flagstaff. So, It was kind of coincidental that I ended up going to NAU, um, but I did, and I had to drop my music scholarsh- major, and that’s when I changed it to, I think, Business and English, but then just on an full scholarship -- athletic scholarship -- and that was kind of my mechanism for ending up in Flagstaff.
MEGHAN DORSETT: That’s great. Was there no Music program at ASC during that time?
MEL HANNAH: Yeah, yeah, they had the traditional stuff, it’s just that uh, if you were in an instrument music, the expectation was for you to participate in the band. And during the football season, the band’s major function was being at football games, half-time shows and all those kind of things. So, I didn’t really -- I think I had inquired at NAU, maybe lightly, even when I was still at EA, and I don’t know if I was flat out told it couldn’t be done, but it didn’t seem to be too encouraged, so I had never pursued it, and then when I just coincidentally stayed, I don’t think I ever asked about it again.
MEGHAN DORSETT: It would be difficult to wear your band uniform and your football jersey..
MEL HANNAH: That’s right, get to half-time, go out an march and then put the suit back on.
MEGHAN DORSETT: How did you, okay, so you paid for your college experience all through scholarship?
MEL HANNAH: mmm-hmm.
MEGHAN DORSETT: and then did you go back to work during the summers on the railroad at all?
MEL HANNAH: Yeah, yeah, kind of a tradition up there at least, in Winslow particularly, and most youngsters, um, after they get to be over eighteen years old in Winslow particularly, a small town, at the time it was almost the same size as Flagstaff, though, by the way. But yeah, we, in one aspect or another used, most of the youngsters, the guys, in particular, this was before equal opportunity in the state. We all worked in some form or another for Santa Fe Railroad.
MEGHAN DORSETT: And then did that supplement your living cost up here in Flagstaff, or did you give that to family, or?
MEL HANNAH: A little of both, you know, we would save some and use it throughout the school year. And a lot of us, at least I did, would, you know, share it with the family, who was obviously still there in Winslow -- Mother and Father, and younger brother and younger sister.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Nice. Um. How was your experience with housing, during that time? You were in the dorms?
MEL HANNAH: mmm-hmmm
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay, so what was dorm life like?
MEL HANNAH: Uh, it was okay, you know. Realizing, this was before email and computers and phones and TV’s (Laughs). It was just a basic dorm with two per room, and a face bowl, and a bunk bed. But it sufficed, everyone had their own little music of some sort back in those days -- usually records, thirty-three and a third ster- um, I don’t know what you call them anymore, those r, those long playing things. But, again, before phones, but it was a nice atmosphere. There was probably a lot more actual talking to, and relating to, and being networking, et cetera, with folks, because that about the way you had to do it, unless you were a hermit, or something,
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right, right
MEL HANNAH: So, it was, it was lively. You know, we, a lot of teams, players, you know would come together, and even non-players, it wasn’t that we were an exclusive athletic dorm, so it wasn’t that restricted at all. And there was a dorm head resident, who we got along with well, and his wife, and I think they had a kid. And uh, I think maybe between the group I ran with we maybe had one or two vehicles at best that ran at any given time (laughs). So our atmosphere was really there in the dorms, or we spent a lot of time in what was then called the Student Union. Which is where we would go and play ping-pong, pool, had a little snack/restaurant kind of thing.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right, right
MEL HANNAH: So, it was pretty, pretty traditional for those, for that day and age.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Are you amazed at the changes at NAU lately?
MEL HANNAH: (laughs) Oh, yeah...
MEGHAN DORSETT: Even I am (laughs)...
MEL HANNAH: It’s not even... I rode through this last week, as I told you, and I couldn’t even find the football field.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right
MEL HANNAH: It’s almost filled up with stuff growing up all around it
MEGHAN DORSETT: Uh-huh. Growing so much (laughs)
MEL HANNAH: It is. It’s just a whole different world.
MEGHAN DORSETT: (Laughs) Um, What campus traditions were, stand out in your memory during this time?
MEL HANNAH: Um, Obviously, you know, athletically, the football season, and ... that football and basketball were kind of, you know, the major sports, and may still be, even though in that day and age we had baseball, which they no longer have. Um, the chain gang, which, I think they just re-instituted, if you know what that is, it is a kind of elite group of folks that are guys, maybe girls, (laughs) I am not sure, that are, I forget even how they are selected, but I think there are thirteen "lettermen", upper-class lettermen that somehow got designated to be in this body of organization, kind of an early fraternity, I guess so, kind of. But they were called the "chain gang", and they really either had, or assumed, a lot of power and authority over other students -- particularly Freshmen. And they had their special sweaters, and they wore some sort of designation on their sweaters, and if you made that group, you were considered to be really, you know, one of the elite, as far as that atmosphere is concerned.
MEGHAN DORSETT: hmm...
MEL HANNAH: So that was a pretty formal tradition that had been started back in the days, uh. The homecoming (unintelligible), the homecoming football season, the parade, those kind of things, you know, were really highlights of any given year.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay. Alright. You said that you took part in sports?
MEL HANNAH: mmm-hmmm
MEGHAN DORSETT: So could you tell me a little bit about your involvement in sports and any other extracurricular activities?
MEL HANNAH: Yeah, um, football, primarily...
MEGHAN DORSETT: uh-huh
MEL HANNAH: That was my love of life at the time, and um, even though we, we had a track team, it wasn’t really formal, but a lot of us that had participated at track in high school, and then our football coach knew that that was kind of a supplementary thing to football anyway, so we did have, kind of, an unofficial track team. But mainly football. And we had a good football team, we had an outstanding football team. We were, in fact we just had our fiftieth anniversary a couple of years ago at NAU. We were the very first college team in Arizona to appear on national TV at a national bowl game.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Nice.
MEL HANNAH: Before the Wildcats and the Sun Devils and all those other folks,
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right, right
MEL HANNAH: Our football team in my junior year, fifty-eight, um, we played in the national small college championship, in St. Petersburg, Florida --
MEGHAN DORSETT: Excellent
MEL HANNAH: And that was an experience of its own which we all still get together and talk about, highlight things amongst ourselves. There’s maybe a couple dozen of us left that still played on that team. And that was quite an experience for the whole community, the whole town, really got very engaged in that whole process and, uh, we started out the season playing a very highly-rated United States Marine football team, that we beat -- we were undefeated that season -- I don’t think there’s been an undefeated team since.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Nice
MEL HANNAH: So, to get into the playoffs, to be able to play in the National Championship after the regular season, then there were three playoff games that we played teams that were also ranked real high. And so we won our two playoff games and that’s what went and got us into the National Championship where we played a team from Oklahoma and unfortunately we did not win the game, but by that time, it was kind of almost incidental (laughs), just to be able to be there. For a lot of us, that’s the--and we had a team, Meghan, that was, ironically, our coach, he was Max Spilsbury -- He’s highly renowned at NAU, he’s in the NAU hall of fame, as is our team, by the way, the fifty-eight, and a lot of individual players. Max Spilsbury was a very, very, one of the best football coaches, and one of the best men I have ever known, and I doubt if any other player on the team would tell you anything different. And so, when we got to the playoff situation where we finished the season undefeated, and then we were put into this playoff, kind of, tournament, kind of a thing --
MEGHAN DORSETT: mmm-hmmm
MEL HANNAH: Yeah, our coach and our administration at the time at NA-ASC, Dr. Walkup was the president
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay
MEL HANNAH: We knew where that, they knew where that, ultimate, if we kept winning, would result in, it would result in us going to the National Championship in St. Petersburg. And recall, this was in 1958, before equal opportunity and discrimination was, quote (unintelligible). So, the one highlight thing, from a social standpoint that occurred during this football activity was, uh, we had already won, I think, our first playoff game, I think, or maybe just after our full season, where we were undefeated, um, there were, uh, three African Americans, including myself, on that team, uh, and we were called to the President’s office one afternoon (unintelligible), or something like that. And we, we, we asked each other, What’s going on, here? Had we messed up? Are we about to get some kind of penalty? Did we not go to class? Or, any, you know we didn’t know what was going on.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Uh-huh
MEL HANNAH: So, we went to the President’s office, um, Walkup. And, in the president’s office was the president, obviously, and then our football coach, Max Spilsbury, and I think the head assistant, I forget his name. And we still didn’t know what was going on, and they said, you know, ‘come in and sit down, guys’ so we were, you know, like What’s wrong? What did we do? You know, we thought we had done something. But what they went on to explain, Meghan, was that the football team had obviously done extremely well, we were undefeated, and I think we may have won -- no, we hadn’t gotten to the playoffs yet, that was, that was the sequence. And what they wanted to share with us was that they were considering going into the playoffs, or we had been invited to be -- we had been rated one of the top eight teams in the country for small colleges, and so they put those into a pool where they eventually end up with two final people that play each other for the championship, and they said if we do that, Mel, and Randy (who was the other fellow and Jose was the third fellow), um, we would play in this game in St. Petersburg, Florida. And the reason that we wanted to talk to the three of you is that St. Petersburg, Florida is still segregated, and, which wasn’t new, you know, it had been going on for two hundred, three hundred years, it’s that however, what that means to athletic teams, and it wasn’t just us, any teams in before that, was that the African American players could not stay in hotels, um, with white folks, that was just the Jim Crow law,
MEGHAN DORSETT: mm-hmmm
MEL HANNAH: And could not go into restaurants, and had to sit in the back of the bus -- All those kind of discriminatory things that were in existence at the time. The purpose of calling us in there at the time, to share that with us, by our coach and our president, was to let us -- to make sure we were aware of that, again, we realized we had to win two or three games even to get there. And their purpose was to let us know, because we were in Arizona, all three of us had been born in Arizona, I was Winslow, the other guy was from Clifton, and the third fellow was from Yuma, so what little discrimination we may have seen was not any of that blatant as is was in the South, the deep South, during those years. So their purpose, in calling us into the office, was to let us know that that was the situation and that if our team were to get into the playoffs and make it to the top two, that’s the condition we would be under in going to St. Petersburg, Florida. Their question to us three was, ‘We wanted to let you know that, and in all sincerity, which we certainly believed totally, is that you three players do not was to subject yourselves to that kind of treatment, because we know that you have not had that kind of blatant racial reaction in your lives, we won’t go. We will, We will find some other outlet to have a post-season game, or two, other than this playoff that results, of any. And they very candidly posed that question to us, and they said, and ‘Believe it that, you know, if you decide, it’s totally your decision, and we are not trying to pressure you one way or the other. And if you do want to go, that would be fine, but if you do not, no one outside this room would know that we, why we chose to go another direction for some post-season activity. So, we wanted to ask you about that. And so, you know, you need to let us know right now, so think about it and let us know as soon as you can, because we do need to make some preparations. So, we kind of looked at each other and left the room, left the President’s office, and probably fif-ten-fifteen-twenty steps outside the office and stopped and looked at each other and said, Hey, we want to go, we want to play, so we went right back in there and told them, said yes, we understand, and those conditions were fine, well, maybe not fine, but we could handle them, and we went. And uh... Really wasn’t a bad experience, Meghan. I mean, I had never been exposed to that kind of treatment, but I had certainly heard about it. My folks is from Texas, so we would go back to Texas, growing up, for vacations and stuff, so I was exposed to a little bit as a teenager, but um, it was something. We actually, the three of us, and the other team that we played was Northeastern Oklahoma had one African American on their team. We actually stayed at a private home in St. Petersburg
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay
MEL HANNAH: Where we lived, the four of us. We actually -- the three of our players and their one player -- actually lived together for that two week period, and then the house next door were an African American family, prepared all our meals. So, we stayed at this house and we ate at this house. And then for practice, up to the game, they would send cabs for us, taxi cabs, and we’d get in our cab and go to our practice, and he’d get in his cab and go to his practice. And at the end of the day we would come and eat together, and all those kind of things. And, uh, we had our own little social activity there. There was a, people don’t believe this part, but I guarantee it is true, about two, maybe three blocks from where we were living in this private home, there was a, back then those schools were segregated, obviously, particularly down there. There was an African American, female Junior college about three blocks from where we were living.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Nice
MEL HANNAH: And it was just young ladies all there -- young black ladies. Not that anything weird or crazy happened, it’s just that network --
MEGHAN DORSETT: (Laughing) you go from four to hundreds
MEL HANNAH: So, uh, we had a good time. I’m not trying to defend segregation, but we had a nice time, and uh, it didn’t bother us at all.
MEGHAN DORSETT: When life gives you lemons, make lemonade, right
MEL HANNAH: Yep, that’s right. And, in fact, flying down there -- at the time, Flagstaff didn’t even have an airport -- a lot of us had never flown, so we flew in a prop, a big old military plane, passenger military plane. And we had to drive to Winslow, because at that time Winslow had an airstrip, runway, long enough for that size of airplane. And there were a lot of us that had never flown. And so that was an experience. And when we got to, we stopped at, going over, some place in Louisiana for lunch, and, so we landed at the airport, and all get off the plane as a team, and we go into this restaurant, and I didn’t really realize it until a little bit later, um , because that was also discrimination so you couldn’t, you weren’t supposed to eat together, but what they had done, they had separated fence, placed a big, bamboo partition in the public restaurant where our team ate behind, all together, but we ate behind the restaurant so we weren’t exposed to their normal customers. And that was alright at the time. But we came out, just standing around, you know, after we’d eaten, and, uh, every team has its comic, and we had a little fellow from Yuma, named Frankie Thomas, still alive. We were just standing around out there, and this was still when they had the "white" water fountains, "colored" water fountains, "white" restrooms, "colored" restrooms. And We were just standing around all mixed, with our teammates, and we kind of noticed Frankie was short, out, kind of over there in a different part of airport restaurant. Not really paying attention to him, but we knew he was over there, and we heard him calling "psst" and we "What is it Frankie?", and he said "you guys" and right there he was at the fountains and one was white and one was colored, and he says "I tasted this colored water, and it tastes just like ours" (laughs). We said Frankie get your own water, you’re gonna get us hung. So, we get back on the plane and went on down to, uh there. Anyway, our team, very good team, we felt, we knew we were the best team in Arizona that year. We, our coach tried to finagle anything he could to play the Sun Devils and/or the Wildcats, because we knew we could beat them, back in that day.
MEGHAN DORSETT: And did they--?
MEL HANNAH: Nah, they, and he knew they really couldn’t, but it was fun just to call them
MEGHAN DORSETT: Awww, what a bummer! (laughs)
MEL HANNAH: Yeah, our coach even told, ah, the coach of ASU, they were ASC, too, at that time, was Frank Kush, their legendary coach, and our coach knew him, obviously, he said Frank, we don’t even have to have an official game. Let’s just meet in Camp Verde, you drive down, we’ll get a high school field, and play in the afternoon, we’ll turn the lights on, we’ll just have a scrimmage game, and let’s see what our boys can do against your boys... but, you know, it legally couldn’t have happened, but it was a nice thought.
MEGHAN DORSETT: awww...
MEL HANNAH: But, we knew we could beat them. Anyway, that’s my, that was the football atmosphere.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Well, that’s an excellent story, thank you. If you could reflect on some academics, like what kind of teachers you had, classes, educational experiences.
MEL HANNAH: Okay. I don’t remember a whole lot of specifics, uh, but I do recall that there were no such things--as you had mentioned earlier about how changes are -- there weren’t big classes. And I don’t know if that was because, by design or just the number of students. There weren’t, the classes were always manageable in size, from my experience. And, my recollection of the, of the professors was that they, they always seemed to be readily available. I mean, if ya, if you had some need outside the class, and even though a lot of us were on athletic scholarships, you know, it wasn’t a "big dumb jock" kind of a thing, so, uh, you know, my, my, recollection was that folks, you know, were academically very capable, and uh, but by the same token, you know, I, I never heard anybody complain that they didn’t have access to professors or didn’t get help when they needed it, or, if they did get behind, they knew how to get back up.
MEGHAN DORSETT: mmm-hmm
MEL HANNAH: So, um, my, my recollection from, from that part, which isn’t much in detail is that it, it, it’s good. Good reflection, good, good experience, as I recall.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Good, good. Um. Do you remember any faculty, staff, or administrators, besides your coaches, that stick out?
MEL HANNAH: Yeah, there, there’s a fellow still there who, who was very active in, in sports, because he had been an athlete himself, at the time. He’s Dean Joe Rolle.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay...
MEL HANNAH: And, Joe, I think I just read -- he was at our last reunion -- um, I think he’s about eighty-something now, at least. He, he, I remember Joe. President Walkup, my, because, you know, mainly because of the football incident where they were very candid, and we felt they were real in what they exposed us to. Um, there was a, when I was in business, and you know, business, business was a very generic kind of a class, they didn’t have these specialties and all they got now -- it’s just business, that was the degree you can get. I remember the professor in there that I recall the most was a guy named Frank E- named, uh-- oh man, it just slipped me, but, but there’s another guy, Doctor Frank Bassinet, uh, he had been too long retired, I think, from NAU. I forget what -- I think Frank was in business. Um, who else? We all had to take P.E., and I think P.E. we took under, uh, who, the guy who happened to be the basketball coach, Herb Greg. He had been on campus for years. In fact, he had, he had coached my older brother in basketball, when he went there, years before, a few years before. So... That’s kind of my recollection on faculty folk.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Okay. Alright. Now we’re going to discuss the impact of you college experience. Um, and so, I think we’ve discussed your clearest and most memorable experiences of your college years. Can you think of anything else?
MEL HANNAH: ...
MEGHAN DORSETT: That football game is huge.
MEL HANNAH: Yeah, Yeah.... Uh, nothing specific, other than, again, realizing that these were times of civil and somewhat racial unrest, so to speak, um. It didn’t seem to penetrate the campus, or it didn’t seem to exist in any serious form on campus, uh, I don’t recall that we had any kind of slurs, or any kind of a hint of a physical reaction to any other student-folks, or colored students.
MEGHAN DORSETT: That’s nice.
MEL HANNAH: Um, so..yeah, so I don’t know if it’s just...
MEGHAN DORSETT: ...you felt comfortable...
MEL HANNAH: ...yeah, felt comfortable, that might be the best way to describe it...
MEGHAN DORSETT: That’s good...
MEL HANNAH: And, uh, and, you know, so, so since we didn’t feel it or sense it, um, we didn’t have reason to think anything about it, other than that was quote " the way it was supposed to be"
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right, right
MEL HANNAH: So, you have to look back on it now and kind of assess that well, hey, we didn’t have that, did we? and the answer is No we didn’t.
MEGHAN DORSETT: (laughs) Looking at your whole college experience, how did ASC impact your professional life?
MEL HANNAH: Um, ASC probably helped instill in me some things that, later I perhaps, kind of, drew on, and that was an acknowledgement, I guess, or a realization that you kind of can, you kind of can step up and step out. You know, I probably wouldn’t have described it, during the time, in this way, but, um, I think having to, and even EA -- I went to school in Thatcher, where we were less of a minority. I mean, more of a minority there than even ASU, ASC, um, and not only in a racial context, but at the time I went to Eastern Arizona, it was primarily a, almost a prep school for BYU. I mean, and it was a Bringham, a Morman, derive-driven institution. And, you know, in Winslow, growing up, was Mormons and Protestants and everybody else, so it really, we didn’t make any major distinction, but um, at EA, and then, to a degree, at Arizona State, um, you have to acquire, and now looking back on it, some skills in terms of how to relate, communicate, and work together, when there are perhaps, some differences, in terms of, um, political situations or social situations, and all those kind of things, which are part of life. So, I think part of my college experience, at those times, kind of help develop that kind of skill, if you will, us, in myself; leadership skills, they may be called. And that I drew on later when I got relatively active in community and social and political activities.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right, Very good. Okey-dokey. How about your personal life?
MEL HANNAH: Um, I met my first wife when I was at NAU, Arizona State College, so that certainly had its own... benefits. Uh, Met her when I was in my first year there, and we were married probably a year after I left NAU. We had three beautiful kids, still do, she passed, um, she died around ten, fifteen, or twenty years ago. So, on that personal sign, that was a great asset to Mel Hannah, to my existence, my peace and tranquility (laughs)
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right, right.
MEL HANNAH: Um, And, you know another thing, with the town of Flagstaff. Um, NAU then and perhaps now was, you know, a big portion of the community, a big part of the community. And so, if you, if NAU was doing well -- not if, it always does well, but athletically, for example, the team that we had, you know we certainly made a lasting impact, both as a team and individuals, with the community, that even then, we probably didn’t realize. So, later on, as I chose to stay in Flagstaff, got married, and raised kids. You know, a lot of the, um, a lot of the town folks, community folks, um, could still, you know, would still relate with that, that recognition, that acknowledgement. So, you know, that just makes things, made things even more pleasant.
MEGHAN DORSETT: That’s great, that was great. Um, is there anything else that you’d like to share for the interview?
MEL HANNAH: Um, just , just kind of a continuation, long after I was a student, I just continued to be, um, very impressed with NAU, as it transitioned from ASC to NAU. Um, I’ve, In my early days, In my days there, in politics, so to speak, or on the city council, and even the years I worked for a major nonprofit, called NACOG, I’ve always been impressed with the relationship, and the attitude of NAU, from the president on down, um, their willingness to work with the community, and be active in the community. And not just an academic institute, sitting on the hill. They always had that sense of reaching out, becoming a part of, and networking with. And, I guess my first experience was with Dr. Hughes, who was president for a number of years. Just that, he had personally illustrated and exhibited those kind of characteristics. And even now, when I’ve left -- I go back periodically, but even other kind of programs and things that I’ve become engaged in, that kind of participation and all still exists. And the president now, John Hager, I know pretty well, and has the same attitude, the same compassion, the same kind of outlook and desire to really be a positive impact in the community. So, I’ve been, over the years, um, really impressed with that aspect of NAU. And that’s not to say that ASU or U of A may be doing the same thing, but I just don’t know that, so. I can speak for and talk to NAU’s credibility, from my standpoint.
MEGHAN DORSETT: Right, right. Okay. Well, thank you very much Mr. Hannah.
MEL HANNAH: Okay, you’re welcome, Miss, Meghan -- Chapel? What was your last name?
MEGHAN DORSETT: Dorsett
MEL HANNAH: Dorsett