I really just don't know what to make of Harvey Pulford. Looking back, putting them in even sounds more fair.

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Originally Posted by Velociraptor

I think Mohns-Carlyle are more even to Gardiner-Plager.

The way I saw it was, the gap between Gardiner and Mohns is a bit larger than the gap between Carlyle and Plager. I'm really not a fan of Carlyle. I see two big offensive seasons, then a couple decent ones, and not much else. An argument for even is certainly a valid one though.

I really just don't know what to make of Harvey Pulford. Looking back, putting them in even sounds more fair.

The way I saw it was, the gap between Gardiner and Mohns is a bit larger than the gap between Carlyle and Plager. I'm really not a fan of Carlyle. I see two big offensive seasons, then a couple decent ones, and not much else. An argument for even is certainly a valid one though.

That's fair, although Carlyle does seem like a one-hit wonder due to his peak, he was actually a pretty complete defenseman. There isn't too much on him, but my bio has some evidence on his game. And just wondering your opinion, what do you think separates Mohns and Gardiner by so much?

That's fair, although Carlyle does seem like a one-hit wonder due to his peak, he was actually a pretty complete defenseman. There isn't too much on him, but my bio has some evidence on his game. And just wondering your opinion, what do you think separates Mohns and Gardiner by so much?

Actually, Carlyle and Gardiner are pretty equal. One great season really carries them both. I'd probably have Carlyle ahead. Mohns is way better than Plager.

Actually, Carlyle and Gardiner are pretty equal. One great season really carries them both. I'd probably have Carlyle ahead. Mohns is way better than Plager.

Herb Gardiner was selected a 2nd Team All Star by the NHL managers in 1927-28, the season after his Hart win. So his second best season is definitely better than Carlyle's second best. I'd take him over either Mohns or Carlyle. Plager's definitely the worst of the bunch, though.

Herb Gardiner was selected a 2nd Team All Star by the NHL managers in 1927-28, the season after his Hart win. So his second best season is definitely better than Carlyle's second best. I'd take him over either Mohns or Carlyle. Plager's definitely the worst of the bunch, though.

Carlyle has some Norris consideration beyond his win too.

I might take Gardiner too, but I think you have to at least see that they're relatively close.

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Originally Posted by markrander87

Haha let's completely ignore all of the pre-NHL seasons Gardiner has had prior to joing Montreal.

Not ignoring them, but they are no more significant than Carlyle's non-Norris seasons. They're probably less significant.

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Also Gardiners "1 year" blows Carlyles out of the water.

I'm not even sure it's better, let alone way better.

An old Hart, which may or may not mean he was the best defenseman, vs. a modern Norris.

seventies, jarek, Sturm, anyone not in the draft, are you willing to answer a PM question I have about advice. I hate asking but I'm really struggling to figure out what I want to do with something....

Look at the top pairings in the roster thread. You can probably find at least 10 D-men there worse than him. This may be caused by chemistry/fit issues in many cases though (I can't otherwise fathom why Suter and Reinhart would be on top pairings...).

Look at the top pairings in the roster thread. You can probably find at least 10 D-men there worse than him. This may be caused by chemistry/fit issues in many cases though (I can't otherwise fathom why Suter and Reinhart would be on top pairings...).

I don't really care what any rosters look like. It doesn't have any bearing on Gardiner's ranking. For him to be called a good #2, he'd have to be among the top-50 defensemen of all time, and he certainly isn't.

Look at the top pairings in the roster thread. You can probably find at least 10 D-men there worse than him. This may be caused by chemistry/fit issues in many cases though (I can't otherwise fathom why Suter and Reinhart would be on top pairings...).

Because teams go for balance instead of stacking up the top two lines and top pair?