"Fiat money is backed by men with guns; Bitcoin is not. So why should this thing have any value?"--Uber statist economist Paul Krugman.

Wednesday, July 1, 2009

It's better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you advocate State-sponsored murder than open your mouth & remove all doubt; UPDATE

UPDATED: Delawardem has now struck out without apologizing for his call for the death penalty for offensive political speech. Read down to the last paragraph here, and find that I essentially predicted this cowardly behavior moments before it occurred.

Here is what Michael Scheuer said on the Glenn Beck show:

The only chance we have as a country right now is for Osama bin Laden to deploy and detonate a major weapon in the United States.

It is an idiotic statement--even an anti-American statement--but it is protected free speech.

If you agree with that statement, you are a traitor to the United States of America, and you deserve to be arrested, tried, and put to death in as quick a manner as possible.

Surely even Steve Newton can see that a line has been crossed.

Pressed for clarification, DD does not back down:

Our only hope is for Bin Laden to attack us again is not treason? I think it is. And if it is, the punishment for treason is death.

Before we go on, let's recognize (what a surprise) that jason jumps in to agree with the idea that tasteless or anti-American speech merits arrest, trial, and death (and again, takes the gratuitous shot at me):

If Beck is not promoting treason here, Is there such a thing as treason?

What must Republicans do to be viewed as having gone too far? Maybe instead of wishing for an attack – maybe facilitiating an attack?

Maybe a Republican like Beck would have to take part in an attack for Steve Newton and other right wingers to find that he has gone too far?

Footnote for the illiterate (that would be jason), there is a definition of treason, and it is in the US Constitution:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.

Fortunately, there is a substantial amount of case law and precedent (which you might think an attorney would know) that specifically defines aid and comfort

You're right. It is perfectly legitimate to oppose the cap and trade bill. I disagree with the bill's critics, but those critics are not traitors to the planet or to America. Maybe Krugman is being ironic himself, but I doubt it. Instead, I fear the use of hyperbolic, absolute and eliminationist rhetoric is here to stay, and Krugman is saying, "hey, if the right wing can do it for the last eight years, and during the last six months in opposition to Obama, then fuck it, I can do it too."

That same right wing cannot complain, but you and I can.

Fortunately, it is not only Steve Newton who sees the DelawareDem/jason return to calling for death to their enemies as dangerous:

Anonone:

Oh, come on now, Del Dem.

You think that guy should be executed for saying that? That wasn’t even a threat; it was just wingnut extreme craziness.

Personally, I think your suggestion that this guy or anybody who agrees with him should be “arrested, tried, and put to death in as quick a manner as possible” is much much more dangerous than what he said.

Rooting for the state to execute people for thoughts or speech is truly much closer “to the definition of hating America” than anything this clown said.

RSmitty:

Oh man. Did you just go there again? As bad as loon speech (apologies to the bird) is, execution for it? You’re going to end up apologizing more than T.O. by the time you are said-and-done!!!...

If he was explicit in orchestrating an attack, then he committed an act of war which is treasonous. In this case, he opened his mouth and diarreah came flowing out. It’s stinky, foul, and makes me want to puke, but put away the hangman’s noose. You do not want to open the door of execution over speech, ever.

Unstable Isotope:

I agree with A1 and RSmitty. Beck and Scheurer are vile, disgusting human beings but are protected by the 1st amendment.

Dorian Gray:

A1 is right. Making buffoonish remarks isn’t treason – no matter what they are. And he didn’t make a personal threat either.

Look, personally, I am so tired of these clips. These shows are clownish ‘entertainment’. It isn’t real… it’s a circus. It’s the same as Colbert only they pretend is real… for real. It’s fiction. Olbermann’s the same. The outrage is kind of tiresome actually, no offense.

I sincerely hope that neither Delawaredem nor jason issues an apology for their call for Americans with different opinions to be arrested, tried, and executed by the State, because both of them have used similar mealy-mouthed maneuvers to throw out their own version of eliminationist speech in the past and then--only when confronted--backed down.

But as they never tire of telling us: they got their message out there into the discourse.

Delawaredem got a pass from me when he apologized for his previous statements that certain groups of Americans should be rounded up and shot. Not this time.

You want a line, DD?

Here it is: by your statement you and jason have just joined Mr. Scheuer in the category of a certifiably dangerous lunatic whose political opinons deserve no weight in civilized discourse because you seriously advocate for the death of people who disagree with you.