Re: Feature Request: Orbi Satellite Ethernet Backhaul

Now even Amplifi are going to offer wired backhaul why does Netgear always have to play catchup after taking the lead? Competition always see to fly past Netgear even if Netgear starts ahead, just poor feature set and slow Firmware release plagues Netgear everytime they put out something promising, Orbi still has a lot of potential but features Must improve wired backhaul is one of them now every competitor is offering it!

Re: Feature Request: Orbi Satellite Ethernet Backhaul

It does sound odd on the Amplifi...

To feed on the discussion I actually have all 3 setups which was suggested to compare and ran a few tests.

I am in an environment where I have setup a single AP with 15 wireless clients on that AP. One is a IP cam streaming at 6Mbps all the others are a mix of 2.4GHz or on 5GHz AC or A/N. The mix is the same through the test. Using iperf 2 on a macbook pro (3x3 @5Ghz), all tested on the same channel and environment I have gotten the following results:

Apple Airport Extreme AC with the signal at -51dB varies from 520Mbps to 590Mbps

Ubiquity UAP AC Pro signal at -54dB varies from 350 to 400Mbps

Orbi single unit as an AP with signal at -49dB varies from 500 to 560Mbps

Ubiquity Cons: Relatively poor performance (coverage and speed). Verified on ubqt forum than cumulative bandwidth for 10 simultaneous clients is expected to drop to 300Mbps. I am observing 600Mbps+ on the old Airport. Best case peak single client is to reach 600Mbps (Vs 800+Mbps = gigabit ethernet limit for Airport). No dedicated wireless backhaul (repeaters would have even worse performance). Has some compatibility issues with specific devices

Pretty disappointed overall by Ubiquity but there is hope in Orbi. I think having more than 2 wireless satellites per base may degrade performance of the satellites making the wired backhaul even more important for locations which have that option.

Re: Feature Request: Orbi Satellite Ethernet Backhaul

@rafale7 I'm curious. I don't have any 3x3 AC devices to test with, so I can't max out my Ubiquit gear. Did you have the Ubiquiti device set to VHT80 channel width on the 5 GHz? Was there a guest network setup on the system?

Re: Feature Request: Orbi Satellite Ethernet Backhaul

Yes all were using VHT80 channel. Performance wouldn't be able to reach above 400Mbps without it. And no guest network. My set up has a separate SSID for 2.4GHz though and it was set exactly the same to make it a drop in replacement. I spent some time on the ubqt forum and it is pretty consistent with what others have observed there. Even if all the devices are 2x2 you will see significantly lower performance with multiple clients compared to Apple. In a "connected home" the single client performance is useless since we are to expect 5-20 clients per AP. ubqt own data showed aggregate throughput to be very limited in multi user environment and are releasing the HD with a 4x4 radio at a whooping $350 a piece to improve it. If it was $150 I would have considered it but not at $350.

That being said I am considering changing my setup to increase range and if possible speed and I have to say, ubqt is not the answer. Both speed and range are reduced dramatically. It could be that the LR has higher range but being a 2X2, it would be a downgrade for speed. The major problem seems to be the processing power of the unit.

The controller was a pain to install on ubuntu server and took a lot of community help/try and error to get to work but is very attractive, informative and functional so I understand the hype.I am just very disappointed by the hardware performance and can only say there is a lot of overhyping going on.

Re: Feature Request: Orbi Satellite Ethernet Backhaul

Thanks, @rafale7. I'm surprised you could get 600 Mbps from so far away. I've read that Apple is discontinuing their WiFi APs though. Strange, since they seem to perform well.

financial decision based on how much they would make on routers etc v how much they make on phones and tablets

Yeah. Seems like it's getting harder and harder to find high-performance products anymore. People don't want to pay for it. The phone market is also making it harder to find high performance electronic components like accelerometers and magnetometrs.

Re: Feature Request: Orbi Satellite Ethernet Backhaul

Indeed. The rumor is that the development team from Apple's router have been reassigned to the AppleTV product. It means no new product or developments in the foreseeable future but when I look at the market offering and the development in the past 4 years, I can see why. There isn't any significant breakthrough. Their 4 year old product is still competitive and and a lack of innovation/differentiation means lack of revenue $.

And note that the Orbi is not too shabby. It is actually pretty close and far ahead of the ubqt. The hardware is good. Software/firmware needs some work which is the opposite of ubqt. The single biggest differentiation is the 1.7Gbps wireless backhaul which can feed a satelitte broadcasting at 1.3Gbps (+450Mbps at 2.4GHz). The 5GHz AC radio itself, the ethernet ports and the processing power are all there. Just need to make it run right. Netgear has the right idea.

I think UAP AC's concept is a wired mesh with weak APs compensated by numbers and having them work in concert coordinated by a separate controller and router. It appears to have been designed for 2x2 devices with low throughputs. Each AP, having more of them, would then have to handle fewer clients and needing less bandwidth. The issue I see with this is the intrinsic bandwidth of each AP is too low and not future proof. The new HD really is adding more processing capability more than the extra antenna and radio giving the abilty to handle more throughput.

If netgear could make the orbi router the controller and each satellite having the ability to connect wirelessly to one other satellite and wired to the router. Or be connected to the router wirelessly, you would get the most flexible and powerful wireless platform. For now, I guess I am returning all the new gear.

Re: Feature Request: Orbi Satellite Ethernet Backhaul

However, the Velop's lack of extra ethernet ports, like the Orbi, gives me pause. As the competition for mesh system heats up in 2017, Netgear would really be foolish to leave this feature out forever.

I'll just sit and wait and continue resenting my pair of R6400 in clunky AP mode.

Re: Feature Request: Orbi Satellite Ethernet Backhaul

I just purchased the Orbi system from Costco with Router and 2 satellites. Unlike eero and other comptetors there is no ethernet (wired) connection on the Orbi satellites. Big disappointment. My house is large and is wired for 4 ethernet ports. Several rumors on the various blogs state that the ORBI satellites will get a firmware update that will enable one of the 4 ethernet ports on the satellites to function as a backhaul connection to the router. Is this true? Its a shame to use a wireless connection when I have a wired ports available throughout my house. Also, in addtion to using a network switch at the ORBI ROUTER i will need to use a network switch AND an Orbi satellite at each wired ports in my house, rather than just an ORBI satellite with one ethernet backhaul. This will result in daisychaining switchs and I have heard that daisychaining switches is not good. Costco allows 90 days for returns. If the firmware update does not happen within 90 days I will return the Orbi and purchase a few Apple Airports.

Re: Feature Request: Orbi Satellite Ethernet Backhaul

interestingly you have read there might be an update and you where aware that it didnt have ethernet backhaul yet you purchased the orbi and are now disapointed !!! , wether it will ever get or at some stage get ethernet backhaul is anyones guess as its been talked about forever and nothing from netgear as far as an official response goes , not even a suggestion at this stage

if you have structured ethernet runs in the house why would you want any mesh or distributed wireless system anyway , all you need is a few well placed wireless access points or wireless routers with AP mode

its been almost a year since the orbi was in beta and then released and all that time ppl have asked for backhaul ethernet and nothing has come of it and tbh i dont think it will in the next 90 days although wonders never cease to amaze me , perhaps ethernet backhaul on the orbi will be one of them that do

Re: Feature Request: Orbi Satellite Ethernet Backhaul

peteytesting wrote:

wether it will ever get or at some stage get ethernet backhaul is anyones guess as its been talked about forever and nothing from netgear as far as an official response goes , not even a suggestion at this stage

Netgear acknowledged this request and said they are considering it, but didn't confirm that it will happen for sure. The post I read from a Netgear product manager is on this forum here somewhere, in one of the ehternet backhaul threads.

Re: Feature Request: Orbi Satellite Ethernet Backhaul

Forgot to check the existance of the ethernet backhaul (as I imagined it was available).

Cannot wait for the firmware update... If it ever sees the light of day...

I returned mine yesterday. It is too bad because they were performing quite well but did not fit my use case. After thinking about it, Not to second guess the netgear engineers and marketing guys but being in the tech field doing both jobs myself, I would have adopted a slightly different product strategy:

1. I would have made the routers and satellites interchangeable given the fact that they are physically identical in terms of hardware. It would have saved cost by releasing a unique unit and lowered the inventory management.

2. I would have designed it with the flexibility of the ethernet backhaul, used a 3x3 broadcast radio with the 4x4 backhaul

3. limited the backhaul to 2 satellites to maintain performance of the wireless satellites.

I spent some time testing different 2x2, 3x3, and 4x4 APs with a single clients on the 5GHz AC band for those who think the unifi AC lineup is anywhere close to an upgrade, think again. they are practicaly the slowest AP you can buy with the exception of the just off the mill AC-HD which is finally using a decent/enterprise chipset. The others use a chipset only found in a couple of very poor budget N or "AC was an afterthought" routers. The AC-Pro achieved 25-50% lower speed vs the Apple AP at most locations in spite of using 50% (6 Vs 4) more units in my topology.

Re: Feature Request: Orbi Satellite Ethernet Backhaul

Any update from Netgear Engineering on this wired backhaul feature? Do any Mods have any additional info to share with us on this topic if Engineering are considering this as a future enhancement request? Netgear Idea exchange has it as the most popular feature requested.

Re: Feature Request: Orbi Satellite Ethernet Backhaul

Let me acknowledge that our customer base has been clamoring for this feature for a while, and we are trying to be responsive to their needs. To provide context on why it's taking a while to get it out, during the first quarter, the Orbi Engineering team was focused on bringing out the two new products (RBK30 & RBK40) to market. Now that it's accomplished, we're actively working on bringing this feature and a couple of other interesting, market-requested features to you.

Re: Feature Request: Orbi Satellite Ethernet Backhaul

@AmitR this is fantastic news that wired backhaul is in the works a feature most welcome and highly desired and being requested for a while by the community. thank you for the update and good news we eagerly await the firmware that will make this a really. thank you Engineering for listening.