This is a discussion on time to reall learn and stop winging it within the online poker forums, in the Tournament Poker section; So I just got knocked out of my 4th (or 5th) SCOOP event. Fairly decent sized buyins (ranging from $100 - $225). It also occurs

So I just got knocked out of my 4th (or 5th) SCOOP event. Fairly decent sized buyins (ranging from $100 - $225). It also occurs to me I deposit a whole lot more than I withdraw from PS!! I think its time for me to recognize that Im not naturally an incredible poker player. I always considered myself a "good" player, but that has normally been when playing fairly weak players. Now, when I'm involved in this MTTs with loads of supernova players, I can see I'm outclassed. How do I go about unlearning the crap I've obviously picked up over the years and begin playing decent poker. Any suggestions appreciated.

J

#2

11th May 2016, 9:17 PM

Everybodylovesdeuces [130]

Online Poker at: Bovada

Game: All

I started out learning by reading a ton of poker books and getting a discussion/learning group together. Eventually branched out to videos, websites, webinars, etc.

#3

11th May 2016, 9:30 PM

tocloc238 [1,471]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Holdem

I feel your pain. And just think, we only see the SNE's that want to advertise their achievement. Some of these players have incredible stats/sharkscope graphs. I feel like those of us not using a HUD are at a disadvantage as well, but many of them are multi-tabling. To some its almost like printing money. I hope that is us someday. You should check it out as you can track your own progress on their as well and its free.

#4

11th May 2016, 11:45 PM

piggiepoker [15]

Online Poker at: poker Stars

I thought all HUDs were banned by PS??

#5

12th May 2016, 12:01 AM

ItryhardAA [73]

Poker at: Bovada

Quote:

Originally Posted by piggiepoker

I thought all HUDs were banned by PS??

HUDs on every single site. also 4 or 5 scoop games isn't a big number or tournaments played, the great poker players will lose 5 MTTs in a row but if it hurts your wallet and mentally when you lose at high stakes its best to not even play that. Tournaments have too much variance and I believe scoop games have a very large amount of players (never played on PS)

#6

12th May 2016, 12:04 AM

EvertonGirl [6,256]

Online Poker at: PS PP

Game: NLHE PLO/2-7

re: Poker & time to reall learn and stop winging it

Quote:

Originally Posted by piggiepoker

I thought all HUDs were banned by PS??

Nope... Why would pokerstars ban HUD's... HUD's don't tell you when to fold, call or raise. You just see stats on people on how they play, how often they 3bet and steal. It doesn't help you with pot odds either, you can have to do that yourself.

#7

12th May 2016, 12:16 AM

piggiepoker [15]

Poker at: poker Stars

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItryhardAA

HUDs on every single site. also 4 or 5 scoop games isn't a big number or tournaments played, the great poker players will lose 5 MTTs in a row but if it hurts your wallet and mentally when you lose at high stakes its best to not even play that. Tournaments have too much variance and I believe scoop games have a very large amount of players (never played on PS)

I wasn't whining as such, just had a realization that I'm nowhere as good as I guess I thought I was...

#8

12th May 2016, 12:45 AM

PapaC [2,422]

Online Poker at: Full Flush

Game: Holdem

Quote:

Originally Posted by piggiepoker

So I just got knocked out of my 4th (or 5th) SCOOP event. Fairly decent sized buyins (ranging from $100 - $225). It also occurs to me I deposit a whole lot more than I withdraw from PS!! I think its time for me to recognize that Im not naturally an incredible poker player. I always considered myself a "good" player, but that has normally been when playing fairly weak players. Now, when I'm involved in this MTTs with loads of supernova players, I can see I'm outclassed. How do I go about unlearning the crap I've obviously picked up over the years and begin playing decent poker. Any suggestions appreciated.

J

I'm glad you have seen some of your problems already. This is the truth with a little added Jack Daniel'. If you are losing more than you win, you need breaks, and stop the deposits for awhile. No need to have funds, but what ever you decieded. If you play your game, I don't think stopping all to geather for a short period would help. For now play some low buy ins and try to keep it fun Then get in here and learn the game. I been working on mine over 2 years. And this is really the truth. I changed my game, and all I know about poker came from right here, and my experience at the tables. Brother it takes work. GL to you

#9

12th May 2016, 12:48 AM

tocloc238 [1,471]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Holdem

Quote:

Originally Posted by piggiepoker

I thought all HUDs were banned by PS??

No, but they did put restrictions on what info, colors, etc. that HUDS can display.

From the article at pokernews....Another change that was announced is that, "Game State Reporters can no longer automatically or semi-automatically retrieve information from an otherwise permitted reference material. For example, tools can no longer notify an end-user that their starting hand lies in Group 1 of a statically defined grouping of hands." This suggests tools that react to game-play in motion, instead of just static information on opponents and the table before a hand begins, will be prohibited.
The announced policy changes are also believed to affect programs which enable automatic betting sizes based on the action in front of them. Some players feel this is too restrictive on what they believe is a basic feature.http://www.pokernews.com/news/2015/1...licy-22920.htm

#10

12th May 2016, 2:41 AM

JPainTrainSicko [300]

Online Poker at: ACR

Game: NLH, PLO

Your story is not that uncommon, I also had a similar experience after playing some home games, local games and then stepping up to bigger buyins and tougher/larger fields. The variance in big field mtts can be tricky to wrap your head around and a sample size of 4-5 games is not enough to justify saying your not a winner. But if you are seeing and feeling you are out of your element don't worry that's good, you recognize you have more to learn!

Approach the learning by reading more books, I highly highly recommend The Mental Game Of Poker by Jared Tendler to start. This one book may not be packed with the best spots to 3bet and when to cold call oop but it will help you to become a better player. It shows you how to analyze your strengths and weaknesses in every respect and then how to improve.

You can also continue to post strategy/general questions on here and see how others think. Watch videos, read articles, listen to podcasts.... thinking poker with Nate Mavis and Andrew brokos is one of my favorites.

Another idea is taking a few days off and balancing poker with other hobbies or activities. You could step down in buyin and test what you're learning. This will take some of the sting out of the losses and give you practice.

Keep at it and be patient, no matter how long you play you will find better players and you will be trying to improve. For me that's a lot of the fun. Good luck!

The number one leak in poker is thinking you are a better player than you actually are - so you have taken the first step and are on your way.

99.9% of the time this starts with tightening up. Stop believing in hope and luck (playing hands hoping to hit). Play hands the percentages favor.

Review your hands (a day to a week later so you can be more objective). You will start seeing things you did that you will do differently the next time.

Get a poker buddy who will review hands with you.

#12

12th May 2016, 4:40 AM

JPDoesNotLikeU [1]

Online Poker at: ACR

Game: Holdem

re: Poker & time to reall learn and stop winging it

My two cents. You said 4th or 5th event. That indicates to me that you're not tracking your wins, losses, cashes, buy ins etc. Out of frustration you feel like a losing player. You may well be. You may not. I would suggest tracking everything in a spreadsheet that you can later use to create easy to read visual charts and graphs. Over the course of many games, if you are the fish in these games, your negative and continuously declining profits will show you where you stand, and serve as added motivation to improve. Also you will be able to see if the new things you're learning and the new things you're trying are not working, and when they are. Tracking your profits and finishes can serve as a benchmark to show what is working for you and what is not.

I have to agree with what others have already said. A few games is way too small of a sample to make any determination. That being said, if you feel outmatched or out of place in these games, you are (a) probably right and (b) you are wise enough to realize and acknowledge it. Study. Read up on advanced tactics. Watch mid to high stakes poker streamers on Twitch. Learn from them. Utilize your own hand histories to go back and figure out where you went wrong and patch that hole. Hand by hand, day by day, you should improve, because you have the desire to. Although you'll need far more than a few games until you find out.

Best of luck and dedication to you.

-JP

#13

13th May 2016, 12:22 PM

WiZZiM [4,982]

Poker at: PStars

Game: STT / MTSNG

Start again with an open mind. Start with smaller buyins while you learn and realize no one is a natural poker player. To be good it takes plenty of workm to be really good picture it like a degree it will take years of work before it starts paying off.

#14

13th May 2016, 10:49 PM

piggiepoker [15]

Online Poker at: poker Stars

Great advise here, thanks guys. Today i spent a a few hours playing some lower stakes games, just to give myself a breather. I certainly need to change my ways, as I'm definitely leaking money. Hope to learn a lot from this site.

#15

13th May 2016, 10:57 PM

shmucky [3]

Getting settled..

One of the toughest things for new players is just getting used to seeing the different hands as they come. we all have our favorites but knowing when to throw it away can be tough, especially if you half hit with it. a grinder will come at you with allot of different hands and when they have the nuts they very seldom let you walk to the flop. remember only good players throw away good hands. Live to fight again and trap those grinders.

#16

13th May 2016, 11:59 PM

Dan Lucas [353]

Online Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: holdem

Remember, very few players make money playing poker. Skill is much less useful when the stakes are small and the field is large. Pokerstars, where I play, has fewer and fewer profitable freerolls and small buy-in events. The level of variance is through the roof. Be prepared to play hundreds of events just to make a little money. If you can establish any kind of bankroll, you can then take your game to the next level and so on. Good luck to you whatever strategy you choose to employ.

#17

14th May 2016, 8:59 PM

Al Spath [113]

Poker at: Full Flush

Game: hold'em

Get a friend to shadow you, or hire a real coach and find out what it is you are doing wrong (the leaks or holes in your game). gl