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Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

Originally Posted by The Excellector

This is where you have to trust your board. It might not look like a clear cut spot for Austin now. However, we don't fully know how Caldwell will adapt his system to Joe Flacco. Anquan Boldin is 33. We don't know if he or Jones will be back. Doss is a decent prospect, as is Deonte Thompson.

If there is an injury, he can fill in multiple roles: Returner, RB, Slot. You might even be able to slip him outside from time to time.

No doubt he can fill in a lot of spots, and therefore would have a lot of value for that. And no doubt he is explosive.

The issue is things looks good/bad on paper, but we really have no clue what any of these teams, including our own, think about certain players.

On paper Austin looks like a perfect replacement for Welker. But who knows if the Patriots share that opinion.

Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

To me Deonte Thompson is a cheaper Jacoby Jones. Yes we will lose that elite kick returner and I will be the first to identify him as one of our most valuable players, but it just isn't worth it to pay him that much. Thompson has a lot of upside and in the words of Oz...Next man up!

Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

So let's backup a bit here...this is a simple difference of opinion. You obviously really like Jones. I like him as I think he is an NFL player, but obvioulsy not to the extent that you do. I made a statement of where I think he belongs in regards to the rest of the Alabama OL...I apologize if I didn't put IMHO in there. But I definately feel my opinion has a lot of merit, and even if you and others don't agree (which we all have our right to...and all of us are giving just that...opinions), I don't think in any way was my statement "boarderline ridiculous".

Agree to disagree. I do apologize for the "ridiculous" comment, that was an overreaction and in retrospect it's not ridiculous at all, just a mere difference of opinion as we both acknowledge.

There's no question that Barrett Jones is not a supremely impressive physical specimen, but the only reason why I'm really beating his drum as much as I am is because of how technically sound he is. Most of the college players you listed who busted in the NFL didn't make it precisely because they had no technical acumen. Regardless of rankings on which the issues are too fuzzy to ever have definitive agreement, whoever and wherever Barrett Jones gets drafted, that team is getting a very technically skilled lineman who, despite not being the best athlete, is going to give you rock-solid production and leadership wherever he best fits in the NFL.

Regarding Tavon Austin... I think he's a very exciting player with an extremely rare skill-set. He probably has the best short-area quickness and cutting agility I have ever seen out of an NFL prospect. But it is going to take a creative OC to get the most out of him and I honestly don't know what his role will look like in the NFL. The comparisons I hear most are DeSean Jackson and Percy Harvin... but I don't think Austin has Jackson's deep speed or Percy Harvin's physicality, and those are really the defining characteristics of both of those players. I would like him on the Ravens but I wouldn't trade up for him, I don't think.

Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

Originally Posted by runrayrun27

To me Deonte Thompson is a cheaper Jacoby Jones. Yes we will lose that elite kick returner and I will be the first to identify him as one of our most valuable players, but it just isn't worth it to pay him that much. Thompson has a lot of upside and in the words of Oz...Next man up!

I am torn about Jacoby.

He literally pretty much directly won us 3 games this year, and some big ones too. Pitt. Den. SF.

But I still don't trust his hands as a WR. Thus, to me he is really just a returner (and a good one, despite the muffs), who can also be used at times to take the top off of a defense. I really don't know how much that is worth though.

Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

Maybe my view is skewed after 4.75 years of Cam, but, where would Austin fit?

He would takes screens away from Ray Rice. Ray Rice has similar shiftiness. We just paid him big $.

With Caldwell we ran more slants, but that should be Boldin's area. Also, Austin can't rise up and power grab balls like Boldin does, and we saw that plenty of times in the playoffs.

Don't get me wrong, he is very versatile and could really be something in the NFL. But for our particular team...I just don't know if he fits. If they want to take him and work him into the offense, I am all for it. But I just don't see the Ravens being a natural fit for this kid.

Also, trading up in the first usually requires mortgaging another year's first as part of the deal. It would probably at minimum require our 2nd and 3rd round picks this year. And I think even that would not be enough to jump into the 20s. To go from 27 to 6 the Falcons had to give up:

1st- (27th overall), second- (59th) and fourth-round (124th) picks in 2011 and their first- and fourth-round picks in 2012 (two 1sts, a 2nd and two 4s for 21 spots). Now moving from 32 to 20 would require less...but not that much less. I really don't see Ozzie making such a move.

You can't compare moving from 27 to 6 with 32 to the mid 20's... using the Jimmy Johnson draft chart:

Pick 6 is worth 1600,
Pick 27 is 680 with the 2nd being 310 and the 4th 49 thats 1029. Leaves 571. Next year's picks are generally considered half price, so that means that Atlanta got a slight bargin compared to the chart. (729/2 is 365ish).

Pick 22 is 760, 25 is 720
Pick 32 is 590 our 3rd is 116, 44 for our 4th. All 3 picks is smack dab on for pick 22, 1st and 3rd is close for 25. No reason to include our 2nd or a next years 1st unless we are moving to the Teens.

Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Regarding Tavon Austin... I think he's a very exciting player with an extremely rare skill-set. He probably has the best short-area quickness and cutting agility I have ever seen out of an NFL prospect. But it is going to take a creative OC to get the most out of him and I honestly don't know what his role will look like in the NFL. The comparisons I hear most are DeSean Jackson and Percy Harvin... but I don't think Austin has Jackson's deep speed or Percy Harvin's physicality, and those are really the defining characteristics of both of those players. I would like him on the Ravens but I wouldn't trade up for him, I don't think.

My opinion matches yours.

He isn't going to show special straight line speed at the combine. Jackson was 4.35. Austin will probably 4.5+.

He isn't as thick as Percy. Percy can take a beating.

His attributes on paper lend themselves to offenses like a NE IMO. It is hard to pin down how and where to use him, but you know that he can do special things.

Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

Originally Posted by runrayrun27

To me Deonte Thompson is a cheaper Jacoby Jones. Yes we will lose that elite kick returner and I will be the first to identify him as one of our most valuable players, but it just isn't worth it to pay him that much. Thompson has a lot of upside and in the words of Oz...Next man up!

we could only be so lucky.

IMO, there was a HUGE upgrade once Jacoby took over returning duties for Deonte, and Deonte showed even less as a receiver in a comparison.

Not saying you can't eventually be right, but not sure that is correct yet.

And on Austin. Special talent. Short area quickness is off the charts. I'd trade up a short distance to secure him, he's that special, IMO. I'd also create a spot for him in this offense, you can always find a spot for tha tkind of talent.

Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

Originally Posted by jonboy79

You can't compare moving from 27 to 6 with 32 to the mid 20's... using the Jimmy Johnson draft chart:

Pick 6 is worth 1600,
Pick 27 is 680 with the 2nd being 310 and the 4th 49 thats 1029. Leaves 571. Next year's picks are generally considered half price, so that means that Atlanta got a slight bargin compared to the chart. (729/2 is 365ish).

Pick 22 is 760, 25 is 720
Pick 32 is 590 our 3rd is 116, 44 for our 4th. All 3 picks is smack dab on for pick 22, 1st and 3rd is close for 25. No reason to include our 2nd or a next years 1st unless we are moving to the Teens.

It was the first example that popped into my head. Obviously moving from 27>6 is more expensive than 32>20.

Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

Originally Posted by bt12483

I am torn about Jacoby.
He literally pretty much directly won us 3 games this year, and some big ones too. Pitt. Den. SF.
But I still don't trust his hands as a WR. Thus, to me he is really just a returner (and a good one, despite the muffs), who can also be used at times to take the top off of a defense. I really don't know how much that is worth though.

Try Tandon Doss (D. Thompson or Streeter) in 2013, then you'll find out what JJ is worth. He's at the top of his game, on a team he is well suited to, so I say "resign him!". He is an outstanding return man, and a dynamic #3 WR... what exactly are you looking for? ... Bc

Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

Originally Posted by BcRaven

Try Tandon Doss (D. Thompson or Streeter) in 2013, then you'll find out what JJ is worth. He's at the top of his game, on a team he is well suited to, so I say "resign him!". He is an outstanding return man, and a dynamic #3 WR... what exactly are you looking for? ... Bc

All of this is why I am so torn. Obviously your mind is more made up than mine. If this year's cap wasn't so tight we wouldn't even be discussing keeping him. He would be locked in.

But when things get tight you have to evaluate every little nook and cranny.

I'm not ready to give up on Doss despite his poor showing (injury bug too).

And I haven't even seen enough of Deonte and Streeter to form a valid opinion. Streeter is 6'5" and runs a 4.4 40.

Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

Originally Posted by BcRaven

Try Tandon Doss (D. Thompson or Streeter) in 2013, then you'll find out what JJ is worth. He's at the top of his game, on a team he is well suited to, so I say "resign him!". He is an outstanding return man, and a dynamic #3 WR... what exactly are you looking for? ... Bc

You're absolutely right, but tough decisions need to be made with the salary cap in mind

Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

Originally Posted by BcRaven

Try Tandon Doss (D. Thompson or Streeter) in 2013, then you'll find out what JJ is worth. He's at the top of his game, on a team he is well suited to, so I say "resign him!". He is an outstanding return man, and a dynamic #3 WR... what exactly are you looking for? ... Bc

You're absolutely right, but tough decisions need to be made with the salary cap in mind