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I always feel a bit incredulous when people cite megaton and little lamplight as examples in a POSITIVE way, considering how specifically stupid and groan inducing both were. MEGATON EXISTS SUPPOSEDLY 200 YEARS AFTER THE BOMB.

Heres one, how do more kids end up in little lamplight TWO HUNDRED YEARS LATER.

The intelligence checks in dialogue in that game are somehow MORE idiotic than the normal (still idiotic) dialogue.

Unbelievable.

If you are at all educated it LITERALLY BOGGLES THE MIND.

It's difficult to take you SERIOUSLY when you state opinion as FACT and post in an OBNOXIOUS way.

People are allowed to like Fallout 3 more than NV. But having that opinion doesn't make Fallout 3 better than New Vegas.

Could you tell the silly goose that also MANY MANY people never even played fallout 1 and 2 and that NV 'feeling more like "real" fallout' means dick to anyone that came to the party with 3.

If you came to the party at 3, maybe get to know the guests already there, I'd like to introduce you to them, thier names are fallout 1, and fallout 2, and while fallout 3 is over drooling into his upturned dunce cap in the corner, they have some things called good writing, wit, verisimilitude and marginally well-thought out plotting to share with you. Please, let them.

You make me want to facepalm so hard my brain ejects itself through the wall behind me, into the fucking dimension buckaroo banzai drove his rocket car through.

Jesus Christ.

They were good games, but you couldn't play FO2 for 20 minutes without a god damned joke. FO1 was obnoxious with some annoying bugs at launch (a couple game breaking) and a terrible time limit system that hounded you.

They weren't perfect games. And they look like shit right now. Let them stay on the shelf in the hall of fame. Sacrificing virgins to it will not appease anyone.

The thing about Fallout 3 that makes it so damn interesting to me's not that it's not so much focused on the post-apocalyptic world, but rather on the pre-apocalyptic. Crawling through the ruins of Future Washington and taking in the sights, finding scraps of information about the last days, dealing with the autonomous and/or rogue relics of the American history and industry and military - yes, Fallout 3 hosed some stuff up and some worse than others, but considering how deep this field trip of Bizarro America goes I can't understand how people can be so vitriolic towards it.

Yeah, I rather liked the way Fallout 3 dug up America's past: it's like it was arguing that just as a person sees their life flash before their eyes when they die, so does a country cough up its sins and history at the end, too. Great stuff, and great use of the DC ruins as a setting.

Obsidian *deserves* FO4 for their brilliant work on New Vegas, Bethesda doesn't deserve shit.

Protip

TES > The "New" fallouts (3/NV)

Another pro tip - NV may not be better than FO3.

[INT 9] I SEE YOU ARE FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT WITH UR WORDS. DERF GONNA HERF.

I can't believe anyone, ever, in the world, actually believes what you typed. I mean, I know people do, because those silly geese are in this thread, but it's hard for me to actually believe humanity has fallen to the depths this opinion seems to belie.

Seriously, NV is better than fallout 3+DLC in every way. It builds an internally consistent world, interconnected with the GOOD fallout games (1/2) and heals every bit of bitter disappointment I had about fallout 3 (aside from the perspective, but hey FIRST PERSON IS THE FUTURE AMIRITE, NOT AT ALL OBNOXIOUS TO NAVIGATE A LABYRINTH OF A VAULT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.)

Bethesda did a terrible job with fallout lore(DERF HERF 200 YEARS LATER NARP, BROTHER HOOD OF STEEL HAS PALADINS, GOOD GUYS!!!! LULZ CANIBAL SUPER MUTANTS, EXPLODING CARS NARF) and I had all but written off the series, Obsidian made van buren mk II, and after making Bethesda's fallout wannabe game look so utterly stupid by comparison, in so many ways, I can't honestly believe anyone wouldn't want them making the future fallout games.

But hey, some people are silly geese WITH AWFUL TASTE.

The caps isn't exactly helping your argument. Not that's it a good argument anyway, but hey. You realise that Obsidian would never have made NV without Bethesda making FO3 the way they did? Say what you will about NV, but it's 90% FO3. Not that big a leap forward.

The time limit in Fallout made sense and is actually something that bothers me about RPGs today. Oh the Universe is being utterly destroyed? Don't mind me while I do nothing in particular while they apparently stand around doing nothing.

Fallout 2 and its endless silly encounters and similar bothers me no end though. Thankfully Fallout 3/NV decided that was just dumb and kept to more Fallout like levels.

Obsidian *deserves* FO4 for their brilliant work on New Vegas, Bethesda doesn't deserve shit.

Protip

TES > The "New" fallouts (3/NV)

Another pro tip - NV may not be better than FO3.

[INT 9] I SEE YOU ARE FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT WITH UR WORDS. DERF GONNA HERF.

I can't believe anyone, ever, in the world, actually believes what you typed. I mean, I know people do, because those silly geese are in this thread, but it's hard for me to actually believe humanity has fallen to the depths this opinion seems to belie.

Seriously, NV is better than fallout 3+DLC in every way. It builds an internally consistent world, interconnected with the GOOD fallout games (1/2) and heals every bit of bitter disappointment I had about fallout 3 (aside from the perspective, but hey FIRST PERSON IS THE FUTURE AMIRITE, NOT AT ALL OBNOXIOUS TO NAVIGATE A LABYRINTH OF A VAULT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.)

Bethesda did a terrible job with fallout lore(DERF HERF 200 YEARS LATER NARP, BROTHER HOOD OF STEEL HAS PALADINS, GOOD GUYS!!!! LULZ CANIBAL SUPER MUTANTS, EXPLODING CARS NARF) and I had all but written off the series, Obsidian made van buren mk II, and after making Bethesda's fallout wannabe game look so utterly stupid by comparison, in so many ways, I can't honestly believe anyone wouldn't want them making the future fallout games.

But hey, some people are silly geese WITH AWFUL TASTE.

The caps isn't exactly helping your argument. Not that's it a good argument anyway, but hey. You realise that Obsidian would never have made NV without Bethesda making FO3 the way they did? Say what you will about NV, but it's 90% FO3. Not that big a leap forward.

90% fallout 3 if you can't read and play the game for pew pew, yeah, perhaps. If you have a frame of reference that isn't [INT 9] I SEE YOU FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT WITH UR WORDS, it's not all that similar. But hey, nuance.

The thing about Fallout 3 that makes it so damn interesting to me's not that it's not so much focused on the post-apocalyptic world, but rather on the pre-apocalyptic. Crawling through the ruins of Future Washington and taking in the sights, finding scraps of information about the last days, dealing with the autonomous and/or rogue relics of the American history and industry and military - yes, Fallout 3 hosed some stuff up and some worse than others, but considering how deep this field trip of Bizarro America goes I can't understand how people can be so vitriolic towards it.

Yeah, I rather liked the way Fallout 3 dug up America's past: it's like it was arguing that just as a person sees their live flash before their eyes when they die, so does a country cough up its sins and history at the end, too. Great stuff, and great use of the DC ruins as a setting.

Much more interesting than "VEGAS WOOOO"

Not in any manner actually. What exactly did Fallout 3 go into that had any depth? Because I'm not seeing it in any manner. Fallout 3 has hurf derp story telling in that you can be at the end with a RADIATION IMMUNE companion and they won't go in instead because of "destiny" (or some idiotic shit). The DC ruins are the most obnoxious area ever: Endless blocked off corridor mazes with a subway system that is utterly identical. All to make navigation as difficult as possible. Not to mention a wasteland that feels extremely populated and not very dangerous at all.

The only thing I liked about Fallout 3 was the exploration and just how they had made the world overall. The storytelling and writing were not very good - stellar for a Bethsoft game though - but not good.

The time limit in Fallout made sense and is actually something that bothers me about RPGs today. Oh the Universe is being utterly destroyed? Don't mind me while I do nothing in particular while they apparently stand around doing nothing.

Fallout 2 and its endless silly encounters and similar bothers me no end though. Thankfully Fallout 3/NV decided that was just dumb and kept to more Fallout like levels.

Just because something makes sense doesn't mean it is good for a game. They have an option for the silliness in NV. A great idea. Dead Rising 2 has a time limit like the first. It makes sense for the setting of the game, but is still a bad idea in implementation. You force a player to move on, even if they are thoroughly enjoying it presently.
Fallout 1 was worse though. You had no idea (on your first few plays) of how much time you ultimately had. You'd end up playing 60 hours and learn that you lost the game. Next time, you might play 40 and still lose. It was a terrible design that punished a player for enjoying a world.

You can maintain tension and movement in the story without screwing the player over if they dawdle or savor the experience.

So far the entire concept of the Legion seems absolutely retarded. Why are they dressed like Roman soldiers? Im sure I will find out more eventually, but I also bet its still sort of silly.

Eh... it's actually the opposite, it's a well thought out idea but I cannot possibly explain this in english. They are simply a faction that differentiates itself from the others via the usual faction stuff: clothing, structure and the unusal but very often found in real life: language. Think of the language as a code that the enemies won't understand. Also Legion is basically dozens and dozens of different tribes gathered together and taught discipline and war tactics so they perform much better than when they were filthy tribals.

In fact in a post-apocalyptic world coming up with an idea of imperium based on ancient Rome is... damn good. Everything is broken, everything must be started from scratch so why not start from the very best of mankind history?

Actually Wild Wasteland really isn't that silly. To be perfectly honest I don't even get half the WW encounters except for the obvious ones (well Monty Python references anyway).

Dead Rising 2 has a time limit like the first. It makes sense for the setting of the game, but is still a bad idea in implementation.

It's not. In fact I love the Time Limit in both games, it makes them unique and makes decisions have a very real consequence. You can't just spend all day doing whatever you want because time will march on uncaring of you.

Fallout 1 was worse though. You had no idea (on your first few plays) of how much time you ultimately had.

I always feel a bit incredulous when people cite megaton and little lamplight as examples in a POSITIVE way, considering how specifically stupid and groan inducing both were. MEGATON EXISTS SUPPOSEDLY 200 YEARS AFTER THE BOMB.

Heres one, how do more kids end up in little lamplight TWO HUNDRED YEARS LATER.

The intelligence checks in dialogue in that game are somehow MORE idiotic than the normal (still idiotic) dialogue.

Unbelievable.

If you are at all educated it LITERALLY BOGGLES THE MIND.

It's difficult to take you SERIOUSLY when you state opinion as FACT and post in an OBNOXIOUS way.

People are allowed to like Fallout 3 more than NV. But having that opinion doesn't make Fallout 3 better than New Vegas.

Could you tell the silly goose that also MANY MANY people never even played fallout 1 and 2 and that NV 'feeling more like "real" fallout' means dick to anyone that came to the party with 3.

If you came to the party at 3, maybe get to know the guests already there, I'd like to introduce you to them, thier names are fallout 1, and fallout 2, and while fallout 3 is over drooling into his upturned dunce cap in the corner, they have some things called good writing, wit, verisimilitude and marginally well-thought out plotting to share with you. Please, let them.

You make me want to facepalm so hard my brain ejects itself through the wall behind me, into the fucking dimension buckaroo banzai drove his rocket car through.

Here's the issue with this, despite the good memories that you, and I, and most people who played Fallout 1 and 2, if you introduced them as they are to the generation of gamers who came up on the PS1 and newer, most of them are going to call F1 and F2 garbage. The new generation of gamers have been trained to expect gaming to be a certain way, and when games don't follow the current patterns set, they fail. The first two Fallout games have simply not aged well.

To stick with your analogy, while F3 may be wearing the dunce hat, the current gaming Gen would see Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 in the other corner, wearing adult diapers and rambling on about the good old days and how the kids should get off their lawn.

The only way for the current Gen of gamers to really get into the first two Fallout games would be if the games are remade. As it stands now, the original's gameplay is just too archaic for the current generation of gamers. Presentation and glitz is just too important these days.

The thing about Fallout 3 that makes it so damn interesting to me's not that it's not so much focused on the post-apocalyptic world, but rather on the pre-apocalyptic. Crawling through the ruins of Future Washington and taking in the sights, finding scraps of information about the last days, dealing with the autonomous and/or rogue relics of the American history and industry and military - yes, Fallout 3 hosed some stuff up and some worse than others, but considering how deep this field trip of Bizarro America goes I can't understand how people can be so vitriolic towards it.

Yeah, I rather liked the way Fallout 3 dug up America's past: it's like it was arguing that just as a person sees their live flash before their eyes when they die, so does a country cough up its sins and history at the end, too. Great stuff, and great use of the DC ruins as a setting.

Much more interesting than "VEGAS WOOOO"

Not in any manner actually. What exactly did Fallout 3 go into that had any depth? Because I'm not seeing it in any manner. Fallout 3 has hurf derp story telling in that you can be at the end with a RADIATION IMMUNE companion and they won't go in instead because of "destiny" (or some idiotic shit). The DC ruins are the most obnoxious area ever: Endless blocked off corridor mazes with a subway system that is utterly identical. All to make navigation as difficult as possible. Not to mention a wasteland that feels extremely populated and not very dangerous at all.

The only thing I liked about Fallout 3 was the exploration and just how they had made the world overall. The storytelling and writing were not very good - stellar for a Bethsoft game though - but not good.

I'm mainly talking about metaphoric use of the historic past: racist housing policies, slavery, civil war, etc etc. Should be pretty obvious, and it's not that subtle ("how in any manner" indeed, how on EARTH do you miss that), but it is an interesting metaphoric layer that's just not present in New Vegas.

So old school fallout types- how is the brotherhood portrayed in the older stuff? (( ie the comment was made they were goody two shoes in 3 ))

They still were pretty good, but with a critical detail.

THey protected technology. Not people.

THey literally would fuck everyone else over in order to get some amazing tech. For example, the aliens in the FO3 DLC? They would sell over the ENTIRE NCR just to get some good tech from them.

They were very much about the turtling though. They had their bunkers, but they didn't go much beyond them, frankly. Small expeditions to bring in more tech or parts, but that was it. They also didn't seem to develop much. I think the only countering idea was that one young squire made a hardening agent for powered armor in FO2.

So far the entire concept of the Legion seems absolutely retarded. Why are they dressed like Roman soldiers? Im sure I will find out more eventually, but I also bet its still sort of silly.

Eh... it's actually the opposite, it's a well thought out idea but I cannot possibly explain this in english. They are simply a faction that differentiates itself from the others via the usual faction stuff: clothing, structure and the unusal but very often found in real life: language. Think of the language as a code that the enemies won't understand. Also Legion is basically dozens and dozens of different tribes gathered together and taught discipline and war tactics so they perform much better than when they were filthy tribals.

In fact in a post-apocalyptic world coming up with an idea of imperium based on ancient Rome is... damn good. Everything is broken, everything must be started from scratch so why not start from the very best of mankind history?

The Legion and why they function as they do was surprisingly coherent for me.

At least you don't get to Caesar and have a wonderful "Intelligence" dialogue option like:

"Caesar, so we chose to dress and act as the ancient Roman Legionaries"

You: [Int] So you chose to dress up and act as the Ancient Roman Legionaries?

Something is kinda bugging me about this game that's preventing me from enjoying this game. Keep in mind that I absolutely LOVED FO3 - sunk probably 120-ish hours into the game.

Maybe because crafting got a little more complex so you really need to pick up EVERYTHING.

But if nothing else, it's probably because the game feels so EMPTY. Fort McCarran is basically barren (only one squad?!), and the Strip seems a lot smaller than I expected. Nothing like Rivet City or Megaton (or even the Citadel?) Not in terms of engagement, but in terms of density - those places seemed fuller than anywhere in New Vegas. But because I did one thing for the NCR one time, I guess I was able to skip all of Freeside?

Plus Boone is so overpowered that I rarely have to shoot my guns anymore.

For the record, I'm about 9-10 hours in and just made it to the strip. I really want to like this game, but the world hasn't sucked me in the way FO3 did - maybe it's because it's taking so long to get to the stakes (gambling pun!). Plus the engine is really showing its age.

As a disclaimer: I never played Fallout/FO2 - so the Southwest location doesn't have a lot of nostalgia for me - but clearly the game should be engaging regardless.

I'll keep plugging away at it, but for now I don't see me playing it that much in a month or two.

Actually Wild Wasteland really isn't that silly. To be perfectly honest I don't even get half the WW encounters except for the obvious ones (well Monty Python references anyway).

Dead Rising 2 has a time limit like the first. It makes sense for the setting of the game, but is still a bad idea in implementation.

It's not. In fact I love the Time Limit in both games, it makes them unique and makes decisions have a very real consequence. You can't just spend all day doing whatever you want because time will march on uncaring of you.

Fallout 1 was worse though. You had no idea (on your first few plays) of how much time you ultimately had.

The game tells you on the pip boy menu.

Not if you sent a water caravan to the Vault. Surprise, the Master is going to crush the Vault that much sooner!
Isn't this fun?!?

You also ignored my point on DR2. It isn't for everyone. You may like it, but many, many don't. They aren't making these games for the people that just bought FO1 and FO2. THey are making it for them and they people that got bored with Halo. The people that played Oblivion.

I don't feel the whole old-school vibe in NV a lot of people here are ranting about. I played FO1 and 2 back in the day and replayed em in 2008. Even did Tactics (totally underrated) and the abortion that was the PS2 FO (coop...misery loves company). NV just feels like FO3 with more talking, more quests, a relatively weak faction system and a lower number of interesting random places to accidentally wander in to. It's a great game, I just don't see the shift from FO3-r-dumbed-down-shite to NV-is-the-return-to-oldschool-glory.

Why oh why did they include Ancient Romans. It's like they can't help themselves.

Face it, all of these games have tons of stuff that's unrealistic or just silly. It's part of the fun. The only objective problem I've seen listed is bugs, and New Vegas, well...

What the fuck

there are no ancient romans

Unless you are talking about Caesers legion, if you are you should play the game and find the backstory before you start making stupid statements

I was responding to someone complaining about the vampires in FO3. There aren't any vampires in FO3, either, I was copying the way they complained about it. Maybe you should read the thread and find the backstory before making stupid statements.

I'm mainly talking about metaphoric use of the historic past: racist housing policies

The ghouls are hardly deep social commentary. Also you should bear in mind that if you allow the Ghouls into Tenpenny tower they massacre the inhabitants in there. Actually that was one of the best quests in Fallout 3, but not for the reason you think.

slavery

The thing that's been in every Fallout game?

Nothing particularly special here.

civil war

What Civil War? The only main engagement in the entire game is the supermutants in the DC metro fighting the Brotherhood of Steel (Then later the Enclave moving in, but they were in Fallout 2 as well). This is something NV does infinitely better than Fallout 3: There is an actual meaningful military conflict ongoing in the world.

Should be pretty obvious

It's really not, because these aspects you are vastly overselling to make your point while realizing the game doesn't support your opinion at all.

but it is an interesting metaphoric layer that's just not present in New Vegas.

The thing about Fallout 3 that makes it so damn interesting to me's not that it's not so much focused on the post-apocalyptic world, but rather on the pre-apocalyptic. Crawling through the ruins of Future Washington and taking in the sights, finding scraps of information about the last days, dealing with the autonomous and/or rogue relics of the American history and industry and military - yes, Fallout 3 hosed some stuff up and some worse than others, but considering how deep this field trip of Bizarro America goes I can't understand how people can be so vitriolic towards it.

Yeah, I rather liked the way Fallout 3 dug up America's past: it's like it was arguing that just as a person sees their life flash before their eyes when they die, so does a country cough up its sins and history at the end, too. Great stuff, and great use of the DC ruins as a setting.

I said I liked this exact aspect earlier in the thread.

I don't think it made up for the retarded main plot and general RIFTS-ness of the capital wasteland, or the [strike]ultramarines[/strike] Brotherhood of Steel vs. [strike]Orks[/strike] Super Mutants fight.

Actually Wild Wasteland really isn't that silly. To be perfectly honest I don't even get half the WW encounters except for the obvious ones (well Monty Python references anyway).

Dead Rising 2 has a time limit like the first. It makes sense for the setting of the game, but is still a bad idea in implementation.

It's not. In fact I love the Time Limit in both games, it makes them unique and makes decisions have a very real consequence. You can't just spend all day doing whatever you want because time will march on uncaring of you.

Fallout 1 was worse though. You had no idea (on your first few plays) of how much time you ultimately had.

The game tells you on the pip boy menu.

Not if you sent a water caravan to the Vault. Surprise, the Master is going to crush the Vault that much sooner!
Isn't this fun?!?

Oh noes, my actions have consequences and sometimes I can't tell what they will do before I do it!!!

yes, those things are in there, and it sets them apart from the slavery in the other Fallouts by putting them in the context of America's past through use of the DC ruin. The treatment of the ghouls is absolutely social commentary. (I know I'm just restating things, but really, how can you possibly argue that it isn't?)

Even if it makes 100% perfect sense to model yourself off the Roman Empire. Dressing your dudes up like them and hurling spears at me is just silly. Not saying I dont like it. But its just as silly as a cult founding a town near a bomb or whatnot.

yes, those things are in there, and it sets them apart from the slavery in the other Fallouts by putting them in the context of America's past through use of the DC ruin.

This is stretching on such a massive level. The setting does not suddenly make it social commentary or anything else more meaningful. Especially when they barely cover these things in an interesting or comprehensive manner. The only thing that would come close is the ghouls, which if you take as White/Black segregation then you realize the resolution of that is immensely racist in its statement.

Even if it makes 100% perfect sense to model yourself off the Roman Empire. Dressing your dudes up like them and hurling spears at me is just silly. Not saying I dont like it. But its just as silly as a cult founding a town near a bomb or whatnot.

They hurl spears at you because they are former tribal groups that have been crushed, subjugated and then forced to follow Caesar. It's one of their original weapons so why wouldn't they use what they are familiar with? Higher ranked Legion members rarely use weapons like spears, usually get them on their recruit - the people most likely to come from recently conquered tribes.

yes, those things are in there, and it sets them apart from the slavery in the other Fallouts by putting them in the context of America's past through use of the DC ruin.

This is stretching on such a massive level. The setting does not suddenly make it social commentary or anything else more meaningful. Especially when they barely cover these things in an interesting or comprehensive manner. The only thing that would come close is the ghouls, which if you take as White/Black segregation then you realize the resolution of that is immensely racist in its statement.

So old school fallout types- how is the brotherhood portrayed in the older stuff? (( ie the comment was made they were goody two shoes in 3 ))

They still were pretty good, but with a critical detail.

THey protected technology. Not people.

THey literally would fuck everyone else over in order to get some amazing tech. For example, the aliens in the FO3 DLC? They would sell over the ENTIRE NCR just to get some good tech from them.

They were very much about the turtling though. They had their bunkers, but they didn't go much beyond them, frankly. Small expeditions to bring in more tech or parts, but that was it. They also didn't seem to develop much. I think the only countering idea was that one young squire made a hardening agent for powered armor in FO2.

I'm not sure that's exactly true. It's been a whole since I played 1, but while they fancied themselves as having a Keeper of the Lore sort of position in the wastes and generally kept to themselves, I'm pretty certain they weren't overt dicks about it to the point of siezing other people's tech and the like. They were also pretty deep into R&D as well, since they had their own superior varient of Combat Armor and the Super Sledge is attributed to them, and if you talk to some of the techs at their bunker they talk about new weapon prototypes and the like.

I know their power was sort of waning in FO2, but the one dude of theirs you met didn't come off as a real prick, either. Makes me wonder what particular endings and what events behind the scenes took place that led to the real warhawks siezing control.