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There is one problem with Josephus's account, there are at least three versions of it... Generally it is beleived that it confirms that Jesus lived and was killed on the cross, and that some peopel beleived him to be the messiah, the version that has been quoted above is normally bleived to have been modified by a christian copyist.

Interestlingly, many scholars believe that when Josephus wrote "the messiah" in 93 AD it was in hindsight of the destruction of the temple in 72 AD during the Bar Kochba revolt. He probably relized that the militant messiah Shimon Bar Kochba was an impostor and that the real messiah was the messiah of peace, Yeshua. If the jews had listened to Jesus then the temple wouldn't have been destroyed and the Jews would still be in Israel. Furthermore Jesus had predicted the destruction of the temple.

Mark 13:1-4. "As he was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, 'Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!' 'Do you see all these great buildings?' replied Jesus. 'Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.' As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately, 'Tell us, when will these things happen?'"

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Josephus's account says nothing as to what was done to prove that he was dead.

Light breathing, a faint heartbeat, and no movement may look dead, but it isnt.

You seriously doubt the Romans let him live? Reread all of this

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Now about this whole Jesus couldn't have died, nonsense. The romans were the most brutal people in existence at that time. They were MASTERS of killing. They knew Jesus was a symbol and that he had to be killed so that order could be reestablished. They killed THOUSANDS of jews during this time. They knew when a man was dead. And he wasn't whipped, he was SCOURGED! You would die within a day after that but then he had to carry a huge cross all across town and then be nailed to it for 6 hours. HE WAS DEAD...end of subject. When the earthquake happened they were going to break his legs to carry him off the cross so he could die elsewhere, but they saw that he was already dead, and to make sure, they speared him. There is simply no way he could have physically survived. I really dont know how you rationalize this. You just cant...

edit: And to further iterate my point, here is a list of all Jesus' disciples and how they died.

Judas (Y'huda) Iscariot killed himself because he realized that he had sinned against love itself. And this was so tormenting to him that he hung himself to escape the pain.

1. Andrew (Andreas)..............................................................Crucified
2. Bartholomew (Bartholomaios).............................................Beaten then crucified
3. James (Ya'aqov, stepbrother of Jesus)...............................Stoned to death
4. James (Ya'aqov, son of Zebidee)........................................Beheaded
5. Judas (Y'huda, not the one who betrayed Jesus)...............Stoned to death
6. Matthew (Matit'yahu)..........................................................Speared to death
7. Peter (Shimon Kefa)...........................................................Crucified upside down
8. Philip...................................................................................Crucified
9. Simon (Shimon, the zealot).................................................Crucified
10. Thomas (Y'huda Thomas Didymus)....................................Speared to death
11. Mathias (Judas' replacement)............................................Stoned to death
12. John (Yo'anan)..................................................................Exiled for his faith; died of old age (Romans tried everything, even boiled him in oil, but he wouldn't die. This is probably because he was the only one of the disciples that had the guts to come to the crucifiction)

Now do you think that these men, all of them, were willing to go through all that for a lie? C'mon, They saw something profound in Jesus and they knew he was God and they KNEW that he died on that cross, and they KNEW that he came back to life 3 days later. Thats the only explanation there is.

Now let me add that the Jewish authorities wanted to make sure that Jesus was dead and that no one stole the body so they put Roman soldiers at the tomb. Let me repeat that... ROMAN SOLDIERS And they put a huge stone requiring 3 people to move in front of the tomb so that no one got in or out.
So your telling me that he managed to survive all that and then escape a tomb with a giant rock that took 3 men to roll and then overpower some Roman soldiers... Yeah right! There is NO WAY!!!! You have to be insane to believe that.

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instead he called it the "injel" ROFL!
He thought the name "alexander" was al-eskandar so he called him eskandar and left off the "al" because he thought, wait for it.......alexander was a muslim! ROFL 2X!
And he even mispronounces Yeshua's greek form "Yesuh" as Isa

...Yes ...
Kinda like the Persian word for Germany isn't Deutchland, its AlmAn, and the latin word for Purushotthama is Porus, and the Greek word for Kourosh is Kiros.

Also, the word for "Alexander" is somewhere in this noun phrase: "Arda Wiraz Nāmag" (old persian)

the article "Al-" simply means "the." It has nothing to do with islam.
Besides, the A in Alexander is pronounced /a/, whereas the a in al is pronounced /ɯ/.

I mean, come on! What was that?!

Dude we are talking about his understanding of these other religions and their words that he is supposedly understanding of. Which he's not.

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He was taught to by Gabriel.

I dont believe you. Show me where it says this.

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Jesus and all the prophets of the Bible were scholars

So now god discriminates by IQ?
Prophethood's based on good deeds and stuff, not literacy.

*coughs* your joking right? EVERY PROPHET IN THE BIBLE COULD AT LEAST READ AND WRITE. Most had VAST understandings of the intracasies of the Torah. Jesus himself at age 12 ASTOUNDED the scholars of his time by offering incredible insight into the scriptures.
Oh and by the way God DOES descriminate by IQ...To whom much is given, much is expected. -Luke 12:48 ...remember that.

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METAPHOR!!

Everythings a metaphor with you! When can I take a scripture seriously?

A very perplexed Cyrizian_________________You wrote that the world doesn't need a savior...but everyday I hear people crying for one. -Superman
To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him. -Earnest Renan

All the prophets were incredible studiers and spent most of their lives in DEEP study of the nature of God and the nature of his will. Isaiah, Solomon, Daniel, Jeremiah, Hosea, and all the others spent 30+ years studying these things. All were excellent readers and writers as well as speakers. Many were fluent in several foreign languages. Some wrote in these other languages. Jesus also spent most of his life in study and prayer. All have writen things that have changed the world profoundly even to this day.

And your telling me an illiterate tradesman who only spoke one language is a prophet? Much less, the final prophet? The man wasn't even qualified to lead a religious service much less any of that. He broke almost every law God ever made. He murdered poets for writing something bad about him. The man's character was so evil it makes me sick. And you believe this guy? Excuse me, but WTH is wrong with you? You can see with your own eyes that the man's fruit was rotten! Why are you buying it? ....Or God forbid, eating it?_________________You wrote that the world doesn't need a savior...but everyday I hear people crying for one. -Superman
To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him. -Earnest Renan

Did you forget what we are talking about? We were discussing Muhammed's ligitimacy as a prophet. You claimed that a prophet doen't have to be a scholar to be a prophet. I was saying how that is the opposite of every other prophet. Being illiterate automatically disqualifies him from prophet status.

You claim that my God discriminates by "religion gender, race and now iq."

1. Religion - Not necessarily. I believe all the religion in the world wont get a person into heaven. It is the RELATIONSHIP between God and man that ultimately does that. All that is really required is the acceptance of Yeshua's sacrifice as payment for sin. Everything else is trivial.

2. gender - ??????? Ive already explained this in another thread. Male and Female are ONE in Jesus. There is not descrimination.

3. Race - Again ????????
"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Now, go and make disciples of all nations..." MT 28:18-19
"Go to all the world and preach the good news in all creation..." MK 16:16
Seriously, someone must be feeding you false information about christianity. There is no scriptural support for what you claim.

4. iq - What I mean is your gifts. If you have a gift, you are expected to use it for good. If you use it for evil or do nothing with it, you are a waste of God's time._________________You wrote that the world doesn't need a savior...but everyday I hear people crying for one. -Superman
To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him. -Earnest Renan

2 - yes, but its still (iyo) all eve's fault that we're all doomed?
Also: see other thread (new stuff)

3 - israel is chosen for gods chosen people. Now, I have no idea why this is, theres probably a reason behind it, but at face value, seeing the israelis as gods people (which is, in itself, a silly and racist idea) does seem extremely discriminatory.

So? Lions have manes, no other cat does. Does that stop them being cats?
Cobras have hoods, no other snake does. Does that mean that cobras arent snakes?

Being a prophet requires a DEEP understanding of god and his nature and his will. Because he is so unfamiliar with either christianity or judaism and since he can't read or write or speak another language, his prophethood is in EXTREME question. He does things and says things that break many preestablished laws. He blatantly sins and says its ok for him to do it because he is a prophet. NO PROPHET WOULD ABUSE HIS STATUS LIKE THAT! Every prophet except Moses was celebate (moses never had any children either). But Muhammed took so many wives. My point is he cannot claim to be the "final prophet" if he doesn't respect those that came before him.

1. what I mean is religion (prayers, rituals, reading scripture, worship) means nothing if you don't accept the sacrifice AKA "the relationship".

2. You still dont get it. Yes someone is at fault (or partly at fault) and in this case it is the woman. But it doesn't matter whos fault it is. All that matters is that we work together towards something constructive. If we dwell on the past and on whos fault it is, then we get nowhere!

3. You have COMPLETELY misunderstood what that means. If you were chosen to clean the toilets everyday for the rest of your life NO ONE WOULD ENVY YOU! Now that I think of it it probably is kinda discriminitory...for the jews. You see the more I think about it the more I am convinced that they were made to bear the brunt of all the crap that happens in the world. Seriously you dont want the task that was given to them._________________You wrote that the world doesn't need a savior...but everyday I hear people crying for one. -Superman
To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him. -Earnest Renan

Being a prophet requires you to be good. If youre good enough, God will tell you herself the stuff you need to know.

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He blatantly sins and says its ok for him to do it because ...

When? :s

3. Id envy that person if it was god's toilet (... ok, bad example, i doubt god excretes ... but you get the idea)

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All that matters is that we work together towards something constructive

Presumably together applies to whole humanity, not just Christians? If thats so, you cant acquire togetherness until you stop alienating people (in this case, muslims). I mean, by some of the posts on this forum, it almost appears as if you dont want muslims' help!_________________

Being a prophet requires you to be good. If youre good enough, God will tell you herself the stuff you need to know.

Im glad you agree (though there is far more to it than that) But Muhammed does not fit this profile. He was arrogant, deceitful, cruel, viscious, dominating, lustful, jealous, hateful, enslaving, and brutally intolerant.

Id envy that person if it was god's toilet (... ok, bad example, i doubt god excretes ... but you get the idea)

You say that now, but if you were put in that position, you would eat your words...with ketchup

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Presumably together applies to whole humanity, not just Christians? If thats so, you cant acquire togetherness until you stop alienating people (in this case, muslims). I mean, by some of the posts on this forum, it almost appears as if you dont want muslims' help!

Honestly, Ive seen enough of Islamic "help." As long as muslims emulate Mohammed I will execise caution. But I wont alienate them. I have to be around them if I am to show them the error of their ways.

Cyrizian_________________You wrote that the world doesn't need a savior...but everyday I hear people crying for one. -Superman
To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him. -Earnest Renan

Most muslims do._________________You wrote that the world doesn't need a savior...but everyday I hear people crying for one. -Superman
To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him. -Earnest Renan