Jean Grey was one of the five original X-Men. An omega-level mutant telekinetic and telepath, Jean has gained near limitless powers as a recurrent host of the Phoenix Force. She is known for her many returns from death and as the deceased wife of Cyclops.

Should jean be treating young Scott so poorly?

I would think its probably one of the worst ideas to start his self loathing an brooding a lot sooner than older Scott. Shouldn't she be guiding Hume down a better path? Then again were only like 4 issues in.

She probably shouldn't for various reasons, but it's understandable if she does. She learns that not only does she fall in love and marry Scott, but they cheat on each other and he becomes a revolutionary.

jean to me has no reason to be mad at him. she saw what she did as phoenix like destroy galaxies and what not and cheat on him but shes still mad at him? she should understanding if anything and apologetic.

and of course her and wolverine share a moment and wolverine being the perfect role model he is suggest to kill a minor. everyone is okay with that apparently...theyre doing an amazing job building up young scott. I wouldnt be surprised if he goes "bad".

i really hate what marvel is doing with the x-men....i blame wolverine lol

I,d like to know if jean learned everything from hank about the scott and emma affair as well as there marriage falling apart and the parts both jean and scott played. If she did should she then muck about in adult scott and emma,s head,s.

jean to me has no reason to be mad at him. she saw what she did as phoenix like destroy galaxies and what not and cheat on him but shes still mad at him? she should understanding if anything and apologetic.

and of course her and wolverine share a moment and wolverine being the perfect role model he is suggest to kill a minor. everyone is okay with that apparently...theyre doing an amazing job building up young scott. I wouldnt be surprised if he goes "bad".

i really hate what marvel is doing with the x-men....i blame wolverine lol

Whether or not she 'SHOULD' be angry with him isn't really the question at the moment... Is it realistic for her to be angry with him? ABSOLUTELY.

She's a teenage girl

She's seen the future where she's dies more than once (which would naturally upset anyone. Not that she'd blame Scott for that. I'm only suggesting it would upset her.)

She's seen the man she's in love with marry someone else. (He married Madelyn Pryor while Jean was supposedly dead the first time)

She's seen that he had a child with a woman who turned out to be Jean's clone.

She's seen that he had an affair with Emma Frost while he was in a relationship with Jean

She likely knows that he told Emma Frost, "Even if Jean had lived, I'd have chosen you, Emma."

So, "SHOULD" she mad at her Scott (the young one)? Well, logically, no... 'He' hasn't done anything wrong. But she's a teenage girl who has seen what's going to happen to her and that Scott is going to marry and have a child with someone else, and after that Scott is going to get back together with Jean but then have an affair with a woman who had tried to kill the X-Men....

Whether or not she SHOULD be mad at Scott, it seems only natural that she IS mad at Scott...

@Timandm: While I largely agree with what you are saying I feel strongly compelled to revise some things you stated.

Actually Jean's only been "killed" once. It is a very common mistake that even writers make to say she died twice. The phoenix entity cloned itself into a replica of Jean and impersonated her from Uncanny 101-137 in which it ultimately killed itself because it thought it was Jean and "Jean" didn't want to become a monster. Actually Sinister cloned and programmed Madelyne Pryor to be everything he wanted from Jean so he could potentially harvest what eventually become Nathan Christopher Charles Summers. In Scott's mourning he succumbed to her and married her, playing right into Sinister's plan. Cable was for all intents and purposes as engineered into creation as Maddie was. Maddie and the Phoenix are two separate entities from Jean Grey even for all the mechanization of bad writers trying to stimulate interest in Jean. What is more disturbing than "dying twice" is having the memories for a cosmic entity from the time it impersonated you and that same entity ripping the memories and consciousness from your clone and putting all of that in your head. So technically she remembers dying three times as different people.

Scott was altered by the experience with being bonded to Apocalypse during "The Twelve" story arc, this is what Morrison erroneously spurred into infidelity was a unto itself defying all reason, logic and decades of continuity and character personality.

Please read the Here Comes Tomorrow story line, which was Morrison's last issues which made clear that Jean essentially wanted Emma to serve as counterpart to Cyclops in order to prevent the reality of 15104 from happening on 616. Scott himself has never, to my knowledge, implicitly implied that he would choose Jean or Emma. However from the impression of the dialogue at her death in ANXM #150, he was about to tell her he chose Jean. I don't think Scott is so callous he would bother bringing it up she was not his choice when he realizes she is dying. And before anyone brings it up Scott kisses Emma at Jean's grave only after Here Comes Tomorrow occurs. Which always bothered me honestly, for either direction whether he was confirming to Jean he was doing what she wanted like a stupid dog or just doing whatever he wanted in front of her grave to spite her for leaving him. Either is poor writing but the character's needs would necessitate a return to Jean at some point as he was designed to be that way.

jean to me has no reason to be mad at him. she saw what she did as phoenix like destroy galaxies and what not and cheat on him but shes still mad at him? she should understanding if anything and apologetic.

and of course her and wolverine share a moment and wolverine being the perfect role model he is suggest to kill a minor. everyone is okay with that apparently...theyre doing an amazing job building up young scott. I wouldnt be surprised if he goes "bad".

i really hate what marvel is doing with the x-men....i blame wolverine lol

@Timandm: While I largely agree with what you are saying I feel strongly compelled to revise some things you stated.

Actually Jean's only been "killed" once. It is a very common mistake that even writers make to say she died twice. The phoenix entity cloned itself into a replica of Jean and impersonated her from Uncanny 101-137 in which it ultimately killed itself because it thought it was Jean and "Jean" didn't want to become a monster. Actually Sinister cloned and programmed Madelyne Pryor to be everything he wanted from Jean so he could potentially harvest what eventually become Nathan Christopher Charles Summers. In Scott's mourning he succumbed to her and married her, playing right into Sinister's plan. Cable was for all intents and purposes as engineered into creation as Maddie was. Maddie and the Phoenix are two separate entities from Jean Grey even for all the mechanization of bad writers trying to stimulate interest in Jean. What is more disturbing than "dying twice" is having the memories for a cosmic entity from the time it impersonated you and that same entity ripping the memories and consciousness from your clone and putting all of that in your head. So technically she remembers dying three times as different people.

Scott was altered by the experience with being bonded to Apocalypse during "The Twelve" story arc, this is what Morrison erroneously spurred into infidelity was a unto itself defying all reason, logic and decades of continuity and character personality.

Please read the Here Comes Tomorrow story line, which was Morrison's last issues which made clear that Jean essentially wanted Emma to serve as counterpart to Cyclops in order to prevent the reality of 15104 from happening on 616. Scott himself has never, to my knowledge, implicitly implied that he would choose Jean or Emma. However from the impression of the dialogue at her death in ANXM #150, he was about to tell her he chose Jean. I don't think Scott is so callous he would bother bringing it up she was not his choice when he realizes she is dying. And before anyone brings it up Scott kisses Emma at Jean's grave only after Here Comes Tomorrow occurs. Which always bothered me honestly, for either direction whether he was confirming to Jean he was doing what she wanted like a stupid dog or just doing whatever he wanted in front of her grave to spite her for leaving him. Either is poor writing but the character's needs would necessitate a return to Jean at some point as he was designed to be that way.

Rant over...MISSION CLEAR!

This is good stuff... It's late and I'm tired but I need to check a few things.

1: I do recall that the first time we "THOUGHT" Jean died, it was explained away as her being cloned and replaced. While her replacement went on about the business of being Jean, becoming the pheonix, then dark pheonix, and finally dying, Jean was (I believe) in a sort of suspended animation in a sort of cocoon within the space shuttle which crashed into the ocean.

But there have been at least three times... Here's an image from New X-Men 148 where Logan killed her as she and he were trapped on a part of a space station that was drifting into the sun... He didn't want her to suffer anymore... It seems killing her saved them as it....um...released the pheonix in her? She was back the very in the very next issue:

Jean Grey dies New X-Men 148

and here she is just two issues later, dying again in Scott's arms...This was the time she was killed by Xorn who was really Magneto who was really a clone of Magneto...but not the Magneto clone known as Joseph...sigh.

Jean Grey dies in New X-Men 150

As for Endsong... As I recall, the Pheonix Force resurrected her, so she came back to life. However, during the course of events, Logan stabbed and killed her several times... She did die, but she didn't STAY dead. So this, technically, does count as her dying and coming back to life as she did in New X-Men 148 and 149. At the end of endsong, in my opinion, she dies again. Some will say she didn't die but rather transcended to the white hot room.... In practical terms, her body ceased to be and her spirit moves out...

Now, I thought right before Scott and Emma snogged on Jean's grave that he specifically told Emma he was going to leave Jean and choose Emma...I'll have to go back and reread that, but at the moment I can't even remember what issues to read.... and regarding the "Here comes Tomorrow" thing, you're right that was bad writing. HORRIBLE writing. The wondered if the writer was on acid while working...

You've pointed out that Jean wanted Scott to be with Emma, and that is sort of implied somewhere... But, the young Jean would not have seen this. Remember, she looked into the mind and memories of Beast. So, what she sees is Scott having an affair with Emma, and then choosing to stay with Emma... And this Jean is a teenager so you can imagine how badly that news would hit her, yes?

@Timandm: I guess could try to count every time Jean has been "killed" or died but I was just focusing on the one's that were a "perma-death" scenario (ie one's that are consistently present in the very liquid continuity of X-Men, but I use that terminology VERY loosely since this is a Marvel title). Personally I think it has been a best practice on Marvel's human resources team to ensure that whomever it writing X-titles is either one of three things drunk, high or mentally incapacitated. Morrison wrote "Here Comes Tomorrow" which was a fitting end to a mediocre run in which I am certain he took in the entirety of a bible of acid. Thankfully he went back to Batman.

Actually when she was linked to old Scott she should have been able see what was in his head based on the pre-existing mental rapport to put that "go with Emma thing to together after seeing the rest of the story in Beast's head I would think. Based on the time of events she also would have seen that she died in his arms, what he was trying to say to her and see that Emma was only formally courted after her death. Jean has never struck me as lacking in intelligence, perhaps naive, but definitely not unintelligent. She would have been able to piece this together from the two different memories.

Not to mention the fact that it was not like Scott was so very guarded mentally at the time in a state of pedobear staring at teenage Jean. I was surprised they didnt have fapping sounds effects off screen and Magento doing the facepalm for christ-sakes.

a song for teen jean teen scott and pixie fights because i heard that pixie goes after teen scott......oh god first pixie ruins hope's relationship and now tries to ruin jean...lol......what ever happened to the five lights????

@Timandm: I guess could try to count every time Jean has been "killed" or died but I was just focusing on the one's that were a "perma-death" scenario (ie one's that are consistently present in the very liquid continuity of X-Men, but I use that terminology VERY loosely since this is a Marvel title). Personally I think it has been a best practice on Marvel's human resources team to ensure that whomever it writing X-titles is either one of three things drunk, high or mentally incapacitated. Morrison wrote "Here Comes Tomorrow" which was a fitting end to a mediocre run in which I am certain he took in the entirety of a bible of acid. Thankfully he went back to Batman.

Actually when she was linked to old Scott she should have been able see what was in his head based on the pre-existing mental rapport to put that "go with Emma thing to together after seeing the rest of the story in Beast's head I would think. Based on the time of events she also would have seen that she died in his arms, what he was trying to say to her and see that Emma was only formally courted after her death. Jean has never struck me as lacking in intelligence, perhaps naive, but definitely not unintelligent. She would have been able to piece this together from the two different memories.

Not to mention the fact that it was not like Scott was so very guarded mentally at the time in a state of pedobear staring at teenage Jean. I was surprised they didnt have fapping sounds effects off screen and Magento doing the facepalm for christ-sakes.

i think jean was able to see in adult scotts head because of thier psychic rapport as for wolverine idk maybe they have a connection too

@HopesummersFORtheFUTURE: The ironic thing is seemingly Wolvie "accessibility" to telepaths now, at one point it was like he was shielded from everyone except Xavier.

Actually I'm just waiting for someone to say that the real white queen died with the hellions in UX 281 and that a remnant of Jean was actually Emma Frost this whole time. Ret-cons...ugh.

HEY!!! SHHHHH!!!!! You CAN'T say things like that online! You know Quesada is out there looking for ideas!!! He's going to read your comment and think, "Oh, HEY! That's awesome! Call in the crew, we have to rewrite everything... again..."

@chasereis said:

@Timandm: I guess could try to count every time Jean has been "killed" or died but I was just focusing on the one's that were a "perma-death" scenario (ie one's that are consistently present in the very liquid continuity of X-Men, but I use that terminology VERY loosely since this is a Marvel title). Personally I think it has been a best practice on Marvel's human resources team to ensure that whomever it writing X-titles is either one of three things drunk, high or mentally incapacitated. Morrison wrote "Here Comes Tomorrow" which was a fitting end to a mediocre run in which I am certain he took in the entirety of a bible of acid. Thankfully he went back to Batman.

Actually when she was linked to old Scott she should have been able see what was in his head based on the pre-existing mental rapport to put that "go with Emma thing to together after seeing the rest of the story in Beast's head I would think. Based on the time of events she also would have seen that she died in his arms, what he was trying to say to her and see that Emma was only formally courted after her death. Jean has never struck me as lacking in intelligence, perhaps naive, but definitely not unintelligent. She would have been able to piece this together from the two different memories.

Not to mention the fact that it was not like Scott was so very guarded mentally at the time in a state of pedobear staring at teenage Jean. I was surprised they didnt have fapping sounds effects off screen and Magento doing the facepalm for christ-sakes.

You mention her being in "old Scott's" head.. The thing is, I don't think she has been in his head yet. She kept hearing his thoughts/rantings, right? But it wasn't like with Hank where he invited her in and she actually 'tried' to go in and look... I think it would help if she WOULD go into Scott's head... Why not, she's here already, she should go right to the source...

Regarding Jean's ability to piece things together. No doubt, she should be able to, and I expect she will eventually. But we have to remember, reading minds is brand spanking new to her. In fact, that ability shouldn't have kicked in just yet. So, she's probably still trying to make all the pieces fit. Yes, we saw her angry with Scott, but she's only JUST looked into Hank's mind... Who knows how she'll feel in the morning. Now, if she had spent time looking into everyone's mind, see things as they really happened, and THEN got angry with Scott, I think it'd be a different story... I really do think we're just seeing a teenage girl reacting to this jumble of images of a future in which she dies more than once (kind of) and the man she loves ends up with... well, Emma...

It'll sort itself out... Unless Marvel is in charge of writing the rest of the story, in which case... oh wait... crap....

I would think its probably one of the worst ideas to start his self loathing an brooding a lot sooner than older Scott. Shouldn't she be guiding Hume down a better path? Then again were only like 4 issues in.

yes she should treat him bad because all she knows is that she scott's past and emma is his future thats why they might bring jean back for wolverine

from uncanny x-men 239

‘She was my best friend, Logan – name of a name, why didn’t you tell me?’ Ororo asks. ‘Because she was dead. We were there when it happened. Jean Grey died on the moon. Sacrificed her life to save the universe!’ Wolverine reminds Storm. Logan continues, ‘Only here are my senses suddenly telling me that not only is she still alive…but this Jean Grey has no trace of the Phoenix about her. The same woman – but fundamentally different. I didn’t know what to do. Still don’t, really’ Logan remarks, explaining to Storm that he didn’t tell her – he couldn’t tell her – because he wasn’t sure. The rain stops and Logan and Ororo stand and face each other, with Wolverine suggesting that his mind may have been playing tricks on him, that his senses might have been making a mistake, that perhaps he labeled the scent “Jean” because that is what he wanted it to be.

Storm suggests that there is a simple solution – find Jean, confront her, and resolve the confusion once and for all. Logan asks Storm to give him a break, explaining that he was scared – that he still is. ‘I loved her, Ororo. I lost her. End of story. Only now, it ain’t over’ Logan declares.

uncanny x-men 243:

Upstairs, in the mansion proper. ‘That outcry - Jean!’ Storm gasps as she, Logan, Scott and ArchArchangel all turn back to look at for Jean. ‘Lady’s full of surprises. Didn’t know she knew that kinda language’ Wolverine remarks. ‘Your influence, probably’ Scott tells him, before they race down the corridor, to search for her. ‘She could do worse, bub’ Logan tells Scott, before announcing that Jean’s sound and scent place her in the other wing’s attic. Scott explains that they used the other attic for storage, and Storm confirms that they did, too.

@chasereis: but the point is did jean have to die so scott could be with emma why didnt they get a divorce and maybe get together later on

@Timandm said:

@chasereis said:

@HopesummersFORtheFUTURE: The ironic thing is seemingly Wolvie "accessibility" to telepaths now, at one point it was like he was shielded from everyone except Xavier.

Actually I'm just waiting for someone to say that the real white queen died with the hellions in UX 281 and that a remnant of Jean was actually Emma Frost this whole time. Ret-cons...ugh.

HEY!!! SHHHHH!!!!! You CAN'T say things like that online! You know Quesada is out there looking for ideas!!! He's going to read your comment and think, "Oh, HEY! That's awesome! Call in the crew, we have to rewrite everything... again..."

@chasereis said:

@Timandm: I guess could try to count every time Jean has been "killed" or died but I was just focusing on the one's that were a "perma-death" scenario (ie one's that are consistently present in the very liquid continuity of X-Men, but I use that terminology VERY loosely since this is a Marvel title). Personally I think it has been a best practice on Marvel's human resources team to ensure that whomever it writing X-titles is either one of three things drunk, high or mentally incapacitated. Morrison wrote "Here Comes Tomorrow" which was a fitting end to a mediocre run in which I am certain he took in the entirety of a bible of acid. Thankfully he went back to Batman.

Actually when she was linked to old Scott she should have been able see what was in his head based on the pre-existing mental rapport to put that "go with Emma thing to together after seeing the rest of the story in Beast's head I would think. Based on the time of events she also would have seen that she died in his arms, what he was trying to say to her and see that Emma was only formally courted after her death. Jean has never struck me as lacking in intelligence, perhaps naive, but definitely not unintelligent. She would have been able to piece this together from the two different memories.

Not to mention the fact that it was not like Scott was so very guarded mentally at the time in a state of pedobear staring at teenage Jean. I was surprised they didnt have fapping sounds effects off screen and Magento doing the facepalm for christ-sakes.

You mention her being in "old Scott's" head.. The thing is, I don't think she has been in his head yet. She kept hearing his thoughts/rantings, right? But it wasn't like with Hank where he invited her in and she actually 'tried' to go in and look... I think it would help if she WOULD go into Scott's head... Why not, she's here already, she should go right to the source...

Regarding Jean's ability to piece things together. No doubt, she should be able to, and I expect she will eventually. But we have to remember, reading minds is brand spanking new to her. In fact, that ability shouldn't have kicked in just yet. So, she's probably still trying to make all the pieces fit. Yes, we saw her angry with Scott, but she's only JUST looked into Hank's mind... Who knows how she'll feel in the morning. Now, if she had spent time looking into everyone's mind, see things as they really happened, and THEN got angry with Scott, I think it'd be a different story... I really do think we're just seeing a teenage girl reacting to this jumble of images of a future in which she dies more than once (kind of) and the man she loves ends up with... well, Emma...

It'll sort itself out... Unless Marvel is in charge of writing the rest of the story, in which case... oh wait... crap....

i think it makes perfect sence for jean to read scott's thoughts the reason why scott wanted to protect his thoughts from psychic is because when he was a teenage boy he didnt want jean to read his thoughts(probably to not let her know that he liked her)....plus later in life jean trained scott to protect himself from other psychic thats why it hard for other psychic to read his min......unlike emma who goes into people mind without permission

scott says jean is all he ever wanted in life...lol if only emma heard that....irony is a b!tch because emma lost her telepathy and jean grey gains hers to early...i smell trouble in the future

For me its like this Scott fell for Jean because of her looks, and at the end personality wise they were better off as friends that's why he picked Emma. What can I say Slim digs Red Heads not Blondes. II. Should she be mad at him... No, but she's a teenager. We all know teenagers are just kids who think their adults. Is this helping Cyke not turn into the New Magneto... Hell No Sheesh it's no wonder he's the way he is (+)

@HopesummersFORtheFUTURE: Oh, it absolutely makes perfect sense for Jean to read Scott's mind. Not only do I think she should, I think she needs to. I just don't think she really has yet... She's heard some of his thoughts and may have seen surface images, but nothing like what she did when she focused and looked through Hank's mind...

I would be more on board for jean coming back for Logan but Logan "loves" just about any girl in his life who sleeps with him and has a nicely drawn rack. To me he's just a hornly little man when it comes to his romantic life. He probably just wants to mark his territory on jean.

But wait... the kid who has potential to become the next Apocalypse is judging teen aged Scott now?!! lol Poor Scott. There a preview in ANXM #5 that shows Mystique might give him a shoulder to cry on. *gulp*

But wait... the kid who has potential to become the next Apocalypse is judging teen aged Scott now?!! lol Poor Scott. There a preview in ANXM #5 that shows Mystique might give him a shoulder to cry on. *gulp*

But wait... the kid who has potential to become the next Apocalypse is judging teen aged Scott now?!! lol Poor Scott. There a preview in ANXM #5 that shows Mystique might give him a shoulder to cry on. *gulp*