Bonds Will Boycott Cooperstown If 756 Has an Asterisk and It’s Fine With The Starting Five

Barry Bonds will boycott the Cooperstown Hall of Fame if record breaking home run ball is branded with an asterisk.

Good for you Barry! You have TSF’s vote!

Few athletes have the balls to stand up for what is right. Money is king in the eyes of most and the idea of losing it precipitates silence strictly out of fear. Whether or not you agree with Barry Bonds is irrelevant. The fact remains that no one is close to his numbers regardless of how many needles they stuck in their asses. I applaud Barry in this instance, because I do agree with him. The hatred associated with his existence is the most sickening display of humanity I’ve personally witnessed–in sports of course.

I have a real big fan in Oakland who caught the 715 ball to beat Ruth. His name is Tom. Whenever we go West, he goes from city to city and travels to watch me play. He’s been doing this since I came in the league. He goes to Portland, he goes to Seattle, Golden State, Lakers, Clippers ‘ he just drives and goes to all of them. Well Tom’s brother caught the 715 ball. He said he would give me that ball for free so I could tell Marc Ecko that he can switch out No. 715 for No. 756 and he can mark up No. 715 or whatever he wants to do with that ball, as long as he gives me the 756 ball. Tom just wants all 20 pairs of the GilIIZero‘s actually. So I have some fans out there joining the cause.

I apologize to Marc Ecko for making the offer the way I did, but that’s the only way to get stuff across to people is if you just burst out sometimes. Marc Ecko, I would really love the opportunity to sit down and negotiate with you about this ball and see if I can convince you to give it to me without taking it to the Hall of Fame marked.

Gilbert is being nice here, but I understand why he chose his words wisely. That’s the way of a superstar. You can’t necessarily say what you mean. I also applaud Gilbert for coming out publicly and decrying this bs.

Here’s was it sure to become a firestorm in the press the next couple of days. Funny that it’s Friday.

“I won’t go. I won’t be part of it,” Bonds said in an interview with MSNBC (Jim Gray) that aired Thursday night. “You can call me, but I won’t be there.”

The ball Bonds hit for home run No. 756 this season will be branded with an asterisk and sent to the Hall. Fashion designer Marc Ecko bought the ball in an online auction and set up a Web site for fans to vote on its fate. In late September, he announced fans voted to send the ball to Cooperstown with an asterisk.

Bonds has called Ecko “an idiot.”

Mark Ecko is an asterisk (Photo: Mary Altaffer/AP)

“I don’t think you can put an asterisk in the game of baseball, and I don’t think that the Hall of Fame can accept an asterisk,” Bonds said. “You cannot give people the freedom, the right to alter history. You can’t do it. There’s no such thing as an asterisk in baseball.”

It’s incredible that a large segment of MLB fans insist on this disgusting act of defense mechanism inspired jealousy and envy. Mark Ecko is sheepishly attempting to turn the tide of his previous urban sales into a mainstream middle America cash cow. Rest assured he’s rubbing his hands together visualizing a spike in sales because of this publicity. Trust Ecko wants Barry to retire this very second so he can sit back and wait out the time for Barry’s induction. He was hip hop, but no longer. He miscalculated the power of hip hop and it’s fast reemerging relevance. We don’t want your ass anyway (Substitute Ecko).It’s funny the majority of folk who have purchased his gear over the years he now turns his back on. Yes, this is a Black thing. Anyone who chooses to nullify the infusion of race on this subject just ain’t from ’round here. His company started making money in the ‘hood. I have a sick feeling in my stomach because I’ve purchased some of his clothing. The glasses riding my nose this very second are *ecko unltd. If I wasn’t blind as hell I would smash them to pieces. It’s incredible that this guy would pander to a demography just to mainstream his clothing line. Pardon me if I’m ignorant, but what is the asterisk before his logo? Is this something new? Does this line up with his marketing scheme? You’ve chosen sides Mark…now I boycott you.

This is just so ya know….Tell ’em Chuck!

(Anyone who purchased Public Enemy’s Apocalypse 91: The Enemy Strikes Back has a certain instrument ringing in their ears after hearing Shut ‘Em Down. Who knows the answer?) *Update: I was a little vague here. I meant the next instrument after Shut Em Down finishes playing.

It’s crazy Chuck, we were just talking about this type of media bs your show two weeks ago.

Mark Ecko you are a sellout!!! Come to TSF and fork tongue lisp the bs you’ve been spitting to the mainstream.

Hall president Dale Petroskey has said accepting the ball doesn’t mean the museum endorses the viewpoint that Bonds used illegal substances. He said the museum would be “delighted” to have the ball.

“It’s a historic piece of baseball history,” Petroskey said in September.

Hmm…another wait and see moment. All these cowards want America to speak so they can feel the perceived pulse. They sure as hell aren’t referencing America in it’s totality trust me.

So, if the Hall goes through with the asterisk display?

“I will never be in the Hall of Fame. Never,” Bonds said. “Barry Bonds will not be there.

“That’s my emotions now. That’s how I feel now. When I decide to retire five years from now, we’ll see where they are at that moment,” he added. “We’ll see where they are at that time, and maybe I’ll reconsider. But it’s their position and where their position will be will be the determination of what my decision will be at that time.”

I’ve stated it here many times. I had the chance to meet Barry Bonds and he was cool with me. How many of Barry’s former teammates have publicly spoken of his surliness and this supposed dichotomous locker room presence. Very few. What’s holding them back? During the chase this season did Barry snap at the media once? He has no use for us because of the mockery the media has made him out to be–and his father before him.

We’ll see how America truly is when the rest of the names come out after George Mitchell concludes his investigation. I can’t wait. A lot of people are going to be confused and stutter excuses li…like…like crazy. From what I understand some of the names will shock sports fans. Get your stories straight now, because we’re a comin’!

I have been chasing down Barry’s publicist (sure she’s sick of me 😉 ) in hopes of interviewing him (it was interesting how that fell through, but that’s another story), but to no avail.

Trust me I’ll keep trying.

If you are a part of Barry’s camp, get the big guy to give me a couple of words and stop dealing with folk who will twist and turn Barry’s words for their own “constituency branding” satisfaction. Why do Black athletes deal with this nonsense. Thank God for mediums like TSF and anything out there similar. HIS-story is bullshit. This is mystory.

148 Responses to “Bonds Will Boycott Cooperstown If 756 Has an Asterisk and It’s Fine With The Starting Five”

Listen, I’m tired of some white folks highlighting what they deem are black crimes and hiding their own. PEOPLE OF COLOR WERE NOT ALLOWED TO PLAY IN THE MAJORS UNTIL 1947 THIS IS A CRIME JUST LIKE THE ALLEDGED STEROID USE. SINCE MANY OF THE CURRENT RECORD HOLDERS ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR IT IS REASONABLE TO ASSUME THAT IF PEOPLE OF COLOR WERE ALLOWED TO PLAY THAT MANY OF THE RECORDS WOULD BE DIFFERENT. HAVING SAID THAT, THE ENTIRE ERA BEFORE PEOPLE OF COLOR WERE ALLOWED TO PLAY SHOULD HAVE AN ASTERISK.

I’M WITH YOU BARRY THIS WITCH HUNT IS RIDICULOUS!!

MARK ECKO IS AN ASS. I WILL NERVER BUY FROM HIS COMPANY, AND PEOPLE PLEASE STAY HOME TODAY AND SUPPORT THE BLACKOUT BY NOT BUYING ANYTHING!

Like our brothers and sisters who came before us, we have to stand together for change. I’m just very disappointed in our celebrities. Unlike the Jim Browns, Ali’s, Kareem’s, Dick Gregory’s and countless Motown artist, the celebrity of today is greedy and selfish and has turned their back on the very people who have made them rich. Afraid to speak out for fear that it will affect their earnings. So they make their money all while young brothers and sisters go hungry, receive poor education and face a justice system that is unfair to them. They sit in their mansions and appear on cribs flaunting their wealth and act like they don’t see what’s going on. We need to be careful who our children look up to. Many of these people need to be called out as well and boycotted. How do you leave your neighborhood and never look back? There aren’t enough Chris Webber’s, Grant Hill’s, Ice Cube’s in the world today. These guys have spoken out about problems in America. If you know of other celebs. taking a stand let me know. Those are the people I choose to support.

There were many Barry fans who were outraged by Ecko’s nonsense, but the story didn’t have any legs. Now that BLB’s spoken out we might see a response. Great post, thanks. (I’m boycotting the HOF as well, damnit!)

ALL of these athletes need to come together and speak out. The double standards that currently exist in the mst are mind boggling. I don’t understand why there hasn’t been a backlash by the athletes. They have a lot of power. Why don’t they realize that?

I remember some years ago listening to a Kwane Toure’ lecture ( actually a few) he would continually emphasized organize, organize, organize. Michelle, props to you for keeping the boycott idea alive. It is through education and organization that we can effectively force people to respect us or fear us. I don’t care if you don’t like me but either respect me or fear me.

One thing I know about capitalists and what they fear is the taking away their GOD! which is Money! commerce! capital!

As a Pan-Africanist I could never fathom people passing by a African retailer or service provider and go deal with a buch of culture vultures. Yeah! you’ll find some one saying I’ shop at a “quality establishment”, thus denegrating African business people in one statement.

Many of these same “quality establishments” who steal our cultural expressions, turn around and piss acid, venomus bile on us as a people and community. Mark Echo is no exception. I am actually glad the SOB came out of the sewer he occupied previously, so some of us will understand that in America Inc. and the western countries, culture is about survival, and when it comes to your survival and mine…fuck you!

Again, big up sister Michelle and all those who walk in the spirit of selma 1965.

Bro, You put it down with that post. Well said. I just hope the boycott has enough support to make an impact. Today it seems everyone has their own agendas and as long as they are ok, they don’t care about others. What people of color must realize is that no matter how much money you have you are still considered by many in this America as a second class citizen. Look at Bonds and Mike Vick. All their money could not protect them from the folks who are really in charge. The new lynching is character assasination at the hands of the MSM.

Sankofa you inspire me with your wisdom and knowledge. That’s why I linked to you in the original post. Thanks for coming here and kicking real rap. Our people need to assess self awareness and step in unison to the beat of the drum.

How come Marc Ecko buying a baseball is him “[turning] around and [pissing] acid, venomus bile on us as a people and community.”??

As for this: “Look at Bonds and Mike Vick.”

Mike Vick tortured and killed dogs that he couldn’t win any money with… What does that have to do with skin colour? Black, white, green, blue – it’s still heinous and punishable in a manner more severe than he got.

When the baseball HOF decided to accept the ball with an asterisk, I wrote those assholes. He’re my email and their reply. Never had a concept of Justice and never wil. I hope Bonds goes to Cooperstown only to piss on their biggest tree F the HOF.

KevDog
“Soon after the 15th amendment was ratified and made into law, it, alongside the 1870 civil rights act, which was designed to spell out how the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments were to be made real, was fundamentally gutted by a Supreme Court that denied that any State or local Government had any obligation to protect potential black voters against mobs whose purpose was to prevent them from voting. Mob rule is simply an engrained part of white American culture. That the jackass who purchased the Barry Bonds ball defers to the mob shouldn���t surprise anyone. That the baseball HOF is going along simply confirms exactly how pathetically little you’ve changed. You may think that by allowing the ball to be placed into your institution with the hateful asterisk you’re fufilling the will of the people, but what you’re doing is fufilling the will of the hatred and white supremacy that is part and parcel of white American culture. You’d think the pathetic history of segregation in the sport would have taught you people something. Simply pathetic beyond words. I know, I know, for you whites Ca. 2007, any discussion of race makes you pull out the ridiculous “race card” anthem and I know this won’t be read by the director initially, still I have some hope that whoever reads this initially understands how black folks in America is reading this episode and gets it to the director.”

The HOF reply.

“Dear Friend:

Thank you for your letter regarding Barry Bonds’ 756th home run baseball which is being donated to the museum. Thank you for taking the time to express your views and we apologize for the delay in returning a reply.

We understand your consternation in the Museum accepting this donation, but we strongly believe it is a relevant and important artifact that belongs in Cooperstown. As an American history museum, our core mission is to tell the story of baseball history, both in the context of how it unfolds on the field, and also as it relates to American culture.

As you know, the baseball from Bonds’ 756th home run is being donated with an asterisk affixed to it. We do not condone defacing artifacts and would have preferred the baseball be donated in its natural state. We were willing to look beyond that in this instance, because of the historical relevance connected to the baseball. We will explain why it is defaced and what led to it being donated to the Museum in that condition.

In our opinion, the baseball speaks to many significant parallels between baseball and culture in 2007, some of which include: a representation of baseball fans’ sentiments about the home record, for a one-week period in September 2007; a symbol of the adversity Barry Bonds had to endure in passing Hank Aaron to become the all-time home run champion, and; the passion baseball fans have for baseball history, as evidenced by the popularity of the online poll, in which 10 million votes were cast during a one-week period.

When this artifact is eventually donated and placed on display in the Museum, the entire story — from when the baseball left Barry Bonds’ bat and ended up in Cooperstown — will be presented fairly and balanced with facts and not supposition: We share baseball history through exhibits and let our visitors interpret their own feelings.

Additionally, please know we have several other artifacts graciously donated by Barry Bonds from his career, including his historic 755th and 756th home runs.

We hope this sheds some light into our thinking. Thanks again for sharing your opinion, which we value.”

What is the problem with his agenda? His aim is to increase awareness of his brand and make money… is it that you feel it’s at the expense of a black man?

What if he did the same thing with Mark McGwire’s 62nd ball? Then what Do you still boycott Ecko? What if when A-Rod breaks Bonds’ record some other guy buys it and does the same? If he had an urban influence and demographic do you follow suit?

I wasn’t buying ANY of Ecko’s bullshit gear before – and wouldn’t dream of it now. Why the phukkk would I enrich some buster that I don’t even know because he makes gear that’s reflective (as in – a mirror, but not the genuine article) of a culture that is not his own? Never happen.

Free your dollars, free your mind. Ecko can eat a dick up – and Bonds should have told the Hall of Fame to kiss his ass the first time. He never should have given them ANY of his shit. The HOF is not MLB and even MLB isn’t the game of baseball.

The game is a mix of all that owners, franchises, players and fans bring together. MLB is the owners. The HOF is a single repository – just like the Elias Sports Bureau is a single repository. Fuck the Hall of Fame and Ecko…In the final analysis, Ecko and the Hall will have to recant and Bonds’ greatest vindication will be if he man’s the phukkk up and exorcises his inner bitch. If he can do that, it will be all good. If he caves on this, phukkk him too.

I just read your piece. (BTW, I know you’re pumped that Mamba put it down on the Suns.) Interesting response from the Hall – but their obligation is to get it all. They want every single piece because they’re a repository…and the institution of first resort on the game and for MLB. Bonds had an opportunity to break that hold by repositioning his work and having it installed somewhere else. I bet the new Black cultural museum in Detroit would love to host his works for a while…it could have been part of an international tour with stops in Chocolate Cities all over this nation and the planet.

After a long, long, long while self-respecting negroes will wake up from this imposed slumber and snap the phukkk out of it. When they wake up, a lot of folks who benefitted from hitting the snooze button are going to lose some serious cash. There is no Mark Ecko without negroes asleep at the wheel. Some piles of shit are wrought by one’s own hand…others require the assistance of all manner of ugly confederates.

I have a feeling that Bonds will relent on this eventually. Too bad. Just once, I’d like to see a muhphukka man up and own his indignation for all its worth – and without the “rage of rejection.” I’d frame it as the power of independence…If Bonds isn’t bigger than the game, neither is a white mob or mark echo or the hall of fame. Their tacit approval of mob tactics is just as you called it.

This whole Ecko shit reminds me of fools always talking about “cool white guys” at clubs – guys they don’t even know and guys they don’t have a financial relationship with…but guys who listen to hip-hop, aren’t deathly afraid of black men (at least in large social settings) and who have figured out a way to make some money in either music or sports or apparel. There are tons of these ignant ass negroes runnin’ around – one minute they’re proclaiming their love for Timberland or Eddie Bauer…while those firms are saying – “Bacdafucup nigger…your money’s no good here.” Then they’re riding Tommy Killnigger’s dick…then it’s Ecko…and on and on and on. Absolutely pathetic consumerism. Slaves runnin’ around with badges of dishonor on their asses.

Mizzo, thanks for the link-up and the bigups, and to Michelle and all the for real TSF family that are not afraid to open their third eye to the matrix so many of us exist in.

As for you Spencer “bitch” Kyte, were I come from you enter a man house uninvited and talking shit, you get a machete in your punk ass! On one hand it’s great to see the recognition that TSF gets from across the internet. Unfortunately we are getting so much attention that sewer rats like you feel compelled to come up in here with your ignorant shit, looking for your 15 minutes of fame.

In order to hear what I am saying you must make an attempt to listen. In order to have a meaningful dialogue, you must be prepared to fucking listen, else all we’ll be hearing is white noise. At least that’s what I hear when Eurocentric views and African people in America Inc. intersect each other…WHITE NOISE!

You can’t get over O.J. because that kneegrow got away from your neck tie party. You can;t get over Barry because the great wino you worship is less relevant today than yesterday. You can’t get over Michael Vick and mans best friend (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) why don’t you go find a damn pit bull to hug?

All you cro-magnon knuckle dragging bitches need to take your stank self back up to your cave..’cause your cave like mentality gets burnt by the light of the sun’s truth.

Mark Echo is a ho’ and a culture bandet. The hall of infamy is only as important as the attention we give it. And as my brother Temple said, once Barry decides to buck and shuffle to get massa’s head rub, fuck him too. We got to draw a line in the sand and stand for something or we-not just Africans but intelligent people- if we don’t stand for something we’ll fall for any bloody deal the devil offers us.

Yo! Michelle! I got your back sistah! All revolutionary changes start when people at the grass roots level, always and often the women, get fed up and decide to do one single thing.

JUST SAY NO! If we say it loud enough and long enough the universe will hear and come over to assist us. Truth!

Damn, bruthas and sistas definitely dropping on here with this one. I wrote earlier when Ecko came up with his stunt that he was nothing but a low-class cultural bandit who since his sales in ‘urban’ American have plateaued is now trying to branch out and sell his crap to his brethren to let them gain some wannabe hiphop cred. It ain’t gonna work, shawty, because I see little white kids walking in Times Square rocking RocaWear and PhatFarm and those funds are going to the original innovators as it should.

Michelle, I’m with you on the Black out

Everybody else do like KevD did and let the HOF know that we don’t appreciated Ecko’s cheap stunt. It’s not going to change anything but it will let them know this IS a vocal minority and if you come at us with some BS we will call you on your s—.

Why is it that in a forum like this where everyone is expressing their views intelligently, you need to come at me with Spencer “Bitch” Kyte and tell me when people step in your house they catch a machete? WTF?

You don’t like my views? Fine. But nothing says I need an invitation from you or anyone else to have an opinion on this. This isn’t me seeking 15 minutes, it’s me having an opinion, albeit one that no one else here echoes…

As for all your White Noise – listen to your own words. You need to open up and see what others are saying, not be solely based in your beliefs and views.

This ain’t got nothing to do for me with Babe Ruth – I can’t get over Barry because I think he’s tainted and he broke a record of a much stronger, much more respectable man. OJ? Please… Vick? Nice to know you’re all for killing dogs for sport.

I’ll agree Ecko is a culture bandit. He’s suburban and made his gear ‘hood and everyone bought it up. It’s not like he only issued it to people in the streets. Hip Hop embraced it and then everyone else followed suit, just like always.

Boycott him all you want – homeboy is still worth millions… what does it change?

Miranda, I finally tried to watch one of those ‘hunting’ shows on the worldwide leader…and I just couldn’t. Then I went and researched the ‘greyhound racing’ industry. Interesting stuff to remind me that our perspective has always been the sane one.

Okay, I can’t help but add….why did I just hear Lil Wayne say in a song…’got 12 Barbaro’s under the hood’ LMFAO!!!!!

Touche’…Why is it ok to hunt animals for sport? I’m with you Miranda on the Barbaro point. Horse racing gets animals injured and killed every year. Those indiviuals who consider themselves above us make and enforce all the rules. No matter how f….. they are.

Had to work last night missed the conversation. Has anyone seen or heard any press coverage on the blackout?

Michelle,
I haven’t heard anything but on this radio show here in the ATL, the host commented on the blackout and said he didn’t agree…then went on to say, “well, if you really want to see the effect of black buying power, a good example are the Atlanta Falcons.” He went on to talk about how the prominently african-american fanbase was upset at how Vick was treated by the organization and as a result, the first TV blackout this weekend since 2001….I had to laugh at the irony of it….but really, that is a pretty good example!!

SD,
Those hunting shows are horrible…but have you noticed the guys when they shoot a deer or pheasant or whatever the kill is?? They are somewhat maniacal….pretty psyched over their “conquest”…..scary stuff indeed,

This is a disclaimer: Any statement made by me on this forum that maybe construed as violent in intent or threatening, is not reflective of any one else on TSF, this is my personal view.

As for you Spencer your inane question: “Why is it that in a forum like this where everyone is expressing their views intelligently,”

Here lies the key, intelligent! European Americans are not, I repeat are not acting intelligent or rational when it comes to Michael Vick, Barry Bonds or O.J. Simpson.

While neither are exceptions they stand out prominently when it comes to the marriage of African and African celebrities and White supremacy and racism. The rabid mob mentality exhibited so far around these three is indicative of the psychosis associated with hatred in general but that which is directed at others based on melanin, ethnicity or culture.

Psychiatrists and Psychologists tab racism as a mental health problem.

“Mike Vick tortured and killed dogs that he couldn’t win any money with… What does that have to do with skin colour? Black, white, green, blue – it’s still heinous and punishable in a manner more severe than he got.”

That is your conjuncture, and those that hold your world view. As a blog troll, if you wanted to comment, you should have gone through the archives at TSF, I read what the prevailing sentiment is regarding Vick and the atmosphere around this case. If you didn’t you should have shut your fucking mouth and get a feel what heads are saying before you jumping in with the same, ignant crap that is spouted on the mainstream rags. This aint ESPN.

“I can’t get over Barry because I think he’s tainted and he broke a record of a much stronger, much more respectable man. OJ? Please… Vick? Nice to know you’re all for killing dogs for sport.”

You can’t get over Barry because you and haters like you have a secret man-love for Barry, you want to be like Barry. All manly and buffed and swinging that big stick. But because of your psychosis, and physical inadequacy, you project the image of cheater and steroids on to Bonds, because you know you can not, nor your peers, do what Barry does, even as an aging player.

That’s why the media gets fixated on Barry’s big head and small gonads.

Also, as long as I am here on this planet, I have never seen blue or green people so I don’t know where you coming with that. But it is one of the fall back statement of gate keepers and managers in the White Supremacy system…just to show “I am not a racist!”

“You need to open up and see what others are saying, not be solely based in your beliefs and views. “

Your feelings hurt? Go hug rex, I have no sympathy or care for you and your feelings. Payback is a bitch! to start off your first comment here with stupid ass shit, that’s beaten like a dead dog, shows how much most people dis respect the views and feelings of African people.

Keep your comments to Sesame Street and Dora the explorer and you won’t get a verbal beat down!

Thanks for the info. If the blackout is deemed unsuccessful by the MST, I’m sure they will mention it then. Again, I will be wearing my Michael Vick # 7 VT jersey on Nov. 16 in Washington DC.

As for Spencer, it’s crazy how crimes against people of color have gone unpunished and he doesn’t seem to care. He seems to put the value of a dogs life before that of a black human being. That’s the truth he pretends not to see, then he wonders why we are a bit annoyed with him.

Michelle,
People like Spencer are crying rivers over Andy Reid’s unfortunate situation with his drug dealing sons, and placing not one iota of blame on the failings of his parental skills. Not to mention, they would be ready to go to blows at the mere mention that Reid should face some criminal charges considering the illegal guns, ammo and drugs found in the home and vehicles registered to him. Lets not pretend like there are no charges that can be applied…its his damn house and his cars…therefore he’s responsible for what’s found in them…..but to people like Spencer, Reid should be supported, pitied, given a big fat pass because…well…..you just can’t control your “kids”.

The double standard is sickning. If Andy Reid were black there would be no sympathy for him. Like you metioned, those guns were found in his home and in cars registered to him so he could have been held responsilbe if someone had been hurt. How about the MSM giving his kids a pass. They go off on a young black athlete if they smoke so weed. So how is it that these young men who deal drugs, tote guns and use drugs are not getting slammed for their behavior?

I don’t know. Funny, I saw a young black kid today with one of his hoodies on. Our youth are so lost. I wanted to stop and have dialogue with him about Ecko. I didn’t though because I truly didn’t think he would care. I think I’m wrong for feeling that way.

I tell my kids all the time, the good are separated from the great simply by the risks they take. He might have said no or get out of my face lady, but trust that he would have something to think about. That’s all that matters. Thanks.

It just seems that some of our youth are uninterested in any movement. Many of them just don’t seem to care. I stopped at a shopping center last night on my way to work. I saw some people of color going into the grocery store. I asked them if they knew about the blackout and they said no. I briefly explained the how’s and why. Their reply was that’s cool and all but we gotta eat. I was disappointed and continued on to work. We seem to have forgotten our history and change will not come without sacrafice.

First, Andy Reid’s son should be in jail. He should have been in jail the last time and Andy Reid is in part to blame because I’m sure he wasn’t the best parent he could be.

You tell me not to talk shit that is contrary to the views that one is supposed to have if they dare comment on this site – don’t talk shit about what I feel, like and am concern with like you know me.

There is nothing I have said that made any reference to crimes against people of color going unpunished and me not caring. How in thge f*** did this go from Marc Ecko and Barry Bonds to me and the atrocities that have been committed against people of color?

Sankofa – so basically, if I don’t have the same thing to say as the rest of the heads here at TSF, I shouldn’t say anything? maybe what you meant to say was that if I didn’t want to have the same “Damn the Man, Fuck Whitey” views you’re espousing than I can catch a machete right?

It’s interesting to me that the minute I make a comment about an act I disagree with, not because it was committed by a black man, but because I think it was cruel, I’m a cave-dwelling, black-man hating racist who should fuck off. That’s some bullshit right there… I didn’t know TSF was a blacks only club… Sorry I interfered.

Spencer,
First of all this is not a blacks only club. Second of all it seems that the only time some white folks seem to be outraged is when a person of color does something wrong. That is the frustration of many people of color. Take Oj for instance. If you think he did it and got away with it fine. The problem is the outrage by whites. Where is the outrage for the little black girls burned for just being black. There was no civil judgement and no one has paid for the crime. This country’s history is full of examples of white folks killing blacks for no reason at all and getting away with it. SO unless you are an equal opportunity critic then no we don’t want to hear it. You mentioned Mike Vick, are you aware that Mike Vick’s teammate who happens to be white killed his girlfriends puppy with a hammer because he was upset with her. Funny he hasn’t missed one game and I don’t hear outrage about that. Is that not animal cruelty? Also what is your position on the fact that people of color were not allowed to play in the majors pre 1947? Is that not a crime? By the way Barry Bonds alledged to have done steroids. Lets just mark all the record books. Take away the Raiders Superbowl (Lyle A.), remove Mark G. from the record books, he once broke the sack record. Let’s not be selective now in the drug department. So we also need to remove the Phillies 1980 title since a large number of players on that team were on speed. Some of my niners superbowls have to go since Bill R. was also on steroids. The list goes on don’t be selective now Spencer.

Spencer this is an open forum but you must understand we are not going to pander to the same bullshit the mainstream shoves–or tries to–down our collective throats every single day. TSF was created to be an alternative. A place where we can have intelligent dialogue among ourselves without defense mechanism driven and thoughtless drama sick with hatred. We welcome dissent here, but if you don’t come correct you will get smashed. We are sick and tired of the constant criticism of Black athletes and not their White counterparts. It’s ridiculous. Our voice is not given it’s proper reverence…so hence TSF. Deal with it or not. We will not apologize for our vantage point.

Look at any newspaper or website that discusses race. Subsequently, you will read some of the sickest most ignorant comments ever that follow. It’s disgusting and no one ever offers an explanation.

Spencer, question for you: Tell me what the asterisk is symbolic of in Ecko’s logo and then we can talk.

Michelle, If I hadn’t grown up in a certain environment I could understand how most of us would feel intimidated approaching our sons and daughters. I’ve been in a place and time where the energy they give off does appear threatening.

But this was a revalation after I got to a certain age and became more reasonable and tempered in my outlook ( yes, I have! LOL)

I have learnt from my experienc as a rebelious youth it is not so much that you approach them, but how. It’s a constant test and as a youth worker, I see these youngsters dealing with things I never realy dealt with in my youth and certainly not with the limited community support system that’s available. When i say support system i don’t mean intitutional. The collective ignorance from a learning stand point, the collective edginess, the collective “fuck you ” attitude, is a result of neglect and emtinal abuse.

At age 20, I never trusted any one over 25. In my 40’s I still don’t trust a lot of people over 25. Why is that? Because my generation on a whole have failed the youngsters. We were too busy fighting to intgegrate, assimilate and be upwardly mobile. We forgot that all great edifaces must have a strong foundation. Ethics, truth, receprocity, discipline, sharing.

“If children live with criticism, they learn to condemn…”

Do we realize that the over 40 generation were the first of the day care generation? That before us, this kind of artificial learning incubator was none existant?

They family that said we gotta eat, is currently the norm. The mis-education of the kneegrow had achieved it’s apex in the 1980’s. We are reaping the result of what the old man said of the people of Sumar.

“Oh! said the traveller to old man, what happened to the people of Sumar, they were great warriors and had a great civilization. Said the old man to the traveller, they forgot their history and so they died”

I plan to write a blog about culture in the next few days, so I can hopefully explain how important it is to the over all survival of a people. Every one practices their cultural expressions to the betterment of themselves…except Africans. At best we practice a bastardize version of the standard we originaly set and now every body emulates.

We forgot our-story, but our-story is intertwined in our culture and if there was one single thing that Ceasar, Ptolomy, Napoleons and the British Empires of the world did, that was to eradicate our symbols and the basis for our survival and that is our culture.

Help me out here y’all, what was the opening line of Minister Farakhan from fight the power trac…? About us losing our minds?

I got some more food for thought. When Brett Farve was abusing pain killers the media had sympathy for him. When he openly refused to mentor Aaron Rogers, he wasn’t called selfish. It was clear to me that since he has been one of the leaders in the interception dept. over the past 3 years or so he should have retired. Care to explain this? Why doesn’t Tony D get more credit for his winning percentage and a superbowl victory? Chucky seemed to get all kinds of credit when he won the superbowl even though he did it with Tony d.’s team and against his former team (he knew all of Rich Gannon’s plays) he hasn’t done shit since. When the team fell apart the MSM conveniently blamed Keyshawn Johnson instead of the head coach. This is a forum to equal the playing field. I am certainly not a racist. I just want equal punishment and criticism for all men. To tell you a little bit bout myself. I am an animal lover. I have several. I to was pissed when the Mike V. story broke. The problem is will the punishment fit the crime? In most states dog fighting is a misdemeanor. Should a man lose millions of dollars, his job and his freedom for this when no other man has been punished anywhere close to that for the same crime? HELL NO! My view of animal cruelty is much broader then yours. I don’t like hunting. It makes my sick that men do this for sport. Oh, I forgot because white folks don’t see that as a crime it’s not one. It’s also not animal cruelty. Some drunken hunter shooting a deer with a bow ands arrow. Missing any vital organs so the poor thing continues to live until it either bleeds to death or if the wound doesn’t cause such bleeding an infection sets in and it dies weeks later. Not to mention the orphan babies of such animals who are left to either starve to death nor killed by some other predator because mom is dead and can’t protect them. But none of what I just mentioned is either cruel or illegal. Black people don’t make laws. Our thoughts and feelings about anything still seem to be irrelevant. Slavery was.

I feel you brotha. Now I got to to go out to the car and get my PE tracks. It’s time to party. Thanks for the words of wisdom, my soul feels blessed to hear them. I guess Spencer has no answers to the questions posed to him. Figures. Thats wtf we are speaking about here. Long live TSF and all who care to join the conversation.

Secondly, I understand completely where you (and Mizzo) are coming from in terms of having the same stories and skewed versions of stories littered on the news. That part I get. The treatment of people of color is abhorring and very underpublicized in many cases and it is a sin.

In regards to your questions, here is where I stand:

Vick’s teammate who killed a dog should be suspended and should suffer punishment…

Blacks not playing in MLB before 1947 means that all those records deserves asterisks too because they weren’t against the best competition around…

I know it’s only alleged that Barry has done steroids. I think he did use them… that’s just me.

As for being selective, I agree that there is a list longer than the eye can see of tainted records and accomplishments. You’re right on all fronts there. You want to mark’em all, I don’t have an argument with that. Or, we can just say “At some point, someone or numerous someone’s have been cheating in one way or another. Since that levels the playing field, can we just call it even?” One of the two need to happen or we’re just going to have this same debate over and over and over again…

That’s better. I appreciate your comments. You just have to understand where we are coming from here. The media slaughter of such men mentioned in previous post is part of the reason we are here, and on lighter days to talk sports in general. The problem is the MSM isn’t fair and constantly slams said athletes. When you have black skin and deal with racism every day of your life it hurts. We are tired of it. We would like to watch a monday night football game without being angry. We would like to come home from a hard days work and not hear the OJ, MV, TO, mini series. If no one else cares about how people of color are treated shouldn’t we? HELL YES! For we have children that have to live in this world. I don’t apologize for that.

I’m not asking you to not be hostile. In fact, I encourage and support your
hostility. You should care how you’re treated, as I do as well. Some of the media treatment is excessive, biased and hateful. You’re bang on.

The part I question, and this will probably get me banned, is when does it become about the individual themselves and not their skin color? I don’t think what Mike Vick did was heinous and reprehensible because he is black, I think it was heinous because he tortured and killed dogs, the same way I think what his white teammate did is just the same and should be punished accordingly. Same goes for Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire…

And a horse getting euthanized when it is critically injured and living in pain is very, very different from killing a dog that can’t perform well in a fight….

First I must correct you. If the horse wasn’t racing in the first place he would not need to be put to sleep. Thus you have greed using a animal to make money while ending his life. Also it was common for horses to be shot for under performing or be killed for insurance fraud. Secondly, MV was cruel. He should be punished but like I said no person on the planet has been punished as harshly as he will be. Men have moved from state to state running puppy mills were animals are routinely treated cruelly and in some cases to the point of death. Repeat offenders have not been thrown in jail for multiple years or have had to pay millions of dollars–same with repeat offending dog fighters. You have the floor…..

Are youth are exactly the opposite of how you’ve been taught to perceive them. I could go into great detail, but to save us all time we don’t have – what makes you think they don’t see what you see? They say they see it every time someone puts a microphone in front of their faces. If you can find a small group of young people to work with and prepare them to be world class in something that you love – get back to me after you’re done about how disinterested our youth are. I suspect I’d never, ever hear from you again. Take that leap.

Again, the problem is his teammate wasn’t punished and white folks across america were not outraged by him beating to death a puppy with a hammer. You know these same pepole who were so outraged by MV’S. actions. Also these same people either hunt or know people that do so. Hunters are not trained sharp shooters, so there is a lot of cruelty going on there. I’m not selective in my views of animal cruelty. White men are not our creator and thus need to stop seeing their point of view of life only. They the reason why man animals are now extinct and do to big business and greed are responsible for much of the global warming. Many of them who pass judgement on others are liers, crooks and theives. Hardly the moral authority on anything.

Michelle, don’t yield the floor, you’re feeling it!! Go with it…go Belichick on ’em and run up the score. LOL!!
There’s just too much at stake here to not let the truth be spoken, yelled even.
I am so gleeful about the Falcons blackout and hope that the points we’ve been making from that first search in Surrey County until this very day is cemented home with that obvious message.

As for Marc Gecko, he scrambled his way into the Bonds-Americana saga like a lizard and instead of employing a talking lizard as a marketing tool he decided to exploit a black athlete as a marketing tool. The piling on of certain personalities and issues has become orgasmic for far too many people that so many formerly thinly vieled affonts have become wildly visible.

I’m merely speaking from my own experience. I teach my daughter about our history. Problem is and the truth is most of my peers–30 something parents–are not doing the same. I’m not saying it is the fault of the youth. It is our fault. If the young man was raised with awareness, he would have known not to wear the Ecko hoody. I estimate he was in his early twenties. That is my position.

How eloquently put. You guys sometime intimidate me with your classy way of stating a point.The MSM is over kill. I’ve been waiting for a place like TSF for years. Calling talk radio and getting hung up on before making my point has been my only outlet. Whats also funny is how the MSM uses blacks against one another. Like Keyshawn and the all of a sudden commercials with Hank Aaron in them. The MSM never promoted Hank Aaron as the home run king. Their tactics are very calculated. I and others here at TSH aren’t fooled.

Michelle,
Funny thing about feelings that make us a bit insecure, we all share them. I used to be intimidated until I realized the truth has leverage on here and when you get weary and need a break you’ve got soldiers-in-type ready to go to battle when you need to tap out for a bit. I am still awed daily by the contributers and their style and the knowledge that I extract from our exchanges. Even days when I can’t comment, I come hear to get a fresh dose of that realness. Everyone should! Especially when we have to be bombarded by daily blood pressure risks like a new Whitlock column, or a new Marc Gecko scam, or a reporter trying to slam Janet Jackson, or another clueless person trying to indict my non-indictment of Vick or…well, you know we could go on forever. I just think that on those days (which in America, is pretty much everyday LOL), the collective and perspectives here are good for the mind, body and soul.

I do hope that we remain steadfast in trying to find the right messages to send to all black folks and the youth especially because of their uniqueness as the ones who will live with part of what we leave. If the National Blackout doesn’t work to curb consumerism and give people a reason to contemplate and feel the maze of economic activity that leaves us disenfranchised and unable to fight the other spears of exploitation that are constantly and automatically thrown our way then we keep trying until we find the right strategy. And I know that we will, it will come organically and surprise the f*** outta everybody who that the subjegation would continue to line their pockets. And when we get that next Athlete who steps the f*** and tells it like it is and does it in such a way that the media is scared of it and attracted to it at the same time, it will be because that ish had been bubbling and then it hit the streets and will rise from there.

You are truely a diva. Well stated as always. On Nov. 16th I will proudly march on Washington as soldiers of our past have done. Doing so wearing my Mick Vick VT jersey not because I condone his mistakes but because I support his right to a second chance and denounce the hatred and overreaction to what he has done. We have a voice and it will be heard.

You know, I loved the idea of the blackout, but my preferred strategy would’ve been to transfer the black buying power of one day from the tradtional outlets to the black-owned ones. I wish everybody buying Sneakers would’ve went and bought Starbury’s instead.

Because I knew folks would still shop I was hoping we could provide an ‘economic surge’ into the community repleat with all types of resources deployed to ensure that folks knew where they should spend their dollars that day and even more importantly be inspired by the ‘movement’, the ‘collective’ to spend at black-owned establishments even if they weren’t planning to shop that day and regarding the long-term, open their minds to doing more of such in the future.

“not because I condone his mistakes but because I support his right to a second chance and denounce the hatred and overreaction to what he has done”
Michelle, you don’t even have to provide disclaimers like that here, you know we understand the full depth of humanity. Well, if it’s for others that may pop up here and may try to pounce on you, I understand, just know, with me and others (whom I’m sure you can easily point out), you can save your fingers from the extra typing. 🙂

Excellent idea. Why is it that we don’t support our businesses. Folks who have nothing will contiuously spend their last dollar to get a designer handbag. Don’t they realize that none of this money is going back into our community and these over priced designers could care less about them. Why are so many of us stuck on that mentality? We need positive solutions and we need them now. The drop out and incarceration rates of our youth continues to sky rocket. What we need are the entertainers and sports figures to get involved since so many of our youth look up to them. We must also remember that change will not come without sacrafice.

I’m new around here. Thanks for the tip. I also thank you for your point of view. TSF has not only been an outlet for my frustration, it’s also been a place where I’ve learned a lot. I appreciate that. I don’t under estimate the power of information.

” An Ecko spokeswoman said executives noticed as an afterthought that there is an asterisk in one of their logos. But any connection between the baseball asterisk and the brand logo is “pure coincidence.”

The company’s chief logo is a rhinoceros.

“If we were intentionally trying to drive it back to our logo, we would have stamped it with a rhino,” said the spokeswoman, Keleigh Thomas. “The asterisk has long been used as an annotation in baseball statistics – long before Marc or Ecko Unlimited existed – and was the sole reasoning for our choice.”

Even so, the asterisk on the Ecko logo and the asterisk used to announce the voting results bear a striking resemblance.

Unlike the typical asterisk above the No. 8 on most keyboards, which has six points, the Ecko asterisk and the Web-site asterisk have five distinctive points. ”

Second – A lil background — Steve Hulkower and I write for bugsandcranks.com — he sent me the link to this post since I had written my own HOF boycott piece on our site. I too received the same BS HOF form email in response to my emails.

We decided to do another post joining the Eckkko boycott and linking TSF:

Kyte, Hulkower & myself have been going back and forth about Barry for the better part of this past season, so reading all the comments here I’m torn between a tremendous sense of pride & enjoyment that Spencer’s getting some perspective on the whole situation from someone other than Steve & I — but also feeling the need to vouch for Spencer. I consider him a friend though we’ve only talked through emails. He’s a very talented writer and has good taste in a lot of things, and says plenty of things I do agree with — just not about Barry, Mike Vick or OJ, and especially not about putting Barry in the same sentence or category with Vick or OJ.

It sounds like all the commenters here brought him a lot closer to seeing the way I see things than I was able to over the last couple months — so I’m grateful for your eloquent efforts.

As I see it, Spencer wants to enjoy Barry getting publicly shamed, because he is someone he thinks cheated. I have problems with that because A) you should be innocent until proven guilty, 2) dude’s being totally unfairly singled out.

From Spen’s last comments, it sounded like he was moving toward, I support Barry being astericized but I would also support all those other people being astericized.

But I can’t see how anyone can make that division — it should be Brand everybody or Brand no one, not just well let’s start by Branding Bonds and worry about everybody else if we can ever get corporate sponsorship for it.

— Michelle, I don’t know if we have met, but you are my fucking hero! BTW, is it me or are the ladies starting to take over this site?

— Mark, thanks for that HOF link. I sent a note to every single department just in case some one missed it.

— Spencer, I’m probably redundant here since it all seems to have been said, but fuck it, better safe than sorry. You state: “The part I question…is when does it become about the individual themselves and not their skin color?”

The answer is when the media and public reaction is equal (see many examples Michelle & co. pointed out). Check out some of these documented comments on Michael Vick’s APOLOGY http://www.cosellout.com/?p=100 … Do you see it? now go through some ESPN comment sections on Andy Reids sons. I know, I know drug dealing ain’t dog-fighting to you…. Fine, then go through comment sections of wrestler Chris Benoit WHO MURDERED HIS WIFE AND KID, and see if you find the same level of vitriol from commeters OR media!

Toward the latter end of these posts you state things like “Vick’s teammate who killed a dog should be suspended and should suffer punishment…” and “Blacks not playing in MLB before 1947 means that all those records deserves asterisks too because they weren’t against the best competition around…”

Now, from one white guy to another, I have some questions for you. Are your words simply pandering to the TSF crowd or do they have any actual real meaning? When you leave this site and comment on more mainstream (read: white) sites, and converse in white circles, will you FIGHT for these points? Will you challenge other whites who demonstrate great disdain for Vick but don’t have a word for Babineaux? The next time a white friend in a predominantly white circle talks about Barry Bonds and asterisks, will you tell them how strongly you feel about all of the records prior to 1947 being bullshit? How Babe Ruth never had to face the likes of Smokey Joe Williams, Satchel Paige, Bob Gibson, Pedro Martinez, or Johan Santana, or Mariano Rivera? Will you strive for their and your own consistency beyond sports? After the latest dog-fighting diatribe is done, will you challenge their silence on the genocide in Darfur? When the latest rant on the Duke boys is over, will you challenge their silence on …Genarlow Wilson, …Shaquanda Cotton, …The Jena 6? When they look at you all crazy, will you back pedal into a familiar comfort zone that is the warm cozy blanket called white privilege or will you stand on your unpopular conviction simply because it is the right one? Are you willing to lose and sacrifice some measure of social standing to stand up for the type of consistency that you are requesting on this site? …Inquiring minds wanna know…

Thanks, just trying to keep it real. You to make an excellent point here by asking Spencer those questions. The questions you pose are exactly the reason why things haven’t changed. If a group of people are going on and on about OJ, BB etc. and they aren’t called out regarding issues that affect people of color, then how are they forced to confront their own racism?

Sorry everybody…don’t mean to get blood pressures up on a Sunday morning…but I just saw this, a friend (and I’ve now got to question if this is really a friend) forwarded Whitlock’s last column to me….I feel painfully obligated to share:http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7374232

My latter comments aren`t about pandering to anyone – ask Chalk if that is how I do things – it is I live my life. The fact that everyone here takes my views in the Ecko / Bonds debate to mean that I have to be another member of the white masses who cares nothing about the plight, inequality and ills that have been forced onto other races actually saddens me.

Don’t say drug dealing ain’t dog fighting to me – Andy Reid’s kid deserves the same punishment as everyone else – but just because the MSM and commentors don’t attack it doesn’t make it my fault or is this a case of guilt by association?

The last thing I want to say is this – and this isn’t me justifying any of the actions and atrocities and unfair media practices – this is just me speaking my mind:

There isn’t going to be a time when The White Media looks at white athletes and coaches with the same eyes as they do the black athletes and coaches. It isn’t right at all, I don’t agree with it, but that is the truth.

John Gruden is going to get the credit that Tony Dungy rightfully deserved. Brett Favre is going to get a sympathetic montage on MNF for his painkiller addiction and it is bullshit. I know it, you know it, hell, even the MSM knows it. But they can do it, so they will.

Stories like Genarlow Wilson and the Jena 6 deserve mainstream coverage – we should be discussing them and their stories on a daily basis to try and counter the bullshit that happens on a daily basis, but instead, we’re talking about a Week 9 football game like it’s the most important thing in the world… I disagree with that, but all I can do is my own little part to try and chip away bit by bit…

I too believe that the treatment and biased perception and depiction of athletes and people of colour in general throughout the media is bullshit, but I also know that sitting here with a belief than anyone who has a different view than the majority must be a racist and agrees with everything the MSM says doesn’t accomplish anything.

Email Ecko and tell them what you think. Get this up on Ball Hype and Fark and everywhere you can, because it is an important discussion that needs to be had more and more… and I will stand beside you and say “asterisk everyone before 1947, stop talking about bullshit stories and look at Genarlow and the Jena 6… what about Vick’s teammate?” and much much more. I still won’t back Barry Bonds, but that one thing doesn’t mean I’m against everything…

Dude, is CRRRRRAAAAZZZZY! When did Keyshawn, a guy who the MSM slammed on the regular become their ally? His cooments about the probowl are raising my pressure as we speak. Here we go again with the hip hop sh.. Weren’t Kid Rock and Tommy Lee fighting at the MTV awards? I guess rock stars don’t travel with rowdy entourages.

Michelle,
LOL!! Whitlock’s tirades on hip-hop are so completely over-the-top, that have you noticed rappers don’t even address him?? LOL….I would have thought that at least one would taken him on in at least ONE song..but he ain’t even worth it. Yep…..Kid Rock and Tommy Lee go to blows on national TV……but hey…that’s just two crazy rock stars! Its all good!! ………oh, and its my understanding that on Around the Horn the other day, guess what gets blamed for the Reid boys thuggery?? Why HIP-HOP OF COURSE!!!!

Point taken. You mention a very important but also painfully obvious point by mentioning that the MST will never change. This is scary and speaks volumes about America. The MST is driven by money. They give the people what the want. Accepting this reality means that America is majority racist . If they enjoy watching black man after black man being stripped of their dignity by the media, like slaves on the auction block. The question is where do we go from here? From where I’m standing the future for people of color in this land looks grim.

Yeah like all the fighting that goes on in the NHL… It’s just part of the game. So what if Todd Bertuzzi almost kills a man. It’s part of the game! Those black savages Ron Artest and Jermaine O’neal should be locked away for life. Oh, and Kid Rock and Tommy Lee, That was just a small lovers quarrell. Caused by the presence of the hip hop artist in attendance of course.

I don’t know what the next step is. I think part of it is things like this – intelligent discourse and bringing issues to light when they deserve it. Real issues, not the bullshit ones that are spoon fed to the masses.

Personally, I can only control my actions and my perspectives and do the things I can, like posting on my blog and talking about the issues and situations that matter to me. It may sound quaint, but I really do believe that open discussion of these things, as small as it may seem, can eventually have an impact. Every big thing started out small.

In this case, I say email Ecko as my man Chalk suggested. Write the HOF. Take your stand and do so with full force and all out. As Mizzo suggested – Shut’em Down if that is what you believe. I give you the utmost respect for that conviction…

Another part of it is us as a whole. You, me, everyone who blogs and writes… we need to focus on the more important issues and talk about the successes, not the failures. There should be more about the strength of Genarlow Wilson to sit in jail for a number of years, all the while never giving up hope until he was released this week. And when we talk about the wrongs that were done against him and the antiquated laws and biased approach taken in his case, or that of the Jena Six where the prosecutor alleged Mychal Bell’s tennis shoes were a deadly weapon, we need to do so without piss and venom as Sankofa said, but with facts, support, intelligence and knowledge, not just anger, though I’m certain it is hard to curtail at some point.

Those are my thoughts and I do appreciate that this has turned from “Fuck Spencer Kyte” to a conversation about change and the future.

Seriously though Spencer, the frustration by Sankofa is warranted. I back my brotha to the fullest. Whites stop at the superficial treatment of Bonds and others vilified like they are shit on a scuffed shoe.

We dig deeper because that’s where the knife has historically and literally cut and BLOODSHED has ensued. Here’s a link fo yo ass. That feeling in the pit of your stomach is where our soulful existence begins and never ends. Bonds and Vick would have most likely been lynched back in the day…and maybe now if the law allowed it. That’s why we fight because our memories are short and the funerals are long.

We perceive those not wanting to understand our thought process as straight up stupid–unwilling to change strictly because of guilt and privilege–which leads to accurate charges of RACISM.

You make absolutely unacceptable excuses for your people when you say:

“There isn’t going to be a time when The White Media looks at white athletes and coaches with the same eyes as they do the black athletes and coaches. It isn’t right at all, I don’t agree with it, but that is the truth.”

That line has me steaming. You want to come on here and b@tch about Sankofa’s off the cuff line, but then on the same hand dismiss history and the present?

BS.

Tell us something different. Get out among your people like we do here and offer solutions. That shit ain’t nothing but “Don’t mind him, that’s how he was raised. He was raised in a time where colored boys stepped aside as I passed with my lady.”

Spencer, your position on Bonds is not so important to as is consistency, and just as important willingness to challenge others to be consistent. And to piggyback on mizzo on “there isn’t going to be a time statement…”, I would just add that being so accepting of this ENSURES that the time will never come. The double-standard and hypocrisy must be fought tooth and nail at every turn, until there IS a time that black athletes are treated like white athletes. Period.

Every social movement for fairness and equality in history was led by the discriminated group in question but usually didn’t effect change until enough people from the dominant group jumped on board who adamantly challenged others from that same group. Considering that our country has overcome slavery, women’s suffrage, and segregation, I don’t think that the goal of demanding a fair and balanced sports media is some untenable lofty goal. if it means we educate some of them, excoriate others, drive some out of the business, then thats what we do. Less than 2% of all sports editors are black in a institution that covers black athletes more than half the time. That is fucking ridiculous, but it remains because no one FIGHTS against the bullshit amongst the dominant group. That can be accomplished — only if enough people DEMAND it and not accept it. Any time you are ready to slide from “accepting” to “demanding”, we will be one step closer to that outcome.

Miranda, I have a lot of shit to take care of today, okay. I desparately have to clean my house, actually have to do some preparation for my REAL job tomorrow, and if possible would try to find time to squeeze out another blog article. Also, the Pats-Colts are on at 4:15 and I gotta catch my Knicks afterwards. It is a sunny Sunday and I will be going out to brunch soon with my significant other. In short, Sunday’s are precious to me. The very LAST THING that i will do is open up that Whitlock link! Putting that shit up on a nice Sunday morning is some of the wrongest etiquette that I could possibly imagine! Fuck that. Maybe at 10pm tonight, ill come back around to it… but not now. Please exercise better manners in the future! 🙂

NUFF SAID MY BROTHER!!! I let Spencer off the hook too easy. The fact the people of color are not holding paid positions in the media is excellent. I must say that black atheletes are equally to blame for this. Allowing themselves to be cool with the fact that they are getting paid so others don’t matter. Until they run into a problem and the majority white sports media slams them. Then it’s the unpaid minority that ultimately comes to their defense. To add to your point we also have the head coach and gm positions that are dominated by whites. Even in the NBA which is 80% black. And how the hell do Steve Kerr and Danny Ferry qualify for GM positions so fast?

I agree that the frustration of Sankofa is warranted. I don’t need the link you sent me. I’m an educated man. I’ve done my own reading and my own looking into history, knowing that the version that was taught to me in school isn’t the full truth. I’m not black, so I don’t know the pain you’ve suffered personally and I can’t even say I know how you feel because I don’t.

I’m not making excuses for “my people” – read the last words… I hate it too and think it’s bullshit and will keep doing everything in my power to make a difference and a change. What I said wasn’t meant as a “Ho-hum, this is the way it is so be it” but as a “This is the reality of the situation RIGHT NOW.”

Right now, there is no change in that situation. Is it possible? Yes, and Modi is right that it will take the involvement of the dominant group to make this change and I intend to be one of those people.

I don’t dismiss history and I don’t dismiss the present. Why does that always become the viewpoint? Because I state the truth about the way things are now – and you can’t deny that what I said about equal treatment is correct this very instant – means I dismiss history and the present? We’re on the same side, just approaching it from different angles perhaps. I’m not the enemy, I’m an ally.

What frustrated me about Sankofa’s original remarks to me is that I think it immediately puts someone on the defensive when they are met with a fist (or a machete as it was) as opposed to an open hand or someone willing to talk. Granted, over the course of history, having an open hand or a willingness to talk hasn’t helped people of colour, so the fist is warranted.

It’s just not my approach, and maybe part of that is because I am white, I am Canadian and I don’t have the history you, Sankofa and everyone else here does. That being said, it doesn’t mean that because I haven’t lived it I must be in support of it. It’s a false conclusion.

You’re 100% right about the media and coaching / management throughout every sport. I don’t disagree at all… therefore I don’t understand why it is a matter of letting me off the hook. I didn’t hire all these shitty white GM’s and coaches. I didn’t dump Ty Willingham from Notre Dame. I too thought it was a bunch of bullshit.

Danny Ferry shouldn’t be a GM. Neither should Steve Kerr. But don’t just look at the General Management level, look even higher up. There needs to be more representation in OWNERSHIP. Then there would be a better opportunity for change.

Look at the situation your country is in right now – remember, I’m Canadian…

There is a chance that A BLACK MAN WILL BE PRESIDENT! This isn’t a small deal; it’s effing colossal. Jointly, if Obama doesn’t win the Democratic Nomination, it’ll be because he loses to A WOMAN… another major step forward. This really is a time where a great deal of change can occur and I pray that your country makes the most of it.

I went to your site and read your article on Ecko. After participating here at TSF and hearing the views of others, it is my thinking that you might want to change some things.

First you say that Ecko did not make the decision to mark the ball, the fans did. Well, you, I and Ecko know damn well what the outcome of that poll would be. So kill that noise. Second, you say that hip hop is more mainstream. Yes that is true but the culture started in the hood and still exists there today. Ecko has made a lot of money off urban blacks so to add to the media lynching of a black man he’s basically saying F… YOU. Racist? Not caring about a people who help put you on the map and make you rich. DEFINTELY!!!! He could be doing other things like maybe building baseball fields in the inner city. That would give him positive press and I’m sure would also raise his sales.

Now I’m not going to be naive and say that I wasn’t pretty sure the branding would end up as the result, but speaking strictly from a logistics and opportunity standpoint:

Why is it that we knew the result of that vote? Could the legions of Barry supporters not gotten online and made their opinion known?

I agree that Ecko had other options and still does. There are other things he could have chosen to do and still could chose to do, but this, for better or worse is what he chose to do.

Why is his decision with this inanimate object symbolizes him not carrying about the entire urban population? When did Barry Bonds become the shining beacon of all things ‘hood and black?

Barry is in no part urban… to use SportsDiva’s wording Barry came from a place of privilege too. My assumption is that his being black trumps his growing up in the suburbs, getting a free pass as a crap student because he was a great athlete and everything else he had handed to him.

And why does this action, the branding of a baseball, trump anything and everything else Marc Ecko has ever done? What were your thoughts and views of Marc Ecko before the baseball situation?

As for Hip Hop being more mainstream – I’m not trying to insinuate that it doesn’t still live strong in the hood any longer, because by no means is that true.

What I was saying and still do contend is that the essence of hip hop has bled out into the masses and mainstream culture and society. It is no longer the entity that existed in small clusters in the beginning and Marc Ecko isn’t the only one who has made a lot of money off of that industry.

What were your views on Ecko before this Miz? You said in the original you had a pair of his glasses on, so you obviously supported him in some form. And this baseball business was literally months ago, so why the outrage now?

I’m looking for answers and knowledge if you’d like to impart it because I think knowing what the other side of an argument has to say is always worth while and makes you smarter in the long run. Too bad you want to close the door in my face…

Let me school you again. Barry Bonds is black before he is anything else. Given the history of America and it’s physical and media lynchings, Eco’s choice was a bad one. People of color identify with others who are treated unfairly. Since you can’t understand the connection between Bond’s and people from the inner city. Also Barry has spoke openly about the racism his father faced at the hands of fans. I had zero views of Ecko before this happened. We are not talking about others who have made money off of hip hop, we are talking about Ecko.

All I’m saying is that hip hop is no longer the small, self-contained entity it once was. Yes, the part of it that has bled into the mainstream is a bastardized version of the original in many ways, but that bleeding into the mainstream also put a lot of capital in the pockets of many people. And yes, I know that this includes a great deal of rich white men becoming richer white men and “using black culture” to make money. But some good has come out of it for the hip hop community and it’s people right?

I got Pats all day! Though admittedly, I’m not rooting for either team. And I’m making green beans, smothered steak and rice and baked sweet potatoes. LOL

Hip-Hop has gone the way of many musical genres and many movements, trends etc…of course it’s going to be commodified and sold across the globe in this America, in this day and age…the thing is, that’s not the end of it, it’s being used as a scapegoat for everything under the sun because it allows people to be reactive, dismissive of the bigger picture, dismissive of history as well as the nuances and exhibit ‘binary thinking’. It’s a good lazy way to get out of asking why the f*** some things are they way they are. It makes folks uncomfortable, it’s much easier to just blame it on T.I., Vick, Snoop, A.I. and the like.

Of course some good comes of hip-hops prominance regardless of the bipolar attempts to destroy-while-sustaining it (ie. while activists and the Bill O’s of the world use mass aversion and misperception of it to boost their ratings, corporate heads use it to boost their ratings too – making certain folks richer while the dynamics remain the same) The War on Drugs could SO easily be the War on Hip-Hop…creating jobs for people based on tearing down a false enemy.

So while the argument advances that Hip-Hop, even this corporate-rape Hip-Hop feeds so many people and I feel that aspect all day…indeed, there is nothing more important than feeding people…there still is a larger picture that remains marginalized by this stupid argument. Folks keep arguing about the ridiculous stuff to keep from focusing on the real stuff.

I have to admit, I am always intrigued by views coming from beyond the States.

I agree that Hip Hop gets a raw deal, taking the blame for many things. Like Oprah having a hip hip panel last year about Don Imus’ comments… Hip Hop didn’t have anything to do with Don effing Imus; he’s just a redneck hick to begin with. And don’t get me started on David Stern’s Dress Code either… again, BULLSHIT!

In conjunction with that, as with all media, too much attention is paid to the negative aspects of Hip Hop. We hear instantly about the T.I. situation and who stabbed who at the what awards show and on and on and on without ever mentioning the positives that the music and the culture have brought into the world. But that goes for almost everything nowadays anyway…

As for me, I’m riding with The Champs, but unfortunately, I won’t be watching… things to take care of up here North of the Border. No quality homecooked either…

Have you ever been pulled over by the cops just because you drive a luxury car? Are you followed around the store when you are shopping? Have you ever been told you may not make a team or club because you are black and they have never had a black person before? Do you have trouble getting a cab? Have you ever been treated in an unwelcome fashion when attending an event when the majority of the people in attendance are of a different race? Has your child ever been treated coldly in school just just because they are white? have you ever been treated different in the work place because you are white? These are just some of the examples of what people of color go through every day. To answer your question….When you are black race always matters!!!! The man ecko is choosing to help bury is black. He’s made lots of money off black people. When we see another black person being treated unfairly, it bothers us. Barry has been treated unfairly. He did not create steroids and was not the first person to do them–if in fact he did. Many white players have used steroids. Ecko is a designer, he needs to stick to the script and shut the f… up! I thought I was making progress with you, but it seems we’ve had a major setback.

To answer some of your questions – No, I haven’t suffered any of the indignities you and every other person of color has suffered. I have had my share, but I’m sure they pale in comparison to your list above, though being the pasty white kid with a love for hip hop who hangs out with the hip hop crowd wasn’t always the favorable position.

It’s kind of reminiscent to the way I’m feeling right now…

My question wasn’t about Bonds specifically, but the situation in general: Where is the line, if there is one at all, that is what I wonder?

Spencer, I don’t think there is a line nor a need to draw a one. In addition, there is no need to value right or wrong versus the race angle. It’s more important to understand the reality you’re dealing with (taking into account, history, physics, the modern day construct etc.). if you approach an issue with a genuine need to understand the whole of it, if you are willing to listen and risk paradigm shifts, if you can suspend the thinking that most have been beholden to (hard stuff) for a minute in order to let a new reality sink in, absorb it emotionally and intellectually then it’ll become an easy thing.

“It’s kind of reminiscent to the way I’m feeling right now…”

I had a talk with a young white male who was interning at the radio station I work at in Atlanta and he was discussing attending the ‘big summer concert’ tha the major urban station puts on annually. Invariably we got to the demographics and while I understood his feelings, they were funny to me. He was so proud of his ability to exist in a sphere where he was the other, while many people of color in America (many industrialized nations with a white/non-white dynamic) especially have to deal with that on the daily. It was quaint for him, and I understood, but it can be a rule of power for us.

A business mentor used to always remind me that in those settings, it was likely that we’d be noticed as soon as we enterered the room. Hmmm, what of that power??? 🙂

“A business mentor used to always remind me that in those settings, it was likely that we’d be noticed as soon as we entered the room. Hmmm, what of that power??? :)”

Diva – yes, there is a certain amount of attention always on the “one that doesn’t fit” but it isn’t always wanted or positive attention.

I never wanted to be the one that didn’t bellow / fit the mold – I wanted to be accepted as part of the group. Unfortunately, my skin color dictated that I was the easy one to notice. Better yet is that it means I got it from both sides…

Those within the group who didn’t feel I belonged challenged my presence, while those outside questioned why I was there in the first place. It was never quaint, but it was and is who I am. And that doesn’t even take into account my bullshit old man who had many opinions about my love of hip hop, my “United Nations Approach to Friends” as he called it and my insistence on being accepting of everyone for who they are…

I agree that many people of color exist in the same situation I did for the majority of their lives and it isn’t quaint and novel. It’s real life and it’s hard and it’s bullshit and it sucks and much much more.

I also think that the approaching of an issue with a genuine interest in understanding it as you so eloquently put it does in fact go both ways. Not that people of color have to understand where all white people are coming from, but understanding that there are those of us, maybe only a small segment, but a segment nonetheless, who are willing to listen and talk and learn and comprehend and help make a difference in any way we can.

That is where my question of skin color over all else stems from. I was immediately wrong and racist and dismissed and smashed as Mizzo said because I was a white boy with an opposing view on one issue. I don’t believe that skin color trumps all else. Maybe that is a perspective I am afforded as a member of a racial majority…

And Mizzo – this is real life shit too. It’s gotten way beyond Marc Ecko and a baseball, at least in my eyes it has and I am glad to be a part of it.

I gotcha Spencer, and appreciate your vantage point as one who isn’t going continuing dismiss what we bring to the table. I just hope you understand that we are burdened with having to ‘keep bringing it to the table’ while others can simply parrot bullsh** and allow that to define their world.

As for the Reid piece, I was already on that folk…….and this is all real at some level, true.

SD,
I’m listening to the post game on 790…….they’re fussing about the lack of people at the game….sounds like only about 40k at best! LOLOL! They don’t even care that the Falcons beat a team that probably won’t win another game this year anyway.

If anyone hasn’t seen ’em and is interested, Nick The Greek at Home Run Derby has written a post suggesting it’s Bonds and not Ekko & the HOF who should be boycotted. He specifically mentions/addresses our B&C posts, this post & its many comments:

[…] Response to my response to Home Run Derby’s response to our first boycott pieces and one on The Starting Five. (When I say it like that it might sound a little silly, but it’s important stuff.Â […]