If Rafa wins "as many as he wants" he would most def be the GOAT. If he finishes with 16 or 17 you would have a 50/50 split for Rafa/Roger most likely, if Rafa finishes with more it would be a high majority for Nadal.

Point blank, end of discussion. This loss is no different than losing in a semi....nobody cares who made semi's, only who wins the title.

I agree with your stance and the reason we share this view is because we both come from the basketball world where we look not just at the context, but the enveloping details between the lines as well when determining Top 10/GOAT status.

The majority of the tennis world (critics, big names, etc.) over 70% of them will only look at the career # of majors won and that will dictate who is the GOAT.

Also, what if Roger Federer never won the French open? Not to mention he won the French Open by avoiding Nadal, but nobody remembers that do they? And Roger would still be considered the goat without a FO title.

You realize fed is arguably the third best clay court player ever right(I personally have him closer to 5th) but you can easily make that argument. Nadal was in the tourney and he lost. Still counts

Also Id like to hear some non Americans opinions on the number of majors thing. I never remember that being considered as the goat criteria until Sampras started getting close. I mean does anyone consider Emerson the third best player? I just really don't think you can just say someone has x majors and therefore they are automatically they goat. You have to consider eras, surfaces and other things. I mean Borg didn't even play the Australian open most of his career(and he's second to fed on my all time list, though I never saw laver play)

Fed is the goat because he's the best grass court and had court player ever and a top 5 clay court player ever. He's great at everything. Nadal is the clay goat and a top 10 or so grass player and probably top 20 or so on hard courts

Federer is not 3rd best clay courter. Rafa, Borg, Laver, and Lendl are easily ahead. Not even mentioning guys like Kuerten, or Bruguera.

Rafa and Borg are the only people who are clearly ahead. If there was no nadal(and there wasn't for any of those other guys careers, fed would have 5 or 6 frenchs) To go along with quite a few clay masters

Rafa and Borg are the only people who are clearly ahead. If there was no nadal(and there wasn't for any of those other guys careers, fed would have 5 or 6 frenchs) To go along with quite a few clay masters

Laver and Lendl are ahead.

You can't use the "if not for", because you can go back and say that for anyone. If majors mattered when Laver played, he would destroy everyone in sheer #s.

Like I said I personally have fed 5th or so all time on clay but it's not that crazy to consider fed an all time great clay courter. He holds the record for most consecutive French open finals, semis and quarters