Above ALL else, in my opinion anyway, people have to remember that Kemba Walker is a Winner. All he does is win.Dude was the Dirk of the NCAA last year; carrying a 'mediocre' team, with no other real go to guys, and making them the best team in the Country.

Weak draft or not, the fact that we have a legit chance at nabbing THE BEST Point Guard in the NCAA last year (winner of the Bob Cousy award), and arguably THE BEST player in the NCAA, (Jimmer won the Naismith trophy, but Walker got more than a few first place votes, and was All-American first team.) is unreal. Brandon Knight shouldn't even be on our short list.

Above ALL else, in my opinion anyway, people have to remember that Kemba Walker is a Winner. All he does is win.Dude was the Dirk of the NCAA last year; carrying a 'mediocre' team, with no other real go to guys, and making them the best team in the Country.

Weak draft or not, the fact that we have a legit chance at nabbing THE BEST Point Guard in the NCAA last year (winner of the Bob Cousy award), and arguably THE BEST player in the NCAA, (Jimmer won the Naismith trophy, but Walker got more than a few first place votes, and was All-American first team.) is unreal. Brandon Knight shouldn't even be on our short list.

Kind of like Gordon Hayward, Rumeal Robinson and many others? Winning is certainly a nice asset, but it isn't everything. Bobby Hurley was a winner. Christian Laettner was a winner. Sometimes these things don't translate to a great NBA career. We all know Kemba won the NCAA Championship, but I'd like to see way more than that.

Kind of like Gordon Hayward, Rumeal Robinson and many others? Winning is certainly a nice asset, but it isn't everything. Bobby Hurley was a winner. Christian Laettner was a winner. Sometimes these things don't translate to a great NBA career. We all know Kemba won the NCAA Championship, but I'd like to see way more than that.

... ok ... but ... huh? Hayward didn't win the Championship..?

And what more could you expect to see from a guy in college? He single handedly led his team to not only the NCAA Championship, but the Big East Tournament Championship, of which he was the MVP, as well as the Maui Tournament Championship. He was the Most Outstanding Non-Freshman in the NCAA for the season.
Thats not just fluke run at the Championship. Or fluke shot, once in a lifetime.
Thats greatness, Tim. In my opinion.
Thats unique ability to come through for your team when they need a win.

Robinson NEVER had the kind of season that Kemba did. Not even close.

And of all the guys you listed, MAYBE Laettner can be compared to Kemba, and while with Minnesota and Atlanta, Laettner was a VERY solid player.

And seriously? You're going to Put Bobby Hurley in there? Really Tim? The guy that almost DIED in a car accident in his rookie season and suffered CRAZY injuries..? Really? Ok. Sometimes almost dying doesn't translate well to a good career.

ADD And why not name guys like 'Carmelo Anthony' and 'Mario Chalmers' and 'Joakim Noah' and 'Shane Battier' and 'Richard Hamilton' ... I could keep going.
You throwing those guys out is like how some guys throw out 'Gilbert Arenas' and 'Manu Ginobili' as proof that all Second Rounders are going to be good picks.

I'd say the Majority of guys who win Championships in the NCAA, and are the Main Guy on the team, go on to have Above Average Careers in the League. But I could be off on that.

And further more, I'd say the majority of guys that have seasons like Kemba did, more often than not, go on to be successful. But, again, I could be off on that.

Kind of like Gordon Hayward, Rumeal Robinson and many others? Winning is certainly a nice asset, but it isn't everything. Bobby Hurley was a winner. Christian Laettner was a winner. Sometimes these things don't translate to a great NBA career. We all know Kemba won the NCAA Championship, but I'd like to see way more than that.

Joey did say "above all else", implying that there was obviously more than just the winning.

joey_hesketh wrote:

ADD And why not name guys like 'Carmelo Anthony' and 'Mario Chalmers' and 'Joakim Noah' and 'Shane Battier' and 'Richard Hamilton' ... I could keep going.

Kemba Walker might be the most polished collegiate player in this year's NBA draft. He won the 2011 NCAA title with Connecticut, he finished fourth in Division I scoring (23.5 points per game) and won numerous individual awards -- All-American, Most Outstanding Player of the Final Four and Big East Tournament, Cousy Award -- and he had his number retired at UConn before he even declared for the draft.

Brandon Knight, the next in the line of one-and-done John Calipari-coached guards, was a first-team All-SEC player and set Kentucky freshman records for scoring and 3-point shooting.

Which point guard would you choose?

One of the many questions that key NBA decision-makers will face in the draft (June 23 on ESPN, 7 ET) is how to measure the experience of Walker, a 21-year-old junior, against the potential of Knight, a 19-year-old freshman.

To help us, let's use one of the key metrics for evaluating point-guard prospects: pure point rating (PPR), which calculates assists and turnovers into a single number projection of how a particular player will fare as a distributor in the NBA. The average PPR of all current NBA starters while they were in college is 1.2.

Walker had a 1.5 PPR in college. It also took him only 18 minutes per game to get a steal or block and he was able to score inside. His upside is the same or slightly better than Knight's, but he is definitely a safer pick -- his chance of failing is less than one out of 10. There are no red flags on Walker, making him a one-out-of-three shot of becoming a good player at the next level.

Knight, meanwhile, has a one-in-four chance of being good, but the numbers suggest that his chances of success ride heavily on his shooting ability, not his passing. Knight had a minus-1.4 PPR in college, which is extremely low for a point guard -- lower, in fact, than any NBA starting point guard’s college PPR except for Stephen Curry, who did not play point guard until his third and final year at Davidson.

Knight’s youth and specific metrics on steals and rebounds also raise red flags. In short, studies show that point guards with his characteristics don't live up to first-round expectations. Knight has about a one-in-three chance at failing -- he is an NBA player, but he is a poor risk for a lottery team.

Other guys have succeeded with such a low PPR; for example, Gilbert Arenas and Jerryd Bayless are point guards who are better as shooters than distributors. But it takes more than 40 minutes for Knight to get a steal or block, far more than either of these guys. And while his shooting is probably good enough to keep him around, Knight's defense could prove to be a problem, too.

And what more could you expect to see from a guy in college? He single handedly led his team to not only the NCAA Championship, but the Big East Tournament Championship, of which he was the MVP, as well as the Maui Tournament Championship. He was the Most Outstanding Non-Freshman in the NCAA for the season.
Thats not just fluke run at the Championship. Or fluke shot, once in a lifetime.
Thats greatness, Tim. In my opinion.
Thats unique ability to come through for your team when they need a win.

Robinson NEVER had the kind of season that Kemba did. Not even close.

And of all the guys you listed, MAYBE Laettner can be compared to Kemba, and while with Minnesota and Atlanta, Laettner was a VERY solid player.

And seriously? You're going to Put Bobby Hurley in there? Really Tim? The guy that almost DIED in a car accident in his rookie season and suffered CRAZY injuries..? Really? Ok. Sometimes almost dying doesn't translate well to a good career.

ADD And why not name guys like 'Carmelo Anthony' and 'Mario Chalmers' and 'Joakim Noah' and 'Shane Battier' and 'Richard Hamilton' ... I could keep going.
You throwing those guys out is like how some guys throw out 'Gilbert Arenas' and 'Manu Ginobili' as proof that all Second Rounders are going to be good picks.

I'd say the Majority of guys who win Championships in the NCAA, and are the Main Guy on the team, go on to have Above Average Careers in the League. But I could be off on that.

And further more, I'd say the majority of guys that have seasons like Kemba did, more often than not, go on to be successful. But, again, I could be off on that.

Perhaps you misunderstand. I'm not saying that college success PRECLUDES a player from NBA success. And I'm not saying it isn't an asset. But I'm not going to base my judgement of a player on it.

And being the best player on an NCAA Championship is nice, but it's no guarantee of anything. You know who Duke's best player was last year when they won? Kyle Singler, but I don't hear anyone chomping on the bit to draft him. The year before that, Wayne Ellington was the Final Four MVP, but he's not having a great NBA career, so far.And as you mentioned, Mario Chalmers lead Kansas the year before that. He was a second round pick and has been in and out of the starting lineup during his career.

Obviously there are lots of guys who have achieved success in the NBA after winning an NCAA Championship, but do you really have to ask why I didn't mention Carmelo Anthony? Really?

Gordon Hayward didn't lead his team to the NCAA Championship game and get within one shot because of a fluke shot. Just because he missed the last shot doesn't invalidate everything he did to get his team there.

Kemba Walker leading his team to the NCAA Championship is a great feather in his cap, and it should work in his favour when analyzing his strengths and weaknesses, but just because he did what he did doesn't make him a sure thing. The NCAA is a very different league and, quite frankly, the competition is a lot weaker than it used to be because the best players only play in it for a year or two. Most players leave before they would have the ability to dominate.

... Wayne Ellington won MOP because he hit 7-10 from 3 in the Final Four. Ty Lawson led that team the whole year, and look what he's doing in the league.

Again, leading your team to the Finals in fine. Good for Hayward. Kemba won 3 tournaments, by him self, in one season, and won the Awards of Acknowledgement to prove it.
And again, Kyle Singler NEVER had the kind of year that Kemba did. So ok, he won MOP of the Finals, and he'll be a First Round draft pick this summer.

Mario Chalmers just finished being one of the most consistent players on the Losing team in the NBA finals. That ain't bad.

To now just go on "The NCAA is weak, and thus Kemba really isn't that good." is such a cop-out response in my opinion.
And I NEVER said he was a sure thing, Tim. Thats silly. Nothing is a sure thing. What I am saying, and what MOST people are saying, is that he is the BEST player in this draft, right now. Maybe not down the road. But right now. That is all.

ADD So if Kanter had played in the NCAA this year, and won Player of the Year, won all these accolades, Won the Championship etc. you still wouldn't be sold on him?... Oh wait ... you're sold on Kanter and preaching his name after he ... did absolutely nothing, relative to what Kemba has done.

... Wayne Ellington won MOP because he hit 7-10 from 3 in the Final Four. Ty Lawson led that team the whole year, and look what he's doing in the league.

Again, leading your team to the Finals in fine. Good for Hayward. Kemba won 3 tournaments, by him self, in one season, and won the Awards of Acknowledgement to prove it.
And again, Kyle Singler NEVER had the kind of year that Kemba did. So ok, he won MOP of the Finals, and he'll be a First Round draft pick this summer.

Mario Chalmers just finished being one of the most consistent players on the Losing team in the NBA finals. That ain't bad.

To now just go on "The NCAA is weak, and thus Kemba really isn't that good." is such a cop-out response in my opinion.
And I NEVER said he was a sure thing, Tim. Thats silly. Nothing is a sure thing. What I am saying, and what MOST people are saying, is that he is the BEST player in this draft, right now. Maybe not down the road. But right now. That is all.

ADD So if Kanter had played in the NCAA this year, and won Player of the Year, won all these accolades, Won the Championship etc. you still wouldn't be sold on him?... Oh wait ... you're sold on Kanter and preaching his name after he ... did absolutely nothing, relative to what Kemba has done.

I judge a player by watching him, as well as on his scouting reports, but mostly watching him. Look, a good player for this discussion is Ed O'Bannon. He was a great NCAA player who lead his team to victory. He was a leader, won the John Wooden Award and had every bit the dominant season that Kemba did. In fact, Toronto fans booed when the Raptors didn't take him in the draft. And he completely bombed in the NBA where his NCAA pedigree did him absolutely no good. Now, some of that had to do with knee problems, but the fact is that, while he was a dominant college player, he couldn't find a place in the NBA. And that's exactly my biggest fear for Walker. I don't think anyone believes he's going to be an elite player in the NBA, and if you've got a guy who is used to being the best player on his team and dominating the ball, what role does he play if he's not the first or second best player on the team, and does he have the skills to be able to find that role? I'm not saying the guy is going to be a bust, but is he worthy of getting picked in the fifth spot? Is he going to be anything more than a Damon Stoudamire-type player, who struggled to find a role on a team when he wasn't the best player? Possibly, but I don't know whether I'm willing to bet the 5th pick on that.

I love Walker's pedigree, but in the end it's one of many things I look at and don't give it any more weight than it should be given. I like Kanter because I think his skills will translate well to the NBA. I can foresee the role he will play on a team.

The biggest reason I take Kanter over Walker, though, is the positions they play. If Kanter never becomes the player I foresee, he can still end up being a valuable big man, which is something every team can use. You don't need your big man to do be great. You just need them to fulfill their role on the team. You can easily get away with a decent center. At point guard, though, if you're not going to have a better than average one, you're always going to be looking for a replacement. The Raptors have had 3 decent PGs in the last 5 years and still no one is happy. The PG position is simply a more important position to have a better player at. I've no doubt Kemba is going to be a decent player, but if he's not going to be an All-Star, then he's got to be able to be a great role player. And I really have no idea whether Walker is either of those.

As for Mario Chalmers, I judge players based on their careers, not on a handful of games. Chalmers was a second round pick who has never been able to hold his starting position in 3 years. He shot under 40% for the season and had Carlos Arroyo and Mike Bibby start ahead of him.

Here is a nice interview with RaptorsHQ and the dude from Draft Express. I just took out the part about Kemba here.

RHQ: What about the Raptors themselves? You've got Kemba Walker sitting at number five in the latest mocks that I've seen, both on your site and the mock draft you did for Yahoo Sports, talk about the decision the Raptors have there as some of it may be predicated on what happens with the two teams above them.

JG: I think if you talked to Bryan (Colangelo) he'd tell you he's got a pretty big group of players that he's looking at right now, and even when I spoke with him before the lottery, before they fell to five, he was pretty much saying even then that a guy that you draft at three, could very well be taken at eight. So there's not a huge difference between that group of guys and with that in mind, I think your best bet is really to find the guy that best fits what you're trying to do as a team.

I think they want to get better on defense, and that's an option for them in this draft, I think Bryan will tell you that, and with that in mind, Kawhi Leonard and Bismack Biyombo are two pretty attractive guys. And then there are two very good guards in this draft that he's looking pretty heavily at in terms of Brandon Knight and Kemba Walker.

My sense is that they'd prefer to get Knight, but I'm not necessarily sure that, in my personal opinion, it's not a given that he's going to be better player (than Walker.) I think Kemba Walker's pretty good and I think that people are underestimating him quite a bit right now calling him a shooting guard and all this stuff. That's crazy talk. I don't think you accomplish what he accomplished this past season if you're not a really, really good player and I think that his game actually translates really well to the NBA.

So, yeah, I think they have a pretty big group of guys that they're looking at, which includes the Europeans, you know Valanciunas, Vesely and Kanter, and I think that they're definitely investing a lot of time and effort travelling around the world, going to Vitoria, Belgrade, Treviso…Colangelo has been all over as of late. So whatever decision he makes, isn't going to be because of a lack of information.

no point in having a slow point guard who can't defend a brick wall or make open jump shots for his life. I'd rather have 2 young talented PG's than a washed up spanish point guard like Jose.

Calderon was one of the few Raptors to actually have a positive effect on the team, when he was on the floor. The most important role of a PG is to run the offense and make his teammates better. Calderon does that.

Calderon was one of the few Raptors to actually have a positive effect on the team, when he was on the floor. The most important role of a PG is to run the offense and make his teammates better. Calderon does that.