That was a pretty good read- thanks for the link. The only problem I have with all of these changes is- what makes the Xbox One different than an upgraded (graphics wise) 360? It's the same problem I have with the PS4. They are just more powerful systems as the previous. I want the innovation and features that are special for a new system. There are still plenty with the Xbox One, but they are getting less and less, and I'm not sure how the developers will be "enticed" to use them if they are not necessary and they are doing cross-platform games.

~mrmiller

_________________We are a brotherhood bound by honor, our strength is in our numbers, we are S7!*General Disclaimer- I can't type or spellClan Founder

S7 mrmiller wrote:That was a pretty good read- thanks for the link. The only problem I have with all of these changes is- what makes the Xbox One different than an upgraded (graphics wise) 360? It's the same problem I have with the PS4. They are just more powerful systems as the previous. I want the innovation and features that are special for a new system. There are still plenty with the Xbox One, but they are getting less and less, and I'm not sure how the developers will be "enticed" to use them if they are not necessary and they are doing cross-platform games.

~mrmiller

I agree 100%. Some of the back tracking has been ok, but they need to stop at some point. Like you said, all it's turning out to be is a 360 with better graphics. In and of itself that's not a terrible thing, but it seems to me they are trying to be a MS version of the PS4, which is NOT what I want it to be. If I wanted a PS4 I'd buy one. There are still enough differences to matter, but they keep taking away things that separated them from Sony because the "internet" is upset.

I guess the main thing that gets to me is that some of the things that made me excited about the XB1 being different are now being taken away. I was looking forward to seeing how it would all go down with such a large difference between the consoles. Now not so much.

I still think the biggest difference between the two will be the online experience. The XB1 still have the PS4 beat by a huge marging on that one IMO. Hopefully that won't change (I don't see how that would).

We don't even really know what the online experience is on the XB1 or the PS4 yet. Are you basing this more from Xbox 360 vs PS3? I've been dissapointed with the big change that microsoft made to set itself apart from PS4, which is the whole 'no used games' fiasco that had trolls everywhere trolling. Now for the Kinect not being needed, I feel like I'm paying $100 for something that's optional that I probably won't be using a ton. Maybe that was to give the people who were afraid that Microsoft was watching them some comfort? IDK. Microsoft needs to get their story straight because they've been all over the place ever since E3.

_________________Current PS4 Game(s): The Last of Us RMCurrent 3DS Game(s): Pokemon Sun

Another reason not to buy a xb1 at launch. If it doesn't have to have a kinect then they might put out one that doesnt come with one and it would be cheaper. MS is stripping away stuff that makes it different which blows imo which I think is a bad move if the 2 systems are gonna be the same then MS isn't going to convert too many ps4 people, why would current ps3 owners change, all their friends are on psn and no big feature to sway them unless they're really into TV I'll be getting the titan fall xb1 edition that will be gray and have mech sh1t all over it

That's the same thing I feel about the Kinect. Now if it is truly optional, why would a multi-platform developer sink much into anything Kinect specific, when that can make a vanilla game that plays exactly the same on both the PS4 and the One? I like the TV stuff Xbox is doing, and that's a main reason for me getting one along with the friends list and controller. Still, at the start I couldn't help but feel the PS4 was just a suped-up PS3, and the Xbox One was a signifant upgrade from the 360 with many more features- now it's not so much. I don't care the price point- why get in a rush to spend any signafant amount of money if it's just for some upgraded graphics as most of the early games will be for both generations of systems?

~mrmiller

_________________We are a brotherhood bound by honor, our strength is in our numbers, we are S7!*General Disclaimer- I can't type or spellClan Founder

The problem is that the people that are badmouthing this whole thing aren't getting an Xbox One anyways.

So far I've still seen nothing but hate and vitriol, even after this. It's a bunch of "Now take out the Kinect and sell it at $349" and "Now it's just a PS4 with slower hardware for $100 more". There will always be an excuse for people to not get the XB1. That's why all this backtracking is bugging me. They are catering to the people that aren't going to get the XB1 regardless of what they do, short of getting rid of the Kinect completely and charging less than the PS4.

OneBadHuskerFan wrote:The problem is that the people that are badmouthing this whole thing aren't getting an Xbox One anyways.

So far I've still seen nothing but hate and vitriol, even after this. It's a bunch of "Now take out the Kinect and sell it at $349" and "Now it's just a PS4 with slower hardware for $100 more". There will always be an excuse for people to not get the XB1. That's why all this backtracking is bugging me. They are catering to the people that aren't going to get the XB1 regardless of what they do, short of getting rid of the Kinect completely and charging less than the PS4.

This. The people who complain and continue to complain no matter what Microsoft feeds them are not going to be buying the Xbox One. I do like how the system will come with a headset now, but that's just about the only change they've made that I like. All these 'changed policies' and whatnot is ruining Microsoft's credibility. Pesonally, I'm not as excited to be getting the XB1 now that they keep changing it up. It sort of feels like I'll have no idea what I'll truely be getting from the system until 'Day One' arrives.

_________________Current PS4 Game(s): The Last of Us RMCurrent 3DS Game(s): Pokemon Sun

The author of that article lost 100% credibility when he listed Cloud gaming as something he doesn't see how it would make gaming better. He clearly hasn't been keeping up with the news or technology. Cloud Computing is the future, and the XBO has a very impressive looking cloud environment.

I was a Sony guy but now I'm a Xbox guy And with that said I have still to find anyone to make a good argument for cloud computing at all! It may sound nice but I need an example The Forza five drivatar doesn't even Appeal to me in the least. The cloud just seems like another gimmick to me just like the kinect for Xbox and move for PS3

Joe Rogan wrote:I was a Sony guy but now I'm a Xbox guy And with that said I have still to find anyone to make a good argument for cloud computing at all! It may sound nice but I need an example The Forza five drivatar doesn't even Appeal to me in the least. The cloud just seems like another gimmick to me just like the kinect for Xbox and move for PS3

Well just as a starter how about dedicates servers for CoD on the Xbox One? I haven't heard anything from Sony regarding ANYTHING about supporting dedicated servers. I see that as a very large first step.

Joe Rogan wrote:I was a Sony guy but now I'm a Xbox guy And with that said I have still to find anyone to make a good argument for cloud computing at all! It may sound nice but I need an example The Forza five drivatar doesn't even Appeal to me in the least. The cloud just seems like another gimmick to me just like the kinect for Xbox and move for PS3

There are a TON of applications of it. I work on networks and with servers all day, just for reference.

The primary thing I'm excited about with the Xbox Cloud:

Offloading non-critical processes to the cloud. Players/weapons/etc will still be rendered on your machine, however things like extended draw distances, detailed graphical processes (water animations, etc) and even AI can be processed on the cloud. How does this effect you? Your Xbox just got WAY more powerful. Those 'little' effects take up a lot of power from the machine, using the cloud to render them will make a massive difference. It'll also make huge amounts of players possible where before the console could only handle so many.

There are other things as well, but this is something EVERYONE should be excited about. If PS4 doesn't implement this they'll be a ways behind on their games. The 2 consoles (ignoring fan bois) are actually extremely close in performance throughput. The XBO having a massive virtual resource that can handle processing tasks will give them a very significant edge in detail they can use, features they can implement, and general latency of users.

The PS4 has both Cloud Computing and Cloud Gaming ( < something the XB1 does not) and always has. It's just not as full force as M$ right now but they are actually adding more cloud computing as we speak. M$ has spent a sh1t ton of $$$ on cloud computing so they will probably always be a little ahead of Sony in this respect but the functionality is there on both systems.

I also think that Cloud Gaming is being overlooked by most people. Cloud gaming will allow for the system to play well beyond the capabilities of the hardware. Not to mention access to older games from the PS1, PS2 and PS3 eras. A sort of backwards compatibility.

_________________"Console A sucks! Console B is way better and never has problems! I don't know how to build a cheap PC that out performs both! Rabble rabble!!"

S7 Interseptor wrote:The PS4 has both Cloud Computing and Cloud Gaming ( < something the XB1 does not) and always has. It's just not as full force as M$ right now but they are actually adding more cloud computing as we speak. M$ has spent a sh1t ton of $$$ on cloud computing so they will probably always be a little ahead of Sony in this respect but the functionality is there on both systems.

I also think that Cloud Gaming is being overlooked by most people. Cloud gaming will allow for the system to play well beyond the capabilities of the hardware. Not to mention access to older games from the PS1, PS2 and PS3 eras. A sort of backwards compatibility.

Regarding the cloud gaming I guess to each their own. Having Gaikai is cool and all for those that will use it but not having the ability to stream old console games has zero effect on me. If I want backwards compatibility (which I can't see me wanting) I'll still have my Xbox 360. But yes, it is a feature that MS won't have so it's better than not having it I suppose.

I think the gap in "cloud computing" is a large one and will only get larger as even Mark Cerny from Sony has said he doesn't believe in cloud computing beyond the normal matchmaking and things that are already being currently done. I think MS has a vision here, and while I'm not versed enough to tell you what that vision is or how it will be implemented, I think in the end MS will take the cake as far as all of this "cloud computing" stuff. I readily admit I'm just going on faith on this one. Sony just seems to want no part of it...at least until they are forced to do so.

Hell, the Titanfall devs have already stated how the "cloud" has been really cool to work with and how some of the AI can be offloaded and not use up precious console resources. I'm really looking forward to seeing what MS can do, even if it's little improvements here and there. It all matters.

Yeah, but the Titanfall developers are making the same game for PC too. I think all the hype they are giving the cloud is just BS. I do admit that cloud computing could be a game changer down the road but it's not going to make any difference in the first round of games. Hell, even the current gen is capable of running some of these "next gen" titles.

I have said all along that the best games to make use of the "cloud" for M$ are their 1st party exclusive games. Any multi-system game is just going to make their game to work best on all system and not bother with figuring out how to make one better by using the cloud. Lowest common denominator.

@Atrum, you were talking about the DL and Play functionality, not Cloud Gaming. Cloud Gaming is offloading 100% for the computing to the cloud and playing a game hosted on a powerful computer somewhere on the magical cloud.

The DL and Play functionality is NOT cloud gaming. It is completely separate technology that allows you to play the game while the rest of the game is DL'd in the background. And I am not sure about your connection but for me 6gb takes a few hours to DL. That is a pretty common size for most games. Being able to DL for a few minutes and start playing is HUGE for me or anyone looking to go fully digital in the next gen.

_________________"Console A sucks! Console B is way better and never has problems! I don't know how to build a cheap PC that out performs both! Rabble rabble!!"

S7 Interseptor wrote:@Atrum, you were talking about the DL and Play functionality, not Cloud Gaming. Cloud Gaming is offloading 100% for the computing to the cloud and playing a game hosted on a powerful computer somewhere on the magical cloud.

The DL and Play functionality is NOT cloud gaming. It is completely separate technology that allows you to play the game while the rest of the game is DL'd in the background. And I am not sure about your connection but for me 6gb takes a few hours to DL. That is a pretty common size for most games. Being able to DL for a few minutes and start playing is HUGE for me or anyone looking to go fully digital in the next gen.

Actually it's the same technology. Just a different implementation. And DL times aren't a big deal for me.

As for the 'Cloud Gaming' in the sense that Sony is using it, it's nothing impressive. Look at OnLive, that's been using cloud gaming exclusively for years now and no one is impressed. Sony using the same thing for old games isn't anything impressive. Is it cool to be able to play old games? Definitely. I think it's a very smart way to get around system issues with backwards compatibility.

Playing digital games faster is always a good thing. So for you, instead of minutes, you could be playing in seconds. I also think it is a big step in making full digital a reality. The easier you make it to DL and play a game, the more likely people are to support it. This is part of how I think the PS4 is actually supporting full digital better than the XB1.

You can also play any of your digital games at your friends house with the PS4 as well. Technically, you can do this now with the PS3 and 360 too fyi. But what is stopping you? Perhaps several hours of DL to the new console? Or minutes if you are Atrum with a T1 connection? With the PS4, you can be up an running, playing co-op in minutes.

EDIT: Sorry we seemed to have hi-jacked the thread.

_________________"Console A sucks! Console B is way better and never has problems! I don't know how to build a cheap PC that out performs both! Rabble rabble!!"

It's definitely a neat technology. I'm just so used to frequent updates on my PC games that I get home from work, run any downloads I need, then by the time I can actually game (hours later) everything is ready to go.

Very good point on the friends house thing. That will be pretty critical in me going fully digital since I still LAN fairly often.