Tatsuma:farking finally. Its been unbearable for people in the south here.

I only support this however if the goal is full invasion and destruction of Hamas and other armed groups firing rockets. Otherwise, its just a lot of people who will die, lots of civilians from collateral damage rather than being shot in the face at close range and will lead to nothing.

Either we go in full measures, or we do not go in. Anything will be a disaster.

So, Tatsuma, since you're the hands-down expert on antisemitism here... Is it antisemitic of me to hope that a moderate sized asteroid strikes the region, and that the last thing both sides see is a blinding flash of light?

It strikes me as ironic that when a movie is made about Americans fighting against an invading/occupying force, they are seen as heroes.

But when Arabs do it in the real world, they're terrorists.

If that invading/occupying force were stopping, say, the genocide of minorities in the US (and NO, there's nothing going on right now that even comes close to qualifying, so don't even try), then yeah, I'd say American resistors were in the wrong. But what about that movie even makes you remotely think, "Well gosh, the Russians did have a noble goal!"... Of course, the fact we're debating a work of fiction in the first place is absurd, so I don't suppose I should be surprised if you didn't argue their side.

sillydragon:So, Tatsuma, since you're the hands-down expert on antisemitism here... Is it antisemitic of me to hope that a moderate sized asteroid strikes the region, and that the last thing both sides see is a blinding flash of light?

Not anti-semitic, no.

However, rather bloodthirsty to wish for the death of hundreds of millions of people just so you can stop reading about it on the internet.

cegorach:How many dead palestinian children are needed before they wake up and realise they need to let God's Chosen People have their lebensraum?

The Israelis can bring order to the mess that is Palestine - maybe organise people by giving them little emblems to sew on their clothes, or fix the housing situation by putting them in nice big camps.

bostonguy:No doubt there will be condemnations of Israel's strikes on Gaza. But remember this: Israel would leave Gaza alone if the terrorists would just stop firing rockets into Israel. It really is that simple. Israel wants to live in peace. Hamas and others want to live without Israel existing.

/ American Israeli in Tel Aviv// Safe from the 130+ rockets fired into Israel over the past three days/// At least until their range increases

Can't and won't happen. It's basic human nature regardless of religion etc....when you have a huge disparity in quality of life and constant supression of one side over the other, the 'lesser' side will always try their best to aggravate and harm their more powerful foe even with benefit of hindsight.When you add religion and historical animosity to the mix, the situation exacerbates

jso2897:Tat'dGreaser: lordjupiter: We send countries money because if we don't, someone else will, and then what? Then it's only a matter of time before one or two countries (Russia and China, most likely) gain a controlling stake in all these teetering countries and we're once again isolated on the Risk board.

It strikes me as ironic that when a movie is made about Americans fighting against an invading/occupying force, they are seen as heroes.

But when Arabs do it in the real world, they're terrorists.

That's because the Wolverines didn't strap explosives to themselves and blow up buses full of civilians. Terrorism means you kill soft-target civilians to spread terror. Guerrilla ops against military forces aren't considered terrorism. The problem is that guerrilla ops don't really work any more in a world with helicopters and smart missiles.

Actually, the Red Dawn kids would have all been dead within a day if that scenario actually played out. That movie was so stupid I wanted to bite the producer.

To all the "here we go!" crowd, stop being stupid. You know how many times Israel has invaded a neighbor in the last 30 years (if you count Gaza as a neighbor)? Lots of times, that's how many.And no one else ever gets involved, except by clandestinely shipping arms to Israel's opponents.

SuperNinjaToad:bostonguy: No doubt there will be condemnations of Israel's strikes on Gaza. But remember this: Israel would leave Gaza alone if the terrorists would just stop firing rockets into Israel. It really is that simple. Israel wants to live in peace. Hamas and others want to live without Israel existing.

/ American Israeli in Tel Aviv// Safe from the 130+ rockets fired into Israel over the past three days/// At least until their range increases

Can't and won't happen. It's basic human nature regardless of religion etc....when you have a huge disparity in quality of life and constant supression of one side over the other, the 'lesser' side will always try their best to aggravate and harm their more powerful foe even with benefit of hindsight.When you add religion and historical animosity to the mix, the situation exacerbates

THIS. It's amazing people don't get it. People want autonomy and a halfway decent quality of life, that is universal. Even though having a border with Eqypt apparently absolves Israel of all wrong doing, this conflict won't end unless Israel lets it end (and the Palestinians agree to whatever territory they're offered and since they're "leaders" are pretty retarded i'm not holding my breath.)

sillydragon:So, Tatsuma, since you're the hands-down expert on antisemitism here... Is it antisemitic of me to hope that a moderate sized asteroid strikes the region, and that the last thing both sides see is a blinding flash of light?

The word you're looking for is misanthropic. You could also go with callous, simple-minded, sophomoric and ignominious.

Communist_Manifesto:SuperNinjaToad: bostonguy: No doubt there will be condemnations of Israel's strikes on Gaza. But remember this: Israel would leave Gaza alone if the terrorists would just stop firing rockets into Israel. It really is that simple. Israel wants to live in peace. Hamas and others want to live without Israel existing.

/ American Israeli in Tel Aviv// Safe from the 130+ rockets fired into Israel over the past three days/// At least until their range increases

Can't and won't happen. It's basic human nature regardless of religion etc....when you have a huge disparity in quality of life and constant supression of one side over the other, the 'lesser' side will always try their best to aggravate and harm their more powerful foe even with benefit of hindsight.When you add religion and historical animosity to the mix, the situation exacerbates

THIS. It's amazing people don't get it. People want autonomy and a halfway decent quality of life, that is universal. Even though having a border with Eqypt apparently absolves Israel of all wrong doing, this conflict won't end unless Israel lets it end (and the Palestinians agree to whatever territory they're offered and since they're "leaders" are pretty retarded i'm not holding my breath.)

Objectively speaking, the ball is in the Palestinians' court. Israel just wants to be left alone. If terrorists in Gaza would simply STOP. FIRING. ROCKETS. then Israel would leave Gaza alone. After all, Israel packed up and left. But, no, the extremists there do not want Israel to exist.

Diogenes Teufelsdrockh:Mid_mo_mad_man:So following your reasoning Canada should belong to the Danes since they where the first to settle it?

As a part Native American man, I can say:

[img21.imageshack.us image 333x200]

You're racist.

Taking over a land and killing off all who've been there for thousands of years doesn't exactly put you on the moral high ground when it comes to ethical considerations of whose land it was. Whether that be the case with the native tribes of the Americas or the native Semitic tribes of the middle east. Yet, ethics are never so simple, are they?

Plus, you need to work on your reading comprehension. Offering up and considering an alternative perspective with an explanation of its grounds is not the same as taking a position. Not everyone is as simplistic in their thinking as you.

Yeah, well my ancestors were cavemen that the Indians massacred you anti-Neanderthalite.

ciberido:It's a little known fact that building supplies have other uses besides constructing bunkers in Gaza for Hamas, as well.

Yes. I know. It's a good thing they have those night vision goggles to help with the midnight construction. And the bullet proof vests to protect them from those half-cured cement shovel fights that those crazy workers like to have.

And so does water, but people still complained when it was not used properly in Cuba.

bostonguy:Communist_Manifesto: SuperNinjaToad: bostonguy: No doubt there will be condemnations of Israel's strikes on Gaza. But remember this: Israel would leave Gaza alone if the terrorists would just stop firing rockets into Israel. It really is that simple. Israel wants to live in peace. Hamas and others want to live without Israel existing.

/ American Israeli in Tel Aviv// Safe from the 130+ rockets fired into Israel over the past three days/// At least until their range increases

Can't and won't happen. It's basic human nature regardless of religion etc....when you have a huge disparity in quality of life and constant supression of one side over the other, the 'lesser' side will always try their best to aggravate and harm their more powerful foe even with benefit of hindsight.When you add religion and historical animosity to the mix, the situation exacerbates

THIS. It's amazing people don't get it. People want autonomy and a halfway decent quality of life, that is universal. Even though having a border with Eqypt apparently absolves Israel of all wrong doing, this conflict won't end unless Israel lets it end (and the Palestinians agree to whatever territory they're offered and since they're "leaders" are pretty retarded i'm not holding my breath.)

Objectively speaking, the ball is in the Palestinians' court. Israel just wants to be left alone. If terrorists in Gaza would simply STOP. FIRING. ROCKETS. then Israel would leave Gaza alone. After all, Israel packed up and left. But, no, the extremists there do not want Israel to exist.

Full stop. That's the situation.

On another note to those who excuse the terrorism because the Israeli blockade and whatnot:

Raise your hand if you think Hamas and others would stop attacking Israel if Israel were to end the blockade and whatnot.

I expect I'll hear crickets. Again, it's up to the Palestinians to choose to live in peace with Israel, and then negotiations can commence from there.

And for those of you who don't know what munitions are:military weapons, ammunition, equipment, and stores...

He failed to mention activists had access to knives, metal rods, clubs, bulletproof vests and night vision goggles. Fifty lacked passports while carrying large amounts of cash. Onboard as well were building supplies, such as cement, routinely used by Hamas to construct bunkers in Gaza.

I like how you contradict yourself in the same post. Makes things a lot quicker. Yeah I remember this story from back when it happened. They raided a ship they had no right to, they found NOTHING but tools and equipment that you would expect to find on an aid ship, and they refused to let a whole bunch of shiat on through because their "embargo list" is not meant to stop the militants from arming up but to keep the civilians miserable.

Did you know they banned chocolate? They stopped banning it later but that's what Israel is doing to Gaza.

Kraftwerk Orange:Russky: NumberFiveIsAlive: I wonder how many people in here will see that the most recent round of violence started with Hamas attacked the IDF. IDF shoots back, Hamas shoots rockets indescriminately.

Israel does their share of stupid shiat, but Hamas ain't the cherub faced baby in this one.

I think most people understand both sides are at fault and nobody is totally in the 'right' here. Now that i said that I'm sure some douche will call me an anti-semite, usually how it goes.

Judaism and Islam are both Semitic religions. So however someone wants to take your comment - blame the Jews, blame the Muslims - either way you're anti-semitic.

To say both sides should look at themselves is hardly being anti semetic, grow up.

bostonguy:Objectively speaking, the ball is in the Palestinians' court. Israel just wants to be left alone. If terrorists in Gaza would simply STOP. FIRING. ROCKETS. then Israel would leave Gaza alone. After all, Israel packed up and left. But, no, the extremists there do not want Israel to exist.

Full stop. That's the situation.

I believe that's an oversimplification, but I agree Palestinians need to stop firing the rockets. On the different side of the same token though, there are Israeli extremists who do not want Palestine to exist. I just think that since Israel has pretty much ALL of the power (let's face it, the iron dome shoots most of these rockets down and they have an airforce and tanks etc.) it is Israel who has to stop the cycle. Maybe instead of responding to rocket attacks, respond with food drops instead of bombs. It's a very messed up situation but I believe that power dynamics only truly change when the entity with the most power decides to give some of it up.

TheBigJerk:I like how you contradict yourself in the same post. Makes things a lot quicker. Yeah I remember this story from back when it happened. They raided a ship they had no right to, they found NOTHING but tools and equipment that you would expect to find on an aid ship, and they refused to let a whole bunch of shiat on through because their "embargo list" is not meant to stop the militants from arming up but to keep the civilians miserable.

Did you know they banned chocolate? They stopped banning it later but that's what Israel is doing to Gaza.

How do you rebuild a destroyed neighborhood without cement?

i included it from the article, because i knew you wouldn't read it. Of course you are just spewing your ignorance. nothing but tools and equipment on an aid ship. bullet proof vests and night vision googles. yep.

You also skipped over the part where they were offered to have their materials scanned. You are welcome to provide the embargo list if you want. But it isn't worth my time arguing with you. After all night vision goggles are fun for the whole family.

bostonguy:bostonguy: On another note to those who excuse the terrorism because the Israeli blockade and whatnot:

Raise your hand if you think Hamas and others would stop attacking Israel if Israel were to end the blockade and whatnot.

I expect I'll hear crickets. Again, it's up to the Palestinians to choose to live in peace with Israel, and then negotiations can commence from there.

I don't "excuse the terrorism". Those who launch the rockets and kill innocents deserve whatever hell that awaits them. If Israel did drop the blockade, it would maybe allow for a more free flow ideas and it might allow for more moderate voices to come to power and replace hammas. As it stands now palestinians live in abject poverty and can point to Israel and say "We have to fight them! They are so evil they won't even allow us concrete to build a building!" Hamas more than likely won't stop attacking Israel, but there are better ways Israel could go about ridding themselves of Hamas.

Thank you for coming out of the woodwork, you illogical poorly-studied simpletons, and taking Hamas' side. You certainly didn't add anything new to the "debate," but reading your moronic hatred and basic inability to grasp simple fact and logic is always usually amusing.

/why yes, that's pure ad hominem... I'm not trying to debate you, your position has been crushed by not only multiple prior Fark threads but by the majority of modern western leaders' opinions as well (ooh, argumentum ad populum et ad vericundiam too!)//but that's why you're so entertaining... you're like truthers, you just never quit

Communist_Manifesto:fanbladesaresharp: Communist_Manifesto: Tatsuma: Communist_Manifesto: I'd continually launch rockets at you as well if you kept me segregated in an apartheid prison state

They have a border with Egypt that is controlled by Egypt. Until they fired rockets, not a single Israeli soldier in Gaza.

How is that either a prison, or an Apartheid state?

Israel does not allow freedom of movement for palestinians within Israel and entirely controls the flow of goods and people going to and from the palestinian territories. Sounds like apartheid to me. Palestine is basically an open air prison because Israel controls it with an iron fist.

Link

So move retards. Go claim some other spot on Earth and make it yours. Hell some of us in the US are offering (figuratively) states for the taking. Or a nice ranch in Wyoming. Or a ski area in CA. Pick something, you'll fit in.

It's hard to move out of a country when you don't have access to the money it takes to move like that. It is also very difficult to get a passport as a palestinian. That's an overly simple "solution" that doesn't take into account that they might have history there and they don't necessarily want to move.

OH cry me a farking river. Access to money my ass. Hell even the homeless guys in my town pull in $5 an hour at least. In the rain. In a remote part of CA. Sometimes, it's just best to move your ass out of the way.

Seraphym:My list of red names always swells during one of these threads.

Thank you for coming out of the woodwork, you illogical poorly-studied simpletons, and taking Hamas' side. You certainly didn't add anything new to the "debate," but reading your moronic hatred and basic inability to grasp simple fact and logic is always usually amusing.

/why yes, that's pure ad hominem... I'm not trying to debate you, your position has been crushed by not only multiple prior Fark threads but by the majority of modern western leaders' opinions as well (ooh, argumentum ad populum et ad vericundiam too!)//but that's why you're so entertaining... you're like truthers, you just never quit

Thank you for coming out of the woodwork, you illogical poorly-studied simpletons, and taking Hamas' side. You certainly didn't add anything new to the "debate," but reading your moronic hatred and basic inability to grasp simple fact and logic is always usually amusing.

/why yes, that's pure ad hominem... I'm not trying to debate you, your position has been crushed by not only multiple prior Fark threads but by the majority of modern western leaders' opinions as well (ooh, argumentum ad populum et ad vericundiam too!)//but that's why you're so entertaining... you're like truthers, you just never quit

Vegan Meat Popsicle:Oh good. A bunch of people who think a magic sky man gave them a chunk of desert in the middle of someone else's property are going to go beat the shiat out of a bunch of people who think the appropriate response to losing their land is to blow up buses and pizzerias full of innocent people who largely had nothing to do with it.

CynicalLA:Communist_Manifesto: Seraphym: My list of red names always swells during one of these threads.

Thank you for coming out of the woodwork, you illogical poorly-studied simpletons, and taking Hamas' side. You certainly didn't add anything new to the "debate," but reading your moronic hatred and basic inability to grasp simple fact and logic is always usually amusing.

/why yes, that's pure ad hominem... I'm not trying to debate you, your position has been crushed by not only multiple prior Fark threads but by the majority of modern western leaders' opinions as well (ooh, argumentum ad populum et ad vericundiam too!)//but that's why you're so entertaining... you're like truthers, you just never quit

You sound fat

At least he didn't call everyone anti-semetic. I'm sure he wanted to.

He did make the claim that everyone who doesn't support Israel 100% a supporter of Hamas though, so he came close!

Thank you for coming out of the woodwork, you illogical poorly-studied simpletons, and taking Hamas' side. You certainly didn't add anything new to the "debate," but reading your moronic hatred and basic inability to grasp simple fact and logic is always usually amusing.

/why yes, that's pure ad hominem... I'm not trying to debate you, your position has been crushed by not only multiple prior Fark threads but by the majority of modern western leaders' opinions as well (ooh, argumentum ad populum et ad vericundiam too!)//but that's why you're so entertaining... you're like truthers, you just never quit

You sound fat

Ooooh, The communist is butthurt. If "you sound fat" is your retort, you've lost the arguement, homey. Go troll another thread.

fanbladesaresharp:OH cry me a farking river. Access to money my ass. Hell even the homeless guys in my town pull in $5 an hour at least. In the rain. In a remote part of CA. Sometimes, it's just best to move your ass out of the way.

A one way plane ticket from tel aviv to nyc is $530. The gross national income per capita is $1367. So you're saying they should be able to save almost have of their income for a plane ticket? What do they do when they get here? They can't buy anything, do anything etc. because they don't have money. So while your anecdote about homeless people getting $5 an hour is a great way to make yourself feel better while being a callous ass, it doesn't prove that they can simply move.

fanbladesaresharp:Communist_Manifesto: Seraphym: My list of red names always swells during one of these threads.

Thank you for coming out of the woodwork, you illogical poorly-studied simpletons, and taking Hamas' side. You certainly didn't add anything new to the "debate," but reading your moronic hatred and basic inability to grasp simple fact and logic is always usually amusing.

/why yes, that's pure ad hominem... I'm not trying to debate you, your position has been crushed by not only multiple prior Fark threads but by the majority of modern western leaders' opinions as well (ooh, argumentum ad populum et ad vericundiam too!)//but that's why you're so entertaining... you're like truthers, you just never quit

You sound fat

Ooooh, The communist is butthurt. If "you sound fat" is your retort, you've lost the arguement, homey. Go troll another thread.

Oh look at the sharp fan blade butt hurt. My ad hominem retort to the guy who was making ad hominem attacks and saying he wasn't here to debate is now butthurt and a poor argument? Do you realize how farking dumb you are?

Israel is kicking things off. The incursion last Saturday that started this mess was a blatant intentional provocation. This is coming immediately after the US elections. They've been planning for major operations for months (I hope we haven't already forgotten the preparation-porn they were showing over the summer). I'm not saying the real target is Iran... but the real target is Iran.

Hopefully Israel will get the ass-kicking it deserves, knocking some sense into their society just as the Angolan war was the deathblow to Apartheid in South Africa.

bostonguyRaise your hand if you think Hamas and others would stop attacking Israel if Israel were to end the blockade and whatnot.

That was exactly the condition on which Hamas agreed to the above cease-fire.Israel didn't hold up their end. Hamas did. This is a fact.

Communist_Manifesto:fanbladesaresharp: OH cry me a farking river. Access to money my ass. Hell even the homeless guys in my town pull in $5 an hour at least. In the rain. In a remote part of CA. Sometimes, it's just best to move your ass out of the way.

A one way plane ticket from tel aviv to nyc is $530. The gross national income per capita is $1367. So you're saying they should be able to save almost have of their income for a plane ticket? What do they do when they get here? They can't buy anything, do anything etc. because they don't have money. So while your anecdote about homeless people getting $5 an hour is a great way to make yourself feel better while being a callous ass, it doesn't prove that they can simply move.

You aren't trying hard enough. Or are unemployed and NOT trying. $530 is chump change even to the street people and the weed growers and surfing Kayak for plane tickets is free at the library. So is getting a GreenDot Visa (minus the load charge) to pay for them.. Try to keep up with the times, buddy.

fanbladesaresharp:Communist_Manifesto: fanbladesaresharp: OH cry me a farking river. Access to money my ass. Hell even the homeless guys in my town pull in $5 an hour at least. In the rain. In a remote part of CA. Sometimes, it's just best to move your ass out of the way.

A one way plane ticket from tel aviv to nyc is $530. The gross national income per capita is $1367. So you're saying they should be able to save almost have of their income for a plane ticket? What do they do when they get here? They can't buy anything, do anything etc. because they don't have money. So while your anecdote about homeless people getting $5 an hour is a great way to make yourself feel better while being a callous ass, it doesn't prove that they can simply move.

You aren't trying hard enough. Or are unemployed and NOT trying. $530 is chump change even to the street people and the weed growers and surfing Kayak for plane tickets is free at the library. So is getting a GreenDot Visa (minus the load charge) to pay for them.. Try to keep up with the times, buddy.

You're seriously arguing that since someone living on the street in America can feasibly buy a plane ticket, and in spite of the fact that the ticket price is almost have of the income of the average palestinian, that they "just aren't trying hard enough?" And why does my employment status matter at all in this? You're telling the palestinians to move, I try to explain why that's not as easy as you make it out to be and you respond to a totally different situation.

RanDomino:Israel is kicking things off. The incursion last Saturday that started this mess was a blatant intentional provocation. This is coming immediately after the US elections. They've been planning for major operations for months (I hope we haven't already forgotten the preparation-porn they were showing over the summer). I'm not saying the real target is Iran... but the real target is Iran.

Hopefully Israel will get the ass-kicking it deserves, knocking some sense into their society just as the Angolan war was the deathblow to Apartheid in South Africa.

bostonguyRaise your hand if you think Hamas and others would stop attacking Israel if Israel were to end the blockade and whatnot.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x579]That was exactly the condition on which Hamas agreed to the above cease-fire.Israel didn't hold up their end. Hamas did. This is a fact.

Wow. Somebody defending Hamas.

Are you one of those "The 911 hijackers were basically just patriots" people too?

They have a choice to end the blockade of Gaza, withdraw the illegal settlements from the West Bank, allow Palestine to have a functional government, give control of Palestinian water and borders to Palestine (before the derp, Egypt is paid billions of dollars a year by the US to keep their border with Gaza locked up, so don't even try that line)...

You can claim that they would still be hated, but we'll never know for sure until they do, now will we?

They have a choice to end the blockade of Gaza, withdraw the illegal settlements from the West Bank, allow Palestine to have a functional government, give control of Palestinian water and borders to Palestine (before the derp, Egypt is paid billions of dollars a year by the US to keep their border with Gaza locked up, so don't even try that line)...

You can claim that they would still be hated, but we'll never know for sure until they do, now will we?

Because you didn't include the phrase hamas sucks your argument is invalid apparently. I had Tatsuma upthread argue that because there weren't Israelis in gaza right now and they had a border with Egypt that Israel didn't control palestine at all. Then he tried to equate the US and Mexico to Israel and Palestine.

Communist_Manifesto:fanbladesaresharp: Communist_Manifesto: fanbladesaresharp: OH cry me a farking river. Access to money my ass. Hell even the homeless guys in my town pull in $5 an hour at least. In the rain. In a remote part of CA. Sometimes, it's just best to move your ass out of the way.

A one way plane ticket from tel aviv to nyc is $530. The gross national income per capita is $1367. So you're saying they should be able to save almost have of their income for a plane ticket? What do they do when they get here? They can't buy anything, do anything etc. because they don't have money. So while your anecdote about homeless people getting $5 an hour is a great way to make yourself feel better while being a callous ass, it doesn't prove that they can simply move.

You aren't trying hard enough. Or are unemployed and NOT trying. $530 is chump change even to the street people and the weed growers and surfing Kayak for plane tickets is free at the library. So is getting a GreenDot Visa (minus the load charge) to pay for them.. Try to keep up with the times, buddy.

You're seriously arguing that since someone living on the street in America can feasibly buy a plane ticket, and in spite of the fact that the ticket price is almost have of the income of the average palestinian, that they "just aren't trying hard enough?" And why does my employment status matter at all in this? You're telling the palestinians to move, I try to explain why that's not as easy as you make it out to be and you respond to a totally different situation.

Yeah idiot, I can. So long as they have a valid ID. It's not easy? You're a goddam fool then. Thing is you make bullshiat claims in your little tirade with Tatsuma and you get called on some specifics. Your reply "you sound fat".

I just talked to a couple of the local homeless guys (that are usually drunk, if not spun out) that come into my work. They know how to work the various systems you seem to think make life impossible. They know how to deal with life. Some of them choose that. If the Palestinians can't manage to pack their shiat up and leave, or lack the intellect to do so, then how do they manage to lob rockets daily? Obviously they're complete morons that need protection right?

So yes, the poor, poor Palis can STFU and move. How far do they need to go? 20 miles? Goddam I can walk that by morning, and panhandle the entire way. I'm sure there'e a fig orchard for them to rob on the way if they're hungry.

They have a choice to end the blockade of Gaza, withdraw the illegal settlements from the West Bank, allow Palestine to have a functional government, give control of Palestinian water and borders to Palestine (before the derp, Egypt is paid billions of dollars a year by the US to keep their border with Gaza locked up, so don't even try that line)...

You can claim that they would still be hated, but we'll never know for sure until they do, now will we?

Because you didn't include the phrase hamas sucks your argument is invalid apparently. I had Tatsuma upthread argue that because there weren't Israelis in gaza right now and they had a border with Egypt that Israel didn't control palestine at all. Then he tried to equate the US and Mexico to Israel and Palestine.

Because you keep moving the goal posts and we're all watching you do it.

The whole 'LEAVE ISRAEL ALONE' whinefest might hold some water if it wasn't, you know, for the fact that Israelis actively expand into Palestinian territory.

It's not like the Israelis passively sit within defined borders while those awful Palestinians bulldoze their homes and move in.

But let me clarify.

The problem isn't really 'Israelis'.

It's 'Right Wing Israelis and their dominance of the nation'.

For the minority of left leaning Israelis who genuinely want a harmonious relationship with Palestine and don't endorse the fascism of the right, I feel the utmost pity.

As with those Israeli civilians killed as a result of right wing warmongering.

And the exponentially higher numbers of Palestinian civilians killed for the same reason.

I find it hard to grasp that people freak the fark out regarding terrorism, carried out by an oppressed people who have no other military or diplomatic option, kills a small number of people yet applaud when a 'surgical strike' from a nation with vast military, economic and political superiority takes out fifty times the number of civilians as 'collateral damage'.

But let's face facts.

For all the squawking about anti-semitism, Tats and co quite simply believe that an Israeli life has an intrinsic value equal to that of dozens of dirty Palestinians.

That's the only way they can reconcile the simple, factual numbers of how this has played out over the years.