Apod, You say Lightweight Sleeping bags. Is this specifically relating to weight or Size as well. I was issued one and I must say it is HUGE. The Dimentions I am not sue of but when compressed as much as possible it will barely fit into a storage box under my bed.

My question, How does this Fit into the Bergan? (It takes up ALOT of space in there)

I have actually replaced it with one that is less than a 1/4 of the size, however I would like to know because some of the lads will not have swapped for a smaller one so I would like to tell them how and where to put it.

greyfox

30th May 2008, 17:43

the one we have in stores are the same ,they are an excellent bag comfort wise but are huge albeit light and would take up the most of a day sack( not that i carry my sleeping bag in daysack ) for this reason i usually leave it in stores , we had some very nice nanok sleeping bags for an ex once much handier in size .
apod how do you carry the sleeping system ?

apod

30th May 2008, 22:27

With either the 97 pattern bag (large arctic type) or the 05 type (nanok lighweight) the best way to pack it is as follows.
1/ Remove bag from its compression sack.Leave sack in locker/bks etc.
2/ Place bag into bivi bag feet end first.Make sure to leave zip open to half way( makes less noise)
3/Fold in edges of bivi bag into middle to reduce width.
4/Roll both form bottom end to expel trapped air.
5/Place rolled up bundle into a stuff sack which you have "acquired".If you can acquire a sealable waterproof stuffsack even better.
6/Place sleeping system into compartment provided if using new type bergan.if using old type.Place into bottom of main compartment.
7/Roll up kipmat and tie using elastics provided.Then either place under hood of bergan or attach to front in manner described in my previous posts on the subject.

Of all the items of personal kit you need to ensure is ALLWAYS kept dry and by that i mean you take absolutely NO chance it could get wet i.e by placing it under the hood of your bergan:rolleyes: its your sleeping bag.If you start to go down with hypothermia it is gonna save your lfe or possibly your buddies.You can live with wet clothes.You can dry your ordnance.If your sleeping bag gets wet your Fcuked!!!

P.S; while it think of it (and i think he posted this himself,but just a reminder:biggrin:) fianoglach had a good idea.Turn the stuff sack you store your sleping system in inside out and you can use it to cover your boots if you are wearing em in the bag.

Goldie fish

30th May 2008, 22:35

I have to disagree about the compression sack. I have used other bags with them in the past, and if you stuff the bag in feet first,(in the bivy bag) and compress the straps to the maximum, it will take up less than a third of its usual space. It just takes practice, and time.

That said Apod, your method is faster if you need to get on the move quick. The important thing is keeping the zip open though. If you pack it with the zip closed the zip may burst.

Dazzler

30th May 2008, 23:21

Thanks lads, Much appreciated.

I will pass this onto whoever wants to know it.

apod

31st May 2008, 10:46

The whole putting the bivi bag and sleeping bag combo into the compression sack will only work if you use a lighweight bag smaller than the large issue one(believe me i tried).The large 97 ptn bag and bivi bag combo is too big.
Time and practice.Maybe,but time is the one thing you never have enough of in a basecamp.Particularly for leaders.

On the tips side of things again(and i dont know if i mentioned this one before?)
Map cases.Gucci,but useless.Noisy and fiddly.Better idea is to fold the map to the area you are using and use a ziploc bag to cover it.Cheap ,easy to use and easy to replace.
On the subject of maps.Preparing your map is a must.Cut oiof the marginal info(legend )and stick it to the back of the map.Then highlight all the eastings and northings around the edges and across the map face.DONT use red or pink highlighter as the WONT show up under red torchlight.Use green.:smile:
Also dont ever go on patrol with a marked map.Easy way for the enemy to gain info on you and your intentions if captured.

P.s :While on the subject of sleeping bags.When not in use turn inside out and dont store it in the compression sack.This prevents the filling migrating to the foot of the bag and helps air it out.

DeV

31st May 2008, 11:16

On the subject of maps.Preparing your map is a must.Cut oiof the marginal info(legend )and stick it to the back of the map. Agreed, map cases are a waste of money. Buy a laminated map, Lamfold's cost about €25 (I know people were talking DIY before but this is professional done).

As a cheap and lighter alternative to a Sheet 56.... many exercises are done in the Glen area, pop into Seskin School (the range wardens' office just down from Fentons) and pick up a free map of the Glen area (it is meant for civvies and shows 2 walking routes) cut to the size you need and laminate it.

trellheim

31st May 2008, 12:07

On an exercise if you are an NCO or an officer, to echo Apod "your time is valuable".

Also, the sight to the troops of an officer [ or an NCO ] hauling out a huge Discovery Map and faffing about is always entertaining.

If you are going on exercises most times you know what map squares you will be on [ of source some times there will not ]

A map costs [ what €12 or something ? ] - if you have OSI trailmaster for the area you can print as many as you like for free

My point is that buying a Disco series map and cutting it down [ yes, it'll probably be useless afterwards but for 12 euro who cares ]

or as Dev says go get some freebies from Seskin School, and take a few minutes to stick them in ziplocs [ As Apod said ] . Alternatively use contact on them.

The problem I find with ziplocs is the map tends to bunch up inside it

Lam-Fold maps are more trouble than they're worth [ on tactic problems ] since people paid so much they're reluctant to cut them down to size and so end up faffing about with big maps

Now, how does one mark one's map or one's tac-aid with their current data ? [ without, of course permanently dirtying it ]

pencil and waterproof paper ? laminate and schreiber pens and then some nail polish remover or is it just "combat notebook"

ps : always, always carry a small pencil which is ready to go. tie it to a bit of string and shove it down the rings of the tac-aid. One day you will thank me for this when your pens are waterlogged, a pencil will work 24x7

greyfox

31st May 2008, 12:36

thank s Apod ,, do the artic bags see much use with the PDF or do people avoid it where possible ...

Hello Alaska

31st May 2008, 18:00

I use the same method as Apod for putting away my sleeping bag.

I tried it with the compression sack when I was first issued it but later found it took up more space and takes a hell of a lot longer to put away. Which is a rather large problem if you're told you have 5 minutes to be ready to move out.

concussion

31st May 2008, 18:04

Ditto with the compression sack - I just put my bag in the bottom of my drysack, dry clothes etc in ziplocks on top and insert boot to compress.

piper_69

2nd June 2008, 18:01

Now, how does one mark one's map or one's tac-aid with their current data ? [ without, of course permanently dirtying it ]

pencil and waterproof paper ? laminate and schreiber pens and then some nail polish remover or is it just "combat notebook"

Better yet use Faber-Castell Multimark 1523 permanent marker size S.
They are waterproof but have a special rubber in the end which removes the ink.
They are available in Black, Red, Blue and Green.
No need to carry nail polish remover.
They are available in Easons.

trellheim

2nd June 2008, 22:31

Piper, is that for the tac-aide paper. If it is, who sells refills for that type of waterproof paper ?

Barry

3rd June 2008, 00:23

Piper, is that for the tac-aide paper. If it is, who sells refills for that type of waterproof paper ?
http://www.lansdaleltd.com/prod.php/prod/TAMS

HavocIRL

2nd August 2008, 22:43

So anyone gone on the ground with the new gear and want to give out some good advice?

Dazzler

3rd August 2008, 05:50

I know this isn't really the place to say it, but, was on the ground for 72 a few weeks back and used alot of the tips from this thread and was VERY comfortable!!! (well, considering it was my first time I was more comfortable than most of my buddies!!!)

So Thanks a million for all the tips lads and if ye have anymore I am all eyes!!!

apod

3rd August 2008, 12:56

I know this isn't really the place to say it, but, was on the ground for 72 a few weeks back and used alot of the tips from this thread and was VERY comfortable!!! (well, considering it was my first time I was more comfortable than most of my buddies!!!)

So Thanks a million for all the tips lads and if ye have anymore I am all eyes!!!

How about passing the knowledge onto you buddies so they can be comfortable too?:smile:
Good to hear someone is benefiting from the advice.Soldier on.:biggrin:

ZULU

8th August 2008, 21:37

If anyone has a Leatherman Surge you'll know how great the detachable saw blade is on it. However I broke mine after some use on an ex this year (I dont think 8inch trees were what it was designed for - although it took down 3 before going)

After looking for a replacement blade, its like trying to find hens teeth. But being the ever resourceful fitter I am, I found out that a black and decker jigsaw blade makes an excellent replacement.

Now I have not only a wood saw blade for those pesky trees, but also a metal hacksaw if ever needed.!!!

spudula

9th August 2008, 15:29

Why didnt you just use a machette or bayonet????

A machette would deal with an 8 inch tree in one swipe or a bayonet (if its sharp) could be used to pare one down.

Theres also a multi tool made by PROTEC (rrp E9.99) that has a saw and a hack saw blade on it.

I've had mine for over 10 years now and its still going strong and its in use nearly everyday.

ZULU

9th August 2008, 15:58

Why didnt you just use a machette or bayonet????

A machette would deal with an 8 inch tree in one swipe or a bayonet (if its sharp) could be used to pare one down.

.

Ah the almighty Spudula, able to fell 8 inch DIAMETER pine trees with only his machette in one fell swoop. :rolleyes:

I'll tell you what. If you can video yourself with an issue machette cutting down an 8inch diameter fresh conifer in one stroke with said instrument, I'll donate 90euro to this site.

spudula

9th August 2008, 20:01

(I dont think 8inch trees were what it was designed for

You didnt say diametre....................

ZULU

9th August 2008, 20:43

You didnt say diametre....................

Maybe not but did you honestly think I'd call a piece of vegetation that was 8 inches tall a "TREE":rolleyes:

ROFL!!!!!!:biggrin::tongue:

spudula

9th August 2008, 21:01

Maybe not but did you honestly think I'd call a piece of vegetation that was 8 inches tall a "TREE":rolleyes:

ROFL!!!!!!:biggrin::tongue:

Thats the thing about them damn trees...................

Theres the circumference, diametre, width, breath, all can be confusing.................

But to get slightly back on topic, My point was, theres perfectly good multitools out there for a fraction of the price of the leather mans and such like.

And i know i'd feel alot happier losing one that only cost 10yoyo's instead off 30, 40or 50!!!

Seems like everytime I go into a recently occupied P.H I find one lying on the ground. Them an bungees, loads and loads of bungees. I havent had to buy any in a while.............

Oh and whats ROFL??????

REX

10th August 2008, 01:03

And i know i'd feel alot happier losing one that only cost 10yoyo's instead off 30, 40or 50!!!

Oh and whats ROFL??????

I want to know where you're getting a leatherman for 30, 40 or 50 yoyos?

Tribunius

10th August 2008, 02:19

A leather man kick can be had for as little as E25 over here in canada.

And a wave II for as little as E48.

At least thats the cheapest I've come across.

Truck Driver

10th August 2008, 10:16

If anyone has a Leatherman Surge you'll know how great the detachable saw blade is on it. However I broke mine after some use on an ex this year (I dont think 8inch trees were what it was designed for - although it took down 3 before going)

After looking for a replacement blade, its like trying to find hens teeth. But being the ever resourceful fitter I am, I found out that a black and decker jigsaw blade makes an excellent replacement.

Now I have not only a wood saw blade for those pesky trees, but also a metal hacksaw if ever needed.!!!

Why didnt you just use a machette or bayonet????

A machette would deal with an 8 inch tree in one swipe or a bayonet (if its sharp) could be used to pare one down.

Theres also a multi tool made by PROTEC (rrp E9.99) that has a saw and a hack saw blade on it.

I've had mine for over 10 years now and its still going strong and its in use nearly everyday.

Ah the almighty Spudula, able to fell 8 inch DIAMETER pine trees with only his machette in one fell swoop. :rolleyes:

I'll tell you what. If you can video yourself with an issue machette cutting down an 8inch diameter fresh conifer in one stroke with said instrument, I'll donate 90euro to this site.

Maybe not but did you honestly think I'd call a piece of vegetation that was 8 inches tall a "TREE":rolleyes:

ROFL!!!!!!:biggrin::tongue:

Thats the thing about them damn trees...................

Theres the circumference, diametre, width, breath, all can be confusing.................

But to get slightly back on topic, My point was, theres perfectly good multitools out there for a fraction of the price of the leather mans and such like.

And i know i'd feel alot happier losing one that only cost 10yoyo's instead off 30, 40or 50!!!

Seems like everytime I go into a recently occupied P.H I find one lying on the ground. Them an bungees, loads and loads of bungees. I havent had to buy any in a while.............

Oh and whats ROFL??????

ROFL - Rolling On The floor Laughing

On the subject of cutting vegetation. Got this tip from an colleague this year.
Buy yourself a pruning saw - can pick one up for €10 in B & Q, etc.
The blade folds inside the handle. Small, compact, will fit into a backpack side
pcoket no bother.... Works a treat........ :smile:

Indeed, It is a vital object particularly if you are in a Unit that requires getting Vehicles into a hide. An ordinary multi Tool or other pocket knife just doesn't have the capacity..

spudula

10th August 2008, 13:56

I want to know where you're getting a leatherman for 30, 40 or 50 yoyos?

I checked it out on THE GREAT OUTDOORS and your right, their ALOT more than 30, 40, and 50!!!!

That surge thing costs E145!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fcuk me that shop must have BIG windows.

I hope it wasnt bought in there, cause if I spent that sort of money and couldnt get replacement parts, Ive be having a serious talk with them!!!

spudula

10th August 2008, 13:58

ROFL - Rolling On The floor Laughing

On the subject of cutting vegetation. Got this tip from an colleague this year.
Buy yourself a pruning saw - can pick one up for €10 in B & Q, etc.
The blade folds inside the handle. Small, compact, will fit into a backpack side
pcoket no bother.... Works a treat........ :smile:

Yeah their the business alright.

But You'll probably get someone moaning about the weight...........

Hello Alaska

10th August 2008, 14:02

Yeah their the business alright.

But You'll probably get someone moaning about the weight...........

They'd want to be quite the character to complain about the weight.

It weighs **** all.

spudula

10th August 2008, 14:47

They'd want to be quite the character to complain about the weight.

It weighs **** all.

Look around you brother....................

There are people on here that moan about the weight of BUNGEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ZULU

10th August 2008, 15:19

That surge thing costs E145!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!

Free actually, present for looking after a few people in the right places. (Thanks Matthews)

spudula

10th August 2008, 15:43

Free actually, present for looking after a few people in the right places. (Thanks Matthews)

Nice one so..........

apod

10th August 2008, 17:34

Look around you brother....................

There are people on here that moan about the weight of BUNGEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A not to veiled dig at me 'cos i advocated using paracord for basha construction rather than bungees.
Sad mate if thats all you have to concern you:rolleyes:
When you are an infantry soldier and you carry your house on your back and your primary mode of transport is the Mk1 leather personel carrier than EVERY bit of unnecesary weight is something to crib about.After a while you learn that any macho big talking fool can be uncomfortable and lug extra shit around around with em.These morons are usually the lads who are panned out at the end of any long march.Not great when you then have to do a platoon attack.:rolleyes:

So spud.Tell me what the longest you have ever spent on the ground.Living in a basha and lugging weight everyday?On and how much weight did you really carry?

spudula

10th August 2008, 18:17

A not to veiled dig at me 'cos i advocated using paracord for basha construction rather than bungees.
Sad mate if thats all you have to concern you:rolleyes:

paranoia seems to be a way of life for you, doesnt it!!!!!!!

check out post 210 on this thread and you'll see what I was ACTUALLY refering to............

So spud.Tell me what the longest you have ever spent on the ground.Living in a basha and lugging weight everyday?On and how much weight did you really carry?

Since I (like everyone else on here) have no way of proving on here what I have or havent done,
I see no need to tell you anything.

spudula

10th August 2008, 18:33

Lets try keep on topic though.

If you wanna slag me off or compare sizes you can always PM me.

apod

10th August 2008, 19:06

paranoia seems to be a way of life for you, doesnt it!!!!!!!
Just because your paranoid deoesnt mean they are not after you:biggrin::tongue:

check out post 210 on this thread and you'll see what I was ACTUALLY refering to............
Yes.He is right.your point?

Since I (like everyone else on here) have no way of proving on here what I have or havent done,
I see no need to tell you anything.
Ah,typical.You will pass comments on others opinions and piss on them but refuse to back up your own with fact.Perhaps you would get more respect if you stopped being evasive and answered the question or are you afraid that by doing so you are placing your reputation as someone who has been there and done that(which i really doubt) up for scrutiny or criticism.?Is that the case? Of course you will say no.But i think it is.
Pity.

As for comparing sizes and what not.Whats the point.You think you are always right an pour scorn on others consistently.I post when i think i am right and can back it up.On occasion i get it wrong but at least i can admit it.You cant.And thats just sad:frown:

Dazzler

11th August 2008, 04:06

As for the Topic of that Pruning saw they are the Buisness. They will take down thin braches with a good whack and about 5 seconds of sawing will get through a 3 in branch.

I cleared a 15 foot path a few weeks ago in 10 minutes with one of those. There were about 14 heavily grown trees there!!!!

*Note to self, Buy own Pruning saw*

flash bang

11th August 2008, 15:50

i can say Spudula has spent time on the ground at least 2 hours! (hee hee) only jokin, spuds been around a long time his cherry's well popped!

ZULU

15th August 2008, 19:14

What are peoples thoughts on having a button instead of the fastex clips / PLCE clips to hold a pouch closed? It came up in conversation today.

greyfox

15th August 2008, 20:16

im presuming you mean those metal buttons
the original brit PLCE had buttons and were soon replaced by the Spanish clips .,
buttons are very finicky and small and need to be perfectly lined up ( and if they are anything like the buttons on the back of the respirator pouch a total pain in the ass to close pressure wise ,, they are hard to close on an empty pouch, not so good when you have gloves or your hands are frozen , perhaps a metal button is not the best counter servellince wise ,,
i dont believe they offer the positive closing that the fastex clips offer , it takes two fingers to open the fastex clips no branch is going to get caught in my pouch and open it,

ZULU

15th August 2008, 21:01

Not talking about the metal push on buttons. Something more like the buttons on the smock.

Turncoat

15th August 2008, 22:54

What we are all taking to doing now is replacing the clips with strips of velcro, like the old south african vests.

ZULU

15th August 2008, 23:03

Is that on the PLCE or the OSPREY molle plate carrier yokeythingy:biggrin:

I used to have one of them SA vest. Gave it to an aquaintance who actually put it to some good use.

We were discussing the advantages of the buttons to velcro. Silent, can be done with one hand yet secure and not prone to getting clogged up.

Thoughts?

Turncoat

15th August 2008, 23:17

PLCE we still use it on everything but operations.

Its youre ammunition pouches, if youre in a situation where you need to use them being quiet is the least of your worries!
The velcro is probably the easiest and fastest solution Ive seen so far. Buttons are awkward and while wearing Ceramic plates stuffing magazines down your combat jacket isnt really an option any more, its too hard to get them in and once they are in you cant get them out.

spudula

16th August 2008, 00:16

I used to have one of them SA vest. Gave it to an aquaintance who actually put it to some good use.

I have one of them vests and used it on several exercises and as far as im concerned its great. Only problem is using it at night cause of the noise the velcro makes.

We were discussing the advantages of the buttons to velcro. Silent, can be done with one hand yet secure and not prone to getting clogged up.

Thoughts?

Isnt there velcro and clips on the PLCE pouches?

I use both on the the utility pouches to make sure they stay closed and only the spanish clips on my ammo. ones so I can open them quietly if I need to get at the mags at night.

No problems so far.

spudula

16th August 2008, 00:19

Buttons are awkward and while wearing Ceramic plates stuffing magazines down your combat jacket isnt really an option any more, its too hard to get them in and once they are in you cant get them out.

Isnt that what the two big zipped pockets on the battle vest are for?

spudula

16th August 2008, 00:19

Or the drop pouches on the leg?

apod

16th August 2008, 10:36

The zippered internal pouchs on the new vest are for maps,tams and orders books and small items like compasses.The drop leg dump pouch is designed to take your empty mags when wearing body armour(which is pretty much all the time now),The pouch will hold 3-4 emptys before you have to stop and rebomb them.:smile:

Turncoat

16th August 2008, 11:34

Isnt that what the two big zipped pockets on the battle vest are for?

I dont wear one. After several years in a COP vest ive gone back to wearing PLCE like most other people I know.
Unfortunately with the amount of kit we are carrying nowadays the vests just dont have room for it all.

sulla

22nd October 2008, 16:47

can any experienced heads here recommend a good brand/retailor for decent camo cream. Have used a Fu*k load of those rubish little sticks and 5 in 1 oil things. they're all useless.

and no smart answers about using mudd, blood, or excremint please.:rolleyes:

apod

22nd October 2008, 23:00

Go with the same as the army issue two tone(green/black or green/brown) one and you cant go wrong.Made by BCB i think.Waterproof with a built in mozzie rep.:cool:

greyfox

23rd October 2008, 00:06

wesco is best i have used
QMS is like trying to apply a Crayola crayon

Docman

23rd October 2008, 01:46

Go with the same as the army issue two tone(green/black or green/brown) one and you cant go wrong.Made by BCB i think.Waterproof with a built in mozzie rep.:cool:

Wesco WAS BCB stuff.
BCB now markets it under the name of Bushcraft.
But you can still find some under the name of Wesco - basically they are all the same thing.

Also IRR - for the one time that you actually get NVE!!!

hptmurphy

23rd October 2008, 02:33

can any experienced heads here recommend a good brand/retailor for decent camo cream. Have used a Fu*k load of those rubish little sticks and 5 in 1 oil things. they're all useless.

Try a local office supplies for dry chalk , comes in various colours in small tub type container. mix with a drop of water . Instant cammo.

You can rub it in without having to worry about looking like 'shrek' for weeks afterwards.

long lasting, washes off, non greasy, non smelly costs a couple of quid a tub but will last ages.

piper_69

23rd October 2008, 14:32

Would the chalk not run off with your sweat?

WESCO was the best I have used and now I use Bushcraft.

sulla

23rd October 2008, 20:41

cheers lads,

keep the cork of your next bottle of wine,
roughen edge of cork with knife,
burn for a few seconds with a lighter,
hey presto, instant charcole camo stick,

very cheap, very light, wont burst in your smock.

ive heard tell of a tube of 'hunting' camo cream thats meant to be the dogs Boll*x. anyone have a name of it?

hptmurphy

23rd October 2008, 22:36

Would the chalk not run off with your sweat?

I Thought that too but no it doesn't and i was wearing it for 72hr ex in 2005 and it was hot..remember hot summers?..and topped it up once or twice a day and it was fine.

Truck Driver

4th March 2009, 18:40

A big thank you to Murph, when I finally remembered this thread today.

Was looking for a suitable means of erasing marker from a map case.

Going around every shop going with an acetate with marker scrawled on it, for the
the last day and a bit.

The revelation hit me today - "NAIL POLISH REMOVER" !!!

Great stuff !!!! Works a treat...... :wink:

Turncoat

4th March 2009, 18:48

A big thank you to Murph, when I finally remembered this thread today.
Was looking for a suitable means of erasing marker from a map case.
Going around every shop going with an acetate with marker scrawled on it, for the
the last day and a bit.
The revelation hit me today - "NAIL POLISH REMOVER" !!!

Yea its great stuff! Will take off chinagraph too.

Good idea if youre doing your orders actually. Have all your crib cards laminated, same with sketch maps and warning orders.
Send the warning order etc round written in lumocolor, then when you want to update it or write a new one just wipe it off with nail polish remover!

Same goes for ammo/cas cards etc.

Barry

4th March 2009, 19:13

Believe it or not, a small amount of toothpaste and a baby wipe removes permanent marker, and leaves your nyrex minty fresh :biggrin:

golden rivet

4th March 2009, 19:34

A big thank you to Murph, when I finally remembered this thread today.

Was looking for a suitable means of erasing marker from a map case.

Going around every shop going with an acetate with marker scrawled on it, for the
the last day and a bit.

The revelation hit me today - "NAIL POLISH REMOVER" !!!

Great stuff !!!! Works a treat...... :wink::eek: contains acetone which is known to cause cancer

paul

4th March 2009, 19:41

Any form of spray deodorant works as well

hedgehog

4th March 2009, 20:37

cheap aftershave is especially good

all you country lads with your Brut and Hai Karate

now you have a use for it

Goldie fish

4th March 2009, 21:19

Drakar noir?

ZULU

5th March 2009, 02:07

Yes cause in Chad or Afghanistan or other Sun Holiday destinations, nail polish remover, acetone and cheap deodourant and aftershave are the essential things to carry on patrol!

Turncoat

5th March 2009, 09:23

Yes cause in Chad or Afghanistan or other Sun Holiday destinations, nail polish remover, acetone and cheap deodourant and aftershave are the essential things to carry on patrol!
Well.......yes actually! Most section commanders/pln commanders in our unit carry nail polish remover to wipe nirex/maps clean. Without it admin would be next to impossible. All the guys on herrick brought out that kind of kit with them too as far as I know.

Considering on ops you are going to be giving at least 1 set of orders a day as a platoon commander stuff like nail polish remover is absolutely essential. (using nail polish remover and lumocolours is what is thaught at sandhurst)

hedgehog

5th March 2009, 10:18

Yes cause in Chad or Afghanistan or other Sun Holiday destinations, nail polish remover, acetone and cheap deodourant and aftershave are the essential things to carry on patrol!

Why would you be removing info from your maps- orders etc

during a patrol or an operation

why not wait till you get back to base and then use the cheap aftershave etc

thats what we uSoldiers on overseas missions used to do-and it worked well for us

(using nail polish remover and lumocolours is what is thaught at sandhurst)

Recently went researching on what to put in a nyrex folder, and according to a multitude of threads on ARRSE, all that's allowed at sandhurst is TAMs and a waterproof notepad. Lumicolour (even permanent) doesn't work so well in torrential rain, and you won't always have your gucci nyrex with inserts, so they make the OCdts do it the old fashioed way.

Turncoat

5th March 2009, 12:32

Yea they are trying to force use of just TAM's

However inserts for orders and estimates are ok apparently. As long as its in the TAM its ok.

Yes youre right lumicolour dosent work in the rain. For that eventuality carry some chinagraph pencils and a few plastic sheets from an gpmg ammo box. My last tewt was done in rain so severe the waterproof notepad wasnt working, the chinagraphs/plastic still works!

Truck Driver

5th March 2009, 14:06

:eek: contains acetone which is known to cause cancer

According to the bottle, 'tis "Acetone Free"

This caught my eye, as the stuff is used here in work, and I'm well aware
it's nasty sh1te !!!

Truck Driver

5th March 2009, 14:09

cheap aftershave is especially good

all you country lads with your Brut and Hai Karate

now you have a use for it

You seem to have a bit of a fixation about these products, Hedge.

Are you an advertising rep trying to relaunch these on unsuspecting spotty teenagers ?

Or did you use them yourslef in the past ??? :smile:

hedgehog

5th March 2009, 14:14

You seem to have a bit of a fixation about these products, Hedge.

Are you an advertising rep trying to relaunch these on unsuspecting spotty teenagers ?

Or did you use them yourslef in the past ??? :smile:

what do you mean the past

I still splash it on every morning

but I only use the ever classy Hai Karate

I never have problems with mossies or flys and the women seem to swoon (literally) at my feet

Truck Driver

5th March 2009, 14:58

but I only use the ever classy Hai Karate

Wasn't aware it was still on the market.......

I never have problems with mossies or flys and the women seem to swoon (literally) at my feet

Better not let Mrs Hog hear you saying that....... otherwise.........

http://mystagedlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/nutcracker.jpg

FoxtrotRK

5th March 2009, 17:46

I've been using Faber-Castell Multimark permanent pens, have to say they're the business. I had no luck with Chinagraph pens as they tended to smudge when applied to documents I'd have in my pockets. They have a small rubber on the back as well that works fine.

Truck Driver

5th March 2009, 18:19

A work colleague (ex TA) has also mentioned chinagraph pencils.

Will look into it...

TBH, I haven't been out in a torrential downpour (thankfully) as yet, to test the
efficiency, or otherwise, of the Lumocolour pens.

A little bit more multi-purpose than nail remover, is the little sticks of issued mozzie repelant(the ones that work like mini cam cream sticks). Rub on and wipe off with tissue or baby wipe, gets rid of all permanent marker. :wink:

Hi folks i haven't posted in this thread in a while and recent events of some lad copying my kit list over to boards.ie have prompted me to post my latest thoughts on Field admin.
Recently i was on a couple of exercises that involved the usual carrying of bergans and what not to a basecamp ,bivving up and then carrying out patrols and advance to contacts.Now i had my CEMO set up the way i had previously listed and while it was a fairly good set up it never took into consideration a few things.

1/ The new CEMO i.e Bergan/daysack/battlevest has a different weight distribution to the old PLCE.

2/ Carrying CBA everywhere,thus added weight.

3/ I am not 19 anymore and every extra gram hurts more than it did years ago:frown::redface:

So.I decided in the aftermath to cast a VERY critical eye over what i was carrying.With a view to reducing the weight i carry for future exercises/ops.
I found i was carrying some items that while they were nice to have,and i might occasionally use them,they were only really there "Just in case".IE carrying etra tent pegs or hats in case you loose the one you normally use. So having decided to cut weight i tore my kit apart with the "Do i really need it/Do i use it/will i use it " mentality.And these were my findings.

Rations.
BY cutting my food for 24 hours down to the bare minimum i will eat for each meal and a few snacks i have cut alot of weight.Yes i do like the boil in the bag desserts but when do i ever have enough time,or water,to brew them up aswell as my meal?Never.BINNED.
So.I did out a menu for myself of what exactly i would eat or use at each meal ie if having coffee how many creamers and sugars will i use.Sorted.BIN the rest.

SPARE CLOTHES
How often did i use the driflo long johns i always advocated carrying "just in case".Once.BINNED.
Do i need five pairs of socks when most exercises last at most 72 hours?No.BINNED.I now carry two in Bergan.One on me, and an emergency pair in my daysack.If going on a longer ex/op i will pack a pair for each extra day i know i will be out.
Do i need a spare hat in case i loose one.NO.Just dont be stupid enough to loose the first one!If i do tough shit.I have a helmet.

WATER
Did i really need to carry the two issue camelbaks and two water bottles in case i ran out?
Was i gonna get a resup after 24 hours.Yes. Was i in a desert or jungle climate in Kilworth.NO.
So.Seeing as water and AMMO are the two heaviest items you can carry normally i drastically cut down.One camelbak and one waterbottle now.Throw in an extra waterbottle if doing CBRN drills for any long period of time.
More on this later.:wink:

Barry

18th April 2009, 16:15

Yes i do like the boil in the bag desserts

You strange, strange person.....

hedgehog

18th April 2009, 16:18

what kit list do you use APOD

its always intersting and educational to see how others pack the gear and what they carry

for a 72 hr I bring 4 spare pairs of socks and the ones on me

but thats a personal thing

Truck Driver

20th April 2009, 14:06

WATER
Did i really need to carry the two issue camelbaks and two water bottles in case i ran out?
Was i gonna get a resup after 24 hours.Yes. Was i in a desert or jungle climate in Kilworth.NO.
So.Seeing as water and AMMO are the two heaviest items you can carry normally i drastically cut down.One camelbak and one waterbottle now.Throw in an extra waterbottle if doing CBRN drills for any long period of time.
More on this later.:wink:

Interesting. We had it from a cook that a boot on the ground needs a minimum of
6 litres of water for a 24 hour period. One Camelback and one water bottle would
be approx 4 litres ?

for a 72 hr I bring 4 spare pairs of socks and the ones on me

but thats a personal thing

.... because ye Vikings are smelly feckers ! :smile:
But yes, a pair per day....

HavocIRL

20th April 2009, 14:09

Interesting. We had it from a cook that a boot on the ground needs a minimum of
6 litres of water for a 24 hour period. One Camelback and one water bottle would
be approx 4 litres ?

.... because ye Vikings are smelly feckers ! :smile:
But yes, a pair per day....

I wouldn't drink 6 litres of water a day on the ground in Chad.

Bam Bam

20th April 2009, 14:11

Thats why you've logged in from the medical aid post :biggrin:

apod

20th April 2009, 21:02

Interesting. We had it from a cook that a boot on the ground needs a minimum of
6 litres of water for a 24 hour period. One Camelback and one water bottle would
be approx 4 litres ?
Yeah,but you are missing the point.I am trying to put more faith in the resupply system rather than lugging 6-8 litres of water myself and then being too fecked to fight when i get to the SL because i had to carry that and all the other crap rather than carrying just what i needed immediately to drink and brew up.And that was one of the major findings after operation anaconda in 2002.Troops need to only carry what they need and put more trust in the system.

.... because ye Vikings are smelly feckers ! :smile:
But yes, a pair per day..
True:biggrin:(on both counts)

I wouldn't drink 6 litres of water a day on the ground in Chad.
Jesus! the recomended amount was 6-8 litres a day from the lads who did the initial recce.How much are you drinking? I used to drink six in Liberia but the humidity was a lot worse.

I walked home from the shop today with 4.5lts in my bag, that was heavy enough in today's heat, don't wanna bear that taught of what 14lts is like:eek:

turbocalves

20th April 2009, 22:07

Were you planning on having a bath before bedtime?? :tongue:

Man are you suggesting that i wash???

NEVER!!!:tongue::biggrin::tongue::biggrin:

though on a serious note,

i ended up drinking water like nobodies business, just to get rid of it!

fred the red

21st April 2009, 02:54

The above few posts remind me of my pots course,

I brought 14 lts out on my two day excercise, not fun!

i learned quickly after that

Where the fcuk was your pots coarse the sahara?????

:biggrin:

turbocalves

21st April 2009, 16:13

No it was in the Gobi and Bear Grylls was the instructor :P

HavocIRL

21st April 2009, 17:11

Yeah,but you are missing the point.I am trying to put more faith in the resupply system rather than lugging 6-8 litres of water myself and then being too fecked to fight when i get to the SL because i had to carry that and all the other crap rather than carrying just what i needed immediately to drink and brew up.And that was one of the major findings after operation anaconda in 2002.Troops need to only carry what they need and put more trust in the system.

True:biggrin:(on both counts)

Jesus! the recomended amount was 6-8 litres a day from the lads who did the initial recce.How much are you drinking? I used to drink six in Liberia but the humidity was a lot worse.

LOL:biggrin::biggrin:

Only about 4, and I'm training on a daily basis aswell. When we first got here it would have been in 6-8 litre range.

Bosco

21st April 2009, 19:14

Yeah,but you are missing the point.I am trying to put more faith in the resupply system rather than lugging 6-8 litres of water myself and then being too fecked to fight when i get to the SL because i had to carry that and all the other crap rather than carrying just what i needed immediately to drink and brew up.And that was one of the major findings after operation anaconda in 2002.Troops need to only carry what they need and put more trust in the system.

But the problem being on any course I have ever done with the reserves the resupply was always forgotten about or barely managed at all.
The regs however were very well switched onto the supply side of things, never seen so much grub,water and ammo when playing with your guys.

Dazzler

21st April 2009, 20:06

But the problem being on any course I have ever done with the reserves the resupply was always forgotten about or barely managed at all.
The regs however were very well switched onto the supply side of things, never seen so much grub,water and ammo when playing with your guys.

I agree, as Ex Troops on the RDF Pot Officers Course last year, I brought out 3 litres of water with me, and there was a resuply, but it was only about 20 litres for 17/18 people a day, I got no resupply for the first 2 days because I was constantly on Stag. On the 3rd day I just fecked off my post the second I saw the water coming and got less than a litre because one of the Pot's said that was enough.

ZULU

21st April 2009, 23:30

Back to the topic folks. Keep it tight to the thread title please

Truck Driver

6th May 2009, 18:59

Hi folks i haven't posted in this thread in a while and recent events of some lad copying my kit list over to boards.ie have prompted me to post my latest thoughts on Field admin.
Recently i was on a couple of exercises that involved the usual carrying of bergans and what not to a basecamp ,bivving up and then carrying out patrols and advance to contacts.Now i had my CEMO set up the way i had previously listed and while it was a fairly good set up it never took into consideration a few things.

1/ The new CEMO i.e Bergan/daysack/battlevest has a different weight distribution to the old PLCE.

2/ Carrying CBA everywhere,thus added weight.

3/ I am not 19 anymore and every extra gram hurts more than it did years ago:frown::redface:

So.I decided in the aftermath to cast a VERY critical eye over what i was carrying.With a view to reducing the weight i carry for future exercises/ops.
I found i was carrying some items that while they were nice to have,and i might occasionally use them,they were only really there "Just in case".IE carrying etra tent pegs or hats in case you loose the one you normally use. So having decided to cut weight i tore my kit apart with the "Do i really need it/Do i use it/will i use it " mentality.And these were my findings.

Rations.
BY cutting my food for 24 hours down to the bare minimum i will eat for each meal and a few snacks i have cut alot of weight.Yes i do like the boil in the bag desserts but when do i ever have enough time,or water,to brew them up aswell as my meal?Never.BINNED.
So.I did out a menu for myself of what exactly i would eat or use at each meal ie if having coffee how many creamers and sugars will i use.Sorted.BIN the rest.

SPARE CLOTHES
How often did i use the driflo long johns i always advocated carrying "just in case".Once.BINNED.
Do i need five pairs of socks when most exercises last at most 72 hours?No.BINNED.I now carry two in Bergan.One on me, and an emergency pair in my daysack.If going on a longer ex/op i will pack a pair for each extra day i know i will be out.
Do i need a spare hat in case i loose one.NO.Just dont be stupid enough to loose the first one!If i do tough shit.I have a helmet.

WATER
Did i really need to carry the two issue camelbaks and two water bottles in case i ran out?
Was i gonna get a resup after 24 hours.Yes. Was i in a desert or jungle climate in Kilworth.NO.
So.Seeing as water and AMMO are the two heaviest items you can carry normally i drastically cut down.One camelbak and one waterbottle now.Throw in an extra waterbottle if doing CBRN drills for any long period of time.

More on this later.:wink:

Any updates on this, Apod ?

apod

7th May 2009, 17:18

:smile:Ok i have i have been busy of late and forgot to update this so to continue.

FIRST AID KIT
For the last few years i carried a basic first aid kit in my CEFO and a more comprehensive kit in my Bergan.The idea was to resupply the CEFO kit from the Bergan one and that the CEFO one would be for "running repairs" whilst away from my Bergan and that the one in the Bergan would be used whilst static in Basecamp.What was wrong with that picture?We have section medical bags or if on long range patrol overseas we have a medical APC with paramedics.Why do i need to carry a load of stuff thats gonna be in the section bag?If its not in the section bag i can get resup from the medics.SOOO i consolidated the basic and larger kits i carried into one fairly OK IFAK which i carry in my vest.Result: less weight as i only carry one kit now instead of two.

COMMAND/ORDERS KIT
i started to get sick of carrying a near "combat library" around with me(TAMS 1&2/battlebook/Waterproof notebook) So i looked at what i used to carry years ago.TAM 1/96 and a w/proof notebook.How did we end up carrying so much since then? Anyway why carry two separate TAMS with notepaper in each and a w/proof notebook?I took the notepaper out the cover of one of the TAMS and placed the othe TAM segment in its place.Also alot of the R2(reports and returns) are duplicated in TAM 2 so i binned them.Every gram counts right. So now if i need to write notes i have my w/proof pad.MY TAMS as reminders and my battlebook for orders and ORBATS etc.

So to summarise i have ditched the idea of carry it "just in case" and "i wont get resupply".
I just have to be more disciplined with my rations and water (obviously i reserve the right to carry more water in extreme warm conditions or if operating in CBRN kit) and place more trust in the resupply system.:wink:

greyfox

8th June 2009, 13:40

people can learn put the webbing together, but the real benefit would come from using it in the field packed with admin stuff and not with paper or empty learning what works for you what doesn't whether you carry too much, are ammo pouches too far forward , too high this only comes with constant use and supervision which is just not practical ,
i gave up using mess tins a few years back and replaced it with a metal mug smaller and as useful and will fit on the bottom of a US water bottle , for when you get hot locks a tip i heard and have yet to use is to get one of those tin foil baking trays like a Chinese comes in and squash it flat when you need it open it out it takes up less space then mess tin,

SwiftandSure

8th June 2009, 15:53

i gave up using mess tins a few years back and replaced it with a metal mug smaller and as useful and will fit on the bottom of a US water bottle , for when you get hot locks a tip i heard and have yet to use is to get one of those tin foil baking trays like a Chinese comes in and squash it flat when you need it open it out it takes up less space then mess tin,

I like that tip! Might have to go back to the drawing board with that one!
I'm not a big fan of mess tins myself, but I've got them from my BA days, and I'm trying not to spend more money on Army-Barmy gear; or else the long-haired-general will have me lynched for not putting that money aside for our wedding! :eek:

DeV

8th June 2009, 17:26

Check out the good tips thread

apod

8th June 2009, 17:41

I like that tip! Might have to go back to the drawing board with that one!
I'm not a big fan of mess tins myself, but I've got them from my BA days, and I'm trying not to spend more money on Army-Barmy gear; or else the long-haired-general will have me lynched for not putting that money aside for our wedding! :eek:

If you can get your hands on the "Crusader" metal mugs issued to both PDF and BA than you can ditch the mess tins. Crusader mugs can be used to brew up boil in the bags and the 58 pattern waterbottle is designed to fit into it. Very few PDF use mess tins anymore. And you can use 'em for stew/curry from hotlocks(norwegians) as well.
Apods tip: Ziplocks bags can be used to line your mug when getting a container meal.No washing out after. Just bin the bag.:wink:

hedgehog

8th June 2009, 17:44

carry 2 bits of tin foil as well

1 can go on the bottom and keep the end clean from the flames of the hexi

the other can make a nice little lid and help heat water etc up a lot quicker

Dazzler

8th June 2009, 17:51

If you can get your hands on the "Crusader" metal mugs issued to both PDF

Hedgie is totally right about the Tin Foil. That's how I do it too. Alot easier and faster than cleaning up after.

but this is definitely deviating into the Good Tips territory.

HavocIRL

8th June 2009, 18:24

One of the things that I liked about Chad, there wasn't many, was that you didn't need to cook your food. Just leave a ration pack on top of a rock for 15 minutes and when you came back it was cooked.

To cook noodles you cut a bottle in half, left about a quarter of it filled with water and poured the noodles in. Cover it up and 15 minutes later it would be cooked.

ZULU

8th June 2009, 20:23

Now that you were wearing the IPLCS out on patrols in chad, without a smock, what did you end up carrying havoc?

SwiftandSure

8th June 2009, 21:45

If you can get your hands on the "Crusader" metal mugs issued to both PDF and BA than you can ditch the mess tins.Crusader mugs can be used to brew up boil in the bags and the 58 pattern waterbottle is designed to fit into it.Vey few PDF use mess tins anymore.And you can use em for stew/curry from hotlocks(norwegians) as well.
Apods tip: Ziplocks bags can be used to line you mug when getting a container meal.No washing out after just bin the bag.:wink:

Jaysus, now I'm thinking I'll stick my jetboil in the webbing (which fits better anyway) and use Greyfox's tip of one or two collapsed tin foil tubs for hot-locks meals. In the meantime, just in case, I'll leave the mess tins in the front pouch of my bergan, until such time i pick up a crusader mug.

Dazzler

8th June 2009, 22:11

Jaysus, now I'm thinking I'll stick my jetboil in the webbing (which fits better anyway) and use Greyfox's tip of one or two collapsed tin foil tubs for hot-locks meals. In the meantime, just in case, I'll leave the mess tins in the front pouch of my bergan, until such time i pick up a crusader mug.

I hate that phrase. Start putting in things "just in case" and it leads to more things "Just in case" which leads to an extremely Heavy Bergan.

The Mugs are probably the greatest thing I have ever come across though. Noodles make perfectly with a small amount of water, and none of it wasted.

Goldie fish

8th June 2009, 22:30

"Every soldier should carry an axe lest he may need to break down a door....."

(Just in case, from hundreds of years ago)

paul

8th June 2009, 22:33

"Every soldier should carry an axe lest he may need to break down a door....."

(Just in case, from hundreds of years ago)

I prefer explosives, failing that use the biggest guy in your section

ZULU

8th June 2009, 22:46

Hooligan tool in an assault pack works quite well

SwiftandSure

8th June 2009, 22:50

I hate that phrase. Start putting in things "just in case" and it leads to more things "Just in case" which leads to an extremely Heavy Bergan.

The Mugs are probably the greatest thing I have ever come across though. Noodles make perfectly with a small amount of water, and none of it wasted.

Oh believe me Dazzler, I take a lot of time, pride and tend to be very stringent when it comes to packing my kit; and for all intents and purposes a Jetboil PCS, tinfoil tub and Crusader mug (when I get around to getting one) is more than adequate for me. But summer camp is the second part of my 2 star training, and so "just in case" I'm landed with a head the ball cpl/pl sgt who insists that I eat with the same utensils as everyone else for the sake of uniformity, I'll keep my mess tins in my bergan. Besides, I dunno how heavy the issued sleeping bags are, but mine's nicely small and lightweight without compromising too much on warmth; so where I'm saving in some areas, I can afford to carry a little extra in others. :smile:

Once I've got the 3 stars on my chest, I'll be a lot more confident to pack (or not pack) what I feel is most combat effective.

paul

8th June 2009, 22:53

Hooligan tool in an assault pack works quite well

There expensive though. A inexpensive sledge hammer or anything from the surrounding houses to use as such.

Liachta Cultaca

8th June 2009, 22:54

How to put on a backpack without injuring your back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HIpi5HQ0rQ

HavocIRL

9th June 2009, 00:03

Now that you were wearing the IPLCS out on patrols in chad, without a smock, what did you end up carrying havoc?

Everybody was different. In mine:

Left hip pouch - Medical Kit, spirigel, field dressing, face mask

Right Hip pouch - Rations

Ammo pouches - In 3 pouches, the left most ones I carried 3 magazines per pouch, in the farthest right pouch I had my cleaning kit and the 10th magazine which was usually put on my weapon anyway.

On my chest I had a utility pouch with compass, spare pocket knife, black tape, lighter, head torch and spare batteries.

I also had my own folding knife for heavy duty things in its own pouch on my chest.

On the inners of my assault vest I carried my tac aide, ID card, ROE cards as well as my language and soldier cards

i always carry tent pegs , recently a few people have said they only use twigs sticks ,,
in my youth i tried the same but i learned i was no ray mears and the time hewing mighty twigs could be best used doing personal admin or looking after the troops which in my view off set any notion of them being tactically unsound , i all ways recommend tent pegs to those i instruct , any tips on what i did wrong with the twigs / sticks ,,
but ill stick with my metal pegs either way

Goldie fish

14th June 2009, 22:01

Do you use wire(hook) pegs or stamped pegs? I find stamped pegs store better, but can be difficult to use in hard rooty ground.

Come-quickly

15th June 2009, 23:38

Do you use wire(hook) pegs or stamped pegs? I find stamped pegs store better, but can be difficult to use in hard rooty ground.

There is very little weight difference between the stamped and the machined aluminium pegs, I would tend to guide you more towards the machined because they work better. The stamped ones get quite bendy after repeated use, to the point were you can't tension your ground sheet on them.

As for carrying, the general consensus these days is to pack outer shelter all in one, i.e with the basha/groundsheet wrapped around your ground insulation with the pegs in the centre and the bungies tied on.

I've used this set up in some quite hairy weather, in the dark and found it very efficient.

A lot of the time when you see people in the DF build shelters they tend to forget about the shelter part of it.

My take would be that it's much better to have a comfortable A-frame type set up that can be collapsed when not in use rather than setting up your stood down/rest off positions as overhead cover only.

I saw this on a *sigh* non tac patrol harbour last year, obviously there are degrees of what's appropriate for what position in what scenario but from a personal admin perspective a nice flat roof and floor with no wind protection (and set up too high to be camoflaged) just doesn't make sense.

I could go on but I'll leave it to wiser, more warlike heads.

Goldie fish

15th June 2009, 23:53

The AFV tent is the way to go lads..

apod

16th June 2009, 00:05

As for carrying, the general consensus these days is to pack outer shelter all in one, i.e with the basha/groundsheet wrapped around your ground insulation with the pegs in the centre and the bungies tied on.
Until your waterproof basha gets caught on a sharp object in the back of a TCV or a barb wire fence etc.Better to keep Basha/pegs etc in the small pouch on the front of the PLCE bergan.
PS: Paracord pre attached is lighter to carry and faster and the basha folds down smaller.:wink:

My take would be that it's much better to have a comfortable A-frame type set up that can be collapsed when not in use rather than setting up your stood down/rest off positions as overhead cover only.

I saw this on a *sigh* non tac patrol harbour last year, obviously there are degrees of what's appropriate for what position in what scenario but from a personal admin perspective a nice flat roof and floor with no wind protection (and set up too high to be camoflaged) just doesn't make sense.
Couldnt agree more with those points.

greyfox

16th June 2009, 00:27

i use the round pegs as the angled ones seem to be a bit prone to bending when they meet with a tree root ,
i would nt pack the basha around the kipmat for the reasons above , i carry a brit bergan liner which i store the kip mat this is also useful for sitting on ,
but to my original question anyone ever used twigs sticks to construct a shelter and did it work ,

Goldie fish

16th June 2009, 00:30

Tried it ONCE. It failed. You need very long green twigs...

Come-quickly

16th June 2009, 00:35

i use the round pegs as the angled ones seem to be a bit prone to bending when they meet with a tree root ,
i would nt pack the basha around the kipmat for the reasons above , i carry a brit bergan liner which i store the kip mat this is also useful for sitting on ,
but to my original question anyone ever used twigs sticks to construct a shelter and did it work ,

Lesson here is - don't try and shove a peg through a tree root.

It's a matter of preference with carrying the kipmat on the outiside, you MIGHT rip it, but you will get set up faster when you need it.

For military purposes on the twig thing.

1. There mightn't always be twigs.
2. Twigs don't tent to have a lot of useful right angles in them.
3. pruning twings is time consuming and if they don't work well on that occassion, you've just wasted a lot of time on being even colder and more uncomfortable than you had to be.

My answer, just carry the same 4-6 tent pegs all the time, if you take care not to lose them you won't have a problem.

Something I'm experimenting with at the moment is having a down jacket in stuff sac in my sleeping bag compartment. I might be out in the Reeks for a night or two during the summer so it should be interesting to see how it works out in contrast to my normal layers.

Barry

16th June 2009, 00:49

Something I'm experimenting with at the moment is having a down jacket in stuff sac in my sleeping bag compartment. I might be out in the Reeks for a night or two during the summer so it should be interesting to see how it works out in contrast to my normal layers.
Wearing it instead of getting into a sleeping bag? I'd advise investing in a pair of insulated trousers too.

Docman

16th June 2009, 03:20

but ill stick with my metal pegs either way

http://www.survivalaids.com/grouppics_sa/1751-1X.jpg

A mini military basha/tent peg constructed in tough polycarbonate plastic. Very tough yet lightweight. Ideal for pitching bashas, shelters and tents - especially when you're looking to minimise weight and space. Supplied in packs of 6.

Weight: 36g (per pack) :eek::eek::eek:

Dazzler

16th June 2009, 03:59

It's a matter of preference with carrying the kipmat on the outiside, you MIGHT rip it, but you will get set up faster when you need it.

Something I'm experimenting with at the moment is having a down jacket in stuff sac in my sleeping bag compartment. I might be out in the Reeks for a night or two during the summer so it should be interesting to see how it works out in contrast to my normal layers.

I am likely to be less experienced in this than ye lads here, but, you MIGHT rip it, so you MIGHT have a big feckoff hole in the roof in your basha after you set it up marginally faster.

Also, with regard the down jacket. I presume you would have an outer layer to keep it dry yes? Does Down not get very heavy and quite useless when wet?

I was prepping my old basha kit last night. So I thought I'd share my ideas and questions as we're on the subject.
In these economically challenging times I decided to improvise an extendable basha pole last night by sawing down an old crutch I had in the shed and fitting a small spike (which I taped up so its not so sharp) to the top of it. It fits perfectly in the bergan and is relatively strong and lightweight. Just need to spray paint it black or green or both.
I've noticed I have a couple of tears in my basha, it's the lightweight DPM british army issue basha. Would anyone have any tips for repairing it? I was wondering if a bicycle repair kit might help?

Truck Driver

16th June 2009, 14:15

I was prepping my old basha kit last night. So I thought I'd share my ideas and questions as we're on the subject.
In these economically challenging times I decided to improvise an extendable basha pole last night by sawing down an old crutch I had in the shed and fitting a small spike (which I taped up so its not so sharp) to the top of it. It fits perfectly in the bergan and is relatively strong and lightweight. Just need to spray paint it black or green or both.
I've noticed I have a couple of tears in my basha, it's the lightweight DPM british army issue basha. Would anyone have any tips for repairing it? I was wondering if a bicycle repair kit might help?

RE: Basha poles. I bought a set of normal tent poles (silver) for a few bob, and wrapped
camo sticky tape around them - seems to do the job fine

Will be testing them shortly.... :smile:

RE: Basha repair - is there not kits you can get (in Brit DPM) for this purpose ?
Essentially like a bicycle repair kit, but substitute spare basha fabric for the
patches !

X-RayOne

16th June 2009, 14:49

just tape up the tear with duct tape or better again some of that camo tape people get. use black duct tape though....not the shiny grey/silver stuff.

tape both the outside and the underside of the tear to make it as waterproof as possible.

if you want to go further get some nikwax tx spray waterproofer and lay out your basha outside up. spray the entire thing with the waterproofing spray and bung it in the tumble dryer on a cool dry (check the bottle for instructions ) for an hour or so. will reproof the nylon and help rainwater bead off the basha instead of wetting out completely.

the spray on is also great for reproofing buffalo jackets and tops without affecting their breathablility for anybody that uses them in the field.

greyfox

16th June 2009, 15:58

to fix a small tear a bit of bicycle repair patch/ bit of old rubber will do the job just fine be sure to use plenty of vulcanising solution , or even silicone ,

i got one of those basha poles a fine job they are in essence just a cut down aluminum brush handle, with a top on it , if you open up where the frame of the bergan is you can shove the pole in there and it stores nicely enough

Come-quickly

16th June 2009, 21:57

Also, with regard the down jacket. I presume you would have an outer layer to keep it dry yes? Does Down not get very heavy and quite useless when wet?

The down jacket is a supplement to the sleeping system and would always be worn as a midlayer unless it's worn inside the bivvy itself which is were I'm really intent on using it.

I haven't managed to tear my basha yet - it's one of the heavier ones - I have one of the superlight ones that I got somewhere and never used. I'm all for saving weight (ahoy sawn off toothbrush) but there's something I just don't trust about the lighter weight basha.

RoyalGreenJacket

16th June 2009, 22:35

In my pockets I had my wallet, phone, keys, ......

good kit list and in the right places Havoc but please don't tell me it was a 'personal' wallet and a non-issued phone?

what happened to OpSec and sanitising your personal gear so if you are captured they won't have anything to use against you?

RGJ

hedgehog

16th June 2009, 22:40

If your bivy or poncho is ripped

go to your freindly ordanance people and ask for a bit of DET tape

its like duct tape but stronger and green

and much more flexible

HavocIRL

16th June 2009, 23:02

good kit list and in the right places Havoc but please don't tell me it was a 'personal' wallet and a non-issued phone?

what happened to OpSec and sanitising your personal gear so if you are captured they won't have anything to use against you?

RGJ

Yeah, personal wallet. Not much personal gear in my wallet just money. The phone I brought out just because I didn't want to leave it behind.

RoyalGreenJacket

16th June 2009, 23:09

fair one havoc least you are honest but just think of the consequences if they got your phone and call your loved ones (numbers already stored in your phone contacts) as they beat and torture you - that's enough to make any man say more than his name rank and number.

as for money - we've always been trained to have some of the local currency coinage taped to the cover of our notebooks so we can use a payphone if necessary and have some paper money (equiv of about £5) in local currency - not that you can get much anywhere for a fiver but you never know!

RGJ

ZULU

16th June 2009, 23:12

A fiver in Chad would be worth quite a lot I reckon.

I've stayed in areas where having that much money on you would make you a retirement package

DeV

15th September 2009, 00:28

I've got a hydration pack (worth the weight of a container full of them in gold) it only has a small pocket on the front. Its not one of the big flashy expensive ones it does what I ask of it. Its grand if I'm wearing CEFO or reduced CEMO, but, when I'm wearing CEMO if I put it anywhere else apart from either over or under the flap on the bergen, it unbalances it the bergen.

Therefore I've got a couple of cheap carabiners (one attached to the top of the hydration pack and one to the bottom), I clip them to the bergen where ever I can (I've found that the straps behind the rocket pouches are handy for this.

It means that if I want to get something out of the bergen, I may have to unclip one of the carabiners but it just takes a moment. It works for me.

Found a better way if anyone is interest? Made 2 holes in the pack part and put a bungee through.

Tips I've got from a experience recently (after trying them for the first time):
Use a gas cooker
Use a kip mat

DeV

15th September 2009, 01:01

Tip required - never had this problem before my the belt on my CEFO is working its way out of the buckle very frequently (even though wrapped back around itself) ???

smegers

15th September 2009, 01:57

Try try replacing the buckle with a roll pin.

hptmurphy

15th September 2009, 02:26

Tip required - never had this problem before my the belt on my CEFO is working its way out of the buckle very frequently (even though wrapped back around itself) ???

Buckle is over strained and needs replacement, the two prongs have been compressed to much and don't revert to their original shaper when clipped in. I've seen it happen on older belts.The omly soloution is to replace it as trying to reshape the pronges will cause them to break

concussion

15th September 2009, 13:18

If you mean that the belt iself is working itself loose while the buckle stays closed, use black tape to hold it down.

paul

15th September 2009, 17:20

Buckle is over strained and needs replacement, the two prongs have been compressed to much and don't revert to their original shaper when clipped in. I've seen it happen on older belts.The omly soloution is to replace it as trying to reshape the pronges will cause them to break

Boiling Water and bend it back gently, does work, if your patience

DeV

15th September 2009, 19:01

It isn't the buckle it is the belt itself coming out of the buckle, even when put back through.... belt tape it is. Just thought there may be a better way.

ZULU

15th September 2009, 19:06

Silly question but are you sure you have the male buckle laced up right?

If the grooves are worn down, rough it up or cut little notches/teeth in it to grip the belt web more

hedgehog

15th September 2009, 19:13

just go to a PDF CQ

most have loads of old belts and buckles hidden away for E Bay purposes or altruism

be nice and ask

fred the red

15th September 2009, 19:46

Or just go on a diet :biggrin:

DeV

15th September 2009, 19:55

Or just go on a diet :biggrin:

Actually i'd need to put on weight .... but i'm trying to lose it at the minute!

hedgehog

24th September 2009, 17:57

Technically I dont know if this comes under the heading of good tips

but I seem to recall some one asking where is a good place to buy green t shirts ( for camp when you used to do them)

These seem quiet similar to ours

and they seem fairly reasonable- I bet if you bulk bought them you would get them cheaper etc etc

on the assesments just gone, one of the troops in my section received a barbed wire puncture wound to the lower calf. They didn't notice till the top of his boot and trousers was soaked with blood. The ffd would have been useless for this wound as it would just soak up and out more blood. Luckily had my kit close and was able to tend to the wound. After having gone to the medic, came back with 6 plastic stiches and a good bandage strapping. Medic complemented the original dressing i had applied, which was nice. I put together a small basic first aid kit that i think is cheap but effective in a lot of situations usually encountered and where speed will definatley help no end.. Fits into any smock pocket/ webbing pouch. Heres the contents; 2 of 20cm x10cm melolin shiny film sided wound dressing, 2 of 10x10cm melolin sfswd, 2of 5cmx5cm melolin sfswd. 1 tri bandage, 1 x 50ml burnshield hydrogel, 10x savlon antiseptic wipes, 2 x pair viyl gloves, 1 roll medi tape, 20 x plastic stiches. Total cost is under 20 euro and can be used for both burns and lacerations. All are kept in double heavy duty ziplock bags.

piper_69

9th October 2009, 16:12

Buy a med kit from aldi and you get most of that and a pair of scissors for under a tenner.

ZULU

9th October 2009, 16:20

That ones good, but the melolin dressings can be used on burns without adding complications to the wound as one side is non porous like cling film. Coupled with the burnshield burn gel (which is the most exensive at around 10euro) they make very effective first aid treatment of burns and scalds.

The other dressing fibres will integrate with the wound as it dries and begins to heal leaving extensive scarring as well as having to remove skin with the bandage/dressing.

Also with the melolin dressings, they can be used for puncture wounds to the chest cavity in a bid to help restore or stop degradation to the chest cavity vacumn.

All helpful knowledge gleamed of two VERY knowledgeable guys (EMT/CWM)

Hello Alaska

5th November 2009, 14:50

I'd have something similar to yours Zulu with regards burn gels, dressings etc... Picked up a Mountain Leader kit from sofmilitary.co.uk. The kit itself is rather large with a good stock of various dressings etc. so I only have to use a few in my personal kit, with the rest in my locker to be used to supplement the kit when needed.

Up until now my FAK is inside my vest and personally, I feel it makes much more sense to have your FAK somewhere you or your buddy can easily reach.

In the case of the battlevest, an inside pocket isn't as ideal as the front of the vest. However, in it's infinite wisdom the DF issues a semi-modular vest with no spare pouches for you to work with. So now, it's time to start getting onto the lads in stores to see what they have lying about :tongue:

DeV

5th November 2009, 18:32

Or buy additional pouches

ZULU

5th November 2009, 19:04

Working on a patrol pack at the moment with vertical velcro strips on the inside to secure partitions inside the main compartment. 2 on each side and 3 on front and back.

The partitions are going to be made from flexible Polypropelene. (Kind of like laminating sheets of heavy grade) and weight very little. These will have velcro secured to folded edges.

The think behind it is if your carrying lots of different kit/ordanance you can keep it compartmentalised. This is for quick access to all things at the same time without having to unpack things to get at the bottom, yet having them secure at the same time. The Brit Radio patrol pack was great in that it opened up in a Clam shell design , but stuff could just spill out.

The other reason is that you can use one compartment for belted 7.62mm, all linked up to form one belt of say 200-300rds. The Mag on the move would have a belt of 50 for immediate use and ease of handling. Once in a firing position, the 2 FSG with the bag simply opens up the lid of the pack and loads the long belt into the GPMG once the inital 50rds are gone. (Which would more than likely be during the first break from contact)

This would allow sustained fire without having to try and join belts while the GPMG is going thru them.

Also when it came to moving, simply unload the long belt and grab a short 50rd belt from the 1 FSGs CEFO pouch.

The other thinking is that you can keep track of when you need to change the barrels, after each long belt or so.

Just a little project. Will let you know how it goes.

Barry

5th November 2009, 19:18

Also when it came to moving, simply unload the long belt and grab a short 50rd belt from the 1 FSGs CEFO pouch.
Of course, if the Irish army wasn't too cheap to buy pre-linked ammo with disintegrating belts this would be much easier, as you could just snap the belt at the required place. Less messing around picking belts up too.

ZULU

5th November 2009, 19:29

Of course, if the Irish army wasn't too cheap to buy pre-linked ammo with disintegrating belts this would be much easier, as you could just snap the belt at the required place. Less messing around picking belts up too.

Yes but think of the environment! And also, whats the CQ going to count?

Hello Alaska

5th November 2009, 20:32

Or buy additional pouches

Off Mr. Protac or Army Bargains? No thanks.

I'd much rather get onto the lads in stores and see what the story is, then pay over the top prices.

SwiftandSure

5th November 2009, 21:21

Zulu,
I understand where you're coming from there. Personnally, I bought this daysack/patrol pack (see attached). It gives me the ability to compartmentalise insomuch that I can strap things down in 'groups'.
I was 2 FSG on the assessments myself, and my set up was two of the pouches below on my chest rig with 150rnd belt in each, and in my daysack I had my camelbak strapped to the back of the pack and dumped the rest of the ammo (linked and boxed) in there in front of it. On the daysack itself I put the utility pouches that I would otherwise have carried on my chest, because I used the space on my rig solely for 7.62 link/5.56 mags/smoke/and weapon cleaning kit. 1 FSG just carried the 50rnd on the weapon ready to blast off.

I think the dividers you're looking into are a larger version of what's in the LMG pouches. Personally I removed mine out of the pouches.

http://www.rvops.co.uk/images/Load_Carrying/molle-lmg-pouch.jpg

SwiftandSure

5th November 2009, 21:38

Hello Alaska,

If you're looking for a small to medium sized MOLLE pouch for a FAK, you could consider this in olive green.....

http://www.uktactical.com/acatalog/SmallVerticalPouch500.jpg

LINK HERE (http://www.uktactical.com/acatalog/Small_Vertical.html)

It's 2 MOLLE loops wide and opens out fully for quick access to contents. I have one on my chest rig; it fits the SA80 cleaning kit perfectly. It costs about €10 +p&p from UK.

UK Tactical sell a medic pouch too, but it's twice as big and might be a little too big for what you want. I have one of these too, but keep it on the side of my daysack.

Someone suggested a bayonet? Do the RDF ever use them? During recruit training we were shown one that is the one and only time I can recall seeing in in the flesh so to speak!! Certainly wouldnt expect to be issued one for a 72hr ex !! Do they ever get issued to RDF?

spaceghetti

17th February 2010, 17:17

Someone suggested a bayonet? Do the RDF ever use them? During recruit training we were shown one that is the one and only time I can recall seeing in in the flesh so to speak!! Certainly wouldnt expect to be issued one for a 72hr ex !! Do they ever get issued to RDF?

Their mounted during shooting competitions.

And the PDF (and any army for that matter) barely even use bayonets themselves. They're outdated, and only useful for very close range combat.

Before they'd be handy as a tool, but that role is fulfilled by leathermans and multi-tools and such.

Why would you want one at all?

CS Gass

17th February 2010, 18:24

They have a psychological value, and generally someone conditioned to kill with a knife is going to have no trouble shooting someone, more an argument for bayonet training but still, they have a place,issue them so people are familiar with them and used to the added weight

paul

17th February 2010, 18:36

Why would you want one at all?

Tell that to the Brits in Afghanistan. They will always reasons have their usages.

Barry

17th February 2010, 19:24

They're outdated
Tell that to this guy: http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/HistoryAndHonour/BayonetchargeOfficerTellsOfFrontLineHeroics.htm

and only useful for very close range combat
Good thing all Irish soldiers have spidey senses that let them know when there's enemy around so they don't have to get anywhere near them so.

Plenty of people have been coming out with "it's an outdated weapon", usually in the run up to a conflict where the bayonet gets plenty of use.

The bayonet has real value, as a training tool to teach controlled aggression, as a psychological weapon for putting the shits up the bad guys, and as an offensive weapon, to kill in close quarters. The job of infantry is to carry the fight to the enemy, and it doesn't get much closer than at the point of a bayonet.

spaceghetti

18th February 2010, 01:09

Outdated as a tool guys :rolleyes:

Thats why i said:

They're outdated, and only useful for very close range combat.

I'm hardly going to say their useless and then say their useful am i?

I'm on about the uses the RDF would have for it. (i.e. as a multi-tool), which is what Celtic-Warrior asked.

That was probably my fault for not outlining that. :8(

CS Gass

21st February 2010, 16:48

Regarding bayonets the Steyr can use m16 bayonets right? I see protac sell them or you could buy one of those super gucci USMC ones off the net to get over the hurdle of not being issued one, it may come in handy in reserve service if you ever need to silently dispatch an incompetent officer. I myself despite what I tell others prefer to carry as little as possible even if that means doing without a lot of kit so I wont be buying one

Celtic-Warrior

23rd April 2010, 18:11

On the subject of bayonets Protac do sell the m7 bayonet which i think also fits the steyr but havin looked at asmc.de (recommended elsewhere on IMO) they are about a third of the price of protac!!!! Not that you would need one but if you wanted one id say they would be the place to go for it !!

DeV

23rd April 2010, 18:18

Or you could just draw the issue on from stores for free..... without having to try to explain why there is an M7 bayonet stuck on a Steyr!

golden rivet

24th April 2010, 11:29

Or you could just draw the issue on from stores for free..... without having to try to explain why there is an M7 bayonet stuck on a Steyr!:neek:if an accident happened you would have to explain a lot....whats the reason for buying all this kit... it could be all confiscated off you if the head honchos found out.. next thing will be people purchasing ammo:n:)

apod

11th July 2011, 11:23

Seeing as IPLCS has been on issue since 2008 i thought i might post a few tips for those lucky enough to be able to use it.These are just a few ideas i picked up over the last couple of years and a few courses completed during that time.
Anyway.Here goes.

BATTLEVEST

1/ Pack out the magazine pouches with a few empty mags to get the correct width of the pouch when packed,but first decide how many you wish to carry in each(they take three but that can be very bulky when prone) adjust the cinch strap on the packed pouch until it is tight enough that the magazines dont move when packed but that it is not so tight that you cant get a magazine back in when there is another one in the pouch.Repeat the process on the front left pouch and the front right.Then tape up ther cinch straps on both.
Now do the same for the rear left ammo pouch but if you can get an issue bayonet scabbard to go in the scabbard holder before tightening the cinch strap do so.Repeat as above.Dont tape the cinch strap on the rear right ammo pouch as this is where you keep a 50rd belt or smoke.Now tape up all the loose ends of the ammo pouch lid straps.This makes them easier to close single handed.Also make sure the velcro under the lid is esposed so you can close the lids quickly without having to buckle.

2/ Move the HE gren pouch to the MOLLE strips on the front right of the vest.Most people throw grens with their right hand so that where you want it.Move the admin pouch to the lower left side of the vest.Keep both shoulder free.Right shoulder for butt of weapon.Left for PRR.Move rank slide holder to just above Nametag.

3/ Unless operating without patrol pack( the rare occasion)dont keep your camelbak in the pouch on the vest back.If you do and you wear a fully loaded pack/Bergen over it it is uncomfortable and you risk the Camelbak bursting.

4/ Tape up the end of the padded section of each side of the vests belt to the thinner strap.This stops the "split ends" getting caught on the belt loops when you go to pull it tight.The belt can now slide unhinderd under the loops.

5/ To get the right width of the vest.Open out all the straps at the rear.Now put on Body armour and smock over it.Put on vest.Close belt as tight as you can and zip up vest.Now get a buddy to pull each set of straps as tight as possible pulling both ends of each set simultaneously so the straps are of equal lenght.Take off vest and roll each loose end as far as the retaing loops on the vests rear then tape up.Your vest is now the correct size fro when wearing CBA and smock.When those items are not worn you can pull the straps in to suit EG when just wearing a shirt .When wearing CBA etc you just loosen the strap as far as the taped/rolled ends.It should be the same fit everytime.:biggrin:

6/ When wearing the vest with patrol pack or Bergen open the clips on each lower side strap and fasten waistbelt of pack.Pull sides of vest up and over the waistbelt so you the waistbelt doesnt cut across you vest pouches.

apod

11th July 2011, 11:31

...Contd.

CAMELBAK

1/ When filling the Camelbak fill as normal.Close lid and turn bladder upside down.Now suck out all the air from the bottom of the bladder until you taste water.There is now no trapped air in the Bladder which helps reduce sloshing noise and helps reduce the chance of bursting.

2/ To clean the bladder first remove all old water traces from inside(tube also) put 6 issue Puritabs inside(or one Camelbak cleaning tablet) and 1/2 fill with lukewarm water.Close lid and shake.Suck some of the mixture into the tube(dont get in your mouth!) and then leave bladder to sit for 30 minutes.Empty and rinse with cold clean water.If really dirt remove tube and pullthrough and use cleaning brush inside bladder.NEVER put sugary drinks or powder inside the bladder as the get into all the little cavities that you cant get to and they breed bacteria.Yuck.

apod

11th July 2011, 11:41

...Contd.

Patrol Pack

1/ Tape up the loose ends of the waistbelt and chest straps by folding each end back on itself once and taping so the buckles cant be removed or slid off.

2/ Attach the two short utility straps provided with Bergen to the "daisychain" loops on the front of the pack so you can attach a roll mat or Infantry stretcher vertically on the packs front.Make sure you feedeach strap though the loops on either side of the packs fron! You can now open the main compartment without having to move either item each time.
But if you do decide to place either under the lid first fill the pack completely and loosen the under lid strap.Now place roll mat down an tighten strap as far as it will go.Roll and tape the loose end of strap.

3/ When not being used for its primary purpose the "baby" Sincgar pouch inside the patrol packs works well as a Camelbak holder.Put bottom of bladder in pouch and feed drinking out through the slot provided at the top left of pack.A small black Karabiner attached to the Left shoulder strap will stop the tube flapping around.

apod

11th July 2011, 11:54

....Contd

BERGEN (Now the fun part)

1/ First get measured using the measuring stick provided in stores.Write down the number you get.Adjust Bergen harness to corresponding number.Before you do this loosen all straps at shoulders,underarms and waist/hips.If the number you scored is 18 or below,move the shoulder adjuster straps to the two lower triglide buckles over each shoulder.Move the slider on each shoulder strap as far forward as they can go.Thus when you pull the shoulder top tensioner straps in, the Bergen should be close to you neck.Loosen straps to suit if going downhill or if you want to transfer more of the load to your hips.

2/ Put loaded Bergen on.Pull down both underarm tensioning straps and close waistbelt and pull tight.The padded ends of each side of the waistbelt should terminate just slightly forward of your hipbone on either side.If they meet in the middle they are too loose.Now get a buddy to pull the Bergen hip straps on the rear of each side of the waistbelt in as far as each will go.This keeps the bottom of the Bergen in close to your lower back and hips.Tape up each loose end of the straps.

3/ Before packing the Bergen open the lower zipped compartment.Pull the divider drawcord tight and tie off.Use the bottom compartment for your sleeping system and Bahsa/pegs etc.Keep both sleeping system and basha kit in separate bags to keep sleeping system isolated from a wet basha.

4/ Close up lower compartment and place rollmat under across lower front of bergen.Close straps and tightne and tie off using velcro retainers.

5/ Put patrol pack into main compartment.(bin the liner) If CBRN suit is carried place under patrol pack in its suit bag.If you desire feed the Camelbak(In patrol pack) drinking tube out through the slot provided in Bergen over the left shoulder.Close both drawstrings tight.

6/ There are three load tightening straps under the Bergen lid.You only need the centre one.Fold the other two's buckles back on themsleves and tape.Roll the loose ends of the corresponding straps and tape.Pull centre stap tight over fully loaded main compartment. and Roll loosed end up one or two folds and then tape.This gives you ehough loose strap to tie down an Infantry stretcher or SRAAW.

7/ Tape up all the loose ends of the lid compression straps when lid pocket is full to prevent straps coming open.

8/ Attach a Small Karabiner to front carry handle so you can attach your helmet to Bergen when not worn.

9/ The camelbak pouch on the insie of the Bergen is ideal for carrying Patrol reports or other flat items etc.

Finally make sure the side tensioning straps are not taped so that you can fit your CBA and patrol pack into Bergen together when tabbing.

I hope those Hints help although i know most RDF lads here dont use this kit.Some of ye might get the chance though and if you do these will help.For the PDF lads some of these ye might already know and some maybe new.

BANDIT

17th July 2011, 19:58

well done Apod u obviously know all about your kit, Question why wear camel pak in Ireland , its not that hot, I have soldiered in hot climes, water bottles only.. and never had to use a camel pak they probably were not invesnted then but we did practice water discipline..
Anyway when you retire from the DF I think u could get a job no problem in the likes of Louis Copelands ,, mens outfitters

SwiftandSure

17th July 2011, 20:54

A few reasons Camelbaks are preferable over water bottles because:
- you can hydrate on the move or static without taking your hand off you weapon,
- if static, (lying in wait) you're not moving your body too much to reach for the water bottle pouch
- a camelbak can carry more water
- you can fit purifying filters to a camelbak, making it easier to source drinking water
- it makes less noise than a half filled water bottle

Truck Driver

18th July 2011, 05:38

Small tip for NCOs/officers

Mark all your frequently used pages in the TAMs (e.g; Contact Report, etc)
with - and pardon me, I can't remember the technical name for these, but they
are basically page markers with an adhesive edge, to stick it
to the page, and are different colours

Then you can simply write the page title on the marker, so that when you pull
out your TAMs, you can get to the page needed immediately...

apod

18th July 2011, 16:32

well done Apod u obviously know all about your kit, Question why wear camel pak in Ireland , its not that hot, I have soldiered in hot climes, water bottles only.. and never had to use a camel pak they probably were not invesnted then but we did practice water discipline..
Anyway when you retire from the DF I think u could get a job no problem in the likes of Louis Copelands ,, mens outfitters
Camelbak points answered by S&S.(although i do think we should have retained our waterbottles aswell as they are easier to use for the likes of brewing up or washing/shaving.)Your probably right Bandit.Camelbaks are mid 80's tech i believe.A cyclist invented the sytem for drinking whilst on the bike.But i digress.If they had been available when you were active i'll bet you would have been a convert as they are very practical and handy.
As for Mr Copelands.i would be happy just to have enough cash at the moment to buy one of his cheapest suits let alone be offered a job!:8(

A few reasons Camelbaks are preferable over water bottles because:
- you can hydrate on the move or static without taking your hand off you weapon,
- if static, (lying in wait) you're not moving your body too much to reach for the water bottle pouch
- a camelbak can carry more water
- you can fit purifying filters to a camelbak, making it easier to source drinking water
- it makes less noise than a half filled water bottle
What he said:)

hptmurphy

20th July 2011, 15:49

http://www.jbsgroup.ie/html/pdfs/JBS%20ACE%20Brochure%202010.pdf

came across this today.......some nice kit in here.

morpheus

20th July 2011, 16:08

are these lads irish!!!??? wtf at the dot IE?

hptmurphy

20th July 2011, 16:17

Yep Irish based company with branches in Little Island in Cork,Monaghan,Dublin and in Derry and Belfast over the border.

They also do normal type work wear and safety stuff plus law enforcement stuff.

Never heard of them before yesterday, going through their work wear catalogue I noticed they had this in catalogue format and downloaded it.

Goldie fish

20th July 2011, 16:32

They are about with donkeys years. Formerly Known as James Boylan. Used to make the 24B boot.(JBs)

DeV

20th July 2011, 18:33

http://www.jbsgroup.ie/html/pdfs/JBS%20ACE%20Brochure%202010.pdf

came across this today.......some nice kit in here.

Always worries me when prices are included..... the mail order part of the side doesn't include the military stuff :S:S

dont think its worth its own thread but would any one know where i would pick up the eyelet piece that goes on the pull through for some 2x4?

trellheim

14th May 2012, 10:58

Why not just buy a .22 rifle cleaning kit off the net ?

Celtic-Warrior

14th May 2012, 14:11

Best thing for cleaning the barrel is a boresnake around 20yoyos ask FMolloy he might still have some!

trellheim

14th May 2012, 14:31

Never EVER lend a boresnake or if you do, prepare for stupid idiots who think it's a pull through and try and put 2x2 in it ( Yes I know there's no hole )

shanec

14th May 2012, 19:23

Why not just buy a .22 rifle cleaning kit off the net ?
was giving the pull through with the other attachments,so dont see the point in paying 20 odd euro when i only need one piece out of the kit

Celtic-Warrior

14th May 2012, 20:59

But the pull through is useless with the jag/flanalette hilder, Plus once through with a boresnake will do the job without the risk of getting it stuck ( Not personal experience but iv seen it done) Possibly an unnecessary expense but if you were involved in shooting teams or the like worth the €20

all depends on the thread that the patch holder has, they have different threads commercial jags you would buy in gun shop wont fit the us/ british military rods / pull troughs , you might have to buy from the states , the issue type is totally different to both the commercial and the nato type
,

Truck Driver

15th May 2012, 05:07

Best thing for cleaning the barrel is a boresnake around 20yoyos ask FMolloy he might still have some!

all depends on the thread that the patch holder has, they have different threads commercial jags you would buy in gun shop wont fit the us/ british military rods / pull troughs , you might have to buy from the states , the issue type is totally different to both the commercial and the nato type
,its an issue one came with the little styer oil bottle. suppose ill get my self a boresnake with all the recommendations for them.

F_M

15th May 2012, 19:35

Ask an NCO or your Q for a new flanette holder of keep an eye out for one lying around weapon stores. Bore snakes are the job but are no excuse for not giving your rifle a good proper cleaning! You can get them for as little as €10 depending on where you look.

shanec

15th May 2012, 19:37

thats who we got them off we were given what was there.

The real Jack

29th July 2012, 18:25

Re. Dry bags...One mahoosive one for the main compartment or individual bags for each item? ie Sleeping bag in one, warm kit & Socks etc in other smaller ones?

I'll be using the PLCE

Thinking about buying this (http://www.rvops.co.uk/exped-waterproof-bergen-range-black-multipack-1816.html)

apod

29th July 2012, 19:03

Re. Dry bags...One mahoosive one for the main compartment or individual bags for each item? ie Sleeping bag in one, warm kit & Socks etc in other smaller ones?

I'll be using the PLCE

Thinking about buying this (http://www.rvops.co.uk/exped-waterproof-bergen-range-black-multipack-1816.html)

With the PLCE i would go with a large drybag for the main compartment.A medium one for the side pouch you keep your spare clothes in.A stuff sack to store your rations in inside the other side pouch. A patrol pack size drybag in your daysack and smaller drybags for the likes of keeping your warm hat,gloves etc together.you could also use the Ration pack ziplock bags.They are free,strurdy and if looked after last a good while.

Another trick i have seen is to have your warm top,dossbag,spare clothes etc in different colour drybags.If you needd to find something fast it't colour coded.

The real Jack

29th July 2012, 19:17

With the PLCE i would go with a large drybag for the main compartment.

A medium one for the side pouch you keep your spare clothes in.A stuff sack to store your rations in inside the other side pouch. A patrol pack size drybag in your daysack and smaller drybags for the likes of keeping your warm hat,gloves etc together.you could also use the Ration pack ziplock bags.They are free,strurdy and if looked after last a good while.

Another trick i have seen is to have your warm top,dossbag,spare clothes etc in different colour drybags.If you needd to find something fast it't colour coded.

Thanks for the help, think I'll splash out, hopefully come next year they'll be some evolved form of RDF with compulsory fitness tests so I'll get to use it more often.

I have 2x 44L (yellow but they wont be outside the pack!) dry bags and 1 x 12L so I'll just get the bergen liner one and a couple of small ones, have a few free stuffsacks lying around to separate things when inside a dry bag. Colour coding is a good Idea.

Cheers

F_M

29th July 2012, 19:37

The DFRs state that fitness testing is mandatory for ALL DF personel. Not PDF, not RDF. Everyone.
It's the failing of reserve unit commanders that very few people in the reserve do the ITs.

Dry bags are brilliant. I have all of my kit in them ie. dry gear in one, warm gear in another. And all of them in a bigger dry bag inside the main compartment. Just remember to squeeze all of the air out before sealing them up.

I also just bought a US poncho liner and it seems to be a pretty good piece of kit. Warm enough in this weather and really light and if you attach it to the poncho it keeps the heat in better. I'm goin to keep it in my patrol pack from now on seeing as it takes up piss all space. Only thing about it though is there is no head hole for you if for some reason you are wearing your poncho and want to use the liner too.

DeV

29th July 2012, 20:18

Thanks for the help, think I'll splash out, hopefully come next year they'll be some evolved form of RDF with compulsory fitness tests so I'll get to use it more often.

I have 2x 44L (yellow but they wont be outside the pack!) dry bags and 1 x 12L so I'll just get the bergen liner one and a couple of small ones, have a few free stuffsacks lying around to separate things when inside a dry bag. Colour coding is a good Idea.

Cheers
They also have the advantage of being cheaper!!

The DFRs state that fitness testing is mandatory for ALL DF personel. Not PDF, not RDF. Everyone.
It's the failing of reserve unit commanders that very few people in the reserve do the ITs.

Dry bags are brilliant. I have all of my kit in them ie. dry gear in one, warm gear in another. And all of them in a bigger dry bag inside the main compartment. Just remember to squeeze all of the air out before sealing them up.

I also just bought a US poncho liner and it seems to be a pretty good piece of kit. Warm enough in this weather and really light and if you attach it to the poncho it keeps the heat in better. I'm goin to keep it in my patrol pack from now on seeing as it takes up piss all space. Only thing about it though is there is no head hole for you if for some reason you are wearing your poncho and want to use the liner too.

It is also a system problem:
- no stick (only carrot is courses)
- 8 MOs for the whole DF
Etc

Not excuses but reasons why more people don't do them

SwiftandSure

29th July 2012, 22:25

Tk Maxx seems to do good deals on dry bags, I bought a couple from there.

Tk Maxx seems to do good deals on dry bags, I bought a couple from there.

LIDL have them occasionally also.

The real Jack

2nd August 2012, 17:41

Anyone got a soft copy of the ARW admin in the filed flyer that was in an Cosantoir a few years ago, the PLCE one? I need a copy to spread said picture among the troops.

apod

2nd August 2012, 18:42

Anyone got a soft copy of the ARW admin in the filed flyer that was in an Cosantoir a few years ago, the PLCE one? I need a copy to spread said picture among the troops.

Stay away form that one.It is ARW selection specific and designed to put weight on a soldier BEFORE he gets issued Ammo,Ordnance etc.The STD NCO course one(2004)is better and aimed more at the Infantry.

Duffman

2nd August 2012, 18:48

LIDL have them occasionally also.

I bought the Lidl bags as they were €8 or something ridiculous and huge. The problem is they are verrrry heavy and add a lot of weight. From my experience there are two types the thicker heavy material used in dry bags like the ones you use in canoeing or diving/sailing. And the thinner bags ideal for trekking etc. I've had good ones from ortileb and webtex.

The latter tend to be better for military applications due to the reduction in weight.

I'd reccomend going for smaller bags as opposed to buying one large bag. I've found colour coding your bags and writing whats in them eg. "warm gear" helps. as opposed to rummaging around inside a big bag inside your backpack. A lot of the trekking or mil. specific bags tend also to have a see through strip on them which is handy if you don't want to write on them.

+1 On the bore snake!

The real Jack

2nd August 2012, 19:33

I bought the Lidl bags as they were €8 or something ridiculous and huge. The problem is they are verrrry heavy and add a lot of weight. From my experience there are two types the thicker heavy material used in dry bags like the ones you use in canoeing or diving/sailing. And the thinner bags ideal for trekking etc. I've had good ones from ortileb and webtex.

The latter tend to be better for military applications due to the reduction in weight.

True, the aldi 44L is nearly double the weight (320g v 580g) of a 140L exped, and because the aldi ones are so thick you have to roll them a few more times to seal it properly so you lost more space than you should.

concussion

2nd August 2012, 22:57

Tesco do a twin pack, one daysack sized, the other a little larger. Haven't tested them yet but they appear to be up to the job. Four euro.

Truck Driver

3rd August 2012, 17:58

Got myself a Bore Snake in the US before I came home recently

I also got a very nifty head torch with a white light with three levels of intensity, and a selcection of white/red light, all
without the need for changing light filters, etc

One of these:
http://www.basspro.com/Browning-Pro-Hunter-Maxus-LED-Headlamp/product/10228679/81243

May ditch dry bag here as its not necessary and use it for fleece in daysack instead of bigger dry bag

</tbody>

Comments/Obeservations anyone? The only duplicates I should have would be TP, Black tape and mozzie repellent.

Some tips that might help.
1: Should be paracorded to lower smock pocket.(Think E&E)
2: Secure to front of Yoke.No good in a pouch.
3: RCK goes in Daysack. You wont be cleaning your Weapon whilst on the move.Pullthrough in smock pocket with a bit of Flannelette in case the barrel gets clogged.
4: Keep ammo and kit separate.You go to get ammo out in a hurry you may loose kit. GPMG link can also go in a daysack side pouch so your buddy can access it.
5: Leave them where they are.You wont brew up whilst fighting.High energy food you can eat on the move goes in CEFO along with an EMERGENCY brew/ration kit.keep that simple.Must be able to eat cold.
6; Cyalumes go in daysack outer pouch.Red,green,blue,IR(if you can get) Used for marking SL's,NATO T,Casualties,bergen caches etc.One yellow one in top pocket of smock for casualty.make that an SOP.
7: Ditch that.you don't need it if you have a daysack.

Keep at least one 1 Ltr water bottle in you Bergen and one in your CEFO.Drink from your Camelbak.Brew up/hygiene/resup from your bottles. It is next to impossible and very time consuming to try and fill Mugs or mess tins from bladders.And you can loose alot of water aswell.

Other than those few small points your packing is more or less spot on.Good drills.\:)|

Buck

3rd August 2012, 22:38

Comments/Obeservations anyone? The only duplicates I should have would be TP, Black tape and mozzie repellent.

Only thing i could spot there would be the camelbak/water bladder. While they're great to have, not everyone does, what's the alternative? Large water bottle?

Also, a general observation: a drybag is a nice to have, but an expensive one. A good heavy duty black bin liner has done me and will do me for my CEMO. I have a dry bag for my patrol pack but that was on sale when I got it.

The real Jack

3rd August 2012, 22:51

Only thing i could spot there would be the camelbak/water bladder. While they're great to have, not everyone does, what's the alternative? Large water bottle?

I have 2 US style water bottles, and I should get issued a green BA style one from the friendly CQ next week. TBH I prefer the camelbak and it'll either be in my daysack or on my back if i'm not using the daysack. I'll keep one waterbottle in the bergen as back up. I'll keep an empty 2l ballygowan bottle in the bergen for resupply.

Also, a general observation: a drybag is a nice to have, but an expensive one. A good heavy duty black bin liner has done me and will do me for my CEMO. I have a dry bag for my patrol pack but that was on sale when I got it.

I've them bought now though! i'll be using them in other activities so its not money wasted for 1 ex a year.

Buck

3rd August 2012, 23:17

I have 2 US style water bottles, and I should get issued a green BA style one from the friendly CQ next week. TBH I prefer the camelbak and it'll either be in my daysack or on my back if i'm not using the daysack. I'll keep one waterbottle in the bergen as back up. I'll keep an empty 2l ballygowan bottle in the bergen for resupply.

I've them bought now though! i'll be using them in other activities so its not money wasted for 1 ex a year.

I'd love a source, I'm actually thinking of investing in one - they aren't too dear from my last investigations and they are easier than the waterbottle. That said, I do find the waterbottles useful as you can easily get a good amount of fluids on board quickly as opposed to trying to drain the last few drops from a camelbak/source. What's the story when it's nearly empty, does the water still flow quite easily?

The real Jack

3rd August 2012, 23:28

I'd love a source, I'm actually thinking of investing in one - they aren't too dear from my last investigations and they are easier than the waterbottle. That said, I do find the waterbottles useful as you can easily get a good amount of fluids on board quickly as opposed to trying to drain the last few drops from a camelbak/source. What's the story when it's nearly empty, does the water still flow quite easily?

Its a source I have actually, got it from the store here I think. With a water bladder you shouldn't need to get fluids on board quickly as you can keep drinking small amounts all day...its just way less hassle than getting the water bottle out of the pouch opening it and the reversing the process. It flows pretty easily most of the time, it'll slow down a bit when its nearly empty. Its a vacuum so you should get nearly all the water back out of it. Camelbaks might be faster, cant compare it really as my camelbak burst on my back a few years back!

Buck

3rd August 2012, 23:29

Its a source I have actually, got it from the store here I think. With a water bladder you shouldn't need to get fluids on board quickly as you can keep drinking small amounts all day...its just way less hassle than getting the water bottle out of the pouch opening it and the reversing the process. It flows pretty easily most of the time, it'll slow down a bit when its nearly empty. Camelbaks might be faster, cant compare it really as my camelbak burst on my back a few years back!

Chief reason I'm after a source tbh.

The real Jack

3rd August 2012, 23:38

Chief reason I'm after a source tbh.

I believe S&S had a similar incident with a source.

SwiftandSure

4th August 2012, 01:11

I did indeed, the source bladder is sturdy, but it was the hose that broke on me at the connection with the bladder. Luckily I had a bottle of powerade to see me through the day.
Another advantage of the Camelbak, (I'm not sute about Source) is that the interior of the bladder is lined so as not to make that sloshing sound that you'd get with a half empty water bottle. In case you were looking for a tactical incentive to switch up.

The real Jack

4th August 2012, 11:02

Another advantage of the Camelbak, (I'm not sute about Source) is that the interior of the bladder is lined so as not to make that sloshing sound

I don't think its anything to do with any lining...there's a vacum...same in source and platypus!

concussion

4th August 2012, 11:05

Squeeze all the air out of it when you fill it - as long as you don't blow air back up the tube when you drink, there won't be any space for the water to slosh around in.

apod

4th August 2012, 11:29

ANY bladder can burst .Especially if there is air trapped in it or you sit on it or put it under a heavy Patrol pack or Bergen.
After you fill it.Turn it upside down an suck on the tube until you get a mouthfull of water.This removes any trapped air.It also makes the Bladder silent.

SwiftandSure

4th August 2012, 19:19

I don't think its anything to do with any lining...there's a vacum...same in source and platypus!

Oh I know you can suck the air out to create a vacuum, which I always do. But I'm sure Id read something about the lining and its affect on noise reduction, because I remember having bought mine that I was feeling the inside of the bladder to see what the fuss was about. I know its also lined to stop bacteria sitting in the bladder too.

Vamp369

5th August 2012, 17:01

Oh I know you can suck the air out to create a vacuum, which I always do. But I'm sure Id read something about the lining and its affect on noise reduction, because I remember having bought mine that I was feeling the inside of the bladder to see what the fuss was about. I know its also lined to stop bacteria sitting in the bladder too.

An antimicrobial lining, same as Source bladders.
Also heres a link with tips on how to reduce any noise.
http://www.ehow.com/how_8427099_quiet-hydration-pack.html

The real Jack

8th August 2012, 19:53

Cheers APOD, I'll move the Swiss Army knife, I already had the pace counters on shoulder of my cefo dunno why I had it there, I've one utility pouch left empty for GPMG link(and the side pockets on the daysack) and one utility set aside for 1L of water.

Jetboil Flash currently going for €45. Un used and in packaging. Price for it in Ireland is around €95. Good bit of kit.

I've got one - not used too much to date, but agree, a fantastic piece of kit
The difference in time getting a brew using one of these versus the conventional hexi stove is amazing

kaiser

19th April 2013, 23:12

do you really need a brew that fast??
to lets say a stardard gas cooker to a jet boil for the money???

Truck Driver

19th April 2013, 23:29

do you really need a brew that fast??
to lets say a stardard gas cooker to a jet boil for the money???

Well, not just brews, getting a hot meal into ya that bit faster is no bad thing either

kaiser

19th April 2013, 23:44

ye i no not just brews im just been devils advocats time to money.
there issued in some units. another prob is on a long op would you get gas re supply

Captain Edmund Blackadder

20th April 2013, 00:01

Eat enough of thr ration packs and you supply it yourself. That, or use hexi wheb you can afford to take your time, and the jetboil when in a pinch for time, but just enough to eat. That said, i find keeping apouch in the inner smock pocket handy as it warms food to body temp. when layered up.

The real Jack

20th April 2013, 00:12

That said, i find keeping apouch in the inner smock pocket handy as it warms food to body temp. when layered up.

This x 1000, any overnight Pdf/RDF ex i've been on has been during the summer and sticking the "boil in the bag" in my pocket has done the job, I much prefer that than carrying a mug & hexi/whatever around all the time for no reason. I think it's madness to put your cooking kit in your cefo when you can leave it in your bergen.

hedgehog

20th April 2013, 00:58

Carry a bit of tin foil in our pocket, enough to wrap a boil in the bag - wrap and keep the BITB and it will heat quicker in your pocket, you can also use it asa base for your brew mug ( less admin cleaning) and it makes a handy mug / mess tin lid to boil the water quicker.

kaiser

20th April 2013, 08:52

Carrying cooking gear in cefo is common sense really.
What if you're separated from your pack for a long time
You need 24 hrs emergency drew kit
What if one of your guys goes down with hypothermia?
I,ve seen al this happen.
For the tiny bulk of a hexi or small gas cooker plus 24eme rats
I think its the sops in all units possible all armies
Its good practice

Truck Driver

20th April 2013, 14:28

eat enough of thr ration packs and you supply it yourself. That, or use hexi wheb you can afford to take your time, and the jetboil when in a pinch for time, but just enough to eat. That said, i find keeping apouch in the inner smock pocket handy as it warms food to body temp. When layered up.

lmfao... :-d

trellheim

24th June 2013, 20:12

Strong reminder : drybags if you have a couple of quid - here's 4 in different sizes, these bad boys pay off in spades and they make great pillows