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Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

That's one of the things I've been trying to urge caution on about Luck. Even if he's very good, the odds that he's going to be as good as Peyton are not high. The odds that one team drafts two all time greats at QB consecutively, ending up with 25+ years of star level QB play? Astronomical.

Then, the other side of that coin is to remember that you don't have to have an all time great QB to win a title. You have to have an all time great TEAM.

What the Colts are doing is like walking up to the roulette table and betting it all on double zero.

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

We are not going to find out details. This will be a press conference where both Irsay and Manning put on their good faces for the media and they will part ways.

I really doubt we will find out about the details for awhile.

This just plain sucks. The idea of Manning wear a different color just makes me sick.

Hopefully though everyone will rally around Luck and support him like they did Manning. I just worry we have to many Manning fans in Colts nation and they will turn on Luck the moment he has any struggles.

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

It is a very bad and sad move.

No matter what they offered Manning, it is irrelevant, he already structured and lowered a deal so it fit the Colts and they could keep/sign others, you now require him to revisit that?
I am 100% sure the insurance took care of his salary this passed season, so he wont have cost the Colts that much.

If he is gone I seriously hopes he goes to a team that can win it all, which would be almost any team in the league with him on it, just look at what the Colts were without him.

Luck ? you need a lot of Luck for him to succeed, and if it happens, how long, at what cost?

No matter what happens, unless Luck is on Manning's level this coming year, or the one after, there wont be any playoffs for the Colts for the next 3 or 4 years, and perhaps even longer if Luck works out less well than you all hope.

So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

If you've done 6 impossible things today?
Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

We waited so many years to cut Bob Sanders, yet cut Manning after one injured season....

Sanders was never going to cost the Colts $28M in bonus + $7M in salary for one single season. Big difference in "do-ability" there, money wise. Not to mention the cap hit the next four years that would have happened.

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Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

Welp, the bandwagon sure got lighter with a pretty big percentage of Colts fans with one leg off already.

We live in one of the most fickle sports markets in the nation. I don't know how many examples needs to be made, but the Colts better hope that they don't get stuck on the list.

The IU bandwagon got a lot lighter when Bob left, got full again when they went to the NCAA finals, and has been pretty depleted since outside of the Bloomington area. The Pacers? We all know that story. I know it's local, but no one in Muncie gives a crap about Ball State unless they're already winning. People in this area just shift to whomever is winning, or they simply don't go.

Irsay better be praying that Luck is as good as advertised, and PM doesn't go win somewhere else, or he better get used to looking at an empty stadium.

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

I am 100% sure the insurance took care of his salary this passed season, so he wont have cost the Colts that much.

I'm not sure about that Able. Actually I would be very surprised if it did and believe usually that only kicks in if someone has to retire from injury.

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

The one good thing out of this is Luck has a passion for football just like Peyton. Luck will at least put in the effort to be an elite QB.

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

Sanders was never going to cost the Colts $28M in bonus + $7M in salary for one single season. Big difference in "do-ability" there, money wise. Not to mention the cap hit the next four years that would have happened.

I understand the differences in the money. But we don't yet know what went down. Could the two sides just not reach an agreement, or did Irsay just flat out say we are going in a different direction regardless of what the numbers are? That's what I want to know. We probably won't find out today as it will be all about sentiment and remembering the past. But sooner or later I think some details will get leaked

Manning is a practical guy and I just have a hard time believing that he wasn't willing to restructure the contract.

I was a bit optimistic over these last few weeks, especially when the video was released of him throwing. I just had a hard time believing Irsay would allow a healthy Manning to go somewhere else.

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

RWB I happen to know in Basketball they definitely do insure the players for this, I would be shaken in my beliefs if the NFL teams had no such thing.
It would be impossible to replace players otherwise on long stretches like Manning, or like what happened to Sanders, cost would be prohibitive.

Also in bb, if players represent their country the major stumblingblocks for the countries are the insurance premiums they have to pay for those periods of time.

So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

If you've done 6 impossible things today?
Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

For those who think the team was so much better two years ago (with Manning) than last year (without Manning) I want to do a little recap. Please don't take this as a knock on Manning. I just want to show that the 2010 team was not a world beater, nor was the 2011 team total despair.

The 2010 team finished the regular season 10-6. Five of those wins were by less than a touchdown. Those were wins by 3-6-2-5-3 points. There were also two other wins by 10 points each. Hardly a season long dominating team.

The 2011 team finished the regular season 2-14. Five of those loses were by a touchdown or less. Those loses were by 3-7-4-7-6 points. Two more loses were by 8 points each, and one additional loss was by 10 points.

Yes, the 2011 team suffered a couple blow-outs, but in all honesty, if that team had even a decent quarterback, they could have finished the season 9-7, or even 10-6.

Yes 10-6. The very same record the 2010 team had.

So, while the absence of Manning certainly contributed to the poor record of last year (and we all would have preferred to see him play), I would argue that the 2011 team was not that far off from having a pretty good record. Give them a better replacement quarterback and the whole season would have looked different.

I'll sum this up with one thought. While we are all sad to have Manning miss the season, let alone be leaving, we should be angry as heck that we had to watch Painter play. What a difference a decent back-up for Manning would have made.

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

Manning is a practical guy and I just have a hard time believing that he wasn't willing to restructure the contract.

Very true but Peyton does have an ego too. I think his (Peyton's) decision was made when Irsay told him Luck was going to be the pick.

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

Since Peyton negotiated his contract with the specter of surgery looming, even if there is contact insurance in the NFL, would they have been able to get insurance on a contract when it's known going in that the player will have surgery for a neck/nerve issue?

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

I still don't understand how you don't want to pay him 28mil? I'm pretty sure he makes the Colts way more than that in ticket sales advertisement and anything he does, why would you let New York or any other team capitalize from having Peyton Manning on their team? this is stupid.

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

I understand the differences in the money. But we don't yet know what went down. Could the two sides just not reach an agreement, or did Irsay just flat out say we are going in a different direction regardless of what the numbers are? That's what I want to know. We probably won't find out today as it will be all about sentiment and remembering the past. But sooner or later I think some details will get leaked

Manning is a practical guy and I just have a hard time believing that he wasn't willing to restructure the contract.

I was a bit optimistic over these last few weeks, especially when the video was released of him throwing. I just had a hard time believing Irsay would allow a healthy Manning to go somewhere else.

Assuming Manning was unwilling to renegotiate then I can see two scenarios... Either Manning wanted Irsay to trade the pick and restock the team and fully commit to him before renegotiating or else Manning felt that there really wasn't a way to make it work in Indy with both him and Luck with the salary cap, Luck's desire to play, the Colts' future, his own SB desires, etc and so he made Irsay's decision easy (but painful).

Of course I guess there's always the 3rd scenario which would be Manning to Irsay: "This is why we did the contract the way we did in the first place and you agreed to it. I plan on coming back next season so pick up the option or not. Your choice"

I personally believe Irsay would've negotiated, how much I don't know... but I believe he would've offered more than any other owner if faced with this situation. I just don't see Irsay turning his back on Manning without giving it a serious try.

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

I still don't understand how you don't want to pay him 28mil? I'm pretty sure he makes the Colts way more than that in ticket sales advertisement and anything he does, why would you let New York or any other team capitalize from having Peyton Manning on their team? this is stupid.

Because the team is so freaking bad that it's going to take money and time to rebuild them and Manning's at the end of his career. ...and the NFL has a salary cap. If the cap wasn't an issue I could easily see Irsay doing what you said. In fact, he probably wishes that was an option. But he not only has to think about the next 3-4 years he has to think about the long term future. And of course there's still no guarantee a 35 year old Manning actually can be counted upon to play out his contract in full health and at a high level. So besides the cap hit there's a huge gamble taken that could be franchise crippling over the long haul.

Even if Luck is a bust the team can go about shoring up the plethora of weaknesses that Polian left them with and not have an inordinate amount of $$$ tied up in the cap on the QB position. Of course they can't miss on draft after draft either.

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

Even if Luck is a bust the team can go about shoring up the plethora of weaknesses that Polian left them with and not have an inordinate amount of $$$ tied up in the cap on the QB position. Of course they can't miss on draft after draft either.

Agreed my friend and not only that Polian willingly messed with this team when he starting cutting the throats of Tom Moore and Howard Mudd. The dotying daddy really didn't give a rats @ss about the Colts and was more concerned in setting up his son.

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

Because the team is so freaking bad that it's going to take money and time to rebuild them and Manning's at the end of his career. ...and the NFL has a salary cap. If the cap wasn't an issue I could easily see Irsay doing what you said. In fact, he probably wishes that was an option. But he not only has to think about the next 3-4 years he has to think about the long term future. And of course there's still no guarantee a 35 year old Manning actually can be counted upon to play out his contract in full health and at a high level. So besides the cap hit there's a huge gamble taken that could be franchise crippling over the long haul.

Even if Luck is a bust the team can go about shoring up the plethora of weaknesses that Polian left them with and not have an inordinate amount of $$$ tied up in the cap on the QB position. Of course they can't miss on draft after draft either.

I still don't think the team is nearly as bad as some make it out to be. We had a pathetic mix of QBs last year and that was the number 1 reason we were 2-14. There were so many games that would have been won had we had a QB of even average ability.

The AFC isn't that tough anymore. The NFC is the tough conference. Had Manning come back here healthy in 2012 then I think we would have still been Super Bowl contenders, though certainly not the favorites. A healthy Manning throwing to Garcon/Wayne/Collie/Clark would have still been a recipe for a bunch of wins.

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

I still don't think the team is nearly as bad as some make it out to be. We had a pathetic mix of QBs last year and that was the number 1 reason we were 2-14. There were so many games that would have been won had we had a QB of even average ability.

The AFC isn't that tough anymore. The NFC is the tough conference. Had Manning come back here healthy in 2012 then I think we would have still been Super Bowl contenders, though certainly not the favorites. A healthy Manning throwing to Garcon/Wayne/Collie/Clark would have still been a recipe for a bunch of wins.

In 2010 we were a 10 win team with Garcon and Wayne. This year we will could be without one or both players so I can't really believe we will be contenders with the current roster.

We could make the playoffs but thats about it and before anyone says it "anything can happen" let me just say its not probable. Just like getting into the playoffs with Luck his first year is not probable.

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

The one thing that makes this easier for me as a fan.... Peyton got us to two Super Bowls and actually brought home a trophy for one. Can't take that away from our memories no matter what (plus all the video I recorded ).

Also the thought is someone other than Peyton Manning at QB won Super Bowls during that time so while he will be the greatest to ever where a Colts uniform that doesn't mean the Colts will never return to the big game without him.

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

In 2010 we were a 10 win team with Garcon and Wayne. This year we will could be without one or both players so I can't really believe we will be contenders with the current roster.

We could make the playoffs but thats about it and before anyone says it "anything can happen" let me just say its not probable. Just like getting into the playoffs with Luck his first year is not probable.

We had awful injuries to Clark and Collie in 2010. Both of those guys were huge contributors to our 09 team. And whereas in 2009 we caught practically every break in close situations, in 2010 the tables were flipped and we lost 4 very close games that we likely would have won the year before. The truth was probably somewhere in the middle.

Houston and SD beat us pretty good. Our other losses that year were: A 3 pt loss in Jax, a 2 point loss in Philly, a 3 point loss in New England, a 3 pt OT loss here to Dallas. Most years we would have won at least 2 of those games and finished with a 12-4 record. No way we should have lost to Dallas and we probably should have beat Jax. But in 2010 our luck ran out a bit. We were still a competitive team though and should have won that playoff game against New York.

I just don't see much difference between 09 and 10 aside from injuries, luck, and Manning not being able to pull every game out of his ***. Like I said, the truth is somewhere in the middle and both years we should have been about a 12 win team. 09 is a case of everything going right, 10 is a case of everything going wrong.

Also, Manning's "slump" in 2010 was drastically overblown. He finished with 33 TDs and 17 picks that year. He threw for 33 and 16 in 09 when he won MVP and was being crowned the GOAT. Yet 2010 was somehow a bad season.

8 of Manning's 17 picks in 2010 came in two games: SD and Dallas. 11 came in a three game stretch: NE, SD, and Dallas.

In the 14 games excluding SD and Dallas, Manning threw 29 TDs to 9 picks. He had a damn good season in 2010.

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

I don't buy the fact that we wouldn't be able to win many games with Peyton in 2012.

Sollozzo hit it right on the head. The 2010 team was not much different than the 2011 squad. Except we had horrid QB play. We actually had Collie most of the year and Clark.

The biggest difference is the defense got hit a tad harder on the injury side.

Peyton had a great season in 2010 and about won us a playoff game with Blair White and Tamme.

Remember when Collie returned and we had Garcon, Wayne, Tamme with him? Even though it was at home against the Jags, the offense was running smoothly and back to normal even without Clark.

Then Collie gets hurt and it slows down a tad, which sucked. If Collie hadn't gotten hurt again I believe we probably score more than 16 points in the infamous "Caldwell Timeout" game. But, it's in the past. The Peyton era is over. This day sucks.

If Luck is decent his first year, we could sniff a Wildcard, I believe.

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

We had awful injuries to Clark and Collie in 2010. Both of those guys were huge contributors to our 09 team. And whereas in 2009 we caught practically every break in close situations, in 2010 the tables were flipped and we lost 4 very close games that we likely would have won the year before. The truth was probably somewhere in the middle.

Houston and SD beat us pretty good. Our other losses that year were: A 3 pt loss in Jax, a 2 point loss in Philly, a 3 point loss in New England, a 3 pt OT loss here to Dallas. Most years we would have won at least 2 of those games and finished with a 12-4 record. No way we should have lost to Dallas and we probably should have beat Jax. But in 2010 our luck ran out a bit. We were still a competitive team though and should have won that playoff game against New York.

I just don't see much difference between 09 and 10 aside from injuries, luck, and Manning not being able to pull every game out of his ***. Like I said, the truth is somewhere in the middle and both years we should have been about a 12 win team. 09 is a case of everything going right, 10 is a case of everything going wrong.

Also, Manning's "slump" in 2010 was drastically overblown. He finished with 33 TDs and 17 picks that year. He threw for 33 and 16 in 09 when he won MVP and was being crowned the GOAT. Yet 2010 was somehow a bad season.

8 of Manning's 17 picks in 2010 came in two games: SD and Dallas. 11 came in a three game stretch: NE, SD, and Dallas.

In the 14 games excluding SD and Dallas, Manning threw 29 TDs to 9 picks. He had a damn good season in 2010.

Are you ignoring the fact that we won't probably have either Wayne or Garcon if we kept Manning and the age of this team is getting pretty bad which is why the injuries are happening more often to the same players.

One thing is for sure I wouldn't bet on all 22 starters to be injuried free in 2012 which is sort of hinges on the argument that people are making here and of course the fact that the roster is different than 2010.

Re: Mort says we are parting ways with Peyton

Are you ignoring the fact that we won't probably have either Wayne or Garcon if we kept Manning and the age of this team is getting pretty bad which is why the injuries are happening more often to the same players.

One thing is for sure I wouldn't bet on all 22 starters to be injuried free in 2012 which is sort of hinges on the argument that people are making here and of course the fact that the roster is different than 2010.

If Manning were coming back then I think we would have at least had a decent chance of keeping Wayne and Garcon, particularly Wayne.