There is a lot to be said here, and as such I'm only going to go over what could be done to give the lacking classes a boost. Later on we can consider what could be done to even out some of the classes with an obvious advantage.

First and foremost, a change that I feel would make it so that classes that do not get dispel magic are not at such a severe disadvantage when leveling would be to take away the Sanctuary spell from all mobiles that themselves cannot cast it. Pre-wipe (the FIRST one) it was not as big of a deal due to players getting an entire spell list and obtaining Dispel Magic in their avatar levels. However now, post Hero most every mob in the game that offers remotely decent experience to a player has the spell of Sanctuary, leaving those who cannot dispel to fight the mobile for twice as long, expending many more resources, and facing a much more dangerous battle.

Secondly, with the advent of a decreased player base it would be nice to see Auto-Recharge items reinstated into the game. Yes, I may have a few Full-Heal items, or a few items that cast Sanctuary or Stoneskin, but if I only see players that can recharge them once every few days, and even then if they are off spending their mana or power stores in their own way and have no time for me, what is the point of me having such items?

Now, on to mechanics...

Skill additions

Keen eyeThis could either be an addition to Item lore, or be a skill given to classes with the backstab skill (including those who obtain it during avatar levels). It would give the user the ability to make a general assessment of whether or not an item might aid them in backstabbing or assassinating a target creature.

>look glovesBlack nether-crafted gloves appears to be made mostly of leather. It weighs about 3 pounds, and takes up a volume of about 3 pints. It would offer incredible protection for your hands. It would offer incredible stopping power for your hands. A legend says this item sets your dexterity. You think wearing this item would give you extremely good aim. You know this item is an extremely rare find.

You think wearing this item would barely increase your aim.You think wearing this item might increase your aim.You think wearing this item would give you good aim.You think wearing this item would give you very good aim.You think wearing this item would give you extremely good aim.You think wearing this item would give you remarkable aim.You think wearing this item would give you incredibly good aim.You think wearing this item would give you supreme aim.You think wearing this item would give you supernatural aim.You think wearing this item would give you ungodly aim.

Battle masteryThis would be an additional skill for Barbarians, Cavaliers, Paladins, and Warriors at level 80.Essentially, upon inspection of an item, one would be able to glean whether or not itwould aid them in melee combat. An experienced fighter would be able to note that a bevy of spikes attached to a shield or breastplate could prove quite useful in battle. This would be something noted when looking at weapons, as well. A sword may be crafted by the gods,but could be for decorative purposes, or it could have been crafted with the destruction of foes in mind.

>look bracersA pair of cold-iron bracers covered in spikes appears to be made mostly of iron. It weighs about 5 pounds and takes up a volume of about 5 pints. It would offer incredible protection for your hands. It would offer incredible protection for your arms. It would offer ungodly stopping power for your arms. It would offer incredible stopping power for your hands. You think this item would do incredible damage to an enemy combatant. You know this item is an extremely rare find.

You think this item would do barely any damage to an enemy combatant.You think this item might do damage to an enemy combatant.You think this item would do good damage to an enemy combatant.You think this item would do very good damage to an enemy combatant.You think this item would do extreme damage to an enemy combatant.You think this item would do remarkable damage to an enemy combatant.You think this item would do incredible damage to an enemy combatant.You think this item would do supreme damage to an enemy combatant.You think this item would do supernatural damage to an enemy combatant.You think this item would do ungodly damage to an enemy combatant.

And on to classes...

BarbarianIncreased weapon proficiency learning.

Stopping power increased by 10% of bonus to damage from items.If a Barbarian wears items totaling +20 to damage they would receive +2 to their stopping power. A strong offense is the best defense. This would help even out the loss of survivability when suiting up in gear which has a bonus to damage, which more often than not tends to be lacking in stopping power.

BardHaggleA bard attempting to sell items to a shop would be able to use their Haggle skill to charm the shopkeep into selling an item for cheaper, or buying an item for more. This skill would have a limit of five uses per sale.

>Haggle sword sell 10000A weaponsmith says, 'I won't pay you more than 5000 gold pieces for a sword.'Do you want to sell a sword for 5000 gold pieces?>no

>Haggle sword sell 9000A weaponsmith says, 'I won't pay you more than 6000 gold pieces for a sword.'Do you want to sell a sword for 6000 gold pieces?>no

>Haggle sword sell 8000A weaponsmith says, 'I won't pay you more than 7000 gold pieces for a sword.'Do you want to sell a sword for 7000 gold pieces?>no

>Haggle sword sell 7500A weaponsmith says, 'I won't pay you more than 6000 gold pieces for a sword.'Do you want to sell a sword for 6000 gold pieces?>no

Dispel good obtained after or at the same time as dispel evil. Warriors do not get a spell to damage good aligned foes until level 248, putting them at a disadvantage compared to a large number of other classes. This disadvantage is even more-so noticeable in evil and neutral aligned warriors, especially in player versus player combat.

Bonus to stopping power every 50th level. A warrior should be the go-to class for soaking up damage while others lay down the onslaught from behind.

An extra attack per prompt obtained at level 200.Due to their limited spell list, and every class obtaining Weapon Proficiency: All and most obtaining virtually all of a warriors most used skills, (kick, sewing, riding, metallurgy one and two, bash, mounted combat, carving, armory, and weaponry) warriors become increasingly inferior post-hero. This may help even things out.

A character of a race with a bonus to any one stat should be able to carry that stat over to their improved stat cap. IE a Half Cloud Giant should have a maximum of 28 strength and 28 Constitution, and a Moon Elf should have a maximum of 27 Intelligence and 26 Dexterity. I do not however feel that a character should suffer from a stat lower than 25 due to their racial statistics.

Lastly, it seems that stat gains during mortal levels have little rhyme or reason. With 25 constitution, 25 luck, and +1hp per level (and I leveled with those stats nearly all my levels), I saw hp gains of as little as 3. With raw (unmodified) constitution (21 for a half cloud giant), raw luck (18), and +1hp per level, I still saw hp gains of as little as 3. It would be nice to see constitution and luck offer a static bonus rather than the possibility of a bonus. This would also offer some more balance to classes and races.*edit: By a static bonus, I mean something such as 12 constitution would offer +1, 14 would offer +2, 16 would offer +3. Perhaps static was a poor choice of wording.

Nice post, thanks for the input. I actually just added 2 new bard songs (frosty whisper and burning howl), made 2 other bard songs (ice breath and fire breath) much more powerful... and... added some new levels... you should now be able to go above Demigod.

I've been insanely busy with work lately but I believe I'll start having some time to play around with the code more soon, I'm thinking spells and skills are where I'd like to work. We'll see.

Please continue posting these types of thoughts, they really help when I'm looking to come up with ways to make the game better.

Here's some ideas... I don't think they're too outlandish, considering the power of some other classes. Also, a lot of these encourage a Warrior to use a shield which drastically reduces their damage output while often times not offering enough of a benefit to be an improvement over wielding a two handed weapon, so I don't think they are too overpowered. Moreover, they'd add a few things for Warriors to do besides sit there and wait for the battle to be over.

Warrior

Counter (Passive)Lvl 85If a warrior has just parried an attack they have a small chance to gain an extra attack against their opponent in the following round.

Parry (Passive)Lvl 50When wielding a weapon a Warrior gains a small chance to parry physical attacks.

Shield Bash Lvl 76 (10 levels higher than dispel magic)A Warrior may use his or her shield to bash an opponent to the ground causing moderate damage with a chance to dispel one spell. If an opponent is resistant to being bashed, they may still suffer the damage and be dispelled, but will not be knocked to the ground. The success of dispelling a spell or ability is based on level.

command: replaces the bash command when using a shield

Spell ReflectLvl 94 (same level as disintegrate)When using a shield a Warrior may prepare him or herself for an oncoming spell, reflecting some or all of the spell damage back on the caster. Success based on level. Usable in battle.

command: reflect

Sunder Armor Lvl 52 (same level as sanctuary)A warrior may sunder an opponents armor reducing their armor rating and stopping power for a short amount of time. Does not stack.

command: sunder

Sword and Board (Passive)Lvl 70When wielding a one handed weapon and using a shield a Warrior gains a bonus to damage and becomes difficult to knock down.

I love the first post! Although these last skills sound almost exactly as the skills in World of Warcraft for Warriors as well as their talents. I like some of them though I am not sure of the point on the rest of them. Seems like it it giving warriors a little bit more then other melee classes. As well as giving warriors an even higher bonus on some of them even without a shield. Not trying to talk down the idea's because at least your thinking. A shield using warrior tank is basically almost unheard of in DL and has never been something even viable really because of the loss of so much damage...I think more ways to make it playable would be awesome. Although I do not think making a shield using warrior into something that does big amounts of damage or anywhere near half of what a 2 handing using warrior does is a good idea by any means. Gaining the stopping and maybe adding in skills to make the shield user a viable tank I completely think rules such as your sunder idea. Although adding any damage I see as just handing the shield user more stops and really not much a negative at all from using a 2 hander.

>>Although these last skills sound almost exactly as the skills in World of Warcraft for Warriors as well as their talents.Try looking at the skills, feats, and talents of nearly any fantasy game and you're going to find that just about everything is used everywhere else. I was simply trying to give warriors the ability to do useful things in combat (whereas the majority of their current skills are non-combat related) without giving them spells.

>>Seems like it it giving warriors a little bit more then other melee classes.I'm trying to get Warriors on par with Clerics and Magic-Users. Other classes need a boost too. Perhaps you can come up with some ideas?

>>As well as giving warriors an even higher bonus on some of them even without a shield.We don't want to rope warriors into solely being a tank class, so of course they need some bonuses that affect them when wielding two-handed weapons as well. Currently they are no different in physical combat than any other class that gets Warrior skills due to Weapon Proficiency: All. Clerics, Druids, and Mages end up with the same amount of attacks as a Warrior at level 250, and end up able to wield the same type of weapons, making them superior classes when combined with the spells they get after level 50 that are unique to them (such as Blade Barrier, Dispel Magic, Fireshield, Sanctuary, and Stoneskin).

>>Although I do not think making a shield using warrior into something that does big amounts of damage or anywhere near half of what a 2 handing using warrior does is a good idea by any means.It's not about making them do big amounts of damage, it's about making them on par with someone wielding a two-handed weapon. Think of it this way: If you put two Warriors of the same skill level with the exact same stats and character level in an arena and gave one a two-handed weapon, and one a shield and one-handed weapon, it should be as close to a stalemate as possible. That is not the case right now. Though people may do it on the MUD, a warrior wouldn't really grab a couple of gelatinous cubes, slap on a shield and not fight back against something clawing/slashing/biting at him. I don't think it's too outrageous to suggest that they receive ways to effectively damage an opponent while wearing a shield and wielding a small weapon. We've all seen movies about gladiators and warriors. The guy with the shield and sword doesn't just stand there, he slams them with his shield, tries to disarm them, and uses every tactic at his disposal to get the upper hand.

I know that the majority of active players are playing classes that have no need for an overhaul, and that melee has been pretty low on the totem pole from the start. I get it. It'd be nice to hear back from some people. Give your opinion. Something. Anything. I feel like I'm constantly talking to a wall.

*note Yes, I realize that Nezmar and Strolem have respond to this some time ago, but I know other people browse the forums too. Lets get some input. I know I'm pushing for warrior changes, because I've played a warrior since the first player wipe. I know that other classes deserve a major change as well. I'm trying to vocalize ideas for the class that I play. And just because I've stated a majority of ideas for Warrior changes doesn't mean that these couldn't be replicated or fitted for other classes. Honestly, any of the shield related skills could work for Cavaliers and Paladins as well. Yes, I'm leaving Barbarians out of that mix right now because they shouldn't be soaking up damage. They're berserkers. Barbarians drink the koolaid and go crazy on damage. They shouldn't wear shields. tl;dr More input, you lazy players. I love ya, but c'mon! Lets get some ideas going.

I wanted to suggest, blabber, whatever about classes and suggestions and this looks as good a place as any. I'm with the above ideas,very good. With how high people currently are, I think a mob over 100 who pops sanced should stay that way but deff agree that mobs at lower levels who have no ability to cast it should not come sanced.I am on board for all the skills changes for a warriors and barbarians. They can't use spells, they need to be able to fight better. They are more skilled at battle than other classes. Many of those skills could go for a barbarian as well. Parry should be a passive skill that you see, kinda like a ninja and his kicks that go off. Counter attack is really great, gives them a random chance to immediately counter when they're hit. Shield bash having a chance to dispel a sanc? I don't know about that, but deff think it should do damage and then shields could have added damage for the shield bash skill. For example a large spiked shield would do more shield bash damage than a small silver buckler. If one didn't want to add shield bash skill, just add more damage to bash when wearing a shield. Make warriors consider wearing a shield to get that extra damage on a bash. Sword and board probably the best idea on there. You've got a big shield on your arm and someone tries to bash you but you can deflect it with your shield and they fall down instead. Warriors needs some str to help becoming a main for tanking again. They need to be able to do more damage than the average joe with all their weapons. I love all the new skills for classes, but others are falling behind now. It's mainly best to make a class that can summon a steed or wind dragon.

Now to talk about clerics.Animate Dead.I enjoy the new fully healed zombies, it's so great to have it now. I think maybe 10 more mana, there should be a greater animate dead skill that makes them a little bigger and makes them come sanced. One would still have to take corpses around with em. Zombies that big with a sanc would save the mana to have to sanc those that were created and poped with high hp. One might still have to try 2/3 zombies to get one with decent enough hp. Right now at level 140 I can tag zombies with on average 450 - 800 hp, fully healed but no sanc. With an advanced animate dead maybe add a min of 500 hp and their sanc. Steeds and wind dragons are a great additions and zombies can't really compare cause they're just a corpse to do your bidding. Just name them a large zombie. Blah blah blah Standing here is a large zombie (charmed).

Sacrifice Corpse.I'm a cleric, good align, devout follower of a God. I wish to sacrifice those I kill, being it is after all supposed to be rp, I should be able to sacrifice a corpse to my God and gain favor with that God in the form of mana. Mana is an unseen force all around us and a God should be able to refill a bit back so I can tend to my wounds from the battle. Randomly make it say 10 to 100 points? Very rarely the 100 points, otherwise I could go around sacrificing small corpses in a matter of seconds and get all my mana back. I wonder if it would be possible to make it based on a 1/3 of level +. Say I'm 100 killing bees and sacrificing them, I should not be permitted to land a lucky 100 mana back for a bee. "This sacrifice is not worthy of your Gods' attention." My god won't care much about me sacrificing a tiny little animal. He want's critters that are a higher challenge to me. So if I was 300, he'd need a level 100 mob or higher to consider the corpse as a proper sacrifice. Or even 1/4 would be okay since the 100 returned mana would be a rarity. I can then in turn use the mana I've gained from the sacrifice to do my job and heal the wounds of those in the party or those I meet along my travels.

Skills that could use a tweak:Armor - allow it to add 1 stop to body (or stop all) and max the armor number into the negs? Yeah I think that's right.

Haste - randomly adds a number of dex to get someone to 18. Cast-able on others as well.Improved haste -Adds improved dex like improved str adds well, str. Cast-able on others.

Bless - needs to be a bit stronger. I don't really see a difference in what it does.

Protection from Evil or Good - needs an increase and cast-able on others. I don't really even know what it does but I never noticed a difference when having it or not.

Room Sanc - Costs 150 mana and sancs the entire room including yourself. This would be the same as 6 sancs otherwise but if sacrifice corpse was added, this would be a benefit when grouping. Adding spells that do more and cost more mana would be okay.

Divine Healing - an ability to direct a heal at yourself or a target and heal them slowly over time. Say... 50 mana and can do up to 800 hp over 45 seconds. The higher the skill level, the stronger the heals are. Ticks off like cure criticals.

I'd have to look at what levelsI get everything to be able to suggest what levels those skills should start to kick.

Adding some sort of stopping power to Armor would create far too great an advantage at earlier levels, but having an Improved Armor spell that does might be nice.

I agree that there should be an improved haste spell that adds to improved dexterity.

Bless (I believe) adds to your hit and damage by 1. Perhaps it doesn't need to be stronger all at once, but increases with levels. Maybe +1 for every 50 levels? The problem here lies with the ability for a high level character to cast it on a low level character and them gaining immense bonuses against their low level targets.

I'm not sure that there needs to be a room sanctuary spell. Sanctuary is already pretty buff. Pun intended.

Some of the following ideas might be repeats or rethought ideas from prior posts.

Fireshield damage decreased or set to a fixed amount. How hard you throw a punch into an open flame does not affect how bad it hurts you, but how long you hold your hand in that fire does. This would offer balance and also encourage players to group up against larger foes nearing end-game levels instead of everyone searching for fireshield items so they can take them down by themselves easily.

For the items with bonus’ like damage, or backstabbing, or assassination: can’t you only add up to what 7 points? The list should be adjusted appropriately.

I really like the ideas for the damage proficiencies. Do more damage, gain more stops, makes sense. It’s like the mob is getting such an *** whooping that it’s having difficulty fighting back. (Translated into more stops for the player). “This item does 4 stop hands but with all the damage I’ve got on, when I wear it I get an additional 1 stop all in natural abilities.”

I don’t see Haggle being too viable. Wear more charisma, get better prices. Instead maybe a spell they can cast to give improved charisma to themselves. I would say castable on others, but eh, it'll be another little bonus for being a bard = you can get better prices than the next guy.

Monks already do incredible damage when a mob is stunned but when the mob wakes up they take an *** kicking at times. Damage gear doesn’t have great stops as you said. I would suggest that as they learn their defenses, upon learning it to inexpert or even just once they hit that level, they gain 1 stop all because obviously they’re going to go train the skill, but then have to master the skill still for their passive dodging.

I like the idea of stats going over 25 with your racials and LOVE the constitution adding a STATIC amount of hp. Could use wisdom the same way for mana, Intel for power, Dex for moves, Charisma for songs. Then whatever luck or plus hp/level etc would be added on top of that. Luck being the random number there. I hate seeing a level and I get 2 hp; Meaning I was lucky to get 1 hp then my 1 hp for having hp/level and I’m wearing charisma and luck uppers. You’d have to look at the score ranking for each skill. Give a bonus for certain rankings, maybe maxing out at static 5 for having 25 in that skill? The only chance players have to get all the bonus’ they can is under 100 because once you’re 100 it’s plus 1 to all, plus your hp/level etc and it’s 25 to all every ranking (25 levels).

I don’t see shield bash dispelling a mob but it should deff do damage. Maybe this would be comparable to a shriek. The more skilled you are with it, the more damage it does, maxing around 200 or so because after all you did just bash the mob and are about to lay down some more damage. A 200 hp bash against a 15000 hp mob that you and other people are whooping up on, seems appropriate.

Good ideas on passive skills. I think there should be passives for all classes. Pay to learn it, under a passive skills list, and you always have it.Higher bonus’ for stops for Barbarian and Warriors always a great idea since they’re typically the tanker but have been slightly removed from that roll with recent additions to other classes. I’m sure it’s disheartening to see a Cleric tanking a big *** mob.

When you first get Full Heal you’re not very skilled with it and it’s a big drain on mana and forget about recharging it until you’re skilled. It’s a drain on the caster to use their magical abilities but when they successfully cast it, it should still fully heal them. If it’s not a full heal then it’ll have to be a diff type of healing. I’m down with upping the rates of the lower level healing spells as you level. Usually cheaper to just cast full heal on someone that is 300 or so hp short than to stand there and heal them a handful of times.

Whirlwind, very nice. Increased damage to kick. Adding damage to bash. Passive skills. Wounding strike. Speaking of, the damage using a mixed poison does needs to be upped. I’ve never bothered to learn it because it’s never seemed to be worth it. The poison spell… eh. It could use a tweak as it’s mastered but not be anywhere near the damage of a master poison mixer with high level poison ingredients.

When you’re fireshieled you’re taking a beating since the mob you’re up against is dealing all it’s damage to you because you’re not sanced. Go up against Amhearst with a fireshield and if you get bashed you’re lucky to get up and make it out of there. People usually have someone standing by to recall them if they get bashed. It still takes a handful of full heals to kill it too. A high level characters fireshield should do more damage; you’re a master at casting the thing.

I do suppose Haggle, upon further reflection is kind of a hair-brained idea. I was trying to think of neat things for bards at a time when bards weren't really a worthwhile class. Now, they are. In fact, a few of their songs do ludicrous damage, perhaps even too much, at least for their level. Perhaps they should scale slower?

As far as monks go, shouldn't they be taking a butt kicking when the mob isn't stunned? Aren't monks supposed to be the dudes in robes and flip flops standing behind the big guy in armor unleashing a flurry of blows? You also need to consider the fact that it's not just the monk that's getting this absurd bonus damage, it's whoever else is in the group with them. Perhaps a 'dodge' skill that could be learned by monks (and other classes like assassin, thief, and ninja) would be better in place. They're not meant to take hits.

I'm not saying that a high level fireshield shouldn't do more damage, the problem is that the damage dealt to the attacker is based on the damage they do to you. That's not the case with even blade barrier, and it makes more sense for blade barrier's damage to be that way. I mean, punching your fist into a garbage disposal is going to hurt a lot more than punching through an open flame. I'm sure at some point or another you've waved your hand over an open flame for a brief moment. As long as you don't hold it over it, it doesn't hurt you. A melee attacker will be dealt more damage by the fireshield than they themselves can deal with autoattacks. Add a caster's highly damaging spells and they have no chance, even with a lucky bash. And as far as big mobs like Amhearst... They're supposed to be tough. Fireshield should not be the work around for killing them. You should want, and even need to have sanctuary cast upon yourself and allied with a league of adventurers to take them down.

I guess long story short is, the idea shouldn't be "I'm so flipping awesome solo that I can destroy everything!" it should be, "I can handle myself on my own, and I complement other classes nicely in a group".

[quote="Aldeis" I guess long story short is, the idea shouldn't be "I'm so flipping awesome solo that I can destroy everything!" it should be, "I can handle myself on my own, and I complement other classes nicely in a group".[/quote]

I couldn't agree more.

_________________We can MUD if you want to, we can leave your friends behind. Because your friends don't MUD, and if they don't MUD, well, they're no friends of mine.

I would like to see a blocking skill given to Warriors, Paladins, and Cavaliers.

When learned they have chance of blocking an attack with an equipped shield negating a percentage of damage received. This would give shields a prominent use in the game and actually differentiate who would be a suitable tank to take against the big mob. Let alone making it a viable use over just pawning over every big 2h weapon you can get your hands on.

For easier use I'll use basic static numbers.

Mob attacks every time for 100 damage.Block chance is 20% at maximum level.Block absorption is 45% of damage received.

Warrior blocks an incoming attack.You block an incoming attack.

So in turn instead of receiving a full 100 damage from the mob, you would instead receive 55 damage.

Your thoughts?

_________________Hey dewd, don't be afraid.
You were made to play DL better.
The minute you're in your character's skin.
Then you begin to roleplay better.

Pilfer skill for thieves - would let a thief try to steal an item on the shop list, minus the consignment shops. If caught multiple times, very likely would then become a criminal with the shopkeep so it's a risky choice to chance it.

Snatch skill for thieves - innate. People can't see thieves pick up anything from a room, or get anything from their containers unless they have that skill that allows them to see bonus hidden exits etc.

I still like shield skills. See the ideas above.

Kick bonus' on items. If I have the kick skill, and hit someone with big spiked boots, thereshould be a bonus damage to that kick.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot post attachments in this forum