Is there a way you can contact Palm back to clarify how they would accept your APP. Would they release a proper documented API (excuse me, I don't know all the terms) so you could get accepted. I would try to get a real answer. Is it that they don't want another player at all, or they do, but their are security holes in your player that would create safety problems with WebOS. Either way, I wouldn't give up yet.

Lmao chalk another one up to Palm. Just one more great developer lost due to so many circumstances surrounding the whole WebOS platform and Palms lack of basic understanding of what developers need to grasp full use out of the hardware (Or software in this case).

I wonder if Palm even really cares at this point? They have been dropping the ball left and right, at one point, its going to really just be the last straw. You can get away with this for so long, until other MFG's progress past your accomplishments (or lack there of).

Maybe Palm should worry about giving Developers true, open access to the OS/Hardware instead of playing a game w/ iTunes and Apple (worrying about that too much is crazy, don't they have better things do accomplish first?). They'll let you sync through iTunes, but wont let an amazing music player into the app store? Doesn't make sense to me.

Instead of Palm losing great developers, maybe they should concentrate on pleasing developers, of course, to this point, they have developed WebOS well beyond Palm themselves.

Sprint has been giving us a lot of options to choose from and frankly, Sprint is making it pretty damn clear that the Pre isn't their flagship phone that they'll stand by. They have the Hero coming very soon, which is very competitive and Sprint seems more open about details. Sprint has always been great about promoting Open Development and working with Developers. I think Palm has hit a bad nerve on Sprints side (Or sprint possibly foreseen the outcome with inside knowledge) and they closed a deal with the Hero as a backup plan. Good move Sprint.

Sprint isn't relying on ONE phone to pick them up. The other large carriers can afford for a flagship phone to fail (i.e. the storm), Sprint can't. Luckily they didn't count on the Pre and Palm to solve their device competition problems.

Their problem is that I used an undocumented API to read the music files. It is the exact same API that their stock player uses. I have heard of them allowing other apps to use undocumented APIs.

That sucks that you've put all that work into it and they won't accept it. But I disagree that using an undocumented API is a "bull$hit" reason. It's likely that the reason it's undocumented is not some conspiracy, but just that they're not sure yet how (or if) they want to support that feature. If it's in their code they can fix it if it changes ... they have a lot less control over it if it's in some 3rd party app.

Did they say if it might be supported in the future? I expect the SDK will need to add a lot of new features at some point ... it's quite restricted at this point (not surprisingly since it's so new). Your app may just need to stay in "beta" a while longer.

So does your app just use an undocumented API or does it also live in the com.palm app space?

If the former, I can see how they would not want to release an app that calls this, until it is firmed and made a true API. They might find a better way to do it and change it, borking your app.

If the second, then it is a no brainer. Many homebrew are in the boat and Palm is using their apps as a template for the new APIs to be added.

You know you used an API that wasn't documented in the Mojo docs, and you knew this was a possibility. The last thing Palm needs is many people paying for your App and a future WebOS update killing it. You don't get blamed for using undocumented APIs, Palm gets in trouble for breaking your app. It stinks, but I can see Palm's side of this very easily.

So Palm denies one app for whatever the reason and suddenly the dev swears off ever involving himself with the platform again? I'm pretty sure this kind of thing happens hourly in the Apple camp...

I'm sorry to hear your application was denied. I can only imagine the frustration and letdown of all the hours of development seemingly 'going down the tubes'. Don't fret. Work with Palm. Release it as homebrew until it is accepted. Abandoning your product because Palm turned it down doesn't fix anything. It punishes the end-users that have done nothing wrong.

So does your app just use and undocumented API or does it also live in the com.palm app space?

If the former, I can see how they would not want to release an app that calls this, until it is firmed and made a true API. They might find a better way to do it and change it, borking your app.

If the second, then it is a no brainer. Many homebrew are in the boat and Palm is using their apps as a template for the new APIs to be added.

You know you used an API that wasn't documented in the Mojo docs, and you knew this was a possibility. The last thing Palm needs is many people paying for your App and a future WebOS update killing it. You don't get blamed for using undocumented APIs, Palm gets in trouble for breaking your app. It stinks, but I can see Palm's side of this very easily.

+1

Sucks abou the app, but it doesn't meet the requirements. Any way to get around the undocumented API?

Look, Palm has every right to control what goes in the App Catalog, and if this app - which looked awesome, BTW - didn't meet standards because of some undocumented API or whatever, so be it.

HOWEVER, this is also a company that is essentially hacking into iTunes on a technicality so their users have easy MediaSync. Like the OP, they could strictly follow the rules and implement iTunes syncing the way Blackberry does. Hell, they could even come up with an app of their own...I know, crazy thoughts, but bear with me. But they chose to go with the easiest, if not the most ethical route because they need solutions that work well NOW.

And with that being the case, blocking NANplayer from the App Catalog is a Costco family-sized portion of stupidity. The current media player is a joke for anyone who got used to extended media player functionality through iPhones or iPod Touches or even prior Treos with Pocket Tunes. If Palm doesn't have the resources to correct this, it's dumb to stand in the way of someone who does, even if they used an undocumented API. Even if they've signed up a big name third party media player, there's only upside to nourishing the efforts of developers putting in this sort of time of WebOS. Letting them in the App Catalog is an investment in the future. Period.

I agree with those that point out that the use of an undocumented API should be a concern for Palm. However, the way for them to address it should be to seek more information about how the app uses it and evaluate it based on that. Instead, their response is essentially "no thanks".

As I mentioned, Palm has allowed other independent developers to break the rules when it comes to undocumented APIs. Why not evaluate the app and decide whether or not to accept it or not? I could respect that, but they haven't seen any more of the app than any of you.

As far as an update potentially breaking the app, that sort of thing happens with countless apps in all operating systems. If Palm thinks it wise to not seed developer version of their updates before releasing them, then that's their problem. For example, Apple always releases a developer preview that gives their developers the opportunity to test and update their apps if necessary to maintain compatibility.

In any case, I will just release the app as Homebrew when it is finished. It is still in beta now and will take some time to complete. I'd rather not post it as a beta.

Look, Palm has every right to control what goes in the App Catalog, and if this app - which looked awesome, BTW - didn't meet standards because of some undocumented API or whatever, so be it.

HOWEVER, this is also a company that is essentially hacking into iTunes on a technicality so their users have easy MediaSync. Like the OP, they could strictly follow the rules and implement iTunes syncing the way Blackberry does. Hell, they could even come up with an app of their own...I know, crazy thoughts, but bear with me. But they chose to go with the easiest, if not the most ethical route because they need solutions that work well NOW.

And with that being the case, blocking NANplayer from the App Catalog is a Costco family-sized portion of stupidity. The current media player is a joke for anyone who got used to extended media player functionality through iPhones or iPod Touches or even prior Treos with Pocket Tunes. If Palm doesn't have the resources to correct this, it's dumb to stand in the way of someone who does, even if they used an undocumented API. Even if they've signed up a big name third party media player, there's only upside to nourishing the efforts of developers putting in this sort of time of WebOS. Letting them in the App Catalog is an investment in the future. Period.

What's the upside of blocking this app?

Preventing peed off people who purchased the app from blaming Palm when an update or change prevents the undocumented API from working properly. Showing people that the APP experiance on the PRE is closer to the hit or miss of win mobile than the confidence of the Apple App store experiance??

"When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"

PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.

I agree with those that point out that the use of an undocumented API should be a concern for Palm. However, the way for them to address it should be to seek more information about how the app uses it and evaluate it based on that. Instead, their response is essentially "no thanks".

As I mentioned, Palm has allowed other independent developers to break the rules when it comes to undocumented APIs. Why not evaluate the app and decide whether or not to accept it or not? I could respect that, but they haven't seen any more of the app than any of you.

As far as an update potentially breaking the app, that sort of thing happens with countless apps in all operating systems. If Palm thinks it wise to not seed developer version of their updates before releasing them, then that's their problem. For example, Apple always releases a developer preview that gives their developers the opportunity to test and update their apps if necessary to maintain compatibility.

In any case, I will just release the app as Homebrew when it is finished. It is still in beta now and will take some time to complete. I'd rather not post it as a beta.

So they rejected a beta, not even ready for use app? With undocumented API?

WHAT?!!!! Palm, you should WELCOME IT when others help you improve your device! What, should Microsoft ban Winamp because it released a media player far superior to WMP??? I'm VERY disappointed at this news.

I am with the minority here. I am THRILLED to see developers coming over to webos, and even more thrilled with the amount of time they have spent on some of these programs.

But (and I know how hard this is), you need to take a step back and look at it from Palm's perspective. You wrote a program for a beta platform, with a "beta" SDK (palm has admitted the SDK is anything but complete) and used an API that is not in the "okay" list yet. Of course Palm is going to reject the app "FOR NOW....." As was said before, if they decided to change the API or found an error, your app would be toast(along with all the Pre's that downloaded from the on board app catalog). If there was a security hole, mem leak, bug etc. PALM would be responsible, not you, and you would be on here complaining about how crappy Palm is for releasing a poor API.. Palm is still working the kinks out in the OS, hence why it is still on pretty tight restriction and constantly being updated. The last thing they need is to allow apps that run scripts they aren't ready for, have a problem arise, and not have the resources or time to correct it. They simply won't be able to fix all the OS problems if they allowed a massive user base(such as the app catalog that every owner has access to) to cause all sorts of unexpected issues while they try to debug the parts of the OS they have officially allowed access to. It would just be way too overwhelming for an infant os, and guarantee it will never fully mature. Everyone wants to forget PalmOS and how stitched/patched/Frankensteined it was, yet no one is willing to let them do it right. You can't have your cake and eat it to. Either play by the rules, and allow Palm to tweak and write the OS properly, adding allowable features in the SDK and letting developers dig deeper into the OS slowly with time, or rush it and end up with another PalmOS. One or the other.

I don't mean to come off unappreciative, which I am sure I did. I have done my fair share of programming, but got sick of replacing keyboards/monitors etc. I know the amount of time and effort you put into an app meant to help the community, and I am very appreciative of your efforts. You have done some great work, and I would LOVE to see you stick around and come up with some more apps, but you are coming off almost like a little spoiled kid being punished. Almost "I'm taking my ball and going home" syndrome. WebOS is an INCREDIBLE os, with vast potential (much more so than any other OS out there). We all need to calm down, let Palm do things the right way, and play by the rules. Let them get the OS squared away, and slowly allow us to delve deeper into the OS a little at a time. If we want to get ahead, and push the boundaries, that is what homebrew is for. Smaller user base, and Palm can use us to help fix future problems before the larger app catalog community has the same issues. This is how it should be. We pave the road for Palm, while they clean up the debris and properly tweak/smooth out the road for the public behind us while it is CLOSED and free of traffic. The only other option is to let the population of New York drive right behind the road workers, and try to quickly patch the road while everyone is honking and cursing to hurry it up. Quality or Quantity, you all decide. If the community chooses Quantity, consider Palm in the same boat it was in a month before the release of the Pre.

Palm never has, and never will be anything like Apple. If that was the case, they would have just started a new company (trust me, it probably would have been easier to ride on their own personal reputations than Palm's name) and ran it a different way. They have already allowed side loading, rooting, patching etc. to a small section of owners, without complaint. Heck, if anything they are using this community to help them (albeit 100% unofficially). I think they know darn well that not making webos a 100% open platform for developers once it is all squared away will be the demise of the company, and this OS is capable of some REALLY scary, break through stuff once the devs can really crack into it.

I know you feel like someone just shot your kid, but really, take it as constructive criticism. Finish the app, release it to Homebrew with an option to donate, and just play by the rules for now on. Maybe write some Android apps while keeping an eye on WebOS's SDK until it becomes more open and powerful if you don't want to run in the Homebrew scene or use the infant SDK. Palm really didn't do anything wrong here, and I am sure they will allow your app once that API is finalized and allowable.

Wow thats horrible, we are losing a great app (well getting it, but no further updates which I don't blame Bubble for, why spend time on a app that won't make it to the app store) and we are losing a very very talented developer.

Good luck with you future endeavors on android Bubble! Hopefully one day webos will be lucky to have you developing for it again

Preventing peed off people who purchased the app from blaming Palm when an update or change prevents the undocumented API from working properly. Showing people that the APP experiance on the PRE is closer to the hit or miss of win mobile than the confidence of the Apple App store experiance??

One word: Where?

One of Palm's recent updates FUBARed that app, and they simply contacted the developer and allowed them to submit a new version to account for the new OS version. Problem solved. Done in a night.

i just sold my palm pre so many things with this phone are bummers i'm sure all you know what those are sdk blows, app limits, now them blocking apps, loved it in many ways as well, but its not as open as i would have like it, and it needs time to grow and i dont want to be with it ill come back when its grown. going to htc hero when it comes out!!

So they rejected a beta, not even ready for use app? With undocumented API?

They have a special process for developers that were in the early access program. Developers are asked to presubmit their apps even if they aren't completed. The idea is that Palm can work with the developer to polish the app. So much for working with the developer.

BTW folks, the only use of the undocumented API is a simple read-only query that lists songs on the phone. The rest of the app relies on all the public APIs and services. Plenty of third party apps currently in the App Catalog use undocumented APIs. It's not like it's unheard of.

Let me be very clear. I will not be abandoning NaNplayer. I have no problem releasing it through Homebrew. Still, only a relatively small percentage of Pre users install Homebrew apps. Most probably don't even know they exist.

*sigh* I was reallllllly hoping Palm was going to be better about their app store than Apple, with their ridiculous "replicating functionality of the OS" crap.

C'mon Palm!

Lets all try to inundate Palm with comments/complaints early and try to nip this in the bud, maybe if there is enough outcry at the start of the app store we can encourage Palm not to make the same (IMO) mistakes Apple has made with their app store policies.