Far more important than wins and losses, Michigan needs an identity. Will that come from new offensive coordinator Doug Nussmeier? Will that come from a young and raw but talented offensive line? Or will that come from the dynamic athletes on this team like Gardner, Jabrill Peppers and Devin Funchess?

And as long as we’re setting the parameters for Michigan in 2014, it’s time to put to rest the name Rich Rodriguez. He was the wrong coach for Michigan, we can all agree on that. But it’s been over three years since he coached a game and that was four recruiting classes ago. You can blame your predecessor for only so long, and then it’s time to focus the blame on yourself. Nobody in the program has criticized what Rodriguez left behind. And they did go 11-2 in 2011 largely using Rodriguez recruited players. But there are many in the fan base that want to give Hoke a pass only because of what he inherited. That was fine in year one and year two. It starts to get iffy in year three. And it’s downright stale in year four.

Go Blue!!

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BigHouseFootball

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 3:09 PM

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Find an identity and the wins will pile up.

And I absolutely disagree about RR. we still felt the affects of him and his recruiting last year, and just take a look at this year's senior class, 12 players!! In my book Hoke got a free pass for the first three years bc our recruiting numbers were do skewed by RR. now, however, is year 4 and Hoke's guys are juniors and down. I expect a much stabler Michigan team now.

Michigan Alum Class of 2008

jsj_297

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 3:24 PM

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I thought we were powerhouse again?

It was an impressive achievement, of course, and a human achievement by the members of the IBM team, but Deep Blue was only intelligent the way your programmable alarm clock is intelligent.. -Kasparov

Edub4Blue

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 3:33 PM

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I call BS. Win total absolutely is as if not more important. Just win baby!

GO BLUE!

Maize927

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 3:55 PM

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BigHouseFootball

Find an identity and the wins will pile up.

And I absolutely disagree about RR. we still felt the affects of him and his recruiting last year, and just take a look at this year's senior class, 12 players!! In my book Hoke got a free pass for the first three years bc our recruiting numbers were do skewed by RR. now, however, is year 4 and Hoke's guys are juniors and down. I expect a much stabler Michigan team now.

If you want to throw blame around, at least be consistent. Can't blame RR for Hoke's 3 years but absolve Carr from having anything to do with RR's 3 years.

<message edited by Maize927 on Wednesday, August 06, 2014 4:37 PM>

UMWolverine5

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 4:02 PM

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Win total is absolutely important. If we only win seven games again, nobody is going to say, "Well at least we ran the ball well this year and played better 3rd down defense!"

zjgm02

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 4:32 PM

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Certainly reads like a piece written with the complete approval of the AD's PR department.

Nothing novel about it.

We got our guy.

WarrenWolverine

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 4:45 PM

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Wait! BHF blaming recruiting? The roster being depleted?

Carr left RRod 1 returning starter on the offense! 1!

Stop blaming just RRod all the time. Ya Hoke is out recruiting him and we don't always get blown out when we lose, but more than half of our recruits have shown no progress whatsoever. At least RRod showed progression.

Maize927

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 4:56 PM

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WarrenWolverine

Wait! BHF blaming recruiting? The roster being depleted?

Carr left RRod 1 returning starter on the offense! 1!

Stop blaming just RRod all the time. Ya Hoke is out recruiting him and we don't always get blown out when we lose, but more than half of our recruits have shown no progress whatsoever. At least RRod showed progression.

1 full time starter....3 that had starting experience. Steve Schilling, Carson Butler, and Greg Mathews. Only Schilling is really worth noting.

Like I said though, my issue is consistency with BHF. This is a direct quote from BHF before RR even finished his 2nd season here....."Stop blaming Carr. It's getting really old and just plain untrue. The Man's worst season was 7 wins. RR can't even get to Carr's worst. Carr went 20-6 his last two years and is now two years removed. This is ALL on RR."

jsj_297

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 5:52 PM

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^^^ uh ohhhh.....bhf is going to have a stroke. Lol

It was an impressive achievement, of course, and a human achievement by the members of the IBM team, but Deep Blue was only intelligent the way your programmable alarm clock is intelligent.. -Kasparov

MichFan4Life

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 7:40 PM

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What a croc!! The win total is the only f**king thing that matters.

"Only the good ones come to Michigan" -Dennis Franklin

wolverinefanalways

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 9:06 PM

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I blame Shawn Crable for hitting Troy Smifh late on 4th and long for an automatic first down when we had that game won.

LETS GET BACK TO WINNING

Maize927

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 9:31 PM

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wolverinefanalways

I blame Shawn Crable for hitting Troy Smifh late on 4th and long for an automatic first down when we had that game won.

Except we didn't have the game won, we were trailing at the time it happened. All that play did was seal the win for pOSU.

wolverinefanalways

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 9:38 PM

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I could of sworn we where up . I have to hunt that video down now.

LETS GET BACK TO WINNING

Maize927

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 9:44 PM

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wolverinefanalways

I could of sworn we where up . I have to hunt that video down now.

jsj_297

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 9:46 PM

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and you guys got on me for my App st fg GIF?? wow

It was an impressive achievement, of course, and a human achievement by the members of the IBM team, but Deep Blue was only intelligent the way your programmable alarm clock is intelligent.. -Kasparov

Maize927

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 9:49 PM

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I just had to clarify that we were trailing when the Crable hit happened. Also, with mine you have to hit play on it and it is only in 1 post, it isn't on a continuous loop every other post.

BigHouseFootball

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 9:58 PM

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RR ran off his share of players, a ton left early for the draft because they didnt want to be forced to play a system they didnt fit, and RR refused to adapt to his players, then recruited a lot players who, lets face it, shouldn't have been playing for Michigan.

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Maize927

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 10:18 PM

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I can't even take you serious when you use the words "ran off".

Players leaving early (even if that was the real reason) would be Martin's fault, not RR's

Adapt to his players is a joke. 2008 had nothing to do with the zone read as everyone makes it seem. People act like Threet and Sheridan running zone read was the problem, it wasn't. Their passing was ATTROCIOUS.

It is completely RR's fault for the 2010 class.....but it apparently his fault for the 2005 class flaming out just as hard.

So this seems to be how things play out in your head, in 2011....RR gets zero credit, but Hoke/Mattison and Carr do In 2012 and 2013 it is RR's fault (and I will be fair to you, you may blame Borges a little) but Hoke gets no blame.

Do you seriously understand how nuts you sound?

jsj_297

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 10:24 PM

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BHF's ultimate fantasy coaching staff

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BigHouseFootball

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 10:26 PM

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No, I just have enough brains to realize how college sports work, and thankfully Brandon does as well. He has said over and over again how hoke has had to build things here, and he constantly references the state of the program when Hoke walked in here. He fully understands the load of crap Hoke walked into and understands Hoke had to build the program from the ground up, and you can't do that in 2 years.

Now Hoke finally has upperclassmen who have talent and can play in the Big Ten. This is finally the year we can see what Hoke can do.

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jsj_297

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 10:30 PM

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So under that theory, where does RR's dismissal after 3 years fit in?

not saying he did/didnt deserve it, just doesnt fit your mold.

It was an impressive achievement, of course, and a human achievement by the members of the IBM team, but Deep Blue was only intelligent the way your programmable alarm clock is intelligent.. -Kasparov

Maize927

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 10:32 PM

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BigHouseFootball

No, I just have enough brains to realize how college sports work, and thankfully Brandon does as well. He has said over and over again how hoke has had to build things here, and he constantly references the state of the program when Hoke walked in here. He fully understands the load of crap Hoke walked into and understands Hoke had to build the program from the ground up, and you can't do that in 2 years.

Now Hoke finally has upperclassmen who have talent and can play in the Big Ten. This is finally the year we can see what Hoke can do.

And RR NEVER had upperclassmen. Again, everything you blame RR for going on in Hoke's tenure you can blame Carr for during RR's years.

I wish there were some psyche students reading this board because you are a textbook lesson on cognitive dissonance

BigHouseFootball

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 10:38 PM

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And whose fault was that? Oh that's right, RR.

You don't come to Michigan and win 3 games, then follow that up with 5 and get more time to fix the problem YOU created.

I'm not having this argument again. RR blew, got fired because he wouldn't adapt to any one and now he is where he should be-at a second tier program. RR created his own mess and made things worse by his attitude, and that's the last I'm talking about it in this thread.

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Maize927

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Wednesday, August 06, 2014 10:44 PM

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Yeah sure, run away. It is what you did every time I asked you when RR was coaching if you were rooting for Michigan to win even if it meant saving his job.

And again. You can't blame RR for Hoke not having upperclassmen in year 3 and then completely absolve Carr from blame for RR not having upperclassmen in any year he was here because all 3 seasons he had to deal with what Hoke did in 2013.

Edub4Blue

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Thursday, August 07, 2014 8:22 AM

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Like sands through the hour glass so are the days of our lives......

Both RR and Hoke walked into a coaches world of sh!t, we all know it and it is all LCs fault. His recruiting towards the end was atrocious and he did RR no favors. He was the one who destroyed what most folks love about Michigan football....championship football. RR tried to revive the program in his own way and it failed so he was fired. Hoke is trying to restore the program to what is his (and most people's) vision of what Michigan football is all about and up to this point the jury is still out. This year is put up or shut up time for Hoke and company. Win now because I no longer care if "this is Michigan fergodsakes" or if my coach "would have walked to the University of Michigan" all I care about right here and right now is wins. Beat ND, beat State and beat Ohio. All will be right in the Michigan world and hopefully Maize and BHF can hug, sing kumbaya, and have a beer together in harmony. Happy Thursday!

GO BLUE!

WolvyMike

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Thursday, August 07, 2014 8:47 AM

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People seem to forget that RR wins were increasing each year while he was rebuilding. Hokes wins seem to be decreasing. It's not a good trend. Simply put, RR should have gotten another year with a new defensive coordinator, but he didn't. Hoke gets this season with a new offensive coordinator. He has no excuses anymore. We aren't young, we are deep at every position. He's a great recruiter, no show us you can coach these recruits.

MichFan4Life

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Thursday, August 07, 2014 8:52 AM

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Maize927

wolverinefanalways

I blame Shawn Crable for hitting Troy Smifh late on 4th and long for an automatic first down when we had that game won.

Except we didn't have the game won, we were trailing at the time it happened. All that play did was seal the win for pOSU.

Crable has unfairly been given the blame for the loss in 06. Michigan fans have terrible memories. Not only was Michigan trailing at the time of the Crable hit, but in the previous offensive series, the offense went 3 and out with good field position.

For as many points as we score in that game, we left a ton of points on the board.

"Only the good ones come to Michigan" -Dennis Franklin

McMurtry1

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Thursday, August 07, 2014 11:52 AM

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WolvyMike

People seem to forget that RR wins were increasing each year while he was rebuilding. Hokes wins seem to be decreasing. It's not a good trend. Simply put, RR should have gotten another year with a new defensive coordinator, but he didn't. Hoke gets this season with a new offensive coordinator. He has no excuses anymore. We aren't young, we are deep at every position. He's a great recruiter, no show us you can coach these recruits.

No, he shouldn't have. Rich Rod was a trainwreck and got what he deserved. Hoke sucks and his head should be on the chopping block too (along with Brandon's...) unless we win 10 games this year.

Wolverine in Iowa

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Thursday, August 07, 2014 3:11 PM

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McMurtry1

WolvyMike

People seem to forget that RR wins were increasing each year while he was rebuilding. Hokes wins seem to be decreasing. It's not a good trend. Simply put, RR should have gotten another year with a new defensive coordinator, but he didn't. Hoke gets this season with a new offensive coordinator. He has no excuses anymore. We aren't young, we are deep at every position. He's a great recruiter, no show us you can coach these recruits.

No, he shouldn't have. Rich Rod was a trainwreck and got what he deserved. Hoke sucks and his head should be on the chopping block too (along with Brandon's...) unless we win 10 games this year.

I don't know about "got what he deserved."

The way that whole 3 yrs went made me lose respect for the institution that is UofM and especially the fans. It was a national embarrassment and RR was only a part of that embarrassment. Being the most public of the figures he got the bulk of it, but did he deserve that? Probably not.

WolvyMike

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Thursday, August 07, 2014 4:01 PM

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yes. RR didn't deserve the way it all went down. Had they fired him after the osu game and move on instead of letting him cling to hope and coach against MSU, it would have gone over a lot better. That was just embarrassing.

ScottsdaleBlue

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Thursday, August 07, 2014 8:20 PM

“Our young guys needed to get experience and grow up,” Brandon said. “We’re shifting from one style of play to another style of play. That transition everybody wants it to be quick and easy. It’s not. You can look at other programs around the country. It’s typical when you have a pipeline filled with one type of recruit and you move to a very different model and philosophy. There’s been some shakeout in the coaching staff, (replacing offensive coordinator Al Borges with Doug Nussmeier), we’ve had a little bit of that. We reorganized a bit, we brought in some new talent. This is all a part of putting the pieces in place. But I really like where our recruiting pipeline is, I really like where this team is coming together. I think pour coaching staff right now is as cohesive and strong as it’s been and I’m, really looking forward to a great season.”

Brandon said this today on the radio when asked about his belief in Hoke.

Go Blue!!

Ohio St.'s actions are not unlike their lower intestine: stinky and loaded with danger.

wolverinefanalways

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Friday, August 08, 2014 7:37 AM

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Do you think that Hoke will win a NC faster than RR?

LETS GET BACK TO WINNING

MichFan4Life

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Friday, August 08, 2014 8:38 AM

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Always nice to still be in pissing matching over coaches that have been gone for 4 years. Like they actually matter today. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Hoke will rise or fall on his own merit and he has no excuses this year, even though Brandon and the staff themselves are trying to build them in already. This concept that finding an identity is the most important thing for this year is insulting. The honeymoon is over, if the program hasn't found an identity by year 4 that falls squarely back on the shoulders of Brady Hoke and Co.

"Only the good ones come to Michigan" -Dennis Franklin

ScottsdaleBlue

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Friday, August 08, 2014 9:23 AM

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15-11 in the last 2 seasons and getting embarrassed by Kansas State 31-14 in the Buffalo Wild Wings Bowl is not what Michigan fans expect. I don't care what Brandon says now, Hoke's job will be in serious jeopardy if things don't improve.

Go Blue!!

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TK23Blue

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Friday, August 08, 2014 9:26 AM

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MichFan4Life

Always nice to still be in pissing matching over coaches that have been gone for 4 years. Like they actually matter today. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Hoke will rise or fall on his own merit and he has no excuses this year, even though Brandon and the staff themselves are trying to build them in already. This concept that finding an identity is the most important thing for this year is insulting. The honeymoon is over, if the program hasn't found an identity by year 4 that falls squarely back on the shoulders of Brady Hoke and Co.

THIS! Finding an identity?? WTF does that even mean? The only "identity" anybody gives a toss about in big time sports is winner or loser.

jsj_297

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Friday, August 08, 2014 10:57 AM

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15-11....... it wasn't for sheer dumb luck Hoke would be 13-13 with 2 embarrassing losses.

It was an impressive achievement, of course, and a human achievement by the members of the IBM team, but Deep Blue was only intelligent the way your programmable alarm clock is intelligent.. -Kasparov

ScottsdaleBlue

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Friday, August 08, 2014 11:33 AM

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No chance we have an identity by the end of the season….not with DG at the helm, we will still be in the middle of a pro style and QB threatening to scramble/run during jail breaks.

Go Blue!!

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UMWolverine5

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Friday, August 08, 2014 11:54 AM

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ScottsdaleBlue

No chance we have an identity by the end of the season….not with DG at the helm, we will still be in the middle of a pro style and QB threatening to scramble/run during jail breaks.

Go Blue!!

IMO, one of the biggest hindering factors of offensively development. Been recruiting for all pro-style and our last two QBs have been all spread. Really don't think that gets talked about enough.

Maize927

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Re:Win total is not as important as identity for Brady Hoke, Michigan
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Friday, August 08, 2014 12:18 PM

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I wouldn't go that far, Russell Bellomy is a pro style QB and has done nothing to show he was ready to take the reins after Denard graduated.