Oh yes, when the farm subsidies are gone; the seas are fished out; the trade barriers are up; prices have gone through the roof; all your 'ex-pats' living in Spain, Umbria, the Dordoigne are suddenly no better than the reviled asylum seekers, 'foreigners' trying to make a life in someone else's country; you're stood in the queue at passport control for three hours with all the other 'people like them'; the people who pick your strawberries can't get work permits and the feckless bone idle won't take the job but here won't be a farm because it went bust ; when the Tories have driven your employment rights into the dust you'll be working more hours for less than they used to pay the Irish...

Some of them would have have you believe we could go EAA - EU Lite - like the Norwegians where we pay in but have no say - WHAT?

It'll be so great in Boris' new Jerusalem...

I don't want to be bossed about by rogues and the swivel-eyed brigade but they're still in the government I didn't vote for. Little as I like that weasel b@5t@rd Cameron he should have stood his ground and forced the 'b@5t@rds' who wanted to campaign for out to resign their cabinet posts.

Take a look at the c*nts that are campaigning for ’out' - fiddling their expenses and feathering their own nests, creating tax breaks for corporations and the rich, looking after their pals in the banks and their old school buddies whilst screwing down on assistance for the disabled and working poor.

There are far too many unknowns and dangers in the world to go down this route. The EU may not be perfect. It needs reformed, granted. But it's kept the peace in the region for 70 years. The world hasn't been this unstable since the fall of the Berlin Wall and now with the increasing Russian resurgence and the threat of militant Salafist insurgency from the countries in the Middle East which we destabilised through reckless, ill conceived foreign policy. It's time to think very carefully about our place in the world and it will always be better to be inside where you can at least try influence the future direction than outside on the fringes.

Our great wartime leader was also a great advocate of the European project -

‘We must build a kind of United States of Europe.. The structure of the United States of Europe, if well and truly built, will be such as to make the material strength of a single state less important.. If at first all the States of Europe are not willing or able to join the Union, we must nevertheless proceed to assemble and combine those who will and those who can.’ - Winston Curchill, Zurich, 1946.

"Our dilemma is that we hate change and love it at the same time; what we really want is for things to remain the same but get better."

rosscla wrote:Oh yes, when the farm subsidies are gone; the seas are fished out; the trade barriers are up; prices have gone through the roof; all your 'ex-pats' living in Spain, Umbria, the Dordoigne are suddenly no better than the reviled asylum seekers, 'foreigners' trying to make a life in someone else's country; you're stood in the queue at passport control for three hours with all the other 'people like them'; the people who pick your strawberries can't get work permits and the feckless bone idle won't take the job but here won't be a farm because it went bust ; when the Tories have driven your employment rights into the dust you'll be working more hours for less than they used to pay the Irish...

Some of them would have have you believe we could go EAA - EU Lite - like the Norwegians where we pay in but have no say - WHAT?

It'll be so great in Boris' new Jerusalem...

I don't want to be bossed about by rogues and the swivel-eyed brigade but they're still in the government I didn't vote for. Little as I like that weasel b@5t@rd Cameron he should have stood his ground and forced the 'b@5t@rds' who wanted to campaign for out to resign their cabinet posts.

Take a look at the c*nts that are campaigning for ’out' - fiddling their expenses and feathering their own nests, creating tax breaks for corporations and the rich, looking after their pals in the banks and their old school buddies whilst screwing down on assistance for the disabled and working poor.

There are far too many unknowns and dangers in the world to go down this route. The EU may not be perfect. It needs reformed, granted. But it's kept the peace in the region for 70 years. The world hasn't been this unstable since the fall of the Berlin Wall and now with the increasing Russian resurgence and the threat of militant Salafist insurgency from the countries in the Middle East which we destabilised through reckless, ill conceived foreign policy. It's time to think very carefully about our place in the world and it will always be better to be inside where you can at least try influence the future direction than outside on the fringes.

Our great wartime leader was also a great advocate of the European project -

‘We must build a kind of United States of Europe.. The structure of the United States of Europe, if well and truly built, will be such as to make the material strength of a single state less important.. If at first all the States of Europe are not willing or able to join the Union, we must nevertheless proceed to assemble and combine those who will and those who can.’ - Winston Curchill, Zurich, 1946.

The heart says out. The EU has grown from a trade agreement into a country called Europe. It has an insatiable appetite for power and those that run it won't rest until it has the sort of institutions and power currently only associated with nation states. It's elites have dithered and failed completely to deal with pretty much every crisis that has beset them from immigration to the dumping of Chinese steel to economic slumps. Fraud is endemic from top to bottom including the multi billion single currency. Civil servants who questioned Greek finances in the run up to the single currency were threatened with the sack and told to rewrite their reports.

But..

The head says in. The EU is one of the largest economic groups in the world. To walk away from that would be dangerous in the extreme. The City of London is the world centre for finance. That won't last long if it's trades with the EU are subject to tariffs. They'll just move to Frankfurt or Paris. Exporters will find it harder to sell into Europe and the decline of our manufacturing base could accelerate. The most worrying aspect is that I just don't trust the Tories. Free from the restraining hand of EU social policy the last vestiges of worker rights will be gone within 24 hours.

Never believe any politician on the issue of immigration. The labour market, like all markets, is subject to the laws of supply and demand. The Tories don't want to limit immigration. Access to a limitless supply of the desperate and poor is too big a temptation for them. Instead of "expensive" Europeans, employers could bring in properly cheap labour from Pakistan or Africa. Free movement has already been used to crush the working class. They aren't about to give up on that cash cow.

Turning our back on Europe, the biggest market in the world, would be economic suicide. The British Empire is no more. Any trade agreements drawn up with countries from the former commonwealth would be a one way street. What the hell does the likes of India need to buy from us?

IN means unfettered access to the UK from ANYONE with a EU passport. That idiot Merkel invited millions without reference to the rest of us. If (sorry WHEN) Turkey is given EU membership (along with £6 billion of OUR money), where do you think they will be heading?

Look up TAHARRUSH on youtube videos- this appears to be the local muslim "game"- look at the vid of that European female newscaster being gang raped- fancy more of that in UK?

Think about Rochdale; Oxford; Bristol; London.

Do you really think Europe will refuse to trade with us?

Do you really think "The City" will give up its Number 1 Financial position?

Did we manage and prosper pre- EU?

Like being dictated to by some faceless individual in Brussels or a mad woman in Germany?