10 Apr 2012

Under Rafa Benitez, Liverpool finished four points away from winning the title in 2009. A year later, the club had plummeted to 7th in the table and failed to qualify for the Champions League. Many fans blame reviled former owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett for Liverpool's overall demise in 2009-10, so considering Kenny Dalglish has the benefit of supportive owners and a stable boardroom, how does his first season in charge compare to Benitez's tumultuous final season?

Some things to consider:

* Benitez's final season was plagued with boardroom turmoil and spats with the Owners, some of which were, admittedly, caused by Benitez himself.

* Dalglish has been afforded every advantage a manager could ever desire since returning to Anfield.

* I don't personally agree that Hicks and Gillett were to blame for Liverpool's dramatic collapse in 2009-10; if you're going to blame them for that, then how can 2008-9 be explained? Surely, with such terrible owners, Liverpool should've had no chance of finishing second in the league?

Anyway:

KEY POINTS

* As regular readers will know, I am not a fan of Benitez's management style (!); however, the Spaniard outperformed Dalglish in almost every way: Superior home record; more goals scored overall; better points-per-game average; more clean sheets; higher league position etc.

* This was achieved despite a negative net spend for the previous two seasons.

* Benitez's team had extra European games to deal with; Dalglish has not had that tiring distraction.

* Liverpool are a staggering 36 points behind Man United at the moment; under Benitez, the difference was only 18 points at the same stage of the season.

* Dalglish's reign has been very expensive for Liverpool so far, with each league win costing over £10m, compared to £3.8m under Benitez.

* Dalglish has failed to win 66% of all league games, which is far worse than Benitez (50%), and is even worse than Graeme Souness's first season (60%)

Like Dalglish, Benitez is revered by a huge number of Liverpool fans, yet he was was sacked at the end of 2009-10 for doing far *better* in the league than Dalglish, despite spending signficantly *less* money.

With the above in mind, if things stay as they are in the league, is there a supportable argument for giving Dalglish another season? If there is, I would love to hear it!

I'm not for minute suggesting that it was wrong to get rid of Benitez in 2010 - I still think it was the right decision, but the club has clearly not handled manager recruitment very well since then.

When Benitez left, the club had already regressed in the league, and that regression has only intensified over the last 18 months.

Dalglish will be here next season due to the fact we lack leadership at the top. They won't have the conviction or b*lls to sack him. It's the correct course of action. He's been a disaster. He's getting deluded by the week and is now blaming referees and thinks there's a conspiracy. Paranoia is setting in and it's not pretty. His media relations are shocking, rude, abrasive and arrogant in the face of the tiniest bit of criticism. Signings, tactics,sub, motivation/communication and not forgetting how he handled the Suarez affair have all been woeful.... FSG made their bed, they won't have the foresight to get rid. We're stick with this inept manager for another season. No confidence at all about next season

A new manager with new ideas who isn't afraid to axe some of the under-performing players would suit me. Stats don't lie, Dalglish seems out of touch with the modern game, whoever is in charge next season has to bring in some fast wingers that can whip in a cross, otherwise we will have to continue passing around the edge of the area with no penetration.

"I don't personally agree that Hicks and Gillett were to blame for Liverpool's dramatic collapse in 2009-2010.... how can 2008-2009 be explained?"Our net expenditure over Benitez's last 2 seasons at Liverpool was roughly £0. By 2008-2009 Benitez had built a title challenging squad. Unfortunately he wasn't able to add to it and as other clubs moved forward Liverpool stayed still, on top of this there were some managerial faux pas like the selling of Alonso and recruitment of Aquilani, who although a good player was unable to help the club due to injury, which ultimately meant we regressed. In my opinion the main problem was a lack of investment in the club in those 2 years and that squarely lies at the feet of the owners.

Lets try and keep this simple. Hodgson was a poor appointment and not the man to lead us post Benitez. His buys were weak and his tactics were more ideal for a team avoiding relegation than a team pushing for top 4 or more. Kenny came in on a wave of legendary status which carried the club thru an outstanding 2nd half of last season. So where has it gone wrong since then? Lucas, Agger, Aurelio, Gerrard, Johnson and others have had some lengthy times out of the team thru injury. Daggy's summer buys have been a complete flop...as were Hodgsons. Two wasted years in the transfer market will set any team back. Sending Cole and Aquilani out on loan again was a mistake. But the main reason for me is the way the club handled the Suarez issue. The whole affair has put so much pressure on the team and Kenny and has made every little issue and poor result massively magnified by the press. Kenny's poor handling of the media doesnt help either. Maybe a change will be good for the club, but who do we get in. Mourinho??? Cant see it, Guardiola??? not in a million at the mo, it will be a make or break appointment. I like Brendan Rodgers, he has good footballing style and is young enough to have a dynasty at the club. There are probably others.....but most likely Kenny will be given another season on the back of his history (especially if he pulls off the cup double). Y.N.W.A.

You said it was the right decision to get rid of Benitez. It can only be the right decision if you have a better manager coming in. Who was better than Benitez at the time? For me, no one is better but let's look at people who are in his bracket (Managers who have won the Champions League AND Premier League in a major country)Guardiola - already taken. Del Bosque - already takenCapello - already takenVan Gaal - already takenMourinho - already takenFerguson - already takenAncerlotti - already taken Lippi - already takenRijkaard - already takenLet's just say for argument's take, none of these managers were taken. Why would any of them come to Liverpool? A club that had just finished 7th with owners who were not supportive and rivals who have far bigger transfer and wage budgets? To claim sacking Benitez was the right decision is clearly wrong. Not only are you getting rid of a club legend who overachieved season after season (who also understood the club and loved it deeply), you are bringing in someone who is not as good as him. Cracking idea.

Both managers have face similar problems in Liverpool. Rafa key moment was losing Alonso and paying for the ultimate price. Kenny was at this point is most probably Andy Carroll. Both managers bought injured player to replace another key player. Kenny should be given another season. LFC would not sack him but instead he might step down own his own accord end of season(if it were to happen). LFC will get better. Its been too many long years of having a bad patch. There will definitely be changes of player this summer (looking forward to this).But I would really love to see Kenny bring back Rafa this summer and two heads lead LFC together. You never know. Y.W.N.A.

Everybody loves to use this argument to justfiy the poor appointment of players and managers, happily ignoring the fact that manager's and players regularly join clubs in lesser situations than Liverpool's.

The common argument at the time was that Riijkaard, Deschamps & Pelligrini wouldn't consider Liverpool at the time. Two of those 3 did move, and does anybody want to try to convince themselves that they moved to bigger clubs than Liverpool??

Do you not think his point that officials should be held to account is fair and reasonable?Or are you just reading headlines, or lazily quoting articles to suit your point?However, I'm far from convinced with this managerial setup, and wouldn't be against a change at the end of the season, depending on the ownerships proposed plans. And I do agree that his media relations are generally shocking and embarrassing, nevermind the other obvious problems!

Do you not think his point about holding officials to account is reasonable?Or did you just read the headline?! Theres plenty of fair ways to critique Dalglish, misrepresenting him is needless!I personally wouldn't mind a change in managanement, depending on the plans of the ownership. I do also agree that his dealings with the media are generally embarrassing, thats without mentioning the more evident flaws with this current team.

100+ million spend and 12 games behind united (3rd of a season head start).....will we be able to spend big in summer with the financial fairplay kicks in? I called for rafas (how i regret that), gillet and hicks head but rafa would have spent most of that money alot better (lets buy a striker for 35m destroy his confidence and only play with 1 winger (again with no confidence) once you sign carroll surely the next thing would have been two pacey wingers who constantly feed the ball into the box. Lucas is down for the season yet no replacement in january, spearing is a grafter/dogged but not top ten class and our only replacement for injury prone agger is carragher (legend) but come on i'd rather have coates in to get used to premier league. suarez is doing far to much but is the only player who can actually go past a player and dalglish going on about the liverpool way yet handled suarez situatio badly then moaning about refs allday long and how tired ur players are wtf we are not in europe how is next year going to go when we are in europa league aswell

Don't be so sure John Henry is a ruthless sports owner.Ask anyone who saw what he did at Fenway Park.I think there is a problem in that not all the OLD GUARD under H&G are gone (Ian Ayre).I know from someone close to the club that he recommended DALGLISH to Tom Werner who recommended it to JW HENRY.Additionally he was a self confessed Nostalgic fan of Kenny and a 'friend'.

I think that Ian Ayre, Comolli and Dalglish could be for the Chop.FSG have learnt a lot since taking over from H&G, they will wield the axe make no mistake.

Notice how silent they are on KD future?Since Dalglish has been under pressuer for his Job no statements backing him ?

Personally U think Dalglish will be sacked but dressed up as he stepped down.Ian Ayre better watch his back as well FSG are not pleased with him either.

lucas - huge lossgerrard - still strugglingjohnson - our main attacking threatkelly - back upadam - hahahahahahahasuarez - hugebellamy - was signed to be a squad player yet he should be 1st name on sheet despite spending 100+ milion on other players (how is that right)

i never had a problem when Rafa been sack, My problem was his replacement. i know little about football overall manager, but i never wanted Hodgson as our manager. as someone said he's a manager for a club fighting regulation , not one for a club wanted to achieve top 4 or even better. Yeah Kenny came and had a great finish to last season. in the summer after hearing his choice of players, i was very much disappointed, he wanted to turn back the club to 1980"s Haven't work this season and won't work next either. he wasted a great deal for money because of bias toward British players. we need more than a legend we need a manager. i don't believe kenny can handle it. yeah rafa worse was much better than Kenny season.

well the season is coming to an end and the liverpool manager situation will no doubt go on, but while this happends les we forget the others in the league; man city spent a fortune, now another year without a trophy, CL football is worhtless to them as they are loaded anyway. chelsea may not even qualify for CL and we have seen tottenham plummett as fast as liverpool, even sunderland and martin oniel has been found wanting by everton. So now most are agreed that we need to go for another manager, who knows we may be competing with tottenham and man city for a new manager, definitely chelsea.Even if they dont qualifiy for the CL chelsea can offer riches and gold to any new manager so they will get anyone along with man city. If tottenham do qualify for CL and redknapp leaves for england then potential managers will go to them. So to sum up at the end of the season, man city, tottenham and chelsea may all need new managers!! i think your dreams of mourinho, rijkard, and anyother top manager will be going to them first and liverpool will end up like we where when we needed a manager on our last two occasions. remeber hodgson was the best available and KD was the only one availalbe. It may serioulsy come down at the end of the season to a frank choice of dalglish or the unknown or 4th pick of managers. maybe benitez may have his resurgence and homecoming, but i find it very un-likley with commolli being top of the tree, benitez would find that un-bearable!!!

IMO at least with dalglish he makes me belive that he will bring back glory days, if the above situation happends, it will almost signify that liverpool are down the pecking order, but it may also give some fans a sense of realism!

True, Benitez got the Champ League but he took over a club that was not in major turmoil. The core players were there. To be fair to Kenny, he took over at a time when things were chaotic and team confidence was at an all time low.

man city are 2nd and how many at liverpool would get into there team? suarez johnson skrtel reina (squad players at a push). Chelsea still have a better squad and a multi billionaire owner who will spend to get there club back. Tottenham are brilliant to watch and once redknapp situation is sorted then they'll be back.

everton above us, level on points with fulham and norwich and alot closer to bottom than top after 100+million the very worse we should be after that outlay is behind man u, man city, chelsea, arsenal

In my opinion Hicks & Gillette were certainly to blame.In 08-09 they had not been to charge long enough for their 'dealings' to have had any significant negative effect.Much of that squad and its funding was still in place from the previous regime.

The crux of our problem was their broken promise of not burdening our club with debt.As the club progressively got deeper into debt, promises made to Benitez regarding funding were broken and tensions escalated.Champions League revenue which Benitez generated was increasingly diverted towards debt repayment.As a result our progress stalled and the conflict with the ownerscaused Benitez to lose focus, and predictably, our results suffered.

Another blow for Hicks and Gillette was the Global Financial Crisis of 2008.They found it considerably harder to roll-over that debt in thefollowing years, and the terms they agreed to required higher interestrepayments.Again this was why they went back on their word to Benitez, as they needed the money for higher debt repayments.

As Benitez would not back down, parties within Liverpool conspired toget rid of him, and replace him with a 'Yes Man'.

give me my Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Luis Garcia and Stevie G as a 2nd Striker Give me Rafa. if we had a twelve game head start we would have to win them all to be level with man utds worst team for 10 years after 100+million, how does that work???

I didn't argue that Deschamps or Pelligrini were better than Benitez, as I never argued that I wanted either of them. Many others did though, and the argument against was always the same rubbish - why would they come to LFC blah blah blah

As for Rijkaard - if your argument against him is simply that he managed a dream team, then that just supports the argument that we should've been doing everything to get him in! HE built that dream team! Before he arrived Barca were in the doldrums, much the same as Liverpool. HE then went on to buy Ronaldinho, Eto'o et al and set the stage for Messi.

With the money that Daglish has wasted over the last year, Rijkaard could've revitalised Liverpool in much the same manner.

im worried about the financial fair play rules when our income is so far off uniteds...

rafa spent over 10 million on xabi alonso (sold for nearly 20m more) mascherano (sold for 12m more), torres (sold for nearly 30m more), keane (sold at about 3m loss), glen johnson (our best attacking threat bar suarez lol), Aqua (apparantly flopped yet has been loaned to juventus and milan while we have spearing, shelvey henderson who must be better???)and ryan babel (4m loss yet had a ton of talent but a bad/lazy attitude (collymore like)

dalglish well suarez (absolute quality but a distraction, nearly as bad as balotelli for that), downing well 10 milion to much, carroll great in the air but the service from the wings is none forth coming plus 20 million to much (llorente would cost the same but even he would struggle for service in our team), henderson (well 10m over spend but has potential i think/hope...passing slow, tackling hahaha shooting hahaha, crossing? hopefully it changes if he gets some confidence

As a big fan of Rafa Benitez, I can tell that I felt it was time for him to leave the club when he did. The atmosphere between him and the H&G and the board became too toxic, and there was a huge division between the fans, and the players, and the club looked literally like a sinking ship.

I am convinced, however, that Rafa, being away from the club and the job for almost 2 years, and having a possibility to study, analyse, make conclusions, etc., about himself, his own mistakes that he made aplenty, learn more things from the other managers' mistakes, could now be a better person and a better manager than he was in 2008/09.

And what is more important, he is a huge Liverpool fan and knows the club and everything that is related to the club, its philosophy and values.

Should Kenny Dalglish step down, I would say - give Rafa another chance, because he deserves to prove what he can do in a better environment.

Otherwise, I think Rafa should not be wasting his time and talent, but take over some club in Spain or wherever and prove his worth there.

I agree, but that was last year and Kenny fixed all the turmoil so this year was all set up for Kenny to have a great season with no European matches to worry about, but Kenny spent 100 million and made the team worse which I didn't think was even possible. I'm sure everyone will agree Benitez would've done great things with that money.

I have great respect for Rafa but I think he should never come back to LFC. May he find a job with Real Madrid or Barca or any other club but Liverpool. Kenny Dalglish must stay for another year at LFC and this summer he must make some major changes. Too many players have been around for a long time and it is time for them to go. Liverpool must bring at least 5 new strikers, perhaps just as many midfielders and defenders. They do not have to be $20 or $40 players. There is plenty of talent around Britain alone for around $5. The problem is that you have one man appointed to find talent and that is Damien Comolli. Yes, I know what everybody will say, it is Dalglish who has the final say but it is Comolli who picked Carroll and Henderson. In other words, what I am trying to say Comolli's position must be filled by at least 2 or 3 former LFC stars like John Aldridge or Robbie Fawler and have them decide and pick some good players. 3 brains make more than 1. Please, understand, any coach, including Mourinho will not be able to do much with the current players at LFC. So, please, give Dalglish a chance with the support of LFC former stars who feel for the club far more than Comolli to change things around. It is time to bring some fresh blood at LFC.

IMO and I am not sniping JK before we start..........This article is just about having a dig at KD. I have come to the conclusion that you and many of your contributors just want him gone. So lets say he is replaced in the summer and we bring in a new manager. I wouldnt support Mourhino or AVB but many of your contributors do. So lets say we appoint one of them and results are Hodgson Esq or Dalglish Esq (at least since christmas) would everyone then want to replace the manager again. Probably because many of your contributors just want instant win every week success which just is not going to happen (to any club or team). KD has made mistakes, tactically, transfer wise, and in his personal approach particularly over the Suarez incident. I think KD knows he has made those mistakes and he wants to put things right. I say despite your comparisons lets give dalglish until christmas and see where we are if there is no improvement then make a change

If we dont bring Rafa back next seaosnor bring in MARTIN Oniel, then we can as well write off next season, and i also will be taking a break as a supporter, i have been too loyal from 1988, its time the club showed us supporters some loyalty by bring in manager who can make us relevant again

p/s Love the article Jamie, i know u r not rafa's biggest fan, bt thanks for pointing out the facts!!!!

seeing how martin o'neill is a hit and miss, i'm not in favour of that, with aston villa he could beat arsenal for example and then get pumped 5-6 -0 with man utd, for me his teams are very inconsistent in the long run, i don't think he gets his tactics spot on all the time, sometimes he gets them very wrong, just look how sunderland is playing great in some games, in other they get trashed just like with everton. sorry martin definitely no for you

He didn't build the dream team. He was not in control of who came in and who left the club. The signing of Ronaldinho was actually a political one. Sandro Rosell signed Ronaldinho for Barcelona because Joan Laporta ran for president on the promise that David Beckham would be signed. When Beckham went to Real Madrid, Joan Laporta needed another player and Sandro Rossell really played up Ronaldinho as the man. The rest is history. The same is true for the rest of the signings, they are board level decisions -not something Rijkaard had control over. As for Messi, he was already at the club before Rijkaard joined.

Right JK I agree no individual is bigger than the club Dalglish should not be exempt but you didnt address the other part of my post about any incoming manager. We cant become a chelsea sacking managers every 6 months or 12 months every manager should at least be given 2 years. Hodgson was the exception rightly or wrongly.

I love kenny but he walked before and a two year old could have managed that team because it picked itself. He won league with blackburn when they were the nineties version of man city(loads money). Then got sacked at celtic and newcastle. In my view he has proved nothing as a genuine manager. Sorry kenny, bring back rafa

But they always end up higher than expected, he got to finals with Leicester, winning one, got Celtic close to beating the next year's European Champions in a UEFA Cup final. Not bad. With better players and better backing, he could do a great job, i think.

Given City won the FA Cup last season, I wouldn't say yet another season without a trophy. Though they have ben knocked out, they still technically the current FA Cup holders. Now the league title is something completely different...

Well Gerrard only played 3 or four games until January because he was injured, so that must count right? And Suarez got a 8 match ban (equivalent to 6-7 weeks), Adam is out for the season so that's some 10 games, Bellamy obviously has some undisclosed injury problems and that's why he only plays every other match (equivalent to 24 games?).

IMO all these players are

Get your facts straight boy! However as that may be there is no excuse for Liverpool suking ash right now and these problems are really minor compared to United injury problems this season (but that doesn't stop them winning). I guess liverpool are just to racist to play as a team....

Well Gerrard only played 3 or four games until January because he was injured, so that must count right? And Suarez got a 8 match ban (equivalent to 6-7 weeks), Adam is out for the season so that's some 10 games, Bellamy obviously has some undisclosed injury problems and that's why he only plays every other match (equivalent to 24 games?). IMO all these players, with lucas, are starting lineup players.

So, get your facts straight boy! However as that may be there is no excuse for Liverpool suking ash right now and these problems are really minor compared to United injury problems this season (but that doesn't stop them winning). I guess liverpool are just to racist to play as a team....

people forget that Aquilani was signed injured. People also forget that Torres and Gerrard got injured at separate times of the season, so they didn't play together as much. Add that to the fact we didn't sign any notable players to the squad with only one decent striker. Liverpool over-performed, maybe that is down to the mental strength of that team.

I saw where he was coming from with his latest interview of the refereeing. It effects Liverpool's game when so many bad calls get made, and when you see it also helping rivals and other teams it can have a mental effect (paranoia) on the team. Its hard to play competitively when these mental thoughts are lingering around, clarification from the FA would eradicate that instead of alienating themselves. That was what Dalglish was addressing. Some people seem to be really uneducated in dialogue analysis. They can only understand 3 word titles and go ranting and raving.

I would give Dalglish one more season, if he flops before the january transfer window get rid of him and bring in Rafa. That would be my ultimatum. I would like to give Dalglish one more crack at the pot but if he isn't up to it then that way there would be no regrets.

agree about Dalglsih and his media relations - for me he is an absolute tool; rude, arrogant and aggressive, no need for it. The way he dealt with the Suarez affair is not the Liverpool Way at all.

As fara as I am concerend he has disgraced himself and the Club and not fit to manage our great Club. if he has any honour he will stand down at the end of the season so we can see the back of this bitter, leaning forward Glaswegian