Are you HOPING for a complete collapse and chaos to happen?

This thread though was so interesting, I just had to drop in my two cents.

Not much I can add, there are powerful arguements from both sides. People realistically saying what level of carnage and destruction that would
result and on the other sides, dreams of idyllic "Mayberry" nurvannas in a pastorial post-apocalyptic world. Hey, it could happen.

Personally, I dont want everything to self-destruct. I'm not as young as I once was and would swiftly be dead in a MadMax world that most of you
espouse (one of those 'dead weight' people the more Montana Militiamen among you have consigned to death - its easy to consign me and my family to
death, much easier than consigning us to life I suppose).

Recently, I enjoyed a Japanese Manga and Anime called Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou. Set in a post-apocalyptic world in which most of the population of the
world had been destroyed, the survivors live in a peacefull idylism, peacefully accepting Mankind's final 'twilight' age and eventual demise.
People openly post on fan boards for this show if they would like to live in this world. Most say they would. I say not. Why? Because it is most
negative to wish for the wholesale death of 5 billion fellow humans just so I can enjoy a quiet cup of coffee in an idyllic cafe.

However, the main point I really wanted to address on this board before I went off on a tangent there was that most of you "yes" voters seem to
think that the people behind this, the politicians, the bankers, the "elite" will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHALOLOLOBWEAHAHAHAH

That is so funny!

Yes, during the French Revolution, the King and lots of royalty did get their heads cut off... but most escaped and survived in exile in other lands
where they recovered their wealth and once again lived high on the hog. Yes, the fall of the Roman Empire did wipe out most of the old Roman
aristocracy, but then the Germanic tribal leaders just swiped all their gold and became the new aristocracy. Even in the Russian Revolution, most of
the old aristos escaped.

In this final MadMax collapse in which the normal six year old girl will be consigned to rape, starvation, and even death, those you blame it on will
not suffer. They have what are called exit plans, contingencies, etc. Even IF they lose much of their weath and even if SOME of them do pay with
their lives, most will escape. They might have to settle for doing their own laundry or living on one of their Bermuda islands, but they will do
fine. The survivors will use their financial and social status and know-how to rebuild their situation.

For a true 'change' and revolution, you not only need to get rid of those in power that cause the problems but you have to make sure that the
'leaders' who get ahold of their loot dont just go out and become the new aristos. That wont happen in the chaos that would happen with a general
collapse. Just a few billion dead peasants. I'm a wimp, I dont want to see a few billion dead peasants so that the Bush clan can survive in their
barn shelters and rebuild their kennybunkport hideouts in the new idyllic land to become our new lords.

I don't even SMOKE pot....(I used to sometimes, before kids) but I just want the drug war to be over and hemp to be legalized, and I don't want to
see any more plants made illegal. I think nature is sacred, and to make a plant illegal, to me, is like making my GOD illegal.

We are all too divorced from nature. Our lives are too artificial, slaves to alarm clocks and artificial routines, just mere slave hamsters on a big
wheel someone else owns.

i hope for it. i am hoping we will reach a higher plane of consciousness. you know, those ancients are coming back, right? keep my third eye open. but
even this could be false. i mean, how am i to believe anything, when i've never known truth? when everything i've been raised on is a lie. i've
read dark mission. what IS going on? help me, whoever can. we are all connected, right? because we are all just energy, right?

I have been waiting for chaos , end of the world, armageddon, the apocalypt, alien invasion and the extinction of the human race for quite some time
now. I dreamed of seeing the sunset for one last time, oh such feelings, words are not worthy of such pleasure. Just to let go of all that we've come
to know and love, to accept our fate and smile as our world fall apart. To genuinely relax as death come everso closer, when we are in its grasp, we
Will know answers to questions that seem beyond us as living being.
Our new world might bathe in eternal blue sky and purple haze. It could be eternal damnation fill with pain we've never felt. It could be nothing,
who we were just simply vanish, no more "me", nothing.
Why? We've lost our way, the world we exist in was created by whoever own the dirt at our feet. We are forced to live by the clock, Failure to do so
will result in you not having value, a state of Death. We worship and idolize men, we praise them, shed tears at the sight of them, quote their words
as if it was spoken by a supreme being. We''re all suppose to be sheep, somehow we've Allowed a sheep to become so powerful. We now obey what was
once one of us, without the restrictions made by this sheep we are Lost.
The end is never more needed as it is now, myself alone won't do. I must live to see our last sunset.

Yes I am hoping that the present order collapses,however I suppose we have to be careful in what we wish for in that if we do not have a say in any
potential new order the collapse of the present system may well count for nothing and may be wistfully longed for whilst we are in the grip of,for
example,a global fascist dictatorship.
Yes I hope the present order collapses but only if the people have a stake in the alternative.

Originally posted by yanqui9
Long time lurker here at ATS, been visiting on an off for ages.

Yes, during the French Revolution, the King and lots of royalty did get their heads cut off... but most escaped and survived in exile in other lands
where they recovered their wealth and once again lived high on the hog. Yes, the fall of the Roman Empire did wipe out most of the old Roman
aristocracy, but then the Germanic tribal leaders just swiped all their gold and became the new aristocracy. Even in the Russian Revolution, most of
the old aristos escaped.

In this final MadMax collapse in which the normal six year old girl will be consigned to rape, starvation, and even death, those you blame it on will
not suffer. They have what are called exit plans, contingencies, etc. Even IF they lose much of their weath and even if SOME of them do pay with
their lives, most will escape. They might have to settle for doing their own laundry or living on one of their Bermuda islands, but they will do
fine. The survivors will use their financial and social status and know-how to rebuild their situation.

For a true 'change' and revolution, you not only need to get rid of those in power that cause the problems but you have to make sure that the
'leaders' who get ahold of their loot dont just go out and become the new aristos. That wont happen in the chaos that would happen with a general
collapse. Just a few billion dead peasants. I'm a wimp, I dont want to see a few billion dead peasants so that the Bush clan can survive in their
barn shelters and rebuild their kennybunkport hideouts in the new idyllic land to become our new lords.

A good thing it is that you posted, you articulated well something that only a handful of people have ever come to realize. I think everybody should
think what you said a little before going on into another post, another thread, another flow of information.

Originally posted by hadriana
I don't even SMOKE pot....(I used to sometimes, before kids) but I just want the drug war to be over and hemp to be legalized, and I don't want to
see any more plants made illegal. I think nature is sacred, and to make a plant illegal, to me, is like making my GOD illegal.

HEY, hadriana!

DITTO! (btw, they don't call them plants around here, they call them drugs, lol, go figure)

As I keep checking this thread (btw, great thread OP), I'm really encouraged by the change in people attitudes since a couple of years ago. Had this
question been asked a couple of years ago, I think the responses would have been quite the opposite.

It's great that more people are starting to realize what a messed up situation the world is in now .. and how there is little hope that our
political leaders, which seem hell bent on making our lives more complicated and miserable, will ever do what the people want. Thus, WE NEED a
revolution.

I'd love to simply see all 50 states break up and become a collection of sovereign nations, all with different agendas to satisfy us all. I mean, I
really don't want to deny the socialist their right to live off each others blood, sweat, and tears, I just want a place to live where I can be left
the hell along to take care of myself and manage my own life for myself -- WITHOUT any government/nanny state interference! Let ME fail or succeed or
fail based upon my own merit and worth. And, STAY out of my garden.

I realize your point, but just like a number of posters here who claim that those of us who answered yes must want doom and gloom, you have failed to
understand the reasoning behind wanting collapse.

The collapse of the Roman empire led to the dark ages. But history did not end there.

Reformation, Renaissance, Enlightenment.. do any of these ring a bell?

Things change, and if history is any indication at all, they change for the better.

No, I have not failed to understand what motivates the people who have answered "yes". I feel the same disgust that you do with our current system,
and I want change as much as the next guy, and I would be willing to die if I could bring about that change. If a violent revolution could bring
about positive change, I say go for it. But I think that history shows that positive change doesn't begin in bloodshed. And the Dark Ages? It went
on for more than 500 years. Who's to say how long the next one will last. During those five centuries, millions died through warfare, disease,
famine, plague, and witch burnings.

The only way for this to sort itself out is to let the system collapse. Then, the true reason why we are here will be revealed, and that is to prosper
in harmony with nature, but it must collapse first, as throwing effort down a hole that is bottomless, will only keep the selfish people afloat for a
shaorter periosdthan they realise, but hang on they know it... don't they?

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