I don't know when our society got so screwed up that any criticism is taken as a personal insult. I rather blame that whole "self-esteem-first" generation. (student: "2+2=5" Teacher: "You really did work hard on that one! Well done" Me: "WTF? The answer is WRONG!")

As for the "try harder" bit: You don't think that during halftime the coaches tell the team to "try harder" to score more goals? You don't think the lieutenant tells the platoon under fire to "try harder" to break out? You don't think a mom teaching her daughter to cook says "try harder" when the cake burns? You don't think a dad says "try harder" when his son says he's tired of practise pitches? It's encouragement, not "give up and lose/die/starve/quit you sad little excuse of a team/soldier/daughter/son".

When *I* was told to "try harder" I started spending more time in the dictionaries and grammars until I got it down. I didn't tell my teacher he was being a tool.

Tony
(edited cause those $@! smilies show up where they're not supposed to)

Last edited by AJBryant on Sat 01.07.2006 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

AJBryant wrote:I don't know when our society got so screwed up that any criticism is taken as a personal insult. I rather blame that whole "self-esteem-first" generation. (student: "2+2=5" Teacher: "You really did work hard on that one! Well done" Me: "WTF? The answer is WRONG!")

As for the "try harder" bit: You don't think that during halftime the coaches tell the team to "try harder" to score more goals? You don't think the lieutenant tells the platoon under fire to "try harder" to break out? You don't think a mom teaching her daughter to cook says "try harder" when the cake burns? You don't think a dad says "try harder" when his son says he's tired of practise pitches? It's encouragement, not "give up and lose/die/starve/quit you sad little excuse of a team/soldier/daughter/son".

When *I* was told to "try harder" I started spending more time in the dictionaries and grammars until I got it down. I didn't tell my teacher he was being a tool.

Tony(edited cause those $@! smilies show up where they're not supposed to)

I see your point Tony, but some people take corrections and critics very near.

You know there IkimashoZ, you do realize that you’ve really made a piss poor environment on this forum (and your own) to discuses your work all because of a few little comments that you didn’t want to hear. I’ve been sitting back watching this whole stupid thing go by, and after having a look at your site today, it was disappointing to see you moaning about how Harisenbon and Tony are out there just to trash your work on your forum over there as well.

If you really want to talk about your work here, I’m sorry, but learn to take a little bit of criticism, even if it may not be what you want to hear. Making a big scene here has just made it more difficult for others like myself to come and join in on the conversation as any little comment they make could just start the whole thing over again.

Anyway, onto the part here where I’ll probably get labeled as some elitist out there trying to trash your work, but here it goes anyway…

創る is used for divine creation, 作る is used in the general sense, and 造る implies the creater was involved mentally in the creation process.

You might want to research things there a bit more and provide a better explanation. As Harisenbon said, you’ve got people coming to your site to learn, make sure what you’ve got there is correct and concise. Since I’m so nice, and don’t mind working a bit harder, I’ll even do the research for ya…

それはおまえに神（かみ）となってもらうために！！！That [top.] you [dir.] god [clause] becoming recieve[inf. pres. pos.] for [dir.]As for that, it is for the purpose of recieving the becoming of god from you. There was some confusion as to why なってもらう uses と on the rest of the clause, but in my opinion this is only to avoid confusion with the に that indicates who the "giver" of the recieved matter is. If the sentence read おまえに神になってもらう, it might be unclear what's becoming and who's giving. Other opinions and translations are, of course, welcome. "So that you can grant me the power of god!"

I think you’ve got things mixed up there a bit. She’s not granting powers to anyone, she’s the one who’s going to be turned into a god, that's why he brought her there.

（人）に〜してもらう = have someone do

Also, 〜となる and 〜になる generally hold the same meaning, only real difference is that 〜となる sounds a bit stiffer, you generally see it a lot in books.

Well, there ya go for now. I might try to go back through and take a more in depth look at things some other time, but seeing as how I’m heading back to Japan here for a few weeks come this Thursday, it’ll probably be after that, well, that is if you even want me to.

Anyway, onto the part here where I’ll probably get labeled as some elitist out there trying to trash your work, but here it goes anyway…

If you would like to start a discussion about actual grammar points that I have misunderstood or incorrectly translated, I am very open to discussion and would very much like to hear your input on these things. However, I will not tolerate accusations that my way of thinking and methodology of my site are wrong on the basis that the accuser's way of thinking is the only right one.

I'm very appreciative that you took the time to post those definitions. When I originally wrote the line you quoted, I was citing from memory a conversation I had on a different forum about two months ago. That information should have been marked as possibly incorrect when I wrote it (since it obviously is).

You know there IkimashoZ, you do realize that you’ve really made a piss poor environment on this forum (and your own) to discuses your work all because of a few little comments that you didn’t want to hear.

I really do understand where you're coming from with this one. I think it's unfortunate that the first posts popped up here had to be inflammatory. However, I will not, in this public space or any other, be told that I am wrong "just because." I made it very clear in my very first post that my intent was to:

generate some discussion concerning the grammar [of the manga I posted]. I would also like to know what manga you're interested so I can go buy and read more interesting manga.

My intent was not to get told that I'm a "bad translator", which, while it may be true in terms of professional translation, is not relevant to my project or even this discussion thread.

I am really busy for the next week, but when I get the time to work on this project again, I will certainly be rewriting the portions of the text you have pointed out.

（人）に〜してもらう = have someone do

This isn't in either A Basic Dictionary of Japanese Grammar or its intermediate counterpart. This surprised me a lot. I found it on alc.co.jp. That's very interesting, and explains my original mistake. Thanks. I'd like to quote this on the site.

Also, 〜となる and 〜になる generally hold the same meaning, only real difference is that 〜となる sounds a bit stiffer, you generally see it a lot in books.

Great good to know. I'd like to quote this too. When I get the time. Which will be awhile for now. I'm very hopeful that this post will generate productive conversation. Thanks again!

Last edited by IkimashoZ on Sun 01.08.2006 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.