Do i need to "speak" fluent JS before i can start using and working with frameworks like angular? Or is the "basics" enough?

felgall
—
2014-02-24T20:43:12Z —
#2

The more you know of JavaScript the easier it will be to learn frameworks. I normally recommend learning JavaScript to at least an intermediate level before learning a framework. That means that you can understand what the framework commands are doing but might not know quite enough to be able to write an equivalent framework yourself.

solidcodes
—
2014-02-25T07:05:04Z —
#3

You must understand OOP, prototyping, closure.Design pattern and Code Factoring are optional. (advance)

Pullo
—
2014-02-25T07:38:58Z —
#4

Find a problem that would be well solved by using a framework, then try to solve it by using a framework.If you keep procrastinating and saying "Oh, but I need to know x, y and z before I can do anything" then you'll never be ready.Plus, if you come unstuck when using said framework, you'll have an idea of what went wrong and what you need to learn before you can advance.

1119
—
2014-02-25T12:05:07Z —
#5

Frameworks are really designed for lazy coders and those who are not proficient at programming, as in not knowing enough javaScript to deal with the problem.

While to many a framework is the bees knees, in my opinion they are not, why load up hundreds of lines of javaScript coding to perform a very simple task that could be easily coded in several lines of code? Sure your viewpoint may be swayed with the simplistic of a single or couple of lines of functions that a frame work presents but load up a framework to see that it is a large file that will impact on your site being able to load quickly and efficiently.

You would be better off putting your time and effort in to learning to use the various javascript components and crafting your site code the time honored way.

Pullo
—
2014-02-25T12:16:55Z —
#6

Are you confusing libraries (such as jQuery) with frameworks (such as Ember/Angular)?

fretburner
—
2014-02-25T14:05:47Z —
#7

111 said:

Frameworks are really designed for lazy coders and those who are not proficient at programming, as in not knowing enough javaScript to deal with the problem.

Hmm, I'd agree that frameworks can become a crutch for those learning development and they can definitely be used inappropriately (how often do we see libraries such as jQuery loaded up just to some simple DOM manipulation?)

Frameworks are useful when working on larger projects where you'd otherwise find yourself writing a lot of the same boilerplate code every time. They are also beneficial in team environments, providing a consistent structure across projects and allowing other developers to work on your code without having to learn how you've structured your app.

As with all tools though, you need to evaluate which ones fit in with your preferred ways of working.

sg707
—
2014-03-07T22:59:17Z —
#8

111 said:

Frameworks are really designed for lazy coders and those who are not proficient at programming, as in not knowing enough javaScript to deal with the problem.

I must be the laziest programmer in the world as I embrace frameworks. Less time re-inventing the wheel and more time writing business logic.

1119
—
2014-03-08T12:34:21Z —
#9

sg707 said:

I must be the laziest programmer in the world as I embrace frameworks. Less time re-inventing the wheel and more time writing business logic.

The problem with frameworks or libraries is that they stifle innovation and individualism at the cost of speed of build and you are reliant on the code working bug free. It takes one bug to bring your house of cards tumbling and you have to wait for a fix... At least if you build your own, you can debug and put right what went wrong.

sg707
—
2014-03-13T21:49:49Z —
#10

111 said:

The problem with frameworks or libraries is that they stifle innovation and individualism at the cost of speed of build and you are reliant on the code working bug free. It takes one bug to bring your house of cards tumbling and you have to wait for a fix... At least if you build your own, you can debug and put right what went wrong.

I'd try to have a debate with you but I'm pretty sure you won't change your mind no matter what I say. It's kind of like TV Controller causes people to be lazy. With your argument, it can be said "The problem with TV Controller is that they stifle body movements at the cost of health and you are reliant on the controller to do your physical work. It takes one disease to kill a person and you may have to go through surgery. At least if you decide to use your body instead of remote, you can be more healthy and be more active then inactive"

I still use my remote controller and promote lazism

Pullo
—
2014-03-14T06:58:05Z —
#11

sg707 said:

I still use my remote controller and promote lazism

lol me, too.Lazy is good (at least as far as programming goes).

1119
—
2014-03-14T18:35:09Z —
#12

You can not get away from the fact that you are reliant on others code, if anything goes wrong, you have no way of solving the error yourself as you won't know where the glitch / bug is.

You also have the issue of payload, why load 90kb a time per page load when your needs per page may only extend to 3 or 4kb? The excessive payload does not justify the use of one.

I TBH really don't like frameworks / libraries like JQuery and I am not about to change my mind, if the JQuery methods were suddenly incorporated in to the browser as part of its makeup then I would make the effort to look at using them, however, as they are not, not likely to be, they shall remain safely tucked up where they deserve to be, in the trash pile.