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ONA is "shorthand" for Open and Affirming, the designation for congregations, campus ministries, and other bodies in the United Church of Christ which make public statements of welcome into their full life and ministry to persons of all sexual orientations and gender identities.

As a teen I was coerced by my Aunt Emma (whose home I'd spent the night in) to attend a service at one of the ritzier Episcopalian churches in the city.

I was the first person sitting in the front left pew. After the sermon the priest walked up to me, took my hands, and said "May god be with you." I had no idea what to respond so I said "Thanks." If I'd been on my toes I would have asked "What god?" but that probably would have ticked off my aunt.

That was my first and only attendance at a regular church service. I've unfortunately been to too many funerals in churches and synagogues since that time but luckily no one has thrown me a trick question again.

Boo

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String up every aristocrat!Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

I really began to doubt supernatural explanations of things when i was 12 or 13. Oddly, although I had my share of getting called faggot and getting hit in school, most of my torture came in Saturday church school. There was a real group of creeps there that used to pummel me regularly. I guess the message of Christ wasn't getting through. I do sometimes end up in a funeral mass - but it has to be a really close relative - otherwise I go to the wake. I really like Roman Catholic rituals and the vast wealth of art and architecture it has produced (Notre Dame de Paris, the Vatican). I voted. Pax tecum.

Voted; was tallied. Started attending Episcopalian services about a year ago. I left the Roman Catholic church in my late teens because of the hypocrisy and fake people. I also have a dislike for fake, hypocritical people. However, they exist in just about every social strata and most organizations out there. Well, that's been my assessment. For the most part I am enjoying church-going again. I believe in a GOD............I also believe in a whole bunch of other entities the aren't promoted or perpetuated by western Christian religions. Yeah, I believe I have the right to question, inquire, expand....whatever it takes to grow as a loving human being. The jury is still out whether I will accept/fit in organized religious rites again. Human mortality: a cosmic joke or not, it's mine to enjoy and explore for a time.

LMAO....If I stepped foot in a church, it would prolly crumble. I am an eclectic solitary Pagan, how do you like that for a title? I never did appreciate having to go to Sunday School as a child and would get pissed listening to folks gossip about Suzie Q when they are suppose to be listening to the sermon. Also how come ministers seem to be the biggest whores of the church? Just wondering...

My most spiritual examination as a kid was studying the LP cover of the Broadway version of My Fair Lady (this was in the early 60s...). There was a Herschfeld caricature of G.B. Shaw up in the clouds using puppet strings to control Rex Harrison who was controlling Julie Andrews.

My Fair Lady is one of the few musicals I ever liked so I would listen to the album and examine the cover. I probably started listening to it before learning to read.

Boo

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String up every aristocrat!Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!

" I'm a scientist... we don't believe in anything." (Paul from "the Lost Skeleton of Cadavra", and if you haven't seen it you really should turn in your queer card.)

Seriously, I don't go to church, but I am a certified agnostic. I just can't find it within myself to be certain about something that you can't be sure of.... and I find people who are convinced they are right on this issue to be downright dangerous... and that's on both sides of the debate. OK next topic.

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Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

... I am a certified agnostic. I just can't find it within myself to be certain about something that you can't be sure of.... and I find people who are convinced they are right on this issue to be downright dangerous... and that's on both sides of the debate. OK next topic.

That is a rather broad brush labeling certified theists and atheists as "dangerous," dontcha think? I've been an atheist since adolescence but what someone else believes is her/his own business. As long as you don't try to convert me I will reciprocate fully.

As an atheist I have some issues of concern about U.S. society and how many major religions (or minor ones, for that matter) attempt to alter U.S. law based on religious doctrines inimical to major segments of society, like GLBTs, Muslims, Jews, Zoroastrians, etc. The U.S.A. was not founded as a Christian government even though most Americans were (are) Christians. Several major religions have long been a bane to GLBTs and still perpetuate the idea homosexuals/XXXXsexuals are mentally ill as well as pedophiles. As a gay atheist I am concerned about continued influence by these forces. As an agnostic you should be able to understand atheists prefer a more secular government, not less.

Sorry to hijack the thread but with a mind and memory span like mine it's miraculous I can finish a

Boo

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String up every aristocrat!Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!

That is a rather broad brush labeling certified theists and atheists as "dangerous," dontcha think? I've been an atheist since adolescence but what someone else believes is her/his own business. As long as you don't try to convert me I will reciprocate fully.

" I'm a scientist... we don't believe in anything." (Paul from "the Lost Skeleton of Cadavra", and if you haven't seen it you really should turn in your queer card.)

Seriously, I don't go to church, but I am a certified agnostic. I just can't find it within myself to be certain about something that you can't be sure of.... and I find people who are convinced they are right on this issue to be downright dangerous... and that's on both sides of the debate. OK next topic.

"You should never, ever doubt what no one is sure about."

Why does certainty on this issue equal danger but certainty in other issues not? I've heard quite a number of my agnostic friends say this... and I'm not exactly sure why a feeling of certainty in religious matters is dangerous.

As an athEIst, I'm not interested at all in making others the same... it's not a proselytizing creed.

Emotional reaction by asking that all people's beliefs be considered, not just yours?

If you can't or don't want to civilly argue that's fine but please don't dismiss someone's reaction as "emotional" and imply your beliefs are right and mine are wrong. That sort of thinking is dangerous.

I have no more onus to prove there is no god any more than a theist has to prove there is. It's based on belief.

You're the most prejudiced agnostic I've ever encountered.

Boo

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String up every aristocrat!Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!

I said, NEVER, but I will begrudginly attend a church service for funerals.

If people want to believe in something they can't prove, then so be it. But, I really can't understand why people fall for it.

Anyways, I've already been blessed or condemned. Never quite sure, which it is, but every year at Orthodox Easter, the Greek orthodox Church on the corner of my street, conducts the 'stations of the cross' down my street and round the block back to the church.

First year I moved in, I'd been out all night partying, and sleeping the next day. This little ritual was unbeknownst to me at the time, and I remember waking to the smell of incense and loud Greek or Latin gibberish. I got out of bed, dressed only in my pj shorts, and went to the balcony to see what all the fuss was about. Low and behold, there was the priest in all his garb, holding a shiny gold and silver cross, with about 400 odd worshipers, looking up at me and praying. As I was newly diagnosed at the time, I thought, WOW, word sure does get out quickly in this neighbourhood.

People will then often say, ' But surely it's better to remain an Agnostic just in case? ' This, to me, suggests such a level of silliness and muddle that I usually edge out of the conversation rather than get sucked into it. ( If it turns out that I've been wrong all along, and there is in fact a God, and if it further turned out that this kind of legalistic, cross-your-fingers-behind-your-back, Clintonian hair-splitting impressed him, then I think I would chose not to worship him anyway.)

I had never heard of her before. I'd always assumed that because of the separation of State and Church in the US, that pray in government schools etc would always have been on the outer. I had no idea of her existence, and her fight to separate the two, and that it was all so recent.

Australians are a much more secular/snon-believing lot compared to the US. I just checked our national weekly church attendance figures. It is estimated at 1.5 million out of 20 million population. That is, a weekly church attendance rate of about 7.5% in Aus, compared to 33% in the US (if the 100 million figure is correct)

If you can't or don't want to civilly argue that's fine but please don't dismiss someone's reaction as "emotional" and imply your beliefs are right and mine are wrong. That sort of thinking is dangerous.

I have no more onus to prove there is no god any more than a theist has to prove there is. It's based on belief.

You're the most prejudiced agnostic I've ever encountered.

Boo[/quote]

You're right that it's based on belief, which makes it oh so easy to believe with absolute certainty that you are correct. It's well known what happens to people who are completely certain in their own righteousness... they start off spouting things like "you're the most prejudiced ... blah blah blah... and end up with a gun in their hand just to make their point. Sorry, boo, but people who feel no need to examine their beliefs scare me.

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Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Your bizarre associations and sweeping declarations remind me of a schizophrenic during a psychotic break.

It's "well known" anyone who holds a belief is self-righteous. Right. So you're self-righteous as much as anyone else, unless you have no beliefs. You're so omniscient you know I'm the kind of person to take up a gun to "make" my point, my beliefs have not been examined before coming to them, I just plucked them from thin air, and my kind of thinking scares you. Your belief, sitting on the fence, is obviously the only correct one. Your thinking, black or white, is correct.

You scare me.

Are you hiding an anencephalic cranium under that hat? Ha ha!! Funny joke!

Boo

P.S. Thanks, Rod. I tried with limited success.

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String up every aristocrat!Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!

Your bizarre associations and sweeping declarations remind me of a schizophrenic during a psychotic break.

It's "well known" anyone who holds a belief is self-righteous. Right. So you're self-righteous as much as anyone else, unless you have no beliefs. You're so omniscient you know I'm the kind of person to take up a gun to "make" my point, my beliefs have not been examined before coming to them, I just plucked them from thin air, and my kind of thinking scares you. Your belief, sitting on the fence, is obviously the only correct one. Your thinking, black or white, is correct.

You scare me.

Are you hiding an anencephalic cranium under that hat? Ha ha!! Funny joke!

Boo

P.S. Thanks, Rod. I tried with limited success.

Boo... you're still attacking me. I haven't attacked you. And I'm not going to. I am just making a point that people who hold their beliefs with absolute certainty are more likely to react violently when challenged. Thanks for proving my point.

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Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.