In her blog post Arielle Loren asserts that most women do not identify as being feminists even if they share its core ideologies, that there has been a shift in the contemporary agenda for women’s equality and that women are tired of rhetoric of hardcore oppression and patriarchy. She goes on to say that “frankly, all of the traditional feminist criticism of her “Who Runs The World (Girls)” video is just another example of the disconnect between intellectual theory and real life.” Beyonce is the face of contemporary feminism because women feel empowered listening to Beyonce’s music, so consequently, they take this “power” with them as they go on about their day to day lives.

Interesting.

Let me lay out my assumptions.

Feminism is not about being equal to men. All men are not equal. A black man from 135th street with a Harvard MBA does not have the same social capital as a Black man from 135th street who just got out of Rikers. Full stop.

Next.

We need to be clear about who we want to be equal to. In fact, we need to ask do we want to be equal or do we want to be free?

Second assumption.

Black feminists are rooted in Love.

Black Feminists are interested in creating spaces for men to feel because men who don’t feel do not know how to Love. Black feminists are interested in holding themselves, and others accountable when they say racist, homopobic ‘ish, because thats how we roll. Black feminists will get up in that behind when a rapper tries to make jokes and bets about non consensual choking of women during sex. Peace to Jay Electronica. The Black feminist I know are rooted in Love. Being rooted in Love means that you understand that you will not be able to have meaningful emotionally invested relationships with another adult until you have forgiven you one OR both of your parents for abandoning you. Peace to all my homies who are in therapy. We grown.

Black Feminist Love is hella grown.

We are so grown that we understand like Arielle Loren does, the importance of Black women being able to be sexual, complicated, whole human beings. We understand that is is particularly important for Black women who are rendered 50 million ho’s on the regular in pop culture. The mission statement for the Black Feminist blog Betta Come Correct states that:

BECAUSE BLACK FEMINIST SEX IS THE BEST SEX EVER…THIS IS ALSO A WAKE UP CALL TO ANYONE WHO INSISTS ON INTIMACY WITHOUT ACCOUNTABILITY, CONDONES VIOLENCE AGAINST BLACK WOMEN, OR REFUSES TO BE TRANSFORMED BY THE ECSTATIC MIRACLE THAT BLACK WOMEN EXIST. YOU ARE SERIOUSLY MISSING OUT.

So Black women having space to be multidimensional and whole is a part of the contemporary Black feminist agenda.

Back to Beyonce.

As you many of you know I have done a lot of writing about Beyonce, because I am concerned about how the messages that she conveys shapes expectations within Black heterosexual relationships. Given the fact that she made 80 million dollars in 2007-2008 and that earning that kind of money is extremely rare for people in general Black women in particular, Beyonce’s messages influence society and they shape how Black women look at themselves and their partners. Black women are not allowed to earn nearly 100 million dollars unless they are beautiful, talented, non-threatening to White men and they convey historical stereotypes about Black men and women. Dave Chappelle walked away for a reason ya’ll.

Because I care about Black women, I pay close attention to what Beyonce says.

It is dangerous to make open statements that women run the world, because there is so much evidence women get the shit end of the stick in the world.

Black, Latina and Asian women are sex trafficked in the Bronx, East Oakland and Las Vegas.

An estimated nearly 100 Million female fetuses and girl children have been aborted or neglected in China and India over the last thirty years.

Women are 50.7% of the US Population. Yet, women are only 16.4% of Congress. They are 17 of the 100 members of the Senate. They are 73 of the 435 member of the House of Representatives.

Women are routinely paid less for the same jobs that men do and this is broken down byrace.In fact when I told my students two weeks ago that they could graduate from college and be offered less money, just because of what was between their legs, they looked depressed.

They couldn’t believe how profoundly unfair it was. When I said that “Women are cheap labor” they looked mortified. I explained to them that shutting down was not going to create a more just and equitable world. That they cannot change a system if they do not understand it. And now that they do know that women are offered less money to do the work that men can do, they are expected to go out into the world and change it. Peace to the Equal Pay Act.

Poverty is feminized in this country, meaning that a main predictor of poverty is having a baby because children are expensive (childcare, healthcare, food, clothes, shelter) and there is very little support such as state/federal child care, paid federal family medical leave, support for families who work full time as parents.

We need to be honest about who we are tying to be equal to.

Women do not run the world. The world shits on women. Ask Ester Baxter. Ask SusanGiffords. Ask the woman who claims that she was assaulted and raped by the former President of the IMF. Ask Shaniya Davis’s family. Ask Ayianna Jones’s family. AskSakia Gunn’s family. Ask. Ask. Ask.

Now if we want to celebrate the catchiness of a Beyonce song, or honor her athletic ability, her fierceness as a dancer, that is perfectly legititmate. But to call her the face of modern day feminism is ahistorical and a slap in the face to Black, White, Latino, Asian, Muslim, Native American women and men who have been working to change our world so that being born with a vagina does not automatically mean being raised to be someones wife, street harassment material, nanny, slave or prostitute, but a fully developed human being.

I was with this article until it started saying how poor and sad women are. Isnt it like a self-fulfilling prophesy to say women dont run the world? Its like you’re opening yourself up to a pissing contest on who has it worse in life, men or women. Like u said, all men arent created equal in how good theyre doin in life, neither are women created equal in how terrible we’re doing (and ur kind of giving me a complex, bc I feel like Im doing awesome and not sick and sad and tired)

And… does ANYONE really DESERVE to earn $100 million, whether theyre beautiful or Albert Einstein, I think its unncessary and unethical to earn so much more than u could ever possibly need… so lets take that argument off the table also about how u have to fit stereotypes to do well in life. You also have to realize when you’re working with people, you may have to give up some of yourself for the sake of harmony and synergy… getting things done. Its your decision and prerogative to figure out a way to have it all.

Its also a slap in the face of feminists to piss on Beyonce like yall are doing. The heifer is at her prime, doing her best, and its still not enough, are u serious?

I’m about black feminism… I think as a black feminist I recognize the utter jealousy I have of Beyonce, but Im not going to justify my jealousy of her living her dream as an academic discourse on how far women need to come and saying she’s dangerous by saying women run the world. Bc, b.w Beyonce, Michelle Obama, Oprah, and Serena Williams, they have so much influence on all areas of life right now and they have a LOT of power.

You were close to enlightement when you asked… who do we want to be equal to? But u didnt finish your thought and started being a hater.

Women have a lot of power. We’re the majority, everyone has at least ONE woman in their life (unlike race and sexuality, everyone may not have a black friend or gay friend)… and so the world does not run like it does w/o women cosigning on it. Its sounds harsh, but its the truth… when women take Congress, etc, dont be too surprised if all the problems of the world arent margically fixed.

Huh? First of all, I haven’t seen any feminist discussion surrounding Who Run the World (Girls) that is “pissing” on Beyonce. I’ve seen discussion about what message Beyonce is trying to get across, if she is being responsible with the message, if it’s even true (it isn’t) and the like. It is incredibly simplistic and naive to say that she is “at her prime doing her best” and that is supposed to be the end of feminism. “Doing her best” is making an immense patriarchal bargain. Her being “at her prime” does not absolve her of adhering to patriarchal standards and norms EVEN WHILE stating that girls are the ones who run the world.

And the fact that you can list a few black women with money, the exceptions just proves the rule. It isn’t by any means equal. It is not the norm for women to have political or economic power. You just listed a few famous ones that do. But the vast majority are still being shit on by a patriarchy that pays them less, puts impossible beauty standards on them, devalues them as they get older, doesn’t value them as much from birth, polices their bodies, rapes, assaults, and harasses them, and pretending that some women having money negates these things does everybody a disservice. Besides, of course, the patriarchy.

“Does anyone ‘deserve’ to earn 100 million”? You sound like a disgruntled sports fan saying the ‘greedy players’ make too much money. The money exits because the players/artists generate it. Who should get it, the owners/corporations? Should there be government limits set on income?

“We need to be clear about who we want to be equal to. In fact, we need to ask do we want to be equal or do we want to be free?” Love this. Keeps me rooted in the fact that feminism, like all true liberation has to be deeply engaged in processes of revision and re-evaluation. So right and so necessary. Thanks for writing.

@MB
Thank you for reading and responding. I have a few questions for you.

1. What is your definition of Black Feminism?

2. Does the existence of Oprah/Beyonce/Mrs. Obama mean that Black women are in “power.”
Are you saying that if a few have (institutional) power then the rest of us are all right?
Isn’t this tokenism? If not, why?

3.Dave Chapple walked away for a reason. In a society where record labels, magazines and advertising agencies are controlled largely white men,- IF we care about Black women, don’t we owe it to them to interrogate why Beyonce earned 80 mil?

4. If women are in the majority and they have a lot of “institutional” power:
a. Why do Black women earn less than White men and white women for the same job?
b. Why is sex trafficking of teenage girls of color in Oakland, South Bronx and Chicago a huge issue?
c. Why can’t Black women make their own films about themselves and have them consistently released in Hollywood or independently?
d. Why were nearly 100 million female fetuses aborted in China and India in the last 30 years?

I look forward to your response.

~Renina

@Joan
Thank you. Your work (Chickenheads) inspired me waaaay back in 2008, when I was learning to have the courage to criticize rap music- and albeit R&B, publicly.

I think Beyonce is a nice money making distraction. She is not the face of feminism or really any cause except for mass entertainment. And while she may seem like some kind of patron saint for disempowered, and I guess, “single” women she is not really doing anything to further their empowerment. And why should she? However, I think this brand of soft or faux feminism for dollars is dangerous as it distracts from the real issues that women face and takes the spotlight off women who are actually furthering the feminist cause, but who may not floss in a tiny outfit and sport a silky lacefronts while shaking their booty and conforming to easy to swallow non-threatening stereotypes for millions.

“…shutting down was not going to create a more just and equitable world. That they cannot change a system if they do not understand it. And now that they do know that women are offered less money to do the work that men can do, they are expected to go out into the world and change it.”

I may have to put that on a banner and hang it in my room so that I’m reminded every day.

Your quote: “It is dangerous to make open statements that women run the world, because there is so much evidence women get the shit end of the stick in the world.”

Sorry! I don’t see anything ‘dangerous’ about making a girl power song. They are uplifting and awesome! Just because women do ‘get the shit end of the stick’ as you so put it does not mean women can’t listen to something that inspires us to be and do something more than that. Do we have a long way to go before that ‘short end’ is no longer given to women? Yes! Does that mean I can’t listen to a song that promotes it in the mean time? NO! And who says that every song has to be a direct reflection of the exact socio-economic state or status of a particular group of people (in this case women) anyway?

Oh yeah, *slaps forehead* you said this:

“Given the fact that she made 80 million dollars in 2007-2008 and that earning that kind of money is extremely rare for people in general Black women in particular, Beyonce’s messages influence society and they shape how Black women look at themselves and their partners.”

So…because Beyonce makes a lot of money I’m going look at myself and my partner different and possibly say “Yeah, girls run everything! I don’t need YOU!” toss my partner aside, but then get disappointed when I find out otherwise? Because Beyonce makes a lot of money and says a particular message in a song I’m going to disregard reality? Really? NO! You know why? ‘Survivor’ quote:

“CAUSE MY MAMA TAUGHT ME BETTER THAN THAT!!!”

You also said:

“Now if we want to celebrate the catchiness of a Beyonce song, or honor her athletic ability, her fierceness as a dancer, that is perfectly legitimate. But to call her the face of modern day feminism is a historical and a slap in the face to Black, White, Latino, Asian, Muslim, Native American women and men who have been working to change our world so that being born with a vagina does not automatically mean being raised to be someone’s wife, street harassment material, nanny, slave or prostitute, but a fully developed human being.”

Yeah…’Is Beyonce the Face of Contemporary Feminism?’ is just the title of the article…she’s not saying that Beyonce is the face of modern day feminism. I personally don’t think any ONE woman can be anyway. The author makes clearer her opinion by specifying that she disagrees with all of the animosity towards Beyonce and the video because it seems to fall out of the ‘norm’ of what is declared ‘feminism’, and that she feels something that is more representative of women today should be defined and states that “Beyonce’s video provides one more signal that women need a new movement. Can we finally declare first, second, and third wave feminism as history? Has the fourth wave of feminism finally arrived?”
But let’s just say I humor you. If she was saying this, why is it offensive? Just because Beyonce isn’t protesting a cause on a picket line somewhere doesn’t make her contributions to society any less valid. After all, lots of women did do this so that we would have the FREEDOM and the RIGHT to be ourselves, for ourselves, and make money to be able to support ourselves in any way WE choose being whomever WE choose to be. Beyonce being who she is and being an independent woman making HER money the way SHE chooses is her way of showing the rest of the world that, to use your words, “being born with a vagina does not automatically mean being raised to be someone’s wife, street harassment material, nanny, slave or prostitute, but a fully developed human being.”

I wasn’t aware that there were ‘qualifications’ for how one declares their feminism, as I feel that how one represents and displays that part of themselves is up to THEM. No, it may not resonate with YOU, but it doesn’t have to. The right to represent oneself as one chooses was and is a right given to me, you, and Beyonce (whether you feel she is acting inappropriately, representing incorrectly, or what have you.) by the as you stated ‘Black, White, Latino, Asian, Muslim, Native American women and men who have been working to change our world.”

With all that said, is THIS why people are so upset about the video??? I actually thought there may have been something real here…no offense, but if THIS is it…

The first half of this comment (i.e. everything prior to “my mama taught me better than that”) is covered by the author’s statement that it is fine to celebrate the song, the beat, Beyonce’s fierceness etc. Your critique seems superfluous in this regard, because ReninaJ anticipates and preempts you.

Second, you misread Arielle Loren’s piece, because in fact she did use Beyonce’s brand of feminism, if it can be called that, to critique what she feels are the limiting politics of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd wave feminism. The author of this blog calls bullshit because Loren’s “fourth wave” of feminism pivots upon some faulty misconceptions about the state of women, as exemplified through Loren’s use of Beyonce’s song. And the author is right to call bullshit. Every time women want a new “wave” of feminism (and frankly Black feminists do not really hold to this wave conception in the first place), you can’t just simply declare the past illegitimate, because it’s truth claims are inconvenient and keep you from uncritically shaking your ass. That’s whack, and thoughtful women can do better than that. We here at the CFC are all about being critical ass-shakers. Read our mission statement — that’s how this whole venture was born.

Third, just as you assert Beyonce’s right to express herself in any way she chooses, I assert ReninaJ’s right to challenge the validity of Beyonce’s claims. I hate when blog commenters forget that challenging the validity (rightness/accuracy) of what someone has said is in fact NOT the same thing as challenging their right to say it.

Finally, the notion that feminism is only about giving women choices is a very reductionist view. In fact, it is that faulty definition that allows a whole sector of women in this country to claim Sarah Palin as an icon of women’s empowerment. Feminism is about giving women choices, but it is about first acknowledging the realities of the situation that women face globally, so that when we advocate for choices, what we advocate for actually empowers women.

And frankly you can’t have it both ways: either it is just a song, hence no need for hateration or it is a feminist anthem. But your argument doesn’t work if you want to pursue both lines of reasoning, so pick one.

Like you, I think girl power anthems can be fun. This one is not my fave Beyonce anthem, but I do have some faves from her, for sure. I think what the author of this post is doing is merely responding to Arielle Loren, and suggesting that she not overstate the case. Girl power anthem–yes; feminist–not so much.

I guess in short what I’m really trying to say is the importance or non-importance of this song has been COMPLETELY blown out of proportion in every direction!

Personally I don’t think the Loren is looking at this song saying “THIS IS THE OFFICIAL ANTHEM FOR THE FORTH WAVE OF FEMINISM” Loren simply stated that this song didn’t match the 1st-3rd waves of feminism (I didn’t see her discredit them) and that the fact that everyone is so up in arms about it from a feminist perspective is signaling that it may be time to redefine feminism. Loren doesn’t make ANY conceptions, let alone misconceptions about the state of women—only saying that that women are multi-faceted and should not be put down for it.

..WHICH… I don’t know if anyone has actually looked at the lyrics of “Who Runs The World?, but that is all Beyonce is really saying. The lyrics are about being able to handle a working woman’s life and do it well—really not so much running the world as maintaining our own daily environments. Maybe it’s the title that is throwing people off??? But I really didn’t take the title as a political statement anyway—just another way to say “Do the ladies run this?” Maybe just the use of the word ‘world’? Maybe if it was called “Do the ladies run this mutha****?” everyone would lay off. Maybe if she had said “Who aspires to run the world?” ?

But like I said, I really didn’t take the song as some huge political statement. I don’t take a song as a direct interpretation of how an artist means to exactly represent the socio-economic status of a group (not if it’s positive!) unless the artists explicitly states that it is their political opinion.

Feminism for everyone is different. For ME it is about choice and making sure everyone has the power and ability to make those choices—to CHOOSE to be able to go to college and have what you need to make that choice instead of being forced to be a sex slave. To me, lack of freedom of choice does encompass the situation that women face globally.

Regardless, I’m not going to take an uplifting song and bash it. SO WHAT if some do see it as their feminist anthem? I guess I’m just insulted that the author of this post sees this as ‘dangerous’ as if just because they may see the song as one way or another that a SONG can make people completely disregard reality. I give people a little more credit than that. I think we are all free, intelligent beings capable of looking at a situation and analyzing it for what it is and I RESENT that the poster thinks that because Beyonce makes a lot of money and is Black, we will automatically hang on her every word as truth, and that she dissects her because ‘she cares’ about how we will think.

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PLEASE! I guess if you are somehow comforted by this, to each their own, but when she makes general assumptions like that, she can leave me out of them! I’ll take my girl power songs for what the are and run with them!

I have a few questions for you. As a teacher I tend to ask questions as they tend to reveal the assumptions that we have. Different assumptions lead to different conclusions.

1. What do you think my argument is in the post?

2. Do you agree that it is problematic to make songs titled girls run the world when girls (women) are routinely:
a. raped
b. murdered by their lovers
c . paid less than men for doing the same work
d. The majority of the US population but a fraction of its congressional representatives?

3. If Beyonce made “Black People Run The World” instead, would you find it inspiring? Or would it fail to capture how Black folks and people of color are oppressed both in the US and Globally. Peace to Oscar Grant.

4. Do you agree that the music that we consume shapes how we see ourselves?
If yes, doesn’t saying that girls run the world fly in the face of how girls in general, Black girls in particular are treated?

Every time I have a street harassment incident on the streets of DC because some Negro Man has decided to treat me like a sex worker, I am reminded that girls do not in fact run the world. If they did, I could run my errands, go get groceries, go to work, go from point A to Point B in peace without having to worry about violence or the threat of violence to my body for simply being born into THIS body and moving in public like I have the RIGHT to be there.

1) Your argument (please do tell me if I have misinterpreted something!) Is that to call Beyonce the face of modern day feminism would be insulting to people you interpret as truly representing this due to your feeling that “Girls run the World” is her ‘method of feminism’ and that thinking this way disregards the current situation of women around the globe–and that making her ‘the face’ would cause others to disregard women’s global situation as well.

2) No. Songs can be about anything—so is the beauty of music. It can represent something real or not real, truth or fantasy. The title of a song cannot solve nor make worse any of the issues you mentioned—it is just the title of a song.

3)I would feel the same. Again, all songs do not to to represent the exact socio-economic status of a group of people, and I would only interpret it as a political statement if the artist stated as such, and only them would elect to agree or disagree. Otherwise I would not take it literally and would just see it as a ‘Black Power/Black Love’ song.

4)Of course music shapes us to SOME degree, however I do not feel that the title of this song reject how women are treated around the globe. It is just the title of a song that I just take as a SONG. Nothing more.

And unfortunately even if we did run the world, in the case of street harassment (or any other crime), even if we made it a jailable offense punishable by death some guys would still engage in it. Making murder punishable by death hasn’t stopped people from committing the act. Being in control of the world doesn’t keep people from committing cruel acts towards one another—only a true RESPECT FOR LIFE can do that. (And I wish EVERYBODY had that!)

In one of your earlier posts you posit being a sex slave and being a working woman as a simple matter of choice between the two… WTF? You cannot be serious.

Much like your comment about forced sex work, Beyonce’s music has a tendency TO SPEAK FOR a certain class of women and contend that class of women is the only true woman. If you need proof than read the lyrics of “savior”, “independent woman” and even worst “diva”, a song that actively disses other women, who she perceives as not having power, which is equated with owning a personal plane. “Girls who run the world” is no different. Beyonce’s vision of empowerment is being college educated, going to the club and getting money, and making millions of dollars. all points made in the lyrics to the song. It is one thing to like a song. it is another to argue that a song describing one segment of women means we need a “fourth wave” of feminism. I think not.

Furthermore, you argue in another of your earlier posts that “feminism is different for everyone”. If that is the case then no one can make the argument for a new wave of feminism because there is not one principle that drives feminism. Therefore, Arielle Loren’s whole argument is void.

In full disclosure, I am no Beyonce fan. I like Brittany cause she married a bead beat; lost her kids; went crazy and shaved her head, but came back to the biz. How is that for empowering? (just joking, but not really.)

“That they cannot change a system if they do not understand it.”
“Now if we want to celebrate the catchiness of a Beyonce song, or honor her athletic ability, her fierceness as a dancer, that is perfectly legititmate. But to call her the face of modern day feminism is ahistorical and a slap in the face to Black, White, Latino, Asian, Muslim, Native American women and men who have been working to change our world so that being born with a vagina does not automatically mean being raised to be someones wife, street harassment material, nanny, slave or prostitute, but a fully developed human being.”

My deal breaker with Beyonce – is what she says (or doesn’t say) in her non-singing voice. She sells hair dye, she accepts awards, she sells Pepsi. That’s it. You can have an anthem, a rallying cry, but when it comes down to it, I refer to Chris Rock’s standup where he differentiates “rich” vs “wealth”. Beyonce is RICH, but not wealthy. Her own message is contrary to her song.

I can just picture people who really are wealthy just laughing their asses off at that song. 99.9% of people don’t have power, and never will.

“Feminism for everyone is different. For ME it is about choice and making sure everyone has the power and ability to make those choices—to CHOOSE to be able to go to college and have what you need to make that choice instead of being forced to be a sex slave. To me, lack of freedom of choice does encompass the situation that women face globally.”

Having the POWER and ABILITY to make choice was my statement. I didn’t state that becoming a sex slave or a college grad was a simple matter of choosing. I do make note that the power to make that choice (in this case being money, and access to schools) is needed. I apologize if that was not clear.

I do not feel the author is arguing that a song describing one segment of women means we need a “fourth wave’ of feminism —- she is saying that the fact that people are upset because the song talks about that segment of women is why we need a new wave of feminism.

Feminism is in fact different for everyone. However, (even though I do not think the author is making the case for Beyonce representing a fourth wave, only people’s animosity toward her a signal that we need one) there are principles that socially define those particular waves of feminism (or at least she feels so), and that is what she is referring to.

I think this entire debate is sad and I’m mad at myself for even reading most of it. We have bigger fish to fry in the African American community. The music/teachings/persona of Beyonce should be the least of our worries.

It is entertainment, If you let Beyonce, Jill Scott, Miley Cyrus or any chick with an itunes catalog determine your worth or role in society. May God help you because you’re truly lost.

[…] 6. Crunk Feminist Collective has a post about Beyonce being the face of feminism–or rather, on Beyonce being a fantasy that is in no way representative of women in the world. It’s to the point, amazing, and needs to be read. So read it. […]

[…] We need to look beyond the ballot box if we are to move towards true social liberation. I say liberation because I no longer believe that we can strive for equality. There is a difference between liberation and equality. I was reading a post at The Crunk Feminist Collective, and the author asked a profound question as she dissects the false notion that Beyonce is a champion of feminism. […]