Spangler wrote:For those who don't know, Martin posted a Theon chapter on his website from The Winds of Winter.

Spoiler:

Theon's chapter were, by far, my favorite chapters in ADWD. Even though I should have known better, I had no clue Theon was Reek early on, and was genuinely stunned when it was revealed.

Can't wait for Ramsay on the show. I really hope they don't combined Cleftjaw's and Ramsay's roles because it kinda looks like that may be the case. The guy who plays Cleftjaw just doesn't fit with my interpretation of Ramsay Snow - I mean Bolton!

I had the same problem, boy did I feel stupid:

Spoiler:

Even after he want to go get Moat Cailin from his countrymen I STILL didn't realize it was him.

Bumping this up because I didn't want to put everything in the TV shows thread, but I finished season 1 of Game of Thrones on HBO and hope to get season 2 watched in the next 2 weeks or so. Great show. Love teh different story lines and how it is more realistic than most fantasies, but enough fantasy that it is not 100% real. A great balance.

I read a few spoilers and kind of know what happens in season 2, but to me, I'm behind the Starks after watching season 1 and also Deaneries (sp?) as she is badass. Tyrion (the imp?) is another great character.

I think I'll pick up the books to read over the holidays coming up, at least the first one or two. Can't wait to start watching season2.

DelPen wrote:With Sean Bean being the biggest name in Season 1 most assumed it was a saga about the Starks. Not so much.

Yeah... this is one of the things that concerns me about the overall longevity of the show. Although I enjoyed the way the story is always changing and there are no characters who are truly safe... I'm not sure how that plays out for the average viewer.

I know one of my co-workers was fairly disappointed with Season 2 overall because he wanted to see more of the Starks and "didn't care about Stannis".

Having read the books, the Stannis-Davos-Melisandre thread was one of my favorites, so I enjoyed that.

It will be interesting to see how people respond to Season 3. Hopefully at least well enough to get season 4 because Book 3 deserves to be fully represented.

DelPen wrote:With Sean Bean being the biggest name in Season 1 most assumed it was a saga about the Starks. Not so much.

Yeah... this is one of the things that concerns me about the overall longevity of the show. Although I enjoyed the way the story is always changing and there are no characters who are truly safe... I'm not sure how that plays out for the average viewer.

I know one of my co-workers was fairly disappointed with Season 2 overall because he wanted to see more of the Starks and "didn't care about Stannis".

Having read the books, the Stannis-Davos-Melisandre thread was one of my favorites, so I enjoyed that.

It will be interesting to see how people respond to Season 3. Hopefully at least well enough to get season 4 because Book 3 deserves to be fully represented.

I'll admit that not reading the books yet (but I did read some spoilers so I kind of know what happens), when you watch Season 1 of the show, it definitely seems the Starks are the Protaganist and the family which the main story will revolve around. Knowing what happens going forward, it may be a shock to the casual viewer.

the wicked child wrote:I know one of my co-workers was fairly disappointed with Season 2 overall because he wanted to see more of the Starks and "didn't care about Stannis".

Overall, I was pretty disappointed with season 2, not for the reasons above though. I really liked the 2nd book, but the season felt off especially comparing it to the 1st which basically followed the book exactly. I think it will prove to be better when I watch it all together rather than wait a week in between. With so much going on, it felt like it would be 2 or 3 weeks, and I only got a few minutes of certain storylines.

PensFanInDC wrote:Technically melisandre is the only true protagonist in the books even if it doesn't seem that way.

Just from a high level summary of the books, that is what it seems. Everyone else is out for their own interest, but melisandre seems to be aware of the greater danger from the north and worry about the entire kingdom being safe.

But like I said, the show makes it seem like the Starks are the protagonist and the Lanisters are the antagonist (in season1), so I can see where people get misguided.

My opinion of Melisandre changed over the course of the books. She does come off as just some evil witch at first, but you soon learn that there is much more to her... And indeed, she may be the only character with common sense.

In order to save the realm she had to allow Stannis to lose in order for him to refocus on the wall? Makes sense

And...

Spoiler:

I can't wait until Jon Snow gets reincarnated with his vows now free and finds his dragon. I am totally down with him being Ned's nephew and not bastard son since A) Ned has too much honor to have cheated and B) him being Lyanna and Rhaegar Targaryen's son which makes him nephew to Daenerys and half brother to Aegon.

In order to save the realm she had to allow Stannis to lose in order for him to refocus on the wall? Makes sense

And...

Spoiler:

I can't wait until Jon Snow gets reincarnated with his vows now free and finds his dragon. I am totally down with him being Ned's nephew and not bastard son since A) Ned has too much honor to have cheated and B) him being Lyanna and Rhaegar Targaryen's son which makes him nephew to Daenerys and half brother to Aegon.

I'm hoping that the dragon thing is right... Jon and Danaerys both kind of bogged down in that book, IMO and were significantly less interesting than in the past. (Which sucks because they were 2 of my favorite characters). That could prove to be quite epic if it indeed comes to pass.

I'm hoping that the dragon thing is right... Jon and Danaerys both kind of bogged down in that book, IMO and were significantly less interesting than in the past. (Which sucks because they were 2 of my favorite characters). That could prove to be quite epic if it indeed comes to pass.

Spoiler:

It was a ploy by Mance to draw Jon down to Winterfell. Melissandre knew Jon would leave and the Watch would revolt and kill him thus releasing him from his vows.

When Jon comes back to life we will see Mance, Stannis and Eheon all waiting for Jon and Melissandre.

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well...i just spent the last 3 months reading all 5 books. it's about time i was able to visit this thread.

some thoughts...

Spoiler:

-the stark family: what a bunch of eff ups. almost all the crap they go through can be traced back to a stupid decision they made somewhere along the way.-i didn't think there could be anything worse than the bran chapters in books 1 and 2, but along came brienne and book 4...good lord. he could have just cut to the chase and spent 5 seconds taking her to catelyn-speaking of which...brienne's delivering jamie to zombie cat now, right? -i hope jon snow doesn't just go full-on warg. i hate any time there's first-person warging going on. i tend to just skim those parts of the book. -jon snow in general - not impress -it was waaaay too far of a reach to see tyrion in front of the dany in the fighting pit and not do anything - especially since he knew that he was about to get mauled by lions. his character would have pleaded/admitted who he was/anything other than just play out his song and dance. he had a lot of options there and did nothing.-and overall, i hated what book 5 did to his character-the actress who plays dany gets a bad rap, but her character doesn't really require a good performance. she's comes across pretty flat in the book as well.-quentyn martell shouldn't be included in the TV show. i don't think they should film most of what happened in mereen, actually.

shmenguin wrote:well...i just spent the last 3 months reading all 5 books. it's about time i was able to visit this thread.

some retorts...

Spoiler:

-Starks are a foot note. Should have never left to go to Kings Landing. Everything went to crap when they left. And if they don't leave you have Ned defending the realm from the Others. -Yup. Not sure how they will work out those two in harrenhal now or how Jamie will lose the hand-Doubt it, he will be resurected no doubt though and free from his vows and join up with Mance and Stannis in Winterfell. -Jon Snow is fine-There was so much going on that Dani wouldn't have cared and she'd have killed Tyrion on the spot. -They will need to change some more things though with Tyrion, Dinklage isn't ugly by any menas and only has a scar now, not half his face gone. But if anything calls for speeding up it's the crap with him on the way to Mereen, it was brutally slow.-She is fairly bland, there's not a lot of depth to most of these characters. -I hope they reveal Aegon sooner and they can just elimante that part but then you need to contrive another way the Dragons get released.

Book 5 was largely disappointing for me... I found myself fairly bored/annoyed with Tyrion, Danaerys and Jon Snow story lines... and they were generally my favorite characters previously. Everything with Mereen was just meh... Also, Tyrion basically just said "Where do whores go?" over and over for the whole book... WTF?

Now, it did end with some intriguing possibilities... but overall, did not advance the story enough for my liking. Most of the story was fairly disposable, IMO... they spent the whole book building up to the battle for the North and then it didn't happen.

I liked Jon a lot prior to book 5... but him in command was just weak... he was so out of place.

Interesting comment re: The Starks. I hadn't really thought about it, but yeah... they did often bring the bad things upon themselves... Ned tried to "steal" the Throne from Joffrey, but didn't have the cajones to kill or imprison him... ended up dead. Robb went against his marriage pact... ended up dead. Sansa... just a head in the clouds feminine hygiene product... has essentially just been a hostage in one house or another. I feel bad for Arya though... she has gone from one **** situation to another. I'm kind of wondering where she ultimately ends up though. Bran... not really into his story and Rickon has been mostly a non-factor thus far... though it seems towards the end of Book 5 that may change.

There are still interesting possibilities for the future... I'm looking forward to the dragon riders kicking some ass and taking names.

Book 5 was largely disappointing for me... I found myself fairly bored/annoyed with Tyrion, Danaerys and Jon Snow story lines... and they were generally my favorite characters previously. Everything with Mereen was just meh... Also, Tyrion basically just said "Where do whores go?" over and over for the whole book... WTF?

Now, it did end with some intriguing possibilities... but overall, did not advance the story enough for my liking. Most of the story was fairly disposable, IMO... they spent the whole book building up to the battle for the North and then it didn't happen.

I liked Jon a lot prior to book 5... but him in command was just weak... he was so out of place.

Interesting comment re: The Starks. I hadn't really thought about it, but yeah... they did often bring the bad things upon themselves... Ned tried to "steal" the Throne from Joffrey, but didn't have the cajones to kill or imprison him... ended up dead. Robb went against his marriage pact... ended up dead. Sansa... just a head in the clouds feminine hygiene product... has essentially just been a hostage in one house or another. I feel bad for Arya though... she has gone from one **** situation to another. I'm kind of wondering where she ultimately ends up though. Bran... not really into his story and Rickon has been mostly a non-factor thus far... though it seems towards the end of Book 5 that may change.

There are still interesting possibilities for the future... I'm looking forward to the dragon riders kicking some ass and taking names.

Spoiler:

The Starks...-Cat and Rob were clearly dumbdumbs-Ned's plan to overthrow the lannisters couldn't have been clumsier-Sansa sold out her own father-Jon Snow chooses the night's watch over Lord of WInterfell...and gets shanked-Arya could have chilled with Lord Beric but ran away into more shenanigans. her whole mental process just kind of sucks in general.-Bran was told to stop climbing, but he did it anyways - and paid for it-Overall, Rickon seems like kind of a little twerp

I'll give the little kids a pass, but regardless, the Starks are just not cut out for that world. i guess it'll still work out..Jon Snow will be some sort of great hero, Arya will probably become a menacing assassin and Bran will be a tree man (though it's not unlike Troll 2 - eesh).

other stuff...-you mentioned it earlier, but what was the point of book 4's prologue? the dude who got killed was the same guy sam was hanging out with when he got to maestertown, right? who was the mystery man? one of the Braavos faceless dudes?-were the "children" who popped out with Varys at the end of book 5 children of the forest? that would be kind of weird-i just started watching the TV show from scratch again after reading the books. so awesome. in episode 2, Jaime shook Jon Snow's hand and they had this unusually tight shot of Jaime's right hand - pretty cool.