Changes to the Collabs section
page 7

you guys do realise that when the collabs came out they had no intention to keep them anyway if they did they would have made sure that any and all bugs were fixed before the collabs launched

That’s an unrealistic statement. If that were true, none of the big software companies would ever have to issue patches or hotfixes. Yet they do, because they all acknowledge that it’s unreasonable to expect zero bugs at launch.

you guys do realise that when the collabs came out they had no intention to keep them anyway if they did they would have made sure that any and all bugs were fixed before the collabs launched

That’s an unrealistic statement. If that were true, none of the big software companies would ever have to issue patches or hotfixes. Yet they do, because they all acknowledge that it’s unreasonable to expect zero bugs at launch.

well duh companies only care about money but they are so greedy they end up losing money that`s why companies always have to fix bugs and shit

you guys do realise that when the collabs came out they had no intention to keep them anyway if they did they would have made sure that any and all bugs were fixed before the collabs launched

That’s an unrealistic statement. If that were true, none of the big software companies would ever have to issue patches or hotfixes. Yet they do, because they all acknowledge that it’s unreasonable to expect zero bugs at launch.

well duh companies only care about money but they are so greedy they end up losing money that`s why companies always have to fix bugs and shit

False. The “fix-bugs-after-launch” concept also applies to free software that generates zero revenue. Just ask any of the developers on Kong who don’t make games for money and have no expectations of reaching the $25 revenue share minimum for a payout.

you guys do realise that when the collabs came out they had no intention to keep them anyway if they did they would have made sure that any and all bugs were fixed before the collabs launched

That’s an unrealistic statement. If that were true, none of the big software companies would ever have to issue patches or hotfixes. Yet they do, because they all acknowledge that it’s unreasonable to expect zero bugs at launch.

well duh companies only care about money but they are so greedy they end up losing money that`s why companies always have to fix bugs and shit

False. The “fix-bugs-after-launch” concept also applies to free software that generates zero revenue. Just ask any of the developers on Kong who don’t make games for money and have no expectations of reaching the $25 revenue share minimum for a payout.

you know what you just drove someone that could have saved the collabs away i hope your happy

you guys do realise that when the collabs came out they had no intention to keep them anyway if they did they would have made sure that any and all bugs were fixed before the collabs launched

That’s an unrealistic statement. If that were true, none of the big software companies would ever have to issue patches or hotfixes. Yet they do, because they all acknowledge that it’s unreasonable to expect zero bugs at launch.

well duh companies only care about money but they are so greedy they end up losing money that`s why companies always have to fix bugs and shit

False. The “fix-bugs-after-launch” concept also applies to free software that generates zero revenue. Just ask any of the developers on Kong who don’t make games for money and have no expectations of reaching the $25 revenue share minimum for a payout.

you know what you just drove someone that could have saved the collabs away i hope your happy

I’m sad to see it go (but I haven’t look at the collabs in a while, so I guess I’m not that sad…), but I’m happy that Kong is still actively changing and evolving to the user’s needs. I was extremely afraid when Kong was bought by GameStop that they would stop caring, but apparently they still pay attention to us! Thank You Kongregate!!!!!!!!!

you guys do realise that when the collabs came out they had no intention to keep them anyway if they did they would have made sure that any and all bugs were fixed before the collabs launched

That’s an unrealistic statement. If that were true, none of the big software companies would ever have to issue patches or hotfixes. Yet they do, because they all acknowledge that it’s unreasonable to expect zero bugs at launch.

well duh companies only care about money but they are so greedy they end up losing money that`s why companies always have to fix bugs and shit

False. The “fix-bugs-after-launch” concept also applies to free software that generates zero revenue. Just ask any of the developers on Kong who don’t make games for money and have no expectations of reaching the $25 revenue share minimum for a payout.

you know what you just drove someone that could have saved the collabs away i hope your happy

It’s kinda sad. Collabs is like one of the best great thing that Kong has, and it’ll be gone in a month.

It’s not that noticed, but heck, gamers uploading art and music in a gaming site is something different. Posting art in an art site is brutal, but being a gamer and posting art in a gaming site is like heaven in some extent, and the music! God! That’s just something you can’t miss out on. Though I have to admit I’m not really putting alot of my time checking this site anymore, but think about it.

Gamers and gamers, sharing things with other gamers, that’s a different approach.

Hey Zappy (and others, but most recently Zapppy), we really understand that it sucks for those people who are invested in the collabs and are part of that community. However, just the fact that it exists doesn’t warrant it sticking around, sadly. If we had a section where you could share and rate recipes, I’m sure some people would use it (I probably would), and people would be sad if we then took it away, but it just wouldn’t fit in with what the site wants to be. While not near as much as an imaginative stretch, the collabs now take on a similar role. Also, the issue isn’t just that few people are using it (although that definitely is an issue). There are fundamental flaws that developed in the section after it was launched and patched a couple of times that will not go away no matter how much traffic we throw at it (actually, they’d likely just get worse) and would instead take serious programming and design resources for us to completely overhaul it. You can read more of my thoughts on the subject in this post.

If you set out to make a cake, but instead end up with pie (dont ask how because you did) do you throw out the pie? You set out to make something that was and still is a hard goal to reach, but you have made a place were artist and musicians can gather and create ideas, create music, create art. You have created something that works, not what you wanted, but it did indeed work. Yet you look at it for what you wanted it to become and not what it has become. From that a few fixes maybe some tabs and you have a new working section. When I first started coming here The collabs was advertised as a place to post art and talk with other artist, not post art and talk to game creators.. If this is the wound you speak of it is self inflected, and you take your revenge on those who enjoy what you have created. There is no logic in what you are doing. I understand is horrible for what you wanted, but every mistake can be turned into an achievement if you push it in a different direction. So try pushing it in another direction. Give it 2 months of advertisement, a quick cleaning and fixs on tabs.. and if its still not to your liking, then you can kill it without me bitching.

Maybe they would get more use if Kong didn’t always try to hide them every chance they got? No art/music on the front page. Nothing really on profiles either. Hell, most other kong users don’t even know that they exist.

Collabs, You Have Served Us Well. We Think That You Have Been Outstandingly Amazing. I Am Not The Only Shocked One To See You Go. I Will Miss You Dearly, As If You Were My Own Brother, Dead On A Stormy Night. I Hope That This Will Be In Great Honer Of How You Served Kongregate And All Of It’s Great Users. I Wish You Could Stay, But I Have No Choice.Very Sad User, Liu Kang.

I personally feel as if this is a great loss to the site, although I understand the reasoning behind it. I often spend time on the collabs, in awe of what some users can do given their imagination and proper tools. I feel that being able to share your own heartfelt creations, no matter whether they are interactive or not, is a great contribution to society in any form it may take. I feel like blaming GameStop for such a loss, but I know that this is unreasonable, childish even. I do hope, however, that people may still be able to express themselves, as the announcement suggested, if not here, then through other sources. I wish the best to all of those whose work is being taken down, as well as to all of those whom their work has inspired. I hope none are daunted, and continue to share their soulful creations with the world.

Maybe if you were to let us have our things on our profiles again, we would actually use it, rather than occasionally thinking of it, but not being able find it BECAUSETHERE IS NO OBVIOUSACCESSPOINT ON THISSITE. >.>

Usage was low. The impression I’ve gotten from talking to an admin and reading some of their posts is that this includes the time prior to the profile changes that lowered arts visibility. Even if a few hundred different voices posted in protest (and really, I don’t even see one hundred), that would make up a fraction of a percent of all the active users. Doubling the traffic doesn’t translate to a significant increase of usage if the existing numbers are low enough.

The section didn’t function as intended, and more traffic actually makes the problem worse – top rated works stay there, and newer stuff melts into obscurity with the masses.

Since the primary intent of the section (discovery of talent/possible collaborators) was flawed by design, it became nothing more than a collection of on-site portfolios. That functionality can be mostly replaced by uploading your work to dedicated arts site and linking to it. There isn’t a whole lot of difference between linking to a Kong page and an external one. Linking to external sites in your profile is allowed, after all. Isn’t your profile where the links to artwork resided in the first place?

By removing the entire section, Kongregate recovers a considerable amount of resources – storage space, bandwidth, human labor – that can be diverted to their primary business.

By nature, anyone who actively used the collabs section would also have socialized with other collabs users. This is why some users seem to feel that there really was a lot of activity – a larger percentage of their Kong contacts are collabs users. If you take into account the hundreds of thousands of other active users who either don’t use the section or are completely oblivious/apathetic toward its existence, that’s actually a small subset. For comparison, take a look at the forums. Only a small fraction of the active accounts actually use the forums. I’d be willing to bet all my kreds that the forum user count still completely outclasses the collabs user count.

I don’t think any amount of angryfacing the admins in this thread will reverse their decision. Just take it for what it is – an inconvenience – and work around it.

I still don’t see this as a good thing… now NG has a 1-up on us.. But like buggerd said, even though it never turned out right, it really did seem to complement Kong.. I realize too that “angryfacing the admins” and such won’t bring back our collabs.. but still.. I don’t want to see them go.

I think the intention of this thread was misunderstood. This thread is an announcement, not an introduction to debate.

Debate is inherent when change happens. Just because we know it’s going to happen doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t acknowledge and validate other users’ concerns about the change. If Kongregate administration was interested in posing a thread solely to debating the changes, they should have opened up a different one or locked this one early on so as to not let it gain traction.

I think the intention of this thread was misunderstood. This thread is an announcement, not an introduction to debate.

Debate is inherent when change happens. Just because we know it’s going to happen doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t acknowledge and validate other users’ concerns about the change. If Kongregate administration was interested in posing a thread solely to debating the changes, they should have opened up a different one or locked this one early on so as to not let it gain traction.

I’m not saying that debate and discussion is bad. If anything, I think it’s a great thing and should be encouraged. But the attempts at trying to sway the administration’s mind (when this has clearly been a decision made for many months) is ill-fated and doomed before they begin.

I think the intention of this thread was misunderstood. This thread is an announcement, not an introduction to debate.

Debate is inherent when change happens. Just because we know it’s going to happen doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t acknowledge and validate other users’ concerns about the change. If Kongregate administration was interested in posing a thread solely to debating the changes, they should have opened up a different one or locked this one early on so as to not let it gain traction.

I’m not saying that debate and discussion is bad. If anything, I think it’s a great thing and should be encouraged. But the attempts at trying to sway the administration’s mind (when this has clearly been a decision made for many months) is ill-fated and doomed before they begin.

Unfortunately, that’s the Catch-22 of making announcements. We’re expected to go along with change, but at the same time the Administration wants feedback. When users do provide it (especially in radical forms such as not making the change at all), it’s considered trying to sway their minds, which, as you said, is doomed to begin with. Understandably there are a vast number of users out there that have the capacity of providing constructive feedback, but it’s so far outweighed by those who are staunchly opposed that those who are genuinely interested becomes smothered.

You want to encourage debate and discussion, but the whole purpose of those is rooted in persuasion. At this point it’s just setting the users that want to be heard up for failure before they begin.

EDIT: I would like to be known I AM in favor of taking down the Collabs sections. As stated in a previous post, I believe there’s a lot of potential that opens up for focus in more game-related sectors.

This makes sense to me. If the feature could be brought back as a more streamlined, integrated feature that is /better/ than newgrounds’, it would be a great feature. As is, it just seems like a sub-par attempt to match newgrounds.

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