Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows - Linux

This is a discussion on Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows - Linux ; Max Wachtel wrote:
> We have done a lot of studies on the return rates and haven't really
> talked about it much until now. Our internal research has shown that
> the return of netbooks is higher than regular ...

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

Max Wachtel wrote:
> We have done a lot of studies on the return rates and haven't really
> talked about it much until now. Our internal research has shown that
> the return of netbooks is higher than regular notebooks, but the main
> cause of that is Linux. People would love to pay $299 or $399 but
> they don't know what they get until they open the box. They start
> playing around with Linux and start realizing that it's not what they
> are used to. They don't want to spend time to learn it so they bring
> it back to the store. The return rate is at least four times higher
> for Linux netbooks than Windows XP netbooks."
>
> -Andy Tung MSI's
> U.S.Sales Director

I believe "4X" sounds a bit low. I would think more than half are being
returned.

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

After takin' a swig o' grog, chrisv belched out
this bit o' wisdom:
> Max Wachtel wrote:
>> We have done a lot of studies on the return rates and haven't really
>> talked about it much until now. Our internal research has shown that
>> the return of netbooks is higher than regular notebooks, but the main
>> cause of that is Linux. People would love to pay $299 or $399 but
>> they don't know what they get until they open the box. They start
>> playing around with Linux and start realizing that it's not what they
>> are used to. They don't want to spend time to learn it so they bring
>> it back to the store. The return rate is at least four times higher
>> for Linux netbooks than Windows XP netbooks."
>>
>> -Andy Tung MSI's
>> U.S.Sales Director
>
> I believe "4X" sounds a bit low. I would think more than half are being
> returned.

You /would/ think, if you /could/ think.

You should return your nym back to the real chrisv.

--
Did you ever walk into a room and forget why you walked in? I think
that's how dogs spend their lives.
-- Sue Murphy

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, chrisv belched out
> this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> Max Wachtel wrote:
>>> We have done a lot of studies on the return rates and haven't really
>>> talked about it much until now. Our internal research has shown that
>>> the return of netbooks is higher than regular notebooks, but the
>>> main cause of that is Linux. People would love to pay $299 or $399
>>> but they don't know what they get until they open the box. They
>>> start playing around with Linux and start realizing that it's not
>>> what they are used to. They don't want to spend time to learn it so
>>> they bring it back to the store. The return rate is at least four
>>> times higher for Linux netbooks than Windows XP netbooks."
>>>
>>> -Andy Tung MSI's
>>> U.S.Sales Director
>>
>> I believe "4X" sounds a bit low. I would think more than half are
>> being returned.
>
> You /would/ think, if you /could/ think.
>
> You should return your nym back to the real chrisv.

I have a question, why are you spelling 'arsehole' as 'Ahlstrom'?

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

Chris Ahlstrom writes:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, chrisv belched out
> this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> Max Wachtel wrote:
>>> We have done a lot of studies on the return rates and haven't really
>>> talked about it much until now. Our internal research has shown that
>>> the return of netbooks is higher than regular notebooks, but the main
>>> cause of that is Linux. People would love to pay $299 or $399 but
>>> they don't know what they get until they open the box. They start
>>> playing around with Linux and start realizing that it's not what they
>>> are used to. They don't want to spend time to learn it so they bring
>>> it back to the store. The return rate is at least four times higher
>>> for Linux netbooks than Windows XP netbooks."
>>>
>>> -Andy Tung MSI's
>>> U.S.Sales Director
>>
>> I believe "4X" sounds a bit low. I would think more than half are being
>> returned.
>
> You /would/ think, if you /could/ think.
>
> You should return your nym back to the real chrisv.

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

chrisv writes:
> some idiot forging chrisv wrote:
>
>>I have a question, why are you spelling 'arsehole' as 'Ahlstrom'?
>
> Where is "Hadron" to attack this forger on my behalf?

Cant say I even noticed the forger. I read it, and moved on. I guess it
wasn't as useless as most of your posts so should have noticed. Having
said that I agree with it. I argue the man, not the team and considered
that you might have got bored with Liarmutt's sycophantic posturing too.

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

Cross-post snipped, followups set

After takin' a swig o' grog, chrisv belched out
this bit o' wisdom:
> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>> You should return your nym back to the real chrisv.
>
> I have a question, why are you spelling 'arsehole' as 'Ahlstrom'?

Huh? You're the only one that used that word.

--
There are some micro-organisms that exhibit characteristics of both plants
and animals. When exposed to light they undergo photosynthesis; and when
the lights go out, they turn into animals. But then again, don't we all?

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

After takin' a swig o' grog, chrisv belched out
this bit o' wisdom:
> some idiot forging chrisv wrote:
>
>>I have a question, why are you spelling 'arsehole' as 'Ahlstrom'?
>
> Where is "Hadron" to attack this forger on my behalf?

Well, your name isn't Erik Funkenbush, Moshe Goldfarb, or DFS.

You don't have any "troll cred" to Hadron.

--
If you knew what to say next, would you say it?

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

"chrisv" wrote in message
news:0335b9b4$0$18598$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Max Wachtel wrote:
>> We have done a lot of studies on the return rates and haven't really
>> talked about it much until now. Our internal research has shown that
>> the return of netbooks is higher than regular notebooks, but the main
>> cause of that is Linux. People would love to pay $299 or $399 but
>> they don't know what they get until they open the box. They start
>> playing around with Linux and start realizing that it's not what they
>> are used to. They don't want to spend time to learn it so they bring
>> it back to the store. The return rate is at least four times higher
>> for Linux netbooks than Windows XP netbooks."
>>
>> -Andy Tung MSI's
>> U.S.Sales Director
>
> I believe "4X" sounds a bit low. I would think more than half are being
> returned.
>
That could be the same thing, of course. If 1% of the XP units were being
returned and Linux units were 8% or so of total sales, 4 times the XP number
would be half of the Linux units.

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

amicus_curious wrote:
> "chrisv" wrote in message
> news:0335b9b4$0$18598$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>> Max Wachtel wrote:
>>> We have done a lot of studies on the return rates and haven't really
>>> talked about it much until now. Our internal research has shown that
>>> the return of netbooks is higher than regular notebooks, but the
>>> main cause of that is Linux. People would love to pay $299 or $399
>>> but they don't know what they get until they open the box. They
>>> start playing around with Linux and start realizing that it's not
>>> what they are used to. They don't want to spend time to learn it so
>>> they bring it back to the store. The return rate is at least four
>>> times higher for Linux netbooks than Windows XP netbooks."
>>>
>>> -Andy Tung MSI's
>>> U.S.Sales Director
>>
>> I believe "4X" sounds a bit low. I would think more than half are
>> being returned.
>>
> That could be the same thing, of course. If 1% of the XP units were
> being returned and Linux units were 8% or so of total sales, 4 times
> the XP number would be half of the Linux units.

Do you work in Obama's "spin" room?

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

amicus_curious wrote:
> "chrisv" wrote in message
>> I believe "4X" sounds a bit low. I would think more than half are being
>> returned.
>>
> That could be the same thing, of course. If 1% of the XP units were being
> returned and Linux units were 8% or so of total sales, 4 times the XP number
> would be half of the Linux units.

Absolutely - I can see that you are something of a mathematician

On the other hand though, if Linux sales were 80% of total units, and 1% of
each were being returned, there would still be 4X as many Linux units
returned as XP units.
Alternatively, if one million of each were sold, and one XP and 4 Linux
returned, that would still be 4X as many.
All of which just goes to show that that we don't have enough data to compute
an answer....

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

On 2008-10-07, relic wrote:
> amicus_curious wrote:
>> "chrisv" wrote in message
>> news:0335b9b4$0$18598$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>>> Max Wachtel wrote:
>>>> We have done a lot of studies on the return rates and haven't really
>>>> talked about it much until now. Our internal research has shown that
>>>> the return of netbooks is higher than regular notebooks, but the
>>>> main cause of that is Linux. People would love to pay $299 or $399
>>>> but they don't know what they get until they open the box. They
>>>> start playing around with Linux and start realizing that it's not
>>>> what they are used to. They don't want to spend time to learn it so
>>>> they bring it back to the store. The return rate is at least four
>>>> times higher for Linux netbooks than Windows XP netbooks."
>>>>
>>>> -Andy Tung MSI's
>>>> U.S.Sales Director
>>>
>>> I believe "4X" sounds a bit low. I would think more than half are
>>> being returned.
>>>
>> That could be the same thing, of course. If 1% of the XP units were
>> being returned and Linux units were 8% or so of total sales, 4 times
>> the XP number would be half of the Linux units.
>
> Do you work in Obama's "spin" room?

Obama doesn't need a "spin" room anymore.

He has Palin.

...like the Alaska->Ohio connection.

We Buckeyes like to call it Canada.

--
How did irc manage to get so pretentious about civility |||
of discourse when it doesn't even allow for the free and / | \
open exchange of ideas?

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

On Oct 7, 5:09 am, "chrisv" wrote:
> Max Wachtel wrote:
> > We have done a lot of studies on the return rates and haven't really
> > talked about it much until now. Our internal research has shown that
> > the return of netbooks is higher than regular notebooks, but the main
> > cause of that is Linux. People would love to pay $299 or $399 but
> > they don't know what they get until they open the box. They start
> > playing around with Linux and start realizing that it's not what they
> > are used to. They don't want to spend time to learn it so they bring
> > it back to the store. The return rate is at least four times higher
> > for Linux netbooks than Windows XP netbooks."
>
> > -Andy Tung MSI's
> > U.S.Sales Director
>
> I believe "4X" sounds a bit low. I would think more than half are being
> returned.

Interesting, MSI isn't one of the major Netbook vendors, and doesn't
put their products on the retail sales floor. Acer and Asus do put
their Linux netbooks on display at many strategic locations including
major retailers, airport stores, and "duty free" stores. They are
also on display at several large retailers like Circuit City, so that
customers get a very clear understanding of exactly what they do and
don't get. In many cases, the sales people even "undersell" the Linux
systems, warning the customer that although it does come with Open
Office, it's not exactly the same as Microsoft Office. But they have
to be equally clear about the stripped down version of office included
with the XP version, even though the customer has to pay as much as
50% more for the hardware/software configuration required for the XP
solution.

ASUS and ACER are both reporting that sales rates on their Linux
versions are 60% Linux and 40% Windows, and the trend seems to be
moving more and more toward Linux. Part of the reason for this is
that the netbooks are typically purchased as "second computers" that
can be taken on the road and used in situations that aren't as
practical for traditional laptops. If you have a laptop with a 17
inch screen you probably won't be able to type on it if you are in a
coach seat on an airplane. But if you have the tiny little Linux
netbook, that can run using only flash storage, you can run the little
baby PC for about 3 hours on the main battery, or use an external
"booster" battery that can keep you running through transcontinental
or transatlantic flights.

In this case, since the Linux PC isn't replacing the Windows PC, there
isn't the critical need to have Windows on that PC.

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

bbgruff wrote:
> amicus_curious wrote:
>> "chrisv" wrote in message
>
>>> I believe "4X" sounds a bit low. I would think more than half are
>>> being returned.
>>>
>> That could be the same thing, of course. If 1% of the XP units were
>> being returned and Linux units were 8% or so of total sales, 4 times
>> the XP number would be half of the Linux units.
>
> Absolutely - I can see that you are something of a mathematician
>
> On the other hand though, if Linux sales were 80% of total units, and
> 1% of each were being returned, there would still be 4X as many Linux
> units returned as XP units.
> Alternatively, if one million of each were sold, and one XP and 4
> Linux returned, that would still be 4X as many.
> All of which just goes to show that that we don't have enough data to
> compute an answer....

The number of units returned is irrelevant, and in fact knowing it would
likely lead to you making the type of innumerate statements you made the
last time you tried to "analyze" some Linux data.

Whether it's 4 or 400,000, the fact that Linux systems are returned at least
4x as often as XP systems is plenty enough to indict the OSS crapware.

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 21:03:43 -0400, DFS wrote:
> bbgruff wrote:
>> amicus_curious wrote:
>>> "chrisv" wrote in message
>>
>>>> I believe "4X" sounds a bit low. I would think more than half are
>>>> being returned.
>>>>
>>> That could be the same thing, of course. If 1% of the XP units were
>>> being returned and Linux units were 8% or so of total sales, 4 times
>>> the XP number would be half of the Linux units.
>>
>> Absolutely - I can see that you are something of a mathematician
>>
>> On the other hand though, if Linux sales were 80% of total units, and
>> 1% of each were being returned, there would still be 4X as many Linux
>> units returned as XP units.
>> Alternatively, if one million of each were sold, and one XP and 4
>> Linux returned, that would still be 4X as many.
>> All of which just goes to show that that we don't have enough data to
>> compute an answer....
>
>
> The number of units returned is irrelevant, and in fact knowing it would
> likely lead to you making the type of innumerate statements you made the
> last time you tried to "analyze" some Linux data.
>
> Whether it's 4 or 400,000, the fact that Linux systems are returned at least
> 4x as often as XP systems is plenty enough to indict the OSS crapware.

See them scramble.
They will try and dodge the point every single time.

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

On 2008-10-08, DFS wrote:
> bbgruff wrote:
>> amicus_curious wrote:
>>> "chrisv" wrote in message
>>
>>>> I believe "4X" sounds a bit low. I would think more than half are
>>>> being returned.
>>>>
>>> That could be the same thing, of course. If 1% of the XP units were
>>> being returned and Linux units were 8% or so of total sales, 4 times
>>> the XP number would be half of the Linux units.
>>
>> Absolutely - I can see that you are something of a mathematician
>>
>> On the other hand though, if Linux sales were 80% of total units, and
>> 1% of each were being returned, there would still be 4X as many Linux
>> units returned as XP units.
>> Alternatively, if one million of each were sold, and one XP and 4
>> Linux returned, that would still be 4X as many.
>> All of which just goes to show that that we don't have enough data to
>> compute an answer....
>
>
> The number of units returned is irrelevant, and in fact knowing it would
> likely lead to you making the type of innumerate statements you made the
> last time you tried to "analyze" some Linux data.
>
> Whether it's 4 or 400,000, the fact that Linux systems are returned at least
> 4x as often as XP systems is plenty enough to indict the OSS crapware.

Not at all...

Linux is possibly unexpected.

When was the last time you could get something other than Windows on
a PC at a retail establishment? Late 80's perhaps? Mebbe the early 90's.

People aren't just used to the idea that a PC might run something
else. Apple's are a bit more obvious in this regard. It's hard to miss
that logo and not make the connection.

Re: Linux Return Rate 4X More Than Windows

"JEDIDIAH" wrote in message
news:slrngeo92b.p90.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>
> Not at all...
>
> Linux is possibly unexpected.
>
> When was the last time you could get something other than Windows on
> a PC at a retail establishment? Late 80's perhaps? Mebbe the early 90's.
>
> People aren't just used to the idea that a PC might run something
> else. Apple's are a bit more obvious in this regard. It's hard to miss
> that logo and not make the connection.
>
I think that is exactly the case. I would expect that anyone who used the
netbook specifically for web access only would not have any problems. If
they expect to do other things, though, lack of compatibility with their
desktop/laptop and with their general experience using office applications
would cause them to be dissatisfied. Doubtless there are some buyers who
are expecting some kind of miniature replica of their standard computers and
are even more disappointed in what they get, particularly if it is an
on-line purchase and they don't see what a minimal system it is before it is
delivered.