Seriously...Miller looked like he was half in the bag and had just rolled out of bed. As pathetic of a performance by a politician as I have ever seen, especially in a situation as high-profile. I pointed this out in another thread, but that Wisconsin flag backdrop during a speech in Illinois was a nice touch.

The best part of the speech by Walker, at least for me: mentioning the WEA Trust. Finally. Its been a point that has hardly been brought up before, and its one of the big reasons schools all over the state are going bankrupt.

Can anyone think of a good reason why they are not pursuing the non-financial aspects of the bill sans the democrats? Why not take aways the dues check-offs, provide for annual recertifications, etc right now?

Wonder if we don't like the personal anecdots because we are hard core. If we are on this site we are pretty well informed. For the general public, this might work. According to the dems, the masses love this kind personal stuff.

"Can anyone think of a good reason why they are not pursuing the non-financial aspects of the bill sans the democrats? Why not take aways the dues check-offs, provide for annual recertifications, etc right now?"

----------------------------

Believe it or not...courtesy. Walker is going out of his way to be "too nice". Gotta remember that even though the GOP has control now, Walker has to work with these guys for 4 years...and with only 2 seats separating the majority from the minority, the Senate could easily swing back to the Dems in 2 years, especially if the economy remains painfully slow to recover.

Personally, I think they are just giving the Dems until Friday, which is the deadline for the debt refinancing. If the state goes $100+ million more in the hole simply because the Dems dont show up, I think Walker then has to go for the jugular and finish it.

I've only seen the Gov, and I don't think he really explained why it's not good enough for him to accept the union's conceding to the budget related issues. His argument boils down to, "because I said so."

I feel like he's especially disingenuous since he's completely exempted some unions from even the budgetary issues, e.g. pensions and health care.

I don't think the Gov justified his selective targeting of only some unions, if it's true that the budget requires really tough cuts. And, I don't think that he explained why he needs to take away (some of) the unions' ability to negotiate, even though they're willing to give him all of his budget cutting measures.

The point of emailing or calling an elected official is to be heard. The "job" of the folks screening and skimming the communications should be to analyze the incoming communiques. There should be some tally of sentiment, and this should be weighed against the relevant factors-- moral, ethical, constitutional, legal, or whatever is at stake in the issue.

If the sentimental majority already conjures with the pol's take on the relevant factor-- if unions in the public sector just don't make no sense to the private sector folks, and to a lot of public sector folks, AND are driving up taxes for no good reason-- than skip the anecdotes. Go for the argument.

Governor Walker really comes across well. He seems very calm and balanced and sensible. He's not angry and he doesn't come across as an extremist. Just a calm, competent, serious man who is going to do the hard job he was elected to do.

He's real presidential material I think. He seems almost Reaganesque in his speaking manner...a real refreshing change from Bush and Palin.

To do that at this juncture would look sleazy, like a cheat. The Dems are the sleazeballs here, and it is up to the GOP to take the high, but firm, road. It may drag things out a bit, but this worth doing and it is worth doing right.

Dunno. Im sure something will get posted at some point, perhaps on one of the TV news websites. It was about 3 minutes of Mark Miller barely saying one coherent sentence. And Im dead serious. Mumbling, stuttering. My wife, who doesnt care for politics in the least and was only casually paying attention, chimed in and said, "Who the hell is this? He cant even talk."

One of his lines was, "In a democracy, you get a little bit of what you want, you get most of what you want, but you never get all you want." I would love to salt that away for the next time the Dems have the majority and/or the governor's house and try to push through legisation that has strong GOP opposition.

Honestly...it was terrible. Even hardcore Dems would have had to turn away from his performance.

I've only seen the Gov, and I don't think he really explained why it's not good enough for him to accept the union's conceding to the budget related issues.

I'll tell you why. Because if he just accepted the union's concessions, the union would get back everything they gave up plus interest as soon the Dems were back in office. In order to make any meaningful long-term cuts, the power of the unions has to curbed.

AND it seems morally reprehensible and just flat out wrong for elected representatives to represent their constituency by running away like teenagers-- then there's no need for anecdotes. I am the anecdote. You are the anecdote. We are all anecdotes today.

And he doesn't have any of that speaking affection that Obama has that makes him so tiresome to listen to for more then a few minutes. Walker just speaks, clearly, like a regular person. He's not trying to be The One With A Historic Mission...just a competent public servant doing his job without theatrics.

Tread lightly conservatives as all fame is fleeting and the long term demos ie the youth vote, minorities etc. are all in the Dems favor as Walker, Kasich, Christie etc. may have just awakened a sleeping giant ~ Obama voters who stayed home in 2010.

>

Did I mention Walker got (1) million less votes in WI than McCain did in 2008?

"I've only seen the Gov, and I don't think he really explained why it's not good enough for him to accept the union's conceding to the budget related issues. His argument boils down to, "because I said so.""

--------------------

I disagree. Walker was quite clear tonight about the collective bargaining issue, and answered it directly. Didnt dance around it at all. And like I said, Im glad he mentioned the WEA Trust. As far as I can remember, thats the first time he has mentioned that publicly. I wish he had gone more in-depth into that, and actually gave some numbers as to just how much that WEA Trust marks up insurance that the schools HAVE to buy as part of their collective bargaining agreements.

Be nice. I mean the poor guy lives in the state that was one of the bastions of the 'progressive movement' and now they have a right wing GOP Governer and the legislature is GOP dominated and they're breaking the unions!

The 2010 midterms were one of the three highest voter turnout midterms in this state's history. Just over 50% turnout, IIRC.

"Tread lightly conservatives as all fame is fleeting and the long term demos ie the youth vote, minorities etc. are all in the Dems favor as Walker, Kasich, Christie etc. may have just awakened a sleeping giant ~ Obama voters who stayed home in 2010."

---------------------------

All fame is fleeting? 2010 was a record-breaking year with regards to seats changing hands of parties, both on a national and state level.

"Wonder if we don't like the personal anecdotes because we are hard core."

It's possible.

I know that part of me figures "but that doesn't *mean* anything" even when the anecdote is for my side of an argument.

OTOH, people must like them, and the best way to counter an argument by anecdote is to get your own. Walker picked good ones too, particularly the substitute teacher who won't get paid for those four days. Even while I realize it doesn't *mean* anything, I still know what it would mean to me if scheduled work got canceled. Hourly employees understand that it's not a "day off" it's a disaster.

And, of course, if that did happen the Ds could still give back everything, including collective bargaining rights.

Duh!

Walker and the Rs don't seem to know how to make a well considered argument that stands up to the slightest scrutiny. Maybe this is why Walker didn't bother providing a justification as part of his chat.

Without going back and going word-for-word, he basically said it costs too much at the local level to have it...which is correct. He then gave an example of how at the county exec level he wanted to make benefit cuts to save jobs, but the unions didnt cave and told him to, in his words, "lay those workers off". It was very articulate way to state the point that without reform at the local level, what he does at the state level wont mean anything.

shiloh said...Tread lightly conservatives as all fame is fleeting and the long term demos ie the youth vote, minorities etc. are all in the Dems favor as Walker, Kasich, Christie etc. may have just awakened a sleeping giant ~ Obama voters who stayed home in 2010.

the long term demos ie the youth vote, minorities etc. are all in the Dems favor as Walker, Kasich, Christie etc. may have just awakened a sleeping giant ~ Obama voters who stayed home in 2010.

Laugh out loud funny.

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 21% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-one percent (41%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -20 (see trends).

That’s the lowest level of Strong Approval yet recorded for President Obama and the lowest Approval Index rating since November.

"The union never made any demands to anyone. They agreed to every penny Walker asked of them."

-------------------

Thats because Walker did the smart thing and didnt give them the chance. Otherwise, none of these cuts would have been possible. You cant tell me for one second that all the unions in this state would have agreed to a 5% pension contribution and 12% health care contribution. If they would have, it would have been done under Doyle.

The best part of the speech by Walker, at least for me: mentioning the WEA Trust. Finally. Its been a point that has hardly been brought up before, and its one of the big reasons schools all over the state are going bankrupt.

The union never made any demands to anyone. They agreed to every penny Walker asked of them.

Imagine the PR coup it would have been for the unions to have voluntarily proposed, suggested and followed through on such measures. As it stands, it still looks like they (the Unions) thought them wholly unnecessary.

Obama got 1,677,211 votes 56% > Interesting Reps are talkin' about a mandate er "we the people" after the last election when Walker got over (1) million less votes than McCain did in WI. > Did I mention Walker got (1) million less votes in WI than McCain did in 2008?

I yield back the balance of my time.

shiloh: My guess is that you received a public school education. I see that as 100,000 fewer votes than McCain. But then, we don't know how many dead people voted, because the Milwaukee Police refuse to assist the District Attorney with voter fraud cases.

I didn't listen to the speech, I read the transcripts. My opinion is that Wisconsin has a hard row to hoe ahead of it, and we are fortunate to have such an articulate man as Governor Walker. Maybe, once Friday rolls around and the State cannot refinance some debt to save money, and employees are laid off, then people will realize this is not a bluff. I rather like it that the Wisconsin Senate is now canceling direct deposit for absent Senators for their pay: missing Senators must present themselves on the floor of the Senate in order to collect their pay.

"...he basically said it costs too much at the local level to have it..."

But, the unions are already conceding all of the budget effecting issues. Is the Gov saying that none of these concessions will actually go into effect, because they'll all be overridden by existing local contracts? In other words; the state wide changes are completely meaningless. Is that true?

"He then gave an example of how at the county exec level he wanted to make benefit cuts to save jobs, but the unions didnt cave and told him to, in his words, "lay those workers off"."

But, this time the unions have completely caved. So, this anecdote is irrelevant. Unless it's true that every local jurisdiction must also legally change the contracts. In other words; the changes in Madison have no effect until each individual locality also passes the changes.

If this locality autonomy is so strong, can some localities decide not to pass the Gov's changes, if these localities are particularly satisfied w/ the status quo? And, what if some localities want to pass tougher measures?

Are we sure that the state-wide changes need additional non-collective-bargaining-law-making in each locality, before they become effective?

Did I mention Walker got (1) million less votes in WI than McCain did in 2008?

By which you're trying to say he got fewer votes than his opponent? The governor wouldn't be able to do anything by himself - what really matters here is the people have given the Republicans control of the legislature.

Governor Walker rocked! The Democrats are going to have to put the varsity on the floor if they are going to try and beat him. I hope that he has the fortitude to follow through on the course he has set.

Oh, and it occurs to me that laying workers off costs a lot of money, too, because they'll receive benefits and unemployment and stuff. Does anyone know how much that might be? I couldn't even ball park it, but it makes the... what? opportunity cost?... of keeping a worker vs. laying off a worker a bit closer to a good idea financially instead of *only* a good idea because you're a nice guy.

But it's not ridiculous to imagine the union leaders (who aren't the ones going to be laid off in any event) preferring laying off some workers to make sure that there is no backwards movement in benefits for those still employed, particularly if the compensation packages for those let go are reasonably cushy.

As for the other... I'm actually sort of shocked that the teacher's union can force the state to purchase health insurance from the teacher's union. If someone simply asked me to guess if that was even legal, I'd guess that it wasn't. Conflict of interest, at the least.

And if school districts chose the much cheaper state program (as Walker suggested) the financial hit to the union organization would be severe. Big money corner-office protecting itself. (Let teachers pay the difference in the premium and "keep" the health care they prefer, just like Obama promised they could.)

And, of course, if that did happen the Ds could still give back everything, including collective bargaining rights. Duh!

They could, but public support for unions in general, and government employee unions in particular, has been declining for years. The next decade is going to see a lot of nasty budget cuts and tax increases, both at the federal level and in every state in the union. I doubt a public that is being forced to stomach paying more for less will be in any mood to generously reward state employees.

Democratic support for government employee unions will go the way of Republican support for homophobia. Neither is a viable long-term political strategy.

Article IV, §28 Oath of office. Section 28. Members of the legislature, and all officers, executive and judicial, except such inferior officers as may be by law exempted, shall before they enter upon the duties of their respective offices, take and subscribe an oath or affirmation to support the constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of Wisconsin, and faithfully to discharge the duties of their respective offices to the best of their ability.

the long term demos ie the youth vote, minorities etc. are all in the Dems favor

Oh man your timeliness is spot on:

Nestled within America's once-thriving coal country, 87-year-old Ed Shepard laments a prosperous era gone by, when shoppers lined the streets and government lent a helping hand. Now, here as in one-fourth of all U.S. counties, West Virginia's graying residents are slowly dying off.

Hit by an aging population and a poor economy, a near-record number of U.S. counties are experiencing more deaths than births in their communities, a phenomenon demographers call "natural decrease."

Don't worry, as your other posts have demonstrated, you can't handle basic math...

"Unless it's true that every local jurisdiction must also legally change the contracts."

If the *state* doesn't issue those contracts, of course they have to be negotiated locally. Schools and services are more often local than not. Every time Walker opens his mouth he says something about giving local governments the ability to balance their own budgets (much of which is paid by the state, just like schools get state funding per pupil, but not controlled by the state.)

Yep those outside protestors have made it all the way up to Green Bay and infected the Packers and the thousands of other folks who are protesting across the state-- I am going to have to reduce my self and call this guy a weasel.

"Are we sure that the state-wide changes need additional non-collective-bargaining-law-making in each locality, before they become effective?"

-----------------------

Yes.

If the collective bargaining stays in place, there is no way for local boards and school boards to hold down costs at all. Walker is going to cut state aid on a large scale, meaning municipalities and schools are getting less money to work with...meaning, they are going to have to make cuts. They (for obvious reasons) will want to fire as few people as possible, so the next step is to cut wages/benefits. If collective barganing for benefits remains in place, the unions simply wont budge...meaning it will force the muncipalities and school boards to simply fire people altogether. Which, in turn, looks bad for Walker.

Also keep in mind that Walker's plan eliminates union dues being automatically taken from checks. Dont think for one second that its this issue, and NOT the collective bargaining issue, is the union's #1 priority.

Oh and I read something shocking and I wish I knew where to find it but if Wisconsin simply continued forward and raised taxes to make up the difference-the average citizen of WI personal income tax burden would have to increase to an average of 42% of their income.

Well, Ann, it looks like you have quite a different crowd reading your blog today. They must assume since you are a UW professor that you buy into all that bitter leftist rig-a-ma-role. And, congrats on all your comments appearing in the NY Times and WSJ. It was fun to see you go nationwide. Good for you.

A lot of people keep saying that the unions have a greed to Walkers concessions. Have they? I am on a local board of education and I have not seen a ratified agreement for a new contract with these provisions.

The entire story that the unions have agreed to anything is BS as there is no-one in Madison that can commit the locals to anything. Mary and Marty do not have that power.

In the real world the new contract and work rules are much more important than the payments to pensions and about equal to the healthcare co-pay.

Wen we have to reduce staff by seniority and licenses only we end up with High School Band directors getting pink slips and E school music teachers who could care less about Marching Bands getting slotted for the position. This does nothing good for the kids, and drums up controversy where there should be none.

How about coordination of benefits? Almost every private sector health plan has had those provisions for 25 years requiring that both members of the couple have insurance if it is available at their employer and that fairly shares the family costs. Not in the public sector by and large.

Given the freedom to actually run our district and not just to be the tax collector for the unions we will be able to design competitive packages that attract the high quality staff we want and rewards those that get results for kids.

Those of us that are elected to run the schools in our communities take that responsibility seriously. lamphor

What Jason said is exactly correct. Localities, could, if they somehow had more money than they knew what to do with despite the large cuts in state aid, theoretically go the other way of course. But given the current fiscal reality, Walker is trying to enable them to cut benefits *instead* of cutting staff, because locally the union will always insist on the latter.

"so the next step is to cut wages/benefits. If collective barganing for benefits remains in place, the unions simply wont budge..."

This is not a logical argument. If the health care and pensions are state-wide programs, the localities won't be able to tinker w/ them.

So, if the unions lose collective bargaining with regard to the state-wide issues (HC and Pensions), the only thing they'll be able to negotiate will be their wages (which seem to be more controlled at the local level, and wages will still be subject to collective bargaining). Therefore, the unions will be especially belligerent when negotiating the only thing they can negotiate. Which will make them even less likely to cave, which will further exasperate the end game you're proposing, i.e. forcing firings.

And, why didn't Walker explain why he isn't going after all public unions, if the budget situation is truly so bad.

Wisconsin's tax burden is 12.3 percent of state income in 2007-- ranking it 7th highest in the nation. Wisconsin has ranked in the top ten of our tax burden study every year for the 37 years we have calculated them-from 1970 to 2007. 7th is the lowest rank for Wisconsin since 1980.

However, if the $15.2 billion tax increase were in effect for 2007, Wisconsin's tax burden would increase to 19.3 percent and rank 1st- 5.2 percentage points higher than Vermont's 14.1 percent tax burden that currently ranks highest nationally.

If we count the other tax increases passed by the Senate (approximately $1.6 billion more) Wisconsin's tax burden will be 20.1 percent. To give you an idea of how big that is, the federal government will take 21.7 percent of the nation's income in taxes in 2007.

If the Wisconsin Senate's plan becomes law, Wisconsin taxpayers will face the highest state and local tax burden ever, and their tax burden-federal, state and local-- will exceed 40 percent of their income.

Like Reagan, Walker has been tempered by actual negotiations with union bosses. To give an inch is an invitation for them to take a mile. He's been in the trenches and that's what he's learned. He's gonna hang tough.

And all the Conservatives that stayed home in '08 sure came out in '10.

Interesting Reps are talkin' about a mandate er "we the people" after the last election when Walker got over (1) million less votes than McCain did in WI.

As they say, "Losers always sing, 'Shut up and deal'".

Again, generically Reps beat the Dems by (5) million votes nationally as yes, the Dems had an enthusiasm deficit in 2010 and (29) million 2008 Obama voters stayed home.

The Lefties better get used to it. That deficit is getting bigger by the day, what with inflation, Americans being raped and murdered overseas and the country drowning in debt while the Obamas chow down on Waygu steak as they tell the rest of the country how to live.

Therefore, the unions will be especially belligerent when negotiating the only thing they can negotiate. Which will make them even less likely to cave, which will further exasperate the end game you're proposing, i.e. forcing firings.

There will be constraints there as well. Increases in excess of COLA will have to be put in front of the other stakeholder: the voters.

shiloh wants to play with five month old numbers to warn off Walker and the WI Senate. Perhaps shiloh, the AFSCME, and their myrmidons ought to digest these much more recent numbers Obama, Democrats Sliding in Polls

Tread lightly, indeed. All glory is fleeting, but in the case of the Democrats specifically and the Left generally, it has well and truly flown.

Why Walker is a weasel: According to Sunday’s Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, “county debt has risen 85 percent under Walker, according to Cynthia Archer, the county’s director of administrative services.” [Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 10/3/10]The enormous increase in debt is due in part to Walker’s $400 million investment in a risky stock market scheme because he failed to clean up the county’s pension mess. Walker’s 85 percent debt increase is also documented in the county’s financial report, which was released after the election and after he made all the false claims about lowering the debt in Milwaukee.

"This is not a logical argument. If the health care and pensions are state-wide programs, the localities won't be able to tinker w/ them."----------------------------------

Yes, they can. There is a provision in the bill that Walker is giving the authority for localities to deal with the unions in the same way he is. Its all tied into the collective barganing part of the bill. That's what Walker is referring to when he says "the tools" to help local boards and school boards balance their budgets. It means he is giving them the right to do the same as he at the state level.

"Therefore, the unions will be especially belligerent when negotiating the only thing they can negotiate. Which will make them even less likely to cave, which will further exasperate the end game you're proposing, i.e. forcing firings. "

---------------------------

That cant happen, either. Under current law, unions can only bargain for wages at 1% more than the CPI. That wont change with the new Walker bill.

"And, why didn't Walker explain why he isn't going after all public unions, if the budget situation is truly so bad."

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He will in his full budget that comes out in a week or 2...that will be something that the local municipalities will deal with at their own discresion. You saw how the teachers and state workers acted after the budget bill was introduced...Walker couldnt have full police and fire units come to Madison and basically strike if they had been included in this bill. It was a smart stroke keeping police and fire in the state aid cuts part of the budget.

Walker, that weasel, restructuring county obligations to fully fund the employee pension without cutting services! What nefarious plot will he think of next!

P.S. from Politifact:

"Milwaukee County’s dilemma stemmed from three sources.

First was the mega-generous pension benefits deal for employees approved by Walker’s predecessor, Tom Ament. It was outrage over the pension deal that drove Ament from office in 2002. Second, stock market losses slammed the county’s pension fund, along with those of many other such funds. Finally, Walker and the County Board underfunded pensions by $41 million from 2004 to 2008.

By late 2008, the county faced a nearly $53 million payment from its budget to the pension fund.

Instead of making the payment through tax increases or budget cuts, at Walker’s urging the County Board took a borrow-and-invest approach using pension obligation bonds. The county issued $400 million in pension-related notes on March 19, 2009, a county summary of the plan shows.

That partially shores up the county pension fund right now, but the county must repay the debt over 25 years. If the invested funds earn 8 percent, it could save the county $240 million. If they don’t earn at least 6.19 percent, the county could wind up paying extra.

In year one, the bond deal meant the county paid in $8.5 million less than it would have without the deal."

Those anecdotes were the velvet glove around an iron fist. Walker had to keep support strong from all those nice people who can't stand confrontation while simultaneously leaving no doubt in Unionland that he won't flinch. He did both. Good job.

RVDon't forget the Wackenhut debacle where Walker declared an "budget emergency" [sound familiar?], fired union security guards, [sound familiar?] hired a British security firm, Wackenhut, that ended up costing taxpayers an extra 500,000. Turns out the guy he put in charge of Wackenhut’s security at the courthouse had a criminal record and had served prison time. What an absolute train wreck.

It would be interesting to compile statistics regarding aggregate academic achievement as a function of administrators per student. I'm willing to bet that private and charter schools with minimal administrative staff outperform the best public schools with typical staffing levels.

His features are so strong, and conservatively angular, yet with a bit of a soft modern roundness to them as well.

I think conservatives should define their party based on the angularity of their candidates' solid facial features, the orderliness of their hair, the eyeballs that focus like a laser on the objects that have defined their goals.

Ritmo - you are confused if you think conservatives have faith in politicians. We are an utterly cynical lot - and simply hope for the best. Oh and why the elitism on lunches? SO what if the man brown bags it?

Collective bargaining changes in a budget repair bill proposed by Gov. Scott Walker wouldn't apply to administrators, who are not in unions. But other pieces of the plan would, such as a requirement that all workers who pay into the Wisconsin Retirement System contribute 50 percent of the annual pension payment.

So, you're saying that the localities will be able to require the unions to pay 100% of their health care, and 100% of their pensions. And, none of this would be subject to collective bargaining.

So, the new law will allow school districts to stop paying any health care or pension costs, if the local authorities unilaterally decide to do so.

This sounds like an excellent way to push the competent educators and administrators out of the system. Especially, since you've stated that there is no way that salaries can be raised to compensate for the benefit cuts.

The only folks who will stay will be the real losers, who can't do anything else.

Not that I'd ever live in WI (to cold, to far from stuff), but I'd really avoid the place since I know that y'all are choosing to run your schools into the ground. It doesn't help that your Gov's stated motivation is the pursuit of a vendetta against political adversaries from the past.

I don't care about his brown bagging (resist urge to insert political wordplay joke here). It's his obsessively regular personal habits and inability to enjoy any variety with his schoolchild idea of a mid-day meal which alert you to the fact that he's whacked.

"I think conservatives should define their party based on the angularity of their candidates' solid facial features, the orderliness of their hair, the eyeballs that focus like a laser on the objects that have defined their goals."

I see you're in fine form tonite - tired of bagging off about Ann's chasing salt trucks around Madison?

I just heard that Wisconsin has suspended directs deposits of Senators paychecks. If they want their paycheck they must come into the Senate Chamber to pick it up. Don't know if it is legal but it's an interesting gambit!

----I don't think he really explained why it's not good enough for him to accept the union's conceding to the budget related issues. His argument boils down to, "because I said so."---

No, his arguement is too complicated for you to follow.

For the others who can follow: He is changing the rules so the counties and cities can enter into negotiations and not have to struggle with the non-wage issues. Because the bought politicians find it easy to slip three extra sick days or some other costly non-wage benefit to the union and the public can't see it.

"So, you're saying that the localities will be able to require the unions to pay 100% of their health care, and 100% of their pensions. And, none of this would be subject to collective bargaining."

---------------------

Come on, dont be stupid. Nobody is going to do that...you wont get anyone to work there. My guess is that the figures will likely be in line with what Walker is proposing right now. Perhaps some will be more or less, depending on the financial status of the municipality.

"So, the new law will allow school districts to stop paying any health care or pension costs, if the local authorities unilaterally decide to do so."

----------------------

Schools and municipalities are two different entities. The state provides money to both. And like I said, no school is going to force its teachers to pay everything....you wont get anyone to teach there.

If the bill passes as Walker wants and the figures (5% pension, 12% health care) go through, I would be willing to bet less than 5% of the public and teacher workforce actually quits, despite all the hand-wringing that is going on in the capitol right now.

And with regards to the schools, this is where the WEA Trust comes in. If schools dont have to buy their health insurance through WEA (the union), they can shop around and get much better rates for similar plans. So the savings for schools will be astronomical.

I'm not in Montana; I just like the state. It's pretty like WI and no speed limit during the day - at least that's how it was last time I was there. But almost everyone here should know by now which region I'm at. Trooper does. So do PB & J and A.J. - even if the latter feels a little more pathologic about that.

LOL, Ritmo. It's not leader worship, just stating facts to say that Scott Walker is slightly more functional and successful in life than you, a garden-variety internet troll. Despite all the ham sandwiches.

Hey madawaskan, I took a vacation day to ski in the north country's foot of new powdery snow today. Thanks for keeping up the good statistics fight without me! I found out yesterday that the Budget Repair Bill does indeed address the WEA Trust monopoly. So glad. Easy savings by shopping through the state multi-provider co-op.

ps--I've been mostly skimming through the posts and might have missed something you've already said, but all good with your son in China?

"So, if the pols will never push the union beyond what the members would accept, why get rid of a process that prevents the pols from pushing the union beyond what the members would accept?"

----------------------------

Because the lack of state aid Walker is sending this budget (the next 2 years) will force school boards to push the union to a number that they wouldnt accept otherwise. Like I stated earlier...there is no way that Walker would have gotten the 5% pension and 12% health care contributions buy going the "normal" route. And if the dont agree to a contract, Walker has no idea what to set his budget at...and remember that he needs to set a balanced budget under law. Its something he has been forced to do, since he is refusing to raise taxes and/or borrow money.

Miller was horrible. What this union puppet doesn't get is that he believes in a government that can give you anything can also take it away. Well, the govt gave collective bargaining rights to the public employees (God sure as hell didn't) and govt can take it away. It was a big mistake and now is the time to correct it.

What's clear in this whole thing is that Walker has the interests of his state in mind, while Miller and the other Fleebaggers only represent the interests of their special interest puppet masters - the union goons.

But their way doesn't work anymore. The people who pay the bills are broke, largely b/c of them. Their days in power are numbered. They're literally on the run. Eventually, the undue influence of public unions will be over. America can't wait.

Maguro, thanks for the giggle back at ya, but seriously. Are you really saying that the Republican key to a good life, or a life well-lived = Power and Stuff?

Not really...just pointing out that it's possible to "live life" and do what you want to do while eating ham sandwich for lunch every day. Politics is Walker's thing and he's been very successful at it. Just because being governor isn't your bag doesn't mean that Walker (or Doyle or Pat Quinn or whoever) isn't really "living life". Whatever that means.

You're getting to the point that I first made when this thing started. And, Art mentioned it too. Jason's assurances that the pols won't cut deep enough to hurt retention further confirms that the Gov is avoiding the real problem at the same time he's not going to save much more that the unions would have agreed to anyway.

I have no idea why cons aren't pissed at the Gov for making this big fuss over these benefits instead of going after the policies that keep bad teachers and administrators in their jobs.

That's where I'd put my political capital.

I want to have the best schools in the country, and the world. To get there I'm willing to pay some serious dough because the community will make it back in the long run.

Instead of all out war focused on squeezing a few more percent on HC or pensions, I'd go after the ways unions hinder student progress in the classroom.

Instead of being wise, Walker seems like a vindictive, shortsighted man, who says he's motivated by political battles from the past. Not. A. Leader.

If he's serious about saving jobs at the expense of the (supposedly) union-preferred strategy of merely keeping wages and benefits high regardless of who loses jobs, then he deserves praise, in my book.

Honestly, how much do you think we could decrease unemployment if the workweek was simply shortened by a reasonable amount, reflective of this new economy and in keeping with the decreases that occurred after other periods of sustained increases in labor productivity?

Sorry Biggie, but I seriously can't see an ounce of similarity between this guy and a beleaguered yet much admired leader of his movement, who can't manage to remember to mention "keeping American spirits high" without writing it on her hand and makes reality teevee gigs her most important priority.

Nice work with NRO, madawaskan. You're quite the mover and shaker apparently!

As to skiing, I've been at it a long time and love it. (I always remind my kids when they get sassy on the slopes that my skis are older than they are!) Not much for good skiing in Wisconsin, though, so you've got to take "pretty good" when you can get it!

Glad to hear your son's ok. Last I saw from you his gmail had just been shut down. Good luck to him the rest of the year!

So, you're saying that the localities will be able to require the unions to pay 100% of their health care, and 100% of their pensions.

Just like private sector employers can.

And, none of this would be subject to collective bargaining.

Just like it isn't for 93% of private sector employees.

So, the new law will allow school districts to stop paying any health care or pension costs, if the local authorities unilaterally decide to do so.

Just like private companies can, if the owners unilaterally decide to do so.

This sounds like an excellent way to push the competent educators and administrators out of the system.

No. It sounds like something that will push the competent educators and administrators out of the system if all local governments do it. Just because it is possible to treat your employees like shit doesn't mean you will. My employer doesn't treat us like shit because -- duh -- it wouldn't be able to find people to work here if it did.

Personally, I have to contribute 50% to my health care, 100% to my pension (i.e., like most Americans I don't get one), and 97% to my 401k. So I kind of have to roll my eyes at the notion that people who are less-educated and less-skilled than me will flee the system unless those percentages are kept in the single digits. :)

I don't know how you interpret those results, but to me they strongly reinforce my point:

The gov and the Rs should be going after the policies that keep bad teachers and administrators in the schools.

Having WWIII w/ the unions over what may be a few percentage points of additional cuts in HC or Pension plans, is almost criminal, considering WI schools suck.

Moving the deck chairs on the Titanic is not leadership.

Rev,

I don't disagree w/ you. I think that the teachers know that cuts are inevitable (as you noted earlier), so they'll go along. This is why this focus on the particulars associated w/ the financial aspects is such a waste of political effort.

BTW, How is your 401k set up? If you put in a 97 cents, does your employer contribute 3 cents? That sucks.

I want to have the best schools in the country, and the world. To get there I'm willing to pay some serious dough because the community will make it back in the long run.

There is no correlation between spending on education and educational outcome. If simply throwing money at schools made them good, we would already have the finest schools in the world. Heaven knows we've paid for 'em.

The gov and the Rs should be going after the policies that keep bad teachers and administrators in the schools.

The teachers' union would be behaving in exactly the same manner if Walker had done that. The difference is that it would be a tougher sell to the public -- as it stands now, he can honestly claim that he's trying to deal with deficit problems.

Having WWIII w/ the unions over what may be a few percentage points of additional cuts in HC or Pension plans, is almost criminal, considering WI schools suck.

Breaking the teachers' union is a necessary step in any educational reform plan. Reform is not possible while teachers can collectively dictate the conditions of their employment.

Also, while it is true that Wisconsin schools are pretty lame, the sad fact of the matter is that you're in the top 10 nationally. If you want to see REALLY shitty schools, come to California.

"The gov and the Rs should be going after the policies that keep bad teachers and administrators in the schools."

-------------------------

But the CANT DO IT without changing the union collective barganing rules. As the rules exist now, about the only way a teacher can get fired is for some kind of misconduct. There is no kind ot merit testing, for teachers or administrators. If Walker wanted to come out and say, "I want to fire the bad teachers", nobody would get fired...first, he has no way to base his opinion, and second, any teacher that would be put on the "chopping block" would have backed union support; meaning, the union could just say "OK...we arent agreeing to a contract with you if you are going to fire so-and-so". He couldnt do it that way. It would be impossible.

The only way Walker can get the unions under his thumb is to do it "pre-emptively" like he is doing. Ever since Tommy Thompson left as governor, the teachers unions in this state have basically been set free to do and ask for anything and everything they want, and now they are pissed because Walker wants to reign them back in.

Reform is not possible while teachers can collectively dictate the conditions of their employment.

Exactly. Here is what Wisconsin taxpayers and parents are receiving for their money. WI 8th grade reading report card:

In the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests administered by the U.S. Department of Education in 2009—the latest year available—only 32 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned a “proficient” rating while another 2 percent earned an “advanced” rating. The other 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient,” including 44 percent who earned a rating of “basic” and 22 percent who earned a rating of “below basic”.

Our public school system is failing a significant percentage of students. Even as spending per student has risen, scores have only improved in low single digits since _1992_.

Science and math scores are poor as well...a pathetic report card.

Teacher competence can no longer be off the table or Shiloh's future voters will not have the reading and comprehension skills to make a decent living, let alone fund the government or cast an informed vote.

The best part of the speech by Walker, at least for me: mentioning the WEA Trust. Finally. Its been a point that has hardly been brought up before, and its one of the big reasons schools all over the state are going bankrupt.

While I appreciate Governor Walker raising the issue of WEA Trust I don't think he explained it sufficiently for the general public to understand. First, with his Wisconsin accent, he pronounced it as WE Trust; someone from outside the state - and even some Wisconsin residents - must wonder what he was talking about. Was it Wisconsin Energies (WE) Trust?

Secondly he failed to fully explain why WEA Trust is such a bad idea. Throughout the state, the teachers' union locals have used collective bargaining to force local school districts to purchase the teachers' health insurance from an entity wholly-owned by the state teachers' union - WEAC.

So in most cases local school boards are paying above-market rates for teachers' insurance from an entity owned by the teachers' union.

Don't live in WI and only been there once so it is not my fight and didn't watch the whole thing. The "fireside chat" is an interesting example of communication. He failed and perhaps hurt his cause.

Why did he do this? They must have internal polls that show him losing. Ten minutes is waaaaayyyyy toooooooo loooooonnnnnnnnnnng for the XXI century. No one except the Governor and maybe his mother will watch the whole thing.

Worst mistake is that in the few minutes I watched he never once, not even for a nanosecond, looked at the camera. Obama suffers from the same problem, but this guy is worse.

The best WI can hope for is a compromise that ends the union shop. The fear is that WI's taxpayers will lose big time in the future and AA will keep her $10,000.

As a resident of upstate NY, it seems to me that Gov. Walker was attempting to educate people outside of Wisconsin too in his fireside address. That seems to be a wise tactic.

It was mentioned elsewhere (NRO, I think) that he is communicating with other GOP governors. Could it be that he is setting the stage for the next front of the battle? We all know that a vast majority of citizens are not political junkies, so the specifics of the issues are always battling the optics. Optics are much easier to massage into a narrative that suits a side - can't change specifics unless you're willing to give ground. Gov. Walker used personal stories very effectively to control the optics to illustrate the specifics. That is smart politics. I can't help but think that the RGA is advising here as part of the larger war where the next front is set to take place in Ohio and is already underway in Indiana.

Believe me, my Democrat governor is paying close attention to the narrative in Wisconsin as we have to do the same thing here in NY. The editorial pages are filled with commentary on how all budget fixes begin with pension reform. Cuomo appears to be planning to take advantage of the narrative to achieve his goal of getting NY's monstrous budget under control. It's very interesting to watch.

"I want to have the best schools in the country, and the world. To get there I'm willing to pay some serious dough because the community will make it back in the long run."

OOPS!

In 1998, according to the U.S. Department of Education, Wisconsin public school eighth graders scored an average of 266 out of 500 on the NAEP reading test. In 2009, Wisconsin public school eighth graders once again scored an average of 266 out of 500 on the NAEP reading test. Meanwhile, Wisconsin public schools increased their per pupil expenditures from $4,956 per pupil in 1998 to 10,791 per pupil in 2008. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator the $4,956 Wisconsin spent per pupil in 1998 dollars equaled $6,546 in 2008 dollars. That means that from 1998 to 2008, Wisconsin public schools increased their per pupil spending by $4,245 in real terms yet did not add a single point to the reading scores of their eighth graders and still could lift only one-third of their eighth graders to at least a “proficient” level in reading.

The $10,791 that Wisconsin spent per pupil in its public elementary and secondary schools in fiscal year 2008 was more than any other state in the Midwest

I've only seen the Gov, and I don't think he really explained why it's not good enough for him to accept the union's conceding to the budget related issues.

Because the Milwaukee public schools union spent last summer in a snit because the board didn't want to cover Viagra. Because MPS union accepted layoffs of hundreds of (junior) teachers rather than take a reduction in their very rich health insurance benefits.

WASHINGTON -- Budget referees and transportation officials in Wisconsin have informed Gov. Scott Walker (R) that if he were to pass his controversial anti-union legislation into law, he could be forfeiting tens of millions of dollars in federal funds for transportation.

Under an obscure provision of federal labor law, states risk losing federal funds should they eliminate "collective bargaining rights" that existed at the time when federal assistance was first granted. The provision, known as "protective arrangements" or "Section 13C arrangements," is meant as a means of cushioning union (and even some non-union) members who, while working on local projects, are affected by federal grants.

It also could potentially hamstring governors like Walker who want dramatic changes to labor laws in their states. Wisconsin received $74 million in federal transit funds this fiscal year. Of that, $46.6 million would be put at risk should the collective-bargaining bill come to pass -- in the process creating an even more difficult fiscal situation than the one that, ostensibly, compelled Walker to push the legislation in the first place.

The governor is certainly aware of this. While the potential loss of funds may have escaped the attention of many observers, sources familiar with the state's transportation policy tell The Huffington Post that Walker's office has been informed of the relevant legal language. Moreover, in an a nearly unnoticed report filed by the state's Legislative Fiscal Bureau, the non-partisa

Over at the Buffalo Beast -- there appears to be recordings of a phone call between Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker and current editor Ian Murphy. Now, why on earth would Scott Walker want to talk on the phone with the editor of an online site in Buffalo? Well, he wouldn't.

But what if said editor pretended to be David Koch of the famed Koch Brothers? Well, that's a different story altogether, apparently! And so Walker, believing himself to be on the phone with his patron, seems to have had a long conversation about busting Wisconsin's unions.

"Instead of all out war focused on squeezing a few more percent on HC or pensions, I'd go after the ways unions hinder student progress in the classroom.

Instead of being wise, Walker seems like a vindictive, shortsighted man, who says he's motivated by political battles from the past. Not. A. Leader. "

The debate would be over if he'd settle for the dollars. The whole fight here is over reducing the collective bargaining powers of the union. Not over wages but exactly over 'how unions hinder progress' - work rules, techniques, staffing, all that.

I don't understand your anger and am inclined to conclude that it is insincere, but had not been accustomed to seeing crap after your nick, so maybe you are just mistaken/deluded/deceived. Or I am, of course. Either about you or about Walker's policy. It just seems that you have heard somewhere that black is white, and believe it.

I know a lot of people do not like the personal anecdotes-did that include the comments whom Walker did not know either? That shows that he is a l least reading emails and listening to what others are saying.