Post by ccrobbins on Sept 2, 2005 21:31:18 GMT -5

I have no clue if I agree or not. I was only stating that you should not flame someone for simply asking the question. The way I see it is you were interested enough to look into this thread that it deserved more than the " come on people" it received. If you think the BW is not a good Falconry bird it is only because nobody uses it, not because you know it's not. Before the RT was used as an app. bird nobody flew them either. My point is that you cannot say they suck unless you have flown them.........No?

Now, also take into consideration that I know absolutely nothing about them...Nor am I a falconer as of yet. I am only providing the argument that unless you have flown them then how can you just shrug them off? I have the feeling and I truely believe that there is still a lot to know about which raptors can be used and which cannot. I just don't think anyone has figured out how to fit into their style yet, not that it is easy.

Post by demarest on Sept 3, 2005 0:32:16 GMT -5

Youre right about the redtail. However the difference is that the red tail hunts rabbits in the wild and is one of the most desired rabbit hawks as we can see from its succes in the wild and on the fist. The bwh has most undesirable hunting habits in the wild, is a broadwing yet takes the quarry of a small falcon, and has the size feet to go with it. that's another thing: some of the main reasons for american k's popularity is its size and hunting style( both things the bw lacks)and the assets they provide in Urban hawking. in short th AK(american kestrel that is, not the AK-47 kalishnekov)is extremely practical.One of the reasons(i've read)that many falconers do not fly golden eagles is that you can take much of the same quarry with a bird that weighs a lot less and does not have the anger management problems of an eagle. The same applies to a bw, in a sense( though they don't have anger problems.). other birds take the same quarries more succesfully in the wild. Thats what falconry is: the only field sport that uses a WILD ANIMAL to take quarry. just because you can get a songbird to take seeds from your hand does not mean it is not wild.The term "Manning" does not really mean getting a bird accustome to "Man" but a single man. really they only tolerate you; they are not truely tame. That is why we can learn so much from a wild bird about how it would act were it captive, hence my statements regarding the comparisons of wild american k's to the wild bwh.please understand so that you may stop making the same point over again: I AM NOT SAYING BWH'S SUCK. ALL I AM SAYING IS THAT THEY ARE NOT THE BEST ON THEIR QUARRIES,(accepting the crayfish) MOST PRACTICALL, OR MOST ACCESSIBLE BIRD TO FLY. you can't condemn any bird without flying it, but you can compare it without flying it, based on it's history in falconry and in the wild. Neither am i condemning blueT for starting this thread, i am only stating very reasonably and with facts, past and present, that i think this bird has little or possibly no practical use in falconry. I rest my case.

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." - Thomas Jefferson

Post by mark on Mar 31, 2006 5:29:46 GMT -5

RW, basically your argument seems to be "why use the BW if there is something better". But this type of logic doesn't satisfy most falconers, and it certainly doesn't align very well with your high praise of NA kestrels. The same argument could easily be used for kestrels. Why not hunt with a merlin?

I would be impressed with someone who could hunt "real" quarry with a BW---it would probably be quite challenging. But isn't the challenge of a hunt something that makes hunting worthwhile.

Post by colohen on Apr 1, 2006 16:34:11 GMT -5

from Webster's }Art\art 1: skill acquired by experience or study 2: a branch of learning ; esp: one of the humanities3: an occupation requiring knowledge or skill4: the use of skill and imagination in the production of things of beauty; also : works so producedFal-con \ fal-ken 1: A HAWK trained for use in falconry 2: any of various swift long-winged long-tailed hawks having a notched beak and usu. inhabiting open areasFal-con-ry \ fal-ken-re 1: the art or training HAWKS to hunt in cooperation with a person 2: the sport of hunting with HAWKSGame \ gam 6: animals hunted for sport or foodAn-i-mal \ a-ne-mel 1: any of a kingdom of living things typically differing from plants in capacity for active movement , in rapid response to stimulation , and in lack of cellulose cell walls 2: a lower animal as distinguished from humansSport \ sport 1: to amuse oneself In retro-spective ; In the art of falconry , it does not matter what type falcon , be it a American kestrel , harris hawk , owl ;D or golden eagle , as long as it can be trained to take game for sport ! If you wont to catch snails with a kite , If your State has no objections , and you think you would like to try and train her , HAVE FUN !!As for my self when it comes to falconry , I think a little like the Arabic , if the game is not suited for the table , get another HAWK ! ;D As for some one flying a broad-wing , they fly kestrels don't they !!