Man...... I haven't read all the other responses but you're massively overthinking this. I really wouldn't do this elaborate book thing, the bracelets were cool but there's a line between nice and desperate.

Just tell her you always have fun when she's around and see if she wants to go for a coffee, if she's even remotely interested in you she'll snap your hand off, if not then problem solved and no more stress.

From your first post she's definitely into you, and coffee's hardly a declaration of love, she says no it's not like you look bad to any degree. Take opportunities while they're in front of you.

Man...... I haven't read all the other responses but you're massively overthinking this. I really wouldn't do this elaborate book thing, the bracelets were cool but there's a line between nice and desperate.

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How is this even remotely coming off at desperate? Over thinking, definitely. Somewhat more excessive than is necessary, probably. But desperate? If I had asked her out already, was turned down, and I did stuff like this, then that would be desperate. Or, you know, begging and saying things like "Please just give me a chance!" which has the added bonus of being selfish and manipulative in addition to being desperate.

I keep forgetting that I haven't been very active over the past year or two, and there are probably people around that aren't familiar with me. Being over-the-top isn't just something I do when I'm trying to impress a girl I like. I'm always over-the-top and intense. If I'm not like this when interacting with women, that would be violating the "be yourself" rule. Those that have said "just ask her out and be simple about it" are, in effect, recommending that I put on an act. If this kind of thing is out of the ordinary for someone, acting over-the-top when interested in a girl is probably a mistake. That's not the case with me though, so it's cool when I do it.

Also, the thing with the bracelets was a good idea, no one is questioning that. (If they are, they're wrong.) She was talking about how she was supposed to have gone to the Renaissance Faire with this other girl in the class who dropped it early on and how it didn't happen. (It was over at that point, otherwise I would have suggested her and I go together.) So I thought, people that like Renaissance Faires generally like chainmail as well, I make chainmail, so I made her some bracelets. It was very thoughtful and an awesome thing for me to do. Of course, had I hesitated and made a thread about it, I'm sure some people would be telling me it was a creepy thing to do and I should just ask her out for coffee.

It's more that I'm not capable of not over thinking things and I've gotten used to it. It's a pain in the ass sometimes, but it works for me, and is generally better than not thinking about something enough.

I've changed my mind, I need to read this guide now. If there's suggestions about where to go and what to do activity-wise, that could be useful and is a good idea. I also need to know what the reasoning behind coffee being a bad idea is. If it's a first date, I'd say that coffee isn't only a good idea, but the only acceptable one:

First dates usually involve a lot of talking, and coffee places are good for conversation.

Coffee shops have a very relaxed atmosphere. People are usually a bit nervous on first dates, so this helps.

There are no time restraints. If two people catch on early that they have no interest in each other, they can leave after ten minutes. If a very engaging conversation starts one can sit there for hours. Also, it's pretty easy to leave and go do something else if the mood strikes.

One for the ass holes: Even the most expensive coffee shop is still pretty cheap compared to other things. If the other person sits there an texts people the whole time rather than talking to you, you're only out $10.

A lot of people are concerned about date rape. As comedians liked to point out in the '90s, there's a Starbucks every few hundred feet. It's easy to meet up at one and then leave separately.

Most of this is true of bars as well, but drinking on a first date can be risky for a first date. Alcohol helps people relax, but it changes behavior in other ways, especially with judgment abilities. Say the date ends with sex. The next morning things might be fine, but it can also be awkward, and might even be rape.

The only downside I can really see to the coffee date is that lots of people do it, so it's boring and uncreative. Which, given everything else I've said, one would think I'd be against it. However, the benefits outweigh this one tiny downside. Also, boring and uncreative are two things I'm not, so I can easily work around it.

Ideally the coffee would be in take away cup (I forget what you call this in america, my automatic translation is on the fritz) and you would be walking down a pier or along a beach. That gives you the activity Gaith so highly values in his Guide.

However not everyone lives near a beach and there is no alternative that is acceptable. Woods, bush, gardens.. all static. At the beach you have the constant movement and sussuration of the waves. This is a white noise and visual that lulls you into a sensate state of relaxation. It will take the edge off any anxiety or awkward gaps in the conversation. It is always perfectly acceptable to stare out at the horizon and toss crap into the sea, to cover awkwardness. If you have one hand permanently occupied with a paper cup of coffee so much the better.

And we don't go to the beach every day so this is something special, your date will enjoy being there even if she doesn't particularly enjoy you. It's a +5 environment.

Ideally the coffee would be in take away cup (I forget what you call this in america, my automatic translation is on the fritz) and you would be walking down a pier or along a beach. That gives you the activity Gaith so highly values in his Guide.

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For sure. I fully approve of a coffee first date if you've got some good scenery to walk along; it's the sitting in a Starbucks or even a nicer cafe drinking an upper I object to.

If it's a first date, I'd say that coffee isn't only a good idea, but the only acceptable one ....

Most of this is true of bars as well, but drinking on a first date can be risky for a first date. Alcohol helps people relax, but it changes behavior in other ways, especially with judgment abilities. Say the date ends with sex. The next morning things might be fine, but it can also be awkward, and might even be rape.

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I've done a number of late afternoon/early evening bar first dates, and I assure you they're entirely acceptable. Also, and I mention this in the Guide, if you're boozing on a date, be an adult and pace yourself. I've found that, unless one party's really disinterested in the other, most gals will stick around for two drinks, perfect for a nice, mellow buzz in the $10 range. Assuming the first, maybe only date runs under two hours, leaving you with a fairly full evening to fill, I'd far rather be left with a nice buzz than a caffeine energy jolt.

And if a sane-seeming mildly buzzed gal happens to go home with you, the chances of her crying rape the next day are, happily, small enough to be negligible. And if she crosses the line into drunkenness on the way/once you've arrived, calling her a cab (because remember, you're still only responsibly buzzed yourself) will demonstrate your decency and trustworthiness. I'd call that a win-win myself...

So I thought, people that like Renaissance Faires generally like chainmail as well, I make chainmail, so I made her some bracelets. It was very thoughtful and an awesome thing for me to do. Of course, had I hesitated and made a thread about it, I'm sure some people would be telling me it was a creepy thing to do and I should just ask her out for coffee.

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And yet, if you'd taken that hypothetical advice, this gal might have become your girlfriend by now.

I lurk more than I post, I suppose it is because I think it is redundant offer my two cents when everyone else has, especially when threads like this give me a headache because they become more about the contemplation of the act of asking a girl out rather than sharing the outcome of the attempt.

I'm not going to give you any advice on asking the girl out, that has been done, I will say that if you do have a relationship together, there are more memorable experiences to look forward to than asking the girl out. Just as you'll have the chance to make awesome memories that will be more precious than the one you share of your first date or the agreement to partake in one.

But for the love of Pete, Sam, your sanity or God, just ask her out. And whatever happens or whatever your opinion is of my post, I challenge you to refrain from posting in this thread until you've asked the girl out!!!!!!

I've done a number of late afternoon/early evening bar first dates, and I assure you they're entirely acceptable. Also, and I mention this in the Guide, if you're boozing on a date, be an adult and pace yourself. I've found that, unless one party's really disinterested in the other, most gals will stick around for two drinks, perfect for a nice, mellow buzz in the $10 range. Assuming the first, maybe only date runs under two hours, leaving you with a fairly full evening to fill, I'd far rather be left with a nice buzz than a caffeine energy jolt.

And if a sane-seeming mildly buzzed gal happens to go home with you, the chances of her crying rape the next day are, happily, small enough to be negligible. And if she crosses the line into drunkenness on the way/once you've arrived, calling her a cab (because remember, you're still only responsibly buzzed yourself) will demonstrate your decency and trustworthiness. I'd call that a win-win myself...

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It's possible to have sex after drinking and it be fully consensual, but it is more difficult to determine, especially in a first date situation. I personally like to avoid it. If it's a woman that I've never had sex with before, no sex if she has had so much as a sip of beer. If I have, it depends on the situation.

And yet, if you'd taken that hypothetical advice, this gal might have become your girlfriend by now.

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After two weeks of dating? The phrase "not a chance in Hell" comes to mind. Had I asked her out the first day of class, at this point I'd consider using the "girlfriend" label. Whether or not I hesitate in asking someone out, I always take my time with making commitments. Not that it matters...

Guess who has a boyfriend that she neglected to mention until it was obvious that I was about to ask her out? She's mono, so that means no romantic involvement outside of that relationship. Given the conversation that followed and texting with her as I write this, I gather that things aren't quite going well. This could be a problem.

People tend to assume that being polyamorous, I don't respect the boundaries of other's relationships and that I'm okay with cheating. I only become romantically involved with the consent of everyone involved, I do not participate in cheating (I learned that lesson the first time when I found myself on the wrong end of a Desert Eagle.) She knows this now, but the boyfriend may see me as a threat and get all possessive.

Her and I are becoming friends now. If she comes to me with relationship problems, I can't turn her away. I've been in this situation before, and I have rules in place, but I am biased. I've handled things like this well before, but I've also handled them not so well. So hopefully I can do the former again if this situation becomes a problem.

Ideally the coffee would be in take away cup (I forget what you call this in america, my automatic translation is on the fritz) and you would be walking down a pier or along a beach. That gives you the activity Gaith so highly values in his Guide.

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For sure. I fully approve of a coffee first date if you've got some good scenery to walk along; it's the sitting in a Starbucks or even a nicer cafe drinking an upper I object to.

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At least that would weed out the hipsters. Five minutes into your coffee and you'd know after hearing all the chilled disdain for everything around you.

^ Ah, but if you've got a good beer in front of you, it's all the easier to gently mock their snark parade. I guess? I don't think I've ever been on a date with a hipster. There was one girl who I guessed dressed vaguely hipster-y, but she was legitimately awesome, and not at all blase...

Sorry to hear it, hombre. Still, at least you tried. Onwards and upwards, and all that.

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Sorry? I regrew the pair of testicles I very clearly had misplaced, and I'm closer to her now than I was before. It may not be what I'd ideally want right now, but that might eventually change or it might not. Either way, I've gained something here and there's nothing to be sorry about.

Although, given the polyamory thing, the situation is pretty much the same as if I was dating her, its just the restrictions are tighter. Typically, when dating someone with a primary partner, there are restrictions on sex, displays of affection, and time spent together, and it's the same here. The boundaries are a little more well defined than usual. Sex: Don't. Affection: keep it friendly, and time: we'll see. However, while more clear, boundaries aren't perfectly defined. The same types of issues are likely to come up.

Also, she hasn't told me to shut up about discussing boundaries yet. I can tell she finds it mildly annoying, but understands it's necessary. To describe the situation as bluntly as possible: I want to fuck her, her boyfriend doesn't want me to, and she promised her boyfriend she won't fuck anyone but him for the time being. I promised I'd respect the rules of their relationship, she doesn't know me well enough to know if I'll keep that promise, and I don't know her well enough to know if she keeps the promises she makes to her boyfriend, and the boyfriend and I don't know each other at all. That is a recipe for unpleasantness if not handled properly. Although, it doesn't seem like there will be any major problems here. I'm not used to that.

Also, she hasn't told me to shut up about discussing boundaries yet. I can tell she finds it mildly annoying, but understands it's necessary.

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Wait, what? You signalled you wanted to ask her out, she said she had a boyfriend, and... I guess this is when you told her you're poly, she said she's not... Maybe I'm missing something here, and granted, I'm not poly, but I hardly see why this calls for a formal discussion of boundaries, any more than her saying she wasn't interested in dating you but would like to keep being friends would.

I myself have never had a notable interest in someone already in a relationship, so I guess I don't know what it's like. All I know is watching the first two seasons of Smallville and wanting to throttle Clark until he straight-up asked Lana to dump the jock for him already.