Fairy tales can have amazing moral content, think of the fairy tale of Ebenezer Scrooge and how it helped to reform Victorian England.
Fairy tales are woven into every tribe and nation of humanity any attempt to eliminate them would dehumanize us.
In his book ‘ Hard Times ‘ Charles Dickens shows how dangerous an obsession with facts can be in the character of Mr Gradgrind.

Quite wrong Jim what you should have said the in your opinion the Biblical fairy tales are true. Using the word religion does not confer truth to any story . Facts need interpretation in exactly the same way as fairy tales let me give you an example . The media report a Blackman robbing a store : I could interpret that to mean black men are robbers and white men are honest.

Kersten. I know you have a conversation going on with Jim, but I want to add my thoughts. I feel anyone who really thinks a human man walked on water needs to show proof that a human man can do so. I do not take a “an emotional feeling of belief” as evidence. I have never seen any evidence any of the physical natural laws of our reality can be broken or disregarded to do miracles. That is the way I view the reality we live in. Hugs

I agree but remember there are those who believe there are forces outside of our natural laws and the religious believe that the natural laws are upheld by a supernatural power that made the laws and can break them at will. It all boils down to what you believe .

No Kersten it doesn’t. I could believe all I wanted in flying pink unicorns but I couldn’t produce one. I am tired of people saying we have to respect people pretending something like rubbing dirt in someones eyes is a cure, that pretending hundreds of dead people rose from the graves, that someone turned water into wine and also fed thousands with 2 loaves and a fish. No I don’t have to respect that until they can show me how it is done. Not how they believe it, but show how it was able to break the natural laws of the universe. So until they can show a miracle, I don’t have to respect their belief in one. Religions do not get respect just for being a religion nor for just existing. They are a plague on mankind. Hugs

Fables and fair tales are one thing. No one runs around preaching about the three pigs or the red riding hood and wolf. No one comes to my door to preach the gospel of Hansel and Gretel. I am not asked to tithe to the lady of the lake. See I maybe used the wrong word, maybe I should have used myth or mythical. The fact is personal faith is built on internal feelings. Religion is an organized business designed to control the masses and to funnel money from the base to the upper levels of leadership. While personal faith can be either a good thing or a bad thing for the individual, religion is always a bad thing for the society as a whole. Hugs

You are right it is a force to stop us thinking for ourselves. It is a human characteristic we want some one Elsevier to do the thinking for us , we are happy to eat the meal but don’t want to do the washing up.
Society started by means of religion and it is in the history of every human civilisation. Initially it was an attempt to control nature , to bring the rain or sun on the crops , to eliminate enemies , to form the culture and life of the community. It also sought to guide our lives and tell us what we should do and what we should not do , but the enlightenment by slow degrees has enabled us to think for ourselves . We could not have got to where we are without religion or without war anymore than without science.

Kersten right from the start I disagree with your view / conclusion people want others to think for us. People have been conditioned to respond to people claiming authority. Yes if someone has knowledge gained through a life time of work and study in a field or have valid accreditation proving they have been in a course of learning about a subject we tend to listen to what they have to say. But just to follow any hair brained scheme from any bat shit crazy person, not so much. Yes there are some, and there are those not smart enough to keep from falling for a con job especially if it fits with what they want to or already do believe, such as racism and bigotry.

I disagree society started by means of religion. We were joining and leaving groups before we even had language more than points and grunts. Those groups gave us the bases for society and community. Religion came from a way to control the behavior of the masses by a small minority of elites. Think of the blasphemy laws. A lot of religions would sink fast if they did not have the protection of those laws.

The rest of what you say religion does is very true, my only disagreement is the idea that society was started due to religion. I also disagree entirely that we couldn’t have gotten where we are with out religion. I think just the huge number of religions and every con artist want to be in charge snake oil salesmen out there. No religion was used and developed as a tool to get more out of the masses with out having to really give them anything in return. It was and is a control mechanize, but it came after we already had developed communities and groups.

There isnt THE bibel. There are 99 Books called the bible. on bible is even written by Maria Magdalena. – So the bible business starts out with the lie of “the bible”. And the span, in which “the bible” was written, includes a thousand and many more years.
Well the best we could do is to make fun of all them fairy tails.

It’s nothing to be sad about Scottie most of human history has been spent in the dark and even now we only have semi-illumination , our job is to shine a little light without being too super-confident.

I think it is sad and horrible we have willful ignorance which the incorrect belief in the bible is with out errors clearly is. It is simply blinding ones self to the reality around us that we live in. I find it sad that anyone would do that to themselves or even worse do it to their children. Hugs

It’s not wilful ignorance and no one blinds themselves they simply hand over their minds and hearts to a particular belief even in the face of overwhelming evidence against such beliefs. This is not at all unusual in the human character as any one who surfs can see.
Already we can see that fundamentalism is on decline , many believers now accept evolution and some even the big bang.
So dire are the difficulties of Christianity that we have huge numbers of Christian Apologists with online sites.

Kresten you know about Matt Powell, the 22 / 23 year old young want to be Baptist preacher who honestly thinks that confederate soldiers shot down a Pterodactyl? He is a young earth creationist. He refuses to listen or even give any attention to nay thing that disagrees with his bible. HE went off about carbon dating, so several people tried to explain it to him, but he simply denied it all even after listening to them because of the bible. He agrees homosexuals and disobedient children should be killed because the bible says so. Yes children, because it is in the bible. I am nto going to list the stupid crap he comes out with but they are a mainstream part of his religion. Now why do I use him as willing ignorance example. He was homeschooled,a nd really indoctrinated until he got to college. He had to go to a college that is of his faith or he couldn’t pass any classes. He debates with a lot of people, he is on the web all the time, he knows about Dawkins, Stephen Hawking, and many more, he simply decides anything not agreeing with his religion is a lie. No matter the proof. That is willful ignorance and there are a ton of people like him. They deliberately blind themselves to what they could know. Look at the Mormons. Joseph Smith was a well know crook and con man. His history is clear and documented. But the Mormons refuse to believe it and say it is a conspiracy against them because it doesn’t agree with the holy wise man myth.

I would agree that while main stream religion is on the decline, fundamentalist hardcore religions are increasing. At least here in the USA and in Islamic countries.

There is a method called radicalisation whereby even an intelligent person can be brain- washed into any mind set . Such a person cannot be argued with or broken down by logic , words are wasted on them. At the moment in the UK the authorities are struggling with radicalisation and how to combat it , their main concern is violence , religious radicalisation goes below their radar. In theory any fixed viewpoint that is unable to change with evidence is a radical one and can be damaging . I expect you have read about how churches can split families and the more radical ones excommunicated those who break away. Of course politics can do the same in your civil war families split and fought on different sides. I think our friend Matt Powell comes under this category but as yet society has not found the answer but I do not believe confrontation achieves anything. Those of us who can put aside our customs and culture and embrace all members of the imperfect human family will lead the richest lives and be of the most benefit to others.

I can agree with you on most of what you said. I do hope you will watch the video I posted. Also look up the young man in question. He tries to come off as reasonable and make it seem that those who disagree with him are the unreasonable ones, but he admits he bases all his beliefs on the bible. He allows no human insight, morals, or agency to contradict the bible. When asked to justify the killing of children he says the bible says to do it, so it should be done. To me he is part of a dangerous growing movement int he USA.

Of topic. Watching the Kavanaugh hearing and boy that guy is not fit to be on a park bench much less a supreme court. Hugs

Yes thanks I will check out Mr Powell , I’m sure he is causing a stir. I have often engaged in friendly conversation with such types and found myself blocked , perhaps the kindest response was from a lady who told me I must stop philosophising and make a jump of faith.

It appears Mr Powell is a King James Onlyist an outlandish group who insist on the use of the King James 1611 version of the Bible.
There is a huge debate raging about versions and their accuracy , which proves the point if you believe the Bible is infallible why is it so dammed difficult to find consistency. I was also appalled by his views on disobedient children and homosexuals , in this respect he is little better than ISIS.

I agree. And his type of Christianity is growing here int he states. It scares me as it is a real threat. Here in this country they are a bigger threat to me and other gay people than is Islam. The reason is Islam doesn’t have the feeling of privilege that these fundamentalist groups do. Hugs

Regarding the Kavanaugh case, any debate as serious as this one about a man’s character who aspires to such a position should automatically disqualify him.
We cannot expect judges to be perfect and we all have a few skeletons in the cupboard but this is not comparable to him having had a smoke of cannabis in his youth.

I am a 57 year old gay man who has been very lucky in life. Life is an adventure and I live it that way. I am in a long term married relationship with a wonderful man I adore. We are in our 30th year together.

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