Confabulat:Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free. I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything. And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Have you read how Scientology works? It's more or less a systematic hypnosis system. I'm no Christian, but I certainly understand the difference between a religion and a cult.

Benevolent Misanthrope:Lots of things are free. I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything. And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Anyone else?

By the way, this is so childish to have to explain to an adult, but I guess you are all "all religions are dopey and I am smart and I can't tell the difference from one to the other because I'm too smart to understand how to do that," but it's not WHAT Scientology believes that makes them a cult.

It's the HOW. And the WAY.

You can grab that Gideons' Bible from a hotel room and go walk off to the woods with it and be the best Christian ever.

You cannot do that with Scientology. It is more like a college curriculum, and those credit hours are EXPENSIVE.

Confabulat:Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free. I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything. And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Have you read how Scientology works? It's more or less a systematic hypnosis system. I'm no Christian, but I certainly understand the difference between a religion and a cult.

So, explain it to me. Because I've never gotten anyone to give me a reason better than, "Religions are just like cults, only more people believe in them and therefore they're socially more acceptable."

Confabulat:Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free. I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything. And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Anyone else?

By the way, this is so childish to have to explain to an adult, but I guess you are all "all religions are dopey and I am smart and I can't tell the difference from one to the other because I'm too smart to understand how to do that," but it's not WHAT Scientology believes that makes them a cult.

It's the HOW. And the WAY.

You can grab that Gideons' Bible from a hotel room and go walk off to the woods with it and be the best Christian ever.

You cannot do that with Scientology. It is more like a college curriculum, and those credit hours are EXPENSIVE.

But you can't be a good Catholic that way. Are you telling me Catholicism isn't a religion?

Get over your snarky little self. I'm making a point, which is that it's really only a matter of degrees. Enough people start to believe Scientology, it will be socially acceptable and be thought of as a religion instead of a cult.

There are some similarities between Scientology, Mormonism, & Global Warming. You invest so much of yourself into them before they tell you about the really crazy stuff. With Christianity, they tell you the really crazy stuff right off the bat.

fify.I'm no god-squadder by any means, but $cientology is a religion as much as a rancid hot dog is a hot off the grill T-bone steak with all the fixins.

Explain for me, please, how Scientology's beliefs are any less credible than other religions'.

They don't even make sense to people who believe in those other religions.

I'm sure Catholic beliefs make no sense to Scientologists, either.

Anyone want to tell me how Scientology's beliefs are less credible than other religions'?

the issue is not their beliefs, they're no more crazy than magic underwear or statues crying blood tears. What people take issue with is their methods and practices. It is here where they zoom so far away from the line of their religious peers that A) they can't even see the line, and B) they've come into and possibly crossed ANOTHER line, that of organized crime operations.

It's a bad point. Scientology is a business like Herbalife. Do people make money off Christianity? Well, duh. of course they do. But NO ONE is allowed to teach or make money off Scientology EXCEPT for the Church of Scientology, because they own all the copyrights and trademarks. There is a sort of Luther-ian offshoot of Scientology these days that doesn't recognize Miscavige's church, but they are continually being sued for trying to use L. Ron Hubbard's rather insane lessons without proper legal ability.

It's like if Disney owned the Bible.

A matter of degrees? Of course. So what? It's a ton of degrees away from any free religion.

Anyone want to tell me how Scientology's beliefs are less credible than other religions'?

That's not nearly as relevant as Protestant beliefs making sense to Catholics, or Jews, etc.

Come again? Not sure what that has to do with Scientology being less credible in their beliefs than other religions.

Are you Farking with a short attention span or do you not understand the comparison?Scientology's beliefs are less credible than other religions because other religions think scientology is crazy, but think that other religions are not crazy and just believe in different things (and are wrong).

I have been photographed by their cameras they have at head level on their buildings in Ybor City. If you walk around their buildings there, you will be photographed several times. I sense they are trying to extract my soul from those photographs, but as of yet, they have been unsuccessful.

Anyone want to tell me how Scientology's beliefs are less credible than other religions'?

That's not nearly as relevant as Protestant beliefs making sense to Catholics, or Jews, etc.

Come again? Not sure what that has to do with Scientology being less credible in their beliefs than other religions.

Are you Farking with a short attention span or do you not understand the comparison?Scientology's beliefs are less credible than other religions because other religions think scientology is crazy, but think that other religions are not crazy and just believe in different things (and are wrong).

Confabulat:Benevolent Misanthrope: I'm making a point, which is that it's really only a matter of degrees.

It's a bad point. Scientology is a business like Herbalife. Do people make money off Christianity? Well, duh. of course they do. But NO ONE is allowed to teach or make money off Scientology EXCEPT for the Church of Scientology, because they own all the copyrights and trademarks. There is a sort of Luther-ian offshoot of Scientology these days that doesn't recognize Miscavige's church, but they are continually being sued for trying to use L. Ron Hubbard's rather insane lessons without proper legal ability.

It's like if Disney owned the Bible.

A matter of degrees? Of course. So what? It's a ton of degrees away from any free religion.

Uh, I really wouldn't classify Scientology as a religion. It's a nutjob CULT hiding under the tax-benefits of a religion. Trust me, real religions wouldn't touch their actions or beliefs with a twenty foot cattle prod.

BluVeinThrobber:Diogenes: BluVeinThrobber: Diogenes: BluVeinThrobber: badhatharry: No comment. I have nothing negative to say about Scientology.

You should try a little harder

I see you enjoy raping babies.

Only your mom's

It's a Co$ thing.

I dont own any t-shirts with logos on them

What I'm saying is that this is a Co$ tactic. It's something they are trained to do when presented with critics or other opposition -- a ridiculous and extreme non sequitur. They commonly use the "raping babies" thing.

Benevolent Misanthrope:Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: I'm making a point, which is that it's really only a matter of degrees.

It's a bad point. Scientology is a business like Herbalife. Do people make money off Christianity? Well, duh. of course they do. But NO ONE is allowed to teach or make money off Scientology EXCEPT for the Church of Scientology, because they own all the copyrights and trademarks. There is a sort of Luther-ian offshoot of Scientology these days that doesn't recognize Miscavige's church, but they are continually being sued for trying to use L. Ron Hubbard's rather insane lessons without proper legal ability.

It's like if Disney owned the Bible.

A matter of degrees? Of course. So what? It's a ton of degrees away from any free religion.

Uh, I really wouldn't classify Scientology as a religion. It's a nutjob CULT hiding under the tax-benefits of a religion. Trust me, real religions wouldn't touch their actions or beliefs with a twenty foot cattle prod.

Benevolent Misanthrope:Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free. I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything. And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Anyone else?

By the way, this is so childish to have to explain to an adult, but I guess you are all "all religions are dopey and I am smart and I can't tell the difference from one to the other because I'm too smart to understand how to do that," but it's not WHAT Scientology believes that makes them a cult.

It's the HOW. And the WAY.

You can grab that Gideons' Bible from a hotel room and go walk off to the woods with it and be the best Christian ever.

You cannot do that with Scientology. It is more like a college curriculum, and those credit hours are EXPENSIVE.

But you can't be a good Catholic that way. Are you telling me Catholicism isn't a religion?

Get over your snarky little self. I'm making a point, which is that it's really only a matter of degrees. Enough people start to believe Scientology, it will be socially acceptable and be thought of as a religion instead of a cult.

Let's start with even the slightest basis for reality. Historical Jesus existed. Likewise, Mohammed lived, as did Buddha. So at the very least, there is a material starting point. Compare that to Xenu. An alien made up from wholecloth by a science fiction writer. Even as a non-believer, in my mind Christianity/Islam/other already has a leg up on Scientology.

I don't believe that Jesus rose from the dead any more than I believe that Xenu blew up a volcano filled with souls. I do find a difference in a mythology about a man that actually walked the earth which can be traced to multiple sources, and Scientology.

lizyrd:Benevolent Misanthrope: Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free. I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything. And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Anyone else?

By the way, this is so childish to have to explain to an adult, but I guess you are all "all religions are dopey and I am smart and I can't tell the difference from one to the other because I'm too smart to understand how to do that," but it's not WHAT Scientology believes that makes them a cult.

It's the HOW. And the WAY.

You can grab that Gideons' Bible from a hotel room and go walk off to the woods with it and be the best Christian ever.

You cannot do that with Scientology. It is more like a college curriculum, and those credit hours are EXPENSIVE.

But you can't be a good Catholic that way. Are you telling me Catholicism isn't a religion?

Get over your snarky little self. I'm making a point, which is that it's really only a matter of degrees. Enough people start to believe Scientology, it will be socially acceptable and be thought of as a religion instead of a cult.

Let's start with even the slightest basis for reality. Historical Jesus existed. Likewise, Mohammed lived, as did Buddha. So at the very least, there is a material starting point. Compare that to Xenu. An alien made up from wholecloth by a science fiction writer. Even as a non-believer, in my mind Christianity/Islam/other already has a leg up on Scientology.

I don't believe that Jesus rose from the dead any more than I believe that Xenu blew up a volcano filled with souls. I do find a difference in a mythology about a man that actually walked the earth which can be traced to multiple sources, and Scientology.

So what if jesus and mohammad and Buddha all lived? The idea of their being divine beings is no more far-fetched than that of the idea of Xenu.

Diogenes:BluVeinThrobber: Diogenes: BluVeinThrobber: Diogenes: BluVeinThrobber: badhatharry: No comment. I have nothing negative to say about Scientology.

You should try a little harder

I see you enjoy raping babies.

Only your mom's

It's a Co$ thing.

I dont own any t-shirts with logos on them

What I'm saying is that this is a Co$ tactic. It's something they are trained to do when presented with critics or other opposition -- a ridiculous and extreme non sequitur. They commonly use the "raping babies" thing.

Benevolent Misanthrope:Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free. I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything. And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Anyone else?

By the way, this is so childish to have to explain to an adult, but I guess you are all "all religions are dopey and I am smart and I can't tell the difference from one to the other because I'm too smart to understand how to do that," but it's not WHAT Scientology believes that makes them a cult.

It's the HOW. And the WAY.

You can grab that Gideons' Bible from a hotel room and go walk off to the woods with it and be the best Christian ever.

You cannot do that with Scientology. It is more like a college curriculum, and those credit hours are EXPENSIVE.

But you can't be a good Catholic that way. Are you telling me Catholicism isn't a religion?

Get over your snarky little self. I'm making a point, which is that it's really only a matter of degrees. Enough people start to believe Scientology, it will be socially acceptable and be thought of as a religion instead of a cult.

Voluntary sex vs rape. It's only a matter of degree.A tap on the shoulder vs stabbing. It's only a matter of degree,Lighting a fire to keep warm vs burning a building down. It's only a matter of degree.

Benevolent Misanthrope:Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free. I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything. And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Have you read how Scientology works? It's more or less a systematic hypnosis system. I'm no Christian, but I certainly understand the difference between a religion and a cult.

So, explain it to me. Because I've never gotten anyone to give me a reason better than, "Religions are just like cults, only more people believe in them and therefore they're socially more acceptable."

It's quite obvious you don't actually want anyone to explain it to you

What I'm saying is that this is a Co$ tactic. It's something they are trained to do when presented with critics or other opposition -- a ridiculous and extreme non sequitur. They commonly use the "raping babies" thing.

It seems to work. I was taken aback at being called a baby raper

Mehh, I have been called that since 1970.baby raper, woman killer, you know, deeply intellectual stuff

Pick:I have been photographed by their cameras they have at head level on their buildings in Ybor City. If you walk around their buildings there, you will be photographed several times. I sense they are trying to extract my soul from those photographs, but as of yet, they have been unsuccessful.

Any chance that CoS doctrine could cause paella to be banned? If it does, and they try, I will personally donate to all of their organized detractors. You have to draw the line somewhere.

Tyrone Slothrop:Benevolent Misanthrope: Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free. I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything. And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Anyone else?

By the way, this is so childish to have to explain to an adult, but I guess you are all "all religions are dopey and I am smart and I can't tell the difference from one to the other because I'm too smart to understand how to do that," but it's not WHAT Scientology believes that makes them a cult.

It's the HOW. And the WAY.

You can grab that Gideons' Bible from a hotel room and go walk off to the woods with it and be the best Christian ever.

You cannot do that with Scientology. It is more like a college curriculum, and those credit hours are EXPENSIVE.

But you can't be a good Catholic that way. Are you telling me Catholicism isn't a religion?

Get over your snarky little self. I'm making a point, which is that it's really only a matter of degrees. Enough people start to believe Scientology, it will be socially acceptable and be thought of as a religion instead of a cult.

Voluntary sex vs rape. It's only a matter of degree.

A tap on the shoulder vs stabbing. It's only a matter of degree,Lighting a fire to keep warm vs burning a building down. It's only a matter of degree.

LOL, no. All of these things are comparisons of acts which have entirely different motivations and intents. Scientology does not differ in motivation or intent from "real religions".

Benevolent Misanthrope:LOL, no. All of these things are comparisons of acts which have entirely different motivations and intents. Scientology does not differ in motivation or intent from "real religions".

False.

The motivations of most traditional religions are (gen) well meaning but misguided. The motivations of scientology are cynical and exploitative. The beliefs themselves are irrelevant, the actions of the 'church' are the only relevant part.

But you know this, and have just chosen to troll, so good luck to you.

Gothnet:Benevolent Misanthrope: LOL, no. All of these things are comparisons of acts which have entirely different motivations and intents. Scientology does not differ in motivation or intent from "real religions".

False.

The motivations of most traditional religions are (gen) well meaning but misguided. The motivations of scientology are cynical and exploitative. The beliefs themselves are irrelevant, the actions of the 'church' are the only relevant part.

But you know this, and have just chosen to troll, so good luck to you.

Wow, are you naïve.

Scientology - just like every other religion - is indeed cynically exploitative. Its adherents - just like every other religion - are well-meaning but misguided.

Man, even atheists become religion apologists when confronted with the question, "where is the line between religion and cult?". Very interesting. Insults, "because I said so", ignoring similarities, false comparisons... but no one willing to really think about this and decide where the line is or even if it exists.

I'm still debating the question myself, by the way. Which is why I always ask the question in these "IT'S A CULT!" threads, and why I keep dismissing spurious arguments.

Benevolent Misanthrope:Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: Anyone want to tell me how Scientology's beliefs are less credible than other religions'?

Cause a Bible is free and there are even people who put them in hotel rooms. If you want to know what's in Scientology, pull out your wallet.

That's a rather large difference to me.

Lots of things are free. I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything. And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Anyone else?

OK, I'll bite. You said "ask" and what Co$ does is demand.

I'm a Catholic. My parish hits me up for money every week and when there's a fund-raising drive the basket comes around twice. That's "asking" for money and it's literally a basket being passed. (As for "how much", I kick in $5 as a rule, and $20 for major holidays or when I'm flush.) No compulsion beyond the envelopes that arrive in the mail the month prior.

When it comes to receiving the sacraments, I don't have to pay a penny; OTOH, one doesn't progress in Co$ without shelling out thousands of dollars. That's "demanding" money.

Gothnet:The motivations of most traditional religions are (gen) well meaning but misguided.

I mean...maybe they are now after hundreds of years of change, but it's not like Muhammad originally invented Islam as a religion of peace. It was mostly conquer, loot, give the population the choice of the Qur'an or the sword. Jesus probably cared more about fulfilling the old prophecy of being the savior of the jews that kicks the Romans out than "saving" peoples souls from hell. We can all agree Scientology sucks though.

fify.I'm no god-squadder by any means, but $cientology is a religion as much as a rancid hot dog is a hot off the grill T-bone steak with all the fixins.

Explain for me, please, how Scientology's beliefs are any less credible than other religions'.

They don't even make sense to people who believe in those other religions.

I'm sure Catholic beliefs make no sense to Scientologists, either.

Anyone want to tell me how Scientology's beliefs are less credible than other religions'?

Because the Catholic church was founded 2014 years ago when people believed the Earth was flat and at the center of the Universe. Because we celebrate Christmas and Easter and Christian-lore is a part of all Westerner and Middle-Easterner's culture. It's still mumbo-jumbo, but everybody knows the story of Christ and God.

Scientology was founded in 1953 on a bet, and it postulates that thousands of giant intergalactic 747s full of aliens were flown into volcanoes, and now those alien's souls inhabit your body, and only after paying around $500,000 can you have them removed. I'm ignostic, but even I can recognize that Scientology is a completely different beast than Christianity.

Look at David Miscavige himself. Where's his wife at? Oh that's right, she went against his orders on how to run the part of the church she was in charge of and nobody has seen her since. Seriously, look this up if you don't know about it. Scientology has lost a number of celebrity members over his missing wife. (She's alive, he's just had her completely isolated for the past decade, even from her church members friends.)

All religion on some level is a cult, hell, professional sports teams have cults built around them. Starbucks is a cult, but Scientology takes it a step further and forbids you to ever have contact again with people who dont follow their religion, including your family. That makes it a cult more so than just about any other religion.

So, "real religions" have the intent of brainwashing you, taking your entire fortune (not just 10%), forcing you to work for them for just barely enough to keep yourself alive, and will threaten to reveal every secret they forced out of you if you attempt to leave?

Say what you will about the Catholic church, but the higher-ups there at least seem to believe in NOT making people sign a billion year contract to serve in a private navy.

Mock26:lizyrd: Benevolent Misanthrope: Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free. I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything. And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Anyone else?

By the way, this is so childish to have to explain to an adult, but I guess you are all "all religions are dopey and I am smart and I can't tell the difference from one to the other because I'm too smart to understand how to do that," but it's not WHAT Scientology believes that makes them a cult.

It's the HOW. And the WAY.

You can grab that Gideons' Bible from a hotel room and go walk off to the woods with it and be the best Christian ever.

You cannot do that with Scientology. It is more like a college curriculum, and those credit hours are EXPENSIVE.

But you can't be a good Catholic that way. Are you telling me Catholicism isn't a religion?

Get over your snarky little self. I'm making a point, which is that it's really only a matter of degrees. Enough people start to believe Scientology, it will be socially acceptable and be thought of as a religion instead of a cult.

Let's start with even the slightest basis for reality. Historical Jesus existed. Likewise, Mohammed lived, as did Buddha. So at the very least, there is a material starting point. Compare that to Xenu. An alien made up from wholecloth by a science fiction writer. Even as a non-believer, in my mind Christianity/Islam/other already has a leg up on Scientology.

I don't believe that Jesus rose from the dead any more than I believe that Xenu blew up a volcano filled with souls. I do find a difference in a mythology about a man that actually walked the earth which can be traced to multiple sources, and Scientology.

So what if jesus and mohammad and Buddha all lived? The idea of their being divine beings is no more far-fetched than that of the idea of Xenu.

Yes. No shiat. I said as much.

I am trying to show the distinction I see between Scientology and more traditional religions. I don't believe in the magic from any of them. Transubstantiation is as ridiculous as thetans are. I simply hold a church that is based on the mythology of a man who really did exist, a church that developed based on written records and oral traditions of that man, in higher regard than a "church" that has no starting point other than the imagination of one man.

The end result is also in play; most Christians are pretty normal, as are most Muslims, Jews, Hindus or Buddhists. Fanatics of any stripe are the ones that make me uncomfortable. I haven't experienced an interaction with Scientologists without the hairs on the back of my neck standing up.

As far as the workings of the churches as they stand today: I was raised Catholic, and walked away from the Church in my late teens. No threats, no chasing, no one declaring me "fair game," I was free to go. By all accounts, leaving Scientology is...less than easy.

Benevolent Misanthrope:Gothnet: Benevolent Misanthrope: LOL, no. All of these things are comparisons of acts which have entirely different motivations and intents. Scientology does not differ in motivation or intent from "real religions".

False.

The motivations of most traditional religions are (gen) well meaning but misguided. The motivations of scientology are cynical and exploitative. The beliefs themselves are irrelevant, the actions of the 'church' are the only relevant part.

But you know this, and have just chosen to troll, so good luck to you.

Wow, are you naïve.

Scientology - just like every other religion - is indeed cynically exploitative. Its adherents - just like every other religion - are well-meaning but misguided.

Man, even atheists become religion apologists when confronted with the question, "where is the line between religion and cult?". Very interesting. Insults, "because I said so", ignoring similarities, false comparisons... but no one willing to really think about this and decide where the line is or even if it exists.

I'm still debating the question myself, by the way. Which is why I always ask the question in these "IT'S A CULT!" threads, and why I keep dismissing spurious arguments.

I always thought it boiled down to: we are a religion but they are a cult. I think someone upthread did have a point--generally cults try to isolate you so that you are dependent on them.

Benevolent Misanthrope:Explain for me, please, how Scientology's beliefs are any less credible than other religions'.

The creator of Scientology (L. Ron Hubbard) said "You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion" during an Eastern Science Fiction Association meeting on November 11, 1948.