No, they want someone like Varian, who, when push comes to shove, will fight back, but is an otherwise peaceful guy. Thrall is one lethargic dude when it comes to decisions, and even a pre-bomb Jaina pointed that out.

No, they want someone like Varian, who, when push comes to shove, will fight back, but is an otherwise peaceful guy. Thrall is one lethargic dude when it comes to decisions, and even a pre-bomb Jaina pointed that out.

You don't have a decent argument, since you don't have a decent comparison.

People saying they liked Thrall in WC3, that is the same Thrall we have now, believe it or don't, what you fail to take notice of is the situation is different to WC3, since Thrall has been thrown into a situation where he has to be neutral.

If he was leading the horde still and standing as warchief, you actually think he would do doing what he's doing now? He fought for his people as there leader, freed them from capture, fought against the alliance, and worked to try and maintain peace so the kind of shit thats happening now could be prevented.

Oh, and heres the funny side. You wrote a long winded post on how you percieve Thrall as being without flaws, and yet you just purposely highlighted one of his still flaws that Jaina pointed out in tides of war.

See, you don't have an argument when the evidence is right in front of you, your just choosing to ignore it.

I also believe myself to be a better judge of character for these lore characters then most of you, I saw what an asshat Garrosh was all along, and yet his forming fanboys thought he would last forever. I said Thrall would fight for the horde again, as he does in 5.1, but all you anti-Thrall charlatans kept trying to convince yourselves he would go off and not come back period.

The Thrall today is not the same Thrall as WC 3. If he were, he'd be a bland, flat, dull character that hasn't grown or developed. Thrall is not suited to be Warchief as he now has responsibilities that outweigh chaining himself purely to the Horde.

Thrall was the warchief they needed to establish the Horde.
Garrosh was the Warchief the Horde needed to escalate the story towards a renewed Alliance/Horde conflict.
The post-Garrosh Horde will need a warchief that can embrace Garrosh's zeal for battle with Thrall's wisdom for peace.

I will maintain my stance that Thrall should have a position as adviser, which seems more apt for a shaman's role in an organization like the Horde. It would allow him to guide the Horde through his advice, but also allow him the freedom to address non Horde/Alliance issues as a shaman and with the Earthen Ring regularly.

People saying they liked Thrall in WC3, that is the same Thrall we have now, believe it or don't, what you fail to take notice of is the situation is different to WC3, since Thrall has been thrown into a situation where he has to be neutral.

If he was leading the horde still and standing as warchief, you actually think he would do doing what he's doing now? He fought for his people as there leader, freed them from capture, fought against the alliance, and worked to try and maintain peace so the kind of shit thats happening now could be prevented.

Oh, and heres the funny side. You wrote a long winded post on how you percieve Thrall as being without flaws, and yet you just purposely highlighted one of his still flaws that Jaina pointed out in tides of war.

No, I did not write a long winded post on Thrall being perfect (unless it's a green jesus mocking on-liner). He's a lethargic leader. Proof that he let Undercity be unchecked, and still picked Garrosh as leader when Gamon could have been better. He hasn't made colossal fails of decisions like that in WC3. His first best bro got killed, did nothing. He waited on his ally-friend's city to be nuked, did zero about it, and only decides to finally take action when his other best bro gets assassinated. That's LETHARGY in definition, in addition to epic fail decision-making (or lack thereof)

I also believe myself to be a better judge of character for these lore characters then most of you, I saw what an asshat Garrosh was all along, and yet his forming fanboys thought he would last forever. I said Thrall would fight for the horde again, as he does in 5.1, but all you anti-Thrall charlatans kept trying to convince yourselves he would go off and not come back period.

Now you're going full retard. MMO-C is not a hivemind. Personally I don't give a shit who becomes the new Warchief, as I was more worried about the lack of Alliance development in Cata during Garrosh's reign. Let me get this straight---if I don't like Thrall I'm a Garroshan asshat? Is that the red herring you want to keep trotting?

Perhaps an idea is to have the Horde return to a system whereby all clans are ruled by their Chieftains. Thrall would return as Chieftain of the Frostwolves. In addition to that would be a council of Chieftains that could elect a Warchief, in times of war.

Perhaps an idea is to have the Horde return to a system whereby all clans are ruled by their Chieftains. Thrall would return as Chieftain of the Frostwolves. In addition to that would be a council of Chieftains that could elect a Warchief, in times of war.

I say again, that's how the Alliance is supposed function and Blizzard has proven unable to do so.
Do you think they could pull it off with the Horde?

I think that, at this point in the story, Thrall is way better suited to being a sort of spiritual adviser to whoever is the current Warchief. Sort of a Secretary of Aspect Affairs, or an Ambassador to Azeroth. With Thrall's skill set and natural charisma, he's way better suited to being out in the world, assisting where necessary and pushing forward the Horde cause, not being stuck in Orgrimmar approving budget requests for the ongoing repair efforts.

Thrall is one of the (main) reasons that Cata sucked imo, I don't want to see him back any time soon. Its bad enough that his new wife Aggra is so annoying, and her constant ''GO'EL!'' screeching is making my ears cringe.

While I liked him in WC3 and up till WotLK, he has become too much of Warcraft's posterboy. He used to be just ''one of the guys'' in lore, along with Tyrande, Magni and such. Now Blizzard suddenly wants him to be much more, and ultimately turned him into a green superhero Jesus. I was getting so sick of see'ing him all the time in Cata, he even got his own f***ing book and steals my Deathwing kill, which I worked for.

My solution to restore ''good'' lore back to Warcraft, is if Thrall heroically sacrifices himself to either kill or save Garrosh from the Sha. If Garrosh is dead, the Horde can decide to no longer have a warchief, but rather lead the Horde with all the faction leaders in some sort of council. If Garrosh is alive, he can be redeemed to be a good guy after realising all the horrible things he has done, and further lead to Horde in Thralls honor.

But yeah... Blizzard is just gonna do ''Thrall kills Garrosh and picks up the Warchief's mantle again'', just watch...

I thought that was some really good storytelling as an example of grief and anger and the effects it has on us, and yet you tried to see that chain in the worst possible way? really?

"I cringed when they had the same voice actress...crying for her killed husband"

Nothing in that statement says I had any problem with the story, nor the quest chain. I just hated that particular point in the quest chain because the voice actress sounded EXACTLY IDENTICAL to Aggra. Absolutely no attempt to alter the presentation. It even bordered on Aggra's accent at that point, which is unacceptable to me. Nothing about a pandaren accent should remind me of Aggra's. I am NOT a fan of that voice actress as Aggra in the least so hearing her sounding like Aggra when not portraying Aggra was indeed jarring for me.

Thrall needs to die. I'd reactivate my sub for a month just to see the part of the story where he dies.

---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 01:42 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Trassk

I also believe myself to be a better judge of character for these lore characters then most of you, I saw what an asshat Garrosh was all along, and yet his forming fanboys thought he would last forever. I said Thrall would fight for the horde again, as he does in 5.1, but all you anti-Thrall charlatans kept trying to convince yourselves he would go off and not come back period.

Your all just bad judges of characterization for this kind of genre.

God you are on an even higher horse than usual today, aren't you?

WoW having more subs than SWTOR is the same thing as Justin Bieber having more youtube plays than Tupac. Just because its more popular doesn't mean its good.
Warcraft Lore has gone from one of the most vast and interesting stories in all of gaming to a bad Thrall Fanfic by Chris Metzen.
SWTOR Referral link: http://www.swtor.com/r/2MpjV9 7 free days and other free stuff.

Trassk, I understand that you like Thrall but I think you need to step away from this thread. You're almost as defensive of Thrall as Metzen is and that just isn't healthy.

I'm sorry what?

Metzen is defensive of Thrall, so your saying a creator of a fictional character can't defend his characters in an argument or anyone speaking against said character?

You know i might go overboard to you, but at least I understand where someone like metzen comes from with his characters. As a long time comic book fan, I see how he writes the lore characters in a comic book fashion, its recognizable, heroes and villains on a grand scale. And as metzen is a self confessed comic book fan, there is nothing you can say about his characters that in this genre he created that is wrong.

None of you are writers or developers, who are you to criticize the ones who wrote this lore?

Metzen is defensive of Thrall, so your saying a creator of a fictional character can't defend his characters in an argument or anyone speaking against said character?

You know i might go overboard to you, but at least I understand where someone like metzen comes from with his characters. As a long time comic book fan, I see how he writes the lore characters in a comic book fashion, its recognizable, heroes and villains on a grand scale. And as metzen is a self confessed comic book fan, there is nothing you can say about his characters that in this genre he created that is wrong.

None of you are writers or developers, who are you to criticize the ones who wrote this lore?

I'm a writer.

I've written 2 books (Unpublished, just wrote them for fun)

I've written 36 short stories.

And over 70 Poems.

I've been doing it since I was 15.

I understand your stand on this perfectly, but you're also being way too passionate about it.

The difference between you and Metzen is this: He's a professional writer who doesn't let emotion get in the way of his Judgment. It's his personal character, so of course he defends him, but he does it logically and professional.

You're older than me, but you let passion and emotion block your vision of logic and reasoning when it comes to Orcs, Garrosh, and/or Thrall. Due to that reason, these people are offended because you do not listen to them.

I'm defensive of the characters I write about, of course, but if someone has a critique, or doesn't agree with me, I'm fine with that. I'm glad to listen to their points and not just say "NOPE. I'M RIGHT AND HERE'S WHY: FUCK YOU" :X

I understand your stand on this perfectly, but you're also being way too passionate about it.

The difference between you and Metzen is this: He's a professional writer who doesn't let emotion get in the way of his Judgment. It's his personal character, so of course he defends him, but he does it logically and professional.

You're older than me, but you let passion and emotion block your vision of logic and reasoning when it comes to Orcs, Garrosh, and/or Thrall. Due to that reason, these people are offended because you do not listen to them.

I'm defensive of the characters I write about, of course, but if someone has a critique, or doesn't agree with me, I'm fine with that. I'm glad to listen to their points and not just say "NOPE. I'M RIGHT AND HERE'S WHY: FUCK YOU" :X

And thats why I admire metzens professionalism in this, because despite having a handful of negative posters, he still keeps his characters strong.. at least I hope he does and does so with his own integrity, instead of trying to appeal to such posters.

I mean look what happened as a result of certain choices, Thrall, steadfast leader of the horde, gets criticized by posters for being an inactive warchief, despite the fact he was really the most active leader in wow since the launch up to wrath. but that wasn't good enough for the general public, they kept saying he should do more. And do they worked the story so he would do something amazing and save azeroth, and now, the same negative community he flamed him before now come on mass because of him doing something.

It would be like reading a comic book series and them taking a character in one direction, only to have fans dictate how a character should be taken and the writers trying to do that just to appease them, which never makes them happy anyway.

You've not had your books published dude, but if you did and the general public ripped into them, I dare say it would make you feel bad. Would you try to alter those characters to try and appeal to those who hated it?