I can accept if farmers need them, but why can't hunters have their guns at the local police station, for the guns to be checked in and out? There's absolutely no reason for anyone to own an assault rifle, absolutely no reason whatsoever. If people enjoy it as a hobby then maybe they should join or start a clay pigeon shooting group instead of slaughtering animals 'for fun'.

Considering you can't ban people, guns is the obvious suggestion. 'Right to own a firearm', sounds as prehistoric as 'right to own a slave'.

After he was robbed, he started carrying his 9mm...and like he says, he isn't looking for trouble...but he is ready in case it comes looking for him. Hopefully this is enough testimony for blighty as to why most people (other than criminals) own guns

I'm sure most farmers wouldn't want their livestock to be picked off by foxes. Why would you be so against someone handling your gun?

Sure it's very difficult/near impossible to stop nutjobs and people with mental disorders, but why wouldn't people want a level of gun control that is similar to that in the UK or around Europe? If the US adopted similar measures then it could save thousands of lives. What's so bad about that.

I really don't understand the machismo that surrounds guns. It has one purpose and that's to kill.

Also, I saw your comments about video games. You do realise that the video games you play, the music you listen to and the movies you watch aren't exclusive to America?

A rule of thumb in the US farmers till the earth, raise crops. Occasionally raise chickens and pigs.

Ranchers raise livestock, pigs, cows horses.

The firearms real purpose is to defend property. Or to take property (wars). The sport part is just to get better at the former.

Actually I believe that the only reason the government has not done more to infringe rights of its citizens are all of us that own guns.

BTW blighty the average response time for a home invasion for a 911 call to the police is 27 minutes. The response time from my Glock is slightly more than the speed light.

I sleep with Mr Casul....comforting....my family is safe and will remain so. 911 is too far away. And yes, I do have a safe where everything is kept except for Big Nasty...lol.....never leave home without it.

Americans are culturally different than Europeans, and that extends to our attitude towards government. We became a country through drastically different means than cheery ole Albion, and the concepts of self-determination and negative liberty play a large role in our gun laws. The individual conscience is not trifled with, and you can see that borne out in our speech laws as well as our gun laws. We don't ban 'hate speech' like some European countries do, for instance, and we think people have a right to rely on themselves for protection.

Gun control also has a racist background, so it's interesting you equated slavery with possession of a firearm.

"Iíll give up my gun when everybody else doesÖif there were guns here, would you want to be the only one without one?...Itís legal in the United States. The right to bear arms is because thatís the last form of defense against tyranny, not to hunt. Itís to protect yourself from the police.Ē

The first part of Ice-T's quote is hard to fault. Cleaning up guns in America would be an impossible task. We have problems in the UK with knife crime, albeit not on the same scale of gun crime and sure there is gun crime here too.

Maybe it's time for politics and conscience to move on. It's 2012.

Out of interest, those who have firearms, what are you 'packing'? handguns, rifles, shotguns?

Interesting how they were all over the high powered rifle, that he didn't even use? Sounds like he used handguns. So all this talk over a high powered assault weapons ban wouldnt even touch this incident.

The first part of Ice-T's quote is hard to fault. Cleaning up guns in America would be an impossible task. We have problems in the UK with knife crime, albeit not on the same scale of gun crime and sure there is gun crime here too.

Maybe it's time for politics and conscience to move on. It's 2012.

Out of interest, those who have firearms, what are you 'packing'? handguns, rifles, shotguns?

lulz, I disagree there. the primacy of the individual conscience is as close as you can come to everlasting truth for me, and "moving on" from that is a profound regression. it's also how terrible **** happens. there's a reason the Swiss mandate gun ownership.

I personally don't own a gun, but I plan on doing so someday when I have a family. I live in Texas and people generally assume I have one anyway.

The first part of Ice-T's quote is hard to fault. Cleaning up guns in America would be an impossible task. We have problems in the UK with knife crime, albeit not on the same scale of gun crime and sure there is gun crime here too.

Maybe it's time for politics and conscience to move on. It's 2012.

Out of interest, those who have firearms, what are you 'packing'? handguns, rifles, shotguns?

I'm sure most farmers wouldn't want their livestock to be picked off by foxes. Why would you be so against someone handling your gun?

Sure it's very difficult/near impossible to stop nutjobs and people with mental disorders, but why wouldn't people want a level of gun control that is similar to that in the UK or around Europe? If the US adopted similar measures then it could save thousands of lives. What's so bad about that.

I really don't understand the machismo that surrounds guns. It has one purpose and that's to kill.

Also, I saw your comments about video games. You do realise that the video games you play, the music you listen to and the movies you watch aren't exclusive to America?

That is a very good posts blighty. I think the guns at the police station is a great idea. In fact, once the criminals find out they need to leave their guns at the police station, they won't be able to rob you. I mean every criminal is a law abiding citizen and will do what the law says. No fear of protection. Police are there for you at every turn and now criminals don't have guns with their law abiding change in their criminal policy.

lulz, I disagree there. the primacy of the individual conscience is as close as you can come to everlasting truth for me, and "moving on" from that is a profound regression. it's also how terrible **** happens. there's a reason the Swiss mandate gun ownership.

I personally don't own a gun, but I plan on doing so someday when I have a family. I live in Texas and people generally assume I have one anyway.

I agree, individuality and our freedom to define norms is perfectly fine (within limits of course). I'm not calling for a big brother state. I really don't see what's so crazy about wanting to eradicate guns and gun ownership.

That is a very good posts blighty. I think the guns at the police station is a great idea. In fact, once the criminals find out they need to leave their guns at the police station, they won't be able to rob you. I mean every criminal is a law abiding citizen and will do what the law says. No fear of protection. Police are there for you at every turn and now criminals don't have guns with their law abiding change in their criminal policy.

I'm talking about non-handguns. Rifles, shotguns, whatever, for people who have them for 'sport'.

I agree, individuality and our freedom to define norms is perfectly fine (within limits of course). I'm not calling for a big brother state. I really don't see what's so crazy about wanting to eradicate guns and gun ownership.

Dr Broncenstein: I can understand the stance that people have about protecting themselves, but why do you have so many? I'd fancy myself more with a single gun than coming out duel-wielding rifles.

Because I can. I have a rifle collection spanning .22 to .338 win mag. Each has their purpose, depending on what I intend to shoot. A rifle in general wouldnt be my first choice for defence, but certainly would suffice. My 12ga pump shotgun is for defense of my family and home.

The first part of Ice-T's quote is hard to fault. Cleaning up guns in America would be an impossible task. We have problems in the UK with knife crime, albeit not on the same scale of gun crime and sure there is gun crime here too.

Maybe it's time for politics and conscience to move on. It's 2012.

Out of interest, those who have firearms, what are you 'packing'? handguns, rifles, shotguns?

lulz, I disagree there. the primacy of the individual conscience is as close as you can come to everlasting truth for me, and "moving on" from that is a profound regression. it's also how terrible **** happens. there's a reason the Swiss mandate gun ownership.

I personally don't own a gun, but I plan on doing so someday when I have a family. I live in Texas and people generally assume I have one anyway.

I agree, individuality and our freedom to define norms is perfectly fine (within limits of course). I'm not calling for a big brother state. I really don't see what's so crazy about wanting to eradicate guns and gun ownership.

Dr Broncenstein: I can understand the stance that people have about protecting themselves, but why do you have so many? I'd fancy myself more with a single gun than coming out duel-wielding rifles.

don't really see how that's a red herring in the least. basically the article recapitulates my point about Swiss gun ownership and then speculates about how it might change. I actually quite agree with a point brought up earlier in this thread about mandatory conscription in the military for a short time, if only to learn about how to handle and maintain a weapon. I also think society could benefit from GTFOff facebook and instagram for awhile and maybe (temporarily) getting bossed around a bit. whatever, that's the Swiss's prerogative, but I'd personally be wary. human beings don't change, and we're only a few decades removed from one of the darkest periods in human history. a hop, skip, and jump away geographically, too.

don't really see how that's a red herring in the least. basically the article recapitulates my point about Swiss gun ownership and then speculates about how it might change. I actually quite agree with a point brought up earlier in this thread about mandatory conscription in the military for a short time, if only to learn about how to handle and maintain a weapon. I also think society could benefit from GTFOff facebook and instagram for awhile and maybe (temporarily) getting bossed around a bit. whatever, that's the Swiss's prerogative, but I'd personally be wary. human beings don't change, and we're only a few decades removed from one of the darkest periods in human history. a hop, skip, and jump away geographically, too.

The redeeming feature about military service is that it can teach people discipline, not about handling and maintaining weapons. I like the idea of people being able to take away what they've learnt and applying it to their life. Valuable life skills although it would be better if other avenues could be explored which weren't focused around promoting the use of the military.

I disagree. Humans do change although we'll always have the same animal instincts.

The redeeming feature about military service is that it can teach people discipline, not about handling and maintaining weapons. I like the idea of people being able to take away what they've learnt and applying it to their life. Valuable life skills although it would be better if other avenues could be explored which weren't focused around promoting the use of the military.

I disagree. Humans do change although we'll always have the same animal instincts.

Individual human beings change, but that's the point of life. The human race itself does no such thing, and methinks it's dangerous to assume so.

And I agree, military people are consistently amongst the highest quality I come across in society.

The Brits aren't reflecting on another school shooting and mourning the death of 20 kids, I'm sure they're perfectly content.

It's too late to ban guns, there are too many in circulation.

Content? Definitely not. Understandably people aren't as affected as they were with Dunblane and Hungerford, but people here are following what's happened at Sandy Hook quite closely and no doubt people will care a lot more tomorrow as one of the victims was British (breaking news here as of 5 minutes ago).

The British public aren't oblivious to what goes on everyday in America, we do hear about your news and we are sadden. Regardless of what country it happened in, it's sad and ultimately a lot sadder as we know it's going to happen again and again yet nothing will happen due to despicable policies.

I don't want you all to think I'm attacking you for being Americans and what goes on in your country. I'm a person who just so happened to be born in London.