Originally Posted By porcher:Are the rumors true ? is Glock making one to compete with the Springfield XD ? I will never buy an XD, but would really like a 21 with a smaller grip without doing any custom work.

curios as to whyyou woudnt buy an xd?

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Originally Posted By porcher:Are the rumors true ? is Glock making one to compete with the Springfield XD ? I will never buy an XD, but would really like a 21 with a smaller grip without doing any custom work.

curios as to whyyou woudnt buy an xd?

same question i asked myself...then i saw that the XD in pieces--it had over a dozen more pieces than the Glock

Originally Posted By porcher:Are the rumors true ? is Glock making one to compete with the Springfield XD ? I will never buy an XD, but would really like a 21 with a smaller grip without doing any custom work.

curios as to whyyou woudnt buy an xd?

First off, Springfield copied the Glock in so many ways. I hate when so many companies out there have copied the Glock, like Smith & Wesson with the M&P. Why can't these people just admit that Glock kicks thir ass up and down the street hands down ? I like companies like Sig and HK. Their handgun Line has their own look. Glock, poorly imitated but never duplicated.

XD is not a Springfield design. It is a Croatian pistol. Was originally called the HS2000, or something like that. I don't know if the newer ones do, but the older XDs at least, were marked "made in Croatia" on the slides.

I do agree that Glock is tops though.

Popped my head into the Beretta forum here lately because I bought one just to accustom myself to it...makes me sick. I hate the pistol, and reading all the people talking about how great it is, as if it were some mythical creature, makes my skin crawl. At least we know the truth.

They are still being made in Croatia, and there are no plans to move that here. And the XD 45acp has the same mag capacity as the G21 (13+1). It is a slight bit smaller in the grip are just because it uses a thin walled magazine (stainless) and it doesnt have nearly the size of the back bulge that the G21 has. I fired the new XD 45acp a couple weekends ago and it was quite enjoyable, I like the feel better than the G21. But it is more complicated and in my opinion then less reliable. But it isnt a "slim line" by any means like the G36 because it is double stacked too. That was my point. I get distracted easily.

Springfield wanted a polymer framed weapon and decided to buy the HS2000 (Made in Croatia) and stamped their name on the slide -- and jacked the price up accordingly.The XD is Springfield's answer to all the other big manufacturers polymer framed weapons.(IMHO - They are crude)

Glock decided rather than make a slim full size 45 ACP to produce the Glock family of 45 GAP pistols. (Most European gun makers only make 45ACP for the demand of the US market) Glockdid not listen to the recomendations of it's customers - can you imagine the sales of a G36 in a FULL size frame? They would not be able to keep them on the shelf at the gunshops.

In my opinion Glock totally screwed the pooch with the intro of the GAP round. You can't re-invent the wheel and the 45 ACP round has been around now going on 100 years and has the performance/history to go with it. Through two World Wars, Korea, Vietnam and countless other US military actions. US military planners are now looking to go back to the 45ACP after the poor performance of the 9mm FMJ in issue Berettas in the Middle East.

Originally Posted By CopM4:Springfield wanted a polymer framed weapon and decided to buy the HS2000 (Made in Croatia) and stamped their name on the slide -- and jacked the price up accordingly.The XD is Springfield's answer to all the other big manufacturers polymer framed weapons.(IMHO - They are crude)

Glock decided rather than make a slim full size 45 ACP to produce the Glock family of 45 GAP pistols. (Most European gun makers only make 45ACP for the demand of the US market) Glockdid not listen to the recomendations of it's customers - can you imagine the sales of a G36 in a FULL size frame? They would not be able to keep them on the shelf at the gunshops.

In my opinion Glock totally screwed the pooch with the intro of the GAP round. You can't re-invent the wheel and the 45 ACP round has been around now going on 100 years and has the performance/history to go with it. Through two World Wars, Korea, Vietnam and countless other US military actions. US military planners are now looking to go back to the 45ACP after the poor performance of the 9mm FMJ in issue Berettas in the Middle East.

Is the U.S. Military looking at Glock as a replacement for the Shitty Berettas ? I carried the Beretta in the Marine Corps and wish I had a 45 ACP Glock.

Originally Posted By CopM4:Springfield wanted a polymer framed weapon and decided to buy the HS2000 (Made in Croatia) and stamped their name on the slide -- and jacked the price up accordingly.The XD is Springfield's answer to all the other big manufacturers polymer framed weapons.(IMHO - They are crude)

Glock decided rather than make a slim full size 45 ACP to produce the Glock family of 45 GAP pistols. (Most European gun makers only make 45ACP for the demand of the US market) Glockdid not listen to the recomendations of it's customers - can you imagine the sales of a G36 in a FULL size frame? They would not be able to keep them on the shelf at the gunshops.

In my opinion Glock totally screwed the pooch with the intro of the GAP round. You can't re-invent the wheel and the 45 ACP round has been around now going on 100 years and has the performance/history to go with it. Through two World Wars, Korea, Vietnam and countless other US military actions. US military planners are now looking to go back to the 45ACP after the poor performance of the 9mm FMJ in issue Berettas in the Middle East.

Is the U.S. Military looking at Glock as a replacement for the Shitty Berettas ? I carried the Beretta in the Marine Corps and wish I had a 45 ACP Glock.

No.

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.308- because people have a strange tendency to get behind things when you start shooting at them.

I just purchased a new 21 today.. I allready have the 20 that feels a little on the chunky side but when shooting it gets slimmer for some reason..majical...I have been contemplating about sending both to Robar for the grip reduction..I'm going to put in more range time with both but Robar is an option,, and you don't have to SETTLE for a lesser, slimmer,,unproven, copy cat just to hold 13 45's in your hand......

My guess on the new issue pistols will be something along a SIG P220 style weapon.I think (my opinion) the military will never go back to the 1911 style weapon - for GI Issue...Special Units aside use them now.

This whole replacement action of 9mm FMJ goes back to Desert Storm when it was discovered that the Beretta mags were totally boogered up.

The rounds in a Beretta mag rotate as they are pushed up in the mag well. Trouble was the fine sand/grit totally jamming the mags.

Now I know this will P/O the 9mm proponents out there (I love to shoot 9mm) But the 9mm FMJ rounds performance is totally sub-par.

I liked the Glock 19 and 34 before I switched to the Kimber. I have small hands so the wide grip of Glock was a no-no. I can almost live with safe-action trigger with #3.5 connector but grip is just too wide for me.

But if Glock has a plan to make a slim line, full size 45 ACP I will be all over it.

Originally Posted By CopM4:Now I know this will P/O the 9mm proponents out there (I love to shoot 9mm) But the 9mm FMJ rounds performance is totally sub-par.

All FMJ handgun ammunition is deficient. I don't think the answer is a larger caliber, I think the answer is a practical and well reasoned revision of the Geneva Convention, as the "rules" are severly antiquated.... After all that is done we could begin to issue the troops Winchester RA9T.