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Hey guys! I wonder just how much of a mistake I am pondering? My current circumstances may afford me the opportunity to take a month long vacation following scheduled knee surgery and the subsequent rehab to follow. Naturally, the destination I'm considering is back to Ukraine. Oh what a tangled web...

my silence hasn't been motivated by either tiredness, disinterest or illwill. It's just that out present dispute about predation/symbiosis has presented me with some problems of both intellectual and moral character. And I don't want to be rude to you (as I respect you much), so I've been thinking quite a lot the last few days about an answer, which hopefully is communicative.

Predation can be considered from a pragmatic or idealistic angle. The pragmatic angle, where you consider the immediate practical results, would indicate that the Darwinistic survivor in the evolution process, should represent a step forward towards some better or higher 'reality'. I do not believe, that you would suscribe to such an idea (knowing you for the person you are), because that would mean, that FSU scammers would be of a 'better grade' than their victims; they being on the top of the food chain.

The idealistic angle, which I believe you are using, would suggest an idealistic aim, where the end-result would justify the rather unpleasant causualities along 'the evolutionary way'. So my question is, what is it, we are 'evoluting' towards? What kind of better or more 'reality-oriented' result can be expected from predatory evolution.

I do not expect a final or all-encompassing answer on this (I couldn't give such an answer on my own ideology), but at least you can give me some idea of, what you're hoping for.

But please tread carefully. The evolutionary (predatory) principle has often been used as a pragmatic, 'real-politic' excuse for individual, political or economical theories/practices, which are abominable in my eyes.

PS If Hawkins answer you, I hope you will share. And I hope in the name of the unintelligent designer, that you can get your holiday.

better late than never. This is an answer to your honourable effort of bringing scamming to mass-media.

I will make a guess: Whether we are religious or not as individuals, western culture has some strong roots in western christianity's peculiar attitude to sex. The consequences of that can be seen quite clearly in the 'official' media way of treating the subject: Especially american main-stream films give me shivers. Sex is either presented in such a Victorian way, that it's a wonder we still exist as a species at all (because sex is 'bad' and should be reserved for divine situations), or alternatively so brutally that most females should be cut up by chainsaws in the sexual encounter. (Prometheus once described the hypocrazy (intentional misspelling) about it, when referring to biblethumping women: "Spank me, I've been a bad girl" in sexual context).

Take this together with radical feminism (which is also served by medias as a popular cultural mythos at the present), and the result is, that if a western man is looking for an eastern woman, this implies sexual criticism on western women (why would western men otherwise seek contacts in the east) and generally on the (mostly Calvinistic) myth of western sexuality.

A man breaking both above mentioned taboos is almost no better than a bordello guest, and should be ignored (for the sake of the cultural mythos).

If I'm right, medias won't take up your stories. But please keep us posted as to the results. I'm not infallible (sadly enough).

Hey swede! Glad your back! Actually, I'm not saying that either predition or symbiosis is "better". Quite the opposite as my equations show, both are ultimately deficient. I understand your intrigue with symbiosis as an alternative to prediton, but I am actually looking for something better than those two options offer.
Since the nature of man happens to already be predition for the most part, I see it as being the logical start point of further evolution to something better than what we presently are, since symbiosis would possibly be a sidetrack from the eventual end of the journey toward what I refer to as true enlightenment. That being the level of conciousness mankind will reach just before we ascend to a higher plain of existence.

if possible, please enlarge and go on. I don't want to discourage you, but your 'cosmology' isn't that revolutionary as it is presented just now. But maybe you make some conclusions of a revolutionary character from it.

Hey swede! You're right that it's not so revolutionary, but a bit controversial. Current thinking generally doesn't allow for a "center" to the cosmos. However, we presently can't see any further back than just after the big bang, so exactly what took place, real physicists and cosmologists don't even know.

My thinking is that like solar systems and galaxies, there should be a "center" to the cosmos. There is currently some thinking that since the universe is expanding in all directions that there is no true center, but I see this as being a combination of not being able to see that far into the past and a need for certain things to fit the accelerated expansion theory.

Various mathematical formulas have been give 'assumed' positive values in order to 'create' models that allow constant expansion. I simply disagree with the use of these positive assumptions.

One such assumption is that 'dark energy' has a positive charge. This was done purely to propagate the expansion, where as I believe that dark energy is neutral and that all energy is in some form related to the original big bang.

Einstein's theory of general relativity actually allowed for expansion and contraction, but he believed the cosmos to be a constant and then included 'the cosmological constant' prior to being published. When Hubble showed that the unviverse was still expanding. Einstein said it was his "greatest blunder". I'm not sure if it was Einstein himself, or others who changed some numbers to a positive which then locked the universe into constant expansion. I don't agree with the insertion of a positive here either.

The only thin that completely excludes the possibilty of contraction is string theory. String theory holds that expanding and contracting would build up heat energy. I believe that this build up of heat energy is part of the energy. But again, it's a matter of numbers. Honestly, the deeper I get into it, the more problematic the solutions!

Hey guys! In the on going reality show that is my involvement in the FSU/ MOB world, a new and slightly unpleasant devlopement has come up concerning my 'real' Olga. In the past, I have brought up the subject of her taking English lessons, reasoning that if our relations are to proceed beyond cyberspace and/ or 'real' dates that include a translator, it would seem to be a necessary step. Yes, I'm studying Russian, but the ultimate goal IS for the girl to relocate and marry you, so her learning English prior to this would seem logical to most.

In the past, she has often balked at the idea saying she did not have time to devote to such a commitment, being the time to attend classes, at the time. In a recent communication, she indicated that she thinks it would be nice for her to learn some English before my next visit. Here's where it gets a little ugly...

She was talking about taking lessons offered by the website we are communicating through. Now, to clear up the website thing, it's only costing me around $2/ letter, which, I think, is reasonable. But paying for English lessons through the site is NEVER going to happen! I can arrange for her to receive PRIVATE classes for much, much, MUCH less than the price offered by the site we use, or any other site for that matter, for an open class.

I was able to sneak a phone number to her, and told her to call to ask about the English courses offered. The key here is that if she doesn't even bother to make the call, it will tell me she's simply not so serious afterall. A bit depressing, but better than paying for bogus, over-priced English lessons with no future of anything more than me being just another sucker who spends $230 USD/ month for who knows how long before the girl finally disappears. As my friend Sasha said, English lessons are not very expensive to people in Lugansk, otherwise no one could afford them.

Having been to Lugansk twice, I have seen some of the prices for myself. I can say that most things are relatively cheap, although their beloved electronics do cost a small fortune. I didn't get to check the prices of English classes personally, but I believe what Alex said. Regardless of the Olga outcome, I am still thinking about taking my third trip after my knee surgery and rehab. I've stepped up my own studies of Russian and I actually asked Alex about Russian courses for foreigners, and he said he should be able to find something fairly easily.

Hey! If I go, current circumstances will probably allow me to stay there close to a month, so I know I'll learn some Russian simply through emersion, but learning from a real instructor would certainly be useful with pronounciation and grammer. Besides, if my Olga turns out to be anything less than what I hope her to be, I'll need to know Russian better so I can pick up girls at the discos!!![:0][][8D]

actually I believed, that it was your equations, which were the inportant part of your cosmology. I didn't get, that it was the question of a possible center of the universe.

I must admit, that it's tough one (such a center), because it's almost impossible to conceptualize the alternative of no universal center. A possible way of looking at the problem is to consider space as a 'construct', not representing some ultimate reality, but as with its 'twin' (time) a separate parameter originating independant (when banging time) of the other forces and manifestations of the universe. This way space isn't 'measured' by how and where matter exists inside it.

But I'm stil interested in a further development of your thoughts, as you suggested an alternative to my hobby-horse of predation/symbiosis. My own idea was/is to bring cosmology down to a position, where the big principles can be seen at a daily level.

To go to our main-subject (we've been a bit around lately), I would hypothetically suggest, that the whole net-dating scene has changed drastically the last few years. A reciprocial distrust has grown between WM and FSUW. Straight WM suspect scamming, and straight FSUW suspect sex-tourism. With both parts having reason for this distrust. The result would be, that the straights are disappearing from international net-dating, and the bad guys are making up a greater part now. Hope they eventually will shoot it out with each other, preferably on 'adult sites', giving the straights some breathing space.

But then I haven't been net-dating for more than three years myself, so I only speculate.

Hey swede! The deeper I get into the cosmology, the more twisted it becomes. Trying to take in some of the equations brings me to recall one of my high school math teachers. The b!tch didn't like long hairs and I found myself in the principal's office every other day until I finally dropped the class. I was an A student until then, and more or less majored in math. I could use that knowledge now as I try to decipher the specifics of what Einstein, Hubble and a few others are talking about.

The generally accepted view that there is no true center to the universe is based on the theory that the universe is expanding in all directions from all points. I'm still trying to completely grasp the thinking behind that one? I think it may be based in quantum physics?

Time is factored in as the fourth dimension and seems to be used to support theories of 'folded space' and theoretic 'wormholes'. I'm still trying to grasp that one also.

The one factor of cosmology that is a part of everyone's life is gravity. Many of Newton's laws are still used to explain some cosmological events and unseen objects, including black hole theory to some extent.

To scamming, I guess these people are still of the belief that their little lives are the center of the universe???[V]

My thoughts pertaining to man's evolution into something more than we are today, invovles a devlopment of the human brain's ability to conceive and truly understand the real answers to the ultimate questions... "Where do we come from and what does it all mean?" Let's face it, right now it's all speculation, whether scientific or religious.

Today's scammers seem to be "evolving" in many ways, in response to a smarter prey. Aside from the very few, most no longer seem to go for the visa/ airfare scam. The translation scam is big, but I think the agencies and websites are working diligently to snuff out the indepedents with their anti-scam propaganda. It's getting so that a girl needs a local agency to act as their 'pimp' and connect them to a website. I believe that a good number of girls are paid to post ads on many sites.

As I touched on in another thread, websites are trying to make their translation scams to seem legit. But, if you find a girl who speaks English and can read and write her own letters, you still pay the website fees! If you check out sites where translation fees are charged, you'll notice that most girls know little or no English!

In the other thread, I also talked about gifts and English lessons which I also talked about in the above post regarding my new concerns about my Olya. Most "gifts" offered on websites are at least two to three times what they would cost you in Ukraine. Big profits!!! But, they have to pay the local agencies so that they can then pay the girls in the ads.

It's funny you mentioned sex tourists. A related item is sex slavery. There was a program on the subject on TV a few nights ago. FSUWs were mentioned as still being prime targets and with the UAH at 8 to 1 against the USD, I can see where the promise of an au pair position in the US could easily nab a few unsuspecting girls. What's really screwed up is that it's not WMs, but good old Ivan and Boris doing the dirty deals!!!

As for adult sites, there are plenty that actually come up when googling FSU/ MOB related subjects. As a matter of fact, after checking out some of the sites, I might just spend my vacation in Kiev. A guy can get a girl delivered to his hotel for $50 to $70 per hour, with multi hour and overnight discounts!!![:0][][}][)][V]

Universal 'forces' have a somewhat independant existence from space/time and matter/energy, though they interact.

We can percieve, and therefore conceptualize two of them, gravity and electro-magnetism, whereas we only can experience the two other (known) forces indirectly.

As with the socalled 'spiritual' supermarket presented by the abominable new-age merchants, selling the equalent of the Eiffel tower or Brooklyn bridge, customers will sooner or later come to their senses and stop paying the agency 'extras', and some kind of functional balance will be achieved. You CAN actually by a secondhanded car nowadays with getting cheated with 100% certainty.

But ofcourse there will always be those, who will be naive or desperate enough to buy almost anything at face value.

I had actually thought about taking up trafficking as a subject here, so it was good you brought it up. It's so closely connected with the net-dating scene, that I would guess, that it's almost a natural next step. Even here in our rad feminist, sex-repressing calvinist and anti-prostitution country, we've had sex-slaves. And as you said, mostly FSUW, who in this case were held more or less prisoners in a bordello.

Fortunately the police here are taking things like this seriously, so they stormed the place. I find it humiliating to know, that we in the otherwise relatively peaceful scandinavian culture are reverting to slavery. It's shameful.