Any videos from NTRP (estimated or established) 2.5 to 3.0 rated players are welcomed. Videos from higher rated players are also welcomed in a relative instructional sense.

Comments and criticisms from knowledgeable TT posters welcomed.

This is meant to be a thread for USTA and other leagues' bottom dwellers. Those of us more or less severely competitively (and perhaps tennis fundamentally) challenged individuals who love the game in spite of our deficiencies and keep the faith that we might actually improve.

Post some videos (I'll be posting more because I just got a new camera), make some comments, have fun.

Thanks, this is very instructional.
EDIT: The thing is that the wall resources available to me provide less distance than those in the instructional video. Any suggestions?

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Well, you don't have to hit at a wall that's 40 feet away. My local wall has about 15-20 feet of space tops, and it helps me focus on control as opposed to ripping hard winners. There's a drill I do as well where I stand about 5 feet from the wall and alternate FH and BH volleys without letting the ball bounce.

Well, you don't have to hit at a wall that's 40 feet away. My local wall has about 15-20 feet of space tops, and it helps me focus on control as opposed to ripping hard winners. There's a drill I do as well where I stand about 5 feet from the wall and alternate FH and BH volleys without letting the ball bounce.

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Thanks Bowtiesarecool. I'm familiar with that drill. 40 years ago I could do it. Now ... not so easy.

Anyway, I posted the wall video only because that was all that was available to me at the time. All the courts were taken.

Hopefully tomorrow I'll get some on court time and videos.

And please, all posters, post some videos for positive criticism and/or examples of good stuff.

There's nothing wrong practicing against the wall. You can keep working on your shots, footwork and basically it's a great cardio work out if you really want. It's not the most ideal way but hey, even some pros do it, so it can't be that bad.

There's nothing wrong practicing against the wall. You can keep working on your shots, footwork and basically it's a great cardio work out if you really want. It's not the most ideal way but hey, even some pros do it, so it can't be that bad.

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I agree. It seemed to provide a good foundation for Borg and a few others. But I tend to be lazy on the wall. Come to think of it, I tend to be lazy on the court. Anyway, I'll get some videos of court play soon. Post some of your own. Thanks for the feedback.

I agree. It seemed to provide a good foundation for Borg and a few others. But I tend to be lazy on the wall. Come to think of it, I tend to be lazy on the court. Anyway, I'll get some videos of court play soon. Post some of your own. Thanks for the feedback.

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I wasn't sure about posting this but decided to post it anyway. The video is about 2 to 3 months old and I still play with my older style. I'm trying to make my forehand more compact.
Anyway, this is what I do if I can't find any partners.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWjLFvbzHs&feature=plcp

u move pretty fine for your age... BH swing path seems wrong .. it's neither a slice nor topspin drive.. if it's a slice then your not slicing the ball enough.. motion should be down to upwards.. which means point of contact starts from waist level...

thanks for the post, I can tell your forehand is your better side Im hoping to post some videos on here at some point for some pointers.

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i think that's normal.. most ppl dictate and generate more pace on their FH.. same goes for a big majority of atp pros..fh is definately their better side.. apparently it seems that quite a few wta women stronger side are their bh.. are women just better at bh than men?? lol

yeah was gonna say the wall is not a good way to look at NTRP levels. From this video you could be anything from a retired pro to a low level rec player.

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Yeah, to me you looked higher than 2.5. I thought your technique and specifically your stroke were better than 2.5. I' ve seen legit 2.5s with not nearly as refined a swing as yours. Perhaps mobility keeps you near a 2.5 (hard to say from vid) but not your stroke.

u move pretty fine for your age... BH swing path seems wrong .. it's neither a slice nor topspin drive.. if it's a slice then your not slicing the ball enough.. motion should be down to upwards.. which means point of contact starts from waist level...

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OK, this video may clarify a bit more, the way I hit the ball. (I'm closer to the camera) I said this before I'm an old school type of player and just trying to modernise my forehand. If my swing path is right or wrong I don't care, it works for me when I practice enough. My grips are forehand- eastern or SW, backhand- eastern, slice backhand- somewhere near continental.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGQw66fWRvQ&feature=plcp

OK, this video may clarify a bit more, the way I hit the ball. (I'm closer to the camera) I said this before I'm an old school type of player and just trying to modernise my forehand. If my swing path is right or wrong I don't care, it works for me when I practice enough. My grips are forehand- eastern or SW, backhand- eastern, slice backhand- somewhere near continental.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGQw66fWRvQ&feature=plcp

I wasn't sure about posting this but decided to post it anyway. The video is about 2 to 3 months old and I still play with my older style. I'm trying to make my forehand more compact.
Anyway, this is what I do if I can't find any partners.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWjLFvbzHs&feature=plcp

OK, this video may clarify a bit more, the way I hit the ball. (I'm closer to the camera) I said this before I'm an old school type of player and just trying to modernise my forehand. If my swing path is right or wrong I don't care, it works for me when I practice enough. My grips are forehand- eastern or SW, backhand- eastern, slice backhand- somewhere near continental.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGQw66fWRvQ&feature=plcp

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Thanks for posting vil. Nice fluid strokes imo. Very instructional for me. I would eventually like to closely approximate the way you hit the ball. Maybe that's not possible. But worth shooting for I think. Enjoyed your vids. How old and what NTRP competitive level are you?

u move pretty fine for your age... BH swing path seems wrong .. it's neither a slice nor topspin drive.. if it's a slice then your not slicing the ball enough.. motion should be down to upwards.. which means point of contact starts from waist level...

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I'll try to get some court play vids tonight. I probably have lots of fundamental flaws that I'm unaware of. Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, I use different grip for FH and BH. FH drive is an eastern grip more or less, I think. BH is continental more or less, I think. For BH drive I adjust or rotate (my grip) a little to the left ... so I guess that's sort of between a continental and a full western.

i think that's normal.. most ppl dictate and generate more pace on their FH.. same goes for a big majority of atp pros..fh is definately their better side.. apparently it seems that quite a few wta women stronger side are their bh.. are women just better at bh than men?? lol

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Ironically, my BH seems to me to be the more solid shot when hitting on court. That is, I miss fewer BHs than FHs. Usually I just slightly undercut it. So it tends to stay low and skid.

Yeah, to me you looked higher than 2.5. I thought your technique and specifically your stroke were better than 2.5. I' ve seen legit 2.5s with not nearly as refined a swing as yours. Perhaps mobility keeps you near a 2.5 (hard to say from vid) but not your stroke.

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Mobility and stamina are important factors in why I'm at a very low competitive level, but the more vids I make and watch, the more technical flaws I see as well. My long term goal is to improve enough to be competitive at 3.5.

Any videos from NTRP (estimated or established) 2.5 to 3.0 rated players are welcomed. Videos from higher rated players are also welcomed in a relative instructional sense.

Comments and criticisms from knowledgeable TT posters welcomed.

This is meant to be a thread for USTA and other leagues' bottom dwellers. Those of us more or less severely competitively (and perhaps tennis fundamentally) challenged individuals who love the game in spite of our deficiencies and keep the faith that we might actually improve.

Post some videos (I'll be posting more because I just got a new camera), make some comments, have fun.

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That's not a very good practice wall. It's too low, and it appears that the court is too shallow. You can't execute a full swing with the optimal height on that wall without the ball landing behind you.

I'll try to get some court play vids tonight. I probably have lots of fundamental flaws that I'm unaware of. Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, I use different grip for FH and BH. FH drive is an eastern grip more or less, I think. BH is continental more or less, I think. For BH drive I adjust or rotate (my grip) a little to the left ... so I guess that's sort of between a continental and a full western.

Ironically, my BH seems to me to be the more solid shot when hitting on court. That is, I miss fewer BHs than FHs. Usually I just slightly undercut it. So it tends to stay low and skid.

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sry i wasn't clear.. the motion down to up that is mention is for bh drive not slice

I'll try to get some court play vids tonight. I probably have lots of fundamental flaws that I'm unaware of. Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, I use different grip for FH and BH. FH drive is an eastern grip more or less, I think. BH is continental more or less, I think. For BH drive I adjust or rotate (my grip) a little to the left ... so I guess that's sort of between a continental and a full western.

Ironically, my BH seems to me to be the more solid shot when hitting on court. That is, I miss fewer BHs than FHs. Usually I just slightly undercut it. So it tends to stay low and skid.

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i suggest using eastern grip for bh drive not continental... unless your slicing..index knuckle on 1st bevet.. if it stays low and skid then it's a slice.. from what i see your bh strokes is kinda of a slice without sufficient slice action on it which means there's some drive action on it.. i think u should learn the proper techniques on both shots and not mix it up..there's many videos online for that.. compare both their slice stroke and bh topspin and u would be able to see what i mean

sry i wasn't clear.. the motion down to up that is mention is for bh drive not slice

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I understand. Part of the problem now is that I have an injured wrist. So, I'm hedging on certain strokes. Flat, slightly undercut or slice backhand isn't painful. Topspin backhand is painful for some reason that I don't know. Forehand is basically without pain ... it's just that I can't decide whether to hit old school more or less flat or more modern with topspin. Serve is still painful. Played tonight against a (estimated) 3.5 NTRP and lost 6-1, 6-4. Everything is an experiment at this point.

Would have some videos from the match tonight but got a 2GB (because it was a lot cheaper and also on sale) instead of the necessary 16GB SD card. Have to wait until the next social security check to upgrade. But just a couple of weeks.

Hoping that other 2.5 to 3.0 players will post their videos and comments here. Also, would like to see instructional videos and comments from more advanced players.

I don't use either eastern or continental for BH drive. It's rather more like something between a continental and a western forehand turned around for a backhand. Anyway, what it produces is a hard flat shot ... and it feels really good.

... i think u should learn the proper techniques on both shots and not mix it up..there's many videos online for that.. compare both their slice stroke and bh topspin and u would be able to see what i mean

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I agree that I should learn proper techniques. Easier said than done. But, yeah, that's the goal. Thanks much for your comments.

That's not a very good practice wall. It's too low, and it appears that the court is too shallow. You can't execute a full swing with the optimal height on that wall without the ball landing behind you.

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I respectfully disagree. I think it's an adequate practice wall for people with good technique. (Which, apparently, I'm lacking.) But, with that in mind, I have to agree that it might benefit me more if the distance between me, the hitter, and the wall was somewhat increased.

Regarding another issue. You gave me some good advice a while back on my serve. I've been experimenting with turning more sideways (which I think promotes some of the things you were talking about), and have been having very good results ... even with my injured wrist.

The hitting more sideways seems to impart more spin to the serve. Interestingly, it's also faster and more reliable (as long as I remember to actually keep my head up looking at the ball while I'm serving).

No reason to feel that way, imo. Your contributions are most appreciated. I like your strokes. Wish I could hit like you. Thanks for the feedback. Post more videos. Maybe us 2.5 to 3.0 players will learn something.

No reason to feel that way, imo. Your contributions are most appreciated. I like your strokes. Wish I could hit like you. Thanks for the feedback. Post more videos. Maybe us 2.5 to 3.0 players will learn something.

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Tom, thanks for kind words, I only play once a week these days so it's very hard for me to keep improving. This site is great, there's a lot of good coaches here with a lot of good advice. In my opinion, I think all you need is a good quality camera and post a video once in a while for some analysis.
Oh yeah, and just to answer your previous question, I'm 51 and I don't know anything about NTRP rating. It's a bit different here in Australia.

Letting the ball bounce twice kills the pace of the ball. The whole point of the wall is developing repeatable pace and control. By letting the ball bounce twice kills the pace of the "rally". Letting the ball bounce more than once is like dropping the ball at waist height and taking a swing. It's practically useless.

Put up a target? You dont need a "target" to hit at rofl.

1) If you hit the ball too high or two low you will kill the rally because the ball will have to bounce more than once.

2) If you hit the ball too wide you will be running back and forth like a madman and probably not be able to maintain a rally.

You pretty much have to hit a target by default if you want to rally with the wall. Unless... you're this guy and let the ball bounce twice and only hit forehands.

And OP (TomT) looks good for 2.5, but you might have problems finding a team that low. Theres no reason why you cant rate 2.5 though, but id count adult/senior leagues out in most places in the country because there wont be enough people. I wouldnt go higher than 3.0 though, unless you have more footage to show.

Good control over the wall as a "2.5". Most 2.5's will not be able to rally with the wall after the feed haha.

I agree, you don't need two bounces, however if you are beginer it may be perhaps beneficial to get the ball bounce twice in order to give you more time to set up. Once you become more consistent then let it bounce only once. Lot of people use old balls for hitting the wall 'cos that's the best way to finish them off but usually they don't bounce very well and this is where the problem is. You are basically forced to come closer but this will rush your shots...not a good option. If you step further, you have to hit either higher or let it bounce twice..again not the most ideal situation unless you are beginer. I find it best when I have new or good balls, standing further back and just keep hitting normal shots. Balls are still coming back with a lot of pace and you have a "reasonable" time to adjust your footwork.

Thanks to any posters I haven't replied to.
Below is a few minutes of video snippets of points from a match a while back.
It should be readily apparent which player is me.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz9l_ncBeYA&feature=plcp
(Note: video is best viewed in large player mode)

Obviously, everything needs lots of work. However, if I were to focus on the things that are most in need of immediate attention it would be, 1) movement and court position, and 2) footwork and racquet preparation.

Any comments and criticisms are welcomed. Also, more videos from similarly challenged as well as more advanced players.

Thanks for posting the match video. Much better for analyzing than hitting agains t a wall. You are absolutely correct on movement and court positioning. A couple of very simple suggestions: (I will leave the more techinical stuff to the coaches). There is nothing even remotely resembling a split step or even being "on your toes". You are completely flat footed, standing and waiting for the ball to come to you before moving. Easy concept to change. Second simple thing. When you serve in the deuce court you are standing way too far to the right or near the sideline. That would be about the place to stand if you were playing doubles. Standing there, you have too much ground to cover to the left.
Good luck with your tennis progress.

Thanks for posting the match video. Much better for analyzing than hitting agains t a wall. You are absolutely correct on movement and court positioning. A couple of very simple suggestions: (I will leave the more techinical stuff to the coaches). There is nothing even remotely resembling a split step or even being "on your toes". You are completely flat footed, standing and waiting for the ball to come to you before moving. Easy concept to change. Second simple thing. When you serve in the deuce court you are standing way too far to the right or near the sideline. That would be about the place to stand if you were playing doubles. Standing there, you have too much ground to cover to the left.
Good luck with your tennis progress.

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Thanks sonof tennis. Your suggestions are noted. I have a match this evening. Will get some video if possible.

1. Use your left hand better on forehand. On FH, keep it on racket until you start swing and then extend L arm out to side - sort of parallel with baseline. As you rotate upper bottom on FH, your left arm will pull back into your trunk and tuck beside your right hip.
2. Keep chest facing side fence on 1 HBH. You are rotating your shoulders a bit more than a 1 hander shoulder. Your chest should stay pointing to the side fence.
3. Keep you L arm back on your 1 hbh. Even pull back a bit as your racket arm goes foreward. You are letting the L arm go forward with the rotation at times. Using the left arm to pull back will also help with keeping chest toward side fence.

Have fun, keep practicing.

Do you know how to practice overheads on the wall? Drive the ball down so it strikes the court in front of the wall and the ball should bounce up hit the wall and then go high into the air and you can hit forehand and backhand overheads.

1. Use your left hand better on forehand. On FH, keep it on racket until you start swing and then extend L arm out to side - sort of parallel with baseline. As you rotate upper bottom on FH, your left arm will pull back into your trunk and tuck beside your right hip.
2. Keep chest facing side fence on 1 HBH. You are rotating your shoulders a bit more than a 1 hander shoulder. Your chest should stay pointing to the side fence.
3. Keep you L arm back on your 1 hbh. Even pull back a bit as your racket arm goes foreward. You are letting the L arm go forward with the rotation at times. Using the left arm to pull back will also help with keeping chest toward side fence.

Have fun, keep practicing.

Do you know how to practice overheads on the wall? Drive the ball down so it strikes the court in front of the wall and the ball should bounce up hit the wall and then go high into the air and you can hit forehand and backhand overheads.

This was after a match that my opponent won 10-7 (pro set). A few days later I lost a pro set to a 3.5 lady. Of course, I'm completely confident that I'm going to beat these players in our return matches.

Tom.. do u do consistent rallies down the middle with a partner? i do suggest that u do that if u d want to improve your strokes.. of cuz u need to know the technical aspects of the individual stokes to practice it... my point being dun do too much match-play do more consistent rallies maybe 1 set at the end of the session would be good

Tom.. do u do consistent rallies down the middle with a partner? i do suggest that u do that if u d want to improve your strokes.. of cuz u need to know the technical aspects of the individual stokes to practice it... my point being dun do too much match-play do more consistent rallies maybe 1 set at the end of the session would be good

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Good point(s) I think. Unfortuately, my two regular hitting partners are away from tennis for a while. I'm in a local league and most of my court time is spent in actual competition. The only recent rallying aimed at hitting consistently to a partner has been during warmups before matches, and sometimes after the match. Other than that my rallying practice has been limited to htting against the wall.

Below is another recent video of wall practice. In this one I'm trying to come over the ball with the backhand on as many shots as I can. After recording this I did another one where my racquet preparation is higher, earlier and more pronounced (on both backhand and forehand), and it resulted in better shotmaking. Unfortunately, the second video was really blurry for some reason that I'm still trying to figure out.

And OP (TomT) looks good for 2.5, but you might have problems finding a team that low. There's no reason why you cant rate 2.5 though, but id count adult/senior leagues out in most places in the country because there wont be enough people. I wouldnt go higher than 3.0 though, unless you have more footage to show.

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Thanks for the comments NTRPolice. Yeah, there's no USTA leagues around here that go as low as 3.0 as far as I have been able to find out. So, I'm currently in this TLN (see sig, tennisftlauderdale.com) flex league which has 17 guys and 2 women in the Fall Season (from 3.0 to 4.0). It's just getting started in Fort Lauderdale, and so far it's been very enjoyable for me ... even though I'm arguably the worst player.

BH looks like it has improved a little from last video.. u did hit a good top spin on your bh when the ball is in your strike zone but when the ball is low i realise u kinda hit a mix slice .. for low balls u have to bend your knee low so that your contact point will be low ...the key is to bend your knees much more..

BH looks like it has improved a little from last video.. u did hit a good top spin on your bh when the ball is in your strike zone but when the ball is low i realise u kinda hit a mix slice .. for low balls u have to bend your knee low so that your contact point will be low ...the key is to bend your knees much more..

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Thanks Sky_Boy. That low knee bending is difficult ... for me. Anyway, I don't see how anybody can hit over the ball when it's real low.

EDIT: A lot of the problem is due to sheer laziness on my part, I think. I'll make a video with more pronounced racquet preparation (describing a "C" instead of a "U"). Doing the "C" prep also seems to make me move my feet better. Is that possible?

Thanks Sky_Boy. That low knee bending is difficult ... for me. Anyway, I don't see how anybody can hit over the ball when it's real low.

EDIT: A lot of the problem is due to sheer laziness on my part, I think. I'll make a video with more pronounced racquet preparation (describing a "C" instead of a "U"). Doing the "C" prep also seems to make me move my feet better. Is that possible?

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For racquet preparation.. with both feet side by side at the ready position take left feet 1 step back directly behind right feet and there u have your body automatically turn side ways.. u can also take right feet 1 step directly infront of left feet and u get the same thing... swing path is to let racquet drop to low and hit it upwards and u have your top spin BH drive.. dun worry too much on racquet drop as long as u start from low and finish off high.. make sure the grip u use is correct..bevel 1 is the recommended grip or some call it eastern BH grip...

I understand that when contact point is high or very low it's diffcult to execute your BH.. it's easily to use to slice for those shots something i see u use for high balls which is correct...