Why does feminism exist i mean for centuries men where knights worked in mines made steel and did other hard work. And in video games and in back alleys we could get some pleasure and relaxs. But we started to misuse the woman who gave us pleasure and they arose but instead of wanting to bring this pleasure thing down and have woman do hard stuff an stressing stuff as well suddenly video games have to change because they contain sexy woman. Seriously. This makes it look like woman can't stand that they aren't as beautifull as the woman displayed as pixels and light. What do you want to do feminist? Change video games so men run naked and get raped by woman wo are OP and have cool suits and weapons. I think they need to stop targetin video games and do things in the real world and leave te pixel world alone. That is mostly our territory and you better keep your hands of it or we will bite!

Explain to me how this relates to what Endo said.
I mean, it's pretty obvious that the "quote" you wrote down is not actually a quote of something she said. You just wrote it to make her look bad. In case you didn't notice: that's pretty much the definition of libel.

Feminism tries to change this so that women can be powerful, but also so that men can sew, and be kind and emotional, cry if they want to...

In other words
"I'm gonna swap the current roles so I'm in control and you're the bottom bitches."
Read that a few times and tell me if it comes off any differently.

That's not at all what he said.
See, that's the problem. You can't read what people are writing without directly applying your own weird logic to it that dictates that anything that challenges your ideas is automatically wrong and stupid. You always take the things we say further until they are something completely different we say. You always have to try and make them into something absurd because you obviously can't find proper arguments against them.

Men doing something like sewing or showing emotions does not make them weak. Strong female characters do not mean that gender roles should be swapped. All it means is that both genders should be portrayed in an equal way and in a more multi-faceted. That way women can finally have characters they can look up to. They could play games without having to accept that they have been made for a male audience.
In case you haven't noticed, women have become an audience for different genre's than Barbie simulators. What is so bad about designing games to account for that?
What Endo was saying was that feminism tries to challenge the existing gender roles as the are portrayed in the media because they are outdated. Emotions are not a sign of weakness. Beauty is not a sign of weakness, especially in females. Power is not necessarily expressed by the weight you can benchpress. A main character can just as well triumph because of his intellect. And games are no longer just a male past-time.

I don't even know why I'm asking you to explain your position. I and a bunch of other guys have done it before and you have not been able to say anything meaningful. It's not going to change now. You're just not able to see this from a different perspective than your close-minded, irrational own one.
You're just going to say what you always say: that it's a non-issue (when it clearly isn't), that feminists shouldn't force their views onto you (but you can force yours on anyone else), or that the whole thing is just wrong because you say so (like you did in response to Endo looking at the research you referenced without actually reading it).

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rodeje25 wrote:Why does feminism exist i mean for centuries men where knights worked in mines made steel and did other hard work. And in video games and in back alleys we could get some pleasure and relaxs. But we started to misuse the woman who gave us pleasure and they arose but instead of wanting to bring this pleasure thing down and have woman do hard stuff an stressing stuff as well suddenly video games have to change because they contain sexy woman. Seriously. This makes it look like woman can't stand that they aren't as beautifull as the woman displayed as pixels and light. What do you want to do feminist? Change video games so men run naked and get raped by woman wo are OP and have cool suits and weapons. I think they need to stop targetin video games and do things in the real world and leave te pixel world alone. That is mostly our territory and you better keep your hands of it or we will bite!

What a load of bullshit!

They want to have similar identification figures as males have right now, in real life and in entertainment. You said it yourself. Women are displayed as beautiful, sexy and essentially as side characters. What's so bad about wanting to have strong female characters? What's so bad about showing a game's story from a female perspective.
The stuff you just wrote makes it sound like games are only there for men to relax after a long day at work in the mines.

Honest question: did come up with that on your own or did you copy it from some website? I really didn't think you were that ignorant.

rodeje25 wrote:Why does feminism exist i mean for centuries men where knights worked in mines made steel and did other hard work.

Because women were told they don't need to read, or think, or do science.
Because women made and programmed the computers during WW2.
Because gender stereotypes are harmful the same way racial stereotypes are harmful - they affect people's opinions, which affect your daily life in dozens of tiny little ways.

Any way, do you even know what I want, as a feminist? Now, you might not agree with all of it, but I'm sure there's some thing you can agree with. For example:

I want to have female soldiers who are just as tough as men. Just like in XCOM.

I want to have games where emotional connections are a big thing. Like in The Last of Us, where the story is about a dad and his daughter, adopted or not.

I want to have games where female armor doesn't mean bikini with spikes.

I want to have female characters who are drawn to be powerful, not to be eyecandy. Yotu might remember how Sejuani, from League of Legends, the Barbarian Warrior from the frozen tundra, was originally drawn in a leather bikini. In a snowstorm. Wut?

I can still enjoy games that do not have things in the way I wish they had things. However, if I don't like something, I'll mention it. I might complain. Maybe someone will listen. Maybe these things will change, or some future games will change.

When I make my own games, I will take these things into consideration. I did this endless runner (it ended up not being released when we ran into technical problems), and the character was only seen from first-person view. The first set of hands I modeled were female. In the end we didn't have time to implement alternative characters, but if we had, I'd have modeled male characters too.

That's what I do. I do a female character first, a male character second. Someone else could flip a coin to decide. Someone else would choose to do the male character first. Is that bad?

All the time you spend on this is 100% wasted time of your life. You should have a more meaningful activity to replace it and make yourself useful, I suggest eating pussy. :*

Regarding games and sexism. As long as the target group of 95% of the products are sexually frustrated teenage boys and repressed manchildren, those games won't get much better just by adressing the sexism. Where trash is craved, trash will be produced. And I honestly don't care much if the industry keeps secreting that slime, but it'd be nice if they more frequently released products for less retarded audiences as well.

Using sexist slurs (manchildren) and ableist slurs (retarded) is kinda rude. Also, games aimed at men aren't trash. Trash would be worthless. Games, even the stereotypical ones, can be amazing. Bastion, for example, had a pretty sexist story even though it was otherwise above-average in writing.
It's still problematic, of course.

I also think sexual references are entirely out of place in a forum frequented by kids.

The weird thing is the userbase hasn't been 95% teenage boys for well over a decade at the least. The industry just hasn't reacted to it yet. I'm guessing it's finally become apparent, but we'll have to wait a few years to see what will come out of it.

EPR89 wrote:
Explain to me how this relates to what Endo said.
I mean, it's pretty obvious that the "quote" you wrote down is not actually a quote of something she said. You just wrote it to make her look bad. In case you didn't notice: that's pretty much the definition of libel.

He said it was libel, I made a joke about how feminists usually blow things out of proportion and accuse people of crimes for speaking out against them.
It was a joke, you dick.

That's not at all what he said.

No, it is. Either my paranoid eyes are fucking sick of these arguments and I simply want to look at porn and not get stabbed by my feminist friends (Attempts have been made), or he said he wants men to be the bottom bitches for once and women to take control.
I am not in favor of that, my balls are perfectly happy where they are.
(Before you ask, my balls have mini-brains. Evolution bitches.)

See, that's the problem. You can't read what people are writing without directly applying your own weird logic to it that dictates that anything that challenges your ideas is automatically wrong and stupid.

Like SJWs?

You always take the things we say further until they are something completely different we say. You always have to try and make them into something absurd because you obviously can't find proper arguments against them.

Weird because, I did.

Men doing something like sewing or showing emotions does not make them weak.

Never said so.

Strong female characters do not mean that gender roles should be swapped.

If women are so oppressed, yes it does.

All it means is that both genders should be portrayed in an equal way and in a more multi-faceted.

The exact OPPOSITE of feminism.

That way women can finally have characters they can look up to. They could play games without having to accept that they have been made for a male audience.

This proves my argument. Women want to invade everything that men do and take it over because muh equality.
God forbid we have past-times of our own that aren't letting our girlfriends shove dildos up our ass.

In case you haven't noticed, women have become an audience for different genre's than Barbie simulators.

No. They were never the target for any genre to begin with because women don't like technology.

What is so bad about designing games to account for that?

See above.

What Endo was saying was that feminism tries to challenge the existing gender roles as the are portrayed in the media because they are outdated.

No, because they don't suit them. I don't see Anita talking about games that are sexist towards men?
Actually, she said that's impossible. Sexism can only be against women.
I tried to apply logic, I apologize.

Emotions are not a sign of weakness.

Yes.

Beauty is not a sign of weakness,

Feminism says otherwise.

. Power is not necessarily expressed by the weight you can benchpress. A main character can just as well triumph because of his intellect.

LET LOOSE THE POINT AND CLICKS OF WAR!

And games are no longer just a male past-time.

Remember where I said that feminists are the Tyranids of male past times? My point exactly.
And games are dominantly male past-time. The only reason women are there is because of the reason above.

You're just going to say what you always say: that it's a non-issue (when it clearly isn't),

Yeah, it is. Name one reason why this is a pressing issue that we should deal with.
Ebola means NOTHING! Women are the true victims!

that feminists shouldn't force their views onto you (but you can force yours on anyone else),

Grayswandir - I'm not sure whether it'd be better to move this thread, or lock it.

Phoenix - you are insulting and embarrassing. You are literally saying feminists want to ban porn & sexually dominate men, destroy or ruin video games & want to play video games, you say women are already equal AND that "women don't like technology". How many impossibilities can you fit in a single post?

Phoenix - you are insulting and embarrassing. You are literally saying feminists want to ban porn & sexually dominate men, destroy or ruin video games & want to play video games, you say women are already equal AND that "women don't like technology". How many impossibilities can you fit in a single post?

You should lock it.
I'm being called ignorant for posting how i see feminism

rodeje25 wrote:I'm being called ignorant for posting how i see feminism

No, you are being called ignorant because you made a mistake, and didn't realize it. What you posted isn't the feminism that is studied and discussed in schools and universities. It is a rumour about what feminism is. That particular rumour is very common on the internet. that doesn't make it true.

If the only thing I know about, say, football (soccer, you yankees!) is that there's lots of hooligans who go to football matches to have an excuse to break things, I would be ignorant. If I said all football fans go around hitting people with baseball clubs, the tools used when playing football, it would be insulting and rude and ignorant. Even if someone agreed that football has a hooligan problem, talking about baseball bats and football fans is just factually wrong.

Now, a hooligan who was also a hooligan might have used a baseball bat, once. That's how rumours get started.

For example:

woman can't stand that they aren't as beautifull as the woman displayed as pixels

Feminists are angry at the way of thinking that says "I should be as beautiful as those pixels".

One of the stereotypes many feminists fight against is the "every woman has to be unnaturally beautiful" ideal. I mean, in games we have super-thin, huge-breasted elves with itty bitty combat bikinis and perfect hair and perfect makeup. It causes many women to feel imperfect, to dislike or even hate their bodies. Anorexy and bulimia are sicknesses caused, in part, by the demand that all women have to be thin.

You weren't totally wrong. Yes, many feminists don't like how all women in video games are perfectly beautiful women. But you got their reasons and motivations totally wrong. It's not because you meant to insult anyone, it's just that you did not know any better. That is called being ignorant. You didn't know.

Being ignorant doesn't make you a bad person. It just means that someone else thinks you don't know what feminism is.
I'm ignorant on many things.

Do you want to read about feminism, to study it? If not, that's fine.

However, if you don't want to study it but you do want to talk about it, you will make mistakes. People will point out those mistakes.

Trust me, if more men choose to free themselves from their egos, stopped being emotionally handicapped and pathetically obsessed about imaginary feminist conspiracies, no one would be happier than me. It's not that I wouldn't want some quality cock in my life, I just can't find it.

But for those who don't even try, there's no way to respect them, I just can't.

You worry about the precious few women who find it necessary to blow some steam in the process of freeing themselves from centuries of patriarchal bullshit, you're making it your problem when it isn't.

We're breaking our shackles, some sparks are gonna fly yeah big fucking deal, you should too. Stop wasting time, there is nothing to fear or rage against here except yourself.

Endoperez wrote:
Being ignorant doesn't make you a bad person. It just means that someone else thinks you don't know what feminism is.

he is actually right i guess. but reading what was being said here made me think that that was what feminism was all about. and yes the title of this topic is video games have been ruined forever...... agian. but i just had to read more about feminism before posting here.

Endoperez wrote:
Do you want to read about feminism, to study it? If not, that's fine.

However, if you don't want to study it but you do want to talk about it, you will make mistakes. People will point out those mistakes.

i did a read a bit on wikipedia about feminism yesterday and i do think there should be more equality (how could men think woman are different (they have different bodies, so what) so they have different rights and need to do different things and have a different place in society).
i think i'm just gonna follow this argument a bit more and say something here and there. please correct me if i'm wrong! because when i was being called ignorant made me feel a totally bad person

Endoperez wrote:Being ignorant doesn't make you a bad person.

and i didn't knew why. So if you correct me when i'm wrong please explain it a bit to me.

rodeje25 wrote:
i did a read a bit on wikipedia about feminism yesterday and i do think there should be more equality (how could men think woman are different (they have different bodies, so what) so they have different rights and need to do different things and have a different place in society).
i think i'm just gonna follow this argument a bit more and say something here and there. please correct me if i'm wrong! because when i was being called ignorant made me feel a totally bad person

That is a bit vague. It's not something some men do. That would only be a problem for women around those people. Still bad, but small in scale. It's something all of society does in a small way. For example, if women are expected to not like technology, and that is repeated in school books, and barbie story books, and there are no woman hackers in movies and games, and a romance movie has a blonde woman meet her future husband when he fixes her computer because she has no idea, and there's jokes about women thinking CD drives are cup holders, and...

That combined effect is the problem. Men and women think women don't like doing computers and they'd be happier if they worked in social careers. That is the "women need to do different things and have different place in society". It should be okay and acceptable for a girl or a woman to like computers.

There's many things women "should" or "should not" like. Romantic movies, video games, shopping, reading, extreme sports, pretty clothes... Being a teacher, cleaner, nurse, hair stylist, cook, receptionist. Not being a sports coach, a doctor, a cab driver, a programmer, a drummer.
All women don't have to break the stereotypes, but if someone wants to, it shouldn't be met with "women can't!"

I'll have to admit I could be wrong too. This is what I think is important in feminism, others might think differently.