I've been using CS3 for several days now and have discovered what I think are bugs. I called Adobe and they assured me it was my system, not the program. . . yeah, right.

Two of the bugs I've had are the following:

1) Printing. Previously, if you used a printer other than the default, all subsequent printing would use that printer and setup until you changed it. Now, every image defaults back to the default printer. My default printer is a color laser -- great for everything but Photoshop. For Photoshop, I use the 4000 driver or one of my Colorburst RIP. It's annoying when I'm working on and proofing images for large jobs. The tech support guy for Adobe assured me that the printer setting should remain the same, not change back to default with each new image.

2) The image sizing pallet behaves differently from before. Previously, you could resize an image and change one setting to display percentage afterward so you could see a scaled dimension as the percentage of enlargement. Now, if you change the one dimension to show percentage after changing the size, it shows "100%", which is obviously not the case. Now you have to change dimension to percentage BEFORE resizing to get an accurate read on scale.

These may just be quirks, but for me, they're annoying in my workflow. Anyone else see it this way? Any other quirks or bugs discovered?

Just change the printer you use to the default. This was discussed in depth in another thread and arguably Photoshop is acting correctly now (and not before) in that it is choosing the printer which you have set as the default to do your printing.

Thanks for directing me to the blog. It explained a lot, and also highlighted the stupidity of the Photoshop printing module, that it can't seem to pickup (or doesn't want to pick up) data regarding a printer's margins. Pretty dumb. I also have no desire to "print the way a Mac prints" in Photoshop. I want to print the way I want to print, and have for many years -- set the printer setup once and go on my merry way. Carol's suggestion of resetting the default printer is unworkable. I'm often doing multiple things at once: picking up emails and printing out shot selections from clients as I'm working on the RAW and outputting proofs, outputting the FedEx airbill. This is, after all, about multi-tasking. It's a small thing, but all other programs can maitain printer settings program-wide. Why can't Photoshop?

It explained a lot, and also highlighted the stupidity of the Photoshop printing module, that it can't seem to pickup (or doesn't want to pick up) data regarding a printer's margins.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122457\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Then you didn't understand what Dave said...1) in Vista, page margins are READ ONLY...meaning an application can't change them and 2) this is the way it's always been for Mac. So, for CS3, all page margins are respected by Photoshop CS3 regardless of what system you are on. For XP, this is a change. Tough. It's not "dumb", it's the way it is. Photoshop has been trying to cover for the problems caused by print drivers and now, for Vista they can't. So, it will be up to the printer companies to fix their own darn problems cause Photoshop can't any more.

With regards to the "Default Printer" issue, what part of "default" don't you understand. When a printer is set as "default" in the system, application should respect that-right? I mean you set it to default, right? Perhaps for the way YOU use your printers, the Photoshop CS2 approach of ignoring defaults was convenient but it can be argued that it violated the concept of "default" as set by the OS. Personally, I would argue that CS3 FIXES the previous misbehavior of CS2.

That's what Dave wrote...trying to explain that. And it ain't a bug when the engineering is done that way on purpose.

Then you didn't understand what Dave said...1) in Vista, page margins are READ ONLY...meaning an application can't change them and 2) this is the way it's always been for Mac. So, for CS3, all page margins are respected by Photoshop CS3 regardless of what system you are on. For XP, this is a change. Tough. It's not "dumb", it's the way it is. Photoshop has been trying to cover for the problems caused by print drivers and now, for Vista they can't. So, it will be up to the printer companies to fix their own darn problems cause Photoshop can't any more.

With regards to the "Default Printer" issue, what part of "default" don't you understand. When a printer is set as "default" in the system, application should respect that-right? I mean you set it to default, right? Perhaps for the way YOU use your printers, the Photoshop CS2 approach of ignoring defaults was convenient but it can be argued that it violated the concept of "default" as set by the OS. Personally, I would argue that CS3 FIXES the previous misbehavior of CS2.

That's what Dave wrote...trying to explain that. And it ain't a bug when the engineering is done that way on purpose.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122458\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I do not uderstand the reason to be offensive at any time.

I'm so experienced on software that I can affirm that the rule: systemdefault = applicationdefault can be assumed or not. In any case it is not a violation.

I think (I am sure) that an application must try to satisfy Clients.I wrote Clients with an initial capital letter. It seems Adobe is ignoring Clients.

I do not uderstand the reason to be offensive at any time.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122470\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I wasn't trying to be offensive...when I'm trying to be offensive, I leave no doubt of my intentions...I was being conversational. I would have said the words in the exact same manner if the guy I was talking to were standing right in front of me-and I wasn't talking to you, was I?

The post I was responding to (from nemophoto) said that what Dave wrote "highlighted the stupidity of the Photoshop printing module" and went on to say that the way CS3 dealt with margins was "Pretty dumb".

Uh huh. . .well, in Vista, page margins are now READ ONLY and set by the print driver...meaning that the system won't let an application change them. So, for the entire Windows version of Photoshop CS3, the ability to have Photoshop TRY to force the margins was removed...some people don't like that. Uh huh, I get that...tough.

MSFT decided to change the way the OS works...applications have to adapt. And expecting Photoshop to adapt to TWO DIFFERENT OS REQUIRMENTS just ain't gonna happen. If you want to complain to somebody, complain to MSFT for changing Windows. Or, complain to the printer makers for writting drivers that suck for users who print photos. You might have a shot of the printer companies listening...

Jeff has a very outspoken, direct, honest writing style that often seems to rub some people the wrong way (me included). However, he is very generous in sharing his vast knowledge with the rest of us, and for that I am extremely grateful. I have learned a huge amount from him. I also think he has been deliberately toning down his rhetoric lately, probably at Michael's request. And when he says,

Quote

I wasn't trying to be offensive...when I'm trying to be offensive, I leave no doubt of my intentions...I was being conversational.

, you can bet he's telling it exactly like it is.

That being said, thanks to Jeff, I now understand why printing in CS3 is "broke," in my view and for many others who are used to the way PS has always behaved in Windows. And, yes, the main fault seems to be Microsoft's messing up Vista.

For me, upgrading to CS3 or Vista will have to wait until somebody (Adobe, Microsoft, Epson, Hackers Anonymous, ...) comes up with a way (1) to set an application-default printer that is sticky at least through a PS session, and (2) to work around the stupid "read-only" margins so that a print can be centered easily. Until those (mandatory, for me) features are there, CS3 and Vista are dead in the water as far as I am concerned.

For me, upgrading to CS3 or Vista will have to wait until somebody (Adobe, Microsoft, Epson, Hackers Anonymous, ...) comes up with a way (1) to set an application-default printer that is sticky at least through a PS session, and (2) to work around the stupid "read-only" margins so that a print can be centered easily. Until those (mandatory, for me) features are there, CS3 and Vista are dead in the water as far as I am concerned.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122579\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

"Then you didn't understand what Dave said..."I think it is offensive.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122563\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

English isn't your native language, is it?

Go back and reread what I wrote...I was telling nemophoto that he didn't understand what Dave wrote...which is very clear and obvious to anybody who read what Dave wrote...have YOU read what Dave wrote? Did YOU understand it? If you did, I think you would have to agree that nemophoto didn't understand what Dave wrote...

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I think I'm free to expose my opinions.

Yep...right up to the point where Michael says enough...this ain't a democracy bud...this is a private forum for the use of registered users of the Luminour Landscape. You are free to "expose" (did you mean express?) your opinions, no matter how screwed up they are...

:~)

Now, you wanna to get in a dustup with me or do you wanna talk about the issue at hand?

As to the rest of the folks who are gonna bypass Photoshop CS3 because of this "issue" ok, fine...read what Dave wrote...you'll be sitting around and waiting till Photoshop CS4 then...too bad really, Photoshop CS3, Camera Raw 4.1 and Bridge 2.1 are all pretty darn good. But if you are too lazy to 1) change your default printers and 2) make custom margins that are all equal than therefore wish to stay on Photoshop CS2, that is your right. Have fun being a step behind on the rest of your workflow.

As to the rest of the folks who are gonna bypass Photoshop CS3 because of this "issue" ok, fine...read what Dave wrote...you'll be sitting around and waiting till Photoshop CS4 then...too bad really, Photoshop CS3, Camera Raw 4.1 and Bridge 2.1 are all pretty darn good. But if you are too lazy to 1) change your default printers and 2) make custom margins that are all equal than therefore wish to stay on Photoshop CS2, that is your right. Have fun being a step behind on the rest of your workflow.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122640\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I would love to use the new goodies in CS3. But with all the finger-pointing that has gone on, it's quite possible that I haven't understood everything. I'd really like clarification on two points:

1. With respect to "changing my default printer": If, for example, I want to print, say, three different photos from PS to my Epson printer, and while that is going on, print three messages from my email onto my (normal default -- for everything except PS) HP Laserjet, it has sounded to me as if I have just two choices in Windows/CS3: One is to set my default printer to the Epson before I go into PS to print, and then go into the print dialog to specify the HP three separate times, once for each email message. The other is to do the reverse: Leave the HP as my default printer, and then in PS I will have to tell it to use the Epson separately for each and every print. Do I have that right?

2. With respect to the margins: I thought that Vista's margins were "read-only", so I would have no way to "make custom margins that are all equal". Can I in fact in CS3/Vista set something (custom paper size or whatever) so that I could in fact print to my Epson printer and get equal margins all around? I'm willing to do a little arithmetic once in a while, especially if I can make something into a sticky setting.

1. With respect to "changing my default printer": If, for example, I want to print, say, three different photos from PS to my Epson printer, and while that is going on, print three messages from my email onto my (normal default -- for everything except PS) HP Laserjet, it has sounded to me as if I have just two choices in Windows/CS3: One is to set my default printer to the Epson before I go into PS to print, and then go into the print dialog to specify the HP three separate times, once for each email message. The other is to do the reverse: Leave the HP as my default printer, and then in PS I will have to tell it to use the Epson separately for each and every print. Do I have that right?[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Correct...all applications are supposed to default to the system set "default printer"...

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2. With respect to the margins: I thought that Vista's margins were "read-only", so I would have no way to "make custom margins that are all equal". Can I in fact in CS3/Vista set something (custom paper size or whatever) so that I could in fact print to my Epson printer and get equal margins all around? I'm willing to do a little arithmetic once in a while, especially if I can make something into a sticky setting.

The Printer Margins are something that are supposed to be set in the printer properties..once set in the properties then yes, they are now considered "read only" from the standpoint of the applications (meaning Photoshop can't come in and slam the margins to zero-which is what CS2 did). So, as long as the print driver allows setting "Maximum", or "Borderless" or custom margins where all 4 margins are equal, then yes, Photoshop CS3 can print centered...if the print properties margins are reporting unequal margins then Photoshop CS3 can't do anything about that. Since CS3 now respects the margins that the driver are reporting.

Which, arguably is correct behavior...which is also the way print drivers on Mac are. Which is what Dave wrote...

Adobe now has a technote about this (Mark, Dave decided it was worth it) see: [a href=\"http://www.adobe.com/go/kb402021]Photoshop CS3 images are not centered on Epson printers[/url]

Which DOESN'T apply to the new 3800 Win drivers since Epson "fixed" their drivers to report, at default, four margins of .13 inches...rather than the old 48/78/9800 drivers which report Top and Sides of .13 and a Bottom of .56.

So, ya see, it really is an Epson driver issue-something that Photoshop CS2 WAS able to overcome on XP, but which CS3 CAN NOT overcome on Vista...

Correct...all applications are supposed to default to the system set "default printer"...

I would agree with that is the correct behaviour when the application opens, however, Photoshop deviates from the Windows norm by defaulting to the default printer every time the print dialogue box is opened.

The normal Windows behaviour exhibited by all Microsoft applications is to default to the default printer the first time that the user opens the print dialogue box after the application is started, however, should the printer or any of the settings be changed then these settings are retained each time the print dialogue is opened until the application is closed and restarted.

The current Photoshop behaviour is more than annoying it is a major design failure and neither improves efficiency in the workflow nor does it adhere to the standards that windows users have become accustomed to.

I would urge Adobe to rethink the behaviour of the windows dialogue box, however, suspect that this is not considered to be the major problem that it is. Suggesting that windows users have to change the default printer settings so that the settings stick each time you wish to run off 4-5 prints on the same paper is madness.

I would agree with that is the correct behaviour when the application opens, however, Photoshop deviates from the Windows norm by defaulting to the default printer every time the print dialogue box is opened.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122696\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Correct...all applications are supposed to default to the system set "default printer"...The Printer Margins are something that are supposed to be set in the printer properties..once set in the properties then yes, they are now considered "read only" from the standpoint of the applications (meaning Photoshop can't come in and slam the margins to zero-which is what CS2 did). So, as long as the print driver allows setting "Maximum", or "Borderless" or custom margins where all 4 margins are equal, then yes, Photoshop CS3 can print centered...if the print properties margins are reporting unequal margins then Photoshop CS3 can't do anything about that. Since CS3 now respects the margins that the driver are reporting.

Which, arguably is correct behavior...which is also the way print drivers on Mac are. Which is what Dave wrote...

Which DOESN'T apply to the new 3800 Win drivers since Epson "fixed" their drivers to report, at default, four margins of .13 inches...rather than the old 48/78/9800 drivers which report Top and Sides of .13 and a Bottom of .56.

So, ya see, it really is an Epson driver issue-something that Photoshop CS2 WAS able to overcome on XP, but which CS3 CAN NOT overcome on Vista...

I'd like an answer to that one, too. Some of this discussion has left me with the impression that this has now changed in Vista, in which case I will indeed want to wait as long as possible before going the Vista route.

The behavious is determined by the application not the operating system. So, if I look at Microsoft Office on Win2K, XP, Vista it all exhibits the same behavious as to the default on first printer dialogue box and then sticky settings (e.g. printer setting changes) during the session.

I somehow doubt that the behaviour has changed for new applications (old application run the same on Vista as XP), but I am not a developer and there may be some missive from Microsoft instructing developers to follow a different policy - however, I suspect there would have been some noise about it if that was the case.

Adobe with PS CS3 has struck out in a different direction from all other windows applications - without giving any good reason for doing so.