Yes, as long as he is not doing so at the expense of other players' enjoyment.

Yes of course he does. He also has equal responsibility

It sounds to me like you are trying to warp your argument into a justification for griefing. No one is obligated to play within any norm. You are, however, obligated to play within the rules. Bullying other players (which is exactly what you are describing) for your own amusement is not ok and not cool. I would be highly amused if your account got banned permanently for being such a jerk.

All your points were beautifully put. I did take the side of the devil on this one, for discussion purposes, but no again I do not do this, or support it. Would not risk a ban, i love my account, i play with my gf, too much time and effort/ fun times to risk it imho.

You seem slightly taken aback, so let me break it down for you iadamson. As it has already been pointed out, your original post looked more like you were scouting for Youtube video ideas, not trying to provoke an intense and thoughtful discussion about community interaction, so don't be surprised if people react strongly to your original post, which was either worded wrongly or misleading.

Second of all, you're talking about purposefully ruining the gaming experience of 4 other players for 'lols', whether it's trolling, harassment etc doesn't really matter. You posted this suggestion on a WoW forum. We all play this game, and have probably had our time wasted by idiots who think this sort of behaviour is funny. Maybe it is for you, but I can assure you that nobody else does.

This isn't much of a gray area, there isn't much discussion to be had. At best, this is morally wrong, at worst, it's griefing.

You seem slightly taken aback, so let me break it down for you iadamson. As it has already been pointed out, your original post looked more like you were scouting for Youtube video ideas, not trying to provoke an intense and thoughtful discussion about community interaction, so don't be surprised if people react strongly to your original post, which was either worded wrongly or misleading.

Second of all, you're talking about purposefully ruining the gaming experience of 4 other players for 'lols', whether it's trolling, harassment etc doesn't really matter. You posted this suggestion on a WoW forum. We all play this game, and have probably had our time wasted by idiots who think this sort of behaviour is funny. Maybe it is for you, but I can assure you that nobody else does.

This isn't much of a gray area, there isn't much discussion to be had. At best, this is morally wrong, at worst, it's griefing.

If you would have came into this thread much earlier there wouldn't have been much else to discuss.
I choose the OP to be a certain way, for a reason, some people like yourself replied within reason, and proper.
I wasn't surprised if people came off accusing, but I mean maybe we should all learn not to presume or assume so much.

Your points made here I feel are shared by everyone, but no one could articulate it as professionally as you. This statement by you is pretty much what I was looking for. It's the nail in the coffin if you will. That sets aside all points someone advocating for this type of play could make. You have proven beyond a reasonable doubt, that this type of play is not acceptable. Even though that was clear from the beginning. You were able to put it together best without flaming or just saying "those ppl are douchebags".

I like how you brought up morals, but that's a whole other discussion topic!
which is also a really good one, sometimes it can get rather philosophical, then it kinda begins to get lame.
Rather endless cycle of debate.

It's interesting to think outside the box, into the minds of people who just want to watch the world burn, dark knight style.

Lol, something as stupid and lame and trolling world of warcraft dungeons is hardly worthy of being a man who "wants to watch the world burn". More like some miserable nerd that gets off on annoying other people to feel some joy.

Perfect example of why "community" forums are poisonous to the health of a development team. These developers are wasting hundreds of hours trying to stem the tide of incessant bitchery that would never, ever abate so long as these entitled, unfortunate human beings don't get their way.

Lol, something as stupid and lame and trolling world of warcraft dungeons is hardly worthy of being a man who "wants to watch the world burn". More like some miserable nerd that gets off on annoying other people to feel some joy.

Yeah, it does, but the topic in this thread evolved over time.

It kinda became about social interactions over the internet/ world of warcraft. How to make points, remember not to presume etc.

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 08:38 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Blarglord69

If i knew some one that did stuff like this id come to their house and do terrible things to their horse

"C. Rules Related to Game Play. Game play is what World of Warcraft is all about, and Blizzard strictly enforces the rules that govern game play. Blizzard considers most conduct to be part of the Game, and not harassment, so player-killing the enemies of your race and/or alliance, including gravestone and/or corpse camping, is considered a part of the Game. Because the Game is a "player vs. player" game, you should always remember to protect yourself in areas where the members of hostile races can attack you, rather than contacting Blizzard's in-game customer service representatives for help when you have been killed by an enemy of your race. Nonetheless, certain acts go beyond what is "fair" and are considered serious violations of these Terms of Use. Those acts include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:

(i) Using or exploiting errors in design, features which have not been documented, and/or "program bugs" to gain access that is otherwise not available, or to obtain a competitive advantage over other players;

(ii) Conduct prohibited by the EULA or elsewhere in these Terms of Use; and

(iii) Anything that Blizzard considers contrary to the "essence" of the Game.

"
That third provision is what would get you a ban eventually. They basically make have the right to decide what is good and bad in terms of the game and could easily say the person is acting against essence of the game. You aren't playing it anymore in the way they envisioned which lets them ban you. So if people report the griefer, then they'll be dealt with eventually.

It kinda became about social interactions over the internet/ world of warcraft. How to make points, remember not to presume etc.

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 08:38 AM ----------

hunt down that guy in the first reply. :P

Trolling in a video game is in another universe from wanting to watch the world burn. That's just a phrase people like to connect with themselves because they think it sounds cool. Just like in real life, there is always a deeper reason for why people like causing other people headaches.

Perfect example of why "community" forums are poisonous to the health of a development team. These developers are wasting hundreds of hours trying to stem the tide of incessant bitchery that would never, ever abate so long as these entitled, unfortunate human beings don't get their way.

"C. Rules Related to Game Play. Game play is what World of Warcraft is all about, and Blizzard strictly enforces the rules that govern game play. Blizzard considers most conduct to be part of the Game, and not harassment, so player-killing the enemies of your race and/or alliance, including gravestone and/or corpse camping, is considered a part of the Game. Because the Game is a "player vs. player" game, you should always remember to protect yourself in areas where the members of hostile races can attack you, rather than contacting Blizzard's in-game customer service representatives for help when you have been killed by an enemy of your race. Nonetheless, certain acts go beyond what is "fair" and are considered serious violations of these Terms of Use. Those acts include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:

(i) Using or exploiting errors in design, features which have not been documented, and/or "program bugs" to gain access that is otherwise not available, or to obtain a competitive advantage over other players;

(ii) Conduct prohibited by the EULA or elsewhere in these Terms of Use; and

(iii) Anything that Blizzard considers contrary to the "essence" of the Game.

"
That third provision is what would get you a ban eventually. They basically make have the right to decide what is good and bad in terms of the game and could easily say the person is acting against essence of the game. You aren't playing it anymore in the way they envisioned which lets them ban you. So if people report the griefer, then they'll be dealt with eventually.

Glad you posted this. Anyone care to connect the dotes were applicable? :P
Essence of the game is a pretty blanket term, that covers a wide array of things.
We are safe from asshole healers.

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 08:48 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Last Starfighter

Trolling in a video game is in another universe from wanting to watch the world burn. That's just a phrase people like to connect with themselves because they think it sounds cool. Just like in real life, there is always a deeper reason for why people like causing other people headaches.

I think it varies person to person, can't really say all of them are the same. I get what you're sayin though.

I think it has some similarities to ganking and camping lowbies for a while.

Perhaps boredom or simply not caring are factors.

Also the person could have under lying personality disorders irl, which they may convey into video games, a need for control, or something. I like to think the worlds a nicer place then that. I give them the benefit of the doubt.

Actually to go to the extent of making videos is probably a little more messed up idk, im not a doctor.