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Thema: A possible new Evil Men faction (Gelesen 17885 mal)

As far as I remember, Castamir was a Gondorian admiral who dethroned King Eldacar by civil war. He ruled around 8 years and eventually got killed by Eldacar's himself when he returned with reinforcements. His sons escaped to Umbar and possibly became leaders of Corsairs.

My point is, Castamir died long time ago before War of the Ring. I'd like to suggest adding heir(s) of Castamir as a corsair hero to possible evil man faction, instead of himself or hero who shares the same name. It would be more lore friendly in my opinion.

This is a very interesting proposal. I like the fact that you start in Rhun and then work with other groups of evil men depending on your strategy. The idea of the Bazaar that allows you to specialise in a sub-faction is also interesting. One idea could be that the Bazaar also provides trade deals with each sub-faction. For example, if you have a trade deal with Harad, the Harad buildings produce a small amount of resources. The Bazaar itself would have to be more expensive. This is just me speculating though so feel free to ignore all of it.

I also like the unique heroes like the War Priest and the Scorpion Lord (although I'm still not sure how Amdur works). I think I agree with lordoflinks regarding Khamul. He seems to have too big of a role in Evil Men, especially since he is also one of Mordor's most powerful heroes. He is best as temporary summon who disrupts enemy buildings and units.

If only one of Saleme and Murakhan is kept, then there may need to be another hero in the faction. One role that I think could be filled would be a leader of Rhun as Amdur seems to be more like an elite warrior and tank than a leader. This leader could be made as a Ring Hero as a contrast to Suladan.

This is just more of me thinking of ideas. I think Umbar would have a emphasis on slaves. They are descendants of the Black Numenoreans from the Second Age who took slaves when they came to Middle Earth. They also used slaves to row their boats (Aragorn freed them when the Army of the Dead attacked the Corsair fleet). I don't know if this can be implemented, but there could be spell book power that recharges as enemy units are killed. When it is full, you have to option to immediately earn some money (selling the slaves) or to boost the production of a target structure (use the slaves as a work force). I also think Men of Darkness would have a close connection to Morgoth/Sauron and would worship them (the Numenoreans of the Second Age worshipped Morgoth while the Men of Darkness though Sauron was "both king and god"). They may make sacrifices to them to gain some sort of blessing. This could be implemented with the slave system. You would have the option to sacrifice the slaves. All units across the map would gain +30% damage for 1 minute but would earn no experience for this time.Again, feel free to ignore these ideas if you think they don't work.

Regarding the name of Castamir, although a new name could be made, men in Middle Earth have been known to use their ancestors names before. For example, there have been 2 Aragorns, 2 Boromirs, and 2 Denethors.

Two additional thematic concerns I think are:1. The absence of the steel bow; I believe it is a very cool weapon and the best place for it is Umbar 2. I do not believe you should be able to build Black Easterlings, in my opinion they are a very special unit that should remain as a summon from Khamul only. Rather the Easterlings should get their own unique infantry such as a "Dragon Guard."

Gespeichert

All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.

Well done on this concept, I agree with the most part of it . Personally I prefer the option in which the player chooses if they want either Harad or Rhun as their main base, but I believe that is (sadly) technically not possible; if it ain't possible then I would choose Rhun as the main base, since I like the red wood and golden roofs design of vanilla BFME2 .

This chosing of the subfaction I took as a starting point quite obviously, not wanting to have one of the core factions subordinated to the other. I took inspiration, however, from earlier proposals (particularly in the German forum) that suggested a semi-free building system for Harad in the form of moveable tents. As is I am not yet content in terms of playability in this aspect: I have a few ideas to make it easier and smoother, and bind it yet a bit more than currently described. I believe the ET will only want the Misty Mountains faction to have an uniquely free building system. Stay in tune.

I value your opinion as an Edain Beta-tester, so please feel free to share your thoughts.

I am very impressed however I do disagree on a few points:1. I feel personally Khamul has too much of an influence in you concept; during the time period of the WotR he was the captain of Dol Guldur and so it feels odd that he would leave to deal with the East, rather I think there should be a separate Easterling Emperor, mind you I am biased as I have my own concept. (Personally I think Khamul is suited as an ultimate spell to capture his true might and power); also they can't start with Kamul in WotR as then you have two khamuls walking around if Mordor is in the game (Angmar is acceptable as they are not set in WotR)2. One game play concern I have is that Khamul as a ring hero seems very OP as a player could wait till they find the ring and spawn him on top of it, which seems unfair to the enemy

Right, that summon has slipped my mind. I intended to clarify that. In that case some original way of summoning should be conceived. Perhaps he can be summoned at the side of the map, or at a citadel. Small idea, but not sure if technically possible: he could start walking into the map uncontrollably in Wraith-form, spreading fear to all units, until until the spot of summoning where he appears.

Ah I see I have not updated the War of the Ring information. Khamûl will not be one of four heroes to lead an army there. The War Priest, Amdûr, Suladan, and Castamir should do fine without him. Besides, the Edain Team does not focus effort on WotR.

I also like the unique heroes like the War Priest and the Scorpion Lord (although I'm still not sure how Amdur works). I think I agree with lordoflinks regarding Khamul. He seems to have too big of a role in Evil Men, especially since he is also one of Mordor's most powerful heroes. He is best as temporary summon who disrupts enemy buildings and units.

If only one of Saleme and Murakhan is kept, then there may need to be another hero in the faction. One role that I think could be filled would be a leader of Rhun as Amdur seems to be more like an elite warrior and tank than a leader. This leader could be made as a Ring Hero as a contrast to Suladan.

I understand your concerns regarding Khamûl, lordoflinks and Oakenshield224. Indeed, I took it from this discussion to not have the Second in Command a recruitable hero, and give him a spot in the spellbook instead. Yet I still have my doubts to what extent his abilities make him worth purchasing as his role of general disturber is copied from Mordor, hence not so original. In the spell book the Shadow of the East is meant as the clearest connection to the one external ally of the Men of Darkness (and far more!), Sauron the Deceiver.

I'll share my design philosophy to the Khamûl concept. I envisioned the Easterlings to follow Sauron's commands as if he were the god of a religion/ object of cult: this led directly to the War Priest hero, who receives and interprets messages from Sauron (either directly, through Khamûl, Mouth of Sauron or other messengers). Amdûr is conceived as the military leader with this regard, being a general but not a king. My motivation for this argument is that Tolkien only explicitly mentioned The Serpent Lord at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields leading the forces of Southrons, Variag, etc. This example I take as the proof that these armies (that were bought, deceived or forced) needed a cruel general to lead them. The Easterlings clearly did not, as is also shown when they lie in ambush at the Crossroads in Ithilien, and continue the Battle of Dale and Erebor even after Sauron has fallen. They are delirious/faithful/indoctrinated in their belief and trust in Tar-Mairon, Lord of Men. As such I felt that Khamûl is the only one to function as a ruler of Men (if he takes the Ring and becomes Emperor of Darkness): he will unite the Men of Darkness with an illusionary form that reminisces them of Sauron/Morgoth himself, thus gaining their allegiance through worship and fear.

Here, you see, is no thematic place for a leader of Easterlings as significant as an Emperor. I will not neglect your comments and will try to conceive of a new hero if and only if I can turn it into a completely unique one. I already started thinking of a hero that has different abilities when riding a Wain and unmounted. Kindly leave your thoughts on this.

Zitat

3. About your interpretation of the Variags, I feel gameplay wise they should be a pure mongolian horde so they do not clash with the Black Numenoreans in term of themes and role4. What about the Dragon Throne giving Rhun a full wall as an idea? (I believe that is technically possible) 5. I hope if your concept is used the greek designs are not, as in my mind they fit better in Dorwinion

Regards the Variag, I admit I do not understand your concern, although I have started considering other possibilities of implementing them. I see them as single units with comparable strength to Beornings/Berserkers, with a certain hero-support aspect. This is based of the historical Varangian Guard in the Byzantine Empire: sultans, lords and kings bought the services of mercenary guardians from Scandinavian origin, impressed by their fierceness (and their loyalty to money, without interest in politics). The Black Numenorean heroic unit are meant to pull closer to a past of Dark Sorcery and Witchcraft in combination with worship of Morgoth/Sauron. They are a powerful elite/hero-killing unit with aspects of sacrifice. Concerning the Numenorean Steel Bow, I kept it out knowingly in the supposition that this knowledge was not well conserved. Indeed, the falling of Isildur described in the Unfinished Tales mentions his archers being equipped with Steel Bows. Would this not mean also smithies in Arnor and Gondor had this knowledge up to the end of the Third Age, and not only the King's Men remaining in Umbar? Besides, the faction requires no niche or thematic necessity to include a heroic ranged unit.

About the Dragon Throne giving a full wall, this was my initial idea but I am not sure whether it is technically possible, feasible, sensible and fun to play with. I need a concluding word on this from ET.

The Greek designs were meant to illustrate ideas of armour and helmets at some stage of the process: I agree that designs more unique and fitting to Middle-Earth should be created. I just hoped I could draw better, because I do have ideas in my head.

Zitat

Overall I have felt your concept is very impressive and I think if any concept will be chosen in this thread it will be yours (This is me conceding defeat...) although personally I prefer my own (as it is natural) as I am a sucker for symmetry and structure and that is what my concept embodies.

I never meant to defeat you. I have looked at your proposal and I see you put care into it. It seems as though our concepts are not compatible. Could you explain what you mean with lack of symmetry and structure? I would gladly improve that.

The idea of the Bazaar that allows you to specialise in a sub-faction is also interesting. One idea could be that the Bazaar also provides trade deals with each sub-faction. For example, if you have a trade deal with Harad, the Harad buildings produce a small amount of resources. The Bazaar itself would have to be more expensive. This is just me speculating though so feel free to ignore all of it.

The Bazaar has cracked my skull many times and is also now in a phase of restructuring, though almost final. Your suggestion has past my mind as well, but I felt it would make this building too important for the faction, rather than just providing a smart and unique way to getting unit upgrades.

Zitat

This is just more of me thinking of ideas. I think Umbar would have a emphasis on slaves. They are descendants of the Black Numenoreans from the Second Age who took slaves when they came to Middle Earth. They also used slaves to row their boats (Aragorn freed them when the Army of the Dead attacked the Corsair fleet). I don't know if this can be implemented, but there could be spell book power that recharges as enemy units are killed. When it is full, you have to option to immediately earn some money (selling the slaves) or to boost the production of a target structure (use the slaves as a work force). I also think Men of Darkness would have a close connection to Morgoth/Sauron and would worship them (the Numenoreans of the Second Age worshipped Morgoth while the Men of Darkness though Sauron was "both king and god"). They may make sacrifices to them to gain some sort of blessing. This could be implemented with the slave system. You would have the option to sacrifice the slaves. All units across the map would gain +30% damage for 1 minute but would earn no experience for this time.Again, feel free to ignore these ideas if you think they don't work.

I will clarify my points here, the resource building called Workshop is in fact conceived of a place of slave labour. It must be natural for people in the East and South to oppose Sauron's regime, so these are mostly political prisoners and labour force to forge and build. I also thought it would be an interesting place to include Orocarni Dwarves, both as enslaved and overseer. Back to your suggestion, it seems to put too much emphasis on enslaving tribes or races throughout the whole faction. This aspect is better at place in Mordor's Slave Camps (Orcs cannot do agriculture it seems) or Misty Mountains Slave Prison (Orcs cannot mine or build either, it seems ). The idea in-between the lines of the worship aspect I see reflected in the Shrine/Well or Statue of Sauron structures. This requires work still, but thanks for the heads-up.

@Morwereth: The name Castamir links to an historical character in Middle-Earth, I am aware of that. I did this for the exact reason that names are reused in other instances, indicated by Oakenshield224: they are meant to remind us of these characters. I have thus build the character of Castamir (the Second if you will) on the basis of revenge for his ancestor Castamir the Usurper: I believe this is a very interesting position to start from because it gives the hero a background story far more realistic than a simple Corsair Captain who wants loot and booze.

This is going to be a long post so I hope you are ready. Garlodur, I shall address your concerns first by explaining my feedback with your idea and then I shall explain why I did the things I did in my concept so you can understand my viewpoint.1. Feedback on your Proposal

Firstly I think there is a major flaw in your concept, specifically with how Harad's units are recruited as in my eyes it is too complicated. I think your free build system is good, but not in Edain 4.0 (It would be right at home in 3.8.1); what I have noticed in 4.0 is that all of a subfraction's units come from a single place (Whether it is a settlement or an outpost) and breaking this pattern I feel confuses the player, for example I am having a hard time getting my head around which Harad units are recruited where. The other concern is that the AI can not handle the system and then when facing it you find out you will face hardly any Harad units. My suggestion would be to make Harad purely an outpost and give Rhun archers in their barracks. This is what I mean by a lack of clear structure, at least to me for it is making my brain hurt .

If the above was adopted I would argue there is now an opening for the steel bow are wielded by an Umbarian Unit as if Harad was in one settlement there would need to be something to make Umbar more worthy, and what better than an extremely long ranged archer unit. In any case to answer your concerns about the steelbow I have always felt that Gondor by the time of the WotR was in decline and was unable to muster their might of old, hence the disappearance of the steel bow, and while some may have existed among the Dunedain I doubt there would have been enough to field an army. Hence it makes sense the only ones who still use it are the Black Numenorians who are still great in power in the south.

I concerned Dragon Fortress is too similar to Stronghold of the Witch-King myself, perhaps have that be the fraction spell?

My final specific concern is that there is too much Mordor in Rhun. I see no need for the Mouth of Sauron if you have the warpriest as they seem to fulfill the same role thematically of a diplomat encouraging Rhun to fight. As for the idea of showing ties between Mordor and the Men of Darkness remember there are 4 distinct realms and I think having Khamul, the War priest and a statue of sauron is enough; any more and I fear you are stifling the potential of the 4 realms to stand on their own two feet as a fraction.

Now on to my reasoning behind my own idea. I think the reason why our two concepts are so different with much the same aim of creating a fraction that blends multiple sources is different interpretations of Rhun's primary motive in the WotR. I always have understood their primary motive to be a hatred of the West rather than complete blind obedience to Sauron as a god (Not to say they did not worship him as such) and as such designed my idea around that facet. Your interpretation is also valid (And holds true for umbar and harad regardless in my opinion who are in close proximity to Mordor). As such I decided to have Rhun have little to no connection to Mordor except through Shadow of the East for pure gameplay reasons so they would feel unique. Hence I had to decide on the central themes that would make up Rhun and I decided as they have been usually associated with cataphacts one of their themes would be greek fire and the other would be a gradual progression from a collection of tribes to an empire (Hence the leveling system). At this point I intentionally chose to give them weak siege and range capacities, for reasons you will see soon. The Emperor is positioned as a parallel to Aragon, a leader of men for the Shadow who has had to claw his way up through the ranks rather than assuming the role. Giving the ring to the Emperor helps plug up Rhun's siege weakness. I then tried one concept but received feedback it did not take all the Evil Men into account and shifted to my current one that gave all three remaining evil men fractions equal representation meaning all three are important. The main reason behind the choice of only picking one outpost is to allow all three sub-fractions to have a good amount of heroes; the role of the choice overall is to allow Rhun to diversify; I recently changed it so you can pick your fraction at any point in the game so as to surprise your enemy. Hence I allowed all 4 settlements to be built regardless to show that even though you may not choose to focus on a minor fraction they still have some representation in the fraction as a whole. I also gave each of the outposts a unique building/leveling system so they would feel like different realms. Rhun does not have a normal outpost, instead it has a lothlorien style outpost, so as to allow Harad to have a mirkwood style outpost and thus feel like a proper mini fraction. The intended strategy for Rhun is to either turtle at the beginning of the game until you can start producing your normal units or to utilize Brodda II and the Balchloth Embassy. Now, each of the choices embodies a different approach. Khand is the aggressive fraction giving you very mobile units that reward you with resources if you press the opponent, hence why the outpost levels up depending on the Khans' level so as to reward aggressiveness. Harad exists to fill the gaps in your roster by allowing Rhun access to affordable cavalry, good archers and good siege as well as economic boosts through the Golden King as Rhun's normal units are not cheap. Finally Umbar is a risk for while it grants access to extremely powerful units and a fortress, favoring a slow defensive approach, it does not fill up the gaps in rhun's roster and the units for while powerful, are slow and very expensive. It does grant access to the steel bow however which helps Rhun's ranged weakness, the name Temple Guard and Knights are an allusion to their dedication to Sauron and Morgoth. Thank you by the way your comments have helped me improve my concept my getting rid of the BN sorcerers, making the Temple Guards a normal unit. I see no problem with Khand having a single heavy infantry unit now, and I have adopted that approach in my own concept, giving them a living siege weapon that is an elite that combines the Variag guardian look with the role of the Black Easterlings; in my mind that works as it makes sense the elites of Khand would own heavy amour, everyone else would be mongols.

I hope my explanation has been sufficient. Please ask me if you have any questions. My comment about conceding defeat was meant in jest as an expression of how impressed I was with your concept, and the extreme likelihood that if any concept will be picked it will be yours.

Gespeichert

All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.

Here I am finally with a reaction to you, lordoflinks. I have been away for a bit due to study occupations. First of all, thank you for your feedback. Let's discuss some of it as far as it fits in one post in a structured way.

I am glad you start with the way the Haradrim are incorporated in this faction. As mentioned in the post before yours, this is greatly inspired by discussions on a free-building system concept with Harad as the main faction, reducing the Easterlings to the outpost. Although it fitted in that concept and different scenarios as well, I see however, that it is not fair to reduce either the Easterlings or Southrons to a secondary position in the faction Men of Darkness. I hope to have found a fair balance between the two in my concept, having the Men of the East in a defense-oriented castle and the Haradrim as front-line harrass troops with their moveable tents. In my eyes they are both the core to the faction, knowing that Sauron used them at the same time in the great assault on Mordor, which is arguably the largest and most determining battle of the Third Age with all forces of the Free People in Minas Tirith and the Pelennor Fields.

Anyway, I envisioned the Easterlings and Haradrim working together in harmony on the battlefield. This goal can only be reached when they have comparable units offering both sides of a coin (defensive and offensive), which means either army would have too many units to delegate to an outpost (Easterlings have 7, Haradrim 6) while upsetting the balance. In fact, I believe my devision of Haradrim units makes sense: Swordsmen, Archers and Raider cavalry are cheap and disposable troops for the front line, while Mûmakil are stuck to one building, but can walk right out onto the battlefield, and the Spear Throwers and Hasharii are elite units right at place in the Haradrim Palace on the outpost plot.

In your concept I see more reasons to be confused with how the faction works regarding the great amount of buildings, units, and heroes for all different subfactions. I understand they should not be available at the same moment but I have tried in my own concept to give each building, unit, and hero a clearly defined role so that all aspects of the faction combined could still give a balanced approach to the game.

I am unfortunately still not convinced about the steel bow, and mostly for the reason that the Men of Darkness are not caracterised as a great archer faction. The Black Númenorean Warrior heroic unit is also not thematically meant to have such skills: they disable and kill enemy heroes and are trained in sorcery to increase their strength (this aspect will be emphasised further in the Dome of Umbar outpost).

Thank you for pointing out the Emperor's/Dragon's Throne spell. Indeed, the idea came from the Stronghold of the Witch-King spell, but it has gone under many transformations with my concept. I like the idea of having the citadel function as the most central building in the whole faction (including Haradrim, Variag, and Umbarians) so perhaps it should have something more to do with the worshipping of Sauron.

Point taken on the Mouth of Sauron, he is removed as a spell and Khamûl will fill up this position.

With regards to your explanation on the differences in our concepts I have come up with an idea of shaping the Men of Darkness more to the faction of people's liking.

At the start of each game the Easterling castle will be built in a regular way. When you click on the citadel you will then have the option to choose to upgrade right away into a particular subfaction for free. This choice affects your starting units and allows buildings to level up in time. Later in the game, you can choose to upgrade the other subfactions as well so that you can pull together the full might of the Men of Darkness.

Choose Easterlings: the citadel is extended on one side with a small embassy-like reception hall with war priests; the starting units remain Easterling Swordsmen; Easterling recruitment buildings will start levelling in time. This choice benefits the defensive player but is still necessary in mid-game if you want quick access to elite troops and siege

Choose Southrons: the citadel is extended with a embassy tent from the south with NPC Spear Throwers on guard; Southron Buildings build freely on the map by Southron Builders start levelling in time; starter units change into Haradrim Swordsmen. This benefits an aggressive player with easily spammed units from different corners of the map but remains necessary in mid-game to extend the power of the Mûmakil.

Choose Umbarians: the citadel is extended with a small temple-like building with an NPC Black Númenorean on guard; starting units are turned into Corsairs and the Bazar now allows recruitment of Corsairs. This allows for a strong economic harrasment strategy which is weak if not founded by units from the other realms

I would like to hear all your thoughts on this implementation, whether it's feasible, strategically interesting, and not too similar to the Dwarves' system.

I've said all I have needed to say really, so I can offer no more thoughts really.Good luck with the rest of your concept.

Gespeichert

All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.

Hello Evil Men Fans I want to present you one of my last Hero concept i made. I put some fantasy in it and i have lot of fun during the creation. However, you will notice that the character is not totally invented but is actually based on lore. The starting goal of my work it was in fact to explore the identity of unknown Nazguls. In particular i was inspired by one of the armor from BOTFA, as you will see below. Note that i'm not posting it for a definitive judgment (the usual FOR/AGAINST list), because it would be simply to early to do that. Moreover, i currently don't have a clear idea about how this character would be actually introduced in the faction (via spellbook, external outopost, or whaever), since all about Evil Men faction is unknown and open to discussion. it is really incredible how detailed your ideas and plans are in this thread. It is a really creative place and i'm actually posting this concept keeping this exact spirit So let me know all your opinion: what do you think about lore connection i made? What about this precise design and do you like other Nazgul armor that currently can't be implemented? I thank Filip because he gave me his opinion and help me for some details

HERUMOR: THE CRUEL NUMENOREAN KING

Zitat von: The Silmarillion

"But because of the power of Gil-galad these renegades, lords both mighty and evil, for the most part took up their abodes in the southlands far away; yet two there were, Herumor and Fuinur, who rose to power among the Haradrim, a great and cruel people that dwelt in the wide lands south of Mordor beyond the mouths of Anduin."

"Herumor: A renegade Númenórean who became mighty among the Haradrim at the end of the Second Age."

LORE AND HYPOTHESIS

As you can see i quoted above the Tolkien writings about Herumor. Both him and his brother Fuinur, were black Numenorean that estiblished their domain in Harad after the downfall of Numenor. Both were powerful and cruel allies who served Sauron during the second age. I do believe like many fans that they finally become both Nazgûl enslaved by two of the nine rings. Evetually, they have been forsaken and finally forgotten by their own folk along with their names and personalities.I saw that for example MorgulLord (creator of BOTTA) introduced in his mod a similar Nazgûl (same armor shown below), naming the character Ji Indur. It is a widely used name across the web, but it is actually a fictional name which comes from Middle-earth Role Playing game (MERP) published by Iron Crown Enterprises. In my opinion Herumor and Fuinur are the most valid and lore-friendly hypothesis about two of the unknown identities of the Ringwraiths, given also that their name have been written by the Professor himself.Actually the fictional nameless title "The Forsaken" comes from Forge World's website, which is a sort of subdivision of Game Workshop. As the team did for the Dark Marshall and Shadow Lord, i would like to keep this title, leaving the story of Herumor as lore background.

HERUMOR: THE FORSAKEN (RINGWRAITH)

What actually triggered and inspired me to craft this concept is the Haradrim-like Nazgûl we have seen in The Hobbit. I myself like especially this robe along with the one of Khamûl, since they are more sober and clearly shows the orgin of the two damned kings of men. Instead, i deem the other BOTFA armor (WK included) quite strange and too much full of details and not worth to be implemented. Pheraphs also the Dark Headsman (the one with axe) is acceptable, but with adjusting some details. Here below the three ringwraiths and the miniature from FW:

Since i don't like so much the shape of the trident, i would actually turn it into a lance. Maybe also enlarging a bit the central blade would be more proper. An example could be the one below:

My idea is that The Forsaken's Southern Spear is a cursed weapon that cause terrible wounds. The Haradrim Wraith was a skilled spear masters in his past life (GOT fans will catch where my inspiration comes from).

THE SOUTHERN NAZGÛL IN GAME

The Forsaken is a terrible vision both for enmies and allies: during his life as man, he was a cruel and mercilessy black Numenorean king who ruled diffusing terror and executing the opponents. Even his wraith form he didn't lose any of his ancient character: wherever he goes he draws life of surrounding lifeform, turning all like an arid desert of the South. His role in harad faction will be of an hero killer and unit interferer. He will have the same intial stat values of the other two minor Nazgûl (Dark Marshall and Shadow Lord).

Level 1: mount/dismount: the Forsaken mounts his black Harad steed.

Classic mounth of a Nazgûl.

Level 2: Plaguing Aura (passive): wherever The Forsaken goes he draws life of surrounding lifeform, turning all like an arid desert of Harad. Surrouding enemy units lose 10% of attack and armor while enemy heroes' lose 10% of attack and their abilities take 10% longer time to recharge once used.

The classic influence of a Nazgûl with some improvements against heroes.

Level 8: Cursed Spear : The Forsaken's spear causes terrible and incurable wounds. The selected enemy hero is damaged and marked by the spear for a certain time: every time the marked hero is hit by the lance he lose 5% of armor up to 50%.

An alternative to Morgul Blade which fits best for a spear master

Level 10: Desert Terror : The Forsaken temporary summons five black scorpion of Harad. These terrible creatures have high single damage thanks to the powerful pinces: they can easly shear off even the best of the armor. Futhermore they have the ability to sting a single unit or hero poisoning him over the time and slowing down due to paralization effect of the venom (-25% of speed).

Scorpion model and animation from vanilla's Gorkil mount (totally out of place in the original game). These monsters are awaken from under the sand to chase down a weak hero or monster eventually finishing the target.

From a gameplay point of view, I really like this idea Aule! It fits with the main ideas of a Nazgul while adding some uniqueness that comes with Harad. The main obstacle to do with this would be whether the Team would wish to have the Nazgul in another faction (especially when all 9 are currently in Mordor). That's up to them though. I see you have thought about the lore context of the hero.

I do have one question and one suggestion about the proposal. Firstly, would the effects of Cursed Spear be permanent?

My suggestion concerns the Burning Sand ability. Currently, it seems like you cast it on an area and that area then gets affected. One ability could be that it acts as an enhancement to the Plaguing Aura ability. So you'd activate Burning Sand and the area around the Nazgul would be affected (along with any enemies in that area). If the Nazgul then moves while the ability is active, the corrupted area would follow the Nazgul. It would act as a trail, so it would be left behind for a few seconds and then disappear once the Nazgul has moved away. I don't know if this is technically possible but I hope that you like the idea.

Well Aule, the ideas are great. But if you're going from a lore standpoint which I think is the reason why you included the names for these nazgul--it says that Herumor and Fuinur rose to power AFTER the downfall of Numenor. How could they be nazgul then?

Sorry to be a thorn. But that is what it says unfortunately. I really like the idea. If no one cares about that then lead on!

Oh because the nazgul appear in 2251 Appendix B in the Return of the King. Herumor and his brother are later.

« Letzte Änderung: 14. Mai 2018, 00:55 von dkbluewizard »

Gespeichert

Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

Oak: sorry for the late answer man. You are right is up to them implementing or not Nazguls externally to Mordor. But I would like to see something I propose because it cuold give some pernsonality and characterization to another wraith. The theme of origin of the nine intrigues me, with all the mystery around it.

Dkblue: you're actually right I misplace the first appearance of the Nazguls. I should revise the lore part of the work. In fact another interesting point about Harad is the Melkor adoration/dark cult. I thought also to revolve my character around this theme before connecting him to Heromur. He could be an ancient chieftain of Harad (a precursor of Herumor and his brother), who devolve himself to the cult of Morgoth. No information are given about any line of Haradrim kings in the lore.

Though I must agree with dkbluewizard; according to the lore these two figures among the Haradrim only rose to power after the Nazgul were created. You could twist it to say that they were Nazgul in disguise but I don't quite follow that line of thought. It would suggest that, much like the Witch-King, these figures should have been capable of establishing a realm of divided peoples to counter the might of Gondor. Yet the Annals indicate that Gondor was pestered often, never as near to destruction as Arnor: at least of the hands of these two.

Still, you touch upon a topic I am also still struggling to incorporate in my concept above. Perhaps you would like to shed a closer look upon this proposal, although I have been working quite a bit on improving it and bringing points together.

The main topic of confusion for me is Khamul. I want to simultaneously implement him as the central figure of the faction that unites the Men of Darkness for good, and have him play most of his part through influencing other leaders, seeing him as more of a lieutenant (literally 'place-holder') of Sauron. The reason for my suggesting is that Khamul could not have always been amongst the Easterling, Haradrim, Corsairs, Black Numenoreans, Variag etc. because he was also an agent of the Dark Lord's 'secret' service. Most notably is the period between TA 2951 and TA 3018 during which he was stationed in Dol Guldur.

I conclude that the most feasible way of influencing the Men of Darkness was through an established cult, either towards Sauron or Morgoth. Perhaps Khamul was more like a pope is to christianity, or maybe he was more akin in his ways to Annatar, ultimately guiding Haradrim and Easterling leaders to the same fate as Ar-Pharazon the Golden. Or perhaps Khamul reclaimed his former position as king of Easterlings and extended his reign over all Men of the East and South, forming a massive empire or a 'union of republics'