Wednesday, August 5, 2009

Yoe Borough Minutes July 7, 2009

YOE BOROUGH PG. 1

150 NORTH MAPLE STREET

YOE, PA17313

The regular monthly meeting of Yoe Borough Council was held on July 7, 2009 at the Yoe Borough Municipal Building, 150 N. Maple Street, Yoe, PA. The meeting was called to order by Council Vice President Barry Myers at 7:01PM with the Pledge of Allegiance.

Council Members in Attendance:

Barry Myers

George Howett

Bruce Manns

Tom Allar

Seth Noll

Others in attendance:

Sandy Sterner, Secretary-Treasurer

Dana Shearer, Maintenance

John Sanford, Mayor

Pete Solymos, Solicitor

Steve Malesker, Engineer

David Naylor, Resident

Minutes

Councilman Myers asked has everyone gone over the minutes from June. If so can I have

a motion to approve them. Any corrections or changes or anything? A motion to accept the meeting minutes of June 2, 2009 by Councilman Howett. The motion was seconded by Councilman Manns. All in favor.

Visitors

Councilman Myers said I have no visitors however.Dave Naylor said from 93 E.

Pennsylvania Avenue, I don’t know if this is premature. I’d liked to express my

interest in filling out the remainder of Ronnie Crull’s term on council. I want to

offer that to you and have you consider for that. I understand that I would have to

abstain myself from the alley situation. I want to offer my time. Councilman

Myers said I haven’t heard of anyone else interested in it. Do we have sixty days

to do that? Mayor Sanford said next month. Councilman Manns said thirty days,

this has come up before.Councilman Myers said if we don’t do it, the county will

do it for us. Councilman Allar said that’s the thing, if we don’t do it , then they

will appoint. Councilman Myers said can we figure it out, how long does it take,

Visitors(cont.)Page 2

its more than thirty days. The secretary said Councilman Crull died May 12th.

Councilman Myers said June 12th is thirty days. Has anyone expressed interest that you know. The secretary said I haven’t gotten anyone contact us. Councilman Noll asked

did we ever advertise that in the paper, this position. Councilman Allar said Sam said

he was going to do it. Councilman Noll said that’s why. Councilman Myer said we’ve

got it in the minutes, so it doesn’t matter, its covered in the minutes. We have nobody

else. The secretary said the questions. Are you a registered voter, have you resided in

the borough, and he is a Republican? Doesn’t a Republican have to fill a Republican’s

seat? Mr. Naylor said yes. Solicitor Solymos said I think we ought to get a registration

to confirm that, so we don’t muddy the waters. The registration we ought to do that.

The secretary asked just call in to the county election board? Solicitor Solymos said

the county election board. We did have a Democrat go for a Republican seat in another

municipality. Councilman Allar said I don’t have a problem, just being consitent.

Councilman Myers asked who was replaced, I replaced since Alta passed away.

Councilman Allar said Seth would have been the last one. The secretary said Seth was

the last one, he took Karen Bowser’s place. Councilman Myers said why don’t we

do it this way, we can make a motion to appoint him. As soon as I get home, I have

the voter registration at home for Yoe Borough, I can check. Unless we run into a

problem. The secretary said he will be sworn in next month. Councilman Myers said

he would sworn in next month. Mr. Naylor said its my understanding that Ronnie’s seat is up for re election in November. Councilman Myers said yes. I don’t. Councilman Noll asked does he have to run in this cycle or wait until next cycle. Solicitor Solymos said

I don’t know off the top of my head, but I can tell you tomorrow. Mayor Sanford said

when I was appointed in October I ran in the November election. I was on the ballot.

The secretary asked did you have to go through the same procedures as everyone else,

get the petition signed. Councilman Myers said call down to the voters tomorrow,voters

registration, talk to Nicky, she’s the director. I don’t remember her last name. She’ll

be able to tell you what you have to do. It could be a case if not enough people ran,

we would have to reappoint you in January for the position. Don’t quote me on that, I’m

not quite sure how that works. I know you had a write in, but I didn’t see if you had enough write ins. Mr. Naylor said I don’t think I had enough write ins. Councilman Myers said it was just me to get on the ballot. The secretary said according to voter

registration, you’re the only one that is a write in for November because you had

enough write ins. You have to get so many to get on. Councilman Myers said tell her

you’re going to get sworn in next month by borough council here. And then what happens at the end of the year. And I’ll call down and do the same thing but its

better to here from her. Mr. Naylor said at voter registration. Councilman Myers said

yes. The secretary said its under York County Government. Councilman Myers said

on the York County website, its under voter registration. Councilman Manns said

the office is down in the basement of the old court house. Councilman Myers said

she is really to work with. So next month. A motion was made by Councilman

Allar to appoint David Naylor to the borough council seat of Ronald Crull. The motion

was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman Myers said so be it.

You’re welcome to stay now too. The secretary said she will send Mr. Naylor the minutes

Visitors(cont.)Page 3

next month so you will be prepared.

Solicitor Solymos said while we have Mr. Naylor here, lets talk about what he was

here for last month for. I talked to Mr. Campbell, I indicated I would, he said he hadn’t heard from you, didn’t know what his marching orders were. Since he had talked to me

about the situation, and about what was previous to last month, ethically I can’t be

dealing with you individually when I’m dealing with a lawyer. So whatever you want

to, however you want to proceed, understand that you ought to borough council, and

advise that you have another attorney, you are going to use Mr. Campbell or you are

proceeding on your own. And indicate what you are proposing to what you want to have done, and cost if any you are proposing to assume so that the municipality doesn’t have incur any legal fees or other filing costs and so forth, to accomplish the vacation of the

alley. I think, please quote me correct if I’m wrong, folks, I don’t think anyone said here, that they would indisposed to the likelihood of vacating the alley but they weren’t ready

to move until we had heard that Mr. Campbell on your behalf or otherwise. Is that an

accurate statement. Mr. Naylor said I believe so, yes. Solicitor Solymos said okay. Understand once that you are on borough council, you will have to refute yourself on any dicussions about that alley. Mr. Naylor said absolutely. Solicitor Solymos said okay.

Mr. Naylor said he should have been in contact with you, I talked to him the other day.

Solicitor Solymos said I have been in the hospital but I’ve been back in the office for

about a week or so. I haven’t heard from him yet. Tell him to call me. And we’re work

on it. I will find out what, from a legal aspect and report back to him. Mr. Naylor said

thank you.

Solicitor’s Report

ReportSolicitor Solymos said well you have my report on Mr. Naylor.

FloodSolicitor Solymos said with regard to the flood plain ordinance.

PlainWe got a letter, instructing us that someone show up at the planning

Ordinancecommission tonight. To address some concerns that the York County

Planning Commission had. But the letter didn’t say what concerns

they had. We didn’t get any comments. So that C. S. Davidson could

address those comments ahead of time. So I don’t know what is going

on with the luck of the municipality lately, we’ll probably be 90th

on the agenda and then Sam will be out of there at 11:30. Maybe

we’ll be first and maybe he’ll be back before this meeting is over.

Appeal Solicitor Solymos said you authorized me to appeal, if I thought

of it was appropriate, I think it was your idea to lean towards an

theappeal of the zoning hearing board decision. I can’t appeal a

Zoningdecision until the decision is handed down, no finding of facts of

Solicitor’s Report(Cont.)Page 4

Hearingconclusion of law have been filed as of today’s date. However I was

Boardto give you this message from Mr. Buzzendore, he won’t be calling

you back since he talked to me. He is waiting for Patty to review

and sign the findings and facts which he claims are completed.

The secretary said you know we have forty five days and Monday

was thirty eight. Solicitor Solymos said he claims he has until

the eleventh or thirteenth. The secretary asked so Sunday is not

counted. Solicitor Solymos said no Sunday is not counted. The

secretary said excuse me, Sam was here we counted with Sunday

because we were not sure. Solicitor Solymos said you get the

extra day. The secretary said you said that would be the eleventh of

July, did you say. Solicitor Solymos said that would be the thirteenth.

The secretary said the thirteenth of July. Solicitor Solymos said I

certainly would like to have it found by the tenth, and I would ask

if you could get ahold of Patty so you could find out. I also told him,

told him to send the findings and facts to the zoning officer. And.

The secretary said I sent an email out to Dan, and he didn’t get back

to me. Solicitor Solymos said just say, the signed copy can be reviewed

at the municipal building and then he at least has it out in the forty

five days. The secretary said I sent an email to Dan on Monday, as of

today I did not have an email back from him. Solicitor Solymos said

and that is what he said to tell you, getting back to you through me.

I talked to him this morning. The secretary said does Sam know this?

Solicitor Solymos said no. The secretary said I will talk to him tomorrow.

I will call Dan Shaw tomorrow to see if he has it. Solicitor Solymos said

and if not, have Dan at least get his, he’s got it done for someone to sign.

I assume he wants someone to read it and make sure he has it down the

way they wanted it. But, we’re getting very close to a deadline here.

The secretary said I know. Sam left a message with Mr. Buzzendore

two weeks ago. Solicitor Solymos said he gets exactly what he wants, if

he doesn’t get a decision by the forty fifth day. Which means, what is

concern here, you have two concerns, one what they did and two even

if its alright with what they did, what was the nature and the extent of

the condition they put on. And are those conditions appropriate. So that

has to be resolved.

New Solicitor Solymos said and last but not least, we are forging together

Datenow to get a new date for the Chronister hearing.

for the

Chronister

Hearing

FlowersSolicitor Solymos said I want to thank you all for the flowers, I truly

Solicitor’s Report(cont.)Page 5

appreciateit. As I said to some of you, I haven’t felt this

good in ten months, I don’t know why I didn’t step up.

To do something, rather than put myself down the tube.

Thinking they didn’t know what they were doing. Thank

you for all your thoughts, I genuinely appreciate it.

ReidelThe secretary said I am suppose to bring up to you that

CheckMr. Reidel has not cashed his dollar check as of the May

bank statement. Solicitor Solymos said okay, he’s still got

it, it wasn’t returned.

UncertifiedCouncilman Noll said you had asked me to look into an

Building uncertified building conditions, this was brought a couple

months ago. This was request that Red Lion had made.

And I want to pass this around, this is the language that

Red Lion is using in their final draft. What it has to do with,

Dan had concerns that he would have no way to look at

uncertified building the way the zoning ordinance was written

for the borough. I’m going to pass around two other documents

to you. One is a copy of what it means to be an uncertified

building, out of the state UCC, the uniformed construction

code that was adopted by the State of Pennsylvania. And the

second document that has administration written on the top

of it, further explains that this is what the AIA, looks at when

it looks at an uncertified building, they’re interpretation by

the architect association. And both of these documents pretty

much say the same thing. And co berate, I read through everything

in the Uniform Construction Code, what he would like us to look

out, turning into an ordinance and in my opinion, I don’t see

anything wrong at all wrong with it. And it actually gives us a lot

of ground to stand upon with the state basically puts down as law.

It just gives an another to enforce it. My recommendation would

be to look at, making it an ordinance. Solicitor Solymos said I would

need a motion to review it, make a draft for you guys have something

to look at. And then we can move to adopt it. Councilman Noll said

I make a motion that our solicitor look at the code enforcement as

brought by Red Lion Borough, for us to make an ordinance and

the legal ramifications of it and your recommendations of it to

ready that for adoption. The motion was seconded by Councilman

Allar. All in favor. Councilman Myers said so be it.

MembersCouncilman Allar said Pete, last month we had a presentation from

1stMembers 1st Credit Union. I’m not clear but there was something that

you needed to look at, or something that Sandy would get. I think

Solicitor’s Report(cont.)Page 6

there was an issue of whether or not it was legal to deposit with it.

Solicitor Solymos said I didn’t think there was a problem with

it. They would going to give you more information. The secretary

said I gave them a copy of it with their minutes. There was a letter

sent and I faxed it over to your office. Solicitor Solymos said I didn’t have a problem with it. Councilman Allar said their interest rate is

four times what PLGIT. The secretary said I think it would be a good

idea to start out with the transfer of the PLGIT accounts rather

than shipping everything, at first. I don’t have a problem with as long

as we don’t have a problem with that. Councilman Allar said the only

thing we need to discuss at some point once the account is set up,

is what do we want to put into it. There is no point of talking about it

right now, because the interest rates change all the time. Whatever is

appropriate, I guess she needs to come back and make the decision,

based on the time frame, on how we are going to need the money and

what interest rates are. The secretary said get her recommendations on

for each account what each is best. Councilman Allar said we need

her recommendation and with us, do we want to lock it up for six months

or, on this account. I don’t remember all what it was, but some of them

had some very short rates, over 2%. The secretary said she was pushing

the nine month CD because she thought would be, a good one for you

to have. That was the one, you can get the money out any time you need

it. That was a 2. something. Councilman Allar said the best of both

worlds. Councilman Myers said that’s the one I was most interested

in, especially right now. Councilman Allar said our rate is only like .5

right now. Councilman Myers said you want to talk to her about that.

Councilman Allar said first thing, is that agreement, do you want to

make a motion. Councilman Allar made a motion that Sandy do

whatever administrative that necessary for the PLGIT accounts, in

in turn open up an account, at least get us on file. And at the next

meeting have Melody to come to meeting to let us know where

we can start and put the money into the accounts. The motion was

seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor.

FlaggerCouncilman Myers said one other thing for Pete. He can review.

ForceFlagger Force, those people out there with the Stop Signs that say

stop, go, that kind of stuff. Dana wants to have a contract with them,

in case there is something that he would definitely use flaggers,

like to work with the fire company, fire police, three at a time.

Get the contract signed, it doesn’t commit us to anything, if

something would come up with an emergency. So he could get that.

Without having issues. I would like you to review this contract for

next month. It is pretty plain just looking at it. Councilman Noll asked

is it hourly or, if there is overtime? Councilman Myers said there is

Solicitor’s Report(cont.)Page 7

some overtime, holidays and stuff like that. I was told there was another

company, I don’t know who it is other than Flagger Force. Mr. Shearer

said Area Wide. Councilman Myers asked did get prices from both.

Mr. Shearer said I sent them an email but they didn’t respond. Councilman

Noll said we use them pretty regularly. Councilman Myers asked if you

can give us your opinion. Anything else for the solicitor?

OpenCouncilman Noll said I have another thing, I’m not 100% sure that this

Recordsfalls under solicitor but, I just want to make you aware of this. Going

to the Municipal Managers meeting, get everybody up to speed, York

Township is having a horrendous battle of which some of you may know,

with the open records law. They have spent literally thousands of dollars

on one in particular, but two people. And recently they were told basically

to stop everything that they are doing, pertaining records. They back the

computer system everyday, they can’t erase anything. Important files are

saved as a safe file, are saved every time. Can’t destroy anything.

Specifically things that we may want to think about. They have gone

towards emails for business, that all are distributed have to go through

York Township because of the order they were given, this is just some

experts that Elizabeth was able to give us to show, this is what came in

from the lawyer as one. Person is asking for a lot of those types of things.

They have been literally shut down. Some of the municipalities are going

to the point where there are doing bare bones minutes. Apparently this

could affect us. They are telling us, and York Township and even the

Board of Commissioners, if they make a note on something that is

handed out in the packet, they have to keep all those records. Because

those can be subpoenaed. Personal computers could be subpoenaed,

records off of those your personal computers. Solicitor Solymos said

email between Tom and John, Barry and Sam. Councilman Noll said

I just wanted you to be aware. It is extremely scary. Some of the

things they are able to do right now. York Township is going to be

a sample case for the state, unfortunately. She said its well under

$20,000.00. So. Councilman Myers said it could break a small

borough. Councilman Noll said there are some people out there with

that intent. Anti government, anti establishment. This is way or a tool,

that they’re finding out so. I don’t know if we should be doing anything

from a legal standpoint, do some changing on how we do things or

we should be looking at. Solicitor Solymos said right now I think

we’re doing right, we’re sending the email, we’re sending out the

information as we’re getting it from the state. We are keeping full

records and we’re deposing what people want. The bottom line is,

most of this is kept stuff. There isn’t a municipality where supervisors

borough council people, that were in touch with each other and thought

that was confidential between the two of them that they weren’t

Solicitor’s Report(cont.)Page 8

doing business between the two of them. But its all over, every

municipality, you get people who have an axe to grind, they

have litigation with the municipality, and you get inundated

with requests. Its interesting, I know one municipality that

I still do some work for, got requests for records from six

different people living in one subdivision. What they did,

one person would come in and ask for all the records from

the municipality, then the second person would come in,

then the third person would come in and the fourth person

would come in. Once the third person came in, the second

person had gotten, they wouldn’t give it to them because

it was already given. Who knows where all this is going,

keep making it and making it? Councilman Allar asked

aren’t some of those costs reimbursable? Solicitor

Solymos oh yes some of them are absolutely. Councilman

Allar said not just printing costs? Councilman Myers said

all that you can charge is the cost of printing the paper.

That’s about it. Solicitor Solymos said in a small municipality,

you will drive. Once someone came in. Councilman Myers

said I don’t think we have a policy at all do we. Solicitor

Solymos said yeah we do. The secretary said I have two

requests so far, the people have filled out the right to know

paperwork and paid me the money. I’ve had very good

cooperation from the people. I archive the email just like

we discussed, I’m up to June 1st with my archiving. I’m

keeping the minute tapes for one year and then recording

over them, I’m not keeping every minute tape because the

minutes are done pretty much verbatim. If anybody has

a problem with that, I think right now it’s a good way to

go so you know what is all out there. I saw where North

Codorus is going bare bones and Mark Derr has been

hired by North Codorus and Joy Strausbaugh is leaving.

Councilman Allar asked what kind of requests? The

secretary said one of was an ordinance on noise and one

was minutes request and they were charged $.50 a page.

Councilman Allar said like before. The secretary said I

did make copies like that before that, but now they have

to fill out a request and I keep it on file. Councilman Myers

said I know one employee for the township, had 86 hours

wrapped up in that in one request, that’s crazy. Solicitor

Solymos said Seth, you probably know what is involved

better than I do. Councilman Noll said I was. Solicitor

Solymos said its an ongoing development, an ongoing

battle. Councilman Noll said yeah. I bring it up to everybody,

I don’t know if we want to consider anything. I know York

Solicitor’s Report(cont.)Page 9

Township is going as far as to sign specific events to their

advisor via email, only hard core municipal business. And

the other thing is that they really, and I don’t know if we

want to take our minutes down to being more just a couple

of pages, in case it does ever come here. I mean it would

bankrupt or destroy our borough. I just want to make you

aware of it, I don’t know if we should take any official

precaution. Here you have York Township, with this,

a savvy municipality and this is crippling. And the tax payers,

I think they’ve done a smart thing, they put up on their website,

because it’s a public expense, that show who is making all

this expense. Councilman Myers said I didn’t see that. Mr.

Naylor said they were talking about making something. Councilman

Myers said I was just on the website and looking for that.

Councilman Noll said or they are getting ready to do that because

they want people to know who the tax dollars are being used.

Solicitor Solymos said I think that was one of the issues, because

they were fighting over the fact that, that should not be made

public. The people who wanted all the sunshine, didn’t want their

names put out there. I think that was one of the advisory committee

reports telling the municipality to do it. Councilman Noll said yeah.

Solicitor Solymos said that was my recollection. At this point I

think, you’re caught before a rock and a hard place. If you’re

in the middle of a pendulum swing, where its way up here and

it will come back in the middle because of abuses that occurred

when it was. The secretary said will there be any changes in the

laws since this is brand new, beginning January 1st of this year?

Will there be any updates? Solicitor Solymos said you will

be getting things, the borough associations will be updating

you on a regular basis. The secretary said I was wondering.

Solicitor Solymos said they will watch it like a hawk. Councilman

Noll said York Township is going to be a tested case. Solicitor

Solymos said and one of their newsletters will let you know what

is going on. Councilman Myers said they are, talking about their

law in Shrewsbury Township. Solicitor Solymos said one of the

things that they are thinking about doing is if a municipality

can establish that it is for vexation or harassment purposes only,

that they go after the people for damages, not only the cost but

the damages over and above the costs, semi punitive type of

damages for the harassment of the municipality. Councilman

Noll asked what is the criteria? Solicitor Solymos said that’s

the courts, I don’t think the legislature wants to touch that

with a ten foot pole, the court is going to have to make that

call. I see that coming. Councilman Noll said as Pete said, I think

Solicitor’s Report(cont.)Page 10

a lot is going to change, unfortunately York Township is going

to have its legs kicked out from under it, they happen to be

the one, probably case law will come out of all these things.

And I may, one of the request, I ask Elizabeth what happened,

may have been denied. One of the requests were for a copy

of every email that happened within the municipality. Solicitor

Solymos said its interesting, over a year ago, we got an advisory

on that, and they are fighting the same battle. We didn’t know

we had to provide that. Councilman Noll said just be very

aware of it, I hope we don’t ever have to talk about it. But I just

wanted you to know what happened in other municipalities and

find out how Pete feels. The secretary said I’ll try to let you know

quarterly what kind of requests we had that way you guys are

aware of. When I do the bank statements, I’ll say I have two

requests for example one for this and one for that and if you need

to get ahold of me, I’ll update you on it. Everybody has been

very cooperative to me, so. I haven’t had any problem. Solicitor

Solymos said most of the requests are legitimate, but what’s

happening there I don’t know Seth. Is it the chickens coming

home to roost in the municipality. Councilman Noll said well,

there, I don’t know how much. I know a little more than I would

like to say tonight. I think its a lot of vendetta, the municipality

has played certain politics from their board, and people in the

municipality are basically getting even at this point. So. But

this law is written it allows them to make the requests. Solicitor

Solymos said from the legal standpoint, all I’ve got is a law.

I don’t have any additional interpretation of that law to give

us guidance as to where its going. Councilman Noll said no

fine line as to judicial purpose. Solicitor Solymos said exactly.

No challenges, so you can’t tell. Councilman Noll said I’m

sure its coming. Solicitor Solymos said oh yeah. Councilman

Myers asked anything else for Pete.

Engineer’s Report

Councilman Myers said next is engineer’s report. Let’s introduce ourselves

a bit. You know everybody. Have you met Bruce at all? Mr. Malesker said

tonight.

Dam Mayor Sanford said on the Dam Emergency Action Plan, I submitted

EAPlate January. And they sent it back with numerous corrections . Mr.

Malesker said so you need original signatures from Dennis Sarpen.

Mayor Sanford said that’s what they’re telling me. Mr. Malesker said

I’m actually going to see him tomorrow night at the Dallastown Yoe

Engineer’s Report(cont.)Page 11

Water Authority meeting. I’m not sure what they want. Mayor

Sanford said I copied you specifically, exactly what they had

written there. It went through last time without that. I sent the

copy and updated the plan, maybe two years ago, there same

particular date edited this time that were not edited last time.

I made the other corrections, if you can help with that when

you get it back. Mr. Malesker said I’m just wondering what they

need Mr. Sarpen to sign, if he’s got a, if they want something

original document to make it work with the original signature.

Mayor Sanford said if you give me your card and tell me when

to call you tomorrow and I’ll give you the gentlman who reviewed

it. Councilman Myers said I really don’t think we should be

paying another engineering firm to make corrections on their

plan, that doesn’t make any sense to me. Mayor Sanford said I’d

like to get this handled and get this accepted with all the work

at the dam. I will like this corrected so I can send this back. Mr.

Malesker said I’ll be in all day tomorrow. Mayor Sanford said

this is the second time we sent it back so. Councilman Noll asked

said we do have the original signatures. The secretary said we

have the original in the box with the dam information.

Miti-Mr. Malesker said the big thing is the mitigation plan and I have

gationtalked to Tom about that and we actually talked with Bob Miller

Planof York Township. Seth was there too. They said, they told us

the area that they had mine, which is the Mill Creek Perserve which

is near the intersection of Chestnut Hill and Camp Betty Washington.

There is a parking lot that they put in now, there is a little wooden

bridge in that area. Jake Romig of ECCO Construction had applied

for a grant to put some wetlands there, which was unsuccessful,

to mitigate the wetlands in the area. So Tom went to the rec board

meeting, York Township Rec Board is actually the owners of that

property and from what I understand they don’t have issues with

using that area as mitigation as long as Yoe Borough pays for the

construction of the wetlands. We have an estimate of Jake said

it would cost. $7500.00 to $10,000.00 for the construction of the

wetlands. Councilman Noll said Tom went to the meeting and

got the approval of the wetland. Next Tuesday there is a meeting

before York Township, we unfortunately by letter that was

passed around last month, we are basically being told that we

have to provide them with a site or restore the wetlands within

the area we have now. According to that letter they really don’t

think its viable conditions for the conditions that exist at the

basin so. We are kind of in, between a rock and a hard place.

I’m almost positive that the York Township Board will approve

Engineer’s Report(cont.)Page 12

But when you start talking the $7500.00 to $10,000.00 for the

construction of the wetlands, we are also going to have to

do easement paperwork and additionally probably engineering

work that goes along with that, a survey of the area has to be

done, that has to put together, all those things along with the

easement documents which also have to be created. That will

probably involve some Pete’s time on the easement. They will

want to pay for the cost of that too so I want to prepare us to

do this, we could be more than $15,000.00. With legal and other

fees involved with this, all the paperwork that I mentioned, we

don’t have the money to do it but at the same point if we don’t

do it, we will be fined. Mr .Malesker said there is the monitoring

that you have to go by. Councilman Noll said we’ll have to pick

up that fee and that will be very similar to what was required for

the initial wetlands. The first two years, will be two visits per

year and I guess that will have to be determined by that plan

that is being written. The cost associated with that. The third,

fourth and fifth year it has to be monitored once per year and the

report sent in. The other thing that hasn’t been discussed, if for

some reason its washed out and the plant life destroyed we’re

responsible for new plant species. This is not a cheap thing.

Mr. Malesker said the fine is $27,500.00. I have it in the

engineer’s report, the scope of work C. S. Davidson will provide

to, they show response to the Army Corps mitigation, so phase

one is the submittal to DEP, where you select the site and they

basically have to approve it before you go through the easements

and all that, they have to approve the site and its .76 acres of

wetlands that have mitigated. So we will would be enlisted Jake

Romig’s help. And I basically went through and gave a pretty

detailed scope of services that we would provide, for Phase I,

get that submitted to DEP, our estimate is around $4600.00.

We would get everything submitted to DEP. Phase II would

to provide as built plans, the easement and monitoring that

engineering wise that will be close to $11,000.00 but that would

include the five years of monitoring that C. S. Davidson is

providing, monitoring and the yearly report. So we would provide

the yearly monitoring reports. The estimate is $11,061.00. Councilman

Noll asked for all five years? Mr. Malesker said for all five years.

That includes time to do the annual report and do the annual

inspection and the monitoring. Councilman Noll said and that won’t

be the $11,000.00 upfront what will over the five years. Mr. Malesker

said the biggest cost upfront, will be the as built surveying plan,

so that part alone is going to be $4000.00. Less than an acre.

So that gives you an idea of what the engineering costs are going to

Engineer’s Report(cont.)Page 13

be for the mitigation. Councilman Noll said you’re looking at $15,000.00

along with the land you’re looking at $25,000.00, eating up every bit

of money we have. Mr. Malesker said an then whatever time the solicitor

would have for the easement. Councilman Noll said probably another

$2500.00. So, all told, just under $30,000.00 to get the wetlands mitigated.

Mr. Malesker said within 120 days. You have to get the site selected,

construction the wetlands and all that. You have to get the process started.

Councilman Allar said there are some savings, don’t forget. We are looking

at working a deal with Red Lion. Doing some number crunching, that alone

would be saving of $20,000.00. Mr. Malesker said we called Abel Construction

and I think the estimate that Jason had assumed would be the dump site

I forget how many miles away it was going to be, but he assumed that wasn’t

going to be as close as Red Lion, that alone if it was in Red Lion, that would

save $20,000.00. Councilman Allar said in addition, if I can get the Corps

to clear it, Dana can get the Sheriff’s Department in there to clear it of

all the woody growth before we have any contact. That’s going to be

a savings. The third item is, Jason worked out the numbers that he

pulled from them, these numbers are holding up. We also got that

$11,000.00 from Ron Miller. Councilman Noll said the only correction

would be the way that the grants are written and the charge’s the way

letter is going out. We don’t know if DEP will issue until we get the

issues solved. That being said, can we use grant monies and all the

other things to pay for this? Councilman Allar said Miller’s money

can be used any way at all, absolutely no restrictions on that period.

As to the other municipalities, I feel can be used any way. There only

concern is that they don’t spend more money than in the agreement.

The Growing Greener money, the $50,000.00 at the state level, it

is going to be used, no maintenance, its going to have to be used

for engineering and construction of the dam out there as permissible.

The only restriction is that it can’t be used for the dredging up there.

In fact that is one of the restriction, even the money we have from

York County, whether it would be the intergovernmental money or

it would be the money that was added because other municipalities

didn’t do their fair share. Even that money doesn’t have any

restrictions. We have pretty much free rein. Councilman Noll said

that’s going to be a question from the commissioners as to, what

I was seeking tonight was for the commissioners is that, all this

being known by everybody, that I have the support basically for

the fact that we will pay for the construction and the fees associated

with the easement and what is required what is being required by

the Division of Dam Safety, I don’t know if that has to be in form

of a motion or not because I know we’re talking dollars and cents

with the township. I would feel more comfortable because I would

have the full support of the board, I will be obligated that we

Engineer’s Report(cont.)Page 14

have the full attention of the board. A motion was made for

Seth to go in front of the York Township Board of Commissioners

to acquire land for the wetlands and then part of the money there

is going to be a cost of at least $30,000.00, a motion to approve

to be negotiating York Township’s approval because they are

the property owner, the Mill Creek Preserve, they are willing

to relocate the wetlands in the Mill Creek Preserve, part of

that approval process. Mr Malesker said its not known of what

the wetland construction will cost , Mill Creek Preserve project

is going ahead. And I guess what will happen then, wetland

mitigation will be a change order to that project. Councilman

Allar said Mill Creek has been bid, this would be part of it, this

would be one of the specifications to that. Mr. Malesker said yes.

Councilman Noll said I just want authorization to go and negotiate

with the understanding until the whole thing is taken care of,

everything could be up to the cost of $30,000.00, I just want you

to have an understanding I don’t know if you feel when I negotiate

that I put a cap on that or up to x amount of dollars for the construction

of this. If you are comfortable, they use their estimates of $7500.00

to $10,000.00.They priced it, it was $22,000.00 for that .76 but I

just want to know. Councilman Myers said did you say you estimated

the cost of the land? Mr. Malesker said that came from ECCO Construction.

The constractor that does that type of work. Councilman Myers asked

and that is how much he’s saying? To construct the wetlands. Mr.

Malekser said the .76 acres of wetlands. A motion from the board

for Councilman Noll to represent the borough at the York Township

Board of Commissioner’s meeting by Councilman Allar. The motion

was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman Noll

abstained.

MeetingCouncilman Allar said the meeting we had with York Township

withwas not just with the wetlands, it was also about maintenance

Yorkafter the basins are constructed. Asking basically if they have

Townshipthe capability and apparently they do. Miller knows what we’re

trying to do and what type of equipment to use out there, kind

of equipment to reach out there. Have a blueprint showing what

the distances are from the dam and so forth. That does match

the capability of York Township. So physically there is no

problem, no problem with Monica Love, Bob Miller and Elizabeth

Heathcote, the staff. Nothing is in writing. Make sure we have

the abilities in front of York Township. Councilman Noll said

we have to have a maintenance program, the person who will do

the monitoring. There may be other issues in the long term that

come out of the dam project. Councilman Allar said they mentioned

Engineer’s Report(cont.)Page 15

that it would take two people and one vehicle one day. One

of the people would be Dana. Councilman Allar said I would

be inclined to believe that the maintenance agreement would

stay the same, whatever Township costs are, divided three ways.

Don’t forget any, I believe that the inspection costs for the

wetland are divided three ways.

Work withCouncilman Allar said second point as you know I’m working with

Jake RomigJake Romig. He wears a number of hats. He is on the Environmental

Advisory Council, he has his own company and is private consul

for York Township. I’m working with him. Jake doesn’t charge us.

He also knows Mike Danko. I have Jake discussing a number of things

with Mike. One of them is, how do we, exactly what response is the

Corps of Engineers looking for. This is why we have to stay close to

this. Because I suspect he’s going to have information on this. I also

have Jake asking, if we can go into the basins now we have a cease

and desist. If we can go in and clear out growth this is going to save

money and time. Another question I have is, since we kind of know

what our costs are to relocate the wetlands, there may be another

option to this, and that is there is a fund that a lot of developers and

municipalities from time to time, contribute money in, in lieu of

developing wetlands. Its not mentioned in Mike’s letter but I don’t

see why you can’t at least raise that as an option. That has a lot of

benefits to it. We still have to come up with money but once we

do that, we don’t have any consuming costs, we don’t have a maintenance

costs, we don’t have inspection costs. Councilman Myers said is this

by the municipalities? Councilman Allar said I think its federal. Mr.

Malesker said I think that was discussed at one of the York Area

Metropolitan meetings for any work that can be used. York County was

looking into it, using it for roads, interstate project, bridge project.

Can use it for mitigation on a site. It wasn’t in York County it was in

a different county. Councilman Allar said the issue is really not so

much who controls it, the point of it is what Mike Danko willing to

allow us to do. That is step one. If he says that is an option, we need

figure out what the next step is. Who controls it, how much money,

etc. Then we match that against what we know our cost are going to

be, or what we suspect our costs are going to be. So anyway, that’s

what I wanted to let you know. Along those lines, Jake has already

made contact with Mike about the cease and desist order, not willing

to discuss anything unless we send him an email. Which basically

says yes, Jake Romig is representing us on these kind of issues and

so forth, feel free to discuss them with him. So we just have to, Sandy

would have to put an email out to Mike Danko, hopefully tomorrow.

The secretary said I need an email address. Councilman Allar said

Engineer’s Report(cont.)Page 16

I already have that. Then Jake can follow up. Councilman Allar made a motion

that we provide him the authorization to represent Yoe Borough, Jake Romig

to represent Yoe Borough. The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll

All in favor. Councilman Myers said so moved. You will give that stuff to

Sandy. Mr. Malesker said I did send that to Jake, since I mentioned his name.

I did ask him also, you know how he mentioned that he would send us a permit,

an existing conditions plan that hasn’t been sent. Councilman Noll said I can

get something that would work. One thing, do we a listing or a print that shows

the existing basin. I would like to show him where the wetlands are that failed.

Mr. Malesker said yeah, we have the plan that Jason put together. Councilman

Noll said I have a copy of that. Mr. Malesker said this area, this is one area,

the other basin has a very small area of wetland also. But this is the majority

of the wetland, this shows the upper basin. Councilman Noll asked do you have

the plan that shows both basins, the shaded area representing the wetlands.

Mr. Malesker said I believe its in PDF. Councilman Noll said the other question I

have, I would like to review the maintenance agreement we have on the

dam. How do I get a copy of that? Councilman Allar said Sandy. The secretary

said you could come down and look in the box, I have the box in there.

Councilman Noll said okay. Councilman Allar said it’s a very simple one.

Councilman Noll said I just would like to read it and understand it. The

secretary said I’m pretty sure its in there. Mr. Malekser said I think that’s it.

Councilman Allar asked when did you send this to Jake? Mr. Malesker said

yesterday. Councilman Allar said I would like, email like once a week to

see if we get all the stuff. And I’ll do the same thing. If you find you’re not

getting a response, then call me.

DEPMr. Malesker said in regards to the dam, we have not heard anything from DEP

Waiverregarding the permit waiver or whatever is going to be required on the permit.

We have contacted Jack Hill several times and we haven’t heard back. So I

don’t have any updates on that. Councilman Noll said we’re looking for free?

I guess we’re not expecting to get anything yet.

DCNRMr. Malesker said on the community park, plans were submitted to DCNR.

Also attached to the engineer’s report is the tentative schedule. There was

interest in the schedule, I understand before. We’re just anticipating that

we submitted a couple weeks ahead, we resubmitted everything again

in June. Seth gave me the sealed plans, that was taken care of. We actually

had them submitted, except with the original sealed plans, then it was

resubmitted on June 25th. We are anticipating their approval any time now.

We’re anticipating bidding this in August, opening in middle of August.

Starting construction towards the end of September. The secretary asked

this end construction January, DCNR grant runs out December 31st, 2009.

Mr. Malesker said well the, the bulk of the. The secretary said I need to

have all the bills in by that date, correct? Mr. Malesker said I’ll look into

Engineer’s Report (cont.)Page 17

that. The secretary asked could you please, because I can’t get an

answer on that. Councilman Noll said if its very close to September

1st, that shouldn’t be a problem as far as. Mr. Malesker said its not

a very schedule at all . Councilman Allar said my understanding

is that the money has to be spent by December 31st, this goes back

a couple of years, they could have changed the system. That is

what my understanding is, by December 31st, the money has to be

out of our hands. Mr. Malekser said there are circumstances where

they allowed extension. Councilman Allar said I’m sure there’s always

some. The secretary asked, oh we can get an extension? Mr. Malesker

said I’ll look into that. The secretary said we ought to request that

now. Mr. Malesker said if not, we will favor a bid that the work

must be completed by, the last application for payment must be in

by December 15th. So we can be approve. The secretary said December

is a bad month for a municipality, it’s the end of the year. Councilman

Noll said I asked you about the prints. Mr. Malesker said yes, I know

there has been questions about the drainage, the plans that were submitted

show, storm pipe on them. Councilman Noll said we had actually talked

about this at one of our meetings. There is right now a large drainage

pipe that is shown from the tennis court, where we aren’t really having

a water problem at this time, all the way down. Its what like$40,000.00 ?

Mr. Malesker said $42,000.00. Councilman Noll said that shown as,

we didn’t feel would have to spent on that particular. At one point I had

asked Jason about that at one of meetings, that we were putting in the

sidewalk, and what we would we’d be able to do, that basically any

water that would have flown, put a trench in there filled with ballast

rock so we would be able to dissipate water through the water table.

Then the over flow would come over the street, come up and hit

the curb and come down and hit the first inlet box. For some reason,

he didn’t feel that was the wishes of the borough and did not remove

that from the report. Mr. Malesker said the reason that he did not move

that was because was in scope of work that was applied for on the

CDBG grant. York County Planning thought it was a good idea to

have this pipe in there, to protect this roadway and to benefit low

income people that is using the roadway. So, Jason left it on.

Councilman Allar asked how do you know that? Mr. Malesker said

that’s what York County Planning told him. Councilman Allar asked

him who? Mr. Malesker said Jason. Councilman Allar said and that

was from whom, Joiann Galiano? Mr. Malesker said I’m not sure

who it was from. That doesn’t mean that it has to stay, that was

included in the scope that was submitted to CDBG. If you get that

grant you can still use that for other things as long as it falls under

the umbrella that something CDBG would allow you to pay for.

Councilman Noll said I guess my major concern is, since everything

Engineer’s Report(cont.)Page 18

has gone to the state, and specific things were shown on the

scope of work, things like the bathrooms. If we don’t spend

it all, what chance do we have, let’s say we want to put another

element in the park, whatever, because we find we’re basically

come in low are we able to do that? Councilman Myers said

I think we just make a change. Mr. Malesker said especially

since this is basically a CDBG not a DCNR, so you have

flexibility with it and so I think what you would want to do,

you can bid it and get a price. Councilman Noll said we

sit down and bid it in so we have all the secondary items in.

Mr. Malesker said that’s how we have it set up now, separate

project and then we can just pull it, award the bid for

the construction of this without that bid item to the contractor.

Councilman Noll said then seek one or two elements for

approval of that. Mr. Malesker said right, that way you get

all the money, you get the CDBG funds. If you were to take

this out prior to that, you would be short the $42,000.00.

The idea was to leave it on so you can get that money. Councilman

Noll said I just wanted to make sure we weren’t obligated to

things. Mr. Malesker said Sam I know actually wanted the pipe too.

So it sounds like there is some conflicting interest. Councilman

Myers said as long as we get rid of the water, I don’t care if its

piped or rock. As long as we get rid of the water. Mr. Malesker

said some grading can be done here, to make this flow away,

that Seth was talking about, then the curbing and sidewalk is

constructed, then it can follow into. Councilman Noll said if

we do that, then there is a outlet where it overflows. Councilman

Allar said the water is actually handled. The way it stands now

you’re looking at somewhere around $50,000.00 on a $200,000.00

project. One out four dollars going into taking care of someone

else’s storm water. Not from Yoe Borough, not from the equipment.

We know Rexroth is going to be doing something at some point,

we know from the zoning hearing board, we saw the plan. He is

going to redirect that stormwater down towards Mill Creek sometime

in the next couple years. We also know that he made changes up there.

Dana can keep an eye on it, some homeowners can keep an eye can

keep an eye on it. Its been over a year now since early last spring since

any rain has come down over the field through Yoe Borough, and

we had a lot of rain. Now we’re talking about, the flooding we’re

having behind the fire house, the water is coming over the gabions.

Councilman Myers asked the Mother’s Day flood? Councilman Allar

said no this like three four months ago. Now even with that rainfall,

I don’t know how much it was but it was a big one. Even then the

water did not come down. He had taken corrective measures. I’m

Engineer’s Report(cont.)Page 19

worried that we are spending one out of every four dollars to fix something that

doesn’t need fixed. Mr. Malesker said there is going to be additional

runoff from some of the things that are in here but its like York County

Planning said, they thought if we provide it. Councilman Allar said

York County Planning is not going to make us build it if its not

necessary. And if we come together and say we’ve changed our minds,

they’re not going to say no. They’ve committed $100,000.00 to

renovate the park, they’ve agreed that is proper project. The specific

items, the line items underneath, we can change around without losing

the money and losing the grant. I think what we said here, do we want

to spend that much money on something that may not be needed.

Councilman Myers said I don’t think we should put in anything that is

not needed. We just want to make sure we do the rocks and everything else

or we will have a maintenance issue for our maintenance man. Councilman

Allar said that’s the other thing. Councilman Myers said we need a maintenance

plan , or a game plan for the money we spend. It is a lot easier to spend the

money than to give it back. Mr. Malesker said with $42,000.00 there is a lot

of construction you could be looking at. Councilman Allar said the 42 plus

35, you have the engineering costs. Mr. Malesker said the engineering is done.

Councilman Allar said I’m talking about engineering for overseeing the

project. Councilman Noll said that is part of the general condition. Councilman

Allar said that is still a future bill. Keep in mind, that every single source

of money, CDBG, Revitalization, DCNR,you’re not going get any more.

This is our last chance. I think it’s a waste of money go into this. And again,

he’s going to take care of any issues. Councilman Noll said my other question

does everybody sufficiently looked at this plan and understands what we will

put out for bids, we spend enough of time on it as we can. Councilman Myers

asked is the skatepark in it? Councilman Noll said that’s down by the creek

at the gabions. Councilman Allar said even if we would want one, I wouldn’t have one now with our blessing. Because I know what would happen. Mr.

Malesker said that is something to think about, I don’t think you have to

make any decisions tonight but. Councilman Myers said you’ve got to make

sure you have. Councilman Allar said here’s the reason, we have to make

decision if not tonight, whatever money we are going to get, in reducing

the scope, plus I know one other issue and that’s the bathrooms for $28,000.00.

With Kinsley and Seth most of that work has been done. Councilman Myers

said right. Councilman Allar said with $6 to $8000.00 of fixtures. There’s

another $20,000.00, plus whatever money from this stormwater thing,what

we need to do is have alternates and have to decide on that, so we don’t

lose any of the money, we can go back, and say we aren’t going to do the

stormwater but we better put something in that, for them to approve now.

There in the approval process now. Councilman Myers asked whose

them? Councilman Allar said the county and DCNR. Councilman Myers

said they haven’t seen it, I thought they have seen it. Councilman Allar

Engineer’s Report(cont.)Page 20

said they’re going to process approval, We are talking here about

close to $70,000.00 of possible alternatives. And then if we take that

out, we need something else in there. Mr. Malesker said the curb

and sidewalk is an alternate. That was added on. Councilman Noll

asked but is that going to push our approval back with these

alternates? Is that something we can work on them now, have them

and then as we have funding, get approval. Mr. Malesker said yeah,

I think you can come up with ideas, whatever gets planned for

what you want. You don’t delay the approval process, if you need

to spend the money by December 31st, you need to send it out for bid.

Councilman Noll said will you have some time, I’ll run down to

the office and look at some alternates. That way I think we need to

look at some alternates that way,we’ve got to get ready to pounce

on this because of our time period. Have some alternates that we

can send out with our bid packet to get them bid at the same time,

that way we can send it out. Mr. Malesker said yeah. Councilman

Allar said again, Dana should way in. There is I don’t know exactly,

if we need stoves, new appliances, some issues with the roof. All

these things we need to consider. Mr .Malesker said what you do

is find what is ineligible for funding. Councilman Allar said I know

one thing, cameras. Councilman Noll said skylights, I guess there

are enough skylights in that building. Mr. Shearer said it leaks enough.

Councilman Allar said again, for what its worth, forget the skatepark,

I still would like to see something for the teenagers. I mean it’s the

biggest population that is getting into trouble in this town. And we

don’t have anything. They aren’t really going to go up their on the

rides. The tennis courts are totally useless, no one plays tennis,

We don’t have a lot of ground in this town, we have tennis courts

no one uses. Councilman Manns said one of them is missing a net.

Councilman Allar said yeah, one of them is missing a net. Do we

get calls from people that say put the net up. That’s what I say its

not being used. Councilman Noll said I think, if everyone is

in agreement, I meet with C. S. Davidson, I’ll look at some alternates,

next week or the following for some alternates that qualify.

Councilman Myers asked how is the inspection going to cost us?

Mr. Malesker said I don’t know if we have an estimate for that.

Councilman Noll said we never had one, Jason didn’t work up

any estimates. Mr. Malesker said I’ll look into that. Councilman

Myers said I’m thinking of what we can do there, we can actually

use Seth as our inspector. We’ll just call you in if in when you’re

needed. Mr. Malesker said the CDBG does require a part time

inspection so we’ll need somebody. Councilman Noll said part of

it will be done by the building permits that will be obtained

for the bathrooms and pavilion. That will happen through our

Engineer’s Report(cont.)Page 21

inspectors. I don’t know how detailed that is if we could use

Dana or myself to check out equipment and things like that.

I would ask for guidelines. Councilman Myers said basically

on my projects, we had the construction meeting, that was

kind of the inspection charge. For the most part I did all of

the inspection for a lot of the project. All I’m saying, look

into it, if we can use Seth okay, inspections versus you.

Mr. Malesker said okay. Part time inspector doesn’t mean

part time you use C. S. Davidson. Councilman Myers said

right. Mr. Malesker said we have to do it in accordance.

Councilman Noll said does anyone have anymore questions?

Mr. Malesker asked do you have a copy of this? Councilman

Noll said I do but I don’t know if the borough does. Mr.

Malesker asked do you want me to leave a set here? Councilman

Myers said if you have a set available leave it here. Councilman

Noll said one of each sealed set, if you need them let me know.

You will be getting a bill for the sealed sets. I don’t know if its

going to be a problem it will actually be in my name for Kinsley.

I got it for half price. The secretary said it should have something

with Yoe Borough on it. Councilman Noll said it will say

Yoe Borough Park. I’ll bring it over, they ran it through my

account. Mr. Malesker said try to get together with me as soon

as you can, so we can bid, if we get the bids out for bid we

can issue an addendum and put the alternates in. I’d like

to look that we are advertising this in August.

GrowingMr. Malesker said I looked into this and I talked to Dana about

Greenerthis, about the Growing Greener Grant Plus Money. I know you

Plushad talked to Sean Donnelly and basically what he said basicially

is that since this wasn’t a federal or state project that you are not

illegible for grant money for it, for the Growing Greener Plus

and then for equipment. Yes, again we found another grant

through DEP, that we can get up to $25,000.00 a year for

maintenance which could be used for mowing equipment,

and that can’t be used if its not a federal project either.

They won’t consider if its not federal or state project. Mr.

Shearer said I did some research online for it, the project

that is federal is the one out there on Indian Rock Dam Road

with the Army Corps. What we got was, we got two permits

from the state to operate dams. On those permits it doesn’t

say anything about flood control. All the paper work says this

is why we want the dam but we are not, we weren’t a project

through the Army Corps of Engineers specifically for flood

control. We weren’t a project through USDA for flood

Engineer’s Report(cont.)Page 22

control. We weren’t not a project through DEP for flood control.

We built the dams with block grant money, but we didn’t use,

there’s other funding sources which would have made us illegible.

Councilman Myer said they wouldn’t give us any money when

we did that. Mr. Malesker said it wasn’t a federally mandated

project that they turned it over to Yoe Borough as its sponsor.

If it was a federal project, there would be a sign up. If there is

sign that says, federal project sponsored by Yoe Borough.

Councilman Myer said so we were shut down on both accounts.

Mr. Malesker said right. Councilman Myers said keep looking

Dana. Mr. Shearer said keeping looking Tom. Councilman

Myer said we appreciate you doing it, good try buddy. Councilman

Allar said this was blind sided thing at the last minute. Councilman

Myers said we’re trying.

Meet withMr. Malesker said Dana and I also met with Terry Sprenkle from

TerryPENN DOT today. They were in Dallastown, working

Sprenkle.with them on something. Easier to come down and look at that spring

that empties onto Main Street. And it does ice up there in the winter,

he said PENN DOT should assist in doing something there, basically

what Terry said, they don’t have the funds to do anything. And he’ll

to Steve Percety about it, but we shouldn’t really realize not to get

a whole lot of help from them. But he wants to be kept in the loop in

case there would be something that would be there. We did some

looking out there too, and need to investigate where its coming from.

Where the spring really connect. If we can do something with the

spring near the end, and eliminate that problem down there then

we wouldn’t have to do anything. Another option possibly would be

to tear the sidewalk out to that first inlet, tie that down there instead

you could bore across the street to where the inlet is over there.

I don’t know how successful that would be because of that bore.

That is something PENN DOT said, that should be done, but

said we don’t do that type of work so we can’t help you. They had

thought the stormwater was on that same side of the street, but

its not. Councilman Myers asked is it really our responsibility?

Mr. Malesker said well technically its waters of the Commonwealth,

so its not really the borough’s responsibility but it is getting on

a street in Yoe Borough and PENN DOT is not going to do anything

about it. You could just let it go. Councilman Allar said I think when

you talk to PENN DOT, you should have a file of who you talked to,

what they said. This is not going away, next year, five years from now.

It’s a development with issues. We’ll keep talking to them about it.

We better keep a file, we’ve tried to fix it. You guys should have a

little file. Mr. Malekser said I’ll document the meeting keep it

ina file. In Dallastown, he’s worked with for nine years and has not

gotten anywhere. It seems that at one time, that they is tied into the

same storm water system. Councilman Noll asked with an issue

like this, would it be good to get a political person involve, or would

that just create anger with PENN DOT. Mr. Malesker said I think

it can work, the thing is they don’t have it budget to do anything with

it now. Councilman Allar said they won’t put it in the budget for next

year, they won’t do that unless we ask them. Mr. Malesker said you

can certainly ask. If you want we can look into finding out where the

source is. Go to Dallastown, if they offer they’re to put a small camera

up in there. What we really need to do is expose where they made the

connection, need a back hoe in there. Councilman Myers asked how

would we do that with the people? Mr. Malesker said you would just

have to get a temporary easement from them. Councilman Myers

asked there is a pipe there? Mr. Malesker said yes. Mr. Shearer said

we were suppose to run the camera when that was open. When we

did the work to repair that lateral, we couldn’t get the camera past

a certain point. To get to the pipe we have to dig. Mr. Malesker said

there’s some kind of offset right there, that has settled. It’s a choke

point for the camera, they can’t get it so far and that’s it. Hopefully

they can clear that connection and snake it out as far as they can.

We need to pay someone like Fitz and Smith or someone for

services of the back hoe. Councilman Noll asked is he going to

inquire about that, dug out by hand? Mr. Malesker said it could be.

Mr. Shearer said truthfully I don’t know how deep it is. Problem

there is, I failed to get picture when they did the sewer work there.

I need to start take pictures, it always seems to comeback at us.

Councilman Myers asked can you get one of those small back hoes?

Mr. Shearer said they have a small one, a Kaboda. We could beg

Red Lion or York Township. Councilman Myers said Tom work

on that back hoe. Mr. Shearer said my thing is, we need to figure

out where the head of the spring is. Councilman Myers said those

houses up there, all had streams in them. Ronnie Crull as a kid,

he raised fish where he grew up there. Mr. Shearer said some of

them used it for refrigeration. Councilman Myers said that’s going

through someone’s basement and being pumped out. Mr. Shearer

said if its in somebody’s basement and being pumped out, getting

rid of that, the water table. Until we know. Mr. Malesker said it

needs to be investigated. Mr. Shearer said I know before, Sam saying

it comes back on us because sewer authority doing work or the water

authority doing work. Like I said to Pete, to me that is state water going

onto a state road. Does that make that somebody’s responsbilty. If it is

in a pipe that is ninety or hundred years old, that person that did that,

whose responsibility is it there. Until we find the head, we don’t know

whose responsibility it is. Like Terry Sprenkle said today, in winter

time an accident happens, we will have to find out where that water

Engineer’s Report(cont.)Page 24

comes from. They’ll going to start with PENN DOT, Yoe Borough

and everyone down the line. Councilman Myers said if not

for anything use you’ve got to watch our for the customers, the

tax payers. You don’t want anybody getting hurt, you want to try to

check that out. Mr. Malesker said if you need me for anything.

Councilman Myers said ask Dallastown if they will let us use the

T. V. camera for us and a backhoe. Mr. Malesker said when that

sewer work was done, the property owner seemed very nice.

Had some type of temporary construction easement. Councilman

Noll said Red Lion has a back hoe. Councilman Myers said I know

someone who knows how to operate a back hoe. I know where you

can get someone at $75.00 per hour for an operator, its not a back

hoe, it’s a mini excavator. Councilman Myers said I’ll make a motion

that we spend up to $500.00 from our liquid fuels account. The motion

was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Mr. Malesker said

you are dealing with storm water but it’s not a borough street. Call

Gerry Wagner. Councilman Myers said here’s who you call, I’ll give

you the phone number,324-3835. Sabold Construction, ask for Nick.

Ask for the excavator. The secretary said we need a certificate of

insurance from him too. Mr. Malesker said that’s all I had.

StimulusCouncilman Allar said I have one thing, with this stimulus money, shovel

Moneyready projects. The bridge at Mason Alley, it seems like that would be

ready to go. Mr. Malesker said what they mean by shovel ready is

plans done and permits in hand. Councilman Allar said the permits

we wouldn’t have but the plans should be. Mr. Malesker said we never

did any plans for any kind of rehab. Councilman Allar said I thought

we did have plans for the liquid fuels monies through CDBG. Mr.

Malesker said there is some scour protection that we put together. I

can look into that. Councilman Allar said if the permit is going to

hold it up obviously. Mr. Malesker said it really doesn’t make a lot of

sense, its not like a lot of municipalities have permits on a shelf waiting

for. Councilman Allar said I think most of the stimulus money is

funneled through CDBG. And as far the lucky municipalities are the ones

that have projects on the short list. When we just looked we did have

a project on the second year. but now we have nothing on the second

or third. We should have done more thought for CDBG. Dallastown

is going to be doing sidewalks on Maple Street in 2010-2011. Mr.

Shearer said about Clark Alley. Mr. Malesker said about that grant.

I know I talked to Gary Peacock, he wasn’t familiar for that type

of grant. He said there are some other things available for that if you

did want to pave Clark Alley. There are some grants out there for

that. We spoke briefly. I haven’t printed anything out yet on that.

I can still get that information together. Councilman Allar said keep

Engineer’s Report(cont.)Page 25

an eye open for bridges. This is going to get more and more

expensive. Mr. Malesker said right.

PatchCouncilman Noll said I saw that there was a patch on George Street

coming from Springwood on a sink hole. Who takes responsibility?

Mr. Shearer said here again I didn’t stop by and take a picture.

Apparently from what Mark Clark tells me, it is all coming back to

the home builder there at 39 W. George Street. They had to do

bore because PENN DOT didn’t want them to open the street. So they

bored in, taped into the York Township interceptor there to do the

sewer. We all thought that is where the problem lied because basically

in line with the man hole or a few feet away from the manhole. Apparently

when they dug it up it was not the sewer, there is a pipe there in the

ground with some water trickling out. Don’t know where it went.So,

what had happened, it started to erode the road, they filled it in and

patched it back. That contractor was working for homebuilder but

it didn’t solve the problem. Now the question is whose going to pay

for that hole, all those expensive rocks. Councilman Noll asked did

they fix the pipe, that’s not our responsibility, put some asphalt on top of

it. Mr. Shearer said I guess they did whatever, I’m just getting this from

Mark Clark when I saw him today, I guess I don’t know if Terry

Sprenkle was involved. Mr. Malesker said he had mentioned to me,

that it wasn’t a problem with the bore. He had said that put some stone

in and filled it back in. So they fixed the problem. Councilman Noll

asked but what is the source of the problem? Mr. Malesker if they

don’t know where it goes, they can’t address the issue of where it came

from. If the pipe is not connected, and theyreconnected it so there

isn’t a problem with erosion. I would think they would have addressed

that but I don’t know. Mr. Shearer said I asked Mark, he felt that it

at one time tapped into the storm drain that was near there. He said

this pipe was a lot lower elevation than the box. He didn’t feel it was

something that they had tapped into there, there again was the pipe

there for a hundred years running down the dirt road to the creek.

Look for something on that side. Councilman Noll asked is there

any grant money, to study of what the municipality has underground.

I don’t know if we have records of the town system from 50 to

100 years ago, maybe the municipality would look into that. There

are grants for that? Mr. Malekser said I have an in house list of grants.

Councilman Noll said I thought there were grants out there to get

forensic studies? Mr. Malekser said where they use ground radar

to get that. Councilman Noll said some of the stuff to find linings

of manholes and try to figure out the pipes. Councilman Allar said

its probably a homemade system. Mr. Shearer said truthfully we don’t have good records of our storm sewer drains. I’d like to see us somewhere