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Re: Feds: 'Knockout' attack was a hate crime.

Originally Posted by LaMidRighter

Likewise to what I bolded. Laws should always IMO reflect the effects of the victimization and injury of others, I would never defend someone who victimizes the weak and to be perfectly honest, as much as I detest violence outside of a controlled sporting manner(boxing, MMA, martial arts, sparring, etc.) I even probably would have kicked that guy's ass for what he did to that elderly gentleman. Personally, I have no problem with this guy picking up a hate crime charge since it's already on the books and it appears very clear that his intent had a racist motive while I in general don't support laws based on "hate" factors, it may be hypocritical of me to take that stance but regardless that man did not deserve the injury he received and that sick punk needs as much prison time as we can legally give him, hopefully with daily beatings in general population.

lol agreed!

Originally Posted by RamFel

Genetically human & human being is exactly the same thing.

Originally Posted by Hicup

homosexuality is objectively wrong, but because science tells me it is, not politics.

Re: Feds: 'Knockout' attack was a hate crime.

Originally Posted by AGENT J

1.) so you acknowledge the fact they can now? you just dont like them following the law
2.) this is an opinion you are free to have

guess you have no answer to the questions

The feds can indeed run a case parallel to local authorities. However, I think the problem lays with the wording if the federal statute. For instance, the wording "protected class" is imho antithetical to "equal justice"... You can't have justice unless you prosecute equally regardless of race.

Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Re: Feds: 'Knockout' attack was a hate crime.

Originally Posted by j-mac

The feds can indeed run a case parallel to local authorities. However, I think the problem lays with the wording if the federal statute. For instance, the wording "protected class" is imho antithetical to "equal justice"... You can't have justice unless you prosecute equally regardless of race.

well since race is the class protected i dont see the problem at all, it factually applies to all races

Originally Posted by RamFel

Genetically human & human being is exactly the same thing.

Originally Posted by Hicup

homosexuality is objectively wrong, but because science tells me it is, not politics.

Re: Feds: 'Knockout' attack was a hate crime.

Originally Posted by j-mac

Maybe I'm dense, but you'd have to explain that one to me.

hate crimes are based on the protected classes of race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, and disability. So it factually applies equally to all races already.

what protected class are you talking about

Originally Posted by RamFel

Genetically human & human being is exactly the same thing.

Originally Posted by Hicup

homosexuality is objectively wrong, but because science tells me it is, not politics.

Re: Feds: 'Knockout' attack was a hate crime.

Originally Posted by AGENT J

hate crimes are based on the protected classes of race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, and disability. So it factually applies equally to all races already.

As the argument of this particular thread is about why the DoJ went after this particular guy, as disgusting as his act was, many believe it to be a double standard of race prosecution, as Holder's DoJ is investigating to prosecute this guy (white), when equal crimes have happened with the assailants race being black, with a white, or Jewish victim.

An example of why discrimination laws like these so called "hate crimes" have a bias in the law can be seen in the EEOC explanation of application, it reads....

"...some courts take the position that if a white person relies on circumstantial evidence to establish a reverse discrimination claim, he or she must meet a heightened standard of proof."

Now, why would a "white person" have a "heightened" standard of proof if the laws were applied equally?

In this case, the protected class I am talking about is based on the race of the victim, and as I stated, the victim in this crime was black, but to me it makes no difference, the crime was disgusting, and the perp should be prosecuted to what ever fullest extent of the law that we can level.

My question is why ONLY this perp. Other black perps in other similar crimes have expressed that they did the crimes they did, in at least one case resulting in death, against white victims are not being pursued as "hate crimes" on the federal level. At best it appears as bias stemming from the DoJ as to the criteria that they get involved, at worst, it is clear, and unabashed racism practiced against whites from the top of the DoJ using the power of the DoJ to go after white people, and let black people go for like crime.

Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.
Alexis de Tocqueville

2.) As the argument of this particular thread is about why the DoJ went after this particular guy, as disgusting as his act was, many believe it to be a double standard of race prosecution, as Holder's DoJ is investigating to prosecute this guy (white), when equal crimes have happened with the assailants race being black, with a white, or Jewish victim.

3.)An example of why discrimination laws like these so called "hate crimes" have a bias in the law can be seen in the EEOC explanation of application, it reads....

"...some courts take the position that if a white person relies on circumstantial evidence to establish a reverse discrimination claim, he or she must meet a heightened standard of proof."

Now, why would a "white person" have a "heightened" standard of proof if the laws were applied equally?

4.) In this case, the protected class I am talking about is based on the race of the victim, and as I stated, the victim in this crime was black, but to me it makes no difference, the crime was disgusting, and the perp should be prosecuted to what ever fullest extent of the law that we can level.

5.) My question is why ONLY this perp. Other black perps in other similar crimes have expressed that they did the crimes they did, in at least one case resulting in death, against white victims are not being pursued as "hate crimes" on the federal level.

6.) At best it appears as bias stemming from the DoJ as to the criteria that they get involved, at worst, it is clear, and unabashed racism practiced against whites from the top of the DoJ using the power of the DoJ to go after white people, and let black people go for like crime.

1.) nope, try looking up the actual HATE CRIME law.
a list of of protected classes is NOT the hate crime law

hell you dont even list sexual orientation which was added October 28, 2009 to the HATE CRIME LAW and is not yet added to the federal protected classes for the anti-discrimination laws.

do you even know what the hate crime law is?
a list of protected classes from the anti-discrimination laws does not translate to hate crime laws

so when you are ready please let me know what protected class you seem to be talking about that only applies to one race or doesnt apply equally to all races.

2.) and all these arguments fail until theres information that holder/DOJ went after this case for some biased reason or it was even holder himself, he could of assigned it also. All meaningless random fantasy until theres more.

evidence is what matters and in this class there was clear cut evidence to at least pursue.
a video saying he wanted to go after a race is pretty solid ground to at least pursue

there is no proof of "EQUAL" crimes yet in other cases, what EQUAL crimes are you talking about?

3.) dont know why that is for discrimination cases, you would have to ask those courts(what ever they are) why that is and why that happens in DISCRIMINATION law which has nothing to do with this topic. You are very confused about laws, rules, evidence, equal cases and mixing things together.

maybe start a new thread about that topic

4.) yes in this case the protected class is RACE which applies to all races.

well in law, thoughts and motives very commonly play a role, many crimes rely on this. SO that would be the bases of what hate crime legislation is based on similar to murder one and man slaughter.

The perp will be prosecuted to the fullest of the LAW and if theres evidence there was an additional law broken HATE CRIME LAW he will be prosecuted on that law too.

5.) seems by the stories EVIDENCE is the reason, this guy said on video he wanted to attack a person based on race. Did this happen in other cases? IF it did then the same should result. There has to be EVIDENCE not just two different races involved lmao.

6.) based on what facts? at best you seem to be making that up and guessing lol. Seems at best they are doing exactly what the law requires.

But if you have factual proof that there was clear evidence or clear grounds, like there was in this case, that also excisted in other cases and it was ignored then ill agree with you 100%. Please present those facts now.

anything else i can do for you today?

Last edited by AGENT J; 01-03-14 at 08:53 AM.

Originally Posted by RamFel

Genetically human & human being is exactly the same thing.

Originally Posted by Hicup

homosexuality is objectively wrong, but because science tells me it is, not politics.

Re: Feds: 'Knockout' attack was a hate crime.

1.) nope, try looking up the actual HATE CRIME law.
a list of of protected classes is NOT the hate crime law

hell you dont even list sexual orientation which was added October 28, 2009 to the HATE CRIME LAW and is not yet added to the federal protected classes for the anti-discrimination laws.

do you even know what the hate crime law is?
a list of protected classes from the anti-discrimination laws does not translate to hate crime laws

so when you are ready please let me know what protected class you seem to be talking about that only applies to one race or doesnt apply equally to all races.

2.) and all these arguments fail until theres information that holder/DOJ went after this case for some biased reason or it was even holder himself, he could of assigned it also. All meaningless random fantasy until theres more.

evidence is what matters and in this class there was clear cut evidence to at least pursue.
a video saying he wanted to go after a race is pretty solid ground to at least pursue

there is no proof of "EQUAL" crimes yet in other cases, what EQUAL crimes are you talking about?

3.) dont know why that is for discrimination cases, you would have to ask those courts(what ever they are) why that is and why that happens in DISCRIMINATION law which has nothing to do with this topic. You are very confused about laws, rules, evidence, equal cases and mixing things together.

maybe start a new thread about that topic

4.) yes in this case the protected class is RACE which applies to all races.

well in law, thoughts and motives very commonly play a role, many crimes rely on this. SO that would be the bases of what hate crime legislation is based on similar to murder one and man slaughter.

The perp will be prosecuted to the fullest of the LAW and if theres evidence there was an additional law broken HATE CRIME LAW he will be prosecuted on that law too.

5.) seems by the stories EVIDENCE is the reason, this guy said on video he wanted to attack a person based on race. Did this happen in other cases? IF it did then the same should result. There has to be EVIDENCE not just two different races involved lmao.

6.) based on what facts? at best you seem to be making that up and guessing lol. Seems at best they are doing exactly what the law requires.

But if you have factual proof that there was clear evidence or clear grounds, like there was in this case, that also excisted in other cases and it was ignored then ill agree with you 100%. Please present those facts now.

anything else i can do for you today?

Silly me, I thought you wanted to have a discussion on the matter. I have no interest in being insulted, and lectured to by you, with your arrogant tone....Have a nice day.

Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Re: Feds: 'Knockout' attack was a hate crime.

1.)Silly me, I thought you wanted to have a discussion on the matter.
2.)I have no interest in being insulted, and lectured to by you, with your arrogant tone....
3.)Have a nice day.

thats what i thought

1.) yes silly you because you because to have a discussion you have to have substance and you would have to know what you are actually talkign about, it has to be on topic
2.) you were never insulted or lectured, you were educated on the topic and corrected so the discussion could actually progress in a productive manner but i guess this doesn't interest you at all as you just proved

3.) i will, thank you, you do the same

after you read what hate crime actually be ready to have this discussion and to not dodge the questions. Also be ready to bring accurate, factual and topical information to the table

start with any facts that support your currently absurd claim that there is bias in this case and that the other cases are "equal"

also im still waiting for what protected class only applies to one race under hate crime laws

like i said if you can bring facts or logic to the table about your claim ill agree 100%, let me know when you can

Originally Posted by RamFel

Genetically human & human being is exactly the same thing.

Originally Posted by Hicup

homosexuality is objectively wrong, but because science tells me it is, not politics.

Re: Feds: 'Knockout' attack was a hate crime.

Originally Posted by AGENT J

thats what i thought

1.) yes silly you because you because to have a discussion you have to have substance and you would have to know what you are actually talkign about, it has to be on topic
2.) you were never insulted or lectured, you were educated on the topic and corrected so the discussion could actually progress in a productive manner but i guess this doesn't interest you at all as you just proved

3.) i will, thank you, you do the same

after you read what hate crime actually be ready to have this discussion and to not dodge the questions. Also be ready to bring accurate, factual and topical information to the table

start with any facts that support your currently absurd claim that there is bias in this case and that the other cases are "equal"

also im still waiting for what protected class only applies to one race under hate crime laws

like i said if you can bring facts or logic to the table about your claim ill agree 100%, let me know when you can

That's ok, I won't be having anymore conversations with you.

Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.
Alexis de Tocqueville