And by the way, a little conspiracy theory on my behalf: I don't think they skipped adding the longer torture scene because of damage. I think the reason is, quite obviously, that as the music in the English shorter cut and Italian longer cut is completely different (different takes of the song) they couldn't properly edit the English dialogue into the scene without introducing ridiculous jumps in the music (try it yourselves!). So they just pulled a worn out print version of the sequence and slapped on the "too damaged to incorporate" excuse because they thought people would accept that excuse better.

If this is true then shame on them.

I'm hoping for the 50th anniversary of the film (2016) the Italians will offer a "special edition" with all deleted/extended scenes restored and provide as extras, among other things.

I'm hoping for the 50th anniversary of the film (2016) the Italians will offer a "special edition" with all deleted/extended scenes restored and provide as extras, among other things.

so far as I know, the only scene in the American extended version that is in any way trimmed is that torture scene

As I understand it, the extended American version has only 2 differences from what I call the "PERFECT version" (ie. the version that Leone originally intended);

1) The Cave scene should be removed

2) The Torture scene should have the extra two minutes or so (the full torture scene is available as an extra on the dvd/blu ray)

As much as I'd love to have what I am calling PERFECT version, the bottom line is that the version we have is pretty damn close, and therefore I highly doubt there will be any new release making these 2 changes. If you really want to have that version exactly as you want it, you may have to do a fan edit.

Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.

The longer torture scene was just like the cave scene never part of any theatrical version. And should stay where it is. In the bonus section.

really??? the longer torture scene was not in the Italian theatrical version?

(of course, I am not referring to the version shown at the Rome premiere; that version also had the Cave scene, which Leone subsequently removed. I am referring to the version that Italians would have seen in theaters in 1967). You saying that the Torture Scene that was in the original Italian theatrical screenings, is identical to the Torture scene that's been showing in America all these years, both in theaters and on dvd/blu ray?

if that's what you are saying, and if that is correct, then, just to confirm: the ONLY way that the American dvd/blu ray differs with the original Italian theatrical version is the addition of the Cave Scene?

------------------------------

p.s. so the Torture Scene in the Italian dvd/blu ray is the same as that on the American dvd/blu ray?

« Last Edit: October 28, 2012, 03:16:31 AM by drinkanddestroy »

Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.

Well, actually there is one difference between the original theatrical version and the US version in the torture scene. There are one or two alternate shots towards the end of the scene. But the length is identical. As far as I remember.

Well, actually there is one difference between the original theatrical version and the US version in the torture scene. There are one or two alternate shots towards the end of the scene. But the length is identical. As far as I remember.

Thanks for the clarification. So, aside from those 1 or 2 alternate shots in the Torture Scene, the only way that the extended dvd/blu ray differs with the Leone-intended version is the addition of the Cave Scene by John Jerk?

(I guess that we should be happy that the extended Torture scene was damaged beyond repair; otherwise, John Jerk would have no doubt added that in to the movie as well: I guess he would have believed it's exclusion would somehow be "jarring" )

Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.

I'm not sure if the longer torture scene was part of the Premiere version. Isn't there any information on the DVD. The Cave scene probably was, the Socorro scene most likely not.

I was 15 when the movie premiered in Italy in 1967 and I went to watch the movie on the second day after its release in a Genoa theatre. I am 100% sure that neither the cave scene nor the Socorro scene were included. I cannot remember however whether the torture scene was the extended one or not.

I was 15 when the movie premiered in Italy in 1967 and I went to watch the movie on the second day after its release in a Genoa theatre. I am 100% sure that neither the cave scene nor the Socorro scene were included. I cannot remember however whether the torture scene was the extended one or not.

Right. The Cave Scene was only shown one time: at the Rome Premiere (as far as I could tell from the MGM SE's bonus features).

if you watch the bonus features on the MGM SE dvd, where that cocksucker John Jerk tries to justify including the cave Scene, it is very painful and creepy to watch.

Jerk's ridiculous argument goes like this: Even though Leone removed the Cave Scene after the Rome Premiere, Jerk included it in the MGM SE dvd because he believed it would be "jarring" to the viewer to see Tuco just show up at Blondie's hotel with 3 pistoleros, without the Cave scene explaining where the pistoleros came from. And the fact that it was actually screened with the cave scene included -- albeit just the one time, at the premiere -- provides Jerk with the "justification" for including it in the dvd, since, after all, Leone did show it that way once.

That argument is laughable on its face. Firstly, for 35 mothertfucking years nobody was "jarred," but suddenly John Jerk needs to save us from being "jarred"? But anyway, it's a simple question: is he concerned with what Leone desired, or is he concerned that the viewer not be "jarred"? if he's concerned with Leone's desires, then the fact that Leone removed the scene after the premiere should mean that it doesn't belong there. And if his only concern is to save us from being "jarred," then why is any sort of justification about Leone having once screened it that way even necessary?

But Jerk wants to cover his fucking diseased ass, so he alternates between justifications, as it suits him: he needs to include it, even though Leone removed it, so we shouldn't be "jarred." But how can he justify including it when Leone removed it? Well, that's okay, because Leone did show it that way once. I mean, is this half a man serious? really? wtf kind of argument is that? I'm not exactly certain what latin term exists for that method of argument, but there has to be something.

Thanks Jerk, for ensuring that we aren't "jarred." I can't imagine where we'd be without your concerns. No doubt upside down with a pitchfork up our ass, getting jarred. But have no fear, John Jerk is here. So we'll never ever be jarred again.

okay, time to go to sleep. It's 7:49 on a Sunday morning. I hope I don't have a nightmare about John Jerk jarring me

« Last Edit: October 28, 2012, 05:50:31 AM by drinkanddestroy »

Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.

But Kirk also said that producer Grimaldi assured him that Leone wanted the scene in. Which actually was the main reason.

That may be true or not, but when the film was re-released in the early 80s in Italy all the other scenes which were in the meantime cut out form the theatrical version were put back, but not the cave scene. The original release version was restored, but not the Rome premier version.

But Kirk also said that producer Grimaldi assured him that Leone wanted the scene in. Which actually was the main reason.

That may be true or not, but when the film was re-released in the early 80s in Italy all the other scenes which were in the meantime cut out form the theatrical version were put back, but not the cave scene. The original release version was restored, but not the Rome premier version.

then why did Leone remove the Cave scene after the Rome Premiere?

i can't believe that it was cuz the movie was too long: the movie is nearly 3 hours long, so if you think it needs to be cut, cutting that one scene doesn't change the running time much; you'd have to cut it more significantly (like UA cutting it to 161 mins. in America). I can't believe that the cutting of that one Cave scene (and possibly trimming 2 minutes from the Torture Scene) would satisfy someone who thought the movie was too long

Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.