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Re: American Politics thread: 1TE

Well this makes me happy. Remember the birther movement? Remember one of the guys involved in that? Remember how is was kinda racist? Well, if nothing else comes from this, I want Trump to suffer something like that near the start of his term.

Heck, I am actually willing to give him a chance. I hope the guy defies expectations and does a good job. Doesn't mean I like the guy.

Re: American Politics thread: 1TE

Originally Posted by That article

Putin’s objectives were multifaceted, a high-level intelligence source told NBC News. What began as a “vendetta” against Hillary Clinton morphed into an effort to show corruption in American politics and to “split off key American allies by creating the image that [other countries] couldn’t depend on the U.S. to be a credible global leader anymore,” the official said.

Mission accomplished, Bond Villain Putin.
Big question now is what's the best case outcome with these bipartisan investigations.

Re: American Politics thread: 1TE

Scrooge McDuck would be a fucking badass president. That dude is actually a self made man, scraped and earned every single dime with his own effort, beat up robbers, tangled with outlaws, defeated sorcerers, solved mysteries and rewritten histories, spent time in hardship and poverty, added greatly to the archeological findings of the world, and has successfully run hundreds of buisnesses... and while spending decades travelling the world and getting to know people including interactions with many past presidents. He's even been to outerspace, so he appreciates the sciences and would certainly keep Nasa funded.

He's been a bit of a pennypincher in recent years and he'd be against a minimum wage increase sure, but he'd absolutely get the budget in check to the penny. Everything would get funded exactly what it needs. The duck has astounding principles and values, and he is a big softie at heart. He's smarter than the smarties and tougher than the toughies, hell yeah I'd vote McDuck. Republican, Democrat, or Independant, he's where it's at.

Sadly, not a U.S. born citizen, being born in Scotland would keep him from running. Alas.

Re: American Politics thread: 1TE

Mission accomplished, Bond Villain Putin.
Big question now is what's the best case outcome with these bipartisan investigations.

Best case scenario is that combined with other factors leads to us getting "faithless" electors in a couple days and anyone other than Trump gets in.

I agree with the fact that they don't have to jump ship to Hillary but... at least go with a somewhat moderate Republican instead. If a bunch of Hillary voters were to switch to that as a compromise? It'd be SOMETHING. (And with a dem as VP? Never happen but bipartianship would be nice.)

It's pretty much a pipedream, I just can't seen a whopping 37 people having the morals and decency to make the switch. But hey, every damn thing about Trump has been surprising. And one of them has already said they wouldn't vote for Trump. (They have not said they'd vote for Hillary.)

Trump is just such a nightmare scenario. Any republican will do damage and set us back in a fully controlled house and senate, sure... but Trump is a full blown disaster.

Second best scenario is Trump gets impeached and taken out of office *immediately* or removed via the 25th ammendment or any of the other available stopgaps. Sadly, in that case, no matter how short his stay, he'll still make it into Disneyworld's Hall of Presidents.

Re: American Politics thread: 1TE

He's still a spineless coward who publically humiliated himself for a cozy job. Everything said about him in 2012 about being a flip-flopping empty suit turned out to be true.

I'd like to emphasize, "a bit." I'm more happy that Trump didn't quite get his way here. I'm also not holding it against Romney for going through the interview process for the job, although admittedly it sounds like Trump made this process difficult for him.

Pure factual provable math? The comey letter two weeks out (after early voting had started) probably cost Clinton upwards of 7-10 million votes.

It is important to remember that the Watergate investigation began with the media getting reports of the involvement of minor political figures in the break-in at the Watergate Hotel. At first, the media as a whole didn’t take the story seriously, and indeed it took some time for the involvement of more powerful figures in Washington—including President Nixon—to be confirmed by well-placed sources.

Here, we have the president-elect’s close confidant having already (a) confessed on national television that the FBI illegally leaked information to him on a topic that may have swung a national election to his friend, Donald Trump, and (b) established that a core group of disgruntled agents within the FBI had a motive to act unprofessionally in a manner directly detrimental to Clinton’s White House ambitions.

We then have unprofessional actions by this same group of FBI agents with no valid legal or law enforcement explanation, which actions demonstrably affected the presidential race, per hard data and innumerable media accounts of the Comey Letter and its after-effects.

We then have what very much looks like a cover-up: rank-and-file FBI agents wrongly trying to set up the narrative in the press that the “new” Abedin emails couldn’t be fully reviewed before the election, and getting immediately overruled by their superiors; Giuliani changing his tune (in a way none, it must be said, have credited) on the source of his information about the Weiner and Clinton investigations; the FBI refusing to turn over its search warrant in the Clinton case in the face of a valid FOIA request; Giuliani mysteriously excusing himself from any further involvement in the Trump administration, despite prior promises from the President-elect that he could have a Cabinet-level position; and continued recalcitrance on the part of the FBI in the matter of Russian interference in the presidential election, with the agency being one of the only U.S. intelligence agencies to not yet—prior to the Electoral College vote—confirm that the Russians sought to hand Donald Trump the U.S. presidency. Many others besides me have noted that this is consistent with an anti-Clinton atmosphere among the FBI’s rank-and-file—an observation that of course is no longer controversial, given how often it’s been made by Trump’s closest advisers and even Trump himself.

Re: American Politics thread: 1TE

Originally Posted by CCC

Mission accomplished, Bond Villain Putin.
Big question now is what's the best case outcome with these bipartisan investigations.

Originally Posted by That Article

Putin’s objectives were multifaceted, a high-level intelligence source told NBC News. What began as a “vendetta” against Hillary Clinton morphed into an effort to show corruption in American politics and to “split off key American allies by creating the image that [other countries] couldn’t depend on the U.S. to be a credible global leader anymore,” the official said.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't really disagree with anyone, including Putin, doing any of the above things. Perfectly reasonable to have a personal vendetta against Clinton, I'm GLAD if Russia or any other state exposes the corruption that dominates American politics (some might even say it's pro-democracy and very American of him!), and while I'm not the biggest fan of the last part, I AM sick of American exceptionalism and the idea that America should 'lead the free world'. Just... no. America isn't a good example of a functioning 'free' democracy. Let Belgium or the Netherlands guide the way, they're far better examples of the success of democracy and (social welfare aided) capitalist thought in the west.

So yeah, what's the big deal? Other than being a big 'fuck off' to American elites, it's not like Russia put anything blatantly untrue in the public domain. They just hacked the democrats and uncovered the filth that everyone suspected was there in the first place. Could they have exposed the republicans as well? Sure. But uncovering some of the truth is better than uncovering none of it, in my view. Even if it gets us Trump, maybe this whole Russian hack thing can be a catalyst for change towards a more transparent system that can't be undermined by it's own filth.