Well they are vocal and they are many, but the vast majority of Canadians either don't give a fuck or tell them to go fuck themselves. If travelling extensively and living in a number of different cities has taught me anything, it's that wilful stupidity and bigotry is pretty universal. The issues and the targets just change.

Either way, the popular support is for a secular reasonable government that passes secular reasonable laws regardless of one's own personal religious or moral convictions. So far, as much as I dislike the Conservative party, Harper hasn't done anything too stupid. He seems to know what he needs to do to maintain a majority. In doing so, he keeps the religious nutters hemmed in.

As Trudeau put it "there's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation."

I lived in PEI for about a year after I graduated from university. To my surprise, I met people my age who 1) were told that they weren't "allowed" to pursue an education off the island or they would have been "disowned" by their families, and 2) stories of very small communities in PEI that seem to be stuck in time warps--where girls are expected to pop out kids by 18, etc. Needless to say, I was only able to stand living there a year before I fled back to my native Nova Scotia.

You must live in BC or something. In Alberta, there's many. I've been fired for being gay, and now have to hide my sexuality on jobsites. Trust me, they're out there, they just don't wear Westboro Baptist signs.

For those who don't know french. Upper left: the Minister of Science and Technology is a creationist. Upper right: the Women's Affairs Minister is anti-abortionist. Bottom left: Canadian Heritage Minister doesn't know who Felix LeClerc is. Bottom right: Environment Minister is for the oils sands in Alberta.

[quote]they also are not taken seriously enough to have the political clout[/quote]

I wish this was the US response to a lot of these fringe crazies, but we live in a culture that loves talking about the extremists. They make for interesting television and we've completely blurred the line between politics and entertainment.

No. Its a land of candy and unicorns where every one is happy and no one is sad.. Of course there are bigots as there are every where and those bigots have a right to free speech that i would die to protect even if its something stupid. No where is perfect.. But Canada pretty fucking bad ass :)

Actually, in Canada, their free speech is much more limited than in the USA. For example, in Canada, they would be guilty of a crime if they "incid[ed] hatred against any identifiable group" (319 (1) of the criminal code".

"Generally speaking, these provisions prohibit licensees of radio and television programming undertakings and broadcasting distribution undertakings from broadcasting programs that contain false or misleading news. "

That's not a limiting of free speech. It's essentially a provision that relates to how a radio or TV channel advertises themselves. For example, in Canada if you call yourself "News" you need to abide by certain standards--such as not lying or intentionally deceiving.

In other words, if you wanted to create a program called "FreddyBeach News" in which you made up crap and told stories to manipulate your viewers, it wouldn't be allowed. However, you could call yourself "FreedyBeach TV" or something to that effect, as you would not longer be calling yourself "News".

What he means is that yes, we support gay marriage. The majority of us support gay marriage. It is a non-issue up here. We don't care who you marry, and it shouldn't be the government's place to care either. Pierre Trudeau said it best: "The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation."

He didn't intend "not care" to mean that we don't support gay rights. He meant that we are all tired of hearing about this issue when everyone should have just been able to marry anyone they goddamn want to a long time ago. It is a non-issue up here. We don't care, just as no one cares about who heterosexual couples want to marry. You want to marry someone born with brown hair? Great, go ahead and have wonderful brown haired children. You want to marry someone born gay? Fabulous, and we all hope you go on to raise wonderful, tolerant, and accepting members of Canadian society should you so choose.

I'm sorry. I should have clarified. It's not that we don't care so much as it is that gay marriange is just a fact of life now. Whether or not you agree with it, everyone has realized that it doesn't really affect their own lives enough to oppose it.

Edit: I personally believe that gay marriage is only made an issue by politicians that have a socially conservative base. Assuming you were some socially conservative evangelical marm from the South and gay marriage was passed in secret you probably wouldn't even encounter its effects given the crowd you hang out with.

If you've heard reports that there's a big reaction in France, these reports are misleading. The vast majority of people don't care at all (they care about the economy, austerity, taxes and so on), and, if pressed about 65% are in favor of equal marriage rights. Even most conservative politicians aren't opposed to it (they prefer to avoid the subject): one reason is that 14 years ago when civil unions were enacted (the "PACS"), some really homophobic slogans were used in the debate, public opinion was shocked and it gave the right wing a pretty bad image, they had to say mea culpa and now they don't want to go through that again.

A more contentious issue than marriage is that of equal adoption rights (which will be dealt with in the same bill): this is slightly less consensual in public opinion (a small majority or a large minority are in favor, depending on who asks), and it's easier for opponents to use the "think of the children" rhetoric (e.g., "every child deserves a father and a mother") and not seem too blatantly homophobic. Even on this, there are no significant demonstrations and I don't think there will be.

Also, since this is /r/atheism I should mention that nobody in France would dare use an argument like "the Bible says" (again, this was more or less done 14 years ago and caused an uproar). The Catholic Church took position against gay marriage and it led to some meta-debate about whether it was legitimate for them to say something in the matter; but even the Church did not quote scripture for fear of seeming too out-of-touch and homophobic: they preferred the "think of the children" line (along with its avatar, "families are essential").

A non issue? Maybe in major cities like Toronto or Vancouver, go out into the country and there is still lots of Smearing-The-Queer and Gaybashes. And you think the ultra-conservatives murdering their children for being "sluts" are cool with gay people? We had to start a national campaign because our gay teens are abused so much they kill themselves.

Let's not look at the country through rose tinted glass here because we're so used to "Oh America, if only you could be as progressive as us!", we have assholes like anywhere else

The reason why France is mentioned is because there is right now a new law being made to allow gay marriage, and there were some protestations (a minority of stubborn self-righteous citizens). This law should be passed (if everything works as planned) by mid-2013.

Well, as to the french women we saw, that's all that's left of the "conservative catholic stay at home moms" in here. now that they're child is gone, she has nothing to do but protest what her old book told her to protest (and probably because she wants grand children, so she wants to forbid her child from marrying the same sex, and all of that is an evil plot ? :P)

In a few years, all those close minded old "that's the way it used to be, no one ain't changing that" people will be dead/unable to speak up/will have seen the light of the true diversity and freedom, so i guess we'll be ok in a few ^

I can't speak about the USA but it does NOT provoke an huge reaction in France.
François Hollande has been elected president earlier this year with Gay Marriage as a part of his program.
Some people are strongly opposed to this, but they are just a very vocal ultra minority.

Were those the assholes with the giant dead fetus posters? They tried to accost me in downtown Winnipeg, and I just gave the guy a look of "if you step any closer I am going to break your fucking head open and consume its contents."

I run by there every working day at lunch. One thing that could be shown though is the christian idiots protesting abortion with their signs that say "Why must the child suffer" 2 blocks from there. I could take pictures at lunch and we could make fun of them?

Ya but that really was only 15000 people in april 2005, the Civil Marriage Act legalizing same sex marriage was signed into law in July 2005 and harper never even attempted to follow through on his threat

There is no doubt that Canada is more liberal than the US on average when it comes to same sex marriage, but each country has to deal with a fringe element. What IS amazing is the increasing divergence in the US.

I don't think education necessarily is the issue here. A school can teach you a great many things but being a decent human being is up to parents for the most part. We've allowed bigotry to masquerade as "religious freedom" for so long that we don't even realize what's really happening anymore. When someone says "I don't support same-sex marriage" there's not always someone willing or present to shout "FUCK YOU, YOU GODDAMN BIGOT" back at them. You can't publicly shame these people because it's "insensitive". Fuck trying to be constructive and opening a dialogue with these people. They're scum and no one even knows.

As a Canadian, it kind of drives me crazy when people try to use Canada as this shining example of tolerance and progressiveness. As other people have pointed out, our Prime Minister is kind of a dumbass who only continues to be reelected due to a split vote between the two liberal parties. The only reason Harper hasn't tried to mess with gay marriage is that he knows that that would cost him the next election. Senior citizens are basically the only people who vote for him (they're the only people who consistently vote period), but many of them have gay or questioning children or grandchildren, and the church's role isn't as strong here. They vote conservative because they've probably always voted conservative, but gay marriage is something that Canadians are, on the whole, pretty proud of. In that kind of "take that, America!" way.

That said, we have just as many assholes up here (well, fewer cause our population is smaller, but you know what I mean). I used to work with a guy who would call Middle Eastern people "turbanheads", and say that gay people were destroying our civilization from the inside. Sounds a lot like the American bigots people like to rag on here. We're lucky because Harper decided to shut his big mouth about gay marriage, but I guarantee you that if he started talking about it again, we'd have protests. Right now, people who don't agree with gay marriage are in the majority, but if they had a public figure campaigning for their cause, it'd happen. Don't write all of us off as perfect little angels.

our Prime Minister is kind of a dumbass who only continues to be reelected due to a split vote between the two liberal parties.

You mean a far left, socialist party and a centralist, economically conservative but socially more left leaning party? The NDP and Liberals are not "spliting" votes because the people that vote for the NDP most likely wouldn't vote for the Liberals and most people who vote Liberal wouldn't vote for the NDP. They are two vastly different parties.

So did liberals, for the exact same reason. The Liberal leadership was abysmal and the party was a mess. The more centrist Liberals switched to Conservative, and the more left Liberals switched to NDP.

So I'm out there shovelin at 7:30am thinking to myself "Why do I have to shovel all the snow? Because I'm the man? That's a bit of an unfair deal. It would be nice to not have to shovel all off it. Must be nice to have a husband who shovels the snow for..."

Not only Alberta voted Harper, otherwise we wouldn't hear about him. I know a good deal of people don't like him anymore than we do, but the fact is ROC voted Harper while Quebec voted NDP. Then (some of) you are criticizing us for wanting to get the fuck outta here. But that's a debate for another time.

If so, Rob Ford is (hopefully) teaching them the error of their ways. Then again, gaffe-free for how many days? Is he ill or in hiding? Also, most people didn't vote for Harper, but they split between Liberal/NDP in terms of not-Harper. For Americans confused by three parties, think 'blame Ralph Nader'.

Which means you don't see yourselves as Canadians. Lots of people across provinces don't like Harper. I don't and I am from Ontario. The province everyone hates more than Quebec. And don't act like the Bloc is any more grounded in reality. We gave you second language status and loads of military HQs, specifically the navy. Secondly, it makes little sense for colonists (who settled occupied land) to hold such stupid fucking grudges for so long. Quebec is not the real victim here. There was no invasion and there has been no true animosity. It has been a pretty diplomatic exchange for a long time and I believe a lot of the animosity is fueled by seperatist stories of the past (American south.)

I work in downtown Ottawa, and while I've never seen people protesting gay marriage, I have seen people protesting an abortion clinic many times. We might be a bit ahead of the game, but we're by no means perfect.

Uh, there were quite a few protests against gay marriage back when it was being tabled, and massive rallies against it on Parliament Hill. I was there, I counter-protested against them. Quite a few church groups were there, screeching about sin, soddom, how unnatural it is, etc.

The really SICK part? Those church groups actually bussed in AMERICAN church groups to protest in OUR fucking country. I stood toe to toe with some fucked up southern baptists (a black guy and his asian wife) screaming about how gay marriage was against god. It was bewildering to encounter that kind of bigotry from a couple who were obviously suffering from historical amnesia.

I live in Alberta, which is basically the Texas of Canada. A former male co-worker of mine married his boyfriend not too long ago. i don't know if they encountered any opposition, but i'm happy to say that in our organization there was nothing but support.

In many places in AB, there are progressive-minded people - like Calgary electing a gay muslim mayor. Sadly, it is the fundamentalist whackos and the hicks from the sticks who tend to be the most vocal - which is what continually gives Alberta a black eye.

That - and having people like Stephen Harper, Rob Anders, Danielle Smith, Ralph Klein, Tom Flanagan, etc. as the province's "representatives" doesn't help either...

Yeah, there were some protests just before the bill passed legalizing it, but that was about it. Then it passed and people stopped caring, if they ever did. Harper knows Canadians have zero interest in that debate again so he changed his tune and refuses to reopen it. Canada, and all the other countries where it is legal, have carried on much the same as we ever did. It is indeed fascinating to see American news and protests about gay marriage. Like peering into a religiously psychotic wonderland.

While it isn't directly related to /r/Atheism directly, the issue of gay marriage is brought on by religious zealots and as a general consensus atheists like the freedom of the rights of the individual that the religions are trying to suppress. Gay marriage is such a right so atheists will continue to fight for it until the religion is silenced on the issue permanently.

Atheism isn't defined by one set of beliefs. Atheism encompasses so much more than the fact that there is no god, or after life. Atheism is the unconditional acceptance that humans deserve basic rights. Gay marriage is such a right. This photo shows a human rights victory in a comedic way.

Of course it doesn't seem like it belongs here but because atheism hails human rights, this is just someone's way of saying "Look what basic human decency has done. Despite what anyone has said to the contrary or tried to stop. We gave these people the right to marry who they love, regardless of gender."

For that reason it belongs here because atheism isn't just about shunning religion. Its about basic human decency and the hailing of human rights victories and doing our best to fight against the crimes we see against them.

EDIT: I respect you for having an opinion against the mob. Have an upvote!

I actually have a ton of pictures from Capital Pride this summer if anybody was interested. There were two gentlemen there with signs claiming these were all signs of the end of days (and I think nazis riding dinosaurs, or something) and that the bible is the only salvation. I don't know if I have a picture of them, but they were kind of chill. One dude was from Ohio and seemed much more interested in telling me about FEMA concentration camps and muslims rather than preaching to me about sin. I think I can get used to those types...they're easier to ignore.

I've wanted to move to Canada for years now, it seems like a better place up there, less wacko Christians, gay marriage is a non-issue, universal healthcare, stable economy, and awesome accents. As a gay man It would be far easier to find a partner up there too. It's too hard here in "God's Country."

I'm sorry to say but we do have an accent, in so much as any english speaking person does (Think Aussie vs American vs British vs Newfoundlander). After working with people all over this world for a decent amount of time you start to recognize it. It has a lot to do with our use of a and o sounds. the whole "noo doot aboot it" thing is an exaggeration but basically true. You'll really hear the difference in that canadians will say a-boot where americans say a-bat

Agreed. And actually some Americans do just the opposite. If you ask them to say roof for example, they pronounce it more like ruff.

You can also ask many Americans to say 'water' and hear it as wah-der. Of course, a lot of Canadians say it that way too.

I was reminded of it again recently, when my aunt ordered a glass of water at a Chinese restaurant. She said "wahder", and the English accented waiter, said "A glass of water for you".

Waiter also gets the D sound.

Later another staff member checked on us. He is of Asian ancestry and said "Would you like some more wahder?". I knew then that he grew up in Canada.

The western provinces have an accent in common with the American Pacific northwest(and not much like Montana actually). Ontario and to some extent Manitoba share more in common with Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan. The Atlantic provinces are similar to Maine. Quebec of course, has its own sound.

Newfoundland is interesting because it is somewhat separate in its linguistic history, and the accent varies considerably, even from town to town. I've met newfies that were unintelligible to other newfies.

I'm from Newfoundland and I can confirm that. I'm from a suburb of the capital city where accents range from zero to moderate. Usually stronger in parents and grandparents. Also, we suburban Newfie kids often put on exaggerated Newfie accents / slang in an ironic, joking way. Occasionally you will meet people from rural towns, often cab drivers, whose extremely fast and dense local accents even I have difficulty understanding.

When I moved to the mainland, I discovered that I needed to 1) slow down my overall pace of speech and 2) stop interrupting everyone all the time, which is normal back home. Once a mainland girl I was dating was chewing me out for always interrupting her. I then interrupted her to defend myself .... and then realized what I'd just done.

Now, after many years on the mainland, I have almost no accent which leads people who find out where I'm from to loudly remark "But where's your accent??"

This is also a cosmetic choice on my part, as people usually regard the Newfie accent as something of a joke, or a trick to be performed to make them laugh. Once in Montreal, some horrible hipster chick laughed and needled me to "Talk like a Newfie!"

It's not the sexiest accent around. If I had a high British or Australian accent you could be damn sure I wouldn't water it down! So I have crafted a kind of "non-regional dialect", as in Anchorman, that works but to be honest has never felt quite right. To this day I'm unsure what my natural accent actually is.

It's just that you don't notice it because you're used to it. But you do say words like "about" and "house" differently. It doesn't sound like "aboot" like many Americans think it sounds more like "aboat" believe me I've studied your accent extensively by watching "Trailer Park boys" and some news on youtube. It's subtle but it's there.
I'm not talking shit, I love Canadian accents.

Your average Canadian does not sound like they do in Trailer Park Boys. That show takes place in Nova Scotia and has a very east coast accent

I always find it funny when someone is imitating a "Canadian" accent and it ALWAYS sounds very east coast. The majority of the population is in Ontario and we sound nothing like that.
It'd be like everyone in the US sounding like a redneck from the South.

Healthcare is a legitimate reason to move there, not really anything else. Their economy isn't exactly flourishing either (to be fair, the global economy as a whole is struggling), but you're dismissing an awful lot of the US based on a VERY small portion of idiots just because they get so much more coverage in the media. If you went by reddit, you'd think these people were everywhere. I live in NC and I never once saw any of them when they had the marriage amendment vote come up. The point is, each state is different. If you're not happy, find a state that supports your values. Several states have legalized gay marriage, and are basically state-sized Canadas, lots of northern states have stronger economies and are infinitely more liberal and you won't find anti-gay garbage there. Don't paint the entire US with the same brush. The states are vastly different. You can easily find one that reflects your values. Now if you want universal healthcare, then that's a legitimate reason to want to relocate to Canada, but any of the other stuff you listed, you can find it right here in the US. Don't dismiss the good states. Some of them are awesome. Think of them as miniature countries (although some are quite large relative to many European countries).

Yeah. Despite their massive amount of natural resources. The primary Canadian export is still social sanity. Well.... sanity in general actually. Thanks Canada. The US doesn't appreciate you enough. I shall send love waves and upvotes in your general direction.

It's true, in Canada we just call it marriage. Odd to think our neighbours to the south would be so up in arms over something so small when there are such bigger issues. Don't like to be too cocky sounding, but I am pretty darn proud to be Canadian.

This made me smile, I never understand why people make such a big deal out of gay marriage. If you are religious, isn't god the ultimate judgement of who gets into heaven or whatnot? So why do you care?

Im going to tell everyone the truth about Canada: its just like america. We arent especially polite and hardly anyone says "eh". Our summer can be ridiculously hot and we are not all riligious crazies.

But if you do it the other way around, like pointing out how many charities and good stuff religions do (which, by the way, is totally quite a lot compared to non-believer groups, at least in my country) suddenly it becomes a 'propaganda'.

It's a case of double standards. For a group of people who think they're more intellectually capable, it disgusts me whenever all I see here is bashing. I certainly remember the days when it's filled with discussions, and actually helped me cope with my unbelief within this nation of religious folks.

The smugness is only superficial and put on for the sake of Americans. If you're actually Canadian and in Canada you are legally required to complain about everything and specifically focus on how disappointing Canada is compared to every other nation.

Norway apparently has free post secondary, even for foreigners. If true, add this to the fact that it is goddamn beautiful, the place of my ancestral heritage, and that vikings are fucking awesome... I'm not going to lie. I would like to make an attempt to move there later in life.

Also, religion is a private matter there. People mostly keep their beliefs to themselves.

The worst is when people complain about the weather. I live in Winnipeg. It's the coldest major city ("major" defined by population size) on the planet, according to Environment Canada.

It gets brutally cold every year. There's no point in complaining. We all know -40C is around the corner, so bitching about it accomplishes nothing, yet it's like clockwork. Bitch, bitch, bitch. "If you hate the weather so much, why don't you move?" "Ah, you know, I guess it's not that bad..."