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It figures that they wouldn't want to have either Ash or May win over the other. If May beats the seasoned, hardened trainer, it would be unrealistic and people would complain that she was turning into a canon-Sue.

Yes but they had no problem letting Misty beat Ash in the Whirl Cup, even if Misty won by dumb luck. (Psyduck getting a headache...Misty's version of "Super Skitty" or Ice beaming Baby Squirtle)

Well, the entire Whirl Cup was basically one big fat excuse for Kasumi to beat Satoshi in something. I'm glad they didn't do the same with Haruka here, yet I'm disappointed with the interruption. Still, this is probably the saga's best filler so far (though next week's looks to replace that).

Yes but they had no problem letting Misty beat Ash in the Whirl Cup, even if Misty won by dumb luck. (Psyduck getting a headache...Misty's version of "Super Skitty" or Ice beaming Baby Squirtle)

True, but Misty isn't a younger, less experienced trainer, and Ash never mentored her. Her winning a water tournament - her specialty - is much more plausible than May beating Ash in a straightforward battle when he has five seasons' experience on her. Plus, fans are already up in arms over May's supposed lucky breaks allowing her to triumph in contests, not to mention her unfair 'victory' the last time she and Ash fought (not counting the tag-team match in The Bicker The Better).

But they were battling with two experienced fighting Pokemon, thus the odds were a bit even. Ash and May have no real experience ordering the attacks that Hitmonchan/lee use, so it could have been a fair battle. May showed that she battles just fine outside of Contests, so it's not like she only knows contest battling. Therefore we should have gotten a winner.

But they were battling with two experienced fighting Pokemon, thus the odds were a bit even. Ash and May have no real experience ordering the attacks that Hitmonchan/lee use, so it could have been a fair battle. May showed that she battles just fine outside of Contests, so it's not like she only knows contest battling. Therefore we should have gotten a winner.

Well, sure, May might have won, assuming she had a stroke of luck to help her along, a la Misty and Psyduck in the Whirl Cup (I really don't think that she could win against Ash on pure skill. He is an excellent battler). But what I'm talking about is how the audience would have reacted to a victory for May. Consider how berserk everyone went over her beating Harley, who she has never lost to before - how are they likely to respond if she beats Ash, who is practically her teacher? We'd be up to our eyeballs in people saying the battle was cheap and May keeps getting handed things on a platter without having to work for them.

Well, sure, May might have won, assuming she had a stroke of luck to help her along, a la Misty and Psyduck in the Whirl Cup (I really don't think that she could win against Ash on pure skill. He is an excellent battler). But what I'm talking about is how the audience would have reacted to a victory for May. Consider how berserk everyone went over her beating Harley, who she has never lost to before - how are they likely to respond if she beats Ash, who is practically her teacher? We'd be up to our eyeballs in people saying the battle was cheap and May keeps getting handed things on a platter without having to work for them.

Face facts, whatever happens in the shows and whoever ends up winning a battle... people will complain, it's impossible to satisfy everyone.

Yeees, but it's a reason why the writers might choose to refrain from having Ash or May conclusively beat the other. The closest they seem willing to come is Torchic's non-win against Taillow, which was merely a comic-relief battle that Ash only 'lost' because the townspeople were ridiculously biased (and because Torchic has bad aim ).

Easiest thing in the world to do: Have the Pokemon knock each other out at the same, making it a draw. It's an obvious set up, but it fulfills its duty, and I'd have it come down to that than another obnoxious TR deus ex machina. Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan were even using the same attacks! How perfect was that?

Easiest thing in the world to do: Have the Pokemon knock each other out at the same, making it a draw. It's an obvious set up, but it fulfills its duty, and I'd have it come down to that than another obnoxious TR deus ex machina. Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan were even using the same attacks! How perfect was that?

Having the pokemon knock each other out wouldn't have left room for hitmontop to get its little bit of screen time...

Well, if the Pokemon knock each other out, then that would suggest that Ash and May are exactly evenly matched, and their skills are equal. Whereas if the match is interrupted, then we don't know who's stronger; we can speculate that either one would have won had the battle continued. To be honest, I think the writers used the TR cop-out because they knew that, realistically, May shouldn't be able to beat Ash or even tie with him, yet they also didn't want him to beat her out of concern that it'd look sexist or, errrr, anti-co-ordinator of them.

I think it's a bit unlikely to assume that Ash and May will never finish a battle together. They're bound to make more episodes featuring their two main characters battling again, and they can't keep using the TR cop out every single time.

what is it with me and the seiyuu, Kishio Daisuke? As I was watching the Absol episode, I was left with the impression that Satoru sounded familiar. So, I tried looking up his seiyuu (Kishio), and the only match I got, that's a character I heard before at least, is Van from Zoids, whom I only heard in one short clip that I downloaded off the late Anime Intro Archive. I watched this episode, got the same impression with Kyoutarou, tried looking up his seiyuu, and.... I ended up with Kishio Daisuke again. Either I heard this guy before (in something longer than a clip anyway), but the character he played isn't being listed anywhere, or I'm really letting my obsession with the kicka**, tough guy anime voices get to my head.

Anyway, like everyone else said, I think it was a shame how the battle was a cop-out, and I couldn't agree more with V Faction on how two Pokemon, seemingly with equal amounts of damaging and charging in to use the same attack, was the perfect set-up for a double KO. Although, on the plus-side of the battle.... I actually enjoyed the use of CG this time around. It was interesting watching Kapoera tear through Rocket Dan's mech, watching every little screw fly out in the process.

BTW, did anyone besides me love that little bit where Ebiwaler was about to deliver a finishing blow at an insane speed, and in the midst of it, we see Satoshi mouthing a command to Sawamular before it knees Ebiwaler in the face? Man, that was sweet. Sadly, I think the dub-viewers will miss out, what with 4kids and their anti-silence and all.

Last edited by Yamato-san; 1st October 2005 at 7:54 AM.

Yup, classes again. I'm gonna be at this for a while.

I translate for #Pocketmonsters (just because I know Japanese does not make me Japanese, stop PMing me).

Another dssapiontment, :/ saw the episode pics mhh no good.is it me or is this season going to be nothing but fillers?Though at least there was no "giovonni fantisy(s/p?)"the determination fire in May`s eyes made me crack a smile,but did rocket-dan have to ruin the battle?though the CG was equisite but still it could of been better well hopefully the next episode will be a better filler.

In think they also don't want to compare the Hitmons. Whenever alternate evolutions have battled (which is quite rarely), it gbets interrupted so that one won't be favoured over another by fans (especially snce only one can be obtained in each game). Maybe that's another reason why starter battles are avoided nowadays.

Getting to see Hariyama and Breloom was cool.
Hitmontop rocks! I love that it saved the day!
Awesome CG! Like the giant fist.
And japanese looking soup bowl robot! Has japanese culture slowly started to return. They sure have been going to a alot of japanese style restaraunts lately.

This episode was fun to watch, actually. Funny CotDs, superb animation and an interesting plot.
But...although I thought that their mecha was adorable, TR themselves were absolutely annoying, I just hated them this time. The same motto animation has been used repeatedly by now, the scenes before that were supposed to be funny or something (being squashed by Hariyama, etc.) weren't funny at all...blah. It's times like this that make me wish TR wasn't in every single episode.

And I felt sorry for Brock. This time they even made him being ignored on purpose. Wow. Er, yeah, poor Brock.

Well, as I said, the animation was great, but sometimes Ash's face and legs just looked screwed up. Either they looked way too short or just...strange O_o Ahem..Whatever.

The battle was great, but once again, I have complaints, even without looking at the 'result' *sends TR to hell*.
What I found annoying was that everyone kept commenting and saying unneeded stuff, which made it look like this somehow: Hitmonchan attacks -> Pause, with Brock/Max/Kyoutaro/Hamaguri (?) saying something -> Hitmonlee attacks -> Everyone is talking again, blah blah blah ...and so on.

I don't mind them shouting something quickly and the battle resumes immediately after that, but this time they kept interrupting the whole time..Yeah, perhaps it's always like that, but this time it was more noticeable than ever, at least to me. I just don't like it.

In think they also don't want to compare the Hitmons. Whenever alternate evolutions have battled (which is quite rarely), it gbets interrupted so that one won't be favoured over another by fans (especially snce only one can be obtained in each game). Maybe that's another reason why starter battles are avoided nowadays.

uh huh..... try saying that to Nyorotono and Nyorobon. Also, though it may not be the exact same thing (but it's pretty similar), the anime keeps having these damned "pre-evolution versus evolution" conflicts. Sometimes these conflicts are pulled off pretty alright, like Satoshi's Kimori vs. Natch's Juptor, but usually, they seem like the writers will intentionally go out of their way to make evolution look like a bad thing, like evolved Pokemon are always the evil antagonists (friggin.... hate..... Eievui brothers episode.... and Azumaou fishing contest episode..... I'll go easy on Pikachu vs. Raichu since Pikachu's the mascot and that was kind of a critical point in the series where it showed it didn't want to evolve but still wished to prove itself. It also seemed like the first evolution conflict the series ever had, obviously before it got a bit redundant).

[cough] sorry, went a bit off-topic there. But point is, it doesn't seem as though the writers are always trying to appeal fans of both Pokemon in certain species rivalries, especially not during the Jouto saga when they're trying to wh*re out the new batch of Pokemon by making them seem big and powerful (and of course, they executed it all wrong, only having them perform in a few very forgettable episodes).

Last edited by Yamato-san; 1st October 2005 at 9:58 PM.

Yup, classes again. I'm gonna be at this for a while.

I translate for #Pocketmonsters (just because I know Japanese does not make me Japanese, stop PMing me).

Originally posted by Sweet_May
the episode was a bit awesome....... Ash and May's battle was great but no winner....... XP
but for a sec there, i thought May was gonna win
if i were to rate it, i'd give it a 7/10

Oh, please. I doubt she would win because Hitmonlee has the upper hand(or leg) because, if this was put in a realistic veiw, Hitmonlee's legs are longer(which is natural, even in humans) than Hitmonchan's arms, thus giving Hitmonlee the ability to kick Hitmonchan as he is performing a close-range attack. Plus, Ash has been in 5 seasons and he SHOULD be better than May because he has more experience. Just because she got an uber Squirtle and a crazy Skitty with powerful attacks doesn't mean that she would be good at battling. Having DREW beat MAY is sexist, but Ash beating May is techicnally not sexist because he has more experience.