Question: what kind of DPS should I be actually be pushing with my gear?

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

Ofc we talking about heroic with numbers. You only need about 25k dps each for normal (even less in 10 men)

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

He's not talking about the numbers required, normal obviously requires less - he asked for a benchmark for where he's at, and whether they're pulling normal or Heroic, 35-37k is a good goal.DPS numbers will be ever so slighly less on Heroic simply because more people get Fading Light at a time, so there's more chances of you losing a gcd worth of damage, but it's not exactly massive.

But uh, if your entire dps team is basically 391-ish, 30k should be a minimum for Ultraxion, and if they're basically full 397's at this point, rocking 4-sets, trinkets and so on, 35k shouldn't be particularly hard to pull out for every single person.

Last edited by Darielle on Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, but if you're progressing on normal vs heroic, your expected gear level is different, thereby altering your dps goals. I can set my goal for 100k dps, but if it's not realistic based on the gear I have available to me, then it doesn't really make sense to do so.

He asked for his gear - that number was for his gear. I'm not sure where what you're saying is relevant to him.

But sidebar, there's a limited range within which you'd expect Ultraxion dps. 30k should be low end for anyone progressing on Ultraxion-N anyway simply because you're extremely, extremely unlikely to be trying to make progression on normal with a full set of 353's. Even "extremely unlucky" people are almost definitely rocking half-378 and half-397, with a scattering of 384's in there.

Darielle wrote:But sidebar, there's a limited range within which you'd expect Ultraxion dps. 30k should be low end for anyone progressing on Ultraxion-N anyway simply because you're extremely, extremely unlikely to be trying to make progression on normal with a full set of 353's. Even "extremely unlucky" people are almost definitely rocking half-378 and half-397, with a scattering of 384's in there.

These types of posts always highlight to me just how different this game is for the elite vs the average. I would set the "unacceptable" bar at 20k for our raids, get excited by anything over 25k, and don't think I have ever seen over 30k in a fight without a +damage buff/debuff. We were farming 6/7n FL pre-nerf and did a few 7/7n runs post-nerf, so everyone in mostly 378s with 2 or 4-piece set bonus.

Median raid kill dps for Ultraxion 10n is 190k (from WoL). If people are 2-healing and 2 tanks = 1 dps that's about 27k dps per player, so low-end for the average group would be low-to-mid 20s.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

Looks like Ayarea and Rove got off 2 and 7 more SW: Deaths respectively than you did which can be significant. Though it's hard to tell if Rove used it for mana as I'm not quite sure how he could be that much higher than you.

It also looks like Aya also has Tarecgosa, right? I only mention that because you were awfully close to Ayarea and that accounted for 620k where as you were only 200k behind. Although it appears that Aya doesn't have 4pc as their Shadowfiend looks to be benefiting from the 2pc Fireland bonus.

I'm not seeing DI on Rove, rather I'm seeing it on Ayarea. Am I reading it wrong?

Not seeing a whole lot of differences really once you strip out DI and Tarecgosa. You seem to be doing a better job "wiggling" between GCDs in trying to proc Shadowy Apparitions as you're far higher than the other two.

Probably a dumb question, but are you cancelling dispersion after you soak?

Well, I don't really know how to push my dps any further. I've been recasting DP/VT on any proc, clipping MF anytime i need to cast something, cancelling dispersion as soon as HoT hits, clicking HW at 1 sec left. Yet I still feel I'm underperforming, simcraft says I should be pushing 37k dps and i'm 2k behind somehow.

I mean, it's ok to be last as long as I know I'm doing my best dps and it's just gear that makes me lag behind, but I dislike underperforming.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

I've used 2nd pot on a Velocity proc, any better idea? (Bloodlust is casted at start)

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

My only other idea would be to use the potion on the 4pc cooldown burn the second time around. Quite possibly you can line that second burn up with a power torrent or lightweave, pop potion, and commence your burn phase. I don't know if that's optimal though, just trying to toss around some ideas.

I don't have a clue about Velocity honestly. My guess is that you'd need to see if you'd gain additional ticks for each DoT to see if it makes sense. Although at +2900 haste, my hunch says yes so it should be worth it but you'd need a Theorycrafter to confirm it.

Only other thing I picked up is refreshing DP twice through a proc. Once right at the beginning of the proc and then again right before it falls off. Given that it's higher DPET than MFlay, it becomes worthwhile due extending the length of the spell under the proc a bit. Also, gives you time to "wiggle" for more Shadowy Apparitions between the GCDs and which leads to more Shadowy Orbs for big Mind Blasts.

Worldie wrote:Well, I don't really know how to push my dps any further. I've been recasting DP/VT on any proc, clipping MF anytime i need to cast something, cancelling dispersion as soon as HoT hits, clicking HW at 1 sec left. Yet I still feel I'm underperforming, simcraft says I should be pushing 37k dps and i'm 2k behind somehow.

I mean, it's ok to be last as long as I know I'm doing my best dps and it's just gear that makes me lag behind, but I dislike underperforming.

In that log you're doing better than Ayarea if you eliminate DI (why it was on that player rather than Rove I'm unsure, a lot better if you discount Tarecgosa). For that particular fight I'd probably macro death into your heroic will keybind to squeeze out that extra instant when porting out (though that might conceivably be a dps loss if you have to use heroic will at just before 25%, and having multiple heroic will keybinds based on situation is probably counter-productive).

You're still not using any spike spam during fiends? Tried it and didn't get decent results, or? I'd use second pot on second fiend + arch -> spike/blast spam.

DP is almost always worth recasting on strong procs, VT is a lot more questionable. As a general rule I would not recast VT for anything but the strongest buffs (ie velocity, heroism, or if you have a non-empowered shadows buffed VT up).

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

This is something new I didn't know of, I'm gonna try it out asap. I suppose i hence combine always Archangel with SF?

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.