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Response to my membership request denial

You can communicate with us in the Nonmember Questions and Opposing Views sub-forum.

Thank you.

Account closed."

No problem. Thanks for hearing me out, and taking the time to consider my membership request.

Yes, I did expect that outcome having read the thread on introduction posts. But then I kept reading around, and noticed there are married guys here who make no secret about being married. Also, you have an own section for "bachelors", and another one for "ghosts". So what are then the rest, if neither bachelors nor ghosts? On top of that, you have an own section on what is basically pick-up artistery, game and how to get girls.

So I made an honest attempt at membership, and respect your decision to deny it. Thought maybe you were a little bit more laxed than how the thread on introduction posts came off.

---------------------

Opaque said:

"You, sir, are not a MGTOW and with that kind of mentality towards life, you will never grasp the "spirit of MGTOW''.

Reading you post, it sounds like you are looking forward to getting divorce raped, and disposed of by your soon to be wife. And it seems that you are excited by the prospect of it!

What is even more audacious and pernicious is that you come on here and redefine the meaning of MGTOW and you say you are "MGTOW aware". The members on this forum, by virtue of being here know what it means to be a bonafide MGTOW. They gained this knowing, by experience, debate, questions, answers, reflections.

They didn't just break in the door and proclaim it!"

Yes, I'm not MGTOW, neither do I claim to be. That's why I said exactly that much in my post. So congratulations to you for figuring that out.

I will however beg to differ when it comes to me not "grasping the MGTOW spirit" - on which I probably have a better grasp than some people who claim to be MGTOW. More on "the gynocentric mindset of men" later...

As for me looking forward to getting divorce raped (btw, I'm not even planning on getting married): Do keep in mind that not everyone on the internet lives in the US or Canada. Divorce laws in my country are probably quite different than in yours:

- Prenuptial agreements are by default
- 50/50 custody is by default
- We don't have "common law marriage"
- We don't have "alimony"
- We don't have "family courts"
- Only 5% of divorces involve lawyers, the courts and lawyer fees.

That is not to say that my country isn't gynocentric as well. We are human beings after all, which means I will always be at a disadvantage when it comes to false accusations and the like - especially when it comes to custody. But at least these things have to go through actual courts, and not the kangaroo court that is "family court". Hence, we don't have anything resembling a "divorce industry" here.

But like I said, I'm not planning on getting married anyways, so I don't know where you got that idea from. I'm not a traditionalist, and view marriage as fundamentally degrading towards men - and a major loss of frame - regardless of divorce laws.

Further more, I have not made any attempt at "redefining MGTOW". If I wanted to redefine MGTOW, I would say something like "married guys can be MGTOW too", or "fathers can be MGTOW too". Well, they can't, and to claim so would be to muddy the waters. That's why I made a point out of using the term "MGTOW aware" - rather than claiming to "be a MGTOW". And by "MGTOW aware" I mean I'm a red piller who views MGTOW as a perfectly valid response to red pill awareness - as opposed to some other members of the red pill community.

----------------

Lastly, a comment on "possible incel" as one of the stated reasons for my membership denial:

In fairness, that was not the only reason for denying membership, or probably even the most important reason. But it does miss the mark on what I was getting at, and it does expose a seriously blue pilled ć, gynocentric mindset of those MGTOWs and red pullers in general who are just terrified of getting lumped in with incels:

I don't care if anyone on the internet or anywhere else think I'm an incel - or whether they believe I bedded a hundred women in my life. The reason being that I don't measure my own sense of value - or anyone else's - through the lense of gynocentrism.

Yes, it is fundamentally gynocentric - and therefore blue pilled - for a man to shiver in fear of being associated with men who can't get laied. The only reason any man would care about that, is because he cares what society (a.k.a. women) think of him. And that fear of not being one of "the chosen ones" (by women) is what sits at the very heart of the gynocentric mindset of men.

So whenever I see a man proclaiming to be a MGHOW - which surely must entail at least an ambition of freeing himself from his own inherent gynocentrism - making a point to the world around him that he was the one who CHOSE the MGTOW path, as if there was no underlying disappointment that lead him there, I call 'phoney' and 'blue pilled'. Because why should any red pilled' man care what women (not even a specific woman, but women in general) think? What kind of Man Going His Own Way would throw other men - the losers of the game one claims to resent - under the bus like that?

This inclination to separate oneself from guys like that is a clear sign that that one is still heavily ego invested in a blue pilled, gynocentric mindset. And it's actually quite sad to watch, because the MGTOW path is the only feasible way out for an incel - and as such they should be met by other men with compassion, love and understanding. Any man who can't find it within himself to do that - because of his own ego investment - is not really red pilled, nor is he unplugged.

Re: Response to my membership request denial

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I don't care if anyone on the internet or anywhere else think I'm an incel -

It was you who brought it into your Intro. Why do we care unless you are telling us you could be an incel? Then, we care. More of your sabotaging yourself? And now you are here, again comparing yourself to the incel thing.

But it does miss the mark on what I was getting at, and it does expose a seriously blue pilled ć, gynocentric mindset of those MGTOWs and red pullers in general who are just terrified of getting lumped in with incels

In your Intro, you should be "getting at" the three points of the How To Intro and nothing else. You preferred to introduce things that work against you. This is your nature, I think, and chatting later about what went wrong is part of that.

No, sorry. You pay the cover charge to get in, and afterwards you can dance.

You flat out told the bouncer at the door why you do not qualify to come in. All that green text in the How to Intro was lost on you. I'm still shaking my head at that one.

Last edited by Unboxxed; May 14, 2020 at 10:03 PM.

The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain
The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. - Henry David Thoreau

There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Re: Response to my membership request denial

for a man to shiver in fear of being associated with men who can't get laied.

There's no fear about it, and there's no association, incels are not, and cannot be MGTOW, the mindsets are galaxies apart and light speed in opposite directions.You're not aware like you claim to be or you'd see the hypocrisy of any incel claiming to be MGTOW, if they were MGTOW there'd be no knowing they're incel because he dropped everything for the bag of shit it is! There's no concern about relationshits and in Monk mode throw in sex.
If I wanted to get laid and couldn't why not hit up a call girl? Pay for it? Involuntary celibate MY ASS! They want "RELATIONSHIPS" and "SEX", they're picky demanding self loathing pieces of shit that focus on what they don't have! MGTOW focus on what we do have and fuckwell determined to KEEP IT!

Are the laws and order within your society a bit unreasonable, counterproductive, and even hazardous? That's the mark of feminism diligently at work in your society. Need relief? MGTOW is the only ejection seat available to men facing this live systematic crash and burn scenario.

Re: Response to my membership request denial

Incels, blue pilled men, purple pilled men, married men, fathers etc. can all transform themselves to the MGTOW way of life and once they do so they will be welcome – we weren’t born MGTOW and we all came from different walks of life. Our membership here reflects this.

But this site is for those that have already made that transition, not for those that claim to be aware of it (whatever that means).

Membership here is limited to MGTOW because to do otherwise would only serve to bastardise the message we have.

We have no fear of interacting with others, we do so every day of our lives in real life and many of us are quite happy to do so, but this place is for us, a place to interact with the like-minded and this is what you seem unable to grasp.

Further more, I have not made any attempt at "redefining MGTOW". If I wanted to redefine MGTOW, I would say something like "married guys can be MGTOW too", or "fathers can be MGTOW too". Well, they can't,

This statement in itself tries to re-define MGTOW. Who says married men and fathers can't be MGTOW? Some married men realise the mistake that they've made and remain married solely for financial reasons or so as not to fuck up their kids lives beyond repair. The same with unmarried fathers. It isn't about what we've done in the past it's about who we are now.

And we are not all U.S. citizens, our membership spans the globe, I myself am from Europe.

For someone who claims to be “aware” you don’t show too many signs of it.

Re: Response to my membership request denial

Originally Posted by Unboxxed

It was you who brought it into your Intro. Why do we care unless you are telling us you could be an incel? Then, we care. More of your sabotaging yourself? And now you are here, again comparing yourself to the incel thing.

Context, my friend.

I was making a point about why a man's history with women shouldn't matter when judging the words that come out of his mouth. Because whether he's an incel - or an alpha Chad - it plays up to the idea that men should judge themselves (and eachother) through the eyes of women. We are naturally inclined to do this, so it takes conscious effort not to.

In your Intro, you should be "getting at" the three points of the How To Intro and nothing else. You preferred to introduce things that work against you. This is your nature, I think, and chatting later about what went wrong is part of that.

Are we going to pretend now that a man's path towards the red pill isn't driven by certain trauma and things that went against him precisely because of his previous blue pilled mindset?

You want members to introduce themselves with their history with women, and you what lead them to the red pill. These two things are intertwined. So I basically just merged part 1 and part 2.

No, sorry. You pay the cover charge to get in, and afterwards you can dance.

Yes? Have I said anything to the contrary? I respect your decision not to grant me membership, and neither am I asking for one after first having been turned down. It's your forum, your decision and I have no problem with that.

You flat out told the bouncer at the door why you do not qualify to come in. All that green text in the How to Intro was lost on you. I'm still shaking my head at that one.

Re: Response to my membership request denial

Originally Posted by mgtower

There's no fear about it, and there's no association, incels are not, and cannot be MGTOW, the mindsets are galaxies apart and light speed in opposite directions.You're not aware like you claim to be or you'd see the hypocrisy of any incel claiming to be MGTOW, if they were MGTOW there'd be no knowing they're incel because he dropped everything for the bag of shit it is! There's no concern about relationshits and in Monk mode throw in sex.
If I wanted to get laid and couldn't why not hit up a call girl? Pay for it? Involuntary celibate MY ASS! They want "RELATIONSHIPS" and "SEX", they're picky demanding self loathing pieces of shit that focus on what they don't have! MGTOW focus on what we do have and fuckwell determined to KEEP IT!

I agree that an incel who's still in the "black pill mindset" is miles apart from a MGHOW. Because essentially, the black pill is a gynocentric mindset ("there can be no happiness without a woman in your life").

But an incel who shed the black pill, and learned how to live for himself, is a different matter. People generally swallow the red pill due to some kind of trauma, and I don't think anyone should be so quick to disregard the trauma of experiencing life as an omega male.

There's basically two things going on here:

1) The logical argument that "the black pill" and "the red pill" are two rather opposing mindsets.

2) The emotionally driven fear of being lumped in with guys who can't get laied. And let's not pretend that you haven't noticed that too - both within certain elements of the MGTOW community and the broader red pill community.

Re: Response to my membership request denial

Originally Posted by Jackoff

Incels, blue pilled men, purple pilled men, married men, fathers etc. can all transform themselves to the MGTOW way of life and once they do so they will be welcome – we weren’t born MGTOW and we all came from different walks of life. Our membership here reflects this.

But this site is for those that have already made that transition, not for those that claim to be aware of it (whatever that means).

Membership here is limited to MGTOW because to do otherwise would only serve to bastardise the message we have.

We have no fear of interacting with others, we do so every day of our lives in real life and many of us are quite happy to do so, but this place is for us, a place to interact with the like-minded and this is what you seem unable to grasp.

I don't get why you would assume I don't grasp that. Like I've said many times already, I respect the decision not to grant me or anyone else membership. I've got no problems with that.

As for the rest of your post, I completely agree with the points you made there.

This statement in itself tries to re-define MGTOW. Who says married men and fathers can't be MGTOW? Some married men realise the mistake that they've made and remain married solely for financial reasons or so as not to fuck up their kids lives beyond repair. The same with unmarried fathers. It isn't about what we've done in the past it's about who we are now.

Come on. What constitutes being a MGHOW is an ongoing point of debate within the MGTOW community itself. Even I know that much. And whenever those debates have popped up, I've tended to agree with those who want to limit it to "no marriage, no cohabitation, no kids".

The reason is simple. If it's about unplugging from a gynocentric mindset - to an even greater degree than the red pill community as a whole - then surely you must be in a position where you can actually do that. A married man, or a man who has to deal with the mother of his children, can never truly be that free.

And we are not all U.S. citizens, our membership spans the globe, I myself am from Europe.

For someone who claims to be “aware” you don’t show too many signs of it.

I do know that. And if you're going to be intellectually honest here, then perhaps you should keep in mind that this was a response to someone who claimed I was "looking forward to getting divorce raped" - despite us not really having a divorce industry in my country. I also pointed out that there are other reasons than "law" for fearing marriage, like "human nature" and the inherent, biological gynocentrism of both men and women, the importance of maintaining frame etc. Or to put it in simpler terms: the fact that the security of marriage actually turns women off.

Re: Response to my membership request denial

I will however beg to differ when it comes to me not "grasping the MGTOW spirit" - on which I probably have a better grasp than some people who claim to be MGTOW. More on "the gynocentric mindset of men" later...

As mentioned in the other post of your introduction. A MGTOW is someone who has worked, worked and worked for his salvation. It is not some cheap commodity, to be bought and sold. You say you "probably have a better grasp", so let me ask you some questions:

- Would you raise your daughter not to manipulate men for drinks and dinners? Would you make sure her mother teaches her to respect men? Would you slap the shit our of her if she ever oopsie pregnancied a guy, or even worse falsely accused him of rape?

I would bet otherwise.

My guess is I bet you wouldn't, and the reason is clear, you have a very superficial, shallow understanding of MGTOW. You think of MGTOW as some sort of switch. Or something you simply download into your brain. It is not. You would not behave the way you do if you came to MGTOW in a sincere and genuine manner; and I can assure you sir, we bonafide MGTOW on this good forum have had years and years and years of experience with people strolling in and thinking they have found MGTOW; but we read their introductions, and we somehow just "don't feel it".

MGTOW is a serious endeavour, it is the notion and realisation that men are, have always been oppressed throughout all cultures and all historical epochs.

Therefore, a bonafide MGTOW would not even consider making a comparison between North America and other countries, as you did earlier with regards to divorce industry. It is a relevant point of interest, but a serious, deep thinking and mature MGTOW would not even think of mentioning it in his introduction which is supposed to be personal.

Further more, I have not made any attempt at "redefining MGTOW". If I wanted to redefine MGTOW, I would say something like "married guys can be MGTOW too", or "fathers can be MGTOW too". Well, they can't, and to claim so would be to muddy the waters. That's why I made a point out of using the term "MGTOW aware" - rather than claiming to "be a MGTOW". And by "MGTOW aware" I mean I'm a red piller who views MGTOW as a perfectly valid response to red pill awareness - as opposed to some other members of the red pill community.

Jackoff mentioned it in his post above, but I will re-iterate his views as well, because I agree with his approach. MGTOW, again is not some cheap commodity. It is not even really about married or not married, a man can come to genuine realisation of MGTOW after he is married, and we have had some outstanding members here whom I have had the honour to know and learn from.

More so, it is you attitude and approach to the MGTOW enterprise. You keep talking about superficialities: marriage, divorce laws etc. Your approach is totally wrong.

We come to this forum to like a man comes to church to seek salvation, it is done in humility and sincerity. You do not see someone who wants to be a christian say to the priest, I want to be "christian aware". The priest knows this man is not ready for salvation, and the necessary work and repentance for said salvation.

Likewise, by saying you are MGTOW aware, it shows us you not really willing to fully involve yourself and truly go your own way. You are merely testing the waters, trying something out, like it is some kind of hobby to pass your free time with. And thereby, again cheapening MGTOW.

Lastly, a comment on "possible incel" as one of the stated reasons for my membership denial:

In fairness, that was not the only reason for denying membership, or probably even the most important reason. But it does miss the mark on what I was getting at, and it does expose a seriously blue pilled ć, gynocentric mindset of those MGTOWs and red pullers in general who are just terrified of getting lumped in with incels:

I don't care if anyone on the internet or anywhere else think I'm an incel - or whether they believe I bedded a hundred women in my life. The reason being that I don't measure my own sense of value - or anyone else's - through the lense of gynocentrism.

Yes, it is fundamentally gynocentric - and therefore blue pilled - for a man to shiver in fear of being associated with men who can't get laied. The only reason any man would care about that, is because he cares what society (a.k.a. women) think of him. And that fear of not being one of "the chosen ones" (by women) is what sits at the very heart of the gynocentric mindset of men.

So whenever I see a man proclaiming to be a MGHOW - which surely must entail at least an ambition of freeing himself from his own inherent gynocentrism - making a point to the world around him that he was the one who CHOSE the MGTOW path, as if there was no underlying disappointment that lead him there, I call 'phoney' and 'blue pilled'. Because why should any red pilled' man care what women (not even a specific woman, but women in general) think? What kind of Man Going His Own Way would throw other men - the losers of the game one claims to resent - under the bus like that?

This inclination to separate oneself from guys like that is a clear sign that that one is still heavily ego invested in a blue pilled, gynocentric mindset. And it's actually quite sad to watch, because the MGTOW path is the only feasible way out for an incel - and as such they should be met by other men with compassion, love and understanding. Any man who can't find it within himself to do that - because of his own ego investment - is not really red pilled, nor is he unplugged.

The latter half of your post is much more sincere and interesting in my opinion. I have often mentioned on this forum, that we should not care if someone considers us incels. If we care, then we are actually part of the gynocracy. I could care less what women, or society in general thinks of me. I do care about what I think of myself though.

Having said that, from my limited experience, an Incel cannot be a MGTOW if he continues to cling on to the hope of one day finding a woman, or the bitterness that society is unfair with regards to how sexual access is given in any society.

Notice, I said the bitterness. An incel has to make the shift from bitterness into --> Sadness --> sense of loss --> anger --> curiosity -->then he can look for and find MGTOW. We should not be actively trying to help incels, if they are serious enough, they will find MGTOW and will do everything to be accepted amongst our ranks.

Once they stop their ridiculous demands that the "world should be fair" , once they move into the sadness and sense of loss phase, they are now beginning a therapeutic journey of some kind, and there is a possibility for them to find MGTOW.

Not that the world isn't unfair, it certainly is and men get the short end of the stick, always. But how do we deal with it? As MGTOW, we have found a space that helps us, and we do this by going our own way.

A mother cannot raise a boy to be a man, not because he needs a father figure; but because she favours team vagina over her own son.

Tradcon women are the most manipulative of all kinds of women, because they infect you with false hope.
Radfems are your best friend, because they hate you and verbalise it - that's honesty!

The red pill rage is a process which takes many many years - so be kind and patient with yourself; you will overcome it!

Re: Response to my membership request denial

As mentioned in the other post of your introduction. A MGTOW is someone who has worked, worked and worked for his salvation. It is not some cheap commodity, to be bought and sold.

Never claimed otherwise.

You say you "probably have a better grasp",

And I maintain that. But to bring it up was silly of me, because in the end it's just more posturing (which is a plague on the manosphere as a whole) - more on that later.

so let me ask you some questions:

- Would you raise your daughter not to manipulate men for drinks and dinners?

Absolutely I would.

Would you make sure her mother teaches her to respect men?

If necessary, absolutely I would.

Would you slap the shit our of her if she ever oopsie pregnancied a guy, or even worse falsely accused him of rape?

No, I wouldn't. Firstly, because I don't believe in physical punishment. Secondly, if she ever did something like that to a man, it would mean that I had failed as a father a long time before that even happened.

I would bet otherwise.

Well, you bet wrong.

My guess is I bet you wouldn't, and the reason is clear, you have a very superficial, shallow understanding of MGTOW. You think of MGTOW as some sort of switch. Or something you simply download into your brain.

Again, you're guessing wrong. And your entire character evaluation of me and my understanding is based on you guessing wrong in the first place. So I'll leave that.

You would not behave the way you do if you came to MGTOW in a sincere and genuine manner;

What do you mean by "behave the way I do"? What about my "behaviour" is it that was so unacceptable in your eyes?

You seem to be coming at this from a place of blanket assumptions about me somehow thinking I'm superior to you, and it's making you defensive. And I can understand that based on what this forum probably has to deal with on a regular basis from potential new members. I just came in here an engaged you out of nowhere, so I understand your scepticism.

But I'll have you know that the reason I explicitly stated in my introduction that I "don't qualify as a MGTOW" was out of RESPECT for you and your community - not out of some misplaced superiority complex on my part.

and I can assure you sir, we bonafide MGTOW on this good forum have had years and years and years of experience with people strolling in and thinking they have found MGTOW; but we read their introductions, and we somehow just "don't feel it".

"Bonafide MGTOW"...now you're the one doing the posturing, the one playing king of whatever red pill community of your choice.

You don't know anything about my path down the red pill rabbit hole. You think I haven't experienced the pain, humiliation and disappointment involved in having my eyes slowly opened to what interplay between men and women is really about at the end of the day? Well, I have, just like you probably have, and every other guy who's even remotely interested in what red pill theory has to offer. I've done some pretty embarrassing stuff throughout the years, completely debasing and humiliating myself just to please some woman - thinking there would be some kind of reward waiting for me in the end.

MGTOW is a serious endeavour, it is the notion and realisation that men are, have always been oppressed throughout all cultures and all historical epochs.

What specifically made you think I don't know that? Why else would I be anti marriage, even though I live in a country where the laws in and of themselves aren't so bad? The answer is simple: it's about human nature, not politics or law. Politics and law (specifically feminism) is ultimately about human nature - it exposes something that was always there, and will always be there. I've come to terms with that. Have you?

Therefore, a bonafide MGTOW would not even consider making a comparison between North America and other countries, as you did earlier with regards to divorce industry. It is a relevant point of interest, but a serious, deep thinking and mature MGTOW would not even think of mentioning it in his introduction which is supposed to be personal.

I didn't mention divorce industry in my introduction. That was a response to someone claiming I was looking forward to getting divorce raped. I'm not the one who brought up law, that guy did.

And again, more posturing on your part, more playing ki g of the MGTOW or red pillers or whatever. Who are you to speak for every other MGTOW out there? Do you not see how that flies in the face of everything you claim to believe in?

The latter half of your post is much more sincere and interesting in my opinion. I have often mentioned on this forum, that we should not care if someone considers us incels. If we care, then we are actually part of the gynocracy. I could care less what women, or society in general thinks of me. I do care about what I think of myself though.

Having said that, from my limited experience, an Incel cannot be a MGTOW if he continues to cling on to the hope of one day finding a woman, or the bitterness that society is unfair with regards to how sexual access is given in any society.

Notice, I said the bitterness. An incel has to make the shift from bitterness into --> Sadness --> sense of loss --> anger --> curiosity -->then he can look for and find MGTOW. We should not be actively trying to help incels, if they are serious enough, they will find MGTOW and will do everything to be accepted amongst our ranks.

Once they stop their ridiculous demands that the "world should be fair" , once they move into the sadness and sense of loss phase, they are now beginning a therapeutic journey of some kind, and there is a possibility for them to find MGTOW.

Not that the world isn't unfair, it certainly is and men get the short end of the stick, always. But how do we deal with it? As MGTOW, we have found a space that helps us, and we do this by going our own way.

I appreciate you finding that part interesting - it's been a constant point of contention between me and other red pillers of various ilks. But again, you don't get to be the judge of when I'm being "sincere" or not. Everything I've written in my introduction, and in this discussion, has been sincere.

Thank you for engaging. I appreciate that, and hope you get some enjoyment out of it, like I do.

Re: Response to my membership request denial

I think I forgot to answer these last two points:

Originally Posted by Opaque

We come to this forum to like a man comes to church to seek salvation, it is done in humility and sincerity. You do not see someone who wants to be a christian say to the priest, I want to be "christian aware". The priest knows this man is not ready for salvation, and the necessary work and repentance for said salvation.

First of all, this doesn't even work as an analogy to me being denied membership here. Because I actually agree with that decision. I have no problem with it. I'm absolutely on board with the idea that certain standards need to be kept, that certain boundaries need to be kept for a philosophy not to become something entirely different, and therefore lose all its meaning. I understand that you want this place for yourself, and not for people with semi-related convictions who, in your eyes, are not willing to make that last leape. I fully respect that.

But as for your priest there, I will engage, because it's an interesting point, even though it doesn't work as an analogy. A priest would want people onboard, he would want to recruit. MGTOW doesn't recruit. So there's your difference.

So a priest would welcome that person as someone who is indeed more than ready for guidance, because the priest would know that the road to salvation is an ongoing, continuous process, a life long battle with oneself, one's own inclination, one's own nature.

The Red Pill works very much same way. There is no "end station" to going down the red pill rabbit hole, no line in the sand you can draw, where you can finally go: "At last, I'm red pilled'!" It's all about the path, and people will be along different distances down that part. And as long as you're commited to keep walking it, you're all good.

And when I looked around in introduction forum here, I noticed a pattern: So many times some lost guy will come here and tell his introduction story. And more often than not, the response will be something along the line of: "Not red pilled enough!", "Not MGTOW enough!", "Too negative!", "I smell incel!", "Membership denied!"

And I'm not talking about myself here. Cause like I said, my denial was fair and square - as I did inform you on me not being a MGHOW, or being in a position where I can actually make that leap in any practical sense. I'm 40 years old, and I don't need you. Cause let go of bitterness and disappointment a long time ago. I swapped all that shit out for understanding, and my life is infinitely better for it (too bad I never got onto part 3 of my introduction).

But there are guys who come on here, younger guys, who actually do need you. You can do a lot of good for them, so perhaps you should cut them some slack.

Likewise, by saying you are MGTOW aware, it shows us you not really willing to fully involve yourself and truly go your own way. You are merely testing the waters, trying something out, like it is some kind of hobby to pass your free time with. And thereby, again cheapening MGTOW.

Again, stop with this "cheapening MGTOW" nonsense. The reason I disclosed me not being a MGHOW is because of precisely that,;I don't want to cheapen anything, I understand the need for boundaries. I use the term "MGTOW aware" because my line of thought is more in line with MGTOW than with the "just game your wife, bro" red pill community (who I respect as well, don't get me wrong). To me, the MGTOW aspect and line of thinking is something that often gets lost in the greater red pill scheme of things. Philosophically, I probably have more in common with you than I do with Rollo Tomassi (who I also have immense respect for).

Re: Response to my membership request denial

I don't care. It's beside the point that I have already made that it is inappropriate to discuss these things in an Intro.

Your above response is your inability to acknowledge or accept that you introduced too much in your Intro. It's beside the point.

Uh, your Intro. As I said before, you introduced in your Intro ideas that did not belong there.

So you complain when people don't put enough in their intro, and then you complain some more when people put too much in their intro. You basically just like to complain, don't you?

And to top it all off, I've noticed you have this tendency to sit and gossip with other forum-members on introduction posts you've already denied, knowing full well that the person you're tittle tattling about no longer can respond to whatever accusations you throw their way.

It's not a good look, let me tell you. Because it makes you come off like a woman, and it makes me suspect that perhaps this forum is some sort of honey trap, a MGTOW forum moderated by women, a forum that was already inflitrated a long time ago. Perhaps that's why you've been losing members left and right, actual old timers and quality posters (yeah, I've had a look around).

Like I've said, I understand that you're sceptical towards me, a new guy who wanted to become a member (I don't anymore, so no worries). I can understand why even a man would engage in female adopted deflection tactics towards that person. But it's interesting to note that you did the same thing towards one of your established members when you were tittle tattling about me in my introduction thread:

Remember the guy who posted that South Park gif of someone beating a dead horse? Yeah, that guy was criticizing you, not me. And of course, you understood that, that's why you pretended not to understand it. So to put it in your own words: "I think you already knew". That's why you asked him what he was on about.

And then later, when I followed up, you suddenly switched the narrative in your head, and NOW you understood what he meant, because now - in your head - it was no longer about you, now you could deflect it over on me (female adopted deflection tactics).

Show me that you have no problem with it. End this discussion with me, where you are beside the points I had made.

Honest as you may be, you are really trying to keep me engaged in conversation with you, where you are the director. It's manipulative.

Nobody is forcing you to reply. And in another thread, you pride yourself on engaging opposing views on this subforum, claiming that this is what this subforum is meant for:

So again, you're just complaining for the sake of complaining, moving goalposts and changing narratives as you go along, deflection. I'm "manipulating" you? Wtf? This is female adopted behaviour on your part, so perhaps you should do some soul searching as to how unplugged you really are - seeing as you fill the role of moderator on a MGTOW forum.

Re: Response to my membership request denial

2) The emotionally driven fear of being lumped in with guys who can't get laied. And let's not pretend that you haven't noticed that too - both within certain elements of the MGTOW community and the broader red pill community.

First, let me spit the words out that you so graciously put in my mouth (and lets not pretend it isn't like a dick).

Emotionally driven fear? What the fuck is that? My only "fear" is personal injury and suffering! Fearing anything else is jittery bird brain cunt think, maybe that works for you, but like sucking a dick, it doesn't work for me!

Are the laws and order within your society a bit unreasonable, counterproductive, and even hazardous? That's the mark of feminism diligently at work in your society. Need relief? MGTOW is the only ejection seat available to men facing this live systematic crash and burn scenario.

Re: Response to my membership request denial

So you complain when people don't put enough in their intro, and then you complain some more when people put too much in their intro. You basically just like to complain, don't you?

And to top it all off, I've noticed you have this tendency to sit and gossip with other forum-members on introduction posts you've already denied, knowing full well that the person you're tittle tattling about no longer can respond to whatever accusations you throw their way.

It's not a good look, let me tell you. Because it makes you come off like a woman, and it makes me suspect that perhaps this forum is some sort of honey trap, a MGTOW forum moderated by women, a forum that was already inflitrated a long time ago. Perhaps that's why you've been losing members left and right, actual old timers and quality posters (yeah, I've had a look around).

Like I've said, I understand that you're sceptical towards me, a new guy who wanted to become a member (I don't anymore, so no worries). I can understand why even a man would engage in female adopted deflection tactics towards that person. But it's interesting to note that you did the same thing towards one of your established members when you were tittle tattling about me in my introduction thread:

Remember the guy who posted that South Park gif of someone beating a dead horse? Yeah, that guy was criticizing you, not me. And of course, you understood that, that's why you pretended not to understand it. So to put it in your own words: "I think you already knew". That's why you asked him what he was on about.

And then later, when I followed up, you suddenly switched the narrative in your head, and NOW you understood what he meant, because now - in your head - it was no longer about you, now you could deflect it over on me (female adopted deflection tactics).

Nobody is forcing you to reply. And in another thread, you pride yourself on engaging opposing views on this subforum, claiming that this is what this subforum is meant for:

So again, you're just complaining for the sake of complaining, moving goalposts and changing narratives as you go along, deflection. I'm "manipulating" you? Wtf? This is female adopted behaviour on your part, so perhaps you should do some soul searching as to how unplugged you really are - seeing as you fill the role of moderator on a MGTOW forum.

Wow.

The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain
The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. - Henry David Thoreau

There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Re: Response to my membership request denial

Originally Posted by Unboxxed

Wow.

Even though I noticed your subtle little jibes and attempts at shaming tactics, I really didn't want to go in hard on you. I don't think men should be so hard on other men. So I played it nice, and I didn't even mention it.

But when you flee into victimhood mentality, and talk as if you have no choice but to engage, that I'm "manipulating" you somehow, I can't just sit idly by and not point out that you're engaging in female tactics, and that you're displaying a lack of agency and a behaviour normally associated with the opposite sex.

I find that insulting coming from an admin on a MGTOW forum, cause by doing that you're not only doing a disservice to MGTOW, but also to the red pilled community as a whole, and what it means to be a red pilled man.

It's a depressing thought that guys will come on here, young guys in need of some guidance, and THIS will be their first meeting with other (supposedly) red pilled men. That is not in the spirit of what guys like Stardusk, Barbarossa, Colttaine, huMan and TFM are about. Those guys are good role models for younger men, not humongous manginas. No wonder Stardusk have spoken many times about the slow degeneration of the MGTOW community.

Re: Response to my membership request denial

Well, first of all thank you for the replies, it is nice to see someone actually engaging, unlike some other would be applicants who only know to throw insults.

Let me reposed to the points you have raised.

What do you mean by "behave the way I do"? What about my "behaviour" is it that was so unacceptable in your eyes?

You seem to be coming at this from a place of blanket assumptions about me somehow thinking I'm superior to you, and it's making you defensive. And I can understand that based on what this forum probably has to deal with on a regular basis from potential new members. I just came in here an engaged you out of nowhere, so I understand your scepticism.

But I'll have you know that the reason I explicitly stated in my introduction that I "don't qualify as a MGTOW" was out of RESPECT for you and your community - not out of some misplaced superiority complex on my part.

Why are you so concerned with superiority this and superiority that? Why would you keep saying that I am posturing? This is not a win/lose situation. You are asked, politely to make an introduction post. Your post was deemed insufficient for forum membership. You yourself have no issues with that, and have explicitly mentioned that you are not a fully fledged MGTOW.

I can only make blanked assumptions, because I only know little about you. And I am entitled to make blanket assumptions, because I have a small set of data which I need to make a conclusion out of.

This is why I keep saying that any would be member needs to have a very very detailed introduction. It is the price of gaining membership. It also helps us figure what kind of person the would be applicant may be. So if there is some misunderstanding, we can work through it.

Many members here will attest, that I myself have had disagreements with admins about some members who were denied membership. But, it almost always came as a result of an intro post which was unsatisfactory - which is why we are more than justified in asking, asking and asking further.

We are not looking for respect or concern, a would be applicant or a guest should not really be concerned with telling us about what is or isn't wrong with our forum. I mean maybe some of the things you have mentioned are worth merit, but it just isn't your place to worry or be concerned about these things. That, to me seems like concern trolling.

And this has often happened previously, many tradcucks have tried to sneak into this forum with this concern troll type of attitude. Not saying you are like this.

I'm 40 years old, and I don't need you. Cause let go of bitterness and disappointment a long time ago. I swapped all that shit out for understanding, and my life is infinitely better for it (too bad I never got onto part 3 of my introduction).

Again, here I sense this "fatherliness" coming out, as if we are children in need of life advice. Why would you need to mention that you do not need us? And that you are 40? I have met some really stupid 40 year olds.

And Fathers are absolute scumbags in my opinion, they could easily help their sons out and forewarn them of female and maternal manipulation! Which they often don't do. So much for fatherhood eh?

But there are guys who come on here, younger guys, who actually do need you. You can do a lot of good for them, so perhaps you should cut them some slack.

You see, you keep doing this, acting in some advisory manner. You are a guest on this forum, you don't get to tell us how to behave towards newcomers. We have built an online space, a culture with our own hard work and toil. We have built an identity.

Do you think it would be okay for some feminist to go to Afghanistan and tell some village elder how to respect his wife? Some would consider that cultural imperialism.

This is the kind of thing that would be discussed internally, and although we are far from perfect, we do discuss these things, and the discussions are actually rather lively and healthy.

Again, stop with this "cheapening MGTOW" nonsense. The reason I disclosed me not being a MGHOW is because of precisely that,;I don't want to cheapen anything, I understand the need for boundaries. I use the term "MGTOW aware" because my line of thought is more in line with MGTOW than with the "just game your wife, bro" red pill community (who I respect as well, don't get me wrong). To me, the MGTOW aspect and line of thinking is something that often gets lost in the greater red pill scheme of things. Philosophically, I probably have more in common with you than I do with Rollo Tomassi (who I also have immense respect for).

You may, but we do not deal with only the conceptual and philosophical. We deal with the everyday. We deal with the here and now, the practicalities of life. And so what if we have commonalities on the level of the philosophical?

I agree with a large portion of feminist ideology. I think sometime MGTOW are too dismissive of it. I agree with the idea that Patriarchy is harmful.

Does that mean I can belong to some feminist club, even if I was "feminist aware".

I think you have raised some interesting points and you this has been a healthy discussion. I just don't know what you are really trying to do here.

So far, from what I can tell, it seems to me like you are here to offer us advice, and this isn't something we are looking for.

A mother cannot raise a boy to be a man, not because he needs a father figure; but because she favours team vagina over her own son.

Tradcon women are the most manipulative of all kinds of women, because they infect you with false hope.
Radfems are your best friend, because they hate you and verbalise it - that's honesty!

The red pill rage is a process which takes many many years - so be kind and patient with yourself; you will overcome it!

Re: Response to my membership request denial

I don't get why you would assume I don't grasp that. Like I've said many times already, I respect the decision not to grant me or anyone else membership. I've got no problems with that.

Well, let me see, maybe it’s because you made your initial post in the “New Members” area as if you were looking to join. It has become obvious that your sole intent is to poke holes in everything this site is about. You even refer to some of us as behaving like women? If you were being as honest as you claim you would have headed straight to the non-members / opposing views section.

This is why we have an introduction mandate, to weed out those like yourself that come here to cause disruption. Is it perfect? No. No process is, but it sure as hell is effective.

And please stop pretending that you are here for anything else other than to try to cause dissent. You are obviously quite intelligent and have thought out your attacks extremely well, but they are attacks nonetheless. That being said I love a good argument with intelligent people that for some reason seem to think they know me better than I know myself.

Come on. What constitutes being a MGHOW is an ongoing point of debate within the MGTOW community itself. Even I know that much. And whenever those debates have popped up, I've tended to agree with those who want to limit it to "no marriage, no cohabitation, no kids".

You’ve obviously done your homework as this is precisely the criteria we use at this site, as I said intelligent, but not quite intelligent enough. You see these criteria MUST be through choice. Any incel could claim the same, but because it isn’t through choice he cannot be considered MGTOW.

As for what constitutes a MGHOW being a point of ongoing debate, I would ask by whom? Non-MGTOW trying to define us in some way that they can use to attack us just as you are attempting to do? Or maybe by Non-MGTOW that feel wronged in some way because their idea of going your own way is not ours and were thus refused admission?

Any perceived debate between MGTOW is due to the fact that many of us are at different stages of understanding or because we come from different environments and backgrounds. This is normal intellectual debate and should not be considered as lack of cohesion. MGTOW are, for the most part intellectually curious; that’s what leads us here not some individual bad experience that we use as a template to smear all women as you have alluded to in other posts. For those of us that have had bad experiences, they were merely the catalysts that opened our eyes to the fundamental truth that relationships with women are almost always bad news for the men involved.

The reason is simple. If it's about unplugging from a gynocentric mindset - to an even greater degree than the red pill community as a whole - then surely you must be in a position where you can actually do that. A married man, or a man who has to deal with the mother of his children, can never truly be that free.

This is quite true and I had to think about that one myself for a while. But if you take this argument to its logical conclusion then none of us can be “truly” free. Leaving aside the fact that most of us live in a world that is legally skewed in favour of women, we all have family and friends that try to influence us; should we cut those out of our lives too just because they have a different viewpoint? And what about the workplace? Should we all quit our jobs just because they also employ women? Oh, and don’t go to the shops because they employ women as well.

This is a nonsense argument designed to confuse and manipulate. The gynocracy is, and there is no complete escape. MGTOW is about limiting the effects of it on our lives whilst continuing with and improving said lives. How we choose to go about that is different for each of us – Going Your Own Way – Get it? Maybe this is even the source of your perception that we cannot agree on what it means to be MGTOW, again a misunderstanding on your part.

I do know that. And if you're going to be intellectually honest here, then perhaps you should keep in mind that this was a response to someone who claimed I was "looking forward to getting divorce raped" - despite us not really having a divorce industry in my country.

Intellectually honest you say? Well that’s a hoot. Yes, it was indeed a response to an earlier post but the implication was undeniable, that only those from the U.S. and Canada could possibly be affected by such legislation. I was merely pointing out that this is not so. Intellectual honesty? Doctor cure thyself!

I also pointed out that there are other reasons than "law" for fearing marriage, like "human nature" and the inherent, biological gynocentrism of both men and women, the importance of maintaining frame etc. Or to put it in simpler terms: the fact that the security of marriage actually turns women off.

And these things are explored and discussed here on an almost daily basis, but only from an intellectually curious standpoint – these things mean nothing to a MGHOW except in trying to understand what’s happening with others. What’s your point?

Re: Response to my membership request denial

Antagonism is a sure bet telltale to a polar opposite. Nobody gets in my head with their gas-lighting, instigation, innuendos, and all the other bullshit I've seen and learned on my solo trek through this life drenched with gynocentrism!

We're not an echo chamber as you would convince yourself we are, we're a symphony of truth, it's unfortunate you're apparently somewhat hard of hearing.

It's only natural we disassociate than to allow antagonistic opposing core principles to dwell in one place (a house divided will surly fall), our principles and core beliefs are at odds with yours.

I don't live my life correcting others from the platform of beliefs I live on, I merely invite them, and if willing, I show them the way, freed from the plantation and any duties and obligations this culture deems fit.

This site is the deep end of the pool, take your inflatable rubber ducky back to the shallow pool where you belong. It's not safe for you here...

Are the laws and order within your society a bit unreasonable, counterproductive, and even hazardous? That's the mark of feminism diligently at work in your society. Need relief? MGTOW is the only ejection seat available to men facing this live systematic crash and burn scenario.

Re: Response to my membership request denial

Wow. I've not logged on for a week and that was quite some reading. To "Unregistered Guest"; I'm sure I'm beating a dead horse here but:

(1) Try actually just writing the intro as instructed in the How To.
(2) Then you can talk about your broader MGTOW points on the forum.

If your intro shows you're not right for here, then go somewhere else. Its a big world. If we're an echo-chamber, why care what we think? If you don't like it here, stop posting. Not sure what you think you're achieving with all this. You are convincing no-one so I guess you just enjoy posting this stuff.