Israel is a terrorist state and a huge part of its establishment involved terrorism, and while internationally it might be more recognized, it's claims to land are just at tenuous as the Palestinians. They're also a horrible ally.Not that Hamas is cuddles and puppies, but you may have picked the wrong day to stop huffing glue.

fluffy2097:Farking Canuck: How may civilians has Hamas intentionally targeted vs. how many civilians the IDF has intentionally targeted?

Hamas cannot intentionally target anything. Their rockets have no guidance. They are terror weapons.

Right ... like on April 7, 2011 when they fired a laser-guided missile at a school bus killing a child.

Or when they suicide bomb civilian targets including schools and school buses.

I am not a fan of the Israelis or their actions in Gaza, etc. But as long as Hamas continues to target civilians (including explicit targeting of children) and continue to hide behind their own civilians they will never get my support.

I don't care how bad it gets for you ... if you ever feel that targeting children or firing rockets from schools or mosques (so that your own civilians will get killed in the retaliation (good press for you)) is justified then just put a bullet into your own head. You are twisted scum who does not deserve to live.

Personally I'm glad that there are no other wars or conflicts going on to distract us from throwing millions of dollars at an already affluent religious state. Haven't we paid them enough by now? Let em have their own war. We don't give two shiats about massacres in Africa or South America, why get so frantic over a thousands of years old conflict that we can never resolve? It's not our damn place to fight or fund their ancient hatred.

indarwinsshadow:No, It's laughable and pathetic to read how accepted racism is on fark.

Try /pol/ sometime if you think this is bad.But yes, Fark has its share of white supremacists and racists, check any thread where police abuse minorities or Republicans are trying to defend their arguments.Fark is a US site and one half of our two party system is a far right nationalist racist party akin to the National Front in other countries. It's just a reflection of modern America.

sinschild:I thought all the pussified "progressive Israelis" were the ones calmly lining up outside the gas chambers and had been eradicated as a sub-species? You mean to tell me a group of people so persecuted are willing to allow others to lead them to slaughter again?

"Progressive Israelis" were the type that fought back against the Nazis, bonus points if they did it when anti-fascism was considered "premature". Progressive Israelis are the ones who would be against their current fascist scum government.

sinschild:I guess there is no limit to the bounds of how far humans will stoop to feel "safe" and to be "taken care of". I prefer my Israeli friends who have the "Never again will I make peace with those who would destroy us" attitude.

That's the sort of attitude which held back a solution in Northern Ireland for 30 years. Mind you, my sympathies are with the Israelis on this one.

ACallForPeace:indarwinsshadow: No, It's laughable and pathetic to read how accepted racism is on fark.

Try /pol/ sometime if you think this is bad.But yes, Fark has its share of white supremacists and racists, check any thread where police abuse minorities or Republicans are trying to defend their arguments.Fark is a US site and one half of our two party system is a far right nationalist racist party akin to the National Front in other countries. It's just a reflection of modern America.

Thankfully the other half isn't at all given to hyperbole or over-reaction.

ginandbacon:"The sites hit in Gaza early Sunday included buildings used by Britain's Sky News channel and the Dubai-based pan-Arab broadcaster al-Arabiya, the news organizations reported. At least six journalists were wounded, according to a health ministry spokesman in Gaza quoted by wire services." Link

FTL:

One of the buildings was used by al-Quds channel, which serves as a mouthpiece for Hamas, the militant group that rules Gaza. The Foreign Press Association in Israel issued a letter expressing concern and noting that a United Nations Security Council resolution says that journalists covering conflict civilians that must be protected.

The Israeli military said the sites struck overnight included a "communications antenna used by Hamas to carry out terrorist activity." In a statement, it said it also hit dozens of underground rocket launchers and a Hamas training base.

Doesn't sound like Sky News and Al-Arabiya were targeted, they're just in a bad location in a strategic target building.

Farking Canuck:I_Love_Cheesecake: Mrtraveler01: It's not right for Hamas to kill Israeli citizens.

How many Israelis have the Hamas rockets killed over the years vs. the number of Palestinians killed by the Israelis over that same period of time?

How may civilians has Hamas intentionally targeted vs. how many civilians the IDF has intentionally targeted?

How may civilians has Hamas intentionally hid behind vs. how many civilians the IDF has hid behind?

Just because their tech is so far behind that they usually fail at their mission to intentionally murder as many civilians as possible they don't get a free pass.

I'm amazed sometimes at how willing people are to hold a dual standard, to judge two groups based on completely separate criteria, just so they can rationalize supporting the underdog. Being poor, hungry, weak, downtrodden, repressed and militarily inferior does not make one right, or justify abandoning ethical or moral obligations simply to cause harm - not to win, mind you - to the other side in a conflict.

Evaluate both sides with identical criteria, and there is no way in which Hamas is not the primary aggressor, in which the burden of guilt and responsibility does not lie primarily with them. Sadly, this also means they are the side which has the power to produce peace. In any real way, what happens next is up to them. The fact that this war is continuing is because they want it to.

quietwalker:Evaluate both sides with identical criteria, and there is no way in which Hamas is not the primary aggressor, in which the burden of guilt and responsibility does not lie primarily with them. Sadly, this also means they are the side which has the power to produce peace. In any real way, what happens next is up to them. The fact that this war is continuing is because they want it to.

Is not peace. And neither fighting side is interested in peace. One side wants proprietary rights, and the other wants equality, statehood, and at least regional credibility. I don't even need to get into religion to see that these two interests, pitched against one another, can never lead to peace. Only a madman or a con man would be able to say so with a straight face.

proteus_b:ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed. At some point,trucks of food stop making it right.

How many German pregnant ladies did the United States kill in the 1940s? Every Israeli war is infinitely more justified that any American war has been, and yet people still get a thrill in their voice when they can dream of exterminating the last Jew from the world...

I'm sorry, I'm high on cold medicine. Did you just refer to World War II as an American war?

quietwalker:Evaluate both sides with identical criteria, and there is no way in which Hamas is not the primary aggressor, in which the burden of guilt and responsibility does not lie primarily with them.

You understand the whole idea that in an asymmetric conflict, "both sides" cannot and should not be judged by identical criteria, right? Case in point, Tatsuma's own statistics: over 600 rocket strikes have killed three Israelis, two indirectly, and a hundred of those didn't even make it to Israeli territory. Of the rest, Israeli missile defense took most of those out with the few that made it through being ineffectual.

You're telling me from that, Israel is not only justified in employing massive retaliation (over a thousand air strikes so far targeting critical infrastructure with the promise of a follow-up ground invasion and occupation) but has an ethical mandate to do so? That's a fundamentally out-of-whack perspective, especially when the stated means and goals of asymmetric warfare, i.e. terrorism, is to provoke a massive retaliation that saps economic resources, popular support, and credibility in the international community while simultaneously justifying the 'terrorists' own means and goals and increasing popular support.

In short, Israel is playing right into Hamas' hands. Israel's own massive retaliation doctrine justifies Hamas and its actions to Palestinians living in Gaza and perpetuates the cycle of conflict. This is particularly poignant in light of the fact Israel's own anti-missile defenses have been demonstrated in this very conflict to trivialize Hamas' most-destructive form of attack. Without inquiring or presuming of the ideology and goals of Netanyahu, Likud, or the Israeli right wing, why would you support Israel being willfully and intentionally manipulated by Hamas so?

Hai guyz! Any outrage over the Syrian Civil War? No? Nice to see how Egypt and Qatar get all worked up about Israel bumping off a few Hamas militants, but are cool with Syria killing thousands of their own people.

"It's not enough to say 'Hamas will surrender,'" Eiland continued. "We need to give something, if not to Hamas, then to others. It's impossible to reach a point where one side will surrender. Sometimes we become captive to slogans like 'We won't talk with Hamas.' I say the opposite. It's a fact that Hamas rules Gaza and that Gaza is a state. We need to recognize this and utilize the advantages this situation presents."Link

Mr. Holmes:Hai guyz! Any outrage over the Syrian Civil War? No? Nice to see how Egypt and Qatar get all worked up about Israel bumping off a few Hamas militants, but are cool with Syria killing thousands of their own people.

Whar, outrage, whar?

Good question... I think a lot of interest in the Syrian situation faded when the rebels proved to be just as bloodthirsty as the Assad folks.

A lot of the "fair-weather friends" vanished when the rebels "got tough"

Tatsuma:Massive barrage of rockets happening right now in the south, and has been happening for about half an hour right now

Where, oh where, are all these rockets coming from? I mean, who built them and then brought them to Gaza? It's a shame the Israelis are too stupid to stop this activity. Or maybe they choose not to stop them, since is looks better to appear to be the innocent party.

HotIgneous Intruder:Tatsuma: Massive barrage of rockets happening right now in the south, and has been happening for about half an hour right now

Where, oh where, are all these rockets coming from? I mean, who built them and then brought them to Gaza? It's a shame the Israelis are too stupid to stop this activity. Or maybe they choose not to stop them, since is looks better to appear to be the innocent party.

Hamas doesn't even represent Gazans anyway. They're foreign, funded by Shi'ite Iran, and taking part in destroying a predominately Sunni population. They are an occupying force. Gazans would probably be relieved if Hamas was eradicated, rather than thrown around their necks like a noose by Israel, who only cares about money and land in this situation.