i have i seem to remember flat with a low gloss, they had all kinds of graffiti and illustration nods but came off more like an old master, but it was a long time ago, on some there are heads of kids on poles. i recall thinking it is what my hood will look like in the aftermath of the apocalypse.

Check out these photos of lightning and a rainbow that appeared today in "The Daily Mail" a Brit newspaper. Maybe Turner was more of a "realist" than we knew. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=395512&in_page_id=1770

i like his paintings, but i've sensed the hates for him by the billyburg hipster crowd. why? i dunno. i thought the show at AR was very excellent. nothing like it anywhere else. kind of anal, but super accomplished and original, at least to me.

There's a billyburg hipster crowd? Since when? (Seemed to me like everyone was too busy ripping at each others throats or sticking a knife in the backs of who ever looked away to get serious.) If there was one they ain't really into painting.

u no this shit gets the hate cuz of juxtapoze sensibility type stuff regardless of where nigel is actually coming from - hes a young artist with all the influences of the generation - and it shows, which is good.

sick ability to place the paint on, good show at AR!!! Really haven't seen any contemporary painters paint in this 'old masters' style the way he does. Its like he studied something no one else had access too??? If you look at his early work, its miles from this stuff, so something sparked in his hand! Though when you have a PHd in Art and been in britsh art schools for like 8 years, it probably gives you a lot of time to practice. Only thing i don't really like is the whole nod to art history etc....bullshit, when it comes down to it, badass paintings, but subject matter, no-one could give a fuck all outside the artworld! I'm curious to see where (if) he can take this approach, his new work looks like he is running out of ideas!

don't take it so literally, the point is (was), for me personally, no matter how good the painting is, if all its about is artworld rhetoric, history etc..... its old news, been done, boring and really, (maybe more artists should ask themselves this) do you really want to leave this world knowing you made a bunch of things about art and about the art-world (a self-obsessed world of nothing). Yeah, of course, the problem is, once your in this 'world', your objectives gear toward it and its hard to grasp that anyone outside of it will get it or even want too, but at least fucking try! He is way too talented to be making fucking art paintings....but hey, thats just my opinion!

im sure some kids would think this stuff is pretty cool, My mom would like this stuff too.. people that know nothing of the history.... she would say oh my god that is beautiful, look at that light, look at that rainbow... why don't you paint something like that or you should try just one at least.

Could somebody please tell me: what is a PhD in art? Isn't having to go to the fanciest MFA program you can get into bad enough? How much PhD business is out there and what is it composed of? Oh how wretched...I only hope it doesn't come to America if it's not here yet

Ok, fine, but it is totally possible to get grants to study here too, if you're good. Usually some kind of grant is even attached to the tuition of an MFA program, so the cost is not too extreme. I was just wondering about the actual phenomenon of the art PhD. Like, what is the point of it and how common is it and what does it entail. Is it being taken seriously, will it be the new terminal degree. Etc!

Ok, dude, obviously you don't know that much about the PhD in art thing. As far as the cost of MFA programs go, sure, they are really really expensive. Especially compared with, say, the price of an expensive piece of furniture or something. But from what I have seen the tuition cost of the MFA is less than the tuition cost of undergraduate college, and they really do give out money. So it winds up like 12 grand a year not counting expenses. So what. Maybe it's worth it in some mysterious way! And not every MFA program is in a "major city". Not even the very best ones! Richmond? Providence? New Haven? Not super major, chou. PhD information, anybody?

people that say mfa is a waste of time probably didn't get an mfa.. was undergrad in art a waste of time too? I've heard that as well.. How about ever picking up a brush in the first place? what a waste of time that was... everything is a waste of time that distracts one from breathing..

the $$ thing... I know someone that is doing their mfa at yale... got a full grant/scholarship for first semestar... they had to pay 2nd year in full and 1 year is something like 30 grand i think

How many artists that you like....have the self taught OR qualified... behind them? MFA etc. will give you a way of thinking.... but is that what you want? or will you then have to unlearn all that....

An MFA is different for everyone, duh -- even if you don't want to teach, duh. If the program is the right fit for a student, they can advance their art in one semester what it would take in 5 years on their own. You have round the clock feed back and if it's good and from good people you'll always be happy you went through with it. I went to a very inexpensive one and chose not to go to a $30,000 one on advice of a graduate of the program.

Of course there was no such thing at the time I went as getting dealers to come to your studio and giving you a show before graduating.

SCAB, some advice. If you really want to know about the PHD why not look up the school Cooke went to and see what the PHD entails? My guess is it involves more art historical research than MFAs require, but then I didn't use google to find that information because it doesn't interest me.

i am the only person on this whole board who thinks "cost" is a factor in education for the girth of the population ? - (if not just the cost of time to invest) or do we operate here like in school where talking about busness is a faux pas? - Artworld is set up for the privy club - which accounts for the high water mark in the gallerys right now? **cough* don't ask don't tell?

I have an MFA.What I mean is a lot of people buy into this whole thing. To many people want to be artist. Only 1% to 2% from any given program are doing art 5 years after they graduate. I'm just saying think real hard before you sign up for what is becoming a very expensive education.

The PHD is for teaching, what else would it be for? Why on earth would you do this? Grow up and kick the school habit and join the real world.

In this country we don't have a PHD in fine art, only art history and conservation, art therapy.

If the program is the right fit for a student, they can advance their art in one semester what it would take in 5 years on their own. You have round the clock feed back and if it's good and from good people you'll always be happy you went through with it.

What school did you go to?I have never heard of this, I went to a very good state school and this never happened. I know people who went to Yale, and BU, this does not happen.

You have crit days and then your supposed to be working. The painters in my program for the most part kept to themselves. Some of us talked about our and most where pretty stand offish.

As for the professors they where only in school 2 or 3 days a week and had other commitments, so this gain 5 years of growth thing, wtf are you talking about. There was no round the clock feedback. If you called up a professor at home it had better been about something urgent, like your studio burnt down and all your work was destroyed.

I wont talk about what kind of crap went on at BU or Yale but if you went to those schools you know.

Spending 120k on an art education is not the wisest thing to do.

I saw a lot of very untalented people(in undergrad) being lead along by the nose by professors who where told to keep these students in for their money. How do I know this, I worked in administration as part of my work study grant and over heard this very conversation.

Poppy you sound like your about 22 or 24 years old.

That's ok but as you move on through and get some distance with your education years you will see that it was very small time and that you learn more from years of doing your work.

Basquiat trained as a kid at the Brooklyn Museum but got his real "education" in the factory, Keith Haring dropped out of SVA but you can still see his style in the school and visa. versa, - he got his real education at Studio 64... much like my undergrad education the school of Disco school of Hard Knocks.

However that is the opposite of nyc now back then you could skip out of your loans and rent was cheap (amid the city was alot "tougher")

Painter Dog, I went to school in NYC and yes the profs had to go home at night, but the students were there. All but one of the profs were generous with their time and it's not too hard to see through any biases they might have. How many critiques do you have now that you're on your own? I only have a few a year and I like it like that. But paying for school and struggling like I chose to do -- I wanted to advance my art as much as possible in 2 years and taking people's advice knowing that I'd be on my own afterwards doesn't seem like such a bad thing.

Like I said, MFA's are different for everyone. Finding the one that fits you is difficult but not impossible.

Maybe I did it at the right time in my life, Painter Dog, but I would say more than 50% of the students in the program at the time I was in it would agree that progress on your own is much slower than it was when in school.

Dear Gazinia,thanks for the comments, I thought they were insightful! And I was more interested in the PhD as a freak occurance (since I had never heard of it) than as a real option for artists. I believe MFAs are enough. Did you go to Parsons?SCAB (the elder)

Wow, hate to be the jerky curmudgeon here but, this phenomenon of idealizing the “academy” is something that I find quite shocking, not that it’s bad, but it goes against every notion of the avant-garde that’s been expressed since the beginnings of “Modernism.”

This is interesting because in might be a harbinger of what could be called “the New Academicism,” some type of retro educational cult that requires the sublimation of individuality to the “school” with a hoped for elevation of ones artistic values, skills. knowledge, what?

Supposedly the Leipzig Schule has become the first true art movement of the 21st century, but they were isolated by the Iron Curtain for fifty years and avoided the contamination of the contemporary. Is this “Academicism” something more widely spread than this blog, a general attitude shift? Usually the “Academy” was associated with the death of originality and passion, as in “that’s academic.” Have the freewheeling ideas that represented much modernist thinking striped so much away from what was art that we now need to reestablish some enforced structure? Maybe this is just a skewed view due to the nature of the bloggers here but, for me it's an interesting question.

We all come from some where, but is this obsession with the BIG three or four “art schools” because you can actually learn something there that you couldn’t learn somewhere else, or is it a career move. God knows we’ve all read a thousand articles about dealers and curators trolling MFA shows etc. There is a cuisine to painting that makes it different from conceptual, performance, new media, et. al. but is all the hubbub making for better painting or just better business and gossip columns?

Should I join a club, get a tattoo that says “I survived 4 years at …….”?

I was about ten years older than my peers in grad school(30's). I learnt nothing(well I learnt a lot about post-modernism)and how to be political, the professors where there 2 days a week and we had access for one day which you had to sign up for.

We had a group crits once a month with a guest "artist" who was usally a friend of one of the profs, and it was and ego fest for them. After they would all go out and get drunk in the local bar with their favorite students and have a good ol time.

I learnt more about painting and print making at the Art Students League than at any other school, and they do not offer any degrees.

To be honest it seems to me that this a very american thing, thinking that one needs so much hand holding to be creative.( i know I will get a lot of flack for this comment but I think its true)

In Britian your more on your own in Grad school and most don't go, they do their under grad and they make or they don't.

The trolling thing should be stopped.Its desructive to the students and the learning process. You watch you will be seeing a host of Dana Schutz clones in the next few years coming out of Yale, Colombia...

no biting please,,paintdogtotally aware of all arguments for and against school etc..... Your earlier comment rubbed me a bit like ... screw the man, man ..education is for wankers dude! when i first enrolled in undergrad I would end up at parties with guys that would say that stuff.. what are you doing in school loser? just make art dude! anyways i plan on continuing doing what i'm doing regardless of continued school or not..as for the vanity fest and shoulder rubbing.. that is pretty hard to do on the east coast of canada.. It is basically just work your ass off minus the shmooze time. teachers never played you for your $$ either.. if you sucked you knew about it pretty quick.I apologize for sounding so young painter dog - any suggestions?

But all the same, wouldn't it be a lovely new trend if the young painters of Colombia became world-famous trendy painting stars! Latin America! Dear Poppy. You don't sound like a whippersnapper to me, just like a very thoughtful person. Probably certain older folks think you are babyish because you are not bitter.Salut!

me 2. I have read several conversations just liek this one, its pretty ubiquitous, people like to discuss it, I guess, I know I do, but where does that get you? Take over the system or don't. If you are, do it and then tell me what you did, and I'll be impressed. Wow, you did it.Good job soldier!

Columbia needs to get beeter talent - my point with RIT vs. MIT or CalTech - if you can go to MIT do you think you would? ANd if Columbia is committed to talent, dont you think they would recruit the best and brightest?

And who are the best and brightest? And where do they go, a long time passing?

pdognothing wrong with feeling that wayof course it is life and many people will do things for the wrong reasons.when i graduated, many many friends and acquaintances were tripping over each others dicks trying to get into the best grad schools... it was a funny race to watch. it was also a secret, no i won't tell you if or where i'm applying.. you might try to go there. alot of insecurities about the whole deal.and you are absolutely right, very few will be at this mess in a few years.i am definatley amazed at the so called amount of peeps thinking they will get into a wicked school and become an artstar.. Isn't the lottery more likely? Maybe i am naive

Painter , my experience of art education was quite similar..... teachers with very little to say and a huge interest in the pub! Feedback is vital but there are other ways to get it.... friends, exhibiton feedback, short courses with artists you respect! The piece of paper with the qualification is of huge interest to the Galleries....as a marketing tool!!

it's hard but possible, i moved 2 nyc with nothing and maintain a 'studio', supplies, (for me thats electric cable tv internet video projector laptop gas) living space and still make it to almost everything in the city, & work on my Art daily, as well as staying up to date with student, hospital loans you have to be a bit of a hussler & hussy. its been just over 4 years right now and i almost everyone i knew 4 years ago laughed about how i wasn't going to make it a day after school.

poppy, your in a common wealth country there is a huge differance - i know i took some film classes in Tornoto between degrees... that was my original point.

- do you think this Artist being able to spend so much time in school lends to the over all end all effect? has anyone else seen them in person?

Way back before the Jurassic period (pre-dinosaurs) I spent my most valuable time in the major museums of Europe (on Uncle Sam’s dime). When I realized that New York was the vortex of the art world I managed to get here. I did attend the ASL (on scholarship) but probably learned the most about technique while driving delivery truck for one of the city’s major art supply stores. Got to visit some super-star’s studios and ask stupid questions first hand. Also got to see the business side of things, who was or wasn’t a good tipper, bounced checks, treated their help like shit! Fun times.

nowhereman,I'm not sure what points either of us is trying to make...the school thing is an individual choice I'm neither for or against... I might still go.. It was in my plans to apply to places..I mentioned it was expensive to attend grad school in states - for no real reason except to tell someone it was expensive... If you attend grad school in Canada.. you could near go for free on scholorships.. Is an artist better if they go to school? I would never say or intend such a thing. Personally i would love to see how the ball rolls in NY

If you truely want to be a studio painter Artist i can't offer much advice and don't mean to sound like i am tryin to.

For me went on a school trip to NYC in undergrad and from the minute I got off the bus i knew i would do anything to live here my decisions as an Artist are decisions of survival. visit the city see if you feel it, drop me a line when you do i would be happy to take you around the gallerys

I had $300 left over after I rented my loft. Bullshitted famous slumlord Josh Gutman into renting to me by pretending to be a trustfunder and giving him the # for safe deposit at Shawmut bank knowing nobody would pick up. Those days are over though. New York is expensive. Hunter is like $4000 and the students stretch it out for 4 years for the studio space.

Well it's a state school. I think it sort of makes sense. Anyway I'm friends with some of the students. It seems like a friendlier atmosphere than some programs. Some of the faculty are well known artists.

Dear Rainbow and Skull,Grad school is very interesting for people who want to take part in it, like our Poppy. It in some ways has an iron grip on the collective imagination of artists, since such a lot of power comes out of institutions right now (and traditionally). Donc, not boring. PS your name sounds just like a secret society...are you one?!?!Dear Poppy,Are you Poppy the girl like a flower, or Poppy the man like a dad? Doesn't matter I guess. Have you thought about NSCAD? Also be warned Hunter is very hard to get into, it's as hard or harder than Yale.

Oh yeah Poppy, I second Kalm James's comments about seeing real artists' studios. When I was at school I was able to get a lot of studio assistant jobs through my professors -- 3 of them with famous artists. That was a real learning experience and came with an agreement of silence about all the things I saw and overheard. I guess it's the equivalent of an internship in another field. But I would say NYC is the place for those kind of opportunities.