1 last comment. 2 guys are advancing , small space, no way to retreat ,after you told em no to the cash request. What would you do other than create space and prepare to draw?
To me it sounded like no other option other than possibly take your chances and get mugged, beated or killed.

June 16th, 2006, 01:17 AM

Witherspoon

If I had been the cop, I would have wanted to look into this further. A few pertinent questions to the two guys would have cleared it up or maybe pointed to something else, somewhere else.

June 16th, 2006, 02:08 AM

rimfiredude

sounds to me like the two guys didnt have good intentions. they ask for money and then are told he didnt have any cash. then they are moving towards him. they didnt call the cops after a man appearing to have a weapon tells them to leave the bathroom. i would have called the cops if i had been innocent wouldnt you?:blink:

June 16th, 2006, 06:11 AM

QKShooter

It's a tough call when two could easily go against one after a "request" for money and those "unknowns" are blocking the only EXIT to a highly confined &
"no witnesses" small space.
There is no 21' rule in most Public Mens Rooms.
I would consider it to be a success story since he is alive and well without a knife stuck into his ribcage & did not need to actually brandish a firearm but, allowed his actions to indicate that one was possibly available for immediate use if necessary.

June 16th, 2006, 08:24 AM

Weeg

The old "$$ for gas" is a common lead-in for punks...

Whether it's robbery, or other stuff...

Even when they do get $$, they are lying about what they want it for.

Case in point: Driving through Louisianna last year...Guys asks me for cash...I tell him: "sorry, I don't carry cash". He asks another guy, giving him some bull---- story about needing diesel for his truck. Needless to say, the other guy gave him $10, and I saw him go across the street to Popeye's chicken.

:rant:

June 16th, 2006, 05:15 PM

Miggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs

Ill ask here where is the articulatable threat to fear from thiese two ?

RR, so if the BG is mute but swinging a bat, you wouldn't feel threatened ?:danceban: :rofl:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs

You cannot draw down/menace on someone because they MAY commit a crime or MAY threaton you . .

I think it fits the Reasonable Fear Of Death or Great Bodily Harm Principle at least in Florida (IMVHO). Besides it goes against the Manlaws of Beahavior in the Bathroom:danceban:

June 16th, 2006, 08:47 PM

Redneck Repairs

Quote:

Besides it goes against the Manlaws of Beahavior in the Bathroom

If i am not mistaken i allready stated that is a road i didnt choose to go down LOL

June 16th, 2006, 09:15 PM

Miggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs

If i am not mistaken i allready stated that is a road i didnt choose to go down LOL

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: OK, Ok My mistake!

June 17th, 2006, 12:43 AM

MR D

just because your paranoid, doesn't mean that they are not out to get you......:hand10:

take away his ability to retreat by waiting between him and door....

the question that comes to mind is did he feel threatened with serious bodily harm?

we get to second guess, we didn't get to see their faces or other non-verbal communications either....

I'm happy I wasn't there and everybody went home ok

June 17th, 2006, 08:24 AM

ELCruisr

I don't know. If I follow the description of the actions to the letter it sure looks like he was being set up for a strong arm robbery. He did not actually draw but stopped short and was succesful at terminating a potential bad situation. Especially when you give a stop command and they keep coming. If they were on the level they would have at least stopped and asked why. I've learned that that funny feeling when the hairs on the back of my neck stand up is based on something. My concious brain just needs to catch up is all.

June 17th, 2006, 08:52 AM

QKShooter

My best guess is that (at the very least) it was an intimidation type robbery attempt.
Had he actually taken his wallet out to give them money there was a good chance that he could have lost his entire wallet or they would have demanded all his cash.

June 19th, 2006, 03:30 PM

Tom357

OK, RR. You haven't said what you would have done. You have been followed into the restroom by two large men. You can tell that they are still there when you finish your business in the stall. They are blocking your exit from the restroom when you leave the stall. They demand money. You refuse. They start to advance. You tell them to stop. They ignore your warning. I agree - no overt threat of robbery - they are just closing on you and a few feet away, now. You can't avoid them. What would you do?

June 19th, 2006, 04:12 PM

Redneck Repairs

I would politely ask them to step aside and let me out of the can . If they did anything except that I would step back to the door of the stall ( to limit the line of their approach as well as provide some cover from knife attack ) , draw my cell phone and Loudly tell them " I have a gun , either do your business or get the hell out of here. " . With anything but compliance at this point dial 911 and leave the line open , advising them ( like they cannot see ) that I have called the cops and to get the hell out of the can . If they continue approaching then is the time to present a firearm and if needed deafen myself. By now they have ignored no less than 3 requests to leave me alone , and 911 is recording what happens as well as any witnesses that heard the last couple of announcements that I yelled . Now I can articulate why I was in fear of gbi or death, and hopefully 911( or other customers/clerk on scene ) will pick up enough to bolster my account that I am not the aggressor .

Remember they can break this chain of events at any time by either leaving or taking an overt action , and also you asked for that long winded missave LOL

June 19th, 2006, 04:57 PM

Spectre

The OP used the appropriate amount of force for the situation. All the legal requirements were met. The OP's duty to retreat was met...there was no place to go. Percieved threat was present....2 vs. 1 = disparity of force. When told he had no money for them, the 2 guys advanced on the OP.

The only other option available was to wait and see what the two guys did to him (turn and use the urinals, get closer and ask for money again, or begin an assault). This is not acceptable! They were already too close to begin with. A BG can close a distance of 20 feet in just a second or two, which is quicker than some people can reliably draw and shoot, never mind how long it would take to fish out your cell phone and dial 911 (assuming you can get a signal).

Being too cautious and afraid of even putting your hand on your weapon could get you killed. Doing so in the right situation could save both YOUR life and the life of a potential attacker.