90% of the time I'm guessing it'd go 7-0, the 4.5's would not be able to read the pros serve and the pro would be able to destroy the 4.5's off the return. Any points that went beyond the serve/return would still heavily favor the pro.

thejackal....did you ever play a tiebreak against Peliwo.....maybe that would answer the question?

I played with a german professional ranked in the 300's this summer, who trounced me 6-1. That one game....was the opening game where he made 3 consecutive dbl faults and a point where nailed his body at the net.

So you can get lucky against a tennis professional.......though 99 percent of the time it a waste of a time for that player.

thejackal....did you ever play a tiebreak against Peliwo.....maybe that would answer the question?

I played with a german professional ranked in the 300's this summer, who trounced me 6-1. That one game....was the opening game where he made 3 consecutive dbl faults and a point where nailed his body at the net.

So you can get lucky against a tennis professional.......though 99 percent of the time it a waste of a time for that player.

To be honest it depends on the serves of the 4.5 guys. My lefty first serve can easily hit 110mph and I have timed it as well on radar. If I can land one of those and my other 4.5 partner is at the net waiting to put away the return shot, then I think we can get a decent enough score on the tie-break.

the pros win every point because placement doesn't play a role when the difference in skill is too high. even when the ball is directly hit at the 4.5s they still couldn't handle the pro ball because it is too hard and heavy. and on top of that they wouldn't even get into the points as they couldn't handle their serves and returns.

below 5.0 the better singles players will nearly always win a double because ability to hit and tolerate shots of the opponent trumps tactics.

To be honest it depends on the serves of the 4.5 guys. My lefty first serve can easily hit 110mph and I have timed it as well on radar. If I can land one of those and my other 4.5 partner is at the net waiting to put away the return shot, then I think we can get a decent enough score on the tie-break.

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110 is a very good serve for a 4.5 (even a lot of 5.0s don't reach that) but still you are not going to put away an ATP return against such a serve. 110 is a WTA serve. that is batting practice for ATP players. they will not rip a winner every time (but often) but if they are not they will still deliver a low and sharp return that the 4.5 volleyer cannot handle.

110 is a very good serve for a 4.5 (even a lot of 5.0s don't reach that) but still you are not going to put away an ATP return against such a serve. 110 is a WTA serve. that is batting practice for ATP players. they will not rip a winner every time (but often) but if they are not they will still deliver a low and sharp return that the 4.5 volleyer cannot handle.

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david ferrer often serves 110 mph on his 1st and fed or any other player rarely maybe 3% of the time hit a winner of it

This “pros are gods” mantra needs to stop. I’ve played pros and seen plenty of pros play solid amateurs. The only guarantee is who wins, not the score. Plenty of pros lose return games by launching a couple returns long and making a couple sloppy errors. When a good player knows they’re going to win, they often drop sloppy games due to trying new things, using those games to warm-up because they didn’t warm-up prior or just not caring enough to fight over certain points. A solid 5.0 with a good serve holding a game against someone ranked in the top 500 wouldn’t surprise me at all. There are too many x-factors in tennis to always say a pro is going to win 6-0 6-0 or never lose a point etc.

To be honest it depends on the serves of the 4.5 guys. My lefty first serve can easily hit 110mph and I have timed it as well on radar. If I can land one of those and my other 4.5 partner is at the net waiting to put away the return shot, then I think we can get a decent enough score on the tie-break.

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If a pro can read and make an aggressive return on a 130mph pro serve, what on earth do you possibly think your 110mph serve would do? You realize that it is NOT about speed. It is about reading the serve. It is impossible to return a 120mph serve pretty much anywhere at the sides of the box without knowing it's going there first. Even if you do know that, you still have to make clean contact. You ever watch Federer serve on the deuce court? His wide serve is likely the most feared of all of his serves. Why? It's nearly impossible to read, and has so much spin that even if you read it, it's moving away from you so quickly that he's already prepared to put away the return. That's against other top pros. That serve rarely tops 110mph.

This “pros are gods” mantra needs to stop. I’ve played pros and seen plenty of pros play solid amateurs. The only guarantee is who wins, not the score. Plenty of pros lose return games by launching a couple returns long and making a couple sloppy errors. When a good player knows they’re going to win, they often drop sloppy games due to trying new things, using those games to warm-up because they didn’t warm-up prior or just not caring enough to fight over certain points. A solid 5.0 with a good serve holding a game against someone ranked in the top 500 wouldn’t surprise me at all. There are too many x-factors in tennis to always say a pro is going to win 6-0 6-0 or never lose a point etc.

This “pros are gods” mantra needs to stop. I’ve played pros and seen plenty of pros play solid amateurs. The only guarantee is who wins, not the score. Plenty of pros lose return games by launching a couple returns long and making a couple sloppy errors. When a good player knows they’re going to win, they often drop sloppy games due to trying new things, using those games to warm-up because they didn’t warm-up prior or just not caring enough to fight over certain points. A solid 5.0 with a good serve holding a game against someone ranked in the top 500 wouldn’t surprise me at all. There are too many x-factors in tennis to always say a pro is going to win 6-0 6-0 or never lose a point etc.

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We're talking about someone playing ATP tour events playing against a couple of 4.5's. 7-0 in a tiebreak.

It depends on the pro.
Probably very rare for the pro to win 7-0. Too much random variation in unforced errors, once-in-a-while winners by the 4.5's, etc.
I think it would also depend on the 4.5's playing history. If they are older guys whose games have gone down over the years, they probably would do much better if they've seen (and hit) that kind of pace when younger than guys who got bumped up from 4.0 based on consistency and chasing down every ball.

thejackal....did you ever play a tiebreak against Peliwo.....maybe that would answer the question?

I played with a german professional ranked in the 300's this summer, who trounced me 6-1. That one game....was the opening game where he made 3 consecutive dbl faults and a point where nailed his body at the net.

So you can get lucky against a tennis professional.......though 99 percent of the time it a waste of a time for that player.

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This would be a once in a lifetime, anyone, much less a pro dbl faulting 3 times in a row.

Murray was destroying Fed's second serve in that match, Fed has alots of pressure when he second serve.
But when a atp pro play a 4.5, he would hit his warmup serve (probably 70% effort) and can give the 4.5 trouble, and he can win the point easily.The pro dont even have to do first serve, his normal second serve can lead to a mistake or a easy ball.

Well this is a once in a career as well, but my point was, a pro playing a nobody, versus Fed playing Murray, against a nobody, there is no pressure, and 3 consecutive doubles would be hard to imagine, even though I'd be shocked to ever see Fed do that again.

Well this is a once in a career as well, but my point was, a pro playing a nobody, versus Fed playing Murray, against a nobody, there is no pressure, and 3 consecutive doubles would be hard to imagine, even though I'd be shocked to ever see Fed do that again.

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I'd be shocked to see Federer throw 2 consecutive double faults ever again let alone 3. That truly was freakish against Murray.

Well this is a once in a career as well, but my point was, a pro playing a nobody, versus Fed playing Murray, against a nobody, there is no pressure, and 3 consecutive doubles would be hard to imagine, even though I'd be shocked to ever see Fed do that again.

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At least twice, actually. He did it last year in Basel against Nieminen as well.

If a pro can read and make an aggressive return on a 130mph pro serve, what on earth do you possibly think your 110mph serve would do? You realize that it is NOT about speed. It is about reading the serve. It is impossible to return a 120mph serve pretty much anywhere at the sides of the box without knowing it's going there first. Even if you do know that, you still have to make clean contact. You ever watch Federer serve on the deuce court? His wide serve is likely the most feared of all of his serves. Why? It's nearly impossible to read, and has so much spin that even if you read it, it's moving away from you so quickly that he's already prepared to put away the return. That's against other top pros. That serve rarely tops 110mph.

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I don't know where my own 110 mph serve is going, so I don't see how my opponent would be able to read it.

david ferrer often serves 110 mph on his 1st and fed or any other player rarely maybe 3% of the time hit a winner of it

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serena mostly hits harder than 110, does it mean she is a better server than ferrer? A lot of spanish clay courters kick most of their 1st serves to open the court and then make the opponent run. when they go for it they can hit harder. I have seen ferrer hit 120 but this is not primary strength of course.

In local open tournaments, 5.0 players are getting blown out by 5.5 players.

I watched the top Georgia Tech singles player play against 300-400 ranked player Nikita Kryonos in the finals of the USTA national mens open at the NTC in december. I've never saw someone put out as much effort into 2 sets and barely win 2 games. The pro was jut on cruise control, but the level was insanely high.

Mac was referring to 5.0 players as weekend hackers.

Some people really have no concept of level differentials at the higher levels

In local open tournaments, 5.0 players are getting blown out by 5.5 players.

I watched the top Georgia Tech singles player play against 300-400 ranked player Nikita Kryonos in the finals of the USTA national mens open at the NTC in december. I've never saw someone put out as much effort into 2 sets and barely win 2 games. The pro was jut on cruise control, but the level was insanely high.

Mac was referring to 5.0 players as weekend hackers.

Some people really have no concept of level differentials at the higher levels

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You can say that again, the keyboard warriors here think since the numbers are close, the competition must be the same, then again I'm assuming they actually play tennis, and we know what happens when you assume.

In local open tournaments, 5.0 players are getting blown out by 5.5 players.

I watched the top Georgia Tech singles player play against 300-400 ranked player Nikita Kryonos in the finals of the USTA national mens open at the NTC in december. I've never saw someone put out as much effort into 2 sets and barely win 2 games. The pro was jut on cruise control, but the level was insanely high.

Mac was referring to 5.0 players as weekend hackers.

Some people really have no concept of level differentials at the higher levels

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People still think I'm odd when I tell them a 4.0-4.5 male stands no chance against a legit D1 female.

Clearly you are not recognizing the "power" of a great, hard serve wide. My friend is a fellow 4.5 and can serve 120+. No doubt a serve like that could ace ANYONE if placed right, no matter if it was a 2.5 or Fed himself.