If democrats would just take care of this problem...if democrats would just cut the "none-working" income to even $1 per year below the working family income....if they would just do this common sense action...there woudn't even be a Republican party.

But they won't. The 60 million working folks that voted Republican have no choice but to continue supporting the Republicans...because the democrats are radical when it comes to giving too much money to those who won't work.

Yeah, we have a revenue problem, the vampires don't have enough blood. Like they would suddenly become sane if we slaked their insaciable appitite! How soon is an aspiring Edward Gibbon going to have a new rise and fall to write about? The idiots that worried more about where Romney's trust invested than the fourteen percent of the workforce begging for a job deserve what they will get.

It would be interesting if the Economist could provide a multi-year comparison between the fiscal cliff and Simpson Bowles.
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Like how do the two austerity measures compare in the first year, and then the second year, and so on, until we get to 10 years?
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Otherwise, why not immediately get rid of some loopholes like the broad definition of carried interest (make it only your money at risk), or the cap on income taxed for social security? Why not create a new tax bracket for people with $500,000 in income and up and edge up the rate abit? Why not raise the rate for long term capital gains to 20%, and extend it to having to hold onto an instrument for two or three years?
Just some thoughts. None of this is too hard if one really believes there is a debt problem....

The CBO estimates the "fiscal cliff" will pull 500 billion out of the economy, cut GDP by 4%, and raise unemployment by around 1% (somewhere around 2 million jobs). That will most likely push the economy further into recession. On the other hand, it will cut the deficit by $560 billion, and enact taxes and spending cuts worth 7 trillion over the next decade.

It's supposed to be unpalatable, but other nations are asked to go through austerity when their spending is out of control and I'm starting to think that America should be required to do the same.

America just needs to stay out of danger of defaulting, while maximizing economic growth. Revenues naturally increase with a healthy economy. Cutting for the sake of cutting, especially during a recession, is insane.

Now, please unite the Divided States of America. Alas, the political system in this country makes it impossible to make the decisions needed (raise tax revenue and cut spending). Hopefully a moderate majority, consisting of Democrats and Republicans can break the gridlock.

Now, please unite the Divided States of America. Alas, the political system in this country makes it impossible to make the decisions needed. Hopefully a moderate majority, consisting of Democrats and Republicans can break the gridlock. Hello ... are there any moderates out there ? (echo, echo)

Maybe Obamney could become real by President Obama offering Mitt Romney the cabinet post of business Czar, so he would have someone to supplement his lack of private sector experience. That would be "Hope and Change" that we could readily believe in!!!

In addition to capping deductions, why not make the mortgage deduction progressive (and cap it at say 400K). This would not have massive negative short term impact on either the middle class or the aggregate value of the vast real estate holdings by US citizens (both personal and through the government ownership of 'toxic assets'), but could still be a stepping stone to the long term elimination of said deduction.

At the same time, I would seriously try to negotiate a deal to eliminate corporate taxes (which are 'gamed' by large corporations in a way that penalizes smaller businesses) that would involve a trade-off with a larger top income tax rate and the elimination of preferential treatment for capital gains.

Taxes paid by the so-called 'rich' 10% in the U.S. account for 50% of all income taxes paid. The top 50% of the taxpayers pay 95% of all income taxes paid. The bottom 50% of the 'employed pay little or nothing...

We will have an immediate recession, but the medium and long-term benefits of a more balanced budget will far outweigh the current situation where the top 1% currently pay the lowest tax rates of the past 80 years and the GOP seems determined to sacrifice the well-being of the remaining 99%.

The "fiscal cliff" is about a quarter of the current difference between what we collect in income taxes and what we need to fund current spending plus the first of twenty years principle reductions on $16.2 trillion public debt; i.e, $1.8 trillion, 11.7 percent of GDP. This is our true fiscal or budget gap. But we should take heart because there's unanimous agreement that someone else, not me, should have to pay it.

you might be thinking in british pounds. 250,000 USD/year sounds like a lot but it isn't. the ammount of americans that would get hit with that does not a good policy make. i would say 500,000-600,000 would be a better lower bound.

The higher tax rate applies only to the amount made above 250,000.
The typical household earning $250,000-500,000 pays on average 25% income tax.
Increasing the tax rate to 39% for the amount over 250,000 means
the average for a household earning $500,000 goes up to 27%, less than 10% more in taxes (or an extra $10,000). Hardly a hardship.
It is true that $250,000/year is not a luxurious amount if you want to live in Manhattan but the increase to 39% will not force you to move elsewhere if you don't want to.

You mean to say that somebody in business who has an income of $500,000/year will suffer great hardship because his rate went from 25% to 27%? This is beyond laughable. Mom and pop operations actually tend to earn less than that, so their taxes will barely budge. I know many "small" business people, their future plans are not at all affected by this issue. Whether they hire more people depends on demand, not on how much they earn.

In a small business, decisions are based mostly on cash flow. If there is demand, you might want to hire more people, but you can only actually do so if you have cash available.

As you say, the rate going from 25% to 27% probably doesn't really hurt anyone, but it doesn't really reduce the deficit either. It would be better if they would stop arguing about things that don't really mater and instead focus on something that would make a difference.

The argument about increasing the taxes will cause small business to hire fewer people never made any sense to me. The entire expense of a new employee is deducted from the owner's income, and not taxed. The macro-economic view for not hiring people because demand will go down makes sense, as well as reducing incentives to invest in capital because of a reduced effective return on the capital. But not the direct hiring impact. But that may not make as good of a sound bite, as it requires an educated population who understand economics.

The so-called DEBT, and the manufactured Panic surrounding it is nothing but a pure contrivance. Like almost all other nonsense, this confabulated "issue" is broadly bandied around by the corporate shills is nothing but a colossal SCAM; It is nothing more than a RUSE, a TOOL used specifically by the Republicans to distract, confuse and stupefy people.

The FACT is that the monied Power Elite have been intentionally Bilking everyone down the line, by way of a massive Scheme to Defraud; and ruthlessly Plundering (i.e. extraction by Theft) all the world's natural resources; and indeed Hoarding ALL Hard Currency (MONEY), ALL Other Assets, along with significant natural resources.

The Robber Barons, the monied Rulers, do POSSESS, ALL to themselves, approximately 46 Trillion U.S. Dollars that they've secretively stashed away in various TAX-FREE HAVENS. The so-called DEBT, any "shortages," are a direct result of HOARDING. Period. The Criminal-Tyrants have indeed been actively absconding all WEALTH, including U.S. citizens' Tax Dollars, for themselves.

In FACT, The entire financial system, Wall Street, the Banks, the Corporate Governors, and the entire Kleptocratic U.S. Government, is built on FRAUD; and THAT Scheme has been deliberately engineered by the tiny Ruling Class, i.e. the Robber Barons, the Tycoons, The Trillionaires.

These unconscionable power-mongers, specifically but not limited to the Republican Party, only seek to continue the totally disastrous, utterly ruinous policies of more Deregulation of ALL industry; The Thoroughly corrupt Privatization of all previously PUBLIC sectors; And the rest of the world can just simply DIE OFF. They don't care A WIT.

By the way, the newly-coined term "ENTITLEMENTS," are NOT "Entitlements." That is a contrived term used only just recently and nowadays to make the very programs that all U.S. citizens have PAID into for YEARS, look and seem like undeserved WELFARE. It is NOT: The FACT is that the multitudes of U.S. citizens who have diligently paid their taxes, have paid into Social Security and Medicare, for many long years, indeed deserve what they've already paid for all of their wretched lives.

So, if these government hacks want to bring up the debt, the very debt that they themselves created through their own thoroughly failed and still- failing policies over the last four decades, I propose a referendum vote:

Retract entirely and completely, every health care benefit that government HUMPS get on OUR, the TAXPAYERS, BACKS. Everyone, every last one of them, is to be included: the entire Congress, i.e. the House and Senate for those of you who know NOTHING; each and every department; Every filthy parasite that clings to the government teat, all on OUR, the Taxpayers', BACKS.

And then, they would all have to do just as WE DO: That is, to buy flagrantly inflated, anti-American, for-Profit Health Care "Insurance" i.e. ONE OF THE BIGGEST SCAMS IN HISTORY. Oh, and just as soon as one of these worse-than-useless HUMPS gets sick and needs health care, let the Insurance company CEO DENY COVERAGE and unceremoniously PULL THE PLUG.

As to AUSTERITY MEASURES, let's CUT OUT every single one of their obscene benefits, that we the Taxpayers pay for: their secret service, their limousines, and LET'S CUT THEIR SALARIES by 100%. And if they can't afford to live high on the hog, all off of OUR tax-payer dollars, Let them ROT on SKID ROW where they TRULY belong; And let THEM apply for "ENTITLEMENTS"--Only to be DENIED.

If what you say here about entitlements were true, there would be no disagreement. The facts are that the 'trust funds' that these programs were based on and which the people paid into were 'accreted' (stolen) into the general fund back in the 1970's. The money was then used for 'other things" and only acknowledged by token I.O.Us. There is presently no 'trust' and no 'fund'.

I assume by "Robber Barons" and "Criminal Tyrants" you are referring to Congress...

Congress, yes, in cahoots and as willing quislings for their corporate whoremasters.

"The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage."

So, based on that statement, I will argue that economics is an elaborate illusion and, yes indeed, merely "politics in disguise."

Economic Policies and Politics
The entire slave-based economy is, in FACT, the political structure itself. Indeed the entire economy of the world has been and still is deliberately engineered by the very few white men in and of the WHITE POWER STRUCTURE. These very few shadowy figures, today and hereon known as the Trillionaires, have been from the very inception of controlled human societies and communities, it is THOSE people who have been and still are pulling ALL THE STRINGS of the mere Puppets in this OSTENSIBLE government (Look Up "Ostensible").

So these WHITE MEN who themselves comprise the WHITE POWER STRUCTURE, or the Robber Barons, have succeeded for some time to fairly kept a pretty tight lid on too much knowledge, learning, awareness, fact-based truth, since learning and discovering actual FACTS would, of course, lead to bitter protest and violent revolt, and maybe even their own DEMISE.

This deliberate suppression of knowledge and awareness of facts has been CERTAINLY BEEN SUCCESSFUL.; And it was, and still is today, accomplished mainly through the veritable tool of religion. Period. Ignorance is the ABSOLUTE KEY in mind control; That and keeping people in FEAR; The outright lies which are found throughout ANY religion, serve as a vehicle for virulent, abject hatred; And a hefty and steady stream of abject fear (of God, of Black people, of Hell, of Satan, Socialism, Fascism, on and on) The political hacks, in this scheme, have found that the employ of so-called buzz words is stunningly EFFECTIVE. IT DISTRACTS PEOPLE; Keeps them dumb, too.

And there is a veritable myriad of other totally intentional distractions, deliberately designed to hide FACTS, i.e. the ACTUAL TRUTH (SLAVERY, THEFT, PLUNDER) Distractions on any and every contrived "side" of the political spectrum; the entire "Left"-"Right" paradigm also a very useful and effective contrivance; So-called "Issues;" Also totally Contrived to distract the populace away from FACTS, TRUTH. That is, distract the fools Away from what the Robber Barons are actually doing (STEALING, PLUNDERING); Let them bicker and argue about such issues as Abortion, gun rights, etc., etc. All and every technique is used; All are forms of intentional trickery. Religion, though, has worked like a charm since the day it was invented and written down (BY MEN), and Religion is still, bar none, the most highly effective tool for mind control today. Well, there WAS the period in history known as the Age of Reason, the Enlightenment, Well, We all know about that history, don't we? CRUSHED IMMEDIATELY and THOROUGHLY BY (GUESS WHO); Replaced with RELIGION, NEVER TO SURFACE Widely AGAIN.

So, skipping straight to the late 20th century, the 1980′s specifically, the emergence of the despicable demon, Ronald Reagan, his total embracing of the R-wing “Christian” Fundamentalist-lunatics; the beginnings of the Total DEREGULATION of ALL industry; the utterly Fantastic LIE of ”trickle-down” economics; And the new “service” economy (SLAVE); All worked hand in hand to set the new and more all-encompassing SLAVERY (Yes, that means ALL OF US) and the Modern slave-based economy.

And every [Puppet] Administration after that old bastard Reagan--Democrat, Republican--they are ALL IN IT TOGETHER--every government tool of the WHITE POWER STRUCTURE Did follow, in lock-step, the ongoing and now thorough DEREGULATION of every single industry and the Privatization of ALL previously public sectors.

Clinton, of course, was among the most destructive of these twisted, perverted white men, as he is the one that repealed the Glass-Stegal Act that had been put into place by FDR after the Great Depression of the 1930s. Clinton did it, knowing very well the history and the certain ramifications [of giving a gigantic idiot-child a machine gun, i.e. DEREGULATION]; So, doing it anyway for his billionaire buddies in the Banks and on Wall Street; That, along with the passing of the Graham-Leech Bill, took away any and all restraints, i.e. REGULATIONS, from the banking industry and the financial sector..

So, look around NOW. They tanked the economy deliberately; They want, for lack of a better term, Zombie-Slaves that won’t think or even ask why: (IDIOT-AMERICA). And they've sure GOT them and they've got them by the BOAT LOAD.

Republicans have to decide. Are they the party of smaller government or the party of 1%? If it's smaller government, that principle must apply across the board, including defence cuts. Or they can keep fighting to avoid the tax system becoming more progressive to save their 1% backers.

There is little talk about corporate investments, how can this become the issue to drive US into recession? Just taxing $250k earners a bit more and here comes the recession? Wow that is a load of crap that the 1% think of themselves.

There is little talk about cutback in entitlement programs as well, and why not?