Off topic, but that would be a very strange situation seeing LeBron going back to Cleveland. Would the fans accept the traitor back with open arms? If he goes back, does that mean the narcissistic LeBron actually felt bad about leaving?

Off topic, but that would be a very strange situation seeing LeBron going back to Cleveland. Would the fans accept the traitor back with open arms? If he goes back, does that mean the narcissistic LeBron actually felt bad about leaving?

Lol how is he a traitor or a narcissist?

At the end of the day he spent 7 years in Cleveland trying to win, but couldn't will the likes of Eric Snow, Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison (not all at the same time obviously) to the championship.

He made the move that was right for his career. Had he stayed in Cleveland, he'd likely be looked at like Karl Malone or Charles Barkley --- great players that couldn't get it done when it mattered. The only difference is he wouldn't have the MJ excuse like those guys do.

You really think LeBron in Cleveland would've been able to beat the Bulls or Celtics in the ECF? Or the Mavs/Spurs/Thunder in the finals? Those were all a struggle for LBJ with the HEAT for crying out loud.

At the end of the day the NBA is a business. Loyalty doesn't mean a damn thing. Look at how Portland amnestied Brandon Roy as soon as they got the opportunity. Shouldn't they have been "loyal" to him and kept him around? No because that's not how you win.

Look at it this way. If you were working in Winnipeg for a crappy startup company with incompetent coworkers, and one of the biggest firms in Toronto offered you a job where both you and the company would have more success, would you turn it down?

It's interesting that all the teams listed are those that we are competing for a playoff spot with. Not that I disagree with the list, but it would kinda suck to trade him to a team we need to surpass in order to make the playoffs. That being said, if Rudy were to be traded then we are probably sacrificing the playoffs anyways. In a different thread I questioned what we could get in return for Gay, and I thought any decent 2014 picks would not be possible. However, some of these teams could provide us with a decent pick(s) and potential pieces or expirings, and these 'borderline' playoff teams or those in the lower seeds wanting to improve for the playoffs would be good targets, especially if they are willing to part with draft picks.

At the end of the day he spent 7 years in Cleveland trying to win, but couldn't will the likes of Eric Snow, Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison (not all at the same time obviously) to the championship.

He made the move that was right for his career. Had he stayed in Cleveland, he'd likely be looked at like Karl Malone or Charles Barkley --- great players that couldn't get it done when it mattered. The only difference is he wouldn't have the MJ excuse like those guys do.

You really think LeBron in Cleveland would've been able to beat the Bulls or Celtics in the ECF? Or the Mavs/Spurs/Thunder in the finals? Those were all a struggle for LBJ with the HEAT for crying out loud.

At the end of the day the NBA is a business. Loyalty doesn't mean a damn thing. Look at how Portland amnestied Brandon Roy as soon as they got the opportunity. Shouldn't they have been "loyal" to him and kept him around? No because that's not how you win.

Look at it this way. If you were working in Winnipeg for a crappy startup company with incompetent coworkers, and one of the biggest firms in Toronto offered you a job where both you and the company would have more success, would you turn it down?

No you wouldn't unless you have a serious mental condition.

Firstly, it never makes sense to compare the average Joe's employment to that of a professional athlete's. Especially in this case since LeBron took LESS money to go to Miami. Would I take less money to go to a slightly better job elsewhere? It's not an obvious decision (regardless or mental capacity)

Secondly, tell the fans in Cleveland that it was a justified move. That's what I was talking about when I said "traitor". How will Cavs fans react to the guy who broke their collective hearts out on national TV, coming back with a smile?

Firstly, it never makes sense to compare the average Joe's employment to that of a professional athlete's. Especially in this case since LeBron took LESS money to go to Miami. Would I take less money to go to a slightly better job elsewhere? It's not an obvious decision (regardless or mental capacity)

Secondly, tell the fans in Cleveland that it was a justified move. That's what I was talking about when I said "traitor". How will Cavs fans react to the guy who broke their collective hearts out on national TV, coming back with a smile?

Firstly, it never makes sense to compare the average Joe's employment to that of a professional athlete's. Especially in this case since LeBron took LESS money to go to Miami. Would I take less money to go to a slightly better job elsewhere? It's not an obvious decision (regardless or mental capacity)

Secondly, tell the fans in Cleveland that it was a justified move. That's what I was talking about when I said "traitor". How will Cavs fans react to the guy who broke their collective hearts out on national TV, coming back with a smile?

And lastly, are you really questioning LeBron's narcissism? Really???

And just to be clear on the argument that "he left so he could win a 'ship b/c CLE sucked and wouldn't try to get better" -- check CLE's records with LBJ and those casts of idiots. They were FAVOURITES to beat CHI, BOS, DAL, SAS, etc. by the time he left. In each of his final 2 seasons, they won over 60 games -- historic numbers. The fact that they couldn't replicate in-season performance in the playoffs is on LBJ as much, if not more, than it's on his supporting cast, and they tried every year to bring in guys to improve -- many of them brought in at LBJ's urging, if you believe the stories... The fact is, James basically ran that franchise while he was there, and still couldn't get it done.

Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

And then there's the Dan Gilbert factor. After that scathing public letter he wrote, does he take it all back once LeBron becomes available?

Personnel decisions fueled by emotion don't always work out for the best.

I wouldn't underestimate the short term memories of Gilbert or the Cleveland fans. Of course it is "the King" we speak of here and then there is oodles of dinero for the owner and a return of some elevation of recognition for Cleveland at least in the BB world. I can see him breaking down at his presser and books will be written alongwith another ESPN special. James gets to set it right again I suppose apart from the fact that he probably gets a statue erected in Cleveland and a pretty damn good team to come back to. Powerful incentives for those living in the narcissism bubble.

This probably takes Washington off the Rudy trade board - the only trade I can see happening is Trevor Ariza, Otto Porter and one of Shannon Brown or Kendall Marshall for Rudy and I don't think that's too likely.

This probably takes Washington off the Rudy trade board - the only trade I can see happening is Trevor Ariza, Otto Porter and one of Shannon Brown or Kendall Marshall for Rudy and I don't think that's too likely.

I was just about to post the same.

According to ESPN it is top 12 protected

Gortat is expiring after this year.

I think we just got an idea of the value of a 2014 draft pick from a playoff bubble team!

Yeah, this trade probably puts Washington over the top, playoffs-contention-wise. Gortat means they can move Nene back to power forward (where he's a better player), which - Emeka Okafor is the better defensive player than Gortat, but Gortat scores better and is way more comfortable with the pick and roll, which will mean EVEN MORE POINTS for John Wall. Shannon Brown and Kendall Marshall upgrade their bench a bit more. Malcolm Lee probably gets waived to make the money work.

It's a great trade for Washington, and it's also a great trade for Phoenix. A 2014 first-round pick for MARCIN FUCKING GORTAT, good lord, that's amazing. Plus they get Okafor's expiring contract, and I will bet you anything by mid-season Phoenix shops Okafor when he's healthy to another team looking to rent a top defensive big.

I'm sure they'd have loved to, but OKC's first rounder is gonna be a lot lower than Washington's, and Okafor is a $14 million expiring deal this year (and is a very useful player when healthy). Perkins still has another year after this one at ~9.5 mil. If OKC was offering 2 firsts and maybe PJ3, I could maybe see the Suns thinking twice about it...but outside of that, Washington just had a much better deal to offer.

If Okafor is healthy by Christmas, I predict OKC trades Perkins and their 2014 first-rounder to Phoenix for Okafor.

tkfu wrote:

I'm sure they'd have loved to, but OKC's first rounder is gonna be a lot lower than Washington's, and Okafor is a $14 million expiring deal this year (and is a very useful player when healthy). Perkins still has another year after this one at ~9.5 mil. If OKC was offering 2 firsts and maybe PJ3, I could maybe see the Suns thinking twice about it...but outside of that, Washington just had a much better deal to offer.

To add to these thoughts....

Okafor's contract this year is $14.5 and Perkins is $8.7.

For OKC to take that contract on is going to be tough to make the numbers work when the next highest paid players are part of your rotations and make between $1.2 and $3.9M (Jackson, Adams, Lamb, Collison, Sefolosha).

Finally, OKC is just $500k below luxury tax. Every dollar over tax starts at $1.50 tax for first $5M plus they miss out on revenue sharing which is going to be big this year with Brooklyn. I don't see the Thunder missing out on the revenue or paying the tax - double whammy.

I'm sure they'd have loved to, but OKC's first rounder is gonna be a lot lower than Washington's, and Okafor is a $14 million expiring deal this year (and is a very useful player when healthy). Perkins still has another year after this one at ~9.5 mil. If OKC was offering 2 firsts and maybe PJ3, I could maybe see the Suns thinking twice about it...but outside of that, Washington just had a much better deal to offer.

The other side of that problem is that Gortat is expiring, which means that he's up for a raise this summer. It's unlikely OKC could afford him going forward. So giving up a pick or multiple picks for a rental.. painful. Whereas the Wizards are likely planning to resign Gortat and certainly can afford it.

Btw, Omer Asik is still very likely available for any teams in need of a center and willing to pay. His contract will last for two years, too.

The other side of that problem is that Gortat is expiring, which means that he's up for a raise this summer. It's unlikely OKC could afford him going forward. So giving up a pick or multiple picks for a rental.. painful. Whereas the Wizards are likely planning to resign Gortat and certainly can afford it.

Btw, Omer Asik is still very likely available for any teams in need of a center and willing to pay. His contract will last for two years, too.

(Washington, though, does have protections on the pick through 2019; if it doesn't convey to Phoenix next year, the pick is protected through 10 in the 2015 through 2019 Drafts, meaning Washington would keep it if it was one of the top 10 in any of those Drafts. If it has not yet been conveyed to the Suns by then, Phoenix gets the pick with no protections in 2020.)