Re: Disc Priest Lf advice

Originally Posted by Ândrömèdâ

I did not read this in the thread, I guess no one as written this in fact^^

Originally Posted by Abb

@Smeedsc.
So the tank is at full health, with a shield on him. What do you do? Would you;
A) ignore him until he takes damage again, and start shield spamming the raid?
B) chuck on on renew + PoM as you know he is the only person that is going to take a large amount of damage incoming for certain?

I bet you pick option A. This makes you one of the people who is either in a fail guild and don't know why, or you are getting carried by your tank healers. I'd go with the getting carried option, or you wouldn't be as arrogant.

Re: Disc Priest Lf advice

Originally Posted by harky

I have two gear lists, one with T10 healing gear and one without. The one with T10 has 270 less crit rating and 340 less haste rating. In exchange I gain... Spirit. It's an issue of gearing, you mention having 20% haste. That's fine depending on playstyle. I sit at 28% haste right now and the 4p T10 bonus leads to a couple problems. First it means I need to use a Flash Heal, which means I'm wasting 22% of my haste and lowering my healing so that I can proc Penance. While the Penance should make up for it, the value is diminished.

This is the cycle on a tank once you're in high end gear: PW:S->Penance->Greater Heal

Now, to activate the 4p I would need to do one of these two options: PW:S->Penance->Flash Heal->Penance, or PW:S->Penance->Greater Heal->Flash Heal

The first option is bad. That's taking me from casting a 1.36 second Greater Heal, to a 1 second Flash Heal. The second option means the cooldown of Penance drops the cooldown right around where it was pre-nerf. Certainly not 4-5 seconds, even with option 1 you're looking at 5+ seconds. That's 'nice', but you are again trading good gear for very bad gear. Bad enough that 251 Shadow T10 is almost equal to 277 Healing T10. It's like wearing T8 in ICC because you like the set bonus.

I will make my own gear list but I agree on the huge stats loss with T10 holy pieces. I will do the maths taking back some worldoflogs data from mine and try to estimate the HPS and HPM profiles of what you call "Bad" option. Under BT you are definitely right, but without BT which is the case during 12-13 sec if you only heal your tank then I wouldn't be so sure the Penance-FH-Penance combo would not be very efficient (I do not hav numbers so I prefer not saying silly figures without datamining).

But regarding haste and crit losses you mention, I guess that it would not cover this event with OP Penance in the cast sequence. Did someone did any evaluation of that during PTR testings by any chance?

Re: Disc Priest Lf advice

Sure, in theory, a penance-FH-penance combo could be very useful in big tank damage bursts, but fundamentally the idea of a proc for healing is a poor implementation. What makes healing tougher (and more fun) is the need to adapt. There is no set rotation and we have to manage the unpredictable.

I'm sure no disc priests keeps penance on CD 100% of the time. So if you feel the need to use the 4p proc whenever it comes up, it will often just lead to a large overheal.

The 4p is "potentially" useful, but you can't theorycraft it. Think practically: how often with the timing of the proc align with the need for that much burst healing?

The uncertainty of the proc + the disc-friendly stat losses by using 4p T10 makes it a very poor choice imo. But again, this needs to be seen in practice. I'll just wait for others to spend the badges

Re: Disc Priest Lf advice

Originally Posted by Ândrömèdâ

I will make my own gear list but I agree on the huge stats loss with T10 holy pieces. I will do the maths taking back some worldoflogs data from mine and try to estimate the HPS and HPM profiles of what you call "Bad" option. Under BT you are definitely right, but without BT which is the case during 12-13 sec if you only heal your tank then I wouldn't be so sure the Penance-FH-Penance combo would not be very efficient (I do not hav numbers so I prefer not saying silly figures without datamining).

Note: I did not use any items without completely known stats. Almost all non-'Heroic' gear can be replaced with the heroic piece once the stats are fully known (mostly socket bonuses). The exception is the crafted leggings, there is no Heroic version, but they are better than any known 277 alternative.
Note2: With talents this setup has 38.8% haste, with raid buffs 50% haste. This is done to be GCD capped without BT. GH is 1.66/1.33 seconds and Penance is 1.33/1.06 seconds with and without BT.
Note3: If the build confuses you please keep in mind that Flash Heal is almost never used with this build. Greater Heal is the standard heal for this spec in this gear. Grace is dropped to 1/2 because it will be stable on the tank and the only non-tank heals thrown are PW:S, PoH and PoM, none of which will remove Grace from the tank.

Re: Disc Priest Lf advice

Ya Harky, I too have been thinking about a point where I have enough haste to make GH a staple. Your gear set is pretty good but I hate your gems. I think to really make that healstyle effective, you will need to gem more int again. It's similar to holy pallies. They max their Int so they can spam HL. Of course they have the bonus of the int-SP conversion

Re: Disc Priest Lf advice

The haste gems are used to reach cap and the mp/5 gems are used to activate heavy SP bonuses. It's the gemming strategy I've been using in my current gear (886 haste) as well. I haven't seen a reason to go to Int gemming as of yet. The mana spent per 5 is lower than Paladins, but slightly worse mana return cooldowns with slightly better normal mana returns. It's an interesting blend. You do need to be more careful than usual, but you can always mix gems to taste. When replacing gear with the proper 277 pieces in a few spots you may be able to GCD cap without haste gemming, at which point you would SP/Int gem instead. It's most likely required when first building up the set. Particularly before you can get the Sliver. It could also be that Solace+Sliver would help compensate even further.

Re: Disc Priest Lf advice

Thank you again to your contribution there harky. I saw your profile and thus have discovered this tool section in wowhead for gear simulation which made me earn a huge amount of time. I can only admit that even if 4p bonus sounds interesting and pleasant (I was even foreseeing a possibility there to trade penance glyph for something else, like a 2nd embodied bonus within the T10 one :P) it will definitely never compete with stats loss that is a fact.

I am a bit disapointed since the bonus part of Tiers in part of the fun within gearing your toon as well, but when you aim good raid efficiency there you have to go straight to the best, even if it sounds a little flavourless^^

Thank you very much for those very interesting discussions. Regarding healing playstyle, I also do GH healing but I adapt it depending on raid composition. Most of the time we are 3 tank healers in 25 encounter meaning to pallies and I so preventing overheal for GH means high haste rating, but sometimes FH use to quick fill empty HPs and limit HL part as well. I am currently doing the same way as you are for raid support : PoM, PoH and PW:S for keeping Grace on tanks at the maximum. But I found 1/2 template was very unsatisfying since RNG is again hanging around and sometimes I face very strong issues stacking 3 grace buff on tank. So I moved back to 2/2.

And Improved Healings doesn't sound ideal to me since I was having it (didn't put any points in improved FH for that at that time), but finally realized I did that to limit the cost over overheal when GH was covered by palies. So I more or less balance between GH when really effective and FH when situation is more or less stable. This sounds like a good balance to me for the moment.

Re: Disc Priest Lf advice

Originally Posted by Ândrömèdâ

Thank you very much for those very interesting discussions. Regarding healing playstyle, I also do GH healing but I adapt it depending on raid composition. Most of the time we are 3 tank healers in 25 encounter meaning to pallies and I so preventing overheal for GH means high haste rating, but sometimes FH use to quick fill empty HPs and limit HL part as well. I am currently doing the same way as you are for raid support : PoM, PoH and PW:S for keeping Grace on tanks at the maximum. But I found 1/2 template was very unsatisfying since RNG is again hanging around and sometimes I face very strong issues stacking 3 grace buff on tank. So I moved back to 2/2.

You should also use FH whenever there is a lull in damage. On Festergut for example you probably only need to spot heal tanks at first, then as stacks increase you'll move more and more to the tank, until finally dedicating heals to them for 3 stacks. You're also only using FH in low-stress periods, so the increased mana consumption and lower crit on low health targets isn't a big loss. You'll be dropping Greater Heal as soon as there's a sign of danger anyway.

Also, once you're dedicated on a tank the likelihood of Grace falling off is astronomical. In 15 seconds you'll be healing the tank 6-10 times with spells that proc Grace. Even just hitting Penance on CD is a 98.5% chance of keeping Grace up with 1/2. When full time on that tank you're looking at 99.9998% chance of keeping it up. The issue primarily comes up when switching tanks. It will take a couple extra seconds to stack. That can be problematic, so switching to 54/17 instead and dropping to 2/3 Imp. Healing works fine.

Re: Disc Priest Lf advice

Hi

I showed my case in the other topic, but after reading that one I think I should ask also there.
I would be greatfull if You can evaluate my disc priest build atm. and later consider answering on some of my question.http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...lash&n=Krisbit

Then:
I am worried about my mp5 in combat, it is quite low. Or it should be like that? With respect to that I am thinking about future ICC and frost emblem itemization.
The first of all I was considering get head and legs from t10 set becouse I use fs quite often. But after reading there I am worried that I am using it too much. GH is my background spell. Should I change it?
If yes, or if T10 isn't worth buying should I search for spirit on my items or concentrate on both: haste and critical on them. My main target now is changing belt and back. I would not break t9 bonus set.
Can I also ask for cjudge my other items choices ?

Re: Disc Priest Lf advice

Originally Posted by Krisbit

I am worried about my mp5 in combat, it is quite low. Or it should be like that? With respect to that I am thinking about future ICC and frost emblem itemization.

Lower MP5 in combat is expected because a lot of your source of mana doesn't come from passive regen. The size of your initial mana pool, Replenishment, Shadowfiend, Hymn of Hope, Mana Tide, and Rapture do not show up as MP5 but all together constitute the majority of your regen. With 28.5k mana unbuffed, you should be just fine.

The first of all I was considering get head and legs from t10 set becouse I use fs quite often. But after reading there I am worried that I am using it too much. GH is my background spell. Should I change it?

If you want T10, the relative value I'll leave to you to decide from that discussion in the other thread, I think legs are a poor choice for getting the set bonus. Not only are the T10 pants Haste/Spirit, probably the worst combination of stats, but the crafted pants are Haste/Crit, which is generally the best combination of stats.

Re: Disc Priest Lf advice

So, do u think I can still lower my mp5 ? Becouse I am considering drop spirit from belt in exchange for haste and crit states. And what about my gemming? int/sp in red/yellow and sp/spi in every blue.

And if you re saying that legs arent best option then there is no other option for me that dont take t10 at all. Becouse I won't take chest with only 2 gems slots and don't want to broke t9 bonus. (however, upgraded legs from t10 still may be an option - I am so confused with gear choices now ) In that case I will take meteor one chest (that from non-set with haste/crit), belt(haste/crit) and cape(crit/mp5)? What dp You think?