Hey Bernie, why don't YOU sort out the British GP

Bernie has done great things for F1 and F1 has done great things for him.

Let's face it, his career is in its twighlight and even he isn't immortal and thus won't be with us for ever.

If BCE is the godfather of F1 and Silverstone is the home of the home of F1, then what better and more fitting legacy than for Bernie to dip into his vast pockets and provide the funding to make Silverstone THE best motorsport facility in the world?

Could even call it Ecclestone...

Anybody else think that Bernie should or even has a duty to invest in Silverstone?

What I would like to know is what is really wrong with Silverstone , have been going there for over 40 years and it has changed much , some good , some bad .

Last year also went to German , Belgium and Italian GP s , sorry but I cannot see that there Spectator facilities are as good as Silverstone and or anything else really , apart from the Tarmac , buts thats not what B E is knocking on about !!

Originally posted by BerndRos What I would like to know is what is really wrong with Silverstone , have been going there for over 40 years and it has changed much , some good , some bad .

Last year also went to German , Belgium and Italian GP s , sorry but I cannot see that there Spectator facilities are as good as Silverstone and or anything else really , apart from the Tarmac , buts thats not what B E is knocking on about !!

Given that this comes on the back of Silverstone moving forward with their redevelopment plans, I would suggest that the real problem that Bernie has is nothing to do with the circuit or it's infrastructure. It comes down, quite simply, to how much money he can squeeze out of the deal......

Well, to call it his 'duty' may be going too far. It's easy enough for us to talk and presume to tell somebody else what to do with their money. But it would certainly be a 'nice' gesture to both British motor racing fans and the British motor racing industry as a whole, when one considers how incredibly wealthy Bernie has grown as a result of F1. And considering his staggering wealth, Bernie could easily revamp the entire facility, including the pits, paddock, parking fields, etc for the equivalent of what it would cost the average person to buy a new car. Probably even less. Although I suppose one could argue that Bernie didn't reach his financial position and the F1 circus didn't become the financial powerhouse it is by him showing a soft side.

Originally posted by BerndRos What I would like to know is what is really wrong with Silverstone , have been going there for over 40 years and it has changed much , some good , some bad .

Last year also went to German , Belgium and Italian GP s , sorry but I cannot see that there Spectator facilities are as good as Silverstone and or anything else really , apart from the Tarmac , buts thats not what B E is knocking on about !!

I've been to Interlagos and that circuit is shocking. I was there when Rubens led for Ferrari after MS pitted and the entire grandstand got up to cheer and I am suprised it didn't fall over. It certainly swayed about 2 feet.

BE just wants money. He has figured out that in other countries he can count on the government (and therefore the tax payer) to fork over millions in the name of "tourism" and he wants the same in the UK.

I can only hope this doesn't happen in the UK. I would rather see no British GP (although that would be a disgrace) than see BE get his grubby hands on any of my taxes. Government involvement would surely also end up in some fiasco, like the Olympics.

BE should buy Silverstone and upgrade it like Paul Ricard and the Turkish track. He can then take all it's profit, if there is any.

Well i see Bernie moaning again today about Silverstone. As i recall Tom Wheatcroft claimed to have lost i think it was £3m? when the Donnington GP ran in 1993...what a great race it was too! Tom reckoned that he didn't even mind losing all that money, just 'cos he got on the Podium celebration with Ayrton Senna, after an awesome performance!

Now, that was 15 yrs ago, God only knows how much Bernie charges now, but he couldn't get Tom to stage another one 'cos of the cost/loss situ back then!

My guess is that Bernie will drop the British GP, and at that point, i will finally cease to bother with F1, as that is the point where it all starts to go down the CART/IRL route, and we all know what happens there, since open wheel racing in the US has been destroyed, and F1 may well disappear down the tubes.

If it does, it would be a good thing, as it could then be revived by those who actually love motorsport, have respect for it's history, and who could run a new F1 which could be cheaper for spectators, give real value for money and excitement, and still produce profits so that it is sustainable, which is clearly not how F1 is at present!

I would humbly suggest that GP2 would be a decent start point, and that the rules could allow either customer cars/engines, or build your own car and/or engine, to a rulebook that gives a clear layout, and clear race and driving rules, so that the basics were laid out, and innovation was given a chance again....oh, and i'd ban windtunnels and computer rigs that simulate race conditions....one could even place limits on team sizes, say 70 employees max?

If Bernie is left running things, and F1 is left as is, (1) the expense and complexity will just drive fans away in the end, as it is frankly, somewhat abhorrent to see such profligate waste of monies in the name of Sport, and (2) all the races will end up being held in Asia at night....which would be the end of the sport's heritage.

Grand Prix like the olympics and the world cup make money, lots of money just not in the form of direct returns for the promotors. There income generated from the services and industries around the event is massive thats why governments, councils and municipalities need to get involved.

If the GB government or local council do not feel the prestige, extra revenue in for of taxes on money spent in and around the gp is worth the expenditure then tough, some other region in the world will.

I wonder if the British based teams ( everyone except Toyota, BMW and Ferrari basically ) would get off their own backsides and organise a non-championship British GP if Bernie actually pulled the rug out from under Silverstones feet.

Originally posted by roadie BE just wants money. He has figured out that in other countries he can count on the government (and therefore the tax payer) to fork over millions in the name of "tourism" and he wants the same in the UK.

Well, yeah, and with a business head on can you blame him? He has control of a finite resource and more bidders than he needs. Of course he can put the price up to stymie those unwilling/unable to pay.

The question is more why the FIA decided to hand over the rights to run the series (however it is framed) so cheaply without having some sort of sanctioning control over venues - after all the series is run to FIA auspices.

Or maybe they DO have control? I've heard before that the German, French, British, Monaco and Italian GPs are sacrosanct and HAVE to be run in those countries - look what happened when the French GP came off the calendar, it was promptly snuck back on. Then again, that might be misleading.

Originally posted by djellison I wonder if the British based teams ( everyone except Toyota, BMW and Ferrari basically ) would get off their own backsides and organise a non-championship British GP if Bernie actually pulled the rug out from under Silverstones feet.

Doug

Without Bernie paying them? Sure

How much do they bitch when Bernie adds races to the calendar? - then the shut up as soon as theres extra money involved.

Originally posted by BerndRos What I would like to know is what is really wrong with Silverstone , have been going there for over 40 years and it has changed much , some good , some bad .

Last year also went to German , Belgium and Italian GP s , sorry but I cannot see that there Spectator facilities are as good as Silverstone and or anything else really , apart from the Tarmac , buts thats not what B E is knocking on about !!

His constant gripeing has nothing to do with the track, or anything on the spectator side of the fence. He couldnt give a stuff about the true fans. The only ones he cares about are the corperate masses and hangers on. He then uses them as an excuse to screw the circuit, and ultimately those of us that actually attend the race.

If Silverstone were able to meet all of his demands without going bankrupt, he would then find a whole lot more things to complain about.

The only saving grace I believe, is the fact that the majority of teams are based here, and I don't see them letting the British GP go without a fiight.

It's almost funny really, rape the circuit every year and then complain that they don't invest in the facilities, when they finally manage to produce a development plan, complain that the remuneration won't be sufficient anyway. He's already receiving about £7M a year for a sure-fire success, I assume that's far more than the circuit itself, surely the risk/reward ratio is a little out of kilter here?

If you want real thrills, and a spectator friendly atmosphere, try the WRC. It's great, low cost, action throughout a whole day, not just a few jet displays etc, but car action all day, and the ability to stand and watch the mechanics at service, as well as being able to talk to the drivers, co drivers etc. Over the last 5 years, i've chatted to Carlos Sainz, Colin McRae, Richard Burns, Petter Solberg, Chris Atkinson, Dani Sordo, Seb Loeb and his father in law, Mikko Hirvonen, as well as Manfred Stohl, Jan Kopecky,Urmo Aava, P-G Andersson and many many others.....even met some of them in bars and clubs after the event! The atmosphere is much like motorsport used to be in the late 70's/80's, but with a hard edge of professionalism during the event. Even then, there is time for famous and not so famous, people to interact with the fans, which is how motorsport should be, and only is these days in US racing and Drag racing.....in F1 that has died, and needs to comeback before F1 really does die, which is happening bit by bit, every year.

Bernie could have taken over the promotion of the race a few years ago, when Interpublic/Octagon had the rights to promote the British GP (they leased Silverstone from the BRDC), and they paid him to let them get out of their contract early.

The fact that a company which was at the time one of the worlds largest advertising / promotion agencies couldn't make money from the race, and Bernie himself chose not to take over the race promotion either would suggest to me that it's nothing more than a loss-making exercise.

I'd rather see motor racing in Britain without F1 if there is a chance that keeping the race will put the long term future of Silverstone at risk due to financial difficulties.

I've been to Interlagos and that circuit is shocking. I was there when Rubens led for Ferrari after MS pitted and the entire grandstand got up to cheer and I am suprised it didn't fall over. It certainly swayed about 2 feet.

The entire infrastructure is terribly primative.

That said the character of the place is wonderful.

It also makes Silverstone look like a space station by comparison.

No offense to our Brazilian brethren but that's what I always thought.I mean big signs falling onto the race tracks, a small creek crossing the apex of a turn (all since sorted)and not a peep out of Bernie.

It almost seems as though someone at BDRC called him a short little troll at some point back in the 60'sand he vowed to make them pay someday

That and the fact that there is very little profit to be had from actually hosting a race.

Yeah, the major benefit is the advertising and publicity to be had by the country/region hosting. Hence the fact that governments are generally willing to put hand in pocket. Has anyone quantified what that's worth?

Apparently Bernie has a very personal hatred of the toffee-nosed BRDC who ran Silverstone like a personal gentleman's club and treated him like a second class citizen/didn't do any renovations for years. No idea if this is actually true or not, but I've read more than one reivew article which said that he's personally out to get them and rub their noses in it.

I seem to remember reading that he also understood how poor a condition Interlagos is in, but is not prepared to ditch it as he feels F1 in S.America is too important to lose.

What's the conclusion? He's made F1 big by taking decisions based on finance and politics all along, and bases all of his decisions on these things rather than a set of rules which applies equally to everybody.

It certainly explains why he's had no problems ditching so many great tracks (Suzuka, even Spa for a while for goodness sake). It also explains why he seems so determined to get rid of the British GP.

Sod the fans, they'll watch anyway. But don't come crying when we find something better to do than watch a bunch of faceless engine manufacturers run around on a sod-boring sterile Tilke-odrome while all the overtaking happens in a pitlane.

If I was a British team, and I wanted to show my sponsors why they were investing in my squad, the last F1 track on earth I would take them to would be Silverstone.

It has nothing to do with the history of the place. It has nothing to do with the drivability of the track. Silverstone is close to the top of the pile in both respects.

The problems with Silverstone have been documented for a long, long time. Every year Silverstone say they will make changes and every year they fail to do so. The BRDC has no real direction and even the latest deal to develop the track has the condition that Bernie commits to the long term future of the race before any investment is made. Well I'm sorry guys, but it just doesn't work that way. Bernie's heard it all before, and it's no wonder he's losing his rag again.

The only upgrade Silverstone is currently making for 2008 is a new pitwall. Well whoopy-bloody-doo. Spa had their race taken away, and redeveloped the entire paddock, pitlane and final complex of the circuit. It's still not perfect, but at least they made an effort.

I'm sorry, but in this day and age, when countries the world over are willing to pay stupid money to get a race, Silverstone cannot afford to rest on its laurels, nor to make promises it cannot or has no intention of keeping.

Sure the pitlane is ropey and the paddock is crap, the media centre is rubbish and the facilities old. But it's not that which bothers me all that much. I do feel sorry for the fans though. There's no thought or provision put into making the experience enjoyable for them. If you think bernie's being cold in his money grabbing, then the race organisers are clearly learning much from him, as the return for your ticket price is an absolute disgrace.

In my ideal world I'd put Lord March in charge of the BRDC and see what would happen. I'm fairly sure there would be an immediate revamp of the entire ethos of the British Grand Prix weekend with an emphasis placed on fans. Lord March has seen from Goodwood, that people are still in love with racing, so long as they feel a part of it and so long as there is something put on for them. Make the race an appealing day out, and you'll get your ticket sales. Get your ticket sales and you'll get your money. Get your money and you can make your changes and pay Bernie to keep the race.

The problem as I see it lies not with Bernie. It's a simple free market situation. Some people are willing to pay WAY over the odds and pull out all the stops to make sure they get the race. Why should Bernie as a businessman pander to Silverstone's inadequacies and repeatedly broken promises?

P.S. I'm not having a go. I'm a Brit and staunchly proud of it. I love the British Grand Prix, think Silverstone is a mega track for the drivers and would hate to see the GP dropped. I'm just trying to look at this from a realistic rather than a romantic point of view.

Thing is though, the British GP is pretty much a sell-out even with incredibly high priced tickets. It wouldn't matter if Lord March was in charge, he can't improve on that!

So if there's no way of making a profit out of the race and making enough to invest in the track, the only way to pay Bernie's fee and revamp the circuit is for the government to step in with taxpayers money. Even as a British F1 fan there's no way I'd be in favour of that.

Originally posted by tidytracks It has nothing to do with the history of the place. It has nothing to do with the drivability of the track. Silverstone is close to the top of the pile in both respects.

Too bad it has nothing to do with fans, either...

I'm sorry, but in this day and age, when countries the world over are willing to pay stupid money to get a race, Silverstone cannot afford to rest on its laurels, nor to make promises it cannot or has no intention of keeping.

But Silverstone or BRDG is not country. There is no way they can compete with Bahrain or Malaysia. Building huge space age facilities for Bernie would be ridiculously expensive. You cannot expect BRDC to accept massive expenses without fair return on investment.

The problem as I see it lies not with Bernie. It's a simple free market situation.

You can compare this "free market situation" to George Bush giving huge pile of tax payers money to GM, so they could sell cars 50% cheaper than any other brand. They would make even bigger losses than now, but hey...Ted the Tax Payer is always there to cover the bills. Not the kind of "free market situation" I like, that´s for sure.

Originally posted by MichaelJP Thing is though, the British GP is pretty much a sell-out even with incredibly high priced tickets. It wouldn't matter if Lord March was in charge, he can't improve on that!

So if there's no way of making a profit out of the race and making enough to invest in the track, the only way to pay Bernie's fee and revamp the circuit is for the government to step in with taxpayers money. Even as a British F1 fan there's no way I'd be in favour of that.

I remember just a few years ago Bernie put some money in and the BRDC spent it all on their own HQ! Bernie was not impressed. He's not all wrong. But boy is he greedy.

It seems it needs government money, the government will be criticised if they don't for not supporting the race, risking F1 jobs etc etc, and if they do for taking money from the poor to give to the rich. These are politicians so the most likely outcome is a fudge of some kind.

The real answer IMO is a whole new series outside the FIA, on the tracks Bernie is dumping, like Melbourne, Imola, Silverstone.

Originally posted by MichaelJP Thing is though, the British GP is pretty much a sell-out even with incredibly high priced tickets. It wouldn't matter if Lord March was in charge, he can't improve on that!

So if there's no way of making a profit out of the race and making enough to invest in the track, the only way to pay Bernie's fee and revamp the circuit is for the government to step in with taxpayers money. Even as a British F1 fan there's no way I'd be in favour of that.

Exactly. Bernie's trying to force the government to invest in the British GP and get involved. Because as soon as that happens I can see Bernie's bill for the GP mysteriously going up...

Originally posted by MichaelJP Thing is though, the British GP is pretty much a sell-out even with incredibly high priced tickets. It wouldn't matter if Lord March was in charge, he can't improve on that!

So if there's no way of making a profit out of the race and making enough to invest in the track, the only way to pay Bernie's fee and revamp the circuit is for the government to step in with taxpayers money. Even as a British F1 fan there's no way I'd be in favour of that.

Indeed, the Goodwood festival wouldn't go very far if Lord March charged (himself) $25,000,000.00+ for the rental of the property and track for 3 days.

Originally posted by jaisli Well, to call it his 'duty' may be going too far. It's easy enough for us to talk and presume to tell somebody else what to do with their money. But it would certainly be a 'nice' gesture to both British motor racing fans and the British motor racing industry as a whole, when one considers how incredibly wealthy Bernie has grown as a result of F1. And considering his staggering wealth, Bernie could easily revamp the entire facility, including the pits, paddock, parking fields, etc for the equivalent of what it would cost the average person to buy a new car. Probably even less. Although I suppose one could argue that Bernie didn't reach his financial position and the F1 circus didn't become the financial powerhouse it is by him showing a soft side.

I agree 100%. Given his age it's about time he dropped the used car dealer mentality that has served him so well and took a look at the legacy that rich patricians have left with their generosity.

It's all about the 'Emperor's New Clothes' syndrome actually. Bernie as a skilled manipulator of egos, and shrewd businessman, has created the vast edifice of F1, so that sponsors/car makers think that it really is the greatest spectacle on the Planet. The other F1 players, Team Owners,Drivers,Managers etc, all locked into this spiel, because they soon saw that there were fortunes to be made, which they all have, and good luck to them. However, on the way, they have all lost sight of the core values of motorsport over it's 100 year history, and have tossed aside the spectators and fans, without whom, it will perish. I have said for years, that at some point, some equally shrewd executives from the sponsors and car makers, will note that the circuits have no spectators, most modern circuits cannot fill 1/3 capacity even by giving the locals free passage. No one wants to spend money on a sport that has no live audience, as that does not help promote the ideas that sponsors and manufacturers are sold by Bernie, and by their own advertising sections, that this is a major sporting arena. Significantly, tv panning shots try very hard not to show the spectator areas, and let's face it, night races would also cover up the emptiness of the stands effectively. But, and it's a very big but, the economic climate, which is poor now, may help hasten the end of Bernie's charade, even the likes of China are not immune to financial loss,the Bank of China recently had to write off massive losses in America, and it's head said that the USA economy was a major headache for them as the US is their major trading partner.

It has to be hoped that any further calamities will effect the car builders and the sponsors, to enough extent that they pulldown the curtain on Bernie's Circus, and while the initial trauma would be a shock to all, spectators included, the end result of a renewed F1 going back to it's roots in the early 60's, of small, motivated engineering outfits, with limited resources but infinite enthusiasm, would bring back those two words Grand Prix, to their former glory.

Adios Bernie,Max and Co, not forgetting Paddy McNally, and let's hope for an F1 to come that means something to the fans, the casual observer, and has some relevance to real life!

Originally posted by ensign14 Yeah, the major benefit is the advertising and publicity to be had by the country/region hosting. Hence the fact that governments are generally willing to put hand in pocket. Has anyone quantified what that's worth?

For countries like Australia and Britain that don't exactly struggle to bring in tourists? Zero imo. In fact probably the opposite. Who wants to visit a place when prices have cynically trebled and there's an artificial crowd crunch in effect? Not me definitely.

But for banana republics and authoritarian dictatorships it probably means one less 747 for them and their harem a year. That and (in their eyes) it probably helps legitimise their ridiculous regimes.

What annoys me is the thought of India spending millions of pounds on hosting an F1 race while Britain donates billions in aid to that country to help its poor... There is a sad and somewhat sickening irony to all this.

Interesting. Presumably CVC could default on the loan through circuits failing to come up with the ever increasing fee demands, falling viewing figures etc. That would lead to Royal Bank of Scotland controlling F1. And who is their most prominent ambassador? Sir Jackie Stewart:)

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever Grand Prix like the olympics and the world cup make money, lots of money just not in the form of direct returns for the promotors. There income generated from the services and industries around the event is massive thats why governments, councils and municipalities need to get involved.

If the GB government or local council do not feel the prestige, extra revenue in for of taxes on money spent in and around the gp is worth the expenditure then tough, some other region in the world will.

Interesting. Presumably CVC could default on the loan through circuits failing to come up with the ever increasing fee demands, falling viewing figures etc. That would lead to Royal Bank of Scotland controlling F1. And who is their most prominent ambassador? Sir Jackie Stewart:)

A little bit funny that the company Sir Jackie Stewart represents is perhaps the biggest reason Britain might lose its GP...

For countries like Australia and Britain that don't exactly struggle to bring in tourists? Zero imo. In fact probably the opposite. Who wants to visit a place when prices have cynically trebled and there's an artificial crowd crunch in effect? Not me definitely.

It's a negative thing. "Wow, Malaysia can have hitek facilities for a hitek sport? What a forward-looking nation. But there's no British GP? Hm, they must be way behind."

Malaysia can have a 'hitek' sport and pay $40 Million to some venture capitalists for the privilege. Meanwhile 80% of the teams competing in that sport are based in Britain and pumping (perhaps BILLIONS?) into the local domestic economy in the process.

When you perform some pretty basic financial reckoning I think I know which country comes across the brightest there.

Very true, and i really hope it bites F1, it's time racing came back to enthusiasts and left the spivs and corporations behind. As to what Kar posted, i agree, and i bet one of the reasons for Bernie wanting to dock there is because India does get so much cash aid....wonder where a lot of it will end up when the Circus comes to town? No prizes for guessing eh?

It's all very well making the comparision with Government contribution to sporting events such as the Olympics, but the problem is that the Olympics are run by a statutory sporting body operating for the good of it's sports while FOM is subsiduary if a massively debt laden venture capitalist company. What benefit does a government get for for it's people by paying for an F1 event? The FIA (read: 'statutory body') is not losing out, it sold the rights, highly questionably maybe, but no loss to them so once again, Bernie's demads for cash are simply to further line his pockets - or as is the case now, to pay off RBS.
Australia, Britain, France and Belgium should follow Tony George's lead and say no to Bernie's ridiculous demands and let F1 wander off into the distance and implode on it's own greed.