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Re: Nets/Pacers postgame thread

I don't think I'm being extreme by just saying I think AJ should play over Lance. I didn't say Lance is the worst basketball player ever or something that would be akin to calling him the most talented guy on the team.

I agree that AJ is a decent player overall, but he does not bring anything to this team that Collison and Hill don't already provide. Lance on the other hand, brings size, handles, and certain kind of Dynamic ability that the other 2 haven't really shown.

Re: Nets/Pacers postgame thread

I said you should probably give him a little more time before you do. Reading what I actually said would be a nice start.

Roll your eyes all you want, but you just contradicted yourself in 2 consecutive sentences. So I'm allowed to evaluate him (thanks!), but wait ... I can't do it yet? So I can't evaluate him then?

The hypocrisy is that you're saying enough time hasn't passed (blah blah), because he hasn't played enough time in the NBA. Well no draft pick has ever played in the NBA at that time, and plenty of evaluations are made. Maybe YOU should read what you said. I guess nobody should ever have an opinion of any player until year 5 in that professional sport.

Re: Nets/Pacers postgame thread

Roll your eyes all you want, but you just contradicted yourself in 2 consecutive sentences. So I'm allowed to evaluate him (thanks!), but wait ... I can't do it yet? So I can't evaluate him then?

The hypocrisy is that you're saying enough time hasn't passed (blah blah), because he hasn't played enough time in the NBA. Well no draft pick has ever played in the NBA at that time, and plenty of evaluations are made. Maybe YOU should read what you said. I guess nobody should ever have an opinion of any player until year 5 in that professional sport.

I've either failed at explaining my position, or you're purposefully distorting what I've said, becaues that's not what I said/meant.

I seriously doubt I'd be complaining about extremism, and my confusion with fighting extremism with extremism, and then offer up an extreme opinion like saying you can't evaluate players.

You're mixing two completely different points.

I said find some valid criticisms, and not hang the discussion on examples that Lance can't control. This discussion is the perfect example, because you're criticizing Lance for a good pass that Tyler didn't catch. That's Tyler's fault.

I said that Larry has said that Lance is the most talented player on the roster, and that he's had more time than you to evaluate Lance. I think we can put more stock into Larry than you, for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is that you've seen limited minutes and Larry has seen a lot more.

Re: Nets/Pacers postgame thread

I've either failed at explaining my position, or you're purposefully distorting what I've said, becaues that's not what I said/meant.

I seriously doubt I'd be complaining about extremism, and my confusion with fighting extremism with extremism, and then offer up an extreme opinion like saying you can't evaluate players.

You're mixing two completely different points.

I said find some valid criticisms, and not hang the discussion on examples that Lance can't control. This discussion is the perfect example, because you're criticizing Lance for a good pass that Tyler didn't catch. That's Tyler's fault.

I said that Larry has said that Lance is the most talented player on the roster, and that he's had more time than you to evaluate Lance. I think we can put more stock into Larry than you, for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is that you've seen limited minutes and Larry has seen a lot more.

But yeah, so contradictory.

I think this particular disagreement is actually whether Lance threw a bad pass or not. Obviously you don't think he did, and others do.

And quite frankly, I don't put much stock into what Larry says about Lance.

edit: and people have said here, people that communicate with the players, that the players pretty much completely disagree with Larry.

Re: Nets/Pacers postgame thread

You just can't claim to know more than the people who work with him every day.

I can claim to be less bias. I can also claim I don't have any need for propaganda to justify drafting a guy who is in the news for pushing a girl down some stairs too.

There's a million reasons that someone in his position would embellish or blatantly lie about that.

I guess you've never had an overzealous salesman throwing information at you and thought .... "Wow, he's just trying to sell me something". I'm guessing your first thought was ... "Wow, I can't claim to know more than this guy who's selling it!".

Re: Nets/Pacers postgame thread

I can claim to be less bias. I can also claim I don't have any need for propaganda to justify drafting a guy who is in the news for pushing a girl down some stairs too.

There's a million reasons that someone in his position would embellish or blatantly lie about that.

I guess you've never had an overzealous salesman throwing information at you and thought .... "Wow, he's just trying to sell me something". I'm guessing your first thought was ... "Wow, I can't claim to know more than this guy who's selling it!".

Your house must be littered with "As Seen on TV" products.

Not to mention the numbers of draftpicks aquired for trades or drafted as our own, signed to contracts and given the extremely talented label (by Larry) most of whom are out of the NBA by now

So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

If you've done 6 impossible things today?
Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

As a passer you have a TON of control over whether the guy catches it. Passes can be too fast at too close of a distance, or they can be off target to where it's hard to catch. Passes can be difficult to catch and thrown to a guy without good hands to make that catch.

There are a million reasons the passer can be at fault for the guy not catching it. Part of being a good passer is knowing who you're passing to and making it catchable.

It's much like the difference between Peyton Manning and Dan Orlovsky. Peyton will put the ball where you have to be bad to not catch it, and Dan puts it where even good receivers have to stumble or stop momentum to catch it. Just like in the NFL, not all passes are equal even if the box score says they both got caught.

Re: Nets/Pacers postgame thread

I think this particular disagreement is actually whether Lance threw a bad pass or not. Obviously you don't think he did, and others do.

And quite frankly, I don't put much stock into what Larry says about Lance.

edit: and people have said here, people that communicate with the players, that the players pretty much completely disagree with Larry.

The guy who used to use his "inside sources" as a reason to justify his personal opinions disappeared once Josh didn't get his 5 million dollar a year contract. I trust Larry's actions(obviously individual comments can be marketing tools) more than your "inside source". Also Larry isn't forcing Vogel to give the kid minutes. Is it unthinkable that a 20 year old has more room to grow than someone 6 years older than him?

Re: Nets/Pacers postgame thread

If we are talking about the pass were Lance was going across the lane infront of the basket and threw a really hard needle pass to Tyler who was cutting baseline. Then absolutely Tyler should have caught that. If you are gonna cut into the lane, you need to be prepared to catch a hard pass. You think Tyler Hansbrough told him in the huddle "not so hard Lance!" ???

Re: Nets/Pacers postgame thread

Moves the ball, moves himself in the right place, making basketball reads (IE, knowing where to move when Danny is planning driving to the basket, so that Danny can kick it out to him when Danny inevitably gets into trouble..) makes the right passes, defends significantly better, handles the ball, doesn't dribble himself into trouble, understands that there are more than himself and the person he's planning on passing to for the assist on the court, runs an offense..and yea, spaces the court. And he came into the league being able to do these things.

Honestly, the only thing Lance does better than AJ is the flashy pass, which is usually a dumb pass anyway.

So in essence, Price is a significant upgrade on the mental aspect of the game, as well as defense, shooting, ball handling, and solid passing (not flashy passing, Lance has got him beat there.)

Price is very good in the pick and roll, but that is something I actually think Lance is pretty decent at. Granted, AJ is probably best to do it with Tyler, just because Tyler is pretty terrible at it (often leaves early, leaving the guard double teamed, and never really setting the pick.) Last year, Price just dealt with it and passed him the ball for the open jumper. DC used to actually call him back and make him do it again.

Sook, I think you overrate Aj's abilities as much as I do Stephensons

Stephenson has more natural talent and ability, see's the floor better, has better size and strength, can post up and drive better

AJ is a better spot up shooter, higher "basketball IQ", Better 3PT shooter, and is more fundamentally sound than Lance

I don't agree with the notion that Vogel is being urged to "give Lance minutes" by someone above him

I personally think that Stephenson has the size and strength to guard certain PG's that would give AJ a difficult time and that is why Vogel is getting him spot minutes here and there

Re: Nets/Pacers postgame thread

Although I have not seen a whole lot of Lance (who really has?) I can say at a similar point in time with Price I was extremely impressed. With Lance I see someone who can be a decent player, but not really anything I would consider impressive. While Price has played bad at points, at other points he looked like he was clearly the best PG on the team. I think the only real reason one can say Collision is clearly better than Price is that Collision has been relatively more consistent than Price.

Between Price and Lance it is no question who is better. The only reason Lance is getting minutes is for the same reasons why Collision, Tyler, and George were given starting jobs last year. Bird and co. have decided that Lance may have a future with the team, and dismissed Price as having a role outside of back-up for a season.

I disagree with that statement

AJ was on a non guranteed contract, the team picked up the option. They could simply have let him walk if they wanted to

Re: Nets/Pacers postgame thread

I dont understand how someone could claim Lance has "played teriibly so far"

How could anyone make that claim in the 15 minutes or so Lance has played this entire season

I dont think you could make an accurate asssesment one way or the other off so little time played

I'd actually really like to see Stephenson get 5-10 minutes with the rest of the starters, and see how that shakes out. Doubt we'll see that lineup anytime soon though. That'd be a true apples to apples comparison with Price.

My gut is that Lance might surprise some folks. There have been a couple of plays in particular where Lance just collapsed the defense that have me wondering.

Re: Nets/Pacers postgame thread

I never said you COULDN'T. I said that it's pretty hard to do with limited minutes, and that Larry has seen more of Lance than you have.

Now I understand why you think everyone twists your words. Your hang on the meaning of every single solitary word like crazy. Okay, you didn't say I can't, but said that I shouldn't (or implied, whatever I don't feel like looking it up and God forbid I be wrong about whether it was said or implied- we would need a whole new server for that debate apparently). What the **** is the difference in the grand scheme of the actual debate? Good God you'll argue the finest details into the ground. I sure hope you're a personal injury lawyer or something. Then you can argue the finer points of the definition of a consenting trespasser with Wal-Mart attorneys all day to your hearts content.