Sunday, April 19, 2009

All those brains, down the drain

Immediate Budget help to prevent the next generation of scientists and engineers being lost because of the jobs crisis this summer will be proposed by the Conservatives in a £600 million package today.

George Osborne, the Shadow Chancellor, will propose funding for 25,000 new masters degrees in science, technology, engineering and mathematics to help graduates who will struggle to find work when they finish their courses to carry on their studies.

What the fuck? If you want to avert a brain drain, instead of finding more money to send people through spectacularly useless degree courses—which will, amongst other things, simply make them more well-qualified to work elsewhere—why don't you propose actually cut taxes, you fucking pinch-nosed twat?

You know, so that businesses here will be able to... you know... actually employ these great minds to do something useful and productive? And you would, incidentally, help everyone else too.

If you want to avert a brain drain, instead of finding more money to send people through spectacularly useless degree courses—which will, amongst other things, simply make them more well-qualified to work elsewhereWhile I agree with what you mean, there's a problem in what you actually say. If a degree is "spectacularly useless", how can it make anyone "well-qualified to work"?

If it makes you well-qualified to work (here, there or anywhere else), it is by definition useful. No?

"If a degree is "spectacularly useless", how can it make anyone "well-qualified to work"?"In somewhere like the US, getting a decent job without a degree -- in something. Anything -- is apparently very, very difficult.

Thus, the degree itself -- in terms of imparting useful knowledge -- may well be utterly useless, but it might mean that you can get on the job ladder.

"George Osborne, the Shadow Chancellor, will propose funding for 25,000 new masters degrees in science, technology, engineering and mathematics to help graduates who will struggle to find work when they finish their courses to carry on their studies."

How is this in any way, shape, or form, different to Labour's 'let's have eveyone go to university so we don't have to admit they have no jobs' then?

that's because the US has shit high school education. They finish high school and start college at 18, while here it is 16, and then they need 4 year college courses before they can start proper university such as medicine or law; you can get a PhD in this country by the age of 24 but usually at 28 over there. this doesn't detract from the point that you do need a degree to do anything in the US.

The Tories' stubborness over tax and their determination to junk their traditional position on the economy is down to the fact that the new cabal of Tories at the top is characterised by gutlessness and a desire to totally triangulate Labour.

Which is annoying as the strategy won't work. The Tories will win, not because people want their policies but because Labour have been very busy losing all their support bases.

The Tories would do well to provide the people with what they want. Tax cuts and less state. Mimicking Labour is a bit like a lad turning up at a 70s mod meet up in Brighton dressed as a Teddy boy. Year's out of date and totally ill-advised.

Because that is what the Tories are doing - copying Labour with the constant theme that the State has all the answers and if you keep taxes high and use tax cash to solve problems all will be well.

Well as the holder of a Masters Degree I must side with DK. I understand that a decent Masters is d@m&! hard work, most will be in "pseudo subjects" rather than anything of actual use. A much more immediate benefit will be derived from a good clear out of Quangoes and a ruthless clearing of dead wood in the ministries.This is despite the fact that ostensibly I work in these areas (and d@*mS hard too) I will be prepared to bet decent money from my remaining savings that any Labour axe will fall on defence rather than the much more bloated "sacred cows" that have had funds hosed at them for 11 years. It is a fact, the state has no money other than that taken forcibly from the population. I am not a "fat cat" in the local government hierarchy either, when the office is closed, I do not get paid! (16 weeks of the year) No holdays either :( I have no complaints, I have a reasonable job and take much the same as I used to earn in Banking (not that much!) but frankly I enjoy the challenge of my current job.On the whole, as Ronald Reagan stated, government is not the answer to our problem, government IS the problem. Britain should strive to be a nation WITH a government, not a government with a nation attached.TTFN & thanks for indulging the rant!:)

One of the problems right now with the Master's degree is that they are universally designed to be "research training degrees". The research funding bodies are fixated on a 1+3 model (where you spend 1 year in a Master's degree being trained to do research and 3 years in a doctorate).

In Ye Olden Days, the focus was on your talent as an individual - thus, even as recently as ten years ago, a great many senior academics had done a Master's degree but never bothered with the doctorate. Nowadays, under Labour and with their box-ticking mentality, you could never do such a thing; indeed, even doing something as straightforward as going directly from the undergrad degree into the doctorate (very common at Oxbridge and in Scotland) is enough to get you blackballed.

If the Master's degree no longer has any value, it is because of Labour's higher education policies, because of their rigidity and their demand for uniformity in a system that, traditionally, has been organic and diverse.

if there is a gap in the finances, why don't these guys get the fucking picture - Cut.The.Taxes - we still have a deficit but at least it will encourage enterprise - the only bit of the economy that actually supports the state sector.

I despair of the Tories - I really do..

No - strike that - they aren't any Tories left - the Coservatives party in the HoC are all pinkish/bluish statist wankers.

Labour and Capital are the bedrock of all successful economic systems - and that means as little in the way of regulation, taxation and general bureaucratic pissing about as is possible.150 years of the Industrial Revolution went by before some commie suggested forcibly herding the masses into Satanic Regimentation Mills - and look what has happened in the next 120 years!I realised what a complete waste of time university was when I was 13,that a degree in geography was : rather common amongst the teachers at schoolthus, little use for anything other than teaching RE or Drama at a comp. school.

Also when I did my useless masters degree in business my dissertation covered knowledge transfer between higher education and industry and employers were generally pretty keen (especially in science, technology, engineering and maths which was the area I looked at) on stressing that there was a shortage of talent at Masters and Doctorate level. Many were recruiting foriegners directly from abroad. Some employers also stated that they would be more likely to sponsor staff on such degree courses if the specific research was relevant to their industry and/or company. There are also benefits for higher education. I could go into a lot of boring detail. Interestingly some of the less well known government funded knowledge transfer schemes aimed at this level of education (masters and PhD) have extremely positive effects on things such as job creation, exports and increased profitabilty for companies. We probably don't hear much about these because there isn't anything to get angry about.

Of course as with all policies the devil is in the detail and in the execution. And you might be right - it could be a complete waste of money.

I'll second that. the scientists of any great quality will piss off anyway as science pays crap in the UK compared to the USA for example. I was lucky. But I see posts advertised on the salary I was earning 22 years ago. How bad is that?

If you think science and technology degrees are "spectacularly useless", I suggest you stop using any of the technology that's been created in the last 100 years -- most of it by people with degrees -- starting with your website. You fucking twat.