the problem is that any forum will attract a generic cross section of society, all the liars, rapists cheats and thieves as well as the folk you want. moderating looks like a mine field and tbh i dont see much wrong with es. yes you should jump on people who go looking for beef and the 3 strikes thing i like. locking useful posts i like. one way i see of looking at the things folk have differing opinions on is: if theres doubt it should be changed, then theres no doubt it shouldnt be changed, if you follow.

This is a great forum just the way it is, I like how its not a nanny state of over-policed threads. Like who causes grief here? We are just a bunch of tech builders and I have only seen it respectful and helpful. The only policy i would like to see in place is a commitment to becoming nothing like some other popular forums (like Whirlpool) and retaining the freedom of speech.

The original bicycle was created without a motor, but we can fix that!

Almost everywhere on E-S is used the abbreviation 3T or 3t for 3 turn motor but when using search there come many ambiguity results for 3T motor with (meaning Tesla). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_%28unit%29Because T is the official abbreviation for it. This is especial for 1 turn 1.5 turn 2 turn the case also vise versa. Its more than annoying.

My propose is to make it mandatory to use ( T3 motor ) as abbreviation for 3 turn motor to prevent ambiguity with the Tesla (unit).

Also the abbreviation for seconds and the battery serial cell configuration number is written the same like the other creating confusion also in search results.EXample:6s no one can now distinguish between 6second and 6serial battery cells.

Well, the first thing is that these are not really the kind of rules this thread is about. It's about behavior, etc. See the actual rules here:viewtopic.php?f=13&t=152for examples.

But even if it were for rules like you propose, there is no need for them, because context will eliminate the potential for confusion.

You won't ever have 6 second batteries discussed like that (at least, it's never come up here on ES), so if you're talking about batteries and say 6s, we're all gonna know you mean 6 cells (or groups) in series, and there's no danger of us thinking you meant 6 seconds.

It's also unlikely for anyone to be talking about time, and have someone think they are referencing batteries.

Same thing with motors and number of turns. I can't think of any discussions where motors are described by how strong their magnetic fields are, only in the number of turns...so again, not likely to be any confusion there.

Again, unlikely for someone to be talking about magnetic strength and have it confused for motor winding turns.

So while it would be nice if everyone always used clear and distinct terminology, then since it's easy to tell from context what they mean, I don't think there's really a problem to be solved in this case.

Now, if they are talking about a 48v 5A battery, vs a 48v 5Ah battery, *that* is terminology that requires clarity and correct usage, because if they really meant a 5A battery it's a totally different thing than a 5Ah battery (though one might also be the other).

Everywhere on the INTERNET the meaning of a T behind a number means Tesla.

But on E-S it is also falsely used as turn count.

I know that the context shows what was meant but watch the search result from above. You have to click on every result to read the context !

In the future this problem will get bigger and bigger as more motor designs with Tesla unit and more falsely motor turn count will be written. Also the trend goes to smaller turn count motors which lays in the number range the Tesla fields in a motor are. Llike 1T 1.5T 2T .

For the sake of tidiness this must be stopped.

If we all write "T2 2T motor" everybody knows instantly its a motor with 2 Turn counts and with a Tesla field of 2 ! Even the google search engine !

Is here on E-S a own glossary with index of abbreviations which have to be used from all?

It a betrayal of Nicola Tesla's heritage. 2T 4T .... should always and only mean the strength of a magnetic field !

from the WIKI"The tesla (symbol T) is a unit of measurement of the strength of a magnetic field. It is a derived unit of the International System of Units, the modern form of the metric system.One tesla is equal to one weber per square metre. The unit was announced during the General Conference on Weights and Measures in 1960 and is named[1] in honour of Nikola Tesla.The strongest fields encountered from permanent magnets are from Halbach spheres which can be over 4.5 T."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_(unit)

I really did my best to convince people here if no one is with me than excuse me its not the right place for me to "waste my future time"

Noobs wanting to make or buy stupid fast bikes as there first bikes so my question is this should the forum separate road legal and off road bikes to both discourage noobs and to legally cover peoples ass when they talk about faster high power bikes because if i post on the forum that my bike does 50mph or something like that all it takes is a crackdown from police to just look at the posts and track people down they can use this site as evidence against you so if its posted in offroad only section they cant say you have are admitting to breaking the law if someone was to do that

zackclark70 wrote:Noobs wanting to make or buy stupid fast bikes as there first bikes so my question is this should the forum separate road legal and off road bikes to both discourage noobs and to legally cover peoples ass when they talk about faster high power bikes because if i post on the forum that my bike does 50mph or something like that all it takes is a crackdown from police to just look at the posts and track people down they can use this site as evidence against you so if its posted in offroad only section they cant say you have are admitting to breaking the law if someone was to do that

That would be a huge job for us to police. Each country, state, even cities have their own laws.. any thread can go in that direction... that would be a nightmare to moderate.

Here's another thing. There's plenty of talk of not so legal ebikes on the net.. ES is far from being the only place where they are discussed. You know what's gonna be a legal problem? youtube videos..

And lastly, with free speech comes downsides. I'd rather have the downsides than a lack of free speech. There's no way i'd contribute to a place that is a nanny state.. i'm sure a lot of our long term members feel the same.

zackclark70 wrote:Noobs wanting to make or buy stupid fast bikes as there first bikes so my question is this should the forum separate road legal and off road bikes to both discourage noobs and to legally cover peoples ass when they talk about faster high power bikes because if i post on the forum that my bike does 50mph or something like that all it takes is a crackdown from police to just look at the posts and track people down they can use this site as evidence against you so if its posted in offroad only section they cant say you have are admitting to breaking the law if someone was to do that

That would be a huge job for us to police. Each country, state, even cities have their own laws.. any thread can go in that direction... that would be a nightmare to moderate.

Here's another thing. There's plenty of talk of not so legal ebikes on the net.. ES is far from being the only place where they are discussed. You know what's gonna be a legal problem? youtube videos..

And lastly, with free speech comes downsides. I'd rather have the downsides than a lack of free speech. There's no way i'd contribute to a place that is a nanny state.. i'm sure a lot of our long term members feel the same.

im not saying police what people say im just saying split it between say 0=2500w and 2500w+ or somthing like that so that people can see a clear line between every day bikes and high power bikes ( i have pointed a few people i know that are working on ebike projects this way and they have all come back beleveing its not even worth making a bike unless its over 4kw because everyone here recommends high power ) i have worked on bikes way over the power of 99% of this forum but i wont post about it here because people that have no idea what 100v+ 500A+ will do because they see all the posts with people making it seem like its nothing when people reading this forum can just about plug a charger in the right way around

The problem is that it's not just ebikes people are building or talking about. We have separate sections for different kind of vehicles. There would have to be separate off road subforums for each. Sometimes a build can go from legal, to not legal, back to legal again. Moderators can't be expected to read what power levels a person is running to move the thread about.

Also, we have 10 years of content here to recategorize.. Also, we can't expect people to properly categorize their threads. This creates a continuous policing job for us.

The law will do whatever it wants to do. It's the videos on youtube that will get people in trouble, and that is far out of our scope of influence.

People can't even put their for sale posts or wanted posts in the right category, and that's an extremely clear line.

I don't think there's any good reason to split builds based on power levels for legal reasons.

If you wanted to split off posts where noobs want to go 50-100MPH on nonupgraded wallyworld bicycles with a $10 budget, and stick all such threads into their own section so the same things don't have to keep being reposted? I might vote for that.

It might be useful for those looking to emulate high power builds to have an index of them, like Spinningmagnets' various other Sticky Index threads, but that's about all I can think of.

As an example--my builds are perfectly legal, here in AZ: CrazyBike2 is 4kW+, SBCruiser is around 3.5kW, but they are operated under 20MPH. Here there's no power limit, only a speed limit, for electric bikes. (gas bikes have a cylinder size limit). So there's no legal reason to segregate my threads from others with lower power, based solely on power levels. But a rule about splitting would then require mine to move out of the regular bike categories, for no good reason.

For my uses (sole transportation used for heavy cargo/dog hauling, riding in traffic), those power levels are needed to be safe. If I had say, 750W, it would take so long to accelerate up to 20MPH on either one that cars would run me over at traffic lights in the many cases I'm stuck at the front of the line (because often enough, I can't legally go fast enough to make it thru the light and can't just time things right because of other traffic on the road).

CrazyBike2 would barely be able to even reach 20MPH with any headwinds. On SB Cruiser, it's so unaero that it coudln't even reach 20MPH (more like 17-18 at best, assuming zero wind) with only 750W, and if there were any headwinds it'd be bogged down very slow, with some very angry car drivers running me off the road.

Of course, some improvements in aero could help with that, but it'd still be impractical at that point to use them for carrying much in the way of cargo, or hauling the dogs around. Wouldn't be safe to do anymore, based on my previous experiences with lower power levels doing this stuff.

if you dont think something needs to be done get someone you know that does not know much about ebikes to look on this forum and tell you what they think a good power and speed should be for a first ebike they will tell you 4kw + 50mph + now we know that noobs should not be trying for that and we should try and minimize the risk of noobs doing something stupid some of the threads about high power bikes have wellover 10,000 views so we know its not just registered users that see the posts im all for letting people do what they want but when 1 mistake could kill you be it from high voltage fire or a crash thats not counting fines and legal problems

the forum is does not have as many active users as it once did and other forums are taking users away from here you cant really blame them when so many threads are madness i get that this forum does not make money and the admins dont get paid but surely its in the spirit of endless-sphere to promote the safe use of electric transport and to push people in the right direction