_________________If God isn't a Lions fan, then why is the sky Honolulu Blue?

September 2nd, 2013, 1:16 pm

sweetd20

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 amPosts: 2490

Re: Here's comes 'The Turk' 2013 edition

Tavarres King had a tough hill to climb with Welker, Decker, and Thomas ahead of him and was released by the Broncos. All the reports on him were that he was more prepared than most rookies usually are showing he had dedicated himself to the play book and soaking it in. I also read that he has looked explosive after the catch, he might be worth a flier at this point.

Ramses Barden is another guy I've been intrigued by but he just can't seem to put it all together. He could be a nice big WR compliment especially in the red zone. I really like the idea of King though, I think if Broyles can come back and stay healthy a trio of King, CJ, and Broyles could be a nice combo for the next few seasons.

September 2nd, 2013, 2:25 pm

Growler

Butkus Award Winner

Joined: April 8th, 2010, 3:24 pmPosts: 589

Re: Here's comes 'The Turk' 2013 edition

Are there any worthwhile free agent linebackers now that the cuts are done?

September 2nd, 2013, 7:20 pm

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5021Location: WSU

Re: Here's comes 'The Turk' 2013 edition

thelomasbrowns wrote:

Lewis got arrested in the offseason and then had the gall to show up to training camp out of shape. Guy just doesn't get it. Bad pick.

besides your statement i didnt read anything that indicated he was out of shape, if true makes the decision easy

i think the lewis cut is the one thats disappointing. 4th round pick from a year ago who they drafted for special teams and looked like he had some potential at DE. I think he ll catch on with a 3-4 team at some point. lions took a guy that they didnt even have a position for with a pick where lots of teams are still grabbing solid starters. jim schwartz even said as much after they took him. for what its worth i thought lewis had done enough to beat out willie young but that took into account young's salary and lewis' potential on special teams.

rao wrote:

The worse part about the loss of Lewis is he was finally showing potential and he's got a higher ceiling than Young. They just cut a 4th round pick from a year ago to keep a 7th rounder from 3 years ago that struggled badly as a starter. It's a terrible personnel move and given that Young is going to be a back up this year anyways it makes even less sense to keep the marginally better player with very little room for growth.

I want what some of you guys are smoking. Lewis has shown NOTHING as a DE, and was supposed to be a force for us on special teams and has been, instead, an even bigger disappointment in that department. While Young is older and had a poor season last year. However, he has much more impact as a pass rusher than Lewis. Special teamers can be had from other positions, such as linebacker and safety. The Lions don't rotate those positions during the game unless there's an injury. But for our defensive line, the coaches rotate them and we need pass rushers at DE, not guys who have the 'potential' to be a pass rusher because they are only 23. I'll take the 28 year old who can pressure the pocket over the guy who has consistently been a game day healthy scratch.

lewis was cut before the 4th game, up to that point i didnt see willie young do anything positive and i saw a lot of negative and a lot of stupidity. at his best he uses his speed and a bullrush to get occassional pressure. he s poor vs the run unless unblocked and he still has no semblance of passrush moves or short area agility. lewis plays with more power vs the run, runs equally well changes direction better gets paid about half and has 5 years of development left compared to young. go and smoke that bc willie young has done nothing in his career and the lions keep counting on him. when has young showed anything other than potential? the one sack 2 years ago vs tyron smith???

September 3rd, 2013, 12:00 am

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5021Location: WSU

Re: Here's comes 'The Turk' 2013 edition

rao wrote:

kdsberman wrote:

Unless its old news, I see Fuller, Greenwood, and Hepburn got cut. Not that Fuller was supposed to be a super critical part to this offense, but man...are we ever going to get a REAL #2 receiver?

As long as Broyles comes back from his ACL as good as he was before it he can be an effective number 2. They will still be missing a second deep threat, but I think CJ, Broyles and Bush could be an extremely effective trio with homerun potential on everyplay.

Also Amari was cut. There is one draft pick I'm happy to see cut finally.

i think the Lions are trying to sell that Patrick Edwards is the No 2 receiver. Broyles is a slot player.

September 3rd, 2013, 12:03 am

thelomasbrowns

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2871

Re: Here's comes 'The Turk' 2013 edition

The Legend wrote:

thelomasbrowns wrote:

Lewis got arrested in the offseason and then had the gall to show up to training camp out of shape. Guy just doesn't get it. Bad pick.

besides your statement i didnt read anything that indicated he was out of shape, if true makes the decision easy

Schwartz insinuated it a couple of times. This was the closest he got to directly addressing it: "This year with just where his conditioning was and things like that starting on the PUP. " Lewis came out and passed the conditioning test and then was out with a mysterious injury starting the day after. Same thing happened with Spievey his rookie season and that also turned out to be a conditioning issue.

_________________"Good teams don't worry about a whole lot of stuff. They travel, they play, they win. And it doesn't matter where they go, what the time block is, all those kinds of things. They never seem to bother teams that play well, and we want to be one of those teams." -Jim Caldwell

i think the lewis cut is the one thats disappointing. 4th round pick from a year ago who they drafted for special teams and looked like he had some potential at DE. I think he ll catch on with a 3-4 team at some point. lions took a guy that they didnt even have a position for with a pick where lots of teams are still grabbing solid starters. jim schwartz even said as much after they took him. for what its worth i thought lewis had done enough to beat out willie young but that took into account young's salary and lewis' potential on special teams.

rao wrote:

The worse part about the loss of Lewis is he was finally showing potential and he's got a higher ceiling than Young. They just cut a 4th round pick from a year ago to keep a 7th rounder from 3 years ago that struggled badly as a starter. It's a terrible personnel move and given that Young is going to be a back up this year anyways it makes even less sense to keep the marginally better player with very little room for growth.

I want what some of you guys are smoking. Lewis has shown NOTHING as a DE, and was supposed to be a force for us on special teams and has been, instead, an even bigger disappointment in that department. While Young is older and had a poor season last year. However, he has much more impact as a pass rusher than Lewis. Special teamers can be had from other positions, such as linebacker and safety. The Lions don't rotate those positions during the game unless there's an injury. But for our defensive line, the coaches rotate them and we need pass rushers at DE, not guys who have the 'potential' to be a pass rusher because they are only 23. I'll take the 28 year old who can pressure the pocket over the guy who has consistently been a game day healthy scratch.

lewis was cut before the 4th game, up to that point i didnt see willie young do anything positive and i saw a lot of negative and a lot of stupidity. at his best he uses his speed and a bullrush to get occassional pressure. he s poor vs the run unless unblocked and he still has no semblance of passrush moves or short area agility. lewis plays with more power vs the run, runs equally well changes direction better gets paid about half and has 5 years of development left compared to young. go and smoke that bc willie young has done nothing in his career and the lions keep counting on him. when has young showed anything other than potential? the one sack 2 years ago vs tyron smith???

Have to say I agree with M2K (although not the "what are you smoking" comment - IMO, it's a close call, I can see why people fall either side of the divide).

At this point I'm no fan of Young (after 2011, I thought he was panning out well and liked him - not so much now) - yes he's limited to pass rush and not much else, and he's hardly great at that. But on 3rd down, I'd rather see Young on the field than Lewis as I think he's better at rushing the passer. And for your last choice DE, that's probably enough to give one guy the nod over the other. Lewis may have higher upside, but from what I've seen that's marginal.

i think the lewis cut is the one thats disappointing. 4th round pick from a year ago who they drafted for special teams and looked like he had some potential at DE. I think he ll catch on with a 3-4 team at some point. lions took a guy that they didnt even have a position for with a pick where lots of teams are still grabbing solid starters. jim schwartz even said as much after they took him. for what its worth i thought lewis had done enough to beat out willie young but that took into account young's salary and lewis' potential on special teams.

rao wrote:

The worse part about the loss of Lewis is he was finally showing potential and he's got a higher ceiling than Young. They just cut a 4th round pick from a year ago to keep a 7th rounder from 3 years ago that struggled badly as a starter. It's a terrible personnel move and given that Young is going to be a back up this year anyways it makes even less sense to keep the marginally better player with very little room for growth.

I want what some of you guys are smoking. Lewis has shown NOTHING as a DE, and was supposed to be a force for us on special teams and has been, instead, an even bigger disappointment in that department. While Young is older and had a poor season last year. However, he has much more impact as a pass rusher than Lewis. Special teamers can be had from other positions, such as linebacker and safety. The Lions don't rotate those positions during the game unless there's an injury. But for our defensive line, the coaches rotate them and we need pass rushers at DE, not guys who have the 'potential' to be a pass rusher because they are only 23. I'll take the 28 year old who can pressure the pocket over the guy who has consistently been a game day healthy scratch.

lewis was cut before the 4th game, up to that point i didnt see willie young do anything positive and i saw a lot of negative and a lot of stupidity. at his best he uses his speed and a bullrush to get occassional pressure. he s poor vs the run unless unblocked and he still has no semblance of passrush moves or short area agility. lewis plays with more power vs the run, runs equally well changes direction better gets paid about half and has 5 years of development left compared to young. go and smoke that bc willie young has done nothing in his career and the lions keep counting on him. when has young showed anything other than potential? the one sack 2 years ago vs tyron smith???

Have to say I agree with M2K (although not the "what are you smoking" comment - IMO, it's a close call, I can see why people fall either side of the divide).

At this point I'm no fan of Young (after 2011, I thought he was panning out well and liked him - not so much now) - yes he's limited to pass rush and not much else, and he's hardly great at that. But on 3rd down, I'd rather see Young on the field than Lewis as I think he's better at rushing the passer. And for your last choice DE, that's probably enough to give one guy the nod over the other. Lewis may have higher upside, but from what I've seen that's marginal.

The upside for Lewis is much more than marginal compared to Young. Lewis is a better athlete in every conceivable way and Willie is completely maxed out physically. Lewis is just starting from a much lower floor than Young. I defended keeping Young over Lojack this season I don't dislike Young, but The Lions have Jones, Ziggy, Izzy, and Taylor with 3 of those guys all being better then Young right now and Taylor at least able to lock an edge while being a little disruptive in the pass game. They really have no need to even put Young out on the field. Cutting Young also would have given them just a little more cap space to roll over into next year with the Suh extension looming.

It's marginal because I don't see Lewis being a decent NFL player, tbh.

Yes, at this point in his career, Young is never getting better. But for me the max Lewis is getting better isn't much more than where Young is at now. I didn't see anything this pre-season to give me any hope for Lewis at all I'm afraid.

Frankly, I think we're arguing over who has the shiniest turd, though!

It's marginal because I don't see Lewis being a decent NFL player, tbh.

Yes, at this point in his career, Young is never getting better. But for me the max Lewis is getting better isn't much more than where Young is at now. I didn't see anything this pre-season to give me any hope for Lewis at all I'm afraid.

Frankly, I think we're arguing over who has the shiniest turd, though!

Haha, well that is par for the course when talking about the the Lions back-ups and some of the starters too.

September 3rd, 2013, 10:23 am

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5021Location: WSU

Re: Here's comes 'The Turk' 2013 edition

thelomasbrowns wrote:

The Legend wrote:

thelomasbrowns wrote:

Lewis got arrested in the offseason and then had the gall to show up to training camp out of shape. Guy just doesn't get it. Bad pick.

besides your statement i didnt read anything that indicated he was out of shape, if true makes the decision easy

Schwartz insinuated it a couple of times. This was the closest he got to directly addressing it: "This year with just where his conditioning was and things like that starting on the PUP. " Lewis came out and passed the conditioning test and then was out with a mysterious injury starting the day after. Same thing happened with Spievey his rookie season and that also turned out to be a conditioning issue.

good find

September 3rd, 2013, 2:25 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

i think the lewis cut is the one thats disappointing. 4th round pick from a year ago who they drafted for special teams and looked like he had some potential at DE. I think he ll catch on with a 3-4 team at some point. lions took a guy that they didnt even have a position for with a pick where lots of teams are still grabbing solid starters. jim schwartz even said as much after they took him. for what its worth i thought lewis had done enough to beat out willie young but that took into account young's salary and lewis' potential on special teams.

rao wrote:

The worse part about the loss of Lewis is he was finally showing potential and he's got a higher ceiling than Young. They just cut a 4th round pick from a year ago to keep a 7th rounder from 3 years ago that struggled badly as a starter. It's a terrible personnel move and given that Young is going to be a back up this year anyways it makes even less sense to keep the marginally better player with very little room for growth.

I want what some of you guys are smoking. Lewis has shown NOTHING as a DE, and was supposed to be a force for us on special teams and has been, instead, an even bigger disappointment in that department. While Young is older and had a poor season last year. However, he has much more impact as a pass rusher than Lewis. Special teamers can be had from other positions, such as linebacker and safety. The Lions don't rotate those positions during the game unless there's an injury. But for our defensive line, the coaches rotate them and we need pass rushers at DE, not guys who have the 'potential' to be a pass rusher because they are only 23. I'll take the 28 year old who can pressure the pocket over the guy who has consistently been a game day healthy scratch.

lewis was cut before the 4th game, up to that point i didnt see willie young do anything positive and i saw a lot of negative and a lot of stupidity. at his best he uses his speed and a bullrush to get occassional pressure. he s poor vs the run unless unblocked and he still has no semblance of passrush moves or short area agility. lewis plays with more power vs the run, runs equally well changes direction better gets paid about half and has 5 years of development left compared to young. go and smoke that bc willie young has done nothing in his career and the lions keep counting on him. when has young showed anything other than potential? the one sack 2 years ago vs tyron smith???

And what, pray tell, did Ronnell Lewis show at any time? What DE, outside of LoJack, have the Lions had on their roster these past four seasons that DID show anything against the run?

I'm sorry Legend, but I just don't see what you are seeing. You speak of all these things that Lewis was capable of, and I never saw it, not once, in a game situation. I saw Young getting pressure during games one and two of the pre-season. Barely heard Lewis' name called at all. I saw Willie Young get his arms up to cause QBs to throw at odd angles and not complete their intended passes. Never saw that with Lewis. Aside from all that, Young knows enough to pay attention in the class room and show up to camp in shape. I have heard reports are that Lewis didn't even know enough to do that. He showed up out of shape, and was not doing what he was supposed to on special teams, which was why he got yanked from them last season.

Sorry, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on this way. I was pretty happy when the Lions drafted both these guys where they did. But to me, Lewis was by far the bigger disappointment and the easier cut.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

September 3rd, 2013, 3:58 pm

njroar

Team MVP

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 amPosts: 3265

Re: Here's comes 'The Turk' 2013 edition

Preseason games are the most misunderstood aspect of the NFL and really confuse fans into seeing something that isn't there. The preseason is about evaluation on executing the scheme, not executing a result. Preseason stats are useless, especially when they're against others that are no longer in the league. I learned as a journalist that I had to look at the preseason differently because teams don't evaluate based on stats. None of us can know what exactly a player did right or wrong because we don't know what they were supposed to do. We only judge the results, which could have been obtained by doing the exactly the opposite of what the coaching staff wanted that play. And bad results could be a result of doing what was wanted.

Lewis showed results against players that are no longer on rosters. That's not progress. The off-the-field incident earlier this year, coming in out of shape, and not rising to a level above those in front of him. Practices are when the players earn their positions come game day. And gameday is about executing what you're supposed to do.

Potential means nothing in the NFL. It's actually a terrible thing if you constantly talk about a player's potential. It only shows that the player hasn't reached it. Potential is only good when you're talking about a draft prospect or rookie. After that, it's an excuse.

i think the lewis cut is the one thats disappointing. 4th round pick from a year ago who they drafted for special teams and looked like he had some potential at DE. I think he ll catch on with a 3-4 team at some point. lions took a guy that they didnt even have a position for with a pick where lots of teams are still grabbing solid starters. jim schwartz even said as much after they took him. for what its worth i thought lewis had done enough to beat out willie young but that took into account young's salary and lewis' potential on special teams.

rao wrote:

The worse part about the loss of Lewis is he was finally showing potential and he's got a higher ceiling than Young. They just cut a 4th round pick from a year ago to keep a 7th rounder from 3 years ago that struggled badly as a starter. It's a terrible personnel move and given that Young is going to be a back up this year anyways it makes even less sense to keep the marginally better player with very little room for growth.

I want what some of you guys are smoking. Lewis has shown NOTHING as a DE, and was supposed to be a force for us on special teams and has been, instead, an even bigger disappointment in that department. While Young is older and had a poor season last year. However, he has much more impact as a pass rusher than Lewis. Special teamers can be had from other positions, such as linebacker and safety. The Lions don't rotate those positions during the game unless there's an injury. But for our defensive line, the coaches rotate them and we need pass rushers at DE, not guys who have the 'potential' to be a pass rusher because they are only 23. I'll take the 28 year old who can pressure the pocket over the guy who has consistently been a game day healthy scratch.

lewis was cut before the 4th game, up to that point i didnt see willie young do anything positive and i saw a lot of negative and a lot of stupidity. at his best he uses his speed and a bullrush to get occassional pressure. he s poor vs the run unless unblocked and he still has no semblance of passrush moves or short area agility. lewis plays with more power vs the run, runs equally well changes direction better gets paid about half and has 5 years of development left compared to young. go and smoke that bc willie young has done nothing in his career and the lions keep counting on him. when has young showed anything other than potential? the one sack 2 years ago vs tyron smith???

And what, pray tell, did Ronnell Lewis show at any time? What DE, outside of LoJack, have the Lions had on their roster these past four seasons that DID show anything against the run?

I'm sorry Legend, but I just don't see what you are seeing. You speak of all these things that Lewis was capable of, and I never saw it, not once, in a game situation. I saw Young getting pressure during games one and two of the pre-season. Barely heard Lewis' name called at all. I saw Willie Young get his arms up to cause QBs to throw at odd angles and not complete their intended passes. Never saw that with Lewis. Aside from all that, Young knows enough to pay attention in the class room and show up to camp in shape. I have heard reports are that Lewis didn't even know enough to do that. He showed up out of shape, and was not doing what he was supposed to on special teams, which was why he got yanked from them last season.

Sorry, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on this way. I was pretty happy when the Lions drafted both these guys where they did. But to me, Lewis was by far the bigger disappointment and the easier cut.

so hearing young's name called for idiotic penalites was a positive for you. sorry smokey ninja but i watch the line and dont just wait to LISTEN for the commentators, young gets destroyed vs the run and runs himself out of plays on naked boots, runs away from him, screens, draws, etc. the fact that he s playing to rush a passer in all situations is not a positive to me especially now that they have added jones and idonije who play a more fundamentally sound DE than KVB and Cliff Avril used to play. its hard to say that young is playing strictly within the scheme. lewis to me had better instincts in those circumstance and was much better holding the edge on the run. forcing a play inside or holding the edge to allow a LB to make a play is valuable but not necessarily something you will hear the announcers say. i suggest watching and forming your own opinions especially if your opinions are going to be so definitive. comments about lewis out of shape and missing meetings is a different story thats a definite difference maker but thats a point you did not make in your original argument - i guess you can thank the other posters for the assist.