Utility Meter Accuracy - Home Energy Pros2015-03-31T18:53:10Zhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/forum/topics/utility-meter-accuracy?commentId=6069565%3AComment%3A89877&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHmmm...... Well, I asked the…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-26:6069565:Comment:898772012-07-26T17:14:16.264ZRod Foxhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/RodFox
<p>Hmmm...... Well, I asked the homeowner and he verified that there IS a well but it's on a community owned meter. He just gets the pressurized water into his home.</p>
<p>There were a couple of circuits in the main panel that I couldn't identify, but they didn't have any load on them when I isolated them and they certainly weren't any more than 20 amps. I will look in the main disconnect panel though. I haven't yet looked there. But again, I won't be able to do this until after August…</p>
<p>Hmmm...... Well, I asked the homeowner and he verified that there IS a well but it's on a community owned meter. He just gets the pressurized water into his home.</p>
<p>There were a couple of circuits in the main panel that I couldn't identify, but they didn't have any load on them when I isolated them and they certainly weren't any more than 20 amps. I will look in the main disconnect panel though. I haven't yet looked there. But again, I won't be able to do this until after August 8th.</p>
<p>Still waiting on the utility guy to come clean with his monitoring data...</p> Does the home have its' own w…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-26:6069565:Comment:896832012-07-26T16:27:52.957ZDavid Williamshttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/DavidWilliams
<p>Does the home have its' own well?? This can often be wired to the main service entrance which might place it in front of your metering equipment. Look to see if there is a another breaker next the 200 amp main- mine well pump breaker is 40amps. Well pumps and automated lawn irrigation can require a significant load increase an could account for the 25% discrepancy..</p>
<p>Does the home have its' own well?? This can often be wired to the main service entrance which might place it in front of your metering equipment. Look to see if there is a another breaker next the 200 amp main- mine well pump breaker is 40amps. Well pumps and automated lawn irrigation can require a significant load increase an could account for the 25% discrepancy..</p> Human error would not consist…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-25:6069565:Comment:897572012-07-25T20:17:26.579Zpeter changhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/peterchang
Human error would not consistently benefit the perpetrator. That would be called something else. Mistakes that benefit the consumer are less likely to be reported but I've never seen one.<br />
One time my home phone went dead. I checked my records and I was current on payment so I opened my NID and disconnected my house one line at a time, tested for faults, and set them aside. No problems apparent except the lack of signal (dial tone) on the company feed. I went to work. When I got home I could…
Human error would not consistently benefit the perpetrator. That would be called something else. Mistakes that benefit the consumer are less likely to be reported but I've never seen one.<br />
One time my home phone went dead. I checked my records and I was current on payment so I opened my NID and disconnected my house one line at a time, tested for faults, and set them aside. No problems apparent except the lack of signal (dial tone) on the company feed. I went to work. When I got home I could tell someone had been in the yard. I checked for dial tone and there it was, did an ID check and it was my number, so I retested each line and reattached them one at a time. Everything worked fine. My next bill was stunning. They had charged me over $400 for field tech service. I called them up and they told me that the problem had been in my house. I explained the process I had gone through that day and they said they would have to check with the technician and get back to me. At that point I also explained that if thier tech persisted in that the problem was in my home, I would need his name in order to bring charges of breaking and entering since nobody had been at home that day. I was credited on my next bill for the full amount of the service call. No one says it better than Wi…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-25:6069565:Comment:898432012-07-25T19:15:30.396ZTom DelContehttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/tomdelconte
<p>No one says it better than Wiki.:</p>
<p><span>Human error has been cited as a cause or contributing factor in disasters and accidents in industries as diverse as nuclear power (e.g., </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident" rel="nofollow" title="Three Mile Island accident">Three Mile Island accident</a><span>), aviation (see </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_error" rel="nofollow" title="Pilot error">pilot error</a><span>), space exploration…</span></p>
<p>No one says it better than Wiki.:</p>
<p><span>Human error has been cited as a cause or contributing factor in disasters and accidents in industries as diverse as nuclear power (e.g., </span><a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident" title="Three Mile Island accident">Three Mile Island accident</a><span>), aviation (see </span><a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_error" title="Pilot error">pilot error</a><span>), space exploration (e.g., </span><a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Challenger_Disaster" title="Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster" class="mw-redirect">Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster</a><span>), and medicine (see </span><a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_error" title="Medical error">medical error</a><span>). It is also important to stress that "human error" mechanisms are the same as "human performance" mechanisms; performance later categorized as 'error' is done so in hindsight:</span><sup id="cite_ref-8" class="reference"><a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_reliability#cite_note-8"></a></sup><span> therefore actions later termed "human error" are actually part of the ordinary spectrum of human behaviour. The study of </span><a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absent-mindedness" title="Absent-mindedness">absent-mindedness</a><span> in everyday life provides ample documentation and categorization of such aspects of behavior. While human error is firmly entrenched in the classical approaches to accident investigation and risk assessment, it has no role in newer approaches such as resilience engineering.</span> [so much for resilience engineering!]</p> Why don't people realize that…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-25:6069565:Comment:898422012-07-25T18:54:28.495Ztedkiddhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/tedkidd
<p>Why don't people realize that honest mistakes are only honest when you don't hide them?! Only transparency can set them free!?! </p>
<p></p>
<p>We are all human, so we all are likely to make multiple mistakes every DAY. We are all juggling a LOT of balls, isn't dropping them once in a while to be expected? Addressing a small problem up front prevents it from becoming magnified 1000's of times, turning into a Federal case. Prevents it from turning into a fire-able offense.…</p>
<p>Why don't people realize that honest mistakes are only honest when you don't hide them?! Only transparency can set them free!?! </p>
<p></p>
<p>We are all human, so we all are likely to make multiple mistakes every DAY. We are all juggling a LOT of balls, isn't dropping them once in a while to be expected? Addressing a small problem up front prevents it from becoming magnified 1000's of times, turning into a Federal case. Prevents it from turning into a fire-able offense. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Hiding an honest mistake can turn it criminal really quickly. That kind of bad judgement should get people fired. </p> An update for you all...
The…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-25:6069565:Comment:898412012-07-25T18:12:50.480ZRod Foxhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/RodFox
<p>An update for you all...</p>
<p>The utility guy has used their own 3rd party monitoring system twice now at my client's place. The first was for a week while the clients were home and the second was for a week while they were out of town and had shut off all circuits except the one for the alarm system.</p>
<p>It had been a while since I last heard from the utility guy so I sent an email with a request that he provide all of the data he'd collected. No response. I've tried calling and left…</p>
<p>An update for you all...</p>
<p>The utility guy has used their own 3rd party monitoring system twice now at my client's place. The first was for a week while the clients were home and the second was for a week while they were out of town and had shut off all circuits except the one for the alarm system.</p>
<p>It had been a while since I last heard from the utility guy so I sent an email with a request that he provide all of the data he'd collected. No response. I've tried calling and left messages. No response. Not sure what's going on with this, so I called his boss and left a message. No response yet.</p>
<p>Hmmmmm......... makes me wonder what's in that data?</p> GE seems to think electric me…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-25:6069565:Comment:896702012-07-25T16:58:57.898ZTom DelContehttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/tomdelconte
<p>GE seems to think electric meters are super-duper accurate! : <a href="http://www.geindustrial.com/Newsletter/fall05_ask.pdf" target="_blank">Ask the Ge engineer</a> . Waiting to see how your client issue plays out.</p>
<p>GE seems to think electric meters are super-duper accurate! : <a href="http://www.geindustrial.com/Newsletter/fall05_ask.pdf" target="_blank">Ask the Ge engineer</a> . Waiting to see how your client issue plays out.</p> Sorry about my pessimism, tha…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-25:6069565:Comment:895802012-07-25T03:16:19.602Zpeter changhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/peterchang
Sorry about my pessimism, that article didn't cheer me up much either. I'm not openly discussing my strategies because they are far from solutions and, although not illegal, I fear certain entities might frown on their implementation. Besides, my biggest advantage would be the element of surprise. As I suspected, the dust is starting to settle on the property of which I spoke. I will have to measure some loads but I think they were running the pool pump 24/7 and there are unbelievable…
Sorry about my pessimism, that article didn't cheer me up much either. I'm not openly discussing my strategies because they are far from solutions and, although not illegal, I fear certain entities might frown on their implementation. Besides, my biggest advantage would be the element of surprise. As I suspected, the dust is starting to settle on the property of which I spoke. I will have to measure some loads but I think they were running the pool pump 24/7 and there are unbelievable quantities of landscape lighting.<br />
I have never learned to trust the utility providers here in the Land of Enchantment, or any where for that matter, only to accept them, and watch them like a hawk. So sorry about that phishing…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-24:6069565:Comment:897432012-07-24T03:45:08.426ZRod Foxhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/RodFox
<p>So sorry about that phishing comment, Peter. I think I read your comment immediately after I read <a href="http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/global-warmings-terrifying-new-math-20120719" target="_blank">this article</a> by Bill McKibben and my blood was still boiling in anger over the whole mess. Seems our jobs in this industry might not make a difference whatsoever...</p>
<p>But I continue to plod on, 'cause it's got to make a difference...</p>
<p>Anyways, I'm still going to monitor…</p>
<p>So sorry about that phishing comment, Peter. I think I read your comment immediately after I read <a href="http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/global-warmings-terrifying-new-math-20120719" target="_blank">this article</a> by Bill McKibben and my blood was still boiling in anger over the whole mess. Seems our jobs in this industry might not make a difference whatsoever...</p>
<p>But I continue to plod on, 'cause it's got to make a difference...</p>
<p>Anyways, I'm still going to monitor this client for another complete 7 days. But this time I'll do it with another manufacturer's product. I've asked the utility guy to get me the make/model of the monitoring system they use. I'm still waiting for that reply. I'm optimistic that he will. If not, I'll suspect something is askew and become the newest Bill McKibben...</p> I don't even honestly know wh…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-24:6069565:Comment:897412012-07-24T00:59:24.862Zpeter changhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/peterchang
I don't even honestly know what phishing is. Independent monitoring is of use only if the vendor is willing to consider the possibility that their equipment could be wrong. If we were to involve an independent AUTHORITY (maybe governmental?) we might have some hope of contesting their findings. Otherwise, they can simply say we're wrong and that OUR measuring equipment is inaccurate. What is a watt? Pretty much depends on who's selling it. If you agree to buy their watt, you can only hope that…
I don't even honestly know what phishing is. Independent monitoring is of use only if the vendor is willing to consider the possibility that their equipment could be wrong. If we were to involve an independent AUTHORITY (maybe governmental?) we might have some hope of contesting their findings. Otherwise, they can simply say we're wrong and that OUR measuring equipment is inaccurate. What is a watt? Pretty much depends on who's selling it. If you agree to buy their watt, you can only hope that they will be consistent. I do have a feeling that not all of their meters will tell you the same thing.<br />
Yes, the meter of which I spoke handles the pool mechanical and I have my suspicions that the combination of the pool, the well boost pump, and the RO system may be at play here. Ther is no AC involved. This why I suspect things will settle out shortly. Also, the client has had a situation where he is suddenly being saddled with substantial quantities of retroactive billing, long story. Peter