Wednesday, April 13, 2011

2010 ATB Silver Bullion Update

More authorized purchasers have made their 2010 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins available for sale. Because of the US Mint's terms and conditions for the distribution of the coins, pricing is below melt value.

A few weeks ago, I provided information on some AP's selling their allotments through relatively accessible means. This time around, the order process is more complicated or restricted, but I wanted to present the information for any interested readers.

Dillon Gage had previously indicated that their allotment was sold out. However, a few days ago, they announced that they had a "limited quantity" available. This may have been due to some of the original orders being canceled as duplicates or for other reasons.

Five coin sets of the 2010 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins are available for $937.00 including shipping and handling, or $1,025.00 for Texas residents.

Unfortunately, their ordering process is not very easy. A form must be completed, signed, and returned. Then, payment must be sent by bank wire only, presumably before any confirmation of order acceptance is provided. Sending funds via bank wire generally involves physically going to the bank and may incur a fee.

APMEX has made their remaining allotment available, but only to certain people who have been selected to receive the opportunity to purchase them.

According to emails sent by APMEX, there were 18,000 requests to order the coins. They selected 3,500 email addresses and provided these people with the opportunity to purchase one of 3,100 available sets. The coins are encapsulated in PCGS "Choice BU" holders and priced at $959.95 per set if paying by check or wire, or $988.75 for payment by credit card. For the group of selected email addresses, orders must be placed by April 15, 2011, midnight CST.

Their product page can be found online here. As mentioned, only those 3,500 people selected by APMEX can place orders. A reader whose email was not selected reported that the order cannot be completed at step 2 of the checkout process.

Prudential

Continuing the theme of complicated ordering processes, another reader mentioned that Prudential is accepting orders for 5 coin sets at $862.70.

In order to attempt to purchase the coins, an account agreement form must be completed, a W-9 must be completed with a social security number, and a copy of a government issued photo ID must be provided. These forms and documentation must be sent along with a check to the New Accounts Department where it will be reviewed.

If your order is accepted, the coins are not immediately shipped to you. Rather they are held at Diamond State Depository, a separate company where you will need to open another account. Once this account is open, you can have DSD continue to store the coins for you or arrange delivery. Either option will involve fees, which are unspecified.

If anyone is willing to put up with all of that, the order form and further information can be found here.

I faxed and emailed Dillon Gage twice requesting a confirmation but they didn't reply. Then I emailed them saying that the bank requires their address and their bank's address which weren't on the form, to process the wire and I quickly got a response. I sent the wire Monday at 4:30 pm and today I got an order confirmation from their shipping department.

Getting these for below spot even with the wire fee can't be beat. I don't buy lottery tickets but when a deal looks good but complicated I take the chance. A multi-million dollar corporation is not going to play games with a $937 transaction.

"We are sorry, your Customer ID was not selected to be eligible to purchase one of these items.2010 5 oz Silver ATB 5-Coin Set PCGS BU or Better (May 13th)These items have been removed from your cart."

For 8:51 AM. Please explain your comment, as the Mint completes all of their Numismatic sales through a First In, First Out (FIFO) process. At least I can't recall a specific instance when they used a lottery or alternative selection process for any recent products. All of the other APs, to include the first round of APMEX sales, have used the similar FIFO system. The 5oz UNC coin on April 28th also will be handled in the same, nightmarish way.

The more relevant question is, "Did APMEX select the first 3500 qualified candidates from their wait list, or did they pick and choose? If the latter, then there is a huge problem.

Either way, Kudos to the lucky 3500!! Encapsulated AND a great price. Get 'em while you can.

Prudential's forcing you to deal with a third party's unspecified fees to ship them is really ridiculous and can't comply with the Mint's rules of no hidden charges. What is the phone number of the Mint's legal counsel? Someone had it a while back.

The Coin World article, as written, says that the 2010 Hot Springs and Yellowstone UNC "P" bullion will both go on sale at the MINT on April 25th.

When, in fact, the 2011 Gettysburg and Glacier bullions will be made available to the APs on April 25th at spot plus mark-up; $225 +/-. The 2010 Hot Springs "P" goes on sale to the public on 28 April for $279.95.

I did not get an e-mail from Apmex either way so I took a chance and went to their site and ordered the set and it went thru. At least they took the credit card # and I have a printed sheet saying that it has been purchased. Thank you Michael for this site because otherwise I would have never known to even try to order. Strange stuff!!

I live just north of Dallas in Oklahoma. My brother has not been able to buy a set yet. Does anyone know if Dillon-Gage would let you walk in a buy a set for either cash or a money order? The post said they will not accept phone calls on ATB coins. I have never done any business with them. Again thanks to all who make this a successful site.

Dillon Gage doesn't care how you send the money - but many banks do not allow western union deposits anymore, due to fraud. That might be a problem, but you could try. I know my bank bans western union wires.

I pulled the trigger on a Prudential set and overnighted a check after calling their shipping company and being told the fee is $65 so the total would be 927.70, or $37.10 per oz., $3.50 an ounce under spot. That makes 7 companies I've been able to buy from, all learned of from this blog!

My plan is, if the price of silver goes up too high I'll at least be able to trade these for future 5 oz. issues.

Still I wonder how can such a rare issue be so easy to get 7 of?!!! If each collector gets an average of just 3 sets that's only 11,000 collectors buying these from the source. Maybe the 27,000 collector versions will take months to sell out as long as it is limited to 1 per family and flippers aren't able to buy 100 at a time.

You have until midnight (CST) Friday, April 15th, 2011, to go to the APMEX website and purchase your own set. These coins will sell out quickly so ACT NOW because there might not be any left by Friday. According to the U.S. Mint special provisions for these coins, only one set may be purchased per U.S. household.

We are offering these coins to you at unprecedented pricing below melt value with valued-added authentication, grading and encapsulation* by PCGS. In addition, your set is packaged in a custom designed box with a foam insert with five slots specifically cut, one for each PCGS holder, to ensure safe delivery and convenient for long term storage. As you already know, only 33,000 sets have been minted of the first series of these immensely popular coins, making them one of the most coveted coin series ever released.

The number of real collectors of the ATB bullions is unknown. Who knows what the demand for these will be in the future. But even with that uncertainty, it's pretty hard to turn down buying silver below spot. There's hardly any downside to buying these at the AP prices.

Hey APMEX person from 6:17pm: I'd love to buy one of the sets but your company chose to pick the buyers. Now you have a waiting game when you could been sold out by now. Why doesn't APMEX do a first come first served like the eight other AP's and the US Mint? I don't get your strategy.

I canceled my first order from Jack Hunt but was able to order the second go around. I agree, couldn't pass it up for below spot. I'm done with modern collectible coins it's bullion from now on. As for coins maybe buy some older issue that have intrinsic value right about where the spot price is. That way it limits your downside. Took me awhile to learn this, and my wife pointing out that anything over spot is like collecting beanie babies!! Haha She's never been a fan of modern commemoratives, easy to sell her on pre 64 silver or pre 33 gold. :-)

Thank you Michael for this great blog! I would not have known about Apmex selling otherwise. Have been on their wait list for these since last June. Passed on the initial December mint rule flouting, price gouge. Did not get an email today as of 8:00 PM, even checked my spam box. Decided to try an order anyway and it went through. Maybe several mult-thousand dollar purchases in past helped. I have stuck to mint rules so others would have a chance. Have gotten 1 order through to 7 AP's. Gold Center too far from NH and not sure if Prudential is worth the hassle. They make it clear they don't want your business when you call them.Best set was A-mark with 4 NGC 69's and 1 68. Worst was Jack Hunt.Thanks again Michael for my favorite blog!

Hey any fellow numismatists, what is the "promo code" you need to enter for APMEX to buy ATBs?

I set up an account last year and was on the "alert list" and never got an alert.

They are now trying to scr** me by pretending some lottery made me not able to purchase the coins. Lottery???? Come on!!!!

How does APMEX know the lottery "winners" will actually buy the coins?????????????

A US Government approved reseller needs to be fair. APMEX you are not being fair.

Should be first come first serve.Maybe my zip code entered doesn't have a high enough median income for them????

Someone should look into this.I would like to know how many actual individuals that did not sign up for the initial rip-off priced coins were selected for the lottery. If the answer is not several thousand (documented) than I suggest further action from our government.

How did APMEX conduct their lottery?Seems bizzare they would not do first come, first serve. There would be no way they would know if "lottery" winners would purchase the coins, since many other venues have been recently available.Smells fishy to me too.

Not to defend APMEX's handling of the whole affair but there are not many perfectly equitable solutions at this point. A pre-announcement would result in slamming of the website with many dissapointed that did not get through. A surpise sale would make those that missed out very angry. They opted for a "controlled" sale through some type of lottery. I was lucky and tried to buy before I got an email and it went through. Then I got the email about four hours later. I have only made a few orders from them, so I was not being rewarded. Maybe they picked some small buyers in the hopes they would not buy and could then re-offer to more people on the list. That way they could say more people had the opportunity to buy. One thing is for sure, it was not a list of only big volume buyers.

I'm a college student and put the "alert me" request on my account the same day the original offering sold out (in Dec. I think). I have been shut out from ordering and I live in a not fancy zip code 20783.

Purchased from Dillon and Gage. Sent wire and emailed order form. Received confirmation within 2 days. Not too bad. Also got the email from APMEX. I am a customer with previous purchases. Maybe that helped. Prudential, no way I am going through this torture. Worse then this was having to drive from Louisiana to Illinois to buy from the Gold Center. Passed on both. Others APs had acceptable purchase method.

CNT sent a very nice set in plastic petrie dishes (airtites). Along with the ATB set, they also sent 12 Barber halves. I think it is just a matter of being patient. If they've run out of sets, I'm pretty sure they will return your check. Most likely, they took down the website because they can no longer take any new orders.

I live just north of Dallas in Oklahoma. My brother has not been able to buy a set yet. Does anyone know if Dillon-Gage would let you walk in a buy a set for either cash or a money order?

If you are planning to buy a set from them and live in the area, why not fax or email your order, then take your cash and see? The worst they can say is no, go send a wire. But my guess is they will take the money and give you the set. They seem to be pretty nice.

The supply of this product was extremely limited. Therefore, in order to be fair to all customers who wanted to purchase a set, APMEX implemented a pre-registration and lottery type system to identify specific customers eligible to purchase the 2010 ATB coins from APMEX. Only the lottery winners received the email from APMEX with the offering and will be entitled to order one set of these coins.

If you did not receive an email from APMEX, you will not be eligible to purchase at this time. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

Hw long did it take for CNT's coins to deliver? I got an email with confirmation number saying the package shipped on the 12th April. When I checked USPS tracking info it says I'll get it on the 14th. ... The mailman was here already plus the tracking log only says the package was accepted in bridgewater ma. Anybody has any similar experience? Thoughts?

Will be so glad when all of you waiting on your 5 oz bull have them delivered. Such panic! What are you going to do when you flip them, drive the flipee just as crazy? Also check out the 2012 Redbook value, you better hope silver stays high. MMMWWWWAAAHHHHAAA !

Not I, I clamor for wolves and grizzlies. Not falling for anymore gimmicks, or slick underhanded deals, a certain AP was behind the December fiasco, and now involved in the April fiasco. Everyone knows who it is.

Dillon Gage just sold out. I got my order in early Monday and received a shipping confirmation yesterday. Pretty fast for an AP. I was able to purchase a set from CNT the first go around and they shipped within two weeks. Patience. If you received a confirmation, you'll get your coins. They were sent in airtites and they were the same quality as my A-Mark set. Meaning, very good!

I put an alert in with APMEX for the ATB 5oz.'s back prior to December, October I believe. When the Dec. issue arose the whole thing turn me off of the ATB's completely. No huge premium for bullion. I had no intention of buying and passed. Well, got the e-mail and just noticed it a short while ago. Silver under spot? You betcha. Placed my order. I'm still not an ATB puck fan, but I do like bullion and to me that's all these are.

As for those upset with APMEX, well that's OK, until the next good deal rolls around. I'm sure many of you would go back to them. I'm not a big buyer of their stuff (especially recently) and almost never saw the email from among their usual email ads. But the short answer is nobody is twisting arms for you to buy. Seems like many are trying to acquire multiple sets (within the guidelines, I realize). I do have sympathy for the guy that wants one set, but not too much for the guys working on their 5th or 6th. It's just bullion to me, and that's my intent in buying. Do I want it to increase in value? Sure. I buy bullion to hold my wealth, but I've never so much as sold an oz. (or a single coin for that matter, as I'm a collector)in my entire life. I don't buy what I don't intend to keep, barring a potential financial hardship. I'd much rather have a strong dollar and great economy, with $5 silver, but that's not the reality of the times.

I was selected by APMEX (sweet). I hope I ordered in time. I guess the emails/notices went out Weds. I didn't check my email till Thurs night. I read part of this blog post Weds night, but my eyes glazed over and I'm like, I don't have time to fight for a set of these coins. Had I spent money with APMEX before? Lots.

I'm thinking since the Mint lifted the rules for 2011, NONE of the AP's except APMEX will sell them directly to the public anymore. Those "other guys" will go back to business as usual, selling only to the "big boys" who will then sell to the public at an additional mark-up.

So everyone saying they will "do business" with those other AP's again will probably NOT be, even though it is not by their choice.

FYI - Although I was previously denied purchasing the ATB from APMEX because I was not a selected account. I just tried and was able to place an order. Received a confirmation e-mail after placing the order.

I thought $959.95 was the final price. APMEX just tacked on $19.95for shipping and handling (which must be bogus) for a final price of $979.90. Is that what everyone, including the 3500 that got the emails, paid?

Using credit makes it 1,008.70. I did not get a special email either, I-Phone orders get free shipping. This Evening my order was accepted and a confirmation was sent to email account. Checked the Credit Card and it is showing "pending", as usual. I had registered with them in early April this year. Good Luck !

Michael, THANK YOU SO MUCH, for your blog. Thanks to you and some of the others on here I just found out that evidently APMEX must have opened it up, after those on their list that wanted one got one. My order was accepted and I am so happy. This is the first time since December when everything came together at the right time. This is my only set. YOU ARE THE MAN !!!!!!!!April 15, 2011 5:25 PM

I just received the email from APMEX inviting me to order. I had already ordered last night. So there is a delay between APMEX's order system and receiving the email. APMEX appears to be selecting more customer ids for ordering blocks at a time. The email says I have until Monday midnight to order. So if you are still having no luck ordering, I would try again starting Monday night.

I was also lucky enough to be on the second round of email invites. I ordered mine 15 minutes before my email arrived so there is definitely a delay between the email and ordering. Thanks again Michael for a great site. Just curious want fellow readers on this board are thinking about the 125,000 mintage for the 2011 bullion ATB'S. Is the mintage just right, too high or too low? My gut feeling is that the mintage will not meet demand.

John: Given how many people seem to have acquired multiple sets, I'm not so sure that 125,000 wouldn't meet demand... Though it's always tough to forecast investor demand for bullion versus speculator/collector demand, it seems for the time being that the relatively low mintage of 33,000 sets has been fairly easy to acquire, even with all the hype surrounding them.

I'm going to go with 125,000 being "just right" if not a little too much. (Though I'm certainly hoping it's "way too little" making the 2010's keys by a long shot...)

The above posted is absolutely correct. Getting at least one of the 33,000 sets of bullion coins has been relatively easy for those willing to the pay.

That then brings up the question of what will the future value of these sets be with relatively low demand? And what will the value be when silver values fall from historic highs?

Of course, those who respond to such questions will likely say that values will continue to go up. But will they? I have seen a lot of speculation from visitors here and little facts. The real answer is that no one can predict the future. Time will certainly tell.....

Getting at least one of the 33,000 sets of bullion coins has been relatively easy for those willing to pay.

That then brings up the question of what will the future value of these sets be with relatively low demand? And what will their value be when silver values fall from historic highs?

Of course, those who respond will likely say that values will continue to go up. But will they? I have seen a lot of speculation and little facts. The real answer is that no one can predict the future. Time will certainly tell.....

I guess the big question is what will the AP'S premium on the 2011 bullion coins be? If the premiums are in line with silver eagles per ounce I would say that they would sell out very quickly as many people would order multiple sets. My basic logic is that silver bullion is currently off the charts, then why wouldn't you purchase silver in this low mintage form. I use the word low mintage in comparison to silver eagles or any other world silver coin. I think the AP'S will charge the maximum premium that they are allowed, I'm just not sure if 10% is their new guideline or if it was just for the 2010 ATB'S ....Any thoughts out there?

Prudential and APMEX (to their restricted list), are the only ones I know of that are still selling 2010 ATB. APMEX wll be sold out soon. Coins-N-Things may have more more to sell unless they sold out during their phone sessions which would be hard to believe.

Regarding John April 17, 2011 7:54 AM Post...In answer to the question regarding what will the AP'S premium on the 2011 bullion coins be? That answer will depend on you. The premium price will stay at what ever the market will bare. We Know that the silver spot price plus 10% is a given, no questions ask! Where it goes from there will depend on how much of your hard earned money will you be willing to spend. Anyone who has ever purchased scalped tickets can attest to the face that supply and demand is the key to price fixing. Now in the case of the 2011 bullion coins it is my understanding that the US Mint have intended to increase the mintage of these bullions depending on their continued demand. So with that in mind those who will be quick to purchase the coin will pay an enormous fee for that privilege and everyone after that will be subject to the price paid by the person in front of him. That is until the Mint restart production and re-release that same bullion, which will increase the supply and lower the demand, and thus lower the overall price to a new bare market price; which again will be determined by what your willing to pay, of which we all hope by then will be considerable lower than at it’s initial release price. That's what I think, hopes it will help you in making a wise decision.

What's the best way and cost to get these coins graded? Is there any blog post or information for newbie collectors regarding the coin grading process and whether it's really worthwhile to do so (or is it really just a scam).

I got an email notice from APMEX on Saturday April 16, 2011 at 6:30 am.I was in Vegas and did not read the email until Sunday night. I have until Monday April 18 midnight to place the order. I placed the order Sunday night and got an order confirmation email. So Tuesday morning APMEX might send another round of notices for the unclaimed sets. Please don't unsubscribe, you still have a chance.GOOD LUCK !

Thanks Mercury for your response. I'm just curious if 125,000 of these is enough and if the mint would regulate the prices on these if the ap's try to price gouge again. If they make enough of these then true supply and demand will take over and the price will end up where it belongs. Is the mint making 125,000 of these or are they going to mint to demand like the silver eagles? only then will it be a true bullion coin.

There are a couple of things are going to happen here. First the 2011ATB 5oz bullion coins, having no mint mark, will be purchased from the US Mint by the Approved Purchasers and then sold to the public in the same manner the Silver Eagle Bullions which has no mint mark are being sold. The US Mint will not participate in selling the 2011 ATB 5oz bullion coins that do not have a mintmark to the public. The Mint will have 125,000 2011 5oz bullion available for the AP to purchase then in turn the various Approve Purchaser will sell the 5oz bullion much the same way the silver eagle bullions are sold. The catch here in regards to pricing is that the AP are a liberty to charge whatever they see fit. To price gouge or not will depend on their discretion or on our eagerness to purchase. Skies the limit in regards to pricing. But in the best interest of the needed cash flow, it is most likely that the asking price will stays moderate. But where you will definitely see enormous price gouging will come from the individual collector who will purchase the bullions in order to resell them. This being the case, one way to navigate the market will be to first go to the actual websites of the different Approve Purchaser, much like you did when you purchased the 2010 ATB, and compare prices. You can bet that they will be in heavy competition with one another to sell their goods. And if worst comes to worst and there is a quick sellout the Mint can (and it sounds like they will) make more.

After months of waiting, I just received my ATB 5oz set from Jack Hunt. I've never seen $200 coins packaged so carelessly. They put each raw coin in a separate bubble wrap paper envelope with a note that it is just bullion and not worthy of careful handling. The Yellowstone coin has large dirty fingerprints on front and back. Most of the others have knicks and scratches clearly from mishandling out of the tubes.

I buy uncollectible rounds and bars that are handled with more care. Think JH could have sprung for a few plastic flips?

If Jack Hunt didn't want its 2010 ATB allotment, it should have returned them to the mint.

YEA!! The US Mint has the Hot Springs "P" up on it's website! {price is still $279.95)This is interesting:Ordering Limits: A limit of one (1) coin per household is in effect for the first week of this product's release. At the end of this period, the United States Mint will re-evaluate this limit and either extend, adjust or remove it.

Received my DG order on Friday, 4 of 5 look pretty good. The packaging was taped, very secure, with no sliding around.My coins were "raw" shipped in mylar flips and then in a small "gift"box, then inside another box. All in all, I'm pretty happy, quick turn around time: placed order and wired funds on 4/8/2011.Received on 4/22/2011, no e-mail conformation or ship information provided. Shipped via UPS. The UPS man just showed up at the door this afternoon, we did have to sign for them.I received my ASE's (1) 1991 and (1) 2008, as well, it has been a good day!