As a fan of both the Sega Dreamcast and the Sega Saturn, one thing I have noticed is that the Sega Saturn has always had the better library in terms of the Platformers/JRPGS, where everything else was equal, or the Sega Dreamcast case had better sports games. So for your guys opinion on the forms am I accurate on this thing with both console library please respond?

Stalvern wrote:Sounds about right, although the Dreamcast was no slouch itself when it came to JRPGs.

True, the Sega Dreamcast console was no slouch when it came to getting quality JRPGs/Platformers it just that the Sega Saturn had way more/better quality JRPGs/Platformers by comparison.

I mean according to Sega Retro the Sega Saturn did get more JRPG games compared to Sega Dreamcast: http://segaretro.org/Category:Saturn_RPGs and http://segaretro.org/Category:Dreamcast_RPGs. Sega Saturn had over 70 JRPGS where Sega Dreamcast had over 40 JRPGS that is quit a difference. I think the one thing that gave the Sega Saturn a huge edge in the JRPG department was Working Designs support, in which the Sega Dreamcast had zero support from the company which was surprising considering that Working Designs was very close with Sega in the first place. Also the 1st party Sega exclusives US releases such as Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force III, The Legend of Oasis, Shining the Holy Ark, Dark Savior are probably much better then the vast majority of Sega Dreamcast JRPG in terms of quality.

Also Stalvern, would you agree that the Sega Saturn had a better Platformer library with the following games/series the Sega Saturn got compared to the Sega Dreamcast for both exclusive and multi-platform games. I could give a list but it would be too many as the Sega Saturn as far as platformers go is much better then the Sega Dreamcast in both quality and quantity?

For 3D platform games, the Dreamcast wins hands-down. Sonic Adventure, Jet Grind Radio, Rayman 2, and Soul Reaver against... Croc? Bug? No contest. For 2D platform games, I can't even think of anything on the Dreamcast that isn't homebrew, while the Saturn has a port of Symphony of the Night, so the Saturn wins in this category pretty much by default. Overall, the question of which system has a better library of platform games comes down to which type of platform game you prefer, since they have almost no common ground.

Well, the Saturn is better for RPGs almost by default. To my recollection, the Dreamcast only had two good RPGs: Skies of Arcadia and Grandia II. (You provided a list from Sega Retro with 40 titles, but the vast majority shouldn't be classified as RPGs.. there were far fewer.) Thanks to Squaresoft, JRPGs were a booming genre in the last '90s and early 2000s, and the Dreamcast's lack of RPGs was a huge reason it couldn't steal gamers from Sony. It really hurt the system and was one of its weakest points. The Saturn, on the other hand, has a decent line-up of RPGs, including my all time favorite - Panzer Dragoon Saga.

I agree with Stalvern about platformers- Saturn for 2D, Dreamcast for 3D. Sports games is easy - the 2K series on the Dreamcast revolutionized sports video games, so that's an easy win. The Saturn's sports games aren't much to write home about anyway.

Now, the fighting genre is one where you might be able to get a legitimate debate going. Both had a pretty decent line-up, if I recall correctly. I'm not a fighting game fan, so I've got no real opinion on which was objectively better. For me personally, I'd take the Dreamcast if for no other reason than the Power Stone series, which is great for casual fighting game fans like me.

Stalvern wrote:For 3D platform games, the Dreamcast wins hands-down. Sonic Adventure, Jet Grind Radio, Rayman 2, and Soul Reaver against... Croc? Bug? No contest. For 2D platform games, I can't even think of anything on the Dreamcast that isn't homebrew, while the Saturn has a port of Symphony of the Night, so the Saturn wins in this category pretty much by default. Overall, the question of which system has a better library of platform games comes down to which type of platform game you prefer, since they have almost no common ground.

Also the Sega Saturn in terms of 2D platformers had Mega Man with X3 in Japan/Europe and X4 and 8, Metal Slug with the first game, and Earthworm Jim with the second game along with Castlevania where the Sega Dreamcast had nothing from those franchises. I do think the Sega Saturn exclusive platformers such as Nights into Dreams/Christmas Nights (long time exclusive at the time period), Clockwork Knight series, Astal, Mr Bones (it has platforming sections so it does count.), Assault Suit Leynos 2 (JP only Sequel to Cybernator released only in Japan), Burning Rangers, Keio Flying Squadron 2(Japan/Europe only Sequel to the original game from Sega CD that is more of a platformer with SHUMP segments), Ninpen Manmaru ( on of the few decent 3D platformer exclusive from Square Enix through the Enix side of things BTW), Shinobi Legions, Shinrei Jusatsushi Taroumaru (JP only), SteamGear Mash (JP Only), Tryrush Deppy (JP only), Super Tempo (JP only Sequel to Tempo from the Sega 32X/Tempo Jr. on the Sega Game Gear). If you combine all that with the multi platform titles/superior versions/compilations, etc for the system you have way more choices/way more higher quality games in the genre compared to the Sega Dreamcast as some of the platformers where kid shovelware license games ports from the PS1/N64, or the poorly received Kao the Kangaroo game. Although the Dreamcast was no slouch itself when it came to platformers at least on the 3D side of things with some of the higher regarded games you mention are probably better then the low tier Sega Saturn platformer games like the Bug series as an example. And even though both of the Sonic Adventure games have aged poorly according to some, I will say they are both better then Sonic 3D Blast, but worse then Sonic Jam collection with the superior Sega Genesis games included + all of the nifty extras. And I do think Rayman 2 is better then Rayman 1, but even with the few gems in the genre for the Sega Dreamcast there's so little and so few and far between when compared to the Sega Saturn and that is what I meant?

David wrote:What great JRPGs are on the Dreamcast other than Skies of Arcadia and Grandia 2?

Not that many especially compared to the Sega Saturn thanks to Working Designs support and the quality Sega 1st party exclusives such as Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force III, The Legend of Oasis, Shining the Holy Ark, Dark Savior are probably much better then the vast majority of Sega Dreamcast JRPG in terms of quality. Also the Sega Saturn did get more JRPG games compared to Sega Dreamcast: http://segaretro.org/Category:Saturn_RPGs 74 vs 41 http://segaretro.org/Category:Dreamcast_RPGs. So the Sega Saturn wins in that department big time!

I'm going to side squarely on the 'Saturn' side of this for my own personal taste. I know that my personal Saturn collection is far, far superior to my dreamcast collection, so take that as a disclaimer.

While the graphics and the sound are absolutely better on the dreamcast, and there are absolutely must have games on the dreamcast, (House of the Dead 2, Crazy Taxi, Marvel vs Capcom 2, etc.) I find myself drawn more and more to my saturn library as I've aged.

Example: Dark Savior was brought up. This game didn't win awards when it came out, it wasn't anything special. It more or less went under the radar in the Squaresoft PS1 RPG craze. I'm playing through, (slowly mind you) Dark Savior, Dragonforce, and Xenogears.

I'm enjoying Dark Savior and Dragonforce far more than I am enjoying Xenogears. I'm currently 29 hours into game, I just finished up defending the Thames. Xenogears is needlessly complicated, poorly put together, has EXTREMELY long "cutscenes" of text dialogue that last more than 15 minutes of just pushing X. Dark Savior and Dragonforce on the other hand start off at a good pace. They stay exciting, I can play them both for an hour or under and feel like I've actually accomplished something. The last time I played Xenogears for 50 minutes, I fought 2 battles, walked around the Thames for a SMALL amount of time, and spent the rest of the time reading exposition.

So tangent aside, I'm finding myself appreciating games like Virtua Cop and Dark Savior far more than I used to. I have many great RPGs as well on the Saturn, (Dark Savior, Dragon Force, Shining Force III, and Shining the Holy Ark.) There are clearly more RPGs for the system than that... but like was brought up above, what major RPGs can you name other than Skies of Arcadia and Grandia 2? (And Skies of Arcadia is available on the Gamecube as well.)

I think overall the Dreamcast has the better 3d platformers, arcade games, (like crazy taxi and virtua tennis) and 'experimental' games like seaman. So if that is what you're looking for in a system, it's absolutely a great investment. (The Saturn has crap for 3d platformers... Bug is really bad...) It probably has the better fighting games as well. (Soul Caliber and MvC2 for example) While the Saturn has fantastic shooters, 2d platformers, and a much, much better RPG library.

Several of the dreamcast RPGs are available on other systems as well. I mentioned Skies of Arcadia earlier, but another major RPG for the system was Phantasy Star online. It is also available for the Gamecube. Now, as a collector, there is literally no reason to have the dreamcast version now. The dreamcast version is single player only, while the gamecube version has both 'episodes' (essentially an expansion set included) and supports 4 player split screen, making the game actually playable modern day.

Unfortunately, this day and age getting the best games on Ebay is starting to get pretty pricey. I was looking for House of the Dead the other day and it is still over $100. Panzer Dragoon Saga is always over $500 if you want it complete with the case and instruction book.

So in conclusion, I guess I'd pick the saturn purely for exclusivity. Most of the best Dreamcast games have been ported to other systems. (Code Veronica is another one... this is getting rambly) Whereas the best saturn games are saturn exclusive.

I'm not much of a JRPG fan, I admit. I figured that a system with Skies of Arcadia, Phantasy Star Online, and Grandia II probably had more like them - if a schlub like me knew about those games, how many other classics would actual aficionados of the genre be playing? I guess the answer is not too many!