Edible14 wrote:I think what makes sense for Arizona, if they're going to get ACab in a deal, is to also get a SS of the future. The Indians just so happen to have a bunch of those, so I wouldn't mind seeing them also get someone like Paulino in this trade if the return is big enough. So something like this makes sense to me:

D-Backs get: Cabrera, PaulinoReds get: Choo, Cord PhelpsIndians Get: Skaggs, Bauer, Stubbs (not horrible as a 3rd OF, who can be replaced mid-season if need be), Gregorious (between him and Aviles, would be a good platoon for the short-term)

That's probably a little slanted towards the Reds, so I would probably want them to kick something towards the D-Backs here.

I don't think it's that slanted to the Reds personally, though wonder if it wouldn't be a reliever from Cleveland going. They resigned Bronxton and sounds like he could close. Last year they got him for a setup role, maybe a guy like Smith to replace him there? Think the Tribe is giving up a tad much already though even with getting both Bauer and Skaggs. Really don't want to give up Paulino unless we're getting something a bit more known. Skaggs and Bauer still are specs with lots to prove. Wouldn't be the worst deal though and interesting take on it. Think your logic on the D'backs wanting a more long-term option at SS or a future SS prospect makes sense.

Obviously any number of players could get flipped, but some reports indicate a second position players along with Choo to the Reds. Seems like this deal might get done so we should find out soon enough

Edible14 wrote:I think what makes sense for Arizona, if they're going to get ACab in a deal, is to also get a SS of the future. The Indians just so happen to have a bunch of those, so I wouldn't mind seeing them also get someone like Paulino in this trade if the return is big enough. So something like this makes sense to me:

D-Backs get: Cabrera, PaulinoReds get: Choo, Cord PhelpsIndians Get: Skaggs, Bauer, Stubbs (not horrible as a 3rd OF, who can be replaced mid-season if need be), Gregorious (between him and Aviles, would be a good platoon for the short-term)

That's probably a little slanted towards the Reds, so I would probably want them to kick something towards the D-Backs here.

I don't think it's that slanted to the Reds personally, though wonder if it wouldn't be a reliever from Cleveland going. They resigned Bronxton and sounds like he could close. Last year they got him for a setup role, maybe a guy like Smith to replace him there? Think the Tribe is giving up a tad much already though even with getting both Bauer and Skaggs. Really don't want to give up Paulino unless we're getting something a bit more known. Skaggs and Bauer still are specs with lots to prove. Wouldn't be the worst deal though and interesting take on it. Think your logic on the D'backs wanting a more long-term option at SS or a future SS prospect makes sense.

Obviously any number of players could get flipped, but some reports indicate a second position players along with Choo to the Reds. Seems like this deal might get done so we should find out soon enough

ah, gotcha. If it is a position player Phelps wouldn't bother me at all. I still think he's a guy you could DFA for Reynolds even if no deal is done so moving him and getting some value in return of sorts is fine by me. Donald and Aviles are ahead of him for utility infield roles and even Diaz could be (since he can play SS better). Feel like you can get a guy like Phelps as a NRI.

Edible14 wrote:I think what makes sense for Arizona, if they're going to get ACab in a deal, is to also get a SS of the future. The Indians just so happen to have a bunch of those, so I wouldn't mind seeing them also get someone like Paulino in this trade if the return is big enough. So something like this makes sense to me:

D-Backs get: Cabrera, PaulinoReds get: Choo, Cord PhelpsIndians Get: Skaggs, Bauer, Stubbs (not horrible as a 3rd OF, who can be replaced mid-season if need be), Gregorious (between him and Aviles, would be a good platoon for the short-term)

That's probably a little slanted towards the Reds, so I would probably want them to kick something towards the D-Backs here.

I don't think it's that slanted to the Reds personally, though wonder if it wouldn't be a reliever from Cleveland going. They resigned Bronxton and sounds like he could close. Last year they got him for a setup role, maybe a guy like Smith to replace him there? Think the Tribe is giving up a tad much already though even with getting both Bauer and Skaggs. Really don't want to give up Paulino unless we're getting something a bit more known. Skaggs and Bauer still are specs with lots to prove. Wouldn't be the worst deal though and interesting take on it. Think your logic on the D'backs wanting a more long-term option at SS or a future SS prospect makes sense.

..and when you review the DBax minor league system... only Joe Munoz profiles for the DBax as a deep prospect for SS. Having a Paulino or even a Jorge Ramirez might make the Dbax Kevin Tower's heart go "pitty pat".. he is looking at a less sure choice in Didi over Asdrubal.. that, to me, asks.. is Kevin Towers that much of a risk taker on the eave of his team being able to compete in the NL West?. His decision as GM in that division could impact the DBax for years. Is this the time to gamble ? especially with the big spending Dodgers and exceptional SF Giants in his own division...?

The first step in this trade may be all that the Indians see if they're not going to get the specific SP's they want in the second trade, IF it comes to pass. If you look at what the Indians have done. They have Drew Stubbs (&his warts) patrolling CF and hitting some bombs. If he has a good season, he'll only strike out 150-160 times if he sees 500 AB's. His production from those AB has to be superior to what Choo has done. I don't know where DiDi would start if Asdrubal doesn't get moved in another trade. So, Kevin Towers holds the key to what ever the next move is.. and the Indians find themselves with two SS's on their roster.. Asdrubal can play 2B, give Kipnis the night off.. or DH, and give himself most of the nigh off, if DiDi is starting at SS. Francona's coaching will become very important at this time. Kipnis has to have a good year. Having Droobs let him rest is not a bad thing at all..

So, consider the possibilities of what the Indians are going to do if the second trade doesn't come to pass. How good was the idea of moving Asdrubal to third, like the Phillies wanted him to do, help the Indians defense.. left/right match ups and how these four guys can make themselves into a very tough, offensive IF & have glove wizardry on defense that helps the Tribe win games. I kind of like the idea that the Indians would have a group of four guys like this, all good players, they are tough "dirtbags" that love to play, and play together

thoughts.. while we wait for the next bit of news....

May not be the latest news, 30 minutes ago.CBSSport: Cabrera to Arizona for Bauer and Skaggs or another pitching prospect. (who is the other pitching prospect?)

Small note of interest... Dbax finalized the deal Brandon McCarthy. Could have been part of the hold up on a trade with the Dbax McCarthy's physical re: his recovery from that head shot courtesy of Erick Aybar.

Edible14 wrote:I think what makes sense for Arizona, if they're going to get ACab in a deal, is to also get a SS of the future. The Indians just so happen to have a bunch of those, so I wouldn't mind seeing them also get someone like Paulino in this trade if the return is big enough. So something like this makes sense to me:

D-Backs get: Cabrera, PaulinoReds get: Choo, Cord PhelpsIndians Get: Skaggs, Bauer, Stubbs (not horrible as a 3rd OF, who can be replaced mid-season if need be), Gregorious (between him and Aviles, would be a good platoon for the short-term)

That's probably a little slanted towards the Reds, so I would probably want them to kick something towards the D-Backs here.

I don't think it's that slanted to the Reds personally, though wonder if it wouldn't be a reliever from Cleveland going. They resigned Bronxton and sounds like he could close. Last year they got him for a setup role, maybe a guy like Smith to replace him there? Think the Tribe is giving up a tad much already though even with getting both Bauer and Skaggs. Really don't want to give up Paulino unless we're getting something a bit more known. Skaggs and Bauer still are specs with lots to prove. Wouldn't be the worst deal though and interesting take on it. Think your logic on the D'backs wanting a more long-term option at SS or a future SS prospect makes sense.

..and when you review the DBax minor league system... only Joe Munoz profiles for the DBax as a deep prospect for SS. Having a Paulino or even a Jorge Ramirez might make the Dbax Kevin Tower's heart go "pitty pat".. he is looking at a less sure choice in Didi over Asdrubal.. that, to me, asks.. is Kevin Towers that much of a risk taker on the eave of his team being able to compete in the NL West?. His decision as GM in that division could impact the DBax for years. Is this the time to gamble ? especially with the big spending Dodgers and exceptional SF Giants in his own division...?

The first step in this trade may be all that the Indians see if they're not going to get the specific SP's they want in the second trade, IF it comes to pass. If you look at what the Indians have done. They have Drew Stubbs (&his warts) patrolling CF and hitting some bombs. If he has a good season, he'll only strike out 150-160 times if he sees 500 AB's. His production from those AB has to be superior to what Choo has done. I don't know where DiDi would start if Asdrubal doesn't get moved in another trade. So, Kevin Towers holds the key to what ever the next move is.. and the Indians find themselves with two SS's on their roster.. Asdrubal can play 2B, give Kipnis the night off.. or DH, and give himself most of the nigh off, if DiDi is starting at SS. Francona's coaching will become very important at this time. Kipnis has to have a good year. Having Droobs let him rest is not a bad thing at all..

So, consider the possibilities of what the Indians are going to do if the second trade doesn't come to pass. How good was the idea of moving Asdrubal to third, like the Phillies wanted him to do, help the Indians defense.. left/right match ups and how these four guys can make themselves into a very tough, offensive IF & have glove wizardry on defense that helps the Tribe win games. I kind of like the idea that the Indians would have a group of four guys like this, all good players, they are tough "dirtbags" that love to play, and play together

thoughts.. while we wait for the next bit of news....

May not be the latest news, 30 minutes ago.CBSSport: Cabrera to Arizona for Bauer and Skaggs or another pitching prospect. (who is the other pitching prospect?)

Jon Morosi was on MLBNetwork, he mentioned Patrick Corbin specifically.

homerawayfromhome wrote:Hoping for Bauer if that's the trade. I like Corbin but prefer Bauer. Probably Patrick Corbin bc he seems like equal value for DiDi Gregorius.

Alright deal if they land Corbin. Good deal if it lands Bauer, IMO.

From both Bauer and Skaggs.. to not Skaggs.. to more players are involved including Donald and Bauer (wasn't he already included?) to.. another lull.. This is where CA has to step up and make sure the pitcher wants is available for the prospects and players he wants to trade. Too many times, at this juncture, one side blinks.

GoTribe028 wrote:Sounds to me like the Indians will get Patrick Corbin

I like Corbin & he's definitely ready to compete now. I'd rather have Bauer but AZ would have to be getting more than Gregorius. But, if you told me this morning we'd get Corbin & Stubbs for 1 yr of Choo + Donald, I'd have been ecstatic.

GoTribe028 wrote:Sounds to me like the Indians will get Patrick Corbin

I like Corbin & he's definitely ready to compete now. I'd rather have Bauer but AZ would have to be getting more than Gregorius. But, if you told me this morning we'd get Corbin & Stubbs for 1 yr of Choo + Donald, I'd have been ecstatic.

Agreed. Corbin isn't quite as hyped but this isn't a bad deal at all.

Plus this isn't done. We don't know the actual deal yet.

Last edited by GoTribe028 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GoTribe028 wrote:Sounds to me like the Indians will get Patrick Corbin

I don't see how Choo could net both Stubbs and Bauer, so it's gotta be Corbin. That'd be a nice deal for the Indians, in that Corbin would be a nice low-cost 3-4 starter for the next four years. Maybe you get lucky on Stubbs turning into something, but I have a good deal of friends that are Reds fans and they hate him. Regardless, the Reds don't seem to be valuing him that highly so it's a nice buy low.

What about Patrick Corbin did the DBax like?.. I mean, he was promoted before either Skaggs or Bauer.. How this:

Patrick Corbin: Potential for three legitimate plus pitches and plus command, giving him number three potential with some seasons better than that. Gets off the mound well thanks to athleticism. Both SL and CH have potential to be “go-to” pitches that he can use off his FB to get outs. Intelligent with excellent makeup and mound presence. Potential number three starter on a championship caliber team.

His plus stuff as a port sider and experience from 2012 make him an immediate SP for the Indians beginning in 2013. The best part about him is his good control and ability to immediately contribute.....

GeronimoSon wrote:What about Patrick Corbin did the DBax like?.. I mean, he was promoted before either Skaggs or Bauer.. How this:

Patrick Corbin: Potential for three legitimate plus pitches and plus command, giving him number three potential with some seasons better than that. Gets off the mound well thanks to athleticism. Both SL and CH have potential to be “go-to” pitches that he can use off his FB to get outs. Intelligent with excellent makeup and mound presence. Potential number three starter on a championship caliber team.

His plus stuff as a port sider and experience from 2012 make him an immediate SP for the Indians beginning in 2013. The best part about him is his good control and ability to immediately contribute.....

Which is exactly what the Indians were asking for. This could be a very solid get for Chris Antonetti.

I think you lessen your return by trading Choo and AC in the same deal.

If the reported Choo and Donald for one of Corbin/Bauer and Stubbs is indeed in place, then adding AC for only Bauer seems like the Tribe lose out doesn't it?

You'd be better off moving AC elsewhere for multiple arms.

Homer.. your number adds up to seven.. seems a bit rich for the Indians, though..

Daz.. While more is better, really!! with the Indians, if they're the right arms, the number doesn't matter. The Indians need to get a win with this trade and it starts with the Indians geting the guys they want, not necessarily the guys they're being offered...

homerawayfromhome wrote:Seems like the Tribe is trying to come away with at least two pitchers from this deal and that's why we are hearing 7/9 players involved.

I hope the Tribe is trying to kick in a prospect to get Corbin and Bauer.

Wishful thinking perhaps.

Probably not impossible. Just depends on who's going where. Maybe Tony Wolters (for example, just picked a name) helps ease Arizona here. If Antonetti got both Bauer and Corbin for the inclusion of an extra prospect then he almost has to make that deal

Depends on who the prospect(s) are but could see another young SS moved in this deal like Ronnie Rodriguez - I'd hate to move him - but Pitching first. I'm still hoping the Tribe walks away with Bauer and Corbin.