They took a step towards that with the addition of Ahead of the Curve / Cutting Edge FoS, and now with exclusive rewards like Kor'kron that won't be available after 6.0. Tie titles to Ahead of the Curve / Cutting Edge FoS as well and it would be fine for me.

Thinking now, there could be somewhere in game where you could see the name of all guilds who completed Ahead of the Curve / Cutting Edge, alongside all raiders names. As an example, there would be this board near that Tree that appears after Garrosh's defeat and anyone would be able to see all guilds who had cleared that. As this would be tied to Ahead of the Curve / Cutting Edge, clearing it afterwards wouldn't add your name there and your guild / raiders would have their name printed there "forever". Maybe just for Cutting Edge? Not sure.

You could never do permanent stat gains that are only obtainable in current heroic Garrosh for example. You'd never be able to catchup for new players. You'd basically be making content only available to a smaller and smaller audience. I don't know how many people are still playing that cleared vanilla Naxx but it has to be tiny. Can you imagine them balancing stuff around all that collected stat boosts?

And then people would be selling their accounts because they have bonus stats. That's why the only permanent rewards can only be vanity rewards. It'd be an absolute disaster if your character became more powerful just because you played for a long time.

I tihnk the Challenge mode dungeons was a good step in the right direction. So was Brawlers guild. I'd like to see more of it in the future.. I don't really know what else you think raiding should offer.. They can't reward raiders with items that will stay good forever so

So, basically you want rewards to be permanent right, because currently they aren't, unless they are fun/cosmetic/toys etc.

So....how the hell do you play an MMO then?

One set of gear that just upgrades and upgrades and upgrades? Wow, let's totally go against the entire idea of an MMO...

Progression.

Something permanent, upgradable or not, isn't progression.

You get gear, it gets replaced, you level up, that becomes low level, you gain stats, you lose stats, it's what an MMO is.

Gear SHOULD be useless in a new expansion, it's...new...content, the closest and best thing they could do, they have, adding the Ahead of the Curve achieves to "prove" your rate of progression, and the Heirlooms that reward you for killing a boss that lasts the entire levelling process of the next expansion, for the first time ever.

Permanent and MMO don't go together if it effects game play, it just doesn't, it's part of the package and the attraction to an extent, there is no true game over. Mounts etc, of course.

So, basically you want rewards to be permanent right, because currently they aren't, unless they are fun/cosmetic/toys etc.

So....how the hell do you play an MMO then?

One set of gear that just upgrades and upgrades and upgrades? Wow, let's totally go against the entire idea of an MMO...

Progression.

Something permanent, upgradable or not, isn't progression.

You get gear, it gets replaced, you level up, that becomes low level, you gain stats, you lose stats, it's what an MMO is.

Gear SHOULD be useless in a new expansion, it's...new...content, the closest and best thing they could do, they have, adding the Ahead of the Curve achieves to "prove" your rate of progression, and the Heirlooms that reward you for killing a boss that lasts the entire levelling process of the next expansion, for the first time ever.

Permanent and MMO don't go together if it effects game play, it just doesn't, it's part of the package and the attraction to an extent, there is no true game over. Mounts etc, of course.

You mistake your opinion for fact, that's why everything you just said makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Decklan

Pretty much.

Anything that could permanently affect your character's performance would be cool, but ultimately would hurt the game as people would feel those without it were disadvantaged for not having them.

The game must keep moving forward, and is thus why gear will never be permanent. When the game stagnates in progression is when people stop playing.

Vanity is really the only answer.

Depends on what the effected performance boost was about. Ex. gathering herbs faster isn't mandatory or a game changer, but it is a performance upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Razecog

Some guilds would take the permanent stat increases, no matter how small they are, as a requirement.

So Vanity items are fucking amazing.

Ofc if it was something that made your character have a edge in competitive game play, but if they implemented something new that wasn't a necessity for min/max players then it would not be a requirement.
Yes, some vanity items are cool such as transmog and maybe a couple of mounts i guess :P

Thanks dude!
I think so because i would imagine Blizz has the worlds best developers/designers, compared to me without a degree or xp, XD

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Originally Posted by Ahandii

I tihnk the Challenge mode dungeons was a good step in the right direction. So was Brawlers guild. I'd like to see more of it in the future.. I don't really know what else you think raiding should offer.. They can't reward raiders with items that will stay good forever so

While its still a legitimate complaint, the fact is that WoW still offers the best and largest end game content.
Go try and find something better out there in the market. Most mmos in the last years don't even have raids or they have just some minimum crap dungeons thrown at you for an excuse of end game.

So, basically you want rewards to be permanent right, because currently they aren't, unless they are fun/cosmetic/toys etc.

So....how the hell do you play an MMO then?

One set of gear that just upgrades and upgrades and upgrades? Wow, let's totally go against the entire idea of an MMO...

Progression.

Something permanent, upgradable or not, isn't progression.

You get gear, it gets replaced, you level up, that becomes low level, you gain stats, you lose stats, it's what an MMO is.

Gear SHOULD be useless in a new expansion, it's...new...content, the closest and best thing they could do, they have, adding the Ahead of the Curve achieves to "prove" your rate of progression, and the Heirlooms that reward you for killing a boss that lasts the entire levelling process of the next expansion, for the first time ever.

Permanent and MMO don't go together if it effects game play, it just doesn't, it's part of the package and the attraction to an extent, there is no true game over. Mounts etc, of course.

Originally Posted by Yygers

You mistake your opinion for fact, that's why everything you just said makes no sense.

To just dismiss this post makes even less sense

What Toiran said was spot on. The entire point to an MMO is progression. If you just get gear pieces that then just get upgrade after upgrade, it'd get super boring. Very quickly.

I mean... I just don't understand what you're really looking for. Whatever it is, I'm not sure it's an MMO.
An MMO relies on progressing your character. And in an RPG, that's generally through getting better items and increased levels/stats. Eventually, you'll hit the current cap of levels and that's when you rely on obtaining better and better gear. Then, at some point, new content gets added to the MMO and you basically start the process again. You increase your player power through levels and basic stat gain and then do your best to get the newer gear, further progressing yourself.

To remove any of that is almost to just remove the entire point behind something like WoW.
That said, could we benefit from something like the Path of the Titans system? Sure we could.

Mounts, Pets, Titles... all things that should never be removed too. The people actually able to get them will get them and wear/show them proudly up until the next raid and it's new mounts and titles and so on. You should never have to remove anything. The reward here is the challenge the raid provides and the ability to wear your titles while they are current and ride your mounts long before anyone else has them.

The heroic raid is the ultimate content for any given patch. If you finish it and fill out your best in slot, you're done. If your whole guild is best in slot, you're best off dropping your sub until new content arrives. Play some other games. There's no need for anything else unless you desperately need the 0.5% to be continually subbed.

This is just my opinion, but i think it is sad that a game like WoW offers almost no progression after you completed main quests, raids, professions, (you get the point), in other words the state MoP is in now.
The only real thing we can keep as a PERMANENT REWARD are the VANITY ITEMS, except a few, (pets, mounts, items, SoO Looms, transmog), meaby gold for some, and this makes me a bit sad that a huge game like WoW has nothing more to offer, and for many these "things" are useless!.

Players put so much effort & grind in acquiring the current "top" items, witch renders almost useless after the current patch/expansion has passed.
Come on Blizz, VANITY ITEMS, srsly?

Edit: I think many voters vote YES on the poll because they have poured so much money in to their mounts & other vanity items. The poll was meant to be targeted at rewards you get in game, not things you buy with real money, sry for not clarifying that in the poll!

but then what would be the point of an expansion, if you just keep everything you already have, then there would be no point in raiding frequently because there's no gear to get. essentially, you're advocating killing the game... good call

This is my take to the things too.
Mention another game that actually have some reward afterwards that is meaningfull, everlasting and doesn't end up making you plain out bored because you have the best even before the expansion hits? >.>

This is my take to the things too.
Mention another game that actually have some reward afterwards that is meaningfull, everlasting and doesn't end up making you plain out bored because you have the best even before the expansion hits? >.>

^This seems to imply that Blizzard should wait till someone does long term progression better than they currently do before even trying.

Why are people so focused on these permanent advantages being along Blizzard's current axis of power progression. If you think more along the lines of things like the vendor mounts/pets or the removal of certain requirements or conditions in other ways, you could probably come up with a few more interesting ideas than simply rejecting anything that isn't currently happening.

Simply browse the various suggestions people make, and consider which of these suggestions would make a better permanent reward rather than a permanent change to the basic game.

I thought the entire idea of an MMO was that it's a really big multiplayer game and you can do big cool things with all your friends.

How do you play an MMO without clawing for the Next Best Piece of Gear? I dunno, maybe you sandbox it up, or you use it as a social platform, or you have fun playing PvP or PvE content. When did MMOs suddenly = GRIND DEM GEARS?

Originally Posted by suitepee7

but then what would be the point of an expansion, if you just keep everything you already have, then there would be no point in raiding frequently because there's no gear to get. essentially, you're advocating killing the game... good call

I dunno maybe an expansion should like. Expand on the game. Other games don't need power progression to expand their gameplay, and MMOs are no exception.

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